# AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!



## LifeInCattleClass

First! Sell-outs all stadiums foreverrrrrr!


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## Saintpat

Sold so many tix to the Christmas show that they had to get rid of the camera side and take the cameras out so they couldn’t televise it!!!


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## imthegame19

Compilation of AEW Statistics For 2019 - PWMania - Wrestling News


Kyle Prescott, who runs the AEW Discord channel, compiled a list of AEW statistics for 2019 and they are as follows: AEW Year One: A Thread (All data is as of 12/30/19) 147 total matches: key: *S-Singles *TT- Tag Team (note tag team numbers include all tag team matches so 2v2, 2v2v2, 3v3, etc.) 3T-




www.pwmania.com





2019 stats for attendance, buys, ratings and views.


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## The Wood

To continue my discussion with imjustagame or whoever that poster is re: AEW's PPV buys. 

Those buys are conflated numbers provided by Dave Meltzer. He combines the international numbers with the domestic ones. AEW seems to get ~60k buys domestically. Over half ECW's PPVs were doing better numbers than that, and by the end they were consistently getting about 99k buys domestically. The idea that they are the hottest thing since WCW is a myth.

And no, those numbers aren't bad. But you're insane if you get data like that back and don't act on it. By data I mean things Meltzer purposely glosses over when talking about their success. For example, Meltzer said that about 40% of the people who ordered All Out were return customers from Double or Nothing. He also said that the number was down for All Out. When you factor that 40% in to the difference between Double or Nothing and All Out's buy-rate, I think the number was something like a 30% retention rate. 

So you can dance about selling a few PPVs. But you have to think about why two-thirds of a paying audience doesn't come back. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like the content. It could just be the pricing of the shows. But it could be content. And when you've got Meltzer talking about their staying power on PPV, you've got to consider that most people who gave Double or Nothing a chance didn't come back, and that Full Gear was their first PPV experience offered to people they were reaching through television. Given a reasonable estimate of a PPV audience for a wrestling product seems to be about 5%, those TV ratings going down aren't a great sign either. With 700k viewers, they're looking at about ~35k buys domestically. If you're looking at splitting that money with Warner and the PPV companies, you're looking at a max of $875k off a show for AEW. Sure, there is also attendance and merchandising, but that's about the cost to put something on. Not sure if Warner covers the production costs of their PPVs or just the TV, but if Warner and PPV are split, which seems to be the case, then you're really looking at $437.5k for Warner at the end of the day, which probably means they're underperforming. 

Call it spin all you want, but we'll see how Revolution does, hey? And then we've got Double or Nothing II, and then we'll have some year-to-year data to look at, and we can see whether or not AEW has grown its audience or not. It'll be very interesting if when the data comes back, it's 35k in 2020 compared to 71k in 2019. The spin will be in making that transformation look good.


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## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Compilation of AEW Statistics For 2019 - PWMania - Wrestling News
> 
> 
> Kyle Prescott, who runs the AEW Discord channel, compiled a list of AEW statistics for 2019 and they are as follows: AEW Year One: A Thread (All data is as of 12/30/19) 147 total matches: key: *S-Singles *TT- Tag Team (note tag team numbers include all tag team matches so 2v2, 2v2v2, 3v3, etc.) 3T-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwmania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2019 stats for attendance, buys, ratings and views.


And that is a new companies’ first year

Amazing


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## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> Compilation of AEW Statistics For 2019 - PWMania - Wrestling News
> 
> 
> Kyle Prescott, who runs the AEW Discord channel, compiled a list of AEW statistics for 2019 and they are as follows: AEW Year One: A Thread (All data is as of 12/30/19) 147 total matches: key: *S-Singles *TT- Tag Team (note tag team numbers include all tag team matches so 2v2, 2v2v2, 3v3, etc.) 3T-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwmania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2019 stats for attendance, buys, ratings and views.


Good to see all the stats. For PPV buys, we need more details as it should be split by domestic/international. As they are different price points and we can really see the increase/decrease going forward.

Also i'm curious about those average overnight DvR figures quoted of 540,000. Who exactly is verifying these figures. We are still to see AEW show up on the DvR charts which should be happening on a regular basis with such numbers. Either way, those numbers mean nothing unless they start watching live or ordering PPVs.

2020 is going to be interest for AEW, that's for sure.


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## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Good to see all the stats. For PPV buys, we need more details as it should be split by domestic/international. As they are different price points and we can really see the increase/decrease going forward.
> 
> *Also i'm curious about those average overnight DvR figures quoted of 540,000. Who exactly is verifying these figures.* We are still to see AEW show up on the DvR charts which should be happening on a regular basis with such numbers. Either way, those numbers mean nothing unless they start watching live or ordering PPVs.
> 
> Ether way 2020 is going to be interest for AEW, thats for sure.


I think you have to pay to have the numbers (the same thing than for the quarters numbers)


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## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> Good to see all the stats. For PPV buys, we need more details as it should be split by domestic/international. As they are different price points and we can really see the increase/decrease going forward.
> 
> Also i'm curious about those average overnight DvR figures quoted of 540,000. Who exactly is verifying these figures. We are still to see AEW show up on the DvR charts which should be happening on a regular basis with such numbers. Either way, those numbers mean nothing unless they start watching live or ordering PPVs.
> 
> Ether way 2020 is going to be interest for AEW, thats for sure.


They did saw up on DVR charts the way of Thanksgiving show. Which was their lowest rating.


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## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> They did saw up on DVR charts the way of Thanksgiving show. Which was their lowest rating.


That would make sense as everyone was watching the baseball game then.

But with an average of 540k, it means they had some weeks with 600-700k DvR based on Meltzers figures. This is over 75% of their average audience so should be showing up. I just wish people like Meltzer would provide links with evidence from real sources for these things. Without it, you have to be sceptical when the show doesn't show up on the official DvR rankings.


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## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> That would make sense as everyone was watching the baseball game then.
> 
> But with an average of 540k, it means they had some weeks with 600-700k DvR based on Meltzers figures. This is over 75% of their average audience so should be showing up. I just wish people like Meltzer would provide links with evidence from real sources for these things. Without it, you have to be sceptical when the show doesn't show up on the official DvR rankings.


They can't provide those links because there not allowed to do it.


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## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> That would make sense as everyone was watching the baseball game then.
> 
> But with an average of 540k, it means they had some weeks with 600-700k DvR based on Meltzers figures. This is over 75% of their average audience so should be showing up. I just wish people like Meltzer would provide links with evidence from real sources for these things. Without it, you have to be sceptical when the show doesn't show up on the official DvR rankings.


No it was the night before Thanksgiving show when they did 650,000 viewers. DVR numbers showed them gain 300,000 viewers on the chart that week. I have a feeling 12/18 show might make list since they only did 683,000 doing much lower then normal total.

But going off that data and not making list other weeks. It would maybe be 150,000 to 250,000 increase most weeks. Which would tell us around million people are still watching AEW every week. So Meltzer must be getting other data then just goes on the charts. Because his numbers suggust 1.2 to 1.5 million are watching every week. My guess it some type online stream stuff that don't get factored in on those charts. But yes I agree I wish he would explain it better.


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## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> No it was the night before Thanksgiving show when they did 650,000 viewers. DVR numbers showed them gain 300,000 viewers on the chart that week. I have a feeling 12/18 show might make list since they only did 683,000 doing much lower then normal total.
> 
> But going off that data and not making list other weeks. It would maybe be 150,000 to 250,000 increase most weeks. Which would tell us around million people are still watching AEW every week. So Meltzer must be getting other data then just goes on the charts. Because his numbers suggust 1.2 to 1.5 million are watching every week. My guess it some type online stream stuff that don't get factored in on those charts. But yes I agree I wish he would explain it better.


Your explanation is more likely what is going on. But if true then those figures are intentionally misleading to make the show seem more popular than it is.

This is why i never believe Meltzer's numbers when it can't be verified by any other sources. As you say, the only week the show was on DvR chart, the increase was only 300k. So its virtually impossible for the average DvR figure to be 540k, if the show never showed up any other week.

This is all just common sense.


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## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> Good to see all the stats. For PPV buys, we need more details as it should be split by domestic/international. As they are different price points and we can really see the increase/decrease going forward.
> 
> Also i'm curious about those average overnight DvR figures quoted of 540,000. Who exactly is verifying these figures. We are still to see AEW show up on the DvR charts which should be happening on a regular basis with such numbers. Either way, those numbers mean nothing unless they start watching live or ordering PPVs.
> 
> 2020 is going to be interest for AEW, that's for sure.


I think they are calling it by the wrong name, that would mean most of the audience is watching on DVR instead of live. I think they mean 7 day DVR viewers, not overnight which would be counted in the Live+Same Day DVR ratings. 540k falls in line with what Dave Metzler has been reporting for 7day DVR.


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## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> I think they are calling it by the wrong name, that would mean most of the audience is watching on DVR instead of live. I think they mean 7 day DVR viewers, not overnight which would be counted in the Live+Same Day DVR ratings. 540k falls in line with what Dave Metzler has been reporting for 7day DVR.


Meltzer never said that the DVR numbers were overnight numbers.


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## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> Your explanation is more likely what is going on. But if true then those figures are intentionally misleading to make the show seem more popular than it is.
> 
> This is why i never believe Meltzer's numbers when it can't be verified by any other sources. As you say, the only week the show was on DvR chart, the increase was only 300k. So its virtually impossible for the average DvR figure to be 540k, if the show never showed up any other week.
> 
> This is all just common sense.


not true at all, the charts that show dvr numbers list by raw number and percentage increase, I showed in the old thread that if they are doing what Dave reported then they wouldn't be showing up in the charts because they wouldn't break the threshold in raw numbers or percentage increase for the weeks we have numbers for DVR viewership. They only showed up that thanksgiving week because there wasn't much of anything on that week that was new, and they were only in the 3day chart for percent increase, not the 7-day chart which only does raw total viewers and demo increase. So in 3 days, they gained 300k, and because they were not in the 7 day, that means the final DVR number was 301k-771k, which was the lowest number on the chart. Which is what that 549K is referencing. I don't always agree with his analysis of the numbers, but I don't see any reason to think these numbers are made up by Dave. Why aren't people questioning the quarter-hour numbers, those are not public at all.


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## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer never said that the DVR numbers were overnight numbers.


I'm referring to the link above, "AEW Dynamite has an average of *540,000 DVR overnight viewers". If that is overnight, that means its same-day and counted in the live+SD ratings, which would mean most weeks half the people are not watching it live but later that night on DVR. I think they are referring to 7-day DVR numbers since it aligns with what Dave is reporting which is likely where they got that number.


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## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> I'm referring to the link above, "AEW Dynamite has an average of *540,000 DVR overnight viewers". If that is overnight, that means its same-day and counted in the live+SD ratings, which would mean most weeks half the people are not watching it live but later that night on DVR. I think they are referring to 7-day DVR numbers since it aligns with what Dave is reporting which is likely where they got that number.


I know that you're referring to that link 

But Meltzer never said "overnight" viewers when he talked about the DVR numbers on his podcasts.


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## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> not true at all, the charts that show dvr numbers list by raw number and percentage increase, I showed in the old thread that if they are doing what Dave reported then they wouldn't be showing up in the charts because they wouldn't break the threshold in raw numbers or percentage increase for the weeks we have numbers for DVR viewership. They only showed up that thanksgiving week because there wasn't much of anything on that week that was new, and they were only in the 3day chart for percent increase, not the 7-day chart which only does raw total viewers and demo increase. So in 3 days, they gained 300k, and because they were not in the 7 day, that means the final DVR number was 301k-771k, which was the lowest number on the chart. Which is what that 549K is referencing. I don't always agree with his analysis of the numbers, but I don't see any reason to think these numbers are made up by Dave. *Why aren't people questioning the quarter-hour numbers, those are not public at all. *


Just comes down to it feeling really convenient that he says that AEW and NXT do so well on DVR yet AEW has only made one appearance on the DVR ratings rankings. It's easier to just trust it when there's no evidence released to dispute him with.


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## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> I know that you're referring to that link
> 
> But Meltzer never said "overnight" viewers when he talked about the DVR numbers on his podcasts.


ok, i never said he did


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## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> ok, i never said he did


I never say you did, i was just supporting you take on the DVR numbers.


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## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Just comes down to it feeling really convenient that he says that AEW and NXT do so well on DVR yet AEW has only made one appearance on the DVR ratings rankings. It's easier to just trust it when there's no evidence released to dispute him with.


And I think we had a good discussion about that in the old thread, that's really the sticking point, him saying its one of the best performing shows on cable is probably overstated, but with that kind of stuff, it is a matter of opinion. These charts are for cable and broadcast, maybe they do well compared to cable, maybe his definition of doing well would be different from me and you. that's why I am not defending his opinions, just the numbers, and if you look at the numbers then they wouldn't show up in these charts according to what he is reporting.


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## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> And I think we had a good discussion about that in the old thread, that's really the sticking point, him saying its one of the best performing shows on cable is probably overstated, but with that kind of stuff, it is a matter of opinion. These charts are for cable and broadcast, maybe they do well compared to cable, maybe his definition of doing well would be different from me and you. that's why I am not defending his opinions, just the numbers, and if you look at the numbers then they wouldn't show up in these charts according to what he is reporting.


Yeah we did, I just think that's always going to be a sticking point because of the weirdness of the situation.


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## rbl85

I think Meltzer says the DVR numbers are big in comparison with the other wrestling shows.


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## Saintpat

Sold so many tix to the Christmas show that they had to get rid of the camera side and take the cameras out so they couldn’t televise it!


The Wood said:


> To continue my discussion with imjustagame or whoever that poster is re: AEW's PPV buys.
> 
> Those buys are conflated numbers provided by Dave Meltzer. He combines the international numbers with the domestic ones. AEW seems to get ~60k buys domestically. Over half ECW's PPVs were doing better numbers than that, and by the end they were consistently getting about 99k buys domestically. The idea that they are the hottest thing since WCW is a myth.
> 
> And no, those numbers aren't bad. But you're insane if you get data like that back and don't act on it. By data I mean things Meltzer purposely glosses over when talking about their success. For example, Meltzer said that about 40% of the people who ordered All Out were return customers from Double or Nothing. He also said that the number was down for All Out. When you factor that 40% in to the difference between Double or Nothing and All Out's buy-rate, I think the number was something like a 30% retention rate.
> 
> So you can dance about selling a few PPVs. But you have to think about why two-thirds of a paying audience doesn't come back. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like the content. It could just be the pricing of the shows. But it could be content. And when you've got Meltzer talking about their staying power on PPV, you've got to consider that most people who gave Double or Nothing a chance didn't come back, and that Full Gear was their first PPV experience offered to people they were reaching through television. Given a reasonable estimate of a PPV audience for a wrestling product seems to be about 5%, those TV ratings going down aren't a great sign either. With 700k viewers, they're looking at about ~35k buys domestically. If you're looking at splitting that money with Warner and the PPV companies, you're looking at a max of $875k off a show for AEW. Sure, there is also attendance and merchandising, but that's about the cost to put something on. Not sure if Warner covers the production costs of their PPVs or just the TV, but if Warner and PPV are split, which seems to be the case, then you're really looking at $437.5k for Warner at the end of the day, which probably means they're underperforming.
> 
> Call it spin all you want, but we'll see how Revolution does, hey? And then we've got Double or Nothing II, and then we'll have some year-to-year data to look at, and we can see whether or not AEW has grown its audience or not. It'll be very interesting if when the data comes back, it's 35k in 2020 compared to 71k in 2019. The spin will be in making that transformation look good.


To me the biggest flaw in the AEW model is being PPV-reliant. It’s a dying model for boxing, wrestling, MMA ... you name it. Maybe even a dead model unless you’ve got a major event like Mayweather-McGregor.

I can’t buy that a select group of wrestling fans, all of whom support AEW, happen to be the only people in the U.S. (or world) who prefer paying $50 four times a year to get their product that way. The numbers will surely only go down over time.


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## rbl85

Saintpat said:


> *Sold so many tix to the Christmas show that they had to get rid of the camera side and take the cameras out so they couldn’t televise it!*
> 
> 
> To me the biggest flaw in the AEW model is being PPV-reliant. It’s a dying model for boxing, wrestling, MMA ... you name it. Maybe even a dead model unless you’ve got a major event like Mayweather-McGregor.
> 
> I can’t buy that a select group of wrestling fans, all of whom support AEW, happen to be the only people in the U.S. (or world) who prefer paying $50 four times a year to get their product that way. The numbers will surely only go down over time.


Since the first 2 shows they never sold the hard cam side.


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## TKO Wrestling

I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats. 

There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:

1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.

As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.

Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.

They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.


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## Saintpat

rbl85 said:


> Since the first 2 shows they never sold the hard cam side.


It was a joke. They weren’t on TV for Christmas.

I was at the Nashville show and there were a few scattered people on the hard cam side and the upper deck (of a fairly small arena) was tarped off.

It was still a hot crowd, but not a large one.

And one thing I noticed (I realize small sample judging by one show but you can see it on TV too) is the live audience as compared to WWE was younger (mostly people in their 20s), a few more females (guys bringing their gfs mostly from the look of it) and NOT diverse ... I’d say way above 90 percent white. I didn’t see a single kid either.

The WWE Raw a month later (in Bridgestone, much larger arena) had a lot more people of color, a lot more families with children, just more representative of the populace. AEW was more like a crowd of gamers who are into NASCAR by their demo.


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## TKO Wrestling

Saintpat said:


> It was a joke. They weren’t on TV for Christmas.
> 
> I was at the Nashville show and there were a few scattered people on the hard cam side and the upper deck (of a fairly small arena) was tarped off.
> 
> It was still a hot crowd, but not a large one.
> 
> And one thing I noticed (I realize small sample judging by one show but you can see it on TV too) is the live audience as compared to WWE was younger (mostly people in their 20s), a few more females (guys bringing their gfs mostly from the look of it) and NOT diverse ... I’d say way above 90 percent white. I didn’t see a single kid either.
> 
> The WWE Raw a month later (in Bridgestone, much larger arena) had a lot more people of color, a lot more families with children, just more representative of the populace. AEW was more like a crowd of gamers who are into NASCAR by their demo.


Ok so wouldn't they have been better off at Allen Arena and it being PACKED? Have you ever seen WWE/TNA/ROH come to Allen Arena?


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## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats.
> 
> There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:
> 
> 1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.
> 
> As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.
> 
> Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.
> 
> They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.


There are doing 5-4k arenas in the coming weeks but they are far from a sell out.


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## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> There are doing 5-4k arenas in the coming weeks but they are far from a sell out.


Wow. I figured it was basically impossible for them to draw that low.


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## imthegame19

TKO Wrestling said:


> Wow. I figured it was basically impossible for them to draw that low.


It's tough selling well on Tuesdays or Wednesday. Smackdown was having this issue when on Tuesdays too.


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## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Wow. I figured it was basically impossible for them to draw that low.


For exemple in Huntsville for the moment the audience is a bit more than 1.5K

Now i think they're not doing a good enough job to promote their shows. I mean if you don't follow them on twitter then most of the time you can't know where they are doing shows.


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## The Wood

It was always a big gamble to run bigger arenas. As the product cooled, so was the perception of you being a hot ticket item when you have to start tarping off, etc. No, I'm not saying that these shows aren't profitable or anything -- I'm merely talking perception and the idea that this thing is going to get bigger with people. It's probably better to sell out whatever arena you are in, because that's what people care about, but you also don't want to scale down your presentation on TV, because it looks like you're receding.

Got a feeling AEW will win in the ratings this week with NXT doing a clip show. If they don't, I think they will start to panic. Not big time -- you'll hear the usual lines about how they don't care about the ratings -- but it will be make a few people gulp if they can't beat a clip show.


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## Jonhern

TKO Wrestling said:


> I just dont understand why they arent running smaller places and filling it up completely. Id rather see them fill a 4k arena like Devlin Fieldhouse in New Orleans vs using basically 1/4th of the Pelicans arena and having empty seats.
> 
> There are a LOT of kickass 3500-5k seat arenas that AEWs crowd is perfect for. 3 stages:
> 
> 1. 3500-5k small arenas, lots of large high schools/small colleges/GLeague arenas.
> 
> As they grow they move to the type arenas that they are running now, lots of 8k colllege type arenas. And once they get to the top then maybe they can run the NBA arenas like WWE does.
> 
> Look at the Nashville show, they drew 4k, why not run Allen Arena to capacity? Just an example.
> 
> They almost did this in Dallas with the show in Garland, filled all but 3 sections, but it looked outstanding on TV. I just dont understand why they dont shorten the entrance/move the Tron closer up and have zero empty sections.


Those smaller arenas might not have the capability to host a national TV show, either to fit the stage and everything needed for production, not to mention having suitable infrastructure to handle the intense electricity needs. It's likely the same as the reason why wwe doesn't run smaller places even with dwindling attendance, the smaller places just can't support a high production show for whatever reason. Some can and they run those places, but I would guess a lot of the smaller places are older and just can't accommodate what these two touring tv shows need to broadcast a live national telecast.


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## PhilThePain

Hi everyone,

I don't know why but I have a feeling that tonight's Dynamite will not only be the highest rated Dynamite of the year, but of the whole decade also.


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## rbl85

PhilThePain said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I don't know why but I have a feeling that tonight's Dynamite will not only be the highest rated Dynamite of the year, but of the whole decade also.


This man have really big balls.


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## TKO Wrestling

Jonhern said:


> Those smaller arenas might not have the capability to host a national TV show, either to fit the stage and everything needed for production, not to mention having suitable infrastructure to handle the intense electricity needs. It's likely the same as the reason why wwe doesn't run smaller places even with dwindling attendance, the smaller places just can't support a high production show for whatever reason. Some can and they run those places, but I would guess a lot of the smaller places are older and just can't accommodate what these two touring tv shows need to broadcast a live national telecast.


Great reply, I hope that they figure it out. I imagine they would have, at minimum, the same ratings on Friday as they do Wednesday but moving to Fridays would really help with their attendance and, four times a year, they could stack Friday/Saturday, Dynamite/PPVs.


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## The Wood

PhilThePain said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I don't know why but I have a feeling that tonight's Dynamite will not only be the highest rated Dynamite of the year, but of the whole decade also.


Hi Phil!

I'm personally going with lowest, but one thing is for sure: It will set the average.


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## Optikk is All Elite

PhilThePain said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I don't know why but I have a feeling that tonight's Dynamite will not only be the highest rated Dynamite of the year, but of the whole decade also.


You really think they’ll last the decade? High hopes man.

I reckon they’ll shut up after tonight. Let’s be real about it. We got midgets all over the show. Ricoch...Musta....uh


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## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> You really think they’ll last the decade? High hopes man.
> 
> I reckon they’ll shut up after tonight. Let’s be real about it. We got midgets all over the show. Ricoch...Musta....uh


It was a joke, because it'll be the only data we have from the year.


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## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> You really think they’ll last the decade? High hopes man.
> 
> I reckon they’ll shut up after tonight. Let’s be real about it. We got midgets all over the show. Ricoch...Musta....uh


I mean The Dude said that because of the women matches everybody tuned out.

A quarter at 0 is going to hurt the rating


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## The Wood

Someone on another forum pointed out to me that the AEW TV ratings are closer to TNA on Destination America than they are to either Raw or SmackDown.


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## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Someone on another forum pointed out to me that the AEW TV ratings are closer to TNA on Destination America than they are to either Raw or SmackDown.


TNA did between 340,000-500,000 viewers on Destination Amercia. But you can't compare five years ago. TV landscape changed a lot in cord cutting etc since then. Raw was averaging 3.6 million viewers that year and now there around 2 million.


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## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> TNA did between 340,000-500,000 viewers on Destination Amercia. But you can't compare five years ago. TV landscape changed a lot in cord cutting etc since then. Raw was averaging 3.6 million viewers that year and now there around 2 million.


A lot of that has to do with cord-cutting, but a lot of that has to do with quality and the show going to three hours wearing people thin. No doubt it was a different time, but not radically different.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> A lot of that has to do with cord-cutting, but a lot of that has to do with quality and the show going to three hours wearing people thin. No doubt it was a different time, but not radically different.



FWIW TNA was down to 140,000 viewers on Pop and they were in more homes then Destination America near the end. With their best rating on Pop ever 410,000 viewers. 


Things changed enough that 5 years ago AEW average rating of 900,000 viewers since debut or even 800,000 viewers since Full Gear. Probably wouldn't have been a good rating 5 years ago. While now they are blowing away anything else that's on TNT besides NBA (and they even beat that some weeks).

Tv landscape changed to where live weekly tv brings a lot of value to a network. Because in this day and age people aren't watching reruns of old tv shows or reply of older movies like they use too. Since people can watch these shows or movies in streaming services and binge them anytime they want. So TNT is getting great deal having AEW right now. 

Considering Spike was paying like 10 million a year to show TNA and Destination America paid them millions too.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> FWIW TNA was down to 140,000 viewers on Pop and they were in more homes then Destination America near the end. With their best rating on Pop ever 410,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> Things changed enough that 5 years ago AEW average rating of 900,000 viewers since debut or even 800,000 viewers since Full Gear. Probably wouldn't have been a good rating 5 years ago. While now they are blowing away anything else that's on TNT besides NBA (and they even beat that some weeks).
> 
> Tv landscape changed to where live weekly tv brings a lot of value to a network. Because in this day and age people aren't watching reruns of old tv shows or reply of older movies like they use too. Since people can watch these shows or movies in streaming services and binge them anytime they want. So TNT is getting great deal having AEW right now.
> 
> Considering Spike was paying like 10 million a year to show TNA and Destination America paid them millions too.


Yah, but you also have to remember...it's TNA.


----------



## imthegame19

For comparsion Pop tv is in 67 million homes, TNT is under 90 million homes. While USA Network is now in more then 102 million homes. Paramount Network which was Spike Tv is in over 80 million homes. I'm not sure if it was more or less pre 2015 tho.



The Wood said:


> Yah, but you also have to remember...it's TNA.


TNA was also drawing near same amount of viewers is as Raw is now in 2011-2012. But yes all the talent that was doing those numbers left by 2017. When they left Spike t.v. at end of 2014 they were down 950 to million viewers. While Raw was still doing over 4 million.


----------



## The Dude

The only relevant talk is what AEW did on their debut. 1.4 million. We all know they’re capable of at least drawing that on TNT.

They’re doing less than half of that lately. That’s strictly a reflection of the quality of the show.

Those that want to obfuscate and divert attention from that are simply AEW defenders who will defend the show because THEY like it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

imthegame19 said:


> TNA was also drawing near same amount of viewers is as Raw is now in 2011-2012. But yes all the talent that was doing those numbers left by 2017. When they left Spike t.v. at end of 2014 they were down 950 to million viewers. While Raw was still doing over 4 million.


When did TNA do close to 2 million besides the first show with Hogan which was a disaster.


Answer would be never.


----------



## The Wood

The Dude said:


> The only relevant talk is what AEW did on their debut. 1.4 million. We all know they’re capable of at least drawing that on TNT.
> 
> They’re doing less than half of that lately. That’s strictly a reflection of the quality of the show.
> 
> Those that want to obfuscate and divert attention from that are simply AEW defenders who will defend the show because THEY like it.


Boom! There it is! If the ratings fluctuated a little bit, you know, that's understandable. People get busy and there are freak nights. But they have not been able to grow that audience. They have not been able to get word of mouth or endear themselves to the fans at large.



RainmakerV2 said:


> When did TNA do close to 2 million besides the first show with Hogan which was a disaster.
> 
> 
> Answer would be never.


Well, to be fair, they were doing 1.1 pretty consistently for most of their run. It's where Russo capped them at. I'm not sure what that translated to, but my gut/maybe my memory says 1.8 million? Now that's still a far cry from what Raw is doing now. They just got 2.4 million. That's about the AEW audience between TNA and Raw there, lol. 

You can play around with numbers and make them do a lot of crazy things. You can try and make AEW look giant, or you can make them look like the drips between TNA at its best and Raw at its very worst.


----------



## imthegame19

The Dude said:


> The only relevant talk is what AEW did on their debut. 1.4 million. We all know they’re capable of at least drawing that on TNT.
> 
> They’re doing less than half of that lately. That’s strictly a reflection of the quality of the show.
> 
> Those that want to obfuscate and divert attention from that are simply AEW defenders who will defend the show because THEY like it.


It's new show buzz happens with tv shows too. Smackdown did 4 million, NXT 1.2 million as well. How shows do second and third weeks is more fair estimate. Which is closer to 1 million viewers. They've still done 750-960 all but two weeks since week 4. They also did 822 or higher 8 of 12 weeks and this weeks should be in that range too.



RainmakerV2 said:


> When did TNA do close to 2 million besides the first show with Hogan which was a disaster.
> 
> 
> Answer would be never.


They did a few different shows in 2011 they averaged 1.7 to 1.8 million viewers per show. Here's example. 




TNA Impact Wrestling rating: The highest rating in the history of the Thursday night show


----------



## The Wood

Lol, that link says it's the highest in the history of the show. It's a very sneaky tactic to take their highest, and compare it to Raw's absolute lowest in history during a holiday.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Lol, that link says it's the highest in the history of the show. It's a very sneaky tactic to take their highest, and compare it to Raw's absolute lowest in history during a holiday.











TNA Wrestling Achieves the Best Ratings in Company History in 2011


Following in 2010's footsteps, TNA Wrestling had another transitional year after being rebranded to Impact...




bleacherreport.com






TNA average 1.17 in 2011. That averages out to being 1.7 million viewers. Even though it makes you feel better to think I'm making up stuff I'm not you are just wrong. I'm trying my best to be civil and just show you information to show that. But you clearly have a hard time accepting this.


Why do you think Russo uses this to brag so much? Because ratings were at this highest when he left and dropped off after he left.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> TNA Wrestling Achieves the Best Ratings in Company History in 2011
> 
> 
> Following in 2010's footsteps, TNA Wrestling had another transitional year after being rebranded to Impact...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bleacherreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNA average 1.17 in 2011. That averages out to being 1.7 million viewers. Even though it makes you feel better to think I'm making up stuff I'm not you are just wrong. I'm trying my best to be civil and just show you information to show that. But you clearly have a hard time accepting this.
> 
> 
> Why do you think Russo uses this to brag so much? Because ratings were at this highest when he left and dropped off after he left.


What? I actually said that number. I just pointed out that it's the highest in terms of viewers they've ever done and you're comparing it to Raw's lowest, and it's still an AEW audience apart. There's 700k between 1.7 and 2.4. I think they did a 1.8 recently on Christmas week? That's still 100k better than TNA ever did at its best. But Raw was still absolutely killing them then. 

Anyway, you've tried to dilute the point. My point is that when TNA went to Destination America, of all the places, they weren't doing much worse than AEW is now. Yeah, it's a couple of years ago, but as you have provided, more people saw them on Spike. But it's just really funny. They lost 1.2 million fans and they were still kind of punching around AEW's weight on DA.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> What? I actually said that number. I just pointed out that it's the highest in terms of viewers they've ever done and you're comparing it to Raw's lowest, and it's still an AEW audience apart. There's 700k between 1.7 and 2.4. I think they did a 1.8 recently on Christmas week? That's still 100k better than TNA ever did at its best. But Raw was still absolutely killing them then.
> 
> Anyway, you've tried to dilute the point. My point is that when TNA went to Destination America, of all the places, they weren't doing much worse than AEW is now. Yeah, it's a couple of years ago, but as you have provided, more people saw them on Spike. But it's just really funny. They lost 1.2 million fans and they were still kind of punching around AEW's weight on DA.



Raw been doing a low closer to 2 million then 2.4. This there biggest week in a while.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> FWIW TNA was down to 140,000 viewers on Pop and they were in more homes then Destination America near the end. With their best rating on Pop ever 410,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> Things changed enough that 5 years ago AEW average rating of 900,000 viewers since debut or even 800,000 viewers since Full Gear. Probably wouldn't have been a good rating 5 years ago. While now they are blowing away anything else that's on TNT besides NBA (and they even beat that some weeks).
> 
> Tv landscape changed to where live weekly tv brings a lot of value to a network. Because in this day and age people aren't watching reruns of old tv shows or reply of older movies like they use too. Since people can watch these shows or movies in streaming services and binge them anytime they want. So TNT is getting great deal having AEW right now.
> 
> Considering Spike was paying like 10 million a year to show TNA and Destination America paid them millions too.


Yep I just read this article the other day, ratings down pretty much across the board, if you look at the USA number pretty much mirrors the drop in raw and sdl for the year. But without those numbers USA is nowhere near the top of the charts. TNT down about the same as well which is why they want more live programing like AEW. 

"Ad-supported cable business’ fortunes continue to decline unless it’s live programming – news and sports". 









Cable Ratings 2019: Fox News Tops Total Viewers, ESPN Wins 18-49 Demo As Entertainment Networks Slide


Ad-supported cable business’ fortunes continue to decline unless it’s live programming – news and sports. Cable news networks Fox News and MSNBC and sports-focused ESPN repeated as 1-2-3 atop all b…




deadline.com


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> What? I actually said that number. I just pointed out that it's the highest in terms of viewers they've ever done and you're comparing it to Raw's lowest, and it's still an AEW audience apart. There's 700k between 1.7 and 2.4. I think they did a 1.8 recently on Christmas week? That's still 100k better than TNA ever did at its best. But Raw was still absolutely killing them then.
> 
> Anyway, you've tried to dilute the point. My point is that when TNA went to Destination America, of all the places, they weren't doing much worse than AEW is now. Yeah, it's a couple of years ago, but as you have provided, more people saw them on Spike. But it's just really funny. They lost 1.2 million fans and they were still kind of punching around AEW's weight on DA.


1.7 million was there average weekly viewers. They had a few shows over 2 million viewers. Also 5 years now is a huge different in time when it comes to cable tv. Plus it's flawed and only compares within a few 100 viewers if you take AEW worst ratings show and TNA best on Destination Amercia. 


Overall AEW average rating for 12 weeks of tv is around 900,000 which more then doubles TNA average ratings on DA. Then you consider how much tv less people watch cable tv since. Well it's really not close at all. They are a lot closer to million viewers TNA was still doing in 2014 on Spike. But again when you compare today standards to then AEW blows past those numbers.


----------



## kingfrass44

imthegame19 said:


> It's new show buzz happens with tv shows too. Smackdown did 4 million, Because of Rock as well. How shows do second and third weeks is more fair estimate. Which is closer to 1 million viewers. They've still done 750-960 all but two weeks since week 4. They also did 822 or higher 8 of 12 weeks and this weeks should be in that range too.
> 
> 
> 
> They did a few different shows in 2011 they averaged 1.7 to 1.8 million viewers per show. Here's example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNA Impact Wrestling rating: The highest rating in the history of the Thursday night show


Smackdown did 4 million Because of Rock nxt I did 1.2 1 hour


----------



## imthegame19

kingfrass44 said:


> Smackdown did 4 million Because of Rock nxt I did 1.2 1 hour


Don't make excuses. It's not like NXT would have fell even below 1.1 if they did two hours. Yet there lowest rating was 580,000 at one point. While when it you take away first week on Smackdown. Well week 2 did 2.9 million and now it's been down to 2.3 or 2.4. 


AEW having same up and down spikes as other new shows. This week show should be a big positive show spike. There average rating is still around 900,000 viewers. There average rating should be closer to million IMO. 


So they did lose more viewers in some weeks then I would have liked and it's there fault for type of shows they put on. But saying they should be doing 1.4 million and going from that right away is silly. 


New show hype brings in a lot of casuals who don't normally watch. That's why Smackdown got a big spike and so did AEW. So it's really the fall from week 2-4 to what they are doing now. Week 2-4 number is where they should be coming in at more often.


----------



## Saintpat

TKO Wrestling said:


> Ok so wouldn't they have been better off at Allen Arena and it being PACKED? Have you ever seen WWE/TNA/ROH come to Allen Arena?


I don’t know if it was available. Or if Lipscomb (a Church of Christ school with, afaik, still a very strict code of what they will and will not allow on campus) was willing to rent it to them.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> For comparsion Pop tv is in 67 million homes, TNT is under 90 million homes. While USA Network is now in more then 102 million homes. Paramount Network which was Spike Tv is in over 80 million homes. I'm not sure if it was more or less pre 2015 tho.


TNT is in slightly more homes than USA 








Everything You Need To Know About AEW On TNT - WrestleTalk


What station is the new show going to air on? It’s going to be on TNT, which is owned by WarnerMedia / Turner. Has TNT aired wrestling before? Yes. WCW […]




wrestletalk.com


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine

Let's face it, a good portion of the 1.4 million debut audience is gone and they are not coming back unless AEW can manage to come up with something groundbreaking such as the NWO.

No matter what it ends up being, the rating which comes out today is going to be crucial because that will be the best possible rating that AEW can hope to achieve going forward. We will also get a better sense of the Wednesday Night Wars because this is the first time they are essentially running unopposed.

I think that a low rating will put AEW in serious trouble as it will definitely raise some eyebrows at TNT.


----------



## rbl85

Benoit's Weight Machine said:


> Let's face it, a good portion of the 1.4 million debut audience is gone and they are not coming back unless AEW can manage to come up with something groundbreaking such as the NWO.
> 
> No matter what it ends up being, the rating which comes out today is going to be crucial because that will be the best possible rating that AEW can hope to achieve going forward. We will also get a better sense of the Wednesday Night Wars because this is the first time *they are essentially running unopposed.*
> 
> I think that a low rating will put AEW in serious trouble as it will definitely raise some eyebrows at TNT.


College football games, NXT still having a 2 hours show, far from being unopposed.

Unopposed is what was NXT last week.


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine

rbl85 said:


> College football games, NXT still having a 2 hours show, far from being unopposed.
> 
> Unopposed is what was NXT last week.


Hence the word "essentially".


----------



## rbl85

Benoit's Weight Machine said:


> Hence the word "essentially".


Far from "essentially"


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine

rbl85 said:


> Far from "essentially"


Do you have anything substantive to add or are you going to argue semantics? The fact is that last night was a rare opportunity as people on the fence had every reason in the world to choose to watch AEW. The number coming out later today is going to be the closest thing to a "best case scenario" rating that dynamite can hope to achieve for the time being unless they come up with a transcending angle or event.


----------



## bdon

There’s no reason that AEW shouldn’t wipe the floor with NXT. Forget the number they put out this afternoon, because football is important this time of year. Even with that, AEW should wipe the floor with NXT, who will equally be hurt.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Are numbers coming out today or they're delayed a day because of New Years?


----------



## The Dude

Sto


imthegame19 said:


> Don't make excuses. It's not like NXT would have fell even below 1.1 if they did two hours. Yet there lowest rating was 580,000 at one point. While when it you take away first week on Smackdown. Well week 2 did 2.9 million and now it's been down to 2.3 or 2.4.
> 
> 
> AEW having same up and down spikes as other new shows. This week show should be a big positive show spike. There average rating is still around 900,000 viewers. There average rating should be closer to million IMO.
> 
> 
> So they did lose more viewers in some weeks then I would have liked and it's there fault for type of shows they put on. But saying they should be doing 1.4 million and going from that right away is silly.
> 
> 
> New show hype brings in a lot of casuals who don't normally watch. That's why Smackdown got a big spike and so did AEW. So it's really the fall from week 2-4 to what they are doing now. Week 2-4 number is where they should be coming in at more often.


Stop making excuses. They should have put on a show that captured the attention of a lot of those casuals that tuned in the first time. That’s what wrestling used to do when it was popular.

Instead they put on a show that caters mostly to the hardcore fans and hence 50% of the initial viewers left.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> TNT is in slightly more homes than USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything You Need To Know About AEW On TNT - WrestleTalk
> 
> 
> What station is the new show going to air on? It’s going to be on TNT, which is owned by WarnerMedia / Turner. Has TNT aired wrestling before? Yes. WCW […]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestletalk.com



When I did Google search it says 102 vs 90?


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine

bdon said:


> There’s no reason that AEW shouldn’t wipe the floor with NXT. Forget the number they put out this afternoon, because football is important this time of year. Even with that, AEW should wipe the floor with NXT, who will equally be hurt.


I agree that AEW should be wiping the floor with NXT but the fact is that they're not and there are many interesting discussions taking place on this board as to possible reasons why.

I disagree on the Football. Over the course of the Monday night wars, football was a big deal on Monday nights and it was never blamed for a low Raw or Nitro rating.


----------



## imthegame19

imthegame19 said:


> When I did Google search it says 102 vs 90?








USA Network


USA Network has been a #1 cable entertainment network for 14 years, and is home to the most compelling television properties in the industry.Serving a broad, passionate fanbase, USA’s diverse slate includes popular award-winning dramas, unfiltered family comedies, buzzy unscripted, weekly live...




www.nbcuniversal.com


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> When I did Google search it says 102 vs 90?


USA was in slightly more homes in 2018 90 mil to TNT's 89, but it switched numbers last year. Assuming that USA got dropped from some cable packages this year here in the US.


----------



## bdon

Benoit's Weight Machine said:


> I agree that AEW should be wiping the floor with NXT but the fact is that they're not and there are many interesting discussions taking place on this board as to possible reasons why.
> 
> I disagree on the Football. Over the course of the Monday night wars, football was a big deal on Monday nights and it was never blamed for a low Raw or Nitro rating.


The Wednesday Night War is nothing like the Monday Night War. WNW is solely important between the two companies.

As to the football comment, this time of year is very important in college football. It does matter and will likely steal a good amount of viewers.

But yeah, I never expect Wednesday’s to become such a hotly contested ratings war where everyone else is just trying to steal ratings from the 2 wrestling shows the way Monday’s used to be.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> USA Network
> 
> 
> USA Network has been a #1 cable entertainment network for 14 years, and is home to the most compelling television properties in the industry.Serving a broad, passionate fanbase, USA’s diverse slate includes popular award-winning dramas, unfiltered family comedies, buzzy unscripted, weekly live...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcuniversal.com


Stand corrected then I know TNT being the bigger channel was the word when they signed the TNT deal


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Stand corrected then I know TNT being the bigger channel was the word when they signed the TNT deal


Yeah I always thought TNT was in more homes. But the I did those searches and found that. I wonder if USA is in more homes now due to all live tv steaming services.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I always thought TNT was in more homes. But the I did those searches and found that. I wonder if USA is in more homes now due to all live tv steaming services.


Idk I haven't seen a streaming option that doesn't offer both. Hell I've never even seen a cable package that didn't offer both. So idk to be honest lol.


----------



## Claro De Luna

When does the viewership information come out?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Claro De Luna said:


> When does the viewership information come out?



In the next 30 min if it is. Still not sure cause of New Years


----------



## NathanMayberry

It's coming out on Friday morning apparently. *





SHOWBUZZDAILY WEDNESDAY NETWORK SCORECARD – 1.1.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com




*


----------



## validreasoning

imthegame19 said:


> When I did Google search it says 102 vs 90?


USA hasn't been 100 million homes since 2010, that's nearly 2 years ago News & Events


----------



## imthegame19

validreasoning said:


> USA hasn't been 100 million homes since 2010, that's nearly 2 years ago News & Events








USA Network


USA Network has been a #1 cable entertainment network for 14 years, and is home to the most compelling television properties in the industry.Serving a broad, passionate fanbase, USA’s diverse slate includes popular award-winning dramas, unfiltered family comedies, buzzy unscripted, weekly live...




www.nbcuniversal.com


----------



## Aedubya

So when do we start freaking out about the ratings?


----------



## A PG Attitude

The suspense is killing me. I'm gonna go with 1.06 million


----------



## Aedubya

Im going with 0.8


----------



## IamMark

Where do you guys find these ratings? I usually look at Showbuzz Daily but sometimes some random dude on Twitter gets them faster.


----------



## Taroostyles

967k viewers great number

.36 in 18-49


----------



## Knoxflag

Damn great numbers, with the football competition they had it's impressive


----------



## Erik.

... But.... But...

I was told they only get 600k viewers. Must be painful for some.

NXT got 548k by the way. I guess theyre going out of business.


----------



## qntntgood

Taroostyles said:


> 967k viewers great number
> 
> .36 in 18-49


Great indeed,a bounce back from last week what were the highest rate d segment's.


----------



## rbl85

Knoxflag said:


> Damn great numbers, with the football competition they had it's impressive


College football actually did huge numbers.


----------



## V-Trigger

it helps that they had a great show so they may hook some NXT fans.


----------



## The Dude

Still pretty pathetic that they can’t even do 1 million even without competition from NXT.

People will gloat over this number but they’ll be back down to 650-750 next week.

And the problem remains... nobody other than the hardcore wrestling marks is watching.

Sub-TNA’s average numbers are now being celebrated as “amazing”. Tells you all you need to know about the mental gymnastics going on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Good rating, no complaints

Gonna exit this thread before all the BS arrives


----------



## Y2K23

Good rating for an well rounded amazing show . Well deserved.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Does a better number than NXT did unapposed and still people find a way to shit on it.


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> Does a better number than NXT did unapposed and still people find a way to shit on it.


Some people will tell you that NXT was a taped show last week and that's why AEW did better......... even tho some of those people told me quite a few times that a show being taped change close to nothing for the viewership


----------



## Claro De Luna

Good numbers this week despite it being new years day. Well deserved as it was a great show top to bottom. Why was NXT unusually low with the viewership? I know it was some sort of award show but was it not a live show with wrestling and continued story telling?


----------



## FaceTime Heel

A PG Attitude said:


> Does a better number than NXT did unapposed and still people find a way to shit on it.


Right. People are weird.


----------



## The Dude

FaceTime Heel said:


> Right. People are weird.


Agreed. Defending numbers that are lower than what TNA used to get crapped on for is definitely weird.


----------



## imthegame19

Good rating as I predicted. I was hoping for 1 million plus. But gotta be happy with big increase. Once again it shows that AEW hasn't lost most of its audience from week 2-4.


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> Good numbers this week despite it being new years day. Well deserved as it was a great show top to bottom. Why was NXT unusually low with the viewership? I know it was some sort of award show but was it not a *live show with wrestling and continued story telling?*


Nope, just awards and the best matches of 2019.


----------



## FaceTime Heel

The Dude said:


> Agreed. Defending numbers that are lower than what TNA used to get crapped on for is definitely weird.


Feel free to join us in 2020 instead of referencing ratings from 2012.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

FaceTime Heel said:


> Feel free to join us in 2020 instead of referencing ratings from 2012.


RIght. Different era back then, Raws lows today are doing similar to TNAs highs then. Nitro back in it’s dying days was on par with Raw today. Quoting past era ratings in the age of cord cutting is ridiculous.


----------



## DOTL

The Dude said:


> Still pretty pathetic that they can’t even do 1 million even without competition from NXT.
> 
> People will gloat over this number but they’ll be back down to 650-750 next week.
> 
> And the problem remains... nobody other than the hardcore wrestling marks is watching.
> 
> Sub-TNA’s average numbers are now being celebrated as “amazing”. Tells you all you need to know about the mental gymnastics going on.


So we go from NXT is burying AEW to AEW isn't doing as well as a show 8 years ago.

I'd call that progress if I didn't know any better.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Good rating, well deserved from a show that had a lot to offer. I hope they can maintain their momentum.


----------



## FaceTime Heel

Ham and Egger said:


> Good rating, well deserved from a show that had a lot to offer. I hope they can maintain their momentum.


This sums it up perfectly


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Some people will tell you that NXT was a taped show last week and that's why AEW did better......... even tho some of those people told me quite a few times that a show being taped change close to nothing for the viewership


NXT wasn't a taped show with new content. It was literally a recap show.


Im not one of these block people guys,but your blatant stupidity is really starting to fuck with me.


----------



## Chan Hung

Glad they went back up. They were in the top 20 most watched of the week and against tons of high rated football games. Lets see how they do next week vs. NXT. Still close to 1 million is a pretty good thing this week.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Once again all the people freaking out like idiots over one decent rating are looking hella stupid right now.

Maybe it's time to admit that AEW is doing just fine and Tony and The Elite know what the fuck they're doing


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Once again all the people freaking out like idiots over one decent rating are looking hella stupid right now.
> 
> Maybe it's time to admit that AEW is doing just fine and Tony and The Elite know what the fuck they're doing



Imagine coming to a conclusion like that when they're running a PPV like built up homecoming show while NXT is running a recap show with no new content LOL.

So do I get to make the same proclamation the other way if NXT beats them by 100K again next week? Does it go both ways or?


----------



## A PG Attitude

NXT only beat AEW because they had two title maches that could have easily main evented a Takeover. They don't have that in their arsenal every week.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> NXT wasn't a taped show with new content. It was literally a recap show.
> 
> 
> Im not one of these block people guys,but your blatant stupidity is really starting to fuck with me.


Someone fucked you too hard because it seems that you can't read anymore......
I was talking about the NXT show of last week.


----------



## Jonhern

Chan Hung said:


> Glad they went back up. They were in the top 20 most watched of the week and against tons of high rated football games. Lets see how they do next week vs. NXT. Still close to 1 million is a pretty good thing this week.


Top 20 for the whole day but top 6 in prime time which is a more important time period.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> Imagine coming to a conclusion like that when they're running a PPV like built up homecoming show while NXT is running a recap show with no new content LOL.
> 
> So do I get to make the same proclamation the other way if NXT beats them by 100K again next week? Does it go both ways or?


How was this a ppv quality show? Did you even watch it? No championship matches except the women's, no Jericho match. That's one lousy ppv lol.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Biggest Dynamite show since TV debut and running unopposed by NXT but couldn’t even crack a million.

Disappointing.


----------



## Aedubya

There is so much rambling nonsense on here

Did NXT have a show on v AEW this week or not? Hard to make out through all the nonsense

Thanks


----------



## The Dude

TKO Wrestling said:


> RIght. Different era back then, Raws lows today are doing similar to TNAs highs then. Nitro back in it’s dying days was on par with Raw today. Quoting past era ratings in the age of cord cutting is ridiculous.


Lol using the cord cutting excuse when AEW proved it was possible for them to draw 1.4 million just three months ago. I suppose a bunch of ppl discovered chord cutting since October ?.

Mental gymnastics at its finest.


----------



## The Dude

DOTL said:


> So we go from NXT is burying AEW to AEW isn't doing as well as a show 8 years ago.
> 
> I'd call that progress if I didn't know any better.


Who’s we? I never said NXT was Burying AEW. They’re both playing to a small niche audience of marks.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> *Biggest Dynamite show since TV debut* and running unopposed by NXT but couldn’t even crack a million.
> 
> Disappointing.


I don't see where it was biggest.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Dark Emperor said:


> Biggest Dynamite show since TV debut and running unopposed by NXT but couldn’t even crack a million.
> 
> Disappointing.


They weren’t completely unopposed, NXT still had a show on; and there were huge-ass college bowl games Wednesday night. 2nd highest number they’ve drawn, but by all means keep shitting on it. 

Yep, these ratings are just spiraling right down the turlette.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> I don't see where it was biggest.


Not at all. Darby vs Cody was no difference then Darby/Moxley or Jericho/Darby.

Woman's title match was back up match. Moxley/Trent isn't a big match, Guevara/Dustin might be lower card ppv match and Elite vs Pac/Lucha Bros isn't some big match either. It was a good card but nothing ppv quality or even what NXT did on 18th. This is just same people with same stupid excuses. Thank God I blocked all those people and didn't see any of these idiotic comments.


----------



## Chan Hung

Reggie Dunlop said:


> They weren’t completely unopposed, NXT still had a show on; and there were huge-ass college bowl games Wednesday night. 2nd highest number they’ve drawn, but by all means keep shitting on it.
> 
> Yep, these ratings are just spiraling right down the turlette.


I have to agree with this. Technically NXT still aired on USA Network, granted it was ALL replay but still there was something WWE-related on the USA network. Therefore, AEW did technically compete against it. Now, what would have been bigger news is if AEW lost to an NXT 2 hour replay show.
"IF" AEW was really unopposed then yes the USA network would not have featured any WWE content.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> I have to agree with this. Technically NXT still aired on USA Network, granted it was ALL replay but still there was something WWE-related on the USA network. Therefore, AEW did technically compete against it. Now, what would have been bigger news is if AEW lost to an NXT 2 hour replay show.
> "IF" AEW was really unopposed then yes the USA network would not have featured any WWE content.


In a way AEW had more opposition than the other weeks because of the college football games.


----------



## Illogical

The Dude triggered af that AEW's not out of business yet. Maybe next week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Dude said:


> Lol using the cord cutting excuse when AEW proved it was possible for them to draw 1.4 million just three months ago. I suppose a bunch of ppl discovered chord cutting since October ?.
> 
> Mental gymnastics at its finest.


Not really. Raw then would draw 3.5-4 million, today 2-2.5 million. It’s not hard to see ratio difference. I’m not trying to knock TNA, I was a HUGE fan, but they also weren’t running against a WWE show either. It’s just a tad different.

No doubt in my mind that if there was no NXT, and AEW debuted in 2009 and not 2019, that the first show would have been around 2.5 million and they would be drawing 1.5-2 million a week.


----------



## The Dude

TKO Wrestling said:


> Not really. Raw then would draw 3.5-4 million, today 2-2.5 million. It’s not hard to see ratio difference. I’m not trying to knock TNA, I was a HUGE fan, but they also weren’t running against a WWE show either. It’s just a tad different.
> 
> No doubt in my mind that if there was no NXT, and AEW debuted in 2009 and not 2019, that the first show would have been around 2.5 million and they would be drawing 1.5-2 million a week.


Really.


TKO Wrestling said:


> Not really. Raw then would draw 3.5-4 million, today 2-2.5 million. It’s not hard to see ratio difference. I’m not trying to knock TNA, I was a HUGE fan, but they also weren’t running against a WWE show either. It’s just a tad different.
> 
> No doubt in my mind that if there was no NXT, and AEW debuted in 2009 and not 2019, that the first show would have been around 2.5 million and they would be drawing 1.5-2 million a week.


What does that have to do with AEW losing all those viewers since October?

It has nothing to do with cord cutting. Unless you’re silly enough to believe people just discovered cord cutting in October


----------



## Chan Hung

Besides TV ratings, people take the youtube numbers, dvr #s etc into consideration into the cumulative average, because it is important and part of today's way of really knowing a more true # of viewership. TV ratings are a big deal but sadly not a true indicator of how many really are watching thus we need to take into consideration all the other mediums used to view pro wrestling.


----------



## DOTL

The Dude said:


> Who’s we? I never said NXT was Burying AEW. They’re both playing to a small niche audience of marks.


"We" is the message board. I'm just noting the difference in the nature of the complaining.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This thread for me is literally now just positive comments or people talking to ghosts.

it seems I have EXORCISED DA DEMONSSSSS!!!

this thread is clear ?‍♂


----------



## ClintDagger

4th highest overall viewership and 7th highest in the demo since their debut. Ranked #13 In the demo which is their 3rd worst thus far. It’s a mixed bag I suppose.


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread for me is literally now just positive comments or people talking to ghosts.
> 
> it seems I have EXORCISED DA DEMONSSSSS!!!
> 
> this thread is clear ?‍♂



Haha I know I'm loving the advice you gave me. I put like 5 people on ignore and all I see is positive comments. Or people replying to nobody. Just based off reading the replies. The trolls and haters around here can sure come up with some ridiculous excuses haha.


----------



## The Dude

DOTL said:


> "We" is the message board. I'm just noting the difference in the nature of the complaining.


I think you’re trying to lump all the criticisms together to fit your narrative.

not all of these criticisms are the same


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> 4th highest overall viewership and 7th highest in the demo since their debut. Ranked #13 In the demo which is their 3rd worst thus far. It’s a mixed bag I suppose.


Any other week they are 4-8th in the demo which we saw most weeks in October or November. There was crap load of big college football games on that made their demo spot lower.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

I didn't think they'd get that high personally - Glad they did. 

Hopefully the momentum continues!


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

ClintDagger said:


> 4th highest overall viewership and 7th highest in the demo since their debut. Ranked #13 In the demo which is their 3rd worst thus far. It’s a mixed bag I suppose.


If you look at the chart, there was a billion College Football stuff that took the top spots, and they took a chunk of the 18-49. I think this is a pretty good rating all things considered, it was New Years Day, and there was the biggest competition since World Series Game. Obviously, NXT taking an off night helped, but they still had 540k viewers. The Football game hurts them more than a traditional NXT show.

A lot of positives in this number, if they can build off of it to 1 million+ again, they are golden.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> 4th highest overall viewership and 7th highest in the demo since their debut. Ranked #13 In the demo which is their 3rd worst thus far. It’s a mixed bag I suppose.


The silver lining is that in the primetime part of the day they were 6th, they were 13th for the day because football games were on since noon. 

On the other hand, haven't gone back and looked at old numbers but I do think they also underperformed in the demo from thier usual, the increase in viewership was likely older people.


----------



## Jonhern

Chan Hung said:


> Besides TV ratings, people take the youtube numbers, dvr #s etc into consideration into the cumulative average, because it is important and part of today's way of really knowing a more true # of viewership. TV ratings are a big deal but sadly not a true indicator of how many really are watching thus we need to take into consideration all the other mediums used to view pro wrestling.


Very true which is why anyone who focuses on "total" viewership is going to wrong with thier hot takes every single time. It's traditional cable only and not a true indicator for actual viewership like it was back even when tna was on. All you have to do is look at attendance between the two to realize AEW has a lot more viewers than TNA back then. They might not watch on cable but they are getting the product in some fashion or else they wouldn't be going to the shows. The only thing ratings should be used for is to look at the demo and how it compares to other shows, that will determine the success of AEW on TNT.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> The silver lining is that in the primetime part of the day they were 6th, they were 13th for the day because football games were on since noon.
> 
> On the other hand, haven't gone back and looked at old numbers but I do think they also underperformed in the demo from thier usual, the increase in viewership was likely older people.


If you compare this week ratings with the ratings of 3 weeks ago (when AEW and NXT were tied), it's the male 18-49 demo who was up the most.


----------



## shandcraig

I'm not a ratings buff but thats good they made a big jump. Anyone care to wonder why that happened?


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread for me is literally now just positive comments or people talking to ghosts.
> 
> it seems I have EXORCISED DA DEMONSSSSS!!!
> 
> this thread is clear ?‍♂



So you're an admitted 40 year old man who needs the comfort of a safe space echo chamber.



Lit.


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> I'm not a ratings buff but thats good they made a big jump. Anyone care to wonder why that happened?


Less comp from wrestling fans, holidays winding down, show was promoted well, and the shows in general have been solid to great anyway.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> So you're an admitted 40 year old man who needs the comfort of a safe space echo chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> Lit.


Your blatant stupidity is really starting to fuck with me.


----------



## shandcraig

RapShepard said:


> Less comp from wrestling fans, holidays winding down, show was promoted well, and the shows in general have been solid to great anyway.


Tell me you didnt just say that

Sucka


----------



## RapShepard

shandcraig said:


> Tell me you didnt just say that
> 
> Sucka


Early WWE heel Booker was awesome.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The Dude said:


> I think you’re trying to lump all the criticisms together to fit your narrative.
> 
> not all of these criticisms are the same


This post is absurdly and hilariously ironic. That you or anyone could have had the imagination to conjure up the thought then actually type it here immediately after.

But here we are.........

The impossible is possible.


----------



## Garty

The Dude said:


> Lol using the cord cutting excuse when AEW proved it was possible for them to draw 1.4 million just three months ago. I suppose a bunch of ppl discovered chord cutting since October ?.
> 
> Mental gymnastics at its finest.


Yeah, you mean like the "new" members that have all of a sudden discovered AEW and thought, "Hey, is there a website dedicated to wrestling, so I can voice my displeasure with AEW and have everyone in the world be able to read it, see that my opinion is of course the correct one and totally agree with me?"

99% of your posts in only 2 days, have all said the same thing over and over, just like I tell those this exact same thing over and over. It's been about a week or two, but here you go. Congratulations!


----------



## The Dude

ripcitydisciple said:


> This post is absurdly and hilariously ironic. That you or anyone could have had the imagination to conjure up the thought then actually type it here immediately after.
> 
> But here we are.........
> 
> The impossible is possible.


The idea that you think my post was anything but accurate shows how truly delusional your are



Garty said:


> Yeah, you mean like the "new" members that have all of a sudden discovered AEW and thought, "Hey, is there a website dedicated to wrestling, so I can voice my displeasure with AEW and have everyone in the world be able to read it, see that my opinion is of course the correct one and totally agree with me?"
> 
> 99% of your posts in only 2 days, have all said the same thing over and over, just like I tell those this exact same thing over and over. It's been about a week or two, but here you go. Congratulations!


So because I signed up for an account and started posting about stuff that... _gasps_..... interests me..... that means there’s some grand conspiracy going on for the purpose of discrediting AEW or whatever other motive you’ve conjured up in your little pea brain?

Dear lord ??‍♂. The obsessions with how many posts someone has around here is absolutely insane.

Yes, I’m a new member. Yes I post about AEW because that’s pretty the only thing left that interests me in the business. My hope is that they make a lot of improvements, a list of which I suggested in “In your opinion, what is AEW doing wrong” topic.

That’s pretty much all there is too it. Not some grand conspiracy that some of you people seem to have conjured up, probably due to an untreated victim hood concept.

Leave the hysterics at the door and stop obsessing over what someone’s post count is. FFS.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

brilliant rating. deserved for a fantastic show. More like this weeks' show please.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The Dude said:


> The idea that you think my post was anything but accurate shows how truly delusional your are


Do you know what ironic means?


----------



## Garty

The Dude said:


> So because I signed up for an account and started posting about stuff that... _gasps_..... interests me..... that means there’s some grand conspiracy going on for the purpose of discrediting AEW or whatever other motive you’ve conjured up in your little pea brain?
> 
> Dear lord ??‍♂. The obsessions with how many posts someone has around here is absolutely insane.
> 
> Yes, I’m a new member. Yes I post about AEW because that’s pretty the only thing left that interests me in the business. My hope is that they make a lot of improvements, a list of which I suggested in “In your opinion, what is AEW doing wrong” topic.
> 
> That’s pretty much all there is too it. Not some grand conspiracy that some of you people seem to have conjured up, probably due to an untreated victim hood concept.
> 
> Leave the hysterics at the door and stop obsessing over what someone’s post count is. FFS.


Umm, no, AEW is not interesting to you. You just admitted it. You're totally contradicting yourself.

Interest=Like Like=Good Good=Enjoy Enjoy=Satisfaction

If you have an interest in something, you must think it's good, right? And if it sucks, then you must be uninterested, right? Regardless of your opinions on "improvements" they need to make, is immaterial. According to your opinion, they aren't making those "improvements", therefore you must not like it, correct?

And please, you're the one who needs to stop obsessing over all things AEW is "doing wrong". Go ahead and reply to this because your post-count will go up and maybe you'll have a bit more street-cred to continue on this crusade you seem to be recruiting for.

I will not respond to your reply, or anything else you have to say.


----------



## The Dude

ripcitydisciple said:


> Do you know what ironic means?


Do you know what delusional means?



Garty said:


> Umm, no, AEW is not interesting to you. You just admitted it. You're totally contradicting yourself.
> 
> Interest=Like Like=Good Good=Enjoy Enjoy=Satisfaction
> 
> If you have an interest in something, you must think it's good, right? And if it sucks, then you must be uninterested, right? Regardless of your opinions on "improvements" they need to make, is immaterial. According to your opinion, they aren't making those "improvements", therefore you must not like it, correct?
> 
> And please, you're the one who needs to stop obsessing over all things AEW is "doing wrong". Go ahead and reply to this because your post-count will go up and maybe you'll have a bit more street-cred to continue on this crusade you seem to be on.
> 
> I will not respond to your reply, or anything else you have to say.


I stopped after the “interest = like” thing.

If you think that in order to be interested in something you automatically like it, and everything about it, then you need way more help than I can provide.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The Dude said:


> Do you know what delusional means?


This right here is an example of irony. You are literally *lumping* me in with everyone else you have 'discussions' with and in the very post I replied to first.


----------



## The Dude

ripcitydisciple said:


> This right here is an example of irony. You are literally *lumping* me in with everyone else you have 'discussions' with and in the very post I replied to first.


How so? Give me an example in my response that “lumped you in with others”.

All I did was call you delusional. Lol.


----------



## Garty

ripcitydisciple said:


> This right here is an example of irony. You are literally *lumping* me in with everyone else you have 'discussions' with and in the very post I replied to first.


Stop wasting your time and energy with this guy. He talks about AEW fans being in an echo chamber.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Garty said:


> Stop wasting your time and energy with this guy. He talks about AEW fans being in an echo chamber.


I just want to find out what level of self awareness they have. But you are right.



The Dude said:


> How so? Give me an example in my response that “lumped you in with others”.
> 
> All I did was call you delusional. Lol.


Are you serious? Oh boy.......

Why am I delusional in your opinion?

Is it the same 'delusional' as the others you chat with who don't agree with you and you say that about?


----------



## The XL 2

Lol at people celebrating a sub 1 mil rating with no NXT as competition


----------



## llj

The XL 2 said:


> Lol at people celebrating a sub 1 mil rating with no NXT as competition


You could argue this is a better number than what NXT did without AEW as competition a week ago


----------



## The Wood

Aedubya said:


> So when do we start freaking out about the ratings?


People use “freak out” as a dog whistle. The ratings are not impressive for wrestling, but are fine for the norm. People act like TNT _must_ be stoked. We don’t actually know whether or not they are happy with the revenue or not. We don’t know if they expected wrestling numbers or something a bit below the station average, but above most things in the slot.

The ratings holding should be a concern. They’ve been going down fairly consistently. People seem to judge week-by-week and go “oh, it’s fine.” It won’t be when it’s not. 



A PG Attitude said:


> Does a better number than NXT did unapposed and still people find a way to shit on it.


You predicted over 1 million. You’re having a go at people for doing mental gymnastics when you are rationalizing your disappointment.

I don’t think anyone expected a particularly low number, especially with AEW going virtually unopposed. NXT was a year-end special. This was them not showing up. If NXT won, AEW should have been shitting dacks.

You are comparing Christmas Day to New Year’s Day? Holy shit, talk about gymnastics. People are with their families on Christmas. People are nursing hangovers and unwinding before work on NYD. They are completely different holidays.

This is a fine number for the night for AEW. One of their higher ratings, but still not as high as it could be or would be if the product was actually hot. This was their best shot and is probably going to be their biggest win margin and might be the highest their rating is ever going to get, considering they loaded this up and were opening the year unopposed.


----------



## The Dude

ripcitydisciple said:


> Are you serious? Oh boy.......
> 
> Why am I delusional in your opinion?
> 
> Is it the same 'delusional' as the others you chat with who don't agree with you and you say that about?


Actually no, I gave you a specific reason as to why you’re being delusional.

Your reply is “well that’s ironic” except you still can’t back up how it’s ironic.

Since there’a nobody else delusional enough to pretend my initial post you replied to wasn’t accurate, you solely own the label in that context.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The Dude said:


> Still pretty pathetic that they can’t even do 1 million even without competition from NXT.
> 
> People will gloat over this number but they’ll be back down to 650-750 next week.
> 
> And the problem remains... nobody other than the hardcore wrestling marks is watching.
> 
> Sub-TNA’s average numbers are now being celebrated as “amazing”. Tells you all you need to know about the mental gymnastics going on.


Meanwhile NXT was 29th last week going against nothing but Christmas Story.

AEW was 13th with their highest viewership since October on a football heavy day and NXT awards LOL.


----------



## DOTL

The Dude said:


> I think you’re trying to lump all the criticisms together to fit your narrative.
> 
> not all of these criticisms are the same


And what narrative would that be?

I'm just noting the hilarious tendency for the mood of the board to swing between pessimistic narratives tailored for how well AEW does in the week.

I bet if AEW had 5 million viewers people would lament about the quality of the viewership, or something.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The Dude said:


> Actually no, I gave you a specific reason as to why you’re being delusional.
> 
> Your reply is “well that’s ironic” except you still can’t back up how it’s ironic.
> 
> Since there’a nobody else delusional enough to pretend my initial post you replied to wasn’t accurate, you solely own the label in that context.


I am physically face palming my hand over my face at the lack of self awareness you are exhibiting at this moment.

Me saying something you said is ironic does not mean I am stating what you said isn't accurate. The two are not the same.

Now why don't you go hunt through your recent posts and find the subject that would be what I was referring to in your first post I replied too.

The skills you will need to do this are;

Problem Solving
Reading Comprehension

When you have stumbled upon the answer, you let me know. Until then this discussion can go no further.

Good luck


Good day (Night)


----------



## Taroostyles

The XL 2 said:


> Lol at people celebrating a sub 1 mil rating with no NXT as competition


NXT still did 550k viewers, it's not like they werent on last night. 

The real lol is the people who celebrate NXTs wins as some kind of AEW demise when they've won the battle 10 out of 13 head to head meetings. Imagine being someone who celebrated and berated their opponents when they were 3-10. 

Now that's hilarious.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The XL 2 said:


> Lol at people celebrating a sub 1 mil rating with no NXT as competition


LOL AT PEOPLE SHITTING ON ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AEW DOES NO MATTER WHAT.

Spin it any way you want, Dynamite did a decent number. So suck it.

This dude person has to be a rejoiner. Not sure which one, but there are so many dickheads to choose from. On the list you go with your other alteregos.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> RIght. Different era back then, Raws lows today are doing similar to TNAs highs then. Nitro back in it’s dying days was on par with Raw today. Quoting past era ratings in the age of cord cutting is ridiculous.


Cable is still in millions upon millions of homes. It is still possible to get ratings above 1 and 2 million. People use the gentrification of cable and the spread of viewership and alternative means of consuming content to justify why people choose not to like their product.

There is more competition, but that doesn’t justify running off your fan-base and them choosing to watch or do other things. 



A PG Attitude said:


> NXT only beat AEW because they had two title maches that could have easily main evented a Takeover. They don't have that in their arsenal every week.


Well, actually they kind of can. They’re pretty good at building stuff. They can also offer dream matches from the main roster. I mean, it would be stupid to do it every week, but they’ve got a much deeper pool than AEW who have to load their shows up.



Jonhern said:


> How was this a ppv quality show? Did you even watch it? No championship matches except the women's, no Jericho match. That's one lousy ppv lol.


Lol, they promoted the shit out of this. Almost every segment was advertised. Moxley, Women’s Title, Elite tag, Dustin/Sammy, the idea of “Homecoming.” This was a heavy show.



Aedubya said:


> There is so much rambling nonsense on here
> 
> Did NXT have a show on v AEW this week or not? Hard to make out through all the nonsense
> 
> Thanks


They had a rerun, basically. Recaps and some goofy award shit.



imthegame19 said:


> Not at all. Darby vs Cody was no difference then Darby/Moxley or Jericho/Darby.
> 
> Woman's title match was back up match. Moxley/Trent isn't a big match, Guevara/Dustin might be lower card ppv match and Elite vs Pac/Lucha Bros isn't some big match either. It was a good card but nothing ppv quality or even what NXT did on 18th. This is just same people with same stupid excuses. Thank God I blocked all those people and didn't see any of these idiotic comments.


Cody/Darby is a rematch from a draw on a special. Nice try.



rbl85 said:


> In a way AEW had more opposition than the other weeks because of the college football games.


And yet, in a way, they didn’t.



Chan Hung said:


> Besides TV ratings, people take the youtube numbers, dvr #s etc into consideration into the cumulative average, because it is important and part of today's way of really knowing a more true # of viewership. TV ratings are a big deal but sadly not a true indicator of how many really are watching thus we need to take into consideration all the other mediums used to view pro wrestling.


That’s irrelevant when discussing the ratings. That sort of viewership doesn’t factor into their TV business at all.



DOTL said:


> "We" is the message board. I'm just noting the difference in the nature of the complaining.


You’re rushing to hasty generalizations in order to dismiss people without dealing with their actual arguments.



Jonhern said:


> Very true which is why anyone who focuses on "total" viewership is going to wrong with thier hot takes every single time. It's traditional cable only and not a true indicator for actual viewership like it was back even when tna was on. All you have to do is look at attendance between the two to realize AEW has a lot more viewers than TNA back then. They might not watch on cable but they are getting the product in some fashion or else they wouldn't be going to the shows. The only thing ratings should be used for is to look at the demo and how it compares to other shows, that will determine the success of AEW on TNT.


This shit again. Anyone who listens to this guy on this subject is going down a serious windy path. He literally says that nothing else matters other than the key demo. In 2020. He doesn’t say “most important,” which is something I know many TV scholars and advertisers would debate with the ever-changing nature of the medium, but that they are the only thing. Like this is still the late 90’s.



Garty said:


> Yeah, you mean like the "new" members that have all of a sudden discovered AEW and thought, "Hey, is there a website dedicated to wrestling, so I can voice my displeasure with AEW and have everyone in the world be able to read it, see that my opinion is of course the correct one and totally agree with me?"
> 
> 99% of your posts in only 2 days, have all said the same thing over and over, just like I tell those this exact same thing over and over. It's been about a week or two, but here you go. Congratulations!


People have to sign up to a forum at some point. If the discussion is exciting enough, why not join? I don’t know or care when you signed up, but you must have been a troll then, right?



Garty said:


> Umm, no, AEW is not interesting to you. You just admitted it. You're totally contradicting yourself.
> 
> Interest=Like Like=Good Good=Enjoy Enjoy=Satisfaction
> 
> If you have an interest in something, you must think it's good, right? And if it sucks, then you must be uninterested, right? Regardless of your opinions on "improvements" they need to make, is immaterial. According to your opinion, they aren't making those "improvements", therefore you must not like it, correct?
> 
> And please, you're the one who needs to stop obsessing over all things AEW is "doing wrong". Go ahead and reply to this because your post-count will go up and maybe you'll have a bit more street-cred to continue on this crusade you seem to be recruiting for.
> 
> I will not respond to your reply, or anything else you have to say.


Who the fuck thinks interest = like? I have an interest in World War II—that must mean I love people dying. This might just be the most ridiculous take I’ve seen on these forums ever.



ripcitydisciple said:


> This right here is an example of irony. You are literally *lumping* me in with everyone else you have 'discussions' with and in the very post I replied to first.


No, he wasn’t. He called you, specifically, out on being delusional. Which you are, since you targeted The Dude for a post where he called out DOTL in exactly what DOTL was doing.



Garty said:


> Stop wasting your time and energy with this guy. He talks about AEW fans being in an echo chamber.


There are literally people in here talking about blocking people and only seeing positive feedback. I mean, you can disagree whether echo chambers are a good thing or not (I personally don’t think people should have to expose themselves to everything), but that is what is meant by an echo chamber. There are actually AEW fans in here doing that.



ripcitydisciple said:


> Are you serious? Oh boy.......
> 
> Why am I delusional in your opinion?
> 
> Is it the same 'delusional' as the others you chat with who don't agree with you and you say that about?


Nah, I think it’s because you tried to pick a fight with someone for calling a potato a potato.



CMPunkRock316 said:


> Meanwhile NXT was 29th last week going against nothing but Christmas Story.
> 
> AEW was 13th with their highest viewership since October on a football heavy day and NXT awards LOL.


You are insane if you don’t think Christmas Day is a harder day than New Year’s. Why do you think the college games are held on New Year’s and not Christmas?



DOTL said:


> And what narrative would that be?
> 
> I'm just noting the hilarious tendency for the mood of the board to swing between pessimistic narratives tailored for how well AEW does in the week.
> 
> I bet if AEW had 5 million viewers people would lament about the quality of the viewership, or something.


You just did it again. You deny a narrative and then group “the board” together.


----------



## The Dude

ripcitydisciple said:


> I am physically face palming my hand over my face at the lack of self awareness you are exhibiting at this moment.
> 
> Me saying something you said is ironic does not mean I am stating what you said isn't accurate. The two are not the same.
> 
> Now why don't you go hunt through your recent posts and find the subject that would be what I was referring to in your first post I replied too.
> 
> The skills you will need to do this are;
> 
> Problem Solving
> Reading Comprehension
> 
> When you have stumbled upon the answer, you let me know. Until then this discussion can go no further.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> 
> Good day (Night)


Actually, the discussion goes no further until you do one of those things -

1) Show how specifically I “lumped you in with everyone else”, thus giving your irony claim credibility

or

2) Admit to being a liar and apologize


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The Wood said:


> Cable is still in millions upon millions of homes. It is still possible to get ratings above 1 and 2 million. People use the gentrification of cable and the spread of viewership and alternative means of consuming content to justify why people choose not to like their product.
> 
> There is more competition, but that doesn’t justify running off your fan-base and them choosing to watch or do other things.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually they kind of can. They’re pretty good at building stuff. They can also offer dream matches from the main roster. I mean, it would be stupid to do it every week, but they’ve got a much deeper pool than AEW who have to load their shows up.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, they promoted the shit out of this. Almost every segment was advertised. Moxley, Women’s Title, Elite tag, Dustin/Sammy, the idea of “Homecoming.” This was a heavy show.
> 
> 
> 
> They had a rerun, basically. Recaps and some goofy award shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Cody/Darby is a rematch from a draw on a special. Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, in a way, they didn’t.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s irrelevant when discussing the ratings. That sort of viewership doesn’t factor into their TV business at all.
> 
> 
> 
> You’re rushing to hasty generalizations in order to dismiss people without dealing with their actual arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> This shit again. Anyone who listens to this guy on this subject is going down a serious windy path. He literally says that nothing else matters other than the key demo. In 2020. He doesn’t say “most important,” which is something I know many TV scholars and advertisers would debate with the ever-changing nature of the medium, but that they are the only thing. Like this is still the late 90’s.
> 
> 
> 
> People have to sign up to a forum at some point. If the discussion is exciting enough, why not join? I don’t know or care when you signed up, but you must have been a troll then, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck thinks interest = like? I have an interest in World War II—that must mean I love people dying. This might just be the most ridiculous take I’ve seen on these forums ever.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wasn’t. He called you, specifically, out on being delusional. Which you are, since you targeted The Dude for a post where he called out DOTL in exactly what DOTL was doing.
> 
> 
> 
> There are literally people in here talking about blocking people and only seeing positive feedback. I mean, you can disagree whether echo chambers are a good thing or not (I personally don’t think people should have to expose themselves to everything), but that is what is meant by an echo chamber. There are actually AEW fans in here doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I think it’s because you tried to pick a fight with someone for calling a potato a potato.
> 
> 
> You are insane if you don’t think Christmas Day is a harder day than New Year’s. Why do you think the college games are held on New Year’s and not Christmas?
> 
> 
> 
> You just did it again. You deny a narrative and then group “the board” together.


Why are you butting into a subject you don't know shit about? 

If what I asked the actual person I was talking too(not you) is labeled as me 'picking a fight' with them then there is no reason for me to post on here to someone who has a different opinion on topics.

This society...........

This is the only response you will get from me on this considering you are not the original person I was conversing with.

Good day(Night)


----------



## The Wood

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why are you butting into a subject you don't know shit about?
> 
> If what I asked the actual person I was talking too(not you) is labeled as me 'picking a fight' with them then there is no reason for me to post on here to someone who has a different opinion on topics.
> 
> This society...........
> 
> This is the only response you will get from me on this considering you are not the original person I was conversing with.
> 
> Good day(Night)


You’re talking absolute shit. The Dude pointed out that DOTL is grouping all those who criticize together in order to dismiss a group instead of an individual—which is 100% what they were doing. It’s demonstrable. You then insulted The Dude. Which was very weird. But we have records.

The Dude is fantastic, by the way. God-tier. Instead of attacking him (I’m assuming him because of the name, so sorry, The Dude, if you aren’t and it’s just a great homage) because you don’t like when he signed up or how many posts he has, how about you deal with his incredibly savage points?

And on AEW winning head-to-heads. Sigh, that was always going to happen. You get that, right? That’s why NXT didn’t debut against them. It is why NXT didn’t load up its shows with main roster talent until later. More importantly, it’s why they didn’t pull the trigger on NXT talent appearing on the main roster until later.

Since then, things have changed. A lot of what AEW fans call a win have been recorded as a stone’s throw, which means they aren’t necessarily accurate. People know that ratings aren’t exact right? And no one in television thinks of them that way. AEW “winning” by 25k means absolutely nothing to anyone other than Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez and Taroostyles.

They definitely won this week. Let’s see how they go in the coming weeks.


----------



## The Dude

The Wood said:


> You’re talking absolute shit. The Dude pointed out that DOTL is grouping all those who criticize together in order to dismiss a group instead of an individual—which is 100% what they were doing. It’s demonstrable. You then insulted The Dude. Which was very weird. But we have records.
> 
> The Dude is fantastic, by the way. God-tier. Instead of attacking him (I’m assuming him because of the name, so sorry, The Dude, if you aren’t and it’s just a great homage) because you don’t like when he signed up or how many posts he has, how about you deal with his incredibly savage points?
> 
> And on AEW winning head-to-heads. Sigh, that was always going to happen. You get that, right? That’s why NXT didn’t debut against them. It is why NXT didn’t load up its shows with main roster talent until later. More importantly, it’s why they didn’t pull the trigger on NXT talent appearing on the main roster until later.
> 
> Since then, things have changed. A lot of what AEW fans call a win have been recorded as a stone’s throw, which means they aren’t necessarily accurate. People know that ratings aren’t exact right? And no one in television thinks of them that way. AEW “winning” by 25k means absolutely nothing to anyone other than Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez and Taroostyles.
> 
> They definitely won this week. Let’s see how they go in the coming weeks.


Haha definitely a him.

The hand wringing over how many posts someone has is the silliest, most childish shit I’ve seen in a while.

And the people obsessing over number of posts then turn around and wonder why they’re laughed at and mocked. You bring it upon yourself.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> This dude person has to be a rejoiner. Not sure which one, but there are so many dickheads to choose from. On the list you go with your other alteregos.


I’m a dickhead because I think AEW’s creative is bad and is costing them viewers.

And people wonder why everyone thinks hardcore AEW fans are reclusive social rejects.


----------



## The Dude

Btw this is totally out of left field but I felt compelled to mention it.

If anyone has an opportunity to, consider donating to the animals currently suffering due to the bush fires in Australia. The devastation and death among some of the animal species in that country is staggering. Watching video of some of the helpless Koalas trying to escape the massive fires totally broke me down to an weeping mess.

Hope some ppl consider this. You can find a lot of Go Fund Me’s for this via google.


----------



## imthegame19

I would highly suggest every one puts these guys on ignore.

Xl1
Dark emperor
Kingfrass44
Wood
Fabi1982
Dude 

I put those guys on ignore and it's been so much better viewing experience today. With not being able to see anything they have written. If every one puts them in ignore then nobody see the garbage those trolls are posting. Then we can go back to actually having good discussions around here. 


Instead this AEW hater trolling crap with bogus theories and excuses from these clowns. If nobody can see the crap they try to spread around here. They will get bored and leave the AEW section. So I say everyone ignore these clowns and let the idiots only talk to each other.


----------



## The Dude

imthegame19 said:


> I would highly suggest every one puts these guys on ignore.
> 
> Xl1
> Dark emperor
> Kingfrass44
> Wood
> Fabi1982
> Dude
> 
> I put those guys on ignore and it's been so much better viewing experience today. With not being able to see anything they have written. If every one puts them in ignore then nobody see the garbage those trolls are posting. Then we can go back to actually having good discussions around here.
> 
> 
> Instead this AEW hater trolling crap with bogus theories and excuses from these clowns. If nobody can see the crap they try to spread around here. They will get bored and leave the AEW section. So I say everyone ignore these clowns and let the idiots only talk to each other.


Clearly you’re feeling so much better that you’re continuing to talk about people who you supposedly want to ignore.

How about being an adult and learning to interact with people who disagree with you? Just a thought.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Wrestling fans are a weird bunch.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You’re rushing to hasty generalizations in order to dismiss people without dealing with their actual arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> You just did it again. You deny a narrative and then group “the board” together.


Read what I said. I say nothing about what the board believes or doesn't believe. I talk about the weekly pessimistic narratives the board's mood is subjected to every week. Why would I generalize for the board an opinion I don't and others like me don't hold? That makes no sense if we're also a part of that same board.

And what you guys put forth aren't arguments, they are statements. Trivia.

TNA had better in the ratings. So what? What's your point?(I say this generally, not at you specifically).

And I'll ask again. What narrative? I'm not the one who comes in every week trying to sell this idea that AEW is doomed.


----------



## One Shed

Great rating, especially going up against a big bowl game and one that was watched by a ton of people in the South US.


----------



## Chan Hung

The XL 2 said:


> Lol at people celebrating a sub 1 mil rating with no NXT as competition


Wrong. "No NXT"? It was on the USA network the same night. Therefore, AEW did have competition, Course it was a weak ass replay, but for those saying it was unopposed, its a fact it was opposed. End of story.


----------



## The Wood

The Dude said:


> Btw this is totally out of left field but I felt compelled to mention it.
> 
> If anyone has an opportunity to, consider donating to the animals currently suffering due to the bush fires in Australia. The devastation and death among some of the animal species in that country is staggering. Watching video of some of the helpless Koalas trying to escape the massive fires totally broke me down to an weeping mess.
> 
> Hope some ppl consider this. You can find a lot of Go Fund Me’s for this via google.


Very good cause. Lots of animals and people losing their lives and homes at the moment. I saw a fundraiser that had raised almost $3,500,000. Please give if anyone has the time and means. 



DOTL said:


> Read what I said. I say nothing about what the board believes or doesn't believe. I say what I feel the board is subjected to every week. Why would I generalize for the board an opinion I don't and others like me don't hold? That makes no sense if we're also a part of that same board.


Let's read what you said: 



DOTL said:


> "We" is the message board. I'm just noting the difference in the nature of the complaining.


Hmm. Sounds like you're full of shit. 



DOTL said:


> And what you guys put forth aren't arguments, they are statements. Trivia.
> 
> TNA had better in the ratings. So what? What's your point?(I say this generally, not at you specifically).
> 
> And I'll ask again. What narrative? I'm not the one who comes in every week trying to sell this idea that AEW is doomed.


No, they're arguments. 

People don't even use the TNA thing as a serious argument. Stop trying to use that to deflect. People are just remarking at how funny/surreal/sad/disappointing/whatever it is that TNA's shitty, shitty fucking Impact was getting more than twice as many people watching (in many cases). Cord-cutting, blah, blah. Interest in wrestling is down. That's the issue. If people wanted to watch, they would. People act like they absolutely can't and trying to grow an audience is an obscene and insane idea. Defenders get bogged down in the time difference between 2012 and 2019 and completely miss the point that it's just an observation about how far wrestling has fallen even considering factors like that. 

We should be using Raw as a gauge for how AEW is doing, honestly. I maintain that point. They're both on cable that is in about as many homes. They have the same reach at the same time. There is no excuse for them not to be put in the same sphere. I said that before NXT was even announced as going to USA. There is no reason a good wrestling product can't beat a bad wrestling product on TV. I have never heard a good reason as to why they can't. The closest anyone gets is that they believe Raw being on the air for 27 years somehow means it's going to get more viewers, and that it takes time for a new hit to come along. I call bullshit on that. Shows with pedigrees get cancelled all the time, and shows without them get bigger ratings. The _now_ is important in TV, and AEW has about as much chance of winning eyeballs as any other show on television.

Your narrative is that you like to group critics into one type of person. That's not accurate.


----------



## wwetna1

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Meanwhile NXT was 29th last week going against nothing but Christmas Story.
> 
> AEW was 13th with their highest viewership since October on a football heavy day and NXT awards LOL.


You mean like the most watched Christmas Day nba games in years with Lakers Clippers on nba showcase day which Christmas has always been historically? Their tip was the time next started


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Let's read what you said:
> 
> Hmm. Sounds like you're full of shit.


Since you don't seem to get it, allow me to post the original, not just a single out of context reply in the line of discussion.



DOTL said:


> So we go from NXT is burying AEW to AEW isn't doing as well as a show 8 years ago.
> 
> I'd call that progress if I didn't know any better.


If I was talking about any one or even a group of complainers why would I say we? Why would I say that we're progressing? What's progressing? The condition of the board is, that's what. Allow me to fix this for you, so you can't put more words in my mouth.

*So the [pessimistic narrative the board is subjected to] goes from NXT is burying AEW to AEW isn't doing as well as a show 8 years ago.

I'd call that [an improvement of what the board has to subjected to] if I didn't know any better.*



> No, they're arguments.
> 
> People don't even use the TNA thing as a serious argument. Stop trying to use that to deflect. People are just remarking at how funny/surreal/sad/disappointing/whatever it is that TNA's shitty, shitty fucking Impact was getting more than twice as many people watching (in many cases). Cord-cutting, blah, blah. Interest in wrestling is down. That's the issue. If people wanted to watch, they would. People act like they absolutely can't and trying to grow an audience is an obscene and insane idea. Defenders get bogged down in the time difference between 2012 and 2019 and completely miss the point that it's just an observation about how far wrestling has fallen even considering factors like that.


There's literally no argument here. You try to push the narrative that AEW's rating is a sign of failure when it's well above what the even the network constitutes as a success. You also try to twist the point as if it was mean to be some global statement about wrestling. This makes no damn sense considering that if this was the case people wiuld compare AEW to WWE at that time, not TNA. No, the real point people and you by proxy are trying to make is that TNA did better than AEW in ratings and still flopped hard.

BTW If this isn't a serious argument why are are you trying hard to make it one?



> We should be using Raw as a gauge for how AEW is doing, honestly. I maintain that point. They're both on cable that is in about as many homes. They have the same reach at the same time. There is no excuse for them not to be put in the same sphere. I said that before NXT was even announced as going to USA. There is no reason a good wrestling product can't beat a bad wrestling product on TV. I have never heard a good reason as to why they can't. The closest anyone gets is that they believe Raw being on the air for 27 years somehow means it's going to get more viewers, and that it takes time for a new hit to come along. I call bullshit on that. Shows with pedigrees get cancelled all the time, and shows without them get bigger ratings. The _now_ is important in TV, and AEW has about as much chance of winning eyeballs as any other show on television.


Wait, I thought AEW's numbers were an example of how far wrestling is falling. Now you want to bring Raw's numbers in to illustrate how poorly AEW is doing. If you want to be honest, wouldn't you also use RAW's ceiling to illustrate how poorly wrestling is doing? Sounds like you just wanted to salvage that sucky point about TNA to stick it to AEW.

Anyway. You make a big mistake in assuming just because something is on TV it has the same pool of viewers as other shows. Every show, however, targets certain audiences. Two shows on the same channel can target two different demos. Even if those shows are the same genre, they can incidentally target different demos due to their content.

WWE is a recognizable brand, one that people have been watching for decades to the point that people almost think "WWE" is synonymous with wrestling . AEW just started and is trying to build its divisions and still get people over.It's as simple as that. And true, new shows can be hits. But here's the thing. As far as TNT is concerned AEW is a hit, whether you like it or not.

And please. All people talk about on here AEW needing to grow the audience. We just know that AEW has to mature before that can be done. Expecting it to beat WWE right out the gate is a purposefully stupid point to make just to prop the young company as a failure.



> Your narrative is that you like to group critics into one type of person. That's not accurate.


No this is the narrative you attributed to a post you either didn't read or didn't understand. My real "narrative" as far as you're concerned, the narrative you don't like, is that I'm not willing to buy your idea that AEW is somehow doomed. And that's not a narrative. It's just a position.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Since you don't seem to get it, allow me to post the original, not just a single out of context reply in the line of discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> If I was talking about any one or even a group of complainers why would I say we? Why would I say that we're progressing? What's progressing? The condition of the board is, that's what. Allow me to fix this for you, so you can't put more words in my mouth.
> 
> *So the [pessimistic narrative the board is subjected to] goes from NXT is burying AEW to AEW isn't doing as well as a show 8 years ago.
> 
> I'd call that [an improvement of what the board has to subjected to] if I didn't know any better.*




Lol, you are still grouping all the criticisms together like they come from a unified source. That is what you were called out on and you're still fucking doing it. There isn't ONE pessimistic narrative, DOLT. You have done that for your own convenience. That's what we're telling you. 



DOTL said:


> There's literally no argument here. You try to push the narrative that AEW's rating is a sign of failure when it's well above what the even the network constitutes as a success. You also try to twist the point as if it was mean to be some global statement about wrestling. This makes no damn sense considering that if this was the case people wiuld compare AEW to WWE at that time, not TNA. No, the real point people and you by proxy are trying to make is that TNA did better than AEW in ratings and still flopped hard.


Well, we don't actually know whether or not the network constitutes it a success. Wrestling is a tricky animal like that. Is it more successful than what would have been in a timeslot? Sure. Is it above the network average? No. Do we know that they are happy with the ad revenue? No. Do we know what network executives expected? No. We have some weird and random, weirdly extrapolated quote from Dave Meltzer suggesting 500k was "considered okay." We don't really know what that means, who it came from, what their position is, whether they were being sarcastic or whatever. A lot of people try to speak the mind of TNT in this. It's a lot more complicated than people make out. 

Their rating is disappointing for wrestling. It's the #3 or 4 wrestling program in the US at the moment, and its a long way between #2 and #1. We _don't_ really know what that means. We can call that a success compared to some things, but not a success compared to others. It depends on context. It's not clear-cut until you put it into context. I'm not thrilled with those numbers, but I wouldn't call them a "failure" unless TNT wanted more out of them. 

Um, if we were going to compare AEW now to WWE at the time, they look even worse, lol. 



DOTL said:


> BTW If this isn't a serious argument why are are you trying hard to make it one?


I'm not. You are. 



DOTL said:


> Wait, I thought AEW's numbers were an example of how far wrestling is falling. Now you want to bring Raw's numbers in to illustrate how poorly AEW is doing. If you want to be honest, wouldn't you also use RAW's ceiling to illustrate how poorly wrestling is doing? Sounds like you just wanted to salvage that sucky point about TNA to stick it to AEW.


Yeah, I would use Raw's ratings to make a point about how poorly wrestling is doing. Why can't AEW apologists get it through their heads that just because you don't like AEW it doesn't mean you like WWE or think they are doing outstanding either? That doesn't change the crux of the point. 



DOTL said:


> Anyway. You make a big mistake in assuming just because something is on TV it has the same pool of viewers as other shows. Every show, however, targets certain audiences. Two shows on the same channel can target two different demos. Even if those shows are the same genre, they can incidentally target different demos due to their content.


Yes, and AEW gets fewer viewers because they don't appeal to large groups of fans. Thanks for making my point. 



DOTL said:


> WWE is a recognizable brand, one that people have been watching for decades to the point that people almost think "WWE" is synonymous with wrestling . AEW just started and is trying to build its divisions and still get people over.It's as simple as that. And true, new shows can be hits. But here's the thing. As far as TNT is concerned AEW is a hit, whether you like it or not.


A lot of people don't even know what WWE is now. They still call it "WWF." That's when it was cool. But thanks for making the same tired old point as every out-their-ass defender does. Somehow being on TV forever means you're always going to have the best ratings. This is bullshit.

Citation needed for that AEW point. I'm not even saying that they don't. I'm just saying that's something people assume. 



DOTL said:


> And please. All people talk about on here AEW needing to grow the audience. We just know that AEW has to mature before that can be done. Expecting it to beat WWE right out the gate is a purposefully stupid point to make just to prop the young company as a failure.


Dave Meltzer himself would disagree with you. You don't need to "mature." Wtf? What does that even mean? You have one good chance to make a first impression. 



DOTL said:


> No this is the narrative you attributed to a post you either didn't read or didn't understand. My real "narrative" as far as you're concerned, the narrative you don't like, is that I'm not willing to buy your idea that AEW is somehow doomed. And that's not a narrative. It's just a position.


No, you want to paint all critics with the same brush. It's easier to deal with. I don't think AEW is doomed. I think their chances of displacing WWE and getting a huge TV rights deal might be. I don't know how interested the Khans are past that. We'll see.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Damn, did WWE put Smackdown in Memphis tickets on sale before or after AEW did next weeks Dynamite?

Either typical dick move by Vince OR really poor planning by AEW.


----------



## The Wood

Running in the same markets is a classic Vince strategy, but it wouldn't surprise me if AEW didn't pay attention either.


----------



## Garty

Can someone please put The Wood and/or The Dude out of their misery please? I'd even go as far to say that they might be the same person. They have the same "I'm always right" attitude, complain about the same things, congratulate each other on said things, post in the same long-form style like they're writing an essay, one guy asks for all of us to help Australia while the other guy is from Australia.

Dun dun dun... Mystery solved? I'd like to know.

*EDIT *Hey everyone, TAC41 is back. Where have you been? You must have so many positive things to say, right?


----------



## TAC41

They couldn’t even break a million again with no competition from NXT. I can’t believe people are still defending these ratings, lmao. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CMPunkRock316

https://www.wrestlingforum.com/thre...thread-2-oh-no-let’s-go.2409862/post-78115829



> CMPunkRock316 said:
> Meanwhile NXT was 29th last week going against nothing but Christmas Story.
> 
> AEW was 13th with their highest viewership since October on a football heavy day and NXT awards LOL.


You are insane if you don’t think Christmas Day is a harder day than New Year’s. Why do you think the college games are held on New Year’s and not Christmas?

*It is a much better day for TV viewership New Years vs Christmas. However USA still aired a NXT best of that got over 500K. There were lots of College Football games with millions of people watching. NXT could not sniff that viewership number or the demo that AEW did Weds with no wrestling on TNT on Christmas.*


----------



## qntntgood

Garty said:


> WOW! Another new member! 7 posts, 6 of them shitting on AEW and 1 praising the Raw "wedding".
> 
> Whomever is responsible for advertising this new, small and unknown website, you should be given a huge pay raise. The surge in new users, especially in the AEW forums, has drastically gone up through your hard work. It's quite amazing really.


There are shills,shilling for the wwe and nxt or whatever organizations they are a fan of or work for.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Very good cause. Lots of animals and people losing their lives and homes at the moment. I saw a fundraiser that had raised almost $3,500,000. Please give if anyone has the time and means.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's read what you said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Sounds like you're full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they're arguments.
> 
> People don't even use the TNA thing as a serious argument. Stop trying to use that to deflect. People are just remarking at how funny/surreal/sad/disappointing/whatever it is that TNA's shitty, shitty fucking Impact was getting more than twice as many people watching (in many cases). Cord-cutting, blah, blah. Interest in wrestling is down. That's the issue. If people wanted to watch, they would. People act like they absolutely can't and trying to grow an audience is an obscene and insane idea. Defenders get bogged down in the time difference between 2012 and 2019 and completely miss the point that it's just an observation about how far wrestling has fallen even considering factors like that.
> 
> We should be using Raw as a gauge for how AEW is doing, honestly. I maintain that point. They're both on cable that is in about as many homes. They have the same reach at the same time. There is no excuse for them not to be put in the same sphere. I said that before NXT was even announced as going to USA. There is no reason a good wrestling product can't beat a bad wrestling product on TV. I have never heard a good reason as to why they can't. The closest anyone gets is that they believe Raw being on the air for 27 years somehow means it's going to get more viewers, and that it takes time for a new hit to come along. I call bullshit on that. Shows with pedigrees get cancelled all the time, and shows without them get bigger ratings. The _now_ is important in TV, and AEW has about as much chance of winning eyeballs as any other show on television.
> 
> Your narrative is that you like to group critics into one type of person. That's not accurate.


I won’t pretend that your argument doesn’t have some merits to it, but the one thing I will say about viewing AEW vs Raw’s ratings is that the WWE machine killing every other promotion has given the world this belief of “don’t get invested, it’s only a matter of time before Vince forces them off air”.

This is just an opinion, but WCW and TNA’s greatest sins were not securing the necessary funding to keep them viewed as a viable alternative. Each company clearly had loyal fan bases, but when things tightened with the networks and pocket books began closing, they each had to fold up and wave the white flag.

Look at what so many detractors’ biggest argument against AEW is: Tony Khan will get bored and Shahid will close shop, and the money won’t be there.

That line of thinking is something that history, and the Vince McMahon/WWE machine, have reinforced over two decades of monopolizing the US market.

I forget who had the discussion with me about given enough time, AEW can work out the kinks (the poster didn’t believe AEW had the kind of time necessary), but it was a poignant one: given enough time, this thing can grow and gain STABILITY in the eyes of fans, wrestlers, and network execs. But as of right now, it is still largely a major guessing game.

If they make it to Year 5 with the same levels of production value, funding and maybe even grow in that department, then I think you will see the tides change. That doesn’t mean they will ever thwart the WWE, but they may well become a true competitor.


----------



## imthegame19

Garty said:


> Can someone please put The Wood and/or The Dude out of their misery please? I'd even go as far to say that they might be the same person. They have the same "I'm always right" attitude, complain about the same things, congratulate each other on said things, post in the same long-form style like they're writing an essay, one guy asks for all of us to help Australia while the other guy is from Australia.
> 
> Dun dun dun... Mystery solved? I'd like to know.
> 
> *EDIT *Hey everyone, TAC41 is back. Where have you been? You must have so many positive things to say, right?


Oh yay I forgot about this troll. Time to add him to ignore list.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Well, we don't actually know whether or not the network constitutes it a success. Wrestling is a tricky animal like that. Is it more successful than what would have been in a timeslot? Sure. Is it above the network average? No. Do we know that they are happy with the ad revenue? No. Do we know what network executives expected? No. We have some weird and random, weirdly extrapolated quote from Dave Meltzer suggesting 500k was "considered okay." We don't really know what that means, who it came from, what their position is, whether they were being sarcastic or whatever. A lot of people try to speak the mind of TNT in this. It's a lot more complicated than people make out.
> 
> Their rating is disappointing for wrestling. It's the #3 or 4 wrestling program in the US at the moment, and its a long way between #2 and #1. We _don't_ really know what that means. We can call that a success compared to some things, but not a success compared to others. It depends on context. It's not clear-cut until you put it into context. I'm not thrilled with those numbers, but I wouldn't call them a "failure" unless TNT wanted more out of them.
> 
> Um, if we were going to compare AEW now to WWE at the time, they look even worse, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not. You are.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I would use Raw's ratings to make a point about how poorly wrestling is doing. Why can't AEW apologists get it through their heads that just because you don't like AEW it doesn't mean you like WWE or think they are doing outstanding either? That doesn't change the crux of the point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and AEW gets fewer viewers because they don't appeal to large groups of fans. Thanks for making my point.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people don't even know what WWE is now. They still call it "WWF." That's when it was cool. But thanks for making the same tired old point as every out-their-ass defender does. Somehow being on TV forever means you're always going to have the best ratings. This is bullshit.
> 
> Citation needed for that AEW point. I'm not even saying that they don't. I'm just saying that's something people assume.
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Meltzer himself would disagree with you. You don't need to "mature." Wtf? What does that even mean? You have one good chance to make a first impression.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you want to paint all critics with the same brush. It's easier to deal with. I don't think AEW is doomed. I think their chances of displacing WWE and getting a huge TV rights deal might be. I don't know how interested the Khans are past that. We'll see.


I already wrote a long post on something else, so I'm going to make this quick. 

1. I explained what I wrote. I even put in brackets. You can't accept it, but must ride this point because it all you got. So I'll ask this question. Which critics? I've proven I'd argue your butt, specifically, point for point on TWO fronts, writing literally thousands of words, taking hours of my time. You're using a facetious comment, a comment about criticism in general and not any individual critic or group of people for that matter, as a point of contention to play the victim in order to give your weak arguments more credibility. It's as simple as that. If you feel I'm putting everyone in the same basket with an off-handed, tongue in cheek remark about the changing winds of the dominant criticisms in this board. I got one thing to say.

Ok.

(I'm assuming the Dolt was an Autocorrect result. Otherwise, you're corny as hell)

2. Now you want to be all precise with "what we know and don't know." If Meltzer said 900 was the target, do you in all honesty think you'd make the same point? I doubt it. You're just making room in the reports so you can have a negative spin on anything they do. 

And what does "disappointing for wrestling" mean in this debate? At first you say the TNT report is vague, but come up with this meaningless tripe. Is there a fairy that rates financial success based on genre categories I don't know about?

3. Pointless comment.

4. I don't care if you like WWE or not. I'm saying that you're trying to spin something that has crap all to do with TNA comparisons to AEW, and misrepresent as a valid point of criticism. Ok, wrestling has a low ceiling. What the heck does that have to do with AEW which hasn't even reached that ceiling yet?



4. No one's arguing that they couldn't do better. The point is, your point about the audience being built in just because other shows of other levels of potential do well exist isn't even true and bordering on naive. 

5. Ever consider that there's validity to the point "This is bullshit" isn't evidence. It's barely even conjecture. Usually you'd want to follow that up with something substantial.

Anyway, if it isn't brand recognition, what intrinsic about Raw and SD brings in the eyes (relatively speaking)? What's plausible?

6. IS THERE A POINT NXT AND AEW COULD BE CANCELED, WHO HAS MORE TO LOSE, WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO THE BUSINESS IF IT HAPPENED AND MORE | PWInsider.com

7. Now where are your citations if you can indeed find one for random nonconstructive noise?

8. Mature means not be green anymore. Means come into your own. Means put on a more professional production. Means enter into your potential. Please stop me when this obvious statement becomes more obvious than your reaching.

9. Ok. . .

10. Refer to 1#


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> I would highly suggest every one puts these guys on ignore.
> 
> Xl1
> Dark emperor
> Kingfrass44
> Wood
> Fabi1982
> Dude
> 
> I put those guys on ignore and it's been so much better viewing experience today. With not being able to see anything they have written. If every one puts them in ignore then nobody see the garbage those trolls are posting. Then we can go back to actually having good discussions around here.
> 
> 
> Instead this AEW hater trolling crap with bogus theories and excuses from these clowns. If nobody can see the crap they try to spread around here. They will get bored and leave the AEW section. So I say everyone ignore these clowns and let the idiots only talk to each other.


You may have ignored them but you've spoken about ignoring them a lot today. You may not see their posts but they're obviously living rent free in your mind and it's getting weird at this point


----------



## imthegame19

Cult03 said:


> You may have ignored them but you've spoken about ignoring them a lot today. You may not see their posts but they're obviously living rent free in your mind and it's getting weird at this point


What a stupid post. I saw other people arguing with ghost. So I was trying to give good advice just to ignore these people.


----------



## Gh0stFace

The Wood said:


> Cable is still in millions upon millions of homes. It is still possible to get ratings above 1 and 2 million. People use the gentrification of cable and the spread of viewership and alternative means of consuming content to justify why people choose not to like their product.
> 
> There is more competition, but that doesn’t justify running off your fan-base and them choosing to watch or do other things.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, actually they kind of can. They’re pretty good at building stuff. They can also offer dream matches from the main roster. I mean, it would be stupid to do it every week, but they’ve got a much deeper pool than AEW who have to load their shows up.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, they promoted the shit out of this. Almost every segment was advertised. Moxley, Women’s Title, Elite tag, Dustin/Sammy, the idea of “Homecoming.” This was a heavy show.
> 
> 
> 
> They had a rerun, basically. Recaps and some goofy award shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Cody/Darby is a rematch from a draw on a special. Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, in a way, they didn’t.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s irrelevant when discussing the ratings. That sort of viewership doesn’t factor into their TV business at all.
> 
> 
> 
> You’re rushing to hasty generalizations in order to dismiss people without dealing with their actual arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> This shit again. Anyone who listens to this guy on this subject is going down a serious windy path. He literally says that nothing else matters other than the key demo. In 2020. He doesn’t say “most important,” which is something I know many TV scholars and advertisers would debate with the ever-changing nature of the medium, but that they are the only thing. Like this is still the late 90’s.
> 
> 
> 
> People have to sign up to a forum at some point. If the discussion is exciting enough, why not join? I don’t know or care when you signed up, but you must have been a troll then, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck thinks interest = like? I have an interest in World War II—that must mean I love people dying. This might just be the most ridiculous take I’ve seen on these forums ever.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he wasn’t. He called you, specifically, out on being delusional. Which you are, since you targeted The Dude for a post where he called out DOTL in exactly what DOTL was doing.
> 
> 
> 
> There are literally people in here talking about blocking people and only seeing positive feedback. I mean, you can disagree whether echo chambers are a good thing or not (I personally don’t think people should have to expose themselves to everything), but that is what is meant by an echo chamber. There are actually AEW fans in here doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I think it’s because you tried to pick a fight with someone for calling a potato a potato.
> 
> 
> You are insane if you don’t think Christmas Day is a harder day than New Year’s. Why do you think the college games are held on New Year’s and not Christmas?
> 
> 
> 
> You just did it again. You deny a narrative and then group “the board” together.


Do you always sound like a little bitch when you cry?


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> What a stupid post. I saw other people arguing with ghost. So I was trying to give good advice just to ignore these people.


Yet all of your posts regarding ignoring everyone have been peak genius level posts. You're getting boring, maybe I'll ignore you first.


----------



## RBrooks

Could somebody please post quarter hour ratings? I can't find them in these 100 pages of stupid bickering.


----------



## rbl85

RBrooks said:


> Could somebody please post quarter hour ratings? I can't find them in these 100 pages of stupid bickering.


Do it when we have them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Haha I know I'm loving the advice you gave me. I put like 5 people on ignore and all I see is positive comments. Or people replying to nobody. Just based off reading the replies. The trolls and haters around here can sure come up with some ridiculous excuses haha.


Reading the replies and guessing what the haters said is the most fun


----------



## fabi1982

Cult03 said:


> You may have ignored them but you've spoken about ignoring them a lot today. You may not see their posts but they're obviously living rent free in your mind and it's getting weird at this point


And it makes me sad seeing me on that list. I always think I am better than the others, but is seems like I am just another troll  Maybe I‘m moving into his head fulltime and save me 2.5k a month on my usual rent.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Close to a million viewers; I wonder if some of these people usually watch via DVR and choose to watch NXT live.

It could signify certain things:
-DVR viewers simply sift through stuff they don’t like. If AEW could understand when this happens and what they sift through, it’ll help them a lot.
- It could also mean that AEWs fan base is more consistent than we thought. But why ~250k people are choosing to DVR AEW and watch NXT live, AEW need to find out. NXT has been on fire lately. 

I’ve said before that feedback sessions with fans/potential fans will help a lot. And actually it will show that AEW listen to their fans.


----------



## Derek30

So much goal post shifting in this thread on both sides of the arguments. Really entertaining stuff people


----------



## Cult03

It's so easy to download or live stream wrestling these days. Being an Aussie I really couldn't care less about ratings. Especially ratings groups that are impossible to gauge such as age. My grandparents used to have Foxtel, the only place I could watch wrestling when I was about 6-12 and I would watch it there every week. This would count as the 50+ age range, even though it was me watching it, right? How is it possible to take ratings seriously when there's way too many variables?


----------



## outsiders96

Kind of think aew could probably get over a million consistently if nxt was not opposing them maybe pull about what tna use too pull. Seems like there's that amount of people who will watch any wrestling program there is but just speculation


----------



## The Dude

Cult03 said:


> Yet all of your posts regarding ignoring everyone have been peak genius level posts. You're getting boring, maybe I'll ignore you first.


Just make sure you keep talking about him after you block him. That’s what normal ppl do?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

outsiders96 said:


> Kind of think aew could probably get over a million consistently if nxt was not opposing them maybe pull about what tna use too pull. Seems like there's that amount of people who will watch any wrestling program there is but just speculation


It’s all good saying AEW could do this unopposed but AEW need to question why NXT are able to steal that portion of fans. NXTs product has been fantastic lately.


----------



## The Dude

optikk sucks said:


> It’s all good saying AEW could do this unopposed but AEW need to question why NXT are able to steal that portion of fans. NXTs product has been fantastic lately.


NXT taking some of the audience still doesn’t explain why a lot of the audience who initially watched have also left.

NXT and AEW’s combined average audience right now is close to what AEW did ALONE on their debut.

Those people left because they didn’t feel like it was worth watching


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> It’s all good saying AEW could do this unopposed but AEW need to question *why NXT are able to steal that portion of fans*. NXTs product has been fantastic lately.


I don't think NXT stole a portion of AEW of fans.
People who only watched RAW or SD probably discovered NXT because of Survivor Series and decided to watch NXT after SS.


----------



## bdon

People stopped watching, because they didn’t know anyone other than Jericho, maybe Moxley. They’d probably my HEARD of Cody. The rest are unknowns to the fanbase they’re trying to attract: the lapsed fans.

So, you have a generation of wrestling fans conditioned to see a bunch of “don’t know him, who the fuck is this guy!?”, and they automatically assume X-Division and how it’ll be a waste of time to get emotionally invested.

With enough time, those guys become names that most wrestling fans know and respect. Those same fans who tuned out likely keep an eye on things via YouTube or results or the like.

Question is, does AEW have enough time for all of that to happen before those fans’ worst fears come to fruition, and we go back to a WWE monopoly with AEW going the way of WCW and TNA?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> I don't think NXT stole a portion of AEW of fans.
> People who only watched RAW or SD probably discovered NXT because of Survivor Series and decided to watch NXT after SS.


NXT ratings have been consistent prior to survivor series.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> NXT ratings have been consistent prior to survivor series.


When i say "because of SS" i mean the build up to SS.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> When i say "because of SS" i mean the build up to SS.


Fair enough. The true test is next week and I hope AEW has done enough.


----------



## Jedah

Great rating. Now let's hope they can keep that momentum going. This show was a big improvement over the past month or so.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Bash at the Beach on the 15th, and the JeriCruise on the 22nd, set this up to be a big rebound month for AEW. Hope they nail all of the shows.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> People stopped watching, because they didn’t know anyone other than Jericho, maybe Moxley. They’d probably my HEARD of Cody. The rest are unknowns to the fanbase they’re trying to attract: the lapsed fans.
> 
> So, you have a generation of wrestling fans conditioned to see a bunch of “don’t know him, who the fuck is this guy!?”, and they automatically assume X-Division and how it’ll be a waste of time to get emotionally invested.
> 
> With enough time, those guys become names that most wrestling fans know and respect. Those same fans who tuned out likely keep an eye on things via YouTube or results or the like.
> 
> Question is, does AEW have enough time for all of that to happen before those fans’ worst fears come to fruition, and we go back to a WWE monopoly with AEW going the way of WCW and TNA?


Yeah that's why we can't expect them to get back to that 1.4 rating in near future. A lot of casual wrestling watched AEW for first time that night. To see if CM Punk and other big stars were gonna show up. When they saw a few stars they knew and bunch of guys they never heard of. Well those fans never came back.


That's why I think coming in near 1 million viewers is what they should be shooting for until they start to build that audience. Unfortunately they've only done 950,000 to million plus viewers 5 of 7 since week 1. I think they really need to try to make every week feel like must see tv.


It seems like around 1.5 to 1.7 million fans have settled in watching wrestling on Wednesday night. With whoever having the better must see show since Survivor Series has won the rating. It's time for AEW to step up their game and make their tv matches feel like bigger deal. Like this week Omega/Page vs Private Party, Dustin/Cody vs Lucha Bros, Statlander vs Riho, Guevara vs Daniels with Moxley giving his answer is solid card. But it really needs one more big match on the show.


----------



## outsiders96

A new show is gonna have some extra viewers just because it's new I would figure at the very start, But they do need too improve and I think they need bigger wrestlers


----------



## The Dude

outsiders96 said:


> A new show is gonna have some extra viewers just because it's new I would figure at the very start, But they do need too improve and I think they need bigger wrestlers


Nitro and Raw were new at one point.

they didn’t lose a bunch of their fanbase in 3 months....


----------



## bdon

The Dude said:


> Nitro and Raw were new at one point.
> 
> they didn’t lose a bunch of their fanbase in 3 months....


No, they had wrestlers everyone knew from their previous TV shows.

You’re a sad, sad man. I can’t imagine disliking something so much, as you seem to dislike AEW, and finding time and effort to discuss it as often as you do.

How old are you?


----------



## The Dude

bdon said:


> No, they had wrestlers everyone knew from their previous TV shows.
> 
> You’re a sad, sad man. I can’t imagine disliking something so much, as you seem to dislike AEW, and finding time and effort to discuss it as often as you do.
> 
> How old are you?


AEW fanboy #34 clearly has had his feelings shattered. How old are you? Can’t be older than 12 since I can’t imagine a real adult meltdown down because someone criticized their fav rasslin promotion. 

Tell me, if I disliked AEW as much as you say why did spend time to write an extensive post about what they could do to improve their situation? Maybe I just want them to get better and live up to what they claim they want to be.


----------



## bdon

The Dude said:


> AEW fanboy #34 clearly has had his feelings shattered. How old are you? Can’t be older than 12 since I can’t imagine a real adult meltdown down because someone criticized their fav rasslin promotion.
> 
> Tell me, if I disliked AEW as much as you say why did spend time to write an extensive post about what they could do to improve their situation? Maybe I just want them to get better and live up to what they claim they want to be.


No, I get criticizing it. I do the same.

It’s the tone and vitriol you have in seemingly every post. For me, I criticize and rarely feel the need to give out gold stars for what they do right, but I’m not going to take pleasure in watching their demise. I’m not going to enjoy mocking them or shitting on their fans.

And that’s why I asked your age. That you didn’t answer suggests you’re on the younger side. I wasn’t going to mock your age or anything. I was curious, because I was trying to gauge if maybe the differing ways of critiquing the product might just be a generational thing.


----------



## The Dude

bdon said:


> No, I get criticizing it. I do the same.
> 
> It’s the tone and vitriol you have in seemingly every post. For me, I criticize and rarely feel the need to give out gold stars for what they do right, but I’m not going to take pleasure in watching their demise. I’m not going to enjoy mocking them or shitting on their fans.
> 
> And that’s why I asked your age. That you didn’t answer suggests you’re on the younger side. I wasn’t going to mock your age or anything. I was curious, because I was trying to gauge if maybe the differing ways of critiquing the product might just be a generational thing.


I’m 33. But age has nothing to do with it.

When those in charge of a company arrogantly decide they’re going to dismiss the majority of the wrestling audience and cater to the small minority instead, when they arrogantly claim that “we don’t need writers, the wrestlers will be writers” because of their over inflated egos, they deserve to be mocked when the results of their decisions come home to roost. Especially after they were warned by a whole host of people leading up to their launch.

And their spoiled fanbase who think the wrestling business is there to solely please their own personal tastes and who relentlessly attack the majority of fans who want storylines and soap opera to complement the in ring action, they also deserve to be mocked.

And again, if I just wanted to take pleasure and joy in their demise, why would I take the time to make a constructive post on how they could get better?


----------



## bdon

The Dude said:


> I’m 33. But age has nothing to do with it.
> 
> When those in charge of a company arrogantly decide they’re going to dismiss the majority of the wrestling audience and cater to the small minority instead, when they arrogantly claim that “we don’t need writers, the wrestlers will be writers” because of their over inflated egos, they deserve to be mocked when the results of their decisions come home to roost. Especially after they were warned by a whole host of people leading up to their launch.
> 
> And their spoiled fanbase who think the wrestling business is there to solely please their own personal tastes and who relentlessly attack the majority of fans who want storylines and soap opera to complement the in ring action, they also deserve to be mocked.
> 
> And again, if I just wanted to take pleasure and joy in their demise, why would I take the time to make a constructive post on how they could get better?


So, you’re a couple of years younger than me. Cool.

Why let it bother you so much, though? It ain’t that important.

Yeah, Cody is arrogant as fuck, the Bucks want their just due, and Kenny Omega got taken for a ride by his friends which his friends are probably more important to him than anything else.

Yeah, the AEW super fans are annoying and super defensive of their product towards any criticism as I have been lumped into the hater category as well.

But it ain’t that important, dude. Enjoy what you can of it and fuck the fans. If the show overall is a disappointment, then you should change the channel or read a book, play on your phone, or whatever else while waiting for the stuff that you do enjoy. I sometimes do that while my son watches. Hell, I sometimes do it while he’s showering, because I refuse to not watch and risk being a part of the crowd that left before they had enough time to correct the product.

I know I am but one potential rating, but I refuse to not have my tv on that channel. I was in my teenage years with more shit to do than watch wrestling, and WCW slipped. It ain’t my fault, but I refuse to not do my part this time and prevent Vince’s monopoly. So, I’ll stick through the garbage, voice my displeasure online without the mocking of it that comes off like nothing more than childish, baseless hate from a WWE fanboy.

And if you say you’re more than that, then I believe you. Just letting you know it looks. Hopefully you can take some of my advice and not let that shit get to you so much, man.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Dude said:


> I’m 33. But age has nothing to do with it.
> 
> When those in charge of a company arrogantly decide they’re going to dismiss the majority of the wrestling audience and cater to the small minority instead, when they arrogantly claim that “we don’t need writers, the wrestlers will be writers” because of their over inflated egos, they deserve to be mocked when the results of their decisions come home to roost. Especially after they were warned by a whole host of people leading up to their launch.
> 
> And their spoiled fanbase who think the wrestling business is there to solely please their own personal tastes and who relentlessly attack the majority of fans who want storylines and soap opera to complement the in ring action, they also deserve to be mocked.
> 
> And again, if I just wanted to take pleasure and joy in their demise, why would I take the time to make a constructive post on how they could get better?


You see my guy, you are generalising and wrongly stating what the AEW fanbase are looking for and that’s why you are considered as an idiot and nobody takes your posts seriously. you’re just as dumb and clueless as this supposed supposed spoilt and minority fan base. 

AEW fans want an alternate to WWE. 
AEW fans do want storylines and drama - myself included.

but it’s all good. You do you. Write very long essays on something you don’t really care about.Maybe instead, show your displeasure with your wallet.


----------



## The Dude

optikk sucks said:


> You see my guy, you are generalising and wrongly stating what the AEW fanbase are looking for and that’s why you are considered as an idiot and nobody takes your posts seriously. you’re just as dumb and clueless as this supposed supposed spoilt and minority fan base.
> 
> AEW fans want an alternate to WWE.
> AEW fans do want storylines and drama - myself included.
> 
> but it’s all good. You do you. Write very long essays on something you don’t really care about.Maybe instead, show your displeasure with your wallet.


The irony of of someone who can’t even spell “spoiled” calling someone else dumb ?.

The hardcore AEW fanbase is completely obsessed with workrate and everyone knows that. Someone just posted their review of last week’s show in the other thread and 80% of the review was reviewing how good the work and the spots were. FFS. 

But feel free to live in La La Land and pretend that’s not the case.


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> So, you’re a couple of years younger than me. Cool.
> 
> Why let it bother you so much, though? It ain’t that important.
> 
> Yeah, Cody is arrogant as fuck, the Bucks want their just due, and Kenny Omega got taken for a ride by his friends which his friends are probably more important to him than anything else.
> 
> Yeah, the AEW super fans are annoying and super defensive of their product towards any criticism as I have been lumped into the hater category as well.
> 
> But it ain’t that important, dude. Enjoy what you can of it and fuck the fans. If the show overall is a disappointment, then you should change the channel or read a book, play on your phone, or whatever else while waiting for the stuff that you do enjoy. I sometimes do that while my son watches. Hell, I sometimes do it while he’s showering, because I refuse to not watch and risk being a part of the crowd that left before they had enough time to correct the product.
> 
> I know I am but one potential rating, but I refuse to not have my tv on that channel. I was in my teenage years with more shit to do than watch wrestling, and WCW slipped. It ain’t my fault, but I refuse to not do my part this time and prevent Vince’s monopoly. So, I’ll stick through the garbage, voice my displeasure online without the mocking of it that comes off like nothing more than childish, baseless hate from a WWE fanboy.
> 
> And if you say you’re more than that, then I believe you. Just letting you know it looks. Hopefully you can take some of my advice and not let that shit get to you so much, man.


I respect this.

My thing is, rabid AEW hate done in bad faith hurts criticism because it makes people who want the product to be good very defensive. I defend AEW not because I think it's be reproach, but because I want credible criticism. I want the kind of criticism that will help it get better.


----------



## The Dude

DOTL said:


> I respect this.
> 
> My thing is, rabid AEW hate done in bad faith hurts criticism because it makes people who want the product to be good very defensive. I defend AEW not because I think it's be reproach, but because I want credible criticism. I want the kind of criticism that will help it get better.


Super fair. And I’ve done credible criticism. I’ve done a ton of it. But the idea that they’re beyond mocking on the stuff that they’re stubbornly CHOOSING to do wrong is silly. Vince Russo has been mercilessly terrorized for stuff he’s done for 20 years but all of a sudden it’a “not fair” when it comes to these guys? The only reason it’s
being painted as not fair is because there is a built in bias in the IWC for the type of product they are presenting.

So yes, it’s perfectly fine to give meaningful constructive criticism and ALSO hit them super, super hard on some of the idiotic things they’re doing. And by the way, some of those things aren’t because these guys are dumb....it’s because they’re stubbornly married to an ideology designed to cater to their little fan club and they choose to dismiss everyone else.

Also, Bdon, I appreciate your post and will respond to it a little bit later as there was a lot to cover there.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Can someone please put The Wood and/or The Dude out of their misery please? I'd even go as far to say that they might be the same person. They have the same "I'm always right" attitude, complain about the same things, congratulate each other on said things, post in the same long-form style like they're writing an essay, one guy asks for all of us to help Australia while the other guy is from Australia.
> 
> Dun dun dun... Mystery solved? I'd like to know.
> 
> *EDIT *Hey everyone, TAC41 is back. Where have you been? You must have so many positive things to say, right?


It’s almost like people with good ideas appreciate them in other people. How could any two people who don’t love AEW think alike? And holy shit, a fucking ecological disaster costing many their lives and homes — must be the same guy! Can’t be that some people either live in the same country or _watch the fucking news_.

Imagine people who raise good points sounding like they are right. What a bizarre fucking coincidence. 



CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!
> 
> 
> You are insane if you don’t think Christmas Day is a harder day than New Year’s. Why do you think the college games are held on New Year’s and not Christmas?
> 
> *It is a much better day for TV viewership New Years vs Christmas. However USA still aired a NXT best of that got over 500K. There were lots of College Football games with millions of people watching. NXT could not sniff that viewership number or the demo that AEW did Weds with no wrestling on TNT on Christmas.*


You could have stopped at the first sentence.



qntntgood said:


> There are shills,shilling for the wwe and nxt or whatever organizations they are a fan of or work for.


Yes, because WWE pays people to go around saying they suck and just to make very valid points about the reality of AEW. It’s more likely that Meltzer is on the take. 



bdon said:


> I won’t pretend that your argument doesn’t have some merits to it, but the one thing I will say about viewing AEW vs Raw’s ratings is that the WWE machine killing every other promotion has given the world this belief of “don’t get invested, it’s only a matter of time before Vince forces them off air”.
> 
> This is just an opinion, but WCW and TNA’s greatest sins were not securing the necessary funding to keep them viewed as a viable alternative. Each company clearly had loyal fan bases, but when things tightened with the networks and pocket books began closing, they each had to fold up and wave the white flag.
> 
> Look at what so many detractors’ biggest argument against AEW is: Tony Khan will get bored and Shahid will close shop, and the money won’t be there.
> 
> That line of thinking is something that history, and the Vince McMahon/WWE machine, have reinforced over two decades of monopolizing the US market.
> 
> I forget who had the discussion with me about given enough time, AEW can work out the kinks (the poster didn’t believe AEW had the kind of time necessary), but it was a poignant one: given enough time, this thing can grow and gain STABILITY in the eyes of fans, wrestlers, and network execs. But as of right now, it is still largely a major guessing game.
> 
> If they make it to Year 5 with the same levels of production value, funding and maybe even grow in that department, then I think you will see the tides change. That doesn’t mean they will ever thwart the WWE, but they may well become a true competitor.


Excellent post. I’ve never bought into that Raw will always kill the competition mentality. In TV terms, it is a dinosaur. There is the idea that wrestling needs Vince McMahon, but that is something that can be reasonably challenged by another rich guy with sports and entertainment connections.

In my opinion, it’s not so much that WCW lost funding, it’s that it got too much and became a money pit. There was no coming back from that. TNA was more of a start-up, but it wasn’t so much funding. They got money from Spike and Panda for ages. They didn’t have the same capital as an AEW, and the timing was not right for them to run larger arenas, but their creative shot them in the foot.

What you’re saying is reasonable, and is no doubt the plan. It’s the Vince McMahon approach. But I’m not sure they do stabilize and get the deal they are going to be after to justify big wrestler contracts, for example. I just don’t know why you’d pay $100 million for this show.



imthegame19 said:


> Oh yay I forgot about this troll. Time to add him to ignore list.


And this isn’t being smug and self-congratulatory, as Garty would frame things? 



Gh0stFace said:


> Do you always sound like a little bitch when you cry?


And this isn’t trolling?

By the way, DOLT, I’m not replying to you point-by-point. Your attempts to use fatigue to win an argument are obvious. You keep talking like you have proven something, but you just talk in circles.

You did basket critics together, you talk about the collective board responding to the collective criticism. Stop being a weiner about it.

The rest of your post is tedious whataboutism that talks about me trying to find a lack of evidence in a lack of evidence. Okay? I would accept a report from TNT that says they are happy, or that ad revenue for the show is great. But we don’t know that, and no amount of you getting twisted around that changes that.

You need to develop your personality if you want to deliver keynote speeches.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Dude said:


> The irony of of someone who can’t even spell “spoiled” calling someone else dumb ?.


except that spoilt is a real word and I come from England where it is commonly used lmao. Please bro.


----------



## The Dude

The Wood said:


> It’s almost like people with good ideas appreciate them in other people. How could any two people who don’t love AEW think alike? And holy shit, a fucking ecological disaster costing many their lives and homes — must be the same guy! Can’t be that some people either live in the same country or _watch the fucking news_.
> 
> Imagine people who raise good points sounding like they are right. What a bizarre fucking coincidence.
> 
> 
> 
> You could have stopped at the first sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because WWE pays people to go around saying they suck and just to make very valid points about the reality of AEW. It’s more likely that Meltzer is on the take.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post. I’ve never bought into that Raw will always kill the competition mentality. In TV terms, it is a dinosaur. There is the idea that wrestling needs Vince McMahon, but that is something that can be reasonably challenged by another rich guy with sports and entertainment connections.
> 
> In my opinion, it’s not so much that WCW lost funding, it’s that it got too much and became a money pit. There was no coming back from that. TNA was more of a start-up, but it wasn’t so much funding. They got money from Spike and Panda for ages. They didn’t have the same capital as an AEW, and the timing was not right for them to run larger arenas, but their creative shot them in the foot.
> 
> What you’re saying is reasonable, and is no doubt the plan. It’s the Vince McMahon approach. But I’m not sure they do stabilize and get the deal they are going to be after to justify big wrestler contracts, for example. I just don’t know why you’d pay $100 million for this show.
> 
> 
> 
> And this isn’t being smug and self-congratulatory, as Garty would frame things?
> 
> 
> 
> And this isn’t trolling?
> 
> By the way, DOLT, I’m not replying to you point-by-point. Your attempts to use fatigue to win an argument are obvious. You keep talking like you have proven something, but you just talk in circles.
> 
> You did basket critics together, you talk about the collective board responding to the collective criticism. Stop being a weiner about it.
> 
> The rest of your post is tedious whataboutism that talks about me trying to find a lack of evidence in a lack of evidence. Okay? I would accept a report from TNT that says they are happy, or that ad revenue for the show is great. But we don’t know that, and no amount of you getting twisted around that changes that.
> 
> You need to develop your personality if you want to deliver keynote speeches.





optikk sucks said:


> except that spoilt is a real word and I come from England where it is commonly used lmao. Please bro.


Cool story. Now please explain to us some more how the hardcore AEW fanbase is super diverse in terms of the type of wrestling they prefer and aren’t above all else obsessed with workrate ?.

Once you’re done maybe next you can try to convince everyone that grass isn’t green.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> So, you’re a couple of years younger than me. Cool.
> 
> Why let it bother you so much, though? It ain’t that important.
> 
> Yeah, Cody is arrogant as fuck, the Bucks want their just due, and Kenny Omega got taken for a ride by his friends which his friends are probably more important to him than anything else.
> 
> Yeah, the AEW super fans are annoying and super defensive of their product towards any criticism as* I have been lumped into the hater category as well.*


You're not in the hater category.

90% of your criticism is for what they're doing with Omega and i think everybody agree that the should have done a better job with him even if they didn't want him to be the top guy right at the start.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> You see my guy, you are generalising and wrongly stating what the AEW fanbase are looking for and that’s why you are considered as an idiot and nobody takes your posts seriously. you’re just as dumb and clueless as this supposed supposed spoilt and minority fan base.
> 
> AEW fans want an alternate to WWE.
> AEW fans do want storylines and drama - myself included.
> 
> but it’s all good. You do you. Write very long essays on something you don’t really care about.Maybe instead, show your displeasure with your wallet.


Lol, The Dude is not an idiot. If people are dismissing him as such, then that’s their own blinders going up.

The Dude backs to his points with logic and evidence. The AEW fanboys dismissing him basically have “We like it tho!”. Cool. But let’s not pretend they are the same thing.

If AEW fans want something different to WWE, there would be a lot more criticism of the shit they’re doing, which is in deep WWE knock-off territory. What actually happens on a Dynamite that couldn’t happen on a Raw or SmackDown?

I think one of The Dude’s whole points, and it’s certainly been one of mine too, is that people are actually showing their disapproval with their wallets. These are why metrics are trending down. 



DOTL said:


> I respect this.
> 
> My thing is, rabid AEW hate done in bad faith hurts criticism because it makes people who want the product to be good very defensive. I defend AEW not because I think it's be reproach, but because I want credible criticism. I want the kind of criticism that will help it get better.


No, you don’t. You say that, but you don’t. And here’s how I know: any criticism gets labeled “rabid AEW hate.” Who here rabidly hates AEW? You create an idea of what criticism should be, then use that to dismiss criticism. Because you’re definitely okay with criticism, you’re just not going to accept _that_ criticism.

And the people who get stupid about their AEW defense can be dealt with on those merits. We don’t need to blame others for their actions.


----------



## shandcraig

optikk sucks said:


> You see my guy, you are generalising and wrongly stating what the AEW fanbase are looking for and that’s why you are considered as an idiot and nobody takes your posts seriously. you’re just as dumb and clueless as this supposed supposed spoilt and minority fan base.
> 
> AEW fans want an alternate to WWE.
> AEW fans do want storylines and drama - myself included.
> 
> but it’s all good. You do you. Write very long essays on something you don’t really care about.Maybe instead, show your displeasure with your wallet.



I dont know why that guy bothers,Hes clearly not a AEW fan yet wasting his life being in here. Hes delusional thinking he knows what the AEW fan base is and is basing it off all the drama talk leading up to the company being created. You and i are a typical AEW fan but he wont believe it. We dont care about work rate we like you said just want a good product that is an alternative to wwe that does some things different. Some things dont need changing. We want compelling ADULT storylines that are not soft. AEW is a rotating product right now figuring out what works and trying things and listening to fans slowly.Its going to change a lot over the next 12 months as that is its start up figuring its self out period. 

Anyways im not going to bother talking to him. Everyone in here with normal criticisms we all debate it but maybe he does not know how to talk because he sure as hell dont sound like someone that has normal criticisms. 

Dont bother with him, I wont be engaging. So many people call him out day in day out



The Wood said:


> Lol, The Dude is not an idiot. If people are dismissing him as such, then that’s their own blinders going up.
> 
> The Dude backs to his points with logic and evidence. The AEW fanboys dismissing him basically have “We like it tho!”. Cool. But let’s not pretend they are the same thing.
> 
> If AEW fans want something different to WWE, there would be a lot more criticism of the shit they’re doing, which is in deep WWE knock-off territory. What actually happens on a Dynamite that couldn’t happen on a Raw or SmackDown?
> 
> I think one of The Dude’s whole points, and it’s certainly been one of mine too, is that people are actually showing their disapproval with their wallets. These are why metrics are trending down.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don’t. You say that, but you don’t. And here’s how I know: any criticism gets labeled “rabid AEW hate.” Who here rabidly hates AEW? You create an idea of what criticism should be, then use that to dismiss criticism. Because you’re definitely okay with criticism, you’re just not going to accept _that_ criticism.
> 
> And the people who get stupid about their AEW defense can be dealt with on those merits. We don’t need to blame others for their actions.



I think its more of how people aproch. You can tell when someone dont sound like they are disccusing something constructive that could make the product better or could not. Vs something that is pointless bitching about nonsense that wont change anything and wording it like someone that is not bitching but hating. And more importantly people arguing with people when they bring up something and try to tell them A who or what the AEW fans base is or who and what AEW thinks they are. AEW dont know who they are yet and that is a good thing. They are going to try many things the next year which is good.What they are continuously doing though which is all that matters is sticking to storylines.That was TNA biggest mistake as nothing ever stuck when it came to the storyline or wrestlers 


Example i say plenty of constructive criticisms in here and i never get shat on,Because its pretty obviously im a AEW fan but also see many things they could do to be better and focus on that growth that i hope every single person in here wants. I say lots of great things they do to. But then you have other people that are constantly getting called out on their bullshit. So if they are not trolls you have to ask yourself do they have zero concept of how to talk ? or are they not AEW fans. Because they sure present a lot of hate and also attack plenty of people in here and make threads about petty things like hand sign movements a wrestler does and if you tell them that the fans clearly like it on tv and its not a big deal they blow up on you attack you.

Just my perspective


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Lol, The Dude is not an idiot. If people are dismissing him as such, then that’s their own blinders going up.
> 
> The Dude backs to his points with logic and evidence. The AEW fanboys dismissing him basically have “We like it tho!”. Cool. But let’s not pretend they are the same thing.
> 
> If AEW fans want something different to WWE, there would be a lot more criticism of the shit they’re doing, which is in deep WWE knock-off territory. What actually happens on a Dynamite that couldn’t happen on a Raw or SmackDown?
> 
> I think one of The Dude’s whole points, and it’s certainly been one of mine too, is that people are actually showing their disapproval with their wallets. These are why metrics are trending down.


"The Dude" also used the TNA ratings point, one of the few to which I originally refer to, and one you said wasn't even a serious argument.

So is he making this a good point backed with logic or just him being facetious? Make up your mind, "Not the Dude."




> No, you don’t. You say that, but you don’t. And here’s how I know: any criticism gets labeled “rabid AEW hate.” Who here rabidly hates AEW? You create an idea of what criticism should be, then use that to dismiss criticism. Because you’re definitely okay with criticism, you’re just not going to accept _that_ criticism.
> 
> And the people who get stupid about their AEW defense can be dealt with on those merits. We don’t need to blame others for their actions.


I have yet to see you say one positive thing about AEW. This indicates what I've been saying all along. That your "criticism" is born out of hate.

I, however,have criticized it. Many times. My earliest was that they don't do enough character work. Others like me said the same thing, enough that they've amended it. Which one of your criticisms improved the product? Oh, that's right, they aren't designed to.

Somewhere is a thread called "Where can AEW improve" that you and I both post. On that is a list of things I think AEW needs to fix. So if you're gonna lie about AEW fans not wanting criticism, you should at least ask for that board to be deleted first so this most obvious lie could be a bit more convincing.

lol



The Wood said:


> And this isn’t trolling?
> 
> By the way, DOLT, I’m not replying to you point-by-point. Your attempts to use fatigue to win an argument are obvious. You keep talking like you have proven something, but you just talk in circles.
> 
> You did basket critics together, you talk about the collective board responding to the collective criticism. Stop being a weiner about it.
> 
> The rest of your post is tedious whataboutism that talks about me trying to find a lack of evidence in a lack of evidence. Okay? I would accept a report from TNT that says they are happy, or that ad revenue for the show is great. But we don’t know that, and no amount of you getting twisted around that changes that.
> 
> You need to develop your personality if you want to deliver keynote speeches.



You think I'm using fatigue to win? You vacillate between calling me an idiot and an evil genius. The reality is I have a thing called hyper-focus. I can do dumb time wasting things for as long as my schedule permits.

And no tag? Allow me to interpret this move.

"I can't refute your points,so I'm going to bury my cowardly reply without tagging you, and pray to God you don't see it.

Well. I saw it.

Did you like the link? Because between you and me, that's the only evidence that will be shared in this conversation.

Talk about developing personality. Your personality is that of a teenaged edgelord from the late nineties. Cowardly too, from wht I see in this little stunt.


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> I dont know why that guy bothers,Hes clearly not a AEW fan yet wasting his life being in here. Hes delusional thinking he knows what the AEW fan base is and is basing it off all the drama talk leading up to the company being created. You and i are a typical AEW fan but he wont believe it. We dont care about work rate we like you said just want a good product that is an alternative to wwe that does some things different. Some things dont need changing. We want compelling ADULT storylines that are not soft. AEW is a rotating product right now figuring out what works and trying things and listening to fans slowly.Its going to change a lot over the next 12 months as that is its start up figuring its self out period.
> 
> Anyways im not going to bother talking to him. Everyone in here with normal criticisms we all debate it but maybe he does not know how to talk because he sure as hell dont sound like someone that has normal criticisms.
> 
> Dont bother with him, I wont be engaging. So many people call him out day in day out


Lol, what's so adult about the AEW storylines though? Like, The Dark Order are a gag-store Wyatt Family rip-off (probably more an Ascension rip-off, really). Brandi Rhodes is doing high school drama class. The Librarians are literally almost doing panto. I mean, that's one of my biggest criticisms of AEW: It's basically WWE-lite like every other sports entertainment product that has come along since the Attitude era. 

And guys like The Dude and myself aren't really speaking to what the hardcores want. That's obvious. They want spots, spots, spots with some naughty words and insider references thrown in. For the most part. But we're talking more to what the wider audience wants. The one that switched off. The one that is so fucking fatigued by wrestling that they're not going to give something "a chance." They've been burnt before. 

AEW has completely misjudged appealing to the general wrestling fan. I don't think that can even be debated.



shandcraig said:


> I think its more of how people aproch. You can tell when someone dont sound like they are disccusing something constructive that could make the product better or could not. Vs something that is pointless bitching about nonsense that wont change anything and wording it like someone that is not bitching but hating. And more importantly people arguing with people when they bring up something and try to tell them A who or what the AEW fans base is or who and what AEW thinks they are. AEW dont know who they are yet and that is a good thing. They are going to try many things the next year which is good.What they are continuously doing though which is all that matters is sticking to storylines.That was TNA biggest mistake as nothing ever stuck when it came to the storyline or wrestlers
> 
> 
> Example i say plenty of constructive criticisms in here and i never get shat on,Because its pretty obviously im a AEW fan but also see many things they could do to be better and focus on that growth that i hope every single person in here wants. I say lots of great things they do to. But then you have other people that are constantly getting called out on their bullshit. So if they are not trolls you have to ask yourself do they have zero concept of how to talk ? or are they not AEW fans. Because they sure present a lot of hate and also attack plenty of people in here and make threads about petty things like hand sign movements a wrestler does and if you tell them that the fans clearly like it on tv and its not a big deal they blow up on you attack you.
> 
> Just my perspective


You say that, and you're not the only one, but we're having a good chat, but I've been called a troll a number of times. The Dude's points all seem salient and logical to me. I don't get the vibe you get. I think people have a tendency to project that sometimes when it's convenient to avoid them. I'm not saying that's you specifically, but you see it a lot with the sad boys who go around talking about how they ignored half the board so now they can read it. 



DOTL said:


> "The Dude" also used the TNA ratings point, one of the few to which I originally refer to, and one you said wasn't even a serious argument.
> 
> So is he making this a good point backed with logic or just him being facetious? Make up your mind, "Not the Dude."


It's totally a fact. There's nothing wrong about pointing out that TNA used to do better, and now this is cause for celebration amongst a certain section of fan. That's not the same thing as arguing that the television situation is exactly the same then as it is now. You're trying that out as a straw-man. 

AEW is less viewed than TNA. That's a fact. That's got nothing to do with whether WWE is or isn't (as people like to point out), and that's got nothing to do with 2012 vs. 2020. It's just that 900k is considered a huge win for wrestling even when Raw and SmackDown both still do that several times over. It's an observation, and a valid one. 

If The Dude wants to argue it further, I'm sure he can. But I think you're confusing me saying it's not a serious argument with it not being true and not worth mentioning. Not everything needs to be backed up by legal fucking precedent in a court of law.



DOTL said:


> I have yet to see you say one positive thing about AEW. This indicates what I've been saying all along. That your "criticism" is born out of hate.
> 
> I, however,have criticized it. Many times. My earliest was that they don't do enough character work. Others like me said the same thing, enough that they've amended it. Which one of your criticisms improved the product? Oh, that's right, they aren't designed to.
> 
> Somewhere is a thread called "Where can AEW improve" that you and I both post. On that is a list of things I think AEW needs to fix. So if you're gonna lie about AEW fans not wanting criticism, you should at least ask for that board to be deleted first so this most obvious lie could be a bit more convincing.
> 
> lol


I've said plenty of good things about AEW. Especially their potential a few months ago. They've pissed a lot of that away. I still like MJF's promos, but I'm caring about the main event scene less and less. It's probably because I've got less time for Moxley than others. So no, you don't get to decide what someone else's criticism is born out of. That's you just making stuff up. 

And good for you. Want a lollipop. You also say ridiculous shit that you then deny saying. There's that too. Um, all my criticisms are designed to improve the product? I've been offering those suggestions since day one. Are you seriously that narcissistic you're so far up your own ass that you think your criticisms = good and mine = bad? Lol. 

You have to temper your "criticisms" a certain way. If the AEW fans like them, you're accepted. If it hurts their feelings because they aren't worded the right way or sheepishly enough, they wince and put you on ignore. That they pretend to look for feedback and then reject it is kind of the whole point. 



DOTL said:


> You think I'm using fatigue to win? You vacillate between calling me an idiot and an evil genius. The reality is I have a thing called hyper-focus. I can do dumb time wasting things for as long as my schedule permits.
> 
> And no tag? Allow me to interpret this move.
> 
> "I can't refute your points,so I'm going to bury my cowardly reply without tagging you, and pray to God you don't see it.
> 
> Well. I saw it.
> 
> Did you like the link? Because between you and me, that's the only evidence that will be shared in this conversation.
> 
> Talk about developing personality. Your personality is that of a teenaged edgelord from the late nineties. Cowardly too, from wht I see in this little stunt.


You expand everything to such unnecessary lengths (this coming from me), and you dilute the argument and take it on tangents. For someone with hyper-focus, you actually can't focus on a subject or a point very well. 

I actually did quote you, but on my phone the quote feature sometimes drops off the last person, so you didn't show up and you're not special enough to warrant a back click. I knew you'd find it, because why wouldn't you? It's a public fucking comment on a forum, haha. But nope, your keen interpretation senses are correct -- I'm obviously scared of you, lol. So there's absolutely no way I'm about to destroy you, right? Ha!

Oh, wait...you actually didn't offer anything. You think you've got something, so you're acting like a little dog with a bone too big for it, but it was actually just a glitch. But you actually think that someone not quoting your message, which is more for convenience sake than anything else, makes them a coward? That says way more about you than it does about me. 

Make a valid point or concede that you're a liar that likes to project their insecurities onto other people.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Imagine ignoring people who disagree with you on an internet forum lol.


----------



## imthegame19

Imagine going to a forum and not having to read trolling posts from a handful of people. Or not having to read long posts from a few hating bias clowns. It makes the forum a lot more enjoyable. Without having to see stupid comments from a handful of people.

It's not like people can't deal with these idiots, if they have to. But when all you have to do is press ignore and all that garbage disappears. Well its a great feature and prevents timing wasting debates with haters and trolls. If I'm going to spend my time on this forum. I rather spend my time talking to actual AEW fans. Not arguing with losers.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Imagine going to a forum and not having to read trolling posts from a handful of people. Or not having to read long posts from a few hating bias clowns. It makes the forum a lot more enjoyable. Without having to see stupid comments from a handful of people.
> 
> It's not like people can't deal with these idiots, if they have to. But when all you have to do is press ignore and all that garbage disappears. Well its a great feature and prevents timing wasting debates with haters and trolls. If I'm going to spend my time on this forum. I rather spend my time talking to actual AEW fans. Not arguing with losers.


Just because people don't agree with you, it doesn't make them a troll. I haven't seen a troll here in some time. And everybody has biases. You've got biases, pal. You are an AEW apologist. You throw that word around a lot like it's some sort of hand grenade, but I don't think you really know what it means. 

I'm biased towards logical wrestling with psychology and storytelling that makes sense. That's what I'm after, and AEW offers very little of it. That's their prerogative, I guess, but I'll call them out on where I think the holes in their game are. You are biased because you will defend almost everything they do as gold, even against evidence that it's not working. But we're both biased. The thing is, I can acknowledge mine and back it up with evidence that supports my bias. You just dismiss people based on theirs and stop there.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> I've said plenty of good things about AEW. Especially their potential a few months ago. They've pissed a lot of that away. I still like MJF's promos, but I'm caring about the main event scene less and less. It's probably because I've got less time for Moxley than others. So no, you don't get to decide what someone else's criticism is born out of. That's you just making stuff up.
> 
> And good for you. Want a lollipop. You also say ridiculous shit that you then deny saying. There's that too. Um, all my criticisms are designed to improve the product? I've been offering those suggestions since day one. Are you seriously that narcissistic you're so far up your own ass that you think your criticisms = good and mine = bad? Lol.
> 
> You have to temper your "criticisms" a certain way. If the AEW fans like them, you're accepted. If it hurts their feelings because they aren't worded the right way or sheepishly enough, they wince and put you on ignore. That they pretend to look for feedback and then reject it is kind of the whole point.


To make this as simple as possible, I have no problem with criticism. What I have a problem with is people who have a bug up their butt about AEW pretending to be critics. These people don't just critique AEW( which is fine), they never allow anyone to say anything positive about AEW without proselytizing how wrong everyone is. AEW jumps up 13%, they bitch that it didn't jump beat RAW. AEW cures cancer, . they bitch about the aftertaste.

I don't give a crap if you hate AEW.But be flipping honest, you coward.





> You expand everything to such unnecessary lengths (this coming from me), and you dilute the argument and take it on tangents. For someone with hyper-focus, you actually can't focus on a subject or a point very well.
> 
> I actually did quote you, but on my phone the quote feature sometimes drops off the last person, so you didn't show up and you're not special enough to warrant a back click. I knew you'd find it, because why wouldn't you? It's a public fucking comment on a forum, haha. But nope, your keen interpretation senses are correct -- I'm obviously scared of you, lol. So there's absolutely no way I'm about to destroy you, right? Ha!
> 
> Oh, wait...you actually didn't offer anything. You think you've got something, so you're acting like a little dog with a bone too big for it, but it was actually just a glitch. But you actually think that someone not quoting your message, which is more for convenience sake than anything else, makes them a coward? That says way more about you than it does about me.
> 
> Make a valid point or concede that you're a liar that likes to project their insecurities onto other people.



At the end of the day,I had sources. You didn't.

Everything else here is fluff.

The entirety of your argument was an appeal to uncertainty. I wiped that uncertainty away. Unless you have a link countering mine about how happy TNT is with AEWs rating , you have nothing I'm interested in here anymore.

EDIT: BTW, that's quite a convenient glitch. The kind that doesn't notify the user there was a reply to his post. Very convenient.


----------



## A PG Attitude

This thread is becoming insufferable. Can we stop with the essay long pissing contests. Cheers


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> To make this as simple as possible, I have no problem with criticism. What I have a problem with is people who have a bug up their butt about AEW pretending to be critics. These people don't just critique AEW( which is fine), they never allow anyone to say anything positive about AEW without proselytizing how wrong everyone is. AEW jumps up 13%, they bitch that it didn't jump beat RAW. AEW cures cancer, . they bitch about the aftertaste.
> 
> I don't give a crap if you hate AEW.But be flipping honest, you coward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day,I had sources. You didn't.
> 
> Everything else here is fluff.
> 
> The entirety of your argument was an appeal to uncertainty. I wiped that uncertainty away. Unless you have a link countering mine about how happy TNT is with AEWs rating , you have nothing I'm interested in here anymore.
> 
> EDIT: BTW, that's quite a convenient glitch. The kind that doesn't notify the user there was a reply to his post. Very convenient.


AEW hasn’t cured cancer. If they did that, I’d give them kudos. They could start by simply putting on a consistently good pro-wrestling show.

I am honest about what I like about AEW. I seek out MJF and Jericho promos. Cody‘s largely been doing good work. PAC is a talented motherfucker. I still think Dustin Rhodes could be one of the best babyfaces in the business. This is the best use for Jake Hager. Those things are pretty consistent. But I don’t have to like anything else. And that’s their fault, as far as I’m concerned. I hold content creators accountable for their content. And I’m sure they couldn’t give a damn about what I think, but unfortunately for them, I’m in the majority of wrestling fans.

I didn’t see the link you posted. Was it a Meltzer thing or an Alvarez thing? Because they would think two people in Alaska watching would be great for them. I haven’t seen anything official from TNT or in regards to AEW’s financial situation. If it’s speculative, it doesn’t do anything to dissuade the doubt.

It happens all the time, and I’m sure other people using the forum on their phone experience a similar thing. Spacing between quotes is difficult too. You actually check your notifications on here? Dude, you basically live in this thread. As if you weren’t going to go through and see my reply. Get your head out of your own presumptuous ass.

Yes, DOLT, your intellect is so immense I only reply in the actual thread without sending you a notification in hopes that Batman doesn’t see the Batsignal and come beat me up. Holy shit.


----------



## Garty

Man. oh man. These 2 "strangers" just cannot stop. It's literally impossible! "Well, I agree with The Wood". "Well, I agree with The Dude". It is impossible to have that much in common, say the exact same things, structured in the same long-essay format, derailing every thread on the board with your "facts" and not be the same guy.

Why is this shit allowed to carry on? I just don't get it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

A PG Attitude said:


> This thread is becoming insufferable. Can we stop with the essay long pissing contests. Cheers


They out here writing essays on something they don’t even watch ?

the initial trolling has actually turned them into passionate diehards who want AEW to succeed. That’s great to see.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Garty said:


> Man. oh man. These 2 "strangers" just cannot stop. It's literally impossible! "Well, I agree with The Wood". "Well, I agree with The Dude". It is impossible to have that much in common, say the exact same things, structured in the same long-essay format, derailing every thread on the board with your "facts" and not be the same guy.
> 
> Why is this shit allowed to carry on? I just don't get it.


Because the mods here are WWE fans and don’t give a crap about making this an AEW forum for AEW fans.

Damn shame because I spent all these years at WF following TNA. Now I just want to make an AEW forum so we all have a troll free place to talk AEW.


----------



## rbl85

The mods are doing nothing wrong here ,they can't ban people without a really good reason.

Also we have the possibility to ignore people.


----------



## Garty

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the mods here are WWE fans and don’t give a crap about making this an AEW forum for AEW fans.
> 
> Damn shame because I spent all these years at WF following TNA. Now I just want to make an AEW forum so we all have a troll free place to talk AEW.


I don't believe that all Mods are WWE fans only, but what I do know for a fact, is that they're not doing anything at all to stop, or even just reign-in, the idiotic threads and the people who post them. Disappointment and underwhelmed about AEW is one thing, but these guys take it to the nth degree with the pure hate in each and every post. Hell, just look at The Dude's post "Ciero Miedo". He's complaining about Pentagon's glove. His FUCKING glove! Like I said, if the Mods don't start actually "monitoring" this board, they may as well take it offline.


----------



## Garty

rbl85 said:


> The mods are doing nothing wrong here ,they can't ban people without a really good reason.
> 
> Also we have the possibility to ignore people.


They can take anyone's account offline without any reason. The owners and backers of this site (or domain), or any other website, have that power to do so. There is no legal right you or I have, that says we must be able to join this website. Maybe those that are Premium paid members, of which I am one, are given a little more rope to hang ourselves with, but it still comes down to the fact that we have no power over who stays and who goes on this website.

Yes, we can ignore users and their posts, but that doesn't make the spamming of threads any less important of an issue.


----------



## Garty

optikk sucks said:


> They out here writing essays on something they don’t even watch ?


Exactly. I think the "scroll" of my mouse and keyboard are forever ruined by it's constant use.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Garty said:


> Exactly. I think the "scroll" of my mouse and keyboard are forever ruined by it's constant use.


??
The Dude and the Wood are obviously passionate about AEW. They seem to be bigger fans than anyone in this section.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> I don't believe that all Mods are WWE fans only, but what I do know for a fact, is that they're not doing anything at all to stop, or even just reign-in, the idiotic threads and the people who post them. Disappointment and underwhelmed about AEW is one thing, but these guys take it to the nth degree with the pure hate in each and every post. Hell, just look at The Dude's post "Ciero Miedo". He's complaining about Pentagon's glove. His FUCKING glove! Like I said, if the Mods don't start actually "monitoring" this board, they may as well take it offline.


Why don't they ban you that way you don't have to worry about seeing super negative opinions. If you been here as long as you claim then you should have a good idea of what's considered ban worthy. No being 95% negative about a promotion isn't considered ban worthy here.


----------



## captainzombie

A PG Attitude said:


> This thread is becoming insufferable. Can we stop with the essay long pissing contests. Cheers


Well if the mods would come in to some of these threads around here, they can clean up this place with a lot of the bullshit that is ruining almost every single forum section. I frequent other forums and this kind of back and forth garbage that goes on here with people calling others names and those that continue to troll would be out the door. It’s sad you get people that don’t watch a single episode of RAW, will go in the RAW thread on Monday nights and post bullshit. Now you get the same thing on Wednesday nights, people that even admit they haven’t watched an episode yet post the same garbage.

The best is the guy that created the thread about Jerichos physique. Now if he had been following AEW and even any kind of wrestling he would have known Jericho has added weight the last 2-3 years.

It’s one thing to criticize the products, but another to do so with an agenda. AEW is by no means perfect, but some of the posts just go off the deep end.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1214199947047784448


----------



## rbl85

This week show is going to be real bad crowd wise.


----------



## captainzombie

rbl85 said:


> This week show is going to be real bad crowd wise.


How come? Have they not sold enough seats?


----------



## Bloody Warpath

rbl85 said:


> This week show is going to be real bad crowd wise.


I am curious at how well their audience will receive the Memphis legends. I am sure there will be long-time fans that have memories of them as I do, but with a majority of their audience skewing towards the younger end of the spectrum I am worried that some in the audience will not even know who most of them are.


----------



## rbl85

captainzombie said:


> How come? Have they not sold enough seats?


Yep.

They'll probably not come back in this city in the future.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> AEW hasn’t cured cancer. If they did that, I’d give them kudos. They could start by simply putting on a consistently good pro-wrestling show.
> 
> I am honest about what I like about AEW. I seek out MJF and Jericho promos. Cody‘s largely been doing good work. PAC is a talented motherfucker. I still think Dustin Rhodes could be one of the best babyfaces in the business. This is the best use for Jake Hager. Those things are pretty consistent. But I don’t have to like anything else. And that’s their fault, as far as I’m concerned. I hold content creators accountable for their content. And I’m sure they couldn’t give a damn about what I think, but unfortunately for them, I’m in the majority of wrestling fans.
> 
> I didn’t see the link you posted. Was it a Meltzer thing or an Alvarez thing? Because they would think two people in Alaska watching would be great for them. I haven’t seen anything official from TNT or in regards to AEW’s financial situation. If it’s speculative, it doesn’t do anything to dissuade the doubt.
> 
> It happens all the time, and I’m sure other people using the forum on their phone experience a similar thing. Spacing between quotes is difficult too. You actually check your notifications on here? Dude, you basically live in this thread. As if you weren’t going to go through and see my reply. Get your head out of your own presumptuous ass.
> 
> Yes, DOLT, your intellect is so immense I only reply in the actual thread without sending you a notification in hopes that Batman doesn’t see the Batsignal and come beat me up. Holy shit.


None of this is worth replying to but, what the heck?

1.Meh.
2.fair enough, at least for the extent @The Wood is capable
3.Typical. You ask for a link, spend how many posts disregarding it, now you say you never saw it. Some people say you're a troll. this is the type of crap that suggest they might be right.
4. Notifications is literally how everyone knows they've been replied to. That's their function. Not using them, now that is a waste of time. The only reason I saw your hidden post was because I scrolled past it. I wasn't even looking for it.
5. If I was Batman that'd make you the Joker. You're a clown, true, but nether of us are on that level. It's simple. you replied to something I say without quoting me. I'm not sure how you can reply to something you can't see, even if there was a "glitch," especially since you say "I won't reply to point for point," implying that you see my quote in the text field. 

At this point, this stuff is just getting petty. Slightly amusing in some respects, but wholly petty.


----------



## captainzombie

rbl85 said:


> Yep


Ouch, that is not good. They still have 2 days to go, hopefully they can cover up the sections that may make them look empty.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> This week show is going to be real bad crowd wise.


They don't sell out that often. However, you can rest assure the crowd will be hot.


----------



## rbl85

captainzombie said:


> Ouch, that is not good. They still have 2 days to go, hopefully they can cover up the sections that may make them look empty.


Nah usually during the last 2-3 days 90% of the tickets who are sold are on StubHub but close to 0 tickets are sold on Ticketmaster for the last 2 days.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> They don't sell out that often. However, you can rest assure the crowd will be hot.


There is a difference between not selling out and having sections not on the hardcam side half empty.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> There is a difference between not selling out and having sections not on the hardcam side half empty.


you'd be surprised about how often this happens

simple moving around of fans will happen so relax.


----------



## shandcraig

All right my beautiful wrestling souls leta get back on track. The discussions have been more about each other the past week than the wrestling lol. May the force be with you and great wrestling conversation. 

Will be interesting to see if that big ratings jump sticks this week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Looks like 3k sold with 2 days to go.

not great, but not unsalvageable

move fans, paper the house with students / try and create some new fans in process


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lmao. This forum died after the update and now people want mods to ban people for posting dissenting opinions that they feel are too long to read. You guys are geniuses.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *Looks like 3k sold with 2 days to go.*
> 
> not great, but not unsalvageable
> 
> move fans, paper the house with students / try and create some new fans in process


Way less than that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Way less than that.


I’m just going by what it looks like on the site

how many is actually sold then?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m just going by what it looks like on the site
> 
> how many is actually sold then?


Every upper sections are empty (they closed them because not enough demande) + the sections 117 and 116 are not fully opened.

If it stay like this, more or less 2.6K people will be in the arena but with the tickets sold on StubHub tomorrow and wednesday, probably 2.8K (max)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Every upper sections are empty (they closed them because not enough demande) + the sections 117 and 116 are not fully opened.
> 
> If it stay like this, more or less 2.6K people will be in the arena but with the tickets sold on StubHub tomorrow and wednesday, probably 2.8K (max)


...... so.... 3k (about)


----------



## Aedubya

Why are they doing shows in huge arenas when they should be targeting 5/6k size arenas and filling them out?


----------



## imthegame19

Aedubya said:


> Why are they doing shows in huge arenas when they should be targeting 5/6k size arenas and filling them out?


All depends on the market.


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> Why are they doing shows in huge arenas when *they should be targeting 5/6k size arenas and filling them out?*


Except that they're not solding out arena of that size.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Atlanta is a big struggle. The facility is too large for a Dynamite, they should have saved it for a possible PPV location.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Man. oh man. These 2 "strangers" just cannot stop. It's literally impossible! "Well, I agree with The Wood". "Well, I agree with The Dude". It is impossible to have that much in common, say the exact same things, structured in the same long-essay format, derailing every thread on the board with your "facts" and not be the same guy.
> 
> Why is this shit allowed to carry on? I just don't get it.


Yes, it is literally impossible for two people to have logical issues with AEW. Holy shit, some people here are actually delusional.

You’re irked enough by one of our personalities. Why would someone need to invent an alter-ego just to bother you more? One is too much for you to handle.

Plus, in my experience on message boards, I’m pretty sure the mods can check IPs and verify that we’re very different people. I just think it’s very telling that two people with similar critiques MUST be one individual in your mind. You do realize that AEW has lost about half its viewership, right? Most wrestling fans don’t like AEW.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the mods here are WWE fans and don’t give a crap about making this an AEW forum for AEW fans.
> 
> Damn shame because I spent all these years at WF following TNA. Now I just want to make an AEW forum so we all have a troll free place to talk AEW.


The mods here have been hassled by insane AEW fans from day one. People demanding an AEW board before the launch, like the ongoing conversations weren’t enough. Now they’re getting called out after giving you what you want for not running it like a totalitarian society where everyone smiles all the time.

I’ve been banned off these boards before for absolute bullshit (in my opinion). “Flaming” was the reason. I go out of my way to not call people names. Get it done to me all the time by AEW fans, but don’t do it myself. I’ll call ideas stupid, and I’ve called DOLT a liar, because I’ve caught them lying, but you lot have your way on here. Shut up and be grateful that people come here.



Garty said:


> I don't believe that all Mods are WWE fans only, but what I do know for a fact, is that they're not doing anything at all to stop, or even just reign-in, the idiotic threads and the people who post them. Disappointment and underwhelmed about AEW is one thing, but these guys take it to the nth degree with the pure hate in each and every post. Hell, just look at The Dude's post "Ciero Miedo". He's complaining about Pentagon's glove. His FUCKING glove! Like I said, if the Mods don't start actually "monitoring" this board, they may as well take it offline.


That thread is about the presentation of a wrestler and their repetitious taunt. What’s wrong with that subject matter? If you don’t want to discuss it, don’t go into the thread.

Mods are unifying threads and closing redundant discussions all the time. You are being ignorant and disrespectful by not noticing it and accusing the opposite.



optikk sucks said:


> ??
> The Dude and the Wood are obviously passionate about AEW. They seem to be bigger fans than anyone in this section.


Can’t speak for The Dude, but I am passionate about wrestling.



captainzombie said:


> Well if the mods would come in to some of these threads around here, they can clean up this place with a lot of the bullshit that is ruining almost every single forum section. I frequent other forums and this kind of back and forth garbage that goes on here with people calling others names and those that continue to troll would be out the door. It’s sad you get people that don’t watch a single episode of RAW, will go in the RAW thread on Monday nights and post bullshit. Now you get the same thing on Wednesday nights, people that even admit they haven’t watched an episode yet post the same garbage.
> 
> The best is the guy that created the thread about Jerichos physique. Now if he had been following AEW and even any kind of wrestling he would have known Jericho has added weight the last 2-3 years.
> 
> It’s one thing to criticize the products, but another to do so with an agenda. AEW is by no means perfect, but some of the posts just go off the deep end.


You perceive and project an agenda. That doesn’t mean there is one. Jericho’s physique is something on your television. It can be discussed.
You are all really insecure, which makes me believe that the criticism is way more on-point than you want to admit. Why else call for it to be removed?



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1214199947047784448


Just want to thank an AEW fan for posting something constructive.



Bloody Warpath said:


> I am curious at how well their audience will receive the Memphis legends. I am sure there will be long-time fans that have memories of them as I do, but with a majority of their audience skewing towards the younger end of the spectrum I am worried that some in the audience will not even know who most of them are.


I’m not sure if older fans of Memphis wrestling are going to be fans of the AEW product. I mean, Memphis was a bit showy, but it still took shit earnestly. It’ll probably be a normal wrestling crowd. They’ll know Jerry Lawler, recognize The Rock ‘n’ Roll, maybe pop for the name Fargo? Can’t see them doing much more than playing along.



DOTL said:


> None of this is worth replying to but, what the heck?
> 
> 1.Meh.
> 2.fair enough, at least for the extent @The Wood is capable
> 3.Typical. You ask for a link, spend how many posts disregarding it, now you say you never saw it. Some people say you're a troll. this is the type of crap that suggest they might be right.
> 4. Notifications is literally how everyone knows they've been replied to. That's their function. Not using them, now that is a waste of time. The only reason I saw your hidden post was because I scrolled past it. I wasn't even looking for it.
> 5. If I was Batman that'd make you the Joker. You're a clown, true, but nether of us are on that level. It's simple. you replied to something I say without quoting me. I'm not sure how you can reply to something you can't see, even if there was a "glitch," especially since you say "I won't reply to point for point," implying that you see my quote in the text field.
> 
> At this point, this stuff is just getting petty. Slightly amusing in some respects, but wholly petty.


Dude, you come into the forums, click on a subject, read the discussion. It’s not fucking clandestine. I didn’t reply to you point-by-point because a) you are too long and, frankly, boring; b) I couldn’t see it because I’m on my fucking phone, so I would have had to memorize the points, which is a ridiculous brain exercise when they’re fluff.

And yes, you saw it scrolling past, BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT YOU DO ON A FORUM!!!!

I did not see your link. Did you post it at the bottom of one your fatiguing posts? If so, I probably didn’t even realize it was there. I’m happy to look at if you post it again. But I’m not going fishing for you. I’ve never come across anything in my rummaging that suggests, from TNT or a reputable source, that they are definitely over the moon with the numbers. All I’ve ever read was that Meltzer 500k speculation. Happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## DOTL

Why am I wasting my life on this bs?


----------



## outsiders96

Using tna ratings too downplay aew is a little unfair I think. Tna didn't have too go head too head with another wrestling show for most of it existence I think aew could do a lot better with its own night but I do imo feel aew has been underwhelming so far but creativity for new ideas for wrestling is not easy id imagine but I do agree with some people that aew needs a lot more big guys as heavyweights


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> Yep.
> 
> They'll probably not come back in this city in the future.





rbl85 said:


> This week show is going to be real bad crowd wise.


It can't be worse than Corpus. AND that's because Corpus was on fire! They're usually dead.


----------



## captainzombie

The Wood said:


> You perceive and project an agenda. That doesn’t mean there is one. Jericho’s physique is something on your television. It can be discussed.
> 
> You are all really insecure, which makes me believe that the criticism is way more on-point than you want to admit. Why else call for it to be removed?


Come on man, you can't be that blind. There are several people coming into these threads wanting to cause nothing but troll like problems.

I'm not insecure. I watch WWE, AEW, Impact, NJPW, ROH, NWA, and MLW. So not sure where I am insecure as I don't just defend one promotion. I do want to see AEW succeed because guess what dude, if they fail we probably will not get another promotion in the national spotlight for years to come. Even with last weeks episode I pointed out some issues with the show, so many of us are not just wearing rose colored glasses. 

I challenge you to sit through the Dynamite thread without a bias and just watch some of the off the wall stuff that is posted. It is mind boggling at times. AEW is nowhere near perfect and I can also post lists of what they are doing wrong.


----------



## BigCy

Garty said:


> Exactly. I think the "scroll" of my mouse and keyboard are forever ruined by it's constant use.


This was way funnier than it had a right to be lmao. Good stuff. Reminded me of some blogs that are rather "puffy" where I'm almost hurting my finger scrolling. I like long reads though so I'm ok with it but that really was pretty funny and kind of made my night. Thanks.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Couldn't even crack 1Million. Embarrassing !


----------



## The Wood

captainzombie said:


> Come on man, you can't be that blind. There are several people coming into these threads wanting to cause nothing but troll like problems.
> 
> I'm not insecure. I watch WWE, AEW, Impact, NJPW, ROH, NWA, and MLW. So not sure where I am insecure as I don't just defend one promotion. I do want to see AEW succeed because guess what dude, if they fail we probably will not get another promotion in the national spotlight for years to come. Even with last weeks episode I pointed out some issues with the show, so many of us are not just wearing rose colored glasses.
> 
> I challenge you to sit through the Dynamite thread without a bias and just watch some of the off the wall stuff that is posted. It is mind boggling at times. AEW is nowhere near perfect and I can also post lists of what they are doing wrong.


I completely agree with AEW’s success being potentially crucial to the future of wrestling. That’s what I’ve been saying since the star, and have been called an overly negative troll because of it.

You may not be insecure, but a lot of people are, and they go nuts if you raise valid criticisms and point out why AEW is better off doing something else.


----------



## Intimidator3

Between it being new years night and the college bowl games being on, I'm surprised they did almost a million. Good for them. Good show too.

And wow this place has gone to shit.


----------



## Garty

Deathiscoming said:


> Couldn't even crack 1Million. Embarrassing !


How in the fuck did you manage to re-appear? This forum has NO hope. Enjoy talking amongst yourselves.


----------



## captainzombie

Garty said:


> How in the fuck did you manage to re-appear? This forum has NO hope. Enjoy talking amongst yourselves.


Probably conned one of the non existing mods to let him back. Now if anyone is as bad as the dude it’s that guy, goes from section to section blasting all product.


----------



## captainzombie

The Wood said:


> I completely agree with AEW’s success being potentially crucial to the future of wrestling. That’s what I’ve been saying since the star, and have been called an overly negative troll because of it.
> 
> You may not be insecure, but a lot of people are, and they go nuts if you raise valid criticisms and point out why AEW is better off doing something else.


Like I’ve said several times this product is far from perfect. I can create pros and cons for what they are doing. The good thing is that the good outweighs the bad and it’s not to a point where there is more cringe than good. 

For me, one issue I have going into this weeks Dynamite that nobody else has brought up.....why is Cody and Dustin facing the Lucha Brothers? From the feuds that these guys are in, they shouldn’t be crossing paths yet. I understand they want to tell brothers vs brothers, but that could be told with some nice build.

There are several people like that deathiscoming, the dude, to name a few that take things to a whole different level of trolling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

captainzombie said:


> Like I’ve said several times this product is far from perfect. I can create pros and cons for what they are doing. The good thing is that the good outweighs the bad and it’s not to a point where there is more cringe than good.
> 
> For me, one issue I have going into this weeks Dynamite that nobody else has brought up.....why is Cody and Dustin facing the Lucha Brothers? From the feuds that these guys are in, they shouldn’t be crossing paths yet. I understand they want to tell brothers vs brothers, but that could be told with some nice build.
> 
> There are several people like that deathiscoming, the dude, to name a few that take things to a whole different level of trolling.


Where are the Dustin brothers feuding with the Lucha Bros?

Cody is feuding with MJF. Dustin has an ongoing rivalry with the inner circle.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Garty said:


> How in the fuck did you manage to re-appear? This forum has NO hope. Enjoy talking amongst yourselves.


Happy new year bro! Bro...just one request to you, don't celebrate the new year with poop emojis! That's kinda...weird. 

And I managed to be back here 'cause it's a new year and this forum needs me ! Even 2020 needs me. The AEW section needs my healthy, constructive criticism as well! Also, you need me, as I just taught you to not use Poop thing in 2020! Use some pleasant and visually appealing emoji instead!


----------



## Garty

captainzombie said:


> Like I’ve said several times this product is far from perfect. I can create pros and cons for what they are doing. The good thing is that the good outweighs the bad and it’s not to a point where there is more cringe than good.
> 
> There are several people like that deathiscoming, the dude, to name a few that take things to a whole different level of trolling.


Well, according to the Mods and Admins, this type of behavior is not only allowed, but continues to give the haters life because absolutely nothing has been done to try and stop that hate.


----------



## captainzombie

optikk sucks said:


> Where are the Dustin brothers feuding with the Lucha Bros?
> 
> Cody is feuding with MJF. Dustin has an ongoing rivalry with the inner circle.


They are having a random tag team match between the two teams this week on Dynamite unless things have changed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

captainzombie said:


> They are having a random tag team match between the two teams this week on Dynamite unless things have changed.


The overarching storyline is the elite is struggling, so the match plays into that. Nothing about bros vs bros


----------



## captainzombie

optikk sucks said:


> The overarching storyline is the elite is struggling, so the match plays into that. Nothing about bros vs bros


If you watch the latest Road to Memphis video which they posted on YT, it is about brothers vs brothers. The video itself was pretty good overall setting up the matches for this week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

captainzombie said:


> If you watch the latest Road to Memphis video which they posted on YT, it is about brothers vs brothers. The video itself was pretty good overall setting up the matches for this week.


ah fair enough. yeah it's' supposed to link in with the overarching "elite are not good enough" storyline right now. I dont' think it's PPV-worthy either, so nothing wrong with giving it away on Dynamite.


----------



## WrestlinFan

I'll be going to the show in MS tomorrow. Any idea if ticket prices are gonna plummet tomorrow or should I just go ahead and buy them now?


----------



## rbl85

WrestlinFan said:


> I'll be going to the show in MS tomorrow. Any idea if ticket prices are gonna plummet tomorrow or should I just go ahead and buy them now?


The prices on StubHub are going to plummet so you can wait until tomorrow.


----------



## The Wood

Intimidator3 said:


> Between it being new years night and the college bowl games being on, I'm surprised they did almost a million. Good for them. Good show too.
> 
> And wow this place has gone to shit.


It's almost like people are losing faith in AEW. 



captainzombie said:


> Like I’ve said several times this product is far from perfect. I can create pros and cons for what they are doing. The good thing is that the good outweighs the bad and it’s not to a point where there is more cringe than good.
> 
> For me, one issue I have going into this weeks Dynamite that nobody else has brought up.....why is Cody and Dustin facing the Lucha Brothers? From the feuds that these guys are in, they shouldn’t be crossing paths yet. I understand they want to tell brothers vs brothers, but that could be told with some nice build.
> 
> There are several people like that deathiscoming, the dude, to name a few that take things to a whole different level of trolling.


I respect you are trying to be constructive here, but I respectfully disagree. I think the shows are about 80% cringe, at this point. Jericho is great, MJF is excellent, Cody is usually good, I've got a soft spot for Dustin, Darby's got something, so does Jungle Boy -- but generally, everything else is pretty shit. And I think that bothers a lot of AEW fans. They can't stand it if AEW doesn't get certified fresh with wrestling fans. 



Garty said:


> Well, according to the Mods and Admins, this type of behavior is not only allowed, but continues to give the haters life because absolutely nothing has been done to try and stop that hate.


Wah, wah, wah. The mods do a fine job. People are allowed to have a different opinion on AEW to you. Stop whinging -- if any posts aren't constructive it is whiny ones like this that add absolutely no content. This is fucking spam. 



optikk sucks said:


> The overarching storyline is the elite is struggling, so the match plays into that. Nothing about bros vs bros


They are brothers wrestling brothers. It's brothers vs. brothers.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> It's almost like people are losing faith in AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> I respect you are trying to be constructive here, but I respectfully disagree. I think the shows are about 80% cringe, at this point. Jericho is great, MJF is excellent, Cody is usually good, I've got a soft spot for Dustin, Darby's got something, so does Jungle Boy -- but generally, everything else is pretty shit. And I think that bothers a lot of AEW fans. They can't stand it if AEW doesn't get certified fresh with wrestling fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Wah, wah, wah. The mods do a fine job. People are allowed to have a different opinion on AEW to you. Stop whinging -- if any posts aren't constructive it is whiny ones like this that add absolutely no content. This is fucking spam.
> 
> 
> 
> They are brothers wrestling brothers. It's brothers vs. brothers.


Dude, you praise the WWE product. Ive read it. You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Stop spamming our forum and go enjoy the crap show in Stamford.


----------



## WrestlinFan

It looks like ticket prices are going up instead. Huge parts of the arena no longer have tickets available and now tickets are starting at 80 bucks+ on StubHub.


----------



## Garty

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, you praise the WWE product. Ive read it. You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Stop spamming our forum and go enjoy the crap show in Stamford.


Be careful, watch what you say to him. He just might type up a 25,000 word essay "factually" informing you with all of these numbers, graphs, charts, textbooks and Microsoft Power-Point presentations he has, as to why your opinion is wrong. You really don't want to read that do you?! More importantly, do you really want the rest of us to read it too?  He just can't stop. It's impossible. Case in point (and regardless of his "rights" to choose to reply to my or anyone's posts) he told me, *"I don’t pay any attention to what you do"* and then proceeded to reply to what I was saying. Oh and his "excuse" for replying to me (to which he still does... shh) is because I singled out that specific line, as opposed to the "context" of his full reply. How is any part of that quote, out of context, regardless of what was said before and after? He has an elitist, narcissistic personality. Not because of what he does, but why he continues to do so. As I said, there's no off switch. And yes the Moderators and Administrators have deemed what he's doing, is not outside of the rule-book, so he'll continue on as he was. Keep watching, it won't be long.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, you praise the WWE product. Ive read it. You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Stop spamming our forum and go enjoy the crap show in Stamford.


Citation needed. I hate WWE and haven’t watched a show since the FOX debut out of morbid curiosity. Would like to see some of this “praise.”



Garty said:


> Be careful, watch what you say to him. He just might type up a 25,000 word essay "factually" informing you with all of these numbers, graphs, charts, textbooks and Microsoft Power-Point presentations he has, as to why your opinion is wrong. You really don't want to read that do you?! More importantly, do you really want the rest of us to read it too?  He just can't stop. It's impossible. Case in point (and regardless of his "rights" to choose to reply to my or anyone's posts) he told me, *"I don’t pay any attention to what you do"* and then proceeded to reply to what I was saying. Oh and his "excuse" for replying to me (to which he still does... shh) is because I singled out that specific line, as opposed to the "context" of his full reply. How is any part of that quote, out of context, regardless of what was said before and after? He has an elitist, narcissistic personality. Not because of what he does, but why he continues to do so. As I said, there's no off switch. And yes the Moderators and Administrators have deemed what he's doing, is not outside of the rule-book, so he'll continue on as he was. Keep watching, it won't be long.


You sound obsessed.

Yeah, imagine backing up your opinion with facts and data, or disproving the baseless claims of others with it. What a troll!

I explained this very clearly to you at the time, and you still don’t seem to get it: You were referencing a gimmick you do like everyone knew what it was. I said that I don’t pay attention to what you do. I didn’t say I wouldn’t call you out for stupid shit in the moment. Now I do know you. You’re the guy with poor comprehension that whinges whenever someone new comes to the boards and blasts the mods for not banning everyone you don’t like.

Imagine thinking a clever line to someone saying “I don’t have any idea who you are” is “But you’re talking to me now!” Do you have any content to go with your melodramatic whinge? You do realize that your posts like that are the most frivolous on the forum, right?

Raw just got 2.39 million viewers. That awful fucking product still gets several times the AEW audience. How about a suggestion as to how they could address that? And why do their numbers keep dropping when Raw and SmackDown’s actually seem capable of bouncing back?


----------



## imthegame19

AEW vs. NXT Ratings: Who Is Winning the Wednesday Night Wars?


All Elite Wrestling’s “Dynamite” currently enjoys a solid ratings edge over WWE’s NXT in the so-called Wednesday Night Wars. AEW and NXT have been going head-to-head on Wedn…




variety.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> AEW vs. NXT Ratings: Who Is Winning the Wednesday Night Wars?
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling’s “Dynamite” currently enjoys a solid ratings edge over WWE’s NXT in the so-called Wednesday Night Wars. AEW and NXT have been going head-to-head on Wedn…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


Both shows are doing fantastically. I hope they really up each other’s game this year. If both can do a minimum of 1.3milli a week by the end of the year, that’s excellent. Maybe with an average of about 1.5


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW vs. NXT Ratings: Who Is Winning the Wednesday Night Wars?


All Elite Wrestling’s “Dynamite” currently enjoys a solid ratings edge over WWE’s NXT in the so-called Wednesday Night Wars. AEW and NXT have been going head-to-head on Wedn…




variety.com


----------



## The Wood

I don't think it's dawned on people that, by and large, AEW has had their "83 weeks." Their TV debut as something new was their nWo angle. They've got nowhere else to go. 

NXT is going to be consistently winning from here on out. This week's show will probably go to AEW because they've promoted the shit out of it, but as NXT ramps up and gets back from their "break," you're going to see either virtual washes and NXT victories from here on out. Those "wins" in 2019 and going to mean nothing when the perception is that one brand has pulled out in front due to quality. It'll be "what have you done for me lately?"


----------



## imthegame19

I guess we finally have proof of AEW doing well in dvr numbers. Other then what Meltzers reporting. Even of Meltzer saying they are still doing 1.4 million with dvr numbers was bit inflated.


----------



## The Wood

And given the way ratings work, I think it should again be pointed out that 822k to 813k is way too close to be called a win. Ratings are estimations through extrapolation. A few people have boxes, and the data is gathered from those boxes. Like polling tells you who took the time to answer a poll, the boxes best tell you who has a box. Nielsen themselves say give or take 10% as a disclaimer, and many networks have thought about unsubscribing because it's too unreliable. 

AEW has had a clear victory once since November. That was on 13 with 957k to NXT's 750k. That's it. The rest have been either washes or NXT wins. And when they wash, given that a lot of people probably watch NXT on the WWE Network the next day, you have to consider it no sweat to WWE. They are tying with their training weights on. Imagine what would happen to that NXT number if they domestically locked NXT on the Network and forced people to watch it on USA. Yes, there will be DVR, but a lot more people would be changing their schedules than I think people realize or want to admit. 

This is not trolling. This is how ratings work. Can anyone reasonably dispute this? Nothing I've said here is a reach. AEW fans just want to take a win however they can, but it pushes reality to the side way too much.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> I guess we finally have proof of AEW doing well in dvr numbers. Other then what Meltzers reporting. Even of Meltzer saying they are still doing 1.4 million with dvr numbers was bit inflated.


It’s a really good sign. But AEW need to figure out this to turn people into live viewers. The thing is, I was thinking - what if AEW went completely online? Fifa did this with the Premier League in December, when they showed matches exclusively on Prime. Could AEW be Netflix’d? There are smart ways of advertising and getting revenue.

if Khan can use his stroke, maybe they can get DARK on Netflix.


----------



## The Wood

The reason people DVR the show is because they want to skip the shit and get to the good bits. This isn't some big mystery. More people would watch the show live if it weren't filled with rubbish.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> Citation needed. I hate WWE and haven’t watched a show since the FOX debut out of morbid curiosity. Would like to see some of this “praise.”


Here you are just 8 days ago telling everyone how great NXT is and that AEW isn't good enough to have a supercard with them.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Here you are just 8 days ago telling everyone how great NXT is and that AEW isn't good enough to have a supercard with them.
> 
> View attachment 81959


How is that praising WWE? I said they really don't match up, which is true. There are some acts that would fit NXT, and I do think they will end up there eventually. I think it's more likely that NXT will work with either New Japan or MLW than they would AEW. Um, I think that's a no-brainer. 

There's nothing in there that even _compliments_ NXT, let alone _praises_ WWE. Do you think it's impossible to talk about something without praising it? 

For the record, I do think NXT is a better show than AEW. But you can't even gleam that from this post. What about it suggests that NXT is great and AEW "isn't good enough?" Lol, get fucked. AEW fans are _so_ insecure.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Sure you can, you said AEW can't match up wiith NXT. That is saying NXT is better. Which is an absolute joke but thats fine because thats how you are.


----------



## The Wood

"You know, I think Sony Pictures is more likely to work with that independent production company on making that film more than they are Disney." 

Here you are praising Sony and shitting all over Disney.


----------



## Garty

TKO Wrestling said:


> Here you are just 8 days ago telling everyone how great NXT is and that AEW isn't good enough to have a supercard with them.
> 
> View attachment 81959


Thank you TKO. Although you know he's going to bang you over the head with some stupid shit that you've said previously, all the while explaining to us that quote you copied is "not what I meant, you're twisting my words to fit your narrative, do you know what comprehension is". 

Hey Wood, you've really got to take a break my man. Your completely over the top ego, just doesn't let you stop, does it?


----------



## Garty

Garty said:


> Thank you TKO. Although you know he's going to bang you over the head with some stupid shit that you've said previously, all the while explaining to us that quote you copied is "not what I meant, you're twisting my words to fir your narrative, do you know what comprehension is".
> 
> Hey Wood, you've really got to take a break my man. Your completely over the top ego, just doesn't let you stop, does it?


Just like clockwork... told 'ya.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> "You know, I think Sony Pictures is more likely to work with that independent production company on making that film more than they are Disney."
> 
> Here you are praising Sony and shitting all over Disney.


Holy shit! Are you for real?!


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Sure you can, you said AEW can't match up wiith NXT. That is saying NXT is better. Which is an absolute joke but thats fine because thats how you are.


I said they really don't match up. I didn't say "AEW can't match up with NXT." For the record, I don't think they can, lol, but that's not the point here: I literally didn't say that. You have taken "they don't really match up," which is a statement about general compatibility, changed it to "AEW can't match up with NXT," and then taken that to mean "NXT is better." That is fucking insane. 

And somehow that is me "praising" WWE. Let's not lose sight of that. AEW not being good enough doesn't mean I'm praising the other guys. If I don't like McDonald's, it doesn't mean I'm praising KFC. I may or may not like KFC. But you can't take my statements about McDonald's, skewer them, and use that as evidence that I worship The Colonel.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Just like clockwork... told 'ya.


This is spam. There's absolutely no valid or useful content in here whatsoever. If you're going to call for people to be banned or censored, you should at least practice by some sort of standard that you are always contributing. This is a vapid waste of space on the board, because you're almost definitely an insecure fanboy who needs others to validate them, so you try to start a pile-on because it makes you feel better about yourself.

TKO said I praise WWE and they have evidence. They came back with that. And that is what the AEW fanboy side is reduced to: just fucking lying.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the mods here are WWE fans and don’t give a crap about making this an AEW forum for AEW fans.
> 
> Damn shame because I spent all these years at WF following TNA. Now I just want to make an AEW forum so we all have a troll free place to talk AEW.


If this is true why was the WWE section filled with people hating on the show constantly for a decade? You guys lasted like a fortnight before you cracked under the negativity of being a wrestling fan. Pretty weak if you ask me.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Looks like 3k sold with 2 days to go.
> 
> not great, but not unsalvageable
> 
> move fans, paper the house with students / try and create some new fans in process


Don't scalpers just go out and buy a bunch of tickets and try sell them on websites these days?


----------



## The Wood

Prediction for this week: AEW drops fucking hard. That show was awful and painful to watch. I think they'll get people back for the ending segment with Jericho. He's never been beaten, but tonight might be the week. I thought AEW had a clear shot at this week, but that was really fucking bad.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, you praise the WWE product. Ive read it. You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Stop spamming our forum and go enjoy the crap show in Stamford.


Imagine how bad a show has to be to have someone actually pick WWE over them though. Doesn't that tell you something? With 7 hours of wrestling a week, there's bound to be something good going on in WWE. AEW have two hours and even have some good stuff. They could do better. Don't you agree?


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Sure you can, you said AEW can't match up wiith NXT. That is saying NXT is better. Which is an absolute joke but thats fine because thats how you are.


Apart from Jericho and a few Cody promos, NXT has been better. A lot of the AEW fans who avoid it are missing out on a good show because of their irrational hatred.


----------



## The Wood

The first FOX SmackDown was easily better television than this week's AEW. Easily. And that NXT episode was good too. I'm sure they don't hit it out of the park every week, and there has no doubt been some shit on there, but this idea that they are so much better than WWE needs to be put to bed.


----------



## The Wood

NXT may not be anything outstanding, in terms of angles, promos, feuds, etc. But it is consistently good. And it can build to stuff. AEW doesn't know what it is or how to get there.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Just like clockwork... told 'ya.


Your post was after his. That's literally not how clocks work


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> Imagine how bad a show has to be to have someone actually pick WWE over them though. Doesn't that tell you something? With 7 hours of wrestling a week, there's bound to be something good going on in WWE. AEW have two hours and even have some good stuff. They could do better. Don't you agree?


What? Everyone should pick WWE over AEW, the fact that they get 800k people a week to choose them when they are brand new just goes to further show how AEW is without a shadow of a doubt off to the best start in the history of wrestling.

You think the XFL will get 1/3rd to 2/5ths of the ratings that the NFL does? And that ratio would be MUCH closer if Dynamite got to run alone on its night like Raw and SDown do.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> The first FOX SmackDown was easily better television than this week's AEW. Easily. And that NXT episode was good too. I'm sure they don't hit it out of the park every week, and there has no doubt been some shit on there, but this idea that they are so much better than WWE needs to be put to bed.


It is certainly better than RAW or SmackDown. I mean the first episode on Fox had the Rock so nothing is going to compete with that. There is some cringe on AEW but nearly everything is better than Flipochet, Humberto, New Day, generic match, lazy writing. If I have to zone out during Marko Stunt/OC/Chuck Taylor/Bucks stuff to enjoy the rest of it, I will keep doing that.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> NXT may not be anything outstanding, in terms of angles, promos, feuds, etc. But it is consistently good. And it can build to stuff. AEW doesn't know what it is or how to get there.


Trevor Lee was just in their main event. Not too shook lol


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> What? Everyone should pick WWE over AEW, the fact that they get 800k people a week to choose them when they are brand new just goes to further show how AEW is without a shadow of a doubt off to the best start in the history of wrestling.
> 
> You think the XFL will get 1/3rd to 2/5ths of the ratings that the NFL does? And that ratio would be MUCH closer if Dynamite got to run alone on its night like Raw and SDown do.


New shows don't need to start behind the line. I don't get why people don't understand that. New can be an advantage in television. 

It's off to the best start in history because it's the _only_ promotion ever started by a billionaire. If it weren't, it would be disappointing in and of itself. But no other promotion has ever been in this position, so it's a moot point. It's also off to the worst start of any promotion ever started by a billionaire.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> New shows don't need to start behind the line. I don't get why people don't understand that. New can be an advantage in television.
> 
> It's off to the best start in history because it's the _only_ promotion ever started by a billionaire. If it weren't, it would be disappointing in and of itself. But no other promotion has ever been in this position, so it's a moot point. It's also off to the worst start of any promotion ever started by a billionaire.


So the XFL is expected to beat the NFL? I mean seriously. This isnt a sitcom.


----------



## The Wood

Lheurch said:


> It is certainly better than RAW or SmackDown. I mean the first episode on Fox had the Rock so nothing is going to compete with that. There is some cringe on AEW but nearly everything is better than Flipochet, Humberto, New Day, generic match, lazy writing. If I have to zone out during Marko Stunt/OC/Chuck Taylor/Bucks stuff to enjoy the rest of it, I will keep doing that.


You're probably right most weeks. But this week of AEW was the worst wrestling I have seen in a long time (granted, it's been a long time since I've watched something modern). 

AEW would kill to get Ricochet, Humberto or The New Day. I know you're not one of these people, but there are people who act like the WWE/NXT guys wouldn't be welcome in AEW, like they aren't all friends or the sort of guys that would work there. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Trevor Lee was just in their main event. Not too shook lol


Case in point. Trevor Lee would be snatched up if he were a free agent, and he'd probably be in the Jurassic Express or something. But AEW fans act like he's some sort of no-talent hack because he isn't in their AEW. It's weird and makes no sense. 

Adam Cole is another example of this. I don't think people realize that if he were a free agent he'd probably be an EVP of the company.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> So the XFL is expected to beat the NFL? I mean seriously. This isnt a sitcom.


There's no demand for a new football league. There has been demand for a new wrestling promotion. That's literally why AEW exists. I don't think a new wrestling promotion would have topped the WWF in 1998 either. That's because they were the choice product.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> You're probably right most weeks. But this week of AEW was the worst wrestling I have seen in a long time (granted, it's been a long time since I've watched something modern).
> 
> AEW would kill to get Ricochet, Humberto or The New Day. I know you're not one of these people, but there are people who act like the WWE/NXT guys wouldn't be welcome in AEW, like they aren't all friends or the sort of guys that would work there.


Well let me clarify I do not hate those guys personally. I just hate their WWE gimmicks. I think Big E could and should be huge in any company he is in. AEW would likely make most of them into better gimmicks. It would be hard to do worse. WWE definitely has the advantage since they have a world class developmental program in NXT that is going to get the majority of the quality available young talent. AEW has no answer for this so far. That is a problem. They either get the disgruntled misused guys (Moxley), the vets who want to be challenged (Jericho), the overlooked guys (most of their roster), or the bottom of the barrel WWE would never sign (OC, Stunt, Taylor).


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> You're probably right most weeks. But this week of AEW was the worst wrestling I have seen in a long time (granted, it's been a long time since I've watched something modern).
> 
> AEW would kill to get Ricochet, Humberto or The New Day. I know you're not one of these people, but there are people who act like the WWE/NXT guys wouldn't be welcome in AEW, like they aren't all friends or the sort of guys that would work there.
> 
> 
> 
> Case in point. Trevor Lee would be snatched up if he were a free agent, and he'd probably be in the Jurassic Express or something. But AEW fans act like he's some sort of no-talent hack because he isn't in their AEW. It's weird and makes no sense.
> 
> Adam Cole is another example of this. I don't think people realize that if he were a free agent he'd probably be an EVP of the company.


As much as I down Adam Cole for not caring about his physical appearance he is still light years ahead of Trevor Lee. I was never happier as an Impact fan as the day he was gone. It was even sweeter than when Hogan finally left which I didnt think was possible.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> There's no demand for a new football league. There has been demand for a new wrestling promotion. That's literally why AEW exists. I don't think a new wrestling promotion would have topped the WWF in 1998 either. That's because they were the choice product.


There is a huge demand for a new football league, that is why there was the AAF and now XFL. People are sick of how pussified the NFL is now with all the helmet rules and the QBs basically playing flag football.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> What? Everyone should pick WWE over AEW, the fact that they get 800k people a week to choose them when they are brand new just goes to further show how AEW is without a shadow of a doubt off to the best start in the history of wrestling.
> 
> You think the XFL will get 1/3rd to 2/5ths of the ratings that the NFL does? And that ratio would be MUCH closer if Dynamite got to run alone on its night like Raw and SDown do.


No, I'm saying that if you want to watch good wrestling you should watch both. Shit, I watch AEW before I watch NXT. But if you choose to not watch NXT at all then you're missing out. Their start has been good but they've been relying on potential and Jericho for too long. They need to be better.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> No, I'm saying that if you want to watch good wrestling you should watch both. Shit, I watch AEW before I watch NXT. But if you choose to not watch NXT at all then you're missing out. Their start has been good but they've been relying on potential and Jericho for too long. They need to be better.


I try I really do. The two times I flipped over to NXT tonight I saw a womens match and then Trevor Lee. Bad timing im sure, I think Riddle is the shit!!!


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Trevor Lee was just in their main event. Not too shook lol


With Trevor Lee in the main event you'd think AEW would flog NXT in the ratings this week right?


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> There is a huge demand for a new football league, that is why there was the AAF and now XFL. People are sick of how pussified the NFL is now with all the helmet rules and the QBs basically playing flag football.


Maybe so. The AAF and Arena Football never really took off. No one watches the CFL. There was something missing, the "it" factor in wrestling terms. I do not see any league succeeding that allows helmet to helmet hits and that stuff with all we know about concussions and CTE now. Certainly not a publicly traded one. If the XFL really does bring something different than the NFL maybe it will work this time. It is a huge uphill battle though.


----------



## The Wood

I do think the Jericho/Mox segment will win. But I can't see the rest of that show holding viewers.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> There is a huge demand for a new football league, that is why there was the AAF and now XFL. People are sick of how pussified the NFL is now with all the helmet rules and the QBs basically playing flag football.


Yeah, people say that, and then the leagues fold. I think the number of people complaining is greatly misjudged when contrasted to the loudness of their voices.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Prediction for this week: AEW drops fucking hard. That show was awful and painful to watch. I think they'll get people back for the ending segment with Jericho. He's never been beaten, but tonight might be the week. I thought AEW had a clear shot at this week, but that was really fucking bad.


You are the most pompous asshole I've ever come across. And over all my years here, there's been quite a few. You keep repeating over and over, how us fans of AEW are wrong about everything we say, or have an opinion about. As you admitted, you use all kinds of charts, graphs, analytics and whatever else you can dust off your shelf to "prove" your opinion. Are you a sports reporter? Own a wrestling news website? Belong to any wrestling-fan group on social media? You sure make yourself out to be a vision of God in that respect.

Think for a minute. I know it's hard, but how is your opinion, my opinion, his opinion, her opinion, Col. Sanders' opinion, ANY better or worse than yours? Your opinion, 100%, trumps all other opinions and you will not let it rest, until we tell you to go fly a kite and then gloat, "see you have no argument, so that means I win." You reply with negativity to every positive opinion, any one of us has. We can't say we like anything AEW and when we do, you're right there to tell us why we're wrong and your reasons why we're wrong. Period. Don't make me go through all of your negative posts, count them up, copy it to a spreadsheet, put that in my vision-blinder machine and have it spit out a list with your post statistics... Something I'd never do because I'd never finish.

I haven't read ahead of what you have posted, so when are you going to give all of us your play-by-play commentary of what happened, minute by minute, hold for hold, how many times... .Maybe you're still writing up your 25,000 word essay, so I'll let you get back to it. 

P.S. I just peaked at your post where you gave us your, "honest and unbiased opinion" where you claim that NXT was far superior than AEW this week. How is that possible? Do you have four eyes and two brains? Do you watch NXT with one eye and AEW with the other eye? Maybe you're a conjoined-twin? Could that be the answer If you do, or are, then I apologize for everything I've said about you.


----------



## Garty

Cult03 said:


> Your post was after his. That's literally not how clocks work


If you didn't realize, or stop for a second to read it, I replied to my own post, just seconds after the original post was uploaded because sure enough, there he was to respond. I didn't even have my post written up yet, before he swooped right in and did exactly what I said he would do.


----------



## Garty

TKO Wrestling said:


> So the XFL is expected to beat the NFL? I mean seriously. This isnt a sitcom.


Don't forget, he's tried this once before and failed in every sense of the word across the board, yet here we are again. Vince and his billions $$$ What a maroon!



Cult03 said:


> With Trevor Lee in the main event you'd think AEW would flog NXT in the ratings this week right?


Yeah, I know it's going to be so hard to figure out which program will have the higher ratings this week. Wait, I've got it! Maybe NXT. Maybe AEW. For comparison sake, it's kind of like when a couple is awaiting the delivery of their unborn child, but don't want to know whether it's a boy or a girl? Yeah. Here's a hint. It's either going to be a boy, or it's going to be a girl. Now, if the woman delivered an alien, a zebra, or a full grown adult, than THAT would be a surprise.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Lheurch said:


> Well let me clarify I do not hate those guys personally. I just hate their WWE gimmicks. I think Big E could and should be huge in any company he is in. AEW would likely make most of them into better gimmicks. It would be hard to do worse. WWE definitely has the advantage since they have a world class developmental program in NXT that is going to get the majority of the quality available young talent. AEW has no answer for this so far. That is a problem. They either get the disgruntled misused guys (Moxley), the vets who want to be challenged (Jericho), the overlooked guys (most of their roster), or the bottom of the barrel WWE would never sign (OC, Stunt, Taylor).


The New Day is their own creation. They are doing, acting, and being exactly who they want to be character wise.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Yeah, I know it's going to be so hard to figure out which program will have the higher ratings this week. Wait, I've got it! Maybe NXT. Maybe AEW. For comparison sake, it's kind of like when a couple is awaiting the delivery of their unborn child, but don't want to know whether it's a boy or a girl? Yeah. Here's a hint. It's either going to be a boy, or it's going to be a girl. Now, if the woman delivered an alien, a zebra, or a full grown adult, than THAT would be a surprise.


What the actual fuck man? I think you've finally lost the plot. How does saying that because Trevor Lee is in the main event, AEW should win the ratings by a lot justify any of that response at all? I don't understand your thought process at all


----------



## Garty

Well sir, you said, "With Trevor Lee in the main event you'd think AEW would flog NXT in the ratings this week right?"

It can be taken it one of two ways. First, you could say that you were being sarcastic. Second, you could be using reverse-psychology here, meaning "should" win because of the main-event. You ended your sentence with the word "right". So it's questionable as to what you actually mean.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Well sir, you said, "With Trevor Lee in the main event you'd think AEW would flog NXT in the ratings this week right?"
> 
> It can be taken it one of two ways. First, you could say that you were being sarcastic. Second, you could be using reverse-psychology here, meaning "should" win because of the main-event. You ended your sentence with the word "right". So it's questionable as to what you actually mean.


It was merely me responding to someone saying they weren't worried about NXT because Lee was in the main event. There's no underlying message. You're acting like a legitimate crazy person


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> If you didn't realize, or stop for a second to read it, I replied to my own post, just seconds after the original post was uploaded because sure enough, there he was to respond. I didn't even have my post written up yet, before he swooped right in and did exactly what I said he would do.


Aren’t you fucking Nostradamus? Predicting a poster on a forum would make a post. Would you like a cookie or to grt



Garty said:


> Well sir, you said, "With Trevor Lee in the main event you'd think AEW would flog NXT in the ratings this week right?"
> 
> It can be taken it one of two ways. First, you could say that you were being sarcastic. Second, you could be using reverse-psychology here, meaning "should" win because of the main-event. You ended your sentence with the word "right". So it's questionable as to what you actually mean.


You are actually a crazy person. 



Garty said:


> You are the most pompous asshole I've ever come across. And over all my years here, there's been quite a few. You keep repeating over and over, how us fans of AEW are wrong about everything we say, or have an opinion about. As you admitted, you use all kinds of charts, graphs, analytics and whatever else you can dust off your shelf to "prove" your opinion. Are you a sports reporter? Own a wrestling news website? Belong to any wrestling-fan group on social media? You sure make yourself out to be a vision of God in that respect.
> 
> Think for a minute. I know it's hard, but how is your opinion, my opinion, his opinion, her opinion, Col. Sanders' opinion, ANY better or worse than yours? Your opinion, 100%, trumps all other opinions and you will not let it rest, until we tell you to go fly a kite and then gloat, "see you have no argument, so that means I win." You reply with negativity to every positive opinion, any one of us has. We can't say we like anything AEW and when we do, you're right there to tell us why we're wrong and your reasons why we're wrong. Period. Don't make me go through all of your negative posts, count them up, copy it to a spreadsheet, put that in my vision-blinder machine and have it spit out a list with your post statistics... Something I'd never do because I'd never finish.
> 
> I haven't read ahead of what you have posted, so when are you going to give all of us your play-by-play commentary of what happened, minute by minute, hold for hold, how many times... .Maybe you're still writing up your 25,000 word essay, so I'll let you get back to it.
> 
> P.S. I just peaked at your post where you gave us your, "honest and unbiased opinion" where you claim that NXT was far superior than AEW this week. How is that possible? Do you have four eyes and two brains? Do you watch NXT with one eye and AEW with the other eye? Maybe you're a conjoined-twin? Could that be the answer If you do, or are, then I apologize for everything I've said about you.


Are you genuinely upset that I back my opinion up with facts and data? Boo-hoo. People are allowed to have different opinions. I find people with reasons for their opinions more interesting. And yes, I love discussing wrestling on a wrestling forum.

If AEW doesn’t want so much of my negativity, why doesn’t it try not sucking so bad?

My opinion isn’t “better” than anyone else’s. That’s a leading way of phrasing it. But I’m confident in what my opinion is based in. When you say something stupid, I’m going to point out why it is stupid. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I’m sure NXT was a “far superior” show (they sound like your words, not mine) because NXT is very consistent and might be many things, but it isn’t amateur hour. AEW was abysmal, and frankly, borderline unwatchable. I’m simply predicting that when the quarters come in, we’ll see lots of drops.


----------



## One Shed

Bloody Warpath said:


> The New Day is their own creation. They are doing, acting, and being exactly who they want to be character wise.


I know that is likely 80% true. It is sad someone like Big E is happy gyrating and throwing pancakes instead of being important.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Bloody Warpath said:


> The New Day is their own creation. They are doing, acting, and being exactly who they want to be character wise.


No way. I refuse to believe that gimmick is what they actually wanted.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> It was merely me responding to someone saying they weren't worried about NXT because Lee was in the main event. There's no underlying message. You're acting like a legitimate crazy person


I just think he is pathetic but I haven’t seen him since Impact so maybe he has improved


----------



## Garty

"If AEW doesn’t want so much of my negativity, why doesn’t it try not sucking so bad?"

I hate to break it to you Wood, but AEW is not asking for "your" negativity. Again, you keep saying that you're trying to help them "not suck" and that your creative genius will solve all of their "problems" if they would just listen to you. Yes, you. The guy who keeps saying he's not using facts with philosophy, whereas I believe you use sophistry reasoning for those facts. Reading your little (I can't believe it) review of the show, everything sucks doesn't it? You keep comparing AEW to every other wrestling promotion that has come before it. I mean, with all of your fact finding missions you keep regurgitating at every positive post and all...

You didn't answer my question of how you can watch two shows at once. How can you be fair and impartial if you're FFing, through all the "bad shit", to get to the "good shit"? If you don't watch the "bad shit", then how do you know it's bad shit? You can't say that you're right because you don't like wrestler "X", or "X" match, making it automatically "bad shit". You have already made up your mind that what you didn't watch, was "bad shit". 

Goodnight


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Don't forget, he's tried this once before and failed in every sense of the word across the board, yet here we are again. Vince and his billions $$$ What a maroon!


I don't follow American football at all, but now that I know Vince McMahon's plan is to sink the money into a football league to sustain it for long enough to potentially get TV rights fees in a few years, and that he's got the money to do it, then yeah, the guy's going to be rolling in it.

Only way it fails is if there is absolutely sub-demand for the XFL, no one watches, no one wants to play even for the moolah, and Vince cannot get those rights. I'd say with the way TV is going, it will fine some sort of life somewhere. 



Garty said:


> "If AEW doesn’t want so much of my negativity, why doesn’t it try not sucking so bad?"
> 
> I hate to break it to you Wood, but AEW is not asking for "your" negativity. Again, you keep saying that you're trying to help them "not suck" and that your creative genius will solve all of their "problems" if they would just listen to you. Yes, you. The guy who keeps saying he's not using facts with philosophy, whereas I believe you use sophistry reasoning for those facts. Reading your little (I can't believe it) review of the show, everything sucks doesn't it? You keep comparing AEW to every other wrestling promotion that has come before it. I mean, with all of your fact finding missions you keep regurgitating at every positive post and all...
> 
> You didn't answer my question of how you can watch two shows at once. How can you be fair and impartial if you're FFing, through all the "bad shit", to get to the "good shit"? If you don't watch the "bad shit", then how do you know it's bad shit? You can't say that you're right because you don't like wrestler "X", or "X" match, making it automatically "bad shit". You have already made up your mind that what you didn't watch, was "bad shit".
> 
> Goodnight


Honest question: Are you okay? You seem to be spasming pretty hard there. I didn't mean to fry your brain and cause you serious mental anguish or anything. I'll respond, but look after your mental health, dude. 

It's a figure of speech, Garty. I'm not sending this shit into AEW, lol. I'm just telling people on a forum why the shit they do isn't working. My point is, if they don't want the label of bad wrestling, don't be bad wrestling. It's real simple. If they were good, I'd call them good. Deal? 

I don't know what your facts with philosophy point is. I'm actually genuinely lost because you make no sense here. I think I do back up my opinion with facts. That would be mixing facts with philosophy. Again, I'm lost. 

Um, I actually watched this week. I have a day off, so I figured why not? My commentary is because I was watching the show. I've never denied that I did watch. I don't know where you've pulled this from. 

I didn't answer your question of how I watched two shows at once because I didn't watch two shows at once. I just know AEW was really bad, lol. NXT would at least be consistent if unspectacular. That's just the established trend by now. But people do watch two shows at once sometimes. They'll pop something on the TV and something on the laptop and see what catches their eye. I didn't do that, but I don't know why you're stuck on this.


----------



## bdon

You do realize Vince has failed miserably at football before, right? You know why? Because the NFL has generational history backing it. Had he been given enough time, then I think there would have been a place for it.

Sound familiar?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> You do realize Vince has failed miserably at football before, right? You know why? Because the NFL has generational history backing it. Had he been given enough time, then I think there would have been a place for it.
> 
> Sound familiar?


Yeah, of course. But TV was very different back then. The plan now is to sink money in for three years or whatever until the TV rights come in, then get paid out the ass and recoup all losses. It's very different from an environment where the product had to succeed and/or be hot in 2001. 

If no one watches and no one wants to play with them because it ruins their chance at the NFL, then it's possible this fizzles and Vince doesn't get the TV rights he's looking for. But the plan is to sustain this shit at a loss for a while and hope that TV needs something like that in a few years, which is a much safer plan than a lot of people are prescribing.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Yeah, of course. But TV was very different back then. The plan now is to sink money in for three years or whatever until the TV rights come in, then get paid out the ass and recoup all losses. It's very different from an environment where the product had to succeed and/or be hot in 2001.
> 
> If no one watches and no one wants to play with them because it ruins their chance at the NFL, then it's possible this fizzles and Vince doesn't get the TV rights he's looking for. But the plan is to sustain this shit at a loss for a while and hope that TV needs something like that in a few years, which is a much safer plan than a lot of people are prescribing.


If I had to guess, the conspiracy theorist in me says he’s dumbing down WWE to the point that it can run itself, get a ratings“good enough”, and sell to Disney/Fox for billions.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> If I had to guess, the conspiracy theorist in me says he’s dumbing down WWE to the point that it can run itself, get a ratings“good enough”, and sell to Disney/Fox for billions.


I don't think it's a conspiracy theory at all. I'd say there's a very, very good chance of it.


----------



## Gh0stFace

I can pretty much sum up what The Wood and Dude want: soap operas. Most younger viewers and AEW fans want an action movie. They want to see something different. This is why WWE is consistently winning in 50+ because they'll never grow out of their tightly set biases.

I mean Janella put his differences aside to feud with Sabin after getting dumped by Penelope Cruz that's gotta count for something. AEW is trying to please everyone, but people are so hard to please these days. Instead of just enjoying it for what it is, I can't understand, why they whine, complain and nitpick every little thing. Just take it easy bros, it's fake fighting


----------



## Gh0stFace

Garty said:


> Yeah, I know it's going to be so hard to figure out which program will have the higher ratings this week. Wait, I've got it! Maybe NXT. Maybe AEW. For comparison sake, it's kind of like when a couple is awaiting the delivery of their unborn child, but don't want to know whether it's a boy or a girl? Yeah. Here's a hint. It's either going to be a boy, or it's going to be a girl. Now, if the woman delivered an alien, a zebra, or a full grown adult, than THAT would be a surprise.


I am dying LMFAO WTF DID I JUST READ


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> "If AEW doesn’t want so much of my negativity, why doesn’t it try not sucking so bad?"
> 
> I hate to break it to you Wood, but AEW is not asking for "your" negativity. Again, you keep saying that you're trying to help them "not suck" and that your creative genius will solve all of their "problems" if they would just listen to you. Yes, you. The guy who keeps saying he's not using facts with philosophy, whereas I believe you use sophistry reasoning for those facts. Reading your little (I can't believe it) review of the show, everything sucks doesn't it? You keep comparing AEW to every other wrestling promotion that has come before it. I mean, with all of your fact finding missions you keep regurgitating at every positive post and all...
> 
> You didn't answer my question of how you can watch two shows at once. How can you be fair and impartial if you're FFing, through all the "bad shit", to get to the "good shit"? If you don't watch the "bad shit", then how do you know it's bad shit? You can't say that you're right because you don't like wrestler "X", or "X" match, making it automatically "bad shit". You have already made up your mind that what you didn't watch, was "bad shit".
> 
> Goodnight


Woodsy needs to open his/her/them’s own promotion mate.... show these plebs how its done


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> I guess we finally have proof of AEW doing well in dvr numbers. Other then what Meltzers reporting. Even of Meltzer saying they are still doing 1.4 million with dvr numbers was bit inflated.


per someone else here, since I don't sub, what he actually said was between 1.2-1.4. so people just glomed on to the 1.4 and conveniently did mention that he stated a range. Im sure Variety won't be a good enough source for those guys anyway so they will still be asking for proof lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Gh0stFace said:


> I am dying LMFAO WTF DID I JUST READ


Garty has gone crazy ?


----------



## Jonhern

Garty said:


> "If AEW doesn’t want so much of my negativity, why doesn’t it try not sucking so bad?"
> 
> I hate to break it to you Wood, but AEW is not asking for "your" negativity. Again, you keep saying that you're trying to help them "not suck" and that your creative genius will solve all of their "problems" if they would just listen to you. Yes, you. The guy who keeps saying he's not using facts with philosophy, whereas I believe you use sophistry reasoning for those facts. Reading your little (I can't believe it) review of the show, everything sucks doesn't it? You keep comparing AEW to every other wrestling promotion that has come before it. I mean, with all of your fact finding missions you keep regurgitating at every positive post and all...
> 
> You didn't answer my question of how you can watch two shows at once. How can you be fair and impartial if you're FFing, through all the "bad shit", to get to the "good shit"? If you don't watch the "bad shit", then how do you know it's bad shit? You can't say that you're right because you don't like wrestler "X", or "X" match, making it automatically "bad shit". You have already made up your mind that what you didn't watch, was "bad shit".
> 
> Goodnight


just ignore him, or at least don't quote him in your body so that those who do ignore don't have to see his BS. This thread is so much better without him and his lot. Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## imthegame19

Jonhern said:


> per someone else here, since I don't sub, what he actually said was between 1.2-1.4. so people just glomed on to the 1.4 and conveniently did mention that he stated a range. Im sure Variety won't be a good enough source for those guys anyway so they will still be asking for proof lol.


Lol yeah Khan Family must have Variety on payroll too.


----------



## One Shed

Garty said:


> Yeah, I know it's going to be so hard to figure out which program will have the higher ratings this week. Wait, I've got it! Maybe NXT. Maybe AEW. For comparison sake, it's kind of like when a couple is awaiting the delivery of their unborn child, but don't want to know whether it's a boy or a girl? Yeah. Here's a hint. It's either going to be a boy, or it's going to be a girl. Now, if the woman delivered an alien, a zebra, or a full grown adult, than THAT would be a surprise.


A boy or a girl? Clearly you have never been on Twitter or Tumblr  The world is going nuts.


----------



## ClintDagger

Bloody Warpath said:


> The New Day is their own creation. They are doing, acting, and being exactly who they want to be character wise.


Is that “exactly” what they want to do or is it them pitching something that they think Vince will like enough to feature them? I’m sure it has made them the max amount of money given they work for Vince. But I can’t imagine they wouldn’t rather be a more serious act if the framework was different. But as it is, the New Day stuff is as much as Vince is willing to give them given the framework of WWE.


----------



## The Dude

A PG Attitude said:


> This thread is becoming insufferable. Can we stop with the essay long pissing contests. Cheers


yes, everyone let’s go back to praising everything this company craps out as to not offend anyone


----------



## Jonhern

AEW .36 Demo 947k Viewers (6th) // NXT not in top 50, will have to wait until top 150 is posted. So big win for AEW this week in the "war".


----------



## Ace

Jonhern said:


> AEW .36 Demo 947k Viewers (6th) // NXT not in top 50, will have to wait until top 150 is posted. So big win for AEW this week in the "war".


 Are you sure that's real?

I can't see NXT falling that much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> AEW .36 Demo 947k Viewers (6th) // NXT not in top 50, will have to wait until top 150 is posted. So big win for AEW this week in the "war".


That is last week, isn’t it?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Not bad. They retained pretty well from last week.

Goes to show you how important a strong main event is. The rest of the show has sucked hard, but the main event has kept people's interest.

We'll see if Moxley and Jericho can continue to carry the show on their backs.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That is last week, isn’t it?


nope this week. 


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Final-Cable-2020-Jan-08-WED.png


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That is weird - i’m just gonna wait for them to publish the article


----------



## bdon

I told y’all that was an awesome show last night.


----------



## llj

If NXT did that badly, lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

..... but if true.....

did every wrestling fan over 50 just die? 

ps> reminder to self - don’t rub it in, AEW wasn’t that great this week

don’t rub it in
don’t rub it in


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... but if true.....
> 
> did every wrestling fan over 50 just die?


"The average age of NXT fans is dead."

- MJF


----------



## qntntgood

Jonhern said:


> AEW .36 Demo 947k Viewers (6th) // NXT not in top 50, will have to wait until top 150 is posted. So big win for AEW this week in the "war".


Again I will ask what was highest rated segment,was it the matches or storylines.this week was not best dynamite,is was okay but if storylines are the highest rated part of the show.then aew might go in a different direction,more story and a little less wrestling.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... but if true.....
> 
> did every wrestling fan over 50 just die?
> 
> ps> reminder to self - don’t rub it in, AEW wasn’t that great this week
> 
> don’t rub it in
> don’t rub it in


I loved the show and thought it was ALL awesome, minus the fact they redone the Pac and Nakazawa angle again.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not surprising. I flipped to NXT a few times. They had a 30 minute womens match to open the show and the rest was a bunch of jobbers and guys from NXT UK nobody knows. Hell, Cameron Grimes was in the main event. Jeesh.


----------



## Chan Hung

So NXT already off the radar? Well they had a semi shit lineup. They were doing well a couple weeks ago. AEW if they held close to 1 million then good. The show was meh but good for them


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... but if true.....
> 
> did every wrestling fan over 50 just die?
> 
> ps> reminder to self - don’t rub it in, AEW wasn’t that great this week
> 
> don’t rub it in
> don’t rub it in


As this is a demo list, it doesnt matter if nxt has 2m vievers, if the demo is low it is not on the list. But please rub, you have all right to, when everyone in here thinks the show was average but still got people watching. Get out the fireworks and write it in the sky


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... but if true.....
> 
> did every wrestling fan over 50 just die?
> 
> ps> reminder to self - don’t rub it in, AEW wasn’t that great this week
> 
> don’t rub it in
> don’t rub it in


no, its more that all the young viewers stoped watching lowering their demo rating. All the 50+ could still be watching, wont know till we see total viewers number.


----------



## imthegame19

I'm guessing DDP and MJF segment did well. But I bet Moxley and Jericho did big numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Question - if NXT did 900k

but very low in the demo - and then as a result out of top 50

can we all agree that the Demo matters more?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> no, its more that all the young viewers stoped watching lowering their demo rating. All the 50+ could still be watching, wont know till we see total viewers number.


100% true

i forgot the over 50 does not “count” to the rankings - my bad


----------



## Ace

lmao so it's real?

Damn NXT fell off hard this week then. Didn't even make the top 50 which means their demo was less than 0.2.


----------



## Jonhern

55th WWE NXT: WWE NXT USA NETWORK 8:00 PM 0.19 demo 721k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shit.... its true





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 1.8.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## imthegame19

Really nice hold for AEW. Hopefully they can keep building on this with big Bash at the Beach show


----------



## IamMark

55WWE NXT: WWE NXTUSA NETWORK8:00 PM1270.19721

WOW ! 
That key demo is freakin' LOW!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oh well - I don’t care about NXT

for AEW - pretty good rating - great even, with a mediocre show

but... they obvs kept the viewers

neither Brandy nor Marko ‘killed the business’

so....


----------



## Ace

Back to the numbers they were doing before Survivor Series?

Interesting. 

Is it a one off or have they lost the viewers they got from the SS angle?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.... this thread is gonna be cancer


----------



## fabi1982

Ace said:


> Back to the numbers they were doing before Survivor Series?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Is it a one off or have they lost the viewers they got from the SS angle?


Just watch next weeks show having some RR stuff with main roster and probably Shanya is actually winning the rumble. But sad if they actually lost the viewers as the shows the last couple weeks were very good


----------



## llj

Ace said:


> Back to the numbers they were doing before Survivor Series?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Is it a one off or have they lost the viewers they got from the SS angle?


Their total viewers is about the same, but they have bled a ton in the demo since their USA debut.

Now it's just old people I guess

Also they should seriously rethink the Shayna v Becky idea for WM.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oh well - I don’t care about NXT
> 
> for *AEW - pretty good rating - great even, with a mediocre show*
> 
> but... they obvs kept the viewers
> 
> neither Brandy nor Marko ‘killed the business’
> 
> so....


RAW did 2.4M with a show only hyping a wedding.

Casuals tend to like what we (wrestling fans) find bad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> RAW did 2.4M with a show only hyping a wedding.
> 
> Casuals tend to like what we (wrestling fans) find bad.


no argument there

then again their numbers didn’t spike either - just stable

but, good rating


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ace said:


> Back to the numbers they were doing before Survivor Series?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Is it a one off or have they lost the viewers they got from the SS angle?



Its not a shock the coincides with the start of the Dusty cup. American wrestling fans don't want tournaments with a bunch of people they barely know wrestling for 15 minutes. Young adults are more into sex and violence than ever. The idea that went away with South Park and Howard Stern and the attitude era is nonsense. Thats why the idea AEW should go a G1 style tourney is laughable. American wrestling fans dont care. Its not a sport to them.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oh well - I don’t care about NXT
> 
> for AEW - pretty good rating - great even, with a mediocre show
> 
> but... they obvs kept the viewers
> 
> neither Brandy nor Marko ‘killed the business’
> 
> so....


Even with the slight drop in total viewers they matched last week's demo and went back into the top 10.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dynamite was shit this week huh ?

AEW starting off the year strong.

Theyll crack that 1 milli by June I think.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.........

fuck......

i wonder if I should ‘un-ignore’ Woods, Cult03 and a couple others just for this week

will it be worth it?  ?


----------



## Chan Hung

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not surprising. I flipped to NXT a few times. They had a 30 minute womens match to open the show and the rest was a bunch of jobbers and guys from NXT UK nobody knows. Hell, Cameron Grimes was in the main event. Jeesh.


I have to agree here they pretty much put out a miserable lineup and the matches were super long and they were mostly uneventful and they had a lot of potential good stories that didn't put on here and the main event was meh


----------



## imthegame19

So is USA gonna pull NXT? Time to be back on WWE Network. Just kidding and teasing All the trolls who where saying TNT was gonna pull plug on AEW after that December 18th bad rating haha.


----------



## Peerless

Moxley's drawing power>>>


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .........
> 
> fuck......
> 
> i wonder if I should ‘un-ignore’ Woods, Cult03 and a couple others just for this week
> 
> will it be worth it?  ?


Don't Feed the Trolls!


----------



## RiverFenix

What was the first match on NXT? Because Page/Hangman vs Private Party was pretty damn good and the crowd was hot as hell to start. And when AEW lost big on the last show before Christmas they were up against Cole vs Balor title match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Peerless said:


> Moxley's drawing power>>>


Marko and Orange Cassidy super draws ?‍♂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> Don't Feed the Trolls!


you speak sanity brother - i will heed your words ?


----------



## imthegame19

Chan Hung said:


> I have to agree here they pretty much put out a miserable lineup and the matches were super long and they were mostly uneventful and they had a lot of potential good stories that didn't put on here and the main event was meh


Don't be surprise if Moxley and Jericho stuff did well. Along with DDP and MJF stuff. NXT had a pretty weak show too. So it wasn't hard to keep show on AEW this week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I can see the excuses already being talked about in the thread LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

fucking losers


----------



## imthegame19

I also bet Rhodes brothers drew well too. First hour probably did ok I wouldn't be surprised if final hour did over million viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> I can see the excuses already being talked about in the thread LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> fucking losers


Shouldn't be. NXT put on a miserable unimportant show and the numbers reflect such.


----------



## Tilon

NXT stacked half their card with women's matches. At home, the piss break match turns into a change the channel match.

It being scripted doesn't change athletics. That only works in movies and anime.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Marko Stunt drawing power greater than Gargano and Finn Balor combined


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I can see the excuses already being talked about in the thread LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> fucking losers


_I want to see_
* but my sanity*
_but i want to see_
_but my ignore list is now perfect_

....... screenshots plzzzz?


----------



## AEW_19

Welp...I don't know shit ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Shouldn't be. NXT put on a miserable unimportant show and the numbers reflect such.


----------



## rbl85

Sometimes you need some boring weeks to build storylines.

In every book there is always a few boring chapters that lead to some awesome chapters, the same for TV series, some episodes of GOT were boring but you knew that those épisodes were needed.


----------



## ClintDagger

Really good number. Wish that demo was just a little bit higher but hard to complain with well over 900k. I think the Mox / Jericho tease and saving that for last really drew for them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah, have to admit - even though the show was average, they did progress a lot of the narrative

a ‘3rd act’ type of show


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


>


Not sure what that means. AEW retained last weeks audience and thats good. The execution of their show isnt great, BUT, at least they're putting MJF, Cody, Omega, Mox, Jericho, and Page on every show like they should have been from the beginning.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> _I want to see_
> * but my sanity*
> _but i want to see
> but my ignore list is now perfect_
> 
> ....... screenshots plzzzz?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah, have to admit - even though the show was average, they did progress a lot of the narrative
> 
> a ‘3rd act’ type of show


The problem is we want every show to be a mini PPV but it's not possible.


----------



## RapShepard

Watching the arguing and excuses every week is a delight. AEW wins there's gloating from fans and excuses from non-fans. If AEW loses there's gloating from non-fans and excuses from fans. No matter what happens it's always a fun mess.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Fire Marko Stunt huh


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Not shocked. AEW was awesome last night and the two times I flipped over to NXT I saw a boring ass womans match and then Trevor Lee in the main event lmao. Could you imagine Chuck Taylor in an AEW main event? Me neither.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 81982
> View attachment 81983
> View attachment 81984







they’re gonna blame the name ‘Dusty Rhodes’ aren’t they  

perfect


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Watching the arguing and excuses every week is a delight. AEW wins there's gloating from fans and excuses from non-fans. If AEW loses there's gloating from non-fans and excuses from fans. No matter what happens it's always a fun mess.


this aint gloating bro, this me laughing at those idiots who think they know what they're talking about


when at the end of it, we don't fucking know what the regular viewer wants


----------



## One Shed

They definitely have to be happy with that number. Great start for 2020 so far.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Watching the arguing and excuses every week is a delight. AEW wins there's gloating from fans and excuses from non-fans. If AEW loses there's gloating from non-fans and excuses from fans. No matter what happens it's always a fun mess.


it is fun

as someone who just loves the numbers of it all, its almost like a 2nd night of wrestling


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> this aint gloating bro, this me laughing at those idiots who think they know what they're talking about
> 
> 
> when at the end of it, we don't fucking know what the regular viewer wants


It's definitely gloating lol, but gloat away if AEW had loss the other side would certainly be calling AEW fans and the company idiots who don't know wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Confirmed

Marko / Orange Cassidy draws more than your favourite


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is fun
> 
> as someone who just loves the numbers of it all, its almost like a 2nd night of wrestling


One of the funnest things about competing fandoms. They buddy buddy shit is great. But sometimes you just want to tell folk "hey fuck what you like, my shits better" lol


----------



## qntntgood

imthegame19 said:


> I also bet Rhodes brothers drew well too. First hour probably did ok I wouldn't be surprised if final hour did over million viewers.


That would be interesting if,did because that would mean aew could get those numbers they lost.back to a million or higher,given the right storyline or chance.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> It's definitely gloating lol, but gloat away if AEW had loss the other side would certainly be calling AEW fans and the company idiots who don't know wrestling.


the thing is im a fan of NXT as well. i've made is clear many times that I want both shows to succeed. The viewer potential is there. 

Of course i'll be called an AEW diehard. But that's by the usual lot who don't actually watch either show.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Don't be surprise if Moxley and Jericho stuff did well.


Why would anyone be surprised? Everyone knows by now who the top two draws in AEW, by a wide margin, are. It's these two guys.

The way they left things off last week, with Moxley stating that he would give his decision this week, is the whole reason why they retained so well.


----------



## Brodus Clay

It's obviously thanks to Hangman alcoholic gimmick, give more beer to that man.


----------



## ClintDagger

1/8/20 episode of Dynamite (out of 14 shows):
*7th best demo number since premiere.
*7th best overall number since premiere.
*5th best demo ranking since premiere.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> One of the funnest things about competing fandoms. They buddy buddy shit is great. But sometimes you just want to tell folk "hey fuck what you like, my shits better" lol


Hahaha - well said mate - too true

our primal instinct to say ‘i know better than you’

next week, we all know it can tumble down again


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> the thing is im a fan of NXT as well. i've made is clear many times that I want both shows to succeed. The viewer potential is there.
> 
> Of course i'll be called an AEW diehard. But that's by the usual lot who don't actually watch either show.


I watch all 4 shows on major TV so I get it. It's definitely weird that folk act like you can only enjoy 1.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 81982
> View attachment 81983
> View attachment 81984



Hows that an excuse? NXT was abysmal coming off a week off and did a horrible number. If they keep putting on shows like that then AEW will continue to beat them and rightfully so. 

Like i said, AEW deserves credit for keeping the STARS on the show and building the storylines around them. Even if they're not executed well. You can hate the collective, but people know who Brandi is, shes nice to look at and Kong has always been a star.

No one gives a shit or fuck about Joey Janela kidnapping someone. Keep that shit on Dark. The last two weeks they have and magically the numbers are solid. I didnt think the show was good last night, but stars carry the day sometimes. I bet you could back at a lot of classic RAWs and go..jesus that was some shitty shit. But sometimes shitty shit is alright if people are invested in the people involved in the shitty shit.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> I watch all 4 shows on major TV so I get it. It's definitely weird that folk act like you can only enjoy 1.


I blame the original war; I reckon it stems from that.

I can understand if there's a preference. But when it comes to acting like your opinion is highly regarded as factual, that's when shit is unnecessary. Oh well.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one gives a shit or fuck about Joey Janela kidnapping someone.


Another guy expressing his opinion as a fact. This is why I can't take any of your posts seriously. We do NOT know what the regular viewer wants. You see everyone hating on Corbin on WF, but who the fuck actually knows how he sits among the regular viewers.


----------



## Jedah

Great rating, a lot more than this episode deserved, that's for sure.

That shows the importance of opening and closing well, though, because the first and last segments were good, much better than anything on NXT, though NXT had the more consistent show from start to finish. AEW had higher peaks and much, much lower valleys.

Let's hope they don't take the wrong lessons from this rating and give us more Brandi. Sadly, that likely won't be the case.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Another guy expressing his opinion as a fact. This is why I can't take any of your posts seriously. We do NOT know what the regular viewer wants. You see everyone hating on Corbin on WF, but who the fuck actually knows how he sits among the regular viewers.


Magically stuff like that hasnt been on the show in two weeks and theyve done 900k plus each time. Must be magic.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Jonhern said:


> just ignore him, or at least don't quote him in your body so that those who do ignore don't have to see his BS. This thread is so much better without him and his lot. Don't feed the trolls.


That's one nice feature of this new forum -- you don't see people you ignore, even when they're quoted. You see posts where they are responded to, but you don't see what's been quoted. Almost makes it worth all the other forum shit we lost!



Jonhern said:


> AEW .36 Demo 947k Viewers (6th) // NXT not in top 50, will have to wait until top 150 is posted. So big win for AEW this week in the "war".


If that's true, that's just sweeet. I was mixed on a lot of the first hour of Dynamite, but I could see last night that a lot of people loved it. Hey, I can live with that if that's what it takes to keep and grow their audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Magically stuff like that hasnt been on the show in two weeks and theyve done 900k plus each time. Must be magic.


Marko Stunt was on last night. Does that mean he's a draw and we can stop talking about how he's negatively affecting the product?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jedah said:


> Great rating, a lot more than this episode deserved, that's for sure.
> 
> That shows the importance of opening and closing well, though, because the first and last segments were good, much better than anything on NXT, though NXT had the more consistent show from start to finish. AEW had higher peaks and much, much lower valleys.
> 
> *Let's hope they don't take the wrong lessons from this rating and give us more Brandi.* Sadly, that likely won't be the case.


and if her segment did well.... they might need to learn from that too and we might need to understand that as well


----------



## Alright_Mate

Ratings are proving that Moxley is the biggest draw, whenever he is scheduled AEW tend to do a decent rating. 

Their poorest ratings reflect the quality of the shows, when Jericho faced Scorpio Sky for the title and had that mini programme with Jungle Boy, AEW shit the bed.

AEW produced some terrible moments last night but when certain guys are advertised they tend to keep a good rating.

I think they'll continue to yo-yo between 900k-700k for the foreseeable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> That's one nice feature of this new forum -- you don't see people you ignore, even when they're quoted. You see posts where they are responded to, but you don't see what's been quoted. Almost makes it worth all the other forum shit we lost!
> 
> 
> 
> If that's true, that's just sweeet. I was mixed on a lot of the first hour of Dynamite, but I could see last night that a lot of people loved it. Hey, I can live with that if that's what it takes to keep and grow their audience.


hey Reg

i was mixed on last night as well - average show

but as somebody pointed out - it was a kind of ‘move the story forward’ show

so... i ended up giving it a pass. Like a D+ 

still, the rating is very good for an average show


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Wait

let's not forget about freshly squeezed Orange Cassidy. He doesn't harm the product?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... but if true.....
> 
> *did every wrestling fan over 50 just die? *
> 
> ps> reminder to self - don’t rub it in, AEW wasn’t that great this week
> 
> don’t rub it in
> don’t rub it in


Not all of us, we just don't have Nielsen boxes. God help them all when we do.

But fuck it, rub it in. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> .........
> 
> fuck......
> 
> i wonder if I should ‘un-ignore’ Woods, Cult03 and a couple others just for this week
> 
> will it be worth it?  ?


Good lord, NO.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Wait
> 
> let's not forget about freshly squeezed Orange Cassidy. He doesn't harm the product?


Let’s all ignore he gets Top 5 tier pops in all of wrestling

but we have to Puro stan everything ?‍♂


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey Reg
> 
> i was mixed on last night as well - average show
> 
> but as somebody pointed out - it was a kind of ‘move the story forward’ show
> 
> so... i ended up giving it a pass. Like a D+
> 
> still, the rating is very good for an average show


I didn't think it was that bad -- a couple of segments on their own were maybe D+, but the show as a whole was an easy B/B-, with that final segment inching it up closer to a solid B. All it takes is a killer segment or two and some good wrestling, and I can forgive a lot of ills. Not as good as the first few weeks, but still nowhere near WWE's unforgivably imperceptible crap-to-cool-stuff ratio.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Let’s all ignore he gets Top 5 tier pops in all of wrestling
> 
> but we have to Puro stan everything ?‍♂


but then why didn't nxt do very well ? it's because they gave us a WRESTLING TOURNAMENT. who watches pro-wrestling for puro rwestling?


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Marko Stunt was on last night. Does that mean he's a draw and we can stop talking about how he's negatively affecting the product?


Ive never said Stunt shouldn't be on the show. Do I find it embarassing that he is? Yeah. But if his quarter hours are good and hes attracting viewers, by all means go for it. Im not here to bend them to my idea of pro wrestling, i want them to get as much viewership as possible. Thats the goal.

Im overly critical of AEW because I want them to be a legit challenger to WWE in 5 years. I want that. But i dont even really hate a lot of the stuff the pro AEW forever marks hate. 

I dont mind the collective to be honest. I dont care what shes doing, if Brandis fine ass is on TV my eyes are there. Im always down for Kong too. Its just that I dont think they have the roster depth for all this shit. Who the fuck is Melanie Carter? Who the fuck is this Uncle Fester looking guy? A deathmatch Japan wrestler thats 55? What the fuck? Why do I care about any of them?

Same with the Order. I dont really mind the idea, but who the fuck is Stu Grayson? Who the fuck are these job guys from Dark and why are they in this angle? Why the hell would I care if the guy who does the Young Bucks clothes is under one of the masks? Its shit like that that bothers me. All of it seems rushed and flung at the wall.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> Why would anyone be surprised? Everyone knows by now who the top two draws in AEW, by a wide margin, are. It's these two guys.
> 
> The way they left things off last week, with Moxley stating that he would give his decision this week, is the whole reason why they retained so well.


I meant to say I wouldn't be surprised if they do over million viewers.


----------



## Ham and Egger

A strong rating from a strong show from start to finish. I wonder what will it take for them to crack their viewership up to a million again but with the quality they're producing will get them there.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Ive never said Stunt shouldn't be on the show. Do I find it embarassing that he is? Yeah. But if his quarter hours are good and hes attracting viewers, by all means go for it. Im not here to bend them to my idea of pro wrestling, i want them to get as much viewership as possible. Thats the goal.
> 
> Im overly critical of AEW because I want them to be a legit challenger to WWE in 5 years. I want that. But i dont even really hate a lot of the stuff the pro AEW forever marks hate.
> 
> I dont mind the collective to be honest. I dont care what shes doing, if Brandis fine ass is on TV my eyes are there. Im always down for Kong too. Its just that I dont think they have the roster depth for all this shit. Who the fuck is Melanie Carter? Who the fuck is this Uncle Fester looking guy? A deathmatch Japan wrestler thats 55? What the fuck? Why do I care about any of them?
> 
> Same with the Order. I dont really mind the idea, but who the fuck is Stu Grayson? Who the fuck are these job guys from Dark and why are they in this angle? Why the hell would I care if the guy who does the Young Bucks clothes is under one of the masks? Its shit like that that bothers me. All of it seems rushed and flung at the wall.


Look at your posts in the Dynamite discussion thread dummy. You literally shat all over the Episode and then they pull this rating out.

Simply put, you don't have any clue what the people want. I don't have a clue what the people want. Nobody here does. 

If you are overly critical of AEW so much, stick to WWE. You and few others make this section unbearable. I know that if AEW's rating was shit, you would've been ITT like "hAh i tOlD YoU So gUyS, nObOdY WaNtS To wAtCh mArKo sTuNt. ThAtS WhY RaNdY OrToN DiDn't sIgN"


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Look at your posts in the Dynamite discussion thread dummy. You literally shat all over the Episode and then they pull this rating out.
> 
> Simply put, you don't have any clue what the people want. I don't have a clue what the people want. Nobody here does.
> 
> If you are overly critical of AEW so much, stick to WWE. You and few others make this section unbearable. I know that if AEW's rating was shit, you would've been ITT like "hAh i tOlD YoU So gUyS, nObOdY WaNtS To wAtCh mArKo sTuNt. ThAtS WhY RaNdY OrToN DiDn't sIgN"



I didnt think the show was good, but Im not mad they did a good number. Im all for every wrestling company doing well. Opens the market for TV in the future for maybe lesser companies if its proven that pro wrestling on TV is still a commodity.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

NXT was coming off of essentially a two week break while AEW was coming off of a widely regarded strong episode. AEW was able to retain most of their numbers from last week while NXT gained nearly 200K from their awards show. Now we wait till next week to see of AEW lost any of their viewers due to the Nightmare Collective fiasco and what has been regarded as a very meh episode.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I didn't think it was that bad -- a couple of segments on their own were maybe D+, but the show as a whole was an easy B/B-, with that final segment inching it up closer to a solid B. All it takes is a killer segment or two and some good wrestling, and I can forgive a lot of ills. Not as good as the first few weeks, but still nowhere near WWE's unforgivably imperceptible crap-to-cool-stuff ratio.


fair assesment

I did watch it at 4 in the morning when I couldn't sleep

so, I guess that didn't help


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> I didnt think the show was good, but Im not mad they did a good number. Im all for every wrestling company doing well. Opens the market for TV in the future for maybe lesser companies if its proven that pro wrestling on TV is still a commodity.


so then dawg, AEW are doing things that you don't like. They are doing it to draw regular viewers. The product is not made for you. Complaining as you do makes the section unbearable for the people who actually enjoy the product. If you dont enjoy, turn the product off.


Get your "Im aLl fOr eVeRy wReStLiNg cOmPaNy dOiNg wElL" headass out of here.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> so then dawg, AEW are doing things that you don't like. They are doing it to draw regular viewers. The product is not made for you. Complaining as you do makes the section unbearable for the people who actually enjoy the product. If you dont enjoy, turn the product off.
> 
> 
> Get your "Im aLl fOr eVeRy wReStLiNg cOmPaNy dOiNg wElL" headass out of here.



Of course its made for me. If pro wrestling is on my TV ill most likely watch it, bad or good. For example, I love NWA Powerrr. If you were to post that studio wrestling with more than half the show being promos is dumb, I wouldnt mind that. Its a legit critique. For example as well, I dont like intergender wrestling that much, but if Sami and Tessa sell the place out and pop a buyrate, awesome. Good. 

And if I bother you that much, you can put me on ignore like Im sure a lot of other people here have lol. I mean Ive always liked you as a poster, not sure where your vitriol is coming from, but thats your right.


----------



## Taroostyles

Where are all those people who were proclaiming the end when NXT won the 2 weeks after all that main roster promotion?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Taroostyles said:


> Where are all those people who were proclaiming the end when NXT won the 2 weeks after all that main roster promotion?


..... they're over 50 mate, they're in bed

Not all over 50 year olds can be strong stallions like Reg!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Of course its made for me. If pro wrestling is on my TV ill most likely watch it, bad or good. For example, I love NWA Powerrr. If you were to post that studio wrestling with more than half the show being promos is dumb, I wouldnt mind that. Its a legit critique. For example as well, I dont like intergender wrestling that much, but if Sami and Tessa sell the place out and pop a buyrate, awesome. Good.
> 
> And if I bother you that much, you can put me on ignore like Im sure a lot of other people here have lol. I mean Ive always liked you as a poster, not sure where your vitriol is coming from, but thats your right.


Nah in all honesty, i know you actually watch the product. So it's not personal, but I dont get the point of shitting on a product that actually is doing fairly well. Of course, this bump might be totally temporary. Plus people who regard their opinion as fact are why they're on block by others in this sxn. Yourself included.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Alright_Mate said:


> Ratings are proving that Moxley is the biggest draw, whenever he is scheduled AEW tend to do a decent rating.
> 
> Their poorest ratings reflect the quality of the shows, when Jericho faced Scorpio Sky for the title and had that mini programme with Jungle Boy, AEW shit the bed.
> 
> AEW produced some terrible moments last night but when certain guys are advertised they tend to keep a good rating.
> 
> I think they'll continue to yo-yo between 900k-700k for the foreseeable.


Agreed. Moxley has the right intersection of popular ex-WWE guy and untapped potential. He should be the babyface who beats Jericho for the belt, IMO.

If they build to a big Jericho vs Moxley match, unless there's some big contractual thing, it would be a big mistake not to do the title switch there.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Nah in all honesty, i know you actually watch the product. So it's not personal, but I dont get the point of shitting on a product that actually is doing fairly well. Of course, this bump might be totally temporary. Plus people who regard their opinion as fact are why they're on block by others in this sxn. Yourself included.


Like I said, Im overly critical because of how badly I want them to succeed. If my criticisms are shown to be unfounded and im completly wrong and by this time next year they're averaging over a million viewers easily, then thats awesome. I got no issue being wrong.

Why am I not in the WWE section doing the same? Why would I be? It doesn't matter. Vince is gonna do what he wants and they're gonna get the 2.4 million viewers they get every week and thats that. I do credit AEW that they do seem willing to change and switch up on the fly after listening to overwhelming fan criticism. Thats a good thing.


----------



## bdon

Moxley taking the title. Omega ending things with Pac. Ramp up Page and Omega. Find some filler for Moxley (perhaps Cody can go full on DICKtator and just give himself the title match) while Omega and Page do their thing for 4 months. 

All the while leave hints about Omega vs Moxley II. It’s perfect story-telling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Like I said, Im overly critical because of how badly I want them to succeed. If my criticisms are shown to be unfounded and im completly wrong and by this time next year they're averaging over a million viewers easily, then thats awesome. I got no issue being wrong.
> 
> Why am I not in the WWE section doing the same? Why would I be? It doesn't matter. Vince is gonna do what he wants and they're gonna get the 2.4 million viewers they get every week and thats that. I do credit AEW that they do seem willing to change and switch up on the fly after listening to overwhelming fan criticism. Thats a good thing.


like i said, criticisms on WF will amount to nothing because it's not like TK reads these forums. He knows they are a cesspool of trolls and dummies.

If you don't enjoy the product, don't watch it. If people feel the same way, they won't watch it. Then AEW will have to do something. but continuing to watch a product you don't like really makes no sense at all. I stopped watching RAW until about a month ago when I heard they started making some proper changes. Because making the voice with my viewership is much better than watching and then overly criticising on WF. But continue as you please.


----------



## CdnDestroyer#8

Lheurch said:


> They definitely have to be happy with that number. Great start for 2020 so far.


Iam so happy for AEW considering they did DYNAMYITE stuff last night and NXT did jack SHIT.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> like i said, criticisms on WF will amount to nothing because it's not like TK reads these forums. He knows they are a cesspool of trolls and dummies.
> 
> If you don't enjoy the product, don't watch it. If people feel the same way, they won't watch it. Then AEW will have to do something. but continuing to watch a product you don't like really makes no sense at all. I stopped watching RAW until about a month ago when I heard they started making some proper changes. Because making the voice with my viewership is much better than watching and then overly criticising on WF. But continue as you please.


I will always watch AEW over NXT because NXT is absolutely irrelevant. AEW isnt. Much like with how I watch RAW or SD, when guys like Cody or Mox or on, im in. When guys like Stunt are on, Im out. Same with WWE
If Owens or Joe are on, Im in. Ricochet or someone like that? Im out.

I dont hate the product as a whole. They have a lot of talent I like and they still do things I like.

One of the things I liked the most was how in the build up to Full Gear they did a lot of shit outside the confines of the arena. I like shit like that. The limo ride with Cody, breaking Dustins arm in the car, that shit was cool. I loved it. Now everything is just in the confines of the arena space. Its very WWE to me. Britt Baker has a dentistry, have someone go there and shoot an angle. Have the inner circle meet the Elite in a bar somewhere and throw down. Shit like that.


----------



## Tilon

One really interesting thing is that Riho is undoubtedly one of their biggest draws, especially with younger girls. Probably because she's one of the only female wrestlers that doesn't go the tomboy route.


----------



## Taroostyles

bdon said:


> Moxley taking the title. Omega ending things with Pac. Ramp up Page and Omega. Find some filler for Moxley (perhaps Cody can go full on DICKtator and just give himself the title match) while Omega and Page do their thing for 4 months.
> 
> All the while leave hints about Omega vs Moxley II. It’s perfect story-telling.


Agreed, Mox/Omega for the title will be the All Out main event and will be the biggest single match they've done yet.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Taroostyles said:


> Agreed, Mox/Omega for the title will be the All Out main event and will be the biggest single match they've done yet.


You think they will keep the Jericho/Mox story running for 7 months?


----------



## bdon

Taroostyles said:


> Agreed, Mox/Omega for the title will be the All Out main event and will be the biggest single match they've done yet.


Yep. That’s the money feud and should be the backbone of the company over the next 2-3 years. Make them career rivals while using them both in times the feud lies dormant for building up your undercard talent. Things get stale, and you have the feud start right back up.

And it all is based within the confines of a sports-oriented theme of wanting to prove who is the more dominant wrestler. No hokey soap opera hatred, just mutual respect, but a rivalry based on the two top guys wanting to be the ONLY top guy.

Sure, you can have the two have their moments where the competitive rivalry boils into more stuff, but it doesn’t have to START with that stuff.


----------



## imthegame19

Yep I do Moxley vs Jericho rematch at Double Or Nothing. Have Moxley win the title. Then have Jericho take a few weeks or month off tv. Moxley can have mini feud with Hager or something. With Guevara and Hager saying Jericho will be back when he's ready.


Then during Moxley/Hager having payoff match. Jericho returns and they all beat down Moxley. With Jericho winning big match to get his rematch vs Moxley at Double Or Nothing. Then have Page turn heel and him vs Omega at Double Or Nothing. Leading to Omega vs Moxley at All Out.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I should not be surprised with the AEW hate on here. I thought the show was solid minus a few bits. I don't think the Nightmare Collective segment was that awful. It was bad but not WOAT level.


----------



## Garty

The Wood, in this thread, post #346 said and I quote, if you wheel... and yes, this is purely out of spite, but also a love-letter. Reap what you sow, my friend.

"I’m sure NXT was a “far superior” show (they sound like your words, not mine) because NXT is very consistent and might be many things, but it isn’t amateur hour. AEW was abysmal, and frankly, borderline unwatchable. I’m simply predicting that when the quarters come in, we’ll see lots of drops" *Congratulations The Wood!!!* 

Oh man, my sides are killing me!!! I can't breath!!! I'm just here to say hi to The Wood. Has he made his excuses yet? If not, then I'm sure he's busy typing it up as I speak, so get ready for a reply bonanza from everyone's favorite AEW hater... The Wood. Here, I'll help him get started and type them here now, that way we can all just ignore him when he does pop his head in and tells us all the reasons why AEW won. Okay, here we go...

*ratings doesn't mean popular, they have consistently gone down from the 1.6 million viewers they had when they debuted, the better show didn't win, Dynamite sucked so bad I may not watch that shit anymore, well AEW being live was up against an "unopposed" NXT best-of show so they had no storyline build to get people interested in making sure they came back this week, just wait until next week, Darby Allin vs PAC will surely increase those ratings huh, did I tell you how shit AEW was last night, did I tell you that NXT was excellent this week, hey isn't anyone paying any attention to me anymore, look I have proof, my proof backs up everything I say and I only tell you all the truth, only losers and fanboys and smarks watch AEW while real wrestling fans watch NXT, why do you have such a hard-on for ratings, I wouldn't be here telling you why NXT lost because ratings don't matter to me*

Well, I think I've covered everything he might say. Please, if I missed anything, feel free to add it to this list.

Oh and one more thing...


----------



## imthegame19

Despite this weeks Dynamite being pretty average overall. It ended really strong and has Bash at Beach setting next week. You got Awesome Kong/Mel vs Statlander/Shida, Pac vs Darby Allin and DDP, Dustin&QT Marshall vs MJF,Butcher&Blade. I'm guessing we get at least one more big match here. I'm guessing we get one more big match. Hopefully they can carry momentum to over 1 million viewers next week.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... they're over 50 mate, they're in bed
> 
> Not all over 50 year olds can be strong stallions like Reg!


Hey, I resemble that demographic as well. Wait a minute... You mean that ironically now, I get it. Must be my old age!


----------



## captainzombie

imthegame19 said:


> Despite this weeks Dynamite being pretty average overall. It ended really strong and has Bash at Beach setting next week. You got Awesome Kong/Mel vs Statlander/Shida, Pac vs Darby Allin and DDP, Dustin&QT Marshall vs MJF,Butcher&Blade. I'm guessing we get at least one more big match here. I'm guessing we get one more big match. Hopefully they can carry momentum to over 1 million viewers next week.


I'm quite surprised they did pop that good of rating this week as the show to me was my least favorite so far. I think with them having a strong opening and banger for an ending it kept people intrigued. I'm hoping that they can build on this come next week. They can really do some really fun stuff with the Bast At The Beach theme next week. Hell, I'll never forget Sullivan vs. Benoit on that summer bash themed Nitro. They killed each other from the backstage all the way to the little pool sections. I guess it all depends on the setup next week, but could have been a good way to use the Bash theme.

Too bad they didn't hype a DDP wrestling return for the last few weeks as a buildup to Bash. That would help with getting to over 1 million viewers considering how over he is.


----------



## Chan Hung

Cant wait for Brody Lee ala Harper to come in to kick ass.


----------



## captainzombie

Chan Hung said:


> Cant wait for Brody Lee ala Harper to come in to kick ass.


I second that.


----------



## Garty

captainzombie said:


> I'm quite surprised they did pop that good of rating this week as the show to me was my least favorite so far. I think with them having a strong opening and banger for an ending it kept people intrigued. I'm hoping that they can build on this come next week. They can really do some really fun stuff with the Bast At The Beach theme next week. Hell, I'll never forget Sullivan vs. Benoit on that summer bash themed Nitro. They killed each other from the backstage all the way to the little pool sections. I guess it all depends on the setup next week, but could have been a good way to use the Bash theme.
> 
> Too bad they didn't hype a DDP wrestling return for the last few weeks as a buildup to Bash. That would help with getting to over 1 million viewers considering how over he is.


While I agree with most of what you said, I've always had this question on my mind...

Why is it a "surprise" that if a show "sucks", it automatically means low ratings? Why is it a "surprise" that if a show is "amazing", it automatically means high ratings? In the end, it really doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever we discussed before and after the fact, when the ratings are released, it doesn't matter if we thought it was a good show, or a bad show. The way I look at it is this, if people watch, they watch and if people don't watch, they don't watch. It's really that simple.

I don't know, maybe it's just me?


----------



## captainzombie

Garty said:


> While I agree with most of what you said, I've always had this question on my mind...
> 
> Why is it a "surprise" that if a show "sucks", it automatically means low ratings? Why is it a "surprise" that if a show is "amazing", it automatically means high ratings? In the end, it really doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever we discussed before and after the fact, when the ratings are released, it doesn't matter if we thought it was a good show, or a bad show. The way I look at it is this, if people watch, they watch and if people don't watch, they don't watch. It's really that simple.
> 
> I don't know, maybe it's just me?


LOL! It's the million dollar question for the day. I guess I wasn't expecting the ratings to be as high as they were considering last night's show IMO wasn't the greatest. Considering that part of the first hour did have a lot of cringe moments, it's enough to drive viewers away and not stick around for hour two, but I was wrong and they did.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy that they did get a good rating last night. Just really hoping they can build on it and do away with some of the silly stuff that is going on right now.

I still think with DDP returning next week for a wrestling match, they missed the boat a little bit as they could have built this up for a few weeks leading to next week Bash At The Beach tag match. DDP is overly popular when he comes out and they could have used his in-ring return for next week to also maybe pull in some former DDP/WCW fans that may want to see him in the ring one more time.


----------



## imthegame19

captainzombie said:


> I'm quite surprised they did pop that good of rating this week as the show to me was my least favorite so far. I think with them having a strong opening and banger for an ending it kept people intrigued. I'm hoping that they can build on this come next week. They can really do some really fun stuff with the Bast At The Beach theme next week. Hell, I'll never forget Sullivan vs. Benoit on that summer bash themed Nitro. They killed each other from the backstage all the way to the little pool sections. I guess it all depends on the setup next week, but could have been a good way to use the Bash theme.
> 
> Too bad they didn't hype a DDP wrestling return for the last few weeks as a buildup to Bash. That would help with getting to over 1 million viewers considering how over he is.



Moxley vs Sammy Guevara now has been added to Bash at the Beach as well.


----------



## bdon

I feel like my opinion of each episode of Dynamite has rang pretty true for the ratings overall, last week excluded.

Really unsure why everyone disliked last night’s episode. I thought it was great, even the Nightmare and Collective and Dark Order stuff was decent. Suspend belief about the ref and just fucking enjoy the shit.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> I feel like my opinion of each episode of Dynamite has rang pretty true for the ratings overall, last week excluded.
> 
> Really unsure why everyone disliked last night’s episode. I thought it was great, even the Nightmare and Collective and Dark Order stuff was decent. Suspend belief about the ref and just fucking enjoy the shit.


I just think people were bored with all the tag matches that had no heat or feuds. Just felt like filler match ups that were too long. While the one match that had any stakes was WWE overbooked nonsense in Riho/Statlander. 

I wouldn't say it was bad. People just weren't excited for any of these matches. IMO the first hour was pretty mediocre. But starting when Dark Order came out the show got better. 


That segment was well done, Dustin/Cody vs Lucha Bros was probably best match of night. MJF promo with DDP was really good. Even 6 man comedy match was fun enough. While end segment was awesome. Yes it's been done before but Moxley, Jericho and Guevara made it memorable.


----------



## Garty

captainzombie said:


> I still think with DDP returning next week for a wrestling match, they missed the boat a little bit as they could have built this up for a few weeks leading to next week Bash At The Beach tag match. DDP is overly popular when he comes out and they could have used his in-ring return for next week to also maybe pull in some former DDP/WCW fans that may want to see him in the ring one more time.


They could have announced it last week, but it would have made no sense to see what happened on this show. Like the cart before the horse analogy. There's one very important thing you forgot about though. DDP is the Master General, when it comes to self-promotion. You can't argue that! I do think he'll bring in more viewers, but it will only be successful if those viewers keep watching every week, when he's not there.


----------



## Jonhern

Garty said:


> While I agree with most of what you said, I've always had this question on my mind...
> 
> Why is it a "surprise" that if a show "sucks", it automatically means low ratings? Why is it a "surprise" that if a show is "amazing", it automatically means high ratings? In the end, it really doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever we discussed before and after the fact, when the ratings are released, it doesn't matter if we thought it was a good show, or a bad show. The way I look at it is this, if people watch, they watch and if people don't watch, they don't watch. It's really that simple.
> 
> I don't know, maybe it's just me?


Ratings are very much a lagging indicator. Word of mouth, good reviews will take time to build an audience and on the other hand bad shows won't automatically mean people stop watching since those people already like the show so they won't drop it just because of a hiccup. But sustained bad shows would, ala wwe, how long has it taken them to lose their audience? People didn't leave overnight, it took years. Much more likely other factors cause the ups and downs, like big events and holidays.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I'm disappointed. They got way many more viewers than they deserved for the quality of show they put out!


----------



## Garty

Jonhern said:


> Ratings are very much a lagging indicator. Word of mouth, good reviews will take time to build an audience and on the other hand bad shows won't automatically mean people stop watching since those people already like the show so they won't drop it just because of a hiccup. But sustained bad shows would, ala wwe, how long has it taken them to lose their audience? People didn't leave overnight, it took years. Much more likely other factors cause the ups and downs, like big events and holidays.


Yes, I agree but as I said, we talk about the show being either good, or bad, after it has aired. The audience will be what it is, again, whether it was a good show, or a bad show. Where you are 100% correct, is word of mouth, but even that will fluctuate week to week, totally dependent on who it is that's watching.


----------



## The Wood

Gh0stFace said:


> I can pretty much sum up what The Wood and Dude want: soap operas. Most younger viewers and AEW fans want an action movie. They want to see something different. This is why WWE is consistently winning in 50+ because they'll never grow out of their tightly set biases.
> 
> I mean Janella put his differences aside to feud with Sabin after getting dumped by Penelope Cruz that's gotta count for something. AEW is trying to please everyone, but people are so hard to please these days. Instead of just enjoying it for what it is, I can't understand, why they whine, complain and nitpick every little thing. Just take it easy bros, it's fake fighting


That’s not what I want at all.



optikk sucks said:


> Dynamite was shit this week huh ?
> 
> AEW starting off the year strong.
> 
> Theyll crack that 1 milli by June I think.


The rating doesn’t reflect the quality. It reflects how many people watched. It doesn’t mean they liked it or will be back.

They had an unopposed week last week. It was expected they would win.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> .........
> 
> fuck......
> 
> i wonder if I should ‘un-ignore’ Woods, Cult03 and a couple others just for this week
> 
> will it be worth it?  ?


For someone who claims they want to ignore people, you sure seem obsessed with us.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Marko and Orange Cassidy super draws ?‍♂


Lol, 950k is not an amazing number.



optikk sucks said:


> I can see the excuses already being talked about in the thread LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> fucking losers


I went through the whole thread up to this point. There was literally nothing. You actually just made that up and got upset about it.


----------



## ClintDagger

Stuff like the Moxley decision usually draws. I’m not surprised at all they drew well. People were waiting around for that segment because, unless I missed it, the announcers never said that was going on last.




CMPunkRock316 said:


> I should not be surprised with the AEW hate on here. I thought the show was solid minus a few bits. I don't think the Nightmare Collective segment was that awful. It was bad but not WOAT level.


I thought the show was solid too. I’m surprised it’s getting ripped so bad.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Question - if NXT did 900k
> 
> but very low in the demo - and then as a result out of top 50
> 
> can we all agree that the Demo matters more?


I understand that ratings give people a reason to believe one show was better than the other, but the show that won the ratings didn't have a better show this week.

People decide what they want to watch beforehand and stick to it. Shit, I didn't even watch either show on any of those networks. It simply doesn't matter to the international audience and only matters to the sponsors and the networks. Claiming it as a win is a joke. Ratings don't actually matter to the fans. You guys who think its a win for AEW are grasping at straws because you don't have anything else to grasp at for a win. Also, I'm a fucking fan of half of AEW's shit.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .........
> 
> fuck......
> 
> i wonder if I should ‘un-ignore’ Woods, Cult03 and a couple others just for this week
> 
> will it be worth it?  ?


Why would you do that when you can just stay in your echo chamber?


----------



## The Dude

captainzombie said:


> Well if the mods would come in to some of these threads around here, they can clean up this place with a lot of the bullshit that is ruining almost every single forum section. I frequent other forums and this kind of back and forth garbage that goes on here with people calling others names and those that continue to troll would be out the door. It’s sad you get people that don’t watch a single episode of RAW, will go in the RAW thread on Monday nights and post bullshit. Now you get the same thing on Wednesday nights, people that even admit they haven’t watched an episode yet post the same garbage.
> 
> The best is the guy that created the thread about Jerichos physique. Now if he had been following AEW and even any kind of wrestling he would have known Jericho has added weight the last 2-3 years.
> 
> It’s one thing to criticize the products, but another to do so with an agenda. AEW is by no means perfect, but some of the posts just go off the deep end.


So let’s ban the people we don’t agree with it. Typical snowflake behavior.

How about you stop crying and being such a manchild and learn to deal with people you don’t agree with? Jesus.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, what you’ve got to keep in mind with a rating is that’s the people who were watching shit as it happened. It’s not a retroactive endorsement. This was also a fairly obvious win for them, and if NXT won, it would be unlikely that AEW would ever beat them again. They were unopposed last week to set-up a stacked show this week. This was their best shot to beat NXT, who were coming off two cold weeks with nothing special advertised.


----------



## The Dude

Garty said:


> I don't believe that all Mods are WWE fans only, but what I do know for a fact, is that they're not doing anything at all to stop, or even just reign-in, the idiotic threads and the people who post them. Disappointment and underwhelmed about AEW is one thing, but these guys take it to the nth degree with the pure hate in each and every post. Hell, just look at The Dude's post "Ciero Miedo". He's complaining about Pentagon's glove. His FUCKING glove! Like I said, if the Mods don't start actually "monitoring" this board, they may as well take it offline.


I’m complaining about Pentagon looking like an imbecile on national TV.

You’re triggered by that because you’re a mark fanboy so you cry like a little girl and demand censorship. Get over it FFS.


----------



## The Dude

The people on here are still hilariously crying and complaining like slighted children because people are making posts that are harshly critical of AEW. Such babies on here, my god.

They drew 950K for a terrible show minus the closing. They were smart to finally learn that keep the closing angle (that had a hook) for the end of the show would draw a rating.

However the rest of the writing of the show was piss poor embarrassing.

AEW is still down a shit ton of viewers from their debut and until they get those viewers back and actually grow their audience.... ya’ll need to pipe down and reel it in a little bit.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Look at your posts in the Dynamite discussion thread dummy. You literally shat all over the Episode and then they pull this rating out.
> 
> Simply put, you don't have any clue what the people want. I don't have a clue what the people want. Nobody here does.
> 
> If you are overly critical of AEW so much, stick to WWE. You and few others make this section unbearable. I know that if AEW's rating was shit, you would've been ITT like "hAh i tOlD YoU So gUyS, nObOdY WaNtS To wAtCh mArKo sTuNt. ThAtS WhY RaNdY OrToN DiDn't sIgN"


AEW fans who can't accept legitimate criticism or have to lie and say the show was incredible with no faults whatsoever are what makes this place unbearable. They're over compensating and it's embarrassing. I want to enjoy the entirety of this show that I pay for not just 30% of it. This show could be better but you sycophants are happy to accept mediocrity and its just weird, because you're only saying so to get a reaction out of people on a forum to prove them wrong. Last nights show sucked for the most part. This show could be better and that's all I want from this show that I pay for


----------



## The Wood

The Dude said:


> The people on here are still hilariously crying and complaining like alighted children because people are making posts that are harshly critical of AEW. Such babies on here, my god.
> 
> They drew 950K for a terrible show minus the closing. They were smart to finally learn that keep the closing angle (that had a hook) for the end of the show would draw a rating.
> 
> However the rest of the writing of the show was piss poor embarrassing.
> 
> AEW is still down a shit ton of viewers from their debut and until they get those viewers back and actually grow their audience.... ya’ll need to pipe down and real it in a little bit.


This, 100%.

This was a really good chance for them to make a great impression coming off an unopposed week and with NXT needing to warm up again. They got 950k people watching, but how many were impressed? 

NXT is running their tag tournament, which has some pretty underwhelming early matches. But when you get to Imperium vs. Matt Riddle/Pete Dunne and The TimeSplitters vs. The Undisputed Era -- which should both be awesome matches -- and hopefully a final of Matt Riddle/Pete Dunne vs. The TimeSplitters, they're going to be going against NXT at a bit more of a pace. You've also got Keith Lee going after Roderick Strong. All these things appeal to the PWG type fans. 

They still haven't debuted Scarlett Bordeaux either, and when she does, that's going to impact ratings too, given how many perverts tune in for hot girls. NXT still has lots up their sleeves. They're just not ramming it all out there the first weeks of 2020.

AEW might get some people back who want to see what Jericho and Moxley do next. I do not like their storyline, but it's probably got that hook for the general fan. Cody vs. MJF ran into a faux pas this week, but MJF being a dick is something too. Apart from that, what do they have? The Nightmare Collective vs. Riho, Kris Statlander, Big Swole & Sonny Kiss? Okay.


----------



## The Dude

Cult03 said:


> AEW fans who can't accept legitimate criticism or have to lie and say the show was incredible with no faults whatsoever are what makes this place unbearable. They're over compensating and it's embarrassing. I want to enjoy the entirety of this show that I pay for not just 30% of it. This show could be better but you sycophants are happy to accept mediocrity and its just weird, because you're only saying so to get a reaction out of people on a forum to prove them wrong. Last nights show sucked for the most part. This show could be better and that's all I want from this show that I pay for


These sycophant sheep are a direct by-product of years of IWC indoctrination by horse’s ass Dave Meltzer and the rest of the dirt sheet slime.

They’ve got their dream show in AEW now which is run by marks just like them and features 90% workrate so they’re gonna obsessed over it like crazy people and lash out, cry and demand censorship over anyone that rightly criticizes the awful elements of that show (and there are a ton).

Doesn’t matter that the company lost a huge chunk of their initial viewers never mind failed to grow the audience one bit. Never mind that the show feels clunky AF and seems like it was put together by a 5th grader.

These people will not only praise anything this company does but their feelings are so fragile that they’ll demand to muzzle ANYBODY who bursts their little bubble and points out how much certain elements of AEW sucks.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

ClintDagger said:


> Stuff like the Moxley decision usually draws. I’m not surprised at all they drew well. People were waiting around for that segment because, unless I missed it, the announcers never said that was going on last.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the show was solid too. I’m surprised it’s getting ripped so bad.


It had a few bad spots that were really ... bad. They kinda stood out in the first hour, until things started picking up a little later, and I think that’s what some people are stuck on. The women’s title match was pretty meh for all the expectations going in, and then the Nightmare Collective segment really stunk the place up. To some people, I guess the whole show is only as good as it’s worst segment?

The thing is, WWE has been doing this for how many years, and most of what they do is terrible. While AEW is just getting rolling, and really they only have one or two bad segments in a show and the rest is usually pretty solid. This is what in my mind makes AEW so much more watchable. To me, anyway. Not everybody sees it that way.


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> It had a few bad spots that were really ... bad. They kinda stood out in the first hour, until things started picking up a little later, and I think that’s what some people are stuck on. The women’s title match was pretty meh for all the expectations going in, and then the Nightmare Collective segment really stunk the place up. To some people, I guess the whole show is only as good as it’s worst segment?
> 
> The thing is, WWE has been doing this for how many years, and most of what they do is terrible. While AEW is just getting rolling, and really they only have one or two bad segments in a show and the rest is usually pretty solid. This is what in my mind makes AEW so much more watchable. To me, anyway. Not everybody sees it that way.


You are being reasonable here, but I just feel the need to point out that just because WWE does something it doesn't excuse AEW from doing it. WWE has got a lot of problems. That's why AEW is around. The more AEW is like WWE the more redundant it becomes.


----------



## Garty

As expected, Wood's replies are almost word-for-word, identical to what I wrote 2 hours ago, but I'm sure he's still not finished yet. Look through his replies. See it for yourselves. His post, #346, is what I used as my "gotcha" tirade, on his complete and total ignorance and disregard of his own words and "facts". He said it, I quoted it. Fact. He has proven himself to be wrong and proven me to be right.

This... this... is the moment you realize you're a fraud. All of your facts, figures, charts, wrestling magazines, Wrestling Observer newsletters and maybe even a note from Mom, has done two things. It has proven that you'll say anything and do anything to refute any criticism of yourself or your "opinions" and "facts", as well as reaffirming my belief that you are a complete narcissist by definition and only a narcissist would disagree with that belief.

Type away, I'm leaving. I'll read your 300 posts in the morning.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This, 100%.
> 
> This was a really good chance for them to make a great impression coming off an unopposed week and with NXT needing to warm up again. They got 950k people watching, but how many were impressed?
> 
> NXT is running their tag tournament, which has some pretty underwhelming early matches. But when you get to Imperium vs. Matt Riddle/Pete Dunne and The TimeSplitters vs. The Undisputed Era -- which should both be awesome matches -- and hopefully a final of Matt Riddle/Pete Dunne vs. The TimeSplitters, they're going to be going against NXT at a bit more of a pace. You've also got Keith Lee going after Roderick Strong. All these things appeal to the PWG type fans.
> 
> They still haven't debuted Scarlett Bordeaux either, and when she does, that's going to impact ratings too, given how many perverts tune in for hot girls. NXT still has lots up their sleeves. They're just not ramming it all out there the first weeks of 2020.
> 
> AEW might get some people back who want to see what Jericho and Moxley do next. I do not like their storyline, but it's probably got that hook for the general fan. Cody vs. MJF ran into a faux pas this week, but MJF being a dick is something too. Apart from that, what do they have? The Nightmare Collective vs. Riho, Kris Statlander, Big Swole & Sonny Kiss? Okay.


AEW maintained good number from last week while nxt not even in top 50 - you must be dying. Wonder how soon before USA ditch program?


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> I understand that ratings give people a reason to believe one show was better than the other, but the show that won the ratings didn't have a better show this week.
> 
> People decide what they want to watch beforehand and stick to it. Shit, I didn't even watch either show on any of those networks. It simply doesn't matter to the international audience and only matters to the sponsors and the networks. Claiming it as a win is a joke. Ratings don't actually matter to the fans. You guys who think its a win for AEW are grasping at straws because you don't have anything else to grasp at for a win. Also, I'm a fucking fan of half of AEW's shit.


Clearly AEW won ratings - if fact they smashed competition like never before.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Clearly AEW won ratings - if fact they smashed competition like never before.


Hey @Garty 

This just goes to show that the sycophants will continue to watch despite the shit they're dishing up. WWE fans were doing the same thing for a decade and copping it on here. I'll say it again because you're "new".

I want AEW to be challenging Raw and Smackdown every week. I want them to be successful, but most of all I want them to entertain me. I don't want them to settle for this crap. This show was not good and still won, doesn't this prove that there are other factors at play here?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

950k viewers is a really good number, but realistically, they did that because last weeks show was phenomenal, and they had a hooking angle to close the show. The body of the show had a plethora of issues, that were really a step backwards. 

I was so bummed watching this weeks show, because last week it seemed like AEW had a formula that worked and they could build off of, but this week it was back to doing goofy, nonsensical things. If there are more weeks like this week, they'll be back down to 750k quick.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> As expected, Wood's replies are almost word-for-word, identical to what I wrote 2 hours ago, but I'm sure he's still not finished yet. Look through his replies. See it for yourselves. His post, #346, is what I used as my "gotcha" tirade, on his complete and total ignorance and disregard of his own words and "facts". He said it, I quoted it. Fact. He has proven himself to be wrong and proven me to be right.
> 
> This... this... is the moment you realize you're a fraud. All of your facts, figures, charts, wrestling magazines, Wrestling Observer newsletters and maybe even a note from Mom, has done two things. It has proven that you'll say anything and do anything to refute any criticism of yourself or your "opinions" and "facts", as well as reaffirming my belief that you are a complete narcissist by definition and only a narcissist would disagree with that belief.
> 
> Type away, I'm leaving. I'll read your 300 posts in the morning.


Lol, you're going on "gotcha tirades" about me? Knock yourself out, but you sound obsessed with me. I don't even know what you're talking about. You've just made a post number. What did I post that wasn't factual? 

I get criticized on here all the time. I don't give a fuck, because I think what I think for reasons and provide those reasons. I don't know where this idea that my primary goal is to refute criticism. Bring it on. I'll just let my reasoning speak for itself. 

You make up a lot about someone's personality based on their posts on an online forum. But again, knock yourself out. I think most people will see it for being the babyish play that it is. 



Pippen94 said:


> AEW maintained good number from last week while nxt not even in top 50 - you must be dying. Wonder how soon before USA ditch program?


I predicted that AEW would win this week. They _should_ have won this week. AEW is coming off an unopposed show that they used to heavily promote this one. NXT is coming off two cold weeks without much oomph. If NXT beat them, then I'd say the "war" would have basically been settled. They were not going to get a more clear shot at them than this week. 

I don't care about the demos as much as others do. Television is changing and evolving, and while the official line might be that its still the key demo, I don't think many people actually watch television in the same way. And 400k in that demo is hardly something to crow about. If you convert 10% of them to a product, that's still only 40k units. I think it's understated how archaic that information is. I'm also willing to bet that the key demo watches largely on the Network anyway. It's just more flexible that way. They can get some AEW in on Wednesday, when it's live, and then get NXT when it drops on Thursday. 

USA Network needs WWE. They drop drastically if they don't have Raw. As such, they're going to cut NXT some slack. They're also paying about 1/4 of what they pay for Raw to air it. This is also a pretty unique week for AEW, coming off zero competition as NXT had a break. The numbers will reverse and NXT has not had to dip into any more of the failsafe measures since Survivor Series. You will see more promotion of it on the main roster before it is moved. And that promotion will work to the extent they need it to. 

AEW is their main roster. They don't have any other avenues to pimp themselves. They don't have a Raw to draw stars from. They don't have an essentially endless roster they can switch in and out. AEW is its own main roster.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Lol, you're going on "gotcha tirades" about me? Knock yourself out, but you sound obsessed with me. I don't even know what you're talking about. You've just made a post number. What did I post that wasn't factual?
> 
> I get criticized on here all the time. I don't give a fuck, because I think what I think for reasons and provide those reasons. I don't know where this idea that my primary goal is to refute criticism. Bring it on. I'll just let my reasoning speak for itself.
> 
> You make up a lot about someone's personality based on their posts on an online forum. But again, knock yourself out. I think most people will see it for being the babyish play that it is.
> 
> 
> 
> I predicted that AEW would win this week. They _should_ have won this week. AEW is coming off an unopposed show that they used to heavily promote this one. NXT is coming off two cold weeks without much oomph. If NXT beat them, then I'd say the "war" would have basically been settled. They were not going to get a more clear shot at them than this week.
> 
> I don't care about the demos as much as others do. Television is changing and evolving, and while the official line might be that its still the key demo, I don't think many people actually watch television in the same way. And 400k in that demo is hardly something to crow about. If you convert 10% of them to a product, that's still only 40k units. I think it's understated how archaic that information is. I'm also willing to bet that the key demo watches largely on the Network anyway. It's just more flexible that way. They can get some AEW in on Wednesday, when it's live, and then get NXT when it drops on Thursday.
> 
> USA Network needs WWE. They drop drastically if they don't have Raw. As such, they're going to cut NXT some slack. They're also paying about 1/4 of what they pay for Raw to air it. This is also a pretty unique week for AEW, coming off zero competition as NXT had a break. The numbers will reverse and NXT has not had to dip into any more of the failsafe measures since Survivor Series. You will see more promotion of it on the main roster before it is moved. And that promotion will work to the extent they need it to.
> 
> AEW is their main roster. They don't have any other avenues to pimp themselves. They don't have a Raw to draw stars from. They don't have an essentially endless roster they can switch in and out. AEW is its own main roster.


Drafting "stars" from raw & smack down is hotshotting. Can boast interest while it lasts, but promotions like that are not sustainable so it's followed by a sharp decline - as we saw this week. It's a tactic to disrupt competition but longterm it's ineffective.


----------



## Taroostyles

The key even more than the victory that they retained basically their entire audience from the week before when NXT wasnt on. 

If they continue to float or around a million viewers that is a great place to be for a company still with only 3 months of producing tv behind them.


----------



## Pippen94

Nxt rankings this week are nothing short of appalling. USA network will be alarmed - whatever they're paying it's not worth it. Don't think numbers will improve either.


----------



## bdon

@The Wood 

Bro, at what point are you just going to say, “There is a clear audience that prefers AEW over NXT. It doesn’t jive with what I’ve historically seen work, nor what I enjoy, but they’re at least doing something that works for someone.”

You just sound salty when every positive is met with you playing Twister to try and prove yourself right or why every bit of evidence thrown your way is actually wrong.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Drafting "stars" from raw & smack down is hotshotting. Can boast interest while it lasts, but promotions like that are not sustainable so it's followed by a sharp decline - as we saw this week. It's a tactic to disrupt competition but longterm it's ineffective.


Lol, that's not really hot-shotting. Bringing in talent is just a part of wrestling. And hot-shotting itself is not even a bad thing. It's bad when you create a high bar for stimulus that you just can't keep doing. 

The WWE have such a big roster, you can cycle through and almost have unlimited possibilities. And by the time you get back again it'll feel fresh. But if they decided they wanted Cain Velasquez to start in NXT to kayfabe "find his feet in the WWE," they could always send Rey Mysterio down to be his tag team partner. That's not hot-shotting.

If they decided they wanted Daniel Bryan to find his spark again, and he goes to NXT to avenge his loss against Adam Cole. Maybe you could stretch that to hot-shotting, but that's a good kind of hot-shotting, because Bryan appeals to both the hardcore and casual fans. It also makes sense and would lead to good content. 

If Buddy Murphy wanted to fuck with Aleister Black, so he challenged his old buddy Ricochet to a Loser Leaves Raw match, you could have Murphy beat Ricochet, clear up some room on Raw and move Ricochet to NXT. Cedric Alexander and Humberto Carrillo aren't to Vince's tastes? Move them to NXT and let them feud with Angel Garza. You can always move them back up if you need to. 

Run an NXT Grand Prix which could be a round robin style G1-like tournament, and William Regal decides he wants to invite some big WWE stars to participate. AJ Styles is in a bracket with Finn Balor and Adam Cole -- battle of the former Bullet Club members. Throw Roderick Strong in there for the Cole vs. Strong "friendly fire" match. On the other side you can throw Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and Shinsuke Nakamura from the main roster in. All former NXT Champions and there's the interesting personal history between them. Throw Cesaro into that bracket. WALTER too. Throw Kushida and Tyler Bate into the Cesaro size. Pete Dunne and Matt Riddle in the Balor/Cole/Styles/Strong side. You've got a whole bunch of main roster talent that appeals to the hardcore fan now in NXT with a sense of purpose and an inherent story. They can disappear afterwards and its no harm, no foul. 

You can literally do that shit each year.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, that's not really hot-shotting. Bringing in talent is just a part of wrestling. And hot-shotting itself is not even a bad thing. It's bad when you create a high bar for stimulus that you just can't keep doing.
> 
> The WWE have such a big roster, you can cycle through and almost have unlimited possibilities. And by the time you get back again it'll feel fresh. But if they decided they wanted Cain Velasquez to start in NXT to kayfabe "find his feet in the WWE," they could always send Rey Mysterio down to be his tag team partner. That's not hot-shotting.
> 
> If they decided they wanted Daniel Bryan to find his spark again, and he goes to NXT to avenge his loss against Adam Cole. Maybe you could stretch that to hot-shotting, but that's a good kind of hot-shotting, because Bryan appeals to both the hardcore and casual fans. It also makes sense and would lead to good content.
> 
> If Buddy Murphy wanted to fuck with Aleister Black, so he challenged his old buddy Ricochet to a Loser Leaves Raw match, you could have Murphy beat Ricochet, clear up some room on Raw and move Ricochet to NXT. Cedric Alexander and Humberto Carrillo aren't to Vince's tastes? Move them to NXT and let them feud with Angel Garza. You can always move them back up if you need to.
> 
> Run an NXT Grand Prix which could be a round robin style G1-like tournament, and William Regal decides he wants to invite some big WWE stars to participate. AJ Styles is in a bracket with Finn Balor and Adam Cole -- battle of the former Bullet Club members. Throw Roderick Strong in there for the Cole vs. Strong "friendly fire" match. On the other side you can throw Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and Shinsuke Nakamura from the main roster in. All former NXT Champions and there's the interesting personal history between them. Throw Cesaro into that bracket. WALTER too. Throw Kushida and Tyler Bate into the Cesaro size. Pete Dunne and Matt Riddle in the Balor/Cole/Styles/Strong side. You've got a whole bunch of main roster talent that appeals to the hardcore fan now in NXT with a sense of purpose and an inherent story. They can disappear afterwards and its no harm, no foul.
> 
> You can literally do that shit each year.


And there you go again.

Showing what the competition can do that would work. AEW is just dead in the water, huh?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> @The Wood
> 
> Bro, at what point are you just going to say, “There is a clear audience that prefers AEW over NXT. It doesn’t jive with what I’ve historically seen work, nor what I enjoy, but they’re at least doing something that works for someone.”
> 
> You just sound salty when every positive is met with you playing Twister to try and prove yourself right or why every bit of evidence thrown your way is actually wrong.


When that becomes the case. NXT was beating them towards the end of last year, and that's even with them dropping on the Network just a day later. It won't take them long to start beating AEW again. 

I feel like I've said this so many times, but AEW was always going to win the first couple of weeks. They're the "other." NXT is new to a lot of people, but it's not "fresh." It's also attached to WWE. The hardcore fan was always going to support AEW out the gate. That's why they didn't debut with their top stars or hammer out the promotion early. Meltzer and Alvarez were miffed by this. I don't understand why. It was pretty clear what was happening. 

Then, when AEW cooled a bit, and because of the whole Saudi plane incident, they decided to pull the trigger on a short angle to use their established TV to put over NXT. And it worked. Then things have quietened down over Christmas and AEW went unopposed and has beat them *two weeks* since NXT got that little boost from the main roster. People like to throw all their victories together, but when AEW was beating NXT was when they were a) expected to, and b) going against a very quiet NXT. 

That has been my story since day one, and it's been proven pretty fucking correct so far. I predicted AEW would win this week. They might even win the next couple, as NXT isn't really loading their shows with stakes. But when NXT decides they want to start hammering it again, AEW is going to go back down. And that time they might not ever be able to get out.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> When that becomes the case. NXT was beating them towards the end of last year, and that's even with them dropping on the Network just a day later. It won't take them long to start beating AEW again.
> 
> I feel like I've said this so many times, but AEW was always going to win the first couple of weeks. They're the "other." NXT is new to a lot of people, but it's not "fresh." It's also attached to WWE. The hardcore fan was always going to support AEW out the gate. That's why they didn't debut with their top stars or hammer out the promotion early. Meltzer and Alvarez were miffed by this. I don't understand why. It was pretty clear what was happening.
> 
> Then, when AEW cooled a bit, and because of the whole Saudi plane incident, they decided to pull the trigger on a short angle to use their established TV to put over NXT. And it worked. Then things have quietened down over Christmas and AEW went unopposed and has beat them *two weeks* since NXT got that little boost from the main roster. People like to throw all their victories together, but when AEW was beating NXT was when they were a) expected to, and b) going against a very quiet NXT.
> 
> That has been my story since day one, and it's been proven pretty fucking correct so far. I predicted AEW would win this week. They might even win the next couple, as NXT isn't really loading their shows with stakes. But when NXT decides they want to start hammering it again, AEW is going to go back down. And that time they might not ever be able to get out.


So, when NXT loses, it is due to them not increasing the stakes. When AEW loses with its “big” angle involving a Scorpio Sky or Jungle Boy with Jericho, then it is just the norm?

How does that make any sense, man?


----------



## Buhalovski

Having decent raitings and having a decent show are two different things. Im surprised by the amount of people who still dont understand it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tsvetoslava said:


> Having decent raitings and having a decent show are two different things. Im surprised by the amount of people who still dont understand it.


because a decent rating is a fact

and a decent show is an opinion

so.... guess you’re right. A lot of people don’t understand that


----------



## MrThortan

I really enjoyed the show. I don't have unrealistic expectations though. Some people view the AE with the rosy colored glasses of the glorious past. This is such a pessimistic era where people get off on bitching and moaning. Nothing is ever good enough. Addicted to misery. While it was far from perfect, I still got two hours of entertainment out of it. Thankful for another night of solid ratings.


----------



## BigCy

Tilon said:


> One really interesting thing is that Riho is undoubtedly one of their *biggest* draws, especially with younger girls. Probably because she's one of the only female wrestlers that doesn't go the tomboy route.


Ummm dude....you realize she's like 80 lbs right.....









Not srs


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> because a decent rating is a fact
> 
> and a decent show is an opinion
> 
> so.... guess you’re right. A lot of people don’t understand that


Smackdown and Raw both get decent ratings and they've been pretty terrible for a long time.. Ratings don't mean you win a debate


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> Smackdown and Raw both get decent ratings and they've been pretty terrible for a long time.. Ratings don't mean you win a debate


It also doesn’t mean it gets cancelled or ‘dies’ or is ‘bad’ - it is 100% subjective (hence people still watching an IMO shitshow like WWE - can’t argue with their results though in the end)

if reality tv taught us anything, it is ratings matter

opinion of the public if its ‘good’ or not = less so.

the lad was pointing out how people didn’t seem to understand the difference - and I agreed

and PS> this is the ‘ratings’ thread - so, good and bad takes a back seat to ‘good ratings’ in any debate worth having here


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW haters in shambles.

Their opinion about the quality of the show, which they heralded as a fact, has actually been proven to be just an opinion.

But continue bitching about “wHo BoOkS tHiS ShIt” and express how “YOu DoNt WaTcH tHe ShOw” or “ToO mAnY mIdgEts” and “ToO mUcH sPoTfESts aNd NoT eNoUgH pRoMoS”


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Lol, that's not really hot-shotting. Bringing in talent is just a part of wrestling. And hot-shotting itself is not even a bad thing. It's bad when you create a high bar for stimulus that you just can't keep doing.
> 
> The WWE have such a big roster, you can cycle through and almost have unlimited possibilities. And by the time you get back again it'll feel fresh. But if they decided they wanted Cain Velasquez to start in NXT to kayfabe "find his feet in the WWE," they could always send Rey Mysterio down to be his tag team partner. That's not hot-shotting.
> 
> If they decided they wanted Daniel Bryan to find his spark again, and he goes to NXT to avenge his loss against Adam Cole. Maybe you could stretch that to hot-shotting, but that's a good kind of hot-shotting, because Bryan appeals to both the hardcore and casual fans. It also makes sense and would lead to good content.
> 
> If Buddy Murphy wanted to fuck with Aleister Black, so he challenged his old buddy Ricochet to a Loser Leaves Raw match, you could have Murphy beat Ricochet, clear up some room on Raw and move Ricochet to NXT. Cedric Alexander and Humberto Carrillo aren't to Vince's tastes? Move them to NXT and let them feud with Angel Garza. You can always move them back up if you need to.
> 
> Run an NXT Grand Prix which could be a round robin style G1-like tournament, and William Regal decides he wants to invite some big WWE stars to participate. AJ Styles is in a bracket with Finn Balor and Adam Cole -- battle of the former Bullet Club members. Throw Roderick Strong in there for the Cole vs. Strong "friendly fire" match. On the other side you can throw Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and Shinsuke Nakamura from the main roster in. All former NXT Champions and there's the interesting personal history between them. Throw Cesaro into that bracket. WALTER too. Throw Kushida and Tyler Bate into the Cesaro size. Pete Dunne and Matt Riddle in the Balor/Cole/Styles/Strong side. You've got a whole bunch of main roster talent that appeals to the hardcore fan now in NXT with a sense of purpose and an inherent story. They can disappear afterwards and its no harm, no foul.
> 
> You can literally do that shit each year.


Nxt is lowly developmental brand, anytime an established wrestler appears on show it's hot shotting.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> AEW haters in shambles.
> 
> Their opinion about the quality of the show, which they heralded as a fact, has actually been proven to be just an opinion.
> 
> But continue bitching about “wHo BoOkS tHiS ShIt” and express how “YOu DoNt WaTcH tHe ShOw” or “ToO mAnY mIdgEts” and “ToO mUcH sPoTfESts aNd NoT eNoUgH pRoMoS”


They predicted end of the company, yet ratings gave comprehensive win for AEW. In fact, nxt ratings very close to canceling area.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> They predicted end of the company, yet ratings gave comprehensive win for AEW. In fact, nxt ratings very close to canceling area.


AEW isnt going out of business and NXT is nowhere close to getting canceled. I just lost fucking IQ points even having to type that. Jesus.


----------



## V-Trigger

Loving every laugh. Also another proof that Omega is a draw for AEW.


----------



## V-Trigger

Here are the quarter hours:

*January 8th, 2020.

AEW Q1 opened with 1.013 million viewers for Private Party vs Kenny Omega & Hangman Page
AEW Q2: Lost 69,000 viewers for ending of Private Party vs Omega & Page.
AEW Q3: GAINED 17,000 viewers for Kris Statlander vs Riho (c) & Brandi Rhodes/Nightmare Collective disaster.
AEW Q4: Lost 48,000 viewers for Sammy Guevara vs Christopher Daniels
AEW Q5: Gained 28,000 viewers for Dustin & Cody Rhodes vs Lucha Bros
AEW Q6: Remained even with Q5 for MJF - DDP promo
AEW Q7: Lost 44,000 viewers for Jurassic Express & Marko vs Best Friends & Cassidy
AEW Q8: Gained 73,000 viewers for Moxley - Jericho segment where Moxley "Joined" Inner Circle

Average: 947,000 viewers vs 721,000 for NXT. *


----------



## Pippen94

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW isnt going out of business and NXT is nowhere close to getting canceled. I just lost fucking IQ points even having to type that. Jesus.


If nxt can't get back inside top 50 it will be canceled


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> They predicted end of the company, yet ratings gave comprehensive win for AEW. In fact, nxt ratings very close to canceling area.


The only people who thought AEW would die were trolls or people matching the AEW sycophants by only speaking in extremes.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

V-Trigger said:


> Here are the quarter hours:
> 
> *January 8th, 2020.
> 
> AEW Q1 opened with 1.013 million viewers for Private Party vs Kenny Omega & Hangman Page
> AEW Q2: Lost 69,000 viewers for ending of Private Party vs Omega & Page.
> AEW Q3: GAINED 17,000 viewers for Kris Statlander vs Riho (c) & Brandi Rhodes/Nightmare Collective disaster.
> AEW Q4: Lost 48,000 viewers for Sammy Guevara vs Christopher Daniels
> AEW Q5: Gained 28,000 viewers for Dustin & Cody Rhodes vs Lucha Bros
> AEW Q6: Remained even with Q5 for MJF - DDP promo
> AEW Q7: Lost 44,000 viewers for Jurassic Express & Marko vs Best Friends & Cassidy
> AEW Q8: Gained 73,000 viewers for Moxley - Jericho segment where Moxley "Joined" Inner Circle
> 
> Average: 947,000 viewers vs 721,000 for NXT. *


started at a million holy fuck. I expected the final segment to increase the average to 947k. Didn’t expect the show to start off so strong. 2020 should be a massive year for AEW.


----------



## fabi1982

Cult03 said:


> The only people who thought AEW would die were trolls or people matching the AEW sycophants by only speaking in extremes.


why you feeding the troll here? he joined yesterday and only writes in here, probably someones second account to "hunt us down even more"


----------



## imthegame19

V-Trigger said:


> Here are the quarter hours:
> 
> *January 8th, 2020.
> 
> AEW Q1 opened with 1.013 million viewers for Private Party vs Kenny Omega & Hangman Page
> AEW Q2: Lost 69,000 viewers for ending of Private Party vs Omega & Page.
> AEW Q3: GAINED 17,000 viewers for Kris Statlander vs Riho (c) & Brandi Rhodes/Nightmare Collective disaster.
> AEW Q4: Lost 48,000 viewers for Sammy Guevara vs Christopher Daniels
> AEW Q5: Gained 28,000 viewers for Dustin & Cody Rhodes vs Lucha Bros
> AEW Q6: Remained even with Q5 for MJF - DDP promo
> AEW Q7: Lost 44,000 viewers for Jurassic Express & Marko vs Best Friends & Cassidy
> AEW Q8: Gained 73,000 viewers for Moxley - Jericho segment where Moxley "Joined" Inner Circle
> 
> Average: 947,000 viewers vs 721,000 for NXT. *


Ratings show AEW weakness. Fans tuned in all excited after good show last week. Then the first match with no stakes went on too damn long. So people changed the channel. While they saw two faces in Daniels/Guevara wrestling that they didnt know or care about so they changed the channel. 


They also changed channel during Best Friends with Orange Cassidy vs Jungle Express match. Since they have no idea who those guys are. It just shows if they would shorten some matches and add some depth to the roster. Well they could be getting over million viewers.


----------



## Not Lying

After reading the past few pages, I can say that I finally see the two faced “AEW fans”. What a bunch arrogant idiots with the patience of 2 year old babies.

Also for the morons shitting on AEW featuring Scorpio sky or Jungle Boy. Do you geeks understand that it’s called building someone up? building a stock up? They feature these guys in the ME and these high pressure situation to give
them more exposure and more experience. You imbeciles think that they should draw long term booked top guys rating. AEW, would expect the ratings to drop a bit with these guys, but this is along term investment strategy, but as I said, it seems there’s a lot of impatient idiots.


----------



## LongPig666

Good numbers that are over-plan for TNT and AEW. I think now on average they have around 0.88-ish viewers, and that is in the US alone. Globally they are also doing well.

They need to keep doing what they are doing well and fix the known issues. Also, after WK14 there should be some great surprises on the horizon coming this year along with Scurll and new signings. I look forward to AEW 2020.


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> why you feeding the troll here? he joined yesterday and only writes in here, probably someones second account to "hunt us down even more"


You mean like The Dude aka The Wood? Even I have to admit, it does seem like a troll account. I always point out the "new" users that have been here for less than a  and 95% of the time, those users end up here, giving us our always needed daily dose, of "AEW sucks". I can't imagine a day without it.


----------



## V-Trigger

imthegame19 said:


> Ratings show AEW weakness. Fans tuned in all excited after good show last week. Then the first match with no stakes went on too damn long. So people changed the channel. While they saw two faces in Daniels/Guevara wrestling that they didnt know or care about so they changed the channel.
> 
> 
> They also changed channel during Best Friends with Orange Cassidy vs Jungle Express match. Since they have no idea who those guys are. It just shows if they would shorten some matches and add some depth to the roster. Well they could be getting over million viewers.


Funny how you focus in one thing and ignore the rest. Way to go.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

optikk sucks said:


> AEW haters in shambles.
> 
> Their opinion about the quality of the show, which they heralded as a fact, has actually been proven to be just an opinion.
> 
> But continue bitching about “wHo BoOkS tHiS ShIt” and express how “YOu DoNt WaTcH tHe ShOw” or “ToO mAnY mIdgEts” and “ToO mUcH sPoTfESts aNd NoT eNoUgH pRoMoS”


It's amazing. I didn't like most of the last show. That doesn't mean AEW as a whole is terrible. In general, it has been quite highly regarded. Yet the same whiners come back week in and week out to cry about the show whether it was good or not.

Then even when it's an objectively good show they'll try and say it had a bad rating or it's dying. The mental gymnastics to shit on the show are insane. Thankfully AEW doesn't care about them.

AEW is not perfect. It has some glaring issues they need to address. This week wasn't very good. However, the criticism we see every week from these same people is so low quality it's ridiculous. There is one dude who admits he doesn't watch and thinks his opinion matters on the subject. It's hilarious.


----------



## imthegame19

V-Trigger said:


> Funny how you focus in one thing and ignore the rest. Way to go.


No the rest is great and it was a great rating. Even Tony Khan celebrated rating on Twitter and thanked the fans. So that tells you the network is very happy with last two weeks. After they had some ups and downs from Thanksgiving through December 18th.


I'm just pointing out drops because I want the ratings to get even better. For example if they end Omega/Page vs Private Party 5-6 minute earlier. Instead send to the back and him and Pac brawl for a few minutes. Then get separated. Well you might not have lost half of 69,000 viewers. Or say you had someone like a Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara match. Or Revival vs Jungle Express or Best Friends. 


So I'm just saying if you add little more heat or excitement to opening. While had some more known names or faces vs AEW unknown faces. I don't think we would see such big drops from segment to segment and they could be getting over million viewers.


----------



## imthegame19

Meltzer:
In the same time slots last year, USA Network averaged 902,000 viewers and TNT averaged 520,000 viewers, so NXT was 20 percent down and AEW was 82 percent up.



But the bad news is AEW had record low attendance of 3,100 this week. Before they haven't done worst then 3,500. Still WWE had had lower attendances for Smackdown.


----------



## Jonhern

Average for 14 weeks, head to head only: AEW .38 (+45%) / 908k (+24%) // NXT .24 / 709k
Average all weeks for each show: AEW .38 (+41%) / 908k (+12%) // NXT .25 / 803k

NXT gets a big boost in viewers if you count the 3 unopposed weeks but doesn't close the gap much in the demo. AEW has not had any truly unopposed weeks, so unknown how much that would actually boost their numbers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Meltzer:
> In the same time slots last year, USA Network averaged 902,000 viewers and TNT averaged 520,000 viewers, so NXT was 20 percent down and AEW was 82 percent up.
> 
> 
> 
> But the bad news is AEW had record low attendance of 3,100 this week. Before they haven't done worst then 3,500. Still WWE had had lower attendances for Smackdown.


You can’t expect massive attendances straight off the bat in every single place around America. It takes time. It’s not bad news at all. AEW are slowly building their presence around America. Patience.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> No the rest is great and it was a great rating. Even Tony Khan celebrated rating on Twitter and thanked the fans. So that tells you the network is very happy with last two weeks. After they had some ups and downs from Thanksgiving through December 18th.
> 
> 
> I'm just pointing out drops because I want the ratings to get even better. For example if they end Omega/Page vs Private Party 5-6 minute earlier. Instead send to the back and him and Pac brawl for a few minutes. Then get separated. Well you might not have lost half of 69,000 viewers. Or say you had someone like a Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara match. Or Revival vs Jungle Express or Best Friends.
> 
> 
> So I'm just saying if you add little more heat or excitement to opening. While had some more known names or faces vs AEW unknown faces. I don't think we would see such big drops from segment to segment and they could be getting over million viewers.


the quarter hours are something that is interesting to look at but not something to base booking on. The segments for one don't all fit nicely into the 15-minute breakdown, and someone has to watch at least 5 minutes to be counted. I said this with the firefly funhouse stuff over on the RAW threads, it's too short of a segment to attribute to quarter hours, someone could watch that, and then change the channel and not be counted at all. Same with all the rest, for instance, those 69k lost might have been for private party match or could have been all due to the commercial break, which always sees a huge drop. That 48k the Sammy match lost could be because people switched off during the NC stuff, but they watched 5 minutes so they were counted in that quarter-hour, but didn't tune back and so are counted as lost in the next segment.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Undertaker23RKO said:


> It's amazing. I didn't like most of the last show. That doesn't mean AEW as a whole is terrible. In general, it has been quite highly regarded. Yet the same whiners come back week in and week out to cry about the show whether it was good or not.
> 
> Then even when it's an objectively good show they'll try and say it had a bad rating or it's dying. The mental gymnastics to shit on the show are insane. Thankfully AEW doesn't care about them.
> 
> AEW is not perfect. It has some glaring issues they need to address. This week wasn't very good. However, the criticism we see every week from these same people is so low quality it's ridiculous. There is one dude who admits he doesn't watch and thinks his opinion matters on the subject. It's hilarious.


I really believe people who don’t watch the show but choose to criticise are WWE plants. I would not be surprised.


----------



## Garty

Cult03 said:


> Hey @Garty
> 
> This just goes to show that the sycophants will continue to watch despite the shit they're dishing up. WWE fans were doing the same thing for a decade and copping it on here. I'll say it again because you're "new".
> 
> I want AEW to be challenging Raw and Smackdown every week. I want them to be successful, but most of all I want them to entertain me. I don't want them to settle for this crap. This show was not good and still won, doesn't this prove that there are other factors at play here?


Yes, this user is a little over the top, so take it with a grain of salt. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really have any opinion of who watches and who doesn't watch. People who are wrestling fans, will watch wrestling. That's not rocket science. What I do have an opinion on (you may have seen a post or two about it), is the pure hate for all things AEW. You can critique a match, a talent, a segment, whatever. That's perfectly acceptable.

Then, you have the users that only do one thing, hijack. Paying close attention to, picking apart every minute of the show, like you're doing an autopsy on a corpse, who in the end, will only find and only talk about the bad things. Which brings up my always asked question again. If you dislike something so much, like food, booze, smoking, certain films, certain music, then why are you still partaking in such things? I like my spicy food a little mild, so I'm not going to start trying Ghost Peppers. I don't like Broadway musicals, so I'm not going to buy tickets to Hamilton. I don't like hip-hop (I'm an OG 1980's rap music fan), so I won't go to a Drake (is he even considered hip-hop because if I hear a Drake song somewhere out there, I can't make any sense of what type of music it is) concert. Finally, if you don't like AEW, if you've only hated AEW, if there's nothing appealing in AEW, if you're still watching AEW and they haven't "fixed" any of your "issues", then why do you continue to watch? I ask that same question and I always get the same answer... "because I want them to be better". Sure, you can have the opinion of "getting better", but when will it be "better" to you. How much time do you need to make a decision? Are you willing to watch for another 6 months, still see no improvements and continue watching in the following weeks? See what I'm getting at?

Like = watch and don't like = don't watch. I find this to be a rather easy concept to grasp, so I cannot understand how those of you that have such hatred for AEW, are still watching.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Garty said:


> Yes, this user is a little over the top, so take it with a grain of salt. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really have any opinion of who watches and who doesn't watch. People who are wrestling fans, will watch wrestling. That's not rocket science. What I do have an opinion on (you may have seen a post or two about it), is the pure hate for all things AEW. You can critique a match, a talent, a segment, whatever. That's perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Then, you have the users that only do one thing, hijack. Paying close attention to, picking apart every minute of the show, like you're doing an autopsy on a corpse, who in the end, will only find and only talk about the bad things. Which brings up my always asked question again. If you dislike something so much, like food, booze, smoking, certain films, certain music, then why are you still partaking in such things? I like my spicy food a little mild, so I'm not going to start trying Ghost Peppers. I don't like Broadway musicals, so I'm not going to buy tickets to Hamilton. I don't like hip-hop (I'm an OG 1980's rap music fan), so I won't go to a Drake (is he even considered hip-hop because if I hear a Drake song somewhere out there, I can't make any sense of what type of music it is) concert. Finally, if you don't like AEW, if you've only hated AEW, if there's nothing appealing in AEW, if you're still watching AEW and they haven't "fixed" any of your "issues", then why do you continue to watch? I ask that same question and I always get the same answer... "because I want them to be better". Sure, you can have the opinion of "getting better", but when will it be "better" to you. How much time do you need to make a decision? Are you willing to watch for another 6 months, still see no improvements and continue watching in the following weeks? See what I'm getting at?
> 
> Like = watch and don't like = don't watch. I find this to be a rather easy concept to grasp, so I cannot understand how those of you that have such hatred for AEW, are still watching.


i liked your post but i'm about to dislike it for the drizzy disrespect 

!


----------



## AEWMoxley

Unsurprisingly, no one gave a fuck about that opening tag match.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> Unsurprisingly, no one gave a fuck about that opening tag match.


AEW Q1 opened with *1.013 million* viewers for Private Party vs Kenny Omega & Hangman Page
AEW Q2: Lost *69,000* viewers for *ending* of Private Party vs Omega & Page.



> > 6% viewers lost at the end of the match
> > nobody


???

on the ignore list you go


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> You can’t expect massive attendances straight off the bat in every single place around America. It takes time. It’s not bad news at all. AEW are slowly building their presence around America. Patience.


I agree just would have been nice to stay above that 3,500 spot. I still think 4,500 to 5 K arena perfect tv for them.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> I agree just would have been nice to stay above that 3,500 spot. I still think 4,500 to 5 K arena perfect tv for them.


You think so, but they've got actual data on AEW viewerships around the country. Doing these arenas where they might not have a large fanbase yet gives them the opportunity to build up presence in that area. They were loud enough for TV viewers to think that they're watching something popular.

I mean how would 400 extra people affect your ability to enjoy the product? I heard a loud enough and invested crowd to be invested myself.


----------



## BigCy

Good rating for AEW. 'Big" "Draw" Marko Stunt gaining all of them viewers (sarcasm) Good start for them. Hopefully they can keep the momentum going and get above 1 mil on a consistent basis for now and then eventually shoot for 1.1, 1.2, etc. I think if they find their format and get a consistent flow going with their show that comes across more organized then they can see more and more gains. Agree with most others that they need to shave a little time off of some matches, not even a lot but the 20 minute matches should be going 15ish and then 15ish should be going 10ish imo. Didn't like the show much but I'm glad several others did.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> I agree just would have been nice to stay above that 3,500 spot. I still think 4,500 to 5 K arena perfect tv for them.


4500 is the average WWE attendance, 3100 really is not bad in a place like MS, which is one of the poorest markets in the country.


----------



## imthegame19

Jonhern said:


> 4500 is the average WWE attendance, 3100 really is not bad in a place like MS, which is one of the poorest markets in the country.


I agree it's not bad number.


----------



## imthegame19

Jonhern said:


> the quarter hours are something that is interesting to look at but not something to base booking on. The segments for one don't all fit nicely into the 15-minute breakdown, and someone has to watch at least 5 minutes to be counted. I said this with the firefly funhouse stuff over on the RAW threads, it's too short of a segment to attribute to quarter hours, someone could watch that, and then change the channel and not be counted at all. Same with all the rest, for instance, those 69k lost might have been for private party match or could have been all due to the commercial break, which always sees a huge drop. That 48k the Sammy match lost could be because people switched off during the NC stuff, but they watched 5 minutes so they were counted in that quarter-hour, but didn't tune back and so are counted as lost in the next segment.


I agree it's not exact science. It just seems common trends with big drops when you got two guys in the ring that are unknowns to a lot of wrestling fans. So I think this can be fixed and corrected if they add more depth to the roster. That way if say people see Sammy Guevara vs Matt Hardy they might keep it on. Then realize how good Guevara is etc.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> I agree it's not bad number.


you called it bad news


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Ratings show AEW weakness. Fans tuned in all excited after good show last week. Then the first match with no stakes went on too damn long. So people changed the channel. While they saw two faces in Daniels/Guevara wrestling that they didnt know or care about so they changed the channel.
> 
> 
> They also changed channel during Best Friends with Orange Cassidy vs Jungle Express match. Since they have no idea who those guys are. It just shows if they would shorten some matches *and add some depth to the roster.* Well they could be getting over million viewers.


Like it's an easy thing....


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> you called it bad news


Bad news as in general that it was lowest attendance yet. But as you mentioned 400 people less then some other shows isn't a big deal. So it's not a bad number. Just bad news that they have a new lower number.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Big news as in general that it was lowest attendance yet. But as you mentioned 400 people less then some other shows isn't a big deal. So it's not a bad number. Just bad news that they have a new lower number.


Mississippi is a shit hole, and I live in WV. Think about that. Hah


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Like it's an easy thing....


It's gonna take time with more guys coming available. Going into Double Or Nothing I think they can have more depth. Then start to push ratings over 1 million as long as they put on quality shows.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Bad news as in general that it was lowest attendance yet. But as you mentioned 400 people less then some other shows isn't a big deal. So it's not a bad number. Just bad news that they have a new lower number.


In the next weeks some shows will probably event not have 2.5K people.
For exemple in Huntsville for the moment there is less than 2k people.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> If nxt can't get back inside top 50 it will be canceled



Lmao. No.


----------



## rbl85

It's funny that since Riho came back every women segment gained viewers….


----------



## shandcraig

rbl85 said:


> It's funny that since Riho came back every women segment gained viewers….


But the 5 people in this website hate her with a passion,So therefor she is not popular and should be fired. These 5 people MATTER right  5 people also hate orange cassidy, So the entire crowd cheering for him clearly should go to hell ?...


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> In the next weeks some shows will probably event not have 2.5K people.
> For exemple in Huntsville for the moment there is less than 2k people.



Hopefully it can do over 3. AEW usually sends wrestlers there Monday and Tuesday to do local media to promote the show. That usually leads to good last minute push for tickets.


----------



## Jonhern

shandcraig said:


> But the 5 people in this website hate her with a passion,So therefor she is not popular and should be fired. These 5 people MATTER right  5 people also hate orange cassidy, So the entire crowd cheering for him clearly should go to hell ?...


OC is really popular with the kids too, every week there seem to be a few kids in the crowd dressed up like him. Who's the last person that happened with? maybe Cena because he dressed like a child already lol. But there is something to that, getting young fans into your product early creates possible lifelong fans.


----------



## bdon

Jonhern said:


> OC is really popular with the kids too, every week there seem to be a few kids in the crowd dressed up like him. Who's the last person that happened with? maybe Cena because he dressed like a child already lol. But there is something to that, getting young fans into your product early creates possible lifelong fans.


My almost 9 year old son loves him. When I told him Best Friends and OC were having a 6-man tag match, I paused to give him time to react. He gets excited and is screaming, “Orange Cassidy never wrestles, though!!!”

Then the inner heel in me breaks his heart and finished my thought with, “...against Jurassic Express!”

His poor little face and excitement sank like a rock. I asked him what was wrong, and he goes, “Oh no. I never wanted this. Orange Cassidy and Luchasaurus are my favorite wrestlersss. Luchasaurus will KILL him!!”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That ‘6-star frog plunge / shooting star meh’ Orange does is hilarious

gets me every time

_goes up, flops_


----------



## shandcraig

Jonhern said:


> OC is really popular with the kids too, every week there seem to be a few kids in the crowd dressed up like him. Who's the last person that happened with? maybe Cena because he dressed like a child already lol. But there is something to that, getting young fans into your product early creates possible lifelong fans.



That guy had the absolute loudest pop this week but these tools still think hes a disgrace lol. The Adults that show up to these events that are already dedicated and paying fans love the guy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

shandcraig said:


> That guy had the absolute loudest pop this week but these tools still think hes a disgrace lol. The Adults that show up to these events that are already dedicated and paying fans love the guy.


I mean these dummies who complain about these stars who are over, will say “I WaNt AEW tO sUcEeD” then complain when AEW succeed with these same stars.

that’s why they’re all goofies. At the end of the day, they are WWE shills. You KNOW if OC was signed to WWE they’ll be marking out at his gimmick.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That ‘6-star frog plunge / shooting star meh’ Orange does is hilarious
> 
> gets me every time
> 
> _goes up, flops_


Even my wife stops, looks at me all seriously, and goes, “Ok. I see it now. I kinda love him. He’s hilarious.”

She half watches with us. Mainly the main storylines and characters like Cody, Mox, Omega, Page, or Jericho. So, she’s had to listen to my son and I laughing hysterically and trying to explain Orange Cassidy standing in the shitter, laying on a ladder under the ring, etc.

She was really into the show Monday and watched from start to finish with us, and the OC “450 splash” clicked for her.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Hopefully it can do over 3. AEW usually sends wrestlers there Monday and Tuesday to do local media to promote the show. *That usually leads to good last minute push for tickets.*


This only happen on StubHub but not for Ticketmaster.


----------



## Chan Hung

I didnt get the chance to read the specifics, but anyone know which segments drew the highest for AEW?


----------



## bdon

Chan Hung said:


> I didnt get the chance to read the specifics, but anyone know which segments drew the highest for AEW?


The opening match with Omega/Page vs Private Party was over a 1 million. It lost some viewers in the second quarter.

Riho and Nightmare Collective shenanigans gained viewers.

Rhodes Bros vs Lucha Bros gained viewers.

And Moxley/Jericho gained the largest amount of viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

V-Trigger said:


> Here are the quarter hours:
> 
> *January 8th, 2020.
> 
> AEW Q1 opened with 1.013 million viewers for Private Party vs Kenny Omega & Hangman Page
> AEW Q2: Lost 69,000 viewers for ending of Private Party vs Omega & Page.
> AEW Q3: GAINED 17,000 viewers for Kris Statlander vs Riho (c) & Brandi Rhodes/Nightmare Collective disaster.
> AEW Q4: Lost 48,000 viewers for Sammy Guevara vs Christopher Daniels
> AEW Q5: Gained 28,000 viewers for Dustin & Cody Rhodes vs Lucha Bros
> AEW Q6: Remained even with Q5 for MJF - DDP promo
> AEW Q7: Lost 44,000 viewers for Jurassic Express & Marko vs Best Friends & Cassidy
> AEW Q8: Gained 73,000 viewers for Moxley - Jericho segment where Moxley "Joined" Inner Circle
> 
> Average: 947,000 viewers vs 721,000 for NXT. *





Chan Hung said:


> I didnt get the chance to read the specifics, but anyone know which segments drew the highest for AEW?


----------



## xio8ups

Why would anyone want to watch. 15-20 minute wrestling matches. With 10-12 kickouts.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> I understand that ratings give people a reason to believe one show was better than the other, but the show that won the ratings didn't have a better show this week.
> 
> People decide what they want to watch beforehand and stick to it. Shit, I didn't even watch either show on any of those networks. It simply doesn't matter to the international audience and only matters to the sponsors and the networks. Claiming it as a win is a joke. Ratings don't actually matter to the fans. You guys who think its a win for AEW are grasping at straws because you don't have anything else to grasp at for a win. Also, I'm a fucking fan of half of AEW's shit.


Lol yes it did. NXT started with a women’s match that went forever, had ANOTHER women’s match later, and Trevor Lee was in the main event. It was fucking horrible. AEW was ten times better this week.


----------



## Taroostyles

Tsvetoslava said:


> Having decent raitings and having a decent show are two different things. Im surprised by the amount of people who still dont understand it.


I think most people understand that concept even if they disagree. It's the ones who do the opposite that need this lesson, I've seen more people in here shitting on everything possible when the ratings were down then I could possibly count. 

Cant have it both ways.


----------



## imthegame19

Here's ratings break down of January 1st show. 

1-01
Cody vs. Darby Allin opened with 1,074,000

Second half of Cody vs. Darby Allin lost 105,000 viewers and 31,000 in 18-49 

*Riho vs. Nyla Rose vs. Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida gained 47,000 viewers including 34,000 in 18-49*

Dark Order promo and beginning of Jon Moxley vs. Trent lost 104,000

*Jon Moxley vs. Trent/Chris Jericho’s offer gained 67,000*

Dustin Rhodes vs. Sammy Guevara lost 13,000

MJF promo lost 39,000 viewers but gained 9,000 in 18-49

Young Bucks & Kenny Omega vs. Pac & Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix lost 34,000 viewers and 11,000 in 18-49 

Finished with 893,000


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Yes, this user is a little over the top, so take it with a grain of salt. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really have any opinion of who watches and who doesn't watch. People who are wrestling fans, will watch wrestling. That's not rocket science. What I do have an opinion on (you may have seen a post or two about it), is the pure hate for all things AEW. You can critique a match, a talent, a segment, whatever. That's perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Then, you have the users that only do one thing, hijack. Paying close attention to, picking apart every minute of the show, like you're doing an autopsy on a corpse, who in the end, will only find and only talk about the bad things. Which brings up my always asked question again. If you dislike something so much, like food, booze, smoking, certain films, certain music, then why are you still partaking in such things? I like my spicy food a little mild, so I'm not going to start trying Ghost Peppers. I don't like Broadway musicals, so I'm not going to buy tickets to Hamilton. I don't like hip-hop (I'm an OG 1980's rap music fan), so I won't go to a Drake (is he even considered hip-hop because if I hear a Drake song somewhere out there, I can't make any sense of what type of music it is) concert. Finally, if you don't like AEW, if you've only hated AEW, if there's nothing appealing in AEW, if you're still watching AEW and they haven't "fixed" any of your "issues", then why do you continue to watch? I ask that same question and I always get the same answer... "because I want them to be better". Sure, you can have the opinion of "getting better", but when will it be "better" to you. How much time do you need to make a decision? Are you willing to watch for another 6 months, still see no improvements and continue watching in the following weeks? See what I'm getting at?
> 
> Like = watch and don't like = don't watch. I find this to be a rather easy concept to grasp, so I cannot understand how those of you that have such hatred for AEW, are still watching.


Some posters have been overly negative and I haven't agreed with the hand signal being too much or Riho being a flop threads and stated that in both of those threads. I believe the negative posters have some points but have gone too far sometimes. I think this was done to wind up a few of the AEW fans who can't accept any criticisms though, not because they actually believe everything they say. I'll be damned if I'm going to be lumped into the constantly negative troll group that most of you have put me in though because a lot of you seem to miss or just not bother replying to the positive stuff.



shandcraig said:


> That guy had the absolute loudest pop this week but these tools still think hes a disgrace lol. The Adults that show up to these events that are already dedicated and paying fans love the guy.


I honestly don't see many people criticizing OC. Certainly not as much as you blokes make it out to be. I've seen far more people have a problem with Chuck Taylor because he looks like a fast food joint manager though.



optikk sucks said:


> I mean these dummies who complain about these stars who are over, will say “I WaNt AEW tO sUcEeD” then complain when AEW succeed with these same stars.
> 
> that’s why they’re all goofies. At the end of the day, they are WWE shills. You KNOW if OC was signed to WWE they’ll be marking out at his gimmick.


Just for fun, can you quote the people who have complained that AEW was successful this week? I'd like proof, because you are just yelling at the sky at this point.


----------



## shandcraig

Cult03 said:


> I honestly don't see many people criticizing OC. Certainly not as much as you blokes make it out to be. I've seen far more people have a problem with Chuck Taylor because he looks like a fast food joint manager though.


 I never said it was alot. Just there is like 5 people in here weekly bitching about him. So it's funny cus everyone else like him


----------



## Cult03

shandcraig said:


> I never said it was alot. Just there is like 5 people in here weekly bitching about him. So it's funny cus everyone else like him


Is it really prevalent enough to whinge about then? I've seen more people complaining about people complaining about OC than actual people complaining about OC to be perfectly honest.


----------



## The Dude

Tsvetoslava said:


> Having decent raitings and having a decent show are two different things. Im surprised by the amount of people who still dont understand it.


And if not ratings, what decides what is good and not good? Opinions on message boards?


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Is it really prevalent enough to whinge about then? I've seen more people complaining about people complaining about OC than actual people complaining about OC to be perfectly honest.


When those 4, 5, maybe 6 people constantly hijack threads? I see no problem with it.


----------



## The Dude

Garty said:


> You mean like The Dude aka The Wood? Even I have to admit, it does seem like a troll account. I always point out the "new" users that have been here for less than a  and 95% of the time, those users end up here, giving us our always needed daily dose, of "AEW sucks". I can't imagine a day without it.


Nice to see I’m living rent free in your head ?.

Keep whining about post counts lol



The Definition of Technician said:


> After reading the past few pages, I can say that I finally see the two faced “AEW fans”. What a bunch arrogant idiots with the patience of 2 year old babies.
> 
> Also for the morons shitting on AEW featuring Scorpio sky or Jungle Boy. Do you geeks understand that it’s called building someone up? building a stock up? They feature these guys in the ME and these high pressure situation to give
> them more exposure and more experience. You imbeciles think that they should draw long term booked top guys rating. AEW, would expect the ratings to drop a bit with these guys, but this is along term investment strategy, but as I said, it seems there’s a lot of impatient idiots.


The irony of an AEW mark calling SOMEONE ELSE a geek.

Never in the history of the world have there existed bigger geeks than hardcore AEW fans.


----------



## Not Lying

The Dude said:


> The irony of an AEW mark calling SOMEONE ELSE a geek.
> 
> Never in the history of the world have there existed bigger geeks than hardcore AEW fans.


Except I'm not a hardcore AEW fan. ?
and wow man, you know so much about ALL THE GEEKS IN THE HISTORY of the world. Enlight us you messiah ?


----------



## The Dude

The Definition of Technician said:


> Except I'm not a hardcore AEW fan. ?
> and wow man, you know so much about ALL THE GEEKS IN THE HISTORY of the world. Enlight us you messiah ?


LOL clearlyyyyyyy you’re not an AEW mark ??. You just proved it....

By almost having an aneurism, crying and complaining and name calling because someone dared criticize AEW.

Way to project your geekiness onto others. Make sure to trim the neck beard too.


----------



## Not Lying

The Dude said:


> LOL clearlyyyyyyy you’re not an AEW mark ??. You just proved it....
> 
> By almost having an aneurism, crying and complaining and name calling because someone dared criticize AEW.
> 
> Way to project your geekiness onto others. Make sure to trim the neck beard too.


? ? Look who's projecting now. Such weak geek.
You can check my post history you baby. I call it as I see, and there's a bunch of arrogant idiots who have no idea what they're talking about or how to run a business. Coming in here talking as if you know what works when all you want is instant gratification and looking to get 100% what you want, when you want it, exactly how you want it. That's the big baby you are you little geek. Now you miserable geek, go cry in your mom's basement as it's better use of your time than coming in here spouting non-sense.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> When those 4, 5, maybe 6 people constantly hijack threads? I see no problem with it.


Maybe if you don't react to the actual trolls, they won't try anymore? You learn that in grade 1


----------



## shandcraig

Cult03 said:


> Is it really prevalent enough to whinge about then? I've seen more people complaining about people complaining about OC than actual people complaining about OC to be perfectly honest.


So now that i point out the irating people bitching about the same shit and we have to hear about it you're pointing me out for pointing them out. How cute. I guess ill re frame from saying anything about them again and making a point that they are loud ass people that dont make any percent of the AEW up. My bad ill let them cary on bitching like rats

When someone makes the same fucking point 100 times once in a while someone needs to tell them WE FUCKING GET IT



Cult03 said:


> Maybe if you don't react to the actual trolls, they won't try anymore? You learn that in grade 1


i dont react to anyone. Im just stating a general fact. Why em i all of the sudden being attacked because i mention one fucking thing about the losers that say the same shit over and over again. Did you learn that in grade 2 ? Maybe you're one of them


----------



## Cult03

shandcraig said:


> i dont react to anyone. Im just stating a general fact. Why em i all of the sudden being attacked because i mention one fucking thing about the losers that say the same shit over and over again. Did you learn that in grade 2 ? Maybe you're one of them


Attacked? Jesus Christ you are a sensitive bunch. I honestly don't think the internet is for you, mate. 

I am simply saying that the actual trolls will stop trolling if you stop giving them attention. Settle the fuck down. Put all your toys back in your cot and take a deep breath. Everything will be ok. 

I see a lot of people come in here, say something outrageous, get 75 responses from AEW sycophants and then they get 75 responses in return. Just imagine what would happen if they don't get any responses? Do you see what I am saying or do I have to break it down even more for you? I wish the front line of the AEW defense wasn't as sensitive as this so us fans could have a legitimate conversation on here.


----------



## shandcraig

Cult03 said:


> Attacked? Jesus Christ you are a sensitive bunch. I honestly don't think the internet is for you, mate.
> 
> I am simply saying that the actual trolls will stop trolling if you stop giving them attention. Settle the fuck down. Put all your toys back in your cot and take a deep breath. Everything will be ok.
> 
> I see a lot of people come in here, say something outrageous, get 75 responses from AEW sycophants and then they get 75 responses in return. Just imagine what would happen if they don't get any responses? Do you see what I am saying or do I have to break it down even more for you? I wish the front line of the AEW defense wasn't as sensitive as this so us fans could have a legitimate conversation on here.


Im trying to tell you i dont give them attention. I simply tasted a genral fact. Not specific to anyone not responding to them. Because that was something that stood out that oc got the loudest pop. Im far from sensitive but when you have childish responses i have to say somethin 
Chill man you could habe excepted the general tjing to point out and not make it a bigger deal. But the fact you're constantly saying aew fans are senstive which is a lie makes me believe yours one of those trolls. This conversation is completly pointless and lets end it here and talk about aew again. Not interested in discussing everyones personal issue in here. 

Lets get back on track.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Attacked? Jesus Christ you are a sensitive bunch. I honestly don't think the internet is for you, mate.
> 
> I am simply saying that the actual trolls will stop trolling if you stop giving them attention. Settle the fuck down. Put all your toys back in your cot and take a deep breath. Everything will be ok.
> 
> I see a lot of people come in here, say something outrageous, get 75 responses from AEW sycophants and then they get 75 responses in return. Just imagine what would happen if they don't get any responses? Do you see what I am saying or do I have to break it down even more for you? I wish the front line of the AEW defense wasn't as sensitive as this so us fans could have a legitimate conversation on here.


Did you happen to try and sift through the Dynamite thread? I did after the show hoping to have an actual discussion given that I found the show very good when I wasn’t expecting much given the card. (Didn’t look like my cup of tea)

What I find when I open a 32 page Dynamite thread is the same 5-6 Tears for Wrestling thinktank. I don’t even mind discussing negatives with @The Wood as I tend to agree with him in principle on a lot of things AEW.

But instead, it’s echo chamber with THIRTY-TWO FUCKING PAGES of crying and wrist-slitting negativity. After about 10 pages of scrolling, I gave up looking for anyone that was looking to have an actual discussion of the show and not a circle jerk in honor of The Fallen Russo by The Tears for Wrestling cohorts.


----------



## kingfrass44

The Definition of Technician said:


> ? ? Look who's projecting now. Such weak geek.
> You can check my post history you baby. I call it as I see, and there's a bunch of arrogant idiots who have no idea what they're talking about or how to run a business. Coming in here talking as if you know what works when all you want is instant gratification and looking to get 100% what you want, when you want it, exactly how you want it. That's the big baby you are you little geek. Now you miserable geek, go cry in your mom's basement as it's better use of your time than coming in here spouting non-sense.


you geek
Do not think others like you 
Jeff Hardy Hardcore fanboy


----------



## Not Lying

kingfrass44 said:


> you geek
> not think others like you
> Jeff Hardy Hardcore fanboy


are you 9?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

kingfrass44 said:


> you geek
> Do not think others like you
> Jeff Hardy Hardcore fanboy


there’s nothing as special as a poster reminding you that you’ve wanted to put them on ignore for some time 

??‍♂


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> That guy had the absolute loudest pop this week but these tools still think hes a disgrace lol. The Adults that show up to these events that are already dedicated and paying fans love the guy.


Just because something works in a building doesn't mean it works for TV audiences. For every fucking moron who laughs at, say, Joey Ryan flinging someone with his dick, there are about 1,000 people who would never be caught at that sort of show. 

The fans that fill AEW buildings are a special sort. They are programmed to love anything and everything AEW does. They are the hardcores. They are not who you want to appeal to. I've used the example of me taking a literal shit in the middle of the ring and calling it "WWE creative." That would get a pop from these people. Is my poo over? 

If millions of people tuned in to watch Orange Cassidy, it would still be shit, but I'd admit that it was working. They're not though. 



optikk sucks said:


> I mean these dummies who complain about these stars who are over, will say “I WaNt AEW tO sUcEeD” then complain when AEW succeed with these same stars.
> 
> that’s why they’re all goofies. At the end of the day, they are WWE shills. You KNOW if OC was signed to WWE they’ll be marking out at his gimmick.


Orange Cassidy is stupid in conception and would be stupid in AEW, WWE or in a fucking vacuum. And just because someone isn't impressed with AEW doesn't mean they love WWE. It's possible for their to be two shit shows on television. 



bdon said:


> Did you happen to try and sift through the Dynamite thread? I did after the show hoping to have an actual discussion given that I found the show very good when I wasn’t expecting much given the card. (Didn’t look like my cup of tea)
> 
> What I find when I open a 32 page Dynamite thread is the same 5-6 Tears for Wrestling thinktank. I don’t even mind discussing negatives with @The Wood as I tend to agree with him in principle on a lot of things AEW.
> 
> But instead, it’s echo chamber with THIRTY-TWO FUCKING PAGES of crying and wrist-slitting negativity. After about 10 pages of scrolling, I gave up looking for anyone that was looking to have an actual discussion of the show and not a circle jerk in honor of The Fallen Russo by The Tears for Wrestling cohorts.


It was a terrible program. When people are commenting on a terrible program, the comments are going to be "negative."


----------



## The Dude

The Definition of Technician said:


> ? ? Look who's projecting now. Such weak geek.
> You can check my post history you baby. I call it as I see, and there's a bunch of arrogant idiots who have no idea what they're talking about or how to run a business. Coming in here talking as if you know what works when all you want is instant gratification and looking to get 100% what you want, when you want it, exactly how you want it. That's the big baby you are you little geek. Now you miserable geek, go cry in your mom's basement as it's better use of your time than coming in here spouting non-sense.


??? the mental state of a deranged AEW fan


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> Just because something works in a building doesn't mean it works for TV audiences. For every fucking moron who laughs at, say, Joey Ryan flinging someone with his dick, there are about 1,000 people who would never be caught at that sort of show.
> 
> The fans that fill AEW buildings are a special sort. They are programmed to love anything and everything AEW does. They are the hardcores. They are not who you want to appeal to. I've used the example of me taking a literal shit in the middle of the ring and calling it "WWE creative." That would get a pop from these people. Is my poo over?
> 
> If millions of people tuned in to watch Orange Cassidy, it would still be shit, but I'd admit that it was working. They're not though.
> 
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy is stupid in conception and would be stupid in AEW, WWE or in a fucking vacuum. And just because someone isn't impressed with AEW doesn't mean they love WWE. It's possible for their to be two shit shows on television.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible program. When people are commenting on a terrible program, the comments are going to be "negative."


Again you most certainly dont make up for the entire aew market. Ive seen mostly positive on the internet about him and clearly positive on tv.There is no evidence that this guy is not over. I get it there is a handful of you that despise him a and that is entirely welcomed of course.Point is you cant act like theres facts hes not when thats simply not true.But again for yourself to not like him is cool and i wont take that away from you. ps this is a friendly discussion as you can tell from my wording.

Im most certainly thinking he shouldn't be winning the world belt but theres a place for him. So many people would tune out if aew was full of only dry roster with just matches and not variety. Fact is the entire market of wrestling fans are all different and everyone needs to stop acting like the personal booker of there own interest. We all have a variety of different taste and especially in here. But the way people talk in here act like their view of who is good and bad is what is the truth for the entire aew market. Lets try to be more understanding of the world that is not only our own self.


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> Again you most certainly dont make up for the entire aew market. Ive seen mostly positive on the internet about him and clearly positive on tv.There is no evidence that this guy is not over. I get it there is a handful of you that despise him a and that is entirely welcomed of course.Point is you cant act like theres facts hes not when thats simply not true.But again for yourself to not like him is cool and i wont take that away from you. ps this is a friendly discussion as you can tell from my wording.


I'd retort that the ratings for AEW reflect that he's not that over. People aren't filling arenas or tuning in to see the guy. Gifs of him being a dick get circulated and people have a laugh, because they remember they used to like this shit. Going viral or being meme'd isn't necessarily a good thing.


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> I'd retort that the ratings for AEW reflect that he's not that over. People aren't filling arenas or tuning in to see the guy. Gifs of him being a dick get circulated and people have a laugh, because they remember they used to like this shit. Going viral or being meme'd isn't necessarily a good thing.


alright


----------



## The Dude

The Definition of Technician said:


> are you 9?


More projection


----------



## BigCy

I went from someone who didn't like OC on at all but after seeing him a few times and the stuff they did with him I actually started to laugh at his schtick and get genuinely entertained. One of my worries was that they were going to have him winning or try to make it like his offense was serious and his weak kicks would "cripple" people or something. If they did that I would want him away from the screen indefinitely as he would turn the business into a joke. They haven't used him as a big player and as long as they keep him on as a comedy jobber I welcome him on my screen. The moment they start giving him a big push (UNLESS he gets a serious gimmick) is when I will not like him again.

I also started to notice that he is actually pretty over in house and online. I'm not saying he is a draw but I guarantee more people like seeing him than not. Just my 2 cents...Marko Stunt can go though and I think most would agree, at best keep him as a mascott ONLY.


----------



## The Wood

Disagree about more people liking OC. Most people who liked wrestling don't now, and it's because of shit that doesn't make sense. I get what you're saying about him not being pushed and no one sells his weak kicks -- but they're counterproductive in conception. 

And if you had a choice between Orange Cassidy and something else, there's always something better you can put in the slot. 

As far as the mascot thing with Marko Stunt goes, as Cornette asks, what is the point? Like, what is the point of having a mascot? And Brian Last couldn't answer it. There's so much redundant shit on this show.


----------



## TheDraw

Orang Cassidy is over. No doubt about that.....

Just another reason why I have one foot out from being a fan of wrestling these days if you can even call it that with geeks like this running around.


----------



## The Wood

The whole "it puts smiles on people's faces" is such a stupid argument. It puts smiles on the faces of the masochists willing to eat faeces and pretend they like the taste.


----------



## Gh0stFace

The Wood said:


> Just because something works in a building doesn't mean it works for TV audiences. For every fucking moron who laughs at, say, Joey Ryan flinging someone with his dick, there are about 1,000 people who would never be caught at that sort of show.
> 
> The fans that fill AEW buildings are a special sort. They are programmed to love anything and everything AEW does. They are the hardcores. They are not who you want to appeal to. I've used the example of me taking a literal shit in the middle of the ring and calling it "WWE creative." That would get a pop from these people. Is my poo over?
> 
> If millions of people tuned in to watch Orange Cassidy, it would still be shit, but I'd admit that it was working. They're not though.
> 
> 
> 
> Orange Cassidy is stupid in conception and would be stupid in AEW, WWE or in a fucking vacuum. And just because someone isn't impressed with AEW doesn't mean they love WWE. It's possible for their to be two shit shows on television.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible program. When people are commenting on a terrible program, the comments are going to be "negative."


You sound a lot like Corney. Hate is a hell of a motivator


----------



## Gh0stFace

The Wood said:


> The whole "it puts smiles on people's faces" is such a stupid argument. It puts smiles on the faces of the masochists willing to eat faeces and pretend they like the taste.


Isn't that whole "put smile on people's faces" WWE's new identity? That's a direct quote from Stephanie McMahon "our mission is to put smile's on people's faces" yeah, ok


----------



## The Wood

I'm flattered. Cornette is a fucking genius. 

That's the defense you hear when wrestlers justify taking the dick spot or putting the tampon in their mouth or whatever. Meltzer constantly uses it to defend AEW's stuff. I'm sure it is a WWE PR line too. But they actually want to be Disney. They don't use it to justify making 40 geeks laugh.


----------



## The Wood

SmackDown just registered 2.5 million viewers. That's almost three times the number AEW posted, folks. Please tell me again how Riho is a draw.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> SmackDown just registered 2.5 million viewers. That's almost three times the number AEW posted, folks. Please tell me again how Riho is a draw.


Listen to this guy. Comparing SD and Dynamite ratings. You must be an AEW mark to compare a startup to an established WWE show.


----------



## RainmakerV2

If you notice, these 20 minute openers always lose viewers in the 2nd quarter. Maybe starting out with a 5 or 6 minute opener wouldn't hurt to try?


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you notice, these 20 minute openers always lose viewers in the 2nd quarter. Maybe starting out with a 5 or 6 minute opener wouldn't hurt to try?


Actually Cody said on twitter that the minute by minute rating prove the opposite.


----------



## Bennu

The Wood said:


> I'm flattered. Cornette is a fucking genius.


Eh, he's great when it comes to getting into wrestling history but the last few times he got involved in creatives, it didn't turn out so well like his run with ROH.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Actually Cody said on twitter that the minute by minute rating prove the opposite.


I mean, I wouldn't expect him to say anything else? But why is he talking about minute by minute ratings on twitter? Got a link?


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean, I wouldn't expect him to say anything else? But why is he talking about minute by minute ratings on twitter? Got a link?


A few days (weeks ?) i remember seeing a tweet of him answering kind of the same question that you wrote about the match being too long.
He said that the minute by minute viewership shows that most of the time long matches actually help keeping viewers.

Also sorry but i don't have a link for the tweet.


----------



## shandcraig

TheDraw said:


> Orang Cassidy is over. No doubt about that.....
> 
> Just another reason why I have one foot out from being a fan of wrestling these days if you can even call it that with geeks like this running around.



Thats fair to say but Impact certainty has plenty of geeks and non of them are over like Cassidy


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Listen to this guy. Comparing SD and Dynamite ratings. You must be an AEW mark to compare a startup to an established WWE show.


This makes no sense. They are both wrestling content on TV. Why wouldn’t you compare them? SmackDown has the benefit of being on FOX. It’s also on Fridays.



rbl85 said:


> Actually Cody said on twitter that the minute by minute rating prove the opposite.


And there’s no reason a member of The Elite would lie...


----------



## Pippen94

A lot of wwe diehards here threatened by AEW. Happy to spend their hard earned money to watch Goldberg & Undertaker risk heart attacks in 2020 & don't want to change.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> A lot of wwe diehards here threatened by AEW. Happy to spend their hard earned money to watch Goldberg & Undertaker risk heart attacks in 2020 & don't want to change.


Threatened by what? WWE is building their A show around guys like Reigns, Corbin, Lacey and Mandy Rose (a stable im sure most people in this thread would find hideous )and pulling good numbers that are improving each week. RAW just killed it with a wedding. What threat?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Threatened by what? WWE is building their A show around guys like Reigns, Corbin, Lacey and Mandy Rose (a stable im sure most people in this thread would find hideous )and pulling good numbers that are improving each week. RAW just killed it with a wedding. What threat?


Corbin :jordanlaff:


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Corbin :jordanlaff:



You can laugh, but the shows been built around him and Reigns since basically its inception on FOX and its held or improved its viewership every week the past month. :shrugs:


----------



## BigCy

The Wood said:


> Disagree about more people liking OC. Most people who liked wrestling don't now, and it's because of shit that doesn't make sense. I get what you're saying about him not being pushed and no one sells his weak kicks -- but they're counterproductive in conception.
> 
> And if you had a choice between Orange Cassidy and something else, there's always something better you can put in the slot.
> 
> As far as the mascot thing with Marko Stunt goes, as Cornette asks, what is the point? Like, what is the point of having a mascot? And Brian Last couldn't answer it. There's so much redundant shit on this show.


How DARE you WWE scum!!!! I'm ignoring you now!!! You're such a troll!!!!

Just playing fam (as I'm sure you knew.) I get it since I used to hate seeing the dude (not @The Dude lol) but he grew on me I suppose, I like Yano in NJPW so I kind of just see it as AEW's Yano. I understand where you're coming from though. 

Yeah I agree on the mascot thing I was just saying that is the most I would want to see of him and that's only if they HAVE to have him on (they don't but maybe they promised his dad or something they would give him a job lol.) He could potentially gain sympathy babyface heat at best but ultimately I think the guy just needs to work ring crew and carry bags or something. I never want to wish someone in the business out of work but guys that don't belong in the ring like him can carry the boys bags and set up the ring, heck I did when I started and was still happy with the fact that I was part of it.

See people this is 2 adults having a difference of opinion and discussing it like rational adults. 



TheDraw said:


> Orang Cassidy is over. No doubt about that.....
> 
> Just another reason why I have one foot out from being a fan of wrestling these days if you can even call it that with geeks like this running around.


I've honestly been thinking about this about myself recently and after seeing what the wrestling crowds look like now. In American Pro Wrestling It's catered to geek culture now and I always see a bunch of neck beards in the audience. It's mostly fat greasy looking incel males. I know they're people too so I'm not trying to get too mean here but the wrestling audience has changed drastically over the years. Can AEW bridge the gap and bring "normies" and "geeks" together to enjoy their product and bring in a small boom? Time will tell but unlikely at this point. AEW may just be relegated to the geek demographic, that's not to say geeks are horrible or anything since I like a lot of geeks, it's just a limited subculture to market to.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> SmackDown just registered 2.5 million viewers. That's almost three times the number AEW posted, folks. Please tell me again how Riho is a draw.


Curious what wrestling show Smackdown is competing against on Friday nights...

AEW would be at half of that without NXT around and that is in 3 moths vs 21 years for Smackdown.

I wish Dynamite would go to Friday’s. Look at how much better Smackdowns attendance is on Fridays vs Tuesday’s and also I would love to see WWE fans sweat a little because AEW is eating into their eating amen pushing it to/slightly below 2 million. 

I truly believe AEW Would continue to get 800k on Friday’s and half of that would come direct from Smackdowns viewers.


----------



## Cult03

Gh0stFace said:


> Isn't that whole "put smile on people's faces" WWE's new identity? That's a direct quote from Stephanie McMahon "our mission is to put smile's on people's faces" yeah, ok


This argument only works if you're arguing with WWE superfans which you're not. We have just as many bad things to say about them than we do about AEW


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> A lot of wwe diehards here threatened by AEW. Happy to spend their hard earned money to watch Goldberg & Undertaker risk heart attacks in 2020 & don't want to change.


You guys bring up WWE way more than the other side, just saying.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> A lot of wwe diehards here threatened by AEW. Happy to spend their hard earned money to watch Goldberg & Undertaker risk heart attacks in 2020 & don't want to change.


Yes, people who don’t like AEW must like this shit. 



Cult03 said:


> This argument only works if you're arguing with WWE superfans which you're not. We have just as many bad things to say about them than we do about AEW


Amen!


----------



## xio8ups

reigns and corbin lols


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Curious what wrestling show Smackdown is competing against on Friday nights...
> 
> AEW would be at half of that without NXT around and that is in 3 moths vs 21 years for Smackdown.
> 
> I wish Dynamite would go to Friday’s. Look at how much better Smackdowns attendance is on Fridays vs Tuesday’s and also I would love to see WWE fans sweat a little because AEW is eating into their eating amen pushing it to/slightly below 2 million.
> 
> I truly believe AEW Would continue to get 800k on Friday’s and half of that would come direct from Smackdowns viewers.


It'll be good for business. WWE would start putting on a proper good show. I don't think AEW would take away SD viewers, but actually gain some from elsewhere.


----------



## Taroostyles

At this point the truth cant be denied, it doesnt mean the product is without its flaws but to have near a million viewers 3 months after launch is an incredible achievement. 

They will never please the 2 ends of the spectrum though. The all talent hardcore puro audience who wants NJPW lite or the WWE stans who scream about more promos and segments. They are a balanced product that is offering a little bit of everything.


----------



## BigCy

Taroostyles said:


> At this point the truth cant be denied, it doesnt mean the product is without its flaws but to have near a million viewers 3 months after launch is an incredible achievement.
> 
> They will never please the 2 ends of the spectrum though. The all talent hardcore puro audience who wants NJPW lite or the WWE stans who scream about more promos and segments. They are a balanced product that is offering a little bit of everything.


I can somewhat agree with this. They are hovering around a mil right now which isn't bad for modern TV but will they have true staying power? That is kind of the million dollar question. Most of the critics just want them to be "sports-like" like they claimed they would be and want them to cater to the true lapsed fan from the AE days and get higher ratings that will LAST. 

I would only call their product balanced in the terms of them trying to find a balance with match time and promos/segments but right now they are all over the place on what they are trying to be, it's too chaotic and there's no real cohesion yet. Once/if they get this figured out and have a direction and consistency in their product and have people on the screen that people want to watch then they will truly grow into something special. The "growing pains" argument is kind of weak imo because if they had true business minds they could have started a lot hotter and retained more of their initial audience. You can tell they don't really know what to do yet for that but at the same time they are hovering around a mil so it's not a bust or anything. Overall I think they are doing OK, not good, not bad. But as I've stated elsewhere 2020 will be the biggest test for them. If they grow above a mil and stay I will consider 2020 a success but if they drop below 600k I will consider it a failure. If it's inbetween I will consider it neither. I'm talking averages here.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

BigCy said:


> I can somewhat agree with this. They are hovering around a mil right now which isn't bad for modern TV but will they have true staying power? That is kind of the million dollar question. Most of the critics just want them to be "sports-like" like they claimed they would be and want them to cater to the true lapsed fan from the AE days and get higher ratings that will LAST.
> 
> I would only call their product balanced in the terms of them trying to find a balance with match time and promos/segments but right now they are all over the place on what they are trying to be, it's too chaotic and there's no real cohesion yet. Once/if they get this figured out and have a direction and consistency in their product and have people on the screen that people want to watch then they will truly grow into something special. The "growing pains" argument is kind of weak imo because if they had true business minds they could have started a lot hotter and retained more of their initial audience. You can tell they don't really know what to do yet for that but at the same time they are hovering around a mil so it's not a bust or anything. Overall I think they are doing OK, not good, not bad. But as I've stated elsewhere 2020 will be the biggest test for them. If they grow above a mil and stay I will consider 2020 a success but if they drop below 600k I will consider it a failure. If it's inbetween I will consider it neither. I'm talking averages here.


Thats fair. I agree, a year from now they should be in that 1.0 (low) to 1.2 (high) range on a weekly basis. I can't see them dropping lower but I can see them not growing their rating which would be a step back in my eyes.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

BigCy said:


> Overall I think they are doing OK, not good, not bad.


3 months in, hovering around a milli. doing just ok? not only that, but in wrestling's trough era?


----------



## Jagaver

BigCy said:


> I can somewhat agree with this. They are hovering around a mil right now which isn't bad for modern TV but will they have true staying power? That is kind of the million dollar question. Most of the critics just want them to be "sports-like" like they claimed they would be and want them to cater to the true lapsed fan from the AE days and get higher ratings that will LAST.
> 
> I would only call their product balanced in the terms of them trying to find a balance with match time and promos/segments but right now they are all over the place on what they are trying to be, it's too chaotic and there's no real cohesion yet. Once/if they get this figured out and have a direction and consistency in their product and have people on the screen that people want to watch then they will truly grow into something special.


Yeah I'd agree with this. I'm a big AEW fan, desperately want them to succeed, but at the moment the show isn't what I thought it'd be, it's a bit confused. On the one hand there are the win loss records and rankings and occasional 'sports-like' presentation I thought I was getting, but there's also a lot of hokey stuff. 

It really bothered me that they turned a Womens Title match into a bit of a joke this week, in their attempts to push the nightmare collective, which is terrible (in my opinion). 

Definitely prepared to hang on and see where they develop things, and I accept it might not end up being what I was looking for (though they have pushed NXT to be better, which is good), but I don't think they'll succeed by trying to be all things to all people. I don't think you can promote a sometimes serious but sometimes very hokey comedy product and not end up diluting both.


----------



## rbl85

I don't see what wasn't serious about the nightmare collective (and i'm not a big fan of it).

Personally i prefer when heels attack a face before or during a match, it does not make sense for me if the heels wait for the end of the match to attack the face.

What happened this week was the most logical thing that they could have done, it made sense.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> I don't see what wasn't serious about the nightmare collective (and i'm not a big fan of it).
> 
> Personally i prefer when heels attack a face before or during a match, it does not make sense for me if the heels wait for the end of the match to attack the face.
> 
> What happened this week was the most logical thing that they could have done, it made sense.


They protected both wrestlers, Riho and Kris. They gave the women’s division a clear line in the sand with Shida, Riho, and Statlander on one side with major hints of a Britt Baker story developing against Riho. They even gave Sonny Kiss some air time for what could lead to an angle with Dr Luther, instead of Kiss just being there to cover a certain demographic.

I thought they took some major steps Wednesday.


----------



## Jagaver

They could've not made it a title match. Or at the very least presented it as a proper title match which everybody cared about up until Nightmare Collective got involved. Instead they had Brandi on commentary bickering with Excalibur and ignoring the match. They also did a ridiculous nonsensical ref distraction for about a minute and a half to let Statlander get beaten up by the collective. None of it made any sense.

The collective themselves are a sort of voodoo group with a guy dressed as Uncle Fester who screeches a bit and sticks his tongue out. They've been going for ages and we don't really know what they want or why they're trying to recruit people, we also don't know why Brandi started it. Perhaps my serious vs hokey bar is just set in a different place to you, which is fair enough, but they're on the wrong side of silly for me. 

It doesn't help that Brandi is a pretty terrible actress and completely unconvincing, and Kong doesn't come across particularly threatening, she's big but that's about it.

As I said, I like the people behind AEW and will stick with it, but this felt bad to me.


----------



## BigCy

optikk sucks said:


> 3 months in, hovering around a milli. doing just ok? not only that, but in wrestling's trough era?


I can see what you're trying to say but I'm taking all factors in consideration. I'm looking at the show as a whole (rollercoaster, some good, some bad), the roster (some good ones and some stinkers), the starting audience compared to now (1.4 to 800k avg.) I'm also looking at the opinions of various fans and it seems a lot of things are hit or miss for most people. There are a few that love everything and a few that hate everything but the vast majority have positive and negative things to say.

Now they are starting to trend upwards in 2020 so that's a positive direction. They are also more open to feedback (not by much though) than WWE is. My concern though is, will it last? I honestly think it's too early to call it a success or a failure. At the end of 2020 there will be more metrics to measure and more exposure and hopefully they will have "settled in" and established themselves an identity they can foster and build with beyond that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

BigCy said:


> I can see what you're trying to say but I'm taking all factors in consideration. I'm looking at the show as a whole (rollercoaster, some good, some bad), the roster (some good ones and some stinkers), the starting audience compared to now (1.4 to 800k avg.) I'm also looking at the opinions of various fans and it seems a lot of things are hit or miss for most people. There are a few that love everything and a few that hate everything but the vast majority have positive and negative things to say.
> 
> Now they are starting to trend upwards in 2020 so that's a positive direction. They are also more open to feedback (not by much though) than WWE is. My concern though is, will it last? I honestly think it's too early to call it a success or a failure. At the end of 2020 there will be more metrics to measure and more exposure and hopefully they will have "settled in" and established themselves an identity they can foster and build with beyond that.


The starting audience is 800k. The killer initial rating is their potential audience after a year or two.
And honestly, what opinions you’re reading is from the minority. Same way with WWE. wF and Twitter paint a bad picture of both shows, but they’re both doing relatively well. But yes otherwise I agree.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> I don't see what wasn't serious about the nightmare collective (and i'm not a big fan of it).
> 
> Personally i prefer when heels attack a face before or during a match, it does not make sense for me if the heels wait for the end of the match to attack the face.
> 
> What happened this week was the most logical thing that they could have done, it made sense.


Like I said, i dont really have a problem with the Collective or the Dark Order like a lot of people do. I have a problem with who's in them. Both groups are how old and who is in either of them? Melanie Carter and a 60 year old death match wrestler? What? Who's in the Dark Order?.......

.....

Why would I take either group seriously as a threat? Now you could say, well ya gotta wait, some big reveals are coming. Okay, I guess. But if people have already tuned out and soured on the groups, whats a reveal gonna do?


----------



## BigCy

RainmakerV2 said:


> Like I said, i dont really have a problem with the Collective or the Dark Order like a lot of people do. I have a problem with who's in them. Both groups are how old and who is in either of them? Melanie Carter and a 60 year old death match wrestler? What? Who's in the Dark Order?.......
> 
> .....
> 
> Why would I take either group seriously as a threat? Now you could say, well ya gotta wait, some big reveals are coming. Okay, I guess. But if people have already tuned out and soured on the groups, whats a reveal gonna do?


It's more about the delivery I think. It seems like everything they do is an "experiment" and just random for the sake of it. It's almost like they're doing stuff for the "lols" instead of trying to do something more coherent with them. It seems sometimes like the promotion is one big rib for the boys and girls. 

Dark Order is more like an S & M gimmick in it's current incarnation. I know it got a little better but not by much. If they would have brought them in as macabre and the promos and vignettes were truly "dark" like a "Saw" movie I guarantee it would be a lot more interesting, Evil Uno could potentially be threatening and more over if they built him up as this savage beast that goes berserk and out of control, or a methodical butchering character.

TLDR: It's all about the delivery.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> 3 months in, hovering around a milli. doing just ok? not only that, but in wrestling's trough era?


AEW deserves some blame for the “trough” era. It’s wrestling’s fault that wrestling has not been looked after. But even then, there are 2.5 million people with cable in their homes that are half-way interested in watching wrestling. They actively turn on Monday Night Raw each week. There is no reason AEW should not have taken a large chunk of those fans.

950k is not a bad number for a television program, but it’s a very unimpressive number for wrestling. Millions of people still watch shit wrestling every week.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Another good rating? Awesome. AEW still doing well.


----------



## kingfrass44

Jonhern said:


> the quarter hours are something that is interesting to look at but not something to base booking on. The segments for one don't all fit nicely into the 15-minute breakdown, and someone has to watch at least 5 minutes to be counted. I said this with the firefly funhouse stuff over on the RAW threads, it's too short of a segment to attribute to quarter hours, someone could watch that, and then change the channel and not be counted at all. Same with all the rest, for instance, those 69k lost might have been for private party match or could have been all due to the commercial break, which always sees a huge drop. That 48k the Sammy match lost could be because people switched off during the NC stuff, but they watched 5 minutes so they were counted in that quarter-hour, but didn't tune back and so are counted as lost in the next segment.


Your information is wrong and And trying to bring excuses Sammy


----------



## umagamanc

The Wood said:


> AEW deserves some blame for the “trough” era. It’s wrestling’s fault that wrestling has not been looked after. But even then, there are 2.5 million people with cable in their homes that are half-way interested in watching wrestling. They actively turn on Monday Night Raw each week. There is no reason AEW should not have taken a large chunk of those fans.
> 
> 950k is not a bad number for a television program, but it’s a very unimpressive number for wrestling. Millions of people still watch shit wrestling every week.


Arguably, this would be a more long-term goal. To attract the WWE fanbase would involve breaking down two things:

1) Brand loyalty - people watch WWE because they like the company and/or product, and watch it habitually or when they can (I know that's hard to fathom).
2) The automatic association between wrestling and WWE - I surmise that to a lot of casuals, wrestling is WWE, and their awareness of other companies is little to none.

Are AEW doing that currently? Probably not, but even though it's been four months, it's still early stages. There have been some hits and there are glimmers of hope, yet there are certainly improvements that need to be made. Presently, I think they're in the process of stabilising their core audience, then they'll move onto the next phase of attracting casual viewers, if they prove to be successful.


----------



## The Wood

umagamanc said:


> Arguably, this would be a more long-term goal. To attract the WWE fanbase would involve breaking down two things:
> 
> 1) Brand loyalty - people watch WWE because they like the company and/or product, and watch it habitually or when they can (I know that's hard to fathom).
> 2) The automatic association between wrestling and WWE - I surmise that to a lot of casuals, wrestling is WWE, and their awareness of other companies is little to none.
> 
> Are AEW doing that currently? Probably not, but even though it's been four months, it's still early stages. There have been some hits and there are glimmers of hope, yet there are certainly improvements that need to be made. Presently, I think they're in the process of stabilising their core audience, then they'll move onto the next phase of attracting casual viewers, if they prove to be successful.


That’s a really intelligent post. I can see why you’d think that, and I do think that Omega and The Bucks being there is largely to that goal. That being said, I think they are trying to please too many masters if that’s what their aim is, and that the two goals might be incompatible.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That’s a really intelligent post. I can see why you’d think that, and I do think that Omega and The Bucks being there is largely to that goal. That being said, I think they are trying to please too many masters if that’s what their aim is, and that the two goals might be incompatible.


I’ve said as much, but maybe I didn’t put it so eloquently. The average US audience is conditioned to only know WWE, and that was by Vince’s design: the company is bigger than the name. They’ve killed any potential star power, because they didn’t want another Cena.


----------



## xio8ups

WORD LIFE THUGONOMICS


----------



## The Wood

I hear more people talk about "WWF" than WWE.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> I hear more people talk about "WWF" than WWE.


I hear more people in this section talking about WWE than AEW


----------



## AEWMoxley

Based on the extension Dynamite just received, it looks like the reports about them getting big DVR numbers was true.

Just imagine - TNT was initially predicting 500K viewers when they signed the first deal. Then Jon Moxley falls right into their lap, and all of a sudden they are pulling in an average of 1.2 million total live +7 day viewers.

And to think that Vince has put all of this time and effort into trying to hurt AEW, when all he had to do was to push his best talent and biggest star as the top guy and give him creative freedom. AEW would have been dead on arrival.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> Based on the extension Dynamite just received, it looks like the reports about them getting big DVR numbers was true.
> 
> Just imagine - TNT was initially predicting 500K viewers when they signed the first deal. Then Jon Moxley falls right into their lap, and all of a sudden they are pulling in an average of 1.2 million total live +7 day viewers.
> 
> And to think that Vince has put all of this time and effort into trying to hurt AEW, when all he had to do was to push his best talent and biggest star as the top guy and give him creative freedom. AEW would have been dead on arrival.


That’s the way it works. Imagine if Hogan would have stayed with the AWA, there wouldn’t be wrestling today as we know it.


----------



## Jonhern

Heres a link to the tweet about the extension, since I am sure the trolls will start asking for proof. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217484118327513104


----------



## Jonhern

AEWMoxley said:


> Based on the extension Dynamite just received, it looks like the reports about them getting big DVR numbers was true.
> 
> Just imagine - TNT was initially predicting 500K viewers when they signed the first deal. Then Jon Moxley falls right into their lap, and all of a sudden they are pulling in an average of 1.2 million total live +7 day viewers.
> 
> And to think that Vince has put all of this time and effort into trying to hurt AEW, when all he had to do was to push his best talent and biggest star as the top guy and give him creative freedom. AEW would have been dead on arrival.


It's more than 1.2 million, the press release states 32million from all platforms, not just cable, that's an average of almost 2.3 million per episode.

Also, it says there will be a 2nd night of AEW programming which is going straight to series. Wonder what that will end up being. Maybe airing Dark on TNT? 









AEW to Expand to Two Nights a Week With New Multi-Year TNT Deal


All Elite Wrestling (AEW) is expanding its footprint on TNT. The upstart pro wrestling promotion has signed a new multi-year deal with TNT that will keep it on the air through 2023. In addition, AE…




variety.com


----------



## Jonhern

> In a deal that will make the company profitable in 2020 and beyond, TNT, Warner Media, and AEW have renegotiated and signed a new four-year contract that would keep Dynamite on the station through the end of 2023.
> 
> The four-year deal is worth $175 million, just under $45 million per year, and includes TNT having an option for 2024 at a significantly increased price.





> AEW President Tony Khan noted that starting AEW was the biggest financial gamble he had ever taken and that the deal has resulted in it paying off far sooner than originally projected.







__





AEW Dynamite extended through 2023, WarnerMedia adding second show


AEW Dynamite will be on TNT through 2023 with another show coming to WarnerMedia soon.




www.f4wonline.com


----------



## The Wood

This reminds me of the Saudi Arabia statement WWE put out, which already confirmed what what they were basically already doing. Wasn’t the deal already for 2-3 years? And how much are they getting TV fees wise? That’s always been the game. Are TNT getting more content for the same price?

So much in that press release is huff-and-puff. They don’t reach 32 million viewers. They reach 600k-800k of the same viewers each week live, and an irrelevant few on DVR. This is worded to sell the product.

Not sure if expanding the amount of content they are putting out is a great idea either. That’s a big issue with WWE.

If AEW are getting more money out of this, it is good for them. But this looks like a pub stunt crossed with a minor extension. TNT gets more content for cheap and Tony Khan gets to label his brand a success without actually getting the big money in.

This also makes AEW more vulnerable in many ways. With the same audience stretched between two shows, they might find their audience fatiguing. They have also set a standard. Sounds like TNT is counting on this thing being a top 20 show and being able to convert those DVR viewers to live viewers. They might regret that.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, their deal was originally for about that much. They were getting production costs covered. In 2016 it was costing about $880k for an episode of Raw. 51 episodes of that a year is...$45 million.

This is the WWE Saudi statement about their commitment to do...exactly what we said we were going to do. Their probation period has been extended, which is good news for them. This is smoke and mirrors though. Tony Khan wants something he can put out to get faith in the product, and in exchange, TNT basically gets first-dibs if it ends up catching on.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## IronMan8

This would explain why Tony has spoken about AEW winning over his father recently. 

You know, if Tony is finally earning his billionaire father's respect on an independent business venture and this forms part of his motivation, this could be an overlooked factor of strength for AEW.

It would be like Shane McMahon doing something successful in another industry and Vince watching him grow that vision successfully.


----------



## The Wood

Whoanma said:


>


God damn, he can't even pull good facial expressions when he's fucking around.


----------



## Jonhern

Wednesday Ratings: AEW .38 Demo 940k Viewers (5th) / NXT .21 Demo 700k Viewers (31st)

EDIT: AEW up 5.5% in the demo even with the slight dip in viewers over last week.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dynamite consistently getting close to 1 million viewers now. They should be up over a million as we get closer to the PPV.


----------



## Aedubya

Is that an increase on last week?


----------



## IamMark

Aedubya said:


> Is that an increase on last week?


0.02 increase in key demo.
7k less total viewers.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Aedubya said:


> Is that an increase on last week?


Loss of 7k viewers. Which is great considering that Brandi shit last week.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Just a matter of time now until they break through that 1 million barrier. NXT are gonna have to do something big to get ahead again.


----------



## The Wood

I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier. Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


----------



## fulcizombie

The Wood said:


> I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier. Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


Sure thing....?


----------



## Taroostyles

Viewership is holding strong and the show is building great stories right now. 

Great stuff all around.


----------



## AEWMoxley

A PG Attitude said:


> Just a matter of time now until they break through that 1 million barrier. NXT are gonna have to do something big to get ahead again.


I wouldn't be surprised if it happens next week. They had another strong main event segment with the Inner Circle stabbing Moxley in the eye, and the show went off the air with Moxley, all bloodied up, breaking out of an ambulance and confronting Pac ahead of their #1 contender match. I think they've got a great shot at breaking 1 million, or at least inch a lot closer.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I wonder if the taped nature of next weeks show hurts them, it traditionally doesn't but you are pulling from a more hardcore audience that is aware of these things.

Next week's show is pretty stacked based on what's been announced, so I think they will do a good rating.


----------



## A PG Attitude

The Wood said:


> I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier. Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


Just give it up man. You need a new hobby


----------



## rbl85

Really good number



The Inbred Goatman said:


> I wonder if the taped nature of next weeks show hurts them, it traditionally doesn't but you are pulling from a more hardcore audience that is aware of these things.
> 
> Next week's show is pretty stacked based on what's been announced, so I think they will do a good rating.


Well it's going to be tape just the day before and it's going to be harder to find spoilers since it's on a boat.

Also just the fact that it's on a boat should actually help the rating.


----------



## qntntgood

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Loss of 7k viewers. Which is great considering that Brandi shit last week.


What was the highest rated part's of the show.


----------



## imthegame19

Another good rating. I'm slightly disappointed it didn't get over million viewers. But with new t.v. deal I care much less about week to week tv ratings. Still though again good week for AEW especially with demo increase.


----------



## imthegame19

qntntgood said:


> What was the highest rated part's of the show.


We won't know until later tonight or tomorrow morning. When Observer comes out.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> What was the highest rated part's of the show.


Too soon to know, wait until tomorrow.


----------



## rbl85

Every demo went up except the 50+ demo.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Every time Jon Moxley is advertised they post a number in the 900k's.

He is clearly the biggest draw in the company and the reason they are staying consistent.


----------



## ClintDagger

Solid number. The show really has its rhythm right now and the numbers prove it.


----------



## Aedubya

IamMark said:


> 0.02 increase in key demo.
> 7k less total viewers.


Pity as this was a far superior show this week


----------



## ClintDagger

1/15/20 episode of Dynamite (out of 15 shows):
*7th best nightly demo number since premiere.
*8th best nightly overall number since premiere.
*T 3rd best nightly demo ranking since premiere.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> Every time Jon Moxley is advertised they post a number in the 900k's.
> 
> He is clearly the biggest draw in the company and the reason they are staying consistent.


They had bad numbers when Mox was advertised.

If people were only watching AEW for him then they would only watch his segment and then change the channel.


----------



## The Wood

Aedubya said:


> Pity as this was a far superior show this week


It was definitely a better show, but quality doesn’t always mean ratings. The week before influences them, as do other circumstances. People don’t tune in to a segment because it is good, per se. It’s often chance people will be watching a really good segment or a really bad one.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> *I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier.* Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


You're straight up kidding yourself if you really believe this. The show was just came out of it's proof of concept stage, the lowest point in terms of roster, production, executive experience, and brand confidence, just a few days ago. From this point on their potential to put on a better show with a better, more experienced roster over the next 4 years shot up astronomically. The fact they're hovering around 1M, suggests they'd be able to crack that with ease.


----------



## RapShepard

They're starting the New Year's strong as hell. HHH needs to go to the drawing board and figure out how to turn things back around. They have fell off since Ripley's win


----------



## V-Trigger

Loving every laugh. BTW Thanks Corbin.


----------



## Jazminator

I'm not one to care about ratings or dwell on them, but am curious about something: Why do the numbers fluctuate from segment to segment? 

When I watch "Dynamite," I always watch from start to finish.


----------



## RiverFenix

NXT needs to get out of Full Sail. But they're there though end of March now. It will get to the point that Vince might just stop caring about "Wednesday Night Wars" rather than keep trying to prop up NXT to win. It just looks like shit when you tune in to watch and see a crowd of 500 people vs what AEW can make itself look like in an arena.


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier. Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


“The Rock has come back...TO NXT!”


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> They're starting the New Year's strong as hell. HHH needs to go to the drawing board and figure out how to turn things back around. They have fell off since Ripley's win


What happens after hot shooting - wwe probably hoped for knockout punch in early rounds


----------



## rbl85

Jazminator said:


> I'm not one to care about ratings or dwell on them, but am curious about something: Why do the numbers fluctuate from segment to segment?
> 
> When I watch "Dynamite," I always watch from start to finish.


Usually the segments who lose the most viewers are the one with a lot of commercials.


----------



## Pippen94

Seafort said:


> “The Rock has come back...TO NXT!”


Dad joke


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> They're starting the New Year's strong as hell. HHH needs to go to the drawing board and figure out how to turn things back around. They have fell off since Ripley's win


I can tell you what NXT's issue is. It feels small. 

As long as it's an environment where the best talent have no advancement apart from the lower quality main shows, they're going to still feel insular. Which is what they are.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Darby Allin main events, good numbers

i’m unignoring everybody for 24hrs and enjoying the shitshow


----------



## rbl85

The problem for NXT is that to do big ratings they have to do takeovers shows during regular épisodes.


----------



## V-Trigger

AEW 50+ .34 - NXT 50+ .35 

Getting close on the old demo.


----------



## Jazminator

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> NXT needs to get out of Full Sail. But they're there though end of March now. It will get to the point that Vince might just stop caring about "Wednesday Night Wars" rather than keep trying to prop up NXT to win. It just looks like shit when you tune in to watch and see a crowd of 500 people vs what AEW can make itself look like in an arena.


I disagree. The crowd is smaller, true, but they're always red hot. NXT is a great product with some of the world's best wrestlers (TUE, Gargano, Ciampa, Velveteen, Keith Lee, Shayna, etc.).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> It was definitely a better show, but quality doesn’t always mean ratings. The week before influences them, as do other circumstances. People don’t tune in to a segment because it is good, per se. It’s often chance people will be watching a really good segment or a really bad one.


They tune in because of the finely honed character work and the expertly told story through pulsating ring action 

case in point, Darby Allin - not given a chance by all and sundry .... yet, here we are. Main event, cheered by the crowd, good ratings

sublime


----------



## Alright_Mate

rbl85 said:


> They had bad numbers when Mox was advertised.
> 
> If people were only watching AEW for him then they would only watch his segment and then change the channel.


Was he advertised for episodes 5 & 9 because I can't bloody remember.

He appeared on both but only in segments that lasted about a minute.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Good. They're basing the show around the stars and making sure they're on TV every week.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> They had bad numbers when Mox was advertised.
> 
> If people were only watching AEW for him then they would only watch his segment and then change the channel.


Well Moxley wasn't in 12/18 show and had very small role on 11/27 show with 50 second backstage promo and stare down to Jericho at the end.


----------



## Purple Haze

Another great rating. 
I would like to see the ratings for the DDP match and the main event, it was the first time they had two smaller names in the main event and i guess it had a decent rating.


----------



## Jedah

Told you the numbers would come up after the Holidays. Still, it's nice to see, especially considering how badly last week's show went.


----------



## qntntgood

imthegame19 said:


> We won't know until later tonight or tomorrow morning. When Observer comes out.


Again meltzer is full of shit,but I have hunch the match length at the beginning of show might have hurt it just bit.but still this show was to good,to draw a low rating.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Again meltzer is full of shit,but I have hunch the match length at the beginning of show might have hurt it just bit.but still this show was to good,to draw a low rating.


Well Meltzer is the only one who have the numbers so….


----------



## imthegame19

Alright_Mate said:


> Every time Jon Moxley is advertised they post a number in the 900k's.
> 
> He is clearly the biggest draw in the company and the reason they are staying consistent.



These are ratings of the show when Moxley has wrestled on.


10/9- 1.1 (Shawn Spears)
10/16-1.014 (teamed with Pac vs Omega/Page)
10/23-963(Pac)
11/13-957 (Michael Nakawaza)
11/20-893(Darby Allin)
12/4-851 (Joey Janela)
12/11-778 (Alex Reynolds)
1/1-967 (Trent)
1/15-940 (Sammy Guevara)

So we can probably throw out the Michael Nakawaza and Alex Reynolds matches. Since those are unadvertised squash matches. But every other Moxley promoted match show done 851 plus.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85, any info on the attendance last night? Hoping they cracked 5k.


----------



## Boldgerg

The Wood said:


> I really don’t think they are going to break that 1 million barrier. Certainly not regularly. It’s not surprise they won this week. There’s just more going on. NXT needs to get things pumping and the AEW rating will come down and NXT will start to win.


Fuck me, you are insufferable. So bored of seeing your shit on every AEW thread.


----------



## Pippen94

Boldgerg said:


> Fuck me, you are insufferable. So bored of seeing your shit on every AEW thread.


Yep - doesn't add anything but just doom & gloom. Now aew has new TV deal this guy should be banned - can't take 3 more years of this


----------



## Dark Emperor

The ratings from the last 3 weeks have been consistent and in a very good range. Things are definitely looking better than at end of year.


----------



## French Connection

Jazminator said:


> I disagree. The crowd is smaller, true, but they're always red hot. NXT is a great product with some of the world's best wrestlers (TUE, Gargano, Ciampa, Velveteen, Keith Lee, Shayna, etc.).


The problem of NXT, is to be the B brand of the WWE. 
They were only over AEW, when they invaded Raw and SD.

In a medium/long term, NXT can't win this war, except if the WWE wants to consider them as a proper brand.
And I don't think it will happen one day.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Yep - doesn't add anything but just doom & gloom. Now aew has new TV deal this guy should be banned - can't take 3 more years of this





The Wood said:


> AEW gets the better of NXT when NXT starts to panic and the show breaks down into actual hot-shotting instead of what the online fans call "hot-shotting." When the gap widens to a level where AEW is clearly winning and consistently. No, being about equal in estimates does not count because of how ratings work. Last week was a pretty clear win for AEW. If that becomes the norm, I'll call it the norm. It's not though -- NXT either beat or matched up with AEW for _weeks_ before they took their break. The online fans don't like that reality because it smashes the narrative that AEW have won by 12k viewers or whatever. That's not how ratings work and everybody knows it.
> 
> And I've given a timeframe. I've said that I expect NXT to be beating them fairly consistently by WrestleMania. People will mock the Triple H line, but it really is a marathon and not a sprint. It can't be while the fans are still sympathetic to AEW. But that is wearing out more and more -- especially with three out of four EVPs actually like giant asses that can't handle criticism and can't handle the divisions they're supposed to book. If AEW is still clearly winning then, I'll call that what it is and say that NXT _should_ be beating them right now, but aren't.
> 
> *AEW wins when it gets giant TV rights fees, by the way. That's when it becomes profitable and what the Khans wanted it to be. If they get a giant TV offer when that TNT deal expires, they'll be laughing.* If AEW doesn't, the writing will largely be on the wall for AEW and its lucrative future. The Khans can keep it open as a vanity project, but it will look doubtful that it will become a true viable alternative to WWE.


Step 1 done, @The Wood .

Now is where you say that this isn’t a huge TV rights deal, but it is likely just a hair under double what NXT is doing. So, you’ll argue they have to get half of Raw or Smackdown with this 20-25+ year built-in loyal fanbase.

And you wonder why I have to act as go between for you and the diehards calling you hating troll.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Boldgerg said:


> Fuck me, you are insufferable. So bored of seeing your shit on every AEW thread.


Just put him on ignore.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Seriously guys, YOU are turning this into a Wood vs whoever thread. Just put the guy on ignore, let us talk about the product instead. Jesus.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Seriously guys, YOU are turning this into a Wood vs whoever thread. Just put the guy on ignore, let us talk about the product instead. Jesus.


Well, considering I enjoy talking to @The Wood , why would I ignore him? He and I have good convos, even if we disagree somewhat.


----------



## Jonhern

Aedubya said:


> Pity as this was a far superior show this week


It's a better rating regardless. That 7k fewer is literally one less person who is in a Nielson household watching.


----------



## Jonhern

Jazminator said:


> I'm not one to care about ratings or dwell on them, but am curious about something: Why do the numbers fluctuate from segment to segment?
> 
> When I watch "Dynamite," I always watch from start to finish.


 it goes up and down because a lot people change channels during commercial breaks or segments they don't like, but mostly it's commercial breaks. So it fluctuates from minute to minute. The quarter hours are average over 15 minutes, so it's really not fair to attribute drops and stuff to certain segments, could have dropped strictly because of a long commercial break in that segment.


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> Seriously guys, YOU are turning this into a Wood vs whoever thread. Just put the guy on ignore, let us talk about the product instead. Jesus.


I dunno why people are still responding that guy or paying any attention to his post. Either put him in ignore like I did or just ignore him. 

He's admitted hater and been rooting for the company to fail. Which he doesn't realize clouds his opinions to negative side and makes whatever he says very bias. It was very obvious he has agenda and wasn't worth anyones time. Then everything that happens yesterday. 


Basically debunked all the crap he was trying to sell us how AEW wasn't doing well enough or where going to be losing money. Or how Shad Khan or Turner might pull the plug. AEW fans dont have to worry about that for years now. Company here to stay, so we can focus on actual product. So whatever spins he's trying to pull is worthless. AEW fans won and haters/trolls lost. At least for the next four years. End of story.


----------



## DOTL

I think the TNT deal and these stabilizing ratings will probably push AEW and NJPW into making a deal.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

940k look at that shit, 5th overall.

I hope I’m still here in 2030 to see where they are then.


----------



## LongPig666

I would like to thank Baron Corbin for contributing on this weeks increase from last week.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You're straight up kidding yourself if you really believe this. The show was just came out of it's proof of concept stage, the lowest point in terms of roster, production, executive experience, and brand confidence, just a few days ago. From this point on their potential to put on a better show with a better, more experienced roster over the next 4 years shot up astronomically. The fact they're hovering around 1M, suggests they'd be able to crack that with ease.


We’ll see.



Seafort said:


> “The Rock has come back...TO NXT!”


That will happen before Vince loses a ratings war.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

that was an interesting 24hrs where i`ve taken everybody off ignore 

thanks for playing guys.... back you go


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> I dunno why people are still responding that guy or paying any attention to his post. Either put him in ignore like I did or just ignore him.
> 
> He's admitted hater and been rooting for the company to fail. Which he doesn't realize clouds his opinions to negative side and makes whatever he says very bias. It was very obvious he has agenda and wasn't worth anyones time. Then everything that happens yesterday.
> 
> 
> Basically debunked all the crap he was trying to sell us how AEW wasn't doing well enough or where going to be losing money. Or how Shad Khan or Turner might pull the plug. AEW fans dont have to worry about that for years now. Company here to stay, so we can focus on actual product. So whatever spins he's trying to pull is worthless. AEW fans won and haters/trolls lost. At least for the next four years. End of story.


This is absolute bullshit. First of all, I’m not a self-admitted hater. Wtf? If I was, why would I deny it now? You’re a liar. Stop talking in buzzwords. Yes, anyone who criticizes AEW has a fucking agenda. He’s a tinfoil hat to go with your tinfoil feelings.

It didn’t debunk shit. I said they weren’t likely to get giant TV rights fees when their deal is up in a few years. They got small rights fees for a few more years and extra free content. If this thing starts losing money (and WCW lost money really fast) and loses the support of TV partners, then it’s all still possible.

“End of story.” No. How do we know TNT can’t cancel AEW for poor performance? How do you know there won’t be a network restructure in two years, and someone looks at AEW and thinks “Nah, this will be better”?

They’ve signed a security blanket deal to increase their immediate revenue in exchange for big network expenses later. It’s a fine deal. AEW obviously thought it was good, so they obviously felt like they needed it a little. Hmm.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that was an interesting 24hrs where i`ve taken everybody off ignore
> 
> thanks for playing guys.... back you go


How important do you guys think you are? Why does this need a bloody announcement?


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> How important do you guys think you are? Why does this need a bloody announcement?


It’s spam that’s designed to upset people, and yet they call us “trolls.” It’s pretty rich.


----------



## bdon

Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?

Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.


Because THEY MUST BE HEARD!!!!


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Great rating! I was about 20 mins behind being live the whole time unfortunately. I also have Sling and opted in to being counted in the Neisen Rating. So I might have messed it up lol.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

LongPig666 said:


> I would like to thank Baron Corbin for contributing on this weeks increase from last week.


But they were down from last week.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.


I can only speak for myself. It absolutely doesn’t. I get my thoughts out regardless. The people “ignoring” seem more obsessed than the people who aren’t.

Nah, my issue is just the irony. Don’t call people trolls and then make posts just about how much you don’t like them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bloody Warpath said:


> But they were down from last week.


Key demo was up


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.



Because that dude is like 40 years old and making announcements about ignoring other men online who don't like the wrestling company he does.


Shits weird.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.





bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.



Considering both guys respond to people with long posts. I'm sure it bugs them that so many people aren't seeing what they write lol.


Facts are when so many people are putting you on ignore. Then you are still arguing with the people who havent. Well that should be a sign that you are the problem. Yet these guys either don't care or too dumb to realize how they are acting.


As for why people want to let people know they are on ignore. Well it takes away the trolls/haters power. These clowns can write whatever they want about things I say. Guess what I can't see it and have no idea they are doing it. Neither can all the many others who put these people on ignore. So in reality they are wasting their time writing these long replies. When only a small majority of the forum can actually see it lol.


Personally im careful who I put on ignore. They have to have to be obvious troll or pure hater with agenda. Once they prove that to me those opinions are worthless and I have no time for them. That's why I only have about handful of people on ignore.


----------



## The Wood

And it might be down next week


imthegame19 said:


> Considering both guys respond to people with long posts. I'm sure it bugs them that so many people aren't seeing what they write lol.
> 
> 
> Facts are when so many people are putting you on ignore. Then you are still arguing with the people who havent. Well that should be a sign that you are the problem. Yet these guys either don't care or too dumb to realize how they are acting.
> 
> 
> As for why people want to let people know they are on ignore. Well it takes away the trolls/haters power. These clowns can write whatever they want about things I say. Guess what I can't see it and have no idea they are doing it. Neither can all the many others who put these people on ignore. So in reality they are wasting their time writing these long replies. When only a small majority of the forum can actually see it lol.
> 
> 
> Personally im careful who I put on ignore. They have to have to be obvious troll or pure hater with agenda. Once they prove that to me those opinions are worthless and I have no time for them. That's why I only have about handful of people on ignore.


No one is forced to read what I say anyway, lol. That makes no sense. People can just not come to a board, read a thread or read everything in a thread. Most people aren’t interested in wrestling. Most people who are interested in wrestling aren’t here. I post here because I like it. I write long posts because I enjoy writing. Cult03 doesn’t even seem to write long posts, lol. Is the mind of the AEW so warped by the bubble that they think this is reality?

That “so many” people have us on ignore says more about the refusal of AEW fans to accept criticism, honestly. And even perhaps that they know it’s the truth but are in denial.

Lol, “power?” What the fuck do you think this is? It’s a wrestling board. AEW fans are not in some mind-controlling relationship with anyone who criticises it. And if they are, they need to get new minds.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I can only speak for myself. It absolutely doesn’t. I get my thoughts out regardless. The people “ignoring” seem more obsessed than the people who aren’t.
> 
> Nah, my issue is just the irony. Don’t call people trolls and then make posts just about how much you don’t like them.


Good deal.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Bloody Warpath said:


> But they were down from last week.


The fact that it was only 7k is really goddamn impressive.


----------



## Jonhern

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Great rating! I was about 20 mins behind being live the whole time unfortunately. I also have Sling and opted in to being counted in the Neisen Rating. So I might have messed it up lol.


The sling data is not used for national ratings, but the networks do get that data. Its only really used for local ratings in smaller metro areas that are not metered.


----------



## The Wood

Being down 7k doesn’t mean anything. The way ratings are extrapolated it is basically the same rating.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Being down 7k doesn’t mean anything. The way ratings are extrapolated it is basically the same rating.


It really doesn't mean anything when you consider that demo is all that really matters.


----------



## Gh0stFace

> AEW beat NBA on ESPN head-to-head for the first time, as it went against the first 97 minutes of both programs. NBA pulled in 934,000 viewers and had a 0.34 in the adults 18-49 demo. The late game did better, with 1,128,000 viewers and a 0.44 rating. AEW won its timeslot in Males 18-49 for its first 97 minutes, but NBA beat them in 12-34 and the second game won in the last 23 minutes. AEW ranked #5 for the night while NXT was
> 
> AEW was fifth in 18-49 while NXT was No. 31. AEW won women 18-34 (70,000 to 39,000), women 35-49 (98,000 to 62,000), men 18-34 (101,000 to 56,000), men 35-49 (226,000 to 112,000) and teenagers. NXT won in 50+ as usual. AEW was down 0.7% in viewers but up 5.6% in 18-49. NXT was down 2.9% in viewers but up 10.5% in 18-49. As often pointed out, the demo is usually the more important number to networks and advertisers, so this is good news for both shows.
> 
> AEW had 0.20 in 12-17 (up 17.6), 0.24 in 18-34 (up 9.1%), 0.52 in 35-49 (up 4%) and 0.34 in 50+ (down 5.6%). Its audience was 66.2% males in 18-49 and 52% males in 12-17.
> 
> NXT had 0.08 in 12-17 (under half of AEW), 0.14 in 18-34, 0.28 in 35-49 and 0.35 in 50+ (only slightly ahead of AEW). Its audience was 61.9% male in 18-49 and 57.3% male in 12-17.


LOL @ Triple H not acknowledging AEW and stating that the real competition is NBA & ESPN before the war and then collabing with Vince to design a show specifically designed to beat AEW in ratings, and even then they lost the key demos. That's a lot of effort for not considering AEW a threat.

'The average age of an NXT fan = dead'
=MJF


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Does it really bother you, @Cult03 and @The Wood ?
> 
> Who gives a shit if some people ignore you? I found it funny they wanted to make an announcement about it.


It's just weird that this is the direction you'd like to go with the statement I made. I don't care if they ignore me, or Wood. My problem is the attention they seek by announcing it. I literally asked why they think they're important enough for it to even matter, because I don't care and nobody else does either.


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> Considering both guys respond to people with long posts. I'm sure it bugs them that so many people aren't seeing what they write lol.
> 
> 
> Facts are when so many people are putting you on ignore. Then you are still arguing with the people who havent. Well that should be a sign that you are the problem. Yet these guys either don't care or too dumb to realize how they are acting.
> 
> 
> As for why people want to let people know they are on ignore. Well it takes away the trolls/haters power. These clowns can write whatever they want about things I say. Guess what I can't see it and have no idea they are doing it. Neither can all the many others who put these people on ignore. So in reality they are wasting their time writing these long replies. When only a small majority of the forum can actually see it lol.
> 
> 
> Personally im careful who I put on ignore. They have to have to be obvious troll or pure hater with agenda. Once they prove that to me those opinions are worthless and I have no time for them. That's why I only have about handful of people on ignore.


I never reply with long posts. I've never trolled either. What I do is argue against AEW sycophants who are are asking for a form of fascism. Firstly, as much as I agree with a lot of what Wood says, I'm not even half as negative as him and The Dude, even though for the most part they raise good and logical points. But the fact that I do have criticisms and you dickheads put me on the same level is why the AEW section has a control problem. Anyone who criticizes is called a troll and it's a fucking joke. 

This is further proof that the average AEW super fan on WF only see what they want to see. They're either delusional or flat out liars.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> It really doesn't mean anything when you consider that demo is all that really matters.


The demo doesn't matter either. It's not possible to accurately work out who is watching what on whose television.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> The demo doesn't matter either. It's not possible to accurately work out who is watching what on whose television.


Tell that to TV or advertisers.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Cult03 said:


> The demo doesn't matter either. It's not possible to accurately work out who is watching what on whose television.


Demo matters a lot. That's why AEW finished #5 and NXT didn't even break top 10 bc a lot of their viewers are 50+ who advertisers don't give a fuck about


----------



## Cult03

Gh0stFace said:


> Demo matters a lot. That's why AEW finished #5 and NXT didn't even break top 10 bc a lot of their viewers are 50+ who advertisers don't give a fuck about


It's a scale the advertisers use but the fans shouldn't care about it. Last weeks AEW VS NXT proved its worthless as the worst show was watched by more. It's also impossible to gauge who is watching on what, and with torrents and streams its an outdated barometer for us to debate about. It doesn't show which show is better


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> It really doesn't mean anything when you consider that demo is all that really matters.


Lol, that’s not why it matters at all. It doesn’t matter because of how ratings are tabulated. 



Gh0stFace said:


> LOL @ Triple H not acknowledging AEW and stating that the real competition is NBA & ESPN before the war and then collabing with Vince to design a show specifically designed to beat AEW in ratings, and even then they lost the key demos. That's a lot of effort for not considering AEW a threat.
> 
> 'The average age of an NXT fan = dead'
> =MJF


The fans are about the same, they just watch through different means. Do you really think two modern wrestling products appeal to two completely different audiences? Come on now.

Also, the ratings between AEW and the NBA are virtually a wash. I bet you the NBA does better with advertisers, has a more diverse audience and is also followed through other media platforms. 



Pippen94 said:


> Tell that to TV or advertisers.


A lot of advertisers and networks themselves have strongly considered moving away from Nielsen ratings, CBS amongst them. It’s a Meltzer trap to put so much stake in Nielsen


----------



## Gh0stFace

So suddenly since AEW is winning it's "fuck the ratings they don't matter... and how sure can we be that those figures are true anyway?". LOL this "us vs. them" mob mentality amongst fans is something else. I bet you would fully stand by the ratings rather than question their credibility if NXT was crushing AEW. 

But I admit I fall into that line-of-thinking sometimes. I hate WWE. They may have made wrestling popular, but they also killed wrestling for me. I don't watch NXT because it's associated with WWE and anything WWE related makes me annoyed -- that's how much they pissed me off over the years. 

In defense of WWE loyalists here, I understand what it's like when you invest so much of your time in a product; it almost becomes a part of you. So when there's any threat to success, it's seen as a threat against us. It becomes personal, so I understand how some of these dudes can rant on for pages.


----------



## The Wood

Gh0stFace said:


> So suddenly since AEW is winning it's "fuck the ratings they don't matter... and how sure can we be that those figures are true anyway?". LOL this "us vs. them" mob mentality amongst fans is something else. I bet you would fully stand by the ratings rather than question their credibility if NXT was crushing AEW.
> 
> But I admit I fall into that line-of-thinking sometimes. I hate WWE. They may have made wrestling popular, but they also killed wrestling for me. I don't watch NXT because it's associated with WWE and anything WWE related makes me annoyed -- that's how much they pissed me off over the years.
> 
> In defense of WWE loyalists here, I understand what it's like when you invest so much of your time in a product; it almost becomes a part of you. So when there's any threat to success, it's seen as a threat against us. It becomes personal, so I understand how some of these dudes can rant on for pages.


When did I ever say the ratings don't matter? The ratings absolutely matter. They're just not understood properly by a lot of people, and they are applied wrong. Ratings are estimates based on a number of boxes that are placed in people's homes and from that data is extrapolated. Nielsen themselves say give or take 10%. When people say "AEW BEAT NBA!!!" they're talking about an estimated 3k people or whatever, which is just not something declarative even Nielsen would stand behind. I'm also willing to bet that TNT is not the only way to watch the NBA. I don't know this, because I don't follow US sports, but would I be right in saying that? How can people watch AEW? Yeah, you're dealing with a sample of NBA fans versus the entire contingency of AEW fans, and it's too close to call a win either way. That shit gets annoying to anyone who wants to be honest about things -- even if they are an ardent AEW supporter. 

And that's why it's kinda bullshit when people call AEW getting an estimated 3k more viewers than NXT a win too. You are basically watching two horses cross a finish line at the same from about a mile away and trying to call it with the naked eye. You can't do it honestly. And then you factor in that NXT would have a large domestic audience that consumes it via the WWE Network -- it just goes without saying. I'm not talking millions, obviously, but the average fan is probably going to watch AEW live and either watch NXT on DVR or the Network the next day. This is all perfectly reasonable. 

That's why AEW "winning" by a few thousand viewers never impresses me. They've won the last two weeks, but when people act like 833k versus 829k is some sort of definitive victory? Get fucked with that shit. 

And nothing about what I've said about dropping Nielsen is false, either. Look it up. You'd think they'd have found a better way to gather ratings data by now, but it's still guesswork and a lot of networks don't trust it as much as Meltzer and Alvarez seem to.


----------



## Cult03

Gh0stFace said:


> So suddenly since AEW is winning it's "fuck the ratings they don't matter... and how sure can we be that those figures are true anyway?". LOL this "us vs. them" mob mentality amongst fans is something else. I bet you would fully stand by the ratings rather than question their credibility if NXT was crushing AEW.
> 
> But I admit I fall into that line-of-thinking sometimes. I hate WWE. They may have made wrestling popular, but they also killed wrestling for me. I don't watch NXT because it's associated with WWE and anything WWE related makes me annoyed -- that's how much they pissed me off over the years.
> 
> In defense of WWE loyalists here, I understand what it's like when you invest so much of your time in a product; it almost becomes a part of you. So when there's any threat to success, it's seen as a threat against us. It becomes personal, so I understand how some of these dudes can rant on for pages.


I have always said ratings don't matter. On Australian television, Married at First Sight is one of our highest rating shows. It sucks. Just because a lot of people watch something doesn't make it good. And until someone can prove to me who is watching what, it's not an accurate measurement.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Cult03 said:


> I have always said ratings don't matter. On Australian television, Married at First Sight is one of our highest rating shows. It sucks. Just because a lot of people watch something doesn't make it good. And until someone can prove to me who is watching what, it's not an accurate measurement.


That is true as the masses are brainwashed cogs in a reptilian machine. And it's true that just because a lot of people watch it, it doesn't mean it's good. (Ex. RAW & Smackdown, wait nvm they lost millions). But when it comes to whether or not AEW will continue to making waves on national TV, ratings are a very important factor. The show needs to blow up and become more popular from a business perspective; do you have a better idea of how to measure success without the numbers reflecting how many people and which demos are watching?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Apple v Android
Xbox v PS4
Marvel v DC

We'll always get fandoms choosing sides. Nothing new. What I don't get is any defence of a 20 year monopoly like they are some fragile, innocent fairy. 'the fans are the ones that win'

fuck em is what I say - a monopoly is bad for the wrestlers


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Exactly. No one roots for all of the sports teams in a league, fans latch on to a team and follow them exclusively.

That is how wrestling works for me. I was a WCW fan, then for about 2 years a fan of WWF, then a TNA fan, now an AEW fan.


----------



## imthegame19

Meltzer went over some quarter ratings on Observer radio today. It sounds like opening tag and Cody interview did very well. He said Moxley beat down by Inner Circle did 987,000 viewers. 


Lowest rating of the night appears to be Pac/Darby Allin which lost 88,000 viewers to do 842,000. He said he will release full numbers for this show and next week's show in next week's observer.


----------



## Gh0stFace

imthegame19 said:


> Lowest rating of the night appears to be Pac/Darby Allin which lost 88,000 viewers to do 842,000. He said he will release full numbers for this show and next week's show in next week's observer.


Damn that match was lit. Perfect amount of time, delivered on all cylinders. I will never understand those 88,000 people


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Gh0stFace said:


> Damn that match was lit. Perfect amount of time, delivered on all cylinders. I will never understand those 88,000 people


The problem we have is they are both not known yet to the general public. Both of them need blood feuds with Cody, Moxley or Jericho. They will draw with time.


----------



## imthegame19

Gh0stFace said:


> Damn that match was lit. Perfect amount of time, delivered on all cylinders. I will never understand those 88,000 people


Ya I like Moxley/Guevara a lot but Pac/Darby was probably better. I think it just comes down too. Not enough fans view either guy as a star. With Pac run as Neville he was big in NXT before they really were big. Then he got put on main roster as mid card guy.

After he came back from injury they put him in cruiserweight stuff. With him getting some exposure on Raw and cutting strong promos. But he was never taken seriously always on preshow of ppvs. So I don't think enough fans view him as a star to carry main event match. While Darby got great exposure wrestling Cody twice, Jericho and Moxley. He also hasn't won any of those matches. So they probably didn't expect him to win here either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Gh0stFace said:


> Damn that match was lit. Perfect amount of time, delivered on all cylinders. I will never understand those 88,000 people


Don’t worry.... somebody will write an essay about it ?‍♂


----------



## The Wood

Lol, who defends WWE like they’re some vulnerable fairy or whatever the phrase was? God, that sentiment is so ridiculous.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Last week I said it was a trainwreck ... but this week was fire from the beginning to end minus Nightmare Collective. It felt as if they listened to fans and made adjustments.


----------



## Cult03

Gh0stFace said:


> That is true as the masses are brainwashed cogs in a reptilian machine. And it's true that just because a lot of people watch it, it doesn't mean it's good. (Ex. RAW & Smackdown, wait nvm they lost millions). But when it comes to whether or not AEW will continue to making waves on national TV, ratings are a very important factor. The show needs to blow up and become more popular from a business perspective; do you have a better idea of how to measure success without the numbers reflecting how many people and which demos are watching?


The only thing that matters to me is how much it entertains me. If you see my positives and negatives in the weekly thread you'd see that almost half of it does, but there's plenty of dumb shit that if they fixed, would create the monster of wrestling we all actually want to see. They're hindering themselves


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Apple v Android
> Xbox v PS4
> Marvel v DC
> 
> We'll always get fandoms choosing sides. Nothing new. What I don't get is any defence of a 20 year monopoly like they are some fragile, innocent fairy. 'the fans are the ones that win'
> 
> fuck em is what I say - a monopoly is bad for the wrestlers


AEW v Not AEW? Barely any of the people who criticize AEW talk up WWE as much as some of you act like we do, if at all. It's a cop out and an attempt to make the person with the opposing opinion look bad, instead of actually debating the stance. Its bullshit.


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> AEW v Not AEW? Barely any of the people who criticize AEW talk up WWE as much as some of you act like we do, if at all. It's a cop out and an attempt to make the person with the opposing opinion look bad, instead of actually debating the stance. Its bullshit.


Yes! I’m so sick of this. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person on here say anything especially positive about WWE. At all.


----------



## RBrooks

Gh0stFace said:


> But I admit I fall into that line-of-thinking sometimes. I hate WWE. They may have made wrestling popular, but they also killed wrestling for me. I don't watch NXT because it's associated with WWE and anything WWE related makes me annoyed -- that's how much they pissed me off over the years.


I agree with this. I watched WWE for too damn long to give them ANY fucking benefits of the doubt. Even when my favorites are pushed, they just FUCK everything up, so sometimes it's better to take the negative approach with this shitty company and praise them IF (a biggest fucking IF) they do the right thing. For example - I like Bray, so when they put the title on him, I cheer and clap. I hate Brock, so when they take the title off him (even if it's Rollins or Reigns, who I don't like) - I cheer and praise the decision. When they have great matches and storylines like Ciampa vs Gargano (which was pretty good at times), I enjoy it. But right now with AEW on air, I don't watch any of that. Because I KNOW they will screw up, because at the end of the day - Vince is gonna vince. I'd rather give my free time to the company I trust for the time being. Granted - I could manage to hate AEW later, but right now I just have mild concerns or nitpicks at best. I generally enjoy the shows. I like certain wrestlers, I dislike certain wrestlers, but it's always been this way. It pales in comparison with WWE where everything you see is either a random not-planned success (like Punk or Bryan, who's pushes they were not planning), or something that they are behind being screwed up at the end, because they don't know what they're doing. I've seen people praise Seth's faction, or womens matches, or Usos vs Revival or some stuff. Sorry, but that's not enough to get me back. You have to prove to me that you'll consistently be better than you've been for the last god knows how many years. And I know that's not gonna happen with Vince in charge, so it is what it is. I'll enjoy a few things, but that won't be enough to get me to buy the Network anymore, or smth. I enjoy AEW enough, for now. I open the WWE YT channel and I see NXT highlights, and I'm like... who are all of these people? Match, match, match... no storylines, nothing. And when I tune in to watch a Gargano segment, or Adam Cole segment, or Ciampa, Balor... whoever is the "top guy" there - they don't feel like a big deal. At all. So NXT is losing steam a lot lately. And I loved it a year and more ago. 



> In defense of WWE loyalists here, I understand what it's like when you invest so much of your time in a product; it almost becomes a part of you. So when there's any threat to success, it's seen as a threat against us. It becomes personal, so I understand how some of these dudes can rant on for pages.


This was me like 15 years ago. I defended everything WWE did, but if I watch some of the stuff from say 2006 today, I'll vomit right away. It was a really shitty year. So I completely understand that mentality. You like something because you grew up with it, so you can't let go. But some people need to grow out of it already. The more people will get watching WWE out of their habit, the more concerned WWE would be, and then MAYBE they'll put a decent product on TV. Big maybe, of course. Their big TV contracts say nothing's gonna change, though, so there's that.


----------



## LongPig666

Gh0stFace said:


> I don't watch NXT because it's associated with WWE and anything WWE related makes me annoyed


For me its because the wrestlers on NXT all peaked 2,3,4,5 years ago on the indy circuit. NXT is like the PWG hand me down center.


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> For me its because the wrestlers on NXT all peaked 2,3,4,5 years ago on the indy circuit. NXT is like the PWG hand me down center.


Lol, that’s not true. So many have either gotten better or aren’t anywhere near their prime. You could be making a valid point about Kenny Omega though. Guy hasn’t had a great match in over a year, and his peak was in 2017.


----------



## Gh0stFace

LongPig666 said:


> For me its because the wrestlers on NXT all peaked 2,3,4,5 years ago on the indy circuit. NXT is like the PWG hand me down center.


All the top guys are from PWG. It looks like WWE expected NXT to deal finishing blow to AEW in ratings but it was hit and a miss. Regardless, AEW took the situation and spun "Wednesday Night War" into a marketing ploy to develop a devoted loyal following as the result of the divide between the fans in the war.


----------



## The Dude

Gh0stFace said:


> Damn that match was lit. Perfect amount of time, delivered on all cylinders. I will never understand those 88,000 people


They don’t care about matches for the sake of workrate. Like the majority of fans.


----------



## The Wood

NXT was not going to finish AEW overnight. No one except marks and Meltzer believes that.


----------



## Cult03

Gh0stFace said:


> All the top guys are from PWG. It looks like WWE expected NXT to deal finishing blow to AEW in ratings but it was hit and a miss. Regardless, AEW took the situation and spun "Wednesday Night War" into a marketing ploy to develop a devoted loyal following as the result of the divide between the fans in the war.


I loved Velveteen Dreams run in PWG. Those tope suicidas he picked up there are incredible.


----------



## LongPig666

The Wood said:


> Lol, that’s not true.


Yeah, it is!



> So many have either gotten better or aren’t anywhere near their prime.


Examples? Because people like Adam Cole, Keith Lee, Kassius Ohno and Pete Dunne are doing nothing whatsoever different or better than they did in the indy's in the last 10 years!



> You could be making a valid point about Kenny Omega though. Guy hasn’t had a great match in over a year, and his peak was in 2017.


And another straw man! Omega isn't in NXT, keep up fella!


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> Yeah, it is!
> 
> 
> 
> Examples? Because people like Adam Cole, Keith Lee, Kassius Ohno and Pete Dunne are doing nothing whatsoever different or better than they did in the indy's in the last 10 years!
> 
> 
> 
> And another straw man! Omega isn't in NXT, keep up fella!


No, it’s not.

Adam Cole and the entirety of Undisputed Era are A LOT better than they were on the indies. They’ve developed a lot more complete personalities and know how to structure matches a lot better.

Keith Lee and Pete Dunne are developing into amazing workers. They’re getting more polished all the time.

Chris Hero did amazing independent work, but some of his NXT stuff has been absolutely perfect for what it is supposed to be.

And those are just the examples you used.

The point was that Omega peaked two years ago, not that he is in NXT, lol.


----------



## LongPig666

The Wood said:


> Adam Cole and the entirety of Undisputed Era are A LOT better than they were on the indies.


UE wasn’t in the Indy’s, it’s a WWE thing! Besides Cole peaked when he was in the Elite.



> Keith Lee and Pete Dunne are developing into amazing workers.


They already were amazing wrestlers who’s prestige was got long before they went into WWE. As for Hero, comparing his early matches and the opponents he faced then saying he is better in WWE is just plain dumb.



> They’re getting more polished all the time.


Who cares! This is not an objective measure of a pro-wrestlers performance. You are treating the words “development” and “polished” as the same. All polished means to you and other WWE fans is “corporately PG, safe and friendly” for soccer moms and kiddies. For example:

Fully Developed: Walter, Kana, Dunne, Danielson, End, Ciampa, Riddle, Ripley etc etc

Polished: Bella’s, Reigns, Corbin, Bliss, Lynch, Evans, Miz etc etc

You see the difference?


----------



## Jonhern

LongPig666 said:


> UE wasn’t in the Indy’s, it’s a WWE thing! Besides Cole peaked when he was in the Elite.
> 
> 
> 
> They already were amazing wrestlers who’s prestige was got long before they went into WWE. As for Hero, comparing his early matches and the opponents he faced then saying he is better in WWE is just plain dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares! This is not an objective measure of a pro-wrestlers performance. You are treating the words “development” and “polished” as the same. All polished means to you and other WWE fans is “corporately PG, safe and friendly” for soccer moms and kiddies. For example:
> 
> Fully Developed: Walter, Kana, Dunne, Danielson, End, Ciampa, Riddle, Ripley etc etc
> 
> Polished: Bella’s, Reigns, Corbin, Bliss, Lynch, Evans, Miz etc etc
> 
> You see the difference?


A lot of them don't need more development as you point out, they are in NXT to make them learn WWE style basically and how they do things on TV. Some say polished, others would say over produced.


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> UE wasn’t in the Indy’s, it’s a WWE thing! Besides Cole peaked when he was in the Elite.
> 
> 
> 
> They already were amazing wrestlers who’s prestige was got long before they went into WWE. As for Hero, comparing his early matches and the opponents he faced then saying he is better in WWE is just plain dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares! This is not an objective measure of a pro-wrestlers performance. You are treating the words “development” and “polished” as the same. All polished means to you and other WWE fans is “corporately PG, safe and friendly” for soccer moms and kiddies. For example:
> 
> Fully Developed: Walter, Kana, Dunne, Danielson, End, Ciampa, Riddle, Ripley etc etc
> 
> Polished: Bella’s, Reigns, Corbin, Bliss, Lynch, Evans, Miz etc etc
> 
> You see the difference?


Every single member of UE worked the indies. Wtf are you talking about? Cole is still yet to hit his peak.

Keith Lee needs to develop a lot more skills. He does some stuff really well and other things not so well. He could actually use development. When it comes to Hero, you know wresting is a work, right? I honestly haven’t seen that much of Hero outside WWE, but that kind of proves a point — the platform helps the guys.

It sounds like you’ve got 15-year-old boy syndrome. Polished doesn’t mean what you’re saying it means. Polished can mean working to the hard camera, working to a crowd, getting timing and pacing down, working to cues, developing poiseetc. 

You list a bunch of guys (and girl) who have gotten a shitload out of developmental and working WWE. Bryan in particular. He’s become one of the best workers in the world. Dunne, Ripley and Riddle are either so young or so new that they are getting better all the time. I don’t know what your point is here.

The Bellas, The Miz, Bliss and Evans aren’t polished. Wtf? Reigns is a damn good worker, and if he were in AEW, people would cream themselves.

In fact, look at who the best parts of AEW have been: Jericho, Cody, Moxley...notice a pattern? Even Shawn Spears was ahead of a lot of guys because of that WWE experience.

You can dislike their content or consider them the evil empire without resorting to “not WWE = good, training with WWE = bad.”


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> No, it’s not.
> 
> Adam Cole and the entirety of Undisputed Era are A LOT better than they were on the indies. They’ve developed a lot more complete personalities and know how to structure matches a lot better.
> 
> Keith Lee and Pete Dunne are developing into amazing workers. They’re getting more polished all the time.
> 
> Chris Hero did amazing independent work, but some of his NXT stuff has been absolutely perfect for what it is supposed to be.
> 
> And those are just the examples you used.
> 
> The point was that Omega peaked two years ago, not that he is in NXT, lol.


You sounding like a WWE shill

Adam Cole and Undisputed is a geek squad. They havent developed any personality outside of 'Adam Cole Baybaaaaaaaaaaay'

Keith and Pete were already great. Their value has dropped on NXT to the point Keith Lee cant carry a show.

Chris Herro has been a bust.

Kenny Omega is an EVP, wrestler and over as a babyface.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Yes! I’m so sick of this. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person on here say anything especially positive about WWE. At all.


Remember when you said aew would die before wrestlemania? Yet you still show up here - no shame


----------



## Cult03

LongPig666 said:


> UE wasn’t in the Indy’s, it’s a WWE thing! Besides Cole peaked when he was in the Elite.
> 
> 
> 
> They already were amazing wrestlers who’s prestige was got long before they went into WWE. As for Hero, comparing his early matches and the opponents he faced then saying he is better in WWE is just plain dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares! This is not an objective measure of a pro-wrestlers performance. You are treating the words “development” and “polished” as the same. All polished means to you and other WWE fans is “corporately PG, safe and friendly” for soccer moms and kiddies. For example:
> 
> Fully Developed: Walter, Kana, Dunne, Danielson, End, Ciampa, Riddle, Ripley etc etc
> 
> Polished: Bella’s, Reigns, Corbin, Bliss, Lynch, Evans, Miz etc etc
> 
> You see the difference?


I wish the bucks would be polished. They'd be great if they could learn how to sell and how to tell a story in the ring.


----------



## Cult03

K4L318 said:


> You sounding like a WWE shill
> 
> Adam Cole and Undisputed is a geek squad. They havent developed any personality outside of 'Adam Cole Baybaaaaaaaaaaay'
> 
> Keith and Pete were already great. Their value has dropped on NXT to the point Keith Lee cant carry a show.
> 
> Chris Herro has been a bust.
> 
> Kenny Omega is an EVP, wrestler and over as a babyface.


Keith Lee carrying a PWG show VS being over on an NXT show every week. Hmm I wonder which could possibly be better


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> You sounding like a WWE shill
> 
> Adam Cole and Undisputed is a geek squad. They havent developed any personality outside of 'Adam Cole Baybaaaaaaaaaaay'
> 
> Keith and Pete were already great. Their value has dropped on NXT to the point Keith Lee cant carry a show.
> 
> Chris Herro has been a bust.
> 
> Kenny Omega is an EVP, wrestler and over as a babyface.


Lol, I fucking hate WWE. It’s not shilling to point out the truth though. 

AEW would snatch up UE if they were free agents. Adam Cole would probably be an EVP. That’s your bias talking.

Keith Lee could carry a show where? In PWG? Get fucked. He’s learning how to cover all bases and is going to end up a bigger star by all metrics now.

Yep, Chris Hero has been such a bust he went back specifically to fill this role.

What does being an EVP have to do with your ring skill? He’s over in front of that crowd. He’s attracted no new fans. The accusation was NXT has guys who are past their prime. I raise you 



Pippen94 said:


> Remember when you said aew would die before wrestlemania? Yet you still show up here - no shame


Citation needed or I am going to call you out for being a liar.


----------



## Jonhern

Got second-row seat for the Prudential center show. Not a horror show like past events but it's only the presale, and it's on a weird time, TM usually does presales Wednesdays at 10am, but this started today at 9am. Most of the floor seats that were available are gone already and the lower part of most of the lower section too, IDK if they were all on sale though. The full sale starts tomorrow.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict a measurable dip in the demo as last night was all about Zions debut. It was at the top, trending on everything measurable and that is the same key audience AEW goes against. It isn’t AEW vs NXT, it’s AEW ca NBA.


----------



## RiverFenix

I don't think Zion's first game will matter much. Maybe his fourth quarter showing out would have got channel flippers with the SM blow up of that but Dynamite would have been over by that time. He was non-existent for the first 3Q's mostly and I think most fans would have tuned out and waited for highlights of the game. 

Taped aspect is what I'm more curious about - fans knew what segment was coming up versus having to watch in case you miss something live. I think the unique venue will largely offset that though. Key for Dynamite is the first match capturing the viewers and I think the title change and hot match will have won the opening over NXT. NXT's huge win on the 18th was Cole vs Balor to open the show - where many expected a title change to boot. They then closed with Shayna/Ripley vs that brutal Dark Order angle.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I don't think Zion's first game will matter much. Maybe his fourth quarter showing out would have got channel flippers with the SM blow up of that but Dynamite would have been over by that time. He was non-existent for the first 3Q's mostly and I think most fans would have tuned out and waited for highlights of the game.
> 
> Taped aspect is what I'm more curious about - fans knew what segment was coming up versus having to watch in case you miss something live. I think the unique venue will largely offset that though. Key for Dynamite is the first match capturing the viewers and I think the title change and hot match will have won the opening over NXT. NXT's huge win on the 18th was Cole vs Balor to open the show - where many expected a title change to boot. They then closed with Shayna/Ripley vs that brutal Dark Order angle.


that title change was long overdue. I also think it was a mistake to film it at night, they should have done it during the day to give it a different vibe. Felt more like WCW at MGM then it being on a cruise ship.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I reckon the cruise ship aspect will push them over a million viewers this week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

A PG Attitude said:


> I reckon the cruise ship aspect will push them over a million viewers this week.


And hopefully the Mox title chase keeps them above that spot for good. I really hope they get back above .4 in the demo more than a million in viewers but both would be fun.


----------



## A PG Attitude

TKO Wrestling said:


> And hopefully the Mox title chase keeps them above that spot for good. I really hope they get back above .4 in the demo more than a million in viewers but both would be fun.


Absolutely. If they do it properly it could mirror the build to Mania 14, could use that feud as a template for Moxley Jericho.


----------



## qntntgood

A PG Attitude said:


> I reckon the cruise ship aspect will push them over a million viewers this week.


We'll because the bot's and shill's were out last posting soilers and advising nxt.


----------



## roadkill_

A PG Attitude said:


> I reckon the cruise ship aspect will push them over a million viewers this week.


I reckon they'll routinely break 1M by 2021.


----------



## bdon

We never got segment by segment ratings for last week’s show?


----------



## Aedubya

bdon said:


> We never got segment by segment ratings for last week’s show?


It was posted pages back


----------



## Aedubya

I will go for 0.88 this week

Not being live will hurt it


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

goddamn that's impressive for a non-live show. GG


----------



## DOTL

They really weren't kidding about basketball.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> goddamn that's impressive for a non-live show. GG



When WWE holds their audience for a taped show its " well history has shown taped shows have no effect on ratings". When AEW does, its, "God damn pal thats impressive". Ok lol


----------



## DOTL

RainmakerV2 said:


> When WWE holds their audience for a taped show its " well history has shown taped shows have no effect on ratings". When AEW does, its, "God damn pal thats impressive". Ok lol


It's not the taping. It's basketball. It dominated the demo.


----------



## imthegame19

Kinda the rating I expected with being tape show. A lot of the viewers where gonna watch NXT live. That said AEW setting was gonna help them still. So I still expected AEW to win but NXT to close gap a bit and that happen.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> When WWE holds their audience for a taped show its " well history has shown taped shows have no effect on ratings". When AEW does, its, "God damn pal thats impressive". Ok lol


where did i say that


----------



## RainmakerV2

DOTL said:


> It's not the taping. It's basketball. It dominated the demo.


And RAW demolished a prime time Lakers vs. Celtics game by 500k. So.


----------



## DOTL

RainmakerV2 said:


> And RAW demolished a prime time Lakers vs. Celtics game by 500k. So.


Raw is also.. .Raw.

I mean,if AEW was on Raw's level in terms of ratings it would be able to air on Monday.


----------



## Alright_Mate

A PG Attitude said:


> I reckon the cruise ship aspect will push them over a million viewers this week.


   

In the words of Randy Orton...Stupid!


----------



## RiverFenix

Yep, I guess Zion is a thing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> And RAW demolished a prime time Lakers vs. Celtics game by 500k. So.


 Because this is the raw ratings thread


----------



## Aedubya

So did AEW win the 'ratings war' this week over WWE?


----------



## qntntgood

Aedubya said:


> So did AEW win the 'ratings war' this week over WWE?


 Yes aew came in number 8 with over 871,000. 0.35 in 18-49 demographic
Nxt came in at number 35 with 791,000 0.24 in 18-49 demographic


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> where did i say that




You didnt say "God damn thats impressive"?


----------



## DOTL

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Because this is the raw ratings thread


There was also Zion's debut. which I forgot about. So it's not like it was a typical NBA game.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Most likey both shows will continue to hover where they have been. There will be a little fluctuation up and down for both shows with some viewers switching between the two. I feel this is as far as "pro wrestling" can get to.

If you look back towards the late 90's you can see what Nitro and RAW had that really began to cause new viewers to begin tuning in each week....Storyline. With the introduction of the nWo on Nitro and the begining of Mr. McMahon both companies had a storyline that had fans clamoring each week to see just what would happen next. Now we are in the realm of Sports Entertainment. Until either company finds that story to get the non-usual fans watching, then this where they will be settling in at.

Between the two, Dynamite has more of a chance to do that type of storyline as the are more inline with sports entertainment than they probably want to admit. NXT will continue the path of professional wrestling as that is what the show has always been about.


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> I will go for 0.88 this week
> 
> Not being live will hurt it


So close!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> You didnt say "God damn thats impressive"?


and where did i say "well history has shown taped shows have no effect on ratings"

do you think i am anti-wwe? i watch raw every week bro. please stop quoting me


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> and where did i say "well history has shown taped shows have no effect on ratings"
> 
> do you think i am anti-wwe? i watch raw every week bro. please stop quoting me



I didnt say you said that.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

qntntgood said:


> Yes aew came in number 8 with over 871,000. 0.35 in 18-49 demographic
> Nxt came in at number 35 with 791,000 0.24 in 18-49 demographic


NXT was 769,000


----------



## Taroostyles

Not surprised basketball crushed last night, it was the debut of Zion Williamson and there was a ton of hype for his 1st game after being out all year.


----------



## MrThortan

I can admit that I would probably watch NXT had WWE not decided to counter-program Dynamite. How dare another company get into wrestling!!! Haven't really watched a WWE product since AEW started. I will be buying the RR though, as it is my favorite wrestling event. 

Glad to see AEW have another week of strong numbers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> I didnt say you said that.


so why quote me as if i said that? i don't get your point otherwise, you acting like i have double standards for wwe and aew.

like you ****** real goofy.

like this level of goofy


----------



## qntntgood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> NXT was 769,000


Damn my bad, it was 769,000 and placed 35 for the night.no wonder there is alot talk about change's coming to nxt.


----------



## One Shed

Good number considering NBA competition and it being a taped show/spoilers available.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> so why quote me as if i said that? i don't get your point otherwise, you acting like i have double standards for wwe and aew.
> 
> like you ****** real goofy.
> 
> like this level of goofy



I put quotes around it signifying that its something thats commonly said. If you thought it was meant as you saying it, thats my bad. I was more referring to the time SD was in London with Corbin in the ME and the ratings actually improved from the week prior and Meltzer and Alvarez were on the next day saying, "remember taped shows have historically had no effect on the rating". Cause God forbid this guy we shit on all the time actually posted a good number. I had never heard that before. I always assumed taped shows had an effect because, why wouldnt they in the age of the internet?

Btw, wtf did they do to WF with this last update? The shits running so slow on my mobile its taken me like an hour to type this. Jesus.


----------



## Intimidator3

Taroostyles said:


> Not surprised basketball crushed last night, it was the debut of Zion Williamson and there was a ton of hype for his 1st game after being out all year.


I'm trying to think if there's been a bigger rookie debut since Lebron. Maybe Curry but he didn't even get the Zion hype.


----------



## qntntgood

RainmakerV2 said:


> I put quotes around it signifying that its something thats commonly said. If you thought it was meant as you saying it, thats my bad. I was more referring to the time SD was in London with Corbin in the ME and the ratings actually improved from the week prior and Meltzer and Alvarez were on the next day saying, "remember taped shows have historically had no effect on the rating". Cause God forbid this guy we shit on all the time actually posted a good number. I had never heard that before. I always assumed taped shows had an effect because, why wouldnt they in the age of the internet?
> 
> Btw, wtf did they do to WF with this last update? The shits running so slow on my mobile its taken me like an hour to type this. Jesus.


Meltzer and Alvarez are full of shit,both of these clowns are bullshit artist to the fullest.


----------



## RiverFenix

Intimidator3 said:


> I'm trying to think if there's been a bigger rookie debut since Lebron. Maybe Curry but he didn't even get the Zion hype.


Curry wouldn't have been close to the hype - dude was a mid lotto pick. Maybe Blake Griffin.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Shaq or Garnett possibly. The hype for those two heading into the draft was pretty insane. Though I would say that Shaq's hype was ridicules back in the day. And that was done with no social media and basically zero internet.


----------



## bdon

Not another NBA debut with this kind of hype. Rightfully so. Never been an athlete with this much strength, agility, and explosion at this age. Bron was more skilled, but he didn’t have the strength to play center in his rookie year the way Zion is.

The NBA becoming a bunch of “vanilla midgets” (funny how that extends beyond the squared circle) ruined the game, and it opens the door for a guy built like Zion to absolutely destroy all in his path.


----------



## bdon

Not another NBA debut with this kind of hype. Rightfully so. Never been an athlete with this much strength, agility, and explosion at this age. Bron was more skilled, but he didn’t have the strength to play center in his rookie year the way Zion is.

The NBA becoming a bunch of “vanilla midgets” (funny how that extends beyond the squared circle) ruined the game, and it opens the door for a guy built like Zion to absolutely destroy all in his path.


----------



## bdon

Aedubya said:


> It was posted pages back


The only mention of it was Darby/Pac losing viewers and Moxley gaining. Wasn’t a full breakdown.


----------



## Taroostyles

Intimidator3 said:


> I'm trying to think if there's been a bigger rookie debut since Lebron. Maybe Curry but he didn't even get the Zion hype.


Curry was drafted 7th I think and had like zero hype actually. Zion is the biggest since Lebron for sure. The only one since Lebron that comes close even is Anthony Davis.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> The only mention of it was Darby/Pac losing viewers and Moxley gaining. Wasn’t a full breakdown.


Meltzer said rating break downs for last week and this weeks show will be in this weeks observer.


----------



## Intimidator3

Taroostyles said:


> Curry was drafted 7th I think and had like zero hype actually. Zion is the biggest since Lebron for sure. The only one since Lebron that comes close even is Anthony Davis.


Curry had plenty of hype. He had everybody talking about Cinderella Davidson. The only player that had more talk than him was Griffin. But none of them had that Lebron/Kobe/Shaq/KG hype. Zion is the only one I’d say got that kind of attention. People have been talking about him since he was 16.


----------



## Intimidator3

Bloody Warpath said:


> Shaq or Garnett possibly. The hype for those two heading into the draft was pretty insane. Though I would say that Shaq's hype was ridicules back in the day. And that was done with no social media and basically zero internet.


Shaq was a star before he was even drafted. He would’ve made a good wrestler too lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Props to them their tape show did significantly better than live NXT and they were still top 10. You really have to be obtuse to be shitting on them at this point lol. Doesn't mean you have to like the product, but shitting on their ratings is absurd at this point


----------



## captainzombie

RapShepard said:


> Props to them their tape show did significantly better than live NXT and they were still top 10. You really have to be obtuse to be shitting on them at this point lol. Doesn't mean you have to like the product, but shitting on their ratings is absurd at this point


That is the issue, those that want to hate on AEW will continue to do so regardless. My thing is if you don't like a show, why keep watching it if it sucks? Time is precious to me, so I won't waste it watching horrible TV.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Intimidator3 said:


> Shaq was a star before he was even drafted. He would’ve made a good wrestler too lol.


I remember in high school, my buddies and I could not wait to meet up in the courtyard before school to talk about Shaq's LSU highlights from the night before. It was insane what he was doing.


----------



## RapShepard

captainzombie said:


> That is the issue, those that want to hate on AEW will continue to do so regardless. My thing is if you don't like a show, why keep watching it if it sucks? Time is precious to me, so I won't waste it watching horrible TV.


Folk love to hate watch, I been a pushed of if you don't like it don't watch in the WWE section for years. Apparently folk will watch a show religiously even though they only like a small percentage of the show.


----------



## Cult03

captainzombie said:


> That is the issue, those that want to hate on AEW will continue to do so regardless. My thing is if you don't like a show, why keep watching it if it sucks? Time is precious to me, so I won't waste it watching horrible TV.


Well I know who you're talking about and I feel as though I should non-aggressively reply and leave it at that.

I watch because I like a lot of the roster. Unfortunately I hate the rest of the roster.
I watch because I like a lot of the wrestling. Unfortunately I hate the rest of the wrestling.
I watch because they promised to be different. Unfortunately a lot of their stuff is the same.
I watch because I expect them to come good eventually, once they start taking themselves and the industry seriously.
People who have bias and hate the company don't sit here for hours posting how they could improve. Even that incredibly intelligent Bdon bloke has praised my ideas.
I watch because I want them to challenge Raw and Smackdown, not have their entire fan base brag about beating NXT by a little bit. AEW has legit main eventers, NXT has future main eventers. They bloody well should be winning every week. And they are, despite themselves not giving their best. 

And finally, this is the most important part. I watch and comment because this place shouldn't be an echo chamber filled with the opinion that the show is perfect. I criticize because I want them to fix their shit so they can be the company that not only we were promised, but that we deserve. I'm not willing to settle for a show that less than a million watch when the other company serves up similar bullshit and gets 2.5 million viewers. 

Now if you guys want to discuss the show with me go for it, but don't paint me with the troll brush simply for disagreeing with the sycophants. If you believe in this company as much as you claim you'd debate the points made and stop attempting to win the argument by attacking the man.


----------



## RiverFenix

> Zion Williamson's NBA regular season debut had a 1.6 US rating, which matches ESPN's highest-rated game this season beyond Christmas Day.
> The game averaged 2.357 million viewers and peaked with 2.777 million viewers.
> Williamson had 22 points, seven rebounds and three assists while shooting 4-for-4 on three-point shooting in just over 18 minutes.


Ben Cafardo/ESPN


----------



## Bosnian21

Zion’s NBA debut was huge. Makes sense that his game drew a lot on the younger demo as NBA fans skew younger.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

MrThortan said:


> I can admit that I would probably watch NXT had WWE not decided to counter-program Dynamite. How dare another company get into wrestling!!! Haven't really watched a WWE product since AEW started. I will be buying the RR though, as it is my favorite wrestling event.
> 
> Glad to see AEW have another week of strong numbers.


We might be the same person. I stopped watching NXT after Takeover 25 but caught up at Toronto. I haven't watched since. The Rumble is my favorite PPV so I will watch that and probably Mania too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> We might be the same person. I stopped watching NXT after Takeover 25 but caught up at Toronto. I haven't watched since. The Rumble is my favorite PPV so I will watch that and probably Mania too.


i was fully intending to get the Network again for the Rumble.... until somebody mentioned ‘an hour long women’s rumble and an hour long men’s rumble’...... and then I was like ‘nah dawg.... maybe I’ll youtube the highlights’


----------



## The Masked Avenger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i was fully intending to get the Network again for the Rumble.... until somebody mentioned ‘an hour long women’s rumble and an hour long men’s rumble’...... and then I was like ‘nah dawg.... maybe I’ll youtube the highlights’


As long as the matches are good I don't even realize how long it is. I have enjoyed the last two women's rumbles honestly.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I can't stand WWE programming but I will be watching the Rumble.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> i was fully intending to get the Network again for the Rumble.... until somebody mentioned ‘an hour long women’s rumble and an hour long men’s rumble’...... and then I was like ‘nah dawg.... maybe I’ll youtube the highlights’


Exactly. I used to love the Rumble but, like everything else, WWE has driven me away shoving the women matches down my throat.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW no longer on ITV4 in the UK and UK fans will have to pay for a subscription service FiteTV to keep watching.



> All Elite Wrestling has a deal with ITV 4 in the UK. ITV announced that they are closing the Box Office service. This is effective immediately with no further plans to air any other events on the service.


----------



## Aedubya

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW no longer on ITV4 in the UK


Where does it say this?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW no longer on ITV4 in the UK and UK fans will have to pay for a subscription service FiteTV to keep watching.


This is partially correct. Dynamite will still be aired on ITV4. However, PPVs are now only available on fitetv


----------



## Jman55

Yeah ITV's PPV service as a whole is shutting down yet for some reason ringsidenews is equating that to AEW losing the entire TV deal good old fashioned quality journalism right there (still a shame the option for people who don't use fite for pay per views is down though)


----------



## Garty

I have returned from my self-imposed sabbatical, only to see that The Dude has been banned and The Wood, hasn't posted anything in 2 days. Now, it's entirely possible that it's just a coincidence that both have "disappeared" at the same time, but yeah... I think we can call BS on that not being a coincidence. In good ol' Wood fashion though, he'll be here to sell us on the idea of why he hasn't posted. The same guy who has continuously proven that he cannot stay away from this website for even a minute, puts his 2 cent "facts" into every post ad-nauseam, calls users that don't agree with him stupid, blind and marks of AEW and last but not least, he's always right. Yeah, that guy, The Wood. Where is he now?

On topic... the ratings this week are, no doubt, a little weak for sure, but those who want to claim that the NBA game took away viewers, or that it was a pre-taped show, so be it. There's no argument to be made. Maybe we can all agree that when something "big", other than wrestling, is scheduled for the same night and time as AEW and NXT, that that will always be the go-to claim, prior to seeing what the actual ratings are, the day after said "big" TV? It's not a "maybe", as much as it is, a "certain". Hell, looking at the cable ratings over the week, Fox News is garnering some huge numbers, even moreso than usual. Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham and even The Five, are doing 3 to 4+ million viewers a night because people are sick and tired of the other 24/7 biased (whether you agree with that statement or not... it's what EVERY network says) media coverage of the Trump Impeachment. Soon, that too will grow tired, if it hasn't done so already.

I think the ratings will remain stable, or increase slowly, building towards Revolution and if/when Moxley wins the AEW Championship from Jericho, they will, in my opinion, be seeing a rise in viewership overall. Of course, March brings on the NCAA Tournament, so... ?


----------



## llj

Taroostyles said:


> Curry was drafted 7th I think and had like zero hype actually. Zion is the biggest since Lebron for sure. The only one since Lebron that comes close even is Anthony Davis.


Curry had lots of hype but there were questions about how he would translate due to his size and high volume of shots. Many people figured another Jamal Crawford.


----------



## rbl85

The Newark ticket selling is doing good, more than 9K tickets sold.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> The Newark ticket selling is doing good, more than 9K tickets sold.


looks like pretty much the whole lower section is sold. And a good part of the center upper levels too which were not available in the presale.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Taroostyles said:


> Curry was drafted 7th I think and had like zero hype actually. Zion is the biggest since Lebron for sure. The only one since Lebron that comes close even is Anthony Davis.


Oden/Durant had a lot of hype too.


----------



## French Connection

rbl85 said:


> The Newark ticket selling is doing good, more than 9K tickets sold.


Do you have any numbers for the Atlanta's one? 
I still do not understand why they've hired a 21k seats venue.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

French Connection said:


> Do you have any numbers for the Atlanta's one?
> I still do not understand why they've hired a 21k seats venue.


Spiritual home of WCW and wrestling. And ticket master looking p full.


Cody discussed the history of pro wrestling in the South and name-dropped some of the greats from Georgia, including Ray Traylor, Ron Simmons, Arn Anderson, and The Armstrongs. He continued, "Which is why when AEW became official, what I'm about to tell you became inevitable. That we had to come to the state of Georgia, that we had to come to the city of Atlanta. When you think about The Omni, you think about The Philips Arena... If you're gonna do it, do it big. Which is why February 19th, AEW will present _Dynamite_ from the State Farm Arena.

"I look at this as a challenge, for all those who continue to say that the AEW fanbase isn't what you think it is, that it's not as big, that pro wrestling fans aren't out there anymore. Let's take this opportunity to prove them wrong."


----------



## rbl85

French Connection said:


> Do you have any numbers for the Atlanta's one?
> I still do not understand why they've hired a 21k seats venue.


It's an historical venue but they'll will be really far from selling it out, for the moment they sold less than 4k tickets.


----------



## Aedubya

French Connection said:


> Do you have any numbers for the Atlanta's one?
> I still do not understand why they've hired a 21k seats venue.



Not a hells chance will they even sell out half of that arena

What they playing at?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Oden/Durant had a lot of hype too.


-sigh-

Why'd you have to remind me of that?


----------



## Bosnian21

Apparently AEW have sold 10,000 tickets for their New Jersey show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> Not a hells chance will they even sell out half of that arena
> 
> What they playing at?


Maybe they got the venue cheap?


----------



## Jonhern

Newark looks like it could end up being a legit sell-out. They are already opening up the hard cam side upper-level seats. The few lower-level seats left are jacked up platinum seats.


----------



## Jonhern

French Connection said:


> Do you have any numbers for the Atlanta's one?
> I still do not understand why they've hired a 21k seats venue.


because they probably need space for their production setup. Smaller places are not always going to be able to accommodate them and they only pay for how much of the arena they open up.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> because they probably need space for their production setup. Smaller places are not always going to be able to accommodate them and they only pay for how much of the arena they open up.


I think they legit thought that they would do good in Atlanta because while the arena can hold 21k seats, AEW setting was for 10K max.


----------



## Garty

It's very easy to say that they "over estimated" their brand in Atlanta, but at the same time, Atlanta has always been a great market for wrestling, so you can understand why they would have gone ahead with their plan. If true what rbl85 has said, in being set-up for only 10,000 seats in the first place, then I don't think it's that bad... so far. They still have a few weeks to push the show and push the steel-cage match in particular. The closer that day comes and if it's still not close to capacity, then I'd say lesson learned. There's nothing you can do about it after the fact, except, make the necessary changes to that plan, before announcing a return to Atlanta.


----------



## rbl85

Garty said:


> It's very easy to say that they "over estimated" their brand in Atlanta, but at the same time, Atlanta has always been a great market for wrestling, so you can understand why they would have gone ahead with their plan. If true what rbl85 has said, in being set-up for only 10,000 seats in the first place, then I don't think it's that bad... so far. They still have a few weeks to push the show and push the steel-cage match in particular. The closer that day comes and if it's still not close to capacity, then I'd say lesson learned. There's nothing you can do about it after the fact, except, make the necessary changes to that plan, before announcing a return to Atlanta.


I think that for Atlanta they gave up the idea so sell tickets on the upper sections, so now the max tickets they can sell is around 5-6k.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> I have returned from my self-imposed sabbatical, only to see that The Dude has been banned and The Wood, hasn't posted anything in 2 days. Now, it's entirely possible that it's just a coincidence that both have "disappeared" at the same time, but yeah... I think we can call BS on that not being a coincidence. In good ol' Wood fashion though, he'll be here to sell us on the idea of why he hasn't posted. The same guy who has continuously proven that he cannot stay away from this website for even a minute, puts his 2 cent "facts" into every post ad-nauseam, calls users that don't agree with him stupid, blind and marks of AEW and last but not least, he's always right. Yeah, that guy, The Wood. Where is he now?
> 
> On topic... the ratings this week are, no doubt, a little weak for sure, but those who want to claim that the NBA game took away viewers, or that it was a pre-taped show, so be it. There's no argument to be made. Maybe we can all agree that when something "big", other than wrestling, is scheduled for the same night and time as AEW and NXT, that that will always be the go-to claim, prior to seeing what the actual ratings are, the day after said "big" TV? It's not a "maybe", as much as it is, a "certain". Hell, looking at the cable ratings over the week, Fox News is garnering some huge numbers, even moreso than usual. Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham and even The Five, are doing 3 to 4+ million viewers a night because people are sick and tired of the other 24/7 biased (whether you agree with that statement or not... it's what EVERY network says) media coverage of the Trump Impeachment. Soon, that too will grow tired, if it hasn't done so already.
> 
> I think the ratings will remain stable, or increase slowly, building towards Revolution and if/when Moxley wins the AEW Championship from Jericho, they will, in my opinion, be seeing a rise in viewership overall. Of course, March brings on the NCAA Tournament, so... ?


I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but why the hell do I owe you an explanation of why I haven't posted? Lol, I'm not obligated to. And if The Dude's account has been blocked (and that's a damn shame), then why would The Wood also be banned and therefore disappear? If we were the same person with different accounts, why wouldn't I just post with the one that wasn't banned? That's just silly. 

To say something relevant about the topic: I think historical wrestling hotbeds should not automatically be considered so in 2020. Wrestling fans have moved on. You've got Chicago and Orlando now.


----------



## rbl85

N0Mercy said:


> Wood, no comments on last Dynamite?


Come on man try at least to not be that obvious…..


----------



## The Principal

Newark ticket sales look good and I would not be surprised if the PPV this fall ends up in the NYC metro area.

Using the State Farm Arena in Atlanta for an episode of Dynamite is pretty ambitious. It is similar to the Capital One Arena in Washington that hosted the 1st episode of Dynamite. Probably around 14,000 seats available to use with the stage, ramp, ring, and production areas set up. I have no idea what their cost was to use it, but it seems like a smaller venue would be a better fit for an episode of Dynamite. State Farm Arena would be nice for a PPV (which is where I thought they would do their February PPV this year). I think McCamish Pavilion would have been a perfect venue for Dynamite. It was renovated in 2012, seats around 8500, and it is literally across the street from TNT’s headquarters. A full, smaller venue like that would look great on TV, and a hot crowd for a cage match would help generate some interest for future shows in Atlanta that might be able to fill the larger State Farm Arena.


----------



## The Wood

N0Mercy said:


> Wood, no comments on last Dynamite?


Nah, didn't watch. I read the results and there was a joke wrestler in every match except the main event. Didn't seem worth my time. It's a shame, because the week before was really good.


----------



## The Wood

N0Mercy said:


> That's a shame. You seem more obsessed with AEW than AEW fans.


I'm wrestling obsessed.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW Revolution on Feburary 29th. WWE announced they're back in Saudi Arabia for a SuperShow on Feb 28th. AEW Revolution from Chicago, Illinois. CM Punk twitter attacked Miz for taking Saudi blood money not too long ago. NXT "mistakenly" showed Britt Baker in their crowd the last Takeover...


----------



## The Wood

I'm going to go out on a limb with a wild prediction: I've called the ratings the past two weeks as an AEW victory. After the Rumble and the buzz around Keith Lee and Matt Riddle's Brock interaction, I think the ratings are going to be within reach this week. Especially after the shitty boat party taped show. 

The Raw rating and if they end up promoting anything serious for NXT on it might make that either more a sure thing or a "nah," but I'm thinking NXT is about to get a bit more steam.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb with a wild prediction: I've called the ratings the past two weeks as an AEW victory. After the Rumble and the buzz around Keith Lee and Matt Riddle's Brock interaction, I think the ratings are going to be within reach this week. Especially after the shitty boat party taped show.
> 
> The Raw rating and if they end up promoting anything serious for NXT on it might make that either more a sure thing or a "nah," but I'm thinking NXT is about to get a bit more steam.


A taped show dat outdrew a go home pay per view show.

they aint getting new audiences from that method. And its already too late since AEW got their 4 year extension. What ya counter programming for? counter programming was about taking them out of business, network sees money in them now. Its over.


----------



## bdon

“Brock putting guys over was all part of the original plans and had nothing to do with AEW.”


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> A taped show dat outdrew a go home pay per view show.
> 
> they aint getting new audiences from that method. And its already too late since AEW got their 4 year extension. What ya counter programming for? counter programming was about taking them out of business, network sees money in them now. Its over.


They didn't have a PPV. Wtf are you talking about? 

No, they will get new audiences from having guys like Keith Lee tackle the fuck out of Brock Lesnar. Those audiences, the new audiences, aren't going to be preoccupied by an anti-WWE bias, which is the best advantage AEW has going for them. 



bdon said:


> “Brock putting guys over was all part of the original plans and had nothing to do with AEW.”


Who are you quoting? I don't know when the call to put Brock in a Royal Rumble was, but they have NXT people every year, don't they? That is a bizarre stance to take.


----------



## Cult03

Everything WWE do well is going to be because of AEW now, right? Just give credit where credit is due for fucks sake. Keith Lee was a universal meme a few weeks ago, that's why he was in the Rumble. Because he's over.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb with a wild prediction: I've called the ratings the past two weeks as an AEW victory. After the Rumble and the buzz around Keith Lee and Matt Riddle's Brock interaction, I think the ratings are going to be within reach this week. Especially after the shitty boat party taped show.
> 
> The Raw rating and if they end up promoting anything serious for NXT on it might make that either more a sure thing or a "nah," but I'm thinking NXT is about to get a bit more steam.


I thought you didn't watch the cruise show? 

And, I am sorry to say this, but except the male's rumble (which was predictable and okay) and Becky Lynch vs Asuka, this RR was not a great show as you pretend it is (I don't say it is a bad show neither, but definitely not a good one). 

Therefore I gonna repeat myself, NXT can't win this fight, because Vince will never consider NXT as the third WWE brand. If the names you quote above, are supposed to be bankable for a 2min appearance at the Rumble, then they will go to Raw or SD!


----------



## Cult03

French Connection said:


> I thought you didn't watch the cruise show?
> 
> And, I am sorry to say this, but except the male's rumble (which was predictable and okay) and Becky Lynch vs Asuka, this RR was not a great show as you pretend it is (I don't say it is a bad show neither, but definitely not a good one).
> 
> Therefore I gonna repeat myself, NXT can't win this fight, because Vince will never consider NXT as the third WWE brand. If the names you quote above, are supposed to be bankable for a 2min appearance at the Rumble, then they will go to Raw or SD!


I'm actually seeing a lot of people outside this WF bubble claiming it was one of the best PPV's of the decade. This forum isn't indicative of the worlds opinion at all


----------



## The Wood

French Connection said:


> I thought you didn't watch the cruise show?
> 
> And, I am sorry to say this, but except the male's rumble (which was predictable and okay) and Becky Lynch vs Asuka, this RR was not a great show as you pretend it is (I don't say it is a bad show neither, but definitely not a good one).
> 
> Therefore I gonna repeat myself, NXT can't win this fight, because Vince will never consider NXT as the third WWE brand. If the names you quote above, are supposed to be bankable for a 2min appearance at the Rumble, then they will go to Raw or SD!


The men's Rumble is the story of the show. I think I've been misunderstood -- I didn't like the whole PPV. I think the women look like shit when they are trying to work in a Rumble match. I get what they think they're doing, but it's counterproductive in my opinion. I didn't even really like Becky vs. Asuka. But that actual Rumble Match was fucking amazing. 

Predictable? Didn't people think Roman Reigns was going to win? I mean, that's what the betting said. Did anyone call Brock being _that_ awesome? Edge coming back, if you are not a dirt sheet reader, was _not_ predictable. The dude literally retired nine years ago because he couldn't wrestle anymore. If people didn't get the photos, would anyone have called MVP in the Rumble? And all of this is besides the point, because something doesn't need to be unpredictable in order to be good. 

NXT _can't_ win this fight? There's no way that NXT can't heat up and become a hot brand on par with Raw and SmackDown? They couldn't, say, send Brock Lesnar there to go and fight Matt Riddle? Or put Daniel Bryan there to reclaim his spark? Or have The Revival work with Rey Mysterio and Cain Velasquez to put some star tag teams together in front of that crowd? They couldn't possibly, feasibly send Charlotte Flair to NXT because she wants to fight Rhea Ripley? They absolutely _can't_ do that, right? Just like they can't have Keith Lee impress Brock Lesnar and knock him flat on his ass. Or they can't have NXT win the Survivor Series. 

I'm not saying all or any of this stuff will happen, but it's just ridiculous to say it _can't_ happen. Vince likes money. NXT exists under his banner and on his watch with his blessing. He wants it to be worth a shit-load of money in two years when that TV deal is up and they get the chance to make the HUGE rights fees that AEW didn't. 

Vince doesn't like losing, so if NXT doesn't start to overtake AEW with its consistency and logical content, they will spike it. They probably already have a few yellow envelopes with ideas in them. I just don't get this mentality that they _can't_ beat a show with two main eventers on it that very often (usually?) doesn't explain why anything is happening.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> The men's Rumble is the story of the show. I think I've been misunderstood -- I didn't like the whole PPV. I think the women look like shit when they are trying to work in a Rumble match. I get what they think they're doing, but it's counterproductive in my opinion. I didn't even really like Becky vs. Asuka. But that actual Rumble Match was fucking amazing.
> 
> Predictable? Didn't people think Roman Reigns was going to win? I mean, that's what the betting said. Did anyone call Brock being _that_ awesome? Edge coming back, if you are not a dirt sheet reader, was _not_ predictable. The dude literally retired nine years ago because he couldn't wrestle anymore. If people didn't get the photos, would anyone have called MVP in the Rumble? And all of this is besides the point, because something doesn't need to be unpredictable in order to be good.
> 
> NXT _can't_ win this fight? There's no way that NXT can't heat up and become a hot brand on par with Raw and SmackDown? They couldn't, say, send Brock Lesnar there to go and fight Matt Riddle? Or put Daniel Bryan there to reclaim his spark? Or have The Revival work with Rey Mysterio and Cain Velasquez to put some star tag teams together in front of that crowd? They couldn't possibly, feasibly send Charlotte Flair to NXT because she wants to fight Rhea Ripley? They absolutely _can't_ do that, right? Just like they can't have Keith Lee impress Brock Lesnar and knock him flat on his ass. Or they can't have NXT win the Survivor Series.
> 
> I'm not saying all or any of this stuff will happen, but it's just ridiculous to say it _can't_ happen. Vince likes money. NXT exists under his banner and on his watch with his blessing. He wants it to be worth a shit-load of money in two years when that TV deal is up and they get the chance to make the HUGE rights fees that AEW didn't.
> 
> Vince doesn't like losing, so if NXT doesn't start to overtake AEW with its consistency and logical content, they will spike it. They probably already have a few yellow envelopes with ideas in them. I just don't get this mentality that they _can't_ beat a show with two main eventers on it that very often (usually?) doesn't explain why anything is happening.


Regarding the Rumble, I agreed with you when so many people complained about the Lesnar domination, while I was having a good time personally too. And I had a good time watching the main event, but I was pretty sure Reign will not win, especially after how they set up the feud between McIntyre and Brock. 
I had a good time watching the Becky Lynch fight, but the rest of the cards was boring for me. 

You can disagree on my point claiming AEW can't fight against AEW because they are considered as a B-Show and not a 3rd brand. 
But I don't find the logic in yours neither. Both guys you quoted stayed maybe 2 minutes on the ring each, and Lesnar had the last word... How can you assume the NXT ratings gonna increase just like this?

As you said, Vince loves money. SD and Raw are $500 Millions dollars while NXT is $30 Millions. How do you think they will put their talents over their top talents on a regular basis? It makes no sense.


----------



## The Wood

French Connection said:


> Regarding the Rumble, I agreed with you when so many people complained about the Lesnar domination, while I was having a good time personally too. And I had a good time watching the main event, but I was pretty sure Reign will not win, especially after how they set up the feud between McIntyre and Brock.
> I had a good time watching the Becky Lynch fight, but the rest of the cards was boring for me.
> 
> You can disagree on my point claiming AEW can't fight against AEW because they are considered as a B-Show and not a 3rd brand.
> But I don't find the logic in yours neither. Both guys you quoted stayed maybe 2 minutes on the ring each, and Lesnar had the last word... How can you assume the NXT ratings gonna increase just like this?
> 
> As you said, Vince loves money. SD and Raw are $500 Millions dollars while NXT is $30 Millions. How do you think they will put their talents over their top talents on a regular basis? It makes no sense.


I don't think you really need more than 2 minutes when what you're doing is effective. Brock selling Lee's presence and being handed his ass by Lee off a tackle did more for that guy than anything else in his career. He just had the best night of his life. I guarantee there are people who have never seen Lee before seeing that and thinking "who the fuck is that?!?" in a good way. 

I don't know if they need to do it on a regular basis. And there's nothing that excludes someone like, say, a Brock Lesnar or Daniel Bryan working both NXT and a main roster show. If they want to boost it, they'll boost it.


----------



## imthegame19

K4L318 said:


> A taped show dat outdrew a go home pay per view show.
> 
> they aint getting new audiences from that method. And its already too late since AEW got their 4 year extension. What ya counter programming for? counter programming was about taking them out of business, network sees money in them now. Its over.


If USA was smart they would just move NXT to Tuesday now. That way it would give both shows to get over 1 million viewers consistently. AEW already got their tv deal and money. That said I'm sure it's gonna take AEW going over 1 million a week for a few months and NXT falling to 500-600 range for Vince to finally agree to admit defeat with a move to Tuesdays.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Guys, please let me know when NXT Uk is on.

i want to make sure I’m prepared for the ‘it was always on day xxxx’ when inevitably moves to counter-program DARK

or maybe 205 live?


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> If USA was smart they would just move NXT to Tuesday now. That way it would give both shows to get over 1 million viewers consistently. AEW already got their tv deal and money. That said I'm sure it's gonna take AEW going over 1 million a week for a few months and NXT falling to 500-600 range for Vince to finally agree to admit defeat with a move to Tuesdays.


Why would Vince do that? Sure, AEW would love it if they went unopposed, but that could help their rating go up slightly, and they can try and milk that for more money from TNT and become more viable, which gives certain talent more leverage. That's how Vince loses.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Guys, please let me know when NXT Uk is on.
> 
> i want to make sure I’m prepared for the ‘it was always on day xxxx’ when inevitably moves to counter-program DARK
> 
> or maybe 205 live?


Thursdays


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Why would Vince do that? Sure, AEW would love it if they went unopposed, but that could help their rating go up slightly, and they can try and milk that for more money from TNT and become more viable, which gives certain talent more leverage. That's how Vince loses.


cuz ya aint gaining nothing. It was opposed to prevent extension, it didnt prevent extension, now there is another TV slot they extended to. NXT's audience is in the 50 and over.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I don't think you really need more than 2 minutes when what you're doing is effective. Brock selling Lee's presence and being handed his ass by Lee off a tackle did more for that guy than anything else in his career. He just had the best night of his life. I guarantee there are people who have never seen Lee before seeing that and thinking "who the fuck is that?!?" in a good way.
> 
> I don't know if they need to do it on a regular basis. And there's nothing that excludes someone like, say, a Brock Lesnar or Daniel Bryan working both NXT and a main roster show. If they want to boost it, they'll boost it.


Yeah, hotshotting has worked so well for nxt..


----------



## Pippen94

imthegame19 said:


> If USA was smart they would just move NXT to Tuesday now. That way it would give both shows to get over 1 million viewers consistently. AEW already got their tv deal and money. That said I'm sure it's gonna take AEW going over 1 million a week for a few months and NXT falling to 500-600 range for Vince to finally agree to admit defeat with a move to Tuesdays.


Wwe don't care about nxt ratings. Program simply put in place to hurt aew. The fact aew got TV deal means approach has failed.


----------



## imthegame19

Pippen94 said:


> Wwe don't care about nxt ratings. Program simply put in place to hurt aew. The fact aew got TV deal means approach has failed.


USA cares though. NXT is doing worse ratings then what USA had on previously.


----------



## K4L318

Pippen94 said:


> Wwe don't care about nxt ratings. Program simply put in place to hurt aew. The fact aew got TV deal means approach has failed.


only smart peeps know this.but USA do care and would move them. And Vince cant save dat cuz they own it. 

The goal of NXT was to take them out of da biz. Dont create another landing spot for future talent. They created a 4 year landing spot. Now guy from indie can jump on TV and sell their brand.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> I don't think you really need more than 2 minutes when what you're doing is effective. Brock selling Lee's presence and being handed his ass by Lee off a tackle did more for that guy than anything else in his career. He just had the best night of his life. I guarantee there are people who have never seen Lee before seeing that and thinking "who the fuck is that?!?" in a good way.
> 
> I don't know if they need to do it on a regular basis. And there's nothing that excludes someone like, say, a Brock Lesnar or Daniel Bryan working both NXT and a main roster show. If they want to boost it, they'll boost it.


I think I got your point. 
You meant a part of the SD and Raw audiences tuning to NXT just to watch these dudes. 
I still think it will be a flash in pan at best.
I mean WWE put NXT over last Survivor Series, and the yellow brand just went over AEW for few weeks, and it is now back behind.

Do not get me wrong, I am not claiming NXT is bad, it is just considered as a bush league by the WWE itself. 
The 2 other major brands have to shine, at least to justify the investment made by USA and Fox, while NXT is here just to avoid AEW to gain more viewers.

Then I am sure a guy like Lesnar will decline appearing on NXT (especially with his specific contract). And guys like Bryan or AJ are not the same draw to insure NXT to get over AEW (especially if it is just a one off).


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Looking forward to Dynamite beating NXT this week!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Looking forward to Dynamite beating NXT this week!


Rap is solid though

we don’t always agree, but the lad is proper IMO


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rap is solid though
> 
> we don’t always agree, but the lad is proper IMO


yeab I was laughing more about wood. Guy doesn’t even watch the product lmao. What a waste of time


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> yeab I was laughing more about wood. Guy doesn’t even watch the product lmao. What a waste of time


it would be like me commenting for hours on ‘Britain’s Got Talent’ - when i’ve never watched 5 min / or just some youtube clips and read the Monday reviews

madness


----------



## Taroostyles

Cult03 said:


> I'm actually seeing a lot of people outside this WF bubble claiming it was one of the best PPV's of the decade. This forum isn't indicative of the worlds opinion at all


Well the decade just started so that's not really saying much. But that aside, anyone who claims that was some type of all time great show has either extremely low standards or hasn't seen many great show to compare to.

It had a couple of pretty good matches and 1/2 of a great Rumble. Let's get real. It was cool that Drew won and Edge came back, but that does alone not make it a classic show.


----------



## MrThortan

Rumble was a mixed bag in my opinion, but it was enough to get me to watch Raw tonight. It wasn't enough to get me to watch NXT though. WWE basically has a PPV every month, which will likely bump their viewership. Fortunately, AEW doesn't have to compete with Raw or Smackdown.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> cuz ya aint gaining nothing. It was opposed to prevent extension, it didnt prevent extension, now there is another TV slot they extended to. NXT's audience is in the 50 and over.


This is a Meltzer myth. From the start he has been trying to set up low standards for AEW to smash. Tony Khan is friends with the guys at TNT and they had a two-year deal in place anyway. Meltzer says that it was supposed to prevent extension because that gives him a chance to say things like "Vince failed" and "AEW won the game." 

WWE didn't even have to do anything to stop guys like CM Punk and Randy Orton, who were curious about going, from going and running opposition to him. Yes, there is a place for disgruntled talent to go, but they are seen by 900k people on an amateurish show that is barely making a profit. 

A lot of younger NXT viewers almost definitely watch on the WWE Network, because no one wants to watch four hours of wrestling on a Wednesday night so they split it up. Is there any good reason to think that these apparently "hip, young" guys who watch AEW on a Wednesday have absolutely no interest in NXT at all? Apply some thinking. 



Pippen94 said:


> Yeah, hotshotting has worked so well for nxt..


NXT has not hot-shot shit. Do you know what hot-shotting means? And hot-shotting itself is not inherently bad. It's making that the norm and not being able to keep that level of stimulus up and then the hot-shotting itself losing effect.

When NXT got involved with Raw and SmackDown and Raw and SmackDown got involved with NXT, NXT started beating AEW every week. And yes, they would have been beating them, because the ratings are determined by extrapolating information from a select sample, and a difference of an estimated 5k people is a fucking wash. Consider that NXT would get a lot of viewers from the Network and yes, they were the more popular brand if you wanted to simply talk about the number of eyeballs on the screen. I don't know how anyone could dispute that. It would be excellent if WWE released the numbers so we don't have to speculate, but why doesn't it make sense? 

But yeah, I'd like to hear one thing that NXT has hot-shotted since they've been on USA. One thing. 



imthegame19 said:


> USA cares though. NXT is doing worse ratings then what USA had on previously.


Their relationship with WWE is also very important to them. They also probably understand, at least through liaison with WWE, that they were never going to beat the new car smell of something different that does have a few big stars for a few months. If WWE intends to build the brand, it will be a marathon and not a sprint. 



K4L318 said:


> only smart peeps know this.but USA do care and would move them. And Vince cant save dat cuz they own it.
> 
> The goal of NXT was to take them out of da biz. Dont create another landing spot for future talent. They created a 4 year landing spot. Now guy from indie can jump on TV and sell their brand.


No, the goal was not to take them out of the biz. Where has the WWE gotten so many of its most valued talent over the past decade? The independent scene. Yeah, they train their own guys too, but they don't mind having talent that has worked elsewhere. AEW providing a "landing spot" is not an issue. It's an extension of developmental. Do you think they'll be mad if they get MJF and/or Sammy Guevara in a few years and they just need to polish up a few things? No. 

Vince McMahon and WWE are not worried about a show that draws 900k and is barely profitable. Especially when all the top stars are still signing with WWE. 



French Connection said:


> I think I got your point.
> You meant a part of the SD and Raw audiences tuning to NXT just to watch these dudes.
> I still think it will be a flash in pan at best.
> I mean WWE put NXT over last Survivor Series, and the yellow brand just went over AEW for few weeks, and it is now back behind.
> 
> Do not get me wrong, I am not claiming NXT is bad, it is just considered as a bush league by the WWE itself.
> The 2 other major brands have to shine, at least to justify the investment made by USA and Fox, while NXT is here just to avoid AEW to gain more viewers.
> 
> Then I am sure a guy like Lesnar will decline appearing on NXT (especially with his specific contract). And guys like Bryan or AJ are not the same draw to insure NXT to get over AEW (especially if it is just a one off).


Well, a part of Raw and SmackDown audiences, but also lapsed WWE fans (more so than lapsed wrestling fans) who are curious to see guys they once cared about in a different environment that isn't WWE. 

And your opinion on the matter is fair. But guys like Orton and Punk are stars, and I think people underestimate just how much WWE capped a lot of their ability to draw. 

WWE hasn't gone as hard with NXT as people think. Pulling back and being careful with exposure is a smart strategy. I'm not sure Brock would turn down appearing on NXT. I mean, I'm not saying that would be the goal anyway, but he did just work with Keith Lee and made him look _amazing_. Brock nixes ideas like selling for Shane's punches and working with an obnoxious Dean Ambrose, but he doesn't really care if he gets kicked in the nuts by a Ricochet. He's Brock fucking Lesnar. 

And I think I just disagree that putting amazing overall workers on a consistent as fuck wrestling show with logic wouldn't be enough to turn the tables eventually. I guess we'd need to see it for me to be proven right or wrong on that. 



optikk sucks said:


> Looking forward to Dynamite beating NXT this week!


Yes, how dare people post on a wrestling forum! Grr. 



optikk sucks said:


> yeab I was laughing more about wood. Guy doesn’t even watch the product lmao. What a waste of time


I follow the product. I watched two weeks ago. Don't tell others how to spend their time. Some might consider wasting two hours of your time on Dynamite a waste. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> it would be like me commenting for hours on ‘Britain’s Got Talent’ - when i’ve never watched 5 min / or just some youtube clips and read the Monday reviews
> 
> madness


What's wrong with commenting on things if you've got opinions and thoughts on them. People have reasons for not watching things too. 



Taroostyles said:


> Well the decade just started so that's not really saying much. But that aside, anyone who claims that was some type of all time great show has either extremely low standards or hasn't seen many great show to compare to.
> 
> It had a couple of pretty good matches and 1/2 of a great Rumble. Let's get real. It was cool that Drew won and Edge came back, but that does alone not make it a classic show.


I didn't like the whole show, but you are doing a major disservice to that Rumble. Brock was fucking _excellent_. The whole thing was brilliant structured. Easily one of the best Rumbles ever. I can make a case for it being #1 or #2, but it would definitely be top five.


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> Looking forward to Dynamite beating NXT this week!


Lol just sad and pathetic. Especially when majority of the forum can't stand him.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Wwe don't care about nxt ratings. Program simply put in place to hurt aew. The fact aew got TV deal means approach has failed.


AEW and their fans have the weirdest victim mentality. "We are going to challenge WWE", gets challenged "How dare they?!"

Shut up you pansies. AEW made the challenge first. Did anyone expect WWE to sit back and allow it when AEW was being so aggressive?


----------



## Cult03

Taroostyles said:


> Well the decade just started so that's not really saying much. But that aside, anyone who claims that was some type of all time great show has either extremely low standards or hasn't seen many great show to compare to.
> 
> It had a couple of pretty good matches and 1/2 of a great Rumble. Let's get real. It was cool that Drew won and Edge came back, but that does alone not make it a classic show.


A decade is a period of ten years. Doesn't have to start at 00.

I agree though, apart from the Rumble I wouldn't say it is either. But plenty of people have been. Especially in regards to their own excitement.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> AEW and their fans have the weirdest victim mentality. "We are going to challenge WWE", gets challenged "How dare they?!"
> 
> Shut up you pansies. AEW made the challenge first. Did anyone expect WWE to sit back and allow it when AEW was being so aggressive?


What?? Didn't offer an opinion on merits of wwe actions. You need to chill!


----------



## French Connection

Cult03 said:


> AEW and their fans have the weirdest victim mentality. "We are going to challenge WWE", gets challenged "How dare they?!"
> 
> Shut up you pansies. AEW made the challenge first. Did anyone expect WWE to sit back and allow it when *AEW was being so aggressive*?


Wow, if you consider this as aggressive, I wonder who have a weird victim mentality...


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This is a Meltzer myth. From the start he has been trying to set up low standards for AEW to smash. Tony Khan is friends with the guys at TNT and they had a two-year deal in place anyway. Meltzer says that it was supposed to prevent extension because that gives him a chance to say things like "Vince failed" and "AEW won the game."
> 
> WWE didn't even have to do anything to stop guys like CM Punk and Randy Orton, who were curious about going, from going and running opposition to him. Yes, there is a place for disgruntled talent to go, but they are seen by 900k people on an amateurish show that is barely making a profit.
> 
> A lot of younger NXT viewers almost definitely watch on the WWE Network, because no one wants to watch four hours of wrestling on a Wednesday night so they split it up. Is there any good reason to think that these apparently "hip, young" guys who watch AEW on a Wednesday have absolutely no interest in NXT at all? Apply some thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> NXT has not hot-shot shit. Do you know what hot-shotting means? And hot-shotting itself is not inherently bad. It's making that the norm and not being able to keep that level of stimulus up and then the hot-shotting itself losing effect.
> 
> When NXT got involved with Raw and SmackDown and Raw and SmackDown got involved with NXT, NXT started beating AEW every week. And yes, they would have been beating them, because the ratings are determined by extrapolating information from a select sample, and a difference of an estimated 5k people is a fucking wash. Consider that NXT would get a lot of viewers from the Network and yes, they were the more popular brand if you wanted to simply talk about the number of eyeballs on the screen. I don't know how anyone could dispute that. It would be excellent if WWE released the numbers so we don't have to speculate, but why doesn't it make sense?
> 
> But yeah, I'd like to hear one thing that NXT has hot-shotted since they've been on USA. One thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Their relationship with WWE is also very important to them. They also probably understand, at least through liaison with WWE, that they were never going to beat the new car smell of something different that does have a few big stars for a few months. If WWE intends to build the brand, it will be a marathon and not a sprint.
> 
> 
> 
> No, the goal was not to take them out of the biz. Where has the WWE gotten so many of its most valued talent over the past decade? The independent scene. Yeah, they train their own guys too, but they don't mind having talent that has worked elsewhere. AEW providing a "landing spot" is not an issue. It's an extension of developmental. Do you think they'll be mad if they get MJF and/or Sammy Guevara in a few years and they just need to polish up a few things? No.
> 
> Vince McMahon and WWE are not worried about a show that draws 900k and is barely profitable. Especially when all the top stars are still signing with WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, a part of Raw and SmackDown audiences, but also lapsed WWE fans (more so than lapsed wrestling fans) who are curious to see guys they once cared about in a different environment that isn't WWE.
> 
> And your opinion on the matter is fair. But guys like Orton and Punk are stars, and I think people underestimate just how much WWE capped a lot of their ability to draw.
> 
> WWE hasn't gone as hard with NXT as people think. Pulling back and being careful with exposure is a smart strategy. I'm not sure Brock would turn down appearing on NXT. I mean, I'm not saying that would be the goal anyway, but he did just work with Keith Lee and made him look _amazing_. Brock nixes ideas like selling for Shane's punches and working with an obnoxious Dean Ambrose, but he doesn't really care if he gets kicked in the nuts by a Ricochet. He's Brock fucking Lesnar.
> 
> And I think I just disagree that putting amazing overall workers on a consistent as fuck wrestling show with logic wouldn't be enough to turn the tables eventually. I guess we'd need to see it for me to be proven right or wrong on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how dare people post on a wrestling forum! Grr.
> 
> 
> 
> I follow the product. I watched two weeks ago. Don't tell others how to spend their time. Some might consider wasting two hours of your time on Dynamite a waste.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with commenting on things if you've got opinions and thoughts on them. People have reasons for not watching things too.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like the whole show, but you are doing a major disservice to that Rumble. Brock was fucking _excellent_. The whole thing was brilliant structured. Easily one of the best Rumbles ever. I can make a case for it being #1 or #2, but it would definitely be top five.


Whole survivor series build was hotshotting with appearances & matches from top stars. Whole thing was unsustainable & has seen interest dip since.


----------



## Cult03

French Connection said:


> Wow, if you consider this as aggressive, I wonder who have a weird victim mentality...


Well they certainly weren't being passive aggressive. Do I need to talk to you about how the English language works?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Whole survivor series build was hotshotting with appearances & matches from top stars. Whole thing was unsustainable & has seen interest dip since.


Having NXT talent appear on Raw and SmackDown is not hot-shotting.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> No, the goal was not to take them out of the biz. Where has the WWE gotten so many of its most valued talent over the past decade? The independent scene. Yeah, they train their own guys too, but they don't mind having talent that has worked elsewhere. AEW providing a "landing spot" is not an issue. It's an extension of developmental. Do you think they'll be mad if they get MJF and/or Sammy Guevara in a few years and they just need to polish up a few things? No.
> 
> Vince McMahon and WWE are not worried about a show that draws 900k and is barely profitable. Especially when all the top stars are still signing with WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how dare people post on a wrestling forum! Grr.
> 
> 
> 
> I follow the product. I watched two weeks ago. Don't tell others how to spend their time. Some might consider wasting two hours of your time on Dynamite a waste.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with commenting on things if you've got opinions and thoughts on them. People have reasons for not watching things too.


you a clown bruh.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

That's impressive considering many on here have Wood on ignore. I would say most of that 800 came as arguments split between Garty and Ghostface (before his ban).


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Having NXT talent appear on Raw and SmackDown is not hot-shotting.


 yeah it is - so is having Becky Lynch opening show & wrestling a match and then Seth Rollins running in at end


----------



## K4L318

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> That's impressive considering many on here have Wood on ignore. I would say most of that 800 came as arguments split between Garty and Ghostface (before his ban).


I been here a bit and I know his gimmick. He The Miz of this forum.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> you a clown bruh.
> 
> View attachment 82376


How dare I post in a wrestling forum? What sort of stance is this? A few people seem to be taking it. Is this another version of "it's just silly wrestling" perspective? 



Pippen94 said:


> yeah it is - so is having Becky Lynch opening show & wrestling a match and then Seth Rollins running in at end


What exactly do you think hot-shotting is? I'd like to hear you describe it.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> How dare I post in a wrestling forum? What sort of stance is this? A few people seem to be taking it. Is this another version of "it's just silly wrestling" perspective?
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly do you think hot-shotting is? I'd like to hear you describe it.


I would but you'd purposely misunderstand it, troll - kinda what you're doing now


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> I would but you'd purposely misunderstand it, troll - kinda what you're doing now


But if you explained it then other people would see what you mean. I ask because I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> But if you explained it then other people would see what you mean. I ask because I don't think it means what you think it means.


Go to Wikipedia page of wrestling terms. review definition of hotshotting. compare to my example from this thread. If different post message stating why. If not bugger off


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Go to Wikipedia page of wrestling terms. review definition of hotshotting. compare to my example from this thread. If different post message stating why. If not bugger off


The terms on those page are largely misunderstood and have a lot wrong about that. Your idea that you should trust this page is misguided. The hot-shotting one isn't too bad. I think your mistake is in thinking that hot-shotting is inherently bad and that your examples are hot-shotting even qualify.

If they were swapping off the top titles and blowing off the heat of their heels and turning guys every week, then yes, I think you'd have a point. Becky Lynch appearing on the fucking show? No. Chris Jericho appearing on Dynamite isn't hot-shotting, lol. If you wanted to call it hot-shotting, which does have a negative connotation, you could argue that it's a positive form of hot-shotting, but it's really just fucking promoting.

You can have an argument on the semantics of the NXT/Raw/SmackDown feud as being relatively rushed and designed to hot-shot NXT (again, in a positive way), but they actually didn't give away much for free at all. The Revival vs. Undisputed Era was a heel match. Most of the big matches happened on PPV and the stuff they gave away for free aren't things they were going to do on PPV anyway. 

They've only just gone to Shayna vs. Rhea Ripley. They still haven't done Balor vs. Gargano or Cole vs. Ciampa. They are building those and saving them. If you wanted to use hot-shotting positively, then yes, they did use some big stars on their show for a few weeks, lol. They pulled right back so it didn't wear thin. But we've seen surprisingly few angles on NXT, especially compared to AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> The terms on those page are largely misunderstood and have a lot wrong about that. Your idea that you should trust this page is misguided. The hot-shotting one isn't too bad. I think your mistake is in thinking that hot-shotting is inherently bad and that your examples are hot-shotting even qualify.
> 
> If they were swapping off the top titles and blowing off the heat of their heels and turning guys every week, then yes, I think you'd have a point. Becky Lynch appearing on the fucking show? No. Chris Jericho appearing on Dynamite isn't hot-shotting, lol. If you wanted to call it hot-shotting, which does have a negative connotation, you could argue that it's a positive form of hot-shotting, but it's really just fucking promoting.
> 
> You can have an argument on the semantics of the NXT/Raw/SmackDown feud as being relatively rushed and designed to hot-shot NXT (again, in a positive way), but they actually didn't give away much for free at all. The Revival vs. Undisputed Era was a heel match. Most of the big matches happened on PPV and the stuff they gave away for free aren't things they were going to do on PPV anyway.
> 
> They've only just gone to Shayna vs. Rhea Ripley. They still haven't done Balor vs. Gargano or Cole vs. Ciampa. They are building those and saving them. If you wanted to use hot-shotting positively, then yes, they did use some big stars on their show for a few weeks, lol. They pulled right back so it didn't wear thin. But we've seen surprisingly few angles on NXT, especially compared to AEW.


Thanks for the essay. I reckon I can do a better job in much fewer words; Hotshotting is attempt to pop market by running major match, angle or stacked event. Often this is so big whatever follows pales & sees a drop in business. A prime example was nxt invasion in lead up to survivor series which saw top stars on nxt & built to ppv matches. Once over there was no way of matching excitement & ratings fell.
Jericho comparison is wrong. Jericho appears on dynamite every week - its sustainable. How often does nxt feature the top main roster male & female faces? Has that even happen before?


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> How dare I post in a wrestling forum? What sort of stance is this? A few people seem to be taking it. Is this another version of "it's just silly wrestling" perspective?


bruh ya aint posting nothing. Everything has been negative. Ya a troll who has made it a daily activity to troll a message board where ya aint contributing nothing but baseless opinions and disputes.

really I am shocked mods let ya get away wit it.


----------



## fabi1982

imthegame19 said:


> Lol just sad and pathetic. Especially when majority of the forum can't stand him.


I count around 10 people, so you say this forum has less than 20 members? Just look at the rants thread by farty, most of the people like him or at least not dislike him. Get your facts straight.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> The terms on those page are largely misunderstood and have a lot wrong about that. Your idea that you should trust this page is misguided. The hot-shotting one isn't too bad. I think your mistake is in thinking that hot-shotting is inherently bad and that your examples are hot-shotting even qualify.
> 
> If they were swapping off the top titles and blowing off the heat of their heels and turning guys every week, then yes, I think you'd have a point. Becky Lynch appearing on the fucking show? No. Chris Jericho appearing on Dynamite isn't hot-shotting, lol. If you wanted to call it hot-shotting, which does have a negative connotation, you could argue that it's a positive form of hot-shotting, but it's really just fucking promoting.
> 
> You can have an argument on the semantics of the NXT/Raw/SmackDown feud as being relatively rushed and designed to hot-shot NXT (again, in a positive way), but they actually didn't give away much for free at all. The Revival vs. Undisputed Era was a heel match. Most of the big matches happened on PPV and the stuff they gave away for free aren't things they were going to do on PPV anyway.
> 
> They've only just gone to Shayna vs. Rhea Ripley. They still haven't done Balor vs. Gargano or Cole vs. Ciampa. They are building those and saving them. If you wanted to use hot-shotting positively, then yes, they did use some big stars on their show for a few weeks, lol. They pulled right back so it didn't wear thin. But we've seen surprisingly few angles on NXT, especially compared to AEW.


It is bad. Hot shotting is going wit a hot hand and being left wit a mess. 

Becky appearing in NXT hot shotted Rhea. Chris Jericho is a brand that TNT wants as the poster boy to Dynamite. 

They gave everything away. Revival and Undisputed flopped. NXT's last PPV attendance was horrendous. 

Shayna and Ripley hot shotted the title on to Rhea via Becky Lynch. Balor and Gargano are squares. Cole isn't a big star, Ciampa can barely stay healthy. 

NXT has little to no angles since Velveteen was hurt.


----------



## Garty

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> That's impressive considering many on here have Wood on ignore. I would say most of that 800 came as arguments split between Garty and Ghostface (before his ban).


I think you need to look a little more into his posting habits then. 

There is no other user here, that, God forbid, has a difference of opinion, that he won't quote and reply to you, with a 5000 word essay, for hours on end, telling you that you're stupid. The guy just can't stop himself. He always has to have the last word. His opinion is always right. He always has "facts", to back up any and all criticism that comes his way, regarding said opinions. He's a liar, a hypocrite and a fucking hack. I think the people that have him on ignore, only do so because of what he does (spamming, flaming, enticing, reinforcing, belittling, hijacking) not really because of what he says (albeit that is a factor for sure). Of course he would then say that he's, "one thee internettz" because they cannot dispute me and my facts". I have asked this question, as well as someone in this thread (or other thread), of what his end-game to all of this is. What does he get out of it, other than another stroke of his obvious massive ego?

Unfortunately, he's not going to go away any time soon and so far, the Admins or Mods, have been of little, to no help at all. No warnings. No talks. No bans. No vacations. No exclusions. Nothing. If he's gotten this far, trashing a company (and it's fans) that he doesn't watch or doesn't like (but sure has a lot to say about it) without impunity for this long, then there's nothing that's going to stop him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> I think you need to look a little more into his posting habits then.
> 
> There is no other user here, that, God forbid, has a difference of opinion, that he won't quote and reply to you, with a 5000 word essay, for hours on end, telling you that you're stupid. _*The guy just can't stop himself. He always has to have the last word. His opinion is always right. He always has "facts",*_ to back up any and all criticism that comes his way, regarding said opinions. He's a liar, a hypocrite and a fucking hack. I think the people that have him on ignore, only do so because of what he does (spamming, flaming, enticing, reinforcing, belittling, hijacking) not really because of what he says (albeit that is a factor for sure). Of course he would then say that he's, "one thee internettz" because they cannot dispute me and my facts". I have asked this question, as well as someone in this thread (or other thread), of what his end-game to all of this is. What does he get out of it, other than another stroke of his obvious massive ego?
> 
> Unfortunately, he's not going to go away any time soon and so far, the Admins or Mods, have been of little, to no help at all. No warnings. No talks. No bans. No vacations. No exclusions. Nothing. If he's gotten this far, trashing a company (and it's fans) that he doesn't watch or doesn't like (but sure has a lot to say about it) without impunity for this long, then there's nothing that's going to stop him.


my strategy these days in Order to have fun is take him off ignore, post a random reply or two and then put him back

knowing he’ll type essays I’ll never read


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> my strategy these days in Order to have fun is take him off ignore, post a random reply or two and then put him back
> 
> knowing he’ll type essays I’ll never read





LifeInCattleClass said:


> my strategy these days in Order to have fun is take him off ignore, post a random reply or two and then put him back
> 
> knowing he’ll type essays I’ll never read





Garty said:


> I think you need to look a little more into his posting habits then.
> 
> There is no other user here, that, God forbid, has a difference of opinion, that he won't quote and reply to you, with a 5000 word essay, for hours on end, telling you that you're stupid. The guy just can't stop himself. He always has to have the last word. His opinion is always right. He always has "facts", to back up any and all criticism that comes his way, regarding said opinions. He's a liar, a hypocrite and a fucking hack. I think the people that have him on ignore, only do so because of what he does (spamming, flaming, enticing, reinforcing, belittling, hijacking) not really because of what he says (albeit that is a factor for sure). Of course he would then say that he's, "one thee internettz" because they cannot dispute me and my facts". I have asked this question, as well as someone in this thread (or other thread), of what his end-game to all of this is. What does he get out of it, other than another stroke of his obvious massive ego?
> 
> Unfortunately, he's not going to go away any time soon and so far, the Admins or Mods, have been of little, to no help at all. No warnings. No talks. No bans. No vacations. No exclusions. Nothing. If he's gotten this far, trashing a company (and it's fans) that he doesn't watch or doesn't like (but sure has a lot to say about it) without impunity for this long, then there's nothing that's going to stop him.












Somebody who doesn't even watch the show has the most amount of posts for the show's forum. WHAT THE FUCK LOL


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

let's do some steiner math as well

Iff he has a normal typing speed of 40 WPM.
Let's consider his normal post between 400-500 words
Let's factor in thinking as well
Surely he's spending about 10-15 minutes per post.
Now multiply that by his number of posts


That's between 7530 and 11295 minutes
In hours, that's 125.5h and 188.25h
Approximately 5-8 days worth of typing and trolling in a month that's not even over.

He's trolling himself dawgs LMAO


----------



## imthegame19

Last week Dynamite highest rated segment was While Britt Baker vs. Priscilla. Hangman and Kenny had highest 18-49 viewership. While Moxley/Pac gained 80k in viewers. That tells me there had to be big drop for Inner Circle vs Jungle Express or Janela vs MJF must have lost a lot of viewers. Meltzer should release full break downs in Observer this week.


----------



## K4L318

imthegame19 said:


> Last week Dynamite highest rated segment was While Britt Baker vs. Priscilla. Hangman and Kenny had highest 18-49 viewership. While Moxley/Pac gained 80k in viewers. That tells me there had to be big drop for Inner Circle vs Jungle Express or Janela vs MJF must have lost a lot of viewers. Meltzer should release full break downs in Observer this week.


same time Zion was making his debut on espn? wash it out.


----------



## imthegame19

K4L318 said:


> same time Zion was making his debut on espn? wash it out.


Yeah


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> let's do some steiner math as well
> 
> Iff he has a normal typing speed of 40 WPM.
> Let's consider his normal post between 400-500 words
> Let's factor in thinking as well
> Surely he's spending about 10-15 minutes per post.
> Now multiply that by his number of posts
> 
> 
> That's between 7530 and 11295 minutes
> In hours, that's 125.5h and 188.25h
> Approximately 5-8 days worth of typing and trolling in a month that's not even over.
> 
> He's trolling himself dawgs LMAO


That's not even Steiner maths. That's Meltzer maths. 



K4L318 said:


> It is bad. Hot shotting is going wit a hot hand and being left wit a mess.
> 
> Becky appearing in NXT hot shotted Rhea. Chris Jericho is a brand that TNT wants as the poster boy to Dynamite.
> 
> They gave everything away. Revival and Undisputed flopped. NXT's last PPV attendance was horrendous.
> 
> Shayna and Ripley hot shotted the title on to Rhea via Becky Lynch. Balor and Gargano are squares. Cole isn't a big star, Ciampa can barely stay healthy.
> 
> NXT has little to no angles since Velveteen was hurt.


You clearly don't understand what hot-shotting is. 

No, it doesn't necessarily leave you with a mess. Hot-shotting all the time does.

Rhea was not hot-shot. Fuck's sake. 

They've barely given ANYTHING away. We STILL haven't seen Cole vs. Ciampa, Balor vs. Gargano and just recently got Shayna dropping the belt. These have been built up _since the start._ 

Doing too many angles actually _is_ hot-shotting. That's exactly my point. Came you name the fiery angles NXT has done? They're saving them for when they count. Meanwhile, AEW tries to do one every week, or every other week at least. They are the ones that are going to burn themselves out. 



Garty said:


> I think you need to look a little more into his posting habits then.
> 
> There is no other user here, that, God forbid, has a difference of opinion, that he won't quote and reply to you, with a 5000 word essay, for hours on end, telling you that you're stupid. The guy just can't stop himself. He always has to have the last word. His opinion is always right. He always has "facts", to back up any and all criticism that comes his way, regarding said opinions. He's a liar, a hypocrite and a fucking hack. I think the people that have him on ignore, only do so because of what he does (spamming, flaming, enticing, reinforcing, belittling, hijacking) not really because of what he says (albeit that is a factor for sure). Of course he would then say that he's, "one thee internettz" because they cannot dispute me and my facts". I have asked this question, as well as someone in this thread (or other thread), of what his end-game to all of this is. What does he get out of it, other than another stroke of his obvious massive ego?
> 
> Unfortunately, he's not going to go away any time soon and so far, the Admins or Mods, have been of little, to no help at all. No warnings. No talks. No bans. No vacations. No exclusions. Nothing. If he's gotten this far, trashing a company (and it's fans) that he doesn't watch or doesn't like (but sure has a lot to say about it) without impunity for this long, then there's nothing that's going to stop him.


Speaking of "cannot help themselves." Here's another essay about Garty's personal obsession with me. 

Yo, dude -- what hot-shotting is and isn't doesn't count as an opinion. The sky being blue is not an opinion. Photosynthesis is not an opinion. You try and post everything into this fluid realm of subjectivity, but not everything is subjective. Whether or not you find donuts tasty is subjective. Whether or not they exist is not. Whether or not they are a popular food is not.

And when we are talking subjectivity, some opinions are based on better information, knowledge, experience, and data than others. They're not all equal, Garty. Now go and make another thread about me and talk about how the mods need to do something about _me_. Yikes.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> That's not even Steiner maths. That's Meltzer maths.


i genuinely laughed


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> You clearly don't understand what hot-shotting is.
> 
> No, it doesn't necessarily leave you with a mess. Hot-shotting all the time does.
> 
> Rhea was not hot-shot. Fuck's sake.
> 
> They've barely given ANYTHING away. We STILL haven't seen Cole vs. Ciampa, Balor vs. Gargano and just recently got Shayna dropping the belt. These have been built up _since the start._
> 
> Doing too many angles actually _is_ hot-shotting. That's exactly my point. Came you name the fiery angles NXT has done? They're saving them for when they count. Meanwhile, AEW tries to do one every week, or every other week at least. They are the ones that are going to burn themselves out.


LOL

Yes it do. For instance they aint know what to do wit Keith Lee when he was the guy. They hot shotted Balor over him wit Cole when Keith Lee got hot they did it wit him and wasted Riddle.

Rhea was not the girl. Bianca Belair was and Rhea was pushed over her. Fuck's sake.

We seen that weekly. And it wont draw cuz wrestling fans dont give a fuck about it.

NXT is terrible at angles. They do matches and have been exposed through Survivor Series using main roster talent and only getting a 100,000-250,000 boost from it and losing it all after 1 week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I mean, what kind of bump did you expect those guys to give NXT? Mick Foley is a much larger star than anyone WWE has sent to NXT and he only added 100k viewers to TNA when he went there.


----------



## K4L318

TKO Wrestling said:


> I mean, what kind of bump did you expect those guys to give NXT? Mick Foley is a much larger star than anyone WWE has sent to NXT and he only added 100k viewers to TNA when he went there.


dat the point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Its hard to even come up with a name that will give them a consistent and long bump in ratings.

its Cena, Punk and Danielson only really

the first two are too expensive and the last one is under contract

nobody else would bring anything but a short term boost.


----------



## K4L318

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its hard to even come up with a name that will give them a consistent and long bump in ratings.
> 
> its Cena, Punk and Danielson only really
> 
> the first two are too expensive and the last one is under contract
> 
> nobody else would bring anything but a short term boost.


Facts.


----------



## Jonhern

D


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its hard to even come up with a name that will give them a consistent and long bump in ratings.
> 
> its Cena, Punk and Danielson only really
> 
> the first two are too expensive and the last one is under contract
> 
> nobody else would bring anything but a short term boost.


DB didn't help SD but for the one return show. So he's not even in the convo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> D
> 
> DB didn't help SD but for the one return show. So he's not even in the convo.


He has a fan favourite following that will ‘come with him’

maybe 200k?

mmmmaybe Okada and Naito can be in the conversation too

funny thing is - they’ll get the ratings bump they require anyway if they just keep building their guys

Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Sammy even Marko has big potential when they’ve had a year or two.


----------



## captainzombie

optikk sucks said:


> Somebody who doesn't even watch the show has the most amount of posts for the show's forum. WHAT THE FUCK LOL


Yup, that is one of my biggest beefs on this forum is that you get people like The Wood that don't even watch the show yet they post 750 times. LOL! Gotta love the powers at be.....


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> LOL
> 
> Yes it do. For instance they aint know what to do wit Keith Lee when he was the guy. They hot shotted Balor over him wit Cole when Keith Lee got hot they did it wit him and wasted Riddle.
> 
> Rhea was not the girl. Bianca Belair was and Rhea was pushed over her. Fuck's sake.
> 
> We seen that weekly. And it wont draw cuz wrestling fans dont give a fuck about it.
> 
> NXT is terrible at angles. They do matches and have been exposed through Survivor Series using main roster talent and only getting a 100,000-250,000 boost from it and losing it all after 1 week.


They do know what to do with Keith Lee, lol. He just shoved Brock Lesnar on his ass on the second biggest PPV of the year.

Rhea is the girl. Bianca is green but still just got a showcase in the Women's Royal Rumble. 

Can you name an angle that has been particularly terribly executed? I would like to try and understand what you even mean by this. 

NXT beat AEW for weeks after Survivor Series, except for one week somewhere there, and AEW only turned it around after the hiatus. Now it looks like Rhea Ripley is going to get a WrestleMania push and we might even see some more crossover stuff. Whoa-oh. 



captainzombie said:


> Yup, that is one of my biggest beefs on this forum is that you get people like The Wood that don't even watch the show yet they post 750 times. LOL! Gotta love the powers at be.....


More lies. I've watched the show. I don't watch every week, but there are plenty of things to discuss outside that. You're trying to take what you value most about a subject and blow it up to be the whole story and force everyone's interests to comply with yours. 

I post lots because there is plenty to reply to, because half this board is obsessed with me slapping them in the face with logic, lol. And I do a damn good job and leave people making up blatant lies like "you get people like The Wood that don't even watch the show." Try again.


----------



## bdon

“For weeks”?

It was, what, 3 weeks? You’re so goddamn full of shit, @The Wood . You brag about them winning for 3 fucking weeks, and yet AEW is still garbage despite winning, what, 11 out of 15 weeks and tying one? 

Your NXT bias is becoming obvious. You aren’t a WWE fan, but you’re definitely stuck in the Monday Night Wars way of thinking you should shit on the other program.

Meanwhile, I’m just loving the fact that Wednesday is well on its way to becoming THE night for wrestling, what with a likely combined 2.5 to 3 million viewers within a year or two.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Attendance just keeps getting worse and worse..











These venues are really small to begin with.This is a far cry from the limited but available.. JR tweeted about today. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1222535488395005954


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Yea when they announced they were going to Cleveland I felt it wasn't going to be well attended. I think it might be the same next week too in middle of nowhere Alabama.

The crowd was into it which is nice despite the low attendance.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Low attendance? Looked like 4-5k?


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> Attendance just keeps getting worse and worse..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These venues are really small to begin with.This is a far cry from the limited but available.. JR tweeted about today.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1222535488395005954


That was before Dark even started. I saw those pictures at 625 lol. It was a lot more filled then that come show time. Arena about 9-10 k. I'm guessing they did at least 5 k. It looked really good on tv.


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> That was before Dark even started. I saw those pictures at 625 lol. It was a lot more filled then that come show time. Arena about 9-10 k. I'm guessing they did at least 5 k. It looked really good on tv.


Honestly, I'm not disputing this at all because I don't know but why would every person who got tickets for that side show up before every person who got tickets for the other side?


----------



## NathanMayberry

imthegame19 said:


> That was before Dark even started. I saw those pictures at 625 lol. It was a lot more filled then that come show time. Arena about 9-10 k. I'm guessing they did at least 5 k. It looked really good on tv.












Was this also before Dark?


----------



## The Masked Avenger

The camera side is always like that.


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> Was this also before Dark?


That's hard cam side. It's always like that. Again nobody said it was a sell out. The arena is probably size of 9k and they probably did at least 5 k. Which is solid for tv.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Cult03 said:


> I'm actually seeing a lot of people outside this WF bubble claiming it was one of the best PPV's of the decade. This forum isn't indicative of the worlds opinion at all


I thought it was excellent. First wwe ppv I've watched since Summerslam. Only the Bayley Lacey match was a dud. I was highly critical of WWE last year and stopped watching for a few months but I'll give credit where credit is due, the past 6 weeks have been a vast improvement. Especially Raw.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> That was before Dark even started. I saw those pictures at 625 lol. It was a lot more filled then that come show time. Arena about 9-10 k. I'm guessing they did at least 5 k. It looked really good on tv.


They pulled back on a shot to show the crowd, and you can tell the point where they cut because only the first few rows had people in them. 



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> The camera side is always like that.


That's not a good thing, lol.


----------



## fabi1982

I dont mind them not selling out, because getting constantly above 3k each week is good. All I laugh about is the marks who for the first couple sellouts and even before Dynamite started making fun of tarp in WWE and that AEW is smashing in attendence numbers. Now it seems that AEW cant even afford tarp and just dont care and everyone is, yeah but big venues, yeah bad cities they go to. But hey, who wants to compare


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> They pulled back on a shot to show the crowd, and you can tell the point where they cut because only the first few rows had people in them.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not a good thing, lol.


NXT wouldnt even get 800 fans to fill that arena wit no main roster talent.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> NXT wouldnt even get 800 fans to fill that arena wit no main roster talent.


AEW touring is running off the fumes of them being the "other." Those fumes are running out. That's why NXT isn't touring. They know that if they left Full Sail the hardcore fans that are interested in more wrestling are spending their money on AEW. If they decide to tour it will be when AEW starts bumming people out and NXT can strike with a different hot iron.


----------



## Cult03

K4L318 said:


> NXT wouldnt even get 800 fans to fill that arena wit no main roster talent.


AEW wouldn't get 800 without main roster talent either. These are unfair and bullshit comparisons.


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> AEW wouldn't get 800 without main roster talent either. These are unfair and bullshit comparisons.


I think one of the most ridiculous thing from AEW fans is that they take the AEW original talent and compare them to the NXT talent and act as if the AEW guys are distinctly better even though they all came from the indies and the gems of that actually got plucked by NXT.


----------



## fabi1982

Just that I know, what special, strange or world-entertaining things were on last night, just that I dont overreact, when they drop compared to last week. I would guess that the corona virus is the reason this time?!


----------



## Aedubya

I'll guess 0.88 , a slight win


----------



## A PG Attitude

The Wood said:


> How dare I post in a wrestling forum? What sort of stance is this? A few people seem to be taking it. Is this another version of "it's just silly wrestling" perspective?


How do you have time to post an average of thirty times a day especially when you post so many essay replies. Do you not have a job or a life outside of posting on here?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Low attendance? Looked like 4-5k?


4.8K


----------



## IamMark

3rd AEW 828k/0.34
37th NXT 712k/0.22


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> 4.8K


That’s good, isn’t it?

def above average


----------



## qntntgood

IamMark said:


> AEW 828k/0.34
> NXT 712k/0.22


Wow, what were the highest rated segment,then again was there an NBA game on because I have that the numbers will go up for both show's during the summer.


----------



## imthegame19

Drop in viewership was expected given weak card IMO. But gotta love being 3rd in 18-49 demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3rd is a nice spot - very well done if that is true


----------



## IamMark

qntntgood said:


> Wow, what were the highest rated segment,then again was there an NBA game on because I have that the numbers will go up for both show's during the summer.


I guess we have to wait for Uncle Dave tomorrow.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> 4.8K


Thats really good, I thought it would be closer to the 2500-3000 range. I just wish they would pick more appropriate size arenas in the future. There has to be a large high school in every city like they used the Culver Center in Dallas/Garland. 4800 in that place looks great.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fffff.... that is a very good spot

that key demo is mint!

just a tad more and they can take top spot - does the NBA have seasons?

edit> they were even 2nd spot in their hours, beating the NBA - which is very good


----------



## Buhalovski

Hopefully that means they wont go back to boring tag team spotfests and stick with more promos. Last nights show was one of my favorite in the past month or so.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tsvetoslava said:


> Hopefully that means they wont go back to boring tag team spotfests and stick with more promos. Last nights show was one of my favorite in the past month or so.


...... they had like 4 tag matches ?‍♂


----------



## rbl85

AEW was down only in the 2 oldest demos and actually up in the Younger demos.


----------



## Buhalovski

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... they had like 4 tag matches ?‍♂


Yes but MOX/Jericho was longer than usual. Britt Baker had a promo too. Also MJF/PAC segments were pretty dope as well. Thats my kind of show, I hope they stick to that.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Tsvetoslava said:


> Yes but MOX/Jericho was longer than usual. Britt Baker had a promo too. Also MJF/PAC segments were pretty dope as well. Thats my kind of show, I hope they stick to that.


Yep. Love the MJF and Pac segments.


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> Thats really good, I thought it would be closer to the 2500-3000 range. I just wish they would pick more appropriate size arenas in the future. There has to be a large high school in every city like they used the Culver Center in Dallas/Garland. 4800 in that place looks great.


Arenas they run seem to be mostly under 10,000 in size. Any smaller probably struggle to fit in set


----------



## CMPunkRock316

3rd is really good for AEW. I would like to see higher viewership still. NXT not even competing LOL.


----------



## MrThortan

Real Housewives of NJ being that popular worries me about humanity's future. _cringe_


----------



## The Wood

I predicted that NXT would be within reach this week. They didn't quite get there. Those demos that people crow about are only a little above average. Yes, they are #3 on a quiet night, which is beneficial, but they are doing worse with demos in their slot than SmackDown does in theirs on Fridays.


----------



## Illogical

Just popped in to see if AEW's about to go out of business...


IamMark said:


> 3rd AEW 828k/0.34
> 37th NXT 712k/0.22


not quite yet. I'll check back next week.

The Wood, the way you have more than 2x the amount of posts in this forum than anyone else this month and hate AEW is one of the saddest things ever accomplished. Good job! Keep it up, friend!


----------



## The Wood

Lol, everything's fine until it's not. So many people can't stop and think about the future. Y'all would deny smoking causes cancer because you have a pack and you're fine. That's always been people's concern about the popularity of this product. Not that it would immediately drop to 400k overnight.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

*TOP

THREE*


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the fat guy's stand off with Lesnar did NOTHING for NXT


----------



## The Wood

You take some time off work during the Christmas holidays to see some dying relatives and help out some friends that have had a lot of their shit ravaged by the fucking bushfires, and don't feel like going to the beach in 90% humidity, so you sit down and talk about one of your favorite pass times -- thinking about wrestling. You go to a wrestling forum to do so and the people there try and make fun of you because you are involved in their community. 

Fucking classy, guys. 

Honestly, I don't really care, because I'm secure in who I am. I don't feel the need to like something just because it panders to me and has been shoved in my face as some cool new alternative when it's more of exactly the same shit, but it really shows that you are not and have to go to those measures instead of _rebuking what I actually say_.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> the fat guy's stand off with Lesnar did NOTHING for NXT


Shit like that doesn't happen instantly, lol.


----------



## qntntgood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 3rd is a nice spot - very well done if that is true


And Aew beat an NBA game,then again that story about vince threatening to cancel nxt.might have some legs, to if they don't start picking it up.


----------



## Jazminator

Just how important are NXT’s ratings, if you’re the WWE? 

If you just want NXT to hurt AEW, then leave it where it is.

But if ratings are important, maybe they should consider moving the time slot. I’d happily watch both shows back to back.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

if you guys look at that rating, AEW are top 2 for male 18-49. their target demographic.

Just need to get those females 18-49 watching the show now. Tough crowd to crack lol


----------



## fabi1982

I dont get why people hype this? Honestly because on vacation, I didnt watch this week, so cant say if good or bad episode, but losing 5% viewership when basketball does a million less viewers than the week before, where everyone says it robs them viewers is strange. Demo seems to be similar to last week. Anyways, seems like around 800-850 seems to be their key audience, which is far away from the 1m everyone was expecting soon. And I honestly thought with the cruise being „special“ and silent mox running around they at least can keep it close to 900.


----------



## Jazminator

The Wood said:


> You take some time off work during the Christmas holidays to see some dying relatives and help out some friends that have had a lot of their shit ravaged by the fucking bushfires, and don't feel like going to the beach in 90% humidity, so you sit down and talk about one of your favorite pass times -- thinking about wrestling. You go to a wrestling forum to do so and the people there try and make fun of you because you are involved in their community.
> 
> Fucking classy, guys.
> 
> Honestly, I don't really care, because I'm secure in who I am. I don't feel the need to like something just because it panders to me and has been shoved in my face as some cool new alternative when it's more of exactly the same shit, but it really shows that you are not and have to go to those measures instead of _rebuking what I actually say_.


Sorry to hear about your family. I rarely agree with your views, but I think that’s just because we approach pro wrestling differently. As long as you recognize that your opinions are just that - opinions - then you should be free to express yourself however you like.


----------



## The Wood

Jazminator said:


> Just how important are NXT’s ratings, if you’re the WWE?
> 
> If you just want NXT to hurt AEW, then leave it where it is.
> 
> But if ratings are important, maybe they should consider moving the time slot. I’d happily watch both shows back to back.


Thanks for the kind words. Agree that opinions are opinions, but facts are facts too. A lot of people on here (not you) have a hard time swallowing those lol. 

The ratings aren't as important for NXT. WWE is important to the USA Network. Without them, they sink quite low, which gives WWE leverage that they, say, don't have with FOX. They're also a big enough company and have NXT out there on other platforms enough that the 750k or whatever they get probably appeals to advertisers a lot more than what people taking a staunch pro-AEW stance think. They're part of an established empire and WWE probably lets sponsors know about their demos on the WWE Network, etc. I can't remember the last time I saw a Takeover, and I don't normally pay attention to these sorts of things, but you might seem some pretty good sponsors doing placement on NXT, whereas AEW has Cracker Barrel.

The ratings are a lot more involved than reading a number off the screen and saying "That's great!" or "That's awful!". It depends how that data is interpreted by advertisers, which in turn affects how the networks see them. NXT might be making a killing in ad revenue wile certain advertisers may not want to touch wrestling without the WWE name with a ten foot pole _despite_ their great demo rating. 

AEW have been winning since the start of the year, but these numbers are not fixed, nor is it something WWE can't turn around with a few simple adjustments. These are just adjustments that they haven't cared to make yet. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that. They've got to be careful going too hard after AEW, because that will make the fans sympathetic to the "other" again, which strengthens them. If NXT became Takeover every week, it could have an adverse effect where more people talk to each other and make it a point to watch AEW and tape NXT. 

The goal is to rope-a-dope AEW. They're heading towards Revolution and they're going to do their Jericho/Moxley and Cody/MJF programs. They've made mistakes along the way and they will make more. They'll get confident, then WWE will start doing the big things for Mania when AEW doesn't seem to have much bigger stuff to go to.

Rhea Ripley vs. Charlotte is being rumored for WrestleMania. Shayna Baszler, who may or may not become a Raw talent, is rumored for Becky Lynch. An NXT star could win the men's and/or women's Battle Royals (for whatever that's worth). These may not seem like huge moves, but they will put millions more eyeballs onto certain people and give NXT another big credibility boost. 

My prediction has always been that NXT turns things around by WrestleMania time. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about that. They don't need to go running to another time-slot, and they would never "admit defeat" like that, especially when they don't need to concede yet. 

I've also gone on record as saying that I think it will be Dynamite that moves. I stand by that. Not because I think ratings will get so low that the network moves them in shame, but TV networks often do wonky things with even things they deem successful. I think someone is going to have the bright idea that AEW would do equally well in another slot or later at night, because wrestling fans and the key demo will stick with it if it moves, and they can possibly grow it even bigger. And I don't think anyone in AEW stops them, and I think that hurts them long-term. That's more a "wild prediction" and is a believe it when you see it thing, but that's just the sort of thing I see networks doing. Especially if AEW starts getting beaten. Because we know what they are like when they are winning, but the wheels often come off when they start getting knocked around a bit.


----------



## fabi1982

Best of luck to your friends with the bushfires @The Wood


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

something.... a little birdie.... called the stock price....

tells me WWE won’t be signing massive long term contracts for long 

edit> for those that don’t know, WWE‘s stock took a massive beating and they fired two co-presidents effective immediately


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> something.... a little birdie.... called the stock price....
> 
> tells me WWE won’t be signing massive long term contracts for long
> 
> edit> for those that don’t know, WWE‘s stock took a massive beating and they fired two co-presidents effective immediately


Lol, why would you extrapolate that from that? WWE are making billions upon billions of dollars. Do you really think that they're restructuring because that money has magically gone into Barrios and Wilson's pockets? Wtf?


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> Best of luck to your friends with the bushfires @The Wood


Thanks! To clarify, everyone is okay. I don't know a single person who has been hurt or is completely out on the street or anything. So many have it much, much worse. It's been some property damage and it's more the emotional labor going through that sort of stuff. People have come together much more effectively than our government, haha. 

I only brought it up because so many people keep trying to use the "Ha! You post on a wrestling forum!" as a dig. I mean, it's ridiculous enough to say that on a wrestling forum that they are also using, lol, but I just want them to take a bit of a look at themselves and see how they are trying to hurt people and just how pathetic it is.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> something.... a little birdie.... called the stock price....
> 
> tells me WWE won’t be signing massive long term contracts for long
> 
> edit> for those that don’t know, WWE‘s stock took a massive beating and they fired two co-presidents effective immediately


I thought the stocks dropped after they fired those 2 people.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Agree that opinions are opinions, but facts are facts too. A lot of people on here (not you) have a hard time swallowing those lol.
> 
> The ratings aren't as important for NXT. WWE is important to the USA Network. Without them, they sink quite low, which gives WWE leverage that they, say, don't have with FOX. They're also a big enough company and have NXT out there on other platforms enough that the 750k or whatever they get probably appeals to advertisers a lot more than what people taking a staunch pro-AEW stance think. They're part of an established empire and WWE probably lets sponsors know about their demos on the WWE Network, etc. I can't remember the last time I saw a Takeover, and I don't normally pay attention to these sorts of things, but you might seem some pretty good sponsors doing placement on NXT, whereas AEW has Cracker Barrel.
> 
> The ratings are a lot more involved than reading a number off the screen and saying "That's great!" or "That's awful!". It depends how that data is interpreted by advertisers, which in turn affects how the networks see them. NXT might be making a killing in ad revenue wile certain advertisers may not want to touch wrestling without the WWE name with a ten foot pole _despite_ their great demo rating.
> 
> AEW have been winning since the start of the year, but these numbers are not fixed, nor is it something WWE can't turn around with a few simple adjustments. These are just adjustments that they haven't cared to make yet. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that. They've got to be careful going too hard after AEW, because that will make the fans sympathetic to the "other" again, which strengthens them. If NXT became Takeover every week, it could have an adverse effect where more people talk to each other and make it a point to watch AEW and tape NXT.
> 
> The goal is to rope-a-dope AEW. They're heading towards Revolution and they're going to do their Jericho/Moxley and Cody/MJF programs. They've made mistakes along the way and they will make more. They'll get confident, then WWE will start doing the big things for Mania when AEW doesn't seem to have much bigger stuff to go to.
> 
> Rhea Ripley vs. Charlotte is being rumored for WrestleMania. Shayna Baszler, who may or may not become a Raw talent, is rumored for Becky Lynch. An NXT star could win the men's and/or women's Battle Royals (for whatever that's worth). These may not seem like huge moves, but they will put millions more eyeballs onto certain people and give NXT another big credibility boost.
> 
> My prediction has always been that NXT turns things around by WrestleMania time. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about that. They don't need to go running to another time-slot, and they would never "admit defeat" like that, especially when they don't need to concede yet.
> 
> I've also gone on record as saying that I think it will be Dynamite that moves. I stand by that. Not because I think ratings will get so low that the network moves them in shame, but TV networks often do wonky things with even things they deem successful. I think someone is going to have the bright idea that AEW would do equally well in another slot or later at night, because wrestling fans and the key demo will stick with it if it moves, and they can possibly grow it even bigger. And I don't think anyone in AEW stops them, and I think that hurts them long-term. That's more a "wild prediction" and is a believe it when you see it thing, but that's just the sort of thing I see networks doing. Especially if AEW starts getting beaten. Because we know what they are like when they are winning, but the wheels often come off when they start getting knocked around a bit.


You incorrectly predicted show's demise - I'd stop making predictions if I was you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I thought the stocks dropped after they fired those 2 people.


Yep, fired first, now stock dropped by 20% in an hour
expected bad earning report coming (I knew they bloody accrued a bigger portion of future TV and Saudi funds in last Q)

blood in the water mate - when you start fucking with your CFO - and even worse have an interim one pulling double duty - hard times ahead for them


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep, fired first, now stock dropped by 20% in an hour
> expected bad earning report coming (I knew they bloody accrued a bigger portion of future TV and Saudi funds in last Q)
> 
> blood in the water mate


should i buy some stock


----------



## Aedubya

Saudi blood money


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> should i buy some stock


...... maybe..... wait a bit 

they have zero good stories to tell this Q i think


----------



## Pippen94

qntntgood said:


> And Aew beat an NBA game,then again that story about vince threatening to cancel nxt.might have some legs, to if they don't start picking it up.


Nxt failed in its purpose to stop aew picking up long term TV deal. Ratings are poor & 3rd national show over saturates market - plenty of reasons USA show may disappear


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You incorrectly predicted show's demise - I'd stop making predictions if I was you.


No I didn't. Stop lying.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep, fired first, now stock dropped by 20% in an hour
> expected bad earning report coming (I knew they bloody accrued a bigger portion of future TV and Saudi funds in last Q)
> 
> blood in the water mate - when you start fucking with your CFO - and even worse have an interim one pulling double duty - hard times ahead for them


Honestly this is just how things go in the stock market. When Elon had the interview smoking pot the stock dropped, when Google had bad press for their monopoly work, the stock dropped, when Facebook had the cambridge analytics thing, the stock dropped and look where they are now. WWE stock took several hits over the last couple years and steadily went up.

just wait two weeks and it is above what it is now.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... maybe..... wait a bit
> 
> they have zero good stories to tell this Q i think


im gonna buy some when the market opens tomorrow fuck it.











when wrestlemania comes round they'll be back around the 60$ mark. reached $100 at one point


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No I didn't. Stop lying.


In other thread another member reposted your comments.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

it reached $100usd around wrestlemania time.

i'm gonna double my money by april.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Nxt failed in its purpose to stop aew picking up long term TV deal. Ratings are poor & 3rd national show over saturates market - plenty of reasons USA show may disappear


That's not the purpose of NXT unless you listen to Dave Meltzer who doesn't seem to have his ear close to that. When was the last time Meltzer got a scoop anything NXT related? I think the last thing I remember him saying about NXT was that it was going to be taken over by Vince McMahon in a more involved capacity.

Dave talks to the All Elite EVPs. They tell him this nonsense from their warped perspective and he reports it as genuine fact, even if it clashes with the reality of things. NXT was going to try and crush them with hot-shotting. Didn't happen. NXT talent can't wait to leave. Doesn't seem to be true. WWE talent cannot wait to jump. No one has. They can get any talent they want. Sure. NXT exists only to stamp out AEW's existence. 

NXT now generates eight figures for WWE. That offsets the deficits of running developmental. It also generates ad revenue and gets more exposure to talent. It did block AEW from getting a much larger TV deal which would have undermined WWE's giant deals next go-around. WWE aren't sweating a promotion with 850k viewers and a $45 million TV rights deal. 

NXT has done its job adequately enough. And when they turn things around and start beating AEW, there's going to be even more to the story of how WWE has secured its place as a virtual monopoly in wrestling. 

It's a child-like perspective to think that NXT was put on TV to stamp AEW out of existence in six months of television. How does that even work?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> im gonna buy some when the market opens tomorrow fuck it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when wrestlemania comes round they'll be back around the 60$ mark. reached $100 at one point


it is a solid gamble for sure - I don’t think you’ll be sorry

the only thing that worries me in this whole thing is firing the CFO and the statement that says basically ‘we disagreed on the spending of money or how to make future money’

that is alarm bells for me / might show the CFO was pushing a more cautious approach and Vince wasn’t having any of it

can go either way. I agree it will pick up for WM

but i think it has more to fall first

firing a CFO + bad Q = disaster stocks


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> In other thread another member reposted your comments.


Yes, that was Garty. He is obsessed with me and collects my posts, claiming _I've_ got a mental disorder, and posts things out of context which actually state the _opposite_ of what he says I'm trying to say. 

The first thing he posted in that was me saying "I don't think they'll be out of business within a year"


----------



## Jedah

Decent rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is a solid gamble for sure - I don’t think you’ll be sorry
> 
> the only thing that worries me in this whole thing is firing the CFO and the statement that says basically ‘we disagreed on the spending of money or how to make future money’
> 
> that is alarm bells for me / might show the CFO was pushing a more cautious approach and Vince wasn’t having any of it
> 
> can go either way. I agree it will pick up for WM
> 
> but i think it has more to fall first
> 
> firing a CFO + bad Q = disaster stocks


Yiu know what I’ll be doing tomorrow - keeping an eye on Wall Street ?

wondering if this is because WWE are offering our ridiculous overpriced contracts to wrestlers to stop them from going to AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> That's not the purpose of NXT unless you listen to Dave Meltzer who doesn't seem to have his ear close to that. When was the last time Meltzer got a scoop anything NXT related? I think the last thing I remember him saying about NXT was that it was going to be taken over by Vince McMahon in a more involved capacity.
> 
> Dave talks to the All Elite EVPs. They tell him this nonsense from their warped perspective and he reports it as genuine fact, even if it clashes with the reality of things. NXT was going to try and crush them with hot-shotting. Didn't happen. NXT talent can't wait to leave. Doesn't seem to be true. WWE talent cannot wait to jump. No one has. They can get any talent they want. Sure. NXT exists only to stamp out AEW's existence.
> 
> NXT now generates eight figures for WWE. That offsets the deficits of running developmental. It also generates ad revenue and gets more exposure to talent. It did block AEW from getting a much larger TV deal which would have undermined WWE's giant deals next go-around. WWE aren't sweating a promotion with 850k viewers and a $45 million TV rights deal.
> 
> NXT has done its job adequately enough. And when they turn things around and start beating AEW, there's going to be even more to the story of how WWE has secured its place as a virtual monopoly in wrestling.
> 
> It's a child-like perspective to think that NXT was put on TV to stamp AEW out of existence in six months of television. How does that even work?


Funny wwe choose to run nxt opposite aew on Wednesday - just coincidence
Bidding war for talent loses wwe whatever financial benefit of USA deal.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> Funny wwe choose to run nxt opposite aew on Wednesday - just coincidence
> Bidding war for talent loses wwe whatever financial benefit of USA deal.


You’re wrong bro.

tHe rEaL WiNnErS Of lAsT NiGhT’S HeAd-tO-HeAd tElEcAsTs oF NxT On uSa nEtWoRk aNd aEw oN TnT ArE ThE FaNs, WhO CaN ExPeCt wEdNeSdAy nIgHtS To bE A CoMpEtItIvE AnD WiLd rIdE As tHiS Is a mArAtHoN, nOt a oNe-nIgHt sPrInT


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Reading that tweet reminds me how WWE thought Wednesday would be competitive


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> You’re wrong bro.
> 
> tHe rEaL WiNnErS Of lAsT NiGhT’S HeAd-tO-HeAd tElEcAsTs oF NxT On uSa nEtWoRk aNd aEw oN TnT ArE ThE FaNs, WhO CaN ExPeCt wEdNeSdAy nIgHtS To bE A CoMpEtItIvE AnD WiLd rIdE As tHiS Is a mArAtHoN, nOt a oNe-nIgHt sPrInT


‘The winners because of the monopoly trying to strangle-hold the industry by trying to stifle competition and make every wrestler beholden to them and kill all the indies globally who does not fall in line is the FAAAANNNS, MAAAANNN’

Meekmahan is a gEnIuS


----------



## bdon

IamMark said:


> 3rd AEW 828k/0.34
> 37th NXT 712k/0.22


_cough_


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> if you guys look at that rating, AEW are top 2 for male 18-49. their target demographic.
> 
> Just need to get those females 18-49 watching the show now. Tough crowd to crack lol


This never gets responded to, but how are these demographics measured accurately? They can't possibly be.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Nxt failed in its purpose to stop aew picking up long term TV deal. Ratings are poor & 3rd national show over saturates market - plenty of reasons USA show may disappear


Lol, ever the victim hey Pippen? Where's your proof that a company started years earlier that people have wanted on tv for years was started for the single purpose of stopping a company from picking up a long term TV deal?

Also what the fuck, America? Real Housewives of NJ or any city for that matter shouldn't outrate anything for fucks sake. Fuck AEW's phony war with NXT, I'm going to need them to step up their game to beat that bullshit reality TV show as soon as possible.


----------



## bdon

WCW used to beat NBA on TNT weekly, and the execs still weren’t giving them the necessary money.

On another note, I’m just happy see Wednesday nights becoming the night for the best wrestling night. Fuck Raw. Fuck SD. Shows suck.


----------



## imthegame19

1/15 Dynamite

Opened with 952,000 viewers for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks vs. Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz
Ending of the four-way tag plus the Cody interview gained 63,000 viewers but lost 7,000 in 18-49
Joey Janela interview and the beginning of Brandi Rhodes & Mel vs. Kris Statlander & Hikaru Shida lost 79,000 viewers overall and lost 57,000 in 18-49.
Ending of Rhodes & Mel vs. Statlander & Shida match and beginning of Jon Moxley vs. Sammy Guevara lost 26,000 viewers and lost 9,000 in 18-49
Ending of Moxley vs Guevara and Jericho eye attack of Moxley gained 77,000 viewers and 30,000 in 18-49
Inner Circle promo and beginning of the Dustin Rhodes & DDP & QT Marshall vs. MJF & Butcher & Blade match lost 42,000 viewers and lost 27,000 in 18-49.
Ending of the match lost 15,000 viewers and lost 1,000 in 18-49.
Pac vs. Darby Allin lost 88,000 viewers and lost 22,000 in 18-49


1/22 Dynamite Cruise
Opened with 906,000 viewers for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky for the tag titles.
Gained 22,000 viewers overall and 22,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the Omega & Page vs. Kazarian & Sky match.
Gained 10,000 total viewers but lost 12,000 in 18-49 for Britt Baker vs. Priscilla Kelly and the Baker post-match promo.
Lost 76,000 viewers and 35,000 in 18-49 for the beginning of Chris Jericho & Santana & Ortiz vs. Luchasaurus & Marko Stunt & Jungle Boy.
Ending of the Jericho six-man tag and beginning of MJF vs. Joey Janela gained 32,000 viewers and 17,000 in 18-49.
Ending of MJF vs. Janela, the Cody/MJF interview and Young Bucks throwing MJF in the pool, which gained 14,000 viewers and 1,000 in 18-49.
Omega & Page interview and beginning of Jon Moxley vs. Pac, lost 82,000 viewers and lost 29,000 in 18-49.
Pac vs. Moxley gained 79,000 viewers and 16,000 in 18-49


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> WCW used to beat NBA on TNT weekly, and the execs still weren’t giving them the necessary money.


Well techinally they were since they owned the company and where paying all WCW massive contracts. Problem was they were just losing millions a year in 2000-2001.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Funny wwe choose to run nxt opposite aew on Wednesday - just coincidence
> Bidding war for talent loses wwe whatever financial benefit of USA deal.


NXT always dropped on a Wednesday. It's no coincidence they chose then to monetize it -- which was obviously the plan for years. Running opposition doesn't mean you are trying to prevent them from getting any sort of TV deal. You might be trying to stop their chances at a great one, which given AEW is only getting $45 million a year, you could say they did. 

Got no clue what your next point has to do with anything, but do you really think that WWE are spending $300 million on talent a year? 



optikk sucks said:


> Reading that tweet reminds me how WWE thought Wednesday would be competitive


They are. I'm happy to call this a loss, but you do realize Nielsen themselves say that you can give or take 10% with the Nielsen scores, right? A really simple Google search backs this up. 10% off AEW's rating this week is 745.2k. 10% onto NXT's would be 783.2k. It's within the realm of possibility that more people watched NXT this week. 

I'm not going to assert that it's true, but it's just funny to see people who have no idea how ratings are tabulated and what they mean in 2020 do lame meme laughs about numbers that aren't that fucking wide apart, lol. This whole war could have been a lot closer in reality than what the TV ratings imply. I've talked about NXT winning the end of the year, but those numbers would have also been close enough that it's possible AEW were winning then. 

NOTHING about this is false. If so, I'd like for you to present some evidence otherwise. And none of this takes into the context of tenor of the times. AEW has largely been busting ass. NXT is only getting back to regularly scheduled programming now. As I said, by Mania, I'd be surprised if NXT is not beating AEW by these antiquated standards. 



Cult03 said:


> This never gets responded to, but how are these demographics measured accurately? They can't possibly be.


They technically can't. As I said in my reply to optikk, a 10% margin of error is generally accepted when discussing ad fees in relations to ratings and such. But I've seen your sensible posts on this, and you're right -- you don't know who is watching at who's house, on what device, etc. 

Some companies have considered opting out of Nielsen altogether. CBS was one of them. 

Source, so I don't get called a troll: CBS Considers Dropping Nielsen Ratings Contract as TV Landscape Changes (EXCLUSIVE)

I'm really surprised that we haven't got a more accurate way to measure ratings. You'd think that with digital mediums and such, things would just be...recorded. I dunno, I'm always surprised to find out just how much guesswork goes on with these things. 

But when you hear Meltzer talking about ratings like exactly 826,000 people watched AEW this week, he's just talking out his ass. What's the old Hedberg joke? "I read that 40,000 people applied for MTV's Real World. That's amazing -- such an even number? You'd think it'd be maybe 40,008."



bdon said:


> WCW used to beat NBA on TNT weekly, and the execs still weren’t giving them the necessary money.
> 
> On another note, I’m just happy see Wednesday nights becoming the night for the best wrestling night. Fuck Raw. Fuck SD. Shows suck.


That's because wrestling has a stigma and wrestling fans have a stigma. That is why I say things like more goes into these ratings than just the number itself. It is how that number is perceived by advertisers. If advertisers aren't spending big money to get AEW slots, then that demo being high is quite frustrating. 

I'm sure you've been right about that in the past, but Raw this past week was better than both NXT and AEW. They've decided to start kicking ass in order to boost their other metrics outside the TV and Saudi money, I bet.


----------



## Pippen94

To say nxt was not moved to USA to oppose aew may be the most ignorant thing written here - even from a troll.
USA aren't paying 300 million for nxt


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Agree that opinions are opinions, but facts are facts too. A lot of people on here (not you) have a hard time swallowing those lol.
> 
> The ratings aren't as important for NXT. WWE is important to the USA Network. Without them, they sink quite low, which gives WWE leverage that they, say, don't have with FOX. They're also a big enough company and have NXT out there on other platforms enough that the 750k or whatever they get probably appeals to advertisers a lot more than what people taking a staunch pro-AEW stance think. They're part of an established empire and WWE probably lets sponsors know about their demos on the WWE Network, etc. I can't remember the last time I saw a Takeover, and I don't normally pay attention to these sorts of things, but you might seem some pretty good sponsors doing placement on NXT, whereas AEW has Cracker Barrel.
> 
> The ratings are a lot more involved than reading a number off the screen and saying "That's great!" or "That's awful!". It depends how that data is interpreted by advertisers, which in turn affects how the networks see them. NXT might be making a killing in ad revenue wile certain advertisers may not want to touch wrestling without the WWE name with a ten foot pole _despite_ their great demo rating.
> 
> AEW have been winning since the start of the year, but these numbers are not fixed, nor is it something WWE can't turn around with a few simple adjustments. These are just adjustments that they haven't cared to make yet. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that. They've got to be careful going too hard after AEW, because that will make the fans sympathetic to the "other" again, which strengthens them. If NXT became Takeover every week, it could have an adverse effect where more people talk to each other and make it a point to watch AEW and tape NXT.
> 
> The goal is to rope-a-dope AEW. They're heading towards Revolution and they're going to do their Jericho/Moxley and Cody/MJF programs. They've made mistakes along the way and they will make more. They'll get confident, then WWE will start doing the big things for Mania when AEW doesn't seem to have much bigger stuff to go to.
> 
> Rhea Ripley vs. Charlotte is being rumored for WrestleMania. Shayna Baszler, who may or may not become a Raw talent, is rumored for Becky Lynch. An NXT star could win the men's and/or women's Battle Royals (for whatever that's worth). These may not seem like huge moves, but they will put millions more eyeballs onto certain people and give NXT another big credibility boost.
> 
> My prediction has always been that NXT turns things around by WrestleMania time. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about that. They don't need to go running to another time-slot, and they would never "admit defeat" like that, especially when they don't need to concede yet.
> 
> I've also gone on record as saying that I think it will be Dynamite that moves. I stand by that. Not because I think ratings will get so low that the network moves them in shame, but TV networks often do wonky things with even things they deem successful. I think someone is going to have the bright idea that AEW would do equally well in another slot or later at night, because wrestling fans and the key demo will stick with it if it moves, and they can possibly grow it even bigger. And I don't think anyone in AEW stops them, and I think that hurts them long-term. That's more a "wild prediction" and is a believe it when you see it thing, but that's just the sort of thing I see networks doing. Especially if AEW starts getting beaten. Because we know what they are like when they are winning, but the wheels often come off when they start getting knocked around a bit.


What makes you think that WWE wouldn’t simply move NXT to whatever night that AEW is at? Or even worse, get USA to put NXT UK up against it?

AEW find itself in a similar situation to WWE at the height of the Monday Night War. The WWF toyed with the idea of moving RAW, but likely knew that it was futile due to the impending arrival of Thunder. WCW was not going to give them any breathing room, and I would not expect WWE to give a well funded competitor any breathing room either.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Lol, ever the victim hey Pippen? Where's your proof that a company started years earlier that people have wanted on tv for years was started for the single purpose of stopping a company from picking up a long term TV deal?
> 
> Also what the fuck, America? Real Housewives of NJ or any city for that matter shouldn't outrate anything for fucks sake. Fuck AEW's phony war with NXT, I'm going to need them to step up their game to beat that bullshit reality TV show as soon as possible.


Why would wwe run show in opposition other than to cut audience & have show disappear?


----------



## Seafort

Pippen94 said:


> Why would wwe run show in opposition other than to cut audience & have show disappear?


Agreed. NXT was on Wednesday’s, but pretaped. 

NXT went live on Wednesday nights to put as much of a damper as possible on AEW and curb any momentum, while at the same time working towards a very lucrative TV deal. Still, I think the first point was the most important at this time, as they could have chosen Tuesdays or Thursdays. But they chose to go head to head at the exact same day and same time...not an hour earlier nor an hour later.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Why would wwe run show in opposition other than to cut audience & have show disappear?


NXT was already on Wednesday. AEW chose to run their show in opposition to NXT, not the other way around. Do you guys honestly think WWE would just go, "they're going up against a live wrestling show now. Good business would be to let them take over our spot". No, don't be fucking dumb. What were they supposed to do? Change days because your precious AEW can't take competition? They moved to USA to save themselves because that's what businesses do, they change or evolve.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> NXT was already on Wednesday. AEW chose to run their show in opposition to NXT, not the other way around. Do you guys honestly think WWE would just go, "they're going up against a live wrestling show now. Good business would be to let them take over our spot". No, don't be fucking dumb. What were they supposed to do? Change days because your precious AEW can't take competition? They moved to USA to save themselves because that's what businesses do, they change or evolve.


Aew #3 last night nxt #37 in ratings - only one will moving or disappearing soon


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Aew #3 last night nxt #37 in ratings - only one will moving or disappearing soon


Yeah maybe, but why can't you answer my question, Pippen? You've avoided it successfully for a while but I'm legitimately curious as to what WWE should have done after AEW decided to put their show on the same day as NXT?


----------



## imthegame19

I wonder when USA forces Vince hand and moves NXT to Tuesday or Thursday? I'm sure it will be a while still. But unlike TNT having AEW on Wednesday with a lot of NBA games on Tuesday and Thursday. USA has no reason to keep NXT on Wednesday if it's doing worse ratings then previous programming did.


Since it's clear there's 300,000 viewers at least who want to watch both shows. With AEW getting majority of those viewers most weeks due to their star power. With few weeks NXT won due to NXT vs Raw vs Smackdown stuff and when NXT had mini Takeover vs weak AEW card. It would be beneficial for both shows not to be going head to head. I believe both could be doing over million viewers other wise.


But network like USA knows all this data. Right now after long relationship with WWE and Vince. I think they are giving them plenty of time to change things around. At some point they will get sick of such poor demo numbers etc tho and tell Vince enough of your petty games. So I wonder if their will be Wednesday night Wars still by end of summer?


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Yeah maybe, but why can't you answer my question, Pippen? You've avoided it successfully for a while but I'm legitimately curious as to what WWE should have done after AEW decided to put their show on the same day as NXT?


Thought you were joking - nxt dropped on network on wed but everyone watched whenever. Not even live then


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Thought you were joking - nxt dropped on network on wed but everyone watched whenever. Not even live then


Still not answering the question, Pippen.. It still drops on the network the next day or something doesn't it? I wonder if that's taken into account by fans who care about ratings. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say it actually


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Still not answering the question, Pippen.. It still drops on the network the next day or something doesn't it? I wonder if that's taken into account by fans who care about ratings. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say it actually


Think I answered your question now you're asking another. My answer; I don't care - it's a problem for nxt


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> something.... a little birdie.... called the stock price....
> 
> tells me WWE won’t be signing massive long term contracts for long
> 
> edit> for those that don’t know, WWE‘s stock took a massive beating and they fired two co-presidents effective immediately


If they want to keep doing that to keep talent away from the competition they will keep doing it. Stock price doesn't affect the day to day operation of most companies especially one with high cash flow like WWE. It's the shareholders losing value, predominantly McMahon. So if he feels it's best for the future he's going to keep doing it.


----------



## Jonhern

optikk sucks said:


> it reached $100usd around wrestlemania time.
> 
> i'm gonna double my money by april.


Because of the announcement of the new tv deals that's when it hit $100. They are not getting back up to that just because of wrestlemania. It will be a small bump if anything.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> To say nxt was not moved to USA to oppose aew may be the most ignorant thing written here - even from a troll.
> USA aren't paying 300 million for nxt


I didn't say that NXT wasn't moved to USA to "oppose" AEW (AEW chose the NXT night, so "oppose" is a really weird and biased word to use). Nice try. I said it wasn't sent there with the expectation to stomp it out. Those are two very different things. I say one thing and you stretch it to mean another to make your points look better. That's the definition of a straw-man argument. 



Seafort said:


> What makes you think that WWE wouldn’t simply move NXT to whatever night that AEW is at? Or even worse, get USA to put NXT UK up against it?
> 
> AEW find itself in a similar situation to WWE at the height of the Monday Night War. The WWF toyed with the idea of moving RAW, but likely knew that it was futile due to the impending arrival of Thunder. WCW was not going to give them any breathing room, and I would not expect WWE to give a well funded competitor any breathing room either.


I wouldn't put it past WWE to move NXT to the same night as AEW, but I don't think they would, because then they would lose the Wednesday slot they would be winning, which would be prime real estate. And the image of AEW being moved would be enough of a win for WWE. If they went after them harder, it might look "nasty," and that would potentially put fans on AEW's side again. 

But I wouldn't put it past WWE for another show to crop up on, say, Tuesday nights, should that be the new home of Dynamite...



Pippen94 said:


> Why would wwe run show in opposition other than to cut audience & have show disappear?


You are getting step one, confirming it, then assuming it proves step two and three and therefore your conclusion. Having a show there in the time-slot is absolutely deliberate. No one is saying that it's not. It just so happens NXT was actually there first, just not on cable, but okay. But you can't take "they are airing the same time as them" to mean "they expect them to disappear in a month." TNT was paying relatively cheap to have it for two years and the Khans have billions of dollars. No one thinks this is the plan other than you. Even Meltzer and the AEW guys have the humility to suggest that it was just to prevent a giant TV deal. 

Which it did. Meltzer says WWE failed, but $45 million is not that much money. It's probably not enough to lure any top talent, because the company isn't _that_ secure. There are always ways out of airing something you don't want to air and WCW has lost more money than that in a year. It's arguably salary capped them if AEW is supposed to run off its own fumes. And I still maintain that the $45 million in rights fees is probably a lot closer to the production costs that TNT were already paying for than the AEW side is telling Dave. That's just my speculation.

If WWE really wanted AEW gone, NXT would have opened with a Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet match and ended with a Daniel Bryan/Shawn Michaels confrontation. The Rock would have a recorded a comedy bit about the AEW EVPs and called Tony Khan a money mark that owns the absolute suckiest sports teams on the planet on NXT TV and shrivelled up everyone on that side's balls. He was on SmackDown that week and could have filmed it for NXT that following week. 

WWE has not gone as hard after AEW as people think or realize they can. They barely promote NXT on WWE TV most of the time. They want to establish this brand as its own thing. This does not merely exist because WWE are petty. They may or may not be petty, but that's just not the reason. 

And as I like to point out: This gave WWE the impetus to get NXT on WWE TV and generate $30-$50 million out of that (depending on who you ask). If it's the higher end, AEW made more money for WWE than they've made for themselves. 



Pippen94 said:


> Aew #3 last night nxt #37 in ratings - only one will moving or disappearing soon


Except NXT is part of a package that includes a show that keeps them on the fucking board in the first place, and AEW is going to fizzle whereas NXT is going to heat up. I think NXT has got two years left in their deal, which I can imagine is much more difficult and awkward for USA to get out of than the TNT/AEW, given what stakes are in the WWE/NBC Universal relationship and how experienced they are drafting up TV contracts. 

And I don't think NXT even need to be beating AEW before someone at TNT has the bright idea of moving it, as I've suggested in the past. TV networks do zany shit like this all the time. You can just imagine a suit thinking it would do _even better_ on Tuesdays, moved back for NBA games, and maybe even going later because the AEW fans are so loyal and will follow it. But it will be interesting to see what happens when NXT starts to make their comeback.


----------



## bdon

The TV execs randomly choosing to change the time slot for no other fucking reason than overthinking it is absolutely a cause for concern. That shit definitely happens and is one area where NXT has the upperhand, that built-in goodwill of the WWE/USA relationship.

We’ll see how it goes, because the minute the execs get the bright idea to start changing time slots thinking it’ll make it even better is the minute they cut AEW’s legs out from under them.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> The TV execs randomly choosing to change the time slot for no other fucking reason than overthinking it is absolutely a cause for concern. That shit definitely happens and is one area where NXT has the upperhand, that built-in goodwill of the WWE/USA relationship.
> 
> We’ll see how it goes, because the minute the execs get the bright idea to start changing time slots thinking it’ll make it even better is the minute they cut AEW’s legs out from under them.


Yeah, especially the zany ideas network execs get about wrestling, wrestling fans, demographics and the like. If they think they have a brilliant idea to increase their ratings or boost another time-slot, that shit can be hazardous.


----------



## ModernDayWarrior

MrThortan said:


> Real Housewives of NJ being that popular worries me about humanity's future. _cringe_


Hannity getting more viewers than Tucker Carlson Tonight gives me the same feeling.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Think I answered your question now you're asking another. My answer; I don't care - it's a problem for nxt


You're the one who complained about it in the first place, Pippen.. Jesus Chris


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I didn't say that NXT wasn't moved to USA to "oppose" AEW (AEW chose the NXT night, so "oppose" is a really weird and biased word to use). Nice try. I said it wasn't sent there with the expectation to stomp it out. Those are two very different things. I say one thing and you stretch it to mean another to make your points look better. That's the definition of a straw-man argument.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't put it past WWE to move NXT to the same night as AEW, but I don't think they would, because then they would lose the Wednesday slot they would be winning, which would be prime real estate. And the image of AEW being moved would be enough of a win for WWE. If they went after them harder, it might look "nasty," and that would potentially put fans on AEW's side again.
> 
> But I wouldn't put it past WWE for another show to crop up on, say, Tuesday nights, should that be the new home of Dynamite...
> 
> 
> 
> You are getting step one, confirming it, then assuming it proves step two and three and therefore your conclusion. Having a show there in the time-slot is absolutely deliberate. No one is saying that it's not. It just so happens NXT was actually there first, just not on cable, but okay. But you can't take "they are airing the same time as them" to mean "they expect them to disappear in a month." TNT was paying relatively cheap to have it for two years and the Khans have billions of dollars. No one thinks this is the plan other than you. Even Meltzer and the AEW guys have the humility to suggest that it was just to prevent a giant TV deal.
> 
> Which it did. Meltzer says WWE failed, but $45 million is not that much money. It's probably not enough to lure any top talent, because the company isn't _that_ secure. There are always ways out of airing something you don't want to air and WCW has lost more money than that in a year. It's arguably salary capped them if AEW is supposed to run off its own fumes. And I still maintain that the $45 million in rights fees is probably a lot closer to the production costs that TNT were already paying for than the AEW side is telling Dave. That's just my speculation.
> 
> If WWE really wanted AEW gone, NXT would have opened with a Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet match and ended with a Daniel Bryan/Shawn Michaels confrontation. The Rock would have a recorded a comedy bit about the AEW EVPs and called Tony Khan a money mark that owns the absolute suckiest sports teams on the planet on NXT TV and shrivelled up everyone on that side's balls. He was on SmackDown that week and could have filmed it for NXT that following week.
> 
> WWE has not gone as hard after AEW as people think or realize they can. They barely promote NXT on WWE TV most of the time. They want to establish this brand as its own thing. This does not merely exist because WWE are petty. They may or may not be petty, but that's just not the reason.
> 
> And as I like to point out: This gave WWE the impetus to get NXT on WWE TV and generate $30-$50 million out of that (depending on who you ask). If it's the higher end, AEW made more money for WWE than they've made for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Except NXT is part of a package that includes a show that keeps them on the fucking board in the first place, and AEW is going to fizzle whereas NXT is going to heat up. I think NXT has got two years left in their deal, which I can imagine is much more difficult and awkward for USA to get out of than the TNT/AEW, given what stakes are in the WWE/NBC Universal relationship and how experienced they are drafting up TV contracts.
> 
> And I don't think NXT even need to be beating AEW before someone at TNT has the bright idea of moving it, as I've suggested in the past. TV networks do zany shit like this all the time. You can just imagine a suit thinking it would do _even better_ on Tuesdays, moved back for NBA games, and maybe even going later because the AEW fans are so loyal and will follow it. But it will be interesting to see what happens when NXT starts to make their comeback.


Those bastards at aew sabotaging nxt on TV by announcing dynamite on Wednesday FIRST.
Then uncutting evolve with fight for fallen FIRST
Then hurt an nxt takeover with all out announced FIRST.
Only time aew fucked with nxt is in ratings including this week again.

Predicting an nxt comeback is pretty bold, but hey you got to make up for prediction aew would be dead already.
Nxt badly needs younger viewers - maybe you should tell your friends to get their kids to watch it.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Those bastards at aew sabotaging nxt on TV by announcing dynamite on Wednesday FIRST.
> Then uncutting evolve with fight for fallen FIRST
> Then hurt an nxt takeover with all out announced FIRST.
> Only time aew fucked with nxt is in ratings including this week again.
> 
> Predicting an nxt comeback is pretty bold, but hey you got to make up for prediction aew would be dead already.
> Nxt badly needs younger viewers - maybe you should tell your friends to get their kids to watch it.


Of course you're going to run opposition to their shows. Why do you think anyone is saying anything other than that? Even then pro-AEW people were calling out Omega for having a whinge because they were doing EVOLVE on the same day. Of course, mate. You started up a rival wrestling promotion. Which they did FIRST, by the way. ;-)

And NXT was always on Wednesdays. I don't see why you don't get that simple point. 

I didn't predict that AEW would be dead already. Again, you are lying. But that's par for the course at this stage. 

NXT doesn't _need_ younger viewers. That would be good, but their numbers are fine. Just like AEW's are fine (for now). I'm sure plenty of young people watch on the WWE Network, since it is probably easier than clogging up their parents' DVR, or they may not even have a DVR. 

I do think it's cute that AEW fanboys think that AEW is just such a more popular and endearing product to younger fans, like NXT doesn't appeal to, hmm, _largely the same wrestling nerd audience_.


----------



## Dark Emperor

This NXT vs AEW debate is tiresome. I don't think AEW fans should really be looking at NXT numbers and seeing that as a sign of success.

You need to look at the figures in isolation. AEW started the year with a bang rating wise with first two weeks getting well over 900k and closing in on 1m. It seemed like they were on an upwards curve.
But last two weeks (especially this week) with no major competition, there are well under 850k, so getting further away from the 1m. So its not really a reason to celebrate.

NXT numbers aren't great and i'm sure WWE wont be happy with it. But the difference is they have RAW and Smackdown making crazy money and doing decent numbers. RAW beat everything else on cable this Monday.


----------



## LongPig666

Cult03 said:


> NXT was already on Wednesday. AEW chose to run their show in opposition to NXT, not the other way around. Do you guys honestly think WWE would just go, "they're going up against a live wrestling show now. Good business would be to let them take over our spot". No, don't be fucking dumb. What were they supposed to do? Change days because your precious AEW can't take competition? They moved to USA to save themselves because that's what businesses do, they change or evolve.


This is "Russian Troll Factory" level posting here!


----------



## fulcizombie

Being n.3 in the critical demo is fantastic. And people thought that TNT would cancel it, lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Haha! There is a rumour we’ll be finding out in the Q report that USA is paying ZERO dollars for NXT

which will forever prove the blatant counter programming

its all over Twitter at the moment - which also gives an indication why none of the NXT talent received pay rises while being on TV


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> If they want to keep doing that to keep talent away from the competition they will keep doing it. Stock price doesn't affect the day to day operation of most companies especially one with high cash flow like WWE. It's the shareholders losing value, predominantly McMahon. So if he feels it's best for the future he's going to keep doing it.


5 year contracts for talents is not about day to day cash flow, it has everything to do with long term income projections and the solvency / bottom-line of a company, which directly has everything to do with the stock price


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 5 year contracts for talents is not about day to day cash flow, it has everything to do with long term income projections and the solvency / bottom-line of a company, which directly has everything to do with the stock price


Their tv contracts are for 5 years, which is why these contracts are running 5 years. when the new ones come in, if they are significantly lower they won't be able to continue to give out what they are now, but in the meantime, they certainly can. And it's not as if they will get nothing in 5 years. Also, they are not paying brock level contracts to every tom, dick and harry. They are making 3 times more tv revenue, they are not giving every wrestler 3 times more money. The stock price is reacting to the potential for future growth as all indicators but tv rights fees look poor. WWE is not going away because the stock falls to $10 again like it used to be, because they don't take out a lot of debt as it is. If they needed it they would have issued more stock when it was at its high. But they didn't because they have good cash flow and no major projects that we know of where they would have to invest capital in, like when they launched the network. In five years who knows what happens, but they won't become insolvent unless some existential crises happen, like a major scandal involving Vince that makes the company toxic to any network. But even if they have to have major layoffs, as they are somewhat bloated, the much higher amount of production staff they have vs say AEW is very noticeable if you have been to both shows, WWE will continue well into this decade regardless of the performance of the stock.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> Their tv contracts are for 5 years, which is why these contracts are running 5 years. when the new ones come in, if they are significantly lower they won't be able to continue to give out what they are now, but in the meantime, they certainly can. And it's not as if they will get nothing in 5 years. Also, they are not paying brock level contracts to every tom, dick and harry. They are making 3 times more tv revenue, they are not giving every wrestler 3 times more money. The stock price is reacting to the potential for future growth as all indicators but tv rights fees look poor. WWE is not going away because the stock falls to $10 again like it used to be, because they don't take out a lot of debt as it is. If they needed it they would have issued more stock when it was at its high. But they didn't because they have good cash flow and no major projects that we know of where they would have to invest capital in, like when they launched the network. In five years who knows what happens, but they won't become insolvent unless some existential crises happen, like a major scandal involving Vince that makes the company toxic to any network. But even if they have to have major layoffs, as they are somewhat bloated, the much higher amount of production staff they have vs say AEW is very noticeable if you have been to both shows, WWE will continue well into this decade regardless of the performance of the stock.


you misunderstood my original point

I was trying to say, because of all this - i don’t expect WWE to sign EVERYBODY and their cousin to ‘sit-at-home / hardly used’ 5 year deals anymore. Ryder, Hawkins, Revival, Breeze - those guys aren’t getting massive, big money extensions anymore just to keep them out of AEW, NJPW or Indie hands

we most likely have seen the end of this with Orton, Edge being the last ones getting these massive deals. (and likely Brock / Becky). But this might open the door for a Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, Alexa Bliss, Nakamura to look elsewhere

WWE can’t afford to hoard 1000 unused talents any more

but they will still be alive, kicking and solvent for years to come - no doubt there. But the landscape is changing

ps> put some paragraphs mate - that shit‘s hard to read


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Haha! There is a rumour we’ll be finding out in the Q report that USA is paying ZERO dollars for NXT
> 
> which will forever prove the blatant counter programming
> 
> its all over Twitter at the moment - which also gives an indication why none of the NXT talent received pay rises while being on TV


Who's the source of the rumor?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Who's the source of the rumor?


i’ve traced it back to Wrestle economics, who is usually spot on - especially with wwe business and wrestling voices, who seems legit more often than not


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223120124460187650


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve traced it back to Wrestle economics, who is usually spot on - especially with wwe business and wrestling voices, who seems legit more often than not
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223120124460187650


We'll see I guess, but that seems kind of far-fetched given Meltzer and numerous others reported NXT was going to get them money.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve traced it back to Wrestle economics, who is usually spot on - especially with wwe business and wrestling voices, who seems legit more often than not
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1223120124460187650


looks like i won't be buying stock today in that case.

looking forward to shares being $30 next Thursday!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> We'll see I guess, but that seems kind of far-fetched given Meltzer and numerous others reported NXT was going to get them money.


personally I can’t see them getting zero - it would just be funny if true

but USA is getting less in the key demo now than what they had prior - so, I am doubting if the 30m (if true) will hold

today’s WWE earning report will be interesting, especially since they opened at a record low of 45 USD, which is a 21% drop


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> looks like i won't be buying stock today in that case.
> 
> looking forward to shares being $30 next Thursday!


yeah mate - i was thinking its a bit early

the earning report today is going to be a bloodbath

you’ll get 30 next week / or close to it for sure

unless Vince pulls some magic out his ass


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Dark Emperor said:


> This NXT vs AEW debate is tiresome. I don't think AEW fans should really be looking at NXT numbers and seeing that as a sign of success.
> 
> You need to look at the figures in isolation. AEW started the year with a bang rating wise with first two weeks getting well over 900k and closing in on 1m. It seemed like they were on an upwards curve.
> But last two weeks (especially this week) with no major competition, there are well under 850k, so getting further away from the 1m. So its not really a reason to celebrate.
> 
> NXT numbers aren't great and i'm sure WWE wont be happy with it. But the difference is they have RAW and Smackdown making crazy money and doing decent numbers. RAW beat everything else on cable this Monday.


Sorry, but wrong. In this business it’s ALL about the competition — and I mean all the competition, not just other wrestling programming. If you’re going to do a fair evaluation of AEW’s performance, you need to look at the whole picture.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah mate - i was thinking its a bit early
> 
> the earning report today is going to be a bloodbath
> 
> you’ll get 30 next week / or close to it for sure
> 
> unless Vince pulls some magic out his ass


It looks like they may only have a few things up their sleeve
1. Fox and USA contracts - but investors are already aware of this, i dont think it'll affect share price significantly
2. ratings have not dropped any more significantly and RAW is consistently top 1 in target demographic
3. q1 subscriptions may be slightly up if you look at past trends
4. Saudi contract


What have merch/ticket sales been like? Last quarter they reported these all to be down.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you misunderstood my original point
> 
> I was trying to say, because of all this - i don’t expect WWE to sign EVERYBODY and their cousin to ‘sit-at-home / hardly used’ 5 year deals anymore. Ryder, Hawkins, Revival, Breeze - those guys aren’t getting massive, big money extensions anymore just to keep them out of AEW, NJPW or Indie hands
> 
> we most likely have seen the end of this with Orton, Edge being the last ones getting these massive deals. (and likely Brock / Becky). But this might open the door for a Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, Alexa Bliss, Nakamura to look elsewhere
> 
> WWE can’t afford to hoard 1000 unused talents any more
> 
> but they will still be alive, kicking and solvent for years to come - no doubt there. But the landscape is changing
> 
> ps> put some paragraphs mate - that shit‘s hard to read


I know what you are saying, and I am saying if Vince wants to do it he will continue to do it because they actually can afford it in the near term. Just think of this, they said they fired the two presidents because they did not have the same strategic vision. That “difference in strategic direction” could very well be Barrios & Wilson not wanting to fight a "Wrestling War" and focus on the business and not do what you say, hoard all this talent to keep them away from AEW. Vince, on the other hand, wants to fight no holds bard and pushed them out because they were not cutthroat enough for his liking.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> personally I can’t see them getting zero - it would just be funny if true
> 
> but USA is getting less in the key demo now than what they had prior - so, I am doubting if the 30m (if true) will hold
> 
> today’s WWE earning report will be interesting, especially since they opened at a record low of 45 USD, which is a 21% drop


If USA wanted them on another night and Vince was deadset on them being on Wednesday to counter AEW, I could see them getting nothing honestly. It's really not in the network's best interest to counter AEW when wrestling is a niche product to begin with.

Remember fox was reported to be in negotiation for the show as well, they likely didn't want to do it on Wednesday, USA was willing to and that could have changed the dynamic.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> personally I can’t see them getting zero - it would just be funny if true
> 
> but USA is getting less in the key demo now than what they had prior - so, I am doubting if the 30m (if true) will hold
> 
> today’s WWE earning report will be interesting, especially since they opened at a record low of 45 USD, which is a 21% drop


$45 is not a record low for WWE shares ,wtf. It not even the lowest its been over the past yr. They were trading at $13 under 5years ago. WWE stock has been on an upcurve for ages and loads of people made money.

This kind of shocking news always brings stocks down significantly as investors always panic when shocks happen. However, its rarely the case the shares keep falling and most of the time, it recovers most of the losses when everything has calmed down.

Just check the share price next week and see if its still $45.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> $45 is not a record low for WWE shares ,wtf. It not even the lowest its been over the past yr.


Yes it is LOL. year low was previously $52.69


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah mate - i was thinking its a bit early
> 
> the earning report today is going to be a bloodbath
> 
> you’ll get 30 next week / or close to it for sure
> 
> unless Vince pulls some magic out his ass


Lmao, you're really talking out of your ass.

This is the first quarter where the Fox deal and improved Raw deal will be in the numbers. Also include any potential income from NXT.

So chances are income will be up significantly and profits up too. Bloodbath lmao.


----------



## Dark Emperor

optikk sucks said:


> Yes it is LOL. year low was previously $52.69


Sorry you're right on that one, my graph was showing 2yr timescale. It jumped up a lot just over a yr ago with the news of Fox & Raw deals.

But it's common sense why this has happened. You don't shock the market so it'll be interesting to see the reason behind them doing this. I hope it's not just a disagreement and Vince lost his cool haha.


----------



## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> Lmao, you're really talking out of your ass.
> 
> This is the first quarter where the Fox deal and improved Raw deal will be in the numbers. Also include any potential income from NXT.
> 
> So chances are income will be up significantly and profits up too. Bloodbath lmao.


It's not a bloodbath, the problem is income appears to not be up as much as wall street expected and former WWE projections. Wall Street expected 186 million revenue, WWE revised that down to about 180 million. So that means other parts of the business are not doing so great.


----------



## Jonhern

optikk sucks said:


> Yes it is LOL. year low was previously $52.69


yes, but he was saying it was not a record low as the other person said, the record low is in the $7 range.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> Sorry you're right on that one, my graph was showing 2yr timescale. It jumped up a lot just over a yr ago with the news of Fox & Raw deals.
> 
> But it's common sense why this has happened. You don't shock the market so it'll be interesting to see the reason behind them doing this. I hope it's not just a disagreement and Vince lost his cool haha.


The quarterly report will be bad. But to try and counteract the report, he’s fired these 2 people and can say that they are the reason for the bad report. Same way he fired Bischoff. But investors are not dumb.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jonhern said:


> yes, but he was saying it was not a record low as the other person said, the record low is in the $7 range.


That is when they went public. Technically it is a record low, but can you really truly consider it as a record low if you use common sense?
it is undeniably a record low for their level of current operations.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jonhern said:


> It's not a bloodbath, the problem is income appears to not be up as much as wall street expected and former WWE projections. Wall Street expected 186 million revenue, WWE revised that down to about 180 million. So that means other parts of the business are not doing so great.


Yeah its not great, but just $6m down compared to expected? Thats not a lot. Those two he let go alone were earning $9m a year between them excluding bonuses.

Thats also like half of Lesnars reported contract. Certainly not a reason to go down 25% except for the shock of the firings. I wish i could invest right now and make some easy money over the next few months.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> I know what you are saying, and I am saying if Vince wants to do it he will continue to do it because they actually can afford it in the near term. Just think of this, they said they fired the two presidents because they did not have the same strategic vision. That “difference in strategic direction” could very well be Barrios & Wilson not wanting to fight a "Wrestling War" and focus on the business and not do what you say, hoard all this talent to keep them away from AEW. Vince, on the other hand, wants to fight no holds bard and pushed them out because they were not cutthroat enough for his liking.


which, in turn, will affect the future share price to the negative

its a viscous circle

i get what you’re saying though - Vince will persist in the near term


----------



## Dark Emperor

optikk sucks said:


> The quarterly report will be bad. But to try and counteract the report, he’s fired these 2 people and can say that they are the reason for the bad report. Same way he fired Bischoff. But investors are not dumb.


Hmm i dont know, they've been there a long time so it must be deeper reasons than that. Anyway it'll all come out soon. For all we know, theyve managed to snap up someone better than those two.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> $45 is not a record low for WWE shares ,wtf. It not even the lowest its been over the past yr. They were trading at $13 under 5years ago. WWE stock has been on an upcurve for ages and loads of people made money.
> 
> This kind of shocking news always brings stocks down significantly as investors always panic when shocks happen. However, its rarely the case the shares keep falling and most of the time, it recovers most of the losses when everything has calmed down.
> 
> Just check the share price next week and see if its still $45.


Record low for the last 12 months

before it was 52

’record low‘ is a pretty broad term anyway, something can be a ‘record low for the month’ - that wasn’t really the point of the post


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Lmao, you're really talking out of your ass.
> 
> This is the first quarter where the Fox deal and improved Raw deal will be in the numbers. Also include any potential income from NXT.
> 
> So chances are income will be up significantly and profits up too. Bloodbath lmao.


except i think they’ve accrued more of the forecasted saudi and fox money into last Qs forecast and said as much in that thread 3 months ago

in the end, i’m just speculating and shooting the shit

but firing your CFO and the people widely regarded as getting you the tv deals and then posting less than expected rev / obit will be a bloodbath in share terms

it already is mate - (-21%) is not a fucking walk in the park, is it?

edit> but hey, prove me wrong - take a punt at 48 if you think its safe ?‍♂ - literal ‘money where your mouth is’ - you’d be a braver man than me. Now, at 35, there‘s money to be made  (IMO)


----------



## MoxAsylum

Wednesday’s AEW show was atrocious.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Record low for the last 12 months
> 
> before it was 52
> 
> ’record low‘ is a pretty broad term anyway, something can be a ‘record low for the month’ - that wasn’t really the point of the post


Fair enough. But using words like 'record low' (obviously factually incorrect) & bloodbath (without actually seeing the quarterly numbers yet) just makes you seem like a hater.

Also if you know anything about markets, you'd know this stuff is common. Netflix shares to a big dip when Disney+ was announced. Then another one when they posted stagnated subscriber number last yr. But since then, its been back on way up as core numbers haven't changed much and not looking like doing so in long term. 

My point is, most massive dips are always due to market shocks rather than some kind of long term thinking.


----------



## Dark Emperor

I actually forgot this was the AEW section! Shouldn't we be discussing this is WWE bit. 

I'm sure AEW would love to have problems such as only making $180m revenue instead on $186m in the quietest period for wrestling (Oct-Dec).


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> except i think they’ve accrued more of the forecasted saudi and fox money into last Qs forecast and said as much in that thread 3 months ago
> 
> in the end, i’m just speculating and shooting the shit
> 
> but firing your CFO and the people widely regarded as getting you the tv deals and then posting less than expected rev / obit will be a bloodbath in share terms
> 
> it already is mate - (-21%) is not a fucking walk in the park, is it?
> 
> edit> but hey, prove me wrong - take a punt at 48 if you think its safe ?‍♂ - literal ‘money where your mouth is’ - you’d be a braver man than me. Now, at 35, there‘s money to be made  (IMO)


Bro, i would love to. But i only started investing 6months ago. The smart money is to start with funds which incorporates lots of market and bonds so diversifies and protects you from any market shocks (such as this WWE news). I've got a lot of money in that.

With individual shares like WWE, yes i expect it to rise. But just one event can cause it to get even lower. E.g A major star does a Benoit or Vince dies etc. So its not about having big balls and proving a point to internet people... I love money and i wouldnt even invest a massive chunk in Apple on its own right now. A sudden recession could bring them all tumbling down overnight.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Fair enough. But using words like 'record low' (obviously factually incorrect) & bloodbath (without actually seeing the quarterly numbers yet) *just makes you seem like a hater.*
> 
> Also if you know anything about markets, you'd know this stuff is common. Netflix shares to a big dip when Disney+ was announced. Then another one when they posted stagnated subscriber number last yr. But since then, its been back on way up as core numbers haven't changed much and not looking like doing so in long term.
> 
> My point is, most massive dips are always due to market shocks rather than some kind of long term thinking.


how could i hate WWE? Literally all of us grew up with it.

do i hate their monolopy practices and hoarding talent? Sure. Do I think that is bad business strategy? Sure. Do i ever hope they fold, go out of business or shrink significantly? Fuck no, that’ll be dumb

but record low and bloodbath is IMO perfect hyperbole to describe firing 2 execs before an earnings report after you have signed various talents to 5 year deals and tried to counter-program you biggest competition at a potential loss

and i know markets fluctuate wildly mate - obviously I do. But you have to think about the ‘good stories to tell’ in order to recover share price.

what is the story here? Fox money, reported. Saudi money, reported. Anything else? No... only house show numbers down, merch down, talent costs up and so on and so on. Which is why i think recovery will be harder

that is all. But they will recover. They always do ?‍♂


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> I'm sure AEW would love to have problems such as only making $180m revenue instead on $186m in the quietest period for wrestling (Oct-Dec).


incomparable. Different size of operation, being private etc. Being private, they can afford to take the hit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> I actually forgot this was the AEW section! Shouldn't we be discussing this is WWE bit.
> 
> I'm sure AEW would love to have problems such as only making $180m revenue instead on $186m in the quietest period for wrestling (Oct-Dec).


It started because of the zero $ for NXT rumour - which has a direct relation to AEW

but no reason to keep discussing here


----------



## Seafort

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you misunderstood my original point
> 
> I was trying to say, because of all this - i don’t expect WWE to sign EVERYBODY and their cousin to ‘sit-at-home / hardly used’ 5 year deals anymore. Ryder, Hawkins, Revival, Breeze - those guys aren’t getting massive, big money extensions anymore just to keep them out of AEW, NJPW or Indie hands
> 
> we most likely have seen the end of this with Orton, Edge being the last ones getting these massive deals. (and likely Brock / Becky). But this might open the door for a Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, Alexa Bliss, Nakamura to look elsewhere
> 
> WWE can’t afford to hoard 1000 unused talents any more
> 
> but they will still be alive, kicking and solvent for years to come - no doubt there. But the landscape is changing
> 
> ps> put some paragraphs mate - that shit‘s hard to read


I don’t see why they cannot. Those TV deals added tens of millions of pure profit. I could see a number of WCW Lanny Poffo / Kevin Walzowz situations playing out.


----------



## Aedubya

So is that 4 weeks in a row AEW has won the "war" or is it 5?


----------



## Jonhern

optikk sucks said:


> That is when they went public. Technically it is a record low, but can you really truly consider it as a record low if you use common sense?
> it is undeniably a record low for their level of current operations.


They went public in 1999 at $32 (about $50 a share adjusted for inflation), their record low was in 2002 at $6.85. Yes a long time ago, but they were around $7 a share also as recently as 2012. They are nowhere near their record low. If you don't mean record low, then say 52 week low, because that is what you are referring to if you are want to talk about current operations, not record low.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Seafort said:


> I don’t see why they cannot. Those TV deals added tens of millions of pure profit. I could see a number of WCW Lanny Poffo / Kevin Walzowz situations playing out.


Agreed, as @Jonhern pointed out - Vince will persist ?‍♂


----------



## The Wood

Dark Emperor said:


> This NXT vs AEW debate is tiresome. I don't think AEW fans should really be looking at NXT numbers and seeing that as a sign of success.
> 
> You need to look at the figures in isolation. AEW started the year with a bang rating wise with first two weeks getting well over 900k and closing in on 1m. It seemed like they were on an upwards curve.
> But last two weeks (especially this week) with no major competition, there are well under 850k, so getting further away from the 1m. So its not really a reason to celebrate.
> 
> NXT numbers aren't great and i'm sure WWE wont be happy with it. But the difference is they have RAW and Smackdown making crazy money and doing decent numbers. RAW beat everything else on cable this Monday.


I agree with your overall point, but I don't think you can look at ratings in isolation. You need to be compare them to what else is out there. They need context. AEW does better than most things -- other than news, real sports, hit entertainment and other wrestling. 



LongPig666 said:


> This is "Russian Troll Factory" level posting here!


Nothing in there is incorrect. :-|



LifeInCattleClass said:


> you misunderstood my original point
> 
> I was trying to say, because of all this - i don’t expect WWE to sign EVERYBODY and their cousin to ‘sit-at-home / hardly used’ 5 year deals anymore. Ryder, Hawkins, Revival, Breeze - those guys aren’t getting massive, big money extensions anymore just to keep them out of AEW, NJPW or Indie hands
> 
> we most likely have seen the end of this with Orton, Edge being the last ones getting these massive deals. (and likely Brock / Becky). But this might open the door for a Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, Alexa Bliss, Nakamura to look elsewhere
> 
> WWE can’t afford to hoard 1000 unused talents any more
> 
> but they will still be alive, kicking and solvent for years to come - no doubt there. But the landscape is changing
> 
> ps> put some paragraphs mate - that shit‘s hard to read


Talkin' out your ass, mate. 



RapShepard said:


> Who's the source of the rumor?


Pretty reliable ones, actually. That seems like a very weird deal for WWE to make. They had a long time to get NXT on the air. My inkling tells me that if there is any truth to this rumor, it is that WWE are making $0 _profit_ off NXT. That is after production, talent is paid and the rest goes to cover the developmental deficit. That makes a lot more sense. 

WWE would have to know that the news about NXT would come out sooner or later, and firing Barrios and Wilson just prior to the report seems like a very weird decision. And making $550 million in TV revenue as opposed to $600 million in TV revenue is what it is. Nothing to "laugh" about. 

WWE just signed a new deal to get NXT broadcast in Australia. I'm sure they didn't feel the need to do that for free with the WWE Network readily available. Pretty sure AEW is still on an app over here. So to say NXT is getting $0 would have to be, logically, factually incorrect. It just depends on what USA is paying for it. 



optikk sucks said:


> That is when they went public. Technically it is a record low, but can you really truly consider it as a record low if you use common sense?
> it is undeniably a record low for their level of current operations.


A record low is your lowest low on record. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Record low for the last 12 months
> 
> before it was 52
> 
> ’record low‘ is a pretty broad term anyway, something can be a ‘record low for the month’ - that wasn’t really the point of the post


No it's not.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> No it's not.


i’ve decided it is


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve decided it is


This is a record low moment for the English language.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> This is a record low moment for the English language.


I’m living my own truth


----------



## bdon

So, $0 is just “profit”. 

$45m is just “cost for production”.

The spin you give things, man.


----------



## P Thriller

I feel like I'm living in some sort of alternate universe. I've been watching wrestling for 25 years now. I feel like I know good wrestling. I watch NXT and enjoy it almost all the time and when I tuned into AEW, I find myself mildly entertained half the time and cringing at its stupidity the other half of the time. Yet more people watch AEW every week so it is making me insecure as a wrestling fan like everyone knows something I don't.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I agree with your overall point, but I don't think you can look at ratings in isolation. You need to be compare them to what else is out there. They need context. AEW does better than most things -- other than news, real sports, hit entertainment and other wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in there is incorrect. :-|
> 
> 
> 
> Talkin' out your ass, mate.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty reliable ones, actually. That seems like a very weird deal for WWE to make. They had a long time to get NXT on the air. My inkling tells me that if there is any truth to this rumor, it is that WWE are making $0 _profit_ off NXT. That is after production, talent is paid and the rest goes to cover the developmental deficit. That makes a lot more sense.
> 
> WWE would have to know that the news about NXT would come out sooner or later, and firing Barrios and Wilson just prior to the report seems like a very weird decision. And making $550 million in TV revenue as opposed to $600 million in TV revenue is what it is. Nothing to "laugh" about.
> 
> WWE just signed a new deal to get NXT broadcast in Australia. I'm sure they didn't feel the need to do that for free with the WWE Network readily available. Pretty sure AEW is still on an app over here. So to say NXT is getting $0 would have to be, logically, factually incorrect. It just depends on what USA is paying for it.
> 
> 
> 
> A record low is your lowest low on record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.


Ha ha the back tracking!! Less than 12 hours ago you said wwe found another revenue stream & that nxt more than paid for it self. If there was any doubt you don't talk out of your ass it's gone


----------



## imthegame19

We should find out highest rated segment for this week show tomorrow or Sunday.


----------



## RiverFenix

I enjoyed NXT and probably still would if I watched - but I don't have the time to give 7 hours of wwe programming a week. NXT was mostly a stand alone until AEW came about - and only one hour. Now the great idea was to intertwine angles with the main roster so you can't just watch the two hours of NXT.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> So, $0 is just “profit”.
> 
> $45m is just “cost for production”.
> 
> The spin you give things, man.


It is what it is. We don't know yet. If USA is literally paying them $0, then that means the production is coming from WWE, which makes it an expense. I'd be genuinely surprised if that is the case though. I'm more inclined to think that they get paid, but there's $0 profit (or even still a deficit with the Performance Center) when it is all said and done. 

There's no spin on things. I just find it odd that WWE would take a USA Network slot without getting a single penny for it. I mean, it seems shady even from NBC Universal's perspective. But if that turns out to be the case, then that's the case. Just means WWE wanted to go to air and were willing to accept no additional money to get their programming on basic cable at the same time as AEW.

And if it costs AEW $880k to produce a TV show, then, yes, $45 million would just be enough to cover production. That is what their original deal was for, right? Meltzer says it costs them less to produce a show, but that figure I got was from Raw five years ago. It's quite possible Meltzer asked The Bucks how much they spend to run a show, they could have said "Ah, about $500k" and Meltzer printed that number. IF the production is closer to the $1 million mark (which we don't know yet), then it's absolutely reasonable to point out that this deal was not actually for an increase in money at all. It's the same deal on a longer term. 

That's not spin.



P Thriller said:


> I feel like I'm living in some sort of alternate universe. I've been watching wrestling for 25 years now. I feel like I know good wrestling. I watch NXT and enjoy it almost all the time and when I tuned into AEW, I find myself mildly entertained half the time and cringing at its stupidity the other half of the time. Yet more people watch AEW every week so it is making me insecure as a wrestling fan like everyone knows something I don't.


It'll change, buddy. It's a lot of burnt-out WWE fans accepting anything else and going to war for it. They will cool and the product will cool. I get called a troll for saying that, but I've predicted by WrestleMania. 



Pippen94 said:


> Ha ha the back tracking!! Less than 12 hours ago you said wwe found another revenue stream & that nxt more than paid for it self. If there was any doubt you don't talk out of your ass it's gone


If they were getting paid $30-60 million for it then it was another revenue stream, you Garty. And that would more than cover the bases for what NXT costs. There's nothing "wrong" with saying that. I don't have access to the WWE's financial records until they make them public. I was going off public knowledge. The same public knowledge which, by the way, suggests that AEW is profitable and that their production only costs $500k a week. It could very well be wrong too. 



imthegame19 said:


> Lol I assume you are replying to the Wood. But yes his ridiculous negative spins and made up theories. Is exactly why large portion of this forum can't stand him and put him on ignore.
> 
> 
> At this point he knows what he's doing and doing it on purpose. Or he has to be very stupid. Which I don't think he's stupid. There's no way someone could have his spins and theories and not realize how bias they are being.
> 
> Fact is he's wrong and no matter how badly he wants to be right and spins things. It doesn't change that AEW is doing really well for a new company and making a profit already! While TNT is obviously very very happy or they don't extended them. So he can spin and make up stuff. About dirt sheet guys or AEW lying.
> 
> 
> TNT having opt outs in the contract and not happy or whatever. Or it's a bad look for AEW when long time WWE guys use them for leverage and stay. Or trying to put down everyone favorite AEW star in Moxley. Heck I don't even know what he's saying anymore. I can just piece things together by the replies to nobody.
> 
> 
> All I know his made up spins, theories and lies are just really sad. Someone making that much of a effort on a forum to push this negative spin is getting really pathetic. I don't mean to be a jerk but he's bringing it on himself. I think it would be best for him and the forum if he cuts the crap out. But at this point it feels like he's addicted to doing this and needs help.


* You don't know they are making a profit already. What were their start-up costs? When does the new deal kick in? How much does production cost? What are the other expenses? How much do talent get paid? Until you know the answers to all these questions, you just don't know what their financial situation is. 

* TNT may or may not be happy. Offering live entertainment $45 million per year for four years does not imply that one way or another. They may have been expecting giant ratings but are happy with getting a show that ranks highly in the yellow every week...for now and on the cheap. Happiness is a projection of AEW fans who think that business partners are always completely enamored with the results if they don't drop the other party with a DDT. TNT are *satisfied* with this agreed upon arrangement. If they offered them $100 million over four years? Yeah, I'd say they were extremely happy and confident. Paying them what might be the same amount of money as they were initially estimated to be on does _not_ mean what you think it means. 

* So you admit AEW were trying to get these guys and failed? Cool. We're getting somewhere. A nice change of pace from the "AEW didn't even _want_ them" narrative that a lot of people (including Meltzer) try to spin to make them look good. 

* Jon Moxley is overrated. I haven't liked him as Dean Ambrose since very early 2016 and I think he's a bit obnoxious doing a similar version of that gimmick as Moxley in AEW. He's not an atrocious worker and he can talk, although I find his promos leave a lot to be desired and fall into WWE cliche a lot of the time. Haven't seen him in New Japan, although I will be checking out his match with Suzuki. What's wrong with that analysis? 

* TNT probably do have an out in their contract. Meltzer has even said as much. So this idea that they at least get _security_ from the deal is a bit of a falsehood. That's all I meant. It's not to say the deal is bad considering what I think the quality of their product is. But people love to try and talk as if the USA Network and FOX are a few bad ratings away from kicking WWE off their networks or onto Fox Sports 1. Myself included, because I'm sure the networks have failsafes written into their contracts. How much experience do you think Tony Khan's lawyers have at drafting up TV contracts, and how much leverage do you think they have to say "You can't cancel us or move us to 2am!"?

* And there's the full Garty at the end. I need help. Yes. Poor me. It can't be that you don't have genuine replies to any of these points.


----------



## bdon

Bro, we all know that a Raw’s production is far higher than AEW’s. Look at the set. Far more staff in the back.

You give NXT and everything else leeway, and when you speak on AEW, everything is worded in a subtle way with negative connotations.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Bro, we all know that a Raw’s production is far higher than AEW’s. Look at the set. Far more staff in the back.
> 
> You give NXT and everything else leeway, and when you speak on AEW, everything is worded in a subtle way with negative connotations.


You don't know that at all. First of all, that number is from five years ago. AEW use pyro, don't they? We also don't know if they use the most cost efficient methods for things or the salaries of the people working there. They have a set like anyone else. You _guess_ they cost less.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

If NXT was on a different day I would start watching it again.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> So, $0 is just “profit”.
> 
> $45m is just “cost for production”.
> 
> The spin you give things, man.



Lol here's a Forbes article with another source besides Meltzer saying it cost 500,000 a show per week to produce Dynamite and AEW will be making additional 15 to 20 million per year.









TNT Renews AEW Dynamite Through 2023, Agrees To Add 2nd Show


All Elite Wrestling, the current top startup pro wrestling promotion, announced some very good news for themselves on Wednesday.




www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org






But yes they are all lies and spin by Meltzer and AEW. We can't believe they are profitable because there's no proof lol. The company isn't owned by billionaires who know how to run companies and make smart decisions or anything.


Not to mention they don't have some the best lawyers in the world or anything. So I'm sure TNT can pull a fast one and opt out of the deal at any time.


So basically all the reports of AEW being profitable are lies. They are idiots who signed four year deal without getting anymore money then they are already getting. With the tv money They are getting not even enough to cover the talent cost for their one day a week.


They sign contracts where networks can cancel the deal any point with AEW not getting a penny. It's crazy that those lawyers can negotiate deals for NFL team.


Yet allow TNT to rape them etc.While the network probably isn't really that happy with them. It's not like they are their highest rated shows or anything. They are fine keeping it on but it's not costing them anymore then they were paying already. While They can opt out of the deal anytime they want. So heck why not lock up these idiots running this wrestling company. Just in case they start doing respectable rating


Haha that's most desperate attempt at negative spin I ever saw in my life. There's no proof so everything must be lies and the made up spins must be true. Since the Wood doesn't like the show and rooting against. So he wants to live in his own alternative reality. If he wasn't so damn annoying with essays of nonsense. He would actually be funny to laugh at with these theories. In everyone of them everything positive is a lie. While people running AEW are always stupid making bad decisionsn and getting ripped off. Haha what a freaking agenda lol.


Now back to actual reality here. Another thing to consider about AEW tv deal. People can be like oh well after production cost it's only additional 15-20 million per year. So it's only 60-80 million of additional money.


Let's keep in mind though. TNT had AEW under contract for 20-21 and didn't have to give them more money those years. So really it's 60-80 million to get them extended for two more years in AEW eyes(since they are getting same tv ad revenue as before). With TNT betting on the fact they believe they would be able to get more per year then that after 2021. That something that needs to be factored in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> * They will cool and the product will cool.*


no it won’t, you’re wrong


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> You don't know that at all. First of all, that number is from five years ago. AEW use pyro, don't they? We also don't know if they use the most cost efficient methods for things or the salaries of the people working there. They have a set like anyone else. You _guess_ they cost less.


aew’s production was reported at 450 - 550 p/ episode - raw has been reported at 850 - 950


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Lol here's a Forbes article with another source besides Meltzer saying it cost 500,000 a show per week to produce Dynamite and AEW will be making additional 15 to 20 million per year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNT Renews AEW Dynamite Through 2023, Agrees To Add 2nd Show
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling, the current top startup pro wrestling promotion, announced some very good news for themselves on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yes they are all lies and spin by Meltzer and AEW. We can't believe they are profitable because there's no proof lol. The company isn't owned by billionaires who know how to run companies and make smart decisions or anything.
> 
> 
> Not to mention they don't have some the best lawyers in the world or anything. So I'm sure TNT can pull a fast one and opt out of the deal at any time.
> 
> 
> So basically all the reports of AEW being profitable are lies. They are idiots who signed four year deal without getting anymore money then they are already getting. With the tv money They are getting not even enough to cover the talent cost for their one day a week.
> 
> 
> They sign contracts where networks can cancel the deal any point with AEW not getting a penny. It's crazy that those lawyers can negotiate deals for NFL team.
> 
> 
> Yet allow TNT to rape them etc.While the network probably isn't really that happy with them. It's not like they are their highest rated shows or anything. They are fine keeping it on but it's not costing them anymore then they were paying already. While They can opt out of the deal anytime they want. So heck why not lock up these idiots running this wrestling company. Just in case they start doing respectable rating
> 
> 
> Haha that's most desperate attempt at negative spin I ever saw in my life. There's no proof so everything must be lies and the made up spins must be true. Since the Wood doesn't like the show and rooting against. So he wants to live in his own alternative reality. If he wasn't so damn annoying with essays of nonsense. He would actually be funny to laugh at with these theories. In everyone of them everything positive is a lie. While people running AEW are always stupid making bad decisionsn and getting ripped off. Haha what a freaking agenda lol.
> 
> 
> Now back to actual reality here. Another thing to consider about AEW tv deal. People can be like oh well after production cost it's only additional 15-20 million per year. So it's only 60-80 million of additional money.
> 
> 
> Let's keep in mind though. TNT had AEW under contract for 20-21 and didn't have to give them more money those years. So really it's 60-80 million to get them extended for two more years in AEW eyes(since they are getting same tv ad revenue as before). With TNT betting on the fact they believe they would be able to get more per year then that after 2021. That something that needs to be factored in.


Forbes is notoriously shit with their wrestling coverage. I saw an article recently where their story actually contradicted itself right in the middle and they linked to conflicting information in it. Fuck, what was it about? Maybe someone else knows? But it was hilariously amateurish. 

And where do you think they pluck it from? Meltzer. And who do you think he talks to? The same guys who told him that Orton didn’t get offered enough money, despite Tony Khan tweeting about Orton using t



LifeInCattleClass said:


> no it won’t, you’re wrong


We’ll see.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> aew’s production was reported at 450 - 550 p/ episode - raw has been reported at 850 - 950


Yes, I know that, but I’m just speculating that AEW gave Meltzer a conservative number. I’d rather use an established frame of reference.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yes, I know that, but I’m just speculating that AEW gave Meltzer a conservative number. I’d rather use an established frame of reference.


you speculate a lot and say very little


----------



## KingofKings1524

Man, I hope AEW comes to Oklahoma soon. Being at Smackdown last night bummed me out. Our crowd was wasted on people getting covered in chili and having to listen to Bayley and Naomi promos. I feel dirty for having paid for it.


----------



## BigCy

P Thriller said:


> I feel like I'm living in some sort of alternate universe. I've been watching wrestling for 25 years now. I feel like I know good wrestling. I watch NXT and enjoy it almost all the time and when I tuned into AEW, I find myself mildly entertained half the time and cringing at its stupidity the other half of the time. Yet more people watch AEW every week so it is making me insecure as a wrestling fan like everyone knows something I don't.


Same 100%. I've come to the conclusion that Pro Wrestling caters to different sub-cultures now. It used to cater to pretty much everyone and now it caters mostly to bronies, neckbeards, beardettes (female neckbeards) and "nerd/geek" culture. Not all and not all promotions nor am I saying they are all horrible people but it's VERY noticeable when you look in the crowds. This sub culture has different ideas of what's funny and what's "cool" to watch so the landscape changed. NJPW is the only company where I see all kinds of people watching and caters more to Pure Pro Wrestling fans which is why I pretty much only watch them with occasional AEW and occasional NWA.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you speculate a lot and say very little


I think pointing out that $45 million is bizarrely close to what an educated guess at production costs would be is saying a lot, actually. AEW fanboys just don't want to hear it, because there's no way Tony would ever pull a dirty trick like Vince McMahon, is there?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> I think pointing out that $45 million is bizarrely close to what an educated guess at production costs would be is saying a lot, actually. AEW fanboys just don't want to hear it, because there's no way Tony would ever pull a dirty trick like Vince McMahon, is there?


it’s saying nothing - it was stated their production cost is 500k - but you don‘t buy it. Now it is 800 because you decided it.

it’s almost like deciding ‘record low’ is an acceptable broad term. Just go on living your truth


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it’s saying nothing - it was stated their production cost is 500k - but you don‘t buy it. Now it is 800 because you decided it.
> 
> it’s almost like deciding ‘record low’ is an acceptable broad term. Just go on living your truth


I didn't say it was $800k, you DOLT. I just don't know where this $500k number is coming other than Meltzer. Remember, he talks to the AEW guys a lot and they make some ludicrous statements that he prints. $500 and $800 could easily be smudged together by some lying EVPs. I've taken my number for a publicly traded company's similar standard of production five years ago. 

It's quite possible that their production costs are $500k. I just don't trust that number, and for good reason. Meltzer flat-out lies for this company. Getting $45 million for that leaves about $20 million. Not fantastic for live TV anyway. But I just find it very odd that their TV rights fees basically covered the closest thing we have to the production cost for an arena wrestling show, like their previous deal did.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> *I didn't say it was $800k, you DOLT*. I just don't know where this $500k number is coming other than Meltzer. Remember, he talks to the AEW guys a lot and they make some ludicrous statements that he prints. $500 and $800 could easily be smudged together by some lying EVPs. I've taken my number for a publicly traded company's similar standard of production five years ago.
> 
> It's quite possible that their production costs are $500k. I just don't trust that number, and for good reason. Meltzer flat-out lies for this company. Getting $45 million for that leaves about $20 million. Not fantastic for live TV anyway. But I just find it very odd that their TV rights fees basically covered the closest thing we have to the production cost for an arena wrestling show, like their previous deal did.


didn’t you just 5 minutes ago say something about ‘childish insults’ in ‘insecurity’

do you even read what you type, or have you plugged in some weird AI that just spouts out stuff now?

and ‘Dolt’? You sure you 29? Might as well say ‘scallywag’


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I didn't say it was $800k, you DOLT. I just don't know where this $500k number is coming other than Meltzer. Remember, he talks to the AEW guys a lot and they make some ludicrous statements that he prints. $500 and $800 could easily be smudged together by some lying EVPs. I've taken my number for a publicly traded company's similar standard of production five years ago.
> 
> It's quite possible that their production costs are $500k. I just don't trust that number, and for good reason. Meltzer flat-out lies for this company. Getting $45 million for that leaves about $20 million. Not fantastic for live TV anyway. But I just find it very odd that their TV rights fees basically covered the closest thing we have to the production cost for an arena wrestling show, like their previous deal did.


You made a clown out of yourself saying nxt on USA was new income stream for wwe. Company probably giving program up for free. Any numbers you post are made up


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> You made a clown out of yourself saying nxt on USA was new income stream for wwe. Company probably giving program up for free. Any numbers you post are made up


No mate - everyone is lying and the numbers he THINKS is right is the correct one.

funny thing is, that makes him on par with what he is accusing Meltzer of

we truly become those we hate in the end


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> didn’t you just 5 minutes ago say something about ‘childish insults’ in ‘insecurity’
> 
> do you even read what you type, or have you plugged in some weird AI that just spouts out stuff now?
> 
> and ‘Dolt’? You sure you 29? Might as well say ‘scallywag’


DOLT is a reference to the poster, you dolt. 

Do you have a point? Nope. Okay. 



Pippen94 said:


> You made a clown out of yourself saying nxt on USA was new income stream for wwe. Company probably giving program up for free. Any numbers you post are made up


Firstly, I never "said" that like it was a declaration on my part. That's common fucking sense when talking about these things. I know you all think I've got a Big Logic Dick, but NXT was not waiting on my approval to be profitable, folks. 

Secondly, it turns out that rumor, as expected, is likely complete bullshit. Probably started by someone like yourself, clearly bitter about something and feeling the need to take a swipe at the evil empire for some reason.

A simple Google search will reveal the $880k number. This is not disputed by anyone. You disputing it just because it came from me is convenient for you, and fallacious. It's not my number. It's not made up. That number makes a lot more sense than a perfectly round $500k from Meltzer who is friends with these guys. My VERY point is that those numbers could be made up. Yeesh. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> No mate - everyone is lying and the numbers he THINKS is right is the correct one.
> 
> funny thing is, that makes him on par with what he is accusing Meltzer of
> 
> we truly become those we hate in the end


1. I don't THINK that is the number. AEW fanboys really lack comprehension. I'm saying that would be an educated guess at the number, and that would be almost $45 million EXACTLY.

2. Meltzer and the AEW camp do lie. This has been proven time and time again. Don't make me list a bunch of examples. Everyone knows them, and so do you. 

3. I don't hate Meltzer. I quite like the guy. But clearly his reporting on AEW is biased as all fuck. This isn't disputed by anyone. And he doesn't need to be unbiased. But it's going to be called what it is. 

So no, I don't believe him when he says "TNT are expecting 500k viewers" or "Production costs are $500k." Context and some rounding is probably involved.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> *DOLT is a reference to the poster, you dolt.*
> 
> Do you have a point? Nope. Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I never "said" that like it was a declaration on my part. That's common fucking sense when talking about these things. I know you all think I've got a Big Logic Dick, but NXT was not waiting on my approval to be profitable, folks.
> 
> Secondly, it turns out that rumor, as expected, is likely complete bullshit. Probably started by someone like yourself, clearly bitter about something and feeling the need to take a swipe at the evil empire for some reason.
> 
> A simple Google search will reveal the $880k number. This is not disputed by anyone. You disputing it just because it came from me is convenient for you, and fallacious. It's not my number. It's not made up. That number makes a lot more sense than a perfectly round $500k from Meltzer who is friends with these guys. My VERY point is that those numbers could be made up. Yeesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I don't THINK that is the number. _*AEW fanboys really lack comprehension*_. I'm saying that would be an educated guess at the number, and that would be almost $45 million EXACTLY.
> 
> 2. Meltzer and the AEW camp do lie. This has been proven time and time again. Don't make me list a bunch of examples. Everyone knows them, and so do you.
> 
> 3. I don't hate Meltzer. I quite like the guy. But clearly his reporting on AEW is biased as all fuck. This isn't disputed by anyone. And he doesn't need to be unbiased. But it's going to be called what it is.
> 
> So no, I don't believe him when he says "TNT are expecting 500k viewers" or "Production costs are $500k." Context and some rounding is probably involved.


ooooh, you’re such a sassy little hotpot


----------



## The Wood

Sassy, yes. Hotpot, sure. Little? Try again. ;-)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Sassy, yes. Hotpot, sure. Little? Try again. ;-)


of average median size for a well nourished male from Australia? One that has to look up at Koalas, but only if they’re in tall trees


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> No mate - everyone is lying and the numbers he THINKS is right is the correct one.
> 
> funny thing is, that makes him on par with what he is accusing Meltzer of
> 
> we truly become those we hate in the end


He claimed two days ago USA was paying $30-$50 million for nxt. He was using this to argue nxt wasn't moved to counter aew but merely for profit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> He claimed two days ago USA was paying $30-$50 million for nxt. He was using this to argue nxt wasn't moved to counter aew but merely for profit.


what‘s the saying? Lies, lies and statistics

you can make any number jump and do cartwheels to prove a point. in the end, only the execs know what is really plotting. Woods just thinks he has some above average insight than the rest of us into the inner logic and working of the machinations of these multi-million dollar businesses.

i have to admit, at some point i‘m gonna want to trade LinkedIn info..... just to see


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what‘s the saying? Lies, lies and statistics
> 
> you can make any number jump and do cartwheels to prove a point. in the end, only the execs know what is really plotting. Woods just thinks he has some above average insight than the rest of us into the inner logic and working of the machinations of these multi-million dollar businesses.
> 
> i have to admit, at some point i‘m gonna want to trade LinkedIn info..... just to see


Poor guy is just delusional. Everyone lying and Khan family are bunch of clueless fools. Majority of the forum is wrong and he's right lol. He has Baron Corbin heat on this forum for a reason. It's just sad he keeps trying so hard to push this negative agenda with lies and silly spins.


He has zero credibility and people either ignore or are laughing at him. Or just annoyed by his hate and get suckered in to replying to him. Like I use to lol. None of this benefits him at all and he's convincing nobody of anything.


The guy will continue to be proven wrong over time like he has been already(because he's claiming everything positive is a lie and trying to push this negative agenda with made up crap) and he's just wasting his life.


Hopefully one day he will wake up and say what the hell am I doing. Then hopefully realize making up crap and calling every thing lies. So he can push this negative agenda about the company is convincing nobody and doing nothing for him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Poor guy is just delusional. Everyone lying and Khan family are bunch of clueless fools. Majority of the forum is wrong and he's right lol. He has Baron Corbin heat on this forum for a reason. It's just sad he keeps trying so hard to push this negative agenda with lies and silly spins.
> 
> 
> He has zero credibility and people either ignore or are laughing at him. Or just annoyed by his hate and get suckered in to replying to him. Like I use to lol. None of this benefits him at all and he's convincing nobody of anything.
> 
> 
> The guy will continue to be proven wrong over time like he has been already(because he's claiming everything positive is a lie and trying to push this negative agenda with made up crap) and he's just wasting his life.
> 
> 
> Hopefully one day he will wake up and say what the hell am I doing. Then hopefully realize making up crap and calling every thing lies. So he can push this negative agenda about the company is convincing nobody and doing nothing for him.


we all had a time when we were really feeling ourselves in a forum - being right being the most important thing

he’ll mellow out with age I suspect

to be fair, I normally have him on ignore - I would go crazy otherwise - but every now and again i like to take him off. Mainly because while he is wildly delusional about a lot of stuff, he’s not dumb

and the banter is entertaining..... to a degree. Then at some point I just go ‘i’m too old for this shit‘


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we all had a time when we were really feeling ourselves in a forum - being right being the most important thing
> 
> he’ll mellow out with age I suspect
> 
> to be fair, I normally have him on ignore - I would go crazy otherwise - but every now and again i like to take him off. Mainly because while he is wildly delusional about a lot of stuff, he’s not dumb
> 
> and the banter is entertaining..... to a degree. Then at some point I just go ‘i’m too old for this shit‘


I gotta keep him on ignore. Life to short to waste reading his essays of delusions everyday. All on attempt to push his negative agenda about the company. While I see enough of people replying to ghosts about some ridiculous spin that it's obvious they could only be replying to him lol.


Like if he doesn't think he's delusional. Well then he should ask himself did he convince anyone with the garbage he tries to spin? I think the answer is no and even if he was right about something. At this point nobody would believe him anyways. Since he went so over board on spinning all the negativity showing the whole forum his agenda.


If he would actually accept and admit that AEW is doing well and now profitable like all the reports suggest. Or admit that TNT is very happy with the company being one of their highest rated programming(some weeks the highest). But when he tries to call that lies and make up lies and spins to debunk all that. Well it kills any credibility he has with people and he becomes a joke.


If he actually said AEW doing well and I'm glad they are profitable and network is happy. But said to grow beyond where they are now and to get to a WWE level. They need to improve on this or that. But making all these claims saying everything is reported is lies.


When many insiders reported these things and we seen a company like TNA get profitable making much much less profit. Well it's just obvious he's pushing this negative agenda and can't admit to being wrong or admit they are successful right now. Well then he just comes off as crazy guy running around trying to convince everyone the earth is flat who nobody takes seriously. Even I don't think he really believes some of the stuff he says deep down. I think he just hates the company So much he wants to believe his theories and convinces himself that it has to be all lies lol.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> He claimed two days ago USA was paying $30-$50 million for nxt. He was using this to argue nxt wasn't moved to counter aew but merely for profit.


He also made sure to say, “Let’s day instead of _getting_ $60 million for NXT, they’re paying $60 million.”

It is a subtle way of slowly building the story that NXT receives $60m when reports have all been at the $30m range.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we all had a time when we were really feeling ourselves in a forum - being right being the most important thing
> 
> he’ll mellow out with age I suspect
> 
> to be fair, I normally have him on ignore - I would go crazy otherwise - but every now and again i like to take him off. Mainly because while he is wildly delusional about a lot of stuff, he’s not dumb
> 
> and the banter is entertaining..... to a degree. Then at some point I just go ‘i’m too old for this shit‘


All of this!!!

I even pointed out to him how I hope he grows out of this phase. When you lack real life experience, shared interests that only life and having a family can provide, then you absolutely will believe that only your line of thinking is correct. And why wouldn’t it be? Trusting your opinion has served YOU well.

Life and family forces you to do things against the grain some times. You won’t always get your way. You’ll try things the way your wife suggests and find yourself pleasantly surprised it worked.

He is clearly not dumb and knows his wrestling. I often agree with his line of thinking, but I have also learned that there is more than one way to skin a cat and willing to see how things play out.


----------



## The Wood

Wow, such a needy little group session going on here, lol. 



Pippen94 said:


> He claimed two days ago USA was paying $30-$50 million for nxt. He was using this to argue nxt wasn't moved to counter aew but merely for profit.


That was the fucking story, Pips, and it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that they were getting $0, so that story was a little jarring. Turns out it was bullshit and they probably are getting some amount of money for it, which could presumably cover developmental costs which were running at a deficit. 

What the fuck is wrong with that reasoning? I want a proper answer from you. And, *no*, you liar -- I didn't say that WWE had no intention to counter AEW, I said that NXT was already on Wednesdays and that their purpose wasn't necessarily _to put AEW six feet under in the first couple of months_. You, just like the other fanboys, have to be disingenuous to have a ghost of a point. Go back and read what I actually said and find me a quote where I said that WWE had no intention of airing at the same time as NXT. You won't be able to, because you've made it up, because you're a liar.

That isn't my opinion. That isn't me trolling. That is a *fact.*

Saying "AEW prompted NXT to monetize their programming which is actually a good thing for their bottom-line" is a perfectly reasonable statement to make. It is you that is pushing the delusional agenda that it was designed to break AEW in a few weeks. How? Why? Who cares about pesky little questions like that. 



imthegame19 said:


> Poor guy is just delusional. Everyone lying and Khan family are bunch of clueless fools. Majority of the forum is wrong and he's right lol. He has Baron Corbin heat on this forum for a reason. It's just sad he keeps trying so hard to push this negative agenda with lies and silly spins.
> 
> 
> He has zero credibility and people either ignore or are laughing at him. Or just annoyed by his hate and get suckered in to replying to him. Like I use to lol. None of this benefits him at all and he's convincing nobody of anything.
> 
> 
> The guy will continue to be proven wrong over time like he has been already(because he's claiming everything positive is a lie and trying to push this negative agenda with made up crap) and he's just wasting his life.
> 
> 
> Hopefully one day he will wake up and say what the hell am I doing. Then hopefully realize making up crap and calling every thing lies. So he can push this negative agenda about the company is convincing nobody and doing nothing for him.


Alright, I'll bite. Push the ad hominem aside and present one thing I've been "proven wrong about." I can name one, so I'll get it out of the way: 

* I predicted NXT would be within reach of AEW this week in terms of ratings. I mean, technically NXT could have been watched by more people -- the 10% margin of error for Nielsen ratings and all -- but I was speaking more in terms of something even AEW fanboys would have to admit. 

Now name another. There are apparently all these examples around. Give me another one. If not, yes, I am going to put you in the liar bucket with Pips. 



imthegame19 said:


> I gotta keep him on ignore. Life to short to waste reading his essays of delusions everyday. All on attempt to push his negative agenda about the company. While I see enough of people replying to ghosts about some ridiculous spin that it's obvious they could only be replying to him lol.
> 
> 
> Like if he doesn't think he's delusional. Well then he should ask himself did he convince anyone with the garbage he tries to spin? I think the answer is no and even if he was right about something. At this point nobody would believe him anyways. Since he went so over board on spinning all the negativity showing the whole forum his agenda.
> 
> 
> If he would actually accept and admit that AEW is doing well and now profitable like all the reports suggest. Or admit that TNT is very happy with the company being one of their highest rated programming(some weeks the highest). But when he tries to call that lies and make up lies and spins to debunk all that. Well it kills any credibility he has with people and he becomes a joke.
> 
> 
> If he actually said AEW doing well and I'm glad they are profitable and network is happy. But said to grow beyond where they are now and to get to a WWE level. They need to improve on this or that. But making all these claims saying everything is reported is lies.
> 
> 
> When many insiders reported these things and we seen a company like TNA get profitable making much much less profit. Well it's just obvious he's pushing this negative agenda and can't admit to being wrong or admit they are successful right now. Well then he just comes off as crazy guy running around trying to convince everyone the earth is flat who nobody takes seriously. Even I don't think he really believes some of the stuff he says deep down. I think he just hates the company So much he wants to believe his theories and convinces himself that it has to be all lies lol.


Lol, I don't need to convince you. There are plenty of other people who read, and some even take the time to message me and say thanks for speaking some sense on there. Some are probably not even members and don't want to join because they see that you go after anyone and do these big group chats consisting of numerous essays about someone when you are in their presence. 

I share my thoughts because I love sharing them. And a lot of people love reading them, baby. And best of all, too often there isn't a retort other than "you're delusional," "you're negative," "you have an agenda." Fucking prove it. Dare ya. 

It's going to be so sweet when I am proven right. It's not even important to me that I am right, but your reactions and denial are going to what's delicious. Forgive me, I have guilty pleasures.



bdon said:


> He also made sure to say, “Let’s day instead of _getting_ $60 million for NXT, they’re paying $60 million.”
> 
> It is a subtle way of slowly building the story that NXT receives $60m when reports have all been at the $30m range.


Did Garty lend you his tinfoil hat? $60 million isn't my fucking narrative, mate. Your Cattle mate shared that number or something. All reports? I've seen $50 and $35. I don't trust Dave, because he will downsize NXT whatever chance he gets. We'll probably know from the investor meeting. 

But yes, I am trying to subconsciously build a narrative in the active minds of people all over the world by posting a hypothetical scenario on a wrestling forum. I went with $60 million there because it is the LARGEST amount. You're looking way too much into that and are paranoid as fuuuuuuck. 



bdon said:


> All of this!!!
> 
> *I even pointed out to him how I hope he grows out of this phase.*


And I have even pointed out to you how you are such a condescending douche at times. Honestly, nothing against ya, bdon, but I don't really care what you hope for. Believe me, I'm fine, lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Wow, such a needy little group session going on here, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> That was the fucking story, Pips, and it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that they were getting $0, so that story was a little jarring. Turns out it was bullshit and they probably are getting some amount of money for it, which could presumably cover developmental costs which were running at a deficit.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with that reasoning? I want a proper answer from you. And, *no*, you liar -- I didn't say that WWE had no intention to counter AEW, I said that NXT was already on Wednesdays and that their purpose wasn't necessarily _to put AEW six feet under in the first couple of months_. You, just like the other fanboys, have to be disingenuous to have a ghost of a point. Go back and read what I actually said and find me a quote where I said that WWE had no intention of airing at the same time as NXT. You won't be able to, because you've made it up, because you're a liar.
> 
> That isn't my opinion. That isn't me trolling. That is a *fact.*
> 
> Saying "AEW prompted NXT to monetize their programming which is actually a good thing for their bottom-line" is a perfectly reasonable statement to make. It is you that is pushing the delusional agenda that it was designed to break AEW in a few weeks. How? Why? Who cares about pesky little questions like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, I'll bite. Push the ad hominem aside and present one thing I've been "proven wrong about." I can name one, so I'll get it out of the way:
> 
> * I predicted NXT would be within reach of AEW this week in terms of ratings. I mean, technically NXT could have been watched by more people -- the 10% margin of error for Nielsen ratings and all -- but I was speaking more in terms of something even AEW fanboys would have to admit.
> 
> Now name another. There are apparently all these examples around. Give me another one. If not, yes, I am going to put you in the liar bucket with Pips.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I don't need to convince you. There are plenty of other people who read, and some even take the time to message me and say thanks for speaking some sense on there. Some are probably not even members and don't want to join because they see that you go after anyone and do these big group chats consisting of numerous essays about someone when you are in their presence.
> 
> I share my thoughts because I love sharing them. And a lot of people love reading them, baby. And best of all, too often there isn't a retort other than "you're delusional," "you're negative," "you have an agenda." Fucking prove it. Dare ya.
> 
> It's going to be so sweet when I am proven right. It's not even important to me that I am right, but your reactions and denial are going to what's delicious. Forgive me, I have guilty pleasures.
> 
> 
> 
> Did Garty lend you his tinfoil hat? $60 million isn't my fucking narrative, mate. Your Cattle mate shared that number or something. All reports? I've seen $50 and $35. I don't trust Dave, because he will downsize NXT whatever chance he gets. We'll probably know from the investor meeting.
> 
> But yes, I am trying to subconsciously build a narrative in the active minds of people all over the world by posting a hypothetical scenario on a wrestling forum. I went with $60 million there because it is the LARGEST amount. You're looking way too much into that and are paranoid as fuuuuuuck.
> 
> 
> 
> And I have even pointed out to you how you are such a condescending douche at times. Honestly, nothing against ya, bdon, but I don't really care what you hope for. Believe me, I'm fine, lol.


I’m sorry buddy, you must feel like everyone is against you. We are not, I think some people don’t understand where you’re coming from or how you think. That’s ok, we are only reading text. We don’t know what difficulties the person behind the screen has been through. Sending positive vibes your way. May you heal soon.


----------



## TheAlchemist

P Thriller said:


> I feel like I'm living in some sort of alternate universe. I've been watching wrestling for 25 years now. I feel like I know good wrestling. I watch NXT and enjoy it almost all the time and when I tuned into AEW, I find myself mildly entertained half the time and cringing at its stupidity the other half of the time. Yet more people watch AEW every week so it is making me insecure as a wrestling fan like everyone knows something I don't.


wrestling is not what is used to be. the landscape is always changing and evolving. AEW is at the forefront of this and old-school wrestling fans are inclined to dislike because it doesn't perfectly fit into their model of what wrestling is. 

i remeber from JRE that even Brian said that AEW feels more alive and that after NXT he legit gets so tired he never wants to watch wrestling again for a while. and this is coming from AEW's biggest critics. 

naturally change triggers fear. but when it's realized that the only thing constant in life is change (except in WWE universe where everything remains the same), i think you'll be able to enjoy it more.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Ratings still good? Awesome. AEW still thriving. Love to see it.


----------



## rbl85

Smallest crowd expected for next week show, around 2k.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Smallest crowd expected for next week show, around 2k.


I’m shocked. When I saw them book this week init


rbl85 said:


> Smallest crowd expected for next week show, around 2k.


They have got to get off of Wednesday nights. Crowds would be much better on Fridays.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> I’m sorry buddy, you must feel like everyone is against you. We are not, I think some people don’t understand where you’re coming from or how you think. That’s ok, we are only reading text. We don’t know what difficulties the person behind the screen has been through. Sending positive vibes your way. May you heal soon.


If you're genuinely trying to be kind, I appreciate it, but I'm fine, lol. If you're trying to be a cunt, I don't really care. Either way, I noticed you didn't have a retort. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Ratings still good? Awesome. AEW still thriving. Love to see it.


Ah, yes -- I remember when the koala was thriving too. Now it's considered functionally extinct. You can't judge these things week-to-week. 



rbl85 said:


> Smallest crowd expected for next week show, around 2k.


Oof. But I thought they were hot and growing an audience?

Honestly don't know what the location is. Where are they? 



TKO Wrestling said:


> I’m shocked. When I saw them book this week init
> 
> 
> They have got to get off of Wednesday nights. Crowds would be much better on Fridays.


Crowds are good for Smackers because families go and it's not a school night. I'm not sure how many families go to AEW. It's pretty much a product for single white men, no? Going to Friday would also probably hurt their ratings a lot.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I really don’t think it would hurt their ratings at all and I could see Smackdown even gaining a little out of it. Would be lots of hype.


----------



## The Wood

SmackDown currently gets about three times the audience of AEW. Dynamite would get absolutely slaughtered.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

When I looked at Ticketmaster it looked like it was almost sold out but a lot was on Stubhub.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> SmackDown currently gets about three times the audience of AEW. Dynamite would get absolutely slaughtered.


Thank you I wasn’t capable of looking up their ratings. Again I don’t see an issue with AEW on Fridays. Would be much better for them. They wouldn’t try to compete with Smackdown, WWE fans like you just can’t get that through your heads. And yes you are a diehard WWE fan it’s all you talk about.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I’m shocked. When I saw them book this week init
> 
> 
> *They have got to get off of Wednesday nights.* Crowds would be much better on Fridays.


This have nothing to do with being on wednesday, they would have had the same amount of people on friday it's just that some place are not good markets for wrestling but to know which place are or not good markets you have to have a show.
Now they will know that this town is not a good town for wrestling.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> This have nothing to do with being on wednesday, they would have had the same amount of people on friday it's just that some place are not good markets for wrestling but to know which place are or not good markets you have to have a show.
> Now they will know that this town is not a good town for wrestling.


I don’t know man, look at how Smackdown live attendance has jumped since moving from Tuesday to Friday. It is clearly easier to get crowds on a weekend.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I don’t know man, look at how Smackdown live attendance has jumped since moving from Tuesday to Friday. It is clearly easier to get crowds on a weekend.


AEW would lost more viewers if they were on friday.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> I don’t know man, look at how Smackdown live attendance has jumped since moving from Tuesday to Friday. It is clearly easier to get crowds on a weekend.


They moved from Cable to Network. That is the main reason why their ratings have been better.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> AEW would lost more viewers if they were on friday.


Yeah attendance would be up for sure. People are much more likely to go to wrestling show on Friday night going Into the weekend. Instead of Wednesday when they got work the next day. 


I know I skipped going to Dynamite in Chicago for same reason. But he's ratings would probably drop on a Friday night I'm guessing. Making network happy and extra ad revenue matters more then extra what thousand tickets sold. Since Smackdown was doing a lot of 2-5 k attendance on Tuesday and seems to be up to 6-10 range plus most weeks.


----------



## Jonhern

TKO Wrestling said:


> I’m shocked. When I saw them book this week init
> 
> 
> They have got to get off of Wednesday nights. Crowds would be much better on Fridays.


ratings are more important than live attendance, Fridays will suck for ratings. Look at SDL, on network and doing as good as they were doing on Cable, no bounce because of the Friday timeslot.


----------



## rbl85

Also imagine how AEW would get destroyed by a lot of people with their 900k viewers against 2.3-2.5M viewers for SD the same night…..


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Also imagine how AEW would get destroyed by a lot of people with their 900k viewers against 2.3-2.5M viewers for SD the same night…..


I personally don't see a dip. WCW didnt lose viewers from what they had on Saturday nights when they moved to Mondays. I think AEW would still hit that .3 demo and 750k+. I mean, obviously TNT would know more than any of us, but I don't think they lose a drastic amount of viewers if they were to move.

Honestly I think they would gain a few and get alot more in the arenas at the same type. The hype would be really high. Still, the .3 demo could mean way more to TNT on a Wednesday than a Friday.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I personally don't see a dip. WCW didnt lose viewers from what they had on Saturday nights when they moved to Mondays. I think AEW would still hit that .3 demo and 750k+. I mean, obviously TNT would know more than any of us, but I don't think they lose a drastic amount of viewers if they were to move.
> 
> Honestly I think they would gain a few and get alot more in the arenas at the same type. *The hype would be really high. * Still, the .3 demo could mean way more to TNT on a Wednesday than a Friday.


The hype would die quickly when an other wrestling show is doing 3 times the rating of AEW during the same night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Personally I would like to see the 2nd show on Friday instead

get a ‘feel’ for the night first in terms of ratings.

their attendance is average to great at most times. 1 poor one should not flip the script - if it even ends up being poor, 2k today turns into their average of 3.5k tomorrow


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> The hype would die quickly when an other wrestling show is doing 3 times the rating of AEW during the same night.


how big is the overlap between sd and dynamite? do you know? idk genuine question


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> how big is the overlap between sd and dynamite? do you know? idk genuine question


Since AEW started, it was reported that the AEW audience is nearly totaly different from the one who watch the WWE.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Since AEW started, it was reported that the AEW audience is nearly totaly different from the one who watch the WWE.


so then how would SD affect AEW ratings?


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> so then how would SD affect AEW ratings?


AEW would probably lose a bit of viewers but not much (mostly in the oldest demos).


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> AEW would probably lose a bit of viewers but not much (mostly in the oldest demos).


So then it wouldn’t matter that much would it? do you think SD could lose some of their viewers? I mean on the last page you said SD would destroy AEW, but now you are saying they’d lose “a bit” and especially in the least important group. 

Do you have any data which suggests that people prefer SD over AEW? Genuine question.


----------



## Jonhern

TKO Wrestling said:


> I personally don't see a dip. WCW didnt lose viewers from what they had on Saturday nights when they moved to Mondays. I think AEW would still hit that .3 demo and 750k+. I mean, obviously TNT would know more than any of us, but I don't think they lose a drastic amount of viewers if they were to move.
> 
> Honestly I think they would gain a few and get alot more in the arenas at the same type. The hype would be really high. Still, the .3 demo could mean way more to TNT on a Wednesday than a Friday.


IDK if attendance would change significantly by moving to Friday. The main people that would affect are kids who might not be allowed to go out on a school night, and unlike WWE, AEW does not have a large kid following to my knowledge. Plus RAW has been doing just fine on Mondays for decades, where people have to go to work the next day.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

optikk sucks said:


> so then how would SD affect AEW ratings?


The numbers that Meltzer gave showed that a portion of the viewers that watch Dynamite also flip to NXT. But those that watch NXT do not flip to Dynamite.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> So then it wouldn’t matter that much would it? do you think SD could lose some of their viewers? I mean on the last page you said SD would destroy AEW, but now you are saying they’d lose “a bit” and especially in the least important group.
> 
> Do you have any data which suggests that people prefer SD over AEW? Genuine question.


Well if the people who watch SD liked AEW then AEW would do more than 900K every week. 
AEW might hurt SD the first week…..not too much tho but the Week after SD would be back to normal at 2.4M and AEW at 900K. Now AEW might do more DVR but the live viewership would probably be the same.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Well if the people who watch SD liked AEW then AEW would do more than 900K every week.
> AEW might hurt SD the first week…..not too much tho but the Week after SD would be back to normal at 2.4M and AEW at 900K. Now AEW might do more DVR but the live viewership would probably be the same.


AEW are doing 900k a week because:
-they are on cable television - SD is on network TV.
-they are not WWE, which most casuals think of as the only pro-wrestling product available to view. It can take over a decade to get to that same level of exposure. I bet about half of the SD viewers know what AEW is.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Well if the people who watch SD liked AEW then AEW would do more than 900K every week.
> AEW might hurt SD the first week…..not too much tho but the Week after SD would be back to normal at 2.4M and AEW at 900K. Now AEW might do more DVR but the live viewership would probably be the same.


Which is exactly what I was saying. Same numbers but better attendance. I don't care what age your target demo is, Friday nights are always going to draw better live attendance than a weeknight in almost every business.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Which is exactly what I was saying. Same numbers but better attendance. I don't care what age your target demo is, Friday nights are always going to draw better live attendance than a weeknight in almost every business.


AEW will never go against SD.


----------



## taker1986

Looks like it's Charlotte challenging for the NXT title and I can see it being Becky/Shayna. Expect Becky and Charlotte to be appearing on NXT and some other guys might be in some WM programs, so expect some male and female stars on the show in the next couple of months. With all of this happening NXT will likely get a couple of wins on the road to WM.


----------



## K4L318

taker1986 said:


> Looks like it's Charlotte challenging for the NXT title and I can see it being Becky/Shayna. Expect Becky and Charlotte to be appearing on NXT and some other guys might be in some WM programs, so expect some male and female stars on the show in the next couple of months. With all of this happening NXT will likely get a couple of wins on the road to WM.


Charlotte aint a TV draw


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Wow, such a needy little group session going on here, lol.


homie ya posting like 105 times a day and we needy? LMAO


----------



## taker1986

K4L318 said:


> Charlotte aint a TV draw


Charlotte and Becky together are more of a draw than the entire AEW women's division combined.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Thank you I wasn’t capable of looking up their ratings. Again I don’t see an issue with AEW on Fridays. Would be much better for them. They wouldn’t try to compete with Smackdown, WWE fans like you just can’t get that through your heads. And yes you are a diehard WWE fan it’s all you talk about.


They would be competing. They would literally be on at the same time...

And no, I am not a diehard WWE fan, lol. Although they got me back in with the Royal Rumble and Raw was easily the best TV show of a week. But that's surreal.


----------



## rbl85

taker1986 said:


> Charlotte and Becky together are more of a draw than the entire AEW women's division combined.


Why would Becky appear on NXT when she's still feuding with Asuka until next week ?


----------



## taker1986

rbl85 said:


> Why would Becky appear on NXT when she's still feuding with Asuka until next week ?


Its rumoured that she's facing Shayna at WM. If that's the case we'll be seeing plenty of Becky on NXT.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> They would be competing. They would literally be on at the same time...
> 
> And no, I am not a diehard WWE fan, lol. Although they got me back in with the Royal Rumble and Raw was easily the best TV show of a week. But that's surreal.


You're a troll - everything you say is bullshit


----------



## rbl85

taker1986 said:


> Its rumoured that she's facing Shayna at WM. If that's the case we'll be seeing plenty of Becky on NXT.


Nope because Shayna will no longer be part of NXT, she will be a RAW wrestler.


----------



## K4L318

taker1986 said:


> Charlotte and Becky together are more of a draw than the entire AEW women's division combined.


bruh ya talking RAW ratings. A core Monday audience. It doesnt translate to Wednesday. Look how low post Rumble is right now.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> * I predicted NXT would be within reach of AEW this week in terms of ratings. I mean, technically NXT could have been watched by more people -- *the 10% margin of error for Nielsen ratings and all* -- but I was speaking more in terms of something even AEW fanboys would have to admit.


Hey there, 

I really like to read you.
However, I think you overestimate the margin of error.
Yes, Nielsen admitted a margin of 10%, but on the final result meaning something +5%/-5% on the final rating.
Otherwise the error will be to big to be relevant for the advertisers.
What's more, in this article they mentioned the primetime accuracy is the best. 

I really think we should review the ratings system especially today, when everyone is on digital TV.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You're a troll - everything you say is bullshit


Coming from you, that sounds like a compliment. 



French Connection said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I really like to read you.
> However, I think you overestimate the margin of error.
> Yes, Nielsen admitted a margin of 10%, but on the final result meaning something +5%/-5% on the final rating.
> Otherwise the error will be to big to be relevant for the advertisers.
> What's more, in this article they mentioned the primetime accuracy is the best.
> 
> I really think we should review the ratings system especially today, when everyone is on digital TV.


I don't think you're being unreasonable there. Again, I am not saying that 100% is the case, but people take the ratings way too literally. They're an indicator, and weirdly still one of the best ones we have, for whatever reason, but a lot of advertisers and networks _are_ leery of them. CBS was thinking about opting out at one point. 

I think it's highly unlikely that NXT is 10% under while AEW is 10% over, lol. But it's within the realm of possibility, so I don't think fanboys should go acting like AEW is "slaughtering" NXT or anything like that. It's possible that NXT actually has more viewers, lol.

Both AEW and NXT would be selling themselves at being that 10% over. When you do that, AEW looks like it has the larger audience. But then you factor in NXT's existence of other platforms and internationally and that probably helps endear themselves to sponsors.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Coming from you, that sounds like a compliment.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you're being unreasonable there. Again, I am not saying that 100% is the case, but people take the ratings way too literally. They're an indicator, and weirdly still one of the best ones we have, for whatever reason, but a lot of advertisers and networks _are_ leery of them. CBS was thinking about opting out at one point.
> 
> I think it's highly unlikely that NXT is 10% under while AEW is 10% over, lol. But it's within the realm of possibility, so I don't think fanboys should go acting like AEW is "slaughtering" NXT or anything like that. It's possible that NXT actually has more viewers, lol.
> 
> Both AEW and NXT would be selling themselves at being that 10% over. When you do that, AEW looks like it has the larger audience. But then you factor in NXT's existence of other platforms and internationally and that probably helps endear themselves to sponsors.


So we should stop all these talks about the ratings and just enjoy AEW or/and NXT ?


----------



## kingfrass44

*AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2*
Do not expect anything other than numbers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> So we should stop all these talks about the ratings and just enjoy AEW or/and NXT ?


fine by me - except the ratings tickle my analyst brain - so, it is fun to look at

but do they matter? Nah, not really - its clear to see the trends and AEW will be sticking around for the long haul


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> So we should stop all these talks about the ratings and just enjoy AEW or/and NXT ?


No, ratings are still important. You've just got to know how to read them and understand that an estimated 8k lead doesn't mean that there were literally and definitely 8k more people watching one show over the other.


----------



## bdon

4 times it was super close. The rest were pretty significant wins either direction. Stop.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> No, ratings are still important. You've just got to know how to read them and understand that an estimated 8k lead doesn't mean that there were literally and definitely 8k more people watching one show over the other.


You are right.
We have to read the ratings more as a trend or a market share.

Few months ago, a guy here pretended to work for a cable carrier, and was able to see in real time what the subscribers were watching. I do not know if it's true or not, I wouldn't be surprise it is. 
I mean the Nielsen's box looks a little bit old school when we are in a digital era.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> No, ratings are still important. You've just got to know how to read them and understand that an estimated 8k lead doesn't mean that there were literally and definitely 8k more people watching one show over the other.


Okay then Woodsy. Since you've given us YOUR "proof" of studying the ratings, what is it exactly you're trying to spin here? What other way can you read, "8000 more people watched show A and 8000 less people watched show B". Estimated or not, those are the numbers. So if that doesn't seem true to your "opinion", why do constantly bring up the estimated 10% + or - for both AEW and NXT? I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure that you have. Using the 10% maximum, either more or less, what's the average highest of highs for AEW and what's the average lowest of lows for NXT? Now, repeat the same steps, using the highest of highs for NXT and the lowest of lows for AEW. Does your "proof" still hold water, or are you going to spin it because you hold that notion of NXT always being the "winner" and "in the realm of possibility, taking into account that + or - 10%", so close to the vest? You have said, there's no way that AEW is the one that has the majority of that +10%. That it's impossible to believe the actual numbers are true. That something must be wrong with their calculations?

Oh and that CBS report you've mentioned in many threads, including this one, about the company wanting to "leave/quit" the Nielsen Ratings System, is over 14 months old and as said in the article:

_- CBS is seeking “a competitive rate” from Nielsen given that there are more measurement alternatives available for a marketplace that has moved well past the linear TV ratings that Nielsen has delivered for decades.
- A CBS spokesperson declined to comment. A Nielsen rep indicated that CBS’ threat to drop the service was posturing amid tough contract talks. “We expect to arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement well in advance of Dec. 31,” a Nielsen spokesman said.

- In truth, CBS may be hard-pressed to abandon Nielsen entirely. The company has long been the standard of measurement in the media industry, and has worked in recent years to start measuring viewers who watch TV in new ways.

- One person close to the negotiations portrayed the talks as ongoing. “There have never been any issues with CBS,” this person said. “They’ve always been progressive-minded measurement partners that have helped to develop important industry innovations that are used across the market today.”_

Here is a more detailed report (Forbes Magazine) on the initial story Woodsy linked
Can CBS Go Without Nielsen?

TAKE NOTE that after about 12 days of negotiations between the two sides, CBS renewed their contract with Nielsen. I guess you left that part out, huh? Here is that report:
CBS, Nielsen End Standoff With New Deal


----------



## Jonhern

Im not going to unblock him, but Woods, Vince just said on the conference call that AEW is doing great and WWE expects them to keep doing great in the future. Wonder if that will change his tone? Probably not.


Edit: I misheard what Vince said, he said NXT was doing great on Wednesday. but by association, that means AEW is doing better lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jonhern said:


> Im not going to unblock him, but Woods, Vince just said on the conference call that AEW is doing great and WWE expects them to keep doing great in the future. Wonder if that will change his tone? Probably not.


uh uh uh 10%!!!! Nelson overestimate by 10%!!!!!


----------



## Aedubya

0.91 narrow victory prediction


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@optikk sucks - I was almost right with the $35 

If it goes to $40 again like it opened today, I recon 'buy' mate

Edit> ps. Aren't you glad I saved you money at $49? Gonna need a cut of that profit at the end of this mate


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @optikk sucks - I was almost right with the $35
> 
> If it goes to $40 again like it opened today, I recon 'buy' mate
> 
> Edit> ps. Aren't you glad I saved you money at $49? Gonna need a cut of that profit at the end of this mate


I’m going to keep waiting. Someone said wait 3 days before buying because that’s when it’ll stabilise at its lowest. As investors read the report, more will selll


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I’m going to keep waiting. Someone said wait 3 days before buying because that’s when it’ll stabilise at its lowest. As investors read the report, more will selll


Yeah, that is most likely smart

This bit was interesting in the report

*"Free Cash Flow* totaled $52.6 million as compared to $154.4 million in the prior year period"

Is that the 5 Year contracts maybe eating some cash and upping 'operating costs' ? I know they said Operating costs was upped by 'Workspace Plans' - but that has to be the contract hikes, right?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah, that is most likely smart
> 
> This bit was interesting in the report
> 
> *"Free Cash Flow* totaled $52.6 million as compared to $154.4 million in the prior year period"
> 
> Is that the 5 Year contracts maybe eating some cash and upping 'operating costs' ? I know they said Operating costs was upped by 'Workspace Plans' - but that has to be the contract hikes, right?


Damn that’s ridiculous. They’re really attributing 100 million to operating costs?

WWE are literally giving out millions to sit on the sidelines. Imagine how much they’re giving to be on the show in a prominent position.


----------



## bdon

Watched the show a second time, and it still had its great moments with way too much dead shit. SCU bores the hell out of me more than even the Best friends. In a vacuum, they’re not bad, but you can’t have them on the same show you’re going to air Britt Baker vs a Dynamite-premiering Sakazaki or a Joey Janela/Kip Sabian 20 minute match. I don’t hate any of them in particular and watch every minute of their stuff, but to sandwich them all throughout the card really kills the flow of the show. If you’re going to do it, keep the matches under 10 minutes, which they seemed to do with Baker’s showing and the heat afterwards wasn’t bad.

The Cody and MJF segment just drags way too much, and I still can’t stand having Brandi come to talk to him like she’s Adrienne motivating Rocky.

And I’m an 80s baby. I know what Cody is doing and where he learned it, but he was just far too over-the-top with it all. Him snapping back and getting in MJF’s face was great, that is a logical reaction; an older man, my best friends, my wife or whoever coming to tell me to get up isn’t.

Hoping the rating does great, and that it just missed the mark with me.


----------



## Chan Hung

I'd say AEW wins again but it's closer this week, maybe a small rise due to Charlotte. AEW started very strong, went very weak right in the entire middle and ended strong.


----------



## Chan Hung

bdon said:


> Watched the show a second time, and it still had its great moments with way too much dead shit. SCU bores the hell out of me more than even the Best friends. In a vacuum, they’re not bad, but you can’t have them on the same show you’re going to air Britt Baker vs a Dynamite-premiering Sakazaki or a Joey Janela/Kip Sabian 20 minute match. I don’t hate any of them in particular and watch every minute of their stuff, but to sandwich them all throughout the card really kills the flow of the show. If you’re going to do it, keep the matches under 10 minutes, which they seemed to do with Baker’s showing and the heat afterwards wasn’t bad.
> 
> The Cody and MJF segment just drags way too much, and I still can’t stand having Brandi come to talk to him like she’s Adrienne motivating Rocky.
> 
> And I’m an 80s baby. I know what Cody is doing and where he learned it, but he was just far too over-the-top with it all. Him snapping back and getting in MJF’s face was great, that is a logical reaction; an older man, my best friends, my wife or whoever coming to tell me to get up isn’t.
> 
> Hoping the rating does great, and that it just missed the mark with me.


The SCU/BEST friends, Britt/Yuka and Janella/Kip were the main killers of the whole show.


----------



## IamMark

AEW 928k-0.36 11th
NXT 770k-0.22 34th
Miz&Mrs 475-0.20 46th


----------



## bdon

@The Wood 









WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook


WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook




corporate.wwe.com





Nothing in the report about NXT. Why is that?


----------



## RapShepard

I can't imagine they lose this week. They've consistently out done NXT most weeks and it seems that holiday break did NXT more harm than good. I think they beat them by a smooth 75k-125k out do them .


----------



## IamMark

RapShepard said:


> I can't imagine they lose this week. They've consistently out done NXT most weeks and it seems that holiday break did NXT more harm than good. I think they beat them by a smooth 75k-125k out do them .


posted them on last page.


----------



## imthegame19

IamMark said:


> AEW 928k-0.36 11th
> NXT 770k-0.22 34th
> Miz&Mrs 475-0.20 46th


Another good rating and win for AEW.


----------



## IamMark

Full ratings


----------



## bdon

IamMark said:


> Full ratings


I love being wrong. Nice to see AEW is starting to settle into that 900-950k range.

Here comes @The Wood to tell us that with + and - of 10% margin of victory, it is likely that NXT won this week as well.


----------



## Jonhern

AEW up slightly from last week and remains pretty consistent in the demo since the new year, hovering around .36, up 100k in viewers over last week, but down 8 spots in the rankings, impeachment vote got big numbers pushing them down, in top 4 for non-news shows. NXT steady from last week in the demo and up 60k in viewers, and up 3 spots vs last week.


----------



## taker1986

Good stuff. Hopefully with the matches that are announced for the next few weeks and the build up to Revolution they can crack 1 mil.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Consistency is key.

Let's see that number go up though. AEW really gotta start targeting the females now. Although that's gonna be tough going against Real Housewives


----------



## EmbassyForever

Great number. Hopefully they'll reach 1M till the end of the year. I think it's possible.


----------



## taker1986

BTW does anyone have any info on what TV figures are like for the UK. I want to know if there's any chance they'll have a show in the UK within the next couple of years


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> Consistency is key.
> 
> Let's see that number go up though. AEW really gotta start targeting the females now. Although that's gonna be tough going against Real Housewives


Even the WWE have hard time with the females demo so it's going to be close to impossible to do much better with those demos for AEW.


----------



## llj

AEW done good this week.


----------



## Derek30

Good on them. I'm VERY interested to see how the 10 lashes segment did


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> AEW up slightly from last week and remains pretty consistent in the demo since the new year, hovering around .36, up 100k in viewers over last week, but down 8 spots in the rankings, impeachment vote got big numbers pushing them down, in top 4 for non-news shows. NXT steady from last week in the demo and up 60k in viewers, and up 3 spots vs last week.


This week AEW was up in every demo.


----------



## Whoanma

RapShepard said:


> I can't imagine they lose this week. They've consistently out done NXT most weeks and it seems that holiday break did NXT more harm than good. I think they beat them by a smooth 75k-125k out do them .


+150k.


----------



## AEW_19

taker1986 said:


> BTW does anyone have any info on what TV figures are like for the UK. I want to know if there's any chance they'll have a show in the UK within the next couple of years


It will happen near the end of the year.


----------



## Pippen94

Charlotte hot shoting no impact


----------



## rbl85

taker1986 said:


> BTW does anyone have any info on what TV figures are like for the UK. I want to know if there's any chance they'll have a show in the UK within the next couple of years


They want to do a PPV in the UK.


----------



## taker1986

AEW_19 said:


> It will happen near the end of the year.


Thanks. 

Has this been confirmed yet or just rumoured to be happening. I think they should do a small arena and if ticket interest is high enough then go for somewhere like the O2 Arena next time.


----------



## taker1986

rbl85 said:


> They want to do a PPV in the UK.


That would be awesome if they did that. If they did a PPV I'm guessing the O2 Arena would be a good option.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah, that is most likely smart
> 
> This bit was interesting in the report
> 
> *"Free Cash Flow* totaled $52.6 million as compared to $154.4 million in the prior year period"
> 
> Is that the 5 Year contracts maybe eating some cash and upping 'operating costs' ? I know they said Operating costs was upped by 'Workspace Plans' - but that has to be the contract hikes, right?


If it hasn't been said already, that's exactly the reason for the huge drop. There's no other reason otherwise.


----------



## Illogical

IamMark said:


> AEW 928k-0.36 11th
> NXT 770k-0.22 34th
> Miz&Mrs 475-0.20 46th


Damn AEW's going downhill with these ratings and let me tell you why. Remember I'm only telling you this for AEW's own good!!!! ok here's why:


----------



## Garty

It's not even close! This is becoming a weekly sure-thing now.

Waiting on the usual gang to come in and start their spinning... join me...


----------



## Y2K23

Great.

All they have to do is keep having consistent/good shows and the ratings will come.


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> @The Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook
> 
> 
> WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> corporate.wwe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in the report about NXT. Why is that?


It's because the "rumors" that Woodsy said were verified false, turned out to be true. They make zero dinero and are just giving it away, ONLY to try and stop AEW. If they were making even once cent, it would be in the report. It's not. There's your answer. No way to spin it. Fact. Google it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Up in key demo, up in numbers

its a shame they overall dropped in rankings - is this the first time they‘re out of the top 10?

some of those shows shouldn’t be beating them - ideally they’re always in the top 5 at least

but, they’re up overall - so, no complaints really


----------



## bdon

Garty said:


> It's because the "rumors" that Woodsy said were verified false, turned out to be true. They make zero dinero and are just giving it away, ONLY to try and stop AEW. If they were making even once cent, it would be in the report. It's not. There's your answer. No way to spin it. Fact. Google it.


I know this. I wanted HIM to say, “They’re not making a dime on it and possibly running it at a loss.”


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> I know this. I wanted HIM to say, “They’re not making a dime on it and possibly running it at a loss.”



NXT always runs as a loss lol.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> I know this. I wanted HIM to say, “They’re not making a dime on it and possibly running it at a loss.”


You know he won't admit this lol. He will make up some theory or spin and act like it's something legit. Just like he's saying NXT really winning the ratings every week. The guy is sad and delusional. He has zero credibility on anything AEW related. Since he hates the company so much he will make crap up to push negative agenda anyway he can.


At this point we just gotta laugh off every thing he says. Cuz he takes his hate for the company to far and can't admit to them being successful in anyway lol. I dunno why the whole forum hasn't put him on ignore by now. Hes never going to change and always be pulling this fake news hater agenda crap.


----------



## Erik.

100,000 extra viewers this week for AEW.

Keep it up.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Up in key demo, up in numbers
> 
> its a shame they overall dropped in rankings - is this the first time they‘re out of the top 10?
> 
> some of those shows shouldn’t be beating them - ideally they’re always in the top 5 at least
> 
> but, they’re up overall - so, no complaints really


Once this never ending 24/7 Trump bashing subsides (it won't, Democrats just can't help themselves... kind of like a user on this forum), it should be back in the Top 5 or 10. Only when there's been a "must-see TV" event, has there been a drop-off. That goes for both AEW and NXT. However, it's becoming quite clear which show fans have been watching.


----------



## MrThortan

Excellent to see the viewers go up. Though demo may be more important, the number of viewers is shiny. Even though this weeks show had some dull moments, I still enjoyed it. I can't help but think they have a plan set for the long haul and things will only get better. Would love to see them bump over a million views consistently.


----------



## AEW_19

taker1986 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Has this been confirmed yet or just rumoured to be happening. I think they should do a small arena and if ticket interest is high enough then go for somewhere like the O2 Arena next time.











Cody Rhodes: All Elite Wrestling '100 percent' coming to the UK in 2020


Cody Rhodes has said it himself: he went from undesirable in WWE to undeniable in the greater world of professional wrestling. Undesirable to some, anyway. A nine-year main roster career in WWE saw…




talksport.com


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Nice bump in viewers and a slight bump in demo. Dropping from 3rd to 11th looks bad but numbers across all metrics were up so that is good. 

Reiterating that Charlotte is no draw despite the endless title reigns and kayfabe accomplishments.

The 10 lashes was a spectacle. Even my wife who kinda watches was glued to the TV. Going in I was like OK I will give it a chance but I wasn't that excited but it delivered and then some.


----------



## Aedubya

So is that 6 weeks in a row they have topped NXT?


----------



## captainzombie

imthegame19 said:


> You know he won't admit this lol. He will make up some theory or spin and act like it's something legit. Just like he's saying NXT really winning the ratings every week. The guy is sad and delusional. He has zero credibility on anything AEW related. Since he hates the company so much he will make crap up to push negative agenda anyway he can.
> 
> 
> At this point we just gotta laugh off every thing he says. Cuz he takes his hate for the company to far and can't admit to them being successful in anyway lol. I dunno why the whole forum hasn't put him on ignore by now. Hes never going to change and always be pulling this fake news hater agenda crap.


He's already on my ignore list along with several others at this point. It's one thing to criticize the product if you are watching it every week and another when he was making negative statements about the product and admit he doesn't watch. What was the last straw for me was seeing how he had 900+ posts in a matter of a month just in the AEW threads. I also love to talk about wrestling just like he said he does, but why keep padding your post count and talking shit about a product you don't watch?

I posted this also in this weeks AEW thread, I was a bit iffy about last nights ending as it felt so drawn out. The more I think about it all this morning and if you have been following wrestling since the 80s, Cody has the best teacher that taught him all this drama........his dad Dusty. Dusty did the same stuff in the 80’s and it went over very well, setup a lot of dramatic storylines. Granted we’ve about seen everything now in wrestling over the years, I feel like Cody is trying to bring back the flare and drama that his dad had back in the NWA and WCW days which people loved. 

At the end of the day, the 10 lashes worked for ratings and pulling in people while many of us groaned at it when this was announced almost a month ago.


----------



## Taroostyles

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Nice bump in viewers and a slight bump in demo. Dropping from 3rd to 11th looks bad but numbers across all metrics were up so that is good.
> 
> Reiterating that Charlotte is no draw despite the endless title reigns and kayfabe accomplishments.
> 
> The 10 lashes was a spectacle. Even my wife who kinda watches was glued to the TV. Going in I was like OK I will give it a chance but I wasn't that excited but it delivered and then some.


They really only dropped from 3rd to 11th tbough cause all the news shows were up with the Impeachment announcement coming out yesterday.


----------



## Jonhern

Garty said:


> If it hasn't been said already, that's exactly the reason for the huge drop. There's no other reason otherwise.


 it's the lease and expenses related to them moving corporate headquarters to the former UBS building in downtown Stamford.


----------



## Jonhern

Garty said:


> It's because the "rumors" that Woodsy said were verified false, turned out to be true. They make zero dinero and are just giving it away, ONLY to try and stop AEW. If they were making even once cent, it would be in the report. It's not. There's your answer. No way to spin it. Fact. Google it.


Not true, they are making something from it just don't know how much as they don't break up the specific numbers in the report, it's all under media. Someone even asked in the conference call and they wouldn't say how much nxt was or the international deals. Also would not say what the profit margin for the network is. Anyway, the one clue to them getting something is the change in definition for what core media content rights cover. Before it did not list NXT, and now it does.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Up in key demo, up in numbers
> 
> its a shame they overall dropped in rankings - is this the first time they‘re out of the top 10?
> 
> some of those shows shouldn’t be beating them - ideally they’re always in the top 5 at least
> 
> but, they’re up overall - so, no complaints really


No it's not the first time, and really not a big deal considering what pushed them out, just a one time thing because of news. They are top 4 non news show for the night.


----------



## Roxinius

Waiting for the resident Aew hater to spin this into a negative for Aew


----------



## K4L318

Roxinius said:


> Waiting for the resident Aew hater to spin this into a negative for Aew


The Wood gon respond to this. ?


----------



## imthegame19

K4L318 said:


> The Wood gon respond to this. ?


Lol he's probably trying to cook up some idiotic theory that Nielsen rating system is on Khan Family pay roll lol.


----------



## bdon

We know what he’ll say:

“Well, given the Nielsen themselves say the numbers are subject to being off by 10%, that means the 928k that AEW got was actually 835k viewers, and NXT’s 770k was actually closer to 847k viewers giving NXT the win.”


----------



## Jonhern

Yel


bdon said:


> We know what he’ll say:
> 
> “Well, given the Nielsen themselves say the numbers are subject to being off by 10%, that means the 928k that AEW got was actually 835k viewers, and NXT’s 770k was actually closer to 847k viewers giving NXT the win.”


Yep because that's how margin of error works, one gets it fully subtracted and the other one fully added. Statistics are easy like that ?


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> We know what he’ll say:
> 
> “Well, given the Nielsen themselves say the numbers are subject to being off by 10%, that means the 928k that AEW got was actually 835k viewers, and NXT’s 770k was actually closer to 847k viewers giving NXT the win.”


Lol of course some made up numbers. That he uses to use as negative towards AEW. How original from him hahaha. It couldn't be AEW really over 1 million and NXT closer to 680?

Of course not cuz that wouldn't work towards his agenda. Does he really think he's fooling anyone with this crap? Or is he just delusional?


It's basically going be same old thing with that guy. Make up some crap or make big deal about something that puts AEW in a negative light. By attempting to debunk something positive by saying its a lie or using his personal wishful thinking negative theories as facts.


Then when people call him out on his crap. He replies with same nonsense over and over again repeating himself in a long post. Which leads to people either putting him on ignore. Or just ignoring his reply. While he goes to bed thinking he convinced people he was right. When in reality they took him as a joke and ignored him. I'm guessing as soon as comes on everything just i mentioned will happen lol.


----------



## bdon

I like @The Wood, and I think he is legitimately a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to wrestling. Just lets his biases get in the way.

I was poking fun and didn’t mean to make it seem like dog-piling and kicking while his argument is down.


----------



## LongPig666

Aedubya said:


> So is that 6 weeks in a row they have topped NXT?


Yes, by quite a margin as well. In the last 6 weeks average viewers for AEW is 0.91m, for NXT it's 0.70m.

On another interesting note, NXT have only beat AEW three times since last September; *1.* When Finn Balor joined NXT and *2.* Run up to Survivor series. Seems Ric's daughter is not that big a draw.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Okay then Woodsy. Since you've given us YOUR "proof" of studying the ratings, what is it exactly you're trying to spin here? What other way can you read, "8000 more people watched show A and 8000 less people watched show B". Estimated or not, those are the numbers. So if that doesn't seem true to your "opinion", why do constantly bring up the estimated 10% + or - for both AEW and NXT? I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure that you have. Using the 10% maximum, either more or less, what's the average highest of highs for AEW and what's the average lowest of lows for NXT? Now, repeat the same steps, using the highest of highs for NXT and the lowest of lows for AEW. Does your "proof" still hold water, or are you going to spin it because you hold that notion of NXT always being the "winner" and "in the realm of possibility, taking into account that + or - 10%", so close to the vest? You have said, there's no way that AEW is the one that has the majority of that +10%. That it's impossible to believe the actual numbers are true. That something must be wrong with their calculations?
> 
> Oh and that CBS report you've mentioned in many threads, including this one, about the company wanting to "leave/quit" the Nielsen Ratings System, is over 14 months old and as said in the article:
> 
> _- CBS is seeking “a competitive rate” from Nielsen given that there are more measurement alternatives available for a marketplace that has moved well past the linear TV ratings that Nielsen has delivered for decades.
> - A CBS spokesperson declined to comment. A Nielsen rep indicated that CBS’ threat to drop the service was posturing amid tough contract talks. “We expect to arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement well in advance of Dec. 31,” a Nielsen spokesman said.
> 
> - In truth, CBS may be hard-pressed to abandon Nielsen entirely. The company has long been the standard of measurement in the media industry, and has worked in recent years to start measuring viewers who watch TV in new ways.
> 
> - One person close to the negotiations portrayed the talks as ongoing. “There have never been any issues with CBS,” this person said. “They’ve always been progressive-minded measurement partners that have helped to develop important industry innovations that are used across the market today.”_
> 
> Here is a more detailed report (Forbes Magazine) on the initial story Woodsy linked
> Can CBS Go Without Nielsen?
> 
> TAKE NOTE that after about 12 days of negotiations between the two sides, CBS renewed their contract with Nielsen. I guess you left that part out, huh? Here is that report:
> CBS, Nielsen End Standoff With New Deal


Lol, I'm not trying to "spin" anything. You are trying to project that onto me, so why don't you tell me? 

"Estimated or not those are the numbers." Do you know what an estimation is? 

Why are you putting your own words into quotation marks? You keep saying "proof." My "proof' is that there is a 10% margin of error with the Nielsen ratings, so when you have a show "winning" by 8k, you've got to pretty careful about taking those numbers literally. That is all. For some reason, this common sensical suggestion really seems to rub AEW fanboys the wrong way. Wait until they start using it when NXT starts to beat AEW. 

You've just totally made up everything else you've attached to that. I've never said that AEW would always be over by 10% and NXT under. That's 100% _your_ bullshit. But that's what you've got to do to try and have a "gotcha" moment over me, because dealing with the things I actually say would just be too hard. 

Dude, I said that CBS _almost_ dropped them. It's implied in that they didn't drop them, you fucking Garty lol. I didn't "leave it out," nor is it some massive shock they stayed with them. But the idea that Nielsen provide some sort of cutting edge insight into the living rooms with a 0.1% margin of error is completely ridiculous, and their validity _has_ been questioned. It doesn't matter if it was 14 months ago lol. 



optikk sucks said:


> uh uh uh 10%!!!! Nelson overestimate by 10%!!!!!


I didn't say that Nielsen overestimate by 10%. I said that there is a 10% margin of error with their estimations. That is not really debatable.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> @The Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook
> 
> 
> WWE® Reports 2019 Results and 2020 Business Outlook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> corporate.wwe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in the report about NXT. Why is that?


There is something about NXT in there. They say it has more reach. Not sure what they are making off it. Could be $35-$60 million like people have speculated, or it could be much less. It's possible that NXT runs at a deficit or it could be profitable. Not really sure why it's so important, since they're part of a giant corporation that is reporting record revenue. It would be better for them if they were getting paid out the ass for it, but it's not really a catastrophe if they're not. It's the difference between $500 million in TV rights a year and $550 million in TV rights. 



Pippen94 said:


> Charlotte hot shoting no impact


Lol, hot-shotting is a dramatic term to use here. 



imthegame19 said:


> You know he won't admit this lol. He will make up some theory or spin and act like it's something legit. Just like he's saying NXT really winning the ratings every week. The guy is sad and delusional. He has zero credibility on anything AEW related. Since he hates the company so much he will make crap up to push negative agenda anyway he can.
> 
> 
> At this point we just gotta laugh off every thing he says. Cuz he takes his hate for the company to far and can't admit to them being successful in anyway lol. I dunno why the whole forum hasn't put him on ignore by now. Hes never going to change and always be pulling this fake news hater agenda crap.


I've never said that NXT is really winning the ratings every week. Ironically, that is sad and delusional on your part, if you actually read that from me. What I've said is that there is a 10% margin of error with Nielsen's ratings, and that fanboys shouldn't take the numbers _literally_.

Apparently Googling "are Nielsen ratings reliable?" is too hard for some people on here.


----------



## K4L318

dat clown is back politicking for NXT.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> There is something about NXT in there. They say it has more reach. Not sure what they are making off it. Could be $35-$60 million like people have speculated, or it could be much less. It's possible that NXT runs at a deficit or it could be profitable. Not really sure why it's so important, since they're part of a giant corporation that is reporting record revenue. It would be better for them if they were getting paid out the ass for it, but it's not really a catastrophe if they're not. It's the difference between $500 million in TV rights a year and $550 million in TV rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, hot-shotting is a dramatic term to use here.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never said that NXT is really winning the ratings every week. Ironically, that is sad and delusional on your part, if you actually read that from me. What I've said is that there is a 10% margin of error with Nielsen's ratings, and that fanboys shouldn't take the numbers _literally_.
> 
> Apparently Googling "are Nielsen ratings reliable?" is too hard for some people on here.


Its important cause you said quite crazily that the nxt move to USA had nothing to with aew but was just for revenue. Turns out nxt is making zilch while network subscriptions plummeted, so factoring share slumping it's cost wwe millions. Point being your bullshit stinks


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Lol, I'm not trying to "spin" anything. You are trying to project that onto me, so why don't you tell me?
> 
> "Estimated or not those are the numbers." Do you know what an estimation is?
> 
> Why are you putting your own words into quotation marks? You keep saying "proof." My "proof' is that there is a 10% margin of error with the Nielsen ratings, so when you have a show "winning" by 8k, you've got to pretty careful about taking those numbers literally. That is all. For some reason, this common sensical suggestion really seems to rub AEW fanboys the wrong way. Wait until they start using it when NXT starts to beat AEW.
> 
> You've just totally made up everything else you've attached to that. I've never said that AEW would always be over by 10% and NXT under. That's 100% _your_ bullshit. But that's what you've got to do to try and have a "gotcha" moment over me, because dealing with the things I actually say would just be too hard.
> 
> Dude, I said that CBS _almost_ dropped them. It's implied in that they didn't drop them, you fucking Garty lol. I didn't "leave it out," nor is it some massive shock they stayed with them. But the idea that Nielsen provide some sort of cutting edge insight into the living rooms with a 0.1% margin of error is completely ridiculous, and their validity _has_ been questioned. It doesn't matter if it was 14 months ago lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say that Nielsen overestimate by 10%. I said that there is a 10% margin of error with their estimations. That is not really debatable.


Aew must have crushed it in ratings cause wood is talking about how inaccurate Nielsen is.


----------



## bdon

You HAVE suggested that the numbers are close enough that the 10% margin of error could easily suggest NXT has won every week. You’ve IMPLIED that AEW has won by 8k viewers every week. When I said that the numbers being within earshot of each other only occurred 3 times, you said I was wrong, and it HAD to be way more than that.

I WAS wrong: it was actually 4 times, not 3. So, if one more is “way more“ to you, then I guess you were right.


----------



## bdon

But again, I don’t give a fuck really who wins the ratings, because despite never having watched NXT, I enjoy the fact knowing there are roughly 1.5-1.6 million fans who actively choose a product that is different than WWE.

And make no mistake about it, with time and exposure, that number is very likely going to increase.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Great rating for AEW, back up over 900k and ratings seems stable. Can they get to 1m, that will be a real sign of growing the audience.

I don't think NXT will compete for viewers unless AEW numbers drop, maybe for a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania. But most normal weeks, its not happening.


----------



## DOTL

Dark Emperor said:


> Great rating for AEW, back up over 900k and ratings seems stable. Can they get to 1m, that will be a real sign of growing the audience.
> 
> I don't think NXT will compete for viewers unless AEW numbers drop, maybe for a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania. But most normal weeks, its not happening.


 I don’t want to speak in absolutes, but I think it’s too late for NXT to hurt AEW. The brand is more solidified and people are invested in its stories. I think it’s clear now who’re the weak links and who’s a draw,and unlike WWE, they’re proving they’re willing to drop storylines that aren’t working. A few more months of this and NXT will be better off moving back to the Network.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Its important cause you said quite crazily that the nxt move to USA had nothing to with aew but was just for revenue. Turns out nxt is making zilch while network subscriptions plummeted, so factoring share slumping it's cost wwe millions. Point being your bullshit stinks


I didn’t say it had nothing to do with AEW. Fuck’s sake, stop lying. I said that there were always plans to monetize NXT (no shit) and that they were always on Wednesday nights. There’s nothing incorrect in that statement at all, other than you don’t like it so you change it to be something that is ridiculous for you to dismiss.

Sounds like Vince is planning to move PPVs to a streaming service, so he will probably get paid a few hundred million for that, which makes it more valuable than the Network anyway. Also would like evidence that they getting “zilch,” not that it even matters given the profits this company, right or erong



Pippen94 said:


> Aew must have crushed it in ratings cause wood is talking about how inaccurate Nielsen is.


That doesn’t make sense. Try harder. 



bdon said:


> You HAVE suggested that the numbers are close enough that the 10% margin of error could easily suggest NXT has won every week. You’ve IMPLIED that AEW has won by 8k viewers every week. When I said that the numbers being within earshot of each other only occurred 3 times, you said I was wrong, and it HAD to be way more than that.
> 
> I WAS wrong: it was actually 4 times, not 3. So, if one more is “way more“ to you, then I guess you were right.


If they fall within the 10% margin of error, then yes, it would be possible that more people actually watched NXT live than AEW. That’s how a margin of error works.



bdon said:


> But again, I don’t give a fuck really who wins the ratings, because despite never having watched NXT, I enjoy the fact knowing there are roughly 1.5-1.6 million fans who actively choose a product that is different than WWE.
> 
> And make no mistake about it, with time and exposure, that number is very likely going to increase.


Disagree that it is going to increase in the AEW side, but we’ll see. There should be A LOT more people.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> Great rating for AEW, back up over 900k and ratings seems stable. Can they get to 1m, that will be a real sign of growing the audience.
> 
> I don't think NXT will compete for viewers unless AEW numbers drop, maybe for a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania. But most normal weeks, its not happening.


The problem is WWE tried to push NXT as a third brand, but did they really consider it as a third brand? Not really. If, at the draft, we see guys like Reigns, Rollins, Lesnar etc move to NXT then yes they consider it as another third brand
But they won’t do that because they’re not getting money for being on USA.
NXT will probably not be on USA after 2020/1.
NXT could get paid for being on minor channels like what Impact had to do.


----------



## bdon

Actually, from what it sounds, Vince plans to give the Big 4 to Fox or what have you in order to get the rights fees, but if you’re an investor, are you in fine with that given you just killed the Network, which is already dropping with no expectations of much increase Q1?

Yes, you get the big rights fee for the one off show, but you lose the main reason people are signed up for the Network.

It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but the investors aren’t likely to see it that way.


----------



## shadows123

bdon said:


> Actually, from what it sounds, Vince plans to give the Big 4 to Fox or what have you in order to get the rights fees, but if you’re an investor, are you in fine with that given you just killed the Network, which is already dropping with no expectations of much increase Q1?
> 
> Yes, you get the big rights fee for the one off show, but you lose the main reason people are signed up for the Network.
> 
> It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but the investors aren’t likely to see it that way.


I think the way Vince and probably the investors see it is that the network is not growing as they hoped for when they set out. The upkeep is probably high with all these crap loss making shows they have to produce etc. Selling the PPV's to a television probably would make up for this through ad revenues.


----------



## Erik.

Dark Emperor said:


> Great rating for AEW, back up over 900k and ratings seems stable. Can they get to 1m, that will be a real sign of growing the audience.
> 
> I don't think NXT will compete for viewers unless AEW numbers drop, maybe for a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania. But most normal weeks, its not happening.


They should REALLY be hoping for a million following Revolution, I feel.


----------



## Dark Emperor

bdon said:


> Actually, from what it sounds, Vince plans to give the Big 4 to Fox or what have you in order to get the rights fees, but if you’re an investor, are you in fine with that given you just killed the Network, which is already dropping with no expectations of much increase Q1?
> 
> Yes, you get the big rights fee for the one off show, but you lose the main reason people are signed up for the Network.
> 
> It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but the investors aren’t likely to see it that way.


I honestly don't think most suscribers get the net work for the PPVs. Only Wrestlemainia, Rumble and Summerslam are big events and must see. 

But Wrestlemania should never have been on the Network except maybe the first couple of years it launched. It's way too big an event to be part of the network. Especially as they are stupidly still giving away 1month trial during Wrestlemana season.

So a show like that should be moved to Fox or other Networks depending who wins bidding. I'd say Summerslam too. The others should stay on the Network


----------



## imthegame19

Rating breakdown from last week.



AEW opened with 911,000 viewers and 476,000 in 18-49 with Jon Moxley doing an interview and being confronted by the Inner Circle.


The second quarter for AEW was MJF with The Butcher, Bunny and Blade in a video at the meat packing place and the beginning of Young Bucks vs. Butcher & Blade. That lost 80,000(831,000) viewers overall and 20,000 in 18-49, but also had two breaks.



had the ending of Young Bucks vs. Butcher & Blade, the post-match with Kenny Omega and Adam Page making the save, and Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole. They lost 31,000 viewers(800,000) overall and lost 39,000 in 18-49. 



In the fourth quarter, AEW had Cody vs. Kip Sabian and gained 79,000 viewers(879,000) and 33,000 in 18-49.


In the fifth quarter, AEW had the end of Cody vs. Sabian and promos with the Young Bucks, Omega & Page as well as the Tony Schiavone interview with Dr. Britt Baker, and gained 5,000 viewers(884,000) and 16,000 in 18-49.


The sixth quarter was Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky vs. Jack Evans & Angelico which lost 115,000 viewers(769,000)and 51,000 in 18-49. 



The seventh quarter saw AEW with a Pac interview and beginning of Jericho & Santana & Ortiz vs. Private Party & Darby Allin, which gained 5,000(774,000) viewers but lost 5,000 in 18-49. 



The final quarter saw AEW with Jericho & Santana & Ortiz vs. Private Party & Allin and the post-match beatdown and Moxley save, gaining 3,000 viewers(779,000) and losing 2,000 in 18-49. 


Moxley promo, Cody match really carried this show.


----------



## Jonhern

bdon said:


> Actually, from what it sounds, Vince plans to give the Big 4 to Fox or what have you in order to get the rights fees, but if you’re an investor, are you in fine with that given you just killed the Network, which is already dropping with no expectations of much increase Q1?
> 
> Yes, you get the big rights fee for the one off show, but you lose the main reason people are signed up for the Network.
> 
> It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but the investors aren’t likely to see it that way.





shadows123 said:


> I think the way Vince and probably the investors see it is that the network is not growing as they hoped for when they set out. The upkeep is probably high with all these crap loss making shows they have to produce etc. Selling the PPV's to a television probably would make up for this through ad revenues.


In the conference call Vince said the network was not a must-have, so if the rights deal means having to get rid of the network sounds like he will do that. They also did not revise projections for revenue and said they could announce it as early as this quarter. That means they won't do it unless its at least as much revenue that they get from the network currently. 

Anyway, to stay a little on topic, lol, since this is an AEW thread, this is why I have been saying AEW should not start their own service. It's just not worth it when they can just partner with an established partner and likely get the same amount of money out of it with a lot fewer headaches because they would not have to run and maintain the actual platform. The amount of content they would need to run their own service would take years to build, and even WWE is having trouble selling their huge back catalog that AEW would likely be dead in the water if they did a standalone streaming service. Only the diehard of diehard fans joining would mean high operating cost per customer. It would make much more sense to do something with BR Live or the new HBO max or whatever it will be called.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Netflix service would be fantastic.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW at 4 PPVs per year, at 20 bucks a pop (international) is a sweet spot IMO

maybe throw in a special or two at the US market for free that international pays 20 bucks for , to offset the high price the US has to pay and you’re solid

the Fite streaming service is also great

these guys are killing it IMO


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Another good rating? Perfection. AEW STILL kicking ass. Love to see it.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Its important cause you said quite crazily that the nxt move to USA had nothing to with aew but was just for revenue. Turns out nxt is making zilch while network subscriptions plummeted, so factoring share slumping it's cost wwe millions. Point being your bullshit stinks


You ever going to provide proof the NXT is getting nothing to to air on USA. Because that rumor has no legs.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Actually, from what it sounds, Vince plans to give the Big 4 to Fox or what have you in order to get the rights fees, but if you’re an investor, are you in fine with that given you just killed the Network, which is already dropping with no expectations of much increase Q1?
> 
> Yes, you get the big rights fee for the one off show, but you lose the main reason people are signed up for the Network.
> 
> It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but the investors aren’t likely to see it that way.


Investors are not going to give a shit about the WWE Network if the WWE makes more money from rights fees. WWE will probably make nine figures from the deal. The investors will set fire to the Network themselves.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> Investors are not going to give a shit about the WWE Network if the WWE makes more money from rights fees. WWE will probably make nine figures from the deal. The investors will set fire to the Network themselves.


Given the numbers of 1.5m paying subscribers this is around 15m usd. Makes 180m a year. It would surprise me if they will get less than that for the big4 and if you still pump new content into the network they could still keep it above 1m subscribers, especially non-domestic. So you will lose just 60m but make 180m more. So why not.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Great ratings. As for the network, I stopped using it after SummerSlam and only kept it for the Royal Rumble and after WrestleMania I plan on canceling. I've been a subscriber since Jan of '18.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

fabi1982 said:


> Given the numbers of 1.5m paying subscribers this is around 15m usd. Makes 180m a year. It would surprise me if they will get less than that for the big4 and if you still pump new content into the network they could still keep it above 1m subscribers, especially non-domestic. So you will lose just 60m but make 180m more. So why not.


You think the big 4 would garner $180 million a year in revenue? That is 3 million buys at $60/buy and that doesnt even count the providers cut. Seems steep to me to expect 750k buys for all 4, even if Mania gets a million, that is still 665k+ buys for events that never got close to those numbers for years when people were trained to pay for them, which they aren't now.

I don't see it.


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> You think the big 4 would garner $180 million a year in revenue? That is 3 million buys at $60/buy and that doesnt even count the providers cut. Seems steep to me to expect 750k buys for all 4, even if Mania gets a million, that is still 665k+ buys for events that never got close to those numbers for years when people were trained to pay for them, which they aren't now.
> 
> I don't see it.


Why should they pay for it when they show it on FOX? Like it was said it should be similar to Super Bowl, not paid by the viewer but paid by the advertiser. Doesnt make any sense if they put it on PPV and I dont think this is what Vince has in mind.


----------



## bdon

No. Vince’s vision is for the Big 4 to get the rights fees. Fox would be paying for the viewership.

Which I have a hard time seeing as being worth it for 4 shows a year.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> No. Vince’s vision is for the Big 4 to get the rights fees. Fox would be paying for the viewership.
> 
> Which I have a hard time seeing as being worth it for 4 shows a year.


Right. They pay $200 million for 52 Smackdowns. No way they’d pay $180 million for 4 shows lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> You think the big 4 would garner $180 million a year in revenue? That is 3 million buys at $60/buy and that doesnt even count the providers cut. Seems steep to me to expect 750k buys for all 4, even if Mania gets a million, that is still 665k+ buys for events that never got close to those numbers for years when people were trained to pay for them, which they aren't now.
> 
> I don't see it.


The big 4 also attracts ads, merch, stadium revenue and all the sundries that are included


----------



## bdon

XFL started today.

How stupid. Why didn’t they sign Tom Brady for $100m a year? If you’re trying to really compete, you need to give it credibility. AAF will start pummeling it in ratings soon.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> XFL started today.
> 
> How stupid. Why didn’t they sign Tom Brady for $100m a year? If you’re trying to really compete, you need to give it credibility. AAF will start pummeling it in ratings soon.



I agree sadly Vince is already losing like 300 million a year on it until they get tv deal. So he can't pay for talent like that until they make tv money. But yeah that would be like starting AEW without Jericho, Moxley, Cody,Omega, Page, Pac and Young Bucks. Or even Dustin Rhodes or Hager really.


Trying to sell people on Darby, MJF, Janela, Guevara, Sabian, Luchasurus, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Wardlow etc would have been a disaster.


----------



## imthegame19

I noticed all the Moxley/Jericho stuff is doing strong YouTube views.

Eye spike to Moxley got 3.7 million views, Moxley swerve on joining Inner Circle did 2.8 million. Even last two weeks with opening promo and this week eye for eye segment did 1.3 and 1.2 million views.


Even Moxley/Pac and Moxley/Omega stuff did over million views. In comparison Cody 10 lashing has 633,000 views. While highlights of Moxley/Darby did 777,000 views. Jericho/Darby did 598,000.


Highlights of Cody/Darby on tv did 113,000 and when AEW released full Fyter Fest match YouTube going into Dynamite it did 150,000 views. When AEW put up full Moxley/Janela match from Fyter Fest to hype of Dynamite match. Well it got 1.4 million views. With highlights from their tv match getting 921,000 views.


When you look at ratings and rating breakdowns and YouTube views etc. Well it's becoming more and more obvious that Moxley AEW biggest star and they need to go all in on him. They still haven't done below 850,000 viewer rating when he's had an advertised match on. With their two lowest rated shows being with Moxley not on the show(12/18) or with him appearing on tv for like 2 minutes(11/27).


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> You think the big 4 would garner $180 million a year in revenue? That is 3 million buys at $60/buy and that doesnt even count the providers cut. Seems steep to me to expect 750k buys for all 4, even if Mania gets a million, that is still 665k+ buys for events that never got close to those numbers for years when people were trained to pay for them, which they aren't now.
> 
> I don't see it.


They would be getting the money from the networks. Bellator got nine figures for a deal with DAZN that is split with Paramount. Way more money in this than you’re thinking. 



bdon said:


> XFL started today.
> 
> How stupid. Why didn’t they sign Tom Brady for $100m a year? If you’re trying to really compete, you need to give it credibility. AAF will start pummeling it in ratings soon.


You’re completely cooked, mate.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The EVPs in AEW are fighting over control of the company.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1225938649302421504
So AEW is in turmoil now. This is what happens when you let and have wrestlers in charge of booking shows.


----------



## Ozell Gray

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226246676509274112


----------



## Ozell Gray

https://mobile.twitter.com/login


----------



## Ozell Gray

https://mobile.twitter.com/SoDuTw


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> The EVPs in AEW are fighting over control of the company.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1225938649302421504
> So AEW is in turmoil now. This is what happens when you let and have wrestlers in charge of booking shows.


Please use some legit source not people on Twitter making stuff up. There are other dirt sheet guys then Meltzer around.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Matt calling BTE the Black Sheep of the AEW. Pushed various directions and signees that didn't happen.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Please use some legit source not people on Twitter making stuff up. There are other dirt sheet guys then Meltzer around.


Rovert is a insider so how is he not a credible source? Just because hes speaking negatively on AEW doesn't take away from his credibility.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Wow a report that The Elite are fighting for power at the same time that The Elite is breaking apart at the seams in a storyline on TV. I feel like this is nothing more than storyline progression to blur the lines between real life and kayfabe. BTE is the "black sheep" as in it's not in cannon, neither is Sammy's Vlog. The storyline of Sammy being Jericho's protégé, MJF's true feelings about Cody, the entire reason the Librarians were a thing and Hangman's drinking all started on BTE. Matt is 100% correct in his statement that because it's not apart of AEW they can try shit without storyline repercussions. If they get good feedback from fans and talent they might bring it up at production meetings to get okayed. You, and this guy, are being played.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Wow a report that The Elite are fighting for power at the same time that The Elite is breaking apart at the seams in a storyline on TV. I feel like this is nothing more than storyline progression to blur the lines between real life and kayfabe. BTE is the "black sheep" as in it's not in cannon, neither is Sammy's Vlog. The storyline of Sammy being Jericho's protégé, MJF's true feelings about Cody, the entire reason the Librarians were a thing and Hangman's drinking all started on BTE. Matt is 100% correct in his statement that because it's not apart of AEW they can try shit without storyline repercussions. If they get good feedback from fans and talent they might bring it up at production meetings to get okayed. You, and this guy, are being played.


Read the the other tweets from my other posts this isn't a storyline.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lmao there’s no cracks

don’t be dumb guys


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Lmao there’s no cracks
> 
> don’t be dumb guys


There obviously are if a credible insider like Rovert is saying it. And lets not forget Rovert was also the one to say months ago that Marty Scurll was going to re-sign with ROH AND HE TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT. Theres obviously some infighting happening in AEW thats not being reported by WON.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> There obviously are if a credible insider like Rovert is saying it. And lets not forget Rovert was also the one to say months ago that Marty Scurll was going to re-sign with ROH AND HE TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT. Theres obviously some infighting happening in AEW thats not being reported by WON.


I don’t know who Rovert is, but the storylines on AEW coincidentally coincide with these backstage goings on?

guys getting played. the blur between realism and kayfabe was a key attitude era staple. And that’s what TK has been studying. All of the EVPs, people in AEW etc have said TK is the boss and makes the final decision.To have a power struggle over a position where there’s no power. Yeah no chance.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t know who Rovert is, but the storylines on AEW coincidentally coincide with these backstage goings on?
> 
> guys getting played. the blur between realism and kayfabe was a key attitude era staple. And that’s what TK has been studying. All of the EVPs, people in AEW etc have said TK is the boss and makes the final decision.To have a power struggle over a position where there’s no power. Yeah no chance.


I don't think you're understanding what Rovert is saying. What hes saying is theres real backstage heat between the EVPs. Its not a atoryline because AEW doesn't have a storyline like that on tv so this isn't a work or storyline. 

Tony Khan has final say but he lets the EVPs book the shows and theres disagreements and arguments with each other that the EVPs are having thats what Rovert is reporting. Theres real tensions in this company that fans don't want to believe exists for some reason. Thats why it was a bad idea from the start making the wrestlers EVPs. So there is real tension but its not as bad yet because it hasn't been reported on as of yet. But once it does get really bad and it will then you'll see it reported on by dirtsheets.


----------



## EmbassyForever

lmao. rovert is a joke. stop embarrassing yourself, buddy.


----------



## Ozell Gray

EmbassyForever said:


> lmao. rovert is a joke. stop embarrassing yourself, buddy.


Im not embarrassing myself unlike you. You're the one embassing yourself.

Yet he turned out to be right about Marty Scurll re-signing with ROH months before it happened. So hes obviously a credible source. You just don't like it because its something negative about AEW.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Im not embarrassing myself unlike you. You're the one embassing yourself.
> 
> Yet he turned out to be right about Marty Scurll re-signing with ROH months before it happened. So hes obviously a credible source. You just don't like it because its something negative about AEW.


Guessing right about something doesn't make him a credible source. I guessed right that Goldberg would face Bray at Super Showdown. Does that mean I have sources too? Marty saying with the company he was with was always a possibility. Saying Meltzer knows stuff and is hiding things doesn't work either. 


If there was issues Mike Johnson, Wade Keller, Fightful and other sites would be reporting this. It's not like Dave is only dirt sheet guy. So the excuse of the guy saying oh it's happening Dave not reporting it doesn't work. This just like the fake Twitter reports of people hiding what really happen with Kylie Rye.


Basically this guy heard report that Tony Khan was taking more control of the booking. So this guy spinned it that EVPs have heat as the reason. Hoping that his guess would be right. Since it would make sense for Khan to take a larger role in booking then. But it also makes sense for Tony Khan to want to take control of his show. When ratings dropped, with bad feedback from fans and NXT beating them like 3 of 5 weeks. That seems like what really happened. So please stop posting fake Twitter rumors. When there's no evidence at all to back up his theories.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Ozell Gray said:


> Read the the other tweets from my other posts this isn't a storyline.


So I clicked on one of the tweets and read some more of his stuff that you didn't put up. I'll summarize for those that haven't done that.

Apparently the Nightmare Collective is 100% Brandi's creation. She is the one coming up with the storyline for them. Kenny who is overall control of the women's division realized that story wasn't working he shit canned it w/o informing Brandi. 

That is where the tension is. However, Brandi is not an EVP so I'm not sure where he's getting that click-bait title from. As for Tony taking "more control", if anyone has been paying attention to anything within this company you can see Tony has been becoming more and more involved with the creative and booking process as time has gone on. My suspicions is because he is learning as he goes and instead of taking full control from the jump, he is actually doing the correct thing someone should do in his position and take his time to learn from guys in the business and slowly gain power as he gains confidence. 

Again, this is not as big of a story as this guy is making it out to be.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Guessing right about something doesn't make him a credible source. I guessed right that Goldberg would face Bray at Super Showdown. Does that mean I have sources too? You act like Meltzer knows stuff and is hiding things.
> 
> 
> If there was issues Mike Johnson, Wade Keller, Fightful and other sites would be reporting this. It's not like Dave is only dirt sheet guy. So the excuse of the guy saying oh it's happening Dave not reporting it doesn't work. This just like the fake Twitter reports of people hiding what really happen with Kylie Rye.
> 
> 
> Basically this guy heard report that Tony Khan was taking more control of the booking. So this guy spinned it that EVPs have heat as the reason. Hoping that his guess would be right. Since it would make sense for Khan to take a larger role in booking then. But it also makes sense for Tony Khan to want to take control of his show. When ratings dropped, with bad feedback from fans and NXT beating them like 3 of 5 weeks. That seems like what really happened. So please stop posting fake Twitter rumors. When there's no evidence at all to back up his theories.


But the funny part about it is that he didn't guess he said his sources in ROH told him that Scurll was going to re-sign with the company and he was right. So since he was right about that situation that does make him a credible insider. He didn't guess on anything he reported what his sources told him. Meltzer does know things but he doesn't report everything is what Rovert said not me. 

Most Dirtsheets that you most of their news about AEW comes from Meltzer since hes the one with the inside scoop on things. The other dirtsheets you named are only credible when its WWE and Impact Wrestling since PWInsider and Fightful Pro Wrestling actually has sources in those 2 companies.

Its not fake twitter rumors you're just saying that it is because its AEW and you like AEW. So please stop claiming things as fake and false because its something negative about AEW.


----------



## imthegame19

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> So I clicked on one of the tweets and read some more of his stuff that you didn't put up. I'll summarize for those that haven't done that.
> 
> Apparently the Nightmare Collective is 100% Brandi's creation. She is the one coming up with the storyline for them. Kenny who is overall control of the women's division realized that story wasn't working he shit canned it w/o informing Brandi.
> 
> That is where the tension is. However, Brandi is not an EVP so I'm not sure where he's getting that click-bait title from. As for Tony taking "more control", if anyone has been paying attention to anything within this company you can see Tony has been becoming more and more involved with the creative and booking process as time has gone on. My suspicions is because he is learning as he goes and instead of taking full control from the jump, he is actually doing the correct thing someone should do in his position and take his time to learn from guys in the business and slowly gain power as he gains confidence.
> 
> Again, this is not as big of a story as this guy is making it out to be.


Even Omega cancelling Nightmare Collective without telling Brandi lie makes no sense. Tony Khan has fail say and signs off on the show. So saying they just did it without Brandi knowing makes no sense. 

Not to mention they even shot the thepary segments to tease Brandi overcoming this dark side hinting they were getting rid of it too. 


Even though they left door open for her to do something else crazy since she was really talking to a doll. Plus reports are Kong leaving to go film final season of Glow. It's not like she's still going to be around. So this guys guesses don't really work here.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Oh buddy

reporters putting out kayfabe shit and yall falling into the trap


----------



## Ozell Gray

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> So I clicked on one of the tweets and read some more of his stuff that you didn't put up. I'll summarize for those that haven't done that.
> 
> Apparently the Nightmare Collective is 100% Brandi's creation. She is the one coming up with the storyline for them. Kenny who is overall control of the women's division realized that story wasn't working he shit canned it w/o informing Brandi.
> 
> That is where the tension is. However, Brandi is not an EVP so I'm not sure where he's getting that click-bait title from. As for Tony taking "more control", if anyone has been paying attention to anything within this company you can see Tony has been becoming more and more involved with the creative and booking process as time has gone on. My suspicions is because he is learning as he goes and instead of taking full control from the jump, he is actually doing the correct thing someone should do in his position and take his time to learn from guys in the business and slowly gain power as he gains confidence.
> 
> Again, this is not as big of a story as this guy is making it out to be.





TheMaskedAvenger said:


> So I clicked on one of the tweets and read some more of his stuff that you didn't put up. I'll summarize for those that haven't done that.
> 
> Apparently the Nightmare Collective is 100% Brandi's creation. She is the one coming up with the storyline for them. Kenny who is overall control of the women's division realized that story wasn't working he shit canned it w/o informing Brandi.
> 
> That is where the tension is. However, Brandi is not an EVP so I'm not sure where he's getting that click-bait title from. As for Tony taking "more control", if anyone has been paying attention to anything within this company you can see Tony has been becoming more and more involved with the creative and booking process as time has gone on. My suspicions is because he is learning as he goes and instead of taking full control from the jump, he is actually doing the correct thing someone should do in his position and take his time to learn from guys in the business and slowly gain power as he gains confidence.
> 
> Again, this is not as big of a story as this guy is making it out to be.



Yeah but remember he also said that theres tension because they pulled wrestlers off of the show during Jericho's cruise and wrestlers had to wrestle multiple times. Thats where just some of the tensions are. And the Brandi thing with Omega is because Omega dropped the Nightmare Collective gimmick and Brandi wanted it to keep going. Also Matt Jackson pushed for multiple signings that didn't happen according to Rovert. But I'll say this we don't know everything until it hits the fan and it gets reported by the dirtsheets.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> But the funny part about it is that he didn't guess he said his sources in ROH told him that Scurll was going to re-sign with the company and he was right. So since he was right about that situation that does make him a credible insider. He didn't guess on anything he reported what his sources told him. Meltzer does know things but he doesn't report everything is what Rovert said not me.
> 
> Most Dirtsheets that you most of their news about AEW comes from Meltzer since hes the one with the inside scoop on things. The other dirtsheets you named are only credible when its WWE and Impact Wrestling since PWInsider and Fightful Pro Wrestling actually has sources in those 2 companies.
> 
> Its not fake twitter rumors you're just saying that it is because its AEW and you like AEW. So please stop claiming things as fake and false because its something negative about AEW.


Lol he's not going to admit of not really having sources and guessing right. He's doing it for attention and wants people to believe him. So when he guesses right about something it's big win for him. 


If you really believe this clown. Please give me ALOT more things he was right about. Or some type of evidence. If you can't then we gotta take this as fake Twitter news. If he has this type of scoop nobody else is reporting. He should know if Brian Cage is signed or not. When Lance Archer set to debut. 


If Moxley winning title at Revolution. Is AEW signing Matt Hardy. Make him guess on too many things well a phony will be spotted. I'm sorry but saying sources say Marty will resign with ROH and guessing right. Isn't enough to make someone credible.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Oh buddy
> 
> reporters putting out kayfabe shit and yall falling into the trap


But this isn't kayfabe though. This is something thats happening behind the seens not infront of a camera. Theres arguments and disagreements and tensions backstage. So this isn't kayfabe.

But like said in the above post we don't know everything until it blows up and hits the fan. Bevause thats when it'll all come out and dirtsheets will report it.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah but remember he also said that theres tension because they pulled wrestlers off of the show during Jericho's cruise and wrestlers had to wrestle multiple times. Thats where just some of the tensions are. And the Brandi thing with Omega is because Omega dropped the Nightmare Collective gimmick and Brandi wanted it to keep going. Also Matt Jackson pushed for multiple signings that didn't happen according to Rovert. But I'll say this we don't know everything until it hits the fan and it gets reported by the dirtsheets.


All nonsense that won't ever come to light. That he will claim was real. You really believe stuff like this when there's no proof just cuz Marty resigned with ROH lol?


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> All nonsense that won't ever come to light. That he will claim was real. You really believe stuff like this when there's no proof just cuz Marty resigned with ROH lol?


Well then by your logic the claim of WWE stars being unhappy isn't true either and it'll never come to light. But you believe these reports when its WWE though huh? LOL


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Well then by your logic the claim of WWE stars being unhappy isn't true either and it'll never come to light. But you believe these reports when its WWE though huh? LOL


Except that the report you’re talking about is fact-based.
Moxley left and then spoke on it during the Jericho podcast. Other stars have publically spoken on how they feel about WWE and have asked for their release.
It’s not a report.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Well then by your logic the claim of WWE stars being unhappy isn't true either and it'll never come to light. But you believe these reports when its WWE though huh? LOL


Enough WWE stars have gone to social media to express they are unhappy. It doesn't take fake sources to guess that. Again if you wanna believe this nonsense then go ahead. But nobody around here is stupid and gonna buy this crap from some fan on Twitter lol.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Except that the report you’re talking about is fact-based.
> Moxley left and then spoke on it during the Jericho podcast. Other stars have publically spoken on how they feel about WWE and have asked for their release.
> It’s not a report.


And the report that I posted 2 hours ago is fact based. Matt Jackson sent a text meesage and Rovert posted it on twitter. Marty Scurll re-signed with ROH and theres numorous other things he has reported. So hes a credible source with this kind of track record that I just laid out to you. The Moxley thing and Harper were reported and they turned out to be true so why is it now when its AEW all of a sudden its no theres no tensions? Theres clearly some tensions if you read all of his tweets about it. He goes into details about especially on the Brandi Rhodes and Kenny Omega beef on the Nightmare Collective gimmick.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Enough WWE stars have gone to social media to express they are unhappy. It doesn't take fake sources to guess that. Again if you wanna believe this nonsense then go ahead. But nobody around here is stupid and gonna buy this crap from some fan on Twitter lol.


And Rovert has reported on alot of things that turned out to be true like Tony Khan having buyer's remorse and he turned out to be right again. Tony Khan isn't signing talent to big gaurenteed money contracts anymore just like Rovert said. 

But if you want to believe that everything is sunshine rosey then go ahead. But you'd be a dummy to believe someone like Rovert just made this up one he didn't. And again hes not a fan fan hes an insider just like Mike Johnson and Dave Meltzer LOL.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> And the report that I posted 2 hours ago is fact based. Matt Jackson sent a text meesage and Rovert posted it on twitter. Marty Scurll re-signed with ROH and theres numorous other things he has reported. So hes a credible source with this kind of track record that I just laid out to you. The Moxley thing and Harper were reported and they turned out to be true so why is it now when its AEW all of a sudden its no theres no tensions? Theres clearly some tensions if you read all of his tweets about it. He goes into details about especially on the Brandi Rhodes and Kenny Omega beef on the Nightmare Collective gimmick.


If you wanna push the agenda go for it. I don’t generally believe dirt sheets. It doesn’t affect me.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> If you wanna push the agenda go for it. I don’t generally believe dirt sheets. It doesn’t affect me.


I agree with you I don't trust dirtsheets either.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> And Rovert has reported on alot of things that turned out to be true like Tony Khan having buyer's remorse and he turned out to be right again. Tony Khan isn't signing talent to big gaurenteed money contracts anymore just like Rovert said.
> 
> But if you want to believe that everything is sunshine rosey then go ahead. But you'd be a dummy to believe someone like Rovert just made this up one he didn't. And again hes not a fan fan hes an insider just like Mike Johnson and Dave Meltzer LOL.



Haha wait when did come out about Tony Khan having buyers remorse? His company is already profitable in year 2 and he's having buyer remorse? Lol. So that was more fake news he spread and acting like it was real. Hmm last I heard he offered Edge 3 million dollars lol. He's about to sign bunch more talent next month when it's available. 


Again just give it up dude nobody believing this fake news crap. You haven't given one example of him being actually right about anything. Outside of his guess that he claimed from source that Marty would resign.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> I agree with you I don't trust dirtsheets either.


But you trust fanboy fake news from people on Twitter? How about you just admit that you are Rovert and trying to trick us into believing in this guy. Sorry nobody stupid and gonna believe made up crap from Twitter fanboys.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Haha wait when did come out about Tony Khan having buyers remorse? His company is already profitable in year 2 and he's having buyer remorse? Lol. So that was more fake news he spread and acting like it was real. Hmm last I heard he offered Edge 3 million dollars lol. He's about to sign bunch more talent next month when it's available.
> 
> 
> Again just give it up dude nobody believing this fake news crap. You haven't given one example of him being actually right about anything. Outside of his guess that he claimed from source that Marty would resign.


? It came out last year Rumor Roundup (Dec. 5, 2019): Lashley/Lana arrest, what Vince likes & doesn’t, AEW buyer’s remorse, Scurll, more!

See and it turned out to be true thsts why he isn't signing talent to big gaurenteed money contracts anymore. Profibility has nothing to do with buyer's remorse LOL. The article above proves it wasn't fake news it was actually true.

No only delusional people like you don't believe it. I gave you an article above proving that he was right.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ozell Gray said:


> Rovert is a insider so how is he not a credible source? Just because hes speaking negatively on AEW doesn't take away from his credibility.


and insider.... from Dublin?

my sources in South Africa says its all fine

edit> oh.... wait.... rejoiner. Fuck off to the ignore list


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> But you trust fanboy fake news from people on Twitter? How about you just admit that you are Rovert and trying to trick us into believing in this guy. Sorry nobody stupid and gonna believe made up crap from Twitter fanboys.


But he isn't a fanboy hes an insider just like Meltzer and you believe him so why aren't you believing Rovert? 

And Rovert isn't a dirtsheet hes a credible source. ? Im not Rovert. Why would Rovert even comment on wrestling forum in the first place? Except its not madeup crap. 

This is for you delusional AEW fanboys 
4:57-6:13


----------



## Ozell Gray

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and insider.... from Dublin?
> 
> my sources in South Africa says its all fine
> 
> edit> oh.... wait.... rejoiner. Fuck off to the ignore list


? Coming from an idiot that has to use curse words.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> ? It came out last year Rumor Roundup (Dec. 5, 2019): Lashley/Lana arrest, what Vince likes & doesn’t, AEW buyer’s remorse, Scurll, more!
> 
> See and it turned out to be true thsts why he isn't signing talent to big gaurenteed money contracts anymore. Profibility has nothing to do with buyer's remorse LOL. The article above proves it wasn't fake news it was actually true.
> 
> No only delusional people like you don't believe it. I gave you an article above proving that he was right.


Lol showing a rumor site with rovert as source is not proof. I just did a Google search on rovert and OMG he as awful rep lol. I also saw he comes on this forum under different user names. So nice to meet you Rovert. Sorry nobody believes your fake news. Have fun before you get banned again.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> But he isn't a fanboy hes an insider just like Meltzer and you believe him so why aren't you believing Rovert?
> 
> And Rovert isn't a dirtsheet hes a credible source. ? Im not Rovert. Why would Rovert even comment on wrestling forum in the first place? Except its not madeup crap.
> 
> This is for you delusional AEW fanboys
> 4:57-6:13


Go Google his name lol. I couldn't see a less credible source. With people even mentioning he came on this forum and many different forums under many user names. Nobody would be defending this source if you weren't him.


Nice try pal but whatever I'm just going to put you on ignore. So I can't see made up fake news crap. Until of course you get banned again.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Lol showing a rumor site with rovert as source is not proof. I just did a Google search on rovert and OMG he as awful rep lol. I also saw he comes on this forum under different user names. So nice to meet you Rovert. Sorry nobody believes your fake news. Have fun before you get banned again.


Except it is proof where else would you get the proof outside of an article and it being reported? 

Except Im not Rovert but its nice speaking to you Tony Khan. So go continue being a money mark and ask your dad for more money to fund your vanity project.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Go Google his name lol. I couldn't see a less credible source. With people even mentioning he came on this forum and many different forums under many user names. Nobody would be defending this source if you weren't him.
> 
> 
> Nice try pal but whatever I'm just going to put you on ignore. So I can't see made up fake news crap. Until of course you get banned again.


Except I didn't know anything about him commenting on forums. I was defending him as a source and a credible insider nothing else. And again Im not him Tony Khan no one would be defending this company like this if you weren't Tony Khan. 

But whatever Tony Khan Im done with you anyways so that way I don't have to deal your lies and you being a money mark.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Except it is proof where else would you get the proof outside of an article and it being reported?
> 
> Except Im not Rovert but its nice speaking to you Tony Khan. So go continue being a money mark and ask your dad for more money to fund your vanity project.


Maybe proof from credible site that actually has contacts with the wrestlers themselves lol. Not some guy on Twitter who has horrible rep. So much so that his stuff gets reported as rumors and not actual news lol.


YeS I'm Tony Khan I have time to sit on message board all day. With me running Soccer team, AEW, Analytics company and front office job with Jags. That same thing as calling you some guy who tweets or retweets 100 times a day. With many reports of him going to forums under different user names to get people to believe his news. Sorry buddy but everything you are doing right now. Is all stuff people say rovert has done in the past including on this forum.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Except I didn't know anything about him commenting on forums. I was defending him as a source and a credible insider nothing else. And again Im not him Tony Khan no one would be defending this company like this if you weren't Tony Khan.
> 
> But whatever Tony Khan Im done with you anyways so that way I don't have to deal your lies and you being a money mark.



YeS calling a guy on Twitter news fake and crap makes me Tony Khan. That would make a lot of people on the internet Tony Khan then. Since Rovert got a terrible rep lol. Not to mention is anyone on here buying your story. Nope lol. I guess we are ALL Tony Khan.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Maybe proof from credible site that actually has contacts with the wrestlers themselves lol. Not some guy on Twitter who has horrible rep. So much so that his stuff gets reported as rumors and not actual news lol.
> 
> 
> YeS I'm Tony Khan I have time to sit on message board all day. With me running Soccer team, AEW, Analytics company and front office job with Jags. That same thing as calling you some guy who tweets or retweets 100 times a day. With many reports of him going to forums under different user names to get people to believe his news. Sorry buddy but everything you are doing right now. Is all stuff people say rovert has done in the past including on this forum.


Yeah and Im Rovert on a wrestling forum instead of being on twitter breaking certain news. Sorry buddy but you sound exactly like Tony Khan everything you've done by defending this company is all things Tony has done in interviews.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah and Im Rovert on a wrestling forum instead of being on twitter breaking certain news. Sorry buddy but you sound exactly like Tony Khan everything you've done by defending this company is all things Tony has done in interviews.


Breaking news hahahahaha. Well since I'm Tony Khan. I will tell you that I don't have buyer remorse. So that kills your fake breaking news.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> YeS calling a guy on Twitter news fake and crap makes me Tony Khan. That would make a lot of people on the internet Tony Khan then. Since Rovert got a terrible rep lol. Not to mention is anyone on here buying your story. Nope lol. I guess we are ALL Tony Khan.


we’re ALL Tony Khan!


----------



## Aedubya

Im Tony Khan


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Breaking news hahahahaha. Well since I'm Tony Khan. I will tell you that I don't have buyer remorse. So that kills your fake breaking news.


? Defending the company but yet claims not to be Tony Khan. 

Hows about about if I was Rovert I wouldn't be on here? So that kills your dumb comment about me being Rovert when I only posted his tweets because I saw them on twitter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

We KHAN do it! Keep the company together boys!

all those EVPs fighting in the halls are making it haaaaaarddddd


----------



## Ozell Gray

LifeInCattleClass said:


> We KHAN do it! Keep the company together boys!
> 
> all those EVPs fighting in the halls are making it haaaaaarddddd


4:57-6:13


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> ? Defending the company but yet claims not to be Tony Khan.
> 
> Hows about about if I was Rovert I wouldn't be on here? So that kills your dumb comment about me being Rovert when I only posted his tweets because I saw them on twitter.


Yes people on AEW forum will defend company when someone posts fake news lol. Heck maybe the news is true. All I know is the source is crap and no reason or evidence to believe it. 


So you go to AEW forum and post tweets from Rovert. Then when people laugh it off as nonsense. You defend the guy like he's your lover or something.


That's little more then just posting a tweet of news. When you go out of your way to defend the guy. I'm sorry you pretty much gave it away.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> 4:57-6:13


Again you went to far trying to convince the source is legit. Now everyone is making joke of your comments. Just go back to Twitter and make up some more breaking news please.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Yes people on AEW forum will defend company when someone posts fake news lol. Heck maybe the news is true. All I know is the source is crap and no reason or evidence to believe it.
> 
> 
> So you go to AEW forum and post tweets from Rovert. Then when people laugh it off as nonsense. You defend the guy like he's your lover or something.
> 
> 
> That's little more then just posting a tweet of news. When you go out of your way to defend the guy. I'm sorry you pretty much gave it away.


Yeah I just looked up the guys history he does seem to make things up majority of the time. So this might be one of those times. 

Again and when you went out of your way to defend the company you gave it away that you're Tony Khan.

I obviously didn't know the full story on Rovert I saw his tweets and posted them. And I also saw that he got some other stuff right as well but I didn't know most things are false that he reports.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Again you went to far trying to convince the source is legit. Now everyone is making joke of your comments. Just go back to Twitter and make up some more breaking news please.


Excelt Im not Rovert dummy I didn't know his full history when I posted the tweets. If I knew his full history I wouldn't have been so quick to post them.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Excelt Im not Rovert dummy I didn't know his full history when I posted the tweets. If I knew his full history I wouldn't have been so quick to post them.


Ok that's all I was trying to tell you. Yet you were fighing me on it. So what you expect me to think that you were him. No reason for calling me names when you made the mistake.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah I just looked up the guys history he does seem to make things up majority of the time. So this might be one of those times.
> 
> Again and when you went out of your way to defend the company you gave it away that you're Tony Khan.
> 
> I obviously didn't know the full story on Rovert I saw his tweets and posted them. And I also saw that he got some other stuff right as well but I didn't know most things are false that he reports.


Since I'm Tony Khan. Please tell me what you love about my company?


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Again you went to far trying to convince the source is legit. Now everyone is making joke of your comments. Just go back to Twitter and make up some more breaking news please.





imthegame19 said:


> Again you went to far trying to convince the source is legit. Now everyone is making joke of your comments. Just go back to Twitter and make up some more breaking news please.





imthegame19 said:


> Ok that's all I was trying to tell you. Yet you were fighing me on it. So what you expect me to think that you were him. No reason for calling me names when you made the mistake.


Uts cool man.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Ok that's all I was trying to tell you. Yet you were fighing me on it. So what you expect me to think that you were him. No reason for calling me names when you made the mistake.


Its cool man.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Since I'm Tony Khan. Please tell me what you love about my company?


I don't like anything about wrestling period which is why I stopped watching almost 3 years ago and haven't watched since. 

I was on twitter and happen to stumble upon this and posted it. So theres nothing I like about this company or any other company.


----------



## bdon

I...am Tony Khan.


----------



## bdon

I can’t believe y’all wasted so much time on this shit. Hah.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> I don't like anything about wrestling period which is why I stopped watching almost 3 years ago and haven't watched since.
> 
> I was on twitter and happen to stumble upon this and posted it. So theres nothing I like about this company or any other company.


Yet you only joined a month ago.

this guy man LOL. Talked about how WWE talent being upset is false even with facts presented by talent like Moxley and the like.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t know who Rovert is, but the storylines on AEW coincidentally coincide with these backstage goings on?
> 
> guys getting played. the blur between realism and kayfabe was a key attitude era staple. And that’s what TK has been studying. All of the EVPs, people in AEW etc have said TK is the boss and makes the final decision.To have a power struggle over a position where there’s no power. Yeah no chance.


I don’t know anything about this Rovert guy, but this is such a weird response. The point of a story is to make money. Where is the benefit in working people in the way you suggested?

Meltzer’s reporting on AEW is biased as fuck too. Anyone can see that. He’s dropped some weird hints about Omega whining he doesn’t have much say. He got his domestic violence match though.

At some point, it is inevitable that there is going to be a major difference of opinion if it hasn’t occurred yet. It is also likely going to ruffle some feathers big time, considering how sensitive at least three quarters of the EVP contingent is.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I........am......To....ny.....


----------



## Zbagint

How old are you, Ozell? Genuinely curious.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Yet you only joined a month ago.
> 
> this guy man LOL. Talked about how WWE talent being upset is false even with facts presented by talent like Moxley and the like.


Joining a month ago is irrelevant. 
No I was making a point that with y'all something negative reported about WWE is believed here but ehen its AEW its oh its false theres no truth to it. 

Oh and if you don't believe me you ask my family and they'll even tell that I stopped watching almost 3 years ago and HAVEN'T WATCHED SINCE.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Zbagint said:


> How old are you, Ozell? Genuinely curious.


23 years old.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Zbagint said:


> How old are you, Ozell? Genuinely curious.


How old are you?


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> Joining a month ago is irrelevant.
> No I was making a point that with y'all something negative reported about WWE is believed here but ehen its AEW its oh its false theres no truth to it.
> 
> Oh and if you don't believe me you ask my family and they'll even tell that I stopped watching almost 3 years ago and HAVEN'T WATCHED SINCE.


Yeah guys! ASK HIS FAMILY!!!


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> Yeah guys! ASK HIS FAMILY!!!


Well a if you don't believe me then thats on you.


----------



## bdon

No older than 14. Book it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Joining a month ago is irrelevant.
> No I was making a point that with y'all something negative reported about WWE is believed here but ehen its AEW its oh its false theres no truth to it.
> 
> Oh and if you don't believe me you ask my family and they'll even tell that I stopped watching almost 3 years ago and HAVEN'T WATCHED SINCE.


Then why join WF.
Just another rejoiner.

dude. Is that you?


----------



## bdon

Aaaaand ignore.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Jesus wtf happened to this thread.


----------



## imthegame19

Meltzer said that MJF and Cody lashes segment did 972,000 viewers. He said Moxley/Ortiz did big number too but didn't say the actual number.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Meltzer said that MJF and Cody lashes segment did 972,000 viewers. He said Moxley/Ortiz did big number too but didn't say the actual number.


Isn’t it interesting how the serious wrestlers are the ones that gain viewers? Hmm. It’s almost like there’s a lesson in that...


----------



## The Wood

People are going to be cranky at me bringing this up, but I'm going to make a point with it: 

The XFL (Vince McMahon's AEW in many ways) just got 3.3 million on ABC. I don't think that includes ESPN or FOX. It peaked at 4.0 and did significantly better in the markets more invested in the teams or in football in general right now (Seattle, Washington D.C. and Kansas City). Yes, that is the first week, but can we please stop acting like 950k viewers for live content is absolutely amazing? Or that we need to just throw a blanket over things and say "Well no one watches TV anymore." Yes, media consumption has changed, but when you have a live product people are interested in, they tune in. We can compare AEW to things that are out there right now.

It's _not_ doing gangbusters compared to football. It's not even coming close to scratching Raw and SmackDown. It's barely beating NXT (hour six and seven of WWE content). This might not sound like a revolutionary point, but compare AEW to the content it is in the same market as and it says something about its appeal. New content that gets added does much better than it. This isn't the "hit" that people make it out to be, and I think there is objective evidence to support that. You don't need to account for what Spike TV was like eight years ago or whatever. We can see what people are interested in _now_.


----------



## bdon

Shocked that more people want to watch football, which is not a dying form of entertainment, than AEW. Shocked I tell you. ?


----------



## bdon

Likewise: XFL did 14 million viewers the last time they premiered. The NFL just done 16.5 million average weekly viewers, and I distinctly remember you telling everyone that a new show typically does great. 

So, Vince’s AEW did well its first week, but it did piss poor compared to the established monster.

WHODATHUNKIT!?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> People are going to be cranky at me bringing this up, but I'm going to make a point with it:
> 
> The XFL (Vince McMahon's AEW in many ways) just got 3.3 million on ABC. I don't think that includes ESPN or FOX. It peaked at 4.0 and did significantly better in the markets more invested in the teams or in football in general right now (Seattle, Washington D.C. and Kansas City). Yes, that is the first week, but can we please stop acting like 950k viewers for live content is absolutely amazing? Or that we need to just throw a blanket over things and say "Well no one watches TV anymore." Yes, media consumption has changed, but when you have a live product people are interested in, they tune in. We can compare AEW to things that are out there right now.
> 
> It's _not_ doing gangbusters compared to football. It's not even coming close to scratching Raw and SmackDown. It's barely beating NXT (hour six and seven of WWE content). This might not sound like a revolutionary point, but compare AEW to the content it is in the same market as and it says something about its appeal. New content that gets added does much better than it. This isn't the "hit" that people make it out to be, and I think there is objective evidence to support that. You don't need to account for what Spike TV was like eight years ago or whatever. We can see what people are interested in _now_.


Comparing football to wrestling & network TV to cable - so stupid


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Comparing football to wrestling & network TV to cable - so stupid


But using his AEW comparison, the new startup (XFL) registered only 20% of the rating that the established industry giant (NFL) AVERAGED for the season. AEW is blasted for doing a little less than HALF of Raw’s rating.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> But using his AEW comparison, the new startup (XFL) registered only 20% of the rating that the established industry giant (NFL) AVERAGED for the season. AEW is blasted for doing a little less than HALF of Raw’s rating.


If the XFL filled their teams with ex NFL teams they'd do much better. Imagine XFL having the Steelers and the 49ers as their Jericho and Moxley. Your comparison sucks


----------



## bdon

Shouldn’t you be in bed getting ready for school, kid?


----------



## bdon

Alliance of American Football did a 2.9 rating in Week 1 last year, too. It folded 52 days later.

This is fun. Shall we continue?


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Shouldn’t you be in bed getting ready for school, kid?


What happened to the rational "adult conversationalist" bdon we all grew to dislike? Was that all a front for not being able to dispute what was being argued? You're really showing your hand lately, mate. Just like the other trolls did.


----------



## bdon

2.9 rating

Dead 52 days later, “mate”.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> 2.9 rating
> 
> Dead 52 days later, “mate”.


The fact that you can't even back your opinions enough to quote anyone in the hope that they miss it says enough about yourself and your opinions. Your comparison still sucks. AEW is only successful because of the ex-WWE stars. If XFL had 2 or 3 ex NFL teams then the comparison would be apt. Unfortunately, like usual, you're just cherry picking. They're just completely different situations


----------



## The Masked Avenger

I hope the XFL succeeds. I baffles me how incredibly popular football is in America but we have no minor league for it.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> The fact that you can't even back your opinions enough to quote anyone in the hope that they miss it says enough about yourself and your opinions. Your comparison still sucks. AEW is only successful because of the ex-WWE stars. If XFL had 2 or 3 ex NFL teams then the comparison would be apt. Unfortunately, like usual, you're just cherry picking. They're just completely different situations


AEW is successful because it’s using those former WWE stars better than they were ever used in WWE. And wrestlers are wrestlers. Not football teams. They are quantities of their own. Not just brands. Jericho was in other big promotions before WWE and is as close to a creative genius as a wrestler can be.


----------



## AEWMoxley

XFL is in trouble with that opening week rating. It needed a way higher number to have any sort of chance of making it past 1 season, since much like the AAF, and much like the first iteration of the XFL, hungry football fans were just tuning in out of curiosity after the end of the NFL season. The XFL drew 14 million viewers for its debut back in 2001. *14 million viewers. *Then their audience decreased by half the following week, by 33% the following week, by 16%, etc., and it eventually bottomed out at 1.5 million. From 14 million to 1.5 million in just a matter of weeks. The AAF drew a similar number to the current iteration of the XFL, and eventually folded after 1 season.

It's been abundantly clear that people have no long term interest in football outside of college and the NFL.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

AEWMoxley said:


> XFL is in trouble with that opening week rating. It needed a way higher number to have any sort of chance of making it past 1 season, since much like the AAF, and much like the first iteration of the XFL, hungry football fans were just tuning in out of curiosity after the end of the NFL season. The XFL drew 14 million viewers for its debut back in 2001. *14 million viewers. *Then their audience decreased by half the following week, by 33% the following week, by 16%, etc., and it eventually bottomed out at 1.5 million. From 14 million to 1.5 million in just a matter of weeks. The AAF drew a similar number to the current iteration of the XFL, and eventually folded after 1 season.
> 
> It's been abundantly clear that people have no long term interest in football outside of college and the NFL.


We have already established that we cannot compare rating trends from nearly twenty years ago. Especially with the initial launch of the XFL occurred during prime time and not on a Saturday afternoon. Another thing to look at for the bigger picture currently is the positive reviews coming in today from sports network experts. Multiple praises have been given to the league and just how much better the football is this time around compared to the last time. Originally, Vince was threatening to take down the NFL and his shows were being treated as more of a spectacle than a sporting event. 

Vince has some solid football minds overseeing the building of the brand and the current consensus after week one is that they are on the right track. It is that type of word of mouth from the TV sports personalities that can help increase the weekly fanbase, compared to how the media treated games their first go around. Vince has money set aside to fund the league for three years, it will be interesting to see how this inaugural season unfolds.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Bloody Warpath said:


> We have already established that we cannot compare rating trends from nearly twenty years ago. Especially with the initial launch of the XFL occurred during prime time and not on a Saturday afternoon. Another thing to look at for the bigger picture currently is the positive reviews coming in today from sports network experts. Multiple praises have been given to the league and just how much better the football is this time around compared to the last time. Originally, Vince was threatening to take down the NFL and his shows were being treated as more of a spectacle than a sporting event.
> 
> Vince has some solid football minds overseeing the building of the brand and the current consensus after week one is that they are on the right track. It is that type of word of mouth from the TV sports personalities that can help increase the weekly fanbase, compared to how the media treated games their first go around. Vince has money set aside to fund the league for three years, it will be interesting to see how this inaugural season unfolds.


to add to this, XFL 2020 has already outsold AAF in terms of ticket revenue. Very impressive.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> We have already established that we cannot compare rating trends from nearly twenty years ago. Especially with the initial launch of the XFL occurred during prime time and not on a Saturday afternoon. Another thing to look at for the bigger picture currently is the positive reviews coming in today from sports network experts. Multiple praises have been given to the league and just how much better the football is this time around compared to the last time. Originally, Vince was threatening to take down the NFL and his shows were being treated as more of a spectacle than a sporting event.
> 
> Vince has some solid football minds overseeing the building of the brand and the current consensus after week one is that they are on the right track. It is that type of word of mouth from the TV sports personalities that can help increase the weekly fanbase, compared to how the media treated games their first go around. Vince has money set aside to fund the league for three years, it will be interesting to see how this inaugural season unfolds.


You clearly weren't paying attention to the AAF last year, because there were glowing reviews back then, too. From the media, to places like /r/NFL - everyone was seemingly falling in love with this new league. Then, over the course of the next few weeks, after NFL fans got their football fix and the novelty had worn off and people realized that this, in fact, a minor league, interest started to decline. The exact same thing will happen here. The NFL is too huge to compete with, and football fans, contrary to what you may think, don't care to watch football all year round.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

The downfall of the AAF was when ownership changed during the season. Tom Dundon was only willing to run the league as an NFL feeder, and at that time the NFL was not going to partner with them for that. He was unwilling to run at a loss while not being partnered with the NFL. Vince and Oliver Luck are going at this with a completely different mindset, they are running as strictly their own entity that could become a feeder in the future. 

Also look at the changes the XFL have already made. Changes to pints and kickoffs as well as extra points have all received positive reviews. The AAF did not actually do much changing or innovating. Once the announcement was made they would close after the season the remaining games were dead in the water.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> The downfall of the AAF was when ownership changed during the season. Tom Dundon was only willing to run the league as an NFL feeder, and at that time the NFL was not going to partner with them for that. He was unwilling to run at a loss while not being partnered with the NFL. Vince and Oliver Luck are going at this with a completely different mindset, they are running as strictly their own entity that could become a feeder in the future.
> 
> Also look at the changes the XFL have already made. Changes to pints and kickoffs as well as extra points have all received positive reviews. The AAF did not actually do much changing or innovating. Once the announcement was made they would close after the season the remaining games were dead in the water.


People tune in to see the best players in the world, coached by the best minds in the sport, not because of punt and kickoff rules. This isn't like wrestling. It's not a story driven event that's scripted for maximum entertainment. This is a legitimate competition, in which people want to see the best compete. Also unlike wrestling, football has one dominant league that generates obscene levels of viewership and revenue. In wrestling, the top dog is a company that has bled an absurd amount of viewers over the last few years. There's room for an alternative brand to exist in wrestling, even without the decades worth of built-in loyalty and viewership. In football, not so much - as we've seen many spring leagues fail over the years. Fans need an offseason from football. They simply do not want to watch it all year round.

How much money do you think Vince is willing to lose on this venture?


----------



## Bloody Warpath

AEWMoxley said:


> People tune in to see the best players in the world, coached by the best minds in the sport, not because of punt and kickoff rules. This isn't like wrestling. It's not a story driven event that's scripted for maximum entertainment. This is a legitimate competition, in which people want to see the best compete. Also unlike wrestling, football has one dominant league that generates obscene levels of viewership and revenue. In wrestling, the top dog is a company that has bled an absurd amount of viewers over the last few years. There's room for an alternative brand to exist in wrestling, even without the decades worth of built-in loyalty and viewership. In football, not so much - as we've seen many spring leagues fail over the years. Fans need an offseason from football. They simply do not want to watch it all year round.
> 
> How much money do you think Vince is willing to lose on this venture?


Vince is completely aware that the league will be running at a loss for a few years, which is why he already has the money set aside to fund the league for a few years. It is easy to see the differences after the first week of both XFL campaigns. Even the AAF suffered on the field the same as the first XFL due to not having enough time for teams to practice and build chemistry before the season started. Now we wait till next weekend to see how the viewership sways.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Bloody Warpath said:


> Vince is completely aware that the league will be running at a loss for a few years, which is why he already has the money set aside to fund the league for a few years. It is easy to see the differences after the first week of both XFL campaigns. Even the AAF suffered on the field the same as the first XFL due to not having enough time for teams to practice and build chemistry before the season started. Now we wait till next weekend to see how the viewership sways.


rt

competition is always good. 

i dont understand why people are so overly negative as soon as a competitor hits the scene. let it go and give it a chance smh


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> Vince is completely aware that the league will be running at a loss for a few years, which is why he already has the money set aside to fund the league for a few years. It is easy to see the differences after the first week of both XFL campaigns. Even the AAF suffered on the field the same as the first XFL due to not having enough time for teams to practice and build chemistry before the season started. Now we wait till next weekend to see how the viewership sways.


AAF had solid viewership for the first few weeks, not just its debut, but again, the reason that literally every single other spring league has failed is because they had low tier talent and because football fans need a break from football after the Super Bowl. They will tune in for a couple of weeks at the beginning, but the ratings will drop, as they also have. XFL will not offer any substantial difference in comparison to all of the other spring leagues that have failed.

It is what it is.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> rt
> 
> competition is always good.
> 
> i dont understand why people are so overly negative as soon as a competitor hits the scene. let it go and give it a chance smh


It's not being overly negative - it's being realistic. What part about _*every* single spring league failing_ is so difficult to comprehend? Again, this isn't the wrestling industry where other alternatives can survive. Competitors to the NFL go out of business very quickly. That's just the way it is.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I was kinda shocked that they didn't throw huge money at a Dez Bryant or a Tom Brady to really give the league a boost. It showed in the ratings.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was kinda shocked that they didn't throw huge money at a Dez Bryant or a Tom Brady to really give the league a boost. It showed in the ratings.


lol Tom Brady would never even consider the XFL. Not only would they be unable to afford him, but he doesn't want to tarnish his legacy by being associated with Vince McMahon and that league.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> lol Tom Brady would never even consider the XFL. Not only would they be unable to afford him, but he doesn't want to tarnish his legacy by being associated with Vince McMahon.


Brady would turnn down $100 million a year?


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> Brady would turnn down $100 million a year?


$100 million a year? Are you aware of the kind of money XFL players are getting? They're getting paid peanuts. They can't afford to pay him anywhere near that kind of money.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

No sane person would WANT the XFL to fail

competition is always good


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> It's not being overly negative - it's being realistic. What part about _*every* single spring league failing_ is so difficult to comprehend? Again, this isn't the wrestling industry where other alternatives can survive. Competitors to the NFL go out of business very quickly. That's just the way it is.


okay but who are you trying to convince? VKM is giving it a go as he doesn't give a shit about wrestling anymore. more power to him.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> okay but who are you trying to convince? VKM is giving it a go as he doesn't give a shit about wrestling anymore. more power to him.


I'm not trying to convince anyone. Just laying out the facts.

If Vince wants to lose tens of millions of dollars while neglecting his wrestling business, that's on him.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> $100 million a year? Are you aware of the kind of money XFL players are getting? They're getting paid peanuts. They can't afford to pay him anywhere near that kind of money.


Yes, I am a giant football fan so im well prepped. $55k is the average but Tom Brady is not average. It is the same theory as AEW signing Jericho.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes, I am a giant football fan so im well prepped. $55k is the average but Tom Brady is not average. It is the same theory as AEW signing Jericho.


Wrestling contracts are much easier to deal with, because wrestlers can't demand massive contracts. Trust me - XFL could not afford to pay anywhere near that amount. Russel Wilson, who is the highest paid player in the NFL, makes $35 mil/year.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm not trying to convince anyone. Just laying out the facts.
> 
> If Vince wants to lose tens of millions of dollars while neglecting his wrestling business, that's on him.


yeh absolutely. But a fact is a fact and not an opinion. So in your _opinion_, there's no space for an alternative. In your _opinion_, fans do not want to have football all year.

i'm not saying XFL will overtake NFL at all. But there may be a gap that VKM is willing to fill in. Nothing wrong at all with that.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> yeh absolutely. But a fact is a fact and not an opinion. So in your _opinion_, there's no space for an alternative. In your _opinion_, fans do not want to have football all year.


Every single spring league, from the 70s, to the 80s, to the early 2000s, to just last year, has failed. Fans don't want spring football, especially a league that is full of guys who could not crack the practice squad of an NFL team. This is a fact, and has been proven to be true for decades.



> i'm not saying XFL will overtake NFL at all. But there may be a gap that VKM is willing to fill in. Nothing wrong at all with that.


But there isn't a gap. Football fans have already shown, for decades, that they do not care for spring football leagues featuring guys who cannot even crack the practice squads of NFL teams.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> Every single spring league, from the 70s, to the 80s, to the early 2000s, to just last year, has failed. Fans don't want spring football, especially a league that is full of guys who could not crack the practice squad of an NFL team. This is a fact, and has been proven to be true for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> But there isn't a gap. Football fans have already shown, for decades, that they do not care for spring football leagues featuring guys who cannot even crack the practice squads of NFL teams.


in that case, you'd think all these guys who want to try would not even bother.

no, it means that any hired analysts, focus groups etc indicate that there is a gap. it's all good, your opinion is fact. whatever. it doesn't really affect me since i dont watch american football anyway


----------



## bdon

Football doesn’t work post-Super Bowl, because sports fans ramp up their NBA time. Sunday is a traditional hoops day dating back NBA on NBC. As the summer rolls around, basketball gives way to baseball, which is in the heart of its season during this time.

I won’t say it won’t last, but it’s going to constantly be looking over its shoulder.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Football doesn’t work post-Super Bowl, because sports fans ramp up their NBA time. Sunday is a traditional hoops day dating back NBA on NBC. As the summer rolls around, basketball gives way to baseball, which is in the heart of its season during this time.
> 
> I won’t say it won’t last, but it’s going to constantly be looking over its shoulder.


March Madness is going to demolish anything in its path.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> Football doesn’t work post-Super Bowl, because sports fans ramp up their NBA time. Sunday is a traditional hoops day dating back NBA on NBC. As the summer rolls around, basketball gives way to baseball, which is in the heart of its season during this time.
> 
> I won’t say it won’t last, but it’s going to constantly be looking over its shoulder.


Yes sir. Headed to the Mavs game tonight. Its NBA time!!!


----------



## RiverFenix

XFL just needs 10% of NFL audience to have staying power. Also while spring football has failed in the past, this time they're tying themselves HARD to sports betting in hopes of that base carrying them through the first 3-4 years before they start getting players who go UDFA and jump right to the league.


----------



## Aedubya

Is this an XFL thread now?

Thread title needs updating


----------



## Pippen94

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> XFL just needs 10% of NFL audience to have staying power. Also while spring football has failed in the past, this time they're tying themselves HARD to sports betting in hopes of that base carrying them through the first 3-4 years before they start getting players who go UDFA and jump right to the league.


It will fail - we all know it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Should’ve invested in Rugby anyways - objectively a better game than Football in every way possible

(hehehe.... that should put the cat amongst the pigeons


----------



## fabi1982

Funny how some of you act the same way as the so called WWE shills towards AEW. And you tell these people that they should shut the fuck up all the time, but it makes sense to tell something will fail after one week when its not associated with AEW


----------



## bdon

For me, it isn’t about the XFL itself. It’s just a fact that American sports culture has a biological clock where each major sport works around each other.

There may be some diehard football guys who will watch it, but it is going to be a struggle for them, IMO.


----------



## AEWMoxley

fabi1982 said:


> Funny how some of you act the same way as the so called WWE shills towards AEW. And you tell these people that they should shut the fuck up all the time, but it makes sense to tell something will fail after one week when its not associated with AEW


Numerous wrestling companies have existed for prolonged periods over the decades, and one even overtook WWE in popularity for a while. Competitors to the NFL tend to die very quickly.

Its not the same thing at all. The NFL is legitimate a powerhouse in football, whereas the WWE generates very weak numbers for being the top dog within its own industry. One can be competed with, the other cannot.


----------



## rbl85

The NFL is still growing while the WWE is declining.


----------



## Jazminator

It's fine to doubt the XFL's long-term viability - obviously, history is not on its side - but I admire Vince McMahon for giving it another attempt. Our country wouldn't be nearly as great as it is without people who are risk takers.

I think the XFL has a similar goal to AEW: serve as an alternative for fans who love their sport. Nothing wrong with that. I'm rooting for the league to succeed.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

fabi1982 said:


> Funny how some of you act the same way as the so called WWE shills towards AEW. And you tell these people that they should shut the fuck up all the time, but it makes sense to tell something will fail after one week when its not associated with AEW


Let me try to count all the ways this is total bullshit. Fuck it, I can’t be bothered.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Shocked that more people want to watch football, which is not a dying form of entertainment, than AEW. Shocked I tell you. ?


Lol, so wrestling sucking is the reason it’s not as popular? Thanks for making my point. 



bdon said:


> Likewise: XFL did 14 million viewers the last time they premiered. The NFL just done 16.5 million average weekly viewers, and I distinctly remember you telling everyone that a new show typically does great.
> 
> So, Vince’s AEW did well its first week, but it did piss poor compared to the established monster.
> 
> WHODATHUNKIT!?


I don’t care about what they did. I care about what is possible now. AEW are not doing anywhere need as good as they could be.



bdon said:


> But using his AEW comparison, the new startup (XFL) registered only 20% of the rating that the established industry giant (NFL) AVERAGED for the season. AEW is blasted for doing a little less than HALF of Raw’s rating.


You’re dealing with percentages of a much larger slice. The sheer quantity of people with access to television that just don’t give a shit about wrestling is staggering. It’s not about the millions that WWE aren’t getting (which is their fault), it’s about the millions AEW isn’t getting.

Because you’re defensive, you’ve taken my point to be “Look at how great the XFL is” instead of “even the XFL.” If people gave even ghe



bdon said:


> Shouldn’t you be in bed getting ready for school, kid?


When the fuck did you turn into that guy? 



bdon said:


> Alliance of American Football did a 2.9 rating in Week 1 last year, too. It folded 52 days later.
> 
> This is fun. Shall we continue?


But surely AEW is bulletproof? 



DOTL said:


> AEW is successful because it’s using those former WWE stars better than they were ever used in WWE. And wrestlers are wrestlers. Not football teams. They are quantities of their own. Not just brands. Jericho was in other big promotions before WWE and is as close to a creative genius as a wrestler can be.


Jericho is not being better used now than he was in 2000, 2001 or 2008. Moxley is not being better used than he was in The Shield. I’ve seen this feud before too. It’s following a very similar template.



AEWMoxley said:


> XFL is in trouble with that opening week rating. It needed a way higher number to have any sort of chance of making it past 1 season, since much like the AAF, and much like the first iteration of the XFL, hungry football fans were just tuning in out of curiosity after the end of the NFL season. The XFL drew 14 million viewers for its debut back in 2001. *14 million viewers. *Then their audience decreased by half the following week, by 33% the following week, by 16%, etc., and it eventually bottomed out at 1.5 million. From 14 million to 1.5 million in just a matter of weeks. The AAF drew a similar number to the current iteration of the XFL, and eventually folded after 1 season.
> 
> It's been abundantly clear that people have no long term interest in football outside of college and the NFL.


We’ll have to see what the trend is this time. It’s more about TV rights for this incarnation. If they’re doing well enough to get money from ABC and FOX, tjey



fabi1982 said:


> Funny how some of you act the same way as the so called WWE shills towards AEW. And you tell these people that they should shut the fuck up all the time, but it makes sense to tell something will fail after one week when its not associated with AEW


Yep. It’s pretty telling.


----------



## bdon

I have always been that guy. I refuse to talk to children, @The Wood. 

Wrestling has a lot of self-inflicted ill will to change perceptionally. I’ve never disagree about these things. You think AEW losing those viewers means death. You thought they should just maintain and immediately grow.

You can spin it however you want. XFL trying to upset the industry leader is the same as AEW and WWE. Except football is and has always been a far more mainstream form of entertainment.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Should’ve invested in Rugby anyways - objectively a better game than Football in every way possible
> 
> (hehehe.... that should put the cat amongst the pigeons


Kick and clap Rugby Union is dying. The only countries that care about it are NZ and South Africa. Rugby League is where the money is at. If only the people who run the sport had any idea on how to promote it


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I have always been that guy. I lack the testicular fortitude to carry out a conversation with someone whose points I can't debate, @The Wood.


Fixed it for you


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> Kick and clap Rugby Union is dying. The only countries that care about it are NZ and South Africa. Rugby League is where the money is at. If only the people who run the sport had any idea on how to promote it


you must’ve missed the massive Rugby World Cup in Japan that was just on.

mate, just because Aussie is not that great at their ‘4th most popular sport’ - doesn’t mean the rest of us have to go along with it (Until they win of course, then its the best thing since sliced bread)

Rugby Union is in the top 3 fastest growing team sports in the world.... 

League is and has always been, bush league ?‍♂


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you must’ve missed the massive Rugby World Cup in Japan that was just on.
> 
> mate, just because Aussie is not that great at their ‘4th most popular sport’ - doesn’t mean the rest of us have to go along with it (Until they win of course, then its the best thing since sliced bread)
> 
> Rugby Union is in the top 3 fastest growing team sports in the world....
> 
> League is and has always been, bush league ?‍♂


Fairly sure Japan stopped caring about it the moment it was over. Hence why the Sunwolves are done. They basically robbed Kick and Clap fans of their money to make their tourism numbers higher and to help local businesses. Even the soccer world cup is huge and soccer is terrible. Rugby League is a far more skillful sport, as you can tell by reserve grade NRL players representing their countries the moment they sign with Rugby. It's also far more entertaining to watch. League is starting to get bigger in America as well. 

Also rugby isn't even in the top 5 fastest growing sports in the world. Your sport only matters every 4 years, and the superiority complex Rugby fans have shouldn't exist.


----------



## MrThortan

AEW and NXT are going against the premier of Survivor Winners at war this Wednesday. Last year's premier pulled in 6.5 million viewers, which was their lowest. This is an all star season of winners though, so I am expecting a ratings increase. I don't know how much that will affect AEW and NXT, but it is still competition.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Wow, I didn't even realize Survivor was still on. I honestly can't see too much crossover between that and wrestling. NBA yes, Survivor I don't think so.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I have always been that guy. I refuse to talk to children, @The Wood.
> 
> Wrestling has a lot of self-inflicted ill will to change perceptionally. I’ve never disagree about these things. You think AEW losing those viewers means death. You thought they should just maintain and immediately grow.
> 
> You can spin it however you want. XFL trying to upset the industry leader is the same as AEW and WWE. Except football is and has always been a far more mainstream form of entertainment.


Cult03 is one of the more intelligent and articulate posters in this forum...

Yeah, wrestling is in the gutter. That’s why people are hungry for an alternative (more hungry than one for football), and it’s not an excuse to perpetuate why it’s in the gutter or to justify losing 500k fans or have a PPV retention rate of 29% or whatever it was between Double or Nothing and All Out.

There are millions of people who would watch good wrestling if the “good wrestling” wasn’t so shit.

And no, the XFL and AEW are not directly synonymous. For example, one is worked, whereas one has to shoot take players that are not in the NFL. AEW has kayfabed themselves into this position.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I am spartacus


----------



## French Connection

So next week, AEW will be in Atlanta at the State Farm Arena which has 21,000 seats!
I don't know why they hired a such huge venue. 
Can anyone have a look on ticket sales?


----------



## The Principal

French Connection said:


> So next week, AEW will be in Atlanta at the State Farm Arena which has 21,000 seats!
> I don't know why they hired a such huge venue.
> Can anyone have a look on ticket sales?


With the stage, ramp, and production areas the arena will probably be setup for around 12,000 seats. It looks like they have sold a lot on Ticketmaster, but there are still plenty of seats available. It should be a good house for a Wednesday night, non-PPV live show. Looks like an interesting card with the Cody/Wardlow cage match, tag team battle royal, and Moxley/Cobb match already.


----------



## bdon

Wouldn’t be surprised if this latest episode cracks the one million mark. It was that good.


----------



## taker1986

bdon said:


> Wouldn’t be surprised if this latest episode cracks the one million mark. It was that good.


It wouldn't surprise me either. If this week doesn't then next weeks stacked card surely will.


----------



## Pippen94

Big house last night I think with camera side looking full - anybody got attendance number from Austin?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

that was 95% full last night I would say?

what’s that 6k to 7k maybe?

or was it a smaller arena? Looked great!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Pippen94 said:


> Big house last night I think with camera side looking full - anybody got attendance number from Austin?


I was there. No section was completely empty. Meltzer said it was set up for 6500 so I’m guessing 5500-6000.

This is the hard cam side. The rest was pretty full. Some sections had a few rows empty on the camera side.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was there. No section was completely empty. Meltzer said it was set up for 6500 so I’m guessing 5500-6000.
> 
> This is the hard cam side. The rest was pretty full. Some sections had a few rows empty on the camera side.


man, you must be stoked - that was an awesome show


----------



## rbl85

Usually when a show is really good its the week after that you see a bump in the rating.


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> You think the big 4 would garner $180 million a year in revenue? That is 3 million buys at $60/buy and that doesnt even count the providers cut. Seems steep to me to expect 750k buys for all 4, even if Mania gets a million, that is still 665k+ buys for events that never got close to those numbers for years when people were trained to pay for them, which they aren't now.
> 
> I don't see it.


It depends on what type of deal they get and what the network buying the rights to those PPVs are looking to do. ESPN pays the UFC upfront for the right to be the exclusive UFC PPV provider. They pay UFC so much that the UFC is essentially making money to the tune of if they were selling about 400-500k buys per PPV now, despite the year before the deal less than 200k was the average unless a star was fighting. But ESPN is overpaying them because they're using UFC as the drawing force to get their ESPN+ app subscribers. Keep in mind that UFC still has their fightpass streaming service, and that 2 of the 3 WWE branded shows blow UFC ratings out of the water on cable.


----------



## Jonhern

Got tickets to Boston and DON. Got 4th-row camera side to Boston. Still a lot of good seats left in the presale. It was a similar experience to buying tickets to the NJ show, and those tickets went fast on the official on-sale day so who knows what happens tomorrow. But very unlikely the second Boston one will be an instant sell-out or otherwise like last time. 

DON was a bit of a pain since AXS gives no option to pick section only price levels which they have not released a map for yet. But I can tell tickets are more expensive than last year. Decided not to get floor since it was 5th row and $300 a ticket, so went with a lower level seat near the center, 5th row. No way of knowing how many tickets are left, but you can still get in on the presale, ringside VIP seats are sold out ($700), and the other VIPs tiers are still available. AXS' version of TM Platnium has some second-row camera side seats for $900 lol, more than the VIPs but without any of the perks.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Alliance of American Football did a 2.9 rating in Week 1 last year, too. It folded 52 days later.
> 
> This is fun. Shall we continue?


Also didn't have as . Such money behind it or nearly as good of a TV deal. 



AEWMoxley said:


> XFL is in trouble with that opening week rating. It needed a way higher number to have any sort of chance of making it past 1 season, since much like the AAF, and much like the first iteration of the XFL, hungry football fans were just tuning in out of curiosity after the end of the NFL season. The XFL drew 14 million viewers for its debut back in 2001. *14 million viewers. *Then their audience decreased by half the following week, by 33% the following week, by 16%, etc., and it eventually bottomed out at 1.5 million. From 14 million to 1.5 million in just a matter of weeks. The AAF drew a similar number to the current iteration of the XFL, and eventually folded after 1 season.
> 
> It's been abundantly clear that people have no long term interest in football outside of college and the NFL.


Why is it in trouble for the rating. Had a higher rating than AAF they're buying a better TV slot and they have more money. 



AEWMoxley said:


> You clearly weren't paying attention to the AAF last year, because there were glowing reviews back then, too. From the media, to places like /r/NFL - everyone was seemingly falling in love with this new league. Then, over the course of the next few weeks, after NFL fans got their football fix and the novelty had worn off and people realized that this, in fact, a minor league, interest started to decline. The exact same thing will happen here. The NFL is too huge to compete with, and football fans, contrary to what you may think, don't care to watch football all year round.


Maybe but AAF wasn't nearly as easy to watch nor did it have someone willing to bankroll it for 3 years. 



AEWMoxley said:


> People tune in to see the best players in the world, coached by the best minds in the sport, not because of punt and kickoff rules. This isn't like wrestling. It's not a story driven event that's scripted for maximum entertainment. This is a legitimate competition, in which people want to see the best compete. Also unlike wrestling, football has one dominant league that generates obscene levels of viewership and revenue. In wrestling, the top dog is a company that has bled an absurd amount of viewers over the last few years. There's room for an alternative brand to exist in wrestling, even without the decades worth of built-in loyalty and viewership. In football, not so much - as we've seen many spring leagues fail over the years. Fans need an offseason from football. They simply do not want to watch it all year round.
> 
> How much money do you think Vince is willing to lose on this venture?


He's clearly willing to lose 300 million at least




bdon said:


> Football doesn’t work post-Super Bowl, because sports fans ramp up their NBA time. Sunday is a traditional hoops day dating back NBA on NBC. As the summer rolls around, basketball gives way to baseball, which is in the heart of its season during this time.
> 
> I won’t say it won’t last, but it’s going to constantly be looking over its shoulder.


The XFL season is fairly short. Basketball doesn't pick up until playoffs and by then XFL is slowing down


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> man, you must be stoked - that was an awesome show


I was!!! I just wished Cody would have come out, my kids were excited to see him. We had to travel back across Texas so we left as soon as Dynamite ended. Kinda sucks that he didn’t come out during a commercial or something for the live crowd.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was!!! I just wished Cody would have come out, my kids were excited to see him. We had to travel back across Texas so we left as soon as Dynamite ended. Kinda sucks that he didn’t come out during a commercial or something for the live crowd.


Sad that you guys didn‘t see him - he was there after the show

but that is obvs too late for the kids

glad you guys liked it - who did your kids enjoy most? Must‘ve been Jungle Boy - what a match!


----------



## Aedubya

I dont think itll crack a mill

0.97 at most


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> I dont think itll crack a mill
> 
> 0.97 at most


yeah, will be standard ratings - next week should be up based in this week’s show

also ramping up nicely to revolution


----------



## RiverFenix

I wonder how ATL is selling for next week given it's a big venue - AEW is doing the best they can to stack the card right now. If they're trying to convince Cobb to sign it's interesting they put him out in front of the good crowd last night and then into the big ATL show.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RapShepard said:


> Also didn't have as . Such money behind it or nearly as good of a TV deal.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it in trouble for the rating. Had a higher rating than AAF they're buying a better TV slot and they have more money.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe but AAF wasn't nearly as easy to watch nor did it have someone willing to bankroll it for 3 years.
> 
> 
> 
> He's clearly willing to lose 300 million at least
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The XFL season is fairly short. Basketball doesn't pick up until playoffs and by then XFL is slowing down


Because that rating will drop precipitously after the first few weeks. It's inevitable. It's not just the AAF - it's every other spring league that has ever existed. Had they started from a higher number, they may have been in decent shape. The first iteration drew 14 million people on its opening day, and still failed in its first season.

Maybe Vince is stubborn enough to keep it going despite losing tens, and maybe hundreds of millions of dollars, though.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sad that you guys didn‘t see him - he was there after the show
> 
> but that is obvs too late for the kids
> 
> glad you guys liked it - who did your kids enjoy most? Must‘ve been Jungle Boy - what a match!


Yes, they love Jungle Boy and Cody. And yeah we should have stayed, I was hoping Cody would come out as soon as Dynamite ended but I understand why he didnt.


----------



## IamMark

AEW 817k-0.30 10th
NXT 757k-0.24 21st


----------



## IamMark




----------



## TKO Wrestling

IamMark said:


> AEW 817k-0.30 10th
> NXT 757k-0.24 21st


That is a backbreaker right there. I really give up on understanding the viewing audience. And, yes, I know it was a go home show for nxt but who the hell cares.

Ugh


----------



## Derek30

Pretty big dip. We will see if the strong show this week helps going forward and with Revolution around the corner


----------



## RapShepard

AEWMoxley said:


> Because that rating will drop precipitously after the first few weeks. It's inevitable. It's not just the AAF - it's every other spring league that has ever existed. Had they started from a higher number, they may have been in decent shape. The first iteration drew 14 million people on its opening day, and still failed in its first season.
> 
> Maybe Vince is stubborn enough to keep it going despite losing tens, and maybe hundreds of millions of dollars, though.


Oh ratings will for sure drop and history isn't in it's favor. But if you're bringing up the AAF you should bring up the benefits the XFL has that the AAF didn't.

I think Colin Cowherd made a great point when discussing how shows like his could use the extra content to discuss between the Superbowl and NBA playoffs. As well as pointing out how ABC and Fox are willing to promote it. I mean from the network stand points it's not like they got much to put on their stations on Saturday and Sunday this time of year, add in XFL is paying for the time why not get behind it.


----------



## RiverFenix

No rhyme or reason.


----------



## bdon

What the fuck is wrong with people? Lmao


----------



## AEW_19

I don't understand the first thing about ratings but it seems the shows that are less liked are popping better ratings than shows that are liked from start to finish. ?


----------



## Buhalovski

Next week is a mini PPV tier show with probably the most stacked card ever. If the raitings are still the same then I dont even know...


----------



## bdon

Well, last week’s show was mostly a dud with the terrible women’s match, Janela and Sabian, etc.


----------



## imthegame19

Very low for such a great show. Oh well they will rebound next week.


----------



## El Hammerstone

AEW_19 said:


> I don't understand the first thing about ratings but it seems the shows that are less liked are popping better ratings than shows that are liked from start to finish. ?


The shows that are more liked haven't typically been the best shows on paper though, that's my take on it.


----------



## rbl85

I've told you numerous times that a good show does not equal big or better rating.

There is no real logic in the TV ratings.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Oh ratings will for sure drop and history isn't in it's favor. But if you're bringing up the AAF you should bring up the benefits the XFL has that the AAF didn't.
> 
> I think Colin Cowherd made a great point when discussing how shows like his could use the extra content to discuss between the Superbowl and NBA playoffs. As well as pointing out how ABC and Fox are willing to promote it. I mean from the network stand points it's not like they got much to put on their stations on Saturday and Sunday this time of year, add in XFL is paying for the time why not get behind it.


No one going to cover 2nd rate league - xfl will fold by season end


----------



## Pippen94

Maybe expectation Becky would show up to confront shayna


----------



## Aedubya

Was there a big basketball game on?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> Maybe expectation Becky would show up to confront shayna


NXT had no effect on AEW's rating lol


----------



## fabi1982

Interesting that AEW dropped in the target audience while NXT grew. Most obviously it is down to the NBA game, but why does NXT not drop then?

really interesting is the total drop when last show also was seen as a very good one by most in here. Maybe the „neckbeards“ idea of a good show differs from the „general audience“?!


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> NXT had no effect on AEW's rating lol


The only effect NXT could have on AEW is that the fans who usually watch AEW and DVR NXT could watch NXT (and DVR AEW) when it's takeover go home show.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Damn that's disappointing. Hopefully things will pick up and remain stable after Revolution. They really deserve it.


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> I've told you numerous times that a good show does not equal big or better rating.
> 
> There is no real logic in the TV ratings.


There is actually. It's based on buzz and hype not quality across tv


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

The show was fucking great, but it didn't seem that great on paper. Two fairly recent rematches, Santana is not exactly an established singles competitor and people likely assumed that it will be just more of the same stuff they've seen with Ortiz, Nyla is not exactly a must see talent. All of it turned out great but I totally see why people skipped it. Next week is STACKED though.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Dynamite was beaten by a show on TBS, the secondary network... Yikes. 

From all the "this episode will crack a million" posts I read here its clear that AEW fans have trouble separating the things they like with the things everyone else does. This is a show that has had half a year and despite 16 weeks of episodes that "are the best yet", "blows Raw and SD out of the water", etc. they are getting 1/3 of the audience and haven't come close in ratings or audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> The only effect NXT could have on AEW is that the fans who usually watch AEW and DVR NXT could watch NXT (and DVR AEW) when it's takeover go home show.


maybe, but the ratings suggest there isn't any significant effect

This was last week:


IamMark said:


> AEW 928k-0.36 11th
> NXT 770k-0.22 34th
> Miz&Mrs 475-0.20 46th


----------



## MOXL3Y

Survivor had to have played a role..

with that said I fully expect AEW to hit 1 million next week or come damn close.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> Dynamite was beaten by a show on TBS, the secondary network... Yikes.
> 
> From all the "this episode will crack a million" posts I read here its clear that AEW fans have trouble separating the things they like with the things everyone else does. This is a show that has had half a year and despite 16 weeks of episodes that "are the best yet", "blows Raw and SD out of the water", etc. they are getting 1/3 of the audience and haven't come close in ratings or audience.


Sadly everyone will call you a hater or WWE shill or freaking asshole for this true comment. Like I said seems like what the AEW hardcores like is not what the audience wants to see.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> maybe, but the ratings suggest there isn't any significant effect


Oh i'm not saying that it has a big effect.

But in a way, last night AEW was a skipable show because they still have 2 shows before Revolution while for NXT it was the last show before Takeover.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Oh i'm not saying that it has a big effect.
> 
> But in a way, last night AEW was a skipable show because they still have 2 shows before Revolution while for NXT it was the last show before Takeover.


yes but nxt also lost viewers

no matter how you look at it, aew lost viewers to something else.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> yes but nxt also lost viewers
> 
> no matter how you look at it, aew lost viewers to something else.


You're right maybe that "Survivor" thing.

Since AEW started they always have been more hurt by "special" programming than NXT.


----------



## RiverFenix

Yeah, I could see Survivor pulling the 100K that was missing. Big time show with a returning legends season.


----------



## Erik.

I think they did their absolute best this week to try and get a huge rating for next week. 

This was a superb show, arguably one of their best and next week is a HUGE card, absolutely stacked.


----------



## RapShepard

What's really interesting is at least on my end the USA network was down, same thing happened a few months ago with TNT being down.



Pippen94 said:


> No one going to cover 2nd rate league - xfl will fold by season end


But they've already been covered by ESPN platforms, Fox Sports, NBC sports that don't air them, and plenty of other outlets. 

Now that doesn't mean they'll stay in business. But your first point is just textbook wrong lol.


----------



## Joe Gill

you guys just dont get it... a casual fan views wrestling a lot differently than a hardcore fan. the fact that the internet fans liked the show has very little correlation with what a casual fan likes. Just look at John Cenas career, despised by hardcore fans and loved by casuals. Even during the attitude era where both harcore fans and casual fans were watching it was for different reasons. 

Ratings will continue to fluctuate.... and in the future if ratings do end up increasing it will not be because of a quality match or a good storyline... it will be something that is often a lot simpler and basic... not something nuanced that only hardcore fans care about.


----------



## MOXL3Y

MJF said:


> I think they did their absolute best this week to try and get a huge rating for next week.
> 
> This was a superb show, arguably one of their best and next week is a HUGE card, absolutely stacked.


And I'll bet it works


----------



## Purple Haze

This show was good but didn't have the same hype as next week, so hopefully they will be back at the 900k mark.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Isn't that always the way - the best show gets a shit rating

Guess people have been conditioned to expect 3 weeks before a PPV to just be filler bullshit - but AEW will teach em different 

Oh well..... on to the next one


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All the ratings ever show me is that every 2nd wrestling household needs someone to come over and punch them in the head 

Edit> is there some political shit going on? Tucker Carlson never draws a 0.3 in the key demo


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> But they've already been covered by ESPN platforms, Fox Sports, NBC sports that don't air them, and plenty of other outlets.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean they'll stay in business. But your first point is just textbook wrong lol.


What 2nd tier comp does any sports show dedicate time to? Answer is none. Xfl only exists because TV showing it. Once ratings drop it'll fold. This happened last year with aaf & xfl 1.0 before. We have seen this all before.


----------



## The Wood

Not surprised at the drop. AEW is cooling, folks. It's not going to be drop after drop after drop with these sorts of fans, but it's like climate change -- a cool day here or there doesn't mean the ice-caps aren't melting. 

But not surprised they seemingly beat NXT either. NXT have been cold as ice recently. They need to ramp up their Mania weekend programs. Getting guys to cross-pollinate a bit more will help too. The Revival doing an open challenge on SmackDown and getting beat by Gargano & Ciampa or something, for example. These sorts of things can make a difference.

Revolution is going to blow-off AEW's big programs and they've got to work out how to keep those wheels spinning past that. What do they really have for Double or Nothing? Jericho vs. Moxley II? Omega vs. Page?


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> What 2nd tier comp does any sports show dedicate time to? Answer is none. Xfl only exists because TV showing it. Once ratings drop it'll fold. This happened last year with aaf & xfl 1.0 before. We have seen this all before.






















The network below doesn't even show XFL games






Can XFL keep excitement going into Week 2? | Pro Football Talk | NBC Sports

That's not including other folk covering it

Again it's okay and not crazy to think they'll be done in a year (despite Vince setting aside money for 3 being known and widely reported) but the coverage claim is founded.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Can XFL keep excitement going into Week 2? | Pro Football Talk | NBC Sports
> 
> That's not including other folk covering it
> 
> Again it's okay and not crazy to think they'll be done in a year (despite Vince setting aside money for 3 being known and widely reported) but the coverage claim is founded.


Do you think Skip & Shannon will talking xfl through the year - no way. Coverage due to debut. No interest will mean this will disappear & so with league before long.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> Dynamite was beaten by a show on TBS, the secondary network... Yikes.
> 
> From all the "this episode will crack a million" posts I read here its clear that AEW fans have trouble separating the things they like with the things everyone else does. This is a show that has had half a year and despite 16 weeks of episodes that "are the best yet", "blows Raw and SD out of the water", etc. they are getting 1/3 of the audience and haven't come close in ratings or audience.


The talk about the show cracking one million was ridiculous. A good show is more likely to increase the show for the next week. People don't know it is going to be good before they watch it, lol. That being said, a good show can leave people satisfied and feeling like they don't need any more. I watched Raw a few weeks back, liked it, but decided I wasn't going to check it out again. It's just too much. 

I don't know what the card is for next week and I follow wrestling pretty ardently. So people are not necessarily going to be checking it out because of whatever it is they've lined up. Wrestling fans are a unique little bubble now. 

It might work and they might get a big ratings. But how do people expect them to get a giant number if there isn't a giant number watching in the first place? 



Joe Gill said:


> you guys just dont get it... a casual fan views wrestling a lot differently than a hardcore fan. the fact that the internet fans liked the show has very little correlation with what a casual fan likes. Just look at John Cenas career, despised by hardcore fans and loved by casuals. Even during the attitude era where both harcore fans and casual fans were watching it was for different reasons.
> 
> Ratings will continue to fluctuate.... and in the future if ratings do end up increasing it will not be because of a quality match or a good storyline... it will be something that is often a lot simpler and basic... not something nuanced that only hardcore fans care about.


There's truth in this. Wrestling works best when you get great workers and put them together into great pairings that people care about. The way that promotions go about it right now and what they seem to value isn't that perfect synthesis though.


----------



## Chrome

That's a disappointing number tbh considering it was the best episode of Dynamite this year imo. Oh well, next week should it should bounce back.


----------



## DOTL

I think it’s clear AEW benefits from a higher average viewership for the night. This indicates to me that this isn’t must-see tv for casuals just yet.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Do you think Skip & Shannon will talking xfl through the year - no way. Coverage due to debut. No interest will mean this will disappear & so with league before long.


They've covered it before. Surely it won't be no long segment or big segment. But seeing as it's 4 games a week them discussing it for a quick section, isn't out of the question. Especially considering they've discussed it before.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> All the ratings ever show me is that every 2nd wrestling household needs someone to come over and punch them in the head
> 
> Edit> is there some political shit going on? Tucker Carlson never draws a 0.3 in the key demo


Tucker did better on Tuesday and Monday night. 




__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Tuesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 2.11.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com








__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 2.10.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





That's a lame excuse.


----------



## One Shed

One thing with ratings is if you have a bad show, it may get high ratings but the next show will usually be down even if THAT show is good. I think that is likely what happened here. Last week's show was not great. Ratings will likely be up based on this week's show from those viewing DVR and word of mouth.


----------



## bdon

Like I said, great show this week. Last week’s show was all about Cody, hence the rest of the show was just “meh”.

Can’t have any stealing Cody’s spotlight. NEVER AGAIN!!


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Wood said:


> The talk about the show cracking one million was ridiculous. A good show is more likely to increase the show for the next week. People don't know it is going to be good before they watch it, lol. That being said, a good show can leave people satisfied and feeling like they don't need any more. I watched Raw a few weeks back, liked it, but decided I wasn't going to check it out again. It's just too much.
> 
> I don't know what the card is for next week and I follow wrestling pretty ardently. So people are not necessarily going to be checking it out because of whatever it is they've lined up. Wrestling fans are a unique little bubble now.
> 
> It might work and they might get a big ratings. But how do people expect them to get a giant number if there isn't a giant number watching in the first place?


It's hard to tell whats good or what's bad when it comes to AEW because every week no matter who wrestles or does a promo or any kind of segment, AEW fans on here and SquaredCircle proclaim it to be the best show ever. And when I go watch it after, I'm always underwhelmed. 

It's like New Japan 2.0 honestly. I was told it had better wrestling, bigger stars and was better than the WWE, so I tuned in, and all I saw was boring Japanese shit, and I tuned out.


----------



## bdon

Last night’s show legit felt like a step back into the late 90s. And I am never afraid to be critical of the show.


----------



## Buhalovski

NathanMayberry said:


> It's hard to tell whats good or what's bad when it comes to AEW because every week no matter who wrestles or does a promo or any kind of segment, AEW fans on here and SquaredCircle proclaim it to be the best show ever. And when I go watch it after, I'm always underwhelmed.
> 
> It's like New Japan 2.0 honestly. I was told it had better wrestling, bigger stars and was better than the WWE, so I tuned in, and all I saw was boring Japanese shit, and I tuned out.


Im not a hardcore AEW mark at all but the current WWE product shouldnt be any barometer when it comes to good shows or not.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> You're right maybe that "Survivor" thing.
> 
> Since AEW started they always have been more hurt by "special" programming than NXT.


There's 700 and something thousand wrestling fans not watching AEW because they'd prefer NXT. That's effecting AEW far more than 100k switching over and watching "special" programming.


----------



## Cult03

IamMark said:


> AEW 817k-0.30 10th
> NXT 757k-0.24 21st


Ouch.

Next week will be better after a good show. When people on here say its a good show so it deserves a good rating it doesn't make sense as people mostly decide to watch something beforehand anyway.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not really surprising. The range seems to be 800k - 970k for a while now. Anything below that is a concern and anything 1m+ is a massive success.

Don't see either happening anytime soon unless a major known star is signed. Not talking about the likes of Matt Hardy or Luke Harper though


----------



## NathanMayberry

Tsvetoslava said:


> Im not a hardcore AEW mark at all but the current WWE product shouldnt be any barometer when it comes to good shows or not.


I agree, but the ratings and viewership they get definitely should be.


----------



## The Wood

Tsvetoslava said:


> Im not a hardcore AEW mark at all but the current WWE product shouldnt be any barometer when it comes to good shows or not.


Lol, where did he say that?


----------



## Brodus Clay

Good they need this punishment for robbing Riho of her belt, Kenny Betrayer Omega fuck you for letting this happen.


----------



## Jonhern

NathanMayberry said:


> I agree, but the ratings and viewership they get definitely should be.


Ratings are not about quality. What you think a good show is shouldn't rest on the rating it gets. McDonald's isn't the best burger just because they sell the most. Young Sheldon is not the best comedy on tv just because a lot of people watch it. And raw is not a better wrestling show just because it has more viewers.


----------



## The Wood

Jonhern said:


> Ratings are not about quality. What you think a good show is shouldn't rest on the rating it gets. McDonald's isn't the best burger just because they sell the most. Young Sheldon is not the best comedy on tv just because a lot of people watch it. And raw is not a better wrestling show just because it has more viewers.


But if you goal is to sell the most burgers then you should definitely be looking to McDonald's. Or finding a way to sell more burgers of a better quality to corner out that section of the market. Having the best burger no one cares about is not good either. 

By the sounds of it, NXT had an excellent show too. They are building to their Portland show, which is no doubt going to be amazing. Gargano vs. Balor, Cole vs. Ciampa, Keith Lee vs. Dominic Dijakovic and the Tag Title are all probably matches that the hardcore audience would consider "Match of the Year" candidates. They're also now up to six matches. There will be pressure on the women to keep up, but hey, Nox and Kai have got the smoke and mirrors. Rhea and Bianca are over. 

Could be looking at a "Show of the Year," which might affect things next week. I looked up what AEW has. Jeff Cobb, an unknown, facing Moxley. The tag team clusterfuck. Omega & Page vs. Lucha Bros, which feels like it has happened a million times (not sure if it has or not). And a Steel Cage with another unknown guy. I mean, it could do really well, but NXT is also batting with Velveteen Dream vs. Roderick Strong in a rather personal match and Lio Rush challenging Jordan Devlin for the Cruiserweight Title. You might also get some sort of angle at Takeover which sets up another thing. 

Could be closer next week than people realize.


----------



## bdon

It’s disappointing that these shows aren’t catching on, but whatever, it was great as I’m sure NXT was as well.

MAKE WEDNESDAY THE WRESTLING NIGHT, PEOPLE!


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Disappointing number for a strong show. One of my favorite Dynamite's to date.

Usual suspects on here jerking off over NXT losing the demo like they have every week except for Dec 18th. But, but, but 10 percent more for NXT and 10 percent less for AEW. 21st is better than 10th derp.


I remember summer-fall 1997 when WWF was putting out much better quality with Austin, Hart Foundation, Taker and HBK but was not seeing a big increase in ratings though. Ratings and quality not always parallel.

Survivor was a big deal watched it with my wife last night (DVR'ed) but it is an All Star Season and should draw big.


----------



## The Wood

People rather watching something else is not a great excuse. If you can't outdraw Survivor, maybe you need to rethink some things?


----------



## Bubbly

The problem is if someone isn't watching then how will they know that it is a great show? I think you'll find that the number of people who actually flick from one show to the other every segment is actually a very small number. What you need is an act that draws everyone in and then the great show around that segment/act can help keep them. I'm no expert but it just seems like common sense to me. I also imagine the impact of a great show would probably be more apparent the week after.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Jonhern said:


> Ratings are not about quality. What you think a good show is shouldn't rest on the rating it gets.


Quality is subjective. 




> McDonald's isn't the best burger just because they sell the most.


They may not have the best burger, but they have good burgers and appeal to a wide set of people, for some that is all they need. I personally would 9 times out of 10 get 2 dollar menu burgers, nuggets, fries and a drink from Mc Donald's pay $20+ for an "amazing" burger and a spoonful of fries at any of those restaurants that sell amazing burgers. Its just food. Who cares if its not the best-tasting burger that you'll put in your mouth, if it tastes good when you eat it and leaves you wanting more? 



> Young Sheldon is not the best comedy on tv just because a lot of people watch it.


I don't watch it but I imagine it must have some humor and it must appeal to a wide set of people. Some people simply want to be entertained for 30 minutes and move on with their lives afterward. If Young Sheldon gives them that then c'est la vie. Comedy is subjective. I rarely laugh when watching the Comedy Network, whilst it leaves others in stitches. 

I really don't think they care if they're not watching the best comedy on TV. What matters to them is that the show they're watching now entertains them and it clearly does, otherwise they wouldn't be watching it. 



> And raw is not a better wrestling show just because it has more viewers.


What makes Dynamite better than Raw or Smackdown?


----------



## Y2K23

Disappointing number for one of the most flawless episodes of pro wrestling I've ever seen. Just 2 hours of complete logical entertainment, you don't see that nowadays.


Ratings will come.


----------



## NathanMayberry

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Disappointing number for a strong show. One of my favorite Dynamite's to date.
> 
> Usual suspects on here jerking off over NXT losing the demo like they have every week except for Dec 18th. But, but, but 10 percent more for NXT and 10 percent less for AEW. 21st is better than 10th derp.
> 
> 
> I remember summer-fall 1997 when WWF was putting out much better quality with Austin, Hart Foundation, Taker and HBK but was not seeing a big increase in ratings though. Ratings and quality not always parallel.
> 
> Survivor was a big deal watched it with my wife last night (DVR'ed) but it is an All Star Season and should draw big.


Survivor had 6.5 million viewers and was the 4th most-watched show of the night. It was beaten by ordinary episodes of Chicago Med and Fire and The Masked Singer.










Those are ordinary numbers for Wednesday night Network TV.


----------



## bdon

The show last week sucked, like I said, and as a result, fewer people watched. It’s as simple as that. That was a terrible show with weak in-ring action, aside from a pointless Moxley match and another pointless 8-man tag match, all in an effort as to not upstage Cody’s powerful, very serious-toned lashings segment.

Cody is not a team player.


----------



## bdon

This really explains it.

Last week was all about one segment and dragging viewers along for a single payoff that also dragged along too long. Viewers are conditioned to believing the story is in the payoff, whereas AEW is in the twists and turns of the journey and the sights you’ll see along the way.

Last week was only about Cody, so fans waited for TWO FUCKING HOURS, mindlessly watching a rather crap show just for one angle. Why would they tune-in this week if they don’t have a great-looking card and no pay off?

It is akin to the effects that spot monkeys have on wrestling. Eventually, everyone has to flip or flop, without rhyme or reason, or else they’re not going to get over.

Put out a good product, from start to finish, and don’t try to spot monkey the show with one segment that is hiding the weaknesses.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> But if you goal is to sell the most burgers then you should definitely be looking to McDonald's. Or finding a way to sell more burgers of a better quality to corner out that section of the market. Having the best burger no one cares about is not good either.


McDonald’s is on top because they were first. The got the ball rolling on brand awareness before anyone else and could only do so because they were the first to use an innovative production and franchising model.

Saying AEW should look to RAW because of the ratings is ironic because WWE would have never done that in its early stages.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Cody is not a team player.


you know he booked this week‘s great show too? If you gonna lash the man, you have to give him his due too


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Last night’s show legit felt like a step back into the late 90s. And I am never afraid to be critical of the show.


Can you explain that a little more? What about that felt like the 90s with their larger than life characters? You would never see a 20mins tag team match back then. You would not have such a womens match back then.You wouldnt have 10+mins from two guys the size of JB and MJF. So please explain why this felt like the 90? Is having a loud crowd already such a good fix that you feel like back in the 90s?


----------



## kingfrass44

Coup De Grace said:


> Survivor had to have played a role..
> 
> with that said I fully expect AEW to hit 1 million next week or come damn close.


I don think expect AEW to hit 1 million next week
Next week the usual number 900k
Million number After it becomes Moxley Win Championship


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Can you explain that a little more? What about that felt like the 90s with their larger than life characters? You would never see a 20mins tag team match back then. You would not have such a womens match back then.You wouldnt have 10+mins from two guys the size of JB and MJF. So please explain why this felt like the 90? Is having a loud crowd already such a good fix that you feel like back in the 90s?


A show that, from end to end, hit on all cylinders while progressing storylines, mix of great in-ring action and promos/vignettes, a big brawl, young guys stealing the show with a quality match, etc.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> A show that, from end to end, hit on all cylinders while progressing storylines, mix of great in-ring action and promos/vignettes, a big brawl, young guys stealing the show with a quality match, etc.


Ok this for me at least has nothing to do with a wrestling show from the 90s, but thanks for explaining, even with me not agreeing


----------



## bdon

It isn’t about the characters but the content, the pacing, the wrestling-driven storylines, etc.


----------



## imthegame19

Ratings notes on this week observer. This weeks show started pretty poor with 756,000 viewers and lost of first three of four quarters to NXT. With AEW doing much better in final hour with Moxley/Santana beating NXT main event 861,000 to 652,000. 


AEW opened at 756,000 viewers and 375,000 in 18-49 this week which is weirdly low considering they opened with 1,015,000 viewers and 516,000 in 18-49 just last week. Meltzer suggests there was a weaker lead-in movie on TNT but that wouldn't explain the difference to this degree.

NXT opened at 827,000 viewers and 296,000 in 18-49 this week which is pretty much the same as last week with 811,000 viewers and 298,000 in 18-49, so the bad start was exclusive to AEW.
After the bad start, AEW this week broke the usual Wednesday ratings pattern for both shows of starting high and trickling off, meaning they gained significant audience throughout the show.
NXT won three of the first four quarters overall, although AEW won every quarter in 18-49. NXT faded while AEW grew as the show was going on. AEW won by a significant margin in the second hour.
The head-to head main events had AEW finishing with 861,000 viewers and 402,000 in 18-49, which is an overall gain of 105,000, and NXT had 652,000 total viewers and 290,000 in 18-49 which is an overall loss of 175,000, following the usual pattern for Wednesday nights.
AEW biggest quarter hour gain was 115,000 viewers and 45,000 in 18-49 for the end of Riho vs. Rose, the post-match, and the Chris Jericho/Inner Circle promo. However, AEW's biggest quarter hour loss was 85,000 viewers and 39,000 in 18-49 for the beginning of Riho vs. Nyla Rose. To me what that might say about Riho vs Nyla is that it's a big divider amongst viewers, lots of people loved it and lots of people didn't. Or it might just mean people didn't give it a chance at the beginning but it won people over by the end and got people gripped.


----------



## bdon

Fucking SCU sucks, man. Ratings killer.

But the little hints of heel-ish tactics showed some potential. I liked them better in that setting.


----------



## bdon

Starting off babyface vs babyface is never a good idea. Hell, that is just never a good idea in general, but SCU made it work understanding their role in a match with Page/Omega.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Ratings notes on this week observer. This weeks show started pretty poor with 756,000 viewers and lost of first three of four quarters to NXT. With AEW doing much better in final hour with Moxley/Santana beating NXT main event 861,000 to 652,000.
> 
> 
> AEW opened at 756,000 viewers and 375,000 in 18-49 this week which is weirdly low considering they opened with 1,015,000 viewers and 516,000 in 18-49 just last week. Meltzer suggests there was a weaker lead-in movie on TNT but that wouldn't explain the difference to this degree.
> 
> NXT opened at 827,000 viewers and 296,000 in 18-49 this week which is pretty much the same as last week with 811,000 viewers and 298,000 in 18-49, so the bad start was exclusive to AEW.
> After the bad start, AEW this week broke the usual Wednesday ratings pattern for both shows of starting high and trickling off, meaning they gained significant audience throughout the show.
> NXT won three of the first four quarters overall, although AEW won every quarter in 18-49. NXT faded while AEW grew as the show was going on. AEW won by a significant margin in the second hour.
> The head-to head main events had AEW finishing with 861,000 viewers and 402,000 in 18-49, which is an overall gain of 105,000, and NXT had 652,000 total viewers and 290,000 in 18-49 which is an overall loss of 175,000, following the usual pattern for Wednesday nights.
> AEW biggest quarter hour gain was 115,000 viewers and 45,000 in 18-49 for the end of Riho vs. Rose, the post-match, and the Chris Jericho/Inner Circle promo. However, AEW's biggest quarter hour loss was 85,000 viewers and 39,000 in 18-49 for the beginning of Riho vs. Nyla Rose. To me what that might say about Riho vs Nyla is that it's a big divider amongst viewers, lots of people loved it and lots of people didn't. Or it might just mean people didn't give it a chance at the beginning but it won people over by the end and got people gripped.


A gain of 105,000. Is that the biggest gain they've ever had for a main event? It must be close to it, at the very least.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Starting off babyface vs babyface is never a good idea. Hell, that is just never a good idea in general, but SCU made it work understanding their role in a match with Page/Omega.


Everyone knew that they won’t take the titles from Page/Omega. A rematch is always predictable.

why companies still do rematches in 2020 I have no idea. I have always considered a title rematch as FILLER


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> A gain of 105,000. Is that the biggest gain they've ever had for a main event? It must be close to it, at the very least.


I didn't see what the quarter before did. But usually the show opens with high rating. So this might be biggest gap from opening to ending quarters. Usually they are a lot closer between the two quarters. With first quarter often higher then main event.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> I didn't see what the quarter before did. But usually the show opens with high rating. So this might be biggest gap from opening to ending quarters. Usually they are a lot closer between the two quarters. With first quarter often higher then main event.


Meltzer's report says:



> The head-to head main events had AEW finishing with 861,000 viewers and 402,000 in 18-49, which is an overall gain of 105,000


So Q8, which featured the main event, had an increase of 105K from Q7.

That's the highest gain for a final quarter that I remember seeing.


----------



## Jonhern

took this off Redditt via WON, for those who were asking about UK ratings:


> Regarding U.K. ratings, they were expected to drop with the move from Sky to BT, which is in fewer homes. But the opposite has happened as BT has made promotion of WWE a priority, something Sky hasn’t done for years and the numbers are up from the past two or so years. For the week ending on 2/2, Raw did 75,800 viewers live, Smackdown did 111,000 viewers while NXT did 12,600 viewers. MLW on Freesports did 16,800 viewers that week. AEW on ITV did about 100,000 viewers this past week which is much lower than they started out at, which was nearly 300,000. The first week of Raw and Smackdown on TV 5 did 200,000 and 100,000 respectively. So the idea that AEW would dominate viewing numbers, which was the case when WWE was on Sky, is no longer the case with the WWE move to BT and the new deal with 5. However regarding overnight numbers for this past week, they listed AEW on ITV 4 at 45,000 for the first airing on 2/7, Impact of 5 Star did 59,000, Raw on BT on 2/3 did 4,000 and on 2/10 did 24,000. Smackdown didn’t even register the last two weeks (meaning in theory less than 1,000 viewers) this past week


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jonhern said:


> took this off Redditt via WON, for those who were asking about UK ratings:


AEW doing very well in UK, you love to see it.


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> Fucking SCU sucks, man. Ratings killer.


 There is something not clicking with them, I’ll give you that.

Personally, I think it’s their gimmick. I hate to say it, no one but Southern Californians care about Southern California.

The heel tactics show promise.


----------



## shadows123

fabi1982 said:


> Ok this for me at least has nothing to do with a wrestling show from the 90s, but thanks for explaining, even with me not agreeing


For me, its more to do with the fact that for a change, I want the heels to be beat and have their come uppance..unlike the regular WWE status quo where the baby faces are not only booked with these goofy stuffs but they also beat the heels so much that everyone cheers the heels instead.. Nothing to do with the 90's though but it does remind me of the times when we used to look forward to what happens next even if its for a selective set of feuds..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DOTL said:


> There is something not clicking with them, I’ll give you that.
> 
> Personally, I think it’s their gimmick. I hate to say it, no one but Southern Californians care about Southern California.
> 
> The heel tactics show promise.


their whole gimmick is heel - they should just revert to ‘this is the worst town’ bit - but really lean into it - get heat


----------



## fabi1982

shadows123 said:


> For me, its more to do with the fact that for a change, I want the heels to be beat and have their come uppance..unlike the regular WWE status quo where the baby faces are not only booked with these goofy stuffs but they also beat the heels so much that everyone cheers the heels instead.. Nothing to do with the 90's though but it does remind me of the times when we used to look forward to what happens next even if its for a selective set of feuds..


Good point, that is definitelly a positive at the moment. But with just 16 weeks of tv in it is easy. They will get to the point where it is hard to give the people what they want


----------



## shadows123

fabi1982 said:


> Good point, that is definitelly a positive at the moment. But with just 16 weeks of tv in it is easy. They will get to the point where it is hard to give the people what they want


They seem to book long term and are playing to everyone's strengths.. And they have the right people building the feuds for now...Hell they seem to get people who many in this forum deem as trash over..As long as they dont go WWE way (deciding who should be a star and bull dozing fan opinion, like maybe Cody and Young bucks having a reign of terror ala Triple H) it should be fine for them at least in the near future... I mean think about the arrogant stuff WWE has done .. Interviews like we are giving fans what they want, its just that the rules of heel and faces have changed now a days..and the fans boo who they want to cheer and cheer who they want to boo etc... Vince has done quite the job that its quite surprising fans are still in the 2 million mark..


----------



## DOTL

LifeInCattleClass said:


> their whole gimmick is heel - they should just revert to ‘this is the worst town’ bit - but really lean into it - get heat


That’s what I was thinking


----------



## The Wood

Bubbly said:


> The problem is if someone isn't watching then how will they know that it is a great show? I think you'll find that the number of people who actually flick from one show to the other every segment is actually a very small number. What you need is an act that draws everyone in and then the great show around that segment/act can help keep them. I'm no expert but it just seems like common sense to me. I also imagine the impact of a great show would probably be more apparent the week after.


This is a great point. People's whose insight I trust have theorized that there are about 1.5-1.7 million smarks who will watch wrestling regardless of how good or bad it is, and that number is not going to change. 

I'm actually an optimist and think that good wrestling could do better, but some people are pretty certain that the needle is not going to move. 



Y2K23 said:


> Disappointing number for one of the most flawless episodes of pro wrestling I've ever seen. Just 2 hours of complete logical entertainment, you don't see that nowadays.
> 
> 
> Ratings will come.


Well, I can tell that you're a modern era fan. 



DOTL said:


> McDonald’s is on top because they were first. The got the ball rolling on brand awareness before anyone else and could only do so because they were the first to use an innovative production and franchising model.
> 
> Saying AEW should look to RAW because of the ratings is ironic because WWE would have never done that in its early stages.


Not true. Plenty of businesses start-up and do well. This is common sense. What a ridiculous point.


----------



## rbl85

I don't think DON is going to sell out, well it does not look like it.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Not true. Plenty of businesses start-up and do well. This is common sense. What a ridiculous point.


You didn’t say “do well.” You said become the market leader. Those are different things entirely. AEW is already doing well.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I don't think DON is going to sell out, well it does not look like it.


If Revolution sold out, so will this. This is supposed to be a much bigger event.

If not today, then definitely after fans get a better picture of what the main event will be.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> If Revolution sold out, so will this. This is supposed to be a much bigger event.


Yeah but people don't know the matches for DON.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but people don't know the matches for DON.


I edited my post to reflect that.

Even if it's not an instant sell out, they will sell the building out once the direction of the card becomes clear.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I edited my post to reflect that.
> 
> Even if it's not an instant sell out, they will sell the building out once the direction of the card becomes clear.


In my original post i was only talking about DON not selling out today, of course it's going to be a sell out in the end.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You didn’t say “do well.” You said become the market leader. Those are different things entirely. AEW is already doing well.


No I didn't. I said if their goal is to sell the most burgers (this could be taken to be either the market leader or just the most possible), or carve out their own niche. You've just made this fucking up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah, no way DON does not sell out - agreed, not today

But by event time there'll only be 'incidental' seats left


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> No I didn't. I said if their goal is to sell the most burgers (this could be taken to be either the market leader or just the most possible), or carve out their own niche. You've just made this fucking up.


McDonalds was brought up for being on the top of the market despite its quality (What am I suppose to think “selling the most burgers” means in that context?)

Anyway my point is looking to the market leader as a way to sell more product isn’t the greatest idea because most of the time the market leader became the leader in circumstances outside of current market conditions which they themselves influenced.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

That number is fine to me honestly. Don't see how it's bad.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> McDonalds was brought up for being on the top of the market despite its quality (What am I suppose to think “selling the most burgers” means in that context?)
> 
> Anyway my point is looking to the market leader as a way to sell more product isn’t the greatest idea because most of the time the market leader became the leader in circumstances outside of current market conditions which they themselves influenced.


Gee, I dunno, that they are trying to sell the most burgers possible for them? Your inability to comprehend explains a lot.

Your point about looking to the market leader is silly. There is always something to learn. You may not be able to replicate everything, but that was nobody's point.

By your logic, McDonald's would be the only global fast food chain, or the only one that sold burgers. Neither of these is correct. Pack up.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> I don't think DON is going to sell out, well it does not look like it.


Is it true they sold 7,000 tickets already?


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Gee, I dunno, that they are trying to sell the most burgers possible for them? Your inability to comprehend explains a lot.


Your post above this says that the line could have been interpreted two ways. I assumed you wanted to make sense, so I chose the one that fit the context. Don’t blame others for your self admitted poor writing.
(Forgot arguing semantics with this guy is a waste of time.)

I’m not arguing that you can’t learn anything from the market leader to become generally successful. I’m not talking about general success at all. I’m saying patterning yourself after them and expecting the same type of results is asinine because the market leader (and the market) is more often than not different now than when they became market leader.

Basically I’m saying the notion of “to be the best, you have to look to the best” is loserthink and is the opposite of what most top brands have done to get to the top. McDonald’s and McMahon included.


----------



## Jazminator

rbl85 said:


> In my original post i was only talking about DON not selling out today, of course it's going to be a sell out in the end.


Do you think there will be another "Starcast" as part of the DON week?


----------



## imthegame19

Jazminator said:


> Do you think there will be another "Starcast" as part of the DON week?


I saw on Twitter no Starcast. Looks like Double Or Nothing sold 6,000 tickets so far. AEW might want to move Double or Nothing to different market next year. 

Last year it sold out super fast because of crazy demand to go to AEW first show. So fans where willing to travel to Vegas for the show. Without huge travel demand Vegas isn't gonna be market like Chicago that sells out right away. Still I expect this show to end up at least 9,000 come May 23rd.


----------



## Pippen94

imthegame19 said:


> I saw on Twitter no Starcast. Looks like Double Or Nothing sold 6,000 tickets so far. AEW might want to move Double or Nothing to different market next year.
> 
> Last year it sold out super fast because of crazy demand to go to AEW first show. So fans where willing to travel to Vegas for the show. Without huge travel demand Vegas isn't gonna be market like Chicago that sells out right away. Still I expect this show to end up at least 9,000 come May 23rd.


Nobody knows what matches will be involved yet


----------



## imthegame19

Pippen94 said:


> Nobody knows what matches will be involved yet



Yeah they didn't officially know matches for Revolution either. But they were teasing Moxley vs Jericho three weeks before tickets went on sale. I know I bought tickets for Revolution for that match. Right now we have no idea what card will be for Double Or Nothing.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I don't see how that rating is bad honestly.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> I saw on Twitter no Starcast. Looks like Double Or Nothing sold 6,000 tickets so far. AEW might want to move Double or Nothing to different market next year.
> 
> Last year it sold out super fast because of crazy demand to go to AEW first show. So fans where willing to travel to Vegas for the show. Without huge travel demand Vegas isn't gonna be market like Chicago that sells out right away. Still I expect this show to end up at least 9,000 come May 23rd.


I like the idea of LV becoming a permanent home for DoN. 
however, for it to be successful every year, they need to make a whole weekend of it to get people to come every year. 
Just like Wrestlemania weekend.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> I like the idea of LV becoming a permanent home for DoN.
> however, for it to be successful every year, they need to make a whole weekend of it to get people to come every year.
> Just like Wrestlemania weekend.


Yeah i saw a lot of tweets saying "i would have come if it wasn't only for 1 night"


----------



## RiverFenix

I like the idea of permanent locations for PPV's provided provided they spread them out geographically. All Out in Chicago on Labor Day weekend, Double or Nothing in Las Vegas, I still think Revolution should have been in Atlanta and hope that Dynamite sells well and they stake a regular PPV location there going forward. Thanksgiving week in Chicago is fine, a homecoming show in Jacksonville after New Years annually would be good as well. 

Khan coming from pro sports world - it makes sense to view things differently and to establish "home fields". They go back to Chicago a lot, but NFL teams sell out 8 home games a year. If they can get 5-6 shows out out of the same venue in Chicago and run it yearly, I wonder if they'd try selling a "season ticket" package. All Out, Thanksgiving Dynamite would be the two "special" shows and the 3-4 Dynamites more a year.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Your post above this says that the line could have been interpreted two ways. I assumed you wanted to make sense, so I chose the one that fit the context. Don’t blame others for your self admitted poor writing.
> (Forgot arguing semantics with this guy is a waste of time.)
> 
> I’m not arguing that you can’t learn anything from the market leader to become generally successful. I’m not talking about general success at all. I’m saying patterning yourself after them and expecting the same type of results is asinine because the market leader (and the market) is more often than not different now than when they became market leader.
> 
> Basically I’m saying the notion of “to be the best, you have to look to the best” is loserthink and is the opposite of what most top brands have done to get to the top. McDonald’s and McMahon included.


Lol, my writing is fine. The issue is your inability to comprehend or be reasonable. The line “if you want to make the most burgers possible” is perfectly fine. You’ve taken it and given it a rigid context.

A little girl at her lemonade stand wants to sell the most lemonade possible. It doesn’t mean she’s going to take on Sprite.

And, again, no one is saying that you do exactly the same thing. Why are you stuck on this? When the argument is that there is always something you can learn from the market leader, why is your counter “I know that, but...”? Shut the fuck up. There are no buts. You’ve gotten caught up in an analogy you don’t understand in order to try and point out some real basic shit to have an argument no one else is having.


----------



## Pippen94

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I like the idea of permanent locations for PPV's provided provided they spread them out geographically. All Out in Chicago on Labor Day weekend, Double or Nothing in Las Vegas, I still think Revolution should have been in Atlanta and hope that Dynamite sells well and they stake a regular PPV location there going forward. Thanksgiving week in Chicago is fine, a homecoming show in Jacksonville after New Years annually would be good as well.
> 
> Khan coming from pro sports world - it makes sense to view things differently and to establish "home fields". They go back to Chicago a lot, but NFL teams sell out 8 home games a year. If they can get 5-6 shows out out of the same venue in Chicago and run it yearly, I wonder if they'd try selling a "season ticket" package. All Out, Thanksgiving Dynamite would be the two "special" shows and the 3-4 Dynamites more a year.


Greater Chicago, New York, LA & Dallas have huge populations - it makes sense aew running places like these more often as chances for large crowds greater.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Lol, my writing is fine. The issue is your inability to comprehend or be reasonable. The line “if you want to make the most burgers possible” is perfectly fine. You’ve taken it and given it a rigid context.


This is you. . .


The Wood said:


> ... (this could be taken to be either the market leader or just the most possible)...


This is also you:


The Wood said:


> *But if you goal is to sell the most burgers then you should definitely be looking to McDonald's*.


That is what I responded to and it is in response to this from another poster:


> Ratings are not about quality. What you think a good show is shouldn't rest on the rating it gets. McDonald's isn't the best burger* just because they sell the most*.


After reading all this why would I interpret what you wrote in this exchange as "the most burgers possible"? The post you yourself are referring to is talking about "McDonald's selling the most," full stop, as in their being the market leader; an analogy you go on to reprise and extend by saying looking to them as an example is a must if one wishes to "sell the most burgers." Full stop.
Now, I'm not in your head, and you very well may have meant "most burgers possible," but if communication is the purpose of writing, why is a sentence that you admit is ambiguous being interpreted in a way you didn't intend? What scenario makes the most sense, here? An evil/stupid person is exploiting/misinterpreting phrasing you yourself didn't include at the time of the post ["sell the most possible."] or your omission of clear phrasing undermined the intended meaning?


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> This is you. . .
> 
> This is also you:
> 
> That is what I responded to and it is in response to this from another poster:
> 
> 
> After reading all this why would I interpret what you wrote in this exchange as "the most burgers possible"? The post you yourself are referring to is talking about "McDonald's selling the most," full stop, as in their being the market leader; an analogy you go on to reprise and extend by saying looking to them as an example is a must if one wishes to "sell the most burgers." Full stop.
> Now, I'm not in your head, and you very well may have meant "most burgers possible," but if communication is the purpose of writing, why is a sentence that you admit is ambiguous being interpreted in a way you didn't intend? What scenario makes the most sense, here? An evil/stupid person is exploiting phrasing you yourself omitted at the time of the post ["sell the most possible."] or the omission of clear phrasing undermined the intended meaning?


You are insufferable. If you cannot comprehend what is going on, that is on you. No one else would get chained to this analogy. You’re not even arguing semantics, you are trying to twist words and meanings. This is trolling.

Even if it were a mistake, hinging entire arguments on the omission of one word is just downright cunty. No one with any reputable thoughts does that.

Besides, I don’t think the general and intentional ambiguity of “the most burgers,” in the context of this conversation is difficult at all. It’s about doing your most. We are talking about a wrestling promotion working out how to market itself. We’re not even talking burgers. You’re chaining yourself to this metaphor and are willing to go down with that ship for some reason. And no, chaining is not literal here, and there is no real ship. ;-)

Imagine if someone said “film studios can look to Disney if they want to work out the ways to distribute the most movies” and what someone took from it was “you can’t do what Disney did.” Fucking hell.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You are insufferable. If you cannot comprehend what is going on, that is on you. No one else would get chained to this analogy. You’re not even arguing semantics, you are trying to twist words and meanings. This is trolling.
> 
> Even if it were a mistake, hinging entire arguments on the omission of one word is just downright cunty. No one with any reputable thoughts does that.
> 
> Besides, I don’t think the general and intentional ambiguity of “the most burgers,” in the context of this conversation is difficult at all. It’s about doing your most. We are talking about a wrestling promotion working out how to market itself. We’re not even talking burgers. You’re chaining yourself to this metaphor and are willing to go down with that ship for some reason. And no, chaining is not literal here, and there is no real ship. ;-)


That's a lot of words to say "I screwed up but it's your fault because you can't read minds."

?

Anyway. Analogy aside. There is not much AEW can emulate in WWE that can help them become number one, or even "sell as much as possible", whatever the heck that means. WWE is in that spot after the success of years of being a smarter and much more competitive company that navigated the particulars of THEIR market 20+ years ago, and are currently in a tenuous situation because of mismanagement. Maybe AEW can get some structural pointers or look to the past, but if you suggest they should look at the promotional strategy and, God forbid (I hope you don't mean this), the product of today for growth? Please.

WWE's tactics aren't even working for WWE.



> Imagine if someone said “film studios can look to Disney if they want to work out the ways to distribute the most movies” and what someone took from it was “you can’t do what Disney did.” Fucking hell.


So a company should spend billions of dollars on rights, content, and a new digital streaming service because that's what's Disney's doing. This literal example been done on a smaller scale and flopped hard. Marvel's strategy of long form expanded universes was attempted by everyone from WB to Universal. Nothing worked. That's because Disney owns 38% of the total market and many beloved franchises and a creative management team that had a unique vision for their properties.

On the surface what you say makes sense, but underneath it's ridiculous.


----------



## RiverFenix

DoN II doesn't have a main event yet. It's not where the event can sell itself. Yet. I mean I'd trust AEW to deliver given it's one of four a year so all the PPV's are going to be stacked, but main event could still be dodgy. I mean if Mox wins at Revolution who does he face? And no matter who he faces he's going to retain. It's why I would have saved Bucks vs Hangman/Omega title match - have that main event with all that build up. 

Hangman/Page probably lose at Revolution though to get them both back into the singles scene. So you'll have the Bucks first PPV title defense at DoN II, so they're not going to lose it either. And who do they face. Ortiz/Santana is too done, as is Bucks vs Lucha Brothers. Will Dash be out of WWE by then? If they hotshotted Revival vs Bucks that would be Main Event caliber.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> That's a lot of words to say "I screwed up but it's your fault because you can't read minds."
> 
> ?
> 
> Anyway. Analogy aside. There is not much AEW can emulate in WWE that can help them become number one, or even "sell as much as possible", whatever the heck that means. WWE is in that spot after the success of years of being a smarter and much more competitive company that navigated the particulars of THEIR market 20+ years ago, and are currently in a tenuous situation because of mismanagement. Maybe AEW can get some structural pointers or look to the past, but if you suggest they should look at the promotional strategy and, God forbid (I hope you don't mean this), the product of today for growth? Please.
> 
> WWE's tactics aren't even working for WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> So a company should spend billions of dollars on rights, content, and a new digital streaming service because that's what's Disney's doing. This literal example been done on a smaller scale and flopped hard. Marvel's strategy of long form expanded universes was attempted by everyone from WB to Universal. Nothing worked. That's because Disney owns 38% of the total market and many beloved franchises and a creative management team that had a unique vision for their properties.
> 
> On the surface what you say makes sense, but underneath it's ridiculous.


No, it's a lot of words to say "you're deliberately being obtuse to try and start an argument that everyone else can see is absolute bullshit." If anyone is confused by what I said to the point that they _need_ the word "possible" in there, which I highly doubt, then I have cleared that up AND smacked down your frivolous points, just like me always do. 

Ugh, the rest of what you've said is just tedious. Honestly, I can read most people on here and get the points, but you are just so goddamn boring. I don't mean that as a flame, but do you often find that people just stop talking to you? It's not because of your intellect, mate -- you need to write with more punch. Your work is impenetrable. 

_No one_ was arguing anything about what you've rattled on about. Aren't you the guy that claims to have hyper-focus? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on that. Another liar, although I think I've already revealed you to be a liar (I might need to keep a list of all the exposed liars). This may be your second reveal.

I'm just going to reiterate: AEW can learn a lot from WWE if they want to sell the most burgers.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> No, it's a lot of words to say "you're deliberately being obtuse to try and start an argument that everyone else can see is absolute bullshit." If anyone is confused by what I said to the point that they _need_ the word "possible" in there, which I highly doubt, then I have cleared that up AND smacked down your frivolous points, just like me always do.
> 
> Ugh, the rest of what you've said is just tedious. Honestly, I can read most people on here and get the points, but you are just so goddamn boring. I don't mean that as a flame, but do you often find that people just stop talking to you? It's not because of your intellect, mate -- you need to write with more punch. Your work is impenetrable.
> 
> _No one_ was arguing anything about what you've rattled on about. Aren't you the guy that claims to have hyper-focus? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on that. Another liar, although I think I've already revealed you to be a liar (I might need to keep a list of all the exposed liars). This may be your second reveal.
> 
> I'm just going to reiterate: AEW can learn a lot from WWE if they want to sell the most burgers.


You know what. I got too much stuff to do and if I reply to this bait I'll just be robbing myself of time I cannot get back.


----------



## validreasoning

Pippen94 said:


> Greater Chicago, New York, LA & Dallas have huge populations - it makes sense aew running places like these more often as chances for large crowds greater.


Sure but you can also burn out market running too many shows. TNA were very successful when they ran NYC first time, still successful enough second time but 3rd and 4th time they drew far less fans. NJPW saw similar in LA area, first two shows immediate sellouts, third show way down.

In wrestling today fans will buy tickets if they feel show is going to be special (Summerslam, rumble, mania, raw 25, SD 1000, SD debut on Fox, All In, DON 2019, AEW debut on TNT). After that it's how well you promote show will determine ticket sales.

WWE themselves have struggled to sell tickets in NYC at times. In 93 they had to move out of Manhattan center because crowds were dwindling, in 94 they had 4,500 in MSG for a houseshow and in October 2004 they had 7,000 in MSG for a Raw taping. Over-running market among other things contributed to the problems.

WWE themselves have a list of cities they consider best drawing: Anaheim, CA, Atlanta, GA, Baltimore, MD, Boston, MA, Bridgeport, CT, Brooklyn, NY, Buffalo, NY, Chicago, IL, Cincinnati, OH, Columbus, OH - Schottenstein Center, Dallas, TX, Denver, CO, Detroit, MI, Hartford, CT, Hildalgo, TX, Houston, TX, Jackson, MS, Kansas City, MO, Los Angeles, CA, Miami, FL, Minneapolis, MN, Nashville, TN, New York, NY, Newark, NJ, Philadelphia, PA, Phoenix, AZ, Pittsburgh, PA, Portland, OR, Providence, RI, San Antonio, TX, San Jose, CA - SAP Center, St. Louis, MO, Tampa, FL, Toronto, ON - Air Canada Centre, Toronto, ON - Ricoh Coliseum, Washington, DC, White Plains, NY, Wildwood, NJ


----------



## rbl85

Atlanta is doing really bad in the tickets sale.

Only around 6K tickets are or were put in sale.


----------



## DOTL

I wonder, what makes some cities sell more than others?


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Atlanta is doing really bad in the tickets sale.
> 
> Only around 6K tickets are or were put in sale.


And the arena holds 20K - man, that's going to look ugly. Card is pretty damn good as well - only thing missing is Jericho isn't booked in any capacity. Of course he'll be there, but I think they needed to have him booked to be doing something. 

Is 6000 the lower bowl maybe tarping the upper level completely and then limiting camera angles and the such.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> And the arena holds 20K - man, that's going to look ugly. Card is pretty damn good as well - only thing missing is Jericho isn't booked in any capacity. Of course he'll be there, but I think they needed to have him booked to be doing something.
> 
> Is 6000 the lower bowl maybe tarping the upper level completely and then limiting camera angles and the such.


The set up is strange because the easiest section to sell never was open and in some sections you have some grey areas.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> And the arena holds 20K - man, that's going to look ugly. Card is pretty damn good as well - only thing missing is Jericho isn't booked in any capacity. Of course he'll be there, but I think they needed to have him booked to be doing something.
> 
> Is 6000 the lower bowl maybe tarping the upper level completely and then limiting camera angles and the such.


Lower bowl will probably end up full, they have the camera side upper deck for sale but hardly any have sold thus far.

Not sure why they didn't go with the McCamish Pavilion (like probably 7k set up for end stage set) instead of the State Farm Arena. Or even the GSU Sports Arena (capacity in the 4ks).

Would look so much better in either of those.


----------



## rbl85

Also stop saying the arena hold 20K....a wrestling show never sold an entire arena.

Here with the set up they have, they would have sold at much 10K tickets.


----------



## RiverFenix

TKO Wrestling said:


> Lower bowl will probably end up full, they have the camera side upper deck for sale but hardly any have sold thus far.
> 
> Not sure why they didn't go with the McCamish Pavilion (like probably 7k set up for end stage set) instead of the State Farm Arena. Or even the GSU Sports Arena (capacity in the 4ks).
> 
> Would look so much better in either of those.


Not that it would matter much, but those others probably couldn't have a cage match. Cody said one prerequsite for any cage match in AEW would it have to be lowerable from the roof. I mean Cody vs Wardlow wouldn't have to be a cage match if they booked a smaller venue.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Not that it would matter much, but those others probably couldn't have a cage match. Cody said one prerequsite for any cage match in AEW would it have to be lowerable from the roof. I mean Cody vs Wardlow wouldn't have to be a cage match if they booked a smaller venue.


 Bingo. Definitely couldn't do that at the GSU Sports Arena. Someone, maybe RBL, said awhile back that Georgia Tech doesnt allow their arena to be used for wrestling.


----------



## DOTL

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Not that it would matter much, but those others probably couldn't have a cage match. Cody said one prerequsite for any cage match in AEW would it have to be lowerable from the roof. I mean Cody vs Wardlow wouldn't have to be a cage match if they booked a smaller venue.


I understand the practicalities, but that seems limiting.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Atlanta is doing really bad in the tickets sale.
> 
> Only around 6K tickets are or were put in sale.


6K is probably max they should have expected. These southern markets seem to be tough sells for wrestling these days. Anything above 6K would have to be LA, Chicago or NY/NJ area. With every where else in the 3-5k range for most Dynamites going forward. Even in places like Boston and Philly that sold out before.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They should just double down on Atlanta and paper the house

get 10k students in there for free - they’ll make some cash back on merch and the goodwill will be amazing

having 6k in a 20k seater won’t be great


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They should just double down on Atlanta and paper the house
> 
> get 10k students in there for free - they’ll make some cash back on merch and the goodwill will be amazing
> 
> *having 6k in a 20k seater won’t be great*


Will you stop with the 20K thing ?

There is not 20K seats available even if the show sell out. XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Will you stop with the 20K thing ?
> 
> There is not 20K seats available even if the show sell out. XD


this is the first time i’ve ever mentioned 20k seats ?‍♂


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is the first time i’ve ever mentioned 20k seats ?‍♂


It was an overall "you"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> It was an overall "you"


?


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> ?


What is that thing ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Not sure why AEW doesn’t try a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Ticket Promotion. Or better yet an all you can drink Beer ticket combo.


----------



## DOTL

TKO Wrestling said:


> Not sure why AEW doesn’t try a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Ticket Promotion. Or better yet an all you can drink Beer ticket combo.


I know they don't do house shows, but why don't they book the occasional unaired event? Maybe connect it to a local thing, like a fair or a concert. Stuff like the Cruise.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You know what. I got too much stuff to do and if I reply to this bait I'll just be robbing myself of time I cannot get back.


Yeah, right -- my points are bait, whereas you trying to nitpick the wording of what I say even when the meaning is evident isn't. You've been exposed again, DOLT.



DOTL said:


> I wonder, what makes some cities sell more than others?


Because some cities have a higher population of wrestling geeks than others. It's not really that complicated. Towns like Chicago and Las Vegas are easy to travel to, so the mobilized fan-base, which isn't that big, can travel to them. They aren't travelling to Bumfuck, Alabama for a show, and the people down that way like their wrestling a certain way (good). 



imthegame19 said:


> 6K is probably max they should have expected. *These southern markets seem to be tough sells for wrestling these days.* Anything above 6K would have to be LA, Chicago or NY/NJ area. With every where else in the 3-5k range for most Dynamites going forward. Even in places like Boston and Philly that sold out before.


*Tough sells for bad wrestling. AEW are rolling through doing all these "tributes" to Memphis wrestling, etc. It ain't paying tribute to put on a haphazard show that makes little sense with a bunch of wrestlers that don't know how to immerse a general audience. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> They should just double down on Atlanta and paper the house
> 
> get 10k students in there for free - they’ll make some cash back on merch and the goodwill will be amazing
> 
> having 6k in a 20k seater won’t be great


This worked really well for WCW towards the end. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Not sure why AEW doesn’t try a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Ticket Promotion. Or better yet an all you can drink Beer ticket combo.


Because they want to make money. 



DOTL said:


> I know they don't do house shows, but why don't they book the occasional unaired event? Maybe connect it to a local thing, like a fair or a concert. Stuff like the Cruise.


You mean a house show? Fuck's sake.


----------



## Chairshot620

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> And the arena holds 20K - man, that's going to look ugly. Card is pretty damn good as well - only thing missing is Jericho isn't booked in any capacity. Of course he'll be there, but I think they needed to have him booked to be doing something.
> 
> Is 6000 the lower bowl maybe tarping the upper level completely and then limiting camera angles and the such.


I don’t know about the setup, but last time WWE ran State Farm Arena in Dallas for a Smackdown, they drew just 6,000 as well WWE SmackDown Live #1048 « Events Database « CAGEMATCH - The Internet Wrestling Database




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Yeah, right -- my points are bait, whereas you trying to nitpick the wording of what I say even when the meaning is evident isn't. You've been exposed again, DOLT.


Summary: I respond to what was written as written, you say I didn't comprehend what you wrote, when pressed, you quickly concede that my interpretation was valid yet predictably blame me for the ambiguity anyway. When I keep the record straight, you call it "nitpicking" and start your tired "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" routine complete with bluster and a whole lot of nothing designed to get an emotional response. You know. Bait.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Lower bowl will probably end up full, they have the camera side upper deck for sale but hardly any have sold thus far.
> 
> Not sure why they didn't go with the McCamish Pavilion (like probably 7k set up for end stage set) instead of the State Farm Arena. Or even the GSU Sports Arena (capacity in the 4ks).
> 
> Would look so much better in either of those.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206619999437090816
Because Cody wanted to be prophetic and prove that he's a draw.


----------



## bdon

Cody can go suck a fuck.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Dynamite will be at the MGM grand the Wednesday after Dynamite, it'll be interesting how that sells, not like people can just stick around in Vegas 4 days after DoN to go to Dynamite as well, so they'll be drawing from the local crowd.


----------



## RiverFenix

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Dynamite will be at the MGM grand the Wednesday after Dynamite, it'll be interesting how that sells, not like people can just stick around in Vegas 4 days after DoN to go to Dynamite as well, so they'll be drawing from the local crowd.


And with no Starrcast there already seems to be less travelling for the stand alone DoN II - so DoN will likely cater to a more local base as well. I'd guess a Cali venue fell through so they're doubling up Vegas.


----------



## MOXL3Y

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Dynamite will be at the MGM grand the Wednesday after Dynamite, it'll be interesting how that sells, not like people can just stick around in Vegas 4 days after DoN to go to Dynamite as well, so they'll be drawing from the local crowd.


ehhhhh I mean I usually do Vegas 4-5 days at a time so it seems logical to me...


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Gross. AEW can't draw a big crowd twice in Vegas. WWE can't even do that. GROSS


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> Not sure why AEW doesn’t try a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Ticket Promotion. *Or better yet an all you can drink Beer ticket combo.*


I don't think you can really do that at an arena, at least of that size. Concession sales are a big deal for an arena. AEW would have to spend more money than it's worth. The 2 for 1 would be good


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TKO Wrestling said:


> Gross. AEW can't draw a big crowd twice in Vegas. WWE can't even do that. GROSS


Not sure if Sarcasm, but DoN will end up being a packed house or near to it, given they've already sold 8-9k tickets and it's setup for like 11k, the Dynamite will be interesting, but I imagine they've got some sort of deal worked out with MGM to run the building twice so it's an easy profit, especially because the crew will already be there.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Not sure if Sarcasm, but DoN will end up being a packed house or near to it, given they've already sold 8-9k tickets and it's setup for like 11k, the Dynamite will be interesting, but I imagine they've got some sort of deal worked out with MGM to run the building twice so it's an easy profit, especially because the crew will already be there.


No sir, not being sarcastic. I have no doubt DoN2 will sell out but I am worried how you are going to get enough in there again on Wednesday to look good on TV.

Really don't understand the logic, I get it with Wrestlemania because its 70k plus people flying in from all over converting over to a 15-20k arena the NEXT night for Raw.

But I don't see how they get the MGM full twice in 5 days.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TKO Wrestling said:


> No sir, not being sarcastic. I have no doubt DoN2 will sell out but I am worried how you are going to get enough in there again on Wednesday to look good on TV.
> 
> Really don't understand the logic, I get it with Wrestlemania because its 70k plus people flying in from all over converting over to a 15-20k arena the NEXT night for Raw.
> 
> But I don't see how they get the MGM full twice in 5 days.


Even if it's not full, I think they can manage 6k, that's what they did in the Sears Center for Dynamite after the Chicago market got obliterated by WWE for Survivor Series weekend. Some people will decide to stay for Dynamite on Wednesday as well, so if some people stay, and they do decent with the local crowd, I think it'll be fine.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Even if it's not full, I think they can manage 6k, that's what they did in the Sears Center for Dynamite after the Chicago market got obliterated by WWE for Survivor Series weekend. Some people will decide to stay for Dynamite on Wednesday as well, so if some people stay, and they do decent with the local crowd, I think it'll be fine.


I hope so! I was in Austin this week for the AEW show and it was LIT. That kind of crowd is what makes AEW so badass!!!


----------



## The Masked Avenger

I think that they announced it with enough time for people to adjust their plans to stay for Dynamite as well if they choose to do so. It's not a last minute thing.


----------



## Jonhern

DOTL said:


> I wonder, what makes some cities sell more than others?


My theory, some places just have more wrestling fans due to historical trends. Most wrestling fans are fans because someone in thier family or friend got them into it. It kind of gets passed down it seems and areas with a long history of wrestling in the market continue to be the strongest markets to this day because of that. If your dad, uncle and brother watched you are more likely to watch yourself and so are your kids.


----------



## DOTL

Jonhern said:


> My theory, some places just have more wrestling fans due to historical trends. Most wrestling fans are fans because someone in thier family or friend got them into it. It kind of gets passed down it seems and areas with a long history of wrestling in the market continue to be the strongest markets to this day because of that. If your dad, uncle and brother watched you are more likely to watch yourself and so are your kids.


That makes the most sense. And if that's true, then it explains why wrestling doesn't seem to have as big a reach as it did. An entire generation of children grew up with only one televised brand. It was probably easier for them not to inherit an interest because there was only one company catering to one vision.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Summary: I respond to what was written as written, you say I didn't comprehend what you wrote, when pressed, you quickly concede that my interpretation was valid yet predictably blame me for the ambiguity anyway. When I keep the record straight, you call it "nitpicking" and start your tired "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" routine complete with bluster and a whole lot of nothing designed to get an emotional response. You know. Bait.


You could interpret it that way, then go and seek out further meaning and apply context/get the author’s clarification. There is no way you exist in the real word.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DOTL said:


> That makes the most sense. And if that's true, then it explains why wrestling doesn't seem to have as big a reach as it did. An entire generation of children grew up with only one televised brand. It was probably easier for them not to inherit an interest because there was only one company catering to one vision.


Thats exactly what people will never understand. I went to Austin last week for the show and took my 12, 8, and 6 year olds with me. They had an absolute blast and they all watch around an hour or so of AEW with me a week. They are a sample size of what should be an entire generation of future paying fans that grew up knowing WWE AND AEW, not just WWE. It could literally take AEW 10 years to gain legit traction as kids grow into viewing, paying customers.

It is a huge hurdle. It has never been done before. NWA became WCW and had generations of fans coming with it. TNA couldn't grow past a certain point fast enough to sustain their financial mismanagement. AEW appears to have great financial people running it so if they can make it to 2030 and after then they can really show legitimate growth. But to expect AEW to have 2 million viewers between now and then is absurd considering Stone Cold will never wrestle again/jump, The Rock will never jump, and John Cena will never jump.

Other than those 3, no one else moves the needle enough to get them the instant recognition that fans want. It will take atleast a decade.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> You could interpret it that way, then go and seek out further meaning and apply context/get the author’s clarification. There is no way you exist in the real word.


*If what I'm about to say gets me another ban, then you guys have totally lost control of these message boards. Before you do that, please, indulge me with a few minutes of your time to explain. I'm going to point out what is fairly obvious around here, yet somehow goes unnoticed. And just as an FYI, it's not just me that has these same views. Some choose to react and reply, which gets them banned. Some choose to throw their hands in the air and give up. Some are even offended and dismayed, so they choose to say their peace and move on. With that said...*

Regardless of what this user says, or has his own opinion on, why do you have to be such an elitist prick, berating, belittling and besmirching almost everyone, in every thread, all the time?! Yes, serious question. We're talking about wrestling (well that's what we're trying to do until you become involved). We're not figuring out how to re-build the Notre-Dame Cathedral, or how the UK was able to succeed from the EU, or trying to find the secret recipe to KFC chicken, or Coca-Cola, no Wood. It's just wrestling. We're also not here, searching out the most underused word from the Oxford Dictionary to use, or flipping through the pages of Harvard Law history, no Wood. It's just wrestling.

Your "holier than thou" approach to everything you disagree with, is truly nauseating. I am beyond baffled, as to what type of hypnotic magic-spell you have over the Mods/Admins, to continuously act this way and not even be slapped on the hand, about your condescending and baiting behavior towards other users. I really don't.

You can't stop. You won't stop.
They can't stop you. They won't stop you.

So please... proceed with your infinite wisdom, superior comprehension and writing skills, beautifully colored charts and graphs, a glossary of words no one uses and last, but certainly, not least, facts.


----------



## rbl85

Amen


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> *If what I'm about to say gets me another ban, then you guys have totally lost control of these message boards. Before you do that, please, indulge me with a few minutes of your time to explain. I'm going to point out what is fairly obvious around here, yet somehow goes unnoticed. And just as an FYI, it's not just me that has these same views. Some choose to react and reply, which gets them banned. Some choose to throw their hands in the air and give up. Some are even offended and dismayed, so they choose to say their peace and move on. With that said...*
> 
> Regardless of what this user says, or has his own opinion on, why do you have to be such an elitist prick, berating, belittling and besmirching almost everyone, in every thread, all the time?! Yes, serious question. We're talking about wrestling (well that's what we're trying to do until you become involved). We're not figuring out how to re-build the Notre-Dame Cathedral, or how the UK was able to succeed from the EU, or trying to find the secret recipe to KFC chicken, or Coca-Cola, no Wood. It's just wrestling. We're also not here, searching out the most underused word from the Oxford Dictionary to use, or flipping through the pages of Harvard Law history, no Wood. It's just wrestling.
> 
> Your "holier than thou" approach to everything you disagree with, is truly nauseating. I am beyond baffled, as to what type of hypnotic magic-spell you have over the Mods/Admins, to continuously act this way and not even be slapped on the hand, about your condescending and baiting behavior towards other users. I really don't.
> 
> You can't stop. You won't stop.
> They can't stop you. They won't stop you.
> 
> So please... proceed with your infinite wisdom, superior comprehension and writing skills, beautifully colored charts and graphs, a glossary of words no one uses and last, but certainly, not least, facts.


You called us trolls for months when we were trying to have a conversation about AEW. Now you get all sad when someone belittles you. You already attempted to have our opinions thrown out when you called us trolls. YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You could interpret it that way, then go and seek out further meaning and apply context/get the author’s clarification. There is no way you exist in the real word.


You’re not a baby. I assume you’re a grown man. It’s your job to make sure what you say matches what’s in your head. At the first sign of misunderstanding you could have had some humility and clarified your own words, but instead you decide to make this about the other guy. (Still trying.) For such a grand genius it’s amazing you don’t realize that type of stuff discourages further engagement.

For all that big talk you certainly like to pass the buck a lot.


----------



## bdon

DOTL said:


> You’re not a baby. I assume you’re a grown man. It’s your job to make sure what you say matches what’s in your head. At the first sign of misunderstanding you could have had some humility and clarified your own words, but instead you decide to make this about the other guy. (Still trying.) For such a grand genius it’s amazing you don’t realize that type of stuff discourages further engagement.
> 
> For all that big talk you certainly like to pass the buck a lot.


For someone who loves to breakdown what people say, line by line, @The Wood , this isn’t a good look for you. You “just love to talk pro wrestling”, and you’re almost always very well versed and articulate about the thought you’re trying to convey.

You admitted you weren’t as clear and concise on your thoughts in that particular instance. The mature response is to laugh at one’s self and apologize, admit error, and go about your business.

Yet as he said, you made it about the other poster, claiming he/she (going out on a redwood tree trunk-sized limb and assuming a he with this being a _wrestling_ forum) should just automatically presume to know what you meant to say. You claim to not believe him capable of existing “in the real world”, but bro, I’ve been on the forum long enough that I don’t assume I have to sift through your thoughts and choose which require me to read what you mean word for word and which you are leaving open for my interpretation.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Garty got clapped, our boy got obsessed lmao


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Garty got clapped, our boy got obsessed lmao


He’s been obsessed.


----------



## 10pmStalker

Any word on the Dynamite Las Vegas pre sale code?


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> *If what I'm about to say gets me another ban, then you guys have totally lost control of these message boards. Before you do that, please, indulge me with a few minutes of your time to explain. I'm going to point out what is fairly obvious around here, yet somehow goes unnoticed. And just as an FYI, it's not just me that has these same views. Some choose to react and reply, which gets them banned. Some choose to throw their hands in the air and give up. Some are even offended and dismayed, so they choose to say their peace and move on. With that said...*
> 
> Regardless of what this user says, or has his own opinion on, why do you have to be such an elitist prick, berating, belittling and besmirching almost everyone, in every thread, all the time?! Yes, serious question. We're talking about wrestling (well that's what we're trying to do until you become involved). We're not figuring out how to re-build the Notre-Dame Cathedral, or how the UK was able to succeed from the EU, or trying to find the secret recipe to KFC chicken, or Coca-Cola, no Wood. It's just wrestling. We're also not here, searching out the most underused word from the Oxford Dictionary to use, or flipping through the pages of Harvard Law history, no Wood. It's just wrestling.
> 
> Your "holier than thou" approach to everything you disagree with, is truly nauseating. I am beyond baffled, as to what type of hypnotic magic-spell you have over the Mods/Admins, to continuously act this way and not even be slapped on the hand, about your condescending and baiting behavior towards other users. I really don't.
> 
> You can't stop. You won't stop.
> They can't stop you. They won't stop you.
> 
> So please... proceed with your infinite wisdom, superior comprehension and writing skills, beautifully colored charts and graphs, a glossary of words no one uses and last, but certainly, not least, facts.


Direct language is not belittling.



DOTL said:


> You’re not a baby. I assume you’re a grown man. It’s your job to make sure what you say matches what’s in your head. At the first sign of misunderstanding you could have had some humility and clarified your own words, but instead you decide to make this about the other guy. (Still trying.) For such a grand genius it’s amazing you don’t realize that type of stuff discourages further engagement.
> 
> For all that big talk you certainly like to pass the buck a lot.


You cannot read. We have figures of speech in English. It is pretty clear what I meant in my post and I cleared it up. You obsessing over it _is_ being a baby. 



bdon said:


> For someone who loves to breakdown what people say, line by line, @The Wood , this isn’t a good look for you. You “just love to talk pro wrestling”, and you’re almost always very well versed and articulate about the thought you’re trying to convey.
> 
> You admitted you weren’t as clear and concise on your thoughts in that particular instance. The mature response is to laugh at one’s self and apologize, admit error, and go about your business.
> 
> Yet as he said, you made it about the other poster, claiming he/she (going out on a redwood tree trunk-sized limb and assuming a he with this being a _wrestling_ forum) should just automatically presume to know what you meant to say. You claim to not believe him capable of existing “in the real world”, but bro, I’ve been on the forum long enough that I don’t assume I have to sift through your thoughts and choose which require me to read what you mean word for word and which you are leaving open for my interpretation.


I like to break down points. I don't break down semantics, grammatical errors or assume that things have to be interpreted the way I have. When people have cleared up what they meant with me, I have said "Whoops, sorry, my bad." I said I can see why someone would take most to mean "the most burgers EVER IN HISTORY!". I cleared that up, but upon further reflection, it actually _isn't_ that hard to get. I was being too courteous. Does anyone else take what I said I to mean that AEW should copy the market leader exactly? No. Yet this is the discussion DOLT is trying to force me down. I won't let him play that game. It's thuggish. 

I am going about my business. I apologized for any of the ambiguity (which I don't think is really there). I will again repeat: If AEW wish to sell the most burgers, they should look at the market leader.


----------



## bdon

Well, IMO, the way you upset the market leader isn’t by stealing their ideas or copying their recipe. IMO, the only way you sell the most of anything when facing the daunting task of going head-on with an established market leader, you do so with a completely different product.

WalMart and local business. Amazon and actual stores. Bitcoin and banks.

Not that I think AEW is doing anything earth shatteringly different. That’s what UFC going mainstream did to wrestling.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You cannot read. We have figures of speech in English. It is pretty clear what I meant in my post and I cleared it up. You obsessing over it _is_ being a baby.


There we go again. “You can’t read/I screwed up the sentence.” You’re still trying to make this my fault. And that’s what I have an issue with.



> I said I can see why someone would take most to mean "the most burgers EVER IN HISTORY!".


See, now you’re just lying to make what I thought you said seem less reasonable. You and I both know I thought you meant “become market leader” when you said look to McDonald’s to “sell the most burgers.”

This is my first response before you claimed I didn’t comprehend what you wrote.



DOTL said:


> You didn’t say “do well.” You said become the market leader. Those are different things entirely. AEW is already doing well.


Your reply to this is you acknowledging that's what I thought you meant, and admitting the interpretation was valid.


The Wood said:


> No I didn't. I said if their goal is to sell the most burgers (this could be taken to be either the market leader or just the most possible), or carve out their own niche. You've just made this fucking up.


Neither of us thought I meant "sell the most burgers ever in history.”

For such a grand genius of the highest order it sure is taking you a while to realize there’s a record of this “conversation.”



bdon said:


> Well, IMO, the way you upset the market leader isn’t by stealing their ideas or copying their recipe. IMO, the only way you sell the most of anything when facing the daunting task of going head-on with an established market leader, you do so with a completely different product.
> 
> WalMart and local business. Amazon and actual stores. Bitcoin and banks.
> 
> Not that I think AEW is doing anything earth shatteringly different. That’s what UFC going mainstream did to wrestling.


This was my original point before I got distracted. Most market leaders became the market leader by presenting the market with something new or produced things in a new way.

Look at video games. Nintendo created the d-pad. Sony was the first to use disc tech at a reasonable price. Both of those companies vacillate between being on top.

WWE broke ranks with the territories and their(albeit dwindling) market presence is partially the result of that. It put them in a position to leverage Hogan and Austin nationally.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Well, IMO, the way you upset the market leader isn’t by stealing their ideas or copying their recipe. IMO, the only way you sell the most of anything when facing the daunting task of going head-on with an established market leader, you do so with a completely different product.
> 
> WalMart and local business. Amazon and actual stores. Bitcoin and banks.
> 
> Not that I think AEW is doing anything earth shatteringly different. That’s what UFC going mainstream did to wrestling.


No one ever suggested you steal their recipe. If anything, a criticism I’ve seen of AEW is that their recipe is too similar, which we agree on. But you can’t work out what is different if you don’t onownwhat



DOTL said:


> There we go again. “You can’t read/I screwed up the sentence.” You’re still trying to make this my fault. And that’s what I have an issue with.
> 
> 
> See, now you’re just lying to make what I thought you said seem less reasonable. You and I both know I thought you meant “become market leader” when you said look to McDonald’s to “sell the most burgers.”
> 
> This is my first response before you claimed I didn’t comprehend what you wrote.
> 
> 
> Your reply to this is you acknowledging that's what I thought you meant, and admitting the interpretation was valid.
> 
> 
> Neither of us thought I meant "sell the most burgers ever in history.”
> 
> For such a grand genius of the highest order it sure is taking you a while to realize there’s a record of this “conversation.”
> 
> 
> This was my original point before I got distracted. Most market leaders became the market leader by presenting the market with something new or produced things in a new way.
> 
> Look at video games. Nintendo created the d-pad. Sony was the first to use disc tech at a reasonable price. Both of those companies vacillate between being on top.
> 
> WWE broke ranks with the territories and their(albeit dwindling) market presence is partially the result of that. It put them in a position to leverage Hogan and Austin nationally.


No, your issue is with me, and that is my issue. It’s very clear what I meant. By the way, it’s you that thinks of me as a genius of the highest order. I’ve never claimed that. Also, so much for “hyper-focus,” with you getting distracted all over the place.


----------



## MrThortan

AEW is going up against Survivor in the first hour and the Democratic debate the second hour. Not sure how much crossover there is with those two shows. Personally, I will be streaming both AEW and the debate if my hillbilly internet can hold up. Would love for AEW to break a million, but I anticipate they will likely be around 800k again.


----------



## bdon

MrThortan said:


> AEW is going up against Survivor in the first hour and the Democratic debate the second hour. Not sure how much crossover there is with those two shows. Personally, I will be streaming both AEW and the debate if my hillbilly internet can hold up. Would love for AEW to break a million, but I anticipate they will likely be around 800k again.


Kind of what I’m expecting as well.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Great. A good member gets banned while this antagonistic fuckwit keeps spamming his nonsensical idiocy all over this forum. What utter fucking bullshit.


----------



## rbl85

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Great. A good member gets banned while this antagonistic fuckwit keeps spamming his nonsensical idiocy all over this forum. What utter fucking bullshit.



This x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


----------



## rbl85

And some people are wondering why less and less people are on this forum….


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Great. A good member gets banned while this antagonistic fuckwit keeps spamming his nonsensical idiocy all over this forum. What utter fucking bullshit.


Yep, like RBL said, that’s why this forum is dying and everyone is talking AEW on Twitter instead.

The mods here stink.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep, like RBL said, that’s why this forum is dying and everyone is talking AEW on Twitter instead.
> 
> The mods here stink.


Join AEWs discord


----------



## Bosnian21

Who got banned?


----------



## captainzombie

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep, like RBL said, that’s why this forum is dying and everyone is talking AEW on Twitter instead.
> 
> The mods here stink.


Yup that is true. I've reported several of the offenders and nobody does a thing which is quite amusing. They'd rather ban the good people than those that are causing the issues.


----------



## Cult03

captainzombie said:


> Yup that is true. I've reported several of the offenders and nobody does a thing which is quite amusing. They'd rather ban the good people than those that are causing the issues.


Probably because you're confusing trolls with people who have criticisms, but keep running with that victim mentality you guys love. We are all fans here. I just want something a bit better. Also Kahn and The Elite have been listening to the criticisms and the show is getting better each week. I'm excited for this weeks episode! I'll see you in the relevant thread


----------



## RiverFenix

Use the ignore function and quit engaging - it's quite simple.


----------



## Jonhern

Looks like the middle section was sold which is odd since the map made it look like no seats would be there. Maybe those are the vip seats that they sell?


----------



## kingfrass44

Great show 
million again


----------



## shandcraig

Never seen a camera directly above the ring,that was a cool angle


----------



## Cult03

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Use the ignore function and quit engaging - it's quite simple.


Or debate their points like adults


----------



## DOTL

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Great. A good member gets banned while this antagonistic fuckwit keeps spamming his nonsensical idiocy all over this forum. What utter fucking bullshit.


I tried to have a normal discussion with the dude. Turned into a mess. Should’ve known better.


----------



## Roxinius

rbl85 said:


> And some people are wondering why less and less people are on this forum….


between the shitty redo of the site and the awful mods this site has nosedived hard


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’m more on twitter now than here TBH

its also a cesspool there though. The most ‘positive‘ and ‘fair’ place is the AEW discord so far.

then again, on here I have so many people on ignore, including the wooden fucknut and his 10 Aussie aliases like Cult03, it is actually a pleasure sometimes


----------



## fabi1982

EDIT: wrong thread..Expecting 2m with such a good Cody 

EDIT 2: and everyone being upset with Garty gone, THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"  But honestly, like Cult said, trolls getting kicked and with his last thread he showed that and thats about it. And everyone now even more using "bad language", just converse or discuss, but just being rude does nothing to a forum besides getting yourself banned as well.


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Great. A good member gets banned while this antagonistic fuckwit keeps spamming his nonsensical idiocy all over this forum. What utter fucking bullshit.


Garty was not a good member. He made threads that targeted individual posters and speculated on their mental state (this is wildly inappropriate). He became obsessed with myself and the idea that AEW could receive any criticism. He would call out the mods in every second post for not banning people he didn't like, even if they obeyed the rules and contributed to discussion. He started a thread called "Let's call a spade a spade" that were irrelevant criticisms about NXT (against the forum rules) and when it was explained to him why they were not relevant, he started insulting people and calling them trolls. 



rbl85 said:


> And some people are wondering why less and less people are on this forum….


It can't be because wrestling is in a fucking hole, can it? Go around everywhere and tell me one place where wrestling discussion is "hotter." 



captainzombie said:


> Yup that is true. I've reported several of the offenders and nobody does a thing which is quite amusing. They'd rather ban the good people than those that are causing the issues.


What issues? Is it an issue that people don't post the same opinion as you? What did you report people for? Was it for something against the rules, or was it just because you didn't like someone's tone? 



shandcraig said:


> Never seen a camera directly above the ring,that was a cool angle


The Wile E. Coyote cam was a staple of WWF/E Ladder Matches during the Attitude era. 

On to the topic: I'm curious to see what their rating is this week, since last week was purportedly a good show. This will be a good indicator as to whether or not that word of mouth is relevant or even spreads.


----------



## Cult03

fabi1982 said:


> EDIT: wrong thread..Expecting 2m with such a good Cody
> 
> EDIT 2: and everyone being upset with Garty gone, THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"  But honestly, like Cult said, trolls getting kicked and with his last thread he showed that and thats about it. And everyone now even more using "bad language", just converse or discuss, but just being rude does nothing to a forum besides getting yourself banned as well.


And little do these people who have me on ignore know, now that AEW has been putting on pretty good shows I have had plenty of good things to say about them. How many times does someone have to brag about having someone on ignore before it gets weird though @LifeInCattleClass?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah, finally - i figured to top comments should come from somebody who enjoys the show.

now that this everest has been climbed, my wrestlingforum life feels complete


----------



## The Wood

Why do they need to be from someone who enjoys the show? Why can't it be from someone that enjoys some of their stuff but is critical of other things? It would seem like they have more to say.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, finally - i figured to top comments should come from somebody who enjoys the show.
> 
> now that this everest has been climbed, my wrestlingforum life feels complete
> 
> View attachment 82952


Yoooo! Top 3!!! Wooooooooo!!!


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

fabi1982 said:


> EDIT: wrong thread..Expecting 2m with such a good Cody
> 
> EDIT 2: and everyone being upset with Garty gone, THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"  But honestly, like Cult said, trolls getting kicked and with his last thread he showed that and thats about it. And everyone now even more using "bad language", just converse or discuss, but just being rude does nothing to a forum besides getting yourself banned as well.


How about AEW FANS just wanting to be able to discuss what we like about AEW without you people jumping into every conversation (yes, that includes YOU) having nothing to contribute other than shitting on everything about the company and it’s fans. I guess that’s too much to ask.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

oops, dup.


----------



## Ger

In germany you can book _AEW Revolution_ for 16EU on _Sky_.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Yoooo! Top 3!!! Wooooooooo!!!


Whooooo!

we have to eliminate all your anti-Cody posts though   - top10 then


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> How about AEW FANS just wanting to be able to discuss what we like about AEW without you people jumping into every conversation (yes, that includes YOU) having nothing to contribute other than shitting on everything about the company and it’s fans. I guess that’s too much to ask.


i can‘t see who you‘re talking to Reg - but I have a feeling I’ll agree here 100% with you


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ger said:


> In germany you can book _AEW Revolution_ for 16EU on _Sky_.


i read an article Sky DE is stopping to show any WWE and not carrying PPVs -only AEW now

is this true?


----------



## fabi1982

Reggie Dunlop said:


> How about AEW FANS just wanting to be able to discuss what we like about AEW without you people jumping into every conversation (yes, that includes YOU) having nothing to contribute other than shitting on everything about the company and it’s fans. I guess that’s too much to ask.


What you describing is not a discussion, thats dont want any other opinion than your biased own one. This is what forums are made for, discussing and WE discuss because we see the not so good things in AEW. Like Cult said you more like ignore our positives and just bash on our negative approch. Like Smarty and Lifasalittleprincess always said „ignore“ us, if not you HAVE to live with other opinions, otherwise its a bubble and thats not the point of a forum. Then use your discord and cream your pants about spotlight hogging Cody or mediocre wrestlers being GREAT. But you cant close down other opinions on a forum. Easy as that


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i read an article Sky DE is stopping to show any WWE and not carrying PPVs -only AEW now
> 
> is this true?


that's crazy. Genuinely shocked to hear this.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I just looked it up and in their press release, Sky have actually said RAW and SD is declining in quality.

AEW really out here doing big things.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> that's crazy. Genuinely shocked to hear this.


Let me try and find the article - i’m sure i read this


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

fabi1982 said:


> What you describing is not a discussion, thats dont want any other opinion than your biased own one. This is what forums are made for, discussing and WE discuss because we see the not so good things in AEW. Like Cult said you more like ignore our positives and just bash on our negative approch. Like Smarty and Lifasalittleprincess always said „ignore“ us, if not you HAVE to live with other opinions, otherwise its a bubble and thats not the point of a forum. Then use your discord and cream your pants about spotlight hogging Cody or mediocre wrestlers being GREAT. But you cant close down other opinions on a forum. Easy as that


Don’t come around with that ignoring your positives horseshit.There’s a bunch of you people who have way the fuck more negatives to say than positives, and you all know who you are. And you feel compelled to inject those negatives in every fucking discussion. That’s not discussion, either — that’s just being a narcissistic ass. and there’s a whole bunch of us who are sick of hearing your nonstop crap. It’s not that we don’t want to hear different opinions, we‘re just sick of hearing your bitching in every fucking thread over and over and over.

Now guess where you’re going. Say hi to the rest of your malcontent friends.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Let me try and find the article - i’m sure i read this


you're right. 

here is the official press release: Sky Deutschland und die WWE gehen getrennte Wege

Here is the google translation:

Sky Deutschland and the WWE wrestling series will no longer work together. The current contract expires at the end of March. Sky Deutschland stated that it had not continued the cooperation because the important pay-per-view events that would bring the great stories within the shows to the top and also to the end were no longer separately advertised for Germany - and could not be acquired at all. As a result, only the weekly shows “Raw” and “Smackdown” were available for the period from April - in fan circles these two have recently been criticized more and more because of declining quality. 

Sky said to Oddsmeter.de: "The broadcast rights to the WWE's pay-per-view events were no longer part of the tender and were therefore no longer available for Sky Germany. As a result, WWE will no longer be part of Sky Deutschland's program offering from the end of March. ”Sky customers will not have to do without wrestling in the future either. The expansion of the new, emerging wrestling league AEW is to be expanded. It has existed since last year. It is owned by billionaire Shahid Khan and his son Tony. He also owns Fulham FC and the Jacksonville Jaguars in the NFL, and with $ 8 billion in assets, he's trusted to give the new league time and resources to grow. The currently best known name there is probably Chris Jericho, who was one of the top stars of the WWE for a long time. 


The “AEW Dynamite” show runs weekly on the Sky platform on TNT series (Fridays, 9:50 pm). What is new is that Sky will also offer the AEW Pay Per Views via the Sky Select service. According to Sky, these are to be made available "shortly". The Sky Group recently made headlines in connection with the WWE in Great Britain - after around 30 years of partnership with Sky, martial arts switched to the smaller pay TV provider BT Sports at the turn of the year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> you're right.
> 
> here is the official press release: Sky Deutschland und die WWE gehen getrennte Wege
> 
> Here is the google translation:
> 
> Sky Deutschland and the WWE wrestling series will no longer work together. The current contract expires at the end of March. Sky Deutschland stated that it had not continued the cooperation because the important pay-per-view events that would bring the great stories within the shows to the top and also to the end were no longer separately advertised for Germany - and could not be acquired at all. As a result, only the weekly shows “Raw” and “Smackdown” were available for the period from April - in fan circles these two have recently been criticized more and more because of declining quality.
> 
> Sky said to Oddsmeter.de: "The broadcast rights to the WWE's pay-per-view events were no longer part of the tender and were therefore no longer available for Sky Germany. As a result, WWE will no longer be part of Sky Deutschland's program offering from the end of March. ”Sky customers will not have to do without wrestling in the future either. The expansion of the new, emerging wrestling league AEW is to be expanded. It has existed since last year. It is owned by billionaire Shahid Khan and his son Tony. He also owns Fulham FC and the Jacksonville Jaguars in the NFL, and with $ 8 billion in assets, he's trusted to give the new league time and resources to grow. The currently best known name there is probably Chris Jericho, who was one of the top stars of the WWE for a long time.
> 
> 
> The “AEW Dynamite” show runs weekly on the Sky platform on TNT series (Fridays, 9:50 pm). What is new is that Sky will also offer the AEW Pay Per Views via the Sky Select service. According to Sky, these are to be made available "shortly". The Sky Group recently made headlines in connection with the WWE in Great Britain - after around 30 years of partnership with Sky, martial arts switched to the smaller pay TV provider BT Sports at the turn of the year.


yeah - thats the one.

this is actually huge news. DE is their 2nd biggest international market if i remember correct - which is why they didn’t want to do FITE there

now we know why


----------



## fabi1982

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Don’t come around with that ignoring your positives horseshit.There’s a bunch of you people who have way the fuck more negatives to say than positives, and you all know who you are. And you feel compelled to inject those negatives in every fucking discussion. That’s not discussion, either — that’s just being a narcissistic ass. and there’s a whole bunch of us who are sick of hearing your nonstop crap. It’s not that we don’t want to hear different opinions, we‘re just sick of hearing your bitching in every fucking thread over and over and over.
> 
> Now guess where you’re going. Say hi to the rest of your malcontent friends.


See it is that easy. 

And maybe just check your language the next time, others have suffered and were banned already, you want to go that route as well? And why you say you want to hear a different opinion but then you say you dont want to hear it? Because what is a different opinion to something positive? Oh yeah, something negative. So this doesnt make much sense. And you are right, AEW is more negative than positive for me, but hey I still watch because I like the positive. And you cant tell me to stop pointing out the negative. Just because you cant argue with "us" (because all you do is using neckbeard/poor language) you cant tell us not to say these things. And thanks for putting me on ignore, because now I dont have to be insulted by your poor language skills anymore, at least towards me


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> that's crazy. Genuinely shocked to hear this.


Why? Why actually would anyone want to pay more than the 9.99 (looking at my bank account it is something around 12€ for me) for a PPV when you already have to pay for Sky in the first place and even if not I get the network for 12€ and had to pay more for one PPV? With the network it was just a matter of time until Sky booted it, they just didnt have anything to replace until AEW came along. So nothing surprising for me here and no one in Germany actually was watching it on Sky or buying PPVs on Sky after the network came along.

And especially after they got booted in UK this was just a matter of time in Germany.

EDIT: and here use Google translate:

_„Die WWE hat sich entschieden, die Übertragungsrechte an den Pay-per-View-Veranstaltungen nicht mehr in die Ausschreibung der Medienrechte für den deutschen Markt mit aufzunehmen. In Folge dessen wird die WWE ab Ende März nicht mehr Teil des Programmangebots von Sky Deutschland sein.“ _ 

It basically says that WWE didnt give the opportunity anymore to sign up for a new rights deal. So WWE decided to kick Sky out, not the other way.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop




----------



## RainmakerV2

900k is a reasonable expectation.


----------



## Y2K23

Just an outstanding show all around. Hopefully the ratings reflect it


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

750k for NXT for the PPV bump and Charlotte stuff, 870k for AEW. Both will be hurt by democratic debate.

For what it's worth, interest in AEW was actually down from last week based on google trends, but that usually isn't indicative of TV ratings, rather PPV buys, but nonetheless, interesting.


----------



## Ger

optikk sucks said:


> you're right.
> 
> here is the official press release: Sky Deutschland und die WWE gehen getrennte Wege
> 
> Here is the google translation:
> 
> Sky Deutschland and the WWE wrestling series will no longer work together. The current contract expires at the end of March. Sky Deutschland stated that it had not continued the cooperation because the important pay-per-view events that would bring the great stories within the shows to the top and also to the end were no longer separately advertised for Germany - and could not be acquired at all. As a result, only the weekly shows “Raw” and “Smackdown” were available for the period from April - in fan circles these two have recently been criticized more and more because of declining quality.


Sorry, but the deal didn`t broke because the lack of quality or something in RAW and SD. Meanwhile SD is on free TV one day earlier and therefore accessible for free at the earliest possible moment (for normal people) anyway. Serious people in germany don`t watch SD live until the early morning (2am), so the next possible date is the evening of the same day. (ah sorry, I forgot a very few people willing to pay around 20EU a month, just to see the cut out jobber segment or Maverick talking with Dana Brooke).
Therefore SD became less attractive on Sky. The prices are insane anyway. 

And the PPVs are the reason why Vince rethinks WWE network at the moment. Why the heck should you buy one PPV for 16 to 20EU on Sky, if you can have two PPVs for half the price on the WWE network? Just install the WWE app on your SmartTV and you got it.


----------



## RiverFenix

I expect the same rating as last week. I think audiences are pretty baked in at this point.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Just saw that the debate did 20 million viewers, that's around the level the World Series did and AEW TANKED for that, I think hitting 800k would actually be pretty good tbh.


----------



## Jonhern

Wednesday Ratings (2/19/2020): AEW .31 Demo (5th) and 893k /NXT .25 Demo (16th) and 794k


----------



## RiverFenix

Best chance for AEW to break 1M any time soon is probably late May when other television shows are into reruns and they're building for Double or Nothing II, either the go-home on May 20th or the show after on May 27th.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## RainmakerV2

Meh. Thats pretty good for both shows with the debate.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW needs a buzzworthy Debut. Sucks. Seems like they should do something big like an angle or a debut, hyped matches rarely deliver the ratings in volume.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Best chance for AEW to break 1M any time soon is probably late May when other television shows are into reruns and they're building for Double or Nothing II, either the go-home on May 20th or the show after on May 27th.


The show after Full Gear had a pretty good bump so i would not be surprised if the show after revolution do more than 1M (if there is not big competitions like the past 2 weeks)


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW needs a buzzworthy Debut. Sucks. Seems like they should do something big like an angle or a debut, hyped matches rarely deliver the ratings in volume.


Big debut are not reallu that good for the rating of the show when the debut happen because nobody is really expecting the "big debut"

But last night show would have probably done between 950K and 1M without the debate.


----------



## bdon

Basically 1.7 million said Wednesday is THE wrestling night. I love it!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Basically 1.7 million said Wednesday is THE wrestling night. I love it!


fantastic in all honesty. If this creeps up to 2 million, Wednesday is doing RAW/SD levels.


What i'm especially loving is the consistency shown. Consistency is key. Growth will follow.


----------



## shandcraig

I dont fuss or focus much on ratings but what peeps are saying is this week they did 1.7 ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

shandcraig said:


> I dont fuss or focus much on ratings but what peeps are saying is this week they did 1.7 ?


AEW and NXT combined was watched by 1.7 million people.

That's impressive.


----------



## Bosnian21

Great rating considering the debate drew 20 million viewers at its peak. Hopefully AEW can hit 1 million soon.


----------



## Jazminator

ITEM: The Democratic Debate ranked No. 1 in Wednesday viewership.
ME: "That's a good thing. I'm glad people care about the future of our country!"

ITEM: Real Housewives of New Jersey ranked No. 4.
ME:


----------



## Dark Emperor

Same range as usual. 775k to 925k or so. I'm not sure why people are so optimistic about hitting 1m soon, they haven't done it since week 3.

There is no uptrend so unless something big happens then expect more of the same.


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> Thats exactly what people will never understand. I went to Austin last week for the show and took my 12, 8, and 6 year olds with me. They had an absolute blast and they all watch around an hour or so of AEW with me a week. They are a sample size of what should be an entire generation of future paying fans that grew up knowing WWE AND AEW, not just WWE. It could literally take AEW 10 years to gain legit traction as kids grow into viewing, paying customers.
> 
> It is a huge hurdle. It has never been done before. NWA became WCW and had generations of fans coming with it. TNA couldn't grow past a certain point fast enough to sustain their financial mismanagement. AEW appears to have great financial people running it so if they can make it to 2030 and after then they can really show legitimate growth. But to expect AEW to have 2 million viewers between now and then is absurd considering Stone Cold will never wrestle again/jump, The Rock will never jump, and John Cena will never jump.
> 
> Other than those 3, no one else moves the needle enough to get them the instant recognition that fans want. It will take atleast a decade.





Dark Emperor said:


> Same range as usual. 775k to 925k or so. I'm not sure why people are so optimistic about hitting 1m soon, they haven't done it since week 3.
> 
> There is no uptrend so unless something big happens then expect more of the same.


Doing 900 so not that far off


----------



## Cult03

Reggie Dunlop said:


> How about AEW FANS just wanting to be able to discuss what we like about AEW without you people jumping into every conversation (yes, that includes YOU) having nothing to contribute *other than shitting on everything about the company and it’s fans*. I guess that’s too much to ask.


That very rarely happens


----------



## Cult03

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Don’t come around with that ignoring your positives horseshit.There’s a bunch of you people who have way the fuck more negatives to say than positives, and you all know who you are. And you feel compelled to inject those negatives in every fucking discussion. That’s not discussion, either — that’s just being a narcissistic ass. and there’s a whole bunch of us who are sick of hearing your nonstop crap. It’s not that we don’t want to hear different opinions, we‘re just sick of hearing your bitching in every fucking thread over and over and over.
> 
> Now guess where you’re going. Say hi to the rest of your malcontent friends.


Nah, the conversations we've had proves you want this to be an echo chamber. The haters have been way more positive recently, because AEW have been fixing the things we complained about. You're welcome


----------



## Cult03

IamMark said:


> View attachment 82964


This isn't an insult to AEW (Because I know some of you will take it that way because that's just what you do) but why can't they beat Real Housewives? Is it that popular in America that people just have to watch it?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jazminator said:


> ITEM: The Democratic Debate ranked No. 1 in Wednesday viewership.
> ME: "That's a good thing. I'm glad people care about the future of our country!"
> 
> ITEM: Real Housewives of New Jersey ranked No. 4.
> ME:


Nothing wrong with that at all. We are on a forum currently discussing a bunch of grown men and women pretend to hate each other and fake fight. We have no right to criticise others viewing behaviours.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cult03 said:


> Nah, the conversations we've had proves you want this to be an echo chamber. The haters have been way more positive recently, because AEW have been fixing the things we complained about. You're welcome


Hell man, even I've been put on a few ignore lists, and I've generally praised the product more than I've "bashed" it, especially lately. I was never going to come out of a years long hiatus from wrestling just to make excuses for the same kind of shit that drove me away to begin with.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> This isn't an insult to AEW (Because I know some of you will take it that way because that's just what you do) but why can't they beat Real Housewives? Is it that popular in America that people just have to watch it?


I mean it’s pretty clear on that table. The show is for women and that’s who they draw. AEW does not cater for women.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> How about AEW FANS just wanting to be able to discuss what we like about AEW without you people jumping into every conversation (yes, that includes YOU) having nothing to contribute other than shitting on everything about the company and it’s fans. I guess that’s too much to ask.


How about people share their views no matter what they are? Why should people be forced into the paradigm you want them to be in? 



optikk sucks said:


> I just looked it up and in their press release, Sky have actually said RAW and SD is declining in quality.
> 
> AEW really out here doing big things.


Sky are pretty blatantly open about WWE dropping them and not vice versa. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Don’t come around with that ignoring your positives horseshit.There’s a bunch of you people who have way the fuck more negatives to say than positives, and you all know who you are. And you feel compelled to inject those negatives in every fucking discussion. That’s not discussion, either — that’s just being a narcissistic ass. and there’s a whole bunch of us who are sick of hearing your nonstop crap. It’s not that we don’t want to hear different opinions, we‘re just sick of hearing your bitching in every fucking thread over and over and over.
> 
> Now guess where you’re going. Say hi to the rest of your malcontent friends.


Even if there were more negatives than positives -- who cares? Maybe they shouldn't put out a product that their potential fan-base doesn't like? 



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.


Next week would be a great chance for WWE to load up NXT. I honestly don't know what they have scheduled, but this would be a great time to do a sneaky Daniel Bryan appearance to bounce back from his loss to Cole months ago. That can factor into the story. Cole can lose on his own turf, which can lead to a massive beat-down on Bryan by the Undisputed Era which brings out Ciampa and some babyfaces for a eight-man tag the next week. Cole losing might seem silly, but it can be part of his "longest reigning champ, but everyone is gunning" story. Have Ric Flair advertised as having words for Rhea Ripley and do the debut of Scarlett Bordeaux and Killer Kross and you've got yourself a win on this night.


----------



## imthegame19

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.



I expect a promos and long segments to hype the ppv. Like you know Jericho/Moxley weigh in his gonna be some big thing. While Cody/MJF will probably be doing promos. With Darby, Hager or Dustin coming out at end of the six man tag. Not to mention something to set up more tension between Hangman Page and Young Bucks.


It's the type of show they shouldn't have a lot of strong matches and show focus on ppv build. Especially with 30 minute Iron Match taking up chunk of the show already. Doing those tag matches will give audience some wrestling and you can keep the matches short. I'd add one woman's match to set up ppv match and only do four matches.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> How about people share their views no matter what they are? Why should people be forced into the paradigm you want them to be in?
> 
> 
> 
> Sky are pretty blatantly open about WWE dropping them and not vice versa.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if there were more negatives than positives -- who cares? Maybe they shouldn't put out a product that their potential fan-base doesn't like?
> 
> 
> 
> *Next week would be a great chance for WWE to load up NXT. I honestly don't know what they have scheduled, but this would be a great time to do a sneaky Daniel Bryan appearance to bounce back from his loss to Cole months ago. That can factor into the story. Cole can lose on his own turf, which can lead to a massive beat-down on Bryan by the Undisputed Era which brings out Ciampa and some babyfaces for a eight-man tag the next week. Cole losing might seem silly, but it can be part of his "longest reigning champ, but everyone is gunning" story. Have Ric Flair advertised as having words for Rhea Ripley and do the debut of Scarlett Bordeaux and Killer Kross and you've got yourself a win on this night.*


I can literally hear the minute you cream your pants.

It is funny listening to you talk NXT. You couldn’t be more excited about a possible win.


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> Hell man, even I've been put on a few ignore lists, and I've generally praised the product more than I've "bashed" it, especially lately. I was never going to come out of a years long hiatus from wrestling just to make excuses for the same kind of shit that drove me away to begin with.


I wouldn't put someone like you on ignore and others shouldn't either. I might disagree with some of your opinions. But you clearly want the show to be good and rooting for AEW to be really good and successful. Some of the others I put on ignore. Clearly aren't fans of AEW and have agenda of negativity towards AEW. For me those people who come on here just to trash AEW or spin things in negative way are just losers and I have no time for that.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

There is no war. It is obvious no matter which brand "wins" the week it is by ~125k. In ratings terms that is miniscule at best. This will only turn into a war IF either brand can get to a point where the viewership is double that of the competition. That is when things begin to shift and change and become altered. Until then it seems to be just the same 1.5-1.7 million viewers each Wednesday enjoying a fine wrestling evening.


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> This isn't an insult to AEW (Because I know some of you will take it that way because that's just what you do) but why can't they beat Real Housewives? Is it that popular in America that people just have to watch it?


Fuck yeah it's one of the biggest shows amongst women. The Housewives shows and Love and Hip Hop are wrestling for women essentially. It's a bunch of drama and fighting between folk with big personalities.


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> I wouldn't put someone like you on ignore and others shouldn't either. I might disagree with some of your opinions. But you clearly want the show to be good and rooting for AEW to be really good and successful. Some of the others I put on ignore. Clearly aren't fans of AEW and have agenda of negativity towards AEW. For me those people who come on here just to trash AEW or spin things in negative way are just losers and I have no time for that.


Oooh who?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I can literally hear the minute you cream your pants.
> 
> It is funny listening to you talk NXT. You couldn’t be more excited about a possible win.


Well, you're making up your own narrative there, but feel free to conjure stories of me cumming if it makes you moist. 



imthegame19 said:


> I wouldn't put someone like you on ignore and others shouldn't either. I might disagree with some of your opinions. But you clearly want the show to be good and rooting for AEW to be really good and successful. Some of the others I put on ignore. Clearly aren't fans of AEW and have agenda of negativity towards AEW. For me those people who come on here just to trash AEW or spin things in negative way are just losers and I have no time for that.


Alright, but even this is a little wonky: 

* Why does someone _need_ to be a fan of AEW? Why can't someone just be a fan of wrestling and come in and talk about it, why they don't like AEW right now, why they think it's bad for wrestling, etc? Should all criticism of films be based around wanting to be a fan of every movie? Can't a general fan of film provide criticism of movies they don't particularly like?

* I get accused of spin a lot, so I assume this is aimed at me, because I haven't seen it happen with anyone else, but again...what spin? Just because people look at things and see a rabbit when you see a duck doesn't mean that the duck or the rabbit is correct. Why is it so important to you that everyone sees a duck? 



Bloody Warpath said:


> There is no war. It is obvious no matter which brand "wins" the week it is by ~125k. In ratings terms that is miniscule at best. This will only turn into a war IF either brand can get to a point where the viewership is double that of the competition. That is when things begin to shift and change and become altered. Until then it seems to be just the same 1.5-1.7 million viewers each Wednesday enjoying a fine wrestling evening.


Bingo. This 100%.


----------



## K4L318

I see clown is still trying to get a shitty NXT over on the AEW thread.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.


Yep, exactly what I thought. Horrible card. Sucks cause AEW has been putting out classics.


----------



## validreasoning

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.


Nxt aren't doing anything big on tv these days at all.

Charlotte answered challenge at Takeover when they could have dragged it out on TV for weeks and have a reason for people to watch the tv show.

Just compare the Lee/Dijack, nox/Kai or tag title match at Takeover Portland and those matches on TV (Dusty classic tournament). Quality, intensity etc was like night and day. It's looks like they are working half pace for tv.


Bloody Warpath said:


> There is no war. It is obvious no matter which brand "wins" the week it is by ~125k. In ratings terms that is miniscule at best. This will only turn into a war IF either brand can get to a point where the viewership is double that of the competition. That is when things begin to shift and change and become altered. Until then it seems to be just the same 1.5-1.7 million viewers each Wednesday enjoying a fine wrestling evening.


It's not a war because it's not a war.

It's two pro wrestling shows with different audiences watching and no underhanded tactics being employed.

We aren't going to get Monday night war again. Turner and Vince hated each other and the whole WCW vs WWF thing went way back to 1963 NWA split an then obviously taken to new level in 84 and later the ppv battle of late 80s.

I see nothing to suggest HHH and Cody/Tony Khan hate each other. They have taken a few swipes but it's more in jest.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep, exactly what I thought. Horrible card. Sucks cause AEW has been putting out classics.


To be fair, the last time AEW put out a 'horrible' card on a Dynamite show, it was one of their best ever shows.


----------



## taker1986

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW looking to give NXT a win next week it seems. Announced BBB vs Best Friends and Sammy/Ortiz/Santana vs Jurassic Express (yes Marko Stunt too). PAC vs Omega wasn't really pushed much last night either.


That's an underwhelming card for a go home show tbh. Omega/PAC should be great though.


----------



## fabi1982

For me whats most interesting here is to see that NXT beat AEW in the young women demo. I just remember at the start that AEW especially dominated NXT in that demo. Any idea why women and especially young women dont watch AEW anymore? Shouldnt this be more of a key demo for them?


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep, exactly what I thought. Horrible card. Sucks cause AEW has been putting out classics.


The fact that it's the go home show is enough.


----------



## taker1986

The Wood said:


> Next week would be a great chance for WWE to load up NXT. I honestly don't know what they have scheduled, but this would be a great time to do a sneaky Daniel Bryan appearance to bounce back from his loss to Cole months ago. That can factor into the story. Cole can lose on his own turf, which can lead to a massive beat-down on Bryan by the Undisputed Era which brings out Ciampa and some babyfaces for a eight-man tag the next week. Cole losing might seem silly, but it can be part of his "longest reigning champ, but everyone is gunning" story. Have Ric Flair advertised as having words for Rhea Ripley and do the debut of Scarlett Bordeaux and Killer Kross and you've got yourself a win on this night.


Personally I've been more invested in AEW, however NXT would easily win the ratings battles if they loaded up on NXT. The road to WM is the perfect time to do that. They could Have 

1. Becky come out and have a face off with Shayna. 

2. Have Ric advertised like you suggested to add heat to Charlotte/Rhea

3. Keith Lee/Lesnar was teased at the Rumble advertise a Brock appearance, have them face off and have a match next week for ratings the following week. Drew can be in Keith's corner. 

4. Who the hells the IC and US champ these days? Make one of them defend the title at WM in an 8 man ladder match involving 2 or 3 NXT guys. That will create lots of potential for matches involving Raw and SD guys coming to NXT. Like Gargano/Nakamura, Balor/Black or Almas/Ciampa. 

5. Have Bryan or even Roman come down and challenge Cole. 

6. Either the Raw or SD tag championships can get defended in a 4 team match or a guantlet match involving Riddle and Dunn. Send down the USOS or the new day to have tag team matches in NXT. 

That's several weeks of TV that could be written between now and WM that would beat AEW on viewers if WWE pulled the trigger. That's just off the top of my head, the possibilities are endless.


----------



## Pippen94

taker1986 said:


> Personally I've been more invested in AEW, however NXT would easily win the ratings battles if they loaded up on NXT. The road to WM is the perfect time to do that. They could Have
> 
> 1. Becky come out and have a face off with Shayna.
> 
> 2. Have Ric advertised like you suggested to add heat to Charlotte/Rhea
> 
> 3. Keith Lee/Lesnar was teased at the Rumble advertise a Brock appearance, have them face off and have a match next week for ratings the following week. Drew can be in Keith's corner.
> 
> 4. Who the hells the IC and US champ these days? Make one of them defend the title at WM in an 8 man ladder match involving 2 or 3 NXT guys. That will create lots of potential for matches involving Raw and SD guys coming to NXT. Like Gargano/Nakamura, Balor/Black or Almas/Ciampa.
> 
> 5. Have Bryan or even Roman come down and challenge Cole.
> 
> 6. Either the Raw or SD tag championships can get defended in a 4 team match or a guantlet match involving Riddle and Dunn. Send down the USOS or the new day to have tag team matches in NXT.
> 
> That's several weeks of TV that could be written between now and WM that would beat AEW on viewers if WWE pulled the trigger. That's just off the top of my head, the possibilities are endless.


They did that & ratings dropped afterwards - it's a marathon not sprint


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> For me whats most interesting here is to see that NXT beat AEW in the young women demo. I just remember at the start that AEW especially dominated NXT in that demo. Any idea why women and especially young women dont watch AEW anymore? Shouldnt this be more of a key demo for them?


Women more prominent on nxt including headlining TV main events - that doesn't happen on aew.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Women more prominent on nxt including headlining TV main events - that doesn't happen on aew.


Yeah I know that, but I remember the first weeks of ratings AEW dominated NXT especially in the womens demo. Isnt that the wrong way they go now, especially thinking advertising is mostly successful in the womens stuff sector? I could be wrong, but I was impressed that NXT as nearly double the young women demo as AEW. AEW also grows in the old people demo, which is also changing compared to the first couple of weeks.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah I know that, but I remember the *first weeks of ratings AEW dominated NXT especially in the womens demo*. Isnt that the wrong way they go now, especially thinking advertising is mostly successful in the womens stuff sector? I could be wrong, but I was impressed that NXT as nearly double the young women demo as AEW. AEW also grows in the old people demo, which is also changing compared to the first couple of weeks.


Only the 2 first weeks but since then NXT always did better with the women than AEW.

For me it's logic and normal that AEW is having some trouble with the women demos when you see their women division.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Only the 2 first weeks but since then NXT always did better with the women than AEW.
> 
> For me it's logic and normal that AEW is having some trouble with the women demos when you see their women division.


They’re doing about the same in the female 18-49 demo. This week both scored 0.18


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Only the 2 first weeks but since then NXT always did better with the women than AEW.
> 
> For me it's logic and normal that AEW is having some trouble with the women demos when you see their women division.


Not really. Women dont care if its men or women wrestling there is just a kind of shows and wrestlers that appeals to women. Guess aew doesnt do that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> Not really. Women dont care if its men or women wrestling there is just a kind of shows and wrestlers that appeals to women. Guess aew doesnt do that.


Yeah if you look at culture right now, women enjoy the reality shows, drama, relationships and cat fights etc. For example in England - Love Island

I mean if you think about it, not much has changed since attitude era, apart from maybe women not needing to wear almost next to nothing. Its actually the men that need to wear almost next to nothing.


----------



## bdon

taker1986 said:


> Personally I've been more invested in AEW, however NXT would easily win the ratings battles if they loaded up on NXT. The road to WM is the perfect time to do that. They could Have
> 
> 1. Becky come out and have a face off with Shayna.
> 
> 2. Have Ric advertised like you suggested to add heat to Charlotte/Rhea
> 
> 3. Keith Lee/Lesnar was teased at the Rumble advertise a Brock appearance, have them face off and have a match next week for ratings the following week. Drew can be in Keith's corner.
> 
> 4. Who the hells the IC and US champ these days? Make one of them defend the title at WM in an 8 man ladder match involving 2 or 3 NXT guys. That will create lots of potential for matches involving Raw and SD guys coming to NXT. Like Gargano/Nakamura, Balor/Black or Almas/Ciampa.
> 
> 5. Have Bryan or even Roman come down and challenge Cole.
> 
> 6. Either the Raw or SD tag championships can get defended in a 4 team match or a guantlet match involving Riddle and Dunn. Send down the USOS or the new day to have tag team matches in NXT.
> 
> That's several weeks of TV that could be written between now and WM that would beat AEW on viewers if WWE pulled the trigger. That's just off the top of my head, the possibilities are endless.


There is an NXT forum for you to circle jerk yourselves. I don’t watch that show, and I don’t want to hear or have to read about it either.


----------



## sideon

People blaming a debate and a singing show on the rating is hilarious, it's time to accept that this is what it's going to be on Wednesday night and this "war" isn't even a blimp on the radar.


optikk sucks said:


> fantastic in all honesty. If this creeps up to 2 million, Wednesday is doing RAW/SD levels.
> 
> 
> What i'm especially loving is the consistency shown. Consistency is key. Growth will follow.


Do you hear yourself? Hoping that two shows combined can one day achieve the same ratings as a single show is exactly why these ratings are laughable.


----------



## IamMark

Cult03 said:


> This isn't an insult to AEW (Because I know some of you will take it that way because that's just what you do) but why can't they beat Real Housewives? Is it that popular in America that people just have to watch it?


It's like women's new soap opera where they think all the drama going in there is real.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The last time NXT did a major "destination" episode of TV was December 18th, that was a stacked show with Balor/Cole for the NXT title, and Bayzler/Ripley for the Women's title. That show did 795k viewers. AEW did a horrendous 683k that night.

The fact AEW did 897k with a less stacked show, and against stronger wrestling competition(NXT at 790k) than NXT did on December 18th I think is a relatively good sign. 

Interestingly, both the December 18th shows, as well as the show from Wednesday faced strong competition from politics, impeachment coverage on the 18th, and the debate on 2/19.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

sideon said:


> People blaming a debate and a singing show on the rating is hilarious, it's time to accept that this is what it's going to be on Wednesday night and this "war" isn't even a blimp on the radar.
> 
> Do you hear yourself? Hoping that two shows combined can one day achieve the same ratings as a single show is exactly why these ratings are laughable.


You keep the same energy IRL?

It's no wonder why this place has gone to shit.


----------



## taker1986

bdon said:


> There is an NXT forum for you to circle jerk yourselves. I don’t watch that show, and I don’t want to hear or have to read about it either.


LOL no I don't watch NXT either. I'm just explaining how they would beat AEW in the ratings if they stepped things up and turned on the gas. 

AEW have done great with what they have, and are assembling a very good roster and developing characters that I'm interested in like MJF and Allin, plus with Jericho alone they have more star power than NXT, although they don't have more star power than WWE as a whole, that's just a fact.


----------



## MOXL3Y

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah if you look at culture right now, women enjoy the reality shows, drama, relationships and cat fights etc. For example in England - Love Island
> 
> I mean if you think about it, not much has changed since attitude era, apart from maybe women not needing to wear almost next to nothing. Its actually the men that need to wear almost next to nothing.


Yup, the Bachelor is the show currently hogging a lot of their attention here in the States


----------



## The Wood

Women don’t necessarily want to see women wrestle. In a lot of performance fields, women prefer to see men perform. There are socially conservative reasons for this (conditioning, social pressures) as well as progressive ones (feminism, exploitation awareness). Women’s wrestling is probably not the reason NXT does better with women, if that is the case, although their women’s division is better and far closer to being “legit”.


----------



## Claro De Luna

The Wood said:


> Women don’t necessarily want to see women wrestle. In a lot of performance fields, women prefer to see men perform. There are socially conservative reasons for this (conditioning, social pressures) as well as progressive ones (feminism, exploitation awareness). Women’s wrestling is probably not the reason NXT does better with women, if that is the case, although their women’s division is better and far closer to being “legit”.


How would you know what women want lol. Have you ever been with one?


----------



## The Wood

Claro De Luna said:


> How would you know what women want lol. Have you ever been with one?


Yeah. I not only fucked your sister but made her jealous by having a threesome with your mum and her friend. I thought about adding your girlfriend to my list, but didn’t want to lower my standards that far.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Yeah. I not only fucked your sister but made her jealous by having a threesome with your mum and her friend. I thought about adding your girlfriend to my list, but didn’t want to lower my standards that far.


Coming from the shoe laces!!

SLAP!!!


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Yeah. I not only fucked your sister but made her jealous by having a threesome with your mum and her friend. I thought about adding your girlfriend to my list, but didn’t want to lower my standards that far.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

K4L318 said:


> ya on this board too much to know anything bout chicks. Ya probably a virgin.


Delete this. 

letsbring back positive vibes to this board now ☮


----------



## Clique

optikk sucks said:


> Delete this.
> 
> letsbring back positive vibes to this board now ☮


*I advise y'all do this and let's have more civil debates. *


----------



## DaSlacker

Anybody else feel they made a bit of misstep deciding on four PPV's per year? I mean, with TV rights being the revenue machine and the PPV market both crowded and weakened via the WWE's $9.99 approach. All Out and Double or Nothing are fine - wrestling always needs its Starrcade/GAB/blowoff shows. But on paper Revolution and Full Gear are very generic and TNA like, even if the cards look super good.

From Oct 2019 through to summer 2020, all emphasis should have been on Dynamite and nothing else, imo. Cody vs Jericho, Moxley vs Jericho, the payoff to MJF/cody could have pushed that viewership back past the 1 million mark.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DaSlacker said:


> Anybody else feel they made a bit of misstep deciding on four PPV's per year? I mean, with TV rights being the revenue machine and the PPV market both crowded and weakened via the WWE's $9.99 approach. All Out and Double or Nothing are fine - wrestling always needs its Starrcade/GAB/blowoff shows. But on paper Revolution and Full Gear are very generic and TNA like, even if the cards look super good.
> 
> From Oct 2019 through to summer 2020, all emphasis should have been on Dynamite and nothing else, imo. Cody vs Jericho, Moxley vs Jericho, the payoff to MJF/cody could have pushed that viewership back past the 1 million mark.


Ive thought that a lot also.


----------



## K4L318

Clique said:


> *I advise y'all do this and let's have more civil debates. *


I deleted mine but dat guy been getting away too much on this board. We been civil, he come in to be negative every post, check his posts. Its multiple people who tolerate him.


----------



## Roxinius

K4L318 said:


> I deleted mine but dat guy been getting away too much on this board. We been civil, he come in to be negative every post, check his posts. Its multiple people who tolerate him.


i only keep him off ignore to laugh at how incredibly stupid he is his attempts to spin any positive AEW has into a negative is hilarious


----------



## RiverFenix

WWE's going to be doing away with network PPV's really soon it sounds and ESPN will jack up the prices to be more in-line with UFC PPV's. Giving away PPV's as part of the network plan has failed, network likely lost money for wwe over traditional PPV model as it never caught on the numbers it would have needed and is bleeding subscribers now and all it did was cheapen the PPV's in the minds of fans. Once wwe goes back up to $50+ for PPV's via ESPN, AEW's four PPV's a year at that same price point won't be out of place.

I would like to see some Saturday Night TNT specials though rather than anymore than four PPV's from AEW. It is strange that television pays for the rights for the build-up shows and then misses out on the payoffs. It would be like television shows putting their season finale's on PPV. 

Have a couple PPV quality/build specials on TNT and see what the ratings would be and if it would make sense for AEW and TNT to have the "PPV's" on television. What ad rates could they get to off-set the loss of the 100,000 paying $50? How much of that PPV money goes to the PPV provider anyways vs how much does AEW make? What is AEW's cut?

Doing away with PPV's would be interesting - especially if WWE is going back to them. I mean your best shows are going to be PPV's and you're strategically keeping them away from potentially new fans by charging $50 to see your best product. 

NFL never made the Superbowl PPV, NHL, NBA, MLB, NCAA championships are not PPV. Season finales or even series finales are not PPV. Combat spots are but those are one-off events rather than storyline built or have long regular seasons and the like.


----------



## Roxinius

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE's going to be doing away with network PPV's really soon it sounds and ESPN will jack up the prices to be more in-line with UFC PPV's. Giving away PPV's as part of the network plan has failed, network likely lost money for wwe over traditional PPV model as it never caught on the numbers it would have needed and is bleeding subscribers now and all it did was cheapen the PPV's in the minds of fans. Once wwe goes back up to $50+ for PPV's via ESPN, AEW's four PPV's a year at that same price point won't be out of place.
> 
> I would like to see some Saturday Night TNT specials though rather than anymore than four PPV's from AEW. It is strange that television pays for the rights for the build-up shows and then misses out on the payoffs. It would be like television shows putting their season finale's on PPV.
> 
> Have a couple PPV quality/build specials on TNT and see what the ratings would be and if it would make sense for AEW and TNT to have the "PPV's" on television. What ad rates could they get to off-set the loss of the 100,000 paying $50? How much of that PPV money goes to the PPV provider anyways vs how much does AEW make? What is AEW's cut?
> 
> Doing away with PPV's would be interesting - especially if WWE is going back to them. I mean your best shows are going to be PPV's and you're strategically keeping them away from potentially new fans by charging $50 to see your best product.
> 
> NFL never made the Superbowl PPV, NHL, NBA, MLB, NCAA championships are not PPV. Season finales or even series finales are not PPV. Combat spots are but those are one-off events rather than storyline built or have long regular seasons and the like.


if they are hard switching to espn+ like the ufc did they are gonna find out real quick they arent gonna get buys


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Roxinius said:


> if they are hard switching to espn+ like the ufc did they are gonna find out real quick they arent gonna get buys


They’ll have to start promoting their PPVs again. It seems like a lost art and I welcome the return.


----------



## RainmakerV2

WWE cant really expect people to pay 50 bucks with some of these cards in 2020 can they? Like be real lol.


----------



## tducey

Yeah, 50 bucks is way to much to be paying for a PPV these days with all the streaming services available. I expect if they go off the network for PPVs they'll charge 25-30 dollars a PPV.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE's going to be doing away with network PPV's really soon it sounds and ESPN will jack up the prices to be more in-line with UFC PPV's. Giving away PPV's as part of the network plan has failed, network likely lost money for wwe over traditional PPV model as it never caught on the numbers it would have needed and is bleeding subscribers now and all it did was cheapen the PPV's in the minds of fans. Once wwe goes back up to $50+ for PPV's via ESPN, AEW's four PPV's a year at that same price point won't be out of place.
> 
> I would like to see some Saturday Night TNT specials though rather than anymore than four PPV's from AEW. It is strange that television pays for the rights for the build-up shows and then misses out on the payoffs. It would be like television shows putting their season finale's on PPV.
> 
> Have a couple PPV quality/build specials on TNT and see what the ratings would be and if it would make sense for AEW and TNT to have the "PPV's" on television. What ad rates could they get to off-set the loss of the 100,000 paying $50? How much of that PPV money goes to the PPV provider anyways vs how much does AEW make? What is AEW's cut?
> 
> Doing away with PPV's would be interesting - especially if WWE is going back to them. I mean your best shows are going to be PPV's and you're strategically keeping them away from potentially new fans by charging $50 to see your best product.
> 
> NFL never made the Superbowl PPV, NHL, NBA, MLB, NCAA championships are not PPV. Season finales or even series finales are not PPV. Combat spots are but those are one-off events rather than storyline built or have long regular seasons and the like.


You bring up some great points. Wrestling PPV really evolved out of the old way of doing business when it was more a touring company that used tv for promotion. With the advent of PPV they could essentially have more widely available house shows, as TV used to all be about pushing the house shows, then moved to push house shows and PPV. Back then they would either buy time or be in syndication, they weren't getting rights fees as they do now. 

The PPV market still survives for Wrestling, Boxing and MMA likely because of these sports being so niche. Although you could make the point its niche because its biggest events are not easy to consume like NFL and NBA. But is that really true of say WWE in the network age? $10 was and is not a significant entry point but they still remained niche during that time. 

As far as PPV cut they get, it's around 50%, half going to the cable company half to the promotor. So in AEW's case, it's around $2.5 million for each PPV around 100k buys. They could likely get that in advertising for a 3-hour special on TNT if they do slightly above their usual demo of around .3. However, even with that, they split the ad revenue with TNT anyway. I have been saying they should do the same as you have suggested with weekend specials on TNT between PPV, but I don't see them going away from PPV altogether. And there is the other part of this in that BR Live is something that Warner wants to push, and in this case, the network is getting a cut of the payoff so the idea that TV pays to push the PPV and not get anything in return is untrue is this case anyway.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

tducey said:


> Yeah, 50 bucks is way to much to be paying for a PPV these days with all the streaming services available. I expect if they go off the network for PPVs they'll charge 25-30 dollars a PPV.


Not really. Worth every penny for what AEW gives us. This isn't a normal PPV, AEWs and Takeovers are worth bigger money.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE cant really expect people to pay 50 bucks with some of these cards in 2020 can they? Like be real lol.


If they get a deal similar to the UFC it won't matter on WWE's end. The UFC got paid so much by ESPN that it doesn't really matter how much the average PPV sells on ESPN+ because the UFC already has the money up front. On ESPN's side it's just adding content and more reasons for people to look into the still growing ESPN+ platform. It also isn't insane to think they might give WWE a nice chunk of change when you consider that WWE has a bigger fan base than UFC as TV ratings show and that the WWE Network has more subscribers than the UFC fight pass. 

You got to also imagine that ESPN is smart enough to know they can't jump the $10 a month PPV price up $40.









With new ESPN+ PPV deal, UFC can afford to let Conor McGregor retire


With the recent announcement that ESPN+ would become the new exclusive home of UFC on PPV, can the UFC afford to walk way from Conor McGregor?




www.bloodyelbow.com







Roxinius said:


> if they are hard switching to espn+ like the ufc did they are gonna find out real quick they arent gonna get buys


They'll already have the money, it'll be on ESPN to promote the PPVs, not the WWE. If you watch MMA you know promoting for most PPVs is bare minimum. Also it's unlikely ESPN thinks they can up PPV prices but $40 and sell them


TKO Wrestling said:


> Not really. Worth every penny for what AEW gives us. This isn't a normal PPV, AEWs and Takeovers are worth bigger money.


I think that's more hardcore fan opinion than realism. AEW is certainly doing fine given its wrestling and they're new. But there's a reason nobody but hardcore wrestling friends are impressed with their PPV buys.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> I think that's more hardcore fan opinion than realism. AEW is certainly doing fine given its wrestling and they're new. But there's a reason nobody but hardcore wrestling friends are impressed with their PPV buys.


AEW publish their ppt buy rates? Send us a link pls


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Man 100,000 PPVs sold is awesome. Not sure what else would be wrong with that. It isnt a TNA situation where they are selling 7-15,000 PPVs, AEW is literally 7-10x's that. Running numbers over what WCW ran at the end and on par with WWE B PPVs at the end.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> AEW publish their ppt buy rates? Send us a link pls


So we've been trusting Meltzer's numbers 100k on their PPV sales until I said it's great for wrestling, but not great in general? 









AEW Full Gear Estimated PPV Buys - Wrestling Inc.


AEW Full Gear is estimated at garnering around 100,000 pay-per-view buys or slightly below, according to Dave Meltzer in the the latest edition of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter. The number is similar to the buys for their last pay-per-view, All Out, which took place on August 31st. Meltzer...




www.wrestlinginc.com







TKO Wrestling said:


> Man 100,000 PPVs sold is awesome. Not sure what else would be wrong with that. It isnt a TNA situation where they are selling 7-15,000 PPVs, AEW is literally 7-10x's that. Running numbers over what WCW ran at the end and on par with WWE B PPVs at the end.


It's not that 100,000 PPVs is bad. It's just perspective. There's a reason they're not doing 12 PPVs out the gate, it's less about wanting time to build stories and more they know $50 is a big ask every month for wrestling, especially for a new promotion. I mean the UFC prior to the ESPN deal could do 100k buys monthly bare minimum and they don't do much better than AEW TV ratings wise.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> So we've been trusting Meltzer's numbers 100k on their PPV sales until I said it's great for wrestling, but not great in general?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Full Gear Estimated PPV Buys - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> AEW Full Gear is estimated at garnering around 100,000 pay-per-view buys or slightly below, according to Dave Meltzer in the the latest edition of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter. The number is similar to the buys for their last pay-per-view, All Out, which took place on August 31st. Meltzer...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that 100,000 PPVs is bad. It's just perspective. There's a reason they're not doing 12 PPVs out the gate, it's less about wanting time to build stories and more they know $50 is a big ask every month for wrestling, especially for a new promotion. I mean the UFC prior to the ESPN deal could do 100k buys monthly bare minimum and they don't do much better than AEW TV ratings wise.


yeah it's great for wrestling. WWE's PPV sales are pretty shit considering they had guaranteed 5+ million people watching raw WWE PPV Pay-Per-View Buyrates | 2xzone.com

UFC is a different ballgame because that's their main product. Wrestling's main product is weekly television. With the internet now, you don't even need to watch the PPV.

To be honest, wrestling isn't a proper contact sport like boxing or UFC so they should move away from PPV content altogether. Specials in place of weekly programs would be better.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Glad they are going to Houston, another Texas show! They could draw big crowds in San Antonio and El Paso also.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> yeah it's great for wrestling. WWE's PPV sales are pretty shit considering they had guaranteed 5+ million people watching raw WWE PPV Pay-Per-View Buyrates | 2xzone.com
> 
> UFC is a different ballgame because that's their main product. Wrestling's main product is weekly television. With the internet now, you don't even need to watch the PPV.
> 
> To be honest, wrestling isn't a proper contact sport like boxing or UFC so they should move away from PPV content altogether. Specials in place of weekly programs would be better.


No argument there, there's a reason WWE went to the Network model. You don't start selling for $10 if you think you can get $50 a month.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> No argument there, there's a reason WWE went to the Network model. You don't start selling for $10 if you think you can get $50 a month.


WWE should've hitched onto Netflix or Prime. The subscriber database is MASSIVE. it would've put a ton more eyes on the product.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> No argument there, there's a reason WWE went to the Network model. You don't start selling for $10 if you think you can get $50 a month.


It's not that simple, they were getting $50 even though PPV was declining, they just figured a lot more people would bite at $10 (with a 6-month commitment at the start) to make up for it but it really was not the case. With the 50/50 split for PPV they would need 2.5 network subs to every PPV buy, plus more for the overhead of running the platform, so maybe as high as 5:1 or more. They were expecting to have over 3 million subs by now, which if they had would have made it a very smart move. The main issue they had is they priced it too low to start to get subs signed up fast and they overestimated the demand of extra people above and beyond the former PPV crowd buying in. If they had started at $20 a month and still did similar numbers it would be a different story. They are currently bringing in much more than they did during the PPV years, but the high cost of running the network is probably the sticking point of WWE looking for other options.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> WWE should've hitched onto Netflix or Prime. The subscriber database is MASSIVE. it would've put a ton more eyes on the product.


Yeah though I wonder if Nextflix and Prime we're ready or considering live events back then. I wonder what their library on Netflix used to do back then. 



Jonhern said:


> It's not that simple, they were getting $50 even though PPV was declining, they just figured a lot more people would bite at $10 (with a 6-month commitment at the start) to make up for it but it really was not the case. With the 50/50 split for PPV they would need 2.5 network subs to every PPV buy, plus more for the overhead of running the platform, so maybe as high as 5:1 or more. They were expecting to have over 3 million subs by now, which if they had would have made it a very smart move. The main issue they had is they priced it too low to start to get subs signed up fast and they overestimated the demand of extra people above and beyond the former PPV crowd buying in. If they had started at $20 a month and still did similar numbers it would be a different story. They are currently bringing in much more than they did during the PPV years, but the high cost of running the network is probably the sticking point of WWE looking for other options.


Makes sense I know the splits can be crazy on PPV. It is peculiar to where your both doing better than you were, but not near what you need to be doing. But given how they've been finessing with TV deals, I'm sure if they move from the Network they'll get good money.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Yeah though I wonder if Nextflix and Prime we're ready or considering live events back then. I wonder what their library on Netflix used to do back then.
> 
> 
> Makes sense I know the splits can be crazy on PPV. It is peculiar to where your both doing better than you were, but not near what you need to be doing. But given how they've been finessing with TV deals, I'm sure if they move from the Network they'll get good money.


yeah, it was meant to be a growth generator but didn't perform as they expected or hoped, so while most fans see it as a success, most investors have been calling it a dud for the last few years.


----------



## IronMan8

tducey said:


> Yeah, 50 bucks is way to much to be paying for a PPV these days with all the streaming services available. I expect if they go off the network for PPVs they'll charge 25-30 dollars a PPV.


The Network gave them millions of views for a PPV, so the effect of a sharp drop in PPV viewership will be very interesting for a product that generates a billion dollars from TV advertising + International money.

Where is WWE's incentive to use their billion dollar TV shows to sell a $50 PPV that will generate 0.05% of their revenue for the year? (0.05% of a billion is $5 million if my math is correct) 

I'll never pay more than $10 for a wrestling PPV, they're just not worth that much money. In today's age there's a million ways for people to consume them for free. 

If it's impossible to find a wrestling PPV for free then there's millions of other forms of distraction around you, including 10+ hours a week of live wrestling. What are you paying for? Great wrestling? You can see that anytime. 

AEW at least restricts themselves to 4 PPVs a year, so there's a 3-month storyline build. Will WWE cut the filler PPVs?If not, I'd still expect WWE to change the way they book the Big 4 PPVs, so we'd be seeing a different product - but like I said above, where is the incentive when those PPVs would constitute like 1-2% _combined_ of their total revenue for the year?

UFC's big names strictly only appear on big PPVs, correct? Their weekly shows are full of relative no-names, right? We can see Drew McIntyre, Bray Wyatt or Becky Lynch every week for free. The UFC model does not apply to WWE.

Can wrestling matches ever sell consistently in today's world of unlimited entertainment options (including oversaturation of wrestling matches) and the Internet? 

It seems some old business people have placed wrestling in the box of "live, combat sports" and IMO that's going to lead to unmet expectations.


----------



## MOXL3Y

Haven't paid for a PPV since the early days of UFC becoming popular again. 

As many have said already there are just too many ways to consume content now, especially to avoid paying outrageous PPV prices....

Hopefully AEW realizes that sooner than later.


----------



## validreasoning

RapShepard said:


> No argument there, there's a reason WWE went to the Network model. You don't start selling for $10 if you think you can get $50 a month.


WWE were unhappy that ppv providers were taking 50% of the money made and felt they could make more money by offering service for less but keeping all proceeds.

WWE ppvs are still available to buy for $50+ if you want that option. List of ppv providers who offered rumble at full price is listed here How to Watch


optikk sucks said:


> WWE should've hitched onto Netflix or Prime. The subscriber database is MASSIVE. it would've put a ton more eyes on the product.


Unless Netflix were offering them huge money I don't see any benefit. Just being on netflix didn't help LU.

The only reason WWE are talking with ESPN is because they know ESPN paid $150 million a year for ufc fight pass content and sold it for $4.99 a month to consumers. Network content is far more valuable than fightpass content in theory hence WWEs interest.

The ESPN+ UFC ppv deal happened a year later.



IronMan8 said:


> The Network gave them millions of views for a PPV, so the effect of a sharp drop in PPV viewership will be very interesting for a product that generates a billion dollars from TV advertising + International money.
> 
> Where is WWE's incentive to use their billion dollar TV shows to sell a $50 PPV that will generate 0.05% of their revenue for the year? (0.05% of a billion is $5 million if my math is correct)


Tv deals are over 5 years. So fox deal is $200m a year not a billion.



> I'll never pay more than $10 for a wrestling PPV, they're just not worth that much money. In today's age there's a million ways for people to consume them for free.


To be fair you aren't the type of fan WWE or ESPN are targeting. Anyone that says 'there are a million ways to consume it for free' are not in same group as the millions who paid $100 to see McGregor and Mayweather despite it being available for free elsewhere



> AEW at least restricts themselves to 4 PPVs a year, so there's a 3-month storyline build. Will WWE cut the filler PPVs?If not, I'd still expect WWE to change the way they book the Big 4 PPVs, so we'd be seeing a different product - but like I said above, where is the incentive when those PPVs would constitute like 1-2% _combined_ of their total revenue for the year?


its more than 1-2%. Last year network ppv generated $185m for WWE and $200m in 2018 so 19.5% of total revenue in 2019 and 21.5% in 2018.

if WWE are talking with Disney you must assume ESPN are willing to pay quite a bit more for network content than WWE could bring in in subscribers so North of $200m per year. As stated they are paying UFC $150m annually for 15 fight pass events (that's separate from the ppv deal)



> UFC's big names strictly only appear on big PPVs, correct? Their weekly shows are full of relative no-names, right? We can see Drew McIntyre, Bray Wyatt or Becky Lynch every week for free. The UFC model does not apply to WWE.


Outside McGregor and Jones/GSP majority of UFC signed talent do work tv from time to time.

Brock, Cena, HHH, Taker, Goldberg, Edge etc are unlikely to work tv matches and just appear on ppv.



> Can wrestling matches ever sell consistently in today's world of unlimited entertainment options (including oversaturation of wrestling matches) and the Internet?


2.2 million were subscribed to the network the day after Wrestlemania 34 so yes it can. Rouseys debut was a big part of that that obviously. 2 million was subscribed day after Wrestlemania 35, the first ever Wrestlemania women's main event the biggest selling point of that card.

The right match or set of matches can sell a wrestling event yes. I suspect this weeks AEW ppv does better than full gear by quite a distance given the two matches on top have much more buzz than the top matches at full gear had.



> It seems some old business people have placed wrestling in the box of "live, combat sports" and IMO that's going to lead to unmet expectations.


Why though. What's the difference. People are paying to see wrestlers get it on in a ring. At the end of the day it's how well you promote it will determine how well it sells. Second fury and Wilder fight was vastly better promoted hence it's much bigger ppv buys.

You don't think a potential Brock vs McGregor or rock vs Brock or rock McGregor or rock vs reigns or Cena vs McGregor would have fans interested enough to buy?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Haven't kept up with the XFL ratings in weeks 2 or 3, but because it was mentioned here a couple of weeks ago, I came across the ratings today, and unsurprisingly, there's been a huge drop. From 2.9 million, to 2.2 million, to 1.7 million this week.

Those who doubted what I was saying at the time should realize that the XFL is once again doomed for failure.


----------



## validreasoning

If xfl averages 1.5 million on Fox and abc and 750k on fs1 and ESPN they will get decent tv deal. It's out of prime time too

The nba averaged 1.5 million for regular season games last year on TNT/ESPN/ABC and mlb averaged 1.1 million on Fox for regular season games.


----------



## AEWMoxley

validreasoning said:


> If xfl averages 1.5 million on Fox and abc and 750k on fs1 and ESPN they will get decent tv deal. It's out of prime time too
> 
> The nba averaged 1.5 million for regular season games last year on TNT/ESPN/ABC and mlb averaged 1.1 million on Fox for regular season games.


XFL will be done after the 1st season. It's over.


----------



## validreasoning

AEWMoxley said:


> XFL will be done after the 1st season. It's over.


They have enough money to last 3 years without money coming in..

XFL game at 2pm on Saturday beat the NBA game in prime time on same channel in viewers so no way could the numbers be considered bad right now.

2 million watching an xfl game is much more valuable to networks than 2 million watching a pro wrestling show because advertisers view wrestling fans as poor and uneducated


----------



## Dark Emperor

validreasoning said:


> 2 million watching an xfl game is much more valuable to networks than 2 million watching a pro wrestling show because advertisers view wrestling fans as poor and uneducated


Hahaha love this post! And we can't blame the advertisers judging by the amount of rubbish posted on a daily basis on this forum.


----------



## AEWMoxley

validreasoning said:


> They have enough money to last 3 years without money coming in..
> 
> XFL game at 2pm on Saturday easily beat the NBA game in prime time on same channel in viewers
> 
> 2 million watching an xfl game is much more valuable to networks than 2 million watching a pro wrestling show because advertisers view wrestling fans as poor and uneducated


They averaged 1.7 million viewers this weekend. They've lost almost half of their audience in just 2 weeks, and are about to lose much more, since literally no one on the planet cares about spring football leagues featuring random dudes off the street, as evidenced by decades worth of spring leagues failing.

"They have enough money to last 3 years without money coming in.."

Last 3 years and lose hundreds of millions of dollars for what reason? They are going to be in much worse shape after 3 years, and have exactly 0% chance of being anywhere close to profitable beyond that. Vince McMahon is one of the biggest imbeciles on the planet, but even he realizes this is a futile effort.

"because advertisers view wrestling fans as poor and uneducated"

XFL viewers are mostly wrestling fans. Poor and uneducated, and watching a Vince product only out of habit, much like like RAW.


----------



## bdon

Comparing a 2pm Saturday game on regular TV to an 8:30pm SATURDAY game on cable is ridiculous.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

validreasoning said:


> The right match or set of matches can sell a wrestling event yes. I suspect this weeks AEW ppv does better than full gear by quite a distance given the two matches on top have much more buzz than the top matches at full gear had.


Man, I hope so. In the back of my stomach I fear that this is the PPV where the bubble bursts and they drop down to the 50k range instead of the 100k or more range. I would be thrilled if they get 120k this time based on the two top matches. I just wonder how much of the shine is gone for the AEW PPVs now with 20 FREE episodes of Dynamite in the history books.

To me, Revolution is the biggest test yet for AEW and their growth.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

TKO Wrestling said:


> Man, I hope so. In the back of my stomach I fear that this is the PPV where the bubble bursts and they drop down to the 50k range instead of the 100k or more range. I would be thrilled if they get 120k this time based on the two top matches. I just wonder how much of the shine is gone for the AEW PPVs now with 20 FREE episodes of Dynamite in the history books.
> 
> To me, Revolution is the biggest test yet for AEW and their growth.


Right now I’m not planning on getting it. A wrestling show (or any other show for that matter) just isn’t worth $50 to me. It was different earlier on when it was all new and I wanted to see what the promotion was about, and it had been many years since I’d seen a good wrestling show. Now that it’s on every week, I just can’t see parting with the cash. I may change my mind between now and then, but I have to wonder how many other AEW fans are of the same mindset.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Right now I’m not planning on getting it. A wrestling show (or any other show for that matter) just isn’t worth $50 to me. It was different earlier on when it was all new and I wanted to see what the promotion was about, and it had been many years since I’d seen a good wrestling show. Now that it’s on every week, I just can’t see parting with the cash. I may change my mind between now and then, but I have to wonder how many other AEW fans are of the same mindset.


I worry many have that same mindset. I will order it but im just the prototypical super fan that wants to support AEW in every way possible; PPV, live events, merch, watching all the YouTube stuff to give them viewers, etc....

But I doubt there are 120,000 people like me. Hope I am wrong!


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

TKO Wrestling said:


> I worry many have that same mindset. I will order it but im just the prototypical super fan that wants to support AEW in every way possible; PPV, live events, merch, watching all the YouTube stuff to give them viewers, etc....
> 
> But I doubt there are 120,000 people like me. Hope I am wrong!


Well, there’s about 900k watching it live every week, plus who knows how many others watching on DVR and streaming services, so who knows. I hope it does well, and I may cave in and buy it anyway. A lot could depend on how well they hype it on tomorrow’s Dynamite.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

AEWMoxley said:


> Haven't kept up with the XFL ratings in weeks 2 or 3, but because it was mentioned here a couple of weeks ago, I came across the ratings today, and unsurprisingly, there's been a huge drop. From 2.9 million, to 2.2 million, to 1.7 million this week.
> 
> Those who doubted what I was saying at the time should realize that the XFL is once again doomed for failure.


This is Saturdays comparison to have a rough estimate of where they are currently:

XFL on ABC- 1.9 million viewers
XFL on Fox - 2.05 million viewers
NBA on ABC- 1.75 million viewers
PGA on NBC- 1.72 million viewers
NCAAM on CBS - 966k viewers
NCAAM on Fox - 546k viewers
Soccer on NBC - 843k viewers


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> This is Saturdays comparison to have a rough estimate of where they are currently:
> 
> XFL on ABC- 1.9 million viewers
> XFL on Fox - 2.05 million viewers
> NBA on ABC- 1.75 million viewers
> PGA on NBC- 1.72 million viewers
> NCAAM on CBS - 966k viewers
> NCAAM on Fox - 546k viewers
> Soccer on NBC - 843k viewers


Terrible. It's only going to get worse, too. The average over both Saturday and Sunday is down to almost half of what they got on opening weekend. They'll continue to slide, as the novelty of a new league wears off, and people will go on not caring about spring football, as they've done literally forever.

The XFL was always going to be a loser. Football outside of the NFL and NCAA cannot survive.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

AEWMoxley said:


> Terrible. It's only going to get worse, too. The average over both Saturday and Sunday is down to almost half of what they got on opening weekend. They'll continue to slide, as the novelty of a new league wears off, and people will go on not caring about spring football, as they've done literally forever.
> 
> The XFL was always going to be a loser. Football outside of the NFL and NCAA cannot survive.


When you are leading every major sports feed on a major network then how is that terrible? Not to mention being in the 0.4-0.5 range in the demo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> When you are leading every major sports feed on a major network then how is that terrible? Not to mention being in the 0.4-0.5 range in the demo.


Because they literally lost almost half of their audience in just 2 weeks, and they will continue to lose chunks of whatever audience remains. On top of that, the other major pro sports get much better ad rates, while the XFL gets wrestling level rates, which are, and have always been, low. Given their overall viewership numbers, as well as their demo breakdown, it's obvious that it's mostly WWE viewers watching this now. A few football fans tuned in opening week. Those viewers have tuned out, and now all that remains are WWE fans (as anyone with a brain, including advertisers, could have predicted), and even that number is decreasing.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

AEWMoxley said:


> Because they literally lost almost half of their audience in just 2 weeks, and they will continue to lose chunks of whatever audience remains. On top of that, the other major pro sports get much better ad rates, while the XFL gets wrestling level rates, which are, and have always been, low. Given their overall viewership numbers, as well as their demo breakdown, it's obvious that it's mostly WWE viewers watching this now. A few football fans tuned in opening week. Those viewers have tuned out, and now all that remains are WWE fans (as anyone with a brain, including advertisers, could have predicted), and even that number is decreasing.


They have 0.4-0.5 in the 18-49 demo and you say that shows they are WWE fans? There have been zero WWE references or appearances to warrant a non-football fan to watch. By your account AEW is failing since they lost a third of their viewership numbers after the first three weeks.

The XFL has received glowing reviews from sports annalists and receives really nice coverage on all major sports talk radio and TV. Attendance has gone up each week so fans are going out to support their teams. They will never acheive NFL numbers and they stayed grounded and never expected those numbers to begin with, and neither did the networks that are airing their product. For Saturday and Sunday afternoons during late Winter and early Spring their numbers are doing exceptionally well. As evidence by leading every major sporting event being aired outside of the Daytona 500, which is a spectacle all on its own.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bloody Warpath said:


> They have 0.4-0.5 in the 18-49 demo and you say that shows they are WWE fans? There have been zero WWE references or appearances to warrant a non-football fan to watch. By your account AEW is failing since they lost a third of their viewership numbers after the first three weeks.
> 
> The XFL has received glowing reviews from sports annalists and receives really nice coverage on all major sports talk radio and TV. Attendance has gone up each week so fans are going out to support their teams. They will never acheive NFL numbers and they stayed grounded and never expected those numbers to begin with, and neither did the networks that are airing their product. For Saturday and Sunday afternoons during late Winter and early Spring their numbers are doing exceptionally well. As evidence by leading every major sporting event being aired outside of the Daytona 500, which is a spectacle all on its own.


No sports or football fan is taking this product seriously or watching it. This is a product currently propped up by a group of people who will watching anything Vince puts out. Except in this case, they will stick with it for a much shorter period of time, given that it's not wrestling. That's evidenced by them losing half of their audience in only 2 weeks.

AEW lost a good portion of their audience because they were basically WWE for the first month. Bad comedy, and nothing but matches, without any angles or storylines, for the first 4-5 episodes. However, wrestling isn't football. Competitors to WWE can survive for years and decades. Competitors to the NFL cannot. They die instantly, just like the XFL will.


----------



## rbl85

The XFL games did 1,473 (ESPN) and 1.004(FOX) this Sunday.


----------



## Jonhern

Can we like ban this person from posting about off-topic stuff. Take the XFL stuff to the appropriate forum, this thread is about AEW for fuck's sake, nothing to do with XFL. He sounds like a Wood alter ego too.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Jonhern said:


> Can we like ban this person from posting about off-topic stuff. Take the XFL stuff to the appropriate forum, this thread is about AEW for fuck's sake, nothing to do with XFL. He sounds like a Wood alter ego too.


 I mean for real. All the best to the XFL, I think spring football sucks because I am a giant NBA fan that couldn't care less once the Dallas Cowboys are eliminated it is Luka time. This is an AEW forum.


----------



## imthegame19

XFL isn't going anywhere until they can get some star NFL guys playing. Even if they are past their prime guys they need something like that. Look at AEW they got some guys who are known by wrestling fans in Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, Bucks, Hager and Dustin Rhodes. So that allows them to get within million or million and half viewers of Raw or Smackdown. XFL is going to continue to drop and come nowhere close to NFL. Unless they can get some attractions. I'm big NFL fan but I know XFL doesn't interest me. But it would if they signed Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Phillip Rivers etc. I would totally watch and give it a shot.


Which is why I got into AEW because they signed Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Dustin and I heard all hype around Omega/Bucks(who I saw in TNA and wasn't impressed but that was like 2010). With tv network and owner to grow the company. So it was exciting alternative to what I felt was stale WWE product. So far I really enjoy AEW and look forward it every week. I'm even going to Revolution this weekend which is my first wrestling show since 2004 Raw. If XFL is going to be a success. That's the only way for it to work. Because people aren't emotionally invested in these teams like they are NFL or College. So the only way to draw in viewers is big names.


----------



## IronMan8

validreasoning said:


> WWE were unhappy that ppv providers were taking 50% of the money made and felt they could make more money by offering service for less but keeping all proceeds.
> 
> WWE ppvs are still available to buy for $50+ if you want that option. List of ppv providers who offered rumble at full price is listed here How to Watch
> 
> 
> Unless Netflix were offering them huge money I don't see any benefit. Just being on netflix didn't help LU.
> 
> The only reason WWE are talking with ESPN is because they know ESPN paid $150 million a year for ufc fight pass content and sold it for $4.99 a month to consumers. Network content is far more valuable than fightpass content in theory hence WWEs interest.
> 
> The ESPN+ UFC ppv deal happened a year later.
> 
> 
> 
> Tv deals are over 5 years. So fox deal is $200m a year not a billion.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair you aren't the type of fan WWE or ESPN are targeting. Anyone that says 'there are a million ways to consume it for free' are not in same group as the millions who paid $100 to see McGregor and Mayweather despite it being available for free elsewhere
> 
> 
> 
> its more than 1-2%. Last year network ppv generated $185m for WWE and $200m in 2018 so 19.5% of total revenue in 2019 and 21.5% in 2018.
> 
> if WWE are talking with Disney you must assume ESPN are willing to pay quite a bit more for network content than WWE could bring in in subscribers so North of $200m per year. As stated they are paying UFC $150m annually for 15 fight pass events (that's separate from the ppv deal)
> 
> 
> 
> Outside McGregor and Jones/GSP majority of UFC signed talent do work tv from time to time.
> 
> Brock, Cena, HHH, Taker, Goldberg, Edge etc are unlikely to work tv matches and just appear on ppv.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.2 million were subscribed to the network the day after Wrestlemania 34 so yes it can. Rouseys debut was a big part of that that obviously. 2 million was subscribed day after Wrestlemania 35, the first ever Wrestlemania women's main event the biggest selling point of that card.
> 
> The right match or set of matches can sell a wrestling event yes. I suspect this weeks AEW ppv does better than full gear by quite a distance given the two matches on top have much more buzz than the top matches at full gear had.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though. What's the difference. People are paying to see wrestlers get it on in a ring. At the end of the day it's how well you promote it will determine how well it sells. Second fury and Wilder fight was vastly better promoted hence it's much bigger ppv buys.
> 
> You don't think a potential Brock vs McGregor or rock vs Brock or rock McGregor or rock vs reigns or Cena vs McGregor would have fans interested enough to buy?


No offence, but you completely misunderstood my post.


----------



## bdon

A great explanation of TV Ratings


----------



## Jonhern

bdon said:


> A great explanation of TV Ratings


Good video but some outdated info. They don't use boxes anymore, they use people meters, which is how they will be able to report out of home viewing starting next fall. Source: I was a Nielson home and had to use one of those meters. Also in terms of polls, they actually have a very large sample size. But exactly what I have been saying, don't focus on total viewers, its not a true representation of the actual audience. It really doesn't matter if they are above or below 1 million. The only thing that matters is the demo because it relates to the success of the show on cable tv.


----------



## DOTL

Jonhern said:


> Good video but some outdated info. They don't use boxes anymore, they use people meters, which is how they will be able to report out of home viewing starting next fall. Source: I was a Nielson home and had to use one of those meters. Also in terms of polls, they actually have a very large sample size. But exactly what I have been saying, don't focus on total viewers, its not a true representation of the actual audience. It really doesn't matter if they are above or below 1 million. The only thing that matters is the demo because it relates to the success of the show on cable tv.


People meter? Sounds Orwellian.


----------



## Jonhern

DOTL said:


> People meter? Sounds Orwellian.


it is lol, it looks like a little beeper and listens for a hidden low-frequency audio signal embedded in programs, both television and radio. They also say they can track Netflix viewing even though Netflix does not work with them. It doesn't track location though, but it does have cell service to send the data up at 3 am each day, so they could definitely track location if they wanted to. But I don't think they do since you also get two little home beacons that the meter picks up and that allows them to know if you are watching at home or not. I was always good with it so I never got calls from them, but other members that kept forgetting to take it with them would get calls asking why lol. you got paid for how long you wore it, not how much you watch, but it had to stay in motion, so you couldn't just leave it in your bag, which made it most difficult for the ladies of the household and they always had the most issues because of that. It's an ever-changing sample too, you can only be part of it for a max of 2 years.


----------



## Aedubya

Why is an XFL thread in here?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Tonight we'll find out if either PAC or Omega are stars. 


If they can't pull in a million viewers, then I can't see how that argument can be made.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> Tonight we'll find out if either PAC or Omega are stars.
> 
> 
> If they can't pull in a million viewers, then I can't see how that argument can be made.


Well Jéricho and Moxley couldn't so that means that they're not stars ?


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> Tonight we'll find out if either PAC or Omega are stars.
> 
> 
> If they can't pull in a million viewers, then I can't see how that argument can be made.


Pac has been a ratings buzzkill in aknots every segment. He’s a tremendous worker in ring, has a good look physically, but his entire gimmick is that he is a bastard?

I can imagine most casual fans seeing him and thinking, “Hey, a bad guy wearing all black with stringy black hair, and he is short. Seen it, hated it. _CLICK!_”


----------



## Dark Emperor

NathanMayberry said:


> Tonight we'll find out if either PAC or Omega are stars.
> 
> 
> If they can't pull in a million viewers, then I can't see how that argument can be made.


Firstly AEW has not had over 1m viewers since Week 3. So the only reason to even think 1m was possible is the fact that its a go home show to PPV. Personally i think that wont make a difference.

Secondly Pac was outdrawn by Enzo by a significant margin on 205 live. So Pac and the word draw in same sentence just doesn't go, he aint having any impact. So a match with Kenny will not be the reason they pull 1m+ if it happened.


----------



## taker1986

They deserve to be over 1 Million after the run of shows they've had recently, not expecting it though.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The ironman match will lead to the worst rating AEW has had in 2020. I can't wait to see how many viewers clicked off of it during that tie.

Honestly it was an amazing match but it should be on PPV, not television, people that pay to watch it will not flip off which is probably 1/10th of AEWs total viewer pool.

I see everyone praising last nights show but I really felt it was their worst show in a few weeks.


----------



## RiverFenix

NXT is stacking their show next week for some reason. Seems they want to tamp down any PPV bump AEW might get. Or they think there will be a Matt Hardy debut that could draw over enough NXT viewers and get AEW over 1M.


----------



## Whoanma

taker1986 said:


> They deserve to be over 1 Million after the run of shows they've had recently, not expecting it though.


Yup, sadly


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ignore this


----------



## AEWMoxley

For what it's worth, Revolution seems to be trending higher than Full Gear did around the same time, in terms of Google searches. You can't get a clear picture yet, because the only time period you can use to compare is the last 12 months, and so searches are tallied on a week by week basis, so since the week isn't complete, comparisons aren't entirely accurate. However, comparing the weeks before each event, Revolution trended higher. Based on the week of, Revolution is tracking very well, and looks like it may do better than Full Gear.


----------



## IamMark

9th AEW 865k-0.30 - 17th NXT 717k-0.23


----------



## NathanMayberry




----------



## IamMark




----------



## Erik.

AEW won every single demo. 

That ever happened before?


----------



## IamMark

AEW Countdown to Revolution - 383k viewers 0.14 rating, 61st place in demo
Miz & Mrs - 394k viewers (down 21.2%) 0.13 rating, 62nd place in demo


----------



## rbl85

A lot more women watched this episode than the one last week.

It's really hard to follow the ratings XD


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> A lot more women watched this episode than the one last week.
> 
> It's really hard to follow the ratings XD


Seems women hate Charlotte


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Color me shocked, I really expected sub 800k due to the iron man match.


----------



## rbl85

It will be interesting to see if this show like the 2 previous one started low and gained viewers through the show.


----------



## llj

Yuka Sakazaki bigger draw than Charlotte confirmed


----------



## llj

Pippen94 said:


> Seems women hate Charlotte


heard that this week's RAW did well with female viewers as well, with no Charlotte on it. COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT


----------



## Dark Emperor

Same old AEW rating.

But NXT actually went down. LOL nobody cares about Charlotte. Hope WWE gets the message and stop pretending she's a major star.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Another win and got all the demos.


----------



## Purple Haze

AEW had a good show this week, while NXT had it's worst episode in a good time, nothing interesting and they had Ric Flair's daughter on the main event against Jericho and Moxley, AEW deserved to win in all demos.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Charlotte: The Anti-Draw LOL

I wasn't able to watch Dynamite I didn't have TNT for the 1st hour and it came on with Moxley and Jericho and I turned it off because I want to see the whole show from the beginning.


----------



## EMGESP

Seriously what is holding back AEW from hitting at least 1 million views? They keep delivering some amazing weekly shows. Is it really something lame like a lack of steroid muscle heads or something. I just don't get it, this is the most entertained I've been as a wrestling fan since the late 90s.


----------



## imthegame19

EMGESP said:


> Seriously what is holding back AEW from hitting at least 1 million views? They keep delivering some amazing weekly shows. Is it really something lame like a lack of steroid muscle heads or something. I just don't get it, this is the most entertained I've been as a wrestling fan since the late 90s.


It will get there. Maybe next week show if PPV is really well received.


----------



## RapShepard

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Charlotte: The Anti-Draw LOL


If Charlotte is an anti-draw what are Moxley and Jericho? I mean their show only did 150k more viewers and . 7 in the demo. Both shows are doing fine and can't crack a million



EMGESP said:


> Seriously what is holding back AEW from hitting at least 1 million views? They keep delivering some amazing weekly shows. Is it really something lame like a lack of steroid muscle heads or something. I just don't get it, this is the most entertained I've been as a wrestling fan since the late 90s.


Combination of things. It's a new wrestling brand, wrestling isn't mainstream hot, they have no megastars. They're still doing solid though. They're consistently top 10.


----------



## NathanMayberry

EMGESP said:


> Seriously what is holding back AEW from hitting at least 1 million views? They keep delivering some amazing weekly shows. Is it really something lame like a lack of steroid muscle heads or something. I just don't get it, this is the most entertained I've been as a wrestling fan since the late 90s.


You guys cuss off anyone who dares to say why they may not like AEW, maybe if they were listened to more you'd have your reasons. 

My theory is that they try too hard to please the fans who have shown that they'd like anything AEW puts out, and they alienate other potential fans who don't find clowns like Marko Stunt or Orange Cassidy or Cody's wife entertaining.


----------



## Brodus Clay

It's hilarous how Charlotte fans shat on Michelle McCool this week and now Charlotte gets proven has the anti draw, not a fan of both girls but at least Michelle was somewhat hot.


----------



## sideon

RapShepard said:


> Combination of things. It's a new wrestling brand, wrestling isn't mainstream hot, they have no megastars. They're still doing solid though. They're consistently top 10.


This isn't the good ol days where things had time to grow, people latch onto stuff quickly now and the reality is that they may never reach a million again. TNT liked them enough to give them a 4yr extension so maybe this is good enough.


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> You guys cuss off anyone who dares to say why they may not like AEW, maybe if they were listened to more you'd have your reasons.
> 
> My theory is that they try too hard to please the fans who have shown that they'd like anything AEW puts out, and they alienate other potential fans who don't find clowns like Marko Stunt or Orange Cassidy or Cody's wife entertaining.


Thanks Jim Cornette


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Last week people were talking about how NXT draws more females.

WHERE?


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> Last week people were talking about how NXT draws more females.
> 
> WHERE?


Females thought they were gonna see Moxley/Jericho in their underwear during the weigh in. Charlotte can't compete with that lol.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Females thought they were gonna see Moxley/Jericho in their underwear during the weigh in. Charlotte can't compete with that lol.


Literally no one thought this.


----------



## rexmundi

Props to AEW for their ninth straight ratings victory this year. NXT is 0 for 2020. You gotta think WWE might load up NXT card with main brand talent if this trend solidifies.


----------



## Cult03

EMGESP said:


> Seriously what is holding back AEW from hitting at least 1 million views? They keep delivering some amazing weekly shows. Is it really something lame like a lack of steroid muscle heads or something. I just don't get it, this is the most entertained I've been as a wrestling fan since the late 90s.


The show is aimed at like 800k people and that's it. The other 100k want them to be better and another 50k show up every so often expecting them to be better. They aren't gaining new fans with SCU, Stunt, Janella, Allin etc. They will win new fans with actual wrestling stars that people care about


----------



## DOTL

Maybe 


Cult03 said:


> The show is aimed at like 800k people and that's it. The other 100k want them to be better and another 50k show up every so often expecting them to be better. They aren't gaining new fans with SCU, Stunt, Janella, Allin etc. They will win new fans with actual wrestling stars that people care about


Most the guys you mentioned aren’t even headliners.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> Maybe
> 
> Most the guys you mentioned aren’t even headliners.


None of them are. But the fans who want to watch Jericho and Mox are already watching. Fans knowing Stunt might get a roll up on Jericho have already switched off. They have been sitting at around 900k viewers for months now, so bringing in a Matt Hardy, who according to twitter has 1.4 million followers will get them closer to a million viewers. It's all about promotion and having those star wrestlers promote them will bring in fans


----------



## The Masked Avenger

NXT going in with 2 cage matches next week; Nox v Kai and Strong v Dream. I wouldn't be surprised if they start with one and end with the other.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

rexmundi said:


> Props to AEW for their ninth straight ratings victory this year. NXT is 0 for 2020. You gotta think WWE might load up NXT card with main brand talent if this trend solidifies.


Even more importantly, AEW is like 17-3 going back to Dynamite's debut last year. In terms of who draws better in the principal demo, they're 19-1 lol.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

I really believe Moxley winning the title will get them over 1M viewers, at least for awhile

Wrestling has always drawn best when you have a strong babyface on top


----------



## Cult03

Lockard The GOAT said:


> I really believe Moxley winning the title will get them over 1M viewers, at least for awhile
> 
> Wrestling has always drawn best when you have a strong babyface on top


Isn't it a well known fact that wrestling fans enjoy the chase for the title more so than the actual reign?


----------



## Erik.

Cult03 said:


> Isn't it a well known fact that wrestling fans enjoy the chase for the title more so than the actual reign?


I know that Raw gained nearly one million extra viewers upon Austin finally getting the belt in '98.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Namaste to the fine people in this thread ? 

Ratings as expected, all shall be well.

?


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

Cult03 said:


> Isn't it a well known fact that wrestling fans enjoy the chase for the title more so than the actual reign?


That's a myth. Most of the time, the best drawing times for a promotion are when you have a dominant babyface overcoming several heel challengers.


----------



## RiverFenix

COVID-19 spread in the US could really impact things - NJPW canceled shows recently and US is about two weeks behind Japan/SK in the spread rate. AEW gets Revolution in and DoN II will probably be outside the voluntary quatantines and canceled events window but television could be cut. WWE could see themselves in a real pickle with Wrestlemania this year - how many folks will not want to fly? Then sit in very close quarters with tens of thousands for 5-6-7 hours straight? If NBA and NHL resort to playing empty arena games to end their seasons WWE could be under a lot of pressure with their event.


----------



## imthegame19

Ratings breakdown for 2/19 show.



The first quarter had AEW with a Battle Royal, which did 882,000 total viewers and 402,000 in 18-49. The second quarter saw AEW continue the Battle Royal plus the beginning of Shanna vs. Kris Statlander, which lost 18,000 viewers(864,000) and 7,000 in 18-49. The third quarter saw AEW continue Shanna vs. Statlander and have a Nyla Rose interview. That lost 69,000 viewers(795,000) and 48,000 in 18-49.



The fourth quarter saw things reverse. Jon Moxley vs. Jeff Cobb for AEW gained 177,000 viewers(972,000) and gained 78,000 in 18-49. The fifth quarter, built around the post-match beating of Moxley, saw AEW gain 1,000 viewers overall(973,000).



The sixth quarter saw AEW have the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix match, which lost 75,000 viewers(898,000) and 27,000 in 18-49. The seventh quarter, which for AEW was basically building next week’s show, videos building the cage match story, lost 83,000 viewers(815,000) and 40,000 in 18-49. The final quarter, the head-to-head main events, was a big win as expected for AEW. Cody vs. Wardlow in a cage gained 132,000 viewers to 947,000, and gained 46,000 in 18-49 to 420,000.


Once again Moxley, Cody and Jericho carry ratings being in 947,000 to ,973,000 quarters (everything else below 900,000). Once again numbers are showing it's time to pull trigger on Moxley as champion.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

“The sixth quarter saw AEW have the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix match, which lost 75,000 viewers(898,000) and 27,000 in 18-49.”

what happened here


----------



## TKO Wrestling

It's clear that Mox, Jericho, Cody, and MJF (his segments usually grow too) carry the show. Hopefully Hangman is about to join that group. But is there really room for 3 dominant babyfaces?


----------



## RiverFenix

optikk sucks said:


> “The sixth quarter saw AEW have the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix match, which lost 75,000 viewers(898,000) and 27,000 in 18-49.”
> 
> what happened here


AEW has booked the Lucha Brothers to be their version of Lucha House Party is what happened.

(Also no risk of a title change, it was a total throw away match with no real storyline impact)



TKO Wrestling said:


> It's clear that Mox, Jericho, Cody, and MJF (his segments usually grow too) carry the show. Hopefully Hangman is about to join that group. But is there really room for 3 dominant babyfaces?


Cody never has a throw-away appearance. If he's not needed for storyline progression he doesn't appear or wrestle. So if he's on screen something important to the storyline will happen. I think flippers are storyline chasers more than OMGWorkrate types. MJF doesn't appear every show, nor does Darby Allin for that matter - hence his return pop a week or so ago. 

This was initially the plan when AEW started - the Elite didn't want to have every top guy appear on every show because it cheapens them. Hopefully as AEW signs more guys they can get back to this vision. 

I'd still have the big names not appearing at the arena though - this is the proper use of the dark match (not DARK match) to close the night for the fans. Just have a random tag match that puts the unused big names into a match for the in-attendence fans to see all the top stars (they're paying to be there afterall) whereas the television viewer only sees matches and appearances that further storylines.


----------



## AEWMoxley

> The fourth quarter saw things reverse. Jon Moxley vs. Jeff Cobb for AEW gained 177,000 viewers(972,000) and gained 78,000 in 18-49


Jesus Christ. 177,000 is the biggest quarter hour gain Dynamite has ever had.

This is why you put the title on Moxley.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> “The sixth quarter saw AEW have the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix match, which lost 75,000 viewers(898,000) and 27,000 in 18-49.”
> 
> what happened here


You've got two anti-drawing "top guys" in Omega and Page, and two guys in Pentagon and Fenix who never appear on TV. That's a recipe for a ratings disaster.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> You've got two anti-drawing "top guys" in Omega and Page, and two guys in Pentagon and Fenix who never appear on TV. That's a recipe for a ratings disaster.


i mean this just shows how you don't watch the product, as the lucha bros have been on TV almost every week: Pentagon Jr.: Profile & Match Listing - Internet Wrestling Database (IWD)


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> i mean this just shows how you don't watch the product, as the lucha bros have been on TV almost every week: Pentagon Jr.: Profile & Match Listing - Internet Wrestling Database (IWD)


If that's true, it goes to show how memorable their appearances have been, and it underscores why people don't care about them.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> If that's true, it goes to show how memorable their appearances have been, and it underscores why people don't care about them.


but i dont understand why you post in this sxn if you dont watch the show.

no sense, but up to you how you wanna spend your time i guess


----------



## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> Once again Moxley, Cody and Jericho carry ratings being in 947,000 to ,973,000 quarters (everything else below 900,000). Once again numbers are showing it's time to pull trigger on Moxley as champion.


You lot may hate to admit it, but it's no coincidence the top 3 drawing guys for AEW are ex WWE stars. People are actually invested in them as they are familiar faces. Unfortunately indy darlings like Kenny ain't on the same level.

If they can steal 1 or 2 more midcard/main event WWE guys (Luke Harper or Matt Hardy don't count) such as Kevin Owens, Finn Balor etc, then the ratings will likely be over 1m consistently.


----------



## RiverFenix

Kevin Owens ain't ever going to be a needle mover. Hardy would be a bigger get if they can seal that deal - his name has brand power from the last wrestling heyday. I have a feeling Bucks were big fans of the Broken Universe.


----------



## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> You lot may hate to admit it, but it's no coincidence the top 3 drawing guys for AEW are ex WWE stars. People are actually invested in them as they are familiar faces. Unfortunately indy darlings like Kenny ain't on the same level.
> 
> If they can steal 1 or 2 more midcard/main event WWE guys (Luke Harper or Matt Hardy don't count) such as Kevin Owens, Finn Balor etc, then the ratings will likely be over 1m consistently.


Lol how is that going for NXT? Love finn, but he is not moving the needle. The answer is not to try and get WWE guys, it is to continue to grow and build their own talent.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

411MANIA | Next Week’s Episode of AEW Dynamite Could Have Lowest Attendance Ever

Meltzer is saying that they have currently only sold ~2,500 tickets


----------



## Geeee

How is this possible for a fallout show?

What's the capacity of this venue?


----------



## Strike Force

All the initial momentum is gone, and what you're left with in the eyes of many casuals is just another wrestling promotion not named WWE. It's a hell of a lot harder to consistently draw thousands and thousands of people for wrestling than people think, even when your product is good (and I think AEW's generally is).


----------



## Strike Force

Dark Emperor said:


> You lot may hate to admit it, but it's no coincidence the top 3 drawing guys for AEW are ex WWE stars. People are actually invested in them as they are familiar faces. Unfortunately indy darlings like Kenny ain't on the same level.


That's right. Here's the entire list of wrestlers that have become mega-stars in the US in the last 25 years without appearing in WWE:

Goldberg

AEW might have the juice to buck that trend, but we haven't seen it yet.


----------



## RiverFenix

I think they could get 500 walk ups to keep them above their "record low". 

But not for nothing, COVID-19 fear is going to be a thing keeping folks out of crowds in very short order.


----------



## Strike Force

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think they could get 500 walk ups to keep them above their "record low".
> 
> But not for nothing, COVID-19 fear is going to be a thing keeping folks out of crowds in very short order.


Maybe at some point, but let's not pretend that has anything to do with sales for this show. This show is outside Denver, where the Nuggets just drew 19,000 for a game a few days ago. The virus has fuck all to do with people not caring about AEW.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop




----------



## RiverFenix

Strike Force said:


> Maybe at some point, but let's not pretend that has anything to do with sales for this show. This show is outside Denver, where the Nuggets just drew 19,000 for a game a few days ago. The virus has fuck all to do with people not caring about AEW.


I agree it's likely not impacting this number. Though look at the stock market to see folks are worried about it and it's only going to grow. And it could depress walk-ups. Mostly though it's total lack of card right now. 

As for people not caring about AEW - it's getting 850,000 viewers a week. People care, there is just some bad markets. They'll live and learn, you'll keep dancing on their grave.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jonhern said:


> Lol how is that going for NXT? Love finn, but he is not moving the needle. The answer is not to try and get WWE guys, it is to continue to grow and build their own talent.


Finn on his own is not a needle mover (Reverse roles and Mox moved to NXT beside a bunch of other unestablised faces and he wouldn't make a big impact either). Finn is a familiar face and much more well known than Cody was in WWE. If he debuted in AEW with a badass transformation, he gonna peak some interest.

Let's be honest, Jericho was never a needle mover in WWE either and ratings tanked whenever he had the belt. But as a familiar face in a smaller company with only 800k-925k ratings, the small following they bring across makes a difference.

In my opinion, nobody gives a damn about Matt Hardy in 2020 except hardcores already watching AEW.....


----------



## Strike Force

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I agree it's likely not impacting this number. Though look at the stock market to see folks are worried about it and it's only going to grow. And it could depress walk-ups. Mostly though it's total lack of card right now.
> 
> As for people not caring about AEW - it's getting 850,000 viewers a week. People care, there is just some bad markets. They'll live and learn, you'll keep dancing on their grave.


Oh, good lord. The AEW fans are so fucking sensitive. I meant people in that market don't care. 2500 tickets sold. You people are so goddamn adorable.


----------



## AEWMoxley

It's not about getting WWE guys, it's about getting WWE guys that are actually charismatic and have potential to move the needle, who happen to be underutilized by WWE. Pac and Hager were in WWE, but they aren't moving the needle. The only guys in WWE that I know from when I was still watching that would have potential would be Wyatt and Owens, if used properly. Granted, I don't think they'd be as big as Moxley or Jericho, because they aren't quite as good, but they would definitely add some interest. Everyone else was an uncharismatic hack.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jonhern said:


> Lol how is that going for NXT? Love finn, but he is not moving the needle. The answer is not to try and get WWE guys, it is to continue to grow and build their own talent.


Why can't they do both. Established WWE guys bring eyes to the product. Honestly without Mox & Cody, chnaces are AEW will be getting under 800k ratings every week.

The established ex WWE guys bring the viewers, the MJF types get noticed and they stay for them. It's not rocket science. We have 4 months of data now and the only 3 stars that gain viewers consistently are Cody, Jericho & Mox.


----------



## Geeee

So I googled it and this event is at the 1stBank Center which has a capacity of 6500. So, will probably be about 50% capacity. Kinda disappointing

Means that Scooby Doo asshole can get any seat he wants lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEWMoxley said:


> It's not about getting WWE guys, it's about getting WWE guys that are actually charismatic and have potential to move the needle, who happen to be underutilized by WWE. Pac and Hager were in WWE, but they aren't moving the needle. The only guys in WWE that I know from when I was still watching that would have potential would be Wyatt and Owens, if used properly. Granted, I don't think they'd be as big as Moxley or Jericho, because they aren't quite as good, but they would definitely add some interest. Everyone else was an uncharismatic hack.


Pac was outdrawn significantly by Enzo on 205 live & Hager was never seen as a star even when he won the title. Erm you obviously didn't watch properly as they have a guy called Bryan who will make a much larger impact than Mox. And are we gonna pretend that Mox & Jericho going to AEW is a bigger needle mover than someone like Reigns... Then there is Brock Lesnar who would change the game completely. .


----------



## imthegame19

I bet they got to 3000 come next weds.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Geeee said:


> So I googled it and this event is at the 1stBank Center which has a capacity of 6500. So, will probably be about 50% capacity. Kinda disappointing
> 
> Means that Scooby Doo asshole can get any seat he wants lol


I really hope he does not become a thing. I am dreading it to turn into a Let's Make a Deal audience if he keeps getting attention.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dark Emperor said:


> Pac was outdrawn significantly by Enzo on 205 live & Hager was never seen as a star even when he won the title. Erm you obviously didn't watch properly as they have a guy called Bryan who will make a much larger impact than Mox. And are we gonna pretend that Mox & Jericho going to AEW is a bigger needle mover than someone like Reigns... Then there is Brock Lesnar who would change the game completely. .


I didn't get to see much of Bryan. I came back to wrestling in 2012 and stopped watching WWE in 2016. Bryan had one good year from what I saw, surrounded by guys like HHH and Batista. Then he retired. Has he ever drawn without mega stars like HHH, Batista, or even Cena when they had a short feud?

Reigns has never moved the needle on TV. They made him into sort of a big name because of the massive overpush, but his drawing power never lived up to that push. I question how much he'd draw long term in a company where he has to rely on his talent (or lack thereof) as opposed to the owner's hardon for him.

Brock Lesnar would appear twice a year. He's not going to make a difference.


----------



## Fearless Viper

"AEW is dying"


----------



## Geeee

Bloody Warpath said:


> I really hope he does not become a thing. I am dreading it to turn into a Let's Make a Deal audience if he keeps getting attention.


I dunno. I kinda like the Jesus guy or if someone comes dressed as Macho Man or something. This Scooby Doo costume though is pretty bad because the person behind him definitely can't see past the stupid headpiece


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEWMoxley said:


> I didn't get to see much of Bryan. I came back to wrestling in 2012 and stopped watching WWE in 2016. Bryan had one good year from what I saw, surrounded by guys like HHH and Batista. Then he retired. Has he ever drawn without mega stars like HHH, Batista, or even Cena when they had a short feud?
> 
> Reigns has never moved the needle on TV. They made him into sort of a big name because of the massive overpush, but his drawing power never lived up to that push. I question how much he'd draw long term in a company where he has to rely on his talent (or lack thereof) as opposed to the owner's hardon for him.
> 
> Brock Lesnar would appear twice a year. He's not going to make a difference.


So basically no top WWE guys will make a difference even though the only stars currently moving the needle in AEW are 3 ex WWE guys who were and still are less stars to Lesnar, Reigns and Bryan.

Bryan moved the needle a lot more than Jericho and Mox ever did. Even Vince had to rip up his Wrestlemania plans for him. Lets be honest, AEW fans would lose their shit if he was signed. But i understand he currently works for WWE so we have to pretend he aint a needle mover....


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dark Emperor said:


> So basically no top WWE guys will make a difference even though the only stars currently moving the needle in AEW are 3 ex WWE guys who were and still are less stars to Lesnar, Reigns and Bryan.
> 
> Bryan moved the needle a lot more than Jericho and Mox ever did. Even Vince had to rip up his Wrestlemania plans for him. Lets be honest, AEW fans would lose their shit if he was signed. But i understand he currently works for WWE so we have to pretend he aint a needle mover....


I listed two WWE guys who would have potential in the kind of environment AEW has created. Being a bigger or lesser star in WWE means nothing, because WWE has underutilized many of their best talents, while pushing some of their very worst. Some of the guys you mentioned may make a big initial impact, but none of them have the aptitude for the business or the charisma and promo skills of Moxley or Jericho. That's what you need to succeed in an environment where there are no writers holding your hand and constantly telling you what to do.


----------



## Chan Hung

Bloody Warpath said:


> 411MANIA | Next Week’s Episode of AEW Dynamite Could Have Lowest Attendance Ever
> 
> Meltzer is saying that they have currently only sold ~2,500 tickets


It will pick up once the pay-per-view starts getting attention and possibly new debut of people it will pick up


----------



## patpat

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW has booked the Lucha Brothers to be their version of Lucha House Party is what happened.
> 
> (Also no risk of a title change, it was a total throw away match with no real storyline impact)
> 
> 
> Cody never has a throw-away appearance. If he's not needed for storyline progression he doesn't appear or wrestle. So if he's on screen something important to the storyline will happen. I think flippers are storyline chasers more than OMGWorkrate types. MJF doesn't appear every show, nor does Darby Allin for that matter - hence his return pop a week or so ago.
> 
> This was initially the plan when AEW started - the Elite didn't want to have every top guy appear on every show because it cheapens them. Hopefully as AEW signs more guys they can get back to this vision.
> 
> I'd still have the big names not appearing at the arena though - this is the proper use of the dark match (not DARK match) to close the night for the fans. Just have a random tag match that puts the unused big names into a match for the in-attendence fans to see all the top stars (they're paying to be there afterall) whereas the television viewer only sees matches and appearances that further storylines.


Not just that. The page omega pairing lost a bit of appeal as time went. They used to open strong with 900k sometimes even 1 million. But pretty much everyone knows they wont lose on those tv defense. There is no stake In the matches. And they haven't built omega or page enough to be able to counter that. I mean fuck omega won his first big single match this wee only. He lost all the others. As for lucha bros their booking got screwed because they refused to sign thrr contract early but it should get better


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Strike Force said:


> That's right. Here's the entire list of wrestlers that have become mega-stars in the US in the last 25 years without appearing in WWE:
> 
> Goldberg
> 
> AEW might have the juice to buck that trend, but we haven't seen it yet.


Fair take but nothing has come close to the presentation of AEW. MJF will definitely be a megastar barring catastrophic injury.


----------



## rbl85

The lowest will probably be in Salt lake.

Also for next week they already sold more than 3K tickets.


----------



## Strike Force

TKO Wrestling said:


> Fair take but nothing has come close to the presentation of AEW. MJF will definitely be a megastar barring catastrophic injury.


The issue isn't the performer, but the platform itself. MJF is fantastic, but I question whether there's enough interest in a secondary wrestling brand for ANYONE to break through as a star. 

Think about it: what's special about Goldberg? How is he different from every other wrestler around the world over the last three decades?* He's the only wrestler promoted as the #1 guy in an American brand that surpassed WWE in popularity. * WCW had surpassed WWE in 1997-1998, aligning closely with Goldberg being promoted as a killer. That's how he broke through into mega-stardom.

History suggests that, for any of their performers to break through to that level of fame and stardom, AEW as a whole would have to be competitive with, or even superior to, WWE for at least a short period, and we are a long, _*long*_ way from that scenario.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Not just that. The page omega pairing lost a bit of appeal as time went. They used to open strong with 900k sometimes even 1 million. But pretty much everyone knows they wont lose on those tv defense. There is no stake In the matches. And they haven't built omega or page enough to be able to counter that. I mean fuck omega won his first big single match this wee only. He lost all the others. As for lucha bros their booking got screwed because they refused to sign thrr contract early but it should get better


Omega and Page never opened with 900K or 1M


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Strike Force said:


> The issue isn't the performer, but the platform itself. MJF is fantastic, but I question whether there's enough interest in a secondary wrestling brand for ANYONE to break through as a star.
> 
> Think about it: what's special about Goldberg? How is he different from every other wrestler around the world over the last three decades?* He's the only wrestler promoted as the #1 guy in an American brand that surpassed WWE in popularity. * WCW had surpassed WWE in 1997-1998, aligning closely with Goldberg being promoted as a killer. That's how he broke through into mega-stardom.
> 
> History suggests that, for any of their performers to break through to that level of fame and stardom, AEW as a whole would have to be competitive with, or even superior to, WWE for at least a short period, and we are a long, _*long*_ way from that scenario.


History is history. MJF will be one of the reasons AEW is equal to WWE in 2030. They are playing the long game and it is working. TNA never drew 40% of RAWs audience on a weekly basis like AEW already is 5 months into this thing.

AEW is clearly building its own world of fans and MJF will be the biggest thing since sliced bread once he perfects his craft. You guys are neglecting that MJFs segments are drawing also, his go up just like Mox, Jericho, & Cody. You should not ignore that. The kid is legit.


----------



## DaSlacker

They don't do themselves any favours with silly crap like Orange Cassidy nonchalantly confronting a psychotic PAC and rushed, sloppy six man tag team matches featuring Marko and ineffective referees.

It is funny to smarks but weird to casual observers.

As it is, AEW has approximately 1 million to 1.3 million fans in the USA. There are over 300 medium sized cities so the baseline attendance was destined to be 3,000 once the initial buzz wore off.


----------



## Strike Force

TKO Wrestling said:


> History is history. MJF will be one of the reasons AEW is equal to WWE in 2030. They are playing the long game and it is working. TNA never drew 40% of RAWs audience on a weekly basis like AEW already is 5 months into this thing.
> 
> AEW is clearly building its own world of fans and MJF will be the biggest thing since sliced bread once he perfects his craft. *You guys are neglecting that MJFs segments are drawing also, his go up just like Mox, Jericho, & Cody. You should not ignore that. The kid is legit.*


History is history? OK. Neat. I'll stick with history and the odds, you stick with hope, and we'll see who's right.  Don't get it twisted - I'm rooting for AEW, but I'm a businessman and I tend to use hard data and past performance to predict what's coming. I haven't been given reason to deviate. Not yet.


----------



## omaroo

They ain't going to sell out in every city. Not now markets work.

If they get good crowds that's all you can ask for.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Strike Force said:


> History is history? OK. Neat. I'll stick with history and the odds, you stick with hope, and we'll see who's right.  Don't get it twisted - I'm rooting for AEW, but I'm a businessman and I tend to use hard data and past performance to predict what's coming. I haven't been given reason to deviate. Not yet.


I do too, I just don't see anything historically similar in quality to what AEW is doing. AEW sells PPVs, WCW and especially TNA didnt. AEW moves merch, makes it a priority, the others didnt even come close. I have no doubt that the new action figure toy line will do better than all WCW or TNA toys did. And then ofcourse their video game will need to be a home run, TNAs sucked. WCW had a GREAT game which was super popular. AEW will need to do the same thing. All of these things add up.


----------



## 304418

If it’s a bad market, then it’s a bad market. It’s not like its NYC, LA or Chicago.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> None of them are. But the fans who want to watch Jericho and Mox are already watching. Fans knowing Stunt might get a roll up on Jericho have already switched off. They have been sitting at around 900k viewers for months now, so bringing in a Matt Hardy, who according to twitter has 1.4 million followers will get them closer to a million viewers. It's all about promotion and having those star wrestlers promote them will bring in fans


It seems strange to me that AEW’s fate is tied to mid card hires who casuals probably don’t even know exist.

The reason AEW isn’t drawing 1M isn’t because of people like Stunt and Alllin are turning people off. It’s because they only have one or two familiar faces the mainstream fan recognizes and cares about. I mean do you honestly think Moxley has some special quality that Omega doesn’t?

The outlier here is Cody. I don’t think he was so recognizable not to have to put in work to become a draw. He’s been the most consistent in putting out good segments, and it’s been paying off. I think a fair amount of the guys you mentioned would benefit from that type of approach.


----------



## Strike Force

TKO Wrestling said:


> I do too, I just don't see anything historically similar in quality to what AEW is doing. AEW sells PPVs, WCW and especially TNA didnt. AEW moves merch, makes it a priority, the others didnt even come close. I have no doubt that the new action figure toy line will do better than all WCW or TNA toys did. And then ofcourse their video game will need to be a home run, TNAs sucked. WCW had a GREAT game which was super popular. AEW will need to do the same thing. All of these things add up.


Other than PPV, you're focusing on secondary revenue streams. AEW can have the best merchandise, toys, video games, and so on, but if there isn't widespread interest in that "AEW" stamp on the box, it doesn't really mean much. Now, those things are CRUCIAL once you've got the audience, but as of right now, AEW's audience is just a fraction of WWE's, so you can expect their ancillary products to be fractional as well. 

Again, I qualify all this by saying that I WANT AEW to do well. I like their product and think that it's usually superior to Raw and Smackdown. People just need to not get ahead of themselves.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> I mean do you honestly think Moxley has some special quality that Omega doesn’t?


Yes, it's called "charisma."


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> Yes, it's called "charisma."


Kenny isn’t just some no name. He has a proven track record and is no less charismatic than Mox.


----------



## domotime2

and yet I can't get a good ticket for the NJ show for under $100. Entire lower bowl is sold out. Whatcha gonna do.


----------



## Dark Emperor

TKO Wrestling said:


> History is history. MJF will be one of the reasons AEW is equal to WWE in 2030. They are playing the long game and it is working. TNA never drew 40% of RAWs audience on a weekly basis like AEW already is 5 months into this thing.
> 
> AEW is clearly building its own world of fans and MJF will be the biggest thing since sliced bread once he perfects his craft. You guys are neglecting that MJFs segments are drawing also, his go up just like Mox, Jericho, & Cody. You should not ignore that. The kid is legit.


Hahaha bullshit. If MJF ever got super popular and mega star, it'd be because he's in WWE and on a larger platform. 

He's personally too short and not larger than life to be the type of star you're talking about anyway. But time will tell.


----------



## DOTL

Dark Emperor said:


> Hahaha bullshit. If MJF ever got super popular and mega star, it'd be because he's in WWE and on a larger platform.
> 
> He's personally too short and not larger than life to be the type of star you're talking about anyway. But time will tell.


No one in WWE is super popular. You can make the argument that Mox is benefiting in a way WWE wrestlers can’t because of the ability to be himself. Meanwhile in WWE their biggest merch seller is getting squashed by a man who breaks a sweat just walking down the ramp.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> Kenny isn’t just some no name. He has a proven track record and *is no less charismatic than Mox*.


He is.

He's also just a very nerdy guy by nature, and it comes across in everything he does, regardless of what character he's playing. I don't watch NJPW, but I've seen videos of his character from over there, and despite getting strong praise from a few hardcore fans as his best work, it's something that would appeal only to a very specific and small audience in Japan. The calls for him to return to that role are misguided, because it would fall flat in North America. But yet, his current character isn't connecting either.

Whereas a guy like MJF, who was known by far fewer people than Omega prior to the start of Dynamite, has already become a bigger draw than Kenny, simply because of his charisma.


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> He is.
> 
> He's also just a very nerdy guy by nature, and it comes across in everything he does, regardless of what character he's playing. I don't watch NJPW, but I've seen videos of his character from over there, and despite getting strong praise from a few hardcore fans as his best work, it's something that would appeal only to a very specific and small audience in Japan. The calls for him to return to that role are misguided, because it would fall flat in North America. But yet, his current character isn't connecting either.
> 
> Whereas a guy like MJF, who was known by far fewer people than Omega prior to the start of Dynamite, has already become a bigger draw than Kenny, simply because of his charisma.


If you haven’t seen much of his work in NJPW you can’t really speak to how charismatic Omega is. One of his criticisms is that he hasn’t been operating at that same level since AEW started.

MJF is drawing partially because he’s been in the best executes story thread in AEW since it started. Cody’s. Remember when MJF was in the periphery? I do.


----------



## rbl85

They sold 2.800 tickets for next week.

In the previous weeks some shows had less tickets sold 5 days before the show than this one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All shall be well ?


----------



## Dark Emperor

DOTL said:


> N
> 
> No one in WWE is super popular. You can make the argument that Mox is benefiting in a way WWE wrestlers can’t because of the ability to be himself. Meanwhile in WWE their biggest merchant seller is getting squashed by a man who breaks a sweat just walking down the ramp.


If Mox was so popular and a mega star compared to his WWE days, the show won't be drawing just 800k-925k rating. 

Face it, no one is gonna become a mega star on AEW with that kind of viewership. Everything people are saying about MJF now is the same crap we heard about Omega 3years ago in NJPW. 

But the truth is, you can't be a mega star outside WWE unless you get same viewership and reach as them.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> If you haven’t seen much of his work in NJPW you can’t really speak to how charismatic Omega is. One of his criticisms is that he hasn’t been operating at that same level since AEW started.
> 
> MJF is drawing partially because he’s been in the best executes story thread in AEW since it started. Cody’s. Remember when MJF was in the periphery? I do.


I saw enough to know where he stands. He's a guy who people consider a good worker, but who will never reach super stardom because he doesn't have the personality for it.

MJF just needed to get in front of an audience, and the rest would follow. I don't buy that this feud is why he's drawing more than Omega. Omega was involved in the most high profile feud (the one against Moxley) in AEW, up until Moxley/Jericho superseded it. Moxley got a lot of eyes on Omega on TV, on YouTube, and on PPV. Kenny wasn't able to do anything with it. He's still losing a ton of viewers in his segments.

MJF has earned a title reign before Omega with his exceptional work. The company would be smart to give it to him.


----------



## DOTL

Dark Emperor said:


> If Mox was so popular and a mega star compared to his WWE days, the show won't be drawing just 800k-925k rating.
> 
> Face it, no one is gonna become a mega star on AEW with that kind of viewership. Everything people are saying about MJF now is the same crap we heard about Omega 3years ago in NJPW.
> 
> But the truth is, you can't be a mega star outside WWE unless you get same viewership and reach as them.


You missed the point. WWE doesn’t make mega stars period. In fact, that’s one of it’s major problems it’s having.

Mox is in a position to become one though because he isn’t being booked like crap.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

So you think 10 years from now that AEW will still only be at 40% or Raw? Nothing will change? AEW is not going to ever gain and WWE is not going to ever lose? Vince isn’t going to eventually sell it or die? Steph or HHH can keep it as big? MJF will never be a star? Hangman? Wardlow? Countless others?

what are tonight’s lotto numbers?


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Omega and Page never opened with 900K or 1M


They did. Bryan alvarez even mentionned it, I will find the source. And send it
Edit: well it didnt take much time. There are other examples of them opening at 900k but I took the one million one because tit justifies my point. Or maybe I am dreaming and lost my ability to read or reddit is working me. However here it is 

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/emnfx7


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> Hahaha bullshit. If MJF ever got super popular and mega star, it'd be because he's in WWE and on a larger platform.
> 
> He's personally too short and not larger than life to be the type of star you're talking about anyway. But time will tell.


Conor & Mayweather make more money per fight than Wilder & Fury. Size means nothing - only to Vince


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> They did. Bryan alvarez even mentionned it, I will find the source. And send it
> Edit: well it didnt take much time. There are other examples of them opening at 900k but I took the one million one because tit justifies my point. Or maybe I am dreaming and lost my ability to read or reddit is working me. However here it is
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/emnfx7


Wait, you're trying to attribute that to Omega/Page? People tune into the beginning of a show without knowing what's on. Check what happened in the following quarter for the second half of their match. They lost 70,000 viewers. Par for the course for these guys. Most of their segments lose viewers.

AEW Dynamite & NXT On USA Segment-By-Segment Quarter Hour Ratings & Viewership For 1/8 Episodes | EWrestling


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> I saw enough to know where he stands. He's a guy who people consider a good worker, but who will never reach super stardom because he doesn't have the personality for it.


I'd argue that he already has. Is the western audience so different from the Japanese one that charisma doesn't translate? Okada and Naito come off as a big deal to me. I don't even speak their language.



> MJF just needed to get in front of an audience, and the rest would follow. I don't buy that this feud is why he's drawing more than Omega. Omega was involved in the most high profile feud (the one against Moxley) in AEW, up until Moxley/Jericho superseded it. Moxley got a lot of eyes on Omega on TV, on YouTube, and on PPV. Kenny wasn't able to do anything with it. He's still losing a ton of viewers in his segments.


You're comparing apples and oranges. MJF has barely wrestled but has done so much character work that people know who he is. Cody hasn't wrestled all that much but has done so much character work people know who he is. Mox has done a lot of character work and benefited greatly from stuff people already knew about him. Jericho is self-explanatory.

What character work has Kenny done?

Even now, Page is the one doing most of the emotional leg work. It's no coincidence that MJF was doing very little character work when he was on the sidelines as opposed to now. However, on both cases he wrestled just about as often. Which is nearly 0 matches.

Wake me up when Kenny has a character driven story and then loses viewership.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

As long as they keep putting on good shows, curbstomping NXT and having crowds actually into the shows I am happy.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

AEWMoxley said:


> He is.
> 
> He's also just a very nerdy guy by nature, and it comes across in everything he does, regardless of what character he's playing. I don't watch NJPW, but I've seen videos of his character from over there, and despite getting strong praise from a few hardcore fans as his best work, it's something that would appeal only to a very specific and small audience in Japan. The calls for him to return to that role are misguided, because it would fall flat in North America. But yet, his current character isn't connecting either.
> 
> Whereas a guy like MJF, who was known by far fewer people than Omega prior to the start of Dynamite, has already become a bigger draw than Kenny, simply because of his charisma.


Omega isn't anything special - I was expecting big things from him and he's failed to deliver.
He needs a massive overhaul he can start with changing is entrance music and acting less geeky.
Breaking away from the Elite would probably help as well.


----------



## DOTL

I'mTheGreatest said:


> Omega isn't anything special - I was expecting big things from him and he's failed to deliver.
> He needs a massive overhaul he can start with changing is entrance music and acting less geeky.
> Breaking away from the Elite would probably help as well.


Everything you say has to do with execution and booking.

It's coming off like when people say a WWE guy "isn't championship material" when Vince got them in a jester costume, or some such nonsense. The only way you can judge a person is when they are put in a position to succeed. But as far as AEW is concerned, Kenny has been taking a back seat on purpose.


----------



## patpat

DOTL said:


> I'd argue that he already has. Is the western audience so different from the Japanese one that charisma doesn't translate? Okada and Naito come off as a big deal to me. I don't even speak their language.
> 
> 
> 
> You're comparing apples and oranges. MJF has barely wrestled but has done so much character work that people know who he is. Cody hasn't wrestled all that much but has done so much character work people know who he is. Mox has done a lot of character work and benefited greatly from stuff people already knew about him. Jericho is self-explanatory.
> 
> What character work has Kenny done?
> 
> Even now, Page is the one doing most of the emotional leg work. It's no coincidence that MJF was doing very little character work when he was on the sidelines as opposed to now. However, on both cases he wrestled just about as often. Which is nearly 0 matches.
> 
> Wake me up when Kenny has a character driven story and then loses viewership.


The omega thing is absolutely blatant. He said it himself in his interview with meltzer, the way to go up and get yourself over is through segment and character work and all that. So no he isnt some idiot who think 5 stars make you a star it's not about the match ( it wont draw) but using them wisely to build an aura. He will do his emotional/story driven thing we will judge then, the dude literally won his first big match this week. Before that he took L in every big match. Give the dude time before starting to throw shit I would say 
The dude said it himself he was taking a seatback let's judge when he actually get a story focused on him and his character work.( last one was mox and even that was more about mox than him)


----------



## Cult03

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Kevin Owens ain't ever going to be a needle mover. Hardy would be a bigger get if they can seal that deal - his name has brand power from the last wrestling heyday. I have a feeling Bucks were big fans of the Broken Universe.


He would be if the needle was set lower like it is in AEW


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> It seems strange to me that AEW’s fate is tied to mid card hires who casuals probably don’t even know exist.
> 
> The reason AEW isn’t drawing 1M isn’t because of people like Stunt and Alllin are turning people off. It’s because they only have one or two familiar faces the mainstream fan recognizes and cares about. I mean do you honestly think Moxley has some special quality that Omega doesn’t?
> 
> The outlier here is Cody. I don’t think he was so recognizable not to have to put in work to become a draw. He’s been the most consistent in putting out good segments, and it’s been paying off. I think a fair amount of the guys you mentioned would benefit from that type of approach.


It's not the casuals that have switched off since the beginning though. Casuals have never watched Dynamite. After viewing the first few episodes and seeing what was happening with these dorks, the hardcore fans switched off. These guys aren't even mid card by the way. Stunt, Allin, Janella taking time off people with a fan base that don't make a mockery out of the industry would absolutely make people switch off.

Yes I absolutely think Mox has some special quality that Omega doesn't. Charisma, not being a massive dork helps too. Legitimacy as well.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> Kenny isn’t just some no name. He has a proven track record and is no less charismatic than Mox.


What the actual fuck.. We can't continue this conversation. Go watch an Omega promo and tell me he's not an awkward weirdo with a straight face. His pre-rehearsed, terribly acted promos suck.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Conor & Mayweather make more money per fight than Wilder & Fury. Size means nothing - only to Vince


Did you miss the larger than life part? It was a pretty important aspect to his argument that you completely avoided. This is why your side always loses debates on here


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> It's not the casuals that have switched off since the beginning though. Casuals have never watched Dynamite. After viewing the first few episodes and seeing what was happening with these dorks, the hardcore fans switched off. These guys aren't even mid card by the way. Stunt, Allin, Janella taking time off people with a fan base that don't make a mockery out of the industry would absolutely make people switch off.


Which is it? Is AEW something only Hardcores can appreciate or is it something that's not gaining traction with them?

Anyway, Stunt is a part of a group that is fairly over, and actually drew on one a occasion if I remember correctly. Janella haunts Dark and rarely has a match on the main show, and Allin usually faced the draws in your Cody's, Jericho's, and Moxleys, but is currently feuding with a guy that's closer to his level on the card. At what point do these guys get featured enough to lose a million people?



> Yes I absolutely think Mox has some special quality that Omega doesn't. Charisma, not being a massive dork helps too. Legitimacy as well.


I've already made my case that AEW is not a fair place to show how much charisma Omega has and that NJPW has given us examples as to why this argument is a nonstarter. So I don't need to go further on that.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> What the actual fuck.. We can't continue this conversation. Go watch an Omega promo and tell me he's not an awkward weirdo with a straight face. His pre-rehearsed, terribly acted promos suck.


But what are the results? Did he flop in Japan?


----------



## RapShepard

These are only bad looking due to the hype if intial sellouts


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> Which is it? Is AEW something only Hardcores can appreciate or is it something that's not gaining traction with them?
> 
> Anyway, Stunt is a part of a group that is fairly over, and actually drew on one a occasion if I remember correctly. Janella haunts Dark and rarely has a match on the main show, and Allin usually faced the draws in your Cody's, Jericho's, and Moxleys, but is currently feuding with a guy that's closer to his level on the card. At what point do these guys get featured enough to lose a million people?
> 
> 
> I've already made my case that AEW is not a fair place to show how much charisma Omega has and that NJPW has given us examples as to why this argument is a nonstarter. So I don't need to go further on that.


First of all, you're not even debating my points and going off on tangents.

Second of all, Kenny wasn't charismatic in NJPW either. Saying "Goodbye and good night" isn't charismatic. It's a boring, rehearsed, overdone promo. He's basically Billy Gunn


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> First of all, you're not even debating my points and going off on tangents.
> 
> Second of all, Kenny wasn't charismatic in NJPW either. Saying "Goodbye and good night" isn't charismatic. It's a boring, rehearsed, overdone promo. He's basically Billy Gunn


The entirety of your point was predicated on something I'm arguing isn't even happening in the first place. Neither Janella or Allin are on enough to take shine off of anyone or make anyone switch off. And as for Stunt, to say he's taking light away from more deserving people is saying that Jungle Express is taking shine from more deserving people. Being a group you can literally add more people to, the point makes no sense unles you consider the unit. Stunt is a sucky example anyway because he's drawn at least once before.

As for Omega, that's a matter of opinion, and opinion that quite a few people in Japan didn't share. I don't think Japanese people are so different that they don't know who's charismatic and who isn't, but whatevs.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> The entirety of your point was predicated on something I'm arguing isn't even happening in the first place. Neither Janella or Allin are on enough to take shine off of anyone or make anyone switch off. And as for Stunt, to say he's taking light away from more deserving people is saying that Jungle Express is taking shine from more deserving people. Being a group you can literally add more people to, the point makes no sense. Stunt is a sucky example anyway because he's drawn at least once before.
> 
> As for Omega, that's a matter of opinion, and opinion that quite a few people in Japan didn't share. I don't think Japanese people are so different that they don't know who's charismatic and who isn't, but whatevs.


Janella was on for weeks with Sabian, Allin gets the blackout return treatment and Stunt is taking light away from A Boy and his Dinosaur every time he appears with them. Stunt getting near falls on Jericho was the worst thing this company has done and I guarantee it made people switch off. He has not drawn, the people around him has drawn viewers but Stunt has not drawn anything. This is the problem with people who take ratings seriously. They legitimately do not matter to anyone other than advertisers in 2020, but that's off topic. 

Being charismatic in Japan is very different to being charismatic in the West. I walk the streets there with my light hair and blue eyes and I'm the center of attention for hours on end. I do the same in the US or Australia and I'm just a guy. Remember how much lighter Kenny's hair was in Japan?


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> Janella was on for weeks with Sabian, Allin gets the blackout return treatment and Stunt is taking light away from A Boy and his Dinosaur every time he appears with them. Stunt getting near falls on Jericho was the worst thing this company has done and I guarantee it made people switch off. He has not drawn, the people around him has drawn viewers but Stunt has not drawn anything. This is the problem with people who take ratings seriously. They legitimately do not matter to anyone other than advertisers in 2020, but that's off topic.
> 
> Being charismatic in Japan is very different to being charismatic in the West. I walk the streets there with my light hair and blue eyes and I'm the center of attention for hours on end. I do the same in the US or Australia and I'm just a guy. Remember how much lighter Kenny's hair was in Japan?


It's not off topic. It's relevant. You say they are costing AEW viewers how can they when A) Janella is on Dark most of the time, B) Allin is over with the fans and has only worked thus far with people you'd consider draws, and C) Marko has drawn in ratings, something you can deny but can't refute. If not use rating then what metric should we use then?

It really isn't. This isn't 1890. Japan has access to Western pop culture and has a good grasp on who's larger than life and who isn't. If just being white was enough why is Kenny the only westerner to ever win the G1?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Did you miss the larger than life part? It was a pretty important aspect to his argument that you completely avoided. This is why your side always loses debates on here


"side"

what do you think this is? ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I agree with Stunt and Janella being trash, id like to put Havoc in that conversation too, but Darby Allin has something that will appeal to a fan base. I can’t put him in that group. Sounds like you just don’t like him. Which is fine. He isnt for everyone. But he has value. The rest of them are trash.


----------



## DOTL

TKO Wrestling said:


> I agree with Stunt and Janella being trash, id like to put Havoc in that conversation too, but Darby Allin has something that will appeal to a fan base. I can’t put him in that group. Sounds like you just don’t like him. Which is fine. He isnt for everyone. But he has value. The rest of them are trash.


I'd go one step further and say you can dislike all three. But there's a difference between someone being "bad" and someone costing viewership.


----------



## bdon

Kenny has purposely not presented himself as a star to allow others time to establish their place on the card. Given Cody time to be the guy for a change after being a midcard guy to Kenny forever. So on and down forth.

Kenny is ramping up and will begin his rise soon enough. If he still loses attention when he begins story and character-driven work that isn’t part of putting someone else over as was the case with Mox, Pac, and Page, then we can talk.

I mean, hell, his match the other night had Twitter showing more positive wrestling takes than I’ve seen in a long while.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

As long as they are loud and into it I don't care. Would sellouts be good? of course but it's not the end of the world.


----------



## bdon

Random, but I bought tickets to the Rochester show. Should I be concerned about the Covid-19?


----------



## Peerless

So Mox and a random gained the most viewership ever for AEW and beat out Cody-Wardlow which was being promoted for a good month lol. If AEW doesn't put the title on him they're insane.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

bdon said:


> Random, but I bought tickets to the Rochester show. Should I be concerned about the Covid-19?


I wouldn't worry about it in Rochester just yet.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Here comes the Corona excuses lmao. Not that I care, Ive actually enjoyed their show the last month, but you guys make it so easy to troll.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Random, but I bought tickets to the Rochester show. Should I be concerned about the Covid-19?



No. Wash your hands, live your life.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Kenny has purposely not presented himself as a star to allow others time to establish their place on the card. Given Cody time to be the guy for a change after being a midcard guy to Kenny forever. So on and down forth.
> 
> Kenny is ramping up and will begin his rise soon enough. If he still loses attention when he begins story and character-driven work that isn’t part of putting someone else over as was the case with Mox, Pac, and Page, then we can talk.
> 
> I mean, hell, his match the other night had Twitter showing more positive wrestling takes than I’ve seen in a long while.


This is going really far into the weeds and still doesn't really explain why any of this would be happening. _Why_ do any of this? Why not just be as great as he can be at a critical stage for the company you work for? This idea for a "story" is rather meaningless.

And, no, Marko Stunt does not draw, lol. A few people watching a segment with a bunch of other stars and seeing the weird kid flossing and thinking "Ha! That is awfu!l" is not drawing. And if you "draw" once and no one comes back to see you, what does that make you?

It's very obvious what is working in AEW and what is not. We have actual data. It's Jericho, Moxley, Cody, MJF and Jungle Boy. The semi-serious acts. The other stuff is impeding them.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Did you miss the larger than life part? It was a pretty important aspect to his argument that you completely avoided. This is why your side always loses debates on here


Mjf's act not over the top enough for you?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This is going really far into the weeds and still doesn't really explain why any of this would be happening. _Why_ do any of this? Why not just be as great as he can be at a critical stage for the company you work for? This idea for a "story" is rather meaningless.
> 
> And, no, Marko Stunt does not draw, lol. A few people watching a segment with a bunch of other stars and seeing the weird kid flossing and thinking "Ha! That is awfu!l" is not drawing. And if you "draw" once and no one comes back to see you, what does that make you?
> 
> It's very obvious what is working in AEW and what is not. We have actual data. It's Jericho, Moxley, Cody, MJF and Jungle Boy. The semi-serious acts. The other stuff is impeding them.


The other stuff is undercard which you need to emphasis importance of your stars. You know nothing & just parrot Jim Cornette.


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

One day yall will go outside and realize that your wrestling opinion means absolutely nothing. People love folks like Darby allin and OC. Watch how the crowd pops their ass off tomorrow in his match against that bastard. 


People is not watching AEW and See Darby has a match with Jericho and never watch it again. The crowd goes nuts for him. But I been came to the conclusion that some of yall don't even watch the show to begin with so you wouldn't know that anyway 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

StreetProfitsfan said:


> One day yall will go outside and realize that your wrestling opinion means absolutely nothing. People love folks like Darby allin and OC. Watch how the crowd pops their ass off tomorrow in his match against that bastard.
> 
> 
> People is not watching AEW and See Darby has a match with Jericho and never watch it again. The crowd goes nuts for him. But I been came to the conclusion that some of yall don't even watch the show to begin with so you wouldn't know that anyway
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


they watch botchmania and listen to Cornette podcasts mate - that is about the extent of it


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> The other stuff is undercard which you need to emphasis importance of your stars. You know nothing & just parrot Jim Cornette.


You don't need ridiculous stuff to emphasize your stars. This is like saying that to impress a partner you _need_ someone else to make an ass of themselves in front of them so you look normal. You kind of get that emphasis on the major stuff is important, but don't understand _how_ to achieve that. A lot of the shitty stuff underneath actually _takes away_ from what they do. 



StreetProfitsfan said:


> One day yall will go outside and realize that your wrestling opinion means absolutely nothing. People love folks like Darby allin and OC. Watch how the crowd pops their ass off tomorrow in his match against that bastard.
> 
> 
> People is not watching AEW and See Darby has a match with Jericho and never watch it again. The crowd goes nuts for him. But I been came to the conclusion that some of yall don't even watch the show to begin with so you wouldn't know that anyway
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's very easy to say that someone's opinion means nothing. I can say it about yours too. 

Who loves folks like Darby Allin and Orange Cassidy? Not anyone I know. Not any former wrestling fans I know. They're not drawing. There's no evidence to back up this claim -- you just make it because it's your wrestling opinion, and by your own confession what is that worth? 

People need to get off the idea that popping these live crowds is necessarily a good thing. These are a very specific kind of fan. There are only so many of them, they have been spending money so far, but they're not guaranteed to travel and force themselves into this shit for long. Racists get cheered at racist rallies -- it doesn't mean that reaction is going to spread to folks outside it. You need to use other metrics and a bit of common sense and intuition to work out what appeals to a wider fan-base. That is how you are going to grow. 

I've used this analogy a lot, but if I went out in an AEW ring and I took a literal shit in the ring, I would get a GIANT pop if I got on the mic, gestured to it and said "WWE creative." They would cut to out of shape white people in the crowd tilting their heads back roaring with laughter. Anyone reading this _knows_ this is true. Those fans are not enough to get you through. When you are staring down less than 50k domestic buys for your PPVs, you have to ask how much targeting these fans, specifically, is worth to you. 

And people not watching the show, if that is true, is not a good thing for them either. It's not on fans to be loyalists and watch their TV blindly. It is up to AEW to produce TV that wrestling fans actually want to watch.


----------



## The Wood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> As long as they keep putting on good shows, curbstomping NXT and having crowds actually into the shows I am happy.


They're not "curbstomping" NXT and whether or not they are having good shows and have good crowds is subjective. If you enjoy that stuff, that's on you, but there have no doubt been hotter crowds and better shows. It's just where you draw your personal line for entertainment. 

No one is saying this is the end of the world, lol. AEW fans need to stop relying on that as a straw-man when people discuss this sort of stuff, which absolutely belongs on an AEW discussion board. AEW's momentum was largely based on perception. That perception gets altered when they start cooling off. You'll have fans that stick with them, but a lot of fans will move on when it's not a hot subject anymore. It will get harder and harder for them to draw once they've lost that initial groundswell that they didn't really capitalize on, no matter what anyone tells you (there would be actual evidence for this).


----------



## reyfan

To be fair it's WM season in WWE, alot more eyes on the product usually, doesn't mean the viewers are gone forever.


----------



## Strike Force

I like Omega, but those of you arguing he’s as charismatic as Moxley....oooof. That’s not the hill to die on, and that’s putting it nicely.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strike Force said:


> I like Omega, but those of you arguing he’s as charismatic as Moxley....oooof. That’s not the hill to die on, and that’s putting it nicely.


charisma is subjective and immeasurable

some people think somebody is a carismatic speaker, other people think the same guy is a blowhard

there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belongs in the same tier - then it all hinges on preference thereafter


----------



## NathanMayberry

domotime2 said:


> and yet I can't get a good ticket for the NJ show for under $100. Entire lower bowl is sold out. Whatcha gonna do.


Why are you lying? 


https://www1.ticketmaster.com/all-elite-wrestling/event/0000582ADD0C4991 The show isn't close to selling out and there are hundreds of $50 lower bowl seats and thousands of $20 seats available.


----------



## CRCC

I'm yet to understand why people wish AEW to fail, because people surely aren't hiding anymore.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop




----------



## domotime2

NathanMayberry said:


> Why are you lying?
> 
> 
> https://www1.ticketmaster.com/all-elite-wrestling/event/0000582ADD0C4991 The show isn't close to selling out and there are hundreds of $50 lower bowl seats and thousands of $20 seats available.


you linked me to Rochester. I said NJ. Geography and reading is difficult.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Yeah this is said every week and AEW still manage to sell out the majority.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> You missed the point. WWE doesn’t make mega stars period. In fact, that’s one of it’s major problems it’s having.
> 
> Mox is in a position to become one though because he isn’t being booked like crap.


He went from a show that got over 2 million to one that gets less than 1 million.

How is he in a better position to become a mega star with less people watching him?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Christ ..AEW is not cooling off ..they are getting the views and seats they should be ..selling merch ..just had a toyline announced and probably a video game soon if they weren't on the rise wwe wouldn't be scared to let anyone go or bribe places not to let them hold shows


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> So you think 10 years from now that AEW will still only be at 40% or Raw? Nothing will change? AEW is not going to ever gain and WWE is not going to ever lose? Vince isn’t going to eventually sell it or die? Steph or HHH can keep it as big? MJF will never be a star? Hangman? Wardlow? Countless others?
> 
> what are tonight’s lotto numbers?


How come you don't consider the possibility of AEW losing viewers?

The product is much less popular than it was 6 months to a year ago. DoN went from selling out in minutes to still not being sold out weeks later (which shouldn't be happening considering that TV is used to advertise live shows in Pro Wrestling) and that's their marquee show. They are running small venues with cheap ticket prices and still have only sold out 1 show (tonight) since their TV debut, with attendance for pretty much all their future shows besides DoN and NJ looking pretty dismal so far.


----------



## NathanMayberry

patpat said:


> The omega thing is absolutely blatant. He said it himself in his interview with meltzer, the way to go up and get yourself over is through segment and character work and all that. So no he isnt some idiot who think 5 stars make you a star it's not about the match ( it wont draw) but using them wisely to build an aura. He will do his emotional/story driven thing we will judge then, the dude literally won his first big match this week. Before that he took L in every big match. Give the dude time before starting to throw shit I would say
> The dude said it himself he was taking a seatback let's judge when he actually get a story focused on him and his character work.( last one was mox and even that was more about mox than him)


I don't watch New Japan, can you post a video of an Omega promo where he does what you're referring to in a promo?


----------



## Jagaver

NathanMayberry said:


> He went from a show that got over 2 million to one that gets less than 1 million.
> 
> How is he in a better position to become a mega star with less people watching him?


He's gone from having 2 million people watch him making dog poo jokes and jokes about crowds being smelly which he was forced to read, to having just under a million watch him do his own thing and play out his badass character as he wanted all along. Ideally he'd have the 2 million watching the latter character but that was never going to happen, so he has more chance of becoming a star in AEW, despite the lower numbers. You could have had 10 million watching his Vince scripted Dean Ambrose character and he would never have become a star.


----------



## Jagaver

Jagaver said:


> Yeah I'd agree with this. I'm a big AEW fan, desperately want them to succeed, but at the moment the show isn't what I thought it'd be, it's a bit confused. On the one hand there are the win loss records and rankings and occasional 'sports-like' presentation I thought I was getting, but there's also a lot of hokey stuff.
> 
> It really bothered me that they turned a Womens Title match into a bit of a joke this week, in their attempts to push the nightmare collective, which is terrible (in my opinion).
> 
> Definitely prepared to hang on and see where they develop things, and I accept it might not end up being what I was looking for (though they have pushed NXT to be better, which is good), but I don't think they'll succeed by trying to be all things to all people. I don't think you can promote a sometimes serious but sometimes very hokey comedy product and not end up diluting both.


I wrote this about two months ago, and I have to say they've really pulled me back in. Getting rid of the Nightmare Collective helped, but the way the major storylines have all developed since Christmas (Cody & MJF, Hangman & the Elite, Jericho & Moxley, Omega & PAC) has got me hooked again.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Omega and Pac feel like the absolute ideal upper mid carders.


NathanMayberry said:


> How come you don't consider the possibility of AEW losing viewers?
> 
> The product is much less popular than it was 6 months to a year ago. DoN went from selling out in minutes to still not being sold out weeks later (which shouldn't be happening considering that TV is used to advertise live shows in Pro Wrestling) and that's their marquee show. They are running small venues with cheap ticket prices and still have only sold out 1 show (tonight) since their TV debut, with attendance for pretty much all their future shows besides DoN and NJ looking pretty dismal so far.


Small venues lol? They are running a national tour and aren’t hitting Binge Halls. In 6 months. Ratings are stable. I mean what exactly did you expect? AEW is doing extremely well. Compare them to when Raw started and the venues they ran. Not a shot at WWE just a reality check.


----------



## Soul Rex

NathanMayberry said:


> He went from a show that got over 2 million to one that gets less than 1 million.
> 
> How is he in a better position to become a mega star with less people watching him?


Well, to answer your question, Moxley can become a mega star at part with AEW growing in viewership, if
Moxley is that good, he will make more people watch eventually, if AEW capitalizes on that, they will
become a bigger.

I am not saying this will or not happen, but this is the ideal scenario of him turning into a megastar, he would
help the company to get big, not the opposite.


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> He went from a show that got over 2 million to one that gets less than 1 million.
> 
> How is he in a better position to become a mega star with less people watching him?


Because AEW can always grow. But I don’t care how many people are watching you, you’ll never grow in a bad booking situation.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Jagaver said:


> He's gone from having 2 million people watch him making dog poo jokes and jokes about crowds being smelly which he was forced to read, to having just under a million watch him do his own thing and play out his badass character as he wanted all along. Ideally he'd have the 2 million watching the latter character but that was never going to happen, so he has more chance of becoming a star in AEW, despite the lower numbers. You could have had 10 million watching his Vince scripted Dean Ambrose character and he would never have become a star.


So what exactly is going to make him a star? 

What I mean by that is, what is the objective metric that is going to determine that he is a star?


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> So what exactly is going to make him a star?
> 
> What I mean by that is, what is the objective metric that is going to determine that he is a star?


Having 0 poo jokes for starters. How’s that for a metric?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Soul Rex said:


> Well, to answer your question, Moxley can become a mega star at part with AEW growing in viewership, if
> Moxley is that good, he will make more people watch eventually, if AEW capitalizes on that, they will
> become a bigger.
> 
> I am not saying this will or not happen, but this is the ideal scenario of him turning into a megastar, he would
> help the company to get big, not the opposite.


So how exactly is this going to happen? 

Moxley and AEW peaked at Double or Nothing last year: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=/m/027wknh,aew and have been in a downward trend since despite allegedly having the best wrestling shows in decades. 

By your same argument can't someone say that because AEW is not growing in viewership that he isn't a star?


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Omega and Pac feel like the absolute ideal upper mid carders.
> 
> 
> Small venues lol? They are running a national tour and aren’t hitting Binge Halls. In 6 months. Ratings are stable. I mean what exactly did you expect? AEW is doing extremely well. Compare them to when Raw started and the venues they ran. Not a shot at WWE just a reality check.


They mostly run in venues that would be used for House shows and sell tickets at low prices.

AEW has only been around for 6 months on TV so you can't really say ratings are stable without having a YoY to compare it to, same goes for attendance. 

You can't just look at things in absolutes and say they are good. If you looked at Raw or the WWE that way, you would say its viewership is fantastic and that the WWE is doing extremely well. Yet we know that is not the case because we can compare things to how they were 5 years ago or even last year. 

The only such comparison we can make for AEW thus far is with DoN 2019 to DoN 2020. And for that single show interest and ticket sales are down.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> Having 0 poo jokes for starters. How’s that for a metric?


Sure.. but to many, a grown-ass man wearing an eye patch is just as dumb as that man making poo jokes.


----------



## Strike Force

LifeInCattleClass said:


> charisma is subjective and immeasurable
> 
> some people think somebody is a carismatic speaker, other people think the same guy is a blowhard
> 
> there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belongs in the same tier - then it all hinges on preference thereafter


“Charisma is subjective and immeasurable...there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belong in the same tier.”

The same person wrote both those sentences. Most of you aren’t even trying anymore, or if this is what trying looks like, that might be even sadder.


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> Sure.. but to many, a grown-ass man wearing an eye patch is just as dumb as that man making poo jokes.


If he kayfabe got his eye poked then walking around like he’s dandy would’ve been dumb.


----------



## kingfrass44

LifeInCattleClass said:


> charisma is subjective and immeasurable
> 
> some people think somebody is a carismatic speaker, other people think the same guy is a blowhard
> 
> there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belongs in the same tier - then it all hinges on preference thereafter


charisma not subjective and immeasurable
no denying that Mox and Kenny belongs in Not same tier They are not with the exception of a minority


----------



## kingfrass44

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they watch botchmania and listen to Cornette podcasts mate - that is about the extent of it


I do not know Cornette 
You do not live outside a bubble


----------



## The Wood

CRCC said:


> I'm yet to understand why people wish AEW to fail, because people surely aren't hiding anymore.


I don't think it's so much they _want_ it to fail as they've accepted what it is, and that disappoints them. 



domotime2 said:


> you linked me to Rochester. I said NJ. Geography and reading is difficult.


The bigger story is that you can throw a stick and hit a show that isn't selling. You talking exceptions proves the rule. 



optikk sucks said:


> Yeah this is said every week and AEW still manage to sell out the majority.


Citation needed. I was going to let this one go, but I'm going to call it. I honestly don't know either way: Does AEW sell out the majority of their shows now? Lately it _seems_ I've heard about them being at about 50 or 60% capacity. That's not selling out. I'm happy to be wrong about this, but if you're going to make claims like this, back them up. 



Botchy SinCara said:


> Christ ..AEW is not cooling off ..they are getting the views and seats they should be ..selling merch ..just had a toyline announced and probably a video game soon if they weren't on the rise wwe wouldn't be scared to let anyone go or bribe places not to let them hold shows


They are definitely cooling off. I've never heard of the toy company they got a deal with. Maybe they are as huge as a Mattel, Hasbro or Jakks-Pacific? WWE are not scared of letting anyone go. They're scared of setting a precedent and having awkward conversations with board members when,say, Kevin Steen asks for his WWE release and is not granted it whereas Zack Ryder was. Their new policy seems to be to let people go as their contracts are expiring or if they are up there in age. You might see Eric Young and Tamina released this year if they ask for it.


----------



## Soul Rex

NathanMayberry said:


> So how exactly is this going to happen?
> 
> Moxley and AEW peaked at Double or Nothing last year: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=/m/027wknh,aew and have been in a downward trend since despite allegedly having the best wrestling shows in decades.
> 
> By your same argument can't someone say that because AEW is not growing in viewership that he isn't a star?


Technically your question wasn't to me, because I wasn't arguing about him becoming a mega star or not, I just told you what he needed to do for it so to happen.

But I will answer anyways, AEW is not growing in viewership per se, but they are making ground and slowly joining pieces to do it, its too soon to know what will happen, but they should get better this year because they are making things right, apparently with the company and with Moxley per se.

As good as Moxley can be and as good as AEW can be, wrestling image has been so demaged worldwide by WWE durng the past decade that it will take some to turn casuals in fans again.. I don't believe it's impossible, specially if AEW continues correctly booking Moxley as the second coming of Stone Cold Steve Austin. (In my opinion they should give him much more promo time).


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The Wood said:


> They're not "curbstomping" NXT and whether or not they are having good shows and have good crowds is subjective. If you enjoy that stuff, that's on you, but there have no doubt been hotter crowds and better shows. It's just where you draw your personal line for entertainment.
> 
> No one is saying this is the end of the world, lol. AEW fans need to stop relying on that as a straw-man when people discuss this sort of stuff, which absolutely belongs on an AEW discussion board. AEW's momentum was largely based on perception. That perception gets altered when they start cooling off. You'll have fans that stick with them, but a lot of fans will move on when it's not a hot subject anymore. It will get harder and harder for them to draw once they've lost that initial groundswell that they didn't really capitalize on, no matter what anyone tells you (there would be actual evidence for this).


They have won the ratings war every week except December 18th and that was when AEW had a record low rating demo, viewership and weekly cable ranking. You are one of those folks who thinks that AEW is 10% less and NXT gets 10% more than they really are. 

Even a lot of people who were putting NXT's nuts in their mouth are even changing course.


----------



## NathanMayberry

domotime2 said:


> you linked me to Rochester. I said NJ. Geography and reading is difficult.


You're right. My apologies.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> charisma is subjective and immeasurable
> 
> some people think somebody is a carismatic speaker, other people think the same guy is a blowhard
> 
> there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belongs in the same tier - then it all hinges on preference thereafter


So which is it? Is charisma subjective and immeasurable or do Mox and Kenny objectively belong in the same tier? 

And you can definitely measure the effects of charisma. There is no denying that The Rock is charismatic. You can look at business under him and his appeal as the biggest star in Hollywood. You can definitely say that Mitsuharu Misawa was charismatic. He beat Jumbo Tsuruta and there were 200+ sellouts for All Japan afterwards. It's tricky with Kenny Omega because the data isn't there to support it. 



NathanMayberry said:


> He went from a show that got over 2 million to one that gets less than 1 million.
> 
> How is he in a better position to become a mega star with less people watching him?


This is the logic a lot of wrestling fans online just refuse to accept. These are the same people who talked about Matt Hardy being the "hottest act" in wrestling back when 300,000 people watched TNA every week. 



Jagaver said:


> He's gone from having 2 million people watch him making dog poo jokes and jokes about crowds being smelly which he was forced to read, to having just under a million watch him do his own thing and play out his badass character as he wanted all along. Ideally he'd have the 2 million watching the latter character but that was never going to happen, so he has more chance of becoming a star in AEW, despite the lower numbers. You could have had 10 million watching his Vince scripted Dean Ambrose character and he would never have become a star.


There were moments in WWE where Dean Ambrose was treated more seriously than he currently is in AEW now. And that credibility is what has carried over into his performances. That is coupled with the "Not WWE Factor." 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Omega and Pac feel like the absolute ideal upper mid carders.
> 
> 
> Small venues lol? They are running a national tour and aren’t hitting Binge Halls. In 6 months. Ratings are stable. I mean what exactly did you expect? AEW is doing extremely well. Compare them to when Raw started and the venues they ran. Not a shot at WWE just a reality check.


Raw started in 1993. The internet was not a thing in people's homes yet. They couldn't just click to get tickets to things. They were also laying the groundwork for national expansion. TV back then was designed to advertise house shows and PPVs. Have a look at the month of January for them in 1993:





__





WWF Results 1993







oswreview.com





Those records are incomplete, but when you add what is there (paid), you get 126,465 fans for the month of January. If you want a reality check, then you have to accept what Raw actually was and what it was for. 



DOTL said:


> Having 0 poo jokes for starters. How’s that for a metric?


I'm a star and I think you're full of poo with that one. I wonder what The Rock thinks? It's not like he would ever use a poo joke. 

Dean Ambrose got insufferable towards the end of his WWE run. People were _hungry_ for a heel turn and I told them to be careful what you wish for...

But to deny that Ambrose's biggest and best run in wrestling hasn't been his Shield and singles run until he shot himself in the foot circa 2016 is pretty insane. He's still dining out on that so he can be the Lunatic Fringe in AEW.


----------



## patpat

Dont know where to throw this but are getting the first numbers for aew's figurine merch sales. 
Nothing out of ordinary in temr of sales except for Jericho not being the #1


----------



## The Wood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> They have won the ratings war every week except December 18th and that was when AEW had a record low rating demo, viewership and weekly cable ranking. You are one of those folks who thinks that AEW is 10% less and NXT gets 10% more than they really are.
> 
> Even a lot of people who were putting NXT's nuts in their mouth are even changing course.


No, I don't think that at all. You are clearly one of those folks that makes up things to put in people's mouth so you can smack away points they haven't made.

There has been no victor in any sort of ratings war right now. Both shows are clocking very comparable numbers. Both shows would use those numbers and add 10% to try and negotiate better deals with TV networks. But to call something so malleable as the AEW ratings a definitive victory is, frankly, ignorant. That's just not how ratings work or what they mean.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> If he kayfabe got his eye poked then walking around like he’s dandy would’ve been dumb.


Eventually, though, your eye heals...He's sold his eye injury longer than Santana did. Right now, its become a gimmick and they're selling merch for it. 


What about that is cool?


----------



## AEW_19

Some cities won't do well. That's the reality of it. This is the time for finding out the places that draw well. Take it on the chin and move on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strike Force said:


> “Charisma is subjective and immeasurable...there’s no denying that Mox and Kenny belong in the same tier.”
> 
> The same person wrote both those sentences. Most of you aren’t even trying anymore, or if this is what trying looks like, that might be even sadder.


a tier is a range where multiple things that are similar can sit

I’m saying they are in the same tier / but from there on it becomes ‘preference‘ and ‘immeasurable’

Just as polar opinions like ‘who is the best, hogan, rock, scsa...’ and so on. At some point you can’t argue anymore - they are all top tier, and whomever is on the tippy top in your head comes down to personal preference


----------



## Chan Hung

Doesnt look like they're doing so bad


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> Eventually, though, your eye heals...He's sold his eye injury longer than Santana did. Right now, its become a gimmick and they're selling merch for it.
> 
> 
> What about that is cool?


Lol, holy shit, is that really the case? Wow. 

Does the eye even come into play during his matches. A very hard injury to sell with a modern style. I can see a lot of fans being underwhelmed by a match built around working the eye. And Moxley has never had the best psychology anyway.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just hitting all the cities that only does well never opens up a new market

they’ve got to take some punts

right after a PPV is questionable - but still....


----------



## FatAbomination

Google trends looking very strong for this show, quite a bit up from Full Gear from what I remember.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> I'm a star and I think you're full of poo with that one. I wonder what The Rock thinks? It's not like he would ever use a poo joke.


Here I thought the Rock was a star because of his ability to cut his own promos, his personal charisma, and his good gimmick. But thanks to you I now know it’s because of doody jokes.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Here I thought the Rock was a star because of his ability to cut his own promos, his personal charisma, and his good gimmick. But thanks to you I now know it’s because of doody jokes.


I didn't say he was a star because of them. I just pointed out that they didn't disqualify him from being a star, and that not making them didn't make him a star, like you suggested. If you're going to suggest that The Rock overcame bad material because of his promo ability, charisma and gimmick then maybe Dean Ambrose should have taken some pointers?


----------



## NathanMayberry

FatAbomination said:


> Google trends looking very strong for this show, quite a bit up from Full Gear from what I remember.





https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=aew%20full%20gear,aew%20revolution,aew



It's hard say right now. But the product was hotter before Full Gear than it is now.


----------



## FatAbomination

NathanMayberry said:


> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=aew%20full%20gear,aew%20revolution,aew
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard say right now. But the product was hotter before Full Gear than it is now.


Before Full Gear, they were still riding the novelty of being relatively new, not necessarily a fair comparison. Post Full Gear into December is where they really fell off, so they've recovered very strongly if you compare November/December into January/February.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> I didn't say he was a star because of them. I just pointed out that they didn't disqualify him from being a star, and that not making them didn't make him a star, like you suggested. If you're going to suggest that The Rock overcame bad material because of his promo ability, charisma and gimmick then maybe Dean Ambrose should have taken some pointers?


You know what happened to the Rock before he got good material? He got booed. There’s a difference between using the word “poo” after already being over and having a poo joke centered character.


----------



## Cult03

CRCC said:


> I'm yet to understand why people wish AEW to fail, because people surely aren't hiding anymore.


Who wants AEW to fail? Respond to the person who wants it to fail and I'll continue to respond positively to those who want AEW to be better


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You know what happened to the Rock before he got good material? He got booed. There’s a difference between using the word “poo” after already being over and having a poo joke centered character.


So what you're saying is that Dean Ambrose wasn't over after six years on the main roster? Okay.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> So what you're saying is that Dean Ambrose wasn't over after six years on the main roster? Okay.


No. He was over inspite of WWE. Now he can be over because what he’s doing is actually good.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> No. He was over inspite of WWE. Now he can be over because what he’s doing is actually good.


Except that "good" is subjective. His stuff plays uncannily like WWE stuff to me. Not so much the exact stuff at the end, but everything else from Zany Dean Ambrose. So I would debate that it is really that noticeably better or different. And he's playing to much, much, MUCH smaller audience.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Except that "good" is subjective. His stuff plays uncannily like WWE stuff to me. Not so much the exact stuff at the end, but everything else from Zany Dean Ambrose. So I would debate that it is really that noticeably better or different. And he's playing to much, much, MUCH smaller audience.


Good might be subjective, but having creative control and being in an environment conducive to good creative decisions is objectively good. Having on old out of touch man dictate your words will not get you over.


----------



## Chan Hung

Edit


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Good might be subjective, but having creative control and being in an environment conducive to good creative decisions is objectively good. Having on old out of touch man dictate your words will not get you over.


Having creative control is not objectively good. How good was that for WCW? How good is that for AEW with guys like Joey Janela popping up and saying "Fuck Jim Cornette!" randomly in matches on your fucking specials?


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Having creative control is not objectively good. How good was that for WCW? How good is that for AEW with guys like Joey Janela popping up and saying "Fuck Jim Cornette!" randomly in matches on your fucking specials?


The alternative is a tone deaf tyrant telling people what to say whether it’s good or not. It’s the creative control of one. At least “Creative control” in this sense means that is democratized. That’s better for the simple fact that the entire show doesn’t hinge on a single (terrible) vision. If something sucks, so what? Change it. There’s no single person dictating every word, every angle.

And oooh Cornette got cursed. And?


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> Sure.. but to many, a grown-ass man wearing an eye patch is just as dumb as that man making poo jokes.


Well, this didn’t age well.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> Well, this didn’t age well.


The fact that he wasn't even hurt makes the whole eye patch thing even dumber. 

What exactly was the point of it?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NathanMayberry said:


> The fact that he wasn't even hurt makes the whole eye patch thing even dumber.
> 
> What exactly was the point of it?


Umm to give him something to combat the Inner Circles perceived advantage. I mean do you even watch Dynamite/AEW? Pretty obvious why he did it.


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> The fact that he wasn't even hurt makes the whole eye patch thing even dumber.
> 
> What exactly was the point of it?


Would you have preferred gauze? He had that too.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> The alternative is a tone deaf tyrant telling people what to say whether it’s good or not. It’s the creative control of one. At least “Creative control” in this sense means that is democratized. That’s better for the simple fact that the entire show doesn’t hinge on a single (terrible) vision. If something sucks, so what? Change it. There’s no single person dictating every word, every angle.
> 
> And oooh Cornette got cursed. And?


No, the alternative is not that. It's not one or the other. This is a completely false paradigm apologists use to defend anything they want. 

The point is that it's bad television, it's bad leadership, it's too much freedom for talent who don't know how to use it. This is what people meant when they said "inmates running the asylum" when it came to WCW. 



DOTL said:


> Well, this didn’t age well.


How did that ending make any sense?


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> No, the alternative is not that. It's not one or the other. This is a completely false paradigm apologists use to defend anything they want.
> 
> The point is that it's bad television, it's bad leadership, it's too much freedom for talent who don't know how to use it. This is what people meant when they said "inmates running the asylum" when it came to WCW.


No one said you couldn’t do a good show with a single creative head. I said having VINCE as a creative head was the alternative as it was for Mox or anyone else in the indies.

I’ve heard a lot of things lobbed at WCW. But giving it’s roster too much creative control ain’t one of them. Look at Austin’s ECW promo and tell me if that was the case for him. You see, there’s a difference between individuals having creative freedom for their own characters and giving top guys the book. The former is the wrestler doing his job, the latter is just an oligarchy. It’s literally the same problem WWE is having now, except with a few more people.

It’s funny you talk as if creative control over one’s character precludes editorial power but a single guy micromanaging everything doesn’t.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> No one said you couldn’t do a good show with a single creative head. I said having VINCE as a creative head was the alternative as it was for Mox or anyone else in the indies.
> 
> I’ve heard a lot of things lobbed at WCW. But giving it’s roster too much creative control ain’t one of them. Look at Austin’s ECW promo and tell me if that was the case for him. You see, there’s a difference between individuals having creative freedom for their own characters and giving top guys the book. The former is the wrestler doing his job, the latter is just an oligarchy. It’s literally the same problem WWE is having now, except with a few more people.
> 
> It’s funny you talk as if creative control over one’s character precludes editorial power but a single guy micromanaging everything doesn’t.


God, can you stay on topic for one conversation, please? You said not making poo jokes is a metric of being a star. You got called out for it. You are wrong.

Your other points aren’t worth engaging with. They are off-topic. Everyone knows what creative control did to WCW. No one said anything about Austin. Creative people being creative is good. Gasp! No one argued that point. Why would you do this to yourself?

You said you said a lot of stuff you didn’t say, and you say I said a lot of stuff I didn’t say. But here I am, feeding it. Sigh. When will I learn? You say one thing about poo and someone runs with it and turns it into points about Vince micromanaging and how you’ve either got two options: His way or be bad. What? How about you be good?


----------



## CRCC

Cult03 said:


> Who wants AEW to fail? Respond to the person who wants it to fail and I'll continue to respond positively to those who want AEW to be better


It's clear reading this forum that there is people who get a kick out of every single bad news related to AEW.

I don't care enough to take names, just tink it's sad.

If you're not one of them, don't quote me on it.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Umm to give him something to combat the Inner Circles perceived advantage. I mean do you even watch Dynamite/AEW? Pretty obvious why he did it.


So wearing an eye patch gave him an advantage against Suzuki too?


----------



## TripleG

I took it as Moxley's eye was hurt, BUT it had healed prior to the match with Jericho and he didn't let on that this was the case.


----------



## FatAbomination

I don't know what the competition this week is outside of Wrestling, but AEW should do a good rating, as should NXT.

NXT is promoting two feud-ending cage matches, the cage match with Cody and Wardlow did huge, so this is going to give us an indicator of what a cage match means in NXT Vs. AEW. Anything less than 770k for NXT is disappointing, and anything less than 920k for AEW is disappointing.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Good search numbers for Revolution. Over 100,000 in the US alone.


----------



## imthegame19

TripleG said:


> I took it as Moxley's eye was hurt, BUT it had healed prior to the match with Jericho and he didn't let on that this was the case.


Yep that's how I took it. He used it as advantage tonight. Cuz Jericho let his guard down thinking he couldn't see and then bam. It's nice that AEW can make him do something smart. When in WWE all he did was stupid stuff that cost him matches.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> Good search numbers for Revolution. Over 100,000 in the US alone.


I wonder how that compares to previous ppvs? The hype/buzz for this show felt hotter then All Out and Full Gear. Only Double or Nothing felt as hyped.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> I wonder how that compares to previous ppvs? The hype/buzz for this show felt hotter then All Out and Full Gear. Only Double or Nothing felt as hyped.


DON at 200K searches worldwide. Not sure exactly how many All Out and Full Gear had, but they had significantly fewer from looking at the comparison. Revolution had over 100K in the US alone, and really, it could be anywhere between 100k-200k, since 200K is the next threshold that they show. They also had over 10K each in Canada and the UK. So they very well could have gotten close to 200K worldwide.

I think in terms of searches, they should beat both All Out and Full Gear. Good chance they beat those in PPV buys, too.


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> DON at 200K searches worldwide. Not sure exactly how many All Out and Full Gear had, but they had significantly fewer from looking at the comparison. Revolution had over 100K in the US alone, and really, it could be anywhere between 100k-200k, since 200K is the next threshold that they show. They also had over 10K each in Canada and the UK. So they very well could have gotten close to 200K worldwide.
> 
> I think in terms of searches, they should beat both All Out and Full Gear. Good chance they beat those in PPV buys, too.


Full Gear didn't rank, so it's easy to assume well under 100k, DoN was first show and Mox debut was huge. Revolution is well above Full Gear, buyrate will be interesting because they don't have UK PPV carrier anymore, but they didn't go against a big boxing match like last time.

If they do over 100k, that's a huge success.


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> Full Gear didn't rank, so it's easy to assume well under 100k, DoN was first show and Mox debut was huge. Revolution is well above Full Gear, buyrate will be interesting because they don't have UK PPV carrier anymore, but they didn't go against a big boxing match like last time.
> 
> If they do over 100k, that's a huge success.


I didn't know that they lost their UK carrier. That will hurt them in the UK, which is a pretty big market, however, they probably did a lot better than Full Gear, and maybe even All Out, in the US, which is their biggest market.


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> I didn't know that they lost their UK carrier. That will hurt them in the UK, which is a pretty big market, however, they probably did a lot better than Full Gear, and maybe even All Out, in the US, which is their biggest market.


The expectation is that some of the UK market would transition to buying on FITE TV, but as we've seen with UFC and ESPN+, you're not going to transition everyone into buying a streaming PPV Vs. PPV.

Probably lost 15k buys or-so off that, so that is something to factor. That's why anything above 100k is a huge success. I believe DoN did 120k, so it would put it right around the range of that when you factor out UK.


----------



## FatAbomination

Meltzer notes on ratings, AEW won every quarter, Iron-Man match did well, Weigh-in beat Charlotte/Bianca easily, however when Dynamite ended, there was a larger than usual shift to NXT, meaning there was some interest in Charlotte/Bianca.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> God, can you stay on topic for one conversation, please? You said not making poo jokes is a metric of being a star. You got called out for it. You are wrong.
> 
> Your other points aren’t worth engaging with. They are off-topic. Everyone knows what creative control did to WCW. No one said anything about Austin. Creative people being creative is good. Gasp! No one argued that point. Why would you do this to yourself?
> 
> You said you said a lot of stuff you didn’t say, and you say I said a lot of stuff I didn’t say. But here I am, feeding it. Sigh. When will I learn? You say one thing about poo and someone runs with it and turns it into points about Vince micromanaging and how you’ve either got two options: His way or be bad. What? How about you be good?


Since you can’t put 2 and 2 together, Austin’s main gripe was a lack of creative control in WCW's process. And he wasn’t alone. This flies in the face of this narrative that wrestlers had creative control in WCW. Two or three top wrestlers having the book =/= wrestlers having creative control.

And as for the poo jokes, I say that doing poo jokes won't get a guy over and your response was "hurr durr da Wock did it." Well, da Wock was the most charismatic wrestler in history who cut promos with *his* *own* colorful sense of humor, but I guess Goldberg, Lesner and the Undertaker could pull it off if Vince writes it for them.?

I get the point of “poo jokes” not disqualifying success, but that’s not even relevant when Jon Good, the guy we're talking about, neither wanted to do them nor was well suited to do them, which is why we’re discussing creative authorship in the first place.


----------



## imthegame19

FatAbomination said:


> Full Gear didn't rank, so it's easy to assume well under 100k, DoN was first show and Mox debut was huge. Revolution is well above Full Gear, buyrate will be interesting because they don't have UK PPV carrier anymore, but they didn't go against a big boxing match like last time.
> 
> If they do over 100k, that's a huge success.



Yeah hopefully people went with Fite tv in UK. Another thing to consider is AEW added indemand service since last ppv. So it was available on more cable services then before. Allowing people more options order it then BR Live.









AEW Signs PPV Deal with In Demand for Quarterly Events Through 2021


All Elite Wrestling has expanded their pay-per-view reach by signing a deal with In Demand for quarterly events through 2021.




www.prowrestlingsheet.com


----------



## Strike Force

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a tier is a range where multiple things that are similar can sit
> 
> I’m saying they are in the same tier / but from there on it becomes ‘preference‘ and ‘immeasurable’
> 
> Just as polar opinions like ‘who is the best, hogan, rock, scsa...’ and so on. At some point you can’t argue anymore - they are all top tier, and whomever is on the tippy top in your head comes down to personal preference












Jesus H. Christ. We all know what a fucking tier is.

You've missed the fundamental flaw in your logic that I've repeatedly pointed out: I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR ASSERTION THAT THEY ARE IN THE SAME TIER IN TERMS OF CHARISMA. If we're working on this "tier" system, Moxley's either on the tippy-top tier or the second one down, whereas Omega is definitely further down the list.

You're entitled to your opinion, however wildly incorrect it may be, but understand something: *you can't at once argue that something is subjective and then argue that they're "objectively" on the same tier. *I don't know how else to break this down for you.


----------



## The Wood

CRCC said:


> It's clear reading this forum that there is people who get a kick out of every single bad news related to AEW.
> 
> I don't care enough to take names, just tink it's sad.
> 
> If you're not one of them, don't quote me on it.


AEW fans bring a lot of schadenfreude upon themselves because a lot of them are aggressive and obnoxious and push back reality to say outlandish things.

Case in point:



imthegame19 said:


> Yep that's how I took it. He used it as advantage tonight. Cuz Jericho let his guard down thinking he couldn't see and then bam. It's nice that AEW can make him do something smart. When in WWE all he did was stupid stuff that cost him matches.


How is it smart to draw a target on your face and pretend to work at a handicap for the majority of a World Title fight? That is fucking ridiculous. 



DOTL said:


> Since you can’t put 2 and 2 together, Austin’s main gripe was a lack of creative control in WCW's process. And he wasn’t alone. This flies in the face of this narrative that wrestlers had creative control in WCW. Two or three top wrestlers having the book =/= wrestlers having creative control.
> 
> And as for the poo jokes, I say that doing poo jokes won't get a guy over and your response was "hurr durr da Wock did it." Well, da Wock was the most charismatic wrestler in history who cut promos with *his* *own* colorful sense of humor, but I guess Goldberg, Lesner and the Undertaker could pull it off if Vince writes it for them.?
> 
> I get the point of “poo jokes” not disqualifying success, but that’s not even relevant when Jon Good, the guy we're talking about, neither wanted to do them nor was well suited to do them, which is why we’re discussing creative authorship in the first place.


Sigh, I’m not doing this. You said Moxley is a star because he doesn’t make poo jokes anymore. My response was that this is clearly...poo.

Austin is irrelevant. Why the fuck is Austin coming up in a conversation about whether or not making poo jokes disqualifies someone from being a star? Which you said *in this post* you understand isn’t a thing.

You said that because you were asked to provide a metric by which Moxley is a bigger star. You said the poo thing to worm away. You have been called on it.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Sigh, I’m not doing this. You said Moxley is a star because he doesn’t make poo jokes anymore. My response was that this is clearly...poo.
> 
> Austin is irrelevant. Why the fuck is Austin coming up in a conversation about whether or not making poo jokes disqualifies someone from being a star? Which you said *in this post* you understand isn’t a thing.
> 
> You said that because you were asked to provide a metric by which Moxley is a bigger star. You said the poo thing to worm away. You have been called on it.


I said Mox is in a POSITION TO BECOME A BIGGER STAR because he has zero poo jokes. He thought they sucked, we thought they sucked, you thought they sucked. An old codger forcing him to do something that sucks is not going to get him over. period.

So I’ll say it again. 0 poo jokes is a great metric that he’s in a better spot.

I brought up AUSTIN because he proves YOUR POINT ABOUT WCW is made up, fairy tale nonsense. If you don’t want people to comment on things you say, you shouldn’t say them.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> I said Mox is in a POSITION TO BECOME A BIGGER STAR because he has zero poo jokes. He thought they sucked, we thought they sucked, you thought they sucked. An old codger forcing him to do something that sucks is not going to get him over. period.
> 
> So I’ll say it again. 0 poo jokes is a great metric that he’s in a better spot.
> 
> I brought up AUSTIN because he proves YOUR POINT ABOUT WCW is made up, fairy tale nonsense. If you don’t want people to comment on things you say, you shouldn’t say them.


No, you didn't.



NathanMayberry said:


> So what exactly is going to make him a star?
> 
> What I mean by that is, what is the objective metric that is going to determine that he is a star?





DOTL said:


> Having 0 poo jokes for starters. How’s that for a metric?


You were asked what is going to make him a star, and were then asked to provide an objective metric. You said what you said. You are lying.

Oh, so you're being obtuse again? Is there anyone else here, _anyone_ else, who would suggest that the inmates running the asylum in WCW was not a bad thing? Is there anyone who would suggest that Hogan's creative control was a fairy tale?

You are going off-topic, and you're trying to steer this into the rocks. That is how you try and win arguments. You don't raise good points, you don't use reason -- you are certainly not honest. You bombard people with inane nonsense and try to exhaust them by forcing conversation in so many directions until it crashes.

Moxley is not in a position to be a bigger star in AEW. There is no objective metric that suggests he is more watched now than he was when he was in the WWE. Dynamite gets about 900k viewers a week, their PPVs get about 60k North American buys, and he's pretending to be a pirate in front of half-empty arenas. He traded in a gas mask for an eye-patch and pot-plant for an expensive car. You know this. That is why when you were asked to provide a measure by which he could possibly be considered a star, you deflected with your poo jokes statement.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> No, you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked what is going to make him a star, and were then asked to provide an objective metric. You said what you said. You are lying.
> 
> Oh, so you're being obtuse again? Is there anyone else here, _anyone_ else, who would suggest that the inmates running the asylum in WCW was not a bad thing? Is there anyone who would suggest that Hogan's creative control was a fairy tale?
> 
> You are going off-topic, and you're trying to steer this into the rocks. That is how you try and win arguments. You don't raise good points, you don't use reason -- you are certainly not honest. You bombard people with inane nonsense and try to exhaust them by forcing conversation in so many directions until it crashes.
> 
> Moxley is not in a position to be a bigger star in AEW. There is no objective metric that suggests he is more watched now than he was when he was in the WWE. Dynamite gets about 900k viewers a week, their PPVs get about 60k North American buys, and he's pretending to be a pirate in front of half-empty arenas. He traded in a gas mask for an eye-patch and pot-plant for an expensive car. You know this. That is why when you were asked to provide a measure by which he could possibly be considered a star, you deflected with your poo jokes statement.


Moxley looked like far more of a star...when working with...Kenny...O...mega?

This just got awkward.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Moxley looked like far more of a star...when working with...Kenny...O...mega?
> 
> This just got awkward.


Lol, what are you talking about?


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, what are you talking about?


Fucking with you about this whole Moxley and Jericho thing being a real let down compared to how big the Omega stuff felt.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Fucking with you about this whole Moxley and Jericho thing being a real let down compared to how big the Omega stuff felt.


Oh, I slept through that stuff, and I'm pretty sure it was almost universally panned. Didn't even Meltzer and Alvarez trash it?


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Fucking with you about this whole Moxley and Jericho thing being a real let down compared to how big the Omega stuff felt.


Moxley/Jericho story build was a lot better then Moxley/Omega. Maybe cuz Moxley/Jericho did a lot of cool stuff on tv. While Omega/Moxley build was kinda small on tv with best stuff happening at Double or Nothing/Fyter Fest or on internet promos.


But Moxley/Omega had a much better match. Jericho just kinda limited at his age on what he can do in the ring. He needs right guy to bump for him and do spots. Moxley not the type of wrestler to do that. 


Moxley more brawler and physical wrestler that we saw more of in late 90s like Austin or Mick Foley(when he wasn't bumping). Moxley best matches come against other brawler and physical type like awesome stuff he did with Ishii and Suzuki in Japan.


He also has quickness and stamina to keep up with top perfomers. Which is why he had very good matches with Rollins, AJ, Naito, Omega, Juice Robinson etc. When he's not facing either type. His matches can seem slower pace or outdated from today's standards. Moxley vs Young Jericho would have been awesome but old Jericho hasn't been. I do think they could have really good 10-12 minute match. 


But trying to go almost 25 minutes last night I don't think limited old Jericho vs Moxley style are capable of putting on some great match over that length of time. It was still good match with some good spots and moments. Nothing really good or awesome. But I don't think Jericho had many really good or awesome matches in AEW. At least anything I can remember .


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> DON at 200K searches worldwide. Not sure exactly how many All Out and Full Gear had, but they had significantly fewer from looking at the comparison. Revolution had over 100K in the US alone, and really, it could be anywhere between 100k-200k, since 200K is the next threshold that they show. They also had over 10K each in Canada and the UK. So they very well could have gotten close to 200K worldwide.
> 
> I think in terms of searches, they should beat both All Out and Full Gear. Good chance they beat those in PPV buys, too.


With WWE getting trashed so much with terrible Super Showdown. With terrible booking that effects bunch of the regulars on the roster. While AEW coming off a very well received ppv. I wonder if this will lead to ratings boost with more WWE fans wanting to give AEW more of a try.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> With WWE getting trashed so much with terrible Super Showdown. With terrible booking that effects bunch of the regulars on the roster. While AEW coming off a very well received ppv. I wonder if this will lead to ratings boost with more WWE fans wanting to give AEW more of a try.


You are setting yourself up for major disappointment.


----------



## Cult03

CRCC said:


> It's clear reading this forum that there is people who get a kick out of every single bad news related to AEW.
> 
> I don't care enough to take names, just tink it's sad.
> 
> If you're not one of them, don't quote me on it.


Then respond to them and call them out. I have nobody on ignore and I don't see these things any more often than I see people saying they happen


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> Yep that's how I took it. He used it as advantage tonight. Cuz Jericho let his guard down thinking he couldn't see and then bam. It's nice that AEW can make him do something smart. When in WWE all he did was stupid stuff that cost him matches.


It would have been seen as an advantage if he took it off at the beginning. All he did was wrestle 90% of a match with one eye, with interference from 3 or 4 others and still won. Made Jericho look very weak. Same way they made PAC look weak when he lost to someone who only needed vision in a single eye to beat him. It was dumb


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> With WWE getting trashed so much with terrible Super Showdown. With terrible booking that effects bunch of the regulars on the roster. While AEW coming off a very well received ppv. I wonder if this will lead to ratings boost with more WWE fans wanting to give AEW more of a try.


Who knows. There are clearly a lot of WWE fans following Moxley's career in AEW. He generally gets more YouTube views than Dynamite's viewership, and numerous videos get well over twice as many views as Dynamite's viewership. A lot of those views have to come from WWE fans who don't watch Dynamite. We'll see if putting the title on him is enough to get the American portion of those people to tune in on Wednesday.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> No, you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked what is going to make him a star, and were then asked to provide an objective metric. You said what you said. You are lying.
> 
> Oh, so you're being obtuse again? Is there anyone else here, _anyone_ else, who would suggest that the inmates running the asylum in WCW was not a bad thing? Is there anyone who would suggest that Hogan's creative control was a fairy tale?
> 
> You are going off-topic, and you're trying to steer this into the rocks. That is how you try and win arguments. You don't raise good points, you don't use reason -- you are certainly not honest. You bombard people with inane nonsense and try to exhaust them by forcing conversation in so many directions until it crashes.
> 
> Moxley is not in a position to be a bigger star in AEW. There is no objective metric that suggests he is more watched now than he was when he was in the WWE. Dynamite gets about 900k viewers a week, their PPVs get about 60k North American buys, and he's pretending to be a pirate in front of half-empty arenas. He traded in a gas mask for an eye-patch and pot-plant for an expensive car. You know this. That is why when you were asked to provide a measure by which he could possibly be considered a star, you deflected with your poo jokes statement.


1. Did you even read what we wrote? He asked what metric is GOING TO MAKE HIM A STAR. Since the post he was replying to(not mine) and the the entire debate was about WWE's creative being the only thing keeping Moxly from that spot, I said, flippantly, "0 poop jokes, for starters." So. Where do I lie about saying this?

2. Golly. You're right. Three-to-four old workers from the late 80s having the book is the same exact same thing as wrestlers as a whole having creative control over their own characters. My bad.

3. If you can't see the difference between a guy wearing an eye patch after getting stabbed in the eye or a guy getting bribed out of a title shot and him befriending a potted plant, I can't help you. You say I was asked. Asked what? The guy wasn't even talking to me. If you're going to narrate what happens in this thread at least get your bearings first. Direct quotes are usually above what people write.
Anyway, I'll echo the point the poster he actually replied to made. Moxley will benefit better from 1m people watching him produce good content than 2 and a half watching him be McMahon's sock puppet for stupid humor. And if you need evidence, please refer to Baron Corbin.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> 1. Did you even read what we wrote? He asked what metric is GOING TO MAKE HIM A STAR. Since the post he was replying to(not mine) and the the entire debate was about WWE's creative being the only thing keeping Moxly from that spot, I said, flippantly, "0 poop jokes, for starters." So. Where do I lie about saying this?
> 
> 2. Golly. You're right. Three-to-four old workers from the late 80s having the book is the same exact same thing as wrestlers as a whole having creative control over their own characters. My bad.
> 
> 3. If you can't see the difference between a guy wearing an eye patch after getting stabbed in the eye and him wearing a random gas mask, or a guy getting bribed out of a title shot and him befriending a potted plant, I can't help you.


I try very hard to read what you write, but it is god damn difficult. Honestly, you’re the hardest person on these boards to read. It’s just...tiring, man. You even made this long-winded. Why are there even points 2 and 3 to this? This is about point 1. Stay. On. Topic.

Yeah, you were asked about what metric was going to make Moxley a star, and you hid behind something flippant. That’s exactly my point. Then it got pointed out to you that poop jokes don’t sink stars and that having creative control is not necessarily a good thing and now we’re here.

Why do you do this to yourself?


----------



## DOTL

Nevermind.


----------



## bdon

Hogan and Nash booking things is definitely not the same Darby fucking Allin choosing to wear tights, Page deciding to drink beer, Private Party deciding to wear velvet and leopard print, etc. 

How is this a discussion?


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> Hogan and Nash booking things is definitely not the same Darby fucking Allin choosing to wear tights, Page deciding to drink beer, Private Party deciding to wear velvet and leopard print, etc.
> 
> How is this a discussion?


Because Wood is trying to save a dying argument.


----------



## bdon

“SELL THE MOST”


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> “SELL THE MOST”


Crap. It's the same thing isn't it?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strike Force said:


> View attachment 83345
> 
> 
> Jesus H. Christ. We all know what a fucking tier is.
> 
> You've missed the fundamental flaw in your logic that I've repeatedly pointed out: I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR ASSERTION THAT THEY ARE IN THE SAME TIER IN TERMS OF CHARISMA. If we're working on this "tier" system, Moxley's either on the tippy-top tier or the second one down, whereas Omega is definitely further down the list.
> 
> You're entitled to your opinion, however wildly incorrect it may be, but understand something: *you can't at once argue that something is subjective and then argue that they're "objectively" on the same tier. *I don't know how else to break this down for you.


uhmmm - of course you can

objectively they are booked in the same tier - main event level

there are indicators about where the performers lie in a tier. Or do you think Kenny closes the show or are in main angles just for shits and giggles? 

AEW books their main event scene based on overness. Overness = charisma. If you’re in that scene you are in the same tier

what else is there possibly to say about this? Maybe you need to get some official ‘charisma ratings’ from somewhere, counting the numerous nuances of charisma and giving them a definitive score to keep having this discussion to continue?


----------



## bdon




----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Hogan and Nash booking things is definitely not the same Darby fucking Allin choosing to wear tights, Page deciding to drink beer, Private Party deciding to wear velvet and leopard print, etc.
> 
> How is this a discussion?


It’s the same thing as Omega and the Bucks booking things. And all those things you listed are awful decisions that someone with sense should get onto. Talent showed up when they wanted in WCW and got shit nixed. That was perceived as a problem then. Talent going into business for themselves and doing what they want on the air should be perceived as a problem now.

Again, not sure how any of that is even relevant to a discussion about whether Jon Moxley can objectively be a bigger star in AEW than he was in WWE.



DOTL said:


> Because Wood is trying to save a dying argument.


You will literally say anything, won’t you? This is because you dodged a question about which metric you could use to determine that Mox is a bigger star in AEW than WWE. Ratio of poo jokes to eyepatches ain’t it.

That’s always been what this argument has been about, and I’m sure anyone with the time to even skim this bullshit knows that’s the truth and can see how you are trying to murky it. Answer the damn question:

By which objective metric is Moxley a bigger star in AEW than he was in WWE?


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm - of course you can
> 
> objectively they are booked in the same tier - main event level
> 
> there are indicators about where the performers lie in a tier. Or do you think Kenny closes the show or are in main angles just for shits and giggles?
> 
> AEW books their main event scene based on overness. Overness = charisma. If you’re in that scene you are in the same tier
> 
> what else is there possibly to say about this? Maybe you need to get some official ‘charisma ratings’ from somewhere, counting the numerous nuances of charisma and giving them a definitive score to keep having this discussion to continue?


“Over” is a term used way too liberally by fans these days. It’s like “heat.” When you’re over, you’ve surpassed the meter. You will usually see metrics rise. Someone that is over will draw.

Ratings go up when Jericho, Moxley, Cody and MJF are around. They are, arguably, over. Everyone else is trying to get over.

We’re at a weird point where so many people have been driven away from wrestling that crowd reactions no longer dictate who is over. Not in WWE, not in AEW. Metrics are no longer linked. Goldberg will get booed in a building, but will draw hundreds of thousands of people to TV. Cena is the same with house shows. A good reaction in a building could mean death to your bottom-line.

Smarks are largely the ones buying tickets. You cannot trust them to give you an honest reading. It’s like Full Sail or the Impact Zone, but in a bigger building, and those reactions are starting to echo.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You will literally say anything, won’t you? This is because you dodged a question about which metric you could use to determine that Mox is a bigger star in AEW than WWE. Ratio of poo jokes to eyepatches ain’t it.
> 
> That’s always been what this argument has been about, and I’m sure anyone with the time to even skim this bullshit knows that’s the truth and can see how you are trying to murky it. Answer the damn question:
> 
> By which objective metric is Moxley a bigger star in AEW than he was in WWE?


The question wasn’t even addressed to me, genius. Go back to the op and look up two centimeters to the guy I quoted.

you even thumbed up his post lol


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> “Over” is a term used way too liberally by fans these days. It’s like “heat.” When you’re over, you’ve surpassed the meter. You will usually see metrics rise. Someone that is over will draw.
> 
> Ratings go up when Jericho, Moxley, Cody and MJF are around. They are, arguably, over. Everyone else is trying to get over.
> 
> We’re at a weird point where so many people have been driven away from wrestling that crowd reactions no longer dictate who is over. Not in WWE, not in AEW. Metrics are no longer linked. Goldberg will get booed in a building, but will draw hundreds of thousands of people to TV. Cena is the same with house shows. A good reaction in a building could mean death to your bottom-line.
> 
> Smarks are largely the ones buying tickets. You cannot trust them to give you an honest reading. It’s like Full Sail or the Impact Zone, but in a bigger building, and those reactions are starting to echo.


You're just throwing anything at wall hoping it'll stick.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> The question wasn’t even addressed to me, genius. Go back to the op and look up two centimeters to the guy I quoted.
> 
> you even thumbed up his post lol


All apologists tend to blend together after a bit. Still, you chose to engage. The question you're dodging still stands.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> All apologists tend to blend together after a bit. Still, you chose to engage. The question you're dodging still stands.


?


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> ?


Are you willing to admit there is no metric by which Jon Moxley is a bigger star in AEW than he was in WWE?


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> “Over” is a term used way too liberally by fans these days. It’s like “heat.” When you’re over, you’ve surpassed the meter. You will usually see metrics rise. Someone that is over will draw.
> 
> Ratings go up when Jericho, Moxley, Cody and MJF are around. They are, arguably, over. Everyone else is trying to get over.
> 
> We’re at a weird point where so many people have been driven away from wrestling that crowd reactions no longer dictate who is over. Not in WWE, not in AEW. Metrics are no longer linked. Goldberg will get booed in a building, but will draw hundreds of thousands of people to TV. Cena is the same with house shows. A good reaction in a building could mean death to your bottom-line.
> 
> Smarks are largely the ones buying tickets. You cannot trust them to give you an honest reading. It’s like Full Sail or the Impact Zone, but in a bigger building, and those reactions are starting to echo.


I don't agree with you on alot of things but I completely agree with you on the term over and I've mentioned this many of times. 

Being popular and being over are two completely different things. Being over means making money, ratings increasing etc. 

Being popular isn't being over. Its being popular.


----------



## The Wood

MJF said:


> I don't agree with you on alot of things but I completely agree with you on the term over and I've mentioned this many of times.
> 
> Being popular and being over are two completely different things. Being over means making money, ratings increasing etc.
> 
> Being popular isn't being over. Its being popular.


Likewise me with you, but it's cool that we match-up on that one. Thanks for backing me up on it.


----------



## validreasoning

Raw viewership saw a 17% rise the night after Ambrose won the WWE title back in 2016 from 2.97 million previous week to 3.47 million so extra 500,000 people tuned in in real terms.

Will be interesting to see Wednesdays numbers. 17% rise would see it top a million


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm - of course you can
> 
> objectively they are booked in the same tier - main event level
> 
> there are indicators about where the performers lie in a tier. Or do you think Kenny closes the show or are in main angles just for shits and giggles?
> 
> AEW books their main event scene based on overness. Overness = charisma. If you’re in that scene you are in the same tier
> 
> what else is there possibly to say about this? Maybe you need to get some official ‘charisma ratings’ from somewhere, counting the numerous nuances of charisma and giving them a definitive score to keep having this discussion to continue?


They aren't even booked in the same tier. One has a win over the other and is the current world champion of the promotion with an undefeated singles record. The other is a midcard act in a tag team. Moxley and Jericho are in their own tier in terms of booking. That makes sense, given that they are also in their own tier in terms of drawing power. Then you've got someone like MJF who is also above Omega, both in terms of booking and drawing power.

I get why you guys are defensive, though. When AEW launched, you probably thought that it would be a playground for The Elite. That they would come over here from Japan and be massive stars and be the top guys in their own promotion. That didn't quite work out. They've all had to take a back seat to two former WWE guys who are way bigger stars than any of them will ever be (both of whom, by the way, went to Japan and had no problem moving numbers over there, according to Meltzer.) They've even been overshadowed by a new young up and comer, whose charisma and promo skills have been off the chart.


----------



## FatAbomination

Google Trend numbers for the show are coming in, it's up from Full Gear, blew the NXT Takeover show out of the water.


----------



## fabi1982

So we find things successful when google trends shows good numbers? Do you guys even know how easily this is manipulatable? Hope the buys are up, but looking at google trends? Cmon...

its like looking in this forum at the weekly SD thread with 30 posts and they do 2.7m, compared to aew with 300+ posts doing .85m


----------



## AEWMoxley

fabi1982 said:


> So we find things successful when google trends shows good numbers? Do you guys even know how easily this is manipulatable? Hope the buys are up, but looking at google trends? Cmon...
> 
> its like looking in this forum at the weekly SD thread with 30 posts and they do 2.7m, compared to aew with 300+ posts doing .85m


Google Trends aren't a perfect predictor, by any means, but if you compare different trends in the right context, they can give you some useful insights.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Out of interest - OC getting to Gargano levels on google


----------



## FatAbomination

fabi1982 said:


> So we find things successful when google trends shows good numbers? Do you guys even know how easily this is manipulatable? Hope the buys are up, but looking at google trends? Cmon...
> 
> its like looking in this forum at the weekly SD thread with 30 posts and they do 2.7m, compared to aew with 300+ posts doing .85m


Google trends isn't a good indicator for TV ratings, but generally speaking, for paid shows it's pretty accurate.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Out of interest - OC getting to Gargano levels on google
> 
> View attachment 83358


I mean I for one find OC more entertaining than Gargano lol.


----------



## Taroostyles

Orange has appeal that goes way beyond what he does in the ring. That's what's missing in alot of pro wrestling today, the old school guys all hate him cause he represents what they dont understand but the guy is a total star.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean I for one find OC more entertaining than Gargano lol.


Me for two

by a lot 

was just interesting that he’s comparable with one of NXTs top babyfaces


----------



## Strike Force

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm - of course you can
> 
> objectively they are booked in the same tier - main event level
> 
> there are indicators about where the performers lie in a tier. Or do you think Kenny closes the show or are in main angles just for shits and giggles?
> 
> AEW books their main event scene based on overness. Overness = charisma. If you’re in that scene you are in the same tier
> 
> what else is there possibly to say about this? Maybe you need to get some official ‘charisma ratings’ from somewhere, counting the numerous nuances of charisma and giving them a definitive score to keep having this discussion to continue?


Wait...now you’re equating booking and charisma? Only the most charismatic get to main event? 2007 Great Khali was more charismatic than Jeff Hardy and MVP?

I’m not prone to hyperbole, but that might be one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen on this forum.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strike Force said:


> Wait...now you’re equating booking and charisma? Only the most charismatic get to main event? 2007 Great Khali was more charismatic than Jeff Hardy and MVP?
> 
> I’m not prone to hyperbole, but that might be one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen on this forum.


i am equating booking in AEW to charisma

you‘re fast and loose with the insults there buddy, might want to wind your neck in


----------



## shandcraig

but 


Taroostyles said:


> Orange has appeal that goes way beyond what he does in the ring. That's what's missing in alot of pro wrestling today, the old school guys all hate him cause he represents what they dont understand but the guy is a total star.



but he pretty much is old school. Its always been a fact that its not the wrestling that drove fans but the persona the character the story telling. This is why wwe is so bad these days. 

He has something random and different and he just tells a story.We dont need every match to be some epic athletic 50 star march.Has hogan ever had a good match in his life ? no but he had good energy in the ring that drove a story


----------



## DOTL

OC reminds me of super old school wrestling, before the time of crochety old Cornet when you had heels like Gorgeous George prancing in the ring and stuff. Back when wrestling was meant to be fun.


----------



## Strike Force

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i am equating booking in AEW to charisma
> 
> you‘re fast and loose with the insults there buddy, might want to wind your neck in


I’m done with you. Nothing’s getting through. Booking doesn’t equal charisma, nor vice versa. Go lie down.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strike Force said:


> I’m done with you. Nothing’s getting through. Booking doesn’t equal charisma, nor vice versa. Go lie down.


----------



## JBLGOAT

Taroostyles said:


> Orange has appeal that goes way beyond what he does in the ring. That's what's missing in alot of pro wrestling today, the old school guys all hate him cause he represents what they dont understand but the guy is a total star.


A lot of what OC does is great like the whole look some of the bits with the glasses. All the hands in pockets moves. The lackluster thumbs up. *But the slow strikes to the shins are just stupid.*


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Me for two
> 
> by a lot
> 
> was just interesting that he’s comparable with one of NXTs top babyfaces


Imagine it's a combination of he's certainly more interesting, AEW is hotter than NXT, and Gargano isn't old news but he ain't fresh either. Gargano has most likely already hit his peas as far as overness and interest where as OC is just getting started.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> Orange has appeal that goes way beyond what he does in the ring. That's what's missing in alot of pro wrestling today, the old school guys all hate him cause he represents what they dont understand but the guy is a total star.


Very much so, for as goofy as he is, sometimes that's needed. Wrestling is over flooded with serious guys and I just want to wrestle guy. So his give no fucks attitude sticks out. It's sort of the reverse of why Benoit stuck out back in the day, in a sea full of character he just wanted to fuck somebody up nothing more nothing less.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Record numbers of fans switch to watch Charlotte Flair vs Bianca Belair end Record Number Of Fans Switch To WWE NXT After AEW Dynamite For Charlotte Flair Vs. Bianca Belair End - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## bdon

_yawn_


----------



## Peerless

validreasoning said:


> Raw viewership saw a 17% rise the night after Ambrose won the WWE title back in 2016 from 2.97 million previous week to 3.47 million so extra 500,000 people tuned in in real terms.
> 
> Will be interesting to see Wednesdays numbers. 17% rise would see it top a million


All his segments gain at least +80k since he beat Omega. He's the biggest full-time draw going in wrestling. I'm surprised Meltzer hasn't spoken more about it tbh.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Peerless said:


> All his segments gain at least +80k since he beat Omega. He's the biggest full-time draw going in wrestling. I'm surprised Meltzer hasn't spoken more about it tbh.


Meltzer did refer to him as a megastar in wrestling. He doesn't throw that term around much.


----------



## Peerless

AEWMoxley said:


> Meltzer did refer to him as a megastar in wrestling. He doesn't throw that term around much.


That was regarding the ticket demand for All Out. I'm strictly speaking about TV ratings. He hasn't lost any viewers in any of his segments since joining and since beating Omega they all gain +80k with his match against Cobb gaining almost 200k (highest ever against a nobody). 

If it was Omega, Cody or Bucks getting those numbers, you'd never hear the end of it from Meltzer.


----------



## RiverFenix

I think 85K-90K is a good "hope" floor for AEW with anything more gravy.


Ozell Gray said:


> Record numbers of fans switch to watch Charlotte Flair vs Bianca Belair end Record Number Of Fans Switch To WWE NXT After AEW Dynamite For Charlotte Flair Vs. Bianca Belair End - Wrestling Inc.


I wonder if there is any way AEW could get an overrun from TNT. Also does that NXT overrun juice their ratings eventhough AEW is over?


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think 85K-90K is a good "hope" floor for AEW with anything more gravy.
> 
> I wonder if there is any way AEW could get an overrun from TNT. Also does that NXT overrun juice their ratings eventhough AEW is over?


Yes, it bumps the quarter hour.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think 85K-90K is a good "hope" floor for AEW with anything more gravy.
> 
> I wonder if there is any way AEW could get an overrun from TNT. Also does that NXT overrun juice their ratings eventhough AEW is over?


Yeah it boosts the overall viewership. No AEW can't get an overrun from TNT because they have other shows they're obligated to show, plus Time Warner (or WarnerMedia) or losing money according to their financials WarnerMedia takes $1.2 billion revenue hit in hopes that HBO Max pays off in the long run


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> OC reminds me of super old school wrestling, before the time of crochety old Cornet when you had heels like Gorgeous George prancing in the ring and stuff. Back when wrestling was meant to be fun.


You clearly don't know what Gorgeous George was supposed to be about.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You clearly don't know what Gorgeous George was supposed to be about.


And you do. Yeah, yeah, Whatever.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

JBLGOAT said:


> A lot of what OC does is great like the whole look some of the bits with the glasses. All the hands in pockets moves. The lackluster thumbs up. *But the slow strikes to the shins are just stupid.*


No way, Sweet Shin Music is the best!!!


----------



## FatAbomination

Google trends has Revolution interest 20% higher than Full Gear, that's a pretty significant difference. Had they not lost UK, it's realistic to think this show does 115-120k buys, it still might end up doing that.

It's obvious that producing quality programming has propelled them to more interest. The first 6 weeks of TV weren't even bad, they were pretty good, but weeks 7-12ish were very questionable, and their interest dropped off hard. 

They've rebounded really well in 2020, and have peaked for the PPV, it'll be really interesting to see what the ratings are Wednesday, especially with the head to head double cage match.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Looks like early estimate is around 100K, and this is without all of the replay buys.

411MANIA | AEW Revolution Early PPV Numbers Have Reportedly ‘Done Well,’ B/R Live Numbers Increased ‘Over 10 Percent’

100K+, once you factor in all of the replay buys, is a good number considering they lost TV in their second biggest market. @*FatAbomination *is probably right - with ITV, they likely would have done around 115K.


----------



## Illogical

AEWMoxley said:


> Meltzer did refer to him as a megastar in wrestling. He doesn't throw that term around much.


It's almost like people don't actually listen to Meltzer and instead listen to those who misquote or take him out of context just to start shit or hear what they wanna hear.

Orange is fucking great.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Meltzer did refer to him as a megastar in wrestling. He doesn't throw that term around much.


He absolutely is a big time star and has a chance to be even bigger. As does Omega with more eyes on him and being presented as a star. 

These are not mutually exclusive things, man.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Moxley is AEW's biggest star. That's why AEW need to do the kind of thing WWE did with Austin/Rock back in the day.

What I mean is the times where they featured Austin on RAW after almost every match. It kept people tuned in and they experienced other segments as well.

For example:


----------



## bdon

Double post


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Looks like early estimate is around 100K, and this is without all of the replay buys.
> 
> 411MANIA | AEW Revolution Early PPV Numbers Have Reportedly ‘Done Well,’ B/R Live Numbers Increased ‘Over 10 Percent’
> 
> 100K+, once you factor in all of the replay buys, is a good number considering they lost TV in their second biggest market. @*FatAbomination *is probably right - with ITV, they likely would have done around 115K.


I still wonder how Meltzer can calculate +/- the ppv buys when he don't have the numbers for FiteTV (and he never had them) ?


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I still wonder how Meltzer can calculate +/- the ppv buys when he don't have the numbers for FiteTV (and he never had them) ?


You're referring to that statement that Ringside News put out there claiming that Fite told them Meltzer's numbers were inaccurate and that Fite doesn't give them out. Ringside News is one of the least trustworthy sources out there.

Meltzer has been a trusted source in PPV data for decades.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> Moxley is AEW's biggest star. That's why AEW need to do the kind of thing WWE did with Austin/Rock back in the day.
> 
> What I mean is the times where they featured Austin on RAW after almost every match. It kept people tuned in and they experienced other segments as well.
> 
> For example:


They definitely need him in multiple segments per episode. He doesn't have to have a match every week, but give him a lot more promo time than he has received so far, and give him more backstage/outside of the arena segments.


----------



## The Wood

AEWMoxley said:


> You're referring to that statement that Ringside News put out there claiming that Fite told them Meltzer's numbers were inaccurate and that Fite doesn't give them out. Ringside News is one of the least trustworthy sources out there.
> 
> Meltzer has been a trusted source in PPV data for decades.


Meltzer's data is good, but you have to take his spin on them with a grain of salt.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Meltzer's data is good, but you have to take his spin on them with a grain of salt.


Rent.
Free.


----------



## kingfrass44

1


----------



## kingfrass44

NathanMayberry said:


> So how exactly is this going to happen?
> 
> Moxley and AEW peaked at Double or Nothing last year: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=/m/027wknh,aew and have been in a downward trend since despite allegedly having the best wrestling shows in decades.
> 
> By your same argument can't someone say that because AEW is not growing in viewership that he isn't a star?


It does not mean anything except_ ppv_


----------



## NathanMayberry

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/aew-presents-dynamite/event/1E0058229F37302C



Ticket sales picked up slightly since the PPV.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NathanMayberry said:


> https://www1.ticketmaster.com/aew-presents-dynamite/event/1E0058229F37302C
> 
> 
> 
> Ticket sales picked up slightly since the PPV.


Yeah but it still sucks that they chose the outskirts of Denver Colorado to be the host of Mox's first night as champ.

Hopefully AEW figures this out. I know it is trial and error but what makes them think Denver would be a drawing town? WCW struggled out west and they were literally 4-6x's as big as AEW is.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah but it still sucks that they chose the outskirts of Denver Colorado to be the host of Mox's first night as champ.
> 
> Hopefully AEW figures this out. I know it is trial and error but what makes them think Denver would be a drawing town? WCW struggled out west and they were literally 4-6x's as big as AEW is.


More than 3.2K fans is far from bad


----------



## Dark Emperor

Is everyone expecting over 1m viewers for this show? They have to get that tonight & March 25th (Blood & Guts) to show any signs of growing interest. I'm not sure sure but i think they might this time.

I think what will hinder AEW in terms of ratings bump for title changes is that their PPV's are on Saturday and next Dynamite is Wednesday. That is a 4 day gap so any buzz would have died down a bit. Whereas with WWE, its Sunday to Monday from PPV to Raw which has a larger impact. Another example is Super Showdown to Smackdown which was 1day gap and saw a nice bump for the title change.

So it'll be interesting.


----------



## bdon

This show is shit tonight.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> This show is shit tonight.


Why ?


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Why ?


It’s the fallout show. What about QT Marshall or Big Swole and Leva Bates has to do with the PPV? They done similar things on the Dynamite after Full Gear, and it ruined momentum. I mean, hell, why not throw Cima vs Sonny Kiss in a random match as well?

SCU is boring, but maybe Dark Order with assumptions of Matt Hardy being the Exalted One helps the ratings there.

We’ll see. Not a great way to start the Moxley Era.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> It’s the fallout show. What about QT Marshall or Big Swole and Leva Bates has to do with the PPV? They done similar things on the Dynamite after Full Gear, and it ruined momentum. I mean, hell, why not throw Cima vs Sonny Kiss in a random match as well?
> 
> SCU is boring, but maybe Dark Order with assumptions of Matt Hardy being the Exalted One helps the ratings there.
> 
> We’ll see. Not a great way to start the Moxley Era.


What are you talking about ?


----------



## FatAbomination

Dark Emperor said:


> Is everyone expecting over 1m viewers for this show? They have to get that tonight & March 25th (Blood & Guts) to show any signs of growing interest. I'm not sure sure but i think they might this time.
> 
> I think what will hinder AEW in terms of ratings bump for title changes is that their PPV's are on Saturday and next Dynamite is Wednesday. That is a 4 day gap so any buzz would have died down a bit. Whereas with WWE, its Sunday to Monday from PPV to Raw which has a larger impact. Another example is Super Showdown to Smackdown which was 1day gap and saw a nice bump for the title change.
> 
> So it'll be interesting.


Double cage match on NXT and the atrocious line up tonight hurts them, 900k is my prediction.


----------



## rbl85

The stupidity of some of you is big in this thread XD


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> What are you talking about ?


Dynamite tonight.

Have you seen the card?


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Dynamite tonight.
> 
> Have you seen the card?


The next PPV is in 3 months, they can't go full gas now.

Remember AEW like to take it slow.


----------



## FatAbomination

Hopefully the goofs at AEW are reading this board, this card is fine if the matches are quick.

PAC should kill Taylor, Big Swole and Leva should be on dark, and Hager and QT shouldn't happen.


----------



## rbl85

FatAbomination said:


> Hopefully the goofs at AEW are reading this board, this card is fine if the matches are quick.
> 
> PAC should kill Taylor, Big Swole and Leva should be on dark, and Hager and QT shouldn't happen.


'

Swole is going to be the next mini-feud with Rose


----------



## FatAbomination

rbl85 said:


> '
> 
> Swole is going to be the next mini-feud with Rose


That's great. She still sucks and is a channel changer.


----------



## rbl85

FatAbomination said:


> That's great. She still sucks and is a channel changer.


If the great FatAbomination is saying it then that must be true…..


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> The next PPV is in 3 months, they can't go full gas now.
> 
> Remember AEW like to take it slow.


And they have a mini-PPV in 3 weeks. They HAVE to make this show more story-telling, vignettes, and promos. Maybe reveal the Exalted One.

If this is the show with one Moxley promo, then they’ve not learned their lesson.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> The next PPV is in 3 months, they can't go full gas now.
> 
> Remember AEW like to take it slow.


no way bro, this is going to be the first show that many people would have watched since Dynamite's debut.

It needs to be full gas from tonight.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> And they have a mini-PPV in 3 weeks. They HAVE to make this show more story-telling, vignettes, and promos. Maybe reveal the Exalted One.
> 
> If this is the show with one Moxley promo, then they’ve not learned their lesson.


I'm pretty sure Moxley is going to open and close the show.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> I'm pretty sure Moxley is going to open and close the show.


And we’ll see his segment do big numbers on book ends, but the rest is going to be a pure shit show instant channel changer.


----------



## bdon

It’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t advertise Cody, MJF, The Bucks, Page, or Omega for the Fallout show.

Go back and think about the Fallout show from Full Gear and how quickly shit fell apart at the seams.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> It’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t advertise Cody, MJF, The Bucks, Page, or Omega for the Fallout show.
> 
> Go back and think about the Fallout show from Full Gear and how quickly shit fell apart at the seams.


Yes sir. It is a travesty but who knows maybe they don't see the need to advertise them since people will be tuning in for Mox and Matt Hardy.


----------



## bdon

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes sir. It is a travesty but who knows maybe they don't see the need to advertise them since people will be tuning in for Mox and Matt Hardy.


Yay. Let’s attach our wagon to WWE castoffs.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> Yay. Let’s attach our wagon to WWE castoffs.


WWE castoffs lol?


----------



## PavelGaborik

bdon said:


> Yay. Let’s attach our wagon to WWE castoffs.


Mox literally left WWE on his own terms while the WWE was trying extremely hard to re-sign him.

They also reportedly offered Matt Hardy a huge contract and he chose to leave. Castoffs is not the right word to use here.


----------



## bdon

Castoffs is the wrong word. 

But the point remains, you are conditioning your target audience to NOT care about Page, Pac, Omega, the Bucks, etc. If you don’t have the Machine’s built-in fanbase, then you are just filler for the WWE guys’ story.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Yay. Let’s attach our wagon to WWE castoffs.


Worked for WWF with wcw rejects; Austin, Foley, hhh


----------



## rbl85

Since AEW started it's not the best show on paper who does the best ratings.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Do a lot of their talent have it in their contracts to not perform the Dynamite following a PPV? Wasn't the show after Full Gear similar in that it seemed lile it was thrown together? Seems you would want to capitalize on PPV momentum rather than not acting on it.


----------



## FatAbomination

Google trends interest abnormally high heading into Dynamite, they've done a good job building up interest, but as we've seen before, these Big Swole matches, Chuck Taylor singles matches etc. can turn the tide of the momentum very quickly. 

Google interest is usually 2:1 in favor for AEW over NXT, heading into tonight's show, it's well over 3:1 for AEW. Obviously, by no means a perfect predictor, but when the difference is that significant, it should suggest something.


----------



## The Wood

It's pretty obvious that Tony Khan desperately wants to get the silly/bad elements of AEW over. I guess the thinking is that if they can get their worst qualities past a certain line, the good stuff will help raise it even more? They really want to expand the niche instead of appealing to people who might be interested in sensibly put together wrestling. It's interesting from a removed perspective, but I think it will end up disastrous and worthy of mock down the line.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It's pretty obvious that Tony Khan desperately wants to get the silly/bad elements of AEW over. I guess the thinking is that if they can get their worst qualities past a certain line, the good stuff will help raise it even more? They really want to expand the niche instead of appealing to people who might be interested in sensibly put together wrestling. It's interesting from a removed perspective, but I think it will end up disastrous and worthy of mock down the line.


Wrong thread


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Wrong thread


No, that was in reply to Mr. Abomination.


----------



## RiverFenix

Bloody Warpath said:


> Do a lot of their talent have it in their contracts to not perform the Dynamite following a PPV? Wasn't the show after Full Gear similar in that it seemed lile it was thrown together? Seems you would want to capitalize on PPV momentum rather than not acting on it.


Nick Jackson's wife was due to give birth any day so they couldn't book the Bucks in anything - it's why Nick completely missed the show. Kenny Omega is injured with potentially a broken hand, so they couldn't book Hangman/Omega and with Hangman proud and focused on tag titles really couldn't book him in a singles match as that would be out of current character for him. So only EVP who could have been booked and wasn't was Cody. Matt Jackson and Hangman of course were used but not in a way that could have been pre-announced.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

I thought the show was weaker than the last few weeks. I think that plus the 2 cage match NXT episode will hurt them. I wouldn't be surprised if NXT won this week or it's a close loss. Archer "should" debut next week since he didn't this week and Lee will be in Rochester and then it's B&G in Jersey. Things should pick up soon. I think this episode was more story build for B&G than fallout from Revo and those shows might struggle in the ratings.


----------



## RiverFenix

I don't think the women's cage match will matter in the ratings/viewership. Also having two cage matches a couple weeks after AEW debuted their monster cage in a big Atlanta arena - the NXT cage in Full Sail looked dinky. Roddy/Dream in a cage vs Allin vs Jericho/Sammy will be interesting to see. I can't imagine AEW losing that Q-Hour either with Jericho, Mox and Allin all booked in the ME and the episode long story arc of Jericho potentially having to leave for 60-days if Mox left standing. NXT fraudulently juices it's numbers with the over run each week.


----------



## Aedubya

Guessing 0.91


----------



## RapShepard

875K - 1 million for AEW
659K - 745k for NXT


----------



## Aedubya

?


----------



## Aedubya

RapShepard said:


> 875K - 1 million for AEW
> 659K - 745k for AEW


?


----------



## RapShepard

Aedubya said:


> ?


NXT is bottom lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

Prediction

950k AEW
750k NXT


----------



## Stevieg786

When are ratings out?


----------



## FatAbomination

Stevieg786 said:


> When are ratings out?


A little over an hour from now.

Both shows should be up, AEW got a 130k viewership bump for the post Full Gear show, if they get that kind of a bump, that'd put them around the 1 million range which would be significant for them. I don't think they'll hit a million, but anything less than 920k has to be seen as a disappointment. NXT should be up with the double cage matches, AEW got a pretty good bump for Cody/Wardlow, you'd think it'd be similar here.

I'll say 930k AEW, 790k NXT.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I'm gonna say Moxley holding the title for first time will push them above a million this week. 650k for NXT


----------



## IamMark

AEW 906k-0.35 #5
NXT 718k-0.23 #20


----------



## MrThortan

Nice! A small bump for AEW. Looks like NXT lost a few. Both measures are small though. Optimistic AEW will break a million by the end of the year.


----------



## FatAbomination

That's pretty disappointing from AEW, however, strong demo number.

The NXT number is embarrassing, 2 cage matches and that's all they could muster?


----------



## AEWMoxley

I think my post from last night during the show will turn out to be accurate once the quarter hour breakdown comes out - Dark Order and Big Swole match obliterated the momentum from the opening segment and lost a ton of viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The card on paper was jobber filled. A better card and advertising Jake and I think they could have hit a mil.


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> The card on paper was jobber filled. A better card and advertising Jake and I think they could have hit a mil.


Not sure the Jake promo works as well advertised but you might be right that it would have drew a few old school fans in.


----------



## fabi1982

Really sad, with a good show they could have cracked the million. Pretty sure they started close to that and then the show went down the toilette...


----------



## bdon

Awesome number.


----------



## Pippen94

IamMark said:


> AEW 906k-0.35 #5
> NXT 718k-0.23 #20
> 
> View attachment 83455
> 
> View attachment 83456


Aew fan base not that big yet - plenty of time to build. People being impatient


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Really sad, with a good show they could have cracked the million. Pretty sure they started close to that and then the show went down the toilette...


Exactly why I was so pissed last night. After such a hot ppv and Mox finally getting the belt, you should have rode the wave of that and put your best on display last night.

Lots of new eyes likely on the product, and you put SCU, Dark Order, Colt fucking Cabana, QT Marshall, Big Swole and a Librarian on tv for those new eyes to soak up what is going on in AEW.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Death Rider said:


> Not sure the Jake promo works as well advertised but you might be right that it would have drew a few old school fans in.



You could have said he was gonna be there. I mean look at the card..QT, Chuck Taylor, Big Swole, the Librarian? I mean eek. The show ended up alright with the Cody and Jake stuff and the main event, and I know they're probably gonna stack blood and guts, but this felt like a missed opportunity to me to do a killer number, not that the number was bad or anything.


----------



## FatAbomination

I know it's the AEW thread, but my god, that NXT number is shockingly bad.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Lots of new eyes likely on the product, and you put SCU, Dark Order, Colt fucking Cabana, QT Marshall, Big Swole and a Librarian on tv for those new eyes to soak up what is going on in AEW.


This really underscores the weakness of their roster. That these people are getting any sort of TV time is incredible. Even more incredible when the Dark Order and the Librarian take up a combined 30 minutes.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Exactly why I was so pissed last night. After such a hot ppv and Mox finally getting the belt, you should have rode the wave of that and put your best on display last night.
> 
> Lots of new eyes likely on the product, and you put SCU, Dark Order, Colt fucking Cabana, QT Marshall, Big Swole and a Librarian on tv for those new eyes to soak up what is going on in AEW.


Especially with a better ppv buy number than Full Gear having 50k people less watching really shows this show was not the right way to move forwars


----------



## RiverFenix

Released card sucked. Q-Hours will be very interesting. Dark Order gets pushed on social media, Matt Hardy released a vid with Bucks in it earlier in the day and then Dark Order jobbed out to SCU and Colt in a basic television match. They're slow walking this Dark Order stuff ridiculously now - pretty soon they're going to reach a tipping point where people who are still trying to care will feel constantly burned by the storyline and tune it out regardless. 

It was a good show, but AEW still struggles to book any of it's undercard. Unless one of the EVP's or Moxley are involved booking sputters as an obvious afterthought. I think a secondary title might be what the company needs - it's a cheap crutch, but it's a necessary one. 

Imagine MJF with a title rather than that ring for example.


----------



## RainmakerV2

AEWMoxley said:


> This really underscores the weakness of their roster. That these people are getting any sort of TV time is incredible. Even more incredible when the Dark Order and the Librarian take up a combined 30 minutes.



Why does Hager need to squash QT Marshall? Let MJF beat up on someone to get him on the show and advertised. Hangman and one of the Jacksons were there right? Do a match between those two and then Hangman flips Jackson off afterwards when he goes on for the handshake. Just seemed like a weird night to leave all these guys unadvertised.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I think my post from last night during the show will turn out to be accurate once the quarter hour breakdown comes out - Dark Order and Big Swole match obliterated the momentum from the opening segment and lost a ton of viewers.


I don't think so.

We'll see but i Don't think that the first quarter did more than 1M

And even if Q1 did 1M+ it would need something around 1.2M to do 1M overall


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> This really underscores the weakness of their roster. That these people are getting any sort of TV time is incredible. Even more incredible when the Dark Order and the Librarian take up a combined 30 minutes.


They literally put the worst of their roster on display last night in big time frames. Those are moments, with the world tuning into see Dean Ambrose’s first night as champion, where you have to put MJF on a live mic, Page and Matt Jackson in a larger segment than a single“fuck you”, Pac in a squash match with a promo bitching about having to lower himself to OC’s level, etc.

Total missed opportunity.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> We'll see but i Don't think that the first quarter did more than 1M


You don't think Dark Order and the Librarian match lost a ton of viewers? I'll bet you that they lost at least 150K viewers combined.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Exactly why I was so pissed last night. After such a hot ppv and Mox finally getting the belt, you should have rode the wave of that and put your best on display last night.
> 
> Lots of new eyes likely on the product, and you put SCU, Dark Order, Colt fucking Cabana, QT Marshall, Big Swole and a Librarian on tv for those new eyes to soak up what is going on in AEW.


honestly this pissed me off

they had a chance to make new fans. when this happens PUT ON YOUR BEST SHOW POSSIBLE.

i wonder if someone else booked this show. the guys who were booking when aew was doing like 600k


----------



## FatAbomination

Instead of promoting Big Swole and QT Marshall matches, why didn't they put out graphics like "Jake Hager in action", "Cody Speaks After His Loss", "Moxley Opens Dynamite To Address title win" etc.

A giant swing and a miss from a promotional standpoint that surely cost them viewers.

I didn't even think last nights show was bad, thought it was pretty good actually, but still.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You don't think Dark Order and the Librarian match lost a ton of viewers? I'll bet you that they lose at least 150K viewers combined.


Librarian match lasted 3min so no.

Dark Order ? maybe.


----------



## bdon

I’m going to call 1 million for the first quarter as everyone is expecting a proper fallout show.

After that, I could hear the channels changing.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I’m going to call 1 million for the first quarter as everyone is expecting a proper fallout show.
> 
> After that, I could hear the channels changing.


The first quarter would have needed to be around 1.2 for them to do more than 1M overall even with all the big names.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> honestly this pissed me off
> 
> they had a chance to make new fans. when this happens PUT ON YOUR BEST SHOW POSSIBLE.
> 
> i wonder if someone else booked this show. the guys who were booking when aew was doing like 600k


Im not even saying it had to be a PPV like show, but there's no excuse for not having Hangman, MJF etc not even advertised on the show. Was Cody's promo even advertised? I didnt remember seeing it.


----------



## The Wood

If this doesn’t tell you that the AEW is locked, then I don’t know what will.


----------



## RiverFenix

FatAbomination said:


> Instead of promoting Big Swole and QT Marshall matches, why didn't they put out graphics like "Jake Hager in action", "Cody Speaks After His Loss", "Moxley Opens Dynamite To Address title win" etc.
> 
> A giant swing and a miss from a promotional standpoint that surely cost them viewers.
> 
> I didn't even think last nights show was bad, thought it was pretty good actually, but still.


While I agree with your marketing suggestions, I think the "for wrestlers by wrestlers" booking probably doesn't allow AEW to essentially shit over Marshall, Bates by hiding them from promotional material. I mean it's a catch-22, if you do treat them as lessers and hide them from promotional material than fans see them as lessers and not worth tuning in for. If you promote them as reason to tune in then maybe fans start to see them in a more positive light. 

Swole vs Bates should be a DARK match, however you can't build new stars if you're hiding them away on youtube. Fans see wrestlers on television and they start to see and accept them as stars. At least it was quick - same with Hager vs Marshall, AEW learned there that not everybody needs 10 minute matches - even if I bet they hate having to do it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why does Hager need to squash QT Marshall? Let MJF beat up on someone to get him on the show and advertised. Hangman and one of the Jacksons were there right? Do a match between those two and then Hangman flips Jackson off afterwards when he goes on for the handshake. Just seemed like a weird night to leave all these guys unadvertised.


MJF had a great promo, but was only on the show for 2 minutes, which is insane.

The segment placement was hilarious, too. In between the opener and the Jake segment you had Dark Order and the Librarian. In between the Jake segment and the main event you had a Chuck Taylor match and a QT Marshall match. Anytime any momentum could be built, they had 30 minutes of jobbers to crush that momentum.


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> While I agree with your marketing suggestions, I think the "for wrestlers by wrestlers" booking probably doesn't allow AEW to essentially shit over Marshall, Bates by hiding them from promotional material. I mean it's a catch-22, if you do treat them as lessers and hide them from promotional material than fans see them as lessers and not worth tuning in for. If you promote them as reason to tune in then maybe fans start to see them in a more positive light.
> 
> Swole vs Bates should be a DARK match, however you can't build new stars if you're hiding them away on youtube. Fans see wrestlers on television and they start to see and accept them as stars. At least it was quick - same with Hager vs Marshall, AEW learned there that not everybody needs 10 minute matches - even if I bet they hate having to do it.


While I hated them putting out that card last night, I can say that Norman fucking Smiley got over at one point in WCW by being presented as credible.

And on that note, I can’t help but think having a guy like Spears in a match against a Luchasaurus wouldn’t have been a great call if you were going to do random matches last night.


----------



## Erik.

It's a steady rise. 

Consistent programming is doing it - proving that Moxley is a draw too.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im not even saying it had to be a PPV like show, but there's no excuse for not having Hangman, MJF etc not even advertised on the show. Was Cody's promo even advertised? I didnt remember seeing it.


they didn't need to advertise for last night's show IMO. People would've heard about Moxley becoming the AEW champion. The natural interest is there. However, what they should've definitely not done is give us the bottom of the barrel crap that nobody wanted.

What they needed to do is have their consistent drawers on the show. Hangman should've had a match or a sit down interview. Omega should've been there. Perhaps a sit-down interview with both leading to a fall out of some sort.
Jurassic Express needed to be there. Luchasaurus vs Jake Hager - PPV worthy match to capture everyone's attention.
They needed to announce the War Games match officially - all the competitors involved. There was no mention of Blood and Guts which was a shame.
Moxley should've been featured throughout the whole show in some capacity.
There needed to be a debut.
MJF should've done a celebration party - maybe through the whole evening. He's undefeated in AEW - make that a big deal. Him and Wardlow could've exchanged gifts. They could've had a stripper come in. Hangman would be in the background guzzling on beer etc. Very wwe-ish but this sort of thing is a proven draw.


----------



## AEWMoxley

MJF said:


> It's a steady rise.
> 
> Consistent programming is doing it - proving that Moxley is a draw too.


It's not that it was a bad number, but it could have been better if they hid the weakness of their roster. You can't have 30 consecutive minutes of Dark Order followed by the Librarian, and then later on in the show another 30 consecutive minutes of Chuck Taylor followed by QT Marshall.

Not everyone needs to appear on Dynamite. That's what AEW Dark is for.

Also, use MJF a lot more. The guy has been on TV for a combined 2 minutes in the last 2 weeks.


----------



## bdon

So, I hate to be that guy, buuuuuut...

Did Cody book Mox’s Championship show in a shitty way...on purpose?


----------



## Pippen94

AEWMoxley said:


> It's not that it was a bad number, but it could have been better if they hid the weakness of their roster. You can't have 30 consecutive minutes of Dark Order followed by the Librarian, and then later on in the show another 30 consecutive minutes of Chuck Taylor followed by QT Marshall.
> 
> Not everyone needs to appear on Dynamite. That's what AEW Dark is for.
> 
> Also, use MJF a lot more. The guy has been on TV for a combined 2 minutes in the last 2 weeks.


I agree with your points, but we don't know if they impacted ratings. What happened week before probably more important then last night. Like the show last year with dark order run in - how can you tune out if you don't know it's coming?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> So, I hate to be that guy, buuuuuut...
> 
> Did Cody book Mox’s Championship show in a shitty way...on purpose?


Boom. How do you not advertise Codys reaction to MJF beating him? Literally the biggest angle outside of Mox.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> If this doesn’t tell you that the AEW is locked, then I don’t know what will.


I know you claim this in a provocative way, but you raise a good question. 
How can AEW improve his audience?

I would like to know how many people who watch Raw and SD are watching Dynamite?
How many people watch Dynamite only?
For the Americans here watching WWE, does the AEW keep doing commercials during Raw and SmackDown?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> So, I hate to be that guy, buuuuuut...
> 
> Did Cody book Mox’s Championship show in a shitty way...on purpose?


this is too cynical for me lmao

Moxley's booking was just about acceptable. It was all the other shit that happened. Whoever booked this show clearly has no idea how to book post-ppv shows when there's ALWAYS a renewed interest after title changes


----------



## bdon

Why else was there no advertisements about Cody or MJF’s reactions to their match? Why else are all 4 competitors from the greatest tag match of all-time not advertised?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

There just shouldn't be a segment on the show without one or more of Jericho, Mox, MJF, Cody, Hangman/Omega, Young Bucks, Pac, OC/Trent, etc... in it. Im not saying they are all draws all the time or anything but they are not embarrassing like the shit they put out last night.

The women should be on Dark weekly, they can have a match on the PPV four times a year but otherwise they should NEVER be on Dynamite.

Just a bad deal. Wish they would hire a writer. It is obvious that favoritism is happening when idiots like QT Marshall, Chuck Taylor, and Colt Cabana are on national TV.


----------



## French Connection

It will be interesting to check the quarters. But even if the NBA was in front, I can imagine AEW doing a decent second hours ratings.
FOX lost 4M viewers at 9pm and 2.5M for CBS.


----------



## Purple Haze

They dropped the ball with the advertised card, but that's a good number. 
And NXT flopped.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Why else was there no advertisements about Cody or MJF’s reactions to their match? Why else are all 4 competitors from the greatest tag match of all-time not advertised?


A certainly fun tag match, but that sounds exaggerated


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> A certainly fun tag match, but that sounds exaggerated


And yet...plenty are saying that very thing.

It was good enough that Jim Cornette, who literally hates the Bucks and Omega as people and wrestlers, talked about how he actually liked it.

It’s the best tag match ever. Story, emotion, intensity, selling, psychology. 5 years worth of intertwined stories, matches, friendships, etc across multiple continents interwoven into 30+ minutes of competition. 

If it isn’t the great, then it is certainly one of the 5-10 greatest ever.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> And yet...plenty are saying that very thing.
> 
> It was good enough that Jim Cornette, who literally hates the Bucks and Omega as people and wrestlers, talked about how he actually liked it.
> 
> It’s the best tag match ever. Story, emotion, intensity, selling, psychology. 5 years worth of intertwined stories, matches, friendships, etc across multiple continents interwoven into 30+ minutes of competition.
> 
> If it isn’t the great, then it is certainly one of the 5-10 greatest ever.


Yeah it's definitely a great match, but not even a week later seems prisoner of the moment. Idk greatest ever and high accolades are just tossed out too easily.


----------



## Crowleys

It's crazy but I think MJF flipping the kid off helped with ratings too. There were memes everywhere. People that were offended by it wouldn't tune in, but they aren't the type of audience AEW needs. Plus the possibility of Matt Hardy showing up too..


----------



## Ozell Gray

So they'e not seeing any new viewers at all its just the same 800-900,000 viewers watching weekly. This will hurt them in the long run, because they won't attract new viewers because the viewership is staying the same with no growth. And these viewership numbers will only decline in the future.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Pippen94 said:


> I agree with your points, but we don't know if they impacted ratings. What happened week before probably more important then last night. Like the show last year with dark order run in - how can you tune out if you don't know it's coming?


You can turn the channel during an uninteresting segment. For example - Dark Order, the Librarian, and Chuck Taylor have lost tons of viewers in their segments before. I don't remember if QT Marshall was ever on Dynamite prior to last night, but he's a jobber - it's likely he drover viewers away too.


----------



## MetalKiwi

I think the Blood and Guts show will bring them to 1M again.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> So they'e not seeing any new viewers at all its just the same 800-900,000 viewers watching weekly. This will hurt them in the long run, because they won't attract new viewers because the viewership is staying the same with no growth. And these viewership numbers will only decline in the future.


Company hasn't been around long - has plenty of time to build. People expect immediate growth but a lot potential casual viewers don't even know they exist. Give it time.


----------



## RiverFenix

MetalKiwi said:


> I think the Blood and Guts show will bring them to 1M again.


It will be up against the NXT Wrestlemania go-home show.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Company hasn't been around long - has plenty of time to build. People expect immediate growth but a lot potential casual viewers don't even know they exist. Give it time.
> 
> They won't grow because they're catering to a niche audience (iwc). They're satisfied with their niche audience and don't want to grow it because they don't want casuals they only want the iwc Cody Rhodes Says AEW Won't Cater To 'Casual Fans' On TNT
> 
> They'll remain a small time promotion because they're viewership is stagnant and attendance is going down. So when you group all of this together they're viewership will decline in the future.


----------



## Pippen94

I don't remember saying that 2nd bit.. Just kidding
That's the thing - hardcores know it exists but company hasn't had great exposure yet. Having signed a longterm deal with TNT aew has time to build a mainstream audience if that's what they want. From what I hear company already profitable. TV & ppv as is probably more valuable than return atm


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> I don't remember saying that 2nd bit.. Just kidding
> That's the thing - hardcores know it exists but company hasn't had great exposure yet. Having signed a longterm deal with TNT aew has time to build a mainstream audience if that's what they want.





Pippen94 said:


> I don't remember saying that 2nd bit.. Just kidding
> That's the thing - hardcores know it exists but company hasn't had great exposure yet. Having signed a longterm deal with TNT aew has time to build a mainstream audience if that's what they want.


You're good man its just a disagreement. 

You're right they can grow if they cater to the casuals but the issue is they're so bent on not wanting casuals as Cody said and only want a hardcore fanbase which is a niche audience. Since mangement doesn't want the casuals it'll remain a small promotion, because they're catering to the iwc which is the wrong thing to do because the iwc are a minority. 

Take WWE for instance they grew to be the industry's leader because they appealled to casuals and still has the biggest audience biggest it appeals to casuals. 

I haven't watched any wrestling in 2.5 years. I only keep up with it by reading whats going on on the internet. And what I've read is that every company is awful right now and thats why the sport is dying slowly.


----------



## kingfrass44

MetalKiwi said:


> I think the Blood and Guts show will bring them to 1M again.


Hype special It does not mean anything
This is a normal fanBase rate 9000000


----------



## bdon

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!

I forgot to say something!!!

“10% margin of error!!!”


----------



## FatAbomination

Quarter hour breakdowns are in for last weeks show.

Omega and PAC in the iron man match did really well, opened at 896k and gained viewers as the match went on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@bdon - you’ve jumped the shark again with your Cody booking comments 

we going to have to sit through posts and posts about him ‘getting comfortable in his wrestling skin’ now again?  

c’mon mate


----------



## V-Trigger

Quarter ratings from last week.

Q1: Kenny vs Pac = 896K
Q2: 2nd part of Kenny vs Pac = 965K
Q3: Kenny vs Pac in overtime, Pac interview, OC shows up = 967k
Q4: Jurassic Express vs IC= 798k
Q5: Best Friends vs BBB, Tony interviews Best Friends = 803K
Q6: Hikaru vs Yuka vs Shanna vs Swole = 818K
Q7: Elite sitdown interview, Revolution videopackages = 783K
Q8: Weight in segment = 893K

Between this and the Tag Match Omega haters are going to have a bad week.


----------



## patpat

Q1: Kenny vs Pac = 896K
Q2: 2nd part of Kenny vs Pac = 965K
Kenny omega isnt a draw right?? The guy wrestled for half an hour and literally put them close to the million. I dont know what happened here, but the people HERE who want to shit all over omega for nor being a star needs to shut up eternally. Omega as a single is a draw, people simply dont care about the tag team stuff.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Yeah it's definitely a great match, but not even a week later seems prisoner of the moment. Idk greatest ever and high accolades are just tossed out too easily.


Tag Title match receives 6 stars









AEW Revolution PPV Match Gets A Six-Star Rating - PWMania - Wrestling News


The Kenny Omega and Adam Page vs. Young Bucks match from AEW Revolution received a six-star rating by longtime wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer. It is the first AEW match to receive a six-star rating with the previous highest-rated match being Young Bucks vs. Lucha...




www.pwmania.com





Are there any other 6 Star tag matches in history? But Omega hasn’t had a great match in 2 years and is washed up at 36 years old.


----------



## Chairshot620

The Wood said:


> If this doesn’t tell you that the AEW is locked, then I don’t know what will.


Slow sustained growth is what they need now. Say if the baseline viewership is 800,000, and on average they gain 1% weekly (they may gain more and lose some here and there), that would be a growth in viewers of approximately 400,000 annually. They need to do that over the course of the current TV deal and try to peak near the end to get larger rights fees. To me that’s better than popping to 1,000,000 then coming down by 150,000.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## patpat

Reminder 
In the very short history of aew, only two men were able to beat Jericho segments ( without being involved with him). Kenny omega in a tag match with hangman page which was already posted here. Kenny omega in a single iron man match ( a usual rating killer) vs pac ( someone who is confirmed not a good draw as of now _it can always change and frankly I think he could pull it off_) 
So clearly there is something in the idea of Kenny omega being presented as a big star and a big special attraction that drives people in.
You can dislike someone ( in fact ratings arent even an argument for taste) but to deny facts is something else. Clearly the tag thing isnt gonna make him draw people want to see omega as a single wrestler. 
And I wonder how the usual suspect here who always use ratings to drag omega down will cope with the fact that omega with pac ( which he also called a geek) brought in more than 100k people for their match beating Moxley and Jericho.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Librarian match lasted 3min so no.
> 
> Dark Order ? maybe.


People can tune out right away.



bdon said:


> So, I hate to be that guy, buuuuuut...
> 
> Did Cody book Mox’s Championship show in a shitty way...on purpose?


It’s possible. I’ve suspected insecurities in The Elite group. I think Cody lets Omega and The Bucks book shit so he can look good in comparison. But I think it’s more likely Cody wants Mox strong so that he can get the rub from him down the line. But maybe he wants to book him down so that a heel turn is possible for Mo



French Connection said:


> I know you claim this in a provocative way, but you raise a good question.
> How can AEW improve his audience?
> 
> I would like to know how many people who watch Raw and SD are watching Dynamite?
> How many people watch Dynamite only?
> For the Americans here watching WWE, does the AEW keep doing commercials during Raw and SmackDown?


It’s no big mystery. Do good pro-wrestling. Simple things that make sense. Good talent. Fire the jokes. Focus on the guys 



Ozell Gray said:


> So they'e not seeing any new viewers at all its just the same 800-900,000 viewers watching weekly. This will hurt them in the long run, because they won't attract new viewers because the viewership is staying the same with no growth. And these viewership numbers will only decline in the future.


Bingo. This is the fear about AEW that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders at. 



patpat said:


> Q1: Kenny vs Pac = 896K
> Q2: 2nd part of Kenny vs Pac = 965K
> Kenny omega isnt a draw right?? The guy wrestled for half an hour and literally put them close to the million. I dont know what happened here, but the people HERE who want to shit all over omega for nor being a star needs to shut up eternally. Omega as a single is a draw, people simply dont care about the tag team stuff.


Or maybe they tuned in to get to the end of the match? 



Chairshot620 said:


> Slow sustained growth is what they need now. Say if the baseline viewership is 800,000, and on average they gain 1% weekly (they may gain more and lose some here and there), that would be a growth in viewers of approximately 400,000 annually. They need to do that over the course of the current TV deal and try to peak near the end to get larger rights fees. To me that’s better than popping to 1,000,000 then coming down by 150,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That would be excellent...if they were doing that.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Tag Title match receives 6 stars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Revolution PPV Match Gets A Six-Star Rating - PWMania - Wrestling News
> 
> 
> The Kenny Omega and Adam Page vs. Young Bucks match from AEW Revolution received a six-star rating by longtime wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer. It is the first AEW match to receive a six-star rating with the previous highest-rated match being Young Bucks vs. Lucha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwmania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other 6 Star tag matches in history? But Omega hasn’t had a great match in 2 years and is washed up at 36 years old.


In all fairness this ratings scale lost all meaning when Melzer started going above 5 stars. So no way any other 5 star tag from the past wont be more than 5 stars now


----------



## kingfrass44

patpat said:


> Reminder
> In the very short history of aew, only two men were able to beat Jericho segments ( without being involved with him). Kenny omega in a tag match with hangman page which was already posted here. Kenny omega in a single iron man match ( a usual rating killer) vs pac ( someone who is confirmed not a good draw as of now _it can always change and frankly I think he could pull it off_)
> So clearly there is something in the idea of Kenny omega being presented as a big star and a big special attraction that drives people in.
> You can dislike someone ( in fact ratings arent even an argument for taste) but to deny facts is something else. Clearly the tag thing isnt gonna make him draw people want to see omega as a single wrestler.
> And I wonder how the usual suspect here who always use ratings to drag omega down will cope with the fact that omega with pac ( which he also called a geek) brought in more than 100k people for their match beating Moxley and Jericho.


omega with pac only reason opening
Something natural opening Be the highest views
A match at the opening is not a measure
losing Views Then it is not in opening
geek It will never draw And you are trying to deceive yourself 
Kenny is not a big star and He is losing Views
Moxley and Jericho It is not opening


----------



## bdon

Pac typically loses 70-80k viewers.


----------



## patpat

kingfrass44 said:


> omega with pac only reason opening
> geek It will never draw


No geek 
The first quarter of the match opened strong, then they went to 965k in the second one meaning that they were getting viewers in and the last quarter of the match + the sudden death got 2000 more. Clearly the match did huge ratings. People were interested and tuned in to see a star getting back to his prime and it delivered, it was the highest point of the show beating Jericho and mox. This rarely ever happens


----------



## Illogical

The Wood said:


> Bingo. This is the fear about AEW that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders at.


Serious question: if that's the case, what the fuck do you want us to do about it? Want to complain to someone and give them your marvelous ideas; call up Cody, Tony, etc.. They're doing good now. A bunch of people do in fact enjoy the show. You've said your peace. Go away.

Also some serious backpedaling from things you said even a month ago.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

kingfrass44 said:


> omega with pac only reason opening
> Something natural opening Be the highest views
> A match at the opening is not a measure
> losing Views Then it is not in opening
> geek It will never draw And you are trying to deceive yourself
> Kenny is not a big star and He is losing Views
> Moxley and Jericho It is not opening


Bro this argument has already been proven as false. You should drop this argument now and accept defeat.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Tag Title match receives 6 stars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Revolution PPV Match Gets A Six-Star Rating - PWMania - Wrestling News
> 
> 
> The Kenny Omega and Adam Page vs. Young Bucks match from AEW Revolution received a six-star rating by longtime wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer. It is the first AEW match to receive a six-star rating with the previous highest-rated match being Young Bucks vs. Lucha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwmania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other 6 Star tag matches in history? But Omega hasn’t had a great match in 2 years and is washed up at 36 years old.


Isn't Meltzer friends with all 4 though? Again not saying it's bad, because it's certainly not. But if it's all time greatness depends on their friend and a guy who is breaking his own rating system frequently now, then maybe that should be taken with a grain of salt. 

Hell it's not even relegated to this match, this over rating everything happens for NXT too. Like sheesh can folk like anything anymore without immediately calling it the best thing ever lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Isn't Meltzer friends with all 4 though? Again not saying it's bad, because it's certainly not. But if it's all time greatness depends on their friend and a guy who is breaking his own rating system frequently now, then maybe that should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Hell it's not even relegated to this match, this over rating everything happens for NXT too. Like sheesh can folk like anything anymore without immediately calling it the best thing ever lol.


I think ratings should be taken with a grain of salt at all times. What makes his opinion more important than say, yours or mine?

I enjoyed the match but is it one that I’ll remember in 10 years time? Nope. There’s only a handful of matches I remember from 10+ years ago and to me, that’s all that matters.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> I think ratings should be taken with a grain of salt at all times. What makes his opinion more important than say, yours or mine?


I think they are fun. I just don't get the over abundance of exaggerating in general lol.


----------



## MoxAsylum

bdon said:


> Pac typically loses 70-80k viewers.


Cause he’s very bland


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MoxAsylum said:


> Cause he’s very bland


In what way is PAC bland? Bland wrestlers are guys like QT Marshall and Ricochet.


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> And I wonder how the usual suspect here who always use ratings to drag omega down will cope with the fact that omega with pac ( which he also called a geek) brought in more than 100k people for their match beating Moxley and Jericho.


This fanbase is absolutely adorable.

First, your math is wrong. They gained around 70K, not 100K. The only 100K+ gainers of the night were Moxley and Jericho, as is usually the case.

Second, I'm glad Pac and Omega were finally able to pull their weight and stop bleeding tens of thousands of viewers. I believe this is the first time either of these guys have gained viewers without being involved with either Moxley or Jericho. If they can continue to actually do their jobs and generate some interest like they are being paid to, Dynamite is much better off. But both Pac and Omega have literally been losing anywhere from 50K-80K viewers every week. They've got a long way to go before they are gaining viewers consistently, especially outside of gimmick matches. Even Marko Stunt was able to have _one_ segment that gained viewers.


----------



## FatAbomination

The Wood said:


> Or maybe they tuned in to get to the end of the match?


Nah, the match opened strong and held viewers and gained through out. Start of Q2 would've been around the 11 minute mark of the match, so it's still pretty early for them to gain as significantly as they did. And when the match ended and they went into the following quarter, they lost a good amount of viewers, not even to NXT, just people that turned off the show.

We need more consistency out of Omega, but this match doing well is a good sign.


----------



## MoxAsylum

optikk sucks said:


> In what way is PAC bland? Bland wrestlers are guys like QT Marshall and Ricochet.


Pac is hot garbage


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> We need more consistency out of Omega


Not just Omega, but Pac, too. Both of them are supposed to be upper midcarders, and you need these guys to carry their weight. Page as well.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MoxAsylum said:


> Pac is hot garbage


hot garbage =/= bland

PAC might be hot garbage to you, but he's not bland.


----------



## FatAbomination

PAC has had to fought off the stench of being a giant GEEK in WWE for so long, he's starting to come around now.

I think with this new group, he's going to be viewed as more of a star, but we shall see.


----------



## patpat

FatAbomination said:


> PAC has had to fought off the stench of being a giant GEEK in WWE for so long, he's starting to come around now.
> 
> I think with this new group, he's going to be viewed as more of a star, but we shall see.


That's the shit I like to saw. With the lucha bro swagger and his promo style. They can be huuuge


----------



## bdon

I like the hell out of Pac. He’s a fantastic worker, but he just LOOKS like “a guy”. So, unless you want to stay around to watch AEW exclusively, then if you don’t know him, you’re more likely to switch the channel. Matches don’t typically draw. A live mic and character-driven segments do.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I like the hell out of Pac. He’s a fantastic worker, but he just LOOKS like “a guy”. So, unless you want to stay around to watch AEW exclusively, then if you don’t know him, you’re more likely to switch the channel. Matches don’t typically draw. A live mic and character-driven segments do.


No one is asking guys like him, or Omega, or Page, to be drawing 100K viewers each segment. Hell, they don't even need to draw 70K each segment like the iron man match did. But 5K-10K should be the bare minimum for guys in their position. It's losing 50K-80K each segment that hurts the show. Imagine the impact that going from losing 70K viewers almost every time, like the aforementioned guys have done, to gaining even 5K-10K. That's a swing of 80K. Overall viewership would have benefited greatly.

I think consistent gains of 5K-10K should be doable for anyone in the position of guys like Pac, Page, and Omega. They are presented as being well above everyone on the roster except for Moxley, Jericho, and Cody.


----------



## bdon

Where are their promos for new fans to know who they are?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Where are their promos for new fans to know who they are?


Pac has had several video packages with him explaining his motivations.

Omega has cut promos on Moxley, and had several character driven segments in the lead up to the match against The Bucks. Same with Page. Page cut promos on Jericho, too.


----------



## bdon

And...Omega gained viewers afterwards.

And no, Omega did not cut promos before Moxley match. Road To shit doesn’t count, because the shit was not on Dynamite and a live mic.

We know how this works. Live microphone, backstage segments, ratings draw.


----------



## bdon

They should just fire Omega, Pac, and Page. Make @AEWMoxley a happy girl.


----------



## FatAbomination

Omega literally didn't have a single promo in the lead up to the Moxley match outside of shit on YouTube, and no one watched that stuff. He had one goofy benching promo after.

They built up the Omega and PAC match through videos and whatnot, and it drew a big rating, that's how it should be done. Omega and Page opened at over a million for a match with SCU as well.

The only recent time they really shat the bed was the Lucha Bros. match, and generally speaking, you do lose viewers if you're coming off a hot angle/match that gained a ton of viewers, and that's exactly the position they were in coming off of Moxley/Cobb and the IC beatdown angle.

It's wait and see with Hangman and Omega, I think they are both turning the corner.


----------



## patpat

I know that omega has all of this planned because he is a maniac in long term thinking ( the dude bought the chips of don and the glass table of the first episode specifically to tell his long term story with mox) , but aew shouldnt sit there like fucking imbeciles and assume just because he can draw they have no work to do and fill the show with fucking garbage like Qt marshal matches big swole and whatever Shit they want to punish their audience with.
They still need to properly introduce the OG elite ( bucks + omega) they still have a lot of character building to do.
And seeing how they are booking their world champion, I am going to have faith in omega and the bucks only because apparently they are the only ones in that company worth of doing good storytelling. The rest seem to fail and fall flat on their own faces.

Sometimes aew it just seems like you have some smart guys and the rest are just marks idiot with no creativity.
Omega was able to push himself and draw through very simple tricks like his ring gear, his titantron, and his sheer talent and charisma. He didnt need a 40 minutes entrance every show to be seen as a star just to fuck all that with a dumb tattoo a cringe concerto entrance and stupidity like that. 
But guys like the bucks need more character building angles. Those guys carried revolution and created a buzz with their match and storytelling, omega literally draws beyond what he should even have the right to, yet we have to sit here and watch all the good segment and construction of the show to wwe guys who cant even bring them to one million viewers. I call bullshit. Fuck that mentality of the elite taking a seatback, put them all over the show and if they fail at least they would have tried.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> And...Omega gained viewers afterwards.
> 
> And no, Omega did not cut promos before Moxley match. Road To shit doesn’t count, because the shit was not on Dynamite and a live mic.
> 
> We know how this works. Live microphone, backstage segments, ratings draw.


Page and Omega had numerous backstage segments or sit down interviews with The Bucks over the last 3 months, and lost viewers in virtually every segment/match they had over that period.

Pac and Omega did gain a good amount in the iron man match, but that's an outlier. Do you think AEW and TNT are content with gaining 70K one time, and then losing 50K-80K every other time?

You really don't think a modest 5K-10K gain per segment is reasonable for all three of them? Even a loss of only 5K per segment would be an improvement.


----------



## FatAbomination

I think Omega is turning the corner now, the sitdown with the bucks was great last week, the iron-man match was spectacular and they put him over strong, and the Tag-match was incredible, and I really liked how they produced videos with quotes from various people talking about how good the match is, that's how people are presented when they are stars.

I think he's going to get there, you have to be patient with him, he's been on TV for 4 months, and the first 2 months were very questionable booking. It's not like Austin was a big needle mover by October of 1996, 4 months after the 3:16 promo.

Some guys are gonna get their faster than others, but just giving up on Omega after a couple of matches that didn't draw well is dumb, especially because he was booked so poorly the first 10 or so weeks.


----------



## shadows123

patpat said:


> I know that omega has all of this planned because he is a maniac in long term thinking ( the dude bought the chips of don and the glass table of the first episode specifically to tell his long term story with mox) , but aew shouldnt sit there like fucking imbeciles and assume just because he can draw they have no work to do and fill the show with fucking garbage like Qt marshal matches big swole and whatever Shit they want to punish their audience with.
> They still need to properly introduce the OG elite ( bucks + omega) they still have a lot of character building to do.
> And seeing how they are booking their world champion, I am going to have faith in omega and the bucks only because apparently they are the only ones in that company worth of doing good storytelling. The rest seem to fail and fall flat on their own faces.


I find it hilarious that on one hand, fans complain about the likes of Roman and Seth steamrolling and burying all the talent while on the otherhand also complain about using old and retired folks to put over existing talent without burying any of their existing younger talents.. Think about it, if they only book Omega and Bucks or Cody strongly how hardly would fans come down on them for them going the NWO way or Triple H's way of serving their own interests ahead of the other deserving ones..


----------



## FatAbomination

And backstage sitdown interviews always lose viewers, Drew Mcintyre's sit down tanked viewers on RAW a few weeks ago, but it's necessary to build characters and matches.


----------



## shadows123

AEWMoxley said:


> Page and Omega had numerous backstage segments or sit down interviews with The Bucks over the last 3 months, and lost viewers in virtually every segment/match they had over that period.
> 
> Pac and Omega did gain a good amount in the iron man match, but that's an outlier. Do you think AEW and TNT are content with gaining 70K one time, and then losing 50K-80K every other time?
> 
> You really don't think a modest 5K-10K gain per segment is reasonable for all three of them? Even a loss of only 5K per segment would be an improvement.


I would actually not have that many expectations with a new show.. I would have them with Wwe when paying the big bucks ...but with a new show and such a good demo, i would be pretty content and consider it as necessary investment for future growth..


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> Omega and Page opened at over a million for a match with SCU as well.


That match lost 70K viewers in the following quarter, though.



> It's wait and see with Hangman and Omega, I think they are both turning the corner.


That's impossible to say after only one match. For example, no one ever called Marko Stunt a draw because he gained viewers in one segment.


----------



## patpat

shadows123 said:


> I find it hilarious that on one hand, fans complain about the likes of Roman and Seth steamrolling and burying all the talent while on the otherhand also complain about using old and retired folks to put over existing talent without burying any of their existing younger talents.. Think about it, if they only book Omega and Bucks or Cody strongly how hardly would fans come down on them for them going the NWO way or Triple H's way of serving their own interests ahead of the other deserving ones..


The same fans who kept bitching about the elite burying themselves when they lost? The same fans who cried about omega being buried but started to call him john cena when he started to shine? 
Do you know how vincent mcmahon built his empire? Exactly by not listening to a minority of flip flop smark jabroni who change their opinion each week. The elite should be treated like the stars because they are the Elite in All Elite wreslting. Vince was ready to give omega 3.5 million dollar for his first contracts, they put him on the network before he even signed. So aew doesnt even have the right to fail with him or they will forever be known as that company that fucked up Kenny omega. And trust me this is going to be very difficult for them to get any big guy like osprey in the future if they have "ruining omega" on their resume. 
What has it done for them to not push the elite and supposedly put the highlight on "others"? They are still below one million and even a ppv bump + a title change did nothing for them. They are stagnating. Go back and watch this week's episode. 
Jericho lost the title and is still presented as a final villain, the top badass champion is being presented as an underdog and cutting the exact same "wwe babyface number 10000" promo of "this is your victory ww...I mean aew univer...I mean wrestling fans" 
Just push those guys and to hell with the consequences, at least you threw your biggest non wwe names out there.


----------



## bdon

FIRE OMEGA!!!


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> That match lost 70K viewers in the following quarter, though.
> 
> That's impossible to say after only one match. For example, no one ever called Marko Stunt a draw because he gained viewers in one segment.


Fan reaction, social media buzz, there's something brewing with the both of them. There aren't a lot of metrics to gauge outside of TV viewership, but you can't be overly obsessed that a guy is losing viewers for a brief period of time, if it continues in 6-8 months, you have a point.

Omega drew well with an Iron man match, a match that traditionally loses a lot of viewers and he was put over STRONG. Shits not going to happen over night, it's going to require consistent booking, his booking was god awful for 2 months.


----------



## shadows123

patpat said:


> The same fans who kept bitching about the elite burying themselves when they lost? The same fans who cried about omega being buried but started to call him john cena when he started to shine?
> Do you know how vincent mcmahon built his empire? Exactly by not listening to a minority of flip flop smark jabroni who change their opinion each week. The elite should be treated like the stars because they are the Elite in All Elite wreslting. Vince was ready to give omega 3.5 million dollar for his first contracts, they put him on the network before he even signed. So aew doesnt even have the right to fail with him or they will forever be known as that company that fucked up Kenny omega. And trust me this is going to be very difficult for them to get any big guy like osprey in the future if they have "ruining omega" on their resume.
> What has it done for them to not push the elite and supposedly put the highlight on "others"? They are still below one million and even a ppv bump + a title change did nothing for them. They are stagnating. Go back and watch this week's episode.
> Jericho lost the title and is still presented as a final villain, the top badass champion is being presented as an underdog and cutting the exact same "wwe babyface number 10000" promo of "this is your victory ww...I mean aew univer...I mean wrestling fans"
> Just push those guys and to hell with the consequences, at least you threw your biggest non wwe names out there.


First of all, AEW needed Jericho as a champion.. He was the most recognisable guy to bring in viewers ..He and Mox still are, not Cody or Young Bucks or Kenny ...They maybe over to a bit, but for the long run you build them up on the back of the most recognisable faces in the company i.e. Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho which is exactly what they are doing..and fyi..over pushing Triple H and later John Cena, in fact both side by side is probably what drove fans away from the product..Vince i wish didnt listen to fans if he landed Steve Austin or Rock and is pushing incessantly but in this case all he has is a bunch of jabronis who he has been trying non stop to shove down our throats..


----------



## bdon

Moxley used to draw over 2 million viewers. Why are his segments only doing slightly above shitty ass Kenny Omega?


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> Fan reaction, social media buzz, there's something brewing with the both of them. There aren't a lot of metrics to gauge outside of TV viewership, but you can't be overly obsessed that a guy is losing viewers for a brief period of time, if it continues in 6-8 months, you have a point.
> 
> Omega drew well with an Iron man match, a match that traditionally loses a lot of viewers and he was put over STRONG. Shits not going to happen over night, it's going to require consistent booking, his booking was god awful for 2 months.


Dynamite started 5 months ago. That's not a brief period. 

Fan and social media buzz has always been high for them. That's nothing new. It just hasn't translated into ratings, other than one outlier.

Pac and Omega both drew a good number for the iron man match, that's true. But again, it was an outlier. Let's see if they can do it week in and week out.

Guys like MJF and Cody have been doing way better numbers consistently for 3 months now. One guy was an absolute geek in WWE, and the other guy was completely unknown until a few months ago. Sorry, but I can't be impressed with a single segment gain, when others in their position have done much better.


----------



## patpat

shadows123 said:


> First of all, AEW needed Jericho as a champion.. He was the most recognisable guy to bring in viewers ..He and Mox still are, not Cody or Young Bucks or Kenny ...They maybe over to a bit, but for the long run you build them up on the back of the most recognisable faces in the company i.e. Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho which is exactly what they are doing..and fyi..over pushing Triple H and later John Cena, in fact both side by side is probably what drove fans away from the product..Vince i wish didnt listen to fans if he landed Steve Austin or Rock and is pushing incessantly but in this case all he has is a bunch of jabronis who he has been trying non stop to shove down our throats..


Bro dont worry I am not dumb. Jericho should have ABDOLUTELY been the first champ. And following it with mox is just putting one and one together. I have no issue with those two being the top for the time remaining. But doing that doesnt prevent them from building the elite correctly, the early booking of the elite was stupid. 
And aew needs to step up with their booking. You get your badass Idgaf guy as champ, and the first show following that is a cringe fest with leva bate, qt Marshall, you have the badass cut a nauseating crowd pandering wwe-babyface promo, and you still present him like some underdog. That's not Moxley, Moxley since day one was almost goldberg-esque in his booking, an unstoppable force of nature.
And the whole presenting y2j as a final villain even tho he lost the night prior. Maybe it's not the tight thread for this but aew's booking of the elite Moxley and Jericho has been very questionable particularly lately


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> Moxley used to draw over 2 million viewers. Why are his segments only doing slightly above shitty ass Kenny Omega?


Here I am going to defend mox. Becky lynch wouldnt draw 2 million on dynamite. There is a lot involving the timeslot the value of the brand etc. Its not the same but Moxley and Jericho did very good their job. Cant really attack them on that. Maybe you can say it's not enough for some but it's not bad at all, it's the contrary


----------



## AEWMoxley

shadows123 said:


> First of all, AEW needed Jericho as a champion.. He was the most recognisable guy to bring in viewers ..He and Mox still are, not Cody or Young Bucks or Kenny ...They maybe over to a bit, but for the long run you build them up on the back of the most recognisable faces in the company i.e. Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho which is exactly what they are doing..


In fact, without either Jericho or Moxley, Dynamite would be drawing 500K-600K. Some of The Elite fans may not like two former WWE guys dominating the promotion, but without them, the company would be significantly smaller than it is.

It's not a coincidence that the two least watched episodes were one in which Moxley had 1 minute of TV time and another in which he was entirely absent. Those shows drew around 650K. Take Jericho off of those episodes, and it's easy to see that they would be at 500K without the both of them.


----------



## FatAbomination

Some Omega Ratings -

1/15 -
It opened fairly close overall with 952,000 viewers for AEW with the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks vs. Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz tag match

Quarter two for AEW was the ending of the four-way tag plus the Cody interview, which gained 63,000 viewers and was the peak of the AEW show, but lost 7,000 in 18-49


1/22 -

In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 906,000 viewers and 474,000 in 18-49 for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky for the tag titles.

For the second quarter, AEW gained 22,000 viewers overall and 22,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the Omega & Page vs. Kazarian & Sky match.

2/5 -

AEW opened at 756,000 viewers and 375,000 in 18-49 for the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky match. 

AEW gained 42,000 overall and 21,000 in 18-49 in quarter two, the end of the tag title match and post-match, along with the Jim Ross interview with Santana and Darby Allin video.

This was the show where AEW had the weak lead in.

2/19 -
Iron Man Match Which has been covered, but it did very well.

Omega is more consistent than I had realized, just the Lucha Bros match didn't do well(and coming off of a hot angle that was a giant gainer, that is more common), and I couldn't find viewership for the 8-man tag that happened a few weeks ago, but I'd have to imagine that lost viewers as well.

So he gained in 4/6 of his last major appearances, if in fact that 8 man tag did lose viewers.


----------



## shadows123

patpat said:


> Bro dont worry I am not dumb. Jericho should have ABDOLUTELY been the first champ. And following it with mox is just putting one and one together. I have no issue with those two being the top for the time remaining. But doing that doesnt prevent them from building the elite correctly, the early booking of the elite was stupid.
> And aew needs to step up with their booking. You get your badass Idgaf guy as champ, and the first show following that is a cringe fest with leva bate, qt Marshall, you have the badass cut a nauseating crowd pandering wwe-babyface promo, and you still present him like some underdog. That's not Moxley, Moxley since day one was almost goldberg-esque in his booking, an unstoppable force of nature.
> And the whole presenting y2j as a final villain even tho he lost the night prior. Maybe it's not the tight thread for this but aew's booking of the elite Moxley and Jericho has been very questionable particularly lately


Jericho is not the final villain..they are building it up as a sort of a fluke win (as per the heel) which the heel wants to recorrect which is perfectly fine...And get over the Qt marshall stuff they are using it to put Jake Hager over..You know what Vince would've done today..they would have used MJF to put Jake Hager over, at least here its someone non impactful...


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> Dynamite started 5 months ago. That's not a brief period.
> 
> Fan and social media buzz has always been high for them. That's nothing new. It just hasn't translated into ratings, other than one outlier.
> 
> Pac and Omega both drew a good number for the iron man match, that's true. But again, it was an outlier. Let's see if they can do it week in and week out.
> 
> Guys like MJF and Cody have been doing way better numbers consistently for 3 months now. One guy was an absolute geek in WWE, and the other guy was completely unknown until a few months ago. Sorry, but I can't be impressed with a single segment gain, when others in their position have done much better.


MJF has been in an angle with Cody, and most of his big gains have involved being in segments with him, or that one segment with Jericho. MJF lost viewers in the match with Jungle boy, lost viewers for his promo on 1/1 as well.

Dynamite has been on for 5 months, but 2 of those months Omega was booked like a giant geek, he got the shit kicked out of him by The Dark Order. Starting on 1/1 is where I would say Omega began having star-quality booking.


----------



## bdon

FI


FatAbomination said:


> Some Omega Ratings -
> 
> 1/15 -
> It opened fairly close overall with 952,000 viewers for AEW with the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks vs. Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz tag match
> 
> Quarter two for AEW was the ending of the four-way tag plus the Cody interview, which gained 63,000 viewers and was the peak of the AEW show, but lost 7,000 in 18-49
> 
> 
> 1/22 -
> 
> In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 906,000 viewers and 474,000 in 18-49 for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky for the tag titles.
> 
> For the second quarter, AEW gained 22,000 viewers overall and 22,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the Omega & Page vs. Kazarian & Sky match.
> 
> 2/5 -
> 
> AEW opened at 756,000 viewers and 375,000 in 18-49 for the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky match.
> 
> AEW gained 42,000 overall and 21,000 in 18-49 in quarter two, the end of the tag title match and post-match, along with the Jim Ross interview with Santana and Darby Allin video.
> 
> This was the show where AEW had the weak lead in.
> 
> 2/19 -
> Iron Man Match Which has been covered, but it did very well.
> 
> Omega is more consistent than I had realized, just the Lucha Bros match didn't do well(and coming off of a hot angle that was a giant gainer, that is more common), and I couldn't find viewership for the 8-man tag that happened a few weeks ago, but I'd have to imagine that lost viewers as well.
> 
> So he gained in 4/6 of his last major appearances, if in fact that 8 man tag did lose viewers.


FIRE OMEGA!!


----------



## rbl85

In terms of ratings draw, MJF is far, really far from Omega.


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> MJF has been in an angle with Cody, and most of his big gains have involved being in segments with him, or that one segment with Jericho. MJF lost viewers in the match with Jungle boy, lost viewers for his promo on 1/1 as well.
> 
> Dynamite has been on for 5 months, but 2 of those months Omega was booked like a giant geek, he got the shit kicked out of him by The Dark Order. Starting on 1/1 is where I would say Omega began having star-quality booking.


This seems like a classic example of putting your own spin on the facts.

In the above examples of Omega & Page "gaining" viewers, you tried to include segments that included only the tail end of their matches, and even one which had a Cody promo for almost the entirety of the quarter hour.

Yet, when it comes to MJF, you're putting a caveat on why he gained those viewers, and giving credit to Cody.


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> This seems like a classic example of putting your own spin on the facts.
> 
> In the above examples of Omega & Page "gaining" viewers, you tried to include segments that included only the tail end of their matches, and even one which had a Cody promo for almost the entirety of the quarter hour.
> 
> Yet, when it comes to MJF, you're putting a caveat on why he gained those viewers, and giving credit to Cody.


They weren't the tail end of the matches tho, their matches usually go for 22-23 minutes with entrances and celebrations. Q2 gain would be 7-8 minutes of their match and a commercial break because they always run a break in Q2, so you're talking 3-5 minutes for other stuff that quarter.

And yeah, that's kind of how it works when MJF directly is in a segment with Cody that gains viewers, but inexplicably loses viewers when he's involved in segments he's solo. I like MJF and think he's ceiling is ridiculously high, but with your logic, should I give Santana credit for gaining in viewers for his match with Moxley?


----------



## bdon

FatAbomination said:


> They weren't the tail end of the matches tho, their matches usually go for 22-23 minutes with entrances and celebrations. Q2 gain would be 7-8 minutes of their match and a commercial break because they always run a break in Q2, so you're talking 3-5 minutes for other stuff that quarter.
> 
> And yeah, that's kind of how it works when MJF directly is in a segment with Cody that gains viewers, but inexplicably loses viewers when he's involved in segments he's solo. I like MJF and think he's ceiling is ridiculously high, but with your logic, should I give Santana credit for gaining in viewers for his match with Moxley?


Look at the name tag. I don’t know a grown man who will be wearing another man’s name with such conviction.

Hmmm...


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> They weren't the tail end of the matches tho, their matches usually go for 22-23 minutes with entrances and celebrations. Q2 gain would be 7-8 minutes of their match and a commercial break because they always run a break in Q2, so you're talking 3-5 minutes for other stuff that quarter.
> 
> And yeah, that's kind of how it works when MJF directly is in a segment with Cody that gains viewers, but inexplicably loses viewers when he's involved in segments he's solo. I like MJF and think he's ceiling is ridiculously high, but with your logic, should I give Santana credit for gaining in viewers for his match with Moxley?


When has Cody ever had a short promo?

You literally used a Cody segment to try to show a quarter hour increase for a Page/Omega match. Then you turned around and tried to discredit MJF by claiming that it was all Cody.

The original statement was that Cody and MJF have done much better in terms of viewership than Page/Omega have in the last 3 months, and it's true Never did I claim that Cody/MJF segments have a perfect track record of always gaining viewers. They've lost viewers, just as Page/Omega have on numerous occasions. But Cody and MJF have consistently generated bigger increases.

MJF's biggest gainer was over 100K. Granted, it was with Jericho. But Omega's biggest gainer doesn't come close to that, and he's had several quarter hours with Jericho.


----------



## Britz94xD

900K is a pretty good fanbase right now. All the top guys on the roster bring something to the table, so singling out individuals as the sole reason for the success or failure of a show seems silly. It's a collaboration and any one person's absence would be felt.

They could put on the greatest wrestling show in television history and they'd barely get a million viewers. AEW need more legit stars like Edge/Orton/Goldberg/Batista/Punk etc and whomever else that was rumoured to have been in talks with them.


----------



## bdon

patpat said:


> Here I am going to defend mox. Becky lynch wouldnt draw 2 million on dynamite. There is a lot involving the timeslot the value of the brand etc. Its not the same but Moxley and Jericho did very good their job. Cant really attack them on that. Maybe you can say it's not enough for some but it's not bad at all, it's the contrary


I’m not even shitting on Mox. I’m not insecure about his ability to draw, but there seems to be a segment of the board who is deathly protective of Moxley’s place at the top of the card.

Cody-esque WWE demons haunting them, it would seem.

I just used that argument to show how stupid one can sound twisting numbers.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> In terms of ratings draw, MJF is far, really far from Omega.


I have all the quarter ratings saved. That idea that omega is a bad draw is a myth. He is more consistent than people think and that iron man match is more than mjf ever drew on his own on dynamite.
Only two time a Jericho segment has been beaten in aew by someone else. 
Kenny omega in a tag match that opened very strong at one million and the iron man match that literally beat omega and mox.
And that's without being pushed.
Every single mjf segment without cody dropped ratings.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> I’m not even shitting on Mox. I’m not insecure about his ability to draw, but there seems to be a segment of the board who is deathly protective of Moxley’s place at the top of the card.
> 
> Cody-esque WWE demons haunting them, it would seem.
> 
> I just used that argument to show how stupid one can sound twisting numbers.


Oh I get your point amigo, I know you arent a blind hater. Just wanted to point this out.

Also funny that when you look at these numbers omega is far from the so called rating killer people try to paint him as. Maybe having to carry an army of nobodies every week in tag matches with no build didnt do him any favor. But just putting him in a singles match show the results.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I’m not even shitting on Mox. I’m not insecure about his ability to draw, but there seems to be a segment of the board who is deathly protective of Moxley’s place at the top of the card.


If that was true, why are various people campaigning for who they believe would be the best choice to beat him? I've stated it should be MJF ever since the summer. It was clear that Moxley would dethrone Jericho, and MJF seemed like the guy with the highest ceiling. Even more now, after his impressive showing on national TV.

Others think it should be Page.

Others think it should be heel Cody.

You're just upset that not everyone thinks it should be your guy. Try not to be so offended. It's just wrestling, after all.

Also, Moxley's place at the top of this roster is not even the biggest accomplishment of his career. Moxley is a grand slam champion and won the WWE world title (when there was only one world title in WWE.) The WWE title is still, like it or not, the top title in the industry. It's the pinnacle of the sport. Winning, and subsequently losing, the AEW world title will not doing anything for his legacy. Same goes for Jericho. Them winning the AEW world title is solely for the benefit of the company, not for their legacy.


----------



## bdon

Being talked down to by a man who wears another man’s name proudly.


----------



## bdon

Goldberg draws better than the Fiend. Smart choice, Vince!


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Being talked down to by a man who wears another man’s name proudly.


 It's easy to tell when you take things to heart, because you tend to get personal. 

Getting emotional over online arguments isn't good for your health, bud.


----------



## bdon

Not personal at all. Comical, yes. Personal, not at all.

You just show there is more feelings behind that username than I had assumed, which means I don’t need to discuss anything further with you. You’re clearly one of those Mox fans that are still upset about Rollins and Reigns getting the push he didn’t.

Goldberg burying the Fiend was a great choice, Vince! Good job. Ratings went up 17 % immediately!


----------



## Cult03

Illogical said:


> Serious question: if that's the case, what the fuck do you want us to do about it? Want to complain to someone and give them your marvelous ideas; call up Cody, Tony, etc.. They're doing good now. A bunch of people do in fact enjoy the show. You've said your peace. Go away.
> 
> Also some serious backpedaling from things you said even a month ago.


The things us "trolls" have critisized on here have been changed which is entirely why "they're doing good now". Maybe if they keep listening to those fans who aren't sycophants they'll be doing great instead of good.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

rbl85 said:


> In terms of ratings draw, MJF is far, really far from Omega.


We really shouldn't be surprised.

Just wait until MJF feuds with the top dogs like Jericho and Moxley.


----------



## rexmundi

FatAbomination said:


> Some Omega Ratings -
> 
> 1/15 -
> It opened fairly close overall with 952,000 viewers for AEW with the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks vs. Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz tag match
> 
> Quarter two for AEW was the ending of the four-way tag plus the Cody interview, which gained 63,000 viewers and was the peak of the AEW show, but lost 7,000 in 18-49
> 
> 
> 1/22 -
> 
> In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 906,000 viewers and 474,000 in 18-49 for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky for the tag titles.
> 
> For the second quarter, AEW gained 22,000 viewers overall and 22,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the Omega & Page vs. Kazarian & Sky match.
> 
> 2/5 -
> 
> AEW opened at 756,000 viewers and 375,000 in 18-49 for the Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky match.
> 
> AEW gained 42,000 overall and 21,000 in 18-49 in quarter two, the end of the tag title match and post-match, along with the Jim Ross interview with Santana and Darby Allin video.
> 
> This was the show where AEW had the weak lead in.
> 
> 2/19 -
> Iron Man Match Which has been covered, but it did very well.
> 
> Omega is more consistent than I had realized, just the Lucha Bros match didn't do well(and coming off of a hot angle that was a giant gainer, that is more common), and I couldn't find viewership for the 8-man tag that happened a few weeks ago, but I'd have to imagine that lost viewers as well.
> 
> So he gained in 4/6 of his last major appearances, if in fact that 8 man tag did lose viewers.


And forever shall they call him *Kenny O-MEGA DRAW*.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> This seems like a classic example of putting your own spin on the facts.
> 
> In the above examples of Omega & Page "gaining" viewers, you tried to include segments that included only the tail end of their matches, and even one which had a Cody promo for almost the entirety of the quarter hour.
> 
> Yet, when it comes to MJF, you're putting a caveat on why he gained those viewers, and giving credit to Cody.


Let’s go back and check times to be exact, shall we @FatAbomination @AEWMoxley @patpat 

On 1/15, the Omega/Page 4 way tag match was officially over and going to commercial at the nearly 22 minute mark. All that matters is that for 7.5 minutes of a quarter hour, viewership either gained or was lost.

On 1/22, the Omega/page title win doesn’t to commercial break to well past the 25 minute mark. Hmmm...

On 2/5, the segment was right at 17 to18 minutes long going from 44 min and change mark to the 1 hour and 3 min mark. No point in debating whether this is a gain or not.

On 2/19, the Moxley match with Cobb ended at around the 1 hr and 5 minute mark. That means Page/Omega act as the coming down to a big Inner Circle shenanigans beatdown. Not sure whether they lost viewers here or not, just seen it mentioned in the post.

On 2/26, Omega wrestles an Iron Man match that should have been a ratings killer, yet it gained 70k viewers.



Well now, we just went to 4K, because this picture becomes a little more crystal clear...hmmmmm.


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

I hope DoN doesn't get canceled for this Corona virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

StreetProfitsfan said:


> I hope DoN doesn't get canceled for this Corona virus.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same. I’ve tickets for myself and the family.


----------



## K4L318

bdon said:


> Moxley used to draw over 2 million viewers. Why are his segments only doing slightly above shitty ass Kenny Omega?



Moxley as Dean Ambrose was white hot in 2015-16-17.

As his contract ended he made the mistake of staying too long and workin out his contract while he was being buried in value.

So look at it like gettin an MVP player back, like Durant on the Warriors last year. He was at 10%, now when he returned at DON his value went up a bit but not to it's peak. Right now he at 50% which is hard to do wit a new roster, new day and new character. I say by 2021 his value will return to top level. His job right now is bring Omega and Darby and Hangman and that Wardlow guy wit him.

I saw it happen wit Ric too, he went to TNA suddenly my goat who drew record TNT numbers dropped to 2s wit Hogan.


----------



## bdon

K4L318 said:


> Moxley as Dean Ambrose was white hot in 2015-16-17.
> 
> As his contract ended he made the mistake of staying too long and workin out his contract while he was being buried in value.
> 
> So look at it like gettin an MVP player back, like Durant on the Warriors last year. He was at 10%, now when he returned at DON his value went up a bit but not to it's peak. Right now he at 50% which is hard to do wit a new roster, new day and new character. I say by 2021 his value will return to top level. His job right now is bring Omega and Darby and Hangman and that Wardlow guy wit him.
> 
> I saw it happen wit Ric too, he went to TNA suddenly my goat who drew record TNT numbers dropped to 2s wit Hogan.


I was just being an ass.


----------



## patpat

K4L318 said:


> Moxley as Dean Ambrose was white hot in 2015-16-17.
> 
> As his contract ended he made the mistake of staying too long and workin out his contract while he was being buried in value.
> 
> So look at it like gettin an MVP player back, like Durant on the Warriors last year. He was at 10%, now when he returned at DON his value went up a bit but not to it's peak. Right now he at 50% which is hard to do wit a new roster, new day and new character. I say by 2021 his value will return to top level. His job right now is bring Omega and Darby and Hangman and that Wardlow guy wit him.
> 
> I saw it happen wit Ric too, he went to TNA suddenly my goat who drew record TNT numbers dropped to 2s wit Hogan.


Well he is going to have one hell of a job to do, because with how aew booked him as champ do far you could as well imagine that the belt is on Jericho and it would change absolutely nothing to the events 
This is why you dont book your top champ as an underdog.


----------



## FatAbomination

So I posted the Omega ratings, and couldn't find how the 8-man tag match from a few weeks ago did, so I just assumed it was a loss. Turns out it was actually a gain, found it in the observer.

*In the fourth quarter, AEW had the end of Baker vs. Sakazaki and the post-match beatdown, as well as the beginning of the Pentagon Jr. & Fenix & Butcher & Blade vs. Young Bucks & Kenny Omega & Adam Page, which gained 25,000 viewers and 18,000 in 18-49

In the fifth quarter, AEW had the bulk of the eight-man tag match and the Omega post-match interview and angle with Pac plus the beginning of Joey Janela vs. Kip Sabian. It gained 17,000 viewers and lost 11,000 in 18-49.*

So a double gain for that match that ran through 2 quarters, so Omega has gained in 5/6 of his last major segments, and the one he lost was coming off of a hot Moxley angle that gained nearly 200k viewers.


----------



## bdon

FatAbomination said:


> So I posted the Omega ratings, and couldn't find how the 8-man tag match from a few weeks ago did, so I just assumed it was a loss. Turns out it was actually a gain, found it in the observer.
> 
> *In the fourth quarter, AEW had the end of Baker vs. Sakazaki and the post-match beatdown, as well as the beginning of the Pentagon Jr. & Fenix & Butcher & Blade vs. Young Bucks & Kenny Omega & Adam Page, which gained 25,000 viewers and 18,000 in 18-49
> 
> In the fifth quarter, AEW had the bulk of the eight-man tag match and the Omega post-match interview and angle with Pac plus the beginning of Joey Janela vs. Kip Sabian. It gained 17,000 viewers and lost 11,000 in 18-49.*
> 
> So a double gain for that match that ran through 2 quarters, so Omega has gained in 5/6 of his last major segments, and the one he lost was coming off of a hot Moxley angle that gained nearly 200k viewers.


You know this isn’t going to mean shit when they see and respond.


----------



## Ozell Gray

https://youtu.be/RnagNso4iGQ

AEW got better but STILL SUCKS!

AEW Sucks 2/19/20

AEW Dynamite is Filled with Jobbers

Worst Segment In Wrestling History

AEW Hype Is Over!

14 Reasons Why Cody Rhodes Suck

https://youtu.be/yE-ieHc6MO8

12:29-12:53 AEW & NXT Are Both Losers In The Wednesday Wrestling Wars!

AEW Dynamite Episode 12 Review This Show Is Awful

Jim Cornette on Why Vince McMahon Will Defeat AEW

A&W (AEW) Wrestling Will Never Get It

https://youtu.be/ZDqW3JVm1eU

https://mobile.twitter.com/travion23/status/1236057640893132802

https://mobile.twitter.com/DonRightGaming1/status/1236255843244441600

https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin03733677/status/1235325810871013377


Report Ad
Featured below is a transcript of what Eric Bischoff said about the subject during the recent podcast:


> _“That’s an interesting thing for Mr. Khan to say. He’s been in the professional wrestling business for what time is it? It’s about a cup of coffee, I think. I think your coffee could still be warm at this point. And so far he’s spent... from what I’ve heard, I don’t know if it’s accurate or not, I want to make sure I say that... somewhere between $30 million and $50 million to prove that he could be competitive with WWE’s developmental territory.
> 
> "Call me in a couple years and tell me what you’ve done that’s really unique. Call me in a couple years and let me know how you’ve changed the industry. Call me in a couple years when your show is one of the top — if not the top — original piece of programming on the TNT network. Call me in a couple years when you’re #2, #3, #4 in all of cable programming for the night in prime-time...and then let’s talk about it. But until then...mm, I’ll just get another cup of coffee and see what happens.” Eric Bischoff Fires Back At Tony Khan, Claims He's Spent $30-50 Million "To Prove AEW Can Compete With NXT" | EWrestling _





https://mobile.twitter.com/Colohue/status/1145362890523889669


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Let’s go back and check times to be exact, shall we @FatAbomination @AEWMoxley @patpat
> 
> On 1/15, the Omega/Page 4 way tag match was officially over and going to commercial at the nearly 22 minute mark. All that matters is that for 7.5 minutes of a quarter hour, viewership either gained or was lost.
> 
> On 1/22, the Omega/page title win doesn’t to commercial break to well past the 25 minute mark. Hmmm...
> 
> On 2/5, the segment was right at 17 to18 minutes long going from 44 min and change mark to the 1 hour and 3 min mark. No point in debating whether this is a gain or not.
> 
> On 2/19, the Moxley match with Cobb ended at around the 1 hr and 5 minute mark. That means Page/Omega act as the coming down to a big Inner Circle shenanigans beatdown. Not sure whether they lost viewers here or not, just seen it mentioned in the post.
> 
> On 2/26, Omega wrestles an Iron Man match that should have been a ratings killer, yet it gained 70k viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, we just went to 4K, because this picture becomes a little more crystal clear...hmmmmm.


This was already addressed.

The conversation you're replying to was a comparison between the Cody/MJF angle and the Omega/Page angle over the last 3 months or so. These numbers do nothing to show that Omega/Page drew better than Cody/MJF.

First, the 1/15 gain in Q2 happened in the same quarter hour as the Cody promo, and unsurprisingly, this was their biggest gain. The other poster tried to use Cody's presence to diminish MJF, so you guys are going to have to make up your mind. If you use Cody to diminish MJF's contributions, you can't attribute the gain in this particular quarter to Omega/Page.

Also, I'm not sure why you brought up the 2/19 segment. Omega/Page lost 75K viewers.

I will give you all of the others, but that doesn't help you, because those gains can't touch what Cody/MJF have done. Also, Cody/MJF segments over that period never came close to losing 75K viewers.

So yes, the picture is indeed very clear. Among the second tier booked guys (Cody, MJF, Omega, Page) Cody and MJF have been at the top, and Omega/Page are at the bottom.


----------



## rbl85

Cody is at the top, MJF is far from it.

Every segment where MJF wasn't with Cody or a big name lost viewers.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Cody is at the top, MJF is far from it.
> 
> Every segment where MJF wasn't with Cody or a big name lost viewers.


Cody started consistently doing good numbers in this feud with MJF, though. He lost viewers on several occasions when he was on his own during the Jericho feud, including that one promo that everyone was raving about.

Cody has done some of his best numbers in segments with MJF. Even Jericho had one of his better rated segments, at the time, during that promo with MJF.

This was MJF's first feud on national TV. Losing some viewers here and there is not unexpected, but he certainly never lost 75K+ viewers. I know that much.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW Revolution Sucked, Hickory Dickory Dock
> 
> AEW got better but STILL SUCKS!
> 
> AEW Sucks 2/19/20
> 
> AEW Dynamite is Filled with Jobbers
> 
> Worst Segment In Wrestling History
> 
> AEW Hype Is Over!
> 
> 14 Reasons Why Cody Rhodes Suck
> 
> Vince Russo Makes Final Offer To Cody Rhodes And Tony Khan To Help AEW |DramaAlertWrestlingNews #2
> 
> 12:29-12:53 AEW & NXT Are Both Losers In The Wednesday Wrestling Wars!
> 
> AEW Dynamite Episode 12 Review This Show Is Awful
> 
> Jim Cornette on Why Vince McMahon Will Defeat AEW
> 
> A&W (AEW) Wrestling Will Never Get It
> 
> Professional Wrestling Is Dying, Thanks To Mid Card Main Events.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/travion23/status/1236057640893132802
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/DonRightGaming1/status/1236255843244441600
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin03733677/status/1235325810871013377
> 
> 
> Report Ad
> Featured below is a transcript of what Eric Bischoff said about the subject during the recent podcast:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/Colohue/status/1145362890523889669


That was embarrassing to listen to. I am surprised the guy can figure out the steps needed to actually publish his video he sounds so dumb. He actually praised John Cena in one of the videos lmao.


----------



## FatAbomination

AEWMoxley said:


> Cody started consistently doing good numbers in this feud with MJF, though. He lost viewers on several occasions when he was on his own during the Jericho feud, including that one promo that everyone was raving about.
> 
> Cody has done some of his best numbers in segments with MJF. Even Jericho had one of his better rated segments, at the time, during that promo with MJF.
> 
> This was MJF's first feud on national TV. Losing some viewers here and there is not unexpected, but he certainly never lost 75K+ viewers. I know that much.


Omega only had that one quarter where he was in with Cody, not even in the same segment, but the same quarter.

We've seen MJF with Cody on numerous occasions, and yes, those segments do really well, however, I don't recall a time where MJF actually gained viewers without the presence of Cody.

He lost viewers for his promo on 1/1, he didn't gain any viewers for his promo on 1/8 with DDP(they stayed even), he lost viewers on 1/15 in the 6-man that was also DDP's return match, 1/22 he gained viewers for his match with Janela but that quarter also included Cody and the Bucks coming out for a promo and dumping him in the pool(match actually spanned two quarters, first had the ending of a Jericho match and 2nd had Cody involved, both did gain), 2/12, MJF lost viewers with Jungle Boy.

So literally in EVERY single quarter that MJF had that didn't involve Cody, he lost viewers.

To go back even further, he lost viewers with Hangman Page on 11/26, and lost 111k with Brandon Cutler on 10/2(that was his debut, not really a big deal, just pointing it out).


----------



## CMPunkRock316

MJF is awesome. Everyone I know that watches wrestling that has watched AEW loves or loves to hate MJF.


----------



## FatAbomination

Of course MJF is awesome, no one is doubting that. We're looking at objective metrics that can't be argued.

And I think MJF is going to be a monster draw, this notion he's this major TV draw right now is unfounded.


----------



## Britz94xD

So what if someone loses/gains 100K viewers? It's trifle.

There's only a shortlist of guys who would actually draw considerably more than they are doing right now. Punk/Bryan/Batista/Edge. etc


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Britz94xD said:


> So what if someone loses/gains 100K viewers? It's trifle.
> 
> There's only a shortlist of guys who would actually draw considerably more than they are doing right now. Punk/Bryan/Batista/Edge. etc


Ironically all of their runs, except Batistas, led to ratings going down for WWF. Just something to chew on.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> This was already addressed.
> 
> The conversation you're replying to was a comparison between the Cody/MJF angle and the Omega/Page angle over the last 3 months or so. These numbers do nothing to show that Omega/Page drew better than Cody/MJF.
> 
> First, the 1/15 gain in Q2 happened in the same quarter hour as the Cody promo, and unsurprisingly, this was their biggest gain. The other poster tried to use Cody's presence to diminish MJF, so you guys are going to have to make up your mind. If you use Cody to diminish MJF's contributions, you can't attribute the gain in this particular quarter to Omega/Page.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure why you brought up the 2/19 segment. Omega/Page lost 75K viewers.
> 
> I will give you all of the others, but that doesn't help you, because those gains can't touch what Cody/MJF have done. Also, Cody/MJF segments over that period never came close to losing 75K viewers.
> 
> So yes, the picture is indeed very clear. Among the second tier booked guys (Cody, MJF, Omega, Page) Cody and MJF have been at the top, and Omega/Page are at the bottom.


On 1/15, the Bucks and Omega do not leave the screen until the 23 and a half minute mark. Cody is on the screen for 6 minutes and 5 seconds of the quarter. I just pulled up the replay yesterday to check exact times.

On 2/19, they lost viewers after a wrestler’s debut against #1 contender Jon Moxley who is likely to get a beatdown. Omega and Page can’t maintain a massive jump in viewers that has Moxley, Jericho, Inner Circle, and a debuting wrestler’s first match?Color me shocked.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> On 1/15, the Bucks and Omega do not leave the screen until the 23 and a half minute mark. Cody is on the screen for 6 minutes and 5 seconds of the quarter. I just pulled up the replay yesterday to check exact times.
> 
> On 2/19, they lost viewers after a wrestler’s debut against #1 contender Jon Moxley who is likely to get a beatdown. Omega and Page can’t maintain a massive jump in viewers that has Moxley, Jericho, Inner Circle, and a debuting wrestler’s first match?Color me shocked.


What is happening is that you guys provided all the datas and everyone realised that the notion of omega being this huge anti draw is fake and was just a low level narrative created by some. So those people wont accept that omega ( even without the push of the aew machine) still does great. Add his great merch sales and toy sales and you can clearly see the potential.
They need to keep him off tv for 2 weeks and give him a big angle when he comes back with a certain hype and build. They wont even have to do much to make omega a big draw


----------



## AEWMoxley

FatAbomination said:


> Omega only had that one quarter where he was in with Cody, not even in the same segment, but the same quarter.
> 
> We've seen MJF with Cody on numerous occasions, and yes, those segments do really well, however, I don't recall a time where MJF actually gained viewers without the presence of Cody.
> 
> He lost viewers for his promo on 1/1, he didn't gain any viewers for his promo on 1/8 with DDP(they stayed even), he lost viewers on 1/15 in the 6-man that was also DDP's return match, 1/22 he gained viewers for his match with Janela but that quarter also included Cody and the Bucks coming out for a promo and dumping him in the pool(match actually spanned two quarters, first had the ending of a Jericho match and 2nd had Cody involved, both did gain), 2/12, MJF lost viewers with Jungle Boy.
> 
> So literally in EVERY single quarter that MJF had that didn't involve Cody, he lost viewers.
> 
> To go back even further, he lost viewers with Hangman Page on 11/26, and lost 111k with Brandon Cutler on 10/2(that was his debut, not really a big deal, just pointing it out).


By this logic, Cody wasn't a draw during his feud with Jericho, because his segments that didn't involve Jericho lost viewers. Or, you can acknowledge that Jericho was the bigger draw of the two, but that Cody contributed as well. Similarly, Cody was the bigger draw in this feud, but to deny that MJF had played a role in these numbers seems disingenuous.

I see you went all the way to the debut to find a big loss for MJF. If you want to go that far back, I can bring up Omega vs Janela losing 131K viewers, or Page vs Omega losing a ton of viewers too.

When we are dealing with this second tier, you cant expect perfection. They aren't going to have a perfect record of gaining viewers. But one of these feuds clearly drew better numbers than the other. MJF is already a star after his first feud, and is only going to get bigger from here.


----------



## bdon

Ignore the 5 out of 6 gains since they began presenting him as a star in the ring and not loser, @AEWMoxley .

Ignore and deflect. What does ignoring and deflecting usually point to again..?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Ignore the 5 out of 6 gains since they began presenting him as a star in the ring and not loser, @AEWMoxley .


You tried to attribute a loss as a gain.

Another one of those quarters was one in which team Page/Omega and Cody each had basically half of the quarter. If you want to use Cody to diminish MJF, then you can't simultaneously attribute a gain to Omega/Page when Cody appeared in half of the quarter.

Also, what's with the cherry picking? Omega has never been portrayed as a loser. That's another thing that you literally just made up out of thin air. I don't think he has ever lost on Dynamite. The only match he lost since the Dynamite debut was to Moxley at Full Gear. Of course he was going to lose that match. Even Jericho lost to Moxley. Next thing you're going to tell me is that Jericho is a loser.

Cody/MJF feud has objectively gained many more viewers in their segments than Page/Omega.



> Ignore and deflect. What does ignoring and deflecting usually point to again..?


Only one of us is pretending that quarters which lost viewers were gainers, and it's not me.


----------



## bdon

I brought up 2/19, because it was in the post. Once you said it lost viewers, I explained why.

You trying to attribute Cody as a gain in a segment that he had 6 mins of air time to Omega and Page at 7 and a half minutes is disingenuous. I don’t keep track of ratings, 2/19 was in the post, so I assumed it was part of the gains. My apologies.

Now stop trying to give Cody credit for the segment that he only had 6 minutes and 5 seconds in the fucking quarter. If you want to wax intelligently, then we can do that.

If not, I’ll stop responding to you and ask that you do the same with me.


----------



## bdon

And if you don’t think Omega was presented as a loser, then I don’t know what to tell you. He was carrying DARK, getting his ass handed to him by Moxley, in a beatdown from the from Dark Order, etc.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I brought up 2/19, because it was in the post. Once you said it lost viewers, I explained why.
> 
> You trying to attribute Cody as a gain in a segment that he had 6 mins of air time to Omega and Page at 7 and a half minutes is disingenuous. I don’t keep track of ratings, 2/19 was in the post, so I assumed it was part of the gains. My apologies.
> 
> Now stop trying to give Cody credit for the segment that he only had 6 minutes and 5 seconds in the fucking quarter. If you want to wax intelligently, then we can do that.
> 
> If not, I’ll stop responding to you and ask that you do the same with me.


I'll stop attributing that gain to Cody, in which he appeared for nearly half the quarter, if you guys stop _only_ crediting Cody for all of the Cody and MJF segments. I'm fine with that.

So what we are left with is the fact that Cody/MJF segments have, on average, gained many more viewers than Page/Omega segments.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> And if you don’t think Omega was presented as a loser, then I don’t know what to tell you. He was carrying DARK


He didn't lose a single match on Dynamite. How is that a loser? He also got to headline Full gear in the most high profile feud at the time.



> getting his ass handed to him by Moxley, in a beatdown from the from Dark Order, etc.


AEW likes to have their babyfaces get beat down by large groups. Cody and Moxley have been beat down by the Inner Circle.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> I'll stop attributing that gain to Cody, in which he appeared for nearly half the quarter, if you guys stop crediting Cody for all of the Cody and MJF segments. I'm fine with that.
> 
> So what we are left with is the fact that Cody/MJF segments have, on average, gained many more viewers than Page/Omega segments.


I’m fine with admitting Cody and MJF segments have probably averaged more. I have enjoyed their segments more, even if I don’t like Cody’s HHH impersonations. Cody has been presented as the most important babyface of the show, and we all know why that is. MJF is GOLD on a microphone. 

Omega was on DARK multiple weeks. When on Dynamite, they had him taking run-in beat downs from Moxley, nothing character-driven, etc.

Page, likewise, was “just a guy” until he began drinking that beer. He hasn’t started really heating up until 2020.

My point is that how you present guys are, and mostly have always been, very telling of whether the fans will be invested enough to stay and watch. It isn’t about CAN a guy draw, because most anyone CAN depending on the story you’re telling and how you present it.

Match, match, match is usually not going to draw. We all know and agree on this. And no, backstage interviews are not the same as in-ring promos: in-ring brings a sense of “what is about to happen”.


----------



## bdon

Oh, and for those so curious, XFL continues to fall in ratings as predicted.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Looks like Revolution beat Full Gear, and once all the data comes in, it looks like it will probably beat All Out, too.



> The AEW _Revolution_ pay-per-view will end up drawing more pay-per-view buys than the _Full Gear_ event, according to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.
> 
> Cable pay-per-view numbers aren't in yet, but for iPPV buys through B/R Live, _Revolution_ was up more than 10% from Full Gear, and at the same level as _Double Or Nothing_ 2019, which would be in the range of 37,000 - a strong number for iPPV buys.
> 
> The _Revolution_ buys for FITE.TV were the highest for any AEW show to date, which would mean among the highest for any event in the history of FITE. This was somewhat expected as FITE was the only way for the UK market to access the show legally. The UK numbers also aren't available yet, but the total number of UK buyers will be down and that wasn't unavoidable because of the closing of ITV Box Office and AEW being unable to land a new TV pay-per-view provider there.
> 
> ​The Observer adds that based on data available, the indication is that _Revolution_ would have been second behind Double Or Nothing, of the four AEW pay-per-view events, but that's not official yet. This is based on B/R Live and FITE numbers because the cable numbers aren't in yet, and the Germany TV numbers aren't too big, but were a new addition for this event.
> 
> It was noted that it's not a lock that _Revolution_ will be the #2 AEW pay-per-view out of the four, but it will beat Full Gear.
> 
> It was previously reported that _Full Gear_ drew an estimated 100,000 pay-per-view buys or slightly below. _Double Or Nothing_ 2019 drew an estimated 110,000 buys between cable and digital, and All Out was below that with around 100,000 buys. All In, which took place before the launch of AEW, drew an estimated 50-55,000 buys in September 2018.


News On AEW Revolution PPV Buys, Recent Attendance Figures - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## K4L318

patpat said:


> Well he is going to have one hell of a job to do, because with how aew booked him as champ do far you could as well imagine that the belt is on Jericho and it would change absolutely nothing to the events
> This is why you dont book your top champ as an underdog.


bro Mox is undefeated, he was booked well. 
The champ was Jericho, he a goat but it had to move to Mox cuz he got da hype now. 18-49 started to believe in him dat why he champ.

his buzz start from now into summer.


----------



## patpat

K4L318 said:


> bro Mox is undefeated, he was booked well.
> The champ was Jericho, he a goat but it had to move to Mox cuz he got da hype now. 18-49 started to believe in him dat why he champ.
> 
> his buzz start from now into summer.


Well I guess we will see 
My issue isnt the win loss record, this shit is secondary. The booking in itself is off. They are booking their world champion as an underdog and still present Jericho as some final villain. Its reducing the impact of the title change.
I think this booking is shit and if they continue it's going to beat them in the ass, the future will tell us who was right.


----------



## bdon

They made it as if, even after beating his ass and winning the title, Moxley still can’t wait to get HIS hands on Jericho. Yes, Jericho is now the seeming chaser, but Moxley either by how he sold the angle or how he was told to present it, come across still as the challenger.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Are you guys really surprised that Jericho is still involved in the main angle? He's been great and is one of their top two draws. Of course he's going to be involved. Who else is more worthy? 

I like the idea of adding MJF to this feud and having a triple threat at DON. Get MJF a ton of exposure without having to eat the pin. This will prepare him for a title win in November or next February.


----------



## bdon

It isn’t that Jericho is in the feud, but it is all in how they presented it. Moxley came off like the challenger, and Jericho the champion. Not even about how I feel, but Moxley playing the underdog fighting to get a shot at Jericho is silly.

A better way to get back to Moxley and Jericho would be Moxley saying that Jericho can earn his title shot just like he did, fighting and clawing his way up the ranks. It would show Moxley in a champion’s light, and it would give Moxley and Jericho time to work with others to bump ratings across multiple segments, putting others in a position to get eyes on them and placing others in angles of importance, drawing the fans in and forcing them to be invested more. 

Instead we just got Moxley still acting like he has something to prove, as if winning the belt wasn’t enough.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> It isn’t that Jericho is in the feud, but it is all in how they presented it. Moxley came off like the challenger, and Jericho the champion. Not even about how I feel, but Moxley playing the underdog fighting to get a shot at Jericho is silly.
> 
> A better way to get back to Moxley and Jericho would be Moxley saying that Jericho can earn his title shot just like he did, fighting and clawing his way up the ranks. It would show Moxley in a champion’s light, and it would give Moxley and Jericho time to work with others to bump ratings across multiple segments, putting others in a position to get eyes on them and placing others in angles of importance, drawing the fans in and forcing them to be invested more.
> 
> Instead we just got Moxley still acting like he has something to prove, as if winning the belt wasn’t enough.


So your solution would be to bury the IC by making them a midcard act? They needed to look strong after they suffered their biggest loss, otherwise they'd lose credibility. Especially since Jericho might end up eating another pin at DON.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> So your solution would be to bury the IC by making them a midcard act? They needed to look strong after they suffered their biggest loss, otherwise they'd lose credibility. Especially since Jericho might end up eating another pin at DON.


B-b-b-but I thought being presented as a midcard act wouldn’t affect one’s ability to draw..? Ain’t that right, @LifeInCattleClass @FatAbomination @Pat 

Hook, line, sinker. Thanks bub.

For the record, no. It isn’t presenting them as a midcard act. It is treating them according to the story. They lost. Jericho lost. There is a way to tell a story without making MOXLEY look like an idiot still chasing JERICHO.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> B-b-b-but I thought being presented as a midcard act wouldn’t affect one’s ability to draw..? Ain’t that right, @LifeInCattleClass @FatAbomination @Pat
> 
> Hook, line, sinker. Thanks bub.
> 
> For the record, no. It isn’t presenting them as a midcard act. It is treating them according to the story. They lost. Jericho lost. There is a way to tell a story without making MOXLEY look like an idiot still chasing JERICHO.


I never said anything about drawing power. Jericho would still draw in the midcard, but you'd be taking heat out of this feud.

Jericho is rightly angry that he lost his title and is now chasing after it again. If you expected him to move on after losing it, you were clearly mistaken. It wouldn't have made sense for them to drop the angle immediately.


----------



## bdon

It would be one thing if Jericho was being portrayed as the chaser. Moxley came across as the one still chasing Jericho.

You really don’t understand stories, baby language, etc, do you?


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> B-b-b-but I thought being presented as a midcard act wouldn’t affect one’s ability to draw..? Ain’t that right, @LifeInCattleClass @FatAbomination @Pat
> 
> Hook, line, sinker. Thanks bub.
> 
> For the record, no. It isn’t presenting them as a midcard act. It is treating them according to the story. They lost. Jericho lost. There is a way to tell a story without making MOXLEY look like an idiot still chasing JERICHO.


Oh you mean a midcard presentation limit one's ability to draw? _shocked pikachu face_ 
Also thinking about it maybe they kept mox out with that Jericho powerbomb to write him off the show a bit since he has a non aew show coming.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> It would be one thing if Jericho was being portrayed as the chaser. Moxley came across as the one still chasing Jericho.
> 
> You really don’t understand stories, baby language, etc, do you?


I don't know what you're watching or interpreting, but that's something you're going to have to work through on your own.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Yet Another WWE Star Is Being Linked To A Move To AEW


AEW star Chris Jericho has hinted that another underused WWE star could soon join the company.




www.forbes.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Yet Another WWE Star Is Being Linked To A Move To AEW
> 
> 
> AEW star Chris Jericho has hinted that another underused WWE star could soon join the company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


how old is that insta post lol, and forbes are only picking up on it now


----------



## FatAbomination

AEW started at 912k last week, 2nd hour was very strong, PAC/Taylor was big, by the end the tag match did 992k. Hager/QT had a small gain overall, but gained big in 18-49.

That's great for AEW, the fact they gained going into the 2nd hour is pretty surprising. NXT had a record gain for the cage match after the conclusion of AEW.

AEW is also bucking the trend of being the only company that doesn't collapse as the show goes on, Smackdown even loses a significant amount in hour 2 most weeks, and NXT usually loses viewers throughout the duration of 2 hours. More often than not, especially recently, AEW is either even to the opening, just slightly down or even way up like it was this week.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Ozell Gray said:


> Yet Another WWE Star Is Being Linked To A Move To AEW
> 
> 
> AEW star Chris Jericho has hinted that another underused WWE star could soon join the company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


He is hurt. No one is doing anything with him for awhile


----------



## rbl85

FatAbomination said:


> AEW started at 912k last week, 2nd hour was very strong, PAC/Taylor was big, by the end the tag match did 992k. Hager/QT had a small gain overall, but gained big in 18-49.
> 
> That's great for AEW, the fact they gained going into the 2nd hour is pretty surprising. NXT had a record gain for the cage match after the conclusion of AEW.
> 
> AEW is also bucking the trend of being the only company that doesn't collapse as the show goes on, Smackdown even loses a significant amount in hour 2 most weeks, and NXT usually loses viewers throughout the duration of 2 hours. More often than not, especially recently, AEW is either even to the opening, just slightly down or even way up like it was this week.


What you are telling me that Mox opening didn't make 1M ?

AEWMOX remember what i said ?


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> What you are telling me that Mox opening didn't make 1M ?
> 
> AEWMOX remember what i said ?


Oh boy.....


----------



## bdon

Glad to see the fans rewarding Pac for an awesome match the previous week.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> What you are telling me that Mox opening didn't make 1M ?
> 
> AEWMOX remember what i said ?


Interesting, but from what I understand, they went up against a cage match. Those always draw.

Even more interesting is that Pac did a good number in another singles match. Looks like he was the draw in that iron man match from the 2/26 show.

I may have to reconsider my position on Pac if he keeps this up.


----------



## bdon

Oh goddamn, the insecurities.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> Glad to see the fans rewarding Pac for an awesome match the previous week.


YES this is what I thought. This is fucking incredible, that match i knew would make pac at least a bit of a draw. They drew in almost a million people that came in and saw them being portrayed as stars. Yes omega won in an almost cena-esque fashion. But pac didnt look half bad either. And if he continues to draw then the ability of omega to elevate people even when he beats them will be proven. 
This is what top guys do


----------



## bdon

patpat said:


> YES this is what I thought. This is fucking incredible, that match i knew would make pac at least a bit of a draw. They drew in almost a million people that came in and saw them being portrayed as stars. Yes omega won in an almost cena-esque fashion. But pac didnt look half bad either. And if he continues to draw then the ability of omega to elevate people even when he beats them will be proven.
> This is what top guys do


I personally don’t care if it is Jericho, Omega, Moxley, guys getting over on their own: just want everyone to get a rating worthy of the product they have been putting together for 2 months.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> I personally don’t care if it is Jericho, Omega, Moxley, guys getting over on their own: just want everyone to get a rating worthy of the product they have been putting together for 2 months.


Absolutely. But a guy like pac that they use a lot, if he starts gaining viewers it is very good. Becaus that means they can rely on much more people, this will make it easier for them to implement variety in the show. The idea of multiple top guys who can all draw and be an attraction is very good. Because they can all elevate others too. 
Hopefully soon they can have not Jericho moxley omega cody but also pac or a guy like orange cassidy as draws.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I personally don’t care if it is Jericho, Omega, Moxley, guys getting over on their own: just want everyone to get a rating worthy of the product they have been putting together for 2 months.


I'm not sure what you took issue with, but we are basically in agreement. If even I, a staunch Pac hater, can give credit and acknowledge that he has shown the ability to generate interest in his matches, then that bodes well. He did a good number against a complete and total jobber who has a dad bod this week. Literally the only other guy on the roster who has drawn against legit jobbers is Moxley. So yes, I am impressed.

However, he needs to continue to show consistency.


----------



## bdon

Anyone have a complete breakdown of the quarter by quarter ratings?


----------



## FatAbomination

^It'll be out in the observer this week, I imagine it went something like 922k opening for AEW, fell for SCU/DO and Librarian/Swole, picked up for Cody promo, big gain for PAC/Taylor, and gained throughout the rest of the show.

Again, the good sign here is that AEW is bucking the trend of every other wrestling show where they fall and fall as the show goes on, RAW is the most notorious for it, but it's 3 hours so it's expected. NXT falls hard throughout the duration, and Smackdown falls hour over hour as well.


----------



## bdon

Must be due to 10% margin of errors.


----------



## AEWMoxley

I must have glazed over the numbers for the main event angle. 992K is massive. That must be one of the biggest final quarters they've had.


----------



## The Wood

There are so many people defending the drawing potential of Kenny Omega, claiming that the booking of him has been bad. He’s the fucking booker, haha. His vision of himself is the vision that is losing thousands of viewers most weeks.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> There are so many people defending the drawing potential of Kenny Omega, claiming that the booking of him has been bad. He’s the fucking booker, haha. His vision of himself is the vision that is losing thousands of viewers most weeks.


Well, in fairness, most weeks the 10% margin of error probably means he actually DREW thousands of viewers.

That’s how this works, right?


----------



## bdon

This is fun, @The Wood .


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Well, in fairness, most weeks the 10% margin of error probably means he actually DREW thousands of viewers.
> 
> That’s how this works, right?


Nielsen themselves claim this margin of error.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Nielsen themselves claim this margin of error.


I know, man. I just love giving you shit about it, because for a while there in such a small sample size, I was with you on it being possible. 20+ weeks in, it’s simple: AEW is a better product for TV, even if NXT probably has more consistently good matches.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I know, man. I just love giving you shit about it, because for a while there in such a small sample size, I was with you on it being possible. 20+ weeks in, it’s simple: AEW is a better product for TV, even if NXT probably has more consistently good matches.


There are a certain number of hardcore fans that are going to prioritize AEW. I still think that NXT has got a much better chance of making new fans and they have that main roster pool. AEW is not going to make new wrestling fans.

When WWE ramps up NXT, which is going to happen, then NXT fans will be able to say exactly the same thing.

The biggest issue NXT faces, other than not being able to get those 900k hardcores, is simple product fatigue. There are only so many hours in the week, and NXT is hours 6 and 7 of WWE television. For hardcore fans, it’s really hours and 9 when you factor in AEW.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> There are a certain number of hardcore fans that are going to prioritize AEW. I still think that NXT has got a much better chance of making new fans and they have that main roster pool. AEW is not going to make new wrestling fans.
> 
> When WWE ramps up NXT, which is going to happen, then NXT fans will be able to say exactly the same thing.
> 
> The biggest issue NXT faces, other than not being able to get those 900k hardcores, is simple product fatigue. There are only so many hours in the week, and NXT is hours 6 and 7 of WWE television. For hardcore fans, it’s really hours and 9 when you factor in AEW.


I think that is part of it, and that’s sad when you consider how bad RAW and SmackDown are most weeks. You’ve got 4 very good to great hours of shit to watch on Wednesday nights.

I don’t watch WWE or NXT (more of a time issue with work schedule as far as NXT goes), but I know enough via friends who do.

Just hoping both Wednesday night products continue to grow.


----------



## Irish Jet

Decided to give AEW a chance and watched a few episodes of the last few weeks. Generally a really impressive show with guys who clearly know how to work a story, the main things that stand out:

Jericho is as good if not better than ever character wise. He may not have the look or in ring performance any more but my days he’s on another level when it comes to the psychology of a heel. 

Moxley is as terrible as always. Overly dramatic, no subtlety, the same garbage that was obvious in WWE from the start – He as all the nuance of a Tourette’s patient. A guy who clearly thinks he has more charisma than he actually has but has done a solid job building a reputation on that delusion. He’s unwatchable and unbelievable as a performer. Always was. Trash. Will be the reason I'm not going to stick with it if he keeps the belt. 

Cody is a different person to any WWE iteration. Shows you how dreadful the WWE are given they actually tried with him several times but never once got anything resembling this. Amazing what happens when you let a guy work and let a push play out. 

They’re the guys I knew from before along with Goldust. Hugely impressed with MJF, Page and Omega, although the latter may be based on reputation. 

Their women’s division is a waste of time and should have been scrapped until they had the talent to make it work. 

JR sounds like he could keel over at any minute. Probably a good idea to have him but the man couldn’t give less of a shit on commentary.


----------



## The Wood

There are lots of issues with both shows. Most weeks I've done a comparison, I've enjoyed SmackDown more than Dynamite, for example. NXT is probably the best product out there, but it's missing that final spark to really set things off for them.


----------



## The Wood

Irish Jet said:


> Decided to give AEW a chance and watched a few episodes of the last few weeks. Generally a really impressive show with guys who clearly know how to work a story, the main things that stand out:
> 
> Jericho is as good if not better than ever character wise. He may not have the look or in ring performance any more but my days he’s on another level when it comes to the psychology of a heel.
> 
> Moxley is as terrible as always. Overly dramatic, no subtlety, the same garbage that was obvious in WWE from the start – He as all the nuance of a Tourette’s patient. A guy who clearly thinks he has more charisma than he actually has but has done a solid job building a reputation on that delusion. He’s unwatchable and unbelievable as a performer. Always was. Trash. Will be the reason I'm not going to stick with it if he keeps the belt.
> 
> Cody is a different person to any WWE iteration. Shows you how dreadful the WWE are given they actually tried with him several times but never once got anything resembling this. Amazing what happens when you let a guy work and let a push play out.
> 
> They’re the guys I knew from before along with Goldust. Hugely impressed with MJF, Page and Omega, although the latter may be based on reputation.
> 
> Their women’s division is a waste of time and should have been scrapped until they had the talent to make it work.
> 
> JR sounds like he could keel over at any minute. Probably a good idea to have him but the man couldn’t give less of a shit on commentary.


Haha, harsh take on Moxley. You know what though? I was thinking something similar earlier. I don't think he's trash, but there's this thing where wrestling really wants him to be this top level guy, but it's so forced. He doesn't have it all together. I really went sour on him in the WWE around 2016. The Brock match, him showing up places drunk, "I'm Vince McMahon's favorite wrestler" and the Steve Austin podcast. It all came together to really expose him.

If he were around in the Attitude era, he would have been comfortable in ECW where everyone would think he's the best thing ever (like now), then he would have been picked up by WCW and done nothing except slum in the mid-card (maybe with a TV Title reign in there). Then he would get annoyed, leave, sign with the WWF and would be in their Hardcore Division.

One of the weirdest things about AEW is that they have JR. It's like...why hire a guy that is going to clash with your product so much? It's kind of ironic that in 2020, the guy who was mocked for being a shill on commentary towards WCW's dying days is the more appropriate choice for a modern wrestling product, whereas the guy famous for having that authentic connection with audiences has his back to the wall.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> I know, man. I just love giving you shit about it, because for a while there in such a small sample size, I was with you on it being possible. 20+ weeks in, it’s simple: AEW is a better product for TV, even if NXT probably has more consistently good matches.


I actually think nxt is better both in matches and story. However nxt's issue is a lack of wrestlers who look big, and the vibe of the show is still too "indy" 
If they change the whole aesthetic to something more colourful, get out of full sail and start to be treated as the big league. Things might change


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Haha, harsh take on Moxley. You know what though? I was thinking something similar earlier. I don't think he's trash, but there's this thing where wrestling really wants him to be this top level guy, but it's so forced. He doesn't have it all together. I really went sour on him in the WWE around 2016. The Brock match, him showing up places drunk, "I'm Vince McMahon's favorite wrestler" and the Steve Austin podcast. It all came together to really expose him.
> 
> If he were around in the Attitude era, he would have been comfortable in ECW where everyone would think he's the best thing ever (like now), then he would have been picked up by WCW and done nothing except slum in the mid-card (maybe with a TV Title reign in there). Then he would get annoyed, leave, sign with the WWF and would be in their Hardcore Division.
> 
> One of the weirdest things about AEW is that they have JR. It's like...why hire a guy that is going to clash with your product so much? It's kind of ironic that in 2020, the guy who was mocked for being a shill on commentary towards WCW's dying days is the more appropriate choice for a modern wrestling product, whereas the guy famous for having that authentic connection with audiences has his back to the wall.


I didn’t watch Ambrose much, maybe a segment here or there when my nephew had it on. What I seen was a guy who came off like he might have a mental disability. I also remember you saying he was still completely Ambrose, which I didn’t really agree outside of the weird walk.

He had done a good job of creating the separation from Ambrose to Moxley the first3-4 months, but he’s been giving more and more of the Ambrose character to Moxley. He came off Wednesday night like he was supposed to be chasing Jericho for a rematch and not the other way around, which is vehemently stupid story-wise.

And I like the hell out of Moxley, which is why I argued with you about it previously. But I’m man enough to say that maybe you noticed some things I didn’t given you watched him often in WWE.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> I didn’t watch Ambrose much, maybe a segment here or there when my nephew had it on. What I seen was a guy who came off like he might have a mental disability. I also remember you saying he was still completely Ambrose, which I didn’t really agree outside of the weird walk.
> 
> He had done a good job of creating the separation from Ambrose to Moxley the first3-4 months, but he’s been giving more and more of the Ambrose character to Moxley. He came off Wednesday night like he was supposed to be chasing Jericho for a rematch and not the other way around, which is vehemently stupid story-wise.
> 
> And I like the hell out of Moxley, which is why I argued with you about it previously. But I’m man enough to say that maybe you noticed some things I didn’t given you watched him often in WWE.


I watched all of the shield'z wwe run 
And the Moxley we have now is clearly the closer to Ambrose. 
When he came out at double or nothing, he was completely different he had a different vibe. I think the issue with last week is that Moxley is a natural "chaser" he is the one who is running after someone with that "hunter" mentality. Having the title take that predatory behaviour from him


----------



## Bloody Warpath

patpat said:


> I actually think nxt is better both in matches and story. However nxt's issue is a lack of wrestlers who look big, and the vibe of the show is still too "indy"
> If they change the whole aesthetic to something more colourful, get out of full sail and start to be treated as the big league. Things might change


I'm confused by this statement. NXT has a much larger, more diverse roster than AEW. Which is why they are looking for larger talent. Keith Lee, Dijakovic, Killian Dain, Bronson Reed. And those are just some of the talent that has appeared on a somewhat regular basis on television.


----------



## tducey

I really like AEW as well. I think they're here to stay and give them time and they could be the alternative to the WWE has not existed in quite some time.


----------



## patpat

Bloody Warpath said:


> I'm confused by this statement. NXT has a much larger, more diverse roster than AEW. Which is why they are looking for larger talent. Keith Lee, Dijakovic, Killian Dain, Bronson Reed. And those are just some of the talent that has appeared on a somewhat regular basis on television.


I thi I the issue is in their presentation and the overall vibe of the product really.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> There are a certain number of hardcore fans that are going to prioritize AEW. I still think that NXT has got a much better chance of making new fans and they have that main roster pool. AEW is not going to make new wrestling fans.
> 
> When WWE ramps up NXT, which is going to happen, then NXT fans will be able to say exactly the same thing.
> 
> The biggest issue NXT faces, other than not being able to get those 900k hardcores, is simple product fatigue. There are only so many hours in the week, and NXT is hours 6 and 7 of WWE television. For hardcore fans, it’s really hours and 9 when you factor in AEW.


NXT will never be able to tour weekly, not sure why you continue to beat that broken drum, they just wont be able to without redrafting the WWE roster and Vince won't/can't rationalize putting good talents in NXT when Raw and Smackdown are the ones bringing in the revenue. Could you imagine Fox's reaction if they lost Roman Reigns or Bray Wyatt to NXT? It would be a deal killer and rightfully so. 

The AEW/NXT comparison grows farther apart every day and will continue to do so as WWE enters the dead month period of their calendar after Mania and the slew of debuts that AEW has lined up continue to grow the show combined with the stars that they are creating growing into main event level players in 2021 and beyond. NXT simply doesnt have those kinds of guys other than Keith Lee and they already handicapped him drastically. He was hot.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> NXT will never be able to tour weekly, not sure why you continue to beat that broken drum, they just wont be able to without redrafting the WWE roster and Vince won't/can't rationalize putting good talents in NXT when Raw and Smackdown are the ones bringing in the revenue. Could you imagine Fox's reaction if they lost Roman Reigns or Bray Wyatt to NXT? It would be a deal killer and rightfully so.
> 
> The AEW/NXT comparison grows farther apart every day and will continue to do so as WWE enters the dead month period of their calendar after Mania and the slew of debuts that AEW has lined up continue to grow the show combined with the stars that they are creating growing into main event level players in 2021 and beyond. NXT simply doesnt have those kinds of guys other than Keith Lee and they already handicapped him drastically. He was hot.


Wtf did I say anything about them touring? Did you just actually just make that up and claim that it’s me beating a broken drum when I have never even suggested they need to tour once? Holy shit. Wow.

I’m fairly certain the only thing I’ve ever said about NXT touring is that they knew they wouldn’t be able to do in AEW’s early stages because they’re targeting the same amount of fans with a disposal income, and they are going to prioritize AEW. Maybe I’ve said something about them running some special events in other venues when WWE tours or around special events like Mania, which they basically do anyway.

This is even more egregious than people who say that I said AEW would be out of business by now, which is another flat-out lie.

Vince can choose to put main roster talent on NXT any time he wants. There is nothing to say that he can’t use Roman Reigns or Bray Wyatt on NXT AND SmackDown. You’ve just actually bought into the roster split as something legit and binding, and I don’t know what to tell you about that, other than emphasize that this is evidence that kayfabe isn’t completely dead and you can still work people.

Vince could decide to send talent on tour. Daniel Bryan for a month in April, AJ Styles in May, Rey Mysterio in June, The Usos in July, Ronda Rousey in August, Brock Lesnar in September. It wouldn’t affect WWE’s bottom-line at all, and would likely boost NXT to the point they can sign away their TV rights for between $100 million and $150 million.

He hasn’t done that because he’s let Triple H play and they’re not at all worried about the current ratings, because the difference between NXT is a slither in TV terms. Vince is probably up to speed enough to know that TV ratings are kind of archaic anyway. Ideally, they’d love to be able to have their third weekly TV property beat their closest competition by over 20% on its own merit alone, so they can brag to investors about that they know how to do this better on every level, and hot fads come and go, but WWE Quality wins out. They’d love to do this without big-dogging them and having excuses written out there in the media about shock-and-awe and that the poor little guys didn’t stand a chance. That can help promote a “rematch” or a new challenger funded by a billionaire who actually promotes pro-wrestling instead of pedalling shit like Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy and The Dark Order. But they are patient with that and not stressing.

NXT will get little windfalls throughout the year. Right now they are promoting Charlotte/Rhea. Earlier it was the Royal Rumble. Later it will be Survivor Series involvement. None of them will be panic moves, but will be spun as such because people want to root for the underdog and root against anything WWE does. The WWE will panic when ratings fall out of line with AEW’s and it looks like the Khans stand to have an entity that can cut significantly into WWE’s share of the market, affecting their stock price. AEW made a big deal out of signing a five-year deal for Raw’s production costs. The media will spin it as some huge deal for AEW, because yay new guys, but in business terms it is closer to Tony Khan tucking his tail between his legs. They’re just happy to be around, sustainable and barely profitable. If they are profitable and if that deal is iron-clad, because as I’ve said before, and as Meltzer himself has even come out and quietly confirmed—in the TV world they can probably be cancelled at any time. It’s not a risky deal for TNT _at all_, but it’s been spun as the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima.

This isn’t even a war. AEW has established an audience and agreed to sit in the corner and not bother WWE too much. They will give places for talent Vince doesn’t get to work, and serve as unofficial developmental for WWE by fostering potential stars like MJF, who is going to have MAJOR negotiating weight in five years or if he becomes a free agent before then. If that changes—if AEW tries to become a serious threat and NXT starts getting actually thrashed, and not just make-believe thrashed like fans say it is now—that’s when the kiddie gloves come off and yes, you will see major names on NXT, probably ranging from Daniel Bryan to fucking Steve Austin.


----------



## bdon

You really love to promote your viewpoint of facts.

10% MARGIN OF ERROR! TONY KHAN JUST TUCKED HIS TAIL AND RAN!!!


----------



## bdon

And you did say they’d be out of business within a year. You disagreed with Cornette about them being gone by April, saying they’d be gone in a year.


----------



## Jazminator

It might not be financially feasible or even advisable for NXT to tour weekly, but I did catch one of their house shows in Las Vegas a few years ago and it was super AWESOME! Matches included Adam Cole vs Roderick Strong; Aleister Black vs Velveteen Dream; and a four-way match with Peyton Royce, Ember Moon, Kairi Sane and Nikki Cross. The main event was Drew McIntyre defending the NXT title vs Cien Almas.


----------



## K4L318

ya peepz be letting dat negative clown spout on ya, his hero Paul was demoted and NXT is in da yellow zone. 

RAW has all time low numbers off PPV wit no bumps, Edge and Orton aint move no needle and SmackDown to be on da real aint appointment television.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> And you did say they’d be out of business within a year. You disagreed with Cornette about them being gone by April, saying they’d be gone in a year.


No, I didn't. Evidence or you join the liar pile. 

I said the _dream_ might be over by the end of the year, the "dream" referring to the possibility of getting massive TV rights fees, which has been obvious. Khan has already signed on the dotted line for $45 million for four years. That ain't huge money. Raw and SmackDown get abut $300 million and $200 million respectively. And _they_ are considered cheap. Say that I'm wrong about that. I said that I can see them being moved from their time-slot at some point, and that I think NXT will be beating them after WrestleMania. I might actually be wrong about that one, so you might have a ghost of a point to throw at me then.

But no, I didn't predict they will be out of business. I have repeatedly said that the Khans obviously have enough money to keep this alive for as long as Shad wants Tony to have his own little vanity project. But when the TV deals come in as low, if they got their ass kicked, then it depends on how long Shad wants to keep funding that. Right now, they have enough money to keep going. they _might_ be sustainable on their own merit. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining: AEW is not doing gangbusters, has shown no signs of growth and they will never be a threat to WWE. Vince McMahon can still do whatever the fuck he wants with the talent he wants to, because everyone worth a shit is still signing with WWE because Tony Khan now apparently has a budget and Vince still provides a platform several times the size that AEW is and their creative has capped them out. That's what I said would happen by the end of 2020. _Not_ that they would be out of business. Not that Shad Khan wouldn't still be paying out Jericho's contract. Not that they wouldn't still be running shows with fewer and fewer people.



K4L318 said:


> ya peepz be letting dat negative clown spout on ya, his hero Paul was demoted and NXT is in da yellow zone.
> 
> RAW has all time low numbers off PPV wit no bumps, Edge and Orton aint move no needle and SmackDown to be on da real aint appointment television.


Paul Levesque is not my hero. I have been very critical of him, even when the rest of the internet has been on his dick. I think NXT is a vanity project on his behalf too, and I think he takes talent that already have a lot going for them -- talent he would have mocked to Vince even a few years ago -- and uses them to try and get himself over as some sort of savior of wrestling. I've just said that I think his long-term strategy is a smart one to take against AEW, and that I believe it's going to work because he understands wrestling, psychology and booking far better than The Bucks, Omega, Tony Khan and Cody. When AEW fanboys mocked NXT for running at Full Sail, not promoting themselves hard and not going too hard with their angles -- I defended that creative decision because you were _never_ going to beat AEW in those first few weeks. One had the wrestling world's imagination captured and the benefit of being brand new. That is why they didn't debut the same week, no matter what Meltzer echos from the AEW side, and that is why he said it's a "marathon not a sprint." That doesn't mean I want to blow the guy or give a shit if he's the one who runs the WWE or not. 

Honestly, I'd fucking love a shake-up, because that shit's been largely stale. The whole company's DNA needs to change in order to endear itself to viewers in any sort of meaningful sense. The whole DNA of wrestling needs to change, because _no one_ is doing it. You say SmackDown isn't priority viewing, but even that dispassionate fan-base is literally triple that of AEW's. You can't say something a third the size of the wrestling fan's primary choice is the priority programming. It doesn't make any sense. By the way, since people still cling to those key demo statistics, SmackDown does FANTASTIC in that key demo. They do better in that slot than AEW does in theirs. So if you want to pretend that hip, finger-on-the-button folks still watch television, then you'll have to accept that SmackDown is still cooler than AEW. And that is a fucking shame, and that is on AEW. That's why I get so mad at people defending the goofy fucking dorky nerd shit that makes people embarrassed to watch. They could have been cool, but they just had to bring out their 12-sided die on the first date. Now SmackDown is cooler than them. Don't mock the dog food angle -- there are literally several million more who would rather watch that than Marko Stunt flossing.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

K4L318 said:


> ya peepz be letting dat negative clown spout on ya, his hero Paul was demoted and NXT is in da yellow zone.
> 
> RAW has all time low numbers off PPV wit no bumps, Edge and Orton aint move no needle and SmackDown to be on da real aint appointment television.


AEW don’t need to do anything for ratings. Soon WWE will be doing similar numbers ?


----------



## The Wood

They seem to be able to boost theirs by several hundred thousand every now and then. AEW should try it. They could use more fans so that the pool of people going to their live shows and ordering their PPVs isn't so perpetually small, meaning they can't grow and get anyone over.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling you're delusional AEW would get demolished by WWE on monday night if Dynamite moved there to compete against Raw. Fynamite would get 300-400,000 viewers against Raw if they even get that. They can't even get a million viewers against WWE's developmental brand (NXT) which tells you all you all you need to know about this company.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237554004416053254
? AEW won't crack a million viewers head to head against Raw even though Raw is trash it'll still crush Dynamite and it won't even be close. Like I said Dynamite would be lucky to even get 300-400,000 viewers. And it wouldn't be long before they tuck their tails in between their legs and go running back to wednesday night. AEW will never be competition to WWE because 1. AEW appeals only to smarks (the iwc) and they're going to fail in the long run by doing that. The quickest way to fail for a nationally televised company is to appeal to the lowest common denominator (dumb smarks) who love fads and will jump off the AEW bandwagon real soon. And 2. WWE is too big so WWE will never have competition again. That ship sailed on them having competition the moment they bought WCW. 3. AEW will never grow its going to decline in the future just just like ROH. So you can get this delusional mindset out of your head right now, because like I said AEW will never be competition to WWE and AEW will never grow, heck their viewership and is stagnant and their attendance is constantly declining. WWE has nothing to worry about they'll be fine.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Ozell Gray said:


> TKO Wrestling you're delusional AEW would get demolished by WWE on monday night if Dynamite moved there to compete against Raw. Dynamite would get 300-400,000 viewers against Raw if they even get that. They can't even get a million viewers against WWE's developmental brand (NXT) which tells you all you all you need to know about this company.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237554004416053254
> ? AEW won't crack a million viewers head to head against Raw even though Raw is trash it'll still crush Dynamite and it won't even be close. Like I said Dynamite would be lucky to even get 300-400,000 viewers. And it wouldn't be long before they tuck their tails in between their legs and go running back to wednesday night. AEW will never be competition to WWE because 1. AEW appeals only to smarks (the iwc) and they're going to fail in the long run by doing that. The quickest way to fail for a nationally televised company is to appeal to the lowest common denominator (dumb smarks) who love fads and will jump off the AEW bandwagon real soon. And 2. WWE is too big so WWE will never have competition again. That ship sailed on them having competition the moment they bought WCW. 3. AEW will never grow its going to decline in the future just just like ROH. So you can get this delusional mindset out of your head right now, because like I said AEW will never be competition to WWE and AEW will never grow, heck their viewership and is stagnant and their attendance is constantly declining. WWE has nothing to worry about they'll be fine.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> TKO Wrestling you're delusional AEW would get demolished by WWE on monday night if Dynamite moved there to compete against Raw. Fynamite would get 300-400,000 viewers against Raw if they even get that. They can't even get a million viewers against WWE's developmental brand (NXT) which tells you all you all you need to know about this company.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237554004416053254
> ? AEW won't crack a million viewers head to head against Raw even though Raw is trash it'll still crush Dynamite and it won't even be close. Like I said Dynamite would be lucky to even get 300-400,000 viewers. And it wouldn't be long before they tuck their tails in between their legs and go running back to wednesday night. AEW will never be competition to WWE because 1. AEW appeals only to smarks (the iwc) and they're going to fail in the long run by doing that. The quickest way to fail for a nationally televised company is to appeal to the lowest common denominator (dumb smarks) who love fads and will jump off the AEW bandwagon real soon. And 2. WWE is too big so WWE will never have competition again. That ship sailed on them having competition the moment they bought WCW. 3. AEW will never grow its going to decline in the future just just like ROH. So you can get this delusional mindset out of your head right now, because like I said AEW will never be competition to WWE and AEW will never grow, heck their viewership and is stagnant and their attendance is constantly declining. WWE has nothing to worry about they'll be fine.


Sounds like speculation from a worried WWE fan....

900k people choose to watch AEW over NXT. 900k people will choose to watch AEW over RAW....

majority of AEW fans probably don’t even watch RAW/SD.


----------



## bdon

People are still asking JR when’s he going to be on TV again, because most people don’t know AEW even exists. Do you not fucking understand that?


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Sounds like speculation from a worried WWE fan....
> 
> 900k people choose to watch AEW over NXT. 900k people will choose to watch AEW over RAW....
> 
> majority of AEW fans probably don’t even watch RAW/SD.


Nah not a WWE fan. I don't even watch WWE or any wrestling company I just keep up with wrestling by reading about it on the internet.

Im not worried Im just stating facts AEW won't grow and their viewership numbers aren't great and their attendance has dropped dramatically. No 900,000 won't choose to watch Dynamite over Raw, because they'd get WAY LESSviewers then that. Like I said in my comment they'd get 300-400,000 if they're lucky. Most AEW fans are smarks so yes majority of AEW fans do watch Raw and Smackdown. Raw would demolish Dynamite and AEW will go crawling back to wednesday night with their tail in between their legs knowing thst they can't compete against the big boys. It'll be suicide for AEW to run Dynamite head to head against Raw. If they did that then you can kiss AEW goodbye.


----------



## rbl85

Always the people with the least posts who are saying the dumbest things…..


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray is on the money though. Most AEW fans are smarks and still filter wresting through a WWE-based prism. They love to whinge about WWE, and THIS is where AEW fandom, for the most part, comes from. They’re not WWE. That is why the biggest pops are digs at WWE’s creative or them challenging a wrestling trope but they aren’t criticized for the things WWE viewers are used to (the invisible wall that appeared for Darby Allin and Moxley this week). The fans are used to WWE’s nonsensical shit, but want to boo it. So they boo it when it is pointed out, but don’t notice it when it’s not.

Going against Raw is going to see a lot of DVRing. It may be Raw getting DVR’d by about 400k people. It might be AEW getting DVR’d by 500k people.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Nah not a WWE fan. I don't even watch WWE or any wrestling company I just keep up with wrestling by reading about it on the internet.
> 
> Im not worried Im just stating facts AEW won't grow and their viewership numbers aren't great and their attendance has dropped dramatically. No 900,000 won't choose to watch Dynamite over Raw, because they'd get WAY LESSviewers then that. Like I said in my comment they'd get 300-400,000 if they're lucky. Most AEW fans are smarks so yes majority of AEW fans do watch Raw and Smackdown. Raw would demolish Dynamite and AEW will go crawling back to wednesday night with their tail in between their legs knowing thst they can't compete against the big boys. It'll be suicide for AEW to run Dynamite head to head against Raw. If they did that then you can kiss AEW goodbye.


This is literally all speculation. AEW indicators are on the up and you’re still spewing this garbage lol


----------



## The Wood

Which indicators are on the up?


----------



## AEWMoxley

It's a miracle that they drew over 1 million on 3 occasions and that they are still close to 1 million with guys like Chuck Taylor, The Librarians, Dark Order, Joey Janela, etc., appearing on live TV. Dynamite would be losing to NXT on a weekly basis without Moxley or Jericho. It's an absolutely embarrassing roster for the most part.

They will need to improve the roster dramatically, and ensure that MJF is developed into a big deal, otherwise they will be in trouble once Moxley and Jericho eventually leave the company. Maybe Page will develop into a star, too, but MJF is really the key to any long term success they wish to achieve.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> This is literally all speculation. AEW indicators are on the up and you’re still spewing this garbage lol


Up and up? You mean the stagnant 800-900,000 viewers? You mean the declining attendance? So you're the one spewing garbage lol.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> TKO Wrestling you're delusional AEW would get demolished by WWE on monday night if Dynamite moved there to compete against Raw. Fynamite would get 300-400,000 viewers against Raw if they even get that. They can't even get a million viewers against WWE's developmental brand (NXT) which tells you all you all you need to know about this company.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237554004416053254
> ? AEW won't crack a million viewers head to head against Raw even though Raw is trash it'll still crush Dynamite and it won't even be close. Like I said Dynamite would be lucky to even get 300-400,000 viewers. And it wouldn't be long before they tuck their tails in between their legs and go running back to wednesday night. AEW will never be competition to WWE because 1. AEW appeals only to smarks (the iwc) and they're going to fail in the long run by doing that. The quickest way to fail for a nationally televised company is to appeal to the lowest common denominator (dumb smarks) who love fads and will jump off the AEW bandwagon real soon. And 2. WWE is too big so WWE will never have competition again. That ship sailed on them having competition the moment they bought WCW. 3. AEW will never grow its going to decline in the future just just like ROH. So you can get this delusional mindset out of your head right now, because like I said AEW will never be competition to WWE and AEW will never grow, heck their viewership and is stagnant and their attendance is constantly declining. WWE has nothing to worry about they'll be fine.


Two companies have gone to Monday nights where Vince was. One had a solid fan base that supported THEIR product, bought their PPVs, went to their shows and the other was smart enough to have their own night but were never something people paid for. No one paid for TNA. It was free to get into the Impact Zone. They never sold PPVs (only twice did they do more than 20k). They didn't move merch or even promote it really. No one was invested in TNA, it was just a show that people watched.

One show maintained their viewership base when they moved to Mondays, the other was shown to be a skeleton fan base that watched their show if WWE wasn't on. I tend to believe AEW has a solid fan base that has already proven they will choose AEW over WWEs product. Do I think Dynamite would do 2 million on Mondays? Ofcourse not. Do I believe that they would still do 800k? Absolutely. Fans pay to go to their shows, they have sold more PPVs in one year (4 events) than TNA has combined for 18 years. That isn't hyperbole, that is fact. They move merch unlike anyone other than WWE in history. Other than the nWo years, WCW never even moved merch like AEW does. I have been to a Nitro and been to a Dynamite and I was able to grab my Goldberg shirt AFTER the show whereas I avoided the line before Dynamite to walk up to an empty merch table after. Literally all but 5 shirts were gone, it was like the cleaning solution section at Wal Mart these days. That never happened in TNA. Ever. I was at both Slammys in Arlington and neither moved merch. One of those shows was actually a huge house too, Slammy 2012.

So, yeah, AEWs fan base is invested. Is it as big as WCWs? Hell no. It is a year old. There aren't generation of fans telling their kids hey lets go to AEWs show because 10 years ago I went with my dad and I saw *_*. They are building this from scratch but, guess what, their fans, WE are invested. That is how you know it is legit. People buy the PPVs, people buy tickets weekly, people buy the merchandise, people will buy the crap out of their toys, and their video game will be a huge deal. Because AEW knows how to keep fans and turn them into customers. TNA never did.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> Up and up? You mean the stagnant 800-900,000 viewers? You mean the declining attendance? So you're the one spewing garbage lol.


Yes, their lows aren't as low as they were. Nothing below 700k since 2019. They will average 6k for their March Dynamites, that will be their highest average since October when they were still in the honeymoon phase. They sold out Revolution and are over 9k already for DoN. WCW wasn't averaging 10k per PPV back in 1995 even with Hogan in house.

So hate all you want but AEW fans are their own fanbase, they aren't picking AEW 2nd. You can believe that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Up and up? You mean the stagnant 800-900,000 viewers? You mean the declining attendance? So you're the one spewing garbage lol.


??? They sold out Revolution lol. The strong city attendances are high 
-PPV sales are up. 
-Subscribers online are increasing. 
-they recently had their contract extended with TNT. 
-more people are googling AEW than ever


imagine talking about ratings when Dynamite is barely 5 months old lmao. Rome wasn’t built in a day. The garbage you’re spewing is pure speculation.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I just ran the numbers, you can go online and find them, these are averages for Dynamite only, non PPV:

October 7500
November 4000
December 3800
January 3900
February 4000
March (based on what is already sold) 5800

So, yeah, AEW started hot, hit a rough patch, and have rebounded nicely. Attendance is headed north, not south, with growth 3 months in a row. Ratings aren't dipping below 700k anymore like they did twice in 2019. And they are doing this during WRESTLEMANIA SEASON. That is the most amazing part.

So, yeah, keep hating.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes, their lows aren't as low as they were. Nothing below 700k since 2019. They will average 6k for their March Dynamites, that will be their highest average since October when they were still in the honeymoon phase. They sold out Revolution and are over 9k already for DoN. WCW wasn't averaging 10k per PPV back in 1995 even with Hogan in house.
> 
> So hate all you want but AEW fans are their own fanbase, they aren't picking AEW 2nd. You can believe that.


Their viewership for the past 3 months or so has been stagnant at 800-900,000 is my point. Thats not up and up thats stagnation not growth. Average attendance is 4,900-5,000 for Dynamite. But you know the funny part about WCW in 1995? When they launched Nitro in 1995 they beat Raw immediately. WCW was competition immediately to WWE because they had the casuals. AEW can't compete because they only have smarks. No casuals are watching Dynamite. So they won't ever grow if they keep catering y'all. 
AEW's viewership would drop dramatically if they went head to head against Raw so yes on that day AEW fans would pick them second. 

And Im not hating on AEW. Where in any of my posts did I state I hated the company? You can't because you're a liar and can't differentiate hate and facts.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

WCW was a 70 year old company when it made Nitro lmao. They had 2 million fans from day 1 that went with them. They had a larger version of the AEW fan base. Thats my point. WCW drew 2 million on WCW Saturday night then went vs Raw and drew 2 million. AEW would still draw the same numbers they do now. That is my point.

And yes, I apologize for the hater remark, it was wrong. The Wood got mixed into all of this and that dude is such a hater it just makes me sick reading his shit.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> ??? They sold out Revolution lol. The strong city attendances are high
> -PPV sales are up.
> -Subscribers online are increasing.
> -they recently had their contract extended with TNT.
> -more people are googling AEW than ever
> 
> 
> imagine talking about ratings when Dynamite is barely 5 months old lmao. Rome wasn’t built in a day. The garbage you’re spewing is pure speculation.





optikk sucks said:


> ??? They sold out Revolution lol. The strong city attendances are high
> -PPV sales are up.
> -Subscribers online are increasing.
> -they recently had their contract extended with TNT.
> -more people are googling AEW than ever
> 
> 
> imagine talking about ratings when Dynamite is barely 5 months old lmao. Rome wasn’t built in a day. The garbage you’re spewing is pure speculation.


The extension is good for the company, but WarnerMedia could always cancel them because they're not satisfied and plus WarnerMedia has already lost $1.2 billion: and we know that ads for wrestling are abysmal so they'll have to keep WarnerMedia satified if they want to stay on and they'll have to grow as well to stay on. Im talking about the ratings for Dynamite because they're not good and they're not growing. Their ratings are stagnant thats why its always 800-900,000 viewers whenever their ratings come in. So no Im not spewing spectulation but facts.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> The extension is good for the company, but WarnerMedia could always cancel them because they're not satisfied and plus WarnerMedia has already lost $1.2 billion: and we know that ads for wrestling are abysmal so they'll have to keep WarnerMedia satified if they want to stay on and they'll have to grow as well to stay on. Im talking about the ratings for Dynamite because they're not good and they're not growing. Their ratings are stagnant thats why its always 800-900,000 viewers whenever their ratings come in. So no Im not spewing spectulation but facts.


Again, there are other indicators which show growth/profit. I mean you could say relatively AEW are growing compared to WWE, whose ratings are shrinking.

And you think that people who are invested in AEW (buying merch, PPVs etc) would pick RAW with its dwindling ratings?? I bet the overlap between AEW and WWE viewership is minimal.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> WCW was a 70 year old company when it made Nitro lmao.


WCW was 7 years old when they launched Nitro LOL. We're not talking about before Ted Turner bought it because before he bought it it was called Jim Crockett Promotions. So Im strictly talking about WCW which was only 7 years old then. 

And my point is that Nitro immediately beat Raw in the viewership when it launched they didn't have to wait years to grow and compete. They competed immediately and WCW had casuals watching Nitro which is something AEW doesn't have. Theres no casuals watching Dynamite to even think they could compete with Raw. Only smarks watch Dynamite, meanwhile smarks and casuals watch Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> I just ran the numbers, you can go online and find them, these are averages for Dynamite only, non PPV:
> 
> October 7500
> November 4000
> December 3800
> January 3900
> February 4000
> March (based on what is already sold) 5800
> 
> So, yeah, AEW started hot, hit a rough patch, and have rebounded nicely. Attendance is headed north, not south, with growth 3 months in a row. Ratings aren't dipping below 700k anymore like they did twice in 2019. And they are doing this during WRESTLEMANIA SEASON. That is the most amazing part.
> 
> So, yeah, keep hating.


Aew worked smaller cities where crowds averages went down.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Again, there are other indicators which show growth/profit. I mean you could say relatively AEW are growing compared to WWE, whose ratings are shrinking.
> 
> And you think that people who are invested in AEW (buying merch, PPVs etc) would pick RAW with its dwindling ratings?? I bet the overlap between AEW and WWE viewership is minimal.


You really think people would choose Dynamite over Raw when Raw gets 2,2-2,4 million viewers? Dynamite bary gets 800-900,000 viewers now on wednesday. If they went against Raw they'd be lucky to get 300-400,000 viewers. Dynamite would get crushed and no amount of delusional arguments can disprove what I've said. Most AEW viewers watch Raw and Smackdown man. Thats why it'll never work trying to compete against WWE. 

And you're right Raw has been delining in viewership for years (since 2000). Theres no argument against that.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> WCW was 7 years old when they launched Nitro LOL. We're not talking about before Ted Turner bought it because before he bought it it was called Jim Crockett Promotions. So Im strictly talking about WCW which was only 7 years old then.
> 
> And my point is that Nitro immediately beat Raw in the viewership when it launched they didn't have to wait years to grow and compete. They competed immediately and WCW had casuals watching Nitro which is something AEW doesn't have. Theres no casuals watching Dynamite to even think they could compete with Raw. Only smarks watch Dynamite, meanwhile smarks and casuals watch Raw and Smackdown.


I don't think they can compete with Raw today. I just don't think they would lose viewers like TNA. Thats my point. I never said one time on twitter or here that they would draw 2 million on Mondays in 2020. But I damn sure don't see them losing fans, TNA lost half its viewers when it went to Monday, WCW didnt and AEW wouldnt.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> You really think people would choose Dynamite over Raw when Raw gets 2,2-2,4 million viewers? Dynamite bary gets 800-900,000 viewers now on wednesday. If they went against Raw they'd be lucky to get 300-400,000 viewers. Dynamite would get crushed and no amount of delusional arguments can disprove what I've said. Most AEW viewers watch Raw and Smackdown man. Thats why it'll never work trying to compete against WWE.
> 
> And you're right Raw has been delining in viewership for years (since 2000). Theres no argument against that.


Again, this is speculation. Please stop stating it like a fact. You don’t know any more than anyone else.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> I don't think they can compete with Raw today. I just don't think they would lose viewers like TNA. Thats my point. I never said one time on twitter or here that they would draw 2 million on Mondays in 2020. But I damn sure don't see them losing fans, TNA lost half its viewers when it went to Monday, WCW didnt and AEW wouldnt.


If TNA lost half its viewers against Raw what makes you think AEW wouldn't lose 60-75% of its fans against Raw? 

Again it worked for WCW because they had casuals watching Dynamite doesn't. Dynamite just has smarks watching thats it. Thats why not today or anytime in the future will they be able to compete against Raw. It'll be worse then when TNA foolishly tried it. Dynamite's viewership would go from 800-900,000 on wednesday to barely 300-400,000 on monday. So yes AEW would lose more then half its viewers against Raw. Raw would obliterate Dynamite (even though Raw is and has been garbage for years).


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Again, this is speculation. Please stop stating it like a fact. You don’t know any more than anyone else.



I said I knew more then anyone else so stop making false claims and baring false witness. And what I said isn't spectualation when you know it'll happen how I said it would if you have common sense.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> I said I knew more then anyone else so stop making false claims and baring false witness. And what I said isn't spectualation when you know it'll happen how I said it would if you have common sense.


Yawn. Listen bro, we’re arguing about something that won’t ever happen. Dynamite is doing well on Wednesdays. It’s not seeping any ratings, which suggests that its current fanbase is invested in the product. The DVR ratings are supposedly high. TNT are happy in the product.

Youre literally trying to argue your own speculation. You want to be right. Its ok. I can’t be here talking to someone who thinks they’re always right - even though the facts suggest otherwise.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Yawn. Listen bro, we’re arguing about something that won’t ever happen. Dynamite is doing well on Wednesdays. It’s not seeping any ratings, which suggests that its current fanbase is invested in the product. The DVR ratings are supposedly high. TNT are happy in the product.
> 
> Youre literally trying to argue your own speculation. You want to be right. Its ok. I can’t be here talking to someone who thinks they’re always right - even though the facts suggest otherwise.



Im arguing any spectualation nor am I arguing at all. You're right it'll never happen I only brought it because TKO Wrestling mentioned it on twitter. They're not seeping viewers but its stangnant was my point. 

No you want to be right. Its okay for you. I can't be here talking to someone who thinks hes right even though the facts says otherwise.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> If TNA lost half its viewers against Raw what makes you think AEW wouldn't lose 60-75% of its fans against Raw?


Again, because the AEW fan base pays for their product. They are invested. They are already drawing 40% of RAWs audience where as TNA was half that % when they made the move. We could argue in circles all day but the difference between the AEW fanbase and the TNA fanbase is night and day. One pays for the product, the other watched it because it was running solo. AEW would be at 50% of RAW if not for NXT, another factor TNA didnt face. AEW has already held up against a WWE product that most of their fanbase finds superior.

TNA was WWE-lite when they tried it. AEW is far more like WCW in that it is a unique product with invested fans.

Its silly to think they would lose viewers against RAW. It is also silly to think they would get 2 million from day 1.

Both are silly arguments


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Im arguing any spectualation nor am I arguing at all. You're right it'll never happen I only brought it because TKO Wrestling mentioned it on twitter. They're not seeping viewers but its stangnant was my point.
> 
> No you want to be right. Its okay for you. I can't be here talking to someone who thinks hes right even though the facts says otherwise.


Actually I’m pretty critical about it. Until it happens, there’s no point of speculating on it. The indications of AEW having an invested audience are present. You said it’s only smarks watching AEW. Where did you get that fact from? Is that what you _hope_? When AEW is beating a WWE program, it means they have a dedicated fanbase.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Again, because the AEW fan base pays for their product. They are invested. They are already drawing 40% of RAWs audience where as TNA was half that % when they made the move. We could argue in circles all day but the difference between the AEW fanbase and the TNA fanbase is night and day. One pays for the product, the other watched it because it was running solo. AEW would be at 50% of RAW if not for NXT, another factor TNA didnt face. AEW has already held up against a WWE product that most of their fanbase finds superior.
> 
> TNA was WWE-lite when they tried it. AEW is far more like WCW in that it is a unique product with invested fans.
> 
> Its silly to think they would lose viewers against RAW. It is also silly to think they would get 2 million from day 1.
> 
> Both are silly arguments





TKO Wrestling said:


> Again, because the AEW fan base pays for their product. They are invested. They are already drawing 40% of RAWs audience where as TNA was half that % when they made the move. We could argue in circles all day but the difference between the AEW fanbase and the TNA fanbase is night and day. One pays for the product, the other watched it because it was running solo. AEW would be at 50% of RAW if not for NXT, another factor TNA didnt face. AEW has already held up against a WWE product that most of their fanbase finds superior.
> 
> TNA was WWE-lite when they tried it. AEW is far more like WCW in that it is a unique product with invested fans.
> 
> Its silly to think they would lose viewers against RAW. It is also silly to think they would get 2 million from day 1.
> 
> Both are silly arguments



I never said the AEW fanbase weren't invested in the product so where are you getting this from? They're only drawing 40% of Raw's viewership is because Raw's viewership has been declining since 2000. So it has more to do with WWE putting out a garbage product since 2000 then anything else. AEW wouldn't be at 50% of Raw's viewership of NXT wasn't on. Thats just spectulation with no facts. When WCW closed none of those fans watched Raw because they were fans of WCW only and its the same with NXT. NXT fans are only fans of NXT just like most AEW fans wouldn't suddenly watch NXT if it was on a different day. And NXT is only WWE's developmental brand and they're struggling to only get 100,000 more viewers than it. Most of their fanbase doesn't find NXT to be the superior product, because most fans aren't on the internet and if they really thought it was the superior product it'd get bigger viewers then its currently getting. The iwc is a minority of people who watch WWE most of their fans are casuals. 

So AEW isn't WWElite like TNA was when their two past world champions are ex WWE guys? Their main event picture are literally ex WWE guys thats WWElite. AEW is nowhere WCW in their product. WCW had casuals watching because their product was good. AEW only has smarks watching that claim it to be good. 

Its silly to think that they won't lose viewers to Raw and I never said they had to get 2 million on day 1. I simply said they won't be competition to WWE.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Actually I’m pretty critical about it. Until it happens, there’s no point of speculating on it. The indications of AEW having an invested audience are present. You said it’s only smarks watching AEW. Where did you get that fact from? Is that what you _hope_? When AEW is beating a WWE program, it means they have a dedicated fanbase.





optikk sucks said:


> Actually I’m pretty critical about it. Until it happens, there’s no point of speculating on it. The indications of AEW having an invested audience are present. You said it’s only smarks watching AEW. Where did you get that fact from? Is that what you _hope_? When AEW is beating a WWE program, it means they have a dedicated fanbase.


You're right theres no point in speculating about it until it happens.

Its obvious only smarks watch AEW if it was more then smarks they'd be getting viewership numbers then they're getting right now. They're beating NXT by only 100,000 viewers and NXT is a developmental brand. So thats not impressive. 

I never denied AEW has a dedicated fanbase I was resplying to TKO Wrestling about Dynamite going against Raw which would be suicide for AEW.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

So many assumptions going on here being presented as facts. Laughable.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> You're right theres no point in speculating about it until it happens.
> 
> Its obvious only smarks watch AEW if it was more then smarks they'd be getting viewership numbers then they're getting right now. They're beating NXT by only 100,000 viewers and NXT is a developmental brand. So thats not impressive.
> 
> I never denied AEW has a dedicated fanbase I was resplying to TKO Wrestling about Dynamite going against Raw which would be suicide for AEW.


If AEW have a dedicated fanbase that means they'll watch even if goes against RAW. RAW/SD are losing viewers - that could suggest that people are less interested/invested in the shows. AEW don't have that issue. People tune in week in week out with no fail. The trends are in favour of AEW, not WWE. You have _assumed_ AEW viewers will pick RAW over Dynamite. But based on what? Based on pure garbage speculation. I'm not saying that Dynamite viewers will pick AEW over RAW at all.. I am saying that you're basing your view on your own speculation/biases.

And again "it's obvious only smarks watch aew". Again, you've speculated something. If you have genuine population data of smark viewership, we can talk.


----------



## FatAbomination

Viewership went down below 800k a few times last year, they have yet to do that yet this year, and most weeks they are above 850k, that has to be seen well. 

Obviously they weren't going to retain the 1.4 million viewers that they had on the debut episode, just like how no one expected Smackdown to do 3.8 million viewers every week after the debut on FOX.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW wouldn't be at 50% of Raw's viewership of NXT wasn't on. Thats just spectulation with no facts.


I hope you read this again and see the irony in it.



> So AEW isn't WWElite like TNA was when their two past world champions are ex WWE guys? Their main event picture are literally ex WWE guys thats WWElite.


Chris Jericho came from WCW and before that ECW, and the gimmick he is using now is far more similar to the one he used in WCW than any he used in WWF. If you're going to make this argument, you have to apply that to WWE as well. Their top guys are from ROH, New Japan, TNA and the indies. NXT's most successful guys are vets from other organizations. Hopefully, your preference for WWE will show you how silly of a argument this is when you think about it.


----------



## bdon

DOTL said:


> I hope you read this again and see the irony in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho came from WCW and before that ECW, and the gimmick he is using now is far more similar to the one he used in WCW than any he used in WWF. If you're going to make this argument, you have to apply that to WWE as well. Their top guys are from ROH, New Japan, TNA and the indy's. NXT's most successful guys are vets from other organizations. Hopefully, your preference for WWE will show you how silly of a argument this is when you think about it.


Who are you speaking to? I need to see now lol


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> Who are you speaking to? I need to see now lol


@Ozell Gray


----------



## bdon

Oh. Well, he is in the bottomless pit for a reason.


----------



## Purple Haze

Thankfully i already put those lunatics on ignore.
Trying to compare AEW and TNA is such a stupid discussion. 
And the speculations aren't worth mentioning.


----------



## RiverFenix

Trump will have an address at 8pm tonight - will kill the ratings this week.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> If AEW have a dedicated fanbase that means they'll watch even if goes against RAW. RAW/SD are losing viewers - that could suggest that people are less interested/invested in the shows. AEW don't have that issue. People tune in week in week out with no fail. The trends are in favour of AEW, not WWE. You have _assumed_ AEW viewers will pick RAW over Dynamite. But based on what? Based on pure garbage speculation. I'm not saying that Dynamite viewers will pick AEW over RAW at all.. I am saying that you're basing your view on your own speculation/biases.
> 
> And again "it's obvious only smarks watch aew". Again, you've speculated something. If you have genuine population data of smark viewership, we can talk.



No they won't watch if they went against Raw they'll watch it when its on wednesday which is its original day. Again Dynamite would get destroyed in the ratings it wouldn't even be a contest. Dynamite would be lucky to get 300-400,000 viewers. And thats if they even get that. Raw and Smackdown are losing viewers but that diesn't mean that Dynamite could compete because they can't and eon't be able to. Everyone with enough knowledge knows that most viewers will choose a crappy Raw over an overhyped Dynamite. Its clear as day. So you're comment is nothing more then garbage false claims. 

If it was more then just smarks watching they'd be getting viewership numbers and thats a fact. The only people watching are smarks thats why they're viewership is only 800-900,000 viewers. Even thats stagnant because it flucuates between 800-900,000 weekly so theres no growth there. Not to mention they've lost 500-600,000 viewers already from their debut. Attendance is down and they're expecting low attendance tonight because tickets weren't being sold.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> I hope you read this again and see the irony in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho came from WCW and before that ECW, and the gimmick he is using now is far more similar to the one he used in WCW than any he used in WWF. If you're going to make this argument, you have to apply that to WWE as well. Their top guys are from ROH, New Japan, TNA and the indies. NXT's most successful guys are vets from other organizations. Hopefully, your preference for WWE will show you how silly of a argument this is when you think about it.



My point was he claimed that TNA was WWElite when AEW is WWElite as well. Thats what my point was. I know Jericho came from WCW, but he made his name in WWE because thats where most people know him from not WCW. Of course WWE's top performers are from ROH and TNA because WWE poached their talent. 

I don't even watch WWE or any wrestling but thanks for making a foolish comment. I only keep up with wrestling through the internet reading whats going on.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Purple Haze said:


> Thankfully i already put those lunatics on ignore.
> Trying to compare AEW and TNA is such a stupid discussion.
> And the speculations aren't worth mentioning.


Yes but it helps people understand the reasons AEW is far superior than TNA was. Haters want to point dumb things out


Ozell Gray said:


> No they won't watch if they went against Raw they'll watch it when its on wednesday which is its original day. Again Dynamite would get destroyed in the ratings it wouldn't even be a contest. Dynamite would be lucky to get 300-400,000 viewers. And thats if they even get that. Raw and Smackdown are losing viewers but that diesn't mean that Dynamite could compete because they can't and eon't be able to. Everyone with enough knowledge knows that most viewers will choose a crappy Raw over an overhyped Dynamite. Its clear as day. So you're comment is nothing more then garbage false claims.
> 
> If it was more then just smarks watching they'd be getting viewership numbers and thats a fact. The only people watching are smarks thats why they're viewership is only 800-900,000 viewers. Even thats stagnant because it flucuates between 800-900,000 weekly so theres no growth there. Not to mention they've lost 500-600,000 viewers already from their debut. Attendance is down and they're expecting low attendance tonight because tickets weren't being sold.


I just provided the data for you showing that attendance has grown 3 straight months. Not even counting the PPV numbers which are higher now than in November.

I really don't understand what you are still arguing about.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> My point was he claimed that TNA was WWElite when AEW is WWElite as well. Thats what my point was. I know Jericho came from WCW, but he made his name in WWE because thats where most people know him from not WCW. Of course WWE's top performers are from ROH and TNA because WWE poached their talent.
> 
> I don't even watch WWE or any wrestling but thanks for making a foolish comment. I only keep up with wrestling through the internet reading whats going on.


They are NOTHING like WWE. Just because some former WWE workers work in AEW does not mean it is WWE lite. TNA literally tried to be WWE from 2010 onwards.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes but it helps people understand the reasons AEW is far superior than TNA was. Haters want to point dumb things out
> 
> 
> I just provided the data for you showing that attendance has grown 3 straight months. Not even counting the PPV numbers which are higher now than in November.
> 
> I really don't understand what you are still arguing about.


My argument is that they started with 10,000 on average in attendance and its not at 4,900-5,000 people. Thats what I was arguing. Thats a big decline to go from 10,000 to where they are now.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> My point was he claimed that TNA was WWElite when AEW is WWElite as well. Thats what my point was. I know Jericho came from WCW, but he made his name in WWE because thats where most people know him from not WCW. Of course WWE's top performers are from ROH and TNA because WWE poached their talent.
> 
> I don't even watch WWE or any wrestling but thanks for making a foolish comment. I only keep up with wrestling through the internet reading whats going on.


What part of what I said was foolish? The part that it doesn’t make sense to compare wrestling promotions based off of the talent they share, or the part that you can’t get on someone’s speculation using your own speculation as a rebuttal?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> What part of what I said was foolish? The part that it doesn’t make sense to compare wrestling promotions based off of the talent they share, or the part that you can’t get on someone’s speculation using your own speculation as a rebuttal?



The foolish part of your comment is when you I liked WWE when I don't watch WWE at all. I didn't use spectulation I stated facts that can't be refuted.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> WCW was 7 years old when they launched Nitro LOL. We're not talking about before Ted Turner bought it because before he bought it it was called Jim Crockett Promotions. So Im strictly talking about WCW which was only 7 years old then.
> 
> And my point is that Nitro immediately beat Raw in the viewership when it launched they didn't have to wait years to grow and compete. They competed immediately and WCW had casuals watching Nitro which is something AEW doesn't have. Theres no casuals watching Dynamite to even think they could compete with Raw. Only smarks watch Dynamite, meanwhile smarks and casuals watch Raw and Smackdown.


Different time - wrestling was more mainstream & all TV ratings were higher across the board.


Ozell Gray said:


> I never said the AEW fanbase weren't invested in the product so where are you getting this from? They're only drawing 40% of Raw's viewership is because Raw's viewership has been declining since 2000. So it has more to do with WWE putting out a garbage product since 2000 then anything else. AEW wouldn't be at 50% of Raw's viewership of NXT wasn't on. Thats just spectulation with no facts. When WCW closed none of those fans watched Raw because they were fans of WCW only and its the same with NXT. NXT fans are only fans of NXT just like most AEW fans wouldn't suddenly watch NXT if it was on a different day. And NXT is only WWE's developmental brand and they're struggling to only get 100,000 more viewers than it. Most of their fanbase doesn't find NXT to be the superior product, because most fans aren't on the internet and if they really thought it was the superior product it'd get bigger viewers then its currently getting. The iwc is a minority of people who watch WWE most of their fans are casuals.
> 
> So AEW isn't WWElite like TNA was when their two past world champions are ex WWE guys? Their main event picture are literally ex WWE guys thats WWElite. AEW is nowhere WCW in their product. WCW had casuals watching because their product was good. AEW only has smarks watching that claim it to be good.
> 
> Its silly to think that they won't lose viewers to Raw and I never said they had to get 2 million on day 1. I simply said they won't be competition to WWE.


Where


Ozell Gray said:


> My argument is that they started with 10,000 on average in attendance and its not at 4,900-5,000 people. Thats what I was arguing. Thats a big decline to go from 10,000 to where they are now.


crowds of 10,000 were in bigger cities. To expect them do same number in all cities just dumb


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Different time - wrestling was more mainstream & all TV ratings were higher across the board.
> 
> Where
> 
> crowds of 10,000 were in bigger cities. To expect them do same number in all cities just dumb


WCW hooked the casuals to watch thats why Nitro beat Raw immediately after it debuted. WCW put out a product casuals wanted to watch. 

Literally since I made my first post earlier. 

Its still a decline and a big one at that. You'd expect a decline but not as big as they've had.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> The foolish part of your comment is when you I liked WWE when I don't watch WWE at all. I didn't use spectulation I stated facts that can't be refuted.


You don’t have to like WWE to prefer it over AEW.
And what facts were those? Because all I saw was you negating everything with your own speculation.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> You don’t have to like WWE to prefer it over AEW.
> And what facts were those? Because all I saw was you negating everything with your own speculation.





DOTL said:


> You don’t have to like WWE to prefer it over AEW.
> And what facts were those? Because all I saw was you negating everything with your own speculation.


I can't prefer something that I don't watch. The facts I atated were it'd be suicide for AEW to have Dynamite compete against Raw because Dynamite would get destroyed, AEW's viewership is stagnant its the same 800-900,000 watching it with no growth, and their attendance has dropped way down. They went from 10,000 people in attendance to 4,900-5,000 people now. This isn't spectualation.


----------



## validreasoning

Meltzer attendance figures since Christmas


----------



## Ozell Gray

validreasoning said:


> Meltzer attendance figures since Christmas



Wait what? Last I heard they were getting 4,900-5,000 people. Now they're only getting 3,906 people? Because thats what it says in your link.


----------



## validreasoning

Ozell Gray said:


> Wait what? Last I heard they were getting 4,900-5,000 people. Now they're only getting 3,906 people? Because thats what it says in your link.


Average is 3,900 over past 9 weeks or in 2020


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes, their lows aren't as low as they were. Nothing below 700k since 2019. They will average 6k for their March Dynamites, that will be their highest average since October when they were still in the honeymoon phase. They sold out Revolution and are over 9k already for DoN. WCW wasn't averaging 10k per PPV back in 1995 even with Hogan in house.
> 
> So hate all you want but AEW fans are their own fanbase, they aren't picking AEW 2nd. You can believe that.


To be fair, these numbers are what they are literally only because of two guys. It's all Moxley and Jericho. Without them, they'd be drawing 500K viewers and 2000 people in attendance weekly. The rest of their roster, outside of MJF, SUCKS. I don't think that can be stressed enough. They don't have anybody else who can draw.

A company that is so dependent on just two guys is very fragile. Maybe things will change if they add more potential stars to take over along with MJF in the future, but as of now, it's hard to see this company being anywhere near as successful after Moxley and Jericho leave.


----------



## Britz94xD

The irony is that if NXT didn't exist, AEW would look way more small time compared to Raw and Smackdown on Fox than they do now. WWE could've convinced everyone that they were TNA 2.0. (especially when they had Tye Dillinger in a big singles match on PPV). etc

But since WWE is at an all time low in ratings and NXT at full sail looks lame as hell. AEW are in a good place right about now. Thanks Vince.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I can't prefer something that I don't watch. The facts I atated were it'd be suicide for AEW to have Dynamite compete against Raw because Dynamite would get destroyed, AEW's viewership is stagnant its the same 800-900,000 watching it with no growth, and their attendance has dropped way down. They went from 10,000 people in attendance to 4,900-5,000 people now. This isn't spectualation.


Of course you can. People do it all the time. 

You’re just throwing up numbers that have nothing to do with the claim that AEW would lose it’s audience against WWE.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Of course you can. People do it all the time.
> 
> You’re just throwing up numbers that have nothing to do with the claim that AEW would lose it’s audience against WWE.


Well Im not one of them.


I said it'll be somewhere around there if their lucky enough to even get that. AEW would lose its audience against Raw theres no spinning it. They'd lose shamelessly. 

But AEW won't ever go against Raw or Smackdown so you'll never see it happen.


----------



## Britz94xD

I'm calling that If AEW keep this momentum up and get some big names, they'll be doing 2 mil viewers by the end of the year. Raw will be doing below that.


----------



## Cult03

Britz94xD said:


> I'm calling that If AEW keep this momentum up and get some big names, they'll be doing 2 mil viewers by the end of the year. Raw will be doing below that.


If all of the big names from Raw went to AEW then maybe this would happen


----------



## AEWMoxley

RAW has no big names. AEW won't draw 2 million though. It's delusional to expect 2 mil with guys like Joey Janela, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Dark Order, Private Party, etc., getting TV time.


----------



## Cult03

AEWMoxley said:


> RAW has no big names. AEW won't draw 2 million though. It's delusional to expect 2 mil with guys like Joey Janela, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Dark Order, Private Party, etc., getting TV time.


If Raw has no big names then neither does AEW (Apart from Jericho). Styles, Brock, Drew, Edge, Orton, Owens, Mysterio, Rusev, Joe and Rollins would all be 2nd in line for the title if they left Raw for AEW


----------



## AEWMoxley

Cult03 said:


> If Raw has no big names then neither does AEW (Apart from Jericho). Styles, Brock, Drew, Edge, Orton, Owens, Mysterio, Rusev, Joe and Rollins would all be 2nd in line for the title if they left Raw for AEW


None of those guys are big names who have ever done anything for business except for Brock. But Brock's drawing power diminished greatly after the end of 2012. I can't imagine that it's any better now. Plus, he would show up twice a year.

None of them would push AEW's viewership any higher than it currently is. Certainly nowhere near 2 million.


----------



## Cult03

AEWMoxley said:


> None of those guys are big names who have ever done anything for business except for Brock. But Brock's drawing power diminished greatly after the end of 2012. I can't imagine that it's any better now. Plus, he would show up twice a year.
> 
> None of them would push AEW's viewership any higher than it currently is. Certainly nowhere near 2 million.


As if.. Any of those guys signing with AEW would make a Raw fan change the channel. I was agreeing that they wouldn't get two million, but those guys being signed definitely bring new fans over.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Cult03 said:


> As if.. Any of those guys signing with AEW would make a Raw fan change the channel. I was agreeing that they wouldn't get two million, but those guys being signed definitely bring new fans over.


If those guys left WWE, they'd still get 2 million viewers weekly. They wouldn't make a difference on AEW either. WWE put main roster talent on NXT, and that episode didn't crack a million - something Dynamite did 3 times. I don't even think that the viewership of that NXT episode would crack the top 5 of most watched Dynamite episodes.


----------



## Cult03

AEWMoxley said:


> If those guys left WWE, they'd still get 2 million viewers weekly. They wouldn't make a difference on AEW either. WWE put main roster talent on NXT, and that episode didn't crack a million - something Dynamite did 3 times. I don't even think that the viewership of that NXT episode would crack the top 5 of most watched Dynamite episodes.


We aren't even really talking about the same thing. I get what you're saying and I agree, but for AEW to swap ratings with Raw they'd have to completely swap rosters to come close.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I wonder how much Trump's address will end up affecting AEW/NXT ratings.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Cult03 said:


> We aren't even really talking about the same thing. I get what you're saying and I agree, but for AEW to swap ratings with Raw they'd have to completely swap rosters to come close.


But I'm saying that even that wouldn't be enough. It's the WWE brand that people watch for, not any individual talent, although even then, the number that people watch their shows is decreasing significantly each year. But for a new show, 1 million is pretty much the ceiling.

Now, if you add someone like John Cena, Batista, or a legend like The Rock, Austin, Taker, or Goldberg, then yes, any of those individuals would elevate AEW. But that's a very exclusive group.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Well Im not one of them.
> 
> 
> I said it'll be somewhere around there if their lucky enough to even get that. AEW would lose its audience against Raw theres no spinning it. They'd lose shamelessly.
> 
> But AEW won't ever go against Raw or Smackdown so you'll never see it happen.


This is still speculation. Which is my point.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> The extension is good for the company, but WarnerMedia could always cancel them because they're not satisfied and plus WarnerMedia has already lost $1.2 billion: and we know that ads for wrestling are abysmal so they'll have to keep WarnerMedia satified if they want to stay on and they'll have to grow as well to stay on. Im talking about the ratings for Dynamite because they're not good and they're not growing. Their ratings are stagnant thats why its always 800-900,000 viewers whenever their ratings come in. So no Im not spewing spectulation but facts.


Just want to point out this is an excellent point. People like to act like the AEW has some giant leverage to ensure their contracts are guaranteed without out-clauses for Turner. 



optikk sucks said:


> Again, this is speculation. Please stop stating it like a fact. You don’t know any more than anyone else.


He does. He doesn’t need to say it, but he is speaking sense. Not all opinions are based in education. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Again, because the AEW fan base pays for their product. They are invested. They are already drawing 40% of RAWs audience where as TNA was half that % when they made the move. We could argue in circles all day but the difference between the AEW fanbase and the TNA fanbase is night and day. One pays for the product, the other watched it because it was running solo. AEW would be at 50% of RAW if not for NXT, another factor TNA didnt face. AEW has already held up against a WWE product that most of their fanbase finds superior.
> 
> TNA was WWE-lite when they tried it. AEW is far more like WCW in that it is a unique product with invested fans.
> 
> Its silly to think they would lose viewers against RAW. It is also silly to think they would get 2 million from day 1.
> 
> Both are silly arguments


That is terrible logic. There are people that would have paid for TNA’s product and even if there weren’t, it says nothing for the didferent



optikk sucks said:


> Actually I’m pretty critical about it. Until it happens, there’s no point of speculating on it. The indications of AEW having an invested audience are present. You said it’s only smarks watching AEW. Where did you get that fact from? Is that what you _hope_? When AEW is beating a WWE program, it means they have a dedicated fanbase.


People can speculate. Fuck’s sake. It’s not a sin. People have careers speculating. If you don’t speculate on data and just react to the stuff behind you, then you’re always going to be chasing your tail. You just don’t like what he’s saying. 



Purple Haze said:


> Thankfully i already put those lunatics on ignore.
> Trying to compare AEW and TNA is such a stupid discussion.
> And the speculations aren't worth mentioning.


It’s your side doing it, brah. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> They are NOTHING like WWE. Just because some former WWE workers work in AEW does not mean it is WWE lite. TNA literally tried to be WWE from 2010 onwards.


No, they actually are. That has been a critical gripe of them from the start. 



Ozell Gray said:


> My argument is that they started with 10,000 on average in attendance and its not at 4,900-5,000 people. Thats what I was arguing. Thats a big decline to go from 10,000 to where they are now.


This sort of logic gets confusing for some people here. If 10k drops to 3k and then 3k rises to 3.2 then the metrics are obviously on AEW’s side. They’re going upwards! 



DOTL said:


> What part of what I said was foolish? The part that it doesn’t make sense to compare wrestling promotions based off of the talent they share, or the part that you can’t get on someone’s speculation using your own speculation as a rebuttal?


Stop. Just stop. No one was saying that. You are trying (again) to misrepresent people to start an argument that will spiral out.



DOTL said:


> You don’t have to like WWE to prefer it over AEW.
> And what facts were those? Because all I saw was you negating everything with your own speculation.


DOTL is afraid of alleged speculation, folks. Ozell is looking at the data and responding to it and using it to think forward. 



AEWMoxley said:


> None of those guys are big names who have ever done anything for business except for Brock. But Brock's drawing power diminished greatly after the end of 2012. I can't imagine that it's any better now. Plus, he would show up twice a year.
> 
> None of them would push AEW's viewership any higher than it currently is. Certainly nowhere near 2 million.


Have to completely disagree with you here. Jericho and Moxley weren’t big draws in WWE either. Their influence is entirely environmental. If you get any of those names in AEW? They’re helping out. Maybe even more so than Mox (sorry to start something there).


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> This is still speculation. Which is my point.





DOTL said:


> This is still speculation. Which is my point.



Thats not speculation its facts. They'd lose more then 60-75% or more going against Raw. They wouldn't be able to compete on any level whatsoever. So if anyone's speculating its you AEW fans on this forum, on twitter, and on other sites thinking they can compete when they can't.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> Just want to point out this is an excellent point. People like to act like the AEW has some giant leverage to ensure their contracts are guaranteed without out-clauses for Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> He does. He doesn’t need to say it, but he is speaking sense. Not all opinions are based in education.
> 
> 
> 
> That is terrible logic. There are people that would have paid for TNA’s product and even if there weren’t, it says nothing for the didferent
> 
> 
> 
> People can speculate. Fuck’s sake. It’s not a sin. People have careers speculating. If you don’t speculate on data and just react to the stuff behind you, then you’re always going to be chasing your tail. You just don’t like what he’s saying.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s your side doing it, brah.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they actually are. That has been a critical gripe of them from the start.
> 
> 
> 
> This sort of logic gets confusing for some people here. If 10k drops to 3k and then 3k rises to 3.2 then the metrics are obviously on AEW’s side. They’re going upwards!
> 
> 
> 
> Stop. Just stop. No one was saying that. You are trying (again) to misrepresent people to start an argument that will spiral out.
> 
> 
> 
> DOTL is afraid of alleged speculation, folks. Ozell is looking at the data and responding to it and using it to think forward.
> 
> 
> 
> Have to completely disagree with you here. Jericho and Moxley weren’t big draws in WWE either. Their influence is entirely environmental. If you get any of those names in AEW? They’re helping out. Maybe even more so than Mox (sorry to start something there).


The Wood they don't understand statistics or facts because they're AEW fanboys. They don't understand that going from 10,000 to 4,900-5,000 then to 3,900 which is what they're doing now is a dramatic decline. This means people have lost interest in the product. Not to mention they started with 1.4 million viewers and lost 500-600,000 of those viewers already, and they're viewership is stagnant now at 800-900,000 viewers weekly. None of these numbers are good they're terrible.

Yeah these fanboys don't understand that. They think, because WarnerMedia extended the deal that thats it when thats not how tv deals work. If WarnerMedia gets disatisfied with their low viewership then they can cancel Dynamite and rip up the contract. Especially now that WarnerMedia has already lost $1.2 billion WarnerMedia takes $1.2 billion revenue hit in hopes that HBO Max pays off in the long run

And we all know that ads for wrestling are abysmal anyways, because most advertisers hate wrestling so AEW are in trouble in the future because they're not growing their audience. 

Think about this they claim TNA was WWElite and yet AEW is WWElite as well since they're pushing ex WWE guys. I mean their two world champions are are ex WWE guys so they're WWElite just like TNA. Theres no difference between them. 

They hate us The Wood, because we bring facts to the table with actual data to back up what we say and they have none thats why they get mad, because they can't refute what we say. All they do is throw temper tantrums and misrepresent you to try and win an argument.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats not speculation its facts. They'd lose more then 60-75% or more going against Raw. They wouldn't be able to compete on any level whatsoever. So if anyone's speculating its you AEW fans on this forum, on twitter, and on other sites thinking they can compete when they can't.


Unless you test that theory, it’s no less speculation than what the other user said. Saying that you have numbers and putting up random percentages doesn’t change the fact that your speculation is unproven in the real world. I can put up numbers too. 133, 109, 7. Therefore you’re wrong.

See. It means jack.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Unless you test that theory, it’s no less speculation than what the other user said. Saying that you have numbers and putting up random percentages doesn’t change the fact that your speculation is unproven in the real world. I can put up numbers too. 133, 109, 7. Therefore you’re wrong.
> 
> See. It means jack.





DOTL said:


> Unless you test that theory, it’s no less speculation than what the other user said. Saying that you have numbers and putting up random percentages doesn’t change the fact that your speculation is unproven in the real world. I can put up numbers too. 133, 109, 7. Therefore you’re wrong.
> 
> See. It means jack.



Its not random percentages since its a fact that Dynamite would lose that amount or more going against Raw. 

Im not wrong you just can't accept that you're wrong. 

So see to it Jack.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Its not random percentages since its a fact that Dynamite would lose that amount or more going against Raw.
> 
> Im not wrong you just can't accept that you're wrong.
> 
> So see to it Jack.



Here’s the thing. My argument isn’t that you’re wrong. My argument is that it’s hilarious that you call out people for speculation and then go on acting as if your speculation is a fact.

Please tell me, where did you get you numbers from?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Here’s the thing. My argument isn’t that you’re wrong. My argument is that it’s hilarious that you call out people for speculation and then go on acting as if your speculation is a fact.
> 
> Please tell me, where did you get you numbers from?



No you said I was specualating then I said you were speculating thats how this happened. You said about me first not the other way around.

Those numbers are numbers (300-400,000 viewers) I said they would have if that is if they went against Raw. I also said they'd be lucky to even get that because they're going against a giant like Raw.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No you said I was specualating then I said you were speculating thats how this happened. You said about me first not the other way around.


Go back to my first post on the subject. I quote you getting on one of the users for speculation before you started speculating about why he was wrong. Don’t try to warp the conversation. I don’t feel like quoting it, but if you misrepresent this again I will.



> Those numbers are numbers (300-400,000 viewers) I said they would have if that is if they went against Raw. I also said they'd be lucky to even get that because they're going against a giant like Raw.


“I said” is not data.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Go back to my first post on the subject. I quote you getting on one of the users for speculation before you started speculating about why he was wrong. Don’t try to warp the conversation. I don’t feel like quoting it, but if you misrepresent this again I will.
> 
> 
> 
> “I said” is not data.



You're the one that misrepresented me from the beginning when you said I preferred WWE when I don't even watch it. So you're misrepresenting me. 

The numbers I gave are about what they'd be lucky to get.


----------



## validreasoning

The Wood said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Have to completely disagree with you here. Jericho and Moxley weren’t big draws in WWE either. Their influence is entirely environmental. If you get any of those names in AEW? They’re helping out. Maybe even more so than Mox (sorry to start something there).


Yeah it's about putting people in new environment. As you say Moxley and Jericho made very little impact on wwe business. Styles drew better than mox as champion in same year. Rollins easily mainevented more shows drawing 10k fans than mox or Jericho in WWE.

Look at the effect hall and Nash had in WCW yet couldn't draw in WWE despite big pushes.

Not sure Batista, Goldberg, Austin etc would be of much value past initial week or two. Goldberg is only one who can go but only for extremely short matches which would get old quite quickly I would assume if he was doing it every week or second week.

Cena, Brock, Rousey, Reigns, Lynch obviously would be difference makers were they to join AEW.


----------



## WolvesofBabylon

Yesterday was a big news day for Coronavirus news so I would imagine a decline in AEW ratings honestlt.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## AEWMoxley

WolvesofBabylon said:


> Yesterday was a big news day for Coronavirus news so I would imagine a decline in AEW ratings honestlt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Last night's show would have experienced a decline even without all of the coronavirus news just based on how little actually happened. Felt very much like a filler episode.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Last night's show would have experienced a decline even without all of the coronavirus news just based on how little actually happened. Felt very much like a filler episode.


This episode was just there to build for the Newark show and it did his job.


----------



## IamMark

bad numbers


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

IamMark said:


> bad numbers
> 
> View attachment 83796
> 
> View attachment 83797


Not surprised AT ALL.

Last week was a flop. They lost viewers for sure. Even I skimmed through this week.


----------



## AEWMoxley

As I expected, they dropped below 800K. People will blame the coronavirus news that was circulating at the same time, but this show would have done poor numbers regardless. It was a bad episode with nothing worthwhile happening.


----------



## DOTL

Bunch of news shows on top. Not really surprised.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Understandable.


----------



## rbl85

I think there will be no Dynamite for a few weeks.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> The Wood they don't understand statistics or facts because they're AEW fanboys. They don't understand that going from 10,000 to 4,900-5,000 then to 3,900 which is what they're doing now is a dramatic decline. This means people have lost interest in the product. Not to mention they started with 1.4 million viewers and lost 500-600,000 of those viewers already, and they're viewership is stagnant now at 800-900,000 viewers weekly. None of these numbers are good they're terrible.
> 
> Yeah these fanboys don't understand that. They think, because WarnerMedia extended the deal that thats it when thats not how tv deals work. If WarnerMedia gets disatisfied with their low viewership then they can cancel Dynamite and rip up the contract. Especially now that WarnerMedia has already lost $1.2 billion WarnerMedia takes $1.2 billion revenue hit in hopes that HBO Max pays off in the long run
> 
> And we all know that ads for wrestling are abysmal anyways, because most advertisers hate wrestling so AEW are in trouble in the future because they're not growing their audience.
> 
> Think about this they claim TNA was WWElite and yet AEW is WWElite as well since they're pushing ex WWE guys. I mean their two world champions are are ex WWE guys so they're WWElite just like TNA. Theres no difference between them.
> 
> They hate us The Wood, because we bring facts to the table with actual data to back up what we say and they have none thats why they get mad, because they can't refute what we say. All they do is throw temper tantrums and misrepresent you to try and win an argument.


You’re right. And when you consider the ad revenue split being unusually high, that reputation wrestling has with advertisers could actually bite them. Warner could be expecting big revenue for that key demo comparative to other shows, but after the 50% split, could find it shockingly low. It would have probably been smarter to take less money from advertising and more from TV rigjts



DOTL said:


> Unless you test that theory, it’s no less speculation than what the other user said. Saying that you have numbers and putting up random percentages doesn’t change the fact that your speculation is unproven in the real world. I can put up numbers too. 133, 109, 7. Therefore you’re wrong.
> 
> See. It means jack.


If you really don’t think that AEW would get slaughtered by Raw — a wrestling show that actually does wrestling-sized numbers (albeit bad by its own standards), I don’t know what to tell ya. Common sense just doesn’t fly on this board.



DOTL said:


> Here’s the thing. My argument isn’t that you’re wrong. My argument is that it’s hilarious that you call out people for speculation and then go on acting as if your speculation is a fact.
> 
> Please tell me, where did you get you numbers from?


No, your side said Ozell was speculating first. Not you, specifically, maybe (I can’t be bothered to go back and check), but you jumped in and latched onto this speculative thing, like it holds water.

There have been shows that have gone up against Raw in the past. Impact and Nitro. Both got absolutely slaughtered. Nitro won at first, because Bischoff got stars and it was fresh, but if you take Nitro doing a third of Raw’s audience (which it ended up doing) on a Wednesday, then moved it to Monday and put it against Raw, do you really think it isn’t going to lose viewers? Brand loyalty only goes so far, and that went for WCW too. Yes, most WCW fans just went away, but some of them were likely soured on wrestling in general from the experience (not anti-WWF fans, per se), and there were instances where fans did jump (unopposed Raws and when The Radicalz jumped). And I think, at least at the start, there was an audience split, which eventually grew. Nitro had, largely, its own fan-base though. But if you took a show where its relatively tiny fanbase are there because of WWE, which WCW’s wasn’t — do you really think their number is going to be unaffected. If their fanbase was GIANT they would still be affected, because I guarantee lots of those people watch Raw/are somewhat obsessed with it still. Never mind Vince picking things up and using his stars better which he does in a crunch.

Just asinine to argue differently. They do their number unopposed by giant wrestling. They go against giant wrestling they are going to get killed. Especially because the product, contrary to popular belief, isn’t that much different from WWE. And Raw would surely change to mess their shit up. There would be a young, hot champion on top, Brock would be underneath as a spectacle, and you’d have AEW making their digs, but WWE actually proving them fools by having better women, better tag teams and no bullshit. Vince might even convince USA to let them postpone the third hour of Raw, go even later with it, package it differently and do it either Tuesday or in a late night shot where they can be more edgy. Give fans a break, but also probably be the best thing in that slot. If he wanted to. The numbers wouldn’t even be close though. They’re not NOW.

Anyway, awful numbers for AEW this week. NXT below still, but they again seem to retain more of their audience when something else comes along. 84.5% of people stuck with AEW, whereas 97.1% with NXT. AEW takes a hit when something else is on. And NXT proves that it is not a necessity that you lose a significant portion of viewers. So the whole “Trump gave a speech” thing is kinda bullshit, because it didn’t hurt NXT much at all.

The AEW viewership seems to have hit a peak, but it is still in flux below that peak. It’s not anywhere near as stable as NXT seems to be so far.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Im shocked, I figured both would be below 600k considering the events last night.

I hope AEW figures out a small place to film from so they don't lose momentum. 3 months ago events like last night would crush them, now they hold strong.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Bunch of news shows on top. Not really surprised.


They’re usually on top and the drop for NXT was not nearly as severe. Had no clue Blank Ink Crew, The Real Housewives, Expedition Unknown, Expedition X, Sistas Series, Tournament of Champions, Married at First Sight and My 600lb Life were news shows.


----------



## imthegame19

Coronavirus or not. When your top draw has two minute pre tape interview. You are asking for a bad rating. Just like the sub 700 ratings they did on 11/27 with 2 minutes of Moxley and 12/18 when he wasn't on the show at all.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> They’re usually on top and the drop for NXT was not nearly as severe. Had no clue Blank Ink Crew, The Real Housewives, Expedition Unknown, Expedition X, Sistas Series, Tournament of Champions, Married at First Sight and My 600lb Life were news shows.


Ok AEW is garbage and Coronavirus coverage had nothing to do with its ratings drop.

Is that what you want me to say?


----------



## bdon

Of course NXT didn’t take a hit. Their core audience watched. AEW’s core audience watched. Those who left are new viewers or lapsed fans who just started getting into it.

Hence, the numbers have been up for most of 2020.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Coronavirus or not. When your top draw has two minute pre tape interview. You are asking for a bad rating. Just like the sub 700 ratings they did on 11/27 with 2 minutes of Moxley and 12/18 when he wasn't on the show at all.


Oh come on even if the show was all about Moxley the ratings would have been bad.

When he opened the show last week just after beating Jéricho, his segment didn't even draw 1M people. They would have won maybe a couple thousands with Moxley but Nothing big.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Oh come on even if the show was all about Moxley the ratings would have been bad.
> 
> When he opened the show last week just after beating Jéricho, his segment didn't even draw 1M people. They would have won maybe a couple thousands with Moxley but Nothing big.


imthegame19 makes a good point. It's not a coincidence that whenever he has been either entirely absent or has appeared for 2 minutes, the show does its worst viewership. 

The show would have declined from last week anyways, but would very likely have been above 800K.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

With all the coronavirus bullshit I expected lower numbers than this for both shows.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Coronavirus or not. When your top draw has two minute pre tape interview. You are asking for a bad rating. Just like the sub 700 ratings they did on 11/27 with 2 minutes of Moxley and 12/18 when he wasn't on the show at all.


this is factual

2 minute moxley appearance, what a dud.


last week was trash. there wasn't a reason to tune in this week.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> imthegame19 makes a good point. It's not a coincidence that whenever he has been either entirely absent or has appeared for 2 minutes, the show does its worst viewership.
> 
> *The show would have declined from last week anyways, but would very likely have been above 800K.*


That's what i said.

The show would have done a bit better but not by much.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Corona stuff doesnt help, but they've botched the momentum from the Mox win pretty handedly if you ask me.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> That's what i said.
> 
> The show would have done a bit better but not by much.


You said a couple of thousand viewers more. It would have been a lot more than that. At least somewhere between 50-100K seems realistic, given how many viewers NXT retained.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You said a couple of thousand viewers more. It would have been a lot more than that. At least somewhere between 50-100K seems realistic, given how many viewers NXT retained.


AEW Always lost more viewers than NXT when something "special" happen or air on other channels. This has been the case since the beginning of Dynamite.


----------



## validreasoning

RainmakerV2 said:


> The Corona stuff doesnt help, but they've botched the momentum from the Mox win pretty handedly if you ask me.


Both mainevents at Revolution were poorly booked I thought. Neither Moxley nor MJF had any real momentum coming off the ppv despite the wins.

Both feel colder now than before ppv.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> AEW Always lost more viewers than NXT when something "special" happen or air on other channels. This has been the case since the beginning of Dynamite.


Doing 50-100K more would still mean that they would have lost a greater percentage of their viewers than NXT did. Nothing I said would contradict that.


----------



## Pippen94

Coronavirus makes ratings meaningless


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> Im shocked, I figured both would be below 600k considering the events last night.
> 
> I hope AEW figures out a small place to film from so they don't lose momentum. 3 months ago events like last night would crush them, now they hold strong.


Don't Khan's own Dailys Place in Jacksonville?


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> Coronavirus makes ratings meaningless


It really does. It may sound like a lame excuse, but this kind of thing where the entire sporting landscape is being grinded to a halt is completely unprecedented. There were a lot of dominos falling one after another around the time these shows aired, making people want to keep themselves glued to the news and social media just to keep up to date with everything; it's impossible to get a proper gauge on anything, let alone wrestling, while something like this is going down.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> The Corona stuff doesnt help, but they've botched the momentum from the Mox win pretty handedly if you ask me.


EASILY. you wonder what they think when they do this dumb stuff.


----------



## patpat

validreasoning said:


> Both mainevents at Revolution were poorly booked I thought. Neither Moxley nor MJF had any real momentum coming off the ppv despite the wins.
> 
> Both feel colder now than before ppv.


Mjf doesnt feel like the main eventer and Jericho still feels like the champion and the top guy. Enough said


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> *Mjf doesnt feel like the main eventer *and Jericho still feels like the champion and the top guy. Enough said


Because he's not a main eventer yet.

He's not a draw and while his promo are great people are not tuning in to watch them.


----------



## bdon

I predicted Moxley would be a boring champion. It would be better if he’d stop acting like the challenger already.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I predicted Moxley would be a boring champion. It would be better if he’d stop acting like the challenger already.


How is he acting like a challenger? He got written off after his first appearance as champion.

Is he just supposed to ignore the attack?

give them a chance man, damn. It’s been 2 weeks.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> How is he acting like a challenger? He got written off after his first appearance as champion.
> 
> Is he just supposed to ignore the attack?
> 
> give them a chance man, damn. It’s been 2 weeks.


Keep in mind that the person you are replying to is still salty because his guy wasn't the one to dethrone Jericho and that another WWE guy got the title before his boy, even though his boy hasn't earned it because he does not draw.

However, I absolutely agree with the claim that they missed an opportunity with both the Moxley and MJF's momentum. MJF did not appear live last week coming off a big win and getting that exposure on TMZ, and Moxley, despite being their biggest draw, did not appear live this week. You cant misuse two of your top stars like that.

It's not the first time they've made head scratching decisions either. It's abundantly obvious how inexperienced they are at this stuff.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> Keep in mind that the person you are replying to is still salty because his guy wasn't the one to dethrone Jericho and that another WWE guy got the title before his boy, even though his boy hasn't earned it because he does not draw.
> 
> However, I absolutely agree with the claim that they missed an opportunity with both the Moxley and MJF's momentum. MJF did not appear live last week coming off a big win and getting that exposure on TMZ, and Moxley, despite being their biggest draw, did not appear live this week. You cant misuse two of your top stars like that.
> 
> It's not the first time they've made head scratching decisions either. It's abundantly obvious how inexperienced they are at this stuff.


Yea for sure. It’s dumb as hell.

Idk who booked last weeks show; even this week was flat. I remember a lot of us asking/expecting Moxley to be featured throughout Dynamite last week.

Idk. But its a proper rookie mistake. When Austin was running roughshot, he was featured throughout episodes of raw. To me it just seems like common sense. Instead we had the pleasure of watching QT Marshall and co.


----------



## bdon

And that’s acting like a champ? Being treated like one? Jericho didn’t lie. He really don’t need a belt to be the champion.

And AEW has booked it as so.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> Yea for sure. It’s dumb as hell.
> 
> Idk who booked last weeks show; even this week was flat. I remember a lot of us asking/expecting Moxley to be featured throughout Dynamite last week.
> 
> Idk. But its a proper rookie mistake. When Austin was running roughshot, he was featured throughout episodes of raw. To me it just seems like common sense. Instead we had the pleasure of watching QT Marshall and co.


I agree. I've been saying it since the start. Given their lack of stars, they should feature Moxley and Jericho in multiple segments each week. Having your top draw not appear live in 3 separate episodes is amateurish, although one of those may have been because he had prior commitments. But still, if it's within their control, they need to use him more.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> I agree. I've been saying it since the start. Given their lack of stars, they should feature Moxley and Jericho in multiple segments each week. Having your top draw not appear live in 3 separate episodes is amateurish, although one of those may have been because he had prior commitments. But still, if it's within their control, they need to use him more.


People talk about overexposure but they won’t get overexposure this way.
If anything, it’ll expose the fans to stuff they aren’t necessarily interested in.
I think we will be sub 700k next week I really do.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> People talk about overexposure but they won’t get overexposure this way.
> If anything, it’ll expose the fans to stuff they aren’t necessarily interested in.
> I think we will be sub 700k next week I really do.


There may not even be an episode next week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> There may not even be an episode next week.


True, but see their latest FB post in the coronavirus thread. They’ve moved it and have limited the audience.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Yea for sure. It’s dumb as hell.
> 
> Idk who booked last weeks show; even this week was flat. I remember a lot of us asking/expecting Moxley to be featured throughout Dynamite last week.
> 
> Idk. But its a proper rookie mistake. When Austin was running roughshot, he was featured throughout episodes of raw. To me it just seems like common sense. Instead we had the pleasure of watching QT Marshall and co.


I think in an effort to not do certain things the majority of hardcore wrestling fans say they hate about WWE, they've sometimes veered too far the other way. Think about it

Not enough focus on tag teams in WWE, a big focus on tag matches on AEW. 

Too many squashes in WWE, rarely any squashesin AEW even if it'd make sense. 

Too many DQs in WWE, pretty much impossible to get DQ'd in AEW. 

Too much talking in WWE, not enough talking in AEW

Complaints of "over exposing stars" in WWE, not exposing their stars enough in AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

I think both wwe & aew won't be running shows anytime soon. Nxt probably missed their chance to secure a rare ratings win this week with corana crisis going on.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Ok AEW is garbage and Coronavirus coverage had nothing to do with its ratings drop.
> 
> Is that what you want me to say?


No. Stop making stuff up. Of course the Coronavirus coverage boosted news programs. But it didn't have to knock about the wrestling as much as it did. See NXT. AEW took a much greater hit. It's fans either gave more of a shit about watching the news for some reason, but it's more likely compounded by other reasons. NXT did not take the hit that AEW did. You have to ask yourself why. 



bdon said:


> Of course NXT didn’t take a hit. Their core audience watched. AEW’s core audience watched. Those who left are new viewers or lapsed fans who just started getting into it.
> 
> Hence, the numbers have been up for most of 2020.


This always happens when something interesting happens though. They're not fans you can bank on. 



validreasoning said:


> Both mainevents at Revolution were poorly booked I thought. Neither Moxley nor MJF had any real momentum coming off the ppv despite the wins.
> 
> Both feel colder now than before ppv.


I think that's because there aren't too many great finish guys in the business anymore. And no one really knows how to thread angles through matches. They just kind of set the match out, it's back-and-forth, such and such goes over in such and such a time, pinfall -- finisher. Or ring shot. Or roll-up. No one really knows how to milk a match for genuine emotion. They're just blocked out. And the attempt in Jericho/Moxley didn't make any sense and was pretty piss-poor. 



optikk sucks said:


> How is he acting like a challenger? He got written off after his first appearance as champion.
> 
> Is he just supposed to ignore the attack?
> 
> give them a chance man, damn. It’s been 2 weeks.


Not finishing a bad story is not a good excuse for starting a bad story.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No. Stop making stuff up. Of course the Coronavirus coverage boosted news programs. But it didn't have to knock about the wrestling as much as it did. See NXT. AEW took a much greater hit. It's fans either gave more of a shit about watching the news for some reason, but it's more likely compounded by other reasons. NXT did not take the hit that AEW did. You have to ask yourself why.
> 
> 
> 
> This always happens when something interesting happens though. They're not fans you can bank on.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's because there aren't too many great finish guys in the business anymore. And no one really knows how to thread angles through matches. They just kind of set the match out, it's back-and-forth, such and such goes over in such and such a time, pinfall -- finisher. Or ring shot. Or roll-up. No one really knows how to milk a match for genuine emotion. They're just blocked out. And the attempt in Jericho/Moxley didn't make any sense and was pretty piss-poor.
> 
> 
> 
> Not finishing a bad story is not a good excuse for starting a bad story.


Last night wasn't business as usual - world is facing a major crisis. Shouldn't be reading anything in results. Heck, in light of upheaval around this event may have been last chance nxt had to score a ratings win.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Because he's not a main eventer yet.
> 
> He's not a draw and while his promo are great people are not tuning in to watch them.


The thing with mjf Is he is so fucking young, there is really no reason to put these unreasonable expectations on him, and I feel a lot of people do that. Like when mjf has a bad match people freak out, dude is 23! Chill 
Thats why aew need a midcard belt all those guys could learn their craft as champ


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> And that’s acting like a champ? Being treated like one? Jericho didn’t lie. He really don’t need a belt to be the champion.
> 
> And AEW has booked it as so.


People I will QUOTE cena. The belt is a prop, it doesnt make you a champion. 
The belt is fucking fake! Wrestling isnt real, it's not a sport this belt means nothing. What matters is the guy wearing it 
Jericho walk talk act, look at others acts towards others and refers to himself as Le champion. That fucking crowd still sees him as The man. He is charismatic , he is strong, he is the leader of the inner circle he is the alpha. And forever the aew belt will be attached to him, its almost synonymous with Jericho. 
To take that feeling off, you either need a AJ styles-like who has that "super hero" vibe and who is going to take the belt and deliver classics after classic in intense feuds. Or someone like...jericho who cut crazy promos.
Its funny tho to see people here ask for 12 months to judge, Homie. Some things take one look to see where its going. When that guy won the belt in an underwhelming fashion, after an underwhelming and "not intense at all" feud then decided to cut that fucking "I did it for everyone and you all are champs" promo the red flags are out. A crowd a public wont give you much chances as the champ because Jericho set the standards high very high too high. That's 2 shitty promos now, and his shtick are promos, not in ring stuffs. If he was like the bright point of the show, if like whatever he did was the best 2 minutes of the show and overshadowed everything else I would agree with you and poirn fingers at aew. But it's not, both promos were shit, and he is getting overshadowed by Jericho. 
I wont go all drama and say his reign is bad, it barely started, but its already not making people dream of the sky.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Last night wasn't business as usual - world is facing a major crisis. Shouldn't be reading anything in results. Heck, in light of upheaval around this event may have been last chance nxt had to score a ratings win.


Let’s see:

Black Ink Crew got 0.32 in the key demo last week, with 707k viewers. This week it got a 0.34 in the key demo, with 701k viewers. Hang on...it went up in the key demo?

Married at First Sight got a 0.29 in the key demo last week. This week a 0.28. Wow, what a drop! 1.11 million viewers last week, to 1.04 million. An estimated 70k viewers for a horrendous drop of 6%. 

Let’s try another. Expedition Unknown got a 0.28 in the demo with 1.23 million viewers this week. Last week, 1.44 million viewers. Wow, can’t wait to see that demo drop. It got a 0.27. Hang on...it went up?

It can’t be that COVID-19 excuse is just bullshit, can it? Yes, more people watched the news. But people also have phones, DVRs and the internet. Most shows were not effected. Some even went up. People watched what they usually watched. AEW’s drop is largely because of AEW, for whatever reason.



patpat said:


> The thing with mjf Is he is so fucking young, there is really no reason to put these unreasonable expectations on him, and I feel a lot of people do that. Like when mjf has a bad match people freak out, dude is 23! Chill
> Thats why aew need a midcard belt all those guys could learn their craft as champ


MJF does not need a belt until he is the real champion. Belts don’t add meaning the wrestler won’t. MJF is meaningful without one. Focus on making one belt mean something as the symbol of your “sport.” Then he and it both matter.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> No. Stop making stuff up. Of course the Coronavirus coverage boosted news programs. But it didn't have to knock about the wrestling as much as it did. See NXT. AEW took a much greater hit. It's fans either gave more of a shit about watching the news for some reason, but it's more likely compounded by other reasons. NXT did not take the hit that AEW did. You have to ask yourself why.


I thought I already said why. It’s because AEW is garbage and NXT is wonderful. NXT already having a low ceiling has nothing to do with it. AEW losing some of its younger demo to Coronavirus coverage on a show that didn’t have much in way of top stars had nothing to do with it.

AEW completely sucks compared to NXT despite beating NXT on a day both took a big hit. This is what you want me to say. Right?


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> I thought I already said why. It’s because AEW is garbage and NXT is wonderful. NXT already having a low ceiling has nothing to do with it. AEW losing some of its younger demo to Coronavirus coverage had nothing to do with it.
> 
> AEW completely sucks compared to NXT despite beating NXT on a day both took a big hit. This is what you want me to say. Right?


You are flat-out trolling now. I think you should stop.

By the way, AEW didn’t lose their demo to the COVID-19 coverage. I pointed out how many shows did as well or better. That’s a Meltzer Myth to make himself and AEW fans feel better about a large drop this week.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You are flat-out trolling now. I think you should stop.
> 
> By the way, AEW didn’t lose their demo to the COVID-19 coverage. I pointed out how many shows did as well or better. That’s a Meltzer Myth to make himself and AEW fans feel better about a large drop this week.


So why did AEW and NXT both drop then? Why didn’t NXT maintain its level if its just show quality we’re talking about?

The idea that a show like black ink crew, a show with a non-existent “casual” fan base is comparable with a live show probably pulling a sizable casual audience is ridiculous. No one watching a reality show is going to change the channel in the middle of it like they’d do for wrestling or other live events.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> So why did AEW and NXT both drop then? Why didn’t NXT maintain its level if its just show quality we’re talking about.


They basically fucking did. I think they dropped like 3% or something. I put up the number up there. Maybe it was closer to 6%? AEW was more like 15%. They’re not the same drop.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> They basically fucking did. I think they dropped like 3% or something. I put up the number up there. Maybe it was closer to 6%? AEW was more like 15%. They’re not the same drop.


It dropped enough for it to still be lower than AEW. But it didn’t have to drop at all if this was just about quality and not current events. Instead of hitting around 700k like usual, it sucked worse than normal.

And you’re Australian, so you might not know this about the American tv audience, but the demo that watches Black Ink Crew or Bride Wars or whatever the heck wasn’t effected by news coverage isn’t the same as people who’d change the channel in the middle of a live event.

The reality show audience has no casual viewer relative to a wrestling show.But I know you don’t think casuals watch AEW, despite these volatility in their ratings suggesting otherwise.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> It dropped enough for it to still be lower than AEW. But it didn’t have to drop at all if this was just about quality and not current events. Instead of hitting around 700k like usual, it sucked worse than normal.
> 
> And you’re Australian, so you might not know this about the American tv audience, but the demo that watches Black Ink Crew or Bride Wars or whatever the heck wasn’t effected by news coverage isn’t the same as people who’d change the channel in the middle of a live event.
> 
> The reality show audience has no casual viewer relative to a wrestling show.But I know you don’t think casuals watch AEW, despite these volatility in their ratings suggesting otherwise.


This is just a load of bullshit, to put it bluntly. It dropped by what I said it dropped by. AEW dropped by a much, much larger percentage. Call it a day on acting like they’re the same thing. They’re not and you know it. There are others saying the same thing as me — NXT dropped much less than AEW.

Your subtle xenophobia aside, you’re just making up whatever crap you want. Now some genres are expected to be effected and others aren’t? I guess NXT must be in the same genre with all those shows that held up their audience, whereas AEW is in a genre...all on its own?

Nice try. There are reality shows, travel shows and wrestling shows that weren’t effected. Apparently only AEW fans watch the news.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The idea that this drop was affected by the coronavirus doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that most other programs were seemingly unaffected.

Also, of course AEW's title doesn't mean anything. I've been saying ever since they introduced the title that regardless of how much better it looks than the WWE title, it will never be a meaningful title. It will only mean something if/when they overtake WWE. Right now, for better or worse, the WWE title is still the top title in wrestling, and the only title in the industry that can add to one's legacy.

So it's not about putting the title on someone for their own benefit, it's about putting the title on someone who will benefit the company. Jericho and Moxley were the first two champions for obvious reasons. Who cares if MJF is 23? He's already much better than Kenny Omega, Hangman Page, Pac, or anyone else who could realistically win it. But I can see why patpat is playing the age card with him.


----------



## DOTL

nope. i'm not going down this rabbit hole again.



AEWMoxley said:


> The idea that this drop was affected by the coronavirus doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that most other programs were seemingly unaffected.


But that isn't true. Not every show had content going into the 9pm hour, which is when the pres made his address. And among the top rated shows, all saw above average viewership in the demo. Sports Center was number 2 for crying out loud. Does that not scream potential NBA hiatus to you guys?

My guess is that AEW saw a drop that was compounded by a lack of Mox, for sure, but would have seen an 800k+ rating on any other week.


----------



## K4L318

an Aussie thinks he understands US TV ratings during pandemic briefings, hour 1 alone was 18-49M finding out what was happening to a basketball player on ESPN while hour 2 was 

listening to steps from the White House.


----------



## DOTL

K4L318 said:


> an Aussie thinks he understands US TV ratings during pandemic briefings, hour 1 alone was 18-49M finding out what was happening to a basketball player on ESPN while hour 2 was
> 
> listening to steps from the White House.


Careful. The idea that a person from a country not being privy to the viewing habits of another is xanafobics.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> nope. i'm not going down this rabbit hole again.
> 
> 
> 
> But that isn't true. Not every show had content going into the 9pm hour, which is when the pres made his address. And among the top rated shows, all saw above average viewership in the demo. Sports Center was number 2 for crying out loud. Does that not scream potential NBA hiatus to you guys?
> 
> My guess is that AEW saw a drop that was compounded by a lack of Mox, for sure, but would have seen an 800k+ rating on any other week.


But what exactly on that show would have kept people from changing the channel other than the main event? Seemed like a bunch of meaningless matches. Even when you had an interesting character like MJF, he was put in a nothing match with a bunch of jobbers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The show did fall flat. That's a simple fact. The World Champion (aka the only proven draw of AEW) had a 2 minute interview. However, to argue that COVID-19 did not have an effect on the ratings is pretty dumb.

There is a multitude of reasons why AEW flopped this week.


----------



## patpat

People are really going to say that rating is due to no Moxley? GTFOH 
There is a fucking pandemic with a virus we know nothing about and the whole world is on notice. 
And I doubt filling the whole show with Moxley would have changed SHIT. Like @rbrightfully reminded people, the dude opened the fallout show of the ppv where he became champion at 905k viewers or something like that, not even a million so let's drop the act.
The quality of this show had nothing to do with ratings 
Those numbers are irrelevant because clearly freaking corona is going to take over


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> People are really going to say that rating is due to no Moxley? GTFOH
> There is a fucking pandemic with a virus we know nothing about and the whole world is on notice.
> And I doubt filling the whole show with Moxley would have changed SHIT. Like @rbrightfully reminded people, the dude opened the fallout show of the ppv where he became champion at 905k viewers or something like that, not even a million so let's drop the act.
> The quality of this show had nothing to do with ratings
> Those numbers are irrelevant because clearly freaking corona is going to take over


so you're thinking that _everyone_ didn't watch shared the SAME reason for not watching? 

come on dawg. you're smarter than that


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

you're all arguing like idiots as far as i'm concerned. you're all right in some ways and in other ways, you're all wrong.


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> so you're thinking that _everyone_ didn't watch shared the SAME reason for not watching?
> 
> come on dawg. you're smarter than that


No but the major reason I would say with confidence that 95% of the people didnt watch because there is a freaking pandemic of a virus going all over the world. Dawg there is legit one of the greatest threat to public health in decades, a worldwide phenomenon I dont even think one should think twice before figuring what went wrong with the ratings


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> so you're thinking that _everyone_ didn't watch shared the SAME reason for not watching?
> 
> come on dawg. you're smarter than that


patpat is a fine poster and a smart guy, but his saltiness towards Moxley being the champ has made him too emotional and irrational in the last couple of weeks. Hopefully he can get over it at some point, so he can have worthwhile conversations again.

Of course their biggest draw missing had a big impact. No one could possibly deny that. Last week they had much stiffer competition against a wrestling show that had 2 cage matches, and Dynamite had its highest viewership in a month. It's also not a coincidence that the other two times where he either did not appear live or only appeared for under 2 minutes, the episodes did around 650K.

patpat realizes this, but he is letting his inner mark get the better of him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> No but the major reason I would say with confidence that 95% of the people didnt watch because there is a freaking pandemic of a virus going all over the world. Dawg there is legit one of the greatest threat to public health in decades, a worldwide phenomenon I dont even think one should think twice before figuring what went wrong with the ratings


Then why are people still watching other shows?


----------



## patpat

AEWMoxley said:


> patpat is a fine poster and a smart guy, but his saltiness towards Moxley being the champ has made him too emotional and irrational in the last couple of weeks. Hopefully he can get over it at some point, so he can have worthwhile conversations again.
> 
> Of course their biggest draw missing had a big impact. No one could possibly deny that. Last week they had much stiffer competition against a wrestling show that had 2 cage matches, and Dynamite had its highest viewership in a month. It's also not a coincidence that the other two times where he either did not appear live or only appeared for under 2 minutes, the episodes did around 650K.
> 
> patpat realizes this, but he is letting his inner mark get the better of him.


Dawg I barely ever watches wrestling anymore. I dont care, I am just saying when there is a fucking worldwide pandemic its stupid to even imply the rating crashed because of a wrestler being off of the show. I think it's fair and smarter to say that the biggest threat to public health running rampant is a better and more rational explanation. 
As for me being irrational and emotional, opinions are like fingers everyone got one.
No I am not irrational or over emotional just because I critize your fave pal, this isnt how it works.
But I still think anyone who think corona wasnt the biggest/major reason for the ratings is delusional. 
Have a nice day


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> Then why are people still watching other shows?


Check the chart and see what are the biggest rated show this week. Self explanatory.
As for things like desperate housewives still drawing their usual ratings, it's simple. They have a base of viewers and a stability that aew doesnt have. The heavy fluctuations in aew ratings are pretty clear ans talks for themselves. Aew isnt solidified enough and strong enough as a tv show so things like that send them into oblivion, we have seen the exact same effect with things like the world series, or even Thanksgiving.


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> Dawg I barely ever watches wrestling anymore. I dont care, I am just saying when there is a fucking worldwide pandemic its stupid to even imply the rating crashed because of a wrestler being off of the show. I think it's fair and smarter to say that the biggest threat to public health running rampant is a better and more rational explanation.
> As for me being irrational and emotional, opinions are like fingers everyone got one.
> No I am not irrational or over emotional just because I critize your fave pal, this isnt how it works.
> But I still think anyone who think corona wasnt the biggest/major reason for the ratings is delusional.
> Have a nice day


You are free to criticize him and to think that he is garbage. That's a perfectly valid opinion and I respect it. However, numbers are not opinion.

Most shows weren't impacted much by the coronavirus. Some even increased in viewership this week.


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> But what exactly on that show would have kept people from changing the channel other than the main event? Seemed like a bunch of meaningless matches. Even when you had an interesting character like MJF, he was put in a nothing match with a bunch of jobbers.


No one is saying it was must-see television. But it definitely wasn't bad enough to lose this many people if it were a normal week, which this week wasn't.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> Check the chart and see what are the biggest rated show this week. Self explanatory.
> As for things like desperate housewives still drawing their usual ratings, it's simple. They have a base of viewers and a stability that aew doesnt have. The heavy fluctuations in aew ratings are pretty clear ans talks for themselves. Aew isnt solidified enough and strong enough as a tv show so things like that send them into oblivion, we have seen the exact same effect with things like the world series, or even Thanksgiving.


So what you’re basically saying is AEW haven’t persuaded their viewers to watch the show lol.

so in other words, the show was trash.


----------



## DOTL

optikk sucks said:


> Then why are people still watching other shows?


Are they? not every show on the chart aired when the president gave his address.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> No one is saying it was must-see television. But it definitely wasn't bad enough to lose this many people if it were a normal week, which this week wasn't.


Shows like Lego Masters, The Masked Singer, Nancy Drew, Real Housewives, all increased in viewership. Riverdale, My 600 lb Life, and Survivor all maintained.

I'm not seeing any shows that were greatly impacted, other than Dynamite.


----------



## patpat

AEWMoxley said:


> You are free to criticize him and to think that he is garbage. That's a perfectly valid opinion and I respect it. However, numbers are not opinion.
> 
> Most shows weren't impacted much by the coronavirus. Some even increased in viewership this week.


Dude I dont think your favorite wrestler is garbage neither do I care, in fact I dont think anybody here ever said it. You are just overreacting to criticism. so if that's the reason you went on some dumb psychoanalysis on my "emotional state" because a wrestler won a fake belt then that's something to laugh about . I pointed out that at its basis it's still wrestling and not that serious :lmao: 
As for the numbers we have enough things to prove that aew is much more easily impacted by events than most established shows. We have seen this scenario before with less impactful events. 
But whatever ?‍♀


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> So what you’re basically saying is AEW haven’t persuaded their viewers to watch the show lol.
> 
> so in other words, the show was trash.


.....you are smarter than that at least I hope because if you couldnt understand what I said then that's sad.
They have a less stable base, they are young and their ratings are more likely to fluctuate depending on external events. What I meant is that aew didnt have a strong enough fanbase of viewers to be able to maintain their viewership eith these kind of events,like the most established shows will do. 
This was a general statement about aew as a tv show overall not just this week's show
If you want to have a proper conversation with people you got to at least make an effort to understand what they say to bring the appropriate counter arguments.


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> Shows like Lego Masters, The Masked Singer, Nancy Drew, Real Housewives, all increased in viewership. Riverdale, My 600 lb Life, and Survivor all maintained.
> 
> I'm not seeing any shows that were greatly impacted, other than Dynamite.


and what did most those shows have in common?


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> This is just a load of bullshit, to put it bluntly. It dropped by what I said it dropped by. AEW dropped by a much, much larger percentage. Call it a day on acting like they’re the same thing. They’re not and you know it. There are others saying the same thing as me — NXT dropped much less than AEW.
> 
> Your subtle xenophobia aside, you’re just making up whatever crap you want. Now some genres are expected to be effected and others aren’t? I guess NXT must be in the same genre with all those shows that held up their audience, whereas AEW is in a genre...all on its own?
> 
> Nice try. There are reality shows, travel shows and wrestling shows that weren’t effected. Apparently only AEW fans watch the news.


AEW’s core fanbase is apparently larger, because it still won, dude. And this shows that casuals were tuning in.

You trying to play this as some kind of loss is stupid.


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> it's still wrestling and not that serious


I'm glad you are finally starting to come around.



> As for the numbers we have enough things to prove that aew is much more easily impacted by events than most established shows. We have seen this scenario before with less impactful events.
> But whatever ?‍♀


Right, but I'm not seeing how any of this was an impactful event last night based on the ratings. Everyone is aware of what's happening with the coronavirus, but based on the viewership of virtually every other show, there was no negative impact. I could understand if other shows at least decreased slightly from the previous week, but almost all of them either increased or maintained.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> .....you are smarter than that at least I hope because if you couldnt understand what I said then that's sad.
> They have a less stable base, they are young and their ratings are more likely to fluctuate depending on external events. What I meant is that aew didnt have a strong enough fanbase of viewers to be able to maintain their viewership eith these kind of events,like the most established shows will do.
> This was a general statement about aew as a tv show overall not just this week's show
> If you want to have a proper conversation with people you got to at least make an effort to understand what they say to bring the appropriate counter arguments.


I’m not getting into this anyway; like I said, there are a multitude of reasons why people did not watch dynamite.
You’re all arguing like you’re right. When actually you’re all just coming off dumb

Wait till the quarterly hour ratings.


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> I’m not getting into this anyway; like I said, there are a multitude of reasons why people did not watch dynamite.
> You’re all arguing like you’re right. When actually you’re all just coming off dumb
> 
> Wait till the quarterly hour ratings.


I think the least fit person to call anyone dumb here is you because you were unable to understand a simple point I made. No offense, but when you want to come out and explain how people comes off dumb at least be able to understand what they are saying? 
Dont know


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> and what did most those shows have in common?


They know how to consistently appeal to the audience that they are targeting.


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> They know how to consistently appeal to the demographic that they are targeting.


and most of them didn't air when the president was on. Not to mention Nancy Drew, one of the few shows that did air then, has a way below average rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> I think the least fit person to call anyone dumb here is you because you were unable to understand a simple point I made. No offense, but when you want to come out and explain how people comes off dumb at least be able to understand what they are saying?
> Dont know


Lol I’m one of the only objective people here, @bdon @AEWMoxley included.

there are others but they’re not relevant for this discussion.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Lol I’m one of the only objective people here, @bdon @AEWMoxley included.
> 
> there are others but they’re not relevant for this discussion.


How or why am I being brought up?


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> Lol I’m one of the only objective people here, @bdon @AEWMoxley included.
> 
> there are others but they’re not relevant for this discussion.


I think we should agree to disagree because it would be sad to have a stupid beef over something like that.
We both have our views I can see your point, I respectfully disagree. 
Still respect your perspective


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> and most of them didn't air when the president was on. Not to mention Nancy Drew, one of the few shows that did air then, has a way below average rating.


SEAL Team increased by 400K in the 9PM time slot. Lego Masters increased by 500K.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> How or why am I being brought up?


You’re objective, and I saw you like my post so I thought you’d be here discussing your opinion lol


----------



## DOTL

AEWMoxley said:


> SEAL Team increased by 400K in the 9PM time slot. Lego Masters increased by 500K.


*NETWORK FINALS: As expected, there were multiple news-driven adjustments in final numbers. On CBS, SURVIVOR gained 0.1 and SEAL TEAM was down the same. On NBC, the CHICAGO FIRE and CHICAGO PD reruns both lost 0.1. FOX’s LEGO MASTERS dropped 0.1.*

both those shows lost some in the demo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DOTL said:


> *NETWORK FINALS: As expected, there were multiple news-driven adjustments in final numbers. On CBS, SURVIVOR gained 0.1 and SEAL TEAM was down the same. On NBC, the CHICAGO FIRE and CHICAGO PD reruns both lost 0.1. FOX’s LEGO MASTERS dropped 0.1.*


That doesn't change the fact that they gained big numbers.


----------



## bdon

The facts are these:

This show fucking sucked.
This show didn’t have any star power a week after they had a best of DARK Roster showcase as a fallout show. 
Moxley failed to captivate the audience with a promo that broke from his “fuck everyone, I’ll do what I want, when I want” attitude and pandered to the crowd like a 60s babyface.
The ratings dropped due to Coronavirus fallout in the NBA and Presidential address. 
The ratings dropped so much, because CASUAL fans have been tuning in unlike NXT, and they chose not to watch a shitty card after the previous weeks shitty card along with more pressing matters in the world.

How can anyone act like these are not all true?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> The ratings dropped so much, because CASUAL fans have been tuning


This is it right here. I'm glad finally someone was able to pinpoint why AEW can experience such dramatic swings and why they are such a fragile promotion. They have casuals tuning in, and those casuals are watching because of Moxley and Jericho. They are heavily dependent on two guys. We don't know the effect Jericho's absence would have because he's been on every episode, but we do know the show takes a huge hit when Moxley isn't there live.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> The facts are these:
> 
> This show fucking sucked.
> This show didn’t have any star power a week after they had a best of DARK Roster showcase as a fallout show.
> Moxley failed to captivate the audience with a promo that broke from his “fuck everyone, I’ll do what I want, when I want” attitude and pandered to the crowd like a 60s babyface.
> The ratings dropped due to Coronavirus fallout in the NBA and Presidential address.
> The ratings dropped so much, because CASUAL fans have been tuning in unlike NXT, and they chose not to watch a shitty card after the previous weeks shitty card along with more pressing matters in the world.
> 
> How can anyone act like these are not all true?


Straight facts. 
While aew has had shows that sucked and drew good enough before. Now they do feel like the structure isnt there,the show lacks a backbone now. 
The only good thing they sre doing is keeping Jericho strong enough


----------



## Britz94xD

1.4 million people watched the debut show because they were expecting CM Punk, on top of Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega etc.

If the 2011 Punk was in AEW. They would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and WWE would've been shook. AEW had to work a little harder without Punk but they are doing a great job overall.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Britz94xD said:


> 1.4 million people watched the debut show because they were expecting CM Punk, on top of Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega etc.
> 
> If the 2011 Punk was in AEW. They would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and WWE would've been shook. AEW had to work a little harder without Punk but they are doing a great job overall.


The truest statement that Ive read in weeks on this forum.


----------



## RainmakerV2

I dunno man..I've just never seen IT with Moxley. He comes off goofy and tryhardy to me and his in ring stuff is nothing special. Just doesn't scream STAR for me and he never has. It doesnt surprise me in the least that Jericho still feels like a bigger deal even without the belt.


----------



## Ozell Gray

So they lost even more viewers as I said they would. Their 800-900,000 stagnant viewership was never sustainable, because they weren't growing and they're declining attendance isn't good its bad. The hype wasn't sustainable long term and you're seeing the side effects of it. Keep in mind also they keep going after WWE like Matt Hardy which isn't helping them either. They've lost 50% of their viewers and their attendance keeps going down.


----------



## validreasoning

Britz94xD said:


> 1.4 million people watched the debut show because they were expecting CM Punk, on top of Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega etc.
> 
> If the 2011 Punk was in AEW. They would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and WWE would've been shook. AEW had to work a little harder without Punk but they are doing a great job overall.


People watched debut because it was the first prime time pro wrestling show on TNT in nearly 19 years. Some might have watched for Punk but the vast majority watched because it was the biggest pro wrestling event outside WWE in nigh on 2 decades in many fans eyes.

You are giving Punk a little too much credit. He peaked in popularity summer of 2011 but he was never a TV ratings or attendance difference maker. His biggest effect was in merch sales and occasionally on ppv. And of course that was nearly a decade ago. Jeff Hardy had effect on viewers, attendance, ppv sales and merch in WWE in 2008-09 but little to no effect on any of those things since he returned in 2017.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> an Aussie thinks he understands US TV ratings during pandemic briefings, hour 1 alone was 18-49M finding out what was happening to a basketball player on ESPN while hour 2 was
> 
> listening to steps from the White House.


Believe it or not, other countries use Arabic numbers. ;-) 

We also study television. You are trying a weird ad hominem to suggest that someone outside the United States can’t possibly understand how something so publicized from the loudest nation on Earth works.

Also weirdly implicit in this post is the idea that Americans inherently understand American viewing habits. That’s bizarre. But I may not be misreading you, you’re clearly speaking American. 

By the way, it’s a pandemic. The whole world knows about this thing. It’s not just you. 



DOTL said:


> Careful. The idea that a person from a country not being privy to the viewing habits of another is xanafobics.


Yeah, dismissing someone because of their cultural background kind of is the very definition. 



patpat said:


> No but the major reason I would say with confidence that 95% of the people didnt watch because there is a freaking pandemic of a virus going all over the world. Dawg there is legit one of the greatest threat to public health in decades, a worldwide phenomenon *I dont even think one should think twice before figuring what went wrong with the ratings*


Is that some of that alleged innate ability to analyze US TV ratings? Don’t even think about the data?



patpat said:


> Check the chart and see what are the biggest rated show this week. Self explanatory.
> As for things like desperate housewives still drawing their usual ratings, it's simple. They have a base of viewers and a stability that aew doesnt have. The heavy fluctuations in aew ratings are pretty clear ans talks for themselves. Aew isnt solidified enough and strong enough as a tv show so things like that send them into oblivion, we have seen the exact same effect with things like the world series, or even Thanksgiving.


Haha, 



DOTL said:


> No one is saying it was must-see television. But it definitely wasn't bad enough to lose this many people if it were a normal week, which this week wasn't.


And yet, it did. Also, given how ratings work, it is probably the sour taste from last week and recent developments that are turning people off. You shouldn’t judge a live wrestling show’s live ratings solely based on what happens when people see it, other than maybe drops and rises. It’s going to mainly be the interest going im



DOTL said:


> and what did most those shows have in common?


They are good at what they set out to 



bdon said:


> AEW’s core fanbase is apparently larger, because it still won, dude. And this shows that casuals were tuning in.
> 
> You trying to play this as some kind of loss is stupid.


NXT retained its fans. Stability is a good thing. 

I don’t know how you get this casuals thing. Casuals watched what they usually watched. News shows drew “casuals” who don’t normally watch anything else. AEW lost fans. 



DOTL said:


> *NETWORK FINALS: As expected, there were multiple news-driven adjustments in final numbers.  On CBS, SURVIVOR gained 0.1 and SEAL TEAM was down the same. On NBC, the CHICAGO FIRE and CHICAGO PD reruns both lost 0.1. FOX’s LEGO MASTERS dropped 0.1.*
> 
> both those shows lost some in the demo.


Those are tiny drops. Those people probably had COVID-19 or got invited out to dinner. AEW lost out much more rhanxthat



bdon said:


> The facts are these:
> 
> This show fucking sucked.
> This show didn’t have any star power a week after they had a best of DARK Roster showcase as a fallout show.
> Moxley failed to captivate the audience with a promo that broke from his “fuck everyone, I’ll do what I want, when I want” attitude and pandered to the crowd like a 60s babyface.
> The ratings dropped due to Coronavirus fallout in the NBA and Presidential address.
> The ratings dropped so much, because CASUAL fans have been tuning in unlike NXT, and they chose not to watch a shitty card after the previous weeks shitty card along with more pressing matters in the world.
> 
> How can anyone act like these are not all true?


You start off really good, but then just got to “well, that means they were casuals.” Nah, not buying that. Also like the way you are trying to say the show objectively sucked. No argument from me there, but it’s nice to see some apologists (albeit the more floppy ones) coming around. 



RainmakerV2 said:


> I dunno man..I've just never seen IT with Moxley. He comes off goofy and tryhardy to me and his in ring stuff is nothing special. Just doesn't scream STAR for me and he never has. It doesnt surprise me in the least that Jericho still feels like a bigger deal even without the belt.


I’m the same. Don’t hate the guy or anything, but lost interest around 2016 and now I can’t help but see the guy trying to be an Attitude era star.

Good luck to him and all. And his bank account and personal life seem to be going well. But I don’t have Moxpox.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> an Aussie thinks he understands US TV ratings during pandemic briefings, hour 1 alone was 18-49M finding out what was happening to a basketball player on ESPN while hour 2 was
> 
> listening to steps from the White House.


Believe it or not, other countries use Arabic numbers. ;-) 

We also study television. You are trying a weird ad hominem to suggest that someone outside the United States can’t possibly understand how something so publicized from the loudest nation on Earth works.

Also weirdly implicit in this post is the idea that Americans inherently understand American viewing habits. That’s bizarre. But I may not be misreading you, you’re clearly speaking American. 

By the way, it’s a pandemic. The whole world knows about this thing. It’s not just you. 



DOTL said:


> Careful. The idea that a person from a country not being privy to the viewing habits of another is xanafobics.


Yeah, dismissing someone because of their cultural background kind of is the very definition. 



patpat said:


> No but the major reason I would say with confidence that 95% of the people didnt watch because there is a freaking pandemic of a virus going all over the world. Dawg there is legit one of the greatest threat to public health in decades, a worldwide phenomenon *I dont even think one should think twice before figuring what went wrong with the ratings*


Is that some of that alleged innate ability to analyze US TV ratings? Don’t even think about the data?



patpat said:


> Check the chart and see what are the biggest rated show this week. Self explanatory.
> As for things like desperate housewives still drawing their usual ratings, it's simple. They have a base of viewers and a stability that aew doesnt have. The heavy fluctuations in aew ratings are pretty clear ans talks for themselves. Aew isnt solidified enough and strong enough as a tv show so things like that send them into oblivion, we have seen the exact same effect with things like the world series, or even Thanksgiving.


Haha, 



DOTL said:


> No one is saying it was must-see television. But it definitely wasn't bad enough to lose this many people if it were a normal week, which this week wasn't.


And yet, it did. Also, given how ratings work, it is probably the sour taste from last week and recent developments that are turning people off. You shouldn’t judge a live wrestling show’s live ratings solely based on what happens when people see it, other than maybe drops and rises. It’s going to mainly be the interest going im



DOTL said:


> and what did most those shows have in common?


They are good at what they set out to 



bdon said:


> AEW’s core fanbase is apparently larger, because it still won, dude. And this shows that casuals were tuning in.
> 
> You trying to play this as some kind of loss is stupid.


NXT retained its fans. Stability is a good thing. 

I don’t know how you get this casuals thing. Casuals watched what they usually watched. News shows drew “casuals” who don’t normally watch anything else. AEW lost fans. 



DOTL said:


> *NETWORK FINALS: As expected, there were multiple news-driven adjustments in final numbers. On CBS, SURVIVOR gained 0.1 and SEAL TEAM was down the same. On NBC, the CHICAGO FIRE and CHICAGO PD reruns both lost 0.1. FOX’s LEGO MASTERS dropped 0.1.*
> 
> both those shows lost some in the demo.


Those are tiny drops. Those people probably had COVID-19 or got invited out to dinner. AEW lost out much more rhanxthat



bdon said:


> The facts are these:
> 
> This show fucking sucked.
> This show didn’t have any star power a week after they had a best of DARK Roster showcase as a fallout show.
> Moxley failed to captivate the audience with a promo that broke from his “fuck everyone, I’ll do what I want, when I want” attitude and pandered to the crowd like a 60s babyface.
> The ratings dropped due to Coronavirus fallout in the NBA and Presidential address.
> The ratings dropped so much, because CASUAL fans have been tuning in unlike NXT, and they chose not to watch a shitty card after the previous weeks shitty card along with more pressing matters in the world.
> 
> How can anyone act like these are not all true?


You start off really good, but then just got to “well, that means they were casuals.” Nah, not buying that. Also like the way you are trying to say the show objectively sucked. No argument from me there, but it’s nice to see some apologists (albeit the more floppy ones) coming around. 



RainmakerV2 said:


> I dunno man..I've just never seen IT with Moxley. He comes off goofy and tryhardy to me and his in ring stuff is nothing special. Just doesn't scream STAR for me and he never has. It doesnt surprise me in the least that Jericho still feels like a bigger deal even without the belt.


I’m the same. Don’t hate the guy or anything, but lost interest around 2016 and now I can’t help but see the guy trying to be an Attitude era star.

Good luck to him and all. And his bank account and personal life seem to be going well. But I don’t have Moxpox.


----------



## bdon

I’ve always said when the show sucked, @The Wood .


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I’ve always said when the show sucked, @The Wood .


In your opinion. I think it’s sucked a lot more than you have. And that’s fine. I just found it genuinely funny you called it a “fact.”


----------



## bdon

@The Wood 

Explain this to me: what does it say that when AEW’s show sucked two weeks in a row, yet they still beat NXT during Mania season? You claim they lost fans, so now you’re willing to state that their fanbase had grew in 2020 and is more in-line with the 900k+ figures they’ve been putting together?

Your need and desire for this company to fail is startling clear, buddy.


----------



## bdon

Double post.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> In your opinion. I think it’s sucked a lot more than you have. And that’s fine. I just found it genuinely funny you called it a “fact.”


Oh, it is a fact, even if no one wants to admit it. Hah


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> @The Wood
> 
> Explain this to me: what does it say that when AEW’s show sucked two weeks in a row, yet they still beat NXT during Mania season? You claim they lost fans, so now you’re willing to state that their fanbase had grew in 2020 and is more in-line with the 900k+ figures they’ve been putting together?
> 
> Your need and desire for this company to fail is startling clear, buddy.


I didn’t say anything about NXT’s audience except that it appears to be stable. They seem to be retaining their viewers. AEW doesn’t. NXT could end up beating AEW without even gaining viewers. But if you’re trying to get me to say that NXT isn’t gaining viewers either, sure — that’s not and has never been my point though.

And if AEW goes down and NXT goes up, AEW will be in potential trouble down the line when trying to shop themselves around, or TNT realizes that other programming in the slot is cheaper and more effective.

I’m not up to date on what is happening with AEW as COVID-19 spreads, but if they end up putting AEW on hiatus and classic cartoons draw more and do better with advertising...yikes.

I know some people are going to read that as me saying that WILL happen. I’m not. I’m just saying that AEW’s ratings aren’t the constant security blanket many fans claim they are. NXT’s could drop drastically if they jump the shark or something. But so far they haven’t. They largely keep the fans they have. But yes, they should really try and engage more people and more urgently. The more people thing will happen, but the more urgently thing I am iffy on. I generally like the shows, but I am totally fine skipping them and there is no one I really care about in NXT besides Velveteen Dream...in theory. They need to do something big with him to launch him though, because I don’t feel the need to tune in.

An inspired case of celebrity involvement may help there.



bdon said:


> Oh, it is a fact, even if no one wants to admit it. Hah


I genuinely found that amusing, by the way. Didn’t mean it as a dig.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Yeah, dismissing someone because of their cultural background kind of is the. . .


If dismissing an armchair expert who lives so far away from you his seasons are the opposite of yours’ lecturings on the viewing motivations of a demo you’re actually apart of is xenophobic, then so be it.


----------



## bdon

And yet, AEW’s “bad” night beat NXT. We know there is 750k-ish viewers each that will tune into NXT and Dynamite every single week. No matter what the circumstance, those people show up.

How you spin it as a negative that AEW drew some newer crowds in and kept them for most of 2020, and lost them this week, is beyond me. I think it is totally unfair. You wait for one negative to jump to the AEW is losing fans card. What will you say if they steal back those same missing 150k fans next week? That they got lucky..? That those viewers don’t count, because they weren’t there last week..?


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> And yet, AEW’s “bad” night beat NXT. We know there is 750k-ish viewers each that will tune into NXT and Dynamite every single week. No matter what the circumstance, those people show up.
> 
> How you spin it as a negative that AEW drew some newer crowds in and kept them for most of 2020, and lost them this week, is beyond me. I think it is totally unfair. You wait for one negative to jump to the AEW is losing fans card. What will you say if they steal back those same missing 150k fans next week? That they got lucky..? That those viewers don’t count, because they weren’t there last week..?


He’ll say it’s not as good as TNA or 90s Raw, and that ratings operate on a margin of error.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> I didn’t say anything about NXT’s audience except that it appears to be stable. They seem to be retaining their viewers. AEW doesn’t. NXT could end up beating AEW without even gaining viewers. But if you’re trying to get me to say that NXT isn’t gaining viewers either, sure — that’s not and has never been my point though.
> 
> And if AEW goes down and NXT goes up, AEW will be in potential trouble down the line when trying to shop themselves around, or TNT realizes that other programming in the slot is cheaper and more effective.
> 
> I’m not up to date on what is happening with AEW as COVID-19 spreads, but if they end up putting AEW on hiatus and classic cartoons draw more and do better with advertising...yikes.
> 
> I know some people are going to read that as me saying that WILL happen. I’m not. I’m just saying that AEW’s ratings aren’t the constant security blanket many fans claim they are. NXT’s could drop drastically if they jump the shark or something. But so far they haven’t. They largely keep the fans they have. But yes, they should really try and engage more people and more urgently. The more people thing will happen, but the more urgently thing I am iffy on. I generally like the shows, but I am totally fine skipping them and there is no one I really care about in NXT besides Velveteen Dream...in theory. They need to do something big with him to launch him though, because I don’t feel the need to tune in.
> 
> An inspired case of celebrity involvement may help there.
> 
> 
> 
> I genuinely found that amusing, by the way. Didn’t mean it as a dig.



The thing is both shows has already hit their ceiling. If Dynamite was as great as AEW fans claim then they wouldn't have lost 50% of their viewers. AEW was never going to maintain these viewers with their product. Their product is only appealing to smarks because smarks are the only ones watching this show. Its the samething with NXT its for smarks because smarks are the only ones watching this show. So both shows have declining and low viewership because of this. Theres no casuals watching either show.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Welp, guess TNT is definitely gonna pull the plug now.

Am I doing it right?


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> If dismissing an armchair expert who lives so far away from you his seasons are the opposite of yours’ lecturings on the viewing motivations of a demo you’re actually apart of is xenophobic, then so be it.


What the fuck does proximity have to do with it? What the fuck do you know about my relationship with the United States? Or my “armchair expertise”? And what the fuck does it even matter in this context? Address the actual facts and stop dismissing people based on where they’re from, who you think they are or what you expect them to be.



bdon said:


> And yet, AEW’s “bad” night beat NXT. We know there is 750k-ish viewers each that will tune into NXT and Dynamite every single week. No matter what the circumstance, those people show up.
> 
> How you spin it as a negative that AEW drew some newer crowds in and kept them for most of 2020, and lost them this week, is beyond me. I think it is totally unfair. You wait for one negative to jump to the AEW is losing fans card. What will you say if they steal back those same missing 150k fans next week? That they got lucky..? That those viewers don’t count, because they weren’t there last week..?


No, the thing is we _don’t_ know that. We don’t know where the bottom is for AEW. Or NXT for that matter. But NXT holds better when something else is on.



DOTL said:


> He’ll say it’s not as good as TNA or 90s Raw, and that ratings operate on a margin of error.


Wtf kind of attempt at trolling is this?



Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> Welp, guess TNT is definitely gonna pull the plug now.
> 
> Am I doing it right?


No. Pay more attention.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

The Wood said:


> No. Pay more attention.


Oh, I will.

To everybody _except_ you.


----------



## Britz94xD

I think fans understand that wrestling shows can't be must-watch television every single week. They know there's going to be a lot of filler in-between the good stuff.

There's people out there that hadn't watched Dynamite for 3 months, they saw the PPV, caught up on all the news and then might not watch for another 3 months or until something extremely noteworthy happens. That's what I did.


----------



## DOTL

Edit: nvm


----------



## The Wood

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> Oh, I will.
> 
> To everybody _except_ you.


That's a shame. You might have learned something. Oh well. You've earned the name "Jack." 



Britz94xD said:


> I think fans understand that wrestling shows can't be must-watch television every single week. They know there's going to be a lot of filler in-between the good stuff.
> 
> There's people out there that hadn't watched Dynamite for 3 months, they saw the PPV, caught up on all the news and then might not watch for another 3 months or until something extremely noteworthy happens. That's what I did.


That's not true at all. Plenty of promotions have created consistently compelling content. That's a cop-out.


----------



## Britz94xD

The Wood said:


> That's not true at all. Plenty of promotions have created consistently compelling content. That's a cop-out.


Yeah but compelling content doesn't cause an exponential growth in viewership. But If Okada showed up on Dynamite or if another top WWE guy jumped ship, then people who don't normally watch the show will tune in.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

The ratings for the current week have nothing to do with the last episode. If the show was weak this week it won't show up in the rating until the following week. It's a pattern that has been noticeable for months. Last weeks show wasn't great but it didn't reflect in their rating. It did this weeks though.

As far as NXT is concerned, they have always had more consistent ratings, less flux. What's the reason? The E. There are people that are going to watch anything and everything WWE regardless of how shit it is. 

However the ratings for this week were heavily influenced by the president and that is evident in the fact that all of the news programs were up with the fallout from his speech. I love wrestling and hate politics but I would have watched had I known about it. I didn't watch Dynamite on time because I forgot about the time change and only saw it when I tried to watch Lego Masters later. This virus is a once in a generational thing and it is more important than wrestling.


----------



## kingfrass44

4


----------



## kingfrass44

Britz94xD said:


> Yeah but compelling content doesn't cause an exponential growth in viewership. But If Okada showed up on Dynamite or if another top WWE guy jumped ship, then people who don't normally watch the show will tune in.


Okada showed up on Dynamite don't tune in Or growth in viewership
Casual does not know Okada


Britz94xD said:


> I think fans understand that wrestling shows can't be must-watch television every single week. They know there's going to be a lot of filler in-between the good stuff.
> 
> There's people out there that hadn't watched Dynamite for 3 months, they saw the PPV, caught up on all the news and then might not watch for another 3 months or until something extremely noteworthy happens. That's what I did.


Stupid excuses


----------



## bdon

kingfrass44 said:


> 4


What’s the count for, I’m curious?


----------



## patpat

The sky is blue, water is wet and wood is seethee and still trying to shit on aew at the slightest occasion.
Because our friend wood I remember very well was one of the people who predicted here week after week that nxt would crush aew in ratings. Now aew is 24-3 one draw against nxt. Instead of admitting that he/she was wrong, he/she prefers coming out here and make himself look like a clown with his questionable reasoning


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> *NETWORK FINALS: As expected, there were multiple news-driven adjustments in final numbers. On CBS, SURVIVOR gained 0.1 and SEAL TEAM was down the same. On NBC, the CHICAGO FIRE and CHICAGO PD reruns both lost 0.1. FOX’s LEGO MASTERS dropped 0.1.*
> 
> both those shows lost some in the demo.


you do understand that the demo is a percentage and not a whole number right? 

More people were watching tv overall.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Britz94xD said:


> 1.4 million people watched the debut show because they were expecting CM Punk, on top of Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega etc.
> 
> If the 2011 Punk was in AEW. They would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and WWE would've been shook. AEW had to work a little harder without Punk but they are doing a great job overall.


If NXT had 1985 Hulk Hogan or 1999 Stone Cold Steve Austin, they would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and AEW would've been shook.


----------



## iarwain

Assuming there are no live shows in the coming weeks, I wonder if AEW will even put on a show at all. And if they do, how well they will compete. Seems like WWE/NXT is better set up for doing a show with no crowd, but maybe I'm underestimating them.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

iarwain said:


> Assuming there are no live shows in the coming weeks, I wonder if AEW will even put on a show at all. And if they do, how well they will compete. Seems like WWE/NXT is better set up for doing a show with no crowd, but maybe I'm underestimating them.


AEW should tour Mexico during this time. Hit up El Paso area and go south from there.


----------



## Britz94xD

NathanMayberry said:


> If NXT had 1985 Hulk Hogan or 1999 Stone Cold Steve Austin, they would be undeniably the best wrestling in the world right now and AEW would've been shook.


Punk is like 12 years younger than Goldberg, He still has many good years in his prime if he wanted to wrestle.



kingfrass44 said:


> Stupid excuses


AEW's fanbase isn't 800K in total, how do you explain millions of AEW fans not watching Dynamite every week then?


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> you do understand that the demo is a percentage and not a whole number right?
> 
> More people were watching tv overall.


And do you understand that those shows with bumps in overall viewership either were 60 minute shows that came on at 8, were news or sport related, or had a lead in from the frikennpresident talking about a pandemic. Seal Team aired 15 minutes late because of this. LEGO Wars or whatever it’s called aired 12 minutes late. Nancy Drew saw a bump, but that show is probably watched by people younger than the demo.

If you’re going to argue that Covid had no effect on viewership you probably should have some sort of control for the type of shows you want to compare to AEW. Of the 3 shows that were 120 minutes and aired at 8pm est, all of them dropped from last week. AEW dropped the most, but that makes sense when you see that it came off a show with a post PPV bump and didn’t have it’s main guy on for more than 2 minutes.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

iarwain said:


> Assuming there are no live shows in the coming weeks, I wonder if AEW will even put on a show at all. And if they do, how well they will compete. Seems like WWE/NXT is better set up for doing a show with no crowd, but maybe I'm underestimating them.


I mean Tony Khan owns Daily's Place. It might not be the most ideal location like Full Sail or the PC for empty arena shows but they own a place that they can use and have used in the past. If they need to do shows for the next few weeks it can serve that purpose, it's not going to be holding concerts for a while that's for sure.


----------



## DOTL

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I mean Tony Khan owns Daily's Place. It might not be the most ideal location like Full Sail or the PC for empty arena shows but they own a place that they can use and have used in the past. If they need to do shows for the next few weeks it can serve that purpose, it's not going to be holding concerts for a while that's for sure.


I’m going to say something crazy.
I say film AEW like a single camera tv show for the time being and add some matches in between. If there’s no crowd, make the crowd less important. Nows the time to experiment with the format.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

DOTL said:


> I’m going to say something crazy.
> I say film AEW like a single camera tv show for the time being and add some matches in between. If there’s no crowd, make the crowd less important. Nows the time to experiment with the format.


I like that. That could work for the time being. However, I think they will do a Best of Dynamite and Best of Dark episodes. Kinda make the show be a 2 hour version of Dark.


----------



## validreasoning

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I mean Tony Khan owns Daily's Place. It might not be the most ideal location like Full Sail or the PC for empty arena shows but they own a place that they can use and have used in the past. If they need to do shows for the next few weeks it can serve that purpose, it's not going to be holding concerts for a while that's for sure.


City of Jacksonville own the stadium and Dailys place not Shad Khan.


----------



## Ozell Gray

WWE Sends Home A Popular Act That Is Expected To Land In AEW


WWE has removed a popular act from TV and sent the duo home, and both stars are expected to land in AEW.




www.forbes.com


----------



## fabi1982

Ozell Gray said:


> WWE Sends Home A Popular Act That Is Expected To Land In AEW
> 
> 
> WWE has removed a popular act from TV and sent the duo home, and both stars are expected to land in AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


The thing is FTR only works for the hardcore fans, who already watch AEW. Its not bad for them, as they will aquire a pretty good tag team but this will not change the ratings or anything. Especially beinh tag team no. 25 on the roster


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Every signing AEW going to make should be rating mover draws.

jk.


----------



## Ozell Gray

fabi1982 said:


> The thing is FTR only works for the hardcore fans, who already watch AEW. Its not bad for them, as they will aquire a pretty good tag team but this will not change the ratings or anything. Especially beinh tag team no. 25 on the roster





fabi1982 said:


> The thing is FTR only works for the hardcore fans, who already watch AEW. Its not bad for them, as they will aquire a pretty good tag team but this will not change the ratings or anything. Especially beinh tag team no. 25 on the roster



Right it won't change the tv ratings. They should be getting good talent off of the indies instead of ex WWE guys but Im assuming this is supposedly a good tag team since I haven't watched any wrestling in 2.5 years.


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> Yeah but compelling content doesn't cause an exponential growth in viewership. But If Okada showed up on Dynamite or if another top WWE guy jumped ship, then people who don't normally watch the show will tune in.


Well, compelling content usually does keep people hooked. That's what makes it compelling. If Okada showed up on Dynamite, a few people from NXT might jump over. Only way AEW gets a deal with New Japan, in my opinion, is if WWE does buy All Japan and tries to prop it up. But that move could be disastrous. Can you imagine a Japanese fan reading up on how their sporting heroes were on a show where Marko Stunt wrestled competitively? Could bury New Japan with its own audience. 



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> The ratings for the current week have nothing to do with the last episode. If the show was weak this week it won't show up in the rating until the following week. It's a pattern that has been noticeable for months. Last weeks show wasn't great but it didn't reflect in their rating. It did this weeks though.
> 
> As far as NXT is concerned, they have always had more consistent ratings, less flux. What's the reason? The E. There are people that are going to watch anything and everything WWE regardless of how shit it is.
> 
> However the ratings for this week were heavily influenced by the president and that is evident in the fact that all of the news programs were up with the fallout from his speech. I love wrestling and hate politics but I would have watched had I known about it. I didn't watch Dynamite on time because I forgot about the time change and only saw it when I tried to watch Lego Masters later. This virus is a once in a generational thing and it is more important than wrestling.


I agree with those first two paragraphs. Absolutely brilliant. When it comes to the ratings though, it's really not the case that everything missed out. More people watched news shows, but those people were people who don't normally watch TV. AEW was the only one that had a significant drop. Lots of shows even gained viewers and in the demo. The whole presidential speech thing seems common sense enough, but it really comes from a time where people were watching TV and could only watch one thing. _A lot_ of people aren't watching TV like that anymore, and _a lot_ of people get their news on their phones and from the computer. And a lot of people weren't going to waste their time with Donald Trump. 

The people who watch TV watched what they usually watch. AEW suffered a 15.5% dip. Find another show that did that. They might be up next week. That could be because of War Games or it could be because of morbid curiosity. With numbers that small, it could even be chance. But the idea that the speech affected AEW doesn't really hold water. It's an archaic concept and one peddled by Meltzer either instinctively, because he's still in old TV mode, or because he's buds with the guys there. But even he should see NXT retaining 97% of their audience and see the 85.5% drop in AEW and figure that something is afoot.



patpat said:


> The sky is blue, water is wet and wood is seethee and still trying to shit on aew at the slightest occasion.
> Because our friend wood I remember very well was one of the people who predicted here week after week that nxt would crush aew in ratings. Now aew is 24-3 one draw against nxt. Instead of admitting that he/she was wrong, he/she prefers coming out here and make himself look like a clown with his questionable reasoning


Hey, instead of trying to bitch about me bitching, how about you try and shut me up with some data. Care to prove how I'm wrong? And you clearly need to stop depending on that memory, because I said that eventually NXT would start beating AEW, and that AEW would win out the gate. I predicted around WrestleMania time they would turn things around. I _might_ be wrong about that. Then you can gloat all you want and do your little nah-nah dances. You've finally caught one human being making one mistake ;-). But no, I didn't say that NXT would have smashed AEW into the dirt by now. In fact, I think my words have always been along the sentiment that AEW would be impossible for NXT to beat out the gate. For a reference of how the trolls responded to that, they would mock me for suggesting that NXT was purposely not going hard with promotion early so they can ramp it up when AEW has cooled. 

If you need help proving how I'm wrong, find me another show that dropped as much in terms of key demo or viewership as Dynamite did. It can be in the ballpark. I'm not going to be an ass and split hairs between 15% and 14%. See if you can find one with a >9% drop.


----------



## bdon

Show me one show that has had that 10-20% gain from the norm over 2-3 months time.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Show me one show that has had that 10-20% gain from the norm over 2-3 months time.


I don't think you know what "gain" means. They've lost viewers overall. Their ratings haven't been going consistently up. You've picked the lowest rating they did and are using that to market its ratings since, which aren't any higher than their average before the dip and are way below where they started from.


----------



## The Wood

If I ran a company that made chips, and my salt and vinegar flavor debuted with 1.4 million packets sold, then it dipped down to 800k packets sold. Hmm. Not great, but possibly whatever. Then it goes down to 750k packets for one week. If it then climbed to 900k packets sold, and I compared that 900k to the 750k low point exclusively, I'd be laughed at for calling that a "gain."


----------



## AEWMoxley

Pac vs Chuck Taylor gained 100K viewers. Chuck Taylor is now the 6th biggest draw on the roster behind Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Pac, and MJF.


----------



## The Wood

AEWMoxley said:


> Pac vs Chuck Taylor drew 100K viewers. Chuck Taylor is now the 6th biggest draw on the roster behind Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Pac, and MJF.


And with that we can safely throw AEW into the garbage, pour gasoline into it and throw in a match. It's done, folks. That surely goes to prove how little anyone gives a shit. Don't worry, there will be another promotion in another 20 years if a super-virus hasn't rendered our flesh.


----------



## bdon

You keep calling for their demise, buddy.


----------



## Britz94xD

The Wood said:


> If I ran a company that made chips, and my salt and vinegar flavor debuted with 1.4 million packets sold, then it dipped down to 800k packets sold. Hmm. Not great, but possibly whatever. Then it goes down to 750k packets for one week. If it then climbed to 900k packets sold, and I compared that 900k to the 750k low point exclusively, I'd be laughed at for calling that a "gain."


It would be like having a company that makes sunscreen and then wondering why there's a 75% drop in sales from July to December. Wrestling is cyclical, it's not super hot all the time.


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> It would be like having a company that makes sunscreen and then wondering why there's a 75% drop in sales from July to December. Wrestling is cyclical, it's not super hot all the time.


Wrestling is not cyclical. That's a bullshit cop-out. Having periods where you aren't necessarily doing as well as you might have due to other factors is one thing, but that doesn't excuse blaming a 15.5% drop on an event that didn't affect much else, or anywhere near as much. It's like blaming a 75% drop for _your_ sunscreen when others only dropped 12%.

By the way, sunscreens probably sell quite well all-year round in certain places. That 75% drop is very dramatic.


----------



## Britz94xD

Do you expect AEW to miraculously grow new wrestling fans on trees every week or something?

I heard Cornette talk about his time in WCW and he was trying to explain to Jim Herd that there's no short term fixes in wrestling, if business is down then all you can do is make moves that will pay off 2-3 years from now.

They mostly made the right moves and now they'll reap the rewards in the near future. WWE on the other hand are the ones sinking into the deep uncool abyss.


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> Do you expect AEW to miraculously grow new wrestling fans on trees every week or something?
> 
> I heard Cornette talk about his time in WCW and he was trying to explain to Jim Herd that there's no short term fixes in wrestling, if business is down then all you can do is make moves that will pay off 2-3 years from now.
> 
> They mostly made the right moves and now they'll reap the rewards in the near future. WWE on the other hand are the ones sinking into the deep uncool abyss.


No, but they shouldn't be losing viewers either. They turned off a lot of people at the start and they might be starting to do so again. I disagree that they've made mostly the right the moves. I think they've made some major, major ones that will cost them well into the future, or has at least left major money on the table.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> If I ran a company that made chips, and my salt and vinegar flavor debuted with 1.4 million packets sold, then it dipped down to 800k packets sold. Hmm. Not great, but possibly whatever. Then it goes down to 750k packets for one week. If it then climbed to 900k packets sold, and I compared that 900k to the 750k low point exclusively, I'd be laughed at for calling that a "gain."


Number after show debut was always going to drop because that is how TV works. Comparing wrestling to selling chips is stupid but hey you're a troll so go figurefigure


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Number after show debut was always going to drop because that is how TV works. Comparing wrestling to selling chips is stupid but hey you're a troll so go figurefigure


That old chestnut again. I’m not even going to address it. Everyone knows losing 500k viewers is not a good thing.

Let’s compare wrestling to wrestling then. One show lost lots of viewers, the other one didn’t. Click, click, boom.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> That old chestnut again. I’m not even going to address it. Everyone knows losing 500k viewers is not a good thing.
> 
> Let’s compare wrestling to wrestling then. One show lost lots of viewers, the other one didn’t. Click, click, boom.


You talking about smackdown debut & drop afterwards?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You talking about smackdown debut & drop afterwards?


What about my post suggested to you that I thought that was good either? Of course that drop is bad too.

At least if you want to defend SmackDown, they have the excuse of not having THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THE WORLD week two. They also still get several times the audience of AEW and a 0.7 in the alleged key demo. They perform better in their time slot than AEW does. They’re also on a tougher night and on network TV, where they have exposure to more viewers, sure, but you’re swimming with the big sharks there.

Do you think that rating would have dropped so much if Rock was still there? You’re kidding yourself.


----------



## Britz94xD

Even if the Rock was on Smackdown every week, the rating would've still went down from the debut show. (By a lot if he wasn't wrestling).


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> Even if the Rock was on Smackdown every week, the rating would've still went down from the debut show. (By a lot if he wasn't wrestling).


It would have gone down, but not AEW down. Especially not if they found him something compelling to do.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It would have gone down, but not AEW down. Especially not if they found him something compelling to do.


If smack down was a potato chip brand how would you respond to huge drop from first week?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> If smack down was a potato chip brand how would you respond to huge drop from first week?


I just answered that. Pay attention.


----------



## Britz94xD

It's probably more common for a new tv show to lose half of it's initial audience at some point than that never happening. Ask Vince Gilligan or Mathew Weiner.

Point being that Dynamite is not struggling. I'd be more alarmed by NXT's older viewers and Raw's year to year drop in ratings. _That's_ embarrassing.


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> It's *probably* more common for a new tv show to lose half of it's initial audience at some point than that never happening. Ask Vince Gilligan or Mathew Weiner.
> 
> Point being that Dynamite is not struggling. I'd be more alarmed by NXT's older viewers and Raw's year to year drop in ratings. _That's_ embarrassing.


Well, it's clear you've just pulled that out your ass. Got any evidence for shows that lose half their audience? I bet Breaking Bad did find itself splitting in half by popularity year over year. Holy fuck.

You would be more alarmed by bullshit you've made up. You want to talk to about TV trends, how about putting Raw's drop into perspective? Is it outside the TV norm? Would you even know, and would you care to listen if someone told you? NXT basically had the same key demo rating as AEW this week. I guess only AEW's 18-49 audience are interested in the COVID-19 stuff, huh? Also, I maintain that this is an archaic way of looking at things, and the viewership is becoming increasingly more important as TV is changing. You get whoever you can to watch. If you can get that key demo, absolutely wonderful -- but there are better and more efficient ways to reach them. NXT is within a cunt hair of AEW in terms of that viewership. So be concerned about that if you want, but Vince McMahon isn't. 

Point is, Dynamite is a lot more vulnerable than people think, and I think it's going to be a bit of a rude awakening for some at a point.


----------



## bdon

How many months can you keep saying that before you give it a fucking rest?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Some people are seeing that AEW aren't as great as smarks make it out to be.

All Elite Wrestling’s honeymoon phase is over as—despite having perhaps the best overall TV product in wrestling—the ****** in the armor of WWE’s new No. 1 competitor are starting to show.
The good news for AEW is that it has consistently outperformed NXT in the viewership department in 2020, establishing itself as the earlier leader in pro wrestling’s new “Wednesday Night War.” The bad news, however, is that_ AEW Dynamite_ is still experiencing its fair share of growing pains. For all of the great things AEW has done—like slowly but surely building up stars such as Scorpio Sky, Jungle Boy, Adam Page and Darby Allin—the upstart promotion has also made a lot of mistakes along the way, some of which are already in the process of being remedied but have also provided WWE with the opportunity to to take advantage of its shortcomings. 

for overlooking talented stars and producing poor storylines, among other issues, at different times. On that same token, some of AEW’s clear shortcomings also pave the way for WWE—in spite all of its own booking problems—to be able to capitalize on the weaknesses that have developed for the new kid on the block.
Here are five big drawbacks of AEW that WWE must capitalize on as pro wrestling’s battle for fans rages on.
*Confusion About Heels And Babyfaces

Prior to AEW’s TV debut last fall, it was reported that the company wouldn’t be utilizing the traditional heel and babyface roles, instead essentially having its stars lean toward one role or the other depending upon the story the company wants to tell at the time.*

That’s a fine strategy in theory because the most natural and best TV characters typically do indeed have shades of gray, and in reality, that philosophy has been pretty well-executed by AEW. In fact, that is one of its most endearing qualities because it has created a product that is more rooted in reality. Even though AEW’s fluid heels and babyfaces give the company more flexibility when it comes to its booking, however, critics will point out that it’s sometimes resulted in confusion about whether those stars should be booed or cheered. There are several stars who do babyface-like things when they’re technically a heel (or vice versa), including names like Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy and The Lucha Brothers, who appear to be villains but go out of their way to try to pop the crowd. In other words, they’re “cool” heels, and cool heels aren’t known for moving the needle.
For all of WWE’s faults, one thing it does do well is draw a definitive line between good and bad. Top heels like Baron Corbin and Seth Rollins don’t pander to the crowd the way that Jericho does at times. Big babyfaces don’t beat down other babyfaces for no reason the way that The Lucha Brothers did before seemingly turning heel by aligning with PAC to form Death Triangle. While AEW should try to differentiate itself from WWE in certain ways, there is a marked difference between trying to create characters with shades of gray and pushing characters in a way that makes the TV audience frustrated by a lack of clear direction.
For now, AEW is having some success by choosing not to book full-fledged heels and babyfaces, but WWE could have a leg up on AEW if the latter flip-flops so much that fans grow frustrated with the constant changes on the babyface/heel alignment. Likewise, some fans will always prefer that classic clear line between good and evil, which WWE typically gives them.
*Corny Gimmicks Galore*

AEW has a wide array of gimmicks, which are performed by very talented superstars but aren’t exactly clicking with pro wrestling fans.
The list of over-the-top characters in AEW reads about a mile long and includes boring stables like the recently disbanded Nightmare Collective and The Dark Order, rarely seen performers such as The Librarian, popular ones such as Lucha Express or the “alien” Kris Statlander and nonsensical ones like The Butcher, The Blade and The Bunny. Pro wrestling fans know that they’re going to have to suspend their disbelief to some extent every time they watch a wrestling show, but AEW has taken that expectation to the next level with its reliance on a slew of gimmicks that come across as corny, if not downright substandard.
Those types of characters may have worked more consistently in the 1980s and 1990s, but today? Eh, not so much. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule as stars like Luchasaurus and Orange Cassidy—whose gimmicks are totally ridiculous—have a very strong connection with AEW’s fan base. But AEW risks coming across as a B-level shows if it relies too heavily on these campy characters. That’s something WWE should benefit from as most of its performers—aside from the rare act like Bray Wyatt—have characters that aren’t as far-fetched as faux butchers, librarians and aliens.
If AEW wants to truly keep pace with WWE, it will need to shy away from gimmicks like The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective (Brandi Rhodes pulled the plug on that one already) moving forward. WWE, meanwhile, can capitalize on that shortcoming with quality booking of its few gimmick-based performers like Wyatt or King Corbin as well as a reliance on characters without over-the-top gimmicks.
*The Women’s Division*

Perhaps the biggest letdown regarding AEW thus far has been its lackluster women’s division, which is dealing with a number of issues: Subpar booking, too many bells and whistles, and a lack of overall star power.
Sure, there are some bright spots in AEW’s women’s division, with stars like Statlander, Nyla Rose, Britt Baker and even Riho showing plenty of promise to develop into household names one day. But AEW’s budding women’s division can’t hold a candle to that of WWE, which is absolutely loaded with talent on Raw, SmackDown and NXT. WWE has noticeably scaled back on its push of the women’s division since WrestleMania 35 last year, but as evidenced at Survivor Series and TLC last year when women’s matched main evented both shows, WWE may be heating back up on its female stars again.
Both WWE’s and AEW’s women’s division are far from perfect, but there’s a lot more to like about WWE’s women’s division, which features more high-profile names—like Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, Ronda Rousey, etc.—and more talent overall. Kenny Omega, who is in charge of creative for the women’s division, has taken exception to complaints about how AEW has booked its female stars thus far, but fans are right to moan and groan about the terrible on-screen portrayal of its female stars, the mundane characters, the poorly written stories and the general lack of TV time.
If WWE has one clear advantage over AEW other than its already built-in fan base, it’s the huge discrepancy between its women’s division and that of AEW. In order to really put the pressure on AEW, WWE should push its women’s division even more strongly than it already does. 

*A Lack Of Star Power And Over-Reliance On Former WWE Stars*

What really prevented Impact Wrestling from ever becoming a viable competitor to WWE is that, roughly a decade ago, it developed a reputation as a place for WWE castoffs.
That was certainly true to an extent as Impact was chock full of former WWE names ranging from Hulk Hogan to Jeff Hardy to Rob Van Dan, among a slew of others. While AEW certainly hasn’t reached that point just yet, the company is already drawing some comparisons—albeit _very_ loose ones—to Impact because of its over-reliance on former WWE stars, including Jericho, Jon Moxley, Jake Hager, PAC, Dustin Rhodes, Cody Rhodes and others. Though it makes sense for AEW to use former WWE stars with national TV exposure as it attempts to build up its audience (and it has, for the most part, done a good job of booking those stars), AEW needs to ensure that it finds that healthy balance between having not enough globally recognizable names and relying too heavily on former WWE stars.
It is and will continue to be a lengthy process for AEW to establish its homegrown talent as household names, but at least right now, it’s clear that AEW has a lack of mainstream star power beyond its former WWE stars, which is a problem that will ideally be fixed over time. Right now, though, AEW has the tough task of developing its top stars like Omega, The Young Bucks or SCU so that they become more recognizable in the general public. Arguably the biggest advantage WWE has over AEW is that it has considerably more major stars, including part-timers like Brock Lesnar, John Cena and Rousey, and full-timers like Lynch, Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan.
In order for WWE to extend the gap between itself and AEW, it needs to make the most out of what is obviously a huge star power advantage over the budding AEW. On the flip side, AEW must create stars who can become the company’s equivalent to the Cenas and Lesnars of the world.

*The Overabundance Of Stables*

If the lousy booking of the women’s division isn’t the biggest shortcoming of AEW, then its overabundance of lackluster stables is.
The Nightmare Collective. The trio of The Blade, The Butcher and The Bunny. The Dark Order. These three stables highlight some of the biggest problems that have plagued AEW as of all these factions come across as something you would see on an indie show, not a national TV product. While AEW has had some success with The Elite and The Inner Circle, the cons associated with its overabundance of stables—many of which are almost exactly alike—heavily outweigh the pros of having so many groups, most of which are badly booked and far from exciting to watch. You’d be hard-pressed, after all, to remember an episode of _AEW Dynamite_ that didn’t feature some sort of huge “schmoz” involving 10 or more wrestlers, which is proof positive of its over-reliance on factions of three o more stars.
WWE has scaled back on its use of stables in recent years, but it has also had its fair share of successes with the likes of The New Day, The Shield and The Wyatt Family, just to name a few. Even unofficial trios like Roman Reigns and The Usos or Dolph Ziggler, Baron Corbin and Bobby Roode have been more entertaining and less ridiculous than what we’ve seen in AEW, where The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective have largely fallen flat and trios have become the norm. WWE has all the tools in the world to be able to create and push compelling factions, and consistent execution of doing so would give pro wrestling fans even more of a reason to prefer WWE over AEW.
At the very least, staying away from booking official stables altogether—unless there’s a very good reason not to—would be a wise move for WWE at a time when AEW is demonstrating exactly why factions can sometimes be overdone. 5 Big Weaknesses Of AEW That WWE Must Capitalize On


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> How many months can you keep saying that before you give it a fucking rest?


When people stop spewing the same garbage it is an appropriate retort to.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Some people are seeing that AEW aren't as great as smarks make it out to be.
> 
> All Elite Wrestling’s honeymoon phase is over as—despite having perhaps the best overall TV product in wrestling—the ****** in the armor of WWE’s new No. 1 competitor are starting to show.
> The good news for AEW is that it has consistently outperformed NXT in the viewership department in 2020, establishing itself as the earlier leader in pro wrestling’s new “Wednesday Night War.” The bad news, however, is that_ AEW Dynamite_ is still experiencing its fair share of growing pains. For all of the great things AEW has done—like slowly but surely building up stars such as Scorpio Sky, Jungle Boy, Adam Page and Darby Allin—the upstart promotion has also made a lot of mistakes along the way, some of which are already in the process of being remedied but have also provided WWE with the opportunity to to take advantage of its shortcomings.
> 
> for overlooking talented stars and producing poor storylines, among other issues, at different times. On that same token, some of AEW’s clear shortcomings also pave the way for WWE—in spite all of its own booking problems—to be able to capitalize on the weaknesses that have developed for the new kid on the block.
> Here are five big drawbacks of AEW that WWE must capitalize on as pro wrestling’s battle for fans rages on.
> *Confusion About Heels And Babyfaces
> 
> Prior to AEW’s TV debut last fall, it was reported that the company wouldn’t be utilizing the traditional heel and babyface roles, instead essentially having its stars lean toward one role or the other depending upon the story the company wants to tell at the time.*
> 
> That’s a fine strategy in theory because the most natural and best TV characters typically do indeed have shades of gray, and in reality, that philosophy has been pretty well-executed by AEW. In fact, that is one of its most endearing qualities because it has created a product that is more rooted in reality. Even though AEW’s fluid heels and babyfaces give the company more flexibility when it comes to its booking, however, critics will point out that it’s sometimes resulted in confusion about whether those stars should be booed or cheered. There are several stars who do babyface-like things when they’re technically a heel (or vice versa), including names like Chris Jericho, Orange Cassidy and The Lucha Brothers, who appear to be villains but go out of their way to try to pop the crowd. In other words, they’re “cool” heels, and cool heels aren’t known for moving the needle.
> For all of WWE’s faults, one thing it does do well is draw a definitive line between good and bad. Top heels like Baron Corbin and Seth Rollins don’t pander to the crowd the way that Jericho does at times. Big babyfaces don’t beat down other babyfaces for no reason the way that The Lucha Brothers did before seemingly turning heel by aligning with PAC to form Death Triangle. While AEW should try to differentiate itself from WWE in certain ways, there is a marked difference between trying to create characters with shades of gray and pushing characters in a way that makes the TV audience frustrated by a lack of clear direction.
> For now, AEW is having some success by choosing not to book full-fledged heels and babyfaces, but WWE could have a leg up on AEW if the latter flip-flops so much that fans grow frustrated with the constant changes on the babyface/heel alignment. Likewise, some fans will always prefer that classic clear line between good and evil, which WWE typically gives them.
> *Corny Gimmicks Galore*
> 
> AEW has a wide array of gimmicks, which are performed by very talented superstars but aren’t exactly clicking with pro wrestling fans.
> The list of over-the-top characters in AEW reads about a mile long and includes boring stables like the recently disbanded Nightmare Collective and The Dark Order, rarely seen performers such as The Librarian, popular ones such as Lucha Express or the “alien” Kris Statlander and nonsensical ones like The Butcher, The Blade and The Bunny. Pro wrestling fans know that they’re going to have to suspend their disbelief to some extent every time they watch a wrestling show, but AEW has taken that expectation to the next level with its reliance on a slew of gimmicks that come across as corny, if not downright substandard.
> Those types of characters may have worked more consistently in the 1980s and 1990s, but today? Eh, not so much. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule as stars like Luchasaurus and Orange Cassidy—whose gimmicks are totally ridiculous—have a very strong connection with AEW’s fan base. But AEW risks coming across as a B-level shows if it relies too heavily on these campy characters. That’s something WWE should benefit from as most of its performers—aside from the rare act like Bray Wyatt—have characters that aren’t as far-fetched as faux butchers, librarians and aliens.
> If AEW wants to truly keep pace with WWE, it will need to shy away from gimmicks like The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective (Brandi Rhodes pulled the plug on that one already) moving forward. WWE, meanwhile, can capitalize on that shortcoming with quality booking of its few gimmick-based performers like Wyatt or King Corbin as well as a reliance on characters without over-the-top gimmicks.
> *The Women’s Division*
> 
> Perhaps the biggest letdown regarding AEW thus far has been its lackluster women’s division, which is dealing with a number of issues: Subpar booking, too many bells and whistles, and a lack of overall star power.
> Sure, there are some bright spots in AEW’s women’s division, with stars like Statlander, Nyla Rose, Britt Baker and even Riho showing plenty of promise to develop into household names one day. But AEW’s budding women’s division can’t hold a candle to that of WWE, which is absolutely loaded with talent on Raw, SmackDown and NXT. WWE has noticeably scaled back on its push of the women’s division since WrestleMania 35 last year, but as evidenced at Survivor Series and TLC last year when women’s matched main evented both shows, WWE may be heating back up on its female stars again.
> Both WWE’s and AEW’s women’s division are far from perfect, but there’s a lot more to like about WWE’s women’s division, which features more high-profile names—like Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, Ronda Rousey, etc.—and more talent overall. Kenny Omega, who is in charge of creative for the women’s division, has taken exception to complaints about how AEW has booked its female stars thus far, but fans are right to moan and groan about the terrible on-screen portrayal of its female stars, the mundane characters, the poorly written stories and the general lack of TV time.
> If WWE has one clear advantage over AEW other than its already built-in fan base, it’s the huge discrepancy between its women’s division and that of AEW. In order to really put the pressure on AEW, WWE should push its women’s division even more strongly than it already does.
> 
> *A Lack Of Star Power And Over-Reliance On Former WWE Stars*
> 
> What really prevented Impact Wrestling from ever becoming a viable competitor to WWE is that, roughly a decade ago, it developed a reputation as a place for WWE castoffs.
> That was certainly true to an extent as Impact was chock full of former WWE names ranging from Hulk Hogan to Jeff Hardy to Rob Van Dan, among a slew of others. While AEW certainly hasn’t reached that point just yet, the company is already drawing some comparisons—albeit _very_ loose ones—to Impact because of its over-reliance on former WWE stars, including Jericho, Jon Moxley, Jake Hager, PAC, Dustin Rhodes, Cody Rhodes and others. Though it makes sense for AEW to use former WWE stars with national TV exposure as it attempts to build up its audience (and it has, for the most part, done a good job of booking those stars), AEW needs to ensure that it finds that healthy balance between having not enough globally recognizable names and relying too heavily on former WWE stars.
> It is and will continue to be a lengthy process for AEW to establish its homegrown talent as household names, but at least right now, it’s clear that AEW has a lack of mainstream star power beyond its former WWE stars, which is a problem that will ideally be fixed over time. Right now, though, AEW has the tough task of developing its top stars like Omega, The Young Bucks or SCU so that they become more recognizable in the general public. Arguably the biggest advantage WWE has over AEW is that it has considerably more major stars, including part-timers like Brock Lesnar, John Cena and Rousey, and full-timers like Lynch, Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan.
> In order for WWE to extend the gap between itself and AEW, it needs to make the most out of what is obviously a huge star power advantage over the budding AEW. On the flip side, AEW must create stars who can become the company’s equivalent to the Cenas and Lesnars of the world.
> 
> *The Overabundance Of Stables*
> 
> If the lousy booking of the women’s division isn’t the biggest shortcoming of AEW, then its overabundance of lackluster stables is.
> The Nightmare Collective. The trio of The Blade, The Butcher and The Bunny. The Dark Order. These three stables highlight some of the biggest problems that have plagued AEW as of all these factions come across as something you would see on an indie show, not a national TV product. While AEW has had some success with The Elite and The Inner Circle, the cons associated with its overabundance of stables—many of which are almost exactly alike—heavily outweigh the pros of having so many groups, most of which are badly booked and far from exciting to watch. You’d be hard-pressed, after all, to remember an episode of _AEW Dynamite_ that didn’t feature some sort of huge “schmoz” involving 10 or more wrestlers, which is proof positive of its over-reliance on factions of three o more stars.
> WWE has scaled back on its use of stables in recent years, but it has also had its fair share of successes with the likes of The New Day, The Shield and The Wyatt Family, just to name a few. Even unofficial trios like Roman Reigns and The Usos or Dolph Ziggler, Baron Corbin and Bobby Roode have been more entertaining and less ridiculous than what we’ve seen in AEW, where The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective have largely fallen flat and trios have become the norm. WWE has all the tools in the world to be able to create and push compelling factions, and consistent execution of doing so would give pro wrestling fans even more of a reason to prefer WWE over AEW.
> At the very least, staying away from booking official stables altogether—unless there’s a very good reason not to—would be a wise move for WWE at a time when AEW is demonstrating exactly why factions can sometimes be overdone. 5 Big Weaknesses Of AEW That WWE Must Capitalize On


This has nothing to do with ratings & buy rates


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> When people stop spewing the same garbage it is an appropriate retort to.


I genuinely laughed, because I know the type of super optimistic fans you’re talking about. Hah


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> This has nothing to do with ratings & buy rates


Yes it does. The honeymoon period being over means that fans are going to be less avid about following it, watching it on TV, buying tickets, etc. It's all connected. 



bdon said:


> I genuinely laughed, because I know the type of super optimistic fans you’re talking about. Hah


Even you have to cop it sometimes, haha.


----------



## patpat

Pippen94 said:


> This has nothing to do with ratings & buy rates


You mean to tell me you read all that shit? 
Kudos


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Yes it does. The honeymoon period being over means that fans are going to be less avid about following it, watching it on TV, buying tickets, etc. It's all connected.
> 
> 
> 
> Even you have to cop it sometimes, haha.


Only if you cop to being biased against AEW for not being what you’d hoped it to be.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Only if you cop to being biased against AEW for not being what it was promised to be.


Fixed it for you


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Only if you cop to being biased against AEW for not being what you’d hoped it to be.


A hot alternative pro-wrestling show? Sure.


----------



## Pippen94

Will show do over a million viewers? Nxt ran clip show & no other live sports


----------



## Beatles123

There has been a lot of assholery in this thread.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Pippen94 said:


> Will show do over a million viewers? Nxt ran clip show & no other live sports


Seemingly every show has increased in viewership as more people stay home. You'd imagine Dynamite would as well. Would be a pretty big failure if it didn't.


----------



## RiverFenix

I don't know if it will break 1M. They don't have a long established base that would look to it as "comfort food". SDL and Raw were drizzling shits and they increased viewers though and AEW looked WAY better so if anything I think they could steal away NXT viewers who got clip show rehash - if they see any growth.


----------



## RapShepard

It'll be interesting to see how they did yesterday. A really good show combined with a lot of people being home they should see an increase and crack a million.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

Surely they will hit the 1M mark with no sports competition on and WWE running a poor show.


----------



## Stevieg786

When are ratings out?


----------



## Aedubya

Guessing 0.98


----------



## DOTL

My guess is 804k .31 rating 

hopefully it’s more


----------



## AEWMoxley

850K-900K should be doable. They were at 906K two weeks ago. Last week at 760K, and with more people staying home, most of the people who watched two weeks ago but did not watch last week should have returned to the product.


----------



## IamMark

NXT not in Top 50.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Expected bump. Matt Hardy's debut helped too.

Too bad they didn't get to a million, but it's not surprising.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Real housewives ftw


----------



## Ozell Gray

Good bounce back but its still the same stagnant 800-900,000.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Good bounce back but its still the same stagnant 800-900,000.


Good thing it was more than 900k, then.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

They bounced back fairly well. If they are on next week, they’ll do over a million


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Good thing it was more than 900k, then.


Yeah barely by 32,000 so my comment is still correct.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.35 is what they normally do

but woof! The peeps who said AEW was dying was right. All those empty seats last night


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> They bounced back fairly well. If they are on next week, they’ll do over a million


The whole situation can work out in their favor if they aren't forced to cancel entirely and can put on good shows. With everyone staying in, they'll have an opportunity to present their product to a larger number of people. Hopefully they don't screw it up like they did in October.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah barely by 32,000 so my comment is still correct.


A third of 100k is barely 💀


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah barely by 32,000 so my comment is still correct.


Doesn’t matter. The casual audience you guys were saying were abandoning the show last week returned. After this hot show there’s good reason to believe the next one will perform better.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> The whole situation can work out in their favor if they aren't forced to cancel entirely and can put on good shows. With everyone staying in, they'll have an opportunity to present their product to a larger number of people. Hopefully they don't screw it up like they did in October.



The people who didn't watch wrestling before aren't going to start watching now just because they're at home.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> The whole situation can work out in their favor if they aren't forced to cancel entirely and can put on good shows. With everyone staying in, they'll have an opportunity to present their product to a larger number of people. Hopefully they don't screw it up like they did in October.


Matt Hardy brought in 1 million youtube views in less than 24 hours. There is a massive interest.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> The people who didn't watch wrestling before aren't going to start watching now just because they're at home.


I'm referring to the ones who have watched in the last several months. They've got nothing else to do. Of course some will tune in. This is AEW's best chance to make a good impression.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> Matt Hardy brought in 1 million youtube views in less than 24 hours. There is a massive interest.


Indeed. No doubt that a good amount of people expected him to be revealed as the Exalted One last night, so many tuned in for him.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Doesn’t matter. The casual audience you guys were saying were abandoning the show last week returned. After this hot show there’s good reason to believe the next one will perform better.


Except they don't have a casual audience. They're only audience are smarks theres no casuals watching aew. Yeah they had a good bounce back no one's denying that, but thats how its alway is with them ut fluctuates. Theres no reason to think its going to do better next week especially when they do go up one week they always go down the next week or 2 and this will be no different.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Except they don't have a casual audience. They're only audience are smarks theres no casuals watching aew. Yeah they had a good bounce back no one's denying that, but thats how its alway is with them ut fluctuates. Theres no reason to think its going to do better next week especially when they do go up one week they always go down the next week or 2 and this will be no different.


This guy thinks there are a million “smarks” 💀


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm referring to the ones who have watched in the last several months. They've got nothing else to do. Of course some will tune in. This is their best chance to make a good impression.


If they didn't like what they saw the first time and stopped watching then they're not going to start watching now either. They can grow if they stop catering to the smarks (iwc) but if they don't then it'll always be a niche audience.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm referring to the ones who have watched in the last several months. They've got nothing else to do. Of course some will tune in. This is their best chance to make a good impression.


If they didn't like what they saw the first time and stopped watching then they're not going to start watching now either. They can grow if they stop catering to the smarks (iwc) but if they don't then it'll always be a niche audience.


----------



## rbl85

If they can do the blood and guts show next Week , they will do more than 1M.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> A third of 100k is barely 💀


No he said my comment was wrong because I said its still the same stagnant 800-900,000. Thats when I said it was only more than 900,000 only by 32,000 so my comment is still correct which it is.


----------



## patpat

Very good numbers
They recovered perfectly from last week.
Also proved a lot of narratives from last week WRONG.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> This guy thinks there are a million “smarks” 💀


They're not getting a million viewers so n o I don't think theres a million smarks.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> No he said my comment was wrong because I said its still the same stagnant 800-900,000. Thats when I said it was only more than 900,000 only by 32,000 so my comment is still correct which it is.


32k is fairly significant. But it’s not their highest rating so it’s not an L or a W.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> They're not getting a million viewers so n o I don't think theres a million smarks.


BuT 10% aLlOwAnCe

AEW cOuLd Be DoInG oVeR a MilLiOn


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> If they didn't like what they saw the first time and stopped watching then they're not going to start watching now either. They can grow if they stop catering to the smarks (iwc) but if they don't then it'll always be a niche audience.


You don't have to tell me that. I've been saying all along that they need to cater to a more casual audience. They've done a better job of that this year than they did last year, especially in October.

But you're wrong about people not tuning in. People have nothing better to do right now, and last night's show got a nice bump, and more importantly, seems to have been well received. Plus, Matt Hardy has generated some buzz. They should pull in a big number next week, if they don't have to cancel.


----------



## RiverFenix

I think they'd get a sizable bump next week if there is a show and NXT does a clip show again. 

Problem with a show next week - there is no raising or lowering the cage at Daily's Place, so it would have to be in place for the whole show. One option would be to put the double ring and cage up in the Football practice facility which I believe is right on the other side of the stage behind a garage door.


----------



## RapShepard

They went up about 200k right?


----------



## DaSlacker

My thoughts:

They deserved more.

A minimum of 500,000 people will watch prime time wrestling on any major cable network. That is the baseline in 2020; 6 years ago the baseline was 1 million viewers.


----------



## MrThortan

It was one of their better shows, even without an audience. Made me excited to see what they will do next week, if they are even on. Is 932 million their highest number of viewers? I could see them breaking a million if Blood and Guts is still on.


----------



## qntntgood

AEWMoxley said:


> Expected bump. Matt Hardy's debut helped too.
> 
> Too bad they didn't get to a million, but it's not surprising.


Fear and panic still sells for the mainstream media, so no surprise here but aew still made the top 20 television program's which is good.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> 32k is fairly significant. But it’s not their highest rating so it’s not an L or a W.


It's goo that it went back up but it's still the same audience of 800,000-900,000 viewers. These are stagnant ratings.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> BuT 10% aLlOwAnCe
> 
> AEW cOuLd Be DoInG oVeR a MilLiOn


But they're not thats the thing and they won't if they keep catering to smarks.


----------



## AEW_19

The meltdown on twitter is funny. Apparently they have "abandoned the homegrown talent" and "just sign WWE guys". What is always amusing is the hurt feelings when someone disses Vince. Why do people take that so personally? The stockholm syndrome is pretty rife there.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> You don't have to tell me that. I've been saying all along that they need to cater to a more casual audience. They've done a better job of that this year than they did last year, especially in October.
> 
> But you're wrong about people not tuning in. People have nothing better to do right now, and last night's show got a nice bump, and more importantly, seems to have been well received. Plus, Matt Hardy has generated some buzz. They should pull in a big number next week, if they don't have to cancel.


Not really just because people have nothing else to do doesn't mean they'll tune in and watch wrestling especially if they didn't or still don't like it. So they're not going to get those people because they don't want to watch it.


----------



## AEW_19

The other one that I forgot was "They shouldn't be having that many wrestlers together near the ring" 😂


----------



## Chan Hung

Even with empty seats, AEW kicked ass! Great show. Matt is a good ratings draw at the moment. Next week should continue this trend.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## One Shed

It was a great show last night and I think they will break one million next week. Everyone is home and bored and they proved they can put on an entertaining show with no audience. Unless domestic air travel shuts down, they will continue to get new eyeballs on the product during the lock down.


----------



## Alright_Mate

More WWE cast-offs the better.

Matt Hardy with his Broken gimmick is a draw.

Might even have to watch this weeks ep myself when it’s available in the UK.


----------



## Chan Hung

Brody, Hardy, Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Jake Roberts as manager, MJF, Hangman Page, etc...things are picking up boys and girls!


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Except they don't have a casual audience. They're only audience are smarks theres no casuals watching aew. Yeah they had a good bounce back no one's denying that, but thats how its alway is with them ut fluctuates. Theres no reason to think its going to do better next week especially when they do go up one week they always go down the next week or 2 and this will be no different.


Recovering over 160k viewers says otherwise. People don’t leave and return unless they are a casual viewer. It doesn’t matter how they feel about wrestling.


----------



## EMGESP

AEWMoxley said:


> Expected bump. Matt Hardy's debut helped too.
> 
> Too bad they didn't get to a million, but it's not surprising.


That makes zero sense, he was not advertised and he debut at the end of the show.


----------



## AEWMoxley

EMGESP said:


> That makes zero sense, he was not advertised and he debut at the end of the show.


The reveal of the Exalted One was advertised, and everyone was expecting that to be Matt Hardy. Everyone was anticipating his debut.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Recovering over 160k viewers says otherwise. People don’t leave and return unless they are a casual viewer. It doesn’t matter how they feel about wrestling.


No it doesn't because their viewership always does that where it goes down to 700-600,000 then it goes back up to its average of 800-900,000. Yes people do leave and come back even though they're not casuals because you were busy that day last week but you have nothing to do today so you watch it that day. They have 0 casuals watching its all smarks watching and if casuals were watching then their tv ratings would be higher than it is. It does matter how they feel about wrestling if they never watched it or did watch it and didn't like it then they're never going to tune back in.


----------



## The Wood

But news show had lots of viewers! Doesn't that mean that AEW _has_ to be down? Turns out that was a crock. 

Normal rating for AEW. Good for them, bad for wrestling. The same story. It'll be interesting to see whether or not the virus helps or hurts them.


----------



## Erik.

It's quite amazing that 930k viewers and a 0.35 is 20th.

Thats usually top 5, right!? 

News shows actually dominating, unsurprisingly. They are actually one of the only non-News shows in the top 20.

Im pleased they atleast got a bump. It was a show that deserved the viewers it got. They've heavily built the next Dynamite whenever that is. War Games, Lumberjack, Parking Lot brawl. What's Brodie Lee going to be up to? What's Archer going to do? Will Moxley get his hands on the IC?


----------



## EmbassyForever

That's awesome. Next week should be badass.


----------



## Chan Hung

Yeah the news/media stories of the fucking virus is taking over but least AEW is top rated this week in its category


----------



## RiverFenix

I wonder what the Q-Hour ratings will tell. Did interest drop on the Brodie Lee reveal with Hardy fans expecting Hardy and checking out? 

AEW debuted both on the same show which was meant to be a swerve in a way. Hurt themselves a bit with viewers this week, but get the big reveal fade to black to get folks talking knowing they could be off television for awhile. It was like a end of season cliffhanger or big reveal typical when shows end for the summer. 

I might have had Vanguard-1 appear earlier in the show or something to indicate Hardy was around.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> The reveal of the Exalted One was advertised, and everyone was expecting that to be Matt Hardy. Everyone was anticipating his debut.


not all of matt hardy's fans watch aew though, and not all will have any clue about the exalted one.

the rating will be good next week if dynamite is on.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

moxley will be back, matt hardy, blood and guts

next week aew could really hit a million if they haven't postponed the show.


----------



## Erik.

I hope they get creative for the war games match. 

Meeting at some gritty warehouse where two rings and cages are set up for the match would be awesome, especially as no fans will be there. 

Gives them a chance to be really creative with the cinematography to make it seem so different to anything we've seen from a wrestling show on mainstream TV.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> I hope they get creative for the war games match.
> 
> Meeting at some gritty warehouse where two rings and cages are set up for the match would be awesome, especially as no fans will be there.
> 
> Gives them a chance to be really creative with the cinematography to make it seem so different to anything we've seen from a wrestling show on mainstream TV.


the way they did archer's segment. it felt hollywood produced.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> not all of matt hardy's fans watch aew though, and not all will have any clue about the exalted one.
> 
> the rating will be good next week if dynamite is on.


Not all of them, but the ones who tuned in last night were undoubtedly ones who follow him on social media and who were aware of all the speculation about his debut.


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> the way they did archer's segment. it felt hollywood produced.


It was superb.

I love the way they produce their segments/vignettes.

From the Butcher/Blade one where they were literally working in a butchers and MJF showing they were just mercenaries, to Wardlow beating up guys in a parking lot during his vignette, to now Archers vignette adding more to his character.

I tell you what, a few of the women could do with these video packages.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> It was superb.
> 
> I love the way they produce their segments/vignettes.
> 
> From the Butcher/Blade one where they were literally working in a butchers and MJF showing they were just mercenaries, to Wardlow beating up guys in a parking lot during his vignette, to now Archers vignette adding more to his character.
> 
> I tell you what, a few of the women could do with these video packages.


Would you enjoy a war games match in that fashion? Dramatic music would kill out any quietness, they could CGI a crowd in quite easily.


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> Would you enjoy a war games match in that fashion? Dramatic music would kill out any quietness, they could CGI a crowd in quite easily.


I wouldnt want it presented like a vignette or backstage segment.

But hearing the rawness and the echo of a warehouse or airplane hangar with just two rings and cages, whilst the commentators sell the brutality.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Excellent show. They showed how to do a show in the current climate. I look for SD to copy elements of it tomorrow.

My wife is in the room (works from home) when I am watching wrestling and she was a AE kid and with WWE she usually tunes out or complains how stupid it is. She used to watch a little bit of Dynamite but has been watching more and more of it. She was the one who twisted my arm to order Revolution and then proceeded to watch it 3 days in a row. I tell her the negativity about AEW getting ex-WWE talent and she is like "Even without the Exalted One Reveal and the Broken Matt Appearance it was an entertaining show."


----------



## captainzombie

This week's show delivered and I was expecting it not to be that good after having watched what was put out on RAW/SD. Cody and team really knocked it out of the park. I think having some of the face talent on one side and the heel talent on the other really helped things out.

MJF and Spears gambling out there on the matches was so fun. MJF did a hell of a job out there getting himself over even more, and adding to the no crowd.

I guess if they do come back next week, they can always have the show from the Hardy compound. There is so much that they can do there after all of the stuff that was done during Impact. Hell, they can make the Blood & Guts match be an hour long to take up time. Have the street fight happen outside of the compound with a circle of junkyard cars with their lights turned on in the dark with Best Friends vs. Lucha Bros. It could turn out to be quite fun.

It's a bummer that both Lee and Hardy didn't get to debut in front of a huge hot roaring crowd, but they managed to pull it off.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No it doesn't because their viewership always does that where it goes down to 700-600,000 then it goes back up to its average of 800-900,000. Yes people do leave and come back even though they're not casuals because you were busy that day last week but you have nothing to do today so you watch it that day. They have 0 casuals watching its all smarks watching and if casuals were watching then their tv ratings would be higher than it is. It does matter how they feel about wrestling if they never watched it or did watch it and didn't like it then they're never going to tune back in.


It went down to those levels like three or four times out of a buttload of shows.

Saying "they have no casuals" is a statement you can't back up. At least my speculation has some volatility to help it.


----------



## kingfrass44

Chan Hung said:


> Even with empty seats, AEW kicked ass! Great show. Matt is a good ratings draw at the moment. Next week should continue this trend.


You are deceiving yourself 
It may not be until a week ahead


----------



## bdon

And with that we can safely throw NXT into the garbage, pour gasoline into it and throw in a match. It's done, folks. That surely goes to prove how little anyone gives a shit. Don't worry, there will be another promotion in another 20 years if a super-virus hasn't rendered our flesh.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> But news show had lots of viewers! Doesn't that mean that AEW _has_ to be down? Turns out that was a crock.
> 
> Normal rating for AEW. Good for them, bad for wrestling. The same story. It'll be interesting to see whether or not the virus helps or hurts them.





DOTL said:


> It went down to those levels like three or four times out of a buttload of shows.
> 
> Saying "they have no casuals" is a statement you can't back up. At least my speculation has some volatility to help it.


Yes it is a claim I can backup, and its easy to back up because if they had casuals watching then they wouldn't be only getting the stagnant 800-900,000 viewers. So no its not speculation but facts.


DOTL said:


> It went down to those levels like three or four times out of a buttload of shows.
> 
> Saying "they have no casuals" is a statement you can't back up. At least my speculation has some volatility to help it.


You're still not disproving my point all you're doing is talking a bunch of gibberish thats all. Im talking facts thats supported by evidence.


----------



## kingfrass44

Lheurch said:


> It was a great show last night and I think they will break one million next week. Everyone is home and bored and they proved they can put on an entertaining show with no audience. Unless domestic air travel shuts down, they will continue to get new eyeballs on the product during the lock down.


will not break one million next week These are just facts without facts 
Everyone is home and bored and not change much next week
From in home and bored They do not watch wrestling mainly


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Yes it is a claim I can backup, and its easy to back up because if they had casuals watching then they wouldn't be only getting the stagnant 800-900,000 viewers. So no its not speculation but facts.
> 
> 
> You're still not disproving my point all you're doing is talking a bunch of gibberish thats all. Im talking facts thats supported by evidence.


Just because there’s a soft cap to how much viewers they get does not meaning they’re all hardcore wrestling fans. That doesn’t even make sense.


----------



## Aedubya

Aedubya said:


> Guessing 0.98


Not far off!


----------



## Fearless Viper

Damn, NXT got hurt badly.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Just because there’s a soft cap to how much viewers they get does not meaning they’re all hardcore wrestling fans. That doesn’t even make sense.


Actually it does mean only hardcore fans are watching because if it wasn't then they'd have better tv ratings but they don't because only smarks are watching it. Thats how tv works. Theres. No casuals watching this company.


----------



## One Shed

kingfrass44 said:


> will not break one million next week These are just facts without facts
> Everyone is home and bored and not change much next week
> From in home and bored They do not watch wrestling mainly


Are you trying to write a reply or a haiku? Use grammar please.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Actually it does mean only hardcore fans are watching because if it wasn't then they'd have better tv ratings but they don't because only smarks are watching it. Thats how tv works. Theres. No casuals watching this company.


Lol saying something over and over again isn’t evidence. You’re just making crap up.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Lol saying something over and over again isn’t evidence. You’re just making crap up.


The evidence is in the low tv ratings. So you're the one just making crap up.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> The evidence is in the low tv ratings. So you're the one just making crap up.


show us the numbers of smarks in the US


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> show us the numbers of smarks in the US


I don't have to show the number of smarks in the u.s because their low viewership speaks for its self. Face facts thats the only group of people watching this company.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> I don't have to show the number of smarks in the u.s because their low viewership speaks for its self. Face facts thats the only group of people watching this company.


lmao


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> lmao


🤣😂


----------



## taker1986

Hardy's Debut has 1.8 Million YouTube views, which is more than any SD segment in the last 2 weeks, and the only Raw segment that barely beat it was Taker


----------



## bdon

taker1986 said:


> Hardy's Debut has 1.8 Million YouTube views, which is more than any SD segment in the last 2 weeks, and the only Raw segment that barely beat it was Taker


Proof they need to make him world champion. Right @AEWMoxley @iamthegame19


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Would you enjoy a war games match in that fashion? Dramatic music would kill out any quietness, they could CGI a crowd in quite easily.


God, I kind of hope they do this just for the merciless mocking that will ensue.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> God, I kind of hope they do this just for the merciless mocking that will ensue.


They’d never do that.

WWE adding cheers to the fan reactions, though, isn’t much removed from this suggestion, so we could easily see such a thing next week on Raw or SD or Mania.

Be cute and find a way to have the stupidity shoved back in your wwe face.


----------



## The Wood

I remember The Hardys returning to the WWE has something like 17 million views the day after it happened. It's also important to note the Orange Cassidy principle. People sharing and watching it doesn't mean they think it is good. They could be taking a big ol' laugh at how silly wrestling has become. 

Haven't watched the segment myself, so I honestly don't know. I HATE the Broken Matt stuff with a passion. I was honestly a bit of a Matt Hardy mark growing up, but it made me DESPISE him as a performer in any other role than Jeff's brother. I also thought it was a pretty obvious example of how the wrestling bubble convinces itself that something is hot or it works when it clearly doesn't. 300k viewers for TNA and 1 million YouTube views MAX really put a spotlight on the ceiling with it. 

AEW don't mind being a niche of the niche though, so it doesn't surprise me that they're going with a 46-year-old man purposely doing bad acting to cover up his lack of genuine promo ability for a laugh.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> They’d never do that.
> 
> WWE adding cheers to the fan reactions, though, isn’t much removed from this suggestion, so we could easily see such a thing next week on Raw or SD or Mania.
> 
> Be cute and find a way to have the stupidity shoved back in your wwe face.


What? I'm not a fan of the WWE or them running empty arena shows either. I think it's cringey as hell and they should go on hiatus. Not sure where you got this idea that I think they're doing good shit.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> The evidence is in the low tv ratings. So you're the one just making crap up.


Think about what you’re saying. You’re assuming the make up of the viewership with the raw viewership alone, which makes no dang sense.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Proof they need to make him world champion. Right @AEWMoxley @iamthegame19


Given the rest of the roster, yes, Matt Hardy would be a better champion than anybody outside of Moxley, Jericho, MJF, or Cody.

That says more about the rest of the roster, though.


----------



## Illogical

The Wood said:


> I HATE the Broken Matt stuff with a passion.


We're in agreement with this. But so sad coming here seeing you still reaching so far to tell us why AEW's failing. AEW is huge fail! Sad!


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Think about what you’re saying. You’re assuming the make up of the viewership with the raw viewership alone, which makes no dang sense.



I did think about what I said and what I said is correct. Their tv ratings are are made up of only smarks watching theres no casuals watching. Actually it makes perfect sense you just can't grasp that you're wrong. Theres no casuals watchin if they were then they'd get higher viewership numbers but they aren't getting it because only smarks watch it. Its not hard to understand that.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I did think about what I said and what I said is correct. Their tv ratings are are made up of only smarks watching theres no casuals watching. Actually it makes perfect sense you just can't grasp that you're wrong. Theres no casuals watchin if they were then they'd get higher viewership numbers but they aren't getting it because only smarks watch it. Its not hard to understand that.


It’s not that it’s difficult to understand. It’s just dumb. At what number of raw viewership must they reach before they get their first casual viewer?

See, even that question makes no sense.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> It’s not that it’s difficult to understand. It’s just dumb. At what number of raw viewership must they reach before they get their first casual viewer?
> 
> See, even that question makes no sense.


No its not dumb its smart. Its only dumb to ignorant smarks like you who want to believe lies. If they had over 1.5 million or so then you'd have a point of casuals tuning in but they don't have that because casuals aren't watching. Only smarks are watching which you can see with their stagnant tv ratings.

See so you make no sense whatsoever.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No its not dumb its smart. Its only dumb to ignorant smarks like you who want to believe lies. If they had over 1.5 million or so then you'd have a point of casuals tuning in but they don't have that because casuals aren't watching. Only smarks are watching which you can see with their stagnant tv ratings.
> 
> See so you make no sense whatsoever.


You didn’t answer my question. What’s the threshold of total views before AEW gets its first casual viewer.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> You didn’t answer my question. What’s the threshold of total views before AEW gets its first casual viewer.



I answered your wuestion already in my last reply do you have a reading comprehension problem?


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I answered your wuestion already in my last reply do you have a reading comprehension problem?


No you didn’t. You just kept repeating the same old bull.
At what point in the raw viewership does AEW get its FIRST casual viewer?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> No you didn’t. You just kept repeating the same old bull.
> At what point in the raw viewership does AEW get its FIRST casual viewer?


Yes i did so go back and read it and you'll see. You're the one that keeps spewing garbage in your comments. Go back and look at my other comment and I gave your answer.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Yes i did so go back and read it and you'll see. You're the one that keeps spewing garbage in your comments. Go back and look at my other comment and I gave your answer.


No you said over 1.5 million means they have may have a casual viewership. I didn’t ask what number indicates casual viewership. I asked what’s the cutoff in raw viewership for their first individual casual viewer.
That is to say, what is the ratio between hardcore and casual viewership?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> No you said over 1.5 million means they have may have a casual viewership. I didn’t ask what number indicates casual viewership. I asked what’s the cutoff in raw viewership for their first individual casual viewer.
> That is to say, what is the ratio between hardcore and casual viewership?


No its not what i said. I said if they had 1.5 million then you'd be correct in saying they have casuals watching but they're not doing those numbers so we know that theres no casuals at all watching them. 1.5 million indicates casuals are watching and 800-900,000 viewers indicates only smarks are watching. They're doing the latter which means only smarks watch. So the cut off would beike if they did 1.5 million but the smarks are 800-900,000 of those viewers and the casuals are 600-700,000 of those viewers. 

But they're only watched by smarks now and has no desire to appeal to casuals so it'll continue to be a small company because of that.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No its not what i said. I said if they had 1.5 million then you'd be correct in saying they have casuals watching but they're not doing those numbers so we know that theres no casuals at all watching them. 1.5 million indicates casuals are watching and 800-900,000 viewers indicates only smarks are watching. They're doing the latter which means only smarks watch. So the cut off would beike if they did 1.5 million but the smarks are 800-900,000 of those viewers and the casuals are 600-700,000 of those viewers.
> 
> But they're only watched by smarks now and has no desire to appeal to casuals so it'll continue to be a small company because of that.


So they need to have 1.5m people all together for there to be indications of a random non fan tuning in. . . Ok.

Where are you getting these numbers?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Where are you getting these numbers?


You asked me the question so I answered it. These numbers are based off of the data from tv ratings.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> No its not dumb its smart. Its only dumb to ignorant smarks like you who want to believe lies. If they had over 1.5 million or so then you'd have a point of casuals tuning in but they don't have that because casuals aren't watching. Only smarks are watching which you can see with their stagnant tv ratings.
> 
> See so you make no sense whatsoever.


You’re wrong bro. There are 2 million smarks in the US. Over 1.5 will still be all smarks.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> You asked me the question so I answered it. These numbers are based off of the data from tv ratings.


No they aren’t. The only thing based on viewership is the 800k to 900k figure. Everything else is made up.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> You’re wrong bro. There are 2 million smarks in the US. Over 1.5 will still be all smarks.


I don't believe the data shows this to be true unless you're combining the people who watch Dynamite and NXT then you're correct on that that theres 1.5 million smarks in U.S


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> No they aren’t. The only thing based on viewership is the 800k to 900k figure. Everything else is made up.


Yes they are based off of data. 800-900,000 viewership means only smarks are watching so its not made up.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I don't believe the data shows this to be true unless you're combining the people who watch Dynamite and NXT then you're correct on that that theres 1.5 million smarks in U.S


This is circular logic. You say that there are 900k smarks and then use this as evidence that AEWs audience is comprised of smarks because it hovers around 900k.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> I don't believe the data shows this to be true unless you're combining the people who watch Dynamite and NXT then you're correct on that that theres 1.5 million smarks in U.S


No bro. There are 2 million smarks in America. RAW and Smackdown are so shit now that only the smarks are still watching the show. Casuals tuned out over 2 years ago.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> This is circular logic. You say that there are 900k smarks and then use this as evidence that AEWs audience is comprised of smarks because it hovers around 900k.


No I said they're viewership is 800-900,000 so that means only smarks are watching because if casuals were watching then they'd do higher numbers, but they aren't doing higher numbers because theres no casuals watching.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No I said they're viewership is 800-900,000 so that means only smarks are watching because if casuals were watching then they'd do higher numbers, but they aren't doing higher numbers because theres no casuals watching.


But that makes no sense. As far as you know AEW could have 700k hardcore fans and 200k casually watching. This makes sense and does way more to explain why the ratings fluctuate between 750k and little less than 1m.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> But that makes no sense. As far as you know AEW could have 700k hardcore fans and 200k casually watching. This makes sense and does way more to explain why the ratings fluctuate between 750k and little less than 1m.


How doesn't it make sense? Their viewership suggests only hardcores watching with no casuals at all watching. Their ratings fluctuates because people don't always want to tune in every week because maybe they were busy or they were watching something else. Thats whats going on.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> How doesn't it make sense? Their viewership suggests only hardcores watching with no casuals at all watching. Their ratings fluctuates because people don't always want to tune in every week because maybe they were busy or they were watching something else. Thats whats going on.


Sigh.

You do realize that you can’t determine who’s watching what based on the raw number alone. That’s why Nielsen accounts for demos separately from viewership. They understand this basic thing.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Sigh.
> 
> You do realize that you can’t determine who’s watching what based on the raw number alone. That’s why Nielsen accounts for demos separately from viewership. They understand this basic thing.



Of course I understand that but Im still right in what I said about only smarks watching AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

What @Ozell Gray is saying is antagonistic, but it makes a lot of sense. AEW and far that matter NXT are probably getting very few viewers that aren't hardcore wrestling fans. You don't always need hard proof evidence to be able to make a very educated guess. Hell at this stage of AEW's life span it's not even really a knock. They haven't even been on TV a year, the likelihood of them being on the radar of casual wrestling fans is low.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> What @Ozell Gray is saying is antagonistic, but it makes a lot of sense. AEW and far that matter NXT are probably getting very few viewers that aren't hardcore wrestling fans. You don't always need hard proof evidence to be able to make a very educated guess. Hell at this stage of AEW's life span it's not even really a knock. They haven't even been on TV a year, the likelihood of them being on the radar of casual wrestling fans is low.


The problem is that not only is it hard speculation, it makes no sense statistically. Saying there are NO casual viewers implies there isn’t at least one person who stops on the channel accidentally, or who has a morbid curiosity, or is a new viewer.

It’s insane, vague, and unrealistic to think 100% of the 900k viewership is made up of hardcore wrestling fans, especially when you have no data apart from raw viewership to “back it up.”


----------



## Britz94xD

Do we know the correlation of people who watch Dynamite and bought the Revolution PPV? Bet a large portion of the PPV audience doesn't even watch the TV show every single week.


----------



## bdon

A lot of AEW’s fan base doesn’t watch NXT given the demos.

As far as casuals go, my family and I are diehard AEW fans. I was a diehard wrestling fan growing up, mainly WCW, but I would switch back and forth on Monday’s.

I quit watching for 2 decades, outside of Sting VS Hogan in TNA and Sting’s WWE time.

Would I count as enough of a casual fan?


----------



## Bennu

Having a 930k is good for AEW in context but unfortunately it shows how far wrestling scene in the US has fallen due to WWE being the dominating force in the market for a really long time since WCW closed down while also providing a mediocre product that alienated audiences. 

As much as some people on here like to blame Daniel Bryan for WWE pushing "Indy darlings" and to blame people like him for the drop in ratings, at least Bryan during his feud with the Authority and the rise of the YES! Movement actually got ratings of around 4.0, it may not be the same heights as the Monday Night Wars but it was way better than what they're getting now. Ironically the drop happened around the time when Brock Lesnar was champion after he broke the streak, his reign got high ratings first but then the ratings saw huge drops after that.


----------



## kingfrass44

Bennu said:


> Having a 930k is good for AEW in context but unfortunately it shows how far wrestling scene in the US has fallen due to WWE being the dominating force in the market for a really long time since WCW closed down while also providing a mediocre product that alienated audiences.
> 
> As much as some people on here like to blame Daniel Bryan for WWE pushing "Indy darlings" and to blame people like him for the drop in ratings, at least Bryan during his feud with the Authority and the rise of the YES! Movement actually got ratings of around 4.0, it may not be the same heights as the Monday Night Wars but it was way better than what they're getting now. Ironically the drop happened around the time when Brock Lesnar was champion after he broke the streak, his reign got high ratings first but then the ratings saw huge drops after that.


information Mistake and And more excuses


----------



## Bennu

kingfrass44 said:


> information Mistake and And more excuses


what excuses, pro wrestling ratings is down in general. Wrestling isn't cool with casual audiences anymore. That's not excuses, it's facts. You're the one making excuses.

And what mistakes? That Daniel Bryan and the YES Movement actually got numbers and Lesnar being a part-time champion has hurt ratings in the long run?


----------



## validreasoning

bdon said:


> A lot of AEW’s fan base doesn’t watch NXT given the demos.


It's not really easy to determine that. Demos don't really give clear picture because prior to last Wednesday (where NXT ran a clip show of older content) the demos were not too dissimilar really. AEW and nxt were both doing around same in 50+ demo in recent weeks, AEW does better in 18-49, sometimes NXT did better in younger females.

But we cannot make a proper assessment based on demos alone. Too many variables like how many AEW watchers rewatch nxt on delay be it Hulu, wwe network, DVR or just watch clips online.

We know over 1/4 of the ~800,000 watching Dynamite switched over to nxt for the overrun of Charlotte vs Belair match Record Number Of Fans Switch To WWE NXT After AEW Dynamite For Charlotte Flair Vs. Bianca Belair End - Wrestling Inc.



> As far as casuals go, my family and I are diehard AEW fans. I was a diehard wrestling fan growing up, mainly WCW, but I would switch back and forth on Monday’s.
> 
> I quit watching for 2 decades, outside of Sting VS Hogan in TNA and Sting’s WWE time.
> 
> Would I count as enough of a casual fan?


You have an account on a hardcore wresting forum with 1,200 posts in 4 months so clearly not casual as of right now.

The casual, hardcore argument is a bit silly. The whole goal of any tv show is to turn casual viewers into hardcore. In 1995 raw and nitro had a combined 3 million viewers, by early 1999 it was 10 million watching weekly. That suggests 7 million became hardcore wrestling fans at least for a period of time in just over 3 years


----------



## Bennu

validreasoning said:


> It's not really easy to determine that. Demos don't really give clear picture because prior to last Wednesday (where NXT ran a clip show of older content) the demos were not too dissimilar really. AEW and nxt were both doing around same in 50+ demo in recent weeks, AEW does better in 18-49, sometimes NXT did better in younger females.
> 
> But we cannot make a proper assessment based on demos alone. Too many variables like how many AEW watchers rewatch nxt on delay be it Hulu, wwe network, DVR or just watch clips online.
> 
> We know over 1/4 of the ~800,000 watching Dynamite switched over to nxt for the overrun of Charlotte vs Belair match Record Number Of Fans Switch To WWE NXT After AEW Dynamite For Charlotte Flair Vs. Bianca Belair End - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> You have an account on a hardcore wresting forum with 1,200 posts in 4 months so clearly not casual as of right now.
> 
> The casual, hardcore argument is a bit silly. The whole goal of any tv show is to turn casual viewers into hardcore. In 1995 raw and nitro had a combined 3 million viewers, by early 1999 it was 10 million watching weekly. That suggests 7 million became hardcore wrestling fans at least for a period of time in just over 3 years


Sadly, these numbers WWE and AEW are getting are the best we're going to see in wrestling for the next coming years.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> The problem is that not only is it hard speculation, it makes no sense statistically. Saying there are NO casual viewers implies there isn’t at least one person who stops on the channel accidentally, or who has a morbid curiosity, or is a new viewer.
> 
> It’s insane, vague, and unrealistic to think 100% of the 900k viewership is made up of hardcore wrestling fans, especially when you have no data apart from raw viewership to “back it up.”


Obviously 100% is hyperbole, but thinking about the number it's probably closer to truth than what folk are willing to admit. Take wrestling out the equation. Stuff like Love and Hip Hop and The Real Housewives do similar overall numbers as AEW and good NXT days. How many casual viewers of Love and Hip Hop or The Real Housewives do you think exist? Not many because with the submillion views they do they're realistically only getting diehard fans of those properties to watch.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RapShepard said:


> Obviously 100% is hyperbole, but thinking about the number it's probably closer to truth than what folk are willing to admit. Take wrestling out the equation. Stuff like Love and Hip Hop and The Real Housewives do similar overall numbers as AEW and good NXT days. How many casual viewers of Love and Hip Hop or The Real Housewives do you think exist? Not many because with the submillion views they do they're realistically only getting diehard fans of those properties to watch.


Exactly these fanboys don't understand that. This is what I keot saying over and over again in my comments. Atleast you get it and know and get that the data says only hardcore fans watch AEW.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Obviously 100% is hyperbole, but thinking about the number it's probably closer to truth than what folk are willing to admit. Take wrestling out the equation. Stuff like Love and Hip Hop and The Real Housewives do similar overall numbers as AEW and good NXT days. How many casual viewers of Love and Hip Hop or The Real Housewives do you think exist? Not many because with the submillion views they do they're realistically only getting diehard fans of those properties to watch.


I’m just saying the amount of views has nothing to do with who’s watching. The Matt Hardy clip is at 2m views on YouTube in just a few days. The disparity between YouTube and TNT suggests to me there’s at least a casual interest in the show. It’s hard for me to buy that none of those extra eyes watch Dynamite on occasion.

Casual viewership has to do with individual commitment to watching the show, not how many people watch the show at any given moment. You have to look at things like volatility, user engagement, and retention to determine who is casual and who isn’t.


----------



## validreasoning

Bennu said:


> Sadly, these numbers WWE and AEW are getting are the best we're going to see in wrestling for the next coming years.


Perhaps but pro wrestling is still doing better numbers right now than lots of stuff on TV.

Back in October live Smackdown aired same night as live UFC on ESPN and tripled it in viewers UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Friday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 10.18.2019 | Showbuzz Daily

UFC remember thought FOX undervalued them and turned down the money that WWE accepted


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> I’m just saying the amount of views has nothing to do with who’s watching. The Matt Hardy clip is at 2m views on YouTube in just a few days. The disparity between YouTube and TNT suggests to me there’s at least a casual interest in the show. It’s hard for me to buy that none of those extra eyes watch Dynamite on occasion.
> 
> Casual viewership has to do with individual commitment to watching the show, not how many people watch the show consistently. You have to look at things like volatility, user engagement, and retention to determine who is casual and who isn’t.
> 
> It’s like video games. A 65 year old woman who plays Animal Crossing on occasion is going to look identical to a 30 year old man who owns everything ever made on the Nintendo Switch when you look at units sold. You have to look at their buying patterns and their investment into gaming to see who’s hardcore and who isn’t.


Yeah but you also have to take into account that YouTube views are global. It's how WWE can do 49 trillion gazillion views and still be in the mid 2s lol. They obviously get some casual viewers. But I find it a stretch to think that them or NXT are getting a significant amount of casual fans. 

Heck even staying on your gaming example I'd think it's similar to knowing what games are aimed and consumed by all gamers and knowing what games are aimed at and consumed by hardcore gamers.


----------



## validreasoning

Of course "smarks" was the word brought up earlier. That would be different from someone who watches religiously. You could watch every week and not be a smark

AEW and NXT both have approximately 300-350,000 viewers who are over 50. This segment don't usually go to live events, don't post online so you could assume that even though they are hardcore watchers they are not necessarily smarks. They certainly aren't the demo ROH, NJPW, NXT, PWG, Bullet Club etc have been aiming to attract or who attend and discuss those last 5-6 years. That seems to be mostly people in 18-35 age group.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Yeah but you also have to take into account that YouTube views are global. It's how WWE can do 49 trillion gazillion views and still be in the mid 2s lol. They obviously get some casual viewers. But I find it a stretch to think that them or NXT are getting a significant amount of casual fans.
> 
> Heck even staying on your gaming example I'd think it's similar to knowing what games are aimed and consumed by all gamers and knowing what games are aimed at and consumed by hardcore gamers.


The thing though is that something being aimed at a casual market doesn’t preclude a hardcore purchase. Just like that, viewership isn’t a good indicator of who’s watching what. I had a wii, and I’ve been playing video games since I could remember.

The other user said there was NO casual audience.He didn’t say a small casual audience. He’s making predictions he doesn’t have the data to make. It’s as simple as that.


----------



## Britz94xD

I think AEW are making wrestling cool again. 10 years ago you'd get bullied in high school for liking WWE. (I'm sure it's the same now).

When the casuals see they have the best stars, more creativity, better production values, blood and guts compared to WWE. More people will gradually watch the show. They are WCW in '95 right now.


----------



## The Wood

I can guarantee you that AEW is not cool lol.


----------



## Ozell Gray

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242120371089915904


----------



## EMGESP

Calling it now. This Wed will see AEW surpass 970K viewership and possibly hit 1 million.


----------



## kingfrass44

EMGESP said:


> Calling it now. This Wed will see AEW surpass 970K viewership and possibly hit 1 million.


This is your personal opinion without facts
not reach a million


----------



## El Hammerstone

Britz94xD said:


> I think AEW are making wrestling cool again. 10 years ago you'd get bullied in high school for liking WWE. (I'm sure it's the same now).
> 
> When the casuals see they have the best stars, more creativity, better production values, blood and guts compared to WWE. More people will gradually watch the show. They are WCW in '95 right now.


If they want to be cool, they cannot afford to parade the likes of Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, Sonny Kiss, and others out there; the signings of Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy will serve to push them further down the card, which is good, but over time AEW will need to phase these guys out completely and replace them with undercard guys that present themselves as real pro athletes.

Say what you want about undercard guys in the WWE, but if you told a non fan that someone like Cedric Alexander or Chad Gable was a professional athlete, they wouldn't bat an eye; now try convincing that same non fan that Marko Stunt is in that same category and watch them laugh and then see their jaw hit the floor when they realize you're serious. In fact, try envisioning Marko winning a bar fight against an average adult male, that alone seems preposterous; guys like him and the others I've mentioned are going to be a bad look for AEW to any new fans that the likes of Matt Hardy may draw in.

Anyhow, I digress.


----------



## IamMark

AEW 819k-0.34 #23
NXT 669k-0.20 #56


----------



## Ozell Gray

I knew it was going to go back down.


----------



## Oracle

Confirmed nobody gives a flying fck about Matt Hardy


----------



## bdon

Oracle said:


> Confirmed nobody gives a flying fck about Matt Hardy


Please God no more fucking teleporting!


----------



## AEWMoxley

This is what happens when the show revolves around The Elite for several consecutive weeks.

Would have been worse had it not been for the self isolation and Matt Hardy's buzz.


----------



## qntntgood

Oracle said:


> Confirmed nobody gives a flying fck about Matt Hardy


No it confirms that,fear and panic still sells for the mainstream media and that pro wrestling is the farthest thing on people's minds these days. And once all this blows over the numbers,the for wrestling might go back up.


----------



## fabi1982

Just shows the ones watching last week with no competition (of actual wrestling) went back to that said competition. Hardy doesnt move the needle, nor does Brodie...and having Mox on for half a minute doesnt help either.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Jericho was right, Jeff was the draw not Matt.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

looking at that list tells me the coronavirus/news is more important right now, and rightly so. VH1, TNT and Food Network are the only 3 networks with shows in the top 25. Good showing for AEW - TNT must be happy with that.


----------



## Oracle

qntntgood said:


> No it confirms that,fear and panic still sells for the mainstream media and that pro wrestling is the farthest thing on people's minds these days. And once all this blows over the numbers,the for wrestling might go back up.


932 last week if anything hardy was a ratings killer


----------



## AEW_19

Oracle said:


> 932 last week if anything hardy was a ratings killer


Once all this shit blows over, I expect AEW and NXT to settle around 700 - 900k again. One of the main draws of AEW is the hot crowd each week. Last week they broke up the silence with people at ringside but maybe that put off people this week and the commentary wasn't great either.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I didn't watch this weeks show and I assume many others didnt either. My tv hasn't flipped off of Fox News in days. Its that kind of world right now.


----------



## rbl85

WIth the same 18-49 demo, AEW would have been in the top 10 before the pandemie.


----------



## rbl85

Oracle said:


> 932 last week if anything hardy was a ratings killer


Nobody knew that Hardy would be on the show last week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Lmao, and people were saying Hardy was gonna move the needle because of YouTube views. Brodie Lee aint moving anything either. 

Last weeks rating was higher than usual purely due to NXT running a recap show. That 100k+ went back to NXT and now the rating is back to what it was few weeks ago.

We are still waiting for that game changing signing since Mox.


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> I didn't watch this weeks show and I assume many others didnt either. My tv hasn't flipped off of Fox News in days. Its that kind of world right now.


This isnt a good thing to do to yourself. Doesnt help watching hours of panic mode television. Just makes you more crazy.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Dark Emperor said:


> Lmao, and people were saying Hardy was gonna move the needle because of YouTube views. Brodie Lee aint moving anything either.
> 
> Last weeks rating was higher than usual purely due to NXT running a recap show. That 100k+ went back to NXT and now the rating is back to what it was few weeks ago.
> 
> We are still waiting for that game changing signing since Mox.


Very few would actually immediately change the ratings. CM Punk is free just waiting on a big enough carrot to be dangled in front of him. Add Punk and you are over a million every week, guaranteed. 

Brock Lesnar is free in June, show him the money, ratings would be up to that 1.2 range with Lesnar on board.

Those are the types of moves you make to get immediate bumps. That requires Kahn spending $40+ million a year on the two performers.


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> Lmao, and people were saying Hardy was gonna move the needle because of YouTube views. Brodie Lee aint moving anything either.
> 
> Last weeks rating was higher than usual purely due to NXT running a recap show. That 100k+ went back to NXT and now the rating is back to what it was few weeks ago.
> 
> We are still waiting for that game changing signing since Mox.


Anyone that thought they would be needle movers is crazy.

What they ARE going to be good at doing, once all this Covid-19 mess is done and over, is making for a solid midcard show. You won’t be forced to see as much Private Party, QT Marshall, Brandon Cutler, Mario Stunt, Orange Cassidy, etc. 

You’ll have a solid main event lineup that is 6-7 deep in Moxley, Jericho, Hangman, MJF, Cody, Pac, and Omega. Then you’ll have a solid midcard with Lance Archer, Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy Guevara, Jake Hager, Matt Hardy, Luchasaurus, and Brodie Lee.

All of that as your mid and main event carders with a host of tag teams like Santana/Ortiz, Jurassic Express, Butcher/Blade, Young Bucks, Best Friends (Chunky T can fuck off), Dark Order likely finding some credibility going forward (expect them to take the titles off Hanman/Omega), SCU, probably the Revival down the road somewhere.

That’s a helluva roster coming together, and you can begin to see where they’d have room for two shows a week on TNT, even if I would prefer a single 2 hour show that is more stacked top to bottom.


----------



## iarwain

You'd think with everyone staying home, the wrestling ratings would go up a bit.
I guess that's balanced by everyone watching the news and the lack of a live crowd.


----------



## Britz94xD

TKO Wrestling said:


> Very few would actually immediately change the ratings. CM Punk is free just waiting on a big enough carrot to be dangled in front of him. Add Punk and you are over a million every week, guaranteed.
> 
> Brock Lesnar is free in June, show him the money, ratings would be up to that 1.2 range with Lesnar on board.
> 
> Those are the types of moves you make to get immediate bumps. That requires Kahn spending $40+ million a year on the two performers.


It'll be interesting to see if Shahid Khan will whip out that big money. Would be a game changer if they were able to get Punk, Bryan and Lesnar this year.


----------



## Ozell Gray

819,000 viewers how low can Dynamite go? 

No truer words than this from 7:21-8:16


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

iarwain said:


> You'd think with everyone staying home, the wrestling ratings would go up a bit.
> I guess that's balanced by everyone watching the news and the lack of a live crowd.


I think we need to give up on the idea that more people are home, no sports etc.

Think - we have Youtube, Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Disney+, Apple TV etc.
we also have gaming - literally everyone has access to F2P games nowon everything from mobiles to consoles.
and if you look at the ratings table, it’s all the mid afternoon shows that are doing more ratings.

the fact is that either not a lot of people have a clue about AEW or that prowrestling is simply not what the culture wants right now.

If we consider the facts that WWE ratings have been dropping and the negative media surrounding pro wrestling, it’s gonna be very tough for AEW to start being mainstream. It’s an uphill battle - possibly a slow one or one that they’ll never beat.


----------



## RapShepard

Shit people are unforgiving on them ratings wise lol


----------



## EmbassyForever

Dayum surprisingly bad for both shows.
Hopefully things will pick up.


----------



## qntntgood

Oracle said:


> 932 last week if anything hardy was a ratings killer


Hardy is still a draw,even during his time in Tna.and there was allot fans,who wanted to see him in aew.


----------



## sideon

These are the ratings both shows were getting before the pandemic, people just need to accept the fact that AEW & NXT aren't going to be top priority shows for the casual wrestling fans. The only show that's suffered since the pandemic is RAW, SD on the other hand has either kept the same ratings or gotten slightly higher ratings.


----------



## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> Once all this shit blows over, I expect AEW and NXT to settle around 700 - 900k again. One of the main draws of AEW is the hot crowd each week. Last week they broke up the silence with people at ringside but maybe that put off people this week and the commentary wasn't great either.


What kind of self indulgent bullshit is this? The AEW crowd loves themselves but I didn't realize it was this much. They actually think they are one of the main draws?? Hahahahaha


----------



## AEW_19

Cult03 said:


> What kind of self indulgent bullshit is this? The AEW crowd loves themselves but I didn't realize it was this much. They actually think they are one of the main draws?? Hahahahaha


A raucous crowd adds to the show compared to a crowd that sit on their hands. Cry about it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

not shocking to see a bunch of news stuff ranking.

good number for the times

carry on


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> What kind of self indulgent bullshit is this? The AEW crowd loves themselves but I didn't realize it was this much. They actually think they are one of the main draws?? Hahahahaha


You don’t think the crowd is the most important character on any wrestling show..?


----------



## imthegame19

TKO Wrestling said:


> Very few would actually immediately change the ratings. CM Punk is free just waiting on a big enough carrot to be dangled in front of him. Add Punk and you are over a million every week, guaranteed.
> 
> Brock Lesnar is free in June, show him the money, ratings would be up to that 1.2 range with Lesnar on board.
> 
> Those are the types of moves you make to get immediate bumps. That requires Kahn spending $40+ million a year on the two performers.


Why would they spend 40 million to bump ratings from 900,000 to 1.2 million? That would make no sense. Honestly I think AEW roster is finally deep enough where they could start to draw over million viewers with big shows. 

Let's all keep in mind that last night show isn't what AEW wanted to do. It was thrown together based off wrestlers who they could get to travel. Whenever things are up and rolling again. Hopefully within the next couple of months. I think we will start to see the climb in ratings a little more. Right now everything kinda on pause and week to week. Based off who can travel, who's healthy and if they can even do a show. Which is why this is the first time they didn't announce any matches for next weeks show. Since they got burned the last few weeks and had to cancel bunch of stuff.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Anyone that thought they would be needle movers is crazy.
> 
> What they ARE going to be good at doing, once all this Covid-19 mess is done and over, is making for a solid midcard show. You won’t be forced to see as much Private Party, QT Marshall, Brandon Cutler, Mario Stunt, Orange Cassidy, etc.
> 
> You’ll have a solid main event lineup that is 6-7 deep in Moxley, Jericho, Hangman, MJF, Cody, Pac, and Omega. Then you’ll have a solid midcard with Lance Archer, Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy Guevara, Jake Hager, Matt Hardy, Luchasaurus, and Brodie Lee.
> 
> All of that as your mid and main event carders with a host of tag teams like Santana/Ortiz, Jurassic Express, Butcher/Blade, Young Bucks, Best Friends (Chunky T can fuck off), Dark Order likely finding some credibility going forward (expect them to take the titles off Hanman/Omega), SCU, probably the Revival down the road somewhere.
> 
> That’s a helluva roster coming together, and you can begin to see where they’d have room for two shows a week on TNT, even if I would prefer a single 2 hour show that is more stacked top to bottom.


Yes they have a strong roster and I think it could even get stronger. If they add Brian Cage and Revival this summer. Heck Jeff Cobb probably reconsidering being Independent right now as well. Since he's not working and doesn't have guaranteed downside contract to fall back on.


Once everything gets back to normal. I really think ratings will start to rise. Since there will be more quality segments/matches in more quarters. Which will lead to losing less viewers.

For now the show isn't going to be what we and they want it to be. So as fans we just gotta be happy they are doing shows and we are seeing new faces in the ring. Even if it's filling the show with squash matches with local indie talent or means Jimmy Havoc or QT Marshall gotta wrestle on Dynamite. Since half the roster couldn't travel to the show.


----------



## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> A raucous crowd adds to the show compared to a crowd that sit on their hands. Cry about it.


A raucous bunch of dorks self felating themselves trying to make the show about themselves? Nah


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> You don’t think the crowd is the most important character on any wrestling show..?


Nope, I've been to great shows in front of 20 people. Japanese crowds can be dead silent throughout the best shows. They think they are important but WWE is still the same show without them.


----------



## AEW_19

Cult03 said:


> A raucous bunch of dorks self felating themselves trying to make the show about themselves? Nah


You obviously don't watch the show regularly. I can think of one week where the crowd was chanting for something out with what was going on in the ring. Imagine enjoying a product on a weekly basis. A novel concept in wrestling.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Nope, I've been to great shows in front of 20 people. Japanese crowds can be dead silent throughout the best shows. They think they are important but WWE is still the same show without them.


I’ll disagree. A hot crowd can hide an otherwise shitty match.

Watch Cody for instance.

(Sorry, I had to)


----------



## Oracle

qntntgood said:


> Hardy is still a draw,even during his time in Tna.and there was allot fans,who wanted to see him in aew.


The evidence is right in front of you that he really isnt though. 

IWC has a big hard on for him but your average fan probably thinks matt hardy is a clown


----------



## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> You obviously don't watch the show regularly. I can think of one week where the crowd was chanting for something out with what was going on in the ring. Imagine enjoying a product on a weekly basis. A novel concept in wrestling.


I post a play by play positive and negative write up in the weekly thread every week (except the last two as they can't be fairly judged). I obviously watch this show every single week. I dunno man, lets have a chat to Jesus and Scooby Doo and see what their opinions are about AEW.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> You don’t think the crowd is the most important character on any wrestling show..?


They can make it better but they haven't done it in AEW yet. The crowd can be hot but having Scooby Doo in the front row kills it every single time


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> 819,000 viewers how low can Dynamite go?
> 
> No truer words than this from 7:21-8:16


It’s funny. Last week you said that their range is 700k-900k, now you post some guy who says the ratings are plummeting. . .

They got an 816k and a .01 dip in ratings.

So, what is it? Are their ratings dropping or are they stagnant?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> It’s funny. Last week you said that their range is 700k-900k, now you post some guy who says the ratings are plummeting. . .
> 
> They got an 816k and a .01 dip in ratings.
> 
> So, what is it? Are their ratings dropping or are they stagnant?


No I didn't. What I said was that their viewership is stagnant at 800-900,000 which is still true. You just can't handle the fact that wha the said is true in the video.

Which is still a drop when you go from 906,000 to 816,000 thats a drop.

They dropped this week but overall its still stagnant BUT they WILL DECLINE in the future BECAUSE STAGNATING viewership means people will eventually tune out.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> They can make it better but they haven't done it in AEW yet. The crowd can be hot but having Scooby Doo in the front row kills it every single time


It’s funny, because I know some people have mentioned the Jesus guy and Scooby Doo. I have yet to notice them, but I’m more focused on the match and the wrestlers visually, and the crowd as an orator to convey what JR and Schiavonna can not.


----------



## AEW_19

Cult03 said:


> I post a play by play positive and negative write up in the weekly thread every week (except the last two as they can't be fairly judged). I obviously watch this show every single week. I dunno man, lets have a chat to Jesus and Scooby Doo and see what their opinions are about AEW.


That's some crowd.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> No I didn't. What I said was that their viewership is stagnant at 800-900,000 which is still true. You just can't handle the fact that wha the said is true in the video.
> 
> Which is still a drop when you go from 906,000 to 816,000 thats a drop.
> 
> They dropped this week but overall its still stagnant BUT they WILL DECLINE in the future BECAUSE STAGNATING viewership means people will eventually tune out.


So is it stagnant or is the audience plummeting? Which negative narrative do you want to cling to?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> So is it stagnant or is the audience plummeting? Which negative narrative do you want to cling to?


I told you that their tv ratings are stagnant and but you seem to not be able to see that.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I told you that their tv ratings are stagnant and but you seem to not be able to see that.


Then what’s the point of talking about AEW being on the decline then?

My point here is you’re trying to have two contradictory narratives.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Then what’s the point of talking about AEW being on the decline then?
> 
> My point here is you’re trying to have two contradictory narratives.


I didn't say they're on a decline I said its stagnating and that leads to a decline in the future. Im not trying to prove "two contradictory" narratives because I've stood by what I said which is their tv ratings are stagnant.


----------



## Erik.

I haven't even watched AEW this week. 

Far more important things in the world than wrestling.


----------



## fabi1982

MJF said:


> I haven't even watched AEW this week.
> 
> Far more important things in the world than wrestling.


Why does it keep you from watching wrestling? As long as you are no medical worker you should use every possibility to not watch the news or read articles about corona. That doesn’t change anything on the situation besides you getting more panic...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Why does it keep you from watching wrestling? As long as you are no medical worker you should use every possibility to not watch the news or read articles about corona. That doesn’t change anything on the situation besides you getting more panic...


so why watch the news at all?


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> so why watch the news at all?


Even better. Just check the numbers once a day (best in the evening) to be on track and read some proper news. Thats what I do and it helps not to overly panic. All you can do is stay inside and try to relax.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Even better. Just check the numbers once a day (best in the evening) to be on track and read some proper news. Thats what I do and it helps not to overly panic. All you can do is stay inside and try to relax.


that might be you, but you can see from those ratings that you may be part of a minority in this thinking.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Why does it keep you from watching wrestling? As long as you are no medical worker you should use every possibility to not watch the news or read articles about corona. That doesn’t change anything on the situation besides you getting more panic...


Because I have more important things in my life than to watch wrestling when it's on? 

Imagine that.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> that might be you, but you can see from those ratings that you may be part of a minority in this thinking.


Which is sad, because no one needs 12h of news, what changes actually? Besides a panic spike?


----------



## fabi1982

MJF said:


> Because I have more important things in my life than to watch wrestling when it's on?
> 
> Imagine that.


Thats totally fine. Sounded like you were just watching news instead. But then I didnt say anything


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> It’s funny, because I know some people have mentioned the Jesus guy and Scooby Doo. I have yet to notice them, but I’m more focused on the match and the wrestlers visually, and the crowd as an orator to convey what JR and Schiavonna can not.


Doesn't that prove that they aren't that important then? They play a part but not a very important part


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Doesn't that prove that they aren't that important then? They play a part but not a very important part


They play as important a part as commentary, IMO. Silence kills a match for me, even if the commentary and wrestling is top notch. That Omega vs Sammy match was fucking great, but it is lost in translation without the crowd playing its part. The lack of a crowd was even more apparent in the Darby/Kip match, which I enjoyed but was definitely missing something.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't say they're on a decline I said its stagnating and that leads to a decline in the future. Im not trying to prove "two contradictory" narratives because I've stood by what I said which is their tv ratings are stagnant.


The guy you cited was talking about AEW plummeting.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> They play as important a part as commentary, IMO. Silence kills a match for me, even if the commentary and wrestling is top notch. That Omega vs Sammy match was fucking great, but it is lost in translation without the crowd playing its part. The lack of a crowd was even more apparent in the Darby/Kip match, which I enjoyed but was definitely missing something.


Think of it like a movie. Imagine someone in a romantic comedy walking around New York city with millions around them. Now imagine Will Smith walking around an empty city with nobody around (I Am Legend). It can be done if done well. Now I'd say imagining Will Smith walking around a city with no buildings and no people. That's wrestling without commentary and a crowd. It wouldn't be as good. The crowd plays a supporting cast role. 

Now imagine an extra trying to make themselves stand out when it's not their place? A thousand white walkers marching toward Westoros and one of them is dressed like Scooby Doo. The crowd needs to realize it isn't about them and they're not that important. If a few of the dorks in the crowd weren't there, somebody else would take their spot anyway. I personally love the way Japanese crowds act. Still respectful to the art and popping at the right times. 

It's a television show. Wrestling crowds.... PLAY YOUR PART FOR FUCKS SAKE.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So it's a drop but it's still pretty good. Don't get why people are dissapointed with it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> The guy you cited was talking about AEW plummeting.


Doesn't matter and it doesn't change the fact that hes correct in what he said just like I am.


----------



## Pippen94

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So it's a drop but it's still pretty good. Don't get why people are dissapointed with it.


They're not really - just ppl trolling


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> Doesn't matter and it doesn't change the fact that hes correct in what he said just like I am.


Stagnant, maybe.(I’d call it stable)Declining no. If AEWwas declining its ratings would be in the .10s by now.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Stagnant, maybe.(I’d call it stable)Declining no. If AEWwas declining its ratings would be in the .10s by now.


Its not stable or declining but its stagnant which isn't good either.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Think of it like a movie. Imagine someone in a romantic comedy walking around New York city with millions around them. Now imagine Will Smith walking around an empty city with nobody around (I Am Legend). It can be done if done well. Now I'd say imagining Will Smith walking around a city with no buildings and no people. That's wrestling without commentary and a crowd. It wouldn't be as good. The crowd plays a supporting cast role.
> 
> Now imagine an extra trying to make themselves stand out when it's not their place? A thousand white walkers marching toward Westoros and one of them is dressed like Scooby Doo. The crowd needs to realize it isn't about them and they're not that important. If a few of the dorks in the crowd weren't there, somebody else would take their spot anyway. I personally love the way Japanese crowds act. *Still respectful to the art and popping at the right times.
> 
> It's a television show. Wrestling crowds.... PLAY YOUR PART FOR FUCKS SAKE.*


Ok, I see your point, and that is absolutely a fair criticism. I haven’t noticed the Jesus fan or Scooby-Doo, but I didn’t like the sound of it when I heard about it.

But again, I don’t guess I have noticed the crowd trying to get themselves over too much as my eyes never leave the ring. Audibly, I think they’re very reminiscent of a Nitro crowd with sprinkles of the indie garbage chants.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> I knew it was going to go back down.


Pretty predictable. I can’t believe there were people thinking it was going to hit 1 million. AEW is _not_ making new fans. We’ll see if they continue to lose rhem



qntntgood said:


> No it confirms that,fear and panic still sells for the mainstream media and that pro wrestling is the farthest thing on people's minds these days. And once all this blows over the numbers,the for wrestling might go back up.


That’s just a lie. NXT was actually up this week. And AEW’s rating is far from the worst it has ever been. Stop lying to excuse the lack of growth.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Pretty predictable. I can’t believe there were people thinking it was going to hit 1 million. AEW is _not_ making new fans. We’ll see if they continue to lose rhem
> 
> 
> 
> That’s just a lie. NXT was actually up this week. And AEW’s rating is far from the worst it has ever been. Stop lying to excuse the lack of growth.


Actually demo for aew was about same as week before. Prediction you made that nxt would win this war has been completely wrong


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Actually demo for aew was about same as week before. Prediction you made that nxt would win this war has been completely wrong


BUT THE 10% MARGINS!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> Actually demo for aew was about same as week before. Prediction you made that nxt would win this war has been completely wrong


He never predicted this or AEW being off tv by 2020


----------



## The Wood

AEW_19 said:


> A raucous crowd adds to the show compared to a crowd that sit on their hands. Cry about it.


That’s not what anybody said.


----------



## AEW_19

The Wood said:


> That’s not what anybody said.


The point was that people would prefer to tune in to AEW due to a raucous crowd compared to NXT. A loud crowd does draw people in.


----------



## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> The point was that people would prefer to tune in to AEW due to a raucous crowd compared to NXT. A loud crowd does draw people in.


No it doesn't. A good product draws people in. I'd rather watch a stadium with 10k people in it watching rugby league over a 70k stadium watching boring soccer. The crowd, the fans mean absolutely nothing to my viewing experience.


----------



## The Wood

AEW_19 said:


> The point was that people would prefer to tune in to AEW due to a raucous crowd compared to NXT. A loud crowd does draw people in.


Oh, well maybe you should make that point instead of creating straw-men that attack claims people don't make? 

A good crowd is great. Hot crowds are awesome. But that doesn't mean a hot crowd of wankers at a shitty show is going to be more rewarding than a quieter crowd at a great show. AEW crowds are fucking annoying, by the way. Most smark audiences are. The whole "modern WrestleMania crowd." Fucking yuck. The chants they come out with, "This is awesome!", all the stuff to make themselves feel included. It highlights why you can't trust them -- they will cheer anything that pats them on the back for "getting it." So you can take that hot crowd in a modern era thing and toss that out, because it makes me _less_ likely to want to go to a show knowing it is going to be filled with such self-congratulatory losers.

I think you could very easily make the case that AEW's crowd is detrimental to it. You've got to start somewhere, but you've got to draw new fans to drown out those ones. You need people to genuinely emotionally react to the product. 

By the way, if you think an AEW crowd is hot, you should listen to something from when wrestling was good. Holy shit. There's no comparison between that and a few thousand people singing off-key to Judas or throwing out general "yays!" for the Bucks.


----------



## Pippen94

Nxt has a takeover card tomorrow - interesting to see result


----------



## rbl85

AEW_19 said:


> The point was that people would prefer to tune in to AEW due to a raucous crowd compared to NXT. A loud crowd does draw people in.


It feels more important with a big crowd.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The outlook for the ratings for the foreseeable future isn't very bright. 

Given the lack of stars they had to begin with, this whole coronavirus situation has made it worse. A guy like Moxley, who lives in Vegas, and is probably not eager to travel much given his recent MRSA infection, probably won't be able to appear for more than a minute on each episode, if at all, which isn't enough to have any effect on even a single quarter hour, let alone the entire show. Most of his segments have been pre-recorded, and will probably continue to be for the time being.

Even a guy like Pac, who was turning into one of their few consistent draws, won't be able to appear on the show.

At least they still have Jericho. Matt Hardy has generated some buzz - we'll see how long he can keep that going.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> The outlook for the ratings for the foreseeable future isn't very bright.
> 
> Given the lack of stars they had to begin with, this whole coronavirus situation has made it worse. A guy like Moxley, who lives in Vegas, and is probably not eager to travel much given his recent MRSA infection, probably won't be able to appear for more than a minute on each episode, if at all, which isn't enough to have any effect on even a single quarter hour, let alone the entire show. Most of his segments have been pre-recorded, and will probably continue to be for the time being.
> 
> Even a guy like Pac, who was turning into one of their few consistent draws, won't be able to appear on the show.
> 
> At least they still have Jericho. Matt Hardy has generated some buzz - we'll see how long he can keep that going.


They already filmed Moxley/Hager title match last week(Which JR let it slip out saying he heard it was very good). To probably either air this week or next week. Moxley also wrestling on Dark tonight(Faboo Andre). So they likely filmed a few weeks of Moxley content last Tuesday/Wednesday.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> They already filmed Moxley/Hager title match last week(Which JR let it slip out saying he heard it was very good). To probably either air this week or next week. Moxley also wrestling on Dark tonight(Faboo Andre). So they likely filmed a few weeks of Moxley content last Tuesday/Wednesday.


Interesting, I didn't know that.

Even so, outside of the Hager match, I don't see what lengthy content they could have filmed. It will probably be 1 minute long segments.

I guess they will start the build to DON soon with either Jericho or MJF as his opponent. Or maybe the Hager match has no winner, and they do Moxley vs Hager vs Jericho triple threat to stack the odds against him.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> Interesting, I didn't know that.
> 
> Even so, outside of the Hager match, I don't see what lengthy content they could have filmed. It will probably be 1 minute long segments.
> 
> I guess they will start the build to DON soon with either Jericho or MJF as his opponent. Or maybe the Hager match has no winner, and they do Moxley vs Hager vs Jericho triple threat to stack the odds against him.


Moxley still able to travel from Vegas now. But guys in LA, New York and Chicago area can't. I wouldn't be surprised if Moxley still there live this week to film more stuff. With MJF from New York area. I'm not sure if he's allowed to travel to the shows right now.


I think last week they just wanted to make sure they had some big stuff taped just incase. Since you can still do promos through stuff like Skype to set up matches. Even if you aren't there.

I can see them filming whole TNT title tournament in advance as well. So incase they have to stop doing shows for a few weeks or month. They got some original content to mix in with archive matches like WWE doing on Raw/Smackdown every week. I think after they had to cancel bunch of matches last week. They want to protect themselves and start having a lot of big content pre taped.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

They should have done that the first week when they had a lot more people. Unfortunately they got a bit cocky and expected they could still do everything like they had the prior week. They announced several matches and they only got to one of them and that's because it was film the previous week. Hopefully they tape as much matches as they can and film a ton of promos. WWE has a built in advantage because most of the talent live in the Orlando/Tampa area. AEW needs to build their own PC with a small arena in it and encourage their guys to move to the Jax area to be close to home base.


----------



## imthegame19

Due to the coronavirus pandemic, AEW has changed their Dynamite and Dark taping schedule again, moving them out of Daily's Place in Jacksonville, FL, to an undisclosed location.
It is believed they will be taping matches throughout Tuesday and Wednesday for this week's Dynamite and Dark as well as future shows.
The company is attempting to keep the new location private because they don't want fans showing up and waiting in the parking lot and/or looking for autographs. The location is believed to be in the Southeast where they are doing a significant amount of taping today.









AEW filming Dynamite & Dark in undisclosed location


Due to the coronavirus pandemic, AEW has changed their Dynamite and Dark taping schedule again, moving them out of Daily's Place in Jacksonville, FL, to an




www.f4wonline.com






My guess stuff they taped last week will air tomorrow from Jacksonville. While they will tape all the shows through April tonight and tomorrow.


----------



## qntntgood

imthegame19 said:


> Due to the coronavirus pandemic, AEW has changed their Dynamite and Dark taping schedule again, moving them out of Daily's Place in Jacksonville, FL, to an undisclosed location.
> It is believed they will be taping matches throughout Tuesday and Wednesday for this week's Dynamite and Dark as well as future shows.
> The company is attempting to keep the new location private because they don't want fans showing up and waiting in the parking lot and/or looking for autographs. The location is believed to be in the Southeast where they are doing a significant amount of taping today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW filming Dynamite & Dark in undisclosed location
> 
> 
> Due to the coronavirus pandemic, AEW has changed their Dynamite and Dark taping schedule again, moving them out of Daily's Place in Jacksonville, FL, to an
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.f4wonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess stuff they taped last week will air tomorrow from Jacksonville. While they will tape all the shows through April tonight and tomorrow.


Hopefully they find away to make this interesting,because raw just dropped below 2 million.the wwe just pulled 1.6 million viewers,their since the 90's.


----------



## Ozell Gray

qntntgood said:


> Hopefully they find away to make this interesting,because raw just dropped below 2 million.the wwe just pulled 1.6 million viewers,their since the 90's.


No it didn't drop to 1.6 million. It dropped to 1.92 million

They're not going to challenge WWE ever so let it goal ready. AEW won't make anything interesting.


----------



## qntntgood

Ozell Gray said:


> No it didn't drop to 1.6 million. It dropped to 1.92 million
> 
> They're not going to challenge WWE ever so let it goal ready. AEW won't make anything interesting.


It's but it proved my point,pro wrestling is the farthest thing on people's mind.and starting to agree, with rybac.shut down for a little bit,and wait for all of this blow over.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, if Raw got 1.92 million, AEW is fuuuuuuuuucked. Plus that Matt Hardy stuff was a laughing stock, so the lame-duck shows are even lamer.


----------



## Ozell Gray

qntntgood said:


> It's but it proved my point,pro wrestling is the farthest thing on people's mind.and starting to agree, with rybac.shut down for a little bit,and wait for all of this blow over.


I agree (most) people don't care about pro wrestling. My point was that people need to let this idea of AEW someday challenging WWE go because they'll never become competition to WWE ever. They'll remain a small company but they'll eventually go the way of TNA (smaller network with even less viewers than they already get).


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> Lol, if Raw got 1.92 million, AEW is fuuuuuuuuucked. Plus that Matt Hardy stuff was a laughing stock, so the lame-duck shows are even lamer.


Yep this means AEW's viewership will be even worse considering they already have bad viewership numbers.


----------



## AEW_19

qntntgood said:


> Hopefully they find away to make this interesting,because raw just dropped below 2 million.the wwe just pulled 1.6 million viewers,their since the 90's.


The current circumstances are affecting both WWE and AEW. I don't like the WWE product but I expect the numbers to increase when all this shit blows over.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> Yep this means AEW's viewership will be even worse considering they already have bad viewership numbers.


And that viewership is far less stable than any of the WWE's products. People are still working out whether they like this shit. 



AEW_19 said:


> The current circumstances are affecting both WWE and AEW. I don't like the WWE product but I expect the numbers to increase when all this shit blows over.


There is no evidence for this. More shameless Meltzer apologetics, honestly. Has any other show been hit like this? There's this idea that people are all of a sudden watching the news and are glued to it and won't switch over for anything. It's antiquated and illogical. People are likely consuming MORE entertainment, not less. Wrestling is effected because it is not good. People would rather watch Ozark or Tiger King or pornography. Fuck, a few weeks ago, AEW was beaten by a fucking Paddington cartoon. Yes, people's routines are disrupted, but many of them literally cannot leave the house. The idea that they are watching coronavirus updates around the clock just doesn't hold water. 

The Raw drop is only about 4%, it just seems steeper because of that magic 2 million line. AEW is probably going to be way more effected though.


----------



## qntntgood

Ozell Gray said:


> I agree (most) people don't care about pro wrestling. My point was that people need to let this idea of AEW someday challenging WWE go because they'll never become competition to WWE ever. They'll remain a small company but they'll eventually go the way of TNA (smaller network with even less viewers than they already get).


Tna did see an increase in the ratings,but Dixie Carter, hulk hogan and bischoff fucked it up for them and spike got tired of Dixie shit.


----------



## The Wood

I'm curious to see the rating for this week. Last week's show was awful, but that can create a morbid curiosity. Like, "Hey Barry, check out this fucking bullshit." "No way!" A big rating won't necessarily mean good things for AEW. It could actually be a bit of a fever spike before the sickness sets in. But it could also have a immediate "Fuck this shit" effect. It's going to be fun to watch this car wreck unfold, lol.

I think people are a bit naive about AEW's security on TNT. They're doing fine numbers for now. What people have always been worried about is where they are going and whether they wanted wrestling numbers or something that performs a little better than some other things. But if they viewership has the bottom fall out of it (my prediction for their floor is 420k), then TNT will bin them in a second. Once that happens, they are officially TNA'd. Jericho and Mox will wait out their contracts and go back to Vince. JR will probably ask for a release (I've sensed that coming anyway). It'll be interesting to see what happens with The Elite and how long the Khans keep pumping money into it before they call it a day.


----------



## qntntgood

The Wood said:


> And that viewership is far less stable than any of the WWE's products. People are still working out whether they like this shit.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no evidence for this. More shameless Meltzer apologetics, honestly. Has any other show been hit like this? There's this idea that people are all of a sudden watching the news and are glued to it and won't switch over for anything. It's antiquated and illogical. People are likely consuming MORE entertainment, not less. Wrestling is effected because it is not good. People would rather watch Ozark or Tiger King or pornography. Fuck, a few weeks ago, AEW was beaten by a fucking Paddington cartoon. Yes, people's routines are disrupted, but many of them literally cannot leave the house. The idea that they are watching coronavirus updates around the clock just doesn't hold water.
> 
> The Raw drop is only about 4%, it just seems steeper because of that magic 2 million line. AEW is probably going to be way more effected though.


Okay so are you saying people aren't worried,because before this happened. the ratings for nightly news were in toilet,fear and panic sales and for the mainstream media this is a gold mine.


----------



## bdon

Put your money where you mouth is. Quit straddling the fucking fence and make a goddamn prediction. At least Cornette had the balls to say something with his fucking chest.


----------



## Ozell Gray

qntntgood said:


> Tna did see an increase in the ratings,but Dixie Carter, hulk hogan and bischoff fucked it up for them and spike got tired of Dixie shit.


I know TNA saw an increase in tv ratings. When I said they'll eventually turn into TNA I meant going from a big network to smaller ones. TNA left Spike because Dixie Carter wanted Spiket o pay more money even though Spike were already paying TNA $30 million a year. Spike couldn't afford her asking price so she moved TNA to Destination America. AEW won't last long on TNT because their horrible tv ratings and because TNT are known for cancelling shows after 1-3 years time with AEW's viewership (800-900,000) so AEW won't be on TNT in the future. This is a funny trainwreck thats going to happen like @The Wood said.


----------



## The Wood

qntntgood said:


> Okay so are you saying people aren't worried,because before this happened. the ratings for nightly news were in toilet,fear and panic sales and for the mainstream media this is a gold mine.


No, I didn't say that people aren't worried. I'm saying that they aren't glued to the cable television news 24/7. Yes, more people who wouldn't watch are, but those people weren't watching wrestling. Those people were chopping fucking carrots or something.

The news doing well doesn't mean that other things have to do badly. This is something Meltzer says about AEW because he wants people to think they're doing better than they are. It's been that way from the start. It's why he spins $45 million a year for at least three hours of weekly content to be them "winning." It's why he says that they are doing better numbers on PPV than ECW did, when ECW only had terrestrial PPV in the United States and did better then than AEW is doing even with the benefit of the internet now. 

Last week, AEW did do about as well as anything not about tattoos in the demo rating last week, but that demo rating wasn't hurt by the news (it was only down 0.01). Other things were up and the actual viewership numbers for everything else in the top 50 except Summer House was at or above 819k. Stop using this as an excuse.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Put your money where you mouth is. Quit straddling the fucking fence and make a goddamn prediction. At least Cornette had the balls to say something with his fucking chest.


I have made a prediction. I predicted that NXT would be beating them by about WrestleMania time. It's looking like that won't be the case, so I'm likely going to be wrong about that. I predicted that they're not going to be able to get the numbers for giant TV rights, and I was right about that.

I don't think they'll see the end of their TNT contract. I'll say that much. If they get to the end of it, then that is a prediction I'll have gotten wrong. I think their numbers are going to dip too much at some point, WWE are going to turn up the gas on them, and they're going to implode. This virus throws everything into chaos, so it could happen sooner or it could happen later. A big part of them imploding, in my opinion, has to do with their perception against NXT. So it's up to WWE to boost that, but it's really hard with the virus because everything sucks.

I imagine you want a cut-off time? If AEW is still on TNT after Double or Nothing next year, I will be very surprised.

Also, this has got nothing to do with ratings or buyrates, lol, but JR won't be at the commentary desk by the end of the year. He'll either be gone or will be paid to stay at home.


----------



## Pippen94

A lot of pressure on nxt to win this week running it's takeover show!


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> A lot of pressure on nxt to win this week running it's takeover show!


Not really. People need to stop basing winning off who else watches it and base it off which show was the best. NXT has had the better show and lost in the ratings, AEW has had the better show and barely won. People's viewing habits don't matter in 2020 during a pandemic.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Not really. People need to stop basing winning off who else watches it and base it off which show was the best. NXT has had the better show and lost in the ratings, AEW has had the better show and barely won. People's viewing habits don't matter in 2020 during a pandemic.


If aew ran its ppv on Wednesday you wouldn't be saying that. This is test for nxt.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> If aew ran its ppv on Wednesday you wouldn't be saying that. This is test for nxt.


I've literally said AEW shouldn't be judged on their ratings either. I've said this for months. These threads show that we shouldn't trust the opinions and habits of wrestling fans


----------



## The Wood

Ratings are old hat in 2020 at the best of times. TV is dying. No one except wrestling fans seem to really care. It’s a hangover from the Monday Night Wars where they did matter.


----------



## validreasoning

If TNT signed a four or five year deal with AEW they will have to see that out.

There might be get out clause after a year or 18 months but if they last that long (which looks obvious at this stage) they will see out full time period.

What is usually the case if either voids the deal they would have to pay remaining monies owed.


Pippen94 said:


> A lot of pressure on nxt to win this week running it's takeover show!


Nxt are not running a takeover show.

One of the opening card matches that was scheduled for Takeover ie Lee vs Priest vs Dijakovic is taking place not the whole card.


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> If TNT signed a four or five year deal with AEW they will have to see that out.
> 
> There might be get out clause after a year or 18 months but if they last that long (which looks obvious at this stage) they will see out full time period.
> 
> What is usually the case if either voids the deal they would have to pay remaining monies owed.
> 
> 
> Nxt are not running a takeover show.
> 
> One of the opening card matches that was scheduled for Takeover ie Lee vs Priest vs Dijakovic is taking place not the whole card.


You’re right. I think they’ll use that out clause. I should be more clear: I mean in their slot. I can see them moving AEW to 11pm on a Friday or some bullshit like that too.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I have made a prediction. I predicted that NXT would be beating them by about WrestleMania time. It's looking like that won't be the case, so I'm likely going to be wrong about that. I predicted that they're not going to be able to get the numbers for giant TV rights, and I was right about that.
> 
> I don't think they'll see the end of their TNT contract. I'll say that much. If they get to the end of it, then that is a prediction I'll have gotten wrong. I think their numbers are going to dip too much at some point, WWE are going to turn up the gas on them, and they're going to implode. This virus throws everything into chaos, so it could happen sooner or it could happen later. A big part of them imploding, in my opinion, has to do with their perception against NXT. So it's up to WWE to boost that, but it's really hard with the virus because everything sucks.
> 
> I imagine you want a cut-off time? If AEW is still on TNT after Double or Nothing next year, I will be very surprised.
> 
> Also, this has got nothing to do with ratings or buyrates, lol, but JR won't be at the commentary desk by the end of the year. He'll either be gone or will be paid to stay at home.


Well, there we go.

HE SAID OFF TNT BY DOUBLE OR NOTHING OF NEXT YEAR! Someone screenshot this, so we can slap this fool with his ignorance this time next year.

After DoN next year, will you please shut the fuck up..? After NXT has failed to even get close prior to Mania, will you at least fucking relent a goddamn little?

As for JR, I don’t think he was ever expected to last long in the booth. He was signed for his mind at this point and the stature he brings to the table. He loves AEW, openly talks about how Cassidy is over, moves merchandise, etc, which is all he cares about: do you know how to make money?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Well, there we go.
> 
> HE SAID OFF TNT BY DOUBLE OR NOTHING OF NEXT YEAR! Someone screenshot this, so we can slap this fool with his ignorance this time next year.
> 
> After DoN next year, will you please shut the fuck up..? After NXT has failed to even get close prior to Mania, will you at least fucking relent a goddamn little?
> 
> As for JR, I don’t think he was ever expected to last long in the booth. He was signed for his mind at this point and the stature he brings to the table. He loves AEW, openly talks about how Cassidy is over, moves merchandise, etc, which is all he cares about: do you know how to make money?


Out of its slot*. I clarified that. And no, I won’t relent. I’ll call out whatever bullshit they do. When they do good stuff, I’ll point that out too.

JR clearly hates 80% of what he’s calling.


----------



## bdon

I posted before I’d made it that far.

Yeah, of course you won’t relent, because you can’t see past the end of your fucking nose to accept that not everything you like and dislike is accepted by the masses. You speak to hear yourself talk, can not accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and never shut the fuck up.

You bitch and complain more than last my 5 fucking girlfriends.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I posted before I’d made it that far.
> 
> Yeah, of course you won’t relent, because you can’t see past the end of your fucking nose to accept that not everything you like and dislike is accepted by the masses. You speak to hear yourself talk, can not accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and never shut the fuck up.
> 
> You bitch and complain more than last my 5 fucking girlfriends.


No, I can accept quite readily that people have poor taste.


----------



## Bosnian21

Edit: wrong thread


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I'm curious to see the rating for this week. Last week's show was awful, but that can create a morbid curiosity. Like, "Hey Barry, check out this fucking bullshit." "No way!" A big rating won't necessarily mean good things for AEW. It could actually be a bit of a fever spike before the sickness sets in. But it could also have a immediate "Fuck this shit" effect. It's going to be fun to watch this car wreck unfold, lol.
> 
> I think people are a bit naive about AEW's security on TNT. They're doing fine numbers for now. What people have always been worried about is where they are going and whether they wanted wrestling numbers or something that performs a little better than some other things. But if they viewership has the bottom fall out of it (my prediction for their floor is 420k), then TNT will bin them in a second. Once that happens, they are officially TNA'd. Jericho and Mox will wait out their contracts and go back to Vince. JR will probably ask for a release (I've sensed that coming anyway). It'll be interesting to see what happens with The Elite and how long the Khans keep pumping money into it before they call it a day.


They got a TV deal after a few months. I don't think they regret their investment


----------



## Pippen94

Aew out did wwe again with a fun & creative show given the situation. Will this be reflected in ratings?


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> A lot of pressure on nxt to win this week running it's takeover show!


That wasn't a Takeover show but you created a weird narrative where people who refuse to watch NXT will believe AEW defeated NXT when they put on a Takeover show, so congratulations.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> That wasn't a Takeover show but you created a weird narrative where people who refuse to watch NXT will believe AEW defeated NXT when they put on a Takeover show, so congratulations.


Good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Guessing 750 - 810

good show - but News is where the ratings are at these days

as long as they keep 0.34 - 0.36 in the key demo, then all is solid


----------



## Aedubya

Predict 0.76

Absolute panic stations from the usual thread wreckers on here


----------



## rbl85

The epidemic is getting worst and worst in the US so more and more people are going to watch the news channels.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## AEW_19

OMG! AEW is Dead Nooooooooooo! 😲. That should cover it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

No surprise there. Not much star power on the show last night.


----------



## qntntgood

Aew. Scores 685 in the ratings, at this point they should take break until all this blows over and nxt failed to even rank.


----------



## qntntgood

AEW_19 said:


> OMG! AEW is Dead Nooooooooooo! 😲. That should cover it.


 Nxt is dead,stick a fork in them there done.


----------



## IamMark

NXT #74 590k-0.15


----------



## AEW_19

qntntgood said:


> Nxt is dead,stick a fork in them there done.


First week back with crowds I predict.

AEW - 936k
NXT - 787K

Don't quote me on that 😂


----------



## Erik.

Looking at the ratings for both companies from Raw all the way through - it looks like people are social distancing themselves from wrestling in general.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Aew. Scores 685 in the ratings, at this point they should take break until all this blows over and nxt failed to even rank.


Yeah but maybe TNT does not want them to take a break.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Who the fuck is gonna watch my 600lb life


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but maybe TNT does not want them to take a break.


After that rating they might reconsider. That is a scary number.


----------



## qntntgood

AEW_19 said:


> First week back with crowds I predict.
> 
> AEW - 936k
> NXT - 787K
> 
> Don't quote me on that 😂


I won't argue that,but at the same time aew will have more time to rest and really plan things out.


----------



## RiverFenix

optikk sucks said:


> Who the fuck is gonna watch my 600lb life


Folks who weight 300+lbs and want to feel good about themselves.


----------



## Ozell Gray

But But But AEW are supposed to be better than WWE and its supposed to be a revolution. 😂 Looks like I was right again their stagnant viewership would only decline because when its stagnant it will only go down in the future and anyone in the tv industry will tell you that.

Come to grips smarks the garbage you think is good isn't good and it shows with the horrible tv ratings. Looks like smarks don't know what they're talking about as usual.


----------



## Erik.

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> After that rating they might reconsider. That is a scary number.


You honestly believe they're looking at that number with everything that's going on in the world and really worrying?

These are unprecedented times mate.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Who the fuck is gonna watch my 600lb life



My mom loves to watch that shit. Dont ask me why. Shit is depressing.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> After that rating they might reconsider. That is a scary number.


I think they don't give a shit about this number, the number of last week and the numbers for the weeks to come


----------



## qntntgood

optikk sucks said:


> Who the fuck is gonna watch my 600lb life


The 50 and older crowd,especially those watching the news.and one thing about media fear,panic,propaganda sells.


----------



## El Hammerstone

AEW down, NXT down, RAW's Wrestlemania go home show drew the lowest rating in the show's modern history this week; it's useless to even indulge in ratings at this juncture.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> I think they don't give a shit about this number, the number of last week and the numbers for the weeks to come


Really I hope you are right,because raw just took a hit.and now this,the media the love to this whole pandemic because their ratings were in the toilet before this happened.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Really I hope you are right,because raw just took a hit.and now this,the media the love to this whole pandemic because their ratings were in the toilet before this happened.


AEW is still doing better numbers during a pandemic than the shows that TNT aired before the creation of AEW.


----------



## DOTL

What I hate most about this is now for an entire week we having to listen to AEW hater say the same stuff they always say with the addition premature vindication.


----------



## Erik.

DOTL said:


> What I hate most about this is now for an entire week we having to listen to AEW hater say the same stuff they always say with the addition premature vindication.


At this point mate, there could be a World War pending and you'd get the same people spouting about how wrestling is dead because people aren't watching it and ratings are going down.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Just go to show. All them haters laughing at the Raw ratings claiming there is no excuse as it's a go home show.

It's nothing to do with either product. Empty arena shows aint gonna draw the same ratings as regular shows. Same with any other sports in the world. Imagine a Federer v Nadal game in empty arena. No way it draws same ratings as a packed out venue.

These ratings are meaningless. People should not use it as a stick to beat AEW or WWE but fans are idiots...


----------



## Dark Emperor

DOTL said:


> What I hate most about this is now for an entire week we having to listen to AEW hater say the same stuff they always say with the addition premature vindication.


It's not just AEW haters. WWE haters do the same on Raw threads. It's wrestling fans in general that always find a reason to be negative.


----------



## Joe Gill

AEW and WWE are both in serious troube....its going to be months before live audiences are allowed to return to arenas...Ive even heard some experts say that until there is a vaccine no city is going to allow 5000+ individuals into an arena. If AEW decides to shu things down for a while it might be a year+ before they pack arenas again. 
Its also going to kill any momentum the wrestlers had. Its like starting from scratch. Moxleys first reign as champion is going to be a dud.


----------



## fabi1982

El Hammerstone said:


> AEW down, NXT down, RAW's Wrestlemania go home show drew the lowest rating in the show's modern history this week; it's useless to even indulge in ratings at this juncture.


still the RAW ratings thread is full of people glueing the ratings to the bad product, but in this thread it seems to be understandable that the ratings are down. Still a lot of double standards...


----------



## fabi1982

And even worse the key demo dropped drastically, so not just the old fucks watching the news dropped out, but also the young folks who usually dont give a fuck about anything.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oh noes! Dey ded!

nice chatting to all of you - let’s go back to the WWe forum!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I think they don't give a shit about this number, the number of last week and the numbers for the weeks to come


also - still better than any number TNT has had on a Wed when there wasn’t a worldwide pandemic, pre-AEW

context is important


----------



## El Hammerstone

fabi1982 said:


> still the RAW ratings thread is full of people glueing the ratings to the bad product, but in this thread it seems to be understandable that the ratings are down. Still a lot of double standards...


I can't speak for others, but I'm willing to grant the same muligan for all wrestling shows in terms of ratings right now; I've given AEW plenty of criticism and will continue to do so where I see fit, so I'm far from a blind mark.


----------



## fabi1982

El Hammerstone said:


> I can't speak for others, but I'm willing to grant the same muligan for all wrestling shows in terms of ratings right now; I've given AEW plenty of criticism and will continue to do so where I see fit, so I'm far from a blind mark.


Wasnt meaning you with my comment, just quoted your post. I know you are not one of the blind marks/haters


----------



## RapShepard

They deserve leeway given the situation. Though I wonder if Bryan Alvarez rips them apart like he did Raw's ratings.


----------



## Y2K23

Lol AEW being superior to WWE programming has nothing to do with ratings , it has more to do with better storytelling, better character development and a overall more cohesive and entertaining product catered to fans.

Having said that, Me and My friends all forgot about dynamite last night.

It's hard to invest in anything right know so all the ratings talk is kinda pointless


----------



## EmbassyForever

Jesus. Wrestling in general is in really, really bad place atm.

Most viewers don't care about empty-arena shows. I can see why, tbh.


----------



## Chan Hung

Almost wonder if AEW should just basically go blank til the virus is over and come back to a returning audience? NXT did shit awful too. Raw is doing basically 750,000 more than AEW more or less on average. Wrestling sucks with no audience.


----------



## validreasoning

EmbassyForever said:


> Jesus. Wrestling in general is in really, really bad place atm.
> 
> Most viewers don't care about empty-arena shows. I can see why, tbh.


Look past the actual number because they mean little.

Pro wrestling is still providing new content to Turner, Fox and NBC weekly which NHL, NBA, UFC, NCAA and soon to be MLB have been unable too. That should raise their profile among tv networks not reduce it.

ESPN are airing Wrestlemanias in full because they need content. Fox sports aired full 2020 Rumble Tuesday night because they needed new content.


----------



## Chan Hung

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Folks who weight 300+lbs and want to feel good about themselves.


laugh my fucking gutt off!


----------



## Christopher Near

RapShepard said:


> They deserve leeway given the situation. Though I wonder if Bryan Alvarez rips them apart like he did Raw's ratings.


I doubt he will even though I personally think fans should keep the same energy with these type of things


----------



## RapShepard

Christopher Near said:


> I doubt he will even though I personally think fans should keep the same energy with these type of things


Should definitely keep the same energy. But like Cornette his negativity is entertaining.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW was I believe 6th as far as non news (or fake news with US media) shows.

I can't watch more than 5 minutes of news before I want to puke.


----------



## French Connection

rbl85 said:


> I think they don't give a shit about this number, the number of last week and the numbers for the weeks to come


I am not sure about this. 
The main problem right now, is the networks have to drop the price for the commercials because most companies do not want to afford it anymore (because of the lockdown).

In my view, sports (and I include wrestling there) need a live audience. 
I would really consider to close the company until better days come.


----------



## Erik.

Not just sports. 

Wrestling isn't a sport. 

Its theatre. Just imagine those performing in a theatre infront of zero audience members. You don't get the same vibe or energy. Infact, you'd question your motivation.


----------



## sideon

Christopher Near said:


> I doubt he will even though I personally think fans should keep the same energy with these type of things


It's not just him, the guys over at Wrestling INC are completely biased and Matt Morgan admitted he's biased towards AEW. Last week they criticized NXT for losing ratings but tried to spin AEW losing ratings into a positive.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chan Hung said:


> Almost wonder if AEW should just basically go blank til the virus is over and come back to a returning audience? NXT did shit awful too. Raw is doing basically 750,000 more than AEW more or less on average. Wrestling sucks with no audience.


No Raw is did 1.3 million more than Dynamite this week. Raw did 1.92 million and Dynamite did 685,000 viewers so you're wrong again.


----------



## Ozell Gray

MJF said:


> Not just sports.
> 
> Wrestling isn't a sport.
> 
> Its theatre. Just imagine those performing in a theatre infront of zero audience members. You don't get the same vibe or energy. Infact, you'd question your motivation.


*👉Wrestling* is a combat *sport👈* involving grappling-type techniques such as clinch fighting, throws and takedowns, joint locks, pins and other grappling holds. The *sport* can either be theatrical for entertainment (see professional *wrestling*), or genuinely competitive.


----------



## Christopher Near

sideon said:


> It's not just him, the guys over at Wrestling INC are completely biased and Matt Morgan admitted he's biased towards AEW. Last week they criticized NXT for losing ratings but tried to spin AEW losing ratings into a positive.





sideon said:


> It's not just him, the guys over at Wrestling INC are completely biased and Matt Morgan admitted he's biased towards AEW. Last week they criticized NXT for losing ratings but tried to spin AEW losing ratings into a positive.


I enjoy aew but sometimes the bias for aew is straight up unfair. On the December 18 episode where nxt won all I saw was excuses and people moving the goal posts when they would not do the same for nxt 

Cody himself had no issue taking the l and gave props to nxt


----------



## Cult03

Joe Gill said:


> AEW and WWE are both in serious troube....its going to be months before live audiences are allowed to return to arenas...Ive even heard some experts say that until there is a vaccine no city is going to allow 5000+ individuals into an arena. If AEW decides to shu things down for a while it might be a year+ before they pack arenas again.
> Its also going to kill any momentum the wrestlers had. Its like starting from scratch. Moxleys first reign as champion is going to be a dud.


The entire worlds economy is in trouble. Wrestling is the only event still being shown on TV that I can think of. Ratings haven't mattered for a long time and they matter even less during a global pandemic. It isn't a fair judgment on what is good during the best of times.

PS. Moxley's title reign was always going to be a dud anyway.


----------



## NathanMayberry

A re-run of supposedly the worst Wrestlemania of all time beat Dynamite in the ratings. Damn.. maybe its time Tony Khan takes a long hard look in the mirror and cuts out some of the nonsense.


----------



## DrewCN

Do people just not care about nxt? Seems like the doom gloom posts are exclusive to aew


----------



## TripleG

2 things: 

1) Everyone is watching the news because they want to stay up to date on what is going on. 

2) Wrestling is severely missing something when there is no crowd there. You can only do so much to make up for that, but until we get audiences back watching and reacting to this stuff, they aren't going to feel like real wrestling shows.


----------



## RiverFenix

Delete.


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> A re-run of supposedly the worst Wrestlemania of all time beat Dynamite in the ratings. Damn.. maybe its time Tony Khan takes a long hard look in the mirror and cuts out some of the nonsense.


You guys are full of crap. AEW could be the way you want it to be and you’d move the goal post once again and keep the truth of your feelings to yourself.

Some of you guys can’t even admit wrong when reality is slapping you in the face on the most basic of issues concerning AEW, yet you want me to believe a difference of quality will alter your position?


----------



## The Wood

qntntgood said:


> Nxt is dead,stick a fork in them there done.


They’ve got WWE to prop them up. AEW only has AEW.



optikk sucks said:


> Who the fuck is gonna watch my 600lb life


More people than those who wanna watch AEW, apparently.



Dark Emperor said:


> It's not just AEW haters. WWE haters do the same on Raw threads. It's wrestling fans in general that always find a reason to be negative.


It’s because both companies fork out shit and insult the intelligence of their fans, whether they mean to or not.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oh noes! Dey ded!
> 
> nice chatting to all of you - let’s go back to the WWe forum!


It’s pretty funny that the only people who say this sort of shit are the people apparently mocking. Literally _no one_ said that. You are responding to hysteria you made up.



RapShepard said:


> They deserve leeway given the situation. Though I wonder if Bryan Alvarez rips them apart like he did Raw's ratings.


Of course he won’t. Raw will be dying with its 4% drop, but AEW drops 16% and it will just be because of the news.

These are bizarre times. As validreasoning said, wrestling provides content during these times. The big worry will be whether or not wrestling can re-inject interest when live crowds come back. IF they survive this dark period. Crowds are probably not coming back any time soon. WWE are at an advantage because they have a back catalogue they can sell, making them extremely valuable partners. AEW really only has Dynamite and a couple of PPVs.

The truth is that like a bad sitcom with the laugh track removed, this virus is exposing just how shit wrestling is to people. That’s why they’re not watching. Other shows can retain their viewers, and even get more. Good wrestling would be high priority right now. A Mid-South or Continental would be relishing this opportunity to reinforce a television presence.


----------



## Cult03

While I don't think we should be judging companies based on their ratings anymore, the excuses of the news being more necessary does make sense but how the fuck does Black Ink Crew, Married at First Sight and My 600lb Life routinely beat this company? AEW isn't at war with NXT, they're at war with shitty reality TV. Fucking hell, America..


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> While I don't think we should be judging companies based on their ratings anymore, the excuses of the news being more necessary does make sense but how the fuck does Black Ink Crew, Married at First Sight and My 600lb Life routinely beat this company? AEW isn't at war with NXT, they're at war with shitty reality TV. Fucking hell, America..


You ever watch Black Ink Crew? I mean it's a bunch of drinking, fighting, fucking, and arguing. The storylines are easy to follow. Shits enjoyable


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> They’ve got WWE to prop them up. AEW only has AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> More people than those who wanna watch AEW, apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s because both companies fork out shit and insult the intelligence of their fans, whether they mean to or not.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s pretty funny that the only people who say this sort of shit are the people apparently mocking. Literally _no one_ said that. You are responding to hysteria you made up.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he won’t. Raw will be dying with its 4% drop, but AEW drops 16% and it will just be because of the news.
> 
> These are bizarre times. As validreasoning said, wrestling provides content during these times. The big worry will be whether or not wrestling can re-inject interest when live crowds come back. IF they survive this dark period. Crowds are probably not coming back any time soon. WWE are at an advantage because they have a back catalogue they can sell, making them extremely valuable partners. AEW really only has Dynamite and a couple of PPVs.
> 
> The truth is that like a bad sitcom with the laugh track removed, this virus is exposing just how shit wrestling is to people. That’s why they’re not watching. Other shows can retain their viewers, and even get more. Good wrestling would be high priority right now. A Mid-South or Continental would be relishing this opportunity to reinforce a television presence.


Mid south didn't survive recession affecting oil states - not a good example there. Let's see when coronavirus clears.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

An okay rating. AEW will bounce back like always.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DOTL said:


> You guys are full of crap. AEW could be the way you want it to be and you’d move the goal post once again and keep the truth of your feelings to yourself.
> 
> Some of you guys can’t even admit wrong when reality is slapping you in the face on the most basic of issues concerning AEW, yet you want me to believe a difference of quality will alter your position?


Truth. They just want AEW to fail good or bad. That's all this is.


----------



## The Wood

Ratings are antiquated, but then again, so is cable TV. It’s a funny time to be alive.

The ratings matter if executives make them matter. If they can’t sell advertising, they will matter. If they can, they really don’t give a shit if one person watches.

The news being up makes sense, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that other things need to be down. It goes to follow that more people will be at home, so the chances that people will say “just put the news on” is high. The people who are usually around on a Wednesday are not necessarily going to change their habits. That’s why there’s no drop in other things.

People can pop the news on after the wrestling’s finished. Or they can look it up on their phone. Or they could have watched it earlier. Or they may not give a fuck about watching the news because it nauseates them. That’s why Conan O’Brien being one of the few people creating new content manages to allow him get <400k people at 11pm. The news is still on then too. He’s taking advantage of the opportunity to have a larger-than-usual captive audience.

People won’t like this, but it’s the wrestling’s fault that people don’t like the wrestling. You can argue that the lack of crowds are hurting, but these guys aren’t exactly Funk or Lawler or Rock or Foley doing this empty arena stuff. Studio wrestling didn’t have the biggest crowds. There is some brilliant silent stuff. And, truth be told, even if you want to act like it’s the news’ fault that people are tuning out, you shouldn’t act like that, because if it turns out to be something on your end, then you’re fucked. Prepare like this is a problem and you may not have one later on if it would become one.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> You ever watch Black Ink Crew? I mean it's a bunch of drinking, fighting, fucking, and arguing. The storylines are easy to follow. Shits enjoyable


Ha, sounds like it would be a good wrestling show. AEW should take note! 



Pippen94 said:


> Mid south didn't survive recession affecting oil states - not a good example there. Let's see when coronavirus clears.


That’s because they didn’t have hundreds of millions of dollars in TV rights fees to prop them up. When shown on TBS, their ratings completely smoked Vince’s.

The point was not about their specific economic situations — it was about how a wrestling promoter would use everyone being trapped at home as a chance to make themselves even more valuable to network executives. Wrestling has become so...passive.

And DOTL, I like good wrestling when it is good. You started at the conclusion I wouldn’t just to say it is low. It’s attacking people instead of their actual arguments. Grow up.


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Truth. They just want AEW to fail good or bad. That's all this is.


Nah, I want AEW to be what they promised to be and for the fans who made promises of brining WWE to an end to admit they were getting ahead of themselves. I want realistic and fair conversation about something I love, where we can talk about the positives and negatives of this show without being called trolls. I want 5 really good companies instead of 10 average ones. I want them to continue listening to the fans who want a better product and not the fans who have been saying "everything is perfect" from the first episode. 

Yeah some of us can get a bit worked up and say a lot of negative things about the company but when every single thing you say is called out as a troll you probably back it up and say some things that shouldn't have been said. Likewise, I'm sure some of you have said something was good knowing it wasn't just because you were being defensive. And the "anyone who says anything bad about AEW must be a WWE fan" narrative has to stop. It's just simply not true and is an attempt to avoid having a proper conversation about AEW's deficiencies.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> And DOTL, I like good wrestling when it is good. You started at the conclusion I wouldn’t just to say it is low. It’s attacking people instead of their actual arguments. Grow up.


Criticizing behavior isn’t the same thing as attacking a person. You say “grow up.” Ironic considering conflating criticism with a personal attack is literally the way toddlers process criticism.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Criticizing behavior isn’t the same thing as attacking a person. THAT is a childish outlook.


No, you’re criticizing imaginary behaviour. “If this happened you would do this...” No. That hasn’t happened. So just stop.

The virus is going to make it irresponsible for anyone to get into wrestling afresh right now, but when things start to clear up, I hope someone comes along to try and snag up some of that TV money. These empty arena shows are kind of highlighting the gap in the market for something more...authentic. Someone somewhere must be stroking their beard.


----------



## DOTL

edit: nvm


----------



## ClintDagger

AEW and WWE have perfectly good excuses for the bottom falling out of the ratings. On one hand, being one of the few sports type shows putting out new content you would think would be a positive. But empty arena shows are tough. I do think both companies should be worried. Anytime a big chunk of your audience gets into the routine of tuning out it’s not easy to get them back into the fold. I think both companies have a large % of their audience that is very wishy washy. My gut feeling is that neither company recovers from this and their new normal once the pandemic is over will be well below their old normal.


----------



## DOTL

ClintDagger said:


> AEW and WWE have perfectly good excuses for the bottom falling out of the ratings. On one hand, being one of the few sports type shows putting out new content you would think would be a positive. But empty arena shows are tough. I do think both companies should be worried. Anytime a big chunk of your audience gets into the routine of tuning out it’s not easy to get them back into the fold. I think both companies have a large % of their audience that is very wishy washy. My gut feeling is that neither company recovers from this and their new normal once the pandemic is over will be well below their old normal.


Yeah, it’s probably best to go on hiatus.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> What would be insane is for me to expect you and the others like you to all of a sudden be reasonable in spite months of the behavior I described. You even responded to it even though I didn’t use your name in the op, so it’s not like this is some wild interpretation of mine.


Yes, it is a wild interpretation. You are making things up about people. Stop.



ClintDagger said:


> AEW and WWE have perfectly good excuses for the bottom falling out of the ratings. On one hand, being one of the few sports type shows putting out new content you would think would be a positive. But empty arena shows are tough. I do think both companies should be worried. Anytime a big chunk of your audience gets into the routine of tuning out it’s not easy to get them back into the fold. I think both companies have a large % of their audience that is very wishy washy. My gut feeling is that neither company recovers from this and their new normal once the pandemic is over will be well below their old normal.


This is 100% what I think. People aren’t going to magically know that arena shows are back so they can check out the wrestling that they would just watch if only there were a bunch of yahoos chanting some annoying things. These people are going to be hard to get back. And there’s probably going to be a rush back to sports, like real sports, that is going to hit them all over again.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Ha, sounds like it would be a good wrestling show. AEW should take note!
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because they didn’t have hundreds of millions of dollars in TV rights fees to prop them up. When shown on TBS, their ratings completely smoked Vince’s.
> 
> The point was not about their specific economic situations — it was about how a wrestling promoter would use everyone being trapped at home as a chance to make themselves even more valuable to network executives. Wrestling has become so...passive.
> 
> And DOTL, I like good wrestling when it is good. You started at the conclusion I wouldn’t just to say it is low. It’s attacking people instead of their actual arguments. Grow up.


Mid south faced an external crisis & folded. Don't talk about how they'd make this situation a winner. Continental lasted the 80's boom that's it.


----------



## Pippen94

ClintDagger said:


> AEW and WWE have perfectly good excuses for the bottom falling out of the ratings. On one hand, being one of the few sports type shows putting out new content you would think would be a positive. But empty arena shows are tough. I do think both companies should be worried. Anytime a big chunk of your audience gets into the routine of tuning out it’s not easy to get them back into the fold. I think both companies have a large % of their audience that is very wishy washy. My gut feeling is that neither company recovers from this and their new normal once the pandemic is over will be well below their old normal.


We're living through extraordinary times, I wouldn't read to much into it. Wait till smoke clears. Certainly people here have made predictions regarding the demise of wrestling companies which have already proven wrong.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Raw has lost


Joe Gill said:


> AEW and WWE are both in serious troube....its going to be months before live audiences are allowed to return to arenas...Ive even heard some experts say that until there is a vaccine no city is going to allow 5000+ individuals into an arena. If AEW decides to shu things down for a while it might be a year+ before they pack arenas again.
> Its also going to kill any momentum the wrestlers had. Its like starting from scratch. Moxleys first reign as champion is going to be a dud.


Don’t worry about that one bit. The government won’t shut the NFL down so arenas will be full again in August/September.


----------



## validreasoning

MJF said:


> Not just sports.
> 
> Wrestling isn't a sport.
> 
> Its theatre. Just imagine those performing in a theatre infront of zero audience members. You don't get the same vibe or energy. Infact, you'd question your motivation.


It's not theatre either.

Pro wrestling is impossible to label and probably why majority of the world can't wrap their head around it and why it has such a raucous following.

It's interesting that those trying their hand in the ring ie Mayweather, Cain, Rousey, Gronk, LT usually come from a sporting background not a theatrical one.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DOTL said:


> You guys are full of crap. AEW could be the way you want it to be and you’d move the goal post once again and keep the truth of your feelings to yourself.
> 
> Some of you guys can’t even admit wrong when reality is slapping you in the face on the most basic of issues concerning AEW, yet you want me to believe a difference of quality will alter your position?


Here's the thing though. AEW has never been like that for me though. Its a convoluted mess of egos, all trying to get themselves as over as possible. Resulting in a show that doesn't even make logical sense anymore. Had the Coronavirus not happened, we would have had a WarGames match for no other reason than they could. 

Literally every time this company does something great, they somehow find a way to something so cringy that it turns me (and clearly a lot of people) off. How could a show with Jericho, Ambrose, Cody, Omega, Hardy, Harper all "unchained" from the evil Vince McMahon that stifles all creativity be so fucking lame now that they're free? 

Cody on The JBL & Cole show was peak entertainment, he carried little of that over to instead focus on being a bootleg Triple H. Jericho finally gets the keys to be the face of a company and completely lets himself go. Ambrose is now Moxley yet still as bland and unforgettable as ever. He's the Champion, yet his reign is meaningless. Omega is supposed to be the best in the world and one of the best ever, I don't watch Japanese trash but I've heard and seen the New Japan circle jerking, and now that I can finally see Omega regularly all I'm left asking is wtf? Hardy is trying but its clear they need to have a higher authority willing to tell him no, sometimes. Not every idea he has needs to end up on TV. Some of them are legit garbage. Harper came in and continued this lame ass shit "WWE held me back" shit that got old months ago. 

Beyond them, there are so many wrestlers that have no business being on National TV yet are because they are friends with an EVP. Does Tony Khan ever watch the shows he puts on? Or does he simply focus on the feedback he gets from AEW marks on Twitter?


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Raw has lost
> 
> 
> Don’t worry about that one bit. The government won’t shut the NFL down so arenas will be full again in August/September.


You need to stop watching so much Fox News.


----------



## imthegame19

AEW taped next month worth of shows last week in Jacksonville and this week at Nightmare Factory. This also means no matches from Adam Page, MJF, Pac, Young Bucks, SCU, Jungle Express, Private Party, Santana&Ortiz, Joey Janela wrestling. Even though I'm sure they will tape some video to send in from home.


The roster is basically Moxley(from Jacksonville tapings),Hager(from Jacksonville tapings) Jericho, Omega, Cody, Brodie Lee, Darby, Lance Archer, Dustin Rhodes, Shawn Spears, Sammy Guevara, Colt Cabana, Kip Sabian, Jimmy Havoc, Trent, Chuck, Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, QT Marshall and maybe Matt Hardy. Who might have shot more content in Jacksonville last week.










AEW completes TV tapings, now has weeks if not months of original matches to help fill Dynamite on TNT - Pro Wrestling Torch


AEW finished their tapings just a few minutes ago in Norcross, Ga. before the Midnight deadline Thursday night to close down all non-essential business. Sources from AEW indicate they have enough footage taped to create [...]




www.pwtorch.com


----------



## .christopher.

Dark Emperor said:


> It's not just AEW haters. WWE haters do the same on Raw threads. It's wrestling fans in general that always find a reason to be negative.


Wrestling is in its worst state ever. It's not hard to find negatives at all. In fact, wrestling practically shoves them in your face.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Mid south faced an external crisis & folded. Don't talk about how they'd make this situation a winner. Continental lasted the 80's boom that's it.


Dude, can you listen to what people are actually saying? I know you're still stuck on "you said they'd be broke by January and were wrong" which you completely made up, but I'm talking about the philosophies of these promotions _as if they were contemporary._ It cannot be too hard to grasp. You want to talk about those promotions going out of business? Fuck, AEW wouldn't have lasted a microsecond in those conditions. It exists solely because of the Vince McMahon monopoly and the death of television leading to high TV rights money. But that's not the point. The point is that AEW has absolutely not been able to capitalize, whether you want to blame them or not, on the situation they find themselves in. Other promoters would have been rubbing their hands with glee at the idea of something forcing people inside. This is actually a good time to expand your audience, but none of the wrestling companies know how to do anything other than sports entertainment. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Raw has lost
> 
> 
> Don’t worry about that one bit. The government won’t shut the NFL down so arenas will be full again in August/September.


Wtf is your point about Raw losing even about? They've lost what? 4% of their viewers? Dynamite went down by 16% this week. They lost an estimated 80k people this week. That's to AEW's estimated drop of 134k. I'm not fan of what they do, but if you're going to apply a "Haha! Look at them failing over there!" mentality to this thing, I think AEW fans need to be more honest about who really has trouble keeping viewers. AEW got barely a third of Raw's rating this week. Raw got a 0.59 in the "key demo." AEW got a 0.25. Let's not pretend that Dynamite is some wildly hip product that is going to be closing in on the juggernaut anytime soon. 

I think you're in for a bit of a shock when it comes to things shutting down. And AEW needs to be preparing for the worst. This "ah, it'll be fine" attitude is an absolutely _horrible_ business strategy. They need to act like they're not going to get crowds back any time soon, and they need to treat these declining ratings like it's their fault and not just shrug and go "oh well," because even if it's not, if they get blamed and there is an expectation for them to do better, they are going to find it much harder to make new fans than they are to keep the ones they've got.


----------



## Pippen94

.christopher. said:


> Wrestling is in its worst state ever. It's not hard to find negatives at all. In fact, wrestling practically shoves them in your face.


Only because of corona. In past year a new company has started & drawn crowds of over 10,000 & scored a big TV deal. Wwe live crowds were up this year before lockdown. Even njpw has done business in north america. Go back to 1995.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Only because of corona. In past year a new company has started & drawn crowds of over 10,000 & scored a big TV deal. Wwe live crowds were up this year before lockdown. Even njpw has done business in north america. Go back to 1995.


It's also the lowest rated wrestling show on basic cable television history, drawn far less on domestic PPV than even ECW and those live crowds were dropping. That TV deal was not "huge" by TV standards at all. New Japan played in rooms that were barely big enough to fit a pool table. Interest in wrestling is lower than it's ever been. It's because kayfabe is dead and no one gives a fuck to try and if the wrestlers and promotions don't give a fuck, why would the fans?

AEW has not increased the number of wrestling fans there are in the world. They did not siphon any viewers away from Raw or SmackDown. They've lost about half their initial audience. Stop acting like this is the hot shit. It's cool you like it, but that doesn't mean it works. To misrepresent it as such is deliberately being dishonest.


----------



## sideon

NathanMayberry said:


> A re-run of supposedly the worst Wrestlemania of all time beat Dynamite in the ratings. Damn.. maybe its time Tony Khan takes a long hard look in the mirror and cuts out some of the nonsense.


27 is the worst Mania of all time, 32 was good but too damn long.


DOTL said:


> You guys are full of crap. AEW could be the way you want it to be and you’d move the goal post once again and keep the truth of your feelings to yourself.
> 
> Some of you guys can’t even admit wrong when reality is slapping you in the face on the most basic of issues concerning AEW, yet you want me to believe a difference of quality will alter your position?


The issues with AEW is making smarks the target audience, because smarks are the minimal fanbase they'll never bring the ratings networks want. They're doing what WCW did by signing former WWE talent, but the difference is that WCW was signing former talent with name value. The truth is that Matt, Jake, Spears & Brodie Lee aren't going to get people to tune in.


Pippen94 said:


> Only because of corona. In past year a new company has started & drawn crowds of over 10,000 & scored a big TV deal. Wwe live crowds were up this year before lockdown. Even njpw has done business in north america. Go back to 1995.


It was a good deal for a new company but it wasn't a big tv deal, especially when you factor in Khan's & Cody's cut and expenses. Also the attendance for AEW was dropping at a fast pace.


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> 27 is the worst Mania of all time, 32 was good but too damn long.
> 
> The issues with AEW is making smarks the target audience, because smarks are the minimal fanbase they'll never bring the ratings networks want. They're doing what WCW did by signing former WWE talent, but the difference is that WCW was signing former talent with name value. The truth is that Matt, Jake, Spears & Brodie Lee aren't going to get people to tune in.
> 
> It was a good deal for a new company but it wasn't a big tv deal, especially when you factor in Khan's & Cody's cut and expenses. Also the attendance for AEW was dropping at a fast pace.


TV deal the biggest achieved other than by wwe. Aew venues this year have been in smaller markets. NY sold over 10,000 & Chicago sold out.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It's also the lowest rated wrestling show on basic cable television history, drawn far less on domestic PPV than even ECW and those live crowds were dropping. That TV deal was not "huge" by TV standards at all. New Japan played in rooms that were barely big enough to fit a pool table. Interest in wrestling is lower than it's ever been. It's because kayfabe is dead and no one gives a fuck to try and if the wrestlers and promotions don't give a fuck, why would the fans?
> 
> AEW has not increased the number of wrestling fans there are in the world. They did not siphon any viewers away from Raw or SmackDown. They've lost about half their initial audience. Stop acting like this is the hot shit. It's cool you like it, but that doesn't mean it works. To misrepresent it as such is deliberately being dishonest.


Is this your opinion again or is it fact; where are official aew ppv numbers breaking down domestic buys? ECW best is 99,000 - can you certainly say no aew ppv did better in usa? 
Aew attendance's solid given most shows this year in smaller markets; biggest sales in Chicago & NY. 
No USA company has come close to this attendance since wcw.
NJPW sold out msg.
Just because you don't understand how TV works; don't compare 2000 ratings to today & season premiere numbers always drop off!


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Is this your opinion again or is it fact; where are official aew ppv numbers breaking down domestic buys? ECW best is 99,000 - can you certainly say no aew ppv did better in usa?
> Aew attendance's solid given most shows this year in smaller markets; biggest sales in Chicago & NY.
> No USA company has come close to this attendance since wcw.
> NJPW sold out msg.
> Just because you don't understand how TV works; don't compare 2000 ratings to today & season premiere numbers always drop off!


AEW's attendance went from 10,000 to 3,906

Meltzer attendance figures since Christmas AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!

NJPW didn't sellout MSG that was an ROH show NOT an NJPW show 

Despite its huge MSG sell-out, Ring of Honor finds itself at a crossroads. Ring of Honor Faces New Competition in the Wake of its Huge Madison Square Garden Show

NJPW barely did 500--900 people in ATL a month or 2 ago. In fact Impact outdrew them in ATL. Impact had 2,000 people at their shows. NJPW had 500-900 people which the former (500) is an ROH type crowd.

The reason AEW's viewership numbers are low is because their product is bad and because they only appeal to smarks because smarks are the only people watching this company.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW's attendance went from 10,000 to 3,906
> 
> Meltzer attendance figures since Christmas AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!
> 
> NJPW didn't sellout MSG that was an ROH show NOT an NJPW show
> 
> Despite its huge MSG sell-out, Ring of Honor finds itself at a crossroads. Ring of Honor Faces New Competition in the Wake of its Huge Madison Square Garden Show
> 
> NJPW barely did 500--900 people in ATL a month or 2 ago. In fact Impact outdrew them in ATL. Impact had 2,000 people at their shows. NJPW had 500-900 people which the former (500) is an ROH type crowd.
> 
> The reason AEW's viewership numbers are low is because their product is bad and because they only appeal to smarks because smarks are the only people watching this company.


Aew averaged 6,000 last year so you just making things up with 10,000. Despite most shows in small markets aew averaging better than any wwe rival since wcw. 
Msg was joint show. Elsewhere njpw did 4000 paid in Texas & over 2500 three other times. 
Between demise of wcw & all in no non wwe show did more than 7000 live. In past 18 months it's happen numerous times


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> *👉Wrestling* is a combat *sport👈* involving grappling-type techniques such as clinch fighting, throws and takedowns, joint locks, pins and other grappling holds. The *sport* can either be theatrical for entertainment (see professional *wrestling*), or genuinely competitive.


Well done, you just described amateur wrestling.

Anything else you fancy being wrong about?


----------



## Erik.

validreasoning said:


> It's not theatre either.
> 
> Pro wrestling is impossible to label and probably why majority of the world can't wrap their head around it and why it has such a raucous following.
> 
> It's interesting that those trying their hand in the ring ie Mayweather, Cain, Rousey, Gronk, LT usually come from a sporting background not a theatrical one.


Of course its theatre. Pretty bad theatre full of mostly terribly actors, but it's still theatre. 

Its hardly that interesting that athletes try their hand at something you need to be genuinely athletic to do. Whereas I assume most guys from a theatre background probably see wrestling as below them and aren't anywhere near as athletic (or a big enough name) that athletes are.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> Well done, you just described amateur wrestling.
> 
> Anything else you fancy being wrong about?


Why do you bother with these idiots bro


----------



## The Masked Avenger

imthegame19 said:


> AEW taped next month worth of shows last week in Jacksonville and this week at Nightmare Factory. This also means no matches from Adam Page, MJF, Pac, Young Bucks, SCU, Jungle Express, Private Party, Santana&Ortiz, Joey Janela wrestling. Even though I'm sure they will tape some video to send in from home.
> 
> 
> The roster is basically Moxley(from Jacksonville tapings),Hager(from Jacksonville tapings) Jericho, Omega, Cody, Brodie Lee, Darby, Lance Archer, Dustin Rhodes, Shawn Spears, Sammy Guevara, Colt Cabana, Kip Sabian, Jimmy Havoc, Trent, Chuck, Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, QT Marshall and maybe Matt Hardy. Who might have shot more content in Jacksonville last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW completes TV tapings, now has weeks if not months of original matches to help fill Dynamite on TNT - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> AEW finished their tapings just a few minutes ago in Norcross, Ga. before the Midnight deadline Thursday night to close down all non-essential business. Sources from AEW indicate they have enough footage taped to create [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com


Read that. Everyone from the tapings was told to self isolate for the next 2 weeks in case they have the ability to film more but should have enough content to go up to DoN. I kinda wish they would crown the TNT Champ so they can have at least on belt on the show. Mox and Hangman wasn't at the Nightmare Factory tapings and Nyla hasn't been at any of them.


----------



## validreasoning

MJF said:


> Of course its theatre. Pretty bad theatre full of mostly terribly actors, but it's still theatre.
> 
> Its hardly that interesting that athletes try their hand at something you need to be genuinely athletic to do. Whereas I assume most guys from a theatre background probably see wrestling as below them and aren't anywhere near as athletic (or a big enough name) that athletes are.


You just explained why it isn't theatre in your last sentence...

Pro wrestling was responsible for the creation of mma. pro wrestling fans don't view pro wrestling like fans view theatre.

The success of theatre is built on directors and composers. Pro wrestlings success has been built on the emergence of new stars.

If you want to compare pro wrestling at least since 1930s to something then the traveling circus is probably best comparison.


----------



## Erik.

validreasoning said:


> You just explained why it isn't theatre in your last sentence...
> 
> Pro wrestling was responsible for the creation of mma. pro wrestling fans don't view pro wrestling like fans view theatre.
> 
> The success of theatre is built on directors and composers. Pro wrestlings success has been built on the emergence of new stars.
> 
> If you want to compare pro wrestling at least since 1930s to something then the traveling circus is probably best comparison.


Why, because its more athletic? 

Its performance art and more akin to theatre than it is sport. It has all the elements of a live theatre show from music, words, action, spectacle, story. 

Travelling circus, sure. I could get on board with that. 

Xavier Woods, PhD once described it as :

"wrestling is one of the last forms of Shakespeare in the round. The crowd is watching men and women tell stories through physicality with an audience at a 360 degree setting. Artist use paint to create art on a canvas, and we use our fists and feet to create art on a canvas "


----------



## imthegame19

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Read that. Everyone from the tapings was told to self isolate for the next 2 weeks in case they have the ability to film more but should have enough content to go up to DoN. I kinda wish they would crown the TNT Champ so they can have at least on belt on the show. Mox and Hangman wasn't at the Nightmare Factory tapings and Nyla hasn't been at any of them.


Ya if they aren't allowed to do more after 3 or 4 weeks. These shows could get pretty rough. Like I'm sure they shot some backstage or pretaped stuff for Hager/Moxley next week to hype their match. Beyond that they probably won't have tons of Moxley content. My guess is Moxley wins then Hager hurts him after the match. 


So Jericho will say he wants his rematch at Double or Nothing. Which we will see Moxley in video from home accepting. Unless they can tape again by April 22nd or 29th. Same goes with Omega. Storyline they can do is team attacks Omega and challenges for Double Or Nothing. Then we can see video from Page saying he will be there. Or who knows Young Bucks might challenge for rematch. Or maybe Brodie Lee and Omega will do stuff to set up Dark Order vs Omega/Page since Dark Order number 1 ranked team. 


If they can't tape until Double or Nothing these will be some pretty weak shows come May. My guess is they are going to do a tournament match every week to the ppv. Since there's six matches and seven weeks of tv to ppv. So they will spread them and then use final week to hype up Double or Nothing match. I fully expect a lot of this matches to main event a lot of shows.


----------



## DrewCN

After wrestlemania, a ladder match and a takeover main event. Nxt winning should be a possibility


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Aew averaged 6,000 last year so you just making things up with 10,000. Despite most shows in small markets aew averaging better than any wwe rival since wcw.
> Msg was joint show. Elsewhere njpw did 4000 paid in Texas & over 2500 three other times.
> Between demise of wcw & all in no non wwe show did more than 7000 live. In past 18 months it's happen numerous times





Pippen94 said:


> Aew averaged 6,000 last year so you just making things up with 10,000. Despite most shows in small markets aew averaging better than any wwe rival since wcw.
> Msg was joint show. Elsewhere njpw did 4000 paid in Texas & over 2500 three other times.
> Between demise of wcw & all in no non wwe show did more than 7000 live. In past 18 months it's happen numerous times


They averaged 10,000 when they first started then it dropped to 3,906

Sellout Attendance for AEW Double or Nothing: 12,000. AEW Double Or Nothing Results: News And Notes After Jericho Beats Omega, Dean Ambrose Debuts

Meltzer attendance figures since Christmas. AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!

So you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking because I just again proved they averaged around 10,000 when they first started traveling then it dropped to 3,096 this year.

MSG was an ROH show that featured NJPW and it even said in the link that I posted that it was an ROH show so quit making things up. NJPW has been doing horrible attendance in the U.S which they themselves even admit

2020 | BELL 19:00. Atlanta, Georgia. Coca-Cola Roxy. 800 Battery Ave SE #500, Atlanta, GA 30339. Attendance : 855 . 2020.02.01 The NEW BEGINNING USA in ATLANTA | NEW JAPAN PRO-WRESTLING

They only did 855 people in ATL thats horrible attendance not to mention all of their other U.S shows had horrible attendance as well 

The latest edition of the The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that NJPW has had some disappointing attendance numbers with their recent shows, particularly the New Beginning Tour in the US. The tour was reportedly a ‘huge disappointment’ in regards to crowd size. The attendances that were announced were the building totals. In Japan, they usually announce the amount of people who paid. Paid numbers were even lower than announced.Nashville was said to be closer to 400, which was one of the lowest paid crowds in recent years for New Japan. It was reportedly the most unsuccessful tour they’ve run. The show in Atlanta, which was the last one, on February 1 had 855 fans.https://411mania.com/wrestling/njpws-recent-us-tour-numbers-reportedly-disappointing-other-shows-not-doing-well/

So NJPW are drawing around ROH type of crowds like @The Wood said.


----------



## Ozell Gray

MJF said:


> Well done, you just described amateur wrestling.
> 
> Anything else you fancy being wrong about?


It doesn't say amateur idiot it says wrestling is a combat sport which includes pro wrestling. And if amateur wrestling is a sport then pro wrestling is a sport also because its still wrestling but you wouldn't know that.
Get App



TNA WRESTLING*Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?*
JOE BURGETTOCTOBER 22, 2008









Some of you have seen wrestling, some of you have not seen it. But what constantly is debated on any sports site has always been is pro-wrestling a sport?
👉I am here to tell you it is👈, and it may be something some of you never thought about. See as a fan of just about every sport out there, I have noticed while watching wrestling I am into it as much as any sport of TV or at any game that I attend.
I can honestly say that wrestling is choreographed, and some of it is not always as real as it seems. When you get kicked in the gut, the man kicking pulls back a bit, but still kicks him, just where it doesn't hurt that much. Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?

*So, Is Pro Wrestling a Sport or Not?*

The CBSC, which represents nearly 500 radio and television stations and specialty services across Canada, has made a ruling: 👉“While there is no doubt that it does not partake of the nature of Greco-Roman wrestling or even freestyle wrestling, which audiences have been accustomed to watch as a part of, say, the Olympic Games or college sports or elsewhere, the national panel has no doubt about its nature. It is sport👈.” Is Wrestling A Sport? | Faze

So, after reading all of this, is wrestling a sport? According to dictionary.com, 👉this is what the word ‘sport’ is defined as.


> sport
> [spawrt, spohrt]
> noun
> 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
> 3. sports, (used with a singular verb) such athletic activities collectively


If we are going off the definition of the word ‘sport’, then yes; WWE and pro wrestling👈, in general, is definitely a sport. Pro wrestlers are some of the most athletic and strongest athletes in the world. If you don’t believe so, look up some of the moves they pull off and tell me otherwise. Is Pro Wrestling a Sport?

So anymore dumb comments for me to debunk? Or are you fancy in being wrong?


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> It doesn't say amateur idiot it says wrestling is a combat sport which includes pro wrestling. And if amateur wrestling is a sport then pro wrestling is a sport also because its still wrestling but you wouldn't know that.
> Get App
> 
> 
> 
> TNA WRESTLING*Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?*
> JOE BURGETTOCTOBER 22, 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you have seen wrestling, some of you have not seen it. But what constantly is debated on any sports site has always been is pro-wrestling a sport?
> 👉I am here to tell you it is👈, and it may be something some of you never thought about. See as a fan of just about every sport out there, I have noticed while watching wrestling I am into it as much as any sport of TV or at any game that I attend.
> I can honestly say that wrestling is choreographed, and some of it is not always as real as it seems. When you get kicked in the gut, the man kicking pulls back a bit, but still kicks him, just where it doesn't hurt that much. Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?
> 
> *So, Is Pro Wrestling a Sport or Not?*
> 
> The CBSC, which represents nearly 500 radio and television stations and specialty services across Canada, has made a ruling: 👉“While there is no doubt that it does not partake of the nature of Greco-Roman wrestling or even freestyle wrestling, which audiences have been accustomed to watch as a part of, say, the Olympic Games or college sports or elsewhere, the national panel has no doubt about its nature. It is sport👈.” Is Wrestling A Sport? | Faze
> So, after reading all of this, is wrestling a sport? According to dictionary.com, 👉this is what the word ‘sport’ is defined as.
> 
> If we are going off the definition of the word ‘sport’, then yes; WWE and pro wrestling👈, in general, is definitely a sport. Pro wrestlers are some of the most athletic and strongest athletes in the world. If you don’t believe so, look up some of the moves they pull off and tell me otherwise. Is Pro Wrestling a Sport?
> 
> So anymore dumb comments for me to debunk? Or are you fancy in being wrong?


No, it says it can ALSO be entertainment or theatrical which is the pro wrestling part. Surely, you're not that much of an idiot? 

Its not a sport because it has a predetermined outcome. It's as simple as that. It's scripted entertainment. A soap opera. 

Amateur wrestling IS a sport because its not fixed. It's two athletes going one on one and the winner isn't predetermined. 

Are you seriously not getting it?


----------



## Cult03

MJF said:


> No, it says it can ALSO be entertainment or theatrical which is the pro wrestling part. Surely, you're not that much of an idiot?
> 
> Its not a sport because it has a predetermined outcome. It's as simple as that. It's scripted entertainment. A soap opera.
> 
> Amateur wrestling IS a sport because its not fixed. It's two athletes going one on one and the winner isn't predetermined.
> 
> Are you seriously not getting it?


Is boxing a sport? It's been fixed a million times over the years. Or do only some of the matches count as sport?

I remember someone like Jericho claiming wrestling could be at the Olympics if it was reformatted. What if two people got in the ring, did a bunch of moves and someone gave it a score like gymnastics or synchronized diving or synchronized swimming even? Would that automatically make it a sport?


----------



## Ozell Gray

MJF said:


> No, it says it can ALSO be entertainment or theatrical which is the pro wrestling part. Surely, you're not that much of an idiot?
> 
> Its not a sport because it has a predetermined outcome. It's as simple as that. It's scripted entertainment. A soap opera.
> 
> Amateur wrestling IS a sport because its not fixed. It's two athletes going one on one and the winner isn't predetermined.
> 
> Are you seriously not getting it?



And it also says that wrestling is a sport so you surely can't be this dumb can you idiot?

Its still a sport like I just proved in my links and the definition of a sport also proves its a sport.So even though its fake its still a sport nontheless and thats why its regulated by the Athletic Commission just like every other sport is.

Pro Wrestling is also a sport and again being pre-determined doesn't mean its not a sport because it is.



O


AEW
*AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread 2: OH NO, LET’S GO!*

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* Ozell Gray
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175 Posts
#2,881 • 44 m ago (Edited)


> MJF said:
> Well done, you just described amateur wrestling.
> 
> Anything else you fancy being wrong about?


It doesn't say amateur idiot it says wrestling is a combat sport which includes pro wrestling. And if amateur wrestling is a sport then pro wrestling is a sport also because its still wrestling but you wouldn't know that.
Get App



TNA WRESTLING*Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?*
JOE BURGETTOCTOBER 22, 2008










Some of you have seen wrestling, some of you have not seen it. But what constantly is debated on any sports site has always been is pro-wrestling a sport?
👉I am here to tell you it is👈, and it may be something some of you never thought about. See as a fan of just about every sport out there, I have noticed while watching wrestling I am into it as much as any sport of TV or at any game that I attend.
I can honestly say that wrestling is choreographed, and some of it is not always as real as it seems. When you get kicked in the gut, the man kicking pulls back a bit, but still kicks him, just where it doesn't hurt that much. Is Pro-Wrestling a Sport?

*So, Is Pro Wrestling a Sport or Not?*

The CBSC, which represents nearly 500 radio and television stations and specialty services across Canada, has made a ruling: 👉“While there is no doubt that it does not partake of the nature of Greco-Roman wrestling or even freestyle wrestling, which audiences have been accustomed to watch as a part of, say, the Olympic Games or college sports or elsewhere, the national panel has no doubt about its nature. It is sport👈.” Is Wrestling A Sport? | Faze
So, after reading all of this, is wrestling a sport? According to dictionary.com, 👉this is what the word ‘sport’ is defined as.


> sport
> [spawrt, spohrt]
> noun
> 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
> 2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
> 3. sports, (used with a singular verb) such athletic activities collectively


If we are going off the definition of the word ‘sport’, then yes; WWE and pro wrestling👈, in general, is definitely a sport. Pro wrestlers are some of the most athletic and strongest athletes in the world. If you don’t believe so, look up some of the moves they pull off and tell me otherwise. Is Pro Wrestling a Sport?

So again you're simply wrong so get over it.


----------



## Erik.

Cult03 said:


> Is boxing a sport? It's been fixed a million times over the years. Or do only some of the matches count as sport?
> 
> I remember someone like Jericho claiming wrestling could be at the Olympics if it was reformatted. What if two people got in the ring, did a bunch of moves and someone gave it a score like gymnastics or synchronized diving or synchronized swimming even? Would that automatically make it a sport?


Im seriously arguing with people over whether a pre-determined act of entertainment, a fake form of fighting is a legitimate sport!? 

And people wonder why wrestling fans get a bad name.


----------



## DOTL

NathanMayberry said:


> Here's the thing though. AEW has never been like that for me though. Its a convoluted mess of egos, all trying to get themselves as over as possible. Resulting in a show that doesn't even make logical sense anymore. Had the Coronavirus not happened, we would have had a WarGames match for no other reason than they could.
> 
> Literally every time this company does something great, they somehow find a way to something so cringy that it turns me (and clearly a lot of people) off. How could a show with Jericho, Ambrose, Cody, Omega, Hardy, Harper all "unchained" from the evil Vince McMahon that stifles all creativity be so fucking lame now that they're free?
> 
> Cody on The JBL & Cole show was peak entertainment, he carried little of that over to instead focus on being a bootleg Triple H. Jericho finally gets the keys to be the face of a company and completely lets himself go. Ambrose is now Moxley yet still as bland and unforgettable as ever. He's the Champion, yet his reign is meaningless. Omega is supposed to be the best in the world and one of the best ever, I don't watch Japanese trash but I've heard and seen the New Japan circle jerking, and now that I can finally see Omega regularly all I'm left asking is wtf? Hardy is trying but its clear they need to have a higher authority willing to tell him no, sometimes. Not every idea he has needs to end up on TV. Some of them are legit garbage. Harper came in and continued this lame ass shit "WWE held me back" shit that got old months ago.
> 
> Beyond them, there are so many wrestlers that have no business being on National TV yet are because they are friends with an EVP. Does Tony Khan ever watch the shows he puts on? Or does he simply focus on the feedback he gets from AEW marks on Twitter?


I’m sorry, but the implication that WWE had a better execution of these wrestlers is something I can’t take seriously. It blows. Everyone including the people that work for the company old and new think it blows. The only people that think it’s peak entertainment is Vince McMahon and delusional fanboys with poor taste.

Moxly hasn’t been able to do much of anything just yet as champ, Hardy just got here, Omega consistency performs despite taking a purposeful back seat, Lee just got there, the matches, as illogical as you think they are, are miles better than the mess WWE tries to shovel our way, and all the wrestlers baring a few are fun and have some personality. And Stardust was a whack as hell Vince idea that was an embarrassment undermining any good Cody might have done at that God forsaken company.

And best of all, AEW is willing to improve. WWE doesn’t give a damn about doing better.


----------



## Dizzie

I dont know how a bunch of wwe mark's can gloat and take satisfaction about aew's rating, the wrestling industry like all live event entertainment is being seriously damaged by the China virus and even though I may not agree with aew's booking or some of the wrestlers they have recruited, one thing I cant fault them on since having to work with all these crazy restrictions is their actual effort in trying to put on an entertaining wrestling show as much as they possibly can and they can only do so with what they currently have to work with as they have guys on their roster that cant currently attend shows and it's likely incredibly hard to sign up any new guys at the moment as well.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> I’m sorry, but the implication that WWE had a better execution of these wrestlers is something I can’t take seriously. It blows. Everyone including the people that work for the company old and new think it blows. The only people that think it’s peak entertainment is Vince McMahon and delusional fanboys with poor taste.
> 
> Moxly hasn’t been able to do much of anything just yet as champ, Hardy just got here, Omega consistency performs despite taking a purposeful back seat, Lee just got there, the matches, as illogical as you think they are, are miles better than the mess WWE tries to shovel our way, and all the wrestlers baring a few are fun and have some personality. And Stardust was a whack as hell Vince idea that was an embarrassment undermining any good Cody might have done at that God forsaken company.
> 
> And best of all, AEW is willing to improve. WWE doesn’t give a damn about doing better.


Well WWE made Jericho, Moxley, and Matt Hardy bigger stars than they were previously to WWE. So this idea they couldn't possibly have executed the characters betters is silly. I mean how great is AEW execution of these characters if say Moxley and Jericho when they can't even consistently crack a million viewers?


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Well WWE made Jericho, Moxley, and Matt Hardy bigger stars than they were previously to WWE. So this idea they couldn't possibly have executed the characters betters is silly. I mean how great is AEW execution of these characters if say Moxley and Jericho when they can't even consistently crack a million viewers?


Exposure isn’t quality. Jericho was gold back at WCW. Moxley actually had a character before WWE watered him down as Ambrose. Matt found himself outside of WWE, who cared only about his brother.

You talk about cracking a million. What is Jericho and Mox doing keeping AEW from that? Nothing they’re doing is any worse than what they did in WWE. Actually, it’s better, but it at least isn’t worse. But a new brand needs to have a chance to grow. WWE had that chance long before Vince was in the business. Without his fathers work, he’d never have the platform he does now.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Exposure isn’t quality. Jericho was gold back at WCW. Moxley actually had a character before WWE watered him down as Ambrose. Matt found himself outside of WWE, who cared only about his brother.
> 
> You talk about cracking a million. What is Jericho and Mox doing keeping AEW from that? Nothing they’re doing is any worse than what they did in WWE. Actually, it’s better, but it at least isn’t worse. But a new brand needs to have a chance to grow. WWE had that chance long before Vince was in the business. Without his fathers work, he’d never have the platform he does now.


But the quality of them in WWE is what got them the majority of their fans. Do you think most of Moxley's fan because of his CZW run or his WWE run? Do you think most of Jericho fans come from his undercard WCW days or his 15+ year run in WWE? Do you think most of Matt's fans come from his Impact run or his WWE run? 

If these characters were so much better why aren't more people going out of their way to watch them? Truth is Moxley and Jericho are the same guys they've always been. Matt is different as he didn't get to truly be broken in WWE. But broken Matt has proven to be more of a cult favorite than actual favorite.

No matter how much some of you try you can totally discount that quality has nothing to do numbers.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> But the quality of them in WWE is what got them the majority of their fans. Do you think most of Moxley's fan because of his CZW run or his WWE run? Do you think most of Jericho fans come from his undercard WCW days or his 15+ year run in WWE? Do you think most of Matt's fans come from his Impact run or his WWE run?


This is nonsense in one crucial way. Do you think Jericho and Mox as they are now would fair well in the WWE system or not? If the answer is a truthful YES then you have to admit that WWE booking has less to do with success than WWE’s promotional capabilities.




> If these characters were so much better why aren't more people going out of their way to watch them? Truth is Moxley and Jericho are the same guys they've always been. Matt is different as he didn't get to truly be broken in WWE. But broken Matt has proven to be more of a cult favorite than actual favorite.


The better question is if WWE’s quality is what brings eyes to the show, how can two wrestlers who you argue are the same as they always been not draw at the same levels?

That’s because WWEs booking is less important than its pedigree. Mox and Jericho can be better and not draw as much because they were never bigger draws than WWE itself. That was by design of course.



> No matter how much some of you try you can totally discount that quality has nothing to do numbers.


I’m not discounting anything that WWEs own roster, both former, present,and just about everyone else don’t discount. WWEs own people openly criticize the product all the time. Even HHH shows frustration with it. The friken McMahon family apologized on national tv for this crap.

WWE hasn’t been good in a while. If it were the industry would be in much shape and it’s people would be a lot more fulfilled.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> This is nonsense in one crucial way. Do you think Jericho and Mox as they are now would fair well in the WWE system or not? If the answer is a truthful YES then you have to admit that WWE booking has less to do with success than WWE’s promotional capabilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The better question is if WWE’s quality is what brings eyes to the show, how can two wrestlers who you argue are the same as they always been not draw at the same levels?
> 
> That’s because WWEs booking is less important than its pedigree. Mox and Jericho can be better and not draw as much because they were never bigger draws than WWE itself. That was by design of course.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not discounting anything that WWEs own roster, both former, present,and just about everyone else don’t discount. WWEs own people openly criticize the product all the time. Even HHH shows frustration with it. The friken McMahon family apologized on national tv for this crap.
> 
> WWE hasn’t been good in a while. If it were the industry would be in much shape and it’s people would be a lot more fulfilled.


There's a reason you avoided answering those questions. Because you and I know there was nothing wrong with the quality of those guys characters in WWE. Sure some people get fuck all to work with. But Jericho, Moxley, and Hardy aren't examples of that. Someone like EC3 who was given no chance in his first WWE his first run, went to Impact and made himself into a star only to get no fair shake in WWE a 2nd time. That's an example of doing characters poorly. But former world champions and tag legends that were super over are hardly an examples of not getting a good character in WWE. 

But you're the one who said guys like Jericho and Moxley are doing way better character wise. If that's the case then why aren't they brining in results that would suggest that they're even that much better and improved?

Yeah WWE certainly isn't perfect and has many things they should improve on. On the flip a lot of these same talents will complain about being creatively stiffled only to get free and doing the exact same thing or flop. Very rarely do you get a CJ Parker or EC3 who leaves and makes themselves into a star.


----------



## Britz94xD

If someone told you guys in '95 that the show that held it's debut episode in a shopping mall was going to be more popular than the WWF, you might not have believed them. Ok WCW had way more stars than AEW but it still would've been a tough sell.

AEW will be unrecognisable 3 years from now. For example, Daniel Bryan's contract is up this year, CM Punk stated that Bryan is one of the few guys he'd return to wrestling to fight. If those guys were in AEW then maybe Brock Lesnar might be convinced to join. etc. If this happens, the naysayers are going to look pretty silly.


----------



## RapShepard

Britz94xD said:


> If someone told you guys in '95 that the show that held it's debut episode in a shopping mall was going to be more popular than the WWF, you might not have believed them. Ok WCW had way more stars than AEW but it still would've been a tough sell.
> 
> AEW will be unrecognisable 3 years from now. For example, Daniel Bryan's contract is up this year, CM Punk stated that Bryan is one of the few guys he'd return to wrestling to fight. If those guys were in AEW then maybe Brock Lesnar might be convinced to join. etc. If this happens, the naysayers are going to look pretty silly.


You don't actually believe what you're saying. I mean seriously you're over here going "hey maybe they could get Bryan and Punk and that could lead to Lesnar". I mean sure there's a possibility of that happening and maybe I could hit the mega millions back to back. Neither are outcomes that people would feel silly about getting wrong though.


----------



## Britz94xD

RapShepard said:


> You don't actually believe what you're saying. I mean seriously you're over here going "hey maybe they could get Bryan and Punk and that could lead to Lesnar". I mean sure there's a possibility of that happening and maybe I could hit the mega millions back to back. Neither are outcomes that people would feel silly about getting wrong though.


Shahid Khan could afford to get Lesnar, Bryan and Punk if he wanted to. It's just a question of whether he's willing to spend that amount on wrestling. It's a big risk but not unthinkable. The chance of them going to AEW or staying in WWE are closer to 50/50 than you or I winning the lottery.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MJF said:


> Im seriously arguing with people over whether a pre-determined act of entertainment, a fake form of fighting is a legitimate sport!?
> 
> And people wonder why wrestling fans get a bad name.


to be fair, the gymnastic ribbons is a real sport - at the olympics even

pre-set routine


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> to be fair, the gymnastic ribbons is a real sport - at the olympics even
> 
> pre-set routine


But the winners aren't pre-determined.

Its REAL competition. 

To be fair.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> There's a reason you avoided answering those questions. Because you and I know there was nothing wrong with the quality of those guys characters in WWE. Sure some people get fuck all to work with. But Jericho, Moxley, and Hardy aren't examples of that. Someone like EC3 who was given no chance in his first WWE his first run, went to Impact and made himself into a star only to get no fair shake in WWE a 2nd time. That's an example of doing characters poorly. But former world champions and tag legends that were super over are hardly an examples of not getting a good character in WWE.
> 
> But you're the one who said guys like Jericho and Moxley are doing way better character wise. If that's the case then why aren't they brining in results that would suggest that they're even that much better and improved?
> 
> Yeah WWE certainly isn't perfect and has many things they should improve on. On the flip a lot of these same talents will complain about being creatively stiffled only to get free and doing the exact same thing or flop. Very rarely do you get a CJ Parker or EC3 who leaves and makes themselves into a star.


I didn’t answer the questions because there was nothing to answer that’s not already self evident. Mox and Jericho are doing much better work now than they ever did in WWE. Both were always great promos that get to now choose their own words which will always trump a terrible script, for these guys in particular. You may think you made a great point but no one but the most ardent WWEstan would say that what Jericho is doing now isn’t his best work in decades.

AEW has work to do to become as big as WWE for sure. But quality isn’t where that work needs to be met, relatively speaking. Promotion, name recognition, prestige. They have to be given the same chance that WWE got. It’s as simple as that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MJF said:


> But the winners aren't pre-determined.
> 
> Its REAL competition.
> 
> To be fair.


Toooo beeee faaaiiirrr 

we’re the judges 

ps> only playing, it is a grand athletic endeavour of some proportions that takes sometimes a great combination of almost superhuman athletic feats combined with the ability to weave charisma and storytelling in a fashion to connect with the audience - but its not a sport

its like comic books to me


----------



## Cult03

MJF said:


> Im seriously arguing with people over whether a pre-determined act of entertainment, a fake form of fighting is a legitimate sport!?
> 
> And people wonder why wrestling fans get a bad name.


Sooooo no answer? I wasn't saying wrestling was a sport, just added an anecdote from Chris Jericho. Pretty valid points if you ask me.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> Exposure isn’t quality. Jericho was gold back at WCW. Moxley actually had a character before WWE watered him down as Ambrose. Matt found himself outside of WWE, who cared only about his brother.
> 
> You talk about cracking a million. What is Jericho and Mox doing keeping AEW from that? Nothing they’re doing is any worse than what they did in WWE. Actually, it’s better, but it at least isn’t worse. But a new brand needs to have a chance to grow. WWE had that chance long before Vince was in the business. Without his fathers work, he’d never have the platform he does now.


Moxley is the fucking same as Ambrose and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong or lying. He's still zany and fun instead of an actual loose cannon.


----------



## Cult03

MJF said:


> But the winners aren't pre-determined.
> 
> Its REAL competition.
> 
> To be fair.


Which is why I added the caveat of wrestling being reformatted to make it a sport. Getting real tired of people not being able to read or completely lacking comprehension on this forum


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> Moxley is the fucking same as Ambrose and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong or lying. He's still zany and fun instead of an actual loose cannon.


Even if that were true, and it isn’t, he’s cutting promos like God intended. No crazy old man giving him his words. That will ALWAYS be better.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> Even if that were true, and it isn’t, he’s cutting promos like God intended. No crazy old man giving him his words. That will ALWAYS be better.


It's true and he's still zany Dean Ambrose every single week. If you ever watched him pre-WWE you'd know it's all he can do, unless he copies Heath Ledger's Joker which is how he got by on the indies.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> It's true and he's still zany Dean Ambrose every single week. If you ever watched him pre-WWE you'd know it's all he can do, unless he copies Heath Ledger's Joker which is how he got by on the indies.


But like I said, if that’s the way you read him how is that plus no crappy script not better by default?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Pretty sure USA could put reruns of The Office or Seinfeld in the spot NXT has and do better than 74. I hope they aren't paying too much for NXT.


----------



## RapShepard

Britz94xD said:


> Shahid Khan could afford to get Lesnar, Bryan and Punk if he wanted to. It's just a question of whether he's willing to spend that amount on wrestling. It's a big risk but not unthinkable. The chance of them going to AEW or staying in WWE are closer to 50/50 than you or I winning the lottery.


Then why didn't he do it from the beginning with Punk?


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> I didn’t answer the questions because there was nothing to answer that’s not already self evident. Mox and Jericho are doing much better work now than they ever did in WWE. Both were always great promos that get to now choose their own words which will always trump a terrible script, for these guys in particular. You may think you made a great point but no one but the most ardent WWEstan would say that what Jericho is doing now isn’t his best work in decades.
> 
> AEW has work to do to become as big as WWE for sure. But quality isn’t where that work needs to be met, relatively speaking. Promotion, name recognition, prestige. They have to be given the same chance that WWE got. It’s as simple as that.


Le Champion Jericho certainly isn't more over than The List Jericho or Suit wearing heel Jericho. 

As far as Moxley if you think wearing an eye patch and going on about how the belt is the fans belt is Moxley's best work then I guess lol. 

Your argument for this doesn't hold up outside of you notoriously hating WWE period. But you know darn well if Jericho retired tomorrow what he's doing now wouldn't be near the top of his highlight reel same for Mox. 






DOTL said:


> But like I said, if that’s the way you read him how is that plus no crappy script not better by default?


The thing is some of these promos and habits seem like they'd come straight from WWE. 

If you were just played audio clips of Moxley frequently mentioning "hey this title is for the fans" would you think this was Mox using his own words or Vince trying to make him into a WWE style babyface? Let's be honest folk would think it was some old clip of WWE champion Ambrose being watered down and not free from Vince Moxley


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> But like I said, if that’s the way you read him how is that plus no crappy script not better by default?


Because "by default" isn't a good enough measurement of success. He might surpass his WWE days but WWE got him hugely over considering his standing in places like CZW, before most of the wrestling world even knew he existed. Plus its dishonest to downgrade his time in The Shield as worse than "Dean Ambrose with and eye patch".


----------



## Britz94xD

RapShepard said:


> Then why didn't he do it from the beginning with Punk?


They offered Punk big money but he wasn't interested at the time. But then he appeared on WWE backstage and is now apparently open to wrestling again...for a price.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Toooo beeee faaaiiirrr
> 
> we’re the judges
> 
> ps> only playing, it is a grand athletic endeavour of some proportions that takes sometimes a great combination of almost superhuman athletic feats combined with the ability to weave charisma and storytelling in a fashion to connect with the audience - but its not a sport
> 
> its like comic books to me


Cirque du Soleil, if you will. 

Though not as dangerous to hit the floor.


----------



## Jonhern

Haven't been around and not going to read all of that has been going on, but just to put things in perspective considering the times we live in, last week in primetime they were number 8 on cable, this week number 16. If you look at the top shows it's dominated by news in the afternoon. Anyway, these numbers are not going to really matter in the long run, people are going to be more interested in watching the news than anything else. And obviously ads are going to be on the downtrend too, most businesses are closed and have no need to advertise thier product that people can't buy. Anyone talking Doom and gloom because of these numbers are going to look as foolish as the people doing that over the holidays.


----------



## validreasoning

Cult03 said:


> Because "by default" isn't a good enough measurement of success. He might surpass his WWE days but WWE got him hugely over considering his standing in places like CZW, before most of the wrestling world even knew he existed. Plus its dishonest to downgrade his time in The Shield as worse than "Dean Ambrose with and eye patch".


I think people forget that. Outside some fans online people did not know Jon Moxley pre WWE.

Look at the reaction of the TNA fans towards him

[YouTube]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MJF said:


> Cirque du Soleil, if you will.
> 
> Though not as dangerous to hit the floor.


Little more drama / charisma than Cirque - but ‘yep’ - that is closest. It has Carny origins after all


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Le Champion Jericho certainly isn't more over than The List Jericho or Suit wearing heel Jericho.
> 
> As far as Moxley if you think wearing an eye patch and going on about how the belt is the fans belt is Moxley's best work then I guess lol.
> 
> Your argument for this doesn't hold up outside of you notoriously hating WWE period. But you know darn well if Jericho retired tomorrow what he's doing now wouldn't be near the top of his highlight reel same for Mox.


Being over and being a good performer are two different things. Vanguard 1 is over, and it’s a dumb drone, which is the joke. The list was over, but that was an old WCW idea repurposed for the WWE audience. But on a whole,Jericho is coming up with new ideas like that every week he’s on air, right now. This week he just released the hounds. There ain’t no way you can convince me Jericho doing more of what he’s good at is not better than two or three things he was able to do in WWE.

You think that’s the best stuff? You talk about the list? You talk about suits? I was laughing about Ralfus and the 1004 holds before most WWE people knew who Chris Jericho was. Jericho was/is legit one of my favorite wrestlers since before he even turned heel in WCW.
Just because something is more well known doesn’t make it better.

And great job limiting Mox’s success to that one period where he had an eye patch on and made that one promo. He was treated like the third wheel in the SHIELD, and the other guys were chosen over him when that overhyped group broke up. He’s better now because he gets to make his own choices and is on the tippy top of the card. It’s that simple. And the great thing is it’s only just begun.





> The thing is some of these promos and habits seem like they'd come straight from WWE.
> 
> If you were just played audio clips of Moxley frequently mentioning "hey this title is for the fans" would you think this was Mox using his own words or Vince trying to make him into a WWE style babyface? Let's be honest folk would think it was some old clip of WWE champion Ambrose being watered down and not free from Vince Moxley


 Yeah habits that do them no credit. I don’t see how this helps the WWE is fine quality argument. Mox is free to amend his approach but Ambrose would have to saddle that dead horse and try to ride it into town.


----------



## punkypower

Sad--but not all that surprised--to see the ratings (shocked to see MTV The Challenge as #2--as someone who watched RW and RR from the beginning, I thought it hadn't been relevant since around the time Miz stopped doing the Challenges/the time I stopped watching).

What interests me more is I'm finally getting around to watching this week's Dark, and the views are only slightly less than Dynamite at 557,442! Compared to what viewership for Dark was a few months ago, do you guys think AEW is gaining more hardcore fans, a result of quarantine, or something else?

Thanks!


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> Because "by default" isn't a good enough measurement of success. He might surpass his WWE days but WWE got him hugely over considering his standing in places like CZW, before most of the wrestling world even knew he existed. Plus its dishonest to downgrade his time in The Shield as worse than "Dean Ambrose with and eye patch".


No one is saying WWE didn’t help his career. I’m saying what exactly did he do in The Shield specifically that was so great? Being specific. What in WWE, besides increased notoriety did Jon Goode accomplish? 

Was it plant care? The three man power bomb? Creative wise, what is he missing now that he had then?


----------



## sideon

Pippen94 said:


> TV deal the biggest achieved other than by wwe. Aew venues this year have been in smaller markets. NY sold over 10,000 & Chicago sold out.


NY & CHI are big wrestling cities so that's not surprising, they have trouble selling outside of that.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Being over and being a good performer are two different things. Vanguard 1 is over, and it’s a dumb drone, which is the joke. The list was over, but that was an old WCW idea repurposed for the WWE audience. But on a whole,Jericho is coming up with new ideas like that every week he’s on air, right now. This week he just released the hounds. There ain’t no way you can convince me Jericho doing more of what he’s good at is not better than two or three things he was able to do in WWE.
> 
> You think that’s the best stuff? You talk about the list? You talk about suits? I was laughing about Ralfus and the 1004 holds before most WWE people knew who Chris Jericho was. Jericho was/is legit one of my favorite wrestlers since before he even turned heel in WCW.
> Just because something is more well known doesn’t make it better.
> 
> And great job limiting Mox’s success to that one period where he had an eye patch on and made that one promo. He was treated like the third wheel in the SHIELD, and the other guys were chosen over him when that overhyped group broke up. He’s better now because he gets to make his own choices and is on the tippy top of the card. It’s that simple. And the great thing is it’s only just begun.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah habits that do them no credit. I don’t see how this helps the WWE is fine quality argument. Mox is free to amend his approach but Ambrose would have to saddle that dead horse and try to ride it into town.


Yeah Ralfus and 1004 holds was fun. But you'd be in a minority if you think folk are picking Le Champion over suit Jericho. As far as Jericho doing more of what he's good at, by what standard. Jericho has spent the majority of his career being random and silly. So pretending this is something he's finally getting a chance to do is bull shit. He still does a bunch of silly shit while chucking out his most recent catch phrase. On top of that none of his segments in AEW have surpassed the festival of friendship. 

As far as Moxley when the Shield was together folk thought Rollins was the 3rd wheel, so revisionist history doesn't work here. Ambrose was presented as the first leader to the point he was the one getting the singles matches and had the singles title. 

My proof of WWE quality is fine works for this very simple point. You are praising them for their current character, despite their being no discernable change between them and their WWE character. It would be one thing if you were pointing out a Brodie or Cody who are vastly different from their WWE selfs. What you're doing is the equivalent of when sports fans give star athletes extra props just because they're now on their team.






DOTL said:


> No one is saying WWE didn’t help his career. I’m saying what exactly did he do in The Shield specifically that was so great? Being specific. What in WWE, besides increased notoriety did Jon Goode accomplish?
> 
> Was it plant care? The three man power bomb? Creative wise, what is he missing now that he had then?


He became a grand slam champion, gained the vast majority of his fans there, easily one of the most successful wrestlers of the 2010s there, found his wife. Got big enough there that he walked into AEW as the type of guy they'd book so strong that he's undefeated in singles competition, their champion, and one or two matches away from destroying their main event stable by himself. 

I mean do you think a Moxley who didn't have his WWE success gets such a push in AEW?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Jonhern said:


> Haven't been around and not going to read all of that has been going on, but just to put things in perspective considering the times we live in, last week in primetime they were number 8 on cable, this week number 16. If you look at the top shows it's dominated by news in the afternoon. Anyway, these numbers are not going to really matter in the long run, people are going to be more interested in watching the news than anything else. And obviously ads are going to be on the downtrend too, most businesses are closed and have no need to advertise thier product that people can't buy. Anyone talking Doom and gloom because of these numbers are going to look as foolish as the people doing that over the holidays.


The news isn't why Dynamite's tv ratings went down they went down because the shows weren't great. And if the news is your argument then explain this for me

Friday's _WrestleMania_ go-home episode of _SmackDown_ drew an average of 2.375 million viewers in the overnight ratings, according to Showbuzz Daily. Hour one drew 2.407 million viewers, then hour two dropped to 2.342 million viewers.
_SmackDown_ also drew an average of 0.6 rating in the 18-49 demographic, which was tied for #4 for the night. _Shark Tank_ and _Hawaii Five-O_ topped the night at 0.9.
👉If the number holds up, it would be up slightly from last Friday's _SmackDown_ episode👈, which drew an average of 2.367 million viewers with a 0.8 rating in the 18-49 demographic.https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/04/overnight-ratings-for-wrestlemania-go-home-episode-of-wwe-668783/

How come Smackdown's viewership went up? Theres news COVID19 news on at the same time as Smackdown so how come it didn't decline like Dynamite did?

So this proves the oh well everyone's watching the news and worried about the virus and thats why Dynamite declined is a lie because Smackdown's viewership increased despite the news being on at the sametime as Smackdown.

As a matter of fact shows on TBS beat in tv ratings Dynamite AND THEY WERE ON AT THE SAME TIME AS THE NEWS as well. So the news isn't why Dynamite declined it declined because like Meltzer said the shows since Matt Hardy's and Brodie Lee's debuts haven't been good. 

Heres what Dave Meltzer said about Dynamite's tv ratings decline

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246118038216335360
So if you don't think this is a doom and gloom for AEW then you're going to look even more foolish then you do already.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Yeah Ralfus and 1004 holds was fun. But you'd be in a minority if you think folk are picking Le Champion over suit Jericho. As far as Jericho doing more of what he's good at, by what standard. Jericho has spent the majority of his career being random and silly. So pretending this is something he's finally getting a chance to do is bull shit. He still does a bunch of silly shit while chucking out his most recent catch phrase. On top of that none of his segments in AEW have surpassed the festival of friendship.


HAHAHAHA. I’m sorry, but suit Jericho is almost the least memorable version of Jericho right before Lightbright Jericho. The festival of friendship could fall off the face of the history and nothing would change. Nothing he did in WWE was more entertaining than what he’s doing now and only a few things were on par, most of which happened when the Rock was still on the show. Not only that, he has a few things he reused in WWE that were repurposed WCW things. Now he makes that careers worth of creative decisions on the weekly in AEW and NJPW. Even if you made the misguided argument that his WWE stuff is the same, just the sheer rate at which he produces new stuff means he’s operating more effectively than he’s ever done. His work is better. And the praise he’s getting now is higher than any other point in his career.

Jericho never had a bad moment, but there’s something to be said about looking outside of WWE when developing your taste.



> As far as Moxley when the Shield was together folk thought Rollins was the 3rd wheel, so revisionist history doesn't work here. Ambrose was presented as the first leader to the point he was the one getting the singles matches and had the singles title.


 And how did that work out for him? Both Rollins and Reigns were chosen over him to the point he was the only one who felt as if leaving a huge paycheck was the best decision for his life. So, again. Third wheel.



> My proof of WWE quality is fine works for this very simple point. You are praising them for their current character, despite their being no discernable change between them and their WWE character. It would be one thing if you were pointing out a Brodie or Cody who are vastly different from their WWE selfs. What you're doing is the equivalent of when sports fans give star athletes extra props just because they're now on their team.


That’s bullshit. There’s a operational difference between AEW and WWE that would make what they’re doing now impossible in the latter. These aren’t my words. It’s theirs. Just because there’s continuity in a few of their decisions doesn’t mean they are being driven by WWE creative. Jericho gets to have bloodfeuds with Matt Hardy’s drones. Mox gets to curse and speak his mind in the middle of the ring.
These things were impossible in PG era WWE unless Vince himself wanted it.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> HAHAHAHA. I’m sorry, but suit Jericho is the least memorable version of Jericho. The festival of friendship could fall off the face of the history and nothing would change. Nothing he did in WWE was more entertaining as what he’s doing now and only a few things were on par. And to illustrate that, he has a few things he reused in WWE, many were repurposed WCW things. Now he makes that careers worth of creative decisions on the weekly in AEW and NJPW. Even if you made the misguided argument that his WWE stuff is the same, just the sheer rate at which he produces new stuff means he’s operating more effectively than he’s ever done.
> 
> There’s something to be said about looking outside of WWE when developing your taste.
> 
> And how did that work out for him? Both Rollins and Reigns were chosen over him to the point he was the only one who felt as if leaving a huge paycheck was the best decision for his life. So, again. Third wheel.
> 
> 
> That’s bullshit. There’s a operational difference between AEW and WWE that would make what they’re doing now impossible in the latter. These aren’t my words. It’s theirs. Just because there’s continuity in a few of their decisions doesn’t mean they are being driven by WWE creative. Jericho gets to have bloodfeuds with Matt Hardy’s drones. Mox gets to curse and speak his mind in the middle of the ring.
> These things were impossible in WWE unless Vince himself wanted it.


Suit Jericho arguing with Bob Barker is much more memorable than him arguing with a drone. Festival of Friendship is more memorable than him mocking Cody which was great. You know this and I know this. It's okay to admit the truth despite you not liking WWE. I don't like NJPW, but I wouldn't pretend that Gallows and Anderson weren't better off there. 

Moxley without The Shield and WWE push that saw him become a grand slam champion doesn't even get the chance to get treated this well in AEW. Do you think a Moxley that spent the 2010s in CZW comes to AEW and gets a top guy push?

The thing its hard to buy into the "now they're free from WWE shackles" angle with somebody like Jericho and Moxley when everything they've done lines up with shit they'd have done in WWE from a creative standpoint. Its even harder to play that angle when they're both displaying some of the negative things folk rightfully dislike about WWE writing. Such as overusing of catchphrases (Jericho), pandering to the crowd (Moxley), and doing things that make no real sense (Moxley wrestling an entire match against Jericho with an eyepatch to "trick" him). 

Also do you know what a blood feud is? If Jericho and Matt is a blood feud then clearly you think all feuds are blood feuds.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> He became a grand slam champion, gained the vast majority of his fans there, easily one of the most successful wrestlers of the 2010s there, found his wife. Got big enough there that he walked into AEW as the type of guy they'd book so strong that he's undefeated in singles competition, their champion, and one or two matches away from destroying their main event stable by himself.
> 
> I mean do you think a Moxley who didn't have his WWE success gets such a push in AEW?


 The fact you have to throw his wife in there, which is personal and not professional means you’re reaching.

Everything you say is just reframed ways of saying, he was popular. I don’t deny that. Note that you don’t mention anything he’s accomplished creatively, which is my point.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> The fact you have to throw his wife in there, which is personal and not professional means you’re reaching.
> 
> Everything you say is just reframed ways of saying, he was popular. I don’t deny that. Note that you don’t mention anything he’s accomplished creatively, which is my point.


He's dead ass doing the same style of things creatively. He's still a semi-violent semi-wacky babyface. If you actually watched Ambrose and AEW Moxley, nothing AEW Moxley is doing is something that creatively wouldn't match Ambrose. I mean we've seen Ambrose go after big name targets in WWE like Taker and Brock. We've also seen him him be a guy who's wacky. 

You can't point to this creative accomplishments because nothing he's done in AEW would really be a highlight creatively. I mean unless you're going to tell me wearing an eye patch for a bit and saying ass sometimes is a creative highlight for Moxley.


----------



## DOTL

Edit: NVM. I don’t want to go on and on about what is really just a matter of opinion.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> He's dead ass doing the same style of things creatively. He's still a semi-violent semi-wacky babyface. If you actually watched Ambrose and AEW Moxley, nothing AEW Moxley is doing is something that creatively wouldn't match Ambrose. I mean we've seen Ambrose go after big name targets in WWE like Taker and Brock. We've also seen him him be a guy who's wacky.
> 
> You can't point to this creative accomplishments because nothing he's done in AEW would really be a highlight creatively. I mean unless you're going to tell me wearing an eye patch for a bit and saying ass sometimes is a creative highlight for Moxley.


As I said before, if you think it’s the same, great. Now add freedom for a guy like him to cut his own damn promos and it’s automatically better.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

DOTL said:


> Being over and being a good performer are two different things. Vanguard 1 is over, and it’s a dumb drone, which is the joke. The list was over, but that was an old WCW idea repurposed for the WWE audience. But on a whole,Jericho is coming up with new ideas like that every week he’s on air, right now. This week he just released the hounds. There ain’t no way you can convince me Jericho doing more of what he’s good at is not better than two or three things he was able to do in WWE.
> 
> You think that’s the best stuff? You talk about the list? You talk about suits? I was laughing about Ralfus and the 1004 holds before most WWE people knew who Chris Jericho was. Jericho was/is legit one of my favorite wrestlers since before he even turned heel in WCW.
> Just because something is more well known doesn’t make it better.
> 
> And great job limiting Mox’s success to that one period where he had an eye patch on and made that one promo. He was treated like the third wheel in the SHIELD, and the other guys were chosen over him when that overhyped group broke up. He’s better now because he gets to make his own choices and is on the tippy top of the card. It’s that simple. And the great thing is it’s only just begun.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah habits that do them no credit. I don’t see how this helps the WWE is fine quality argument. Mox is free to amend his approach but Ambrose would have to saddle that dead horse and try to ride it into town.


There is a difference between being popular and being over. The AEW live audience cheer just about anything and every one. To the live audience, Marko is popular enough with them to get cheered. But he is not over enough with them to sell tickets or draw ratings.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Edit: NVM. I don’t want to go on and on about what is really just a matter of opinion.


Fair enough man


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> No one is saying WWE didn’t help his career. I’m saying what exactly did he do in The Shield specifically that was so great? Being specific. What in WWE, besides increased notoriety did Jon Goode accomplish?
> 
> Was it plant care? The three man power bomb? Creative wise, what is he missing now that he had then?


Not much, he's always been average, zany and a Joker copycat to me. But that's my point. He's still a zany, Joker copycat but with an eye patch. Won't be shit until he becomes a proper loose cannon and stops sucking up to fans


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> Not much, he's always been average, zany and a Joker copycat to me. But that's my point. He's still a zany, Joker copycat but with an eye patch. Won't be shit until he becomes a proper loose cannon and stops sucking up to fans


You guys are really overselling the eyepatch thing.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> You guys are really overselling the eyepatch thing.


It's the only difference between Dean Ambrose and Jon Moxley. Apart from the fact that he gets to write his own WWE-like promos and perform them on a different show. Plus he beat a fully fit PAC with one eye and I'm still shitty about that. Was actually a really shit thing to do


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> It's the only difference between Dean Ambrose and Jon Moxley. Apart from the fact that he gets to write his own WWE-like promos and perform them on a different show. Plus he beat a fully fit PAC with one eye and I'm still shitty about that. Was actually a really shit thing to do


It really isn’t. His being to write his own stuff shows. No one but the most ardent WWE nut would say his stuff now ain’t better than his stuff then. The fact you guys gotta keep bringing up the eyepatch as if it were some big deal reveals the weakness of this whole position. The patch wasn’t even his gimmick. It was just a consequence of the story.


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> It really isn’t. His being to write his own stuff shows. No one but the most ardent WWE not would say his stuff now ain’t better than his stuff then. The fact you guys gotta keep bringing up the eyepatch as if it were some big deal reveals the weakness of this whole position. The patch wasn’t his gimmick, it was something he wore due to something someone DID TO HIM. Santana too for a bit.
> It’s called selling. Just think how ridiculous it would be if he was perfectly unharmed after getting STABBED IN THE EYE. His character just wore it longer than necessary for strategic purposes.


The eye patch being spoken about is a strength in our position as it is literally the only difference between his time in WWE and AEW. Him writing his own stuff doesn't show because he's still saying the same crap.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> The eye patch being spoken about is a strength in our position as it is literally the only difference between his time in WWE and AEW. Him writing his own stuff doesn't show because he's still saying the same crap.


I understand why you have to say that. If he was indeed better served, and he is, in AEW, you’d have to admit they’re doing something right.

I’ll ask you this. Do you deny his stock would go up if he went back to WWE as Jon Moxley?


----------



## Cult03

DOTL said:


> I understand why you have to say that. If he was indeed better served, and he is, in AEW, you’d have to admit they’re doing something right.
> 
> I’ll ask you this. Do you deny his stock would go up if he went back to WWE as Jon Moxley?


I absolutely do not. I think he'd still be an upper midcarder that sometimes gets a main event spot, but he would still be the same character.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

DOTL said:


> I understand why you have to say that. If he was indeed better served, and he is, in AEW, you’d have to admit they’re doing something right.
> 
> I’ll ask you this. Do you deny his stock would go up if he went back to WWE as Jon Moxley?


There is still a larger nu.ber of the wrestling audience that knows who Dean Ambrose is while having no clue who Jon Moxley is. A small percentage follows both brands, but the Universe is much larger than the hardcore wrestling fan.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Is this your opinion again or is it fact; where are official aew ppv numbers breaking down domestic buys? ECW best is 99,000 - can you certainly say no aew ppv did better in usa?
> Aew attendance's solid given most shows this year in smaller markets; biggest sales in Chicago & NY.
> No USA company has come close to this attendance since wcw.
> NJPW sold out msg.
> Just because you don't understand how TV works; don't compare 2000 ratings to today & season premiere numbers always drop off!


Meltzer has basically admitted that AEW gets about 65k PPV buys. 99k is a bigger number than 65k.

You keep mentioning “since WCW.” Yo, there hasn’t been anything since WCW. It isn’t anything to brag about. 



Britz94xD said:


> If someone told you guys in '95 that the show that held it's debut episode in a shopping mall was going to be more popular than the WWF, you might not have believed them. Ok WCW had way more stars than AEW but it still would've been a tough sell.
> 
> AEW will be unrecognisable 3 years from now. For example, Daniel Bryan's contract is up this year, CM Punk stated that Bryan is one of the few guys he'd return to wrestling to fight. If those guys were in AEW then maybe Brock Lesnar might be convinced to join. etc. If this happens, the naysayers are going to look pretty silly.


Lol, these are the sorts of moves they should have made months ago, but didn’t either because of nepotism or being too silly to convince anyone to sign. 



DOTL said:


> I understand why you have to say that. If he was indeed better served, and he is, in AEW, you’d have to admit they’re doing something right.
> 
> I’ll ask you this. Do you deny his stock would go up if he went back to WWE as Jon Moxley?


If Moxley went back to the WWE he would probably go back as Dean Ambrose. That’s how more people know him.


----------



## DOTL

Cult03 said:


> I absolutely do not. I think he'd still be an upper midcarder that sometimes gets a main event spot, but he would still be the same character.


So. A demotion. Ok.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> So. A demotion. Ok.


A demotion for more money and more notoriety? Sure.

Moxley is playing big fish, small pond. Good for him, but you are delusional if you think there is anything exceptionally different between his WWE and AEW performances. You might enjoy them more. That’s on you, but he is Zany Dean Ambrose with an eyepatch, and there is no way you can reasonably argue against his most significant work being in The Shield.


----------



## Britz94xD

The Wood said:


> Lol, these are the sorts of moves they should have made months ago, but didn’t either because of nepotism or being too silly to convince anyone to sign.


True they let Punk slip through their fingers but he seems more open to wrestling than last year. Bryan and Lesnar's contracts end this year apparently. 

There was rumours that they talked to Edge, Batista and Goldberg but got out bid by WWE.

Rey Mysterio will probably use his out clause and go to AEW. So potentially Rey, Punk, Bryan and (less likely) Lesnar could be in AEW by the end of the year. If one of them goes, then the others would be more likely to go as well.

Does that sound unrealistic?


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> True they let Punk slip through their fingers but he seems more open to wrestling than last year. Bryan and Lesnar's contracts end this year apparently.
> 
> There was rumours that they talked to Edge, Batista and Goldberg but got out bid by WWE.
> 
> Rey Mysterio will probably use his out clause and go to AEW. So potentially Rey, Punk, Bryan and (less likely) Lesnar could be in AEW by the end of the year. If one of them goes, then the others would be more likely to go as well.
> 
> Does that sound unrealistic?


Yes, it does sound unrealistic. Again, these are the moves they should have made at the start. They should have gone after AJ, Nakamura, Punk, The Usos, Orton — they all signed with WWE. A lot of the optimism about AEW was that there was finally a player with money. Nope.

Rey signed with WWE over AEW. Bryan will stay with the media empire that can prop up his wife. Brock would refuse to share a ring with so much of the AEW roster. Brock values being a star and AEW would kill his credibility. I have a strong feeling that is why AEW missed out on Punk and Orton too. They’re stars who take carry themselves with an air of professional pride.

AEW’s best chance to get genuine stars was at the start, where this had the feeling of endless possibilities. It is now a PWG show starring Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley that most wrestling fans don’t even know about. It is going to be an upwards battle for AEW to sign anyone that isn’t cast off from WWE or doesn’t go completely sideways with Vince.

They had their chance. They blew it because of nepotism and because they couldn’t help themselves but do the silly stuff (which Tony Khan has actually flat-out admitted was a mistake himself). That is why I have been so disappointed in them.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Meltzer has basically admitted that AEW gets about 65k PPV buys. 99k is a bigger number than 65k.
> 
> You keep mentioning “since WCW.” Yo, there hasn’t been anything since WCW. It isn’t anything to brag about.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, these are the sorts of moves they should have made months ago, but didn’t either because of nepotism or being too silly to convince anyone to sign.
> 
> 
> 
> If Moxley went back to the WWE he would probably go back as Dean Ambrose. That’s how more people know him.


No - last 4 ppvs have all done over 100,000. What % is overseas?


----------



## Britz94xD

Good points, They did miss out on a lot of big names but maybe they can remedy that this year. AJ, Nakamura and Orton's careers are winding down so one can't blame them for staying in WWE, and no one cares about the Usos.

Rey is friends with all the AEW guys so he will most likely go there eventually. Same with Jeff Hardy.

I'm sure Lesnar would happily share a ring with Omega, Cody, Jericho and Moxley.

No one knew what AEW was going to be this time last year. You can't expect guys to leave the relative safety of the WWE and risk going to an upstart promotion with no track record. But now AEW earned themselves a new TV deal with TNT, It's much less of a risk for talent to go there now than 12 months ago.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> No - last 4 ppvs have all done over 100,000. What % is overseas?


About a third. 33k come from places like the UK and Australia. Meltzer amalgamates all the data together to make them sound bigger, and he can say things like they draw more than ECW. Never mind that ECW's PPVs weren't delivered via the internet, all over the world, to multiple potential devices on demand. If you wanted an ECW PPV, you had to live in North America and call up your PPV provider and ensure that you had access to a TV with a box at a certain time of day. AEW's accessibility is WAY higher than ECW's was.



Britz94xD said:


> Good points, They did miss out on a lot of big names but maybe they can remedy that this year. AJ, Nakamura and Orton's careers are winding down so one can't blame them for staying in WWE, and no one cares about the Usos.
> 
> Rey is friends with all the AEW guys so he will most likely go there eventually. Same with Jeff Hardy.
> 
> I'm sure Lesnar would happily share a ring with Omega, Cody, Jericho and Moxley.
> 
> No one knew what AEW was going to be this time last year. You can't expect guys to leave the relative safety of the WWE and risk going to an upstart promotion with no track record. But now AEW earned themselves a new TV deal with TNT, It's much less of a risk for talent to go there now than 12 months ago.


I don't blame the talent for signing with WWE. They did what they felt secure in doing. You say that no one cares about The Usos, but because of their exposure in the WWE, they would automatically be bigger stars than anyone in the tag team division. The fans would also eat up them jumping, and their connection to _that_ family lends credibility to the promotion. If they entered a brothers vs. brothers vs. brothers feud with The Young Bucks and The Lucha Bros? AEW fans would be creaming themselves.

Rey is friends with the All Elite guys, but he was also friends with them at All In when he decided to sign with WWE. You don't think one of them gave Rey the iggy that he might want to hold out on that WWE deal? He took the WWE deal for whatever reason -- security, legacy, exposure, to get his son connected, whatever -- but I wouldn't say it's "most likely" he goes to AEW. I think it's more likely he backs the decision he consciously made in 2018.

Jeff Hardy? Could go either way. Those Hardy brothers sure like their "creative freedom." It's not off to a hot start for Matt though. And it honestly seems like Jeff's demons actually do get in the way of his relationship with Matt. Jeff is also charismatic as hell, and it's possible that some people in AEW would feel threatened by that. WWE are also paying out the ass and will no doubt pay him seven figures to stay and basically put him on cruise control. If he's not bored and WWE is good for his head space (he seems to run into trouble when he's off injured or has too much free time on his hands), then he might choose to stay there.

Brock ain't a fan of Moxley. See WrestleMania 32 and Brock's flex. Omega? Um, I could see it, but it depends what Brock thinks of him. He's got the old school mentality. He was trained by Danny Davis and Jim Cornette. He's about guys that can really sell for him. Omega is pretty bad at selling, so it might not be a good fit. Or Brock might love the idea of making him sell, haha. Or he might just be a fan of the movez and think he could do something spectacular. Cody? He's turned into a great babyface, but is his style the sort Brock would really want to work with, or would he find it a bit weird selling for him? Jericho? Talent wouldn't be an issue there, but if Brock thinks Jericho's a dick because of their history then he might not want to give the guy the time of day.

But when I said that I was more talking about the other guys. The guys that Tony Khan is now starting to shuffle onto Dark. The guys that make it look like anyone can be a wrestler and therefore diminish the aura of the main event guys, whether they're in the same segment or not. And yeah, there's lots of crazy shit in WWE too, but they are still the industry leader and have been since the time Brock broke in. They're the circus and people know that. But that doesn't mean Brock is going to go and suck eggs at the freak show.

No one knew was AEW was going to be 12 months ago, which is where their leverage was. The money was there which had EVERYONE'S attention piqued (I know this for a fact, unless someone with inside knowledge blatantly lied to me). There was talk of health benefits. The schedule looked appealing. A lot of people snubbed AEW's chances of getting top names from the WWE, but there has never been a real true alternative. And they got Jericho and Jim Ross. Those are two guys that people would have been saying were with WWE for life had they not signed. But the reality is that when this thing had potential, Tony Khan could offer them the biggest deals of their lives. There was credibility and prestige to this thing. You sit down AJ Styles and you offer him $5 million per year for 5 years with health benefits for him and his family? 30 dates? Yeah, he's talking to you. He may not sign. He could take it to Vince, he could just be a loyal guy or even friends with the psychopath, but he'd talk to you. Same with CM Punk. If you get AJ Styles and CM Punk? Maybe you get Shinsuke Nakamura? Maybe you get Randy Orton? And when you've got AJ Styles, CM Punk, Shinsuke Nakamura & Randy Orton? Maybe you get more than 900k viewers and maybe you can ask for more than $45 million?

Hell, not signing CM Punk might be one of the quietest but important "non-events" in wrestling history. It was all there for him. The money. He loves wrestling. He hates Vince. Boom. It's not just that they didn't sign Punk so much as they _couldn't_ sign Punk. I think that sent some psychic ripples through the wrestling world that has helped convince a lot of people to stay with WWE. I think it made a lot of people ask why he didn't go. And now wrestlers know what the score is. They'd be taking a downgrade in exposure and prestige. They'd be on a show with an inconsistent tone and need to play nice with guys that really should have washed out in a business with any credibility. Your peers would include Joey Janela, Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. That makes your job harder. You also know that the money coming in is not on Vince McMahon's scale. Shad Khan can pay you what you ask for, but you also know they are having discussions about the profitability of everything. It's not anywhere near as secure as a lot of people make out. The Khans can keep AEW running as a vanity project forever, but that doesn't mean they will. We do not know what Shad Khan's level of investment in this thing is. He may be happy with $135 million over three years, but knowing how much Vince McMahon makes out of this wrestling thing might set his fuse shorter.

I truly believe AEW was in a much better position when it was a concept, because the idea that a billionaire would be pumping money into a big arena promotion that could afford to pay guys more than they ever had potentially shifted us into a post-Vince world. AJ Styles would have never needed to even take a phone call from the man again. But the actuality of AEW is that you you need to swallow pride to make that living. That's their fault and I am salty about it.

There is room for a viable alternative to Vince McMahon's circus. There are plenty of top name guys who would absolutely relish the chance to be able to cut their own promos and put together their own matches and actually carry out angles with heat. There are guys that I am sure would love the honest-to-god chance to actually draw and try and be stars bigger than a brand that constantly humiliates them. It ain't AEW though. It's like storming out of theatre class just to find the AV club. Some of these guys want to do fucking sports. _That's_ a promotion that could get a Brock Lesnar and really use him. That's a promotion that could secure an AJ Styles or Bryan Danielson or CM Punk. And to be honest, that's the sort of thing that I thought Jim Ross thought he was getting, and you can hear it in his voice.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> About a third. 33k come from places like the UK and Australia. Meltzer amalgamates all the data together to make them sound bigger, and he can say things like they draw more than ECW. Never mind that ECW's PPVs weren't delivered via the internet, all over the world, to multiple potential devices on demand. If you wanted an ECW PPV, you had to live in North America and call up your PPV provider and ensure that you had access to a TV with a box at a certain time of day. AEW's accessibility is WAY higher than ECW's was.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame the talent for signing with WWE. They did what they felt secure in doing. You say that no one cares about The Usos, but because of their exposure in the WWE, they would automatically be bigger stars than anyone in the tag team division. The fans would also eat up them jumping, and their connection to _that_ family lends credibility to the promotion. If they entered a brothers vs. brothers vs. brothers feud with The Young Bucks and The Lucha Bros? AEW fans would be creaming themselves.
> 
> Rey is friends with the All Elite guys, but he was also friends with them at All In when he decided to sign with WWE. You don't think one of them gave Rey the iggy that he might want to hold out on that WWE deal? He took the WWE deal for whatever reason -- security, legacy, exposure, to get his son connected, whatever -- but I wouldn't say it's "most likely" he goes to AEW. I think it's more likely he backs the decision he consciously made in 2018.
> 
> Jeff Hardy? Could go either way. Those Hardy brothers sure like their "creative freedom." It's not off to a hot start for Matt though. And it honestly seems like Jeff's demons actually do get in the way of his relationship with Matt. Jeff is also charismatic as hell, and it's possible that some people in AEW would feel threatened by that. WWE are also paying out the ass and will no doubt pay him seven figures to stay and basically put him on cruise control. If he's not bored and WWE is good for his head space (he seems to run into trouble when he's off injured or has too much free time on his hands), then he might choose to stay there.
> 
> Brock ain't a fan of Moxley. See WrestleMania 32 and Brock's flex. Omega? Um, I could see it, but it depends what Brock thinks of him. He's got the old school mentality. He was trained by Danny Davis and Jim Cornette. He's about guys that can really sell for him. Omega is pretty bad at selling, so it might not be a good fit. Or Brock might love the idea of making him sell, haha. Or he might just be a fan of the movez and think he could do something spectacular. Cody? He's turned into a great babyface, but is his style the sort Brock would really want to work with, or would he find it a bit weird selling for him? Jericho? Talent wouldn't be an issue there, but if Brock thinks Jericho's a dick because of their history then he might not want to give the guy the time of day.
> 
> But when I said that I was more talking about the other guys. The guys that Tony Khan is now starting to shuffle onto Dark. The guys that make it look like anyone can be a wrestler and therefore diminish the aura of the main event guys, whether they're in the same segment or not. And yeah, there's lots of crazy shit in WWE too, but they are still the industry leader and have been since the time Brock broke in. They're the circus and people know that. But that doesn't mean Brock is going to go and suck eggs at the freak show.
> 
> No one knew was AEW was going to be 12 months ago, which is where their leverage was. The money was there which had EVERYONE'S attention piqued (I know this for a fact, unless someone with inside knowledge blatantly lied to me). There was talk of health benefits. The schedule looked appealing. A lot of people snubbed AEW's chances of getting top names from the WWE, but there has never been a real true alternative. And they got Jericho and Jim Ross. Those are two guys that people would have been saying were with WWE for life had they not signed. But the reality is that when this thing had potential, Tony Khan could offer them the biggest deals of their lives. There was credibility and prestige to this thing. You sit down AJ Styles and you offer him $5 million per year for 5 years with health benefits for him and his family? 30 dates? Yeah, he's talking to you. He may not sign. He could take it to Vince, he could just be a loyal guy or even friends with the psychopath, but he'd talk to you. Same with CM Punk. If you get AJ Styles and CM Punk? Maybe you get Shinsuke Nakamura? Maybe you get Randy Orton? And when you've got AJ Styles, CM Punk, Shinsuke Nakamura & Randy Orton? Maybe you get more than 900k viewers and maybe you can ask for more than $45 million?
> 
> Hell, not signing CM Punk might be one of the quietest but important "non-events" in wrestling history. It was all there for him. The money. He loves wrestling. He hates Vince. Boom. It's not just that they didn't sign Punk so much as they _couldn't_ sign Punk. I think that sent some psychic ripples through the wrestling world that has helped convince a lot of people to stay with WWE. I think it made a lot of people ask why he didn't go. And now wrestlers know what the score is. They'd be taking a downgrade in exposure and prestige. They'd be on a show with an inconsistent tone and need to play nice with guys that really should have washed out in a business with any credibility. Your peers would include Joey Janela, Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. That makes your job harder. You also know that the money coming in is not on Vince McMahon's scale. Shad Khan can pay you what you ask for, but you also know they are having discussions about the profitability of everything. It's not anywhere near as secure as a lot of people make out. The Khans can keep AEW running as a vanity project forever, but that doesn't mean they will. We do not know what Shad Khan's level of investment in this thing is. He may be happy with $135 million over three years, but knowing how much Vince McMahon makes out of this wrestling thing might set his fuse shorter.
> 
> I truly believe AEW was in a much better position when it was a concept, because the idea that a billionaire would be pumping money into a big arena promotion that could afford to pay guys more than they ever had potentially shifted us into a post-Vince world. AJ Styles would have never needed to even take a phone call from the man again. But the actuality of AEW is that you you need to swallow pride to make that living. That's their fault and I am salty about it.
> 
> There is room for a viable alternative to Vince McMahon's circus. There are plenty of top name guys who would absolutely relish the chance to be able to cut their own promos and put together their own matches and actually carry out angles with heat. There are guys that I am sure would love the honest-to-god chance to actually draw and try and be stars bigger than a brand that constantly humiliates them. It ain't AEW though. It's like storming out of theatre class just to find the AV club. Some of these guys want to do fucking sports. _That's_ a promotion that could get a Brock Lesnar and really use him. That's a promotion that could secure an AJ Styles or Bryan Danielson or CM Punk. And to be honest, that's the sort of thing that I thought Jim Ross thought he was getting, and you can hear it in his voice.


You should really have a limit on length of replies. Anyway your full of it - see link below; 








411MANIA | Update on AEW Revolution PPV Buyrate, UK Numbers


A new report has more details on the PPV buyrate for AEW Revolution and approximately how much the show did for cable TV numbers in the US.




411mania.com


----------



## The Wood

From your own article:

'Observer Newsletter also notes that B/R Live streaming for the event set a new record, so as a result, Revolution is believed to be the highest in the US or a close second to Double or Nothing for overall numbers. Per the report, the numbers are said to be a “good sign” for AEW.'

So it was comparable to Double or Nothing, right? Double or Nothing got about 70k on PPV in the US with a rough 50/50 split between traditional PPV and B/R Live. You should really read the stuff you link to and do a bit more research.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> From your own article:
> 
> 'Observer Newsletter also notes that B/R Live streaming for the event set a new record, so as a result, Revolution is believed to be the highest in the US or a close second to Double or Nothing for overall numbers. Per the report, the numbers are said to be a “good sign” for AEW.'
> 
> So it was comparable to Double or Nothing, right? Double or Nothing got about 70k on PPV in the US with a rough 50/50 split between traditional PPV and B/R Live. You should really read the stuff you link to and do a bit more research.


70k is your number - where does it state that? Last ppv only had 15,000 from uk


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> 70k is your number - where does it state that? Last ppv only had 15,000 from uk


It was reported by Meltzer. Double or Nothing got about 39k on traditional PPV and B/R Live made up the rest. FITE TV around the world does the rest. All Out did worse than DON and Full Gear did worse than All Out. Revolution did better than All Out and Full Gear, but it’s not clear whether it did better or worse than DON, but it seems like it’s about in-line.


----------



## DOTL

Edit: Nope. I’m not falling for that crap again.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Yes. A demotion. A creative demotion. Otherwise he’d wouldn’t be over there, wasting away in the shadow of a bland, overhyped stable getting paid for nothing, which WWE will soon find unsustainable.The delusion here is the thought that his work won’t suffer if he returned under that awful system as it happens to literally everyone without Vince mark of approval.
> 
> AEW may be a pond, but with a little rain ponds grow. WWE on the other hand is an aquarium ran by Montana Max from Tiny Toons. What good is a lot of water when the crazy old cartoon tells you what tank to swim in?
> 
> And again with the eyepatch. He’s not even wearing it anymore! Let it go.


What you seem to be saying is "just the fact that he has more creative freedom with AEW is a vast improvement to me". What the folk your debating with are saying is " what does this creative freedom matter, if he doesn't use it to do something different". 

Think of it outside wrestling and instead think about it in the terms of music. I'm sure you've seen an artist or group complain about their label making them produce certain types of songs. Now imagine if an artist left Label 1 because they had him making radio friendly love songs for the women and he said that's not what he wanted to do. So he goes to the smaller Label 2 a label that's known for giving artist creative freedom. But yet he still is making the same type of radio friendly love songs for the women that he was on his previous label. Would you say this hypothetical artist had clearly started doing better creatively or would you question what he was complaining about in the first place if he wasn't going to change things massively?


----------



## Britz94xD

The people who signed those 5 year contracts are sell outs and deserve every bad thing Vince does to them. Guys like Kevin Owens could've refused to sign such a draconian contract, used his star power to negotiate a better deal for himself and set a precedent for others, but instead he's inadvertently an accomplice in WWE's attempts to monopolise and destroy wrestling.

Whereas Moxley stuck to his principles and used his star power to help a young promotion in a time when it was greatly needed. He's the hero we all wanted CM Punk to be.


----------



## RapShepard

Britz94xD said:


> The people who signed those 5 year contracts are sell outs and deserve every bad thing Vince does to them. Guys like Kevin Owens could've refused to sign such a draconian contract, used his star power to negotiate a better deal for himself and set a precedent for others, but instead he's inadvertently an accomplice in WWE's attempts to monopolise and destroy wrestling.
> 
> Whereas Moxley stuck to his principles and used his star power to help a young promotion in a time when it was greatly needed. He's the hero we all wanted CM Punk to be.


Lmao how ridiculous lol. "he's a sellout because he didn't go to the promotion backed by a billionaire and major cable network I like".


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> What you seem to be saying is "just the fact that he has more creative freedom with AEW is a vast improvement to me". What the folk your debating with are saying is " what does this creative freedom matter, if he doesn't use it to do something different".
> 
> Think of it outside wrestling and instead think about it in the terms of music. I'm sure you've seen an artist or group complain about their label making them produce certain types of songs. Now imagine if an artist left Label 1 because they had him making radio friendly love songs for the women and he said that's not what he wanted to do. So he goes to the smaller Label 2 a label that's known for giving artist creative freedom. But yet he still is making the same type of radio friendly love songs for the women that he was on his previous label. Would you say this hypothetical artist had clearly started doing better creatively or would you question what he was complaining about in the first place if he wasn't going to change things massively?


Here’s the thing. Even if you think he’s not doing anything different what’s keeping him from altering course in AEW? Nothing. If he wants to veer off left field he can and the longer he’s there the more odds that will happen naturally.

You can’t do that in the WWE system because the man calling the shots isn’t in the ring. Even if he fell into something that worked if it didn’t jive with Vince it will get thrown out. It’s happened too many times for you to deny.

It’s as simple as that.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Here’s the thing. Even if you think he’s not doing anything different what’s keeping him from altering course in AEW? Nothing. If he wants to veer off left field he can.
> 
> You can’t do that in the WWE system because the man calling the shots isn’t in the ring.
> 
> It’s as simple as that.


If he does nothing new or different with that freedom of creativity what's special about it in this very moment. Sure he could change course down the line. But I can't give him props for what he might do in the future.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Britz94xD said:


> The people who signed those 5 year contracts are sell outs and deserve every bad thing Vince does to them. Guys like Kevin Owens could've refused to sign such a draconian contract, used his star power to negotiate a better deal for himself and set a precedent for others, but instead he's inadvertently an accomplice in WWE's attempts to monopolise and destroy wrestling.
> 
> Whereas Moxley stuck to his principles and used his star power to help a young promotion in a time when it was greatly needed. He's the hero we all wanted CM Punk to be.



Some people are marks for providing for their family more than their wrestling career. Mox doesnt have kids and has a wife that makes 6 figures plus too. Good for him for being able to stick to principles. Owens has 2 kids, one thats rumored to be autistic and a stay at home wife. Despite his looks Vince and the WWE have treated him quite well. Despite most of the internet thinking Vince is a senile idiot, many of the boys are loyal to him and see him as a father figure and aren't going to leave him for a startup where they have to work with guys like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> If he does nothing new or different with that freedom of creativity what's special about it in this very moment. Sure he could change course down the line. But I can't give him props for what he might do in the future.


Like I said. This is a matter of opinion and fruitless to argue, but his stuff is improved. I think it would be much harder to argue against that if you look at his WWE stuff and his AEW stuff side by side, Or even against almost anyone from the modern era of the company under that system. It reminds me of Cena. Never thought he was a great promo, but when everyone is hitched to a script when he wasn’t even hitched to kayfabe it didn’t take much for him to shine.

That being said, even if I were wrong on that it doesn’t make a difference. If his character blew he’d be better off in a company that allows for adjustments. Period. No one working in AEW or WWE will say WWE is a better creative environment. Not even HHH. And if you say they would I will fight you.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Like I said. This is a matter of opinion and fruitless to argue, but his stuff is improved. I think it would be much harder to argue against that if you look at his WWE stuff and his AEW stuff side by side, Or even against almost anyone from the modern era of the company under that system. It reminds me of Cena. Never thought he was a great promo, but when everyone is hitched to a script when he wasn’t even hitched to kayfabe it didn’t take much for him to shine.
> 
> That being said, even if I were wrong on that it doesn’t make a difference. If his character blew he’d be better off in a company that allows for adjustments. Period. No one working in AEW or WWE will say WWE is a better creative environment. Not even HHH. And if you say they would I will fight you.


I think if you looked at his work and Jericho work in WWE without your "argh I hate Vince" mindset you'd see Moxley and Jericho clearly aren't doing anything new and aren't examples you want to bust out on why the creative freedom in AEW is important. These guys aren't using their creative freedom to do anything to warrant talking about "see what creative freedom does".

Having tools at your disposal means nothing if you don't use them


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Some people are marks for providing for their family more than their wrestling career. Mox doesnt have kids and has a wife that makes 6 figures plus too. Good for him for being able to stick to principles. Owens has 2 kids, one thats rumored to be autistic and a stay at home wife. Despite his looks Vince and the WWE have treated him quite well. Despite most of the internet thinking Vince is a senile idiot, many of the boys are loyal to him and see him as a father figure and aren't going to leave him for a startup where they have to work with guys like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy.


I agreed up until that last dumb statement of yours. But that's ok.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> What you seem to be saying is "just the fact that he has more creative freedom with AEW is a vast improvement to me". What the folk your debating with are saying is " what does this creative freedom matter, if he doesn't use it to do something different".
> 
> Think of it outside wrestling and instead think about it in the terms of music. I'm sure you've seen an artist or group complain about their label making them produce certain types of songs. Now imagine if an artist left Label 1 because they had him making radio friendly love songs for the women and he said that's not what he wanted to do. So he goes to the smaller Label 2 a label that's known for giving artist creative freedom. But yet he still is making the same type of radio friendly love songs for the women that he was on his previous label. Would you say this hypothetical artist had clearly started doing better creatively or would you question what he was complaining about in the first place if he wasn't going to change things massively?


This is an excellent post!

To go a bit further with that analogy, speaking for myself, I find it quite annoying and pretentious (yes, _I_ am calling something pretentious) when people trash a certain kind of music and then say “_My_ music is better!” when it’s exactly the same pop junk. This isn’t just the AEW fans in many cases, but AEW itself. 



Britz94xD said:


> The people who signed those 5 year contracts are sell outs and deserve every bad thing Vince does to them. Guys like Kevin Owens could've refused to sign such a draconian contract, used his star power to negotiate a better deal for himself and set a precedent for others, but instead he's inadvertently an accomplice in WWE's attempts to monopolise and destroy wrestling.
> 
> Whereas Moxley stuck to his principles and used his star power to help a young promotion in a time when it was greatly needed. He's the hero we all wanted CM Punk to be.


That’s ridiculous. Because wrestlers chose to not jump ship to the promotion you like, they’re sellouts? Hell, I’m willing to bet CM Punk would have gotten paid more money to work AEW than he did WWE Backstage.



DOTL said:


> Here’s the thing. Even if you think he’s not doing anything different what’s keeping him from altering course in AEW? Nothing. If he wants to veer off left field he can and the longer he’s there the more odds that will happen naturally.
> 
> You can’t do that in the WWE system because the man calling the shots isn’t in the ring. Even if he fell into something that worked if it didn’t jive with Vince it will get thrown out. It’s happened too many times for you to deny.
> 
> It’s as simple as that.


Lots of things are potentially stopping him from changing course. There is a booker. More and more it is becoming apparent that ego and nepotism rules the day in AEW. You HAVE to play nice with a bunch of silly stuff to survive over there. Imagine if you didn’t want to sell for Marko Stunt? How would that go down, do you think?

The other thing is the simple scope of the promotion. Because of the booking, it’s gotten itself down to about 750k viewers or whatever. You can only spring off that so much. There are natural limitations there if you, say, wanted to have a big feud or have something that feels like the most important thing in wrestling. 



DOTL said:


> Like I said. This is a matter of opinion and fruitless to argue, but his stuff is improved. I think it would be much harder to argue against that if you look at his WWE stuff and his AEW stuff side by side, Or even against almost anyone from the modern era of the company under that system. It reminds me of Cena. Never thought he was a great promo, but when everyone is hitched to a script when he wasn’t even hitched to kayfabe it didn’t take much for him to shine.
> 
> That being said, even if I were wrong on that it doesn’t make a difference. If his character blew he’d be better off in a company that allows for adjustments. Period. No one working in AEW or WWE will say WWE is a better creative environment. Not even HHH. And if you say they would I will fight you.


Are you talking about Moxley? His best stuff was easily in the WWE tearing it up with The Shield. You can say that’s a matter of opinion all you want, but I don’t think you are going to get too many critics with a half-respected opinion who would disagree. He was part of probably the hottest rising act in the biggest company and got to kick ass at a PPV which was watched by over 1 million people and had The Rock on it. He got to beat up The Rock. I mean...come on.

Adjustments are fine if they come with the discipline to know when and how to make them. Jon Moxley is exactly the same as Dean Ambrose from 2016. I swear if he started talking to another plant you would argue that it is different because of the type of plant, and at least he can choose not to do it if he doesn’t want to.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> I agreed up until that last dumb statement of yours. But that's ok.



If you dont think the BIG time free agents out there..not the Brodie Lees and Lance Archers of the world, but the gamechanging type signings arent looking at some of this indyriffic stuff they're doing and are turned off by it, you're fooling yourself.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> This is an excellent post!
> 
> To go a bit further with that analogy, speaking for myself, I find it quite annoying and pretentious (yes, _I_ am calling something pretentious) when people trash a certain kind of music and then say “_My_ music is better!” when it’s exactly the same pop junk. This isn’t just the AEW fans in many cases, but AEW itself.
> 
> 
> That’s ridiculous. Because wrestlers chose to not jump ship to the promotion you like, they’re sellouts? Hell, I’m willing to bet CM Punk would have gotten paid more money to work AEW than he did WWE Backstage.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of things are potentially stopping him from changing course. There is a booker. More and more it is becoming apparent that ego and nepotism rules the day in AEW. You HAVE to play nice with a bunch of silly stuff to survive over there. Imagine if you didn’t want to sell for Marko Stunt? How would that go down, do you think?
> 
> The other thing is the simple scope of the promotion. Because of the booking, it’s gotten itself down to about 750k viewers or whatever. You can only spring off that so much. There are natural limitations there if you, say, wanted to have a big feud or have something that feels like the most important thing in wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about Moxley? His best stuff was easily in the WWE tearing it up with The Shield. You can say that’s a matter of opinion all you want, but I don’t think you are going to get too many critics with a half-respected opinion who would disagree. He was part of probably the hottest rising act in the biggest company and got to kick ass at a PPV which was watched by over 1 million people and had The Rock on it. He got to beat up The Rock. I mean...come on.
> 
> Adjustments are fine if they come with the discipline to know when and how to make them. Jon Moxley is exactly the same as Dean Ambrose from 2016. I swear if he started talking to another plant you would argue that it is different because of the type of plant, and at least he can choose not to do it if he doesn’t want to.


Music heads are definitely guilty of that. 

But exactly creative freedom or not Moxley clearly isn't using it in a meaningful way. Saying Moxley and Ambrose are different is like saying 1st WWF run Hogan and early WCW Hogan are different characters.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you dont think the BIG time free agents out there..not the Brodie Lees and Lance Archers of the world, but the gamechanging type signings arent looking at some of this indyriffic stuff they're doing and are turned off by it, you're fooling yourself.


I'm pretty set on this being the reason CM Punk refused them. He's always taken himself seriously. The feud with Raven, The Summer(s) of Punks, etc. He should have been a slam-dunk signing. Free from the UFC, could always use a bit more money, has a grudge with Vince, loves wrestling, high demand for him, lots of shows based in Chicago. When they didn't sign him, I think the entire perception of AEW changed, whether people realize it or not. 

You get Punk, you get an in with Heyman. It's _possible_ that if Punk makes the jump, Brock makes the jump. Cain Velasquez becomes a lot more possible. I'm pretty sure I've seen Cain say that he talked to Punk about advice on signing with WWE. If Punk goes to AEW, maybe Cain goes there too? If AEW wasn't doing the silly shit that scares away normal folk, it's possible that Orton has enough of being the same guy in WWE that he's been for _13 years_ now and he takes millions of dollars to never take another phone call from Vince and automatically be the biggest star they have. He wasn't going to lower himself to working on a glorified indy in front of a third of the audience even for double the money.

This silly shit has hurt them. It's made them far less inviting from an artistic perspective. You are immediately associating yourself with a limit on production and perception. Great job, Tony. And, by the way, before any AEW fanboys jump down my throat for sharing that "opinion," Tony Khan himself has come out and said that shit was a bad, bad idea. Your guys admit it, haha. But they haven't cut it out completely and it's probably too late, because you can't suddenly put a tuxedo on after walking around in your love-heart boxers and expect to be taken seriously.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Music heads are definitely guilty of that.
> 
> But exactly creative freedom or not Moxley clearly isn't using it in a meaningful way. Saying Moxley and Ambrose are different is like saying 1st WWF run Hogan and early WCW Hogan are different characters.


He literally did a promo where he said "Just kidding. I don't want to join your group. It's a stupid group." That is WWE verbiage. It's WWE Zany Dean Ambrose, getting his lols in, tricking the heel. It wasn't smart or anything -- he just...lied. Said the opposite thing to what he meant. If you want to enjoy that more than him using James Ellsworth to mess with AJ Styles, that's fine -- that's entirely on you. But don't tell me it's some entirely different and revolutionary thing I've never seen before. This was his shtick for years. The Jericho feud in AEW was just the Jericho feud in WWE with a pot-plant swapped for an eye-patch and Jericho getting upset about losing his car instead of his jacket being destroyed.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Wood said:


> This is an excellent post!
> 
> To go a bit further with that analogy, speaking for myself, I find it quite annoying and pretentious (yes, _I_ am calling something pretentious) when people trash a certain kind of music and then say “_My_ music is better!” when it’s exactly the same pop junk. This isn’t just the AEW fans in many cases, but AEW itself.
> 
> 
> That’s ridiculous. Because wrestlers chose to not jump ship to the promotion you like, they’re sellouts? Hell, I’m willing to bet CM Punk would have gotten paid more money to work AEW than he did WWE Backstage.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of things are potentially stopping him from changing course. There is a booker. More and more it is becoming apparent that ego and nepotism rules the day in AEW. You HAVE to play nice with a bunch of silly stuff to survive over there. Imagine if you didn’t want to sell for Marko Stunt? How would that go down, do you think?
> 
> The other thing is the simple scope of the promotion. Because of the booking, it’s gotten itself down to about 750k viewers or whatever. You can only spring off that so much. There are natural limitations there if you, say, wanted to have a big feud or have something that feels like the most important thing in wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about Moxley? His best stuff was easily in the WWE tearing it up with The Shield. You can say that’s a matter of opinion all you want, but I don’t think you are going to get too many critics with a half-respected opinion who would disagree. He was part of probably the hottest rising act in the biggest company and got to kick ass at a PPV which was watched by over 1 million people and had The Rock on it. He got to beat up The Rock. I mean...come on.
> 
> Adjustments are fine if they come with the discipline to know when and how to make them. Jon Moxley is exactly the same as Dean Ambrose from 2016. I swear if he started talking to another plant you would argue that it is different because of the type of plant, and at least he can choose not to do it if he doesn’t want to.


"His best stuff was easily in the shield" 

I'm sorry that's entirely subjective and you attempting to speak for all critics with a "half respected opinion" in an attempt to add merit to your opinion (spoken like a fact) is rather silly. 

I've enjoyed Mox's feuds with Omega and Jericho significantly more than even the early shield work personally.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> I think if you looked at his work and Jericho work in WWE without your "argh I hate Vince" mindset you'd see Moxley and Jericho clearly aren't doing anything new and aren't examples you want to bust out on why the creative freedom in AEW is important. These guys aren't using their creative freedom to do anything to warrant talking about "see what creative freedom does".
> 
> Having tools at your disposal means nothing if you don't use them


Once again opinion.

But let me bring you in on something. I don’t dislike Vince’s work because I dislike Vince. I dislike Vince because I dislike his work. His work is watered down and contrived and that’s true for Mox, Jericho, AJ Styles, and everyone relative to what they could be doings now, even down to their fighting styles . I already know you prefer WWE so trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of time. But there’s no way you can say with a straight face that the work they did in WWE is identical to the work they’re doing now. Mox’s first promo was considered the best of his career and from what I’ve seen that isn’t controversial.Jericho is a meme machine, firing on all cylinders.But no moment or spot, or gag can beat the consistency and subtlety in his character and story.

That’s just my belief on the subject.


----------



## DOTL

Edit: nope


----------



## The Wood

PavelGaborik said:


> "His best stuff was easily in the shield"
> 
> I'm sorry that's entirely subjective and you attempting to speak for all critics with a "half respected opinion" in an attempt to add merit to your opinion (spoken like a fact) is rather silly.
> 
> I've enjoyed Mox's feuds with Omega and Jericho significantly more than even the early shield work personally.


You are allowed to have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find it widely shared by anyone being sincere. You can tell me that Paul Blart: Mall Cop is a better movie than Animal House too. The Shield are one of the few things in the past decade to actually get over. It's cool you're enjoying it, but if you cannot step outside that and look at the significance and quality of his other work, then...okay. That's you. 



DOTL said:


> Once again opinion.
> 
> But let me bring you in on something. I don’t dislike Vince’s work because I dislike Vince. I dislike Vince because I dislike his work. His work is watered down and contrived and that’s true for Mox, Jericho, AJ Styles, and everyone relative to what they could be doings now, even down to their fighting styles . I already know you prefer WWE so trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of time. But there’s no way you can say with a straight face that the work they did in WWE is identical to the work they’re doing now. Mox’s first promo was considered the beat of his career. Jericho is a meme machine, fire ring on all cylinders. No moment or spot can beat consistency in character.
> 
> That’s just my belief on the subject.


Mox's first promo is not considered the best of his career. His FCW ones are more highly regarded by the hardcore audience. Also the debut Shield one is considered excellent too. He said more with "Nope" than he's ever said in AEW. Jericho is a meme machine wherever he goes. "You just made the list!" "IT!" "Stupid idiot!" They caught on just as much as "Bubbly." Jericho is basically arrogant heel rock star Jericho, aged, with the poise of 2008 Jericho. I don't know how you can say his work is so radically different.

I don't really buy your Horsemen and nWo meaning The Shield didn't impress you thing if you're going to pretend to be so damn impressed with the Inner Circle. And they're not awful, don't get me wrong, but they are NOT the fucking Horsemen, that's for sure. It's the WWE rent-a-stable gimmick. Get the top heel, give him the lackey, the bodyguard and the tag team. Boom. Let's do it with Sami Zayn in WWE. Zayn needs a lackey -- let's go Austin Theory. Cesaro & Nakamura as a tag team. Needs a bodyguard. Let's move over Bobby Lashley. Done. There's your Zayn Line. Hey, Austin, go out there and pretend you get texts from people during Sami's promos and show pictures that women send you. Cesaro, you don't say anything, but you stand there in a suit. Nakamura, pull weird faces. Bobby, you just mean-mug whenever anyone tries to get close to Sami. Alright, go.

I'm not even trying to bury the Inner Circle with that, but come on. You are clearly sooooo biased towards AEW. And that's your prerogative. But just admit it is bias instead of trying to spin it like one is so radically different from the other.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> You are allowed to have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find it widely shared by anyone being sincere. You can tell me that Paul Blart: Mall Cop is a better movie than Animal House too. The Shield are one of the few things in the past decade to actually get over. It's cool you're enjoying it, but if you cannot step outside that and look at the significance and quality of his other work, then...okay. That's you.
> 
> 
> 
> Mox's first promo is not considered the best of his career. His FCW ones are more highly regarded by the hardcore audience. Also the debut Shield one is considered excellent too. He said more with "Nope" than he's ever said in AEW. Jericho is a meme machine wherever he goes. "You just made the list!" "IT!" "Stupid idiot!" They caught on just as much as "Bubbly." Jericho is basically arrogant heel rock star Jericho, aged, with the poise of 2008 Jericho. I don't know how you can say his work is so radically different.
> 
> I don't really buy your Horsemen and nWo meaning The Shield didn't impress you thing if you're going to pretend to be so damn impressed with the Inner Circle. And they're not awful, don't get me wrong, but they are NOT the fucking Horsemen, that's for sure. It's the WWE rent-a-stable gimmick. Get the top heel, give him the lackey, the bodyguard and the tag team. Boom. Let's do it with Sami Zayn in WWE. Zayn needs a lackey -- let's go Austin Theory. Cesaro & Nakamura as a tag team. Needs a bodyguard. Let's move over Bobby Lashley. Done. There's your Zayn Line. Hey, Austin, go out there and pretend you get texts from people during Sami's promos and show pictures that women send you. Cesaro, you don't say anything, but you stand there in a suit. Nakamura, pull weird faces. Bobby, you just mean-mug whenever anyone tries to get close to Sami. Alright, go.
> 
> I'm not even trying to bury the Inner Circle with that, but come on. You are clearly sooooo biased towards AEW. And that's your prerogative. But just admit it is bias instead of trying to spin it like one is so radically different from the other.


Never said crap about the inner circle.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Never said crap about the inner circle.


Yeah, but you're talking about how much different and better their work in AEW is compared to the WWE. You then put down the faction Ambrose was part of because it wasn't an NWA/WCW one, which AEW approaches even less.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> Yeah, but you're talking about how much different and better their work in AEW is compared to the WWE. You then put down the faction Ambrose was part of because it wasn't an NWA/WCW one, which AEW approaches even less.


Kinda pointless to argue a point no one made. Truth is the Shield isn’t even the best faction out of WWE. It was a decent act in a sea of garbage. People would have hopped on it for that reason alone. If it was in the AE or even the RA era it would have been lost in the shuffle.

If triple powerbombs, wearing a bulletproof vest, and superficial personalities is the height of quality for you, God bless, but for me they didn’t become full characters until that group disbanded.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Kinda pointless to argue a point no one made. Truth is the Shield isn’t even the best faction out of WWE. It was a decent act in a sea of garbage. People would have hopped on it for that reason alone.
> 
> If triple powerbombs and wearing a bulletproof vest is the height of his character arc, God help him.


So Jon Moxley must be "decent" in a sea of garbage also right?

Jon Moxley winning a second rate overbudgeted indy company's world championship isn't the highlight of his career either. The highlight of his career is winning the WWE championship and The Shield run.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> So Jon Moxley must be "decent" in a sea of garbage also right?
> 
> Jon Moxley winning a second rate overbudgeted indy company's world championship isn't the highlight of his career either. The highlight of his career is winning the WWE championship and The Shield run.


Then that’s a sad highlight considering even the man who runs the company doesn’t respect the belt or his wrestlers enough to let them do their job.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> Then that’s a sad highlight considering even the man who runs the company doesn’t respect the belt or his wrestlers enough to do their job.


🤣 Winning the most valuable belt in the biggest company in the industry is not a sad highlight. Its the most important highlight of your career once you do that.

Whats sad is Jon Moxley wrestling in a second rate company like AEW and AEW putting the belt on 2 ex WWE guys. Im not shocked by this at all considering money mark made the wrestlers EVPs of the company.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> 🤣 Winning the most valuable belt in the biggest company in the industry is not a sad highlight. Its the most important highlight of your career once you do that.


So important he stuck around for another shot at it
. . . wait.
If AEW survives, that man will have a legacy as one of the pioneers of a new promotion. Basic scarcity economics.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> So important he stuck around for another shot at it
> 
> . . . whoops.
> 
> Yeah and he can still opt out next month you seem to have forgotten that.
> 
> Woops.
> 
> If AEW survives, that man will have a legacy as one of the pioneers of a new promotion.
> 
> Yeah a deminished legacy in a second rate company because his WWE career will always be what people remember the most.
> 
> Sounds better to me than one of hundreds holding a belt devalued and debased by its creator. Excuse me. Inheritor.
> 
> And yet that championship thats "devalued" is still more valuable than a championship thats only been held by 2 WWE rejects. Not to mention AEW also signed Marty Jannety 2.0 (Matt Hardy) and immediately put him in the main event.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> ...


Those “rejects” were men Vince McMahon was willing to overpay to sit around and do
nothing.

lol and for such a reject, you sure are salivating at the notion of him returning to the dumpster fire.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> So important he stuck around for another shot at it
> . . . wait.
> If AEW survives, that man will have a legacy as one of the pioneers of a new promotion. Basic scarcity economics.


He can opt out next month you seem to have forgotten that because it doesn't suit your pro AEW stants. And his legacy in AEW will be forgotten because its a small second rate company that only smarks are watching. So his career in AEW means nothing.



DOTL said:


> So important he stuck around for another shot at it
> . . . wait.
> If AEW survives, that man will have a legacy as one of the pioneers of a new promotion. Basic scarcity economics.





DOTL said:


> Those “rejects” were men Vince McMahon was willing to overpay to sit around and do
> nothing.





DOTL said:


> Those “rejects” were men Vince McMahon was willing to overpay to sit around and do
> nothing.


Moxley is getting $6 million in AEW, Jericho has said hes making Brock Lesnar money in AEW, and Jim Ross is making more money than any commentator has made.


This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his *salary* as a wrestler of *AEW* could be around $6 million.





__





Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) Net Worth 2022 | How much is Jon Moxley worth | Sportskeeda WWE


Jon Moxley net worth is around $6.1 Million in 2022. Know more details about Jon Moxley fka Dean Ambrose net worth @ Sportskeeda




www.sportskeeda.com






Chris Jericho
Rumors suggested that Chris Jericho’s salary is over $3 million per year.









Chris Jericho AEW salary | What is the Salary of Chris Jericho in All Elite Wrestling (AEW) – Sport News Wale


Here’s How Much the Chris Jericho Earns per Year in All Elite Wrestling (AEW). Chris Jericho has taken the wrestling world by storm after making his shocking debut in AEW. Tony Khan and Chris Jericho are good friends. Tony is the founder and creator of All Elite Wrestling and Chris Jericho’s new...




sportnewswale.com






The report claims *Ross* will sign a multi-year deal that will see him earn around $1 million annually.









WWE Rumors: Jim Ross To Join AEW On Multi-Year Deal


WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross announced that he will be leaving the company after 26 years when his contract ends on March 29.




www.ibtimes.com





So AEW are a WWE retirement home where they're paying WWE rejects more money than they ever made in WWE. So money mark is already making WCW mistakes like overpaying ex WWE guys 😂.


----------



## DOTL

Ozell Gray said:


> He can opt out next month you seem to ...


You missed the point entirely.
You called the man a reject of WWE when WWE is willing to pay even guys they have no intention of using large amounts of money to stay.

And now you’re saying AEW is paying him an arm and a leg, but he might go back to WWE anyway?

You’re scrambling man.


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> He can opt out next month you seem to have forgotten that because it doesn't suit your pro AEW stants. And his legacy in AEW will be forgotten because its a small second rate company that only smarks are watching. So his career in AEW means nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moxley is getting $6 million in AEW, Jericho has said hes making Brock Lesnar money in AEW, and Jim Ross is making more money than any commentator has made.
> 
> 
> This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his *salary* as a wrestler of *AEW* could be around $6 million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) Net Worth 2022 | How much is Jon Moxley worth | Sportskeeda WWE
> 
> 
> Jon Moxley net worth is around $6.1 Million in 2022. Know more details about Jon Moxley fka Dean Ambrose net worth @ Sportskeeda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportskeeda.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho
> Rumors suggested that Chris Jericho’s salary is over $3 million per year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho AEW salary | What is the Salary of Chris Jericho in All Elite Wrestling (AEW) – Sport News Wale
> 
> 
> Here’s How Much the Chris Jericho Earns per Year in All Elite Wrestling (AEW). Chris Jericho has taken the wrestling world by storm after making his shocking debut in AEW. Tony Khan and Chris Jericho are good friends. Tony is the founder and creator of All Elite Wrestling and Chris Jericho’s new...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sportnewswale.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The report claims *Ross* will sign a multi-year deal that will see him earn around $1 million annually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Rumors: Jim Ross To Join AEW On Multi-Year Deal
> 
> 
> WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross announced that he will be leaving the company after 26 years when his contract ends on March 29.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ibtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So AEW are a WWE retirement home where they're paying WWE rejects more money than they ever made in WWE. So money mark is already making WCW mistakes like overpaying ex WWE guys 😂.


Why post in this section if you don't like the company or product?


----------



## Ozell Gray

DOTL said:


> You missed the points entirely.
> You called the man a reject of WWE when WWE is will to pay even guys they have no intention of using large amounts of money.
> 
> And now you’re saying AEW is paying him an arm and a leg, but he might go back to WWE anyway?
> 
> You’re scrambling
> 
> 
> No you missed the entire point you claimed that they weren't rejects because Vince Mcmahon was willing to overpay them to stay in WWE and proved that they're making WAY MORE in AEW than they EVER did in WWE. So now that you've gotten proven wrong on that situation you're now backtracking switching your arguement because I proved with EVIDENCE that AEW are PAYING THEM WAY MORE THAN WWE DID. AEW are the one who are OVERPAYING people. And he is a reject it doesn't matter how you feel about it its just the truth. Those guys still get used they just get used on Main Event and house shows and that has nothing to do with the conversation anyways.
> 
> 
> Im saying what the facts says and the facts says that AEW are paying him WAY MORE than what WWE did. Face facts AEW are the ones who overpaid for talent. He can still opt out next month if he wants to and his most memoriable moments were in WWE which was my point.
> 
> So you're the one thats scrambling so get your facts straight.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> Why post in this section if you don't like the company or product?


Because its in open forum where anyone can comment.


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> Because its in open forum where anyone can comment.


What a strange use of time


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> What a strange use of time


Its not strange at all


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> Its not strange at all


It's strange in the sense of it adds nothing to the thread. Nothing constructive can be gained from it.

It's almost as bad as the Stockholm syndrome that some fans have with WWE. They hate everything on the show yet continue to watch every week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Damn 6 million for Moxley. Over how many years is that? If it was a 6 year deal worth 6 million I'd say it's a good bit of business but I'd bet it's probably a 2-3 year deal worth 6 million...oofa


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> It's strange in the sense of it adds nothing to the thread. Nothing constructive can be gained from it.
> 
> It's almost as bad as the Stockholm syndrome that some fans have with WWE. They hate everything on the show yet continue to watch every week.


I offered constructive criticisms like they need to stop signing old guys like Lance Archer and Matt Hardy, they need to stop appealing smarks and appeal to casuals to grow their audience, and to stop signing WWE, Impact Wrestling, and NJPW rejects.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn 6 million for Moxley. Over how many years is that? If it was a 6 year deal worth 6 million I'd say it's a good bit of business but I'd bet it's probably a 2-3 year deal worth 6 million...oofa


3 years with an opt out clause he can use next month if he isn't happy in AEW.


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> I offered constructive criticisms like they need to stop sigining old guys like Lance Archer and Matt Hardy, they need to stop appealingvsmarks and appeal to casuals to grow their audience, and to stop sigining WWE, Impact Wrestling, and NJPW rejects.


They need names. Matt might not be everyone's cup of tea but he will do the peak ratings of the show along with Mox and Jericho. A few more would be good.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You missed the point entirely.
> You called the man a reject of WWE when WWE is willing to pay even guys they have no intention of using large amounts of money to stay.
> 
> And now you’re saying AEW is paying him an arm and a leg, but he might go back to WWE anyway?
> 
> You’re scrambling man.


Dean Ambrose was a valued utility player in WWE. I wouldn't call him a reject, but he left because he felt like he had main event value and/or wanted creative freedom. The point is that he's being pushed as the big fish in a small pond, but that he's basically doing his WWE shtick. He just acts like it doesn't have WWE stank on it because he's not there anymore. I'm telling you, at some point the new car smell is going to wear off this promotion entirely, and more and more people are going to say "Hang on, you're just doing the same things except you say they are different."

And yeah, Ambrose could go back to the WWE whenever he wanted. If he gives Tony Khan his notice, what is Khan going to say? No? He doesn't have it in him to be the Vince McMahon type and say "Well, I've got you under fucking contract so no, you're staying here." I don't think Moxley _would_, because I think he's happy in the vanity project doing his WWE routine with an eye-patch. He feels in control of his destiny, and that's something he feels. The guy has a big quota for freedom he needs to fill. That's his prerogative. But to say that this is so much different to his WWE stuff or his career highlight? Man, there's just no way to help you if that's what you truly believe. It's not even subjective. What role is Robert Downey, Jr. most known for? Everyone knows the answer to this. What role is Jonathan Good best known for? It's Dean Ambrose in The Shield. That's why he's got the value to AEW in the first place.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> They need names. Matt might not be everyone's cup of tea but he will do the peak ratings of the show along with Mox and Jericho. A few more would be good.


Matt Hardy is Marty Jannetty 2.0 so he brings no value and they have big names in Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho. They need to push their young talent or they'll jump ship to WWE, Impact, and NJPW. They had the chance to get Punk if they wanted a big name but money mark messed it up by giving hima text messege instead of an offer in person.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Once again opinion.
> 
> But let me bring you in on something. I don’t dislike Vince’s work because I dislike Vince. I dislike Vince because I dislike his work. His work is watered down and contrived and that’s true for Mox, Jericho, AJ Styles, and everyone relative to what they could be doings now, even down to their fighting styles . I already know you prefer WWE so trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of time. But there’s no way you can say with a straight face that the work they did in WWE is identical to the work they’re doing now. Mox’s first promo was considered the best of his career and from what I’ve seen that isn’t controversial.Jericho is a meme machine, firing on all cylinders.But no moment or spot, or gag can beat the consistency and subtlety in his character and story.
> 
> That’s just my belief on the subject.


I like both promotions though yes I do prefer WWE. Because I don't actually hate watch WWE I can see things they do on par with AEW. The thing is a lot of folk dislike WWE so much they can't even give credit where it's due. I mean in an earlier post you dismissed Suit Jericho and the Festival of Friendship, which were considered great for Jericho way before AEW. 

I don't have a problem with acknowledging wrestlers that did better outside of WWE. But the thing is a lot of people dislike WWE so much that they consider literally anything happening outside of WWE. I mean for proof of this go back to when Shawn Spears debuted and look how many folk were saying he was now a star thanks to AEW, then look at were he is now. Look at how folk reacted to Hager's debut claiming he looked like a bigger star than he ever did in the E, then look at the talk about him afterwards. 

I by no means am saying Moxley or Jericho suck(though due to career length I'm over Jericho) but they're getting bonus points because they're not in WWE, not because they've improved their characters.


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> Matt Hardy is Marty Jannetty 2.0 so he brings no value and they have big names in Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho. They need to push their young talent or they'll jump ship to WWE, Impact, and NJPW. They had the chance to get Punk if they wanted a big name but money mark messed it up by giving hima text messege instead of an offer in person.


You can't force people to sign. I think Punk really wants that main event at Mania.

In regards to Matt's ratings, I think you will be surprised when the crowds come back.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> You can't force people to sign. I think Punk really wants that main event at Mania.
> 
> I think you will be surprised when the crowds come back in regards to Matt.


Punk said if AEW offered him enough money and made an offer in person I would've signed with them but AEW messed that chance up. But he wants that Wrestlemania main event on his resume though.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> I like both promotions though yes I do prefer WWE. Because I don't actually hate watch WWE I can see things they do on par with AEW. The thing is a lot of folk dislike WWE so much they can't even give credit where it's due. I mean in an earlier post you dismissed Suit Jericho and the Festival of Friendship, which were considered great for Jericho way before AEW.
> 
> I don't have a problem with acknowledging wrestlers that did better outside of WWE. But the thing is a lot of people dislike WWE so much that they consider literally anything happening outside of WWE. I mean for proof of this go back to when Shawn Spears debuted and look how many folk were saying he was now a star thanks to AEW, then look at were he is now. Look at how folk reacted to Hager's debut claiming he looked like a bigger star than he ever did in the E, then look at the talk about him afterwards.
> 
> I by no means am saying Moxley or Jericho suck(though due to career length I'm over Jericho) but they're getting bonus points because they're not in WWE, not because they've improved their characters.


YES! It's the "Other" principle. WWE have made themselves heels with so many fans that they're rooting for Anything Else. That thing doesn't need to be good (it doesn't need to be bad either),it just needs to occasionally make a snide swipe at WWE.

There was this show where Shawn Spears cut this smug-ass fucking promo where he said he was looking for a tag team partner because "tag teams _actually_ matter in AEW." God, it pissed me off. Largely because the tag teams in AEW suck. But many fans ate it the fuck up and actually believe that rhetoric. But there is saying in TV -- "show don't tell." AEW spends a lot of time telling you that their tag teams matter. How many tag team main events have there been? How many main event tag teams are there? They say this, but which tag team couldn't exist in the WWE realm? The Best Friends and Dark Order wouldn't be there, because they wouldn't make it. But SCU, The Young Bucks, the Lucha Bros. -- WWE would sign them all and they would do the exact same shit there that they do in AEW, with the same amount of emphasis. 

SmackDown has got John Morrison & The Miz, The New Day, The Usos, Ziggler & Roode, Heavy Machinery (Otis is fucking over), Cesaro & Nakamura and Bryan & Gulak. Sometimes they even put Bryan & Reigns together. That's on just one of their boring-ass fucking shows. But tell me which of those teams AEW wouldn't KILL to have? Maybe The Miz wouldn't seem to fit, but he would get so much heat and would be such a great contrast to everyone else, and carries so much recognition at this point that they would be insane not to take him. _SmackDown_ has a better fucking division, with several guys that they've at least tried to make main eventers in the past, several singles champions and several genuine world class talents. And you've got fucking Tye fucking Dillinger mugging for the camera saying "In AEW tag teams _actually_ matter" like you couldn't do a round robin between those teams I just mentioned and it not be so much fucking better than The Best Friends vs. The Dark Order or whatever the fuck.

Sorry to go on that rant, haha, but the point is -- the tag teams are as mid-card in AEW than they are in WWE. _More so_, because at least some of the guys in the SmackDown one are actually fucking stars and great overall workers. It's the same with the women. It's the same with the talent signings. Brag, brag, brag but absolutely nothing in the bag. But people will argue black-and-blue with you about it being so much better just because it's not WWE. God, I hope WWE do that tag team round robin idea, just to fuck with AEW and put on about 30 great matches while AEW tries to tell you that Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets is the best thing ever.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> I like both promotions though yes I do prefer WWE. Because I don't actually hate watch WWE I can see things they do on par with AEW. The thing is a lot of folk dislike WWE so much they can't even give credit where it's due. I mean in an earlier post you dismissed Suit Jericho and the Festival of Friendship, which were considered great for Jericho way before AEW.
> 
> I don't have a problem with acknowledging wrestlers that did better outside of WWE. But the thing is a lot of people dislike WWE so much that they consider literally anything happening outside of WWE. I mean for proof of this go back to when Shawn Spears debuted and look how many folk were saying he was now a star thanks to AEW, then look at were he is now. Look at how folk reacted to Hager's debut claiming he looked like a bigger star than he ever did in the E, then look at the talk about him afterwards.
> 
> I by no means am saying Moxley or Jericho suck(though due to career length I'm over Jericho) but they're getting bonus points because they're not in WWE, not because they've improved their characters.


I don’t hate watch WWE. I just hate what I watch most of the time in WWE. Evidence: I enjoyed quite a bit the firefly thing with Cena just now even though I despised John Cena in the past. So just because my taste don’t align with yours doesn’t mean I’m being unfair. That’s a cop out to explain it away n our differences.

I felt that Jerichos best character work up until now was in his time in WCW well before he showed up in WWE. Because that character is his. It’s full of spinal tap references, hapless delusion, and pure wrestling ability. None of his work was bad, but suits and festivals or whatever did nothing to make me like him more than the stuff he’s already done. His work in AEW, on the other hand, has. It’s the character I liked from way back with the added benefit of better promo and more experience.

This stuff you can’t really fight against. And to prove I’m not being completely biased, I thought Spears got more traction in his early run at WWE than AEW.

The operative word is contrivance. Jericho is better without it.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> YES! It's the "Other" principle. WWE have made themselves heels with so many fans that they're rooting for Anything Else. That thing doesn't need to be good (it doesn't need to be bad either),it just needs to occasionally make a snide swipe at WWE.
> 
> There was this show where Shawn Spears cut this smug-ass fucking promo where he said he was looking for a tag team partner because "tag teams _actually_ matter in AEW." God, it pissed me off. Largely because the tag teams in AEW suck. But many fans ate it the fuck up and actually believe that rhetoric. But there is saying in TV -- "show don't tell." AEW spends a lot of time telling you that their tag teams matter. How many tag team main events have there been? How many main event tag teams are there? They say this, but which tag team couldn't exist in the WWE realm? The Best Friends and Dark Order wouldn't be there, because they wouldn't make it. But SCU, The Young Bucks, the Lucha Bros. -- WWE would sign them all and they would do the exact same shit there that they do in AEW, with the same amount of emphasis.
> 
> SmackDown has got John Morrison & The Miz, The New Day, The Usos, Ziggler & Roode, Heavy Machinery (Otis is fucking over), Cesaro & Nakamura and Bryan & Gulak. Sometimes they even put Bryan & Reigns together. That's on just one of their boring-ass fucking shows. But tell me which of those teams AEW wouldn't KILL to have? Maybe The Miz wouldn't seem to fit, but he would get so much heat and would be such a great contrast to everyone else, and carries so much recognition at this point that they would be insane not to take him. _SmackDown_ has a better fucking division, with several guys that they've at least tried to make main eventers in the past, several singles champions and several genuine world class talents. And you've got fucking Tye fucking Dillinger mugging for the camera saying "In AEW tag teams _actually_ matter" like you couldn't do a round robin between those teams I just mentioned and it not be so much fucking better than The Best Friends vs. The Dark Order or whatever the fuck.
> 
> Sorry to go on that rant, haha, but the point is -- the tag teams are as mid-card in AEW than they are in WWE. _More so_, because at least some of the guys in the SmackDown one are actually fucking stars and great overall workers. It's the same with the women. It's the same with the talent signings. Brag, brag, brag but absolutely nothing in the bag. But people will argue black-and-blue with you about it being so much better just because it's not WWE. God, I hope WWE do that tag team round robin idea, just to fuck with AEW and put on about 30 great matches while AEW tries to tell you that Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets is the best thing ever.


I agree and disagree. I agree that AEW and it's fans would eat up a lot of WWE tag teams and that their tag division isn't nearly as important as it claimed. I disagree that it's on par with WWE tag divisions. Name value wise sure. But AEW has it's tag teams involved in more feuds and getting shine.


----------



## imthegame19

Ozell Gray said:


> He can opt out next month you seem to have forgotten that because it doesn't suit your pro AEW stants. And his legacy in AEW will be forgotten because its a small second rate company that only smarks are watching. So his career in AEW means nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moxley is getting $6 million in AEW, Jericho has said hes making Brock Lesnar money in AEW, and Jim Ross is making more money than any commentator has made.
> 
> 
> This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his *salary* as a wrestler of *AEW* could be around $6 million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) Net Worth 2022 | How much is Jon Moxley worth | Sportskeeda WWE
> 
> 
> Jon Moxley net worth is around $6.1 Million in 2022. Know more details about Jon Moxley fka Dean Ambrose net worth @ Sportskeeda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sportskeeda.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho
> Rumors suggested that Chris Jericho’s salary is over $3 million per year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho AEW salary | What is the Salary of Chris Jericho in All Elite Wrestling (AEW) – Sport News Wale
> 
> 
> Here’s How Much the Chris Jericho Earns per Year in All Elite Wrestling (AEW). Chris Jericho has taken the wrestling world by storm after making his shocking debut in AEW. Tony Khan and Chris Jericho are good friends. Tony is the founder and creator of All Elite Wrestling and Chris Jericho’s new...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sportnewswale.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The report claims *Ross* will sign a multi-year deal that will see him earn around $1 million annually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Rumors: Jim Ross To Join AEW On Multi-Year Deal
> 
> 
> WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross announced that he will be leaving the company after 26 years when his contract ends on March 29.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ibtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So AEW are a WWE retirement home where they're paying WWE rejects more money than they ever made in WWE. So money mark is already making WCW mistakes like overpaying ex WWE guys 😂.



Moxley not making 6 million per year. That would make Moxley 2nd highest paid guy in wrestling and would be all over the internet if true. Not from a weak source. It's pretty well known that Jericho is the highest paid just wrestler in the company at 3 million. Most likely Moxley deal is 3 years for 6 million at 2 million per year. Given that Jericho makes 3 million. As for opt out you have to give some notice by certain date you plan to opt out. Since Moxley still AEW champion he clearly decided not to opt out next month.


I know you are AEW hater/troll and probably WWE fan boy. I dont attention to your trash comments enough to know that. But fact is WWE guys have been under paid for years. AEW had caused WWE to pay guys more.


By today standards in WWE neither Jericho or Moxley at 3 and likely 2 million per year. Are making less then Brock, Reigns, Rollins and Orton. They are making what Triple H, Shane, Goldberg and Braun Strowman make. Which Jericho and Moxley are worth every penny of that when you consider that.









WWE’s Highest-Paid Wrestlers 2020: WrestleMania Holds The Spotlight Despite Coronavirus Shutdowns


The top ten pulled in a combined $38.5 million before taxes.




www.forbes.com





But hey continue your trolling how this high paid Indy company is on major tv network with guaranteed tv money ALREADY(and one of their highest rated shows in viewers and 18-49). Has 3 to 11 thousand fans at even show they have and ppvs are doing over 100,000 buys each time. Not to mention they are profitable after year one lol. Man this company sucks ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. End of conversation and thanks for not being worth my time to read anymore of your replies. You have been IGNORED and SIlenced like all the other clowns on this forum.


----------



## imthegame19

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn 6 million for Moxley. Over how many years is that? If it was a 6 year deal worth 6 million I'd say it's a good bit of business but I'd bet it's probably a 2-3 year deal worth 6 million...oofa


Moxley not 2nd highest paid guy in wrestling. If it was true then it would be reported by actual legit source. He's more likely making 6 million over 3 years. He's not making more then Jericho. Think about it Moxley didn't want to go back to WWE(he told Jericho/Cody this before his WWE was up). Who would AEW have to bid against to pay him 6 million a year. Two million per year. Yeah that makes sense based off what he was making in WWE(and working a lot less dates). Especially since he makes more then that doing New Japan and other shows


----------



## DrewCN

nxt should win this week right? charlotte, wrestlemania bump, women’s ladder match and ciampa vs gargano


----------



## The Wood

Probably not. Charlotte isn't a ratings draw, and that's not her role there. I guess if they're promoting the Women's Ladder Match and Ciampa vs. Gargano those could be pretty big. What does AEW have?


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Moxley not making 6 million per year. That would make Moxley 2nd highest paid guy in wrestling and would be all over the internet if true. Not from a weak source. It's pretty well known that Jericho is the highest paid just wrestler in the company at 3 million. Most likely Moxley deal is 3 years for 6 million at 2 million per year. Given that Jericho makes 3 million. As for opt out you have to give some notice by certain date you plan to opt out. Since Moxley still AEW champion he clearly decided not to opt out next month.
> 
> 
> I know you are AEW hater/troll and probably WWE fan boy. I dont attention to your trash comments enough to know that. But fact is WWE guys have been under paid for years. AEW had caused WWE to pay guys more.
> 
> 
> By today standards in WWE neither Jericho or Moxley at 3 and likely 2 million per year. Are making less then Brock, Reigns, Rollins and Orton. They are making what Triple H, Shane, Goldberg and Braun Strowman make. Which Jericho and Moxley are worth every penny of that when you consider that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE’s Highest-Paid Wrestlers 2020: WrestleMania Holds The Spotlight Despite Coronavirus Shutdowns
> 
> 
> The top ten pulled in a combined $38.5 million before taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But hey continue your trolling how this high paid Indy company is on major tv network with guaranteed tv money ALREADY(and one of their highest rated shows in viewers and 18-49). Has 3 to 11 thousand fans at even show they have and ppvs are doing over 100,000 buys each time. Not to mention they are profitable after year one lol. Man this company sucks ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. End of conversation and thanks for not being worth my time to read anymore of your replies. You have been IGNORED and SIlenced like all the other clowns on this forum.


I didn't say $6 million per year I just said hes getting paid $6 million but its over a 3 year period. And the source is a credible source that does research before they report these things. Jericho is getting $3 million overa 3 year period but Moxley is the highest paid in AEW and thats well known.

Jon Moxley Dean Ambrose’s annual WWE salary in 2015 was between $800000 and $900000. This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his salary as a wrestler of AEW could be around $6 million. Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) Net Worth 2020 | How much is Dean Ambrose worth | Sportskeeda WWE

Chris Jericho Meltzer noted that while *Jericho* isn't making more than Brock Lesnar or John Cena, his deal is worth more than that of "almost any other star" in *WWE*. After signing a reported three-year deal with *AEW* in January, *Jericho* called it the "best *contract* of his career," per Meltzer (h/t Marc Middleton of WrestlingInc.com). Report: Jericho's AEW Contract 'Stunned' WWE Personnel; Y2J Wants Lesnar Match

So you're simply wrong but nice try though.

I said he has the option to opt out I didn't say he opted put so learn how to read before repying. And him being world champion doesn't mean anything he could still decide to opt out next month if he wanted to.

I know you're an AEW fanboy/troll but it doesn't matter about your dumb comments because its coming from an idiot like you. 🤣 WWE guys were getting more money everytime they re-signed with WWE after their contracts ran out BEFORE AEW existed. So no AEW aren't responsible for that.

Yeah and they're getting paid more than what WWE paid them


*Dean Ambrose* — $2.2 million (£1.57 million).May 30, 2018https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paid-wwe-wrestlers-2018-4

Chris Jericho $750k.








The salary of every WWE superstar in 2018 revealed


Unsurprisingly, Brock Lesnar pocketed a cool $10million last year




www.birminghammail.co.uk





But hey keep being the dummy denying the facts. Yeah their on a big national network barely getting 800,000 viewers hahahaha (not to mention they've already spent $50 million just to compete with WWE's developmental brand). Thats horrible being on a big network and getting trash tv ratings and those tv ratings dropped last week 🤣. Those ppv buys are guesses by Meltzer since they don't release ppv buys and not to mention they're not profitable yet and no one except Meltzer said they were going to be this year (which is impossible anyways since it take 3-5 years to make a company profitable). Tony Khan never said AEW are profitable so you claiming that they're profitable when the guy running hasn't said it makes you look dumb. If I wasn'tvworth your time then you wouldn't have responded to me dummy. But they you've been debunked just like all the other clowns on this forum. And AEW is a second rate overbudgeted indy company 😂.


----------



## imthegame19

DrewCN said:


> nxt should win this week right? charlotte, wrestlemania bump, women’s ladder match and ciampa vs gargano


It will be close but I say AEW still wins. With both shows in low 700s. Considering AEW might only have to gain 30-50 viewers to win. While NXT probably gonna have to gain 130,000 plus viewers from last week to win. Charlotte been on there a lot and had no impact on ratings. NXT didn't have presence at Mania. So not sure they will get a bump their. Woman's ladder match and Ciampa/Gargano might make it close. But I don't think either are matches fans are excited for. Especially when they had Ciampa/Gargano matches already in front of fans and this one will be in front of no one.

That said AEW card isn't super strong as of right now. With Cody/Spears likely the main event. But AEW got enough star power that fans will tune in to see Moxley/Hager title build. More Jericho(who's announcing with Tony)/Matt Hardy stuff and Cody still a draw wrestling in the main event. While Britt Baker/Shida will bring some interest as well. So I think it will be close and think overall ratings for both shows won't be as low as last week. Unless there's some major developments in coronavirus stuff.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you dont think the BIG time free agents out there..not the Brodie Lees and Lance Archers of the world, but the gamechanging type signings arent looking at some of this indyriffic stuff they're doing and are turned off by it, you're fooling yourself.


As opposed to:
-getting dog food thrown on them
-getting vaccinated up their ass
-spamming their finishers only to be kicked out of
-Reading off scripts
-being buried to the point where they’re shucking and jiving on TV a few months down the line.

Nobody is forced to fight Marko Stunt or OC. That’s some dumb statement my guy.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't say $6 million per year I just said hes getting paid $6 million but its over a 3 year period. And the source is a credible source that does research before they report these things. Jericho is getting $3 million overa 3 year period but Moxley is the highest paid in AEW and thats well known.
> 
> Jon Moxley Dean Ambrose’s annual WWE salary in 2015 was between $800000 and $900000. This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his salary as a wrestler of AEW could be around $6 million. Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) Net Worth 2020 | How much is Dean Ambrose worth | Sportskeeda WWE
> 
> Chris Jericho Meltzer noted that while *Jericho* isn't making more than Brock Lesnar or John Cena, his deal is worth more than that of "almost any other star" in *WWE*. After signing a reported three-year deal with *AEW* in January, *Jericho* called it the "best *contract* of his career," per Meltzer (h/t Marc Middleton of WrestlingInc.com). Report: Jericho's AEW Contract 'Stunned' WWE Personnel; Y2J Wants Lesnar Match
> 
> So you're simply wrong but nice try though.
> 
> I said he has the option to opt out I didn't say he opted put so learn how to read before repying. And him being world champion doesn't mean anything he could still decide to opt out next month if he wanted to.
> 
> I know you're an AEW fanboy/troll but it doesn't matter about your dumb comments because its coming from an idiot like you. 🤣 WWE guys were getting more money everytime they re-signed with WWE after their contracts ran out BEFORE AEW existed. So no AEW aren't responsible for that.
> 
> Yeah and they're getting paid more than what WWE paid them
> 
> 
> *Dean Ambrose* — $2.2 million (£1.57 million).May 30, 2018https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paid-wwe-wrestlers-2018-4
> 
> Chris Jericho $750k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The salary of every WWE superstar in 2018 revealed
> 
> 
> Unsurprisingly, Brock Lesnar pocketed a cool $10million last year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.birminghammail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But hey keep being the dummy denying the facts. Yeah their on a big national network barely getting 800,000 viewers hahahaha (not to mention they've already spent $50 million just to compete with WWE's developmental brand). Thats horrible being on a big network and getting trash tv ratings and those tv ratings dropped last week 🤣. Those ppv buys are guesses by Meltzer since they don't release ppv buys and not to mention they're not profitable yet and no one except Meltzer said they were going to be this year (which is impossible anyways since it take 3-5 years to make a company profitable). Tony Khan never said AEW are profitable so you claiming that they're profitable when the guy running hasn't said it makes you look dumb. If I wasn'tvworth your time then you wouldn't have responded to me dummy. But they you've been debunked just like all the other clowns on this forum. And AEW is a second rate overbudgeted indy company 😂.


Thanks for joining aew forum


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Probably not. Charlotte isn't a ratings draw, and that's not her role there. I guess if they're promoting the Women's Ladder Match and Ciampa vs. Gargano those could be pretty big. What does AEW have?


What is Charlotte's role there?


----------



## DrewCN

The Wood said:


> Probably not. Charlotte isn't a ratings draw, and that's not her role there. I guess if they're promoting the Women's Ladder Match and Ciampa vs. Gargano those could be pretty big. What does AEW have?


So far I think

shida vs britt
cody vs spears tnt tournament


----------



## Ozell Gray

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't say $6 million per year I just said hes getting paid $6 million but its over a 3 year period. And the source is a credible source that does research before they report these things. Jericho is getting $3 million overa 3 year period but Moxley is the highest paid in AEW and thats well known.
> 
> Jon Moxley Dean Ambrose’s annual WWE salary in 2015 was between $800000 and $900000. This increased to over $1 million later in 2016-17. It is rumoured that his salary as a wrestler of AEW could be around $6 million. Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) Net Worth 2020 | How much is Dean Ambrose worth | Sportskeeda WWE
> 
> Chris Jericho Meltzer noted that while *Jericho* isn't making more than Brock Lesnar or John Cena, his deal is worth more than that of "almost any other star" in *WWE*. After signing a reported three-year deal with *AEW* in January, *Jericho* called it the "best *contract* of his career," per Meltzer (h/t Marc Middleton of WrestlingInc.com). Report: Jericho's AEW Contract 'Stunned' WWE Personnel; Y2J Wants Lesnar Match
> 
> So you're simply wrong but nice try though.
> 
> I said he has the option to opt out I didn't say he opted put so learn how to read before repying. And him being world champion doesn't mean anything he could still decide to opt out next month if he wanted to.
> 
> I know you're an AEW fanboy/troll but it doesn't matter about your dumb comments because its coming from an idiot like you. 🤣 WWE guys were getting more money everytime they re-signed with WWE after their contracts ran out BEFORE AEW existed. So no AEW aren't responsible for that.
> 
> Yeah and they're getting paid more than what WWE paid them
> 
> 
> *Dean Ambrose* — $2.2 million (£1.57 million).May 30, 2018https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paid-wwe-wrestlers-2018-4
> 
> Chris Jericho $750k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The salary of every WWE superstar in 2018 revealed
> 
> 
> Unsurprisingly, Brock Lesnar pocketed a cool $10million last year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.birminghammail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But hey keep being the dummy denying the facts. Yeah their on a big national network barely getting 800,000 viewers hahahaha (not to mention they've already spent $50 million just to compete with WWE's developmental brand). Thats horrible being on a big network and getting trash tv ratings and those tv ratings dropped last week 🤣. Those ppv buys are guesses by Meltzer since they don't release ppv buys and not to mention they're not profitable yet and no one except Meltzer said they were going to be this year (which is impossible anyways since it take 3-5 years to make a company profitable). Tony Khan never said AEW are profitable so you claiming that they're profitable when the guy running hasn't said it makes you look dumb. If I wasn'tvworth your time then you wouldn't have responded to me dummy. But they you've been debunked just like all the other clowns on this forum. And AEW is a second rate overbudgeted indy company 😂.





Pippen94 said:


> Thanks for joining aew forum


Thanks for replying to me.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> As opposed to:
> -getting dog food thrown on them
> *-getting vaccinated up their ass*
> -spamming their finishers only to be kicked out of
> -Reading off scripts
> -being buried to the point where they’re shucking and jiving on TV a few months down the line.
> 
> Nobody is forced to fight Marko Stunt or OC. That’s some dumb statement my guy.


Wait, I hope you don't actually believe the needle was meant to go up his ass?

Spamming finishers only to get kicked out of was entirely started as an NJPW/AEW thing though.


----------



## DrewCN

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246881337325367298


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Wait, I hope you don't actually believe the needle was meant to go up his ass?
> 
> Spamming finishers only to get kicked out of was entirely started as an NJPW/AEW thing though.


Hahaha

Spamming finishers has been a WWE thing for well over a decade. But I mean you watch WWE while it’s in the background so I guess you don’t pay much attention.


----------



## rbl85

Charlotte already appeared on NXT before the pandemic and she didn't draw, in fact her segments got obliterated by AEW.

In think the ladders match is going to draw more than Charlotte.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> As opposed to:
> -getting dog food thrown on them
> -getting vaccinated up their ass
> -spamming their finishers only to be kicked out of
> -Reading off scripts
> -being buried to the point where they’re shucking and jiving on TV a few months down the line.
> 
> Nobody is forced to fight Marko Stunt or OC. That’s some dumb statement my guy.



The dog food thing is an old time pro wrestling staple. Even Mr. Indy God CM Punk himself didnt have a problem with it.

Finishers? Who cares lol. There's really only 3 protected finishers left in the business. Corbins EOD, Jay Whites Bladerunner, and The One Winged Angel. Everything else is just there.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> The dog food thing is an old time pro wrestling staple. Even Mr. Indy God CM Punk himself didnt have a problem with it.
> 
> Finishers? Who cares lol. There's really only 3 protected finishers left in the business. Corbins EOD, Jay Whites Bladerunner, and The One Winged Angel. Everything else is just there.


"who cares lol" exactly, so then who cares if their colleague is marko stunt or orange cassidy?

of course someone will defend dog food gimmicks in 2020


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> "who cares lol" exactly, so then who cares if their colleague is marko stunt or orange cassidy?
> 
> of course someone will defend dog food gimmicks in 2020


Reigns is bulletproof and getting shit on is Corbins reason for being. The fake outrage over it was hilarious. Plus, like I said, the match where Corbin ate it drew a 7 percent increase over the segment before it, which is the whole point of TV. To get people to watch.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Reigns is bulletproof and getting shit on is Corbins reason for being. The fake outrage over it was hilarious. Plus, like I said, the match where Corbin ate it drew a 7 percent increase over the segment before it, which is the whole point of TV. To get people to watch.


and let's go back to your original point, cus you seem to be brushing past it. Why would anyone care enough to not work for AEW if marko stunt or oc is their colleague? The same goofy shit is done in the WWE. Please enlighten me.

My actual point is the goofy shit is done not only in AEW, but WWE. Both are just as goofy. You saw Matt Hardy teleport/hologram. You saw WrestleMania last night.

So before you call me an AEW die-hard, think about who the actual die-hard is here.

Oh and FYI, OC is a top merchandise mover in AEW. So let's go back to the quote. Dogfood got people watching. Great. OC gets merchandise moving. Great.

Time to shut up now, dont you think?


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> and let's go back to your original point, cus you seem to be brushing past it. Why would anyone care enough to not work for AEW if marko stunt or oc is their colleague? The same goofy shit is done in the WWE. Please enlighten me.
> 
> My actual point is the goofy shit is done not only in AEW, but WWE. Both are just as goofy. You saw Matt Hardy teleport/hologram. You saw WrestleMania last night.
> 
> So before you call me an AEW die-hard, think about who the actual die-hard is here.
> 
> Oh and FYI, OC is a top merchandise mover in AEW. So let's go back to the quote. Dogfood got people watching. Great. OC gets merchandise moving. Great.
> 
> Time to shut up now, dont you think?



Because Marko Stunt makes a mockery of the business. Archer actually SOLD for him. Are you fucking shitting me? Seriously? 

See when people say "well, the fans still trust AEW, so they can make mistakes." Ok, inverse that for the actual performers. Vince can make mistakes and do whatever he wants because he pisses Saudi and TV money when he wakes up in the morning. 

See, guys like us on a wrestling forum, we're all marks. We want our favorites to win. Most of the performers with families want to win with a stable paycheck. Its simply not worth it to go to AEW and possibly blacklist yourself from Vinces book when you have no clue where AEW will be in 3 years. So AEW is already behind the 8 ball, and you dont help yourself by having your 7 foot tall super hyped free agent sell for fucking Marko Stunt. Like, get fucked.

As far as selling merch, AEW is basically a Tshirt company, so thats fine. Again, its a philosophy thing. Are you satisfied with the same 600 to 800K watching and buying merch? Then cool. Thats awesome. Or are you trying to appeal to the masses and actually make a run at WWE 5 years from now when their TV deals are up. I suppose its all in what they really want their company to be. What I can tell you is the 1.4 million who tuned in that first night wanted that. 

And, Matt Hardy is not the fucking Undertaker. Thats so dumb to compare. Plus, they didnt actually show him teleport. AEW actually used like the 1960 comedy stop motion imagery of Jericho in different positions watching as Hardy teleported around a wrestling arena in real time. Stop reaching like that. You're smarter than that and I know it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because Marko Stunt makes a mockery of the business. Archer actually SOLD for him. Are you fucking shitting me? Seriously?
> 
> See when people say "well, the fans still trust AEW, so they can make mistakes." Ok, inverse that for the actual performers. Vince can make mistakes and do whatever he wants because he pisses Saudi and TV money when he wakes up in the morning.
> 
> See, guys like us on a wrestling forum, we're all marks. We want our favorites to win. Most of the performers with families want to win with a stable paycheck. Its simply not worth it to go to AEW and possibly blacklist yourself from Vinces book when you have no clue where AEW will be in 3 years. So AEW is already behind the 8 ball, and you dont help yourself by having your 7 foot tall super hyped free agent sell for fucking Marko Stunt. Like, get fucked.
> 
> As far as selling merch, AEW is basically a Tshirt company, so thats fine. Again, its a philosophy thing. Are you satisfied with the same 600 to 800K watching and buying merch? Then cool. Thats awesome. Or are you trying to appeal to the masses and actually make a run at WWE 5 years from now when their TV deals are up. I suppose its all in what they really want their company to be. What I can tell you is the 1.4 million who tuned in that first night wanted that.
> 
> And, Matt Hardy is not the fucking Undertaker. Thats so dumb to compare. Plus, they didnt actually show him teleport. AEW actually used like the 1960 comedy stop motion imagery of Jericho in different positions watching as Hardy teleported around a wrestling arena in real time. Stop reaching like that. You're smarter than that and I know it.


You make a fair point about uncertainty around AEW. That's no doubt. It's a new company. Who knows what this economic crisis could do to AEW.

However, if you think that "marko stunt" and "orange cassidy" are the reasons why people won't join AEW, then jesus christ lol. Hasn't stopped those who have joined after AEW opened its doors. Stop thinking like a mark and start thinking like an employee.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> You make a fair point about uncertainty around AEW. That's no doubt. It's a new company. Who knows what this economic crisis could do to AEW.
> 
> However, if you think that "marko stunt" and "orange cassidy" are the reasons why people won't join AEW, then jesus christ lol.



Im saying any big time free agent who was even considering it just watched their super hyped 7 foot free agent managed by Jake the fucking Snake have to sell for Marko Stunt in his first match. If you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that isnt a turn off, then you and I just will have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im saying any big time free agent who was even considering it just watched their super hyped 7 foot free agent managed by Jake the fucking Snake have to sell for Marko Stunt in his first match. If you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that isnt a turn off, then you and I just will have to agree to disagree.


Where did the selling occur? I don't recall Marko having any genuine offense. If you're talking about the enzeguiri(?) then it was obvious by normal wrestling storytelling that archer was playing possum so he could do the tackle.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Where did the selling occur? I don't recall Marko having any genuine offense. If you're talking about the enzeguiri(?) then it was obvious by normal wrestling storytelling that archer was playing possum so he could do the tackle.



The enzigirui and the two dropkicks. I didnt take it as playing possum and apparently neither did a guy like Cornette whos been in wrestling 40 years. He shrugged them off but they still moved him back and he sold.

And anyway, why the fuck would Lance Archer have to play possum to beat Marko Stunt..My God that just makes it WORSE lol. Holy shit.


----------



## El Hammerstone

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im saying any big time free agent who was even considering it just watched their super hyped 7 foot free agent managed by Jake the fucking Snake have to sell for Marko Stunt in his first match. If you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that isnt a turn off, then you and I just will have to agree to disagree.


I recall an indy wrestler blasting Marko Stunt being on the roster over other more legitimate athletes several months ago, before Stunt was even featured in matches as often as he is now. I guarantee that there are many others who are thinking along those same lines as well, they simply have kept quiet about it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> The enzigirui and the two dropkicks. I didnt take it as playing possum and apparently neither did a guy like Cornette whos been in wrestling 40 years. He shrugged them off but they still moved him back and he sold.
> 
> And anyway, why the fuck would Lance Archer have to play possum to beat Marko Stunt..My God that just makes it WORSE lol. Holy shit.


in what way? it's a standard wrestling arch. archer was having fun, you saw the sadistic smile on his face. him playing possum was just him trolling stunt. pretty standard storytelling.

you mentioned the dogwood being a standard wrestling storyline. but yet it's not ok here? ok then.

continue trying to write off aew like nothing, same goofy shit happens in both companies, yet here you are.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> in what way? it's a standard wrestling arch. archer was having fun, you saw the sadistic smile on his face. him playing possum was just him trolling stunt. pretty standard storytelling.
> 
> you mentioned the dogwood being a standard wrestling storyline. but yet it's not ok here? ok then.
> 
> continue trying to write off aew like nothing, same goofy shit happens in both companies, yet here you are.



When did I write AEW off lol? What does that even mean? I watch every show. I like stuff they do. But they make egregious errors simply because Tony Khan is too nice and everyone has to get their shit in.

Again its just a philosophy thing. If TNT is cool with the same 800k and you're making a little money and running the show you want, thats awesome. More power to you. 

And look, I see what they were going for. I dont hate the intent per say. They wanted to emphasize how big Archer is and give him someone to toss around. I get it. But putting him against Stunt makes it look like a circus act, a comedy scene from Mad TV or something. And why would a sports based company ( not my words by the way, remember that) book such a hideous mismatch anyway? No athletic commission would approve such a thing. You could have done the same thing with Chuckie T or the Librarian and it would have worked much better because he was destroying an actual grown athlete. This just didnt make sense and looked stupid.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RainmakerV2 said:


> When did I write AEW off lol? What does that even mean? I watch every show. I like stuff they do. But they make egregious errors simply because Tony Khan is too nice and everyone has to get their shit in.
> 
> Again its just a philosophy thing. If TNT is cool with the same 800k and you're making a little money and running the show you want, thats awesome. More power to you.
> 
> And look, I see what they were going for. I dont hate the intent per say. They wanted to emphasize how big Archer is and give him someone to toss around. I get it. But putting him against Stunt makes it look like a circus act, a comedy scene from Mad TV or something. And why would a sports based company ( not my words by the way, remember that) book such a hideous mismatch anyway? No athletic commission would approve such a thing. You could have done the same thing with Chuckie T or the Librarian and it would have worked much better because he was destroying an actual grown athlete. This just didnt make sense and looked stupid.


LOL people critique this but are okay with the Wyatt/Cena "match" that main evented the biggest show in the industry last night or the Hardy/Jericho drone nonsense.

Gotcha. Love the bias against AEW guys that arent from WWE, it will only make them stronger. If I am a big 7 foot dude and saw how they have debuted Acher id be bugging my agent to get a deal done fast. He looks like a million bucks, they gave him an amazing mouthpiece, they slotted him into a feud with the companies biggest babyface, and they let him throw a guy from the ring into the stands. All on a major national tv cable network.

Yes, sign me up.


----------



## RainmakerV2

TKO Wrestling said:


> LOL people critique this but are okay with the Wyatt/Cena "match" that main evented the biggest show in the industry last night or the Hardy/Jericho drone nonsense.
> 
> Gotcha. Love the bias against AEW guys that arent from WWE, it will only make them stronger. If I am a big 7 foot dude and saw how they have debuted Acher id be bugging my agent to get a deal done fast. He looks like a million bucks, they gave him an amazing mouthpiece, they slotted him into a feud with the companies biggest babyface, and they let him throw a guy from the ring into the stands. All on a major national tv cable network.
> 
> Yes, sign me up.



That Cena Wyatt match was an abomination. Why do you assume because someone criticizes AEW they automatically love what WWE does? Doing dumb shit isnt reserved for one company or another.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> That Cena Wyatt match was an abomination. Why do you assume because someone criticizes AEW they automatically love what WWE does? Doing dumb shit isnt reserved for one company or another.


i honestly enjoyed that segment. wouldn't call it a match.


RainmakerV2 said:


> When did I write AEW off lol? What does that even mean? I watch every show. I like stuff they do. But they make egregious errors simply because Tony Khan is too nice and everyone has to get their shit in.
> 
> Again its just a philosophy thing. If TNT is cool with the same 800k and you're making a little money and running the show you want, thats awesome. More power to you.
> 
> And look, I see what they were going for. I dont hate the intent per say. They wanted to emphasize how big Archer is and give him someone to toss around. I get it. But putting him against Stunt makes it look like a circus act, a comedy scene from Mad TV or something. And why would a sports based company ( not my words by the way, remember that) book such a hideous mismatch anyway? No athletic commission would approve such a thing. You could have done the same thing with Chuckie T or the Librarian and it would have worked much better because he was destroying an actual grown athlete. This just didnt make sense and looked stupid.


that's the funniest thing. TNT _are_ cool with it. Dynamite till 2024 or whenever. TNT championship, meaning TNT execs signed off on the use of the name.

Anyway, back to your original post. No, having Marko Stunt or OC on the roster does *not* mean that a wrestler _has_ to face them. And no, having those 2 on the roster has not stopped other wrestlers from coming in. This is just your anti-AEW pro-WWE mind getting excited at the thought of it potentially happening. But go off.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> i honestly enjoyed that segment. wouldn't call it a match.
> 
> that's the funniest thing. TNT _are_ cool with it. Dynamite till 2024 or whenever. TNT championship, meaning TNT execs signed off on the use of the name.
> 
> Anyway, back to your original post. No, having Marko Stunt or OC on the roster does not mean that a wrestler _has_ to face them. And no, having those 2 on the roster has not stopped other wrestlers from coming in. This is just your *anti-AEW pro-WWE* mind getting excited at the thought of it potentially happening. But go off.


Jesus fucking Christ, people in this forum need to stop with this garbage.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> Jesus fucking Christ, people in this forum need to stop with this garbage.


 please stop white knighting dawg. nobody is talking to you.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> i honestly enjoyed that segment. wouldn't call it a match.
> 
> that's the funniest thing. TNT _are_ cool with it. Dynamite till 2024 or whenever. TNT championship, meaning TNT execs signed off on the use of the name.
> 
> Anyway, back to your original post. No, having Marko Stunt or OC on the roster does *not* mean that a wrestler _has_ to face them. And no, having those 2 on the roster has not stopped other wrestlers from coming in. This is just your anti-AEW pro-WWE mind getting excited at the thought of it potentially happening. But go off.



Im not Anti or Pro any company over another. Im pro good pro wrestling that makes sense. Both companies accomplish this some times, both fall flat on their ass sometimes.


Yes, I know TNT is on board. Thats good for stability. Im a pro wrestling nerd, we all are. If there's major pro wrestling on my TV i will most likely watch.

I still dont know why you insist Im anti AEW. Again, like ive said on here many times, some of their first shows were the best pro wrestling TV I had seen in years. The reason was simple, the show was The Elite vs. The Inner Circle. That was the show. It was easy to follow and get into.

Now the show just seems like a hodgepodge of ideas thrown together. Its not all their fault per say. The hardcores tune in expecting an NJPW sports like show with Omega having 45 minute strong style classics. The casuals hear this company is starting with a billionaire backing and rumors of CM Punk and Edge, and they're thinking WCW 1997. They couldnt deliver either to their fans and now you have what you have.

The main issue is the people in power and their view of pro wrestling. Omega and the Bucks have their goofy modern style. Cody has his Memphis style thinking, Khan is an ECW guy, and then Jericho who has a bunch of stroke has a different philosophy than all of em. On the same show you have Jake the Snake, Cody running Memphis style angles, Marko Stunt, and Omega on commentary fucking talking about the meltzer rating of his matches. Its all just a hodgepodge of stuff. Theres no clear direction or vision.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> please stop white knighting dawg. nobody is talking to you.


I'll interject whenever I damn well please. AEW criticisms don't equal WWE fan, get that through your head already.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im not Anti or Pro any company over another. Im pro good pro wrestling that makes sense. Both companies accomplish this some times, both fall flat on their ass sometimes.
> 
> 
> Yes, I know TNT is on board. Thats good for stability. Im a pro wrestling nerd, we all are. If there's major pro wrestling on my TV i will most likely watch.
> I still dont know why you insist Im anti AEW. Again, like ive said on here many times, some of their first shows were the best pro wrestling TV I had seen in years. The reason was simple, the show was The Elite vs. The Inner Circle. That was the show. It was easy to follow and get into.
> 
> Now the show just seems like a hodgepodge of ideas thrown together. Its not all their fault per say. The hardcores tune in expecting an NJPW sports like show with Omega having 45 minute strong style classics. The casuals hear this company is starting with a billionaire backing and rumors of CM Punk and Edge, and they're thinking WCW 1997. They couldnt deliver either to their fans and now you have what you have.
> 
> The main issue is the people in power and their view of pro wrestling. Omega and the Bucks have their goofy modern style. Cody has his Memphis style thinking, Khan is an ECW guy, and then Jericho who has a bunch of stroke has a different philosophy than all of em. On the same show you have Jake the Snake, Cody running Memphis style angles, Marko Stunt, and Omega on commentary fucking talking about the meltzer rating of his matches. Its all just a hodgepodge of stuff. Theres no clear direction or vision.


i hate the bucks and i completely agree with you about the hodgepodge of ideas. they need one direction.

but my original thing was how having marko stunt and oc on the roster doesn't mean that people stop working for aew. it hasn't kept others away. at the end of the day, it's a job.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> i hate the bucks and i completely agree with you about the hodgepodge of ideas. they need one direction.
> 
> but my original thing was how having marko stunt and oc on the roster doesn't mean that people stop working for aew. it hasn't kept others away. at the end of the day, it's a job.


Well its always good to find common ground.


----------



## Britz94xD

Pretty much everyone seems to agree that the "buffet" idea sucks and that they need a singular vision to direct the show. My vote for booker goes to Jim Cornette. Dutch Mantell and Jim Ross would be his wingmen while Tony Khan oversees everything.

The top stars like Cody, Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Bucks can veto ideas and give input in a limited capacity. Corny would be abrasive but he would bring out the best in all of them, would cut out all the BS and they'd create art out of adversity. Plus Corny vs Bucks/Omega would draw huge.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Britz94xD said:


> Pretty much everyone seems to agree that the "buffet" idea sucks and that they need a singular vision to direct the show. My vote for booker goes to Jim Cornette. Dutch Mantell and Jim Ross would be his wingmen while Tony Khan oversees everything.
> 
> The top stars like Cody, Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Bucks can veto ideas and give input in a limited capacity. Corny would be abrasive but he would bring out the best in all of them, would cut out all the BS and they'd create art out of adversity. Plus Corny vs Bucks/Omega would draw huge.


heheheheheheee


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Wood said:


> You are allowed to have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find it widely shared by anyone being sincere. You can tell me that Paul Blart: Mall Cop is a better movie than Animal House too. The Shield are one of the few things in the past decade to actually get over. It's cool you're enjoying it, but if you cannot step outside that and look at the significance and quality of his other work, then...okay. That's you.
> 
> 
> 
> Mox's first promo is not considered the best of his career. His FCW ones are more highly regarded by the hardcore audience. Also the debut Shield one is considered excellent too. He said more with "Nope" than he's ever said in AEW. Jericho is a meme machine wherever he goes. "You just made the list!" "IT!" "Stupid idiot!" They caught on just as much as "Bubbly." Jericho is basically arrogant heel rock star Jericho, aged, with the poise of 2008 Jericho. I don't know how you can say his work is so radically different.
> 
> I don't really buy your Horsemen and nWo meaning The Shield didn't impress you thing if you're going to pretend to be so damn impressed with the Inner Circle. And they're not awful, don't get me wrong, but they are NOT the fucking Horsemen, that's for sure. It's the WWE rent-a-stable gimmick. Get the top heel, give him the lackey, the bodyguard and the tag team. Boom. Let's do it with Sami Zayn in WWE. Zayn needs a lackey -- let's go Austin Theory. Cesaro & Nakamura as a tag team. Needs a bodyguard. Let's move over Bobby Lashley. Done. There's your Zayn Line. Hey, Austin, go out there and pretend you get texts from people during Sami's promos and show pictures that women send you. Cesaro, you don't say anything, but you stand there in a suit. Nakamura, pull weird faces. Bobby, you just mean-mug whenever anyone tries to get close to Sami. Alright, go.
> 
> I'm not even trying to bury the Inner Circle with that, but come on. You are clearly sooooo biased towards AEW. And that's your prerogative. But just admit it is bias instead of trying to spin it like one is so radically different from the other.





The Wood said:


> You are allowed to have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find it widely shared by anyone being sincere. You can tell me that Paul Blart: Mall Cop is a better movie than Animal House too. The Shield are one of the few things in the past decade to actually get over. It's cool you're enjoying it, but if you cannot step outside that and look at the significance and quality of his other work, then...okay. That's you.
> 
> 
> 
> Mox's first promo is not considered the best of his career. His FCW ones are more highly regarded by the hardcore audience. Also the debut Shield one is considered excellent too. He said more with "Nope" than he's ever said in AEW. Jericho is a meme machine wherever he goes. "You just made the list!" "IT!" "Stupid idiot!" They caught on just as much as "Bubbly." Jericho is basically arrogant heel rock star Jericho, aged, with the poise of 2008 Jericho. I don't know how you can say his work is so radically different.
> 
> I don't really buy your Horsemen and nWo meaning The Shield didn't impress you thing if you're going to pretend to be so damn impressed with the Inner Circle. And they're not awful, don't get me wrong, but they are NOT the fucking Horsemen, that's for sure. It's the WWE rent-a-stable gimmick. Get the top heel, give him the lackey, the bodyguard and the tag team. Boom. Let's do it with Sami Zayn in WWE. Zayn needs a lackey -- let's go Austin Theory. Cesaro & Nakamura as a tag team. Needs a bodyguard. Let's move over Bobby Lashley. Done. There's your Zayn Line. Hey, Austin, go out there and pretend you get texts from people during Sami's promos and show pictures that women send you. Cesaro, you don't say anything, but you stand there in a suit. Nakamura, pull weird faces. Bobby, you just mean-mug whenever anyone tries to get close to Sami. Alright, go.
> 
> I'm not even trying to bury the Inner Circle with that, but come on. You are clearly sooooo biased towards AEW. And that's your prerogative. But just admit it is bias instead of trying to spin it like one is so radically different from the other.





The Wood said:


> You are allowed to have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find it widely shared by anyone being sincere. You can tell me that Paul Blart: Mall Cop is a better movie than Animal House too. The Shield are one of the few things in the past decade to actually get over. It's cool you're enjoying it, but if you cannot step outside that and look at the significance and quality of his other work, then...okay. That's you.
> 
> 
> 
> Mox's first promo is not considered the best of his career. His FCW ones are more highly regarded by the hardcore audience. Also the debut Shield one is considered excellent too. He said more with "Nope" than he's ever said in AEW. Jericho is a meme machine wherever he goes. "You just made the list!" "IT!" "Stupid idiot!" They caught on just as much as "Bubbly." Jericho is basically arrogant heel rock star Jericho, aged, with the poise of 2008 Jericho. I don't know how you can say his work is so radically different.
> 
> I don't really buy your Horsemen and nWo meaning The Shield didn't impress you thing if you're going to pretend to be so damn impressed with the Inner Circle. And they're not awful, don't get me wrong, but they are NOT the fucking Horsemen, that's for sure. It's the WWE rent-a-stable gimmick. Get the top heel, give him the lackey, the bodyguard and the tag team. Boom. Let's do it with Sami Zayn in WWE. Zayn needs a lackey -- let's go Austin Theory. Cesaro & Nakamura as a tag team. Needs a bodyguard. Let's move over Bobby Lashley. Done. There's your Zayn Line. Hey, Austin, go out there and pretend you get texts from people during Sami's promos and show pictures that women send you. Cesaro, you don't say anything, but you stand there in a suit. Nakamura, pull weird faces. Bobby, you just mean-mug whenever anyone tries to get close to Sami. Alright, go.
> 
> I'm not even trying to bury the Inner Circle with that, but come on. You are clearly sooooo biased towards AEW. And that's your prerogative. But just admit it is bias instead of trying to spin it like one is so radically different from the other.


Ambrose was my favorite wrestler in WWE, long before AEW was even a remote concept. Not particularly sure how me enjoying his newer work in AEW over his work in the Shield makes me "unappreciative" of his prior work, but sure.

The Mall cop/Animal house analogy was redundant.

Edit : Nice to see you were somehow quoted three times.


----------



## Britz94xD

Cornette probably has the most experience booking weekly wrestling TV than anyone in the US, besides Vince.

He would get rid of the silly nonsense that everyone on here hates. He wouldn't have Stunt vs Archer etc.

Right now AEW are like George Lucas on the SW prequels. They need someone who's willing to say to them "This is BS and here's why". They already listen to his podcasts and take his advice so might as well hire him officially at this point.


----------



## rbl85

Dude both side are hating each other, they'll never work together.

And no they Don't take his advice.


----------



## Britz94xD

rbl85 said:


> Dude both side are hating each other, they'll never work together.
> 
> And no they Don't take his advice.


That's why they should work together. By all accounts what AEW are doing right now isn't working, They need veterans who specialised in the type of wrestling they are supposedly trying to recreate. There'll be a time when guys like Cornette, Mantell and the other legends die and they'll take that wrestling knowledge to the grave with them. Wrestling will be a lost art and the only way we'll be able to learn anything about it is from 40 year old videotapes.

They could literally just hire him as "booking consultant". Corny gives them a show bible like game of thrones where he books an entire year in advance, then they can pick and choose the stuff they like and eschew the stuff that don't.


----------



## rbl85

That will never happen.


----------



## Britz94xD

I know but do you think the Dynamite would be better if Cornette, JR and Mantell were in charge of the booking?


----------



## EmbassyForever

Britz94xD said:


> I know but do you think the Dynamite would be better if Cornette, JR and Mantell were in charge of the booking?


lmao. NO.

Cornette was a DISASTER when he was the head booker of ROH, almost drove them out of business, a colossal flop.
If he was considered out of touch in 2012, just imagine how his wrestling show would look like in 2020. Bruh. Cmon.


----------



## Cult03

RainmakerV2 said:


> That Cena Wyatt match was an abomination. *Why do you assume because someone criticizes AEW they automatically love what WWE does? Doing dumb shit isnt reserved for one company or another.*


Just wondering, did you get a response to this? I've probably said it 25 times to these blokes and it never gets a response. Yet they keep using the "but WWE did it first" argument like it means something.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The constant overanalyzing of both the negative and positives of this company have made this forum both unbearable and toxic (though I suppose they coincide)

Now the vast majority of members are quite positive but there is a very small yet very vocal minority who seem hell bent on criticizing every little movement the company makes. I would recommend ignoring said individuals and focusing more on individuals with more constructive criticism who also focus on the positives.

It seems the overwhelming vast majority of posters here are on one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.

A happy medium goes a long way. Realistically speaking - If an individual is showing up here to discuss AEW on a weekly basis nearly a full year after their first show and is STILL providing nothing but negative views towards their content it's probably best not to take their criticism overly seriously.

Now I'll admit I'll criticize AEW (particularly Marko Stunt and long unnecessary matches) but I also see far more positives than negatives and that is why I'm here posting on a weekly basis about both.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> The constant overanalyzing of both the negative and positives of this company have made this forum both unbearable and toxic (though I suppose they coincide)
> 
> Now the vast majority of members are quite positive but there is a very small yet very vocal minority who seem hell bent on criticizing every little movement the company makes. I would recommend ignoring said individuals and focusing more on individuals with more constructive criticism who also focus on the positives.
> 
> It seems the overwhelming vast majority of posters here are on one extreme end of the spectrum of the other.
> 
> A happy medium goes a long way. Realistically speaking - If an individual is showing up here to discuss AEW on a weekly basis nearly a full year after their first show and is STILL providing nothing but negative views towards their content it's probably best not to take their criticism overly seriously.
> 
> Now I'll admit I'll criticize AEW (particularly Marko Stunt and long unnecessary matches) but I also see far more positives than negatives and that is why I'm here posting on a weekly basis about both.


Here's the problem, the vocal minority say plenty of positives but they never get noticed or spoken about. When they say something is a negative, even if it's very obvious, there is no happy medium because those AEW sycophants can not just admit that there are some things wrong with this company. This results in an argument making it seem like those people are more negative than they actually have been. AEW has been good, but it's also been terrible. Ignoring those who are critical is actually just weak. Not being able to accept or even have a conversation about criticisms is one of the most toxic traits a human can have.

How difficult is it to just say "yeah that part was pretty shit and wasn't the best option" instead of "I love that Marko Stunt is getting television time over someone else"?


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Here's the problem, the vocal minority say plenty of positives but they never get noticed or spoken about. When they say something is a negative, even if it's very obvious, there is no happy medium because those AEW sycophants can not just admit that there are some things wrong with this company. This results in an argument making it seem like those people are more negative than they actually have been. AEW has been good, but it's also been terrible. Ignoring those who are critical is actually just weak. Not being able to accept or even have a conversation about criticisms is one of the most toxic traits a human can have.
> 
> How difficult is it to just say "yeah that part was pretty shit and wasn't the best option" instead of "I love that Marko Stunt is getting television time over someone else"?


I'm not particularly sure of what you're getting at with this response. I was talking about individuals at opposite ends of the spectrum, yet you automatically assumed I was singling you out as an overly negative individual(hence why you defended negative individuals) - what gave you that impression?

Ignoring those who are overly critical is not weak - its logical. They're trolls. They wouldn't be here on an hourly basis if there wasn't an attraction - yet they focus almost purely on nothing but negatives.

I've had plenty of criticism for AEW - I've also had plenty of positives. Choosing to ignore individuals who express nothing but disdainful comments towards the company on a daily/weekly basis yet still tune in isn't "weak"


It's called being logical. Identify the trolls for what they are - trolls.
I don't show up to weekly RAW or Smackdown threats - why? Because I think it's terrible. I'll show up every month or two and express my blatant disappoint in how atrocious their product is and that'll be it, I'll be gone for another couple of months until I'm bored.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> Im not particularly sure of what you're getting at with this response. I was talking about individuals at opposite ends of the spectrum, yet you automatically assumed I was singling you out as an overly negative individual(hence why you defended negative individuals) - what have you that impression?
> 
> Ignoring those who are overly critical is not weak - its logical. They're trolls. They wouldn't be here on an hourly basis if there wasn't an attraction - yet they focus almost purely on nothing but negatives.
> 
> I've had plenty of criticism for AEW - I've also had plenty of positives. Choosing to ignore individuals who express nothing but disdainful comments towards the company on a daily/weekly basis yet still tune in isn't "weak"
> 
> 
> It's called being logical. Identify the trolls for what they are - trolls.
> I don't show up to weekly RAW or Smackdown threats - why? Because I think it's terrible. I'll show up every month or two and express my blatant disappoint in how atrocious their product is and that'll be it, I'll be gone for another couple of months until I'm bored.


Well apart from being lumped in with them at every opportunity by some people, I was mostly just defending the people who do criticize this company. There's very few trolls on here and if you have conviction, you'd respond to them or at least tag them. 

Ignoring other opinions is weak. It creates an echo chamber and gives you the impression that everyone agrees with your opinion. First step of identifying trolls as what they are is by actually identifying them. Go ahead.


----------



## Britz94xD

EmbassyForever said:


> lmao. NO.
> 
> Cornette was a DISASTER when he was the head booker of ROH, almost drove them out of business, a colossal flop.
> If he was considered out of touch in 2012, just imagine how his wrestling show would look like in 2020. Bruh. Cmon.


Eh..It's not like Ring of honor was that good to begin with. I'm not suggesting Cornette in AEW would be the lone booker, he would work in conjunction with the top talent, tony khan and other key people. They would reign In Cornette's annoying tendencies and he would give them the aura of legitimacy that they supposedly want and cut out their propensity for BS also. It's a Win-Win situation.

I'm sure it would be a less fun work environment for everyone involved but the adversity would improve the quality of the shows.

Who would you guys want to be booker? If anyone?


----------



## bdon

I just scrolled through 15 pages catching up, and I laughed at the thought of Brock in AEW. There isn’t one person he would be willing to sell for in a match. Maybe Archer..? Maybe Omega if having a great, all-time talked about match is something he has on his career bucket list.

The rest? I can’t see it. It would delegitimize Brock’s entire character work of being a legit tough guy.


----------



## Britz94xD

Who said anything about Brock selling for people? He could just go there, destroy everyone, win the belt, retire as undefeated champion and that would still be a positive for AEW. Don't know what that says about AEW but it's true.

If Lesnar was happy having competitive matches with Punk and Daniel Bryan then I don't see why he'd be against an Omega match, providing he's winning of course.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> I know but do you think the Dynamite would be better if Cornette, JR and Mantell were in charge of the booking?


Cornette is out of touch.


----------



## Britz94xD

optikk sucks said:


> Cornette is out of touch.


Just from listening to his podcasts, his criticism of AEW (and WWE) sounds level headed and reasonable. Tony Khan seems to respect him enough to take a lot of his suggestions.


----------



## Pippen94

Britz94xD said:


> Just from listening to his podcasts, his criticism of AEW (and WWE) sounds level headed and reasonable. Tony Khan seems to respect him enough to take a lot of his suggestions.


Ha ha - nobody is taking booking advice from him


----------



## Britz94xD

Well if they are going to do Lance Archer vs a little kid, maybe they should've listened to him.

Wrestling is the least popular it's ever been in the last 50 years but somehow wrestling has "evolved" and the Corny's of the world are out of touch.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> Just from listening to his podcasts, his criticism of AEW (and WWE) sounds level headed and reasonable. Tony Khan seems to respect him enough to take a lot of his suggestions.


Doesn’t change the fact that he’s out of touch.
Idk what ideas TK has taken from him.

Clearly they don’t consult him or they wouldn’t have introduced the TNT championship and whatever else he has criticised.


----------



## Aedubya

Is this the Jim Cornette thread?


----------



## Britz94xD

optikk sucks said:


> Doesn’t change the fact that he’s out of touch.


Says who? That's just something people repeat as if saying it enough times make it so.



Aedubya said:


> Is this the Jim Cornette thread?


My Bad.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> Says who? That's just something people repeat as if saying it enough times make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> My Bad.


How is smoky mountain doing

if AEW lasts longer than 4 years, lmao.


----------



## Britz94xD

optikk sucks said:


> How is smoky mountain doing
> 
> if AEW lasts longer than 4 years, lmao.


Like 99.9% of all wrestling promotions that ever existed have gone out of business, so that means every single one of those promoters/bookers are failures? 

You can't really compare a regional promotion with a tiny budget to one that's on TNT that has almost unlimited cash at their disposal.

Paul Heyman is running Raw despite having similar number of failures and successes as Corny yet he's not considered "out of touch". Strange.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> *Doesn’t change the fact that he’s out of touch.*
> Idk what ideas TK has taken from him.
> 
> Clearly they don’t consult him or they wouldn’t have introduced the TNT championship and whatever else he has criticised.


I'd like to hear why? Like, I'm not a huge fan because of the way he says things, but the content and what he would do instead is usually pretty spot on and far better ideas than the crap some companies do. Wrestling hasn't changed enough to become out of touch, unless you have your head in a bubble like Vince does


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> Like 99.9% of all wrestling promotions that ever existed have gone out of business, so that means every single one of those promoters/bookers are failures?
> 
> You can't really compare a regional promotion with a tiny budget to one that's on TNT that has almost unlimited cash at their disposal.
> 
> Paul Heyman is running Raw despite having similar number of failures and successes as Corny yet he's not considered "out of touch". Strange.


Paul Heyman is out of touch. You see those ratings they’re pulling?

you may mention AEWs ratings. That’s fine. But there is consistency in AEW ratings. Can’t be said for RAW. SD is also increasing/consistent afaik.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> I'd like to hear why? Like, I'm not a huge fan because of the way he says things, but the content and what he would do instead is usually pretty spot on and far better ideas than the crap some companies do. Wrestling hasn't changed enough to become out of touch, unless you have your head in a bubble like Vince does


Culture has changed man. Kayfabe is dead. MMA has taken over the physical sports genre.

What Cornette believes in is what the TV execs didn’t believe back in 1995 when he had to close doors. Not getting a spot on national TV, losing money by the barrel.

Fresh ideas are needed. WWE gave it to us through those 2 “matches” which is what got people talking - people who dont even watch wrestling have been talking about it. if Cornette slays those 2 “matches”, he’s for sure out of touch. Seen more discussion about the boneyard match than Owens and Rollins, who put on a hell of a show.

I put Cornette, Russo, Heyman etc in the “yesteryears category”. Jim Cornette has insulted everything from the WWE universe gimmick to fucking idk. But he seems to forget the business aspect of it. There is a reason why his wrestling company died after 4 years - no national tv company liked his ideas - and they have millions invested in understanding their viewers.

People who enjoy the athletic/combat side of wrestling are a dying group. You guys looked forward to this athletic/sporty wrestling idea that AEW initially talked about; they killrd that idea once they realised that the majority didn’t want that. only the minority heavy smarky IWC groups who are better off watching the indy leagues where that still draws.


----------



## DaSlacker

Khan needs to book and not be afraid of saying no to Cody, Bucks etc. He should be listening to JR and Jim Cornette, whether directly or indirectly, regarding logic and consistency of presentation. Aim for a less equals more approach where possible. Psychology is the key. For everything else talk to people much younger.

They need to top to the bottom act like what happens in the ring and arena is real, always. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for Cassidy, Stunt etc. Or that they can get it right all the time.

As for ratings, aim for 1 million viewers as the absolute pinnacle and don't get desperate for more. ECW stagnated, as did TNA and NXT. WWE and NWA/WCW grew their viewership, but that's because they'd been neck and neck and a fixture of cable as access boomed. This is the cord cutting era - live attendance and online views give a clearer picture of growth.


----------



## validreasoning

Pro wrestling is still beating mma on tv









RAW TV Ratings Thread


2.2 rtwrm lols




www.wrestlingforum.com







optikk sucks said:


> Paul Heyman is out of touch. You see those ratings they’re pulling?
> 
> you may mention AEWs ratings. That’s fine. But there is consistency in AEW ratings. Can’t be said for RAW. SD is also increasing/consistent afaik.


Not really comparable because you don't have years of AEW numbers to compare.

If you go back to say September the highest raw has averaged is 2.57 million and lowest is 1.84 million for taped show on Christmas Eve Eve. Looking at that small sample numbers seem consistent enough.



Britz94xD said:


> Wrestling is the least popular it's ever been in the last 50 years but somehow wrestling has "evolved" and the Corny's of the world are out of touch.


Last 50 years? 1993-95 did happen as did 2003-04...


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Reigns is bulletproof and getting shit on is Corbins reason for being. The fake outrage over it was hilarious. Plus, like I said, the match where Corbin ate it drew a 7 percent increase over the segment before it, which is the whole point of TV. To get people to watch.


Yeah, I don’t get why people shit on this so much. It’s pretty basic pro-wrestling and I’m fairly certain that it’s got roots in some of the territories. It’s a way for the babyface to embarrass the heel. It’s one of the few SmackDown shows I’ve seen in a while, and I thought Corbin played his part excellently after not being much of a fan at all, and Reigns & The Usos were perfectly likeable.


----------



## The Wood

To whoever said that the AEW ratings are consistent — they lost 16% of their viewers last week. Raw lost 4%. Let’s see where AEW goes before we start labelling them “consistent.”


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

The Wood said:


> To whoever said that the AEW ratings are consistent — they lost 16% of their viewers last week. Raw lost 4%. Let’s see where AEW goes before we start labelling them “consistent.”


Dynamite has been on television about 25 weeks and 20, 21 of those weeks they've drawn somewhere in the 800-900k range. That's pretty consistent.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Lockard The GOAT said:


> Dynamite has been on television about 25 weeks and 20, 21 of those weeks they've drawn somewhere in the 800-900k range. That's pretty consistent.


Consistently low is nothing to brag about. If they kept majority of that initial 1.4m and stayed in the 1m to 1.3m range. Then you can call them consistent as a positive.


----------



## Britz94xD

Don't worry, Lesnar, Punk and Bryan will bring them up to 2 million this year. Keep Positive guys.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Britz94xD said:


> I know but do you think the Dynamite would be better if Cornette, JR and Mantell were in charge of the booking?


No


----------



## imthegame19

Lockard The GOAT said:


> Dynamite has been on television about 25 weeks and 20, 21 of those weeks they've drawn somewhere in the 800-900k range. That's pretty consistent.


Yeah ignore the trolls talking about ratings drops right now. If they weren't trolling or had common sense. Saying oh Raw had smaller drop then AEW. Seriously its go home for Mania of course they would lol. Only someone with agenda would say something like that. If you arent a hater or troll they would understand all this ratings and number stuff is on pause.

When half the roster can't be on the show. Including guys like Adam Page, MJF, Young Bucks, Pac, Lucha Bros and after next week Moxley won't be seen in the arena. Same goes with top new addition in Matt Hardy. While they can't do a lot of matches and storylines that they really wanna do.


They basically doing their title match next week. That they set up the last few weeks. But the rest of these shows are gonna be random matches and this TNT tournament.


So the ratings aren't going to be good and that's OK. As long they keep doing shows they keep getting paid from TNT. Not to mention they are saving shit load of money for production cost.


While at this point TNT is likely thrilled to even have AEW still going. When you consider NBA is done. So even if AEW ratings end up 500,000 that's still fine. Because TNT knows what's going on. They just expect them to rebound once things get back to normal. 


That said it won't stop the usual suspects for trying to use this as opportunity to bring back doom and gloom scenarios. Or say see told you the show shows and make claims people don't wanna really watch the news. Even though ratings show that's what people are mostly watching every night lol. So ignore these people or just laugh at them like I do lol.


----------



## imthegame19

Britz94xD said:


> I know but do you think the Dynamite would be better if Cornette, JR and Mantell were in charge of the booking?


Lol you must be trolling us. Nobody actually really thinks this right? Might as well call up Bill Watts while we are at it.


----------



## Britz94xD

imthegame19 said:


> Lol you must be trolling us. Nobody actually really thinks this right? Might as well call up Bill Watts while we are at it.


Maybe I should've phrased it better.

If Corny, Mantell and Ross were booking, would Dynamite have more of that legit sports-based wrestling that AEW supposedly want?

It might not be good but it'd be closer to the show's original vision than what they've been doing.


----------



## imthegame19

Britz94xD said:


> Don't worry, Lesnar, Punk and Bryan will bring them up to 2 million this year. Keep Positive guys.


Who says they need to be brought to 2 million people this year? Or once the world gets back to normal. They can start averaging around 900,000 viewers a week and grow from their with all the new talent they are adding. 


AEW not making 250 million a year like WWE is. They are making around 45 million a year plus ad revenue. They are paid to do the ratings they are doing. As they grow over the next few years. Thats when you hope to grow to that level on next tv deal. 

It's going to take longer then six months of tv to get over new talent and your company. Plus let's be honest this virus stuff came at a terrible time. 


They just came off a PPV that did very well. The ratings were doing more consistent. With three quality free agent additions in Hardy, Archer and Lee joining the show. The New Jersey show was going to be a million dollar gate for them. With a big blood and guts match potentially leading to over million viewers. 


Now things all went to shit and everything is on pause. Of course WWE had Mania how they wanted it ruined. So AEW can't complain too much. But things were looking strong and like the company was going to start to grow. Now we're gonna have to wait this out. Then see if they can get their momentum back when this is all done.


----------



## Ozell Gray

[QUOTE="imthegame19, post: 782
[/QUOTE]

Except Smackdown and several other shows saw increases in tv ratings and they WENT HEAD TO HEAD WITH THE NEWS. So this disproves your false claim about Dynamite's viewership being low because people would rather watch the news. Dynamite just isn't good and tv ratings reflect that.

Networks will still cancel shows if the tv ratings get low.They don't care about the pathetic excuse of COVID 19 news but of course this won't stop the fanboys from making up excuses about the horrible tv ratings.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> Maybe I should've phrased it better.
> 
> If Corny, Mantell and Ross were booking, would Dynamite have more of that legit sports-based wrestling that AEW supposedly want?
> 
> It might not be good but it'd be closer to the show's original vision than what they've been doing.


sports-based does not draw. only smarks think that. who wants to watch a fake sport? not me


----------



## imthegame19

Britz94xD said:


> Maybe I should've phrased it better.
> 
> If Corny, Mantell and Ross were booking, would Dynamite have more of that legit sports-based wrestling that AEW supposedly want?
> 
> It might not be good but it'd be closer to the show's original vision than what they've been doing.


Possibly but I don't think it would be as good. I still love that AEW doesn't do DQs. I love that they won't just do random title matches without building up guys to earn that shot. As we are seeing now with Hager/Moxley.

We won't see random Big Show getting a title match. Or Braun Strowman getting title shot after losing IC title. So IMO stuff like that makes more sense and feels more sports base.

Plus When AEW talked doing sports base wrestling. I think they meant more althetic fast paced action as well. With Young Bucks, Omega, Lucha Bro kinda stuff. Guys like Cornette wouldn't view that as sports base. He wants people to believe it's real and we are beyond that point. Which is why he's out of touch and doesn't realize you need to other things to entertain. In this day and age if people wanna see real fights. They watch UFC fights and won't watch wrestling. UFC/MMA wasn't a big thing in 80s and 90s like it is now.


So there view for sports base is more entertaining action. While making titles matter more and more meaningful. Guys don't just come out of retirement and beat top guys in matches here. So what they are doing is far more entertaining less insulting then WWE.


Yes they are trying to find a good mix by having serious sports based wrestling. While trying to have some comedy or interesting characters. For me as long as they treat the main event scene and top singles guys seriously. Well I don't mind mixing in comedy in lower cards or trying different more entertainment base stuff in the under card.


Because people like entertment of comedy or hokey stories too. As seen at Mania this week with Otis/Mandy and Boneyard and Fun House stuff. As long as that stuff isn't done with the top stars much in AEW its fine. As long as they keep what matters the most strong.


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> Who says they need to be brought to 2 million people this year? Or once the world gets back to normal. They can start averaging around 900,000 viewers a week and grow from their with all the new talent they are adding.


They were stuck and stagnating 800-900,000 since November and they never grew.


AEW not making 250 million a year like WWE is. They are making around 45 million a year plus ad revenue. They are paid to do the ratings they are doing. As they grow over the next few years. Thats when you hope to grow to that level on next tv deal.

[/QUOTE]

They're not going to grow so there is no when they grow. They only appeal to smarks NOT casuals so theres 0 chance of them growing. And they won't ever get WWE type of money so you can get this fantasy your of your head.

It's going to take longer then six months of tv to get over new talent and your company. Plus let's be honest this virus stuff came at a terrible time.


[/QUOTE]

The virus is an excuse because like I said Smackdown and other shows saw INCREASES in viewership despite going HEAD TO HEAD WITH COVID 19 NEWS. Not to mention since their tv ratings were stagnant they were always going to decline anyway and anyone that works in the tv industry will tell that.


They just came off a PPV that did very well. The ratings were doing more consistent. With three quality free agent additions in Hardy, Archer and Lee joining the show. The New Jersey show was going to be a million dollar gate for them. With a big blood and guts match potentially leading to over million viewers.


[/QUOTE]

This $1 million gate claim came from Meltzer and no one else has confirmed this so I'd take this with a grain of salt. And again they were stagnating at 800-900,000 since November and hasn't grown since, and they weren't getting a million viewers even with Blood & Guts because they didn't get a million with Jericho's cruise, nor did they get a million viewers with Bash at the Beach in January. Theres 0 evidence to show they were going to get a million viewers and even if they do Blood & Guts they still weren't getting a million viewers anyway.


Now things all went to shit and everything is on pause. Of course WWE had Mania how they wanted it ruined. So AEW can't complain too much. But things were looking strong and like the company was going to start to grow. Now we're gonna have to wait this out. Then see if they can get their momentum back when this is all done.
[/QUOTE]

Things weren't looking strong like the company was going to grow, because everything that they've hasn't worked for them to grow because attendance was dropping rapidly and tv ratings were stagnant. They lost their "momentum" after their debut in October so they never had any "momentum" after that.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> To whoever said that the AEW ratings are consistent — they lost 16% of their viewers last week. Raw lost 4%. Let’s see where AEW goes before we start labelling them “consistent.”


I don’t think either promotion can be judged during this pandemic.

wwe has a history of fans who will watch no matter what.

aew are a new company that are hit and miss with their shows, much like wwf were in the 90s. They’re ratings have been pretty consistent from about a month in to the start of this pandemic. Clearly they’ve suffered more from this pandemic due to not having the same base of viewers WWE have.

personally I’m criticising neither promotion, but AEW is by far the better empty arena show at the moment, I don’t miss the crowd as much watching their shows as I do WWE.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> [QUOTE="imthegame19, post: 782


Except Smackdown and several other shows saw increases in tv ratings and they WENT HEAD TO HEAD WITH THE NEWS. So this disproves your false claim about Dynamite's viewership being low because people would rather watch the news. Dynamite just isn't good and tv ratings reflect that.

Networks will still cancel shows if the tv ratings get low.They don't care about the pathetic excuse of COVID 19 news but of course this won't stop the fanboys from making up excuses about the horrible tv ratings.
[/QUOTE]

im not one for comparisons but can I ask you what you feel makes Smackdown good and dynamite not good?


----------



## Britz94xD

optikk sucks said:


> sports-based does not draw. only smarks think that. _who wants to watch a fake sport_? not me


Tony Khan and the 1.4 million people who tuned into the debut episode expecting that, (according to The Wood).



imthegame19 said:


> He wants people to believe it's real and we are beyond that point. Which is why he's out of touch and doesn't realize you need to other things to entertain.


I think Cornette's philosophy is (paraphrasing Dusty) "people know wrestling isn't real but I can make them believe I'm real.". If Corny goes on Dynamite and cuts a promo on the Young Bucks & Kenny Olivier and says "Fk you guys, I hate everything you stand for, I want you to die and I'll aide any team that shares my unquenchable desire to destroy you". Audiences would buy it = $$$

But yeah I agree with you, the variety of the comedy gimmicks is cool as long as it doesn't mix with the serious stuff.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> Except Smackdown and several other shows saw increases in tv ratings and they WENT HEAD TO HEAD WITH THE NEWS. So this disproves your false claim about Dynamite's viewership being low because people would rather watch the news. Dynamite just isn't good and tv ratings reflect that.
> 
> Networks will still cancel shows if the tv ratings get low.They don't care about the pathetic excuse of COVID 19 news but of course this won't stop the fanboys from making up excuses about the horrible tv ratings.


im not one for comparisons but can I ask you what you feel makes Smackdown good and dynamite not good?
[/QUOTE]

What Im saying is to blame the low tv ratings on the news when 1. They had low tv ratings before COVID 19 so thats not an excuse. 2. Smackdown and other shows saw INCREASES in their tv ratings and THEY RAN HEAD TO HEAD WITH COVID 19 NEWS AND STILL SAW INCREASES IN TV RATINGS. So Dynamite has no excuses whatsoever of why their tv ratings dropped for the past 2 weeks other than the shows just aren't good like the iwc claim that they are.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Britz94xD said:


> Tony Khan and the 1.4 million people who tuned into the debut episode expecting that, (according to The Wood).
> 
> 
> 
> I think Cornette's philosophy is (paraphrasing Dusty) "people know wrestling isn't real but I can make them believe I'm real.". If Corny goes on Dynamite and cuts a promo on the Young Bucks & Kenny Olivier and says "Fk you guys, I hate everything you stand for, I want you to die and I'll aide any team that shares my unquenchable desire to destroy you". Audiences would buy it = $$$
> 
> But yeah I agree with you, the variety of the comedy gimmicks is cool as long as it doesn't mix with the serious stuff.


People expected Punk to turn up. Plus the excitement of a new wrestling show. Nothing to do with what was promised. The idea that athleticism draws has been proven wrong by WWE. Their push towards “pure wrestling” and listening to the minority has resulted in their slump


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> im not one for comparisons but can I ask you what you feel makes Smackdown good and dynamite not good?


What Im saying is to blame the low tv ratings on the news when 1. They had low tv ratings before COVID 19 so thats not an excuse. 2. Smackdown and other shows saw INCREASES in their tv ratings and THEY RAN HEAD TO HEAD WITH COVID 19 NEWS AND STILL SAW INCREASES IN TV RATINGS. So Dynamite has no excuses whatsoever of why their tv ratings dropped for the past 2 weeks other than the shows just aren't good like the iwc claim that they are.
[/QUOTE]

I think there is a difference between an excuse and a reason.

personally (I am in the uk) I haven’t been watching aew much because empty arena shows do nothing for me, however the bits I’ve watched have been ok, the wwe raw and smack downs I have found unbearable, WrestleMania was ok.

I think comparing aew with raw and Smackdown is unfair, both of those have brand recognition for a start, if you mention wrestling to non wrestling fans they all know wwe, no ones heard of anyone else. Aew clearly have about 600k hardcore fans, some of which maybe watch wwe too, but they have 400k who drift in and out, and certainly aren’t interested in empty arena shows. Both aew and wwe are down to their hardcore right now.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> What Im saying is to blame the low tv ratings on the news when 1. They had low tv ratings before COVID 19 so thats not an excuse. 2. Smackdown and other shows saw INCREASES in their tv ratings and THEY RAN HEAD TO HEAD WITH COVID 19 NEWS AND STILL SAW INCREASES IN TV RATINGS. So Dynamite has no excuses whatsoever of why their tv ratings dropped for the past 2 weeks other than the shows just aren't good like the iwc claim that they are.


I think there is a difference between an excuse and a reason.

personally (I am in the uk) I haven’t been watching aew much because empty arena shows do nothing for me, however the bits I’ve watched have been ok, the wwe raw and smack downs I have found unbearable, WrestleMania was ok.

I think comparing aew with raw and Smackdown is unfair, both of those have brand recognition for a start, if you mention wrestling to non wrestling fans they all know wwe, no ones heard of anyone else. Aew clearly have about 600k hardcore fans, some of which maybe watch wwe too, but they have 400k who drift in and out, and certainly aren’t interested in empty arena shows. Both aew and wwe are down to their hardcore right now.
[/QUOTE]

You're right that theres a difference between an excuse and a reason but this is an excuse because all the other shows saw increases in their tv ratings and they went head to head with the news as well. So the news is a non factor.

WWE built up their brand to where when someone mentions wrestling they think WWE or if someone asks them to name a wrestler they name a WWE guy and Vince Mcmahon built WWE's brand up to where its a known worldwide company by appealling to casuals. AEW has only hardcore fans watching I agree on that because thats why they have low tv ratings (700-900,000 viewers). WWE still has casuals and thats why they still get 2.2-2.6 million viewers.

But they were still getting 800-900,000 viewers when they started these empty arena shows and the viewership dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee's debuts. I think they drove those 200,000+ viewers away with the 2 ex WWE guys debuting on the same show. I think those viewers left after they saw Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debut because they see AEW as a WWE retirement home and they don't want to see that so they tuned out.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> I think there is a difference between an excuse and a reason.
> 
> personally (I am in the uk) I haven’t been watching aew much because empty arena shows do nothing for me, however the bits I’ve watched have been ok, the wwe raw and smack downs I have found unbearable, WrestleMania was ok.
> 
> I think comparing aew with raw and Smackdown is unfair, both of those have brand recognition for a start, if you mention wrestling to non wrestling fans they all know wwe, no ones heard of anyone else. Aew clearly have about 600k hardcore fans, some of which maybe watch wwe too, but they have 400k who drift in and out, and certainly aren’t interested in empty arena shows. Both aew and wwe are down to their hardcore right now.


You're right that theres a difference between an excuse and a reason but this is an excuse because all the other shows saw increases in their tv ratings and they went head to head with the news as well. So the news is a non factor.

WWE built up their brand to where when someone mentions wrestling they think WWE or if someone asks them to name a wrestler they name a WWE guy and Vince Mcmahon built WWE's brand up to where its a known worldwide company by appealling to casuals. AEW has only hardcore fans watching I agree on that because thats why they have low tv ratings (700-900,000 viewers). WWE still has casuals and thats why they still get 2.2-2.6 million viewers.

But they were still getting 800-900,000 viewers when they started these empty arena shows and the viewership dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee's debuts. I think they drove those 200,000+ viewers away with the 2 ex WWE guys debuting on the same show. I think those viewers left after they saw Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debut because they see AEW as a WWE retirement home and they don't want to see that so they tuned out.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree on the reasons the fans tuned out. I’m not a Matt hardy Fan but you are definitely overthinking it, I think Casual fans just aren’t invested enough in a new company yet to stay loyal when shows are in an empty arena.

WWE is a different kettle of fish. They’ve got fans who will watch whatever, I mean they’ve been putting out shit for years and still getting over 2 million viewers, I’ve no idea how that amount of people can watch it. It’s unbearable to watch.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> You're right that theres a difference between an excuse and a reason but this is an excuse because all the other shows saw increases in their tv ratings and they went head to head with the news as well. So the news is a non factor.
> 
> WWE built up their brand to where when someone mentions wrestling they think WWE or if someone asks them to name a wrestler they name a WWE guy and Vince Mcmahon built WWE's brand up to where its a known worldwide company by appealling to casuals. AEW has only hardcore fans watching I agree on that because thats why they have low tv ratings (700-900,000 viewers). WWE still has casuals and thats why they still get 2.2-2.6 million viewers.
> 
> But they were still getting 800-900,000 viewers when they started these empty arena shows and the viewership dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee's debuts. I think they drove those 200,000+ viewers away with the 2 ex WWE guys debuting on the same show. I think those viewers left after they saw Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debut because they see AEW as a WWE retirement home and they don't want to see that so they tuned out.


I disagree on the reasons the fans tuned out. I’m not a Matt hardy Fan but you are definitely overthinking it, I think Casual fans just aren’t invested enough in a new company yet to stay loyal when shows are in an empty arena.

WWE is a different kettle of fish. They’ve got fans who will watch whatever, I mean they’ve been putting out shit for years and still getting over 2 million viewers, I’ve no idea how that amount of people can watch it. It’s unbearable to watch.
[/QUOTE]

But heres the problems I have with that 1. AEW has no casuals watching its all hardcore fans watching. 2. They were getting 800-900,000 viewers with empty arena shows. 3. The viewership dropped right after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted.

So since their viewership was still stagnating even when they were doing empty arena shows but instantly dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted means that my theory holds some weight. I think Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee did do some damage when they debuted on Dynamite.

Raw and Smackdown's tv ratings has increased despite doing empty arena shows so I don't think empty arena shows are why Dynamite's tv ratings dropped.

I think the drop in Dynamite's tv ratings are a combination of AEW being seen as a WWE retirement home where the ex WWE guys go where they go to try and stick it to WWE (not to mention its guys that WWE are done with and wants nothing to do with) and Dynamite just being a bad show.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> I disagree on the reasons the fans tuned out. I’m not a Matt hardy Fan but you are definitely overthinking it, I think Casual fans just aren’t invested enough in a new company yet to stay loyal when shows are in an empty arena.
> 
> WWE is a different kettle of fish. They’ve got fans who will watch whatever, I mean they’ve been putting out shit for years and still getting over 2 million viewers, I’ve no idea how that amount of people can watch it. It’s unbearable to watch.


But heres the problems I have with that 1. AEW has no casuals watching its all hardcore fans watching. 2. They were getting 800-900,000 viewers with empty arena shows. 3. The viewership dropped right after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted.

So since their viewership was still stagnating even when they were doing empty arena shows but instantly dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted means that my theory holds some weight. I think Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee did do some damage when they debuted on Dynamite.

Raw and Smackdown's tv ratings has increased despite doing empty arena shows so I don't think empty arena shows are why Dynamite's tv ratings dropped.

I think the drop in Dynamite's tv ratings are a combination of AEW being seen as a WWE retirement home where the ex WWE guys go where they go to try and stick it to WWE (not to mention its guys that WWE are done with and wants nothing to do with) and Dynamite just being a bad show.
[/QUOTE]

why do think raw and Smackdown increased?

you don’t sound reasonable with your arguments, I could be wrong but you just come across as an aew hater, I don’t understand if it’s so bad why waste so much energy talking about it, I tend to just ignore things I don’t like.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I’d like to also add that the first week of aew empty arena shows there was still intrigue to how they would go down, the viewers probably saw the empty arena and thought it wasn’t for them, also there are a lot of wrestlers not on the show.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> But heres the problems I have with that 1. AEW has no casuals watching its all hardcore fans watching. 2. They were getting 800-900,000 viewers with empty arena shows. 3. The viewership dropped right after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted.
> 
> So since their viewership was still stagnating even when they were doing empty arena shows but instantly dropped after Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee debuted means that my theory holds some weight. I think Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee did do some damage when they debuted on Dynamite.
> 
> Raw and Smackdown's tv ratings has increased despite doing empty arena shows so I don't think empty arena shows are why Dynamite's tv ratings dropped.
> 
> I think the drop in Dynamite's tv ratings are a combination of AEW being seen as a WWE retirement home where the ex WWE guys go where they go to try and stick it to WWE (not to mention its guys that WWE are done with and wants nothing to do with) and Dynamite just being a bad show.


why do think raw and Smackdown increased?


[/QUOTE]

I don't know why they've increased but they've found a way to bounce back and increase viewership.



you don’t sound reasonable with your arguments, I could be wrong but you just come across as an aew hater, I don’t understand if it’s so bad why waste so much energy talking about it, I tend to just ignore things I don’t like.
[/QUOTE]

No you don't sound like a reasonble person with your arguments. I gave a theory as to why their tv rating dropped the past 2 weeks and it might be because of Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee and I gave facts to support it because the tv ratings dropped after their debuts. I comment because its an open forum. The fact of the matter is Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee is one of the reasons why the tv ratings has dropped and the other one is that Dynamite just isn't good.

You need to accept criticisms.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> I’d like to also add that the first week of aew empty arena shows there was still intrigue to how they would go down, the viewers probably saw the empty arena and thought it wasn’t for them, also there are a lot of wrestlers not on the show.


Which is my point that they still had the stagnant viewership numbers (800-900,000 viewers) when they first started doing empty arena shows but the viewershiph as dropped since Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee's debuts. Which this brings me to my point of the viewership dropping because Dynamite isn't good and viewers tuned out after Hardy and Lee's debuts because they see AEW as a WWE retirement home where bitter ex WWE guys go when WWE's done with them. Add in the fact that Raw, Smackdown, and other tv shows all saw big increases in viewership despite the news.


----------



## imthegame19

WWE did 2.6 for go home Raw before Mania. Then they did 2.9 for Raw after Mania last year. They did 1.9 and 2.1 this year for those shows. Ratings for both Raw and AEW were good first week of empty arena wrestling.

Guess what fans realized empty arena wrestling isnt as good and both shows dont have access to full rosters. So ratings dropped it's as simple as that. Networks are just happy they have new shows to put on and fans should be happy they are getting new shows still. Even if the shows are much weaker then they were. So ratings and all that crap is on hold right now. Anyone wanting to make anything more of it then that. Well you are a joke. End of story.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Raw did 1.9 million last week and did 2.1 million this week which is an increase in viewership so no fans didn't realize that empty arena shows don't work. Smackdown even saw an increase in viewership so your take @imthegame19 is plain idiotic but its not surprising coming from you.👉Not to mention Raw and Smackdown saw these viewership increases WHILE GOING HEAD TO HEAD WITH COVID 19 NEWS👈.

Tv ratings still matter now and will always matter since they're on tv so no ratings aren't on hold. If tv ratings for Dynamite or any show on tv gets low enough for a network that network will cancel that show with no if, ands, or buts about it. But you are a clown. End of story.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> No


Yes, it would. Shit would make sense and would be based around actual pro-wrestling techniques that are not only tried and true in pro-wrestling, but film, sports, combat sports and politics. You’d get more stuff like Cody vs. Dustin, MJF talking shit and women who look like wrestlers having matches that look like wrestling matches.

I guarantee you, 100%, it would be infinitely better and the ratings would respond. Dutch got TNA — fucking TNA — an AEW-sized PPV buyrate. 



imthegame19 said:


> Yeah ignore the trolls talking about ratings drops right now. If they weren't trolling or had common sense. Saying oh Raw had smaller drop then AEW. Seriously its go home for Mania of course they would lol. Only someone with agenda would say something like that. If you arent a hater or troll they would understand all this ratings and number stuff is on pause.
> 
> When half the roster can't be on the show. Including guys like Adam Page, MJF, Young Bucks, Pac, Lucha Bros and after next week Moxley won't be seen in the arena. Same goes with top new addition in Matt Hardy. While they can't do a lot of matches and storylines that they really wanna do.
> 
> 
> They basically doing their title match next week. That they set up the last few weeks. But the rest of these shows are gonna be random matches and this TNT tournament.
> 
> 
> So the ratings aren't going to be good and that's OK. As long they keep doing shows they keep getting paid from TNT. Not to mention they are saving shit load of money for production cost.
> 
> 
> While at this point TNT is likely thrilled to even have AEW still going. When you consider NBA is done. So even if AEW ratings end up 500,000 that's still fine. Because TNT knows what's going on. They just expect them to rebound once things get back to normal.
> 
> 
> That said it won't stop the usual suspects for trying to use this as opportunity to bring back doom and gloom scenarios. Or say see told you the show shows and make claims people don't wanna really watch the news. Even though ratings show that's what people are mostly watching every night lol. So ignore these people or just laugh at them like I do lol.


The consequences of ratings drops are not important right now. A lot of TV executives are probably sitting around twiddling their thumbs at work like everyone else. The consequences start when AEW is down to 400k and can’t make more fans because the show has been exposed and no one takes any of it seriously. You can’t just wave a magic wand and make people come back and give a shit once they’ve realised they don’t.



imthegame19 said:


> Who says they need to be brought to 2 million people this year? Or once the world gets back to normal. They can start averaging around 900,000 viewers a week and grow from their with all the new talent they are adding.
> 
> 
> AEW not making 250 million a year like WWE is. They are making around 45 million a year plus ad revenue. They are paid to do the ratings they are doing. As they grow over the next few years. Thats when you hope to grow to that level on next tv deal.
> 
> It's going to take longer then six months of tv to get over new talent and your company. Plus let's be honest this virus stuff came at a terrible time.
> 
> 
> They just came off a PPV that did very well. The ratings were doing more consistent. With three quality free agent additions in Hardy, Archer and Lee joining the show. The New Jersey show was going to be a million dollar gate for them. With a big blood and guts match potentially leading to over million viewers.
> 
> 
> Now things all went to shit and everything is on pause. Of course WWE had Mania how they wanted it ruined. So AEW can't complain too much. But things were looking strong and like the company was going to start to grow. Now we're gonna have to wait this out. Then see if they can get their momentum back when this is all done.


There is no way to guarantee that you can get fans back once this thing normalizes. This is blue sky thinking. People aren’t suddenly going to say “Oh, that shitty wrestling show is now in front of people — I’ll watch again!” It could take a giant relaunch campaign and a whole different show to get people back, and they’re not capable of that.

They only have $45 million because their show really didn’t capture imaginations like people hoped it would. AEW fanboys constantly use the hole they dig themselves as justification for them potentially drowning when it rains.

It doesn’t take six months to build a star. Not really. Some stars take longer, but you can get something over in about six weeks. Nitro got over Raw almost instantly. This is just another mantra to make their inability to do something seem like the natural order.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> WWE did 2.6 for go home Raw before Mania. Then they did 2.9 for Raw after Mania last year. They did 1.9 and 2.1 this year for those shows. Ratings for both Raw and AEW were good first week of empty arena wrestling.
> 
> Guess what fans realized empty arena wrestling isnt as good and both shows dont have access to full rosters. So ratings dropped it's as simple as that. Networks are just happy they have new shows to put on and fans should be happy they are getting new shows still. Even if the shows are much weaker then they were. So ratings and all that crap is on hold right now. Anyone wanting to make anything more of it then that. Well you are a joke. End of story.


I don't think your first paragraph proves that empty arena shows are bad. It proves that WWE has failed massively over the years in generating interest. Not only has their viewership gone down significantly over the years, but the vast majority of those 1.9 million who are still left only leave the TV on in the background out of habit. There is literally 0% chance that there more than 100,000 brain dead individuals who actually actively watch WWE programs weekly. 

As far as AEW, the empty arena wasn't really the driving factor in their viewership decline. What I said about WWE above applies to a lot of Dynamite segments, too. They just weren't very good, and so the viewership went down accordingly.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> I don't think your first paragraph proves that empty arena shows are bad. It proves that WWE has failed massively over the years in generating interest. Not only has their viewership gone down significantly over the years, but the vast majority of those 1.9 million who are still left only leave the TV on in the background out of habit. There is literally 0% chance that there more than 100,000 brain dead individuals who actually actively watch WWE programs weekly.
> 
> As far as AEW, the empty arena wasn't really the driving factor in their viewership decline. What I said about WWE above applies to a lot of Dynamite segments, too. They just weren't very good, and so the viewership went down accordingly.


Empty arena plays big part of it but yes it's not all of it. When ratings drop from 932 to 685 in two weeks. Well theres a big reason for it. Empty arena is big reason. But so is not having their full roster available. Along with not being able to do the matches they wanna do.


If everything was normal and they had big Blood and Guts match. There's no way we would have saw these type of drops in ratings. Instead last week we got bunch of filler or squash matches. Outside of next week title match with Moxley/Hager.


All of these shows will be filler or squash matches besides the one tournament match per week. So combo of not being able to do your best stuff. Not having full roster available or crowd reacting to stuff to make it better for people at home watching. Well the product is just mediocre on what it should be and ratings will suffer.

But there's nothing AEW can do about it really. It's the time we live in now. They are doing their best to keep the show going and be responsible to the safety of their talent. So it is what it is and as fans we should be smart enough to know why. The shows aren't going to he as good and ratings are gonna be down. 


So fans just need to be grateful and watch it for what it is and forget all this business stuff. Since all business are struggling and dropping off due to this virus. When this over hopefully AEW has a plan to come back hot with some awesome cool stuff and get their product hot again. Until then this is what it is and last week rating 650-700s range might he the norm for a while.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> why do think raw and Smackdown increased?


I don't know why they've increased but they've found a way to bounce back and increase viewership.



you don’t sound reasonable with your arguments, I could be wrong but you just come across as an aew hater, I don’t understand if it’s so bad why waste so much energy talking about it, I tend to just ignore things I don’t like.
[/QUOTE]

No you don't sound like a reasonble person with your arguments. I gave a theory as to why their tv rating dropped the past 2 weeks and it might be because of Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee and I gave facts to support it because the tv ratings dropped after their debuts. I comment because its an open forum. The fact of the matter is Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee is one of the reasons why the tv ratings has dropped and the other one is that Dynamite just isn't good.

You need to accept criticisms.
[/QUOTE]

ive no issues accepting criticisms, there are things I like and don’t like about AEW..... however if you are someone who only wants to talk about thbead, never mention anything good, and come across just argumentative you are always going to be met with negative responses.

Yourself and the wood just come across like you are trying to wind people up, maybe it’d be cool if once in a while you thought to yourself “i don’t agree with that but am I really adding anything constructive to the discussion?”

What do you two hope to achieve from your attitudes on this thread? The best thing everyone could do is agree with everything you both say, you would soon dissapear if people (myself included) stopped feeding you with arguments.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> I don't know why they've increased but they've found a way to bounce back and increase viewership.
> 
> 
> 
> you don’t sound reasonable with your arguments, I could be wrong but you just come across as an aew hater, I don’t understand if it’s so bad why waste so much energy talking about it, I tend to just ignore things I don’t like.


No you don't sound like a reasonble person with your arguments. I gave a theory as to why their tv rating dropped the past 2 weeks and it might be because of Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee and I gave facts to support it because the tv ratings dropped after their debuts. I comment because its an open forum. The fact of the matter is Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee is one of the reasons why the tv ratings has dropped and the other one is that Dynamite just isn't good.

You need to accept criticisms.
[/QUOTE]

ive no issues accepting criticisms, there are things I like and don’t like about AEW..... however if you are someone who only wants to talk about thbead, never mention anything good, and come across just argumentative you are always going to be met with negative responses.

Yourself and the wood just come across like you are trying to wind people up, maybe it’d be cool if once in a while you thought to yourself “i don’t agree with that but am I really adding anything constructive to the discussion?”

What do you two hope to achieve from your attitudes on this thread? The best thing everyone could do is agree with everything you both say, you would soon dissapear if people (myself included) stopped feeding you with arguments.
[/QUOTE]

Obviously you can't accept any criticism by your responses. You're getting mad over a company that you don't even own getting criticized for things that they shouldn't be doing.

You and @imwithgame19 come across as AEW fanboys that only accept positive things said about the company. Maybe it'd be good for you to say "Hey I may not like what they say but I get where they're coming from with their criticisms"?

What do you hope to achieve with your fanboy attitudes? The thing both of you want is for people (myself included) to agree with your nonsensical takes and since we're not now y'all are mad. You can't debunk anything that I've said so there is no feed me with arguments.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> No you don't sound like a reasonble person with your arguments. I gave a theory as to why their tv rating dropped the past 2 weeks and it might be because of Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee and I gave facts to support it because the tv ratings dropped after their debuts. I comment because its an open forum. The fact of the matter is Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee is one of the reasons why the tv ratings has dropped and the other one is that Dynamite just isn't good.
> 
> You need to accept criticisms.


ive no issues accepting criticisms, there are things I like and don’t like about AEW..... however if you are someone who only wants to talk about thbead, never mention anything good, and come across just argumentative you are always going to be met with negative responses.

Yourself and the wood just come across like you are trying to wind people up, maybe it’d be cool if once in a while you thought to yourself “i don’t agree with that but am I really adding anything constructive to the discussion?”

What do you two hope to achieve from your attitudes on this thread? The best thing everyone could do is agree with everything you both say, you would soon dissapear if people (myself included) stopped feeding you with arguments.
[/QUOTE]

Obviously you can't accept any criticism by your responses. You're getting mad over a company that you don't even own getting criticized for things that they shouldn't be doing.

You and @imwithgame19 come across as AEW fanboys that only accept positive things said about the company. Maybe it'd be good for you to say "Hey I may not like what they say but I get where they're coming from with their criticisms"?

What do you hope to achieve with your fanboy attitudes? The thing both of you want is for people (myself included) to agree with your nonsensical takes and since we're not now y'all are mad. You can't debunk anything that I've said so there is no feed me with arguments.
[/QUOTE]

certainly not a fanboy I am a casual viewer.

you can’t debunk anything I have said either, all you’ve done is offer your opinion on why ratings went down as have I.

im not really a massive fan of either aew or wwe right now, neither fully satisfies me, however unlike you I’d like to see both companies be successful.

you and the wood however clearly want aew to fail, because you clearly have that type of personality that would rather be right than to actually enjoy it.

all very pathetic and childish.


----------



## The Wood

Raw back up to 2.1. Talk about it being post-Mania all you want — you can’t say that and also say that wrestling is the last thing on people’s minds. Also, AEW should really get a boost from Mania season too, if we’re being honest. It’s like how the indies get to piggy-back off WrestleMania. There are more eyeballs on the wrestling world this week. Let’s see how they do.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Raw back up to 2.1. Talk about it being post-Mania all you want — you can’t say that and also say that wrestling is the last thing on people’s minds. Also, AEW should really get a boost from Mania season too, if we’re being honest. It’s like how the indies get to piggy-back off WrestleMania. There are more eyeballs on the wrestling world this week. Let’s see how they do.


Judging by my own standard as a casual WWE fan, I don’t watch any Wwe but follow results every week, I always tune in to watch the build up to WrestleMania, WrestleMania and the raw after then I normally go back to normal, these were the days before AEW.

another thing I don’t see taken into account much is how little people watch TV live these days, I’m in the uk but most tv shows I watch are on catch up, the only things I watch live are football or Sports in general, and I wouldn’t class wrestling as a sport, it’s not something you need to watch live, id imagine both WWE and AEW have a lot of viewers who watch on catch up services.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> ive no issues accepting criticisms, there are things I like and don’t like about AEW..... however if you are someone who only wants to talk about thbead, never mention anything good, and come across just argumentative you are always going to be met with negative responses.
> 
> Yourself and the wood just come across like you are trying to wind people up, maybe it’d be cool if once in a while you thought to yourself “i don’t agree with that but am I really adding anything constructive to the discussion?”
> 
> What do you two hope to achieve from your attitudes on this thread? The best thing everyone could do is agree with everything you both say, you would soon dissapear if people (myself included) stopped feeding you with arguments.


Obviously you can't accept any criticism by your responses. You're getting mad over a company that you don't even own getting criticized for things that they shouldn't be doing.

You and @imwiththegame19 come across as AEW fanboys that only accept positive things said about the company. Maybe it'd be good for you to say "Hey I may not like what they say but I get where they're coming from with their criticisms"?

What do you hope to achieve with your fanboy attitudes? The thing both of you want is for people (myself included) to agree with your nonsensical takes and since we're not now y'all are mad. You can't debunk anything that I've said so there is no feed me with arguments.
[/QUOTE]

certainly not a fanboy I am a casual viewer.


[/QUOTE]

Well you sounded like one earlier so thats why I called you one.


you can’t debunk anything I have said either, all you’ve done is offer your opinion on why ratings went down as have I.

im not really a massive fan of either aew or wwe right now, neither fully satisfies me, however unlike you I’d like to see both companies be successful.


[[/QUOTE

🤣 If you would have read my other comments in the thread about who would you like to see in AEW? I clearly explained that they can simply do what I mpact Wrestling is doing which is build up their own stars and NOT keep signing ex WWE guys. Thats how they'll succeed in the long run but of course you'll ignore that because you're one of those guys that likes to rant by cherry picking comments by people that you don't like. 👉I offered a theory (an opinion) as to why their tv ratings are tanking and I backed it up with evidence which is something you haven't done👈.


you and the wood however clearly want aew to fail, because you clearly have that type of personality that would rather be right than to actually enjoy it.

all very pathetic and childish.
[/QUOTE]

Offering valid criticisms has nothing to do with wanting them to fail it has to do with their horrible tv ratings which shows what they're doing isn't working. So you're fanboying way to hard and getting mad at criticisms over a company that you don't even own and thats sad.

So grow up.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> Obviously you can't accept any criticism by your responses. You're getting mad over a company that you don't even own getting criticized for things that they shouldn't be doing.
> 
> You and @imwithgame19 come across as AEW fanboys that only accept positive things said about the company. Maybe it'd be good for you to say "Hey I may not like what they say but I get where they're coming from with their criticisms"?
> 
> What do you hope to achieve with your fanboy attitudes? The thing both of you want is for people (myself included) to agree with your nonsensical takes and since we're not now y'all are mad. You can't debunk anything that I've said so there is no feed me with arguments.


certainly not a fanboy I am a casual viewer.


[/QUOTE]

Well you sounded like one earlier so thats why I called you one.


you can’t debunk anything I have said either, all you’ve done is offer your opinion on why ratings went down as have I.

im not really a massive fan of either aew or wwe right now, neither fully satisfies me, however unlike you I’d like to see both companies be successful.


[[/QUOTE

🤣 If you would have read my other comments in the thread about who would you like to see in AEW? I clearly explained that they can simply do what I mpact Wrestling is doing which is build up their own stars and NOT keep signing ex WWE guys. Thats how they'll succeed in the long run but of course you'll ignore that because you're one of those guys that likes to rant by cherry picking comments by people that you don't like. 👉I offered a theory (an opinion) as to why their tv ratings are tanking and I backed it up with evidence which is something you haven't done👈.


you and the wood however clearly want aew to fail, because you clearly have that type of personality that would rather be right than to actually enjoy it.

all very pathetic and childish.
[/QUOTE]

Offering valid criticisms has nothing to do with wanting them to fail it has to do with their horrible tv ratings which shows what they're doing isn't working. So you're fanboying way to hard and getting mad at criticisms over a company that you don't even own and thats sad.

So grow up.
[/QUOTE]

why do you keep calling me a fanboy when I’ve explained to you that I’m a casual fan?
do you act this way in real life? If so what the general response to your personality?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> certainly not a fanboy I am a casual viewer.


Well you sounded like one earlier so thats why I called you one.


you can’t debunk anything I have said either, all you’ve done is offer your opinion on why ratings went down as have I.

im not really a massive fan of either aew or wwe right now, neither fully satisfies me, however unlike you I’d like to see both companies be successful.


[[/QUOTE

🤣 If you would have read my other comments in the thread about who would you like to see in AEW? I clearly explained that they can simply do what I mpact Wrestling is doing which is build up their own stars and NOT keep signing ex WWE guys. Thats how they'll succeed in the long run but of course you'll ignore that because you're one of those guys that likes to rant by cherry picking comments by people that you don't like. 👉I offered a theory (an opinion) as to why their tv ratings are tanking and I backed it up with evidence which is something you haven't done👈.


you and the wood however clearly want aew to fail, because you clearly have that type of personality that would rather be right than to actually enjoy it.

all very pathetic and childish.
[/QUOTE]

Offering valid criticisms has nothing to do with wanting them to fail it has to do with their horrible tv ratings which shows what they're doing isn't working. So you're fanboying way to hard and getting mad at criticisms over a company that you don't even own and thats sad.

So grow up.
[/QUOTE]

why do you keep calling me a fanboy when I’ve explained to you that I’m a casual fan?
do you act this way in real life? If so what the general response to your personality?
[/QUOTE]

You started it when you called me sad and pathetic but you can't handle it when I call you something though. You're acting like a fanboy and yet you're claiming not to be one thats pretty strange there. Is this the way you act in real life? And if this is your personality how does the people respond to it?


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Judging by my own standard as a casual WWE fan, I don’t watch any Wwe but follow results every week, I always tune in to watch the build up to WrestleMania, WrestleMania and the raw after then I normally go back to normal, these were the days before AEW.
> 
> another thing I don’t see taken into account much is how little people watch TV live these days, I’m in the uk but most tv shows I watch are on catch up, the only things I watch live are football or Sports in general, and I wouldn’t class wrestling as a sport, it’s not something you need to watch live, id imagine both WWE and AEW have a lot of viewers who watch on catch up services.


Yes, they do have lots that watch on catch-up services. That's not where they're getting their money from though. They're getting their money from TV rights which are going to be primarily based on how compelling they are as live entertainment.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Well apart from being lumped in with them at every opportunity by some people, I was mostly just defending the people who do criticize this company. There's very few trolls on here and if you have conviction, you'd respond to them or at least tag them.
> 
> Ignoring other opinions is weak. It creates an echo chamber and gives you the impression that everyone agrees with your opinion. First step of identifying trolls as what they are is by actually identifying them. Go ahead.


Lol I'm trying really hard to take you seriously - but what exactly is your point here? Ignoring trolls who show up on a regular basis and express nothing but negatives towards a show they clearly make time to watch every week is weak? 

Constructive criticism is welcomed, I do it myself. 

At this point you've essentially just admitted to being a troll - I have no idea who you are but you felt singled out when I was discussing trolls. 

To be fair to you there are plenty of dick riders on the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't take either seriously.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> Lol I'm trying really hard to take you seriously - but what exactly is your point here? Ignoring trolls who show up on a regular basis and express nothing but negatives towards a show they clearly make time to watch every week is weak?
> 
> Constructive criticism is welcomed, I do it myself.
> 
> At this point you've essentially just admitted to being a troll - I have no idea who you are but you felt singled out when I was discussing trolls.
> 
> To be fair to you there are plenty of dick riders on the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't take either seriously.


Admitted to being a troll? No, I simply said I am often called a troll by people who have no reading comprehension and lack an understanding of context. Until you tag someone you believe is a troll, you're the joke. If you're going to call out trolls at least have the backbone to tag them, otherwise you're just being vague and adding nothing to the forum.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Admitted to being a troll? No, I simply said I am often called a troll by people who have no reading comprehension and lack an understanding of context. Until you tag someone you believe is a troll, you're the joke. If you're going to call out trolls at least have the backbone to tag them, otherwise you're just being vague and adding nothing to the forum.


You want me to call out each and every individual member on this forum who(in my view) has an overwhelmingly negative view? Evidently I didn't to. I apologize I'm not able to recollect every poster I come across on these forums - thankfully you've identified yourself and made things easy for me. 

Evidently you have reading comprehension issues of your own as I clearly called out posters on both sides of the scale. 

You becoming more and more emotional with each response isn't helping your case kiddo. 

We all lose debates - check your ego and take it in stride.


----------



## Pippen94

Not sure who will take honors this week; aew have limited roster while other brand was coming off WM with some good match ups. 
Can't wait for return of live crowds.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> You want me to call out each and every individual member on this forum who(in my view) has an overwhelmingly negative view? Evidently I didn't to. I apologize I'm not able to recollect every poster I come across on these forums - thankfully you've identified yourself and made things easy for me.
> 
> Evidently you have reading comprehension issues of your own as I clearly called out posters on both sides of the scale.
> 
> You becoming more and more emotional with each response isn't helping your case kiddo.
> 
> We all lose debates - check your ego and take it in stride.


Asking you to respond to whoever you were initially talking about isn't emotional, champ. This wasn't a debate, it was you calling people out and then turning on the guy who asked you to tag them. I also didn't say anything about which side of the trolls you're calling out, apart from stating which side I'm often lumped with. You're being irrational and completely exaggerating what I've asked of you. It was a pretty simple request really. Tag them, any of them. Go on, I dare you, kiddo.


----------



## bdon

@The Wood lol


----------



## PavelGaborik

Pippen94 said:


> Not sure who will take honors this week; aew have limited roster while other brand was coming off WM with some good match ups.
> Can't wait for return of live crowds.


AEW should still win again this week. Both shows were okay, but they've won every show to date this year ratings wise. RAW ratings were...let's just say not great. Ratings are down everywhere though to be fair. 


Cult03 said:


> Asking you to respond to whoever you were initially talking about isn't emotional, champ. This wasn't a debate, it was you calling people out and then turning on the guy who asked you to tag them. I also didn't say anything about which side of the trolls you're calling out, apart from stating which side I'm often lumped with. You're being irrational and completely exaggerating what I've asked of you. It was a pretty simple request really. Tag them, any of them. Go on, I dare you, kiddo.


I was pretty clearly speaking in general about negative individuals. I believe I made that clear.

This clearly became a debate the second you attempted to engage me in a confrontational manner. Essentially you felt singled out by me calling out trolls(or losers?) So you responded to me attempting to defend yourself.

What am I being irrational about and what have I exaggerated exactly?

@Cult03

There - now we've gotten that out of the way.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> @The Wood lol


Honestly, I think he adds a lot to the forum and has a strong knowledge on wrestling but we both get pretty wound up by people not debating us and jumping straight to insulting us or flat out making stuff up to avoid a conversation and sometimes say things to tease people or express our opinions in an authoritarian type way because we back it. Gets taken out of context in text I guess. Plus the positive things we say aren't often responded to or seen.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> I was pretty clearly speaking in general about negative individuals. I believe I made that clear.
> 
> This clearly became a debate the second you attempted to engage me in a confrontational manner. Essentially you felt singled out by me calling out trolls(or losers?) So you responded to me attempting to defend yourself.
> 
> What am I being irrational about and what have I exaggerated exactly?


Yes, and which negative individuals are you referring to? It's a very easy question to answer.

I didn't say I was singled out. I am just sick of the word troll being thrown out by AEW fans about anyone who disagrees with them or the direction of the product. It's used to kill conversation on here by sycophants who can't accept any criticism. I didn't say anything about you being weak or toxic, simply that creating an echo chamber causes those traits.

Me saying tag or respond to whoever you think is a troll instead of being vague turning into "You want me to call out each and every individual member on this forum who(in my view) has an overwhelmingly negative view?" is a gross exaggeration of what I've asked.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> @Cult03
> 
> There - now we've gotten that out of the way.


Predictable. 

You realize I wasn't calling you toxic and weak but by your own logic you've done exactly what you said I did by replying and outed yourself as weak and toxic, right? Just realized I'm arguing with someone who lives by the "whoever smelt it dealt it" line. Wonderful. Enjoy your echo chamber, kiddo.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Yes, and which negative individuals are you referring to? It's a very easy question to answer.
> 
> I didn't say I was singled out. I am just sick of the word troll being thrown out by AEW fans about anyone who disagrees with them or the direction of the product. It's used to kill conversation on here by sycophants who can't accept any criticism. I didn't say anything about you being weak or toxic, simply that creating an echo chamber causes those traits.
> 
> Me saying tag or respond to whoever you think is a troll instead of being vague turning into "You want me to call out each and every individual member on this forum who(in my view) has an overwhelmingly negative view?" is a gross exaggeration of what I've asked.


Again - what are you talking about? Are you actually reading what you're responding to? I applauded constructive criticism. I also called out both fanboys and trolls.

This is significantly more simple than you're attempting to portray it.

What exactly have you disagreed with that I've posted? Elaborate. I literally just tagged you. I'm not taking the time to go through 156 pages of posts so that I can tag each and every individual poster I deem overly negative/positive


Do you disagree that posters that ignore anything positive and focus purely on negatives - yet tune in weekly should be labeled trolls? This is quite possibly the last time I'm willing to post this without directly quoting my initial post : I approve of constructive criticism. I always have - I literally expressed that I've had negative feedback for my own constructive criticism towards AEW in the posts above.
I truly don't understand what your point is. You're coming across as a pseudo intellectual attempting to pick a debate without the ability to express himself.

I tagged you as you clearly identified as the type of poster I called out. You made that obvious. 

Do yourself a favor - Stop getting so "wound up" and learn to form a proper argument instead of debating based primarily on emotions.


You have a long way to go - Young Padawan.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Honestly, I think he adds a lot to the forum and has a strong knowledge on wrestling but we both get pretty wound up by people not debating us and jumping straight to insulting us or flat out making stuff up to avoid a conversation and sometimes say things to tease people or express our opinions in an authoritarian type way because we back it. Gets taken out of context in text I guess. Plus the positive things we say aren't often responded to or seen.


I like @The Wood. I only said his name to tweak him, ruffle his feathers. I hope he knew not to take me seriously when I tagged him.


----------



## PavelGaborik

bdon said:


> I like @The Wood. I only said his name to tweak him, ruffle his feathers. I hope he knew not to take me seriously when I tagged him.


He literally just DM'd me - He's looking for a hell in the cell match against you next week.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Predictable.
> 
> You realize I wasn't calling you toxic and weak but by your own logic you've done exactly what you said I did by replying and outed yourself as weak and toxic, right? Just realized I'm arguing with someone who lives by the "whoever smelt it dealt it" line. Wonderful. Enjoy your echo chamber, kiddo.


Yes - and you realize I wasn't calling you out as an overly negative troll - correct? You essentially included yourself in the conversation.


Go read the Brodie Lee thread for reference of individuals I was initially talking about. Posts like that are what inspired my original post. 

I still applaud you for calling yourself out and including yourself though.

You've done a great job of defending -....uh whatever your point even is.


----------



## bdon

PavelGaborik said:


> He literally just DM'd me - He's looking for a hell in the cell match against you next week.


Well, I plan to no-sell everything and stick to floppy-dippy shit. Sooo...


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> Again - what are you talking about? Are you actually reading what you're responding to? I applauded constructive criticism. I also called out both fanboys and trolls.
> 
> This is significantly more simple than you're attempting to portray it.
> 
> What exactly have you disagreed with that I've posted? Elaborate. I literally just tagged you. I'm not taking the time to go through 156 pages of posts so that I can tag each and every individual poster I seem overly negative/positive
> 
> I tagged you as you clearly identified with the former.


Nice spin. I'm replying to the literal words you're typing each time. I never said anything about going through and tagging every fucking troll. Just name the ones you were vaguely referring to. It's very simple. What I am asking is pretty simple too, yet you won't do it. I wonder why? My original response was stating the reality of your situation, about how there's no middle ground happening. Almost agreeing with you that it should be the case but it isn't. You then got bent out of shape because you obviously thought me saying toxic and weak was calling you toxic and weak when it wasn't the case. It had nothing to do with you but everything to do with AEW sycophants. Using your own logic, you're outing yourself here, right? You were just being sensitive.

I then said I'm often called a troll in here, so I was explaining why it would seem like someone was a troll when they're not. Then I asked you to identify the trolls. You then responded saying " I'm trying to take you seriously" and "you've essentially just admitted to being a troll" running with your weird and childish "oh he responded to it that means he's a troll" thing that you fabricated. I again responded asking you to tag the trolls which you completely exaggerated in a strange attempt to make my request look sooooo difficult.

This is the fun part. In an effort to not have to call anyone out you said "I was pretty clearly speaking in general about negative individuals" which makes me understand why you thought I was calling you weak. Because you lack the backbone to call out the trolls you were so critical of. 

This started as a misunderstanding and just eventually proved that you're a bit of a twat, that's all. 

TLDR; I disagree with the people in here being referred to as trolls because they're negative about product that is about 50/50 bad. That's all I was responding to and you took it as though I was insulting you when I wasn't and then tried to say I was a troll with some strange logic.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> Yes - and you realize I wasn't calling you out as an overly negative troll - correct? You essentially included yourself in the conversation.
> 
> 
> Go read the Brodie Lee thread for reference of individuals I was initially talking about. Posts like that are what inspired my original post.
> I still applaud you for calling yourself out and including yourself though.
> 
> You've done a great job of defending -....uh whatever your point even is.


Yes, weirdly enough I have said that already. I never thought you were. You seem to be under the impression that I was responding to argue with you, but I was simply adding an anecdote about why the middle ground is never met. Asking why some can't just say "yeah you're right, Stunt isn't the best option". I was agreeing with you dickhead. Then you lost your reading comprehension abilities and acted like I had called you out when I hadn't. Then you lost your backbone and became irrational by not calling out the trolls and exaggerating my request. Your lack of logic and ability to spew bullshit and act like you're avoiding the point is impossible to argue. You win, mate. Congratulations. 

Now I'm going to go tell my girlfriend that she looks fine, because her response will be more rational than yours.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Yes, weirdly enough I have said that already. I never thought you were. You seem to be under the impression that I was responding to argue with you, but I was simply adding an anecdote about why the middle ground is never met. Asking why some can't just say "yeah you're right, Stunt isn't the best option". I was agreeing with you dickhead. Then you lost your reading comprehension abilities and acted like I had called you out when I hadn't. Then you lost your backbone and became irrational by not calling out the trolls and exaggerating my request. Your lack of logic and ability to spew bullshit and act like you're avoiding the point is impossible to argue. You win, mate. Congratulations.
> 
> *Now I'm going to go tell my girlfriend that she looks fine, because her response will be more rational than yours.*


DON’T DO IT, BRO!!! Hahah


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Nice spin. I'm replying to the literal words you're typing each time. I never said anything about going through and tagging every fucking troll. Just name the ones you were vaguely referring to. It's very simple. What I am asking is pretty simple too, yet you won't do it. I wonder why? My original response was stating the reality of your situation, about how there's no middle ground happening. Almost agreeing with you that it should be the case but it isn't. You then got bent out of shape because you obviously thought me saying toxic and weak was calling you toxic and weak when it wasn't the case. It had nothing to do with you but everything to do with AEW sycophants. Using your own logic, you're outing yourself here, right? You were just being sensitive.
> 
> I then said I'm often called a troll in here, so I was explaining why it would seem like someone was a troll when they're not. Then I asked you to identify the trolls. You then responded saying " I'm trying to take you seriously" and "you've essentially just admitted to being a troll" running with your weird and childish "oh he responded to it that means he's a troll" thing that you fabricated. I again responded asking you to tag the trolls which you completely exaggerated in a strange attempt to make my request look sooooo difficult.
> 
> This is the fun part. In an effort to not have to call anyone out you said "I was pretty clearly speaking in general about negative individuals" which makes me understand why you thought I was calling you weak. Because you lack the backbone to call out the trolls you were so critical of.
> 
> This started as a misunderstanding and just eventually proved that you're a bit of a twat, that's all.
> 
> TLDR; I disagree with the people in here being referred to as trolls because they're negative about product that is about 50/50 bad. That's all I was responding to and you took it as though I was insulting you when I wasn't and then tried to say I was a troll with some strange logic.
> [/QUOTE





Cult03 said:


> Yes, weirdly enough I have said that already. I never thought you were. You seem to be under the impression that I was responding to argue with you, but I was simply adding an anecdote about why the middle ground is never met. Asking why some can't just say "yeah you're right, Stunt isn't the best option". I was agreeing with you dickhead. Then you lost your reading comprehension abilities and acted like I had called you out when I hadn't. Then you lost your backbone and became irrational by not calling out the trolls and exaggerating my request. Your lack of logic and ability to spew bullshit and act like you're avoiding the point is impossible to argue. You win, mate. Congratulations.
> 
> Now I'm going to go tell my girlfriend that she looks fine, because her response will be more rational than yours.





PavelGaborik said:


> The constant overanalyzing of both the negative and positives of this company have made this forum both unbearable and toxic (though I suppose they coincide)
> 
> Now the vast majority of members are quite positive but there is a very small yet very vocal minority who seem hell bent on criticizing every little movement the company makes. I would recommend ignoring said individuals and focusing more on individuals with more constructive criticism who also focus on the positives.
> 
> It seems the overwhelming vast majority of posters here are on one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.
> 
> A happy medium goes a long way. Realistically speaking - If an individual is showing up here to discuss AEW on a weekly basis nearly a full year after their first show and is STILL providing nothing but negative views towards their content it's probably best not to take their criticism overly seriously.
> 
> Now I'll admit I'll criticize AEW (particularly Marko Stunt and long unnecessary matches) but I also see far more positives than negatives and that is why I'm here posting on a weekly basis about both.





Cult03 said:


> Here's the problem, the vocal minority say plenty of positives but they never get noticed or spoken about. When they say something is a negative, even if it's very obvious, there is no happy medium because those AEW sycophants can not just admit that there are some things wrong with this company. This results in an argument making it seem like those people are more negative than they actually have been. AEW has been good, but it's also been terrible. Ignoring those who are critical is actually just weak. Not being able to accept or even have a conversation about criticisms is one of the most toxic traits a human can have.
> 
> How difficult is it to just say "yeah that part was pretty shit and wasn't the best option" instead of "I love that Marko Stunt is getting television time over someone else"?





Cult03 said:


> Yes, weirdly enough I have said that already. I never thought you were. You seem to be under the impression that I was responding to argue with you, but I was simply adding an anecdote about why the middle ground is never met. Asking why some can't just say "yeah you're right, Stunt isn't the best option". I was agreeing with you dickhead. Then you lost your reading comprehension abilities and acted like I had called you out when I hadn't. Then you lost your backbone and became irrational by not calling out the trolls and exaggerating my request. Your lack of logic and ability to spew bullshit and act like you're avoiding the point is impossible to argue. You win, mate. Congratulations.
> 
> Now I'm going to go tell my girlfriend that she looks fine, because her response will be more rational than yours.


It's quite blatant what the issues are with your stance - you agreed with one end of my stance (the overwhelmingly positive are a problem) yet had seemingly nothing negative to say about the individuals who tune in weekly but spew nothing but negative views.

That is essentially the issue. Ignoring irrational individuals makes you weak? Interesting. You could've added yourself as an example for why a happy medium will never be met around these forums. Why did you avoid me calling out individuals who hold an overwhelmingly positive view? Didn't fit your narrative? Quit while you're behind, little fella. I appreciate your ressiliance but at some point you have to make a point without completely fabricating things. It's over.

I see that you went back and moved the goalposts a tad regarding how this initially started.

You can resort to becoming an emotional, pathetic mess and personally insulting me while I focus on facts.

You've gone back to letting your emotions get in the way of facts. Nice to know that you have a girlfriend - Maybe I'll hit her up...clearly she's easily impressed.


You can whine and fabricate how things transpired all you like - The posts above contradict your desperate pity story. 

Go to bed.


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> It's quite blatant what the issues are with your stance - you agreed with one end of my stance (the overwhelmingly positive are a problem) yet had seemingly nothing negative to say about the individuals who tune in weekly but spew nothing but negative views.
> 
> That is essentially the issue. Ignoring irrational individuals makes you weak? Interesting. You could've added yourself as an example for why a happy medium will never be met around these forums. Why did you avoid me calling out individuals who hold an overwhelmingly positive view? Didn't fit your narrative? Quit while you're behind, little fella. I appreciate your ressiliance but at some point you have to make a point without completely fabricating things. It's over.
> 
> I see that you went back and moved the goalposts a tad regarding how this initially started.
> 
> You can resort to becoming an emotional, pathetic mess and personally insulting me while I focus on facts.
> 
> You've gone back to letting your emotions get in the way of facts. Nice to know that you have a girlfriend - Maybe I'll hit her up...clearly she's easily impressed.
> 
> 
> You can whine and fabricate how things transpired all you like - The posts above contradict your desperate pity story.
> 
> Go to bed.


Not actually calling you out in the beginning isn't moving the goal posts genius. Lets not act like calling someone a troll and kiddo isn't starting the insults either. We agree though, a middle ground would be great. Some things are bad and some things are good, why would I be a good example of why a middle ground won't be met? God damn, you're the one making shit up man. Enjoy your night


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Not actually calling you out in the beginning isn't moving the goal posts genius. Lets not act like calling someone a troll and kiddo isn't starting the insults either. We agree though, a middle ground would be great. Some things are bad and some things are good, why would I be a good example of why a middle ground won't be met? God damn, you're the one making shit up man. Enjoy your night


Again - my entire post was based on how toxic this environment is.

You're a great example because throughout this entire sequence because you've completely and miserably failed to acknowledge the fact that there are individuals on this forum who are overwhelmingly negative.

You've acknowledged the overwhelmingly positive and had no issues calling them out.

Now I'm asking you straight up, "genius" have you come across overly critical individuals on this very forum?

It's easy to say things - it's not so easy when the transcripts provide a different context.


----------



## bdon

@Cult03 has said numerous times that there are those who come across as overly negative, because they get to a point of defensiveness from such overly positive BS. Which I suspect is exactly where the overly positive viewpoints stem from as well.

So, both sides continue a never-ending cycle of pushing each other further and further from any middle ground.


----------



## PavelGaborik

bdon said:


> @Cult03 has said numerous times that there are those who come across as overly negative, because they get to a point of defensiveness from such overly positive BS. Which I suspect is exactly where the overly positive viewpoints stem from as well.
> 
> So, both sides continue a never-ending cycle of pushing each other further and further from any middle ground.


You aren't wrong.

My entire point is that there are plenty of guilty individuals on both sides. It truly was not as complex as it's been made out to be.

I understand your loyalty to your friend but he's been consistently one sided during this entire sequence. I have yet to see him acknowledge and make excuses for the individuals on the opposite end of the spectrum. 

He is exactly the problem. With toxic biased morons this place will continue to be what it is. 

I'm sure you see no issues with that though, right?


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> You aren't wrong.
> 
> My entire point is that there are plenty of guilty individuals on both sides. It truly was not as complex as it's been made out to be.
> 
> I understand your loyalty to your friend but he's been consistently one sided during this entire sequence. I have yet to see him acknowledge and make excuses for the individuals on the opposite end of the spectrum.
> 
> He is exactly the problem. With toxic biased morons this place will continue to be what it is.
> 
> I'm sure you see no issues with that though, right?


That's because the onus was never on me to prove a point, but for you to show a backbone and prove there are trolls in here. Sure, plenty of people including myself can be overly negative about the show. I don't get how we've changed from you calling out both sides, then going on a diatribe about blocking the negative and somehow that makes you an unbiased spectator, to you being asked to tag the trolls so we know who you're calling out or insulting to me needing to admit there's negative people.

Just last week I was talking about how wrestling fans can be negative, but I make sure those who I'm talking about know I'm talking about them because I'm not a massive wuss. You were being passive aggressive and when given a chance to let those who you deem to be overly negative know, you backed down. Identifying the trolls was your idea of logical and yet throughout this whole conversation you're yet to do so. So what's your point?

So if you could either identify them or admit people getting painted with the troll brush are misidentified that would be great. If not, fuck off.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> That's because the onus was never on me to prove a point, but for you to show a backbone and prove there are trolls in here. Sure, plenty of people including myself can be overly negative about the show. I don't get how we've changed from you calling out both sides, then going on a diatribe about blocking the negative and somehow that makes you an unbiased spectator, to you being asked to tag the trolls so we know who you're calling out or insulting to me needing to admit there's negative people.
> 
> Just last week I was talking about how wrestling fans can be negative, but I make sure those who I'm talking about know I'm talking about them because I'm not a massive wuss. You were being passive aggressive and when given a chance to let those who you deem to be overly negative know, you backed down. Identifying the trolls was your idea of logical and yet throughout this whole conversation you're yet to do so. So what's your point?
> 
> So if you could either identify them or admit people getting painted with the troll brush are misidentified that would be great. If not, fuck off.
> [/QUOTE/]
> 
> Aw well the good news is - you proved my point for me. You have whined and cried like a little bitch for hours upon hours now about how "mean" I was about "the big bad trolls"
> 
> The only individual who's gone on a "diatribe" throughout this sequence has certainly been you. You're unable to control you emotions because you're literally losing a debate on the internet and that's truly sad to me.
> 
> I view myself as a haply medium because I can thoroughly process individuals who are overly negative from the overly positive.
> 
> Would you not consider an individual who comes back every Wednesday for two hours and doesn't see any redeeming qualities a troll(or a moron)?
> 
> Stop trying to save face with "What I said last week" I don't care. I care about this process - that's the subject.
> 
> 
> Who backed down? I tagged you. That's what you've been whining about for hours.


----------



## Cult03

Well in that case, you're wrong because I'm not a troll. Congratulations, you played yourself.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Well in that case, you're wrong because I'm not a troll. Congratulations, you played yourself.


Fair enough. Maybe you'll learn from this experience and next time you'll acknowledge the opposite side of the issue as well.


----------



## Mike E

I just joined the forum recently and I've noticed that its basically the same ten or so guys posting over and over again, is this common? 

It's kinda hard to have conversations about the product with the same people you see all the time. I've got to know the typical posters here in the short time that I've been around with out even having a talk with them. I mean it's not necessarily a problem I guess, but seems like alot of you have made up your mind already if you like AEW or not, no matter what they do. 

I feel like arguing back and forth really doesn't do anything in the long run, we can all like different things and still respect each other. Everyone has an opinion about the product but just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way. They are trying to please a wide variety of people who all like different things and although I'm not a fan of everything AEW does, I do like most of it. When it comes to the stuff I don't like as much I can understand why they are doing it. 

For instance my wife started watching with me, she's not a fan of mat wrestling or alot of grappling. Honestly I don't think she has ever watched alot of wrestling in general. She told me that she really enjoys the funny stuff they do to break up the more serious matches and promos, she is especially fond of Orange Cassidy. I can tell that she really enjoys the exciting and high energy matches that AEW put on.


----------



## RiverFenix

NXT should win the ratings this week. AEW offered squash matches, comedy tag and a main event redux. Shida vs Britt was good, but AEW women's division needs a while to overcome the reputation as a sure channel changer. Sounds like NXT stacked it's show as well. Could we see AEW with sub-600K?


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> NXT should win the ratings this week. AEW offered squash matches, comedy tag and a main event redux. Shida vs Britt was good, but AEW women's division needs a while to overcome the reputation as a sure channel changer. Sounds like NXT stacked it's show as well. Could we see AEW with sub-600K?


They deserve it, and I hope they fucking do lose. You don’t allow one of your only goddamn main event level performers to wrestle in a goddamn comedy tag match.

Hopefully they get fucking destroyed in the ratings. They deserve a fucking beatdown. If they aren’t going to try, then what good does it do any of us fans if they continue winning?


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Yes, they do have lots that watch on catch-up services. That's not where they're getting their money from though. They're getting their money from TV rights which are going to be primarily based on how compelling they are as live entertainment.


sodo tnt have a catch up servi


bdon said:


> @Cult03 has said numerous times that there are those who come across as overly negative, because they get to a point of defensiveness from such overly positive BS. Which I suspect is exactly where the overly positive viewpoints stem from as well.
> 
> So, both sides continue a never-ending cycle of pushing each other further and further from any middle ground.


its Human nature for some people to see the positives and human nature for some to see negatives.

i am a pessimist by nature but I’d much rather be a positive person, so I certainly wouldn’t spend my time on a forum trying to bring down someone who is being positive about something.
The issue with the negative posters is they are relentless and just seem to want to piss everyone off.


----------



## bdon

Danielallen1410 said:


> sodo tnt have a catch up servi
> 
> 
> its Human nature for some people to see the positives and human nature for some to see negatives.
> 
> i am a pessimist by nature but I’d much rather be a positive person, so I certainly wouldn’t spend my time on a forum trying to bring down someone who is being positive about something.
> The issue with the negative posters is they are relentless and just seem to want to piss everyone off.


Without anyone complaining, do you really think they would have scrapped the Nightmare Collective?


----------



## Danielallen1410

Danielallen1410 said:


> sodo tnt
> 
> 
> its Human nature for some people to see the positives and human nature for some to see negatives.
> 
> i am a pessimist by nature but I’d much rather be a positive person, so I certainly wouldn’t spend my time on a forum trying to bring down someone who is being positive about something.
> The issue with the negative posters is they are relentless and just seem to want to piss everyone off.





bdon said:


> Without anyone complaining, do you really think they would have scrapped the Nightmare Collective?


there is complaining and there’s purposely annoying people on the forum. If certain posters on here can hand on heart say their posts aren’t aimed to annoy people then fair enough, but the wood for one clearly just likes to annoy people. You are allowed a difference of opinion, but if I’m in a bar and everyone likes a film and I don’t, I’ll maybe say I don’t like it much but leave them to their conversation, I don’t interrupt everything they say with negative comments, I suspect they’d probably not want to go for a drink with me again.

I have this issue with marvel movies, all my friends love them, we’ve debated them, but I know they like them and I don’t, so now if they are talking about them I just don’t get involved.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> They deserve it, and I hope they fucking do lose. You don’t allow one of your only goddamn main event level performers to wrestle in a goddamn comedy tag match.
> 
> Hopefully they get fucking destroyed in the ratings. They deserve a fucking beatdown. If they aren’t going to try, then what good does it do any of us fans if they continue winning?


Dude the next several weeks of dynamite are taped so the ratings are not going to change anything on what's going to happen the next weeks.

Also what are you going to do if the match win some viewers or lose less viewers than the others segments ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite: 692,000 viewers.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Just maintaining a core audience by the looks of it having lost casuals.


----------



## qntntgood

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite: 692,000 viewers.


Sounds like nxt won this week.


----------



## qntntgood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Just maintaining a core audience by the looks of it having lost casuals.


Most casual people are watching the news,and not have and audience is hurting both promotion.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Danielallen1410

qntntgood said:


> Sounds like nxt won this week.


Didn’t chart


----------



## AEW_19

Before the meltdown starts, both shows will be fine. People just don't like wrestling without the crowd. It is understandable.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> Just maintaining a core audience by the looks of it having lost casuals.


They lost casuals after their debut in October. But they saw a 6,000 viewership increase this week which is good for them.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> Before the meltdown starts, both shows will be fine. People just don't like wrestling without the crowd. It is understandable.


Thats not an excuse the empty arena thingis an excuse. Dynamite just saw a 7,000 viewership increase this week so the empty arena thing doesn't hold water.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Jesus. Maybe NXT can finally stop basing their show around two nerds. The big blowoff to the IWCs favorite feud and they're not even top 50 lol


----------



## qntntgood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Didn’t chart


Wow,not having and audience is killing both of these shows.nxt more so then aew,but then again the media has found a gold mine in this corona virus.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Edit: oh shit, NXT won total viewers lol.


----------



## rbl85

AEW_19 said:


> Before the meltdown starts, both shows will be fine. People just don't like wrestling without the crowd. It is understandable.


Why a meltdown ?

I mean it's normal for shows who always do less than 1M to be around 700K when there is a pandemic.

The good news is it didn't go down.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Edit: oh shit, NXT won total viewers lol.


There are still doing the overunn ?


----------



## imthegame19

Just as expected rating this week was similar to last week. With AEW losing first viewership of the year 693 to 692. Who won doesn't matter especially how close it was and AEW winning in more important demo. But that doesn't matter either with everything on pause. Network are just happy with any original content at this point. With networks like USA and TNT just happy some people are watching their network instead of the news.


Again until All this virus stuff is over and world get back to normal. We are gonna get ratings in this range. Next week with Moxley/Hager title match. The ratings will get bump back into 700s and they will beat NXT by decent amount again. But days of being top 5-10 in 18-49 and 900,000 plus viewers isn't probably going to happen again until this is all over.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Why a meltdown ?
> 
> I mean it's normal for shows who always do less than 1M to be around 700K when there is a pandemic.
> 
> The good news is it didn't go down.


Whats that for a comment? „When there is a pandemic“? Because they come around twice a year?


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats not an excuse the empty arena thingis an excuse. Dynamite just saw a 7,000 viewership increase this week so the empty arena thing doesn't hold water.


*March 18th*: AEW 0.35 (932,000 viewers), NXT 0.16 (542,000) First non crowd show. Hardy and Brodie debut
*March 25th*: AEW 0.34 (819,000 viewers), NXT 0.20 (669,000) No crowd
*April 1*: AEW 0.25 (685,000 viewers), NXT 0.15 (590,000) No crowd
April 8: AEW (692,000 viewers) , NXT (693,000) This week

As I said, they will be fine.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> There are still doing the overunn ?


Nope none of the empty arena shows have had an over run


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Nope none of the empty arena shows have had an over run


Ok thanks


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Whats that for a comment? „When there is a pandemic“? Because they come around twice a year?


Well you know more people tend to watch the news when there is something really important happening in the world.


----------



## RapShepard

IamMark said:


> View attachment 84837


So NXT had a total of 100k extra viewers tune in this week seeing as they did 590k last week.

Dynamite gained an extra 10k this week 

That at least shows that as long as the episodes have something big folk will watch. Maybe AEW can slowly build with the tournament


----------



## imthegame19

AEW_19 said:


> *March 18th*: AEW 0.35 (932,000 viewers), NXT 0.16 (542,000) First non crowd show. Hardy and Brodie debut
> *March 25th*: AEW 0.34 (819,000 viewers), NXT 0.20 (669,000) No crowd
> *April 1*: AEW 0.25 (685,000 viewers), NXT 0.15 (590,000) No crowd
> April 8: AEW (695,000 viewers) This week
> 
> As I said, they will be fine.


Of course they will be fine. Again stuff like ratings and business is all on pause. I bet AEW is only time TNT has been in the top 150 in ratings the past few weeks and brought the most viewers to their network. If anything they are grateful to have these low numbers at this point.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW_19 said:


> *March 18th*: AEW 0.35 (932,000 viewers), NXT 0.16 (542,000) First non crowd show. Hardy and Brodie debut
> *March 25th*: AEW 0.34 (819,000 viewers), NXT 0.20 (669,000) No crowd
> *April 1*: AEW 0.25 (685,000 viewers), NXT 0.15 (590,000) No crowd
> April 8: AEW (692,000 viewers) This week
> 
> As I said, they will be fine.


Thats my point Dynamite's viewership went up so blaming the low tv ratings on empty arenas doesn't hold water.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Well you know more people tend to watch the news when there is something really important happening in the world.


That makes more sense, still NXT got around 100k more people watching than last week (20% increase) and dont tell me this is because of Charlotte, who wasnt even advertised


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> So NXT had a total of 100k extra viewers tune in this week seeing as they did 590k last week.
> 
> Dynamite gained an extra 10k this week
> 
> That at least shows that as long as the episodes have something big folk will watch. Maybe AEW can slowly build with the tournament


I bet that NXT started way stronger than AEW.

Now AEW is working with a really limited roster, a lot of the "big" names are not available.


----------



## taker1986

Expected number with no Moxley, Jerricho, Matt, MJF or Page and Omega stuck in a tag team with Nakazawa. 

Next week we have Moxley/Hager for the AEW Title and Sammy/Allin so ratings should pick up next week.


----------



## AEW_19

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats my point Dynamite's viewership went up so blaming the low tv ratings on empty arenas doesn't hold water.


6,000 is a trickle of viewers compared to the overall amount.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> So NXT had a total of 100k extra viewers tune in this week seeing as they did 590k last week.
> 
> Dynamite gained an extra 10k this week
> 
> That at least shows that as long as the episodes have something big folk will watch. Maybe AEW can slowly build with the tournament


NXT had much bigger show with putting two of their Takeover matches on. So I knew they would do better and it would be close to AEW. With them putting on pretty uneventful card besides one tournament match. Next week AEW ratings will be back in 700s and NXT will have big drop. Since AEW will have big match with Hager/Moxley.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I bet that NXT started way stronger than AEW.
> 
> Now AEW is working with a really limited roster, a lot of the "big" names are not available.


You can say the same thing for NXT. Cole not there, tag titles not there, a lot more people not there. This week was basically 11 people shown, which is around the amount of people AEW had in the audience. Maybe dont show Nakazawa in a 20mins tag match to demote your tag champ?


----------



## bdon

It is absolutely crazy that NXT only won by a 1k viewers. Almost worthy of waving the white flag for NXT, man. They couldn’t beat AEW given what each company produced, and you have to think that is absolutely an embarrassment.

I’m glad AEW done well, but at the same time, they need a punch in the dick to wake the fuck up. You can progress storylines even if you can’t have all of your talents in the building.


----------



## AEW_19

fabi1982 said:


> You can say the same thing for NXT. Cole not there, tag titles not there, a lot more people not there. This week was basically 11 people shown, which is around the amount of people AEW had in the audience. Maybe dont show Nakazawa in a 20mins tag match to demote your tag champ?


On the subject of Nakazawa, he has no redeeming qualities. The oil was funny for the first couple of times but it's old news now.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> You can say the same thing for NXT. Cole not there, tag titles not there, a lot more people not there. This week was basically 11 people shown, which is around the amount of people AEW had in the audience. Maybe dont show Nakazawa in a 20mins tag match to demote your tag champ?


Totally buried him.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> It is absolutely crazy that NXT only won by a 1k viewers. Almost worthy of waving the white flag for NXT, man. They couldn’t beat AEW given what each company produced, and you have to think that is absolutely an embarrassment.
> 
> I’m glad AEW done well, but at the same time, they need a punch in the dick to wake the fuck up. *You can progress storylines even if you can’t have all of your talents in the building*.


How ?


----------



## Danielallen1410

imthegame19 said:


> NXT had much bigger show with putting two of their Takeover matches on. So I knew they would do better and it would be close to AEW. With them putting on pretty uneventful card besides one tournament match. Next week AEW ratings will be back in 700s and NXT will have big drop. Since AEW will have big match with Hager/Moxley.


problem is wwe are going back to live shows soon and aew have taped about a months worth. NXT can react week to week, AEW are stuck with what they have.


----------



## imthegame19

Danielallen1410 said:


> Seriously you are talkin
> 
> 
> problem is wwe are going back to live shows soon and aew have taped about a months worth. NXT can react week to week, AEW are stuck with what they have.


NXT is taping bunch of shows this weekend too. Just like Raw/Smackdown. They aren't going live every week. Plus in-ring matches are taped for next month. But promos from home or anything they do at Hardy compound can be added to these shows and adjust.


----------



## Fearless Viper

AEW won on demos, right?


----------



## Danielallen1410

imthegame19 said:


> NXT is taping bunch of shows this weekend too. Just like Raw/Smackdown. They aren't going live every week.


I stand corrected, was sure I saw they were going live again.


----------



## rbl85

Fearless Viper said:


> AEW won on demos, right?


Yep by a good margin


----------



## AEW_19

Britt Baker


----------



## Danielallen1410

The good thing is they aren’t losing viewers to NXT, I wonder where NXTs extra 100k came from? WrestleMania hump? May check the show out.


----------



## imthegame19

Danielallen1410 said:


> I stand corrected, was sure I saw they were going live again.


Yeah see nothing to worry about. World Title match will be next week. As TNT title tournament goes on those matches will bring more interest. They will probably do Matt Hardy/Jericho Hardy compound match in coming weeks as well. In next week or two they will need to decide if they are gonna do Double or Nothing from somewhere. If show they can have guys tape promos from home to set up matches to include in these shows as well.


----------



## qntntgood

Danielallen1410 said:


> The good thing is they aren’t losing viewers to NXT, I wonder where NXTs extra 100k came from? WrestleMania hump? May check the show out.


The post wrestlemania bump,but still lost in all the key demo's.wrestling needs it's audience.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> How ?


Creativity. Video packages sent in by the guys on lockdown. Use some of the BTE stuff in a more serious manner. Show some matches from the Bucks’ place. There are ways around what is going on.

But goddamn, they could have done anything, even if it doesn’t progress any storylines, and it would have been better than the Nakazawa comedy bullshit.


----------



## Danielallen1410

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah see nothing to worry about. World Title match will be next week. As TNT title tournament goes on those matches will bring more interest. They will probably do Matt Hardy/Jericho Hardy compound match in coming weeks as well. In next week or two they will need to decide if they are gonna do Double or Nothing from somewhere. If show they can have guys tape promos from home to set up matches to include in these shows as well.


personally I’d much rather they learnt from wrestlemanias mistake and postpone double or nothing, I’d imagine WrestleMania buyrate was poor, im sure people like me who have the network will have watched it but I can’t imagine many will have paid for it.


----------



## RiverFenix

Given Khan's own Daily's Place they could time DoN II to be the first PPV with crowd out of the Corona lockdowns. Florida will be one of the first out with DeSantis there as well - of course it might not be near safe enough when Trump pushes to "get back to normal" for the sake of his re-election.


----------



## One Shed

AEW deserved to lose after that tag match. That thing was beyond horrid.


----------



## The Wood

NXT SLAUGHTERED AEW this week! Haha, take that, AEW!

Do you see how annoying that is? 1k people is nothing and could be a glitch. It’s one week. Let’s see if they can make it two.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> NXT SLAUGHTERED AEW this week! Haha, take that, AEW!
> 
> Do you see how annoying that is? 1k people is nothing and could be a glitch. It’s one week. Let’s see if they can make it two.


Goddamnit.

I was so looking forward to you coming in gloating that you missed your “NXT will be winning by Mania!!” prediction by a mere 3 days, man. You let me down. I was legit looking forward to a back and forth banter with your ass. Lol


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Goddamnit.
> 
> I was so looking forward to you coming in gloating that you missed your “NXT will be winning by Mania!!” prediction by a mere 3 days, man. You let me down. I was legit looking forward to a back and forth banter with your ass. Lol


Haha, you’ll have to try and catch me on something else.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> AEW deserved to lose after that tag match. That thing was beyond horrid.


They probably didn't "lose" because of that.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Given Khan's own Daily's Place they could time DoN II to be the first PPV with crowd out of the Corona lockdowns. Florida will be one of the first out with DeSantis there as well - of course it might not be near safe enough when Trump pushes to "get back to normal" for the sake of his re-election.


It is owned by the city of Jacksonville


----------



## Mike E

NXT had some great matches advertised, probably the reason they got the bump in viewership. Dynamite was really good this week so hopefully that helps them out next week. Still expect the numbers to be down like its been trending since the virus started taking hold of the county.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> They probably didn't "lose" because of that.


I never said they lost because of the match, I said they deserved to lose.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> They probably didn't "lose" because of that.


Do you put "lose" in quotation marks when AEW narrowly squeaks one out over NXT too? Genuinely curious. I'm not sure if it'd be you, but I kind of came in here to have a snicker at all the AEW fans suddenly doing a turnabout on the importance and accuracy of the ratings.

The silly stuff probably doesn't affect the ratings of that week though -- you're right. All this bullshit with Matt Hardy, Michael Nakazawa, etc. will take time to rot the promotion. Acts like Orange Cassidy, Joey Janela and Marko Stunt have already capped them. It's why they have only been able to hook about half of the initial viewers who checked them out. And no, please don't someone tell me that they were always going to go down. Bullshit. Those people were interested in wrestling, they got horse shit, they tuned out. If they liked it, they would have come back.


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> sodo tnt have a catch up servi
> 
> 
> its Human nature for some people to see the positives and human nature for some to see negatives.
> 
> i am a pessimist by nature but I’d much rather be a positive person, so I certainly wouldn’t spend my time on a forum trying to bring down someone who is being positive about something.
> The issue with the negative posters is they are relentless and just seem to want to piss everyone off.


I'm not even a pessimist. AEW just has plenty to criticize in the hopes it will improve. And because of complaints they've changed heaps. I'm not going to piss in anyone's pocket and tell them it's raining. The show isn't perfect and needs to stop doing dumb shit like that Omega/Nakazawa match


----------



## CMPunkRock316

WWE/NXT stans crack me up. NXT loses by 100-200K viewers and gets demolished in the demo it is the ratings aren't accurate. Lose by 75-100k in viewers and still win demos comfortably ratings still aren't accurate and blame Matt Hardy. Now it is a 1k difference in viewership but still lose demo by over 30% and it is counted as a win by stan McMahon. What is higher .26 or .19 ?


----------



## Cult03

CMPunkRock316 said:


> WWE/NXT stans crack me up. NXT loses by 100-200K viewers and gets demolished in the demo it is the ratings aren't accurate. Lose by 75-100k in viewers and still win demos comfortably ratings still aren't accurate and blame Matt Hardy. Now it is a 1k difference in viewership but still lose demo by over 30% and it is counted as a win by stan McMahon. What is higher .26 or .19 ?


Do me a favour and reply to the WWE/NXT stan who said any of that please


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> It is absolutely crazy that NXT only won by a 1k viewers. Almost worthy of waving the white flag for NXT, man. They couldn’t beat AEW given what each company produced, and you have to think that is absolutely an embarrassment.
> 
> I’m glad AEW done well, but at the same time, they need a punch in the dick to wake the fuck up. You can progress storylines even if you can’t have all of your talents in the building.


Honestly, it just proves that ratings don't matter. The better show won by 1k when it should have been a lot more. Wrestling fans put too much into ratings when we should just decide which show is better based on content


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Honestly, it just proves that ratings don't matter. The better show won by 1k when it should have been a lot more. Wrestling fans put too much into ratings when we should just decide which show is better based on content


And most weeks, that has been AEW. Every single week, the best wrestling occurs on Wednesday night, except when AEW or NXT has a Saturday PPV.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> They probably didn't "lose" because of that.


If anyone changed the channel from that garbage to Gargano/Ciampa which was happening at the same time, they weren't turning back.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> And most weeks, that has been AEW. Every single week, the best wrestling occurs on Wednesday night, except when AEW or NXT has a Saturday PPV.


I think most weeks AEW win too, but AEW is like half really good and half absolutely terrible, whereas NXT is just good without any of the terrible stuff. They're playing it very safe


----------



## The Wood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> WWE/NXT stans crack me up. NXT loses by 100-200K viewers and gets demolished in the demo it is the ratings aren't accurate. Lose by 75-100k in viewers and still win demos comfortably ratings still aren't accurate and blame Matt Hardy. Now it is a 1k difference in viewership but still lose demo by over 30% and it is counted as a win by stan McMahon. What is higher .26 or .19 ?


Lol, who the fuck said any of this? 

To be honest, I would have expected NXT to win by a lot more. This was probably their most promoted show in a long time. Do they have places to go after this? I haven't watched yet, so I'm not sure. 

Honestly, I thought they would have put Scarlett Bordeaux out in skimpy outfits by now, because that is what is going to NXT over the line with AEW permanently. Sad fact of life that you can have guys busting their asses to try and put on what they think is good wrestling, but a hot girl wearing next to nothing is going to be a far more pressing issue with wrestling fans.


----------



## taker_2004

Fite COO describes AEW audience numbers as 'quite staggering' - Streamingwars.com


The COO of premium sports streaming platform Fite TV has described his astonishment at the viewership on AEW.




streamingwars.com







> The COO of premium sports streaming platform Fite TV has described his astonishment at the viewership on AEW.
> 
> All Elite Wrestling launched its weekly TV show, called Dynamite, on October 2. The content has helped to build up an engaged global following.
> 
> COO Michael Weber recently spoke out on The Wrestling Inc Daily Podcast, describing the live viewership for Dynamite in Europe as ‘quite staggering’.
> 
> He said: ‘We offer a subscription called *AEW Plus that’s not available in the US, Canada, Germany or France* but is available in the rest of the world. It’s been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it’s had a steady climb.
> 
> ‘What gets me is that I get the numbers of people watching it live and it’s quite staggering how many people are watching it live from Europe which is early in the morning. They have a strong and loyal following.’



I wish we could get more concrete data on OTT consumption habits. Given AEW's audience skews younger, it wouldn't surprise me if it favored them over WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Just remember TNA had staggering numbers for quite a few years also. AEW still benefits from being fresh and exciting a little bit. More bad shows like the one this week and they'll be wrestling on TV with 150,000 people watching.


----------



## The Wood

Today's news: PR statement says good things.


----------



## DaSlacker

Cult03 said:


> I think most weeks AEW win too, but AEW is like half really good and half absolutely terrible, whereas NXT is just good without any of the terrible stuff. They're playing it very safe


Problem is it's part of WWE and shit lingers. Plus eventually the popular talents are called up, like Keith Lee and Velveteen Dream will be once they get back on the road. If it was truly its own promotion it would probably lead the ratings. If it was held in big arenas.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Cult03 said:


> Do me a favour and reply to the WWE/NXT stan who said any of that please


There are a couple of you who do it.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Cult03 said:


> Honestly, it just proves that ratings don't matter. The better show won by 1k when it should have been a lot more. Wrestling fans put too much into ratings when we should just decide which show is better based on content


The better show won by over 30% in the demo. 

i remember when AEW won by 8K viewers last year you guys were spinning it hard.


----------



## The Wood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> There are a couple of you who do it.


Can you please provide evidence for this? Saying people do it is not evidence. 



CMPunkRock316 said:


> The better show won by over 30% in the demo.
> 
> i remember when AEW won by 8K viewers last year you guys were spinning it hard.


Cult’s position has always been that the ratings don’t matter. You’re projecting hard. If you’re talking about me, my stance is just that calculating ratings still isn’t an exact science and is an extrapolation from limited data with a 10% margin of error, so a win by 8k or whatever doesn’t really mean anything heavy. _Which is the exact same line I’ve taken with this NXT “victory.”_


----------



## RapShepard

Yeah it makes a lot of sense. The Elite built their entire brand on the backs of interacting with fans online. It makes all the sense in the world for them to have a strong presence on Fite.TV. Their core fan base would probably be used to the service as it hosts a lot of wrestling content.


----------



## Cult03

CMPunkRock316 said:


> There are a couple of you who do it.


Tag them or respond to them. Otherwise you're lying


----------



## Cult03

CMPunkRock316 said:


> The better show won by over 30% in the demo.
> 
> i remember when AEW won by 8K viewers last year you guys were spinning it hard.


You remember wrong. I never spun rating, I don't believe they matter. I'd rather watch the worst AEW show ever over Married at First Sight and that show seems to beat AEW pretty often, does that make it a better show in your opinion?


----------



## kingfrass44

CMPunkRock316 said:


> WWE/NXT stans crack me up. NXT loses by 100-200K viewers and gets demolished in the demo it is the ratings aren't accurate. Lose by 75-100k in viewers and still win demos comfortably ratings still aren't accurate and blame Matt Hardy. Now it is a 1k difference in viewership but still lose demo by over 30% and it is counted as a win by stan McMahon. What is higher .26 or .19 ?


These are not blame Matt Hardy These are facts
Trying to bring excuses


----------



## the_flock

People using the pandemic as an excuse is bullshit. Especially here in the UK, ratings are through the roof for most shows as more people are at home. 

This is the perfect opportunity for promotions to increase viewership. If they're recording weeks in advance, they can't adapt and it will hurt them.


----------



## Jagaver

I am at home in the UK, and watching more TV than I usually do, but I'm struggling with NXT (which I normally watch religiously) as I really can't get into the empty arena. I'm sticking with AEW a little better due to the show at least having a bit of atmosphere with the wrestlers at ringside.

I think it's pretty clear the pandemic is a factor in the ratings dropping, even if it doesn't bother you, there will be people deciding to take a pass on the shows until they have crowds again.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_flock said:


> People using the pandemic as an excuse is bullshit. Especially here in the UK, ratings are through the roof for most shows as more people are at home.
> 
> This is the perfect opportunity for promotions to increase viewership. If they're recording weeks in advance, they can't adapt and it will hurt them.


Look at the ratings table dummy. News shows and networks are dominating.

to assume it has played no factor is either ignorance or, well, playing ignorant. I thought that AEWs ratings would increase during this time, but this speculation has been proven false. 

You must realise that there are also other outlets, such as Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Disney+ that these ratings don’t take into account.

Wrestling simply doesn’t draw as well as it did back in the Attitude Era. I wonder how WWE/AEW would do if they moved to mainstream streaming platforms


----------



## Erik.

the_flock said:


> People using the pandemic as an excuse is bullshit. Especially here in the UK, ratings are through the roof for most shows as more people are at home.
> 
> This is the perfect opportunity for promotions to increase viewership. If they're recording weeks in advance, they can't adapt and it will hurt them.


Find me a show in the UK from a usually unpopular source (like wrestling) that a few hundred thousand people watch that's increased during this pandemic. 

And I'll stop using a worldwide crisis as an excuse as to why news channels are dominating the ratings.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Look at the ratings table dummy. News shows and networks are dominating.
> 
> to assume it has played no factor is either ignorance or, well, playing ignorant. I thought that AEWs ratings would increase during this time, but this speculation has been proven false.
> 
> You must realise that there are also other outlets, such as Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Disney+ that these ratings don’t take into account.
> 
> Wrestling simply doesn’t draw as well as it did back in the Attitude Era. I wonder how WWE/AEW would do if they moved to mainstream streaming platforms


News shows dominating DOES NOT mean that wrestling has to suffer. More people are watching cable than normally would because they are trapped inside their fucking houses. That doesn't mean that people who would normally be watching cable are suddenly going "Welp, can't do what I normally do inside now that I'm stuck inside, better watch the fucking news RIGHT NOW!"

Yeah, there are other things that people would rather watch. That is the problem. They aren't good enough. And yeah, wrestling doesn't draw as well as it used to -- because it's not very good now. It's incredible how AEW sycophants will use wrestling being in a hole to justify wrestling being in a hole. 



MJF said:


> Find me a show in the UK from a usually unpopular source (like wrestling) that a few hundred thousand people watch that's increased during this pandemic.
> 
> And I'll stop using a worldwide crisis as an excuse as to why news channels are dominating the ratings.


Has this pandemic affected anything else negatively? Let's take a look. 

Married at First Sight: 1.22 last week to 1.18 this week.

My 600lbs Life: 1.03 last week to 996k this week. 

Black Ink Crew: 771k last week to 816k this week. 

Seems like most shows are holding steady. Were these shows doing 1.5, 1.3 and 1.2 million viewers, respectively, prior to this pandemic? Because if not, then the argument that news shows are cutting into wrestling is absolute _bullshit_. If you want to argue that a lack of crowds hurts these shows and makes them feel less significant, I'll hear that, but let's not pretend that it's the fucking news. No one is criticizing AEW or NXT for their placing in the ratings -- which is the only way bringing up news shows makes sense. They're criticizing them for their inability to hold the attention of a more captive than usual audience.


----------



## the_flock

optikk sucks said:


> Look at the ratings table dummy. News shows and networks are dominating.


Unlike you I'm not going to resort to childish name-calling. Facts are facts. Average daily viewership is up by 23% across the board. Day time viewing is up by 46%. Comedy channels in particular are up by 63%. For the 3rd week in a row, TV viewership has increased based on the previous year, coincidence much.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

The Wood said:


> News shows dominating DOES NOT mean that wrestling has to suffer. More people are watching cable than normally would because they are trapped inside their fucking houses. That doesn't mean that people who would normally be watching cable are suddenly going "Welp, can't do what I normally do inside now that I'm stuck inside, better watch the fucking news RIGHT NOW!"
> 
> Yeah, there are other things that people would rather watch. That is the problem. They aren't good enough. And yeah, wrestling doesn't draw as well as it used to -- because it's not very good now. It's incredible how AEW sycophants will use wrestling being in a hole to justify wrestling being in a hole.


The news has little or nothing to do with it. The lack of a crowd is obviously what's turning some people off. Wrestling works as well as it does because of audience participation, having no one there to react to anything that anyone is doing just sucks the energy out of the show.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Cult03 said:


> You remember wrong. I never spun rating, I don't believe they matter. I'd rather watch the worst AEW show ever over Married at First Sight and that show seems to beat AEW pretty often, does that make it a better show in your opinion?


I was wrong it was 9k that week.


----------



## jordyjames26

AEW is so close to firing. Need to cut the deadwood like a Janella, marko, Kenny best friend, Chuck Taylor, Daniels, dark order jobbers. Keep stacking the roster with wardlow, lee, jake roberts new wrestler and they're set. 

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## Cult03

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I was wrong.


That's all you had to say. I forgive you


----------



## Geeee

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just remember TNA had staggering numbers for quite a few years also. AEW still benefits from being fresh and exciting a little bit. More bad shows like the one this week and they'll be wrestling on TV with 150,000 people watching.


Have you liked any of the episodes?


----------



## AEW_19

We've been starved of big time wrestling for a long time in the UK. It will be a bastard to try and get tickets if they do end up running a PPV here.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW_19 said:


> We've been starved of big time wrestling for a long time in the UK. It will be a bastard to try and get tickets if they do end up running a PPV here.


O2 or Wembley Arena?

I really hope they do some specials, like what WWE did back in the dayl


----------



## rbl85

The thing is even the people living in country where AEW is not available find a way to watch AEW on Fite TV, just need a VPN.


----------



## AEW_19

optikk sucks said:


> O2 or Wembley Arena?
> 
> I really hope they do some specials, like what WWE did back in the dayl


I would love if they came to Glasgow but I will fly down if it's in London. Most likely the 02.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_flock said:


> Unlike you I'm not going to resort to childish name-calling. Facts are facts. Average daily viewership is up by 23% across the board. Day time viewing is up by 46%. Comedy channels in particular are up by 63%. For the 3rd week in a row, TV viewership has increased based on the previous year, coincidence much.


where are your stats from? do they include or exclude news channels?





__





Content consumption changing because of pandemic - Content Marketing - BizReport


With many Americans either working from home or self-quarantining at home because of the Covid-19 pandemic, content publishers, TV networks, and content creators are seeing a drastic uptick in content consumptions. Here are a few of the most recent findings.



www.bizreport.com





"Daytime viewing is overtaking primetime for ratings numbers. That is a key takeaway from new Samba TV data. According to their numbers daytime viewing numbers are up 121% YoY and total viewing time is up 85% YoY. Viewing of cable news has also seen a sharp uptick between the hours of 9am and 4pm; across the major news networks viewership during these hours is up 347% YoY. CNN and MSNBC are leading viewer numbers with each showing an over 500% YoY increase in viewer numbers. "

*Cable news huh.*









COVID-19 Brings Younger Demos Back to TV


Teens have spent 46% more time watching television during the pandemic, according to a new VAB report.




www.adweek.com






As for what content audiences are viewing, the VAB found that weekly time spent watching ad-supported TV news has jumped 81% for adults 18-34, 66% for adults 35-49 and 43% for adults 50-64. Meanwhile, viewership of *ad-supported movies* has increased 61% for teens 12-17 and 32% for adults 18-34.
The VAB report is the latest indication of how viewing habits have changed and increased amid the pandemic.
Data from Inscape two weeks ago found that without live sports, *fans had switched to binge-watching and news*, with viewers spending 47% more time streaming than the previous weekend.
And a week ago, Nielsen found that* TV time has spiked for kids stuck at home during the COVID-19 pandemic,* with total television use up 18% compared to the previous week.

*can't binge-watch AEW or WWE can you? is AEW suitable for kids? *


----------



## the_flock

optikk sucks said:


> where are your stats from? do they include or exclude news channels?


Official stats. 

Obviously the 10pm news is going to be number 1. It always has been, news doesn't dominate the top 10 weekly overnights.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_flock said:


> Official stats.
> 
> Obviously the 10pm news is going to be number 1. It always has been, news doesn't dominate the top 10 weekly overnights.


have a look at what i've posted.

Have posted official stats as well. Tells us that it's kids shows, movies, binge-watching and news that have seen increases.


----------



## the_flock

MJF said:


> Find me a show in the UK from a usually unpopular source (like wrestling) that a few hundred thousand people watch that's increased during this pandemic.
> 
> And I'll stop using a worldwide crisis as an excuse as to why news channels are dominating the ratings.


Not a few hundred thousand, but as an example Friday night dinner has become the biggest British sitcom in over a decade. Its up by over 2 million viewers since it was last on. That is because of the epidemic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

So guys, no need for any more speculation.









COVID-19 Brings Younger Demos Back to TV


Teens have spent 46% more time watching television during the pandemic, according to a new VAB report.




www.adweek.com





To summarise: ratings have increased for news shows, kids shows and movies. Binge-watching figures have also increased - which suggests that more people are choosing to watch Netflix, Disney+, Hulu and Prime. Unfortunately AEW is not available on a streaming outlet where people can binge-watch. WWE may actually be seeing increases in their Network. Good sign for them.

Sports fans are *not* choosing to watch AEW/WWE in place of their sports shows. Instead, they are binge-watching or watching the news.

Here is the article if you wish to read it without registering:


http://imgur.com/a/EwedAnE


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW live is amazing. I was at Austin/HEB Center and I will never forget it. Great time.


----------



## Britz94xD

ITV box office closed so they probably got huge increase of UK fans too.


----------



## the_flock

optikk sucks said:


> have a look at what i've posted.
> 
> Have posted official stats as well. Tells us that it's kids shows, movies, binge-watching and news that have seen increases.


I did, but you edited it after I had already responded. I was also talking about the UK market, not the American. 

In terms of the American Market, they're saying that the pandemic has stopped the decline in TV ratings across the board. Its not just kids shows, news and movies which has seen gains. Everything from Ellen, to the Bachelor, American Idol, Greys Anatomy, Will and Grace, etc etc have all had significant gains. 

Fact of the matter is more people are watching TV now than they have in many years. You can't make up excuses to explain why AEW have dropped viewers when ratings everywhere else are skyrocketing.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_flock said:


> I did, but you edited it after I had already responded. I was also talking about the UK market, not the American.
> 
> In terms of the American Market, they're saying that the pandemic has stopped the decline in TV ratings across the board. Its not just kids shows, news and movies which has seen gains. Everything from Ellen, to the Bachelor, American Idol, Greys Anatomy, Will and Grace, etc etc have all had significant gains.
> 
> Fact of the matter is more people are watching TV now than they have in many years. You can't make up excuses to explain why AEW have dropped viewers when ratings everywhere else are skyrocketing.


AEW haven't dropped viewers. 

They did similar ratings prior to the pandemic. The fact is the product is just not appealing right now. I'd consider a drop anything under 600k. 600k is their base number.


----------



## imthegame19

Just like that XFL is shutting down. The best thing AEW did was get that tv deal from TNT. Without that Shad Khan would have had to pour money into the company to keep them alive through this pandemic.


With losing so much money from live attendance, merchandise sales etc for next few months. While its going to be a long time before tv networks are gonna shell out money for content again. I know this pandemic stuff couldn't be predicted. But it's funny to see clown like the Wood being wrong and looking stupid again.


Saying AEW took a bad deal etc lol. Goes to show when you let dislike/hate for something clown your thinking. Well you are going to be wrong and look stupid alot. When because AEW took that deal when they did they will be ok. While other wise Shad Khan would have probably had to bail them out from this. That is why you take upfront guarantee money when you are a brand new company. You never know what could happen in the world. So it's stupid gamble to wait for bigger money a year from now. Some haters couldn't see that and ended up being great decision by AEW.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Just like that XFL is shutting down.


Where are all of those people here who disagreed with me? I told everyone it wouldn't make it past this season.

The writing was on the wall before the pandemic. Interest was plummeting at a massive rate.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Where are all of those people here who disagreed with me? I told everyone it wouldn't make it past this season.
> 
> The writing was on the wall before the pandemic. Interest was plummeting at a massive rate.


Yep. There is no room for more football in America.


----------



## taker1986

AEW_19 said:


> We've been starved of big time wrestling for a long time in the UK. It will be a bastard to try and get tickets if they do end up running a PPV here.


They need to do a UK tour. I doubt it'll happen this year because of virus but maybe in 2021


----------



## CRCC

Good.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW needs to come out of the corona with a major signing to get buzz going 100 mph again. And, no, as much as I like the idea of FTR being in AEW, they aren't the level im talking. Im talking Mox level.


----------



## rbl85

So Meltzer said on twitter that there was actually only a 400 viewers difference between AEW and NXT

He also wrote the following : "Very interesting quarters. I'll say this. Definitely not what you would expect."

I would laugh so much if the tag match was the draw of the night XD


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> So Meltzer said on twitter that there was actually only a 400 viewers difference between AEW and NXT
> 
> He also wrote the following : "Very interesting quarters. I'll say this. Definitely not what you would expect."


I’m going to be ashamed if Omega and Nakazawa actually gained viewers. Lol


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I’m going to be ashamed if Omega and Nakazawa actually gained viewers. Lol


Maybe people like this type of match once in a while, even more in the actual situation with the pandemic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Will be back to normal next week when Moxley and Hager collide. Moxley = ratings.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> I’m going to be ashamed if Omega and Nakazawa actually gained viewers. Lol


It would basically confirm my belief that the average wrestling fan has the IQ of a crayon.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> It would basically confirm my belief that the average wrestling fan has the IQ of a crayon.


That’s the general population. 

We are all here critiquing what we think works or doesn’t work. But at the end of the day, who fucking knows. We are all armchair producers here.


----------



## Erik.

El Hammerstone said:


> It would basically confirm my belief that the average wrestling fan has the IQ of a crayon.


It will confirm my belief that no one knows exactly what other people want when it comes to pro wrestling.


----------



## Mike E

Just because the same 10 to 15 people come into this conversation and say how horrible certain aspects of the show is doesn't necessarily reflect what the rest of the world thinks. Quite opposite to be honest, I've watched several YouTube videos from the bigger wrestling channels and everyone loved dynamite this week including the tag match. When I was reading through the comments most people agreed so I would say that the people who hate it are in the minority. Now I'm not saying that people who hate it are wrong because everyone is entitled to an opinion, and can hate whatever they want. All I'm saying is that you guys have to realize that you don't speak for the majority when it comes to your opinions.


----------



## kingfrass44

Mike E said:


> Just because the same 10 to 15 people come into this conversation and say how horrible certain aspects of the show is doesn't necessarily reflect what the rest of the world thinks. Quite opposite to be honest, I've watched several YouTube videos from the bigger wrestling channels and everyone loved dynamite this week including the tag match. When I was reading through the comments most people agreed so I would say that the people who hate it are in the minority. Now I'm not saying that people who hate it are wrong because everyone is entitled to an opinion, and can hate whatever they want. All I'm saying is that you guys have to realize that you don't speak for the majority when it comes to your opinions.


YouTube is not a measure
You are from a minority and it is clear that you are from aew fans


----------



## Danielallen1410

Personally during this pandemic I’ve gone back and watched raw and nitro plus pay per views from the first nitro onwards. I’m into January now. I’ve watched aew every week when it’s on itv4 and watched WrestleMania. not bothered with any other wwe programming.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW needs to come out of the corona with a major signing to get buzz going 100 mph again. And, no, as much as I like the idea of FTR being in AEW, they aren't the level im talking. Im talking Mox level.


Who can they get? Everyone with taste is going to WWE.


----------



## Mike E

kingfrass44 said:


> YouTube is not a measure
> You are from a minority and it is clear that you are from aew fans


Oh yeah I'm definitely a fan of AEW but I know they aren't perfect, but no company is. Most of the videos I watched had over 50,000 views and the comment section was overwhelmingly positive. So that's definitely more of a majority than the 10 to 15 people who are constantly saying they don't like it in this thread. Ultimately it doesn't really matter though, as long as Khan and TNT are happy thats what really matters. All accounts are that khan and TNT are very happy, so i mean all the arguing is for nothing honestly.


----------



## AEW_19

The Wood said:


> Who can they get? Everyone with taste is going to WWE.


----------



## The Wood

Lockard The GOAT said:


> The news has little or nothing to do with it. The lack of a crowd is obviously what's turning some people off. Wrestling works as well as it does because of audience participation, having no one there to react to anything that anyone is doing just sucks the energy out of the show.


Hey, an intelligent thought on the subject. Yeah, live crowds hurt the presentation. That doesn't necessarily mean ratings need to drop though. Especially if you have talent that know how to work to TV audiences. 



CMPunkRock316 said:


> I was wrong it was 9k that week.





optikk sucks said:


> where are your stats from? do they include or exclude news channels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Content consumption changing because of pandemic - Content Marketing - BizReport
> 
> 
> With many Americans either working from home or self-quarantining at home because of the Covid-19 pandemic, content publishers, TV networks, and content creators are seeing a drastic uptick in content consumptions. Here are a few of the most recent findings.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bizreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Daytime viewing is overtaking primetime for ratings numbers. That is a key takeaway from new Samba TV data. According to their numbers daytime viewing numbers are up 121% YoY and total viewing time is up 85% YoY. Viewing of cable news has also seen a sharp uptick between the hours of 9am and 4pm; across the major news networks viewership during these hours is up 347% YoY. CNN and MSNBC are leading viewer numbers with each showing an over 500% YoY increase in viewer numbers. "
> 
> *Cable news huh.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 Brings Younger Demos Back to TV
> 
> 
> Teens have spent 46% more time watching television during the pandemic, according to a new VAB report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.adweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for what content audiences are viewing, the VAB found that weekly time spent watching ad-supported TV news has jumped 81% for adults 18-34, 66% for adults 35-49 and 43% for adults 50-64. Meanwhile, viewership of *ad-supported movies* has increased 61% for teens 12-17 and 32% for adults 18-34.
> The VAB report is the latest indication of how viewing habits have changed and increased amid the pandemic.
> Data from Inscape two weeks ago found that without live sports, *fans had switched to binge-watching and news*, with viewers spending 47% more time streaming than the previous weekend.
> And a week ago, Nielsen found that* TV time has spiked for kids stuck at home during the COVID-19 pandemic,* with total television use up 18% compared to the previous week.
> 
> *can't binge-watch AEW or WWE can you? is AEW suitable for kids? *


Argh, this is so frustrating. *No one is saying that cable news has not gone up. They are just saying that doesn't mean wrestling needs to go down.* 

So you basically shared data that said that more people are watching TV, they're just not watching AEW? _Exactly._

It's AEW's fault it's not suitable for kids. And people binge-watching things has nothing to do with them not watching AEW when it is on. This is complete nonsense and you're using the fact that no one watches AEW to justify why no one watches it. 



imthegame19 said:


> Just like that XFL is shutting down. The best thing AEW did was get that tv deal from TNT. Without that Shad Khan would have had to pour money into the company to keep them alive through this pandemic.
> 
> 
> With losing so much money from live attendance, merchandise sales etc for next few months. While its going to be a long time before tv networks are gonna shell out money for content again. I know this pandemic stuff couldn't be predicted. But it's funny to see clown like the Wood being wrong and looking stupid again.
> 
> 
> Saying AEW took a bad deal etc lol. Goes to show when you let dislike/hate for something clown your thinking. Well you are going to be wrong and look stupid alot. When because AEW took that deal when they did they will be ok. While other wise Shad Khan would have probably had to bail them out from this. That is why you take upfront guarantee money when you are a brand new company. You never know what could happen in the world. So it's stupid gamble to wait for bigger money a year from now. Some haters couldn't see that and ended up being great decision by AEW.


You know what is better than $45 million a year? More money. That's what people have always said. They should have gotten more money, but they were niche and locked themselves out. Obviously that money is better than $0. Who would argue that? But $135 million per year is better than $135 million over three, and it was completely doable, AEW sycophants just want to have their head in the sand. 



rbl85 said:


> So Meltzer said on twitter that there was actually only a 400 viewers difference between AEW and NXT
> 
> He also wrote the following : "Very interesting quarters. I'll say this. Definitely not what you would expect."
> 
> I would laugh so much if the tag match was the draw of the night XD


Meltzer will try to narrow the gap as much as he can. He couldn't help but mention AEW in the same breath as the XFL going out of business. He's a mark for them. That is obvious by this point. He's the only person with any sort of reputation I know that takes TV ratings that seriously or literally. Basically everyone else in television scoffs at them, especially when you are getting down to an estimated 400 people. Yeah, because that data from people with boxes can be perfectly extrapolated like that. There's absolutely no way that an extra person with a box decided to watch AEW this week and it doesn't reflect a few hundred people or whatever. 



bdon said:


> I’m going to be ashamed if Omega and Nakazawa actually gained viewers. Lol


Even if it did, that isn't necessarily a good thing. If you gather thousands of people to see you propose to someone, and they say no, you'd probably wish that there were a few thousand less people to witness your embarrassment. The quality of the content is important. Good content being viewed by lots of people = good. Good quality entertainment not being viewed by many people = troubling. Bad quality entertainment being viewed by not many people = ew, get your shit together. Bad quality entertainment being viewed by lots of people = you're actually poisoning a well and kind of fuck you a lot. 

There will be people who laugh and celebrate if people tuned over to see that disaster, but try asking those people to fork out $50 to see a fight from that promotion now. Try and get them to buy a ticket (when that's possible), or even to come back next week. Bad YouTube videos get plenty of hits. It's not the same as serializing successful content. 

If I really hated AEW like people accuse me of -- and I'm not saying I do, of course -- then I'd probably hope the segment was their highest rated, haha. 



Mike E said:


> Just because the same 10 to 15 people come into this conversation and say how horrible certain aspects of the show is doesn't necessarily reflect what the rest of the world thinks. Quite opposite to be honest, I've watched several YouTube videos from the bigger wrestling channels and everyone loved dynamite this week including the tag match. When I was reading through the comments most people agreed so I would say that the people who hate it are in the minority. Now I'm not saying that people who hate it are wrong because everyone is entitled to an opinion, and can hate whatever they want. All I'm saying is that you guys have to realize that you don't speak for the majority when it comes to your opinions.


Well, they do speak for the majority. Most people think wrestling sucks, and most wrestling fans think most modern wrestling sucks. There were about 10 million people who watched about 21 years ago. Most of those people are very much alive, and many of them are now in that key demo. They don't watch and that's their vote.


----------



## The Wood

Well, go on. Who can they get?


----------



## Mike E

You got to give them time, it hasn't even been a year since AEW made their TV debut. I agree that most people who watched back then turned away because of a subpar product on TV weekly. Myself and a lot of others haven't had this much fun watching wrestling for a long time, more people will find them. Also a lot more people are watching then the ratings say because you got a good amount of people now using Torrent sites or streaming sites for content. Also as far as I know the ratings don't show DVR numbers. Just think about how long it took TNA to average over 500,000 viewers and get a good TV deal. By all accounts AEW are way ahead of the curve.


----------



## AEW_19

The Wood said:


> Well, go on. Who can they get?







That feud would draw 2 million easily.


----------



## The Wood

I don't know why people think you've got to give a TV show time to gain traction.


----------



## Mike E

The Wood said:


> I don't know why people think you've got to give a TV show time to gain traction.


Well I mean the logical answer is the longer they are on TV, the more time people have an opportunity to find them. I have several friends that were fans back when we were teenagers during the Monday night wars that knew nothing about AEW until i told them recently. Now they are enjoying AEW weekly like myself and my wife.


----------



## La Parka

AEW_19 said:


> That feud would draw 2 million easily.


oh my god. 

There's two of them!?


----------



## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> That feud would draw 2 million easily.


What is this? A wrestling company for ants?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Mike E said:


> Well I mean the logical answer is the longer they are on TV, the more time people have an opportunity to find them. I have several friends that were fans back when we were teenagers during the Monday night wars that knew nothing about AEW until i told them recently. Now they are enjoying AEW weekly like myself and my wife.


What you're saying is not logical or rooted in reality.

The most number of people that have ever watched AEW, did so on October 2nd and that was due to Khan and TNT spending millions in advertising for their debut. They had billboards in Time Square, ads in movies previews and even during Raw. Viewership has declined and has come nowhere close to that since. Having shitty characters like Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss and guys like Jack Thwagger fighting your champion has gone a long way in permanently eroding a large chunk of the 1.4 million that turned in originally.

If AEW wants to get back to those numbers Tony Khan will have to spend tens of millions and it will probably not even last more than a few weeks. It sure as hell will not happen with this current roster, no matter how many "PPV quality" Dynamite cards they advertise ahead of shows. What they're doing now isn't as good as you think..


----------



## Cult03

AEWMoxley said:


> Where are all of those people here who disagreed with me? I told everyone it wouldn't make it past this season.
> 
> The writing was on the wall before the pandemic. Interest was plummeting at a massive rate.


I mean, I'm not an NFL fan at all and I don't claim to know the first thing about it. But surely the extenuating circumstances around this means you can't really claim it as a win? Nobody could have predicted the competition would have halted by a pandemic shutting down the entire globes sporting events.


----------



## The Wood

My favorite of the ants in Chikara was always Piss Ant.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, the XFL shutting down is due to this pandemic. The shock and awe tactics of Vince McMahon were possibly going to work. I think that's why he has no problem folding it instead of being his usual stubborn self. He got past the embarrassment stage.


----------



## bdon

No. XFL was on its way to folding shop. He has the built-in excuse this time, so he gets to save face this time around.

Football in America is NCAA or NFL. There is no room for more football.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No. XFL was on its way to folding shop. He has the built-in excuse this time, so he gets to save face this time around.
> 
> Football in America is NCAA or NFL. There is no room for more football.


XFL was doing better ratings than NXT and AEW as well as what hockey does.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

RapShepard said:


> XFL was doing better ratings than NXT and AEW as well as what hockey does.


I read a well thought out scenario about Vince and the XFL. It broke down the numbers that Vince had from thebrgining to finance up till the season was placed on hold. There was still $350 million of Vince' s initial funds available. The belief is with WWE taking a huge hit with the lack of Wrestlemania revenue and factor in he is friends with Trump and probably has a better timeline than Trump gives to the media, that Vince pulled the plug as he knows that WWE will need the extra fubfd to get through this extended down period. It is a logical thesis.


----------



## RapShepard

Bloody Warpath said:


> I read a well thought out scenario about Vince and the XFL. It broke down the numbers that Vince had from thebrgining to finance up till the season was placed on hold. There was still $350 million of Vince' s initial funds available. The belief is with WWE taking a huge hit with the lack of Wrestlemania revenue and factor in he is friends with Trump and probably has a better timeline than Trump gives to the media, that Vince pulled the plug as he knows that WWE will need the extra fubfd to get through this extended down period. It is a logical thesis.


That makes sense to me


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> XFL was doing better ratings than NXT and AEW as well as what hockey does.


And the numbers were falling massively. There just isn’t a place for more football in America.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> And the numbers were falling massively. There just isn’t a place for more football in America.


You guys need to get on the Rugby train. Not Union, Rugby League. Vince should have spent his money reformatting the XFL to become a rugby competition. Get the next best athletes in a far more entertaining, brutal, skillful, athletic game. America could be huge for rugby league


----------



## Mike E

NathanMayberry said:


> What you're saying is not logical or rooted in reality.
> 
> The most number of people that have ever watched AEW, did so on October 2nd and that was due to Khan and TNT spending millions in advertising for their debut. They had billboards in Time Square, ads in movies previews and even during Raw. Viewership has declined and has come nowhere close to that since. Having shitty characters like Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss and guys like Jack Thwagger fighting your champion has gone a long way in permanently eroding a large chunk of the 1.4 million that turned in originally.
> 
> If AEW wants to get back to those numbers Tony Khan will have to spend tens of millions and it will probably not even last more than a few weeks. It sure as hell will not happen with this current roster, no matter how many "PPV quality" Dynamite cards they advertise ahead of shows. What they're doing now isn't as good as you think..


These are not the opinions of most, the thoughts about AEW are overwhelming positive everywhere I've turned other than when I've found these threads. The roster is fine and has a lot of diversity, of course I'm not a fan of everyone on the roster but these rosters are put together for everyone not just you or myself. I enjoy the wrestlers i like and accept the others for what they are. AEW absolutely will gain viewership as time goes along, at least that's my opinion. If you don't think so that's ok, you're allowed to have your opinion as well. Time will tell which side is right. As I said before AEW has way more viewers than the ratings say, most people now especially people 40 and under are using torrent sites and streaming sites to watch content. Also the ratings don't take into account the DVR numbers. Alot of you guys are kinda irrational and take this stuff to seriously. Wrestling is just a scripted TV show thats fake. Its entertaining and that's what its meant to be.


----------



## Danielallen1410

It’s weird that in America tv ratings are such a big thing, it isn’t over here in the UK, I’m. Or even sure where I would find our highest rated shows, why is it such a big deal in the US?


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> It’s weird that in America tv ratings are such a big thing, it isn’t over here in the UK, I’m. Or even sure where I would find our highest rated shows, why is it such a big deal in the US?


Its a big deal for American wrestling fans who feel ratings are still important following the MNW 20 years ago. 

Also gives people a reason to bash a product. Because people they've never met aren't watching it.


----------



## Aedubya

I think its because everything has to be bigger & therefore apparently better in their eyes


----------



## .christopher.

Just because wrestling as a whole is doing terrible numbers doesnt mean you should downplay ratings.

Ratings will always be important for any TV show.

I dont know why you don't think they're important here in England. Ratings are why soaps splash millions on big stunts, and why they sometimes do live episodes. Ratings are why the BBC flogged Jonathan Ross off for Graham Norton. Ratings are why Sky/BT show more United/City/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal games than any other English side. They want, and need, viewers.


----------



## rbl85

He didn't say that ratings are not important but that the people who Watch the shows don't give a fuck about the ratings.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

.christopher. said:


> Just because wrestling as a whole is doing terrible numbers doesnt mean you should downplay ratings.
> 
> Ratings will always be important for any TV show.
> 
> I dont know why you don't think they're important here in England. Ratings are why soaps splash millions on big stunts, and why they sometimes do live episodes. Ratings are why the BBC flogged Jonathan Ross off for Graham Norton. Ratings are why Sky/BT show more United/City/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal games than any other English side. They want, and need, viewers.


And tell us why this is important to you.

armchair analysts running around freely on WF, writing essays that maybe 20 other people will see or bother to read.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> XFL was doing better ratings than NXT and AEW as well as what hockey does.


They were dropping and cost was much much much higher for XFL then NXT or AEW. Vince needs a tv deal making at least 150 million a year within the next few years. He saw that not happening with ratings dropping and networks struggling and likely not going to recover for a few years. So Vince had decided to cut his loses now.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I see it in the Raw thread. I see it here. Marks blaming the virus for bad tv ratings. It's false. Look at TV ratings from other TV shows:



> The season finale of NBC's _Manifest_ drew its largest same-day audience since its premiere in January and helped NBC lead all three hours of primetime among adults 18-49. CBS' lineup also recorded more solid ratings, while ABC and The Fox aired mostly repeats.
> _Manifest_'s 4.58 million viewers were the most for the show since the Jan. 6 premiere drew 4.73 million, and it improved week to week in adults 18-49 to a 0.8 rating, tying its second-best mark of the season. _The Voice_ (9.49 million viewers, 1.5 in adults 18-49) was down some from last week (9.77 million, 1.7) — but up by 25 percent in both measures over the same night a year ago. It also led primetime across the board.
> At CBS, _The Neighborhood_ (7.27 million viewers, 1.0 in adults 18-49) nearly matched the season highs for its last episode March 16. _Bob Hearts Abishola_ (6.64 million, 0.8) topped its season average, and both _All Rise_ (6.08 million, 0.7) and _Bull_ (7.13 million, 0.7) are eyeing season highs in total viewers if the fast national numbers hold.











TV Ratings: ‘Manifest’ Finale Grows as NBC Rules Monday


The season finale of ‘Manifest’ on Monday, April 6, drew the show’s biggest audience since its January premiere, as NBC topped a rerun-heavy night.




www.hollywoodreporter.com





Network TV is doing better ratings than they've done all year. Because people have to stay home and have nothing else to do other than watch TV. Not everyone is watching the news. Wrestling, despite being original content, is doing terrible.


----------



## rbl85

When will you understand that without fans a wrestling show lose all the emotions, so it's less interesting to watch.


----------



## imthegame19

Danielallen1410 said:


> It’s weird that in America tv ratings are such a big thing, it isn’t over here in the UK, I’m. Or even sure where I would find our highest rated shows, why is it such a big deal in the US?


Monday Night Wars gave fans the mentality that they matter. Like anything how good a product is opinion based. So when WCW or WWE fans argue what show is better.


They can point to ratings to back up their opinions. Claiming their product is better and more popular. To back up their opinion of the product. WCW fans did it when they were winning and so did WWE fans.

So these days fans are doing same thing with AEW and NXT. Like we see on here with AEW beating NXT every week. When that happens you have WWE fans come on here and say well Raw/Smackdown are doing 1 to 1.4 million viewers more so AEW still sucks lol. When in reality AEW would look like idiots if they did anywhere close to that number. Since they are locked into 4 year deal at 45 million a year when they could be making 150-200 million if they had those Ratings. So if anything AEW doesn't expect those Ratings to peak anywhere near that level or grow a lot until 22-23.


But it's used to justify opinion like when NXT has beat AEW a few times. NXT fans and haters will say they are done and gonna go out of business now. While AEW fans say it's cuz they had main roster guys on the show or put on Takeover level show. Now some of that stuff is true and some of that is ridiculous.

But basically fans use success such as ratings&attendance to justify their opinion on the product. Or even when a actual AEW fan doesn't like a show and it does bad rating or wrestler they don't like does a bad quarter. They can be like SEE I was right that was bad decision or this wrestler sucked.


In this day and age ratings matter more to fans then actual companies. Yes numbers company like AEW will look at minute by minute as data. To see what's working and what's not and to try to make adjustments. But they also don't give up on something if it's not working right away or on a wrestler if he's not doing a good rating right away either. WWE does this sure as well but Vince opinion is really what matters the most there.


Overall with this guaranteed tv money the ratings don't matter as much as long as they are consistent. TNT paid AEW 45 million a year to do 800-950 rating consistently and top 10 in 18-49 demo. They were doing that before this pandemic. Fox is paying 250 million a year WWE for Smackdown to do around 2.5 million viewers and USA is paying WWE 280 million a year to do around 2.3 million viewers. With them bringing the Network top 3 in 18-49 demos. Yes networks and companies both want ratings to be better. So they all make more money. But it's not really a big deal or end of the world if it's not. It's mostly fans use to justify opinions.


That's why you gotta laugh off trolls trying to bash AEW when ratings drop. In reality all business is suffering right now. Raw, Smackdown, AEW&NXT are all likely to see record low ratings over the next month. So haters of both shows will be out in full force so please just ignore it. Since it's all big waste of time.


----------



## imthegame19

Randy Lahey said:


> I see it in the Raw thread. I see it here. Marks blaming the virus for bad tv ratings. It's false. Look at TV ratings from other TV shows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TV Ratings: ‘Manifest’ Finale Grows as NBC Rules Monday
> 
> 
> The season finale of ‘Manifest’ on Monday, April 6, drew the show’s biggest audience since its January premiere, as NBC topped a rerun-heavy night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hollywoodreporter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Network TV is doing better ratings than they've done all year. Because people have to stay home and have nothing else to do other than watch TV. Not everyone is watching the news. Wrestling, despite being original content, is doing terrible.


Virus is also causing these shows to put on lesser product. These empty arena shows are much more boring. Not to mention you don't have fully staff of wrestlers. You also can't do all the matches and angles you want. Like AEW Blood&Guts War Games match for example. Its not like tv shows that are the same no matter what. Not to mention If you pay any attention to ratings. You would know news shows are doing way better then they were. So it's 100 percent legit reason why numbers for all shows are down. If you disagree well you are clueless sorry.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> No. XFL was on its way to folding shop. He has the built-in excuse this time, so he gets to save face this time around.
> 
> Football in America is NCAA or NFL. There is no room for more football.


I don't really agree. The XFL is (was?) never going to be bigger than the NFL but you can create an exciting alternative that can be profitable. Especially if the XFL got to a point where it lasted a few years and could attract big star players that people want to see to their franchises.



Cult03 said:


> You guys need to get on the Rugby train. Not Union, Rugby League. Vince should have spent his money reformatting the XFL to become a rugby competition. Get the next best athletes in a far more entertaining, brutal, skillful, athletic game. America could be huge for rugby league


Needs more support but I agree. If Vince brought rugby league to America he'd probably be much better off plus he'd have no real competition. Vince's first step could be to get the Toronto Wolfpac on board with Sonny Bill-Williams and all those ex NRL players and slowly build from there. I don't know how much he dropped into the XFL this time around but surely for the amount he paid he could start a 10 team rugby league competition lead by a strong USA team filled with ex NRL players and a strong Canadian team which would be the Wolfpac.



MJF said:


> Its a big deal for American wrestling fans who feel ratings are still important following the MNW 20 years ago.
> 
> Also gives people a reason to bash a product. Because people they've never met aren't watching it.


Funny that the AEW fans celebrate and fist pump when the ratings are good but when they're bad the ratings don't matter and are only used to bash a product.

Ratings can tell what is good, what is bad, who people want to see and what they don't want to see. That alone is very important information.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Funny that the AEW fans celebrate and fist pump when the ratings are good but when they're bad the ratings don't matter and are only used to bash a product.
> 
> Ratings can tell what is good, what is bad, who people want to see and what they don't want to see. That alone is very important information.


I'm a wrestling fan, first and foremost, have been for 30 years. And I don't first pump when ratings are 'good' - in the context of the companies infancy, I congratulate them when they get, what I'd consider, a decent number. 

But ratings, whether high, medium or low, don't bother me. I don't care what other people are watching on a Wednesday night. If I enjoy what I watch, I'll watch it. I don't think ratings particularly dictate whether a show is working or a show is good or not either. 

Do you not think that people, who are usually critical of a product, jump on the product when ratings are lower than the previous week as a way of saying "I told you so"?


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't really agree. The XFL is (was?) never going to be bigger than the NFL but you can create an exciting alternative that can be profitable. Especially if the XFL got to a point where it lasted a few years and could attract big star players that people want to see to their franchises.
> 
> 
> 
> Needs more support but I agree. If Vince brought rugby league to America he'd probably be much better off plus he'd have no real competition. Vince's first step could be to get the Toronto Wolfpac on board with Sonny Bill-Williams and all those ex NRL players and slowly build from there. I don't know how much he dropped into the XFL this time around but surely for the amount he paid he could start a 10 team rugby league competition lead by a strong USA team filled with ex NRL players and a strong Canadian team which would be the Wolfpac.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that the AEW fans celebrate and fist pump when the ratings are good but when they're bad the ratings don't matter and are only used to bash a product.
> 
> *Ratings can tell what is good, what is bad, who people want to see and what they don't want to see. *That alone is very important information.


When you see which shows do the best ratings in my country….i'm not so sure about that XD


----------



## bdon

Just so I’m clear here since the thought popped in my head: ratings don’t tell which product is better, but when AEW loses a half million viewers, it is due to the product, correct? When AEW beats NXT by large percentages, it isn’t due to the NXT product being worse, right? And all of that means that NXT and AEW is a worse show than Raw and Smackdown, right?

Fact is, AEW is the best weekly wrestling show. If not AEW, then NXT is the best wrestling show. Yet combined, they can not touch Raw and Smackdown due to brand loyalties.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't really agree. The XFL is (was?) never going to be bigger than the NFL but you can create an exciting alternative that can be profitable. Especially if the XFL got to a point where it lasted a few years and could attract big star players that people want to see to their franchises.
> 
> 
> 
> Needs more support but I agree. If Vince brought rugby league to America he'd probably be much better off plus he'd have no real competition. Vince's first step could be to get the Toronto Wolfpac on board with Sonny Bill-Williams and all those ex NRL players and slowly build from there. I don't know how much he dropped into the XFL this time around but surely for the amount he paid he could start a 10 team rugby league competition lead by a strong USA team filled with ex NRL players and a strong Canadian team which would be the Wolfpac.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that the AEW fans celebrate and fist pump when the ratings are good but when they're bad the ratings don't matter and are only used to bash a product.
> 
> Ratings can tell what is good, what is bad, who people want to see and what they don't want to see. That alone is very important information.


The problem is that football in the US has a very specific set of rules. Anyone that is willing to sit through the XFL and all of its different rules is the same type of fans as those that would willingly sit through a wrestler shitting the middle of the ring. It doesn’t have to be good, because they’re such fans of the sport, they’ll tune in no matter what.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Cult03 said:


> Tag them or respond to them. Otherwise you're lying


Yeah let me go back to the first AEW ratings thread and find them.


Cult03 said:


> That's all you had to say. I forgive you


I will never apologize for being correct. Also it is cute that you want to partial quote me. "I was wrong" came from that there was one episode where AEW won by NINE THOUSAND viewers and I originally stated it was EIGHT THOUSAND viewers in a previous post. That was November 6th 2019 episodes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Just so I’m clear here since the thought popped in my head: ratings don’t tell which product is better, but when AEW loses a half million viewers, it is due to the product, correct? When AEW beats NXT by large percentages, it isn’t due to the NXT product being worse, right? And all of that means that NXT and AEW is a worse show than Raw and Smackdown, right?
> 
> Fact is, AEW is the best weekly wrestling show. If not AEW, then NXT is the best wrestling show. Yet combined, they can not touch Raw and Smackdown due to brand loyalties.


If AEW lost half a million viewers in a week it would imply that they did something to turn them off. For example the debut episode of AEW with the 1.5 million people or whatever it was that dropped 600,000 by the next episode gives fans, critics and the company some insight into the debut event. Losing 600,000 people would show that AEW did not have a good first showing to all 1.5 million people.

Ratings can also work for individual segments so a rating might hit 1 million people when Moxley is on but then drop to 500,000 when Marko Stunt comes out. That would show that 500,000 people don't give a fuck about Marko. It provides good data on who is good, who is bad, who the people like, who they don't like etc.

AEW and NXT are the best shows for internet smart marks but for a casual wrestling fan who likes wrestling for the male oriented story lines and doesn't care about match quality is going to go with RAW or Smackdown because they're the easiest to access and easiest to follow.


----------



## bdon

Raw and Smackdown are garbage, though. Lol


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW lost half a million viewers in a week it would imply that they did something to turn them off. For example the debut episode of AEW with the 1.5 million people or whatever it was that dropped 600,000 by the next episode gives fans, critics and the company some insight into the debut event. Losing 600,000 people would show that AEW did not have a good first showing to all 1.5 million people.
> 
> Ratings can also work for individual segments so a rating might hit 1 million people when Moxley is on but then drop to 500,000 when Marko Stunt comes out. That would show that 500,000 people don't give a fuck about Marko. It provides good data on who is good, who is bad, who the people like, who they don't like etc.
> 
> AEW and NXT are the best shows for internet smart marks but for a casual wrestling fan who likes wrestling for the male oriented story lines and doesn't care about match quality is going to go with RAW or Smackdown because they're the easiest to access and easiest to follow.


im casual, and I find raw and Smackdown unwatchable, nxt boring, aew the best of a bad bunch. All have their issues.

Raw and Smackdown I cannot stand the aesthetics, all too glitzy, full of leds, I cannot stand the fact that they will not take any notice of fans, the laziness of main event booking, the only storyline I’ve enjoyed oddly is Ziggler and Otis. People who just aren’t being used right and you know could be a star of another Company.

NXT, it’s just ok much wrestling for me and not enough storyline.

aew was similar to Nxt the first few months but were starting to strike a balance just before the pandemic. I still have many things I don’t like though, too many tag matches, too many near falls on regular television matches etc.

ive been watching the early 96 wwf and wcw and although they had a few too many dQ finishes and shitty characters (mainly wwf on the latter) I felt the pacing of their shows are much more watchable.


----------



## Randy Lahey

imthegame19 said:


> . So it's 100 percent legit reason why numbers for all shows are down.


All wrestling shows are down. Non-wrestling shows are up. Explain that. There is a much larger available viewing audience due to nobody having anything to do outside their home. These people are watching TV. The fact they ARE NOT watching wrestling is a huge issue.


----------



## Randy Lahey

MJF said:


> Its a big deal for American wrestling fans who feel ratings are still important following the MNW 20 years ago.
> 
> Also gives people a reason to bash a product. Because people they've never met aren't watching it.


Ratings are important because they dictate which shows get cancelled, and which shows get renewed. In fact, some shows that do good ratings still get cancelled because the shows become too expensive for a TV network to buy. With AEW, I don't think they will have the issue. TNT isn't paying that much relatively speaking for the show.

USA and Raw. Huge problem. USA and Raw agreed to a 5 year deal (2019-2024) in June of 2018. From June 2017-June 2018 (the year leading up to the renewal), Raw averaged around 3.3 million viewers. They are now averaging around 2.2 mil viewers. They've lost 33% of their audience since they signed that deal. They are continuing to bleed viewers.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

The Wood said:


> My favorite of the ants in Chikara was always Piss Ant.


The Colony was the only gimmick that I have enjoyed Cassidy in. It worked well in the over the top environment of Chikara.


----------



## imthegame19

Randy Lahey said:


> All wrestling shows are down. Non-wrestling shows are up. Explain that. There is a much larger available viewing audience due to nobody having anything to do outside their home. These people are watching TV. The fact they ARE NOT watching wrestling is a huge issue.


I did already clearly you can't read. Ok I'll do it one more time. Wrestling is down because it's less entertaining. Why? Cuz..

1.Empty arena is boring
2.Whole roster isn't available
3.Not able to do planned matches and storylines they want to do.
4.Have to tape 6-7 weeks of tv In 3 or 4 days and guys available you only want to do so many matches etc


This isn't rocket science here. Look at last week Dynamite card.

Omega vs Trent
Shida vs Anna Jay
Archer vs Stunt
Dustin&QT vs 8&9
Cody/Darby vs Spears/Sammy

Archer vs jobber
Shida vs Baker
Omega/Nakazawa vs Best Friends
Brodie Lee vs Jobber
Cody vs Spears

So before Pandemic what of these matches would you see on tv? Maybe Omega/Trent? Marko Stunt sure has heck hasnt had singles on Dynamite. Maybe the main event tag match? Maybe Cody/Spears or Baker/Shida. Even Cody/Spears is a reach or Tag match. Since last week was first time Spears wrestled on Dynamite this year. Now look at next week card.

Moxley/Hager
Britt Baker vs jobber
Sammy Guevara vs jobber
Chuck Taylor vs Kip Sabian
Archer vs Cabana

So again in normal week you would see Moxley/Hager. Maybe Archer/Cabana but id make a case that neither Cabana or Spears would be in this tournament if things were normal. Raw had similar weak show last week as well.


Seriously dude it's not like they are putting on Blood and Guts match here in front of 11 thousand people. It's easy to see why they lost 150-250 viewers with these shows and why people will rather watch news or tv show finales live instead. When you easily watch these Dynamites and fast forward through them the next day. That should be all the evidence you need end of discussion.


----------



## bdon

What shows, not on basic cable and not news related, are doing well in the ratings?


----------



## AEW_19

I think AEW will take a break after the tapings finish because someone from WWE just tested positive for COVID-19.


----------



## qntntgood

AEW_19 said:


> I think AEW will take a break after the tapings finish because someone from WWE just tested positive for COVID-19.


If I'm not mistaken,aew has already stopped taping,from the reports I read earlier this week.wwe is already has their p.r team on this report,trust me when I say this the dirt sheets will be banned from the wwe locker room after this.


----------



## Dickhead1990

AEW_19 said:


> We've been starved of big time wrestling for a long time in the UK. It will be a bastard to try and get tickets if they do end up running a PPV here.


I would love to see AEW here too and I know that they were going to announce something for the UK. I'm worried the Covid-19 has ruined that for us. Hopefully they'll come in Autumn and do a Saturday PPV!


----------



## AEW_19

qntntgood said:


> If I'm not mistaken,aew has already stopped taping,from the reports I read earlier this week.wwe is already has their p.r team on this report,trust me when I say this the dirt sheets will be banned from the wwe locker room after this.


Yeah, I meant once the final taping airs in May, if this is still going on, I think they probably won't risk it.


----------



## AEW_19

I think it was always going to be announced for the end of the year but you're correct, it could delay it. I would guess maybe the start of 2021.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

The show is just bad lately and matt hardy / luke harper are a huge flop. Dark Order should been scrapped back in december.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

CenaBoy4Life said:


> The show is just bad lately and matt hardy / luke harper are a huge flop. Dark Order should been scrapped back in december.


dark order should've never happened.


----------



## qntntgood

AEW_19 said:


> Yeah, I meant once the final taping airs in May, if this is still going on, I think they probably won't risk it.


Wwe's P.R team didn't help the matter at all. 








WWE Announces On-Screen Talent Not on Roster Tested Positive for COVID-19


WWE has confirmed that an employee who appears on screen during its weekly television broadcasts tested positive for the coronavirus...




www.google.com


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Just so I’m clear here since the thought popped in my head: ratings don’t tell which product is better, but when AEW loses a half million viewers, it is due to the product, correct? When AEW beats NXT by large percentages, it isn’t due to the NXT product being worse, right? And all of that means that NXT and AEW is a worse show than Raw and Smackdown, right?
> 
> Fact is, AEW is the best weekly wrestling show. If not AEW, then NXT is the best wrestling show. Yet combined, they can not touch Raw and Smackdown due to brand loyalties.


Objectively speaking yes it would and does mean AEW and NXT are seen as worst shows than Raw and SmackDown. How great can those show really be objectively when they're getting less than half the viewers? If people felt that NXT and AEW provided this vastly superior product then they would watch it. But they don't feel that way so they don't.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

optikk sucks said:


> dark order should've never happened.


Remember the bucks cried and left twitter over criticism of this shit group.


----------



## Danielallen1410

CenaBoy4Life said:


> The show is just bad lately and matt hardy / luke harper are a huge flop. Dark Order should been scrapped back in december.


would like to see the crowd reaction to both before declaring them a flop as a hot crowd can make something far more entertaining.

Not that I disagree with you that neither are entertaining currently.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> And tell us why this is important to you.
> 
> armchair analysts running around freely on WF, writing essays that maybe 20 other people will see or bother to read.


I read it. I liked it.

Ratings are important because they are important to advertisers. It’s the perception of their validity as a metric that makes them important. If your relationship with your network is dictated by how many ad spots you can sell, and for how much, then, yes, ratings are going to factor in. Actually, more important than the ratings is the result. We can respond to the surface, but the reality is that AEW could be selling way more ads than what the rating indicates (which is great for them), or they could be selling way less for a show with that viewership would be expected to (which is horrible for them). And we don’t know what is going on there. Dave doesn’t know what is going on there. We are just responding to an extrapolated number and comparing it to other wrestling.

Where the ratings become trivial is when you start taking them so damn literally. Meltzer is breaking down this thing to 400 viewers and acting like it is an exact science. It’s basically polling. You ring up a few people, try and find a pattern, then make educated guesses based on that pattern. But what polling really tells you is how many people are willing to be polled.

Houses with 50+ viewers could have grandkids over. Houses with 18 year olds could leave the TV on by accident. Friends might come over. NXT could technically have been the more watched show every week, it’s just not reflected by people who have boxes (unlikely, but technically possible).

And TV habits have changed. Talk shows used to care a lot about ratings, but now it is largely about generating content for YouTube. Streaming services are taking over, and most networks have a streaming option. At some point, streaming services are going to come together like the new cable, and you’ll have Netflix, Disney+, Peacock, ESPN+, etc. as “channels” on it. The idea that people are going to be watching TNT live is, quite honestly, antiquated TO A DEGREE.

It isn’t antiquated in the sense that that is what they are being paid for. It’s not antiquated in the sense that urgent programming can still bring people to live TV. It isn’t antiquated in the sense that 100 million homes or whatever still have cable and can be reached.

We’re in a transition period, and the ratings both do and don’t matter, depending on your perspective, what your goals are or what element of the business you are talking about.



Randy Lahey said:


> I see it in the Raw thread. I see it here. Marks blaming the virus for bad tv ratings. It's false. Look at TV ratings from other TV shows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TV Ratings: ‘Manifest’ Finale Grows as NBC Rules Monday
> 
> 
> The season finale of ‘Manifest’ on Monday, April 6, drew the show’s biggest audience since its January premiere, as NBC topped a rerun-heavy night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hollywoodreporter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Network TV is doing better ratings than they've done all year. Because people have to stay home and have nothing else to do other than watch TV. Not everyone is watching the news. Wrestling, despite being original content, is doing terrible.


Exactly. I see the people who were blaming the news seem to have stopped doing so. Now they are blaming the lack of crowds. I’m iffy on that. Obviously crowds add energy, but it’s not like the crowds were particularly hot, large or charming. Hardcore audiences are kind of obnoxious. I think it is more exposing the work. And I think people tuning out “because of the crowds” is dangerous, because I don’t think crowds are going to come back anytime soon, nor do I think viewers will necessarily come back when the crowds do. I think it’s kind of like a drunk uncle dancing at a wedding now, and now that people know he’s drunk, they’re not going to give him attention.


----------



## AEW_19

Jericho is live on Facebook for anyone that is bored



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=216300039628737


----------



## AEW_19

Talking about Pineapple Pete


----------



## NathanMayberry

Randy Lahey said:


> Ratings are important because they dictate which shows get cancelled, and which shows get renewed. In fact, some shows that do good ratings still get cancelled because the shows become too expensive for a TV network to buy. With AEW, I don't think they will have the issue. TNT isn't paying that much relatively speaking for the show.
> 
> USA and Raw. Huge problem. USA and Raw agreed to a 5 year deal (2019-2024) in June of 2018. From June 2017-June 2018 (the year leading up to the renewal), Raw averaged around 3.3 million viewers. They are now averaging around 2.2 mil viewers. They've lost 33% of their audience since they signed that deal. They are continuing to bleed viewers.


This is a misunderstanding that a lot of people seem to have with the WWE-USA Network partnership. 

Raw is the #1 show on Cable and because of RAW, USA is the #1 network on Cable. That's what they are paying Raw for. Do you know the last time USA wasn't #1? It was when Raw was on Spike TV. Raw may have dropped a lot of viewers , so have all shows, but it still ranks better than anything else. That's what determined how much they got and how much they will get when that deal is up.

TNT gave AEW their deal for "sports-related" content. They want Basketball-Wrestling-Basketball. The Dynamite deal is scheduled to end around the time their NBA deal is. Whether or not they keep Dynamite will be contingent on where they want to go as a network. Its similar to Fox and Smackdown. Their plan was for a Football Thursday - Smackdown Friday - College Football Saturday - NFL Sunday. Networks don't just get shows for ratings, they do it to corner certain demographics as well.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> This is a misunderstanding that a lot of people seem to have with the WWE-USA Network partnership.
> 
> Raw is the #1 show on Cable and because of RAW, USA is the #1 network on Cable. That's what they are paying Raw for. Do you know the last time USA wasn't #1? It was when Raw was on Spike TV. Raw may have dropped a lot of viewers , so have all shows, but it still ranks better than anything else. That's what determined how much they got and how much they will get when that deal is up.
> 
> TNT gave AEW their deal for "sports-related" content. They want Basketball-Wrestling-Basketball. The Dynamite deal is scheduled to end around the time their NBA deal is. Whether or not they keep Dynamite will be contingent on where they want to go as a network. Its similar to Fox and Smackdown. Their plan was for a Football Thursday - Smackdown Friday - College Football Saturday - NFL Sunday. Networks don't just get shows for ratings, they do it to corner certain demographics as well.


Boom. This is also why NXT isn’t in trouble just because it can be perceived to be losing to AEW. WWE have so much pull with USA, and the show still ranks, so it’s a pretty safe bet to keep going, because they don’t want to upset that WWE relationship.


----------



## The Wood

SmackDown just got 2.31 million viewers. This is down slightly from 2.38. Still wanna blame the news?


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> SmackDown just got 2.31 million viewers. This is down slightly from 2.38. Still wanna blame the news?


so they were down?


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> so they were down?


By an estimated 70k.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> By an estimated 70k.





The Wood said:


> By an estimated 70k.


and aew gained an estimated 7k so what’s your point?


----------



## shandcraig

Now that the DON ppv is for sure canceled in may they should try to make it happen in june if events are lifted but at this point i guess that wont happen.


----------



## Randy Lahey

NathanMayberry said:


> Raw is the #1 show on Cable and because of RAW, USA is the #1 network on Cable. That's what they are paying Raw for. Do you know the last time USA wasn't #1? It was when Raw was on Spike TV. Raw may have dropped a lot of viewers , so have all shows, but it still ranks better than anything else. That's what determined how much they got and how much they will get when that deal is up.
> 
> .


USA isn’t the #1 Network on Cable. They may have been when Raw was doing monster ratings, but they aren’t now.



> USA, which was the most watched cable network for almost a decade, slipped another spot from No. 4 last year to No. 5 in total viewers (-18%). In adults 18-49, it remained No. 2 behind Fox News but was down 16%.











Cable Ratings 2019: Fox News Tops Total Viewers, ESPN Wins 18-49 Demo As Entertainment Networks Slide


Ad-supported cable business’ fortunes continue to decline unless it’s live programming – news and sports. Cable news networks Fox News and MSNBC and sports-focused ESPN repeated as 1-2-3 atop all b…




www.google.com


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW probably will be able to run Daily's Place in late May as Trump will bully red state Governors to open up their States. And Florida's DeSantis is battling with Georgia's Kemp to see who is furthest up Trump's ass. However it would be reckless to run a show with a crowd just because they legally can. 

At best I think they'd run a audienceless show - with wrestlers in the audience area like the did the first Daily's place show without fans. 

First chance for fans in the stands might be NFL to try it. So if AEW wanted cover to try a crowded show they'll probably have to wait for All Out in early September.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> and aew gained an estimated 7k so what’s your point?


Down from 900k to 700k? They've taken a much larger hit than WWE programming has. Raw's lost about the same amount of viewers from a much larger pool. And people were wanting to blame the news. Well, I guess people only watch the news instead of wrestling on Wednesdays then. 



shandcraig said:


> Now that the DON ppv is for sure canceled in may they should try to make it happen in june if events are lifted but at this point i guess that wont happen.


I really doubt this clears up by June. I haven't been paying too close attention and am just trying to do my things and follow the acceptable guidelines over here, but from what has blown my way in the wind, it looks doubtful that live events will really pick up until a vaccine is found, and that is probably going to be years, barring any mutation of the virus or any other virus springing up in the meantime. 



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW probably will be able to run Daily's Place in late May as Trump will bully red state Governors to open up their States. And Florida's DeSantis is battling with Georgia's Kemp to see who is furthest up Trump's ass. However it would be reckless to run a show with a crowd just because they legally can.
> 
> At best I think they'd run a audienceless show - with wrestlers in the audience area like the did the first Daily's place show without fans.
> 
> First chance for fans in the stands might be NFL to try it. So if AEW wanted cover to try a crowded show they'll probably have to wait for All Out in early September.


Again, I haven't really been following the American news, and I know Trump is an ignorant cunt talking out both sides, but it seems INSANE that he would clear live events in this climate. He might WANT shows up and running, just like we all WANT this virus to just go away, but I really doubt he bullies anyone into making this pandemic worse, as opposed to just implementing ineffective measures to stop its spread. He won't go backwards on it. 

And it is PR suicide for companies to run and risk being part of spreading this shit to the ignorant. You'd think that a wrestling promotion that at least pretends to be politically engaged would just refuse to run.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Biggest gain in viewers on the April 1st episode was the world title match promo. Biggest loser was the main event tag of Cody/Allin vs Spears/Guevara.

They should do more promo packages over the next few weeks/months. Matches don't work very well in front of an empty crowd. Those UFC style video packages, like the ones they did for Moxley/Hager, were great. If they go with Jericho as Moxley's next challenger, they need to do a couple of those every week.

Give MJF some promo time as well, while we're at it. We don't need to see absolute geeks like Nakazawa in meaningless matches.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> *Biggest gain in viewers on the April 1st episode was the world title match promo*. Biggest loser was the main event tag of Cody/Allin vs Spears/Guevara.
> 
> They should do more promo packages over the next few weeks/months. Matches don't work very well in front of an empty crowd. Those UFC style video packages, like the ones they did for Moxley/Hager, were great. If they go with Jericho as Moxley's next challenger, they need to do a couple of those every week.


This quarter had also the debut of Archer against Stunt (+26k)

Shida vs Jay did +25K.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> This quarter had also the debut of Archer against Stunt (+26k)
> 
> Shida vs Jay did +25K.


Archer vs Stunt was a quick squash match. Those are fine.

Those long matches featuring a bunch of geeks, like that tag match they did between the best friends and Omega/Nak, are just pure cancer. There's no need to trot that garbage out there.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> This quarter had also the debut of Archer against Stunt (+26k)
> 
> Shida vs Jay did +25K.


Not surprised anything involving Anna Jay saw a rise. 

In viewers of course.


----------



## The Wood

MJF said:


> Not surprised anything involving Anna Jay saw a rise.
> 
> In viewers of course.


Excellent post.


----------



## Prosper

Once things blow over, I predict that AEW will be fine. You guys have to remember that the 900k people they were drawing weekly are mostly niche fans who have been loyal. They shouldn’t have a problem getting those people back. Especially since 95% of those people were watching because they finally had an alternative to WWE. If those people want to watch wrestling and if they are still interested in the sport in a general sense, then they will come back and watch. AEW crowds are always passionate and rabid for a reason. Because they’re passionate about it. It may take a couple weeks to get back to 900k but they’ll get back.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> Once things blow over, I predict that AEW will be fine. You guys have to remember that the 900k people they were drawing weekly are mostly niche fans who have been loyal. They shouldn’t have a problem getting those people back. Especially since 95% of those people were watching because they finally had an alternative to WWE. If those people want to watch wrestling and if they are still interested in the sport in a general sense, then they will come back and watch. AEW crowds are always passionate and rabid for a reason. Because they’re passionate about it. It may take a couple weeks to get back to 900k but they’ll get back.


I think you're way too optimistic here. I don't think either company is going to recover all those fans, especially not in a few weeks. Those fans can't be that loyal if they're not going to watch. The longer they go without watching the more likely that find something else to become a fan of.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Once things blow over, I predict that AEW will be fine. You guys have to remember that the 900k people they were drawing weekly are mostly niche fans who have been loyal. They shouldn’t have a problem getting those people back. Especially since 95% of those people were watching because they finally had an alternative to WWE. If those people want to watch wrestling and if they are still interested in the sport in a general sense, then they will come back and watch. AEW crowds are always passionate and rabid for a reason. Because they’re passionate about it. It may take a couple weeks to get back to 900k but they’ll get back.


Hmm, I think it's going to be a bit more complex than that. These shows aren't the most engaging. Sure, you can blame the live crowds for that if you want, but more and more they are looking like WWE with this mad scramble to put out any sort of content. Sometimes they look sillier and far worse than WWE. I think the people drifting away are going to be harder to get back than people think. 

Their best chance is a big re-launch campaign. But honestly, are people going to bite twice? And that could realistically be a year, two, maybe even three down the track. Will AEW retain its time slot through this entire pandemic should live events not be allowed? Or will they get shuffled to a later slot, hoping that fans will follow, so they can air something that holds up a bit better under these conditions? Do they drop them entirely? Vince has pulled his money from the XFL, there's no guarantee that Shad Khan won't do the same with AEW should there be no end in sight to this thing.


----------



## rbl85

AEW is the show who's doing the best ratings for TNT so i Don't see why TNT would put something else in that time slot.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> AEW is the show who's doing the best ratings for TNT so i Don't see why TNT would put something else in that time slot.


Yeah, I'm talking down the track. Those ratings may not hold like people assume they will. The shows have been generally awful and they've basically taped a bunch of meaningless matches. The longer this goes on, the more chance it has of being really hurt by it. And this is going to go on for a long time, people.


----------



## d_s_

As a Pole I can say that I'm one of the people not from above mentioned European countries who has bought AEW Plus. I've actualy bought it one week before quarantine made them to run empty arena shows. As of now, I've been enjoying for what I've paid for, till unfortunately this week's show. The show was decent itself if not for that joke of a match in the middle. I'm sorry but just 2 weeks ago we've had this whole teleportation thing, which made a big part of their audience stating that they're done with AEW and if AEW will continune put this kind of BS they'll die very soon. What they did was they twinkled it a little, stating that it was the drone showing holograms instead of magical powers etc. They've apologized to the fans for a mistke they've made with this angle just to put that joke of a match 2 weeks later which was a lot worse than that. I'm gonna keep subcsribing and I sincerely hope for AEW to grow & success, but they continue doing this abomination of a match on TV then they may realy be dead very soon.


----------



## Deathiscoming

AEW sucks and will soon be out of business. Wrestling as a whole will see a sharp decline in the coming months and years. And I love it!


----------



## Bosnian21

RapShepard said:


> I think you're way too optimistic here. I don't think either company is going to recover all those fans, especially not in a few weeks. Those fans can't be that loyal if they're not going to watch. The longer they go without watching the more likely that find something else to become a fan of.


Geniune question, what else will they become a fan of?

Nothing else is on TV right now.


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> Down from 900k to 700k? They've taken a much larger hit than WWE programming has. Raw's lost about the same amount of viewers from a much larger pool. And people were wanting to blame the news. Well, I guess people only watch the news instead of wrestling on Wednesdays then.
> 
> 
> 
> I really doubt this clears up by June. I haven't been paying too close attention and am just trying to do my things and follow the acceptable guidelines over here, but from what has blown my way in the wind, it looks doubtful that live events will really pick up until a vaccine is found, and that is probably going to be years, barring any mutation of the virus or any other virus springing up in the meantime.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I haven't really been following the American news, and I know Trump is an ignorant cunt talking out both sides, but it seems INSANE that he would clear live events in this climate. He might WANT shows up and running, just like we all WANT this virus to just go away, but I really doubt he bullies anyone into making this pandemic worse, as opposed to just implementing ineffective measures to stop its spread. He won't go backwards on it.
> 
> And it is PR suicide for companies to run and risk being part of spreading this shit to the ignorant. You'd think that a wrestling promotion that at least pretends to be politically engaged would just refuse to run.


Lol right the worlds healing on its owm but the US id not allowed to do what it takes to heal unless we have a vaccine. That will never happen and we dont need it. We stay home and it will go away. But yes im sure it wont happen in june, hopeful thinking.

Terrible timing for new companies. AEW was probably going to gain momentum by the end of the summer with storylines but bit any more. And this is unfortunately going to be a terrible championship run for mox


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Bosnian21 said:


> Geniune question, what else will they become a fan of?
> 
> Nothing else is on TV right now.


Who says it has to be a new TV program? Myself and the girlfriend are unable to go to work and the Australian laws are very strict saying we can't leave the house so we've started watching movies and TV shows from many years ago that we know are good but have never got the chance to watch.

We are also both big rugby league fans and were tuning in when they were playing without crowds as were many others. I think the "AEW doesn't have a crowd so people have tuned out" excuse is just that (An excuse). I think AEW have turned people off with their average shows that have been going on for a little while now.


----------



## The Wood

Bosnian21 said:


> Geniune question, what else will they become a fan of?
> 
> Nothing else is on TV right now.


Other things seem to be doing just fine.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I hope this thing is prolonged and AEW goes out of business, never recovers, as I trusted them to be something NEW, fresh, but instead all they gave me is a bunch of women and women's wrestling, lame petite flippy guys, Miz-wannabes like MJF(when Miz himself is an instant channel changer and a certified moron) and Dark Order and Bald *****..yuck. It's not like AEW had any future anyway! Also, Fat chris jericho and Midcard Moxley were terrible choices to be world champion.

AEW fucking sucks! And they deserve 350K viewers and not 700K, just like the WWE deserve 500K viewers at best, not 2M.

That being said, I hope the WWE goes out of business as well! I can't wait! Vince must suffer and fall!


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> Lol right the worlds healing on its owm but the US id not allowed to do what it takes to heal unless we have a vaccine. That will never happen and we dont need it. We stay home and it will go away. But yes im sure it wont happen in june, hopeful thinking.
> 
> Terrible timing for new companies. AEW was probably going to gain momentum by the end of the summer with storylines but bit any more. And this is unfortunately going to be a terrible championship run for mox


I disagree that they were about to get momentum, but agree that this situation is unfortunate.


----------



## RapShepard

Bosnian21 said:


> Geniune question, what else will they become a fan of?
> 
> Nothing else is on TV right now.


There's tons of content to pick from. Get into games, fall down the rabbit hole that is streaming services, reality shows and other shit on TV. The folk in the US that stopped watching are certainly filling the time they'd watch Dynamite with something else. No guarantee they won't continue to consume that when this is over


----------



## Matthew Castillo

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW live is amazing. I was at Austin/HEB Center and I will never forget it. Great time.


That was a great show, the fact that it had the best Women's match in the promotions history certainly didn't hurt.


----------



## Aedubya

Stay Classy


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> I disagree that they were about to get momentum, but agree that this situation is unfortunate.


I didnt mean about to but with being constant with the building uo if charcters being over maybe later this year but now mot happening


----------



## Erik.

Didn't really know where to put this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249561386801336321
Now of course, The Rock doesn't watch AEW live but it wouldn't surprise me if he's seen clips. He's praised Cody pretty heavily in the past during his World title challenge for his promo etc.

The Rock has 100,000,000 followers on Instagram doesn't he? He didn't need to mention them, I thought it was pretty cool of him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> Didn't really know where to put this.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249561386801336321
> Now of course, The Rock doesn't watch AEW live but it wouldn't surprise me if he's seen clips. He's praised Cody pretty heavily in the past during his World title challenge for his promo etc.
> 
> The Rock has 100,000,000 followers on Instagram doesn't he? He didn't need to mention them, I thought it was pretty cool of him.


99% chance he doesn't watch AEW or WWE. Very PC response to the question lol


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> 99% chance he doesn't watch AEW or WWE. Very PC response to the question lol


You can watch his Instagram live - he does talk abit of pro wrestling on there. I sort of get the impression from him just by the way he talks, that he thinks the WWE absolutely sucks.


----------



## The Wood

MJF said:


> You can watch his Instagram live - he does talk abit of pro wrestling on there. I sort of get the impression from him just by the way he talks, that he thinks the WWE absolutely sucks.


He’s also worked out in a Lucha Underground shirt.

If Rock wanted to, Seven Bucks Promotions could put $20 million down and go to a billionaire like Mark Cuban, get them to front another $80 million, get a $125 million per year TV deal in prime time, and potentially get higher ratings than WWE. They would definitely kill AEW.

I’d mark out for The Rock giving back to wrestling by giving wrestling what it needs, but he doesn’t want to. He seems perfectly content having a reasonably respectful relationship with Vince, and seeing his family and extended family gainfully employed.


----------



## Britz94xD

It would be cool if The Rock showed up on Dynamite just for kicks (and troll Vince). They'd appreciate his help.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> It would be cool if The Rock showed up on Dynamite just for kicks (and troll Vince). They'd appreciate his help.


So you're saying you want money mark to bankrupt AEW so he can get The Rock to show up on Dynamite (which is something The Rock won't do anyways for ANY amount of money) just to troll Vince Mcmahon?


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> So you're saying you want money mark to bankrupt AEW so he can get The Rock to show up on Dynamite (which is something The Rock won't do anyways for ANY amount of money) just to troll Vince Mcmahon?


I was thinking he'd do it as a favour....for free.

To troll Vince and help out the wrestling biz


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> I was thinking he'd do it as a favour....for free.
> 
> To troll Vince and help out the wrestling biz


The Rock isn't showing up for free nor is he going to do AEW a favour by showing up.

Help out the wrestling biz by trolling Vince? Whats the gain in that?


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> The Rock isn't showing up for free nor is he going to do AEW a favour by showing up.
> 
> Help out the wrestling biz by trolling Vince? Whats the gain in that?


How do you know? The Rock might think it'd be fun to show up unannounced like he did on Raw one time a few years ago.

He may want to help out "the boys". AEW benefits from having a mega star on their show and they can plug one of his new movies out of courtesy.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> How do you know? The Rock might think it'd be fun to show up unannounced like he did on Raw one time a few years ago.
> 
> He may want to help out "the boys". AEW benefits from having a mega star on their show and they can plug one of his new movies out of courtesy.


The Rock isn't showing up for free period even his WWE appearences he got paid for those appearences.

But it'd bankrupt them because they can't pay him the amount of money that he'd be asking for to appear, and not only that but The Rock is best buds with Vince Mcmahon so he'd NEVER make an appearence on Dynamite EVER for that VERY reason.

The Rock isn't Hulk Hogan hes not going to take his star power and help another wrestling company out.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> The Rock isn't showing up for free period even his WWE appearences he got paid for those appearences.
> 
> But it'd bankrupt them because they can't pay him the amount of money that he'd be asking for to appear, and not only that but The Rock is best buds with Vince Mcmahon so he'd NEVER make an appearence on Dynamite EVER for that VERY reason.
> 
> The Rock isn't Hulk Hogan hes not going to take his star power and help another wrestling company out.


Well I respectfully disagree.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> Well I respectfully disagree.


So you think The Rock will betray Vince and show up on Dynamite? Really man? If it was Hulk Hogan then I'd agree with you that he'd do it because hes done it in the past but NOT The Rock.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> So you think The Rock will betray Vince and show up on Dynamite? Really man? If it was Hulk Hogan then I'd agree with you that he'd do it because hes done it in the past but NOT The Rock.


The Rock showing up on Dynamite once for fun is not "betraying" Vince. He won't like it but oh well.

I'm sure Austin and Hogan will appear too at some point.


----------



## The Wood

Britz94xD said:


> I'm sure Austin and Hogan will appear too at some point.


You're _sure_ about that?


----------



## Britz94xD

Yep, Austin is friendly with Khan and Hogan would do anything for $$$.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> The Rock showing up on Dynamite once for fun is not "betraying" Vince. He won't like it but oh well.
> 
> I'm sure Austin and Hogan will appear too at some point.


That is betraying Vince because hes helping getting another company publicity by him showing up.
Of course Vince won't like it because it'll get AEW free publicity.

🤣 Theres NO WAY Austin is appearing he has a podcast on the WWE Network.

And where is this money going to come from to pay Austin and The Rock all this money to appear on Dynamite?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> Yep, Austin is friendly with Khan and Hogan would do anything for $$$.


Yeah Hogan would definitely do it but theres 0 chance that Austin is appearing since he has a podcast on the WWE Network and hes made appearences on Raw.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> That is betraying Vince because hes helping getting another company publicity by him showing up.
> Of Vince won't like it becausei t'll get AEW free publicity.
> 
> 🤣 Theres NO WAY Austin is appearing he hasa podcast on the WWE Network.
> 
> And where is this money going to come from to pay Austin and The Rock all this money to appear on Dynamite?


The Rock raising up AEW doesn't put WWE down, They can co-exist. Bret Hart appeared in both companies. I don't know how much he was paid by AEW but probably not too much.

Austin doesn't have exclusive contract with WWE.

Where's the money coming from? AEW can't spare a couple of Gs to get Austin and Hogan to appear on their show? I doubt that and they'd probably do it for free anyway.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> The Rock raising up AEW doesn't put WWE down, They can co-exist. Bret Hart appeared in both companies. I don't know how much he was paid by AEW but probably not too much.
> 
> Austin doesn't have exclusive contract with WWE.
> 
> Where's the money coming from? AEW can't spare a couple of Gs to get Austin and Hogan to appear on their show? I doubt that and they'd probably do it for free anyway.


Bret Hart left WWF to go to WCW because WWF couldn't afford his 20 year contract. Also Also of course it won't put WWE only a financial crisis can take WWE down. And WWE won't work with AEW because its obvious AEW are trying to compete with them by their shots at WWE that they have been doing.

WWE's contracts are exclusivity so Austin has that same deal.

🤣 Dude theres NO WAY AEW can afford to get Austin and Hogan without bankrupting themselves and Austin and Hogan won't appear for free at ANYtime.


----------



## RapShepard

Britz94xD said:


> How do you know? The Rock might think it'd be fun to show up unannounced like he did on Raw one time a few years ago.
> 
> He may want to help out "the boys". AEW benefits from having a mega star on their show and they can plug one of his new movies out of courtesy.


You certainly are optimistic manl. You think it's possible that not only could AEW get Punk, Bryan, and Lesnar. But that they also could get Rock and Austin to appear.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> Bret Hart left WWF to go to WCW because WWF couldn't afford his 20 year contract. Also Also of course it won't put WWE only a financial crisis can take WWE down. And WWE won't work with AEW because its obvious AEW are trying to compete with them by their shots at WWE that they have been doing.
> 
> WWE's contracts are exclusivity so Austin has that same deal.
> 
> 🤣 Dude theres NO WAY AEW can afford to get Austin and Hogan without bankrupting themselves and Austin and Hogan won't appear for free at ANYtime.


I wasn't saying WWE and AEW would work together, I was saying the legends are free to appear on both shows like Bret did last year. Does it really matter to WWE if Hogan, Austin, Flair, Bret showed up on Dynamite one time? No. Do they really care if they are on Vince's bad side at this point? No.

How much do you think It'd cost to get Hogan and Austin to appear on Dynamite one time? Not an exorbitant amount.

Khan - "Hey Steve, do you want to say a few words on Dynamite and stunner someone" "Sure that sounds fun". What's so difficult?


----------



## Britz94xD

RapShepard said:


> You certainly are optimistic manl. You think it's possible that not only could AEW get Punk, Bryan, and Lesnar. But that they also could get Rock and Austin to appear.


I'm with you guys, it's highly unlikely but possible.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> I wasn't saying WWE and AEW would work together, I was saying the legends are free to appear on both shows like Bret did last year. Does it really matter to WWE if Hogan, Austin, Flair, Bret showed up on Dynamite one time? No. Do they really care if they are on Vince's bad side at this point? No.
> 
> How much do you think It'd cost to get Hogan and Austin to appear on Dynamite one time? Not an exorbitant amount.


Austin and Hogan can't make an AEW appearence because they have legend's deals with WWE so they can't show up on Dynamite under any circumstances. Bret Hart wasn't under contract with WWE when he appeared on Dynamite so that show he was able to appear on there. It matters to WWE and them because they're under a WWE legend's deal so they and AEW will both be sued by WWE for breaking and tampering with their contracts.

I know you're not serious and is trolling to be funny (and honestly you are hirlarious I'll give you that) but I'll answer your question. It'd cost $20 million or more to get those guys to appear on Dynamite.


----------



## Britz94xD

Why would it cost $20million for one appearance? They could get Brock Lesnar to wrestle on Dynamite for that amount, that's insane.

Those real fake independent contractor agreements wouldn't stand up in court anyway. I don't think Hogan, Austin, Flair, Bret care about upsetting Vince at this point in their lives, they can appear on Dynamite any time they want too. WWE need them more than the other way around.

Flair was the one who was originally going to reveal the AEW belt on the PPV last year but was ill, so they asked Bret to do it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> Why would it cost $20million for one appearance? They could get Brock Lesnar to wrestle on Dynamite for that amount, that's insane.
> 
> Those real fake independent contractor agreements wouldn't stand up in court anyway. I don't think Hogan, Austin, Flair, Bret care about upsetting Vince at this point in their lives, they can appear on Dynamite any time they want too. WWE need them more than the other way around.


Because in order for them to leave WWE you need to give them more money then what they were getting WWE. I know its insane thats why they have no chance of getting these guys to appear on Dynamite because AEW doesn't have the money to pay them.

If they didn't care about upsetting Vince they would've done it by now and they would lose the lawsuit because even though they're independent contractors they're exclusive only to WWE. So they can't appear on Dynamite because they're exclusive to WWE because WWE's contracts are exclusivity. AEW needs them more because they're tv ratings are horrible they're only getting over 600,000 viewers.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> Because in order for them to leave WWE you need to give them more money then what they were getting WWE. I know its insane thats why they have no chance of getting these guys to appear on Dynamite because AEW doesn't have the money to pay them.
> 
> If they didn't care about upsetting Vince they would've done it by now and they would lose the lawsuit because even though they're independent contractors they're exclusive only to WWE. So they can't appear on Dynamite because they're exclusive to WWE because WWE's contracts are exclusivity. AEW needs them more because they're tv ratings are horrible they're only getting over 600,000 viewers.


Then why was Flair going to unveil the new AEW belt on PPV last year? (He had to drop out due to nearly dying).

I think you are severely overestimating these legends deals, don't WWE pay them like $10,000 per appearance and they can opt out of the legends deal every year? It's not that hard for them appear on Dynamite.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Why do people act like AEW should just thrown insane amounts of money at people just because The Khans got money?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> Then why was Flair going to unveil the new AEW belt on PPV last year? (He had to drop out due to nearly dying).
> 
> I think you are severely overestimating these legends deals, don't WWE pay them like $10,000 per appearance and they can opt out of the legends deal every year? It's not that hard for them appear on Dynamite.


Because Flair didn't have a WWE contract at that time and thats why he was talking about how he might go to AEW.

The legend's deals pays them a couple of million a year and I don't think they can opt out. They can't appear on Dynamite underany circumstances while they're on WWE legend's deals.


----------



## Britz94xD

Ozell Gray said:


> Because Flair didn't have a WWE contract at that time and thats why he was talking about how he might go to AEW.
> 
> The legend's deals pays them a couple of million a year and I don't think they can opt out. They can't appear on Dynamite underany circumstances while they're on WWE legend's deals.


Alright you win.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Why do people act like AEW should just thrown insane amounts of money at people just because The Khans got money?


Because getting Punk or Lesnar would be worth it in the long run.

I didn't even mention my idea of AEW doing CM Punk vs Steve Austin dream match. How much would that cost to make happen?


----------



## Marbar

I could deal with Punk but how much money was wasted for Dumasscus Hardy and Brody Lee. I love AEW but i just am not excited about those pickups at the moment. If AEW wanted to piss a boatload of money away make an ungodly offer to buy MLW and rebuild around Hammerstone, the Von Erichs and Pilman. More bang for the buck with at least some upside. I realize it's not for sale and will never happen but I'm just trying to make a point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Marbar said:


> I could deal with Punk but how much money was wasted for Dumasscus Hardy and Brody Lee. I love AEW but i just am not excited about those pickups at the moment. If AEW wanted to piss a boatload of money away make an ungodly offer to buy MLW and rebuild around Hammerstone, the Von Erichs and Pilman. More bang for the buck with at least some upside. I realize it's not for sale and will never happen but I'm just trying to make a point.


Hardy's financials are kind of public knowledge and we can figure out what AEW is paying him (At least ball park) based on it.

When Hardy went back to TNA it was said by himself that he got a monthly fee, a per match fee and royalties every month. The per match fee was spoken about by I believe Dave Meltzer who reported Matt was making 2000 dollars a match. His monthly fee probably would've been around the same just to stop him from getting up and leaving to go to WWE. He worked 36 matches in 2016 which would've made him 72,000 dollars plus an additional 24,000 a year from his monthly fee. 96,000 for that year from Impact alone.

He also worked 55 independent dates at a minimum of 2000 dollars a match netting him another 110,000 taking his total to 206,000 not including any Impact royalties, conventions, seminars, independent merchandise etc. Lets be generous and say he made 250,000 USD for his last year as an independent wrestler/TNA star.

Now obviously his WWE contract isn't public knowledge but I'd say it probably would've been over that 250,000 dollar mark by a significant amount especially with Matt having to go back on the road, work more, give up the cushy indy gigs etc etc. For argument sake lets say 350,000 - 400,000 a year from the WWE for Matt plus some creative freedom which Matt seems entitled to for whatever reason.

AEW come knocking. They want Matt he says you know what guys I've got my brother here, I'm getting a regular pay cheque from the biggest company in the world, if I join AEW I'm taking a step backwards in terms of exposure. AEW says okay what if we pay you more? Matt says show me the money and they offer 550,000 - 600,000 a year. I think that's probably where he's at right now in terms of money possibly even more due to AEW being desperate for name talent.

Is Matt worth that? I'd say probably not. At one stage Jeff probably was but it's the less popular Hardy boy who is now in his mid forties and does a funny voice. AEW also has very few ways to make money back off a guy like Matt Hardy with no house shows and limited PPV's. The type of fans that are into Broken Matt are already watching AEW every week anyway.

Brodie Lee I'd say about the same since him and Hardy are the two biggest stars to leave WWE in a little while. 

CM Punk I'd love to know what they offered him. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Lesnar money.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> You can watch his Instagram live - he does talk abit of pro wrestling on there. I sort of get the impression from him just by the way he talks, that he thinks the WWE absolutely sucks.


Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised. Austin thinks it sucks as well. In fact, the way Vince has spoken about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if he thinks it sucks as well. He’s been on record saying the current stars have no ambition lol.


----------



## The Wood

WWE sucks, but AEW sucks too. Austin thought Billy Gunn and Marc Mero had credibility issues. Do you really think he is going to sacrifice the money Vince McMahon probably still pays him to keep him on retainer to appear on a comedy show with <700k viewers? Get fucking real. AEW’s content has shot them in the foot. Austin may have considered _wrestling_ if they had signed Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and CM Punk. Instead they signed Brandon Cutler and Marko Stunt. It is done as a main event mainstream promotion. They have made their choice, and they have made yours — PWG with a budget or gentrified WWE. Nothing is changing.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> WWE sucks, but AEW sucks too. Austin thought Billy Gunn and Marc Mero had credibility issues. Do you really think he is going to sacrifice the money Vince McMahon probably still pays him to keep him on retainer to appear on a comedy show with <700k viewers? Get fucking real. AEW’s content has shot them in the foot. Austin may have considered _wrestling_ if they had signed Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and CM Punk. Instead they signed Brandon Cutler and Marko Stunt. It is done as a main event mainstream promotion. They have made their choice, and they have made yours — PWG with a budget or gentrified WWE. Nothing is changing.


wrestling In general just doesn’t have the characters it used to, it’s just not as good as it used to be.

but at least AEW are trying, even if they do make mistakes, WWE couldn’t give a fuck, I mean look at the title match main events at WrestleMania, pathetic.


----------



## Erik.




----------



## RiverFenix

I predict NXT makes it two in a row this week. Limited crew who made it to Atlanta is being exposed and we have four more weeks of it. NXT could make it's big move here. Introducing new characters to be potential hooks rather than putting out the tired ones that AEW fans might have tuned out.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I predict NXT makes it two in a row this week. Limited crew who made it to Atlanta is being exposed and we have four more weeks of it. NXT could make it's big move here. Introducing new characters to be potential hooks rather than putting out the tired ones that AEW fans might have tuned out.


NXT will be down and AEW will be up.

Fans don't care about new faces.


----------



## Danielallen1410

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I predict NXT makes it two in a row this week. Limited crew who made it to Atlanta is being exposed and we have four more weeks of it. NXT could make it's big move here. Introducing new characters to be potential hooks rather than putting out the tired ones that AEW fans might have tuned out.


I’m not sure, aew really hyped up the main event this week, I’m in the uk and they had me staying up for it, I think they win this week, but after NXT debuted Killer Kross and aew have advertised fuck all of note for next week I think NXT win next week.

I hope there’s no more daillys place matches, the ones in the warehouse benefit massively from the wrestlers at ringside.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> I’m not sure, aew really hyped up the main event this week, I’m in the uk and they had me staying up for it, I think they win this week, but after NXT debuted Killer Kross and aew have advertised fuck all of note for next week I think NXT win next week.
> 
> I hope there’s no more daillys place matches, the ones in the warehouse benefit massively from the wrestlers at ringside.


I think more people knows who is Orange Cassidy than Kross, so i don't think his debut is going to change anything.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> I think more people knows who is Orange Cassidy than Kross, so i don't think his debut is going to change anything.


one advantage nxt has at the moment is they are live so they can react week by week.

if AEW have a bad weeks ratings wise they have to put out what they have already taped.

im wondering if they hot shot a hardy Compound match with Hardy and Jericho if ratings don’t improve.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> NXT will be down and AEW will be up.
> 
> Fans don't care about new faces.


The 1st hour of Dynamite realistically could have drawn an average of only 500K. I would not at all be surprised if it did, based on all of the jobbers they featured. I wouldn't expect some big gain from last week, because hour 1 is going to drag on the overall number.


----------



## Danielallen1410

AEWMoxley said:


> The 1st hour of Dynamite realistically could have drawn an average of only 500K. I would not at all be surprised if it did, based on all of the jobbers they featured. I wouldn't expect some big gain from last week, because hour 1 is going to drag on the overall number.


Hour one was better than hour two. I enjoyed it.


----------



## bdon

The last half hour was “a treat”. Lmao


----------



## Danielallen1410

Not sure if it means anything but dynamite was the number one worldwide trend on Twitter last night.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Danielallen1410 said:


> Hour one was better than hour two. I enjoyed it.


We aren't talking about which hour was subjectively better. We're talking about ratings, and the effect the lack of star power for hour 1 will have. In fact, the first hour and a half of the episode was basically just jobbers.

I get that they are limited in what they can do and who they can use, but it's a travesty that someone like MJF hasn't appeared on the show in so long, even if it's just a promo package.


----------



## Danielallen1410

AEWMoxley said:


> We aren't talking about which hour was subjectively better. We're talking about ratings, and the effect the lack of star power for hour 1 will have. In fact, the first hour and a half of the episode was basically just jobbers.
> 
> I get that they are limited in what they can do and who they can use, but it's a travesty that someone like MJF hasn't appeared on the show in so long, even if it's just a promo package.


i just think it will be about the same as last week. Can’t see many new viewers tuning in during this empty arena spell and the hardcore fans which is clearly around the 600-700k mark will always watch.


----------



## IamMark

AEW 683k 0.25 29th 
NXT later


----------



## AEWMoxley

I told you, @rbl85


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

decent rating


----------



## Ozell Gray

So the tv ratings fail from last week not surprising at all.


----------



## fabi1982

IamMark said:


> AEW 683k 0.25 29th
> NXT later


NXT 692k


----------



## IamMark

58 WWE NXT: WWE NXT USA NETWORK 8:00 PM 121 0.17 692


----------



## taker1986

Not bad considering the first hour was filler. It's going to be like this until the lockdown is lifted and we have a full roster and possibly more additions out of the free agents. 

Last night was basically a one match show with Mox/Hager. Next week look more balanced with two TNT title matches, Sammy/Darby should steal the show, plus Omega in singles action. So next week might not have that big title match but overall it looks better.


----------



## Dark Emperor

So its confirimed Mox if officially not a draw or potential 'megastar'



optikk sucks said:


> decent rating


How did we go from aiming from 1m viewers and regularly getting over 900k to 0.68m being a 'decent rating' in less than 2months. 

That a drop of almost 25%, wtf!


----------



## Danielallen1410

I’m really concerned aew are in trouble, they have jumped the gun and taped all these shows, the roster is tiny. Nxt are live, it’s not going to get better soon.


----------



## One Shed

A lot of this is because so many of the talents cannot get to "Parts Unknown" for the show due to where they live. Sadly we will be "treated" to Chuck Taylor and Marko Stunt most weeks and not Pac or Hangman until this is done.


----------



## One Shed

Dark Emperor said:


> So its confirimed Mox if officially not a draw or potential 'megastar'
> 
> 
> 
> How did we go from aiming from 1m viewers and regularly getting over 900k to 0.68m being a 'decent rating' in less than 2months.
> 
> That a drop of almost 25%, wtf!


I mean, there is a plague and everyone is watching the news?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> So its confirimed Mox if officially not a draw or potential 'megastar'
> 
> 
> 
> How did we go from aiming from 1m viewers and regularly getting over 900k to 0.68m being a 'decent rating' in less than 2months.
> 
> That a drop of almost 25%, wtf!


few reasons:
they're running on minimal talent - and it's the talent that people dont want to watch.
They are also staying very consistent. It means they're always going to have this 680+ people watch.
And I'm not going to bother discussing the Rona again after last week, but go back and see what was said and what is currently drawing.
and btw this is not their lowest rating - corona or not

so yeah, it's a good rating for the current situation. you living under a rock or something? Do you watch AEW? You would know why the ratings are the way they are. Same reason why WWE is also suffering.


----------



## fabi1982

Just seems like AEW has the same core audience than NXT. And AEW couldnt convince anyone from the casual audience to become a core part. I know there is a pandemic, but people should actually want to be distracted. Watching news 24/7 doesnt change the outcome. But it seems AEW couldnt even with a title match change that. And NXT doesnt have a „takeover like show“ this time, just shows both have the same core.


----------



## Ozell Gray

I told y'all that Dynamite was going to keep going down and that AEW are in DEEP trouble, but of course at the time anyone who spoke the truth were called trolls even though they spoke facts.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I mean, this is the card for next week:

*TNT Championship Tournament Quarterfinal*- Sammy Guevara vs. Darby Allin
*TNT Championship Tournament Quarterfinal*- Dustin Rhodes vs. Kip Sabian
Jimmy Havoc vs. Orange Cassidy (because Jimmy Havoc interfered in the match for some reason)
Brodie Lee vs. TBD (squash)
Kenny Omega vs. TBD (likely squash)

Outside of Guevara vs. Allin, there is nothing here that even remotely interests me, and I believe it's the same for many others. Even the tournament is falling completely flat due to how predictable the whole thing is on paper (how many really expect AEW to throw a curveball here?)

Sorry, but the fact is that NXT is offering more right now.


----------



## Ozell Gray

fabi1982 said:


> Just seems like AEW has the same core audience than NXT. And AEW couldnt convince anyone from the casual audience to become a core part. I know there is a pandemic, but people should actually want to be distracted. Watching news 24/7 doesnt change the outcome. But it seems AEW couldnt even with a title match change that. And NXT doesnt have a „takeover like show“ this time, just shows both have the same core.


There are no casuals watching NXT or Dynamite its just all smarks watching. AEW couldn't satisfy those smarks anymore so they left.


----------



## PavelGaborik

They're sinking fast with these weak shows.

They should seriously consider going off the air until they get their roster back.


----------



## Dark Emperor

optikk sucks said:


> few reasons:
> they're running on minimal talent - and it's the talent that people dont want to watch.
> They are also staying very consistent. It means they're always going to have this 680+ people watch.
> And I'm not going to bother discussing the Rona again after last week, but go back and see what was said and what is currently drawing.
> and btw this is not their lowest rating - corona or not
> 
> so yeah, it's a good rating for the current situation. you living under a rock or something? Do you watch AEW? You would know why the ratings are the way they are. Same reason why WWE is also suffering.


Some valid points but only an AEW fanboy will call a drop of this level 'decent rating'. We have to be honest, its a poor rating based on having a world title match with their second most well known talent.

Raw has suffered the most out of WWE shows, but the drop is not at this level % wise compared to 6weeks ago. But everyone is laughing their ass off at them and no one is calling their rating 'decent'


----------



## Boldgerg

There are some real fucking idiots in this thread, wetting their little pants with joy because they think "AeW iZ fAiLiN".

Of course people have lost interest in empty arena shows with a limited roster. What did people fucking expect?

Once this is all over AEW will regain momentum and bounce back, as will Raw and Smackdown. Let's not act like they've suddenly nose dived with no exceptional circumstances, just to fit peoples sad little agendas and bias.

I honestly fucking hate 99% of the professional wrestling fanbase. Full of utter cunts.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> Some valid points but only an AEW fanboy will call a drop of this level 'decent rating'. We have to be honest, its a poor rating based on having a world title match with their second most well known talent.
> 
> Raw has suffered the most out of WWE shows, but the drop is not at this level % wise compared to 6weeks ago. But everyone is laughing their ass off at them and no one is calling their rating 'decent'


You should ignore the negative marks. They're gonna be negative for any reason they can find. RAW is suffering for no reason of their own. Rona has really fucked shit up. Reigns would be champ right now and running shit. People gotta start thinking objectively and not subjectively. AEW/WWE will not be doing their usual ratings right now for all the reasons mentioned.


MJF
Page
Cody
PAC
Lucha Bros
Jungleboy and Luchasaurus
Bucks

ie the guys that have been prominently featured since Dynamite's inception

All MIA.

And the usual anti-AEW marks think there's an L to be taken here. Not at all.


----------



## One Shed

El Hammerstone said:


> I mean, this is the card for next week:
> 
> *TNT Championship Tournament Quarterfinal*- Sammy Guevara vs. Darby Allin
> *TNT Championship Tournament Quarterfinal*- Dustin Rhodes vs. Kip Sabian
> Jimmy Havoc vs. Orange Cassidy (because Jimmy Havoc interfered in the match for some reason)
> Brodie Lee vs. TBD (squash)
> Kenny Omega vs. TBD (likely squash)
> 
> Outside of Guevara vs. Allin, there is nothing here that even remotely interests me, and I believe it's the same for many others. Even the tournament is falling completely flat due to how predictable the whole thing is on paper (how many really expect AEW to throw a curveball here?)


Oh wow, an OC match! (shoots self in head)

And I refuse to believe Kenny Omega would have a match less than 20 minutes even if he was wrestling the East Hampton Polo Boys.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> I told y'all that Dynamite was going to keep going down and that AEW are in DEEP trouble, but of course at the time anyone who spoke the truth were called trolls even though they spoke facts.


Why would you be pleased about it?


----------



## Danielallen1410

Boldgerg said:


> There are some real fucking idiots in this thread, wetting their little pants with joy because they think "AeW iZ fAiLiN".
> 
> Of course people have lost interest in empty arena shows with a limited roster. What did people fucking expect?
> 
> Once this is all over AEW will regain momentum and bounce back, as will Raw and Smackdown. Let's not act like they've suddenly nose dived with no exceptional circumstances just to fit peoples sad little agendas and bias.
> 
> I honestly fucking hate 99% of the professional wrestling fanbase. Full of utter cunts.


its weird they’d want a rival promotion to WWE to fail, I can only imagine they are kids who never lived in an era where competition was good.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Lheurch said:


> Oh wow, an OC match! (shoots self in head)
> 
> *And I refuse to believe Kenny Omega would have a match less than 20 minutes even if he was wrestling the East Hampton Polo Boys.*


Which is why I said "likely" squash, lol.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Danielallen1410 said:


> Why would you be pleased about it?


Why do you assume people are pleased about it? I for one have been yearning for real competition to the WWE since WCW went under.


----------



## One Shed

El Hammerstone said:


> Why do you assume people are pleased about it? I for one have been yearning for real competition to the WWE since WCW went under.


Nah, any criticism of AEW means you are really just Kevin Dunn making multiple accounts.


----------



## Boldgerg

Danielallen1410 said:


> its weird they’d want a rival promotion to WWE to fail, I can only imagine they are kids who never lived in an era where competition was good.


A lot of wrestling fans are very strange people.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> Why would you be pleased about it?


I spoke facts that it AEW was a fad for smarks and eventually they were going tune out and I was right as you can see.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Lheurch said:


> Nah, any criticism of AEW means you are really just Kevin Dunn making multiple accounts.


Yep you can't criticize AEW about anything or speak facts even though they're true.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> I spoke facts that it AEW was a fad for smarks and eventually they were going tune out and I was right as you can see.


well Done you.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> Yep you can't criticize AEW about anything or speak facts even though they're true.


ive criticised them, but I haven’t come across as an obnoxious cunt whilst I’ve done it.


----------



## bdon

Lheurch said:


> Oh wow, an OC match! (shoots self in head)
> 
> And I refuse to believe Kenny Omega would have a match less than 20 minutes even if he was wrestling the East Hampton Polo Boys.


As long as it isn’t comedy bullshit, those 20 minutes will be an enjoyable match.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> There are some real fucking idiots in this thread, wetting their little pants with joy because they think "AeW iZ fAiLiN".
> 
> Of course people have lost interest in empty arena shows with a limited roster. What did people fucking expect?
> 
> Once this is all over AEW will regain momentum and bounce back, as will Raw and Smackdown. Let's not act like they've suddenly nose dived with no exceptional circumstances, just to fit peoples sad little agendas and bias.
> 
> I honestly fucking hate 99% of the professional wrestling fanbase. Full of utter cunts.


AEW won't get those viewers back so theres going to be no momentum to get. Those viewers aren't coming back for AEW, because once they tune out they leave completely and that show it works with wrestling. WWE might get momentum and get better tv ratings if they make their shows better because they're tv ratings will increase because WWE are mainstream. That won't happen with AEW because they appeal to the smarks so they have no opportunity to grow their tv ratings.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW wins the demo again by a wide margin (by even a larger margin than last week) yet we are getting the same old silliness. The 29th place show lost to the 58th place show LMAO. 

To those who are like well everyone makes fun of WWE's ratings attack their viewers and not demo when in reality Raw has dropped further in demo than they have in actual viewership.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW won't get those viewers back so theres going to be no momentum to get. Those viewers aren't coming back for AEW, because once they tune out they leave completely and that show it works with wrestling. WWE might get momentum and get better tv ratings if they make their shows better because they're tv ratings will increase because WWE are mainstream. That won't happen with AEW because they appeal to the smarks so they have no opportunity to grow their tv ratings.


Thank you for your input, industry expert.

Has your crystal ball told you any other future certainties and facts? Something I can bet on would be handy.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> its weird they’d want a rival promotion to WWE to fail, I can only imagine they are kids who never lived in an era where competition was good.


AEW was never going to be competition so let it go already. AEW are and will be as long as it sin business a niche, small company with a niche fanbase. WWE will never have competition its too big of a company to have competition.


----------



## One Shed

Boldgerg said:


> In regar
> 
> 
> Thank you for your input, industry expert.
> 
> Has your crystal ball told you any other future certainties and facts? Something I can bet on would be handy.


Yes, I predict the Bucks will never resemble fully grown adult males. Bet everything you have on that.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> As long as it isn’t comedy bullshit, those 20 minutes will be an enjoyable match.


Maybe not the thread for this topic, but my main problem with him is he puts up with too many comedy matches. He seems to enjoy them. If it takes him 20 minutes to beat comedy jobber #24875, it takes away from the big matches. I wish he would carry himself more seriously.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> They're sinking fast with these weak shows.
> 
> They should seriously consider going off the air until they get their roster back.


I don't get this suggestion, a few meh episodes is better than no show. Last thing they want to do is get their hardcore wrestling audience watching NXT instead or even worse realizing they actually can find other things to enjoy in Wednesday night. There's no guarantee fans will be coming back once this is over.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Maybe not the thread for this topic, but my main problem with him is he puts up with too many comedy matches. He seems to enjoy them. If it takes him 20 minutes to beat comedy jobber #24875, it takes away from the big matches. I wish he would carry himself more seriously.


omega has been the biggest disappointment of AEW


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> Oh wow, an OC match! (shoots self in head)
> 
> And I refuse to believe Kenny Omega would have a match less than 20 minutes even if he was wrestling *the East Hampton Polo Boys.*


OMG that name should be used for MJFs version of the Mean Street Posse lol


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Thank you for your input, industry expert.
> 
> Has your crystal ball told you any other future certainties and facts? Something I can bet on would be handy.


Okay smart guy heres facts for you when wrestling loses viewers those viewers NEVER come back.Thisisn'ttheNFL,MLB,ortheNBAwhereiftheyloseviewerstheycangetthosesamepeopletotunebackinthisis wrestling we're talking about.


Boldgerg said:


> Thank you for your input, industry expert.
> 
> Has your crystal ball told you any other future certainties and facts? Something I can bet on would be handy.


This is wrestling when it loses viewers theres 0 chance of getting them back and thats a fact backed up with statistics proving it. This isn't the NFL, MLB, or the NBA where if they lose viewers they can get those people back. This is wrestling which has a history of when it loses viewers it loses them PERMENENTLY. So theres your facts smart guy.


----------



## bdon

Lheurch said:


> Maybe not the thread for this topic, but my main problem with him is he puts up with too many comedy matches. He seems to enjoy them. If it takes him 20 minutes to beat comedy jobber #24875, it takes away from the big matches. I wish he would carry himself more seriously.


Agreed. Stay away from the comedy shit, and it’s gold.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW was never going to be competition so let it go already. AEW are and will be as long as it sin business a niche, small company with a niche fanbase. WWE will never have competition its too big of a company to have competition.


well here’s the thing, Aew are aware of that, if you listen to JRs podcast he says that no company in his lifetime will be at WWEs level, but that there is still plenty of money to be made in the business.

it Was WWE who decided to put NxT up against AEW because the stupid cunt in charge wants everyone else to fail.

There really was no need to do it other than to just end any “competition”.

Hence why most people want the underdog to do well.

ill never understand why anyone would have a different view on this, what benefit does aew failing have to a wrestling fan?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The past 3 weeks AEW ratings have been almost identical.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> OMG that name should be used for MJFs version of the Mean Street Posse lol


They were in a random match on RAW a year or two ago. I completely lost it and fell on the floor when I saw the name. Them with MJF would be gold:


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Okay smart guy heres facts for you when wrestling loses viewers those viewers NEVER come back.Thisisn'ttheNFL,MLB,ortheNBAwhereiftheyloseviewerstheycangetthosesamepeopletotunebackinthisis wrestling we're talking about.
> 
> 
> This is wrestling when it loses viewers theres 0 chance of getting them back and thats a fact backed up with statistics proving it. This isn't the NFL, MLB, or the NBA where if they lose viewers they can get those people back. This is wrestling which has a history of when it loses viewers it loses them PERMENENTLY. So theres your facts smart guy.


And when was there last a worldwide pandemic that restricted the talent available, and meant fans weren't able to attend at all? Ratings and viewers haven't just dropped for no reason, as convenient as that is for people like you to ignore.

Again, exceptional, unheard of, bizarre circumstances. There has never been a situation like this before. You are making a prediction, not presenting any sort of fact(s).


----------



## RapShepard

CMPunkRock316 said:


> To those who are like well everyone makes fun of WWE's ratings attack their viewers and not demo when in reality Raw has dropped further in demo than they have in actual viewership.


Raw has dropped in demo, yet all 3 hours made the top 10. The first being in the top 5.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Stop replying to the troll, guys.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> They were in a random match on RAW a year or two ago. I completely lost it and fell on the floor when I saw the name. Them with MJF would be gold:


That name is glorious lol. It's such a good jobber tag team gimmick. Could easily buy them as MJF's rich nerdy cousins.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> That name is glorious lol. It's such a good jobber tag team gimmick. Could easily buy them as MJF's rich nerdy cousins.


Yes, I agree. This needs to happen ASAP.


----------



## rbl85

Guys do you know how many shows AEW taped ?

Because they might run out of content if the situation is the same in a few weeks.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

RapShepard said:


> Raw has dropped in demo, yet all 3 hours made the top 10. The first being in the top 5.


Look at their demos the past several years they are dropping at a staggering rate. I know cable an tv ratings are down over the last so many years but WWE's drops in viewership is awful but their demos are even worse.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Guys do you know how many shows AEW taped ?
> 
> Because they might run out of content if the situation is the same in a few weeks.


theyll be running if WWE is.


----------



## RapShepard

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Look at their demos the past several years they are dropping at a staggering rate. I know cable an tv ratings are down over the last so many years but WWE's drops in viewership is awful but their demos are even worse.


I mean how awful are they when they still remain a top cable program? They've fell no doubt, but a top show is a top show. I think WWE constantly sucking themselves off about MNW ratings has done them and inadvertently AEW a huge disservice. Fans can't recognize good current wrestling ratings are, because they know wrestling ratngs used to be much higher. 

Pre-Cornoa Raw, SmackDown, and AEW were consistently in the top 10 demo wise on their nights, with NXT usually in the top 50 somewhere. Those type of showings are hardly anything folk should be mocking for a pretty niche form of entertainment.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Guys do you know how many shows AEW taped ?
> 
> Because they might run out of content if the situation is the same in a few weeks.


Like every other company right now, they will want to get back up and running as quick as possible. They will be live at the first opportunity possible as long as they can get away with it.

Thats why the WWE criticism is overblown as they got permission like a lot of other clearly non essential business and are following to strict measures without putting a gun to anyone's head. If AEW meet the same standard, they really need to get back. People need to work.


----------



## The Wood

Not sure what NXT did this week. I was almost expecting an AEW "win" (marginal and trivial), because they were at least promoting a Moxley title match. Maybe NXT had a barnburner, but I didn't know about it. Not REALLY surprised NXT has turned things around. I predicted it would about this time. The virus certainly makes things weird, but hey, that's the world we're in and NXT might just be adapting better. I've always believed the consistent quality of NXT would start to beat the erratic nature of AEW. Two "wins" (again, marginal and trivial) is hardly a pattern, but it will be interesting to see if it does become a trend. 

AEW can't really respond since they aren't going live. Whether you criticize WWE's decision to run live or not, it certainly gives them much more of an opportunity to produce more urgent programming over the next few weeks, at least.


----------



## taker1986

The way I see it, I wouldn't call these last two weeks wins for NXT. AEW has less than half their roster available and are pretaping their shows. NXT otoh have a full roster and are doing live shows and are still barely getting more viewers.

I expect over the next few weeks close wins for both, and then when AEW have a full roster back with potentially more signings and developing storyline it'll go back to beating NXT handily like it was before this pandemic.


----------



## Chan Hung

PavelGaborik said:


> They're sinking fast with these weak shows.
> 
> They should seriously consider going off the air until they get their roster back.


Could be worse if they do this. If they go black entirely then many may think they are off TNT, etc.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> The way I see it, I wouldn't call these last two weeks wins for NXT. AEW has less than half their roster available and are pretaping their shows. NXT otoh have a full roster and are doing live shows and are still barely getting more viewers.
> 
> I expect over the next few weeks close wins for both, and then when AEW have a full roster back with potentially more signings and developing storyline it'll go back to beating NXT handily like it was before this pandemic.


NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.

I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


----------



## Chan Hung

The Wood said:


> Not sure what NXT did this week. I was almost expecting an AEW "win" (marginal and trivial), because they were at least promoting a Moxley title match. Maybe NXT had a barnburner, but I didn't know about it. Not REALLY surprised NXT has turned things around. I predicted it would about this time. The virus certainly makes things weird, but hey, that's the world we're in and NXT might just be adapting better. I've always believed the consistent quality of NXT would start to beat the erratic nature of AEW. Two "wins" (again, marginal and trivial) is hardly a pattern, but it will be interesting to see if it does become a trend.
> 
> AEW can't really respond since they aren't going live. Whether you criticize WWE's decision to run live or not, it certainly gives them much more of an opportunity to produce more urgent programming over the next few weeks, at least.


The main event of NXT honestly looked like shit. AEW by default had a better main event , was promoted better but it did not live to the hype. The first ten minutes were a snoozefest and it was a long boring match.


----------



## qntntgood

Ozell Gray said:


> Okay smart guy heres facts for you when wrestling loses viewers those viewers NEVER come back.Thisisn'ttheNFL,MLB,ortheNBAwhereiftheyloseviewerstheycangetthosesamepeopletotunebackinthisis wrestling we're talking about.
> 
> 
> This is wrestling when it loses viewers theres 0 chance of getting them back and thats a fact backed up with statistics proving it. This isn't the NFL, MLB, or the NBA where if they lose viewers they can get those people back. This is wrestling which has a history of when it loses viewers it loses them PERMENENTLY. So theres your facts smart guy.



Viewers will return when there is something interesting on,right aew has taped shows until the end of May.and all of their wrestling pretty much laid off at this point.wwe can't afford to take days off,you saw what happened yesterday.


----------



## taker1986

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


Yeah I get what you mean, and the gap will only grow once AEW gets its full roster back. No Jericho (in ring) MJF, Page, Omega, Cody, PAC, Matt, Bucks etc and they're still winning the key demo.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


This is just salty spin, lol. You don't know what AEW are getting from advertising. They're an untested brand and the reason that the "key demo" is alleged as such is because they are a harder group to retain. Building your house on that foundation is always a risk. But it's just blatantly false to allege that AEW is definitely making more money than NXT. One is part of an established entertainment entity. It also probably takes a smaller share (doesn't AEW keep 50%?) and they're also costing $45 million, which NXT may or may not be getting. 

USA also has Raw, which absolutely smokes AEW. I'm pretty sure they're happy with that, which is why they fork out about $300 million a year for them. NXT accounts for hours four and five of WWE programming in their line-up. It's just ridiculous to put NXT on its own little island and assume that it is worth less because AEW usually "wins" the key demo by 0.1 or whatever. It's not like having a bigger key demo automatically means more money lol. 

And just saying the ratings don't matter during a pandemic is a weird assertion too. They matter about as much as the networks and advertisers want them to matter. Lots of stuff is shutting down, so maybe advertisers _don't_ care. But maybe they care _more_ because they want to be doing what they can to sell their products to people at home during this crisis. It also affects your viewership coming out of the pandemic, because if people decide during this period that they don't care, then they aren't automatically going to care when live events can be run again. This TV audience is basically who they are going to be drawing PPV buys from and selling tickets to. Damage done now will count for something later. 



taker1986 said:


> Yeah I get what you mean, and the gap will only grow once AEW gets its full roster back. No Jericho (in ring) MJF, Page, Omega, Cody, PAC, Matt, Bucks etc and they're still winning the key demo.


Jericho is there, Omega is there, Cody is there. Pac and Page aren't really draws now, are they? I don't know why people just naturally assume that people are going to come back once they tune out and decide that other stuff is more worthy of their time. It's going to be a battle to win people back.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> This is just salty spin, lol. You don't know what AEW are getting from advertising. They're an untested brand and the reason that the "key demo" is alleged as such is because they are a harder group to retain. Building your house on that foundation is always a risk. But it's just blatantly false to allege that AEW is definitely making more money than NXT. One is part of an established entertainment entity. It also probably takes a smaller share (doesn't AEW keep 50%?) and they're also costing $45 million, which NXT may or may not be getting.
> 
> USA also has Raw, which absolutely smokes AEW. I'm pretty sure they're happy with that, which is why they fork out about $300 million a year for them. NXT accounts for hours four and five of WWE programming in their line-up. It's just ridiculous to put NXT on its own little island and assume that it is worth less because AEW usually "wins" the key demo by 0.1 or whatever. It's not like having a bigger key demo automatically means more money lol.
> 
> And just saying the ratings don't matter during a pandemic is a weird assertion too. They matter about as much as the networks and advertisers want them to matter. Lots of stuff is shutting down, so maybe advertisers _don't_ care. But maybe they care _more_ because they want to be doing what they can to sell their products to people at home during this crisis. It also affects your viewership coming out of the pandemic, because if people decide during this period that they don't care, then they aren't automatically going to care when live events can be run again. This TV audience is basically who they are going to be drawing PPV buys from and selling tickets to. Damage done now will count for something later.
> 
> 
> 
> Jericho is there, Omega is there, Cody is there. Pac and Page aren't really draws now, are they? I don't know why people just naturally assume that people are going to come back once they tune out and decide that other stuff is more worthy of their time. It's going to be a battle to win people back.


Re-read my post. I never once implied I knew what AEW was getting for advertisements. I am talking about the networks themselves. A greater key demo means better rates for advertising.
At the end of the day, you can disagree all you want. AEW #29 NXT #51. No spin at all. It’s fact.

the spin is “TeN pErCeNt MaRgIn Of ErRoR” or the same garbage that you like to say. I like you wood; you’re better to debate with than the basic trolls.


----------



## ClintDagger

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


The age demos for wrestling are pretty good but the income, education, etcetera demos are awful so those good key demo numbers are meaningless to advertisers. The benefit that WWE and AEW bring to their networks are just the bulk ratings. It moves them up on the most watched cable network ratings which helps with rights fees. The people that place value on key demos in regards to wrestling are sorely misinformed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ClintDagger said:


> The age demos for wrestling are pretty good but the income, education, etcetera demos are awful so those good key demo numbers are meaningless to advertisers. The benefit that WWE and AEW bring to their networks are just the bulk ratings. It moves them up on the most watched cable network ratings which helps with rights fees. The people that place value on key demos in regards to wrestling are sorely misinformed.


And this is why AEW/WWE aren’t going anywhere.

Even TNA at its lowest managed to find a network that kept it alive.


----------



## Danielallen1410

surely they could go off air for a few weeks, airing double or nothing, fyter fest, fight for the fallen, all out, full gear and revolution for the next six weeks ...see where the land lies.

they could hype up a massive re launch show which could draw similar ratings to their debut, learn from mistakes. 

Ofcourse TNT would have to agree to it.
good PR aswell to take the moral high ground about welfare of the wrestlers.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

RapShepard said:


> I mean how awful are they when they still remain a top cable program? They've fell no doubt, but a top show is a top show. I think WWE constantly sucking themselves off about MNW ratings has done them and inadvertently AEW a huge disservice. Fans can't recognize good current wrestling ratings are, because they know wrestling ratngs used to be much higher.
> 
> Pre-Cornoa Raw, SmackDown, and AEW were consistently in the top 10 demo wise on their nights, with NXT usually in the top 50 somewhere. Those type of showings are hardly anything folk should be mocking for a pretty niche form of entertainment.


WWE hurt themselves when they decided to promote the brand vs stars. WWE will have their diehards who watch no matter what (I have DVR'ed for years now) and even that base has dropped. I imagine there are about 1.5 million WWE diehards these days that will watch Raw and SD 98% of the time and the rest is casuals. AEW has their base that seem to watch no matter what but it is between 600-800k. AEW needs to get that up to a million diehard viewers who watch and that is a challenge IMO. I wonder what their ratings would be if NXT was not on. Also if AEW started in October with more promos and vignette packages instead of matches, matches, matches would they have seen less of a initial drop? I mean I understand why they did matches to introduce people who may not be familiar with many of the guys. 



optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


I know NXT is losing by 30+% in demo. NXT has only won one time in demo and that was December 18th when they had both NXT main titles on the line and they won by 0.02 in the demo. I don't understand this logic.


----------



## Danielallen1410

CMPunkRock316 said:


> WWE hurt themselves when they decided to promote the brand vs stars. WWE will have their diehards who watch no matter what (I have DVR'ed for years now) and even that base has dropped. I imagine there are about 1.5 million WWE diehards these days that will watch Raw and SD 98% of the time and the rest is casuals. AEW has their base that seem to watch no matter what but it is between 600-800k. AEW needs to get that up to a million diehard viewers who watch and that is a challenge IMO. I wonder what their ratings would be if NXT was not on. Also if AEW started in October with more promos and vignette packages instead of matches, matches, matches would they have seen less of a initial drop? I mean I understand why they did matches to introduce people who may not be familiar with many of the guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I know NXT is losing by 30+% in demo. NXT has only won one time in demo and that was December 18th when they had both NXT main titles on the line and they won by 0.02 in the demo. I don't understand this logic.


one hundred per cent the big mistake they made was too many matches.

the other huge mistake was not paying cm punk whatever the hell he wanted. 

punk debuting at the end of the first dynamite episode instead of haeger would have kept most viewers for the following week, probably gained more.

this is why they need to do a big relaunch show when things get back to normal. Hype it to fuck, put your biggest draws in the main event (Moxley Jericho 2) have mjf and Cody have a rematch, try to get at least a million viewers then at the end debut someone big like punk.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> And when was there last a worldwide pandemic that restricted the talent available, and meant fans weren't able to attend at all? Ratings and viewers haven't just dropped for no reason, as convenient as that is for people like you to ignore.
> 
> Again, exceptional, unheard of, bizarre circumstances. There has never been a situation like this before. You are making a prediction, not presenting any sort of fact(s).


The worldwide pandemic means nothing to what Im talking about, even when you factor in the pandemic OTHER tv shows and even movies have seen INCREASES in tv ratings meanwhile wrestling hasn't.


Coronavirus is putting a temporary halt to the decades-long decline in broadcast television viewership.
TV ratings for the four major US broadcast networks—ABC, NBC, Fox, and CBS—have increased each week since March 1. Evening news shows are bringing in their largest audiences in decades, the New York Times reported. An average of 32 million Americans watched the evening news last week, up 42% from the same period last year.

👉The pandemic has been especially good to reality TV, medical dramas, and shows about first responders. ABC’s _American Idol _has grown its total audience three weeks in a row. The March 18 episode of _Game of Games_, hosted by Ellen DeGeneres, had its most viewers in more than a year, jumping 36% from the prior week. The March 11 finale of _The Bachelor _was the dating show’s most-watched installment since 2016👈.









All broadcast TV needed to slow its ratings decline was a coronavirus pandemic


TV ratings for virtually everything have increased in recent weeks, but especially for reality programs, medical dramas, and shows about first responders.




qz.com





So the pandemic can't be used as an excuse at all. The tv ratings dropped because the shows are bad thats why and I know thats hard for you to believe so its not convenient for you.

These are the facts for you buddy when wrestling loses viewers they're GONE PERMENENTLY and history shows this to be a fact. Dynamite will be NO different those viewers are gone permenently.


----------



## rbl85

The thing is that AEW cannot really make a better product at the moment.
Since the shows are taped they can't correct or change something that didn't work the week before.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> The thing is that AEW cannot really make a better product at the moment.
> Since the shows are taped they can't correct or change something that didn't work the week before.


what's not working is not having their top tier [and most exposed] talent on tv. they've spent most of dynamite pushing MJF, Hangman, Lucha Bros, PAC, Jurassic Express etc. only for them to go MIA.

And this won't change for a long ass time. AEW need to start pushing who they have available - which is tough without a crowd. But here we are.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> The worldwide pandemic means nothing to what Im talking about, even when you factor in the pandemic OTHER tv shows and even movies have seen INCREASES in tv ratings meanwhile wrestling hasn't.
> 
> 
> Coronavirus is putting a temporary halt to the decades-long decline in broadcast television viewership.
> TV ratings for the four major US broadcast networks—ABC, NBC, Fox, and CBS—have increased each week since March 1. Evening news shows are bringing in their largest audiences in decades, the New York Times reported. An average of 32 million Americans watched the evening news last week, up 42% from the same period last year.
> 
> 👉The pandemic has been especially good to reality TV, medical dramas, and shows about first responders. ABC’s _American Idol _has grown its total audience three weeks in a row. The March 18 episode of _Game of Games_, hosted by Ellen DeGeneres, had its most viewers in more than a year, jumping 36% from the prior week. The March 11 finale of _The Bachelor _was the dating show’s most-watched installment since 2016👈.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All broadcast TV needed to slow its ratings decline was a coronavirus pandemic
> 
> 
> TV ratings for virtually everything have increased in recent weeks, but especially for reality programs, medical dramas, and shows about first responders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the pandemic can't be used as an excuse at all. The tv ratings dropped because the shows are bad thats why and I know thats hard for you to believe so its not convenient for you.
> 
> These are the facts for you buddy when wrestling loses viewers they're GONE PERMENENTLY and history shows this to be a fact. Dynamite will be NO different those viewers are gone permenently.


Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.

Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.

I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.

On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.

Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


----------



## Erik.

Boldgerg said:


> Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.
> 
> Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.
> 
> I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.
> 
> On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.
> 
> Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


What a great post.


----------



## taker1986

The Wood said:


> Jericho is there, Omega is there, Cody is there. Pac and Page aren't really draws now, are they? I don't know why people just naturally assume that people are going to come back once they tune out and decide that other stuff is more worthy of their time. It's going to be a battle to win people back.


Omega and Cody weren't on dynamite this week. Jericho was on commentary but hasn't featured in any match. PAC and Page are a bigger draw than anything NXT has to offer. 

As for people coming back, they will come back. Before this Virus hit we were getting blood and guts, which has obviously been put on hold, people will come back because we'll actually have continuous storyline and feuds to look forward too. Not to mention the possibility of a free agent showing up. 

AEW will go back to beating NXT regularly with ease when things get back to normal, just like they were before this pandemic hit.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Boldgerg said:


> Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.
> 
> Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.
> 
> I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.
> 
> On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.
> 
> Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


great post


----------



## ahmedgyro

so much for mr.megastar moxley


----------



## Mike E

Boldgerg said:


> Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.
> 
> Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.
> 
> I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.
> 
> On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.
> 
> Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


This man right here gets it! There are numerous reasons why people are not watching AEW wrestling right now. My guess why AEW's ratings have been faltering the most is because they are working with a third of their roster. They are missing several key guys they've been pushing since the beginning, mainly MJF and Hangman Page. You simply cannot compare a pre-taped reality show or a weekly episodic series to a wrestling TV show that's trying to film during this mess.


----------



## Geeee

Ozell Gray said:


> The worldwide pandemic means nothing to what Im talking about, even when you factor in the pandemic OTHER tv shows and even movies have seen INCREASES in tv ratings meanwhile wrestling hasn't.
> 
> 
> Coronavirus is putting a temporary halt to the decades-long decline in broadcast television viewership.
> TV ratings for the four major US broadcast networks—ABC, NBC, Fox, and CBS—have increased each week since March 1. Evening news shows are bringing in their largest audiences in decades, the New York Times reported. An average of 32 million Americans watched the evening news last week, up 42% from the same period last year.
> 
> 👉The pandemic has been especially good to reality TV, medical dramas, and shows about first responders. ABC’s _American Idol _has grown its total audience three weeks in a row. The March 18 episode of _Game of Games_, hosted by Ellen DeGeneres, had its most viewers in more than a year, jumping 36% from the prior week. The March 11 finale of _The Bachelor _was the dating show’s most-watched installment since 2016👈.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All broadcast TV needed to slow its ratings decline was a coronavirus pandemic
> 
> 
> TV ratings for virtually everything have increased in recent weeks, but especially for reality programs, medical dramas, and shows about first responders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the pandemic can't be used as an excuse at all. The tv ratings dropped because the shows are bad thats why and I know thats hard for you to believe so its not convenient for you.
> 
> These are the facts for you buddy when wrestling loses viewers they're GONE PERMENENTLY and history shows this to be a fact. Dynamite will be NO different those viewers are gone permenently.


Wrestling is unique though in that this pandemic directly hurts the quality of the product because fans can't be in the arena and a lot of the talent can't be there. This goes for all wrestling products, not just AEW.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.
> 
> Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.
> 
> I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.
> 
> On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.
> 
> Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


Are you really this dumb? Or do you need a reading comprehension class? I don't know which is worse you acting dumb or your reading skills.

Because you made a false claim that everything was down except the news which I proved is false and its nothing more than an excuse AEW's low tv ratings. No its laughably moronic of you to claim that everything except the news is down, and then when you get proven wrong you then change it to well of course tv ratings for has gone up because more people are at home; which contradicts your previous comments.

And nothing except a live crowd has changed in wrestling so your point makes no sense, and all of those prerecorded shows all SAW INCREASES in the tv ratings despite the pandemic and the news.

AEW weren't getting good tv ratings even before the pandemic and even when they had a live crowd in the arenas so again your point holds no water. Even if they had their top "stars" the tv ratings would still below just like they were low when they were there BEFORE this pandemic.

The ratings do mean something they mean something to the network because if they go lower then they'll be cancelled. Whether theres a pandemic out or not they'll get cancelled if the ratings go any lower because thats not an excuse as far as network executives are concerned. Everything that I've said as a fact you don't like it. Its a historical fact when wrestling loses viewers those viewers leave permenently and this is no different no matter how try to spin it. So you trying to use this as an excuse is dumb and you're delusional.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Geeee said:


> Wrestling is unique though in that this pandemic directly hurts the quality of the product because fans can't be in the arena and a lot of the talent can't be there. This goes for all wrestling products, not just AEW.


Well if people would have stated that instead of "oh well its the news and the pandemic" then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Its good to know that I can have a civil conversation with a sane person like you on here instead of dealing with the fanboys from the other posters.


----------



## kingfrass44

Boldgerg said:


> Are you really this obtuse, or are you just purposely trying to miss the point to support your argument? I'm not sure which is worse, to be honest.
> 
> Why are you comparing professional wrestling, which is usually filmed and shown live every week and has to adapt as such, with pre-recorded content that hasn't been at all affected by the pandemic? Of course people are going to watch more TV in general, everyone is stuck at fucking home, but to try and tar wrestling with the same brush as all other TV content is laughably moronic and simplistic.
> 
> I mean, I shouldn't really need to explain this, but if I were to go and watch the latest episode of Better Call Saul - for example - then I'm going to get the exact same episode that I would have gotten whether this pandemic existed or not, because it was filmed months ago. Nothing about the content or quality of that show, or any other pre-recorded programming, has changed because of the virus.
> 
> On the other hand, AEW's content and ability to put out their best product has taken a huge and direct hit from the pandemic, so of course people are going to tune out temporarily when they can't give them the top stars and it's having to be filmed in a tiny arena with no fans or atmosphere.
> 
> Again, you repeatedly harking on back to historical precedent with wrestling ratings means precisely jack fucking shit because the circumstances and reasoning here are so mind-blowingly different to any other point in the history of the industry. To use that as your argument and try to label it as if you're speaking in undeniable fact is beyond delusional.


Stupid excuses


----------



## Seafort

PavelGaborik said:


> They're sinking fast with these weak shows.
> 
> They should seriously consider going off the air until they get their roster back.


If they go off the air until their roster comes back...they're not coming back. The TV deal goes poof.


----------



## Seafort

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


NXT is never being cancelled as long as RAW is tied to USA.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Are you really this dumb? Or do you need a reading comprehension class? I don't know which is worse you acting dumb or your reading skills.
> 
> Because you made a false claim that everything was down except the news which I proved is false and its nothing more than an excuse AEW's low tv ratings. No its laughably moronic of you to claim that everything except the news is down, and then when you get proven wrong you then change it to well of course tv ratings for has gone up because more people are at home; which contradicts your previous comments.
> 
> And nothing except a live crowd has changed in wrestling so your point makes no sense, and all of those prerecorded shows all SAW INCREASES in the tv ratings despite the pandemic and the news.
> 
> AEW weren't getting good tv ratings even before the pandemic and even when they had a live crowd in the arenas so again your point holds no water. Even if they had their top "stars" the tv ratings would still below just like they were low when they were there BEFORE this pandemic.
> 
> The ratings do mean something they mean something to the network because if they go lower then they'll be cancelled. Whether theres a pandemic out or not they'll get cancelled if the ratings go any lower because thats not an excuse as far as network executives are concerned. Everything that I've said as a fact you don't like it. Its a historical fact when wrestling loses viewers those viewers leave permenently and this is no different no matter how try to spin it. So you trying to use this as an excuse is dumb and you're delusional.


An extremely long winded, rambling post full of yet more of your baseless assumptions and predictions that you're desperately trying to disguise and present as facts. You've tried to sound clever and only managed to further expose yourself as a small minded fool.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, can't fathom the bigger picture of the affect of this pandemic on the wrestling industry, the impact it's clearly having, why it's different to other forms of TV programming and content, and why comparing and applying historical rating trends against the here and now in this unprecedented, completely unique and different time is utterly ridiculous, then there is really no point in trying to have any sort of logical conversation with you. You clearly cannot see through your ignorance, bias and delusions.

Oh, and it wasn't me that said anything about "everything being down but the news", which the majority of your post is based upon, so I have no idea what the fuck you're inanely babbling on about there. That's embarrassing...


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> well here’s the thing, Aew are aware of that, if you listen to JRs podcast he says that no company in his lifetime will be at WWEs level, but that there is still plenty of money to be made in the business.
> 
> it Was WWE who decided to put NxT up against AEW because the stupid cunt in charge wants everyone else to fail.
> 
> There really was no need to do it other than to just end any “competition”.
> 
> Hence why most people want the underdog to do well.
> 
> ill never understand why anyone would have a different view on this, what benefit does aew failing have to a wrestling fan?


Wasn't NXT already on Wednesday night though?


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


So you're saying AEW lost the popular vote but won in the places that matter? NXT had more viewers, didn't they? USA have a package deal, so I'm sure they're pretty happy with NXT and Raw's accumulative viewers.

And you're right. The ratings shouldn't matter to the fans. What should matter is who put on the better show and in my opinion that was NXT this week.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> what's not working is not having their top tier [and most exposed] talent on tv. they've spent most of dynamite pushing MJF, Hangman, *Lucha Bros, PAC, *Jurassic Express etc. only for them to go MIA.
> 
> And this won't change for a long ass time. AEW need to start pushing who they have available - which is tough without a crowd. But here we are.


By having them lose every important match. 

The problem is they are doing some good stuff and some bad stuff. This is the perfect opportunity to say 'listen, some of our wrestlers aren't going to be here for a while. But we have the Best Bout Machine here and if you can prove yourself you can go one on one with him. If you can prove yourself you can go one on one with World Champ, Jon Moxley. You want to get put on the map? How about a match with Cody? Make yourself stand out kids" but instead you've got Nakazawas underwear being thrown in Omega's face. They aren't using their roster to the best potential. 

Hangman could still be sending in videos or live streaming on the big screen his commentary of Kenny Omega and his disappointment with him acting like a comedy wrestler. That would have saved the match.

PAC sending intense videos from home about how he hates being caged in and when he gets back the roster needs to watch out.

You know those small intro videos WWE used to do during entrances? MJF could have videos giving his opinion on the matches after each match. These can be added post production too.

Penelope Ford wearing a bikini in the crowd just because they fucking can.

WWE are copping it for being lazy but AEW aren't doing their best either. They need to have these people on TV somehow. They've got Matt Hardy and the Bucks shooting from home. Instead of giving Hager and Moxley 25 minutes, give them 18 and add in a couple of at home promos so these guys can stay on fucking TV.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> An extremely long winded, rambling post full of yet more of your baseless assumptions and predictions that you're desperately trying to disguise and present as facts. You've tried to sound clever and only managed to further expose yourself as a small minded fool.
> 
> If you, or anyone else for that matter, can't fathom the bigger picture of the affect of this pandemic on the wrestling industry, the impact it's clearly having, why it's different to other forms of TV programming and content, and why comparing and applying historical rating trends against the here and now in this unprecedented, completely unique and different time is utterly ridiculous, then there is really no point in trying to have any sort of logical conversation with you. You clearly cannot see through your ignorance, bias and delusions.
> 
> Oh, and it wasn't me that said anything about "everything being down but the news", which the majority of your post is based upon, so I have no idea what the fuck you're inanely babbling on about there. That's embarrassing...


 A baseless comment filled with nothing but excuses. No a ssumptions or predictions just facts fanboy. you triedto sound intelligent but only sound like an idiot.

Yeah because your excuses doesn't hold water because other tv shows saw increases in tv ratings so your point is baseless as it has been this whole time. Dynamite's tv ratings are low because its not a good show period. And they're not getting those viewers back thats they lost. You can't just can't see your stupidity, delusions, and ignorance.

😂 You're embarrassing yourself with stupid comments and pointless bantering. Get help because you need itso can stop your baseless, emotional rants😂.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> A baseless comment filled with nothing but excuses. No a ssumptions or predictions just facts fanboy. you triedto sound intelligent but only sound like an idiot.
> 
> Yeah because your excuses doesn't hold water because other tv shows saw increases in tv ratings so your point is baseless as it has been this whole time. Dynamite's tv ratings are low because its not a good show period. And they're not getting those viewers back thats they lost. You can't just can't see your stupidity, delusions, and ignorance.
> 
> 😂 You're embarrassing yourself with stupid comments and pointless bantering. Get help because you need itso can stop your baseless, emotional rants😂.


You really are just making a complete fool of yourself and showing your immaturity at this point. Do carry on.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> You really are making a complete fool of yourself now. Do carry on.


You really are an idiot but keep making excuses.


----------



## Pippen94

Nxt finished outside top 50 again - actually dropped. That's not a win!


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> If they go off the air until their roster comes back...they're not coming back. The TV deal goes poof.


If crowds are back by August it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a two week break, evaluate thoroughly and return with a huge season premiere or slightly rebooted AEW. For example, a All In spectacular on television and ideally a move to Thursday nights.

Easier said than down, I will admit. Plus, this social distancing could forbid mass gatherings for a long time.


----------



## kingfrass44

ahmedgyro said:


> so much for mr.megastar moxley


You are ignorant
The same happened to Chris Jericho


----------



## sideon

optikk sucks said:


> NXT aren’t winning. AEW is winning on key demo, which means it makes more money than NXT for its network. Which means that TNT will be happier than USA. Which means it’s less likely going to be dropped compared to NXT.
> 
> I mean ratings really don’t matter during the pandemic, so who cares really.


Are ya'll just talking out of your asses now? This demo crap wasn't a factor until Alvarez kept bringing up to justify AEW's crappy ratings. Seriously you smarks need to be real with yourselves when it comes to this lame Wednesday night "war".


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> Are ya'll just talking out of your asses now? This demo crap wasn't a factor until Alvarez kept bringing up to justify AEW's crappy ratings. Seriously you smarks need to be real with yourselves when it comes to this lame Wednesday night "war".


Aew ranked 28 whereas nxt was outside top 50 - rankings based on demo!!!
Why am I responding to you?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> Aew ranked 28 whereas nxt was outside top 50 - rankings based on demo!!!
> Why am I responding to you?


The usual anti-AEW marks all responded to me. They don’t like facts 😂


----------



## fabi1982

sideon said:


> Are ya'll just talking out of your asses now? This demo crap wasn't a factor until Alvarez kept bringing up to justify AEW's crappy ratings. Seriously you smarks need to be real with yourselves when it comes to this lame Wednesday night "war".


Thats the funny thing, no one cares about demo for RAW or SD and they just go by pure viewership and say "oh its x% down", even with both being top 3-5 of the demo each week. But when it comes to precious AEW it always is the demo that counts, because you know what, they are "winning" there.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> “People are negative about SD and RAW but not AEW”


You poor poor man.
Getting confused with positive AEW fans and negative WWE fans.
not the same group btw.


your arguments are now transparent. You think the AEW fans actually discuss and lament WWE for their ratings. I spend enough time in WWE sxn to know no diehard AEW fan here comments on WWE ratings bro.

WWE just have a negative fanbase. Sorry that AEW don’t 😂


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> A baseless comment filled with nothing but excuses. No a ssumptions or predictions just facts fanboy. you triedto sound intelligent but only sound like an idiot.
> 
> Yeah because your excuses doesn't hold water because other tv shows saw increases in tv ratings so your point is baseless as it has been this whole time. Dynamite's tv ratings are low because its not a good show period. And they're not getting those viewers back thats they lost. You can't just can't see your stupidity, delusions, and ignorance.
> 
> 😂 You're embarrassing yourself with stupid comments and pointless bantering. Get help because you need itso can stop your baseless, emotional rants😂.


the only person anyone thinks is embarrassing is you, no matter how much you try and make out you haven’t been proven to look stupid.


----------



## Danielallen1410

fabi1982 said:


> Thats the funny thing, no one cares about demo for RAW or SD and they just go by pure viewership and say "oh its x% down", even with both being top 3-5 of the demo each week. But when it comes to precious AEW it always is the demo that counts, because you know what, they are "winning" there.


surely both things are important.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> the only person anyone thinks is embarrassing is you, no matter how much you try and make out you haven’t been proven to look stupid.


The embarrassing person is you no matter how much stupidity you comment. You've already proven to be an embarrassing person just by your stupid posts like this one 😅.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ozell Gray said:


> The embarrassing person is you no matter how much stupidity you comment. You've already proven to be an embarrassing person just by your stupid posts like this one 😅.


what a terrible comeback 😭 you are clearly about 16


----------



## rbl85

On the last newsletter :


> the Kenny Omega & Michael Nakazawa vs. Best Friends DDT style match, since that match went over two quarters we can see that it was a growth match and in fact, the ending nearly hit the high point of the show for AEW.





> As far as a peaks, the only time AEW broke 800,000 was late in the Kenny Omega & Michael Nakazawa vs. Best Friends, which was also the match that got the most criticism.


The match was a draw.

Strange i thought this match showed why wrestling was not popular anymore.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I don’t understand why they’ve gone with so many matches that involve jobbers or shite like marko stunt on these tapings.

They have available 

omega 
cody
jericho
gueverra 
archer
brodie lee
allin 

surely they could have mixed it up and had some of these in action against each other 

for instance you could book 

omega vs Cody in the main event one week, yes it’s face vs face but does it matter with no crowd, you could build it as them wanting to put on a show during the pandemic.

you could get archer over even more if he had a match with omega that goes to a time limit draw.

they are doing allin Guevara next week which is ok

jericho cody rematch from full gear could be done

they could do a hardy compound match if they can get Jericho over there.

the young bucks could have a cinematic match at their house if you can get a referee in there.

theres all sorts they could be doing but they seem to have just put throwaway matches on that aren’t appealing on paper.


----------



## EmbassyForever

rbl85 said:


> On the last newsletter :
> 
> 
> 
> The match was a draw.
> 
> Strange i thought this match showed why wrestling was not popular anymore.


just like Stunt's TV debut...


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> I don’t understand why they’ve gone with so many matches that involve jobbers or shite like marko stunt on these tapings.
> 
> They have available
> 
> omega
> cody
> jericho
> gueverra
> archer
> brodie lee
> allin


All the matches were taped the same day, you can't have to guys do 10 matches in one day.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> I don’t understand why they’ve gone with so many matches that involve jobbers or shite like marko stunt on these tapings.
> 
> They have available
> 
> omega
> cody
> jericho
> gueverra
> archer
> brodie lee
> allin
> 
> surely they could have mixed it up and had some of these in action against each other
> 
> for instance you could book
> 
> omega vs Cody in the main event one week, yes it’s face vs face but does it matter with no crowd, you could build it as them wanting to put on a show during the pandemic.
> 
> you could get archer over even more if he had a match with omega that goes to a time limit draw.
> 
> they are doing allin Guevara next week which is ok
> 
> jericho cody rematch from full gear could be done
> 
> they could do a hardy compound match if they can get Jericho over there.
> 
> the young bucks could have a cinematic match at their house if you can get a referee in there.
> 
> theres all sorts they could be doing but they seem to have just put throwaway matches on that aren’t appealing on paper.


Because they can't afford to be racking up losses for guys they want to use. They don't care about Sammy and Darby getting losses. But they're not going to put Cody, Jericho, Omega, Lee, and Brodie in situations where they may have to take a bunch of singles losses.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> All the matches were taped the same day, you can't have to guys do 10 matches in one day.


you only need to have one big main event every week.

i mean what is the main event next week? The matches advertised are dull.

why couldnt they have taped two matches for Cody each of the main eventers?

week one Cody vs spears i done 

week two Moxley vs hager


week three. open with Allin vs Guevara main event Jericho vs Omega 

week four. Open with Dustin vs archer (advance the Cody storyline) main event Brodie lee vs Cody 

week five open with a tag like Guevara and Jericho vs Cody and dustin 

week six open with archer and omega end with a match between Jericho and hardy at the hardy compound.

all that’s much more interesting than what they have planned next week.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> Because they can't afford to be racking up losses for guys they want to use. They don't care about Sammy and Darby getting losses. But they're not going to put Cody, Jericho, Omega, Lee, and Brodie in situations where they may have to take a bunch of singles losses.


You can lose matches and still look strong. Look at AJ styles vs Roman reigns at extreme rules 2016 for an example.

im currently watching wcw early 96, hogan, savage, sting, Luger, flair were all constantly wrestling each other and trading wins, losses and dqs, guess what, they were starting to win the ratings wars here.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> On the last newsletter :
> 
> 
> 
> The match was a draw.
> 
> Strange i thought this match showed why wrestling was not popular anymore.


People were obviously switching over to see if the bullshit had finished yet


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> You can lose matches and still look strong. Look at AJ styles vs Roman reigns at extreme rules 2016 for an example.
> 
> im currently watching wcw early 96, hogan, savage, sting, Luger, flair were all constantly wrestling each other and trading wins, losses and dqs, guess what, they were starting to win the ratings wars here.


Well AEW doesn't do DQs and I don't disagree that you can lose a match and still be a top guy. But most hardcore fans which is AEWs core don't see it that way. You have any of those guys lose a match or two and their fans will cry burial. You also probably don't want them losing since they keep official records.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> Well AEW doesn't do DQs and I don't disagree that you can lose a match and still be a top guy. But most hardcore fans which is AEWs core don't see it that way. You have any of those guys lose a match or two and their fans will cry burial. You also probably don't want them losing since they keep official records.


it’s stupid that they don’t do dqs. Far too much catering to sharks, DQs are a good way to advance storylines.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> you only need to have one big main event every week.
> 
> i mean what is the main event next week? The matches advertised are dull.
> 
> why couldnt they have taped two matches for Cody each of the main eventers?
> 
> week one Cody vs spears i done
> 
> week two Moxley vs hager
> 
> 
> week three. open with Allin vs Guevara main event Jericho vs Omega
> 
> week four. Open with Dustin vs archer (advance the Cody storyline) main event Brodie lee vs Cody
> 
> week five open with a tag like Guevara and Jericho vs Cody and dustin
> 
> week six open with archer and omega end with a match between Jericho and hardy at the hardy compound.
> 
> all that’s much more interesting than what they have planned next week.


Lot of those matches does not make sense.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> it’s stupid that they don’t do dqs. Far too much catering to sharks, DQs are a good way to advance storylines.


Agrees but apparently in this day and age DQs and non-finishes have no place lol


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> Lot of those matches does not make sense.


jericho vs omega writes itself, face and heel, elite and inner circle. Just put the match togehter.
dustin vs archer to advance Cody storyline, Cody vs Brodie Lee just put it together, face vs heel.
guevara and Jericho vs Cody and Dustin is fine

infact going through this I can’t see which match you say doesn’t make sense?


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> *jericho vs omega* writes itself, face and heel, elite and inner circle. Just put the match togehter.
> dustin vs archer to advance Cody storyline, *Cody vs Brodie* Lee just put it together, face vs heel.
> guevara and Jericho vs Cody and Dustin is fine
> 
> infact going through this I can’t see which match you say doesn’t make sense?


You have to keep those match for when the fans can come back in the arena.

Those 2 matches need and deserve a crowd.


----------



## WhyTooJay

rbl85 said:


> You have to keep those match for when the fans can come back in the arena.
> 
> Those 2 matches need and deserve a crowd.


We don't know when there will be a crowd again. What if there isn't one for the rest of the year, into 2021? At some point you just gotta put out the best product you can, regardless of the circumstances.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> You have to keep those match for when the fans can come back in the arena.
> 
> Those 2 matches need and deserve a crowd.


as Bischoff used to say in wcw as his reasons (early on not later on when it was desperation) for putting big matches on nitro....you give the fans enough but leave them wanting more, you could have these matches come to an inconclusive finish such as a dq, heel chests to win,draw etc, then when crowds come back have the blow Off match.


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> as Bischoff used to say in wcw as his reasons (early on not later on when it was desperation) for putting big matches on nitro....you give the fans enough but leave them wanting more, you could have these matches come to an inconclusive finish such as a dq, heel chests to win,draw etc, then when crowds come back have the blow Off match.


Am I wrong in saying AEW made it clear from the start that they won't have big matches end in DQs or being inconclusive? They want clear winners?


----------



## Kishido

I love the double standards

WWE drops... LOL on your face. Empty arenas are no reason and the demo rating not important 

AEW drops... People bring up empty arenas and demo rating

PS
I watch both and do not give a damn about brand loyality


----------



## Ozell Gray

Danielallen1410 said:


> what a terrible comeback 😭 you are clearly about 16


What a trash post and comeback you're clearly 8 years old 😂.


----------



## rbl85

Kishido said:


> I love the double standards
> 
> WWE drops... LOL on your face. Empty arenas are no reason and the demo rating not important
> 
> AEW drops... People bring up empty arenas and demo rating
> 
> PS
> I watch both and do not give a damn about brand loyality


Except that the majority of people who post on the AEW threads don't post on the WWE ones.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> On the last newsletter :
> 
> 
> 
> The match was a draw.
> 
> Strange i thought this match showed why wrestling was not popular anymore.


because people enjoyed car crash tele.

in the attitude era worse shit happened and that was the height of pro-wrestling


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Kishido said:


> “People are negative about SD and RAW but not AEW”


I fixed your quote for you

Let's get one thing straight lol. 99% of people who are negative about WWE do not watch AEW. Different fanbases.


----------



## taker1986

Danielallen1410 said:


> you only need to have one big main event every week.
> 
> i mean what is the main event next week? The matches advertised are dull.
> 
> why couldnt they have taped two matches for Cody each of the main eventers?
> 
> week one Cody vs spears i done
> 
> week two Moxley vs hager
> 
> 
> week three. open with Allin vs Guevara main event Jericho vs Omega
> 
> week four. Open with Dustin vs archer (advance the Cody storyline) main event Brodie lee vs Cody
> 
> week five open with a tag like Guevara and Jericho vs Cody and dustin
> 
> week six open with archer and omega end with a match between Jericho and hardy at the hardy compound.
> 
> all that’s much more interesting than what they have planned next week.


I presume Sammy/Darby will main event next week. But I think you're right here, they need to put out more big matches with what they have. 

Last weeks main even was fine with the mox/Hager title match, but first hour was pretty weak, opening with let's say Omega/Brodie and finishing with the title match would've been far better, scrap the Spears match completely. 

Next week you could open with a tag match between Cody/Omega v Archer/Brodie and end with Sammy/Allin. I think that's acceptable. 

Week 3. You can open with Dustin/Archer SF match and end with Jericho/Omega

Week 4 open with Shida/Britt first blood match and end with Cody/Allin SF

Week 5 you can open with Cody/Omega v Archer/Wardlow and end with Hardy/Jericho at Hardy compound if that's possible. 

I'm between all that you can do promos with Jericho, Moxley, MJF etc. No reason for Cody and Omega to be left off TV.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> What a trash post and comeback you're clearly 8 years old 😂.


So you've resorted to basically mimicking whatever post you're responding to like a small child?

Grow up. It's genuinely embarrassing.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> So you've resorted to basically mimicking whatever post you're responding to like a small child?
> 
> Grow up. It's genuinely embarrassing.


So you're showing your idiocy on whatever post you're replying to like a 5 year old?

Go away you're an ebarrassment.


----------



## bdon

You can not keep having Omega and Cody eat L’s. Or do you not remember watching the last few Dynamites prior to the new year?


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> So you're showing your idiocy on whatever post you're replying to like a 5 year old?
> 
> Go away you're an ebarrassment.


... what? You're literally not even making any sense any more. Every post is an undeniably childlike "no you are!" type response and you're not demonstrating any ability to have a conversation or reasonable, logical debate. You're coming off like either someone of extremely low intelligence or as someone of a very young age, at this point.

Let me guess, your response is yet again going to mimic mine and simply try and flip everything I've said back on me. Yawn.


----------



## Dizzie

I dont get the big deal about aew losing to nxt by a tiny margin? Even the drop in numbers is not a massive in the current situation, same applies to wwe's lower viewership.

it's more wait and see when things are back to normal but the lower viewership all round for wrestling may take some time get better numbers as neither aew or wwe are doing enough to make a compelling product, the only thing wwe have on their side is long time hardcore wwe obsessive marks who's life's revolve around the company from the minute they wake up to the minute they go asleep. Aew is too new to have created such a fanbase.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> ... what? You're literally not even making any sense any more. Every post is an undeniably childlike "no you are!" type response and you're not demonstrating any ability to have a conversation or reasonable, logical debate. You're coming off like either someone of extremely low intelligence or as someone of a very young age, at this point.
> 
> Let me guess, your response is yet again going to mimic mine and simply try and flip everything I've said back on me. Yawn.


Im making perfect sense its you who isn't making sense. Every post by you is "you're wrong but I can't prove what Im saying so I get mad and Im making 5 year old posts." Funny coming from a guy who hasn't presented ANY evidence in this whole conversation meanwhile I've already presented evidence proving what I said but nice try. You have no intelligence and is a 5 or 8 year old child whose just writing emotional, pointless posts.

Let me guess you're going to try and flip everything that I've said on me and you're going to write yet again another braindead post getting emotional.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Im making perfect sense its you who isn't making sense. Every post by you is "you're wrong but I can't prove what Im saying so I get mad and Im making 5 year old posts." Funny coming from a guy who hasn't presented ANY evidence in this whole conversation meanwhile I've already presented evidence proving what I said but nice try. You have no intelligence and is a 5 or 8 year old child whose just writing emotional, pointless posts.
> 
> Let me guess you're going to try and flip everything that I've said on me and you're going to write yet again another braindead post getting emotional.


Pathetic.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Pathetic.


Stupid.


----------



## Boldgerg

Well at least we've discovered the most immature, delusional, horrendous poster on the forum. Congratulations, Ozell Gray!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Those numbers, ouch.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Atleast we know who the dumbest and most delusional poster is in this forum. congratulations @Boldgerg for being the dumbest poster here.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Atleast we know who the dumbest and most delusional poster is in this forum. congratulations @Boldgerg for being the dumbest poster here.


Fantastic post and yet another brilliantly constructed, punctuation perfect, grammatically excellent sentence.

10/10.

("Atleast" isn't a word and you start new sentences with a full stop, buddy).


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Excellent post and yet another brilliantly constructed, punctuation perfect, grammatically excellent sentence.
> 
> 10/10.


Funny coming from a guy who can't even write a proper sentence and puts commas in place sthey don't belong.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Funny coming from a guy who can't even write a proper sentence and puts commas in place sthey don't belong.


Another one! Brilliant!


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Another one! Brilliant!


Another dumb one but keep going.


----------



## Boldgerg

Insufferable.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Delusional.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Delusional.


Please just fuck off now. I honestly cannot stand you. We can go around and around but you are a dog shit poster with cringe-worthy delusions of grandeur and an unbearably irritating, insufferable cunt.

Reply with yet another mimic that once again highlights your lack of intelligence and ability to structure a meaningful response without copying the other persons post, then fuck off and go back to dribbling all over yourself, you absolute fucking shithouse.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> You poor poor man.
> Getting confused with positive AEW fans and negative WWE fans.
> not the same group btw.
> 
> 
> your arguments are now transparent. You think the AEW fans actually discuss and lament WWE for their ratings. I spend enough time in WWE sxn to know no diehard AEW fan here comments on WWE ratings bro.
> 
> WWE just have a negative fanbase. Sorry that AEW don’t 😂


Then we read on different wrestling forums


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Please just fuck off now. I honestly cannot stand you. We can go around and around but you are a dog shit poster with cringe-worthy delusions of grandeur and an unbearably irritating, insufferable cunt.
> 
> Reply with yet another mimic that once again highlights your lack of intelligence and ability to structure a meaningful response without copying the other persons post, then fuck off and go back to dribbling all over yourself, you absolute fucking shithouse.


Oh look the dummy came with another emotional and pointless rant 🤣. You need to stop replying to me because your posts are braindead retardationat its highest order. You're a delusional idiot that can't write a proper sentence and doesn't like facts.

Continue writing and mimicking all your other posts and continue to look like the idiot that you are by writing meaningless posts like this one. Your posts demonstrates and shows that have no intelligence whatsoever so go back to your mom's basement little boy.


----------



## Boldgerg

Ozell Gray said:


> Oh look the dummy came with another emotional and pointless rant 🤣. You need to stop replying to me because your posts are braindead retardationat its highest order. You're a delusional idiot that can't write a proper sentence and doesn't like facts.
> 
> Continue writing and mimicking all your other posts and continue to look like the idiot that you are by writing meaningless posts like this one. Your posts demonstrates and shows that have no intelligence whatsoever so go back to your mom's basement little boy.


Go on out of it shit cunt.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Boldgerg said:


> Go on out of it shit cunt.


Go get your mom to help you out little boy.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Boldgerg said:


> Go on out of it shit cunt.


Dude, just stop fucking responding to him.


----------



## Boldgerg

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude, just stop fucking responding to him.


Yeah, I'm done.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Then we read on different wrestling forums


i only come here.


----------



## WhyTooJay

Ozell Gray said:


> Stupid.


Serious question, why do you dedicate so much time/energy into a wrestling company you don't like/want to see fold? Are WWE threads just that boring?


----------



## Ozell Gray

WhyTooJay said:


> Serious question, why do you dedicate so much time/energy into a wrestling company you don't like/want to see fold? Are WWE threads just that boring?


I speak the truth and AEW fans can't accept it because its not something positive on the company.


----------



## WhyTooJay

WhyTooJay said:


> Serious question, why do you dedicate so much time/energy into a wrestling company you don't like/want to see fold? Are WWE threads just that boring?


That doesn't answer the question. If they "can't accept it" maybe um...leave? I don't get the thought process behind spending hours going back and forth with fans of a product you don't like. I don't like Raw/Smackdown/NXT. I don't watch, nor post in the threads arguing with fans on why it sucks/is a failure. Life is so much easier that way.


----------



## Ozell Gray

WhyTooJay said:


> That doesn't answer the question. If they "can't accept it" maybe um...leave? I don't get the thought process behind spending hours going back and forth with fans of a product you don't like. I don't like Raw/Smackdown/NXT. I don't watch, nor post in the threads arguing with fans on why it sucks/is a failure. Life is so much easier that way.


It does answer the qeustion and I don't have to leave if I don't want to. I make comments and people reply tome so I reply to them and vice versa. I don't argue with people I just have discussions with them.


----------



## Danielallen1410

finally he’s banned.
so can we go back to having a logical discussion on how they can improve ratings.

I get why people don’t agree with my ideas about big matches but would be an interesting discussion for people to have ideas.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Bryan Alvarez totally isn't biased or shilling for AEW... no sir reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Danielallen1410

NathanMayberry said:


> View attachment 85166
> 
> 
> Bryan Alvarez totally isn't biased or shilling for AEW... no sir reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


well aew wins the demo every week so he doesn’t need to mention it when they win both


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> finally he’s banned.
> so can we go back to having a logical discussion on how they can improve ratings.
> 
> I get why people don’t agree with my ideas about big matches but would be an interesting discussion for people to have ideas.


I actually don't think that even with big matches the ratings would be really better, maybe a couple thousands here and there but nothing important.'

Also something important that i don't think we talk about is that the show (might be movies i don't know) who's airing right before Dynamite drop 30% between the first non crowded show and the second crowded show.

Basically without the drop in ratings of the movies,show who's airing just before Dynamite, AEW would have beaten NXT in the numbers of viewers.
In comparison the show just before NXT usually ends with +/- 1M viewers (it's way more than the movie/show on TNT)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

WhyTooJay said:


> Serious question, why do you dedicate so much time/energy into a wrestling company you don't like/want to see fold? Are WWE threads just that boring?


Not to defend Ozell Gray who has made himself look absolutely awful in this thread but TNA fans used to the ask same questions back in the day.

I think us "haters" or "Anti-AEWers" come to the AEW forum in hopes of things improving and AEW finally delivering on what they promised last year. We still want that athletic style product that is different to WWE and then we get PWG with a budget which is of course is going to make us comment on how much it sucks.

A recent example is how AEW told me for weeks that Hager Vs Moxley was going to be awesome and then I watched it and it was awful. Am I just not meant to comment on it being awful?


----------



## Cult03

NathanMayberry said:


> View attachment 85166
> 
> 
> Bryan Alvarez totally isn't biased or shilling for AEW... no sir reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


I remember when his gimmick was "I'm going to post two numbers without any excuses or reasoning" and now that AEW is losing total viewers he's completely changed his approach. What a twat


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> i only come here.


I even remember you making fun of the WWR ratings not so long ago (if Im not mistaking)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> I even remember you making fun of the WWR ratings not so long ago (if Im not mistaking)


If you say so.
I don’t need to defend myself. If you’re interested, please go and stalk my replies in any ratings thread. kthxbye


----------



## Zbagint

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not to defend Ozell Gray who has made himself look absolutely awful in this thread but TNA fans used to the ask same questions back in the day.
> 
> I think us "haters" or "Anti-AEWers" come to the AEW forum in hopes of things improving and AEW finally delivering on what they promised last year. We still want that athletic style product that is different to WWE and then we get PWG with a budget which is of course is going to make us comment on how much it sucks.
> 
> A recent example is how AEW told me for weeks that Hager Vs Moxley was going to be awesome and then I watched it and it was awful. Am I just not meant to comment on it being awful?


Is there any other show you would dedicate this much time to in hopes of it improving? Nobody does this with anything other than wrestling. You wouldn't see someone sit through dozen of episodes of, I don't know, 13 Reasons Why and say "Man the writing of this show sucks, the characters aren't relatable and the morals are awful...I'm gonna keep watching to see if it improves!" This show has been on the air for months, just how much time do you need to determine that you don't and will likely never like the show? And if you REALLY want it to improve, why not just check in every few months to see if it has? Not only is it irrational to come to a fan forum of something and criticize them for enjoying the product, but for your own sake it's not a very good use of your time. And this is coming from someone that used to do this on the TNA forums.

I'm also curious what you thought AEW would be because I knew very little about it before it's TNT debut and I 100% expected it to be PWG with a budget. But I was completely fine with that. And I'd say lately they've went beyond that with the cinematic character building


----------



## Erik.

Zbagint said:


> Is there any other show you would dedicate this much time to in hopes of it improving? Nobody does this with anything other than wrestling. You wouldn't see someone sit through dozen of episodes of, I don't know, 13 Reasons Why and say "Man the writing of this show sucks, the characters aren't relatable and the morals are awful...I'm gonna keep watching to see if it improves!" This show has been on the air for months, just how much time do you need to determine that you don't and will likely never like the show? And if you REALLY want it to improve, why not just check in every few months to see if it has? Not only is it irrational to come to a fan forum of something and criticize them for enjoying the product, but for your own sake it's not a very good use of your time. And this is coming from someone that used to do this on the TNA forums.
> 
> I'm also curious what you thought AEW would be because I knew very little about it before it's TNT debut and I 100% expected it to be PWG with a budget. But I was completely fine with that. And I'd say lately they've went beyond that with the cinematic character building


People saw TNT, billionaire owner and instantly expected WCW. 

They were the fools. Not AEW.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I’d really like to know what people expected?

when I first heard about aew I pretty much thought it looks like they are going to be indie on a big budget and give wrestlers control over their characters.

that’s exactly what they’ve done.


----------



## Danielallen1410

MJF said:


> People saw TNT, billionaire owner and instantly expected WCW.
> 
> They were the fools. Not AEW.


this.
i honestly think people have a hard time realising that wrestling just isn’t popular anymore, we are a niche market of fans, I have a group of about 15 friends, everyone of us loved wrestling as teenagers, now in our thirties there are two of us left watching.


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> I’d really like to know what people expected?
> 
> when I first heard about aew I pretty much thought it looks like they are going to be indie on a big budget and give wrestlers control over their characters.
> 
> that’s exactly what they’ve done.


I personally expected just a different alternative to WWE that was on easily accessibly television. 

I find much more enjoyment watching AEW than I do any WWE product and it's just easier to sit through. 

People just seem to take wrestling too seriously. Dissecting and nitpicking the littlest of things because for some reason they're passionate about what other people, they've met, might like or dislike if they happen to tune in.


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> this.
> i honestly think people have a hard time realising that wrestling just isn’t popular anymore, we are a niche market of fans, I have a group of about 15 friends, everyone of us loved wrestling as teenagers, now in our thirties there are two of us left watching.


Same mate.

34 this year, me and my mates grew up towards the end of the Golden Generation, stuck through the New Gen as we were kids and knew no different then watched the Attitude Era unfold.

Most were completely turned off by the Invasion - some stuck around during the RA era though I didn't know they were still watching (probably ashamed) - and now as far as I'm aware I'm the only one who casually watches and that's only AEW.


----------



## rbl85

I think that a lot of people have memory issues because they always praise the product of 15-20 years ago but they seems to have forgot that in fact there was a LOT of dumb/ bad segments every weeks.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> I think that a lot of people have memory issues because they always praise the product of 15-20 years ago but they seems to have forgot that in fact there was a LOT of dumb/ bad segments every weeks.


Its what people grew up with. Everything's better from memory. The power of nostalgia. Characters resonate with you. 

Of course they then provide the numbers as if the Big Bang Theory doesn't get 15m+ viewers and that's absolute dogshit.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> CM Punk I'd love to know what they offered him. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Lesnar money.


Bare in mind their offer for Edge was apparently bottom of the barrel scraping. Tony and Punk also apparently fell out during negotiations and the deal on the table was rumoured to be insulting to Punk. I highly doubt it was anywhere near Lesnar money.


----------



## the_flock

optikk sucks said:


> MJF
> Page
> Cody
> PAC
> Lucha Bros
> Jungleboy and Luchasaurus
> Bucks
> 
> ie the guys that have been prominently featured since Dynamite's inception
> 
> All MIA.
> 
> And the usual anti-AEW marks think there's an L to be taken here. Not at all.


All Indie geeks who don't draw.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_flock said:


> All Indie geeks who don't draw.


If you say so 👍


----------



## the_flock

Danielallen1410 said:


> I’d really like to know what people expected?
> 
> when I first heard about aew I pretty much thought it looks like they are going to be indie on a big budget and give wrestlers control over their characters.
> 
> that’s exactly what they’ve done.


With the name All Elite. I was expecting the Creme de la Creme. Cody also stating they wouldn't hire anyone and everyone and were only looking at certain people. 

I was also expecting a genuine alternative to WWE. 

With them stating they were going for a more sports based show with rankings and analysis. Where wins and losses matter, I thought we would get a hard hitting, pure wrestling show. 

They also said they had written 6 months of storyline in advance and had a clear direction. 

Since then they've essentially gone against everything they promised in the beginning and making the most basic mistakes.


----------



## the_flock

rbl85 said:


> I think that a lot of people have memory issues because they always praise the product of 15-20 years ago but they seems to have forgot that in fact there was a LOT of dumb/ bad segments every weeks.


Probably because it was a lot better in every department. Even its worst segments were better than today's best. 

They actually had well known household names for a start from top to bottom. The wrestlers actually looked like action heroes and mega stars. Even the low card guys would be world champions in todays climate. 

Take someone like Marko Stunt flossing in the middle of the ring. Mike Awesome would have ran down the ring and launched his ass in to the 3rd row and that would have been the end of him. Guys like Darby Allin would have had their heads taken off by guys like Balls Mahoney.


----------



## El Hammerstone

the_flock said:


> Probably because it was a lot better in every department. Even its worst segments were better than today's best.
> 
> They actually had well known household names for a start from top to bottom. The wrestlers actually looked like action heroes and mega stars. Even the low card guys would be world champions in todays climate.
> 
> Take someone like Marko Stunt flossing in the middle of the ring. *Mike Awesome would have ran down the ring and launched his ass in to the 3rd row* and that would have been the end of him. Guys like Darby Allin would have had their heads taken off by guys like Balls Mahoney.


So could anyone on this forum in all honesty.


----------



## Danielallen1410

the_flock said:


> With the name All Elite. I was expecting the Creme de la Creme. Cody also stating they wouldn't hire anyone and everyone and were only looking at certain people.
> 
> I was also expecting a genuine alternative to WWE.
> 
> With them stating they were going for a more sports based show with rankings and analysis. Where wins and losses matter, I thought we would get a hard hitting, pure wrestling show.
> 
> They also said they had written 6 months of storyline in advance and had a clear direction.
> 
> Since then they've essentially gone against everything they promised in the beginning and making the most basic mistakes.


the sports orientated path they went down early on lead to a massive drop in viewers. They had to change it, unfortunately people like you are in a minority, if anything they are still catering to hardcore too much.... they need to introduce dqs, false finishes etc, they are holding off matches because of this stupid idea of every match needing a conclusive finish.

think about wrestling’s boom period.
austin vs McMahon was advertised the first night raw took the lead in the ratings, that match didn’t happen, dude love interfered.

now ofcourse you don’t want this every week but this sort of thing adds to a storyline, give the fans a taste of what they want, but hold off for a conclusive match.

i think the hardcore fans are ruining wrestling because promotions are listening to them too much when it’s not the hardcore fans that will boost ratings.


----------



## Danielallen1410

the_flock said:


> Probably because it was a lot better in every department. Even its worst segments were better than today's best.
> 
> They actually had well known household names for a start from top to bottom. The wrestlers actually looked like action heroes and mega stars. Even the low card guys would be world champions in todays climate.
> 
> Take someone like Marko Stunt flossing in the middle of the ring. Mike Awesome would have ran down the ring and launched his ass in to the 3rd row and that would have been the end of him. Guys like Darby Allin would have had their heads taken off by guys like Balls Mahoney.


who realistically in wrestling now is the equivalent to those stars? Wrestling’s changed, it’s become about workrate, which doesn’t draw.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Danielallen1410 said:


> i think the hardcore fans are ruining wrestling because promotions are listening to them too much when it’s not the hardcore fans that will boost ratings.


But don't you know dude, wrestling fans are a niche audience and we just need to accept that fact and give up on trying to grow; we worry too much about the casual fans who will never watch again anyway, so why not just say fuck it and double down on the overtly stupid shit that only hardcore fans will be into; let's keep wrestling all to ourselves, and anyone who objects to this is just nitpicking and looking for things to complain about.


----------



## Danielallen1410

El Hammerstone said:


> But don't you know dude, wrestling fans are a niche audience and we just need to accept that fact and give up on trying to grow; we worry too much about the casual fans who will never watch again anyway, so why not just say fuck it and double down on the overtly stupid shit that only hardcore fans will be into; let's keep wrestling all to ourselves, and anyone who objects to this is just nitpicking and looking for things to complain about.


this attitude leads to wrestling just being full of ROH type promotions.

there is plenty of these companies already. Aew is supposed to offer more than that and to do that they have to cater to casuals.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Danielallen1410 said:


> this attitude leads to wrestling just being full of ROH type promotions.
> 
> there is plenty of these companies already. Aew is supposed to offer more than that and to do that they have to cater to casuals.


I hope you know that I was being sarcastic, I'm simply reciting what others have spewed.


----------



## Danielallen1410

El Hammerstone said:


> I hope you know that I was being sarcastic, I'm simply reciting what others have spewed.


Sorry 🤣


----------



## the_flock

Danielallen1410 said:


> who realistically in wrestling now is the equivalent to those stars? Wrestling’s changed, it’s become about workrate, which doesn’t draw.


It's all about work rate to the smarks. Not to the casuals, that's why apart from the hardcore fans no one gives two shits. The workrate era is about 10 years+ old now. We're getting towards the end of the reality era, but no company has really touched upon it apart from WWE in their ride along series and total bellas/divas. AEW to a small extent in their BTE series, but that isn't even on TV, so no one has any idea about storylines apart from the few who watch it, another fuck up by AEW. 

There are no larger than life characters in AEW apart from Jericho, but even he is at the tail end of his career. WWE have plenty of upper echelon stars who appeal to the masses, they also have a wealth of older stars who can push the needle in cameo appearances when they need to.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> this attitude leads to wrestling just being full of ROH type promotions.
> 
> there is plenty of these companies already. *Aew is supposed to offer more than that and to do that they have to cater to casuals.*


The thing is to cater to casuals i think that AEW should do way more thing that people in this forum don't like.

Casuals like the opposite of what people on this forum like.

I mean how many people on this forum shit on the tag match with Omega/Nakazawa vs best friends ?

Yet the 2 quarters in which this match happened had the most viewers and it's not like the people started to watch and tuned out during the match. The number of viewers was growing during all the match.


----------



## Zbagint

rbl85 said:


> I think that a lot of people have memory issues because they always praise the product of 15-20 years ago but they seems to have forgot that in fact there was a LOT of dumb/ bad segments every weeks.


I actually remember someone here saying wrestling doesn't take itself seriously like it used to. I can only imagine how people would react if Britt Baker gave birth to a hand or Michael Nakazawa had a talking sock


----------



## Danielallen1410

Zbagint said:


> I actually remember someone here saying wrestling doesn't take itself seriously like it used to. I can only imagine how people would react if Britt Baker gave birth to a hand or Michael Nakazawa had a talking sock


exactly.


----------



## iarwain

I think it's a mistake for the ratings to have Jericho on commentary. Not that he isn't good at it, but people were tuning in to see him in the mix as an active wrestler and leading the Inner Circle. It's like when Randy Savage was doing commentary, it's a bit of a waste of him. They probably should have kept the belt on him longer. Nothing against Moxley, but he isn't as creative or entertaining as Jericho. And Jericho isn't getting any younger, might as well use him to the fullest while he's still around.


----------



## El Hammerstone

With everything being said, I have to ask what it is that everyone is looking for when it comes to an ideal promotion.

Me personally, I want to see great characters/personalities in interesting storylines that ultimately culminate in great matches, which is why I would target wrestlers who I see as the complete package. In the event that a wrestler is not the complete package, I would book them according to their strengths; so if I have a Dean Malenko type, I would use that guy in matches with others who are the complete package with the goal of making the other guy look that much better (which is why a Dean Malenko type would work well on the lower card rather than a Marko Stunt or Michael Nakazawa); if I have a less than quality ring worker who possesses great charisma and mic ability, I would be sure to use them more sparingly in the ring while giving them optimal time on the microphone to get their character/storyline over. I really don't see why great wrestling and great characters/promos need to be mutually exclusive.

I personally fail to see how a product operated in this manner would fail to succeed.


----------



## Danielallen1410

El Hammerstone said:


> With everything being said, I have to ask what it is that everyone is looking for when it comes to an ideal promotion.
> 
> Me personally, I want to see great characters/personalities in interesting storylines that ultimately culminate in great matches, which is why I would target wrestlers who I see as the complete package. In the event that a wrestler is not the complete package, I would book them according to their strengths; so if I have a Dean Malenko type, I would use that guy in matches with others who are the complete package with the goal of making the other guy look that much better (which is why a Dean Malenko type would work well on the lower card rather than a Marko Stunt or Michael Nakazawa); if I have a less than quality ring worker who possesses great charisma and mic ability, I would be sure to use them more sparingly in the ring while giving them optimal time on the microphone to get their character/storyline over. I really don't see why great wrestling and great characters/promos need to be mutually exclusive.
> 
> I personally fail to see how a product operated in this manner would fail to succeed.


agree.

right now aew have some great athletes but they aren’t doing enough with their characters. I’ve just now watched nxt takeover Portland, bare in mind I have watched little wwe and no nxt for a while up until the uk lockdown started, I’m already really invested in Keith Lee and Rhea ripely, the crowd are mega into them, they stand out.

I can’t currently say the same about anyone in the AEW roster, as athletes they’ve all got potential, but there is little character in Anyone bar Jericho and mjf.


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> With everything being said, I have to ask what it is that everyone is looking for when it comes to an ideal promotion.
> 
> Me personally, I want to see great characters/personalities in interesting storylines that ultimately culminate in great matches, which is why I would target wrestlers who I see as the complete package. In the event that a wrestler is not the complete package, I would book them according to their strengths; so if I have a Dean Malenko type, I would use that guy in matches with others who are the complete package with the goal of making the other guy look that much better (which is why a Dean Malenko type would work well on the lower card rather than a Marko Stunt or Michael Nakazawa); if I have a less than quality ring worker who possesses great charisma and mic ability, I would be sure to use them more sparingly in the ring while giving them optimal time on the microphone to get their character/storyline over. I really don't see why great wrestling and great characters/promos need to be mutually exclusive.
> 
> I personally fail to see how a product operated in this manner would fail to succeed.


WWE's roster
Lucha Underground's story telling and production
ROH's wrestling
*NJPW's respect for the business*
Impact's will to adapt 
NXT's consistency 
PWG's athleticism


No jobbers on the roster, hire them locally for the night to get the spotlight on some indy talent. 
I want a company to create it's own universe and if it wants to be wacky, lead into it. Don't tell us it's serious and then have teleporting randomly happen. 
Don't have bitter ex employees mouthing off constantly. It's a shit look. 
An edgier product. Not just saying shit sometimes. But hot women, public brawls and more mature story lines would be great. Less Jerry Springer, more MCU/Breaking Bad. Doesn't have to be R rated. 
A company that forces itself into the mainstream. Have a fight on the news, at a red carpet event, at a sports game. Wherever live TV is, be there. Remember how big Undertaker showing up to UFC to see Lesnar was? If you get a tv deal with a channel that has the news, make a deal to get on their shows.
DON'T BREAK KAYFABE. MJF does it perfectly. Don't break your character on TV, don't break it at signings, don't break it on Twitter. It's that simple.
And don't fucking wink at the camera. We know it's not real but we are attempting to suspend our belief in a product that often makes it so difficult to do so. You're on TV and it's your job, take this shit seriously or fuck off.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cult03 said:


> An edgier product. Not just saying shit sometimes. But hot women, public brawls and more mature story lines would be great. *Less Jerry Springer, more MCU/Breaking Bad*. Doesn't have to be R rated.


Fucking yes. WWE have been known to hire writers in the past (they may still for all I know) who had experience writing for various soap operas, and soap operas aren't exactly known for their well crafted, credible plotlines. I'm genuinely surprised a promotion hasn't taken a shot at people who may have written for a show like Breaking Bad, the Wire, Sons of Anarchy, etc. and supplement them with others who have come to know the ins and outs of the business though a wealth of prior experience (knowing what has/hasn't worked in the past).


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> Fucking yes. WWE have been known to hire writers in the past (they may still for all I know) who had experience writing for various soap operas, and soap operas aren't exactly known for their well crafted, credible plotlines. I'm genuinely surprised a promotion hasn't taken a shot at people who may have written for a show like Breaking Bad, the Wire, Sons of Anarchy, etc. and supplement them with others who have come to know the ins and outs of the business though a wealth of prior experience (knowing what has/hasn't worked in the past).


Even comic book writers would be a better option than WWE currently has


----------



## Randy Lahey

RapShepard said:


> I mean how awful are they when they still remain a top cable program? They've fell no doubt, but a top show is a top show. I think WWE constantly sucking themselves off about MNW ratings has done them and inadvertently AEW a huge disservice. Fans can't recognize good current wrestling ratings are, because they know wrestling ratngs used to be much higher.
> 
> Pre-Cornoa Raw, SmackDown, and AEW were consistently in the top 10 demo wise on their nights, with NXT usually in the top 50 somewhere. Those type of showings are hardly anything folk should be mocking for a pretty niche form of entertainment.


Raw’s demo is down 57% from a year ago. Being in the “top 10” means literally nothing given what USA is paying them. You really think USA pays Raw 280 mil a year to do slightly better ratings than whatever is on TLC, The History Channel, and Bravo? No. USA could air reruns of whatever they choose and still do better ratings than those other niche channels.

As others have said in this thread, when fans leave they don’t come back. Raw is doing 33% fewer viewers now than when they signed their current deal. You think USA is happy with that? NXT barely ever charts in the top 60 most weeks. 

To all you rabid WWE marks in this thread who can’t be older than 25, since if you were you’d realize how much WWE sucks now and why nobody watches the show anymore compared to the past, you’d not be white knighting for this. The show sucks and it’ll probably either get cancelled or WWE goes into bankruptcy bc they won’t be able to attract a large enough TV deal (given their anemic ratings) at their next renewal.


----------



## Randy Lahey

the_flock said:


> Probably because it was a lot better in every department. Even its worst segments were better than today's best.
> 
> They actually had well known household names for a start from top to bottom. The wrestlers actually looked like action heroes and mega stars. Even the low card guys would be world champions in todays climate.
> 
> Take someone like Marko Stunt flossing in the middle of the ring. Mike Awesome would have ran down the ring and launched his ass in to the 3rd row and that would have been the end of him. Guys like Darby Allin would have had their heads taken off by guys like Balls Mahoney.


Even the women back in the 90s were far more entertaining, and used better (to get men over), than the women’s revolution garbage that nobody cares about. Go to youtube and watch any Francine promo from ECW. She had every crowd on fire because ECW allowed her to say whatever it took to get an angle over. She could make people chant “she has her-pees, H-I-V, slut, etc etc). And there was so much more energy at the shows than anything you see today 

WWE having women’s wrestling is like an NBA team letting the WNBA scrimmage for half their games. It’s no surprise viewers have tuned out.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm sure it's been said a plethora of times, but ratings only mean so much right now. AEW is legit working with a skeleton roster, it's a lot of video packages, and profile clips that everyone knows is always a ratings bomb. You've got Shawn Spears wrestling some jobber on TV right now, of course that's not going to do well.

WWE is at least flying in a large portion of their roster every week, AEW is missing key people, and apparently, Mox wasn't apart of the set of tapings in Georgia, so he's out too.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm sure it's been said a plethora of times, but ratings only mean so much right now. AEW is legit working with a skeleton roster, it's a lot of video packages, and profile clips that everyone knows is always a ratings bomb. You've got Shawn Spears wrestling some jobber on TV right now, of course that's not going to do well.
> 
> WWE is at least flying in a large portion of their roster every week, AEW is missing key people, and apparently, Mox wasn't apart of the set of tapings in Georgia, so he's out too.


but as I’ve said they could still put together better matches.


----------



## RiverFenix

El Hammerstone said:


> Fucking yes. WWE have been known to hire writers in the past (they may still for all I know) who had experience writing for various soap operas, and soap operas aren't exactly known for their well crafted, credible plotlines. I'm genuinely surprised a promotion hasn't taken a shot at people who may have written for a show like Breaking Bad, the Wire, Sons of Anarchy, etc. and supplement them with others who have come to know the ins and outs of the business though a wealth of prior experience (knowing what has/hasn't worked in the past).


I just don't think quality writers from these shows would want anything to do with pro-rasslin', especially give the crazy ass never ending workload Vince forces on writers. Writing 7 hours of programming a week for 52 weeks a year when the shows you mentioned are hour long for 30 episodes tops. Also most shows have 3-4 man characters and maybe a dozen more secondary characters - wrestling has 80 wrestlers per brand. 

5 weeks of WWE programming is the output equivalent to a season of any hour long drama.

Closest think would have been Lucha Underground with Mark Burnett and Robert Rodriguez as Executive Producers. Shows taped well in advanced and cleaned up in post-production, they had seasons written before hand and off-seasons to write the next season episodes. Episodes were hour long as well - none of this 2-3 hour ask.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Zbagint said:


> Is there any other show you would dedicate this much time to in hopes of it improving? Nobody does this with anything other than wrestling. You wouldn't see someone sit through dozen of episodes of, I don't know, 13 Reasons Why and say "Man the writing of this show sucks, the characters aren't relatable and the morals are awful...I'm gonna keep watching to see if it improves!" This show has been on the air for months, just how much time do you need to determine that you don't and will likely never like the show? And if you REALLY want it to improve, why not just check in every few months to see if it has? Not only is it irrational to come to a fan forum of something and criticize them for enjoying the product, but for your own sake it's not a very good use of your time. And this is coming from someone that used to do this on the TNA forums.
> 
> I'm also curious what you thought AEW would be because I knew very little about it before it's TNT debut and I 100% expected it to be PWG with a budget. But I was completely fine with that. And I'd say lately they've went beyond that with the cinematic character building


So you're not getting my point. I am a wrestling fan so obviously I'm going to follow the second biggest wrestling show. I know many fans of rugby in my country who feel the sport was better in the 1990's but still watch every week because they want it to get better or they see small glimpses that bring them back. There are millions of James Bond fans that prefer the older movies but still watch every Bond movie in theatres because it has things in it that they enjoy and it's a film franchise they love. I love pro wrestling it's one of the things I'm most passionate about in the world. 

With AEW to break it down for you they sometimes do things that make me think "Okay, this is what I like". For example the build to that Hager Vs Moxley match was brilliant and reminded me of an old school fight with two guys who wanted to kill one another. That was brilliant. Jericho has had some great moments that are worth tuning in for, Jake Roberts is worth giving a watch, I like Tully Blanchard, JR is a staple of my childhood, I like Schiavone and Taz plus I like a lot of the active roster as well including Chris Daniels, Chris Jericho, Colt Cabana (When he's not being a goof), Jon Moxley, Lance Archer, MJF and a few others. It's cool seeing those guys week to week on TV but to see them I have to sit through all the bullshit that occurs in between so I write about it.

This isn't a fan forum for AEW it's a discussion forum for AEW. If you want a hivemind of positive AEW posts there are probably more than a few Facebook groups that will ban anyone who isn't 100% pro AEW. Personally I respect whoever the admins are of this board for allowing the positives, negatives and in the middle to all come together and chat AEW.

In regards to what I was expecting simply what I was promised. A poster I enjoy by the name of "The_Flock" (I'll quote his post below) summed it up pretty well though.



the_flock said:


> With the name All Elite. I was expecting the Creme de la Creme. Cody also stating they wouldn't hire anyone and everyone and were only looking at certain people.
> 
> I was also expecting a genuine alternative to WWE.
> 
> With them stating they were going for a more sports based show with rankings and analysis. Where wins and losses matter, I thought we would get a hard hitting, pure wrestling show.
> 
> They also said they had written 6 months of storyline in advance and had a clear direction.
> 
> Since then they've essentially gone against everything they promised in the beginning and making the most basic mistakes.


This is pretty much what we were promised. I was expecting a legitimate split between "stars" and the very best up and comers in the world today. Guys like Jericho Vs Moxley I expected to headline at the start but to see a quick rise to the top of these "elite" unknowns who were "can't miss" by now was well and truly expected. We've seen one star rise to the top and it was MJF whilst the others expected to become big stars haven't really done so.

There was no sports based show, wins and losses don't matter and we get more comedy and bullshit than we do hard hitting old school type wrestling. The writing is all over the place because four people all with different opinions are being tasked with writing certain segments. The guy in charge doesn't know wrestling and is a male Dixie Carter and Flock is right in AEW having gone back on the majority of what we were promised.



Zbagint said:


> I actually remember someone here saying wrestling doesn't take itself seriously like it used to. I can only imagine how people would react if Britt Baker gave birth to a hand or Michael Nakazawa had a talking sock


The Mr. Socko thing was Foley being a goofball and he was referenced as being an idiot on TV all the time. If AEW did the gimmick with Michael Nakazawa we'd see Socko giving suplexes or Socko grabbing guys by the balls and chewing on them or other juvenile shit like that. Socko in the WWF was Foley's character trying to become more lighthearted and fun and had reasoning behind it. Most of the stuff in AEW does not.

I see the Mae Young stuff brought up quite often to try and defend AEW. I don't think anyone looks at the Mae Young angle and thinks it was a great angle or segment but it's VERY easy to look past that due to the product WWE was giving us at the time. Mae birthed the hand in February 28th, 2000. We had a in his prime Rock, we had Triple H and Mick Foley killing one another on top, we had DX, the compelling McMahon-Helmsley storyline, Radicalz, an awesome tag team division and a heap of other things to write home about.

In AEW when we get something like Marko Stunt Vs Lance Archer or Omega/Nakazawa Vs Best Friends we don't have any amazing content to overlook that with. We can't really say something like "Oh yeah Mae Young giving birth to a hand was fucking stupid but holy shit did you see the Rock/Triple H segment?". Also, WWF didn't do stupid segments every week like AEW seemingly is going for.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I am surprised they haven’t used a few things from being the elite on the show, could at least get a few more people on it.


----------



## Zbagint

Chip Chipperson said:


> So you're not getting my point. I am a wrestling fan so obviously I'm going to follow the second biggest wrestling show. I know many fans of rugby in my country who feel the sport was better in the 1990's but still watch every week because they want it to get better or they see small glimpses that bring them back. There are millions of James Bond fans that prefer the older movies but still watch every Bond movie in theatres because it has things in it that they enjoy and it's a film franchise they love. I love pro wrestling it's one of the things I'm most passionate about in the world.
> 
> With AEW to break it down for you they sometimes do things that make me think "Okay, this is what I like". For example the build to that Hager Vs Moxley match was brilliant and reminded me of an old school fight with two guys who wanted to kill one another. That was brilliant. Jericho has had some great moments that are worth tuning in for, Jake Roberts is worth giving a watch, I like Tully Blanchard, JR is a staple of my childhood, I like Schiavone and Taz plus I like a lot of the active roster as well including Chris Daniels, Chris Jericho, Colt Cabana (When he's not being a goof), Jon Moxley, Lance Archer, MJF and a few others. It's cool seeing those guys week to week on TV but to see them I have to sit through all the bullshit that occurs in between so I write about it.
> 
> This isn't a fan forum for AEW it's a discussion forum for AEW. If you want a hivemind of positive AEW posts there are probably more than a few Facebook groups that will ban anyone who isn't 100% pro AEW. Personally I respect whoever the admins are of this board for allowing the positives, negatives and in the middle to all come together and chat AEW.


Apologies inadvance for the shitty quote job.

But you don't like the overwhelming majority of the show, correct? Even if you like 20 minutes of the show you're still largely wasting your time on something you don't like. And I don't see why being a wrestling fan means you're obligated to watch AEW and also seems like something you wouldn't see in any other genre. Are crime drama fans all obligated to watch Breaking Bad just because it's popular? I don't think movies are comparable either because that is a one off thing. Not watching two hours of something for 5 straight months.

That's definitely a false equivalency. No one wants 100% positive posting. That would be horrible. Criticism is great when it creates discussion. But when the brunt of the criticism is "AeW iS DyInG" and "VanILLa MidGet GeEks!" as is the case with several people here that have way too high of post counts on this forum, it has the exact opposite effect. It derails every topic into a pissing match and is even less enjoyable to read than a 100% positive forum because you're not getting any useful discussion or information out of it.

Why exactly does Mick Foley get a pass as "being goofy" but Michael Nakazawa or Orange Cassidy doesn't? I'm not super into any form of comedy but there's obviously a value in it being that Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt are pretty popular with the crowds. "stupid" is pretty highly subjective. Heck, I'd argue AEW has less over the top stuff than any other major promotion has and pretty memorable matches regularly but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that


----------



## Chan Hung

Danielallen1410 said:


> I am surprised they haven’t used a few things from being the elite on the show, could at least get a few more people on it.


Add more stuff from Hangman, Young Bucks even MJF cutting a promo distantly works!


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> With everything being said, I have to ask what it is that everyone is looking for when it comes to an ideal promotion.
> 
> Me personally, I want to see great characters/personalities in interesting storylines that ultimately culminate in great matches, which is why I would target wrestlers who I see as the complete package. In the event that a wrestler is not the complete package, I would book them according to their strengths; so if I have a Dean Malenko type, I would use that guy in matches with others who are the complete package with the goal of making the other guy look that much better (which is why a Dean Malenko type would work well on the lower card rather than a Marko Stunt or Michael Nakazawa); if I have a less than quality ring worker who possesses great charisma and mic ability, I would be sure to use them more sparingly in the ring while giving them optimal time on the microphone to get their character/storyline over. I really don't see why great wrestling and great characters/promos need to be mutually exclusive.
> 
> I personally fail to see how a product operated in this manner would fail to succeed.


Well For me The Ideal Promotion was Lucha Underground pretty much. But only with some modifications.

Also. The Promotion you described in your post wouldn't do any better than any other promotion out there now honestly.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw’s demo is down 57% from a year ago. Being in the “top 10” means literally nothing given what USA is paying them. You really think USA pays Raw 280 mil a year to do slightly better ratings than whatever is on TLC, The History Channel, and Bravo? No. USA could air reruns of whatever they choose and still do better ratings than those other niche channels.
> 
> As others have said in this thread, when fans leave they don’t come back. Raw is doing 33% fewer viewers now than when they signed their current deal. You think USA is happy with that? NXT barely ever charts in the top 60 most weeks.
> 
> To all you rabid WWE marks in this thread who can’t be older than 25, since if you were you’d realize how much WWE sucks now and why nobody watches the show anymore compared to the past, you’d not be white knighting for this. The show sucks and it’ll probably either get cancelled or WWE goes into bankruptcy bc they won’t be able to attract a large enough TV deal (given their anemic ratings) at their next renewal.


Thats what the E-Tards don't understand. They are so intent on doing everything online to get fans to hate AEW and keep their popularity low that they ignore that they are not very far away at all from pulling the same ratings. AEW is closer to WWE right now than WWF was to WCW when nWo was at it's peak. Thats insane considering how new AEW is. It should be a slaughter like when TNA first started before TNA built it up big. RAW will drop closer to AEWs level more likely than AEW getting up to the high 1s/low 2s like RAW.



Randy Lahey said:


> Even the women back in the 90s were far more entertaining, and used better (to get men over), than the women’s revolution garbage that nobody cares about. Go to youtube and watch any Francine promo from ECW. She had every crowd on fire because ECW allowed her to say whatever it took to get an angle over. She could make people chant “she has her-pees, H-I-V, slut, etc etc). And there was so much more energy at the shows than anything you see today
> 
> WWE having women’s wrestling is like an NBA team letting the WNBA scrimmage for half their games. It’s no surprise viewers have tuned out.


Yes sir. No one wants to admit it but the women should be on Dark, not Dynamite. The main reason WWEs ratings have dropped so bad the last 3 years are because the women are all over the show. Women should be valets, build stories slowly that lead to 3 or 4 matches a year that actually mean something.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well For me The Ideal Promotion was Lucha Underground pretty much. But only with some modifications.
> 
> Also. The Promotion you described in your post wouldn't do any better than any other promotion out there now honestly.


I don't see how; you would have interesting stories, interesting characters, and great wrestling, all of which elevate and feed into one another. Is someone who prioritizes great wrestling going to groan about the fact that these guys are part of a storyline? Is someone who prioritizes character building going to start groaning about the fact that these characters are putting on good matches? I genuinely don't get it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> I don't see how; you would have interesting stories, interesting characters, and great wrestling, all of which elevate and feed into one another. Is someone who prioritizes great wrestling going to groan about the fact that these guys are part of a storyline? Is someone who prioritizes character building going to start groaning about the fact that these characters are putting on good matches? I genuinely don't get it.


I mean. I can see People that are already into wrestling or lapsed fan getting into it but as far as something like these imaginary causal fans or mainstream catching on? Nope. Don't see it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I mean. I can see People that are already into wrestling or lapsed fan getting into it but as far as something like these imaginary causal fans or mainstream catching on? Nope. Don't see it.


Could you explain why?


----------



## RiverFenix

Comic book movies were very niche until RDJ was Iron Man. Comic books were for nerds until the MCU movies and now everybody was a secret comic book reader. 

Pro-wrestling needs to tap into this somehow. I know it's easy to say and if anybody had that secret sauce they'd be running their own company right now. But we know there is so many lapsed fans - many millions. 

I still profess WWE asks for too much time commitment. I think it gradually killed off it's fanbase as they aged out with work and families and couldn't commit 7+ hours a week, 52 weeks a year. 

I was more excited about AEW when it was going to be a 2-hour time "ask" with Cody promising you'd only need to watch the show to get the complete storyline outlay. They have Dark, adding another show with Warner and have so much social media content it's becoming more of a time sink. 

Lucha Underground was great in that it was a one hour show. NXT was great when it was a one hour show. It's easier to find new viewers when they only have to tune in for an hour versus having to commit two hours. But 2 hours is much better than 7 hours.

Also I think wrestling would benefit from an off-season. Both for the wrestlers, the creative process and to give fans a "break" from it all. Fans were frothing at the mouth for the last GoT season and for the next MCU movie. Seasons also provide a natural start off point and a promised ending point so potential new viewers know what they're potentially signing up for. 

Treat itself like a television show and viewers might see it more as one than as carney pro-wrasslin - that guilty pleasure thing you used to watch in middle school. Start in September, run through May for television. House show tour in the summer if there is demand. Run credits during the opening for the wrestlers and at the end for the production. It might seem like a little thing, but it puts it out front that the actors are playing wrestlers on the television show. Wrestlers in character outside of the show is silly and cringy and from a bygone era that seems insulting.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> Could you explain why?


Well for one no matter how you dress it up wrestling is pre determined and people seem to have an issue with that and I doubt a good product is gonna make their change their tune about their perception of wrestling. On top of that Wrestling can't really compete with alot of entertainment out there. I mean what can you get from wrestling that you can't get in Video Games for Example? Or the millions of shows out there at our disposal via Streaming services or even just regular old ass TV? Not to mention there's MMA if people want fighting. There's so much legit content out there that wrestling seems kinda low grade in comparision and people aren't gonna watch something that's seen as bottom of the barrel. Also, there's this thing people have about realism now and wrestling is just fake and ridiculous at it's core so the masses are not going to give a shit. 

The most I think it'll do is go viral like OC did awhile ago and if they tap into popular culture MAYBE get a star or two but that's it. Nothing on the level of WWE Attitude Era will ever happen again.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Comic book movies were very niche until RDJ was Iron Man. Comic books were for nerds until the MCU movies and now everybody was a secret comic book reader.
> 
> Pro-wrestling needs to tap into this somehow. I know it's easy to say and if anybody had that secret sauce they'd be running their own company right now. But we know there is so many lapsed fans - many millions.
> 
> I still profess WWE asks for too much time commitment. I think it gradually killed off it's fanbase as they aged out with work and families and couldn't commit 7+ hours a week, 52 weeks a year.
> 
> I was more excited about AEW when it was going to be a 2-hour time "ask" with Cody promising you'd only need to watch the show to get the complete storyline outlay. They have Dark, adding another show with Warner and have so much social media content it's becoming more of a time sink.
> 
> Lucha Underground was great in that it was a one hour show. NXT was great when it was a one hour show. It's easier to find new viewers when they only have to tune in for an hour versus having to commit two hours. But 2 hours is much better than 7 hours.
> 
> Also I think wrestling would benefit from an off-season. Both for the wrestlers, the creative process and to give fans a "break" from it all. Fans were frothing at the mouth for the last GoT season and for the next MCU movie. Seasons also provide a natural start off point and a promised ending point so potential new viewers know what they're potentially signing up for.
> 
> Treat itself like a television show and viewers might see it more as one than as carney pro-wrasslin - that guilty pleasure thing you used to watch in middle school. Start in September, run through May for television. House show tour in the summer if there is demand. Run credits during the opening for the wrestlers and at the end for the production. It might seem like a little thing, but it puts it out front that the actors are playing wrestlers on the television show. Wrestlers in character outside of the show is silly and cringy and from a bygone era that seems insulting.


Yeah. I think the best thing wrestling can do now honestly. Go the full Lucha Underground route and treat it like a television show. People might be more receptive of it. I don't think it'll have box office success but It'll change the business in a good way I think.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well for one no matter how you dress it up wrestling is pre determined and people seem to have an issue with that and I doubt a good product is gonna make their change their tune about their perception of wrestling. On top of that Wrestling can't really compete with alot of entertainment out there. I mean what can you get from wrestling that you can't get in Video Games for Example? Or the millions of shows out there at our disposal via Streaming services or even just regular old ass TV? Not to mention there's MMA if people want fighting. There's so much legit content out there that wrestling seems kinda low grade in comparision and people aren't gonna watch something that's seen as bottom of the barrel. Also, there's this thing people have about realism now and wrestling is just fake and ridiculous at it's core so the masses are not going to give a shit.
> 
> The most I think it'll do is go viral like OC did awhile ago and if they tap into popular culture MAYBE get a star or two but that's it. Nothing on the level of WWE Attitude Era will ever happen again.


I'm not going to deny a lot of this, but the mindset of "people will never change their mind on wrestling anyway, so why bother trying" is a dangerous one to have. Maybe it makes me a fool, but I would still want to put everything I had into creating the best possible product imaginable. It's discouraging to see people defend certain things by essentially conceding defeat for the industry.

Perhaps another boom period will never happen, I've said as much myself, but I do believe wrestling if presented a certain way for an extended period of time can have something of a rebound; it won't happen overnight, it won't happen in the next 3-4 years, but over a generation so long as things are done efficiently.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm not going to deny a lot of this, but the mindset of "people will never change their mind on wrestling anyway, so why bother trying" is a dangerous one to have. Maybe it makes me a fool, but I would still want to put everything I had into creating the best possible product imaginable. It's discouraging to see people defend certain things by essentially conceding defeat for the industry.
> 
> Perhaps another boom period will never happen, I've said as much myself, but I do believe wrestling if presented a certain way for an extended period of time can have something of a rebound; it won't happen overnight, it won't happen in the next 3-4 years, but over a generation so long as things are done efficiently.


I don't think people give up when it comes to wrestling: I just think people are just being realistic about where it is and what's it's going to be able to do in present time. I'm sure people would love to see wrestling grow and be where it was but it's just not going to happen and some wrestling fans like myself get this and don't sweat it. 

But I do agree that just because wrestling is niche doesn't mean that you just settle for crap. You want to make a good product regardless but different people are gonna have good definitions of what a good product is and that needs to be kept in mind. 

And to your last point: It could happen, shit, anything's possible.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Zbagint said:


> Apologies inadvance for the shitty quote job.
> 
> But you don't like the overwhelming majority of the show, correct? Even if you like 20 minutes of the show you're still largely wasting your time on something you don't like. And I don't see why being a wrestling fan means you're obligated to watch AEW and also seems like something you wouldn't see in any other genre. Are crime drama fans all obligated to watch Breaking Bad just because it's popular? I don't think movies are comparable either because that is a one off thing. Not watching two hours of something for 5 straight months.
> 
> That's definitely a false equivalency. No one wants 100% positive posting. That would be horrible. Criticism is great when it creates discussion. But when the brunt of the criticism is "AeW iS DyInG" and "VanILLa MidGet GeEks!" as is the case with several people here that have way too high of post counts on this forum, it has the exact opposite effect. It derails every topic into a pissing match and is even less enjoyable to read than a 100% positive forum because you're not getting any useful discussion or information out of it.
> 
> Why exactly does Mick Foley get a pass as "being goofy" but Michael Nakazawa or Orange Cassidy doesn't? I'm not super into any form of comedy but there's obviously a value in it being that Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt are pretty popular with the crowds. "stupid" is pretty highly subjective. Heck, I'd argue AEW has less over the top stuff than any other major promotion has and pretty memorable matches regularly but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that


1. I personally don't like the majority of the show but I also don't watch a majority of the show. I only watch live if an angle or match catches my interest and I watch on replay. The way I generally watch is skip matches unless I'm interested and watch all angles so an AEW view will likely be a 20 minute endeavour unless they have a really attractive match that runs long or I see something unbelievably stupid going on (Such as the tag match from a couple weeks ago or Archer/Stunt).

2. Myself and a lot of the guys branded as "AEW haters" don't think the company is dying. The guy who gets the most criticism on here is "The Wood" and I find most of his posts have similar feelings to me and are expressed in an intelligent way but he gets painted that way. Reality is with the main critical guys on this board (Myself, Cult03, Wood, Flock etc) they just want a more serious product. Not to talk for those guys but from what I've read they/we don't care so much if a guy is 5'7 just that he looks like a wrestler or like he could kick the average joes ass. If you're a wrestler who looks like they've never seen the inside of the gym you shouldn't be on TV. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

3. Not sure if you followed Foley's career but I'll assume you have. Kane turned on Foley and Foley started trying to transition into a guy who wasn't angry or tortured anymore but one who tried to be friends with people. His reasoning presumably was because he was mistreated by Kane and felt he should be kinder to people rather than being tortured and angry like Kane. He was then manipulated by Mr. McMahon on screen to do his bidding which is where most of the comedy came from. Foley was still treated as a tough as nails wrestler and not treated as a comedy guy in ring. Even the mandible claw was already established as a serious move that could hurt people and Foley put the sock on just to rub salt into the wounds. This is an example of good comedy in wrestling just like when Kurt Angle was a goof it was done properly. As I said before if a gimmick like Socko was in AEW they'd have guys thinking Socko was real, Socko would be hitting wrestling moves on people, Socko would be cutting promos, having matches and treated like he's real.

Orange Cassidy isn't already established as this tough guy and to my knowledge it's never been explained why he fights with his hands in his pockets. We don't know why he does half the shit he does. We don't know why Marko Stunt is regularly on TNT when he looks like a child and I guarantee you most people would assume he is a child on TV. We don't know why Nakazawa fucks around and even if we did none of those guys are endearing enough to get over on a national TV show. Foley has so much going for him that a majority of these goofs don't have at all yet they are somehow on national TV.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> So you're not getting my point. I am a wrestling fan so obviously I'm going to follow the second biggest wrestling show. I know many fans of rugby in my country who feel the sport was better in the 1990's but still watch every week because they want it to get better or they see small glimpses that bring them back. There are millions of James Bond fans that prefer the older movies but still watch every Bond movie in theatres because it has things in it that they enjoy and it's a film franchise they love. I love pro wrestling it's one of the things I'm most passionate about in the world.
> 
> With AEW to break it down for you they sometimes do things that make me think "Okay, this is what I like". For example the build to that Hager Vs Moxley match was brilliant and reminded me of an old school fight with two guys who wanted to kill one another. That was brilliant. Jericho has had some great moments that are worth tuning in for, Jake Roberts is worth giving a watch, I like Tully Blanchard, JR is a staple of my childhood, I like Schiavone and Taz plus I like a lot of the active roster as well including Chris Daniels, Chris Jericho, Colt Cabana (When he's not being a goof), Jon Moxley, Lance Archer, MJF and a few others. It's cool seeing those guys week to week on TV but to see them I have to sit through all the bullshit that occurs in between so I write about it.
> 
> This isn't a fan forum for AEW it's a discussion forum for AEW. If you want a hivemind of positive AEW posts there are probably more than a few Facebook groups that will ban anyone who isn't 100% pro AEW. Personally I respect whoever the admins are of this board for allowing the positives, negatives and in the middle to all come together and chat AEW.
> 
> In regards to what I was expecting simply what I was promised. A poster I enjoy by the name of "The_Flock" (I'll quote his post below) summed it up pretty well though.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty much what we were promised. I was expecting a legitimate split between "stars" and the very best up and comers in the world today. Guys like Jericho Vs Moxley I expected to headline at the start but to see a quick rise to the top of these "elite" unknowns who were "can't miss" by now was well and truly expected. We've seen one star rise to the top and it was MJF whilst the others expected to become big stars haven't really done so.
> 
> There was no sports based show, wins and losses don't matter and we get more comedy and bullshit than we do hard hitting old school type wrestling. The writing is all over the place because four people all with different opinions are being tasked with writing certain segments. The guy in charge doesn't know wrestling and is a male Dixie Carter and Flock is right in AEW having gone back on the majority of what we were promised.
> 
> 
> 
> The Mr. Socko thing was Foley being a goofball and he was referenced as being an idiot on TV all the time. If AEW did the gimmick with Michael Nakazawa we'd see Socko giving suplexes or Socko grabbing guys by the balls and chewing on them or other juvenile shit like that. Socko in the WWF was Foley's character trying to become more lighthearted and fun and had reasoning behind it. Most of the stuff in AEW does not.
> 
> I see the Mae Young stuff brought up quite often to try and defend AEW. I don't think anyone looks at the Mae Young angle and thinks it was a great angle or segment but it's VERY easy to look past that due to the product WWE was giving us at the time. Mae birthed the hand in February 28th, 2000. We had a in his prime Rock, we had Triple H and Mick Foley killing one another on top, we had DX, the compelling McMahon-Helmsley storyline, Radicalz, an awesome tag team division and a heap of other things to write home about.
> 
> In AEW when we get something like Marko Stunt Vs Lance Archer or Omega/Nakazawa Vs Best Friends we don't have any amazing content to overlook that with. We can't really say something like "Oh yeah Mae Young giving birth to a hand was fucking stupid but holy shit did you see the Rock/Triple H segment?". Also, WWF didn't do stupid segments every week like AEW seemingly is going for.


They're in a pandemic with 60% of their roster gone. They have had TV for half a year and have already produced 2 legit up and coming stars in MJF & Hangman. What could you possibly expect in such a short time period when 90% of the roster has never been seen before by 90% of the TNT audience?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> They're in a pandemic with 60% of their roster gone. They have had TV for half a year and have already produced 2 legit up and coming stars in MJF & Hangman. What could you possibly expect in such a short time period when 90% of the roster has never been seen before by 90% of the TNT audience?


Exactly what I said. The very best of the best up and comers in the world of wrestling today mixing it up with some of the biggest stars in wrestling. Also, they've pushed Hangman but he is doing a stupid drunk guy gimmick right now. MJF got himself over they simply put him on TV and let him do his thing which was really smart but lets not give them credit for producing him.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Exactly what I said. The very best of the best up and comers in the world of wrestling today mixing it up with some of the biggest stars in wrestling. Also, t*hey've pushed Hangman but he is doing a stupid drunk guy gimmick right now*. MJF got himself over they simply put him on TV and let him do his thing which was really smart but lets not give them credit for producing him.


A gimmick so stupid that the guy is even more over than MJF because of this gimmick.....


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> A gimmick so stupid that the guy is even more over than MJF because of this gimmick.....


With AEW fans that love irony and silly gimmicks. Tell me, how over did Scott Hall get in 1998 being a drunk on TV?


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> With AEW fans that love irony and silly gimmicks. Tell me, how over did Scott Hall get in 1998 being a drunk on TV?


Who gives a shit? It was 22 years ago.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> With AEW fans that love irony and silly gimmicks. Tell me, how over did Scott Hall get in 1998 being a drunk on TV?


How over did Austin get?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I've never seen Page drunk on TV, so the Scott Hall comparison is not relevant @Chip Chipperson


----------



## Danielallen1410

if you aren’t giving aew credit for mjf you can’t give wwf any credit for Austin and rock (no I’m not saying he’s on the same level)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> if you aren’t giving aew credit for mjf you can’t give wwf any credit for Austin and rock (no I’m not saying he’s on the same level)


What do you mean? 

MJF was doing the exact same gimmick he's doing now all over the place including MLW which has television in the United States. He was also a pretty popular independent act even impressed promoters internationally and getting a tour of England under his belt.

Rock started off as a cheery babyface in WWE and Austin was the ringmaster. What we know both Austin and Rock for in 2020 was created and produced within the WWE system. How can WWE not be given credit for The Rock when he's had under 20 matches outside WWE?

AEW deserve credit for having a good eye for talent. MJF was a guy that was out there, is a decent in ring performer and an awesome heel. They didn't invent anything though MJF was doing this shit 2-3 years ago.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> MJF was doing the exact same gimmick he's doing now all over the place including MLW which has television in the United States. He was also a pretty popular independent act even impressed promoters internationally and getting a tour of England under his belt.
> 
> Rock started off as a cheery babyface in WWE and Austin was the ringmaster. What we know both Austin and Rock for in 2020 was created and produced within the WWE system. How can WWE not be given credit for The Rock when he's had under 20 matches outside WWE?
> 
> AEW deserve credit for having a good eye for talent. MJF was a guy that was out there, is a decent in ring performer and an awesome heel. They didn't invent anything though MJF was doing this shit 2-3 years ago.


well that’s splitting hairs, you said he was being himself. That’s the bit I was commenting on, most people get over by being themselves, it doesn’t mean aew can’t be given credit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> well that’s splitting hairs, you said he was being himself. That’s the bit I was commenting on, most people get over by being themselves, it doesn’t mean aew can’t be given credit.


I said he got himself over and he's doing his thing meaning the character he did before AEW. AEW deserve credit for finding him, recognising his ability and getting him over quickly like they have on TV.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> I said he got himself over and he's doing his thing meaning the character he did before AEW. AEW deserve credit for finding him, recognising his ability and getting him over quickly like they have on TV.


so they deserve credit, simple as that. Which you didn’t say in the original post.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW deserve credit for realising MJF's worth. He's not doing lower card shenanigans like he would be doing in WWE.


----------



## Zbagint

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. I personally don't like the majority of the show but I also don't watch a majority of the show. I only watch live if an angle or match catches my interest and I watch on replay. The way I generally watch is skip matches unless I'm interested and watch all angles so an AEW view will likely be a 20 minute endeavour unless they have a really attractive match that runs long or I see something unbelievably stupid going on (Such as the tag match from a couple weeks ago or Archer/Stunt).
> 
> 2. Myself and a lot of the guys branded as "AEW haters" don't think the company is dying. The guy who gets the most criticism on here is "The Wood" and I find most of his posts have similar feelings to me and are expressed in an intelligent way but he gets painted that way. Reality is with the main critical guys on this board (Myself, Cult03, Wood, Flock etc) they just want a more serious product. Not to talk for those guys but from what I've read they/we don't care so much if a guy is 5'7 just that he looks like a wrestler or like he could kick the average joes ass. If you're a wrestler who looks like they've never seen the inside of the gym you shouldn't be on TV. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
> 
> 3. Not sure if you followed Foley's career but I'll assume you have. Kane turned on Foley and Foley started trying to transition into a guy who wasn't angry or tortured anymore but one who tried to be friends with people. His reasoning presumably was because he was mistreated by Kane and felt he should be kinder to people rather than being tortured and angry like Kane. He was then manipulated by Mr. McMahon on screen to do his bidding which is where most of the comedy came from. Foley was still treated as a tough as nails wrestler and not treated as a comedy guy in ring. Even the mandible claw was already established as a serious move that could hurt people and Foley put the sock on just to rub salt into the wounds. This is an example of good comedy in wrestling just like when Kurt Angle was a goof it was done properly. As I said before if a gimmick like Socko was in AEW they'd have guys thinking Socko was real, Socko would be hitting wrestling moves on people, Socko would be cutting promos, having matches and treated like he's real.
> 
> Orange Cassidy isn't already established as this tough guy and to my knowledge it's never been explained why he fights with his hands in his pockets. We don't know why he does half the shit he does. We don't know why Marko Stunt is regularly on TNT when he looks like a child and I guarantee you most people would assume he is a child on TV. We don't know why Nakazawa fucks around and even if we did none of those guys are endearing enough to get over on a national TV show. Foley has so much going for him that a majority of these goofs don't have at all yet they are somehow on national TV.


I guess I'll lump 1 and 2 together, there's plenty of shows that would certainly have what you're looking for in regards to that style of wrestling so that's why I ask why you would choose this one? I would say it IS too much to ask for because it's not like we can objectively say whether small guys are good or bad. It's a matter of opinion. There's a market for guys that do flips that are on the smaller side so if you know AEW is catering to people that want fast-paced, high flying wrestling then why would you watch that show and not just watch WWE or whatever indy utilizes the larger, muscular wrestlers that you enjoy? Again it's all about the time spent. I would fully understand if you guys were in the group of people that tuned into the debut, said "this isn't for me" and then stopped but why subject yourself to something or even want to discuss something you clearly don't like? I can honestly tell you the only things I actually know about any wrestling programs outside of AEW and AAA are whats discussed on this forum because all of the other ones with exposure I decided I didn't like.

Well I can respect that analysis. If what you don't like is wrestlers being pure comedy then I can understand that. That was just one example off the top of my head though. Because if it's about guys acting like goofs then we had Val Venis, Rico, Rikishi, Goldust, Scotty 2 Hotty, The Godfather etc. I'm sure you won't agree with me, but I more so brought up the Attitude Era because people seem to always look on the past fondly and the present negatively and I guarantee you a lot of stuff done back then would have been completely shit on today, but people remember a lot mroe of the Rock/HHH type segments that you mentioned and less of the guys I mentioned


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> AEW deserve credit for realising MJF's worth. He's not doing lower card shenanigans like he would be doing in WWE.


Wait until AEW signs more stars from the WWE and he's not the Creme of a bunch of Indy crop.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Wait until AEW signs more stars from the WWE and he's not the Creme of a bunch of Indy crop.


If you say so, TK.


----------



## AEWMoxley

NathanMayberry said:


> Wait until AEW signs more stars from the WWE and he's not the Creme of a bunch of Indy crop.


MJF at 22 is vastly superior to almost anybody the WWE has, including and especially guys who were pushed at a high level, like Roman Reigns and Rollins.

I think MJF will be fine regardless of who AEW brings in from WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEWMoxley said:


> MJF at 22 is vastly superior to almost anybody the WWE has, including and especially guys who were pushed at a high level, like Roman Reigns and Rollins.
> 
> I think MJF will be fine regardless of who AEW brings in from WWE.


This post is why people cringe at AEW fans.

Yes, MJF is a great heel, cuts a very good promo and is more than acceptable in the ring. He has a great deal of potential and will most likely become an even bigger star in AEW (Or wherever he ends up). Like it or not he will never get to the level of a Roman or Seth. 

Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins have drawn money and when I say drawn money I mean REAL money (Millions of dollars).They have competed against some of the very best wrestlers in the world on some of the biggest stages in the world and sold events out all around the world. Not shitting on MJF but at this stage in AEW's life the big draws for their shows are Jericho, Moxley, Omega (With the smarks), Cody, Young Bucks and the other guys with name value. MJF has yet to draw money anywhere except independent shows and those rarely sold out. He also has plenty of improving to do before you can say he's better than anyone WWE has.

I think Nathan's point is a valid one. AEW is about to bring in what I'd suggest is at least 5 guys/girls from WWE who are all just as good in ring, are more experienced, have bigger followings and in some circumstances are just as entertaining as MJF. Right now he looks awesome because outside the main event and tag team scene AEW is pretty awful and he only has to compete with the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Dustin Rhodes and the other AEW midcard guys who all range from decent to bad whilst he's good. As AEW fills that midcard with the likes of Zack Ryder (Who is coming in almost definitely), EC3 (Who is heavily being teased), Brian Cage (Apparently already signed) and other entertaining midcard acts he suddenly isn't so special anymore and doesn't stand out.

Really as good as he is at the gimmick how much value does an arrogant rich heel gimmick have in 2020 anyway? If he's still doing the same thing in 5 years I think even his biggest fans would be bored of him.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> *This post is why people cringe at AEW fans*.
> 
> Yes, MJF is a great heel, cuts a very good promo and is more than acceptable in the ring. He has a great deal of potential and will most likely become an even bigger star in AEW (Or wherever he ends up). Like it or not he will never get to the level of a Roman or Seth.
> 
> Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins have drawn money and when I say drawn money I mean REAL money (Millions of dollars).They have competed against some of the very best wrestlers in the world on some of the biggest stages in the world and sold events out all around the world. Not shitting on MJF but at this stage in AEW's life the big draws for their shows are Jericho, Moxley, Omega (With the smarks), Cody, Young Bucks and the other guys with name value. MJF has yet to draw money anywhere except independent shows and those rarely sold out. He also has plenty of improving to do before you can say he's better than anyone WWE has.
> 
> I think Nathan's point is a valid one. AEW is about to bring in what I'd suggest is at least 5 guys/girls from WWE who are all just as good in ring, are more experienced, have bigger followings and in some circumstances are just as entertaining as MJF. Right now he looks awesome because outside the main event and tag team scene AEW is pretty awful and he only has to compete with the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Dustin Rhodes and the other AEW midcard guys who all range from decent to bad whilst he's good. As AEW fills that midcard with the likes of Zack Ryder (Who is coming in almost definitely), EC3 (Who is heavily being teased), Brian Cage (Apparently already signed) and other entertaining midcard acts he suddenly isn't so special anymore and doesn't stand out.
> 
> Really as good as he is at the gimmick how much value does an arrogant rich heel gimmick have in 2020 anyway? If he's still doing the same thing in 5 years I think even his biggest fans would be bored of him.


Dude all the people who don't watch wrestling cringe about wrestling.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> This post is why people cringe at AEW fans.
> 
> Yes, MJF is a great heel, cuts a very good promo and is more than acceptable in the ring. He has a great deal of potential and will most likely become an even bigger star in AEW (Or wherever he ends up). Like it or not he will never get to the level of a Roman or Seth.
> 
> Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins have drawn money and when I say drawn money I mean REAL money (Millions of dollars).They have competed against some of the very best wrestlers in the world on some of the biggest stages in the world and sold events out all around the world. Not shitting on MJF but at this stage in AEW's life the big draws for their shows are Jericho, Moxley, Omega (With the smarks), Cody, Young Bucks and the other guys with name value. MJF has yet to draw money anywhere except independent shows and those rarely sold out. He also has plenty of improving to do before you can say he's better than anyone WWE has.
> 
> I think Nathan's point is a valid one. AEW is about to bring in what I'd suggest is at least 5 guys/girls from WWE who are all just as good in ring, are more experienced, have bigger followings and in some circumstances are just as entertaining as MJF. Right now he looks awesome because outside the main event and tag team scene AEW is pretty awful and he only has to compete with the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Dustin Rhodes and the other AEW midcard guys who all range from decent to bad whilst he's good. As AEW fills that midcard with the likes of Zack Ryder (Who is coming in almost definitely), EC3 (Who is heavily being teased), Brian Cage (Apparently already signed) and other entertaining midcard acts he suddenly isn't so special anymore and doesn't stand out.
> 
> Really as good as he is at the gimmick how much value does an arrogant rich heel gimmick have in 2020 anyway? If he's still doing the same thing in 5 years I think even his biggest fans would be bored of him.


Dude, stop. Just stop. WWE doesn't have a single wrestler even close to as entertaining as MJF. Hell AEW doesnt either, Hangman is the closest, and it isnt even close.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, stop. Just stop. WWE doesn't have a single wrestler even close to as entertaining as MJF. Hell AEW doesnt either, Hangman is the closest, and it isnt even close.


I am not shocked that another very hardcore AEW fan has made this claim.

If we analyse MJF as a talent he has a lot going for him but is also very overrated by the crew here and on social media. I've seen people here claim he's the next wrestling superstar and is going to be the guy to join Cena, Rock, Austin, Hogan as a true "superstar" of wrestling. Reality is he's a great future prospect but isn't the "most entertaining thing in wrestling" like you and the other fella are trying to claim.

To be honest, MJF isn't even the most entertaining thing in AEW week to week let alone all of AEW AND WWE. I'd say Chris Jericho is consistently more entertaining week to week than MJF which is absolutely not an insult but just how it is.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Pound for pound EC3 is a better MJF. There are bunch of people better than MJF in WWE.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Chip Chipperson said:


> This post is why people cringe at AEW fans.
> 
> Yes, MJF is a great heel, cuts a very good promo and is more than acceptable in the ring. He has a great deal of potential and will most likely become an even bigger star in AEW (Or wherever he ends up). Like it or not he will never get to the level of a Roman or Seth.
> 
> Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins have drawn money and when I say drawn money I mean REAL money (Millions of dollars).They have competed against some of the very best wrestlers in the world on some of the biggest stages in the world and sold events out all around the world. Not shitting on MJF but at this stage in AEW's life the big draws for their shows are Jericho, Moxley, Omega (With the smarks), Cody, Young Bucks and the other guys with name value. MJF has yet to draw money anywhere except independent shows and those rarely sold out. He also has plenty of improving to do before you can say he's better than anyone WWE has.
> 
> I think Nathan's point is a valid one. AEW is about to bring in what I'd suggest is at least 5 guys/girls from WWE who are all just as good in ring, are more experienced, have bigger followings and in some circumstances are just as entertaining as MJF. Right now he looks awesome because outside the main event and tag team scene AEW is pretty awful and he only has to compete with the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, Dustin Rhodes and the other AEW midcard guys who all range from decent to bad whilst he's good. As AEW fills that midcard with the likes of Zack Ryder (Who is coming in almost definitely), EC3 (Who is heavily being teased), Brian Cage (Apparently already signed) and other entertaining midcard acts he suddenly isn't so special anymore and doesn't stand out.
> 
> Really as good as he is at the gimmick how much value does an arrogant rich heel gimmick have in 2020 anyway? If he's still doing the same thing in 5 years I think even his biggest fans would be bored of him.


Rollins has never drawn a single dime in his life. Going by the quarter hour breakdowns that Meltzer releases from every promotion, Rollins loses hundreds of thousands of viewers every time he is on TV, and evidently, he's done so for at least the last 12 months. That's unprecedented. It's literally never happened before in the history of wrestling. He's the biggest anti-draw of all-time.

Reigns has drawn some money, mostly by way of merchandise sales, but nothing that impressive considering his push.

In the end, they're both massive failures.

But I wasn't even talking about drawing power. I was talking strictly about talent. MJF has more charisma in his pinky than both of the aforementioned geeks have combined. He is simply a vastly superior pro wrestler.


----------



## Danielallen1410

There isnt anyone in wwe who cuts a promo as good as MJF and gets the heat he does. That isn’t even opinion it’s just a fact.

it depends if your obsessed with “drawing A dime” etc which is more snarky than someone who thinks losing a match “buries“ someone.


----------



## Erik.

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> Pound for pound EC3 is a better MJF. There are bunch of people better than MJF in WWE.


Will be interesting to see where MJF is in 13 years time when he's EC3s age. 

Id like to see EC3 in AEW actually.


----------



## RapShepard

The thing with MJF is it's going to be interesting to see if he can do like Taker and Jericho and add those small updates to stay relevant as he grows. Because I know at least for me the insult the crowd portion of his gimmick is starting to be a little repetitive


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> The thing with MJF is it's going to be interesting to see if he can do like Taker and Jericho and add those small updates to stay relevant as he grows. Because I know at least for me the insult the crowd portion of his gimmick is starting to be a little repetitive


taker had the same entrance/attire/promo-style for over 10 years, but you're finding MJF's promo style repetitive after 6 months? can't be me


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> taker had the same entrance/attire/promo-style for over 10 years, but you're finding MJF's promo style repetitive after 6 months? can't be me


Yeah, I'm finding it repetitive. There's only so much you can go to the same exact insult before it loses some bite. It's not that he isn't a great talker and charismatic, just specifically the insults the crowd portion. Switch it up some.


----------



## bdon

It’d be fine continuing the same stuff if he had multiple catch phrases.

“I’m better than you...and you KNOW it!” just doesn’t have quite the zing it needs. Needs more to him than just being a dick. Quotables...he is missing them.


----------



## Cult03

AEWMoxley said:


> Rollins has never drawn a single dime in his life. Going by the quarter hour breakdowns that Meltzer releases from every promotion, Rollins loses hundreds of thousands of viewers every time he is on TV, and evidently, he's done so for at least the last 12 months. That's unprecedented. It's literally never happened before in the history of wrestling. He's the biggest anti-draw of all-time.
> 
> Reigns has drawn some money, mostly by way of merchandise sales, but nothing that impressive considering his push.
> 
> In the end, they're both massive failures.
> 
> But I wasn't even talking about drawing power. I was talking strictly about talent. MJF has more charisma in his pinky than both of the aforementioned geeks have combined. He is simply a vastly superior pro wrestler.


He is really good on the mic but in ring he's below average. It's something he needs to work on. I can't believe the criticism Killer Kross gets on here, meanwhile people are claiming MJF is a better wrestler than anyone in WWE. What a joke.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Cult03 said:


> He is really good on the mic but in ring he's below average. It's something he needs to work on. I can't believe the criticism Killer Kross gets on here, meanwhile people are claiming MJF is a better wrestler than anyone in WWE. What a joke.


I've never criticized anyone's ring skills because ring skills are entirely meaningless to me and to most people who watch wrestling.

MJF could have the worst in ring skills on the planet (he doesn't) and he would still be one of the best pro wrestlers in the world.

I still have no idea what "good match" means, and neither does anyone else. It has always been bizarre to me that people put so much emphasis on the subjective quality of a fake fight. 

I don't know who Killer Kross is, but if he's as charismatic and as good on the mic as MJF, then that negates everything else.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Wow. I didn't know someone who can just run their mouths could be considered a good pro wrestler. Guess people have been doing it all wrong all these years.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Wow. I didn't know someone who can just run their mouths could be considered a good pro wrestler. Guess people have been doing it all wrong all these years.


Well yeah, they have. That's why nobody watches wrestling anymore.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

AEWMoxley said:


> Well yeah, they have. That's why nobody watches wrestling anymore.


If noone watched wrestling it wouldn't exist so clearly people do watch it. Enough people for it to still be up and running at least.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If noone watched wrestling it wouldn't exist so clearly people do watch it. Enough people for it to still be up and running at least.


Compare the interest to when there were charismatic and larger than life characters at the top of the industry.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEWMoxley said:


> Rollins has never drawn a single dime in his life. Going by the quarter hour breakdowns that Meltzer releases from every promotion, Rollins loses hundreds of thousands of viewers every time he is on TV, and evidently, he's done so for at least the last 12 months. That's unprecedented. It's literally never happened before in the history of wrestling. He's the biggest anti-draw of all-time.
> 
> Reigns has drawn some money, mostly by way of merchandise sales, but nothing that impressive considering his push.
> 
> In the end, they're both massive failures.
> 
> But I wasn't even talking about drawing power. I was talking strictly about talent. MJF has more charisma in his pinky than both of the aforementioned geeks have combined. He is simply a vastly superior pro wrestler.


If MJF is vastly superior he would've drawn AEW at least some money. I get it, you don't like Rollins I can't say I'm overly keen on any of the guys main eventing in WWE except for maybe AJ Styles who I've been a fan of for over a decade at this point either but as a main event guy for how many years Rollins would be drawing the WWE money. He has a fan base, I've seen his merch being worn proudly by people. Hell, the guy even has an unofficial fan website and two unofficial fan pages with over 40,000 followers with his official one having millions of followers. 

As for Reigns it's pretty much the same. He also is constantly main eventing and is probably one of the biggest full time stars they have now. He has a big fan base, women and children love him, I have also seen his merchandise proudly on display by fans. He wouldn't be face of the WWE without drawing them money.

Even if you wanted to talk about it from an on screen perspective I'd give the following analysis:

Roman Reigns has a better look, is more marketable and just as good in the ring as MJF who is solid. MJF would be better on the microphone. 

Seth Rollins has a better look, is more marketable and is probably better in the ring. I've seen Rollins cut some really good promos but I'll give MJF the edge in this one as well.

If MJF was in WWE he wouldn't be treated like this saviour or this overrated. I firmly believe MJF looks as great as he does based on the fact that the AEW midcard scene is genuinely awful.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

AEWMoxley said:


> Compare the interest to when there were charismatic and larger than life characters at the top of the industry.


Irrelevant. What I said still stands.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Chip Chipperson said:


> If MJF is vastly superior he would've drawn AEW at least some money. I get it, you don't like Rollins I can't say I'm overly keen on any of the guys main eventing in WWE except for maybe AJ Styles who I've been a fan of for over a decade at this point either but as a main event guy for how many years Rollins would be drawing the WWE money. He has a fan base, I've seen his merch being worn proudly by people. Hell, the guy even has an unofficial fan website and two unofficial fan pages with over 40,000 followers with his official one having millions of followers.
> 
> As for Reigns it's pretty much the same. He also is constantly main eventing and is probably one of the biggest full time stars they have now. He has a big fan base, women and children love him, I have also seen his merchandise proudly on display by fans. He wouldn't be face of the WWE without drawing them money.
> 
> Even if you wanted to talk about it from an on screen perspective I'd give the following analysis:
> 
> Roman Reigns has a better look, is more marketable and just as good in the ring as MJF who is solid. MJF would be better on the microphone.
> 
> Seth Rollins has a better look, is more marketable and is probably better in the ring. I've seen Rollins cut some really good promos but I'll give MJF the edge in this one as well.
> 
> If MJF was in WWE he wouldn't be treated like this saviour or this overrated. I firmly believe MJF looks as great as he does based on the fact that the AEW midcard scene is genuinely awful.


It has nothing to with me liking or not liking those guys. The numbers show that Rollins is the single biggest anti-draw of all-time, and Roman Reigns has drawn less than every FOTC in the last 25 years. You're the one who brought up drawing power. It didn't go well for you at all.

MJF's charisma and mic skills would be abundantly obvious in any promotion, including WWE. There's nobody there who could outshine him.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEWMoxley said:


> It has nothing to with me liking or not liking those guys. The numbers show that Rollins is the single biggest anti-draw of all-time, and Roman Reigns has drawn less than every FOTC in the last 25 years. You're the one who brought up drawing power. It didn't go well for you at all.
> 
> MJF's charisma and mic skills would be abundantly obvious in any promotion, including WWE. There's nobody there who could outshine him.


Roman has drawn less than every face of the company in the last 25 years because wrestling is at it's most unpopular right now and he's been slowed down significantly by illness.

Regardless, they are draws the WWE wouldn't have them hired and in main events if they were not. Where has MJF drawn money?


----------



## bdon

“Good match” means great story-telling, becoming emotionally invested in an outcome that does not feel predictable, suspension of disbelief, hard-hitting action that makes you believe both men are legitimately “competing” to win.

Laying on the ground holding someone’s ankle as they stand over you doing nothing to kick or punch you off pretty much kills any hope of it being even a decent match.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Chip Chipperson said:


> Roman has drawn less than every face of the company in the last 25 years because wrestling is at it's most unpopular right now and he's been slowed down significantly by illness.
> 
> Regardless, they are draws the WWE wouldn't have them hired and in main events if they were not. Where has MJF drawn money?


Wrestling is at it's most unpopular period right now in part because WWE has monopolized the industry and they have geeky anti-draws on top who push fans away. A large departure from pushing guys with charisma with larger than life characters back in the AE.

MJF was introduced to a national audience just 7 months ago, in a brand new promotion, and is anchored by a roster that's mostly filled with utter trash. No one with a brain would expect him to reach his potential under those circumstances.

I'm sorry you're upset because MJF is a vastly superior talent to your favorites. It's clearly very upsetting for you, but I'm sure you'll get over it.


----------



## the_flock

AEWMoxley said:


> MJF's charisma and mic skills would be abundantly obvious in any promotion, including WWE. There's nobody there who could outshine him.


MJF doesn't appeal to women, doesn't appeal to kids. He's literally not marketable. The only people he appeals to are geeks who think he has cool mic skills, but let's be honest he's average in the Ring, has a crap look and is very one dimensional character wise. His mic skills are OK. I wouldn't call them amazing. Hence why people are saying that if EC3 or Eli Drake came in, MJF would be redundant.

His gimmick is literally that kid at school who thinks he's better than everyone and bullies people, years later people ask hey what happened to that nob at school. 

AEW had one shot with MJF and that was to be Cody's ally for a year or 2 before eventually turning on him and they fucked that storyline up by rushing it and playing it out in a matter of weeks.


----------



## AEWMoxley

the_flock said:


> MJF doesn't appeal to women, doesn't appeal to kids. *He's literally not marketable.*


Source?

His job isn't to appeal to those demographics, it's to get them to boo him out of the building, just like he did with those incels like you at Fyter Fest.


----------



## the_flock

AEWMoxley said:


> Source?
> 
> His job isn't to appeal to those demographics, it's to get them to boo him out of the building, just like he did with those incels like you at Fyter Fest.


If his job isn't to appeal to the biggest demographics then what's the point of him. Kevin Nash's job was to get booed, but he still appealed, there's a reason why his nickname was big sexy. Scott Hall's job was to get booed, but the bad guy was cool as fuck and had mass appeal. 

I just asked my wife, MJF or Roman Reigns, she said what the hell is an MJF, it sounds like a pound shop. I then showed her a picture and she said eugh he looks like someone who stays up until 4am playing computer games. I think that says it all.


----------



## AEWMoxley

the_flock said:


> If his job isn't to appeal to the biggest demographics then what's the point of him. Kevin Nash's job was to get booed, but he still appealed, there's a reason why his nickname was big sexy. Scott Hall's job was to get booed, but the bad guy was cool as fuck and had mass appeal.
> 
> I just asked my wife, MJF or Roman Reigns, she said what the hell is an MJF, it sounds like a pound shop. I then showed her a picture and she said eugh he looks like someone who stays up until 4am playing computer games. I think that says it all.


Well, if your imaginary wife says that Roman Reigns is better, then it's all over. MJF is clearly inferior!

"The point" of him is to get people to tune in or to pay to see him get his ass kicked. He's one of the few heels in the business who gets legit heel heat. The guy literally made TMZ not too long ago and got a completely different set of individuals outside of wrestling talking about him.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> It has nothing to with me liking or not liking those guys. The numbers show that Rollins is the single biggest anti-draw of all-time, and Roman Reigns has drawn less than every FOTC in the last 25 years. You're the one who brought up drawing power. It didn't go well for you at all.
> 
> MJF's charisma and mic skills would be abundantly obvious in any promotion, including WWE. There's nobody there who could outshine him.


Dude, you are correct. You're arguing with WWE marks,save yourself some stress and simply block them. If MJF were to show up on RAW these two would be losing their shit and marking out lilke crazy. They know that he has far more potential as a draw than either of Rollins or Reigns, that is why they are on the AEW forum hating on him.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, you are correct. You're arguing with WWE marks,save yourself some stress and simply block them. If MJF were to show up on RAW these two would be losing their shit and marking out lilke crazy. They know that he has far more potential as a draw than either of Rollins or Reigns, that is why they are on the AEW forum hating on him.


There's no stress here. It's enjoyable dismantling retards once in a while, especially during a prolonged quarantine.


----------



## the_flock

AEWMoxley said:


> "The point" of him is to get people to tune in or to pay to see him get his ass kicked.


If that's his whole point, then he's failing. As no one is tuning in to see that happen. His act didn't work out well on the Indies either. 

It's interesting that Jericho was asked who is underrated in the company. He said. MJF, Darby and Sammy were climbing up the card, but then went on to say that Jungle Boy and Scorpio Sky are going to have huge careers. He also said OC is a Cult hero and people are filling venues to see him. 

Interesting that he didn't say MJF was going to be a huge star. I wonder why.


----------



## AEWMoxley

the_flock said:


> If that's his whole point, then he's failing. As no one is tuning in to see that happen. His act didn't work out well on the Indies either.
> 
> It's interesting that Jericho was asked who is underrated in the company. He said. MJF, Darby and Sammy were climbing up the card, but then went on to say that Jungle Boy and Scorpio Sky are going to have huge careers. He also said OC is a Cult hero and people are filling venues to see him.
> 
> Interesting that he didn't say MJF was going to be a huge star. I wonder why.


I'd say that MJF is one of the few people on this shit roster that people are actually tuning in to see. In his first ever feud on TV, in a story that has been playing out for months, his quarter hours were some of the highest rated on the show.

Jericho was talking shit and propping up guys who desperately needed to be propped up. Jungle Boy will never be a big star, and neither will Scorpio Sky, and no one is filling arenas to see OC.


----------



## bdon

MJF is not a “can’t-miss” prospect. He’s got a lot of work to do to solidify himself, even if he has a lot of things “right”.

Also, it’s funny watching someone try and say MJF is a bigger star than Rollins or Reigns, when that same someone only argues in terms of ratings.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> MJF is not a “can’t-miss” prospect. He’s got a lot of work to do to solidify himself, even if he has a lot of things “right”.
> 
> Also, it’s funny watching someone try and say MJF is a bigger star than Rollins or Reigns, when that same someone only argues in terms of ratings.


Who said that he's a bigger star? This literally never happened.

Someone brought up ratings and tried to claim those two guys were draws. Reigns is somewhat of a draw, albeit the worst drawing FOTC in 25 years, but Rollins is a proven anti-draw. All of this despite being pushed by the largest wresting company on the planet. These facts are entirely independent of MJF. Give MJF that push in WWE and we'll see what he can do.

MJF at 22 is already much better than many veterans of the sport, including the EVPs who started this company.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> Who said that he's a bigger star? This literally never happened.
> 
> Someone brought up ratings and tried to claim those two guys were draws. Reigns is somewhat of a draw, albeit the worst drawing FOTC in 25 years, but Rollins is a proven anti-draw. All of this despite being pushed by the largest wresting company on the planet. These facts are entirely independent of MJF.
> 
> MJF at 22 is already much better than many veterans of the sport, including the EVPs who started this company.


24


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF news has managed to reach mainstream outlets. There is a massive amount of potential there.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Danielallen1410

Aew 731,000
nxt 665,000


----------



## PavelGaborik

Nice to see them get back over 700k this week.

NXT was pretty bad though, especially after Balor/Dream was cancelled.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PavelGaborik said:


> Nice to see them get back over 700k this week.
> 
> NXT was pretty bad though, especially after Balor/Dream was cancelled.


Funny because I didn’t see one negative comment about nxt on twitter or over on the nxt discussion forum since the show. I’m looking forward to watching it.


----------



## AEW_19

I'll be honest, I was expecting Dynamite to stay below 700k for the remainder of the lockdown.


----------



## llj

Their wrestling show finally trending up during this has to be considered a positive for AEW

Meanwhile all of WWE's shows are still in freefall mode


----------



## the_flock

RapShepard said:


> Because I know at least for me the insult the crowd portion of his gimmick is starting to be a little repetitive


Just about every wrestling fan who grew up in the attitude era won't be interested in his insults as they've heard it done a million times better. 

MJF needs to go and watch back at how Joel Gertner did it in ECW, he would make MJF look like a massive nerd in front of the crowd.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Orange = draw
Kenny = draw
squashes = draw
Darby / sammy = draw
Dustin = draw

that is all i guess.... carry on....


----------



## Chan Hung

Thanks @IamMark ^^

So this is what i found also:

AEW Dynamite drew 731,000 viewers overall (which is up from last week’s 683,000) and came in at No. 24 for the night. That’s up from No. 29 last week. Per Showbuzz Daily, NXT was down from last week with 665,000 viewers (down from 692,000) and came in at No. 50 with a .18 rating in the 18-49 demographic. That’s lower than AEW’s .25 for the night.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I’m surprised it went up, I fully expected numbers to stay the same for both shows and maybe drop even more for the foreseeable.


----------



## Chan Hung

Matt Hardy is still somewhat of a draw, isnt he? 

Next week's show looks much better than yesterday's so it should hold steady, the rating or be a bit higher.


----------



## kingfrass44

Chan Hung said:


> Matt Hardy is still somewhat of a draw, isnt he?
> 
> Next week's show looks much better than yesterday's so it should hold steady, the rating or be a bit higher.


Matt Hardy Not draw


----------



## PavelGaborik

Danielallen1410 said:


> Funny because I didn’t see one negative comment about nxt on twitter or over on the nxt discussion forum since the show. I’m looking forward to watching it.


They didn't have much in the way of starpower last night. Some okay matchups, but nothing that would draw the eye of casual fans. 

It was a pretty "meh" show.


----------



## AEW_19

Looks like the FlimFlam is money


----------



## Chan Hung

FlimFlam, Orange Cassidy, Squash matches, Matt hardy probably highest numbers, and next week Marko Stunt lmfao


----------



## RiverFenix

I think the first segment is the hook to hold the flipper fan. It's why AEW went with the slick promo right to Darby vs Guevara and then to Hardy's promo. 

More vignettes and shorter matches seemed to work last night as well. Empty arenas lack energy and harder to sell the drama of long matches without crowd involvement so keeping matches shorter is probably part of the secret sauce. 

I'm pleasantly surprised by those ratings, I thought NXT would continue their narrow wins until AEW taped it's next set with an expanded available roster.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> Funny because I didn’t see one negative comment about nxt on twitter or over on the nxt discussion forum since the show. I’m looking forward to watching it.


Not a lot of discussion on the NXT section.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The only real answer this thread now keeps giving us is ‘how long can some people be wrong for’

and.... is Orange Cassidy the uber draw of all time?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW did 45% of the demo that RAW did with competition from WWE nXt. TNT pays Dynamite 16% of what USA pays for Raw. Staggering numbers. Those rights deals are going to be so different in 5 years.

USA can not be happy.
TNT is probably chugging a whole lot of the bubbly lol


----------



## taker1986

That's good to see.

I expect with the TNT title tournament reaching its climax and the buildup to the Double or Nothing matches starting soon to keep this momentum going.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

taker1986 said:


> That's good to see.
> 
> I expect with the TNT title tournament reaching its climax and the buildup to the Double or Nothing matches starting soon to keep this momentum going.


Can't wait to see AEW with their full roster back too. I am ready for some damn Cowboy Shit!!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Imagine the Inner Circle back, Death Triangle, Jurassic Express, Kenny + Hangman, the Bucks

revival debut, Archer, Brodie

man.... good times ahead


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Imagine the Inner Circle back, Death Triangle, Jurassic Express, Kenny + Hangman, the Bucks
> 
> revival debut, Archer, Brodie
> 
> man.... good times ahead


CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!!!!


----------



## Runaway

Really pleasantly surprising number for AEW. Wednesdays ratings seem like a crapshoot right now. Strange that the show with Moxley vs Hagger for the title last week did poorer numbers.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Runaway said:


> Really pleasantly surprising number for AEW. Wednesdays ratings seem like a crapshoot right now. Strange that the show with Moxley vs Hagger for the title last week did poorer numbers.


No one gives a damn about Sawgger.


----------



## validreasoning

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW did 45% of the demo that RAW did with competition from WWE nXt. TNT pays Dynamite 16% of what USA pays for Raw. Staggering numbers. Those rights deals are going to be so different in 5 years.
> 
> USA can not be happy.
> TNT is probably chugging a whole lot of the bubbly lol


TNT also pays half the ad revenue to AEW, Raw gets 0% of ad revenue and TNT run free ads for AEW every second commercial break, Raw doesn't get that.

Raw is 3 hours vs 2 for Dynamite and networks pay by the hour of programming so your numbers are wrong. If the dirtsheet numbers are correct it's $88 million per hour per year for Raw, $22.5 million per hour per year for Dynamite and $15 million per hour per year for NXT in tv rights fees.

Last year Raw generated about $100 million in ad revenue for USA. As mentioned WWE programming gets no ad sharing. If Raw got exact same deal as AEWs ie $22.5m per hour per year + half of ad revenue that would amount to $117.5 million per year, more than Raw brought in before new tv deal kicked in


----------



## Runaway

Ham and Egger said:


> No one gives a damn about Sawgger.


Well yeah, I guess. But you'd think a heavily advertised gimmick match for the world title would do better.


----------



## Not Lying

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think the first segment is the hook to hold the flipper fan. It's why AEW went with the slick promo right to Darby vs Guevara and then to Hardy's promo.
> 
> *More vignettes and shorter matches seemed to work last night as well. Empty arenas lack energy and harder to sell the drama of long matches without crowd involvement so keeping matches shorter is probably part of the secret sauce. *
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised by those ratings, I thought NXT would continue their narrow wins until AEW taped it's next set with an expanded available roster.


I agree, the vignettes are great and they're adding a little something to every match. 

Squash matches are fun now with this limited roster, Wardlow/Browdi/Archer getting some good built up an unstoppable big men that can could squash your local wrestler with ease. Looking forward to Luchasaurus feuding with one of them.


----------



## DaSlacker

Would like to see a quarter hour breakdown but the show started well, Matt's promo was excellent and Dustin placing his career on the line would have drawn. Cassidy is popular too.

Next week has a better card and Tony Khan seems really pleased with it. Genuinelynterested to see where they go with the title tournament. Plus, you just know Hardy and Jericho are heading for a 'match' at the ranch.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Back to normal...


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Imagine the Inner Circle back, Death Triangle, Jurassic Express, Kenny + Hangman, the Bucks
> 
> revival debut, Archer, Brodie
> 
> man.... good times ahead


Plus one of the best things about the shows. A hot crowd.


----------



## imthegame19

Runaway said:


> Really pleasantly surprising number for AEW. Wednesdays ratings seem like a crapshoot right now. Strange that the show with Moxley vs Hagger for the title last week did poorer numbers.


Moxley/Hager had highest quarter on that show when the match started. So people were excited for it at first. According to Meltzer the first hour of last week show did very poor and lost out to NXT. 

I think two tourament matches and Orange Cassidy matches being spread out helped the ratings on this show.


----------



## Danielallen1410

imthegame19 said:


> Moxley/Hager had highest quarter on that show when the match started. So people were excited for it at first. According to Meltzer the first hour of last week show did very poor and lost out to NXT.
> 
> I think two tourament matches and Orange Cassidy matches being spread out helped the ratings on this show.


Why aren’t they releasing quarter hours for the shows at the moment, haven’t seen any for weeks.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dude, you are correct. You're arguing with WWE marks,save yourself some stress and simply block them. If MJF were to show up on RAW these two would be losing their shit and marking out lilke crazy. They know that he has far more potential as a draw than either of Rollins or Reigns, that is why they are on the AEW forum hating on him.


I don't know about Flock but I myself am not a WWE mark. Not everyone who criticises AEW is a WWE mark. If MJF showed up on RAW I would be pleased for him but it wouldn't make me tune into WWE regularly again.

Also, I don't think anybody was "hating on him". I simply stated that he wasn't as good as old mate thinks who was pointing out that MJF is genuinely one of the best professional wrestlers in the world. I still stand by MJF being a good future prospect for AEW but also stand by him being incredibly overrated by the AEW fans.



AEWMoxley said:


> There's no stress here. It's enjoyable dismantling retards once in a while, especially during a prolonged quarantine.


Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a retard? Are you 12?



AEWMoxley said:


> Who said that he's a bigger star? This literally never happened.
> 
> Someone brought up ratings and tried to claim those two guys were draws. Reigns is somewhat of a draw, albeit the worst drawing FOTC in 25 years, but Rollins is a proven anti-draw. All of this despite being pushed by the largest wresting company on the planet. These facts are entirely independent of MJF. Give MJF that push in WWE and we'll see what he can do.
> 
> MJF at 22 is already much better than many veterans of the sport, including the EVPs who started this company.


If that someone refers to me I brought up drawing money not so much ratings. MJF has never filled a small arena let alone main evented major Pay Per Views, he's never sold large amounts of merchandise, he's never been thrown on a billboard to try and sell tickets to a live event, PPV or TV taping., he's never headlined international PPV's or tours.

He's not "much better" than many veterans of the sport although I'd agree he's more entertaining than 3/4 of the EVP's which says more about them than MJF. With the amount of love and admiration you're putting into the guy I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Kind of like when football fans put their entire hopes on a draft pick hoping he'll be their saviour and then being disappointed when he falls short.



TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW did 45% of the demo that RAW did with competition from WWE nXt. TNT pays Dynamite 16% of what USA pays for Raw. Staggering numbers. Those rights deals are going to be so different in 5 years.
> 
> USA can not be happy.
> TNT is probably chugging a whole lot of the bubbly lol


Yes, I'm sure the USA Network are absolutely livid that they have the biggest wrestling show in the world on their network and are upset that they can't air Dynamite.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know about Flock but I myself am not a WWE mark. Not everyone who criticises AEW is a WWE mark. If MJF showed up on RAW I would be pleased for him but it wouldn't make me tune into WWE regularly again.
> 
> Also, I don't think anybody was "hating on him". I simply stated that he wasn't as good as old mate thinks who was pointing out that MJF is genuinely one of the best professional wrestlers in the world. I still stand by MJF being a good future prospect for AEW but also stand by him being incredibly overrated by the AEW fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a retard? Are you 12?
> 
> 
> 
> If that someone refers to me I brought up drawing money not so much ratings. MJF has never filled a small arena let alone main evented major Pay Per Views, he's never sold large amounts of merchandise, he's never been thrown on a billboard to try and sell tickets to a live event, PPV or TV taping., he's never headlined international PPV's or tours.
> 
> He's not "much better" than many veterans of the sport although I'd agree he's more entertaining than 3/4 of the EVP's which says more about them than MJF. With the amount of love and admiration you're putting into the guy I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Kind of like when football fans put their entire hopes on a draft pick hoping he'll be their saviour and then being disappointed when he falls short.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm sure the USA Network are absolutely livid that they have the biggest wrestling show in the world on their network and are upset that they can't air Dynamite.


I think its more they are upset they are overpaying so much based on old numbers from when they signed the deal that they aren't getting close to anymore, even pre Corona. AEWs numbers are exposing that. It will all come out in the wash when both companies are up for their next deals. 

And when the inevitable happens, people will look back on the releases last week as moderate. But I am sure TNT always praising AEW and USA involving themselves/pressuring WWE creative is just a coincidence. The fact that their demo is half of what it was when they signed the deal doesn't send any alarms when another company comes in at a fraction of the cost and does half the demo in months.

No biggie!!! USA won't cut that deal in half im sure. I mean, unless you think their numbers are going to suddenly improve despite having less star power than they have in several years.


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think its more they are upset they are overpaying so much based on old numbers from when they signed the deal that they aren't getting close to anymore, even pre Corona. AEWs numbers are exposing that. It will all come out in the wash when both companies are up for their next deals.
> 
> And when the inevitable happens, people will look back on the releases last week as moderate. But I am sure TNT always praising AEW and USA involving themselves/pressuring WWE creative is just a coincidence. The fact that their demo is half of what it was when they signed the deal doesn't send any alarms when another company comes in at a fraction of the cost and does half the demo in months.
> 
> No biggie!!! USA won't cut that deal in half im sure. I mean, unless you think their numbers are going to suddenly improve despite having less star power than they have in several years.


Nah more likely scenario is that AEW is able to get a massive deal next go around and WWE goes up as well. Everybody just knew WWE's deal would be much smaller this go around, then we're proven massively wrong. Raw still gives USA a top cable show with 150+ hours of cheap to produce television.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think its more they are upset they are overpaying so much based on old numbers from when they signed the deal that they aren't getting close to anymore, even pre Corona. AEWs numbers are exposing that. It will all come out in the wash when both companies are up for their next deals.
> 
> And when the inevitable happens, people will look back on the releases last week as moderate. But I am sure TNT always praising AEW and USA involving themselves/pressuring WWE creative is just a coincidence. The fact that their demo is half of what it was when they signed the deal doesn't send any alarms when another company comes in at a fraction of the cost and does half the demo in months.
> 
> No biggie!!! USA won't cut that deal in half im sure. I mean, unless you think their numbers are going to suddenly improve despite having less star power than they have in several years.


I get that you love your echo chamber and will probably block me, because you don't like being challenged, but LMAO. The difference between AEW and NXT right now is not even significant. Why are you mentioning Raw? 

ESPN pays over 100 million per game for Monday Night Football, more than 30 times what Raw gets, for only 10 times the ratings. Are ESPN going to cancel NFL games and put on CFL games instead because its cheaper? TNT pays the NBA more money than USA pays WWE for Raw and Raw beats those NBA games repeatedly except during the 6 weeks of playoffs. TV Ratings: Why Is the NBA Shooting Air Balls?


Rank matters more to networks than than viewership. Networks want to be the best, and most watched, cost comes secondary to that. A show getting 700 K viewers is not going to get them that. USA is the most watched network on Cable because of Raw. Go ask the last network what happened when they lost Raw and tried to replace it with another Wrestling show at a fraction of the price.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> Nah more likely scenario is that AEW is able to get a massive deal next go around and WWE goes up as well. Everybody just knew WWE's deal would be much smaller this go around, then we're proven massively wrong. Raw still gives USA a top cable show with 150+ hours of cheap to produce television.


Exactly. $5 million for 3 hours of top content for 52 weeks a year is a steal. 

Raw is not going to go down because of AEW, AEW is going to go up because of Raw and pull NXT right along with it.


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> Exactly. $5 million for 3 hours of top content for 52 weeks a year is a steal.
> 
> Raw is not going to go down because of AEW, AEW is going to go up because of Raw and pull NXT right along with it.


Right like if there was a time for Raw to go down it was this contract is. Odds are AEW uses their leverage as a top Wednesday night show to get a bigger deal, while Raw and NXT gets bigger deals based on Raw's great Monday ratings and NXTs decent Wednesday ratings.


----------



## Joe Gill

you guys are over analyzing things as usual... the ratings fluctuating a bit has nothing to do with who is a draw and who isnt... literally every show on tv has fluctuating numbers... it would be like if a sitcom gets 800k viewers one week and gets 850k viewers the next week and fans arguing about which characters are draws. Its stupid and silly. There were maybe 10 wrestlers in the history of wrestling that can move the needle for ratings (hogan, austin, rock, cena and few others).. and no one in AEW has that star power. Ratings will continue to fluctuate week to week and the overall trend will be based on the overall product... not any individual wrestler.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Orange = draw
> Kenny = draw
> squashes = draw
> Darby / sammy = draw
> Dustin = draw
> 
> that is all i guess.... carry on....


You're literally the biggest troll left on this website haha


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Re-read my post. I never once implied I knew what AEW was getting for advertisements. I am talking about the networks themselves. A greater key demo means better rates for advertising.
> At the end of the day, you can disagree all you want. AEW #29 NXT #51. No spin at all. It’s fact.
> 
> the spin is “TeN pErCeNt MaRgIn Of ErRoR” or the same garbage that you like to say. I like you wood; you’re better to debate with than the basic trolls.


That's what I said. It's a fucking lie. A show with a much lower key demo can mean a lot more to advertisers. It's such reductionist bullshit to say that AEW must be getting TNT more from advertising than NXT. You don't know that. There are sooooo many other factors that advertisers look at. They look at your consistency, your other products, your appeal to other demos -- and they do fucking market research and see what those key demos consist of. When they find out they are mostly uncool white people in their 30's, they aren't going to _want_ to see them wearing their sneakers. You're not talking facts at all. What you are doing is the actual spin lol. 

And the ten percent margin of error thing is not garbage. You can ask Google that question. It just doesn't sit well with people who worship Meltzer who takes the ratings so damn literally for some reason, even though common sense tells you that you can't do that when you know how they are tabulated.


----------



## The Wood

I would actually like to know the concrete data behind ratings as small as these in 2020. How many people does one box represent? I'd laugh if three more people with boxes watched AEW more than normal last week because their remotes all broke or something.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I would actually like to know the concrete data behind ratings as small as these in 2020. How many people does one box represent? I'd laugh if three more people with boxes watched AEW more than normal last week because their remotes all broke or something.


Questioning accuracy of ratings - the last resort


----------



## Chairshot620

The Wood said:


> I would actually like to know the concrete data behind ratings as small as these in 2020. How many people does one box represent? I'd laugh if three more people with boxes watched AEW more than normal last week because their remotes all broke or something.


Hey, I can tell you are a smart dude and I respect a lot of what you say, but the above part about broken remotes, that’s a joke right?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> I would actually like to know the concrete data behind ratings as small as these in 2020. How many people does one box represent? I'd laugh if three more people with boxes watched AEW more than normal last week because their remotes all broke or something.


why would you laugh at that?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Good rating. Let’s see this momentum increase.

like @LifeInCattleClass said, imagine when all the regulars return 🤑


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The only real answer this thread now keeps giving us is ‘how long can some people be wrong for’
> 
> and.... is Orange Cassidy the uber draw of all time?


You might be right. Has a following, sells more merch than guys like Moxley and Jericho. Impressive.

imagine if AEW had the same ideas as anti-AEW guys like @The Wood. They would be bankrupt right now 😂


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

IamMark said:


> View attachment 85403
> View attachment 85404


It also looks like non-news shows are creeping back into the top 50. This is where AEW and TNT must take advantage. Full on social media blitz and some strong advertising on TV may bring in some new fans.


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> Nah more likely scenario is that AEW is able to get a massive deal next go around and WWE goes up as well. Everybody just knew WWE's deal would be much smaller this go around, then we're proven massively wrong. Raw still gives USA a top cable show with 150+ hours of cheap to produce television.


- Perhaps but several factors come into play by 2023. Both for WWE and AEW.

TV networks are being badly hit this year as advertising revenue dries up. 2020-2021 will also see a global recession. Cord cutting is expected to continue in a big way, regardless. Peacock and HBO Max could be the focus going forward. Is WWE Raw a loss leader?

Live crowds as we know it could be out of the question until next year. Every wrestling promotion now looks the same as the opposition in terms of production values. Suddenly there is not a lot of difference between WWE and AEW and Impact and MLW. 3 years ago they were doing 3.4 million viewers/1.2 demo; now it's 1.9 million/0.6. Who knows where it finds itself in another 3 years.

In 2018-2019 wrestling fit the agenda of networks trying to top the ratings as it is an easy way to win the cable wars for the year. Streaming models change the game. SD was a strong buy for new era FOX. But there is no guarantee those individual brands will be seen as attractive - the corporate giants may want all of WWE or not at all.

Theoretically wrestling promotions could be all over TV this September. There will likely be a be a where vacuum where the TV industry had to delay/halt production. Wrestling promotions provide original content.


----------



## DOTL

I think the volatility in these numbers suggests AEW has a bigger casual audience than people are willing to give them credit for.


----------



## bdon

Seems like they have a casual audience of around 200k that keep coming back when things are hot, and their core audience is roughly in the 650-700k range. The casuals sticking to DVR when things aren’t great on a weekly basis.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Questioning accuracy of ratings - the last resort


The last resort for what? I don't have any stake in AEW's failure. And it's not a question, it's a fact. Type "Nielsen ratings margin of error" into Google. It's not hard. There are plenty of articles discussing whether or not they should be trusted. They're estimates based on 25,000 homes, I find out. Considering 186 million people have cable, that implies to me that each box is worth about 7,500 people. It obviously isn't that simple, but that's how trivial it is when Big Dave is measuring out 400 people. When you're talking about 100k people, you're probably talking about ten people with boxes. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> why would you laugh at that?


Because people obsessed over these numbers and take them so literally, when you're really talking about two guys in Idaho or something.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> The last resort for what? I don't have any stake in AEW's failure. And it's not a question, it's a fact. Type "Nielsen ratings margin of error" into Google. It's not hard. There are plenty of articles discussing whether or not they should be trusted. They're estimates based on 25,000 homes, I find out. Considering 186 million people have cable, that implies to me that each box is worth about 7,500 people. It obviously isn't that simple, but that's how trivial it is when Big Dave is measuring out 400 people. When you're talking about 100k people, you're probably talking about ten people with boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> Because people obsessed over these numbers and take them so literally, when you're really talking about two guys in Idaho or something.



It works the same way for all shows.
ive researched a bit about ratings lately and it’s clear anyway that the main thing is demographic anyway, and aew seem to be doing well there.


----------



## kingfrass44

bdon said:


> Seems like they have a casual audience of around 200k that keep coming back when things are hot, and their core audience is roughly in the 650-700k range. The casuals sticking to DVR when things aren’t great on a weekly basis.


Your wrong
Not casuals 
DVR Not a scale


----------



## kingfrass44

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The only real answer this thread now keeps giving us is ‘how long can some people be wrong for’
> 
> and.... is Orange Cassidy the uber draw of all time?





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Orange = draw
> Kenny = draw
> squashes = draw
> Darby / sammy = draw
> Dustin = draw
> 
> that is all i guess.... carry on....


The only real answer this thread now keeps giving us is ‘how long you can be wrong for’

Orange Cassidy Not draw 
Orange = Not draw
Kenny = Not draw
squashes = Not draw
Darby / sammy = Not draw
Dustin = Not draw
7000000 Not draw


----------



## kingfrass44

optikk sucks said:


> Good rating. Let’s see this momentum increase.
> 
> like @LifeInCattleClass said, imagine when all the regulars return 🤑


There is no momentum momentum will not increase
Will decrease and and keep the same number


----------



## Danielallen1410

kingfrass44 said:


> There is no momentum momentum will not increase
> Will decrease and and keep the same number


you still watching though?


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Danielallen1410 said:


> you still watching though?


I always think it's funny that he quotes all these guys but no one even bothers with a response.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I always think it's funny that he quotes all these guys but no one even bothers with a response.


nobody can actually read his posts. The English is the most broken I’ve ever seen.


----------



## AEWMoxley

UFC is going to do at least one Wednesday card in May, and probably more over the summer.

AEW is fucked.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> UFC is going to do at least one Wednesday card in May, and probably more over the summer.
> 
> AEW is fucked.


Oh wow. That is a majority of the fanbase.


----------



## Danielallen1410

AEWMoxley said:


> UFC is going to do at least one Wednesday card in May, and probably more over the summer.
> 
> AEW is fucked.


are they likely to do every week then?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Danielallen1410 said:


> are they likely to do every week then?


Not sure. Dana White said he wants to put on a lot of cards over the coming weeks/months to make up for lost time. So I could definitely see them doing it frequently.


----------



## Danielallen1410

AEWMoxley said:


> Not sure. Dana White said he wants to put on a lot of cards over the coming weeks/months to make up for lost time. So I could definitely see them doing it frequently.


im in uk so do t fully understand the popularity of ufc, but if it’s hugely popular it’s bad news for nxt and aew..... maybe they’ll move from wednesdays on weeks it clashes?


----------



## PavelGaborik

AEWMoxley said:


> UFC is going to do at least one Wednesday card in May, and probably more over the summer.
> 
> AEW is fucked.


Don't get your hopes up. I'm a huge MMA fan but the reality is a lot of their international fighters aren't going to be able to make it for some time. That card is only two weeks away and there's not a single announced bout. 

They were just forced to cancel three events. 

What makes you think they'll be hosting events on Wednesday going forward past the 13th?


----------



## AEWMoxley

PavelGaborik said:


> Don't get your hopes up. I'm a huge MMA fan but the reality is a lot of their international fighters aren't going to be able to make it for some time. That card is only two weeks away and there's not a single announced bout.
> 
> They were just forced to cancel three events.
> 
> What makes you think they'll be hosting events on Wednesday going forward past the 13th?


Because Florida has deemed sports to be essential business and UFC now has ESPN's blessing to run events, whereas they did not for UFC 249 earlier this month.


----------



## RiverFenix

80% of UFC cards are shit fights between no-name fighters. They're going to be empty arenas as well - so they'll also suffer from the lack of atmosphere. UFC will not give away big fights on Wednesday night free tv.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> 80% of UFC cards are shit fights between no-name fighters. They're going to be empty arenas as well - so they'll also suffer from the lack of atmosphere. UFC will not give away big fights on Wednesday night free tv.


Dana White wants to make up for lost time. He may very well put some of the bigger fights that have recently been cancelled on Wednesday. Either way, it's a real sport that will be airing live in a time when everyone is craving real live sports. I would expect it to smash its competition.


----------



## Aedubya

Vince & Dana teaming up to take out AEW , probably talked about it at the Trump call


----------



## PavelGaborik

AEWMoxley said:


> Because Florida has deemed sports to be essential business and UFC now has ESPN's blessing to run events, whereas they did not for UFC 249 earlier this month.


Yes but you're ignoring the fact that a strong portion of their roster is still not going to be available. 

Don't celebrate it until it comes to fruition. I wouldn't count on the UFC running multiple shows a week anytime soon with their extremely limited roster.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PavelGaborik said:


> Yes but you're ignoring the fact that a strong portion of their roster is still not going to be available.
> 
> Don't celebrate it until it comes to fruition. I wouldn't count on the UFC running multiple shows a week anytime soon with their extremely limited roster.


What’s there to celebrate anyway?


----------



## Cult03

PavelGaborik said:


> Yes but you're ignoring the fact that a strong portion of their roster is still not going to be available.
> 
> Don't celebrate it until it comes to fruition. I wouldn't count on the UFC running multiple shows a week anytime soon with their extremely limited roster.


Watching two bums fight in a cage is still better than watching anything Marko Stunt can do.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Danielallen1410 said:


> What’s there to celebrate anyway?


The return of MMA. I've literally made it painfully obvious by now that I'm an avid MMA fan.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Cult03 said:


> Watching two bums fight in a cage is still better than watching anything Marko Stunt can do.


I enjoy watching the little turd get squashed personally.

I concur that he's terrible and think he needs to be kept out of the ring for good moving forward. 

My point was there's the UFC has their work cut out for them moving forward. They'll likely be forced to use some mediocre fighters pushing forward. They've had issues with watered down cards as it is.


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEW don't have much to worry about. UFC ratings for their usual TV fights with crowd is usually pretty low. They struggle to get over a million. So they aint gonna do much with no crowd as Dana aint stupid enough to put big names on free TV. Only a few big names in UFC can move the needle significantly anyway.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I was naive thinking the poster was worried about aew.

but no he’s another one hoping it fails. Sad.


----------



## The Wood

It’ll be interesting. The UFC hasn’t always done been numbers TV-wise, but its presentation is probably going to be overall better. People talk about their being no names, but what if there are? And who in AEW is really a name big enough to detract from priority viewing?

At the very least, the split could damage AEW’s core audience strength. If AEW gets 500k, NXT gets 500k and the UFC gets 450k, it’s still going to be a steeper hill from AEW to come back from.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> It’ll be interesting. The UFC hasn’t always done been numbers TV-wise, but its presentation is probably going to be overall better. People talk about their being no names, but what if there are? And who in AEW is really a name big enough to detract from priority viewing?
> 
> At the very least, the split could damage AEW’s core audience strength. If AEW gets 500k, NXT gets 500k and the UFC gets 450k, it’s still going to be a steeper hill from AEW to come back from.


and you’ve tissues ready in hope


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> and you’ve tissues ready in hope


Eh, at this point I am apathetic about the success or failure of AEW. I’ve already made peace with it not being the revolution they promised, and understand it is not the wrestling alternative that is going to make things click. I can’t will it into being that. Wrestling is just going to get even more niche and it’s less likely we’ll see another billionaire give it a chance.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Eh, at this point I am apathetic about the success or failure of AEW. I’ve already made peace with it not being the revolution they promised, and understand it is not the wrestling alternative that is going to make things click. I can’t will it into being that. Wrestling is just going to get even more niche and it’s less likely we’ll see another billionaire give it a chance.


lets hope you are wrong. For everyone’s sake. I don’t want another ten years of unwatchable products.


----------



## AEWMoxley

PavelGaborik said:


> Yes but you're ignoring the fact that a strong portion of their roster is still not going to be available.
> 
> Don't celebrate it until it comes to fruition. I wouldn't count on the UFC running multiple shows a week anytime soon with their extremely limited roster.


Let's see how Fight Island pans out. It could just be a way for Dana to stay in the news by making these claims, but if it's real, then they could be putting on fights for international fighters there.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> Watching two bums fight in a cage is still better than watching anything Marko Stunt can do.


Eh, im honestly ok with Stunt. He serves a purpose and is over enough to make the match have reactions.


----------



## PavelGaborik

AEWMoxley said:


> Let's see how Fight Island pans out. It could just be a way of Dana to stay in the news by making these claims, but if it's real, then they could be putting on fights for international fighters there.


If there's one thing I've learned over the years.... 











With that being said fighter island sounds epic beyond words and I do hope he's not full of shit for once...but I'm not getting my hopes up...I doubt that ever happens.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Eh, im honestly ok with Stunt. He serves a purpose and is over enough to make the match have reactions.


It doesn't really surprise me which of you are ok with Marko Stunt


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> It doesn't really surprise me which of you are ok with Marko Stunt


Used as a jobber, he works. You can replace him with a dozen other guys and I would feel the same. Every company needs jobbers. They can't all be Norman Smiley or Brooklyn Brawler level.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> Used as a jobber, he works. You can replace him with a dozen other guys and I would feel the same. Every company needs jobbers. They can't all be Norman Smiley or Brooklyn Brawler level.


He doesn't work because literally anyone should beat him. Then when he does get destroyed he just shows up the next week like nothing happened. It makes his opponent look weak and therefore he does not work as a jobber.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

All jobbers should be at least somewhat impressive anyway after all they've made it to the big leagues in some capacity.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> All jobbers should be at least somewhat impressive anyway after all they've made it to the big leagues in some capacity.


Jobbers in 2020 should be local indie wrestlers getting a chance to shine. AEW has actually done it well apart from Stunt, Cutler, Nakazawa, Avalon and QT Marshall. Having any of these on full time contracts and naming yourself All Elite is a joke


----------



## Danielallen1410

Cult03 said:


> He doesn't work because literally anyone should beat him. Then when he does get destroyed he just shows up the next week like nothing happened. It makes his opponent look weak and therefore he does not work as a jobber.





Chip Chipperson said:


> All jobbers should be at least somewhat impressive anyway after all they've made it to the big leagues in some capacity.





Cult03 said:


> Jobbers in 2020 should be local indie wrestlers getting a chance to shine. AEW has actually done it well apart from Stunt, Cutler, Nakazawa, Avalon and QT Marshall. Having any of these on full time contracts and naming yourself All Elite is a joke


why does everything have to be the way YOU want it.

aew use Marko, deal with it.


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> why does everything have to be the way YOU want it.
> 
> aew use Marko, deal with it.


Because it's the better option, not the option you guys will settle for. Your rant in the other thread is forgetting that all I've ever asked for is for this company to take the best option. If the fans can just admit they aren't taking the best option then we could move on. Sorry I'm not settling for this bullshit.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Cult03 said:


> Because it's the better option, not the option you guys will settle for. Your rant in the other thread is forgetting that all I've ever asked for is for this company to take the best option. If the fans can just admit they aren't taking the best option then we could move on. Sorry I'm not settling for this bullshit.


i Don’t mind that you don’t like it, I just don’t get why you keep going on and on.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Shit I actually like Nakazawa and The Librarian. We must all see things differently, they seem like fantastic jobbers.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Aew deserve a good rating this week, great show.

nxt have stacked their show next week though.


----------



## Erik.

TNA used to g


Danielallen1410 said:


> Aew deserve a good rating this week, great show.
> 
> nxt have stacked their show next week though.


NXTs STACKED card up against Dynamites first live show in weeks. 

I do wonder if we get any..... Surprises


----------



## Pippen94

Danielallen1410 said:


> Aew deserve a good rating this week, great show.
> 
> nxt have stacked their show next week though.


Didn't learn their lesson


----------



## patpat

Danielallen1410 said:


> Why aren’t they releasing quarter hours for the shows at the moment, haven’t seen any for weeks.


I have them some people just use them when its convenient for their agendas but here it is 
And most time those quarter breakdown will paint a VERYYYY different picture from what you see here 


Q1: Colt vs Archer: 703K
Q2: End of Colt vs Archer, Britt vignette, Mox/Hager videopackage, Britt vs Cassandra: 638K
Q3: Inner Circle vignette, Sammy vs Sugar D: 661k
Q4: End of Sammy vs Sugar D, beginning of Kip vs Chuckie T:653K
Q5: Kip vs Chuckie T: 707K
Q6: Spears vs Law, Beginning of Mox vs Hager: 729K
Q7: Mox vs Hager: 710K
Q8: End of Mox vs Hager: 660K


----------



## Danielallen1410

Erik. said:


> TNA used to g
> 
> 
> NXTs STACKED card up against Dynamites first live show in weeks.
> 
> I do wonder if we get any..... Surprises


I think so.

on paper I can see nxt winning next week due to what’s advertised, nxt Title match, women’s title match, killer cross debut and Gargano vs dijakovic.

Nxt going to WCW route of hotshotting to win ratings. Dream vs Cole should be a takeover match really.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> I think so.
> 
> on paper I can see nxt winning next week due to what’s advertised, nxt Title match, women’s title match, killer cross debut and Gargano vs dijakovic.
> 
> Nxt going to WCW route of hotshotting to win ratings. Dream vs Cole should be a takeover match really.


Heavily hyping an episode of TV and promoting is as a huge episode is the complete opposite of hotshotting...


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Heavily hyping an episode of TV and promoting is as a huge episode is the complete opposite of hotshotting...


Hotshotting (for me) is when you do a match on a regular show when it should happen during a ppv.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> Hotshotting (for me) is when you do a match on a regular show when it should happen during a ppv.


Traditionally that was more of the case but in 2020 TV means more than PPV. Putting a big match on a heavily hyped TV show is fine now at least in my opinion.

Now if they threw it away randomly on TV with 4 days build that'd be different.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> Hotshotting (for me) is when you do a match on a regular show when it should happen during a ppv.


yep.

sort of thing wwe used to criticise wcw for doing.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

“NXT WaS AlReAdY oN WeDnEsDaY. WWE dOnT ConSidEr AEW aS cOmPeTiTiOn”

Yet here we are 🧐. Proven wrong as always. And NXT stilll won’t win lol 😂


----------



## NathanMayberry

Danielallen1410 said:


> I just don’t get why you keep going on and on.


This is a forum, not a safe space

If you want an echo chamber, start paying off the mods here, like Tony khan has done to the mods on reddit, to ensure that no criticsm of AEW ever makes it to the front page


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Traditionally that was more of the case but in 2020 TV means more than PPV. Putting a big match on a heavily hyped TV show is fine now at least in my opinion.
> 
> Now if they threw it away randomly on TV with 4 days build that'd be different.


I agree. I honestly don’t understand why folks still bother with PPVs. Seriously.Imagine the rating that Jericho v Mox would have pulled on TV. Bet their segment would have hit a 1.2 QH.


----------



## Danielallen1410

NathanMayberry said:


> This is a forum, not a safe space
> 
> If you want an echo chamber, start paying off the mods here, like Tony khan has done to the mods on reddit, to ensure that no criticsm of AEW ever makes it to the front page


the only echo chamber is the negative posters.

negative opinions are welcome, I’ve had my own. But repeated negativity and opinions is draining.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Danielallen1410 said:


> the only echo chamber is the negative posters.
> 
> negative opinions are welcome, I’ve had my own. But repeated negativity and opinions is draining.


Echo chambers don't have back and forth discussions, just absolutes, like you seem to be advocating for.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> This is a forum, not a safe space
> 
> If you want an echo chamber, start paying off the mods here, like Tony khan has done to the mods on reddit, to ensure that no criticsm of AEW ever makes it to the front page


You think any wrestling [or posts that don’t mock wrestling] makes the front page of Reddit? 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> You think any wrestling [or posts that don’t mock wrestling] makes the front page of Reddit? 😂


I would suggest Nathan means the front page of the wrestling section...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I would suggest Nathan means the front page of the wrestling section...


I mean in any case, what reaches the front page is not about “the moderators being paid off by Tony Khan” but what people upvote or downvote. It’s community driven. Maybe there’s just a _SHOCK GASP_ strong following on reddit? 🤭

what kinda crackpot theory is it that they’d pay off reddit moderators? LMAO.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Danielallen1410

IamMark said:


> View attachment 85652
> 
> View attachment 85653


lost viewers, they didn’t deserve that this week, was a great show.


----------



## bdon

Did they just do half of Raw’s demo?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ouchies


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Did they just do half of Raw’s demo?


Didnt they do this basically from the start (maybe besides the last couple of weeks)?


----------



## PavelGaborik

I don't get the fan base. 

Last night was miles better than last weeks episode and they lose viewers.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PavelGaborik said:


> I don't get the fan base.
> 
> Last night was miles better than last weeks episode and they lose viewers.


me neither, should go up in theory next week with it being live, but it never seems to make sense. Last weeks show wasn’t grewt, the week before was better but lost to nxt, last weeks went up. No idea.


----------



## RainmakerV2

fabi1982 said:


> Didnt they do this basically from the start (maybe besides the last couple of weeks)?



Archers not established and Dustin isnt drawing in 2020. That went way too long btw.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I don’t understand how the ratings in America work fully but surely even if nxt have more viewers it isn’t good they aren’t even getting in this demo chart.


----------



## fabi1982

RainmakerV2 said:


> Archers not established and Dustin isnt drawing in 2020. That went way too long btw.


I actually stopped watching after the no dq, second time this happened with me watching aew...but I meant they usually have half the demo of RAW in response to bdons question. But yeah weak show for me.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Nxt 637k, both lost similar amounts.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Didnt they do this basically from the start (maybe besides the last couple of weeks)?


That is possible. I haven’t paid attention to Raw’s ratings all that much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ratings 🤷‍♂️

obviously not a great indicator of a good show

650k seems to be the hardcore fans / 651 - 799 wrestling in general fans / 800+ casuals?


----------



## rbl85

The funny thing is that for AEW every demo was up except the 50+ who was down.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I’ll be gobsmacked if next week both shows don’t go up but with nxt winning, then back to normal the week after.


----------



## Erik.

Both shows will get 700k+ next week. NXT card is stacked and AEW is back to being live so potentially anything could happen.

But yeah, wrestling without crowds just aren't watchable to alot of people. Raw, AEW, Smackdown and NXT have all lost about 1,000,000 rough viewers combined since the shows started going crowdless.

That's a huge viewing audience for wrestling in 2020.


----------



## rbl85

Sad thing about those shows without crowd is that there was so much moments that you know the crowd would have pop hard for it.


----------



## Mike E

Its nice to see AEW back in the top 20. I think NXT looks fantastic on paper next week, they should in theory gain alot of viewers. They are basically putting a pay-per-view on free TV.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Mike E said:


> Its nice to see AEW back in the top 20. I think NXT looks fantastic on paper next week, they should in theory gain alot of viewers. They are basically putting a pay-per-view on free TV.


This is where aew are making a mistake with double or nothing.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> This is where aew are making a mistake with double or nothing.


1 show with possibly good ratings does not bring the same amount of money than a PPV

Also we already saw the viewers who tune in when a huge card is announce does not watch the show the week after.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> 1 show with possibly good ratings does not bring the same amount of money than a PPV
> 
> Also we already saw the viewers who tune in when a huge card is announce does not watch the show the week after.


cant see many paying for double or nothing.


----------



## Mike E

Danielallen1410 said:


> This is where aew are making a mistake with double or nothing.


I'm just waiting a couple weeks to see how AEW build up to the pay-per-view. I think they are going to put up some great episodes of Dynamite. Double or nothing doesn't look to impressive on paper, but that could change quickly. Only time will tell i guess.


----------



## Seafort

PavelGaborik said:


> I don't get the fan base.
> 
> Last night was miles better than last weeks episode and they lose viewers.


Viewership is a lagging indicator. It takes weeks of good episodes before viewership goes up. Conversely, you can have weeks of bad shows before the downward trend really solidifies (WCW Nitro 1999)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

It’s a good rating guys. AEW have stayed consistent. Let’s hope that when things do eventually return to normal, they can go back to >900k.


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> It’s a good rating guys. AEW have stayed consistent. Let’s hope that when things do eventually return to normal, they can go back to >900k.


Should be easily achievable.

By the time crowds are allowed back in and people feel comfortable attending, it will be a novelty to see sold out arenas. They also have that war games match. The roster is becoming more and more established, which should create some compelling television as Page and MJF chase the world championship. Cody's story line arc is a long running thing too. Miroslav and Revolt will be interesting additions, should they sign.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Seafort said:


> Viewership is a lagging indicator. It takes weeks of good episodes before viewership goes up. Conversely, you can have weeks of bad shows before the downward trend really solidifies (WCW Nitro 1999)


There hasn't been a trend either way though - is what I mean. Generally speaking you should see a small spike of views just from people being told to tune in. This week had a better card to boot on paper. 

We haven't seen that much with Dynamite. It's been a bit all over the place at times.


----------



## iarwain

Why do NXT's ratings always come out later than AEW's?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The way ratings work as someone else pointed out above is consistency. The casual wrestling fan who just tunes in week to week (Who hopefully these ratings are actually indicative of) doesn't follow the internet or know that a big match has been announced for next weeks episode. 

Last weeks show was pretty bad with the only hook really being a predictable "I'll retire if I lose" angle (Which was only announced online), the week before that had the heavily hyped Hager/Moxley match which the fans kind of got screwed over on. I don't overanalyse the ratings but it very well could've possibly been a case of people watching the AEW World Title match, deciding that they'd give next week a chance and then getting another bad show and deciding they wouldn't watch this weeks which is a shame because it was actually a good episode.


----------



## SPCDRI

iarwain said:


> Why do NXT's ratings always come out later than AEW's?


They do worse in the 18-49 demo, top 50 in the 18-49 demo is released first. Lots of times, NXT doesn't chart top 50.


----------



## Danielallen1410

In the argument about tv networks possibly cancelling shows, surely tnt even if viewership stays low, are happy that aew is always in the top 50.

its clear to me that overall viewership doesn’t really matter, nxt not charting at all can’t be good, I watched nxt last night and that was a good show.


----------



## rbl85

Last week the Orange vs Havoc match was the draw of the show


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Danielallen1410 said:


> In the argument about tv networks possibly cancelling shows, surely tnt even if viewership stays low, are happy that aew is always in the top 50.
> 
> its clear to me that overall viewership doesn’t really matter, nxt not charting at all can’t be good, I watched nxt last night and that was a good show.


AEW now, in the pandemic - is still doing better than anything else TNT had on a wed night the years’ prior - where they were mostly getting 500 - 550 a night


----------



## Seafort

PavelGaborik said:


> There hasn't been a trend either way though - is what I mean. Generally speaking you should see a small spike of views just from people being told to tune in. This week had a better card to boot on paper.
> 
> We haven't seen that much with Dynamite. It's been a bit all over the place at times.


The current situation has skewed AEW, in my opinion. Prior to it, the general trend was to a gradual increase. They had bottomed out prior to the episode that took place on the cruise and were very slowly rebuilding from there. Personally I think of all of the promotions they are by far doing the best in maintaining an interesting program, but shelter in place is limiting what they can bring to the table on a given week. 

NXT's big opportunity to build a convincing lead over AEW vanished when WWE stopped pushing the interpromotional angle after Survivor Series.


----------



## Clique

*I deleted some posts. Let’s keep the focus here on AEW and their numbers and cut out the political talk. Thank you.*


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Danielallen1410

That’s a huge L for NXT considering they really went for it last night.


----------



## qntntgood

Aew is climbing charts I see,that's better then last week.


----------



## PavelGaborik

NXT cannot compete with AEW when both put out their big guns.

They had their two most important titles featured last night and still lost by 70k. That is brutal.

Where are all the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" geeks at?


----------



## Erik.

Both shows went up in viewers and demo. 

Good for them!


----------



## Chan Hung

Danielallen1410 said:


> That’s a huge L for NXT considering they really went for it last night.


Yup they went all fucking out, Charlotte, Finn, debut of Kross..damn!


----------



## Frost99

Ouch, NXT got _*"Guevara'ed" *_ in the ratings as shown here....


----------



## bdon

What was Raw’s 18-49 demo this week? 👀


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> What was Raw’s 18-49 demo this week? 👀


Way more than AEW.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Damn that's bad for NXT.
Was expecting a bit more for AEW.... I guess they need more of Nakazawa and OC! 😅


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Way more than AEW.


So, AEW doing roughly 66% of RAW in the demo is normal?


----------



## bdon




----------



## ElTerrible

Forget AEW for a moment. Wasn´t NXT supposed to be the hip branch of the WWE product, yet their demo is 50+. That´s not even people that were young (< 30) during the AE. That´s more like the Hulkamania generation.


----------



## bdon

When was the last time a wrestling show outdid Raw in that demo?


----------



## Dark Emperor

bdon said:


> When was the last time a wrestling show outdid Raw in that demo?


Smackdown does it every week. 

Its not head to head so they didnt really beat Raw in that demo. YOu can only compare the demo on same night as its based on % on that given night. 
More actual 18-34 males watched Raw on Monday then Wednesday AEW. Meltzer is very clever in how he interpretes these ratings lol.


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> Smackdown does it every week.
> 
> Its not head to head so they didnt really beat Raw in that demo. YOu can only compare the demo on same night as its based on % on that given night.
> More actual 18-34 males watched Raw on Monday then Wednesday AEW. Meltzer is very clever in how he interpretes these ratings lol.


I get that about it being different nights.

As for SD “beating” them, I should have elaborated by saying when did a non-WWE wrestling show beat them in that demo?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Forget just the viewership AEW wins the demo by .10 and NXT is still in the .1X's. OUCH!


----------



## Jazminator

It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


----------



## ElTerrible

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


70 year old people don´t use the internet.


----------



## bdon

Vince took my show from me in 2001.

THE WAR IS STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!!! Lol


----------



## taker1986

Good for AEW. Next week's card looks good as well so hopefully they keep this momentum going.

Also I saw on twitter last night that both AEW and NXT were trending 1 and 2 worldwide at one point. I don't watch much of NXT myself but this is good for wrestling.


----------



## kuja killer

Really glad aew went up. I really wished it was more though. I seriously said out-loud to myself last night while watching, this had better get ratings!! when matt hardy was chasing down jericho and sammy in the golf cart parts.

That shit made me laugh so freaking hard i loved it to death. I really had hoped they would of got alot more viewers than 732,000 "overall" from that match. Oh well...


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> View attachment 86005





IamMark said:


> View attachment 86004


I don't get how that's considered outdrawing Raw when Raw did a .61, .57, and .54


----------



## bdon

They outdrew Raw in the 18-34 male demographic.


----------



## AEW_19

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


It's a fun "sporting" rivalry to look forward to each week. In all seriousness, both shows will pick up steam when crowds are back.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> They outdrew Raw in the 18-34 male demographic.


I'm lost because the chart doesn't seem to show that. For 18-34 it looks like AEW did a .17 and Raw did a .19, .21, and .22


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> I'm lost because the chart doesn't seem to show that. For 18-34 it looks like AEW did a .17 and Raw did a .19, .21, and .22
> 
> View attachment 86007


That’s 12-34

but either way, I don’t know how those guys who tweeted the 18-34 demo got the numbers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

either way, nice to see some consistency. And also the slight ratings boost!


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> That’s 12-34
> 
> but either way, I don’t know how those guys who tweeted the 18-34 demo got the numbers.


Nah the one I quoted was for P18-34(whatever that means) then the next two rows switched to 12-34 which is random as fuck lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Nah the one I quoted was for P18-34(whatever that means) then the next two rows switched to 12-34 which is random as fuck lol.


P is for both male and female. But yeah, it still doesn’t really make sense to me.

Btw the same fanboy vs fanboy thing is going on pretty heavily for Xbox and ps5 right now. It’s kinda fun to se, especially after the shambles showing by Microsoft today.


----------



## RapShepard

I wonder how long before they can get back into the top 5.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> P is for both male and female. But yeah, it still doesn’t really make sense to me.
> 
> Btw the same fanboy vs fanboy thing is going on pretty heavily for Xbox and ps5 right now. It’s kinda fun to se, especially after the shambles showing by Microsoft today.


Wait. What happened with Microsoft?


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> P is for both male and female. But yeah, it still doesn’t really make sense to me.
> 
> Btw the same fanboy vs fanboy thing is going on pretty heavily for Xbox and ps5 right now. It’s kinda fun to se, especially after the shambles showing by Microsoft today.


Yeah I heard their conference today was a slight let down. I'm a big gamer but I'm not really a specs whore so none of that really interests me. I'm getting the next Xbox solely off preferring their controller. Both companies exclusives don't interest me


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Wait. What happened with Microsoft?


Go look at the reactions for Xbox’s youtube stream today. Funny as hell lol.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


Hardly anything gets discussed in there about anything.


----------



## patpat

optikk sucks said:


> Go look at the reactions for Xbox’s youtube stream today. Funny as hell lol.


Xbox needs to be careful they dont have 1/4 of the leverage sony had. Sony did a random tweet of their controller and generated more activity and interest than xbox dropping the design of their console. The ps4's domination left a "playstation= videogame" taste in people's mind. And sony has too much card to play horizon god of war spider man etc. 
Xbox need to play their card right or they are fucking screwed


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


its easier to shitpost here and trying to spin AEWs figs into a negative

peeps can‘t stand people enjoying themselves.

personally, i don’t care one bit about nxt’s figs - they can win every week.

but i like to see aew do well


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

kuja killer said:


> Really glad aew went up. I really wished it was more though. I seriously said out-loud to myself last night while watching, this had better get ratings!! when matt hardy was chasing down jericho and sammy in the golf cart parts.
> 
> That shit made me laugh so freaking hard i loved it to death. I really had hoped they would of got alot more viewers than 732,000 "overall" from that match. Oh well...


i mean, Nielson is a failed system

both shows more than likely have over 2m viewers worldwide, if not more


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

patpat said:


> Xbox needs to be careful they dont have 1/4 of the leverage sony had. Sony did a random tweet of their controller and generated more activity and interest than xbox dropping the design of their console. The ps4's domination left a "playstation= videogame" taste in people's mind. And sony has too much card to play horizon god of war spider man etc.
> Xbox need to play their card right or they are fucking screwed


Unless Xbox can stop relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, they are screwed anyway. Crackdown is ass. What else do they have?


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Unless Xbox can stop relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, they are screwed anyway. Crackdown is ass. What else do they have?


Personally hate all their exclusives save for Forza Horizon and Left 4 Dead which won't get a 3 because of Valve lol


----------



## Danielallen1410

Just watched nxt, I do think they are slowly building something over there, the shows make sense and they’re doing a good job, wouldn’t surprise me if they won a few in a short while, but even so it’s good to have two good wrestling shows, I wish they weren’t competing.........also NWA power starts again next week and Impact has really picked up too, it’s a good time to be a fan.


----------



## DrewCN

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


Nxt fans actually come here to vent and argue instead of there


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

lol damn


----------



## DOTL

Jazminator said:


> It’s interesting to me how important ratings are for AEW fans. I looked in the NXT section, and there the Ratings thread hasn’t had a new post in two months.


If you consistently didn’t post too well, you wouldn’t be all that interested either.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Unless Xbox can stop relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, they are screwed anyway. Crackdown is ass. What else do they have?


So disappointing. The first Crackdown game was one of my favorites back on 360.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

PavelGaborik said:


> NXT cannot compete with AEW when both put out their big guns.
> 
> They had their two most important titles featured last night and still lost by 70k. That is brutal.
> 
> Where are all the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" geeks at?


Man, I had to cringe at this post. Sorry man.

Some analysis for you to consider:

1. AEW did 732,000 viewers this week (I only care about totals not demographics) which is down from their initial of 1.4 million. AEW has lost almost 50% of the people that were initially willing to give it a go since October (Approximately 700,000 people). Meanwhile, in October we saw NXT get a rating of 891,000 people and is now 663,000 people meaning NXT has lost just over 200,000 people. One could make the argument that the drop in ratings week to week from over a million to 600-700 thousand very much proves the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" "geeks" correct.

2. 5-6 years ago when TNA was finishing up it's Spike run and got dumped due to lack of ratings they were doing around what AEW does now ratings wise after losing the likes of Hogan, Flair etc. You are legitimately celebrating and high fiving over doing similar numbers that TNA fans were absolutely horrified with 5-6 years ago. 

3. A 70k win or loss means very little in terms of TV ratings and isn't even a significant win. Most TV execs would consider the brands equal. Also, lets take the following into account:

NXT: Yes, two title matches but how many nationally known WWE stars appeared on the show? I'm not much of a WWE guy (Despite being told I am regularly on here) so forgive me if I'm wrong but Adam Cole has only had a handful of matches on the main brand, Finn Balor popped up to cut a promo this past episode and I know he was or is a main roster guy and the only other big star they had on was Charlotte Flair. That's three wrestlers that you could class as "main roster talent" and only two that would really entice the WWE main roster to check out NXT. 

Compare it to AEW:

Cody, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, the debut of Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, WWE Hall Of Famer Jake Roberts (In his most interesting role in decades mind you), Lance Archer, Brodie Lee, An AEW World Title match featuring Jon Moxley, AEW favourite MJF returning, and a falls count anywhere main event.

Looking at that analysis AEW has arguably a top ten wrestler of all time in Jericho, a guy considered one of the best to never be in WWE in Omega, one of the greatest tag wrestlers of all time in Hardy, Cody who spent many years on the WWE main roster, a former World Champion in Hager, one of the greatest characters of all time in Roberts, Brodie Lee who is fresh off WWE TV, a former WWE Champion in Moxley, a big championship match and a falls count anywhere match which is always a draw.

In return WWE had former WWE Champion Finn Balor, Charlotte Flair and a guy who has made a handful of appearances on the main roster in Adam Cole. No speciality matches and certainly not an all out effort like you're trying to claim. Looking at that on paper AEW should've won by much much more.


4. You're only counting domestic viewership not international. NXT airs in more international markets so each week they would no doubt have more people watching week to week then AEW does internationally. That's not counting NXT's WWE Network viewers either.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Man, I had to cringe at this post. Sorry man.
> 
> Some analysis for you to consider:
> 
> 1. AEW did 732,000 viewers this week (I only care about totals not demographics) which is down from their initial of 1.4 million. AEW has lost almost 50% of the people that were initially willing to give it a go since October (Approximately 700,000 people). Meanwhile, in October we saw NXT get a rating of 891,000 people and is now 663,000 people meaning NXT has lost just over 200,000 people. One could make the argument that the drop in ratings week to week from over a million to 600-700 thousand very much proves the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" "geeks" correct.
> 
> 2. 5-6 years ago when TNA was finishing up it's Spike run and got dumped due to lack of ratings they were doing around what AEW does now ratings wise after losing the likes of Hogan, Flair etc. You are legitimately celebrating and high fiving over doing similar numbers that TNA fans were absolutely horrified with 5-6 years ago.
> 
> 3. A 70k win or loss means very little in terms of TV ratings and isn't even a significant win. Most TV execs would consider the brands equal. Also, lets take the following into account:
> 
> NXT: Yes, two title matches but how many nationally known WWE stars appeared on the show? I'm not much of a WWE guy (Despite being told I am regularly on here) so forgive me if I'm wrong but Adam Cole has only had a handful of matches on the main brand, Finn Balor popped up to cut a promo this past episode and I know he was or is a main roster guy and the only other big star they had on was Charlotte Flair. That's three wrestlers that you could class as "main roster talent" and only two that would really entice the WWE main roster to check out NXT.
> 
> Compare it to AEW:
> 
> Cody, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, the debut of Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, WWE Hall Of Famer Jake Roberts (In his most interesting role in decades mind you), Lance Archer, Brodie Lee, An AEW World Title match featuring Jon Moxley, AEW favourite MJF returning, and a falls count anywhere main event.
> 
> Looking at that analysis AEW has arguably a top ten wrestler of all time in Jericho, a guy considered one of the best to never be in WWE in Omega, one of the greatest tag wrestlers of all time in Hardy, Cody who spent many years on the WWE main roster, a former World Champion in Hager, one of the greatest characters of all time in Roberts, Brodie Lee who is fresh off WWE TV, a former WWE Champion in Moxley, a big championship match and a falls count anywhere match which is always a draw.
> 
> In return WWE had former WWE Champion Finn Balor, Charlotte Flair and a guy who has made a handful of appearances on the main roster in Adam Cole. No speciality matches and certainly not an all out effort like you're trying to claim. Looking at that on paper AEW should've won by much much more.
> 
> 
> 4. You're only counting domestic viewership not international. NXT airs in more international markets so each week they would no doubt have more people watching week to week then AEW does internationally. That's not counting NXT's WWE Network viewers either.


Stay salty, my friends..?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Stay salty, my friends..?


Not at all, I don't have any dog in the fight and to be honest would prefer AEW to be killing it because it'd be good for WWE to get a scare and for the AEW guys to make more and more money. It just is embarrassing to see guys going crazy over numbers that are super average and claiming NXT did everything they could to beat AEW but couldn't.

You have to be fair with it all.


----------



## Peerless

Q1: AEW opens at 714,000 for Cody Rhodes vs Joey Janela; NXT opens at 739,000 for Johnny Gargano vs Dijakovic

Q2: AEW lost 7,000 for ending of Janela-Cody, Nyla Rose vs McKenzie Page; NXT lost 45,000 viewers for end of Dijakovic vs Gargano and Tozawa vs Gallagher

Q3: AEW lost 56,000 for MJF, Shawn Spears video package; NXT gained 43,000 for Chelsea Greene vs Xia Li and Velveteen promo

Q4: AEW gained 90,000 viewers for Jon Moxley vs Kazarian; NXT lost 84,000 viewers for Karrion Kross debut

Q5: AEW lost 3,000 viewers for the ending of Moxley vs Kazarian & Dark Order beatdown; NXT gained 40,000 viewers for beginning of Io Shirai vs Charlotte Flair

Q6: AEW lost 36,000 viewers for Lance Archer vs QT Marshall & Brandi Rhodes promo; NXT lost 37,000 viewers for Rhea & Io Shirai arguing and beginning of KUSHIDA vs Atlas

Q7: AEW gained 66,000 viewers for beginning of Omega-Hardy vs Guevara-Jericho, NXT lost 42,000 for Finn Balor promo & Cameron Grimes squash

Q8: AEW gained 70,000 viewers for the ending of the Street fight, which includes the Golf Cart spot; NXT lost 34,000 viewers for Adam Cole vs Velveteen Dream.


----------



## Chan Hung

Once fans get their asses back in the seats, i'll be curious what the ratings are then...


----------



## Chan Hung

Peerless said:


> Q1: AEW opens at 714,000 for Cody Rhodes vs Joey Janela; NXT opens at 739,000 for Johnny Gargano vs Dijakovic
> 
> Q2: AEW lost 7,000 for ending of Janela-Cody, Nyla Rose vs McKenzie Page; NXT lost 45,000 viewers for end of Dijakovic vs Gargano and Tozawa vs Gallagher
> 
> Q3: AEW lost 56,000 for MJF, Shawn Spears video package; NXT gained 43,000 for Chelsea Greene vs Xia Li and Velveteen promo
> 
> Q4: AEW gained 90,000 viewers for Jon Moxley vs Kazarian; NXT lost 84,000 viewers for Karrion Kross debut
> 
> Q5: AEW lost 3,000 viewers for the ending of Moxley vs Kazarian & Dark Order beatdown; NXT gained 40,000 viewers for beginning of Io Shirai vs Charlotte Flair
> 
> Q6: AEW lost 36,000 viewers for Lance Archer vs QT Marshall & Brandi Rhodes promo; NXT lost 37,000 viewers for Rhea & Io Shirai arguing and beginning of KUSHIDA vs Atlas
> 
> Q7: AEW gained 66,000 viewers for beginning of Omega-Hardy vs Guevara-Jericho, NXT lost 42,000 for Finn Balor promo & Cameron Grimes squash
> 
> Q8: AEW gained 70,000 viewers for the ending of the Street fight, which includes the Golf Cart spot; NXT lost 34,000 viewers for Adam Cole vs Velveteen Dream.


That ending i tell ya! Remember Orton vs Hardy was a draw wasn't it? Put Hardy on TV more damnit! lol


----------



## Peerless

838,000 tuned in for the end of the tag match. Hopefully, there's a carry-over next week.


----------



## kuja killer

Peerless said:


> Q8: AEW gained 70,000 viewers for the ending of the Street fight, which includes the Golf Cart spot; NXT lost 34,000 viewers for Adam Cole vs Velveteen Dream.


awesomeeee, that's what i was truly hoping for at the very least.  to get a big gain by the time the golf cart scenes started.


----------



## bdon

MJF IS A DRAW!!!!


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> MJF IS A DRAW!!!!


He is carrying the show brother


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Man, I had to cringe at this post. Sorry man.
> 
> Some analysis for you to consider:
> 
> 1. AEW did 732,000 viewers this week (I only care about totals not demographics) which is down from their initial of 1.4 million. AEW has lost almost 50% of the people that were initially willing to give it a go since October (Approximately 700,000 people). Meanwhile, in October we saw NXT get a rating of 891,000 people and is now 663,000 people meaning NXT has lost just over 200,000 people. One could make the argument that the drop in ratings week to week from over a million to 600-700 thousand very much proves the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" "geeks" correct.
> 
> 2. 5-6 years ago when TNA was finishing up it's Spike run and got dumped due to lack of ratings they were doing around what AEW does now ratings wise after losing the likes of Hogan, Flair etc. You are legitimately celebrating and high fiving over doing similar numbers that TNA fans were absolutely horrified with 5-6 years ago.
> 
> 3. A 70k win or loss means very little in terms of TV ratings and isn't even a significant win. Most TV execs would consider the brands equal. Also, lets take the following into account:
> 
> NXT: Yes, two title matches but how many nationally known WWE stars appeared on the show? I'm not much of a WWE guy (Despite being told I am regularly on here) so forgive me if I'm wrong but Adam Cole has only had a handful of matches on the main brand, Finn Balor popped up to cut a promo this past episode and I know he was or is a main roster guy and the only other big star they had on was Charlotte Flair. That's three wrestlers that you could class as "main roster talent" and only two that would really entice the WWE main roster to check out NXT.
> 
> Compare it to AEW:
> 
> Cody, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, the debut of Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, WWE Hall Of Famer Jake Roberts (In his most interesting role in decades mind you), Lance Archer, Brodie Lee, An AEW World Title match featuring Jon Moxley, AEW favourite MJF returning, and a falls count anywhere main event.
> 
> Looking at that analysis AEW has arguably a top ten wrestler of all time in Jericho, a guy considered one of the best to never be in WWE in Omega, one of the greatest tag wrestlers of all time in Hardy, Cody who spent many years on the WWE main roster, a former World Champion in Hager, one of the greatest characters of all time in Roberts, Brodie Lee who is fresh off WWE TV, a former WWE Champion in Moxley, a big championship match and a falls count anywhere match which is always a draw.
> 
> In return WWE had former WWE Champion Finn Balor, Charlotte Flair and a guy who has made a handful of appearances on the main roster in Adam Cole. No speciality matches and certainly not an all out effort like you're trying to claim. Looking at that on paper AEW should've won by much much more.
> 
> 
> 4. You're only counting domestic viewership not international. NXT airs in more international markets so each week they would no doubt have more people watching week to week then AEW does internationally. That's not counting NXT's WWE Network viewers either.


tony khans podcast says they get paid based on the demo, so although chip chipperson has decided he only cares about total viewers, the people that matter care about the Demo.

and tnas viewership was at a time when tv ratings for wrestling were higher, and not during a pandemic where people are watching even less.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wacky wrestling draws - it’s ‘fake’/ might as well go over the top

i prefer it too

and people wonder why OC, Naka and Marko is over

flip side - Mox also draws


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Man, I had to cringe at this post. Sorry man.
> 
> Some analysis for you to consider:
> 
> 1. AEW did 732,000 viewers this week (I only care about totals not demographics) which is down from their initial of 1.4 million. AEW has lost almost 50% of the people that were initially willing to give it a go since October (Approximately 700,000 people). Meanwhile, in October we saw NXT get a rating of 891,000 people and is now 663,000 people meaning NXT has lost just over 200,000 people. One could make the argument that the drop in ratings week to week from over a million to 600-700 thousand very much proves the "tHe nOvElTy hAs WoRn OfF i ToLd YoU tHiS wOuLd HaPpEn" "geeks" correct.
> 
> 2. 5-6 years ago when TNA was finishing up it's Spike run and got dumped due to lack of ratings they were doing around what AEW does now ratings wise after losing the likes of Hogan, Flair etc. You are legitimately celebrating and high fiving over doing similar numbers that TNA fans were absolutely horrified with 5-6 years ago.
> 
> 3. A 70k win or loss means very little in terms of TV ratings and isn't even a significant win. Most TV execs would consider the brands equal. Also, lets take the following into account:
> 
> NXT: Yes, two title matches but how many nationally known WWE stars appeared on the show? I'm not much of a WWE guy (Despite being told I am regularly on here) so forgive me if I'm wrong but Adam Cole has only had a handful of matches on the main brand, Finn Balor popped up to cut a promo this past episode and I know he was or is a main roster guy and the only other big star they had on was Charlotte Flair. That's three wrestlers that you could class as "main roster talent" and only two that would really entice the WWE main roster to check out NXT.
> 
> Compare it to AEW:
> 
> Cody, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, the debut of Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, WWE Hall Of Famer Jake Roberts (In his most interesting role in decades mind you), Lance Archer, Brodie Lee, An AEW World Title match featuring Jon Moxley, AEW favourite MJF returning, and a falls count anywhere main event.
> 
> Looking at that analysis AEW has arguably a top ten wrestler of all time in Jericho, a guy considered one of the best to never be in WWE in Omega, one of the greatest tag wrestlers of all time in Hardy, Cody who spent many years on the WWE main roster, a former World Champion in Hager, one of the greatest characters of all time in Roberts, Brodie Lee who is fresh off WWE TV, a former WWE Champion in Moxley, a big championship match and a falls count anywhere match which is always a draw.
> 
> In return WWE had former WWE Champion Finn Balor, Charlotte Flair and a guy who has made a handful of appearances on the main roster in Adam Cole. No speciality matches and certainly not an all out effort like you're trying to claim. Looking at that on paper AEW should've won by much much more.
> 
> 
> 4. You're only counting domestic viewership not international. NXT airs in more international markets so each week they would no doubt have more people watching week to week then AEW does internationally. That's not counting NXT's WWE Network viewers either.


All TV ratings over the past decade have declined because of streaming. Bringing up old TNA ratings is like boasting about old record sales - not relevant to today


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wacky wrestling draws - it’s ‘fake’/ might as well go over the top
> 
> i prefer it too
> 
> and people wonder why OC, Naka and Marko is over
> 
> flip side - Mox also draws


people seem forget that wrestling is a blend of ALL genres.

Anyway, people who negatively respond to your comment:


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wacky wrestling draws - it’s ‘fake’/ might as well go over the top
> 
> i prefer it too
> 
> and people wonder why OC, Naka and Marko is over
> 
> flip side - Mox also draws


Wacky, over the top, anything can happen wrestling does draw, you're absolutely right. 

Where you're wrong is saying that Marko and Nakazawa are over and Mox draws. Marko getting murdered is why people watch, not because they like him. Stunt isn't even very social media popular. 30k Instagram followers, my hot friends who aren't on national TV every week have more. Nakazawa absolutely sucks. I get that some of you revel in the fact that the majoirty of people don't like them and it's bordering on trolling at the moment. I don't get how you guys can't admit they aren't the best option. Once an honest conversation can be had about them making the best decisions, I'll praise your opinions and move on. Unfortunately you guys can't admit anything negative is going on in AEW, to the point where you'll praise Nakazawa and Stunt.

Also Mox draws what? Fans? Money? Nah


----------



## Erik.

837k (AEW) vs 572k (NXT) for the main event is crazy. Nearly 300k difference. 

I assume that's because the NXT main event didn't start until quite late in the show and people were enjoying the match so much they didn't want to switch.

That along with AEW beating Raw in the demo for men 18-34 should be a pretty nice thing for AEW to hopefully build on. 

It was a good show. Some great things, some bad things. But they are hitting a bit of a groove here that they haven't had since that spell in February. 

Will be interesting to see next week's ratings following this.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Cult03 said:


> Wacky, over the top, anything can happen wrestling does draw, you're absolutely right.
> 
> Where you're wrong is saying that Marko and Nakazawa are over and Mox draws. Marko getting murdered is why people watch, not because they like him. Stunt isn't even very social media popular. 30k Instagram followers, my hot friends who aren't on national TV every week have more. Nakazawa absolutely sucks. I get that some of you revel in the fact that the majoirty of people don't like them and it's bordering on trolling at the moment. I don't get how you guys can't admit they aren't the best option. Once an honest conversation can be had about them making the best decisions, I'll praise your opinions and move on. Unfortunately you guys can't admit anything negative is going on in AEW, to the point where you'll praise Nakazawa and Stunt.
> 
> Also Mox draws what? Fans? Money? Nah


Marko and Nakazawa not on the show this week anyway, you talk like they main event every week....personally I find the velveteen dream as cringe as Nakazawa And he’s being pushed as NXT main eventer. He’s awful.


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> Marko and Nakazawa not on the show this week anyway, you talk like they main event every week....personally I find the velveteen dream as cringe as Nakazawa And he’s being pushed as NXT main eventer. He’s awful.


Nah Velveteen is alright. Great character work and solid on the microphone. 

One of few that I'd like to see in AEW from NXT.


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> Marko and Nakazawa not on the show this week anyway, you talk like they main event every week....personally I find the velveteen dream as cringe as Nakazawa And he’s being pushed as NXT main eventer. He’s awful.


And I didn't complain about them this week. I actually had a lot of good things to say. Others brought them up. Dream can be considered cringey to some people too, nobody is claiming he's a draw though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> Marko and Nakazawa not on the show this week anyway, you talk like they main event every week....personally I find the velveteen dream as cringe as Nakazawa And he’s being pushed as NXT main eventer. He’s awful.


They (Or guys like them) are on enough for it to be an issue though. For example, I saw them announce on TV that Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus would be on the show next week who are two guys I like but then I saw Marko Stunt would be with them and they'd be taking on the Best Friends (Only really like Trent) and it made me less keen on seeing Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.

Same deal with Brodie Lee Vs Christopher Daniels. I've been a Chris Daniels fan for 15 years now (As a matter of fact he's the first wrestler to sign an autograph for me) but when I saw that he'd be taking on Brodie Lee it was an "Oh no" reaction because of Brodie's stupid Mr. McMahon angle he's got going on.

If you look at the announced matches for next week the Matt Hardy tag, the Best Friends tag and Jericho/Pineapple Pete will have a large amount of comedy in it all. It's a Nakazawa/Stunt style match even though those guys aren't actually involved.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Those W


Erik. said:


> Nah Velveteen is alright. Great character work and solid on the microphone.
> 
> One of few that I'd like to see in AEW from NXT.


Yeah, me too, Dream, Riddle, & Kross are the only 3 I would really want in AEW. But all 3 are STARS!!!


----------



## rbl85

Comparing AEW with TNA of 5-6 years ago is stupid.

RAW was doing close to 5M at the same period in 2014.

You say that 5-6 years ago TNA was doing more or less the same ratings than AEW. in 2014 RAW was doing nearly 5 times the viewership than TNA, now RAW is doing 2 times the viewership of AEW. 
AEW is closer to RAW than TNA was.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> Comparing AEW with TNA of 5-6 years ago is stupid.
> 
> RAW was doing close to 5M at the same period in 2014.
> 
> You say that 5-6 years ago TNA was doing more or less the same ratings than AEW. in 2014 RAW was doing nearly 5 times the viewership than TNA, now RAW is doing 2 times the viewership of AEW.
> AEW is closer to RAW than TNA was.


Yeah, I provided those facts a few weeks back. 

I did also say that it shows you the state of pro wrestling though that AEW, a company running TV for 6 months is closer to Raw in ratings than TNA ever was or has been.


----------



## Purple Haze

The difference in the main event ratings doesn't surprise me, why would anyone watch a CAW defending his title against a much better wrestler when there is the best TV match of the year so far happening at the same moment.


----------



## bdon

Purple Haze said:


> The difference in the main event ratings doesn't surprise me, why would anyone watch a CAW defending his title against a much better wrestler when there is the best TV match of the year so far happening at the same moment.


That was not the best TV match of the year. The Pac/Omega Ironman match holds that honor.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

1.6 MILLION PEOPLE WATCHING ON INSTAGRAM


just went up to 1.7 million

@Chip Chipperson

bUt 6 YeArS aGo TNA

edit: 1.8 million
edit: 1.9million


----------



## DaSlacker

TNA never had to go head to head with another wrestling show until Bischoff and Hogan got in Dixie's ear. They had 5 years to build an audience and fan-base, unopposed and on a stronger night, in a era when streaming services were in their infancy. 

AEW has had to go head-to-head with a WWE show, which started a few weeks prior. Furthermore, it's the only critically acclaimed product from the opposition. 

Digging further, TNA were signing a string of names that were regulars on television when wrestling was attracting up to 10 million viewers: Sting, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Jeff Hardy, Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner, Christian, Dudley Boyz, Rikishi, Sean Waltman, Raven, New Age Outlaws. 

AEW's guys from that era are Chris Jericho, Matt Hardy and Dustin Rhodes. Their legitimately biggest act from when wrestling was attracting 4.5 million viewers is...Moxley. Hager was barely over in WWE; Cody and Brodie never made it beyond mid card back then. PAC came in when ratings really started to decline.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> people seem forget that wrestling is a blend of ALL genres.
> 
> Anyway, people who negatively respond to your comment:


i have not seen one negative comment

must‘ve ignored all of them


----------



## kingfrass44

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wacky wrestling draws - it’s ‘fake’/ might as well go over the top
> 
> i prefer it too
> 
> and people wonder why OC, Naka and Marko is over
> 
> flip side - Mox also draws


Stop, you are wrong



LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have not seen one negative comment
> 
> must‘ve ignored all of them


You do not like criticism 
you aew fan blind


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> They (Or guys like them) are on enough for it to be an issue though. For example, I saw them announce on TV that Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus would be on the show next week who are two guys I like but then I saw Marko Stunt would be with them and they'd be taking on the Best Friends (Only really like Trent) and it made me less keen on seeing Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.
> 
> Same deal with Brodie Lee Vs Christopher Daniels. I've been a Chris Daniels fan for 15 years now (As a matter of fact he's the first wrestler to sign an autograph for me) but when I saw that he'd be taking on Brodie Lee it was an "Oh no" reaction because of Brodie's stupid Mr. McMahon angle he's got going on.
> 
> If you look at the announced matches for next week the Matt Hardy tag, the Best Friends tag and Jericho/Pineapple Pete will have a large amount of comedy in it all. It's a Nakazawa/Stunt style match even though those guys aren't actually involved.


you have serious issues with Marko stunt.

as for comedy, yes i agree they do a little too much sometimes for my own linking,

however I am also aware that a lot of people like comedy in wrestling, instead of bitching about it I just accept that aspect of the show isn’t for me just like this is your life, the highest drawing segment in raw history wasnt.


----------



## Erik.

Danielallen1410 said:


> you have serious issues with Marko stunt.
> 
> as for comedy, yes i agree they do a little too much sometimes for my own linking,
> 
> however I am also aware that a lot of people like comedy in wrestling, instead of bitching about it I just accept that aspect of the show isn’t for me just like this is your life, the highest drawing segment in raw history wasnt.


Actually, Austin vs The Undertaker was the highest drawing segment in Raw history. A whopping 9.5 which was just under 11,000,000 viewers.

Which at the time was 1 in every 6 cable televisions in America watching that match.

But I agree with your point on the This is Your life segment. Awful.


----------



## Cult03

Can we just talk about how the highest rating stuff from the attitude era was actually at least slightly funny whereas AEW thinks winking at the camera and having Nakazawa throw his underwear at Omega, a tough man cutting a promo in front of toys, Marko Stunt flossing and Mox telling people to call their grandmother is "comedy". They are not the same.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Cult03 said:


> Can we just talk about how the highest rating stuff from the attitude era was actually at least slightly funny whereas AEW thinks winking at the camera and having Nakazawa throw his underwear at Omega, a tough man cutting a promo in front of toys, Marko Stunt flossing and Mox telling people to call their grandmother is "comedy". They are not the same.


I think you should listen to tony Khan on wee unrestricted, he talks alot about the challenges and limitations during the pandemic...... let’s see if Nakazawa and stunt are features of the show from here on in or whether they were included due to the limited roster, I suspect the latter but I’m sure the usual suspects will still be talking about the fact they appeared heavily In a couple of episodes.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Can we just talk about how the highest rating stuff from the attitude era was actually at least slightly funny whereas AEW thinks winking at the camera and having Nakazawa throw his underwear at Omega, a tough man cutting a promo in front of toys, Marko Stunt flossing and Mox telling people to call their grandmother is "comedy". They are not the same.


Stupid is stupid for me. I hated that garbage ass show. Lmao


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Stupid is stupid for me. I hated that garbage ass show. Lmao


We know, mate. It's over now, you never have to deal with the Attitude Era again. Let us look back on it lovingly remembering only the good parts though.



Danielallen1410 said:


> I think you should listen to tony Khan on wee unrestricted, he talks alot about the challenges and limitations during the pandemic...... let’s see if Nakazawa and stunt are features of the show from here on in or whether they were included due to the limited roster, I suspect the latter but I’m sure the usual suspects will still be talking about the fact they appeared heavily In a couple of episodes.


I've detailed all of the unnecessary things they absolutely did not need to do already. They could have had very similar shows, minus Stunt showing up again after being squashed by Archer, minus the Nakazawa oil spot and Omega wrestling a comedy match over the rights to the Best Friends name, minus Ortiz being a tough guy in front of plush toys etc. These things just weren't necessary and it's a problem AEW has with trying to let everyone get their shit in, both in ring and out. They need an adult to tell them some things aren't the best option.


----------



## The Wood

Why do people act like the pandemic means they have to do absolute shit?


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Why do people act like the pandemic means they have to do absolute shit?


Well they're not doing absolute shit….


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Can we just talk about how the highest rating stuff from the attitude era was actually at least slightly funny whereas AEW thinks winking at the camera and having Nakazawa throw his underwear at Omega, a tough man cutting a promo in front of toys, Marko Stunt flossing and Mox telling people to call their grandmother is "comedy". They are not the same.


Yeah, it seems like a lot of the guys here just compare bad comedy with good comedy in wrestling and think that's all good.

Nobody here is saying all comedy in wrestling sucks just the wink wink nudge nudge business exposing stuff.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Stupid is stupid for me. I hated that garbage ass show. Lmao


?


----------



## The Wood

What is the point of wrestling if it winks at the audience? Can anyone actually offer a succinct point on that? The best I can come up with for the other side is "entertainment." But why would you find that entertaining? Wouldn't you find something that sets out what it tries to do more entertaining? 

Why should anyone care who the AEW World Champion is when it's clearly fake and doesn't even try to sell you on the drama of it being a simulated sport? Why does _anything_ matter?


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Why do people act like the pandemic means they have to do absolute shit?


no one said that.



The Wood said:


> What is the point of wrestling if it winks at the audience? Can anyone actually offer a succinct point on that? The best I can come up with for the other side is "entertainment." But why would you find that entertaining? Wouldn't you find something that sets out what it tries to do more entertaining?
> 
> Why should anyone care who the AEW World Champion is when it's clearly fake and doesn't even try to sell you on the drama of it being a simulated sport? Why does _anything_ matter?


well as usual that’s you using your own opinion and thinking that anyone that differs is wrong.

i am more your way of thinking, I don’t like too much stupidity and I like realism , it just doesn’t bother me to the extent it does you and I can appreciate others may like it, orange Cassidy for example does nothing for me but he’s clearly popular with a lot of people.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> What is the point of wrestling if it winks at the audience? Can anyone actually offer a succinct point on that? The best I can come up with for the other side is "entertainment." But why would you find that entertaining? Wouldn't you find something that sets out what it tries to do more entertaining?
> 
> Why should anyone care who the AEW World Champion is when it's clearly fake and doesn't even try to sell you on the drama of it being a simulated sport? Why does _anything_ matter?


They don't know why. I've tried many times to ask them why they've enjoyed certain things .

Q. Why is Pineapple Pete Vs Jericho funny or good for business?

A. Because it will be fun.

Q. Can someone explain Matt Hardy and what is going on with this character?

A. Wrestling is fake you nerd. Get over it.

Q. Why is The Bubbly Bunch skit entertaining?

A. BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE US LAUGH DURING A PANDEMIC!

Plenty of times where you directly ask someone why they enjoyed the Bubbly Bunch skits or why Inner Circle have gone from a comedic characters to thugs in a one week period and just receive no response either because nobody knows how to defend it or how to explain it including the people writing the show. They will just attack the poster personally or label them a "WWE fan boy"

It's blind support for AEW most of the time because they think if they are critical or go against Cody, Kenny and The Young Bucks (Four men who somehow are treated like gods of wrestling) that it makes them stupid or a WWE fan boy. It reminds me of how people look back at ECW and are very reluctant to point out it's flaws because WWE, Heyman and other well respected individuals talk about how amazing it was and they don't want to appear unknowledgeable by talking badly about ECW. I remember when I first joined the IWC back in 2005 it was very much the same with ROH also nobody would dare say a negative thing about ROH because they didn't want to be looked at badly.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> well as usual that’s you using your own opinion and thinking that anyone that differs is wrong.
> 
> i am more your way of thinking, I don’t like too much stupidity and I like realism , it just doesn’t bother me to the extent it does you and I can appreciate others may like it, orange Cassidy for example does nothing for me but he’s clearly popular with a lot of people.


But my argument is that Orange Cassidy chases away more people than he brings in. That's the problem with stupidity. When you are operating at a net loss, it is bad for business. That is what AEW fans don't get about this stuff that they think is "fine," because they are hardcore and going to watch anyway. They don't see the picture outside their own viewpoint, ironically.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> But my argument is that Orange Cassidy chases away more people than he brings in. That's the problem with stupidity. When you are operating at a net loss, it is bad for business. That is what AEW fans don't get about this stuff that they think is "fine," because they are hardcore and going to watch anyway. They don't see the picture outside their own viewpoint, ironically.


Does he though?


----------



## rbl85

You guys thinks fans were asking those question 20 years ago ? XD


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Does he though?


Yes, he does. People don't like their intelligence being insulted, it turns out. 



rbl85 said:


> You guys thinks fans were asking those question 20 years ago ? XD


No, because shit made more sense and didn't slap you in the face and mock you for watching it.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Yes, he does. People don't like their intelligence being insulted, it turns out.
> 
> 
> 
> No, because shit made more sense and didn't slap you in the face and mock you for watching it.


do you have any evidence that orange Cassidy turns viewers off or is that just your opinion?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> do you have any evidence that orange Cassidy turns viewers off or is that just your opinion?


We get it, you're trying desperately to defend everything AEW does.

There is no solid evidence except ratings going up and down (Which really doesn't show how over someone is or isn't) but I can tell you I'm a follower of the independent scene here in Australia and Orange Cassidy came in for a show last year and more than a few people were disappointed that one of the local indies was using Orange Cassidy as a "big international guest" when they were expecting someone of a much higher calibre. This indy has the audience that would appreciate Orange Cassidy also (Women wrestling men, dumb comedy spots, very small guys chokeslamming giants etc) but they just weren't that pumped up for him.

Also, from a TV viewing perspective it's kind of obvious that he'd turn people away. He's an average looking guy who puts his hands in his pockets for no reason. Who do you think watches that and says "Okay, this has got me really excited to see what this guy does next week!"?


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> ?


90% of WWE television during the Attitude Era.


----------



## DaSlacker

I'm not sure it's a good thing comparing AEW to Attitude Era. Every wrestling company that tried to emulate WWE's brand of sports entertainment failed miserably.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> We get it, you're trying desperately to defend everything AEW does.
> 
> There is no solid evidence except ratings going up and down (Which really doesn't show how over someone is or isn't) but I can tell you I'm a follower of the independent scene here in Australia and Orange Cassidy came in for a show last year and more than a few people were disappointed that one of the local indies was using Orange Cassidy as a "big international guest" when they were expecting someone of a much higher calibre. This indy has the audience that would appreciate Orange Cassidy also (Women wrestling men, dumb comedy spots, very small guys chokeslamming giants etc) but they just weren't that pumped up for him.
> 
> Also, from a TV viewing perspective it's kind of obvious that he'd turn people away. He's an average looking guy who puts his hands in his pockets for no reason. Who do you think watches that and says "Okay, this has got me really excited to see what this guy does next week!"?


Yet his last match got nearly 800K viewers and it gained viewers during all the match….


----------



## bdon

@Chip Chipperson 

1. Pineapple Pete vs Jericho is only “funny”, because it is a wink at the camera showing Jericho took a no-name jobber and made his career in a single week by mocking his look.

2. Matt Hardy teleporting pissed me off to no end. Matt Hardy changing clothes and personas, despite how stupid and sports entertainment-y it is, IS funny and logical FOR ME. It reminds me Mick Foley taking too many shots to the dome that he had developed multiple personalities. And I fucking hate Broken Brilliance stuff. The way they played it this past week was good. In my eyes anyways.

3. The Bubbly Bunch, while not what I would call humor, is “funny” for the very reason you and I don’t like it. It is sometimes funny to see the softer, goofier side of the big bad villains. This is not the 80s. Villains have layers to their personalities and don’t have to always be pricks.

I don’t like it, but I’m not narcissistic enough to think only what I perceive to be “funny” is the only allowed form of humor. If I asked everyone I seen on a street to watch Attitude Era Austin/McMahon segments, they would be laughing. I don’t find it funny, other than how stupidly illogical it is.


I have a question for you, @The Wood .

If you know the key to drawing power, then please, explain why you don’t have a gig booking shows by now? Because I’m sure you could make a lot of goddamn money explaining what secret ingredient that has been missing from wrestling for the last 2 decades as ratings slowly fell.

And don’t say it is due to lack of connections, because I’m going to respond by asking why your messiah, Cornette, hasn’t put the pieces together for this miraculous show that brings back the casuals.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> 90% of WWE television during the Attitude Era.


Yep if you watch an entire show, 90% suck.


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> I'm not sure it's a good thing comparing AEW to Attitude Era. Every wrestling company that tried to emulate WWE's brand of sports entertainment failed miserably.


Who is comparing it? I was making a point that I hated the Attutude Era, yet most enjoyed it.



rbl85 said:


> Yep if you watch an entire show, 90% suck.


That is you saying it in hindsight. I was a 14 year old kid in ‘98 feeling attacked and mocked by that show. It was clear as day to me that Vince was giving the lowest hanging fruit to all of the simpletons of this goddamn world who had never looked our way (the wrestling community as a whole). Yet no fucking body wanted to listen to me or hear me out.

Quickest way to ratings is entertainment that appeases the masses. The masses are fickle and will leave. I knew this in ‘98 while everyone was walking around throwing up middle fingers and raising their eyebrows and all of that. “Those people will leave and move onto the next shiny object.”

And when those people move on, you have ruined wrestling for your diehards who know what is genuinely “good”.

I am not sure finding those missing 10 million fans from the Monday Night Wars will result in a good show, even if ratings are better.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> do you have any evidence that orange Cassidy turns viewers off or is that just your opinion?


AEW is the least most popular wrestling promotion that has ever existed on a national/international level ever. That's my evidence. There's not really any disputing that. You can't prove a negative, but there are negative fans that are interested in the style of wrestling AEW puts on. It's well known that silly stuff turns people off. We've seen the interest in wrestling cap itself over the years by blowing up its own logic. They are fans that never came back. 

You can be in denial about it all you want, but it's widely accepted that the harder you make it for someone to suspend their disbelief, the less likely they are to support your product. Wrestling functions on the ability to suspend your disbelief. That's why it's called a "work." This stuff just makes it harder for the fans to watch and a promotion to gain traction. That's not my opinion. That's reason. 



rbl85 said:


> Yet his last match got nearly 800K viewers and it gained viewers during all the match….


A few things on this: 

1. Those ratings are dogshit for wrestling. Don't give me "times have changed" and all that. Raw and SmackDown still (usually) sit about 2 million viewers. There is a horny audience out there. They are just going completely unfucked by AEW. 

2. If Orange Cassidy is your highest rated segment, what does that say about your other segments? 

3. Sometimes people watch things and think "Look at this shit! Holy fuck is wrestling bad!" I've seen people do it. Viewership is not a measure of quality. If you're going to slip and fall on your ass, would you rather it happen in private or at your wedding? The goal should be to do good shit that gets seen by a lot of people. The lots of people is important because it means you are going to get paid more for advertising, which means you can pay stars like stars and can keep yourself viable and generating good content. The good content is important to make sure more than 800,000 fucking people watch. 



bdon said:


> I have a question for you, @The Wood .
> 
> If you know the key to drawing power, then please, explain why you don’t have a gig booking shows by now? Because I’m sure you could make a lot of goddamn money explaining what secret ingredient that has been missing from wrestling for the last 2 decades as ratings slowly fell.
> 
> And don’t say it is due to lack of connections, because I’m going to respond by asking why your messiah, Cornette, hasn’t put the pieces together for this miraculous show that brings back the casuals.


How do you know I haven't booked shows? Or aren't booking them now?

Cornette's not my messiah. Definitely a genius and on-point about 99.9% of things he says though. There are plenty of reasons that casuals won't come back to wrestling: 

1. It sucks. 

2. It insults their intelligence. 

3. "You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube," as Cornette likes to say. 

A lot of people who would have sincerely given a shit about pro-wrestling and would be a driving audience to getting it mainstream acceptance again have had their hearts broken by it. Whether that be when TBS bought Jim Crockett Promotions and announced they're "changing the scripts," or when Goldberg got beaten, or when Austin shoot Vince's hand. Or maybe it was when Triple H spent a decade as World Champ one year. 

And when you've got silliness all around you, it's hard to be taken seriously. That's why the silly stuff is bad for wrestling _as a whole._ Jacob Fatu can be the most impressive and explosive fucking bad-ass in wrestling, and I love him for it, but MLW is going to have a harder time getting noticed while AEW is out there letting Matt Hardy teleport and Marko Stunt floss. You need something that can knock it out of its place to properly compete. That is why my dream is that The Rock starts his own wrestling promotion and runs against Vince properly. It'd be better for wrestling than having a choice between bad comedy and bad comedy. 

If Tony Khan had started a promotion with Jim Cornette and Jim Ross at the helm. Where Arn Anderson wasn't just a token figure. If they had managed to get Randy Orton to jump and CM Punk to sign. If they had ticked all those boxes, I guarantee you it would be doing better than 1 million people. I know it in my bones, and frankly, so does everyone else. They just don't want to admit it. But you can't just snap your fingers and make a giant promotion appear. That's what a promotion allows you to do -- promote. 

And Cornette was consulted by Tony Khan when starting out. Cornette gave him his advice but told him he didn't want to be involved because of who is going to be at the top, because he knows they won't be able to take it seriously. And he was right. And you can see almost everything Cornette has said actually play out. The stuff Cornette has absolutely HATED, AEW has actually apologized for. And you can tell the veterans think it's shit. You hear it in JR's commentary and Arn Anderson's excuses for comedy wrestling. They basically have both admitted it. But, for whatever reason -- maybe it's feeling his hands forced by the audience that is there from the start -- Tony Khan has felt like he had to go down the PWG path. It's what's keeping New Japan from working with them, it's what kept CM Punk and Randy Orton away, it's what's keeping viewers away. And it's why we won't get a fucking awesome Jim Cornette promo sponsoring The Revolt on AEW TV, which you and I both know would be the best thing on that show thus far in 2020.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> @Chip Chipperson
> 
> 1. Pineapple Pete vs Jericho is only “funny”, because it is a wink at the camera showing Jericho took a no-name jobber and made his career in a single week by mocking his look.
> 
> 2. Matt Hardy teleporting pissed me off to no end. Matt Hardy changing clothes and personas, despite how stupid and sports entertainment-y it is, IS funny and logical FOR ME. It reminds me Mick Foley taking too many shots to the dome that he had developed multiple personalities. And I fucking hate Broken Brilliance stuff. The way they played it this past week was good. In my eyes anyways.
> 
> 3. The Bubbly Bunch, while not what I would call humor, is “funny” for the very reason you and I don’t like it. It is sometimes funny to see the softer, goofier side of the big bad villains. This is not the 80s. Villains have layers to their personalities and don’t have to always be pricks.
> 
> I don’t like it, but I’m not narcissistic enough to think only what I perceive to be “funny” is the only allowed form of humor. If I asked everyone I seen on a street to watch Attitude Era Austin/McMahon segments, they would be laughing. I don’t find it funny, other than how stupidly illogical it is.
> 
> 
> I have a question for you, @The Wood .
> 
> If you know the key to drawing power, then please, explain why you don’t have a gig booking shows by now? Because I’m sure you could make a lot of goddamn money explaining what secret ingredient that has been missing from wrestling for the last 2 decades as ratings slowly fell.
> 
> And don’t say it is due to lack of connections, because I’m going to respond by asking why your messiah, Cornette, hasn’t put the pieces together for this miraculous show that brings back the casuals.


1. It's not really funny though and it's still a waste of time. Jericho is legit having a sub plot with an independent wrestling jobber. Not funny.

2. Sure, Matt Hardy is clearly ripping off the three faces of Foley I got that vibe also but Foley never changed costumes or personas mid match (Unless you count the rumble but he went backstage and came back each time). Can you imagine if during those epic Cactus Jack/Triple H matches where Cactus was desperately trying to win the WWF Title and fighting for his life if he just went under the ring and came out as Mankind? He didn't have costumes hidden around the backstage area in case he needed to change either not to mention the fact that Matt Hardy gains super powers simply by changing his clothes is a pretty massive stretch also.

3. You can show the softer side or different personalities without insulting the audience though. Why couldn't Jericho and Guevara be the comedic relief whilst the other 3 don't want to play ball? Jericho and Guevara being the goofs and trying to convince the others to play along would've been interesting TV (If done correctly). Instead the big thugs that just kicked the ass of your big new signing (Hardy) and one of your very best wrestlers (Omega) were the same thugs who just last week were chilling in their homes next to stuffed animals.

I'd like to touch on the question you asked The Wood also.

How do we know he or anyone else doesn't have a job in wrestling? I'm sure there are at least a few wrestlers on this forum who have been on TV but are undercover and just want to talk as fans about the product without the dirt sheets reporting on it. I'd say there is probably many independent promoters and independent wrestlers who post here also without telling anyone because they want to just talk as a fan. I know another forum that used to have Lou Thesz and a number of other name wrestlers semi regularly make posts so I'm sure there are a few on here.

Wrestling isn't hard to figure out. It only has 3 main features that need to be firing to be successful. I'll outline them below:

1. Believability - If you look at the successful eras in wrestling (Territory days, WCW's success, ECW, WWF's success etc) it all came down to people believing what was going on or the stories being so good that it was natural to suspend disbelief. Majority of the wrestlers were big dudes compared to the average human being (Even guys like X-Pac who were considered small would dwarf most guys getting around today) and they came across as cool guys to hang out with. Believable characters + believable matches + believable stories = $$$

2. Consistency - You need to be consistent in everything you do. For example you can't have a great episode one week and then follow up with an average one. You should be aiming to hit a homerun every single week on TV and then go and hit three on your PPV. Your stories need to be consistent as well none of this flip flopping your characters every week or forgetting vital character traits when convenient like we see in AEW and probably WWE also.

3. Star Power - Similar to professional sporting franchises and pretty much every program on TV you want people who are known to be on your show. Whether it's an independent using an ageing former WWE star on their TV show or a company like AEW that has a heap of stars every company needs star power.

So going off these three points most companies around today have 1 (Star power, but only within wrestling). Neither WWE nor AEW are believable or consistent week to week which is why WWE has ratings falling and AEW is stuck at under TNA death door numbers.

In regards to Cornette he has worked on the creative team for almost every major company in the past 30 years (AEW I believe is the only one who he hasn't). He's not the guy I'd be using as an example of not knowing what draws.


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> well as usual that’s you using your own opinion and thinking that anyone that differs is wrong.
> 
> i am more your way of thinking, I don’t like too much stupidity and I like realism , it just doesn’t bother me to the extent it does you and I can appreciate others may like it, orange Cassidy for example does nothing for me but he’s clearly popular with a lot of people.


There is a 100% chance that you are Garty haha


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> Who is comparing it? I was making a point that I hated the Attutude Era, yet most enjoyed it.


Sorry, it wasn't directed at you. I was thinking out loud how fans hold the Attitude Era as a kind of barometer for the industry as a whole now. Whereas it was purely a product of Vince McMahon and his creative team.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wacky wrestling draws - it’s ‘fake’/ might as well go over the top
> 
> i prefer it too
> 
> and people wonder why OC, Naka and Marko is over
> 
> flip side - Mox also draws


Well, this is bullshit.

The wackier wrestling has got, the less popular it has become. Wrestling is at an all time low which coincides with wackiness being at an all time high.


----------



## The Wood

.christopher. said:


> Well, this is bullshit.
> 
> The wackier wrestling has got, the less popular it has become. Wrestling is at an all time low which coincides with wackiness being at an all time high.


It's that simple.


----------



## bdon

Neither of you addressed the question why you aren’t out there changing the world and bring mainstream acceptance back to the industry.

Solve that two decades long mystery, and I’ll start to buy that your views are not just personal preference but hard facts.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Neither of you addressed the question why you aren’t out there changing the world and bring mainstream acceptance back to the industry.
> 
> Solve that two decades long mystery, and I’ll start to buy that your views are not just personal preference but hard facts.


Dad didn't give me millions of dollars and let me run a few companies


----------



## bdon

You know I agree with you on most of this stuff, fellas. I just don’t buy that the mainstream is coming back, and after what I witnessed having “mainstream appeal” meant to the product, I’m not sure I want that.

I want a serious product, and you’d be hard pressed to make me believe that the wrestling we want would have crossover appeal without the crash tv stupid shit. The general population is a bunch of fucking morons that found Mae Young giving birth to a hand to be good tv.



Cult03 said:


> Dad didn't give me millions of dollars and let me run a few companies


I already addressed this. Cornette has the connections to start a company. As do many others.

Yet, it’s still two decades of a slowly dying industry.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Neither of you addressed the question why you aren’t out there changing the world and bring mainstream acceptance back to the industry.
> 
> Solve that two decades long mystery, and I’ll start to buy that your views are not just personal preference but hard facts.


So you think every critic needs to have won a Grammy/Emmy/Oscar or produced successful content in their field of interest? I don't agree with the "well, what have you done?" angle at all. Buuuuut, I've done crazy stuff on dares before, so keep insisting on it and I might just save wrestling on my off-day. ;-) 



bdon said:


> You know I agree with you on most of this stuff, fellas. I just don’t buy that the mainstream is coming back, and after what I witnessed having “mainstream appeal” meant to the product, I’m not sure I want that.
> 
> I want a serious product, and you’d be hard pressed to make me believe that the wrestling we want would have crossover appeal without the crash tv stupid shit. The general population is a bunch of fucking morons that found Mae Young giving birth to a hand to be good tv.


I'm not sure I agree that people thought Mae Young giving birth to a hand was good. And you could take that away and still have a mainstream product. Something that appeals to the same people, anyway. Mae Young and the hand was not crucial to the WWF's success. 

That being said -- yes, most people are morons. I'm not even sure I want a "mainstream" product, per se. I just think it can do better if it stops shooting itself in the foot and getting its sycophants to defend it for doing so.


----------



## bdon

What I am saying isn’t that I disagree with how wrestling _should_ be. I am merely willing to accept that nothing has worked for two decades. Vince being the greedy bastard that he is, is basically at a point of not caring, because they have tried so much shit to bring back the fans yet none of it works.

I’d love to share your optimism, fellas. I just don’t see it. And if what I believe is true, then we’re only arguing about preferences.

Does that make sense?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I already addressed this. Cornette has the connections to start a company. As do many others.
> 
> Yet, it’s still two decades of a slowly dying industry.


He saved Ring of Honor. You can't book to those fans, because they are the most hardcore of the hardcore and want to dictate their own shows. And he was toiling away in TNA too, doing his best alongside Dutch Mantel and others to counteract some of the limiting ideas they tried there. Just like AEW is limiting themselves now.

AEW was the best shot, because it was an infusion of money from a billionaire who had the chance to show people that wrestling could work. The live TV rights fees made that inviting. They barely made a splash. Sorry, but they didn't. I personally think that's because they're not as good as fans make them out to be. I still believe that money + a good product can bring in the stars and bring in the eyeballs. To what extent? I'm not sure. Probably not as big as WWE, if we're being honest, but it wouldn't SHOCK me if someone did outdraw them. Good shit on a good budget? That's the sort of blockbuster hit that could knock Vince out. 

If it had been a different billionaire's son who was able to learn from history -- had read things like The Death of WCW -- and also knew not only who to talk to, but who to listen to -- AEW could be a lot bigger and a lot better than it is.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> So you think every critic needs to have won a Grammy/Emmy/Oscar or produced successful content in their field of interest? I don't agree with the "well, what have you done?" angle at all. Buuuuut, I've done crazy stuff on dares before, so keep insisting on it and I might just save wrestling on my off-day. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I agree that people thought Mae Young giving birth to a hand was good. And you could take that away and still have a mainstream product. Something that appeals to the same people, anyway. Mae Young and the hand was not crucial to the WWF's success.
> 
> That being said -- yes, most people are morons. *I'm not even sure I want a "mainstream" product, per se. I just think it can do better if it stops shooting itself in the foot and getting its sycophants to defend it for doing so.*


Now we’re getting somewhere, man. Here is where you and I agree, and I like to believe that a lot of people might be willing to find some common ground with this general theme.

We want the same thing. We just seem to differ on what kind of results our wants will have. You believe people are dying to come back to wrestling, and I believe Vince has succeeded in his mission to kill any hope for any other promotion to make it in this industry.

What he didn’t account for was what that would mean for his company’s long-term future.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I already addressed this. Cornette has the connections to start a company. As do many others.
> 
> Yet, it’s still two decades of a slowly dying industry.


Cornette isn't interested anymore. He hates travelling, makes well over six figures just off podcasting and merchandise (He sells so much merch that he recently had to temporarily close his online shop because of so many orders) and is nearing sixty. He does still do conventions and the occasional signing at an indy show but he's mentioned on his podcast that he isn't appearing for under 2000-2500 dollars because it isn't worth it for him to go for less.

I would enjoy seeing him being given the head booker spot at an independent that is local to him that had some form of TV (Even if just 30 minutes a week). I think he would go for that if they could compensate him fairly but any big dreams of Cornette trying to go national with some buddies is just going to remain a dream I'm afraid.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette isn't interested anymore. He hates travelling, makes well over six figures just off podcasting and merchandise (He sells so much merch that he recently had to temporarily close his online shop because of so many orders) and is nearing sixty. He does still do conventions and the occasional signing at an indy show but he's mentioned on his podcast that he isn't appearing for under 2000-2500 dollars because it isn't worth it for him to go for less.
> 
> I would enjoy seeing him being given the head booker spot at an independent that is local to him that had some form of TV (Even if just 30 minutes a week). I think he would go for that if they could compensate him fairly but any big dreams of Cornette trying to go national with some buddies is just going to remain a dream I'm afraid.


He’s been doing podcasts and out of wrestling for 2 decades? Crazy.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> What I am saying isn’t that I disagree with how wrestling _should_ be. I am merely willing to accept that nothing has worked for two decades. Vince being the greedy bastard that he is, is basically at a point of not caring, because they have tried so much shit to bring back the fans yet none of it works.
> 
> I’d love to share your optimism, fellas. I just don’t see it. And if what I believe is true, then we’re only arguing about preferences.
> 
> Does that make sense?


What you're saying makes sense, but there hasn't been anything, haha. I mean, are we really going to count TNA? Russo-booked wrestling does not count as an alternative to anything. ROH? They were too small for a decade before they got bought to be a small operation by Sinclair. The NWA? It for all intents and purposes died. MLW is trying now, but it's in the same boat as ROH. Too small. If there was a major cash flow injection and those travelling fans saw something in going along to their shows as they propped themselves up? It could happen. It would be just as easy to start your own company though. 

I'm hoping that when live events resume, some billionaire sees the value in having a self-sufficient wrestling product that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in TV rights fees a year. You just need to convince a Mark Cuban. Or a Seven Bucks Productions. Or something that can get the start-up money to poach some of the amazing talent that AEW, for whatever reason, has left on the table. You get them involved, you can probably work out something with ViacomCBS where you get paid $100 million a year for two hours of content each week. Fuck it, get The Rock involved and you've got that before you even get to TV.

That's what I'm holding onto as a wrestling fan.



bdon said:


> He’s been doing podcasts and out of wrestling for 2 decades? Crazy.


He's been either in wrestling or doing the podcasts for two decades, yes. He was employed by the WWF when WCW went out of business and was in OVW until 2005. Then he was in TNA, then ROH. It's also an entirely different beast now than it was then.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> He's been either in wrestling or doing the podcasts for two decades, yes. He was employed by the WWF when WCW went out of business and was in OVW until 2005. Then he was in TNA, then ROH. It's also an entirely different beast now than it was then.


I only hear excuses. Isn’t that what we say when the AEW sycophants try to explain away the ratings being less than stellar? That street runs two ways.

I love your optimism on a Rock-backed promotion, but I imagine it would see a lot of AEW’s fate. Large initial numbers, then the numbers would die off the moment the shine of being new had wore off.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> He’s been doing podcasts and out of wrestling for 2 decades? Crazy.


In the early 2000's he produced some of the top talent from the last era of WWE. Batista, Cena, Orton, CM Punk and a heap of others who got the call up to go to WWE. He also helped make OVW incredibly profitable.

He then went to TNA where he was just a contributor to their writing team. No real power but the era he was involved in is generally highly praised by TNA fans so if you want to give him credit for that feel free.

He went to ROH and made it attractive enough that Sinclair Broadcasting wanted to buy it. This is what I assume Wood is talking about when he says Cornette saved ROH.

Since then he has made indy appearances but never really got involved creatively except for the first 8 episodes or whatever it was of the NWA show which was loved as well...

The dude has a really good track record. Not saying a national company ran solely by him would be bigger than AEW or anything like that because who really knows but if I was the executive producer in charge of AEW initially and Khan said "Sign who you want" my first signing would've been Cornette. With Cornette you have a historian, colour commentator, talent producer and creative guy all in one. Not many guys can wear all of those hats let alone do it to the level Cornette can.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I only hear excuses. Isn’t that what we say when the AEW sycophants try to explain away the ratings being less than stellar? That street runs two ways.
> 
> I love your optimism on a Rock-backed promotion, but I imagine it would see a lot of AEW’s fate. Large initial numbers, then the numbers would die off the moment the shine of being new had wore off.


Wasn't it AEW that promised to make things better? Why are we passing the buck now that we've realised they probably don't have it in them?


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't it AEW that promised to make things better? Why are we passing the buck now that we've realised they probably don't have it in them?


What were they supposed to say? “Hey, we have no clue how to fix the wrestling industry, watch us or don’t. We really don’t care just like everyone else!!!”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> What were they supposed to say? “Hey, we have no clue how to fix the wrestling industry, watch us or don’t. We really don’t care just like everyone else!!!”


You make promises you can achieve. If you can't change the wrestling business don't promise to. Promote what you actually are planning to be.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> You make promises you can achieve. If you can't change the wrestling business don't promise to. Promote what you actually are planning to be.


Since when have businesses looking to make money told the truth? Come on, man. And I’m sure they thought they were going to change the world. Just like you 3 think that the mainstream can become wrestling fans again.

It’s ok. They promoted themselves as being this thing that would change the world, this thing that would be sports-based, etc. You got worked. It’s ok. 

You three are comical in how far you sink your fucking feet into the dirt. I am fully in agreement with you on what is good pro wrestling, and you’re getting offended that I am calling you out for not having an answer as to why NOBODY has been able to correct the wrestling industry for two fucking decades. That is not me taking potshots at you. It is me asking for some fucking perspective beyond your own preference.

WCW was a better show when Vince used trash shoes and crash TV to steal the ratings back. I knew then what was happening was not organic, nor was it any longer “wrestling”. So, I had to learn to fucking accept that what I believed wrestling to be was no longer cool.

How many more years are y’all going to hold out hope that what we believe to be “good“ will work at bringing back the mainstream audiences?

I mean, at some point, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has a goddamn yellow beak...I am going to call it a duck.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Since when have businesses looking to make money told the truth? Come on, man. And I’m sure they thought they were going to change the world. Just like you 3 think that the mainstream can become wrestling fans again.
> 
> It’s ok. They promoted themselves as being this thing that would change the world, this thing that would be sports-based, etc. You got worked. It’s ok.
> 
> You three are comical in how far you sink your fucking feet into the dirt. I am fully in agreement with you on what is good pro wrestling, and you’re getting offended that I am calling you out for not having an answer as to why NOBODY has been able to correct the wrestling industry for two fucking decades. That is not me taking potshots at you. It is me asking for some fucking perspective beyond your own preference.
> 
> WCW was a better show when Vince used trash shoes and crash TV to steal the ratings back. I knew then what was happening was not organic, nor was it any longer “wrestling”. So, I had to learn to fucking accept that what I believed wrestling to be was no longer cool.
> 
> How many more years are y’all going to hold out hope that what we believe to be “good“ will work at bringing back the mainstream audiences?
> 
> I mean, at some point, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has a goddamn yellow beak...I am going to call it a duck.


I only hear excuses.

Also, The Bucks are allergic to trying to work people. I won’t accuse them of honesty, but workers working doesn’t really apply to them.

I think the Cornette thing has been very thoroughly explained. He’s gone on record before as saying why he thinks it is dead. Back before giant rights fees, he was in the trenches. He was offered a spot with AEW but knew it wasn’t a good fit. There isn’t some big mystery there.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I only hear excuses.
> 
> Also, The Bucks are allergic to trying to work people. I won’t accuse them of honesty, but workers working doesn’t really apply to them.
> 
> I think the Cornette thing has been very thoroughly explained. He’s gone on record before as saying why he thinks it is dead. Back before giant rights fees, he was in the trenches. He was offered a spot with AEW but knew it wasn’t a good fit. There isn’t some big mystery there.


Yes. That is an excuse, and the result is a product that isn’t sports-based, that isn’t changing the world and making wrestling mainstream. Unlike you, I can admit these things.

Wrestling is dead. You know it in your heart of hearts, but you keep harping on AEW cause you have to blame _someone_ for the sport you love now clicking with fans anymore. 

The sooner you accept that AEW isn’t the culprit for the dying medium, the better you’ll be. Two decades. Everything has been tried. Everything has failed. The shit died the minute Vince cut Russo loose and jumped the shark like every mainstream sitcom. Only thing those two pricks the Vince’s didn’t do was have the typical 90s sitcom shark jumping scene where someone has a baby in an elevator.

Unless we count the goddamn hand.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Yes. That is an excuse, and the result is a product that isn’t sports-based, that isn’t changing the world and making wrestling mainstream. Unlike you, I can admit these things.
> 
> Wrestling is dead. You know it in your heart of hearts, but you keep harping on AEW cause you have to blame _someone_ for the sport you love now clicking with fans anymore.
> 
> The sooner you accept that AEW isn’t the culprit for the dying medium, the better you’ll be. Two decades. Everything has been tried. Everything has failed. The shit died the minute Vince cut Russo loose and jumped the shark like every mainstream sitcom. Only thing those two pricks the Vince’s didn’t do was have the typical 90s sitcom shark jumping scene where someone has a baby in an elevator.
> 
> Unless we count the goddamn hand.


Well, that kind of sounds like it could have been written by me. Nothing good has been tried in the past 20 years. TNA doesn't really count, because it's TNA and had Russo largely involved in creative. ROH was too small. I blame AEW for taking this incredibly fortunate opportunity and not taking it half-way seriously. I don't think wrestling being a hole is any excuse to dig further downwards.


----------



## bdon

NXT takes itself super serious, no?

Then why is it the worst in terms of ratings of the nationally promotions, man? That’s all I’m saying. You have the serious product, and it isn’t catching on. And don’t blame WWE, because “if it is good, people will watch. They choose not to.” Right?

We are not in disagreement of what we want to see, @The Wood . We, for the most part, agree on the execution. Yes, they should still give us the best show they can.

Doing so will not likely result in bringing back mainstream appeal to make you feel like less of a nerd for being a fan of wrestling.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Yes. That is an excuse, and the result is a product that isn’t sports-based, that isn’t changing the world and making wrestling mainstream. Unlike you, I can admit these things.
> 
> Wrestling is dead. You know it in your heart of hearts, but you keep harping on AEW cause you have to blame _someone_ for the sport you love now clicking with fans anymore.
> 
> The sooner you accept that AEW isn’t the culprit for the dying medium, the better you’ll be. Two decades. Everything has been tried. Everything has failed. The shit died the minute Vince cut Russo loose and jumped the shark like every mainstream sitcom. Only thing those two pricks the Vince’s didn’t do was have the typical 90s sitcom shark jumping scene where someone has a baby in an elevator.
> 
> Unless we count the goddamn hand.


I don't care for it being mainstream, I've given ideas for wrestling to become bigger but have no interest in attempting to sell wrestling to people who don't like it. Doesn't mean it can't be better or entertain me specifically. Wrestling isn't dead at all though, there's more talent out there than ever before, there's more companies as well. Just because you and a bunch of AEW super fans have given up on wrestling actually being good doesn't mean we should all give up.



bdon said:


> NXT takes itself super serious, no?
> 
> Then why is it the worst in terms of ratings of the nationally promotions, man? That’s all I’m saying. You have the serious product, and it isn’t catching on. And don’t blame WWE, because “if it is good, people will watch. They choose not to.” Right?


Because ratings don't actually tell you what is a good show and what isn't. Shows like Married at First Sight constantly get ridiculously high ratings despite being terrible. Reality TV as a whole is fucking terrible and gets great viewership.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Because ratings don't actually tell you what is a good show and what isn't. Shows like Married at First Sight constantly get ridiculously high ratings despite being terrible. Reality TV as a whole is fucking terrible and gets great viewership.


No shit they don’t tell us what is good TV. WCW lost a ratings war and was bought out by Vince McMahon’s Attitude Era soap opera.

But this was precisely my point. Even good wrestling isn’t going to make the mainstream watch anymore.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> NXT takes itself super serious, no?
> 
> Then why is it the worst in terms of ratings of the nationally promotions, man? That’s all I’m saying. You have the serious product, and it isn’t catching on. And don’t blame WWE, because “if it is good, people will watch. They choose not to.” Right?


Because it's the third WWE show and hours six and seven in a week. It's also been far less promoted than any other wrestling. The hardcore fans are all going to show prolonged loyalty to AEW, because Not WWE, and they also know their favorites are eventually going to end up ruined on Raw and SmackDown. Or at least have a history of seeing that happen. 

There's lots of difference reasons. I've already explained how serious wrestling could actually struggle because another product can't take itself seriously. You can be as serious as you want. Present Mid-South if you want to. When the cat's out of the bag because AEW can't keep a straight face, people are going to have trouble taking even a Mid-South seriously. 

Then there's also people being morons, like we all seem to agree about.The ratings do tell you _something_ about a product's popularity (not exactly what people think), but one thing it doesn't measure is quality. Good shows can be outside mainstream taste. Sure. But bad shows can also just give themselves a sour flavor too. It's possible for people to discern that NXT, a rather unexciting but consistent product, is a good show that is not a major commercial hit. It's also possible to look at AEW and say that it's a silly parody of wrestling that also isn't a commercial hit.

So yeah, lots of different obstacles. 

I'm just very certain that the AEW fans who defend Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy, The Dark Order and all that dross would have stuck with AEW if Jacob Fatu, Alexander Hammerstone and The Briscoes had been in their places. And more people would have probably stuck around had it been promoted the same way. And we might still be talking about a show doing over 1 million viewers every week, maybe even creeping up to 2, which would put a little more pressure on Vince McMahon to maybe let his talent be talented.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Because it's the third WWE show and hours six and seven in a week. It's also been far less promoted than any other wrestling. The hardcore fans are all going to show prolonged loyalty to AEW, because Not WWE, and they also know their favorites are eventually going to end up ruined on Raw and SmackDown. Or at least have a history of seeing that happen.
> 
> There's lots of difference reasons. I've already explained how serious wrestling could actually struggle because another product can't take itself seriously. You can be as serious as you want. Present Mid-South if you want to. When the cat's out of the bag because AEW can't keep a straight face, people are going to have trouble taking even a Mid-South seriously.


And AGAIN you openly blame AEW.



> Then there's also people being morons, like we all seem to agree about.The ratings do tell you _something_ about a product's popularity (not exactly what people think), but one thing it doesn't measure is quality. Good shows can be outside mainstream taste. Sure. But bad shows can also just give themselves a sour flavor too. It's possible for people to discern that NXT, a rather unexciting but consistent product, is a good show that is not a major commercial hit. It's also possible to look at AEW and say that it's a silly parody of wrestling that also isn't a commercial hit.
> 
> So yeah, lots of different obstacles.
> 
> I'm just very certain that the AEW fans who defend Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy, The Dark Order and all that dross would have stuck with AEW if Jacob Fatu, Alexander Hammerstone and The Briscoes had been in their places. And more people would have probably stuck around had it been promoted the same way. And we might still be talking about a show doing over 1 million viewers every week, maybe even creeping up to 2, which would put a little more pressure on Vince McMahon to maybe let his talent be talented.


And we could be talking about a show that is doing 650-750k viewers and only hitting 800k ONCE in the last 5 months.

At what point do you want to admit that what we fucking enjoy isn’t attracting new fans no matter what? You make this BS excuse about NXT being hour 6 and 7, but if it is good fucking wrestling, people will show up. That’s what you’ve fucking said.

Wrestling was never “cool” until they Jerry Springer’d it, until Vince turned it into a legitimate sitcom no different than Friends. Yes, you get stupid comedy for 80% of the show, but there is about 20% that is genuine human drama.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> And AGAIN you openly blame AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> And we could be talking about a show that is doing 650-750k viewers and only hitting 800k ONCE in the last 5 months.
> 
> At what point do you want to admit that what we fucking enjoy isn’t attracting new fans no matter what? You make this BS excuse about NXT being hour 6 and 7, but if it is good fucking wrestling, people will show up. That’s what you’ve fucking said.
> 
> Wrestling was never “cool” until they Jerry Springer’d it, until Vince turned it into a legitimate sitcom no different than Friends. Yes, you get stupid comedy for 80% of the show, but there is about 20% that is genuine human drama.


There's nothing wrong with blaming AEW for what AEW does, lol. I don't know why that is such a murder hornet in your bonnet. 

What I enjoy hasn't really been done on the screen for a long time. It seems to be generally accepted by wrestling fans as the best stuff. I think if you asked AEW fans what the best parts of AEW have been, I'd actually almost completely agree up until the point Omega and The Bucks get too much love. Pro-wrestling still draws all over place -- it's just the actual pro-wrestling promotions that won't try it.

I'm a pretty cynical guy about the state of wrestling, but sorry -- even I'm not so cynical I would rule out sensible, logical wrestling with a budget doing better than its silly parallel.

I've got no clue what your last paragraph is even about. I don't know where this talk of "cool" is coming from. I don't think I've really ever said that I think wrestling will be super-cool, nor do I want it to be. I just want it to be good and appeal to the majority of wrestling fans again -- of which there are still millions.


----------



## bdon

“Cool” = mainstream

“Cool” is walking around wearing your nWo shirt. Something we all agree that Orange Cassidy, Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, none of these fucks are making it “cool”.

And yes, we can blame AEW for what AEW does. You go and blame AEW for the industry as a whole being in the shitter.

Why has no one tried to do logical wrestling with a budget? What is NXT?

Oh, that’s right. It’s held back by the WWE brand name of which everyone in the world knows about.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> “Cool” = mainstream
> 
> “Cool” is walking around wearing your nWo shirt. Something we all agree that Orange Cassidy, Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, none of these fucks are making it “cool”.
> 
> And yes, we can blame AEW for what AEW does. You go and blame AEW for the industry as a whole being in the shitter.


Yeah, I'd agree none of them make it cool. I'd take Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns over Orange Cassidy. I don't get your point there. 

AEW are not responsible for anything that's come before it. But they are absolutely responsible for creating an environment that is going to scare anyone else from investing in wrestling for a long, long time. That is absolutely their fault and I am allowed to be mad about it. 



bdon said:


> Why has no one tried to do logical wrestling with a budget? What is NXT?
> 
> Oh, that’s right. It’s held back by the WWE brand name of which everyone in the world knows about.


NXT is not the same thing as a completely independent promotion with a billionaire not named Vince McMahon backing it, and you know it.


----------



## bdon

The point was that Cassidy is a fucking geek. Wearing his shirt is not cool. Roman is a fucking stud athlete. Wearing his shirt is not cool. Cody has the last name RHODES. Wearing his shirt is not cool.

NXT is attached to Vince. I get that, but there are kids and young people that CAN be made into fans, young people who don’t have a reason to hate Vince McMahon. They’re on national television. They have a big budget. They do super serious wrestling, and yet it still isn’t clicking.

It’s a fucking dead entertainment medium, except for very, very small portion of the population.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> AEW is the least most popular wrestling promotion that has ever existed on a national/international level ever. That's my evidence. There's not really any disputing that. You can't prove a negative, but there are negative fans that are interested in the style of wrestling AEW puts on. It's well known that silly stuff turns people off. We've seen the interest in wrestling cap itself over the years by blowing up its own logic. They are fans that never came back.
> 
> You can be in denial about it all you want, but it's widely accepted that the harder you make it for someone to suspend their disbelief, the less likely they are to support your product. Wrestling functions on the ability to suspend your disbelief. That's why it's called a "work." This stuff just makes it harder for the fans to watch and a promotion to gain traction. That's not my opinion. That's reason.
> 
> 
> 
> A few things on this:
> 
> 1. Those ratings are dogshit for wrestling. Don't give me "times have changed" and all that. Raw and SmackDown still (usually) sit about 2 million viewers. There is a horny audience out there. They are just going completely unfucked by AEW.
> 
> 2. If Orange Cassidy is your highest rated segment, what does that say about your other segments?
> 
> 3. Sometimes people watch things and think "Look at this shit! Holy fuck is wrestling bad!" I've seen people do it. Viewership is not a measure of quality. If you're going to slip and fall on your ass, would you rather it happen in private or at your wedding? The goal should be to do good shit that gets seen by a lot of people. The lots of people is important because it means you are going to get paid more for advertising, which means you can pay stars like stars and can keep yourself viable and generating good content. The good content is important to make sure more than 800,000 fucking people watch.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know I haven't booked shows? Or aren't booking them now?
> 
> Cornette's not my messiah. Definitely a genius and on-point about 99.9% of things he says though. There are plenty of reasons that casuals won't come back to wrestling:
> 
> 1. It sucks.
> 
> 2. It insults their intelligence.
> 
> 3. "You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube," as Cornette likes to say.
> 
> A lot of people who would have sincerely given a shit about pro-wrestling and would be a driving audience to getting it mainstream acceptance again have had their hearts broken by it. Whether that be when TBS bought Jim Crockett Promotions and announced they're "changing the scripts," or when Goldberg got beaten, or when Austin shoot Vince's hand. Or maybe it was when Triple H spent a decade as World Champ one year.
> 
> And when you've got silliness all around you, it's hard to be taken seriously. That's why the silly stuff is bad for wrestling _as a whole._ Jacob Fatu can be the most impressive and explosive fucking bad-ass in wrestling, and I love him for it, but MLW is going to have a harder time getting noticed while AEW is out there letting Matt Hardy teleport and Marko Stunt floss. You need something that can knock it out of its place to properly compete. That is why my dream is that The Rock starts his own wrestling promotion and runs against Vince properly. It'd be better for wrestling than having a choice between bad comedy and bad comedy.
> 
> If Tony Khan had started a promotion with Jim Cornette and Jim Ross at the helm. Where Arn Anderson wasn't just a token figure. If they had managed to get Randy Orton to jump and CM Punk to sign. If they had ticked all those boxes, I guarantee you it would be doing better than 1 million people. I know it in my bones, and frankly, so does everyone else. They just don't want to admit it. But you can't just snap your fingers and make a giant promotion appear. That's what a promotion allows you to do -- promote.
> 
> And Cornette was consulted by Tony Khan when starting out. Cornette gave him his advice but told him he didn't want to be involved because of who is going to be at the top, because he knows they won't be able to take it seriously. And he was right. And you can see almost everything Cornette has said actually play out. The stuff Cornette has absolutely HATED, AEW has actually apologized for. And you can tell the veterans think it's shit. You hear it in JR's commentary and Arn Anderson's excuses for comedy wrestling. They basically have both admitted it. But, for whatever reason -- maybe it's feeling his hands forced by the audience that is there from the start -- Tony Khan has felt like he had to go down the PWG path. It's what's keeping New Japan from working with them, it's what kept CM Punk and Randy Orton away, it's what's keeping viewers away. And it's why we won't get a fucking awesome Jim Cornette promo sponsoring The Revolt on AEW TV, which you and I both know would be the best thing on that show thus far in 2020.


you are only basing its popularity on out of date tv ratings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> Well, this is bullshit.
> 
> The wackier wrestling has got, the less popular it has become. Wrestling is at an all time low which coincides with wackiness being at an all time high.


you’re at an all-time high

wrestling is filled with edgelord, super serious characters for the majority of the last 10 yrs

OC is gonna save wresling


----------



## bdon

@The Wood serious question, one I am almost sure I already know your response to, but what do you make of the fact AEW beat Raw in the 18-34 male demographic? Surely even you can’t find a way to shit on that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> NXT takes itself super serious, no?
> 
> Then why is it the worst in terms of ratings of the nationally promotions, man? That’s all I’m saying. You have the serious product, and it isn’t catching on. And don’t blame WWE, because “if it is good, people will watch. They choose not to.” Right?


It has very little star power (Apart from Charlotte). If they decided "Fuck it, we want NXT to be more than a glorified development territory" and brought in an AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan or any other serious wrestler who can go in the ring the ratings would improve.

Personally if I was WWE I'd be stoked to barely be losing to AEW each week despite the fact that AEW has some of the biggest stars in wrestling running around.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> It has very little star power (Apart from Charlotte). If they decided "Fuck it, we want NXT to be more than a glorified development territory" and brought in an AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan or any other serious wrestler who can go in the ring the ratings would improve.
> 
> Personally if I was WWE I'd be stoked to barely be losing to AEW each week despite the fact that AEW has some of the biggest stars in wrestling running around.


I do wonder how AEW would do without their ex-WWE main eventers. That's what NXT is at the moment. If Vince gave Triple H AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan it would be game over for Sometimes Elite Wrestling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> It has very little star power (Apart from Charlotte). If they decided "Fuck it, we want NXT to be more than a glorified development territory" and brought in an AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan or any other serious wrestler who can go in the ring the ratings would improve.
> 
> Personally if I was WWE I'd be stoked to barely be losing to AEW each week despite the fact that AEW has some of the biggest stars in wrestling running around.


You mean like they did Finn Balor?


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> You mean like they did Finn Balor?


And only Finn Balor. An upper midcarder who they had nothing for at the time.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> @The Wood serious question, one I am almost sure I already know your response to, but what do you make of the fact AEW beat Raw in the 18-34 male demographic? Surely even you can’t find a way to shit on that.


Not shit on it, but it isn’t great news for anybody. Raw’s worst night has to be AEW’s best.

I’ve said before that way too much is made of key demos. They are archaic. I don’t many people in that demo with access to cable, for example. Younger people edge towards young media. I’d make this case in a proper thesis — TV is archaic and a lot of people are playing catch-up. I’d still look at viewership because you’re probably dealing with a wider ranger of older people with cable. AEW had, what? Roughly a million less viewers?

It’s terrible news for Raw, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like AEW is hot property.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> And only Finn Balor. An upper midcarder who they had nothing for at the time.


You mean former WWE universal champion coming back from an injury? The man who won the big one before doing anything else?

Yall too goofy. Finn Balor is on the same level as Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles. None of these guys will ever move the needle for NXT.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> You mean like they did Finn Balor?


I've liked Finn for a long time since he was running around in the NWA as Fergal Devitt but he isn't on the level of AJ or Bryan. The IWC had very high hopes for Finn but as pointed out he's pretty much been an upper midcarder. He has fallen well short of where the IWC and probably the WWE also wanted him to be.

Meanwhile AJ and Bryan are proven WWE main event guys and have huge fanbases away from the IWC. 



optikk sucks said:


> You mean former WWE universal champion coming back from an injury? The man who won the big one before doing anything else?
> 
> Yall too goofy. Finn Balor is on the same level as Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles. None of these guys will ever move the needle for NXT.


If AJ or Bryan got released tomorrow you'd be the first one banging the hammer rallying AEW to sign them and AEW would throw millions at them to sign. Not bad for two guys who don't bring fans to respective TV shows.


----------



## Mike E

AEW are far more popular then their TV ratings show, shoot all wrestling programs are. Alot of the fan base is streaming or downloading from a torrent site. Pretty much everyone I Know doesn't even have cable or satellite TV anymore. Truth is, we will never really know how many people watch these shows and how popular they really are. 

AEW were making money before all this crazy stuff started and by all accounts they were trending upwards. Hopefully they have good pay-per-view buys for double or nothing and when things get back to normal, we will see how their ratings bounce back and attendance does.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've liked Finn for a long time since he was running around in the NWA as Fergal Devitt but he isn't on the level of AJ or Bryan. The IWC had very high hopes for Finn but as pointed out he's pretty much been an upper midcarder. He has fallen well short of where the IWC and probably the WWE also wanted him to be.
> 
> Meanwhile AJ and Bryan are proven WWE main event guys and have huge fanbases away from the IWC.
> 
> 
> 
> If AJ or Bryan got released tomorrow you'd be the first one banging the hammer rallying AEW to sign them and AEW would throw millions at them to sign. Not bad for two guys who don't bring fans to respective TV shows.


Nah I’d rather AEW be smart with their money. That’s why I didn’t call for Edge to be signed.
NXT is a problem because WWE have saturated their fanbase with 5 hours between SD and RAW. I think you can say that only their most loyal of fans will happily add another 2 hours of WWE programming

AEW and WWE dont share most of their fans I reckon.

the only movers for NXT would be Roman, Lesnar and Wyatt.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Nah I’d rather AEW be smart with their money. That’s why I didn’t call for Edge to be signed.


Why would you not want AEW to sign arguably two of the best in ring competitors of the modern era?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Why would you not want AEW to sign arguably two of the best in ring competitors of the modern era?


I never said that. You said I’d be “the first one hammer blah blah”

I just said that no, I wouldn’t. If AEW signed them fine; if they don’t, then fine. WCW signed Ex-WWE stars and it ultimately led to their downfall lol.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> You mean former WWE universal champion coming back from an injury? The man who won the big one before doing anything else?
> 
> Yall too goofy. Finn Balor is on the same level as Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles. None of these guys will ever move the needle for NXT.


I can't even deal with your spin anymore, man. You'll literally say anything without worry of being massively incorrect. There is no way Finn Balor is on the same level as AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan. You're not even a good troll, I just think you struggle with reality and many of your opinions reflect that.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Why would you not want AEW to sign arguably two of the best in ring competitors of the modern era?


This is something they have to say when they don't sign with AEW


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> I can't even deal with your spin anymore, man. You'll literally say anything without worry of being massively incorrect. There is no way Finn Balor is on the same level as AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan. You're not even a good troll, I just think you struggle with reality and many of your opinions reflect that.


Finn Balor is on the same level as both guys in WWE. Easily. Similar win loss records and achievements.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> WCW signed Ex-WWE stars and it ultimately led to their downfall lol.


Not really. WCW became a success from hiring big stars. The issue WCW had was giving the wrestlers too much control and management blindly trusting the talent to do what's best for the show.

Remind you of any other promotions?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> This is something they have to say when they don't sign with AEW


Oh boy, you Corny sycophants really on the ball today.
Btw cult im not even trying to troll you; i like you x


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Finn Balor is on the same level as both guys in WWE. Easily. Similar win loss records and achievements.


Similar achievements? You're off your head, mate.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Oh boy, you Corny sycophants really on the ball today.
> Btw cult im not even trying to troll you; i like you x


I've literally listened to Corny's podcast 4 times and probably heard his opinion on Youtube around another 4 times ever. I don't even follow him on Twitter. I remember unfollowing him years ago because he was getting too into his politics. We've had this conversation before though


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Similar achievements? You're off your head, mate.


Easily. You could thrust any of these guys into the WWE title chase and nobody would bat an eyelid. That makes them the same level. They are all upper midcarders, atleast Balor was before downgrading to NXT.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Easily. You could thrust any of these guys into the WWE title chase and nobody would bat an eyelid. That makes them the same level. They are all upper midcarders, atleast Balor was before downgrading to NXT.


You're trolling.

AJ Styles (2 time WWE Champion, 2 time IWGP Champion, 2 time TNA World Heavyweight Championship, 2 time NWA World Heavyweight Champion, main evented part 1 of WrestleMania this year)

Daniel Bryan (4 times WWE Champion, 1 time World Heavyweight Champion, 1 time ROH World Heavyweight Champion, main evented WrestleMania 30)

Finn Balor (1 time WWE Universal Champion, 1 time NXT Champion)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're trolling.
> 
> AJ Styles (2 time WWE Champion, 2 time IWGP Champion, 2 time TNA World Heavyweight Championship, 2 time NWA World Heavyweight Champion, main evented part 1 of WrestleMania this year)
> 
> Daniel Bryan (4 times WWE Champion, 1 time World Heavyweight Champion, 1 time ROH World Heavyweight Champion, main evented WrestleMania 30)
> 
> Finn Balor (1 time WWE Universal Champion, 1 time NXT Champion)


NWA, IWGP, and ROH achievements do not matter in the context that you’re talking about.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Easily. You could thrust any of these guys into the WWE title chase and nobody would bat an eyelid. That makes them the same level. They are all upper midcarders, atleast Balor was before downgrading to NXT.


Just because someone was in the main event at one point doesn't mean they stay there for their entire career. Finn has been on top of the mid card for a while now. Is Lashley a main eventer? Is Ziggler? Definitely not


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> NWA, IWGP, and ROH achievements do not matter in the context that you’re talking about.


Ah so Dolph Ziggler is better than Sting in your opinion? Or are we allowing WCW achievements?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> NWA, IWGP, and ROH achievements do not matter in the context that you’re talking about.


I count that as a contributing factor to their popularity as draws to wrestling fans but if you only want to count WWE it's still 2 World Title runs (Lengthy ones at that) for AJ, 5 for Daniel Bryan and only one (A one day run at that) for Finn.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Ah so Dolph Ziggler is better than Sting in your opinion? Or are we allowing WCW achievements?


WCW was sold in 2001; their achievements still do matter in the context of legends.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> WCW was sold in 2001; their achievements still do matter in the context of legends.


Jesus Christ..


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I count that as a contributing factor to their popularity as draws to wrestling fans but if you only want to count WWE it's still 2 World Title runs (Lengthy ones at that) for AJ, 5 for Daniel Bryan and only one (A one day run at that) for Finn.


Finn Balor was injured before he could achieve the same level.

but I mean either way, number of achievements is not a good argument for level of superstar. They are all ex World champions and all 3 could main event Wrestlemania very easily. However, all of them are not consistently main eventing - this makes them upper midcard. 

like @Cult03 said, if we are comparing achievements, does it mean that Ziggler is a bigger draw than Sting?


----------



## DaSlacker

Wrestling truly jumped the shark back when Jim Herd was bringing in Robocop, Warrior was selling Papa Shango's voodoo stuff and The Undertaker was dying and ascending to heaven. The NWO run brought realism back, Hogan's heel turn symbolized something new and WWF embraced wackiness. Worth noting the peak of Monday Night Wars occurred just before broadband Internet and as cable households peaked.

UFC/MMA boom didn't exactly help the more serious in-ring style of pro wrestling.

Daniel Bryan, Balor, Charlotte, Becky, AJ etc aren't significant ratings attractions. Neither are Roman, Seth, Braun etc. NXT is still modern video game style wrestling at the end of the day.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Not shit on it, but it isn’t great news for anybody. Raw’s worst night has to be AEW’s best.
> 
> I’ve said before that way too much is made of key demos. They are archaic. I don’t many people in that demo with access to cable, for example. Younger people edge towards young media. I’d make this case in a proper thesis — TV is archaic and a lot of people are playing catch-up. I’d still look at viewership because you’re probably dealing with a wider ranger of older people with cable. AEW had, what? Roughly a million less viewers?
> 
> It’s terrible news for Raw, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like AEW is hot property.


tony Khan “our 18-49 demo is what we get paid on, it is our bread and butter”

but the wood says too much is made of them 👏🏻


----------



## Danielallen1410

Mike E said:


> AEW are far more popular then their TV ratings show, shoot all wrestling programs are. Alot of the fan base is streaming or downloading from a torrent site. Pretty much everyone I Know doesn't even have cable or satellite TV anymore. Truth is, we will never really know how many people watch these shows and how popular they really are.
> 
> AEW were making money before all this crazy stuff started and by all accounts they were trending upwards. Hopefully they have good pay-per-view buys for double or nothing and when things get back to normal, we will see how their ratings bounce back and attendance does.


per show aew have the highest attendance of any wrestling company

their PPV buys are good

but negative people will focus on ratings, despite the fact people rarely watch tv live.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Finn Balor was injured before he could achieve the same level.
> 
> but I mean either way, number of achievements is not a good argument for level of superstar. They are all ex World champions and all 3 could main event Wrestlemania very easily. However, all of them are not consistently main eventing - this makes them upper midcard.
> 
> like @Cult03 said, if we are comparing achievements, does it mean that Ziggler is a bigger draw than Sting?


You were the one that brought up achievements! What the actual fuck?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> You were the one that brought up achievements! What the actual fuck?


No I did not: 




Chip Chipperson said:


> You're trolling.
> 
> AJ Styles (2 time WWE Champion, 2 time IWGP Champion, 2 time TNA World Heavyweight Championship, 2 time NWA World Heavyweight Champion, main evented part 1 of WrestleMania this year)
> 
> Daniel Bryan (4 times WWE Champion, 1 time World Heavyweight Champion, 1 time ROH World Heavyweight Champion, main evented WrestleMania 30)
> 
> Finn Balor (1 time WWE Universal Champion, 1 time NXT Champion)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Finn Balor is on the same level as both guys in WWE. Easily. Similar win loss records and *achievements.*


Bruh...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bruh...


Their achievements are very similar. But there’s more than just NuMbEr of InDy TiTleS aka titles that mean fuck all in the WWE. I am talking about how they have all main evented, faced Lesnar and/or Undertaker, been a top face (temporarily or not) etc.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Their achievements are very similar. But there’s more than just NuMbEr of InDy TiTleS aka titles that mean fuck all in the WWE. I am talking about how they have all main evented, faced Lesnar and/or Undertaker, been a top face (temporarily or not) etc.


You keep spinning and you'll get dizzy, mate.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've liked Finn for a long time since he was running around in the NWA as Fergal Devitt but he isn't on the level of AJ or Bryan. The IWC had very high hopes for Finn but as pointed out he's pretty much been an upper midcarder. He has fallen well short of where the IWC and probably the WWE also wanted him to be.
> 
> Meanwhile AJ and Bryan are proven WWE main event guys and have huge fanbases away from the IWC.
> 
> 
> 
> If AJ or Bryan got released tomorrow you'd be the first one banging the hammer rallying AEW to sign them and AEW would throw millions at them to sign. Not bad for two guys who don't bring fans to respective TV shows.


No, I would be the first one banging that drum. Omega to WWE or them to AEW. The world needs those matches to happen.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Finn Balor is on the same level as both guys in WWE. Easily. Similar win loss records and achievements.


Hate to get kayfabe on you, but AJ Styles is a two-time WWE Champion, held it for over a year and main evented WrestleMania against The Undertaker this year. Daniel Bryan is something like a five-time World Champion in WWE -- enough to lose count -- and has worked with some of the top stars in the industry and main evented a WrestleMania. He's also been in featured matches for at least two more. Both have arguably been the most popular wrestler on the roster at some point in time (Daniel Bryan from 2012-2015, AJ from 2016-2017). 

You are talking absolute nonsense. Finn has grown on me since I've seen more of his recent work, but he's perceived as being nowhere near Bryan or Styles, either by hardcore or whatever passes as a casual fan these days. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> tony Khan “our 18-49 demo is what we get paid on, it is our bread and butter”
> 
> but the wood says too much is made of them 👏🏻


What is Tony Khan supposed to say when it's about the only thing they've truly got going for them? I'm sure Meltzer told him it was a good idea too, since Meltzer just cannot seem to divorce himself from the idea of taking TV ratings hyper-literally and applying 1990's metrics to them. Kids don't watch Supersoaker commercials on TV anymore. Ask anyone under the age of 50 what their favorite TV commercial is at the moment.

The idea of the key demo driving TV ratings is archaic. That's all I'm saying. Cable itself is becoming more and more archaic. So, hey, maybe there are some dinosaurs in a TNT boardroom that follow this shit. I know of plenty of people in TV who don't take them seriously _at all_. They understand that more and more content is shifting towards being on-the-go. Maybe if AEW gets played on the B/R Live app or whatever else TNT offers for streaming, there are ads that get good dollar there. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that the bread and butter for AEW would be their TV rights fees, which they didn't secure in a big way. 

Do you also take Vince McMahon's word when he says something during an investor meeting?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Hate to get kayfabe on you, but AJ Styles is a two-time WWE Champion, held it for over a year and main evented WrestleMania against The Undertaker this year. Daniel Bryan is something like a five-time World Champion in WWE -- enough to lose count -- and has worked with some of the top stars in the industry and main evented a WrestleMania. He's also been in featured matches for at least two more. Both have arguably been the most popular wrestler on the roster at some point in time (Daniel Bryan from 2012-2015, AJ from 2016-2017).
> 
> You are talking absolute nonsense. Finn has grown on me since I've seen more of his recent work, but he's perceived as being nowhere near Bryan or Styles, either by hardcore or whatever passes as a casual fan these days.
> 
> 
> 
> What is Tony Khan supposed to say when it's about the only thing they've truly got going for them? I'm sure Meltzer told him it was a good idea too, since Meltzer just cannot seem to divorce himself from the idea of taking TV ratings hyper-literally and applying 1990's metrics to them. Kids don't watch Supersoaker commercials on TV anymore. Ask anyone under the age of 50 what their favorite TV commercial is at the moment.
> 
> The idea of the key demo driving TV ratings is archaic. That's all I'm saying. Cable itself is becoming more and more archaic. So, hey, maybe there are some dinosaurs in a TNT boardroom that follow this shit. I know of plenty of people in TV who don't take them seriously _at all_. They understand that more and more content is shifting towards being on-the-go. Maybe if AEW gets played on the B/R Live app or whatever else TNT offers for streaming, there are ads that get good dollar there. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that the bread and butter for AEW would be their TV rights fees, which they didn't secure in a big way.
> 
> Do you also take Vince McMahon's word when he says something during an investor meeting?


As explained, they are all upper midcarders. That was atleast until Balor was downgraded to NXT in order for them to compete with AEW. If you want to bring kayfabe achievements into this, Balor was the first ever Univedsal champion. He’s also had the opportunity to face the biggest current star in Lesnar - that’s something that Daniel Bryan hasnt had a chance to do. Has AJ? I don’t recall AJ faxing Lesnar either. You’re talking a load of bollocks mate.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> As explained, they are all upper midcarders. That was atleast until Balor was downgraded to NXT in order for them to compete with AEW. If you want to bring kayfabe achievements into this, Balor was the first ever Univedsal champion. He’s also had the opportunity to face the biggest current star in Lesnar - that’s something that Daniel Bryan hasnt had a chance to do. Has AJ? I don’t recall AJ faxing Lesnar either.


Lol, they both had matches against Lesnar at Survivor Series, and both were two of the best matches I had seen from their respective years (probably _the_ best, actually). Balor was Universal Champion for a day and never got to sniff above IC level seriously again. He got one match against Lesnar no one bought him in. And it was a fine little deal, but come on now. Bryan and Styles have both been presented as main eventers. In-and-out main eventers (especially Bryan), but main eventers. When WrestleMania comes up, Balor is in the IC Title match.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Lol, they both had matches against Lesnar at Survivor Series, and both were two of the best matches I had seen from their respective years (probably _the_ best, actually). Balor was Universal Champion for a day and never got to sniff above IC level seriously again. He got one match against Lesnar no one bought him in. And it was a fine little deal, but come on now. Bryan and Styles have both been presented as main eventers. In-and-out main eventers (especially Bryan), but main eventers. When WrestleMania comes up, Balor is in the IC Title match.


Balor was injured and that inhibited his run. If he wasn’t relegated to NXT, he would most likely be world champion right now. AJ and Daniel Bryan were always seen as B+ players. Both have hardly touched the world championships and have been doing upper midcard feuds. They’re all on the same level. Only main eventers in WWE right now are Lesnar, Goldberg, Mcintyre and Wyatt. Possibly Rollins. Hell, Roman Reigns was relegated to feuding with losers like Baron Corbin for a year or so.

anyway I don’t know why you corny sycophants are fixated on discussing a WWE topic in an AEW thread. If you are fans of WWE, pleas discuss this in the WWE section. @Cult03 background watches WWE so I’m surprised he even knows what’s going on in the promotion.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Balor was injured and that inhibited his run. If he wasn’t relegated to NXT, he would most likely be world champion right now. AJ and Daniel Bryan were always seen as B+ players. Both have hardly touched the world championships and have been doing upper midcard feuds. They’re all on the same level. Only main eventers in WWE right now are Lesnar, Goldberg, Mcintyre and Wyatt. Possibly Rollins. Hell, Roman Reigns was relegated to feuding with losers like Baron Corbin for a year or so.
> 
> anyway I don’t know why you corny sycophants are fixated on discussing a WWE topic in an AEW thread. If you are fans of WWE, pleas discuss this in the WWE section. @Cult03 background watches WWE so I’m surprised he even knows what’s going on in the promotion.


Balor was injured. Sure, that inhibited his run. But guess what? His run was inhibited. He never got another chance. We’re not talking what if’s here — we’re talking about what actually happened.

Bryan and AJ are not mid-carders, lol. They’ve filled out the mid-card in the past, but they’re main event level guys and everyone knows it. “B+ Player” is a work. Styles was WWE Champion in his first year. He won it his second year. He held it for over a year. Then he main evented against Undertaker. Yep, B+.

Stop trying to deflect. You brought this up because you wanted to compare Balor to Styles and Bryan to brag about how they wouldn’t help NXT in the ratings against AEW. You’ve been called on it being ridiculous.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Balor was injured. Sure, that inhibited his run. But guess what? His run was inhibited. He never got another chance. We’re not talking what if’s here — we’re talking about what actually happened.
> 
> Bryan and AJ are not mid-carders, lol. They’ve filled out the mid-card in the past, but they’re main event level guys and everyone knows it. “B+ Player” is a work. Styles was WWE Champion in his first year. He won it his second year. He held it for over a year. Then he main evented against Undertaker. Yep, B+.
> 
> Stop trying to deflect. You brought this up because you wanted to compare Balor to Styles and Bryan to brag about how they wouldn’t help NXT in the ratings against AEW. You’ve been called on it being ridiculous.


Lol. They are upper midcarders. Stop selectively reading things. Nobody called them midcarders. Nothing will help NXT against AEW except for Reigns, Lesnar, Goldberg, The Rock, CM Punk. Hell, even Stone Cold did nothing for the ratings during his most recent return. But yeah, please take your AJ/Daniel Bryan brown nosing to the WWE section, cheers.

let’s also not forget that the part timer Edge did nothing for RAW. In fact, one of his segments actually lost viewers. What a brilliant cost-effective talent acquisition there by VKM huh. Doesnt exactly fill you with confidence that anyone can increase the ratings in current circumstances.

5 hours of RAW and SD - nobody is going to watch NXT just for AJ or Bryan lol. Don’t be so deluded, you’re smarter than this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> let’s also not forget that the part timer Edge did nothing for RAW. In fact, one of his segments actually lost viewers. What a brilliant cost-effective talent acquisition there by VKM huh. Doesnt exactly fill you with confidence that anyone can increase the ratings in current circumstances.


The irony in an AEW fan mocking another wrestling company for their hiring strategy...


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Balor was injured and that inhibited his run. If he wasn’t relegated to NXT, he would most likely be world champion right now. AJ and Daniel Bryan were always seen as B+ players. Both have hardly touched the world championships and have been doing upper midcard feuds. They’re all on the same level. Only main eventers in WWE right now are Lesnar, Goldberg, Mcintyre and Wyatt. Possibly Rollins. Hell, Roman Reigns was relegated to feuding with losers like Baron Corbin for a year or so.
> 
> anyway I don’t know why you corny sycophants are fixated on discussing a WWE topic in an AEW thread. If you are fans of WWE, pleas discuss this in the WWE section. @Cult03* background watches WWE so I’m surprised he even knows what’s going on in the promotion.*


I might background watch it but even I knew that Styles and Bryan had matches with Lesnar soooo. You're taking L after L at the moment. You should have a break, reflect on your actions and come back fresh and ready to have adult conversations without any bullshit spin every time you're proven to be wrong.


----------



## 10gizzle

I think bring someone like Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles would be a detriment to them both.

Some of the most accomplished wrestlers of the last 20 years being sent to a development (albeit - a good one) brand might be exciting for the first bit but in the end - they'd still just be feuding with those far beneath their station and pedigree


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> The irony in an AEW fan mocking another wrestling company for their hiring strategy...


I’m a fan of pro wrestling. The funny thing is when you goof balls make comments like this, it shows your subjectivity and bias.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> I’m a fan of pro wrestling. The funny thing is when you goof balls make comments like this, it shows your subjectivity and bias.


Every time we make comments like this it's to prove your hypocrisy. It doesn't mean we are not fans of AEW in whatever way. It simply means "uh oh, you would advocate for this if was the other way around".


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Every time we make comments like this it's to prove your hypocrisy. It doesn't mean we are not fans of AEW in whatever way. It simply means "uh oh, you would advocate for this if was the other way around".


Lol. Enough now you WWE sycophant. I can see that when someone makes a critical comment in the WWE sxn, you’re all over them calling them an AEW fan. Can’t take when someone makes any critical comments about WWE. AEW and its fans must live rent free in your head.


----------



## Pippen94

Does anybody know if the anti aew faction which posts in this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts? Seems like they're all from same place - unfortunately it's my home country


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Lol. Enough now you WWE sycophant. I can see that when someone makes a critical comment in the WWE sxn, you’re all over them calling them an AEW fan. Can’t take when someone makes any critical comments about WWE. AEW and its fans must live rent free in your head.


You do realize I was saying the AEW match was much better but both had a lot of shit in it right? I was being critical of WWE in that post haha you're actually insane. You have literally no perception of reality at this point and your attempts to spin everything are so terrible that I'm starting to worry about you.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Does anybody know if the anti aew faction which posts in this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts? Seems like they're all from same place - unfortunately it's my home country


El Hammerstone is Canadian so that blows that theory out of the water. The only person with multiple accounts is Garty. You all tend to make things up and attempt to spin things so odds are high that you are one of his multiple accounts.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> You do realize I was saying the AEW match was much better but both had a lot of shit in it right? I was being critical of WWE in that post haha you're actually insane. You have literally no perception of reality at this point and your attempts to spin everything are so terrible that I'm starting to worry about you.


lol do you realise how much you’re spinning things now? You’re coming off as a hypocrite, avoiding any point I make and going in circles. Go be a sycophant elsewhere

Can’t wait for DoN. Will be much better than that trash WWE put out last night. I mean two grown men cowering at barging in on VKM. No grown men in WWE. Austin would’ve stunned VKM. Marko Stunt would’ve probably got VKM flossing tbh.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> lol do you realise how much you’re spinning things now? You’re coming off as a hypocrite, avoiding any point I make and going in circles. Go be a sycophant elsewhere
> 
> Can’t wait for DoN. Will be much better than that trash WWE put out last night. I mean two grown men cowering at barging in on VKM. No grown men in WWE. Austin would’ve stunned VKM. Marko Stunt would’ve probably got VKM flossing tbh.


You literally aren't even grounded in reality at this point. Your attempts to catch me out aren't working and you're starting to follow Garty into a world of insanity. Also you're constantly fucking off topic. If I pay for a premium membership do I get to do whatever I want too? 

DoN will probably be better than MITB, I never said it wouldn't be. I do hope you don't actually believe that last sentence though.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> You literally aren't even grounded in reality at this point. Your attempts to catch me out aren't working and you're starting to follow Garty into a world of insanity. Also you're constantly fucking off topic. If I pay for a premium membership do I get to do whatever I want too?
> 
> DoN will probably be better than MITB, I never said it wouldn't be. I do hope you don't actually believe that last sentence though.


Garty still lives rent free in your head. Seriously, you’ve now just resorted to attacking me. Please stick to the topic. I have attempted to steer this topic back to AEW and its product, but you’re choosing to continue attempting to try and validate your own thoughts by attacking other posters. Please stop; you are looking very bad.

AEW will hopefully go back to normal with their ratings once Covid is over.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Garty still lives rent free in your head. Seriously, you’ve now just resorted to attacking me. Please stick to the topic. I have attempted to steer this topic back to AEW and its product, but you’re choosing to continue attempting to try and validate your own thoughts by attacking other posters. Please stop; you are looking very bad.
> 
> AEW will hopefully go back to normal with their ratings once Covid is over.


Aw such a victim. You going to be ok? Garty is being brought up because you all act like him when you spiral into fabricating things to suit your argument. Speaking of which, I can show everyone the inbox I received from you saying you thought @Danielallen1410 was him too if needed. When you say I do things that I didn't, you're lying or fabricating stuff out of nowhere. You're either lying or losing the plot, mate. I'm not going to sit here and let you spin shit to make me look bad, I'll do that myself thank you very much. 

Hopefully they will be back to normal. Ratings mean fuck all, so hopefully their show steps it's game up.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Lol. They are upper midcarders. Stop selectively reading things. Nobody called them midcarders. Nothing will help NXT against AEW except for Reigns, Lesnar, Goldberg, The Rock, CM Punk. Hell, even Stone Cold did nothing for the ratings during his most recent return. But yeah, please take your AJ/Daniel Bryan brown nosing to the WWE section, cheers.
> 
> let’s also not forget that the part timer Edge did nothing for RAW. In fact, one of his segments actually lost viewers. What a brilliant cost-effective talent acquisition there by VKM huh. Doesnt exactly fill you with confidence that anyone can increase the ratings in current circumstances.
> 
> 5 hours of RAW and SD - nobody is going to watch NXT just for AJ or Bryan lol. Don’t be so deluded, you’re smarter than this.


Upper mid-card is the mid-card, optikk. It's the upper part of the mid-card. Anyone in the mid-card is a mid-carder. 

When did Stone Cold Steve Austin return to NXT? I must have missed something. What does Edge returning to Raw have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that Edge didn't make 2 million people suddenly start watching Raw? No shit. But you know what a big star can do? Take a few of the 2 million people familiar with them and encourage them to watch a show that currently gets <700k viewers. That's why Moxley and Jericho matter to AEW, but mean shit to Raw and SmackDown should you merely look at the numbers. They would be big fish going to a small pond. Any WWE main event is likely to help either AEW or NXT should they show up there. 

I know I would watch NXT for AJ or Bryan. They're two of the best workers in the world today. I'd love to see what they could do in that environment. You say that people won't watch a show for AJ or Bryan, yet I bet they would for Orange Cassidy? This is absolute insanity.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Aw such a victim. You going to be ok? Garty is being brought up because you all act like him when you spiral into fabricating things to suit your argument. Speaking of which, I can show everyone the inbox I received from you saying you thought @Danielallen1410 was him too if needed. When you say I do things that I didn't, you're lying or fabricating stuff out of nowhere. You're either lying or losing the plot, mate. I'm not going to sit here and let you spin shit to make me look bad, I'll do that myself thank you very much.
> 
> Hopefully they will be back to normal. Ratings mean fuck all, so hopefully their show steps it's game up.





The Wood said:


> Upper mid-card is the mid-card, optikk. It's the upper part of the mid-card. Anyone in the mid-card is a mid-carder.
> 
> When did Stone Cold Steve Austin return to NXT? I must have missed something. What does Edge returning to Raw have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that Edge didn't make 2 million people suddenly start watching Raw? No shit. But you know what a big star can do? Take a few of the 2 million people familiar with them and encourage them to watch a show that currently gets <700k viewers. That's why Moxley and Jericho matter to AEW, but mean shit to Raw and SmackDown should you merely look at the numbers. They would be big fish going to a small pond. Any WWE main event is likely to help either AEW or NXT should they show up there.
> 
> I know I would watch NXT for AJ or Bryan. They're two of the best workers in the world today. I'd love to see what they could do in that environment. You say that people won't watch a show for AJ or Bryan, yet I bet they would for Orange Cassidy? This is absolute insanity.


Oh god, the two WWE sycophants continue to attempt to validate their opinions by attacking others. Please get back on topic. This thread is about AEW ratings, not about AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan being upper midcarders or about how your fascination for Jim Cornette and WWE is clouding your judgement. Btw my friends, I was arguing that AJ and Bryan won’t do anything for NXT as the WWE has saturated their fanbase with 5 hours of programming. An extra 2 hours is really is only going to attract the most loyal of fans. What time is it in Australia? Is it bedtime yet?

Looking forward to AEW destroying NXT in the ratings again, even with former World Champions Finn Balor and Charlotte Flair. Should be a good week this week.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Oh god, the two WWE sycophants continue to attempt to validate their opinions by attacking others. Please get back on topic. This thread is about AEW ratings, not about AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan being upper midcarders or about how your fascination for Jim Cornette and WWE is clouding your judgement. Btw my friends, I was arguing that AJ and Bryan won’t do anything for NXT as the WWE has saturated their fanbase with 5 hours of programming. An extra 2 hours is really is only going to attract the most loyal of fans. What time is it in Australia? Is it bedtime yet?
> 
> Looking forward to AEW destroying NXT in the ratings again, even with former World Champions Finn Balor and Charlotte Flair. Should be a good week this week.


Good time to change the topic back though, after you've had your say and been proven wrong. Enjoy your day. Don't listen to those voices


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> Good time to change the topic back though, after you've had your say and been proven wrong. Enjoy your day. Don't listen to those voices


“Been proven wrong”

if you say so, buddy! Im not the person who said that AEW would lose to NXT if DB and AJ got relegated. I seem to recall that being you. And i simply argued that they already had an upper midcarder in Finn, as well as their fanbase being saturated with 5 hours of programming. 

byt hey, it’s all good. Glad we agree to disagree.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> “Been proven wrong”
> 
> if you say so, buddy! Im not the person who said that AEW would lose to NXT if DB and AJ got relegated. I seem to recall that being you. And i simply argued that they already had an upper midcarder in Finn, as well as their fanbase being saturated with 5 hours of programming.
> 
> byt hey, it’s all good. Glad we agree to disagree.


AEW is beating NXT by like 14 people, mate. Styles and Bryan would absolutely change that. You don't think AEW benefits from having ex-WWE main eventers on their show? I think the fact that RAW and SD both get more viewers despite it being terrible means that if their superstars moved to NXT they'd gain more viewers. It's that simple really.

And yeah in your last 48 hours of trolling I've shown you receipts to prove you wrong and you attempted to spin it all. Funny that you spinning everything also has you spiraling into insanity, buddy! Cya


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Oh god, the two WWE sycophants continue to attempt to validate their opinions by attacking others. Please get back on topic. This thread is about AEW ratings, not about AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan being upper midcarders or about how your fascination for Jim Cornette and WWE is clouding your judgement. Btw my friends, I was arguing that AJ and Bryan won’t do anything for NXT as the WWE has saturated their fanbase with 5 hours of programming. An extra 2 hours is really is only going to attract the most loyal of fans. What time is it in Australia? Is it bedtime yet?
> 
> Looking forward to AEW destroying NXT in the ratings again, even with former World Champions Finn Balor and Charlotte Flair. Should be a good week this week.


Pretty sure Cult has said he has never really listened to Cornette. Also, how can you be both a sycophant for Cornette and the WWE? Which one is it?

Yes, totally sycophantic to suggest that AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan would help a fledgling WWE show. Inherent in there is criticism of NXT, but okay. ;-)

You steered the conversation here with your absolutely crazy batshit assertions. The most sane thing you say is that NXT is the sixth and seventh hour of WWE programming a week. And it’s still about as popular as AEW. Yikes. When has AEW ever done enough viewers to destroy anything in the ratings? Their highest rating was like 1.4 million people.


----------



## bdon

But ratings don’t matter. That’s what I was told.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Cult03 said:


> AEW is beating NXT by like 14 people, mate. Styles and Bryan would absolutely change that. You don't think AEW benefits from having ex-WWE main eventers on their show? I think the fact that RAW and SD both get more viewers despite it being terrible means that if their superstars moved to NXT they'd gain more viewers. It's that simple really.
> 
> And yeah in your last 48 hours of trolling I've shown you receipts to prove you wrong and you attempted to spin it all. Funny that you spinning everything also has you spiraling into insanity, buddy! Cya





The Wood said:


> Pretty sure Cult has said he has never really listened to Cornette. Also, how can you be both a sycophant for Cornette and the WWE? Which one is it?
> 
> Yes, totally sycophantic to suggest that AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan would help a fledgling WWE show. Inherent in there is criticism of NXT, but okay. ;-)
> 
> You steered the conversation here with your absolutely crazy batshit assertions. The most sane thing you say is that NXT is the sixth and seventh hour of WWE programming a week. And it’s still about as popular as AEW. Yikes. When has AEW ever done enough viewers to destroy anything in the ratings? Their highest rating was like 1.4 million people.


You sycophants don’t stop do you. Like I said, glad we can agree to disagree. Wrestling is only subjective at the end of the day! It’s not an argument where we are right or wrong. If you have your own personal issues where you must be right every single time, that’s ok. Nobody here will bully you. No need to be intransigent.

at the end of the day, AJ and DB are upper midcarders who will barely make an impact on the NXT ratings. But it’s ok! Keep at it.

I’ve proven you guys wrong; if you wish to continue replying, feel free. I don’t wish to satisfy your need to be right at a topic that’s fully subjective.


----------



## bdon

Goddamn y’all are insufferable sometimes. Lol


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> But ratings don’t matter. That’s what I was told.


To me they don't, but the debate warranted conversation about ratings. If we were being completely honest with each other we would be saying that NXT has beaten AEW just as often as AEW has beaten NXT in terms of being a good show. Adding Bryan and Styles would also make NXT a better show. What are you trying to prove with your response by the way?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> But ratings don’t matter. That’s what I was told.


There’s a difference between the ratings mattering and them being what they are.



optikk sucks said:


> You sycophants don’t stop do you. Like I said, glad we can agree to disagree. Wrestling is only subjective at the end of the day! It’s not an argument where we are right or wrong. If you have your own personal issues where you must be right every single time, that’s ok. Nobody here will bully you. No need to be intransigent.
> 
> at the end of the day, AJ and DB are upper midcarders who will barely make an impact on the NXT ratings. But it’s ok! Keep at it.
> 
> I’ve proven you guys wrong; if you wish to continue replying, feel free. I don’t wish to satisfy your need to be right at a topic that’s fully subjective.


Most of the things we are discussing are not subjective at all, haha.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> To me they don't, but the debate warranted conversation about ratings. If we were being completely honest with each other we would be saying that NXT has beaten AEW just as often as AEW has beaten NXT in terms of being a good show. Adding Bryan and Styles would also make NXT a better show. What are you trying to prove with your response by the way?


I was responding to Wood crying about going from 1.4m fans to what they’re doing currently. The same poster who suggested NXT would be kicking AEW ass by this time, and that AEW would be only alive due to Khan money by year’s end.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I was responding to Wood crying about going from 1.4m fans to what they’re doing currently. The same poster who suggested NXT would be kicking AEW ass by this time, and that AEW would be only alive due to Khan money by year’s end.


That still doesn’t make any sense. optikk is the one bragging about those numbers.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That still doesn’t make any sense. optikk is the one bragging about those numbers.


I don’t give a shit about that conversation. I seen your post and decided to needle you. Nothing more, man. Lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> That still doesn’t make any sense. optikk is the one bragging about those numbers.


What am I bragging about lol

@Cult03 said if AJ and Bryan were relegated, it would cream AEW in ratings. Now he’s changed his tone to “it would be a better show” lmao.

you’re the ratings sycophant “TeN PerCeNt” like your life depends on it. I just like to remind you WWE sycophants that you can talk about what ifs all you want; AEW is still beating NXT convincingly, lol. Continue trying to argue otherwise with your what ifs and your TeN PeRcEnT. Ratings are not subjective, you’re right.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Does anybody know if the anti aew faction which posts in this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts? Seems like they're all from same place - unfortunately it's my home country


I can only speak for myself but I am just one guy with one opinion. Cult03 and The Wood write differently as well so I'd hazard a guess we're just three Australian people who don't like all of AEW. Not hard to believe when there are millions of people in this country.



optikk sucks said:


> AEW is still beating NXT convincingly, lol.


70,000 people is a win but not a significant one. If AEW was on 1.4 million fans and NXT was on 600,000 that'd be significant.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can only speak for myself but I am just one guy with one opinion. Cult03 and The Wood write differently as well so I'd hazard a guess we're just three Australian people who don't like all of AEW. Not hard to believe when there are millions of people in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> 70,000 people is a win but not a significant one. If AEW was on 1.4 million fans and NXT was on 600,000 that'd be significant.


It’s significant enough in the key demo, which TK has said is the basis for their payment from TNT. But of course, NXT can continue targeting those boomers.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Hate to get kayfabe on you, but AJ Styles is a two-time WWE Champion, held it for over a year and main evented WrestleMania against The Undertaker this year. Daniel Bryan is something like a five-time World Champion in WWE -- enough to lose count -- and has worked with some of the top stars in the industry and main evented a WrestleMania. He's also been in featured matches for at least two more. Both have arguably been the most popular wrestler on the roster at some point in time (Daniel Bryan from 2012-2015, AJ from 2016-2017).
> 
> You are talking absolute nonsense. Finn has grown on me since I've seen more of his recent work, but he's perceived as being nowhere near Bryan or Styles, either by hardcore or whatever passes as a casual fan these days.
> 
> 
> 
> What is Tony Khan supposed to say when it's about the only thing they've truly got going for them? I'm sure Meltzer told him it was a good idea too, since Meltzer just cannot seem to divorce himself from the idea of taking TV ratings hyper-literally and applying 1990's metrics to them. Kids don't watch Supersoaker commercials on TV anymore. Ask anyone under the age of 50 what their favorite TV commercial is at the moment.
> 
> The idea of the key demo driving TV ratings is archaic. That's all I'm saying. Cable itself is becoming more and more archaic. So, hey, maybe there are some dinosaurs in a TNT boardroom that follow this shit. I know of plenty of people in TV who don't take them seriously _at all_. They understand that more and more content is shifting towards being on-the-go. Maybe if AEW gets played on the B/R Live app or whatever else TNT offers for streaming, there are ads that get good dollar there. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that the bread and butter for AEW would be their TV rights fees, which they didn't secure in a big way.
> 
> Do you also take Vince McMahon's word when he says something during an investor meeting?


why is the position on the ratings table done on key demo rather than total viewers if it isn’t important?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Does anybody know if the anti aew faction which posts in this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts? Seems like they're all from same place - unfortunately it's my home country


yah mate - i see the Aussie flag and i see red - and not just because of the cricket and rugby 

but yeah, all the same guy, i’m sure


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> What am I bragging about lol
> 
> @Cult03 said if AJ and Bryan were relegated, it would cream AEW in ratings. Now he’s changed his tone to “it would be a better show” lmao.
> 
> you’re the ratings sycophant “TeN PerCeNt” like your life depends on it. I just like to remind you WWE sycophants that you can talk about what ifs all you want; AEW is still beating NXT convincingly, lol. Continue trying to argue otherwise with your what ifs and your TeN PeRcEnT. Ratings are not subjective, you’re right.


You’re clearly reeling from getting caught saying some ridiculous shit. Hence the spiral into an attempt at farcical turnabout.

AJ and Bryan being relegated would help NXT cream AEW in the ratings. They appeal to more casual audiences as well as the hardcores. Eventually even AEW fans are going to jump if Styles and Bryan — who are better workers than everyone in AEW at this stage — are tearing it up every week. That’s just common sense. Do you really think people would rather watch Cody vs. Kazarian and Darby vs. Archer than Styles vs. Cole and Bryan vs. Balor? Have your ear closer to the ground. The biggest obstacle NXT has with the AEW fans is that it is technically WWE.

Cult03 very clearly stated that ratings don’t matter, nor do they matter to him, and that he cares about a good show. That’s got nothing to do with whether AJ and Bryan would boost ratings/make it a better show or not. Both are simultaneously true.

My life does not depend on AEW having successful ratings (thank god). The ten percent thing is what Nielsen themselves admit and what TV shows use to negotiate higher ad rates all the time. Look it up and tell me I’m lying.

Ratings are estimates based on who watches with a box. This is really simplified, but if five people with a box watch it, they might call it 2,000 people, based on where they live and how many people are reported to be in their family. But chances are these numbers are not on-point. Ever, really. The trends and like are probably more than likely consistent with reality, but do you really think 687k people exactly watched AEW last week?

And I saw Cult make a great point months ago. Say a young person visits their grandmother to watch AEW because she still has cable. They catch up for tea, they help them out moving some heavy boxes, then Nanna goes to bed early and young person watches Dynamite? Guess who that reports? Old lady loves her some Jericho.

Ratings are an indicator, but they are surprisingly unreliable. Also, what they mean is sometimes subjective. You can report Dynamite as a show with a fairly high key demo and call it a massive victory. Or you can compare it to Raw and SmackDown’s viewership and key demos (usually) and laugh in its face. Numbers can perform for you



optikk sucks said:


> It’s significant enough in the key demo, which TK has said is the basis for their payment from TNT. But of course, NXT can continue targeting those boomers.


TK also said that AEW would be a sports-based product. Do you trust Vince McMahon when he tells investors that house shows are doing great? 



Danielallen1410 said:


> why is the position on the ratings table done on key demo rather than total viewers if it isn’t important?


Isn’t the ratings table done by Entertainment Weekly or something like that? Maybe not something as pulpy as that, but the ratings tables I see people use come from websites that could be using old formats, are into news and gossip, and aren’t exactly the in-line to the mind of advertisers.

For example, I’m sure potential advertisers get a much more thorough break-down. They want to know if the older audience has grandkids or if they’re single and lonely. They want to know if the young people are cool, or whether they’re the misanthropic nerds that no one is going to follow the trends of. They want to know about ethnic backgrounds of viewers and whether or not a product appeals to an LGBT+ community. This is so they can work out whether or not to cater a product to them, or whether or not this audience can make a product cool. It’s not as simple as “AEW has this key demo; NXT has this one — let’s go with AEW.” NXT might appeal to audiences with more disposable income, or with a more diverse background. The kids who watch NXT might have Nike shoes while the Dynamite kids wear brandless loafers.

And, as I’ve said, cable is fairly archaic in general. I know very few people in my age demographic with access to it. I think ONE obsessed sports fan I know has it for that. Cable might be clinging to its own existence, but look at the numbers. How many people in that key demo watch AEW? 200k? As an advertising company, are you really going to hang your hat on the #2 wrestling promotion — #3 wrestling show (if that) — or are you going to pay for ad space on a fitness rewards ap or YouTube video of a stoned guy laughing at a cat?

TK is working you all. Meltzer is obsessed with ratings, AEW fans worship Meltzer — let’s run with what metrics he says are good. If Meltzer said average rainfall per annum was a measure of AEW’s success, TK would be echoing that too. What matters to AEW, what really matters, are those TV rights fees. It’s no coincidence a billionaire only gets interested when another billionaire gets $500 million per year for his shitty shows.

If Khan could get those numbers locked on, he wouldn’t care what the key demo to overall viewership is. Why would he? He’d be getting $500 million a year from those old fucks that still have cable.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> You’re clearly reeling from getting caught saying some ridiculous shit. Hence the spiral into an attempt at farcical turnabout.
> 
> AJ and Bryan being relegated would help NXT cream AEW in the ratings. They appeal to more casual audiences as well as the hardcores. Eventually even AEW fans are going to jump if Styles and Bryan — who are better workers than everyone in AEW at this stage — are tearing it up every week. That’s just common sense. Do you really think people would rather watch Cody vs. Kazarian and Darby vs. Archer than Styles vs. Cole and Bryan vs. Balor? Have your ear closer to the ground. The biggest obstacle NXT has with the AEW fans is that it is technically WWE.
> 
> Cult03 very clearly stated that ratings don’t matter, nor do they matter to him, and that he cares about a good show. That’s got nothing to do with whether AJ and Bryan would boost ratings/make it a better show or not. Both are simultaneously true.
> 
> My life does not depend on AEW having successful ratings (thank god). The ten percent thing is what Nielsen themselves admit and what TV shows use to negotiate higher ad rates all the time. Look it up and tell me I’m lying.
> 
> Ratings are estimates based on who watches with a box. This is really simplified, but if five people with a box watch it, they might call it 2,000 people, based on where they live and how many people are reported to be in their family. But chances are these numbers are not on-point. Ever, really. The trends and like are probably more than likely consistent with reality, but do you really think 687k people exactly watched AEW last week?
> 
> And I saw Cult make a great point months ago. Say a young person visits their grandmother to watch AEW because she still has cable. They catch up for tea, they help them out moving some heavy boxes, then Nanna goes to bed early and young person watches Dynamite? Guess who that reports? Old lady loves her some Jericho.
> 
> Ratings are an indicator, but they are surprisingly unreliable. Also, what they mean is sometimes subjective. You can report Dynamite as a show with a fairly high key demo and call it a massive victory. Or you can compare it to Raw and SmackDown’s viewership and key demos (usually) and laugh in its face. Numbers can perform for you
> 
> 
> 
> TK also said that AEW would be a sports-based product. Do you trust Vince McMahon when he tells investors that house shows are doing great?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn’t the ratings table done by Entertainment Weekly or something like that? Maybe not something as pulpy as that, but the ratings tables I see people use come from websites that could be using old formats, are into news and gossip, and aren’t exactly the in-line to the mind of advertisers.
> 
> For example, I’m sure potential advertisers get a much more thorough break-down. They want to know if the older audience has grandkids or if they’re single and lonely. They want to know if the young people are cool, or whether they’re the misanthropic nerds that no one is going to follow the trends of. They want to know about ethnic backgrounds of viewers and whether or not a product appeals to an LGBT+ community. This is so they can work out whether or not to cater a product to them, or whether or not this audience can make a product cool. It’s not as simple as “AEW has this key demo; NXT has this one — let’s go with AEW.” NXT might appeal to audiences with more disposable income, or with a more diverse background. The kids who watch NXT might have Nike shoes while the Dynamite kids wear brandless loafers.
> 
> And, as I’ve said, cable is fairly archaic in general. I know very few people in my age demographic with access to it. I think ONE obsessed sports fan I know has it for that. Cable might be clinging to its own existence, but look at the numbers. How many people in that key demo watch AEW? 200k? As an advertising company, are you really going to hang your hat on the #2 wrestling promotion — #3 wrestling show (if that) — or are you going to pay for ad space on a fitness rewards ap or YouTube video of a stoned guy laughing at a cat?
> 
> TK is working you all. Meltzer is obsessed with ratings, AEW fans worship Meltzer — let’s run with what metrics he says are good. If Meltzer said average rainfall per annum was a measure of AEW’s success, TK would be echoing that too. What matters to AEW, what really matters, are those TV rights fees. It’s no coincidence a billionaire only gets interested when another billionaire gets $500 million per year for his shitty shows.
> 
> If Khan could get those numbers locked on, he wouldn’t care what the key demo to overall viewership is. Why would he? He’d be getting $500 million a year from those old fucks that still have cable.


This is a very long post and demonstrates your need to be right. If you can’t simplify your arguments, it suggests that you’re wrong.
I didn’t read it in all honesty.
but it’s ok my deluded little friend, keep arguing against the facts with your what-ifs, x. 
so called main eventers cowering against VKM. Imagine if Lesnar did that 😂. You can’t, as he is main event talent. but in the case of DB and AJ, sure. I mean they did it last night. Midcarders at BEST


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> This is a very long post and demonstrates your need to be right. If you can’t simplify your arguments, it suggests that you’re wrong.
> I didn’t read it in all honesty.
> but it’s ok my deluded little friend, keep arguing against the facts with your what-ifs, x.
> so called main eventers cowering against VKM. Imagine if Lesnar did that 😂. You can’t, as he is main event talent. but in the case of DB and AJ, sure. I mean they did it last night. Midcarders at BEST


Okay, here it is nice and simple for you: 

* WWE stars get way more exposure than AEW stars, because like it or not, AEW has jockeyed themselves out of position. Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles are *main event* level talent that would enhance NXT both in terms of quality and exposure. Two sentences -- three including this. 

* AEW has never once, not _once_ "destroyed" NXT in the ratings. Its ratings are too small to "destroy" a channel where you watch paint dry, let alone something within a stone's throw. Can you handle six sentences?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You’re clearly reeling from getting caught saying some ridiculous shit. Hence the spiral into an attempt at farcical turnabout.
> 
> AJ and Bryan being relegated would help NXT cream AEW in the ratings. They appeal to more casual audiences as well as the hardcores. Eventually even AEW fans are going to jump if Styles and Bryan — who are better workers than everyone in AEW at this stage — are tearing it up every week. That’s just common sense. Do you really think people would rather watch Cody vs. Kazarian and Darby vs. Archer than Styles vs. Cole and Bryan vs. Balor? Have your ear closer to the ground. The biggest obstacle NXT has with the AEW fans is that it is technically WWE.
> 
> Cult03 very clearly stated that ratings don’t matter, nor do they matter to him, and that he cares about a good show. That’s got nothing to do with whether AJ and Bryan would boost ratings/make it a better show or not. Both are simultaneously true.
> 
> My life does not depend on AEW having successful ratings (thank god). The ten percent thing is what Nielsen themselves admit and what TV shows use to negotiate higher ad rates all the time. Look it up and tell me I’m lying.
> 
> Ratings are estimates based on who watches with a box. This is really simplified, but if five people with a box watch it, they might call it 2,000 people, based on where they live and how many people are reported to be in their family. But chances are these numbers are not on-point. Ever, really. The trends and like are probably more than likely consistent with reality, but do you really think 687k people exactly watched AEW last week?
> 
> And I saw Cult make a great point months ago. Say a young person visits their grandmother to watch AEW because she still has cable. They catch up for tea, they help them out moving some heavy boxes, then Nanna goes to bed early and young person watches Dynamite? Guess who that reports? Old lady loves her some Jericho.
> 
> Ratings are an indicator, but they are surprisingly unreliable. Also, what they mean is sometimes subjective. You can report Dynamite as a show with a fairly high key demo and call it a massive victory. Or you can compare it to Raw and SmackDown’s viewership and key demos (usually) and laugh in its face. Numbers can perform for you
> 
> 
> 
> TK also said that AEW would be a sports-based product. Do you trust Vince McMahon when he tells investors that house shows are doing great?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn’t the ratings table done by Entertainment Weekly or something like that? Maybe not something as pulpy as that, but the ratings tables I see people use come from websites that could be using old formats, are into news and gossip, and aren’t exactly the in-line to the mind of advertisers.
> 
> For example, I’m sure potential advertisers get a much more thorough break-down. They want to know if the older audience has grandkids or if they’re single and lonely. They want to know if the young people are cool, or whether they’re the misanthropic nerds that no one is going to follow the trends of. They want to know about ethnic backgrounds of viewers and whether or not a product appeals to an LGBT+ community. This is so they can work out whether or not to cater a product to them, or whether or not this audience can make a product cool. It’s not as simple as “AEW has this key demo; NXT has this one — let’s go with AEW.” NXT might appeal to audiences with more disposable income, or with a more diverse background. The kids who watch NXT might have Nike shoes while the Dynamite kids wear brandless loafers.
> 
> And, as I’ve said, cable is fairly archaic in general. I know very few people in my age demographic with access to it. I think ONE obsessed sports fan I know has it for that. Cable might be clinging to its own existence, but look at the numbers. How many people in that key demo watch AEW? 200k? As an advertising company, are you really going to hang your hat on the #2 wrestling promotion — #3 wrestling show (if that) — or are you going to pay for ad space on a fitness rewards ap or YouTube video of a stoned guy laughing at a cat?
> 
> TK is working you all. Meltzer is obsessed with ratings, AEW fans worship Meltzer — let’s run with what metrics he says are good. If Meltzer said average rainfall per annum was a measure of AEW’s success, TK would be echoing that too. What matters to AEW, what really matters, are those TV rights fees. It’s no coincidence a billionaire only gets interested when another billionaire gets $500 million per year for his shitty shows.
> 
> If Khan could get those numbers locked on, he wouldn’t care what the key demo to overall viewership is. Why would he? He’d be getting $500 million a year from those old fucks that still have cable.


Demos so irrelevant TV industry ranks shows by it!!


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Demos so irrelevant TV industry ranks shows by it!!


Who does? I just went to the Nielsen website and they don't. If you go to Nielsen, they actually seem more interested in listing them by overall rating and viewership and by Hispanic, black and same-gender couples. They tend to next prioritize by, weirdly enough, their social media score, in which Raw, SmackDown and NXT all do better than Dynamite. Are you talking about Showbuzz? I'm not sure what sort of official power in television Showbuzz is. Meltzer? Well, he wants them to look as good as possible. How often does he talk about the Raw demo when it is double what AEW's is? It only seems to come up when AEW beats them. What about SmackDown's key demo? I haven't checked it recently, but a few weeks ago it was a 0.7. It won the night in the key demo and it does better, statistically, in its Friday slot than AEW does in its -- according to Showbuzz. When does that come up when not blowing AEW for mild and qualified success? 

And, for the record, I'm not even saying that TV doesn't put unfair emphasis on the key demo even today. I'm just saying it's archaic. Young people *don't* watch TV like that anymore. They just don't. And everybody knows it. It wouldn't surprise me if an industry that _once_ hung their hat on that now won't talk about it. But as I said, 200k people in that key demo might rank them highly, but it's not a lot of pulling power if you are trying to wrangle advertisers. I wouldn't think so, anyway. I'd much rather reach young people through their smart devices.

Someone smart once said to me that we are one innovative idea away from TV advertising being dead forever. If Tony Khan wants to play that game, he can, but he better have a back-up. He's already getting fucked by Tivo and the death rattle of cable.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Who does? I just went to the Nielsen website and they don't. If you go to Nielsen, they actually seem more interested in listing them by overall rating and viewership and by Hispanic, black and same-gender couples. They tend to next prioritize by, weirdly enough, their social media score, in which Raw, SmackDown and NXT all do better than Dynamite. Are you talking about Showbuzz? I'm not sure what sort of official power in television Showbuzz is. Meltzer? Well, he wants them to look as good as possible. How often does he talk about the Raw demo when it is double what AEW's is? It only seems to come up when AEW beats them. What about SmackDown's key demo? I haven't checked it recently, but a few weeks ago it was a 0.7. It won the night in the key demo and it does better, statistically, in its Friday slot than AEW does in its -- according to Showbuzz. When does that come up when not blowing AEW for mild and qualified success?
> 
> And, for the record, I'm not even saying that TV doesn't put unfair emphasis on the key demo even today. I'm just saying it's archaic. Young people *don't* watch TV like that anymore. They just don't. And everybody knows it. It wouldn't surprise me if an industry that _once_ hung their hat on that now won't talk about it. But as I said, 200k people in that key demo might rank them highly, but it's not a lot of pulling power if you are trying to wrangle advertisers. I wouldn't think so, anyway. I'd much rather reach young people through their smart devices.
> 
> Someone smart once said to me that we are one innovative idea away from TV advertising being dead forever. If Tony Khan wants to play that game, he can, but he better have a back-up. He's already getting fucked by Tivo and the death rattle of cable.


You should email TV companies & advertisers & tell them they're going about things all wrong


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Okay, here it is nice and simple for you:
> 
> * WWE stars get way more exposure than AEW stars, because like it or not, AEW has jockeyed themselves out of position. Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles are *main event* level talent that would enhance NXT both in terms of quality and exposure. Two sentences -- three including this.
> 
> * AEW has never once, not _once_ "destroyed" NXT in the ratings. Its ratings are too small to "destroy" a channel where you watch paint dry, let alone something within a stone's throw. Can you handle six sentences?


Funny people calling for logical old school wrestling product want main event wwe talent to return to development league - yeah that makes sense


----------



## Danielallen1410

So basically according to the wood.
the ratings don’t matter but they do matter because if the ratings are poor then aew will go out of business but it doesn’t matter if aew get a good demo rating because the viewership is more important except when they are rankEd in order which is flawed because young people aren’t watching tv like that anymore but aew is poor because their viewership is low even though ratings don’t really mean anything because loads of people could be watching in other ways, but they aren’t watching aew in other ways, no chance of that because he knows for a fact that most people don’t watch it based on the ratings which he says are flawed.

is that about right?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Okay, here it is nice and simple for you:
> 
> * WWE stars get way more exposure than AEW stars, because like it or not, AEW has jockeyed themselves out of position. Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles are *main event* level talent that would enhance NXT both in terms of quality and exposure. Two sentences -- three including this.
> 
> * AEW has never once, not _once_ "destroyed" NXT in the ratings. Its ratings are too small to "destroy" a channel where you watch paint dry, let alone something within a stone's throw. Can you handle six sentences?


So let us discuss the actual problem with comparing ratings between NXT and AEW. NXT draws the boomer generation. AEW draws the younger generation. That’s a fact. That’s why AEW is much higher in the overall rankings for the evening.
However, let’s now compare the number of, let’s say a streaming service like Netflix.
24% of Netflix subscribers are between the ages of 18-24, 25% are 25-34, 19% are 35-44, 17% are 45-54 and 14% are 55+

This actually suggests that the competition for AEW is much higher than NXT. Sure, NXT is also competing against these other services, but their target audience aka boomers, are less likely to use these other services. They are more likely to watch cable TV, like NXT.

and as AEW draw a decent number of young people aka the target demo, they get a nice fat pay check from TNT.

and therefore, you can confidently say that AEW are doing much better than NXT. But of course, you WWE sycophants will attempt to argue otherwise.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Danielallen1410 said:


> So basically according to the wood.
> the ratings don’t matter but they do matter because if the ratings are poor then aew will go out of business but it doesn’t matter if aew get a good demo rating because the viewership is more important except when they are rankEd in order which is flawed because young people aren’t watching tv like that anymore but aew is poor because their viewership is low even though ratings don’t really mean anything because loads of people could be watching in other ways, but they aren’t watching aew in other ways, no chance of that because he knows for a fact that most people don’t watch it based on the ratings which he says are flawed.
> 
> is that about right?


hey, makes sense to me


----------



## The Wood

Whew, boy -- we got some big ones here. 



Pippen94 said:


> You should email TV companies & advertisers & tell them they're going about things all wrong


They don't do it the way you think they do, bud. The way you think they do it doesn't make sense. Nice retort, by the way. You completely blew past anything I actually said to lean on an assertion that I can tell you don't know anything about. Tell me how advertisers look at numbers. Please enlighten me. Do you really think they simple get an email with the key demo for a show and go "Buy! Buy! Buy!" without doing any further research?



Pippen94 said:


> Funny people calling for logical old school wrestling product want main event wwe talent to return to development league - yeah that makes sense


What's illogical about main event talent going and working with younger talent? How is younger talent supposed to get better if they don't have experienced talent to pick the brain of and work out with in the ring? Velveteen Dream (if his personal trouble doesn't turn out to be legit), would get so much more from working with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan than he would Kona Reeves. Veteran talent used to work with younger talent all the time in the "old-school wrestling" days. What the fuck even is this point? 



Danielallen1410 said:


> So basically according to the wood.
> the ratings don’t matter but they do matter because if the ratings are poor then aew will go out of business but it doesn’t matter if aew get a good demo rating because the viewership is more important except when they are rankEd in order which is flawed because young people aren’t watching tv like that anymore but aew is poor because their viewership is low even though ratings don’t really mean anything because loads of people could be watching in other ways, but they aren’t watching aew in other ways, no chance of that because he knows for a fact that most people don’t watch it based on the ratings which he says are flawed.
> 
> is that about right?


You approach something resembling cogent sense in the middle there. It is flawed to rank by key demo because young people don't watch TV like that anymore. Yeah, sure. The rest is just garbage you've muddled together from out of context posts. 

* My line has always been that the ratings don't matter *in the way Dave Meltzer and AEW fans assert they matter.* There is too much emphasis on the key demo in 2020. That's not to say a good key demo, comparatively, is great -- but it is more useful to supplement it with high viewership, which AEW doesn't do anywhere near as well at as people think. 

* The ratings are estimates. "Flawed" can be your word for it. If that's how you want to view ratings after discovering Santa Claus isn't real, then that's on you. We know how they are tabulated. We know that they are estimates. We know that every time a rating is reported it should have a "~" before it. 

* At the end of the day, the ratings matter as much as a network wants them to matter. If they take them as literally as Dave Meltzer and AEW fans do, then that's their prerogative. I wouldn't advice that, because it's like electing a President based on a telephone poll. Remember when Hillary Clinton was projected to win in 2016? Network executives still buy their beach homes and luxury cars based on how well their cable properties perform. How they measure that is up to them. Maybe they are getting more savvy and see social media, YouTube, streaming access and DVR recordings as some sort of opportunity for growth and exposure? Maybe they see it as a moneyless wall between them and their future in the media world? The ratings falling out the bottom for AEW would not be good. There is no way to say it is good. And if TNT thinks they can make more money with something else, they will. That simple. But that's not to say that a difference of 7k, or even 100k, between properties means shit. 



optikk sucks said:


> So let us discuss the actual problem with comparing ratings between NXT and AEW. NXT draws the boomer generation. AEW draws the younger generation. *That’s a fact.* That’s why AEW is much higher in the overall rankings for the evening.
> However, let’s now compare the number of, let’s say a streaming service like Netflix.
> 24% of Netflix subscribers are between the ages of 18-24, 25% are 25-34, 19% are 35-44, 17% are 45-54 and 14% are 55+
> 
> This actually suggests that the competition for AEW is much higher than NXT. Sure, NXT is also competing against these other services, but their target audience aka boomers, are less likely to use these other services. They are more likely to watch cable TV, like NXT.
> 
> and as AEW draw a decent number of young people aka the target demo, they get a nice fat pay check from TNT.
> 
> and therefore, you can confidently say that AEW are doing much better than NXT. But of course, you WWE sycophants will attempt to argue otherwise.


No it's not. That's you interpreting data the way you want to interpret it. Last week, AEW got a 0.28 in the 18-49. NXT got a 0.18. Those are not that fucking different. Even if everyone with cable TV was in that age demo, that's still only about 150k more people in that demo, lol. Considering they are gathered from 40,000 homes, you might have one nerdy 18-year-old with a box watching AEW over NXT to throw that rating. You also haven't factored in that NXT also airs around the world, and has been for a very long time, on a streaming service that it is not uncommon for hardcore wrestling fans to have. You then go on to discuss the youthful appeal of streaming services. Yeah, exactly. Where do you think most of this "younger generation" (which could be 48 fucking years old, for all you know) go for their NXT? The same place they do their Takeovers and the WWE PPVs they whinge about?


----------



## The Wood

I don't think it can be stressed enough just how close AEW and NXT are in terms of viewers. We're not talking Raw and Nitro where the difference was a few million estimated people. And when we're talking about these "younger people," we're probably talking tens of thousands _at best_. And that's with NXT also having an established presence on the WWE Network. I can't find data on how many people 18-49 have access to cable television.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Whew, boy -- we got some big ones here.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't do it the way you think they do, bud. The way you think they do it doesn't make sense. Nice retort, by the way. You completely blew past anything I actually said to lean on an assertion that I can tell you don't know anything about. Tell me how advertisers look at numbers. Please enlighten me. Do you really think they simple get an email with the key demo for a show and go "Buy! Buy! Buy!" without doing any further research?
> 
> 
> 
> What's illogical about main event talent going and working with younger talent? How is younger talent supposed to get better if they don't have experienced talent to pick the brain of and work out with in the ring? Velveteen Dream (if his personal trouble doesn't turn out to be legit), would get so much more from working with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan than he would Kona Reeves. Veteran talent used to work with younger talent all the time in the "old-school wrestling" days. What the fuck even is this point?
> 
> 
> 
> You approach something resembling cogent sense in the middle there. It is flawed to rank by key demo because young people don't watch TV like that anymore. Yeah, sure. The rest is just garbage you've muddled together from out of context posts.
> 
> * My line has always been that the ratings don't matter *in the way Dave Meltzer and AEW fans assert they matter.* There is too much emphasis on the key demo in 2020. That's not to say a good key demo, comparatively, is great -- but it is more useful to supplement it with high viewership, which AEW doesn't do anywhere near as well at as people think.
> 
> * The ratings are estimates. "Flawed" can be your word for it. If that's how you want to view ratings after discovering Santa Claus isn't real, then that's on you. We know how they are tabulated. We know that they are estimates. We know that every time a rating is reported it should have a "~" before it.
> 
> * At the end of the day, the ratings matter as much as a network wants them to matter. If they take them as literally as Dave Meltzer and AEW fans do, then that's their prerogative. I wouldn't advice that, because it's like electing a President based on a telephone poll. Remember when Hillary Clinton was projected to win in 2016? Network executives still buy their beach homes and luxury cars based on how well their cable properties perform. How they measure that is up to them. Maybe they are getting more savvy and see social media, YouTube, streaming access and DVR recordings as some sort of opportunity for growth and exposure? Maybe they see it as a moneyless wall between them and their future in the media world? The ratings falling out the bottom for AEW would not be good. There is no way to say it is good. And if TNT thinks they can make more money with something else, they will. That simple. But that's not to say that a difference of 7k, or even 100k, between properties means shit.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not. That's you interpreting data the way you want to interpret it. Last week, AEW got a 0.28 in the 18-49. NXT got a 0.18. Those are not that fucking different. Even if everyone with cable TV was in that age demo, that's still only about 150k more people in that demo, lol. Considering they are gathered from 40,000 homes, you might have one nerdy 18-year-old with a box watching AEW over NXT to throw that rating. You also haven't factored in that NXT also airs around the world, and has been for a very long time, on a streaming service that it is not uncommon for hardcore wrestling fans to have. You then go on to discuss the youthful appeal of streaming services. Yeah, exactly. Where do you think most of this "younger generation" (which could be 48 fucking years old, for all you know) go for their NXT? The same place they do their Takeovers and the WWE PPVs they whinge about?


At the end of the day, you’ll always want to be right, even after facts are presented. I mean you can continue arguing your point, but what you’re really doing is wasting your time making long posts that contradict the facts presented.
Maybe one day, NXT will succeed in drawing a much younger crowd. Only then your opinions may stand.
And if you consider that AEW is attempting to draw th younger crowd, it’s not only streaming services that they are competing with. It’s also social media nowadays, with 6ix9ine drawing over 2 million to his Instagram live. Not something NXT need to consider with their boomer crowd.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> At the end of the day, you’ll always want to be right, even after facts are presented. I mean you can continue arguing your point, but what you’re really doing is wasting your time making long posts that contradict the facts presented.
> Maybe one day, NXT will succeed in drawing a much younger crowd. Only then your opinions may stand.
> And if you consider that AEW is attempting to draw th younger crowd, it’s not only streaming services that they are competing with. It’s also social media nowadays, with 6ix9ine drawing over 2 million to his Instagram live. Not something NXT need to consider with their boomer crowd.


This is a complete avoidance of what I said. I don't need to be right. This is a massive projection you and even people not in the AEW apologist crowd, like bdon, make. Just because I am right it doesn't mean I need to be, haha. As I said, you presented no fakes. Just an incomplete assessment based on estimates. 

Do you dispute anything I said before, or are you just going to stick your head in the sand and resort to snark?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Funny people calling for logical old school wrestling product want main event wwe talent to return to development league - yeah that makes sense


I'm the one that made that argument and never said that. You guys will twist anything to try and make us look silly instead of arguing the point.

There was an AEW fan who made a pretty cringe post about AEW winning the ratings by 70,000 people and he was going wild about it. "Where are the guys who said AEW would fail now?!" and all that type of excitement. I legitimately had a chuckle when I read it because it was so ridiculous.

I simply pointed out to him that AEW should be smashing NXT every single week by a significant number of people. My argument was AEW has a guy who will no doubt be top 50 in the greatest of all time (Jericho), a number of former WWE World Champions (Moxley, Hager, Jericho), popular former WWE stars (Pac, Dustin, Gunn, Cody, Brodie, Hardy) mixed in with a fair few few WWE Hall Of Famers (Jake, Arn, Tully, JR) and some of the best free agents in the past five years (Omega, Bucks, MJF, Cabana, Daniels, Kaz)

As opposed to NXT which has one wrestler who will be in the top 50 of all time (Although only on the females list) (Charlotte), one former WWE World Champion (Finn), two popular WWE talents (Charlotte, Finn) and the rest are development guys and girls who were indy stars at best.

So simply put my argument was if WWE wanted to make NXT a legitimate third brand and throw some star power it's way they'd probably beat AEW every single week. AEW only beats NXT because NXT has a severe lack of star power. I'd argue that one WWE main event guy jumping to NXT would be enough for NXT to beat AEW every single week.

I never said AJ or Bryan should return to the development league. I am speaking from a strict hypothetical of NXT becoming a legitimate third brand.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Whew, boy -- we got some big ones here.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't do it the way you think they do, bud. The way you think they do it doesn't make sense. Nice retort, by the way. You completely blew past anything I actually said to lean on an assertion that I can tell you don't know anything about. Tell me how advertisers look at numbers. Please enlighten me. Do you really think they simple get an email with the key demo for a show and go "Buy! Buy! Buy!" without doing any further research?
> 
> 
> 
> What's illogical about main event talent going and working with younger talent? How is younger talent supposed to get better if they don't have experienced talent to pick the brain of and work out with in the ring? Velveteen Dream (if his personal trouble doesn't turn out to be legit), would get so much more from working with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan than he would Kona Reeves. Veteran talent used to work with younger talent all the time in the "old-school wrestling" days. What the fuck even is this point?
> 
> 
> 
> You approach something resembling cogent sense in the middle there. It is flawed to rank by key demo because young people don't watch TV like that anymore. Yeah, sure. The rest is just garbage you've muddled together from out of context posts.
> 
> * My line has always been that the ratings don't matter *in the way Dave Meltzer and AEW fans assert they matter.* There is too much emphasis on the key demo in 2020. That's not to say a good key demo, comparatively, is great -- but it is more useful to supplement it with high viewership, which AEW doesn't do anywhere near as well at as people think.
> 
> * The ratings are estimates. "Flawed" can be your word for it. If that's how you want to view ratings after discovering Santa Claus isn't real, then that's on you. We know how they are tabulated. We know that they are estimates. We know that every time a rating is reported it should have a "~" before it.
> 
> * At the end of the day, the ratings matter as much as a network wants them to matter. If they take them as literally as Dave Meltzer and AEW fans do, then that's their prerogative. I wouldn't advice that, because it's like electing a President based on a telephone poll. Remember when Hillary Clinton was projected to win in 2016? Network executives still buy their beach homes and luxury cars based on how well their cable properties perform. How they measure that is up to them. Maybe they are getting more savvy and see social media, YouTube, streaming access and DVR recordings as some sort of opportunity for growth and exposure? Maybe they see it as a moneyless wall between them and their future in the media world? The ratings falling out the bottom for AEW would not be good. There is no way to say it is good. And if TNT thinks they can make more money with something else, they will. That simple. But that's not to say that a difference of 7k, or even 100k, between properties means shit.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not. That's you interpreting data the way you want to interpret it. Last week, AEW got a 0.28 in the 18-49. NXT got a 0.18. Those are not that fucking different. Even if everyone with cable TV was in that age demo, that's still only about 150k more people in that demo, lol. Considering they are gathered from 40,000 homes, you might have one nerdy 18-year-old with a box watching AEW over NXT to throw that rating. You also haven't factored in that NXT also airs around the world, and has been for a very long time, on a streaming service that it is not uncommon for hardcore wrestling fans to have. You then go on to discuss the youthful appeal of streaming services. Yeah, exactly. Where do you think most of this "younger generation" (which could be 48 fucking years old, for all you know) go for their NXT? The same place they do their Takeovers and the WWE PPVs they whinge about?


Of course you use the streaming service to try and make a goddamn excuse for NXT, but when the FACTUAL numbers of Dynamite being watched by 1.2m people weekly in the DVR numbers, you call BS.

Can you ever admit to anything!?


----------



## Cult03

Are we allowed to use things that benefit NXT in our arguments? What about the fact that it's shown internationally. Because of that wouldn't NXT actually have far more viewers? The US market isn't the only one that matters and until AEW get's TV deals around the world they're actually losing the amount of viewers that watch? Would I be correct in saying this?


----------



## bdon

T


Cult03 said:


> Are we allowed to use things that benefit NXT in our arguments? What about the fact that it's shown internationally. Because of that wouldn't NXT actually have far more viewers? The US market isn't the only one that matters and until AEW get's TV deals around the world they're actually losing the amount of viewers that watch? Would I be correct in saying this?


Then should we also count the Fite TV, B/R Live, DVR, etc numbers for Dynamite, because I’m fine with these things. It was @The Wood, and maybe even you, who dismissed the DVR numbers as they went against the argument of “they’ve lost half of their audience!”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Are we allowed to use things that benefit NXT in our arguments? What about the fact that it's shown internationally. Because of that wouldn't NXT actually have far more viewers? The US market isn't the only one that matters and until AEW get's TV deals around the world they're actually losing the amount of viewers that watch? Would I be correct in saying this?


I've brought this up before but nobody ever responded to it. AEW airs in like 6-7 countries on TV whilst NXT has a heap more. NXT would be doing millions more internationally.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've brought this up before but nobody ever responded to it. AEW airs in like 6-7 countries on TV whilst NXT has a heap more. NXT would be doing millions more internationally.


Don’t know, don’t care.

I’m specifically discussing @The Wood now twisting his argument and sounding like the scared AEW sycophants who twist the numbers every damn week to make them say what they want them to say. He is the one who dismissed the ratings, the demos, the DVR numbers, and even the international PPV buys when they were used to prop AEW.

Take this discussion up with him.


----------



## bdon

And for the record, I really don’t care what happens on Wednesday’s, so long as the two grow the audience and one day kill Vince’s shit shows on Monday and Friday.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Of course you use the streaming service to try and make a goddamn excuse for NXT, but when the FACTUAL numbers of Dynamite being watched by 1.2m people weekly in the DVR numbers, you call BS.
> 
> Can you ever admit to anything!?


I've never denied the DVR numbers exist. I've just said that they've got nothing to do with AEW's value to TNT as live television or probably to advertisers. Once you DVR something you can skip the ads. It's a completely different argument to whether or not NXT's presence on the WWE Network affects its overall popularity. optikk is making the argument that NXT is for boomers because they don't get an estimated <150k less 18-49 viewers each week. I'm simply saying that I think you'd find a lot of people catch it on the WWE Network or on DVR, for that matter. That doesn't mean it's good for their overall value to the USA Network on that front. I'm sure USA would love it if WWE pulled the WWE Network version and drove more people to watch. Or at least put it on Peacock. The argument isn't inconsistent at all. 



bdon said:


> Then should we also count the Fite TV, B/R Live, DVR, etc numbers for Dynamite, because I’m fine with these things. It was @The Wood, and maybe even you, who dismissed the DVR numbers as they went against the argument of “they’ve lost half of their audience!”


They've lost half their live audience. I wonder what the DVR numbers were for the first Dynamite? I honestly don't know, but I'm willing to bet it pushed them over 1.4 million. So it may be strictly true to say that they've lost half their audience (speaking roughly, of course).

It depends what you are counting, by the way. The Fite TV, B/R Live, DVR, etc. numbers don't mean anything for AEW's success on TNT. They're different things. If you want to talk simply about eyeballs watching then that are valid to the discussion. What point are you trying to make? When talking about the WWE Network and NXT, I'm simply talking about eyeballs watching (although the Network is usually monetized, though I'm not sure if it is at the moment). It was in response to optikk making the narrow-visioned case that NXT is for boomers simply because of that demo rating. When I talk about AEW's ratings being kind of shitty for pro-wrestling, it's because they're trying to make money off live entertainment TV rights. 



bdon said:


> Don’t know, don’t care.
> 
> I’m specifically discussing @The Wood now twisting his argument and sounding like the scared AEW sycophants who twist the numbers every damn week to make them say what they want them to say. He is the one who dismissed the ratings, the demos, the DVR numbers, and even the international PPV buys when they were used to prop AEW.
> 
> Take this discussion up with him.


The only fresh point to discuss in here is the international PPV buys. I don't "dismiss" them. They're money for the company. I know Fite TV charges way less than $50 Australian for an AEW PPV. Double or Nothing was $20 last year. My gripe with the international PPV numbers is when they are conflated with the domestic buys in order to make AEW sound like a more successful product than it actually is. Reality is important. 

ECW settled in to getting ~99k buys per show. That was in the United States and probably Canada. Back then, you had to order PPV and watch it terrestrially. You couldn't sneak off to room and watch a show on your computer, laptop, smart phone or tablet. A kid couldn't sneak an ECW PPV with their pocket money. You had to have access to a PPV-enabled television at the right time in order to catch it live or a replay in the immediate future. Do you not see how it is unfair to compare that 99k people with the 120k that ordered AEW Double or Nothing from all over the world, at their convenience, with an almost certain outlet capable of watching it? Realistically, it's unfair to compare the domestic buys against each other, because times are so different now and there are fewer obstacles for modern fans when it comes to ordering a PPV. But it's actually insane to compare Double or Nothing's global buys with ECW's domestic ones. But Meltzer has no problem with it, because he wants AEW to look as good as possible. And people go along with that, and the perception becomes the reality. *That's* my issue.

I'm not the one with the spin. What about what I just said is unreasonable? You know what is the spin? Making a company that gets 75k domestic NA buys in 2019 sound more popular than a company that got 99k in 1999. That's back when people used to watch PPVs with each other too. So nice try on all that. 



bdon said:


> And for the record, I really don’t care what happens on Wednesday’s, so long as the two grow the audience and one day kill Vince’s shit shows on Monday and Friday.


Well then, you should really be on my side, because AEW has stunted their own growth and have give Vince carte blanche to do whatever he wants. Enjoy.


----------



## bdon

Totally fair explanation. 

I only take offense with what you say when you sound like you’re pulling the inverse of the AEW diehards. You elaborated, and your point makes sense.

As to the last one, I think Vince will hand most of that himself with just enough growth from AEW.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Totally fair explanation.
> 
> I only take offense with what you say when you sound like you’re pulling the inverse of the AEW diehards. You elaborated, and your point makes sense.
> 
> As to the last one, I think Vince will hand most of that himself with just enough growth from AEW.


I'm always happy to expand. If I don't make sense, always feel free to call me on shit, haha. 

I used to think that. I dunno. I just don't think AEW is good enough to grow, honestly. I know people are sick of WWE and want an alternative, but even all that will isn't going to make AEW that thing. I totally think Vince is beatable though. A lot of people don't think so, but I definitely do. All you need is money and quality.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I'm always happy to expand. If I don't make sense, always feel free to call me on shit, haha.
> 
> I used to think that. I dunno. I just don't think AEW is good enough to grow, honestly. I know people are sick of WWE and want an alternative, but even all that will isn't going to make AEW that thing. I totally think Vince is beatable though. A lot of people don't think so, but I definitely do. All you need is money and quality.


I seen glimpses pre-pandemic of a young Nitro. No, that doesn’t mean it would have changed the business, but I legitimately saw a group of guys beginning to really put things together as a team for the better of the show. From January 1st to the 1st empty arena show, they were getting better by the week it seemed.

Now...granted that doesn’t mean it was all my cup of tea or that you liked ANY of it, but I saw a company getting better.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I seen glimpses pre-pandemic of a young Nitro. No, that doesn’t mean it would have changed the business, but I legitimately saw a group of guys beginning to really put things together as a team for the better of the show. From January 1st to the 1st empty arena show, they were getting better by the week it seemed.
> 
> Now...granted that doesn’t mean it was all my cup of tea or that you liked ANY of it, but I saw a company getting better.


That’s fair enough, but you also think Omega wearing new gear makes him a genius, so you’re probably looking at things way more optimistically.


----------



## bdon

A change in gear is a way of subconsciously telling the viewer, “This match is different.”

I am still baffled that you can’t see this. Lol


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> T
> 
> 
> Then should we also count the Fite TV, B/R Live, DVR, etc numbers for Dynamite, because I’m fine with these things. It was @The Wood, and maybe even you, who dismissed the DVR numbers as they went against the argument of “they’ve lost half of their audience!”


I'd like to see those numbers actually. If we want to talk ratings it's really the overall number that counts, not how many viewers watch in America. Seems oddly specific.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> A change in gear is a way of subconsciously telling the viewer, “This match is different.”
> 
> I am still baffled that you can’t see this. Lol


I remember when Chavo Guerrero wore new gear for his WrestleMania 24 match with Kane. It lasted 11 seconds. Guys get new gear. They often debut it for a bigger match.


----------



## bdon

A bigger match. Exactly. Omega was winning those said bigger matches, ramping up the intensity.

You continue to believe those were not used specifically to make any changes to the character. And yet, you had multiple people in here saying exactly how much more important he felt with a different entrance and better looking gear.


----------



## Danielallen1410

optikk sucks said:


> At the end of the day, you’ll always want to be right, even after facts are presented. I mean you can continue arguing your point, but what you’re really doing is wasting your time making long posts that contradict the facts presented.
> Maybe one day, NXT will succeed in drawing a much younger crowd. Only then your opinions may stand.
> And if you consider that AEW is attempting to draw th younger crowd, it’s not only streaming services that they are competing with. It’s also social media nowadays, with 6ix9ine drawing over 2 million to his Instagram live. Not something NXT need to consider with their boomer crowd.


first line is bang on, bloke either acts totally different in real life or is single with no mates, you can’t possibly be so narrow minded and be able to form stable relationships.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> A bigger match. Exactly. Omega was winning those said bigger matches, ramping up the intensity.
> 
> You continue to believe those were not used specifically to make any changes to the character. And yet, you had multiple people in here saying exactly how much more important he felt with a different entrance and better looking gear.


You’re projecting _so hard_ onto this guy. You are making up subtleties that aren’t there. Omega doesn’t have the form or control to “ramp up” anything. Nothing was building. Nothing. Adam Page was getting over because he’s drunk and Omega was in a tag team. That’s what was different. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> first line is bang on, bloke either acts totally different in real life or is single with no mates, you can’t possibly be so narrow minded and be able to form stable relationships.


There we go. I’ve been waiting to see the full Garty come out. There is absolutely nothing of substance in this post. It’s a miserable attempt at a personal attack in order to dismiss a person instead of their arguments.

What about me is narrow-minded? That I don’t think the way you think? That sounds very narrow-minded to me.

The irony is I’m fairly certain most people coming through these parts can see through these trolling techniques, which, funnily enough, add validity to the things I say. I mean, if you had an argument you’d make it, right?


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> You’re projecting _so hard_ onto this guy. You are making up subtleties that aren’t there. Omega doesn’t have the form or control to “ramp up” anything. Nothing was building. Nothing. Adam Page was getting over because he’s drunk and Omega was in a tag team. That’s what was different.
> 
> 
> 
> There we go. I’ve been waiting to see the full Garty come out. There is absolutely nothing of substance in this post. It’s a miserable attempt at a personal attack in order to dismiss a person instead of their arguments.
> 
> What about me is narrow-minded? That I don’t think the way you think? That sounds very narrow-minded to me.
> 
> The irony is I’m fairly certain most people coming through these parts can see through these trolling techniques, which, funnily enough, add validity to the things I say. I mean, if you had an argument you’d make it, right?


I apologise for any personal insult.

the fact I resorted to that shows me that your frustrate me that much I’m just going to put you on ignore so I don’t have to read your highly frustrating posts, then I won’t be tempted to lower myself again.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> I apologise for any personal insult.
> 
> the fact I resorted to that shows me that your frustrate me that much I’m just going to put you on ignore so I don’t have to read your highly frustrating posts, then I won’t be tempted to lower myself again.


Cool. You could also just admit you don’t have an argument.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Danielallen1410 said:


> I apologise for any personal insult.
> 
> the fact I resorted to that shows me that your frustrate me that much I’m just going to put you on ignore so I don’t have to read your highly frustrating posts, then I won’t be tempted to lower myself again.


Just ignore him. He adds nothing to any conversation.


----------



## Danielallen1410

TKO Wrestling said:


> Just ignore him. He adds nothing to any conversation.


That’s what I’ve done and like I say I apologise to the forum.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Just ignore him. He adds nothing to any conversation.


Unlike this stellar post filled to the brim with insight. How about you respond to what I've actually said than just saying "ignore him." Sounds like you're looking for a way to avoid the truth.

What about what I've said about ratings is untrue? This is your big chance to add to the conversation, TKO.


----------



## IamMark

I'm thinking the Survivor Finale and UFC could affect both shows. I expect record lows.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Danielallen1410

Both shows way down. Wonder if that was because of ufc


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ufc chipped em.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Where's UFC Fight Night?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

EmbassyForever said:


> Where's UFC Fight Night?


It was a PPV no? They are not shown in on these reports.


----------



## RainmakerV2

UFC was on ESPN plus. A subscription channel. Basically like WWE network.


----------



## AEW_19




----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> Both shows way down. Wonder if that was because of ufc


I know some people on this forum prefered to watch ufc last night.

Now we will know if it was the ufc with the ratings of next week. If next week is at +700K then that means that the ufc had an impact but if it's little bit up (like a few thousands) then it wasn't the ufc


----------



## PavelGaborik

Uh oh here come the "Novelty has worn off AEW is dying" cringe crew. 

All in all they drew around what I expected. The UFC had a solid Fight Night card last night, undoubtedly it had an impact on both shows. I had fears they would dip below the 600k mark.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> I know some people on this forum prefered to watch ufc last night.
> 
> Now we will know if it was the ufc with the ratings of next week. If next week is at +700K then that means that the ufc had an impact but if it's little bit up (like a few thousands) then it wasn't the ufc


the show the week before was brilliant and finished with 800 odd thousand viewers, it’s really odd it was down this week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEW_19 said:


> View attachment 86386



Haha funny ass GIF


----------



## DaSlacker

General fluctuation + UFC. Wednesday Night Wars has settled at 1.3-1.4 million viewers in the empty arena era, collectively. UFC Fight Night shaved 100,000 or so fans off that.

Personally I feel AEW is too WWE Ruthless Aggression meets TNA Impact to set the ratings alight. From Cody's dramatic arrival/brawl with Archer to Cassidy/Marko to Broken Matt to spot based wrestling. I certainly prefer it to anything WWE produces and theoretically it should attract the 3 million viewers the McMahon family have driven away since 2007. But I guess people have seen it all before...


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> the show the week before was brilliant and finished with 800 odd thousand viewers, it’s really odd it was down this week.


Well the thing is people who watched wrestling for ths sport aspect will always favor the ufc over wrestling. Now it's the only Week the ufc will have a show the same day than AEW.


----------



## Danielallen1410

DaSlacker said:


> General fluctuation + UFC. Wednesday Night Wars has settled at 1.3-1.4 million viewers in the empty arena era, collectively. UFC Fight Night shaved 100,000 or so fans off that.
> 
> Personally I feel AEW is too WWE Ruthless Aggression meets TNA Impact to set the ratings alight. From Cody's dramatic arrival/brawl with Archer to Cassidy/Marko to Broken Matt to spot based wrestling. I certainly prefer it to anything WWE produces and theoretically it should attract the 3 million viewers the McMahon family have driven away since 2007. But I guess people have seen it all before...


yeah I agree with this


----------



## RiverFenix

Survivor had it's season finale last night - crowning the champion of champions or something like that. 

(Also AEW show was boring last night, it was basically on in the background with me).


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Survivor had it's season finale last night - crowning the champion of champions or something like that.
> 
> (Also AEW show was boring last night, it was basically on in the background with me).


I don't think the show of last night have something to do with the rating, we will see with the rating for each quarter but i'm pretty confident that AEW opened the show with less than 680K viewers.


----------



## Danielallen1410

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Survivor had it's season finale last night - crowning the champion of champions or something like that.
> 
> (Also AEW show was boring last night, it was basically on in the background with me).


im in uk and stayed up late for every show during the pandemic, I fell asleep just before Jericho and pineapple Pete. Wasn’t as good, just watched nxt, was much the same.


----------



## MoxAsylum

AEW losing them ratings. That’s what happens when you push goof ball acts like broken Matt


----------



## RapShepard

UFC probably didn't affect the ratings that much. 

1. It was a card you had to have ESPN+ to watch

2. Unless you're a really diehard MMA fan their was no real name value on the card. 

3. That said go watch the event, The main event was brutal


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> The main event was brutal


should've ended earlier. i felt bad watching those guys duke it out in an empty arena in all honesty.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> should've ended earlier. i felt bad watching those guys duke it out in an empty arena in all honesty.


I actually like being able to hear it better in this case. Though I do wonder if it has a psychological effect since you can't feed off the crowd. 

But yeah that fight should've really been stopped.


----------



## iarwain

I wonder what AEW's ratings would be if Vince had not moved NXT to the USA network to counter-program it?


----------



## Cult03

iarwain said:


> I wonder what AEW's ratings would be if Vince had not moved NXT to the USA network to counter-program it?


I wonder what NXT's ratings would be if Kahn had not put AEW on the same night NXT was already on?


----------



## iarwain

Cult03 said:


> I wonder what NXT's ratings would be if Kahn had not put AEW on the same night NXT was already on?


NXT was on the WWE Network, they don't have "ratings" in the same way.
What if Kahn had scheduled AEW opposite something like Broken Skull Sessions, would Vince have gotten offended over that?


----------



## rbl85

MoxAsylum said:


> AEW losing them ratings. That’s what happens when you push goof ball acts like broken Matt


Will you shut the f up for once…. like a fucking LGBT always bitching and crying.

What a sad life must have dude seriously….


----------



## Pippen94

Disappointing but if company in for long haul just needs to keep building for next ppv. 
Remember smackdown gets 2 million with Tamina in featured match - a lot of this has to with exposure. Takes time to build


----------



## rbl85

ufc got +700k buys for their show, that's pretty good.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Viewer and Demo down a bit but UFC probably took 50-120K. 15th is not bad but would like to see them back in the Top 5.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So they're still fluctuating. That's good IMO.


----------



## The Wood

PavelGaborik said:


> Uh oh here come the "Novelty has worn off AEW is dying" cringe crew.
> 
> All in all they drew around what I expected. The UFC had a solid Fight Night card last night, undoubtedly it had an impact on both shows. I had fears they would dip below the 600k mark.


I haven't even gone through the thread, but I'm just going to go ahead and ask you to quote someone who said that. If you can do it, kudos, but usually this stuff is completely made up by the people who say it.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> ufc got +700k buys for their show, that's pretty good.


That was for their Saturday PPV not Wednesdays ESPN+ show


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> That was for their Saturday PPV not Wednesdays ESPN+ show


Oh sorry.


----------



## rbl85

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Viewer and Demo down a bit but UFC probably took 50-120K. 15th is not bad but would like to see them back in the Top 5.


I can't se them going back in the top 5 without a crowd.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> I can't se them going back in the top 5 without a crowd.


When the news shows start dropping they will


----------



## rbl85

AEW rating by quarters :
- Q1 : 691K, the Cody brawl with Lance Archer and the beginning of Jurassic Express vs. Best Friends (so the people saying "oh they got a bad rating because the show was boring bad" need to find an other excuse"
-Q2 : 653K (loss of 38k), Best Friends vs. Jurassic Express.
-Q3 : 646K (loss of 7k but 10k gained in the 18-49 demo) Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida vs. Kris Statlander vs. Penelope Ford and the Pineapple Pete interview.
-Q4 : 673K (gain of 27k and 32k in 18-49) Kenny Omega & Matt Hardy vs. Ortiz & Santana
-Q5 : 649K (loss of 24K) the last minute or so of the tag match ( a lot of people tuned out after the match) and Taz with Darby Allin, the Nyla Rose/Shida angle and MJF vs. Lee Johnson.
-Q6 : 638k (loss of 11K) MJF promo, Chris Jericho vs. Pineapple Pete and the Inner Circle promo destroying Vanguard One.
-Q7 : 637K (loss of 1K) just hyping up Double or Nothing.
-Q8 : 644 k (gain of 7k) Brodie Lee vs. Christopher Daniels and the post-match brawl involving the Dark Order and Jon Moxley.

Conclusion :

the segments of MJF when he is alone always lose viewers
Omega and Hardy once again the draw of the show.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Oh sorry.


 No need to be, unless you watch UFC heavy it's kind of confusing lol. But they have 3 forms if events

1. UFC on ESPN which is free on ESPN and counts for ratings 

2. UFC on ESPN+ which can only be watched if you have ESPN's subscription service ESPN+ which is sort of like the network

3. UFC numbered PPVs which also can only be watched if you have ESPN's subscription service, but is also behind a $65 pay wall


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> the segments of MJF when he is alone always lose viewers


but there are three other segments during Q6.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> the segments of MJF when he is alone always lose viewers
> Omega and Hardy once again the draw of the show.


1. MJF had very little screen time in that quarter hour. He's also involved in a shitty filler feud with an irrelevant geek. I'm a huge fan of his, but even I'm not interested in him right now, because he's being wasted.

2. Matt Hardy drew. Omega is not a draw, as has already been proven many times. But to say that Matt Hardy is _again_ the draw of the show is false. He certainly wasn't last week. Moxley had the biggest quarter hour gain last week with some random unknown bum.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> 1. MJF had very little screen time in that quarter hour. He's also involved in a shitty filler feud with an irrelevant geek. I'm a huge fan of his, but even I'm not interested in him right now, because he's being wasted.
> 
> 2. Matt Hardy drew. Omega is not a draw, as has already been proven many times. But to say that Matt Hardy is _again_ the draw of the show is false. He certainly wasn't last week. Moxley had the biggest quarter hour gain last week with some random unknown bum.


Lately all of his segments gained viewers.

Even his baby oïl match gained viewers.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Lately all of his segments gained viewers.
> 
> Even his baby oïl match gained viewers.


What were the numbers for his singles matches against Sammy, Trent, and the other singles match he recently had?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

too small margins on those Qs to make any assumption

only one I can make is - 100k casuals did something else on Wed


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> What were the numbers for his singles matches against Sammy, Trent, and the other singles match he recently had?


Trent vs Omega was the opener of the show and did 703K
Omega vs Sammy gain 22K (it's the average between the 2 quarter it's was on)


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Trent vs Omega was the opener of the show and did 703K
> Omega vs Sammy gain 22K (it's the average between the 2 quarter it's was on)


What were the gains/losses of those two quarters?


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> What were the gains/losses of those two quarters?


The fist gain like 40K or Something and the other lost 18k (not 100% sure about the Numbers but it's more or less that)


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The fist gain like 40K or Something and the other lost 18k (not 100% sure about the Numbers but it's more or less that)


So it lost viewers throughout. Also, on that same episode, Matt Hardy's segment gained 51,000 viewers.

I don't think we need to debate who the draw of that tag team was. It should be pretty obvious.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> So it lost viewers throughout. Also, on that same episode, Matt Hardy's segment gained 51,000 viewers.
> 
> I don't think we need to debate who the draw of that tag team was. It should be pretty obvious.


Hardy was also with Jericho


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Hardy was also with Jericho


Hardy had a ton of buzz coming in. All you have to do is look at the social media and YouTube numbers. I don't like the guy - in fact, I find him very cringy - but to deny that he played a role in gaining viewers that segment seems silly.


----------



## bdon

Whether you want to admit it or not, Kenny’s segments have gained viewers in 2020. If I’m not mistaken, he has only lost viewers in 2 or 3 quarter hours.

Pretty sure that would place he and Moxley for a tie on quarter hours they’ve lost viewers.

Commence to crying.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Whether you want to admit it or not, Kenny’s segments have gained viewers in 2020. If I’m not mistaken, he has only lost viewers in 2 or 3 quarter hours.
> 
> Pretty sure that would place he and Moxley for a tie on quarter hours they’ve lost viewers.
> 
> Commence to crying.


He's lost viewers in all of his singles matches with the exception of Pac. What makes that even funnier is that Chuck Taylor gained more viewers with Pac than Kenny did.

Kenny is like Cody. He always needs bigger stars to carry him, except Cody is still a bigger deal.


----------



## bdon

You need to go back and check the ratings breakdowns.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> You need to go back and check the ratings breakdowns.


It was literally posted on the other page. He lost viewers against Sammy. He lost viewers in his most recent singles match (don't remember the name of his opponent.) The only singles match he gained viewers in was against Pac, in a feud that Pac had to carry through numerous promos and backstage segments. But Chuck Taylor gained more viewers against the exact same opponent.

Don't worry, Matt Hardy will carry him to another quarter that gains viewers, I'm sure. Hell, Jericho and Cody will help, too, now that they've set up this match for DON.


----------



## bdon

Cherry-picking must be lots of fun.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> It was literally posted on the other page. *He lost viewers against Sammy*. He lost viewers in his most recent singles match (don't remember the name of his opponent.) The only singles match he gained viewers in was against Pac, in a feud that Pac had to carry through numerous promos and backstage segments. But Chuck Taylor gained more viewers against the exact same opponent.
> 
> Don't worry, Matt Hardy will carry him to another quarter that gains viewers, I'm sure. Hell, Jericho and Cody will help, too, now that they've set up this match for DON.


Overall he gained viewers in this match. 

Don't spin this.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Overall he gained viewers in this match.
> 
> Don't spin this.


Nah. That match wasn't evenly split between the two quarter hours. It was mostly in Q7, which lost viewers. It only took up a couple of minutes of Q6. It took up the entirety of Q7.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Wood said:


> I haven't even gone through the thread, but I'm just going to go ahead and ask you to quote someone who said that. If you can do it, kudos, but usually this stuff is completely made up by the people who say it.


The hyperbole detection is weak with this one.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Wood said:


> I haven't even gone through the thread, but I'm just going to go ahead and ask you to quote someone who said that. If you can do it, kudos, but usually this stuff is completely made up by the people who say it.


From a tv property perspective, AEW is dying just like WWE is dying. The day is coming when neither will be on major cable or broadcast tv. You cant look at the sliding ratings and come to any other conclusion. Unless WWE and AEW want to give away their content, at some point the NBCU’s and Warners of the world aren’t going to pay for a product with bad demos and just a few 100 thousand people watching. But we’re talking a matter of a few years and not a matter of a few months. WWE will likely live on as a Disney product or something like that. AEW I’m not so sure about.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Nah. That match wasn't evenly split between the two quarter hours. It was mostly in Q7, which lost viewers. It only took up a couple of minutes of Q6. It took up the entirety of Q7.


And again you’re a fucking liar. Kenny made his entrance with 44:58 left. That means he had ALL of the Q6 numbers. The match ended with 19:22 left.

This is the second time you’ve fucking lied about the numbers. The last time we had this discussion, I went back and showed your lying ass that Cody’s segment didn’t start until 3 minutes left in the quarter hour, and you tried spinning that shit, too.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> And again you’re a fucking liar. Kenny made his entrance with 44:58 left. That means he had ALL of the Q6 numbers. The match ended with 19:22 left.
> 
> This is the second time you’ve fucking lied about the numbers. The last time we had this discussion, I went back and showed your lying ass that Cody’s segment didn’t start until 3 minutes left in the quarter hour, and you tried spinning that shit, too.


The match was only 20 minutes long, bud. It was on right before Q8, which went nearly the full 15 minutes.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> The match was only 20 minutes long, bud. It was on right before Q8, which went nearly the full 15 minutes.


I literally just pulled it up and watched it. Stop fucking lying.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I literally just pulled it up and watched it. Stop fucking lying.


Then why are we even debating it. If you just watched it, you know it was a 20 minute match.


----------



## bdon

I have it on my DVR. Kenny walked out with 46 minutes and change left on a 2 hour DVR. The match ended and went to commercial with 19 minutes and change left. Meaning he gained viewers for the entire fucking 6th quarter hour that he was in. The 7th quarter hour that he SHARED lost viewers.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I have it on my DVR. Kenny walked out with 46 minutes and change left on a 2 hour DVR. The match ended and went to commercial with 19 minutes and change left. Meaning he gained viewers for the entire fucking 6th quarter hour that he was in. The 7th quarter hour that he SHARED lost viewers.


The 7th quarter wasn't shared with anyone. That match took up all of Q7. The only one that was shared was Q6, which had 40K+ viewers that stuck around at the beginning of Q6 from the previous segment, but then tuned out during the match.


----------



## bdon

You’re fucking lying! 46 minutes and change left in the show, and Kenny walks out! That is the beginning of the 6th fucking hour! It ends and cuts to commercial with Kenny’s hand raised with 19 minutes and change left in the show, which is qtr hour #7.


----------



## bdon

Will someone shut this fucking liar up?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> You’re fucking lying! 46 minutes and change left in the show, and Kenny walks out! That is the beginning of the 6th fucking hour! It ends and cuts to commercial with Kenny’s hand raised with 19 minutes and change left in the show, which is qtr hour #7.


That's what I said. The match is the last thing in Q7. It took up that entire quarter. The final segment starts just as Q8 begins.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> *Nah. That match wasn't evenly split between the two quarter hours. It was mostly in Q7, which lost viewers*. It only took up a couple of minutes of Q6. It took up the entirety of Q7.


Fucking liar. He made his entrance at the tail end of Quarter 5. He was in ALL of quarter 6. He was on TV for less than 11 minutes of Quarter 7.

LIAR.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Fucking liar. He made his entrance at the tail end of Quarter 5. He was in ALL of quarter 6. He was on TV for less than 11 minutes of Quarter 7.
> 
> LIAR.


That's incorrect.

The match lost interest as it went on, and therefore, lost viewers. It is what it is.


----------



## bdon

Now be sure to go back and try editing your post, LIAR.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> View attachment 86427
> 
> 
> Now be sure to go back and try editing your post, LIAR.


Are you having a tough day, bud? Surely you can't be this mad just over Kenny losing viewers in a singles match. You should be used to it by now.

What else is bothering you?


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> That's incorrect.


Sammy made his entrance halfway through Quarter number 5 with roughly 50 minutes and 47 seconds left. Cuts to commercial break with him and the caricature drawings of celebrities. Back from commercial break, and we see Kenny’s entrance video beginning with 46 minutes and 10 seconds left.

Again. You’re a fucking liar.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Are you having a tough day, bud? Surely you can't be this mad just over Kenny losing viewers in a singles match. You should be used to it by now.
> 
> What else is bothering you?


No. I just hate liars when trying to have serious conversation, you fucking liar.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> No. I just hate liars when trying to have serious conversation, you fucking liar.


You denying facts is not my problem. That's on you.

The facts are what they are. The match lost interest as it went on, and thus, lost viewers.

It's not the end of the world. It happens, especially if you are Kenny Omega.

I'm sure you will live, though. It's not that big of a deal.


----------



## bdon

So, you’re now backing off that he was in all of quarter hour 7 after pretending you KNEW he was in all of it and only shared “a couple minutes of Q6”?

Goddamn you’re such a fucking liar.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> So, you’re now backing off that he was in all of quarter hour 7 after pretending you KNEW he was in all of it and only shared “a couple minutes of Q6”?
> 
> Goddamn you’re such a fucking liar.


I'm not backing off anything. Q7 featured nothing but that match, and it lost viewers.


----------



## bdon

Did you, or did you not claim they were only in “a couple minutes of Q6”, YFL?


----------



## bdon




----------



## rbl85

Omega music start playing at the 1:14:38 mark (so just before the start of the Q6) and the match end at the 1:40:50 mark.

The last 3-4 minutes of the Q7 are advertising.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Omega music start playing at the 1:14:38 mark (so just before the start of the Q6) and the match end at the 1:40:50 mark.
> 
> The last 3-4 minutes of the Q7 are advertising.


Commercials happen in every quarter, bud. That doesn't mean that he didn't take up all of Q7. That match was all that happened in Q7, and it lost viewers.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Omega music start playing at the 1:14:38 mark (so just before the start of the Q6) and the match end at the 1:40:50 mark.
> 
> The last 3-4 minutes of the Q7 are advertising.


Congratulations @AEWMoxley, you fucking liar.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Commercials happen in every quarter, bud. That doesn't mean that he didn't take up all of Q7. That match was all that happened in Q7.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Congratulations @AEWMoxley, you fucking liar.


Facts don't cease to exist just because they hurt your feelings. The facts are that the match lost interest and viewers.

Why you had a problem with that factual statement from the start is beyond me.


----------



## bdon

Factual statement.

POS LIAR


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> View attachment 86431
> *Factual statement.*
> 
> POS LIAR


The bolded is true. Your second statement is a contradiction of your first statement, and is incorrect, so I can only assume you are trolling me.


----------



## bdon

You lied about Q6. You fucking lied. Simple as that. 

I never said shit about Q7. I broke the goddamn match down to the minute, and you still argued until someone else called you on your lying fucking ways.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> You lied about Q6. You fucking lied. Simple as that.
> 
> I never said shit about Q7. I broke the goddamn match down to the minute, and you still argued until someone else called you on your lying fucking ways.


There was literally not one single lie told here. You just couldn't handle the fact of the matter.

Your trolling was somewhat amusing, though.


----------



## rbl85

bdon don't respond he knows he's wrong and he's trolling you to make you lose it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> bdon don't respond he knows he's wrong and he's trolling you to make you lose it.


Why would I try to do that?

bdon is a very calm and rational poster. He would never lose it.

He just happens to be wrong in this particular case. It's not a big deal.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Why would I try to do that?
> 
> bdon is a very calm and rational poster. He would never lose it.
> 
> He just happens to be wrong in this particular case. It's not a big deal.


Well in this case he's not wrong.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Well in this case he's not wrong.


I beg to differ, and so do the numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ClintDagger said:


> From a tv property perspective, AEW is dying just like WWE is dying. The day is coming when neither will be on major cable or broadcast tv. You cant look at the sliding ratings and come to any other conclusion. Unless WWE and AEW want to give away their content, at some point the NBCU’s and Warners of the world aren’t going to pay for a product with bad demos and just a few 100 thousand people watching. But we’re talking a matter of a few years and not a matter of a few months. WWE will likely live on as a Disney product or something like that. AEW I’m not so sure about.


them just starting, getting a tv deal and then getting a renewal proves you wrong right out of the gate

they just did what you said will die out in a couple years, when nobody thought it was possible

who is to say they won’t just.... y’know..... do it again


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

WWE and AEW aren’t going anywhere. They bring in a young customer base which TV networks are desperate for.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I beg to differ, and so do the numbers.


You said that the match was more during the Q7 than the Q6 and it's wrong.


----------



## Danielallen1410

At what point will tv ratings stop dictating how popular something is?

is it different in America to the uk because over here hardly anyone watches a tv show live, most watch in catch up. I’m pretty sure most of our popular tv shows don’t have huge live audience ratings, do companies not use catch up or dvr numbers?

it all seems very out of date to me.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, nothing is "drawing." Drawing means you get more people in, not fewer people. AEW going down to <700k means that no one is really drawing. Some people perform better than others, but that doesn't mean they are "drawing."


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> You said that the match was more during the Q7 than the Q6 and it's wrong.


The facts prove literally everything I said, though.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> The facts prove literally everything I said, though.


The match took 100% of the Q6 and 80% of the Q7.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The match took 100% of the Q6 and 80% of the Q7.


The match took 100% of Q7. 

Look, the facts are out there, and they are what they are. I can't conjure them up out of thin air or magically change them just to suit me. I'm not some sort of magician. That's @bdon 's profession.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> The match took 100% of Q7.
> 
> Look, the facts are out there, and they are what they are. I can't conjure them up out of thin air or magically change them just to suit me. I'm not some sort of magician. That's @bdon 's profession.


A quarter is 15 min so when a match take 11-12min of a quarter it don't take 100%.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> A quarter is 15 min so when a match take 11-12min of a quarter it don't take 100%.


Commercials happen in virtually every quarter. By your reasoning, nothing takes up 100% of a quarter.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Commercials happen in virtually every quarter. By your reasoning, nothing takes up 100% of a quarter.


Nope some quarters don't have commercials at all and some have a lot of commercials.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Nope some quarters don't have commercials at all and some have a lot of commercials.


That doesn't apply to either quarter being discussed.

You're grasping at straws.


----------



## bdon

I knew he wasn’t trolling, @rbl85 

He’s just a flat out fucking liar.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> That doesn't apply to either quarter being discussed.
> 
> You're grasping at straws.


Q6 didn't had a commercial while Q7 had one.

EDIT :Even better Q7 had 2 commercials, 
The first at 1h30min and the second at 1h42.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> I knew he wasn’t trolling, @rbl85
> 
> He’s just a flat out fucking liar.
> View attachment 86443


I don't see where any lies have been told here. Facts and numbers cannot lie.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Q6 didn't had a commercial while Q7 had one.


Both quarters had a commercial. But Q6 is not relevant to the discussion anyways, since the match only took up a couple of minutes in that quarter. Q7, which was entirely taken up by this contest, is what you want to focus on.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Both quarters had a commercial. But Q6 is not relevant to the discussion anyways, since the match only took up a couple of minutes in that quarter. Q7, which was entirely taken up by this contest, is what you want to focus on.


Q6 = 1h15 to 1H30

Kenny entrance started just before Q6 (1h14 and 36s) and no there wasn't any commercial in Q6


----------



## bdon

Fucking.

Liar.

Or...actually. I’m probably sitting here arguing with a child who doesn’t understand fractions yet.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Q6 = 1h15 to 1H30
> 
> Kenny entrance started just before Q6 (1h14 and 36s) and no there wasn't any commercial in Q6


You must be misremembering that episode.

We'll chock it up to stress due to the pandemic.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You must be misremembering that episode.
> 
> We'll chalk it up to stress due to the pandemic.


You're such a dishonest person….in fact i hope that's it dishonesty because otherwise it's worrying.

You can't even admit that you're wrong.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> You're such a dishonest person….
> 
> You can't even admit that you're wrong.


I'm always glad to admit that I'm wrong. It just hasn't happened yet because I'm literally always right.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm always glad to admit that I'm wrong. It just hasn't happened yet because I'm literally always right.


Well sadly for you, you stopped being right today.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Well sadly for you, you stopped being right today.


You've got an interesting interpretation of "being right."


----------



## bdon

Fucking children.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You've got an interesting interpretation of "being right."


Go watch the show one more time


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Go watch the show one more time


I've been looking for suggestions for some quarantine watching, but why this episode? It wasn't a particularly good one.

Any other suggestions? Preferably not wrestling related.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I've been looking for suggestions for some quarantine watching, but why this episode? It wasn't a particularly good one.
> 
> Any other suggestions? Preferably not wrestling related.


Well i don't really watch any show (if you put aside AEW, a bit of RAW with Asuka and a bit of NXT for Io)
I read a lot of manga or watch some anime


----------



## The Wood

The ratings are so fucking small it doesn’t even matter. I don’t even need to look at the quarters to tell you that AEW ain’t red hot. People will often tune in for something shit in a car-wreck sense. It doesn’t mean they are ever going to come back or order a PPV.

No one in AEW is setting the world on fire. Even if there was someone who could, everything else holds them back. People aren’t really paying attention to what is on each quarter to flip, so a lot of things are probably chance. That we know that certain things lose people is probably more telling than any growth.

Is anyone really sitting around going “Dude, you gotta check out AEW, RIGHT NOW!” And if they are, the person checking it out isn’t likely to be impressed — otherwise they would have been watching.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Well i don't really watch any show (if you put aside AEW, a bit of RAW with Asuka and a bit of NXT for Io)
> I read a lot of manga or watch some anime


Its funny - AEW is literally the ONLY Show I watch live

rest is all netflix, or amazon prime or crunchyroll or youtube


----------



## Danielallen1410

Aews PPV sales have been really good. I’m sure that’ll drop with double or nothing lo like any PPV During the pandemic.


----------



## Chairshot620

I like AEW, but I want to like it more. They just are not doing enough of the things that made this possible to begin with, I.e. Bullet Club and NJPW’s rise in the west. They need a more strong style presentation and more focus on the rules and rankings. Instead there is way too much comedy here and a lot of the in ring work, while flashy needs to be more solid, and less spotty, flashy, comedy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

Chairshot620 said:


> I like AEW, but I want to like it more. They just are not doing enough of the things that made this possible to begin with, I.e. Bullet Club and NJPW’s rise in the west. They need a more strong style presentation and more focus on the rules and rankings. Instead there is way too much comedy here and a lot of the in ring work, while flashy needs to be more solid, and less spotty, flashy, comedy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Basically agree. Not so much on the focus on Bullet Club and rankings, but a move towards the serious. And make no mistake about it, the lack of serious has caused major talent that could help them to skip on them.

Rey Mysterio and Bryan Danielson’s deals are coming up, but chances are they will re-sign with WWE because if they want to wrestle, they’ve actually got a better chance of getting the chance in WWE than AEW.


----------



## Chairshot620

For the rankings they either need to do away with them or explain them better.

For example when they a have triple threat or fatal four way to determine who gets a title shot, that just completely disregards the rankings. They need to explain why this at least apparently over-rides the regular ranks, during the commentary of the match, not online somewhere.

I don’t think they need to replicate Bullet Club, but I was just illustrating that Bullet Club helped NJPW rise in the west, and Cody, Kenny, and the Bucks were all part of Bullet Club before splitting off into the Elite and then AEW.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## USAUSA1

Wrestling should be shut down. Wwe,Aew,Impact and AAA looks ridiculous doing empty arena shows.


----------



## Aedubya

So does UFC


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> So does UFC


It's easier to wtch an ufc match without a crowd.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Aedubya said:


> So does UFC


It sounds as bad as wwe but aesthetically I didnt see much difference as the crowd is always dark anyway, plus wrestling feeds off reactions of the crowd, we’ve no idea how over Brodie Lee or Matt Hardy are as we’ve seen zero crowd reaction.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> At what point will tv ratings stop dictating how popular something is?
> 
> is it different in America to the uk because over here hardly anyone watches a tv show live, most watch in catch up. I’m pretty sure most of our popular tv shows don’t have huge live audience ratings, do companies not use catch up or dvr numbers?
> 
> it all seems very out of date to me.


There's a seperate list for dvr. But live is more important because of advertisement monet. Advertisements are pretty much useless in DVR because they won't be seen. That's not to say that TV companies don't care about DVR, it's just a show doing better live numbers is more important than a show doing great DVR numbers, unless it's doing something extravagant.


----------



## rbl85

For me the only thing interesting about dvr for a tv company is that it shows the potential viewership for a show.

For exemple if a show do 900K live and just 50K dvr then it show that there is not really room for improvement.
If a show does 900K live and do 600K dvr then that mean that 600K people are interested enough to dvr the show and it might be possible to make them watch the show live in the futur.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> There's a seperate list for dvr. But live is more important because of advertisement monet. Advertisements are pretty much useless in DVR because they won't be seen. That's not to say that TV companies don't care about DVR, it's just a show doing better live numbers is more important than a show doing great DVR numbers, unless it's doing something extravagant.


my point is that at some point tv money cannot be a companies main source of revenue. in 5 years even less people will watch live tv.

i Wonder how much aew are making from FITE tv subscriptions.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> my point is that at some point tv money cannot be a companies main source of revenue. in 5 years even less people will watch live tv.
> 
> i Wonder how much aew are making from FITE tv subscriptions.


TV most likely isn't going anywhere soon. I think streaming services are going to end up killing themselves with how many there are.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> my point is that at some point tv money cannot be a companies main source of revenue. in 5 years even less people will watch live tv.
> 
> i Wonder how much aew are making from FITE tv subscriptions.


I don't think TV will die for at least another 10-20 years. For many people that are 35-40 years old (Or older) TV is still considered very important and only the youth are rejecting it lately. I still know plenty of relatively young people (Middle aged mainly) that watch TV. I can't see TV dying off until those people die off.

Although I think if I was a billionaire media company owner I'd already be trying to move all my hottest shows onto an online streaming service right now anyway just to double my income...


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> For me the only thing interesting about dvr for a tv company is that it shows the potential viewership for a show.
> 
> For exemple if a show do 900K live and just 50K dvr then it show that there is not really room for improvement.
> If a show does 900K live and do 600K dvr then that mean that 600K people are interested enough to dvr the show and it might be possible to make them watch the show live in the futur.


That's a very rosy view of things and I can guarantee that's not the way that TV executives look at it. The idea is to get the most live viewers as possible. People DVRing your show isn't really useful for advertisers, nor does it say much about how urgent your entire show feels. To say it can be "improved" is an understatement. It needs to be fixed if you are supposed to be live entertainment. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think TV will die for at least another 10-20 years. For many people that are 35-40 years old (Or older) TV is still considered very important and only the youth are rejecting it lately. I still know plenty of relatively young people (Middle aged mainly) that watch TV. I can't see TV dying off until those people die off.
> 
> Although I think if I was a billionaire media company owner I'd already be trying to move all my hottest shows onto an online streaming service right now anyway just to double my income...


You're right, 100%. The best thing to do would be to work out how to play both sides.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Has it ever been announced how many FITE tv subscribers aew have?


----------



## The Wood

Nope. It wouldn't surprise me if there are a few hundred thousand worldwide. New Japan has 200k subscribers, don't they? But it's not something that is going to prop up their business on its own.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

rbl85 said:


> It's easier to wtch an ufc match without a crowd.


Not to me honestly. I don't wanna hear the coaches yelling instructions during the fight. I watched one where the fighter and the coaches were having a conversation in the middle of a fight while fighting. That shit takes me out. In wrestling it's different because it's fake.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## IamMark




----------



## rbl85

I think without special competition 700K will be more or less the rating for AEW during this no crowd era.

It's pretty depressing for NXT who was far from bad last night.


----------



## AEW_19

Good to see it climb back in to the 700k's again. Someone said that is the first time for a while that they have cracked the top ten for the demo. Is that true?


----------



## Chan Hung

700,000 is not shabby. It should be about the same the Wednesday after the ppv or maybe better.


----------



## RiverFenix

No UFC and no Survivor last night and no significant growth. Wrestling across the board is struggling with empty arenas. This number should concern AEW for DoN II. I'll be surprised by anything over 50K buys.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> No UFC and no Survivor last night and no significant growth. Wrestling across the board is struggling with empty arenas. This number should concern AEW for DoN II. I'll be surprised by anything over 50K buys.


You know a big part of AEW PPV buys come from outside of US.


----------



## BPG

rbl85 said:


> You know a big part of AEW PPV buys come from outside of US.


exactly, greetings from Poland


----------



## rbl85

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 50% of the PPV buys come from FiteTV (sucks that they never give the numbers)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just peeking in for my weekly gif to the regular naysayers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BPG said:


> exactly, greetings from Poland


yup, from South Africa (well, UK right now)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT needs to stop targeting boomers. They’re all dying off. Maybe they should sign Marko Stunt or something.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> NXT needs to stop targeting boomers. They’re all dying off. Maybe they should sign Marko Stunt or something.


i know you’re no crazy about Marko - but what did you think of his MJF match

personally i liked it - but I’m an AEW mark / i like 90% of their stuff


----------



## Erik.

Orange Cassidy. DAT DRAW


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i know you’re no crazy about Marko - but what did you think of his MJF match
> 
> personally i liked it - but I’m an AEW mark / i like 90% of their stuff


I liked it because it made MJF a stronger heel. Bullying Marko in the ring and thinking he’s the shit for beating up someone who isn’t really able to defend himself.


----------



## Aedubya

So is FiteTV the only way to watch this over this side of the pond?


----------



## Claro De Luna

Aedubya said:


> So is FiteTV the only way to watch this over this side of the pond?


No, you can watch on ITV4 and ITV Player.


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> So is FiteTV the only way to watch this over this side of the pond?


Claro was quicker


----------



## Claro De Luna

rbl85 said:


> You know a big part of AEW PPV buys come from outside of US.


They will he getting my 20 dollars this weekend, whatever that translates to in sterling.


----------



## llj

optikk sucks said:


> NXT needs to stop targeting boomers. They’re all dying off. Maybe they should sign Marko Stunt or something.


It's not like NXT is deliberately trying to be for old people. But I think it's clear NXT mostly benefits from being apart of the WWE brand, which skews older. The people who watch it are there because they've watched WWE all their life.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW was enjoyable for the most part and I am getting DON for sure. Viewers not great but #7 for the night is strong especially considering NXT wasn't even in the top 50 and drew a dismal .13


----------



## RapShepard

Good number going into the PPV, buyrate will be interesting


----------



## Seafort

optikk sucks said:


> NXT needs to stop targeting boomers. They’re all dying off. Maybe they should sign Marko Stunt or something.


NXT is a heel-dominated promotion, and will likely always be that way. Cole has held the belt for over a year now; when he loses it and goes to the main roster I expect a short baby-face reign followed by a lengthy reign of terror by Karrion. IMO, Paul Levesque saw what JCP did between 1985-1988 and thinks that a company can be booked in such a fashion indefinitely.

The problem with such a company is that it eventually burns out the fanbase, because there is no hope. It happened to the AWA with a near decade run of lengthy heel title reigns to close out the promotion. It happened in JCP when the company burned out the Chicago region after Starrcade 87. It happened in WCW with the company going back to Hogan as the titleholder in January 1999, when most of the fanbase had *no* interest in seeing another 1.5 year heel reign. It came close to burning out the RAW fanbase in 2002 - 2005 during the Reign of Terror. And it happened as well to TNA, with its dozen or so reigns by Jeff Jarrett.


----------



## iarwain

optikk sucks said:


> NXT needs to stop targeting boomers


Ouch, under 600k for NXT. 

I don't think NXT is intentionally targeting baby boomers, they just happen to be their audience for whatever reason. I don't really understand why they draw an older crowd, to be honest. I would think catering to the workrate marks would draw a younger audience.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> I think without special competition 700K will be more or less the rating for AEW during this no crowd era.
> 
> It's pretty depressing for NXT who was far from bad last night.


Wasn't this almost exactly what they were getting in the crowd era though?


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't this almost exactly what they were getting in the crowd era though?


Feels like they’ve averaged somewhere in the low 800s. Just going on memory.


----------



## Seafort

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't this almost exactly what they were getting in the crowd era though?


The way I see it, AEW reached a nadir with their last show of 2019. The initial buzz had worn off, and they were not selling out a number of the venues that they were at. 

After a two week break they came back with a bit of a soft reset and were trending upwards in January and February. I went to the Cedar Park, TX show and was blown away by the presentation - I left it thinking, "I'd forgotten how much I actually missed wrestling". This is after having gone to a WrestleMania in Dallas where the fans were told via the giant screen when to cheer and when to "whoo", and more recently a Smackdown and Royal Rumble. 

Part of that momentum is the buzz itself that an engaged fanbase makes as upsets take place, angles transpire, and new additions appear to the roster. Without a crowd, that buzz is lost and it's halted AEW's momentum. They're going to have to work even harder to maintain that 700K until fans return.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Feels like they’ve averaged somewhere in the low 800s. Just going on memory.


Since the end of Jan the pattern seems to be the ratings to up one week, down the next.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Another issue AEW is going to have about a year from now is the lack of star power. Jericho is already starting to lose interest with the majority of the fans and Moxley will need to take a break from the top at some point meaning they'll be severely lacking star power up top.

WWE might not release any top stars forcing AEW to create their own but AEW doesn't have a big enough audience to legitimately make guys stars so it's double negative.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Chip Chipperson said:


> Another issue AEW is going to have about a year from now is the lack of star power. Jericho is already starting to lose interest with the majority of the fans and Moxley will need to take a break from the top at some point meaning they'll be severely lacking star power up top.
> 
> WWE might not release any top stars forcing AEW to create their own but AEW doesn't have a big enough audience to legitimately make guys stars so it's double negative.


When WWE themselves don't have any stars(Roman gone, Seth might go, and not that he is that big of a 'star' or 'draw' to begin with), and rely on AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Randy Orton who are well in their 40s and have a couple of years left at best, notwithstanding bringing back legends like Taker or Edge, what chance does AEW have?

I can't see their crop of talent, the likes of Young Bucks, Jake Hager, Marko Stunt, MJF etc. ever being "stars" or huge draws. Not even Brodie Lee.

They do have Kenny Omega, PAC and Hangman Page though. I see those three being the cornerstone of their mainevent. Too bad AEW sucks at booking people in the right storylines/feuds and right place on the card.

I'd have preferred a solid, adult-oriented show where by now, PAC, Omega, and Page were having triple threats for the AEW title, rather than this joke of a feud between Moxley and Brodie Lee.

AEW went wrong right from the beginning, their very inaugural champion was the wrong choice.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263663679771275264

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cult03

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263663679771275264
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because men decided to watch at their girlfriends house or something. The entire concept of being able to predict who watches is flawed because nobody knows who is actually watching on what. I always watched wrestling at my grandparents house when I was younger


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

iarwain said:


> Ouch, under 600k for NXT.
> 
> I don't think NXT is intentionally targeting baby boomers, they just happen to be their audience for whatever reason. I don't really understand why they draw an older crowd, to be honest. I would think catering to the workrate marks would draw a younger audience.


Workrate marks are definitely older because they are able to reminisce about wrestling when it was all about athleticism and workrate. Think back to the territory days.
Younger demos have grown up on attitude era, ruthless aggression and the Cena Era. Workrate was not the main focus.

NXT also suffers from WWE having saturated their fans with 5 hours of content from raw and sd. They don’t want to watch another 2 hours of the product. Imagine a product taking 7 hours per week of your life. I mean that’s ridiculous. 2 hours for me is just about manageable


----------



## rbl85

So the segment with the most viewers this weeks was the Hardy vs Sammy (+ brawl)

Also the women tag match actually did very well.

Also the vignettes that so much on this forum like are really not doing good.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just peeking in for my weekly gif to the regular naysayers


Dr. Cox would not support AEW. He’d like a gritty, Mid-South presentation he could buy into. AEW fanboys need Doug calling their dad. 

Snowpiercer just got 1.94 million viewers. Whoops, so much for being in a different era.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Seafort said:


> NXT is a heel-dominated promotion, and will likely always be that way. Cole has held the belt for over a year now; when he loses it and goes to the main roster I expect a short baby-face reign followed by a lengthy reign of terror by Karrion. IMO, Paul Levesque saw what JCP did between 1985-1988 and thinks that a company can be booked in such a fashion indefinitely.
> 
> The problem with such a company is that it eventually burns out the fanbase, because there is no hope. It happened to the AWA with a near decade run of lengthy heel title reigns to close out the promotion. It happened in JCP when the company burned out the Chicago region after Starrcade 87. It happened in WCW with the company going back to Hogan as the titleholder in January 1999, when most of the fanbase had *no* interest in seeing another 1.5 year heel reign. It came close to burning out the RAW fanbase in 2002 - 2005 during the Reign of Terror. And it happened as well to TNA, with its dozen or so reigns by Jeff Jarrett.



Do wut lol. Cole isnt a heel to the NXT fanbase. Hes the coolest guy in the room to most of them. The problem with NXT has nothing to do with heels or faces, its the fact that the Undisupted Era and Ciampa and Gargano have completely suffocated the main event scene for 2 years and theres no reason to watch. Its the main reason I stopped watching. Id take a month off and try to watch it again, and oh, Ciampa and Gargano are still in a love affair, and Cole is still squeaking out wins with UE help. No thanks. 2 months later, same shit. 

Hell. Wasnt UE celebrating the fact theyve been together in NXT for 1000 days? 1000 days in whats supposed to be a developmental brand? How fucking nerdy can you get? I mean God damn, Strong just beat Lumis clean on Wednesday. In 2020. Why? Fuck if I know why. They have a chance to turn the direction of the brand around on June 7th. We will see what they do. They can go out and make guys like Kross and Lee and Priest and Lumis, or they can keep going with the same shit.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

See you guys in August 😊


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> See you guys in August 😊


I love that the AEW fans suddenly care about demographics when less than a year ago everyone was predicting they'd be competing with WWE's overall rating within a year or two.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love that the AEW fans suddenly care about demographics when less than a year ago everyone was predicting they'd be competing with WWE's overall rating within a year or two.


i dont remember saying this, chip. good try with your agenda, though.

i expected a regular 1 million by the end of this year.

just an fyi, not all aew fans have the same ideas about things. that must shock you.


----------



## rbl85

Optikk i think we could brag about this graphic if it was on upward curb.

It's like saying "yeah we're all going to be in the same shitty situation"


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> i dont remember saying this, chip. good try with your agenda, though.
> 
> i expected a regular 1 million by the end of this year.
> 
> just an fyi, not all aew fans have the same ideas about things. that must shock you.


Never said you specifically did but the goal posts keep getting moved by the AEW fans.

When the TNT deal was announced it was "I could see AEW doing 1.5 million people regularly and competing with the WWE in a year!". I recall reading some saying they'd be beating WWE within a year or two.

Then the debut occurs and they do a 1.4 million rating and it quickly becomes "AEW will be killing WWE dead within a year" 

Then they lost half a million viewers which turned into "Oh well AEW are killing NXT which is great!"

Then AEW lost a couple hundred thousand or so viewers and it became "Oh well the ratings dropped because of COVID-19 and half the roster is gone"

Now it's "AEW is winning this one demographic out of 6 so that's all we're going to focus on!"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Never said you specifically did but the goal posts keep getting moved by the AEW fans.
> 
> When the TNT deal was announced it was "I could see AEW doing 1.5 million people regularly and competing with the WWE in a year!". I recall reading some saying they'd be beating WWE within a year or two.
> 
> Then the debut occurs and they do a 1.4 million rating and it quickly becomes "AEW will be killing WWE dead within a year"
> 
> Then they lost half a million viewers which turned into "Oh well AEW are killing NXT which is great!"
> 
> Then AEW lost a couple hundred thousand or so viewers and it became "Oh well the ratings dropped because of COVID-19 and half the roster is gone"
> 
> Now it's "AEW is winning this one demographic out of 6 so that's all we're going to focus on!"


technically they may actually be competing with WWE's overall viewers very soon, based on RAW/SD trends. But that's because WWE aren't able to stay consistent - which is a goddamn shame really, because they're really trying now.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I think aew could be competing with wwe viewership in a year or so...... I think aew will gain viewers and wwe will continue to lose.

i can see both companies being on about 1 million viewers per episode by xmas 2021.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> I think aew could be competing with wwe viewership in a year or so...... I think aew will gain viewers and wwe will continue to lose.


Won't happen. WCW literally needed one of the hottest angles in wrestling, a main event packed with worldwide stars and an entire midcard of future stars to consistently beat WWE for the short time they did.

AEW lead by Cody and Tony Khan won't be beating WWE ever. NXT is the best they can do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> See you guys in August 😊


woooof! That is gonna be interesting going forward


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Won't happen. WCW literally needed one of the hottest angles in wrestling, a main event packed with worldwide stars and an entire midcard of future stars to consistently beat WWE for the short time they did.
> 
> AEW lead by Cody and Tony Khan won't be beating WWE ever. NXT is the best they can do.


and as I alluded to, I don’t think it’ll be aew necessarily beating wwe, it’ll be wwe beating themselves.
pre pandemic aew were averaging between 700-900k viewers, wwe was already going downwards compared to previous years.
it’s isn’t inconceivable that by xmas 2021 aew could have between 900k -1.1mIllion viewers and wwe to be down to 1.1-1.3 million. 

aew will never get into big numbers, no wrestling company ever will, as long as they exist as an alternative then I’m cool with that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Optikk i think we could brag about this graphic if it was on upward curb.
> 
> It's like saying "yeah we're all going to be in the same shitty situation"


no bragging at all. but this place will be an absolute shitstorm. i've always said the current idea of pro-wrestling is out-dated and this graph is showing it.

realistically, WWE will stabilise at their most hardcore of viewers and i don't think it's as bad as the line of best fit suggests. 

(this is from @wrestlenomics twitter btw)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I don‘t recon the line will happen, but it will be interesting times if it does


----------



## Geeee

I really feel bad for HHH. He had the keys to the kingdom in his hands but his vision of wrestling doesn't seem to be translating to a TV audience.

I was honestly looking forward to him taking over WWE at some point but I doubt that is going to happen.

I wonder if "real sports" coming back will help pro wrestling. Could get people thinking it's okay to watch things other than the news?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> i dont remember saying this, chip. good try with your agenda, though.
> 
> i expected a regular 1 million by the end of this year.
> 
> just an fyi, not all aew fans have the same ideas about things. that must shock you.


Right! I routinely say that it won’t be a race until 2027-30ish


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Won't happen. WCW literally needed one of the hottest angles in wrestling, a main event packed with worldwide stars and an entire midcard of future stars to consistently beat WWE for the short time they did.
> 
> AEW lead by Cody and Tony Khan won't be beating WWE ever. NXT is the best they can do.


Tony Khan is the reason that it will eventually happen...But it will be 7 more years or so. Takes time.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Right! I routinely say that it won’t be a race until 2027-30ish


it will be a race soon IMO because WWE is just doing so bad

and if you think about it this way:

$265 million per year for Raw, average viewership of 2,104,250 viewers for this year. and ratings are only getting lower - USA are paying approx $125 per viewer.
$205 million per year for SmackDown, average viewership of 2,378,631 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower - Fox are paying approx $85 per viewer.
$45 million per year for Dynamite,average viewership of 811,0904 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower (although they are a TON more stable than RAW/sd) - TNT are paying approx $55 per viewer

What seems more cost effective to you?

WWE gotta be shitting themselves when their network deals are up. USA and Fox have absolutely overpaid. You also gotta consider that Fox have their chat show for wwe - they're spending money there as well. I reckon any TV exec and their accountant gotta be looking at this and thinking they'd rather have AEW in all honesty.


----------



## Prosper

Good number from AEW. One could naturally assume that next week's post-DON fallout show will draw even higher, considering that we are about to get a crazy-ass show tomorrow. Hopefully they can get their numbers up to a consistent 800k by summer. 

Another drop for NXT, damn. Its not a terrible product, the problem with NXT is the constant over-exposure of Charlotte and the Undisputed Era. No one gives a shit. If they had pushed Bianca Belair and freshened up the main event scene, things would be better. And they are STILL running with no crowd noise. Not even as little as 10 people, 15 feet apart.

As far as AEW catching up to the main roster, that is an inevitability. WWE is hurting themselves with their content and pretty much allowing AEW to close the distance. They won't beat RAW on a weekly basis, but by Winter 2021, I can see AEW doing a consistent 1.3 - 1.4 eventually while RAW stays in the 1.6 - 1.8 range, which is quite sad.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> it will be a race soon IMO because WWE is just doing so bad
> 
> and if you think about it this way:
> 
> $265 million per year for Raw, average viewership of 2,104,250 viewers for this year. and ratings are only getting lower - USA are paying approx $125 per viewer.
> $205 million per year for SmackDown, average viewership of 2,378,631 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower - Fox are paying approx $85 per viewer.
> $45 million per year for Dynamite,average viewership of 811,0904 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower (although they are a TON more stable than RAW/sd) - TNT are paying approx $55 per viewer
> 
> What seems more cost effective to you?
> 
> WWE gotta be shitting themselves when their network deals are up. USA and Fox have absolutely overpaid. You also gotta consider that Fox have their chat show for wwe - they're spending money there as well. I reckon any TV exec and their accountant gotta be looking at this and thinking they'd rather have AEW in all honesty.


This attitude came up before WWE signed their deals too, and then they became richer than ever. You also have to consider the market research that goes into this sort of thing. WWE have worked hard, whether you appreciate it or not, to make their product palatable for advertisers. That was John Cena's greatest value to Vince McMahon, and why you can't just measure his success in terms of ratings and PPV buys. WWE are probably more sponsor-friendly than they've ever been, and might even be worth more now than they were in 2000, when sponsors would pull left and right (although others would sign up just for the sheer exposure). AEW is not a PG product. That hurts them. 

What sort of people watch each show too? SmackDown does way better in the "key demo" (a label I admittedly criticize) than Dynamite does. It's not even close. That's on FOX too. Are the young people watching FOX more likely to get a sneaker over if they're seen wearing it in public, or are the people watching AEW? What is the ethnic and socio-cultural background of the average viewer? I'm guessing that for both, it is very, very, very white. And I'm also going to guess that AEW is even whiter than WWE. 

Paying $55 for a viewer is a steal. But if those viewers are all considered "uncool," then what's that really worth? And since there less than 1 million of them -- of _all_ ages -- then you're working from a much smaller sample. Would an advertiser rather try and appeal to 300k young people or 800k young people? If you're only going to convert a certain fraction of those people, all things being equal (which they may not be), then paying top dollar for exposure to the much larger (and possibly more varied) SmackDown audience may be way more valuable than taking a punt and hoping to get 30k from AEW's.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> it will be a race soon IMO because WWE is just doing so bad
> 
> and if you think about it this way:
> 
> $265 million per year for Raw, average viewership of 2,104,250 viewers for this year. and ratings are only getting lower - USA are paying approx $125 per viewer.
> $205 million per year for SmackDown, average viewership of 2,378,631 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower - Fox are paying approx $85 per viewer.
> $45 million per year for Dynamite,average viewership of 811,0904 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower (although they are a TON more stable than RAW/sd) - TNT are paying approx $55 per viewer
> 
> What seems more cost effective to you?
> 
> WWE gotta be shitting themselves when their network deals are up. USA and Fox have absolutely overpaid. You also gotta consider that Fox have their chat show for wwe - they're spending money there as well. I reckon any TV exec and their accountant gotta be looking at this and thinking they'd rather have AEW in all honesty.


Wow, I’ve never seen it broken down like that, excellent.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't this almost exactly what they were getting in the crowd era though?


From 1/1 - 3/11, the last show with a crowd, they had averaged $862k viewers per show. So it’s down, not surprising to me because those Georgia tapings were brutal.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> From 1/1 - 3/11, the last show with a crowd, they had averaged $862k viewers per show. So it’s down, not surprising to me because those Georgia tapings were brutal.


You neglect to mention AEW ratings were generally dropping every week before the crowds were gone and have continued to do so.


----------



## RiverFenix

I liked some of the taped shows - I like the cinematic vignettes better than the in-ring promo's. I think Jake/Arn sitdown would have been much better pre-taped in a backstage setting. 

Without any fans, really nothing except wrestling should be done in-ring.


----------



## Seafort

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do wut lol. Cole isnt a heel to the NXT fanbase. Hes the coolest guy in the room to most of them. The problem with NXT has nothing to do with heels or faces, its the fact that the Undisupted Era and Ciampa and Gargano have completely suffocated the main event scene for 2 years and theres no reason to watch. Its the main reason I stopped watching. Id take a month off and try to watch it again, and oh, Ciampa and Gargano are still in a love affair, and Cole is still squeaking out wins with UE help. No thanks. 2 months later, same shit.
> 
> Hell. Wasnt UE celebrating the fact theyve been together in NXT for 1000 days? 1000 days in whats supposed to be a developmental brand? How fucking nerdy can you get? I mean God damn, Strong just beat Lumis clean on Wednesday. In 2020. Why? Fuck if I know why. They have a chance to turn the direction of the brand around on June 7th. We will see what they do. They can go out and make guys like Kross and Lee and Priest and Lumis, or they can keep going with the same shit.


I think we're both right. Yes, the NXT main event scene has been suffocated by UE, Gargano, and Ciampa. UE has been there for three years, Ciampa and Gargano for five years.

But when you say "Cole is still squeaking out wins with UE help", is that not by very nature the action of a Four Horsemen, nWo, Revolution heel faction? Even if it's cool to cheer heels - as it was in Greensboro for the Horsemen, and for the nWo in the initial months you can't take that on the road and mainstream it. Nor can you keep it from getting stale, which aligns with your point. 

That said, I don't think that Cole and the rest of the UE are long for NXT. I think all four get called up to RAW, and we get a repeat of what happened on NXT on RAW....i.e. a domination of the world title by Cole. Just like HHH dominated it for three years. So will Cole.

Fun fact...no babyface has held the RAW world championship for more than three months in *the last six years.*


----------



## RiverFenix

Cole is too small to be a factor on the main roster - it's why he's been left in NXT so long. Same with Gargano really.


----------



## DaSlacker

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I liked some of the taped shows - I like the cinematic vignettes better than the in-ring promo's. I think Jake/Arn sitdown would have been much better pre-taped in a backstage setting.
> 
> Without any fans, really nothing except wrestling should be done in-ring.


I think that segment would have worked brilliantly in a darkly lit room.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> You neglect to mention AEW ratings were generally dropping every week before the crowds were gone and have continued to do so.


No they've been pretty consistent actually pre-COVID. COVID started picking up steam in the U.S. in mid-March and they didn't start losing viewers due to empty arenas until early April. Since then they have hovered around the 700k mark on average. I don't think it'll be hard to get back up to 900k+ when crowds are back.

*January 1 Episode:* 967,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 8 Episode:* 947,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 15 Episode:* 940,000 viewers with a 0.38 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Bash at the Beach episode)
*January 22 Episode:* 871,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 29 Episode:* 828,000 viewers with a 0.34 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 5 Episode:* 928,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 12 Episode:* 817,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 19 Episode:* 893,000 viewers with a 0.31 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 26 Episode:* 865,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*March 4 Episode:* 906,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Revolution episode)
*March 11 Episode:* 766,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*March 18 Episode:* 932,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Limited crowd episode)
*March 25 Episode:* 819,000 viewers with a 0.34 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 1 Episode:* 685,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 8 Episode:* 692,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 15 Episode:* 683,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 22 Episode:* 731,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 29 Episode:* 693,000 viewers with a 0.27 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 6 Episode:* 732,000 viewers with a 0.28 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 13 Episode:* 654,000 viewers with a 0.23 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 20 Episode:* 701,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 27 Episode: TBA*


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> You neglect to mention AEW ratings were generally dropping every week before the crowds were gone and have continued to do so.


Actually that is false. 4 of t their last 6 shows were above the 861k average, 3 out of the last 4. And they were geared up for a huge Blood n Guts that many were saying had a shot at a million. They were definitely consistent that that was in the middle of Mania season where WWEs ratings are up. They had a lot of momentum no matter how much you want to discredit that.


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> it will be a race soon IMO because WWE is just doing so bad
> 
> and if you think about it this way:
> 
> $265 million per year for Raw, average viewership of 2,104,250 viewers for this year. and ratings are only getting lower - USA are paying approx $125 per viewer.
> $205 million per year for SmackDown, average viewership of 2,378,631 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower - Fox are paying approx $85 per viewer.
> $45 million per year for Dynamite,average viewership of 811,0904 viewers for the year; similarly, ratings are only getting lower (although they are a TON more stable than RAW/sd) - TNT are paying approx $55 per viewer
> 
> What seems more cost effective to you?
> 
> WWE gotta be shitting themselves when their network deals are up. USA and Fox have absolutely overpaid. You also gotta consider that Fox have their chat show for wwe - they're spending money there as well. I reckon any TV exec and their accountant gotta be looking at this and thinking they'd rather have AEW in all honesty.


Will be very interesting. AEW have definitely complicated matters.So many variables. 


FOX might get bored and drop SmackDown as it is mid range viewership and demo.
Amazon, Google, Disney, ViacomCBS and Netflix might fight it out in a bidding war for WWE's 7 hours of weekly TV, thus upping the price or keeping it consistent.
NBCUniversal might low ball their offer as they move away from cable TV and onto their streaming service.

In reality WWE's viewership could be far below 1.5 million in 2023. Only Viacom, NBC, WarnerMedia and FOX have ever shown any interest in wrestling. Ironically WWE are being paid 1 billion for Raw, but WWE are only worth so much because of the TV platform and money! Theoretically they (NBC) could drop WWE, which could hit their stock price badly. Rather than shelling out 1 billion every 5 years for a tired show, they could buy the whole shebang for 2 billion under those circumstances.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

To add to this:


DaSlacker said:


> Will be very interesting. AEW have definitely complicated matters.So many variables.
> 
> 
> FOX might get bored and drop SmackDown as it is mid range viewership and demo.
> Amazon, Google, Disney, ViacomCBS and Netflix might fight it out in a bidding war for WWE's 7 hours of weekly TV, thus upping the price or keeping it consistent.
> NBCUniversal might low ball their offer as they move away from cable TV and onto their streaming service.
> In reality WWE's viewership could be far below 1.5 million in 2023. Only Viacom, NBC, WarnerMedia and FOX have ever shown any interest in wrestling. Ironically WWE are being paid 1 billion for Raw, but WWE are only worth so much because of the TV platform and money! Theoretically they (NBC) could drop WWE, which could hit their stock price badly. Rather than shelling out 1 billion every 5 years for a tired show, they could buy the whole shebang for 2 billion under those circumstances.


it’s gonna be very interesting indeed.
The lack of interest with an viable alternative that right now is drawing half of the key demo (right now) for less than half of the money.

WWE will have to work a lot harder. I just don’t think their cheques will be as bloated. Which means they don’t be able to afford to keep every unused wrestler in payroll or sign every possible star to a bloated contract. Which means the playing field will equalise.
Wrestling may become quite interesting when contracts end.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> No they've been pretty consistent actually pre-COVID. COVID started picking up steam in the U.S. in mid-March and they didn't start losing viewers due to empty arenas until early April. Since then they have hovered around the 700k mark on average. I don't think it'll be hard to get back up to 900k+ when crowds are back.
> 
> *January 1 Episode:* 967,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *January 8 Episode:* 947,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *January 15 Episode:* 940,000 viewers with a 0.38 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Bash at the Beach episode)
> *January 22 Episode:* 871,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *January 29 Episode:* 828,000 viewers with a 0.34 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *February 5 Episode:* 928,000 viewers with a 0.36 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *February 12 Episode:* 817,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *February 19 Episode:* 893,000 viewers with a 0.31 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *February 26 Episode:* 865,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *March 4 Episode:* 906,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Revolution episode)
> *March 11 Episode:* 766,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *March 18 Episode:* 932,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Limited crowd episode)
> *March 25 Episode:* 819,000 viewers with a 0.34 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *April 1 Episode:* 685,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *April 8 Episode:* 692,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *April 15 Episode:* 683,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *April 22 Episode:* 731,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *April 29 Episode:* 693,000 viewers with a 0.27 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *May 6 Episode:* 732,000 viewers with a 0.28 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *May 13 Episode:* 654,000 viewers with a 0.23 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *May 20 Episode:* 701,000 viewers with a 0.26 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *May 27 Episode: TBA*


Yep, so if you take a look at 2019 it went from 1.4 million people in October to doing around 600-800 thousand quite frequently until January 1st.

January 1st things started picking up again but now AEW has dropped from nearly a million to a whole lot of 800,000's in March and even a 766,000 in March. Increased with the limited crowd episode before losing over 100,000 viewers and then proceeding to lose another 100,000+ viewers within a week. They have since hovered in the 6's with an occasional 7.

I don't know who you're expecting to bring back 200,000 viewers pretty much all their major stars are back on TV now. The May 6th episode had Chris Jericho wrestling on free TV and the in ring debut of Matt Hardy in a street fight plus a World Title match and the promise of surprises and only managed 732k people.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yep, so if you take a look at 2019 it went from 1.4 million people in October to doing around 600-800 thousand quite frequently until January 1st.
> 
> January 1st things started picking up again but now AEW has dropped from nearly a million to a whole lot of 800,000's in March and even a 766,000 in March. Increased with the limited crowd episode before losing over 100,000 viewers and then proceeding to lose another 100,000+ viewers within a week. They have since hovered in the 6's with an occasional 7.
> 
> I don't know who you're expecting to bring back 200,000 viewers pretty much all their major stars are back on TV now. The May 6th episode had Chris Jericho wrestling on free TV and the in ring debut of Matt Hardy in a street fight plus a World Title match and the promise of surprises and only managed 732k people.


Season premieres, slight resets etc can instigate a ratings bump. Examples are: debut on TNT, first episode of 2019, Smackdown on Fox debut, Raw Reunion etc.

The return of crowds will be a novelty.

Alot of out of work often misused wrestlers they could sign or bring in for a few dates. Not just recognized ones like Rusev, Ryder, EC3, Revival etc. New faces are always an easy way to drum up attention. Especially when the norm has been indie level (Joey, Havok, Chuck)

Never underestimate a well booked feud striking a chord with viewers. Cody//Moxley, Cody/Kenny, MJF/Moxley, Jericho/MJF etc yet to be explored.

Also possible TNT moves it to another night where it isn't in direct competition.


----------



## Seafort

optikk sucks said:


> no bragging at all. but this place will be an absolute shitstorm. i've always said the current idea of pro-wrestling is out-dated and this graph is showing it.
> 
> realistically, WWE will stabilise at their most hardcore of viewers and i don't think it's as bad as the line of best fit suggests.
> 
> (this is from @wrestlenomics twitter btw)


Their most hardcore viewership base might be equivalent to NXT's current numbers.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> Season premieres, slight resets etc can instigate a ratings bump. Examples are: debut on TNT, first episode of 2019, Smackdown on Fox debut, Raw Reunion etc.
> 
> The return of crowds will be a novelty.
> 
> Alot of out of work often misused wrestlers they could sign or bring in for a few dates. Not just recognized ones like Rusev, Ryder, EC3, Revival etc. New faces are always an easy way to drum up attention. Especially when the norm has been indie level (Joey, Havok, Chuck)
> 
> Never underestimate a well booked feud striking a chord with viewers. Cody//Moxley, Cody/Kenny, MJF/Moxley, Jericho/MJF etc yet to be explored.
> 
> Also possible TNT moves it to another night where it isn't in direct competition.


But that brings back the old RAW vs Nitro canard...what if WWE and USA simply move NXT to oppose it no matter what night that it is on?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> January 1st things started picking up again but now AEW has dropped from nearly a million to a whole lot of 800,000's in March and even a 766,000 in March. Increased with the limited crowd episode before losing over 100,000 viewers and then proceeding to lose another 100,000+ viewers within a week. They have since hovered in the 6's with an occasional 7.
> 
> I don't know who you're expecting to bring back 200,000 viewers pretty much all their major stars are back on TV now. The May 6th episode had Chris Jericho wrestling on free TV and the in ring debut of Matt Hardy in a street fight plus a World Title match and the promise of surprises and only managed 732k people.


The 766,000 was the day that the pandemic was announced. Week before, and after, both in the 900s.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Seafort said:


> Their most hardcore viewership base might be equivalent to NXT's current numbers.


Jeez could you imagine

I really hope it doesn’t get this bad. It is just bad for business and bad for the industry. I’d rather AEW moves up to WWE and not WWE moving down to AEW.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> You neglect to mention AEW ratings were generally dropping every week before the crowds were gone and have continued to do so.


No they weren’t. They were stabilising between 750 and 900


----------



## Seafort

optikk sucks said:


> Jeez could you imagine
> 
> I really hope it doesn’t get this bad. It is just bad for business and bad for the industry. I’d rather AEW moves up to WWE and not WWE moving down to AEW.


It's layered, I think.

I'll use an example:

Monday Night RAW: 2.1M average viewership prior to move to Performance Center

0.6M: Casual fans who have or are losing interest with current programming
0.5M: Strong fans, but a base that is at near-term risk of becoming disinterested with continued poor storylines and Perf C setting
0.5M: Very firm, longterm WWE fans, a base that will only very gradually diminish after months of bad programming coupled with Perf C setting
0.5M: Hardest core fanbase who will watch no matter what

All Elite Wrestling probably breaks out into similar segments, however its casual fan percentage is likely far smaller.

Also, I think you cannot underestimate how much just having a minute audience in attendance is helping AEW out right now. It's probably worth 10-15% of their current viewership right now.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Seafort said:


> It's layered, I think.
> 
> I'll use an example:
> 
> Monday Night RAW: 2.1M average viewership prior to move to Performance Center
> 
> 0.6M: Casual fans who have or are losing interest with current programming
> 0.5M: Strong fans, but a base that is at near-term risk of becoming disinterested with continued poor storylines and Perf C setting
> 0.5M: Very firm, longterm WWE fans, a base that will only very gradually diminish after months of bad programming coupled with Perf C setting
> 0.5M: Hardest core fanbase who will watch no matter what
> 
> All Elite Wrestling probably breaks out into similar segments, however its casual fan percentage is likely far smaller.
> 
> Also, I think you cannot underestimate how much just having a minute audience in attendance is helping AEW out right now. It's probably worth 10-15% of their current viewership right now.


fully agree with this, I think aews product isn’t suffering through lack of audience. I mean They lost viewers initially but since then their rating has been consistently in the 6-700k range whereas wwes main shows have carried on getting worse ratings week by week and I strongly believe this is due to how poor the shows are.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yep, so if you take a look at 2019 it went from 1.4 million people in October to doing around 600-800 thousand quite frequently until January 1st.
> 
> January 1st things started picking up again but now AEW has dropped from nearly a million to a whole lot of 800,000's in March and even a 766,000 in March. Increased with the limited crowd episode before losing over 100,000 viewers and then proceeding to lose another 100,000+ viewers within a week. They have since hovered in the 6's with an occasional 7.
> 
> I don't know who you're expecting to bring back 200,000 viewers pretty much all their major stars are back on TV now. The May 6th episode had Chris Jericho wrestling on free TV and the in ring debut of Matt Hardy in a street fight plus a World Title match and the promise of surprises and only managed 732k people.


people just aren’t watching wrestling at the moment because there is no hype to watch an event with no crowd, however when crowds are back the shows will be hyped up, both in wwe and aew, and will draw more viewers, probably not as much of a spike as the first dynamite but I’ll bet they will be closer to one million that 600k their first episode back on tv....then it’s up to them to put on a show to keep the viewers..... I think they’ll be around the 900k to million mark pretty much.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Will be very interesting. AEW have definitely complicated matters.So many variables.
> 
> 
> FOX might get bored and drop SmackDown as it is mid range viewership and demo.
> Amazon, Google, Disney, ViacomCBS and Netflix might fight it out in a bidding war for WWE's 7 hours of weekly TV, thus upping the price or keeping it consistent.
> NBCUniversal might low ball their offer as they move away from cable TV and onto their streaming service.
> In reality WWE's viewership could be far below 1.5 million in 2023. Only Viacom, NBC, WarnerMedia and FOX have ever shown any interest in wrestling. Ironically WWE are being paid 1 billion for Raw, but WWE are only worth so much because of the TV platform and money! Theoretically they (NBC) could drop WWE, which could hit their stock price badly. Rather than shelling out 1 billion every 5 years for a tired show, they could buy the whole shebang for 2 billion under those circumstances.


If WWE's viewership drops to 1.5 million, AEW will probably be at 400k. Warner will drop AEW before NBC drops Raw. Too many people are talking like me back when there was reason to have hope, haha. AEW is not a threat and cannot be at this point. They've done that to themselves. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Yep, so if you take a look at 2019 it went from 1.4 million people in October to doing around 600-800 thousand quite frequently until January 1st.
> 
> January 1st things started picking up again but now AEW has dropped from nearly a million to a whole lot of 800,000's in March and even a 766,000 in March. Increased with the limited crowd episode before losing over 100,000 viewers and then proceeding to lose another 100,000+ viewers within a week. They have since hovered in the 6's with an occasional 7.
> 
> I don't know who you're expecting to bring back 200,000 viewers pretty much all their major stars are back on TV now. The May 6th episode had Chris Jericho wrestling on free TV and the in ring debut of Matt Hardy in a street fight plus a World Title match and the promise of surprises and only managed 732k people.


Logic...hurting...



DaSlacker said:


> Season premieres, slight resets etc can instigate a ratings bump. Examples are: debut on TNT, first episode of 2019, Smackdown on Fox debut, Raw Reunion etc.
> 
> The return of crowds will be a novelty.
> 
> Alot of out of work often misused wrestlers they could sign or bring in for a few dates. Not just recognized ones like Rusev, Ryder, EC3, Revival etc. New faces are always an easy way to drum up attention. Especially when the norm has been indie level (Joey, Havok, Chuck)
> 
> Never underestimate a well booked feud striking a chord with viewers. Cody//Moxley, Cody/Kenny, MJF/Moxley, Jericho/MJF etc yet to be explored.
> 
> Also possible TNT moves it to another night where it isn't in direct competition.


When was the last well booked feud AEW did? Cody and Jericho? Was there another one? 



Danielallen1410 said:


> No they weren’t. They were stabilising between 750 and 900


Between 750 and 900 viewers is not stable, haha. There is a variance of 150k. That's like 20% of the audience. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> people just aren’t watching wrestling at the moment because there is no hype to watch an event with no crowd, however when crowds are back the shows will be hyped up, both in wwe and aew, and will draw more viewers, probably not as much of a spike as the first dynamite but I’ll bet they will be closer to one million that 600k their first episode back on tv....then it’s up to them to put on a show to keep the viewers..... I think they’ll be around the 900k to million mark pretty much.


People aren't watching wrestling because it is bad. Can AEW click their fingers and magically get good?


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> If WWE's viewership drops to 1.5 million, AEW will probably be at 400k. Warner will drop AEW before NBC drops Raw. Too many people are talking like me back when there was reason to have hope, haha. AEW is not a threat and cannot be at this point. They've done that to themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Logic...hurting...
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last well booked feud AEW did? Cody and Jericho? Was there another one?
> 
> 
> 
> Between 750 and 900 viewers is not stable, haha. There is a variance of 150k. That's like 20% of the audience.
> 
> 
> 
> People aren't watching wrestling because it is bad. Can AEW click their fingers and magically get good?


Perhaps it is personal preference, but I've found the majority of AEW's booking this year engaging. They have taken a lot of no names and are well underway in developing unique and notable characters for them. Even the misfires aren't left to misfire, but like WWE of the 1990s they are continuing to experiment and working to find how the pieces best fit (ala Sean Spears).

I'll use Sammy Guevara as an example...ask yourself thi, would he have a more unique character in AEW or in WWE? IMO, he'd be a generic CAW fighting on RAW or NXT, with no character variation between himself and half a dozen other wrestlers. In AEW he's made himself into a modern day nWo Syxx and a building block for the company.


----------



## The Wood

Seafort said:


> Perhaps it is personal preference, but I've found the majority of AEW's booking this year engaging. They have taken a lot of no names and are well underway in developing unique and notable characters for them. Even the misfires aren't left to misfire, but like WWE of the 1990s they are continuing to experiment and working to find how the pieces best fit (ala Sean Spears).
> 
> I'll use Sammy Guevara as an example...ask yourself thi, would he have a more unique character in AEW or in WWE? IMO, he'd be a generic CAW fighting on RAW or NXT, with no character variation between himself and half a dozen other wrestlers. In AEW he's made himself into a modern day nWo Syxx and a building block for the company.


The talent that are shining in AEW -- MJF, Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy, cunty Darby Allin -- are benefiting from AEW in the same way as guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels benefited from TNA, I'll give you that. It's letting their personalities stretch out a bit more and they'll be able to go to the WWE having a body of work as personalities that WWE can lift. The best thing AEW can tout is that they are useful as an unofficial developmental league.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The wood just loving trying to shit on everything again, what an idiot

why would aew go down to 400k if wwe dropped to 1.1 million?

aew pre pandemic were stable In ratings between 750 and 950...wwe has been declining for ages and the product is not getting better.

stop just shitting on peoples opinions just for the sake of it.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> The wood just loving trying to shit on everything again, what an idiot


How am I wrong? You could try making an actual point instead of just sooking.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> How am I wrong? You could try making an actual point instead of just sooking.


there is no point, you have an answer for everything. and no that doesn’t mean your answers are right, they are often wrong, but you refuse to accept it.


----------



## Pippen94

Danielallen1410 said:


> The wood just loving trying to shit on everything again, what an idiot
> 
> why would aew go down to 400k if wwe dropped to 1.1 million?
> 
> aew pre pandemic were stable In ratings between 750 and 950...wwe has been declining for ages and the product is not getting better.
> 
> stop just shitting on peoples opinions just for the sake of it.


I know - his calculator broken


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Seafort said:


> Perhaps it is personal preference, but I've found the majority of AEW's booking this year engaging. They have taken a lot of no names and are well underway in developing unique and notable characters for them. Even the misfires aren't left to misfire, but like WWE of the 1990s they are continuing to experiment and working to find how the pieces best fit (ala Sean Spears).
> 
> I'll use Sammy Guevara as an example...ask yourself thi, would he have a more unique character in AEW or in WWE? IMO, he'd be a generic CAW fighting on RAW or NXT, with no character variation between himself and half a dozen other wrestlers. In AEW he's made himself into a modern day nWo Syxx and a building block for the company.


less than a year ago people were shitting on AEW for opening the first PPV and then again for opening the first Dynamit

yet, here we are - not long after he is almost everybody’s fav

Sammy is a prime example of ‘they know what they’re doing’


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> there is no point, you have an answer for everything. and no that doesn’t mean your answers are right, they are often wrong, but you refuse to accept it.


Tell me how I am wrong. You edited your post before this. I won't accuse you of being sneaky, but be rest assured I would have replied to an attempt at content had it been there when I quoted you. 

If WWE dropped that dramatically, AEW would also lose out on popularity, because the business itself would be in decline. It is completely unreasonable to assume that AEW would remain in its spot should HALF OF WRESTLING'S AUDIENCE decided to stop watching. The products are not vastly different from one another, and certainly not to the point that one would be a clear preference over the other in such droves. This isn't Mid-South vs. the WWF in Georgia. It's two sports entertainment properties that do things very similarly. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> less than a year ago people were shitting on AEW for opening the first PPV and then again for opening the first Dynamit
> 
> yet, here we are - not long after he is almost everybody’s fav
> 
> Sammy is a prime example of ‘they know what they’re doing’


The best things about Sammy Guevara are things he does himself. A lot of that is probably listening to Chris Jericho, who probably tells him to listen to Jim Ross, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard and Dean Malenko. It's the nuances in his work. That's not coming from the AEW brain-trust. In fact, there's nothing especially good about how Sammy Guevara has been booked. I'm not even whinging about him losing to Matt Hardy, as shitty as Matt Hardy is these days -- but you can't say that losing to Matt Hardy is AEW "knowing what they're doing."


----------



## Cult03

Danielallen1410 said:


> The wood just loving trying to shit on everything again, what an idiot
> 
> why would aew go down to 400k if wwe dropped to 1.1 million?
> 
> aew pre pandemic were stable In ratings between 750 and 950...wwe has been declining for ages and the product is not getting better.
> 
> stop just shitting on peoples opinions just for the sake of it.


Haven't you been banned for insulting people already, Garty?


----------



## Chairshot620

So is it just me or has AEW been name dropping more NJPW references? Lately I’ve heard them mention Okada, Suzuki, and Tanahashi by name, as well as mentioning New Japan itself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chairshot620 said:


> So is it just me or has AEW been name dropping more NJPW references? Lately I’ve heard them mention Okada, Suzuki, and Tanahashi by name, as well as mentioning New Japan itself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yup, noticing it too

I’m starting to think they’re setting something up for the 2nd show - now that NJPW has no TV deal in the US anymore, it might be an interesting collaboration - and just what the wrestling world needs to kickstart out of the gate of the pandemic

but I am fantasy booking now


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yup, noticing it too
> 
> I’m starting to think they’re setting something up for the 2nd show - now that NJPW has no TV deal in the US anymore, it might be an interesting collaboration - and just what the wrestling world needs to kickstart out of the gate of the pandemic
> 
> but I am fantasy booking now


I wonder what kind of logistical benefit NJPW would get with such an arrangement too.

They can basically lend talent, feature their stars/storylines, introduce their product into a hardcore audience without the logistics/costs affiliated. TNT would probably love the added talent/international exposure.

AEW gets far better talent that they can work in as well.

An international title would've been cool that is constantly defended between AEW talent/NJPW talent. Champ gets home court advantage. Lots of interesting things they could do with it.


----------



## Aedubya

Chairshot620 said:


> So is it just me or has AEW been name dropping more NJPW references? Lately I’ve heard them mention Okada, Suzuki, and Tanahashi by name, as well as mentioning New Japan itself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Havnt noticed, have you any examples please?


----------



## The Wood

New Japan working with AEW would be a bad move for them. They would have their top talent seen by 600k yanks, but the Japanese would be insulted that The Ace would be in a league that pays Marko Stunt to be there. They still treat this shit with class in Japan.


----------



## Chairshot620

Believe me I want Marko Stunt, and Orange Cassidy out of AEW, not sure that would stop the comedy act overload, just seeing what they did to Shawn Spears, and some of the things in the stadium stampede on PPV Saturday.

I don’t think the comedy would stop NJPW from working with AEW though, I mean they have Yano, and also work with ROH who has Cheeseburger.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

Chairshot620 said:


> Believe me I want Marko Stunt, and Orange Cassidy out of AEW, not sure that would stop the comedy act overload, just seeing what they did to Shawn Spears, and some of the things in the stadium stampede on PPV Saturday.
> 
> I don’t think the comedy would stop NJPW from working with AEW though, I mean they have Yano, and also work with ROH who has Cheeseburger.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yano is a different beast, but fair points. ROH exists on a much smaller scale and I’m unfamiliar with Cheeseburger, honestly. Does he do anything that makes fun of wrestling, or is he just undersized? If it’s the latter, he’s not anywhere near as damaging as Marko Stunt or Orange Cassidy.


----------



## Chairshot620

He is undersized, but that gets made fun of, and taken somewhat seriously. He at least shows more in ring ability than Marko or Orange do.

The problem with AEW is they just gone overboard with the comedy, especially Orange. Sure, comedy may attract casuals because they are funny and cool, but they need someone who is bad ass and cool, like Stone Cold (no easy task finding the next one) to attract casuals.

NJPW could ask that their guys not be booked with the comedy acts. I know Suzuki did accept a booking vs Orange, but that was independent of both AEW and NJPW.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Chairshot620 said:


> He is undersized, but that gets made fun of, and taken somewhat seriously. He at least shows more in ring ability than Marko or Orange do.
> 
> The problem with AEW is they just gone overboard with the comedy, especially Orange. Sure, comedy may attract casuals because they are funny and cool, but they need someone who is bad ass and cool, like Stone Cold (no easy task finding the next one) to attract casuals.
> 
> NJPW could ask that their guys not be booked with the comedy acts. I know Suzuki did accept a booking vs Orange, but that was independent of both AEW and NJPW.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'd love to shit on Orange but I know for a fact that the Japanese offices have to give the thumbs up for their guys to work guys. For example a money mark with a ton of money couldn't just pay Okada 10 grand to come to the USA and work a local backyard guy in a recreation hall. NJPW would only let their guys work someone with a reputation.

That's the same for all the major Japanese companies. AJPW, Dragon Gate, NOAH etc if they're sending a guy in they want that guy to work someone good. For whatever reason someone in the NJPW office has deemed Orange good enough to work Suzuki.


----------



## The Wood

Suzuki is a freelancer, isn’t he? I’m sure it will be Suzuki brutalising OC for minutes on end. Insane it’s even happening, but it’s probably not going to be seen by anyone important, and the business is already in a hole.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Suzuki is a freelancer, isn’t he? I’m sure it will be Suzuki brutalising OC for minutes on end. Insane it’s even happening, but it’s probably not going to be seen by anyone important, and the business is already in a hole.


If he's freelance obviously the NJPW office has no say. Just googled to confirm that Suzuki is indeed freelance so nobody in NJPW is thinking highly of Orange (Thank god)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NJPW is filled with comedy stuff sometimes

Look no further than Hangman for the next SCSA-type star (no, not exactly like SCSA - not as popular or good on the mic, just A badass antihero)


----------



## Shaun_27

I assume it is an impossible question, but have AEW succeded in targeting lapsed fans which was one of their big aims? It is nothing more than a gut instinct, but I would guess not many people exclusively watch AEW.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Shaun_27 said:


> I assume it is an impossible question, but have AEW succeded in targeting lapsed fans


They draw anywhere between 700K-950K in normal times, so they haven't attracted a significant amount of lapsed fans.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> They draw anywhere between 700K-950K in normal times, so they haven't attracted a significant amount of lapsed fans.


Depends on how many fans are actually watching still. The theory that between Raw and TNA Impact 6 or 7 million where watching wrestling per week 10 years ago. While between Raw and Dynamite only around 3 million are watching wrestling today. Well is a very poor way to judge things.


Theres just other ways to watch these shows now. Rather then sit home and watch them live. I think in reality less people are watching wrestling but it's pretty small margin. Wrestling just isn't must see tv these days. I think biggest issue is wrestling just isn't must see tv these days.


So fans skip watching it live with dvr. Or they don't have cable so they watch free streams or on say Hulu the next day. Or for AEW they watch it on-demand either on their cable app or TNT after the fact. Or I have friends who just watch highlights on YouTube every week. Then if they see something good they will find full pirated verison of the match or segment on YouTube or Daily Motion. IMO really double the people are really watching WWE and AEW in some form every week.


If anything the fact that AEW was drawing 3-5 thousand people in small markets and 5-10 plus thousand in big markets. Along doing strong ppv buys for all there shows. Which hasn't been done since 2000. Is a better indication that they are bringing back some of those lapse fans.


Even though the internet likes to compare ratings from 10-20 years ago to current times. To make there case that wrestling is dying or not as popular as it was or whatever. Yet WWE is more profitable then it's ever been. AEW made more money and been more successful then any other brand new wrestling company during it's first year. Why are they so successful? It's from the tv money from the networks wanting these content badly. Yet people use modern ratings to point out how much wrestling struggling.


Does that make any sense lol? Obviously these ratings aren't bad and networks know how much value it brings. For example BRLIVE that app is getting used and has so much eyes on it now due to AEW. Not just for ppvs but you can go back watch old Dynamites and other content. So in reality wrestling is doing great right now. It's just doing great in a different way. But you can say that about a lot of sports or content in 2020.


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> They draw anywhere between 700K-950K in normal times, so they haven't attracted a significant amount of lapsed fans.


Yep. I doubt the lapsed fans will ever come back to wrestling. I know die-hard wrestling fans that have completely left the product to the point that no storyline no matter how hot can bring them back. It's just the reality of the industry, there will never be another wrestling boom. You can do Brock Lesnar vs The Rock and weekly viewers probably won't move past 2.2 million. And the stigma of "fake fighting" is too ingrained in the population for new people to take it seriously.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

imthegame19 said:


> Depends on how many fans are actually watching still. The theory that between Raw and TNA Impact 6 or 7 million where watching wrestling per week 10 years ago. While between Raw and Dynamite only around 3 million are watching wrestling today. Well is a very poor way to judge things.
> 
> 
> Theres just other ways to watch these shows now. Rather then sit home and watch them live. I think in reality less people are watching wrestling but it's pretty small margin. Wrestling just isn't must see tv these days. I think biggest issue is wrestling just isn't must see tv these days.
> 
> 
> So fans skip watching it live with dvr. Or they don't have cable so they watch free streams or on say Hulu the next day. Or for AEW they watch it on-demand either on their cable app or TNT after the fact. Or I have friends who just watch highlights on YouTube every week. Then if they see something good they will find full pirated verison of the match or segment on YouTube or Daily Motion. IMO really double the people are really watching WWE and AEW in some form every week.
> 
> 
> If anything the fact that AEW was drawing 3-5 thousand people in small markets and 5-10 plus thousand in big markets. Along doing strong ppv buys for all there shows. Which hasn't been done since 2000. Is a better indication that they are bringing back some of those lapse fans.
> 
> 
> Even though the internet likes to compare ratings from 10-20 years ago to current times. To make there case that wrestling is dying or not as popular as it was or whatever. Yet WWE is more profitable then it's ever been. AEW made more money and been more successful then any other brand new wrestling company during it's first year. Why are they so successful? It's from the tv money from the networks wanting these content badly. Yet people use modern ratings to point out how much wrestling struggling.
> 
> 
> Does that make any sense lol? Obviously these ratings aren't bad and networks know how much value it brings. For example BRLIVE that app is getting used and has so much eyes on it now due to AEW. Not just for ppvs but you can go back watch old Dynamites and other content. So in reality wrestling is doing great right now. It's just doing great in a different way. But you can say that about a lot of sports or content in 2020.


Damn, GREAT POST. I actually watch stuff other than AEW on BR Live now and I didn’t know that it even existed until the first Double or Nothing.


----------



## Pippen94

imthegame19 said:


> Depends on how many fans are actually watching still. The theory that between Raw and TNA Impact 6 or 7 million where watching wrestling per week 10 years ago. While between Raw and Dynamite only around 3 million are watching wrestling today. Well is a very poor way to judge things.
> 
> 
> Theres just other ways to watch these shows now. Rather then sit home and watch them live. I think in reality less people are watching wrestling but it's pretty small margin. Wrestling just isn't must see tv these days. I think biggest issue is wrestling just isn't must see tv these days.
> 
> 
> So fans skip watching it live with dvr. Or they don't have cable so they watch free streams or on say Hulu the next day. Or for AEW they watch it on-demand either on their cable app or TNT after the fact. Or I have friends who just watch highlights on YouTube every week. Then if they see something good they will find full pirated verison of the match or segment on YouTube or Daily Motion. IMO really double the people are really watching WWE and AEW in some form every week.
> 
> 
> If anything the fact that AEW was drawing 3-5 thousand people in small markets and 5-10 plus thousand in big markets. Along doing strong ppv buys for all there shows. Which hasn't been done since 2000. Is a better indication that they are bringing back some of those lapse fans.
> 
> 
> Even though the internet likes to compare ratings from 10-20 years ago to current times. To make there case that wrestling is dying or not as popular as it was or whatever. Yet WWE is more profitable then it's ever been. AEW made more money and been more successful then any other brand new wrestling company during it's first year. Why are they so successful? It's from the tv money from the networks wanting these content badly. Yet people use modern ratings to point out how much wrestling struggling.
> 
> 
> Does that make any sense lol? Obviously these ratings aren't bad and networks know how much value it brings. For example BRLIVE that app is getting used and has so much eyes on it now due to AEW. Not just for ppvs but you can go back watch old Dynamites and other content. So in reality wrestling is doing great right now. It's just doing great in a different way. But you can say that about a lot of sports or content in 2020.


Great post


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Depends on how many fans are actually watching still. The theory that between Raw and TNA Impact 6 or 7 million where watching wrestling per week 10 years ago. While between Raw and Dynamite only around 3 million are watching wrestling today. Well is a very poor way to judge things.
> 
> 
> Theres just other ways to watch these shows now. Rather then sit home and watch them live. I think in reality less people are watching wrestling but it's pretty small margin. Wrestling just isn't must see tv these days. I think biggest issue is wrestling just isn't must see tv these days.
> 
> 
> So fans skip watching it live with dvr. Or they don't have cable so they watch free streams or on say Hulu the next day. Or for AEW they watch it on-demand either on their cable app or TNT after the fact. Or I have friends who just watch highlights on YouTube every week. Then if they see something good they will find full pirated verison of the match or segment on YouTube or Daily Motion. IMO really double the people are really watching WWE and AEW in some form every week.
> 
> 
> If anything the fact that AEW was drawing 3-5 thousand people in small markets and 5-10 plus thousand in big markets. Along doing strong ppv buys for all there shows. Which hasn't been done since 2000. Is a better indication that they are bringing back some of those lapse fans.
> 
> 
> Even though the internet likes to compare ratings from 10-20 years ago to current times. To make there case that wrestling is dying or not as popular as it was or whatever. Yet WWE is more profitable then it's ever been. AEW made more money and been more successful then any other brand new wrestling company during it's first year. Why are they so successful? It's from the tv money from the networks wanting these content badly. Yet people use modern ratings to point out how much wrestling struggling.
> 
> 
> Does that make any sense lol? Obviously these ratings aren't bad and networks know how much value it brings. For example BRLIVE that app is getting used and has so much eyes on it now due to AEW. Not just for ppvs but you can go back watch old Dynamites and other content. So in reality wrestling is doing great right now. It's just doing great in a different way. But you can say that about a lot of sports or content in 2020.


No doubt they've brought some back. You see people on this forum and elsewhere saying that AEW has brought them back after many years away from wrestling. Hell, even I would qualify as a lapsed fan, since I hadn't watched wrestling since 2016 prior to last year. 

But still, I wouldn't say it's a significant amount. Most people who watch are likely those who have been watching wrestling all along.


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> Depends on how many fans are actually watching still. The theory that between Raw and TNA Impact 6 or 7 million where watching wrestling per week 10 years ago. While between Raw and Dynamite only around 3 million are watching wrestling today. Well is a very poor way to judge things.
> 
> 
> Theres just other ways to watch these shows now. Rather then sit home and watch them live. I think in reality less people are watching wrestling but it's pretty small margin. Wrestling just isn't must see tv these days. I think biggest issue is wrestling just isn't must see tv these days.
> 
> 
> So fans skip watching it live with dvr. Or they don't have cable so they watch free streams or on say Hulu the next day. Or for AEW they watch it on-demand either on their cable app or TNT after the fact. Or I have friends who just watch highlights on YouTube every week. Then if they see something good they will find full pirated verison of the match or segment on YouTube or Daily Motion. IMO really double the people are really watching WWE and AEW in some form every week.
> 
> 
> If anything the fact that AEW was drawing 3-5 thousand people in small markets and 5-10 plus thousand in big markets. Along doing strong ppv buys for all there shows. Which hasn't been done since 2000. Is a better indication that they are bringing back some of those lapse fans.
> 
> 
> Even though the internet likes to compare ratings from 10-20 years ago to current times. To make there case that wrestling is dying or not as popular as it was or whatever. Yet WWE is more profitable then it's ever been. AEW made more money and been more successful then any other brand new wrestling company during it's first year. Why are they so successful? It's from the tv money from the networks wanting these content badly. Yet people use modern ratings to point out how much wrestling struggling.
> 
> 
> Does that make any sense lol? Obviously these ratings aren't bad and networks know how much value it brings. For example BRLIVE that app is getting used and has so much eyes on it now due to AEW. Not just for ppvs but you can go back watch old Dynamites and other content. So in reality wrestling is doing great right now. It's just doing great in a different way. But you can say that about a lot of sports or content in 2020.


Haven't thought about it this way, you put it into perspective really well


----------



## AEWMoxley

Looks like DON did around 100K. Pretty much what most of their PPVs have done.









How AEW Double Or Nothing Pay-Per-View Buys Are Looking So Far


AEW Double Or Nothing's official pay-per-view numbers aren't out yet, but things are looking good. The AEW Coutdown To Double Or Nothing special on TNT




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## Pippen94

AEWMoxley said:


> Looks like DON did around 100K. Pretty much what most of their PPVs have done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How AEW Double Or Nothing Pay-Per-View Buys Are Looking So Far
> 
> 
> AEW Double Or Nothing's official pay-per-view numbers aren't out yet, but things are looking good. The AEW Coutdown To Double Or Nothing special on TNT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com


Quite amazing given no crowds - well done aew


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> Looks like DON did around 100K. Pretty much what most of their PPVs have done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How AEW Double Or Nothing Pay-Per-View Buys Are Looking So Far
> 
> 
> AEW Double Or Nothing's official pay-per-view numbers aren't out yet, but things are looking good. The AEW Coutdown To Double Or Nothing special on TNT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com


Very good for a $50 show with no crowd. And that's not the final number because there are replays to account for. All Out should be even higher.


----------



## TripleG

Is that number accurate? Jeez, good on them. I would have expected a sharp decline in the buyrate given the current circumstances.


----------



## rbl85

For the moment we don't know


----------



## Erik.

Worth noting that Raw ratings actually went down the week after Tyson/Austin and they didn't get a rating same or higher than that episode for 3 months.

And that was when Tyson was alot bigger than he is now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Worth noting that Raw ratings actually went down the week after Tyson/Austin and they didn't get a rating same or higher than that episode for 3 months.
> 
> And that was when Tyson was alot bigger than he is now.


yeah, not sure it will have a massive effect on their on-the-night rating

but future ppv buys and replay ratings + future ratings when the angle appears again -one would expect it affecting it


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, not sure it will have a massive effect on their on-the-night rating
> 
> but future ppv buys and replay ratings + future ratings when the angle appears again -one would expect it affecting it


If i'm a fan of Tyson and i don't like wrestling, i just watch the video of his appearance on internet.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> If i'm a fan of Tyson and i don't like wrestling, i just watch the video of his appearance on internet.


Modern day wrestling in a nutshell.

Its like when people said Brock Lesnar doesn't bring eyes to a product when he came back because ratings barely moved. I said back then that any Lesnar fan or anyone interested would just watch Lesnar on YouTube instead of tuning in to see it.

Why are you going to watch a live soap opera, that you wouldn't usually watch, just to see the one you're interested in for 5 minutes? You're not. It's not 1998 anymore.


----------



## Dark Emperor

prosperwithdeen said:


> Very good for a $50 show with no crowd. And that's not the final number because there are replays to account for. All Out should be even higher.


Not fact. Read the article. Meltzer just estimating as usual. But those are the only figures we get.

Also more than half the buys are always from outside USA where the PPV is only $20. So it's not as simple as AEW making (100k * $50) minus provider fees.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Erik. said:


> Modern day wrestling in a nutshell.
> 
> Its like when people said Brock Lesnar doesn't bring eyes to a product when he came back because ratings barely moved. I said back then that any Lesnar fan or anyone interested would just watch Lesnar on YouTube instead of tuning in to see it.
> 
> Why are you going to watch a live soap opera, that you wouldn't usually watch, just to see the one you're interested in for 5 minutes? You're not. It's not 1998 anymore.


Agreed, in this day and age. No significant amount of people is gonna watch 2hr - 3hr weekly show with ridiculous number of ads just to see Tyson or similar. Only mega draws advertised in advance like Rock & McGregor will spike numbers significantly.


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> Modern day wrestling in a nutshell.
> 
> Its like when people said Brock Lesnar doesn't bring eyes to a product when he came back because ratings barely moved. I said back then that any Lesnar fan or anyone interested would just watch Lesnar on YouTube instead of tuning in to see it.
> 
> Why are you going to watch a live soap opera, that you wouldn't usually watch, just to see the one you're interested in for 5 minutes? You're not. It's not 1998 anymore.


Exactly why go through 2 hours of something you don't like to see 5min of Tyson when you can watch those 5min on YouTube or even twitter.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dark Emperor said:


> Also more than half the buys are always from outside USA where the PPV is only $20. So it's not as simple as AEW making (100k * $50) minus provider fees.


Nah. About 2/3 of their buys have been from the US.


----------



## Erik.

Dark Emperor said:


> Agreed, in this day and age. No significant amount of people is gonna watch 2hr - 3hr weekly show with ridiculous number of ads just to see Tyson or similar. Only mega draws advertised in advance like Rock & McGregor will spike numbers significantly.


Even then, I feel like people just wouldn't tune in for it and just wait until it pops up on social media or YouTube to watch the clip. 

Theres so many different ways to just watch something now and stay in the loop. 

I'm a Tyson Fury fan yet didn't tune in live to see his WWE performances. I just watched it on YouTube or Twitter the following day. Turns out, I didn't miss too much.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> Worth noting that Raw ratings actually went down the week after Tyson/Austin and they didn't get a rating same or higher than that episode for 3 months.
> 
> And that was when Tyson was alot bigger than he is now.


For sure.

The difference being is that WWE were already top of the food chain back then. If you wanted to watch wrestling, you would know where to go.

AEW some people have no idea it exists. They might have enjoyed wrestling during the attitude era and were driven off. Seeing the article _may_ peak their interest. "Oh what's AEW? I used to watch Jericho all the time. How the fuck is he still wrestling" they'll check some stuff out on YT and decide if it's worth checking out a show. The more that people hear the name "AEW" the more they'll wonder what it is.


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEWMoxley said:


> Nah. About 2/3 of their buys have been from the US.


Is that so? Do you have the breakdown?

If they are getting 75% from US and get to keep a large % of PPV money from provider then that is a decent result.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> For sure.
> 
> The difference being is that WWE were already top of the food chain back then. If you wanted to watch wrestling, you would know where to go.
> 
> AEW some people have no idea it exists. They might have enjoyed wrestling during the attitude era and were driven off. Seeing the article _may_ peak their interest. "Oh what's AEW? I used to watch Jericho all the time. How the fuck is he still wrestling" they'll check some stuff out on YT and decide if it's worth checking out a show. The more that people hear the name "AEW" the more they'll wonder what it is.


At the time WWF used Tyson, they were the clear #2 promotion. It helped them tremendously in their battle with catching up to WCW. It won't help AEW nearly as much because the dude is 53. It just adds something else to the show for us to talk about.


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> For sure.
> 
> The difference being is that WWE were already top of the food chain back then. If you wanted to watch wrestling, you would know where to go.
> 
> AEW some people have no idea it exists. They might have enjoyed wrestling during the attitude era and were driven off. Seeing the article _may_ peak their interest. "Oh what's AEW? I used to watch Jericho all the time. How the fuck is he still wrestling" they'll check some stuff out on YT and decide if it's worth checking out a show. The more that people hear the name "AEW" the more they'll wonder what it is.


Just think wrestling is scorched earth mate.

The only new viewers AEW are going to get (live that come across on ratings) are a portion of the 2,000,000 that still watch WWE. Because they're proven live wrestling watchers.

My brother is an AEW fan (hadn't watched wrestling for 20 years before DoN last year) yet he never watches it live. Just catches up over the next few days. And there will be loads like him.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Erik. said:


> Worth noting that Raw ratings actually went down the week after Tyson/Austin and they didn't get a rating same or higher than that episode for 3 months.
> 
> And that was when Tyson was alot bigger than he is now.


In fairness, they were competing with a scorching hot WCW that was the clear #1 company in the world at the time coming off of Hogan/Sting, hype from adding a 3rd hour, hype from debuting Thunder, Bret Hart was just getting started in WCW/etc....It was tough. AEW isn't competing with anyone WCW 1998s level. No company today is even remotely close to as popular as WCW was in 1998.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dark Emperor said:


> Is that so? Do you have the breakdown?
> 
> If they are getting 75% from US and get to keep a large % of PPV money from provider then that is a decent result.


Meltzer has been posting the breakdowns. They got around 65-70K US buys for DON 2019, and similar numbers for every PPV following it. Revolution broke a B/R Live streaming record for the event, and was on par with DON 2019 or slightly higher in terms of US buys.

411MANIA | Update on AEW Revolution PPV Buyrate, UK Numbers


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> Just think wrestling is scorched earth mate.
> 
> The only new viewers AEW are going to get (live that come across on ratings) are a portion of the 2,000,000 that still watch WWE. Because they're proven live wrestling watchers.
> 
> My brother is an AEW fan (hadn't watched wrestling for 20 years before DoN last year) yet he never watches it live. Just catches up over the next few days. And there will be loads like him.


yea it's wishful thinking. I don't expect a ratings pop tonight at all btw.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> In fairness, they were competing with a scorching hot WCW that was the clear #1 company in the world at the time coming off of Hogan/Sting, hype from adding a 3rd hour, hype from debuting Thunder, Bret Hart was just getting started in WCW/etc....It was tough. AEW isn't competing with anyone WCW 1998s level. No company today is even remotely close to as popular as WCW was in 1998.


They were, you're not wrong.

I just find it interesting that Tyson was brought in to get eyes on a product yet it didn't keep any of the extra 400,000 that tuned in on that episode and instead even more viewers turned on WCW for the next few months instead.

I think I seem to remember the news weren't interested until WM14 when Tyson was enforcer etc. - which would make sense because that's when Raws viewers went up by nearly a million, two and a half months after that Raw appearance.

So if this is all going to eventually be scheduled for All Out - it might be after then where they see any affect.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Erik. said:


> They were, you're not wrong.
> 
> I just find it interesting that Tyson was brought in to get eyes on a product yet it didn't keep any of the extra 400,000 that tuned in on that episode and instead even more viewers turned on WCW for the next few months instead.
> 
> I think I seem to remember the news weren't interested until WM14 when Tyson was enforcer etc. - which would make sense because that's when Raws viewers went up by nearly a million, two and a half months after that Raw appearance.
> 
> So if this is all going to eventually be scheduled for All Out - it might be after then where they see any affect.


Yeah, I imagine, at best, 15-20k extra Tyson hardcore fans will watch. Maybe. But it is good for making AEWs name known, I guess. Trust me, Id rather them spend a couple of million on CM Punk to do this kind of deal than the couple of million for Tyson. But I suspect HBO Max and Tyson are in bed together and that is the real reason that Tyson is doing this stint in AEW.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, I imagine, at best, 15-20k extra Tyson hardcore fans will watch. Maybe. But it is good for making AEWs name known, I guess. Trust me, Id rather them spend a couple of million on CM Punk to do this kind of deal than the couple of million for Tyson. But I suspect HBO Max and Tyson are in bed together and that is the real reason that Tyson is doing this stint in AEW.


I am sure I read Khan and Tyson are actually good friends, Tyson is a big wrestling fan and was at and loved Double or Nothing last year.


----------



## rbl85

AEW Might Have Broken Record With Double Or Nothing Pay-Per-View Buys


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> AEW Might Have Broken Record With Double Or Nothing Pay-Per-View Buys


Interesting to finally have someone else other than Meltzer give a buys estimate. Meltzer said it was basically the same as previous PPVs.

How credible is Mike Johnson?

Either way, 100K or more is a great number.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Interesting to finally have someone else other than Meltzer give a buys estimate. Meltzer said it was basically the same as previous PPVs.
> 
> How credible is Mike Johnson?
> 
> Either way, 100K or more is a great number.


Was it really meltzer who said it was the same as previous PPV's ?

I'm quite sure it was Alvarez you talked about it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Was it really meltzer who said it was the same as previous PPV's ?
> 
> I'm quite sure it was Alvarez you talked about it.


I just checked the link again. You're right, it was Alvarez. But I assume he gets his info from Meltzer. It's not like he has any PPV sources.


----------



## RapShepard

Predicting between 725k-811k, . 24 in the demo, it'll rank between 4th and 37th.


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> They were, you're not wrong.
> 
> I just find it interesting that Tyson was brought in to get eyes on a product yet it didn't keep any of the extra 400,000 that tuned in on that episode and instead even more viewers turned on WCW for the next few months instead.
> 
> I think I seem to remember the news weren't interested until WM14 when Tyson was enforcer etc. - which would make sense because that's when Raws viewers went up by nearly a million, two and a half months after that Raw appearance.
> 
> So if this is all going to eventually be scheduled for All Out - it might be after then where they see any affect.


I remember reading about the potential deal with Tyson, in the papers, shortly after New Years Day in 1998. First time I'd seen a WWF related story since 1995, when it was claimed Shawn and Tommy from Motley Crue got into a fight after WrestleMania 11 lol. The pull apart brawl between Austin and Tyson had strong coverage internationally. Had died down a bit by WM 14.

Worth noting the post WM episode of Raw was possibly their finest episode ever at that point. They cemented Austin/McMahon, new DX, future debuts etc. The follow up episodes were strong. Meanwhile, the NWO break up was already becoming convoluted, Uncensored '98 was disappointing and Nitro was being tested by Thunder.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> If i'm a fan of Tyson and i don't like wrestling, i just watch the video of his appearance on internet.


very true, but out of curiosity you might buy the PPV when he faces Jericho?

all this being said - it is not just ratings that matter

now they maybe make a Tyson figure, shirt

now they make more Youtube money

it kinda ties in together - more exposure won’t be hurting them for sure / we just might not see it in the Nielson ratings, agreed


----------



## AEW_19

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266098590830608385
Hold fire until it's confirmed 😂


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW_19 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266098590830608385
> Hold fire until it's confirmed 😂











Mike Tyson Helps AEW Dynamite Blow Past WWE NXT


AEW Dynamite handily beat WWE NXT with a Double or Nothing fallout show featuring a show-closing brawl between Mike Tyson and Chris Jericho.




www.forbes.com





It’s confirmed. Looks like normality returns.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well shit - that is great if true


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dynamite‘s key demo and Raw’s key demo might be touching tips soon  

will be a fun day when that happens


----------



## kazarn

Good increase, now let's see if the Tyson angle helps them even more next week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

This thread will be very quiet this week, i reckon.....


----------



## PavelGaborik

4th in the demo is pretty damn impressive.

I was hoping for 750k so just under 830k is very impressive.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> This thread will be very quiet this week, i reckon.....


i did a couple of ‘unignore’ just to drink it in maaaaaannnnn


----------



## Erik.

Only the second time that AEW has increased two weeks in a row. 

Best AEW rating since 18th March which I think was the first of the crowdless shows. 

Really good from them following Double or Nothing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


their first show with a crowd has a real punchers’ chance

first UK show as well


----------



## kazarn

Showstopper said:


> Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


When they get their fans back maybe.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Predicting between 725k-811k, . 24 in the demo, it'll rank between 4th and 37th.


Exceeded your expectations then!


----------



## AEWMoxley

Will be interesting to see if they'll get an even bigger Tyson bump next week, given all of the media attention.


----------



## AEW_19

Showstopper said:


> Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


I still think 1 million will take a couple of years


----------



## RapShepard

Showstopper said:


> Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


Maybe years from now if they get a hot story


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> Will be interesting to see if they'll get an even bigger Tyson bump next week, given all of the media attention.


Maybe. 

But WWF, when wrestling was hot, didn't even get a ratings bump the following week after Tyson/Austin.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Maybe years from now if they get a hot story


AEW getting a million plus will coincide with Raw getting just above a million, in my view. 

Theres literally only 900k between them now ffs.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> Maybe.
> 
> But WWF, when wrestling was hot, didn't even get a ratings bump the following week after Tyson/Austin.


That's because wrestling was already hot and WWF had a ton of brand recognition at that point. There wasn't much Tyson could add.

Whereas with AEW, a lot, maybe even most, wrestling fans and people in general don't even know it exists.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I'm just glad the show ended the way it did. Hot ending = good chance of fans returning next week.

Open with something fire next week, promise some fireworks during the show and you'll keep those fans tuned in.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Exceeded your expectations then!


They're doing a good job of holding what they have and getting fans to consistently keep checking back in. As long as TNT don't get on some fuck shit, they clearly have a base that suggests they should be around a while.


----------



## taker1986

That's great to see. Hopefully when crowds back they can consistently get over a million. It's within reach.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i did a couple of ‘unignore’ just to drink it in maaaaaannnnn


That’s great. Haha


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> That's because wrestling was already hot and WWF had a ton of brand recognition at that point. There wasn't much Tyson could add.
> 
> Whereas with AEW, a lot, maybe even most, wrestling fans don't even know it exists.


They lost 400,000 viewers the following week. 

I reckon AEW will be down next week - but no one should look at that as a failure if it does go down. Its the bigger picture.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

optikk sucks said:


> See you guys in August 😊


Reminder of this.

If the gradient for AEW stabilises....


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> I'm just glad the show ended the way it did. Hot ending = good chance of fans returning next week.
> 
> Open with something fire next week, promise some fireworks during the show and you'll keep those fans tuned in.


It will open with Omega and Page vs Sabian and Havoc.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> It will open with Omega and Page vs Sabian and Havoc.


oh god


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite‘s key demo and Raw’s key demo might be touching tips soon


If it wasn't competing with NXT it would be possibly be touching tips for viewers considering NXT did over 700k and Raw is bleeding viewers. AEW and NXT combined did about what Raw did.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> oh god


You know it is true. Lmao


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> They lost 400,000 viewers the following week.
> 
> I reckon AEW will be down next week - but no one should look at that as a failure if it does go down. Its the bigger picture.


They definitely have to capitalize on it, though.

Remember the first 3 or 4 weeks when they drew over a million viewers? They fucked that up by putting on subpar shows and driving fans away.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> That’s great. Haha


sometimes i get a little petty


----------



## El Hammerstone

disregard


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> You know it is true. Lmao


that's something they gotta work on.

they can't fuck this up. There will be a lot of eyes on AEW next week - people who've never even heard of AEW (but are fans of WWE/WCW/ECW) may be keen to see what's up.


----------



## WhyTooJay




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> that's something they gotta work on.
> 
> they can't fuck this up. There will be a lot of eyes on AEW next week - people who've never even heard of AEW (but are fans of WWE/WCW/ECW) may be keen to see what's up.


Personally I think they start with FTR


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> that's something they gotta work on.
> 
> they can't fuck this up. There will be a lot of eyes on AEW next week - people who've never even heard of AEW (but are fans of WWE/WCW/ECW) may be keen to see what's up.


I’m fully expecting: match, match, Cody, match, match, Brian Cage and Moxley, match, Jericho.


----------



## DaSlacker

Slightly less than I expected considering their last two post shows had 900,000 viewers and how they built up the final segment. But that's empty arena effect for you, and NXT is definitely an anchor too. Still think the lack of psychology, the Matt Hardy stuff and they way they use the jokers (i.e Marko, Orange etc) is too divisive. Don't get me wrong, they often do fine quarter hour ratings but IMO are a turn-off for approx 300,000 potential viewers in the long term.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I’m fully expecting: match, match, Cody, match, match, Brian Cage and Moxley, match, Jericho.


it is getting them ratings 🤷‍♂️


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is getting them ratings 🤷‍♂️


How much more ratings could they keep if they gave people more options of characters to connect with, though?


----------



## Erik.

They need to open next week with either Jericho or Moxley. 

Those two are the biggest draws on the show.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> How much more ratings could they keep if they gave people more options of characters to connect with, though?


There is character driven segments every single week man, shit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

man, the over 50s just don’t fuck with AEW  - they could not give 2 shits

that is the lowest over 50 ever i think


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> There is character driven segments every single week man, shit.


Match, match, Cody, match, Jericho, Moxley 3 minute segment, match, match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> How much more ratings could they keep if they gave people more options of characters to connect with, though?


they are connecting with characters, it is just not guys you like or rate


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> Do you guys think they'll ever hit a million viewers again, or even 900K since they didn't after a PPV and with Tyson on the show? Just curious.


Right after Revolution they did 906K viewers and the week before they did 865K, so just an increase of 41K.

Last week they did 701K and last night 827K, an increase of 126K.

I mean difficult for them to do more than 900K (even more for 1M) when you see that they barely did it for the show after revolution


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Match, match, Cody, match, Jericho, Moxley 3 minute segment, match, match.


it works 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RiverFenix

I wonder how many AEW viewers are not Raw and SD watchers. I mean NXT+AEW pulling 80% Raw numbers - I suspect there is by in large only one pro-wrestling viewing base and AEW and NXT just splits it on Wednesdays.


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> Slightly less than I expected considering their last two post shows had 900,000 viewers and how they built up the final segment. But that's empty arena effect for you, and NXT is definitely an anchor too. Still think the lack of psychology, the Matt Hardy stuff and they way they use the jokers (i.e Marko, Orange etc) is too divisive. Don't get me wrong, they often do fine quarter hour ratings but IMO are a turn-off for approx 300,000 potential viewers in the long term.


Yeah but the show before the past PPV were also higher in terms of viewers.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Match, match, Cody, match, Jericho, Moxley 3 minute segment, match, match.


A wrestling show... That has..... Wrestling matches. 

Incredible.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they are connecting with characters, it is just not guys you like or rate


All these amazing stories Cody tells for himself. All these amazing stories Jericho puts together for himself.

And you can’t write ANYTHING worth a fuck program-wise for MJF, Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, Omega and Page and Pac and Lucha Bros in shit segments constantly with Beat Friends?

They leave money on the table l.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I wonder how many AEW viewers are not Raw and SD watchers. I mean NXT+AEW pulling 80% Raw numbers - I suspect there is by in large only one pro-wrestling viewing base and AEW and NXT just splits it on Wednesdays.


the nielson system is so broken, it most likely is just 1 pool of people on a macro scale


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> A wrestling show... That has..... Wrestling matches.
> 
> Incredible.


I love the matches, but can you not throw a bone to any of the guys carrying the in-ring quality? Pac was treated like pure dog shit prior to the pandemic. Ditto Omega and Page, despite the latter coining one of the iconic one liners in AEW history with “Cowboy shit!”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> All these amazing stories Cody tells for himself. All these amazing stories Jericho puts together for himself.
> 
> And you can’t write ANYTHING worth a fuck program-wise for MJF, Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, Omega and Page and Pac and Lucha Bros in shit segments constantly with Beat Friends?
> 
> They leave money on the table l.


you won’t be happy until Cody is off tv - which isn’t gonna happen

i think this will be our contention for years to come 

well, until Kenny becomes the champion / but even then, there is an obvious Cody program looming


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Personally I think they start with FTR





bdon said:


> I’m fully expecting: match, match, Cody, match, match, Brian Cage and Moxley, match, Jericho.


I hope none of these.

A good show for me starts off hectic and violent. Keep people interested. Have a dramatic event occur - "Welcome to Dynamite and something is already happening backstage".
Cut to backstage and Archer's literally on a rampage, destroying everyone and everything in his path. You could start his next feud here or have him carted off by the police. In fact, have him destroy the police. That'll get people loving him, considering what has happened in the past few days.
They announce that he was going to be in the main event against ??? but now they need to find a last minute replacement [if Archer doesn't turn up]. For this, you could literally put anyone - I'd put Wardlow and then use his win to add fuel to the impending beef with MJF.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Looking at the ratings now, it is clear the viewing audience have grown tired of Covid 19 news

no news show in the top 5

i think AEW is back in the top 5 spot again to stay (hopefully)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I hope none of these.
> 
> A good show for me starts off hectic and violent. Keep people interested. Have a dramatic event occur - "Welcome to Dynamite and something is already happening backstage".
> Cut to backstage and Archer's literally on a rampage, destroying everyone and everything in his path. You could start his next feud here or have him carted off by the police.
> They announce that he was going to be in the main event against ??? but now they need to find a last minute replacement. For this, you could literally put anyone - I'd put Wardlow and then use his win to add fuel to the impending beef with MJF.


i mean..... your idea is best


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> This thread will be very quiet this week, i reckon.....


Why?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Both shows up massively. I know AEW had a post ppv show and Tyson advertised so now super surprised. 

But did Kurt Angle really have that big an effect for NXT? Damn, I did see a clip of that cage match which looked impressive.


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but the show before the past PPV were also higher in terms of viewers.


This is true. The higher the mountain, the more difficult it is to climb!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean..... your idea is best


I mean as long as the show starts off impactful with a reason for the viewers to watch the whole way through. Something just needs to happen.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I wonder how many AEW viewers are not Raw and SD watchers. I mean NXT+AEW pulling 80% Raw numbers - I suspect there is by in large only one pro-wrestling viewing base and AEW and NXT just splits it on Wednesdays.


I'd imagine 90% of AEW viewers also watch WWE.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> I'd imagine 90% of AEW viewers also watch WWE.


I'd be surprised if it was that high.

I reckon there's definitely AEW only fans and WWE only fans. 

Hell, I haven't watched WWE in years, I can't be the only one.


----------



## RiverFenix

Erik. said:


> I'd be surprised if it was that high.
> 
> I reckon there's definitely AEW only fans and WWE only fans.
> 
> Hell, I haven't watched WWE in years, I can't be the only one.


Either have I. I keep up with it somewhat via internet but haven't watch Raw or SDL in many years and stopped watching NXT when AEW became a thing.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 86833
> 
> 
> man, the over 50s just don’t fuck with AEW  - they could not give 2 shits
> 
> that is the lowest over 50 ever i think


Unsurprising. Anybody above the 18-35 demo has seen in real-time the angle and segment stuff done better (cough Iron Mike's pull-apart brawl) and the athletic action performed better. Though the self aware comedy approach mixed with long action packed matches and clear winners definitely speaks to the that younger demo better than Raw or SmackDown does.


----------



## validreasoning

RapShepard said:


> I'd imagine 90% of AEW viewers also watch WWE.


It might be lower. Just reading comments on raw/SD threads here and other sites it's very clearly barely anyone who watches raw and SD watches nxt.

So if nxt has different audience to raw or SD maybe aew has too although aew is closer in style to raw and SD.

It's funny total divas/Bella's/Miz and Mrs has a completely different audience to raw and SD so maybe


----------



## Chan Hung

Well the rating for AEW was better than i thought. They're inching up. So did NXT.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> I hope none of these.
> 
> A good show for me starts off hectic and violent. Keep people interested. Have a dramatic event occur - "Welcome to Dynamite and something is already happening backstage".
> Cut to backstage and Archer's literally on a rampage, destroying everyone and everything in his path. You could start his next feud here or have him carted off by the police. In fact, have him destroy the police. That'll get people loving him, considering what has happened in the past few days.
> They announce that he was going to be in the main event against ??? but now they need to find a last minute replacement [if Archer doesn't turn up]. For this, you could literally put anyone - I'd put Wardlow and then use his win to add fuel to the impending beef with MJF.


I mean, goddamn! If the 20 to 30 of us (I assume that’s a safe number) regulars can routinely put together a strong angle, then why do we get left with Omega and Page having random tag matches, Archer likely disappearing for a couple weeks only to have random matches, Cody story heavy moments, more random matches, Moxley, more random matches, Jericho “comedy”, etc?

Cody knows how to book good wrestling, even if I can’t stand him as an in-ring talent. Jericho knows how to make money angles.

The story driven segments should not only be gifted to Cody and Jericho with an occasional Mox moment. The Attitude Era worked, because everyone had something going on. Mankind was forced into that main event scene with how he got over with his character work.

Why is Jungle Boy prancing around pretending to be Moglii? Why does Darby have a death wish? Where is Page’s head this week?

Archer won’t be on any warpath, and as much as we want that to happen, we know not to expect it.


----------



## Erik.

Chan Hung said:


> Well the rating for AEW was better than i thought. They're inching up. So did NXT.


Its great to see 1.5m people viewing wrestling on a Wednesday. 

Only abour 180k difference from how many watched on Monday.


----------



## Chan Hung

Keep in mind in the states there were lots of George Floyd news stories around this timeframe so both NXT and AEW going up was a plus.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I mean, goddamn! If the 20 to 30 of us (I assume that’s a safe number) regulars can routinely put together a strong angle, then why do we get left with Omega and Page having random tag matches, Archer likely disappearing for a couple weeks only to have random matches, Cody story heavy moments, more random matches, Moxley, more random matches, Jericho “comedy”, etc?
> 
> Cody knows how to book good wrestling, even if I can’t stand him as an in-ring talent. Jericho knows how to make money angles.
> 
> The story driven segments should not only be gifted to Cody and Jericho with an occasional Mox moment. The Attitude Era worked, because everyone had something going on. Mankind was forced into that main event scene with how he got over with his character work.
> 
> Why is Jungle Boy prancing around pretending to be Moglii? Why does Darby have a death wish? Where is Page’s head this week?
> 
> Archer won’t be on any warpath, and as much as we want that to happen, we know not to expect it.


Like I said, I pick and choose the bits to watch. Might not overly complain like the weirdos and goofs, but yeah for sure there's a lot of room for improvement.

However, to be fair to AEW, they did answer your question about Darby a long time back. and also they gave backstory about Jungleboy a while back. But i think they'll reiterate some things here, considering his match with Cody


----------



## Erik.

Has anyone thought that this might eventually lead to Tyson bringing in Anthony Ogogo?

He was meant to debut at Fyter Fest with it being in the UK....

Agogo is an ex-boxer, could be a way of putting over a potential younger star. Even if he doesn't win.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Like I said, I pick and choose the bits to watch. Might not overly complain like the weirdos and goofs, but yeah for sure there's a lot of room for improvement.
> 
> However, to be fair to AEW, they did answer your question about Darby a long time back. and also they gave backstory about Jungleboy a while back. But i think they'll reiterate some things here, considering his match with Cody


Oh, I know and remember the Darby/Drunk Uncle story and things, but they have Cody and Jericho doing shit constantly. You’ll never get fans to care about these guys as performers if all they see them as that, performers. They need character. Not every show like Cody and Jericho, but you should be able to drive home a part of each of your top 10-15 guys’ current story each month. Not just a simple match here and there. Not a 2 minute promo, but something the audience can sink its teeth into and be like, “Ohhh man! I can’t wait to see what THAT guy has going on next week!”

Instead...what that guy has going on is the same thing as he has going on every week: match, match, match, match. Unless his name is Cody Rhodes or Jericho.


----------



## Chan Hung

Erik. said:


> Its great to see 1.5m people viewing wrestling on a Wednesday.
> 
> Only abour 180k difference from how many watched on Monday.


Yep,


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Either have I. I keep up with it somewhat via internet but haven't watch Raw or SDL in many years and stopped watching NXT when AEW became a thing.


yeah, i stopped watching WWE during the Daniel Bryan / Big Caz program

i couldn’t bear to look anymore


----------



## Prosper

Strong numbers for both shows. 827k for AEW this week and 731k for NXT. Tyson gave them a huge boost with it also being the fallout show. 96K viewer difference. That's definitely a huge win for NXT too all things considered. Bigger win for AEW of course. That cage fight was pretty crazy, I'm not really that surprised that they were slightly under a 100k viewer difference with AEW after watching that honestly. We'll see how both shows do next week without Tyson or the novelty of the cage fight.



Dark Emperor said:


> Both shows up massively. I know AEW had a post ppv show and Tyson advertised so now super surprised.
> 
> But did Kurt Angle really have that big an effect for NXT? Damn, I did see a clip of that cage match which looked impressive.


I doubt it was Kurt Angle. It was the cage fight itself. That match was pretty damn awesome and the whole idea was impressive enough to draw viewers. Props to NXT.


----------



## Swan-San

yh man it's a shame, I watch every week hoping they realise they need to write better stories. 4 people can't write a good novel, it needs to be one person, and they need to have the talent for it, I don't think any of them including cody have it. But best case scenario, cody, is only one where it won't be trash but it'll still not be actual story telling in a subtle complex and interesting form. it'll be like this forever unless Khan hires a head booker over the EVP's which he won't as that's basically him right now and he's crap.


----------



## Swan-San

And the rating's are really meaningless. it's been in the same range since it's dropped from the first couple weeks. it'll be news once it goes above 1m and doesn't drop past 800-900 consistently. NXT's ratings are completely irrelevant too, means nothing to beat them.


----------



## Prosper

Swan-San said:


> And the rating's are really meaningless. it's been in the same range since it's dropped from the first couple weeks. it'll be news once it goes above 1m and doesn't drop past 800-900 consistently. NXT's ratings are completely irrelevant too, means nothing to beat them.


NXT is a WWE brand that's been around for 10 years. AEW has only been around for 1 year. I would say it means something to beat them on a weekly basis. WWE also seems to think so as the whole reason they even moved them to the USA Network in the first place was to combat them on Wednesday nights.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

From Wrestlenomics. Look at the reducing gap between AEW and RAW/SD.


----------



## DaSlacker

Swan-San said:


> yh man it's a shame, I watch every week hoping they realise they need to write better stories. 4 people can't write a good novel, it needs to be one person, and they need to have the talent for it, I don't think any of them including cody have it. But best case scenario, cody, is only one where it won't be trash but it'll still not be actual story telling in a subtle complex and interesting form. it'll be like this forever unless Khan hires a head booker over the EVP's which he won't as that's basically him right now and he's crap.


It's written for smarks. Generally because nobody has the balls or ability to write for the older fan of pro wrestling or those who got bored with sports entertainment or moved onto MMA.

Like truly devoted fans of anime, comic books and daytime soap operas there is ceiling to for wrestling smarks.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> From Wrestlenomics. Look at the reducing gap between AEW and RAW/SD.


By the end of the year I can see AEW being only 500k-600k viewers away from Raw and SD which is pretty insane for under 2 years. The gap is only about 900k viewers right now.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> By the end of the year I can see AEW being only 500k-600k viewers away from Raw and SD which is pretty insane for under 2 years


and that's not even down to AEW's efforts, lol.

VKM needs to do better. Maybe those people who "provide FeEdBaCk" to AEW should be providing feedback to Vince McMahon. They obviously need it more.


----------



## Erik.

DaSlacker said:


> It's written for smarks. Generally because nobody has the balls or ability to write for the older fan of pro wrestling or those who got bored with sports entertainment or moved onto MMA.
> 
> Like truly devoted fans of anime, comic books and daytime soap operas there is ceiling to for wrestling smarks.


Id hazard a guess that there's more fans of anime and comics than there are wrestling fans. So probably a reason why.


----------



## NXT Only

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I wonder how many AEW viewers are not Raw and SD watchers. I mean NXT+AEW pulling 80% Raw numbers - I suspect there is by in large only one pro-wrestling viewing base and AEW and NXT just splits it on Wednesdays.


Which is why Tuesday night would have been great for AEW with SD going to Friday’s. They wouldn’t be splitting an audience. As much as NXT has declined from what it once was there are still compelling aspects that cause you to go back and forth between shows.


----------



## bdon

I just want good storytelling for all characters, no matter where they are.

I don’t like Shawn Spears. No reason to care. THAT is an issue I’m sure that all of wrestling has with fans.


----------



## RiverFenix

NXT Only said:


> Which is why Tuesday night would have been great for AEW with SD going to Friday’s. They wouldn’t be splitting an audience. As much as NXT has declined from what it once was there are still compelling aspects that cause you to go back and forth between shows.


WWE would have moved NXT to Tuesdays then. Also TNT has NBA games on Tuesdays IIRC.


----------



## RiverFenix

optikk sucks said:


> From Wrestlenomics. Look at the reducing gap between AEW and RAW/SD.


Mostly Raw and SD coming down though. WWE hurting more from empty arenas - completely empty were terrible, and the plexiglass look with spaced out developmentals as weird looking.


----------



## Prosper

NXT Only said:


> Which is why Tuesday night would have been great for AEW with SD going to Friday’s. They wouldn’t be splitting an audience. As much as NXT has declined from what it once was there are still compelling aspects that cause you to go back and forth between shows.


NXT’s positioning was after AEW decided on their night. Whether it was Tuesday or Thursday, NXT would have been placed in the same time slot. They were moved for the sole purpose of stopping their momentum.



bdon said:


> I just want good storytelling for all characters, no matter where they are.
> 
> I don’t like Shawn Spears. No reason to care. THAT is an issue I’m sure that all of wrestling has with fans.


That’s an understandable and a reasonable thing to want. I want that too. But you GOTTA give it time my guy. If someone like you, who is In the top 10 on the list of top AEW detractors in all of wrestling keeps coming back every week, they gotta be doing _something_ right.


----------



## The Wood

Raw and SmackDown dropping down to AEW's level is not good for the business. AEW should have been trying to get to Raw and SmackDown's level from the start. Wrestling having <1 million fans at the end should not be considered a victory, haha.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Raw and SmackDown dropping down to AEW's level is not good for the business. AEW should have been trying to get to Raw and SmackDown's level from the start. Wrestling having <1 million fans at the end should not be considered a victory, haha.


It would be terrible. Tell that asshole Vince to stop driving away the general fan base. If things keep going the way they have been going on both sides, AEW and WWE will be neck and neck at 1.2 -1.3 million viewers by next Summer, with AEW having nowhere else to go but down because there’s no one else interested in watching wrestling in general. Wrestling has lost 9 million viewers in 20 years.


----------



## The Wood

WWE chasing away people is an issue. AEW chasing away people is also an issue. 1.4 million people were willing to give this a chance. Now it's down to ~800k every week. It's not glorious and they're not blameless for chasing away general audiences.


----------



## ElTerrible

NXT Only said:


> Which is why Tuesday night would have been great for AEW with SD going to Friday’s. They wouldn’t be splitting an audience. As much as NXT has declined from what it once was there are still compelling aspects that cause you to go back and forth between shows.


 LOL if AEW went to Tuesday, guess where NXT would be.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> WWE chasing away people is an issue. AEW chasing away people is also an issue. 1.4 million people were willing to give this a chance. Now it's down to ~800k every week. It's not glorious and they're not blameless for chasing away general audiences.


I hold to my opinion, and most likely fact, that a lot of those people were curious WWE weekly watchers. Of course people want to see what the buzz is about. Same reason why most TV series start off hot in the premiere and drop off the following week. That 1.4 number didn’t come from “new” fans. Their real middle ground is probably 1 million. It’s not like AEW had a terrible debut show.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> NXT’s positioning was after AEW decided on their night. Whether it was Tuesday or Thursday, NXT would have been placed in the same time slot. They were moved for the sole purpose of stopping their momentum.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s an understandable and a reasonable thing to want. I want that too. But you GOTTA give it time my guy. If someone like you, who is In the top 10 on the list of top AEW detractors in all of wrestling keeps coming back every week, they gotta be doing _something_ right.


But I’m not a detractor. I’m a lapsed fan who has literally nowhere else to turn to for great wrestling at a national level, man. I left this shit, officially, at 17 years old with sporadic moments of stopping in to find shit.

AEW gives glimpses of Nitro. The Nitro that I remember, but it is always two steps forward, one and a half steps back. I KNOW they can be better. I’m not one who bitches and hopes for “shit”. I’m one who has seen really, really great wrestling television. It is within their capabilities. They can be so, so great at times, then there are times where I can tell they’re half-asking it for whatever reason.

Be great. Book the shows like I know you are capable of and have done.

And to be honest, this is almost always aimed at Cody. It’s in his blood, but he refuses to be accepted as merely a great booker and storyteller, wanting to first be a great wrestler. Dusty is an all-time great, but he isn’t THE one we think of during that time and that’s ok. Doesn’t make him any less great.

Cody has some serious talent sitting on the chess board in front of him. “Make the moves, kid. You can win the long game against Vince and Hunter.”


----------



## The Wood

ElTerrible said:


> LOL if AEW went to Tuesday, guess where NXT would be.


I've got a feeling that WWE would expand as opposed to rescheduling NXT. They probably get a fair bit of money for NXT already. I can see them starting a new show and getting it on FOX or something. WWE is all about making the most money for the most content. If there is a way to get a show on every night of the week, they would take it. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> I hold to my opinion, and most likely fact, that a lot of those people were curious WWE weekly watchers. Of course people want to see what the buzz is about. Same reason why most TV series start off hot in the premiere and drop off the following week. That 1.4 number didn’t come from “new” fans. Their real middle ground is probably 1 million. It’s not like AEW had a terrible debut show.


I don't think they were new fans either -- completely agree with you there. I think there were probably a bunch of current wrestling fans and maybe even some lapsed fans. A non-Vince entity on TNT with Chris Jericho and Jim Ross would have a lot of appeal to people.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> WWE chasing away people is an issue. AEW chasing away people is also an issue. 1.4 million people were willing to give this a chance. Now it's down to ~800k every week. It's not glorious and they're not blameless for chasing away general audiences.


Depends. If the 1,400,000 that tuned in were just from the 2,000,000 that watch Raw and Smackdown and were curious to see what a non-WWE product was like on easily accessible television, then they haven't chased away anyone. 

At the end of the day no one on this forum knows who the extra 800k viewers were and why they stopped watching.


----------



## RiverFenix

Erik. said:


> Depends. If the 1,400,000 that tuned in were just from the 2,000,000 that watch Raw and Smackdown and were curious to see what a non-WWE product was like on easily accessible television, then they haven't chased away anyone.
> 
> At the end of the day no one on this forum knows who the extra 800k viewers were and why they stopped watching.


Or just stopped watching live.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> But I’m not a detractor. I’m a lapsed fan who has literally nowhere else to turn to for great wrestling at a national level, man. I left this shit, officially, at 17 years old with sporadic moments of stopping in to find shit.
> 
> AEW gives glimpses of Nitro. The Nitro that I remember, but it is always two steps forward, one and a half steps back. I KNOW they can be better. I’m not one who bitches and hopes for “shit”. I’m one who has seen really, really great wrestling television. It is within their capabilities. They can be so, so great at times, then there are times where I can tell they’re half-asking it for whatever reason.
> 
> Be great. Book the shows like I know you are capable of and have done.
> 
> And to be honest, this is almost always aimed at Cody. It’s in his blood, but he refuses to be accepted as merely a great booker and storyteller, wanting to first be a great wrestler. Dusty is an all-time great, but he isn’t THE one we think of during that time and that’s ok. Doesn’t make him any less great.
> 
> Cody has some serious talent sitting on the chess board in front of him. “Make the moves, kid. You can win the long game against Vince and Hunter.”


----------



## Klitschko

That first episode I tuned in and personally I hated that episode. I remember Cody vs Sammy and the ending brawl and that was it. Felt like it was just one long ass match after another long ass match with no story. I nearly stopped watching right there but luckly I stuck with it and after a few weeks they started to do more storyline and stuff and I continued watching when I could.

That might be the reason why at least some people stopped watching after that first episode. Plus People really overhyped the first show in their minds before it happened and their expectations were so high that the show obviously couldn't reach them. Not AEW's fault though.


----------



## validreasoning

In 1995/early 96 the combined nitro and raw audience was about 3 million
In 2003 build towards Wrestlemania 19 with Hogan, Vince, rock, Austin, undertaker, HHH, angle, lesnar, Shawn Michaels on tv weekly Raw was averaging just over 3 million viewers
In 2020 there is approximately 3 million people that will watch a pro wrestling show on tv either live + DVR

Wrestling didn't lose 7 million fans (combined audience of raw and nitro in late 98-early 99 was 10 million). Many of those weren't real fans, they were never going to stick around long term, half were gone by 2002


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


>


I don’t know if that is a serious response or a condescending one.

My belief is that with Cody’s natural ability to book and the amount of gifted wrestlers on that roster, they should be doing great. It just CAN’T be Cody in the main storyline. Like Dusty, he doesn’t have the ability to be Ric Flair. You need to give the fans something they haven’t seen before.

Omega, the Bucks (whether you like them or not), Rey Fenix, Moxley to an extent, Jungle Boy, MJF, Luchasaurus, Archer, Darby have the in-ring ability to captivate fans, on a national level, they haven’t seen in decades. Book them accordingly.

Cody isn’t good enough in-ring to be The Man, but he can damn sure tell the story that makes each one of those guys Must See TV weekly. If it were me, you’d have Cody and Dustin putting together a program for every wrestler on the card that night with just enough input from the wrestlers to make a tweak here and there for the in-ring stuff, where it blows the fuck up.

But they haven’t got to the point yet, and it is annoying to watch such wasted collective greatness not find a way to mesh. “Time” is not a given. It is the one resource none of us have to spare.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> I don’t know if that is a serious response or a condescending one.


No it was serious. I was agreeing with your original post.


----------



## rbl85

Guys let's remember that TNT made known that they would be happy with 600K for the first year.

AEW was more or less 300K higher than that before the pandemic.


----------



## Prosper

validreasoning said:


> In 1995/early 96 the combined nitro and raw audience was about 3 million
> In 2003 build towards Wrestlemania 19 with Hogan, Vince, rock, Austin, undertaker, HHH, angle, lesnar, Shawn Michaels on tv weekly Raw was averaging just over 3 million viewers
> In 2020 there is approximately 3 million people that will watch a pro wrestling show on tv either live + DVR
> 
> Wrestling didn't lose 7 million fans (combined audience of raw and nitro in late 98-early 99 was 10 million). *Many of those weren't real fans*, they were never going to stick around long term, half were gone by 2002


Lol you don't know that. No one does.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol you don't know that. No one does.


To be fair, they probably weren't.

Wrestling was a fad in the late 90s. Most of those who watched weren't interested in wrestling before or after. It was just the cool thing to watch at the time.

Almost everyone in my school watched wrestling in the late 90s. Barely anyone watched before and barely anyone watches now. Infact Id say less than 3%.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hoo boy, A 100k victory coming off a PPV and with one of the greatest boxers of all time heavily hyped up and people are going on as if they've just won the Superbowl (As usual)



Erik. said:


> Just think wrestling is scorched earth mate.
> 
> The only new viewers AEW are going to get (live that come across on ratings) are a portion of the 2,000,000 that still watch WWE. Because they're proven live wrestling watchers.


There are still hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who are waiting for a wrestling product that makes sense and want to support a serious product which is why NJPW's expansion into the USA was so popular for years before AEW came along.

AEW could get those viewers they just need to know how to attract them.



optikk sucks said:


> I'm just glad the show ended the way it did. Hot ending = good chance of fans returning next week.
> 
> Open with something fire next week, promise some fireworks during the show and you'll keep those fans tuned in.


That's a hot ending to you? Two guys in their fifties being held back from one another by a crowd of people? I don't know man you're certainly entitled to your opinion but most of the "casual fans" of Tyson commenting on the YouTube video are making comments like "These two are just having fun out there", commenting on him being unable to tear his shirt off, people asking if it's a parody and even someone pointing out how similar it was to Tyson's appearance in 1998 with WWE. Nobody is really commenting on the angle in a serious way or treating it seriously.



Erik. said:


> A wrestling show... That has..... Wrestling matches.
> 
> Incredible.


Kenny and The Bucks, is that one of you?

Wrestling matches should occur but they should be short, punchy and to the point. This is where AEW struggles way too many matches and not enough angles. They don't do many angles well either.



optikk sucks said:


> I hope none of these.
> 
> A good show for me starts off hectic and violent. Keep people interested. Have a dramatic event occur - "Welcome to Dynamite and something is already happening backstage".
> Cut to backstage and Archer's literally on a rampage, destroying everyone and everything in his path. You could start his next feud here or have him carted off by the police. In fact, have him destroy the police. That'll get people loving him, considering what has happened in the past few days.
> They announce that he was going to be in the main event against ??? but now they need to find a last minute replacement [if Archer doesn't turn up]. For this, you could literally put anyone - I'd put Wardlow and then use his win to add fuel to the impending beef with MJF.


Sooo, your idea is to get people loving a top heel by attacking police officers based on a police brutality case that occurred recently? That's assuming that every wrestling fan thinks all cops are the same anyway.

Then you announce that Wardlow (A rookie that not many people care about yet) is in the main event. Doesn't make much sense with all due respect.

Allow me to make your idea better whilst using your ideas:

JR welcomes us to TV and gets word in his head set that something is going on backstage. We cut to the back where we see security guys trying to separate Archer who is putting the boots to Jungle Boy backstage as Jake watches on. Archer is throwing security and staff members aside as kicks the shit out of Jungle Boy who is bleeding profusely on the floor. Eventually a group of cops turn up and have to pull THEIR TASERS on Archer to stop him from continuing his assault as security haul him away. He yells at Jungle that the title shot is rightfully his and that Jungle should've stepped aside.

The promo package and match ends and we cut to the back where Jungle is being loaded up into an ambulance and carted out of the arena. JR speculates on just what is going to happen with the match between Cody and Jungle Boy and blames Archer for ruining tonight's proceedings. Couple of segments throughout of Cody pretending to be concerned but not being over the top about it (Teasing his heel turn further) and Jake giving Archer a pep talk saying he needs to take this company by the throat.

At some point in the show we get an announcement that Luchasaurus has issued a challenge to Archer and that's your main event. Archer wins the match via some Jake Roberts interference (Keeping Luchasaurus strong) and beats the living piss out of Stunt AND Luchasaurus after the match. Show ends with Archer looking menacing, Roberts looking pleased and JR questioning just who can stop this man (Would be much more effective if they hadn't beat him already)

Jungle Boy eventually gets his title shot but Archer costs him the title match. We head into the next PPV with Jungle Boy Vs Lance Archer.



optikk sucks said:


> and that's not even down to AEW's efforts, lol.
> 
> VKM needs to do better. Maybe those people who "provide FeEdBaCk" to AEW should be providing feedback to Vince McMahon. They obviously need it more.


The arrogance is cringe.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Depends. If the 1,400,000 that tuned in were just from the 2,000,000 that watch Raw and Smackdown and were curious to see what a non-WWE product was like on easily accessible television, then they haven't chased away anyone.
> 
> At the end of the day no one on this forum knows who the extra 800k viewers were and why they stopped watching.


Yes, we do. They tuned in to see wrestling, it doesn't matter where they came from. Then they stopped watching because it didn't hook them. If it did, they would still be watching. It's really that simple, haha. 



rbl85 said:


> Guys let's remember that TNT made known that they would be happy with 600K for the first year.
> 
> AEW was more or less 300K higher than that before the pandemic.


No, they said they were expecting 500k people. According to Dave. We don't know who said it, what their position was, whether they were being sincere or sarcastic, or whether they had faith in AEW or not. That's if it happened. Dave wants these guys to succeed, and the 500k number sounded like Meltzer maths, with him speculating what a good TNT number would be and subtracting B/R Live subscribers from that, and I'm not sure the TNT executives give a shit how B/R Live is doing. Yeah, they're all owned by WarnerMedia, but are they run by the same white collars who want a big bonus at the end of the year? 



Chip Chipperson said:


> JR welcomes us to TV and gets word in his head set that something is going on backstage. We cut to the back where we see security guys trying to separate Archer who is putting the boots to Jungle Boy backstage as Jake watches on. Archer is throwing security and staff members aside as kicks the shit out of Jungle Boy who is bleeding profusely on the floor. Eventually a group of cops turn up and have to pull THEIR TASERS on Archer to stop him from continuing his assault as security haul him away. He yells at Jungle that the title shot is rightfully his and that Jungle should've stepped aside.
> 
> The promo package and match ends and we cut to the back where Jungle is being loaded up into an ambulance and carted out of the arena. JR speculates on just what is going to happen with the match between Cody and Jungle Boy and blames Archer for ruining tonight's proceedings. Couple of segments throughout of Cody pretending to be concerned but not being over the top about it (Teasing his heel turn further) and Jake giving Archer a pep talk saying he needs to take this company by the throat.
> 
> At some point in the show we get an announcement that Luchasaurus has issued a challenge to Archer and that's your main event. Archer wins the match via some Jake Roberts interference (Keeping Luchasaurus strong) and beats the living piss out of Stunt AND Luchasaurus after the match. Show ends with Archer looking menacing, Roberts looking pleased and JR questioning just who can stop this man (Would be much more effective if they hadn't beat him already)
> 
> Jungle Boy eventually gets his title shot but Archer costs him the title match. We head into the next PPV with Jungle Boy Vs Lance Archer.


It's crazy how wrestling just works when it is simple and good. That's some fine stuff there. It makes you wonder why wrestling promotions won't try that, haha.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Kenny and The Bucks, is that one of you?
> 
> Wrestling matches should occur but they should be short, punchy and to the point. This is where AEW struggles way too many matches and not enough angles. They don't do many angles well either.


Mate, I've hated watching wrestling matches since I was about 13. I just think it's funny that his criticism was that there would be more wrestling matches than angles on a wrestling show.

Especially when the last show we got, we got 5 matches (none of which went longer than 7 minutes besides the battle royal) and 6 segments (FTR debut, Britt Baker segment, Cage/Moxley build, Cody promo, MJF/Wardlow tease and the Pep rally/Tyson confrontation).


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Mate, I've hated watching wrestling matches since I was about 13. I just think it's funny that his criticism was that there would be more wrestling matches than angles on a wrestling show.
> 
> Especially when the last show we got, we got 5 matches (none of which went longer than 7 minutes besides the battle royal) and 6 segments (FTR debut, Britt Baker segment, Cage/Moxley build, Cody promo, MJF/Wardlow tease and the Pep rally/Tyson confrontation).


Want to bet what next week’s show is heavy on?


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Want to bet what next week’s show is heavy on?


Why would I want to bet?

I enjoyed the show.

What about the week before? Where we had 5 matches and 9 segments? 

If you're telling me that there'll be more matches than segments or feuds, history would prove that you'd be wrong in most cases.


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> In 1995/early 96 the combined nitro and raw audience was about *3 million*
> In 2003 build towards Wrestlemania 19 with Hogan, Vince, rock, Austin, undertaker, HHH, angle, lesnar, Shawn Michaels on tv weekly Raw was averaging just over 3 million viewers
> In 2020 there is approximately 3 million people that will watch a pro wrestling show on tv either live + DVR
> 
> Wrestling didn't lose 7 million fans (combined audience of raw and nitro in late 98-early 99 was 10 million). Many of those weren't real fans, they were never going to stick around long term, half were gone by 2002


Without being pedantic I think it was more than that. Mainly because back then they spoke about it in number of homes rather than number of viewers, like they do now. I mean, I wouldn't argue with the 3 million figure for individual episodes of the weekend shows. But once the Monday Night Wars kicked in that number went up, unless there was a lot dual sampling happening. For example, at the beginning of '96 WWF Raw was averaging say 1.5 million homes and Nitro was slightly more. But viewers is, unless I'm mistaken, calculated at least as 1.5 x homes. I remember the Clash featuring Miss Elizabeth's return being the most watched wrestling show on TBS ever, at that point in time.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

validreasoning said:


> In 1995/early 96 the combined nitro and raw audience was about 3 million
> In 2003 build towards Wrestlemania 19 with Hogan, Vince, rock, Austin, undertaker, HHH, angle, lesnar, Shawn Michaels on tv weekly Raw was averaging just over 3 million viewers
> In 2020 there is approximately 3 million people that will watch a pro wrestling show on tv either live + DVR
> 
> Wrestling didn't lose 7 million fans (combined audience of raw and nitro in late 98-early 99 was 10 million). Many of those weren't real fans, they were never going to stick around long term, half were gone by 2002



You don't know anything about wrestling


There is a difference between the rating 
And the number of viewers

raw in 2003 was 3 the rating not the viewers 

For example

TNA IN 2010 
In January

THE The rating was 1.5 

the the viewers was 2.2 

On January 4, 2010



You don't know anything about Monday night's war


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Another example of the difference between
the rating and the 
Viewership

*TNA Impact Wrestling on Thursday, October 20 scored a 1.35 rating off a first hour 1.38 rating and second hour 1.33 rating. It was the second-highest rating of the year behind March 3 when Sting returned to TNA.

Last year's post-Bound for Glory episode scored a 1.41 overall rating off a first hour 1.47 rating and second hour 1.35 rating. Although the 2011 second hour rating was lower, there wasn't as much of a drop-off from the first to second hour as last year.

-- This year's show averaged 2.0 million viewers compared to 1.9 million viewers last year. Peak viewership during Impact was 2.2 million viewers during the fourth quarter-hour, which was the Knockouts tag match segment*.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lol, its a good number but lets breathe. Its a PPV bump and advertising Tyson.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Another example of the difference between the rating and the 
Viewership


*WWE Raw on Monday, January 2, 2012 scored a 3.10 rating, up from a 2.93 rating the previous two weeks to close 2011. It was the first Raw above the 3.00 mark since the end of November.

Despite the encouraging rating, Raw's viewership was not as encouraging. Raw averaged 4.44 million viewers, down four percent from an average of 4.46 million viewers for the day-after-Christmas edition last week.*


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Allow me to make your idea better whilst using your ideas:
> 
> JR welcomes us to TV and gets word in his head set that something is going on backstage. We cut to the back where we see security guys trying to separate Archer who is putting the boots to Jungle Boy backstage as Jake watches on. Archer is throwing security and staff members aside as kicks the shit out of Jungle Boy who is bleeding profusely on the floor. Eventually a group of cops turn up and have to pull THEIR TASERS on Archer to stop him from continuing his assault as security haul him away. He yells at Jungle that the title shot is rightfully his and that Jungle should've stepped aside.
> 
> The promo package and match ends and we cut to the back where Jungle is being loaded up into an ambulance and carted out of the arena. JR speculates on just what is going to happen with the match between Cody and Jungle Boy and blames Archer for ruining tonight's proceedings. Couple of segments throughout of Cody pretending to be concerned but not being over the top about it (Teasing his heel turn further) and Jake giving Archer a pep talk saying he needs to take this company by the throat.
> 
> At some point in the show we get an announcement that Luchasaurus has issued a challenge to Archer and that's your main event. Archer wins the match via some Jake Roberts interference (Keeping Luchasaurus strong) and beats the living piss out of Stunt AND Luchasaurus after the match. Show ends with Archer looking menacing, Roberts looking pleased and JR questioning just who can stop this man (Would be much more effective if they hadn't beat him already)
> 
> Jungle Boy eventually gets his title shot but Archer costs him the title match. We head into the next PPV with Jungle Boy Vs Lance Archer.
> 
> 
> 
> The arrogance is cringe.


You know what we would get the next day if they were to run your storyline?

-"Why is Lance Archer facing low tier Jungle Boy? "He's buried, he went from Cody to Jungle Boy and now Jungle Boy is gonna get offense on him at a big PPV"
-"Why is this guy wearing a dinosaur mask in the main event of Dynamite? This company likes to push geeks" 
-"Why is Cody involving himself in this angle?" "Cody gotta Cody" "He won the title and he's still gonna beat Archer again in the end burying him further"
-"They made Archer look weak by needing Jake the Snake against a dinosaur"
-"Why is Marko Stunt on my TV?"
-"Why are they only pushing Archer when there are so many other big men?"


There is NO storyline that they can book that won't be shit on by people.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> You know what we would get the next day if they were to run your storyline?
> 
> -"Why is Lance Archer facing low tier Jungle Boy? "He's buried, he went from Cody to Jungle Boy and now Jungle Boy is gonna get offense on him at a big PPV"
> -"Why is this guy wearing a dinosaur mask in the main event of Dynamite? This company likes to push geeks"
> -"Why is Cody involving himself in this angle?" "Cody gotta Cody" "He won the title and he's still gonna beat Archer again in the end burying him further"
> -"They made Archer look weak by needing Jake the Snake against a dinosaur"
> -"Why is Marko Stunt on my TV?"
> -"Why are they only pushing Archer when there are so many other big men?"
> 
> 
> There is NO storyline that they can book that won't be shit on by people.


1. To elevate Jungle Boy. He goes from second match on the card to now working with someone that people deem a star. Archer was a big deal in Japan, a popular TNA act and even had a year or two in WWE. Jungle Boy becomes a bigger deal feuding with Archer and Jungle Boy is in good enough shape to realistically get offense in on Archer (Although it'd have to be done properly)

2. I think Luchasaurus is one of the few guys that everyone actually likes on this board. Admittedly I'd prefer him without the dinosaur mask and to be more serious but he isn't offensive.

3. Cody is a bit player at best. Jungle Boy is going to be the guy to go over on Archer elevating him further. Cody isn't beating Archer again. You could assume the argument would be that Archer is buried but they've already established that he doesn't matter as a main event guy anyway.

4. Depends how it's done. I don't think Luchasaurus is portrayed as a legitimate dinosaur just a big man that likes dressing as one. If Jake distracts him somehow or grabs a foot for a split second allowing Archer to get the job done it works. If Jake is hitting him with a chair and DDTing him for a three count then you're right it would be shit on.

5. Again, it's how Marko is used. If Marko comes running down to save his friend and just cops a big boot to the head that knocks him unconscious he's fine. If he gets the better of Archer for even a second (Like he did Wardlow yesterday) then yes, it would be shit on (And rightly so)

6. I'd push Brian Cage as well. Only big man in AEW that I think is toast and wouldn't push ever again is Brodie Lee.


I don't know man, I think you're underestimating my angle. The guys that usually shit on AEW's angles are usually on the same wave length as me and would probably enjoy seeing that play out on TV. The AEW hardcore fans would love it as well because it'd be happening in AEW.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. To elevate Jungle Boy. He goes from second match on the card to now working with someone that people deem a star. Archer was a big deal in Japan, a popular TNA act and even had a year or two in WWE. Jungle Boy becomes a bigger deal feuding with Archer and Jungle Boy is in good enough shape to realistically get offense in on Archer (Although it'd have to be done properly)
> 
> 2. I think Luchasaurus is one of the few guys that everyone actually likes on this board. Admittedly I'd prefer him without the dinosaur mask and to be more serious but he isn't offensive.
> 
> 3. Cody is a bit player at best. Jungle Boy is going to be the guy to go over on Archer elevating him further. Cody isn't beating Archer again. You could assume the argument would be that Archer is buried but they've already established that he doesn't matter as a main event guy anyway.
> 
> 4. Depends how it's done. I don't think Luchasaurus is portrayed as a legitimate dinosaur just a big man that likes dressing as one. If Jake distracts him somehow or grabs a foot for a split second allowing Archer to get the job done it works. If Jake is hitting him with a chair and DDTing him for a three count then you're right it would be shit on.
> 
> 5. Again, it's how Marko is used. If Marko comes running down to save his friend and just cops a big boot to the head that knocks him unconscious he's fine. If he gets the better of Archer for even a second (Like he did Wardlow yesterday) then yes, it would be shit on (And rightly so)
> 
> 6. I'd push Brian Cage as well. Only big man in AEW that I think is toast and wouldn't push ever again is Brodie Lee.
> 
> 
> I don't know man, I think you're underestimating my angle.


Im not saying that your angle is not cool. I like it actually and gets a bunch done. But it won’t change people’s minds for the most part if they ran with it. You will always have people that say this can be done different or that can be better if done this way, but it doesn’t matter in the end. You’re always gonna have people shitting on storylines and angles regardless. And you’re always gonna have people that love them. The sooner AEW realizes that (if they haven’t already) the better.

You think AEW detractors care about Jungle Boy being elevated? Lol Yeah right, they only care about their favorite wrestlers getting the spotlight, and even then they will still complain. That’s how wrestling fans have always been. Very weird bunch of people.


----------



## bdon

Have SOMETHING planned for the guys coming out of programs, ESPECIALLY when they lose. If you, the booker who is narrating the story, don’t have anything and leave them off the card, you have effectively told the reader that this guy is weak and no longer an integral part of the story going forward. His portion in this story is finished.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Im not saying that your angle is not cool. I like it actually and gets a bunch done. But it won’t change people’s minds for the most part if they ran with it. You will always have people that say this can be done different or that can be better if done this way, but it doesn’t matter in the end. You’re always gonna have people shitting on storylines and angles regardless. And you’re always gonna have people that love them. The sooner AEW realizes that (if they haven’t already) the better.
> 
> You think AEW detractors care about Jungle Boy being elevated? Lol Yeah right, they only care about their favorite wrestlers getting the spotlight, and even then they will still complain. That’s how wrestling fans have always been. Very weird bunch of people.


Have I not mentioned Jungle Boy deserving of some kind of angle dating back to November when I FIRST outed Cody as hogging the storylines for himself?

Now, I have bitched about Jungle Boy being MJF’s opponent coming off a big win over Cody. How does that make sense? A guy who just beat Cody Rhodes somehow gets dropped down to Jungle Boy status while Cody is the protagonist in 8 straight weeks’ worth of television culminating in him being the first TNT champion. And I’m not even a big MJF fan, but I know storytelling.

At least in @Chip Chipperson’s rendition, Archer has SOMETHING to keep the audience, the viewer, the reader interested in where his character goes from here. Will he just start flying off the handle and killing everyone? Will he demolish Jungle Boy without holding back, unlike how he held back against Marko Stunt? How far will his reign of pain go before the widely adored Luchasaurus loses his cool, finally unleashing the anger and beastly side everyone has seen in him since Day 1?

You can easily storyboard this shit into weeks’ worth of compelling stories that gives the audience reason to come back for more.

I know I’m probably carbon dating myself here, but could you imagine if at the end of the Batman episode, Cesar Romero’s Joker simply...disappeared for a few weeks and acted like nothing had just happened to him?

If you want to build a living, breathing universe that captivates and immerses the audience, no matter what rules you place upon the characters in your universe: actions and no actions must have consequences.

Archer, like Omega and Shawn Spears before him, is done. Brodie Lee Has WWE fan following, so I’m not sure how far Khan will bend in keeping those fans tuning in despite the story going nowhere. So, Brodie might be protected since he’s WWE.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> You know what we would get the next day if they were to run your storyline?
> 
> -"Why is Lance Archer facing low tier Jungle Boy? "He's buried, he went from Cody to Jungle Boy and now Jungle Boy is gonna get offense on him at a big PPV"
> -"Why is this guy wearing a dinosaur mask in the main event of Dynamite? This company likes to push geeks"
> -"Why is Cody involving himself in this angle?" "Cody gotta Cody" "He won the title and he's still gonna beat Archer again in the end burying him further"
> -"They made Archer look weak by needing Jake the Snake against a dinosaur"
> -"Why is Marko Stunt on my TV?"
> -"Why are they only pushing Archer when there are so many other big men?"
> 
> 
> There is NO storyline that they can book that won't be shit on by people.


That's not true. Once you have Archer beaten by Cody, he's done as a main eventer, so it makes perfect sense to put him against babyfaces you have a chance of pushing -- especially if it's a good visual match. I'll speak up and admit I am not the biggest fan of Luchasaurus -- the gimmick or the worker. He's just a bit stuff and clumsy and the gimmick is...well, it is what it is. It's not a main event gimmick. But it'd be fine to have him as Jungle Boy's buddy and taking the hot tag. This is the best use of him until you can get him some more training and get him proper polished. 

I don't even think Cody's detractors want him eradicated from television forever. Well, I'll have to check with bdon on that one. And if Cody is eventually going to be a heel (I don't like this), then him interacting with Jungle Boy NOW is perfect seed-planting for years down the line. And no one would say that about Archer. He's a heel. Him shining up Luchasaurus and giving him an out is fine. Marko Stunt shouldn't be on TV, true. Archer is probably the best big guy AEW has. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> Im not saying that your angle is not cool. I like it actually and gets a bunch done. But it won’t change people’s minds for the most part if they ran with it. You will always have people that say this can be done different or that can be better if done this way, but it doesn’t matter in the end. You’re always gonna have people shitting on storylines and angles regardless. And you’re always gonna have people that love them. The sooner AEW realizes that (if they haven’t already) the better.
> 
> You think AEW detractors care about Jungle Boy being elevated? Lol Yeah right, they only care about their favorite wrestlers getting the spotlight, and even then they will still complain. That’s how wrestling fans have always been. Very weird bunch of people.


Things can actually be good or bad. They can actually be effective or ineffective. _No one_ complained about MJF vs. Jungle Boy. That's because it doesn't insult your intelligence. It's possible not to do that. The promotion shouldn't say "Well, people aren't going to like us anyway, so why try?" They should be implementing best instincts to run angles and programs that make sense. It's not impossible to make something that is critically well-received, haha.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That's not true. Once you have Archer beaten by Cody, he's done as a main eventer, so it makes perfect sense to put him against babyfaces you have a chance of pushing -- especially if it's a good visual match. I'll speak up and admit I am not the biggest fan of Luchasaurus -- the gimmick or the worker. He's just a bit stuff and clumsy and the gimmick is...well, it is what it is. It's not a main event gimmick. But it'd be fine to have him as Jungle Boy's buddy and taking the hot tag. This is the best use of him until you can get him some more training and get him proper polished.
> 
> I don't even think Cody's detractors want him eradicated from television forever. Well, I'll have to check with bdon on that one. And if Cody is eventually going to be a heel (I don't like this), then him interacting with Jungle Boy NOW is perfect seed-planting for years down the line. And no one would say that about Archer. He's a heel. Him shining up Luchasaurus and giving him an out is fine. Marko Stunt shouldn't be on TV, true. Archer is probably the best big guy AEW has.
> 
> 
> 
> Things can actually be good or bad. They can actually be effective or ineffective. _No one_ complained about MJF vs. Jungle Boy. That's because it doesn't insult your intelligence. It's possible not to do that. The promotion shouldn't say "Well, people aren't going to like us anyway, so why try?" They should be implementing best instincts to run angles and programs that make sense. It's not impossible to make something that is critically well-received, haha.


Well, I’m actually Cody Rhodes, and I fucking hate myself. I get ready for bed at night by taking my vitamins like the Hulkster always told me to do, brushing my chiclets to look like a star like my good friend “Dwayne” taught me, and proceeding to stare at the image looking back in the mirror as it haunts me with taunting chants of “time to play the game!”


----------



## The Wood

That settles that. I sometimes have a feeling that Cody would rather be in a movie called Baseball Dog or something than wrestling.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That settles that. I sometimes have a feeling that Cody would rather be in a movie called Baseball Dog or something than wrestling.


He just wants to be liked. Period.

Vince and Hunter did a number on the kid’s psyche and vision of his own self worth.


----------



## thorn123

Glad viewership went up...how many watch fite tv? Anyone got numbers....each persons opinion is valid, I just know I have enjoyed AEW since inception, including no crowds. Can’t comment on NXT or WWE no crowd wrestling...stopped my 35 year streak with WWE after kofi v Brock.


----------



## Pippen94

From observer don did maybe 115-120k - aew record


----------



## EmbassyForever

Pippen94 said:


> From observer don did maybe 115-120k - aew record


Damn that's insanely good.


----------



## Peerless

I'm surprised it did that many considering Mox-Brodie Lee was the headliner coming in to the event. I was expecting it to be their lowest PPV buys due to quarantine and relatively weak build.


----------



## Erik.

AEW actually lost nearly 50,000 viewers during the Tyson segment. 

Shida a huge draw this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> AEW actually lost nearly 50,000 viewers during the Tyson segment.
> 
> Shida a huge draw this week.


Holy Shida!


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> AEW actually lost nearly 50,000 viewers during the Tyson segment.
> 
> Shida a huge draw this week.


Lately Shida's matches are doing really good in the ratings


----------



## rbl85

AEW opened with 863K viewers so they didn't lost that much during the show.


Q1 : Young Bucks & Matt Hardy vs. Private Party & Joey Janela : 861K
Q2 : for the end of the six-man tag, The former Revival debut and Brian Cage vs. Lee Johnson with Jon Moxley and Taz doing interviews. : 837K (loss of 26k)
Q3 : promos by Britt Baker and Chris Jericho. : 777K (loss of 60K, people don't seem to like promos)
Q4 : Hikaru Shida vs. Christi Jaynes and the beginning of a Cody interview : 844K (gain of 67k)
Q5 : End of the Cody promo and mostly Kip Sabian & Jimmy Havoc vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky : 789K (loss of 55K)
Q6 : Ending of the Sabian & Havoc vs. Kazarian & Sky match, the MJF promo, Battle Royal intros and the beginning of the Battle Royal. : 816K (gain of 27K)
Q7 : The Battle Royal and highlights of Stadium Stampede : 869k (gain of 53K)
Q8 : the Inner Circle celebration and Mike Tyson angle. : 827 K (loss of 47K)


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 861K viewers so they didn't lost that much during the show.
> 
> The peak of the show was the Battle royal with 869K, those ratings are so strange because i think i'm a big fan and yet i was doing Something else during the battle royal XD


I’d imagine it was a case of everyone not thinking to even change the channel, forgetting the TV was even on.

I know I wasn’t watching, but I looked up once to see if they’d got rid of the fat and got to the meat potatoes. I see Wardlow, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF, and Badass Billy Gunn in there, and that is when I decide it is time to focus on the show.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I’d imagine it was a case of everyone not thinking to even change the channel, forgetting the TV was even on.


Assuming things because they don’t fit your agenda. Nice.

Because in your eyes, everyone doesn’t like battle royals. Same old shit bdon.


----------



## Erik.

Almost every single non match segment lost viewers for NXT.

You can see why some companies feature more or longer matches. They're notoriously not a draw.


----------



## rbl85

While we like the promos and the vignettes, we have admit that those things are ratings killers.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> While we like the promos and the vignettes, we have admit that those things are ratings killers.


NXT lost 141,000 from back to back segments. That probably killed them. AEW lost 60,000 from Britt and Jericho back to back segments. 

Looks like MJF finally gained viewers with a promo though. Nice to see.


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> NXT lost 141,000 from back to back segments. That probably killed them. AEW lost 60,000 from Britt and Jericho back to back segments.
> 
> Looks like MJF finally gained viewers with a promo though. Nice to see.


It was 2 min max promo so hard to tell if it had any incidence on the rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> Almost every single non match segment lost viewers for NXT.
> 
> You can see why some companies feature more or longer matches. They're notoriously not a draw.


Talking in the middle of the ring is BORING. Like who actually still enjoys these segments. They used to work; not anymore.

When WWE used to open up every single RAW or SD with a talking promo to set up a match or an angle, fans became jaded.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> Talking in the middle of the ring is BORING. Like who actually still enjoys these segments. They used to work; not anymore.
> 
> When WWE used to open up every single RAW or SD with a talking promo to set up a match or an angle, fans became jaded.


They still work with a crowd.

What make Cody's promos so good is the reactions of the crowd.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> They still work with a crowd.
> 
> What make Cody's promos so good is the reactions of the crowd.


I guess if it’s not an overused segment then it’s ok. But when WWE/TNA did this every week, man it got boring.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Assuming things because they don’t fit your agenda. Nice.
> 
> Because in your eyes, everyone doesn’t like battle royals. Same old shit bdon.


Did you think it was good?


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Did you think it was good?


What we think on this forum means nothing.

This forum is not representative at all about what the majority of peoples watching wrestling like or don't like.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> While we like the promos and the vignettes, we have admit that those things are ratings killers.


Not if they're done properly.

I can't believe I'm going to agree with Optikk of all people but he's right when he says an in ring promo is boring. We know that AEW has access to a pool, luxury boxes and according to Google a 25,000 square foot sports bar, restaurants, a two story party zone including cabanas, spa and all sorts of shit. Instead of having guys cut promos backstage or in the ring why not utilise these surroundings?

For example, Cody's promo this week could've been cut in a restaurant with him drinking on a nice wine with a beautiful meal in front of him. We could have Jericho and The Inner Circle commandeer a luxury box and hang out in there. How cool would it be to see the likes of an Adam Page just chilling out in the two party zone as he cuts his promo? AEW even had Inner Circle arrive in a limo a couple episodes ago why not cut a promo inside the flashy limo?


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not if they're done properly.
> 
> I can't believe I'm going to agree with Optikk of all people but he's right when he says an in ring promo is boring. We know that AEW has access to a pool, luxury boxes and according to Google a 25,000 square foot sports bar, restaurants, a two story party zone including cabanas, spa and all sorts of shit. Instead of having guys cut promos backstage or in the ring why not utilise these surroundings?
> 
> For example, Cody's promo this week could've been cut in a restaurant with him drinking on a nice wine with a beautiful meal in front of him. We could have Jericho and The Inner Circle commandeer a luxury box and hang out in there. How cool would it be to see the likes of an Adam Page just chilling out in the two party zone as he cuts his promo? AEW even had Inner Circle arrive in a limo a couple episodes ago why not cut a promo inside the flashy limo?


I was talking about back to back promos and vignettes.

You can have some but it really need to be scattered.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not if they're done properly.
> 
> I can't believe I'm going to agree with Optikk of all people but he's right when he says an in ring promo is boring. We know that AEW has access to a pool, luxury boxes and according to Google a 25,000 square foot sports bar, restaurants, a two story party zone including cabanas, spa and all sorts of shit. Instead of having guys cut promos backstage or in the ring why not utilise these surroundings?
> 
> For example, Cody's promo this week could've been cut in a restaurant with him drinking on a nice wine with a beautiful meal in front of him. We could have Jericho and The Inner Circle commandeer a luxury box and hang out in there. How cool would it be to see the likes of an Adam Page just chilling out in the two party zone as he cuts his promo? AEW even had Inner Circle arrive in a limo a couple episodes ago why not cut a promo inside the flashy limo?


Adam Page getting promo time? That may make him too popular for Cody’s liking.

Nah. His ass can sit in quarantine until it is time for match, match, match, match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 863K viewers so they didn't lost that much during the show.
> 
> 
> Q1 : Young Bucks & Matt Hardy vs. Private Party & Joey Janela : 861K
> Q2 : for the end of the six-man tag, The former Revival debut and Brian Cage vs. Lee Johnson with Jon Moxley and Taz doing interviews. : 837K (loss of 26k)
> Q3 : promos by Britt Baker and Chris Jericho. : 777K (loss of 60K, people don't seem to like promos)
> Q4 : Hikaru Shida vs. Christi Jaynes and the beginning of a Cody interview : 844K (gain of 67k)
> Q5 : End of the Cody promo and mostly Kip Sabian & Jimmy Havoc vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky : 789K (loss of 55K)
> Q6 : Ending of the Sabian & Havoc vs. Kazarian & Sky match, the MJF promo, Battle Royal intros and the beginning of the Battle Royal. : 816K (gain of 27K)
> Q7 : The Battle Royal and highlights of Stadium Stampede : 869k (gain of 53K)
> Q8 : the Inner Circle celebration and Mike Tyson angle. : 827 K (loss of 47K)


......but..... but...... we needz moar promo 

video promos, which i really like - also loses ratings

talking happens, and people switch - which is shit, as you need talking for the story

but whatchu gonna do?

in the end, no matter how much some hate it - telling the story in the shoulder content is kinda working in modern times - fans who are interested in the story, seeks it out on socials these days. That is why so many wrestlers are ’working’ on twitter


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ......but..... but...... we needz moar promo


AEW fans burying themselves here.

The ratings die every time a promo is cut because nobody is invested in AEW's characters and if the same thing happens to WWE then it'd mean nobody is invested in theirs either. You think back in the day people were tuning out during a Rock or Austin promo? No chance.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW fans burying themselves here.
> 
> The ratings die every time a promo is cut because nobody is invested in AEW's characters and if the same thing happens to WWE then it'd mean nobody is invested in theirs either. You think back in the day people were tuning out during a Rock or Austin promo? No chance.


oh please, the promos in AEW are steller / i love their video packages

but if people are tuning out, what conclusion is there to make?

1. Either the promo is shit
or 2. People prefer matches > promos

time to take a breath and realise, while we are very much smart marks, we do indeed not know how to run a f’kn wrestling company


----------



## rbl85

Usually when AEW does a promo/vignette and at the same time NXT is having a match, AEW lose viewers and NXT gain viewers (the same thing happen in the other direction)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh please, the promos in AEW are steller / i love their video packages
> 
> but if people are tuning out, what conclusion is there to make?
> 
> 1. Either the promo is shit
> or 2. People prefer matches > promos
> 
> time to take a breath and realise, while we are very much smart marks, we do indeed not know how to run a f’kn wrestling company


They do good video packages I'll agree but if I'm not invested in the people involved in the packages why would I care? For example, they did one on Darby Allin the other week but it was uninteresting because we have no reason to care about Darby. Same with promos if I'm invested in a guy I care what he has to say if I'm not I'll just not watch.

If the general public preferred matches over promos then ROH would be the number one company in the world and worth billions of dollars. About a decade and a half ago they had the greatest pure wrestling roster in the world.

And again, as I said here earlier today who says one of us (Or many of us) isn't running a wrestling promotion? Granted it's not AEW but I guarantee that there is at least one indy wrestling promoter posting on this board somewhere. It very well could be in this section.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> They do good video packages I'll agree but if I'm not invested in the people involved in the packages why would I care? For example, they did one on Darby Allin the other week but it was uninteresting because we have no reason to care about Darby. Same with promos if I'm invested in a guy I care what he has to say if I'm not I'll just not watch.
> 
> If the general public preferred matches over promos then ROH would be the number one company in the world and worth billions of dollars. About a decade and a half ago they had the greatest pure wrestling roster in the world.
> 
> And again, as I said here earlier today who says one of us (Or many of us) isn't running a wrestling promotion? Granted it's not AEW but I guarantee that there is at least one indy wrestling promoter posting on this board somewhere. It very well could be in this section.


Hard to be invested if you don't watch the vignettes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> They do good video packages I'll agree but if I'm not invested in the people involved in the packages why would I care? For example, they did one on Darby Allin the other week but it was uninteresting because we have no reason to care about Darby. Same with promos if I'm invested in a guy I care what he has to say if I'm not I'll just not watch.
> 
> If the general public preferred matches over promos then ROH would be the number one company in the world and worth billions of dollars. About a decade and a half ago they had the greatest pure wrestling roster in the world.
> 
> And again, as I said here earlier today who says one of us (Or many of us) isn't running a wrestling promotion? Granted it's not AEW but I guarantee that there is at least one indy wrestling promoter posting on this board somewhere. It very well could be in this section.


if ROH could strike a primetime big network deal, they very well might be

don’t see that happening though as they currently stand

the point i was making is - there’s been complaints for a long time on their match to promo ratio

i’m saying, it looks like they have the balance right - they are telling the story they want in enough promos that they do no lose more viewers

it cant be helped if you don‘t like darby or bdon hates cody - that is a discussion about promo content and focus

but match to promo ratio is fine


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if ROH could strike a primetime big network deal, they very well might be
> 
> don’t see that happening though as they currently stand
> 
> the point i was making is - there’s been complaints for a long time on their match to promo ratio
> 
> i’m saying, it looks like they have the balance right - they are telling the story they want in enough promos that they do no lose more viewers
> 
> it cant be helped if you don‘t like darby or bdon hates cody - that is a discussion about promo content and focus
> 
> but match to promo ratio is fine


ROH couldn't strike a primetime big network deal because the mainstream wrestling fan does not care about good wrestling matches.

I like Darby I'm simply suggesting promos don't work because nobody cares about their guys (Bar a few). Sad but true.

Match to promo ratio is fine some weeks and some weeks it is not. There was a recent episode where it was pointless match after pointless match after pointless match. One of the worst episodes they've had in a while.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 863K viewers so they didn't lost that much during the show.
> 
> 
> Q1 : Young Bucks & Matt Hardy vs. Private Party & Joey Janela : 861K
> Q2 : for the end of the six-man tag, The former Revival debut and Brian Cage vs. Lee Johnson with Jon Moxley and Taz doing interviews. : 837K (loss of 26k)
> Q3 : promos by Britt Baker and Chris Jericho. : 777K (loss of 60K, people don't seem to like promos)
> Q4 : Hikaru Shida vs. Christi Jaynes and the beginning of a Cody interview : 844K (gain of 67k)
> Q5 : End of the Cody promo and mostly Kip Sabian & Jimmy Havoc vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky : 789K (loss of 55K)
> Q6 : Ending of the Sabian & Havoc vs. Kazarian & Sky match, the MJF promo, Battle Royal intros and the beginning of the Battle Royal. : 816K (gain of 27K)
> Q7 : The Battle Royal and highlights of Stadium Stampede : 869k (gain of 53K)
> Q8 : the Inner Circle celebration and Mike Tyson angle. : 827 K (loss of 47K)


Would be interested to see how commercial breaks factor into the numbers - if they even do. I just can't imagine End of tag, Revival Debut, Cage's first match with Moxley on mic would lose people. 

I wonder if the networks could somehow get minute by minute data from Neilson. Pro-wrestling would be really niche in needing that level of feedback so maybe it's not available.


----------



## ElTerrible

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 863K viewers so they didn't lost that much during the show.
> 
> 
> Q1 : Young Bucks & Matt Hardy vs. Private Party & Joey Janela : 861K
> Q2 : for the end of the six-man tag, The former Revival debut and Brian Cage vs. Lee Johnson with Jon Moxley and Taz doing interviews. : 837K (loss of 26k)
> Q3 : promos by Britt Baker and Chris Jericho. : 777K (loss of 60K, people don't seem to like promos)
> Q4 : Hikaru Shida vs. Christi Jaynes and the beginning of a Cody interview : 844K (gain of 67k)
> Q5 : End of the Cody promo and mostly Kip Sabian & Jimmy Havoc vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky : 789K (loss of 55K)
> Q6 : Ending of the Sabian & Havoc vs. Kazarian & Sky match, the MJF promo, Battle Royal intros and the beginning of the Battle Royal. : 816K (gain of 27K)
> Q7 : The Battle Royal and highlights of Stadium Stampede : 869k (gain of 53K)
> Q8 : the Inner Circle celebration and Mike Tyson angle. : 827 K (loss of 47K)


Do they exclude commercials from these ratings breakdowns and say also the first 60-90 seconds after the commericals ended?

Cause to me this looks like a whole lot of nothing, unless the ratings measuring technique is that specific.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> Hard to be invested if you don't watch the vignettes.


Maybe they tried but the vignettes didn't spark their interest...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Did you think it was good?


Doesn't matter what I think in the grand scheme of things. If it keeps people tuned in, it was the right thing to do. It's all subjective, but AEW will stick to what the majority wants.

I should also add that they should aim to please all 800-900k of their viewers or you'll get low points of 600k. It's all about learning;I really hope they do not fuck up like WCW/TNA/WWE. Pro-wrestling needs a shot up its ass or it's game over for an already niche product.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> While we like the promos and the vignettes, we have admit that those things are ratings killers.


AEW has only 3 people who are good on the mic. Only two of them are established stars, and the other is a young up and comer who hasn't had his breakout moment yet. That some talentless individual like Britt Baker loses viewers during a promo is not surprising at all. 

Promos and characters are how you bring in the fans. It's why Moxley and Jericho are the biggest draws on the show.


----------



## Bosnian21

Pippen94 said:


> From observer don did maybe 115-120k - aew record


That’s crazy. I was thinking 70-80k buys would be good considering the economy and them typically doing 100k buys.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Pretty impressive if they set a company record given the circumstances.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thinking about all the people comparing to TNA ratings from 10 years ago

meanwhile, TNAs biggest selling PPV ever was 60k i think

(credit: twitter)


----------



## rbl85

ElTerrible said:


> Do they exclude commercials from these ratings breakdowns and say also the first 60-90 seconds after the commericals ended?
> 
> Cause to me this looks like a whole lot of nothing, unless the ratings measuring technique is that specific.


It does not exclude commercials


----------



## Klitschko

I honestly think if WWE went back full time to the ppv model that they could not get 100k for their ppvs with the shit that they put out constantly. Compare double or nothing and MITB for example.

One was a solid show, even if it was AEW's weakest ppv so far and the other was a 2 and a half hour show that felt like a RAW, minus the Mcintyre/Rollins match. Hell it was RAW. They didn't try to change up the stage in any way even. Just tossed a money in the bank graphic and called it a day.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Thinking about all the people comparing to TNA ratings from 10 years ago
> 
> meanwhile, TNAs biggest selling PPV ever was 60k i think
> 
> (credit: twitter)


says it all.

Also TNA's reach was overestimated, because Netflix and other streaming services were in their infancy. Competition was a lot less back then. More people were also paying for cable back then.

the marks on this forum want you to think otherwise to fit their agenda.


----------



## RiverFenix

100K buys at $50 a pop would be $5M - how much of that does AEW get? How much goes to the provider(s)?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> 100K buys at $50 a pop would be $5M - how much of that does AEW get? How much goes to the provider(s)?


Google says 50%

not sure how true that is


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Have I not mentioned Jungle Boy deserving of some kind of angle dating back to November when I FIRST outed Cody as hogging the storylines for himself?
> 
> Now, I have bitched about Jungle Boy being MJF’s opponent coming off a big win over Cody. How does that make sense? A guy who just beat Cody Rhodes somehow gets dropped down to Jungle Boy status while Cody is the protagonist in 8 straight weeks’ worth of television culminating in him being the first TNT champion. And I’m not even a big MJF fan, but I know storytelling.
> 
> At least in @Chip Chipperson’s rendition, Archer has SOMETHING to keep the audience, the viewer, the reader interested in where his character goes from here. Will he just start flying off the handle and killing everyone? Will he demolish Jungle Boy without holding back, unlike how he held back against Marko Stunt? How far will his reign of pain go before the widely adored Luchasaurus loses his cool, finally unleashing the anger and beastly side everyone has seen in him since Day 1?
> 
> You can easily storyboard this shit into weeks’ worth of compelling stories that gives the audience reason to come back for more.
> 
> I know I’m probably carbon dating myself here, but could you imagine if at the end of the Batman episode, Cesar Romero’s Joker simply...disappeared for a few weeks and acted like nothing had just happened to him?
> 
> If you want to build a living, breathing universe that captivates and immerses the audience, no matter what rules you place upon the characters in your universe: actions and no actions must have consequences.
> 
> Archer, like Omega and Shawn Spears before him, is done. Brodie Lee Has WWE fan following, so I’m not sure how far Khan will bend in keeping those fans tuning in despite the story going nowhere. So, Brodie might be protected since he’s WWE.


I don't remember your posts from that far back. I only remember from the last 30 days. Like I said before, MJF was off of TV for weeks and they needed to get him in the ring with a notable talent, which worked out flawlessly for both guys. MJF vs Mox was too early to run with. ALL OUT may even still be too early. Stop ignoring all of the details and generalizing everything. The storytelling is fine. It's not the best, but it's fine. MJF is now coming off of a win at DON, not happy that Cody is champion before him, now we will see how things pan out in the coming weeks. Let storylines play out before you shit on them. For all we know, MJF and Wardlow can go on to ruin the Cody/Jungle Boy match next week, then we get a renewed Cody/MJF feud with MJF winning the title. Or they can start the Mox/MJF program after Fyter Fest.

Just because Archer wasn't immediately on TV on the post-show doesn't mean that audiences are no longer interested in him or that they have nothing in store for him lol. How about you chill out and wait to see what happens? Was Orton on the post-show after losing to Edge at Mania? Was Lesnar on the post-show? Was Sasha Banks on the post-show after losing to Becky at HIAC? Negative to all of that. Fans haven't fallen out of love with them and they're not "buried". 

Omega is done? You're insane if you think that Omega won't eventually be the top guy in the company. You're also insane to think that he's not over. Kenny Omega is so damn good that he can literally get over at a drop of a dime. Just as easy as it was for Hangman to get over by giving him a glass of whiskey. The guy was over AF before the pandemic and you're writing him off like its a wrap on his career just because Matt Hardy got some shine for 3 weeks and he lost to Moxley (which was absolutely the right choice).

What makes you think that if Shawn Spears leaves TV for 3-4 weeks, then comes back to cut a promo talking about how he has "changed", then goes on an undefeated streak of sorts, that he can't get over again to TNT Title level? It happens all the time in wrestling. You're writing people off when you have no idea what's to come.



The Wood said:


> That's not true. Once you have Archer beaten by Cody, he's done as a main eventer, so it makes perfect sense to put him against babyfaces you have a chance of pushing -- especially if it's a good visual match. I'll speak up and admit I am not the biggest fan of Luchasaurus -- the gimmick or the worker. He's just a bit stuff and clumsy and the gimmick is...well, it is what it is. It's not a main event gimmick. But it'd be fine to have him as Jungle Boy's buddy and taking the hot tag. This is the best use of him until you can get him some more training and get him proper polished.
> 
> I don't even think Cody's detractors want him eradicated from television forever. Well, I'll have to check with bdon on that one. And if Cody is eventually going to be a heel (I don't like this), then him interacting with Jungle Boy NOW is perfect seed-planting for years down the line. And no one would say that about Archer. He's a heel. Him shining up Luchasaurus and giving him an out is fine. Marko Stunt shouldn't be on TV, true. Archer is probably the best big guy AEW has.
> 
> 
> 
> Things can actually be good or bad. They can actually be effective or ineffective. _No one_ complained about MJF vs. Jungle Boy. That's because it doesn't insult your intelligence. It's possible not to do that. The promotion shouldn't say "Well, people aren't going to like us anyway, so why try?" They should be implementing best instincts to run angles and programs that make sense. It's not impossible to make something that is critically well-received, haha.


Lol your homeboy @bdon and some others were complaining for weeks about MJF vs Jungle Boy. "How is MJF going from Cody to Jungle Boy! This is a travesty! What a downgrade! Cody is looking better and taking all of the good storylines for himself when MJF gets nothing!" Completely ignoring the fact that MJF had been gone for multiple weeks. I said that MJF needed to showcase himself as a worthy in-ring talent, not just worthy on the mic, and needed to build up some notable wins. And that's exactly what he did. He looks even better coming out of DON and shut up a lot of people who said he couldn't go in the ring at a high level. The day after DON, so many on here were giving the guy props and going back on their original assessment of the guy. Like I said, everything will be shat on by some people, and then you will have others that look at it as how it should be looked at.

Archer is not done as a main eventer. If they want to make him a main eventer then that's what he will be. Stop writing talent off when you have no idea what storylines they have in store for anyone in the future. Archer can easily be a main eventer this year or next. Your perception of him currently or anyone else's perception of him doesn't equal future perception. Bray Wyatt was "done" as a main eventer on multiple occasions after being beaten by both The Undertaker and John Cena, now he's back in the main event with new storylines, more over than he has ever been. Drew McIntyre was "done" as a prospective main eventer after being buried by The Shield, now he's main eventing WMania and WWE Champion.

Cody will eventually be a heel which will be great, especially for his character. I think those planted seeds can start with Darby Allin. Jungle Boy wouldn't be a bad option either. 



bdon said:


> I’d imagine it was a case of everyone not thinking to even change the channel, forgetting the TV was even on.
> 
> I know I wasn’t watching, but I looked up once to see if they’d got rid of the fat and got to the meat potatoes. I see Wardlow, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF, and Badass Billy Gunn in there, and that is when I decide it is time to focus on the show.


This is stupidity and a complete opinion. Stop spinning all of the good news that this company gets into negative narratives that discredit the brand. And you were DEFINITELY watching. You watch every minute of the show every week just like most of us here.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't remember your posts from that far back. I only remember from the last 30 days. Like I said before, MJF was off of TV for weeks and they needed to get him in the ring with a notable talent, which worked out flawlessly for both guys. MJF vs Mox was too early to run with. ALL OUT may even still be too early. Stop ignoring all of the details and generalizing everything. The storytelling is fine. It's not the best, but it's fine. MJF is now coming off of a win at DON, not happy that Cody is champion before him, now we will see how things pan out in the coming weeks. Let storylines play out before you shit on them. For all we know, MJF and Wardlow can go on to ruin the Cody/Jungle Boy match next week, then we get a renewed Cody/MJF feud with MJF winning the title. Or they can start the Mox/MJF program after Fyter Fest.
> 
> Just because Archer wasn't immediately on TV on the post-show doesn't mean that audiences are no longer interested in him or that they have nothing in store for him lol. How about you chill out and wait to see what happens? Was Orton on the post-show after losing to Edge at Mania? Was Lesnar on the post-show? Was Sasha Banks on the post-show after losing to Becky at HIAC? Negative to all of that. Fans haven't fallen out of love with them and they're not "buried".
> 
> Omega is done? You're insane if you think that Omega won't eventually be the top guy in the company. You're also insane to think that he's not over. Kenny Omega is so damn good that he can literally get over at a drop of a dime. Just as easy as it was for Hangman to get over by giving him a glass of whiskey. The guy was over AF before the pandemic and you're writing him off like its a wrap on his career just because Matt Hardy got some shine for 3 weeks and he lost to Moxley (which was absolutely the right choice).
> 
> What makes you think that if Shawn Spears leaves TV for 3-4 weeks, then comes back to cut a promo talking about how he has "changed", then goes on an undefeated streak of sorts, that he can't get over again to TNT Title level? It happens all the time in wrestling. You're writing people off when you have no idea what's to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol your homeboy @bdon and some others were complaining for weeks about MJF vs Jungle Boy. "How is MJF going from Cody to Jungle Boy! This is a travesty! What a downgrade! Cody is looking better and taking all of the good storylines for himself when MJF gets nothing!" Completely ignoring the fact that MJF had been gone for multiple weeks. I said that MJF needed to showcase himself as a worthy in-ring talent, not just worthy on the mic, and needed to build up some notable wins. And that's exactly what he did. He looks even better coming out of DON and shut up a lot of people who said he couldn't go in the ring at a high level. The day after DON, so many on here were giving the guy props and going back on their original assessment of the guy. Like I said, everything will be shat on by some people, and then you will have others that look at it as how it should be looked at.
> 
> Archer is not done as a main eventer. If they want to make him a main eventer then that's what he will be. Stop writing talent off when you have no idea what storylines they have in store for anyone in the future. Archer can easily be a main eventer this year or next. Your perception of him currently or anyone else's perception of him doesn't equal future perception. Bray Wyatt was "done" as a main eventer on multiple occasions after being beaten by both The Undertaker and John Cena, now he's back in the main event with new storylines, more over than he has ever been. Drew McIntyre was "done" as a prospective main eventer after being buried by The Shield, now he's main eventing WMania and WWE Champion.
> 
> Cody will eventually be a heel which will be great, especially for his character. I think those planted seeds can start with Darby Allin. Jungle Boy wouldn't be a bad option either.
> 
> 
> 
> This is stupidity and a complete opinion. Stop spinning all of the good news that this company gets into negative narratives that discredit the brand. And you were DEFINITELY watching. You watch every minute of the show every week just like most of us here.


i’m gonna create a new account just to ‘like’ this twice


----------



## bdon

I definitely did not watch the battle royal. I was fucking off on my phone and bitching to my wife about the stupid shit until I realized, “Ok, now that they’ve trimmed the fat, we can actually see some wrestling.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Always good to get a bit of info from a different country

AEW beating almost all WWE programs in Canada - this is the sort of thing the 'LolRatings' won't capture - as it is only US households

PS> WWE obviously by faaaar still the biggest global player - I mean, its not really a competition when you look at the Worldwide..... yet


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I definitely did not watch the battle royal. I was fucking off on my phone and bitching to my wife about the stupid shit until I realized, “Ok, now that they’ve trimmed the fat, we can actually see some wrestling.”


so, like every battle royale in the history of time


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, like every battle royale in the history of time


Sooo, they suck until the end.

Thanks for making my point for me.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Monday night war From 2010

*7 million viewers*

Last night's edition of TNA Impact drew a 1.50 rating and averaged 2.20 million viewers over the course of three hours to be TNA's most-watched Impact episode ever.

Impact peaked with 2.90 million viewers for the 9:00 to 9:15 p.m. EST quarter-hour with Hulk Hogan's debut opposite WWE Raw opening with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

TNA's previous high rating was a 1.33 rating and 1.97 million viewers on the April 2 Impact prior to WWE's WrestleMania weekend.

*___*

Monday's edition of WWE Raw featuring Bret Hart's return averaged 5.60 million viewers, which was the largest viewing audience since the Raw after Summerslam on August 24.

The show drew a very strong rating among males 18-49, drawing a 3.37 rating in the key demo. That was the highest rating since the commercial-free Raw on June 22 averaged a 3.71 rating.

The last time Raw drew a male 18-49 demo rating higher than the commercial-free show was the Raw after WrestleMania 26.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> AEW actually lost nearly 50,000 viewers during the Tyson segment.
> 
> Shida a huge draw this week.


It's the perve syndrome again. People will watch the Japanese girl they've fetishized. She's not drawing because she's actually good (and she's not bad, especially when compared to Riho).

Tyson and Jericho didn't do well in Google searches either. Hopefully they aren't paying that much for Tyson, becuase this isn't looking like a fireball angle. It's possible word spreads and next week benefits, but Austin and Tyson this is obviously not.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Monday night war From 2010
> 
> *7 million viewers*
> 
> Last night's edition of TNA Impact drew a 1.50 rating and averaged 2.20 million viewers over the course of three hours to be TNA's most-watched Impact episode ever.
> 
> Impact peaked with 2.90 million viewers for the 9:00 to 9:15 p.m. EST quarter-hour with Hulk Hogan's debut opposite WWE Raw opening with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.
> 
> TNA's previous high rating was a 1.33 rating and 1.97 million viewers on the April 2 Impact prior to WWE's WrestleMania weekend.
> 
> *___*
> 
> Monday's edition of WWE Raw featuring Bret Hart's return averaged 5.60 million viewers, which was the largest viewing audience since the Raw after Summerslam on August 24.
> 
> The show drew a very strong rating among males 18-49, drawing a 3.37 rating in the key demo. That was the highest rating since the commercial-free Raw on June 22 averaged a 3.71 rating.
> 
> The last time Raw drew a male 18-49 demo rating higher than the commercial-free show was the Raw after WrestleMania 26.


are you humming ‘the way we were’ while typing that?


----------



## Pippen94

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Monday night war From 2010
> 
> *7 million viewers*
> 
> Last night's edition of TNA Impact drew a 1.50 rating and averaged 2.20 million viewers over the course of three hours to be TNA's most-watched Impact episode ever.
> 
> Impact peaked with 2.90 million viewers for the 9:00 to 9:15 p.m. EST quarter-hour with Hulk Hogan's debut opposite WWE Raw opening with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.
> 
> TNA's previous high rating was a 1.33 rating and 1.97 million viewers on the April 2 Impact prior to WWE's WrestleMania weekend.
> 
> *___*
> 
> Monday's edition of WWE Raw featuring Bret Hart's return averaged 5.60 million viewers, which was the largest viewing audience since the Raw after Summerslam on August 24.
> 
> The show drew a very strong rating among males 18-49, drawing a 3.37 rating in the key demo. That was the highest rating since the commercial-free Raw on June 22 averaged a 3.71 rating.
> 
> The last time Raw drew a male 18-49 demo rating higher than the commercial-free show was the Raw after WrestleMania 26.


Ok


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Ok


dude needs to scroll up and see that the most ppv buys TNA ever got was 60k


----------



## Pippen94

Last decade all TV ratings down 40% - 18 to 49 down 60%. What streaming & DVR numbers did TNA do?


----------



## Bosnian21

With some people continuing to bring up TNA television ratings, I’d like to see a list of all TNA PPV buy-rates.

AEW has had 5 PPVs. All 5 have outsold every TNA PPV in its 17 year history. I never see that statistic brought up. As a matter of fact, TNA never got close to AEW numbers.

If early numbers are correct, DoN 2020 will double the biggest TNA PPV ever. Makes AEW look even better since they have less TV viewers but more buying customers.


----------



## Pippen94

Bosnian21 said:


> With some people continuing to bring up TNA television ratings, I’d like to see a list of all TNA PPV buy-rates.
> 
> AEW has had 5 PPVs. All 5 have outsold every TNA PPV in its 17 year history. I never see that statistic brought up. As a matter of fact, TNA never got close to AEW numbers.
> 
> If early numbers are correct, DoN 2020 will double the biggest TNA PPV ever. Makes AEW look even better since they have less TV viewers but more buying customers.


Tna would be less than 500,000 in today's climate - not sure about demo


----------



## Chip Chipperson

It baffles me that people who seem so educated on ratings and how this aspect of the wrestling business works (And that isn't sarcasm I'm being legitimate) don't understand something as simple as domestic ratings/buys Vs international ratings/buys.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude needs to scroll up and see that the most ppv buys TNA ever got was 60k


Domestically. Meaning United States only.

TNA might have got 60,000 buys in the United States and a further 150,000 internationally. I know a whole heap of people bought the TNA PPV's in 2006 when they started airing here in Australia. As a matter of fact TNA wasn't airing here but Main Event (The PPV Provider) received so many calls and E-Mails that they started selling TNA PPV's on 2 week delay despite the TV show itself not airing in this country.

It's the same with ratings, okay 800,000 people tuned in this week but that's not everyone who is watching. There is a solid 150+ countries around the world who also have access to what AEW is doing and very well might be tuning in but everyone is so wrapped up in the domestic rating.

Nobody except Americans should care about the domestic rating. I'd be more interested in seeing total buys for AEW PPV's including iPPV and international purchases. Same with their TV ratings. I have a feeling if we compared WWE's international ratings with AEW or even NXT's Network viewership got added to their rating you'd see AEW being a distant number 4 to each WWE brand.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> It baffles me that people who seem so educated on ratings and how this aspect of the wrestling business works (And that isn't sarcasm I'm being legitimate) don't understand something as simple as domestic ratings/buys Vs international ratings/buys.
> 
> 
> 
> Domestically. Meaning United States only.
> 
> TNA might have got 60,000 buys in the United States and a further 150,000 internationally. I know a whole heap of people bought the TNA PPV's in 2006 when they started airing here in Australia. As a matter of fact TNA wasn't airing here but Main Event (The PPV Provider) received so many calls and E-Mails that they started selling TNA PPV's on 2 week delay despite the TV show itself not airing in this country.
> 
> It's the same with ratings, okay 800,000 people tuned in this week but that's not everyone who is watching. There is a solid 150+ countries around the world who also have access to what AEW is doing and very well might be tuning in but everyone is so wrapped up in the domestic rating.
> 
> Nobody except Americans should care about the domestic rating. I'd be more interested in seeing total buys for AEW PPV's including iPPV and international purchases. Same with their TV ratings. I have a feeling if we compared WWE's international ratings with AEW or even NXT's Network viewership got added to their rating you'd see AEW being a distant number 4 to each WWE brand.


Aew ppv numbers shit all over TNA. Same with live attendance's. TNA only has TV but that's because more ppl watched TV back then.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Aew ppv numbers shit all over TNA. Same with live attendance's. TNA only has TV but that's because more ppl watched TV back then.


*Domestically.*


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Domestically.*


are you able to provide any facts about TNAs international buy rate?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> are you able to provide any facts about TNAs international buy rate?


No, because those numbers are never released publicly here in Australia. I do know TNA was regularly in the top 100 for Foxtel shows (Subscription TV) in the early 2010's and they also aired on One HD (Free to air TV) with their recap show Xplosion.

A quick Google search has found one rating from 2011 and is compared to WWE.


41 WWE Raw Fox8 29,000 (Rock Return) (9:30 PM Tuesday)
73 TNA Impact Fox8 24,000 (9:30 PM Friday)

I'd say One HD is probably just higher (Maybe 30-40 thousand?) due to it being free to air TV. 50-60 thousand total not including the Australians who liked to watch live and streamed it (I was one of those) would be my estimate.

Fun story that I might as well share here. The success of wrestling in Australia in the early 2010's launched a wrestling war here in Australia.

Channel Nine had one of the WWE shows where they'd recap the 2 hour show in 45 minutes. It was successful which lead to One HD (Channel 10) buying the airing rights for Xplosion and airing that. Channel 7 not wanting to miss out on wrestling actually made a deal with New Jersey independent wrestling promotion "NWA On Fire" who realised they had nothing that would appeal to a national audience and made a deal with David Marquez to air the old NWA Wrestling Showcase every week which I loved.

NWA lasted maybe 8 weeks, TNA lasted a year or two, WWE was still on free to air in 2018 but now no wrestling on free to air.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> No


 should’ve ended it here. Anything after this is assumption or skewed to fit an agenda

@Pippen94 was only talking about the facts.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> should’ve ended it here. Anything after this is assumption or skewed to fit an agenda
> 
> @Pippen94 was only talking about the facts.


Not really, if it was an assumption to fit your "AEW is the best" argument you'd be all over it. Main Event doesn't release their PPV numbers in this country but I know people bought TNA PPV's because I myself bought them and we used to have live threads of the PPV on an Australian forum I was a member of.

If you want to assume no PPV's were ever sold because no numbers are released that is your prerogative.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not really, if it was an assumption to fit your "AEW is the best" argument you'd be all over it. Main Event doesn't release their PPV numbers in this country but I know people bought TNA PPV's because I myself bought them and we used to have live threads of the PPV on an Australian forum I was a member of.
> 
> If you want to assume no PPV's were ever sold because no numbers are released that is your prerogative.


Until the numbers have been released, no point of debating it. AEW in 2020 is doing better than TNA in 2005, whether you like it or not. No need to debate this fact.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not really, if it was an assumption to fit your "AEW is the best" argument you'd be all over it. Main Event doesn't release their PPV numbers in this country but I know people bought TNA PPV's because I myself bought them and we used to have live threads of the PPV on an Australian forum I was a member of.
> 
> If you want to assume no PPV's were ever sold because no numbers are released that is your prerogative.


TNA's PPV were nowhere near AEW numbers. Go to bed.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> TNA's PPV were nowhere near AEW numbers. Go to bed.


*Domestically.*

I keep bolding it because people don't seem to get it. TNA was available on a heap of international PPV providers so probably was realistically doing surprising numbers on PPV.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Domestically.*
> 
> I keep bolding it because people don't seem to get it. TNA was available on a heap of international PPV providers so probably was realistically doing surprising numbers on PPV.


TNA was living off Hogan, Flair, Sting and Booker and ex WWF Attitude Era guys.

Go to bed. Ya off wit this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> TNA was living off Hogan, Flair, Sting and Booker and ex WWF Attitude Era guys.
> 
> Go to bed. Ya off wit this.


As opposed to AEW who isn't living off any ex WWE guys, right?










Oh...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Domestically.*
> 
> I keep bolding it because people don't seem to get it. TNA was available on a heap of international PPV providers so probably was realistically doing surprising numbers on PPV.


This is an assumption that TNA were doing better 1 year into the company [being on cable TV] when compared to AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It baffles me that people who seem so educated on ratings and how this aspect of the wrestling business works (And that isn't sarcasm I'm being legitimate) don't understand something as simple as domestic ratings/buys Vs international ratings/buys.
> 
> 
> 
> Domestically. Meaning United States only.
> 
> TNA might have got 60,000 buys in the United States and a further 150,000 internationally. I know a whole heap of people bought the TNA PPV's in 2006 when they started airing here in Australia. As a matter of fact TNA wasn't airing here but Main Event (The PPV Provider) received so many calls and E-Mails that they started selling TNA PPV's on 2 week delay despite the TV show itself not airing in this country.
> 
> It's the same with ratings, okay 800,000 people tuned in this week but that's not everyone who is watching. There is a solid 150+ countries around the world who also have access to what AEW is doing and very well might be tuning in but everyone is so wrapped up in the domestic rating.
> 
> Nobody except Americans should care about the domestic rating. I'd be more interested in seeing total buys for AEW PPV's including iPPV and international purchases. Same with their TV ratings. I have a feeling if we compared WWE's international ratings with AEW or even NXT's Network viewership got added to their rating you'd see AEW being a distant number 4 to each WWE brand.


The PPV numbers we get for DON is also domestic - FITE does not release their numbers

they only do blanket statements like ‘this has sold really well’

so still 100k+ > 60k which is TNAs highest domestic PPV buy figure

I for instance bought on Fite in the UK - not counted in the 100k

I would also guess a LOT of Americans VPN’d Fite to also buy it there for cheaper - but that would be..... speculation, just as your post is - so doesn’t really merit being presented as facts


----------



## DaSlacker

I have no idea how AEW and TNA compare in PPV buys. AEW are a fresh start up only a year old and have a rabid fanbase who WWE and TNA drove away. A few differences though:


TNA was a slow burner by comparison and didn't move to a TV/monthly PPV model until 2 years into their run.
They didn't have a comparable TV situation until 2007.
Until the very end of the 2000's they were fully reliant on old PPV provider model as streaming quality was still catching up. Plus the PPVs were shown for free in UK, most of Europe, most of Asia and Africa.
Impact Zone was a constant anchor.
PPVs were montly and therefore less must see.
Competition was stronger and with more star power than now. Their PPVs were equal price as opposed to 9.99. You can view that in several ways.
Critics hated TNA due to Russo and even moreso once Hogan arrived.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> This is an assumption that TNA were doing better 1 year into the company [being on cable TV] when compared to AEW.


This is what I was going to say. Why are we even talking about international numbers. Domestic is all that matters if you want to have a discussion on ratings. WWE, TNA, and AEW are all U.S based companies primarily and viewership matters most here. International numbers will never be accurate. Domestic numbers are already not accurate when you consider DVR, streams, etc.

AEW pulled a great number this week and they are doing a lot better than TNA in its first year, maybe ever. They just pulled 100K+ buyers during pandemic era wrestling with no major crowds. There’s no point trying to spin that to discredit how well these guys are doing by bringing international numbers into the conversation, a metric that hasn’t been primarily discussed amongst fans ever, and for good reason. There’s no issue with just giving these guys the props they deserve and moving on.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> This is what I was going to say. Why are we even talking about international numbers. Domestic is all that matters if you want to have a discussion on ratings. WWE, TNA, and AEW are all U.S based companies primarily and viewership matters most here. International numbers will never be accurate. Domestic numbers are already not accurate when you consider DVR, streams, etc.
> 
> AEW pulled a great number last week and they are doing a lot better than TNA in its first year, maybe ever. There’s no point trying to spin that to discredit how well these guys are doing by bringing international numbers into the conversation, a metric that hasn’t been primarily discussed in 20 years, and for good reason. There’s no issue with just giving these guys the props they deserve and moving on.


It’s all about fitting the agenda. They don’t realise how biased they are; but because Cornette at one point was in TNA, they will defend it for anything.

seriously. Imagine defending TNA of all fucking things.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> This is what I was going to say. Why are we even talking about international numbers. Domestic is all that matters if you want to have a discussion on ratings. WWE, TNA, and AEW are all U.S based companies primarily and viewership matters most here. International numbers will never be accurate. Domestic numbers are already not accurate when you consider DVR, streams, etc.
> 
> AEW pulled a great number last week and they are doing a lot better than TNA in its first year, maybe ever. There’s no point trying to spin that to discredit how well these guys are doing by bringing international numbers into the conversation, a metric that hasn’t been primarily discussed in 20 years, and for good reason.


Haha, well that will do me. "Why are we even talking about international numbers? Domestic is all that matters"

It's so short sighted of a view that I am legitimately baffled and I'm not often baffled on this forum. Why would anyone care about the business done internationally? Erm...money? Your TV show airing on international TV means money, Higher ratings internationally mean more touring opportunities (Often at someone else's expense. That's right, you get paid to come and perform), it means more merchandising opportunities, more YouTube revenue, more PPV buys either from Fite TV or a domestic PPV provider, more hits on your website, more social media engagement and ultimately more everything.

That is why the WWE and major sports invest BILLIONS in promoting a wide range of guys to their international viewers. India has Jinder Mahal, Australia has the Iiconics, Europe has a whole heap of guys, Asia has a whole heap of guys, they hired a bunch of Chinese wrestlers to try and branch out into China. Being so ignorant to openly suggest that international numbers don't matter is astounding. I would say a decent chunk of money that the WWE makes comes from countries outside of America.

My argument simply was that TNA did more than 60k PPV buys. 60k PPV buys was their domestic PPV buyrate they could've done 140k more around the world for all we know. AEW is also doing more numbers than reported because of their international numbers so it's definitely not an attempt to "discredit" them and "how well these guys are doing".

No disrespect but the argument of "Domestic is all that matters" is without question the silliest thing I have ever read on this forum by far even if you simply meant it from a PPV and TV perspective. Oofa.




optikk sucks said:


> It’s all about fitting the agenda. They don’t realise how biased they are; but because Cornette at one point was in TNA, they will defend it for anything.
> 
> seriously. Imagine defending TNA of all fucking things.


You're entitled to your opinion on TNA although it seems to be the general consensus of the internet wrestling community and not from someone who actually watched it. TNA was a great product for many years, had one of the best rosters i the world at one point and was a great part of my childhood wrestling fandom. Cornette has zero to do with me liking TNA.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Haha, well that will do me. "Why are we even talking about international numbers? Domestic is all that matters"
> 
> It's so short sighted of a view that I am legitimately baffled and I'm not often baffled on this forum. Why would anyone care about the business done internationally? Erm...money? Your TV show airing on international TV means money, Higher ratings internationally mean more touring opportunities (Often at someone else's expense. That's right, you get paid to come and perform), it means more merchandising opportunities, more YouTube revenue, more PPV buys either from Fite TV or a domestic PPV provider, more hits on your website, more social media engagement and ultimately more everything.
> 
> That is why the WWE and major sports invest BILLIONS in promoting a wide range of guys to their international viewers. India has Jinder Mahal, Australia has the Iiconics, Europe has a whole heap of guys, Asia has a whole heap of guys, they hired a bunch of Chinese wrestlers to try and branch out into China. Being so ignorant to openly suggest that international numbers don't matter is astounding. I would say a decent chunk of money that the WWE makes comes from countries outside of America.
> 
> My argument simply was that TNA did more than 60k PPV buys. 60k PPV buys was their domestic PPV buyrate they could've done 140k more around the world for all we know. AEW is also doing more numbers than reported because of their international numbers so it's definitely not an attempt to "discredit" them and "how well these guys are doing".
> 
> No disrespect but the argument of "Domestic is all that matters" is without question the silliest thing I have ever read on this forum by far even if you simply meant it from a PPV and TV perspective. Oofa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're entitled to your opinion on TNA although it seems to be the general consensus of the internet wrestling community and not from someone who actually watched it. TNA was a great product for many years, had one of the best rosters i the world at one point and was a great part of my childhood wrestling fandom. Cornette has zero to do with me liking TNA.


Yes I watched TNA. It was a good product. Up until 2010 when it became WCW v2.
However, how good it was still makes no difference, as you’re still trying to debate about something based on subjectivity and not objectivity. You’re also comparing a promotion at its peak to a promotion that hasn’t even been on weekly episodes for a year. Different places, barely any statistics publicly available. No reason to discuss them.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Haha, well that will do me. "Why are we even talking about international numbers? Domestic is all that matters"
> 
> It's so short sighted of a view that I am legitimately baffled and I'm not often baffled on this forum. Why would anyone care about the business done internationally? Erm...money? Your TV show airing on international TV means money, Higher ratings internationally mean more touring opportunities (Often at someone else's expense. That's right, you get paid to come and perform), it means more merchandising opportunities, more YouTube revenue, more PPV buys either from Fite TV or a domestic PPV provider, more hits on your website, more social media engagement and ultimately more everything.
> 
> That is why the WWE and major sports invest BILLIONS in promoting a wide range of guys to their international viewers. India has Jinder Mahal, Australia has the Iiconics, Europe has a whole heap of guys, Asia has a whole heap of guys, they hired a bunch of Chinese wrestlers to try and branch out into China. Being so ignorant to openly suggest that international numbers don't matter is astounding. I would say a decent chunk of money that the WWE makes comes from countries outside of America.
> 
> My argument simply was that TNA did more than 60k PPV buys. 60k PPV buys was their domestic PPV buyrate they could've done 140k more around the world for all we know. AEW is also doing more numbers than reported because of their international numbers so it's definitely not an attempt to "discredit" them and "how well these guys are doing".
> 
> No disrespect but the argument of "Domestic is all that matters" is without question the silliest thing I have ever read on this forum by far even if you simply meant it from a PPV and TV perspective. Oofa.


You're missing my point entirely. In the grand scheme of things, of course international numbers would matter in a business sense. International numbers = more money. But that's none of your concern good or bad. No one is here to discuss that at such a deep level. Only in a general sense. As a fan, if we are to discuss ratings on a weekly basis, (which we really shouldn't), it would need to be domestic ratings, because domestic ratings are all that should matter to a fan that DOES NOT get paid to worry about such metrics. So to use international ratings as a way to push your argument against AEW, and this is definitely you pushing an argument against them, is asinine, and most won't give a shit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> You're missing my point entirely. In the grand scheme of things, of course international numbers would matter in a business sense. International numbers = more money. But that's none of your concern good or bad. No one is here to discuss that at such a deep level. Only in a general sense. As a fan, if we are to discuss ratings on a weekly basis, (which we really shouldn't), it would need to be domestic ratings, because domestic ratings are all that should matter to a fan that DOES NOT get paid to worry about such metrics. So to use international ratings as a way to push your argument against AEW, and this is definitely you pushing an argument against them, is asinine, and most won't give a shit.


I am simply bringing international numbers up because people say "60k" and think that's all that bought a TNA PPV or they'll say just over 1 million are the only people who were watching TNA. They are not taking into account the 100+ other countries that TNA aired in.

Also, might I add that most of us get our PPV buyrate numbers from Dave Meltzer who was known to hate TNA and is really in bed with AEW. Who says these numbers are even accurate? Meltzer could be pumping them up and we could be discussing his pumped up numbers.


----------



## ElTerrible

optikk sucks said:


> It’s all about fitting the agenda. They don’t realise how biased they are; but because Cornette at one point was in TNA, they will defend it for anything.
> 
> seriously. Imagine defending TNA of all fucking things.


Once upon a time TNA was just like AEW is now. They had the best young talent in the world, that perfected their craft and characters on the indy scene over many years (Styles, Joe, Daniels, MCMG, Jay Lethal, Beer Money, Abyss, Kim, Kong). They had the prime WWE superstar leave voluntarily for a major payday in Christian (Ambrose). They had the veterans that could still go in Angle/Sting (Jericho). Then they pissed it all way going overboard with the old-timers like Flair, Steiner, Hogan, Nash, Bischoff, Booker, Foley and so on.... 

Cornette is just a sad joke. He played the same role in 1999 calling WWE, ECW and WCW garbage, while glorifying some dude from the 1970 rubbing his armpits with his own feces before putting young adults into headlocks.


----------



## Prosper

s


Chip Chipperson said:


> I am simply bringing international numbers up because people say "60k" and think that's all that bought a TNA PPV or they'll say just over 1 million are the only people who were watching TNA. They are not taking into account the 100+ other countries that TNA aired in.
> 
> Also, might I add that most of us get our PPV buyrate numbers from Dave Meltzer who was known to hate TNA and is really in bed with AEW. Who says these numbers are even accurate? Meltzer could be pumping them up and we could be discussing his pumped up numbers.


I doubt that. If he is pumping up numbers for AEW, then he's pumping up numbers for WWE, who you can say he is also in bed with. It wouldn't be smart on his part seeing as the wrestling community look at him as the top guy as far as wrestling "insider" news. These buy rates are also eventually reported by multiple outlets, not just Meltzer. It also wouldn't make sense because he gains nothing from pumping up numbers. The fans who care can only sit around and talk about the numbers that a company does, but their opinion on those numbers won't make a difference on the numbers they're bringing in, because 95% of fans don't know the buy rates or even think to look them up in the first place. Meaning that if a PPV did less than 20k buys for instance, most fans wouldn't know and they would still buy the next PPV if they are enjoying the product, without that 20k number deterring their decision. They will buy a PPV based off of their enjoyment of the live show and that's as far as they will go. It's just the hardcores that care about buy rates like ourselves.


----------



## Not Lying

I don't think it's fair to make all these time-line and apple to oranges comparisons. Its true ratings aren't comparable, but it's also true PPV numbers now may not be the best indicator with the international deals (that are cheaper).

What you should concern yourself with is growth and cash flow now. They're not really available, so all this discussion is useless. 
I do think AEW has more hype around it than TNA though for 2005-2006, not sure for 2008-2009.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## bdon

IamMark said:


>


Well, 10% variance means AEW was actually the highest rated wrestling show of the entire week!

ONE MORE....FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!!

@The Wood lol


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

how can i contribute to the aew ratings if im not a Nielsen household? does your cable providers app count or do i need to watch on the tnt app?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PushCrymeTyme said:


> how can i contribute to the aew ratings if im not a Nielsen household? does your cable providers app count or do i need to watch on the tnt app?


who knows mate - the Nielsen system is a joke


----------



## The Wood

Bosnian21 said:


> With some people continuing to bring up TNA television ratings, I’d like to see a list of all TNA PPV buy-rates.
> 
> AEW has had 5 PPVs. All 5 have outsold every TNA PPV in its 17 year history. I never see that statistic brought up. As a matter of fact, TNA never got close to AEW numbers.
> 
> If early numbers are correct, DoN 2020 will double the biggest TNA PPV ever. Makes AEW look even better since they have less TV viewers but more buying customers.


People bring this up all the time, haha. It's an easy argument to dismiss because of several reasons. It doesn't even matter if you like(d) TNA or not -- people are too often conflating AEW's international buys through digital media with terrestrial buys prior to streaming apps, etc. People do this with ECW's buys towards its end too, and use 99k domestic buys as a marker to suggest that 125k international buys somehow makes AEW a much hotter product. If you're going to take ECW or TNA's domestic buys, you should compare it to AEW's domestic buys. We still don't have a proper domestic number. It is very likely that AEW has done better on PPV than TNA. It's unlikely that it's ever done better than ECW. Again, this has got nothing to do with whether you like ECW or not. I'm not the promotion's biggest fan, but it's frustrating when Meltzer pushes the narrative that AEW has done better on PPV than any promotion since WCW, because it contrasts 99k PPV buys in the United States with 125k buys WORLDWIDE where literally almost everyone has a device in their pocket which can play it. 



optikk sucks said:


> should’ve ended it here. Anything after this is assumption or skewed to fit an agenda
> 
> @Pippen94 was only talking about the facts.


That's not true at all. And again, facts can perform for you. 



optikk sucks said:


> Until the numbers have been released, no point of debating it. AEW in 2020 is doing better than TNA in 2005, whether you like it or not. No need to debate this fact.


You can't compare the two years. I mean, TNA had way better TV deals at that point. They were actually on over here, haha. It was a different time too. But I don't think there can be much argument that TNA was watched by way more people -- both in the US and internationally. AEW has the much better set-up when it comes to their accessibility on cable. I'm sure they do convert more of their audience to PPV too. And they obviously do better gates. They also had a lot more starting capital. 

It's a really bizarre comparison people feel the need to make. 



optikk sucks said:


> It’s all about fitting the agenda. They don’t realise how biased they are; but because Cornette at one point was in TNA, they will defend it for anything.
> 
> seriously. Imagine defending TNA of all fucking things.


You've just made that up. I'm probably the biggest Cornette fan on here, but I have never been a serious fan of TNA. It's got nothing to do with whether or not you like TNA. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that they had much better international deals and were watched by way more people than AEW though. That's a fact, as you like to say. I don't need that fact to say "TNA good" for me. TNA more popular, sure. Wrestling was more popular even just ten years ago. The shit a lot of people wish AEW wouldn't do helped scared a lot of them away. 



optikk sucks said:


> Yes I watched TNA. It was a good product. Up until 2010 when it became WCW v2.
> However, how good it was still makes no difference, as you’re still trying to debate about something based on subjectivity and not objectivity. You’re also comparing a promotion at its peak to a promotion that hasn’t even been on weekly episodes for a year. Different places, barely any statistics publicly available. No reason to discuss them.


How is it objective to say, for example, that AEW isn't at its peak? That's a completely subjective and speculative opinion. I'd very strongly suggest that AEW has already seen its peak. Until we get confirmation on the actual Double or Nothing numbers, their biggest PPV was their first, just like their most watched television show was their first. Their best gates were their first gates. There is no reason to think they will make any more fans than they already have. They have already lost about 600,000 viewers and there is no reason to think that those people will _ever_ come back. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> You're missing my point entirely. In the grand scheme of things, of course international numbers would matter in a business sense. International numbers = more money. But that's none of your concern good or bad. No one is here to discuss that at such a deep level. Only in a general sense. As a fan, if we are to discuss ratings on a weekly basis, (which we really shouldn't), it would need to be domestic ratings, because domestic ratings are all that should matter to a fan that DOES NOT get paid to worry about such metrics. So to use international ratings as a way to push your argument against AEW, and this is definitely you pushing an argument against them, is asinine, and most won't give a shit.


Okay, this is a very US-centric opinion. The whole world doesn't revolve around you guys. And it sounds very much like you're trying to police what other people are interested in talking about. If you don't want to discuss Canadian ratings, UK ratings, Australian ratings, or whatever, then you don't have to. But to say that other people shouldn't? Nah, that's not fair. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> I doubt that. If he is pumping up numbers for AEW, then he's pumping up numbers for WWE, who you can say he is also in bed with. It wouldn't be smart on his part seeing as the wrestling community look at him as the top guy as far as wrestling "insider" news. These buy rates are also eventually reported by multiple outlets, not just Meltzer. It also wouldn't make sense because he gains nothing from pumping up numbers. The fans who care can only sit around and talk about the numbers that a company does, but their opinion on those numbers won't make a difference on the numbers they're bringing in, because 95% of fans don't know the buy rates or even think to look them up in the first place. Meaning that if a PPV did less than 20k buys for instance, most fans wouldn't know and they would still buy the next PPV if they are enjoying the product, without that 20k number deterring their decision. They will buy a PPV based off of their enjoyment of the live show and that's as far as they will go. It's just the hardcores that care about buy rates like ourselves.


Come on, the bias of Dave Meltzer has to be a well-known story by now, surely? Meltzer is very biased for AEW and against WWE. It's the trendy thing to do. It's been demonstrated how he conflates data and misrepresents it to present AEW in a shinier light than they are, and that the same strategies are not implemented for WWE. They are the evil empire and AEW are the valiant underdogs. Whether Meltzer truly believes this or not is unsure -- he could just think it is useful to selling subscriptions to the internet crowd that is very happy to accept that narrative. 



PushCrymeTyme said:


> how can i contribute to the aew ratings if im not a Nielsen household? does your cable providers app count or do i need to watch on the tnt app?


I don't think you can. This is why people are often critical of Nielsen as a useful metric today.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> People bring this up all the time, haha. It's an easy argument to dismiss because of several reasons. It doesn't even matter if you like(d) TNA or not -- people are too often conflating AEW's international buys through digital media with terrestrial buys prior to streaming apps, etc. People do this with ECW's buys towards its end too, and use 99k domestic buys as a marker to suggest that 125k international buys somehow makes AEW a much hotter product. If you're going to take ECW or TNA's domestic buys, you should compare it to AEW's domestic buys. We still don't have a proper domestic number. It is very likely that AEW has done better on PPV than TNA. It's unlikely that it's ever done better than ECW. Again, this has got nothing to do with whether you like ECW or not. I'm not the promotion's biggest fan, but it's frustrating when Meltzer pushes the narrative that AEW has done better on PPV than any promotion since WCW, because it contrasts 99k PPV buys in the United States with 125k buys WORLDWIDE where literally almost everyone has a device in their pocket which can play it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true at all. And again, facts can perform for you.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't compare the two years. I mean, TNA had way better TV deals at that point. They were actually on over here, haha. It was a different time too. But I don't think there can be much argument that TNA was watched by way more people -- both in the US and internationally. AEW has the much better set-up when it comes to their accessibility on cable. I'm sure they do convert more of their audience to PPV too. And they obviously do better gates. They also had a lot more starting capital.
> 
> It's a really bizarre comparison people feel the need to make.
> 
> 
> 
> You've just made that up. I'm probably the biggest Cornette fan on here, but I have never been a serious fan of TNA. It's got nothing to do with whether or not you like TNA. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that they had much better international deals and were watched by way more people than AEW though. That's a fact, as you like to say. I don't need that fact to say "TNA good" for me. TNA more popular, sure. Wrestling was more popular even just ten years ago. The shit a lot of people wish AEW wouldn't do helped scared a lot of them away.
> 
> 
> 
> How is it objective to say, for example, that AEW isn't at its peak? That's a completely subjective and speculative opinion. I'd very strongly suggest that AEW has already seen its peak. Until we get confirmation on the actual Double or Nothing numbers, their biggest PPV was their first, just like their most watched television show was their first. Their best gates were their first gates. There is no reason to think they will make any more fans than they already have. They have already lost about 600,000 viewers and there is no reason to think that those people will _ever_ come back.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, this is a very US-centric opinion. The whole world doesn't revolve around you guys. And it sounds very much like you're trying to police what other people are interested in talking about. If you don't want to discuss Canadian ratings, UK ratings, Australian ratings, or whatever, then you don't have to. But to say that other people shouldn't? Nah, that's not fair.
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, the bias of Dave Meltzer has to be a well-known story by now, surely? Meltzer is very biased for AEW and against WWE. It's the trendy thing to do. It's been demonstrated how he conflates data and misrepresents it to present AEW in a shinier light than they are, and that the same strategies are not implemented for WWE. They are the evil empire and AEW are the valiant underdogs. Whether Meltzer truly believes this or not is unsure -- he could just think it is useful to selling subscriptions to the internet crowd that is very happy to accept that narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can. This is why people are often critical of Nielsen as a useful metric today.


So in course of TNA existence they recorded two ppv's with approximately 60,000. That means their best was much lower than aew.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> So in course of TNA existence they recorded two ppv's with approximately 60,000. That means their best was much lower than aew.


Holy shit, it's happening again right after people just tried to introduce some sense, haha. 

You can't compare a domestic and terrestrial PPV number with an international one in the age of digital media. PPV is way more accessible and you're comparing a global audience with an American one. 60k people is not a great PPV number by any stretch of the imagination, and TNA was not known for delivering on PPV. That being said, a PPV that gets 60k US buys in 2020 is probably going to get 90k worldwide. A PPV that got about 99k in the US is probably going to get about 132k buys worldwide. AEW very likely did better on PPV than TNA did. Anyone applying common sense can understand that they are almost entirely different mediums though. Not only that, but beating TNA on PPV is not exactly something to gloat about, haha.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, it's happening again right after people just tried to introduce some sense, haha.
> 
> You can't compare a domestic and terrestrial PPV number with an international one in the age of digital media. PPV is way more accessible and you're comparing a global audience with an American one. 60k people is not a great PPV number by any stretch of the imagination, and TNA was not known for delivering on PPV. That being said, a PPV that gets 60k US buys in 2020 is probably going to get 90k worldwide. A PPV that got about 99k in the US is probably going to get about 132k buys worldwide. AEW very likely did better on PPV than TNA did. Anyone applying common sense can understand that they are almost entirely different mediums though. Not only that, but beating TNA on PPV is not exactly something to gloat about, haha.


TNA never got close to 99k buys so your logic is flawed. Ppv rates have declined over years so any summation TNA would do more now is also incorrect


----------



## kazarn

WON:



> *The peak number of AEW's Battle Royal on Wednesday topped 1 million total viewers and 500,000 in 18-49 from the point of Orange Cassidy coming in and the finish.* Tony Khan came up with the storyline for the match of Cassidy getting destroyed early, disappearing and coming back at the end. Cody and Khan came up with the detail work on the match and the producers were Christopher Daniels, Colt Cabana and Billy Gunn. The Battle Royal actually beat the Mike Tyson segment.


----------



## bdon

Well, there you go, @AEWMoxley. Put the belt on Orange Cassidy. Biggest ratings draw. Right?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> TNA never got close to 99k buys so your logic is flawed. Ppv rates have declined over years so any summation TNA would do more now is also incorrect


And around we go again.

TNA could have done 99k buys if you count the international buys.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Well, there you go, @AEWMoxley. Put the belt on Orange Cassidy. Biggest ratings draw. Right?


Marko Stunt was a big part of that match. Next TNT Champ?


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Marko Stunt was a big part of that match. Next TNT Champ?


I’m not the one advocating that biggest ratings mover is the key to being champ either. Lol


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> TNA never got close to 99k buys so your logic is flawed. Ppv rates have declined over years so any summation TNA would do more now is also incorrect


It's not flawed. I took the US domestic buyrate and increased it by 33%, which is about the international rate for these sorts of things. How can you not understand that there is a difference between the domestic buyrate and an international one. Dave Meltzer always reported TNA's _domestic_ number. He conflates AEW's domestic number with their international audiences and reports it as one number to get them over that 100k buys line and people compare them to ECW and TNA and they look so much bigger than they are. And that is why it is important to point this out to people, because gullible people, stupid people, dishonest people or just people who don't really have time to analyze these things, start believing the myth. 

I was just reading a Forbes article that suggests UFC 249 did over 700k buys on PPV. Is that down? While wrestling is certainly less popular than it was even then, the idea that TNA and AEW aren't comparable *is exactly the point.* Wrestling was more watched, but you also only had terrestrial PPV, which meant that you needed access to a PPV enabled TV at the time of the event, should you want to watch it live. It was a completely different time.

By the way, TNA's PPV numbers were absolutely horrid. It was well-known that Russo was ineffective at turning people towards PPV. If they were getting 1.8 million viewers on Spike and TNA were able to convert just 5% of that to a PPV audience, they would have been getting 90k PPV buys a month. If they were friends with Dave Meltzer and Dixie Carter admitted to reading the Observer then it would have been reported as 120k buys, because Dave would have slipped in the international ones. He probably would have gone out of his way to point out that it was 360k buys a quarter. But TNA doing <60k was noteworthy in how pitiful it was. 

If the domestic number of buys ends up being 80k, that's still a phenomenal conversion rate, because it's closer to 10% than the usual approximate of 5%. They should probably not get used to this number. Whether it's the virus or the hardcore fans trying to be really supportive, it is not likely that AEW will be able to count of that sort of support from its fan-base forever. It's just not sustainable. The viewership for Dynamite would put AEW's PPV projections at about 32k most shows, and that would actually put them not only well under TNA, but it would mean their GLOBAL audience would probably be smaller than TNA's DOMESTIC one. 

This industry is in the shits, haha.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> And around we go again.
> 
> TNA could have done 99k buys if you count the international buys.


You are stating that as fact - when in reality that number is just something someone here has pulled out of their backside just now. Irony is this mythical number is still well below current aew buys - talk about wasting everybody's time


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It's not flawed. I took the US domestic buyrate and increased it by 33%, which is about the international rate for these sorts of things. How can you not understand that there is a difference between the domestic buyrate and an international one. Dave Meltzer always reported TNA's _domestic_ number. He conflates AEW's domestic number with their international audiences and reports it as one number to get them over that 100k buys line and people compare them to ECW and TNA and they look so much bigger than they are. And that is why it is important to point this out to people, because gullible people, stupid people, dishonest people or just people who don't really have time to analyze these things, start believing the myth.
> 
> I was just reading a Forbes article that suggests UFC 249 did over 700k buys on PPV. Is that down? While wrestling is certainly less popular than it was even then, the idea that TNA and AEW aren't comparable *is exactly the point.* Wrestling was more watched, but you also only had terrestrial PPV, which meant that you needed access to a PPV enabled TV at the time of the event, should you want to watch it live. It was a completely different time.
> 
> By the way, TNA's PPV numbers were absolutely horrid. It was well-known that Russo was ineffective at turning people towards PPV. If they were getting 1.8 million viewers on Spike and TNA were able to convert just 5% of that to a PPV audience, they would have been getting 90k PPV buys a month. If they were friends with Dave Meltzer and Dixie Carter admitted to reading the Observer then it would have been reported as 120k buys, because Dave would have slipped in the international ones. He probably would have gone out of his way to point out that it was 360k buys a quarter. But TNA doing <60k was noteworthy in how pitiful it was.
> 
> If the domestic number of buys ends up being 80k, that's still a phenomenal conversion rate, because it's closer to 10% than the usual approximate of 5%. They should probably not get used to this number. Whether it's the virus or the hardcore fans trying to be really supportive, it is not likely that AEW will be able to count of that sort of support from its fan-base forever. It's just not sustainable. The viewership for Dynamite would put AEW's PPV projections at about 32k most shows, and that would actually put them not only well under TNA, but it would mean their GLOBAL audience would probably be smaller than TNA's DOMESTIC one.
> 
> This industry is in the shits, haha.


But TNA TV audience inflated cause it was 15 years ago & whatever number they did never translated to ppvs or live crowds. Want to agrue that tna record house of 6,000 would be bigger than aew crowds? You probably will - sad


----------



## The Wood

Sometimes getting the most eyeballs on you isn't the greatest thing in the world. Would you rather slip in your ass in private or at your wedding? People are no doubt going to have a very simple perception of "Hey! Take that haters! He's a draw! HAHA!" when in reality what you're seeing a lot of people laughing at wrestling, maybe showing their mates and the shit that is supposed to draw doesn't do as well because no one takes it seriously. It's similar to the perve factor with Riho. It's not always a good thing that she's getting more eyeballs than the men, because you know what the men are using it for? Then they don't stick around. Same with Cassidy, but instead of them jacking off, they're watching a jack-off.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Well, there you go, @AEWMoxley. Put the belt on Orange Cassidy. Biggest ratings draw. Right?


Because the battle royal gained the most viewers at its conclusion, which is exactly what you'd expect?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You are stating that as fact - when in reality that number is just something someone here has pulled out of their backside just now. Irony is this mythical number is still well below current aew buys - talk about wasting everybody's time


Yes I'm certainly stating it as a fact when I say "Could have"


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You are stating that as fact - when in reality that number is just something someone here has pulled out of their backside just now. Irony is this mythical number is still well below current aew buys - talk about wasting everybody's time


It is pretty widely accepted that wrestling draws about a third of its PPV buys from an international audience. That's basically what AEW does. If TNA were getting 60k buys in the US, it goes to follow that they would get 90k internationally. I'm not asserting that I think TNA did better internationally than AEW did. It's just worth pointing out when people conflate a global audience with a domestic one. 

TNA's 60,000 PPV buys for Angle vs. Joe or whatever was the domestic PPV rate. When you compare it to AEW's global buy rates, it is dishonest. 



Pippen94 said:


> But TNA TV audience inflated cause it was 15 years ago & whatever number they did never translated to ppvs or live crowds. Want to agrue that tna record house of 6,000 would be bigger than aew crowds? You probably will - sad


I'm not saying they did convert their audience to PPV effectively. I've been very clear that I think they did a HORRIBLE job at that. An audience of 1.8 million (I seem to recall that being the Impact rating most weeks, but I might be wrong) would suggest a PPV of 90k DOMESTIC. For them to get 60k? I mean, that would suggest that they only converted 3% _at their best_. That's Vince Russo for you. 

No, I'm not going to that TNA's attendance was ever higher than AEW's record house. Well, there are probably less people on average in an AEW crowd than 6k. TNA was awful for opening its doors for tourists for free. I always thought they should have at least charged. Different times so the WrestleMania audience hadn't really cultivated itself in the same way. If you were starting up a wrestling promotion like that today, you would probably try and make the most of that audience -- especially if you had your Kurt Angles, Stings, etc.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It is pretty widely accepted that wrestling draws about a third of its PPV buys from an international audience. That's basically what AEW does. If TNA were getting 60k buys in the US, it goes to follow that they would get 90k internationally. I'm not asserting that I think TNA did better internationally than AEW did. It's just worth pointing out when people conflate a global audience with a domestic one.
> 
> TNA's 60,000 PPV buys for Angle vs. Joe or whatever was the domestic PPV rate. When you compare it to AEW's global buy rates, it is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying they did convert their audience to PPV effectively. I've been very clear that I think they did a HORRIBLE job at that. An audience of 1.8 million (I seem to recall that being the Impact rating most weeks, but I might be wrong) would suggest a PPV of 90k DOMESTIC. For them to get 60k? I mean, that would suggest that they only converted 3% _at their best_. That's Vince Russo for you.
> 
> No, I'm not going to that TNA's attendance was ever higher than AEW's record house. Well, there are probably less people on average in an AEW crowd than 6k. TNA was awful for opening its doors for tourists for free. I always thought they should have at least charged. Different times so the WrestleMania audience hadn't really cultivated itself in the same way. If you were starting up a wrestling promotion like that today, you would probably try and make the most of that audience -- especially if you had your Kurt Angles, Stings, etc.


Great all of aew ppvs have beaten TNA's peak result. Using your approach average audience for all TNA ppvs would be lower than 30k with international included.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Great all of aew ppvs have beaten TNA's peak result. Using your approach average audience for all TNA ppvs would be lower than 30k with international included.


Why are you so desperate for AEW to beat the worst wrestling promotion in the history of the 21st century? No one is making the point that TNA was some sort of barnbuster when it came to PPVs, haha. The point is that people ignore the international audience when it comes to TNA, but don't with AEW. And that PPV has changed a lot in the past decade. I can literally watch a PPV while I watch a shit now. It's a different world. And no, I explained my approach. TNA should have been getting 90k US buys on PPV and probably should have gotten 30k international buys, between Australia, the UK, etc.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Why are you so desperate for AEW to beat the worst wrestling promotion in the history of the 21st century? No one is making the point that TNA was some sort of barnbuster when it came to PPVs, haha. The point is that people ignore the international audience when it comes to TNA, but don't with AEW. And that PPV has changed a lot in the past decade. I can literally watch a PPV while I watch a shit now. It's a different world. And no, I explained my approach. TNA should have been getting 90k US buys on PPV and probably should have gotten 30k international buys, between Australia, the UK, etc.


You don't know % of international buys. You don't know if 120k is entirely domestic or not. You have no hard facts to back any of your numbers. Your posts are worth less


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You don't know % of international buys. You don't know if 120k is entirely domestic or not. You have no hard facts to back any of your numbers. Your posts are worth less


The article quotes Meltzer as saying FITE, B/R Live and traditional PPV factor into the 120k. Meltzer himself says that about a third of AEW’s buys come internationally.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> The article quotes Meltzer as saying FITE, B/R Live and traditional PPV factor into the 120k. Meltzer himself says that about a third of AEW’s buys come internationally.


Post source - don't tell what somebody else said


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Post source - don't tell what somebody else said


Um, what do you think a source is? Do you actually think it’s where you make up your own information? It’s literally where you source your information from. It’s a quote from Dave Meltzer via Forbes. Where is your source?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Um, what do you think a source is? Do you actually think it’s where you make up your own information? It’s literally where you source your information from. It’s a quote from Dave Meltzer via Forbes. Where is your source?


Well where is it?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Well where is it?


Google Double or Nothing buyrate. It’s not hard to find. I posted the actual quote from Meltzer in here. It’s already in here. You are having a tantrum because it doesn’t say what you’d like it to say.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

“Google it” lmaoooooo










@Pippen94 out here handing out Ls


----------



## The Wood

AEW fanboys get really pissy when something they don’t like comes out. I gave my source. I posted the quote. You’re throwing tantrums.


----------



## validreasoning

It's difficult to compare TNA and AEW ppv numbers

AEW numbers are worldwide while TNA were only domestic. TNA ppvs used to air for free on Challenge tv channel in UK

Domestically Wrestlemania 17 is most bought pro wrestling ppv ever by some distance but if you include world wide then Wrestlemania 21, 23, 24, 27, 28 and 29 beat 17


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think AEW ‘could have’ 1m international buys On FITE


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think AEW ‘could have’ 1m international buys On FITE


That's a bit too much my friend


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> That's a bit too much my friend


Since we’re speculating, might as well go crazy 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

FITE TV COO Michael Weber Says AEW Live Viewership In Europe Is "Quite Staggering"


Since All Elite Wrestling launched their weekly TV show Dynamite on October 2, the young promotion has created a loyal following around the world. One area in particular AEW has tried to grow in is Europe, with Dynamite currently available to watch on ITV in the UK and on AEW Plus in most...




cultaholic.com






"t's been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it's had a steady climb. I would say it's not a rocket ship but it's a steady climb with no fall off. "

that's all we really know about FiteTV and AEW. But people in over 100 countries subscribed to AEW Plus is an absolute WIN. AEW is worldwide. That's a fact.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> FITE TV COO Michael Weber Says AEW Live Viewership In Europe Is "Quite Staggering"
> 
> 
> Since All Elite Wrestling launched their weekly TV show Dynamite on October 2, the young promotion has created a loyal following around the world. One area in particular AEW has tried to grow in is Europe, with Dynamite currently available to watch on ITV in the UK and on AEW Plus in most...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cultaholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "t's been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it's had a steady climb. I would say it's not a rocket ship but it's a steady climb with no fall off. "
> 
> that's all we really know about FiteTV and AEW. But people in over 100 countries subscribed to AEW Plus is an absolute WIN. AEW is worldwide. That's a fact.


Sure but 1 person in Bangladesh might have subscribed to Fite and that's counted as 1 country. I'd like to see real subscription numbers of people who tune in weekly and what country they do so from. It very well could be possible that some hardcore wrestling fan living in Bangladesh has subscribed to Fite TV to get his AEW fix but he's the only one in the entire country.

It could also offer some interesting numbers as well though. It'd be pretty cool if Fite TV had like 20,000 subscriptions in some non wrestling country like Argentina who all tuned in weekly and loved their AEW fix.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Sure but 1 person in Bangladesh might have subscribed to Fite and that's counted as 1 country. I'd like to see real subscription numbers of people who tune in weekly and what country they do so from. It very well could be possible that some hardcore wrestling fan living in Bangladesh has subscribed to Fite TV to get his AEW fix but he's the only one in the entire country.
> 
> It could also offer some interesting numbers as well though. It'd be pretty cool if Fite TV had like 20,000 subscriptions in some non wrestling country like Argentina who all tuned in weekly and loved their AEW fix.


ok chip you're just speculating now

stick to the facts presented to you.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW is just managed far, far better than TNA was. There is absolutely no contest if you try to compare Tony Khan and Dixie Carter. That is a major advantage for AEW, Khan is heavily involved and they were sinking in December before he took a stronger interest in the booking in January.

McMahon's legacy makes him currently untouchable but I would suggest that Khan is the 4th most active owner in a major promotion that I can remember in my lifetime after McMahon, Heyman, & Watts.


----------



## TripleG

Well being better managed than TNA isn't that hard. For one thing, TNA shot itself in the foot from the word go with a terrible brand name. Its hard for potential investors to take a company named TNA seriously.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW is just managed far, far better than TNA was. There is absolutely no contest if you try to compare Tony Khan and Dixie Carter. That is a major advantage for AEW, Khan is heavily involved and they were sinking in December before he took a stronger interest in the booking in January.
> 
> McMahon's legacy makes him currently untouchable but I would suggest that Khan is the 4th most active owner in a major promotion that I can remember in my lifetime after McMahon, Heyman, & Watts.


Its too early to claim that its "better managed" than TNA. Early on people said that Dixie Carter managed TNA better than Eric Biscoff did with WCW and now they say she was horrible. Tony Khan has already made the biggest mistake, which is letting the inmates run the asylum and overpaying ex WWE guys which will come back and haunt this company just like it did to TNA.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> Its too early to claim that its "better managed" than TNA. Early on people said that Dixie Carter managed TNA better than Eric Biscoff did with WCW and now they say she was horrible. Tony Khan has already made the biggest mistake, which is letting the inmates run the asylum and overpaying ex WWE guys which will come back and haunt this company just like it did to TNA.


Dixie might have actually ran TNA better than Bischoff did WCW, both crumbled. I mean look at things now, WWE has morphed into TNA and isn’t hurting too bad. Maybe Dixie really did suck.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

TripleG said:


> Well being better managed than TNA isn't that hard. For one thing, TNA shot itself in the foot from the word go with a terrible brand name. Its hard for potential investors to take a company named TNA seriously.


Yeah that sucks cause TNA is still my favorite company name ever. Out of all the companies that had their names chanted, TNA sounded the most electric!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dixie might have actually ran TNA better than Bischoff did WCW, both crumbled. I mean look at things now, WWE has morphed into TNA and isn’t hurting too bad. Maybe Dixie really did suck.


Dixie was a full on mark. If AEW ever have Hogan, Hall, Nash on TV, i'm going to stop watching .


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dixie might have actually ran TNA better than Bischoff did WCW, both crumbled. I mean look at things now, WWE has morphed into TNA and isn’t hurting too bad. Maybe Dixie really did suck.


AEW are crumbling now with 600-700k viewers and are losing millions now according to Tony Khan. Also Tony Khan is a money mark who doesn't have a clue of how to run a wrestling company. Hes no different than Dixie Carter.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> losing millions now according to Tony Khan.


citation needed


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> citation needed


"We were on a really good run. What was happening in between _Revolution_ and Double or Nothing, this was going to be the best run of business we've ever had, and we've lost millions and millions of dollars in live events. 











Tony Khan On How Much Money AEW Is Losing Due To The Pandemic, Not Releasing Talent


AEW President and CEO Tony Khan was interviewed on the latest episode of AEW Unrestricted and described the process of putting together the AEW shows…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> "We were on a really good run. What was happening in between _Revolution_ and Double or Nothing, this was going to be the best run of business we've ever had, and we've lost millions and millions of dollars in live events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan On How Much Money AEW Is Losing Due To The Pandemic, Not Releasing Talent
> 
> 
> AEW President and CEO Tony Khan was interviewed on the latest episode of AEW Unrestricted and described the process of putting together the AEW shows…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com


This is about covid and their restrictions, yeah? so out of their hands, right?










How AEW Turned A Profit Despite Coronavirus Changing Plans


AEW had a very tough month in April, but so did everyone else on the planet. They needed to cancel some big shows with important angles planned. It wasn't




www.ringsidenews.com








> AEW did break even in April, actually making a very small profit. With television not being taped every week, it has reduced costs, although the reduction of costs is not enough to offset the loss of the live gates from what would have been five Wednesday night shows, but the reduction does partially offset that. The company turned a very small profit between the money from TNT for television, online merchandise money and costs being down by doing all the taping over two days in Decatur, GA.


So actually, imagine that they still made a profit, even after not making "millions of dollars". fucking impressive bro. Cheers for posting that.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> This is about covid and their restrictions, yeah? so out of their hands, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How AEW Turned A Profit Despite Coronavirus Changing Plans
> 
> 
> AEW had a very tough month in April, but so did everyone else on the planet. They needed to cancel some big shows with important angles planned. It wasn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So actually, imagine that they still made a profit, even after not making "millions of dollars". fucking impressive bro. Cheers for posting that.


That report came from Meltzer which Tony Khan already disputed in the link that I posted.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> That report came from Meltzer which Tony Khan already disputed in the link that I posted.


Bro, he's saying that they're not making millions because they can't do live shows. It's that they're not making the same millions that they did before coronavirus.

Basically they're staying afloat, making a tiny bit of profit. Not what TK wants, but it's out of their hands. It clearly says revenue in the quote.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Bro, he's saying that they're not making millions because they can't do live shows. It's that they're not making the same millions that they did before coronavirus.
> 
> Basically they're staying afloat, making a tiny bit of profit. Not what TK wants, but it's out of their hands.


I know that what Im saying is they didn't make a profit according to Tony Khan. Im much more inclined to believe Tony over Dave because hes the CEO of the company.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> I know that what Im saying is they didn't make a profit according to Tony Khan. Im much more inclined to believe Tony over Dave because hes the CEO of the company.


of course they didn't make their normal level of profit bro. are you an idiot. You are making it out that we are in a flourishing economy where there's no restrictions on movement or live events. Anybody with common sense will know that a start-up like AEW will struggle during Covid.

Your original post said that "they're losing millions". That's false and your source clearly does not say that at all. Your source has said they didn't make millions of revenue during this period of economic recession and extreme restrictions. My source said they still made a profit. They do not contradict each other* at all.*

Drop the unnecessary agenda or you'll get banned again bro. Just chill with it. There are more important things going on in the World than sitting on WF and worrying about AEW.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> of course they didn't make their normal level of profit bro. are you an idiot. You are making it out that we are in a flourishing economy where there's no restrictions on movement or live events. Anybody with common sense will know that a start-up like AEW will struggle during Covid.
> 
> Your original post said that "they're losing millions". That's false and your source clearly does not say that at all. Your source has said they didn't make millions of revenue during this period of economic recession and extreme restrictions. My source said they still made a profit. They do not contradict each other* at all.*
> 
> Drop the unnecessary agenda or you'll get banned again bro. Just chill with it. There are more important things going on in the World than sitting on WF and worrying about AEW.


Personal attacks proves nothing. All it shows is that you can't make a good argument against what I said. Tony literally says that they've lost millions 

"We were on a really good run. What was happening in between _Revolution_ and Double or Nothing, this was going to be the best run of business we've ever had, and we've lost millions and millions of dollars in live events.

Thats what he said.

They do contradict each other because Tony said they've lost millions of dollars while Dave says they've turned a profit. Thats a contradiction.

You're going to get banned if you don't stop insulting people because thats what the mods ban people over. So why are you here if theres more important things to do than to worry about AEW?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW is losing so much money that they just gave more big money to Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, and FTR!!!

LOL.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW is losing so much money that they just gave more big money to Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, and FTR!!!
> 
> LOL.


Except thats what Tony Khan said and by the way that money came from Shahid Khan that he gave to Tony. So they're still losing millions as he said.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW is losing so much money that they just gave more big money to Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, and FTR!!!
> 
> LOL.


they’ll be dead by yesterday!


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> It's difficult to compare TNA and AEW ppv numbers
> 
> AEW numbers are worldwide while TNA were only domestic. TNA ppvs used to air for free on Challenge tv channel in UK
> 
> Domestically Wrestlemania 17 is most bought pro wrestling ppv ever by some distance but if you include world wide then Wrestlemania 21, 23, 24, 27, 28 and 29 beat 17


Some valid reasoning there. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think AEW ‘could have’ 1m international buys On FITE


No, they couldn’t. About a third of AEW’s total buys come internationally. They got 120k buys for Double or Nothing. That’s about 40k buys internationally.

Chip posted the Australian TNA numbers. They were comparable to WWE numbers—just above 20k. It would be very unlikely that AEW, which does not have a television deal to my knowledge, would get even 1k buys from Australia, and that’s like one of the biggest international markets they’d have outside the obvious (UK, Canada, Japan, etc.). 



optikk sucks said:


> FITE TV COO Michael Weber Says AEW Live Viewership In Europe Is "Quite Staggering"
> 
> 
> Since All Elite Wrestling launched their weekly TV show Dynamite on October 2, the young promotion has created a loyal following around the world. One area in particular AEW has tried to grow in is Europe, with Dynamite currently available to watch on ITV in the UK and on AEW Plus in most...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cultaholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "t's been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it's had a steady climb. I would say it's not a rocket ship but it's a steady climb with no fall off. "
> 
> that's all we really know about FiteTV and AEW. But people in over 100 countries subscribed to AEW Plus is an absolute WIN. AEW is worldwide. That's a fact.


This is a PR statement. That just means FITE is available in over 100 countries. 



optikk sucks said:


> ok chip you're just speculating now
> 
> stick to the facts presented to you.


Funny. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW is just managed far, far better than TNA was. There is absolutely no contest if you try to compare Tony Khan and Dixie Carter. That is a major advantage for AEW, Khan is heavily involved and they were sinking in December before he took a stronger interest in the booking in January.
> 
> McMahon's legacy makes him currently untouchable but I would suggest that Khan is the 4th most active owner in a major promotion that I can remember in my lifetime after McMahon, Heyman, & Watts.


It’s way too early to say. Right now, AEW seems like a cross between Eric Bischoff and Dixie Carter. Let’s give Tony Khan time to run this thing into the ground. What people who praise AEW for “achieving” so much “so early” in their run ignore, is that AEW was too big to fail. The Khans have enough money to cover AEW’s business costs in the interest on a bank account. This has been way smaller than it should be, but is still too big to fail.

It’ll fail when fans stop supporting it because something shinier or actually good comes along. That or it insults the intelligence of its audience and they drop to like 420K (which was my predicted eventual bottom for AEW).

I think this thing is going to lose steam within the next five years. MJF, Jungle Boy, Sammy Guevara, Britt Baker, Jim Ross and Chris Jericho will all jump ship to the WWE. That’s the only place to be a star and get noticed by millions on a global audience. When that happens, ratings are going to take a further hit. It will really get the TNA stank and the wheels will start falling off. More in-fighting, etc. I can see Omega retiring to the mountains to chop wood. Then TNT will feel conned for renewing them for that extended amount and they’ll either lose their slot or be pulled when the deal expires (should the Khans not to be smart enough to negotiate before Chris Jericho and MJF, especially, leave).



TKO Wrestling said:


> Dixie might have actually ran TNA better than Bischoff did WCW, both crumbled. I mean look at things now, WWE has morphed into TNA and isn’t hurting too bad. Maybe Dixie really did suck.


It’s way too early to say that AEW isn’t going to crumble, haha.



optikk sucks said:


> Dixie was a full on mark. If AEW ever have Hogan, Hall, Nash on TV, i'm going to stop watching .


Instead you’ve got The Bucks, Omega and Cody bringing all their friends in. Just because they can do moonsaults, it doesn’t mean they are less political.



Ozell Gray said:


> Personal attacks proves nothing. All it shows is that you can't make a good argument against what I said. Tony literally says that they've lost millions
> 
> "We were on a really good run. What was happening in between _Revolution_ and Double or Nothing, this was going to be the best run of business we've ever had, and we've lost millions and millions of dollars in live events.
> 
> Thats what he said.
> 
> They do contradict each other because Tony said they've lost millions of dollars while Dave says they've turned a profit. Thats a contradiction.
> 
> You're going to get banned if you don't stop insulting people because thats what the mods ban people over. So why are you here if theres more important things to do than to worry about AEW?


To be fair, contextually I’d take that admittedly ambiguous quote to mean that they aren’t getting money from live gates, which would total millions of dollars. It doesn’t necessarily contradict the idea that AEW could be keeping its head up with show costs reduced.

What is going to be worrying for them is if shows get more expensive when they travel, but attendance isn’t as lucrative. They will be depending on their TV deals just like Vince.

The Rock’s Titan Games just got 4.2 million viewers running opposite Raw. I don’t want to hear about how WWE cannot be beaten. I don’t want to hear about how Raw’s always going to have an advantage because it’s established. I want The Rock to start up his own promotion and try and get those numbers on cable or a network on a different night of the week.

Right now he’s in bed with NBC, so it’s more likely they do a Raw/NXT/Titan Games crossover. But come on, Rocky, give us our pro-wrestling alternative.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Except thats what Tony Khan said and by the way that money came from Shahid Khan that he gave to Tony. So they're still losing millions as he said.


Dude they made a little profit during the month with all the taped shows.


----------



## Klitschko

Not trying to start a dick measuring contest here, but just saw in the raw thread that their ratings are almost to where AEW's debut show was. Still higher then what AEW is getting obviously but I think its amazing that while Raw is falling more and more each week in ratings crazy quickly, AEW has been able to stay in that same general area like before the quarantine took fans away from the building. Props to them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Not trying to start a dick measuring contest here, but just saw in the raw thread that their ratings are almost to where AEW's debut show was. Still higher then what AEW is getting obviously but I think its amazing that while Raw is falling more and more each week in ratings crazy quickly, AEW has been able to stay in that same general area like before the quarantine took fans away from the building. Props to them.


Don't worry, as the AEW fans say in this very thread the WWE numbers will return to normal once COVID-19 is over.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah, wwe should be back to some sort of normal when all is said and done

maybe a tad lower than before

that being said - i’m not sure the key demo will climb up easily again


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't worry, as the AEW fans say in this very thread the WWE numbers will return to normal once COVID-19 is over.


Im sure they will go up a bit. I wouldn't mind. I'm indifferent to wwe and pretty casual when it comes to them at this point. Just mean that it really is pretty amazing that one wrestling company can pretty much stay leveled off during this pandemic and the other keeps losing viewers weekly. Like whats the reason for that?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Im sure they will go up a bit. I wouldn't mind. I'm indifferent to wwe and pretty casual when it comes to them at this point. Just mean that it really is pretty amazing that one wrestling company can pretty much stay leveled off during this pandemic and the other keeps losing viewers weekly. Like whats the reason for that?


over 50s are watching news now?


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> Dude they made a little profit during the month with all the taped shows.


Which was reported by Meltzer and not tony Khan.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Im sure they will go up a bit. I wouldn't mind. I'm indifferent to wwe and pretty casual when it comes to them at this point. Just mean that it really is pretty amazing that one wrestling company can pretty much stay leveled off during this pandemic and the other keeps losing viewers weekly. Like whats the reason for that?


Well, AEW kind of took a hit at first two, and it's numbers now aren't guaranteed to hold. NXT was doing quite well at holding for a while, but has dipped recently. But I think they stay steady because they have the more hardcore audiences. Raw is a three-hour show, which means it's tedious already, let alone during a pandemic. They probably do need to do something to refresh and ignite things on that show, but it's not like AEW is exceptionally growing an audience.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't worry, as the AEW fans say in this very thread the WWE numbers will return to normal once COVID-19 is over.


I doubt they get back up to the 1.9-2.1 that they were getting before.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

prosperwithdeen said:


> I doubt they get back up to the 1.9-2.1 that they were getting before.


I dunno, if you disregard the 3rd hour they drew 1.8 million on Monday. I think that is definitely their baseline, that 3rd hour is such an anchor. It killed Nitro and has, IMO, killed Raw.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> I dunno, if you disregard the 3rd hour they drew 1.8 million on Monday. I think that is definitely their baseline, that 3rd hour is such an anchor. It killed Nitro and has, IMO, killed Raw.


It’s very hard sitting through 2 hours of RAW let alone 3 hours so I’m not surprised.


----------



## AEWMoxley

You have to wonder how All Out will do. DON was just a filler card, and still broke the company record. You'd think that they would have a legit world title challenger take on Moxley this time - someone like MJF. Then you've got Tyson's involvement. With the proper build, All Out should be looking at 130-140K buys.

At the same time, though, they'd be going up against college football, which could potentially take some buys away.


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> You have to wonder how All Out will do. DON was just a filler card, and still broke the company record. You'd think that they would have a legit world title challenger take on Moxley this time - someone like MJF. Then you've got Tyson's involvement. With the proper build, All Out should be looking at 130-140K buys.
> 
> At the same time, though, they'd be going up against college football, which could potentially take some buys away.


I think I read somewhere that DON was at 115-120K buys now, and that was for a mostly filler card like you said, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 160K-180K buys for All Out. I think if they run with the obvious money programs they can do it:

MJF vs Moxley
Hangman Page vs Kenny Omega
FTR vs Young Bucks

Add a Big Cody TNT Title Match and add PAC to the card and we're off to the races IMO. All Out has the potential to be HUGE this year.


----------



## Erik.

I don't think All Out will be much bigger.

I'd say 110-120k would be perfectly fine for it - they got 101,000 for it last year so anything more than that would be an improvement.


----------



## AEWMoxley

prosperwithdeen said:


> I think I read somewhere that DON was at 115-120K buys now, and that was for a mostly filler card like you said, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 160K-180K buys for All Out. I think if they run with the obvious money programs they can do it:
> 
> MJF vs Moxley
> Hangman Page vs Kenny Omega
> FTR vs Young Bucks
> 
> Add a Big Cody TNT Title Match and add PAC to the card and we're off to the races IMO. All Out has the potential to be HUGE this year.


I think 160-180K is a huge stretch. Don't think they'll hit that, especially with them going up against college football.



Erik. said:


> I don't think All Out will be much bigger.
> 
> I'd say 110-120k would be perfectly fine for it - they got 101,000 for it last year so anything more than that would be an improvement.


Last year, Moxley was pulled from the event. That show would have done significantly better with him in it than the 101K they ended up doing.

They should do better than DON 2020.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> I think 160-180K is a huge stretch. Don't think they'll hit that, especially with them going up against college football.
> 
> 
> 
> Last year, Moxley was pulled from the event. That show would have done significantly better with him in it than the 101K they ended up doing.
> 
> They should do better than DON 2020.


Not entirely sure that's true considering Moxley main evented the next 3 PPVs, one of which was his first world title win and only 1 of them got a higher buy rate than All Out 2019.

I'd be amazed if All Out got a higher buy rate than DON'20 and if it does, it'll be by about 5k more at most.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> Not entirely sure that's true considering Moxley main evented the next 3 PPVs, one of which was his first world title win and only 1 of them got a higher buy rate than All Out 2019.
> 
> I'd be amazed if All Out got a higher buy rate than DON'20 and if it does, it'll be by about 5k more at most.


Revolution and DON 2020 both had more buys than All Out, and that's despite Revolution being their first PPV after AEW lost ITV in the UK (which is a big market for them.) Full Gear was on par with All Out, but that went up against KSI vs Paul, which was a massive event.

I don't think All Out buys will be significantly higher than DON, but I would certainly expect an increase.


----------



## taker1986

I wonder how many of that 120k were UK buys?? It would be interesting to see the buys per country.

Also far more people than that would've watched. I know someone that did a live stream on Discord that apparently had 100 people watching, so there's plenty of people that will be showing this on Discord, FB and many other ways, so it's likely double than the actual number.

All I know is that AEW is shown on ITV1 on Monday night, which is the most watched channel in the country. Back in October when the TV shows began I knew nobody that was watching this or even knew about it. Now I know plenty of people that either watch it or take a passing interest. AEW is definitely growing pretty fast here and I reckon they could easily sell out Craven cottage or the O2 Arena for a PPV next year.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Some valid reasoning there.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they couldn’t. About a third of AEW’s total buys come internationally. They got 120k buys for Double or Nothing. That’s about 40k buys internationally.
> 
> Chip posted the Australian TNA numbers. They were comparable to WWE numbers—just above 20k. It would be very unlikely that AEW, which does not have a television deal to my knowledge, would get even 1k buys from Australia, and that’s like one of the biggest international markets they’d have outside the obvious (UK, Canada, Japan, etc.).
> 
> 
> 
> This is a PR statement. That just means FITE is available in over 100 countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s way too early to say. Right now, AEW seems like a cross between Eric Bischoff and Dixie Carter. Let’s give Tony Khan time to run this thing into the ground. What people who praise AEW for “achieving” so much “so early” in their run ignore, is that AEW was too big to fail. The Khans have enough money to cover AEW’s business costs in the interest on a bank account. This has been way smaller than it should be, but is still too big to fail.
> 
> It’ll fail when fans stop supporting it because something shinier or actually good comes along. That or it insults the intelligence of its audience and they drop to like 420K (which was my predicted eventual bottom for AEW).
> 
> I think this thing is going to lose steam within the next five years. MJF, Jungle Boy, Sammy Guevara, Britt Baker, Jim Ross and Chris Jericho will all jump ship to the WWE. That’s the only place to be a star and get noticed by millions on a global audience. When that happens, ratings are going to take a further hit. It will really get the TNA stank and the wheels will start falling off. More in-fighting, etc. I can see Omega retiring to the mountains to chop wood. Then TNT will feel conned for renewing them for that extended amount and they’ll either lose their slot or be pulled when the deal expires (should the Khans not to be smart enough to negotiate before Chris Jericho and MJF, especially, leave).
> 
> 
> 
> It’s way too early to say that AEW isn’t going to crumble, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead you’ve got The Bucks, Omega and Cody bringing all their friends in. Just because they can do moonsaults, it doesn’t mean they are less political.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, contextually I’d take that admittedly ambiguous quote to mean that they aren’t getting money from live gates, which would total millions of dollars. It doesn’t necessarily contradict the idea that AEW could be keeping its head up with show costs reduced.
> 
> What is going to be worrying for them is if shows get more expensive when they travel, but attendance isn’t as lucrative. They will be depending on their TV deals just like Vince.
> 
> The Rock’s Titan Games just got 4.2 million viewers running opposite Raw. I don’t want to hear about how WWE cannot be beaten. I don’t want to hear about how Raw’s always going to have an advantage because it’s established. I want The Rock to start up his own promotion and try and get those numbers on cable or a network on a different night of the week.
> 
> Right now he’s in bed with NBC, so it’s more likely they do a Raw/NXT/Titan Games crossover. But come on, Rocky, give us our pro-wrestling alternative.


Remember when this guy predicted company's demise by wm? 
Lots of backtracking


----------



## Aedubya

Pippen94 said:


> Remember when this guy predicted company's demise by wm?
> Lots of backtracking


Which guy?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Remember when this guy predicted company's demise by wm?
> Lots of backtracking


No, because you literally made it up. I said I think NXT would overtake them in the ratings around WrestleMania time (which hasn’t happened as I predicted, but they’re still a pubic hair away from each), and that the dream could be over by the end of 2020. Hell, if they’re only getting $45 million a year for wrestling, I’d suggest that there’s something to that.

Don’t understand the context of this reply either. Seems kind of Gartyish. Do you have any actual response to my points, or are you just going to throw up straw-men (not even accurately rendered straw-men either).


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No, because you literally made it up. I said I think NXT would overtake them in the ratings around WrestleMania time (which hasn’t happened as I predicted, but they’re still a pubic hair away from each), and that the dream could be over by the end of 2020. Hell, if they’re only getting $45 million a year for wrestling, I’d suggest that there’s something to that.
> 
> Don’t understand the context of this reply either. Seems kind of Gartyish. Do you have any actual response to my points, or are you just going to throw up straw-men (not even accurately rendered straw-men either).


Why are you using pretense? You prediction didn't happen. Wm has passed. Shows how much your predictions are worth.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> Which guy?


I dunno - also seeing nothing


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Why are you using pretense? You prediction didn't happen. Wm has passed. Shows how much your predictions are worth.


No, my prediction on the ratings didn’t happen. Boo-hoo. It’s a shame NXT didn’t get interesting during the virus, and that Scarlett has only debuted recently. Spanner thrown in the works, but I won’t claim it as a victory when NXT does take over. ;-) 

None of that has anything to do with your assertion being completely bogus though.


----------



## Erik.

I reckon between 700,000 and 750,000 this week. 

Mostly because that's the usual norm of AEW, when they have a high rating they tend to go down again the following week and the news, riots etc


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yah, news will once again be tops

It can even go 650 / but I recon 750 is right


----------



## Prosper

Im gonna guess about 730-750K this week


----------



## RapShepard

I'll guess 750k-900k, between 5-10 overall, and demo I don't fucking know. Imagine news is still killing it


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Under 700k for me


----------



## IamMark

I think nxt takes it this week.


----------



## IamMark

27th 730k 0.29 AEW
45th 715k 0.20 NXT


----------



## Pippen94

IamMark said:


> I think nxt takes it this week.


Not good bet - only one win in history


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Hey that ain’t bad at all. NXT killing it - moving up finally.


----------



## bdon

That Cody heavy show just killing it! Wooooo! Figure four and blood!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IamMark said:


> 27th 730k 0.29 AEW
> 45th 715k 0.20 NXT


Eh, as expected. Shame they couldn’t keep it past 800k


----------



## RainmakerV2

FTR lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

I'm not waching either shows as i'm waiting for crowds to return. Only thing i've watched is Wrestlemania & Money in the Bank since no crowds.

But nice to see NXT is picking up steam.

Looks like Mike Tyson segment didn't bringing a load of new fans curious this week. Hope Tony didn't pay too much too all those guys. But i think anything over 700k without a crowd is reasonable.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I'll guess 750k-900k, between 5-10 overall, and demo I don't fucking know. Imagine news is still killing it


750-900k is basically the range since Week 4! Going out on a limb there lol


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> 750-900k is basically the range since Week 4! Going out on a limb there lol


hey I'm just betting that somebody watched


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> 750-900k is basically the range since Week 4! Going out on a limb there lol


Small matters of pandemic & protests since then


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> That Cody heavy show just killing it! Wooooo! Figure four and blood!


Come on bud out of the 26 shows in front of AEW, 20 were news

Also remember every time there is something big happening AEW is more hurt than NXT.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Come on bud out of the 26 shows in front of AEW, 20 were news


NXT nipping at the heels really is news.


----------



## Oracle

Thats a fucking terrible rating.

You lost viewers with Tyson on the previous week yikes...


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> NXT nipping at the heels really is news.


Well i kind of answered you with my edit on my previous post but since the start of AEW, AEW have Always been more hurt than NXT when Something special was happening on other channels


----------



## bdon

Episodes with Cody are typically full of filler BS in an effort to emphasize Cody.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Oracle said:


> Thats a fucking terrible rating.
> 
> You lost viewers with Tyson on the previous week yikes...



And after FTRs debut and with Omega and Page defending the belt and with Jericho wrestling and with Cody defending.


But ya know, da news.


----------



## rbl85

Oracle said:


> Thats a fucking terrible rating.
> 
> You lost viewers with Tyson on the previous week yikes...


It just show that people that don't usually or never watch wrestling will not start to watch it just because a star is appearing.

Because we can bet that if Tyson do a match against anybody you want on PPV......the match is going to do huge buys numbers.


----------



## bdon

FTR interview, not a match. 
Omega/Hangman vs a team that no one cares about. 
Jericho in a match with COLT.

Hmmmm...


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Episodes with Cody are typically full of filler BS in an effort to emphasize Cody.


Because you think 100K people tuned out during the show ? XD

I bet that the show started with 760K viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> FTR interview, not a match.
> Omega/Hangman vs a team that no one cares about.
> Jericho in a match with COLT.
> 
> Hmmmm...



Oh and NXT was nothing but video packages and Drake Maverick vs. Some guy from CMLL or something lol


----------



## Erik.

Rating were just as I expected. Standard AEW rating through the pandemic (4th highest of crowdless era) and keeps up the usual high one week, low the next etc

Again though, news dominating as expected with everything that's going on. 

It'll probably go up again next week.


----------



## Erik.

Oracle said:


> Thats a fucking terrible rating.
> 
> You lost viewers with Tyson on the previous week yikes...


But why would that indicate higher viewers when Tyson isn't advertised this week? 

Theres a reason the WWFs ratings in 1998 didn't go up after Tyson/Austin (lost 600k infact the following week)


----------



## Pippen94

With news & iyh this was a chance to slip ahead but never happens. Fyter Fest & return to live crowds will mean aew pulling away further


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Because you think 100K people tuned out during the show ? XD
> 
> I bet that the show started with 760K viewers.


No, I’m betting everyone saw the card and knew they wouldn’t be missing anything. I knew exactly what fucking match was going to start the show, and I’d imagine there weren’t too many fans excited about a match with Kip Sabian and Jimmy fucking Havoc or Colt Cabana or Nyla vs Swole.

So, no, I’d imagine 100k people decided this show looked like shit, other than the main event.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> FTR interview, not a match.
> Omega/Hangman vs a team that no one cares about.
> Jericho in a match with COLT.
> 
> Hmmmm...



Well that kinda the thing. They've created a world where the elite, Mox and Jericho are so far ahead of everyone and never gonna lose on TV because of a stupid ranking system that insists they have to win to stay on top, that watching their matches are utterly pointless.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> No, I’m betting everyone saw the card and knew they wouldn’t be missing anything. I knew exactly what fucking match was going to start the show, and I’d imagine there weren’t too many fans excited about a match with Kip Sabian and Jimmy fucking Havoc or Colt Cabana or Nyla vs Swole.
> 
> So, no, I’d imagine 100k people decided this show looked like shit, other than the main event.


The card would have change nothing and actually i think it would have been a mistake to have a big card this week.


----------



## Erik.

What I have noticed is that AEW seems to have dramatic drops or dramatic gains. 

Which is weird. Its like some weeks 100k will decide to watch and sometimes 100k won't. 

Though this year it seems to be when something significant is happening (Corona, Riots etc)


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> The card would have change nothing and actually i think it would have been a mistake to have a big card this week.


It wasn’t live, so they had no clue what news was going to occur.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> What I have noticed is that AEW seems to have dramatic drops or dramatic gains.
> 
> Which is weird. Its like some weeks 100k will decide to watch and sometimes 100k won't.
> 
> Though this year it seems to be when something significant is happening (Corona, Riots etc)



Younger audiences arent as loyal and will fluctuate. Maybe they decided to Netflix or Disney Plus instead. Plus they all know the illegal streaming sites who will have it on demand later.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> It wasn’t live, so they had no clue what news was going to occur.


You're right and they probably already know what's going to happen for each show before fyter fest.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Well i kind of answered you with my edit on my previous post but since the start of AEW, AEW have Always been more hurt than NXT when Something special was happening on other channels


Doesnt that just mean they have the less diehard fans? And isnt that just a bad sign? If this was an NXT episode everyone would have said „takeover like episode“ and AEW with two titles, a Tyson ending on last episode, the new hyped tag team and even Mox on the show lose 100k, when NXT with a good but not great episode just lost 15k with the news on?

AEW should workin keeping these people even with news on, especially news going in for a week 24/7.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Erik. said:


> What I have noticed is that AEW seems to have dramatic drops or dramatic gains.
> 
> Which is weird. Its like some weeks 100k will decide to watch and sometimes 100k won't.
> 
> Though this year it seems to be when something significant is happening (Corona, Riots etc)


AEW has more casuals. Although average viewership is under 900k, there have more people that dont see watching it live as priority. That is why it fluctuates when something better is on.

They are a bit lucky there is no major sports on TV right now on Wednesday. The NBA playoff would be a killer right now.

I think its similar for RAW, there is no way that many viewers have fully tuned out. They just aint watching 3hr shows that aint must see Live. Its 2020.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Younger audiences arent as loyal and will fluctuate. Maybe they decided to Netflix or Disney Plus instead. Plus they all know the illegal streaming sites who will have it on demand later.


You remember the big drop (much bigger than NXT) the week of the World Series ?

I think that you're right when you say that AEW audience is less loyal than the one of NXT. Now that could mean that those not so loyal viewers probably weren't wrestling fans before AEW was on TNT


----------



## fabi1982

Oh and „real housewifes“ even gained viewers, despite the news...also young demo etc.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Doesnt that just mean they have the less diehard fans? And isnt that just a bad sign? If this was an NXT episode everyone would have said „takeover like episode“ and AEW with two titles, a Tyson ending on last episode, the new hyped tag team and even Mox on the show lose 100k, when NXT with a good but not great episode just lost 15k with the news on?
> 
> AEW should workin keeping these people even with news on, especially news going in for a week 24/7.


They ran another half-assed effort of a show where nothing really important happens. Well...except Cody’s shit. Not even Moxley’s segment felt important.

I guess 8 weeks of television and an entire tournament built around his story wasn’t enough to tell the full Cody rHHHodes story.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> AEW has more casuals. Although average viewership is under 900k, there have more people that dont see watching it live as priority. That is why it fluctuates when something better is on.
> 
> They are a bit lucky there is no major sports on TV right now on Wednesday. The NBA playoff would be a killer right now.
> 
> I think its similar for RAW, there is no way that many viewers have fully tuned out. They just aint watching 3hr shows that aint must see Live. Its 2020.


Plus you can see the highlights of the show on internet


----------



## Erik.

RainmakerV2 said:


> Younger audiences arent as loyal and will fluctuate. Maybe they decided to Netflix or Disney Plus instead. Plus they all know the illegal streaming sites who will have it on demand later.


Could well be in all honesty.

Personally, I think NXT and AEW both done well this week under the circumstances, especially NXT.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> You remember the big drop (much bigger than NXT) the week of the World Series ?
> 
> I think that you're right when you say that AEW audience is less loyal than the one of NXT. Now that could mean that those not so loyal viewers probably weren't wrestling fans before AEW was on TNT


A lot of people watch these shows later. NXT on Network ad free. AEW i'm guessing on FiteTV or download. It is actually only this section where we all analyse the rating in such great detail lol. I guess cus the company is still new.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Remember when everyone was raving about that card on paper for some bizarre reason?

I told everyone it was a garbage card. Nothing of any importance was announced, and the show revolved around an irrelevant midcard title.

Looks like we are getting mostly filler between now and Fyter Fest, which will really be just two regular episodes of Dynamite. I don't expect any big boost during Fyter Fest, either.

Next week's card looks even worse than last night's right now.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> You remember the big drop (much bigger than NXT) the week of the World Series ?
> 
> I think that you're right when you say that AEW audience is less loyal than the one of NXT. Now that could mean that those not so loyal viewers probably weren't wrestling fans before AEW was on TNT



Its more concerning because NXT was a nothing show last night. AEW was coming off of Tyson, had FTR there, Cage was there, Cody, Omega and Page in title matches, NXT was video packages and a match with some dude from CMLL. AEW should have stomped NXTs head in this week.


----------



## Prosper

730K is a decent number. That's about what I was expecting. Pretty much around what they have been doing on average during Corona before Tyson. Like others have said, both shows are not watched live by a lot of people so numbers will always be inaccurate for any wrestling show. Then you have all the stuff happening in the news. All this discussion is useless in the end considering those facts.

NXT and that cruiserweight stuff actually drew 715K, great number for them, I didn't think people still cared about cruiserweights honestly.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Remember when everyone was raving about that card on paper for some bizarre reason?
> 
> I told everyone it was a garbage card. Nothing of any importance was announced, and the show revolved around an irrelevant midcard title.
> 
> Looks like we are getting mostly filler between now and Fyter Fest, which will really be just two regular episodes of Dynamite. I don't expect any big boost during Fyter Fest, either.
> 
> Next week's card looks even worse than last night's right now.


Yeah, I’m not sure why anyone was excited about that card, even if parts of it were better than I expected.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> 730K is a decent number. That's about what I was expecting. Pretty much around what they have been doing on average during Corona before Tyson. Like others have said, both shows are not watched live by a lot of people so numbers will always be inaccurate for any wrestling show. Then you have all the stuff happening in the news. All this discussion is useless in the end considering those facts.
> 
> NXT and that cruiserweight stuff actually drew 715K, I didn't think people still cared about cruiserweights honestly.


Takeover go home show


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> Remember when everyone was raving about that card on paper for some bizarre reason?
> 
> I told everyone it was a garbage card. Nothing of any importance was announced, and the show revolved around an irrelevant midcard title.
> 
> Looks like we are getting mostly filler between now and Fyter Fest, which will really be just two regular episodes of Dynamite. I don't expect any big boost during Fyter Fest, either.
> 
> Next week's card looks even worse than last night's right now.


AEW aren’t the best at keeping people interested. I’ve lost interest many times in between PPVs.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> AEW aren’t the best at keeping people interested. I’ve lost interest many times in between PPVs.


Specifically when it’s a Cody show, because everyone knows that show is going to be full of filler and Cody Rhodes.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Takeover go home show


Ahh I forgot Takeover was this weekend, that certainly helped


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Specifically when it’s a Cody show, because everyone knows that show is going to be full of filler and Cody Rhodes.


Oh please dude stop


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> AEW aren’t the best at keeping people interested. I’ve lost interest many times in between PPVs.


This is true. They have too many of these nothing shows where they've got nothing but meaningless matches. I get that they have a lot of time between PPVs, but you can easily work around that. For example, if you're going to do Moxley vs MJF at All Out (which would be the right decision) then have MJF get involved in the title picture now. He's the #1 ranked singles guy and he should be cutting promos on the upcoming Moxley vs Cage match, talking about his interest in the outcome and how he intends to challenge the winner at All Out.

You can do this with other matches too. You can already start to lay some of the groundwork for All Out.

As of now, all we are getting is a half assed build to Fyter Fest, where probably nothing noteworthy will happen. In other words, it's all filler until July.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> AEW aren’t the best at keeping people interested. I’ve lost interest many times in between PPVs.


Their PPV's are so far apart that there will be dead periods from time to time, I lost interest sometimes last year myself, that's why these free mini-PPV's like Fyter Fest are essential. This year I have managed to be entertained by everything going on though. All of Cody's stuff has been great and the Elite vs IC storyline was cool. Mox vs Cage has me highly interested.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Specifically when it’s a Cody show, because everyone knows that show is going to be full of filler and Cody Rhodes.


Actually I enjoy Cody Rhodes


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> This is true. They have too many of these nothing shows where they've got nothing but meaningless matches. I get that they have a lot of time between PPVs, but you can easily work around that. For example, if you're going to do Moxley vs MJF at All Out (which would be the right decision) then have MJF get involved in the title picture now. He's the #1 ranked singles guy and he should be cutting promos on the upcoming Moxley vs Cage match, talking about his interest in the outcome and how he intends to challenge the winner at All Out.
> 
> You can do this with other matches too. You can already start to lay some of the groundwork for All Out.
> 
> As of now, all we are getting is a half assed build to Fyter Fest, where probably nothing noteworthy will happen. In other words, it's all filler until July.


Everything felt like filler...except Cody’s shit.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Actually I enjoy Cody Rhodes


I didn’t imply that you didn’t.
The show was all filler BS...and Cody Rhodes.


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> This is true. They have too many of these nothing shows where they've got nothing but meaningless matches. I get that they have a lot of time between PPVs, but you can easily work around that. For example, if you're going to do Moxley vs MJF at All Out (which would be the right decision) then have MJF get involved in the title picture now. He's the #1 ranked singles guy and he should be cutting promos on the upcoming Moxley vs Cage match, talking about his interest in the outcome and how he intends to challenge the winner at All Out.
> 
> You can do this with other matches too. You can already start to lay some of the groundwork for All Out.
> 
> As of now, all we are getting is a half assed build to Fyter Fest, where probably nothing noteworthy will happen. In other words, it's all filler until July.


You don't think that's too soon though? We still have about 90 days until All Out, that's a long time. If MJF starts talking shit now, he will run out of stuff to say by mid-July then he'll just be repeating himself every week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> Their PPV's are so far apart that there will be dead periods from time to time, I lost interest sometimes last year myself, that's why these free mini-PPV's like Fyter Fest are essential. This year I have managed to be entertained by everything going on though. All of Cody's stuff has been great and the Elite vs IC storyline was cool.


they've 100% done better this time round for me as well. I've watched more shows than I've missed

However, i felt like there was no reason to watch this week. They didn't intrigue me with anything that was unmissable (i didn't fully watch this show, i'll be honest).
If they promised a showdown between Cage and Moxley, I would've watched. But they promoted them separately, which made me think nothing would happen. Now something to kickstart the feud, like Cage smashing up Moxley's GT.
If they promised Archer, I would've watched. 
If there was ANY chance that JB would beat Cody, I would watch.
etc

there needs to be better promotion and reasons to watch


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Everything felt like filler...except Cody’s shit.


Cody's match felt like filler to me, too. They tried to make it seem important, but there was no feud between the two, the outcome was abundantly obvious, and the only thing on the line was an irrelevant midcard title. All of his matches will basically be filler until his next real feud.


----------



## bdon

I want explanation why the World Heavyweight Title has taken a backseat to a TV Title.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I want explanation why the World Heavyweight Title has taken a backseat to a TV Title.


Someone from PVP is facing Cody next week.

Backseat lol.


----------



## Oracle

Ive learnt that there taped shows are mainly not worth watching anything they do live is probably worth tuning in for. 

I wont be watching another taped show of theres again unless the card is strikingly good


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Cody's match felt like filler to me, too. They tried to make it seem important, but there was no feud between the two, the outcome was abundantly obvious, and the only thing on the line was an irrelevant midcard title. All of his matches will basically be filler until his next real feud.


Oh, I agree, but they made sure and put one of the more interesting people in his filler match.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Someone from PVP is facing Cody next week.
> 
> Backseat lol.


Which title gets more airtime and importance placed on it?


----------



## bdon

“This...is where the fun begins.”

World title, tag titles, none of that stuff should be viewed as fun.


----------



## rbl85

In comparison with last week : 

The 18-49 demo in total was down 9%
The 18-49 demo for the women was down 12.5%
The 18-49 demo for the men was down 7.5%

The 18-34 demo in total was actually up by 5.9%
The 18-34 demo women was up 9.1%
The 18-34 demo men was the same

the 25-54 demo was down 15.4%
The 50+ demo was down 10%.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> they've 100% done better this time round for me as well. I've watched more shows than I've missed
> 
> However, i felt like there was no reason to watch this week. They didn't intrigue me with anything that was unmissable (i didn't fully watch this show, i'll be honest).
> If they promised a showdown between Cage and Moxley, I would've watched. But they promoted them separately, which made me think nothing would happen. Now something to kickstart the feud, like Cage smashing up Moxley's GT.
> If they promised Archer, I would've watched.
> If there was ANY chance that JB would beat Cody, I would watch.
> etc
> 
> there needs to be better promotion and reasons to watch


I think they generally do a good job at promoting what to expect on a weekly basis, but I do agree that this week they were a little light with the promotion and anticipation. Looks like next week will be the same light promotion and filler. But you can't expect every single show to be fire every single week so I don't really mind it. As long as at least 85% of their shows are good, which they are, then I'm happy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Which title gets more airtime and importance placed on it?


AEW title lol.

When Moxley starts facing lower card competitors, then we can discuss.


----------



## Danielallen1410

About a normal rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> I think they generally do a good job at promoting what to expect on a weekly basis, but I do agree that this week they were a little light with the promotion and anticipation. Looks like next week will be the same light promotion and filler. But you can't expect every single show to be fire every single week so I don't really mind it. As long as at least 85% of their shows are good, which they are, then I'm happy.


they did good for next week because the FTR match. That was a good way to build anticipation for a match.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> AEW title lol.
> 
> When Moxley starts facing lower card competitors, then we can discuss.


When they give Moxley something interesting to do, then we can discuss.


----------



## AEWMoxley

prosperwithdeen said:


> You don't think that's too soon though? We still have about 90 days until All Out, that's a long time. If MJF starts talking shit now, he will run out of stuff to say by mid-July then he'll just be repeating himself every week.


You don't need to have him get personal with either guy. Save that for after Fyter Fest. Just have him be an annoying douche who acts as if he's assured of a world title reign, regardless of who wins at Fyter Fest.

This adds more intrigue for Moxley vs Cage, because in addition to being for the world, it's also about the babyface winning an opportunity to get his hands on the chicken shit heel at All Out.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> You don't need to have him get personal with either guy. Save that for after Fyter Fest. Just have him be an annoying douche who acts as if he's assured of a world title reign, regardless of who wins at Fyter Fest.
> 
> This adds more intrigue for Moxley vs Cage, because in addition to being for the world, it's also about the babyface winning an opportunity to get his hands on the chicken shit heel at All Out.


Have you been comfortable with Mox’s booking since becoming champion? Or do you feel they made him far more important in his chase?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> When they give Moxley something interesting to do, then we can discuss.


you consider facing Marq Quen as interesting? blurrulrrhefddfiusbfiufbufdiubufubfbuiu


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Have you been comfortable with Mox’s booking since becoming champion? Or do you feel they made him far more important in his chase?


Their booking in general has been subpar since early March, up and down the card.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon i love you, but you're an absolute fucking nutter mate. lol


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> you consider facing Marq Quen as interesting? blurrulrrhefddfiusbfiufbufdiubufubfbuiu


No. It definitely isn’t, but I fully expect a wrench to be thrown in that match.


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> You don't need to have him get personal with either guy. Save that for after Fyter Fest. Just have him be an annoying douche who acts as if he's assured of a world title reign, regardless of who wins at Fyter Fest.
> 
> This adds more intrigue for Moxley vs Cage, because in addition to being for the world, it's also about the babyface winning an opportunity to get his hands on the chicken shit heel at All Out.


Yeah, I feel you. I personally think that it would just be too much interaction too soon. Kind of like a less potent feud if you start talking now. If his jabs at Moxley/Cage are not personal, I feel like its not really needed, and won't really add anything to show. Taking light jabs is not going to draw more interest in the show as a whole from the audience and won't do anything for excitement levels. Because then you have MJF playing a soft shit talker, then later playing a hard shit talker, being overexposed like crazy. I'd rather they just start him off talking hard shit after Fyter Fest. Then his character is more consistent and the feud is more potent.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> No. It definitely isn’t, but I fully expect a wrench to be thrown in that match.


so you want fuckery in the AEW world title matches?

Cage vs Moxley is new and fresh. I haven't had the pleasure of watching Cage in TNA. When I see his squash matches, I wonder if he's gonna be able to deliver some of those hard hitting moves to Moxley.

Legit gonna be an interesting match. I'm very excited for it. More than any throwaway TNT title match. If you consider a weekly filler match as more important than something like Moxley vs Cage, then that's your problem. Your brain's wired differently.


----------



## bdon

Two dudes talking is not important.


----------



## Prosper

I'm pumped for Mox vs Cage. Taz is a big factor in that too. Much like all of Mox's title defenses, they feel like heavyweight fights. In no way does Cody's stuff feel more important.


----------



## bdon

I assume you found a match against Hager to be important as well, huh?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Two dudes talking is not important.


two guys stepping in the ring to face off for the very first time in their whole career is definitely important.

the #1 contender vs the world champion getting in the ring and starting each other down for the very first time is very important. again, your brain is wired differently.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I assume you found a match against Hager to be important as well, huh?


nope. any title match on dynamite is throwaway. i don't think there's been any title changes on Dynamite - this needs to happen asap so that people can stop feeling like the matches are predictable.


----------



## bdon

Another big guy staring Moxley in the face that is to be fed to Moxley with no chance of an upset. No, that isn’t important.

Moxley’s shit has no heat whatsoever.

“THIS...is where the fun begins.”


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Another big guy staring Moxley in the face that is to be fed to Moxley with no chance of an upset. No, that isn’t important.
> 
> Moxley’s shit has no heat whatsoever.
> 
> “THIS...is where the fun begins.”


Sadly, since he said that. The fun in the world in general has gone to shit.

I was looking forward to Moxley/MJF too.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Another big guy staring Moxley in the face that is to be fed to Moxley with no chance of an upset. No, that isn’t important.
> 
> Moxley’s shit has no heat whatsoever.
> 
> “THIS...is where the fun begins.”


Hard to get heat with no crowds.
Seems like big guys are being feed to him - would like to see a personal feud maybe with mjf for all out. Promos would be great.


----------



## bdon

It’s just...matches. That’s literally all they’re giving you with Moxley. Matches with no heat.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> Hard to get heat with no crowds.


He means heat between the competitors I would imagine; there's no story to anything.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> He means heat between the competitors I would imagine; there's no story to anything.


Exactly. It’s just...two dudes in a match.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> It’s just...matches. That’s literally all they’re giving you with Moxley. Matches with no heat.


brodie moxley had no heat? what lol

hager Moxley had no heat, but like i said, throwaway boring dynamite match.

and we've had 1 week of cage being announced as #1 competitor. patience is something you lack, i can see.


----------



## bdon

It had so much heat that Moxley let the guy walk away with his title. From 45-50’ away. MASSIVE heat. My bad.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> brodie moxley had no heat? what lol
> 
> hager Moxley had no heat, but like i said, throwaway boring dynamite match.
> 
> and we've had 1 week of cage being announced as #1 competitor. patience is something you lack, i can see.


You enjoy making multiple edits to your posts as a way to bait people I've noticed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> It had so much heat that Moxley let the guy walk away with his title. From 45-50’ away. MASSIVE heat. My bad.


and that would stop brodie calling himself the self-proclaimed world champion. didn't the DO beat him down? didn't moxley break one of the DO's arms? there's more than just 1 way of creating heat, you know.



El Hammerstone said:


> You enjoy making multiple edits to your posts as a way to bait people I've noticed.


not at all. i hit send but then i think of something else to add. the rules say you can't double-post. the rules don't say you can't make an edit. i've never heard such ridiculousness, lol. someone mentioned this earlier to me, when he tried to argue that he could beat up JB. One of your mates?


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Exactly. It’s just...two dudes in a match.


To be fair - he just won a number one contender match. That's the premise of the feud.

I don't like that they made the title match at the first possible opportunity - it's a Casino chip, what do you do with those? Cash those in for reward. Cage should have been a Terminator, hunting down Moxley and willing to cash in his chip when he feels like it would be for the best.

Cage should have been feuding with Darby Allin right now.

Where does that leave Moxley? No idea - but he shouldn't have won the belt in the first place, in my view.


----------



## Not Lying

decent rating for an otherwise very predictable show. It was also the go-home show for AEW and NXT did a job with Lee/Gargano/Candice/Mia opening, the vignettes and Drake/Fantasma was much more unpredictable than Cody/Jungle Boy.

I'd like AEW to take something from the last SD.
Almost each Match on the last SD episode was set-up between a small confrontation backstage that added heat to the match.

I find it hilarious people taking this opportunity to shit on FTR as if they're supposed to draw coming from being complete geeks in WWE. They're now in a company where they have a chance to show more character and get people moree interested in the tag division. That's it so far and you know damn well you'll be watching when they face Bucks and Adam/Omega.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> not at all. i hit send but then i think of something else to add. the rules say you can't double-post. the rules don't say you can't make an edit. i've never heard such ridiculousness, lol. someone mentioned this earlier to me, when he tried to argue that he could beat up JB. One of your mates?


Because people will respond to you, only to then realize that you've added something to your post that completely negates what that person responded with initially; it's very annoying and almost impossible to respond to someone like that, hence bait. You commented on bdon's lack of patience, but maybe you ought to learn to wait for the response to your initial point.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> Because people will respond to you, only to then realize that you've added something to your post that completely negates what that person responded with initially; it's very annoying and almost impossible to respond to someone like that, hence bait. You commented on bdon's lack of patience, but maybe you ought to learn to wait for the response to your initial point.


Lol you are now going to tell me how to post? My guy, really -_-

If you find it impossible to reply to me then don’t, lol. I don’t care if you do or you don’t

maybe you should report me for “excessive editing” lmao


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> Lol you are now going to tell me how to post? My guy, really -_-
> 
> If you find it impossible to reply to me then don’t, lol. I don’t care if you do or you don’t not.


Getting defensive, what a shock. Also, one more thing, adding lol does not give your posts any more validity. Take care.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> Getting defensive, what a shock. Also, one more thing, adding lol does not give your posts any more validity. Take care.


Where am I being defensive man? and what would I be defensive about? Come on man, why are you now taking offense over this? Bdon and I were having a discussion and you’ve decided to attack the way I post? What is this


----------



## Klitschko

I'm more hyped for Cage/Moxley then anything Cody is doing with the tnt title right now. I love the slow but intense build up to it.


----------



## Oracle

Klitschko said:


> I'm more hyped for Cage/Moxley then anything Codybis doing with the tnt title right now. I love the slow but intense build up to it.


Yeah we build up Cage make him look unstoppable and have him lose just like Archer. 

AGAIN.


----------



## bdon

Oracle said:


> Yeah we build up Cage make him look unstoppable and have him lose just like Archer.
> 
> AGAIN.


Say it a little louder for those in the back.

And you forgot to add Brodie. And Hager.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

People are freaking out about the difference being 15K but the overall demo AEW margin of victory is 45% of NXT's demo. NXT still has one win that December 18th show. I thought the show was fine. I think last week was more entertaining but I still enjoyed it. After 31 years of watching WWE I decided a few weeks ago with my time being limited with extra work I didn't have before and the weather getting nicer I needed to cut out things that aren't of value to me. So for me WWE altogether it just isn't good at all and there is not one person on the show I give a shit about. So I will enjoy what I enjoy so I bought the fucking PPV and enjoyed it and even my wife liked it enough that she went online and bought me a couple t-shirts while I was watching and we rewatched the PPV a few times.

This happened not long ago where NXT put a nothing show and was really close in viewers and people freaked out. Fact is NXT can only beat AEW if the viewership is in the low to mid 700k's and the demo is in the mid .20's and that doesn't happen very often. Facts prove me right look at that December 18th show NXT needed a 0.27 which was very high for them to edge out a 0.25 by AEW which is one of their lower numbers.


----------



## Pippen94

CMPunkRock316 said:


> People are freaking out about the difference being 15K but the overall demo AEW margin of victory is 45% of NXT's demo. NXT still has one win that December 18th show. I thought the show was fine. I think last week was more entertaining but I still enjoyed it. After 31 years of watching WWE I decided a few weeks ago with my time being limited with extra work I didn't have before and the weather getting nicer I needed to cut out things that aren't of value to me. So for me WWE altogether it just isn't good at all and there is not one person on the show I give a shit about. So I will enjoy what I enjoy so I bought the fucking PPV and enjoyed it and even my wife liked it enough that she went online and bought me a couple t-shirts while I was watching and we rewatched the PPV a few times.
> 
> This happened not long ago where NXT put a nothing show and was really close in viewers and people freaked out. Fact is NXT can only beat AEW if the viewership is in the low to mid 700k's and the demo is in the low .20's and that doesn't happen very often.


Even in total viewers they can't seem to get over the line for go home shows & when big news stories happen. Next week might be last chance before live crowds start returning which will favor aew.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW's ratings drop when Mike Tyson isn't on the show meaning they didn't hook anyone last week who tuned in just to see him. It's a shame because that first hour from last week was really strong but the second hour with the Tyson appearance was pretty weak with the Kip/Havoc tag and the Battle Royale filled with comedy characters. It'd have been enough to keep me away for good also if I was a casual I imagine.

Plus, Tyson didn't do anything fresh last week. No reason to tune in this week.



rbl85 said:


> It just show that people that don't usually or never watch wrestling will not start to watch it just because a star is appearing.
> 
> Because we can bet that if Tyson do a match against anybody you want on PPV......the match is going to do huge buys numbers.


I don't know why wrestling fans feel this way. I'm a big rugby fan and a handful of players from our national rugby competition box during the off season. Despite being a big rugby fan and liking boxing a little bit I've never bought a boxing PPV to see a player I like box or even watched it on TV because I simply don't care enough about boxing to watch an entire boxing card for a few of the rugby players to go out and box.

A few of the rugby groups on Facebook that I'm a member of will post little 30 second clips that I take a look at and I could probably find it on YouTube if I cared enough which is what Tyson fans would do for a wrestling PPV featuring him.

At best, Tyson fans who are also wrestling fans might buy the PPV or watch the TV show to see what Tyson is up to allowing AEW to try and hook those fans but with shit like Colt Cabana & The Best Friends Vs The Inner Circle and Cody defending his TNT belt against comedy geeks at title defence #2 I will say there won't be too much hooking of too many fans.



optikk sucks said:


> AEW aren’t the best at keeping people interested. I’ve lost interest many times in between PPVs.


Really now? You and a few others are very much in the "AEW do no wrong" camp. I'm surprised to read this coming from you although am pleased to see you admit that they aren't perfect.



optikk sucks said:


> Someone from PVP is facing Cody next week.
> 
> Backseat lol.


At least Cody is on the TV show next week. Moxley is defending the World Title on Dark...



optikk sucks said:


> so you want fuckery in the AEW world title matches?
> 
> Cage vs Moxley is new and fresh. I haven't had the pleasure of watching Cage in TNA. When I see his squash matches, I wonder if he's gonna be able to deliver some of those hard hitting moves to Moxley.
> 
> Legit gonna be an interesting match. I'm very excited for it. More than any throwaway TNT title match. If you consider a weekly filler match as more important than something like Moxley vs Cage, then that's your problem. Your brain's wired differently.


Cage Vs Moxley isn't new and fresh it's the exact same story they gave you with with Moxley/Brodie with some tweaking. Smaller guy (Moxley) attempts to overcome the big heel live on PPV. Will Moxley find a way to beat Cage or will Cage put him down and take his belt. It's super predictable also because we know Moxley will find some way to beat Cage because a new guy like Cage has almost no chance of taking the title right now.

It will be an interesting match and quite good in ring but lets not pretend it's new and fresh.



optikk sucks said:


> brodie moxley had no heat? what lol
> 
> hager Moxley had no heat, but like i said, throwaway boring dynamite match.
> 
> and we've had 1 week of cage being announced as #1 competitor. patience is something you lack, i can see.


Brodie/Moxley had no heat. Nobody cared including the hardcores on here. I was more pumped for Hager/Moxley on TV then Brodie/Moxley but then the bell rang...


----------



## Klitschko

Oracle said:


> Yeah we build up Cage make him look unstoppable and have him lose just like Archer.
> 
> AGAIN.


So what? Its not like he lost against a midcarder. A lot of people don't watch TNA and have no idea who Brian Cage is. As long as he puts on a great showing against Moxley, he will be fine. Better this then just randomly showing up in some midcard feud or being someone's bodyguard. And its not like he will lose against some low level player. He will lose against their top guy in the company.

I swear if some people had it their way everyone would get a sympathy world title reign. You would have Cage beat Moxley, then let me guess, MJF would beat Cage at the next ppv. Then on top of that you would have someone else beat MJF a ppv after that. There is nothing wrong with a longer title reign. Yes it will have some filler opponents and it will be predictable sometimes but that isn't really a bad thing always.


----------



## bdon

Wait...Moxley is defending the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE ON DARK!?!?

HAHAHHA

OK. Sure. His title is more important than Cody “I tried to get Vince to let me bring prestige to the IC Title” rHHHodes’ TV Title.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> Wait...Moxley is defending the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE ON DARK!?!?
> 
> HAHAHHA
> 
> OK. Sure. His title is more important than Cody “I tried to get Vince to let me bring prestige to the IC Title” rHHHodes’ TV Title.


I don't think it's a title defense; nevertheless, your world champion needs to be above Dark.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

El Hammerstone said:


> I don't think it's a title defense; nevertheless, your world champion needs to be above Dark.


I think I heard them hyping it up as the first time the World Title would be defended on Dark. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think I heard them hyping it up as the first time the World Title would be defended on Dark. I could be wrong though.


You are.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> You are.


Fair enough, still though Cody will wrestle on TV and Moxley is relegated to wrestling on the internet show.


----------



## sideon

CMPunkRock316 said:


> People are freaking out about the difference being 15K *but the overall demo AEW margin of victory is 45% of NXT's demo.* NXT still has one win that December 18th show. I thought the show was fine. I think last week was more entertaining but I still enjoyed it. After 31 years of watching WWE I decided a few weeks ago with my time being limited with extra work I didn't have before and the weather getting nicer I needed to cut out things that aren't of value to me. So for me WWE altogether it just isn't good at all and there is not one person on the show I give a shit about. So I will enjoy what I enjoy so I bought the fucking PPV and enjoyed it and even my wife liked it enough that she went online and bought me a couple t-shirts while I was watching and we rewatched the PPV a few times.
> 
> This happened not long ago where NXT put a nothing show and was really close in viewers and people freaked out. Fact is NXT can only beat AEW if the viewership is in the low to mid 700k's and the demo is in the mid .20's and that doesn't happen very often. Facts prove me right look at that December 18th show NXT needed a 0.27 which was very high for them to edge out a 0.25 by AEW which is one of their lower numbers.


Ya'll really love to beat that demo crap into the ground don't you? Nobody gave a crap about demos before AEW debuted, but now it's the only card ya'll have to play when explaining AEW's weak numbers. The truth is that unless The Rock, Roman Reigns, or Stone Cold show up AEW will never break into the millions again.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fair enough, still though Cody will wrestle on TV and Moxley is relegated to wrestling on the internet show.


Both have wrestled on Dark before - it's nothing new. 

People raise issues over nothing. Like damn, who cares?


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> Ya'll really love to beat that demo crap into the ground don't you? Nobody gave a crap about demos before AEW debuted, but now it's the only card ya'll have to play when explaining AEW's weak numbers. The truth is that unless The Rock, Roman Reigns, or Stone Cold show up AEW will never break into the millions again.


Aew broke a million last week for segment with Orange Cassidy.
Ratings ranked by demo! Aew ranked 27# nxt 45# more important than overall viewers.


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> *Aew broke a million last week for segment with Orange Cassidy*.
> Ratings ranked by demo! Aew ranked 27# nxt 45# more important than overall viewers.


No it did not


----------



## rbl85

sideon said:


> Ya'll really love to beat that demo crap into the ground don't you? Nobody gave a crap about demos before AEW debuted, but now it's the only card ya'll have to play when explaining AEW's weak numbers. The truth is that unless The Rock, Roman Reigns, or Stone Cold show up AEW will never break into the millions again.


There is a reason why the ranking is made in relation to the demo and not the viewership.

Let's say a show have 900k viewers and is ranked 7, an other have 1.5M viewers and is ranked 15.

In your opinion which show is going to "earn" the most money ?


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> No it did not











This Controversial AEW Star Drew Over 1 Million Viewers Last Week


Dynamite's peak viewership came from an interesting source.




whatculture.com


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> This Controversial AEW Star Drew Over 1 Million Viewers Last Week
> 
> 
> Dynamite's peak viewership came from an interesting source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whatculture.com


I thought you talked about 1M for the rating of a quarter, sorry.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Well I’m shocked AEW pulled this off with the riot plastered all over the top 10. I predicted the worst rating ever but I was happily wrong!


----------



## taker1986

Pippen94 said:


> This Controversial AEW Star Drew Over 1 Million Viewers Last Week
> 
> 
> Dynamite's peak viewership came from an interesting source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whatculture.com


I'm not a big fan of Orange Cassidy myself, but I guess we're going to have to get used to seeing him more often if he's that much of a draw.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RainmakerV2 said:


> And after FTRs debut and with Omega and Page defending the belt and with Jericho wrestling and with Cody defending.
> 
> 
> But ya know, da news.


You could literally research AEWs ratings on news heavy Wednesday’s and find out that he is telling the truth. You could actually do this faster than it took you to type out that “post.”


----------



## TKO Wrestling

fabi1982 said:


> Oh and „real housewifes“ even gained viewers, despite the news...also young demo etc.


great for them. History shows that AEWs fans crossover to the news at the drop of a dime.


----------



## taker1986

Both AEW and NXT did better than I thought. I expected about 600 for NXT and about 650 for AEW, maybe even less because of the news about the riots, plus it was a taped show and all the outcomes were pretty obvious. 

Does anyone know if next week's show is also taped? I came to the conclusion that it is since Jericho will be on commentary.


----------



## Pippen94

taker1986 said:


> I'm not a big fan of Orange Cassidy myself, but I guess we're going to have to get used to seeing him more often if he's that much of a draw.


May explain why best friends are wrestling for titles - get Orange Cassidy on both fyter feast shows


----------



## DaSlacker

Orange Cassidy is the perfect gimmick for this generation of wrestling viewer and the best thing they found from the indie acts WWE would never look at twice. It doesn't surprise me it's massively over at the minute. Though AEW are overexposing it too much, like in the match with Fenix and Casino Ladder Match. Seriously, let it bubble along until crowds return.


----------



## bdon

Great. Orange Cassidy going to become goddamn world champion.

Because...”ratings”.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Both have wrestled on Dark before - it's nothing new.
> 
> People raise issues over nothing. Like damn, who cares?


Well, look at it like this. How many times did you see the WCW World Heavyweight Champion appear on WCW Saturday Night when it was a B-Show? Never. It was a rarity to even see the United States Champion. Maybe once a month you'd get the TV Champion or the Cruiserweight Champion popping up on there for a title defence but again it was quite special to see the champions on Saturday Night or Worldwide. Hell, it was rare to even see the WCW Champion turn up on Thunder during WCW's prime.

WWE as well, how often did the WWE Champion turn up on Velocity for a match? How many times did Triple H turn up on Heat to wrestle someone with Evolution in tow? Hardly ever and I'd probably go with never.

It makes Moxley look bad that he's been relegated to the B-Show despite being the World Champion. It'd be like Ric Flair back in the day working in a 500 seat high school gym for a territory spot show. It just shouldn't happen.



DaSlacker said:


> Orange Cassidy is the perfect gimmick for this generation of wrestling viewer and the best thing they found from the indie acts WWE would never look at twice. It doesn't surprise me it's massively over at the minute. Though AEW are overexposing it too much, like in the match with Fenix and Casino Ladder Match. Seriously, let it bubble along until crowds return.


Sure, it might be very well received right now (Although I find it ridiculous) but what about a year from now where Cassidy is still sticking those hands in those pockets? Will it still be so amusing then? Doubt it.

Even if AEW doesn't overexpose it things like this has very short shelf lives.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well, look at it like this. How many times did you see the WCW World Heavyweight Champion appear on WCW Saturday Night when it was a B-Show? Never. It was a rarity to even see the United States Champion. Maybe once a month you'd get the TV Champion or the Cruiserweight Champion popping up on there for a title defence but again it was quite special to see the champions on Saturday Night or Worldwide. Hell, it was rare to even see the WCW Champion turn up on Thunder during WCW's prime.
> 
> WWE as well, how often did the WWE Champion turn up on Velocity for a match? How many times did Triple H turn up on Heat to wrestle someone with Evolution in tow? Hardly ever and I'd probably go with never.
> 
> It makes Moxley look bad that he's been relegated to the B-Show despite being the World Champion. It'd be like Ric Flair back in the day working in a 500 seat high school gym for a territory spot show. It just shouldn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, it might be very well received right now (Although I find it ridiculous) but what about a year from now where Cassidy is still sticking those hands in those pockets? Will it still be so amusing then? Doubt it.
> 
> Even if AEW doesn't overexpose it things like this has very short shelf lives.


I think Flair and Sting and Luger used to appear in squash matches on NWA/WCW Pro occasionally back in the 1980's and early 1990's. Generally it was WWE that protected their world champion and kept them away from TV matches and B shows. Bischoff went with that once Hogan arrived.

Rule of thumb is you get 18 months out of a gimmick if it's booked well. Nine months if booked badly.


----------



## bdon

Cody worked on Dark in tag action, both matches within the first month or two of the show premiering, i.e. when he wasn’t a champion.

John Moxley had NEVER done an episode of Dark, yet since becoming the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, he has now been on Dark TWICE.

Gee. I wonder why that is.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Cody worked on Dark in tag action, both matches within the first month or two of the show premiering, i.e. when he wasn’t a champion.
> 
> John Moxley had NEVER done an episode of Dark, yet since becoming the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, he has now been on Dark TWICE.
> 
> Gee. I wonder why that is.


Tell em' Bdon.

It's that damn politician Cody Rhodes!


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Tell em' Bdon.
> 
> It's that damn politician Cody Rhodes!


It baffles my mind that people can’t see the shit.


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> It baffles my mind that people can’t see the shit.


Well it's all one big egofest. Cody's at it, Bucks are living out their backyard wrestling days at the expense of a rich 30 something, Matt Hardy is getting to play filmmaker, Chris has his part time comedy gig.

The upside is MJF, Page, Baker, Guevvera and Allin have the best platform to develop their characters.

Moxley is neither white hot nor cooling off. He's just..


----------



## The Masked Avenger

So AEW wins again against a Takover go-home show with a pretty predictable card. Yet the status quo complainers still find ways to nit pick and bdon's obsession with Cody continues. LOL, this place is a clownshow. 

This is about par with all the covid empty arena shows nothing more, nothing less. Last week they got a big pop because it was a fallout show and Tyson was announced to be there. Next week may be a slightly larger number because the trend seems to go up and down week to week.

NXT will also probably be up because it's a fallout show with possibly several new champions. If AEW has another meh show I can see NXT with the higher overall but not higher demo like they have done a few times before.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know why wrestling fans feel this way.* I'm a big rugby fan* and a handful


ah! Another topic we can argue about!


----------



## thorn123

Disappointing to see numbers drop. Not the best show but still good and better than plenty of the rubbish on tv....high quality tv programming doesn’t necessarily correlate strongly with popularity....many examples of that over the years...also, I like Cody and like what he has done with AEW, same with the Bucks.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah! Another topic we can argue about!


League or Union?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> League or Union?


well, this’ll be the first fight then

Union all the way


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, this’ll be the first fight then
> 
> Union all the way


I'm only a League fan so there won't be any team on team banter but sport on sport? Definitely. My fellow countrymen call Rugby Union "Yawnion" although that might be because we suck at it...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm only a League fan so there won't be any team on team banter but sport on sport? Definitely. My fellow countrymen call Rugby Union "Yawnion" although that might be because we suck at it...


ha! You’re Aussie right?

union always gets the big stick in OZ until they win - ‘the 4th most popular sport’ - until they beat NZ, ENG or ZA 

but yah, unfortunately no team banter


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ha! You’re Aussie right?
> 
> union always gets the big stick in OZ until they win - ‘the 4th most popular sport’ - until they beat NZ, ENG or ZA
> 
> but yah, unfortunately no team banter


Yeah Australian. Everyone goes off Union because New Zealand beat us all the time and we can't let New Zealand be better than us at anything.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Really now? You and a few others are very much in the "AEW do no wrong" camp. I'm surprised to read this coming from you although am pleased to see you admit that they aren't perfect.


you can read my mind, can you? You have no bloody idea mate.

love that because I am not overly expressive with my opinion, I’m in this so called group, LMAO. Goofy shit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> you can read my mind, can you? You have no bloody idea mate.
> 
> love that because I am not overly expressive with my opinion, I’m in this so called group, LMAO. Goofy shit.


You're pretty expressive with your opinion when it's positive hence my surprise.

Wasn't a dig mate, no need to fight.


----------



## Pippen94

The Masked Avenger said:


> So AEW wins again against a Takover go-home show with a pretty predictable card. Yet the status quo complainers still find ways to nit pick and bdon's obsession with Cody continues. LOL, this place is a clownshow.
> 
> This is about par with all the covid empty arena shows nothing more, nothing less. Last week they got a big pop because it was a fallout show and Tyson was announced to be there. Next week may be a slightly larger number because the trend seems to go up and down week to week.
> 
> NXT will also probably be up because it's a fallout show with possibly several new champions. If AEW has another meh show I can see NXT with the higher overall but not higher demo like they have done a few times before.


Live shows do better for some reason even though there are no spoilers due to crowds being absent.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well, look at it like this. How many times did you see the WCW World Heavyweight Champion appear on WCW Saturday Night when it was a B-Show? Never. It was a rarity to even see the United States Champion. Maybe once a month you'd get the TV Champion or the Cruiserweight Champion popping up on there for a title defence but again it was quite special to see the champions on Saturday Night or Worldwide. Hell, it was rare to even see the WCW Champion turn up on Thunder during WCW's prime.
> 
> WWE as well, how often did the WWE Champion turn up on Velocity for a match? How many times did Triple H turn up on Heat to wrestle someone with Evolution in tow? Hardly ever and I'd probably go with never.
> 
> It makes Moxley look bad that he's been relegated to the B-Show despite being the World Champion. It'd be like Ric Flair back in the day working in a 500 seat high school gym for a territory spot show. It just shouldn't happen.


Or maybe you should stop relating everything to the past? 

"Relegated to the B-Show" 

Fucking hell, listen to yourself you clown.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fair enough, still though Cody will wrestle on TV and Moxley is relegated to wrestling on the internet show.


probably something to do with hyping dark for when it moves to hbo


----------



## rbl85

Mox appearing on Dark does not mean that you're not going to see him on Dynamite.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> Mox appearing on Dark does not mean that you're not going to see him on Dynamite.


Of course he's going to be on Dynamite.

Dark was recorded after the last Dynamite episode, by advertising Moxley on there, arguably their biggest draw, it should get some eyes on the product where people can see some of the up coming potential who could perhaps gain new fans. Anna Jay for example - obviously this may not work but who cares? I doubt Moxley gives a shit, he literally went and worked indies before Dynamite was a thing. Imagine being able to put on your resumé that you lost to AEW World Champion Jon Moxley.


----------



## rbl85

AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.

edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.

*Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
*Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
*Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
*Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
*Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
*Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
*Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
*Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).

Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.
> 
> edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.
> 
> *Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
> *Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
> *Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
> *Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
> *Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
> *Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
> *Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
> *Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).
> 
> Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
> Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
> Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


based on this and the fact it’s the fallout show from takeover I’m expecting a viewership win for nxt next week and a ratings win for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Will be interesting to see what Fyter Fest - IE> a match heavy, mini-ppv does in light of all this

maybe we’ll see the era of ‘story is only in shoulder content’ coming up

PS> not my preference (before everybody jumps down my throat)! But would not be shocked


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> great for them. History shows that AEWs fans crossover to the news at the drop of a dime.


And to baseball...and to finals of whatever shows...and to any excuse of a ratingsdrop


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Or maybe you should stop relating everything to the past?
> 
> "Relegated to the B-Show"
> 
> Fucking hell, listen to yourself you clown.


Okay, will stop relating things to the past. When is the last time the WWE Champion turned up on NXT for a match? Or better yet, how many times have any of the World Champions worked Superstars? I'm no WWE fan but I guarantee you it's very few.

They don't do that because it makes the champion look bad. The champion wrestling a match for YouTube when you have an international television deal makes him look bad. I don't know who they have in mind for Moxley but even if it's just some kid that he's going to beat in 5 minutes flat why not put that on TV? He's your World Champion and this week he's not wrestling on TNT he's wrestling on YouTube.

Even worse because this is his first match back after the Brodie Lee match so people would probably be interested.



rbl85 said:


> Mox appearing on Dark does not mean that you're not going to see him on Dynamite.


Of course not but shouldn't it be the other way around if they must have him on Dark? Wrestle on Dynamite, cut the promo for Dark?



rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.
> 
> edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.
> 
> *Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
> *Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
> *Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
> *Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
> *Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
> *Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
> *Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
> *Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).
> 
> Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
> Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
> Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


I don't think I've ever mentioned this before today but I studied radio and video production in school (Yes, poor me) and something we learned about a lot in both of those classes is ratings. At risk of being called a clown allow me to geek out about these numbers and perhaps even educate a little bit.

The numbers you're talking about are usually not indicative of what is good and what is bad. For example, at the end of quarter four that's the top of the hour so people are going to channel surf and see what is on unless you REALLY (And I mean REALLY) hook them. That's why they've got Jericho and Tyson in that segment but the drop of 61,000 isn't indicative that the audience doesn't like Jericho, Tyson, Cabana or something else. It simply means 61,000 people turned the channel meaning they weren't super hooked in. The exact same thing happened at NXT and the audience literally could've returned a minute or two later.

To AEW's credit those 60,000 (Or another 60,000) seem to return in Quarter 5 meaning just 1000 people either found something better to watch, went to NXT or stopped watching. That is a great sign.

Quarter 6 again is generally a time where people look for something new as well and the ratings seem to show that at this point 66,000 either went to NXT or found something better to watch. Hard to blame them really when the offer for that quarter was Big Swole Vs Nyla, comedy bullshit with Britt Baker and a Darby promo. Lose 37k in Q7 and again not really surprising after the bad taste in the peoples mouth after the bad women's offering. No popular shows start in Q7 (They already started) so the audience must have had the same feeling as us "haters" in the play by play thread.

Q8 looking at the wrestlers on offer you'd expect AEW to absolutely crush. It's Cody with his heavily hyped up title defence against a popular AEW midcard act in Jungle Boy taking on Fantasma and Maverick. I'm aware that Fantasma Vs Maverick was a tournament final of some sorts but Cody is a big enough star that he shouldn't have lost to that especially since it was pretty well hyped.

If you want to assess these ratings from a perspective where you're going to say "Oh the ratings show that they don't like vignettes or promos (Silly by the way because numbers don't show when they tuned out) one could argue that they all tuned out as soon as they saw Britt Baker's stupid comedy inspirational video and continued to tune out because of the bad women's match and the Cabana angle that followed. Britt Baker is what started the quarter 6 if I recall correctly.


----------



## imthegame19

Chip Chipperson said:


> Tell em' Bdon.
> 
> It's that damn politician Cody Rhodes!


Cody wrestled Joe Alonzo on Dark last month. Cody has wrestled twice on Dark and this will be only Moxley 2nd time. Every one on roster has been on Dark at least twice. Besides the new additions and Jericho. They won't do Jericho since he only can wrestle certain amount of matches per year in his contract. That is why he goes month without wrestling sometimes.


It could be a sign they don't plan on Moxley being at Wednesday show and not going to make him fly in so much with virus going on still. Keep in mind Moxley was one of those guys who stayed n Jacksonville with Renee from like May 5th though May 28th. Since they didn't want to be flying around so much. I could see Moxley winning squash match and Cage attacking him after. Then showing that footage on Dynamite and have Taz/Cage cut promo on Moxley. But will we will see .


Considering we know the Dynamite card already(with no Mox or Cage on it)minus the woman's match. I think there's a pretty good shot Moxley not on Dynamite live this week and Dark angle was done to set that up. Which is why they advertised it. Which they never promote Dark appearance on Dynamite really. So if some internet fans want to think it looks bad. Well who cares and these are different times with travel and virus out there.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, will stop relating things to the past. When is the last time the WWE Champion turned up on NXT for a match? Or better yet, how many times have any of the World Champions worked Superstars? I'm no WWE fan but I guarantee you it's very few.
> 
> They don't do that because it makes the champion look bad. The champion wrestling a match for YouTube when you have an international television deal makes him look bad. I don't know who they have in mind for Moxley but even if it's just some kid that he's going to beat in 5 minutes flat why not put that on TV? He's your World Champion and this week he's not wrestling on TNT he's wrestling on YouTube.
> 
> Even worse because this is his first match back after the Brodie Lee match so people would probably be interested.


Why does it make him look bad?


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.
> 
> edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.
> 
> *Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
> *Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
> *Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
> *Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
> *Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
> *Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
> *Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
> *Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).
> 
> Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
> Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
> Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


Not all promos and vignette lose viewers though. Moxley/Taz promo followed by Archer vignette and Hardy/Private Party did well. So it comes down to promo/vignette people wanna see and don't wanna see.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Not all promos and vignette lose viewers though. Moxley/Taz promo followed by Archer vignette and Hardy/Private Party did well. So it comes down to promo/vignette people wanna see and don't wanna see.


That's not what i said


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Why does it make him look bad?


Because you're the World Heavyweight Champion and this week you're not on TV you're instead wrestling on the internet. That gives off the impression that you're not good enough for TV but the likes of Jericho, Cody, Marq Quen, Best Friends, Colt Cabana etc etc are.

Might not be the case, the guy above explaining how Moxley might not be there this week might be 100% correct but that's how people see it. They see it as Moxley isn't good enough to be on TV so he's wrestling some noob on the internet show this week. 

The World Title is meant to mean that you're this hot shit wrestler that makes millions, driven around in limos, first class air tickets, 5 star hotels and are such a big deal that the promoter should be kissing your ass for you to appear on his TV show.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because you're the World Heavyweight Champion and this week you're not on TV you're instead wrestling on the internet. That gives off the impression that you're not good enough for TV but the likes of Jericho, Cody, Marq Quen, Best Friends, Colt Cabana etc etc are.
> 
> Might not be the case, the guy above explaining how Moxley might not be there this week might be 100% correct but that's how people see it. They see it as Moxley isn't good enough to be on TV so he's wrestling some noob on the internet show this week.
> 
> The World Title is meant to mean that you're this hot shit wrestler that makes millions, driven around in limos, first class air tickets, 5 star hotels and are such a big deal that the promoter should be kissing your ass for you to appear on his TV show.


Who said he isn't on TV?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Who said he isn't on TV?


Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Correction: This week you're not WRESTLING on TV you're instead wrestling on the internet.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
> 
> Correction: This week you're not WRESTLING on TV you're instead wrestling on the internet.


I'll certainly be tuning into Dark for the first time in a while.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> I'll certainly be tuning into Dark for the first time in a while.


Yeah, many people probably will. That's what AEW is excited about but they're thinking about a temporary financial gain due to having Moxley wrestle on the internet whilst I'm thinking long term financial gain by having the champion seem important and seeing him wrestle as important.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, many people probably will. That's what AEW is excited about but they're thinking about a temporary financial gain due to having Moxley wrestle on the internet whilst I'm thinking long term financial gain by having the champion seem important and seeing him wrestle as important.


You, and a select few, seem to be the only ones moaning about it.

Which to be honest doesn't surprise me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, will stop relating things to the past. When is the last time the WWE Champion turned up on NXT for a match? Or better yet, how many times have any of the World Champions worked Superstars? I'm no WWE fan but I guarantee you it's very few.


The NJPW champ sometimes works the 6-man lower card tag match

happened many times

wasn’t there an NXT invasion recently where the champs worked all the shows?


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.
> 
> edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.
> 
> *Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
> *Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
> *Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
> *Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
> *Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
> *Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
> *Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
> *Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).
> 
> Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
> Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
> Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


Looks like people liked what they were watching for the most part. As expected, the Jericho/Cabana stuff lost viewers and no one cares for the women's stuff unless it involves Britt Baker.

And Mox is clearly being used on Dark to gain more eyes on the lower talent. Nothing to dissect there. Mox is your biggest draw and its a good move.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The NJPW champ sometimes works the 6-man lower card tag match
> 
> happened many times
> 
> wasn’t there an NXT invasion recently where the champs worked all the shows?


Yeah Japan is different though. They are still doing territory style tours and shows and that will probably never change.

Back in the day if it was a smaller town or a one off spot show the big stars would often work the match before intermission in a six man tag and go home immediately after. Japan does the same deal saving the big time championship matches for big arena shows whilst the halls and gyms feature the champion in a six or eight man tag.

I guarantee they wouldn't be relegating their champions to working a dojo show (Their equivalent) though.

In regards to the NXT invasion I'm not sure. Someone more well versed in WWE than me can let us know but it won't really change my opinion that the World Champ shouldn't be fucking around with the likes of Joey Janela, Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss on the non televised show.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 740K viewers that means that overall in 2 hours they only lost 10K viewers while NXT opened with 790K viewers.
> 
> edit : i'm going to give you the quarters number for AEW and NXT.
> 
> *Q1 AEW* : Omega/Page vs Havoc/Sabian = 740K / *Q1 NXT* :Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae, the post match brawl, and Yim & Keith Lee vs. LeRae & Johnny Gargano.=790K
> *Q2 AEW* : end of tag match +Spears vignette+ Brian Cage = 764K (gain of 24K) / *Q2 NXT* :the end of tag match+Maverick vignette+ build for Cole vs. Velveteen Dream = 721K (loss of 69K)
> *Q3 AEW* : Taz & Jon Moxley promos+Lance Archer vignette+Matt Hardy meets Private Party = 774k (gain 10k) / *Q3 NXT* :Tony Nese vs. Isaiah Scott =708k (loss of13k)
> *Q4 AEW* : Jericho/Tyson vignette+beginning of Jericho vs.Cabana = 713K (loss of 61K) / *Q4 NXT* :Tyler Breeze & Fandango vs. Roderick Strong & Bobby Fish vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch = 642K (loss of 66K)
> *Q5 AEW* : end of Jericho vs.Cabana +Jericho promo+Britt Baker training video = 773K (gain of 60K) / *Q5 NXT* :end of the tag match, the confrontation with Breeze & Fandango, Imperium and Saurav & Rinku, and Santana Garrett vs. Aliyah = 709K (gain of 67k)
> *Q6 AEW* : Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole+post-match Swole & Baker+Darby Allin interview = 707k (loss of 66K) / *Q6 NXT* : video package with Charlotte Flair, Io Shirai and Rhea Ripley = 706K (loss of 3k)
> *Q7 AEW* : TR interview+post interview+build for next Week+Cabana interview = 670k (loss of 37k)/ *Q7 NXT*: Cameron Grimes vs. Bronson Reed and the beginning of Fantasma vs. Maverick = 722K (gain of 16K)
> *Q8 AEW* : Cody vs Jungle boy = 701K (gain of 31k) / *Q8 NXT* : Fantasma vs. Maveric.= 721K (loss of 1K).
> 
> Once again the quarters in which AEW lose the most viewers are always the one with vignette or promo package…..
> Q6 and Q7 "killed" AEW.
> Also a recurring issue is that the lead in for AEW (the show before AEW) is doing way less viewers than the lead in show of NXT


I don’t know if I speak for everyone, but I really appreciate these weekly numbers. Wish I’d been saving them.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Cody wrestled Joe Alonzo on Dark last month. Cody has wrestled twice on Dark and this will be only Moxley 2nd time. Every one on roster has been on Dark at least twice. Besides the new additions and Jericho. They won't do Jericho since he only can wrestle certain amount of matches per year in his contract. That is why he goes month without wrestling sometimes.
> 
> 
> It could be a sign they don't plan on Moxley being at Wednesday show and not going to make him fly in so much with virus going on still. Keep in mind Moxley was one of those guys who stayed n Jacksonville with Renee from like May 5th though May 28th. Since they didn't want to be flying around so much. *I could see Moxley winning squash match and Cage attacking him after. Then showing that footage on Dynamite and have Taz/Cage cut promo on Moxley. But will we will see .*
> 
> 
> Considering we know the Dynamite card already(with no Mox or Cage on it)minus the woman's match. I think there's a pretty good shot Moxley not on Dynamite live this week and Dark angle was done to set that up. Which is why they advertised it. Which they never promote Dark appearance on Dynamite really. So if some internet fans want to think it looks bad. Well who cares and these are different times with travel and virus out there.


I could definitely see this happening, man!!

Oh. Wait. That’s the exact same angle they just used for Moxley vs Hager. Glad to see Cody putting all that extra time, effort, and attention to detail on his company’s World Heavyweight Champion.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Looks like people liked what they were watching for the most part. As expected, the Jericho/Cabana stuff lost viewers and no one cares for the women's stuff unless it involves Britt Baker.
> 
> And Mox is clearly being used on Dark to gain more eyes on the lower talent. Nothing to dissect there. Mox is your biggest draw and its a good move.


The segment with the end of the match did really well.

It's complicated to know what worked and what didn't when there is multiple things happening in a quarter (you also have to think about the commercials).

It's easier when a match or a promo last for all the quarter


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah Japan is different though. They are still doing territory style tours and shows and that will probably never change.
> 
> Back in the day if it was a smaller town or a one off spot show the big stars would often work the match before intermission in a six man tag and go home immediately after. Japan does the same deal saving the big time championship matches for big arena shows whilst the halls and gyms feature the champion in a six or eight man tag.
> 
> I guarantee they wouldn't be relegating their champions to working a dojo show (Their equivalent) though.
> 
> In regards to the NXT invasion I'm not sure. Someone more well versed in WWE than me can let us know but it won't really change my opinion that the World Champ shouldn't be fucking around with the likes of Joey Janela, Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss on the non televised show.


NJPWs equivalent is not a Dojo show

it is exactly what I’ve said - they have 5 night tours / sometimes that champ works night 2 in a 6-man tag, knowing full well at some point he will main event again

This is what this is - and NJPW is the height of credibility. Whatever they do, should be 100% acceptable in the wrestling world


----------



## Danielallen1410

“Aew does nothing different from wwe” 

“When was the last time a wwe champion appeared on a smaller show” 


wrestling fans. Pathetic.


----------



## bdon

I don’t mind Moxley defending his title there, but I do mind it when the TNT title won’t be seeing defenses on there. It’s just another way of Cody’s goddamn ego getting in the way of the company.

And here is the part where y’all say, “It’s the TNT championship, so of course it will be defended only on the main channel.” To which I respond, “except when it’s a PPV, huh?”

Cody is undermining the company’s main goddamn title. POS.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I don’t mind Moxley defending his title there, but I do mind it when the TNT title won’t be seeing defenses on there. It’s just another way of Cody’s goddamn ego getting in the way of the company.
> 
> And here is the part where y’all say, “It’s the TNT championship, so of course it will be defended only on the main channel.” To which I respond, “except when it’s a PPV, huh?”
> 
> Cody is undermining the company’s main goddamn title. POS.


First of all i Don't think the dark match is for the belt.

Secondly on the wrestling observer, Alvarez said that AEW Dark is likely coming to TNT, that's why Moxley is appearing.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> “Aew does nothing different from wwe”
> 
> “When was the last time a wwe champion appeared on a smaller show”
> 
> 
> wrestling fans. Pathetic.


Are you really pretending Moxley having matches on the equivalent of Velocity is a good thing lol


----------



## rbl85

I think they just want to make Dark feel like a bigger deal before appearing on TNT.


----------



## AEWMoxley

So Dark is likely going to air on TNT at some point? Interesting. I wonder what day they'll choose to air. I assume it will be unopposed by any WWE show.

Although adding another show with such a thin roster is a bit weird.


----------



## El Hammerstone

If they're going to air Dark on TNT, they will really need to fix that undercard.


----------



## taker1986

AEWMoxley said:


> So Dark is likely going to air on TNT at some point? Interesting. I wonder what day they'll choose to air. I assume it will be unopposed by any WWE show.
> 
> Although adding another show with such a thin roster is a bit weird.


Tuesday I presume, but yeah I think it's a bit too early to add a 2nd show, unless they're about to sign Rusev, EC3, Ryder, good brothers, Rowan, Jeff Hardy and Adam cole in the next few months.


----------



## rbl85

taker1986 said:


> Tuesday I presume, but yeah I think it's a bit too early to add a 2nd show, unless they're about to sign Rusev, EC3, Ryder, good brothers, Rowan, Jeff Hardy and Adam cole in the next few months.


I Don't think it's AEW choice.


----------



## taker1986

rbl85 said:


> I Don't think it's AEW choice.


Maybe, do we know if this is going to be a 1 hour or 2 hour show?


----------



## TD Stinger

I haven’t watched Dark in months outside of the occasional match or segment. And this was even before the virus came in. So if Dark eventually does come to TV, it would need to revamped a bit and not just feel like the show where all the lower to mid card guys to squash unknowns or have small stories (like QT and the Bunny).


----------



## rbl85

taker1986 said:


> Maybe, do we know if this is going to be a 1 hour or 2 hour show?


For the moment it's still a rumor


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> This is true. They have too many of these nothing shows where they've got nothing but meaningless matches. I get that they have a lot of time between PPVs, but you can easily work around that. For example, if you're going to do Moxley vs MJF at All Out (which would be the right decision) then have MJF get involved in the title picture now. He's the #1 ranked singles guy and he should be cutting promos on the upcoming Moxley vs Cage match, talking about his interest in the outcome and how he intends to challenge the winner at All Out.
> 
> You can do this with other matches too. You can already start to lay some of the groundwork for All Out.
> 
> As of now, all we are getting is a half assed build to Fyter Fest, where probably nothing noteworthy will happen. In other words, it's all filler until July.


I agree, especially the first half of the post PPV schedule. AEW would be wise to double it to 8 PPVs, 6 weeks apart.


----------



## imthegame19

taker1986 said:


> Tuesday I presume, but yeah I think it's a bit too early to add a 2nd show, unless they're about to sign Rusev, EC3, Ryder, good brothers, Rowan, Jeff Hardy and Adam cole in the next few months.


It's only 1 hour show. The roster is already packed as is. They definetly have deep enough roster to add another hour show. Look at this past weeks show. You had no room for Archer, Lee, MJF/Wardlow, Darby or Matt Hardy, Young Bucks barely.


They combined on the show probably less then 5 minutes. Not to mention you don't even have Pac or Lucha Bros right now. While Hager often only gets used in tags or Jericho bodyguard. So there's plenty of talent for 2nd one hour show and they will likely add at least 1 or 2 of those guys cut by WWE.


If anything if they don't add another show they need to make roster cuts. Because right now roster is too big for one two hour show. Especially if you want to give single opportunities to guys like Jungle Boy or Scorpio Sky.


Keep in mind two hour show usually revolves around 8-10 singles guys with 5-7 midcard/job guys and 4 or 5 tag teams. Right now AEW has like 15 singles guys(Moxley,Jericho, Cody,Omega, Cage,Page, MJF, Archer, Lee,Pac, Hardy, Hager, Darby, Guevara,Wardlow) and 8 midcard job guys(Dustin, Spears, Orange Cassidy, Sabian, Cabana, Daniels, Janela,Havoc) and like 8 or 9 tag teams(not counting Omega/Page, Dustin/QT or Sabian/Havoc). Compare that to Smackdown roster now.



They got Braun, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Bray Wyatt, AJ, Jeff Hardy, Corbin, Miz, Morrison, Nakamura and use Otis, Ziggler, Elias, Cesaro, Shorty G, Drew Gulak as midcard/job guys. While they only have like three tag teams right now with Usos hurt. So AEW can easily have another show featuring tag and two singles feuds every week. They shouldn't do separate brand. But just make it basically third hour of Dynamite but call it Dark or whatever and on different tonight. So audiences don't get burned out watching 3 hours straight every week like with Raw.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> NJPWs equivalent is not a Dojo show
> 
> it is exactly what I’ve said - they have 5 night tours / sometimes that champ works night 2 in a 6-man tag, knowing full well at some point he will main event again
> 
> This is what this is - and NJPW is the height of credibility. Whatever they do, should be 100% acceptable in the wrestling world


They're still main shows though. If AEW had House Shows nobody would really care if he worked tags in the small towns because that's legitimately been a thing for the past 50 years in wrestling. Nobody would care if Moxley worked a match in the middle of Dynamite (Like he did about a month ago) either but him going off and working the B-Show really is the equivalent of him working a Dojo show (If he was in Japan) or a show like Heat, Superstars or Velocity in the USA.

Look at it like this, Moxley went into last PPV with his story being 3/3 in terms of importance on the show, he semi main evented despite the fact his World Title was on the line, he has only main evented Dynamite once since winning the belt, his first match since winning the belt was on Dark and now he's back there. That tells people that your World Champion isn't all that important...


----------



## El Hammerstone

Danielallen1410 said:


> “Aew does nothing different from wwe”
> 
> “When was the last time a wwe champion appeared on a smaller show”
> 
> 
> wrestling fans. Pathetic.


Nice reach.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> They're still main shows though. If AEW had House Shows nobody would really care if he worked tags in the small towns because that's legitimately been a thing for the past 50 years in wrestling. Nobody would care if Moxley worked a match in the middle of Dynamite (Like he did about a month ago) either but him going off and working the B-Show really is the equivalent of him working a Dojo show (If he was in Japan) or a show like Heat, Superstars or Velocity in the USA.
> 
> Look at it like this, Moxley went into last PPV with his story being 3/3 in terms of importance on the show, he semi main evented despite the fact his World Title was on the line, he has only main evented Dynamite once since winning the belt, his first match since winning the belt was on Dark and now he's back there. That tells people that your World Champion isn't all that important...


It isn’t a dig at Moxley either. It’s clear as day that Jericho and Cody each believe this is THEIR show. Jericho even went as far to break kayfabe in the first promo after Revolution when he said, “I don’t need some damn belt to know I’m LeChampion”.

Title or no, Jericho and Cody are going to have their shit featured as the number one story. Hell, this company is supposed to be all about tag team wrestling, yet Cody’s simple blood feud with pride and ego on the line had more build and air time than the brewing blood feud between Bucks and Page. And that match held 3 of the 4 EVPs in it!!

Cody and Jericho are in it for themselves.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> They're still main shows though. If AEW had House Shows nobody would really care if he worked tags in the small towns because that's legitimately been a thing for the past 50 years in wrestling. Nobody would care if Moxley worked a match in the middle of Dynamite (Like he did about a month ago) either but him going off and working the B-Show really is the equivalent of him working a Dojo show (If he was in Japan) or a show like Heat, Superstars or Velocity in the USA.
> 
> Look at it like this, Moxley went into last PPV with his story being 3/3 in terms of importance on the show, he semi main evented despite the fact his World Title was on the line, he has only main evented Dynamite once since winning the belt, his first match since winning the belt was on Dark and now he's back there. That tells people that your World Champion isn't all that important...


Are you trying to make the argument that the NJPW champ, fighting in the undercard in a 6-man tag, sometimes featuring a Young Lion or comedy wrestling if guys like Yano is involved is somehow more prestigious or credible than the AEW champ wrestling on DARK - which is just as promoted and which featured other stars like Kenny and Cody too?

At the same time, Mox is also their biggest Youtube draw, so it is a great way to get more eyes

you lads are reaching with this whole argument, doing the most interesting sort of gymnastics to prove some sort of point which doesn‘t exist. The NJPW / AEW argument I am making is solid.

NJPW champ on night 2 is to get you to watch night 5 / Mox on DARK on a Tuesday is to get you to watch Wednesday


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Are you trying to make the argument that the NJPW champ, fighting in the undercard in a 6-man tag, sometimes featuring a Young Lion or comedy wrestling if guys like Yano is involved is somehow more prestigious or credible than the AEW champ wrestling on DARK - which is just as promoted and which featured other stars like Kenny and Cody too?
> 
> At the same time, Mox is also their biggest Youtube draw, so it is a great way to get more eyes
> 
> you lads are reaching with this whole argument, doing the most interesting sort of gymnastics to prove some sort of point which doesn‘t exist. The NJPW / AEW argument I am making is solid.
> 
> NJPW champ on night 2 is to get you to watch night 5 / Mox on DARK on a Tuesday is to get you to watch Wednesday


No, I'm trying to say that the IWGP Champion fighting in the undercard on a house show isn't promoted to anyone. The NJPW TV audience don't know that he's doing that unless they're in the arena or scouring the internet for results.

Dark is the jobber show lets be real about it. It would be like Okada working a dojo show or a little Japanese micro indy and NJPW promoting it as a good thing.


----------



## Pippen94

Aew did good numbers in 18-34 demo this week








411MANIA | Tony Khan Asks AEW Fans To Spread Their Love of Wrestling, Says This Week’s Dynamite Did Highest 18-34 Rating In Months


Tony Khan Asks AEW Fans To Spread Their Love of Wrestling, Says This Week's Dynamite Did Highest 18-34 Rating In Months




411mania.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *No, I'm trying to say that the IWGP Champion fighting in the undercard on a house show isn't promoted to anyone. *The NJPW TV audience don't know that he's doing that unless they're in the arena or scouring the internet for results.
> 
> Dark is the jobber show lets be real about it. It would be like Okada working a dojo show or a little Japanese micro indy and NJPW promoting it as a good thing.


Sorry mate, wrong again - have you watched NJPW? (I’m sure you have)

It is usually 5 night tours, and it is all ‘broadcasted’ the same way, night 1 to 5 - on their app for international viewers. So, ’night 2’ isn’t some unknown entity that nobody sees - everybody watches night two

at the same time, the shows are promoted as well, they always throw up graphics for the upcoming shows on the prior nights + on the nights + on their socials and they show the ‘after match’ interviews on Youtube - all with these undercard matches the champ was involved in

You’re just making the ‘Dojo’ comparison because you know I’m right and you don’t want to admit it - show me the weekly Dojo shows that NJPW puts on for mass broadcast, online, on their app or anywhere else With any sort of frequency

now, I like a good debate as much as the next guy, unless it just becomes a circle of ‘i have to prove I’m right so I’ll make the point to just make the point’ - but I think this one is over, no?


----------



## bdon

And that’s been the NJPW way. It’s part of the culture. American wrestling is not treated that way. Jericho never showed his face or lent his voice to Dark. Cody will he hiding behind this “open challenge” storyline as reason enough that he can’t be on the YouTube show, but by God, Jon Moxley can lower himself, for a second time since becoming champion, to doing his second Dark episode.

Simple question for you, @LifeInCattleClass : why did Moxley not wrestle on Dark prior to winning the World Heavyweight Championship?


----------



## Cult03

I have to wonder, how would you guys perceive Drew McIntyre or Lesnar if they showed up on Superstars? Would you think it was ridiculous? Honest answers only, please.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sorry mate, wrong again - have you watched NJPW? (I’m sure you have)
> 
> It is usually 5 night tours, and it is all ‘broadcasted’ the same way, night 1 to 5 - on their app for international viewers. So, ’night 2’ isn’t some unknown entity that nobody sees - everybody watches night two
> 
> at the same time, the shows are promoted as well, they always throw up graphics for the upcoming shows on the prior nights + on the nights + on their socials and they show the ‘after match’ interviews on Youtube - all with these undercard matches the champ was involved in
> 
> You’re just making the ‘Dojo’ comparison because you know I’m right and you don’t want to admit it - show me the weekly Dojo shows that NJPW puts on for mass broadcast, online, on their app or anywhere else With any sort of frequency
> 
> now, I like a good debate as much as the next guy, unless it just becomes a circle of ‘i have to prove I’m right so I’ll make the point to just make the point’ - but I think this one is over, no?


All the big stars are on the NJPW house shows though. You don't have one group of main event guys heading to Korakuen Hall for a big show whilst Okada works the main events of the smaller shows against midcard guys that weren't good enough to get on the big show.

That's how it looks. Cody and the rest of the guys are good enough for TV but Moxley is relegated to wrestling online this week like there is no room for him or he's unimportant enough that he doesn't need to be on TV.



Cult03 said:


> I have to wonder, how would you guys perceive Drew McIntyre or Lesnar if they showed up on Superstars? Would you think it was ridiculous? Honest answers only, please.


Exactly this. Would be shit on.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> I think they just want to make Dark feel like a bigger deal before appearing on TNT.


The AEW haters that don't get it are outing themselves. Can finally filter them out. 
If Dark is getting promoted before they become a thing, they should have main eventers appear on it, I'm sure Cody will defend his title there as well. When Main Event and Superstars started, they also put main eventers there on the first few shows.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> The AEW haters that don't get it are outing themselves. Can finally filter them out.
> If Dark is getting promoted before they become a thing, they should have main eventers appear on it, I'm sure Cody will defend his title there as well. When Main Event and Superstars started, they also put main eventers there on the first few shows.


They look like idiots. They will find something new to complain about when the previous things they complained about lose significance or stop being an issue. Now it’s about Moxley on DARK; when it’s clear that they want people to watch dark. Simple marketing or promotion tactics that theyre now complaining about, lol.


----------



## bdon

Why wasn’t Moxley on Dark before?


----------



## TD Stinger

I keep hearing this is Mox’s first appearance on AEW Dark. Wasn’t this on Dark?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TD Stinger said:


> I keep hearing this is Mox’s first appearance on AEW Dark. Wasn’t this on Dark?


I am legitimately laughing at the fact that Faboo Andre a guy who looks about 5'6 and fresh out of high school had a match with the World Heavyweight Champion doing a "I'm so manly" gimmick with his feminine gear. Fuck sake, who books this bullshit?

In regards to Mox's first appearance on Dark I think Bdon means Moxley never worked Dark until he became World Champion.

I still can't get over that Moxley wrestled this guy who half the forum could probably beat up and gave him offence...

Plus the World Heavyweight Champion working as a cameraman moments before a match...because he just doesn't seem unimportant enough wrestling this complete and utter goober.


----------



## fabi1982

I feel bad for Moxley, he came to AEW to be treated better, but he just get the same run as with WWE, overshadowed by people who shouldnt overshadow him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> All the big stars are on the NJPW house shows though. You don't have one group of main event guys heading to Korakuen Hall for a big show whilst Okada works the main events of the smaller shows against midcard guys that weren't good enough to get on the big show.
> 
> That's how it looks. Cody and the rest of the guys are good enough for TV but Moxley is relegated to wrestling online this week like there is no room for him or he's unimportant enough that he doesn't need to be on TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly this. Would be shit on.


oh brother, you‘re spinning like a top there Chip

how bout this - the coming week, predictions

mox will be on Dark (which if any of you have paid any f’kn attention is actually a low key tribute match for Danny Havoc, with one of his other mates - and AEW backstage crew - from CZW, and also friend of Danny Havoc) - but they can’t put that on the main show as there is no story for it, i digress

Cody will open Dynamite with the TNT match (i guess that will now be wrong too)

and Mox will further his feud either in the main event or at the least in 1 of the last two segments of the show

which will be 4 shows, equal very much to the f’kn 5 nights in NJPW comparison i keep making - but go ahead, keep telling me more about Dojo matches 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> Are you really pretending Moxley having matches on the equivalent of Velocity is a good thing lol


No, I’m just saying it’s not a bad thing either, it’s just a thing. And it’s clearly to get more people to watch dark before it moves to tnt.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

H


bdon said:


> Why wasn’t Moxley on Dark before?


have you seen the dark views? They are consistently reducing week by week. Nobody is watching them. Less money for AEW


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> No, I’m just saying it’s not a bad thing either, it’s just a thing. And it’s clearly to get more people to watch dark before it moves to tnt.


You're not wrong there as far as to get views. But it's always going to feel like demotion giving Dark is clearly the lesser show.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> H
> have you seen the dark views? They are consistently reducing week by week. Nobody is watching them. Less money for AEW


They weren’t setting the world on fire from Day 1. They have been bleeding views.

Why is it that Moxley didn’t work Dark until he became champion?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> They weren’t setting the world on fire from Day 1. They have been bleeding views.
> 
> Why is it that Moxley didn’t work Dark until he became champion?


Because the ratings have been dropping, lol. Maybe they are worried so they’ve had their top talent on dark recently. 
Because the rona meant they were working on a more limited roster, lol.


----------



## bdon

So, with a limited roster, they had their world champion work the YouTube show. Makes sense.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> So, with a limited roster, they had their world champion work the YouTube show. Makes sense.


Yeah of course, because maybe the other guys were overworked, doing several matches over one night?
There could be many reasons. They’ve had a lot of top talent on Dark recently, including your boyfriend Cody.
Stop being a Disney character.
And by that I mean a Goofy.


----------



## bdon

So, you think booking your world champion for the YouTube show was a better decision than booking him for your main show that was bleeding viewers as well, going from 900k+ down into the 650k’s?

Yeah. Real fucking goofy.


----------



## bdon

“I always told Vince I wanted to give the IC prestige and make it as important as the World title, but he wanted to view it as ‘midcard’ championship.”

He’s literally acting out his words before your eyes. Goofy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> So, you think booking your world champion for the YouTube show was a better decision than booking him for your main show that was bleeding viewers as well, going from 900k+ down into the 650k’s?
> 
> Yeah. Real fucking goofy.


I never said it was a good idea


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

Putting Moxley on Dark vs. some plug isn't going to change much viewers wise IMO.

I hope they do well though.


----------



## validreasoning

fabi1982 said:


> I feel bad for Moxley, he came to AEW to be treated better, but he just get the same run as with WWE, overshadowed by people who shouldnt overshadow him.


Something obviously is an issue

I am watching the old Shield promos from late 12/early 13 and it's clear Ambrose is the guy getting the biggest push of the three. They are hotter on him than Reigns or Rollins. So something happened there that soured them on him somewhere along the line

Now in AEW he is wrestling in midcard and on prelim show despite being world champion. That's two promotions who both clearly shifted their focus away from promotion of him as top guy.

Maybe the rumors of him being ultra lazy backstage are true. You can still show up for work everyday and be considered lazy.


----------



## fabi1982

validreasoning said:


> Something obviously is an issue
> 
> I am watching the old Shield promos from late 12/early 13 and it's clear Ambrose is the guy getting the biggest push of the three. They are hotter on him than Reigns or Rollins. So something happened there that soured them on him somewhere along the line
> 
> Now in AEW he wrestling in midcard and on prelim show despite being world champion.
> 
> Maybe the rumors of him being ultra lazy backstage are true. You can still show up for work everyday and be considered lazy.


Somethings must be wrong. From flipping the finger with Cody after he showed up at DON to now this. Its either him being lazy or AEW doesnt see so much in him, which shouldnt be the case as their world champion.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I find with Moxley that whilst he is good he's not as good as many people say he is. Certainly worthy as a World Champion and certainly better than the B-Show but I've seen some say he's one of the best in the world and I just don't see it.


----------



## validreasoning

In this era if you do comedy unless you are Chris Jericho or Sandow when he was Miz's body double fans view you as either being goofy or childish because they see the UFC guys being all serious so expect pro wrestling to follow

For Mox he announced himself to national audience as this cool no nonsense guy and then did stupid comedy stuff after leaving shield and has done comedy since leaving WWE

I think this version is what most people thought they would get as a singles guy but we never got that. 1 minute mark


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

validreasoning said:


> In this era if you do comedy unless you are Chris Jericho or Sandow when he was Miz's body double fans view you as either being goofy or childish because they see the UFC guys being all serious so expect pro wrestling to follow
> 
> For Mox he announced himself to national audience as this cool no nonsense guy and then did stupid comedy stuff after leaving shield and has done comedy since leaving WWE
> 
> I think this version is what most people thought they would get as a singles guy but we never got that. 1 minute mark


what comedy stuff has he done since leaving WWE? Wtf


----------



## bdon

“All you had to do was ask..?”

“And call your grandmothers!!!”

“Oh, Chris. I don’t want to join your group. It’s stupid. I lied.” Ha. Ha. Ha.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> what comedy stuff has he done since leaving WWE? Wtf


"One more thing, Chris. I lied. I don't want to join the Inner Circle. It's a stupid group."


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> “All you had to do was ask..?”
> 
> “And call your grandmothers!!!”
> 
> “Oh, Chris. I don’t want to join your group. It’s stupid. I lied.” Ha. Ha. Ha.


do you remember the attitude era

Arguments between two main eventers about pie and strudel

singing to Vince McMahon with a tiny cowboy hat on

Beef with a tiny man dressed as a green superhero

“Sweet cream on an ice cream sammich” - who did you think said this?

I’d go on but comedy is litttered in these top guys careers.

At this point bdon, I think you’re just trolling. have a nice day.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> do you remember the attitude era
> 
> Arguments between two main eventers about pie and strudel
> 
> singing to Vince McMahon with a tiny cowboy hat on
> 
> Beef with a tiny man dressed as a green superhero
> 
> “Sweet cream on an ice cream sammich” - who did you think said this?
> 
> I’d go on but comedy is litttered in these top guys careers.
> 
> At this point bdon, I think you’re just trolling. have a nice day.


Have I not made it ABUNDANTLY clear at this point how much I fucking hated Attitude Era shenanigans?


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> Have I not made it ABUNDANTLY clear at this point how much I fucking hated Attitude Era shenanigans?


They don't listen bro, hence why Chip is asked after every single show why he watches despite explaining it every week.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> do you remember the attitude era
> 
> Arguments between two main eventers about pie and strudel
> 
> singing to Vince McMahon with a tiny cowboy hat on
> 
> Beef with a tiny man dressed as a green superhero
> 
> “Sweet cream on an ice cream sammich” - who did you think said this?
> 
> I’d go on but comedy is litttered in these top guys careers.
> 
> At this point bdon, I think you’re just trolling. have a nice day.


Most of these weren't really Attitude era if you consider it dead the day Austin shook Vince McMahon's hand. Most of these are 2001/2002, are they not? Not exactly sterling memories of that particular company. And there is a big difference in a giant promotion appealing to 9 million people in the United States at the height of "The Crude Movement," throwing out silly catchphrases and one-liners. There were enough people to repeat them and print them on a t-shirt to put them into circulation. But let's not pretend that wrestling was cool because of "roody poo." That getting over was a byproduct. Wrestling became cool because the cultural zeitgeist caught on to its irreverence and people gravitated to stars like Steve Austin and The Rock on one side, and Goldberg and Sting on the other. That doesn't mean being a poor facsimile of an Attitude era wrestler is going to make you as popular as that particular star in that particular time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

How is it that somehow AEW has become home for totally new school fans and completely old school 70s, 80s, 90s pre-attitude era fans

it is a very weird amalgamation

gonna be even more weird with FTR representing the old school style

i love it - the buffet concept is real


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How is it that somehow AEW has become home for totally new school fans and completely old school 70s, 80s, 90s pre-attitude era fans
> 
> it is a very weird amalgamation
> 
> gonna be even more weird with FTR representing the old school style
> 
> i love it - the buffet concept is real


im not the biggest fan of buffets, but AEW manage to do it very well. 

I’m really excited to see what FTR bring to the table.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How is it that somehow AEW has become home for totally new school fans and completely old school 70s, 80s, 90s pre-attitude era fans
> 
> it is a very weird amalgamation
> 
> gonna be even more weird with FTR representing the old school style
> 
> i love it - the buffet concept is real


Wait, what is this post? Can you please clarify? 

730k people or so watched Dynamite this week. That's not really a fan for old school fans, haha. Most of the old school fans seem to reject the silly presentation of the "new school" stuff.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Most of these weren't really Attitude era if you consider it dead the day Austin shook Vince McMahon's hand. Most of these are 2001/2002, are they not? Not exactly sterling memories of that particular company. And there is a big difference in a giant promotion appealing to 9 million people in the United States at the height of "The Crude Movement," throwing out silly catchphrases and one-liners. There were enough people to repeat them and print them on a t-shirt to put them into circulation. But let's not pretend that wrestling was cool because of "roody poo." That getting over was a byproduct. Wrestling became cool because the cultural zeitgeist caught on to its irreverence and people gravitated to stars like Steve Austin and The Rock on one side, and Goldberg and Sting on the other. That doesn't mean being a poor facsimile of an Attitude era wrestler is going to make you as popular as that particular star in that particular time.


Nobody said that, duh


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dude, is Garty lurking around?

hiya Garty!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

How true is this tweet - no wonder young people like OC

also out of interest OC‘s video of lthis week already has 1m views in 2 days - which is a quick riser for them


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269379042555428866
ps> Tyson / Jericho has 3.4m views, making it into their top 5


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How true is this tweet - no wonder young people like OC
> 
> also out of interest OC‘s video of lthis week already has 1m views in 2 days - which is a quick riser for them
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269379042555428866
> ps> Tyson / Jericho has 3.4m views, making it into their top 5


Man is a draw. No wonder why he’s beefing with the IC right now. AEW listening to the fans 👏


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dude, is Garty lurking around?
> 
> hiya Garty!


C'mon man! Didn't you read my signature? In the flesh. Live. 100%


----------



## The Wood

Ha, if only wrestling were an anime and the comparison holds up. Saitama is actually really high strung and cares about what people think of him. He tries to win fights. Saitama wouldn't stand on a ladder and expect it to work. He'd jump up to the prize from the ground and win the match in a couple of seconds. 

What a terrible, terribly analogy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> C'mon man! Didn't you read my signature? In the flesh. Live. 100%


Haha! Welcome, welcome - you were missed


----------



## taker1986

AEW YouTube videos have been doing very well recently. OC/Jericho getting a million views in 2 days. Jericho/Tyson promo is the 2nd most viewed wrestling video out of Raw, SD and Dynamite in the last month only behind the Becky announcement. 

This shows that people worldwide are starting to take notice of AEW.


----------



## Peerless

validreasoning said:


> Something obviously is an issue
> 
> I am watching the old Shield promos from late 12/early 13 and it's clear Ambrose is the guy getting the biggest push of the three. They are hotter on him than Reigns or Rollins. So something happened there that soured them on him somewhere along the line
> 
> Now in AEW he is wrestling in midcard and on prelim show despite being world champion. That's two promotions who both clearly shifted their focus away from promotion of him as top guy.
> 
> Maybe the rumors of him being ultra lazy backstage are true. You can still show up for work everyday and be considered lazy.


This is some strong reaching. You are generally one of the strongest posters on here, but your take with Mox is odd.

Mox is AEW's biggest TV draw. He blows everyone else out of the water on Youtube views, and he's the only one who has seen an increase at the start of his segments every week since he's joined AEW. The only metric he isn't topping is merch sales I believe. I've been looking at the numbers for a while now, and if someone like Omega or Cody were getting the numbers Mox is, you wouldn't hear the end of it from Dave.

Dark is going to go on TV and they've been struggling for views. During the pandemic, Mox's sitdown interviews were doing better numbers on Youtube than the actual in-ring segments lmao. If you want a viewership boost for that bringing on your stars is the easiest thing to do.

Mox is quite obviously going to get a year-long title reign or some sort. He's going through these giants to pad his reign. The likes of Hager, Lee, and Cage are just numbers for him to run through. Those guys aren't big deals. After he's done with Cage he's going to feud with MJF. If he's still in midcard segments by then, that's when we can come out with the conspiracies.

The fact is, the pandemic has obviously altered some plans. The end goal seems pretty obvious though. Mox is either dropping the title to Omega at Full Gear, one year from their Lights Out match, or at Revolution, one year from winning the title. Hangman will then probably take the title off Omega. Meltzer pretty much confirmed that Omega and Hangman are next in line too. In interviews, Omega is constantly talking about how his time is coming sooner rather than later. I can see Omega turning on Hangman and then taking the title off Mox.

AEW is predictable as shit. They don't do any swerves. They generally go with the obvious booking decision.

Mox being lazy is the dumbest narrative I've heard. This is the guy who was wrestling the most matches for 2-3 consecutive years. Then people doubled up on that narrative claiming that he isn't willing to do interviews to get the top guy push which Mox himself denied in his interview with Wade Keller. Hell, during this pandemic it seems like Mox was giving the most interviews because there were always new headlines coming out from him.

The reason he got depushed in WWE is most likely due to him being an awkward loner backstage. After he won the US title he mouthed off saying "give me my fucking belt" and they made him sit down and apologize and he was accused of not being sincere when he did. He was referred to as a "different kind of cat" backstage. The video below goes more in-depth with the incident.






Around this same time, he was also one of the front runners to be part of The Authority and be their first WWE champion. A former writer said he was being talked about to take the Orton spot during that storyline but they changed their mind because they didn't think he was ready yet. This incident obviously contributed to their perception of him too.

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with a top face dropping a comedic line here and there. The biggest WWE stars all had comedic moments. The way some people are acting you'd think he's pranking people with a briefcase full of green slime. He said his face character is primarily based on John McClane from Die Hard. A babyface who overcomes the odds and drops one-liners. The problem is that Vince noticed his comedic timing and decided to base his entire character off of that. If someone can't notice a difference between his 2015 stuff and his 2020 stuff, then that says more about that person than anything else.

I know IWC is obsessed with the 'silent badass' and that dropping a comedic line is sacrilegious, but the reaction over a few non-serious lines which are part of his character is something else.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Peerless said:


> This is some strong reaching. You are generally one of the strongest posters on here, but your take with Mox is odd.
> 
> Mox is AEW's biggest TV draw. He blows everyone else out of the water on Youtube views, and he's the only one who has seen an increase at the start of his segments every week since he's joined AEW. The only metric he isn't topping is merch sales I believe.


Just a correction here. Moxley is absolutely topping merchandise sales. The only reason he wasn't #1 on that Pro Wrestling Tees list last year was because his debut was at the end of May, and he didn't have any item on sale until halfway through the year. Yet he still ended up in the top 5 at the end of the year, which means he absolutely dominated merch sales in the 2nd half of 2019. He will end up #1 for 2020 by a wide margin. This is a guy who was one of the very top merchandise sellers in WWE in 2014, when they were still drawing 4 million viewers. He's got no problem outselling anyone in AEW.

So he does indeed blow everyone in AEW out of the water in every metric.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

El Hammerstone said:


> They don't listen bro, hence why Chip is asked after every single show why he watches despite explaining it every week.


Testify. Annoying as.



taker1986 said:


> AEW YouTube videos have been doing very well recently. OC/Jericho getting a million views in 2 days. Jericho/Tyson promo is the 2nd most viewed wrestling video out of Raw, SD and Dynamite in the last month only behind the Becky announcement.
> 
> This shows that people worldwide are starting to take notice of AEW.


Sure, if it's one million fresh people having a look it's great. Reading the comment section though it mainly seems to be existing AEW fans slapping one another on the back about how funny Orange is rather than anyone saying "I've never seen AEW before but this guy is great" which means he's a draw among the AEW existing fan base not the general public.

Regardless, dude is stupid anyway. 5'10, 73 KG. Smaller than most men weight wise but working the former World Champion.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> do you remember the attitude era
> 
> Arguments between two main eventers about pie and strudel
> 
> singing to Vince McMahon with a tiny cowboy hat on
> 
> Beef with a tiny man dressed as a green superhero
> 
> “Sweet cream on an ice cream sammich” - who did you think said this?
> 
> I’d go on but comedy is litttered in these top guys careers.
> 
> At this point bdon, I think you’re just trolling. have a nice day.


The difference is some things are actually funny and others are cringey.

Let's use The Rock as an example. Dude is tough, but also funny. Obviously not everything he said was funny. Ken Shamrock is tough, but not funny so he didn't try being goofy. When someone sucks at delivering humor it doesn't go over as well as it would with somebody who is actually funny and understands comedic timing. The comedy from Austin and Angle over the years worked because it didn't bury anyone like OC does. Comedy is fine in wrestling but it has to suit the character and actually be funny, not corny and cringey.

You play this daft person who doesn't understand the criticisms but it's bullshit and we all see through it. You use comparisons that aren't even similar in almost every response. You are the troll, Optikk. And it's become very obvious lately. I think this is the last time I bother responding to you because you aren't interested in an actual conversation. Have a nice day.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How is it that somehow AEW has become home for totally new school fans and completely old school 70s, 80s, 90s pre-attitude era fans
> 
> it is a very weird amalgamation
> 
> gonna be even more weird with FTR representing the old school style
> 
> i love it - the buffet concept is real


More like the home of fans of over the top, cringey DDT style comedy, the unnecessary flippy shit from PWG and the terrible story lines of modern day WWE. It is a very weird amalgamation.


----------



## dan the marino

bdon said:


> It isn’t a dig at Moxley either. It’s clear as day that Jericho and Cody each believe this is THEIR show. Jericho even went as far to break kayfabe in the first promo after Revolution when he said, “I don’t need some damn belt to know I’m LeChampion”.


Please tell me you have something more than that to go after Jericho with that sort of accusation.


----------



## bdon

dan the marino said:


> Please tell me you have something more than that to go after Jericho with that sort of accusation.


Jericho has clout. He has power to say what is on the show and what shouldn’t be. He knows this business, and yet he continues to be happy watching he and Cody have storyline heavy angles while everyone else just has matches.

And I love Jericho. But he isn’t showing very good leadership. He didn’t care to call out the Lucha Bros for lack of tags, so he shouldn’t be worried about calling out the rest of the roster’s inability to get any storylines.


----------



## The Wood

taker1986 said:


> AEW YouTube videos have been doing very well recently. OC/Jericho getting a million views in 2 days. Jericho/Tyson promo is the 2nd most viewed wrestling video out of Raw, SD and Dynamite in the last month only behind the Becky announcement.
> 
> This shows that people worldwide are starting to take notice of AEW.


Or some clips of the silly wrestling are getting traction as people continue to not watch the overall shows, but watch the parody dude and Mike Tyson because he's a star lowering himself in their eyes? I mean, going viral (although that's not viral) isn't always good. 



bdon said:


> Jericho has clout. He has power to say what is on the show and what shouldn’t be. He knows this business, and yet he continues to be happy watching he and Cody have storyline heavy angles while everyone else just has matches.
> 
> And I love Jericho. But he isn’t showing very good leadership. He didn’t care to call out the Lucha Bros for lack of tags, so he shouldn’t be worried about calling out the rest of the roster’s inability to get any storylines.


I'm convinced that if Jericho's contract was tied to attendance, PPV, merchandise revenue and the like, as with Cody, you would see MAJOR changes in the promotion overnight. Because the product would need to draw, and those guys wouldn't be getting their seven figures without implementing the stuff they know works. I guarantee it. Jericho is getting paid $3 million a year or whatever to basically be blown as the greatest ever, drink vodka and party on boats. He doesn't give a shit. And when it is all done, he'll go back to the WWE for a Hall of Fame induction, documentary and maybe one more seven figure deal for a few matches.

This company has a lot of WCW-like backstage stuff going on, but because it isn't with guys over 6'5 and over 250lbs no one thinks of it the same way.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Or some clips of the silly wrestling are getting traction as people continue to not watch the overall shows, but watch the parody dude and Mike Tyson because he's a star lowering himself in their eyes? I mean, going viral (although that's not viral) isn't always good.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced that if Jericho's contract was tied to attendance, PPV, merchandise revenue and the like, as with Cody, you would see MAJOR changes in the promotion overnight. Because the product would need to draw, and those guys wouldn't be getting their seven figures without implementing the stuff they know works. I guarantee it. Jericho is getting paid $3 million a year or whatever to basically be blown as the greatest ever, drink vodka and party on boats. He doesn't give a shit. And when it is all done, he'll go back to the WWE for a Hall of Fame induction, documentary and maybe one more seven figure deal for a few matches.
> 
> This company has a lot of WCW-like backstage stuff going on, but because it isn't with guys over 6'5 and over 250lbs no one thinks of it the same way.


Absolutely agree. Always thought Khan messed up not giving Jericho a percentage of the take like you see in Hollywood big budget films. Those actors depart from serious films to do a big budget, summer blockbuster and ask for their salary and a percentage of the box office.

Jericho departing from the stability should have earned him a percentage of the revenue. You’d have seen a far different AEW, and you’d have a roster FULL of professionals with Jericho taking a much stronger hands-on approach to making the indy darlings all stars.


----------



## bdon

And I suppose I just reiterated what you just said, but I have been of that mindset since seeing him in the Chris Van Vleet interview.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Or some clips of the silly wrestling are getting traction as people continue to not watch the overall shows, but watch the parody dude and Mike Tyson because he's a star lowering himself in their eyes? I mean, going viral (although that's not viral) isn't always good.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm convinced that if Jericho's contract was tied to attendance, PPV, merchandise revenue and the like, as with Cody, you would see MAJOR changes in the promotion overnight. Because the product would need to draw, and those guys wouldn't be getting their seven figures without implementing the stuff they know works. I guarantee it. Jericho is getting paid $3 million a year or whatever to basically be blown as the greatest ever, drink vodka and party on boats. He doesn't give a shit. And when it is all done, he'll go back to the WWE for a Hall of Fame induction, documentary and maybe one more seven figure deal for a few matches.
> 
> This company has a lot of WCW-like backstage stuff going on, but because it isn't with guys over 6'5 and over 250lbs no one thinks of it the same way.


Email Tony & tell him


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Email Tony & tell him


Another one who adds nothing and doesn't want any actual conversation to occur. What do you think this is going to achieve? He's not reading emails from fans for fucks sake. Posting on forums and on Twitter is the only way to have your voice actually heard these days.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Email Tony & tell him


Okay, what's his E-Mail address? I'll send some of my gripes through.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, what's his E-Mail address? I'll send some of my gripes through.


Getalife&stopspendingallyourwakinghourswatching&[email protected]


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Getalife&stopspendingallyourwakinghourswatching&[email protected]


You could've done better, Pippen. I set you up for a slam dunk and you've hit the rim...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, what's his E-Mail address? I'll send some of my gripes through.


well, he famously responds to tweets

so, there’s that

Cody too, Jericho too

also.... if you guys can post your tweets here i would appreciate it

i want to see something


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, he famously responds to tweets
> 
> so, there’s that
> 
> Cody too, Jericho too
> 
> also.... if you guys can post your tweets here i would appreciate it
> 
> i want to see something


TONY PLEASE REMOVE JOKE WRESTLERS LIKE ORANGE CASSIDY WHO OFFEND MY WRESTLING SENSIBILITIES & GET BACK TO REAL FIGHTS LIKE BACK IN THE DAY WITH AIRPLANE SPINS & PEOPLE BEING PINNED AFTER HIT WITH VALETS PURSE..


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> PEOPLE BEING PINNED AFTER HIT WITH VALETS PURSE..


Not gonna lie but I'd kind of dig that as a finish. Or even the old perfume to the eyes spot.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> TONY PLEASE REMOVE JOKE WRESTLERS LIKE ORANGE CASSIDY WHO OFFEND MY WRESTLING SENSIBILITIES & GET BACK TO REAL FIGHTS LIKE BACK IN THE DAY WITH AIRPLANE SPINS & PEOPLE BEING PINNED AFTER HIT WITH VALETS PURSE..


😂😂😂😂

bring back the serious wrestlers “SWEET CREAM ON AN ICE CREAM SAMMICH” - bring this back.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> 😂😂😂😂
> 
> bring back the serious wrestlers “SWEET CREAM ON AN ICE CREAM SAMMICH” - bring this back.


Are we really going to compare Orange Cassidy with The Rock? Or label The Rock as a comedy wrestler?

The Rock was a serious wrestler who was comedic to embarrass his opponents. He certainly wasn't stuffing his opponents hands down their pockets or throwing baby oil at his opponents to get victories. Once the bell rang Rock was pretty damn serious.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

sideon said:


> Ya'll really love to beat that demo crap into the ground don't you? Nobody gave a crap about demos before AEW debuted, but now it's the only card ya'll have to play when explaining AEW's weak numbers. The truth is that unless The Rock, Roman Reigns, or Stone Cold show up AEW will never break into the millions again.


 Nielsen cares, advertisers care so you are wrong.


----------



## Seafort

It depends what Orange Cassidy is used for. Once upon a time these wrestlers had places in major promotions. 













































They were pushed, but were never headlining as world champions. Wrestling cannot be just two CAWs doing simulated combat, nor can it be non-stop sports entertainment absurdity. It has to be a mixture of both - sometimes skewing more in one direction, sometimes the other, and your roster should reflect a spectrum. If there is a Dean Malenko, there can be an Orange Cassidy as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well said

variety is the spice of life

my fav wrestling style is technical, like ZSJ, Kurt Angle types of matches

but i enjoy these other sorts as well


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

So guys want 70s style wrestling, which was serious and athletic






We’ve been bamboozled folks. They want guys to dance in the ring and be completely silly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> So guys want 70s style wrestling, which was serious and athletic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We’ve been bamboozled folks. They want guys to dance in the ring and be completely silly.


Look mate, I think you've been told at least 5 times by me alone what we want so I'll explain a final time and maybe you can stop pretending you don't know. It's not 1970's style wrestling we want all we want is serious style professional wrestling.

That doesn't mean you can't have comedy it just means your comedy isn't insulting. The Iiconics are a good example of a comedic tag team that aren't insulting. They're very silly backstage but when the bell rings they're very into the idea of actually winning instead of throwing oil at their opponents and goofing around. Kurt Angle in 2001 is another good example, Edge and Christian when they first started getting popular etc etc.

In terms of style instead of doing a random 650 flip over the top rope into a hurricarana whilst 10 guys awkwardly stand there waiting to catch you we prefer a little bit of realism. Most importantly we want guys that look and act like wrestlers. No more guys smaller than my Mrs getting a run on national TV and going back and forth with Jericho. It's just stupid.

That's literally it. We don't want guys trading holds for 15 minutes just a more realistic style. I'm going to tear my hair out if I have to explain this to you a seventh time.


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> So guys want 70s style wrestling, which was serious and athletic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We’ve been bamboozled folks. They want guys to dance in the ring and be completely silly.


Off topic but there was a gimmick wrestler on ITV wrestling in the 1980's who would hypnotize his opponents in tag matches to attack each other.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

it is weird though, as who determines which comedy is 'insulting' ?

I find OC awesome - in fact, I would almost argue he is not a comedy wrestler, just a character one - he is uninterested, until you hurt him or his friends - and then he is very interested suddenly.

The Stadium stampede - also not insulting - Deadpool-esque / 4th wall genre - valid comedy

I find Toilet Humour insulting, as well as slapstick and cheap yuck yuck jokes - I would not be onboard with that - but it is 'eye of the beholder' stuff in the end, isn't it?

And my real question is.... is there not space for both anyway? Its been over a year now - AEW is still doing what its doing, it wont change. The 'comedy' stuff actually draws - we've seen in ratings and Youtube views. It does not detract from the rest of the show

Pac v OC did not negatively affect Bucks v Omega Cowboys at all. In fact, was my 2nd fav match of the night

So, what do we really hope happens here that as a collective everybody will be onboard with?

Because if I have to choose between what I like, and what someone else likes - I will always very selfishly want the thing to be something I like - which is what AEW is currently


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is weird though, as who determines which comedy is 'insulting' ?


people who think their opinion is superior and without fault

mental gymnastics by is played in this sxn everytime someone makes a good argument against these elitists.

Orange Cassidy's level of humour is actually arguably more mature than that of the Rock's lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> people who think their opinion is superior and without fault
> 
> mental gymnastics by is played in this sxn everytime someone makes a good argument against these elitists.
> 
> Orange Cassidy's level of humour is actually arguably more mature than that of the Rock's lol.


Comedy is so hard to do right.

It is generational dependent, geographical, lifestyle, income and all the rest

Drama is easy, the dog dies, the kid dies - everybody is sad. There are universal 'sadnesses' / there is not universal Comedy

I for instance like Frankie Boyle's standup, Jimmy Carr, Stephen Hughes, Chris Rock, Louis CK, Dave Chapelle

I like Miranda, The Office - I really am liking this new Space Force

By the same token I can't stand South Park, I dislike Curb your Enthusiasm. and I am not a fan of Arrested Development

Does that invalidate them? Not at all - I understand what people like about it

Even Jeff Dunham.... I get why he has an audience.... just don't force me to watch it


----------



## Seafort

Chip Chipperson said:


> In terms of style instead of doing a random 650 flip over the top rope into a hurricarana whilst 10 guys awkwardly stand there waiting to catch you we prefer a little bit of realism. Most importantly we want guys that look and act like wrestlers. No more guys smaller than my Mrs getting a run on national TV and going back and forth with Jericho. It's just stupid.


Agreed on this. I cannot stand this and it is a cliche that should be banned by both WWE and AEW for at least five years.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> TONY PLEASE REMOVE JOKE WRESTLERS LIKE ORANGE CASSIDY WHO OFFEND MY WRESTLING SENSIBILITIES & GET BACK TO REAL FIGHTS LIKE BACK IN THE DAY WITH AIRPLANE SPINS & PEOPLE BEING PINNED AFTER HIT WITH VALETS PURSE..


GREAT POST MATE. DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS A BRICK IN THE PURSE? 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is weird though, as who determines which comedy is 'insulting' ?
> 
> I find OC awesome - in fact, I would almost argue he is not a comedy wrestler, just a character one - he is uninterested, until you hurt him or his friends - and then he is very interested suddenly.
> 
> The Stadium stampede - also not insulting - Deadpool-esque / 4th wall genre - valid comedy
> 
> I find Toilet Humour insulting, as well as slapstick and cheap yuck yuck jokes - I would not be onboard with that - but it is 'eye of the beholder' stuff in the end, isn't it?
> 
> And my real question is.... is there not space for both anyway? Its been over a year now - AEW is still doing what its doing, it wont change. The 'comedy' stuff actually draws - we've seen in ratings and Youtube views. It does not detract from the rest of the show
> 
> Pac v OC did not negatively affect Bucks v Omega Cowboys at all. In fact, was my 2nd fav match of the night
> 
> So, what do we really hope happens here that as a collective everybody will be onboard with?
> 
> Because if I have to choose between what I like, and what someone else likes - I will always very selfishly want the thing to be something I like - which is what AEW is currently


Here’s how you determine which comedy is insulting: Can it take place in a real conflict? If the answer is “no,” then it’s bad comedy for wrestling. It’s that simple. It’s not some conundrum. 



Seafort said:


> It depends what Orange Cassidy is used for. Once upon a time these wrestlers had places in major promotions.
> View attachment 87415
> 
> 
> View attachment 87417
> 
> 
> View attachment 87418
> 
> 
> View attachment 87419
> 
> 
> View attachment 87420
> 
> 
> They were pushed, but were never headlining as world champions. Wrestling cannot be just two CAWs doing simulated combat, nor can it be non-stop sports entertainment absurdity. It has to be a mixture of both - sometimes skewing more in one direction, sometimes the other, and your roster should reflect a spectrum. If there is a Dean Malenko, there can be an Orange Cassidy as well.


Usually love your posts, but I’ve got to strongly disagree here. All those gimmicks were heavily lambasted and mocked at the time. They’re not great examples of guys finding a place.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Comedy is so hard to do right.
> 
> It is generational dependent, geographical, lifestyle, income and all the rest
> 
> Drama is easy, the dog dies, the kid dies - everybody is sad. There are universal 'sadnesses' / there is not universal Comedy
> 
> I for instance like Frankie Boyle's standup, Jimmy Carr, Stephen Hughes, Chris Rock, Louis CK, Dave Chapelle
> 
> I like Miranda, The Office - I really am liking this new Space Force
> 
> By the same token I can't stand South Park, I dislike Curb your Enthusiasm. and I am not a fan of Arrested Development
> 
> Does that invalidate them? Not at all - I understand what people like about it
> 
> Even Jeff Dunham.... I get why he has an audience.... just don't force me to watch it


Dry sarcastic humour with some self-deprivation is definitely my thing.
Like right now, my fav comedian for sure is Romesh Ranganathan. My fav all time comedian is Stephen Fry. I’m with you about South Park btw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Dry sarcastic humour with some self-deprivation is definitely my thing.
> Like right now, my fav comedian for sure is Romesh Ranganathan. My fav all time comedian is Stephen Fry. I’m with you about South Park btw.


I like the dry stuff too

Romesh is real good - never got into Fry though / hence... different tastes 

(ps> if there is a Fry set you can highly recommend I will give it a look)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I like the dry stuff too
> 
> Romesh is real good - never got into Fry though / hence... different tastes
> 
> (ps> if there is a Fry set you can highly recommend I will give it a look)


It’s more of his QI work that I enjoyed. That kept me going for a good decade or so.


----------



## bdon

I enjoy Orange Cassidy. Him making the previous World Champion look like shit is stupid.


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> I enjoy Orange Cassidy. Him making the previous World Champion look like shit is stupid.


Subjective, but I'd argue that was acceptable as Jericho is clowning around a lot of the time and a heel. For Benny Hill style wrestling it at least looked OK. Was in line with the characters and how the promotion operates and sets up future stories. Too phony WWE for my liking, but it is what it is.

By contrast I thought Inner Circle's drone breaking segment with Matt Hardy was far worse because it was awkward and made everybody in IC look stupid. At the same time nobody buys Matt as a guy 5 wrestlers would run away from.

Then there's Orange Cassidy's comedy act during the Casino Ladder Match. I'm not sure how to evaluate that lol.

Generally I'd say AEW has fallen into the same trap as WWE. Too complicated for kids - who wrestling relies on in the long term - yet too silly for casuals, who wrestling needs to grow.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> It’s more of his QI work that I enjoyed. That kept me going for a good decade or so.


ah, fair play - yah - the QI stuff is very good


----------



## Peerless

AEWMoxley said:


> Just a correction here. Moxley is absolutely topping merchandise sales. The only reason he wasn't #1 on that Pro Wrestling Tees list last year was because his debut was at the end of May, and he didn't have any item on sale until halfway through the year. Yet he still ended up in the top 5 at the end of the year, which means he absolutely dominated merch sales in the 2nd half of 2019. He will end up #1 for 2020 by a wide margin. This is a guy who was one of the very top merchandise sellers in WWE in 2014, when they were still drawing 4 million viewers. He's got no problem outselling anyone in AEW.
> 
> So he does indeed blow everyone in AEW out of the water in every metric.


Yeah, that's true. Based on that point I can definitely see him topping 2020, but if it's not him then I will assume it's Jericho. Jericho is always having new merch coming out and having segments designed to advertise his merch.

I also think Mox is lacking that one popular shirt design. In recent memory, CM Punk had the white shirt, Becky had "The Man", Cena had different colors of hustle, loyalty, and respect. If you go further back, Austin 3:16 and nwo were the most popular designs. The kind of shirt a lot of people in the crowd would be wearing.


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> Subjective, but I'd argue that was acceptable as Jericho is clowning around a lot of the time and a heel. For Benny Hill style wrestling it at least looked OK. Was in line with the characters and how the promotion operates and sets up future stories. Too phony WWE for my liking, but it is what it is.
> 
> By contrast I thought Inner Circle's drone breaking segment with Matt Hardy was far worse because it was awkward and made everybody in IC look stupid. At the same time nobody buys Matt as a guy 5 wrestlers would run away from.
> 
> Then there's Orange Cassidy's comedy act during the Casino Ladder Match. I'm not sure how to evaluate that lol.
> 
> Generally I'd say AEW has fallen into the same trap as WWE. Too complicated for kids - who wrestling relies on in the long term - yet too silly for casuals, who wrestling needs to grow.


Agreed on damn near all of this.

Just don’t want Orange Cassidy in any main event scene. Just like I don’t want Matt Hardy in a main event scene.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is weird though, as who determines which comedy is 'insulting' ?


Wood explained well on a prior page but simply if it makes wrestling look fake odds are I'll hate it.

So for example, if AEW had a guy come out this week (ANY guy) and he decided that due to lack of competition on earth he has talked to Kris Statlander who has found him an opponent from Neptune and a guy came out as a legitimate alien from another planet I'd rightfully say "This is insulting to my intelligence" and shit all over it. Most of AEW's fan base would laugh though...

Compare that to say if Chris Jericho came out this week on TV and he called Orange Cassidy out and he threw 5 ridiculous insults his way before beating someone in a quick match. That'd be fine and could maybe even be funny depending on what Jericho says.

Some of AEW's comedy isn't insulting and is just way too "try hard" as well. Sammy coming out and singing is a good example, it was mildly amusing the first time they did it a month or two ago so they do it again this past week. It just reeks of "Please laugh again"


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> GREAT POST MATE. DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS A BRICK IN THE PURSE?
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s how you determine which comedy is insulting: Can it take place in a real conflict? If the answer is “no,” then it’s bad comedy for wrestling. It’s that simple. It’s not some conundrum.
> 
> 
> 
> Usually love your posts, but I’ve got to strongly disagree here. All those gimmicks were heavily lambasted and mocked at the time. They’re not great examples of guys finding a place.


Thanks. Maybe they're not all the best examples (except perhaps '88 Blue Blazer). But you get my overall point...wrestling should ideally be a spectrum or presentation. That likely attracts the larger audience. Going all-in on one style of presentation is pretty stiffling creatively, IMO.

Now the question is does Cassidy fit into that spectrum? For now, yes. But ideally this character needs to evolve. He can't be doing the same exact shticht in twelve months. He'll ultimately need to start speaking and we need to get some character depth as to why he's treating the sport (in its fictional universe) in such a mocking fashion. Perhaps we'll find out that he thinks he's such a good wrestler...a Tom Brady in a sea of common players - that he holds the rest of the roster and the promotion itself in absolute contempt, and that's why he's acted in such a mocking fashion. And then he can add, he's so good that even when he's self-governing and acting like a clown, when he's dialed back 85%, he's still 100% better than the rest of the roster.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

This is comedy in wrestling done properly. It features former (Current?) AEW star CIMA.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wood explained well on a prior page but simply if it makes wrestling look fake odds are I'll hate it.
> 
> So for example, if AEW had a guy come out this week (ANY guy) and he decided that due to lack of competition on earth he has talked to Kris Statlander who has found him an opponent from Neptune and a guy came out as a legitimate alien from another planet I'd rightfully say "This is insulting to my intelligence" and shit all over it. Most of AEW's fan base would laugh though...
> 
> Compare that to say if Chris Jericho came out this week on TV and he called Orange Cassidy out and he threw 5 ridiculous insults his way before beating someone in a quick match. That'd be fine and could maybe even be funny depending on what Jericho says.
> 
> Some of AEW's comedy isn't insulting and is just way too "try hard" as well. Sammy coming out and singing is a good example, it was mildly amusing the first time they did it a month or two ago so they do it again this past week. It just reeks of "Please laugh again"


that’s fair - you like what you like

as long as you understand there are two massive variables here depending on the individual 

’comedy’ ..... and ‘intelligence’


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Seafort said:


> Thanks. Maybe they're not all the best examples (except perhaps '88 Blue Blazer). But you get my overall point...wrestling should ideally be a spectrum or presentation. That likely attracts the larger audience. Going all-in on one style of presentation is pretty stiffling creatively, IMO.
> 
> Now the question is does Cassidy fit into that spectrum? For now, yes. But ideally this character needs to evolve. He can't be doing the same exact shticht in twelve months. He'll ultimately need to start speaking and we need to get some character depth as to why he's treating the sport (in its fictional universe) in such a mocking fashion. Perhaps we'll find out that he thinks he's such a good wrestler...a Tom Brady in a sea of common players - that he holds the rest of the roster and the promotion itself in absolute contempt, and that's why he's acted in such a mocking fashion. And then he can add, he's so good that even when he's self-governing and acting like a clown, when he's dialed back 85%, he's still 100% better than the rest of the roster.


He’s started speaking so they’re definitely ahead of your thinking (which I agree with)


----------



## The Wood

Seafort said:


> Thanks. Maybe they're not all the best examples (except perhaps '88 Blue Blazer). But you get my overall point...wrestling should ideally be a spectrum or presentation. That likely attracts the larger audience. Going all-in on one style of presentation is pretty stiffling creatively, IMO.
> 
> Now the question is does Cassidy fit into that spectrum? For now, yes. But ideally this character needs to evolve. He can't be doing the same exact shticht in twelve months. He'll ultimately need to start speaking and we need to get some character depth as to why he's treating the sport (in its fictional universe) in such a mocking fashion. Perhaps we'll find out that he thinks he's such a good wrestler...a Tom Brady in a sea of common players - that he holds the rest of the roster and the promotion itself in absolute contempt, and that's why he's acted in such a mocking fashion. And then he can add, he's so good that even when he's self-governing and acting like a clown, when he's dialed back 85%, he's still 100% better than the rest of the roster.


I think both points are very strongly debatable. When you cast too wide a net, you miss your target a lot of the time. You might catch more fish with a tighter net you actually know how to throw than if you just cast a giant one with great big open holes. There is room to move in one style of presentation. And there is room for comedic moments and time to release tension. Knowing how to do that is all part of booking. 

As for Cassidy, I just think the gimmick is too self-cannibalistic. It makes fun of wrestling, which is the genre it is trying to exist in. That sort of post-irony is funny to people who are already hooked and kind of hate what they're watching, but it's counterproductive when trying to get new fans in, and you're trying to get them to engage with the product, and possibly even develop a fandom. I don't see room for evolution. His whole shtick is that he doesn't care because wrestling is bullshit and you're an idiot if you watch it. If he deviates from that, he's not that. If he stays that, it's always going to hurt way more than it helps.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> I think both points are very strongly debatable. When you cast too wide a net, you miss your target a lot of the time. You might catch more fish with a tighter net you actually know how to throw than if you just cast a giant one with great big open holes. There is room to move in one style of presentation. And there is room for comedic moments and time to release tension. Knowing how to do that is all part of booking.
> 
> As for Cassidy, I just think the gimmick is too self-cannibalistic. It makes fun of wrestling, which is the genre it is trying to exist in. That sort of post-irony is funny to people who are already hooked and kind of hate what they're watching, but it's counterproductive when trying to get new fans in, and you're trying to get them to engage with the product, and possibly even develop a fandom. I don't see room for evolution. His whole shtick is that he doesn't care because wrestling is bullshit and you're an idiot if you watch it. If he deviates from that, he's not that. If he stays that, it's always going to hurt way more than it helps.


Best Friends and Orange Cassidy is one of those acts that could be good. Too meta without intelligence to ever be great, but certainly crazy enough to do big numbers on social media and develop a fan-base. But they've done it in such a throw everything at the wall kind of way. For example, you have the on-off weak link (Chuck) lasting a long time against strong competitors and winning matches. You have Cassidy, who's offence is weak even when trying, getting the upper hand on guys like Sky and PAC. Then they overexpose it - which screams laugh at me - in angles and matches which actually mean something, like the Casino Ladder Match or against Jericho. Finally, IMO it's the sort of thing which works best as full on heel before slow burning into a babyface act - think Johnny B Badd or DX.

Problem seems to be Bucks don't know how to book their friends with restraint and the old school bookers (Cody being the only one) wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *I like the dry stuff too*
> 
> Romesh is real good - never got into Fry though / hence... different tastes
> 
> (ps> if there is a Fry set you can highly recommend I will give it a look)


Like a true Brit. That being said Hot Fuzz is in my top 10 favorite movies and I watch it probably every few months.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW's viewers are no longer young and the average age jumped to 48 years old since April 1 and Dynamite's dvr numbers droppped from 500k to 200k 


The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the AEW audience has aged since April 1, in the second quarter of the year. The demographic numbers measured include live and same day through DVR. While AEW still has the youngest average audience in wrestling, that median age is 48 (69% male). RAW is the second youngest (51, 64% male), followed by Smackdown (54, 60% male) and NXT (56, 64% male). 

AEW also averages more viewers live than the other wrestling shows. It’s believed that this is mostly families watching together as opposed to friends, as the pandemic obviously would prevent friends from getting together and the numbers haven’t changed much in those measures. Smackdown, however, dropped some weeks during the pandemic.
Since the numbers for the quarter started when the pandemic had already started, all of the shows dropped 20% or more. The younger audience dropped even more, possibly due to news coverage of the pandemic. RAW keeps a similar age level as it did last year (when it was 49-50), and Smackdown has aged from 50-54 while NXT is slightly older. AEW aged the most, as it was 39 when it started and stabilized at 42, before the pandemic changed things.

Meanwhile, DVR viewership has went down since the pandemic as well. The May 6th episode had 204,000 additional viewers while DVR for NXT had 140,000. This a huge decrease from before the pandemic.










411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW's viewers are no longer young and the average age jumped to 48 years old since April 1 and Dynamite's dvr numbers droppped from 500k to 200k
> 
> 
> The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the AEW audience has aged since April 1, in the second quarter of the year. The demographic numbers measured include live and same day through DVR. While AEW still has the youngest average audience in wrestling, that median age is 48 (69% male). RAW is the second youngest (51, 64% male), followed by Smackdown (54, 60% male) and NXT (56, 64% male).
> 
> AEW also averages more viewers live than the other wrestling shows. It’s believed that this is mostly families watching together as opposed to friends, as the pandemic obviously would prevent friends from getting together and the numbers haven’t changed much in those measures. Smackdown, however, dropped some weeks during the pandemic.
> Since the numbers for the quarter started when the pandemic had already started, all of the shows dropped 20% or more. The younger audience dropped even more, possibly due to news coverage of the pandemic. RAW keeps a similar age level as it did last year (when it was 49-50), and Smackdown has aged from 50-54 while NXT is slightly older. AEW aged the most, as it was 39 when it started and stabilized at 42, before the pandemic changed things.
> 
> Meanwhile, DVR viewership has went down since the pandemic as well. The May 6th episode had 204,000 additional viewers while DVR for NXT had 140,000. This a huge decrease from before the pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite
> 
> 
> Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com


Median and average are different.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Median and average are different.


Oh yeah true I made a mistake I meant median age.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Oh yeah true I made a mistake I meant median age.


But I mean, like you said before, let’s wait for what Tony Khan says before believing Dave Meltzer.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> But I mean, like you said before, let’s wait for what Tony Khan says before believing Dave Meltzer.


I mean he'd know more than Dave but I'll wait for Tony to confirm it even though its most likely true because their 18-49 demo has droppped significantly but we still don't know if what Meltzer is saying is true.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Masked Avenger said:


> Like a true Brit. That being said Hot Fuzz is in my top 10 favorite movies and I watch it probably every few months.


haha! I’m a Saffa (South African) - but i lived in UK on multiple occasions and I’m stuck in London now for 4 months because of the Pandemic and ZA closing its borders

so... i have a sense of humour about things

it puts it in perspective when people like here is acting like the world is ending cause Moxley went 15min with a jobguy or OC throws a couple of kicks 

ps: Hot Fuzz is amazing


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> haha! I’m a Saffa (South African) - but i lived in UK on multiple occasions and I’m stuck in London now for 4 months because of the Pandemic and ZA closing its borders
> 
> so... i have a sense of humour about things
> 
> it puts it in perspective when people like here is acting like the world is ending cause Moxley went 15min with a jobguy or OC throws a couple of kicks
> 
> ps: Hot Fuzz is amazing


The last few months or so has made me realise just how sheltered people are. They’ve spent a lot of time on this forum writing garbage essays when they could be doing something productive with their time or helping out the vulnerable and so. While I’ve had to close my business, I’ve gained new skills, become a contact tracer, helped out at essential services.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> haha! I’m a Saffa (South African) - but i lived in UK on multiple occasions and I’m stuck in London now for 4 months because of the Pandemic and ZA closing its borders
> 
> so... i have a sense of humour about things
> 
> it puts it in perspective when people like here is acting like the world is ending cause Moxley went 15min with a jobguy or OC throws a couple of kicks
> 
> ps: Hot Fuzz is amazing


Nobody is acting like it's the end of the world. This is an attempt at de-legitimizing someones opinion by making them sound crazy. You guys do it all the time instead of arguing the point. Optikk is 12500 comments into this forum and he's telling people they could be doing other things with their time. You literally pay to be here. That will do me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> The last few months or so has made me realise just how sheltered people are. They’ve spent a lot of time on this forum writing garbage essays when they could be doing something productive with their time or helping out the vulnerable and so. While I’ve had to close my business, I’ve gained new skills, become a contact tracer, helped out at essential services.


geez, much respect Optikk

sorry you’ve had to close business / but giving back like that is top notch stuff

but yeah, i feel kinda sad for people where wrestling is this major thing for them / it is a fine hobby, but it sits with my 7 or so other hobbies - not to mention work and travel

now imagine if you hated your hobby


----------



## RiverFenix

Trump/RNC likely moving Convention speeches to Jacksonville - I wonder if they'll use Daily's Place. AEW could just have a taped show in the can for that week, but security around the event might block them out further and then it would need to be deep cleaned after. Also the hotel they stay in will be booked up. This would be third week in August.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> geez, much respect Optikk
> 
> sorry you’ve had to close business / but giving back like that is top notch stuff
> 
> but yeah, i feel kinda sad for people where wrestling is this major thing for them / it is a fine hobby, but it sits with my 7 or so other hobbies - not to mention work and travel
> 
> now imagine if you hated your hobby


it hasn't affected me _that_ much because i'm still earning in other ways. plus my employees are being paid by the government, so i'm ok.
should be able to open up by July if the Government sticks to plans, but i'm concerned that nobody will come back. may just close up in all honesty. recession hasn't hit us yet. 

yeah it's a bit sad isn't it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> it hasn't affected me _that_ much because i'm still earning in other ways. plus my employees are being paid by the government, so i'm ok.
> should be able to open up by July if the Government sticks to plans, but i'm concerned that nobody will come back. may just close up in all honesty. recession hasn't hit us yet.
> 
> yeah it's a bit sad isn't it.


is it office or retail? As i think retail can open 15th?

if its a pub.... the kickstarter that shit or something / we can’t afford to lose a pub


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is it office or retail? As i think retail can open 15th?
> 
> if its a pub.... the kickstarter that shit or something / we can’t afford to lose a pub


restaurant. it's no biggie, we shall see what happens. really don't want to take a loan out just to support it.

I started working on another business just before covid hit - a clothing label. The deal with the factory fell through then Covid hit. And i've given up on that now because of the upcoming recession. + the heavy emphasis on "fast fashion" means me and my business partner have gone back to the drawing board. that'll come hopefully in a year or 2 though


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> restaurant. it's no biggie, we shall see what happens. really don't want to take a loan out just to support it.
> 
> I started working on another business just before covid hit - a clothing label. The deal with the factory fell through then Covid hit. And i've given up on that now because of the upcoming recession. + the heavy emphasis on "fast fashion" means me and my business partner have gone back to the drawing board. that'll come hopefully in a year or 2 though


good luck with that!

was there no space to do take-away only for the pandemic period? or is that too low return for the amounts you have to pay to keep ’open’


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> The last few months or so has made me realise just how sheltered people are. They’ve spent a lot of time on this forum writing garbage essays when they could be doing something productive with their time or helping out the vulnerable and so. While I’ve had to close my business, I’ve gained new skills, become a contact tracer, helped out at essential services.


Who says we didn't? I've learned a fair few new skills during this pandemic actually. I learned a heap of new audio and video editing skills that I look forward to using in future.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> but yeah, i feel kinda sad for people where wrestling is this major thing for them / it is a fine hobby, but it sits with my 7 or so other hobbies - not to mention work and travel


Why? For some people Disney is major for them, for others modern history is. We're passionate about wrestling and that's sad for you?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> good luck with that!
> 
> was there no space to do take-away only for the pandemic period? or is that too low return for the amounts you have to pay to keep ’open’


we considered it; but based on discussions with some other local business owners, it wasn't worth it. their returns were piss poor.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Who says we didn't? I've learned a fair few new skills during this pandemic actually. I learned a heap of new audio and video editing skills that I look forward to using in future.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? For some people Disney is major for them, for others modern history is. We're passionate about wrestling and that's sad for you?


who said we were talking about you in both cases Chip?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> we considered it; but based on discussions with some other local business owners, it wasn't worth it. their returns were piss poor.


fair play mate

what sort of restaurant if i may ask? Any specific cuisine?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fair play mate
> 
> what sort of restaurant if i may ask? Any specific cuisine?


chicken wings and burgers, lol.


----------



## bdon

Literally pays to be here and suggests we do something better with our time. I apologize for posting while at work. I apologize for working out of town 3 weeks at a time and away from my wife and children who do give me something to do. I’m sorry you accept mediocrity.

I don’t.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> chicken wings and burgers, lol.


dude ‘these are a few of my favourite things’

you must have a banging blue cheese sauce recipe to share for those wings


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude ‘these are a few of my favourite things’
> 
> you must have a banging blue cheese sauce recipe to share for those wings


w buffalo wings YES
most popular recipe is the jerk wings tho


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> w buffalo wings YES
> most popular recipe is the jerk wings tho


Ah, yeah - forgot UK had a jerk chicken obsession


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Orange Cassidy with the most views of ‘A Shot of Brandi’ within 1 week

2nd is MJF with a video that is 7 months old 

they’re watching the guy..... cooking

not over, right?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Orange Cassidy with the most views of ‘A Shot of Brandi’ within 1 week
> 
> 2nd is MJF with a video that is 7 months old
> 
> they’re watching the guy..... cooking
> 
> not over, right?


the fans spoke with their money and views


----------



## bdon

Congrats. Make OC champion, so we can stay stuck at the 750-800k mark vs literally their worst show effort and ratings wise hitting 650k. OC gonna make them billions!!! Yeah baby!!!!


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Congrats. Make OC champion, so we can stay stuck at the 750-800k mark vs literally their worst show effort and ratings wise hitting 650k. OC gonna make them billions!!! Yeah baby!!!!


As opposed to not having OC as champion, which is bringing in.....










...

.


700-800k viewers.


----------



## AEWMoxley

OC will never be champion. He's not the kind of character that will ever win a world title.

He's generated some interest, but it's being massively overstated. He's got a couple of YouTube videos over 1 million views, with all of the other ones being significantly below that. He's gained some viewers in a handful of quarter hours, but he usually loses viewers.

I look at him as a Road Dogg type of character (minus the mic skills and charisma.) He's a guy who can be over in a comedy role in the midcard (albeit nowhere near as over as Road Dogg was), because you can get away with doing comedy in the midcard, as many fans don't take that part of the card too seriously. However, if you were to thrust him into the main event scene, he would lose whatever 'overness' he has.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> OC will never be champion. He's not the kind of character that will ever win a world title.
> 
> He's generated some interest, but it's being massively overstated. He's got a couple of YouTube videos over 1 million views, with all of the other ones being significantly below that. He's gained some viewers in a handful of quarter hours, but he usually loses viewers.
> 
> I look at him as a Road Dogg type of character (minus the mic skills and charisma.) He's a guy who can be over in a comedy role in the midcard (albeit nowhere near as over as Road Dogg was), because you can get away with doing comedy in the midcard, as many fans don't take that part of the card too seriously. However, if you were to thrust him into the main event scene, he would lose whatever 'overness' he has.


He's 'Too Cool'

From having his own gimmick, to having his comedy spot (Worm=Kicks) to being ridiculously over with the audience.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> As opposed to not having OC as champion, which is bringing in.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 700-800k viewers.


Which has more room to potentially grow? Which has more potential to make everyone else below them on the card look good vs looking like jokes?


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Which has more room to potentially grow? Which has more potential to make everyone else below them on the card look good vs looking like jokes?


Have they grown in 8 months with Jericho or Moxley as champion?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Congrats. Make OC champion, so we can stay stuck at the 750-800k mark vs literally their worst show effort and ratings wise hitting 650k. OC gonna make them billions!!! Yeah baby!!!!


You're mighty optimistic to think that they'd be drawing 750-800K with him as world champ. You'd probably see many viewers tuning out.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> Have they grown in 8 months with Jericho or Moxley as champion?


The only reason they are where they are in terms of viewership is because of these two guys.

Without them in the company, they'd be drawing 500K or less.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> You're mighty optimistic to think that they'd be drawing 750-800K with him as world champ. You'd probably see many viewers tuning out.


You're probably right.

Jericho's last 14 Dynamites as Champion:
851,000 average

Moxley's 14 Dynamites as Champion:
753,000 average

Considering Moxley has lost 100k viewers since he became champion.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> You're probably right.
> 
> Jericho's last 14 Dynamites as Champion:
> 851,000 average
> 
> Moxley's 14 Dynamites as Champion:
> 753,000 average
> 
> Considering Moxley has lost 100k viewers since he became champion.


Moxley didn't lose any viewers. The pandemic has resulted in a decline in pro wrestling viewership across the board. No promotion has been spared.

However, with OC as champ, you'd see a much steeper decline.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> The pandemic has resulted in a decline in pro wrestling viewership across the board. No promotion has been spared.


Cool.

That's all I wanted to hear.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> Cool.
> 
> That's all I wanted to hear.


Why? We already knew that.

That doesn't change the fact that the company is solely relying on literally only two guys for a significant chunk of viewership.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> Why? We already knew that.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that the company is solely relying on literally only two guys for a significant chunk of viewership.


Nope. Not everyone.

A very special person thinks using the pandemic is an excuse.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Congrats. Make OC champion, so we can stay stuck at the 750-800k mark vs literally their worst show effort and ratings wise hitting 650k. OC gonna make them billions!!! Yeah baby!!!!


I think he can be TNT champion

what would you think of it if he beat Cody?

C O N U N D R U M


----------



## AEWMoxley

TNT champ seems a lot more likely. I wouldn't mind it, since I don't care one bit about that title.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think he can be TNT champion
> 
> what would you think of it if he beat Cody?
> 
> C O N U N D R U M


I’d fucking hate it, because the STORY goes to absolute fucking shit.

So, I’m sure that is an idea they’ve played around with during the pandemic knowing it’d be a good ha ha, yuck yuck moment. And a lot of you would sing the fucking praises of it all. Or as some might call it...

“THIS IS SUCH GOOD SHIT!”


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I’d fucking hate it, because the STORY goes to absolute fucking shit.
> 
> So, I’m sure that is an idea they’ve played around with during the pandemic knowing it’d be a good ha ha, yuck yuck moment. And a lot of you would sing the fucking praises of it all. Or as some might call it...
> 
> “THIS IS SUCH GOOD SHIT!”


More than 1M people tuned in to see OC during the battle royal so…..


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> More than 1M people tuned in to see OC during the battle royal so…..


Doesn’t mean I’d let my promotion become Comedy Central. There is a place for him on the card.

In the main event and making guys look bad who have a potential to grow my business beyond what it is, is not where he belongs. Or else he needs to start taking it far more seriously and stop being a comedy goof all the time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Doesn’t mean I’d let my promotion become Comedy Central. There is a place for him on the card.
> 
> In the main event and making guys look bad who have a potential to grow my business beyond what it is, is not where he belongs. Or else he needs to start taking it far more seriously and stop being a comedy goof all the time.


nobody looked bad

it did not happen

it was fine


----------



## PavelGaborik

Fully expecting NXT to gather more viewers tonight. Fall out show and AEW's card is a bit on the "meh" side on paper tonight. 

Hopefully AEW manages to get 700k+ though either way.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PavelGaborik said:


> Fully expecting NXT to gather more viewers tonight. Fall out show and AEW's card is a bit on the "meh" side on paper tonight.
> 
> Hopefully AEW manages to get 700k+ though either way.


I think 50k switches between AEW and NXT

What is more important is 'what is on the news'?

Pandemic, old now - Riots.... sees to have quieted down a bit?

At the moment the News is their biggest competitor


----------



## rbl85

It's ok the rating attraction Hikaru Shida is on tonight.

I'm joking a bit but lately all of her segments have done really really well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ratings Magnet OC is also on - RATINGS Cassidy!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I don't think there's anything wrong with OC


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ratings Magnet OC is also on - RATINGS Cassidy!


they have to open with him let’s be honest. Bring in the fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with OC
> 
> they had to open with him let’s be honest. Bring in the fans.


I recon they are starting the TNT championship tonight

Good to start with a title match

if not that, then OC for sure


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think 50k switches between AEW and NXT
> 
> What is more important is 'what is on the news'?
> 
> Pandemic, old now - Riots.... sees to have quieted down a bit?
> 
> At the moment the News is their biggest competitor


AEW isn't at war with the news. They are at war with that tattoo show and WWE's developmental brand. They aren't helping themselves by announcing lackluster cards. I'd say making no announcements when the card is shit would help them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Trending over Nascar

takes some doing, aye?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270893656459878405


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cassidy is trending and still being talked about right now which is great but its mostly people talking about how funny the segment was and how funny Jericho's final line was. AEW's intention was to try and sell a big match between the two instead they've got their weekly laugh instead.


----------



## Pippen94

Shit.. AEW might something here in Orange Cassidy & to think ppl wanted him fired


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Shit.. AEW might something here in Orange Cassidy & to think ppl wanted him fired


I’ve said from the get-go that he had a place on the show and should be given a chance. Where ratings sky rocket is when you can get those Low-to-Midcard guys who do well in the ratings and can carry that segment of the card.

I didn’t have quarter hour breakdowns in the 90s, but I would imagine the Reg Mysterio’s, Juventud’s, Jericho’s, etc did super well in the quarter hours. They weren’t exactly comedy wrestlers, so they deserved a spot higher up the card, but the point remains, you’ve got Hogan and Sting and Flair to carry the main event. No reason for them to begin feuding with Mysterio. It’s a waste of the ratings movers.

Once this little Jericho/OC thing finishes, I hope they move OC back to where he belongs.


----------



## Peerless

Orange Cassidy's quarter ratings are pretty overrated. His real value is in his stuff going viral on social media. Black People Twitter loves his stuff. If you want something to get over on social media going through them is the best way.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> I’ve said from the get-go that he had a place on the show and should be given a chance. Where ratings sky rocket is when you can get those Low-to-Midcard guys who do well in the ratings and can carry that segment of the card.
> 
> I didn’t have quarter hour breakdowns in the 90s, but I would imagine the Reg Mysterio’s, Juventud’s, Jericho’s, etc did super well in the quarter hours. They weren’t exactly comedy wrestlers, so they deserved a spot higher up the card, but the point remains, you’ve got Hogan and Sting and Flair to carry the main event. No reason for them to begin feuding with Mysterio. It’s a waste of the ratings movers.
> 
> Once this little Jericho/OC thing finishes, I hope they move OC back to where he belongs.


Wcw died cause they couldn't create new talent - should've pushed cruiserweights up card
Cassidy is a superstar!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Orange Cassidy is a draw. Best for business, it seems


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nascar trending alongside confederate flag 

yeesh...stereotype confirmed much


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Trending over Nascar
> 
> takes some doing, aye?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270893656459878405











They Fucking Did It: Orange Cassidy Officially Signs...


On today's Being in the Elite it was announced that Orange Cassidy had officially signed a contract with AEW, this is the same man who put Tommy Dreamer in the hospital God damn it :mj2. Signing is announced at the 5:05 mark.




www.wrestlingforum.com





Reading back this thread is so fun. How some people were just hating for nothing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> They Fucking Did It: Orange Cassidy Officially Signs...
> 
> 
> On today's Being in the Elite it was announced that Orange Cassidy had officially signed a contract with AEW, this is the same man who put Tommy Dreamer in the hospital God damn it :mj2. Signing is announced at the 5:05 mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading back this thread is so fun. How some people were just hating for nothing.


lol! Thanks - that thread is the perfect time waster for the next hour


----------



## bdon

As I always say, I like OC, but if he’s going to be more comedy, he needs to be on the lower card. If you’re going to push him to the upper card, then he needs to take his matches more seriously.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> As I always say, I like OC, but if he’s going to be more comedy, he needs to be on the lower card. If you’re going to push him to the upper card, then he needs to take his matches more seriously.


Who says? What if his comedy draws more then everyone else?


----------



## bdon

If you push Orange Cassidy based solely on ratings and he remains a comedy don’t have a wrestling company. You have a comedy company.

Name one time in history when a comedy act was main eventing and treated like a FOTC.


----------



## 10gizzle

bdon said:


> If you push Orange Cassidy based solely on ratings and he remains a comedy don’t have a wrestling company. You have a comedy company.
> 
> Name one time in history when a comedy act was main eventing and treated like a FOTC.


I think he'll be a slow burn. They're going to build him up.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of him one thing is fact - he moves incredibly well. It looks good. He has that fluidity that translates to the screen. (As opposed to a Darby Allin who, although impressive, has a much rougher visual style)

From what I can tell he's not some super green/vanilla wrestler too. He's got some chops.

Its almost comical that he's getting over by being a lazy sloth who doesn't say anything and usually has his hands in his pockets.

I think as time goes on you'll get less and less of the lazy kicks and more and more of the silent underdog who shines during his matches.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> If you push Orange Cassidy based solely on ratings and he remains a comedy don’t have a wrestling company. You have a comedy company.
> 
> Name one time in history when a comedy act was main eventing and treated like a FOTC.


I don't agree cassidy is strictly a comedy act but if he can rake in millions I'd change name of company to the improv

to answer your question; gorgeous george


----------



## AEWMoxley

OC has obviously never been my cup of tea, but it's impossible to deny that the guy is over. He isn't bringing in any new fans, but he's very over with the current audience.

That's a good thing for the company. They need someone who can generate some interest in the undercard.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> If you push Orange Cassidy based solely on ratings and he remains a comedy don’t have a wrestling company. You have a comedy company.
> 
> Name one time in history when a comedy act was main eventing and treated like a FOTC.


John Cena


----------



## bdon

All of these names mentioned, did any of them avoid wrestling/fighting?

And @Pippen94, that thought you suggested is exactly why I fucking hated the Attitude Era, Vince McMahon bullshit cheap ratings grab with his “If it brings ratings, I’d let you fuck my wife on national TV!”

I am sure these fucks running things disagree with me, but I would not let Orange Cassidy change the culture of my goddamn company for a measly 50-100k ratings boost, not when there are at least potentially 2 million people willing to watch wrestling every week.

Cassidy as low-to-midcard act works.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> All of these names mentioned, did any of them avoid wrestling/fighting?
> 
> And @Pippen94, that thought you suggested is exactly why I fucking hated the Attitude Era, Vince McMahon bullshit cheap ratings grab with his “If it brings ratings, I’d let you fuck my wife on national TV!”
> 
> I am sure these fucks running things disagree with me, but I would not let Orange Cassidy change the culture of my goddamn company for a measly 50-100k ratings boost, not when there are at least *potentially 2 million people willing to watch wrestling every week.*
> 
> Cassidy as low-to-midcard act works.


?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

just look at the lastest uploads from wed

Mox, your champ, 147k / Cody title match 188k / FTR debut match 143k

OC / Jericho - 305k

then read the comments - a LOT of ‘this is the first time i hate Jericho’ and ‘how could he do that to OC’

and basically singing OCs praises

the fact is, some people here are acting like OC is the next Santino

while I firmly believe, OC is the next ‘yes movement’ Daniel Bryan - not in in-ring ability of course, but in sheer overness

and you’ll have it confirmed the next time there’s crowd / but it can already be seen on twitter and youtube

bookmark this post

edit> it’s like to dislike is also 437 to 7,600

which is 5% dislikes - it can’t even be argued people are hate watching / they’re just watching

i only saw one ‘pockets’ comment or ‘he can’t wrestle’ and the guy was torn to shreds


----------



## bdon

Congratulations, make him the fucking champ, and let the 750k or so viewers jackoff to the comedy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Congratulations, make him the fucking champ, and let the 750k or so viewers jackoff to the comedy.


i’m just presenting what i’m seeing 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AEWMoxley

305K views and he's the next Daniel Bryan? He's not even close to being in the top 2 most over guys on the roster, let alone being on Daniel Bryan 2013/2014 level.

This is what I mean by his overness being drastically overstated. He is certainly over, but he's not 2013/2014 Daniel Bryan. He's not even the most over guy on the roster.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This just deserves a post here based on the current convo


----------



## IamMark




----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This just deserves a post here based on the current convo


Yes. More of that, less of the not trying shit. There is a happy medium to be had where you can make him a great midcard act.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeesh, not great


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Yes. More of that, less of the not trying shit. There is a happy medium to be had where you can make him a great midcard act.


but, this is what he’s doing right now


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeesh, not great


Given what they put on last night, you’re surprised?

I know you defend it more stringently due to the negativity, but did you really find last night to be amazing television?


----------



## fabi1982

So thats the second lowest rating ever. Think cody being front and center does already made people leave...and this with the AEW fanboys in here „it was 75% great show“...thrown together shows will do that to your viewership...


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but, this is what he’s doing right now


He was just in a PPV with a world title shot on the line where he couldn’t figure out how to work a ladder, strictly for ha ha’s.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

OT but does anyone watch the challenge? It’s amazing how they are always in the top 5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Not Lying

They need to be more logical. The main event should not be a *very predictable *match. Throw Cody's match somewhere in the middle.
I tuned out both times during the main event the past couple of weeks because NXT had the more unpredictable match.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> So thats the second lowest rating ever. Think cody being front and center does already made people leave...and this with the AEW fanboys in here „it was 75% great show“...thrown together shows will do that to your viewership...


If you’re going to accept the responsibility of being on TV for 24 minutes and change, then you have to accept the responsibility of the failures. Dude was 25% of the show last night.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> If you’re going to accept the responsibility of being on TV for 24 minutes and change, then you have to accept the responsibility of the failures. Dude was 25% of the show last night.


But it was probably most watched


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> But it was probably most watched


Given what was on the card, outside of FTR’s match, I would hope it did the highest rating.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> If you’re going to accept the responsibility of being on TV for 24 minutes and change, then you have to accept the responsibility of the failures. Dude was 25% of the show last night.


And its like you always say, Cody already has his next storyline with Hager for the next couple weeks, Jericho get the big spot with Orange being oranged and fucks sake FTR get this awkward after match thing with the champs and the bucks looking all indy...Archer not seen, that stupid Dustin/QT story with Bunny...Brodi, oh I wont start...Hardy getting 10 mins...and your future is doing stupid skateboard stuff :/


----------



## Klitschko

Well that sucks.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> And its like you always say, Cody already has his next storyline with Hager for the next couple weeks, Jericho get the big spot with Orange being oranged and fucks sake FTR get this awkward after match thing with the champs and the bucks looking all indy...Archer not seen, that stupid Dustin/QT story with Bunny...Brodi, oh I wont start...Hardy getting 10 mins...and your future is doing stupid skateboard stuff :/


I’m glad you understand it.

I mean, your goddamn tag team champions, and 2 of your only 6-7 main event level single’s talents, don’t feel special at all. This coming after 3 months of a Moxley title reign that was bumped down for Cody’s TNT, etc.

It’s either bad booking, or someone with an ego.


----------



## Ozell Gray

So both NXT and Dynamite down big and only a 4k difference in viewers. This is where both will sit at in the 600-700k viewers range.


----------



## rexmundi

A bit disappointing. Cody's challenge hasn't been doing well, but I am not surprised with its complete predictability and Marq Quen. Could be worse though. AEW could be having a negative ppv bump like nxt did with Ratings Killer Kross. LOL.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Poor show

poor rating

massive L for nxt who have put on good shows last two weeks plus came off a takeover, they really should have won this weeks viewership.


----------



## rbl85

NXT losing viewers for the show after takeover is kind of sad.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> Poor show
> 
> poor rating
> 
> massive L for nxt who have put on good shows last two weeks plus came off a takeover, they really should have won this weeks viewership.


Last night NXT show wasn't better than AEW.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I’m glad you understand it.
> 
> I mean, your goddamn tag team champions, and 2 of your only 6-7 main event level single’s talents, don’t feel special at all. This coming after 3 months of a Moxley title reign that was bumped down for Cody’s TNT, etc.
> 
> It’s either bad booking, or someone with an ego.


Thats exactly what it was, not special and thats sad with everyone creaming their pants for the last 3 years about bucks/ftr...and how sad is that that I forgot about Mox, he I feel the most sad about, being midde of the show with a „trying to hard“ segment, where everyone knows how it will go...damn, this could actually be a good wresting show if it would have someone in the back knowing how to build a show, not just some characters, thats just making me sad...


----------



## fabi1982

And whats funny, now people come and make fun of NXT because god forbid to be honest and realize this rating for AEW is pure shit...keeping your blindfolds on...

and NXT wasby far the better show this week!!


----------



## Alright_Mate

AEW was trending last night, NXT wasn’t, plenty of comments on social media thinking AEW would get a high viewing figure because of this.

End up with 677k 

That’s what you get when you showcase your shittest superstars, that have no business being on television.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> AEW was trending last night, NXT wasn’t, plenty of comments on social media thinking AEW would get a high viewing figure because of this.
> 
> End up with 677k
> 
> *That’s what you get when you showcase your shittest superstars, that have no business being on television.*


During the previous weeks they did more or less the same ratings with their biggest stars….


----------



## NathanMayberry

Comedy wrestling doesn't draw? Shocking!


Every week I become more and more convinced that AEW's social media presence is manufactured, especially on Twitter where its so easy to buy bots.


----------



## RiverFenix

Well deserved.


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Well deserved.


Cody rHHHodes


----------



## AEWMoxley

What did you expect when the card was even worse than last week's, which already saw a substantial decline.


----------



## The Wood

I thought Orange Cassidy was supposed to be a "ratings draw?"


----------



## The XL 2

AEW does too much haha comedy bullshit. Comedy has its place but its impossible to take anything seriously on this show. A lot of the roster ranges from mediocre to atrocious too. Not good.

It just goes to show how hard it is to write even 2 hours of TV every week. Not giving WWE a pass, but AEW isn't exactly hitting it out of the park either. It's honestly incredible how much quality TV WWF and WCW gave us from 1996-2000, even if not everything was a home run and even if WCW flamed out in 1999. The big two companies right now can't even book a good episode of TV, let alone a good years worth.


----------



## rbl85

The number of stupid people on this forum is mind blowing…...


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Comedy wrestling doesn't draw? Shocking!
> 
> 
> Every week I become more and more convinced that AEW's social media presence is manufactured, especially on Twitter where its so easy to buy bots.


Looking at nxt ratings - straight wrestling draws even less


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> Looking at nxt ratings - straight wrestling draws even less


Straight wrestling right after a takeover


----------



## Pippen94

Disappointing numbers but Nxt coming off takeover is rotten.
With Fyter feast & live crowds returning won't get another chance


----------



## Pippen94

The XL 2 said:


> AEW does too much haha comedy bullshit. Comedy has its place but its impossible to take anything seriously on this show. A lot of the roster ranges from mediocre to atrocious too. Not good.
> 
> It just goes to show how hard it is to write even 2 hours of TV every week. Not giving WWE a pass, but AEW isn't exactly hitting it out of the park either. It's honestly incredible how much quality TV WWF and WCW gave us from 1996-2000, even if not everything was a home run and even if WCW flamed out in 1999. The big two companies right now can't even book a good episode of TV, let alone a good years worth.


Or maybe less ppl watch cable now days & both raw & nitro featured a lot of crap too.


----------



## EmbassyForever

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Well deserved.


This.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Given what they put on last night, you’re surprised?
> 
> I know you defend it more stringently due to the negativity, but did you really find last night to be amazing television?


i really enjoyed it - B show in my book

moved stories along and was easy watching

but i am easy to please - this is escapism for me + i love undercard guys and sometimes a bit of silliness

i really enjoyed the show 🤷‍♂️

i’ll definitely will be upfront about it when i don’t - i’ll never defend something if i didn’t like it, i just move on to stuff i like

edit> for instance, if there was a ps5 thread somewhere i would go all-in on Sony


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> He was just in a PPV with a world title shot on the line where he couldn’t figure out how to work a ladder, strictly for ha ha’s.


that was dumb, i‘ll give you that - the whole ladder match they played wrong with him / and i said as much

but his program with Y2J = his program with Pac IMO


----------



## Pippen94

Show was good last night - but going in was pretty lackluster card.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Show was good last night - but going in was pretty lackluster card.


the only thing i would’ve changed is the TNT title match should have been on first

there was no massive angle at the end of it and everybody knew Marq would have a great showing but lose

FTR match or even Jericho / OC could have been last


----------



## rbl85

The main event is not going to have a big incidence on a 2 hours show rating.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the only thing i would’ve changed is the TNT title match should have been on first
> 
> there was no massive angle at the end of it and everybody knew Marq would have a great showing but lose
> 
> FTR match or even Jericho / OC could have been last


Anybody from any company can compete for title - why not bill it a as mystery opponent & let ppl tune in to find out


----------



## Purple Haze

NXT was bad last night and AEW had a lacklustre card, so i expected the viewership loss


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Anybody from any company can compete for title - why not bill it a as mystery opponent & let ppl tune in to find out


i think that is what’ll happen between now and Fyter

Cody has to fight a couple of cans / or outsiders - but it can’t main event (unless its like Jeff Cobb)

maybe even one week on a Dark


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did you watch that match i posted?


No. I didn’t. I stopped watching Dark when it became pointless.


----------



## Prosper

We knew this would happen when the filler card was announced in the first place. You guys can't be this retarded. It was a terrible lineup for a show that ended up being a C+ show upon my 2nd watch in the end, but people didn't tune in from the jump because they thought nothing interesting was coming on. We were all saying that the show was going to be downright bad, and now that they actually proved people wrong and actually put on a decent C+ show, when we all thought it would be a throwaway in the first place, we now we have people meme posting and turning the decent parts of last night's show into reasons as to why the ratings went down? I mean what the fuck. Why do I even read these forums?

NXT coming off of Takeover with those kinds of numbers is bad. Especially when AEW made no effort to get people excited for the show this week. But NXT also advertised a filler episode. So we can't jump down their throats either if we are being serious here. I would like to have a real discussion about this shit without the meme posting but I guess I'm never going to get that from WF.


----------



## Christopher Near

I can't wait for new japan because at least people won't have to worry about ratings

Imagine if new japan was on cable and despite having a good show gets low ratings 

Ratings does not determine quality


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

a lot of news in the top 10 again

and Nascar - is nascar a thing now every wednesday?

i remember it trending alongside dynamite

@prosperwithdeen - what is the news situation in US at the moment? Still heavily riots dominated? Or something else

normally when the news goes down, AEW goes up


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a lot of news in the top 10 again
> 
> and Nascar - is nascar a thing now every wednesday?
> 
> i remember it trending alongside dynamite
> 
> @prosperwithdeen - what is the news situation in US at the moment? Still heavily riots dominated? Or something else
> 
> normally when the news goes down, AEW goes up


It's not as crazy as it was before, but people are still protesting. The riots and the looting aren't really happening anymore, its more on the peaceful end now. People looking for police reform and equality across the board. The news is still talking about it every minute of every day, but I don't think it played a part in AEW's low numbers this week. The card was just bad and they didn't make an effort to really get people to care much about watching. Even I was debating watching live. Next week's card looks a lot better though so I'm sure there will be an increase. NXT's card looks better next week too so they should also do better.


----------



## DaSlacker

Random question but when wrestling is head-to-head, is there any accurate evidence of mass 'cross sampling' i.e jumping back and forth between both shows. I ask because unless the viewership is calculated minute by minute, considering how few people have a Nielsen box, it must be incredibly difficult to calculate the difference between 2 shows from the exact same genre. 

I mean, prior 1995 (when wrestling ran unopposed) the ratings for both WWF and NWA/WCW's A and B shows were consistent with each other. They obviously had their fans, yet many viewers would have watched both promotions IMO. Then when Nitro arrived the number of people watching wrestling appeared to jump significantly. Yet Nitro is cancelled and Raw doesn't see an increase in viewers. I don't buy several million people just stopped watching wrestling in March 2001.

TNA runs opposite WWE in 2010 for a while. Yet Raw rates only a fraction lower than it was and when the 2nd Monday Night Wars is over, doesn't jump by much at all. I find it difficult to buy 1 million plus TNA viewers had completely stopped watching Raw in 2010.

Now NXT and AEW are neck and neck, but when NXT ran unopposed it only added 50,000 fans. I'd love to know exactly how many individual people are watching wrestling on a Wednesday night. We have a good with Mondays, but Wednesday is skewed.


----------



## RapShepard

I love how NXT is being thrown under the bus lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Nobody should be surprised. At all.

They need to do better in terms of promotion. I already mentioned what I felt they were doing wrong.

They need to realise a lot of their fans are not going to be following them on socials. You can advertise on Twitter all you want.

Advertise for the next week DURING Dynamite. End the show on a cliffhanger. Nobody was going to tune in to watch Cody vs Quen. But they would’ve watched for a confrontation between Moxley and Cage. If only they advertised that.

i don’t continue reading a book if I get to the end of a chapter and I feel there’s no reason to read the next chapter. A cliffhanger, an indication of what is to come; I’d continue reading. The same thing for tv shows and wrestling.

Even if the show is fully filler, you just need ONE promo/segment/match that isn’t. This weeks had the Moxley Cage confrontatio’; but they did not advertise it.


----------



## taker1986

Not surprised that it's down from last week, this was a weak card on paper but turned out to be a decent episode. I'm more surprised about NXT tanking after just coming off a PPV. I didn't expect AEW to win this week.

TV viewers is where AEW fell short this week. The show was no1 trend on twitter and they have good number of views on YouTube and when you look over reddit and every forum AEW always has far more people talking about it than even raw or SD. So pretty shit that it doesn't translate to TV viewers. I guess most people are streaming things now which obviously affects things and going up against NXT also sucks.

That said I think AEW will bounce back as we get nearer to Fyter Fest. I think if they play this right they can crack a million for these two special shows.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> Nobody should be surprised. At all.
> 
> They need to do better in terms of promotion. I already mentioned what I felt they were doing wrong.
> 
> They need to realise a lot of their fans are not going to be following them on socials. You can advertise on Twitter all you want.
> 
> Advertise for the next week DURING Dynamite. End the show on a cliffhanger. Nobody was going to tune in to watch Cody vs Quen. But they would’ve watched for a confrontation between Moxley and Cage. If only they advertised that.
> 
> i don’t continue reading a book if I get to the end of a chapter and I feel there’s no reason to read the next chapter. A cliffhanger, an indication of what is to come; I’d continue reading. The same thing for tv shows and wrestling.
> 
> Even if the show is fully filler, you just need ONE promo/segment/match that isn’t. This weeks had the Moxley Cage confrontatio’; but they did not advertise it.


Yeah I agree with this. Their promotion game needs to take a step up especially on a weekly live TV basis. When they get close to PPV's, their promotion has been great, but with these filler episodes its like non-existent. Next week looks good though.




taker1986 said:


> Not surprised that it's down from last week, this was a weak card on paper but turned out to be a decent episode. I'm more surprised about NXT tanking after just coming off a PPV. I didn't expect AEW to win this week.
> 
> *TV viewers is where AEW fell short this week. The show was no1 trend on twitter and they have good number of views on YouTube and when you look over reddit and every forum AEW always has far more people talking about it than even raw or SD. So pretty shit that it doesn't translate to TV viewers. I guess most people are streaming things now which obviously affects things and going up against NXT also sucks.*
> 
> That said I think AEW will bounce back as we get nearer to Fyter Fest. I think if they play this right they can crack a million for these two special shows.


This is a big reason why ratings talk is useless for the most part. I just like to follow because the hardcore fan in me keeps checking lol. A lot of people are just catching clips or highlights, especially when the show isn't advertised as "must-see live".



DaSlacker said:


> Random question but when wrestling is head-to-head, is there any accurate evidence of mass 'cross sampling' i.e jumping back and forth between both shows. I ask because unless the viewership is calculated minute by minute, considering how few people have a Nielsen box, it must be incredibly difficult to calculate the difference between 2 shows from the exact same genre.
> 
> I mean, prior 1995 (when wrestling ran unopposed) the ratings for both WWF and NWA/WCW's A and B shows were consistent with each other. They obviously had their fans, yet many viewers would have watched both promotions IMO. Then when Nitro arrived the number of people watching wrestling appeared to jump significantly. Yet Nitro is cancelled and Raw doesn't see an increase in viewers. I don't buy several million people just stopped watching wrestling in March 2001.
> 
> TNA runs opposite WWE in 2010 for a while. Yet Raw rates only a fraction lower than it was and when the 2nd Monday Night Wars is over, doesn't jump by much at all. I find it difficult to buy 1 million plus TNA viewers had completely stopped watching Raw in 2010.
> 
> Now NXT and AEW are neck and neck, but when NXT ran unopposed it only added 50,000 fans. I'd love to know exactly how many individual people are watching wrestling on a Wednesday night. We have a good with Mondays, but Wednesday is skewed.


I don't think the ratings system is that granular honestly. That would be tough to keep up with I think. People are changing channels like crazy flipping to everything on TV.


----------



## bdon

I think you’d be surprised how many people actually stopped watching wrestling when WCW ended. I know I did. My dad. A few friends. We grew up on NWA/WCW, where it was televised locally. It wasn’t until probably the early 90s when I even began to watch WWF.


----------



## Mike E

People need to realize that there are way more people watching NXT and AEW then this. So many people these days watch streams or torrents, I beg my friends to watch the show "legitimately" to show their support but its just not a thing anymore. Literally 85% of my friends don't have cable or satellite. Why pay when there are to many options to watch for free.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Looking at nxt ratings - straight wrestling draws even less


AEW spends millions more in marketing and on talent than NXT does. It should be crushing NXT by hundreds of thousands of viewers like it did for their premier.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Christopher Near said:


> I can't wait for new japan because at least people won't have to worry about ratings
> 
> Imagine if new japan was on cable and despite having a good show gets low ratings
> 
> Ratings does not determine quality


New Japan is boring


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> I love how NXT is being thrown under the bus lol


Shitting on NXT is the only thing AEW fans can do when it comes to ratings.

They certainly can't talk about AEW's ratings or viewership being good.


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> Shitting on NXT is the only thing AEW fans can do when it comes to ratings.
> 
> They certainly can't talk about AEW's ratings or viewership being good.


I air on the side of they're doing fine giving it's wrestling and it's hella unpopular. But it is funny there's no typical "woo hoo we won" lol


----------



## taker1986

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW spends millions more in marketing and on talent than NXT does. It should be crushing NXT by hundreds of thousands of viewers like it did for their premier.


WWE were promoting the hell out of NXT on Raw Monday night. There was 3 NXT promos during the first hour alone. AEW doesn't have that luxury to advertise on another show which draws over 1 and a half million viewers. NXT should've won this week against one of the weakest Dynamites we've ever had on paper. There's no excuses for NXT not to win this week.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW 14th NXT 35th and wide margin in the demo again.

I will admit Demo and Viewers should be higher for AEW. I think the show was solid last night but I agree with others that Cody vs Marq Quen shouldn't have main evented. It wasn't a bad match or anything and last weeks match was better. The TNT Title is being used as a way for Cody to work with some younger talent to get them exposure. Cody should open or start the 2nd hour next week if he still does a open challenge with his match with Hager coming up.


----------



## Pippen94

CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW 14th NXT 35th and wide margin in the demo again.
> 
> I will admit Demo and Viewers should be higher for AEW. I think the show was solid last night but I agree with others that Cody vs Marq Quen shouldn't have main evented. It wasn't a bad match or anything and last weeks match was better. Cody should open or start the 2nd hour next week if he still does a open challenge with his match with Hager coming up.


Cody was not losing to Marq or JB so little reason to watch


----------



## RiverFenix

People would be more pissed off tuning in to see the mystery opponent and it turning out to be Marq'Quen.

Cody is not a compelling wrestler in-ring, which is why he layers the shit out of his PPV matches with storylines on top of storylines.


----------



## Pippen94

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> People would be more pissed off tuning in to see the mystery opponent and it turning out to be Marq'Quen.
> 
> Cody is not a compelling wrestler in-ring, which is why he layers the shit out of his PPV matches with storylines on top of storylines.


Mystery opponent should be very outside company


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> People would be more pissed off tuning in to see the mystery opponent and it turning out to be Marq'Quen.
> 
> *Cody is not a compelling wrestler in-ring*, which is why he layers the shit out of his PPV matches with storylines on top of storylines.


I have to disagree here, i think that Cody became really one hell of a worker in the ring.


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> Mystery opponent should be very outside company


it look like next week it's going to be a mistery opponent .


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> it look like next week it's going to be a mistery opponent .


They steal my booking ideas


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Excuses excuses excuses

This is from 2014

Not the nineties


*
The June 19th edition of TNA IMPACT Wrestling drew a 1.01 rating, rounded to a 1.0 rating overall, up from last week’s 0.89 rating.

The show had an average viewership audience of 1,330,000 viewers, up from last week’s 1,010,000 viewers.*


----------



## Pippen94

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Excuses excuses excuses
> 
> This is from 2014
> 
> Not the nineties
> 
> 
> 
> *The June 19th edition of TNA IMPACT Wrestling drew a 1.01 rating, rounded to a 1.0 rating overall, up from last week’s 0.89 rating.
> 
> The show had an average viewership audience of 1,330,000 viewers, up from last week’s 1,010,000 viewers.*


Keeping living in past then


----------



## RainmakerV2

The show was garbage. Theyre getting close to WWE 2010 guest host era type shit with the constant comedy thrown into almost every segment.


----------



## One Shed

Bad card, goofy stuff, predicable main event, no hot angles teased. Why was Cage and Mox not the go off the air shot? You have to make your audience excited for the next show, not "Yeah Cody is definitely not losing this one."


----------



## The XL 2

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Excuses excuses excuses
> 
> This is from 2014
> 
> Not the nineties
> 
> 
> 
> *The June 19th edition of TNA IMPACT Wrestling drew a 1.01 rating, rounded to a 1.0 rating overall, up from last week’s 0.89 rating.
> 
> The show had an average viewership audience of 1,330,000 viewers, up from last week’s 1,010,000 viewers.*


Also, Batistas return in 2014 drew like 5 million viewers. All of these excuses are BS, no one is watching because the product is dying.


----------



## Pippen94

The XL 2 said:


> Also, Batistas return in 2014 drew like 5 million viewers. All of these excuses are BS, no one is watching because the product is dying.


Well there is a pandemic & ppl stream but hey if you want to watch same old creative there's always the network


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Well there is a pandemic & ppl stream but hey if you want to watch same old creative there's always the network


The pandemic isn't affecting ratings the way sycophants make it seem. Stop this myth.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Well there is a pandemic & ppl stream but hey if you want to watch same old creative there's always the network


Your efforts would be better suited to trying to find ways to improve AEW and the ratings instead of making excuses. When you're not calling people trolls (95% of your posts, troll) you're pretty good at making excuses and I feel like your effort is wasted.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I air on the side of they're doing fine giving it's wrestling and it's hella unpopular. But it is funny there's no typical "woo hoo we won" lol


well.... that is because we didn’t win


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ThenWo/WCW said:


> Excuses excuses excuses
> 
> This is from 2014
> 
> Not the nineties
> 
> 
> 
> *The June 19th edition of TNA IMPACT Wrestling drew a 1.01 rating, rounded to a 1.0 rating overall, up from last week’s 0.89 rating.
> 
> The show had an average viewership audience of 1,330,000 viewers, up from last week’s 1,010,000 viewers.*


yet, their highest PPv buy was 60k

GTFO with old TNA talk - its old hat - what are they doing today?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Fuck I love the AEW fans and their spin. God damn guys, why not just say "Hey the rating is shit this week hopefully AEW can do better next week"? Although with Billy Gunn Vs MJF and Cody Vs ? I can't see it getting too much bigger next week.



prosperwithdeen said:


> We knew this would happen when the filler card was announced in the first place.


Okay, you guys really need to stop with this "filler" nonsense. First it was filler segments, then it was filler matches now it's filler shows? A filler show is a show that doesn't add anything to the series in terms of story line or anything else and is usually a recap show. For example if AEW does a "Best of 2019-2020" Dynamite episode THAT would be filler. This wasn't a filler show, it furthered story lines and had fresh new content which is actually the opposite.



Lheurch said:


> Bad card, goofy stuff, predicable main event, no hot angles teased. Why was Cage and Mox not the go off the air shot? You have to make your audience excited for the next show, not "Yeah Cody is definitely not losing this one."


This.

Predictable matches throughout the show really. No chance was Cody losing, we knew The Inner Circle would take a loss to Orange Cassidy and that FTR would win their debut. The only unpredictable ones were Colt/Sammy and the women's match which nobody really cared about.



Pippen94 said:


> Well there is a pandemic & ppl stream but hey if you want to watch same old creative there's always the network


Ah the pandemic excuse.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yet, their highest PPv buy was 60k
> 
> GTFO with old TNA talk - its old hat - what are they doing today?


60k domestic. AEW’s highest domestic is barely that. They can’t even match ECW in that regard.

And TNA just snagged Miro out from under AEW.


----------



## thorn123

Damn shame about the rating...wrestling is dying and AEW just can’t get/keep enough eyes on the product. Dynamite isn’t perfect but it’s pretty damn good and is a lot better than many more popular shows on tv...My $0.02....there is nothing more AEW can do to match Raw and Smackdown numbers.....unless they can catch lightening in a bottle with a new Hogan, Austin or Rock.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fuck I love the AEW fans and their spin. God damn guys, why not just say "*Hey the rating is shit this week hopefully AEW can do better next week"?* Although with Billy Gunn Vs MJF and Cody Vs ? I can't see it getting too much bigger next week


that is what 90% said, and the rest was just discussion
i don’t think anybody sang the ratings’ praises this week


----------



## rbl85

I'm going to give you the quarters numbers and prepare yourself because nothing really make sense


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> I'm going to give you the quarters numbers and prepare yourself because nothing really make sense


I’m interested brah, I’m gonna assume that the only thing which gained viewers was BF vs IC


----------



## The Wood

People spend way too much time analyzing the current viewership numbers up close. There are still 80 million people with cable in the United States. When you're looking at estimated Nielsen numbers like 750k, you're talking about a few people with boxes. Seriously. This isn't like Nitro vs. Raw where you had these giant TV audiences and and wrestling was being watched in almost 10% of homes. You could do something with those numbers. Dynamite vs. NXT is almost too small to be able to talk about any sort of pattern reliably.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I'm going to give you the quarters numbers and prepare yourself because nothing really make sense


this i gotta see - womans tag = most gains


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> I’m interested brah, I’m gonna assume that the only thing which gained viewers was BF vs IC


Not really but only 2 quarters saw gain in viewers.

Q1 : FTR vs. Butcher & Blade : 760K (more than the Q1 of NXT which is strange because lately NXT often had a bigger Q1 and this week was just after takeover)
Q2 : the ending of FTR vs. Butcher & Blade, the in-ring with Butcher & Blade and Young Bucks and ensuing multiple team brawl and backstage interview with Dustin Rhodes, Brandi Rhodes, Q.T. Marshall and The Bunny : 730k (loss of 30K that i think you can heavily put on the backstage interview)
Q3 : Kris Statlander & Hikaru Shida vs. Penelope Ford & Nyla Rose, plus Darby Allin & Tony Hawk and a Britt Baker workout comedy bit : 704K (loss of 26k)
Q4 : Best Friends & Orange Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Jake Hager : 652K (loss of 52K)
Q5 : Ending of Best Friends & Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Hager and the post-match with Chris Jericho and the oranges, MJF and Billy Gunn and the beginning of Sammy Guevara vs. Colt Cabana : 671K (gain of 19K)
Q6 : Ending of Guevara vs. Cabana, the Dark Order coming out, Guevara in-ring with Matt Hardy, a Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Cabana going into Brodie Lee’s dressing room : 654K (loss of 17K)
Q7 : look at next week’s show, Jon Moxley, Taz and Brian Cage in a parking lot brawl and the beginning of Cody vs. Quen : 612K (loss of 42K, lowest quarter ever ?)
Q8 : Cody vs. Quen and the post-match : 632K (gain of 20K viewers)

The janella/Kiss vignette losing less viewers than the Mox promo and brawl with Cage.....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Not really but only 2 quarters saw gain in viewers.
> 
> Q1 : FTR vs. Butcher & Blade : 760K (more than the Q1 of NXT which is strange because lately NXT often had a bigger Q1 and this week was just after takeover)
> Q2 : the ending of FTR vs. Butcher & Blade, the in-ring with Butcher & Blade and Young Bucks and ensuing multiple team brawl and backstage interview with Dustin Rhodes, Brandi Rhodes, Q.T. Marshall and The Bunny : 730k (loss of 30K that i think you can heavily put on the backstage interview)
> Q3 : Kris Statlander & Hikaru Shida vs. Penelope Ford & Nyla Rose, plus Darby Allin & Tony Hawk and a Britt Baker workout comedy bit : 704K (loss of 26k)
> Q4 : Best Friends & Orange Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Jake Hager : 652K (loss of 52K)
> Q5 : Ending of Best Friends & Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Hager and the post-match with Chris Jericho and the oranges, MJF and Billy Gunn and the beginning of Sammy Guevara vs. Colt Cabana : 671K (gain of 19K)
> Q6 : Ending of Guevara vs. Cabana, the Dark Order coming out, Guevara in-ring with Matt Hardy, a Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Cabana going into Brodie Lee’s dressing room : 654K (loss of 17K)
> Q7 : look at next week’s show, Jon Moxley, Taz and Brian Cage in a parking lot brawl and the beginning of Cody vs. Quen : 612K (loss of 42K, lowest quarter ever ?)
> Q8 : Cody vs. Quen and the post-match : 632K (gain of 20K viewers)
> 
> The janella/Kiss vignette losing less viewers than the Mox promo and brawl with Cage.....


geez....

the only thing i can see is, people tuned in to see FTRs debut, maybe WWE fans and tuned out after gradually?

Mox / Cage losing so many doesn’t make sense


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> geez....
> 
> the only thing i can see is, people tuned in to see FTRs debut, maybe WWE fans and tuned out after gradually?
> 
> Mox / Cage losing so many doesn’t make sense




AEW needs to learn to not put the world champ segment on dead time slot. They could easily started the show with promo and beatdown. You don't hide this less then 4 minute segment in middle of quarter 7. 


Where people can miss it easily. Leading into this segment they had Janela/Kiss video package and preview for next week matches. So it's easy to turn channel and miss this segment. 


Considering they had highest rated segment last week . When they had build up for it following Cage squash match. I'm betting people changed channel already and miss it. Especially since it's not like in quarter 6 they promoted it and said up next World Champ Jon Moxley speaks. The segment just popped up middle of quarter 7.


----------



## rbl85

Nobody knew that FTR would open the show so no i don't think that 760K tuned in to see FTR debut


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> AEW needs to learn to not put the world champ segment on dead time slot. They could easily started the show with promo and beatdown. You don't hide this less then 4 minute segment in middle of quarter 7.


Yeah they have to really precise at what time/moment your world champ is going to appear


----------



## Not Lying

Mox/Cage should have ended the show, a more interesting cliff-hanger on what would Mox do next to get revenge.. but nah lets have a 20min predictable main event. Although to give credit, both Cody's matches ended up gaining viewers, but not really that significant.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Mox/Cage should have ended the show, a more interesting cliff-hanger on what would Mox do next to get revenge.. but nah lets have a 20min predictable main event. Although to give credit, both Cody's matches ended up gaining viewers, *but not really that significant.*


You can put whoever you want in the main event, it's not going to have a 100K viewers gain. Unless if you have been building this maint event for a few weeks.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> You can put whoever you want in the main event, it's not going to have a 100K viewers gain. Unless if you have been building this maint event for a few weeks.


Mox is their biggest draw. He should be in the main event 3/4 shows. Doing Good stuff everytime.

Hell Mox should be used twice. Once in the first 30min to promote his Main event stuff.

That's how I remember Cena becoming a big star anws in 2005. Come in, draw fans in from the begining, and bring them back to the main event.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Mox is their biggest draw. He should be in the main event 3/4 shows. Doing Good stuff everytime.


Mox have been in the main event a couple of times and he never got a huge rating bump.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

So we are in agreeement that AEW is off with timing?

Moxley should be opening and closing the show regularly.
This week they could’ve done it with the brawl at the beginning - Moxley taken away in cuffs [with Taz making some BS excuse to get Cage excused from the same treatment], Cage in the main event against someone, Moxley coming back and brawling to end the show.
And through the show, segments of Moxleys journey from being taken away in cuffs - like being written up, put in a jail etc.


----------



## rbl85

I think their logic is that people will continue to watch the show because Moxley can appear at any moment.

The thing is you're not going to wait possibly an hour just to see 5min of Moxley, if he was the Rock that would work but he's not The Rock.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> I think their logic is that people will continue to watch the show because Moxley can appear at any moment.
> 
> The thing is you're not going to wait possibly an hour just to see 5min of Moxley, if he was the Rock that would work but he's not The Rock.


Nobody is at the level of The Rock anymore.
But you can’t just say “well hey he’s no rock or Austin so let’s not do anything with him”. that’s how to not build stars.


----------



## Aewwe

rbl85 said:


> Not really but only 2 quarters saw gain in viewers.
> 
> Q1 : FTR vs. Butcher & Blade : 760K (more than the Q1 of NXT which is strange because lately NXT often had a bigger Q1 and this week was just after takeover)
> Q2 : the ending of FTR vs. Butcher & Blade, the in-ring with Butcher & Blade and Young Bucks and ensuing multiple team brawl and backstage interview with Dustin Rhodes, Brandi Rhodes, Q.T. Marshall and The Bunny : 730k (loss of 30K that i think you can heavily put on the backstage interview)
> Q3 : Kris Statlander & Hikaru Shida vs. Penelope Ford & Nyla Rose, plus Darby Allin & Tony Hawk and a Britt Baker workout comedy bit : 704K (loss of 26k)
> Q4 : Best Friends & Orange Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Jake Hager : 652K (loss of 52K)
> Q5 : Ending of Best Friends & Cassidy vs. Santana & Ortiz & Hager and the post-match with Chris Jericho and the oranges, MJF and Billy Gunn and the beginning of Sammy Guevara vs. Colt Cabana : 671K (gain of 19K)
> Q6 : Ending of Guevara vs. Cabana, the Dark Order coming out, Guevara in-ring with Matt Hardy, a Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Cabana going into Brodie Lee’s dressing room : 654K (loss of 17K)
> Q7 : look at next week’s show, Jon Moxley, Taz and Brian Cage in a parking lot brawl and the beginning of Cody vs. Quen : 612K (loss of 42K, lowest quarter ever ?)
> Q8 : Cody vs. Quen and the post-match : 632K (gain of 20K viewers)
> 
> The janella/Kiss vignette losing less viewers than the Mox promo and brawl with Cage.....


Interesting, thanks. If you get the chance, could you provide the NXT breakdown like you did last week for comparison?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Look, I've said this a hundred times before but AEW doesn't know what they're doing with a TV show because they don't have anybody there that's ever written televised wrestling before or ANY TV show before. They don't even know basic concepts like start out hot, end with something compelling etc. So yeah, it's really easy to tune out and continue to tune out when the first 20 minutes of every AEW show is some match that is entirely too long.

Lets compare, AEW's first 30 minutes this week was a recap video and then a back and forth match between your two new hot signings and what is pretty much a jobber/midcard team. We also got Dustin and QT Marshall promo.

Here is how I'd do it:

- Segment #1: AEW Dynamite opening video (30 seconds)

- Segment #2: Recap video from last week of Cody retaining his championship against Jungle Boy (30 seconds)

- Segment #3: Announcers introduction and hype tonight's show, we're going to see Cody Vs Marq Quen in the main event and FTR will be on later tonight as well PLUS Moxley has something to say TONIGHT in the ring but right now we're going to cut backstage where Cody Rhodes is just arriving (90 seconds)

- Segment #4: Cody, Dustin, QT and Brandi all arrive. Cody shines the most in this segment, puts Quen over saying he's this great up and comer and can't wait to wrestle him tonight. Dustin and Brandi express concern about QT's relationship with Allie but QT demands that everything is fine and he wants the situation dropped (60 seconds)

- Match #1: Best Friends & Orange Cassidy defeat The Inner Circle W/ Sammy Guevara (8 minutes match time, two minutes entrances)

- Segment #5: Post match The Inner Circle jump Best Friends & Cassidy 4 on 3. Jericho comes down with the baseball bat after the match as The Inner Circle hold Orange Cassidy up as Jericho repeatedly hits Orange Cassidy with it causing him to bleed. We fade to commercial break with Jericho and The Inner Circle standing triumphant over a bleeding Orange Cassidy (2 minutes)

- Commercial (2-3 minutes)

- Segment #6: We return from commercial where Orange Cassidy is being loaded into an ambulance by paramedics and AEW agents. The announcers send the backstage announcer with Orange and promise us an update if they can get one.(1 minute)

- Segment #7: Jon Moxley arrives at a different part of the arena, announcers hype that Moxley has something to say later tonight. Stay tuned because the man is NOT happy (30 seconds)

- Segment #8: Britt Baker video package but it's a newly filmed segment of Baker being demanding towards Rebel. Rebel seems reluctant as Britt Baker continues to state "I'm hurt! How dare you not help me!" (1 minute)

- Match #2: Matt Hardy defeats Kip Sabian W/ Penelope Ford (Four minute match, two minute entrance) (As this match ends we cut to commercials with JR saying that once we return from commercial Tony Schiavone will be interviewing MJF. Stay tuned to see what he says!)

- Commercial (2-3 minutes)

---

So look at this objectively:

- Our announce team has promised a number of interesting segments today in Moxley appearing, the debut of FTR, plus a title match tonight featuring Cody.

- We're starting the show off hot with one of AEW's biggest stars in Cody plus you have Dustin who is recognisable there also. Cody puts over his opponent tonight (Building interest in the match hopefully) plus getting the fact that Brandi and Dustin don't trust Allie over.

- Within the first 3 1/2 minutes we're cutting to the match but instead of it being really long it's instead a hot little opener that is being given 10 minutes total. Orange Cassidy is apparently a big ratings draw plus you've got Swagger in there as well who is a name to the wrestling fans around the world (Not a big name but still a name).

- We finish the first match and immediately there is drama with Jericho kicking the shit out of Cassidy and putting him in the hospital with a baseball bat in a heinous 5 on 3 attack. We're cutting to commercial with the drama so people will sit through the commercial because they want to know what on earth is going to happen next.

- Fuck back from commercial and Orange Cassidy is off to hospital? Fuck Jericho for doing this to him. Alex Marvez is going with Orange though and could provide an update before the show is over...better stay tuned for that update on Orange.

- Moxley arrives looking pissed off and he has something to say tonight, better stay tuned to see what on earth he has to say.

- Britt Baker plays a bitch well so we get the brief update from her. She's not really going to bring people in but she's not annoying enough that people will change the channel. We keep it short, punchy and entertaining with NO comedy.

- After that we're into a Matt Hardy match and despite it being a quick match we can have the announcers talk about Matt saying he respected Sammy last week and questioning what on earth is going on with Matt. Matt Hardy is a name and when he isn't being a comedy goof he can gain interest so he's perfect here. Also, we have AEW's hottest girl in this segment also.

- Once we return from break we're going to hear from MJF who again is a talented guy who people love to hate so they won't turn the channel despite it being a time that most people channel surf because they don't want to miss what he has to say.

---

So if you notice I have a big star in every quarter even if they're not doing much, I have a good amount of drama in the opening 30 minutes and the matches are short and to the point. We also have a couple of things we're building towards later in the show such as an Orange Cassidy update, a word from Jon Moxley, FTR in ring debut plus Cody Rhodes Vs Marq Quen.

That's your first half hour, your top of the hour has Moxley making his way to the ring so that people don't change the channel and your final quarter for the night is going to be the FTR in ring debut followed by The Bucks, Kenny/Page and FTR all facing off teasing a big three way feud or whatever it is they're trying to tease because it's different than what we saw last week which was Cody celebrating like he won Olympic Gold.


----------



## Not Lying

I would like to see AEW also do some more interesting and weird Main events.

For example: Hager/Cage vs Mox/Cody. That's why I don't want Cody handicapped with doing predictable matches every week.

Bring different elements of the show together. Make it all someway connected.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> I would like to see AEW also do some more interesting and weird Main events.
> 
> For example: Hager/Cage vs Mox/Cody. That's why I don't want Cody handicapped with doing predictable matches every week.
> 
> Bring different elements of the show together.


Teddy Long tag team matches? Not for me tbh. Especially if it starts becoming frequent.

Idk why they haven’t done MJF and Wardlow vs Jurassic Express in all honesty.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> Teddy Long tag team matches? Not for me tbh. Especially if it starts becoming frequent.
> 
> Idk why they haven’t done MJF and Wardlow vs Jurassic Express in all honesty.


Not frequent. But every now and then, and you have Hager with recent history with Mox as well.

Idk what they're waiting for to showcase Luchasaurus more. He should be world champion within the next 18 months.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> Not frequent. But every now and then, and you have Hager with recent history with Mox as well.
> 
> Idk what they're waiting for to showcase Luchasaurus more. He should be world champion within the next 18 months.


I can’t disagree with you there. I think they are mishandling luchasaurus, Archer, Brodie, MJF and Wardlow (although ill be a bit patient with these 2) like crazy.

lucha, archer, Brodie should be peak Abyss level by now. Give them storylines and book them properly.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> I can’t disagree with you there. I think they are mishandling luchasaurus, Archer, Brodie, MJF and Wardlow (although ill be a bit patient with these 2) like crazy.
> 
> lucha, archer, Brodie should be peak Abyss level by now. Give them storylines and book them properly.


I'm hoping at All Out we'll have some sort monster brawl with Archer, Wardlow, Luchasaurus and Brodie or Cage. Once you put all these monsters in more prominent TV time ahead of the biggest show of the year, it would be hard to take it back again. So hopefully they do and keep going strong with Luchasaurus.
Just a simple story of who is the biggest and baddest.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Look, I've said this a hundred times before but AEW doesn't know what they're doing with a TV show because they don't have anybody there that's ever written televised wrestling before or ANY TV show before. They don't even know basic concepts like start out hot, end with something compelling etc. So yeah, it's really easy to tune out and continue to tune out when the first 20 minutes of every AEW show is some match that is entirely too long.
> 
> Lets compare, AEW's first 30 minutes this week was a recap video and then a back and forth match between your two new hot signings and what is pretty much a jobber/midcard team. We also got Dustin and QT Marshall promo.
> 
> Here is how I'd do it:
> 
> - Segment #1: AEW Dynamite opening video (30 seconds)
> 
> - Segment #2: Recap video from last week of Cody retaining his championship against Jungle Boy (30 seconds)
> 
> - Segment #3: Announcers introduction and hype tonight's show, we're going to see Cody Vs Marq Quen in the main event and FTR will be on later tonight as well PLUS Moxley has something to say TONIGHT in the ring but right now we're going to cut backstage where Cody Rhodes is just arriving (90 seconds)
> 
> - Segment #4: Cody, Dustin, QT and Brandi all arrive. Cody shines the most in this segment, puts Quen over saying he's this great up and comer and can't wait to wrestle him tonight. Dustin and Brandi express concern about QT's relationship with Allie but QT demands that everything is fine and he wants the situation dropped (60 seconds)
> 
> - Match #1: Best Friends & Orange Cassidy defeat The Inner Circle W/ Sammy Guevara (8 minutes match time, two minutes entrances)
> 
> - Segment #5: Post match The Inner Circle jump Best Friends & Cassidy 4 on 3. Jericho comes down with the baseball bat after the match as The Inner Circle hold Orange Cassidy up as Jericho repeatedly hits Orange Cassidy with it causing him to bleed. We fade to commercial break with Jericho and The Inner Circle standing triumphant over a bleeding Orange Cassidy (2 minutes)
> 
> - Commercial (2-3 minutes)
> 
> - Segment #6: We return from commercial where Orange Cassidy is being loaded into an ambulance by paramedics and AEW agents. The announcers send the backstage announcer with Orange and promise us an update if they can get one.(1 minute)
> 
> - Segment #7: Jon Moxley arrives at a different part of the arena, announcers hype that Moxley has something to say later tonight. Stay tuned because the man is NOT happy (30 seconds)
> 
> - Segment #8: Britt Baker video package but it's a newly filmed segment of Baker being demanding towards Rebel. Rebel seems reluctant as Britt Baker continues to state "I'm hurt! How dare you not help me!" (1 minute)
> 
> - Match #2: Matt Hardy defeats Kip Sabian W/ Penelope Ford (Four minute match, two minute entrance) (As this match ends we cut to commercials with JR saying that once we return from commercial Tony Schiavone will be interviewing MJF. Stay tuned to see what he says!)
> 
> - Commercial (2-3 minutes)
> 
> ---
> 
> So look at this objectively:
> 
> - Our announce team has promised a number of interesting segments today in Moxley appearing, the debut of FTR, plus a title match tonight featuring Cody.
> 
> - We're starting the show off hot with one of AEW's biggest stars in Cody plus you have Dustin who is recognisable there also. Cody puts over his opponent tonight (Building interest in the match hopefully) plus getting the fact that Brandi and Dustin don't trust Allie over.
> 
> - Within the first 3 1/2 minutes we're cutting to the match but instead of it being really long it's instead a hot little opener that is being given 10 minutes total. Orange Cassidy is apparently a big ratings draw plus you've got Swagger in there as well who is a name to the wrestling fans around the world (Not a big name but still a name).
> 
> - We finish the first match and immediately there is drama with Jericho kicking the shit out of Cassidy and putting him in the hospital with a baseball bat in a heinous 5 on 3 attack. We're cutting to commercial with the drama so people will sit through the commercial because they want to know what on earth is going to happen next.
> 
> - Fuck back from commercial and Orange Cassidy is off to hospital? Fuck Jericho for doing this to him. Alex Marvez is going with Orange though and could provide an update before the show is over...better stay tuned for that update on Orange.
> 
> - Moxley arrives looking pissed off and he has something to say tonight, better stay tuned to see what on earth he has to say.
> 
> - Britt Baker plays a bitch well so we get the brief update from her. She's not really going to bring people in but she's not annoying enough that people will change the channel. We keep it short, punchy and entertaining with NO comedy.
> 
> - After that we're into a Matt Hardy match and despite it being a quick match we can have the announcers talk about Matt saying he respected Sammy last week and questioning what on earth is going on with Matt. Matt Hardy is a name and when he isn't being a comedy goof he can gain interest so he's perfect here. Also, we have AEW's hottest girl in this segment also.
> 
> - Once we return from break we're going to hear from MJF who again is a talented guy who people love to hate so they won't turn the channel despite it being a time that most people channel surf because they don't want to miss what he has to say.
> 
> ---
> 
> So if you notice I have a big star in every quarter even if they're not doing much, I have a good amount of drama in the opening 30 minutes and the matches are short and to the point. We also have a couple of things we're building towards later in the show such as an Orange Cassidy update, a word from Jon Moxley, FTR in ring debut plus Cody Rhodes Vs Marq Quen.
> 
> That's your first half hour, your top of the hour has Moxley making his way to the ring so that people don't change the channel and your final quarter for the night is going to be the FTR in ring debut followed by The Bucks, Kenny/Page and FTR all facing off teasing a big three way feud or whatever it is they're trying to tease because it's different than what we saw last week which was Cody celebrating like he won Olympic Gold.


Even if it doesn't make higher ratings cutting match time significantly gives you the chance to add more people and story building


----------



## rbl85

Aewwe said:


> Interesting, thanks. If you get the chance, could you provide the NXT breakdown like you did last week for comparison?


The NXT breakdown is on the NXT thread.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> Even if it doesn't make higher ratings cutting match time significantly gives you the chance to add more people and story building


It makes the show "Can't miss" because if you channel surf you might miss something important. I think the style like I wrote above would build viewership but most importantly people wouldn't be leaving. 

If AEW could start getting that "Anything can happen" feeling going as well that'd be really beneficial.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> It makes the show "Can't miss" because if you channel surf you might miss something important. I think the style like I wrote above would build viewership but most importantly people wouldn't be leaving.
> 
> If AEW could start getting that "Anything can happen" feeling going as well that'd be really beneficial.


I think that's what they're trying to do with Mox but they're for the moment pretty bad at it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> AEW needs to learn to not put the world champ segment on dead time slot. They could easily started the show with promo and beatdown. You don't hide this less then 4 minute segment in middle of quarter 7.
> 
> 
> Where people can miss it easily. Leading into this segment they had Janela/Kiss video package and preview for next week matches. So it's easy to turn channel and miss this segment.
> 
> 
> Considering they had highest rated segment last week . When they had build up for it following Cage squash match. I'm betting people changed channel already and miss it. Especially since it's not like in quarter 6 they promoted it and said up next World Champ Jon Moxley speaks. The segment just popped up middle of quarter 7.


that is fair - thinking about the show in general

starting with the Mox segment, into the title match and ending with FTR match would’ve maybe been better


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> So we are in agreeement that AEW is off with timing?
> 
> Moxley should be opening and closing the show regularly.
> This week they could’ve done it with the brawl at the beginning - Moxley taken away in cuffs [with Taz making some BS excuse to get Cage excused from the same treatment], Cage in the main event against someone, Moxley coming back and brawling to end the show.
> And through the show, segments of Moxleys journey from being taken away in cuffs - like being written up, put in a jail etc.


yah, agreed - as mentioned, i enjoyed the show

but from a ratings point of view, they would’ve benefitted from having it all in a different order

but i am playing armchair exec


----------



## thorn123

Well I enjoyed the show...just as fun as JYD v the 🔨


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yah, agreed - as mentioned, i enjoyed the show
> 
> but from a ratings point of view, they would’ve benefitted from having it all in a different order
> 
> but i am playing armchair exec


Yeah for sure. But they’re just starting. So with time they’ll learn.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The worst is that next week sounds boring as hell...outside the misterious opponent against Cody i am not excited for any match..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah for sure. But they’re just starting. So with time they’ll learn.


agreed

for all i know next time they do it like that and it bombs


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah for sure. But they’re just starting. So with time they’ll learn.


How to format a TV show should be something you know how to do before you get a TV show. It's not something you learn on the job.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> How to format a TV show should be something you know how to do before you get a TV show. It's not something you learn on the job.


Yet... here we are


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> How to format a TV show should be something you know how to do before you get a TV show. It's not something you learn on the job.


Agreed. It is crazy that they don’t understand how to structure this shit.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yet... here we are


Thanks for your well thought out response.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ProjectGargano said:


> The worst is that next week sounds boring as hell...outside the misterious opponent against Cody i am not excited for any match..


Unless the mystery opponent is a returning face or a new character it's going to be a let down. Imagine Luchasaurus wanders out or something...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> How to format a TV show should be something you know how to do before you get a TV show. It's not something you learn on the job.


they won't immediately know what fans want before starting off bro, don't be so ignorant.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Thanks for your well thought out response.


just the truth 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> they won't immediately know what fans want before starting off bro, don't be so ignorant.


You have no idea what you are talking about.

Formatting isn't something you just pick up and it's not audience specific. They don't need time to find out what kind of format the wrestling fans like, are you serious?


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Formatting isn't something you just pick up and it's not audience specific. They don't need time to find out what kind of format the wrestling fans like, are you serious?


And what format the wrestling fans like ?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> they won't immediately know what fans want before starting off bro, don't be so ignorant.


What’s ignorant is pretending that formats — both for TV and wrestling, specifically — haven’t been in use for decades. It’s absolutely insane to suggest the wheel needs to be reinvented every time something starts up. This is a sure-fire way to make sure you start off well on the back foot. It should also disqualify anyone from that job. Film students and general fans would be better equipped to take on this project. That’s not a good thing.

So, can we kill the myth that anything on the show, inherently and particularly, is a “draw?” The ratings are rather arbitrary, getting more out of placement than anyone being involved. Jericho “lost viewers,” Mox “lost viewers,” Orange Cassidy “lost viewers.” It’s trivial, but even if you did want to read into two people with boxes switching off, at the best we can determine that if AEW had anyone magic, they don’t anymore. Jericho, Mox — no one is a “draw.” That we are having discussions about the common sense place to put your “stars” is evidence enough of that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> just the truth 🤷‍♂️












whoops! 

Looking forward to playing the first AEW video game on this jawn.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> And what format the wrestling fans like ?


I formatted the show and posted how I'd have booked the first 30 minutes of this past weeks Dynamite on the page previous. Go check it out, that's something I think AEW fans and wrestling fans as a whole would be really into as opposed to a long match and a tame segment.


----------



## bdon

The only issues I have with everyone having 15+ minute matches is A) it eats time for those needing to be featured and B) not everyone is good enough to put together 15 minutes of quality in-ring action.


----------



## The Wood

If you can’t do 15 minutes on the fly, you shouldn’t be allowed to put together a 15-minute match.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> The only issues I have with everyone having 15+ minute matches is A) it eats time for those needing to be featured and B) not everyone is good enough to put together 15 minutes of quality in-ring action.


It's not even that, some guys just don't need a 15 minute segment. Big announcement? Big championship match? Feud ending match? Sure, all valid reasons for a longer match. Kenny and Hangman wanting to have a long back and forth for no reason? Not so much.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> What’s ignorant is pretending that formats — both for TV and wrestling, specifically — haven’t been in use for decades. It’s absolutely insane to suggest the wheel needs to be reinvented every time something starts up. This is a sure-fire way to make sure you start off well on the back foot. It should also disqualify anyone from that job. Film students and general fans would be better equipped to take on this project. That’s not a good thing.
> 
> So, can we kill the myth that anything on the show, inherently and particularly, is a “draw?” The ratings are rather arbitrary, getting more out of placement than anyone being involved. Jericho “lost viewers,” Mox “lost viewers,” Orange Cassidy “lost viewers.” It’s trivial, but even if you did want to read into two people with boxes switching off, at the best we can determine that if AEW had anyone magic, they don’t anymore. Jericho, Mox — no one is a “draw.” That we are having discussions about the common sense place to put your “stars” is evidence enough of that.


AEW doesn't have anyone that can draw and thats one of their issues along with Cody Rhodes hogging the spotlight and booking himself into the main storylines. Chris Jericho isn't drawing viewers, Matt Hardy was never a draw, and Moxley's title reign has been a bust since hes won it. Moxley's booking has been terrible since Revolution.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> The only issues I have with everyone having 15+ minute matches is A) it eats time for those needing to be featured and B) not everyone is good enough to put together 15 minutes of quality in-ring action.


This Week the FTR vs BB lasted 10min and 19s
The women tag match : 10min01.
Best friend/OC vs IC : 10min01
Guevara vs Cabana : 7min25
Cody vs Quen : 11min40


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> This Week the FTR vs BB lasted 10min and 19s
> The women tag match : 10min01.
> Best friend/OC vs IC : 10min01
> Guevara vs Cabana : 7min25
> Cody vs Quen : 11min40


And a few people even commented on this, stating that while the show was a miss, it was nice to see they had listened in cutting down on match times and giving more vignette/promo time.

Just because the vignettes, promos, post match segments, and backstage stuff they aired failed to connect this week, doesn’t mean it always will. I appreciated the effort, although I’m pretty sure I failed to make that clear in my anger for goddamn QT, MJF being wasted, etc.

But it was a step in the right direction. Just get the correct stories together now with the right faces seeing more TV time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 87662
> 
> 
> whoops!
> 
> Looking forward to playing the first AEW video game on this jawn.


lol! Good lad!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW doesn't have anyone that can draw and thats one of their issues along with Cody Rhodes hogging the spotlight and booking himself into the main storylines. Chris Jericho isn't drawing viewers, Matt Hardy was never a draw, and Moxley's title reign has been a bust since hes won it. Moxley's booking has been terrible since Revolution.


Oddly the two biggest ratings jumps in 2020 were due to Matt Hardy, the Raw where he came back for revenge on Orton and then his Dynamite debut. I personally can't stand the guy, I have NEVER understood what folks like about him. He was always the Jannetty/Rick Steiner of that team.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Oddly the two biggest ratings jumps in 2020 were due to Matt Hardy, the Raw where he came back for revenge on Orton and then his Dynamite debut. I personally can't stand the guy, I have NEVER understood what folks like about him. He was always the Jannetty/Rick Steiner of that team.


He drew for his debut no doubt about that but he hasn't drawn since then.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A friday night after midnight repeat - 6/6 - got this from twitter. not sure of validity


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> A friday night after midnight repeat - 6/6 - got this from twitter. not sure of validity
> 
> View attachment 87664


Awesome.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> A friday night after midnight repeat - 6/6 - got this from twitter. not sure of validity
> 
> View attachment 87664


Well that puts things into perspective. I think I’m done talking about ratings after reading that. People are watching replays, watching streams, watching YouTube clips. None of this shit is accurate enough for a real conversation. We don’t know shit about anything and I honestly don’t care anymore.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well that puts things into perspective. I think I’m done talking about ratings after reading that. People are watching replays, watching streams, watching YouTube clips. None of this shit is accurate enough for a real conversation. We don’t know shit about anything and I honestly don’t care anymore.


100% fookin agree

not being in the USA i normally checked this for fun and for some perspective

but the world has moved on and is watching different

the audience is still there and they are watching

filling up arenas wouldn’t have been possible otherwise

i mean, this was the same as a 3rd of their normal audience, on a friday after midnight

which is why i believe they dropped the little tidbit of a 1.18 in the overnight DVRs on BTE / there’s more numbers of importance that we are not seeing


----------



## The Wood

The arenas are being filled because the hardcore audience is the most disenfranchised and mobilised it has ever been. It’s got nothing to do with their TV or product awareness.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 100% fookin agree
> 
> not being in the USA i normally checked this for fun and for some perspective
> 
> but the world has moved on and is watching different
> 
> the audience is still there and they are watching
> 
> filling up arenas wouldn’t have been possible otherwise
> 
> i mean, this was the same as a 3rd of their normal audience, on a friday after midnight
> 
> which is why i believe they dropped the little tidbit of a 1.18 in the overnight DVRs on BTE / there’s more numbers of importance that we are not seeing


There’s also cross channel metrics, DVR and downloads that are not even factored into these numbers. This would also mean that NXT, RAW, and SD ratings are all skewed as fuck too, rendering all conversations about brand wars meaningless and a waste of time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This thread has to evolve into ‘let’s all rate Tony Khan’ 

look at this gem


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271509146739838980
also, i saw Santana tweet something like ‘it is amazing when you can laugh before work in the locker room, have a good time with your friends and laugh again with them in the back’ or something to that effect of ‘happy work environment

THAT is the Tony Khan difference! - But ‘LeAdErShIp’

carrying some whiteclaws for your workers is fucking leadership


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread has to evolve into ‘let’s all rate Tony Khan’
> 
> look at this gem
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271509146739838980
> also, i saw Santana tweet something like ‘it is amazing when you can laugh before work in the locker room, have a good time with your friends and laugh again with them in the back’ or something to that effect of ‘happy work environment
> 
> THAT is the Tony Khan difference! - But ‘LeAdErShIp’
> 
> carrying some whiteclaws for your workers is fucking leadership


I don't think anyone suggested that anyone was unhappy at AEW or that Tony Khan wasn't good at keeping people happy. I think we all think his creative leadership is bad though.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well that puts things into perspective. I think I’m done talking about ratings after reading that. People are watching replays, watching streams, watching YouTube clips. None of this shit is accurate enough for a real conversation. We don’t know shit about anything and I honestly don’t care anymore.


I've been saying this for months. Ratings don't mean shit and they certainly don't tell us which show is better. AEW regularly gets beaten by Real Housewives of Whatever City They're Doing These Days and we all know those shows suck.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread has to evolve into ‘let’s all rate Tony Khan’
> 
> look at this gem
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271509146739838980
> also, i saw Santana tweet something like ‘it is amazing when you can laugh before work in the locker room, have a good time with your friends and laugh again with them in the back’ or something to that effect of ‘happy work environment
> 
> THAT is the Tony Khan difference! - But ‘LeAdErShIp’
> 
> carrying some whiteclaws for your workers is fucking leadership


God damn, can tell you've never had a leader in your life. Someone splashing their money around to look cool for their new friends isn't leadership.


----------



## RapShepard

Lmao God damn what a turn AEW drops on Wednesday night silence, does good on a overnight replay, now just fuck ratings lol. 

Nikki Cross buying pizzas and Kahn buying Burger King wrestlers and their fast food lol. Ooo the future fuck Tony stories are going to be great.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The season finale of Total Bellas drew 693k viewers with a .29 in the demo.

AEW drew 677K at .23 and NXT drew 673K at .18.

UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Thursday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 6.11.2020 | Showbuzz Daily

Source: showbuzzdaily.

-----

The Wednesday Night Wars are dead.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Imagine having Jercho, Moxley, Hardy and a host of other famous WWE wrestlers and you lose to the Bella Twins.


----------



## bloc

You can't beat good storytelling pal!


----------



## NathanMayberry

taker1986 said:


> WWE were promoting the hell out of NXT on Raw Monday night. There was 3 NXT promos during the first hour alone. AEW doesn't have that luxury to advertise on another show which draws over 1 and a half million viewers. NXT should've won this week against one of the weakest Dynamites we've ever had on paper. There's no excuses for NXT not to win this week.


AEW had a massive Jericho billboard in Time Square and had several cameos during TNT's basketball games


----------



## ShadowCounter

Daniel Bryan = Dem Ratingz!!!


----------



## One Shed

Has any straight male ever watched this show? I really am curious what the overlap demographics look like.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> Has any straight male ever watched this show? I really am curious what the overlap demographics look like.


I watched it briefly when it was on once because my Mrs had seen it before and liked it. Cena was on and was laying down the rules towards Nikki Bella about the house which was pretty amusing.

It does seem like a show for women though. I did give Total Divas a chance because I liked the backstage stuff but it seemed pretty girly also.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Reality tv = money
Bellas killing it with the drawing of women - something AEW/NXT need to improve on.


----------



## TerraRising

Women are an important demographic in the wrestling biz. If you think some dork like Orange Cassidy is gonna draw massive ratings from a female audience, I've got a bridge to sell you.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Reality tv = money
> Bellas killing it with the drawing of women - something AEW/NXT need to improve on.


Hold on, aren't you one of the guys that shouts daily about how people don't want realism at all and that all TV is fake so it can be as goofy as it wants?

Now suddenly AEW gets beat by a reality TV show (Which is fake just shot as if it's real) and it's "The people want reality. Reality = Money"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, aren't you one of the guys that shouts daily about how people don't want realism at all and that all TV is fake so it can be as goofy as it wants?
> 
> Now suddenly AEW gets beat by a reality TV show (Which is fake just shot as if it's real) and it's "The people want reality. Reality = Money"


do you know what reality tv entails? I don’t think you’d want to watch Chris Jericho and Sammy Guevara put on makeup and discuss their relationships


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> do you know what reality tv entails? I don’t think you’d want to watch Chris Jericho and Sammy Guevara put on makeup and discuss their relationships


Reality TV means exactly what it says. Reality. Not every reality TV show has make up and relationship discussion.


----------



## Geeee

I think it's embarrassing that people watch shit like Total Bellas. Like... Why?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Geeee said:


> I think it's embarrassing that people watch shit like Total Bellas. Like... Why?



Well they get 90 percent nekkid in a lot of the episodes so. in one of the episodes Nikki is in a g string so tiny they literally have to blur out her b hole.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think anyone suggested that anyone was unhappy at AEW or that Tony Khan wasn't good at keeping people happy.* I think we all think his creative leadership is bad though*.


‘We all think’

you’re wrong there and you know it


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘We all think’
> 
> you’re wrong there and you know it


What has his Creative Leadership yielded in terms of objective results? 

His dad's billions are what got this started and got the connections to get make AEW a reality. It also paid for the millions they spent on advertising to get their initial 1.4 million viewers. Tony's creative leadership has seen that descend to 677K.

They were already able to sell out arenas before he came along. People are less interested and less hyped for AEW than they were a year ago after a year of his Creative Leadership. Every wrestler there should love it, getting paid well and having a chill boss is great to have, especially when the standards for success are so low.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Geeee said:


> I think it's embarrassing that people watch shit like Total Bellas. Like... Why?


women. Lol. Normal lives are boring so they wanna watch other women have cat fights and relationship problems.


----------



## rbl85

For me the only chance for AEW to have more women watching the show is bringing someone out of the wrestling world and someone who's really popular with the women.


----------



## validreasoning

The Bella's are one of the most under-rated probably most under-rated drawing acts ever in the business by the IWC.

I mean they sold merch by the truckload, fronted two successful reality shows, hugely popular Youtube channel, both were involved in huge matches (Brie vs Stephanie, Nikki vs Rousey).

The average prime time viewership of E! Is about only about 250-300,000 which is doubly impressive


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> For me the only chance for AEW to have more women watching the show is bringing someone out of the wrestling world and someone who's really popular with the women.


That’s what WWE and TNA tried and it failed. Remember snooki? Bro. No thanks.

If AEW want to attract the reality TV crowd of women, it’s not through wrestling. It’s through drama and relationships, gossip, hot men, cat fights etc.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> That’s what WWE and TNA tried and it failed. Remember snooki? Bro. No thanks.
> 
> If AEW want to attract the reality TV crowd of women, it’s not through wrestling. It’s through drama and relationships, gossip, hot men, cat fights etc.


That will never happen


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> That will never happen


Yeah unlikely. But I mean it just shows you that this empowerment through womens wrestling doesn’t really do much for AEW ratings.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah unlikely. But I mean it just shows you that this empowerment through womens wrestling doesn’t really do much for AEW ratings.


AEW use women horribly though. Maybe AEW should make a big play for Ronda Rousey and have her be the top female in AEW. That'd bring female sports fans in and give them a big star that mainstream media is interested in. Would suit Rousey as well because no WWE schedule.


----------



## Geeee

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well they get 90 percent nekkid in a lot of the episodes so. in one of the episodes Nikki is in a g string so tiny they literally have to blur out her b hole.


Well it's pretty easy to access millions of unblurred assholes


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> OT but does anyone watch the challenge? It’s amazing how they are always in the top 5
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do. The Season is Trash but It does well. I don't get it.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I watched it briefly when it was on once because my Mrs had seen it before and liked it. Cena was on and was laying down the rules towards Nikki Bella about the house which was pretty amusing.
> 
> It does seem like a show for women though. I did give Total Divas a chance because I liked the backstage stuff but it seemed pretty girly also.


I just hate "reality tv" in general. It seems mind numbing. Endless background dumb music and make five minutes of plot take an hour.


----------



## rbl85

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I do. The Season is Trash but It does well. I don't get it.


Season is trash but you're still watching….that may be why it does well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> I just hate "reality tv" in general. It seems mind numbing. Endless background dumb music and make five minutes of plot take an hour.


You'd hate Australian TV. We're known for how much reality TV we produce.

Personally the only reality TV I've enjoyed is Big Brother. Something about 16 people with different backgrounds and personalities forced to live together really appeals to me.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> You'd hate Australian TV. We're known for how much reality TV we produce.
> 
> Personally the only reality TV I've enjoyed is Big Brother. Something about 16 people with different backgrounds and personalities forced to live together really appeals to me.


I unplugged from cable over ten years ago. American TV has been full of reality crap once they figured out how cheap they were to produce when you are paying "regular" people vs actors.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread has to evolve into ‘let’s all rate Tony Khan’
> 
> look at this gem
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271509146739838980
> also, i saw Santana tweet something like ‘it is amazing when you can laugh before work in the locker room, have a good time with your friends and laugh again with them in the back’ or something to that effect of ‘happy work environment
> 
> THAT is the Tony Khan difference! - But ‘LeAdErShIp’
> 
> carrying some whiteclaws for your workers is fucking leadership


Okay, first of all, I don’t want to sound like I am defending people obsessing over the particulars of the ratings. People don’t know how to interpret or what to do with that information. But the idea that because they get downloaded illegally the ratings don’t matter is absolute HORSE SHIT. That makes zero difference to AEW’s bottom line. DVR doesn’t even really matter. Replays? Fuck that noise for anything other than a syndication buck. Is 300k in that slot even impressive? Why didn’t those people watch live? “Oh well” doesn’t fucking cut it.

Secondly, Santana has been where? TNA? Let’s trust his opinion on the difference between locker rooms.

Thirdly, a self-conscious rich kid buying his new friends treats so they like him isn’t leadership. Fuck. See through that shit.


----------



## validreasoning

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW use women horribly though. Maybe AEW should make a big play for Ronda Rousey and have her be the top female in AEW. That'd bring female sports fans in and give them a big star that mainstream media is interested in. Would suit Rousey as well because no WWE schedule.


If you bring in Rousey you would have to make her main focus of the entire show not just women's division.

WWE booked her well but nowhere near as well as they could have done. I suppose the fact that she was only giving a one year commitment meant they were never fully building around her like they did Austin, Hogan or Cena.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> The season finale of Total Bellas drew 693k viewers with a .29 in the demo.
> 
> AEW drew 677K at .23 and NXT drew 673K at .18.
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Thursday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 6.11.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> Source: showbuzzdaily.
> 
> -----
> 
> The Wednesday Night Wars are dead.


I guess thats the end of the ratings conversation, embarrassing to be beaten by two pregger women gossiping all day 😂😂 (and this counts for both WWE and AEW). BuT WoMeNs WrEsTliNg DoNt DrAw 😂😂


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

rbl85 said:


> Season is trash but you're still watching….that may be why it does well.


I actually stopped watching a while ago. Try Again.


----------



## The Wood

I don't know if you'd count Total Bellas as part of the WWE umbrella, or it's own thing, but if you put it in: 

1. SmackDown
2. Raw
3. Total Bellas
4. Dynamite
5. NXT

With 4 and 5 basically being a wash and NXT have a larger international presence, as well as having a home on the WWE Network. Yeah, WWE is not worried. The status quo will continue. 

Has Brandi gotten her reality show yet? It might be a more competitive war between that and Total Bellas than the WWE and AEW en large.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Rating is a bit down this week. Oh well. They'll bounce back. Not Worried at all.


----------



## bdon

Brandi has a cooking show where she drinks with various wrestlers while cooking and let’s just say she seems “thirsty”. Especially for “Orange” juice and vodka.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Brandi has a cooking show where she drinks with various wrestlers while cooking and let’s just say she seems “thirsty”. Especially for “Orange” juice and vodka.


Imagine being married to a dude who comes home with that tattoo.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Imagine being married to a dude who comes home with that tattoo.


I know I’m going to be called a hater and nitpicking, but unless she is totally comfortable with it, having that tattoo placed on your neck is incredibly selfish. My wife would kill me for making such a decision without discussing it.

But mayyyyyybe she was fine with it.


----------



## The Wood

It actually really is, haha. And judging by her Twitter, she wasn't a big fan of it. But it's possible they talked about it and she was like "Your body." And then she saw it and freaked, hahaha.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I know I’m going to be called a hater and nitpicking, but unless she is totally comfortable with it, having that tattoo placed on your neck is incredibly selfish. My wife would kill me for making such a decision without discussing it.
> 
> But mayyyyyybe she was fine with it.


she hated it - but she lets him do what he wants


----------



## The Wood

A piece of life advice: If you wife is not a fan of you radically altering your appearance, it is probably not a good idea to radically alter your appearance. You will find yourself with a bad appearance and no wife instead of a preferable appearance and some wife.

And he's the _smart_ VP.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> A piece of life advice: If you wife is not a fan of you radically altering your appearance, it is probably not a good idea to radically alter your appearance. You will find yourself with a bad appearance and no wife instead of a preferable appearance and some wife.
> 
> And he's the _smart_ VP.


It speaks to the kind of person he is.

No wonder she was acting out of line with Cassidy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> It speaks to the kind of person he is.
> 
> No wonder she was acting out of line with Cassidy.


you’re such a wierdo


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> It speaks to the kind of person he is.
> 
> No wonder she was acting out of line with Cassidy.


Dude your obsession with Cody is just creepy…...


----------



## The Wood

We were talking about Cody. What is bdon supposed to do? Change the subject?


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> We were talking about Cody. What is bdon supposed to do? Change the subject?


Come on you know that you guys talking about Cody is not the issue here…..

On top of that you should not talk about it on this topic. It's not the "Cody and his relationship with Brandi" topic but the ratings topic.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Dude your obsession with Cody is just creepy…...


Cry me a river.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Cry me a river.


I like this expression a lot actually XD


----------



## The Wood

Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining is my favourite. That and “I’m not here to fuck spiders.”


----------



## bdon

“Who’s plucking this chicken, me or you!?”

Or as my buddy’s crazy grandpa would always say, “Who’s fucking this chicken, me or you!?” Haha


----------



## RapShepard

Geeee said:


> I think it's embarrassing that people watch shit like Total Bellas. Like... Why?




I mean tbh reality shows are really just wrestling for women. It's a bunch of manufactured drama and fighting. They tend to have series long feuds and season arching storylines. If you watch wrestling you'd totally watch a reality show if you sat down and watched a few episodes of one.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I mean tbh reality shows are really just wrestling for women. It's a bunch of manufactured drama and fighting. They tend to have series long feuds and season arching storylines. If you watch wrestling you'd totally watch a reality show if you sat down and watched a few episodes of one.


I admit i watched the first two or three series of Total DIvas. Mainly cus i wanted to see Cena & Bryan. But to be honest, it wasn't that bad. Once you've started watchin, you tend to get hooked and watch rest of series.

I was addicted to Big Brother UK for ages which lasted like 3 months every year and 1hr daily episode, 2hr friday eviction specials and even a Live stream. So even more commitment than WWE. My excuse is i was a teenager 😂.

Basically if you've never watched them, you aint missing much. But i totally see why they are popular.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> I admit i watched the first two or three series of Total DIvas. Mainly cus i wanted to see Cena & Bryan. But to be honest, it wasn't that bad. Once you've started watchin, you tend to get hooked and watch rest of series.
> 
> I was addicted to Big Brother UK for ages which lasted like 3 months every year and 1hr daily episode, 2hr friday eviction specials and even a Live stream. So even more commitment than WWE. My excuse is i was a teenager .
> 
> Basically if you've never watched them, you aint missing much. But i totally see why they are popular.


I haven't watched the WWE reality shows, but I haven't watched much reality TV in general. But they are pretty easy to get into, because folk like drama. Wondering who's going to fight, who's going to hook up, and if the cast asshole will get what's coming to them are easy things to enjoy lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

@Dark Emperor big brother used to be entertaining as hell. Lol.

Imagine a wrestling version of it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> @Dark Emperor big brother used to be entertaining as hell. Lol.
> 
> Imagine a wrestling version of it.


The only reality show I ever watched was season 16 (I think) of Big Brother

my first time in London, 2007 - remember it clear as day


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The only reality show I ever watched was season 16 (I think) of Big Brother
> 
> my first time in London, 2007 - remember it clear as day


I think I long stopped watching it by then.

@Chip Chipperson wants a reality version of Pro-Wrestling. But I don’t think I’d wanna watch Penelope Ford and Kip Sabian make love under the covers 😂.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> I think I long stopped watching it by then.
> 
> @Chip Chipperson wants a reality version of Pro-Wrestling. But I don’t think I’d wanna watch Penelope Ford and Kip Sabian make love under the covers 😂.


What? I never said that at all.

They already did a reality wrestling show anyway. Tough Enough. It was half decent as well.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> What? I never said that at all.
> 
> They already did a reality wrestling show anyway. Tough Enough. It was half decent as well.


Fucking Mabel winning over the small guy. Think the small guy ended up as an announcer for WWE or something at one point.

Yeah. I loved that show. I was convinced I was going to find a way into the wrestling business. WCW selling probably killed the dream.

Have you hugged your “Fuck Vince McMahon” lately?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Fucking Mabel winning over the small guy. Think the small guy ended up as an announcer for WWE or something at one point.
> 
> Yeah. I loved that show. I was convinced I was going to find a way into the wrestling business. WCW selling probably killed the dream.
> 
> Have you hugged your “Fuck Vince McMahon” lately?


I was all on board with Chris Nowinski winning that Tough Enough. He was a massive asshole but turns out he did more than anyone else in that first edition of Tough Enough because now he's an expert in concussions and works with the WWE.

Maven and Josh Matthews were up there. Josh was heaps likeable back then but now everyone thinks he's an asshole.


----------



## bdon

Maven. I got the name wrong. Old age is a motherfucker. Lol

But yeah, Josh Matthews (had no clue that was his name) was who I was pulling for.


----------



## The Wood

Tough Enough was such a weird concept to me. By the time you can capitalise on these rookies' by training them up, people would have forgotten about who they are. You really should have just started with a bunch of independent guys or people from ECW and even WCW that could have been given a shot. By then you also might as well have just done pro-wrestling and brought them in and given them pushes, haha. I dunno.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> I mean tbh reality shows are really just wrestling for women. It's a bunch of manufactured drama and fighting. They tend to have series long feuds and season arching storylines. If you watch wrestling you'd totally watch a reality show if you sat down and watched a few episodes of one.


Yeah this is true. I'm relatively big on RTV myself so I can vouch for this.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Tough Enough was such a weird concept to me. By the time you can capitalise on these rookies' by training them up, people would have forgotten about who they are. You really should have just started with a bunch of independent guys or people from ECW and even WCW that could have been given a shot. By then you also might as well have just done pro-wrestling and brought them in and given them pushes, haha. I dunno.


I agree it was pretty weird. I could never get into it just because there were no recognizable faces on the show. I understand what they were trying to do of course on the competitive developmental end but if they mixed in some people who were already on the show, people who were not being used, it would have been far better in my opinion. Then you have indy guys mixing it in with recruits on TV for a better prize than just getting a WWE contract. You could then do like an indy guys vs recruits kind of thing with different competitions not only based in the ring. That's just me though, I'm sure there were plenty that enjoyed the concept.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> I agree it was pretty weird. I could never get into it just because there were no recognizable faces on the show. I understand what they were trying to do of course on the competitive developmental end but if they mixed in some people who were already on the show, people who were not being used, it would have been far better in my opinion. Then you have indy guys mixing it in with recruits on TV for a better prize than just getting a WWE contract. You could then do like an indy guys vs recruits kind of thing with different competitions not only based in the ring. That's just me though, I'm sure there were plenty that enjoyed the concept.


Well, the concept was to take an average guy or girl off the street and make them a WWE star. I don't mind the WCW/ECW guy idea but that seems like it'd have to be another show because it wouldn't be fair for a guy like Maven to have to compete against a 5 year vet who has already worked on TV.

I didn't mind the no recognisable faces competing thing because they had Al Snow, Taz and I think Tori on the first season? Plus, once the contest started kicking off they had some pretty big names appear (Triple H probably the most memorable)


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well, the concept was to take an average guy or girl off the street and make them a WWE star. I don't mind the WCW/ECW guy idea but that seems like it'd have to be another show because it wouldn't be fair for a guy like Maven to have to compete against a 5 year vet who has already worked on TV.
> 
> I didn't mind the no recognisable faces competing thing because they had Al Snow, Taz and I think Tori on the first season? Plus, once the contest started kicking off they had some pretty big names appear (Triple H probably the most memorable)


I remember that Triple H episode, very enjoyable. I was more so thinking kind of like some team vs team stuff like they do on outdoor competitive shows involving cardio, strength, and crossfit. I think doing that 25% of the time being competitive with indy guys while the rest focused on in-ring stuff would have been fun to see on top of the newer guys competing for the contract.


----------



## Peerless

I had a look at AEW's youtube playlists, and they've only made 3 specific playlists for their wrestlers and that's Moxley, Jericho, and Cody. These playlists have their every segment since the start of AEW.

Mox's highlights playlist views: 49K

Jericho's highlights playlist views: 22k

Cody's highlights playlist views: 15k

I wonder if Orange Cassidy will be getting his own anytime soon. If you're watching the show for only a specific wrestler then that's more convenient than sitting two hours waiting for them to show up.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

600-650 for me this week. It'll start off strong and drop through the show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yah, might not be too strong

fyter will recover it though

650?


----------



## rbl85

Was there something else important aside of NXT ?


----------



## RiverFenix

I could see a drop and a loss to NXT - nothing must-see about AEW last night. It was mostly on in the background for me. Weathers better, folks are outside more. No more captive audience. Summber ratings doldrums is why most shows have their summer "off-seasons" and end in late May and start up again in September.


----------



## bdon

But they’re trying so hard and the pandemic has most of their roster missing!!!



Oh wait.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I could see a drop and a loss to NXT - nothing must-see about AEW last night. It was mostly on in the background for me. Weathers better, folks are outside more. No more captive audience. Summber ratings doldrums is why most shows have their summer "off-seasons" and end in late May and start up again in September.


NXT wasn't good either.


----------



## Klitschko

AEW - 677k
NXT - 673k

Those look like the official numbers. Just looked it up online. Damn, super low numbers.


----------



## bdon

That was last week’s numbers.


----------



## Klitschko

Ohhh my bad then haha


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW will do around the same this week. Wouldn't be surprised if NXT got the W for once.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## bdon

Wrestling fans make no fucking sense.


----------



## Klitschko

Thats a really good number lol.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW will do around the same this week. Wouldn't be surprised if NXT got the W for once.


Ha. You're funny.


----------



## fabi1982

Looks like Tony bought 10 new Nielsen boxes 😂😂 but honestly this show doesnt deserve a 100k increase, nor does last weeks show should bring 100k new eyes to the program. But that only means we will get these kind of shows in the future...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Once again this board excels in showing it doesn’t know what the fuck its talking about


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Wrestling fans make no fucking sense.


I think the same thing when I read your posts


----------



## Dark Emperor

Good increase.

It’s strange that both shows had big drops last week and big gains this week, no logical reason.
But on the whole, the gap in viewership is much closer now. Basically NXT has held similar number since before no crowd whilst AEW dropped from averaging 900k or so.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Once again this board excels in showing it doesn’t know what the fuck its talking about


But even you were more negative than positive this week?!


----------



## Ozell Gray

So NXT had lower viewership this week too at 746k to Dynamite's 772k viewers.


----------



## The Wood

772k to 746k? NXT is like a Nielsen box in the right area away.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Good increase.
> 
> It’s strange that both shows had big drops last week and big gains this week, no logical reason.
> But on the whole, the gap in viewership is much closer now. Basically NXT has held similar number since before no crowd whilst AEW dropped from averaging 900k or so.


The news is the reason

whenever i point that out though, peeps here shit on me

when AEW is down, the news is up / it has a younger, more in-tune with current events base

they want to know about riots and covid and social issues and all the rest / and then I’m sure they catch it on DVR

but the news is quiet now, numbers go up

Key demo up by 0.08 points almost


----------



## AEW_19




----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Good increase.
> 
> It’s strange that both shows had big drops last week and big gains this week, no logical reason.
> But on the whole, the gap in viewership is much closer now. Basically NXT has held similar number since before no crowd whilst AEW dropped from averaging 900k or so.


NXT viewers are in the majority 50+ and usually the older you are and the more loyal you are.

AEW viewers being younger, they are less loyal.

Also for how long the challenge total madness is going to continue ?

If they do close to 800K for that show then they would probably be not that far from 1M for fyter fest.


----------



## RapShepard

So since AEW had a nice increase ratings matter again lol. Such a drastic change from last week


----------



## EmbassyForever

lmao these ratings aren't making sense but good for AEW and NXT.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The news is the reason
> 
> whenever i point that out though, peeps here shit on me
> 
> when AEW is down, the news is up / it has a younger, more in-tune with current events base
> 
> they want to know about riots and covid and social issues and all the rest / and then I’m sure they catch it on DVR
> 
> but the news is quiet now, numbers go up
> 
> Key demo up by 0.08 points almost


It’s not the news. Stop with this. Younger people get the news on their phones while taking an extra long shit at work or they’re on lunch, so they don’t have to make eye-contact with their co-workers. The news as a formatted television program is not going to cut into their regular lives.

Where is all this talk of the ratings being up this week coming from? Didn’t get get just about the same number last week? 772k or whatever is not an impressive number.


----------



## RapShepard

Both sides of this weekly thing are dickheads honestly. You got a bunch that will always spin AEW's ratings as a fail be it against their average or an average of 10-20+ years ago. Then you got the ones who beat their chest when they win, but find every excuse in the book when they're down.


----------



## DaSlacker

TNT should run Dynamite on different nights, a couple of times, to test the waters so to speak. Would be interesting to see what they pull unopposed and likewise against Raw on a traditional wrestling night. Wednesday night and head to head with NXT, which is more like AEW than Raw or SmackDown is IMO, means we still don't have a clear picture of their situation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> So since AEW had a nice increase ratings matter again lol. Such a drastic change from last week


You really pick and choose, don’t you?

The ratings matter as little this week as it did last week and the week before

it is a broken system that is indicative of nothing - as I am sure both shows gets double that just on digital views and DVR - in fact, in the final tally when all is said and done, NXT might win by some margin if you took global numbers

let’s not pretend anybody here is doing a little dance about how awesome all of this is - its just numbers for fun / and the fun now is seeing the predicted low numbers by everybody - myself included - and them outperforming it

it is like seeing your team perform better than expected in a game / but that is all it is, a bunch of nothing and we know it


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> NXT viewers are in the majority 50+ and usually the older you are and the more loyal you are.
> 
> AEW viewers being younger, they are less loyal.
> 
> Also for how long the challenge total madness is going to continue ?
> 
> If they do close to 800K for that show then they would probably be not that far from 1M for fyter fest.


Its 0.31 to 0.36 on the old demo, so either both have old demo or none, but its not like much more old people are watching NXT than AEW


----------



## The Wood

I don’t think people appreciate how flexible these ratings are. I think Nielsen has something like 10k boxes out there to monitor 80 million cabled homes. That means that each box averages an accountability for about 8,000 homes. It’s obviously slightly more complicated than that, but even an increase of about ~100k means about 10 people with boxes. One of them didn’t watch last week, one of them left the TV on, another wanted to laugh at the silly wrestling and the other 7 had their plans cancel. It’s not that shocking a number, haha. We’re not dealing with mass hypnosis here.


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> Its 0.31 to 0.36 on the old demo, so either both have old demo or none, but its not like much more old people are watching NXT than AEW


Younger people watch on delay and via the Network the next day because they don’t want to watch four hours of wrestling a night and are giving the new guys a chance. I can’t believe people don’t get this.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Both sides of this weekly thing are dickheads honestly. You got a bunch that will always spin AEW's ratings as a fail be it against their average or an average of 10-20+ years ago. Then you got the ones who beat their chest when they win, but find every excuse in the book when they're down.


In reality i don't really care about the ratings it's just that it's funny to see a show doing a good rating when so much people on this forum were saying that it was trash.

Sometimes it's the opposite, we think and say that the show was good and it get a bad rating.

They're is lesson that we need to learn : Nobody on this forum knows what's good for ratings.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> In reality i don't really care about the ratings it's just that it's funny to see a show doing a good rating when so much people on this forum were saying that it was trash.
> 
> Sometimes it's the opposite, we think and say that the show was good and it get a bad rating.
> 
> They're is lesson that we need to learn : Nobody on this forum knows what's good for ratings.


Apparently neither does AEW.

_mic drop_


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Apparently neither does AEW.
> 
> _mic drop_


lol, you’re funny bdon


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You really pick and choose, don’t you?
> 
> The ratings matter as little this week as it did last week and the week before
> 
> it is a broken system that is indicative of nothing - as I am sure both shows gets double that just on digital views and DVR - in fact, in the final tally when all is said and done, NXT might win by some margin if you took global numbers
> 
> let’s not pretend anybody here is doing a little dance about how awesome all of this is - its just numbers for fun / and the fun now is seeing the predicted low numbers by everybody - myself included - and them outperforming it
> 
> it is like seeing your team perform better than expected in a game / but that is all it is, a bunch of nothing and we know it


Nah you're the one who picks and chooses. I'm fairly consistent in these threads that AEW is doing more than good for a new wrestling promotion in 2020

This was you responding to me after they had a big overnight rating



> I air on the side of they're doing fine giving it's wrestling and it's hella unpopular. But it is funny there's no typical "woo hoo we won" lol





LifeInCattleClass said:


> well.... that is because we didn’t win


Like I said folk like you who throw out excuses anytime they do below average are just as ridiculous as the folk who hold them to the standards of TV ratings of the past.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> In reality i don't really care about the ratings it's just that it's funny to see a show doing a good rating when so much people on this forum were saying that it was trash.
> 
> Sometimes it's the opposite, we think and say that the show was good and it get a bad rating.
> 
> They're is lesson that we need to learn : Nobody on this forum knows what's good for ratings.


I've been consistent in saying they're doing good given they're new and it's wrestling in 2020. It's the other two sides that can't make their mind up. When they were kicking the shit out of NXT by landslides the super pro AEW side weren't discussing how meaningless ratings are. On the other hand regardless of what they do, the "but in 2011 TNA got 1.3s side has been mad the entire time". Both sides are acting like dickheads. 

The fact is this is a new wrestling show that has been in the top 50 every week of it's existence, most of that time spent in the top 15. It's clearly doing well in 2020. There's no need to downplay it based on what shit in the past did. There's also no need to find excuses everytime it drops for a week or two.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I've been consistent in saying they're doing good given they're new and it's wrestling in 2020. It's the other two sides that can't make their mind up. When they were kicking the shit out of NXT by landslides the super pro AEW side weren't discussing how meaningless ratings are. On the other hand regardless of what they do, the "but in 2011 TNA got 1.3s side has been mad the entire time". Both sides are acting like dickheads.
> 
> The fact is this is a new wrestling show that has been in the top 50 every week of it's existence, most of that time spent in the top 15. It's clearly doing well in 2020. There's no need to downplay it based on what shit in the past did. There's also no need to find excuses everytime it drops for a week or two.


They’re doing “okay”, but I maintain they could be doing so much better if they’d stop booking these half-assed efforts.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Nah you're the one who picks and chooses. I'm fairly consistent in these threads that *AEW is doing more than good for a new wrestling promotion in 2020*


It should really be that simple to see the situation, and it should be what the general audience wants and the consensus is. They're obviously doing great, getting a TV deal and look to be turning profit, yet some people want to pretend they're going out of business every time they do sub-700.
It's still a promotion in its early stage, and could they be doing better? of course, but could they also be doing worse? duh, like FFS, it's way too early for all the rating war mess for a new promotion.

However, fact is they're doing very good for a first-year promotion.


----------



## Prosper

This just echoes my post in this thread from last week. You guys think you know shit when you don’t know shit at all. Ratings conversations don’t matter. Even these numbers are drastically lower than the actual. All that shit talk in that pathetic excuse of a live Dynamite thread and the ratings go up 100k viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Nah you're the one who picks and chooses. I'm fairly consistent in these threads that AEW is doing more than good for a new wrestling promotion in 2020
> 
> This was you responding to me after they had a big overnight rating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said folk like you who throw out excuses anytime they do below average are just as ridiculous as the folk who hold them to the standards of TV ratings of the past.


what about my post was inconsistent?

AEW only ‘won’ last week by a small margin - too small to ‘celebrate‘ as a ‘win’

in fact, myself and others here i feel are very consistent, win or lose - now, if there were guys in the NXT forum gloating about AEW ‘winning’ - have a go at them, that is had behaviour

but i have yet to see it here over the last couple of months in big quantities

what i have seen a lot of, is people calling out others who said the company is going to fail, and it didn’t - and that is a valid call-out Imo


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I've been consistent in saying they're doing good given they're new and it's wrestling in 2020. It's the other two sides that can't make their mind up. When they were kicking the shit out of NXT by landslides the super pro AEW side weren't discussing how meaningless ratings are. On the other hand regardless of what they do, the "but in 2011 TNA got 1.3s side has been mad the entire time". Both sides are acting like dickheads.
> 
> The fact is this is a new wrestling show that has been in the top 50 every week of it's existence, most of that time spent in the top 15. It's clearly doing well in 2020. There's no need to downplay it based on what shit in the past did. There's also no need to find excuses everytime it drops for a week or two.


I think that unconsciously we like to have our little "fights" about the ratings.

Kind of a ritual XD


----------



## Aedubya

What were the ratings please?


----------



## Prosper

Aedubya said:


> What were the ratings please?


772k for AEW and 746k for NXT.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Apparently neither does AEW.
> 
> _mic drop_


Haha I wanted to write the exact same thing, but thought its not worth it. Thanks for doing it for me


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Haha I wanted to write the exact same thing, but thought its not worth it. Thanks for doing it for me


According to some, they’re trying actually trying to put together great shows, and we’re just nitpicking by expecting more from them.

So, they’ve went from 950k-ish viewers when they “actually try” to 750k-ish when they “actually try” these days.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what about my post was inconsistent?
> 
> AEW only ‘won’ last week by a small margin - too small to ‘celebrate‘ as a ‘win’
> 
> in fact, myself and others here i feel are very consistent, win or lose - now, if there were guys in the NXT forum gloating about AEW ‘winning’ - have a go at them, that is had behaviour
> 
> but i have yet to see it here over the last couple of months in big quantities
> 
> what i have seen a lot of, is people calling out others who said the company is going to fail, and it didn’t - and that is a valid call-out Imo


You pick and choose last week you and a bunch were all on the "eh ratings aren't really important" because they didn't hit their average. Now that they're back up it's all cheers and sunshine it's ridiculous.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You pick and choose last week you and a bunch were all on the "eh ratings aren't really important" because they didn't hit their average. Now that they're back up it's all cheers and sunshine it's ridiculous.


What da fuq are you talking about?

the only happiness I expressed this week is the confirmation that nobody, myself included, can predict the rating correct


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> What da fuq are you talking about?
> 
> the only happiness I expressed this week is the confirmation that nobody, myself included, can predict the rating correct


I’ve got a prediction that I trust will be proven right: they won’t get back to pre-pandemic viewings with the massively half-assed effort shows we have been getting for 3 months now.


----------



## K4L318

IamMark said:


> View attachment 87869


ayo didnt NXT call up some WWE stars there? they still took da L to a mid Dynimate?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NASCAR takes approximately 100-150k viewers away from AEW. That's pretty clear IMO.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> According to some, they’re trying actually trying to put together great shows, and we’re just nitpicking by expecting more from them.
> 
> So, they’ve went from 950k-ish viewers when they “actually try” to 750k-ish when they “actually try” these days.


Thats the thing. At least in here it is the same „excuses“ all the time and they dont see that this could hurt AEW in the long run, when they alread half assing most of their shows. And you could see that Cody actually cared less about this show because it was less about him, „so why should others shine“...but hey now its „when the crowds is back...“. Wonder what the excuses will be when we are at 700-800k next year same time. Maybe then its because Biden won...


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> What da fuq are you talking about?
> 
> the only happiness I expressed this week is the confirmation that nobody, myself included, can predict the rating correct





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Once again this board excels in showing it doesn’t know what the fuck its talking about


Here's you talking shit since they had a good number this week



LifeInCattleClass said:


> The news is the reason
> 
> whenever i point that out though, peeps here shit on me
> 
> when AEW is down, the news is up / it has a younger, more in-tune with current events base
> 
> they want to know about riots and covid and social issues and all the rest / and then I’m sure they catch it on DVR
> 
> but the news is quiet now, numbers go up
> 
> Key demo up by 0.08 points almost


Here's you tossing out excuses for last week

The difference between me and you is I've been consistent. You haven't been consistently talking about how irrelevant numbers are and you know it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I’ve got a prediction that I trust will be proven right: they won’t get back to pre-pandemic viewings with the massively half-assed effort shows we have been getting for 3 months now.


Even after crowds are back?

i’ll take that f’kn bet


----------



## Aedubya

prosperwithdeen said:


> 772k for AEW and 746k for NXT.


Thanks


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Here's you talking shit since they had a good number this week
> 
> 
> 
> Here's you tossing out excuses for last week
> 
> The difference between me and you is I've been consistent. You haven't been consistently talking about how irrelevant numbers are and you know it.


What da hell dude?

none of those points talk about the relevancy of the numbers / they talk about _why_ they might be up or down - they don’t state that it is _important_ that they are up or down

If you’re even confused about my stance on the numbers ever again, here is a handy quick referral for you

1. The total numbers don’t matter - there is a 4 year deal in place and that won’t change, barring some calamity
2. the Nielson system is broken. A 100k swing can be 5 households changing the channel
3. The Key demo is the real thing to look at for true growth as that can be extrapolated to online and dvr and other methods, which extends above the total numbers
4. I could not give 2 fucks if NXT win every week. It is the same as that MTV show being on top / it affects me zero

Now, don’t confuse me hypothesising about the ‘why‘ again with ‘i think 700k (or whatever number) _matters_’ - the only time I’ll get excited is if the Key Demo of Dynamite rivals the Key demo of Raw / and even that will just be anecdotal as it is only USA based

and all of this is only because stats in general excite me / they are fun


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> What da hell dude?
> 
> none of those points talk about the relevancy of the numbers / they talk about _why_ they might be up or down - they don’t state that it is _important_ that they are up or down
> 
> If you’re even confused about my stance on the numbers ever again, here is a handy quick referral for you
> 
> 1. The total numbers don’t matter - there is a 4 year deal in place and that won’t change, barring some calamity
> 2. the Nielson system is broken. A 100k swing can be 5 households changing the channel
> 3. The Key demo is the real thing to look at for true growth as that can be extrapolated to online and dvr and other methods, which extends above the total numbers
> 4. I could not give 2 fucks if NXT win every week. It is the same as that MTV show being on top / it affects me zero
> 
> Now, don’t confuse me hypothesising about the ‘why‘ again with ‘i think 700k (or whatever number) _matters_’ - the only time I’ll get excited is if the Key Demo of Dynamite rivals the Key demo of Raw
> 
> and all of this is only because stats in general excite me / they are fun


Yeah yeah like you said you like to cheer when they do well, and not say much when they don't. It's no big deal. But like I said both sides are dick headish


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShep trying to pick an argument for some reason here.

Cant a man enjoy seeing his favourite wrestling product succeed? bro. seriously.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yeah yeah like you said you like to cheer when they do well, and not say much when they don't. It's no big deal. But like I said both sides are dick headish


There’s no sides - at least, there shouldn’t be

whomever is this thread I hope would just want AEW to succeed

anything other than that will just be kinda sad


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> RapShep trying to pick an argument for some reason here.
> 
> Cant a man enjoy seeing his favourite wrestling product succeed? bro. seriously.


Pick an argument? Nah hit dogs just holler. I'm the only one in this thread who's been consistent on them doing good with out making excuses for their drops or down playing them altogether.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I have predicted


optikk sucks said:


> RapShep trying to pick an argument for some reason here.
> 
> Cant a man enjoy seeing his favourite wrestling product succeed? bro. seriously.


Not on this forum.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> Ha. You're funny.


Less than 30,000 away. As The Wood said that's a couple of boxes in the right areas away from a NXT win.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Once again this board excels in showing it doesn’t know what the fuck its talking about


And you do? 



The Wood said:


> It’s not the news. Stop with this. Younger people get the news on their phones while taking an extra long shit at work or they’re on lunch, so they don’t have to make eye-contact with their co-workers. The news as a formatted television program is not going to cut into their regular lives.
> 
> Where is all this talk of the ratings being up this week coming from? Didn’t get get just about the same number last week? 772k or whatever is not an impressive number.


This. All of this. I don't know anyone under the age of like 45 that watches the news anymore. I'm approaching thirty and I get all of my news off of social media. I was reading a newspaper yesterday and was trying to remember the last time I'd actually done that.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Even after crowds are back?
> 
> i’ll take that f’kn bet


You think hundreds of thousands of AEW fans are just waiting for the crowds to be back to support AEW again? Both companies might see a temporary boost once the crowds are back but I can see it dropping back down and staying down also. AEW and NXT are both way too niche to be successful long term.

Oops, I forgot, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> And you do?


i’m quite clearly part of this board and i also quite clearly got the numbers wrong

i thought they would do 650 max and said so 🤷‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *You think hundreds of thousands of AEW fans are just waiting for the crowds to be back to support AEW again?* Both companies might see a temporary boost once the crowds are back but I can see it dropping back down and staying down also. AEW and NXT are both way too niche to be successful long term.
> 
> Oops, I forgot, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about


i think there is quite a large portion who will watch live as opposed to dvr when crowds are back, yes

and i also think they are spinning their wheels on some major angles in wait for the crowd to be back

we’ll still be having the same chat a year from now about their longterm success, and no matter how you slice it, a year would’ve passed - that’s long


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think there is quite a large portion who will watch live as opposed to dvr when crowds are back, yes
> 
> *and i also think they are spinning their wheels on some major angles in wait for the crowd to be back*
> 
> we’ll still be having the same chat a year from now about their longterm success, and no matter how you slice it, a year would’ve passed - that’s long


Then you admit they’re putting out bullshit, half-assed fucking efforts!! That was the entire goddamn premise of my statement!!


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Less than 30,000 away. As The Wood said that's a couple of boxes in the right areas away from a NXT win.
> 
> 
> 
> And you do?
> 
> 
> 
> This. All of this. I don't know anyone under the age of like 45 that watches the news anymore. I'm approaching thirty and I get all of my news off of social media. I was reading a newspaper yesterday and was trying to remember the last time I'd actually done that.
> 
> 
> 
> You think hundreds of thousands of AEW fans are just waiting for the crowds to be back to support AEW again? Both companies might see a temporary boost once the crowds are back but I can see it dropping back down and staying down also. AEW and NXT are both way too niche to be successful long term.
> 
> Oops, I forgot, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about


you don’t know anyone under 45 who watches the news anymore but the news has consistently been top of the under 45 demo during the whole pandemic.

perhaps the company you keep is different to the average american.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

..


bdon said:


> Then you admit they’re putting out bullshit, half-assed fucking efforts!! That was the entire goddamn premise of my statement!!


those two statements are very far apart from each other

like, leagues apart

continents even


----------



## bdon

They have good stuff they are protecting, to a fault, and keeping it close to vest.

What is the opposite of good? Forget even opposite, if they’re not putting their best foot forward, then it’s a half-assed effort. Even the great stuff doesn’t always connect, but you at least put your best foot forward.

Instead, you get these goddamn, POS half-assed efforts that even @optikk sucks chooses to not watch.


----------



## Erik.

Back up this week. 

Back down next week. 

Back up the following week. 

Yada yada.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> you don’t know anyone under 45 who watches the news anymore but the news has consistently been top of the under 45 demo during the whole pandemic.
> 
> perhaps the company you keep is different to the average american.


There’s a difference between the news being up and the news taking away from other shows. People want to make that correlation causation. It doesn’t work that way.

Also, it’s weird that people are calling 750k a really successful rating. It’s not awful by modern television standards, but it’s not great by wrestling standards. Raw still gets 2 million on basic cable. bdon described it pretty perfectly — “okay, but could be better” (to paraphrase).


----------



## PavelGaborik

People do realize that the gap actually expanded slightly this week, correct? I believe there was only about a 5k gap last week.

NXT isn't going to get shutout and never was. They've won consecutive weeks in the past and they will again moving forward.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW 8th NXT 25th I mean that's a good spot for NXT as they usually struggle hitting the top 50.

AEW ho hum wins demo by 40% again.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> you don’t know anyone under 45 who watches the news anymore but the news has consistently been top of the under 45 demo during the whole pandemic.
> 
> perhaps the company you keep is different to the average american.


Well considering I'm on the other side of the planet you'd be correct that the company I keep is different to the average American. I legitimately don't know any young people that watch the news these days as a matter of fact my mum who is in her sixties gets all her news online these days as well.


----------



## thorn123

Good to see viewership up a little.....would like to crack one million consistently within in year....don’t think they will though....unfortunately (in all aspects of life) there are many superior products out there, that are less popular than their inferior competition.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well considering I'm on the other side of the planet you'd be correct that the company I keep is different to the average American. I legitimately don't know any young people that watch the news these days as a matter of fact my mum who is in her sixties gets all her news online these days as well.


Nobody is talking about the normal 7o'clock news

if you look at all the weeks these programs were down, news adjacent programs reigned the top 10 - in all demos

topical discussions, interviews, opinion news - those sorts of programs / debates et all


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nobody is talking about the normal 7o'clock news
> 
> if you look at all the weeks these programs were down, news adjacent programs reigned the top 10 - in all demos
> 
> topical discussions, interviews, opinion news - those sorts of programs / debates et all


Nobody cares. Get it all online. I barely know any young people that even watch TV these days unless it's for sports which is why I'm confident that both AEW and WWE are doing much better than the ratings dictate.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody cares. Get it all online. I barely know any young people that even watch TV these days unless it's for sports which is why I'm confident that both AEW and WWE are doing much better than the ratings dictate.


it was in the literal ratings

news programs number 1 - 10 over the last couple of weeks / during the height of covid and the riots

agreed, _NORMALLY_ nobody cares - and news programs are in the 40s with a older demo

but for awhile there, that wasn’t the case / its returning to normal though this week


----------



## rbl85

Dynamite opened with 782K viewers which means that they only lost 10K viewers overall during the 2 hours.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Dynamite opened with 782K viewers which means that they only lost 10K viewers overall during the 2 hours.


Do you have the Q breakdown?

does it at least make more sense than last week?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do you have the Q breakdown?
> 
> does it at least make more sense than last week?


Yes i have it but i will post it later.

All i can say is that the quarters with Moxley and Jericho got killed.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> Yes i have it but i will post it later.
> 
> All i can say is that the quarters with *Moxley* and Jericho got killed.


You mean his 90s promo?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273925759573188609
There's this for now. And hey, it's fair 🤷‍♂️


----------



## rbl85

What he wrote in this tweet is partially wrong because Jericho segments have lost a few times in the last few weeks.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

rbl85 said:


> What he wrote in this tweet is partially wrong because Jericho segments have lost a few times in the last few weeks.


It has been nine months of Jericho being at or near the main event. Are people beginning to grow tired of him? His segments always maintained or gained viewers. But these last few weeks are showing a different trend for Jericho.


----------



## rbl85

Bloody Warpath said:


> It has been nine months of Jericho being at or near the main event. Are people beginning to grow tired of him? His segments always maintained or gained viewers. But these last few weeks are showing a different trend for Jericho.


Well also to tell the truth, the quarter 7 lost 90K viewers and the Jericho match started in the quarter 8.


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> You mean his 90s promo?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273925759573188609
> There's this for now. And hey, it's fair 🤷‍♂️


Sasha Banks beating Jericho is actually pretty cool, the girl is a star but WWE keeps holding her back


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Sasha Banks beating Jericho is actually pretty cool, the girl is a star but WWE keeps holding her back


Yep - could've / could be crossover star. Instead pushing others for nostalgic purposes


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Yes i have it but i will post it later.
> 
> All i can say is that the quarters with Moxley and Jericho got killed.


Tazz/Cage promo was in end of quarter 6 which was highest quarter. Mox promo was exactly 1 minute of quarter 7 which was less then commercial break. My guess minute by minutes would probably show a lot of people leaving after Mox&Baker stuff. Considering the main event dropped even lower.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Well also to tell the truth, the quarter 7 lost 90K viewers and the Jericho match started in the quarter 8.


Intros for match was quarter 7. 


-Commercial break 
-It was ONE minute Mox promo 
-Rundown of next week show 
-Britt Baker in garbage can
-Best Friends entrance and Sammy /Jericho coming out that cut off Sammy singing.
Commercial break

Quarter 7 always has a drop and always has filler quick promos, preview for next week etc. For it to drop like it did given how low main event did. IMO it's on Jericho/Sammy vs Best Friends. My guess minute by minute probably show steep decline in that quarter to the main event.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Intros for match was quarter 7.
> 
> 
> -Commercial break
> -It was ONE minute Mox promo
> -Rundown of next week show
> -Britt Baker in garbage can
> -Best Friends entrance and Sammy /Jericho coming out that cut off Sammy singing.
> Commercial break
> 
> Quarter 7 always has a drop and always has filler quick promos, preview for next week etc. For it to drop like it did given how low main event did. IMO it's on Jericho/Sammy vs Best Friends. My guess minute by minute probably show steep decline in that quarter to the main event.


"Intros for match was quarter 7." 10s of Sammy singing Judas.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> "Intros for match was quarter 7." 10s of Sammy singing Judas.


Yes but quarter 7 is always impacted on main event. Since it's total filler quarter with two commercial breaks, then one or two quick backstage promo or video packages and preview for next week. It's very hard quarter not to lose viewers consistently. 


If main event doesn't do well. It's clear sign that people just turned off the show for the night. Since they didn't care about the main event and know quarter 7 isn't going to have anything impactful.


It would be different story if main event gained a bunch of viewers back. But when it continued to lose a bunch. Well that's telling. Since if it's a main event people want to see. Then they will stick around more for quarter filler stuff. But what's the point if they know they aren't watching the main event?


----------



## imthegame19

Q1: Omega/Hangman vs Natural Nightmares: 782K(379K main demo)
Q2: Anna Jay videopackage, Anna Jay vs Abadon, Dark Order comes out: 741K(332K)
Q3: MJF vs Billy and post brawl: 800K(371K)
Q4: Cody and Starks promos, beginning of their match: 797K(369K)
Q5: Cody vs Starks: 795K(365K)
Q6: Bucks vs Superbadsquad, Taz and Cage promos: 824K(375K)
Q7: Mox promo, Britt/Rebel segment, intros to Sex Gods vs BF: 734K(359k)
Q8: BF vs Sex Gods: 705K(367K)


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Omega/Hangman vs Natural Nightmares: 782K(379K main demo)
> Q2: Anna Jay videopackage, Anna Jay vs Abadon, Dark Order comes out: 741K(332K)
> Q3: MJF vs Billy and post brawl: 800K(371K)
> Q4: Cody and Starks promos, beginning of their match: 797K(369K)
> Q5: Cody vs Starks: 795K(365K)
> Q6: Bucks vs Superbadsquad, Taz and Cage promos: 824K(375K)
> Q7: Mox promo, Britt/Rebel segment, intros to Sex Gods vs BF: 734K(359k)
> Q8: BF vs Sex Gods: 705K(367K)


 hat really hurt the Q7 is probably the Britt/Rebel segments or the commercials or both.


----------



## Bosnian21

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Omega/Hangman vs Natural Nightmares: 782K(379K main demo)
> Q2: Anna Jay videopackage, Anna Jay vs Abadon, Dark Order comes out: 741K(332K)
> Q3: MJF vs Billy and post brawl: 800K(371K)
> Q4: Cody and Starks promos, beginning of their match: 797K(369K)
> Q5: Cody vs Starks: 795K(365K)
> Q6: Bucks vs Superbadsquad, Taz and Cage promos: 824K(375K)
> Q7: Mox promo, Britt/Rebel segment, intros to Sex Gods vs BF: 734K(359k)
> Q8: BF vs Sex Gods: 705K(367K)


Wow they lost over 100k from Q6 to the end of the show.

Btw I find it a bit risky for AEW to be pushing Best Friends like this. They haven’t really gotten over in the sense that there are no live fans to test and see how big of a reaction they get. So it’s basically Tony giving them a push because he likes them. I hope they don’t get the tag titles.


----------



## rbl85

Bosnian21 said:


> Wow they lost over 100k from Q6 to the end of the show.
> 
> Btw I find it a bit risky for AEW to be pushing Best Friends like this. They haven’t really gotten over in the sense that there are no live fans to test and see how big of a reaction they get. So it’s basically Tony giving them a push because he likes them. I hope they don’t get the tag titles.


No best friend are pushed because they needed a filler team for fyter fest.

Also Best friend vs Omega and Page is going to be a really good match.


----------



## Garty

Does the breakdown of this weeks ratings give "proof" to the Hate Squad of AEW's impending demise? I have you all on ignore, so, thankfully for me, I never have to read it. Ahh. Nothing but silence.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: NXT Main Event Tops Chris Jericho Match, Quarter Hour Details


As previously reported, AEW Dynamite and WWE NXT both saw big gains in total viewers this week.AEW Dynamite topped NXT by 3.5% in overall viewers…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Pippen94

Garty said:


> Does the breakdown of this weeks ratings give "proof" to the Hate Squad of AEW's impending demise? I have you all on ignore, so, thankfully for me, I never have to read it. Ahh. Nothing but silence.


Yep - they're claiming victory. it's as close to victory as they'll ever get


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Does the breakdown of this weeks ratings give "proof" to the Hate Squad of AEW's impending demise? I have you all on ignore, so, thankfully for me, I never have to read it. Ahh. Nothing but silence.


And yet we are still living rent free in your mind.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Time to go full blown JR Ewing for MJFs character and push him to the moon. Some type of never before seen violent action should be taken against MJF after weeks of MJF messing with the heads of numerous talents.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Sasha Banks beating Jericho is actually pretty cool, the girl is a star but WWE keeps holding her back


I'm pretty sure the current plan is to have her take the belt off Bayley, probably at SummerSlam in Boston (should crowds be back), to get her primed for her album release with Snoop Dogg. 

Jericho seems to be losing that apparent trend of drawing power the more silly he gets and the more he interacts with mid-carders who don't take this shit seriously either. Hmm, interesting.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> I'm pretty sure the current plan is to have her take the belt off Bayley, probably at SummerSlam in Boston (should crowds be back), to get her primed for her album release with Snoop Dogg.
> 
> Jericho seems to be losing that apparent trend of drawing power the more silly he gets and the more he interacts with mid-carders who don't take this shit seriously either. Hmm, interesting.


I mean Jericho has been doing this his whole career (going back and forth from upper mid card to main event being funny then serious and vice versa) and has stayed over, and his feud with OC has only been like 3 weeks so it's not really hurting him imo. People are just more interested in Sasha right now, which they should be because she's been damn awesome.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Here comes Michael Buffer! This is Your Nitro Main Event of this evening. Are you ready? Let's get ready to rumblllllllllle!!! Oh shit it's no Hollywood Hogan vs DDP, it's the Best Friends, dog! Where is my accountant, business is about to fall down.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean Jericho has been doing this his whole career (going back and forth from upper mid card to main event being funny then serious and vice versa) and has stayed over, and his feud with OC has only been like 3 weeks so it's not really hurting him imo. People are just more interested in Sasha right now, which they should be because she's been damn awesome.


He's never been a complete joke wrestler working with joke wrestlers. I think he did have a match with a fake Goldberg once on WCW PPV, but that was clearly Jericho, in kayfabe, fucking around. Jericho feuding with OC is hurting him. When you feud with a parody of wrestling you become a parody of a wrestler yourself.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> He's never been a complete joke wrestler working with joke wrestlers. I think he did have a match with a fake Goldberg once on WCW PPV, but that was clearly Jericho, in kayfabe, fucking around. Jericho feuding with OC is hurting him. When you feud with a parody of wrestling you become a parody of a wrestler yourself.


Alright man.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Alright man.


You don't see the difference between Jericho being funny on the mic and feuding with a guy whose act is "wrestling is fake and I pretend I'm better than it?"


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> You don't see the difference between Jericho being funny on the mic and feuding with a guy whose act is "wrestling is fake and I pretend I'm better than it?"


I just don't feel like debating I do this with you and your boys every other night and it's too time-consuming. I enjoy the show and I'm enjoying what they're doing with Jericho.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> I just don't feel like debating I do this with you and your boys every other night and it's too time-consuming. I enjoy the show and I'm enjoying what they're doing with Jericho.


Well, okay, that's fair enough. I know what you mean by my "boys," but I assure you they think very much for themselves. You're allowed to enjoy what they're doing. I just think that if you want to know what's going on with the Jericho mystique and his apparent unbeaten streak in ratings (really only relevant because of the trend), then him becoming a bit of a Chris Jericho parody is probably the best guess.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Well, okay, that's fair enough. I know what you mean by my "boys," but I assure you they think very much for themselves. You're allowed to enjoy what they're doing. I just think that if you want to know what's going on with the Jericho mystique and his apparent unbeaten streak in ratings (really only relevant because of the trend), then him becoming a bit of a Chris Jericho parody is probably the best guess.


All your dummy accounts you post under


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> What he wrote in this tweet is partially wrong because Jericho segments have lost a few times in the last few weeks.


He's literally in a feud with a clown.. what do they expect?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Garty said:


> Does the breakdown of this weeks ratings give "proof" to the Hate Squad of AEW's impending demise? I have you all on ignore, so, thankfully for me, I never have to read it. Ahh. Nothing but silence.


You quoted me like a day or two ago, lol.

Although yes, it kind of does show that we're correct when ratings continue to drop more and more.



The Wood said:


> Jericho seems to be losing that apparent trend of drawing power the more silly he gets and the more he interacts with mid-carders who don't take this shit seriously either. Hmm, interesting.


Yet people shout from the roof tops that we are wrong and that comedy in wrestling is "how it is now" and that we should just accept it. I wonder how many people will say we were correct when push really comes to shove.



prosperwithdeen said:


> I just don't feel like debating I do this with you and your boys every other night and it's too time-consuming. I enjoy the show and I'm enjoying what they're doing with Jericho.


You very well might be (I don't get how though) but that doesn't mean the majority are. Week to week the complaints about AEW become more and more common with guys who used to be mainly positive about the product now joining us on the mainly negative side. I remember when I first spoke to bdon he was really high on AEW and it's product and we even debated a couple of times but even he is now fed up with the majority of the product and even had to turn it off this week.



Pippen94 said:


> All your dummy accounts you post under


If you genuinely believe this then there is something wrong and Wood is a genius. Imagine having the time and intelligence to post as multiple individuals, change your vocabulary for certain posters, create back stories for each person, have them occasionally disagree, have long conversations with one another and manage to do all this without the admins finding out that you have close to 10 different accounts.

This might shock you but maybe...just maybe...we're all genuinely different people who don't really like everything AEW brings to the table? Hard to fathom I know but I assure you it's true.


----------



## The Wood

The criticism is becoming more and more widespread. I’ll admit I became a cynic early. I’ve been hurt before, haha. I’ve just got a low tolerance for bad wrestling now. It’s just where I’m at. But a lot of people will preach patience and “take the good and ignore the bad,” and that’s fine too. That’s them. But more and more I notice those people are starting to cut back on the slack cutting.

The new car smell is wearing off. This is a multi-million dollar venture that promised to change the world and be the alternative. The pattern of behaviour that suggests they don’t give a fuck about actually improving as anything other than a fan serving mantra is becoming evident.

Being new was their greatest advantage. I see a lot of people who thought it was holding them back. I don’t understand — never have, never will. They’re losing goodwill.


----------



## validreasoning

Sasha is constantly pushed despite her terrible attitude. She is on TV each week featured in top segments and now on three shows.. something Charlotte was criticised for!

In NXT Bayley was more over than Sasha. Bayley is also far more reliable given she is never injured.

Putting Jericho on commentary was a mistake. They booked him very well until February but he just feels like another guy now not a special attraction standing out in the crowd.


----------



## Garty

Wolf Mark said:


> Here comes Michael Buffer! This is Your Nitro Main Event of this evening. Are you ready? Let's get ready to rumblllllllllle!!! Oh shit it's no Hollywood Hogan vs DDP, it's the Best Friends, dog! Where is my accountant, business is about to fall down.


I have ZERO idea what this even means. Please do everyone a favor and quit while you're ahead.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Garty said:


> I have ZERO idea what this even means. Please do everyone a favor and quit while you're ahead.


He's suggesting that the last wrestling show on TNT is much better than the current wrestling show on TNT


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> You quoted me like a day or two ago, lol.
> 
> Although yes, it kind of does show that we're correct when ratings continue to drop more and more.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet people shout from the roof tops that we are wrong and that comedy in wrestling is "how it is now" and that we should just accept it. I wonder how many people will say we were correct when push really comes to shove.
> 
> 
> 
> You very well might be (I don't get how though) but that doesn't mean the majority are. Week to week the complaints about AEW become more and more common with guys who used to be mainly positive about the product now joining us on the mainly negative side. I remember when I first spoke to bdon he was really high on AEW and it's product and we even debated a couple of times but even he is now fed up with the majority of the product and even had to turn it off this week.
> 
> 
> 
> If you genuinely believe this then there is something wrong and Wood is a genius. Imagine having the time and intelligence to post as multiple individuals, change your vocabulary for certain posters, create back stories for each person, have them occasionally disagree, have long conversations with one another and manage to do all this without the admins finding out that you have close to 10 different accounts.
> 
> This might shock you but maybe...just maybe...we're all genuinely different people who don't really like everything AEW brings to the table? Hard to fathom I know but I assure you it's true.


It's much easier to just post "trollllllll" 72 times from 3 different accounts. Isn't that right DanielAllan, I mean Garty, I mean Pippen.. Fuck.. Got there eventually


----------



## Garty

validreasoning said:


> Sasha is constantly pushed despite her terrible attitude. She is on TV each week featured in top segments and now on three shows.. something Charlotte was criticised for!
> 
> In NXT Bayley was more over than Sasha. Bayley is also far more reliable given she is never injured.
> 
> Putting Jericho on commentary was a mistake. They booked him very well until February but he just feels like another guy now not a special attraction standing out in the crowd.


I won't comment on Sasha/Bayley. I don't watch it.

Jericho was put on commentary due to the CV-19 pandemic. JR was asked to stay home and Excalibur, was locked-down in California, unable to leave the State. Didn't he only do the 4-5 weeks of commentary with Tony Skeeavone, when Dynamite was taped in QT Marshall's Atlanta gym? Yes, he did do commentary for Dynamite on June 10th, but only for the first hour, when he left to whack Orange Cassidy with the bag of oranges, leading into their match at Fyter Fest. In my opinion, I think that will be Jericho's last match for a while (just the summer months off and YES losing to Orange Cassidy), until things become more clear, regarding the CV-19 guidelines, to which AEW must adhere to, or otherwise stated.

Jericho was also scheduled to take time away to go on tour with his band Fozzy, (late March through to late June, I believe). So other than being written out of story-lines to cover for his time away (meaning they didn't have anything written for him until he was scheduled to come back from his tour), Jericho was kind of "put" into story-lines to make up for that fact. Once the pieces were put into place (with key-talent returning to make it happen), Stadium Stampede was born. Jericho had a vested interest in creating/producing the build-up and match, which was the biggest thing AEW has done during the current CV-19 pandemic. The Stadium Stampede match was, theoretically, a replacement for the Blood & Guts match, that was scheduled to take place March 18th... the same week that everything stopped, due to the CV-19 pandemic.


----------



## Danielallen1410

watched the show

not the best, found myself bored, that’s two weeks in a row. Running out of steam at the moment.

ive watched two shows and not enjoyed them, two or three more and I’ll probably stop altogether, so question for me is how the fuck are people week in week out watching it and not enjoying it?


----------



## The Wood

They can’t trust in Jericho anymore, so they need to trust in Rebel’s ass.


----------



## TripleG

I'm bored with wrestling in general. I get that WWE and AEW are doing what they can with the restrictions, but wrestling just does not work without a crowd. 

Its one of the reasons I've been getting my wrestling fix by watching old WCW Nitros. You just need that crowd participation to add energy to the show.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

validreasoning said:


> Putting Jericho on commentary was a mistake. They booked him very well until February but he just feels like another guy now not a special attraction standing out in the crowd.


If I'm not mistaken during the Nightmare Factory episodes they had rotating guest commentators with Tony. Cody, Colt and Chuck Taylor all did commentary for those shows but after the first one Jericho asked if he could re-do the commentary with Schivone. So when ever they show Tony and Jericho at the table it's really just them re-watching tape at Jericho's house. 

IMO the first few times was good and they were fun but eventually his schtick got a bit old.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

TripleG said:


> I'm bored with wrestling in general. I get that WWE and AEW are doing what they can with the restrictions, but wrestling just does not work without a crowd.
> 
> Its one of the reasons I've been getting my wrestling fix by watching old WCW Nitros. You just need that crowd participation to add energy to the show.


Damn straight, I started on WCW Saturday Nights and am into the Dangerous Alliance era now. Wrestling without crowds is awful, so tired of it!!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Garty said:


> I have ZERO idea what this even means. Please do everyone a favor and quit while you're ahead.


Means that back in the Nitro days Michael Buffer would come out for the main event and do the ring announcing. He was epic, literally the best ever. Nitro would often make their main events feel PPV level, something AEW never does sadly.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I still strongly believe there is nothing aew to grow their audience significantly.

They are where they are.

wwe will always have more of an audience due to the brand recognition. A bit like McDonald’s has more restaurants therefore more customers than a good restaurant.

for me aew is the better product, but it’s still not great, it’s just the way wrestling is, everything has been done, there is literally nothing anyone can do to bring it back to how it was.

I’m just happy to have an alternative to watch.

name me one angle any promotion could do that hasn’t been done before?


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274771630137450500
lmao love these interactions


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274771630137450500
> lmao love these interactions


sexual tension is high, sammy guevara girlfriend gotta be careful


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274771630137450500
> lmao love these interactions


Haha I love it, Sasha Banks calling LeSexGods out lol, all in good fun of course


----------



## Not Lying

prosperwithdeen said:


> Haha I love it, Sasha Banks calling LeSexGods out lol, all in good fun of course


Dude it's fucking amazing now, it's like people in our threads fight


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274767116730843137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274800386466091016
Tony Khan liked that last one ^^ lmao I'm enjoying this


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> sexual tension is high, sammy guevara girlfriend gotta be careful


please... Pam has Sammy wrapped around her finger


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> Dude it's fucking amazing now, it's like people in our threads fight
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274767116730843137
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274800386466091016
> Tony Khan liked that last one ^^ lmao I'm enjoying this


Lol looking forward to Sasha's clapback


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> I still strongly believe there is nothing aew to grow their audience significantly.
> 
> They are where they are.
> 
> wwe will always have more of an audience due to the brand recognition. A bit like McDonald’s has more restaurants therefore more customers than a good restaurant.
> 
> for me aew is the better product, but it’s still not great, it’s just the way wrestling is, everything has been done, there is literally nothing anyone can do to bring it back to how it was.
> 
> I’m just happy to have an alternative to watch.
> 
> name me one angle any promotion could do that hasn’t been done before?


AEW to build their audience significantly could try going in a different direction to WWE which is what lead to WCW being successful. Eric Bischoff tells a story of how he locked himself in a room, watched the WWF and made a long list of things he could do to be different from the WWE. EG they were taped so he went live, they were very cartoonish he became serious etc.

AEW comes off as WWE Lite a lot of the time. WWE does cinematic matches so AEW does them, WWE does nostalgia so AEW brings guys back for nostalgia, WWE runs arenas with slick production value so AEW does the same.

I've commented before that if I was in charge of AEW I'd run arenas but dim the lights giving that more intimate feeling and a different vibe than the WWE, instead of doing stupid comedy bits like the WWE does I'd be more serious just like Uncle Eric did in 1995, I'd focus on being the mecca for tag team wrestling (Which AEW kind of is but Best Friends are expected to win the tag titles soon which is a massive step back), I'd focus on just being the best serious wrestling in the country so that when people tune in and see my shit they'd be like "This definitely isn't WWE but I like it". They also might want to cut match times because nobody except hardcore smart marks are into the idea of 2-3 15+ minute wrestling matches on a week to week basis.

The ending of this past weeks show with Orange Cassidy taking off all the camera gear and attacking Jericho is a total WWE move so was the week prior with Jake Hager casually strolling out and Cody magically being able to read his mind and know what he wants and when he wants it. Total WWE moves.

You're correct in that most promotions couldn't find a unique angle because mostly everything has been done but I'm not a big believer in different being automatically good. I think that's where wrestling goes wrong these days you have so many guys just trying to be different whether it makes sense or not because they think different means ratings or tickets sold but in reality most of the things that are different today turn people off.

There is a promotion here in Sydney that went viral briefly because they had Pikachu wrestle a match and beat up legitimate wrestlers by doing a Thundershock on them and following it up with a moonsault. Got hits in the six figures and they were running a hall in Western Sydney. Know where they are today for being different? Still in that same 100 seat hall in front of the same 70-80 customers.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW to build their audience significantly could try going in a different direction to WWE which is what lead to WCW being successful. Eric Bischoff tells a story of how he locked himself in a room, watched the WWF and made a long list of things he could do to be different from the WWE. EG they were taped so he went live, they were very cartoonish he became serious etc.
> 
> AEW comes off as WWE Lite a lot of the time. WWE does cinematic matches so AEW does them, WWE does nostalgia so AEW brings guys back for nostalgia, WWE runs arenas with slick production value so AEW does the same.
> 
> I've commented before that if I was in charge of AEW I'd run arenas but dim the lights giving that more intimate feeling and a different vibe than the WWE, instead of doing stupid comedy bits like the WWE does I'd be more serious just like Uncle Eric did in 1995, I'd focus on being the mecca for tag team wrestling (Which AEW kind of is but Best Friends are expected to win the tag titles soon which is a massive step back), I'd focus on just being the best serious wrestling in the country so that when people tune in and see my shit they'd be like "This definitely isn't WWE but I like it". They also might want to cut match times because nobody except hardcore smart marks are into the idea of 2-3 15+ minute wrestling matches on a week to week basis.
> 
> The ending of this past weeks show with Orange Cassidy taking off all the camera gear and attacking Jericho is a total WWE move so was the week prior with Jake Hager casually strolling out and Cody magically being able to read his mind and know what he wants and when he wants it. Total WWE moves.
> 
> You're correct in that most promotions couldn't find a unique angle because mostly everything has been done but I'm not a big believer in different being automatically good. I think that's where wrestling goes wrong these days you have so many guys just trying to be different whether it makes sense or not because they think different means ratings or tickets sold but in reality most of the things that are different today turn people off.
> 
> There is a promotion here in Sydney that went viral briefly because they had Pikachu wrestle a match and beat up legitimate wrestlers by doing a Thundershock on them and following it up with a moonsault. Got hits in the six figures and they were running a hall in Western Sydney. Know where they are today for being different? Still in that same 100 seat hall in front of the same 70-80 customers.


What can they really do differently at this point though? Like you said, they can't just throw shit at the wall for the sake of being as different as possible and hope it works when you have millions of dollars on the line. Yeah its good to take risks in different scenarios in life and business, but not with a wrestling promotion in the beginning. They have to do the things that have proven successful in the past, then adapt from there once things are flowing the way they want it to. It was the same with TNA. They essentially ran their shows like WWE, THEN they started to adapt with things like the crazy X Division gimmick matches and Monsters Ball. WCW was pretty much the same as WWF too. They were successful because they signed all of the biggest stars in wrestling history. The show itself though was very similar to WWF/WWE. They could dim the lights like you said for a more intimate feel, but do you not want to see the live audience going crazy? Wouldn't that be a misfire for a lot of people?

Only thing they can do is go the route of Lucha underground, which would be pretty dope, but that's all cinematic for the most part too.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW to build their audience significantly could try going in a different direction to WWE which is what lead to WCW being successful. Eric Bischoff tells a story of how he locked himself in a room, watched the WWF and made a long list of things he could do to be different from the WWE. EG they were taped so he went live, they were very cartoonish he became serious etc.
> 
> AEW comes off as WWE Lite a lot of the time. WWE does cinematic matches so AEW does them, WWE does nostalgia so AEW brings guys back for nostalgia, WWE runs arenas with slick production value so AEW does the same.
> 
> I've commented before that if I was in charge of AEW I'd run arenas but dim the lights giving that more intimate feeling and a different vibe than the WWE, instead of doing stupid comedy bits like the WWE does I'd be more serious just like Uncle Eric did in 1995, I'd focus on being the mecca for tag team wrestling (Which AEW kind of is but Best Friends are expected to win the tag titles soon which is a massive step back), I'd focus on just being the best serious wrestling in the country so that when people tune in and see my shit they'd be like "This definitely isn't WWE but I like it". They also might want to cut match times because nobody except hardcore smart marks are into the idea of 2-3 15+ minute wrestling matches on a week to week basis.
> 
> The ending of this past weeks show with Orange Cassidy taking off all the camera gear and attacking Jericho is a total WWE move so was the week prior with Jake Hager casually strolling out and Cody magically being able to read his mind and know what he wants and when he wants it. Total WWE moves.
> 
> You're correct in that most promotions couldn't find a unique angle because mostly everything has been done but I'm not a big believer in different being automatically good. I think that's where wrestling goes wrong these days you have so many guys just trying to be different whether it makes sense or not because they think different means ratings or tickets sold but in reality most of the things that are different today turn people off.
> 
> There is a promotion here in Sydney that went viral briefly because they had Pikachu wrestle a match and beat up legitimate wrestlers by doing a Thundershock on them and following it up with a moonsault. Got hits in the six figures and they were running a hall in Western Sydney. Know where they are today for being different? Still in that same 100 seat hall in front of the same 70-80 customers.


I'll disagree about tag team wrestling, there's already too much on the show. Give me two persons going at it any day of the week over tag teams. For one thing, I think one on one matches takes more skills to pull off, you are on your own outthere. Whereas tag team wrestling, there's more choregraphy and you can basically spend time ploding until you do the hot tag. You always have a lifeline if it doesn't work. The suspense is also just better for one on one.


----------



## Wolf Mark

prosperwithdeen said:


> What can they really do differently at this point though? Like you said, they can't just throw shit at the wall for the sake of being as different as possible and hope it works when you have millions of dollars on the line. Yeah its good to take risks in different scenarios in life and business, but not with a wrestling promotion in the beginning. They have to do the things that have proven successful in the past, then adapt from there once things are flowing the way they want it to. It was the same with TNA. They essentially ran their shows like WWE, THEN they started to adapt with things like the crazy X Division gimmick matches and Monsters Ball. WCW was pretty much the same as WWF too. They were successful because they signed all of the biggest stars in wrestling history. The show itself though was very similar to WWF/WWE. They could dim the lights like you said for a more intimate feel, but do you not want to see the live audience going crazy? Wouldn't that be a misfire for a lot of people?
> 
> Only thing they can do is go the route of Lucha underground, which would be pretty dope, but that's all cinematic for the most part too.


I think it's difficult to go too different if you want to be in the game of big time wrestling. Cause when you want to go mainstream and get the largest audience as possible, you have to play the classic thropes of big time wrestling that you find in WWE and found in WCW. Nitro was playing the game but they were different enough that fans could still call it variety. The execution was pretty different in many ways. It had a different vibe. If you go too different then you risk having a niche product for a niche audience. I happen to think most of what AEW are doing is fine, they just need to thighten their booking and get rid of the comedy(unless it's a unique act once in a while). It's hard to judge right now what may happen to the audience until the crowds return.


----------



## Prosper

Wolf Mark said:


> I think it's difficult to go too different if you want to be in the game of big time wrestling. Cause when you want to go mainstream and get the largest audience as possible, you have to play the classic thropes of big time wrestling that you find in WWE and found in WCW. Nitro was playing the game but they were different enough that fans could still call it variety. The execution was pretty different in many ways. It had a different vibe. If you go too different then you risk having a niche product for a niche audience. I happen to think most of what AEW are doing is fine, they just need to thighten their booking and get rid of the comedy(unless it's a unique act once in a while). It's hard to judge right now what may happen to the audience until the crowds return.


I feel the same way. If you're not gonna go the LU route, I just think that wrestling fans will always want that traditional live feel to the show with a slight variance in presentation, which AEW has been doing great at IMO. For example all of their PPV's have brought back the big match feel and all feel important, which is a huge variance, because that has been missing for 10+ years. Another example is the way they book their heels. They're not all chickenshits. Jericho fought Moxley face to face in multiple segments. He also fought Cody and didn't run away which is a style of booking that has also been gone for far too long. Not saying that heels can't run away, but in WWE every heel is booked like a chickenshit and it gets old. 85%+ of Dynamite episodes carry an air of fun and importance to them. I'm sure they could do more to be different, but that will just come down to who brings those ideas to the table.

Big-time wrestling will always be in the format that it's currently in. You stray too far away from that and you end up with something that doesn't feel like what you grew up loving. Was the same with TNA and WCW as said before. I don't know what more they could do to be different outside of their own style of gimmick matches.


----------



## Wolf Mark

prosperwithdeen said:


> I feel the same way. If you're not gonna go the LU route, I just think that wrestling fans will always want that traditional live feel to the show with a slight variance in presentation, which AEW has been doing great at IMO. For example all of their PPV's have brought back the big match feel and all feel important, which is a huge variance, because that has been missing for 10+ years. Another example is the way they book their heels. They're not all chickenshits. Jericho fought Moxley face to face in multiple segments. He also fought Cody and didn't run away which is a style of booking that has also been gone for far too long. Not saying that heels can't run away, but in WWE every heel is booked like a chickenshit and it gets old. 85%+ of Dynamite episodes carry an air of fun and importance to them. I'm sure they could do more to be different, but that will just come down to who brings those ideas to the table.
> 
> Big-time wrestling will always be in the format that it's currently in. You stray too far away from that and you end up with something that doesn't feel like what you grew up loving. Was the same with TNA and WCW as said before. I don't know what more they could do to be different outside of their own style of gimmick matches.


Yea in the case of the WWE that is something that always annoyed me, the chicken shit heels. You have the same person and the woman they turn heel they suddenly become chicken shit? makes no sense to me. Same thing the way that the moment someone turn heel that person stop being able to win matches clean. This always frustrated me in wrestling, even at the things that I liked. Like for instance Hulk Hogan was invincible and sure the "Hulkamaniacs" helped him with their support but I never liked the way that the moment he became heel, he lost all his power and could not win without cheating. I mean the guy was still 6 foot 5. lol He should be able to handle himself.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> What can they really do differently at this point though? Like you said, they can't just throw shit at the wall for the sake of being as different as possible and hope it works when you have millions of dollars on the line. Yeah its good to take risks in different scenarios in life and business, but not with a wrestling promotion in the beginning. They have to do the things that have proven successful in the past, then adapt from there once things are flowing the way they want it to. It was the same with TNA. They essentially ran their shows like WWE, THEN they started to adapt with things like the crazy X Division gimmick matches and Monsters Ball. WCW was pretty much the same as WWF too. They were successful because they signed all of the biggest stars in wrestling history. The show itself though was very similar to WWF/WWE. They could dim the lights like you said for a more intimate feel, but do you not want to see the live audience going crazy? Wouldn't that be a misfire for a lot of people?
> 
> Only thing they can do is go the route of Lucha underground, which would be pretty dope, but that's all cinematic for the most part too.


If Tony Khan called me this time last year and said "Hey Chip, we want you to come in and be the executive producer of our TV show" I'd do a lot differently. Let me name some for you to show just how simple it can be.

- As mentioned in my original post we go away from a WWE type production (As nice as it looks) and go in a grittier direction. Not underground style but dim the lights, show maybe the first 2-3 rows of the crowd, nice lighting and set up but make it look different from WWE. To be honest, stage production isn't my strong suit so I'd be looking to hire someone who is really into that and knows their shit on the topic and bring them in to create an aesthetic that I'd really like.

- The stories are going to be different to WWE also so instead of stupid WWE type segments like Jericho arguing with the drone, Matt Hardy changing gimmicks underwater, Sammy being the biggest goof imaginable we instead see stuff like Jericho and The Inner Circle putting the boots to Matt Hardy in the parking lot and breaking his ribs with a bat, we see FTR debut and instead of refusing to pull the trigger on them we immediately have them fuck shit up in some capacity and establish that they are unhappy, we build a set (Or hire one) and every week we get an update on Brodie Lee and his cult but it's all propaganda and we know it's propaganda but eventually someone infiltrates the cult and we see Brodie Lee being an abusive asshole to his minions etc.

- We do video packages with guys and give the viewer back stories and reasons as to why we should care about these guys. Have guys feud over things such as different beliefs or massive personal differences as opposed to the lazy booking we're seeing right now. 

- In terms of producing content (My actual strong suit) I'd go with punchier segments. 15-20 minute match on TV would be a rarity and only between two really strong competitors. Instead we'd have more 8-10 minute matches and even 5-6 minute matches every week. Punchier segments means the audience is less likely to tune out if they don't like something because they know it'll be quickly over. I'd also go out on location quite often as well because to my knowledge WWE doesn't do that often.

----

In regards to your question about the live crowd their reaction is enough. We don't need to see them. The audience enhance the live show not the other way around.



Wolf Mark said:


> I'll disagree about tag team wrestling, there's already too much on the show. Give me two persons going at it any day of the week over tag teams. For one thing, I think one on one matches takes more skills to pull off, you are on your own outthere. Whereas tag team wrestling, there's more choregraphy and you can basically spend time ploding until you do the hot tag. You always have a lifeline if it doesn't work. The suspense is also just better for one on one.


I can agree to an extent but it's the one thing they do different than the WWE and are better at.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Tony Khan called me this time last year and said "Hey Chip, we want you to come in and be the executive producer of our TV show" I'd do a lot differently. Let me name some for you to show just how simple it can be.
> 
> - As mentioned in my original post we go away from a WWE type production (As nice as it looks) and go in a grittier direction. Not underground style but dim the lights, show maybe the first 2-3 rows of the crowd, nice lighting and set up but make it look different from WWE. To be honest, stage production isn't my strong suit so I'd be looking to hire someone who is really into that and knows their shit on the topic and bring them in to create an aesthetic that I'd really like.
> 
> - The stories are going to be different to WWE also so instead of stupid WWE type segments like Jericho arguing with the drone, Matt Hardy changing gimmicks underwater, Sammy being the biggest goof imaginable we instead see stuff like Jericho and The Inner Circle putting the boots to Matt Hardy in the parking lot and breaking his ribs with a bat, we see FTR debut and instead of refusing to pull the trigger on them we immediately have them fuck shit up in some capacity and establish that they are unhappy, we build a set (Or hire one) and every week we get an update on Brodie Lee and his cult but it's all propaganda and we know it's propaganda but eventually someone infiltrates the cult and we see Brodie Lee being an abusive asshole to his minions etc.
> 
> - We do video packages with guys and give the viewer back stories and reasons as to why we should care about these guys. Have guys feud over things such as different beliefs or massive personal differences as opposed to the lazy booking we're seeing right now.
> 
> - In terms of producing content (My actual strong suit) I'd go with punchier segments. 15-20 minute match on TV would be a rarity and only between two really strong competitors. Instead we'd have more 8-10 minute matches and even 5-6 minute matches every week. Punchier segments means the audience is less likely to tune out if they don't like something because they know it'll be quickly over. I'd also go out on location quite often as well because to my knowledge WWE doesn't do that often.
> 
> ----
> 
> In regards to your question about the live crowd their reaction is enough. We don't need to see them. The audience enhance the live show not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> I can agree to an extent but it's the one thing they do different than the WWE and are better at.


Too bad Cornette has been exposed as maybe a potential Weinstein. Your own ideas are just meh


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Too bad Cornette has been exposed as maybe a potential Weinstein. Your own ideas are just meh


1. What has this got to do with Cornette apart from you just trying to troll? 

2. How about you post 5 of your own ideas that would make AEW different and stand out? I see you're online now so lets give you 24 hours to post 5 ideas. I'll openly admit if you have a good idea.

I bet you don't take me up on my challenge


----------



## The Wood

Those ideas seem sane and logical, Chip.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Tony Khan called me this time last year and said "Hey Chip, we want you to come in and be the executive producer of our TV show" I'd do a lot differently. Let me name some for you to show just how simple it can be.
> 
> - As mentioned in my original post we go away from a WWE type production (As nice as it looks) and go in a grittier direction. Not underground style but dim the lights, show maybe the first 2-3 rows of the crowd, nice lighting and set up but make it look different from WWE. To be honest, stage production isn't my strong suit so I'd be looking to hire someone who is really into that and knows their shit on the topic and bring them in to create an aesthetic that I'd really like.
> 
> - The stories are going to be different to WWE also so instead of stupid WWE type segments like Jericho arguing with the drone, Matt Hardy changing gimmicks underwater, Sammy being the biggest goof imaginable we instead see stuff like Jericho and The Inner Circle putting the boots to Matt Hardy in the parking lot and breaking his ribs with a bat, we see FTR debut and instead of refusing to pull the trigger on them we immediately have them fuck shit up in some capacity and establish that they are unhappy, we build a set (Or hire one) and every week we get an update on Brodie Lee and his cult but it's all propaganda and we know it's propaganda but eventually someone infiltrates the cult and we see Brodie Lee being an abusive asshole to his minions etc.
> 
> - We do video packages with guys and give the viewer back stories and reasons as to why we should care about these guys. Have guys feud over things such as different beliefs or massive personal differences as opposed to the lazy booking we're seeing right now.
> 
> - In terms of producing content (My actual strong suit) I'd go with punchier segments. 15-20 minute match on TV would be a rarity and only between two really strong competitors. Instead we'd have more 8-10 minute matches and even 5-6 minute matches every week. Punchier segments means the audience is less likely to tune out if they don't like something because they know it'll be quickly over. I'd also go out on location quite often as well because to my knowledge WWE doesn't do that often.
> 
> ----
> 
> In regards to your question about the live crowd their reaction is enough. We don't need to see them. The audience enhance the live show not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> I can agree to an extent but it's the one thing they do different than the WWE and are better at.


you’ll sell out a 10k arena, and only show the first 3 rows of the crowd?


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ll sell out a 10k arena, and only show the first 3 rows of the crowd?


You show the crowd initially, but you can lower the lights during matches.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> You show the crowd initially, but you can lower the lights during matches.


Yeah, this. Kind of like the theatre when the show starts the lights fade. You could kick off Dynamite with the big pyro and show the thousands in attendance but then get to the ring and dim the lights. It creates a really cool aesthetic effect that I can't really describe but you can see it a lot in a heap of different productions.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, this. Kind of like the theatre when the show starts the lights fade. You could kick off Dynamite with the big pyro and show the thousands in attendance but then get to the ring and dim the lights. It creates a really cool aesthetic effect that I can't really describe but you can see it a lot in a heap of different productions.


Big advantage aew has its an arena show - much big feel than the studio. You want to remove that advantage - that's stupid


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Big advantage aew has its an arena show - much big feel than the studio. You want to remove that advantage - that's stupid


Pippen, why not post 5 of your own ideas?

Again, you don't understand. AEW is an arena show, who does a better arena show than WWE? How many people saw the Mike Tyson thing and thought AEW was WWE? 

If it looks different people will assume different.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Pippen, why not post 5 of your own ideas?
> 
> Again, you don't understand. AEW is an arena show, who does a better arena show than WWE? How many people saw the Mike Tyson thing and thought AEW was WWE?
> 
> If it looks different people will assume different.


Mate, even after 582 posts I don't think he's expressed five opinions on anything.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Mate, even after 582 posts I don't think he's expressed five opinions on anything.


4 hours later

@Pippen94, comment? How about five ideas?


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> 4 hours later
> 
> @Pippen94, comment? How about five ideas?


I wouldn't expect much from him. Every time you ask them to explain their side they'll say "I don't need to do that because you're a troll". Fun stuff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, this. Kind of like the theatre when the show starts the lights fade. You could kick off Dynamite with the big pyro and show the thousands in attendance but then get to the ring and dim the lights. It creates a really cool aesthetic effect that I can't really describe but you can see it a lot in a heap of different productions.


but half the people here were shouting not 3 months ago to ‘light up the crowd like in the 80s’ and that they hated mood lighting


----------



## Danielallen1410

Thing is your ideas are ways to improve ideas that are already there.

its a lot easier to correct an idea that already isn’t good in your eyes than to come up with a brand new one altogether, would you have thought of any of those angles this time 
last year?


----------



## Aedubya

Where is the Sammy Guevara thread?
Mine got locked as there already was one but i dont see it anywhere?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Aedubya said:


> Where is the Sammy Guevara thread?
> Mine got locked as there already was one but i dont see it anywhere?


nor do i
do you have people on block?









Sammy Guevara Suspended


He can be apologetic and agree with the fact that this is still being blown out of proportion by some people. Some think that he actually wanted/attempted to rape her bloody. No, they just want to keep battling until they finally get him cancelled.




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> I wouldn't expect much from him. Every time you ask them to explain their side they'll say "I don't need to do that because you're a troll". Fun stuff.


Do you think following me across forum making negative comments after all my posts constitutes bullying?
I do


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Big advantage aew has its an arena show - much big feel than the studio. You want to remove that advantage - that's stupid


No, it‘s not. It can add atmosphere. Dimming the lights doesn’t mean you lose all sense of scope. You’d still be in a huge arena and hear thiusdands



LifeInCattleClass said:


> but half the people here were shouting not 3 months ago to ‘light up the crowd like in the 80s’ and that they hated mood lighting


Actually, dimming the lights during matches is quite an old school idea. It focuses the attention on the in-ring. Not sure who that half of the forum was, but I’m not sure I would listen to them. No offence.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Tony Khan called me this time last year and said "Hey Chip, we want you to come in and be the executive producer of our TV show" I'd do a lot differently. Let me name some for you to show just how simple it can be.
> 
> - As mentioned in my original post we go away from a WWE type production (As nice as it looks) and go in a grittier direction. Not underground style but dim the lights, show maybe the first 2-3 rows of the crowd, nice lighting and set up but make it look different from WWE. To be honest, stage production isn't my strong suit so I'd be looking to hire someone who is really into that and knows their shit on the topic and bring them in to create an aesthetic that I'd really like.


I would say no way to dimming the crowd, but stage production being different could be cool. They have the tunnels which is different from the norm, but I don't know how costly it would be to do something crazy with the stage every week, that's why the drastic set changes are usually left for the PPV's.



Chip Chipperson said:


> - The stories are going to be different to WWE also so instead of stupid WWE type segments like Jericho arguing with the drone, Matt Hardy changing gimmicks underwater, Sammy being the biggest goof imaginable we instead see stuff like Jericho and The Inner Circle putting the boots to Matt Hardy in the parking lot and breaking his ribs with a bat, we see FTR debut and instead of refusing to pull the trigger on them we immediately have them fuck shit up in some capacity and establish that they are unhappy, we build a set (Or hire one) and every week we get an update on Brodie Lee and his cult but it's all propaganda and we know it's propaganda but eventually someone infiltrates the cult and we see Brodie Lee being an abusive asshole to his minions etc.


This is WWE lite. Bad News Barett, WWE's weekly in-ring talk shows with KO, Jericho, Alexa Bliss and Bray Wyatt's funhouse segments are equivalent to the propaganda segments you're proposing. 

We saw Inner Circle pin Nick Jackson under a garage door, which is equivalent to breaking Matt Hardy's ribs. Some of the comedy needs to be toned down, but 85-90% of their booking hasn't been like the stuff you pointed out. 

FTR coming out and immediately destroying everyone in sight is how WWE debuts every single tag team they have. That also screams WWE-Lite. In AEW, FTR didn't go the typical route of a beatdown, and they actually swerved the audience who thought they would kill the Bucks right off the bat. Now we are left guessing as to whether they are face or heel or if the Bucks are gonna turn first. That is a far cry from what we get in WWE and an effort to actually do things differently. Now it's not predictable. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> - We do video packages with guys and give the viewer back stories and reasons as to why we should care about these guys. Have guys feud over things such as different beliefs or massive personal differences as opposed to the lazy booking we're seeing right now.


I agree with this. The top guys should all have video packages like the Sonny Kiss/Janela vignettes. Or like the one they just did with Anna Jay. If Hangman were to get a cowboy type vignette or if Omega were to get one where he is walking through Japan "finding himself" again, that would be dope AF. This is definitely something I want to see AEW doing with their top stars in the future. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> - In terms of producing content (My actual strong suit) I'd go with punchier segments. 15-20 minute match on TV would be a rarity and only between two really strong competitors. Instead we'd have more 8-10 minute matches and even 5-6 minute matches every week. Punchier segments means the audience is less likely to tune out if they don't like something because they know it'll be quickly over. I'd also go out on location quite often as well because to my knowledge WWE doesn't do that often.


This is also WWE copying all the way. You wouldn't know because you haven't watched them in forever. WWE gets a lot of shit for their 5-8 minute matches because they don't give their matches time to breathe or enough time for a story to develop. There's nothing wrong with the longer matches when it makes sense. AEW has struggled with some of their matches getting more time than they should, but at the same time, a lot of their match lengths are justified and make sense. It hasn't been black and white in that regard. Makes the show feel more important or like they're not just doing matches as throwaways for the sake of filling TV time. Matches matter on Dynamite for the most part. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> In regards to your question about the live crowd their reaction is enough. We don't need to see them. The audience enhance the live show not the other way around.


No way my guy we NEED to see the crowd. They're a huge part of the show and one of the best parts of the viewing experience. Imagine Taker's streak ending without the crowd reactions or Shawn Michaels return to wrestling and World Title win at the Elimination Chamber with no fan visuals. It completely kills half of the moment and the hype. Or HBK vs Taker at WM25 without the full crowd experience or Jericho winning the title against Triple H on RAW with the fans damn near jumping the barrier. Or in AEW imagine the Omega/Hangman vs Bucks match without the visual of the crowd freaking out when Kenny kicked out at 1 so deep into the match or Moxley making his debut walking through the audience. You're taking away a lot of the hype that comes with the experience of viewing the show live. By taking away the visual of the crowd, you might as well have empty arena pandemic shows even during normal circumstances.


----------



## The Wood

Hang on, no one is saying get rid of the crowd, haha. They’re just saying dim the lights. Do people know what that means? You’d still be able to hear them/know they are there. You wouldn’t get any WWE-style shot of middle-aged geeks putting their hands to their cheeks when someone kicks out of a finisher, but you would still have atmosphere — more so than with the lights demystifying everything.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Hang on, no one is saying get rid of the crowd, haha. They’re just saying dim the lights. Do people know what that means? You’d still be able to hear them/know they are there. You wouldn’t get any WWE-style shot of middle-aged geeks putting their hands to their cheeks when someone kicks out of a finisher, but you would still have atmosphere — more so than with the lights demystifying everything.


Personally I wouldn't even dim it. I can see the allure that Chip is talking about though. I want to see everyone lol. Even the idiots "reacting" in the crowd.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> Thing is your ideas are ways to improve ideas that are already there.
> 
> its a lot easier to correct an idea that already isn’t good in your eyes than to come up with a brand new one altogether, would you have thought of any of those angles this time
> last year?


These are ideas I had before AEW launched upon watching their debut PPV whenever that was. I don't think I was a member here then and if I was I was pretty inactive just doing more reading than posting as opposed to now where I post frequently.

The stuff with their creative has come from watching their TV show but I always would've gone in that direction because I do think it's the best style of wrestling.



Pippen94 said:


> Do you think following me across forum making negative comments after all my posts constitutes bullying?
> I do


You regularly put others down (Good example is from last night in this very thread). If he's a bully you most definitely are.

Did you have 5 ideas or not really? You shouldn't be able to criticise and say ideas suck but when push comes to shove just run away and not answer. It's not very fair.



prosperwithdeen said:


> I would say no way to dimming the crowd, but stage production being different could be cool. They have the tunnels which is different from the norm, but I don't know how costly it would be to do something crazy with the stage every week, that's why the drastic set changes are usually left for the PPV's.
> 
> 
> 
> This is WWE lite. Bad News Barett, WWE's weekly in-ring talk shows with KO, Jericho, Alexa Bliss and Bray Wyatt's funhouse segments are equivalent to the propaganda segments you're proposing.
> 
> We saw Inner Circle pin Nick Jackson under a garage door, which is equivalent to breaking Matt Hardy's ribs. Some of the comedy needs to be toned down, but 85-90% of their booking hasn't been like the stuff you pointed out.
> 
> FTR coming out and immediately destroying everyone in sight is how WWE debuts every single tag team they have. That also screams WWE-Lite. In AEW, FTR didn't go the typical route of a beatdown, and they actually swerved the audience who thought they would kill the Bucks right off the bat. Now we are left guessing as to whether they are face or heel or if the Bucks are gonna turn first. That is a far cry from what we get in WWE and an effort to actually do things differently. Now it's not predictable.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. The top guys should all have video packages like the Sonny Kiss/Janela vignettes. Or like the one they just did with Anna Jay. If Hangman were to get a cowboy type vignette or if Omega were to get one where he is walking through Japan "finding himself" again, that would be dope AF. This is definitely something I want to see AEW doing with their top stars in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> This is also WWE copying all the way. You wouldn't know because you haven't watched them in forever. WWE gets a lot of shit for their 5-8 minute matches because they don't give their matches time to breathe or enough time for a story to develop. There's nothing wrong with the longer matches when it makes sense. AEW has struggled with some of their matches getting more time than they should, but at the same time, a lot of their match lengths are justified and make sense. It hasn't been black and white in that regard. Makes the show feel more important or like they're not just doing matches as throwaways for the sake of filling TV time. Matches matter on Dynamite for the most part.
> 
> 
> 
> No way my guy we NEED to see the crowd. They're a huge part of the show and one of the best parts of the viewing experience. Imagine Taker's streak ending without the crowd reactions or Shawn Michaels return to wrestling and World Title win at the Elimination Chamber with no fan visuals. It completely kills half of the moment and the hype. Or HBK vs Taker at WM25 without the full crowd experience or Jericho winning the title against Triple H on RAW with the fans damn near jumping the barrier. Or in AEW imagine the Omega/Hangman vs Bucks match without the visual of the crowd freaking out when Kenny kicked out at 1 so deep into the match or Moxley making his debut walking through the audience. You're taking away a lot of the hype that comes with the experience of viewing the show live. By taking away the visual of the crowd, you might as well have empty arena pandemic shows even during normal circumstances.


Finally a good post to go back and forth with about my ideas.

- Don't have to do something crazy with the stage every week just make it stand out and be different. That could be as simple as darkening certain areas and lighting others up. As I said before I'm really not a stage production guy but I'd work with someone to improve that. Not because AEW are bad at it but mainly because it looks very similar to WWE.

- Yeah, I know The Inner Circle used to be bad ass thugs that were keen to kick some ass but I was thinking that should be something that is done more regularly. I know we got Cage & Moxley in the parking lot which was a cool idea but the week after it was just talking again. We should see constant escalation before the big match and guys with genuine differences and fighting because of them. The story between Cage and Moxley right now is that Cage won the ladder match, Taz reckons Cage will win, Moxley doesn't think so. Boring.

- The Dark Order is a very WWE idea but if we're going to be stuck with it and we're going to keep doing it then produce some content to go along with it. We're several months into the story now but have seen such little forward momentum with it all and now it's just there. Also, the way these segments are produced in terms of shooting, camera work etc can be made not to be like WWE at all. The idea of a cult leader sneaking a camera in and catching dodgy shit going on as Brodie Lee puts on a big smile and "Everything is fine" speech every week on TV would be different than WWE who would probably shoot it with an invisible cameraman in the room.

- I know some liked the FTR debut but they don't need to immediately strike The Bucks to make an impact. They could've been up Butcher and Blade leading to a match the following week (Which happened anyway) and eventually have that staredown with The Bucks and go from there. FTR just seem like other guys on the roster now and they've only been there for like a month.

- Good agents is what comes down to making 6-8 minute matches mean something but I'm a big believer in the concept. I don't watch AEW on TV due to be an international viewer but if I was watching on TV and I saw The Bucks come out I would know that I have at least 10 minutes to channel surf, go to the bathroom, eat, drink etc. All the matches are predictably long, over the top and drawn out. 5-8 minutes with a 10-15 minute main event is more than fine but I guess it comes down to preference. Personally I hate long matches unless it's on PPV.

- As pointed out by The Wood above I'm not saying eliminate the crowd I'm saying make it more like a smokey arena. Pyro and excitement, we cut to the announcers who hype the card and then the lights dim in the ring in anticipation for the matches. Lets be real, the AEW crowd don't scream "Cool people" they are pretty much the epitome of wrestling nerds so going to them less but still having their reaction is win win for all. Plus, the most positive thing is that it looks different to WWE.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Finally a good post to go back and forth with about my ideas.
> 
> - Don't have to do something crazy with the stage every week just make it stand out and be different. That could be as simple as darkening certain areas and lighting others up. As I said before I'm really not a stage production guy but I'd work with someone to improve that. Not because AEW are bad at it but mainly because it looks very similar to WWE.
> 
> - Yeah, I know The Inner Circle used to be bad ass thugs that were keen to kick some ass but I was thinking that should be something that is done more regularly. I know we got Cage & Moxley in the parking lot which was a cool idea but the week after it was just talking again. We should see constant escalation before the big match and guys with genuine differences and fighting because of them. The story between Cage and Moxley right now is that Cage won the ladder match, Taz reckons Cage will win, Moxley doesn't think so. Boring.
> 
> - The Dark Order is a very WWE idea but if we're going to be stuck with it and we're going to keep doing it then produce some content to go along with it. We're several months into the story now but have seen such little forward momentum with it all and now it's just there. Also, the way these segments are produced in terms of shooting, camera work etc can be made not to be like WWE at all. The idea of a cult leader sneaking a camera in and catching dodgy shit going on as Brodie Lee puts on a big smile and "Everything is fine" speech every week on TV would be different than WWE who would probably shoot it with an invisible cameraman in the room.
> 
> - I know some liked the FTR debut but they don't need to immediately strike The Bucks to make an impact. They could've been up Butcher and Blade leading to a match the following week (Which happened anyway) and eventually have that staredown with The Bucks and go from there. FTR just seem like other guys on the roster now and they've only been there for like a month.
> 
> - Good agents is what comes down to making 6-8 minute matches mean something but I'm a big believer in the concept. I don't watch AEW on TV due to be an international viewer but if I was watching on TV and I saw The Bucks come out I would know that I have at least 10 minutes to channel surf, go to the bathroom, eat, drink etc. All the matches are predictably long, over the top and drawn out. 5-8 minutes with a 10-15 minute main event is more than fine but I guess it comes down to preference. Personally I hate long matches unless it's on PPV.
> 
> - As pointed out by The Wood above I'm not saying eliminate the crowd I'm saying make it more like a smokey arena. Pyro and excitement, we cut to the announcers who hype the card and then the lights dim in the ring in anticipation for the matches. Lets be real, the AEW crowd don't scream "Cool people" they are pretty much the epitome of wrestling nerds so going to them less but still having their reaction is win win for all. Plus, the most positive thing is that it looks different to WWE.


-Having some slight changes would be cool for a more different feel. For me though, it feels different enough with the way the ramp is set up and the double tunnels. They have different style barricades and their ringside tables are different. It comes off as an alternate arena from the norm, feels more old school, but that's just me. Titantron videos also come off better on TV. More would be welcome though such as more enhanced light shows during entrances. 

-Getting more detailed with feuds would also be cool. Outside of this feud with Mox/Cage which has been pretty basic, I think AEW has done a good job with making most of their feuds more than just "I want to take your title". Jake/Archer and Cody had a deep feud with Jakes promos and the Jake/Brandi segment, Cody and Jericho had a deep feud with all the "I'll never challenge again stuff", Jericho and Moxley had the eye patch and Moxley running through IC members one at a time stuff, Cody and MJF's feud was semi deep with the cage match and the lashings, Omega/Hangman/Bucks was deep as well with the inner Elite turmoil, Page being drunk, Omega being split between sides, etc. More of that detail would be welcome also, because feuds like Mox/Omega, Omega/PAC, and Mox/Cage have been on the more basic side. Sometimes its good to have a mix though. 

-I agree that Dark Order needs more. They're in a recruiting phase now so once Colt Cabana, Anna Jay, and maybe a couple of others are on the "frontline" to the Dark Order we can hopefully get some more intriguing stuff. The fact that Anna Jay is in the Dark Order is intriguing in itself. I feel like they're gonna make this thing huge with DO honestly. Brodie is probably gonna recruit another 4 mid-carders and possibly even one of the Elite. If Brodie recruits Hangman, then I would say that will make DO a success short term. Then they can run an angle down the line where they all break up. I'm still not a fan of the faction, but they could make it work if they wanted to. 

-I disagree on this. FTR still feel like big deals, especially after their smashmouth match with Butcher and Blade. We don't see that type of match much anymore. The fact that they are the only guys on the roster to not do the flippy diving shit sets them apart and makes them feel like one of the top teams, especially when they are interacting with the self-proclaimed top team in the world in the Bucks. We were probably gonna get a huge 8 man tag at Fyter Fest (FTR/Bucks vs DeathSquad/BnB) which I think they would have dominated, but Havoc is gone to rehab now.

-If we can have someone come in to make this type of match work, then I'd be all for it. WWE has killed the concept of short matches dead for most though, which is unfortunate. 

-If they were to dim the crowd, I would only want it for the ring introductions, for the big match spotlight feel. Then turn the lights back on lol. Smoke would be dope too. I like the fan visual and I don't think they should mess with it too much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

You guys should do a fantasy booking thread or something - i’ll play there too


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Do you think following me across forum making negative comments after all my posts constitutes bullying?
> I do


Wahhhhhhhh! Poor guy.

You've spent the majority of your 588 posts calling us trolls, pointing that out isn't bullying. Jesus Christ, maybe it's a good idea that you don't have your own opinions..


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You guys should do a fantasy booking thread or something - i’ll play there too


We have done plenty of it. You just have us on ignore


----------



## The Wood

I think one of the more frustrating things about wrestling right now is that you could just present it slightly differently and it would not only be better, but it would get better results. That goes for AEW _and_ WWE. There are some questionable talent being given significant roles in AEW, but largely the talent is there across the board. If you stopped trying to get them to present themselves as wannabe comedians, things would probably naturally get more fruitful.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I'm afraid if they dim the light, it's gonna look like Impact or ROH. If you want to show that your are big time, you need to show the big crowds.


----------



## The Wood

You show the big crowds. You have announcers there (“10,000 people are going crazy!”), you can look more professional with good lighting. Has anyone hear walked into a building with thousands of people in it even though it’s dark? You know there are people there.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

No surprises here but @Pippen94 never posted five of his own ideas but is more than happy to shit on everyone elses.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> No surprises here but @Pippen94 never posted five of his own ideas but is more than happy to shit on everyone elses.


maybe because it is not the place for it?

make a fantasy booking thread mate / nobody wants discussions about 5 ideas or whatever in a ratings thread

even less so the constant calling out about it

if you make a thread, i’ll post 5 ideas


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe because it is not the place for it?
> 
> make a fantasy booking thread mate / nobody wants discussions about 5 ideas or whatever in a ratings thread
> 
> even less so the constant calling out about it
> 
> if you make a thread, i’ll post 5 ideas


Was interested in his views after shitting on mine. Lets not pretend he didn't post because it's not the place. He got called out and didn't respond because he has no ideas which is fine but if you're going to shit then do so with at least something to back your idea up.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> You show the big crowds. You have announcers there (“10,000 people are going crazy!”), you can look more professional with good lighting. Has anyone hear walked into a building with thousands of people in it even though it’s dark? You know there are people there.


I have. Didn’t like it, felt too awkward. They mostly do that kind of thing for like some comedy shows or theater. Broadway makes sense. I don't think it would come off well for a wrestling show though. That’s like dimming the crowd for a concert Or award show. You need to see and feel the energy of the people.


----------



## bdon

The Lakers began dimming the light at home games, and they’ve got celebrities in attendance. Helped create a big show, placing full attention on the court.

I like the idea, but I could easily see it falling flat for a wrestling show, especially an AEW show where the raucous crowds harken memories of Nitro. At the same time, less raucous crowd put an emphasis on a more serious product, which AEW doesn’t seem to want to do.

I can see both sides on this one, even if I would prefer the more serious product WITH the wild crowd.


----------



## rbl85

Maybe they can just "hide" the crowd just for the main events ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Was interested in his views after shitting on mine. Lets not pretend he didn't post because it's not the place. He got called out and didn't respond because he has no ideas which is fine but if you're going to shit then do so with at least something to back your idea up.


oh brother.... your ideas have been lost in the annals of this thread already

nobody is going back pages in order to dissect them

now I’m calling you out— put it in a thread So that we can actually discuss it

(calling out on the internet, what are we, 12?)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh brother.... your ideas have been lost in the annals of this thread already
> 
> nobody is going back pages in order to dissect them
> 
> now I’m calling you out— put it in a thread So that we can actually discuss it
> 
> (calling out on the internet, what are we, 12?)


I believe I only posted my ideas because I was directly asked so the few comments I received were fine. It was never a big thought out "How to save AEW" post but 4-5 quick things they could do to help the product.

You're welcome to do a fantasy booking thread I might even take part but don't want to make the thread because I find most AEW fans would probably just say AEW is already perfect or just book things that would annoy me PLUS I no doubt would get dragged over the coals for posting yet another "Negative thread" most likely by Pippen who is somehow here despite adding very little.

And yeah, I called him out, the dude comes here and shits on peoples ideas who just want improvement in product he deserves it. It's not an immature call out it's a legitimate one based on annoying forum behaviour. Pippen is one of the worst on here I don't think I've ever seen the guy post anything but "Hater".


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Double.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> I have. Didn’t like it, felt too awkward. They mostly do that kind of thing for like some comedy shows or theater. Broadway makes sense. I don't think it would come off well for a wrestling show though. That’s like dimming the crowd for a concert Or award show. You need to see and feel the energy of the people.


Wrestling used to do it all the time and it worked fine. This is a made up problem with it. You CAN feel the energy with the lights dimmed. Things are focused on the ring more, so there is arguably MORE energy, plus you don’t have middle-aged white people on TV trying to get themselves over as much.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh brother.... your ideas have been lost in the annals of this thread already
> 
> nobody is going back pages in order to dissect them
> 
> now I’m calling you out— put it in a thread So that we can actually discuss it
> 
> (calling out on the internet, what are we, 12?)


It’s not even about Chip’s specific ideas at this point (although prosperwithdeen did engage and I enjoyed reading them). It’s about Pippen taking shots at people for having ideas without having anything of his own.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Wrestling used to do it all the time and it worked fine. This is a made up problem with it. You CAN feel the energy with the lights dimmed. Things are focused on the ring more, so there is arguably MORE energy, plus you don’t have middle-aged white people on TV trying to get themselves over as much.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not even about Chip’s specific ideas at this point (although prosperwithdeen did engage and I enjoyed reading them). It’s about Pippen taking shots at people for having ideas without having anything of his own.


Yeah, as was said before if you have 5000 people in a building you're going to feel that energy. Musicians do it all the time and you can still see that thousands are in attendance but it has a different look, you can implement lighting, you can do several different things with the darkened crowd plus it has a different look which is the most important aspect. WWE is the company with the millions of dollars put into production and the lights on the crowd so why not get a little different with your millions in production?

And I'd be lying if it wasn't an ulterior motive to hide the crowd in hopes of making people think wrestling is cool. Nothing is more of a turn off to a TV audience than 45 year old obese man with AEW World Heavyweight Title cosplaying as his favourite wrestler.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> I believe I only posted my ideas because I was directly asked so the few comments I received were fine. It was never a big thought out "How to save AEW" post but 4-5 quick things they could do to help the product.
> 
> You're welcome to do a fantasy booking thread I might even take part but don't want to make the thread because I find most AEW fans would probably just say AEW is already perfect or just book things that would annoy me PLUS I no doubt would get dragged over the coals for posting yet another "Negative thread" most likely by Pippen who is somehow here despite adding very little.
> 
> And yeah, I called him out, the dude comes here and shits on peoples ideas who just want improvement in product he deserves it. It's not an immature call out it's a legitimate one based on annoying forum behaviour. Pippen is one of the worst on here I don't think I've ever seen the guy post anything but "Hater".


forgive me if I’m wrong but weren’t your ideas just tweeks to the story’s that already exist.

ita not clever to edit an idea, infact I’d say it’s quite easy, why don’t you come up with some original, never been done ideas that will move the needle?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> forgive me if I’m wrong but weren’t your ideas just tweeks to the story’s that already exist.
> 
> ita not clever to edit an idea, infact I’d say it’s quite easy, why don’t you come up with some original, never been done ideas that will move the needle?


Make a fantasy booking thread and I legitimately will and I'll even go one further and say it's better than the stuff you're seeing every week on Dynamite.

Just a note, Vince McMahon made his billions by taking good ideas and improving on them but overhauling production and changing the way you tell stories isn't really a minor idea.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Make a fantasy booking thread and I legitimately will and I'll even go one further and say it's better than the stuff you're seeing every week on Dynamite.
> 
> Just a note, Vince McMahon made his billions by taking good ideas and improving on them but overhauling production and changing the way you tell stories isn't really a minor idea.


yeah but that’s the thing it’s fantasy.

in a fantasy world you have no restrictions.

you can’t take into account whether the wrestler feels comfortable with what you are asking.

you can’t take into account injuries and pandemics 

you can’t take into account whether the tv network want a certain type of product.

you're criticising booking and claiming you can do better etc without any context.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Make a fantasy booking thread and I legitimately will and I'll even go one further and say it's better than the stuff you're seeing every week on Dynamite.
> 
> Just a note, Vince McMahon made his billions by taking good ideas and improving on them but overhauling production and changing the way you tell stories isn't really a minor idea.


Part of creative process is sharing & taking criticism particularly in wrestling where there are booking committees & writing teams - you may be too sensitive


----------



## rbl85

For those wondering why AEW still does shows even with the Covid :

Alvarez said on the Observer that he have been given the impression that if AEW does not produce new content their TV contract will be cancelled.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> For those wondering why AEW still does shows even with the Covid :
> 
> Alvarez said on the Observer that he have been given the impression that if AEW does not produce new content their TV contract will be cancelled.


Its probably the same with WWE. AEW also has an open-air arena, which makes it a little easier as far as airflow than WWE's Performance Center which is closed off.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Aew:633K
Nxt: 786k.


The streak is ova.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW got murdered 😂


----------



## Not Lying

Considering the surge in Covid Cases, and possibility of another lockdown, i would advise AEW to do big tapings again similar to the 8h ones they did before. Use it or not, but do it as a precaution.

Ratings: Ouch.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Oh NXT attracted a greater boomer crowd this week than normal 🤔


----------



## RainmakerV2

The go home to a double PPV too lol jeesh


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew:633K
> Nxt: 786k.
> 
> 
> The streak is ova.


The streak was already broken, no or you only talk about 2020 ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew:633K
> Nxt: 786k.
> 
> 
> The streak is ova.


Welli ts sad to lose to a developmental.


----------



## Erik.

Erik. said:


> Back up this week.
> 
> Back down next week.
> 
> Back up the following week.
> 
> Yada yada.


As predicted.

Back up next week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> The streak was already broken, no or you only talk about 2020 ?


AEW had won like 12 weeks in a row right?

The flaws in the mid card of AEWs roster are showing through. No one is ever gonna give a fuck about Joey Janela or Sonny Kiss lmao. Its ridiculous. Oh and some saviors FTR are.


----------



## rbl85

Guys where do you get the ratings ? can't find it on Showbuzz...

Thanks


----------



## Garty

Remember haters... ratings don't matter here.

Quick. Run. Man the lifeboats. Sound the alarm. We're going down.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW had won like 12 weeks in a row right?
> 
> The flaws in the mid card of AEWs roster are showing through. No one is ever gonna give a fuck about Joey Janela or Sonny Kiss lmao. Its ridiculous. Oh and some saviors FTR are.


I don't think AEW did that rating only because of them, it didn't help of course.


----------



## Garty

Ozell Gray said:


> Welli ts sad to lose to a developmental.


STOP CALLING IT DEVELOPMENTAL... IT'S CLASSIFIED AS THE 3RD BRAND...

Oh and they lost this week. What are they at now in 2020, 3-17.


----------



## AEW_19




----------



## RainmakerV2

Garty said:


> STOP CALLING IT DEVELOPMENTAL... IT'S CLASSIFIED AS THE 3RD BRAND...
> 
> Oh and they lost this week. What are they at now in 2020, 3-17.



Testy. Relax bro. Lol


----------



## Erik.

I wonder why such big fluctuations in losses and gains for AEW.

One week they'll get 700k, the next 600k, the occasional 800k etc. 

The other week, we had 1,500,000 tuning into wrestling on a Wednesday, this week 200,000 less.

Anyway, I watched both shows and enjoyed both. Pleased that NXT got a bump, it's only going to be good for wrestling.


----------



## Oracle

Good to see nobody gives a fuck about a comedy angle with your star Jericho.


----------



## rbl85

Personally i think AEW is going to lose for the next few weeks for mutiple reasons :

NXT viewers are older and usually they are less influenced by other programm
The Covid is coming back in full force in the news...
AEW might be back with a limited roster soon


----------



## PavelGaborik

Ugly rating for AEW this week. 

Next two weeks should be much better.


----------



## rbl85

Oracle said:


> Good to see nobody gives a fuck about a comedy angle with your star Jericho.


Because you think that it's the main event (we didn't know that it was going to be a main event) who's affecting the overall rating of a show ?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Not surprising. 

Why the fuck are they wasting their biggest name Chris Jericho on a literal clown?


----------



## TD Stinger

Well, that’s surprising. I mean NXT had narrowed the gap in recent weeks. But beating them by over 100k this week? Again, didn’t see that coming.

As the Forum’s resident Keith Lee mark I will give all credit to him even though I have nothing to back that up.


----------



## rbl85

PavelGaborik said:


> Ugly rating for AEW this week.
> 
> Next two weeks should be much better.


Well we have to hope because otherwise.....


----------



## RainmakerV2

TD Stinger said:


> Well, that’s surprising. I mean NXT had narrowed the gap in recent weeks. But beating them by over 100k this week? Again, didn’t see that coming.
> 
> As the Forum’s resident Keith Lee mark I will give all credit to him even though I have nothing to back that up.


Who was on NXT this week wasnt last week?



Tick tock.


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> Well, that’s surprising. I mean NXT had narrowed the gap in recent weeks. But beating them by over 100k this week? Again, didn’t see that coming.
> 
> As the Forum’s resident Keith Lee mark I will give all credit to him even though I have nothing to back that up.


Unless the main event did +1M, i don't think that it's all because of him XD


----------



## Danielallen1410

Not surprised last few shows have been boring as fuck, I’m not even watching anymore and six weeks ago I was a massive aew fan, three poor shows in a row and I’m out. I’ll tune back in if I hear anything good is going on.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who was on NXT this week wasnt last week?
> 
> 
> 
> Tick tock.


And who wasn't on AEW ?

Pineapple pete.


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> Not surprised last few shows have been boring as fuck, I’m not even watching anymore and six weeks ago I was a massive aew fan, *three poor shows in a row and I’m out*. I’ll tune back in if I hear anything good is going on.


I mean, if 3 poor show is enough for you to be out.....

Fortunately every wrestling fan is not like you because there would be not any wrestling show left XD


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> And who wasn't on AEW ?
> 
> Pineapple pete.



Thats fair. Cant be worse than Sonny Kiss.


----------



## TD Stinger

rbl85 said:


> Unless the main event did +1M, i don't think that it's all because of him XD


Hey, don’t question my non existent logic.


----------



## Erik.

If I WAS to try and find and excuse, I would probably argue that the ratings were down BECAUSE of the next two weeks booked specials. 

The cards were set. There wasn't going to be any special cliffhangers. Moxley wasn't going to be there. Cody wasn't in a match. No other title matches were on the line that could have potentially changed hands in the lead up. So why tune into this weeks episode? Probably the best opportunity to watch NXT without actually missing an important thing from the other show.

But I'm not going to argue that.

I believe that's AEW's lowest total and lowest demo ever.

So you can't argue or defend record lows.


----------



## Danielallen1410

rbl85 said:


> I mean, if 3 poor show is enough for you to be out.....
> 
> Fortunately every wrestling fan is not like you because there would be not any wrestling show left XD


ive not left for good but I don’t watch things that aren’t interesting. The Tyson episode was a good episode but since then it’s been dull, I watched half of last week and I’ve watched about half hour of this weeks on FITE and i can’t be arsed to watch the rest


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> If I WAS to try and find and excuse, I would probably argue that the ratings were down BECAUSE of the next two weeks booked specials.
> 
> The cards were set. There wasn't going to be any special cliffhangers. Moxley wasn't going to be there. Cody wasn't in a match. No other title matches were on the line that could have potentially changed hands in the lead up. So why tune into this weeks episode? Probably the best opportunity to watch NXT without actually missing an important thing from the other show.
> 
> But I'm not going to argue that.
> 
> I believe that's AEW's lowest total and lowest demo ever.
> 
> So you can't argue or defend record lows.


I think even the 18-49 demo of NXT is down so it's really 50+ people who didn't watch the weeks prior decided to watch NXT this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IamMark said:


> View attachment 88088


Lol

why did so many old people switch over to NXT?

sorry guyzz! Come back!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Oh NXT attracted a greater boomer crowd this week than normal 🤔


That Sasha difference mate

(was she on?)


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That Sasha difference mate
> 
> (was she on?)


Nope


----------



## fabi1982

Really interested in the breakdown this week. Either no one watched from the start or some big stinkers lost lots of viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That Sasha difference mate
> 
> (was she on?)


i mean they gave us keith lee vs balor v gargano

even if you dont watch NXT, that is one hell of a triple threat


----------



## Klitschko

Damn thats a low rating.


----------



## Garty

Here you go Ozell... straight from the man himself: HHH says...

Now, will you stop playing as if you're Peter Parker? Screamed at by J. Jonah Jameson, searching out the landscape for news to put on the front-page of The Bugle? Thank you Peter.


----------



## The XL 2

Jesus, they got bodied this week. I don't know what to say. They need to do something different. I don't think Moxley is a great world champ tbh. He's better off chasing, taking the belt off of Jericho was a mistake. Honestly I might pull the trigger with Brian Cage. He looks great and with Taz talking for him, he has a guy who can cut a great promo on his behalf.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> i mean they gave us keith lee vs balor v gargano
> 
> even if you dont watch NXT, that is one hell of a triple threat


Yes but that would not explain the gap


----------



## RainmakerV2

Garty said:


> Here you go Ozell... straight from the man himself: HHH says...
> 
> Now, will you stop playing as if you're Peter Parker? Screamed at by J. Jonah Jameson, searching out the landscape for news to put on the front-page of The Bugle? Thank you.



Of course Hunter would say that lol. Its his baby. Vince still sees it as developmental to feed his shows.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> I don't think AEW did that rating only because of them, it didn't help of course.


Sunny kiss and joey jonela segment may have done some damage,and aew has this sjw stigma on them.that they need to get rid of,and stop trying to appease the Twitter mob.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just a reminder of my stance on the numbers 










That being said - bit of a smack in the face this week, big oof!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> i mean they gave us keith lee vs balor v gargano
> 
> even if you dont watch NXT, that is one hell of a triple threat


Was it a good match in the end?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW had won like 12 weeks in a row right?
> 
> The flaws in the mid card of AEWs roster are showing through. No one is ever gonna give a fuck about Joey Janela or Sonny Kiss lmao. Its ridiculous. Oh and some saviors FTR are.


Okay, know it all.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Yes but that would not explain the gap


AEW and NXT don't share that many viewers

NXT's increased rating is because of their 50+ population tuning in.
AEW's reduced rating is because of their reduction in the 18-49


----------



## RainmakerV2

Wouldnt surprise me if they ticked off some of their core younger audience by suspending Sammy. The young kids probably dig him. 

And lets be real here, but 18-40 men who watch wrestling do not wanna see a transgender with their ass hanging out wrestling in serious matches. Call it what you wanna call it but it is what it is. If hes Omegas friend or whatever and he wants him on the payroll, fine, but keep that stuff on Dark.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> AEW and NXT don't share that many viewers
> 
> NXT's increased rating is because of their 50+ population tuning in.
> AEW's reduced rating is because of their reduction in the 18-49


Yah, 0.6 again in the key demo

what did these guys watch?

I think the drop in 50 can be a switch over, the drop and gain almost matches


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> AEW and NXT don't share that many viewers
> 
> NXT's increased rating is because of their 50+ population tuning in.
> AEW's reduced rating is because of their reduction in the 18-49


I think the 50+ increase of NXT might be the 50+ who usually watch AEW.


----------



## RiverFenix

Good. AEW needs to get their head out of their ass or they die. NXT smells blood and are counter-programming FyterFest next two weeks. 

AEW has been levels of boring since DoN2.


----------



## llj

bad day at the office for aew, wonder what happened


----------



## Ozell Gray

Garty said:


> Here you go Ozell... straight from the man himself: HHH says...
> 
> Now, will you stop playing as if you're Peter Parker? Screamed at by J. Jonah Jameson, searching out the landscape for news to put on the front-page of The Bugle? Thank you Peter.


Its still a developmental show, hence why NXT talent MOVES UP to the main roster, Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Alright_Mate

To lose by that margin 

But as I keep on saying, they need to start using their roster properly.

Stop showcasing the shit that viewers clearly give no fucks about.

They may get a good bump on the Fyter Fest weeks, but even those cards are nothing special.


----------



## Garty

The XL 2 said:


> Jesus, they got bodied this week. I don't know what to say.


*Well I do... they got raped!* Zing! Pop! Pow!

Too soon? Inappropriate? Wrong definition? Anyone? Bueller... Beuller... Beuller...


----------



## Oracle

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wouldnt surprise me if they ticked off some of their core younger audience by suspending Sammy. The young kids probably dig him.
> 
> And lets be real here, but 18-40 men who watch wrestling do not wanna see a transgender with their ass hanging out wrestling in serious matches. Call it what you wanna call it but it is what it is. If hes Omegas friend or whatever and he wants him on the payroll, fine, but keep that stuff on Dark.


Yeah i wanna see the numbers for that match reckon a lot of people turned off after that


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> bad day at the office for aew, wonder what happened


AEW have a younger audience and some weeks they watch and some others they don't, there's not really a logic on why they watch certains weeks....

Sometimes a show is great/good and the number is low and the sometimes the numbers are good for bad shows.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW had won like 12 weeks in a row right?
> 
> The flaws in the mid card of AEWs roster are showing through. No one is ever gonna give a fuck about Joey Janela or Sonny Kiss lmao. Its ridiculous. Oh and some saviors FTR are.


"Quick AEW lost this time, let me talk shit about the show like I know anything about anything!! I'll show those AEW super fans that I'm right about AEW and my baby NXT is the best OSIDNNsnodbn;p!!"

Like what? Calm down my guy. Like I said when AEW was winning the last 12-14 weeks, these numbers don't mean shit and it doesn't all of a sudden mean that AEW is "dead". People are watching streams, clips, replays, and DVR. If AEW won by 300k viewers, it still wouldn't mean shit because that would just mean that NXT viewers didn't watch live this time and caught the replays/streams.

Good for NXT though, for whatever that's worth.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> To lose by that margin
> 
> But as I keep on saying, they need to start using their roster properly.
> 
> Stop showcasing the shit that viewers clearly give no fucks about.
> 
> They may get a good bump on the Fyter Fest weeks, *but even those cards are nothing special.*


They can't really do better for the moment.


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> "Quick AEW lost this time, let me talk shit about the show like I know anything about anything!! I'll show those AEW super fans that I'm right about AEW and my baby NXT is the best OSIDNNsnodbn;p!!"
> 
> Like what? Calm down my guy. Like I said when AEW was winning the last 12-14 weeks, these numbers don't mean shit. People are watching streams, clips, replays, and DVR. If AEW won by 300k viewers, it still wouldn't mean shit because that would just mean that NXT viewers didn't watch live this time and caught the replays/streams.
> 
> Good for NXT though, for whatever that's worth.



Of course they mean something. Otherwise you wouldnt have been here within the hour they came out like everyone else. Lol.


----------



## Klitschko

Well as a big AEW fan, they got crushed this week. No excuses. It should have been much higher. Now I'm worried about the next two weeks of Fyterfest. Was hoping they would hit 1 million. But now, not so much. Maybe 750-850k tops.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yah, 0.6 again in the key demo
> 
> what did these guys watch?
> 
> I think the drop in 50 can be a switch over, the drop and gain almost matches


Well, you could look at it like the way Woodsy does,

"it must have been white noise"
"one house changed the channel"
"they must have fell asleep"
"blah, blah, blah, blah"


----------



## Not Lying

Oracle said:


> Yeah i wanna see the numbers for that match reckon a lot of people turned off after that


I mean.. yeah for sure. Q7 has been terrible for AEW and doing random Santana/Hardy match while the 3-way main event was starting in NXT, between 3 very popular wrestlers, I skipped the matt match and rewatched it after.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Liverpool is about to win the premier league


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Of course they mean something. Otherwise you wouldnt have been here within the hour they came out like everyone else. Lol.


I'm here because I'm a digital marketer IRL and I'm a data junkie. I'm not here to shit on AEW or NXT in an "I told you so!" manner and act like I know how many people are actually watching either show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Liverpool is about to win the premier league


whaaaaa? Are they being gifted it or something?


----------



## Garty

Ozell Gray said:


> Its still a developmental show, hence why NXT talent MOVES UP to the main roster, Raw and Smackdown.


Okay, if you want to believe that Peter, than go right on ahead. Just one more question for you. What about the talent that has MOVED BACK "DOWN"? Does the "developmental rule" still apply?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm here because *I'm a digital marketer IRL* *and I'm a data junkie*. I'm not here to shit on AEW or NXT in an "I told you so!" manner and act like I know how many people are actually watching either show.


no way dude, me too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ratings dropped since FTR joined

there’s only 1 logical conclusion 🤔


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> I think the 50+ increase of NXT might be the 50+ who usually watch AEW.


Nah mate

this is last week









boomers actually increased this week for AEW.
Clear reduction in the younger audience.


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm here because I'm a digital marketer IRL and I'm a data junkie. I'm not here to shit on AEW or NXT in an "I told you so!" manner and act like I know how many people are actually watching either show.



No one is shitting on anything lol. NXT isnt my baby either, they have tons of nerds who segments I turn too.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whaaaaa? Are they being gifted it or something?


man city has to beat chelsea tonight or liverpool can't be beaten - even if liverpool somehow loses all of their upcoming games, they will not be knocked off the top spot.


----------



## RiverFenix

It's the summer. Folks are outside - especially younger folks. It's why television stops producing new shows between late May and September every years. 

Swagger is an interest killer. Nobody cares about him yet he keeps getting "major threat" pushes against title holders. 

WAY too much comedy and silliness. 

AEW seems to be holding off everything in hopes of live fans returning - that's not going to happen for awhile. You just have to book your best television now. If that means Bucks vs FTR then it happens, if that's Moxley vs MJF it happens.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> I mean.. yeah for sure. Q7 has been terrible for AEW and doing random Santana/Hardy match while the 3-way main event was starting in NXT, between 3 very popular wrestlers, I skipped the matt match and rewatched it after.


I think Q6 was just talking, promo but 0 action.

But in the end the gap canno't be explained by only 1 quarter. usually AEW does not lose a lot of viewers overall in the 2 hours so when AEW does a low number then that mean that they started the show pretty low.


----------



## MrThortan

An unfortunate rating. Hopefully the next few shows have some decent demos. This was the first Dynamite that I turned off. I just wasn't in the mood.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Nah mate
> 
> this is last week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boomers actually increased this week for AEW.
> Clear reduction in the younger audience.


other way around mate

over 50, down by 0.5 on aew and up by 0.6 on nxt


----------



## LifeInCattleClass




----------



## Garty

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm here because I'm a digital marketer IRL and I'm a data junkie. I'm not here to shit on AEW or NXT in an "I told you so!" manner and act like I know how many people are actually watching either show.


Yeah, you tell 'em! That's the Angry Aussies job man!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> other way around mate


oh yes my bad


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> Nah mate
> 
> this is last week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boomers actually increased this week for AEW.
> Clear reduction in the younger audience.


Last week they did 0.31 in the 50+ demo and this week 0.26.

EDIT Life already shown you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Last week they did 0.31 in the 50+ demo and this week 0.26.
> 
> EDIT Life already shown you.


life... has shown us all at some point


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> life... has shown us all at some point


In fact it'ss mainly the 25-54 demo who was down. From 0.33 to 0.27.


----------



## PavelGaborik

rbl85 said:


> Well we have to hope because otherwise.....


NXT has a pretty meh card on paper next week in comparison. 

If AEW doesn't do 750k+ it's a failure.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Horrible number for AEW and I always am taking up for them. That might be their lowest number yet. They only squeaked a demo win but the overall viewers it was a drubbing. I haven't watched NXT since week 2 (I'll look something up if I am intrigued in what I read) so I don't care about them in the big picture. I think Moxley being pulled several hours before hurt them but that is an ugly number regardless.


----------



## rbl85

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Horrible number for AEW and I always am taking up for them. That might be their lowest number yet. They only squeaked a demo win but the overall viewers it was a drubbing. I haven't watched NXT since week 2 (I'll look something up if I am intrigued in what I read) so I don't care about them in the big picture. I think Moxley being pulled several hours before hurt them but that is an ugly number regardless.


Yeah but the number of people who watch wrestling and follow wrestling on twitter is really small, so i bet that 90% of AEW viewers didn't know that Moxley was out.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Damn that's terrible. What happened?

Anyway, AEW really needs their fans again... it's becoming harder and harder to care about the product (and wrestling in general).


----------



## Bosnian21

EmbassyForever said:


> Damn that's terrible. What happened?
> 
> Anyway, AEW really needs their fans again... it's becoming harder and harder to care about the product (and wrestling in general).


Yeah fans could just be losing interest at this point. The no fans aspect is probably taking a toll.

I’d be interested to see what rating the Orange Cassidy-Jericho segment did.


----------



## rbl85

Bosnian21 said:


> Yeah fans could just be losing interest at this point. The no fans aspect is probably taking a toll.
> 
> I’d be interested to see what rating the Orange Cassidy-Jericho segment did.


Probably not good, a promo + brawl against a crazy maint even on NXT ....


----------



## Bosnian21

rbl85 said:


> Probably not good, a promo + brawl against a crazy maint even on NXT ....


Only thing that could be a good boost is Jericho’s segments usually doing well. Although I worry that his feud with OC is making him not as interesting.


----------



## rbl85

Bosnian21 said:


> Only thing that could be a good boost is Jericho’s segments usually doing well. Although I worry that his feud with OC is making him not as interesting.


Since he lost the belt, Jericho is doing way less good than before in the ratings.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> AEW and NXT don't share that many viewers
> 
> NXT's increased rating is because of their 50+ population tuning in.
> AEW's reduced rating is because of their reduction in the 18-49


They share a lot of the same young fan base. It's just if you're under 50 there's rarely an incentive to watch NXT live when you know it's available on the network the next day. I like WWE much more, but NXT isn't much watch solely because it's available on the network next day.


----------



## Dizzie

I wonder if the sammy thing had an impac?

I'm not one of these Mark's that buys into this joke of a mediocre ratings war but I buy into what cody had said previously about competing with themselves and they have now dropped well below half of what they had on their first show.

They originally falsely sold the product as if it was going to be a sports based one with rankings etc but they havent been that really at all and they went from having their biggest draw Jericho in feuds with main event guys like cody and Moxley to orange Cassidy.


----------



## RapShepard

If the drop in the 18-49 male demo was because of Sammy's suspension then man are those fans terrible people.


----------



## Buhalovski

qntntgood said:


> Sunny kiss and joey jonela segment may have done some damage,and aew has this sjw stigma on them.that they need to get rid of,and stop trying to appease the Twitter mob.


Is it politically correct if I say Sonny Kiss is hurting the program and is insulting the business? That shit is weird as fuck, I respect his life decisions but the guy clearly doesnt have a place at Dynamite.

I hate my favourite wrestling show pandering to the modern trends so much.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The show was a turd last night. They have been so inconsistent, and there are no more excuses. They can sign new talent to fill the gaps left by absent stars (Austin Aries and Rusev). They need more stars. The women's division is a dry pussy fart in terms of depth right now. The women's division had one segment last night. The HW champ hasn't wrestled on TV all month. They actually put Colt Cobana and Brodie Lee in a tag team, and they put Sonny Kiss on television (I'd love to see the QH rating for that match). There is no variety. There is no cruiserweight division. There is never a three-way match. We don't get 4-corner tags. We get the same NWA-style booking every week. There is no sex (other than scenes of male-on-male sexual assault that send the fucking target audience running for the hills). There are no twists to the card unless someone gets COVID or a dude makes a rape joke four years in the past (remember that they plowed forward with Nyla Rose on television right after she joked about not simply rape but raping a child last year).

They don't know how to make a television show. You have to expand the audience. You have to get ratings or this thing is going to die. You have to have continuity from week to week. Who the fuck is Dynamite about? Mox is nonexistent. Brit Baker and Colt Cobana are seemingly the stars. They have the only continuity from week to week. The star should be in multiple segment through the show.

One week, it's one group of wrestlers on TV, and the next week, it's another set of wrestlers. This is the directionless place you end up in when you don't have people who know how to write fiction.


----------



## Erik.

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WAY too much comedy and silliness.


I doubt this is going to change - not at least until audiences ARE back.

Jericho pretty much confirmed that it's hard to have real "heat" with no fans, so you lean more into the entertainment and comedic side of wrestling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> They share a lot of the same young fan base. It's just if you're under 50 there's rarely an incentive to watch NXT live when you know it's available on the network the next day. I like WWE much more, but NXT isn't much watch solely because it's available on the network next day.


do you have any evidence to support this?


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> do you have any evidence to support this?


You don't have any evidence they don't [emoji2373]. But common sense will tell you that of AEWs 800k average audience the odds of the majority of them being just AEW fans is low. Like even sample sizes like forums and YouTube don't even support that idea.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> You don't have any evidence they don't [emoji2373]. But common sense will tell you that of AEWs 800k average audience the odds of the majority of them being just AEW fans is low. Like even sample sizes like forums and YouTube don't even support that idea.


so you have no evidence... -_-

My evidence is based on the ratings trends between NXT and AEW. You can go look them up yourself. 

Going off forums and YouTube Lmfao. my guy.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> so you have no evidence... -_-
> 
> My evidence is based on the ratings trends between NXT and AEW. You can go look them up yourself.
> 
> Going off forums and YouTube Lmfao. my guy.


The issue with your argument is it has the same glaring flaw as Meltzer's PPV argument from last year. Meltzer tried to make the claim last year that AEW and WWE had a different audience based on the idea that "well the people who bought AEWs the traditional way, didn't buy WWE PPVs the traditional way". Which was flawed in that it totally ignores the existentence of the network. It's the same thing here. Keep in mind the folk still buying WWE PPVs skewed older, why because old folk are less likely to have the network. 

What's more likely that AEW's 800k average audience is uniquely there's and NXTs 700k average audience is uniquely there's. Or they share the same hardcore wrestling fan, fan base.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> You don't have any evidence they don't [emoji2373]. But common sense will tell you that of AEWs 800k average audience the odds of the majority of them being just AEW fans is low. Like even sample sizes like forums and YouTube don't even support that idea.


Nxt demo was 0.19 down from last week. Aew dropped from 0.29 to 0.22 - nxt didn't gain any of that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

FTR is to blame with their oldschool BS 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pippen94

Real shit week for wrestling in more ways than one.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Nxt demo was 0.19 down from last week. Aew dropped from 0.29 to 0.22 - nxt didn't gain any of that


That still doesn't make the argument that they don't share mostly the same audience. Because 1. Both shows dropped and 2. even with that .7 drop off it's not like AEW ratings went down by a few 100k that NXT didn't garner, which would give credence too "yeah this audience is completely different". 

It's just pure fandom to assume that " yeah AEW has its own fan base with little cross over"


----------



## Dark Emperor

Will be interesting to see breakdown for both shows to compare.


----------



## Buhalovski

Maybe the Orange Cassidy stuff is not as over as some of you think. Id like to see the breakdowns too coz I like the guy. Wish I could see him with more serious gimmick tho, the comedy stuff works only with crowd.


----------



## Peerless

I understand the Nielsen rating system is incredibly flawed but can someone explain to me how demos are even calculated?

Do they look at the person's birthdate who is paying for the cable? If that's the case how would you know if somebody's kid is watching instead of their older parents? Doesn't that skew the numbers? Or am I totally off the mark in how they calculate it?


----------



## Ayres

Sunny Kiss to Dark and Matt Hardy to Dark to put over younger talent will help immediately. Too many tag matches this week I felt like.


----------



## RiverFenix

Orange Cassidy is WAY over-exposed right now. Jericho is gloming off him and will suck him dry before moving on.


----------



## Aewwe

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Good. AEW needs to get their head out of their ass or they die. NXT smells blood and are counter-programming FyterFest next two weeks.
> 
> AEW has been levels of boring since DoN2.


I agree with this. I thought they did a good job under the circumstances of a limited roster and bulk tapings throughout April, and their May 20th and 27th live shows between DoN were really good, as was the PPV, but these last 3 or 4 weeks in June have been largely poor IMO, and all momentum seems to have stalled. There are some decent enough match ups on FF, but a lot of it seems to have just been for the sake of it recently, with not a lot happening. The women's division really is a joke.

Like many others, I'll be very interested when the ratings breakdown comes out.


----------



## Geeee

I really liked Dynamite this week. Oh well this wouldn't be a nostalgic ratings war without the other side showing some life.


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> It's the summer. Folks are outside - especially younger folks. It's why television stops producing new shows between late May and September every years.
> 
> Swagger is an interest killer. Nobody cares about him yet he keeps getting "major threat" pushes against title holders.
> 
> WAY too much comedy and silliness.
> 
> AEW seems to be holding off everything in hopes of live fans returning - that's not going to happen for awhile. You just have to book your best television now. If that means Bucks vs FTR then it happens, if that's Moxley vs MJF it happens.


I’ve been screaming for them to put down their purses and try to hit the fucking thing out of the park. They’ve been putting together half-assed shows since the 3rd or 4th episode without crowds. The people on this forum legitimately argued that they were “trying, but the pandemic isn’t allowing them a full roster to put together angles.” 

You keep saving storylines, AEW. And your company will fall apart.



Mister Sinister said:


> The show was a turd last night. They have been so inconsistent, and there are no more excuses. They can sign new talent to fill the gaps left by absent stars (Austin Aries and Rusev). They need more stars. The women's division is a dry pussy fart in terms of depth right now. The women's division had one segment last night. The HW champ hasn't wrestled on TV all month. They actually put Colt Cobana and Brodie Lee in a tag team, and they put Sonny Kiss on television (I'd love to see the QH rating for that match). There is no variety. There is no cruiserweight division. There is never a three-way match. We don't get 4-corner tags. We get the same NWA-style booking every week. There is no sex (other than scenes of male-on-male sexual assault that send the fucking target audience running for the hills). There are no twists to the card unless someone gets COVID or a dude makes a rape joke four years in the past (remember that they plowed forward with Nyla Rose on television right after she joked about not simply rape but raping a child last year).
> 
> They don't know how to make a television show. You have to expand the audience. You have to get ratings or this thing is going to die. You have to have continuity from week to week. Who the fuck is Dynamite about? Mox is nonexistent. Brit Baker and Colt Cobana are seemingly the stars. They have the only continuity from week to week. The star should be in multiple segment through the show.
> 
> One week, it's one group of wrestlers on TV, and the next week, it's another set of wrestlers. This is the directionless place you end up in when you don't have people who know how to write fiction.


Go back and watch every episode of Dynamite since the crowds were no longer allowed, and you’ll see there is a clear story: AEW is all about JERICHO AND CODY. Everything else is up and down with inconsistency.

Now the Cody lovers will excuse that and say that Bucks, Kenny, and Moxley can book themselves just as strongly, but they’re not the type to be selfish. But fair enough. So, we have to go further and see what these guys do when not directly linked with one of Cody and Jericho: MJF has been booked for shit and like an unimportant midcard act, Lance Archer has had all of about 2.5 minutes of television since Double or Nothing II. Omega and Page have been treated like fucking jokes since ending the Page/Bucks feud. Moxley won the goddamn WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP and, outside of a 30 minute match vs Hager, has been on TV less time than Cody’s match vs Jungle Boy.

You want to make yourself seem important, like a star? Write your character as one of the only consistent, heavily-aired characters in the universe of the story you’re telling.

I’ve never seen a wrestling show that revolved around only 2 people, but Cody and Jericho are doing it.

They deserved the ass kicking they got. Hopefully the shit continues, and Tony Khan gets off his fucking ass and starts demanding more again like he did after the stupid as fuck last show of 2019.

Shit or get off the pot, motherfuckers.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Whoever in AEW tought that Matt Hardy vs Santana was a good choice to main event and battle the strong main event that NXT had is delusional.
I bet that AEW ended the episode with less than 600k watching...even AEW fans prefered to see the NXT main event. I always watch AEW but if i was in USA i would end wednesday watching the Nxt main event.
Sammy G suspension certainly avoided some people too, i think.


----------



## Oracle

ProjectGargano said:


> Whoever in AEW tought that Matt Hardy vs Santana was a good choice to main event and battle the strong main event that NXT had is delusional.
> I bet that AEW ended the episode with less than 600k watching...even AEW fans prefered to see the NXT main event. I always watch AEW but if i was in USA i would end wednesday watching the Nxt main event.
> Sammy G suspension certainly avoided some people too, i think.


I said this yesterday. How the fuck in 2020 is Matt Hardy vs Santana worthy of being your main fucking event the main event should have been the whole FTR thing with the Lucha brothers.

Big booking error they made with that one


----------



## qntntgood

Tsvetoslava said:


> Is it politically correct if I say Sonny Kiss is hurting the program and is insulting the business? That shit is weird as fuck, I respect his life decisions but the guy clearly doesnt have a place at Dynamite.
> 
> I hate my favourite wrestling show pandering to the modern trends so much.


No not at all, because when the sonny kiss segment came on television last night.a large perfect of aew fans changed the channel,when the sonny kiss segment was over they changed back when the segment was over.and how do I know this is, the reaction it got because they were saying this on twitter.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> Well, you could look at it like the way Woodsy does,
> 
> "it must have been white noise"
> "one house changed the channel"
> "they must have fell asleep"
> "blah, blah, blah, blah"


God damn you're a sensitive Sally


----------



## sideon

Garty said:


> Okay, if you want to believe that Peter, than go right on ahead. Just one more question for you. What about the talent that has MOVED BACK "DOWN"? Does the "developmental rule" still apply?


How many wrestlers have back down to NXT compared to the number of people that have been called up? NXT is the developmental brand and there's no denying that, hell at best it's the company's 3rd brand.


----------



## MoxAsylum

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew:633K
> Nxt: 786k.
> 
> 
> The streak is ova.


A lot of things AEW needs to fixed, Tony Khan has probably turned a lot of people away with the way he wanted to bash Hogan and the way he appeases to the SJW’s. AEW also needs to release Sonny Kiss, release Nyla Rose, release Janela, Librarians, etc. cut the trash characters and they’ll be fine. Also quit featuring Matt Hardy


----------



## ripcitydisciple

People are actually saying NXT won because they had more total viewers? Correct me if I am wrong but isn't 17 better than 26? In what world does the 26th rank thing beat the 17th best thing? I would have thought this week would have been the deciding week that proves total viewers are not the deciding factor of winning the ratings. The demos are. 

The best example I can use is College Football before the Playoffs setup;

One team is winning their games due to Style Points.(NXT)
One team is winning their games due to Strength of Schedule(AEW)

The team who may not be scoring as much to win their games but beating ranked teams will always be higher in the standings over the team who is blowing out teams that are not ranked.

Therefore, AEW beat NXT this week. 17 is better than 26.


----------



## Aedubya

Whats the score now?

20-4 is it?


----------



## Mister Sinister

I didn't even stick around for the main event to know it was Hardy vs Santana. Who put this card together? Can we get Hardy in a match against Archer so we are invested in who wins? Throw in Pentagon too?


----------



## The Wood

Let's talk again about how Orange Cassidy equals ratings? They've used him to kill Jericho. Absolutely unbelievable.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW has millions and millions of dollars in talent and last night their show featured a segment between the guy who is allegedly their hottest home grown star in Orange Cassidy meeting CHRIS JERICHO THE LEGEND before their big TV special/PPV main event. Cody was on the card, Moxley was advertised all week to be on the card, they had "the best big man in wrestling" with Brodie Lee being there, Matt Hardy was on, they had FTR, they had The Bucks appear, Omega was on, Wardlow/Luchasaurus which has been anticipated for a little while was on, Swagger was on etc etc.

It lost to NXT which had just one (Two if you want to count Rhea Ripley) wrestlers that have been on the main roster. AEW should be absolutely killing it week to week with the amount of talent and the millions they have behind them but they can't and it might just be time for the AEW fans on this board to start taking "Da haterz" a little more seriously ESPECIALLY if you're someone who takes TV ratings seriously.

I think it's finally time to admit that AEW might need some changes.




Danielallen1410 said:


> yeah but that’s the thing it’s fantasy.
> 
> in a fantasy world you have no restrictions.
> 
> you can’t take into account whether the wrestler feels comfortable with what you are asking.
> 
> you can’t take into account injuries and pandemics
> 
> you can’t take into account whether the tv network want a certain type of product.
> 
> you're criticising booking and claiming you can do better etc without any context.


That's a good point hence why I worked within AEW's existing structures and improved on their ideas.

It might be time for a fantasy booking thread anyway after this abysmal rating.



Erik. said:


> As predicted.
> 
> Back up next week.


Literally nobody predicted this. What on earth do you mean? You expected one of their lowest ratings to date and for them to get their ass kicked by NXT on their big go home show? Come on dude.

And don't go out on a limb by saying it'll go up next week. Of course it will they're giving away a free PPV. I'd be more concerned about what the rating is doing 4 weeks from now when AEW needs to once again start new stories and try to hook people again.



Garty said:


> Remember haters... ratings don't matter here.
> 
> Quick. Run. Man the lifeboats. Sound the alarm. We're going down.


I don't know if anyone has ever said ratings don't matter they definitely do. They're not the be all and end all anymore though. It's a fucking shame though that AEW is dropping 150-200k in a week though especially when that audience is so limited.



Erik. said:


> If I WAS to try and find and excuse, I would probably argue that the ratings were down BECAUSE of the next two weeks booked specials.
> 
> The cards were set. There wasn't going to be any special cliffhangers. Moxley wasn't going to be there. Cody wasn't in a match. No other title matches were on the line that could have potentially changed hands in the lead up. So why tune into this weeks episode? Probably the best opportunity to watch NXT without actually missing an important thing from the other show.


You said you weren't going to argue that but you kind of did and it's horrible logic.

You're telling me that the audience didn't tune in because nothing eventful was going to happen? Wrestling fans for like 30 years have been taught that something big will happen on the go home episode but now suddenly it's changed to fit your "AEW lost" agenda.

Also, nobody knew Moxley wasn't going to be there unless they're a member of a forum or a big AEW follower on social media. Nobody knew Cody wasn't defending the title I actually thought he was because like 3 weeks ago he said he was defending it every week. I thought after the press conference we'd see him later on.

You do you though man, keep convincing yourself that AEW is this awesome product with no flaws and that the fans are tuning out based on other things but certainly not because it's bad.



Tsvetoslava said:


> Maybe the Orange Cassidy stuff is not as over as some of you think. Id like to see the breakdowns too coz I like the guy. Wish I could see him with more serious gimmick tho, the comedy stuff works only with crowd.


This is what I have been saying for months and I've been shouted down by almost everyone. People assume that because Orange Cassidy sells a lot of T-Shirts on smark websites and the rating slightly increases when he's on that he must be this big star. Your average TV viewer doesn't give a fuck about the guy and doesn't "get it".

---

We all need to wake up guys or AEW will be dead by this time in 2025. TNA fans and management were stubborn until the end also until they pushed the majority of their fan base away and now they're only just starting to try and rebuild after being on deaths door for the past 5 years.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Well, you could look at it like the way Woodsy does,
> 
> "it must have been white noise"
> "one house changed the channel"
> "they must have fell asleep"
> "blah, blah, blah, blah"


You're again making things up about people, which shows that you have not learnt your lesson after being banned. Stop with this nonsense. 

I've never said any of those things definitely happened. They are just possibilities when you are talking about ratings this small. Do you know how Nielsen works? There are over one hundred million homes with cable and only so many Nielsen boxes. You're measuring several million people with a few thousand boxes. If you want to take an estimated difference of 7k, go ahead. That's on you and your inability to understand how anything works. 



RapShepard said:


> They share a lot of the same young fan base. It's just if you're under 50 there's rarely an incentive to watch NXT live when you know it's available on the network the next day. I like WWE much more, but NXT isn't much watch solely because it's available on the network next day.


Thank you! Some common sense! I'm getting so sick of seeing people say that "NXT is for boomers" when the audience is no doubt very similar. AEW barely wins in the 18-49 demo, and then NXT launches on the Network the next day. Most people aren't going to watch four hours of wrestling on Wednesday night. So they prioritise the new guys first and then watch NXT, which isn't such topical programming in their community, the next day.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

AEW is just bad tv right and pushing the wrong people.

Cody is awful, matt hardy needs to go asap and Omega / Page need go back to singles and carry the damn show like they should be doing.


----------



## The Wood

Prediction: Next week will see an increase, because they're doing FyterFest and some "big matches." But it'll have a hot-shot effect. This will be their best chance to win people over, and I don't think they'll do it, because the feeling will be "eh, this is their best shot?" And there will no doubt be a bunch of silly comedy. Plus you are running Jericho vs. Cassidy, and Jericho will no doubt sell. People will try and forget this rating with FyterFest over the next two weeks, but it'll just be grabbing a life ring before it goes down and down and down. It's hard to stop the sort of bleeding they've started.


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW is probably paying Jericho alone more than everyone who wrestled on NXT this Wednesday.


Tony Khan needs to seek help. He's seen AEW start of promising with 1.4 million viewers to less than half of that. He doesn't seem to realize that he's just a rich kid. He really needs someone to tell him "You're not a good booker. You're not a genius. You don't "get" wrestling, you've just seen a lot of it on TV and listened a lot to a guy who's also seen a lot of it on TV." He's surrounded himself with overpaid sycophants who clearly won't question him and lose their high paying jobs.


----------



## thorn123

I am loving Dynamite...I don’t think they are doing anything wrong...so disappointed in the ratings...quality tv doesn’t equal popularity...#firefly, penny dreadful, sense8, freaks and geeks, moonlight etc...my pessimism leads me to believe Dynamite will have the same fate as these shows...just when I was getting enthusiastic about wrestling again


----------



## chronoxiong

I been tuning out of AEW guys. Haven't had time to watch Dynamite due to work and other stuff in life. So to see them destroyed by NXT in the ratings this week was not surprising for me. I am just not being engaged by their stars. Plus, I always felt like Jon Moxley was weak as a Champion as I feel like he's better chasing it. Even when he was WWE Champ, I just felt disengaged by what he does compared to when he's chasing it. The mid card, I am just not feeling them either. Hope they figure this out because I want to be invested when I am watching the shows. Not just have it on in the background while I multi-task.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> I am loving Dynamite...I don’t think they are doing anything wrong...so disappointed in the ratings...quality tv doesn’t equal popularity...#firefly, penny dreadful, sense8, freaks and geeks, moonlight etc...my pessimism leads me to believe Dynamite will have the same fate as these shows...just when I was getting enthusiastic about wrestling again


Mate... if ever there was a good example of this point - its Firefly

what a show

all my faves are always cancelled, so I am kinda used to it


----------



## Aewwe

When do we normally find out the breakdown?

@rbl85 - if you post them later, could you please do what you did a couple of weeks ago and put both AEW and NXT segments into the same sentence when going the segments, so it's easier to get a direct comparison.


----------



## rbl85

Aewwe said:


> When do we normally find out the breakdown?
> 
> @rbl85 - if you post them later, could you please do what you did a couple of weeks ago and put both AEW and NXT segments into the same sentence when going the segments, so it's easier to get a direct comparison.


Usually tomorrow.

Ok i'll do it


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW is probably paying Jericho alone more than everyone who wrestled on NXT this Wednesday.
> 
> 
> Tony Khan needs to seek help. He's seen AEW start of promising with 1.4 million viewers to less than half of that. He doesn't seem to realize that he's just a rich kid. He really needs someone to tell him "You're not a good booker. You're not a genius. You don't "get" wrestling, you've just seen a lot of it on TV and listened a lot to a guy who's also seen a lot of it on TV." He's surrounded himself with overpaid sycophants who clearly won't question him and lose their high paying jobs.


I wonder how much of this stubbornness comes from a determination for Meltzer’s “guidance” to succeed?


----------



## Swan-San

I hope ratings continue to plummet so Khan is forced to change things or get cancelled. He needs to wake up from his coma.


----------



## The Wood

Swan-San said:


> I hope ratings continue to plummet so Khan is forced to change things or get cancelled. He needs to wake up from his coma.


This takes me back to, well, admittedly recent times. People couldn’t understand why I wanted TNA to fail after a certain point. It’s for the health of the industry. On a superficial level, it’s great some talent gets paid, but it holds everyone back. AEW is teaching that level in record time. Things need to get worse if they’re ever going to get better.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DaveRA said:


> I am loving Dynamite...I don’t think they are doing anything wrong...so disappointed in the ratings...quality tv doesn’t equal popularity...#firefly, penny dreadful, sense8, freaks and geeks, moonlight etc...my pessimism leads me to believe Dynamite will have the same fate as these shows...just when I was getting enthusiastic about wrestling again


You have enjoyed it lately? Don't get me wrong, from January to March, Dynamite was by far the most fun show to watch on TV. But they have sucked complete ass ever since the 3/25 show, a rare bright show here and there, but holy crap they just did Matt Hardy in a main event on national TV. MATT HARDY. He shouldn't even be in the company. I am not an ex-WWE wrestler basher, in fact I think Brodie Lee belongs in AEW and has become underrated because he pissed off the Vince fans (which are 80% of the entire wrestling fanbase), but man oh man, Hardy, yikes.

On a much, much smaller scale...Matt Hardy leaving WWE to go to AEW has had the same reverse effect that Bret Hart leaving WWF for WCW had.


----------



## rbl85

Swan-San said:


> I hope ratings continue to plummet so Khan is forced to change things or get cancelled. He needs to wake up from his coma.


I hope that the pandemic is going to get worse so that you lose your work....


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> I hope that the pandemic is going to get worse so that you lose your work....


There’s wishing ruin on a human being, and then there’s wishing a splash of cold water. Just like Eric Bischoff and Dixie Carter, Tony Khan is going to be fine even if AEW fails.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Rating a little low but whatever. It will bounce back.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Weak roster *drew* low ratings 

*AEW *
From

1.4 million to 633k


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Id say misused roster more than weak. They have a ton of talent but keep featuring jabronis.


----------



## rbl85

Maybe tonight for the details of this week ratings

EDIT : maybe not XD


----------



## thorn123

TKO Wrestling said:


> You have enjoyed it lately? Don't get me wrong, from January to March, Dynamite was by far the most fun show to watch on TV. But they have sucked complete ass ever since the 3/25 show, a rare bright show here and there, but holy crap they just did Matt Hardy in a main event on national TV. MATT HARDY. He shouldn't even be in the company. I am not an ex-WWE wrestler basher, in fact I think Brodie Lee belongs in AEW and has become underrated because he pissed off the Vince fans (which are 80% of the entire wrestling fanbase), but man oh man, Hardy, yikes.
> 
> On a much, much smaller scale...Matt Hardy leaving WWE to go to AEW has had the same reverse effect that Bret Hart leaving WWF for WCW had.


Yeh, I have still enjoyed it...it’s not perfect..but it’s better than most things around...I am not enamoured with Matt Hardy so I get that, but I like most of the roster...there are definitely some things I would change, but I give it about a 7 atm...come Sunday and I am hankering for some AEW...haven’t had that feeling about wrestling for a long time...each to their own


----------



## Chip Chipperson

After this record low rating I was interested to see if Tony Khan was a strong leader in any of his other ventures. I typed in "Tony Khan Fulham Forum" and to my surprise they feel the same way about the owner of AEW that we do.

Some quotes for you all.



> Khan was praised initially for his dealings this summer but the signings have backfired. Khan has been treating the club like a real life Football Manager spending frivolously whilst only looking at numbers due to Fulham's stats based transfer policy.





> I have been saying this for as long as I can remember, that TK has been using Fulham as a toy, a rich mans sons plaything, and you reap what you sow, because unless that League Table is upside down, we appear to be currently the worst team in the Premier League, and it’s no surprise with most of the players Khan has recruited.
> The frustrating part about it is. We could have taken the lead in the first half on two occasions, but because we cannot keep a clean sheet, we came away empty handed.
> Certain players have not got the right mentality, no passion or spirit. Schurrie for instance thinks he is doing us a favour, he did not once break sweat.
> However, people can blame Jok they can blame Claudio, but the Architect for Fulhams demise is Tony Khan, and his pathetic recruitment policy.





> I'm sure he's a nice guy, but he seems slightly dettached in his approach to the club and generally comes across unfiltered professionally, lacking structure.. all seems very passive, secondary and rambling... its a shame... club really deserves someone who gives more focus to the club. kinda seems like he's missing the point.





> I doubt that very much, as the General said he is detached due to his lack of time and the fact that he does not have his finger on the pulse as he should have. He runs his mouth a lot as brash people do but he forgets that you cannot bullshite a bullshiter.
> He is neither qualified or capable of holding down this position and certainly not at this level, he is here because he is his fathers son, anyone else would have been sacked. Nepotism still reigns which collides with a conflict of interest.
> There are a lot of unqualified people in jobs they should not be in because of who they know as well having plenty of front and flannel.
> He pops up now and again and says what fans want to hear. If he stated that he once gorged on Burgandy served in a Human Skull, would you believe him ? Of course not, and neither would I, but many would.
> I note when there is controversy or we are in a dark place, he keeps under the radar, which tells you a lot more about his ability or lack of it to want to eat dirt like others have to.
> If you pray for rain you have to deal with the mud as well.
> The higher up the mountain the more treacherous the path.


All from the friends of Fulham forum.

General consensus seems to be that he's passionate about things but can't execute which is the same issue AEW is having. He needs to hire someone who knows what they're doing before it's too late and AEW hits 500k viewers.


----------



## Ozell Gray

*Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s NXT and AEW Dynamite

As reported on Thursday, AEW and NXT split the difference between ratings and viewership, with AEW taking the demo ratings win while NXT had the most overall viewers. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has the full breakdown of the numbers, which on an overall level had AEW at a 0.22 rating in the 18 – 49 demographic and 633,000 viewers while NXT had a 0.19 demo rating and 786,000 viewers.*

Dynamite was #17 among cable originals for the night in the demo rating, and #8 in non-news shows. NXT on the other hand was #26 overall and #12 among non-news shows. TNT ranked #7 as a cable network behind MTV, FOX News, Food Network, Home & Gardens, CNN and MSNBC. The network was #5 specifically among men 18 – 49 and #2 among non-news shows in that demo. USA Network was #9 among cable networks, ranking behind all the above as well as The History Channel.
Overall, Dynamite was down 18% in viewers from last week and 21.4% in the demo, while NXT was up 5.6% in viewers and down 5% in in the demo. While the specific quarter hour numbers aren’t yet available due to a Nielsen glitch, the site reports that NXT won all the quarter hours in viewers except for the second while AEW won six of the eight quarter hours in the demo rating, losing only the final two.

The main event segments drew 852,000 for NXT and 552,000 for AEW, with the Keith Lee vs. Finn Balor vs. Johnny Gargano match defeating the Matt Hardy vs. Santana match and Chris Jericho-Orange Cassidy confrontation.
AEW did a 0.08 demo rating in the 12-17 demo (down 38.5%), a 0.12 in the 18-34 demo (down 7.7%), a 0.32 in the 35-49 demo (down 25.6%), and a 0.26 in 50+ demo (down 16.1%). The show audience 65.1 percent male among the 18-49 demo and 54.6 percent males among those 12-17, which means record lows in the teens and 35-49 demos.
Meanwhile, NXT did a 0.13 among teenagers (up 8.3%), a 0.10 for those 18-34 (up 25.0%), a 0.28 in 35-49 (down 12.5%) and a 0.42 in for the 50+ crowd (up 16.7). The audience was 60.5% male in 18-49 and 50.5% in 12-17.










411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s NXT and AEW Dynamite


The full ratings breakdown is in for this week's Wednesday Night War, which saw AEW win the demo rating while NXT won overall viewers.




411mania.com


----------



## Ozell Gray

That Dynamite main event with Matt Hardy vs Satana and Chris Jericho and Orange Cassidy is the lowest viewed segment in Dynamite's short history. That 552k viewers is horrific.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

552,000 for "Ratings winner" Orange Cassidy and wrestling legend Chris Jericho.

Yikes...


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> 552,000 for "Ratings winner" Orange Cassidy and wrestling legend Chris Jericho.
> 
> Yikes...


The lowest viewed Dynamite segment ever had Orange Cassidy in it but AEW fanboys said he was a draw but as we can see hes not.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> 552,000 for "Ratings winner" Orange Cassidy and wrestling legend Chris Jericho.
> 
> Yikes...


Memes have a short shelf life; the harder they're pushed, the quicker people stop caring.


----------



## imthegame19

TKO Wrestling said:


> Id say misused roster more than weak. They have a ton of talent but keep featuring jabronis.


This exactly. As much as wrestling fans show panic with these ratings. AEW is doing the opposite and holding so much back. Look at the singles matches these guys wrestled on Dynamite since Double or Nothing.

Jon Moxley -zero

Chris Jericho -Colt Cabana

Cody Rhodes-Jungle Boy, Marq Quen, Ricky Starks

Brian Cage-Lee Johnson, Shawn Dean, Jon Cruz

Omega -zero

Page-zero

MJF-Billy Gunn

Brodie Lee-zero

Lance Archer- zero

Matt Hardy - Santana

Darby Allin-zero (out with kayfabe injury)

Jake Hager-zero

Dustin Rhodes -zero

Sammy Guevara-Colt Cabana

Orange Cassidy-zero

Wardlow- Lucharusas


You got your top 16 or so guys right there. With 9 of them not wrestling in singles matches at all on Dynamite the past 5 weeks. With the 7 guys who have either wrestling low card guys, tag team guys or enhancement talent.


Look I think Orange Cassidy is entertaining as next guy. But his feud with Jericho should be in mid card filler. Him brawling with Jericho going head to head with NXT is idiotic. NXT put on Take over level main event. While Jericho brawled around with a comedy guy. 


That would be like if say AEW had Cody vs Omega vs MJF for TNT title with winner facing Moxley. While on NXT Ciampa was having a brawl with Fandango. Ok Jericho/Cassidy are bigger then those guys but you get my point. AEW is putting on AEW Dark(pre pandemic) matches on Dynamite and it's hurting the product.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> 552,000 for "Ratings winner" Orange Cassidy and wrestling legend Chris Jericho.
> 
> Yikes...


People just don't get it yet. But they will!


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> Memes have a short shelf life; the harder they're pushed, the quicker people stop caring.


They're slowly building him into a more serious character. The nuances are evolving every single week with him. He started as strictly comedy and has moved into a semi-serious role during this Jericho feud. It's a great way to build a babyface because people like him and find him funny.


----------



## imthegame19

Swan-San said:


> I hope ratings continue to plummet so Khan is forced to change things or get cancelled. He needs to wake up from his coma.


That's the thing. I know it's popular on internet and especially this forum. To say oh TNT upset with ratings and gonna cancel them etc. All that is most likely very wishful thinking by a few people on this forum and AEW haters.


Let's put it this way TNT president Kevin Reilly is friends with Tony Khan. So it's very easy for him to say to his friend you need to get these ratings up or we might have to move you or cancel you at some point or whatever.

But how AEW putting their Dynamites it appears they are getting absolute zero pressure to get the ratings up and TNT clearly isn't showing they are unhappy with anything as of right now.

If he was he wouldn't be booking Jon Moxley or Brian Cage vs Jon Cruz, Shida vs Red Velvet, Matt Hardy vs Santana, Colt Cabana&Brodie Lee vs Sonny Kiss&Janela on this shows? You could put those matches on Dark and people wouldn't know the difference. He also wouldn't be putting Orange Cassidy vs Jericho brawl in main event.


If TNT was really demanding the ratings up let alone putting out threats. You would see big star match ups, more title matches and gimmick matches.


Instead it appears TNT knows ratings will be down from what they were until fans get back. While they know they will have up and down weeks as they try out new things and push new character's. It seems like they are fully in support of the show and probably take sub .20 in 18-49 or sub 590 viewers for multiple weeks. Before they put any pressure on Tony. Realistically after .28(finishing 8th on the night)and 772 viewers last week. They aren't gonna overreact at all about .23 and 633 viewers this week. Like the wrestling fans do. 


It's just up to AEW to learn from this poor weeks and know they can't put so many subpar match ups when you are going head to head with another show. So it doesn't get to a point where TNT is actually unhappy and putting pressure on them.


----------



## Not Lying

Q2 of AEW beat NXT in total viewers?

That was Shida's segment! Awesome.



Chip Chipperson said:


> 552,000 for "Ratings winner" Orange Cassidy and wrestling legend Chris Jericho.
> 
> Yikes...


I'm willing to bet Q7 had a huge drop in favor of NXT's main event and they weren't gona switch in the final Q.


----------



## Oracle

Casuals dont care about orange cassidy unless your a hardcore AEW fanboy that chants your ass off in the audience for him. hes a total nobody


----------



## The Wood

Ouchie wouchie at that final quarter. That’s WCW’s guys getting killed against Austin bad (comparatively).

Can we please talk again about how Orange Cassidy is a ratings draw?


----------



## thorn123

imthegame19 said:


> This exactly. As much as wrestling fans show panic with these ratings. AEW is doing the opposite and holding so much back. Look at the singles matches these guys wrestled on Dynamite since Double or Nothing.
> 
> Jon Moxley -zero
> 
> Chris Jericho -Colt Cabana
> 
> Cody Rhodes-Jungle Boy, Marq Quen, Ricky Starks
> 
> Brian Cage-Lee Johnson, Shawn Dean, Jon Cruz
> 
> Omega -zero
> 
> Page-zero
> 
> MJF-Billy Gunn
> 
> Brodie Lee-zero
> 
> Lance Archer- zero
> 
> Matt Hardy - Santana
> 
> Darby Allin-zero (out with kayfabe injury)
> 
> Jake Hager-zero
> 
> Dustin Rhodes -zero
> 
> Sammy Guevara-Colt Cabana
> 
> Orange Cassidy-zero
> 
> Wardlow- Lucharusas
> 
> 
> You got your top 16 or so guys right there. With 9 of them not wrestling in singles matches at all on Dynamite the past 5 weeks. With the 7 guys who have either wrestling low card guys, tag team guys or enhancement talent.
> 
> 
> Look I think Orange Cassidy is entertaining as next guy. But his feud with Jericho should be in mid card filler. Him brawling with Jericho going head to head with NXT is idiotic. NXT put on Take over level main event. While Jericho brawled around with a comedy guy.
> 
> 
> That would be like if say AEW had Cody vs Omega vs MJF for TNT title with winner facing Moxley. While on NXT Ciampa was having a brawl with Fandango. Ok Jericho/Cassidy are bigger then those guys but you get my point. AEW is putting on AEW Dark(pre pandemic) matches on Dynamite and it's hurting the product.


I enjoy AEW and don’t have an issue with what they are doing, but you make a good point...I’d like to see those guys wrestle more in big matches...would like to see Archer, Lucha, Wardlow, Hager, MJF, Page, Omega all get a big push and be in the title picture.


----------



## thorn123

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q2 of AEW beat NXT in total viewers?
> 
> That was Shida's segment! Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet Q7 had a huge drop in favor of NXT's main event and they weren't gona switch in the final Q.


Shida is my fave wrestler atm...


----------



## The Wood

I can’t believe Bryan Alvarez is miffed by this. He’s actually throwing Omega and Moxley not being on the show as being “as good a guess as any.” How about you’re pushing a parody of wrestling against your top star as your main event program? There’s no great mystery to this, haha. The longer they do this, the greater the damage will be. It’s _obvious_.

Let’s see if Tony Khan has the balls to change direction.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> I can’t believe Bryan Alvarez is miffed by this. He’s actually throwing Omega and Moxley not being on the show as being “as good a guess as any.” How about you’re pushing a parody of wrestling against your top star as your main event program? There’s no great mystery to this, haha. The longer they do this, the greater the damage will be. It’s _obvious_.
> 
> Let’s see if Tony Khan has the balls to change direction.


7:10-8:16


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Let’s see if Tony Khan has the balls to change direction.


I don't think he knows how.

Tony, if you're reading this I'm available


----------



## The Wood

I’m just imagining the scenario Tony Khan is currently in. You’ve GOT to pull this push now, which means stepping on this guy’s feelings. This might be the hardest line TK has had to toe since Dynamite started.

But that they’re in this position against all common sense is damning enough. Does Shahid Khan need any more proof that his son doesn’t really know how to produce a wrestling promotion?


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think he knows how.
> 
> Tony, if you're reading this I'm available


You just crib ideas from the drive thru podcast.


----------



## The Wood

By the way


Pippen94 said:


> You just crib ideas from the drive thru podcast.


Actually, he disagrees with a lot and at least puts his ideas forward. What do you do?

By the way, no better source to steal from if you are going to.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> You just crib ideas from the drive thru podcast.


Where do you steal yours from? Oh wait, you literally do not have any opinions.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You just crib ideas from the drive thru podcast.


Hmm no, not really. I agree with some of what Cornette says and I disagree with some of what he says. For example he thought MJF Vs Billy Gunn from last weeks Dynamite was good but I thought it was garbage.

I'm just a creative guy who is passionate about wrestling. You shouldn't be criticising anyone's ideas after you were called out to give some of your own and ignored it.


----------



## thorn123

Short of finding a new Hogan or Austin, I fear nothing, not even the perfect booking, will help Dynamite compete with Raw and Smackdown. Its like in upstart, superior burger joint knocking off McDonald’s...not gonna happen...I hope I am wrong...there are things AEW can improve, sure, but it’s pretty darn good.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> Short of finding a new Hogan or Austin, I fear nothing, not even the perfect booking, will help Dynamite compete with Raw and Smackdown. Its like in upstart, superior burger joint knocking off McDonald’s...not gonna happen...I hope I am wrong...there are things AEW can improve, sure, but it’s pretty darn good.


Don't worry, some blokes on here say Orange Cassidy is the next Rock so AEW should be number 1 in a year or two.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Tsvetoslava said:


> Is it politically correct if I say Sonny Kiss is hurting the program and is insulting the business? That shit is weird as fuck, I respect his life decisions but the guy clearly doesnt have a place at Dynamite.
> 
> I hate my favourite wrestling show pandering to the modern trends so much.


There's nothing he could do that guys like Marko Stunt or Orange Cassidy haven't already done to hurt AEW.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> Short of finding a new Hogan or Austin, I fear nothing, not even the perfect booking, will help Dynamite compete with Raw and Smackdown. Its like in upstart, superior burger joint knocking off McDonald’s...not gonna happen...I hope I am wrong...there are things AEW can improve, sure, but it’s pretty darn good.


More like a knock-off burger joint trying to compete with a few people saying its burgers are better.


----------



## rbl85

Next week for the detailed ratings because there was glitch with Nelson.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> More like a knock-off burger joint trying to compete with a few people saying its burgers are better.


My local kebab and burger place are awesome


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q2 of AEW beat NXT in total viewers?
> 
> That was Shida's segment! Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet Q7 had a huge drop in favor of NXT's main event and they weren't gona switch in the final Q.


There was 3 quarters during which i was like "this is not going to do good in the ratings".

-The one with Janella and Kiss (even tho it was a good match)
-The quarter 6 (i think it was the Q6) with just talking but no action
- The main event, Orange is good/great when he's not the center of the attention and putting a promo (promos sucks without a crowd) with a brawl against the main event of NXT was weird choice (now maybe it was supposed to be Moxley)


----------



## NathanMayberry

> Orange is good/great when he's not the center of the attention and putting a promo


So he's good/great if he doesn't do exactly what a wrestler is supposed to do? So he's good/great when he's acting like a clown with his hands in his pockets?



Cult03 said:


> They're slowly building him into a more serious character. The nuances are evolving every single week with him. He started as strictly comedy and has moved into a semi-serious role during this Jericho feud. It's a great way to build a babyface because people like him and find him funny.


You guys are the ones not getting it. There is no redemption arc for this guy.

He's a meme. A low card talent. He can be built up against other low card talent like Sonny Kiss. Yet he'shaving a literal blood feud with the company's biggest star.






How can anyone think this is a good idea? Could you imagine if Brock came out every week and made it his mission to put an end to R-Truth? Could you imagine R-Truth being presented as someone who got over in a brawl with Brock?


----------



## rbl85

A comedy act is not supposed to be the main attraction of a show.


----------



## The Wood

Why have people normalised the idea of a “comedy act?”


----------



## Swan-San

Have to say that main event rating is so satisfying.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Swan-San said:


> Have to say that main event rating is so satisfying.


AEW need to buck up. Let’s be honest. Even if it was Guevara vs Hardy, they would not outdraw Balor vs Gargano vs Lee. I want NXT to continue putting on shows and matches like this.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> AEW need to buck up. Let’s be honest. Even if it was Guevara vs Hardy, they would not outdraw Balor vs Gargano vs Lee. I want NXT to continue putting on shows and matches like this.


Yeah but that way the takeover matches don't feel specials....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but that way the takeover matches don't feel specials....


That’s true, but NXT have been doing everything they can to take attention away from AEW. I feel like Tony Khan has got almost too comfortable now about what he puts on TV.
We were saying at the beginning that the fans win at the end of the day. So let’s see fans continue winning.

if Riddle didn’t move to SD, I’d probably end up choosing NXT to watch more frequently, if I’m going to be honest. Riddle, Balor, Kross. That’s like the holy trinity for me.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> That’s true, but NXT have been doing everything they can to take attention away from AEW. I feel like Tony Khan has got almost too comfortable now about what he puts on TV.
> We were saying at the beginning that the fans win at the end of the day. So let’s see fans continue winning.
> 
> if Riddle didn’t move to SD, I’d probably end up choosing NXT to watch more frequently, if I’m going to be honest. Riddle, Balor, Kross. That’s like the holy trinity for me.


NXT is doing the same thing RAW and SDL have been doing for the last x years.

Also apparently some AEW wrestlers (the same for WWE) might not be able to be at fyterfest because people coming back from Florida need to do 2 weeks of quarantine.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Maybe tonight for the details of this week ratings
> 
> EDIT : maybe not XD


Where do you get the ratings breakdown


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Where do you get the ratings breakdown


On the observer newsletter


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> On the observer newsletter


Oh you got to subscribe I'm guessing


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Oh you got to subscribe I'm guessing


Yes


----------



## TD Stinger

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but that way the takeover matches don't feel specials....


The only thing stopping Takeover matches from feeling less special right now is a lack of a crowd and that's a problem across the board. Since NXT went to USA Network both Takeover War Games and Takeover Portland still felt like big Takeover specials with big matches.

NXT going to USA Newtork, despite only happening because of AEW, has been the best thing for them because for the longest time, NXT TV, while usually solid, was very simple in it's execution, usually saving a lot of big matches for the Takeover cards. Now that they have to deliver big matches more often, it's lead to more exciting TV for them.


----------



## The Wood

I can’t even tell you what the Takeover matches are. Don’t let that be an excuse if they continue to beat AEW.


----------



## Mike E

NXT put on a really good show this week, they advertised a "must see" match that lived up to the billing. I feel like AEW have some great angles and programs just waiting to be put into motion but for some reason just keep on holding off on them. The shows just seem stagnant at the moment, and I hope after Fyter fest they start pushing more of the talent they should be pushing. They were doing some great stuff from January up through early March. I'm still overall enjoying the show but we should be seeing alot more of guys like MJF, Hangman page, Pac, Lucha Bros, Omega, Cage, Wardlow, Archer to name a few. The sky isn't necessarily falling though, even with a terrible viewership number they were still in the top 20 and beat NXT considerably in the key demo. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens after Fyter Fest.


----------



## The Wood

This was not a special episode of NXT and AEW has not been holding back.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Orange Cassidy 550k viewers lmao holy shit


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Orange Cassidy 550k viewers lmao holy shit


He’s popular with casuals and that guy who is Eminem’s friend, don’t you know? Can’t you see how many people share his stuff on Twitter. Just a sensation waiting to happen.

This is what wrestling should be in 2020. Everyone else is just out of touch.


----------



## Prosper

I'm just gonna set the expectations now. NXT is gonna win next week. They just booked Io Shirai vs Sasha Banks. LOL. A dream match on free TV. That's a dagger straight to the heart.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, NXT going for the kill. Get the perves and the people who appreciate women’s wrestling and some main roster fans. And those with some NXT nostalgia too.

I actually predicted AEW to win and people to call “false alarm” on this week, which isn’t wise, but NXT has a real shot now.

AEW’s best hope, honestly, is that the fans feel sorry for them and deliberately prioritise AEW because they get word of the bad number. A “pity flow,” if you wiiilllll.


----------



## Not Lying

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm just gonna set the expectations now. NXT is gonna win next week. They just booked Io Shirai vs Sasha Banks. LOL. A dream match on free TV. That's a dagger straight to the heart.


The switch from AEW to NXT when that match happens should be an indicator to how much of their fan-base care about good women wrestling, which is their weakest division. Hopefully it'll be a wake up for them to look for and hire some good indy women.


----------



## TD Stinger

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm just gonna set the expectations now. NXT is gonna win next week. They just booked Io Shirai vs Sasha Banks. LOL. A dream match on free TV. That's a dagger straight to the heart.


The ratings game is such a weird one so I really don't expect anything next week because anything can happen.

But for myself, most of the time I watch both shows at the same time but every now and again I watch one before the other. I was planning to watch AEW first next week with some of the matches they have, but with them dangling the Sasha vs. Io carrot in front of my face, might have to reconsider.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Lol, NXT going for the kill. Get the perves and the people who appreciate women’s wrestling and some main roster fans. And those with some NXT nostalgia too.
> 
> I actually predicted AEW to win and people to call “false alarm” on this week, which isn’t wise, but NXT has a real shot now.
> 
> AEW’s best hope, honestly, is that the fans feel sorry for them and deliberately prioritise AEW because they get word of the bad number. A “pity flow,” if you wiiilllll.


They most certainly went for the kill. Sasha is already a proven live draw within NXT parameters. If AEW wins the live numbers next week, I'd be legit surprised. Still doesn't really matter though from my POV because you'll have people watching the replays or people will have both streams up on their computers lol. You know I'm one of the biggest AEW fans on here, and even I may have to watch NXT live and catch the Dynamite replay after. Io Shirai vs Sasha Banks is legit "can't miss" TV.


----------



## taker1986

Seriously if AEW want yo turn this around they need to stop holding back on their big matches and putting some of them out on TV. NXT has a WM level match next week in Sasha v Io Shirai and the week after they have a unification title match between Adam Cole and Keith Lee which is NXT equivalent of a unification title match between Mox and Cody.


----------



## The Wood

taker1986 said:


> Seriously if AEW want yo turn this around they need to stop holding back on their big matches and putting some of them out on TV. NXT has a WM level match next week in Sasha v Io Shirai and the week after they have a unification title match between Adam Cole and Keith Lee which is NXT equivalent of a unification title match between Mox and Cody.


Hot-shotting is a bad idea. But this is what I said would happen from the start. They actually have burnt through the biggest matches they can really advertise. They haven't done Mox vs. MJF and Mox vs. Cody, I guess. Apart from that, Jericho has basically feuded with everyone. They can pull the trigger on things like Jungle Boy and/or Darby Allin beating Cody, but Darby Allin might be shelved and it's too early for JB, and where do you go after that? 

"What's next?" is a valid question. NXT always has options as to what to do next. They can heat and cool as they like. AEW loses people if they change gear, but if they go full gear they burn themselves out. That they devalue basically every big match they have is a problem too.


----------



## The Wood

You know what would be best for AEW? To have a good, logical, well-paced, well-structured wrestling show that makes sense and doesn't rush through a million things and has you waiting to see just what happens next in order to get to the eventual blow-off matches. You know, pro-wrestling? 

The WWF didn't need to give away Austin vs. Michaels on TV instead of WrestleMania to turn things around on Nitro. They had angles to spurn things forward to a conclusion people wanted to see. That included Mike Tyson, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels being a prick, Austin not being able to get at Michaels, the hype videos explaining who both guys were. Underneath you had Taker and Kane in an extremely well-built feud. You also had Shamrock vs. Rock and The New Age Outlaws vs. Foley & Funk. Off the top of my head, I can remember those as the top four matches. I think you then had the mixed tag featuring the "sexy woman" and her program, which was the sideshow attraction. 

The hype and build for wrestling is what makes it. Not throwing a bunch of big matches out there like candy, because then you've got nowhere to go.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> You know what would be best for AEW? To have a good, logical, well-paced, well-structured wrestling show that makes sense and doesn't rush through a million things and has you waiting to see just what happens next in order to get to the eventual blow-off matches. You know, pro-wrestling?
> 
> The WWF didn't need to give away Austin vs. Michaels on TV instead of WrestleMania to turn things around on Nitro. They had angles to spurn things forward to a conclusion people wanted to see. That included Mike Tyson, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels being a prick, Austin not being able to get at Michaels, the hype videos explaining who both guys were. Underneath you had Taker and Kane in an extremely well-built feud. You also had Shamrock vs. Rock and The New Age Outlaws vs. Foley & Funk. Off the top of my head, I can remember those as the top four matches. I think you then had the mixed tag featuring the "sexy woman" and her program, which was the sideshow attraction.
> 
> The hype and build for wrestling is what makes it. Not throwing a bunch of big matches out there like candy, because then you've got nowhere to go.


You're comparing a company who up until that point had been going for 50 years, had some of the greatest talent the business had ever seen, building up to their biggest show of the year to a company that's been on the air for a year building towards a special Dynamite event.

Why?


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Hot-shotting is a bad idea. But this is what I said would happen from the start. They actually have burnt through the biggest matches they can really advertise. They haven't done Mox vs. MJF and Mox vs. Cody, I guess. Apart from that, Jericho has basically feuded with everyone. They can pull the trigger on things like Jungle Boy and/or Darby Allin beating Cody, but Darby Allin might be shelved and it's too early for JB, and where do you go after that?
> 
> "What's next?" is a valid question. NXT always has options as to what to do next. They can heat and cool as they like. AEW loses people if they change gear, but if they go full gear they burn themselves out. That they devalue basically every big match they have is a problem too.


Sorry for all the quotes lol but I have to address. No they haven't. There is so much left. You're just not being as imaginative with AEW as you are with NXT. I'll just go with Hangman as an example. You have Hangman vs Omega, Hangman vs Moxley, Hangman vs Cody, Hangman vs Archer, Hangman vs MJF, Hangman vs Jericho again, Hangman vs Darby Allin, Hangman vs Sammy G later down the line. You can do the same with Cody, Omega, Darby, Sammy G, Brian Cage, Moxley, MJF etc. There are so many heel turns and storylines that can come from all of that on just Hangmans end that can bridge to other programs. 




The Wood said:


> You know what would be best for AEW? To have a good, logical, well-paced, well-structured wrestling show that makes sense and doesn't *rush through a million things and has you waiting to see just what happens next in order to get to the eventual blow-off matches. *You know, pro-wrestling?


No way you just said this. This is what they are doing now and you guys are shitting on them for it. You guys want the balls to the wall good storylines now and don't want to go through shows like Fyter Fest first before getting there. Everyone here wants them to hotshot and rush stuff like the MJF title win for example. People on here were pissed that we didn't get MJF vs Moxley right out of Revolution. AEW opted to not rush that and do Brodie instead and you guys tore them apart on here.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Yeah but that way the takeover matches don't feel specials....


When you do only what four Takeovers per year. You can give your audience a little more on tv. Put it this way of NXT can do it. So can AEW when you consider their roster is deeper then NXT after losing a guy like Riddle to main roster and Dream in trouble.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> No way you just said this. This is what they are doing now and you guys are shitting on them for it. You guys want the balls to the wall good storylines now and don't want to go through shows like Fyter Fest first before getting there. Everyone here wants them to hotshot and rush stuff like the MJF title win for example. People on here were pissed that we didn't get MJF vs Moxley right out of Revolution. AEW opted to not rush that and do Brodie instead and you guys tore them apart on here.


People will never be happy.

They could put on good storylines but it'll be "with the wrong people"

They could do a genuinely good angle or good vignettes and segments but it'll be "a shame it's wasted on them"

They could be giving the undercard some character and things to do but it'll always be "the wrong undercard"

Best off to sort of just ignore other peoples opinions on a wrestling forum really, or at least 'respect' it - it's an opinion after all.

I've enjoyed the slow Cody change over the course of the year. Some other people will say "it's too obvious, so you can't enjoy it"

As someone who didn't really like Dark Order, I've enjoyed the Dark Order courting Colt Cabana yet some people won't like it "because it's the Dark Order"

I've enjoyed the Sonny Kiss/Janela pairing as both needed something to do, it gets Janela out of the singles division and they work but people won't like it because for some reason "Sonny Kiss doesn't belong on Dynamite"

I like seeing Lance Archer on my TV but some people will still shit on it because "He's wasting his time with so and so"

It's got to the stage where I don't even come on here when watching Dynamite anymore and barely engage in conversation regarding the show with people.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW has been up and down on these empty arena shows. This week was not one of their better shows. Still better than watching about anything WWE branded as to me I have not enjoyed a single episode of empty arena WWE show. AEW still won the ratings demo despite the sad viewership numbers. Really big decline. Io vs Sasha might be a dream match to 200-300 K fans (at the most). NXT doing a Winner Take All seems quite desperate. If AEW starts losing the demo or continues to go below .25 they are in trouble.


----------



## Erik.

CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW has been up and down on these empty arena shows. This week was not one of their better shows. Still better than watching about anything WWE branded as to me I have not enjoyed a single episode of empty arena WWE show. AEW still won the ratings demo despite the sad viewership numbers. Really big decline. Io vs Sasha might be a dream match to 200-300 K fans (at the most). NXT doing a Winner Take All seems quite desperate. If AEW starts losing the demo or continues to go below .25 they are in trouble.


What makes a good wrestling show in 2020, especially one with no fans?

Not a dig at you, just interested to know.

I also think the shows have been up and down - Jericho has alluded to the fact that without an audience it's hard to create 'heat' which is why they've leaned into comedy to try and lighten up the mood with everything going on - but I thought last weeks show was pretty good compared to some of the shows they've given us.

They gave us storyline progression, character development, good matches and build to next weeks show.

Which is a lot better than some shows that are either just matches or promos for the sake of it.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> People will never be happy.
> 
> They could put on good storylines but it'll be "with the wrong people"
> 
> They could do a genuinely good angle or good vignettes and segments but it'll be "a shame it's wasted on them"
> 
> They could be giving the undercard some character and things to do but it'll always be "the wrong undercard"
> 
> Best off to sort of just ignore other peoples opinions on a wrestling forum really, or at least 'respect' it - it's an opinion after all.
> 
> I've enjoyed the slow Cody change over the course of the year. Some other people will say "it's too obvious, so you can't enjoy it"
> 
> As someone who didn't really like Dark Order, I've enjoyed the Dark Order courting Colt Cabana yet some people won't like it "because it's the Dark Order"
> 
> I've enjoyed the Sonny Kiss/Janela pairing as both needed something to do, it gets Janela out of the singles division and they work but people won't like it because for some reason "Sonny Kiss doesn't belong on Dynamite"
> 
> I like seeing Lance Archer on my TV but some people will still shit on it because "He's wasting his time with so and so"
> 
> It's got to the stage where I don't even come on here when watching Dynamite anymore and barely engage in conversation regarding the show with people.


Yeah, I guess you're right. The live Dynamite threads are cancer, I don't blame you for not taking part.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah, I guess you're right. The live Dynamite threads are cancer, I don't blame you for not taking part.


I'm not on the wrestling scene for nitpicking shit to be honest - so it's probably for the best.


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> That’s true, but NXT have been doing everything they can to take attention away from AEW. I feel like Tony Khan has got almost too comfortable now about what he puts on TV.
> We were saying at the beginning that the fans win at the end of the day. So let’s see fans continue winning.
> 
> if Riddle didn’t move to SD, I’d probably end up choosing NXT to watch more frequently, if I’m going to be honest. Riddle, Balor, Kross. That’s like the holy trinity for me.



Yeah it really doesn't make sense when you think about it. Since Revolution they added Matt Hardy, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer. Yet we are getting less big match ups then before? Heck someone like Hager didn't wrestle to Revolution and Wardlow had one match. 


So AEW roster is way deeper then before. Yet we are getting less competitive matches? Like we can't get Mox/Pac or Omega/Pac level matches on tv anymore. Or even tag match like Omega/Page vs Mox/Pac? 


Even if AEW did Mox/Cody vs Hager/Cage main event on go home show. There's enough stars and interest of seeing how Mox/Cody team together. That could counter a big 3 way NXT match. Instead they had highlight of Cody press conference at 730 and plan was for Mox vs Jon Cruz. And settled on Jericho/Cassidy main event. 


It's like AEW is trying to bring the show back to pre attitude era. With bunch of squash or non competitive singles matches for top guys. While mid card guys get tossed in bunch of tag stuff. Well that's not going to work in 2020 when you are going head to head with WWE company.


Like I mentioned earlier TNT must be totally fine with these ratings during pandemic. Otherwise theres no way he would be tossing out these AEW Dark cards every week. It almost feels like they are trying to save the good stuff for crowds back. Well I don't think crowds are coming back this year. So it's time to stop the weekly non competitive matches and over load of tag matches.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah it really doesn't make sense when you think about it. Since Revolution they added Matt Hardy, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer. Yet we are getting less big match ups then before? Heck someone like Hager didn't wrestle to Revolution and Wardlow had one match.
> 
> 
> So AEW roster is way deeper then before. Yet we are getting less competitive matches? Like we can't get Mox/Pac or Omega/Pac level matches on tv anymore. Or even tag match like Omega/Page vs Mox/Pac?
> 
> 
> Even if AEW did Mox/Cody vs Hager/Cage main event on go home show. There's enough stars and interest of seeing how Mox/Cody team together. That could counter a big 3 way NXT match. Instead they had highlight of Cody press conference at 730 and plan was for Mox vs Jon Cruz. And settled on Jericho/Cassidy main event.
> 
> 
> It's like AEW is trying to bring the show back to pre attitude era. With bunch of squash or non competitive singles matches for top guys. While mid card guys get tossed in bunch of tag stuff. Well that's not going to work in 2020 when you are going head to head with WWE company.
> 
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier TNT must be totally fine with these ratings during pandemic. Otherwise theres no way he would be tossing out these AEW Dark cards every week. It almost feels like they are trying to save the good stuff for crowds back. Well I don't think crowds are coming back this year. So it's time to stop the weekly non competitive matches and over load of tag matches.


You said it right. Deeper roster but still dark-worthy matches. You’ve hit the nail on the head for me.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The issue will always be the egos. Its like watching a team of good basketball players but no one wants to pass the ball. They're so determined to not look bad that every feud = 1 match, so no one actually benefits that much. See MJF vs Cody where Cody pretty much did nothing after losing to MJF cheating and MJF gained nothing from beating Cody, my bad, he got a meaningless 1 match feud with Jungle Boy.

I doubt they turn this consistent decline in viewership around. The guys running the show, shouldn't be on the show but they are. Tony Khan isn't a good booker to direct them. Meltzer, the person who is supposed to objectively critique them is sucking them off and defending them instead. And the fans call everything they do, the greatest <championship/promo/tag team match/cinematic match/cage match/viginette> ever. So I doubt much is going to change. Everyone's gonna just keep doing whatever they want. Their ego wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah it really doesn't make sense when you think about it. Since Revolution they added Matt Hardy, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer. Yet we are getting less big match ups then before? Heck someone like Hager didn't wrestle to Revolution and Wardlow had one match.
> 
> 
> So AEW roster is way deeper then before. Yet we are getting less competitive matches? Like we can't get Mox/Pac or Omega/Pac level matches on tv anymore. Or even tag match like Omega/Page vs Mox/Pac?
> 
> 
> Even if AEW did Mox/Cody vs Hager/Cage main event on go home show. There's enough stars and interest of seeing how Mox/Cody team together. That could counter a big 3 way NXT match. Instead they had highlight of Cody press conference at 730 and plan was for Mox vs Jon Cruz. And settled on Jericho/Cassidy main event.
> 
> 
> It's like AEW is trying to bring the show back to pre attitude era. With bunch of squash or non competitive singles matches for top guys. While mid card guys get tossed in bunch of tag stuff. Well that's not going to work in 2020 when you are going head to head with WWE company.
> 
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier TNT must be totally fine with these ratings during pandemic. Otherwise theres no way he would be tossing out these AEW Dark cards every week. It almost feels like they are trying to save the good stuff for crowds back. Well I don't think crowds are coming back this year. So it's time to stop the weekly non competitive matches and over load of tag matches.


I was just saying this in the other thread, it's like they're kind of holding back the good stuff/good matches in hopes for the crowds to return. These shows are nowhere near the level of Pre-Revolution, for obvious reasons. Personally I have enjoyed the shows a lot since Covid started, but I'd be lying if I didn't say there was a little bit of a "restraint" to the show post-DON2. I wouldn't worry about it at this point though, they will have to step it back up post Fyter Fest because they have to convince people that All Out is worth the high price tag of $50 haha, they have no choice.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> You're comparing a company who up until that point had been going for 50 years, had some of the greatest talent the business had ever seen, building up to their biggest show of the year to a company that's been on the air for a year building towards a special Dynamite event.
> 
> Why?


Their history is irrelevant. As recently as the year before it looked like the WWF was in serious trouble. It’s AEW’s fault they have the 



prosperwithdeen said:


> Sorry for all the quotes lol but I have to address. No they haven't. There is so much left. You're just not being as imaginative with AEW as you are with NXT. I'll just go with Hangman as an example. You have Hangman vs Omega, Hangman vs Moxley, Hangman vs Cody, Hangman vs Archer, Hangman vs MJF, Hangman vs Jericho again, Hangman vs Darby Allin, Hangman vs Sammy G later down the line. You can do the same with Cody, Omega, Darby, Sammy G, Brian Cage, Moxley, MJF etc. There are so many heel turns and storylines that can come from all of that on just Hangmans end that can bridge to other programs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way you just said this. This is what they are doing now and you guys are shitting on them for it. You guys want the balls to the wall good storylines now and don't want to go through shows like Fyter Fest first before getting there. Everyone here wants them to hotshot and rush stuff like the MJF title win for example. People on here were pissed that we didn't get MJF vs Moxley right out of Revolution. AEW opted to not rush that and do Brodie instead and you guys tore them apart on here.


None of those matches are there. Sorry, but they’re not. Page is over with the crowd, but he’s firmly mid-card. I also feel like I have seen a lot of them before. AEW has two stars, and they’ve just burnt out one on Orange Cassidy. Where is the next star coming from?

And no, I’m sorry, their current stories are not good. You’ll disagree, but there’s a reason they’re falling real flat, even with hardcores. It’s the same “grr, I don’t like you, brawl, brawl, brawl” shit with a goofy gimmick attached every time.


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> You said it right. Deeper roster but still dark-worthy matches. You’ve hit the nail on the head for me.


The biggest thing binding them is that stupid Win-Loss record shit they use. No top guy wants to take an L so they make a select group of jobbers pile up the Ls and they make them have long matches to make up for it.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276981108224274433
Supposedly Io vs Sasha is already trending lol, AEW is fucked next week as far as "live" viewers 😂


----------



## One Shed

Can AEW finally get a clue? OC is not a threat to anyone. And they are going to have someone like Jericho selling for him in what is going to end up being a 20 minute match presented as a main event. Meanwhile you have a true breakout star like Hangman Page being relegated to short vignettes and not having a match since...DON? And now that he will finally be around again he gets to face a goof like Chuck Taylor.

I hope Tony shakes out the thimble his balls are currently in and does something to use a JRism.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> Their history is irrelevant. As recently as the year before it looked like the WWF was in serious trouble. It’s AEW’s fault they have the


The WWF didn't look in serious trouble the year before at all.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Can AEW finally get a clue? OC is not a threat to anyone. And they are going to have someone like Jericho selling for him in what is going to end up being a 20 minute match presented as a main event. Meanwhile you have a true breakout star like Hangman Page being relegated to short vignettes and not having a match since...DON? And now that he will finally be around again he gets to face a goof like Chuck Taylor.
> 
> I hope Tony shakes out the thimble his balls are currently in and does something to use a JRism.


Page had a match 2 weeks ago.

They need Best Friends to defeat them next week so that Page and Omega can beef up the singles division.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> I hope Tony shakes out the thimble his balls are currently in and does something to use a JRism.


It's coming lol, the fact that all of these guys are young and not stuck in tradition means that shit is about to get hyped. You can say that Io vs Sasha is the equivalent to using "fighting words" lol. No way these guys just take that and not destroy them as far as content. It's actually quite exciting.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Page had a match 2 weeks ago.
> 
> They need Best Friends to defeat them next week so that Page and Omega can beef up the singles division.


The absolute LAST team that should be beating them for the belts are the freaking best friends. If you want to really lose more viewers, give goof Chuck Taylor a title.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's coming lol, the fact that all of these guys are young and not stuck in tradition means that shit is about to get hyped. You can say that Io vs Sasha is the equivalent to using "fighting words" lol. No way these guys just take that and not destroy them as far as content. It's actually quite exciting.


If the response is more OC in the upper card and giving Chuck Taylor a title, it is going to crash and burn.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> The absolute LAST team that should be beating them for the belts are the freaking best friends. If you want to really lose more viewers, give goof Chuck Taylor a title.


Then deal with Omega and Page doing nothing in a tag division that involves actual tag teams.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Then deal with Omega and Page doing nothing in a tag division that involves actual tag teams.


Or actually have a talented tag team beat them. Why are you thinking in such black and white terms?


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Or actually have a talented tag team beat them. Why are you thinking in such black and white terms?


Because I don't want Omega and Page wasted in the tag division.

Have a "talented tag team" defeat Best Friends instead. The tag team division is already the strongest division they have. 

The singles division needs depth right away and Omega and Page starting their own stories post-Fyter Fest would open up much more. Or we could just continue to have Tag Team champions that barely show up and continue the weak mid card and upper card segments we already have.

Either way, it doesn't really bother me. I get my enjoyment out of those I actually like.


----------



## imthegame19

taker1986 said:


> Seriously if AEW want yo turn this around they need to stop holding back on their big matches and putting some of them out on TV. NXT has a WM level match next week in Sasha v Io Shirai and the week after they have a unification title match between Adam Cole and Keith Lee which is NXT equivalent of a unification title match between Mox and Cody.


This...

Now that AEW loaded up on more talent and might added another guy or two next month. They gotta sit back and say ok what are the top 3 matches we wanna do at next four ppvs. If the match isn't on that list the you can start doing other matches on tv.

For example if it's Moxley, they can say we want Mox/MJF, Mox/Omega or Hangman, Mox/Archer and Mox/Cody as his next four ppv opponents. That means everyone else is up for grabs to do a match on tv during the next year.


I know it's not that simple. Since AEW has to worry about guys losing to often. For example with Cole/Lee since it's a WWE show we know. Most likely outcome to that big match is DQ or No Contest. While if it was Mox/Cody. We know it would either be draw or actual winner.


The fact that AEW gives us winners in their matches. Is something that makes there product so much better quality then WWE one. But that also puts AEW in situation where they don't want guys to lose to often. So there putting on less competitive matches because of it.


Like Archer and Brodie Lee just lost to Cody and Moxley. So basically they kept them out of competitive match ups. Since they want them to lose again yet. So Archer destroying guys on Dark and facing Janela at Fyter Fest. While Lee doing storyline recruiting Colt Cabana that will lead to a match at some point.


The thing is you can't prevent Mox, Cody, Jericho and MJF from losing. Or Omega and Page from losing in singles. Since they don't want to weaken tag titles. Well you can't do that and protect Cage, Lee, Archer, Matt Hardy and Hager from losing a lot. Some guys who aren't your top 4 or 5 guys will need to lose or get 50/50 booking.

Like Matt Hardy could easily have 50/50 booking. Since he's not someone who's gonna be in title picture. Same goes with Hager his main asset is Jericho bodyguard and Inner Circle muscle in beatdowns. He doesn't have his own solo character really. So hes someone you can lose in big tv matches to top guys and have him destroy Joey Janela or Daniels types to get wins.



While AEW needs to decide who out of Brian Cage, Lance Archer and Brodie Lee is their top monster. If Cage is your top guy then you move him with top tier guys. 


While then decide out of Archer or Lee character. Who's character and gimmick is strongest. Where they can lose big matches vs top guys here and there and not get buried. Remember in WWE guys like Mankind and Kane lost a lot of matches. But neither where considered buried or jobbers ever and you could always rebound them from loses. Heck Big Show had many stretches where he would lose a lot. But they could always rebound him. Chris Jericho could also lose more and it wouldn't harm him.


My point is AEW needs to know their guys. You gotta have more competitive matches. Which is going to result in some guys losing more then others. You can't protect what 12 or 13 guys with two loses or less per year like they are now. So they gotta decide who they're guys are and in what role. You can always shift and change it. If say Archer or Lee are getting 50/50 booking for Omega, Mox, Cody, Page. But one of those guys gets super over and wanna make them a top heel instead of say Brian Cage.


I know AEW added a lot of new talent over last few months and guys don't wanna come in to new company and lose a bunch right away. So that could be way they are holding back. But they really need to figure out who are they're guys and can't protect everyone at once.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> If the response is more OC in the upper card and giving Chuck Taylor a title, it is going to crash and burn.


Best Friends being tag champions and feuding with Lucha Bros while FTR and Young Bucks feud and Omega/Page are singles stars is far from being a set up to crash and burn. That's a setup for some epic TV. OC being involved in the Jericho/Tyson stuff after Fyter Fest is fine by me, as long as we have 3-4 other major programs going on like FTR/Bucks, Cody/PAC, Hangman/Omega, MJF/Mox, and Cage/Darby, which are all more than likely possibilities if COVID doesn't fuck the show in the ass again.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Because I don't want Omega and Page wasted in the tag division.
> 
> Have a "talented tag team" defeat Best Friends instead. The tag team division is already the strongest division they have.
> 
> The singles division needs depth right away and Omega and Page starting their own stories post-Fyter Fest would open up much more. Or we could just continue to have Tag Team champions that barely show up and continue the weak mid card and upper card segments we already have.
> 
> Either way, it doesn't really bother me. I get my enjoyment out of those I actually like.


I do not want them in the tag division either. That was my whole point. It would make a huge impact for a talented team to Pin Omega or Page. Pinning Chuck would mean literally nothing. You create a team with momentum the first way and you get singles guys back to being singles.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Best Friends being tag champions and feuding with Lucha Bros while FTR and Young Bucks feud and Omega/Page are singles stars is far from being a set up to crash and burn. That's a setup for some epic TV. OC being involved in the Jericho/Tyson stuff after Fyter Fest is fine by me, as long as we have 3-4 other major programs going on like FTR/Bucks, Cody/PAC, Hangman/Omega, MJF/Mox, and Cage/Darby, which are all more than likely possibilities if COVID doesn't fuck the show in the ass again.


Giving Best Friends the belts is a ratings vacuum. Many better tag teams could pull in viewers. Make Trent a singles star and get rid of dead weight Chuck.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> I do not want them in the tag division either. That was my whole point. It would make a huge impact for a talented team to Pin Omega or Page. Pinning Chuck would mean literally nothing. You create a team with momentum the first way and you get singles guys back to being singles.


In your opinion. 

Cool.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Giving Best Friends the belts is a ratings vacuum. Many better tag teams could pull in viewers. Make Trent a singles star and get rid of dead weight Chuck.


It may be, but at the same time, they still need to develop all of their tag teams so that its actually a competitive division outside of the Bucks, FTR, and Lucha Bros. Doing so now also makes Trent a bigger deal when/if he breaks with Chuck in the future. If we can get Best Friends, Santana/Ortiz, and Jurassic Express all up to that FTR/Bucks/Lucha level, then that elevates the division past what anyone most even expect. It just seems to me like you don't like Best Friends though lol.

I see no problem with it. Put the gold on Best Friends, make them legit by doing so, then have them lose them to Lucha Bros later.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> In your opinion.
> 
> Cool.


Whose opinion should I give? Yours? Are there amazing ratings for Best Friends segments that I am not aware of?


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> It may be, but at the same time, they still need to develop all of their tag teams so that its actually a competitive division outside of the Bucks, FTR, and Lucha Bros. Doing so now also makes Trent a bigger deal when/if he breaks with Chuck in the future. If we can get Best Friends, Santana/Ortiz, and Jurassic Express all up to that FTR/Bucks/Lucha level, then that elevates the division past what anyone most even expect. It just seems to me like you don't like Best Friends though lol.


I mean, this is the smart thinking behind it. 

Wait? Omega and Page lost to these two? Wow, they must be alright. Trent has already looked good and gone the distance with Omega before and they're an actual tag team unlike Omega/Page who's lack of true tag team experience should potentially be their downfall anyway. 

We know Trent is the star of the two.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Whose opinion should I give? Yours? Are there amazing ratings for Best Friends segments that I am not aware of?


I have no idea.

I'm not a ratings dork. I like what I enjoy, not what strangers do.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> It may be, but at the same time, they still need to develop all of their tag teams so that its actually a competitive division outside of the Bucks, FTR, and Lucha Bros. Doing so now also makes Trent a bigger deal when/if he breaks with Chuck in the future. If we can get Best Friends, Santana/Ortiz, and Jurassic Express all up to that FTR/Bucks/Lucha level, then that elevates the division past what anyone most even expect. It just seems to me like you don't like Best Friends though lol.


I like Trent. I do not like Chuck because he is a goofy slob who does not care about doing the minimal amount of work necessary to be even a decent worker.

I would definitely put the Bucks in the lower tier too, but I know they will be treated like top guys because of political power.

Give the belts to an actual top team that can help build up others.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> I have no idea.
> 
> I'm not a ratings dork. I like what I enjoy, not what strangers do.


Fair enough. We both want Omega and Page as singles, I just want a great tag team to have the belts right now that can carry the division. That is all. The belts are an afterthought right now.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> I like Trent. I do not like Chuck because he is a goofy slob who does not care about doing the minimal amount of work necessary to be even a decent worker.
> 
> I would definitely put the Bucks in the lower tier too, but I know they will be treated like top guys because of political power.
> 
> Give the belts to an actual top team that can help build up others.


They can still do that and give Best Friends a reign though. Then everyone wins. Trent and Chuck can help build others too. All Out is a little over 2 months away right?

Let Best Friends hold the gold for 8 weeks and drop them at All Out.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> They can still do that and give Best Friends a reign though. Then everyone wins. Trent and Chuck can help build others too. All Out is a little over 2 months away right?
> 
> Let Best Friends hold the gold for 8 weeks and drop them at All Out.


Why? How does everyone win? Your champs would be a goofy team that should not be getting wins over anyone. Others need to help build Chuck, not the other way around. I know they had other plans when they gave the belts to Kenny and Hangman and the virus forced a change. I get all that. But you have a chance to make a star team by having them Pin someone like Page or Kenny. Why ruin that on a goof team?


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Why? How does everyone win? Your champs would be a goofy team that should not be getting wins over anyone. Others need to help build Chuck, not the other way around. I know they had other plans when they gave the belts to Kenny and Hangman and the virus forced a change. I get all that. But you have a chance to make a star team by having them Pin someone like Page or Kenny. Why ruin that on a goof team?


How do you know it wouldn't make the Best Friends a star team though? They may burn the house down at Fyter Fest.

Here are their other teams:

FTR - Feuding with Bucks and in no way they should just come in and win the gold automatically, would be screwed up actually
Bucks - Already lost to Hangman/Omega at Revolution
Lucha Bros - Pentagon was quarantined up until last week
Private Party - Newbies and still green
Janela/Kiss - No.
Jurassic Express - Have been feuding with Wardlow and MJF since before DON2, but a case can be made for them
SCU - Match with Hangman/Omega has happened twice already, and they were inaugural champions
Evil Uno/Stu Grayson - Better to go with Best Friends
Butcher and The Blade - Lower tier tag team, I would pick Best Friends over them. Better match for the TV special.
Santana/Ortiz - They were JUST feuding in the Elite/IC thing for DON2
Havoc/Sabian - They did it on TV already and they are also lower tier
Natural Nightmares - No.

Looks to me like Best Friends was the best choice. Jurassic Express you can make an argument for, but that is subjective depending on who you are more of a fan of, not based on solely elevating the tag teams in the division and making them all look like they are close to Bucks/FTR level.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> How do you know it wouldn't make the Best Friends a star team though? They may burn the house down at Fyter Fest.
> 
> Here are their other teams:
> 
> FTR - Feuding with Bucks and in no way they should just come in and win the gold automatically, would be screwed up actually
> Bucks - Already lost to Hangman/Omega at Revolution
> Lucha Bros - Pentagon was quarantined up until last week
> Private Party - Newbies and still green
> Janela/Kiss - No.
> Jurassic Express - Have been feuding with Wardlow and MJF since before DON2, but a case can be made for them
> SCU - Match with Hangman/Omega has happened twice already, and they were inaugural champions
> Evil Uno/Stu Grayson - Better to go with Best Friends
> Butcher and The Blade - Lower tier tag team, I would pick Best Friends over them. Better match for the TV special.
> Santana/Ortiz - They were JUST feuding in the Elite/IC thing for DON2
> 
> Looks to me like Best Friends was the best choice. Jurassic Express you can make an argument for, but that is subjective depending on who you are more of a fan of, not based on solely elevating the tag teams in the division and making them all look like they are close to Bucks/FTR level.


They are not going to be a star team because I have seen them have matches.

I would have done one of two things. Either have FTR come in and make a statement (this is what I would do if they had crowds) or go with Jurassic Express (without Marko obviously). They have been hot and cold and would be a great focus. Jungle Boy is the literal definition of the working sympathetic babyface who needs to make or get the hot tag.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> They are not going to be a star team because I have seen them have matches.
> 
> I would have done one of two things. Either have FTR come in and make a statement (this is what I would do if they had crowds) or go with Jurassic Express (without Marko obviously). They have been hot and cold and would be a great focus. Jungle Boy is the literal definition of the working sympathetic babyface who needs to make or get the hot tag.


Jurassic Express would have been cool too. It was either them or Best Friends, and they chose to feud Jungle Boy/Lucasaurus with MJF instead, which has worked out very well because we got the great MJF/Jungle Boy match at DON2 (which some were saying was MOTN), we got to finally see that MJF could go in the ring, and we got a fun lumberjack match on Dynamite out of it. A lot of positives. Having FTR come in and automatically throwing the tag titles on them wouldn't come off well at all though. Would draw HEAVY criticism, especially from people who think AEW already has too many "WWE guys" hogging the spotlight as it is. I'd rather they win them at a major PPV, not on free TV. Besides, the Bucks feud is more important to all 4 of those guys right now. They have been talking about it for the last 2+ years and its been pent up.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> How do you know it wouldn't make the Best Friends a star team though? They may burn the house down at Fyter Fest.


Having a good match doesn't mean you are a star and won't erase months and months of being booked like clowns.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> The WWF didn't look in serious trouble the year before at all.


Lowest drawing WrestleMania of all-time, were getting absolutely killed by WCW. At one stage it looked like Vince McMahon wouldn’t be able to pay Bret Hart’s contract. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> It's coming lol, the fact that all of these guys are young and not stuck in tradition means that shit is about to get hyped. You can say that Io vs Sasha is the equivalent to using "fighting words" lol. No way these guys just take that and not destroy them as far as content. It's actually quite exciting.


What you call “tradition” is actually simply having common sense. Their aversion to tradition got them 552k viewers against NXT



Erik. said:


> Then deal with Omega and Page doing nothing in a tag division that involves actual tag teams.


You know that having a bunch of shitty tag teams isn’t good, right? You actually need star teams. It’s better to have a few of them than a whole list of guys a smart person would scrap the moment they got the book. 



Erik. said:


> I mean, this is the smart thinking behind it.
> 
> Wait? Omega and Page lost to these two? Wow, they must be alright. Trent has already looked good and gone the distance with Omega before and they're an actual tag team unlike Omega/Page who's lack of true tag team experience should potentially be their downfall anyway.
> 
> We know Trent is the star of the two.


This is what they are trying to do with Jericho and Orange Cassidy. Guess what? Doesn’t work.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Jurassic Express would have been cool too. It was either them or Best Friends, and they chose to feud Jungle Boy/Lucasaurus with MJF instead, which has worked out very well because we got the great MJF/Jungle Boy match at DON2 (which some were saying was MOTN), we got to finally see that MJF could go in the ring, and we got a fun lumberjack match on Dynamite out of it. A lot of positives. Having FTR come in and automatically throwing the tag titles on them wouldn't come off well at all though. Would draw HEAVY criticism, especially from people who think AEW already has too many "WWE guys" hogging the spotlight as it is. I'd rather they win them at a major PPV, not on free TV. Besides, the Bucks feud is more important to all 4 of those guys right now. They have been talking about it for the last 2+ years and its been pent up.


I would not have them drop the belts at all on free TV, but they have booked themselves in a corner. They should have dropped them at DoN but at this point they desperately should be singles stars again. Having Chuck represent what AEW defines as part of the best tag team in their company just comes across as not being able to take them seriously.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> Lowest drawing WrestleMania of all-time, were getting absolutely killed by WCW. At one stage it looked like Vince McMahon wouldn’t be able to pay Bret Hart’s contract.


1997 was a highly entertaining year. Filled with much better stories than anything going into WM14. 



> This is what they are trying to do with Jericho and Orange Cassidy. Guess what? Doesn’t work.


Worked for me, I enjoyed it.


----------



## The Wood

Breaking up Omega & Page before you do a match with FTR is insane.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> 1997 was a highly entertaining year. Filled with much better stories than anything going into WM14.


That’s exactly the point. When you’re in bad shape, you need to be good.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> That’s exactly the point. When you’re in bad shape, you need to be good.


Or when there's better products out there, you tend to "borrow" their ideas. Which WWF made a habit out of doing. 

Its simply not comparable in 2020 at all. Where the consistently higher rated wrestling show of the week isn't actually better, like it was in 1997


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> You know what would be best for AEW? To have a good, logical, well-paced, well-structured wrestling show that makes sense and doesn't rush through a million things and has you waiting to see just what happens next in order to get to the eventual blow-off matches. You know, pro-wrestling?


Noooo, that'd make too much sense!



Erik. said:


> You're comparing a company who up until that point had been going for 50 years, had some of the greatest talent the business had ever seen, building up to their biggest show of the year to a company that's been on the air for a year building towards a special Dynamite event.
> 
> Why?


Don't you and a lot of the AEW super fans compare AEW and WWE legitimately every day on this forum? Now suddenly it's not okay?



prosperwithdeen said:


> No way you just said this. This is what they are doing now and you guys are shitting on them for it. You guys want the balls to the wall good storylines now and don't want to go through shows like Fyter Fest first before getting there. Everyone here wants them to hotshot and rush stuff like the MJF title win for example. People on here were pissed that we didn't get MJF vs Moxley right out of Revolution. AEW opted to not rush that and do Brodie instead and you guys tore them apart on here.


I'm all for building things up but you look at AEW and their shit quite frankly doesn't make sense. It should be MJF Vs Moxley based on him being at the top of the rankings for the past 6 weeks. Should he win? No. But in classic AEW fashion they've booked themselves into a corner and MJF being undefeated can't end to Moxley because they think it has value therefore they are stuck. MJF needs to continue to be fed midcard guys and enhancement talent whilst we ignore the rankings that allegedly matter because he isn't ready to beat Moxley yet.

LolAEW.



Erik. said:


> People will never be happy.
> 
> They could put on good storylines but it'll be "with the wrong people"
> 
> They could do a genuinely good angle or good vignettes and segments but it'll be "a shame it's wasted on them"
> 
> They could be giving the undercard some character and things to do but it'll always be "the wrong undercard"
> 
> Best off to sort of just ignore other peoples opinions on a wrestling forum really, or at least 'respect' it - it's an opinion after all.
> 
> I've enjoyed the slow Cody change over the course of the year. Some other people will say "it's too obvious, so you can't enjoy it"
> 
> As someone who didn't really like Dark Order, I've enjoyed the Dark Order courting Colt Cabana yet some people won't like it "because it's the Dark Order"
> 
> I've enjoyed the Sonny Kiss/Janela pairing as both needed something to do, it gets Janela out of the singles division and they work but people won't like it because for some reason "Sonny Kiss doesn't belong on Dynamite"
> 
> I like seeing Lance Archer on my TV but some people will still shit on it because "He's wasting his time with so and so"
> 
> It's got to the stage where I don't even come on here when watching Dynamite anymore and barely engage in conversation regarding the show with people.


This post right here is why AEW is in the state it's in.

"Could AEW maybe improve? Nah! People wll never be happy lets keep doing the same thing that is making us lose on average 100,000 viewers a month!"

Your statements are ridiculous also, I'm begging for just one good story line that makes sense I legitimately do not care who is in it at this point. They do waste these beautiful cinematic vignettes on the likes of Janela and Kiss when it could be used on guys like MJF and Jungle Boy, the undercard IS pretty much all messed up and wrong you can't argue that. Marko, Janela, Luther, Private Party, Nakazawa, QT Marshall etc shouldn't be on national television in any capacity. Are we genuinely going to argue that the undercard is "right"?

People don't like The Dark order courting Colt Cabana because it's fucking boring, wake up my dude. Colt cuts a promo saying "Aw shucks, I'm not joining them guise" and then it's "Will he or won't he?" the issue is we've never been given a reason to care about Colt, we have no emotional investment in Colt, Colt's never been established as a good guy, a bad guy or inbetween so who gives a fuck if he joins The Dark Order or not? This is basic story telling gone wrong and you're going to lie to yourself and the other 5 people on here who think AEW does no wrong and say it's because we have an agenda against The Dark Order? Come on bro. That is ridiculous as hell.

How does Janela/Kiss work? Explain this one to me. We saw a boring vignette now they've become a tag team on TV and probably had the worst match of the night this past week. Joey Janela is a comedy goof that wrestles the invisible man and Sonny Kiss has probably only been signed because he's an effeminate gay man and AEW wants to appear inclusive. They are both absolutely awful and neither belong on Dark let alone Dynamite.

Lance Archer hasn't been on your TV in a month, my dude. He's been beating jabronis on Dark until the AEW writers (Who you are selling as being good remember) decide "Oh, we need another match. Lets have Archer randomly attack someone for no reason and put it on our big TV special because reasons". Yes, it is a waste of TV time, it's a waste of Archer who is fucking talented and it's not a crime to point that out.

Dynamite thread is usually quite good. If you can't handle reading a negative opinion maybe forums aren't for you. I have to read about people shitting on Hulk Hogan all the time and he's a favourite of mine.



Lheurch said:


> Whose opinion should I give? Yours? Are there amazing ratings for Best Friends segments that I am not aware of?


There is no point in arguing. Anything AEW does is going to be perfect to some of the people on here. Chuck Taylor could beat Moxley for the World Title and they'd clap and say it was great.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't you and a lot of the AEW super fans compare AEW and WWE legitimately every day on this forum? Now suddenly it's not okay?


No idea.

Youve probably spend more time than me in the AEW section of this forum this year, you tell me.




> This post right here is why AEW is in the state it's in.
> 
> "Could AEW maybe improve? Nah! People wll never be happy lets keep doing the same thing that is making us lose on average 100,000 viewers a month!"
> 
> Your statements are ridiculous also, I'm begging for just one good story line that makes sense I legitimately do not care who is in it at this point. They do waste these beautiful cinematic vignettes on the likes of Janela and Kiss when it could be used on guys like MJF and Jungle Boy, the undercard IS pretty much all messed up and wrong you can't argue that. Marko, Janela, Luther, Private Party, Nakazawa, QT Marshall etc shouldn't be on national television in any capacity. Are we genuinely going to argue that the undercard is "right"?
> 
> People don't like The Dark order courting Colt Cabana because it's fucking boring, wake up my dude. Colt cuts a promo saying "Aw shucks, I'm not joining them guise" and then it's "Will he or won't he?" the issue is we've never been given a reason to care about Colt, we have no emotional investment in Colt, Colt's never been established as a good guy, a bad guy or inbetween so who gives a fuck if he joins The Dark Order or not? This is basic story telling gone wrong and you're going to lie to yourself and the other 5 people on here who think AEW does no wrong and say it's because we have an agenda against The Dark Order? Come on bro. That is ridiculous as hell.
> 
> How does Janela/Kiss work? Explain this one to me. We saw a boring vignette now they've become a tag team on TV and probably had the worst match of the night this past week. Joey Janela is a comedy goof that wrestles the invisible man and Sonny Kiss has probably only been signed because he's an effeminate gay man and AEW wants to appear inclusive. They are both absolutely awful and neither belong on Dark let alone Dynamite.
> 
> Lance Archer hasn't been on your TV in a month, my dude. He's been beating jabronis on Dark until the AEW writers (Who you are selling as being good remember) decide "Oh, we need another match. Lets have Archer randomly attack someone for no reason and put it on our big TV special because reasons". Yes, it is a waste of TV time, it's a waste of Archer who is fucking talented and it's not a crime to point that out.
> 
> Dynamite thread is usually quite good. If you can't handle reading a negative opinion maybe forums aren't for you. I have to read about people shitting on Hulk Hogan all the time and he's a favourite of mine.


Now answer this. Where did I say they can't improve?

You can argue all you want. I couldn't give a shit about the undercard because it doesn't interest me. Maybe it interests other people.

Again, you're arguing with the wrong guy. I've said one hundred thousand times that I've never once watched a wrestling show in my 33 years of life and enjoyed everything it gives me, probably not even enjoy half of what was given to me. In ANY promotion. So AEW wasn't going to be any different to me.

MJF and Jungle Boy feature on the show every single week. Everybody knows who they are. Vignettes are typically used for those people aren't familiar with. Surely, a wresting expert such as yourself would understand that?

Cool, YOU found it boring. Some people didn't. Welcome to wrestling.

In fact, I don't know why I bother. It's tedious now.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Their roster is too big for one 2 hour show. Why would I care about Wardlow vs. Luchasauras? What has Luchasauras even done? Lance Archer has to face Janela just to get on the show? Once Jericho and Cody each get their 10-20 minute segment/match every week, theres only much time for anyone else to get anything meaningful in.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> You can argue all you want. I couldn't give a shit about the undercard because it doesn't interest me. Maybe it interests other people.
> 
> MJF and Jungle Boy feature on the show every single week. Everybody knows who they are. Vignettes are typically used for those people aren't familiar with. Surely, a wresting expert such as yourself would understand that?
> 
> Cool, YOU found it boring. Some people didn't. Welcome to wrestling.
> 
> In fact, I don't know why I bother. It's tedious now.


Okay so the undercard sucks so bad that you don't care about it yet you're on here calling people out for not liking the undercard and saying the undercard is all wrong.

Yeah, Jungle Boy and MJF do feature every week but what do we actually know about them? We know Jungle Boy is the son of a movie star but have we ever had a vignette or even a backstage promo explaining why he's a Jungle Boy on TV? Jungle Boy actually has a pretty sad story with his father dying but getting to see his son have that success as an entertainer but AEW itself has barely touched on it ever.

MJF is even worse. He's a rich guy but we don't know how he's rich or what he's all about. Does he run successful businesses? Is he a stock market guru? Is he just a rich kid who has "old money" (This is what I'd go with, people hate rich kids). Vignettes can explain this, if MJF is a successful businessman we could get a vignette featuring him bossing his workers around and being a penny pinching asshole. If he's a mama's boy with millions coming to him because mummy and daddy are wealthy and successful then SHOW THAT. MJF going home to ask his mum for more cash because he's all out and he needs a new scarf would be the epitome of entertainment.

Darby's a good example as well. We've got a guy running around who is a daredevil not caring if he lives or dies, he's got a depressing story to tell that people would be shocked by but instead of a vignette of him returning to the scene where his drunk Uncle died and he decided he'd be straight edge we instead have him doing skateboard tricks with Tony Hawk. Vignettes are reserved for Joey Janela and Sonny Kiss.

And then I bring this up and people such as yourself tell me I'm being picky or wrong to think that maybe they could do better with it all.

Also, I don't think I'm an expert but a vignette can certainly be used to create another layer to an existing character. Not that AEW has really established the guys anyway as pointed out above.

I don't see anyone finding Colt Cabana and Brodie Lee entertaining but if you did you're a better man than me.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay so the undercard sucks so bad that you don't care about it yet you're on here calling people out for not liking the undercard and saying the undercard is all wrong.
> 
> Yeah, Jungle Boy and MJF do feature every week but what do we actually know about them? We know Jungle Boy is the son of a movie star but have we ever had a vignette or even a backstage promo explaining why he's a Jungle Boy on TV? Jungle Boy actually has a pretty sad story with his father dying but getting to see his son have that success as an entertainer but AEW itself has barely touched on it ever.
> 
> MJF is even worse. He's a rich guy but we don't know how he's rich or what he's all about. Does he run successful businesses? Is he a stock market guru? Is he just a rich kid who has "old money" (This is what I'd go with, people hate rich kids). Vignettes can explain this, if MJF is a successful businessman we could get a vignette featuring him bossing his workers around and being a penny pinching asshole. If he's a mama's boy with millions coming to him because mummy and daddy are wealthy and successful then SHOW THAT. MJF going home to ask his mum for more cash because he's all out and he needs a new scarf would be the epitome of entertainment.
> 
> Darby's a good example as well. We've got a guy running around who is a daredevil not caring if he lives or dies, he's got a depressing story to tell that people would be shocked by but instead of a vignette of him returning to the scene where his drunk Uncle died and he decided he'd be straight edge we instead have him doing skateboard tricks with Tony Hawk. Vignettes are reserved for Joey Janela and Sonny Kiss.
> 
> And then I bring this up and people such as yourself tell me I'm being picky or wrong to think that maybe they could do better with it all.
> 
> Also, I don't think I'm an expert but a vignette can certainly be used to create another layer to an existing character. Not that AEW has really established the guys anyway as pointed out above.
> 
> I don't see anyone finding Colt Cabana and Brodie Lee entertaining but if you did you're a better man than me.


I haven't called anyone out. I said not everyone is going to be happy. Alot of people have praised the Kiss/Janela pairing and the vignettes. And alot of people have been against it, mainly because they don't like the two involved.

Well, we know MJF is a rich snob who thinks he's better than everyone else whilst simultaneously angry at the system for holding him back even though he has the best record in the business of any non champion, he's said as much.

They probably could do a vignette on Jungle Boy and maybe one week they'll do one or a sit down interview with JR to delve deeper into that side of him, considering JR calls him by his real name enough already.

Of course you wouldn't.

I see that you conveniently deleted my question to you. Feel free to answer it this time though.

Where have I said they can't improve?


----------



## Cult03

Hear me out. I think they have something with OC. What if they counteract Sasha VS Io with more OC segments? Lets aim for four. I'd let him challenge Cody for the TNT title ($$$$$) and win it, have Cody attack him after the match moving Cody to the main event while Mox is out.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t even understand your points, Erik. Are you saying AEW is a superior show to NXT and even WWE? Why? That’s why they got killed by 300k viewers to nothing opposition.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> I don’t even understand your points, Erik. Are you saying AEW is a superior show to NXT and even WWE? Why? That’s why they got killed by 300k viewers to nothing opposition.


Shock.

What part of the posts don't you understand? 

Feel free to actually quote them next time. 

Ta.


----------



## K4L318

Cult03 said:


> Hear me out. I think they have something with OC. What if they counteract Sasha VS Io with more OC segments? Lets aim for four. I'd let him challenge Cody for the TNT title ($$$$$) and win it, have Cody attack him after the match moving Cody to the main event while Mox is out.



I hate this so much cuz Cody to me is why they dippin


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Shock.
> 
> What part of the posts don't you understand?
> 
> Feel free to actually quote them next time.
> 
> Ta.


I told you which part. You tried to weasel out of your 1997 example again. Unless you are saying that 1997 WCW was way better than 1997 WWF. Debatable. But you’re implying AEW is way better than NXT/WWE now? Um, why?


----------



## K4L318

imthegame19 said:


> This...
> 
> Now that AEW loaded up on more talent and might added another guy or two next month. They gotta sit back and say ok what are the top 3 matches we wanna do at next four ppvs. If the match isn't on that list the you can start doing other matches on tv.
> 
> For example if it's Moxley, they can say we want Mox/MJF, Mox/Omega or Hangman, Mox/Archer and Mox/Cody as his next four ppv opponents. That means everyone else is up for grabs to do a match on tv during the next year.
> 
> 
> I know it's not that simple. Since AEW has to worry about guys losing to often. For example with Cole/Lee since it's a WWE show we know. Most likely outcome to that big match is DQ or No Contest. While if it was Mox/Cody. We know it would either be draw or actual winner.
> 
> 
> The fact that AEW gives us winners in their matches. Is something that makes there product so much better quality then WWE one. But that also puts AEW in situation where they don't want guys to lose to often. So there putting on less competitive matches because of it.
> 
> 
> Like Archer and Brodie Lee just lost to Cody and Moxley. So basically they kept them out of competitive match ups. Since they want them to lose again yet. So Archer destroying guys on Dark and facing Janela at Fyter Fest. While Lee doing storyline recruiting Colt Cabana that will lead to a match at some point.
> 
> 
> The thing is you can't prevent Mox, Cody, Jericho and MJF from losing. Or Omega and Page from losing in singles. Since they don't want to weaken tag titles. Well you can't do that and protect Cage, Lee, Archer, Matt Hardy and Hager from losing a lot. Some guys who aren't your top 4 or 5 guys will need to lose or get 50/50 booking.
> 
> Like Matt Hardy could easily have 50/50 booking. Since he's not someone who's gonna be in title picture. Same goes with Hager his main asset is Jericho bodyguard and Inner Circle muscle in beatdowns. He doesn't have his own solo character really. So hes someone you can lose in big tv matches to top guys and have him destroy Joey Janela or Daniels types to get wins.
> 
> 
> 
> While AEW needs to decide who out of Brian Cage, Lance Archer and Brodie Lee is their top monster. If Cage is your top guy then you move him with top tier guys.
> 
> 
> While then decide out of Archer or Lee character. Who's character and gimmick is strongest. Where they can lose big matches vs top guys here and there and not get buried. Remember in WWE guys like Mankind and Kane lost a lot of matches. But neither where considered buried or jobbers ever and you could always rebound them from loses. Heck Big Show had many stretches where he would lose a lot. But they could always rebound him. Chris Jericho could also lose more and it wouldn't harm him.
> 
> 
> My point is AEW needs to know their guys. You gotta have more competitive matches. Which is going to result in some guys losing more then others. You can't protect what 12 or 13 guys with two loses or less per year like they are now. So they gotta decide who they're guys are and in what role. You can always shift and change it. If say Archer or Lee are getting 50/50 booking for Omega, Mox, Cody, Page. But one of those guys gets super over and wanna make them a top heel instead of say Brian Cage.
> 
> 
> I know AEW added a lot of new talent over last few months and guys don't wanna come in to new company and lose a bunch right away. So that could be way they are holding back. But they really need to figure out who are they're guys and can't protect everyone at once.


bruh da reason they doing bad is cuz when Shida go on and leaves, the 50 year olds turn to NXT to watch da chicks. 

da chicks tune in a bit for Balor and dat Bossman ripoff.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm all for building things up but you look at AEW and their shit quite frankly doesn't make sense. It should be MJF Vs Moxley based on him being at the top of the rankings for the past 6 weeks. Should he win? No. But in classic AEW fashion they've booked themselves into a corner and MJF being undefeated can't end to Moxley because they think it has value therefore they are stuck. MJF needs to continue to be fed midcard guys and enhancement talent whilst we ignore the rankings that allegedly matter because he isn't ready to beat Moxley yet.
> 
> LolAEW.


This is all head canon. Of course you would take a pandemic as booking yourself into a corner. You're just ignoring all the details like usual and trying to present convenient narratives to make arguments.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> I haven't called anyone out. I said not everyone is going to be happy. Alot of people have praised the Kiss/Janela pairing and the vignettes. And alot of people have been against it, mainly because they don't like the two involved.
> 
> Well, we know MJF is a rich snob who thinks he's better than everyone else whilst simultaneously angry at the system for holding him back even though he has the best record in the business of any non champion, he's said as much.
> 
> They probably could do a vignette on Jungle Boy and maybe one week they'll do one or a sit down interview with JR to delve deeper into that side of him, considering JR calls him by his real name enough already.
> 
> Of course you wouldn't.
> 
> I see that you conveniently deleted my question to you. Feel free to answer it this time though.
> 
> Where have I said they can't improve?


Who praised Janela and Kiss? Most people on here (Except the hardcore AEW fans) shit all over it and said it was a stupid pairing. 

Yes, he's a rich snob but he has no further depth. How did he make his millions? Why is he so sure of himself? How did he become such a phenomenal wrestler? Was he born with it? Did he put his millions into the best coaches available? Of course we don't need to answer all of these but how he's rich would probably be a good place to start.

Yeah, the time has passed on explaining why Jungle Boy is the way he is. That is shit they should've been doing in their first four weeks on the air instead of 25 minute six man tag main events.

I deleted it because it's a silly question. You've never openly said that (Not recently at least) but it's your attitude. You are one of the few on here who come across as if AEW is perfect. 



Cult03 said:


> Hear me out. I think they have something with OC. What if they counteract Sasha VS Io with more OC segments? Lets aim for four. I'd let him challenge Cody for the TNT title ($$$$$) and win it, have Cody attack him after the match moving Cody to the main event while Mox is out.


Lol.



K4L318 said:


> bruh da reason they doing bad is cuz when Shida go on and leaves, the 50 year olds turn to NXT to watch da chicks.
> 
> da chicks tune in a bit for Balor and dat Bossman ripoff.


I hear ya my man.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> I hear ya my man.


When AEW started the first thing I said was ok give dem mofos some time. 

bruh Cody makin it all about him. 
Brandi is fucking gettin push after push on AEW

at some point Tony Khan gotta put his foot down, Cody and Brandi aint worth it.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> I told you which part. You tried to weasel out of your 1997 example again. Unless you are saying that 1997 WCW was way better than 1997 WWF. Debatable. But you’re implying AEW is way better than NXT/WWE now? Um, why?


I think 1997 WCW is one of the best years of any organisation ever.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Who praised Janela and Kiss? Most people on here (Except the hardcore AEW fans) shit all over it and said it was a stupid pairing.
> 
> Yes, he's a rich snob but he has no further depth. How did he make his millions? Why is he so sure of himself? How did he become such a phenomenal wrestler? Was he born with it? Did he put his millions into the best coaches available? Of course we don't need to answer all of these but how he's rich would probably be a good place to start.
> 
> Yeah, the time has passed on explaining why Jungle Boy is the way he is. That is shit they should've been doing in their first four weeks on the air instead of 25 minute six man tag main events.
> 
> I deleted it because it's a silly question. You've never openly said that (Not recently at least) but it's your attitude. You are one of the few on here who come across as if AEW is perfect.


It's got plenty of praise online.

Why is him being a rich snob and feeling like he's better then everyone else (whilst proving it by beating everything else, might I add) need MORE depth? Who are your top 5 superstars of all time? What were your favourite vignettes of them that showed off their deep rooted history on who they were and why they are the way they are?

Might as well give up on Jungle Boy then. He's never going to amount to anything now that a select few have no idea who he is.

It's a 'silly' question because you can't answer it.

My attitude on wrestling is that I watch the shit I enjoy - so I comment on the shit I enjoy.

I apologise that I don't spend half my day shitting on things I don't like, yet watch.


----------



## thorn123

Can’t wait for fyter fest...it’s Sunday and I need me some AEW...I am not fussed about winning any Wednesday night war, I just want the show to rate enough to keep airing entertaining shows.


----------



## The Wood

I think Cult’s onto something though. Was Steve Austin an overnight success? Ma


DaveRA said:


> Can’t wait for fyter fest...it’s Sunday and I need me some AEW...I am not fussed about winning any Wednesday night war, I just want the show to rate enough to keep airing entertaining shows.


Then you better hope the shows get more entertaining.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> I think Cult’s onto something though. Was Steve Austin an overnight success? Ma
> 
> 
> Then you better hope the shows get more entertaining.


I think it’s entertaining enough (dont get me wrong...it can improve)


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cult03 said:


> Hear me out. I think they have something with OC. What if they counteract Sasha VS Io with more OC segments? Lets aim for four. I'd let him challenge Cody for the TNT title ($$$$$) and win it, have Cody attack him after the match moving Cody to the main event while Mox is out.


Dude stop, you're almost starting to convince me on the guy lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> When AEW started the first thing I said was ok give dem mofos some time.
> 
> bruh Cody makin it all about him.
> Brandi is fucking gettin push after push on AEW
> 
> at some point Tony Khan gotta put his foot down, Cody and Brandi aint worth it.


Have you met my friend bdon? You and him would get along swimmingly.

We gave them mofos some time but you're right, Cody and Brandi ain't worth it.



Erik. said:


> It's got plenty of praise online.
> 
> Why is him being a rich snob and feeling like he's better then everyone else need MORE depth? Who are your top 5 superstars of all time? What were your favourite vignettes of them that showed off their deep rooted history on who they were and why they are the way they are?
> 
> Might as well give up on Jungle Boy then. He's never going to amount to anything now that a select few have no idea who he is.
> 
> It's a 'silly' question because you can't answer it.
> 
> My attitude on wrestling is that I watch the shit I enjoy - so I comment on the shit I enjoy.
> 
> I apologise that I don't spend half my day shitting on things I don't like yet watch.


Where? Where are all these Janela and Kiss fans? What website? Reddit?

Are you being serious with the question of who are my top 5 of all time that showed off their history? I can't guarantee they always went with the vignette because a lot of guys explained their backgrounds via promo but let me show off a"rich guy" vignette done right to prove my point.

Case #1: Ted DiBiase promos before officially debuting in the WWF






Within the first 60 seconds we know who Ted is, we see him in a beautiful city in a beautiful vehicle, he tells us his motivation for why he wants money (Love, happiness, buying people and services) and we also find out who Virgil is and what he's all about in SIXTY seconds. We then spend the remaining 80 seconds of DiBiase showing just how powerful money is.

Case #2: Razor Ramon debut in the WWF






67 seconds is all it takes for us to find out that he's a Cuban immigrant who came from the gutter, that he has no formal education but doesn't need it because he's a success anyway. Admittedly we don't find out HOW he became successful (Although McMahon does seem to hint that he made it on the "streets") but we instantly know vital information on his back story.

We know jack shit about most of the guys in AEW.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

K4L318 said:


> When AEW started the first thing I said was ok give dem mofos some time.
> 
> bruh Cody makin it all about him.
> Brandi is fucking gettin push after push on AEW
> 
> at some point Tony Khan gotta put his foot down, Cody and Brandi aint worth it.


I have been waiting for them to change the name to _The AEW & Brandi Show_. No matter what, she finds a way to get on TV.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Where? Where are all these Janela and Kiss fans? What website? Reddit?


I don't frequent reddit - but a quick search on there tells me that most like the Janela/Kiss partnership.

Other forums I am on have praised AEW for the quality of the vignettes as well pairing the two together. But those on the forums tend to watch DARK and have liked the tag team partnership on there, something I wasn't too familiar with.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Are you being serious with the question of who are my top 5 of all time that showed off their history? I can't guarantee they always went with the vignette because a lot of guys explained their backgrounds via promo but let me show off a"rich guy" vignette done right to prove my point.
> 
> Case #1: Ted DiBiase promos before officially debuting in the WWF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Within the first 60 seconds we know who Ted is, we see him in a beautiful city in a beautiful vehicle, he tells us his motivation for why he wants money (Love, happiness, buying people and services) and we also find out who Virgil is and what he's all about in SIXTY seconds. We then spend the remaining 80 seconds of DiBiase showing just how powerful money is.
> 
> Case #2: Razor Ramon debut in the WWF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 67 seconds is all it takes for us to find out that he's a Cuban immigrant who came from the gutter, that he has no formal education but doesn't need it because he's a success anyway. Admittedly we don't find out HOW he became successful (Although that could've come later I don't recall all of these vignettes) but we instantly know vital information on his back story.
> 
> We know jack shit about most of the guys in AEW.


Well, yes I was being serious or I wouldn't have asked.

Do you have the promos of the guys explaining their backgrounds please?

Always liked the Ted Dibiase and the Razor Ramon vignettes. Good choices.

However the Dibiase vignette doesn't tell us how he became a millionaire. And like you say the Razor vignette dosn't tell us how he became successful, he doesn't tell us how he got the money, to get his power and the women. Obviously, the blatant Scarface rip off probably meant he couldn't say cocaine.

It's like why is The Rock the great one, when he always lost big feuds? Why is he the 'Brahma Bull' ? Because of a tattoo? What meaning does that tattoo have to him and why does he have it and why does that link in with his nickname?

Sometimes, it takes promos and years to add depth. Not just vignettes.

I'd have loved vignettes of MJF splashing his money and telling us his family history - but for me, he doesn't need it. We've seen him use his wealth in the sense of hiring mercenaries to attack his rivals. We've seen him use his wealth to gamble on other wrestlers, something that tends to be illegal in sports. I, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, personally don't give a shit HOW he got his wealth. But we KNOW he's got wealth and that tends to make the average person hate him. We've seen him win every big match he's been in so when he says he is better than us, we sort of have to believe it.

I agree with you that the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus and others could probably do with vignettes or sit down interviews to truly tell us about themselves - but I think MJF is far from needing one.

If I was AEW, the best person to start with right now is Ricky Starks.


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude stop, you're almost starting to convince me on the guy lol.


We all know I was firmly against him but a switch flicked this week seeing him go toe to toe with the GOAT. He held his own well enough at this point of his career to have cemented his future in the wrestling world. He has the world at his feet at the moment and he could legitimately become one of the best in the world, if he isn't already


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> I don't frequent reddit - but a quick search on there tells me that most like the Janela/Kiss partnership.
> 
> Other forums I am on have praised AEW for the quality of the vignettes as well pairing the two together. But those on the forums tend to watch DARK and have liked the tag team partnership on there, something I wasn't too familiar with.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes I was being serious or I wouldn't have asked.
> 
> Do you have the promos of the guys explaining their backgrounds please?
> 
> Always liked the Ted Dibiase and the Razor Ramon vignettes. Good choices.
> 
> However the Dibiase vignette doesn't tell us how he became a millionaire. And like you say the Razor vignette dosn't tell us how he became successful, he doesn't tell us how he got the money, to get his power and the women. Obviously, the blatant Scarface rip off probably meant he couldn't say cocaine.
> 
> It's like why is The Rock the great one, when he always lost big feuds? Why is he the 'Brahma Bull' ? Because of a tattoo? What meaning does that tattoo have to him and why does he have it and why does that link in with his nickname?
> 
> Sometimes, it takes promos and years to add depth. Not just vignettes.
> 
> I'd have loved vignettes of MJF splashing his money and telling us his family history - but for me, he doesn't need it. We've seen him use his wealth in the sense of hiring mercenaries to attack his rivals. We've seen him use his wealth to gamble on other wrestlers, something that tends to be illegal in sports. I, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, personally don't give a shit HOW he got his wealth. But we KNOW he's got wealth and that tends to make the average person hate him. We've seen him win every big match he's been in so when he says he is better than us, we sort of have to believe it.
> 
> I agree with you that the likes of Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus and others could probably do with vignettes or sit down interviews to truly tell us about themselves - but I think MJF is far from needing one.
> 
> If I was AEW, the best person to start with right now is Ricky Starks.


A quick Google search reveals that the announcers and Ted himself explained via commentary that DiBiase got his millions from gambling and investments doing well. There was a discussion about it here:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/1yg0un

Vince McMahon mentioned that Ramon felt the streets of America were golden which hints he made his money on the streets. It's subtle but it's there so I'm going to choose tp accept that.

As for The Rock he nicknamed himself The Great One as a heel didn't he? Arrogant heel thinking he's the best is fine. Brahma Bull is clearly because of the tattoo but that's a super minor part of his character. If you ask the question of why he went from Rocky Maivia to The Rock though that was 100% explained in kayfabe and made sense.


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> We all know I was firmly against him but a switch flicked this week seeing him go toe to toe with the GOAT. He held his own well enough at this point of his career to have cemented his future in the wrestling world. He has the world at his feet at the moment and he could legitimately become one of the best in the world, if he isn't already


It’s a good thing it’s at his feet and not in his pockets, or it’s probably get covered in lint.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> It’s a good thing it’s at his feet and not in his pockets, or it’s probably get covered in lint.


He has the whole world in his hands 🤷‍♂️


----------



## rbl85

Meltzer said that it's the last 2 quarters who killed AEW ratings in the 18-49 demo (and overall) because before those 2 quarters the 18-149 demo was more or less at the same level than the week before.
Was the NXT maint even on those 2 quarters ?

He also said that AEW started with more or les 740K viewers.

Only 2 quarters gained viewers, the one with Cody and Shida match and the one with the end of FTR vs SCU and The Bucks, lucha bros.


----------



## Dizzie

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah it really doesn't make sense when you think about it. Since Revolution they added Matt Hardy, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer. Yet we are getting less big match ups then before? Heck someone like Hager didn't wrestle to Revolution and Wardlow had one match.
> 
> 
> So AEW roster is way deeper then before. Yet we are getting less competitive matches? Like we can't get Mox/Pac or Omega/Pac level matches on tv anymore. Or even tag match like Omega/Page vs Mox/Pac?
> 
> 
> Even if AEW did Mox/Cody vs Hager/Cage main event on go home show. There's enough stars and interest of seeing how Mox/Cody team together. That could counter a big 3 way NXT match. Instead they had highlight of Cody press conference at 730 and plan was for Mox vs Jon Cruz. And settled on Jericho/Cassidy main event.
> 
> 
> It's like AEW is trying to bring the show back to pre attitude era. With bunch of squash or non competitive singles matches for top guys. While mid card guys get tossed in bunch of tag stuff. Well that's not going to work in 2020 when you are going head to head with WWE company.
> 
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier TNT must be totally fine with these ratings during pandemic. Otherwise theres no way he would be tossing out these AEW Dark cards every week. It almost feels like they are trying to save the good stuff for crowds back. Well I don't think crowds are coming back this year. So it's time to stop the weekly non competitive matches and over load of tag matches.



Yeah they actually have a pretty solid roster in most departments aside from the women's division andit's not being used anywhere close to its potential.

You have upper card worthy guys - Moxley, jericho, pac, omega, cody, mjf, wardlow, archer, cage, Pentagon jr and hangman.

Mid card - Brodie lee, Matt hardy, allin, sammy Guevara, cassidy, hager, fenix, scorpio sky and maybe starks?

Lower card - kip sabian, Pres10 vance, colt cabana, dusty, qt, spears, Daniels and janela.

Tag division - ftr, young bucks, best friends, butcher and the blade, proud and powerful, scu, angelico and Evan's, private party and jungle express.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said that it's the last 2 quarters who killed AEW ratings in the 18-49 demo (and overall) because before those 2 quarters the 18-149 demo was more or less at the same level than the week before.
> Was the NXT maint even on those 2 quarters ?
> 
> He also said that AEW started with more or les 740K viewers.
> 
> Only 2 quarters gained viewers, the one with Cody and Shida match and the one with the end of FTR vs SCU and The Bucks, lucha bros.


You ever post the quarter hour numbers for this week?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> You ever post the quarter hour numbers for this week?


I said on a previous post that due to a glitch the quarters were not available when Meltzer wrote the newsletter so we will have to wait until next week


----------



## El Hammerstone

RapShepard said:


> You ever post the quarter hour numbers for this week?











411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s NXT and AEW Dynamite


The full ratings breakdown is in for this week's Wednesday Night War, which saw AEW win the demo rating while NXT won overall viewers.




411mania.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> 411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s NXT and AEW Dynamite
> 
> 
> The full ratings breakdown is in for this week's Wednesday Night War, which saw AEW win the demo rating while NXT won overall viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com


These aren’t specific quarters


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> This...
> 
> Now that AEW loaded up on more talent and might added another guy or two next month. They gotta sit back and say ok what are the top 3 matches we wanna do at next four ppvs. If the match isn't on that list the you can start doing other matches on tv.
> 
> For example if it's Moxley, they can say we want Mox/MJF, Mox/Omega or Hangman, Mox/Archer and Mox/Cody as his next four ppv opponents. That means everyone else is up for grabs to do a match on tv during the next year.
> 
> 
> I know it's not that simple.* Since AEW has to worry about guys losing to often. For example with Cole/Lee since it's a WWE show we know. Most likely outcome to that big match is DQ or No Contest. While if it was Mox/Cody. We know it would either be draw or actual winner.
> 
> 
> The fact that AEW gives us winners in their matches. Is something that makes there product so much better quality then WWE one. But that also puts AEW in situation where they don't want guys to lose to often. So there putting on less competitive matches because of it.*
> 
> 
> Like Archer and Brodie Lee just lost to Cody and Moxley. So basically they kept them out of competitive match ups. Since they want them to lose again yet. So Archer destroying guys on Dark and facing Janela at Fyter Fest. While Lee doing storyline recruiting Colt Cabana that will lead to a match at some point.
> 
> 
> The thing is you can't prevent Mox, Cody, Jericho and MJF from losing. Or Omega and Page from losing in singles. Since they don't want to weaken tag titles. Well you can't do that and protect Cage, Lee, Archer, Matt Hardy and Hager from losing a lot. Some guys who aren't your top 4 or 5 guys will need to lose or get 50/50 booking.
> 
> Like Matt Hardy could easily have 50/50 booking. Since he's not someone who's gonna be in title picture. Same goes with Hager his main asset is Jericho bodyguard and Inner Circle muscle in beatdowns. He doesn't have his own solo character really. So hes someone you can lose in big tv matches to top guys and have him destroy Joey Janela or Daniels types to get wins.
> 
> 
> 
> While AEW needs to decide who out of Brian Cage, Lance Archer and Brodie Lee is their top monster. If Cage is your top guy then you move him with top tier guys.
> 
> 
> While then decide out of Archer or Lee character. Who's character and gimmick is strongest. Where they can lose big matches vs top guys here and there and not get buried. Remember in WWE guys like Mankind and Kane lost a lot of matches. But neither where considered buried or jobbers ever and you could always rebound them from loses. Heck Big Show had many stretches where he would lose a lot. But they could always rebound him. Chris Jericho could also lose more and it wouldn't harm him.
> 
> 
> My point is AEW needs to know their guys. You gotta have more competitive matches. Which is going to result in some guys losing more then others. You can't protect what 12 or 13 guys with two loses or less per year like they are now. So they gotta decide who they're guys are and in what role. You can always shift and change it. If say Archer or Lee are getting 50/50 booking for Omega, Mox, Cody, Page. But one of those guys gets super over and wanna make them a top heel instead of say Brian Cage.
> 
> 
> I know AEW added a lot of new talent over last few months and guys don't wanna come in to new company and lose a bunch right away. So that could be way they are holding back. But they really need to figure out who are they're guys and can't protect everyone at once.


And this is why taking out traditional tools for no reason and adding records is so damn stupid. Folk can complain about DQs and Count Outs, not having satisfying finishes, but they serve a very smart purpose and always have. It's a lot better to get a big matchup with a non-finish, than it is to not get them at all. They over complicated something so simple for no reason, just to solve something that wasn't a problem.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said that it's the last 2 quarters who killed AEW ratings in the 18-49 demo (and overall) because before those 2 quarters the 18-149 demo was more or less at the same level than the week before.
> Was the NXT maint even on those 2 quarters ?
> 
> He also said that AEW started with more or les 740K viewers.
> 
> Only 2 quarters gained viewers, the one with Cody and Shida match and the one with the end of FTR vs SCU and The Bucks, lucha bros.


Is it really too hard to say that maybe goofy Matt Hardy beating a possible future star and a goof that does not belong anywhere near a main event led to channels being changed?


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Is it really too hard to say that maybe goofy Matt Hardy beating a possible future star and a goof that does not belong anywhere near a main event led to channels being changed?


Well Matt Hardy has been proven to draw live viewers already so I wouldn't bash or blame him, even though I myself am not a fan of the guy, I'd just say the Kieth Lee/Adam Cole/Balor NA Title match was far more entertaining in comparison for the audience. Its gonna be that way some times. Especially for the next 2 weeks in particular. It doesn't matter how Fyter Fest is structured as far as match placement, they're gonna lose to Io vs Sasha and the title unification regardless.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> It's got plenty of praise online.
> 
> Why is him being a rich snob and feeling like he's better then everyone else (whilst proving it by beating everything else, might I add) need MORE depth? Who are your top 5 superstars of all time? What were your favourite vignettes of them that showed off their deep rooted history on who they were and why they are the way they are?
> 
> Might as well give up on Jungle Boy then. He's never going to amount to anything now that a select few have no idea who he is.
> 
> It's a 'silly' question because you can't answer it.
> 
> My attitude on wrestling is that I watch the shit I enjoy - so I comment on the shit I enjoy.
> 
> I apologise that I don't spend half my day shitting on things I don't like, yet watch.


It's not just AEW but both major promotions have done a piss poor job of adding depth to their wrestlers. Sure just knowing that MJF is rich is enough to get the jist. But adding depth allows you to play with more stuff with his character and make more engaging stories. 

Take someone like Kane, sure they could've stopped with Kane just being Takers long lost brother. But they give him the depth of "hey Taker thought he died in a fire that Taker accidentally started that also killed their parents. Because of this he's physically, mentally, and emotionally scarred so that's why he wears the full body suit and mask. He's pissed at Taker because he caused all this to happen. He hasn't spent much time around other humans". 

That background then allowed you to be extra invested when you thought he was joining sides with Taker, it allowed you to feel for him when his actual dad Paul Bearer betrayed him, it allowed you to root for him when you saw the change X-Pac was bringing to him.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well Matt Hardy has been proven to draw live viewers already so I wouldn't bash or blame him, even though I myself am not a fan of the guy, I'd just say the Kieth Lee/Adam Cole/Balor NA Title match was far more entertaining in comparison for the audience. Its gonna be that way some times. Especially for the next 2 weeks in particular. It doesn't matter how Fyter Fest is structured as far as match placement, they're gonna lose to Io vs Sasha and the title unification regardless.


Matt Hardy has been proven to draw in AEW? When? Did it happen other than in a "name we know first appeared" bump? The ratings have been down since he first showed up.

If the attitude is "nothing we could put on TV has a chance of winning against our competition" then you are pretty much assuring you lose.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Matt Hardy has been proven to draw in AEW? When? Did it happen other than in a "name we know first appeared" bump? The ratings have been down since he first showed up.
> 
> If the attitude is "nothing we could put on TV has a chance of winning against our competition" then you are pretty much assuring you lose.


All of his segments from his debut up to the Stadium Stampede match gained viewers. Since he showed up, live ratings have been up and down, not only down. 

Well it's true, nothing on the Fyter Fest card will outdraw the 2 NXT main events in live viewers. That's my prediction anyway. I'm not saying nothing in general can beat the competition as AEW have been winning the last 13 weeks, I'm just saying with the card we have now probably won't be winning live. Even I will be changing the channel, or maybe just catching the Dynamite replay after.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> All of his segments from his debut up to the Stadium Stampede match gained viewers. Since he showed up, live ratings have been up and down, not only down.
> 
> Well it's true, nothing on the Fyter Fest card will outdraw the 2 NXT main events in live viewers. That's my prediction anyway. I'm not saying nothing in general can beat the competition as AEW have been winning the last 13 weeks, I'm just saying with the card we have now probably won't be winning live. Even I will be changing the channel, or maybe just catching the Dynamite replay after.


I am not sure it is true that ALL his segments gained viewers. I admit I was initially excited to see him in AEW too until he started being a goof and teleporting. Then I wanted him shot into space.

It is true at this point because they have mostly phoned in the card. Jericho fighting a goof as a main match is inexcusable.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> I am not sure it is true that ALL his segments gained viewers. I admit I was initially excited to see him in AEW too until he started being a goof and teleporting. Then I wanted him shot into space.
> 
> It is true at this point because they have mostly phoned in the card. Jericho fighting a goof as a main match is inexcusable.


Jericho vs Orange will not be the main event of night 2.

Also i think some of you are seeing the Io vs Sasha bigger than it will be.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Jericho vs Orange will not be the main event of night 2.


It is a main match on the card. I never said it would be going on last, but Mox's participation is still unknown right? I have not kept up this weekend on news so if something new has come out with him I plead ignorance.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> I am not sure it is true that ALL his segments gained viewers. I admit I was initially excited to see him in AEW too until he started being a goof and teleporting. Then I wanted him shot into space.
> 
> It is true at this point because they have mostly phoned in the card. Jericho fighting a goof as a main match is inexcusable.


It's just a free episode of Dynamite, it's not like Jericho/OC is headlining a major PPV, which is why it's so weird and desperate to give away Sasha vs Io and the title unification just to win the live viewers, not that I'm complaining though. Competition makes everyone better. 

Let OC and Jericho have their match who cares, there are still people who are entertained by it. I for one am looking forward to it more than everything else on the card outside of Mox/Cage, the tag title match, and the 8 Man tag.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

OC Jericho will be a good match. Jericho will make the man look like a million bucks; tbf he already does after his work with Jericho.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's just a free episode of Dynamite, it's not like Jericho/OC is headlining a major PPV, which is why it's so weird and desperate to give away Sasha vs Io and the title unification just to win the live viewers, not that I'm complaining though. Competition makes everyone better.
> 
> Let OC and Jericho have their match who cares, there are still people who are entertained by it. I for one am looking forward to it more than everything else on the card outside of Mox/Cage, the tag title match, and the 8 Man tag.


Should be interesting to revisit this topic depending what he does at the next real PPV.

"Let them have their silly match, who cares" is not going to help improve the product.

I agree competition helps everyone be better. They have a major star with Jericho. He should be used to lift others up and make new ones like when he worked with Mox. Not going down to OC's goof level.


----------



## TD Stinger

Jericho vs. OC will probably main event Night 2 if Mox vs. Cage doesn't happen. I mean even if the World Title match wasn't up in the air, Jericho vs. OC has gotten more hype than the title match anyways.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> OC Jericho will be a good match. Jericho will make the man look like a million bucks; tbf he already does after his work with Jericho.


Jericho will make him look good, but at the end of the day he will still be a goof with a worn out gimmick that causes viewers to flee by the tens and hundreds of thousands.


----------



## The Wood

So we basically have confirmation that the goofy shit TANKED, especially when attached to a star, and people are already making excuses for it. This is what killed WCW.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Should be interested to revisit this topic depending what he does at the next real PPV.
> 
> "Let them have their silly match, who cares" is not going to help improve the product.
> 
> I agree competition helps everyone be better. They have a major star with Jericho. He should be used to lift others up and make new ones like when he worked with Mox. Not going down to OC's goof level.


Its gonna be one of two things. He's gonna be involved in the Tyson/Jericho thing for All Out or will do something with Best Friends in the mid-card.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Jericho will make him look good, but at the end of the day he will still be a goof with a worn out gimmick that causes viewers to flee by the tens and hundreds of thousands.


worn out in what way
and im pretty sure he has drawn in viewers for previous Dynamites. I don't know where you're getting your data from.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> So we basically have confirmation that the goofy shit TANKED, especially when attached to a star, and people are already making excuses for it. This is what killed WCW.


Just let them have their silly, goofy fun. Kids like him you monster! David Arquette being champ will bring in new viewers! No one takes this seriously afterall.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Its gonna be one of two things. He's gonna be involved in the Tyson/Jericho thing for All Out or will do something with Best Friends in the mid-card.


Many people on here are calling for Best Friends to actually pin Kenny or Hangman. So it would not surprise me at all if he is in another highly placed match.

Why would someone like Mike Tyson worry about Jericho if it takes him 20 minutes to beat a goof?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Many people on here are calling for Best Friends to actually pin Kenny or Hangman. So it would not surprise me at all if he is in another highly placed match.
> 
> Why would someone like Mike Tyson worry about Jericho if it takes him 20 minutes to beat a goof?


logic in wrestling? huh lol


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Many people on here are calling for Best Friends to actually pin Kenny or Hangman. So it would not surprise me at all if he is in another highly placed match.
> 
> Why would someone like Mike Tyson worry about Jericho if it takes him 20 minutes to beat a goof?


Lol nobody thinks about it that way though, Tyson vs Jericho is still Tyson vs Jericho at the end of the day. In kayfabe, Tyson doesn't even watch the show.

Lesnar has come in and faced talent who have been in far worse positions.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> worn out in what way
> and im pretty sure he has drawn in viewers for previous Dynamites. I don't know where you're getting your data from.


Worn out in that he is still doing the same exact thing with the play kicks. It had a novelty at first, but doing the same thing with a main eventer like Jericho chased hundred of thousands away. Anyone who stands there and takes his goofiness without punching him in the face looks dumb. Jericho even said he would just kick his teeth in and then ten seconds later let him do all the play kicks. Just dumb and the audience agreed.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> worn out in what way
> and im pretty sure he has drawn in viewers for previous Dynamites. I don't know where you're getting your data from.


There’s a difference between a novelty act getting a few eyeballs because “Haha, look at how bad this shit has gotten, Barry.” That’s why people tune out afterwards. They aren’t sticking around. Also, how many of those segments were actually advertised OC segments?

Jericho vs. Cassidy is TANKING. It’s probably the most obvious slaughter in a long fucking time. They lost to a mid-card Triple Threat featuring Finn Balor, Keith Lee and someone I can’t even remember. *By 300,000 viewers.*

This. Doesn’t. Work. Jericho doesn’t make him look good. It makes Jericho look ridiculous. And that’s your biggest star.

Someone needs to step in and remind Jericho that he’s not bulletproof. And just because he can carry a broomstick, it doesn’t mean he should, and it doesn’t mean he can carry Orange Cassidy.

Pushing forward with this is some serious Eric Bischoff fascination with Hulk Hogan shit/Vince Russo doing whatever the hell he wants shit.


----------



## rbl85

Guys there is more chance to never see Tyson on AEW than him doing something with Jericho


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> logic in wrestling? huh lol


Yeah, it certainly seems to be a foreign concept these days. Completely unrelated to why its popularity is in the toilet of course though. No correlation at all.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Worn out in that he is still doing the same exact thing with the play kicks. It had a novelty at first, but doing the same thing with a main eventer like Jericho chased hundred of thousands away. Anyone who stands there and takes his goofiness without punching him in the face looks dumb. Jericho even said he would just kick his teeth in and then ten seconds later let him do all the play kicks. Just dumb and the audience agreed.


you haven't heard of a signature taunt? My guy, come on now. Something to piss off the guy opposite him and to get the crowd going. When will Orton stop putting his hands up; it's worn out

You are definitely new to pro-wrestling, my guy.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol nobody thinks about it that way though, Tyson vs Jericho is still Tyson vs Jericho at the end of the day. In kayfabe, Tyson doesn't even watch the show.
> 
> Lesnar has come in and faced talent who have been in far worse positions.


I agree that one goofy match is not going to hurt someone like Jericho but it certainly will not help anyone. It takes a bit of the air out of the room for a big match for sure.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The criticism of standard pro-wrestling routine is now becoming unreal, man.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol nobody thinks about it that way though, Tyson vs Jericho is still Tyson vs Jericho at the end of the day. In kayfabe, Tyson doesn't even watch the show.
> 
> Lesnar has come in and faced talent who have been in far worse positions.


Wait? So they’re spending a gazillion dollars on a celebrity who _doesn’t even watch their show?_

By the way, chances are that Jericho vs. Tyson isn’t happening. From the start I joked that Tyson would probably use them as leverage to get a WWE deal. That they did this without a deal in place is incredibly stupid and predictable.

You have the sexual assault awareness thing going on. Bringing back a convicted rapist may not be the best look (got criticism even the first time). Plus they followed up Tyson and Jericho getting into it by labelling Orange Cassidy the “baddest man on the planet” and totally spitting on it.

If it happens, I’ll laugh, but I’m telling you not to count your chickens on that one.

And no, Jericho vs. Tyson is not Jericho vs. Tyson at the end of the day. Austin vs. Tyson wouldn’t have been the same if it involved The Oddities and Austin feuding with an angry dwarf. Stop that line of logic — it’s just wrong.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> you haven't heard of a signature taunt? My guy, come on now. Something to piss off the guy opposite him and to get the crowd going. When will Orton stop putting his hands up; it's worn out
> 
> You are definitely new to pro-wrestling, my guy.


A taunt is something in your face to piss you off. If he started his goofy play kicking and then got hit, dumb but ok. Letting him go through the whole routine makes both guys look like idiots.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, it certainly seems to be a foreign concept these days. Completely unrelated to why its popularity is in the toilet of course though. No correlation at all.


Pro-wrestling is dead bro. WWE/WCW murdered it. You're not going to get back to the glory days, when memes like this constantly circulate.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> A taunt is something in your face to piss you off. If he started his goofy play kicking and then got hit, dumb but ok. Letting him go through the whole routine makes both guys look like idiots.


"why do people let Cena wave his hand in front of them; it makes them both look stupid"

le sigh

Lheurch you've lost yourself mate


----------



## The Wood

This thing has dampened any star power Jericho has to the point where he got killed by NXT by 300k viewers (something like 65% of his entire audience), and people are STILL making excuses for this. THAT is unreal.

You were wrong. Orange Cassidy doesn’t draw. He offends people to the point they switch off IN DROVES. People ignored it to stick with the overall product and he gained some novelty yucks like Shida draws the perves. They don’t stick around and they’re not fans. Now he is the product and people have decided “Nah, fam.”

Why do people refuse to see this? Do they want AEW to get cancelled? Do they want Vince McMahon to be their only option for big arena wrestling?


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Pro-wrestling is dead bro. WWE/WCW murdered it. You're not going to get back to the glory days, when memes like this constantly circulate.
> 
> View attachment 88188


You seem to live a lot of your life in 1995. "No way anyone could take this seriously any more! It is dead! Why even TRY anything when it is already dead?"

Comparing Santino to OC is an absolutely good one though so congrats on that.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> You said it right. Deeper roster but still dark-worthy matches. You’ve hit the nail on the head for me.


But when I suggested they weren’t trying you got all pissy. 


prosperwithdeen said:


> I was just saying this in the other thread, *it's like they're kind of holding back the good stuff/good matches in hopes for the crowds to return. These shows are nowhere near the level of Pre-Revolution, for obvious reasons.* Personally I have enjoyed the shows a lot since Covid started, but I'd be lying if I didn't say there was a little bit of a "restraint" to the show post-DON2. I wouldn't worry about it at this point though, they will have to step it back up post Fyter Fest because they have to convince people that All Out is worth the high price tag of $50 haha, they have no choice.


Again, when I have suggested they weren’t trying and putting together half-assed shows, you got piss


Erik. said:


> Page had a match 2 weeks ago.
> 
> They need Best Friends to defeat them next week so that Page and Omega can beef up the singles division.


They had Omega there for weeks when everyone was being quarantined, and they didn’t use him effectively. Just like they have a ton of other great singles guys they’re not using effectively. I mean, Moxley has had all of about 5 minutes television time since the Hager match. He’s your goddamn World Heavyweight Champion. Why is he not on television!?

Because there names aren’t Jericho and Cody Rhodes.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> "why do people let Cena wave his hand in front of them; it makes them both look stupid"
> 
> le sigh
> 
> Lheurch you've lost yourself mate


Yeah, Cena blows. He helped chase millions of fans away. But even then, waving his hand took what? 2-3 seconds? How long is the play kicking routine? How hard is this to see for some people here?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> But when I suggested they weren’t trying you got all pissy.
> 
> Again, when I have suggested they weren’t trying and putting together half-assed shows, you got piss
> 
> 
> They had Omega there for weeks when everyone was being quarantined, and they didn’t use him effectively. Just like they have a ton of other great singles guys they’re not using effectively. I mean, Moxley has had all of about 5 minutes television time since the Hager match. He’s your goddamn World Heavyweight Champion. Why is he not on television!?
> 
> Because there names aren’t Jericho and Cody Rhodes.


i got what? mate, you're the going around acting all pissy. I've never disagreed with you; you just go overboard with the Cody hate. Stuck on that shit like he fucked your girl



Lheurch said:


> Yeah, Cena blows. He helped chase millions of fans away. But even then, waving his hand took what? 2-3 seconds? How long is the play kicking routine? How hard is this to see for some people here?


Cena is going to be the last major star in pro-wrestling.


Lheurch said:


> You seem to live a lot of your life in 1995. "No way anyone could take this seriously any more! It is dead! Why even TRY anything when it is already dead?"
> 
> Comparing Santino to OC is an absolutely good one though so congrats on that.


Santino was a brought in as a fan in the crowd. OC is brought in as a trained wrestler, but I see your point. And 1995 and 2020 are entirely different eras and generations. The internet is a major blow to pro-wrestling. Everything is at a finger tip. Kids are brought up knowing wrestling is fake.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Pro-wrestling is dead bro. WWE/WCW murdered it. You're not going to get back to the glory days, when memes like this constantly circulate.
> 
> View attachment 88188


Ah, there it is — another “wrestling sucks, so it’s supposed to suck” excuse. I swear to god, the most ardent AEW supporters _hate_ wrestling. It’s stupid, it’s bad, it’s not popular, it’s dead, it’ll never get back casuals.

Aren’t you people supposed to be the optimists? Aren’t you supposed to be the “positive” side? Wait, that’s bullshit. You don’t like wrestling, you like being in a club. When discussing your points, your back always ends up against a wall and some variant of “Wrestling is shit” always comes out of your mouth.

Why bother? Why try with AEW if you are only going to offer up a side to BULLSHIT like Santino Marella instead of an actual alternative? Go home. It’s over. No one wants MORE of this shit.

And it is just ignorant to pretend that there aren’t millions of people out there who would still be interested in wrestling if it didn’t insult their intelligence. You haven’t even tried to get them. If you try and fail, so be it. I don’t think AEW could do it, because they’re actually proud of their current shit. But at least fucking try instead of being such a defeatist from the outset. 



optikk sucks said:


> "why do people let Cena wave his hand in front of them; it makes them both look stupid"
> 
> le sigh
> 
> Lheurch you've lost yourself mate


Waving your hand in front of your own face is not the same as PLAYKICKING SOMEONE WITHIN REACH IN AN ACTUAL FIGHT!!!!

You cannot genuinely see similarities between the two. Austin giving someone the middle-finger is not the same as him winning the WWF Title in a thumb war.


----------



## Rozzop

AEW is basically backyard wrestling. 

You will always get a few people tuning in to see some kid jump off a roof but in the long run it won't sustain the viewership.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

"Why don't wrestlers just stop running after an irish whip?; it makes both guys look dumb"


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Wait? So they’re spending a gazillion dollars on a celebrity who _doesn’t even watch their show?_
> 
> By the way, chances are that Jericho vs. Tyson isn’t happening. From the start I joked that Tyson would probably use them as leverage to get a WWE deal. That they did this without a deal in place is incredibly stupid and predictable.
> 
> You have the sexual assault awareness thing going on. Bringing back a convicted rapist may not be the best look (got criticism even the first time). Plus they followed up Tyson and Jericho getting into it by labelling Orange Cassidy the “baddest man on the planet” and totally spitting on it.
> 
> If it happens, I’ll laugh, but I’m telling you not to count your chickens on that one.
> 
> And no, Jericho vs. Tyson is not Jericho vs. Tyson at the end of the day. Austin vs. Tyson wouldn’t have been the same if it involved The Oddities and Austin feuding with an angry dwarf. Stop that line of logic — it’s just wrong.


Nah Jericho vs Tyson is still that regardless of whether this match with OC happens or not. OC can get some offense in, then get himself Judas Effected, and I wouldn't think any less about Jericho vs Tyson happening. If they don't want to bring Tyson back in, that's fine by me too. Then Jericho can be involved in something else for All Out.



bdon said:


> Again, when I have suggested they weren’t trying and putting together half-assed shows, you got piss


I got irritated at you ripping apart the show for things out of their control. I never said that they were putting on great pandemic TV. How could they? I've always had my own criticisms on how pandemic TV could have been better, but I wasn't blaming them for COVID like it's their fault the roster was mostly gone quarantined, which is the equivalent to what you were doing for months.


----------



## The Wood

The irony about Orange Cassidy playing a trained wrestler and Santino playing a fan is that it’s clear Cassidy has not really been trained, whereas Santino was, albeit not very well.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Cena is going to be the last major star in pro-wrestling.
> 
> Santino was a brought in as a fan in the crowd. OC is brought in as a trained wrestler, but I see your point. And 1995 and 2020 are entirely different eras and generations. The internet is a major blow to pro-wrestling. Everything is at a finger tip. Kids are brought up knowing wrestling is fake.


Cena did a lot of damage. It will take a lot of effort to change perception but nothing is impossible. Having goofs on your show interacting with stars makes the situation worse, not better.

They are different, but you are acting like it is 1995. How many behind the scenes things for movies existed back then vs today? You can see every actor on movie sets out of character on YouTube. Does that take away from being able to suspend your disbelief and watch a movie? Everyone always grew up knowing movies are fake, why make excuses for wrestling?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> "Why don't wrestlers just stop running after an irish whip?; it makes both guys look dumb"


There’s momentum involved. When you actually whip someone, you’ve used the ropes and your strength to set them in motion. Simply resisting that can be an incredibly bad idea.

The Irish whip excuse is becoming a dog whistle for the silly club. Even if you wanted to label the Irish whip as a bit too smooth to be completely realistic, some things can be grandfathered in and are covered by suspension of disbelief. The Irish whip can be about style. That’s why you get criss-cross spots. It’s like the chariot race from Ben Hur. And just because that’s in wrestling doesn’t mean “OPEN THE FLOODGATES, EVERYTHING IS OKAY!!!”


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Nah Jericho vs Tyson is still that regardless of whether this match with OC happens or not. OC can get some offense in, then get himself Judas Effected, and I wouldn't think any less about Jericho vs Tyson happening.
> 
> 
> 
> I got irritated at you ripping apart the show for things out of their control. I never said that they were putting on great pandemic TV. How could they? I've always had my own criticisms on how pandemic TV could have been better, but I wasn't blaming them for COVID like it's their fault the roster was mostly gone quarantined, which is the equivalent to what you were doing for months.


They had talent. They refused to use said talent. Omega twiddled his fucking thumbs. MJF and Page could have been sending in vignettes like they were ALL doing on BTE weekly.

They weren’t even TRYING during the pandemic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Cena did a lot of damage. It will take a lot of effort to change perception but nothing is impossible. Having goofs on your show interacting with stars makes the situation worse, not better.
> 
> They are different, but you are acting like it is 1995. How many behind the scenes things for movies existed back then vs today? You can see every actor on movie sets out of character on YouTube. Does that take away from being able to suspend your disbelief and watch a movie? Everyone always grew up knowing movies are fake, why make excuses for wrestling?


because it is instilled in everyone that pro-wrestling is pretending to be something it's not. when you have a good match, it gets clowned on socials. then when it tries to be what it actually is, people clown it anyway. The internet has really damaged the reputation of pro-wrestling. I think it will take at least a decade for pro-wrestling to be acceptable again. I beg of you to go speak to your 8 year old nephew and show him a classic wrestling match and he'll tell you that shit is fake and gay.


----------



## The Wood

552,000 viewers. That’s all you really need to say.

Hey, isn’t that dangerously close to the number that Dave said TNT was going to be “okay” with?


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> because it is instilled in everyone that pro-wrestling is pretending to be something it's not. when you have a good match, it gets clowned on socials. then when it tries to be what it actually is, people clown it anyway. The internet has really damaged the reputation of pro-wrestling. I think it will take at least a decade for pro-wrestling to be acceptable again. I beg of you to go speak to your 8 year old nephew and show him a classic wrestling match and he'll tell you that shit is fake and gay.


Yes, I agree it will take time because a lot of damage was done. But in order for that to happen you have to STOP doing the goofy stuff first.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Yes, I agree it will take time because a lot of damage was done. But in order for that to happen you have to STOP doing the goofy stuff first.


Trust me; I am very much with you. But you're trying to argue that a pro-wrestling taunt is damaging to guys' characters. That's when you know that you have lost sight of what your argument actually is. OC has shown character progression and you're still out here whining like a little girl.

UFC has taken over the lane we want @Lheurch . It gives us the drama, storylines and real fighting. My 10 year old cousin can name every Conor match and is always talking about Khabib McGregor rematch; at least when I last saw him, lol.

To add onto this, OC is very much over with the kids. These are the guys who become long term fans.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> They had talent. They refused to use said talent. Omega twiddled his fucking thumbs. MJF and Page could have been sending in vignettes like they were ALL doing on BTE weekly.
> 
> They weren’t even TRYING during the pandemic.


MJF sent in 2 great promo packages, so I don't know why you keep harping about vignettes. Vignettes are not gonna do anything to make the show better. Besides, vignettes are proven to lose live viewers across all wrestling shows. Though, they would have been nice to see I do agree.

Outside of Nakazawa crap, Omega was used fine. He had a great Street fight and a great match with Sammy G. You want them to put him in a major program under those circumstances? Turn him heel with no fans? Put him in a title feud just so that they can put on "great pandemic TV"? I would have been pissed.

Stadium Stampede, the Dynamite Street Fight, Cody vs Archer wasn't trying? They tried harder than any other promotion, take what you can get. What we got was more than acceptable for pandemic TV. They don't owe you anything. I'm not expecting them to be perfect.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

and another thing - pro-wrestling nerds probably hated saturn and moppy, but as a kid i found it funny as fuck and it's a highlight for me from the attitude era.

You don't want the kids to have these sorts of memories?

or are you on the "fuck them kids" wave? in which case, wrestling will not last another 10 years.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> OC Jericho will be a good match. Jericho will make the man look like a million bucks; tbf he already does after his work with Jericho.


Jericho isn't making anybody look like a million bucks in-ring. I mean look at Page he didn't exactly come out looking like star after his match with Jericho.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Jericho isn't making anybody look like a million bucks in-ring. I mean look at Page he didn't exactly come out looking like star after his match with Jericho.


i disagree with your opinion. It made me a fan of Page; check my receipts; I made a thread [straight after the match] announcing Page's future as a megastar.


----------



## Swan-San

Jericho should just go fulltime commentary at this point with the occasional match. I can't take him as a threat with the way he presents himself and just as Jericho has never been the final boss in general, not exactly the same but it'd be like if Eddie Guerrero was still alive, was now old, slow, gained alot of weight and changed his style to this world beater feared MMA elbow finish wrestler while being mostly comedy at the same time.

Don't want to see him against Tyson, would be ridiculous, would rather see tyson versus a cage or hawk. 

J


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> i disagree with your opinion. It made me a fan of Page; check my receipts; I made a thread [straight after the match] announcing Page's future as a megastar.


Yet most folk felt he was missing something until he became a drunk


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Yet most folk felt he was missing something until he became a drunk


"most folk" you mean the minority that post on forums?


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> "most folk" you mean the minority that post on forums?


Are you really about to make the argument that people that discuss wrestling on forums, Twitter, and YouTube aren't the majority of the people that actually watched All Out seeing as AEW wasn't on TV yet? 

Are you really making an argument that following All Out an event only watched by the most hardcore of wrestling fans, that the majority thought Jericho made Hangman?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

like bruh, i genuinely feel bad for you guys that over critique and over-analyse. from "his taunt is too long" to "he wasn't a fan, others said so"

have you honestly forgotten what you enjoyed about pro-wrestling as a kid? do you look for what others think before you make your own opinion?

i mean mans actually out here telling me taunts are too long LMAO.

fuck me


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Are you really about to make the argument that people that discuss wrestling on forums, Twitter, and YouTube aren't the majority of the people that actually watched All Out seeing as AEW wasn't on TV yet?
> 
> Are you really making an argument that following All Out an event only watched by the most hardcore of wrestling fans, that the majority thought Jericho made Hangman?


so show me where you did a poll and found that the "majority" didn't see page as a star after jericho.

you can't. you have decided that he did not look like a star and you wish to use hyperbole to make your point.

i can say that he looked like a star and many agreed with me.


please rap, stop before you make yourself look like a disney character more than you currently do


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> so show me where you did a poll and found that the "majority" didn't see page as a star after jericho.
> 
> you can't. you have decided that he did not look like a star and you wish to use hyperbole to make your point.
> 
> i can say that he looked like a star and many agreed with me.
> 
> 
> please rap, stop before you make yourself look like a disney character more than you currently do


Nah you're just full of shit on this one, you know you're in the minority and are playing dumb lol. Page drinking is when he really started to click.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Nah you're just full of shit on this one, you know you're in the minority and are playing dumb lol. Page drinking is when he really started to click.


many did agree with me. check the thread, lol.

you have no proof and so you wish to make your own point. that's fine with me. at the end of the day, Jericho makes his opponents look like a million bucks.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> many did agree with me. check the thread, lol.
> 
> you have no proof and so you wish to make your own point. that's fine with me. at the end of the day, Jericho makes his opponents look like a million bucks.











Page = future mega babyface


After last night, I think AEW have got themselves a major babyface. I've watched that match twice and I think AEW and Jericho did a brilliant job of selling Page as an underdog babyface. Brilliant match; great storytelling. I hope they realise they've got their hands on something big. He...




www.wrestlingforum.com





That's the thread you made. It got 8 replies, and the clear consensus isn't "yeah Jericho made him" it's "yeah he has some potential down the line".


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> like bruh, i genuinely feel bad for you guys that over critique and over-analyse. from "his taunt is too long" to "he wasn't a fan, others said so"
> 
> have you honestly forgotten what you enjoyed about pro-wrestling as a kid? do you look for what others think before you make your own opinion?
> 
> i mean mans actually out here telling me taunts are too long LMAO.
> 
> fuck me


It is too long. How long would it take an adult human to do something about Stone Cold sticking his middle finger in their face? If he did it for ten continuous seconds with the other guy just standing there and taking it, how dumb would that look? This is what you are defending. Please stop defending the obvious dumb.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Page = future mega babyface
> 
> 
> After last night, I think AEW have got themselves a major babyface. I've watched that match twice and I think AEW and Jericho did a brilliant job of selling Page as an underdog babyface. Brilliant match; great storytelling. I hope they realise they've got their hands on something big. He...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thread you made. It got 8 replies, and the clear consensus isn't "yeah Jericho made him" it's "yeah he has some potential down the line".


Who’s talking about Jericho making him? I said he looked like a star during Jerichos match. That’s an opinion. As you can see, people did agree with me. 

what is wrong with you mate


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> It is too long. How long would it take an adult human to do something about Stone Cold sticking his middle finger in their face? If he did it for ten continuous seconds with the other guy just standing there and taking it, how dumb would that look? This is what you are defending. Please stop defending the obvious dumb.


There is a lot of things happening during the matches that i found way more dumb than this


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> It is too long. How long would it take an adult human to do something about Stone Cold sticking his middle finger in their face? If he did it for ten continuous seconds with the other guy just standing there and taking it, how dumb would that look? This is what you are defending. Please stop defending the obvious dumb.


I am truly sorry for you bro. You’ve lost your way. “Three second taunts are too long” think about what point you’re trying to make.
Seriously bro. Think about it. Step back for a second; I know you said corona lockdown got you bored, but surely not this bored.

“OCs taunt is too long” headass

herre a reminder; taunts are meant to get crowd reactions. OCs taunt does. It does the job.

re-remind yourself of what you enjoyed as a kid. You have forgotten 😢


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> There is a lot of things happening during the matches that i found way more dumb than this


So we should excuse dumb because there are dumber things too?


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> So we should excuse dumb because there are dumber things too?


I'm not saying this it's just that if you seriously pay attention then 95% of what happen in a wrestling show is dumb


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> I am truly sorry for you bro. You’ve lost your way. “Three second taunts are too long” think about what point you’re trying to make.
> Seriously bro. Think about it. Step back for a second; I know you said corona lockdown got you bored, but surely not this bored.
> 
> “OCs taunt is too long” headass


I literally said ten and you read it as three. If you think OC's goofy playkicking lasts three seconds I am questioning your ability to count at this point.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I'm not saying this it's just that if you seriously pay attention then 95% of what happen in a wrestling show is dumb


A lot can be, but I think if you get rid of the most obvious in your face surface level dumb, it helps hide some of the rest. Otherwise it becomes nonstop dumb.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Who’s talking about Jericho making him? I said he looked like a star during Jerichos match. That’s an opinion. As you can see, people did agree with me.
> 
> what is wrong with you mate





> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jericho isn't making anybody look like a million bucks in-ring. I mean look at Page he didn't exactly come out looking like star after his match with Jericho.
> 
> 
> 
> That's me replying to you saying Jericho was going to make Cassidy look like a million bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree with your opinion. It made me a fan of Page; check my receipts; I made a thread [straight after the match] announcing Page's future as a megastar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is you saying that Jericho still indeeds makes people look like stars.
Click to expand...





Please don't backpedal your argument. You can't say Jericho is making all these people look like stars, which naturally means they weren't stars before. Then turn around and say you're not saying Jericho made them.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> I literally said ten and you read it as three. If you think OC's goofy playkicking lasts three seconds I am questioning your ability to count at this point.


Still doesn’t change the fact that you’re now whining like a bitch about a taunt being too long.

I enjoyed the worm. I enjoyed the people’s elbow. I enjoyed all of these “long” taunts/signatures. OC kicks get the people going. Think really hard and properly about what you’re complaining about and tell me that AEW don’t have more pressing issues to talk about.

Meanwhile you’re here whining like a little girl about a long taunt.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Please don't backpedal your argument. You can't say Jericho is making all these people look like stars, which naturally means they weren't stars before. Then turn around and say you're not saying Jericho made them.


I didn’t know who Page was. His match with Jericho made me realise that he was a star.
What are you telling me that my opinion is wrong and that yours is right? You used hyperbole to make your point. I disagreed with that hyperbole with my point about many people agreeing with me.

will you feel like a man if I was to tell you that your opinion is right?


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> A lot can be, but I think if you get rid of the most obvious in your face surface level dumb, it helps hide some of the rest. Otherwise it becomes nonstop dumb.


The thing is what is the most obvious and annoying for me is probably not the same for you.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Still doesn’t change the fact that you’re now whining like a bitch about a taunt being too long.
> 
> I enjoyed the worm. I enjoyed the people’s elbow. I enjoyed all of these “long” taunts/signatures. OC kicks get the people going. Think really hard and properly about what you’re complaining about and tell me that AEW don’t have more pressing issues to talk about.
> 
> Meanwhile you’re here whining like a little girl about a long taunt.


I am calling dumb, dumb.

I also HATED the worm. But Scotty too Hotty was not in main event singles matches. I still have no problem calling it dumb. I also am not a huge fan of the people's elbow but at least it was a move done at the end of a match when a guy was down and mostly beaten.

Just come out and say you enjoy some of the dumbest stuff these guys do that makes no sense. But do not ever argue on here again that you want a product that makes sense.

Of course they have more pressing issues, but things like this all add up to what those larger issues are.

You are the one acting like a child here. I can understand five year olds liking the worm or the goofy stuff Cena did, but not anyone who is a teenager or older.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> The thing is what is the most obvious and annoying for me is probably not the same for you.


Fair enough, but there is likely some overlap.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> I didn’t know who Page was. His match with Jericho made me realise that he was a star.
> What are you telling me that my opinion is wrong and that yours is right? You used hyperbole to make your point. I disagreed with that hyperbole with my point about many people agreeing with me.
> 
> will you feel like a man if I was to tell you that your opinion is right?


I mean I know I'm right on this one I don't need you to agree, because it's clear you're alone on that one lol. 

And I didn't know Page before that and wanted him to win because fuck old Jericho. But unfortunately Jericho being old isn't in a position to give somebody that star making match. If Jericho was 10+ years younger I'd agree that OC was about to be made to look amazing and further justify why he's so liked. But I mean father time catches up to everybody, so it's not Jericho's fault.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

@RapShepard and


Lheurch said:


> I am calling dumb, dumb.
> 
> I also HATED the worm. But Scotty too Hotty was not in main event singles matches. I still have no problem calling it dumb. I also am not a huge fan of the people's elbow but at least it was a move done at the end of a match when a guy was down and mostly beaten.
> 
> Just come out and say you enjoy some of the dumbest stuff these guys do that makes no sense. But do not ever argue on here again that you want a product that makes sense.
> 
> Of course they have more pressing issues, but things like this all add up to what those larger issues are.
> 
> You are the one acting like a child here. I can understand five year olds liking the worm or the goofy stuff Cena did, but not anyone who is a teenager or older.


i was idk, 9-10 when it scotty2hotty was big? 5? Nah that’s just a bit silly.

I enjoyed that whole thing. OC gets the people going. It pisses off his opponent. It’s a good taunt. I’m not going to whine about it being too long. Seems like a bit overcritical to be honest. Wrestling is not a real product. The people’s elbow was too long. Why don’t people stop running after the Irish whip? When you start complaining about a taunt being too long, it opens a can of worms.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> Fair enough, but there is likely some overlap.


What i hate the most :

the wrestler moving on the mat to be in the perfect position for the guy on the third rope
When a wrestler bend over waiting for the other wrestler running the rope
Wrestlers putting their arm up when they receive a kick (yes i'm looking at you Alexa...) etc.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> I mean I know I'm right on this one I don't need you to agree, because it's clear you're alone on that one lol.
> 
> And I didn't know Page before that and wanted him to win because fuck old Jericho. But unfortunately Jericho being old isn't in a position to give somebody that star making match. If Jericho was 10+ years younger I'd agree that OC was about to be made to look amazing and further justify why he's so liked. But I mean father time catches up to everybody, so it's not Jericho's fault.


I saw you made an actual thread LMAFOROFOFOROL. Let me know when the majority of AEW viewers post in it. It doesn’t change what I said. Jericho makes his opponent looks like stars. This is something that many can agree with. I too, can make the thread, but then I’m being just as petty and as whiny as you. And I am not on that level.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> @RapShepard and
> 
> i was idk, 9-10 when it scotty2hotty was big? 5? Nah that’s just a bit silly.
> 
> I enjoyed that whole thing. OC gets the people going. It pisses off his opponent. It’s a good taunt. I’m not going to whine about it being too long. Seems like a bit overcritical to be honest. Wrestling is not a real product. The people’s elbow was too long. Why don’t people stop running after the Irish whip? When you start complaining about a taunt being too long, it opens a can of worms.


Like I said, you admitted you like goofy stuff. Fair enough.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> What i hate the most :
> 
> the wrestler moving on the mat to be in the perfect position for the guy on the third rope
> When a wrestler bend over waiting for the other wrestler running the rope
> Wrestlers putting their arm up when they receive a kick (yes i'm looking at you Alexa...) etc.


Yeah, I hate all of that too. Probably #1 for me is when multiple guys who are supposed to hate each other are standing outside the ring with their arms up waiting to catch a guy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Like I said, you admitted you like goofy stuff. Fair enough.


The Irish whip is goofy because a wrestler can just stop.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Any argument about Orange Cassidy can be won by tweets like this.... and the other thousands like it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270843530236305416
He’s getting them young, which is the lifeblood of this niche, dumb hobby


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, I hate all of that too. Probably #1 for me is when multiple guys who are supposed to hate each other are standing outside the ring with their arms up waiting to catch a guy.


But these are all wrestling rules and law. They are trying to protect their colleague. Now you’re going to tell me you don’t want wrestlers to protect each other?


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> @RapShepard and
> 
> i was idk, 9-10 when it scotty2hotty was big? 5? Nah that’s just a bit silly.
> 
> I enjoyed that whole thing. OC gets the people going. It pisses off his opponent. It’s a good taunt. I’m not going to whine about it being too long. Seems like a bit overcritical to be honest. Wrestling is not a real product. The people’s elbow was too long. Why don’t people stop running after the Irish whip? When you start complaining about a taunt being too long, it opens a can of worms.


Too Cool was the shit, I'll back you on this one lol. The entire audience was changing "W O R M WORM" when he did that and when they'd dance. Wrestling fans have never had trouble getting into goofy shit as long as the performer was charismatic enough. It's no different than how much folk were into The Rock vs Hurricane (which was a mini feud on the way to him facing Austin a 3rd time at Mania). 

OC just has it as a comedy character. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but it works for their audience. As long as he's not submitting Moxley in under 30 seconds, and beating Cage and Archer 2 on 1 he'll be okay lol.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, I hate all of that too. Probably #1 for me is when multiple guys who are supposed to hate each other are standing outside the ring with their arms up waiting to catch a guy.


Yes but when they don't do that the guy jumping end up injured so......i think i will take the wrestlers waiting for it XD


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> The Irish whip is goofy because a wrestler can just stop.


Or maybe they can see continuing on, hitting the ropes, and gaining speed as something to help give them an advantage? Stopping takes effort and your opponent is right behind you and should be ready to attack you. At least you can see another side to that argument. No one could take OC's entire playkick set and come off looking anything other than a complete idiot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> OC just has it as a comedy character. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but it works for their audience. *As long as he's not submitting Moxley in under 30 seconds, and beating Cage* and Archer 2 on 1 he'll be okay lol.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Any argument about Orange Cassidy can be won by tweets like this.... and the other thousands like it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270843530236305416
> He’s getting them young, which is the lifeblood of this niche, dumb hobby


That was the Cena argument too. How many fans are watching today vs when he started?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> "most folk" you mean the minority that post on forums?


:"Most folk" as in most of the credible internet world, the people who tuned out initially and even the people who have tuned out since. Stop acting like everyone's opinion who doesn't match your own is in some sort of minority because they aren't in your echo chamber. Not without data. 552,000 viewers. 

Jericho can't make someone look like a star if no one is watching him. He's been one of the biggest attractions AEW has had from the start. If you want to take ratings literally, he was in all those unbeaten segments. Now he got fucking OWNED by a three-way over a mid-card title between three guys he should be beating. This. Doesn't. Work. It's not as "subjective" as people say. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't. Some stuff will draw, some stuff won't. You don't cast Jonah Hill to be the bad-ass and Tom Cruise to be the IT geek in the same movie. This isn't fucking hard -- rules and common sense actually makes things EASIER. Now you've got a bunch of people throwing their hands up, including people like Bryan Alvarez, completely baffled as to what AEW should do next, because there's no clear path because what the fuck is a path, right? 

The modern fans who clap like trained seals for anything that isn't Vince, and the people who claim to be "positive" are feeding the egos of the executives at AEW false feedback. They think what they are doing is great. They call it a buffet. Jericho says this is what wrestling is _supposed_ to look like in 2020. They should know better, and ultimately they are to blame for where they find themselves, but modern fans are doing so much damage to wrestling and don't even realise it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Or maybe they can see continuing on, hitting the ropes, and gaining speed as something to help give them an advantage? Stopping takes effort and your opponent is right behind you and should be ready to attack you. At least you can see another side to that argument. No one could take OC's entire playkick set and come off looking anything other than a complete idiot.


in your opinion, but when he does it, the other wrestler is like “wtf are you doing” demolishes him and moves on. It’s completely fine and your nitpick is becoming a bit too whiny for me; I’m watching Netflix now, so I’ll agree to disagree with you.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Yes but when they don't do that the guy jumping end up injured so......i think i will take the wrestlers waiting for it XD


But there is a way to do it without making it look dumb. Talented guys can pull it off. The problem is way too many people feel the need to do every crazy move, and most are not good enough to do it well.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> They had Omega there for weeks when everyone was being quarantined, and they didn’t use him effectively. Just like they have a ton of other great singles guys they’re not using effectively. I mean, Moxley has had all of about 5 minutes television time since the Hager match. He’s your goddamn World Heavyweight Champion. Why is he not on television!?
> 
> Because there names aren’t Jericho and Cody Rhodes.


This is probably about the 15th time you've quoted me with stuff like this, as if I give a shit?


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> OC just has it as a comedy character. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but it works for their audience. As long as he's not submitting Moxley in under 30 seconds, and beating Cage and Archer 2 on 1 he'll be okay lol.


I keep feeling the need to plant flags on all these "at long as he is not doing X or Y" comments done can revisit them in a few months.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> But there is a way to do it without making it look dumb. Talented guys can pull it off. The problem is way too many people feel the need to do every crazy move, and most are not good enough to do it well.


The best way is to let them wait for it but just make it like they didn't see it coming with the camera angle


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> I saw you made an actual thread LMAFOROFOFOROL. Let me know when the majority of AEW viewers post in it. It doesn’t change what I said. Jericho makes his opponent looks like stars. This is something that many can agree with. I too, can make the thread, but then I’m being just as petty and as whiny as you. And I am not on that level.


You're not making it because you know that my side is what got him over, especially when you consider the vast majority of Dynamite watchers didn't see the Jericho match. So there's no way for you to really play this "we don't know" game. 

The viewership on yours doesn't even compare to make your side reasonable.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> I keep feeling the need to plant flags on all these "at long as he is not doing X or Y" comments done can revisit them in a few months.


Orange vs Moxley in a ladder match for a bag of orange. Book it


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> in your opinion, but when he does it, the other wrestler is like “wtf are you doing” demolishes him and moves on. It’s completely fine and your nitpick is becoming a bit too whiny for me; I’m watching Netflix now, so I’ll agree to disagree with you.


Because every Irish Whip ends up the same way??


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> You're not making it because you know that my side is what got him over, especially when you consider the vast majority of Dynamite watchers didn't see the Jericho match. So there's no way for you to really play this "we don't know" game.
> 
> The viewership on yours doesn't even compare to make your side reasonable.


Check Reddit about this. Your petty thread asked if it cemented him as a star. My argument was that he looked like a million bucks. Your thread is automatically invalid. 

but anyway take the Internet brownie boobies.We are all here talking about shit that’s not important; I’m not autistic but this place makes me feel like I am.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass, I can't find your initial post, but holy fuck, there it is again: "This niche, dumb hobby." Can't people actually talk about wrestling like they _like_ it? Wait, they don't. It's a masochistic club cultivating by Vince McMahon and his constant pissing all over fans. Now they will accept shit and call it chocolate, and assume that you're supposed to have worms, caterpillars, clowns and roosters, and use them as a measuring stick of excellence just because of -- not even nostalgia -- but conditioning. 

Wrestling _can_ be good, folks. It can be enjoyed outside irony and be taken legitimately seriously as something resembling a sport, art form or entertainment, depending on how you _subjectively_ want to look at it (there's a proper use of subjectivity in wrestling). When shit hits the fan and the comedy stops working, you don't need to throw your hands up and say "Oh well, wrestling is shitty shit for shits anyway." Fucking grow some gumption and ask for it to not insult your intelligence like it's the norm. It wasn't always the norm and it doesn't have to be. 

That's what wanting an alternative to WWE should be.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Orange vs Moxley in a ladder match for a bag of orange. Book it


Might as well have a shark jump over the cage at the end heh.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Check Reddit about this. Your petty thread asked if it cemented him as a star. My argument was that he looked like a million bucks. Your thread is automatically invalid.
> 
> but anyway take the Internet brownie boobies.We are all here talking about shit that’s not important; I’m not autistic but this place makes me feel like I am.


I noticed in this thread you've dipped into insulting people's sex lives and now you're trying to use atypical cognition as a way of trying to shame people. Dude, you're not a shitty person -- don't let your avatar become that. 

Reddit is an echo chamber. Look at the ratings. 552,000 viewers. That's all you need to see.


----------



## The Wood

Lheurch said:


> Might as well have a shark jump over the cage at the end heh.


They'll book themselves under so hard they'll be below sea level anyway.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> I keep feeling the need to plant flags on all these "at long as he is not doing X or Y" comments done can revisit them in a few months.


I mean these comments makes sense as it sets parameters for what is and isn't okay or logical. I'm not looking forward to this as I'm no longer in to Jericho. But while I do get your general point of "why is this main eventer dealing with this low carder". These type of mini-feuds aren't unheard of. So as long as it's wrapped up at FyterFest it's no harm no foul.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Because every Irish Whip ends up the same way??


most do, no?
How many times has he done the kick taunt? Barely. But again, keep whining about taunts being too long.
I have fond memories of everything from Austin to RTC to Rikishis stink ass. that’s what made me a wrestling fan. You should remember what made you a fan as a kid. OC is making future fans. Good on him. He is healthy for pro wrestling’s future.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> I mean these comments makes sense as it sets parameters for what is and isn't okay or logical. I'm not looking forward to this as I'm no longer in to Jericho. But while I do get your general point of "why is this main eventer dealing with this low carder". These type of mini-feuds aren't unheard of. So as long as it's wrapped up at FyterFest it's no harm no foul.


Yeah, and I hope you and the others who think he will just go back to being his midcard goofy act are right. But I worry they will keep trying to push the goofy stuff in the upper card. But a lot of the arguments are going to change from "he is just a midcard act for kids, stop knocking him" to "AEW is brilliant for making this guy the champ" and not realize their logical inconsistency.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Check Reddit about this. Your petty thread asked if it cemented him as a star. My argument was that he looked like a million bucks. Your thread is automatically invalid.
> 
> but anyway take the Internet brownie boobies.We are all here talking about shit that’s not important; I’m not autistic but this place makes me feel like I am.


What the fuck do you think "looked like a million bucks" means in the context of entertainment? You're just upset because you're clearly wrong. It's very well acknowledged that this drinking character who may or may not turn on The Elite is what actually made him click. You talking all this "well it's not important" is just you backpedaling on your terrible argument.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, and I hope you and the others who think he will just go back to being his midcard goofy act are right. But I worry they will keep trying to push thr goofy stuff in the upper card. But a lot of the arguments are going to change from "he is just a midcard act for kids, stop knocking him" to "AEW is brilliant for making this guy the champ" and not realize their logical inconsistency.


I mean if you want less goofy idk. I think as long as Jericho and Hardy are in highlighted upper midcard roles with free reign you're going to be getting a lot of comedy. I don't think OC will be the one doing it.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> most do, no?
> How many times has he done the kick taunt? Barely. But again, keep whining about taunts being too long.
> I have fond memories of everything from Austin to RTC to Rikishis stink ass. that’s what made me a wrestling fan. You should remember what made you a fan as a kid. OC is making future fans. Good on him. He is healthy for pro wrestling’s future.


Again, how many of those supposed fans Cena created are around today? A lot less than when he started. That is not an arguable point. So no, he is not healthy for the business. The ratings showed us that this week.

What made me a wrestling fan was not the dumb goofy stuff. If the first time I tuned in was to see a giant Somoan put his ass in someone's face or a guy play kicking an adult for 10-15 seconds with no reaction, I would have never watched again.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> What the fuck do you think "looked like a million bucks" means in the context of entertainment? You're just upset because you're clearly wrong. It's very well acknowledged that this drinking character who may or may not turn on The Elite is what actually made him click. You talking all this "well it's not important" is just you backpedaling on your terrible argument.


Do you think I’m upset about an Internet a argument? He looked like a million bucks against Jericho. I disagreed with you; I have said that your thread is invalid. I’m not going to continue arguing about this. Take your boobies goofy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Again, how many of those supposed fans Cena created are around today? A lot less than when he started. That is not an arguable point. So no, he is not healthy for the business. The ratings showed us that this week.
> 
> What made me a wrestling fan was not the dumb goofy stuff. If the first time I tuned in was to see a giant Somoan put his ass in someone's face or a guy play kicking an adult for 10-15 seconds with no reaction, I would have never watched again.


So we are part of different generations. I’m an attitude era kid. Idk what you are but we’ve atleast got to the crux of it


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> I mean if you want less goofy idk. I think as long as Jericho and Hardy are in highlighted upper midcard roles with free reign you're going to be getting a lot of comedy. I don't think OC will be the one doing it.


I am not anti-comedy, I am anti-dumb. The Rock is my favorite of all time so there is a way to do comedy without it being dumb and goofy. Marvel has pulled it off, so can wrestling.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> So we are part of different generations. I’m an attitude era kid. Idk what you are but we’ve atleast got to the crux of it


I am an attitude era kid too. I just never liked insulting to anyone with a functioning brain stuff, even at 12.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Do you think I’m upset about an Internet a argument? He looked like a million bucks against Jericho. I disagreed with you; I have said that your thread is invalid. I’m not going to continue arguing about this. Take your boobies goofy.


You are definitely upset which is why you're trying to be insulting lol. You tried to be snarky then got proven wrong and now you're backpedaling. But yes you should stop arguing a point you're clearly wrong about.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> I am an attitude era kid too. I just never liked insulting to anyone with a functioning brain stuff, even at 12.


And btw how can you compare Cena to OC. I mean that’s absolutely a ridiculous comparison. Cena was overpushed; once he left, the fans left. There was no reason to stay on because WWE didn’t bother making other stars. It’s a very different situation. If OC is pushed like that, then yes I would agree. But if OC plays a decent minor role that gives the kids memories, while there are reason to continue watching, the same thing wouldn’t happe.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> You are definitely upset which is why you're trying to be insulting lol. You tried to be snarky then got proven wrong and now you're backpedaling. But yes you should stop arguing a point you're clearly wrong about.


Trust me bro, I’m not upset. I gave you your internet points and I still am saying that Jericho makes his opponents look like a million bucks. OC has looked like a million bucks so far. Your poll is also invalid. But you can now cry and whine about it all you want. Something is wrong with you.


----------



## Erik.

The same people arguing over the smallest shit in wrestling over and over again. 

Why do you do it to yourselves? It's wrestling man.


----------



## Rozzop

He is play kicking his opponent in the shins for 20 seconds whilst the opponent is stood there like an idiot.

This belongs in backyard wrestling just like the guy who jumps off a roof through a table in front of 5 fans in attendence.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> And btw how can you compare Cena to OC. I mean that’s absolutely a ridiculous comparison. Cena was overpushed; once he left, the fans left. There was no reason to stay on because WWE didn’t bother making other stars. It’s a very different situation. If OC is pushed like that, then yes I would agree. But if OC plays a decent minor role that gives the kids memories, while there are reason to continue watching, the same thing wouldn’t happe.


I am comparing a goof to a goof. One got shoved down everyone's throat for over a decade and fans left by the millions DURING his reign on top. They did not bother to make anyone during that time either so the slide continued afterwards.

And again, having a match with your top star is not some minor role.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> I am comparing a goof to a goof. One got shoved down everyone's throat for over a decade and fans left by the millions DURING his reign on top. They did not bother to make anyone during that time either so the slide continued afterwards.
> 
> And again, having a match with your top star is not some minor role.


its a minor role compared to Cena overdominating the good part of a decade for sure.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> The same people arguing over the smallest shit in wrestling over and over again.
> 
> Why do you do it to yourselves? It's wrestling man.


Here comes the "wrestling is supposed to be dumb" thing yet again.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> its a minor role compared to Cena overdominating the good part of a decade for sure.


Yes, true enough.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> I am not anti-comedy, I am anti-dumb. The Rock is my favorite of all time so there is a way to do comedy without it being dumb and goofy. Marvel has pulled it off, so can wrestling.


For me I think it's just a coin flip. Like comedy is a big part of The Elite brand given that stuff like Being The Elite is what helped them get their cult following that allowed AEW to exist, but I hate that comedy. But on the flip not like I can judge much as I enjoy OC and like Nakazawa as a weirdo undercard guy.

With Jericho he can be funny like the mocking Cody promo, but then other times it's flat like the celebration and pep rally. 

Matt is just idk. I enjoyed Broken Matt in Impact. But idk since going to WWE most of the time it feels like he's trying to capture lightening in a bottle again and it's not working.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Here comes the "wrestling is supposed to be dumb" thing yet again.


Yeah, exactly what I said. 

You lot are getting so worked up trying one up eachother over the stupidest stuff. 

Just enjoy whatever the fuck you enjoy.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Trust me bro, I’m not upset. I gave you your internet points and I still am saying that Jericho makes his opponents look like a million bucks. OC has looked like a million bucks so far. Your poll is also invalid. But you can now cry and whine about it all you want. Something is wrong with you.


Aren't you supposed to be done Mr. Jericho makes people look like a million bucks lol.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> For me I think it's just a coin flip. Like comedy is a big part of The Elite brand given that stuff like Being The Elite is what helped them get their cult following that allowed AEW to exist, but I hate that comedy. But on the flip not like I can judge much as I enjoy OC and like Nakazawa as a weirdo undercard guy.
> 
> With Jericho he can be funny like the mocking Cody promo, but then other times it's flat like the celebration and pep rally.
> 
> Matt is just idk. I enjoyed Broken Matt in Impact. But idk since going to WWE most of the time it feels like he's trying to capture lightening in a bottle again and it's not working.


Nakazawa is an immediate channel changer for me.

I like 85-90% of Jericho and I have been a fan since around 96. The Man of 1004 holds stuff was great. Most of what Jericho has done for 25 years has been good comedy.

Like I said many times, I was excited for Matt coming to AEW until he started teleporting. I was even somewhat OK with having different personalities because he could have just been hit in the head too many times/finally snapped. But magically changing clothes made me hate his existence instantly.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> Nakazawa is an immediate channel changer for me.
> 
> I like 85-90% of Jericho and I have been a fan since around 96. The Man of 1004 holds stuff was great. Most of what Jericho has done for 25 years has been good comedy.
> 
> Like I said many times, I was excited for Matt coming to AEW until he started teleporting. I was even somewhat OK with having different personalities because he could have just been hit in the head too many times/finally snapped. But magically changing clothes made me hate his existence instantly.


For me Nakazawa works because nobody pretends he isn't bizarre. If we were talking sitcoms be reminds me of the weird foreigner stereotype. Plus something like the oil spill senton is just genius character work. 

Jericho I'm just tired because I've seen him too much and I can't stand he's overacting when he's naturally funny. 

Matt idk I've always been hot and cold on Matt. For me I've always felt like he tries to overcompensate because he probably doesn't like being in Jeff's shadow. It's like he knows he can't be naturally cool like Jeff so he goes all out on being zany. But it feels like he's a bad class clown vs a good one.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Yeah, exactly what I said.
> 
> You lot are getting so worked up trying one up eachother over the stupidest stuff.
> 
> Just enjoy whatever the fuck you enjoy.


I am never going to be happy with mediocrity. That attitude is exactly why WWE and the state of the business is where it is today.

How dare people be passionate about things they enjoy!


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> I am never going to be happy with mediocrity. That attitude is exactly why WWE and the state of the business is where it is today.
> 
> How dare people be passionate about things they enjoy!


I'm not happy with mediocrity, so I don't watch mediocrity. Simple as that.

Its relatively easy. 

I'm passionate about art. You know what I do when I see art I don't like? Move on to the art I do like. 

If you get your enjoyment from arguing with people over something you don't like then more power to you. Soldier on.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> I'm not happy with mediocrity, so I don't watch mediocrity. Simple as that.
> 
> Its relatively easy.
> 
> I'm passionate about art. You know what I do when I see art I don't like? Move on to the art I do like.
> 
> If you get your enjoyment from arguing with people over something you don't like then more power to you. Soldier on.


You are arguing with me on why I am dumb to argue.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> You are arguing with me on why I am dumb to argue.


No, we're having a discussion. Not an argument.

You're aware of the difference?


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> No, we're having a discussion. Not an argument.
> 
> You're aware of the difference?


Yes, it is what an internet forum is for. Discussing, debating, and when you amazingly find yourself disagreeing with someone, arguing.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Yes, it is what an internet forum is for. Discussing, debating, and when you amazingly find yourself disagreeing with someone, arguing.


There shouldn't be any need to get into an argument over what someone likes against what you like. 

Disagreeing with someone doesn't equal an argument. 

Like I said, if you're willing to watch and discuss something you find mediocre, more power to you, go for it. 

You quoted me and started this conversation, remember?


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> There shouldn't be any need to get into an argument over what someone likes against what you like.
> 
> Disagreeing with someone doesn't equal an argument.
> 
> Like I said, if you're willing to watch and discuss something you find mediocre, more power to you, go for it.
> 
> You quoted me and started this conversation, remember?


Because there are always condescending people who come on here and find it amazing people actually want a good product. Wanting something that has the potential to be great and less mediocre. I know, it is a novel concept.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> Because there are always condescending people who come on here and find it amazing people actually want a good product. Wanting something that has the potential to be great and less mediocre. I know, it is a novel concept.


I think there are people on here who enjoy the majority of what they see, which some people can't get their head around.

I don't venture into the WWE section, are there constant arguments over there too? I mean, there's much greater potential in WWE being more great and less mediocre as they have the pull, the brand name, the history and the talent.

Personally, I don't watch WWE as I don't particularly enjoy it. If someone suggests a match or something I'll give that a watch but that's about it. Whereas I tend to enjoy more aspects of AEW.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> I think there are people on here who enjoy the majority of what they see, which some people can't get their head around.
> 
> I don't venture into the WWE section, are there constant arguments over there too? I mean, there's much greater potential in WWE being more great and less mediocre as they have the pull, the brand name, the history and the talent.
> 
> Personally, I don't watch WWE as I don't particularly enjoy it. If someone suggests a match or something I'll give that a watch but that's about it. Whereas I tend to enjoy more aspects of AEW.


There are plenty of debates and arguments. I mean, this is the internet.

WWE has greater potential perhaps, but I think we all know as long as Vince is in charge it is going to stay mostly mediocre with some characters and matches still entertaining. That is one reason so many of us want AEW to succeed. It will force Vince to change and that will raise all boats.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> There are plenty of debates and arguments. I mean, this is the internet.
> 
> WWE has greater potential perhaps, but I think we all know as long as Vince is in charge it is going to stay mostly mediocre with some characters and matches still entertaining. That is one reason so many of us want AEW to succeed. It will force Vince to change and that will raise all boats.


Fair enough. 

I don't think wrestling is in a position to succeed the way people would want it to. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I don't think wrestling is in a position to succeed the way people would want it to. But that's just my opinion.


It definitely is not in that position now, but it could be. That is the potential many of us see. For me I see this is like 1995 and one big spark could change things rapidly.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> It definitely is not in that position now, but it could be. That is the potential many of us see. For me I see this is like 1995 and one big spark could change things rapidly.


Fair enough. 

I think wrestling and societies opinion on wrestling were alot different in 1995 than they are in 2020 personally which is a big factor for me. 

And if anything, the popularity and opinion of wrestling is only going to continue to decrease over the coming years.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I think wrestling and societies opinion on wrestling were alot different in 1995 than they are in 2020 personally which is a big factor for me.
> 
> And if anything, the popularity and opinion of wrestling is only going to continue to decrease over the coming years.


I mean, it might decrease. It has been on that trajectory for a long time. I hope AEW is able to help turn it around but it will not turn it around by doing goofy WWE lite stuff.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> I mean, it might decrease. It has been on that trajectory for a long time. I hope AEW is able to help turn it around but it will not turn it around by doing goofy WWE lite stuff.


I don't think AEW can turn it around until WWE do. 

90% of the population know nothing about wrestling and the majority who do only know wrestling as WWE. 

There is a stigma around wrestling. Especially in 2020 that wasn't there in 1995. 

In 1995, you at least had things that were somewhat fresh or could be fresh and a business FULL of household names. 

In 2020, you have an industry that's been on the decline, dragged through the dirt, been unpopular for near on 20 years and zero household names. 

I think we'd all love wrestling to be somewhat as cool as it once was. In my opinion, it'll never get there again.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Well after the blowout against NXT it is clear to me that something is not working. 

They have five times the talent that NXT has, they have Cody, Jericho, Mox, FTR, and on and on. But still got beat. Reminds me of when TNA had all these big stars yet all they managed was 1.3 at the most. At that point you to look at yourself in the mirror and realise that things have to get better and figure out what that is that's not working. I think they should streamline things a bit to focus on what is the storyline to watc. I think it's Paul Heyman who had the idea to basically every show focus on the three big storylines and the rest was fillers. Maybe that's the thing to do. Even if they had DX, the main focus of late 90s WWF was Austin vs Vince while WCW had many stars and many feuds and part of the reasons why WWF won was this, that it was easier for the fans to focus on this one epic storyline with a small number of people. Part of the reason I think TNA got better in 2012 was that the whole thing was about Heel Champ Bobby Roode. The whole show was about one guy and it was compelling as Hell. Evey week you wondered what he would do next and what would be his next challenger.

Maybe AEW could do this, identify three guys maybe MJF, Adam Page and Derby Allin. Decide that these are the three that will take you to the promised land and feed the whole roster to these guys. Have Page and Omega lose the titles, Omega turn on Page and the whole Elite jump on Page, beat him up, bring the heat. This is the war between him and these guys to position him as top babyface. And a few times he could have other babies help him out. Have Derby cost Cage the title against Mox, then you have a sort of feud between cause Cage is good against smaller guys. But Cage gets frustrated on their first bout after a lucky move by Derby. And then it can become a Vader-Sting thing where they exchange wins. I could see MJF beating Cody for the TNT title, that would be enough to create heat so that he becomes close to be the company's top heel. He pisses people off every week by retaining the TNT title by nefarious means. 

Make sure that whole company understand that these are the three guys, tell it to the announcers, make sure the other wrestlers understand it, same as the writers and so forth, all the shows are about them. Give them the best promos, the best angles, make them look good(not in a WWE way lol). Give Page a sit down interview in a similar manner as the WWF gave to HHH that turned him into "the Game" positioning him as the next top guy. Have him say he was the reject of the Elite, the others never taking him seriously, etc...


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> I don't think AEW can turn it around until WWE do.
> 
> 90% of the population know nothing about wrestling and the majority who do only know wrestling as WWE.
> 
> There is a stigma around wrestling. Especially in 2020 that wasn't there in 1995.
> 
> In 1995, you at least had things that were somewhat fresh or could be fresh and a business FULL of household names.
> 
> In 2020, you have an industry that's been on the decline, dragged through the dirt, been unpopular for near on 20 years and zero household names.
> 
> I think we'd all love wrestling to be somewhat as cool as it once was. In my opinion, it'll never get there again.


I agree it is going to take WWE changing to truly impact things, and WWE is not going to change until forced to. Just like it took WCW to get Vince to change in 1996. That is why I view it as comparable to 1995 now. Of course a lot of the specifics are different, but many general things are similar.

The WWF was able to get mainstream attention with a bunch of unknowns. I would argue none of the talent they had in 1996/1997 were household names. If that was the deciding factor, WCW would have pulled ahead and easily won.

I am not trying to trivialize anything, I know it will take a ton of work over a sustained amount of time. That is why things like OC and Marko annoy me so much. It is two steps forward, three back sometimes with AEW. I think most of us want a true alternative to WWE (and ultimately to force WWE to change) and having a child fighting men or a goof play kicking is EXACTLY what I would expect Vince to do (See Swoggle, Horn and Marella, Santino). If people want to see goofs gyrating and tossing pancakes around, Smackdown is there for you every Friday night. Why have an alternative if you are just going to do the same silly stuff?

A lot of people thought Batman was dead after the goofy comedy of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. It took a long time, but it ultimately took someone taking the character seriously again and made him bigger than he ever was. People still post dumb memes from Spider-Man 3 making fun of it, but did that stop Marvel from bringing him back in a serious way but including good comedy? Of course not. Comic book movies were "for kids" and had a massive stigma for a long time. It IS possible to have a serious product and include intelligent comedy that does not treat you like an idiot, and also entertain all ages. Kids love the Marvel movies too and they did not have to include Howard the Duck (OK he had a small cameo but still) or a magical unicorn to do it.


----------



## Cult03

You know what's funny, apart from AEW super fans saying "it's fake" to justify a lot of the crap this company does, of course.

NXT puts on a good card and everyone blows up saying "They're putting on a Takeover card to try beat AEW" but when AEW puts on a literal two day PPV card everyone is silent. The double standards are impressive.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> I agree it is going to take WWE changing to truly impact things, and WWE is not going to change until forced to. Just like it took WCW to get Vince to change in 1996. That is why I view it as comparable to 1995 now. Of course a lot of the specifics are different, but many general things are similar.
> 
> The WWF was able to get mainstream attention with a bunch of unknowns. I would argue none of the talent they had in 1996/1997 were household names. If that was the deciding factor, WCW would have pulled ahead and easily won.
> 
> I am not trying to trivialize anything, I know it will take a ton of work over a sustained amount of time. That is why things like OC and Marko annoy me so much. It is two steps forward, three back sometimes with AEW. I think most of us want a true alternative to WWE (and ultimately to force WWE to change) and having a child fighting men or a goof play kicking is EXACTLY what I would expect Vince to do (See Swoggle, Horn and Marella, Santino). If people want to see goofs gyrating and tossing pancakes around, Smackdown is there for you every Friday night. Why have an alternative if you are just going to do the same silly stuff?
> 
> A lot of people thought Batman was dead after the goofy comedy of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. It took a long time, but it ultimately took someone taking the character seriously again and made him bigger than he ever was. People still post dumb memes from Spider-Man 3 making fun of it, but did that stop Marvel from bringing him back in a serious way but including good comedy? Of course not. Comic book movies were "for kids" and had a massive stigma for a long time. It IS possible to have a serious product and include intelligent comedy that does not treat you like an idiot, and also entertain all ages. Kids love the Marvel movies too and they did not have to include Howard the Duck (OK he had a small cameo but still) or a magical unicorn to do it.


Wrestling got mainstream, not just WWF - so the unknowns weren't a factor, wrestling becoming the "in-thing" and the fad blowing up allowed them become the stars they became.

Wrestling had plenty of hosuehold names in 1997/1997 and certainly in 1995.

Who in wrestling now is even half as known? John Cena and he isn't even in the WWE anymore let alone ever going to do a Hogan and join whatever promotion gives him the most money. And again, with Cena it's scorched earth, just like wrestling is. Even then, I'd argue that 90% of people who knew what wrestling was in 1995 had heard of Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan etc. whereas 90% of people aware of wrestling today probably don't know who John Cena is.

I admire your belief that wrestling can become popular again and that for the time being you'll see this as a 1995 moment - but for me, nah. There's no stars in 2020 like there were in 1995. There's nothing fresh or different that can be done that was a true game changer like there was in 1995 (Going live, bring in a different style of wrestling that hadn't been seen before).

I'll never understand comparing a live form of entertainment to films and TV shows - but I like that you think that way and you have high hopes for wrestling.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> LifeInCattleClass, I can't find your initial post, but holy fuck, there it is again: "This niche, dumb hobby." Can't people actually talk about wrestling like they _like_ it? Wait, they don't. It's a masochistic club cultivating by Vince McMahon and his constant pissing all over fans. Now they will accept shit and call it chocolate, and assume that you're supposed to have worms, caterpillars, clowns and roosters, and use them as a measuring stick of excellence just because of -- not even nostalgia -- but conditioning.
> 
> Wrestling _can_ be good, folks. It can be enjoyed outside irony and be taken legitimately seriously as something resembling a sport, art form or entertainment, depending on how you _subjectively_ want to look at it (there's a proper use of subjectivity in wrestling). When shit hits the fan and the comedy stops working, you don't need to throw your hands up and say "Oh well, wrestling is shitty shit for shits anyway." Fucking grow some gumption and ask for it to not insult your intelligence like it's the norm. It wasn't always the norm and it doesn't have to be.
> 
> That's what wanting an alternative to WWE should be.


I didn’t quite understand your point when you first made it months ago, but damned if it doesn’t ring true.

It seems like wrestling “fans” tuned into watch the end of the greatness that was the late 90s era in wrestling. A bunch of geeks who joined the wrestling audience when it was still cool to do, everyone and their mothers were watching wrestling.

These “geeks” stayed and watched the cool kids leave, begin to mock them for enjoying wrestling, etc. They were mocked so much that they now passive aggressively HOPE for dumb shit in wrestling to occur, so that they can laugh and pretend they don’t enjoy the serious stuff.

Because the undeniable truth is that they LOVE the serious shit. Jungle Boy vs MJF was the talk of DoN2. Every single one of them RAVED about the very serious, very “real” feeling Omega/Page vs the Bucks match. Cody and Dustin. Omega and Pac. Etc.

They love the serious. 


optikk sucks said:


> And btw how can you compare Cena to OC. I mean that’s absolutely a ridiculous comparison. Cena was overpushed; once he left, the fans left. There was no reason to stay on because WWE didn’t bother making other stars. It’s a very different situation. *If OC is pushed like that, then yes I would agree*. But if OC plays a decent minor role that gives the kids memories, while there are reason to continue watching, the same thing wouldn’t happe.


Bro, watch what you say, because I legit was enjoying the Pac vs Orange Cassidy match and was hoping they’d expound on it. I didn’t see any harm with Cassidy being in that spot, because “it isn’t like he’s main eventing”.

And here we are: Cassidy working an angle with Chris fucking Jericho, a week after he bragged about winning his demo. His star power is waning and just took an ass-kicking by 300k viewers choosing the more serious program over the comedy main event.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Wrestling got mainstream, not just WWF - so the unknowns weren't a factor, wrestling becoming the "in-thing" and the fad blowing up allowed them become the stars they became.
> 
> Wrestling had plenty of hosuehold names in 1997/1997 and certainly in 1995.
> 
> Who in wrestling now is even half as known? John Cena and he isn't even in the WWE anymore let alone ever going to do a Hogan and join whatever promotion gives him the most money. And again, with Cena it's scorched earth, just like wrestling is. Even then, I'd argue that 90% of people who knew what wrestling was in 1995 had heard of Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan etc. whereas 90% of people aware of wrestling today probably don't know who John Cena is.
> 
> I admire your belief that wrestling can become popular again and that for the time being you'll see this as a 1995 moment - but for me, nah. There's no stars in 2020 like there were in 1995. There's nothing fresh or different that can be done that was a true game changer like there was in 1995 (Going live, bring in a different style of wrestling that hadn't been seen before).
> 
> I'll never understand comparing a live form of entertainment to films and TV shows - but I like that you think that way and you have high hopes for wrestling.


I am not saying wrestling in general had no household names in 96/97, I am saying the WWF did not. All the names people knew in mainstream society were in WCW.

You are not going to get me to defend anything when it comes to Cena. He blows and is the primary reason I stopped watching for a long time.

I have just seen too many things that everyone thought was dead and buried come back to be completely pessimistic. If it was easy, anyone could do it and it would be done all the time. But it is hard, and will take a sustained effort like I said. I definitely do not think the answer is presenting the same kind of stuff Vince would do. We already have that and we have seen what that does to a fan base. If something fresh happens, we might see it as common sense looking back on it. Like, why did everyone in 1995 not just start doing what they did in 96/97? Because they did not know to do it yet.


----------



## Erik.

Lheurch said:


> why did everyone in 1995 not just start doing what they did in 96/97? Because they did not know to do it yet.


Because the culture in 1995 is COMPLETELY different to the culture in 1997 - but even then, Bischoff was on the verge of doing it anyway.

WWF obviously weren't because Vince hated it. He hadn't got a clue (and as evident by the past decade plus, he still hasn't) - it wasn't until he realised ECW had a certain following of wrestling fans within a niche market of 'violent wrestling', and another 3,000,000+ were enjoying another style of wrestling, he decided to copy it with the sole purpose of making his brand number 1.

And he's been doing that ever since, whilst wrestling has gotten more and more unpopular.

Someone is getting a following in the indies? Making a name for themselves? Quick, we'll sign them up and we've now got that following watching our show type mentality and in all honesty, if something happens in AEW that he likes or works, he'll copy that too, whether that's the way they present certain things or the way they go about certain things (Wrestlers in the audience etc. during non-audience shows for a start). 

Anyway, I feel like the convo on "Will wrestling be popular again" and "Wrestling should be more serious" has been done to death and this is the ratings thread at the end of the day.

I look forward to seeing the ratings for this weeks "Wednesday Night Slap Fight" - hopefully both shows kill it and we can get back up to 1,500,000 watchng wrestling on a Wednesday night again.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Wait..People still think WWE will ever change their ways if AEW somehow put on what they perceive as good?

Chile...


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Wait..People still think WWE will ever change their ways if AEW somehow put on what they perceive as good?
> 
> Chile...


You are aware of the 1990's yes? Saying WWE would not change when given actual competition is arguing against history.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I came in to post Jim Cornette's views on the topic and have walked into a shit storm. Allow me to hit some of the points on here but first, lets hear from the great man himself Jim Cornette.








prosperwithdeen said:


> Well Matt Hardy has been proven to draw live viewers already so I wouldn't bash or blame him, even though I myself am not a fan of the guy, I'd just say the Kieth Lee/Adam Cole/Balor NA Title match was far more entertaining in comparison for the audience. Its gonna be that way some times. Especially for the next 2 weeks in particular. It doesn't matter how Fyter Fest is structured as far as match placement, they're gonna lose to Io vs Sasha and the title unification regardless.


Matt Hardy got AEW a small temporary ratings boost when he was new and fresh. One week he also had the benefit of being booked in a street fight which is usually going to turn some heads and draw people in. He is now just another guy on the roster though and is no longer a draw. The freshness is what made him interesting but now we know what we're going to get and as proven by this weeks ratings people don't want it and tune out.



prosperwithdeen said:


> It's just a free episode of Dynamite, it's not like Jericho/OC is headlining a major PPV, which is why it's so weird and desperate to give away Sasha vs Io and the title unification just to win the live viewers, not that I'm complaining though. Competition makes everyone better.
> 
> Let OC and Jericho have their match who cares, there are still people who are entertained by it. I for one am looking forward to it more than everything else on the card outside of Mox/Cage, the tag title match, and the 8 Man tag.


So when NXT gives away a couple of big matches away on TV it's "weird and desperate" but when AEW does it then it's fine? Whaaaat?

"Let OC and Jericho have their match, who cares?" is the epitome of why wrestling struggles. Who cares? 300,000 odd who went to NXT over AEW this past week to see what the other channel had on offer because they didn't want this Orange Cassidy bullshit on their wrestling show. I'd still host the match but it'd be a 3-4 minute deal where Jericho beats the shit out of Orange and brags about it for weeks.



optikk sucks said:


> OC Jericho will be a good match. Jericho will make the man look like a million bucks; tbf he already does after his work with Jericho.


But Orange Cassidy doesn't need to be made to look like a million bucks. He's hit his glass ceiling and that's it. Hopefully this match with Jericho is by far the highlight of his career.



rbl85 said:


> Guys there is more chance to never see Tyson on AEW than him doing something with Jericho


Yeah, and that was stupid as well. You put the building blocks in place to do an angle only for the guy to never return. That is the epitome of TNA booking.



optikk sucks said:


> Pro-wrestling is dead bro. WWE/WCW murdered it. You're not going to get back to the glory days, when memes like this constantly circulate.
> 
> View attachment 88188


And as we've said a thousand times at this point we don't want the glory days or to "work" anyone into thinking it's real we just want a product that appears real. Something that we can easily suspend our disbelief to. It shouldn't be that hard.



optikk sucks said:


> To add onto this, OC is very much over with the kids. These are the guys who become long term fans.


Where are these child OC fans? I saw the cosplay a page or two prior but I can't see children being into the guy who puts his hands in his pockets without smart mark dads trying to force it on them.



prosperwithdeen said:


> MJF sent in 2 great promo packages, so I don't know why you keep harping about vignettes. Vignettes are not gonna do anything to make the show better. Besides, vignettes are proven to lose live viewers across all wrestling shows. Though, they would have been nice to see I do agree.


The vignettes AEW have done usually feature people that the audience don't care about (Janela/Kiss, Best Friends, Darby Allin riding a skateboard). As I pointed out yesterday to Erik you can do more with a 60 second vignette then anything else usually.

They do make the shows better by the way and anyone arguing they don't doesn't know their shit unfortunately. Vignettes have worked for 30-40 years.



optikk sucks said:


> and another thing - pro-wrestling nerds probably hated saturn and moppy, but as a kid i found it funny as fuck and it's a highlight for me from the attitude era.
> 
> You don't want the kids to have these sorts of memories?
> 
> or are you on the "fuck them kids" wave? in which case, wrestling will not last another 10 years.


Saturn and Moppy wasn't insulting. Saturn suffered so many concussions that he fell in love with an inanimate object. This is actually a genuine mental health issue called objectophilia although it doesn't generally occur from head trauma to my knowledge. Regardless, he was treated like he was insane, nobody wanted to be around him because of how odd he was acting and I think they even did segments where he was encouraged to get help but he refused.

Stuff like that is fine but when you have a guy whose story is he's too lazy to fight or he's a 5'0 110 pound guy who will fight anyone it's just stupid.



optikk sucks said:


> like bruh, i genuinely feel bad for you guys that over critique and over-analyse. from "his taunt is too long" to "he wasn't a fan, others said so"
> 
> have you honestly forgotten what you enjoyed about pro-wrestling as a kid? do you look for what others think before you make your own opinion?
> 
> i mean mans actually out here telling me taunts are too long LMAO.
> 
> fuck me


I started watching at 11 or 12 but I enjoyed the reality. I liked Regal hitting people with those beautiful European Uppercuts of his, the first show I ever watched was WrestleMania 17 and I saw Raven get thrown through the window and totally bought it. It was the most violent thing I'd ever seen in my life up until that point and I remember just how excited that match made me feel and how in awe I was of it.

I've never really been a "bad comedy" guy. I liked the insult humour from guys like Rock or Stone Cold, I liked the antics of Edge & Christian trying to get out of matches etc but even as a kid I can't say I'd have been into the Goobeldy Gooker or characters like that.

Also, where do you guys come up with that whole "Do you look for what others think before you make your own opinion?" argument? I see it a lot on here. Most of us comment our opinions live on the forum as the shows are going on. Do you think we tab out and see what others are saying before commenting? Come on.



Erik. said:


> The same people arguing over the smallest shit in wrestling over and over again.
> 
> Why do you do it to yourselves? It's wrestling man.


Because Erik, some of us give a shit about the wrestling industry and don't want to see it die. Some of us were excited that a billionaire was going to buy a wrestling company, get on a major network and give it another shot again. Maybe that's why we do it to ourselves. Because we give a fuck.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> You are aware of the 1990's yes? Saying WWE would not change when given actual competition is arguing against history.


This isn't the 90's dude. WWE is in a much better position now than they were back then. I mean since AEW started has WWE really changed their product? It's the same shit they've been doing and will continue to do no matter what. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it's going to happen now.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> This isn't the 90's dude. WWE is in a much better position now than they were back then. I mean since AEW started has WWE really changed their product? It's the same shit they've been doing and will continue to do no matter what. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it's going to happen now.


Why would they change yet? AEW is barely a blip on their radar. Things that happened in the past are good predictors for what will happen in the future. They changed when WCW went head to head with them on their flagship product and started to beat them. Nothing like that has happened and that is what it would take. To assume WWE would not change no matter what is ignorant of history and common sense.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> Why would they change yet? AEW is barely a blip on their radar. Things that happened in the past are good predictors for what will happen in the future. They changed when WCW went head to head with them on their flagship product and started to beat them. Nothing like that has happened and that is what it would take. To assume WWE would not change no matter what is ignorant of history and common sense.


My point still stands.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> My point still stands.


What point? That WWE will not change no matter what? All of history disagrees with you given relevant variables.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> And btw how can you compare Cena to OC. I mean that’s absolutely a ridiculous comparison. Cena was overpushed; once he left, the fans left. There was no reason to stay on because WWE didn’t bother making other stars. It’s a very different situation. If OC is pushed like that, then yes I would agree. But if OC plays a decent minor role that gives the kids memories, while there are reason to continue watching, the same thing wouldn’t happe.


This is such a bush league take. There’s no other way to say it. Ranging from the cliche of “the top star was pushed” to not really addressing what a push is. Orange Cassidy is being featured against their biggest star. That’s a push, optikk.



optikk sucks said:


> Trust me bro, I’m not upset. I gave you your internet points and I still am saying that Jericho makes his opponents look like a million bucks. OC has looked like a million bucks so far. Your poll is also invalid. But you can now cry and whine about it all you want. Something is wrong with you.


Jericho did not make OC look like a million bucks. In the clip I saw, you can see OC telegraphing spots and cooperating. Jericho selling his offence looks ridiculous. It was bad. 



Erik. said:


> The same people arguing over the smallest shit in wrestling over and over again.
> 
> Why do you do it to yourselves? It's wrestling man.


How dare people discuss on a discussion forum. And again, another person trying to downplay wrestling on the AEW side. It’s really quite amazing, haha. 



Erik. said:


> I'm not happy with mediocrity, so I don't watch mediocrity. Simple as that.
> 
> Its relatively easy.
> 
> I'm passionate about art. You know what I do when I see art I don't like? Move on to the art I do like.
> 
> If you get your enjoyment from arguing with people over something you don't like then more power to you. Soldier on.


552,000 viewers. Yep, I’d say a lot of people are moving on to art they like. 



Erik. said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I think wrestling and societies opinion on wrestling were alot different in 1995 than they are in 2020 personally which is a big factor for me.
> 
> And if anything, the popularity and opinion of wrestling is only going to continue to decrease over the coming years.


Especially if you do things like *push Orange Cassidy.*


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Erik, some of us give a shit about the wrestling industry and don't want to see it die. Some of us were excited that a billionaire was going to buy a wrestling company, get on a major network and give it another shot again. Maybe that's why we do it to ourselves. Because we give a fuck.


Cool. 

Why do you have to argue?


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> How dare people discuss on a discussion forum. And again, another person trying to downplay wrestling on the AEW side. It’s really quite amazing, haha.


Oh look, another person getting discussion and argument mixed up.

Getting heated because I said arguing with someone because they like something and you don't is stupid. 

Are you feeling okay?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Discussions can’t happen when people are acting elitist and talk down to others.
I’ll happily discuss things with guys like Lheurch and I know he doesn’t enjoy the product. But he doesn’t talk down to me like I’m a piece of shit who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Discussions my ass.


----------



## Cult03

Erik. said:


> Oh look, another person getting discussion and argument mixed up.
> 
> Getting heated because I said arguing with someone because they like something and you don't is stupid.
> 
> Are you feeling okay?


AEW super fans: "I don't mind Marko Stunt, everything AEW does is perfect"

Angry Aussies: "But why?"

AEW super fans: "OH MY GURRRD WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH US?"


----------



## rbl85

Cult03 said:


> AEW super fans: "I don't mind Marko Stunt, everything AEW does is perfect"
> 
> *Angry Aussies: "But why?"*
> 
> AEW super fans: "OH MY GURRRD WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH US?"


Yeah sure, all you say is "but why ?"......


----------



## Cult03

Such elitism, so much trolling. Sensitive Sally's who have no conviction in their arguments don't want to have an adult conversation and back down because we act like our opinions are correct. I'm sorry, but why the fuck would we have an opinion if we didn't think it was the correct opinion? I'm happy to change my opinion if given evidence, just like I have with Orange Cassidy. But as soon as the AEW super fans opinion is questioned they get defensive as fuck and act like they're had their whole world turned upside down. Makes me think you're all over compensating for something.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> Yeah sure, all you say is "but why ?"......


Go through my post history and find the numerous times I've asked why someone thinks something about AEW and then try and find the replies. I reckon I get about a 100:1 ratio. You guys don't actually believe half the stuff you say on here. It's shown by how often you attack us instead of having that conversation about why Marko Stunt is good for the business. We get defensive when our opinion is referred to as a troll attempt, because you're not arguing a point, you're attempting to belittle the person so their opinion is seen as worthless. If we are elitist, what are you guys?


----------



## rbl85

Cult03 said:


> Such elitism, so much trolling. Sensitive Sally's who have no conviction in their arguments don't want to have an adult conversation and back down because we act like our opinions are correct. I'm sorry, but why the fuck would we have an opinion if we didn't think it was the correct opinion? I'm happy to change my opinion if given evidence, just like I have with Orange Cassidy. *But as soon as the AEW super fans opinion is questioned they get defensive as fuck and act like they're had their whole world turned upside down. Makes me think you're all over compensating for something.*


I think those "AEW super fans" think the same about you and a few others


----------



## Erik.

Cult03 said:


> AEW super fans: "I don't mind Marko Stunt, everything AEW does is perfect"
> 
> Angry Aussies: "But why?"
> 
> AEW super fans: "OH MY GURRRD WHY ARE YOU ARGUING WITH US?"


Right, but I don't like Marko Stunt.

So try again?

I do admire you calling me a super fan though. Considering I'm the one not arguing over the smallest details, Im not sure I fit the definition.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> I think those "AEW super fans" think the same about you and a few others


I dare you to find any time I have had my opinion questioned where I didn't attempt to give an explanation as to why I thought that. But to make it difficult you have to actually find a post, not make it up like @Garty does


----------



## Cult03

Erik. said:


> Right, but I don't like Marko Stunt.
> 
> So try again?
> 
> I do admire you calling me a super fan though. Considering I'm the one not arguing over the smallest details, Im not sure I fit the definition.


Surely you understood that was just a common example that was prevalent on this forum for months?


----------



## Erik.

Cult03 said:


> Surely you understood that was just a common example that was prevalent on this forum for months?


I have no idea. 

I don't enjoy Marko Stunt so wouldn't get into a discussion over him with someone that actually does like him. Because what would be the point? Am I meant to change their mind? They aren't going to change mine.


----------



## Cult03

Erik. said:


> I have no idea.
> 
> I don't enjoy Marko Stunt so wouldn't get into a discussion over him with someone that actually does like him. Because what would be the point? Am I meant to change their mind? They aren't going to change mine.


General curiosity really. I'd genuinely like to understand the thought process behind enjoying something that is universally panned. When the question is asked I get called a troll. There's a serious misunderstanding behind my posts here that get blown up because of sensitive Sally's like Optikk, Garty, DanielAllan, Pippen, NXT Only and a bunch of people I lovingly refer to as the AEW Super Fans and their inability to actually discuss the product. I like half of the show most of the time. But all of my dislikes from the very beginning has seen my actual character attacked instead of a conversation about a product I actually want to see improve.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Cool.
> 
> Why do you have to argue?


I'm not arguing I'm having a discussion and am very blunt especially on topics I'm passionate about.



Erik. said:


> Oh look, another person getting discussion and argument mixed up.
> 
> Getting heated because I said arguing with someone because they like something and you don't is stupid.
> 
> Are you feeling okay?


Says the guy who accused someone else of arguing legitimately a post before.



rbl85 said:


> Yeah sure, all you say is "but why ?"......


I can back Cult03 up that he, The Wood, Lheurch, Hammerstone, myself and most of the "Angry Aussies" (I love that name by the way especially since I'm so chill) generally aren't very combative. We certainly don't go for personal insults like the AEW super fans do.

Most of the time if I don't get something I ask. Very rarely someone will explain why but they'll get super defensive about it when asked. Meanwhile if someone asks me "Why do you like Cody?" or the totally not overused question of "Well, why do you watch?" I'm always happy to answer.



Cult03 said:


> Go through my post history and find the numerous times I've asked why someone thinks something about AEW and then try and find the replies. I reckon I get about a 100:1 ratio. You guys don't actually believe half the stuff you say on here. It's shown by how often you attack us instead of having that conversation about why Marko Stunt is good for the business. We get defensive when our opinion is referred to as a troll attempt, because you're not arguing a point, you're attempting to belittle the person so their opinion is seen as worthless. If we are elitist, what are you guys?


Yeah, the argument I've seen for Marko is "It's just wrestling and it's fake. Marko isn't hurting anyone" but nobody has ever explained why he's a positive or how he's in a company with "Elite" in the title. 

Same with Joey Janela and Sonny Kiss. I asked our mate Erik what forum is in love with Janela and Kiss and he just says "Another forum I visit" without specifying.


----------



## Erik.

Cult03 said:


> General curiosity really. I'd genuinely like to understand the thought process behind enjoying something that is universally panned. When the question is asked I get called a troll. There's a serious misunderstanding behind my posts here that get blown up because of sensitive Sally's like Optikk, Garty, DanielAllan, Pippen, NXT Only and a bunch of people I lovingly refer to as the AEW Super Fans and their inability to actually discuss the product. I like half of the show most of the time. But all of my dislikes from the very beginning has seen my actual character attacked instead of a conversation about a product I actually want to see improve.


Universally panned by who?

I see on social media and other forums defending Stunt in the same way some people on here do - he isn't beating anyone, he takes a beating and he was over with the audience when audiences were a thing. I would rather he wasn't on my screen and if he happens to be involved in a segment involving people I enjoy, then I usually sigh because I don't really enjoy him as a performer and if he was around, I'd rather he just managed Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy as some sort of silent manager who does nothing.

You're a better man then I if you like half of the show AEW gives out - because 3/4s of it, especially since the pandemic are usually quite poor but that's another discussion entirely. Jericho has already confirmed that because there's no audience, it's pretty hard to create genuine "heat" therefore they lean into the more comedic entertainment route during a time of worry for a lot of people - so hopefully when the audience are back, which seems to be a long time away, they can provide a better product. They have so much time between now and then to genuinely think out and write some potential compelling television ready to hit the ground running when that happens.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> What point? That WWE will not change no matter what? All of history disagrees with you given relevant variables.


History can be wrong you know. Acting like things aren't different is Ignorant and lacking sense. Funny how you tried to put that on me.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> History can be wrong you know. Acting like things aren't different is Ignorant and lacking sense. Funny how you tried to put that on me.


History is the one thing that can never be "wrong" because it actually happened. People can be wrong, but history is what it is. And you are just plain incorrect here, Vince and the WWE changed when they were forced to and would again. At least you stopped removing names from quotes, it proves you can change too, just like Vince.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> History is the one thing that can never be "wrong" because it actually happened. People can be wrong, but history is what it is. And you are just plain incorrect here, Vince and the WWE changed when they were forced to and would again. At least you stopped removing names from quotes, it proves you can change too, just like Vince.


But again..Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen in the present. You're right in that history is what it is but that doesn't set anything in stone like you think it does.

And I only have your name in the quote because I was able to properly quote you. Kept fucking up before and that's why. You really need to let that go.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But again..Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen in the present. You're right in that history is what it is but that doesn't set anything in stone like you think it does.
> 
> And I only have your name in the quote because I was able to properly quote you. Kept fucking up before and that's why. You really need to let that go.


Past events are a good predictor for future events. You are the one saying WWE will never change no matter what, ignoring what actually has happened before. You are arguing that a company will behave in a polar opposite way that they have in the past. Why?

Weird how you keep blaming "the system" for messing up. You removed names on purpose. Just admit it. Exactly the right amount of characters were deleted to allow you to quote a post but remove the name. That does not magically happen, that was purposeful intent. And you are going to be called on it every time by people who understand how code works


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> Past events are a good predictor for future events. You are the one saying WWE will never change no matter what, ignoring what actually has happened before. You are arguing that a company will behave in a polar opposite way that they have in the past. Why?
> 
> Weird how you keep blaming "the system" for messing up. You removed names on purpose. Just admit it. Exactly the right amount of characters were deleted to allow you to quote a post but remove the name. That does not magically happen, that was purposeful intent. And you are going to be called on it every time by people who understand how code works


I'm not blaming the system I'm blaming myself I messed up in quoting so what happened happened. It's not something I did on purpose so you wouldn't see it...Like why do you think that I'm afraid of you? What would I gain by purposely leaving your name out of a quote and why are you being petty over it? You saw the shit and we were continued to have the argument so what's really the issue?

And Like I said before. History is a good reference but it DOESN'T SET ANYTHING IN STONE. And on top of that things change. WWE is a much bigger and stable company than they were back then. Also, people were willing to give wrestling a try. That's not the case nowadys, There's so much shit out there that wrestling can't really compete with. AEW is not gonna be WCW, WWE is not gonna usher in so new boom. Get over it and accept where wrestling is. And I'm not saying don't try to be better. I'm saying Wrestling is staying Niche no matter how it's presented and dressed up and you can't just sit here and act like the MNW will happen again.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Also. I wanna know these people who act like AEW is so perfect and everything they do is perfect because I have not seen that at all. That to me sounds like generalizing because some people can't take the fact that people actually LIKE what AEW is doing and don't think they way they do.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not blaming the system I'm blaming myself I messed up in quoting so what happened happened. It's not something I did on purpose so you wouldn't see it...Like why do you think that I'm afraid of you? What would I gain by purposely leaving your name out of a quote and why are you being petty over it? You saw the shit and we were continued to have the argument so what's really the issue?
> 
> And Like I said before. History is a good reference but it DOESN'T SET ANYTHING IN STONE. And on top of that things change. WWE is a much bigger and stable company than they were back then. Also, people were willing to give wrestling a try. That's not the case nowadys, There's so much shit out there that wrestling can't really compete with. AEW is not gonna be WCW, WWE is not gonna usher in so new boom. Get over it and accept where wrestling is. And I'm not saying don't try to be better. I'm saying Wrestling is staying Niche no matter how it's presented and dressed up and you can't just sit here and act like the MNW will happen again.


When did I mention fear? I simply said you had to make an effort to remove it, which you did. Your reason and purpose is your own, and I am not speculating on it, I am just pointing out it took work to do it.

When did I say WWE MUST do the same things they have done? You said they WILL NOT ever change. You made the set in stone argument, not me. I said Vince has shown he will change direction when forced to, so it is likely based on that evidence not 100% set in stone certain, that he would again. You said he never would, ever.

You are building in excuses for them. You are the one pretending to know the future here. You give the platitude of telling them to try, but ultimately you already have determined it is not possible. Wrestling will never be cool again because you have determined it cannot be. So why bother? What a boring universe you must live in.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Also. I wanna know these people who act like AEW is so perfect and everything they do is perfect because I have not seen that at all. That to me sounds like generalizing because some people can't take the fact that people actually LIKE what AEW is doing and don't think they way they do.


I was that guy for sure until Matt Hardy showed up, MJF got shoved back down the card, Hangman lost his spotlight, and I hear that we don't want CM Punk or Killer Kross but we do want Matt Hardy and Zach Ryder.

Now, Im a wrestling fan without a place to go. I still watch AEW because they are our only hope but it doesn't feel like its happening. Only things that they are doing right these days is the Brian Cage push and letting Wardlow actually wrestle more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Also. I wanna know these people who act like AEW is so perfect and everything they do is perfect because I have not seen that at all. That to me sounds like generalizing because some people can't take the fact that people actually LIKE what AEW is doing and don't think they way they do.


You serious, bro?

Go and read the Tessa Blanchard thread, there are legitimately people in there who immediately pretend they don't want her as soon as WWE is interested. There are people who genuinely say shit like Orange Cassidy is the next Rock or MJF is the best wrestler in the world right now and there are people who will call you a virgin or a nerd if you don't like the product AEW is producing. I have legitimately debated with all of these people and the majority of them will not explain to you why AEW is so great just that it is and if you don't agree you're a kissless virgin wrestling nerd who needs a woman.

Hell, I'm sure if we made a thread asking if AEW is the best wrestling show ever you'd get at least 25% of the people on this forum saying yes. It's definitely nothing against people who like the majority of what AEW is doing it's against those who blindly kiss AEW's ass and act like Tony Khan is the second coming of Paul Heyman. For you to suggest you've never seen it at all has to be untruthful.


----------



## bdon

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was that guy for sure until Matt Hardy showed up, MJF got shoved back down the card, Hangman lost his spotlight, and I hear that we don't want CM Punk or Killer Kross but we do want Matt Hardy and Zach Ryder.
> 
> Now, Im a wrestling fan without a place to go. I still watch AEW because they are our only hope but it doesn't feel like its happening. Only things that they are doing right these days is the Brian Cage push and letting Wardlow actually wrestle more.


You and I are in the same boat, buddy. And who is to say Brian Cage is getting “a push”? Lance Archer looked far more credible when he was facing Cody, and as soon as that program ended, Archer was off tv until a program with fucking Sonny Kiss and Joey Janela was available.

I have turned off the TV early the last 2 weeks. I didn’t do that before, because I felt there was a payoff to everything, everything meant something.

In crowdless shows, they haven’t tried to doing any fucking thing storyline-wise, except for Jericho and Cody.

You don’t care enough to put effort into your show, then I don’t care enough to make an effort to watch. Fuck you, Cody.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Oh look, another person getting discussion and argument mixed up.
> 
> Getting heated because I said arguing with someone because they like something and you don't is stupid.
> 
> Are you feeling okay?


Whose getting heated? Stop projecting moods over the internet. 



optikk sucks said:


> Discussions can’t happen when people are acting elitist and talk down to others.
> I’ll happily discuss things with guys like Lheurch and I know he doesn’t enjoy the product. But he doesn’t talk down to me like I’m a piece of shit who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
> Discussions my ass.


You were on here insulting people because you got caught in a lie. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> I was that guy for sure until Matt Hardy showed up, MJF got shoved back down the card, Hangman lost his spotlight, and I hear that we don't want CM Punk or Killer Kross but we do want Matt Hardy and Zach Ryder.
> 
> Now, Im a wrestling fan without a place to go. I still watch AEW because they are our only hope but it doesn't feel like its happening. Only things that they are doing right these days is the Brian Cage push and letting Wardlow actually wrestle more.


You and I have argued a lot, but it takes an honest person to admit their opinion has changed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was that guy for sure until Matt Hardy showed up, MJF got shoved back down the card, Hangman lost his spotlight, and I hear that we don't want CM Punk or Killer Kross but we do want Matt Hardy and Zach Ryder.
> 
> Now, Im a wrestling fan without a place to go. I still watch AEW because they are our only hope but it doesn't feel like its happening. Only things that they are doing right these days is the Brian Cage push and letting Wardlow actually wrestle more.


They don’t want Zack Ryder. Cody said they don’t want to sign him.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> I was that guy for sure until Matt Hardy showed up, MJF got shoved back down the card, Hangman lost his spotlight, and I hear that we don't want CM Punk or Killer Kross but we do want Matt Hardy and Zach Ryder.
> 
> Now, Im a wrestling fan without a place to go. I still watch AEW because they are our only hope but it doesn't feel like its happening. Only things that they are doing right these days is the Brian Cage push and letting Wardlow actually wrestle more.


"Our" only hope of what, may I ask?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> They don’t want Zack Ryder. Cody said they don’t want to sign him.


Cody said that he is concerned that if he hires him they will look like All Friends Wrestling. That’s not saying he doesn’t want to sign him. 



Erik. said:


> "Our" only hope of what, may I ask?


I can’t speak for TKO, but it’s pretty obvious what he means, I think: good wrestling on TV. It’s what everyone wants.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> I can’t speak for TKO, but it’s pretty obvious what he means, I think: good wrestling on TV. It’s what everyone wants.


But there's plenty of wrestling on TV.

Why is AEW "our" only hope?

One mans good is another mans bullshit.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Cody said that he is concerned that if he hires him they will look like All Friends Wrestling. That’s not saying he doesn’t want to sign him.
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t speak for TKO, but it’s pretty obvious what he means, I think: good wrestling on TV. It’s what everyone wants.


The same Cody who pushed his jobber best friend and co-owner of the Nightmare Factory into a mid-card act that just got lots of offense against your World Tag Team champions? That Cody..? DOESN’T want to look like it is “All Friends Wrestling”?


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> But there's plenty of wrestling on TV.
> 
> Why is AEW "our" only hope?
> 
> One mans good is another mans bullshit.


Good wrestling.*

Some stuff works and other stuff doesn’t. Quality isn’t as subjective as you are making out.



bdon said:


> The same Cody who pushed his jobber best friend and co-owner of the Nightmare Factory into a mid-card act that just got lots of offense against your World Tag Team champions? That Cody..? DOESN’T want to look like it is “All Friends Wrestling”?


Hey, don’t shoot the messenger. Not until Brandi gets here. She has to get her air time in.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Good wrestling.*
> 
> Some stuff works and other stuff doesn’t. Quality isn’t as subjective as you are making out.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don’t shoot the messenger. Not until Brandi gets here. She has to get her air time in.


Oh, I understood you were just repeating the message.

Here, I’ll repeat another Cody message: winsssss and lossesssssss matterrrrrrrr.

Ask MJF.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

wait..people have written off WWE? The monopoly of pro-wrestling? The company which redefined pro-wrestling at the end of last century?

If anyone has a chance to do it again, it's going to be WWE. Other companies will follow.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> wait..people have written off WWE? The monopoly of pro-wrestling? The company which redefined pro-wrestling at the end of last century?
> 
> If anyone has a chance to do it again, it's going to be WWE. Other companies will follow.


the do have the most tools in their toolbox + the most money to engineer a comeback

so, you’re right - a strong WWE means a strong wrestling landscape


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the do have the most tools in their toolbox + the most money to engineer a comeback
> 
> so, you’re right - a strong WWE means a strong wrestling landscape


Exactly. WWE have been failing on its own. I expect a kick up its backside soon as the coronavirus era is over


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> Good wrestling.*
> 
> Some stuff works and other stuff doesn’t. Quality isn’t as subjective as you are making out.


Okay, but the idea I get is that to most of you on here think AEW isn't good wrestling for the most part. Just have hopes for it to be.

So why are they "our" only hope?

Theres 4 wrestling shows on a week, two of which have proven history of being good wrestling in the past - why aren't they a choice with hope? 

Aswell as multiple other promotions across other platforms, some of which are good (NWA and MLW).

Everything about pro wrestling is subjective.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Okay, but the idea I get is that to most of you on here think AEW isn't good wrestling for the most part. Just have hopes for it to be.
> 
> So why are they "our" only hope?
> 
> Theres 4 wrestling shows on a week, two of which have proven history of being good wrestling in the past - why aren't they a choice with hope?
> 
> Aswell as multiple other promotions across other platforms, some of which are good (NWA and MLW).
> 
> Everything about pro wrestling is subjective.


Well, for me, WWF/E has never been a hope for good professional wrestling. I have hated their shows for as long as I can remember. I am not going to revert back to studio shows, so NWA is out for me. I have no clue about MLW, and I am casual enough that I don’t want to go out of my way to find how to watch DAZN or whatever channel it is. Same reason I never watched ROH.

I am the odd diehard/casual hybrid. I am a casual wrestling fan, and an AEW diehard. It isn’t that we don’t think AEW is never good. In fact, I have said many times their show up until the pandemic hit, was on point and provided me with Nitro-level nostalgia. A few episodes were great, but for the most part, I loved the shows.

When the pandemic hit, it is like they have used it as an excuse to halfass things. I know it isn’t very likely that I will ever get a chance at another wrestling company on as large a scale, so where they are hiding behind the pandemic, scared to give away angles and great television without crowds, I think the time to jump would be NOW when WWE is floundering with their weak ass shows lacking crowds to hide the lack of substance.

It kills me thinking of the missed opportunities.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

optikk sucks said:


> wait..people have written off WWE? The monopoly of pro-wrestling? The company which redefined pro-wrestling at the end of last century?
> 
> If anyone has a chance to do it again, it's going to be WWE. Other companies will follow.


What you say is true. But the thing is..they won't.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Discussions can’t happen when people are acting elitist and talk down to others.
> I’ll happily discuss things with guys like Lheurch and I know he doesn’t enjoy the product. But he doesn’t talk down to me like I’m a piece of shit who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
> Discussions my ass.


I do enjoy most of the product though.I will keep watching as long as it is more good than bad. I have said that several times. I stopped watching WWE and wrestling entirely for years once Cena became a thing. They just have a few things that are intelligence insulting. It was getting much better earlier in the year before COVID, but has been getting worse the last couple months. I am as willing as anyone to give them a pass for crowdless shows once all this is over. We can all collectively agree never to discuss that time period again.

Saying OC and Marko insult anyone with a working brain does not mean I hate the product overall. But I am still going to comment and criticize dumb things. There were things I hated on my favorite Attitude Era shows too. I still loved the product overall then.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Erik. said:


> "Our" only hope of what, may I ask?


Legit, take Vince by his balls and lead him to the battlefield level competition.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Well, for me, WWF/E has never been a hope for good professional wrestling. I have hated their shows for as long as I can remember. I am not going to revert back to studio shows, so NWA is out for me. I have no clue about MLW, and I am casual enough that I don’t want to go out of my way to find how to watch DAZN or whatever channel it is. Same reason I never watched ROH.
> 
> I am the odd diehard/casual hybrid. I am a casual wrestling fan, and an AEW diehard. It isn’t that we don’t think AEW is never good. In fact, I have said many times their show up until the pandemic hit, was on point and provided me with Nitro-level nostalgia. A few episodes were great, but for the most part, I loved the shows.
> 
> When the pandemic hit, it is like they have used it as an excuse to halfass things. I know it isn’t very likely that I will ever get a chance at another wrestling company on as large a scale, so where they are hiding behind the pandemic, scared to give away angles and great television without crowds, I think the time to jump would be NOW when WWE is floundering with their weak ass shows lacking crowds to hide the lack of substance.
> 
> It kills me thinking of the missed opportunities.


You remind me of my brother, as casual as they come, except even more so as he doesn't come on forums. 

He hadn't watched wrestling since the fad died nearly 20 years ago, told him to watch DON with me last year and he loved it. Has since watched every one or their shows. Likes certain things, dislikes certain things. 

MLW is on YouTube, you should check them out. I feel like it'd probably be more up your street.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> Legit, take Vince by his balls and lead him to the battlefield level competition.


What made you think AEW would be that? 

And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> You remind me of my brother, as casual as they come, except even more so as he doesn't come on forums.
> 
> He hadn't watched wrestling since the fad died nearly 20 years ago, told him to watch DON with me last year and he loved it. Has since watched every one or their shows. Likes certain things, dislikes certain things.
> 
> MLW is on YouTube, you should check them out. I feel like it'd probably be more up your street.


Well, I have a hard time buying that MLW’s in-ring action is going to top AEW’s, which is what I enjoy most.

I didn’t become a Kenny Omega fan based on promos. Lmao


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Well, I have a hard time buying that MLW’s in-ring action is going to top AEW’s, which is what I enjoy most.
> 
> I didn’t become a Kenny Omega fan based on promos. Lmao


There have been some excellent matches in MLW - if you're in the game for watching wrestling matches to see what something is all about:

Pentagon vs. LA Park
Lucha Bros vs. Los Parks
Low Ki vs. Fenix

Are 3 that I can recommend you just because you've heard of Fenix and Pentagon.

Honestly, just watch 1 episode of MLW Fusion - it's an hour on YouTube.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> What made you think AEW would be that?
> 
> And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?


This is a problem

half here want AEW to be something to ‘force WWE to be better’

and the other half are just ‘fans of AEW’

the endgame is not the same in both those camps


----------



## rbl85

Personaly i don't care about AEW forcing the WWE to do this or that....

I watch AEW because i like the majority of what i'm seeing.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Okay, but the idea I get is that to most of you on here think AEW isn't good wrestling for the most part. Just have hopes for it to be.
> 
> So why are they "our" only hope?
> 
> Theres 4 wrestling shows on a week, two of which have proven history of being good wrestling in the past - why aren't they a choice with hope?
> 
> Aswell as multiple other promotions across other platforms, some of which are good (NWA and MLW).
> 
> Everything about pro wrestling is subjective.


Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.

But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.

No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.


----------



## Erik.

The Wood said:


> Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.
> 
> But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.
> 
> No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.


So they're not "our" only hope then. Got ya.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Erik. said:


> What made you think AEW would be that?
> 
> And what time frame did you set them to be that without any history or knowledge of running a wrestling company?


I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that. 

It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!

And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.

They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.

They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.

AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?

Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.


What the fuck happened to that? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.

AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Because, and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, WWE doesn’t have to try unless they want to, and the product has been on a general downslide since 2001, and everything else is dying/drying up.
> 
> But yes, WWE is actually a lot of people’s only hope. AEW has flopped so bad that WWE has become the babyface for a lot of people without even changing anything. It’s remarkable.
> 
> No, not everything about pro-wrestling is subjective. Who drew more money — Hulk Hogan or JBL? This is not a subjective question. Some things work, other things don’t. Some things are going to make wrestling better healthier, others are going to drive its ratings down to 552,000 viewers. This is not subjective opinion.


Lol they push Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy, 2 guys you don’t like but some others do, and draw a low 550K rating for ONE segment, for ONE week, after the show started at 700k+, and all of a sudden their a “flop” and dead like they can’t bounce back 1 or 2 weeks later. Calm down my guy. This just means that they need to pivot, which of course they will do.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that.
> 
> It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!
> 
> And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.
> 
> They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.
> 
> They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.
> 
> AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?
> 
> Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.
> 
> 
> *What the fuck happened to that*? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.
> 
> AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.


I don’t know, maybe it was....no crowd shows during a pandemic?


----------



## Aedubya

Bah gawd the WWE fans are flicking their bean senseless over last weeks viewing figures aren't they?


----------



## validreasoning

Aedubya said:


> Bah gawd the WWE fans are flicking their bean senseless over last weeks viewing figures aren't they?


Goes both ways..




LifeInCattleClass said:


> the do have the most tools in their toolbox + the most money to engineer a comeback
> 
> so, you’re right - a strong WWE means a strong wrestling landscape


Does it though.

WWE were super strong in 88-89 yet everyone else was falling off in popularity big time.

WWE was nuclear hot in 99-2000 and WCW were falling off a cliff popularity wise and ECW was no longer as popular.

The mini boom of 2006-09 in WWE did see a spike for other companies and many in Europe made a quick buck running ex WWE guys but there is no proof a hot wwe will see all boats rise. It's possible but not 100% guaranteed.

Even then not sure why people long for a boom. Next boom might be all old women watching, it might be all kids under 10. Just because last one was teen males doesn't mean the next one will appeal to anyone in IWC demographic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

validreasoning said:


> Goes both ways..
> 
> 
> 
> Does it though.
> 
> WWE were super strong in 88-89 yet everyone else was falling off in popularity big time.
> 
> WWE was nuclear hot in 99-2000 and WCW were falling off a cliff popularity wise and ECW was no longer as popular.
> 
> The mini boom of 2006-09 in WWE did see a spike for other companies and many in Europe made a quick buck running ex WWE guys but there is no proof a hot wwe will see all boats rise. It's possible but not 100% guaranteed.
> 
> Even then not sure why people long for a boom. Next boom might be all old women watching, it might be all kids under 10. Just because last one was teen males doesn't mean the next one will appeal to anyone in IWC demographic.


WWE have had a monopoly over pro-wrestling since 2001. When casuals think pro-wrestling, they think WWE. I can't imagine that another company will come along and overtake WWE.


----------



## Erik.

TKO Wrestling said:


> I am very realistic, I never once thought they could get it done for several years. I have consisently said it would likely be between 2027-30 before they got even and then it would take until 2040 to truly make a generation of fans. Dads taking their kids to an AEW show and talking about how 20 years ago they watched MJF throw the towel in on Cody. Stuff like that. Stuff WWE offers. Stuff WCW offered in their day. That takes time. Kids today are dads in 20 years, just like Jungle Boy was a little boy in the crowd once on Raw, AEW had to do the same thing here. Can't rush that.
> 
> It isn't that I am saying AEW would be drawing 2 million immediately, it is saying that they should have been trending up, not down. WWE should be scared shitless of them, THEY WERE, look at a year ago when they changed it all, hired Heyman and Bischoff for Raw & SDown, they were in a panic. AEW had just did DoN, huge success, Mox was literally the hottest guy in the business and every single fan was on pins and needles to see Punk debt. The question wasn't if Punk debuted, the debate right here on this forum, on twitter, and in fans living rooms across the country was "Will Punk come at All Out in Chicago or will they save him for the Dynamite debut on 10/2?" Fun times, I was in the 10/2 camp, great debates!
> 
> And instead we got Jake Hager. Jake Hager was the big ending to the debut show. And don't act like AEW didn't ask for it when they hyped the shit out of a mystery tag main event. yes, they spoiled it a few days before, but for weeks it was constant speculation THAT AEW CREATED.
> 
> They had 75% of Raws audience in the palm of their hands and they delivered Jake Hager. They should have never hyped that up and not delivered. From the end of All Out until the Christmas break they were really bad. Really, really bad.
> 
> They were GREAT in January and February, this is when I adjusted my thinking and started seeing their wisdom. MJF was becoming a star, Hangman was also. Several others were getting over with crowds, it felt like they were on to something. And they threw that all away for Matt Hardy and a single PPV buyrate. Fuck that.
> 
> AEW should be around 1.2 million viewers right now and gradually going up, not down. Had they signed Punk + developed their guys + went out and inked guys like Brian Cage +++++ Hammerstone/Fatu/Kross, wouldn't that have been better than giving big money to sub standard stars like Matt Hardy?
> 
> Obviously they can turn it around but they haven't done themselves any favors. The show I went to in Austin in February was STACKED, from start to finish, every match was great, no segments where you would want to flip the channel off.
> 
> 
> What the fuck happened to that? January/February AEW was the best TV i have seen in ages on a wrestling show, the most excited I had been to tune into a TV show since the Mafia was formed in TNA and I was waaaaay more excited about AEW than I was TNA, but it had been that long.
> 
> AEW in Jan/Feb had WWE really pushing itself, yes they were only doing 40% of the rating, but it was consistent and fans were happy. It was growing during Mania season for goodness sakes. Now WWE can put it on cruise control again.


Thank you for your response - it's a great post.

I'm glad you agree with me on Dynamite being excellent in January and February - I thought the run of shows they had in the build to 'Revolution' were the best wrestling TV of the year and considering all we're going to get now is audience-less shows, it will probably stay at that.

I genuinely think if COVID doesn't happen - they trend upwards. They were hitting such consistency with their shows, stories and talent.

"What the fuck happened to that?"

The pandemic, in my view. It's not a coincidence that pre-pandemic was what you describe. Stacked cards, great matches, no segments that made you want to turn over and a very prominent part of their show, a hot crowd that YOU yourself were involved in. Post-pandemic? Weaker cards, more squash matches, much more filler segments and no hot crowd to make raise segments.

Now, if the crowds come back and the current format sticks around and is what they deliver, then I'll rethink my stance.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This is a problem
> 
> half here want AEW to be something to ‘force WWE to be better’
> 
> and the other half are just ‘fans of AEW’
> 
> the endgame is not the same in both those camps


Half here want what they were promised by AEW, dirt sheet writers, wrestlers and the AEW super fans.

The other half have given up on it ever challenging anyone like WWE


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

rbl85 said:


> Personaly i don't care about AEW forcing the WWE to do this or that....
> 
> I watch AEW because i like the majority of what i'm seeing.


I'm the same way. I don't give a damn about WWE being better. They're never going to GET better. Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. I'm all about watching wrestling and wrestlers I like/Care about and IMO that's what everyone should be doing honestly. 

And honestly..I don't get the mindset of "Making WWE Better" That to me says that it's not about AEW or really getting behind something you like. At the end of the day they just want a better WWE and that probably entails the product that they grew up with. At the end of the day it's all about WWE and that's sad to me.


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm the same way. I don't give a damn about WWE being better. They're never going to GET better. Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. I'm all about watching wrestling and wrestlers I like/Care about and IMO that's what everyone should be doing honestly.
> 
> And honestly..I don't get the mindset of "Making WWE Better" That to me says that it's not about AEW or really getting behind something you like. At the end of the day they just want a better WWE and that probably entails the product that they grew up with. At the end of the day it's all about WWE and that's sad to me.


I can assure you it has nothing to do with WWE. I’ll walk away again hoping to live long enough to see aanother billionaire try his hand in wrestling.

Likely won’t see it, but I’ll enjoy life waiting more than I would enjoy watching a stupid fucking Vince McMahon product.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> I can assure you it has nothing to do with WWE. I’ll walk away again hoping to live long enough to see aanother billionaire try his hand in wrestling.
> 
> Likely won’t see it, but I’ll enjoy life waiting more than I would enjoy watching a stupid fucking Vince McMahon product.


Well that's great to hear on your part. 

Me personally I'm not the type to sit and wait for someone with money to get into wrestling as I could be waiting forever for that shit to happen. I'ma enjoy what's out there already. It's not like wresting is inaccessible. 

And just so you know I'm not taking a dig at you. I'm just saying.


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well that's great to hear on your part.
> 
> Me personally I'm not the type to sit and wait for someone with money to get into wrestling as I could be waiting forever for that shit to happen. I'ma enjoy what's out there already. It's not like wresting is inaccessible.
> 
> And just so you know I'm not taking a dig at you. I'm just saying.


I just don’t need wrestling for wrestling’s sake. I watched WCW, because it was good. I didn’t watch Raw, because it was shit when it was Austin smacking McMahon with a bed pan (who the fuck lets Stone Cold dress up as a goddamn doctor!?) and is still shit today when I’ve turned it on at various points over the last 2 decades.

I have tried to get into Powerrr, but it is way too low-budget for my liking. Studio wrestling can’t exist in 2020, at least not for my liking.

So yeah, I don’t need wrestling. I have plenty of other hobbies and a career I can always focus on more. Possible career change in the next 5 years due to an early retirement.

Wrestling needs to be must-see TV for me to stick around.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Considering the ratings drop, if I were AEW, I would change Page/Omega vs BF and also Jericho vs OC. I know it's not a PPV but I remember back in the day WCW would do this often, they would go into PPV with a feud set in stone almost and these guys would not even face and people didn't care cause WCW was hot. Like Roddy Pipper had done an angle where he was training guys from various backgrounds to be in his group for War Games and when the PPV match happened, all these guys were gone and Piper had joined the Horsemen team. 

Archer and Brodie takes out BF and take their place against Omega/Page. Have Jericho join Santana and Ortis in their match with Hardy joining Private Party for the other side. You could say OC is injured cause of the brawl against Jericho on Dynamite. Then during Fyter Fest, you could have someone like Janella throwing a challenge on a open mic to OC for a match right now, saying OC is a coward, etc... So OC shows up injured and face him.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> I just don’t need wrestling for wrestling’s sake. I watched WCW, because it was good. I didn’t watch Raw, because it was shit when it was Austin smacking McMahon with a bed pan (who the fuck lets Stone Cold dress up as a goddamn doctor!?) and is still shit today when I’ve turned it on at various points over the last 2 decades.
> 
> I have tried to get into Powerrr, but it is way too low-budget for my liking. Studio wrestling can’t exist in 2020, at least not for my liking.
> 
> So yeah, I don’t need wrestling. I have plenty of other hobbies and a career I can always focus on more. Possible career change in the next 5 years due to an early retirement.
> 
> Wrestling needs to be must-see TV for me to stick around.


Yeah I'm kinda the same way. Got a dozen hobbies that I can focus on that I'm not so tied to wrestling hoping that Someone challenges WWE or Vince gets mad or some shit like that. There's so much shit out there to Watch/play that focusing on wrestling alone just seems crazy.

Like for me if I like it and it peaks my interest I'll watch it. If not then I won't.


----------



## Joe Gill

AEW does not have compelling storylines... most of the creative are bunch of indy geeks who have no clue how to write compelling tv. Just about every wrestler is already in a rut.. no one is growing or evolving their character...its the same crap every week... when AEW first started I found Darby Allen, MJF, Jungle Boy and a few others to be compelling characters with lots of potential... and here we are a year later and their characters have hardly grown... having the same matches with the same spots and same personality. Thats what happens when you book every match as 50/50 with no dq finishes... everything turns bland and mediocre. Where are the long term dramatic storylines to help characters get over? oh thats right they burnt through al of them in their first 3 months like MJF turning on Cody. People can blame the lack of crowds all they want but nxt is in the same boat. 

Very dissapointed with AEW the last 3-4 months....it went from fun and entertaining where the 2 hours would fly by to what it is now.... just meh with no real reason to tune in anymore. Doesnt help with Cody hogging the spotlight every week and Moxley with a dud title run. Chris Jericho is the only reason why I still follow AEW... no one else really gets me excited. He is miles ahead of everyone... it really goes to show that the art of wrestling is dead.... these young guys just dont understand the art of wrestling and truly getting over.. they are too short sighted and it leads to early burn out. 

Remember how excited Excalibur would get for every suicide dive through the ropes? well when you do it a million times you can only fake that excitement for so long.... and now AEW is paying the price with no long term plan. Cant believe im actually saying this but AEW might need vince russo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> But there's plenty of wrestling on TV.
> 
> Why is AEW "our" only hope?
> 
> One mans good is another mans bullshit.


AEW is the only hope for wrestling fans who don't like WWE but want another international wrestling product to come in and do the same as what WWE does. Personally I don't care if AEW beats WWE in ratings or whatever I just care that they absolutely kill it week to week.

NJPW can't do that in the USA stopping their expansion at a tour every year, TNA was the closest we've got since WCW but they're now a large independent wrestling company drawing 200-300 thousand viewers a week on television.

ROH had good potential but is also an independent. MLW and NWA are mid ranged indies.

None of these companies have the budget to compete with WWE domestically EXCEPT AEW. This might very well be why most people view AEW as their only hope.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol they push Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy, 2 guys you don’t like but some others do, and draw a low 550K rating for ONE segment, for ONE week, after the show started at 700k+, and all of a sudden their a “flop” and dead like they can’t bounce back 1 or 2 weeks later. Calm down my guy. This just means that they need to pivot, which of course they will do.


This is the problem with you AEW hardcore fans.

Yeah, 550k is their record low but the ratings have been going down ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A MONTH ON AVERAGE! 100,000 people! The show starting at 700,000 and then dropping isn't a good thing it's a really bad thing because that means 150,000 people (Or more!) said "Fuck this, I'm out of this shit show" by the time the main event and Jericho/OC came out. That's not how you do television.

Can they bounce back? Maybe. We don't know just how many of those fans are done with AEW for good. For many people Orange Cassidy being a main event guy might very well be the last straw for them. We won't know until this weeks episode.



optikk sucks said:


> WWE have had a monopoly over pro-wrestling since 2001. When casuals think pro-wrestling, they think WWE. I can't imagine that another company will come along and overtake WWE.


People thought the same about WCW as well but they managed to do it. All it takes is a smart person and AEW very well could be competitive with WWE in the future.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW is the only hope for wrestling fans who don't like WWE but want another international wrestling product to come in and do the same as what WWE does. Personally I don't care if AEW beats WWE in ratings or whatever I just care that they absolutely kill it week to week.
> 
> NJPW can't do that in the USA stopping their expansion at a tour every year, TNA was the closest we've got since WCW but they're now a large independent wrestling company drawing 200-300 thousand viewers a week on television.
> 
> ROH had good potential but is also an independent. MLW and NWA are mid ranged indies.
> 
> None of these companies have the budget to compete with WWE domestically EXCEPT AEW. This might very well be why most people view AEW as their only hope.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem with you AEW hardcore fans.
> 
> Yeah, 550k is their record low but the ratings have been going down ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A MONTH ON AVERAGE! 100,000 people! The show starting at 700,000 and then dropping isn't a good thing it's a really bad thing because that means 150,000 people (Or more!) said "Fuck this, I'm out of this shit show" by the time the main event and Jericho/OC came out. That's not how you do television.
> 
> Can they bounce back? Maybe. We don't know just how many of those fans are done with AEW for good. For many people Orange Cassidy being a main event guy might very well be the last straw for them. We won't know until this weeks episode.
> 
> 
> 
> People thought the same about WCW as well but they managed to do it. All it takes is a smart person and AEW very well could be competitive with WWE in the future.


I really wish people would go back and look at my post history prior to November. Then check the posts from January to mid-March. Then check the posts afterwards.

I think I am a great barometer of the fan support given my two decade hiatus from the weekly wrestling audience. We want to give it the attention it deserves. When they do dumb shit like Butcher and Blade’s random entrance to kick Cody’s ass without anyone knowing who they are, or when the Dork Order kicks the Elite’s ass for apparently no reason, then we deservedly shit on it. When they put together bangers like January to Mid-March, we get excited and see “hope”.

What we see in the Pandemic Era is all similar to 80s/90s ha ha WWF-levels if comedy bullshit. What we see is a promotion doing as little as they can to save angles and feuds whilst making sure to simply keep a weekly show going to avoid being cancelled by TNT, which Alvarez has hinted is the case.

Well here’s a fucking idea. If not putting anything on TV means you get cancelled, then why not drop your fucking dick on the table while every other promotion is scared to run good tv without crowds and DARE Vince McMahon to try and be as creative as you are.

I can assure you, Kenny and the Bucks can write stories. Look no further than the older episodes of BTE. Just dare them to write the shit without a comedic side to it.

They can be great, but it is going to require someone, anyone challenging them to stop being scared and just go for broke.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> So they're not "our" only hope then. Got ya.


It is for wrestling fans who don’t want their intelligence insulted, yes. If you want to ostracise yourself, be my guest.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol they push Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy, 2 guys you don’t like but some others do, and draw a low 550K rating for ONE segment, for ONE week, after the show started at 700k+, and all of a sudden their a “flop” and dead like they can’t bounce back 1 or 2 weeks later. Calm down my guy. This just means that they need to pivot, which of course they will do.


It highlights these guys have zero clue what they are doing. I don’t need companies continuously apologising for their bad content. Develop instincts for good content. 



Aedubya said:


> Bah gawd the WWE fans are flicking their bean senseless over last weeks viewing figures aren't they?


Not much of a WWE fan these days. Definitely flicking my bean seeing even some of the most staunch AEW apologists saying “Yeah, it’s pretty bad” though.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I really wish people would go back and look at my post history prior to November. Then check the posts from January to mid-March. Then check the posts afterwards.
> 
> I think I am a great barometer of the fan support given my two decade hiatus from the weekly wrestling audience. We want to give it the attention it deserves. When they do dumb shit like Butcher and Blade’s random entrance to kick Cody’s ass without anyone knowing who they are, or when the Dork Order kicks the Elite’s ass for apparently no reason, then we deservedly shit on it. When they put together bangers like January to Mid-March, we get excited and see “hope”.
> 
> What we see in the Pandemic Era is all similar to 80s/90s ha ha WWF-levels if comedy bullshit. What we see is a promotion doing as little as they can to save angles and feuds whilst making sure to simply keep a weekly show going to avoid being cancelled by TNT, which Alvarez has hinted is the case.
> 
> Well here’s a fucking idea. If not putting anything on TV means you get cancelled, then why not drop your fucking dick on the table while every other promotion is scared to run good tv without crowds and DARE Vince McMahon to try and be as creative as you are.
> 
> I can assure you, Kenny and the Bucks can write stories. Look no further than the older episodes of BTE. Just dare them to write the shit without a comedic side to it.
> 
> They can be great, but it is going to require someone, anyone challenging them to stop being scared and just go for broke.


How old are you ?


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> How old are you ?


Not that it matters, but I’m 36.


----------



## Danielallen1410

That main event rating is awful.

Lets face it, the dynamites since going back live have been shit.

I will watch Fyter fest but the crowds really cannot come back soon enough.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Not that it matters, but I’m 36.


It matter because if you were let's say....50+ years old then your take on the situation would be less important.


----------



## The Wood

Not really. Only to certain advertisers.

And I don’t know why people think obnoxious crowds going mild are going to make that much of a difference.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> Not really. Only to certain advertisers.
> 
> And I don’t know why people think obnoxious crowds going mild are going to make that much of a difference.


Lovely typo


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> It matter because if you were let's say....50+ years old then your take on the situation would be less important.


Nah, I’m definitely not 50, even if I may come off like the Old Man Yells at Cloud meme haha, but I’m only 36 and feel I’m a perfect representation of the type of fan AEW should have been targeting. I’m one of the 2-3 million fans that literally turned wrestling off at the end of the Monday Night Wars.

Hell, I had never even watched anything Cody Rhodes had done prior to that first Dynamite. I had “heard” about All In and Double or Nothing, but I wasn’t about to get invested in some promotion that required me only watching on PPV or some obscure channel late at night.

Once Dynamite started, specifically on TNT which I still feel a strong connection to, I was invested. After the first showing aired, I immediately watched the replay that aired directly after like Nitro used to do. After that, I began to invest in everyone, needing to inform myself of who the unknowns were and what guys like Jericho had done in my absence. I went deep down the rabbit hole, predicting Sammy and Darby‘s feud being great television as I’d seen some stuff they done on the indies.

But yeah. I’m one of those long time NWA/WCW guys that simply refused to move past 2001 until I seen “...Wrestling on TNT.”


----------



## zkorejo

AEW has been not so hot after DoN.. I think they need to rethink their strategy, right now it seems like the shows are so good 2 month into PPV and they immediately lose all steam and slow down with average feuds and cards for like a month or two until the next PPV comes close. It works for PPVs but doesnt work for the fans that want the consistent quality each week, which I understand is very hard to pull off especially during a pandemic. But I think that is the problem.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Not really. Only to certain advertisers.
> 
> And I don’t know why people think obnoxious crowds going mild are going to make that much of a difference.


the crowd was probably the best thing about aew.

the wrestling has never been the main attraction for me, it’s just the atmosphere is a lot better than wwe..... without that it’s pretty dull to watch like every wrestling show.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> the crowd was probably the best thing about aew.
> 
> the wrestling has never been the main attraction for me, it’s just the atmosphere is a lot better than wwe..... without that it’s pretty dull to watch like every wrestling show.


If that white, 35-45 year old crowd with their smarky chants is the best thing about a show, it might be time to go home. I’m not saying that crowds don’t help make a show or anything. But when that crowd is the BEST part? Hmm.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> *If that white*, 35-45 year old crowd with their smarky chants is the best thing about a show, it might be time to go home. I’m not saying that crowds don’t help make a show or anything. But when that crowd is the BEST part? Hmm.


And ?


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> And ?


It’s overly white. Wrestling used to draw diverse groups consisting of people from all demographics. You could see it, hear it and feel it from those crowds.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> It’s overly white. Wrestling used to draw diverse groups consisting of people from all demographics. You could see it, hear it and feel it from those crowds.


And ?

I don't give a shit about if a crowd is white, black or yellow.
Hell they could be robots i would be ok with it as long as they react to the show.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> If that white, 35-45 year old crowd with their smarky chants is the best thing about a show, it might be time to go home. I’m not saying that crowds don’t help make a show or anything. But when that crowd is the BEST part? Hmm.


for me a hot crowd makes or breaks a show. Hogan vs rock would have been shit in an empty arena So no idea why anyone thinks Moxley vs cage should be brilliant.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> If that white, 35-45 year old crowd with their smarky chants is the best thing about a show, it might be time to go home. I’m not saying that crowds don’t help make a show or anything. But when that crowd is the BEST part? Hmm.


Thats the thing, you see AEW at first and see the crowd and think „wow“, but then you watch the show and ho „nah“. With all this comparing to WCW and old WWE there was always a rowdy fun crowd BUT ALSO a good to great show. Now its just people who want them to succeed and scream even for shit and that makes a bad meme of a wrestling show out of Dynamite. Maybe thats why the viewership decreased so bad, because now people see that it is just shit wrestling without any substance?!


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> And ?
> 
> I don't give a shit about if a crowd is white, black or yellow.
> Hell they could be robots i would be ok with it as long as they react to the show.


Hoo, boy. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> for me a hot crowd makes or breaks a show. Hogan vs rock would have been shit in an empty arena So no idea why anyone thinks Moxley vs cage should be brilliant.


Okay, but Hogan vs. Rock and Mox vs. Cage are going to be immensely different anyway. Neither is anywhere near the star or worked that Hogan or Rock was. I don’t think I really get the comparison, because Mox/Cage isn’t going to be the same in front of that Toronto crowd, nor would Hogan and Rock be as special in front of 3,000 AEW fans.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Hoo, boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, but Hogan vs. Rock and Mox vs. Cage are going to be immensely different anyway. Neither is anywhere near the star or worked that Hogan or Rock was. I don’t think I really get the comparison, because Mox/Cage isn’t going to be the same in front of that Toronto crowd, nor would Hogan and Rock be as special in front of 3,000 AEW fans.


im not comparing the wrestlers which I think you know. Your just muddying the waters to dilute my point.

a good crowd can make an average show good

a poor crowd or no crowd can make a good show average.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> It’s overly white. Wrestling used to draw diverse groups consisting of people from all demographics. You could see it, hear it and feel it from those crowds.


Imagine someone saying the show has too many black people in the audience


----------



## rbl85

Danielallen1410 said:


> im not comparing the wrestlers which I think you know. Your just muddying the waters to dilute my point.
> 
> a good crowd can make an average show good
> 
> a poor crowd or no crowd can make a good show average.


I bet that the last few shows that you found boring would have been way less boring with a crowd.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> im not comparing the wrestlers which I think you know. Your just muddying the waters to dilute my point.
> 
> a good crowd can make an average show good
> 
> a poor crowd or no crowd can make a good show average.


No, I’m trying to work out what your point is. You’ve gone on to clarify, but that was a poor way of making it.

No one is saying that a crowd doesn’t enhance a match. But they’re not going to take horseshit and turn it into gold. Sorry, but that’s not going to happen. The idea is for the workers to work the crowd, not the crowd to artificially blow-up a match.

A crowd can make a special moment feel more special. Having no crowd can make things feel a bit more sterile. But just like you can have sitcoms without a laugh track, you can still do good work for an audience at home with limited fan participation. Studio wrestling worked. Empty arena stuff has worked.

It’s a cop-out to claim that Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy isn’t working because there are no uncool middle-aged people cheering him wildly. It’s not working because it’s bad. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> Imagine someone saying the show has too many black people in the audience


They’re really coming out now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lol at the people trying to paint Wood as some kind of racist against white people.

He's right, the AEW audience is absolutely filled with white people. Is there anything wrong with that? Kind of. It shows the AEW product isn't really appealing to anyone except dorky looking white people.

I remember my friend asked me to go with him to a comedy show once and bought the ticket. I didn't know the comic that well and turned up to see like 500 middle aged white people laughing at this old dude and I remember laughing at how white the audience was.


----------



## Ozell Gray

It's been over a year since AEW put on their first PPV back in May 2019 with Double or Nothing. The promotion hasn't had a major uptick in viewership since then with their weekly Dynamite show.
Former WWE and WCW writer Vince Russo was a recent guest on Sportskeeda's Facebook Live show with Chris Featherstone where he revealed the reason why AEW's numbers haven't gone up.



> "I don't consider it a WCW reboot at all. I do not think they have a legitimate choice to make any noise if they are just going to cater to hardcore fans. They are catering to an audience they already have. Those people are going to watch AEW regardless. You've got to expand your audience. People don't understand, that's why the Attitude Era was successful. We knew we had to get casual wrestling fans, casual television viewers. We had to go outside the scope of wrestling because our mentality was 'the wrestling fans are already watching the show'."





> "I have watched every AEW episode because I review it on Russo's Brand with Justin Credible. I've watched every episode - they're catering to an audience they already have and they're going to sit there and wonder why their numbers aren't going up? How are your numbers going to go up if you have the same audience every single week. It has nothing to do with AEW, it has nothing to do with wrestling - that's business. If you are a successful company and you've got a customer base, you've got to keep growing that customer base - that's any business. In 9 months, they have not done one thing to go beyond their fan base. That's why their numbers have been the same since day 1. "


*AEW viewership numbers*
AEW and WWE's NXT shows have been battling it out on Wednesday nights, with WWE's show even beating AEW last week in the viewership numbers. AEW has averaged anywhere between 600,000 to 800,000 with their weekly Dynamite shows, while last week's show could garner just 633,000 compared to NXT's 786,000.











Former WWE writer reveals why AEW's numbers aren't going up


AEW's numbers haven't gone up significantly since beginning operations last year. Vince Russo revealed what AEW are doing wrong which has resulted in their numbers not increasing.




www.sportskeeda.com


----------



## LongPig666

Do WWE have troll factories now?


----------



## MontyCora

Why are we STILL pretending this man is an expert? It's like posting Trump quotes about how to run a business.


----------



## Ozell Gray

LongPig666 said:


> Do WWE have troll factories now?


Vince Russo has a point their ratings are down because they're catering to the iwc and catering to the iwc is how you're ratings and viewership tanks. I don't know why you're bringing up WWE for when Russo's point was WWE's viewership and ratings increased but AEW's has decreased which is a fact when you look at the numbers.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Ozell Gray said:


> Vince Russo has a point their ratings are down because they're catering to the iwc and catering to the iwc is how you're ratings and viewership tanks. I don't know why you're bringing up WWE for when Russo's point was WWE's viewership and ratings increased but AEW's has decreased which is a fact when you look at the numbers.



WWE numbers are down year by year and are doing sub 2 mill and that's not good for a company with as much history ..that being said no crowds are hurting both and aew is just filling time not wanting to blow stories with no fans or else they would've done th blood and guts already ..also they don't have access to their full roster right now


----------



## NXT Only

Stopped at him saying they’re catering to hardcore fans. Wrestling doesn’t and won’t have a casual audience. It AEW and NXT weren’t on the same night they both hover around 1M IMO. That’s good enough but they’re splitting an audience and that is impacting them.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Botchy SinCara said:


> WWE numbers are down year by year and are doing sub 2 mill and that's not good for a company with as much history ..that being said no crowds are hurting both and aew is just filling time not wanting to blow stories with no fans or else they would've done th blood and guts already ..also they don't have access to their full roster right now


Hes talking about in the last couple months and in the last month WWE's viewership increased while AEW's decreased on average. There won't be fans so if they were "holding back" then they need to stop then.


----------



## CM Buck

Oh yeah, I'm going to listen to the guy who came up with such genius ideas as Judy on a pole matches, made David Arquette a champion as well as himself.

His just like Vince McMahon. Coasting on one or two good ideas 25 years ago. Russo has no idea what today's fans want. If he did he wouldn't be another old boy on a podcast, he would have a job at a promotion


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> Stopped at him saying they’re catering to hardcore fans. Wrestling doesn’t and won’t have a casual audience. It AEW and NXT weren’t on the same night they both hover around 1M IMO. That’s good enough but they’re splitting an audience and that is impacting them.


Neither one be getting 1 million viewers even if the other wasn't on at the same time because NXT viewers have 0 interest in AEW and its the same vice versa. When Dynamite wasn't on for a week NXT got 800k and when NXT too a break and only showed highlights Dynamite still couldn't get 1 million viewers which means they don't share an audience. They're not aplitting viewers since neither show gains viewers from the other when the other isn't on. They're are casuals who watch wrestling thats who majority of Raw and Smackdown's viewers are. NXT and AEW doesn't have any casuals watchi g them because casuals are more interested in storylines not workrate. Casuals don't read dirtsheets only hardcore wrestling fans do and AEW already has that audience.



Firefromthegods said:


> Oh yeah, I'm going to listen to the guy who came up with such genius ideas as Judy on a pole matches, made David Arquette a champion as well as himself.
> 
> His just like Vince McMahon. Coasting on one or two good ideas 25 years ago. Russo has no idea what today's fans want. If he did he wouldn't be another old boy on a podcast, he would have a job at a promotion


He booked Viagra on a pole and many other stupid matches but hes correct though in that they're catering to an audience they already have and you can't grow by doing that. Thats why they're viewership is tanking because they're pleasing their audience only and that audience is shrinking by the month.


----------



## CM Buck

Ozell Gray said:


> Neither one be getting 1 million viewers even if the other wasn't on at the same time because NXT viewers have 0 interest in AEW and its the same vice versa. When Dynamite wasn't on for a week NXT got 800k and when NXT too a break and only showed highlights Dynamite still couldn't get 1 million viewers which means they don't share an audience. They're not aplitting viewers since neither show gains viewers from the other when the other isn't on. They're are casuals who watch wrestling thats who majority of Raw and Smackdown's viewers are. NXT and AEW doesn't have any casuals watchi g them because casuals are more interested in storylines not workrate. Casuals don't read dirtsheets only hardcore wrestling fans do and AEW already has that audience.
> 
> 
> 
> He booked Viagra on a pole and many other stupid matches but hes correct though in that they're catering to an audience they already have and you can't grow by doing that. Thats why they're viewership is tanking because they're pleasing their audience only and that audience is shrinking by the month.


I know that. But that's all that's left. Casuals hate wrestling. The only way to get that audience back is to market professional wrestling like simulated UFC with an emphasis on grappling. Because that's where they went. But if you do that you take away the essence of wrestling which is outlandish personalities and gimmicks.

On the flip side if you go too gimmick stupid you run the risk of chasing off your fanbase.

It's best to just accept that in the eyes of society wrestling is a niche product. AEW, IW, NWA, MLW, ROH or WWE will never again achieve 1 million plus viewers every week like in the 90s


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MontyCora said:


> Why are we STILL pretending this man is an expert? It's like posting Trump quotes about how to run a business.


Okay Monty, he has been a writer of wrestling for 17 years and been in almost every major promotion including WWF, WCW and TNA. What does your resume look like?

Not trying to be a dick but 17 years in the business working directly in the business of getting ratings makes him an expert wrestling writer and an expert to talk on this topic.



NXT Only said:


> Stopped at him saying they’re catering to hardcore fans. Wrestling doesn’t and won’t have a casual audience. It AEW and NXT weren’t on the same night they both hover around 1M IMO. That’s good enough but they’re splitting an audience and that is impacting them.


So if there are no casual fans where did the 800,000 people who have stopped watching AEW go? Where are the 100,000 people a month tuning out of AEW going?



Firefromthegods said:


> Oh yeah, I'm going to listen to the guy who came up with such genius ideas as Judy on a pole matches, made David Arquette a champion as well as himself.
> 
> His just like Vince McMahon. Coasting on one or two good ideas 25 years ago. Russo has no idea what today's fans want. If he did he wouldn't be another old boy on a podcast, he would have a job at a promotion


Judy Bagwell on a pole and David Arquette but was directly involved in writing the angles that made Austin, Rock, Triple H etc household names. 

Personally he's not really my cup of tea either (I dug some ideas I hated some others) but to pretend he doesn't know anything and Cody, Khan, The Bucks and Omega do is a joke.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> So if there are no casual fans where did the 800,000 people who have stopped watching AEW go? Where are the 100,000 people a month tuning out of AEW going?


Ratings are down across the board especially in the summer time regardless of the current circumstances. Like I said they’d hover around 1M(800K is damn close)

It’s obviously a case by case basis. For me I can’t watch on Wednesdays and im sure some are the same way. For some they just catch it on demand or because everyone is home and they’re sharing a TV they stream it. Those 3 factors alone plus a direct competitor could account for it but obviously nothing is for sure.


----------



## NXT Only

Russo and Cornette are terrible for the advancement of the profession however. It’s like listening to old timers about baseball and they wonder why the sport isn’t growing. 

They need to let these guys work, make mistakes and figure things out instead of attacking everything or highlighting perceived flaws. Then it gets spinned as them wanting the company to flourish.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay Monty, he has been a writer of wrestling for 17 years and been in almost every major promotion including WWF, WCW and TNA. What does your resume look like?
> 
> Not trying to be a dick but 17 years in the business working directly in the business of getting ratings makes him an expert wrestling writer and an expert to talk on this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> So if there are no casual fans where did the 800,000 people who have stopped watching AEW go? Where are the 100,000 people a month tuning out of AEW going?
> 
> 
> 
> Judy Bagwell on a pole and David Arquette but was directly involved in writing the angles that made Austin, Rock, Triple H etc household names.
> 
> Personally he's not really my cup of tea either (I dug some ideas I hated some others) but to pretend he doesn't know anything and Cody, Khan, The Bucks and Omega do is a joke.


I didn't say that. I said he no longer has any good ideas. If he did he would be booking still. And there's no one in the industry who can reach the heights of the attitude era.

The 90s are over. Wrestling is a niche product. If any company gets 90s numbers every week it will be a miracle


----------



## Balor fan

Firefromthegods said:


> I didn't say that. I said he no longer has any good ideas. If he did he would be booking still. And there's no one in the industry who can reach the heights of the attitude era.
> 
> The 90s are over. Wrestling is a niche product. If any company gets 90s numbers every week it will be a miracle


Yeah its niche but not so niche that only 600k tune in. Everyone and their mother knows a good wrestling show could pull in 3 million viewers this day and age. This niche talk is just more excuses.


----------



## CM Buck

Balor fan said:


> Yeah its niche but not so niche that only 600k tune in. Everyone and their mother knows a good wrestling show could pull in 3 million viewers this day and age. This niche talk is just more excuses.


It's really not. Given the current climate even without crowds we should be having wrestling products with 90s numbers cause so many people are at home


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT Only said:


> Ratings are down across the board especially in the summer time regardless of the current circumstances. Like I said they’d hover around 1M(800K is damn close)
> 
> It’s obviously a case by case basis. For me I can’t watch on Wednesdays and im sure some are the same way. For some they just catch it on demand or because everyone is home and they’re sharing a TV they stream it. Those 3 factors alone plus a direct competitor could account for it but obviously nothing is for sure.


Ah, the old weather excuse. Independent promoters use that one all the time. "Sorry the crowd was down tonight lads must be because of all this rain we've been having"

The rating has been dropping on average 100,000 a month since October. Can't blame Summer for that.


----------



## Balor fan

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah, the old weather excuse. Independent promoters use that one all the time. "Sorry the crowd was down tonight lads must be because of all this rain we've been having"
> 
> The rating has been dropping on average 100,000 a month since October. Can't blame Summer for that.


Here is my take on it. NXT is better at building stars, its that simple. I never saw any Matt Riddle matches, I saw the pit fight and liked him. I never seen Karrion Kross before but I saw his entrance with Scarlett and got me interested.
I tune into AEW and see a geek with his hands in his pockets. Some other geek called Jungle boy is running around. Wtf is he Tarzan?

That's the first impression of someone who checks AEW out. These fans have no idea how their brand and wrestlers are perceived.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Firefromthegods said:


> I know that. But that's all that's left. Casuals hate wrestling. The only way to get that audience back is to market professional wrestling like simulated UFC with an emphasis on grappling. Because that's where they went. But if you do that you take away the essence of wrestling which is outlandish personalities and gimmicks.
> 
> On the flip side if you go too gimmick stupid you run the risk of chasing off your fanbase.
> 
> It's best to just accept that in the eyes of society wrestling is a niche product. AEW, IW, NWA, MLW, ROH or WWE will never again achieve 1 million plus viewers every week like in the 90s


I disagree that theres no casuals watching wrestling. The casuals watch Raw and Smackdown and thats why Raw does 1.7-1.9 million and Smackdown does 2.01-2.04 million viewers on average.

The thing thats been killing Dynamite since its debut is AEW aren't focusing on storylines but are instead too match heavy which matches don't draw unless it has a big storyline behind it like Steve Austin vs Undertaker on Raw.

In order for them to grow their audience they have to have storylines that people want to see, not one off matches that ends the storyline, and storylines with a long term goal that has a payoff. Thats the only way they're going to grow and please TNT long term if they want to stay on there. Raw and Smackdown could easily pull in 3 million viewers if the shows were better than what they are now. Russo or anyone else aren't expecting "Golden Era" and "Monday Night War" viewership just saying that they're numbers should be better than what they are is all.



NXT Only said:


> Russo and Cornette are terrible for the advancement of the profession however. It’s like listening to old timers about baseball and they wonder why the sport isn’t growing.
> 
> They need to let these guys work, make mistakes and figure things out instead of attacking everything or highlighting perceived flaws. Then it gets spinned as them wanting the company to flourish.


MLB's viewership has been increasing the last few years now, and letting the young guys make "mistakes" has led to spotfest matches all over the industry and has led the sport to the present declining state that its in. If you notice people have been tuning out of wrestling since 2000 and thats not by accident either.



NXT Only said:


> Ratings are down across the board especially in the summer time regardless of the current circumstances. Like I said they’d hover around 1M(800K is damn close)
> 
> It’s obviously a case by case basis. For me I can’t watch on Wednesdays and im sure some are the same way. For some they just catch it on demand or because everyone is home and they’re sharing a TV they stream it. Those 3 factors alone plus a direct competitor could account for it but obviously nothing is for sure.


If thats the case then Raw and Smackdown never lost viewers then because I or anyone else can say they watch it on on demand, the WWE Network, and streaming services. Again they wouldn't be getting 1 million viewers since NXT showed a highlight clip show and Dynamite still couldn't break 1 million viewers. It speaks volumes that AEW has a problem where viewers are tuning out at a record pace. Dynamite has lost 147k viewers on average since March which means they're doing something wrong and their biggest name in Chris Jericho just had the lowest viewed segment in Dynamite history at a horrible 552k viewership. Dynamite dropped from 847k viewers to 700k viewers now on average and just scored its lowest viewership at an abysmal 633k viewers last week. These excuses you're giving AEW are just that excuses. If the shows were good people would watch it but they haven't been.


----------



## 3venflow

To be fair, I'd say the cinematic stadium match and usage of Tyson went beyond catering to the diehards. They were more mainstream type concepts, even if they had limited effect.

Personally, I think the best path for AEW is an edgy, aggressive, high octane product with a healthy mix of storylines and wrestling. Moxley is a good figurehead for such a product and Mox vs Brodie is a good blueprint of an AEW main event.

Right now, and this is probably what Russo is getting at, there is too much wrestling on Dynamite. SOME (not all) matches need to be shorter in order to a). get more of the roster on TV, b). make the PPVs seem more important. A few weeks ago there were three tag matches with a similar formula, and all three were around 12-15 minutes long.

I definitely don't see pushing Orange Cassidy in a main program as the right sort of move for AEW. He definitely has his place, but he's too comedic for a top spot. The likes of Archer and Page should be in the upper tier with Mox/Jericho/Cody, not OC.


----------



## NahFam

One thread gets closed for bullshit, another 5 appear. You are the herpes of the AEW forum.


----------



## LongPig666

Ozell Gray said:


> Vince Russo has a point their ratings are down because they're catering to the iwc and catering to the iwc is how you're ratings and viewership tanks. I don't know why you're bringing up WWE for when Russo's point was WWE's viewership and ratings increased but AEW's has decreased which is a fact when you look at the numbers.


I'm not talking about that. The frequency, focus and content of your posts just remind me of a typical Russian troll factory script. Just saying!


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah, the old weather excuse. Independent promoters use that one all the time. "Sorry the crowd was down tonight lads must be because of all this rain we've been having"
> 
> The rating has been dropping on average 100,000 a month since October. Can't blame Summer for that.


I didn’t blame just the summer I listed multiple factors. All of which can apply.


----------



## The Wood

Modern day Vince Russo also has a ghost of a reasonable point, but he's always unreasonable about it. Yes, AEW plays only to a very specific audience that is not going to grow and is only going to be so loyal for so long. It's one thing to say "They need to appeal to casuals." How, Russo? He never gets that far. Also, I don't think Russo truly appreciates what made the Attitude era work and what was inconsequential to it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NahFam said:


> One thread gets closed for bullshit, another 5 appear. You are the herpes of the AEW forum.


You're the aids of this forum



LongPig666 said:


> I'm not talking about that. The frequency, focus and content of your posts just remind me of a typical Russian troll factory script. Just saying!


The troll here is you and you added nothing to the thread but 2 troll comments.


----------



## CM Buck

Ozell Gray said:


> I disagree that theres no casuals watching wrestling. The casuals watch Raw and Smackdown and thats why Raw does 1.7-1.9 million and Smackdown does 2.01-2.04 million viewers on average.
> 
> The thing thats been killing Dynamite since its debut is AEW aren't focusing on storylines but are instead too match heavy which matches don't draw unless it has a big storyline behind it like Steve Austin vs Undertaker on Raw.
> 
> In order for them to grow their audience they have to have storylines that people want to see, not one off matches that ends the storyline, and storylines with a long term goal that has a payoff. Thats the only way they're going to grow and please TNT long term if they want to stay on there. Raw and Smackdown could easily pull in 3 million viewers if the shows were better than what they are now. Russo or anyone else aren't expecting "Golden Era" and "Monday Night War" viewership just saying that they're numbers should be better than what they are is all.
> 
> 
> 
> MLB's viewership has been increasing the last few years now, and letting the young guys make "mistakes" has led to spotfest matches all over the industry and has led the sport to the present declining state that its in. If you notice people have been tuning out of wrestling since 2000 and thats not by accident either.
> 
> 
> 
> If thats the case then Raw and Smackdown never lost viewers then because I or anyone else can say they watch it on on demand, the WWE Network, and streaming services. Again they wouldn't be getting 1 million viewers since NXT showed a highlight clip show and Dynamite still couldn't break 1 million viewers. It speaks volumes that AEW has a problem where viewers are tuning out at a record pace. Dynamite has lost 147k viewers on average since March which means they're doing something wrong and their biggest name in Chris Jericho just had the lowest viewed segment in Dynamite history at a horrible 552k viewership. Dynamite dropped from 847k viewers to 700k viewers now on average and just scored its lowest viewership at an abysmal 633k viewers last week. These excuses you're giving AEW are just that excuses. If the shows were good people would watch it but they haven't been.


To me their numbers (both companies) just tell me that society doesn't care about wrestling anymore. Maybe it can have a resurgence like comics did but I just don't see it. Both shows should be getting at minimum 2.5


----------



## The Wood

Wrestling has done that to itself though. There have been big moves (Austin turning heel, Rock leaving, Triple H dominating for years, John Cena's push turning off a lot of people, some awful tragedies), but there have also been small ones. And that's this idealisation of ironic/comedic wrestling. An emphasis on "Whoa, man! Check out how many flips I can do! Isn't it wicked sick?!?" instead of being able to throw a good working punch and say the right things a minute to get people willing to drop $50 on a PPV.

People wouldn't walk away if it were actually good. People forget that about content. If it hits the spot, it'll find its home.


----------



## Geeee

Russo has said this exact thing about WWE.

That being said, I do feel catered to by AEW, so he's probably right.


----------



## DarkMyau

Opinions expressed by Vince Russo do not represent those of someone who knows what hes talking about.


----------



## NahFam

Ozell Gray said:


> *You're the aids of this forum*
> 
> 
> 
> The troll here is you and you added nothing to the thread but 2 troll comments.


If only I was, I'd kill off your output of shit threads if that was the case.


----------



## Rozzop

No such thing as a casual fan. 

There is a high chance wrestling hooked you in as a child.

If you don't watch anymore it is because you likely outgrew it.


----------



## zkorejo

Yeah they should bring in David Arquette ASAP.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NahFam said:


> If only I was, I'd kill off your output of shit threads if that was the case.


I like his threads.


----------



## NahFam

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like his threads.


That doesn't surprise me to be honest.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NahFam said:


> If only I was, I'd kill off your output of shit threads if that was the case.


You are and you've killed your credibility with dumb comments already.


----------



## Whoanma

Another Ozell Gray thread shitting on AEW.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Whoanma said:


> Another Ozell Gray thread shitting on AEW.


And you can't stop whining about me either let that sink in.


----------



## NahFam

Ozell Gray said:


> You are and you've killed your credibility with dumb comments already.


Are you a bit special mate? Serious question. You post like you are.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NahFam said:


> Are you a bit special mate? Serious question. You post like you are.


You post like an idiot and this comment is an illustration of it.


----------



## qntntgood

Ozell Gray said:


> Vince Russo has a point their ratings are down because they're catering to the iwc and catering to the iwc is how you're ratings and viewership tanks. I don't know why you're bringing up WWE for when Russo's point was WWE's viewership and ratings increased but AEW's has decreased which is a fact when you look at the numbers.


And russo is right,aew has to grow it audience because the iwc is such a small minority.they already have that audience,now is the time to expand or hire the people that will help you grow.


----------



## JBLGOAT

Like Devotion Pro Wrestling appeals to casuals?


----------



## NahFam

Ozell Gray said:


> You post like an idiot and this comment is an illustration of it.


 Maybe try posting with a bit of substance once in a while, rather than trolling and spamming multiple threads with dubious sources. Maybe your threads wouldn't get closed so often and you'd be taken more seriously.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

I hate to say this but Russo has a point, hardcore fans always say that there are no casuals and there never will be, but how do you know since no company is actually going after casuals? 

Vince thinks he's going after casuals but his all ages approach to shows turns off teens and "the demo". There needs to be a tv 14 product with a focus on characters, promos, and big storylines that get people talking, the marketing should focus on personalities and recaps of storylines; I haven't seen an AEW commercial in a while but the last time I did it was all action and it was the most choreographed and unrealistic spots, I have to imagine that the crowd that goes "you know wrestling is fake, right" sees that and goes "look how fake this shit is". 

You've got to find a different way to sell wrestling, when people watch Marvel movies they don't go "it's so fake" because they buy into the narrative, as long as wrestling is focused on in-ring action and presenting itself as a sport the people who don't know better are just going to look at it like a fake UFC instead of a narrative driven action show.


----------



## shandcraig

Ozell Gray said:


> Vince Russo has a point their ratings are down because they're catering to the iwc and catering to the iwc is how you're ratings and viewership tanks. I don't know why you're bringing up WWE for when Russo's point was WWE's viewership and ratings increased but AEW's has decreased which is a fact when you look at the numbers.



And wwe is catering to the SJW. Neither are catering to the good old Rastling fan. Anyways talking about numbers being down at this time is beyond a dumb thing to say by anyone. No one wants to watch wrestling with no fans waching.


----------



## Ozell Gray

qntntgood said:


> And russo is right,aew has to grow it audience because the iwc is such a small minority.they already have that audience,now is the time to expand or hire the people that will help you grow.


The already have the iwc watching so they need the casuals to watch and without the casuals they won't last long on TNT. Cody Rhodes said last year that they're not targeting casuals so AEW are in big trouble because their audience has shrunk the fastest in wrestling history.


NahFam said:


> Maybe try posting with a bit of substance once in a while, rather than trolling and spamming multiple threads with dubious sources. Maybe your threads wouldn't get closed so often and you'd be taken more seriously.


Theres no trolling its just me posting news from sites that you don't like. My threads don't get closed only 1 did and you'd know that if you weren't a troll seeking attention.


----------



## Ozell Gray

shandcraig said:


> And wwe is catering to the SJW. Neither are catering to the good old Rastling fan. Anyways talking about numbers being down at this time is beyond a dumb thing to say by anyone. No one wants to watch wrestling with no fans waching.


The viewership was going down even when they had fans in the crowd and WWE's numbers have been dropping since 1999 so thats nothing new.



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I hate to say this but Russo has a point, hardcore fans always say that there are no casuals and there never will be, but how do you know since no company is actually going after casuals?
> 
> Vince thinks he's going after casuals but his all ages approach to shows turns off teens and "the demo". There needs to be a tv 14 product with a focus on characters, promos, and big storylines that get people talking, the marketing should focus on personalities and recaps of storylines; I haven't seen an AEW commercial in a while but the last time I did it was all action and it was the most choreographed and unrealistic spots, I have to imagine that the crowd that goes "you know wrestling is fake, right" sees that and goes "look how fake this shit is".
> 
> You've got to find a different way to sell wrestling, when people watch Marvel movies they don't go "it's so fake" because they buy into the narrative, as long as wrestling is focused on in-ring action and presenting itself as a sport the people who don't know better are just going to look at it like a fake UFC instead of a narrative driven action show.


Its always been the storylines that drew in wrestling not "5 star matches." Matches draw when you have a big storyline behind it like Hulk Hogan vs Andre the giant, The Rock vs Steve Austin, and Steve Austin vs the Undertaker. Tv 14 really doesn't matter if the product isn't good. It could be tv pg and draw good ratings and viewership because of good storylines so it doesn't necessarily have to be tv 14.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

JBLGOAT said:


> Like Devotion Pro Wrestling appeals to casuals?


I saw one episode and after reading this post just now decided to give them a shot again now that Russo has had 4 months to settle into the writing position.

I don't think it'd appeal to casuals (Their biggest name is Kizarny of WWE fame) but would definitely appeal to the AEW fans.

- The tag team champions are two guys doing a religious gimmick but instead of dressing like priests they're dressed up like the door knockers who turn up at your house around dinner time trying to talk about Jesus. Of course they are a heel tag team which is kind of amusing because who isn't annoyed by those guys?

- One heel is doing a "I can beat any female wrestler" gimmick despite him being a man. A lady then proceeds to kick him in the balls only for him to eventually arrogantly beat her.

- Evil Clown gimmick.

- 5'5 guy that doesn't even kind of resemble a wrestler doing a self harm gimmick

- Evil Doctor gimmick

- Heel artist gimmick that reminds me of Matt Hardy

- Babyface military stable.

- A mental patient gimmick including abusive wrestler saying he's pathetic for having mental health issues.

- A stable named "The Black Horsemen"

It's good shit, bro.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

*Vince Russo is *
right


The same reason for WWE low ratings


----------



## karebear

this doesn't make sense, surely nxt to appeals more to the hardcore fanbase of wrestling than aew and they have seen a gradual rise over time.

it's actually the kind of stuff russo probably would like that is messing aew up like all the comedy stuff


----------



## Chip Chipperson

karebear said:


> this doesn't make sense, surely nxt to appeals more to the hardcore fanbase of wrestling than aew and they have seen a gradual rise over time.
> 
> it's actually the kind of stuff russo probably would like that is messing aew up like all the comedy stuff


NXT appeals to people who want a serious wrestling product similar to the old days (At least that's what I'm told and what I've seen from the little bit I've watched). They take the in ring stuff seriously, the stories are treated seriously and are realistic and all of the roster look like men.

AEW appeals to people who want goofy independent style wrestling. Very rarely can you go 20 minutes without some kind of comedy being launched your way and a lot of the roster look like kids or are out of shape.

NXT is infinitely more appealing and quite frankly cooler to be watching. Imagine trying to explain Marko Stunt or Sonny Kiss to your buddy who happens to come over and catches you watching wrestling


----------



## karebear

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT appeals to people who want a serious wrestling product similar to the old days (At least that's what I'm told and what I've seen from the little bit I've watched). They take the in ring stuff seriously, the stories are treated seriously and are realistic and all of the roster look like men.
> 
> AEW appeals to people who want goofy independent style wrestling. Very rarely can you go 20 minutes without some kind of comedy being launched your way and a lot of the roster look like kids or are out of shape.
> 
> NXT is infinitely more appealing and quite frankly cooler to be watching. Imagine trying to explain Marko Stunt or Sonny Kiss to your buddy who happens to come over and catches you watching wrestling



that is basically my point though, attitude era was not about serious old school wrestling and comedy stuff was featured heavily during that time when russo was there so russo's point makes little sense as aew tries to be like a variety show to appeal to a wider audience, why else would they have an ageing mike tyson on there to get attention from casuals?


----------



## One Shed

Russo is so transparent. He points out what anyone can see who is not a cult member, then his answer is always "hire me." Of course he makes sure to throw in the obligatory "I'm not looking for a job" line to try and throw light thinkers off, but of course he would take it. If Russo gets anywhere near AEW, your main eventers are going to be cast members from Real Housewives.


----------



## Metalhead1

I always liked Russo, for the most part. His story lines during the Attitude Era were interesting, engaging, and edgy. 

I just wish he'd be more specific. Which same audience are they catering to? Which audience do they need to go after? What can they specifically do to improve? I have my thoughts on this, but it would be interesting to hear his.


----------



## Blade Runner

The point is valid, but there's an argument to be made that the "mainstream" isn't really a centralized thing anymore. People nowadays have access to so much content that what was once deemed the mainstream is now spread out and dispersed in different forms, on different platforms and encompassing different genres of media. Wrestling is so niche right now that playing to your base isn't necessarily a bad approach. Unless you fit in a category that attracts all demos and marries genres together to make it universally appealing, then chances are that your expansion plans will fail.


The problem is that they're alienating even the core fanbase. There's no way you can convince me that the potential wrestling audience has dwindled down to 500 000 viewers. AEW got 3 times this amount of people that sampled their show when it debuted.

I'd take a guess that a large portion of wrestling fans find gimmicks like Orange Cassidy to be beyond geeky. The audience that sticks around AEW eat it up, but they consist mainly of the meta-minded, pseudo insider fan who believes that they know more about the business than they actually do. Geek culture goes hand-in-hand with shows like BTE where the performers entertain themselves by being self-referral and "beyond" the confines of kayfabe. To guys like The Bucks it's all fake, so screw psychology and let's give our fans an impressive display of overblown acrobatics. Let's think we're being clever by mocking the past with the amount of intentional subtlety found in an Andrew Schulz stand-up routine.

AEW doesn't NEED to be the next cultural phenomenon, but put some effort in your fucking show and _maybe_ you'll get to something resembling a good base.


----------



## shandcraig

Ozell Gray said:


> The viewership was going down even when they had fans in the crowd and WWE's numbers have been dropping since 1999 so thats nothing new.
> 
> 
> 
> Its always been the storylines that drew in wrestling not "5 star matches." Matches draw when you have a big storyline behind it like Hulk Hogan vs Andre the giant, The Rock vs Steve Austin, and Steve Austin vs the Undertaker. Tv 14 really doesn't matter if the product isn't good. It could be tv pg and draw good ratings and viewership because of good storylines so it doesn't necessarily have to be tv 14.


wwe viewers have been dropping since 99 because at the end of 99 is when wwe went public. wwe going public is the number one fundamental reason for its down fall. Many people even that worked for wwe and since left have mentioned how stock holders is a huge problem for its direction and branding. 

And since you have your leading promotion catering to them and the soft generation the real wrestling fans that are nothing like this. And so many have moved on.


----------



## fabi1982

I will be the first one to predict. It will go up to 780 and they will win against NXT and all the fruitful conversation over the last couple of days will get laughed at, because „hey look we dont have a problem“ sadly...


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Lol at the people trying to paint Wood as some kind of racist against white people.*
> 
> He's right, the AEW audience is absolutely filled with white people. Is there anything wrong with that? Kind of. It shows the AEW product isn't really appealing to anyone except dorky looking white people.
> 
> I remember my friend asked me to go with him to a comedy show once and bought the ticket. I didn't know the comic that well and turned up to see like 500 middle aged white people laughing at this old dude and I remember laughing at how white the audience was.


Nope not at all


----------



## TKO Wrestling

fabi1982 said:


> I will be the first one to predict. It will go up to 780 and they will win against NXT and all the fruitful conversation over the last couple of days will get laughed at, because „hey look we dont have a problem“ sadly...


I doubt it. Seems like everytime Raw is down, Dynamite follows.


----------



## Joe Gill

the reality is that casual fans will never return to pro wrestling.... austin, rock, hhh, edge, cena etc were products of the attitude/ruthless agression era where you were allowed to push the envelope. Those days are over and it just recently got a lot worse in terms of what society is willing to tolerate. Imagine the ringmaster steve ausyin trying to get over today with a gimmick change...no way in hell he would be allowed the stone cold gimmick.. same with hhh in dx... even cena would say some pretty crude things when he was the freestyle rapper. Pro wrestling is not allowed to push the envelope anymore..and neither will the hulkamania act of saying your prayers and eating your prayers of the corny 80s get over.
Its over.... ratings will continue to decline and wrestling overall popularity will continue to dwindle.... just enjoy acts like chris jericho while you still can.... soon wrestling will be 100% spotfest for indy fans.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I doubt it. Seems like everytime Raw is down, Dynamite follows.


When you say something like that at least show some data proving your point.


----------



## One Shed

Joe Gill said:


> the reality is that casual fans will never return to pro wrestling.... austin, rock, hhh, edge, cena etc were products of the attitude/ruthless agression era where you were allowed to push the envelope. Those days are over and it just recently got a lot worse in terms of what society is willing to tolerate. Imagine the ringmaster steve ausyin trying to get over today with a gimmick change...no way in hell he would be allowed the stone cold gimmick.. same with hhh in dx... even cena would say some pretty crude things when he was the freestyle rapper. Pro wrestling is not allowed to push the envelope anymore..and neither will the hulkamania act of saying your prayers and eating your prayers of the corny 80s get over.
> Its over.... ratings will continue to decline and wrestling overall popularity will continue to dwindle.... just enjoy acts like chris jericho while you still can.... soon wrestling will be 100% spotfest for indy fans.


"austin, rock, hhh, edge, cena" One of these is not like the others.

So many doom and gloom people on here. Nothing will ever push the envelope again! They would never let Jake Roberts assault Brandi! Oh wait. Many things are cyclical. Right now being woke and treating everyone like ten year old kids is all the rage. There is already push back and it will change again.


----------



## NXT Only

Funniest part of the title is reveals as if Vince fucking Russo has some inside knowledge.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Chip Chipperson said:


> Lol at the people trying to paint Wood as some kind of racist against white people.
> 
> He's right, the AEW audience is absolutely filled with white people. Is there anything wrong with that? Kind of. It shows the AEW product isn't really appealing to anyone except dorky looking white people.
> 
> I remember my friend asked me to go with him to a comedy show once and bought the ticket. I didn't know the comic that well and turned up to see like 500 middle aged white people laughing at this old dude and I remember laughing at how white the audience was.


Considering 3/4ths of Americans are Caucasian this isn't anything groundbreaking.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> When you say something like that at least show some data proving your point.


RAW:
Hour 1 - 1.8 Mil
Hour 2 - 1.7 Mil
Hour 3 - 1.5 Mil

Last week was 1.9. So they lost about 400K live viewers between last week and hour 3 this week. Not that it really matters.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> RAW:
> Hour 1 - 1.8 Mil
> Hour 2 - 1.7 Mil
> Hour 3 - 1.5 Mil
> 
> Last week was 1.9. So they lost about 400K live viewers between last week and hour 3 this week. Not that it really matters.


And that does not show that when RAW is down, Dynamite is also down.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> And that does not show that when RAW is down, Dynamite is also down.


I guess he is saying because RAW is on Monday and AEW Wednesday, if he's talking historically then he is wrong


----------



## The Wood

It seems to be, at maximum, the same 1.5 million people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. You just have to work out what the ratio is going to be. This is definitely the NXT with the most hype since the crossover period last year. I’m going to predict they get 780k with that. That leaves AEW with 720k, but I think it will be slightly below that. I can see them losing 100k over the course of the show, which averages them out at 670k viewers. Which is up from last week, so AEW fans will call it a win.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> I guess he is saying because RAW is on Monday and AEW Wednesday, if he's talking historically then he is wrong


Well is basically said that everytime Raw ratings are down, the following Dynamite ratings are also down.


----------



## The Wood

KYRA BATARA said:


> The point is valid, but there's an argument to be made that the "mainstream" isn't really a centralized thing anymore. People nowadays have access to so much content that what was once deemed the mainstream is now spread out and dispersed in different forms, on different platforms and encompassing different genres of media. Wrestling is so niche right now that playing to your base isn't necessarily a bad approach. Unless you fit in a category that attracts all demos and marries genres together to make it universally appealing, then chances are that your expansion plans will fail.
> 
> 
> The problem is that they're alienating even the core fanbase. There's no way you can convince me that the potential wrestling audience has dwindled down to 500 000 viewers. AEW got 3 times that amount of people that sampled their show when it debuted.
> 
> I'd take a guess that a large portion of wrestling fans find gimmicks like Orange Cassidy to be beyond geeky. The audience that sticks around AEW eat it up, but they consists mainly of the meta-minded, pseudo insider fan who believes that they know more about the business than they actually do. Geek culture goes hand-in-hand with shows like BTE where the performers entertain themselves by being self-referral and "beyond" the confines of kayfabe. To guys like The Bucks, it's all fake so screw psychology and let's give our fans an impressive display of overblown acrobatics. Let's think we're being clever by mocking the past with the amount of intentional subtlety found in an Andrew Schulz stand-up routine.
> 
> AEW doesn't NEED to be the next cultural phenomenon, but put some effort in your fucking show and _maybe_ you'll get to something resembling a good base.


This is an AMAZING post.


----------



## Joe Gill

Lheurch said:


> "austin, rock, hhh, edge, cena" One of these is not like the others.
> 
> So many doom and gloom people on here. Nothing will ever push the envelope again! They would never let Jake Roberts assault Brandi! Oh wait. Many things are cyclical. Right now being woke and treating everyone like ten year old kids is all the rage. There is already push back and it will change again.


no it wont... its not cyclical... social media and smart phones are a paradigm shift... we will never go back to the days of old.... and most of the guys that still to some extent get away with saying or doing some questionable things are the established vets like jericho and roberts. Even Sammy Guevera when he comes back is going to have to tone it down with his flirting and playboy image. Not sure why its so hard for people to face reality


----------



## One Shed

Joe Gill said:


> no it wont... its not cyclical... social media and smart phones are a paradigm shift... we will never go back to the days of old.... and most of the guys that still to some extent get away with saying or doing some questionable things are the established vets like jericho and roberts. Even Sammy Guevera when he comes back is going to have to tone it down with his flirting and playboy image. Not sure why its so hard for people to face reality


It is not about going back to the old days, it is about going forward in new ways. It is going to take a lot of work to change the crazy cancel culture stuff going on now, but there is a lot of push back and objective reality is not represented on Twitter.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> It seems to be, at maximum, the same 1.5 million people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. You just have to work out what the ratio is going to be. This is definitely the NXT with the most hype since the crossover period last year. I’m going to predict they get 780k with that. That leaves AEW with 720k, but I think it will be slightly below that. I can see them losing 100k over the course of the show, which averages them out at 670k viewers. Which is up from last week, so AEW fans will call it a win.


There are only about 3 million live fans left, and probably about 5-7 million U.S based fans in general. I'm gonna say AEW gets 750K with NXT at 720k. They'll win the first 2 hours. For the 3rd hour and Sasha/Io main event, I'm gonna say AEW loses about 100K viewers and drops to 650K. NXT then wins the third hour. Omega or Page turning heel wouldn't happen until the end so I doubt that keeps people on TNT over USA. 



rbl85 said:


> Well is basically said that everytime Raw ratings are down, the following Dynamite ratings are also down.


Yeah that's 100% incorrect then


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> There are only about 3 million live fans left, and probably about 5-7 million U.S based fans in general. I'm gonna say AEW gets 750K with NXT at 720k. They'll win the first 2 hours. For the 3rd hour and Sasha/Io main event, I'm gonna say AEW loses about 100K viewers and drops to 650K. NXT then wins the third hour. Omega or Page turning heel wouldn't happen until the end so I doubt that keeps people on TNT over USA.


Dynamite is 3 hours now ?


----------



## bdon

I can see AEW not winning the ratings war for a while. They let their foot off the gas protecting storylines and all those stupid fucking excuses, and now they find out that momentum is a fickle motherfucker.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Dynamite is 3 hours now ?


I meant Hour 2 they lose


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> Modern day Vince Russo also has a ghost of a reasonable point, but he's always unreasonable about it. Yes, AEW plays only to a very specific audience that is not going to grow and is only going to be so loyal for so long. It's one thing to say "They need to appeal to casuals." How, Russo? He never gets that far. Also, I don't think Russo truly appreciates what made the Attitude era work and what was inconsequential to it.


Russo is a good assistant but should not be the leader and that is what made the AE work. I mean he knows how to book a show but he said it himself that at some point McMahon brought all his writers and production guys and told them "alright from now on, it's Steve Austin 365 days a year" meaning all that they do would be about Austin and nothing else would matter. Russo has written successful shows but at the end of the day the WWF was successful because they had a true leader guiding the ship and making decisions like these. Russo probably would have been more comfortable coming up with storylines for the whole roster, he did that in WCW and it failed. 

Furthermore Russo feels that skits work, not wrestling and that the ratings of "This is You Life" prove that to him. But actually this has not been the best rated segment of Raw in the AE, it was Taker vs Austin for the WWF title. Because while wrestling alone cannot give you good ratings, it's wrestling + a great storyline that does! That's always been this way. Another highly rated segment was Shane, HHH, Taker vs Vince, Rock and Austin. Storyline + wrestling + stars. 

Russo has a great point as far as show format and creativity but you still should have a strong booker that should have a strong vision for his company and knows how to make things successful. Which he didn' have in WCW and that AEW doesn't have. His ideas could help AEW for sure like shorter matches, more promos, more identification of characters. No more Omega the ghost. But to me you have to identify the guys you want to die on a hill with first.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay Monty, he has been a writer of wrestling for 17 years and been in almost every major promotion including WWF, WCW and TNA. What does your resume look like?
> 
> Not trying to be a dick but 17 years in the business working directly in the business of getting ratings makes him an expert wrestling writer and an expert to talk on this topic.


Okay Chip, this might be one of the dumber posts you've ever made. Not trying to be a dick!

Donald Trump has a lifetime of experience in Real Estate and he sucks dick at running a business and has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy many many times. This is the most insane defense of Russo I've ever seen. 17 years in the business? I KNOW you're a Jim Cornette fan and a wrestling fan to at least some extent so surely you must realize the context of that 17 years. He was there during the Attitude Era where there was a murderers row of basically inevitable talent, and he had a few interesting ideas, particularly of the crash TV trashy Jerry Springer "swerve" variety. He then threw a hissy fit over money and feeling unappreciated and he jumped ship to WCW. What happened to WCW under Russos control Chip? How long did WCW last?

He then went to TNA. Surely you've heard Cornette speak at length about his time in TNA? Should I link you to a few videos or are you going to pretend you're suddenly not a big Cornette fan?

It is ABSOLUTELY possible in this life to ride the clout of success and then just fucking FAAAAIL for like a decade until people realize how useless you really are and you fade away. How you can't realize that in FUCKING 2020 IS INSANE.

Vince Russo has NOOOOO business talking about how to be successful in wrestling. It's like asking D&D how to end someone elses books as a TV show.


----------



## DaSlacker

I dislike much of what Russo wrote after the 90's, but man, Raw is War from March 1998 to July 1999 is one of the most addictive television shows I've ever seen. Looking back there are some glaring plot holes but at the time it was must see.

If AEW could just emulate that feelihg they are onto a winner.


----------



## TerraRising

Bro Tony bro hire me bro. Handegg on a pole match bro.


----------



## Blade Runner

DaSlacker said:


> I dislike much of what Russo wrote after the 90's, but man, Raw is War from March 1998 to July 1999 is one of the most addictive television shows I've ever seen. Looking back there are some glaring plot holes but at the time it was must see.
> 
> If AEW could just emulate that feelihg they are onto a winner.


I'll gladly take Mr. Yamagushi-San choppy-chopping pee pees over what AEW has been offering as of late.


----------



## TerraRising

KYRA BATARA said:


> I'll gladly take Mr. Yamagushi-San choppy-chopping pee pees over what AEW has been offering as of late.


Imagine AEW recreating that scene with Nyla.


----------



## Blade Runner

TerraRising said:


> Imagine AEW recreating that scene with Nyla.


Is John Wayne Bobbitt still alive? I'm sure he'd appreciate the paycheck.


----------



## TerraRising

KYRA BATARA said:


> Is John Wayne Bobbitt still alive? I'm sure he'd appreciate the paycheck.


Lorena patented the penis-hacking maneuvre. She gets the check.


----------



## Blade Runner

TerraRising said:


> Lorena patented the penis-hacking maneuvre. She gets the check.


----------



## One Shed

Trent's mom on a pole match confirmed.


----------



## Ordar

AEW's numbers arent increasing purely because people dont want to watch fixed fighting. Its the same as WWE. There is too much variety on TV now, only people who have an interest in wrestling will watch it. There is no such thing as casual fans. No-one watches live TV anymore (expect for REAL sports), everything is on demand and wrestling has not adapted to that.

I personally havent watched a live broadcast of anything that isnt EPL or NFL for around 10 years. My intake for wrestling is via results, and if anything is worth watching then youtub. I'm sure many people are the same.


----------



## DaSlacker

KYRA BATARA said:


> I'll gladly take Mr. Yamagushi-San choppy-chopping pee pees over what AEW has been offering as of late.


Inner Circle peeing on FTR's car and invading Performance Centre
Hangman Page threatening to jump off Daily's Place. Kenny falls off - cue Jericho reference South Park
Scorpio Sky repackaged as a pimp; QT Marshall repackaged as a porn star - he sleeps with Nakasawa's sister
Mr Brodie Lee threatening to, er, marry Tony Khan. Moxley saves him at the ritual

This shit writes itself


----------



## Blade Runner

DaSlacker said:


> Inner Circle peeing on FTR's car and invading Performance Centre
> Hangman Page threatening to jump off Daily's Place. Kenny falls off - cue Jericho reference South Park
> Scorpio Sky repackaged as a pimp; QT Marshall repackaged as a porn star - he sleeps with Nakasawa's sister
> Mr Brodie Lee threatening to, er, marry Tony Khan. Moxley saves him at the ritual
> 
> This shit writes itself


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MontyCora said:


> Okay Chip, this might be one of the dumber posts you've ever made. Not trying to be a dick!
> 
> Donald Trump has a lifetime of experience in Real Estate and he sucks dick at running a business and has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy many many times. This is the most insane defense of Russo I've ever seen. 17 years in the business? I KNOW you're a Jim Cornette fan and a wrestling fan to at least some extent so surely you must realize the context of that 17 years. He was there during the Attitude Era where there was a murderers row of basically inevitable talent, and he had a few interesting ideas, particularly of the crash TV trashy Jerry Springer "swerve" variety. He then threw a hissy fit over money and feeling unappreciated and he jumped ship to WCW. What happened to WCW under Russos control Chip? How long did WCW last?
> 
> He then went to TNA. Surely you've heard Cornette speak at length about his time in TNA? Should I link you to a few videos or are you going to pretend you're suddenly not a big Cornette fan?
> 
> It is ABSOLUTELY possible in this life to ride the clout of success and then just fucking FAAAAIL for like a decade until people realize how useless you really are and you fade away. How you can't realize that in FUCKING 2020 IS INSANE.
> 
> Vince Russo has NOOOOO business talking about how to be successful in wrestling. It's like asking D&D how to end someone elses books as a TV show.


Donald Trump is a billionaire. Like him or not (And I don't want to get into politics) but to acquire that amount of wealth you need to be good at business.

In regards to Russo, yes he's got 17 years writing experience for major television shows in wrestling. He was there when a lot of talent was there but he had the ability to identify that talent (Along with McMahon) and write compelling stories for them. You can have the most talented person in the world but if the content isn't interesting then you're shit out of luck. That's what Russo deserves credit for.

He had a few interesting concepts and many many interesting ideas during his WWF run. I think even you would admit that his time in the WWF was successful and if he had decided to stick around he'd probably have been there for a very long time and praised as the man to beat WCW.

In regards to WCW I like to think that this is the area I'm most well versed in when it comes to my wrestling history because I was super into the time period and have read, listened and watched as much as I can from this time period.

The reality of the situation was that WCW struggled for pretty much all of 1999 with only a few bright spots which is why Eric took a backseat for Nash. They managed to get Russo and Ed Ferrara and paid them 750,000 a year each (Allegedly) to write Nitro and Thunder until 2002. This is the first part where I have to correct you.

- Russo didn't leave because of a hissy fit over money they introduced Smackdown in 1999 and Russo wasn't offered more money to pretty much double his work load. He was making 350-400 thousand a year at that point to write 4 hours of wrestling content a week and produce at live events and he felt that wasn't enough for all of that work which is probably fair enough. He felt that he wasn't cared about and upon telling Vince that his kids never got to see him the response was "Hire a babysitter" which pissed Russo off.

Back to WCW, it was struggling and they signed Russo expecting him to turn things around. Russo has openly admitted that his writing during this time period was bad because WCW officials were pressuring him for instant ratings success whilst Russo knew that it'd take at least a year of consistently good shows to turn it around (Meaning they'd only start getting back in the game in October 2000). WCW officials instantly wanted him to be getting those ratings so he did the only thing he could do which is hot shot booking to try and pop a rating. That's Russo's side of the story whilst Eric's side of the story is that Russo is an idiot so don't think I'm taking sides I'm just giving context here.

My opinion? There probably was a lot of pressure on Russo to get the big ratings because he's only booked like this in WCW and not in the WWF or TNA aftewards but he also is an idiot that doesn't know one massive side of wrestling which limits him. Russo did some good work in WCW 2000 although you're right most of it was shitty.

I'm a big Cornette fan you're right and I've heard the rants about Russo countless times. Russo was a successful TV writer for TNA though. He wrote their highest rated episode ever (And keep in mind he wrote RAW's highest rated episode also) and once he left TNA was wrestling in front of 600 people on PPV within 2-3 years. Russo became the head writer for TNA in 2009 which is considered one of TNA's best years creatively and in ring wise and people often blame Eric and Hulk for ruining TNA when they came in which coincidentally enough was Russo's TNA.

Russo returned as a contributing writer in 2014 sending in ideas via E-Mail. 2014 TNA wasn't my cup of tea but some people were really into TNA at the time.

This post is getting long so I'll end by saying that I don't think Vince Russo would be a good head writer anywhere in 2020 as evidenced by Devotion Championship Wrestling (The indy he's writing for currently on local TV) but I have always said and will stick by saying that having him in the room throwing ideas around as part of a committee wouldn't be a bad idea. I watched him playing TEW a couple of years back and he really seemed to be a guy full of ideas that understood how to format television and have everything work well which is something even AEW can't do right now.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> Donald Trump is a billionaire. Like him or not (And I don't want to get into politics) but to acquire that amount of wealth you need to be good at business.


He didn't acquire that much wealth he inherited almost all of it, and it's heavily debatable if he's worth even one billion. Most economists put him at 500 million or so. He's refusing to release his tax returns, which means either illegal activity, or more likely he's simply not worth what he boasts he's worth. Considering how much be boasts, if he was worth billions he'd flaunt the proof around like a medal.

So, no. You're incorrect. He's not a self-made rich guy who has tremendous business skillz, and it works directly against your point. Especially when he has like four bankruptcies and an endless list of failed schemes to his name. Much like Russo. 

As for Russo, I'll compromise with you and I'll say maybe he's a George Lucas or Dan Akroyd. The guy who just vomits out tons of weird/bad/interesting/odd ideas and more talented people around him are charged with taking those ideas and making them compelling. That's the story of George Lucas's life from Star Wars to Indiana Jones. But I still don't think being good as one person pitching ideas in a writers room makes you qualified to discuss how to turn around ratings. At all. Especially when your style is exactly the kind of white trash television everyone here would be embarrassed to watch.


----------



## sideon

All he said was that they have to grow their fanbase and ya'll want to crucify him, that right there is why AEW will never be legitimate competition for the WWE. Every time someone has the slightest critique of AEW ya'll want to point the finger back at WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MontyCora said:


> As for Russo, I'll compromise with you and I'll say maybe he's a George Lucas or Dan Akroyd. The guy who just vomits out tons of weird/bad/interesting/odd ideas and more talented people around him are charged with taking those ideas and making them compelling. That's the story of George Lucas's life from Star Wars to Indiana Jones. But I still don't think being good as one person pitching ideas in a writers room makes you qualified to discuss how to turn around ratings. At all. Especially when your style is exactly the kind of white trash television everyone here would be embarrassed to watch.


Russo's ideas would totally be over with AEW and it's fans. I've witnessed AEW fans thinking that Best Friends being driven to the ring by Trent's mum is hilarious stuff today. On this forum you had a guy pitching 50 something year old Mike Tyson to win the World Title. Something like a wrestler going off script, frequent title changes, intergender matches and random gimmick matches most weeks would be eaten up by most people on this forum.

I do totally agree with your view though at least the part where he vomits out tons of ideas and either one is eventually usable or someone makes them usable. Does he have the clout to say how to improve ratings? I guess that comes down to simple preference. I think so, you think not.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MontyCora said:


> Okay Chip, this might be one of the dumber posts you've ever made. Not trying to be a dick!
> 
> Donald Trump has a lifetime of experience in Real Estate and he sucks dick at running a business and has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy many many times. This is the most insane defense of Russo I've ever seen. 17 years in the business? I KNOW you're a Jim Cornette fan and a wrestling fan to at least some extent so surely you must realize the context of that 17 years. He was there during the Attitude Era where there was a murderers row of basically inevitable talent, and he had a few interesting ideas, particularly of the crash TV trashy Jerry Springer "swerve" variety. He then threw a hissy fit over money and feeling unappreciated and he jumped ship to WCW. What happened to WCW under Russos control Chip? How long did WCW last?
> 
> He then went to TNA. Surely you've heard Cornette speak at length about his time in TNA? Should I link you to a few videos or are you going to pretend you're suddenly not a big Cornette fan?
> 
> It is ABSOLUTELY possible in this life to ride the clout of success and then just fucking FAAAAIL for like a decade until people realize how useless you really are and you fade away. How you can't realize that in FUCKING 2020 IS INSANE.
> 
> Vince Russo has NOOOOO business talking about how to be successful in wrestling. It's like asking D&D how to end someone elses books as a TV show.


Well about Trump, he has declared bankrupcy but MANY other entrepreneurs have done this and many times. This is the game they play in. It's the big game where "the big boys plays". It's risky but their business parnters trust them cause they know they'll make them more money. Look at Vince, he had gazillion in debt just for the first Wrestlemania. He could lose it all. But it was a success and in one night he got back up. These guys always find a way to get back up and make more money. You can shit on Trump as well as you want and say his businesses failed but he is still a billionaire! And you're not.


----------



## MontyCora

Wolf Mark said:


> Well about Trump, he has declared bankrupcy but MANY other entrepreneurs have done this and many times. This is the game they play in. It's the big game where "the big boys plays". It's risky but their business parnters trust them cause they know they'll make them more money. Look at Vince, he had gazillion in debt just for the first Wrestlemania. He could lose it all. But it was a success and in one night he got back up. These guys always find a way to get back up and make more money. You can shit on Trump as well as you want and say his businesses failed but he is still a billionaire! And you're not.


Once again for the cheap seats!

1) Born into hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm a loser for not being a self-made rich guy? Well. Neither is Trump. 
2) Almost certainly not a billionaire according to many many peer-reviewed and respectable economists who know what they're talking about. It changes if you're talking about liquid assets or the worth of his various business interests in real estate, but no. Not a billionaire.
3) It was actually 6 Chapter 11 bankruptcies, and all 6 were to HIS BUSINESSES. This isn't a Warren Buffett situation where he invests in hundreds and hundreds of other projects and some of those inevitably fail on a numbers game. These were his babies.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> Russo's ideas would totally be over with AEW and it's fans. I've witnessed AEW fans thinking that Best Friends being driven to the ring by Trent's mum is hilarious stuff today. On this forum you had a guy pitching 50 something year old Mike Tyson to win the World Title. Something like a wrestler going off script, frequent title changes, intergender matches and random gimmick matches most weeks would be eaten up by most people on this forum.
> 
> I do totally agree with your view though at least the part where he vomits out tons of ideas and either one is eventually usable or someone makes them usable. Does he have the clout to say how to improve ratings? I guess that comes down to simple preference. I think so, you think not.


But where do you sit on George Lucas? If you defend Crystal Skull I'm punching you in the mouth.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MontyCora said:


> Once again for the cheap seats!
> 
> 1) Born into hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm a loser for not being a self-made rich guy? Well. Neither is Trump.
> 2) Almost certainly not a billionaire according to many many peer-reviewed and respectable economists who know what they're talking about. It changes if you're talking about liquid assets or the worth of his various business interests in real estate, but no. Not a billionaire.
> 3) It was actually 6 Chapter 11 bankruptcies, and all 6 were to HIS BUSINESSES. This isn't a Warren Buffett situation where he invests in hundreds and hundreds of other projects and some of those inevitably fail on a numbers game. These were his babies.


Other "specialists" say otherwise, like he got about 3 Billion. The important thing is: he is fucking rich! lol Also many of these guys are born into wealth and they get bigger. I still think Vince McMahon is a genius BUT never forget he received basically the biggest territory in all wrestling.


----------



## MontyCora

Wolf Mark said:


> Other "specialists" say otherwise, like he got about 3 Billion. The important thing is: he is fucking rich! lol Also many of these guys are born into wealth and they get bigger. I still think Vince McMahon is a genius BUT never forget he received basically the biggest territory in all wrestling.


Links. Cite your sources. Plausible proof. The usual stuff.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MontyCora said:


> Links. Cite your sources. Plausible proof. The usual stuff.


What you don't believe that he is rich? That he doesn't own Trump tower? Cause that was the point of this. You whine that he lost all these businesses, that he is a "failed businessman". He is still rich! Why obssess over stupid shit? To give you weapons to shit on someone you dislike? Find another hobby.


----------



## MontyCora

Wolf Mark said:


> What you don't believe that he is rich? That he doesn't own Trump tower? Cause that was the point of this. You whine that he lost all these businesses, that he is a "failed businessman". He is still rich! Why obssess over stupid shit? To give you weapons to shit on someone you dislike? Find another hobby.


You say he's worth three billion from plausible economists. Prove it. Lemme see! Convince me! You see you accuse me of whining but you can't back up anything you say. The point of this is that like Vince Russo, being successful at something to some degree doesn't actually make you an expert on that thing, and it doesn't mean your opinion is worth taking seriously.

Like yourself for example. I'm not "obsessed" over stupid shit, I'm proving a point. But you're too busy getting butthurt and triggered to even understand the point of what's being said. 

Sit down son, grown-ups are talking and you're just going to get emotional and lost.


----------



## The Wood

This Donald Trump/Vince Russo discussion is pretty irrelevant, especially considering that Russo was just arbitrarily compared to him. Trump's competence or lack thereof doesn't really prove or disprove Russo's one way or another. Let WCW and TNA do that.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MontyCora said:


> You say he's worth three billion from plausible economists. Prove it. Lemme see! Convince me! You see you accuse me of whining but you can't back up anything you say. The point of this is that like Vince Russo, being successful at something to some degree doesn't actually make you an expert on that thing, and it doesn't mean your opinion is worth taking seriously.
> 
> Like yourself for example. I'm not "obsessed" over stupid shit, I'm proving a point. But you're too busy getting butthurt and triggered to even understand the point of what's being said.
> 
> Sit down son, grown-ups are talking and you're just going to get emotional and lost.


I don't give a fuck about the Trump-Russo comparison, I was just talking about your obsession with Trump. And how you cannot sleep at night thinking about him.


----------



## MontyCora

Wolf Mark said:


> I don't give a fuck about the Trump-Russo comparison, I was just talking about your obsession with Trump. And how you cannot sleep at night thinking about him.


What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MontyCora said:


> But where do you sit on George Lucas? If you defend Crystal Skull I'm punching you in the mouth.


It was good. Not awesome but good.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> It was good. Not awesome but good.


----------



## Dark Emperor

It's definitely going to be the most interesting ratings to come out in a while and i'm looking forward to the reactions on here whoever wins.

After being neck and neck for around 3weeks, NXT blew AEW out the water last week. Its very hard to regain all those viewers in one go the following week. However AEW have a special but NXT have one match that even some big AEW fans are interested in.

My predictions is it goes back to neck an neck with each show around 750k+ plus and slight win for NXT. ANything under 700k is a worry for AEW

AEW havd a bigger fanbase and fluctuatate more. It's been a long time since NXT had over 800k whereas AEW got that regularly in past. They need to get those fans to watch again.


----------



## The Wood

I can see AEW winning on the basis that I think a lot of the fans who pay attention to it are aware that it got smashed, so they'd want to show their "loyalty." Like that episode of The Simpsons where Homer wishes Ned's Leftorium would go out of business.


----------



## Aewwe

Losing the main title match doesn't help next week, and the week after (15th) when it has been resheduled for clashes with a UFC card, and the last time UFC was on a Wednesday a month or so ago, both wrestling shows drew significantly lower ratings. I wonder what they put in its place, or whether they just give Janela an extra 5 mins beatdown and extend the other matches a bit. Is Nyla actually in a match, or just making an announcement?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Aewwe said:


> Losing the main title match doesn't help next week, and the week after (15th) when it has been resheduled for clashes with a UFC card, and the last time UFC was on a Wednesday a month or so ago, both wrestling shows drew significantly lower ratings. I wonder what they put in its place, or whether they just give Janela an extra 5 mins beatdown and extend the other matches a bit. Is Nyla actually in a match, or just making an announcement?


They put Private Party vs Omega and Page.


----------



## the_hound

aew has returned the favor and has humiliated nxt, 939k tuned in while nxt did 475k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_hound said:


> aew has returned the favor and has humiliated nxt, 939k tuned in while nxt did 475k


Yyyyeah No - def not gonna happen

700k even stevens

Sasha is a draw

NXT edging number and AEW demo


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yyyyeah No - def not gonna happen
> 
> 700k even stevens
> 
> Sasha is a draw
> 
> NXT edging number and AEW demo


The 50+ demo will be the difference maker and usually the 50+ demo really like the women matches (old pervert XD)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The 50+ demo will be the difference maker and usually the 50+ demo really like the women matches (old pervert XD)


Lol, too true

someone should show them some websites mate

that rating will drop fast


----------



## rbl85

I can't agree with you saying that Sasha is a draw because she's not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW actually do deserve the win this week (Although I haven't watched NXT so maybe NXT was better)

They clearly did put effort in this week so I hope they win.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW actually do deserve the win this week (Although I haven't watched NXT so maybe NXT was better)
> 
> They clearly did put effort in this week so I hope they win.


I don't think they will because i think the difference in 50+ viewers will be too big.

I think they should be happy if they do a way better number than last week (not that hard) and if they also get a 18-49 demo between 0.35 and 0.40.


----------



## rexmundi

Based on last week, I expect NXT to win in total viewers but lose in the demo as they have done for every week save one since the "ratings war"began. 50+ turned out huge for NXT last week and may be even higher because the GAB moniker will be like crack for the older demo.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite




----------



## fabi1982

Its so funny how everyone from the AEW markrooms are lowering the expectations just to be „woooo we killed NXT again“


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Nice. Good rating for both.


----------



## zkorejo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yyyyeah No - def not gonna happen
> 
> 700k even stevens
> 
> Sasha is a draw
> 
> NXT edging number and AEW demo


You got it right! : O


----------



## PavelGaborik

Doing under 800k for a show that was built up for weeks is pretty bad. 

The show was good though so hopefully they can get those numbers up the next two weeks.


----------



## Cube2

these rating's will get really scary low come next month. with the nba coming back.


----------



## Jazminator

Hi. Question, please. The way I read it, NXT outdrew AEW by 44,000 viewers, yet AEW is ranked above NXT. How is that possible? In fact, none of the rankings on the list make sense.


----------



## fabi1982

The thing where AEW needs to worry is that NXT is coming even for the demo win. I think this is the highest NXT demo rating in at least half a year.


----------



## IamMark

Jazminator said:


> Hi. Question, please. The way I read it, NXT outdrew AEW by 44,000 viewers, yet AEW is ranked above NXT. How is that possible? In fact, none of the rankings on the list make sense.


They use the key demo 18-49 years old.


----------



## Prosper

748K live for AEW and 792K live for NXT? Not bad. 



PavelGaborik said:


> Doing under 800k for a show that was built up for weeks is pretty bad.
> 
> The show was good though so hopefully they can get those numbers up the next two weeks.


These are just live TV numbers though, doesn't show the full picture as everyone can't watch live or don't have cable. 

B/R Live streaming service had an additional 325K watchers last night for AEW, so they actually did over 1 million, and the WWE Network I'm sure had a boost with viewers too. NXT probably did like 1 million+ with all of the Network subscribers.


----------



## PavelGaborik

fabi1982 said:


> The thing where AEW needs to worry is that NXT is coming even for the demo win. I think this is the highest NXT demo rating in at least half a year.



I think that AEW should focus on their own rating and not give a shit about what a show on a different network is doing.

#6 in the Demo is quite good but the old timers just don't watch enough to get the total viewers too high.


----------



## zkorejo

Last minute GAB thing worked for NXT to counter FF. I can now see them always doing that for every AEW TV Special.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IamMark said:


> View attachment 88326


Ah, nice rating

called it


----------



## qntntgood

IamMark said:


> They use the key demo 18-49 years old.


Which is why everyone said yesterday aew is in more. Of a position to grown it's audience,then wwe at this point in time. Nxt had more views because this is the audience they already have,they the fifty and older.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> The thing where AEW needs to worry is that NXT is coming even for the demo win. I think this is the highest NXT demo rating in at least half a year.


the problem you have is the WWE has alienated a massive portion of that 18-49 fanbase. You've got people watching AEW just because it isn't WWE. And then you've got people who already watch RAW and SD and adding another 2 hours is simply too much wrestling.


----------



## Jazminator

IamMark said:


> They use the key demo 18-49 years old.


Dang it. I should have figured that out. It’s the very first column.

Thank you!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The real news here is Challenge Total Madness lost quite a few points at the top there

wonder what happened  

Would also be nice to see they ’opinion’ news shows out of the top 5

normally Hannity and Tucker is below 20, propped up by over 50s - but the Shows are thriving these days


----------



## rbl85

More than 50% of NXT viewers are 50+.....


----------



## DaSlacker

I have a feeling NXT will break the 800k mark next week with the title match and Moxley pushed back a week. AEW should be back in front for that.

NXT are really blowing their load though, giving all their big and future big matches away, all the time.


----------



## Swan-San

since when is 700-800k a good rating. 

I thought AEW was meant to be competing with RAW and Smackdown. The "war" with Nxt has distracted everyone. Until it shows signs of growth, there's no point analysing ratings as good as it's been the same since it dropped to this level.


----------



## chronoxiong

NXT wins again this week. One more, for the "good guys." Dont think they can keep it up by giving away big matches though.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> the problem you have is the WWE has alienated a massive portion of that 18-49 fanbase. You've got people watching AEW just because it isn't WWE. And then you've got people who already watch RAW and SD and adding another 2 hours is simply too much wrestling.


But it seems that WWE does a good job to get these people back. AEW cant even get a 0.3 demo with a free tv ppv, when they up until couple month ago got .35+ easily even with the most annoying show.


----------



## rexmundi

Good for both shows. Nice to see AEW recoup their big losses in demo and total viewers last week. Props to NXT for their highest demo in a while and almost 800K viewers. I expect to see NXT increase the viewer gap, especially since AEW lost Mox vs. Cage. We'll see if they can actually win the demo though.


----------



## rbl85

Swan-San said:


> since when is 700-800k a good rating.
> 
> I thought AEW was meant to be competing with RAW and Smackdown. The "war" with Nxt has distracted everyone. Until it shows signs of growth, there's no point analysing ratings as good as it's been the same since it dropped to this level.


I was waiting for a post like that XD

Not surprised by who dit it....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Swan-San said:


> since when is 700-800k a good rating.
> 
> *I thought AEW was meant to be competing with RAW and Smackdown. *The "war" with Nxt has distracted everyone. Until it shows signs of growth, there's no point analysing ratings as good as it's been the same since it dropped to this level.


since when?

you're thinking faaaaar too ahead. AEW will not compete with WWE's top level shows for a good few years [if EVER].


----------



## Christopher Near

DaSlacker said:


> I have a feeling NXT will break the 800k mark next week with the title match and Moxley pushed back a week. AEW should be back in front for that.
> 
> NXT are really blowing their load though, giving all their big and future big matches away, all the time.



They still have stuff to do with kross and lumis. Wish riddle didn't get called up though


----------



## Alright_Mate

Thought both would hit the 800k mark this week, quite surprised neither did.

Expected a bigger jump for NXT, AEW had a solid improvement but still lost.

Looking at the cards right now I’d give AEW the slight edge next week, unless NXT decide to do Asuka/Io vs Bayley/Sasha.


----------



## rbl85

rexmundi said:


> Good for both shows. Nice to see AEW recoup their big losses in demo and total viewers last week. Props to NXT for their highest demo in a while and almost 800K viewers. I expect to see NXT increase the viewer gap, especially since AEW lost Mox vs. Cage. We'll see if they can actually win the demo though.


I don't know, NXT only gained 6k viewers between last week and this week.


----------



## RiverFenix

Aew waved the white flag already for next week by postponing Moxley vs Cage a week and replacing it with Hangman/Omega vs Private Party.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> Thought both would hit the 800k mark this week, quite surprised neither did.
> 
> Expected a bigger jump for NXT, AEW had a solid improvement but still lost.
> 
> Looking at the cards right now I’d give AEW the slight edge next week, *unless NXT decide to do Asuka/Io vs Bayley/Sasha.*


They have to keep some match for whatever special show they're going to do to counter Fight for the Fallen


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Alright_Mate said:


> Thought both would hit the 800k mark this week, quite surprised neither did.
> 
> Expected a bigger jump for NXT, AEW had a solid improvement but still lost.
> 
> Looking at the cards right now I’d give AEW the slight edge next week, unless NXT decide to do Asuka/Io vs Bayley/Sasha.


Position 6 > Position 13

the totals there at the end means nothing

same for all the other shows - hence why Total Challenger is number 1, with only 800k viewers


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> More than 50% of NXT viewers are 50+.....


Thats your only point for two weeks now...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Alright_Mate said:


> Thought both would hit the 800k mark this week, quite surprised neither did.
> 
> Expected a bigger jump for NXT, AEW had a solid improvement but still lost.
> 
> Looking at the cards right now I’d give AEW the slight edge next week, unless NXT decide to do Asuka/Io vs Bayley/Sasha.


"Ten Percent leeway means AEW won" = @The Wood


----------



## shadow_spinner

DaSlacker said:


> NXT are really blowing their load though, giving all their big and future big matches away, all the time.


Not exactly the only big Takeover quality match they are giving away is Lee vs. Cole. The rest are just good matches to stack up an NXT show. Io vs. Sasha yes that is a dream match but only way it was happening was on free TV like this. Guys like Ciampa, Gargano, Kross, Balor aren't even booked yet for the second week, let alone not appearing on the first episode.


----------



## AEW_19

Twitter threads


----------



## shadow_spinner

I also think NXT wins again next week due to the fact the AEW title match not happening and the Lee vs. Cole match being the more appealing match by default now.


----------



## rbl85

shadow_spinner said:


> I also think NXT wins again next week due to the fact the AEW title match not happening and the Lee vs. Cole match being the more appealing match by default now.


Yes but the Lee vs Cole match result was leaked


----------



## qntntgood

Jazminator said:


> Dang it. I should have figured that out. It’s the very first column.
> 
> Thank you!


From what I can see aew smoked in just about every demo except the the fifty and older,wwe has that crowd.aew should go after younger viewers,it's as simple as that.


----------



## TD Stinger

I'll be interested to see how NXT does given they're doing a Double Title match that's been built up to for 3 weeks. The overall card for AEW is stronger next week but I think the hype for that title match will carry the show, one way or another for NXT.


----------



## shadow_spinner

rbl85 said:


> Yes but the Lee vs Cole match result was leaked


I don't think it would matter that much.


----------



## shadow_spinner

People saying "NXT Title vs. Title match got leaked", only way you could know the result is if you actually click on an article and see the result. Why would anyone do it, idk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shadow_spinner said:


> I don't think it would matter that much.


Won’t matter at all

almost like the Foley scenario from years ago

people might just tune in to see the title change for themselves


----------



## rbl85

shadow_spinner said:


> I don't think it would matter that much.


For the peoples who are hesitating between the 2 shows that could matter


----------



## rbl85

shadow_spinner said:


> People saying "NXT Title vs. Title match got leaked", only way you could know the result is if you actually click on an article and see the result. Why would anyone do it, idk.


On twitter sadly you don't have to click on a article.....


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> From what I can see aew smoked in just about every demo except the the fifty and older,wwe has that crowd.aew should go after younger viewers,*it's as simple* as that.


Not really that simple


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> On twitter sadly you don't have to click on a article.....


over 50s are on facebook, not twitter


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> over 50s are on facebook, not twitter


Over 50s does not necessary mean 70+.....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Over 50s does not necessary mean 70+.....


over 50s dont use twitter. 
boomer aka the 50+ love their facebook


----------



## Erik.

And the roller-coaster continues. 

Down one week, up the other. 

Again, wouldn't be surprised if its down again next week.


----------



## rbl85

I think 0.40-0.42 is NXT max in the 50+ demo ( i hope for them)


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> And the roller-coaster continues.
> 
> Down one week, up the other.
> 
> Again, wouldn't be surprised if its down again next week.


They announced puppies so......1M


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> Not really that simple


Okay so should they continue to after the small percentage of fan that are currently watching wwe,because that is the same mistake tna made.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Yes but the Lee vs Cole match result was leaked


Who won


----------



## validreasoning

DaSlacker said:


> NXT are really blowing their load though, giving all their big and future big matches away, all the time.


Lee vs Cole is only big match they have given away and it's clear from tv it's Kross vs Cole that's the ultimate destination for title.


----------



## Erik.

I'm pleased that both are up to be honest 

6,000 for NXT
115,000 for AEW

Yesterdays show for AEW was brilliant so hopefully it can retain, even without a world title match. I haven't seen NXTs show but I heard it was good so if both can also grow next week it'd be great.


----------



## The Wood

Jazminator said:


> Hi. Question, please. The way I read it, NXT outdrew AEW by 44,000 viewers, yet AEW is ranked above NXT. How is that possible? In fact, none of the rankings on the list make sense.


It’s an archaic measuring site that still values the 18-49 demo on cable. If you go to the Nielsen website, they seem much more interested in other demographics — like black viewers, Hispanic viewers, LGBTQ+ viewers, etc. This list is from Showbuzz, and they hsvent 



qntntgood said:


> Which is why everyone said yesterday aew is in more. Of a position to grown it's audience,then wwe at this point in time. Nxt had more views because this is the audience they already have,they the fifty and older.


NXT actually seems to be growing its audience though. Plus, and I cannot stress this enough — the “younger” audience watches, it’s just on DVR or the Network. AEW has been prioritised by them, but don’t make the mistake of thinking there is some young, hip and cool AEW audience, versus some old fogeys with their record players.



rbl85 said:


> More than 50% of NXT viewers are 50+.....


Meltzer did a list of the average age of viewers for 2019 or something. Do you want to guess the average age of the AEW viewer? It was 45. For everyone 35, there is someone 45. For everyone 25, there is someone 65. You’ve also done that thing where you leave out the Network.

These audiences are largely the same. NXT’s is just likely bigger



rbl85 said:


> I was waiting for a post like that XD
> 
> Not surprised by who dit it....


Hey, great well-thought out response. Let’s completely ignore the fact that it’s right — those numbers are shocking for wrestling — and tsk without any explanation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Who won


Not on here - should be in a spoiler thread

won’t be right


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Not on here - should be in a spoiler thread
> 
> won’t be right


I figured it would be a private message. But I stopped being lazy and Googled


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I figured it would be a private message. But I stopped being lazy and Googled


ha! Ok - fair play


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Got to call it a split. NXT wins viewers by a much smaller number but both in top 13 I can't remember the last time that happened. AEW jumped 0.07 in demo up to 0.29 which is solid and NXT went up less than half of that from 0.19 to 0.22

Next week NXT has a shot at their 2nd demo win but unless AEW drops because I can't see NXT drawing 0.30 but maybe I am wrong.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> "Ten Percent leeway means AEW won" = @The Wood


Ten percent margin of error means that AEW could have actually had more viewers. Correct. Someone is finally getting it. 44k is not a strong “victory” at all



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Won’t matter at all
> 
> almost like the Foley scenario from years ago
> 
> people might just tune in to see the title change for themselves


The result wasn’t leaked to me, and can you please edit your post to include spoilers, thanks?

My theory is that a lot of hardcore felt sorry for AEW getting properly slaughtered last week. Without the AEW Title match and with Jericho and Orange Cassidy on the card, I think NXT should probably snag it next week, and after a little while once hardcore fans are tired of putting the effort in to keep propping up AEW.

They’re going to keep doing stupid things and eroding the star power of the talent they have. NXT just has to stay the course. That’s how they ended up with this apparent turnaround. Not by going hard. Let AEW shoot themselves in the foot.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It’s an archaic measuring site that still values the 18-49 demo on cable. If you go to the Nielsen website, they seem much more interested in other demographics — like black viewers, Hispanic viewers, LGBTQ+ viewers, etc. This list is from Showbuzz, and they hsvent
> 
> 
> 
> NXT actually seems to be growing its audience though. Plus, and I cannot stress this enough — the “younger” audience watches, it’s just on DVR or the Network. AEW has been prioritised by them, but don’t make the mistake of thinking there is some young, hip and cool AEW audience, versus some old fogeys with their record players.
> 
> 
> 
> Meltzer did a list of the average age of viewers for 2019 or something. Do you want to guess the average age of the AEW viewer? It was 45. For everyone 35, there is someone 45. For everyone 25, there is someone 65. You’ve also done that thing where you leave out the Network.
> 
> These audiences are largely the same. NXT’s is just likely bigger
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, great well-thought out response. Let’s completely ignore the fact that it’s right — those numbers are shocking for wrestling — and tsk without any explanation.


Still railing against the system! Wonder why there are demos if they're as redundant as you say? Oh wait, you don't know what you are talking about


----------



## Jazminator

I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Ten percent margin of error means that AEW could have actually had more viewers. Correct. Someone is finally getting it. 44k is not a strong “victory” at all
> 
> 
> 
> The result wasn’t leaked to me, and can you please edit your post to include spoilers, thanks?
> 
> My theory is that a lot of hardcore felt sorry for AEW getting properly slaughtered last week. Without the AEW Title match and with Jericho and Orange Cassidy on the card, I think NXT should probably snag it next week, and after a little while once hardcore fans are tired of putting the effort in to keep propping up AEW.
> 
> They’re going to keep doing stupid things and eroding the star power of the talent they have. NXT just has to stay the course. That’s how they ended up with this apparent turnaround. Not by going hard. Let AEW shoot themselves in the foot.


But how do they get ppl under 50 to watch nxt?


----------



## Prosper

It's so funny watching the ratings argument from the outside in being a digital marketer, you guys have no idea lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


because their “preferences” are already set in. Why would advertisers care about promoting Pepsi to an old person who has only ever purchased Coca-Cola for 40+ years?

whereas younger people are less likely to have these preferences and are more likely to try other brands.

how many boomers are going to buy a new car? Realistically.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Has NXT beat AEW by demo wise?


----------



## rbl85

Fearless Viper said:


> Has NXT beat AEW by demo wise?


1 time a few months ago


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> over 50s dont use twitter.
> boomer aka the 50+ love their facebook


Between 50 and 60 right now is Gen X.



Pippen94 said:


> Still railing against the system! Wonder why there are demos if they're as redundant as you say? Oh wait, you don't know what you are talking about


Because it’s fucking Showbuzz. Imagine if you were publishing a paper on the evolution and future prospects for television and your big argument for retaining the same strategies for data interpretation was “Showbuzz still does it that way!”

Breaking down the demos is _somewhat_ useful. It’s nice to know, generally speaking, who you are largely going to be advertising to. As people who have thought about this for more than a minute have realised though: kids could watch at their grandparents’ house. Advertisers would likely do further research past these surface-level breakdowns, which are more like a “who’s dressed best?” entertainment news list. 



Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


AEW fans will take whatever win they can get. And they get salty and mean when they don’t get their way. Every time NXT apparently wins in viewers, the faithful come out and blast NXT viewers for being old, boomers, etc. I think there’s something like ten years age gap between the average AEW live viewer and the average NXT live viewer.

They also never talk about how financial situations within the demos have shifted over the past 20 years. Where is the wealth really situated? Do they really think there is some magic line you cross over where you turn 50, even in 2020, where you stop spending money? What about your children/grandchildren? Do 18-49 year olds still have cable? Why are they still so allegedly desirable?

You won’t see that discussion here, because it takes away from the one area they can consider AEW a success in. It doesn’t matter if that average viewer is 45. It doesn’t matter if advertisers aren’t going after him. It doesn’t matter if cable is no longer the most effective way to reach people in that demo. Don’t question it or “you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

NXT = for boomers
AEW = trend-setters

That is the narrative that has been decided on. Rock the boat and you’re a troll.


----------



## rbl85

Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


The ranking of the shows are made about the 18-49 demo.

A show doing 500K viewers but all of them in the 18-49 demo will be ranked higher than a show with 900K viewers 50+.


----------



## Jazminator

optikk sucks said:


> because their “preferences” are already set in. Why would advertisers care about promoting Pepsi to an old person who has only ever purchased Coca-Cola for 40+ years?
> 
> whereas younger people are less likely to have these preferences and are more likely to try other brands.
> 
> how many boomers are going to buy a new car? Realistically.


That seems like an over generalization, but from a marketing demographic standpoint, I suppose it makes sense.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's so funny watching the ratings argument from the outside in being a digital marketer, you guys have no idea lol.


Do a post on how y'all look at them would be a cool read.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jazminator said:


> That seems like an over generalization, but from a marketing demographic standpoint, I suppose it makes sense.


Ad slot prices are higher for shows which have stronger 18-49 demos. It’s always been like that. I think it’s an out of date method but that’s just the way they do it. Who are we to argue


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> But how do they get ppl under 50 to watch nxt?


They got a few hundred thousand this week, about the same as AEW. They get them to watch on the WWE Network the next day, where they drop $9.99 monthly. 



optikk sucks said:


> because their “preferences” are already set in. Why would advertisers care about promoting Pepsi to an old person who has only ever purchased Coca-Cola for 40+ years?
> 
> whereas younger people are less likely to have these preferences and are more likely to try other brands.
> 
> how many boomers are going to buy a new car? Realistically.


Are you seriously questioning whether 50+ (which is what I assume you mean by “boomer”) would buy new cars? Are you being serious?



optikk sucks said:


> Ad slot prices are higher for shows which have stronger 18-49 demos. It’s always been like that. I think it’s an out of date method but that’s just the way they do it. Who are we to argue


Holy shit, you don’t even believe it yourself.


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> Between 50 and 60 right now is Gen X.
> 
> 
> 
> Because it’s fucking Showbuzz. Imagine if you were publishing a paper on the evolution and future prospects for television and your big argument for retaining the same strategies for data interpretation was “Showbuzz still does it that way!”
> 
> Breaking down the demos is _somewhat_ useful. It’s nice to know, generally speaking, who you are largely going to be advertising to. As people who have thought about this for more than a minute have realised though: kids could watch at their grandparents’ house. Advertisers would likely do further research past these surface-level breakdowns, which are more like a “who’s dressed best?” entertainment news list.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW fans will take whatever win they can get. And they get salty and mean when they don’t get their way. Every time NXT apparently wins in viewers, the faithful come out and blast NXT viewers for being old, boomers, etc. I think there’s something like ten years age gap between the average AEW live viewer and the average NXT live viewer.
> 
> They also never talk about how financial situations within the demos have shifted over the past 20 years. Where is the wealth really situated? Do they really think there is some magic line you cross over where you turn 50, even in 2020, where you stop spending money? What about your children/grandchildren? Do 18-49 year olds still have cable? Why are they still so allegedly desirable?
> 
> You won’t see that discussion here, because it takes away from the one area they can consider AEW a success in. It doesn’t matter if that average viewer is 45. It doesn’t matter if advertisers aren’t going after him. It doesn’t matter if cable is no longer the most effective way to reach people in that demo. Don’t question it or “you don’t know what you’re talking about.”
> 
> NXT = for boomers
> AEW = trend-setters
> 
> That is the narrative that has been decided on. Rock the boat and you’re a troll.



Makes sense. Boomers are softies


----------



## EmbassyForever

Glad both shows gained viewers.
Hopefully the trend continues.

AEW's doing good with key demos, which is important.


----------



## Aewwe

Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


Yeah, I mean they could have their grandkids over which would bode well for the future and all sorts, plus, hypothetically, if NXT did say 5,000,000 views (deliberately using hyperbole for my point), and AEW did 692,000, but 'won the key demo' by the most minimal of margins, it would still be claimed as a 'win' by many, but regardless of whether they were 50 odd, I'd still rather my product was watched by much more, and as a performer, I'd much rather know that I was being watched week in week out by millions more viewers, regardless of age.


----------



## The Wood

A large part of the perceived value in the 18-49 demo 20 years ago was their frivolity. They were known to jump and be hard to pin down. If/when AEW loses them, where are they going to be?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Demo was 60% of Raws, hard to be mad at that if you are TNT. NXT has caught fire, their demo was as low as .13 and now its .22 this week, they got into the top 15 for once, AEW was #6. 

AEW will need to put together several weeks of shows as good as last nights in order to get back over 800k because all of the old fans grew up on the WWE and are very loyal. It will take AEW 20 years to have their own generation if they can last that long.

Khan needs to lay off of the politics, he runs off those old fans with it. But maybe his beliefs are more important than the 50+ demo to him, who knows.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Demo was 60% of Raws, hard to be mad at that if you are TNT. NXT has caught fire, their demo was as low as .13 and now its .22 this week, they got into the top 15 for once, AEW was #6.
> 
> AEW will need to put together several weeks of shows as good as last nights in order to get back over 800k because all of the old fans grew up on the WWE and are very loyal. It will take AEW 20 years to have their own generation if they can last that long.
> 
> Khan needs to lay off of the politics, he runs off those old fans with it. But maybe his beliefs are more important than the 50+ demo to him, who knows.


AEW never had a big 50+ demo, usually it's a bit higher than it was for this week but not by much.


----------



## rbl85

Guys i think tonight i might have the quarters for this week and last week.

You prefer me to put only the quarters of AEW or you prefer to have AEW and NXT ?


----------



## Cube2

rbl85 said:


> Guys i think tonight i might have the quarters for this week and last week.
> 
> You prefer me to put only the quarters of AEW or you prefer to have AEW and NXT ?


both


----------



## bdon

chronoxiong said:


> NXT wins again this week. One more, for the "good guys." Dont think they can keep it up by giving away big matches though.


From what I heard, the Io vs Sasha match was a letdown, as was the show overall, so that might be one of those cases where more people showing up only to be letdown could hurt the product. 



optikk sucks said:


> "Ten Percent leeway means AEW won" = @The Wood


@The Wood, you know you’ve got to laugh at these jokes at this point. We’ve all danced this dance too many times to hate it. Lmao


----------



## rbl85

The woods said it so many times that he have to accept the joke.


----------



## Aewwe

rbl85 said:


> Guys i think tonight i might have the quarters for this week and last week.
> 
> You prefer me to put only the quarters of AEW or you prefer to have AEW and NXT ?


Both please. Those not interested in NXT can imply ignore that part, but there's so much talk of NXT on here anyway, and a lot like a direct comparison, so would be great if you could povide that.


----------



## NXT Only

Two best shows in wrestling coming on at the same is still stupid to me. And then they’re sandwiched between two long times that hold name value.

AEW and NXT shouldn’t be sharing an audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Florida shatters records with over 10,000 new COVID-19 cases in single day


Florida shattered records on Thursday when it reported over 10,000 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase in the state since the pandemic started, according to a Reuters tally.




www.reuters.com





jesus christ


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT Only said:


> Two best shows in wrestling coming on at the same is still stupid to me. And then they’re sandwiched between two long times that hold name value.
> 
> AEW and NXT shouldn’t be sharing an audience.


WWE are not interested in making NXT a genuine third brand. It was never their intention. They put it on USA to take away attention from AEW. If either show, they risk losing their audience and risk looking like losers. Although we could come to 2024 and AEW could move the show after their contract ends. Who knows. We shall see in 4 years


----------



## Erik.

For me, they are only the best shows BECAUSE they are on at the same time.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> From what I heard, the Io vs Sasha match was a letdown, as was the show overall, so that might be one of those cases where more people showing up only to be letdown could hurt the product.
> 
> 
> 
> @The Wood, you know you’ve got to laugh at these jokes at this point. We’ve all danced this dance too many times to hate it. Lmao


In theory, you’re not wrong. I haven’t seen the matches. Was it a letdown because the work was genuinely bad, or was it a letdown because it wasn’t Toyota vs. Inoue? A comparison I will use is AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura at WrestleMania 34. I loved that match. Not an all-time classic or anything, but people kept using this lofty standard of their New Japan match to weigh it down. There’s a very good chance it got over to a larger number of people who have never seen that match and don’t have those expectations though (including Vince McMahon).

If Io vs. Sasha turned people off, so be it. I’m not the biggest Banks fan in the world, honestly. But I wouldn’t trust the internet on that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol at Chris

He knows what he’s doing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278800960618364931


----------



## The Wood

He should probably keep his mouth shut. It’s not the only thing that matters and joking or not, it’s more of that talking out of school attitude from the company which doesn’t make them look like babyfaces.


----------



## rbl85

Jericho is such a troll XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I believe Jericho

Jericho is always right 🤷‍♂️


----------



## The Wood

These guys should spend more time working in front of the camera and less time behind it. That's some real WCW "working the boys" stuff.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I believe Jericho
> 
> Jericho is always right 🤷‍♂️


Well on a business standpoint he is right


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Well on a business standpoint he is right


yup, i actually agree with it - demo is all that matters

said it many times

i’m just lol-ing, as now, everytime this argument comes up I can just go Jericho > Your opinion


----------



## Dark Emperor

What i'm curious about is how is NXT gaining viewers during a pandemic and no crowd shows. The shows must be really good and engaging to maintain the audience.

Percentage wise Raw, Smackdown & AEW have dropped more than 20% since then. HHH doing a good job.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> What i'm curious about is how is NXT gaining viewers during a pandemic and no crowd shows. The shows must be really good and engaging to maintain the audience.
> 
> Percentage wise Raw, Smackdown & AEW have dropped more than 20% since then. HHH doing a good job.


I think more 50+ viewers of RAW or SDL decided to give a go to NXT


----------



## The Wood

Jesus Christ, he's not right. Do you know that there are companies that angle themselves towards an older demographic? How many Nike shoes do you think these 45-year-old white men are buying? Yes, a real company is going to see the demo break-downs from Showbuzz and decide that they are definitely going to invest money based on 200k people in the 18-49 demographic, most of whom would get your product under if they were caught using it automatically without any further research. 

At this point, anyone who takes the ratings that seriously is like a seagull fighting over a single chip when there's a truckload dumped down the beach.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Jesus Christ, he's not right. Do you know that there are companies that angle themselves towards an older demographic? How many Nike shoes do you think these 45-year-old white men are buying? Yes, a real company is going to see the demo break-downs from Showbuzz and decide that they are definitely going to invest money based on 200k people in the 18-49 demographic, most of whom would get your product under if they were caught using it automatically without any further research.
> 
> *At this point, anyone who takes the ratings that seriously* is like a seagull fighting over a single chip when there's a truckload dumped down the beach.


You know if i had the right to do 1 thing on this forum it will be to delete and ban the ratings threads.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> In theory, you’re not wrong. I haven’t seen the matches. Was it a letdown because the work was genuinely bad, or was it a letdown because it wasn’t Toyota vs. Inoue? A comparison I will use is AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura at WrestleMania 34. I loved that match. Not an all-time classic or anything, but people kept using this lofty standard of their New Japan match to weigh it down. There’s a very good chance it got over to a larger number of people who have never seen that match and don’t have those expectations though (including Vince McMahon).
> 
> If Io vs. Sasha turned people off, so be it. I’m not the biggest Banks fan in the world, honestly. But I wouldn’t trust the internet on that.


Just wanted to say that AJ vs Nakamura is also a match that I really love. Not some all time classic but a really good match.


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Wood said:


> Jesus Christ, he's not right. Do you know that there are companies that angle themselves towards an older demographic? How many Nike shoes do you think these 45-year-old white men are buying? Yes, a real company is going to see the demo break-downs from Showbuzz and decide that they are definitely going to invest money based on 200k people in the 18-49 demographic, most of whom would get your product under if they were caught using it automatically without any further research.
> 
> At this point, anyone who takes the ratings that seriously is like a seagull fighting over a single chip when there's a truckload dumped down the beach.


The only time demo became relevant in this forum was last year when AEW finally lost once to NXT. What's funny is Raw was always top demo on Monday nights for years when MNF was not on and everyone was calling it a disaster as they were losing overall viewers and said their next TV contract would be lower.

But suddenly the demos is now the most meaningful. This is carefully spun by the unbiased Meltzer and now the wrestlers and fans are getting in on the act.

It's pretty sad for a legend like Jericho to be so insecure about losing viewership to NXT, he had to post about the demo. This is Chris Freaking Jericho, he's above this. If he's embarrassed about the rating then they should improve the product!


----------



## TD Stinger

I enjoy the ratings battle here and there to see the chaos and to see how certain quarters match up with each other.

But at the same time I realize we're talking about shows that will range from 600k to 800k most weeks so the idea of this being some great wrestling "war" is kind of hilarious and the amount of venom and toxicity you'll see from fans on social media is also hilarious but at times frightening.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> The only time demo became relevant in this forum was last year when AEW finally lost once to NXT. What's funny is Raw was always top demo on Monday nights for years when MNF was not on and everyone was calling it a disaster as they were losing overall viewers and said their next TV contract would be lower.
> 
> But suddenly the demos is now the most meaningful. This is carefully spun by the unbiased Meltzer and now the wrestlers and fans are getting in on the act.
> 
> It's pretty sad for a legend like Jericho to be so insecure about losing viewership to NXT, he had to post about the demo. This is Chris Freaking Jericho, he's above this.* If he's embarrassed about the rating then they should improve the product!*


If you follow Jericho twitter, you'll know that he made this tweet just to troll.

Also you can't compare RAW or SDL with AEW because the expectations of USA and FOX were much higher than the ones of TNT.

For the moment AEW is surpassing the expectations of TNT while RAW and SDL are below or way below those expectations.


----------



## Klitschko

As an AEW fan, this is a shit rating in my opinion. This is a free tv ppv. I really expected more then 800k. Its kind of scary that this is the best they could get with a stacked card. It means that 600k to 750k is the new normal. If this keeps up then in a few months we will be saying how happy we are with them getting 550-650k.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Jesus Christ, he's not right. Do you know that there are companies that angle themselves towards an older demographic? How many Nike shoes do you think these 45-year-old white men are buying? Yes, a real company is going to see the demo break-downs from Showbuzz and decide that they are definitely going to invest money based on 200k people in the 18-49 demographic, most of whom would get your product under if they were caught using it automatically without any further research.
> 
> At this point, anyone who takes the ratings that seriously is like a seagull fighting over a single chip when there's a truckload dumped down the beach.


aew aim to be high up in the ratings charts, that’s what they get paid on, it’s that simple. They’ve been in it every week, they are successful so far, it’s that simple.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> If you follow Jericho twitter, you'll know that he made this tweet just to troll.


He used the same excuse when his segment lost to Sasha & Bailey 2weeks back. He may laugh it off as trolling but its bothering him NXT is doing well.

Remember AEW first ever show when they killed NXT and WWE put out that silly quote about marathon not a sprint? At the time Jericho dismissed it as them being upset they got killed. He sed he doesn't even have to look at the number to know AEW killed them. 

Now the same dude is studying key demos 9months later after they have lost 50% of that audience.


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> I enjoy the ratings battle here and there to see the chaos and to see how certain quarters match up with each other.
> 
> But at the same time I realize we're talking about shows that will range from 600k to 800k most weeks so the idea of this being some great wrestling "war" is kind of hilarious and the amount of venom and toxicity you'll see from fans on social media is also hilarious but at times frightening.


The war is more between the fans than it really is between the 2 shows.


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> Lee vs Cole is only big match they have given away and it's clear from tv it's Kross vs Cole that's the ultimate destination for title.


In all honesty I don't watch it often. But reading the results since it moved to USA, they've booked:

Cole/Balor, Cole/Dream, Ciampa/Gargano, Ciampa/Balor, Ripley/Shirai, Ripley/Lynch, Ripley/Bazler, Shirai/Charlotte. Plus, several big triple threat or tag matches. In addition to putting Grimes, Scott and Lumis in 50/50 losing efforts. Kross is definitely being protected. Whether any of this actually matters is another question, I will admit. 

It just all feels kinda upside down.The best show, which is the only WWE show to feel different, is the dev brand. But it's stuck stalemate in the battle for 1.5 viewers each Wednesday. The dev brand is filled with 35 year old and more Best of the Indies than experimentalism and character building. Then they go to Raw or Smackdown, 9/10 cooling completely.


----------



## rbl85

I think it would be a nice experiment if for 1 month this thread was blocked.


----------



## Dark Emperor

DaSlacker said:


> In all honesty I don't watch it often. But reading the results since it moved to USA, they've booked:
> 
> Cole/Balor, Cole/Dream, Ciampa/Gargano, Ciampa/Balor, Ripley/Shirai, Ripley/Lynch, Ripley/Bazler, Shirai/Charlotte. Plus, several big triple threat or tag matches. In addition to putting Grimes, Scott and Lumis in 50/50 losing efforts. Kross is definitely being protected. Whether any of this actually matters is another question, I will admit.


What you forget about those so called big matches you think they've given away is that most wrestlers are on NXT for 2years max. Then they move to main roster. They have a limited window to do all these matches. There is still so many matches they can do. They also have only 5 or 6 specials a year. These are all on the network so its not priority to save every big match as they aint reliant on $50 PPV money.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I think we can say one thing, anyone who thinks wwe aren’t just using nxt to try and bury aew is wrong. Using the great American bash to counter it wasn’t a coincidence.
Wwe are basically like WCW at this point.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> because their “preferences” are already set in. Why would advertisers care about promoting Pepsi to an old person who has only ever purchased Coca-Cola for 40+ years?
> 
> whereas younger people are less likely to have these preferences and are more likely to try other brands.
> 
> how many boomers are going to buy a new car? Realistically.


People have made most of these decisions by around 25 anyway. If this was legitimate reasoning the demo wouldn't be so large. 50+ year olds are going back to university and retraining and doing things that were unheard of 20 years ago when this bullshit ratings system was relevant.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yup, i actually agree with it - demo is all that matters
> 
> said it many times
> 
> i’m just lol-ing, as now, everytime this argument comes up I can just go Jericho > Your opinion


All that matters is if the show is good. Demo, ratings, the system they use to measure viewership. None of these things actually matter at all.


----------



## Hephaesteus

bdon said:


> From what I heard, the Io vs Sasha match was a letdown, as was the show overall, so that might be one of those cases where more people showing up only to be letdown could hurt the product.


If someone was letdown by that match with such little time to prepare than they set their sites way too high. Good luck to any fan being satisfied with such expectations. Probs wont stick around for AEW either since I doubt theres any match that will be able to meet said people's high standards.


----------



## iarwain

Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


Because we're cheap. 
Also, we can't buy soda, junk food, or fast food because it makes us fat.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> In theory, you’re not wrong. I haven’t seen the matches. Was it a letdown because the work was genuinely bad, or was it a letdown because it wasn’t Toyota vs. Inoue? A comparison I will use is AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura at WrestleMania 34. I loved that match. Not an all-time classic or anything, but people kept using this lofty standard of their New Japan match to weigh it down. There’s a very good chance it got over to a larger number of people who have never seen that match and don’t have those expectations though (including Vince McMahon).
> 
> If Io vs. Sasha turned people off, so be it. I’m not the biggest Banks fan in the world, honestly. But I wouldn’t trust the internet on that.


Totally true, and you know me. I don’t watch NXT, WWE, any of it. Never have really.

Was just pointing out that many of the fans on the net, along with my one or two close friends in the real world, were grumbling that they expected more.

But as I always say, Wednesday night is slowly creeping into the night where the most fans show up. Raw just done 1.7 million viewers, and Wednesday’s combined numbers are roughly 1.5 million.

For ME, this shows that there is absolutely a subset of fans who are dying for a product that doesn’t have Vince’s stupid fucking hands all over it. my concern, despite never watching NXT, is that Vince looks at these numbers as I am currently doing, and decides that it is time for him to put his 2 cents into NXT, shoving his BS ideas onto the card in an effort to control the Wednesday night narrative.

Hate that motherfucker. More than even Cody or Matt Hardy. Hah!


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> AEW never had a big 50+ demo, usually it's a bit higher than it was for this week but not by much.


Yep even when Dynamite did 1.4 million viewers. They still did a 50+ number was lower then what NXT had the last two weeks. 

Wrestling fans talk debate way too much about total viewership. When that's really the most meaningless thing about the rating number. It's just number dirt sheets report in headlines and easier for people to understand. 

Overall this rating this week is solid. But not because of viewership but more for demo. Since they were 6th in 18-49 and tied for 4th in 18-34. Both very good but still below their Double or Nothing fall out show that did .32 in 18-49 and .17 in 18-34. But this was closest to that at .29 and .15.


Now keep in mind from October 30th-March 25th were averaging around .35 in 18-49. That's what they got tv contract based on. So Pandemic and lack of excitement with no live crowd has chased some young viewers away. Which I'm sure networks understand and AEW still top performing show most weeks. And don't have the more loyal older crowd to fall back on in viewership. Which the network wouldn't want them to change style to get older guys anyways.


----------



## Ger

I am no friend of Russo, but he was in this business for years, while other experts of the AEW section in this forum (i.e., uncle Dave) were just looking from outside. Vince and Dave are same age btw, so I don`t get why Dave`s opinion counts and Russo`s doesn`t count because of his age. He got a point with AEW looking at a key audience. Btw, why not? The AEW starting numbers, out of nowhere, where pretty good. Ofc some viewers were just there for curiosity in the beginning. If the network and TK are happy with the numbers, they can go on with the way they are doing it.

I am not so sure about changing so much to get a different audience. Especially not, if it just turns out to be a WWE copy or using their leftovers to make a program. A stable long term program with the key audience makes sense, especially when TK loses interest and leaves the company to itself some day.


----------



## bdon

@prosperwithdeen will you share your thoughts on what the ratings mean and all that? Genuinely curious.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Yep even when Dynamite did 1.4 million viewers. They still did a 50+ number was lower then what NXT had the last two weeks.
> 
> Wrestling fans talk debate way too much about total viewership. When that's really the most meaningless thing about the rating number. It's just number dirt sheets report in headlines and easier for people to understand.
> 
> Overall this rating this week is solid. But not because of viewership but more for demo. Since they were 6th in 18-49 and tied for 4th in 18-34. Both very good but still below their Double or Nothing fall out show that did .32 in 18-49 and .17 in 18-34. But this was closest to that at .29 and .15.
> 
> 
> Now keep in mind from October 30th-March 25th were averaging around .35 in 18-49. That's what they got tv contract based on. So Pandemic and lack of excitement with no live crowd has chased some young viewers away. Which I'm sure networks understand and AEW still top performing show most weeks. And don't have the more loyal older crowd to fall back on in viewership. Which the network wouldn't want them to change style to get older guys anyways.


AEW needs to find a way to attract women viewers because last night they had the 2nd best men 18-49demo.


----------



## rbl85

Guys i will give you the numbers for the quarters tomorrow because the wrestling observer newsletter is still not out and it's 3am in France.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Ayyyye. It went up. Like I said last time. 

The way I see it AEW is still doing good.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> Florida shatters records with over 10,000 new COVID-19 cases in single day
> 
> 
> Florida shattered records on Thursday when it reported over 10,000 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase in the state since the pandemic started, according to a Reuters tally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jesus christ


Bro in Alabama people are having Coronavirus parties and betting money as to who gets the virus first. In FL, you have people shoulder to shoulder at bars and on beaches without masks. People are fuckin stupid that's why the numbers keep going up. The only silver lining is that if the cases keep going up this way, then the mortality rate will be drastically lower than we thought. But its not worth running around not caring about anyone but yourself. I love my country of America but we are a bunch of entitled idiots.



RapShepard said:


> Do a post on how y'all look at them would be a cool read.





bdon said:


> @prosperwithdeen will you share your thoughts on what the ratings mean and all that? Genuinely curious.


Sure. This will be pretty lengthy but you guys tempted me so here it is. First off, live TV ratings are not an indicator of general interest in the product. Which is what I find chuckle-worthy when I read these threads.

TV ratings are based on statistical sampling and are not an accurate representation of everyone who is watching. There are roughly 120-150 million TV households in the United States and only a portion of them are reported for each TV segment, whether its news, sports, TV series, movies etc. So the numbers reported are just an estimate on the viewing habits of the entire live wrestling audience.

For the last 10 years, live TV audience numbers have eroded and networks have been re-allocating TV ad budgets into digital advertising. My company has done the same, much like everyone else's for the most part. The whole reason ratings even exist is to help networks determine how much to charge for ad time, but those metrics are becoming more and more irrelevant each year. 

To see people freaking out here and in the WWE section, saying that AEW, NXT, RAW, and SD are dying is funny to read because it's coming from people who are not in my world lol. For instance, this week, Dynamite did 742K live TV viewers, but no one is considering the B/R Streaming platform that did 325K live viewers, because they don't know to. They're also not considering the replay. In reality, the live "legal viewing" audience of Dynamite this week was around 1.1 million. NXT was higher as well because a portion of their viewers were on the WWE Network. An educated guess would say that they were around a million as well, as far as "legal" viewers. And that's just a part of it because you have the "illegal audience" which probably makes up about 60% of the entire audience.

Ratings matter to the TV networks as far as ad revenue, but fans wrongly look at weekly live TV ratings as an indicator of the interest of the fans in 2020. "RAW drew a 1.7 they're dead priogbfPENRFF", "AEW lost to NXT their a flope !onunraf'e" 😂Times have drastically changed and people have developed into online viewing for their weekly wrestling. For example, the streaming site "watchwr***linguno" (sorry mods) gets 5-6 million views every 3 weeks. MILLION. The WWE section of "VIPBox" does hundreds of thousands a month. AEW section of watchwr***linguno does hundreds of thousands to millions every couple of weeks. The number was higher prior to the no-crowd shows, which makes sense because some people decided they didn't want to watch wrestling in that lifeless manner. There are *tens and tens of streaming sites *like that which generate hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers per month. The wrestling audience is there, they're just not on cable TV. And can you blame them? I haven't watched a single episode of Dynamite on cable TV and I'm one of their biggest hardcores. Some are people that want to watch the show again, some are watching for the first time because they missed it live, some are curious, some are wandering into the AEW streaming section from the WWE side, etc. I know this because in my line of work in DM there are applications, subscriptions and tools that give you this information. I also run paid traffic via pay per click advertising and banner ads. It's funny coming from my world when I see people saying that "AEW chased off half of their audience" lol nah, the reality is that some of those people were curious and part of WWE and AEW's shared audience, and the other half probably weren't interested in the first place or decided to watch online instead. Most likely the latter because all the data is right in front of me lol.

And that's not even all. You have replays on TNT and B/R. Replays on streaming sites broken up into 5-10 parts and uploaded on "dummy" sites that present "content" completely irrelevant to wrestling just so they can have their video player in the middle. You have downloads which are a whole other beast I won't even get into. Tablet is not accounted for. You have mobile viewers that are not accounted for. @bdon you said you were watching on your phone last night right? Your view and the other thousands who watched on their phone are not accounted for. You also have DVR and Youtube, which continue to get strong numbers for both companies. There's so much missing in these ratings. I run an e-commerce store (www.iwantdatnow.com, *don't buy anything my merchant processor is not on and most products have been taken down lol*) and 80% of my buyers were on mobile. Meaning that people are on their phones a shitload, which you all already know.

People are online watching streams and replays of the show, because let's face it, everyone can't watch the shows live, which is something a lot of people like to ignore when they argue. People have lives and other things to do. If I were to take an educated guess on the actual weekly audience, AEW and NXT are both doing about 2 - 2.2 million+ viewers weekly. RAW and SD are probably doing 4 - 5 million+ weekly. They have a larger audience who have been loyal to the product for 30+ years. But there's no way to prove that or even monetize it because everyone is on the illegal live streaming sites watching all the shows bouncing from one section to another. This is why RAW is getting 1.7 on the live TV rating reportings every week, but still have 80 million Youtube subscribers and one of the most engagement-heavy social media accounts today with their sections of illegal streaming sites getting millions of viewers per month. If the actual audience for these shows were all under 2 million, there is no way that arenas would be sold out every night, every year. Think about it. The numbers don't add up. These kinds of numbers wouldn't fly 10 years ago when digital streaming wasn't so prevalent. Ratings were going down over the years at the same time that things were moving online, so it became more and more acceptable for shows to be doing under 2 million live viewers, when they were doing 5 million before, because networks started to notice the trend and started re-thinking their strategy.

But to the TV networks, they see the ratings as more and more lost ad revenue for them, which is why you sometimes get articles with negative connotations. But to the fan, it shouldn't mean a thing in 2020. As low as WWE's ratings have been, they are still poised to make a huge profit this year. Because the fan interest is still there at live shows and 60-70% of their income comes from the TV rights that they cut with TV networks, who want weekly programming that is guaranteed. With a TV series, it'll either be canceled, be on break between seasons, or be close to its series finale. Then the network is left with nothing except the hope that another TV series that's just as hot comes along and draws people in to look at their ads.

For the most part when looking at ratings, these networks are expecting a baseline number that they can be comfortable in getting every week. Guaranteed ad revenue. With RAW, is probably around 2 - 2.4 million viewers, with SD, it's probably about 2.6 - 3 million being that they are on FOX which is a much larger network, and with AEW and NXT, its probably at about 1 million. They want consistent weekly live sports because they know there will always be a baseline of fans that come back to view their ads. This is why you had TNT give AEW a five-year deal when they were only doing 800K. How many TV series last 5+ years? TNT is getting the ad revenue they want from AEW while their other shows are getting canceled left and right so they are happy. Same reason why RAW and SD were able to get billion-dollar network deals despite the fact that their live ratings have been dropping. How many shows last as long as RAW has? With TV series it's different because 80% of them get canceled within the first couple of seasons. Wrestling is always on 52 weeks a year regardless, which makes it attractive to networks if the foundational fan base is there, which has been the case with TNA, WWE, and AEW.

Me personally, I ONLY talk about ratings within the parameters in which they should be discussed. There are 2 parameters that matter with live TV ratings. Ad revenue and segment to segment gains/losses. Both which are metrics that only TV execs should concern themselves with honestly. But segment to segment for the live cable people is intriguing. Even then, it's impossible to really know how many people are really watching. Because as said before, they use sampling to guess what the majority is doing. And we all know that can never be accurate.

It's fun to talk about ratings when determining who's drawing with the live audience segment to segment and who isn't, but those gains and losses do not indicate or show the entire picture as to fan interest. Which is why most ratings talk is useless unless you talk about it from the POV of looking at demos. It's also good to look at segment gains when you're looking to see how over a talent is with the live sampled audience, but social media does that well enough these days too. Britt Baker is getting pushed mostly because people love her on social media and because her live crowd reactions are fire, despite the fact that her segments have turned away live cable viewers. The reality is that a lot of those people who love her have been getting their fix through streams, then going on social media to praise her for her segments. Orange Cassidy is losing cable viewers but his engagement rates online are high as shit and people also love him on social media. Just because he lost viewers in the 3rd quarter doesn't mean that the fan interest isn't there, especially when these weekly numbers are only based on a sampling and streaming sites are getting 5 million hits each per month.

Ratings still matter greatly from the POV of ad revenue, so they can't drop TOO low for the sake of the advertiser, but they don't gauge general interest in the product anymore. That was 10-15 years ago. The determinants and indicators of success in 2020 are social media engagement, live show sellouts, and PPV buys. AEW is doing great right now. But at the same time, If WWE COMPLETELY fixed their product from the ground up, and took Vince off of the hot seat, got rid of the network, and offered their PPV's at $50, they would wreck AEW in buys, because they have been establishing their fan base since the 90's. As it stands now though, their PPV's are not even worth the $10, which is sad af. Both shows would make a killing if you couldn't illegally stream PPV's online in crystal clear quality. DON2 did 120K buys, which is already a good number, but how much more would they have done if the other hundreds of thousands of people weren't illegally streaming the PPV? How many subscriptions to the WWE Network would WWE have if people weren't streaming their shows by the millions? 

The real ratings war here that MJF alluded to last night is really just a war as to which network can make the most money in advertising. TNT or USA. MJF said it for the "Oh shit he's dropping a pipe bomb" moment lol, but the reality is that the real competition is to see who can steal the LIVE audience segment to segment. Its also about the demo more than anything. Jericho made a tweet earlier stating that they were #6 in the 18-49 demo and that that was all that mattered to advertisers. He is correct in saying that because that win in the demo means that they are winning over the younger audience on TV which correlates to online. Who's mostly online? The younger audience. If they are winning the younger audience, then if you look at the big picture that means that fan interest online, where it really matters, is growing. As long as their buy rates remain high, then they're completely fine whether they lose one week or not.

So all in all, the majority of the wrestling audience is not watching cable TV. Most of them don't even have cable. AEW's demo is the younger audience, how many people do you know in your personal life under the age of 30 who still watch cable? They are on Netflix or any other streaming service. Talking about ratings is great if you want to see which segments are stealing viewers from the live sample, and in seeing which talent is becoming a draw in real-time. It was fun to see that Sasha Banks single-handedly destroyed Jericho in the final quarter. But other than that kind of discussion, all other ratings talk is useless. 

Holy shit that was a long post. Never again lol. @RapShepard @bdon



bdon said:


> Totally true, and you know me. I don’t watch NXT, WWE, any of it. Never have really.
> 
> Was just pointing out that many of the fans on the net, along with my one or two close friends in the real world, were grumbling that they expected more.
> 
> But as I always say, Wednesday night is slowly creeping into the night where the most fans show up. Raw just done 1.7 million viewers, and Wednesday’s combined numbers are roughly 1.5 million.
> 
> For ME, this shows that there is absolutely a subset of fans who are dying for a product that doesn’t have Vince’s stupid fucking hands all over it. my concern, despite never watching NXT, is that Vince looks at these numbers as I am currently doing, and decides that it is time for him to put his 2 cents into NXT, shoving his BS ideas onto the card in an effort to control the Wednesday night narrative.
> 
> Hate that motherfucker. More than even Cody or Matt Hardy. Hah!


Sasha vs Io may have disappointed some because they didn't have the time to prepare for the match. I'd still give it ****1/4 stars. WWE threw it away and gave them a week of build because they wanted to win the live cable audience. This should have been a full-blown storyline with no fuckery. They still killed it though for a TV match. Give them a PPV match with no interference and a storyline/title on the line and these 2 will burn the house down.

It has also been reported already that Vince is playing more of a role in NXT, so your assumption is correct.



rbl85 said:


> AEW needs to find a way to attract women viewers because last night they had the 2nd best men 18-49demo.


That's what the puppies battle royal is for lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> NXT are really blowing their load though, giving all their big and future big matches away, all the time.


Because AEW never gives their big matches away, lol.



optikk sucks said:


> since when?
> 
> you're thinking faaaaar too ahead. AEW will not compete with WWE's top level shows for a good few years [if EVER].


Many people were predicting that AEW would be beating Smackdown at this point.




Jazminator said:


> I don’t get the bias against the 50+ age group. They probably have more money than any other age group. They matter, too.


The people here don't like the 50+ age group because the 50+ age group is the one NXT wins every week. If 50+ was AEW winning every week you'd see arguments as to how important the 50+ is because they've got kids who are all grown up and at their highest earning potential and all of that.

It's just a game every week. The AEW loyalists will spin whatever they can to make AEW look good.



The Wood said:


> He should probably keep his mouth shut. It’s not the only thing that matters and joking or not, it’s more of that talking out of school attitude from the company which doesn’t make them look like babyfaces.


Yeah, makes him come off as awful and arrogant. Imagine being Chris Jericho who was there at the peak of WWE to now be bragging about wrestling in front of well under a million people and being competitive with the demographic of WWE's development league. Oof.



bdon said:


> @prosperwithdeen will you share your thoughts on what the ratings mean and all that? Genuinely curious.


I'm not in marketing but studied media and to be honest ratings don't really matter as much as social media presence these days. Someone with 2 million followers actively engaging with them and their content means much more than a show doing 800k. General consensus is that people tune out during commercials (Hence the picture in picture stuff wrestling companies try to do now) and channel surf so wilst 800,000 might be watching your ad might only reach half that.

As opposed to a popular social media influencer or YouTuber who might do a 90 second endorsement for you before their video that you know their audience is listening to.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> The way I see it AEW is still doing good.


They've promoted this show for like 4-6 weeks and putting every major star they have available on it and they lost to NXT and couldn't even hit 800,000 people.

How is that doing good?


----------



## kingfrass44

Ordar said:


> AEW's numbers arent increasing purely because people dont want to watch fixed fighting. Its the same as WWE. There is too much variety on TV now, only people who have an interest in wrestling will watch it. There is no such thing as casual fans. No-one watches live TV anymore (expect for REAL sports), everything is on demand and wrestling has not adapted to that.
> 
> I personally havent watched a live broadcast of anything that isnt EPL or NFL for around 10 years. My intake for wrestling is via results, and if anything is worth watching then youtub. I'm sure many people are the same.


!!No-one watches live TV anymore (expect for REAL sports) !!!
There are programs that have more than 3 million
You wrong
Is there evidence? There is no such thing as casual fans
Stop considering your opinion facts
You are a hard fan


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Bro in Alabama people are having Coronavirus parties and betting money as to who gets the virus first. In FL, you have people shoulder to shoulder at bars and on beaches without masks. People are fuckin stupid that's why the numbers keep going up. The only silver lining is that if the cases keep going up this way, then the mortality rate will be drastically lower than we thought. But its not worth running around not caring about anyone but yourself. I love my country of America but we are a bunch of entitled idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. This will be pretty lengthy but you guys tempted me so here it is. First off, live TV ratings are not an indicator of general interest in the product. Which is what I find chuckle-worthy when I read these threads.
> 
> TV ratings are based on statistical sampling and are not an accurate representation of everyone who is watching. There are roughly 120-150 million TV households in the United States and only a portion of them are reported for each TV segment, whether its news, sports, TV series, movies etc. So the numbers reported are just an estimate on the viewing habits of the entire live wrestling audience.
> 
> For the last 10 years, live TV audience numbers have eroded and networks have been re-allocating TV ad budgets into digital advertising. My company has done the same, much like everyone else's for the most part. The whole reason ratings even exist is to help networks determine how much to charge for ad time, but those metrics are becoming more and more irrelevant each year.
> 
> To see people freaking out here and in the WWE section, saying that AEW, NXT, RAW, and SD are dying is funny to read because it's coming from people who are not in my world lol. For instance, this week, Dynamite did 742K live TV viewers, but no one is considering the B/R Streaming platform that did 325K live viewers, because they don't know to. They're also not considering the replay. In reality, the live "legal viewing" audience of Dynamite this week was around 1.1 million. NXT was higher as well because a portion of their viewers were on the WWE Network. An educated guess would say that they were around a million as well, as far as "legal" viewers. And that's just a part of it because you have the "illegal audience" which probably makes up about 60% of the entire audience.
> 
> Ratings matter to the TV networks as far as ad revenue, but fans wrongly look at weekly live TV ratings as an indicator of the interest of the fans in 2020. "RAW drew a 1.7 they're dead priogbfPENRFF", "AEW lost to NXT their a flope !onunraf'e" 😂Times have drastically changed and people have developed into online viewing for their weekly wrestling. For example, the streaming site "watchwr***linguno" (sorry mods) gets 5-6 million views every 3 weeks. MILLION. The WWE section of "VIPBox" does hundreds of thousands a month. AEW section of watchwr***linguno does hundreds of thousands to millions every couple of weeks. The number was higher prior to the no-crowd shows, which makes sense because some people decided they didn't want to watch wrestling in that lifeless manner. There are *tens and tens of streaming sites *like that which generate hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers per month. The wrestling audience is there, they're just not on cable TV. And can you blame them? I haven't watched a single episode of Dynamite on cable TV and I'm one of their biggest hardcores. Some are people that want to watch the show again, some are watching for the first time because they missed it live, some are curious, some are wandering into the AEW streaming section from the WWE side, etc. I know this because in my line of work in DM there are applications, subscriptions and tools that give you this information. I also run paid traffic via pay per click advertising and banner ads. It's funny coming from my world when I see people saying that "AEW chased off half of their audience" lol nah, the reality is that some of those people were curious and part of WWE and AEW's shared audience, and the other half probably weren't interested in the first place or decided to watch online instead. Most likely the latter because all the data is right in front of me lol.
> 
> And that's not even all. You have replays on TNT and B/R. Replays on streaming sites broken up into 5-10 parts and uploaded on "dummy" sites that present "content" completely irrelevant to wrestling just so they can have their video player in the middle. You have downloads which are a whole other beast I won't even get into. Tablet is not accounted for. You have mobile viewers that are not accounted for. @bdon you said you were watching on your phone last night right? Your view and the other thousands who watched on their phone are not accounted for. You also have DVR and Youtube, which continue to get strong numbers for both companies. There's so much missing in these ratings. I run an e-commerce store (www.iwantdatnow.com, *don't buy anything my merchant processor is not on and most products have been taken down lol*) and 80% of my buyers were on mobile. Meaning that people are on their phones a shitload, which you all already know.
> 
> People are online watching streams and replays of the show, because let's face it, everyone can't watch the shows live, which is something a lot of people like to ignore when they argue. People have lives and other things to do. If I were to take an educated guess on the actual weekly audience, AEW and NXT are both doing about 2 - 2.2 million+ viewers weekly. RAW and SD are probably doing 4 - 5 million+ weekly. They have a larger audience who have been loyal to the product for 30+ years. But there's no way to prove that or even monetize it because everyone is on the illegal live streaming sites watching all the shows bouncing from one section to another. This is why RAW is getting 1.7 on the live TV rating reportings every week, but still have 80 million Youtube subscribers and one of the most engagement-heavy social media accounts today with their sections of illegal streaming sites getting millions of viewers per month. If the actual audience for these shows were all under 2 million, there is no way that arenas would be sold out every night, every year. Think about it. The numbers don't add up. These kinds of numbers wouldn't fly 10 years ago when digital streaming wasn't so prevalent. Ratings were going down over the years at the same time that things were moving online, so it became more and more acceptable for shows to be doing under 2 million live viewers, when they were doing 5 million before, because networks started to notice the trend and started re-thinking their strategy.
> 
> But to the TV networks, they see the ratings as more and more lost ad revenue for them, which is why you sometimes get articles with negative connotations. But to the fan, it shouldn't mean a thing in 2020. As low as WWE's ratings have been, they are still poised to make a huge profit this year. Because the fan interest is still there at live shows and 60-70% of their income comes from the TV rights that they cut with TV networks, who want weekly programming that is guaranteed. With a TV series, it'll either be canceled, be on break between seasons, or be close to its series finale. Then the network is left with nothing except the hope that another TV series that's just as hot comes along and draws people in to look at their ads.
> 
> For the most part when looking at ratings, these networks are expecting a baseline number that they can be comfortable in getting every week. Guaranteed ad revenue. With RAW, is probably around 2 - 2.4 million viewers, with SD, it's probably about 2.6 - 3 million being that they are on FOX which is a much larger network, and with AEW and NXT, its probably at about 1 million. They want consistent weekly live sports because they know there will always be a baseline of fans that come back to view their ads. This is why you had TNT give AEW a five-year deal when they were only doing 800K. How many TV series last 5+ years? TNT is getting the ad revenue they want from AEW while their other shows are getting canceled left and right so they are happy. Same reason why RAW and SD were able to get billion-dollar network deals despite the fact that their live ratings have been dropping. How many shows last as long as RAW has? With TV series it's different because 80% of them get canceled within the first couple of seasons. Wrestling is always on 52 weeks a year regardless, which makes it attractive to networks if the foundational fan base is there, which has been the case with TNA, WWE, and AEW.
> 
> Me personally, I ONLY talk about ratings within the parameters in which they should be discussed. There are 2 parameters that matter with live TV ratings. Ad revenue and segment to segment gains/losses. Both which are metrics that only TV execs should concern themselves with honestly. But segment to segment for the live cable people is intriguing. Even then, it's impossible to really know how many people are really watching. Because as said before, they use sampling to guess what the majority is doing. And we all know that can never be accurate.
> 
> It's fun to talk about ratings when determining who's drawing with the live audience segment to segment and who isn't, but those gains and losses do not indicate or show the entire picture as to fan interest. Which is why most ratings talk is useless unless you talk about it from the POV of looking at demos. It's also good to look at segment gains when you're looking to see how over a talent is with the live sampled audience, but social media does that well enough these days too. Britt Baker is getting pushed mostly because people love her on social media and because her live crowd reactions are fire, despite the fact that her segments have turned away live cable viewers. The reality is that a lot of those people who love her have been getting their fix through streams, then going on social media to praise her for her segments. Orange Cassidy is losing cable viewers but his engagement rates online are high as shit and people also love him on social media. Just because he lost viewers in the 3rd quarter doesn't mean that the fan interest isn't there, especially when these weekly numbers are only based on a sampling and streaming sites are getting 5 million hits each per month.
> 
> Ratings still matter greatly from the POV of ad revenue, so they can't drop TOO low for the sake of the advertiser, but they don't gauge general interest in the product anymore. That was 10-15 years ago. The determinants and indicators of success in 2020 are social media engagement, live show sellouts, and PPV buys. AEW is doing great right now. But at the same time, If WWE COMPLETELY fixed their product from the ground up, and took Vince off of the hot seat, got rid of the network, and offered their PPV's at $50, they would wreck AEW in buys, because they have been establishing their fan base since the 90's. As it stands now though, their PPV's are not even worth the $10, which is sad af. Both shows would make a killing if you couldn't illegally stream PPV's online in crystal clear quality. DON2 did 120K buys, which is already a good number, but how much more would they have done if the other hundreds of thousands of people weren't illegally streaming the PPV? How many subscriptions to the WWE Network would WWE have if people weren't streaming their shows by the millions?
> 
> The real ratings war here that MJF alluded to last night is really just a war as to which network can make the most money in advertising. TNT or USA. MJF said it for the "Oh shit he's dropping a pipe bomb" moment lol, but the reality is that the real competition is to see who can steal the LIVE audience segment to segment. Its also about the demo more than anything. Jericho made a tweet earlier stating that they were #6 in the 18-49 demo and that that was all that mattered to advertisers. He is correct in saying that because that win in the demo means that they are winning over the younger audience on TV which correlates to online. Who's mostly online? The younger audience. If they are winning the younger audience, then if you look at the big picture that means that fan interest online, where it really matters, is growing. As long as their buy rates remain high, then they're completely fine whether they lose one week or not.
> 
> So all in all, the majority of the wrestling audience is not watching cable TV. Most of them don't even have cable. AEW's demo is the younger audience, how many people do you know in your personal life under the age of 30 who still watch cable? They are on Netflix or any other streaming service. Talking about ratings is great if you want to see which segments are stealing viewers from the live sample, and in seeing which talent is becoming a draw in real-time. It was fun to see that Sasha Banks single-handedly destroyed Jericho in the final quarter. But other than that kind of discussion, all other ratings talk is useless.
> 
> Holy shit that was a long post. Never again lol. @RapShepard @bdon
> 
> 
> 
> Sasha vs Io may have disappointed some because they didn't have the time to prepare for the match. I'd still give it ****1/4 stars. WWE threw it away and gave them a week of build because they wanted to win the live cable audience. This should have been a full-blown storyline with no fuckery. They still killed it though for a TV match. Give them a PPV match with no interference and a storyline/title on the line and these 2 will burn the house down.
> 
> It has also been reported already that Vince is playing more of a role in NXT, so your assumption is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the puppies battle royal is for lol.


this best post on this forum


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've promoted this show for like 4-6 weeks and putting every major star they have available on it and they lost to NXT and couldn't even hit 800,000 people.
> 
> How is that doing good?


They're still in the top 10 like they have been most of the time and on top of that they did well in the demo. Despite what you think they're still doing pretty good and there's nothing you can do or say that will change my mind.

So to sum it up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

kingfrass44 said:


> !!No-one watches live TV anymore (expect for REAL sports) !!!
> There are programs that have more than 3 million
> You wrong
> Is there evidence? There is no such thing as casual fans
> Stop considering your opinion facts
> You are a hard fan


AEW

Ratings bad

No evidence

They wrong


----------



## NathanMayberry

Dark Emperor said:


> *It's pretty sad for a legend like Jericho to be so insecure about losing viewership to NXT, he had to post about the demo. *This is Chris Freaking Jericho, he's above this. If he's embarrassed about the rating then they should improve the product!


I was insulted on reddit for saying basically this.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> there's nothing you can do or say that will change my mind.


Close minded people will always let you know they are closed minded.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> Bro in Alabama people are having Coronavirus parties and betting money as to who gets the virus first. In FL, you have people shoulder to shoulder at bars and on beaches without masks. People are fuckin stupid that's why the numbers keep going up. The only silver lining is that if the cases keep going up this way, then the mortality rate will be drastically lower than we thought. But its not worth running around not caring about anyone but yourself. I love my country of America but we are a bunch of entitled idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. This will be pretty lengthy but you guys tempted me so here it is. First off, live TV ratings are not an indicator of general interest in the product. Which is what I find chuckle-worthy when I read these threads.
> 
> TV ratings are based on statistical sampling and are not an accurate representation of everyone who is watching. There are roughly 120-150 million TV households in the United States and only a portion of them are reported for each TV segment, whether its news, sports, TV series, movies etc. So the numbers reported are just an estimate on the viewing habits of the entire live wrestling audience.
> 
> For the last 10 years, live TV audience numbers have eroded and networks have been re-allocating TV ad budgets into digital advertising. My company has done the same, much like everyone else's for the most part. The whole reason ratings even exist is to help networks determine how much to charge for ad time, but those metrics are becoming more and more irrelevant each year.
> 
> To see people freaking out here and in the WWE section, saying that AEW, NXT, RAW, and SD are dying is funny to read because it's coming from people who are not in my world lol. For instance, this week, Dynamite did 742K live TV viewers, but no one is considering the B/R Streaming platform that did 325K live viewers, because they don't know to. They're also not considering the replay. In reality, the live "legal viewing" audience of Dynamite this week was around 1.1 million. NXT was higher as well because a portion of their viewers were on the WWE Network. An educated guess would say that they were around a million as well, as far as "legal" viewers. And that's just a part of it because you have the "illegal audience" which probably makes up about 60% of the entire audience.
> 
> Ratings matter to the TV networks as far as ad revenue, but fans wrongly look at weekly live TV ratings as an indicator of the interest of the fans in 2020. "RAW drew a 1.7 they're dead priogbfPENRFF", "AEW lost to NXT their a flope !onunraf'e" Times have drastically changed and people have developed into online viewing for their weekly wrestling. For example, the streaming site "watchwr***linguno" (sorry mods) gets 5-6 million views every 3 weeks. MILLION. The WWE section of "VIPBox" does hundreds of thousands a month. AEW section of watchwr***linguno does hundreds of thousands to millions every couple of weeks. The number was higher prior to the no-crowd shows, which makes sense because some people decided they didn't want to watch wrestling in that lifeless manner. There are *tens and tens of streaming sites *like that which generate hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers per month. The wrestling audience is there, they're just not on cable TV. And can you blame them? I haven't watched a single episode of Dynamite on cable TV and I'm one of their biggest hardcores. Some are people that want to watch the show again, some are watching for the first time because they missed it live, some are curious, some are wandering into the AEW streaming section from the WWE side, etc. I know this because in my line of work in DM there are applications, subscriptions and tools that give you this information. I also run paid traffic via pay per click advertising and banner ads. It's funny coming from my world when I see people saying that "AEW chased off half of their audience" lol nah, the reality is that some of those people were curious and part of WWE and AEW's shared audience, and the other half probably weren't interested in the first place or decided to watch online instead. Most likely the latter because all the data is right in front of me lol.
> 
> And that's not even all. You have replays on TNT and B/R. Replays on streaming sites broken up into 5-10 parts and uploaded on "dummy" sites that present "content" completely irrelevant to wrestling just so they can have their video player in the middle. You have downloads which are a whole other beast I won't even get into. Tablet is not accounted for. You have mobile viewers that are not accounted for. @bdon you said you were watching on your phone last night right? Your view and the other thousands who watched on their phone are not accounted for. You also have DVR and Youtube, which continue to get strong numbers for both companies. There's so much missing in these ratings. I run an e-commerce store (www.iwantdatnow.com, *don't buy anything my merchant processor is not on and most products have been taken down lol*) and 80% of my buyers were on mobile. Meaning that people are on their phones a shitload, which you all already know.
> 
> People are online watching streams and replays of the show, because let's face it, everyone can't watch the shows live, which is something a lot of people like to ignore when they argue. People have lives and other things to do. If I were to take an educated guess on the actual weekly audience, AEW and NXT are both doing about 2 - 2.2 million+ viewers weekly. RAW and SD are probably doing 4 - 5 million+ weekly. They have a larger audience who have been loyal to the product for 30+ years. But there's no way to prove that or even monetize it because everyone is on the illegal live streaming sites watching all the shows bouncing from one section to another. This is why RAW is getting 1.7 on the live TV rating reportings every week, but still have 80 million Youtube subscribers and one of the most engagement-heavy social media accounts today with their sections of illegal streaming sites getting millions of viewers per month. If the actual audience for these shows were all under 2 million, there is no way that arenas would be sold out every night, every year. Think about it. The numbers don't add up. These kinds of numbers wouldn't fly 10 years ago when digital streaming wasn't so prevalent. Ratings were going down over the years at the same time that things were moving online, so it became more and more acceptable for shows to be doing under 2 million live viewers, when they were doing 5 million before, because networks started to notice the trend and started re-thinking their strategy.
> 
> But to the TV networks, they see the ratings as more and more lost ad revenue for them, which is why you sometimes get articles with negative connotations. But to the fan, it shouldn't mean a thing in 2020. As low as WWE's ratings have been, they are still poised to make a huge profit this year. Because the fan interest is still there at live shows and 60-70% of their income comes from the TV rights that they cut with TV networks, who want weekly programming that is guaranteed. With a TV series, it'll either be canceled, be on break between seasons, or be close to its series finale. Then the network is left with nothing except the hope that another TV series that's just as hot comes along and draws people in to look at their ads.
> 
> For the most part when looking at ratings, these networks are expecting a baseline number that they can be comfortable in getting every week. Guaranteed ad revenue. With RAW, is probably around 2 - 2.4 million viewers, with SD, it's probably about 2.6 - 3 million being that they are on FOX which is a much larger network, and with AEW and NXT, its probably at about 1 million. They want consistent weekly live sports because they know there will always be a baseline of fans that come back to view their ads. This is why you had TNT give AEW a five-year deal when they were only doing 800K. How many TV series last 5+ years? TNT is getting the ad revenue they want from AEW while their other shows are getting canceled left and right so they are happy. Same reason why RAW and SD were able to get billion-dollar network deals despite the fact that their live ratings have been dropping. How many shows last as long as RAW has? With TV series it's different because 80% of them get canceled within the first couple of seasons. Wrestling is always on 52 weeks a year regardless, which makes it attractive to networks if the foundational fan base is there, which has been the case with TNA, WWE, and AEW.
> 
> Me personally, I ONLY talk about ratings within the parameters in which they should be discussed. There are 2 parameters that matter with live TV ratings. Ad revenue and segment to segment gains/losses. Both which are metrics that only TV execs should concern themselves with honestly. But segment to segment for the live cable people is intriguing. Even then, it's impossible to really know how many people are really watching. Because as said before, they use sampling to guess what the majority is doing. And we all know that can never be accurate.
> 
> It's fun to talk about ratings when determining who's drawing with the live audience segment to segment and who isn't, but those gains and losses do not indicate or show the entire picture as to fan interest. Which is why most ratings talk is useless unless you talk about it from the POV of looking at demos. It's also good to look at segment gains when you're looking to see how over a talent is with the live sampled audience, but social media does that well enough these days too. Britt Baker is getting pushed mostly because people love her on social media and because her live crowd reactions are fire, despite the fact that her segments have turned away live cable viewers. The reality is that a lot of those people who love her have been getting their fix through streams, then going on social media to praise her for her segments. Orange Cassidy is losing cable viewers but his engagement rates online are high as shit and people also love him on social media. Just because he lost viewers in the 3rd quarter doesn't mean that the fan interest isn't there, especially when these weekly numbers are only based on a sampling and streaming sites are getting 5 million hits each per month.
> 
> Ratings still matter greatly from the POV of ad revenue, so they can't drop TOO low for the sake of the advertiser, but they don't gauge general interest in the product anymore. That was 10-15 years ago. The determinants and indicators of success in 2020 are social media engagement, live show sellouts, and PPV buys. AEW is doing great right now. But at the same time, If WWE COMPLETELY fixed their product from the ground up, and took Vince off of the hot seat, got rid of the network, and offered their PPV's at $50, they would wreck AEW in buys, because they have been establishing their fan base since the 90's. As it stands now though, their PPV's are not even worth the $10, which is sad af. Both shows would make a killing if you couldn't illegally stream PPV's online in crystal clear quality. DON2 did 120K buys, which is already a good number, but how much more would they have done if the other hundreds of thousands of people weren't illegally streaming the PPV? How many subscriptions to the WWE Network would WWE have if people weren't streaming their shows by the millions?
> 
> The real ratings war here that MJF alluded to last night is really just a war as to which network can make the most money in advertising. TNT or USA. MJF said it for the "Oh shit he's dropping a pipe bomb" moment lol, but the reality is that the real competition is to see who can steal the LIVE audience segment to segment. Its also about the demo more than anything. Jericho made a tweet earlier stating that they were #6 in the 18-49 demo and that that was all that mattered to advertisers. He is correct in saying that because that win in the demo means that they are winning over the younger audience on TV which correlates to online. Who's mostly online? The younger audience. If they are winning the younger audience, then if you look at the big picture that means that fan interest online, where it really matters, is growing. As long as their buy rates remain high, then they're completely fine whether they lose one week or not.
> 
> So all in all, the majority of the wrestling audience is not watching cable TV. Most of them don't even have cable. AEW's demo is the younger audience, how many people do you know in your personal life under the age of 30 who still watch cable? They are on Netflix or any other streaming service. Talking about ratings is great if you want to see which segments are stealing viewers from the live sample, and in seeing which talent is becoming a draw in real-time. It was fun to see that Sasha Banks single-handedly destroyed Jericho in the final quarter. But other than that kind of discussion, all other ratings talk is useless.
> 
> Holy shit that was a long post. Never again lol. @RapShepard @bdon
> 
> 
> 
> Sasha vs Io may have disappointed some because they didn't have the time to prepare for the match. I'd still give it ****1/4 stars. WWE threw it away and gave them a week of build because they wanted to win the live cable audience. This should have been a full-blown storyline with no fuckery. They still killed it though for a TV match. Give them a PPV match with no interference and a storyline/title on the line and these 2 will burn the house down.
> 
> It has also been reported already that Vince is playing more of a role in NXT, so your assumption is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the puppies battle royal is for lol.


Appreciate the time took man. I have no response not because it's not good, but because it's out of my depth. I guess my only question is, what's taking Nielson so long to adapt


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lheurch said:


> Close minded people will always let you know they are closed minded.


Close minded because I don't care to hear a bunch of bullshit about how the rating is bad because ultimately it's not? lol Okay Cowboy, whatever you say...


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Close minded because I don't care to hear a bunch of bullshit about how the rating is bad because ultimately it's not? lol Okay Cowboy, whatever you say...


If there is NOTHING that could get you to change your mind on something, it is by definition closed.


----------



## validreasoning

No chance WWE are moving back to ppv only

WWE total ppv revenue in 2010 was $70 million.
2018 network revenue was $200 million

2010 there was ~5 million watching Raw live in the US alone and roster was stacked particularly first six months of the year with Cena, Orton, Edge, Undertaker, HHH, Batista all weekly touring regulars. Their two biggest stars of last 5 years (Reigns and Lynch are out indefinitely).

WWE ppvs are still available to buy for $50 if you so choose.



DaSlacker said:


> In all honesty I don't watch it often. But reading the results since it moved to USA, they've booked:
> 
> Cole/Balor, Cole/Dream, Ciampa/Gargano, Ciampa/Balor, Ripley/Shirai, Ripley/Lynch, Ripley/Bazler, Shirai/Charlotte. Plus, several big triple threat or tag matches. In addition to putting Grimes, Scott and Lumis in 50/50 losing efforts. Kross is definitely being protected. Whether any of this actually matters is another question, I will admit.


In a year or so that's not many. During Monday night war how many times did we get Hogan vs Luger, sting vs flair, rock vs Austin, HHH vs Rock on free tv..seemed like every week.

Even back in day Neville vs Balor, Neville vs Owens, Bayley vs Aj Lee, Zayn vs Cesaro, Bayley vs Charlotte, Paige vs emma were matches that happened on the weekly nxt show.

I think AEW gives away more than NXT. Tag title changes, women's title changes have happened more than once on free tv. We have had world title matches, cage matches etc. 



> The dev brand is filled with 35 year old and more Best of the Indies than experimentalism and character building. Then they go to Raw or Smackdown, 9/10 cooling completely.


10 years ago people would have laughed at the idea of developmental pro wrestling in national TV in prime time. 

It's still developmental. Everyone in developmental isn't going to get a push on main roster as spots there are already filled. In OVW people remember four guys that got pushes on raw/sd but forget the 100+ who didn't.

In NBA d league or premier league developmental squads it's actually quite rare these days a player gets through to one of the big teams and establish themselves

And still Rollins, Reigns. Ambrose, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley,Sasha, Bliss, Big E, Strowman, Owens, McIntyre, Zayn, Corbin, street profits are doing ok for themselves


----------



## MontyCora

If you could show me one example of a sustained ratings growth period for modern wrestling on a large scale, at least we would have an example of what people TRULY want to see. But we don't. Wrestling in all of it's forms is unpopular. NXT tries to be a more serious grounded respectable product with the best presentation in the business, good solid straight forward storytelling and good characters, and it just is not going to cause a ratings boom. The NXT Takeover shows have been one of the most consistently incredible runs in the history of wrestling PPV's quality wise, it's very low on "goofy" silly humor. 

I quite literally do not know how you could possibly top some of these Takeover shows. I literally have no substantial ideas about how you make it "better" beyond "Adam Cole should lift some weights" or "less super kicks please."


----------



## NXT Only

Russo booked the puppy battle royal


----------



## NXT Only

sideon said:


> All he said was that they have to grow their fanbase and ya'll want to crucify him, that right there is why AEW will never be legitimate competition for the WWE. Every time someone has the slightest critique of AEW ya'll want to point the finger back at WWE.


Ehh. Trying to turn a niche product in a mainstream/casual product isn’t smart. Remember Raw and their guest hosts every week. No one wants that in wrestling.

I play Madden NFL and they put Snoop Dogg, Lil Yachty, Migos, DJ Khaled and it didn’t go over well with the core fan base of the game because they used money and resources to do that instead of improving the game and that’s similar to what Russo is suggesting in terms of targeting a casual audience.

I rather AEW use resources to find themselves for their hardcore fan base who’s supported them since their inception. You risk alienating them by targeting casuals.

And that’s not to say AEW does everything right cause some things miss but that’s okay because it happens. Focus on the things you can control first.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Russo has his flaws(Hell I hated him for a long time for what happened to WCW) but I think some of the most flawed individuals make the best wrestling critics. And really most of the time Russo and Cornette make similar arguments and they are mostly right.


----------



## Mercian

I dont like Vince Russo as a writer or what he has done to the business 

However he is right and like Wolf Mark said saying the same as Cornette

Your not going to bring the many fans back or attract new fans if your going to do the same or worse goofy stuff as WWE

There are a huge percentage out there who still have an interest in Wrestling but do so via old YouTube matches due to the choices available to them in modern Wrestling


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW is the only hope for wrestling fans who don't like WWE but want another international wrestling product to come in and do the same as what WWE does. Personally I don't care if AEW beats WWE in ratings or whatever I just care that they absolutely kill it week to week.
> 
> NJPW can't do that in the USA stopping their expansion at a tour every year, TNA was the closest we've got since WCW but they're now a large independent wrestling company drawing 200-300 thousand viewers a week on television.
> 
> ROH had good potential but is also an independent. MLW and NWA are mid ranged indies.
> 
> None of these companies have the budget to compete with WWE domestically EXCEPT AEW. This might very well be why most people view AEW as their only hope.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem with you AEW hardcore fans.
> 
> Yeah, 550k is their record low but the ratings have been going down ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A MONTH ON AVERAGE! 100,000 people! The show starting at 700,000 and then dropping isn't a good thing it's a really bad thing because that means 150,000 people (Or more!) said "Fuck this, I'm out of this shit show" by the time the main event and Jericho/OC came out. That's not how you do television.
> 
> Can they bounce back? Maybe. We don't know just how many of those fans are done with AEW for good. For many people Orange Cassidy being a main event guy might very well be the last straw for them. We won't know until this weeks episode.
> 
> 
> 
> People thought the same about WCW as well but they managed to do it. All it takes is a smart person and AEW very well could be competitive with WWE in the future.


he right


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> And ?
> 
> I don't give a shit about if a crowd is white, black or yellow.
> Hell they could be robots i would be ok with it as long as they react to the show.


what yall going at each other bout?


----------



## TripleG

Lets not pretend that COVID-19 hasn't impacted wrestling viewership across the board. Wrestling just doesn't work without an audience. I've taken to rewatching WCW Nitro over most new stuff because without a crowd, it has no passion or energy to it. 

So when I read that Raw's viewership is down, and AEW isn't growing, I'm thinking "Who the fuck is going to sit at home and watching these lifeless shows every week?". You could have the greatest ideas on planet Earth, but if you present them in front of nobody, then it isn't going to come off nearly as well as it should. 

And again, this is impacting everyone. NXT with its forced chants and shit lacks all of the true energy that NXT used to generate from its audience. It is what it is. 

You know what I miss about the Monday Night Wars periods? Among other things, it is the genuinely passionate responses from the crowds. Go watch a Raw or Nitro from 1997 and its like a completely different world to what we typically get today. 

Now, to respond to Russo's comments: He's not necessarily wrong. You can't grow your audience if you only appeal to the wrestling die hards. BUT, I've seen tons of examples of Russo's ideas to bring in people, and it has resulted in some of the worst wrestling shows of all time (WCW 2000), so I wouldn't trust him to do it. 

The only wrestling show I've seen since the turn of the century that felt "new" was Lucha Underground, but as much as I enjoyed it, that amounted to being a niche product with a cult following and not much more. What's the next NWO or Stone Cold Steve Austin or major storyline that can draw large audiences again? I have no idea. If I knew, I'd start a company and do it myself. 

So yeah, Russo has a point, but I also know he's probably saying this to try and convince someone to give him a job, and nobody in their right mind would do that.


----------



## sideon

NXT Only said:


> Ehh. *Trying to turn a niche product in a mainstream/casual product isn’t smart. Remember Raw and their guest hosts every week. No one wants that in wrestling.*
> 
> I play Madden NFL and they put Snoop Dogg, Lil Yachty, Migos, DJ Khaled and it didn’t go over well with the core fan base of the game because they used money and resources to do that instead of improving the game and that’s similar to what Russo is suggesting in terms of targeting a casual audience.
> 
> I rather AEW use resources to find themselves for their hardcore fan base who’s supported them since their inception. You risk alienating them by targeting casuals.
> 
> And that’s not to say AEW does everything right cause some things miss but that’s okay because it happens. Focus on the things you can control first.


The Attitude Era & the nWo didn't just appeal to the hardcore fans, that era made wrestling cool and had celebrities all over the place. You can't just appeal to the smarks because what they want is typically not what the majority of fans want.


----------



## Mister Sinister

One can disagree with Russo's creative ideas and agree with him that they are broadcasting in a bubble, they aren't signing talents like Tessa Blanchard and Austin Aries, they aren't trying to make money, they are signing the Colt Cabanas and Zack Ryders of the wrestling world, the matches are mostly spotfests because someone isn't collecting their balls and telling the greenhorns how to fucking work, guys are getting injured because they are doing 14 dives to the outside every episode, and they want to push progressive sexual/trans shit on the audience and chase them away.

In order to expand the audience they have to think of a larger, welcoming tent. *They have to think about NASCAR and football fans. They have to think about black and Latinos. Each of those three segments are highly socially conservative. *All I saw when they had audiences were white geeks with no kids. There is nothing wrong with the white, geek audience, but AEW isn't reaching beyond that.


----------



## NXT Only

sideon said:


> The Attitude Era & the nWo didn't just appeal to the hardcore fans, that era made wrestling cool and had celebrities all over the place. You can't just appeal to the smarks because what they want is typically not what the majority of fans want.


That’s an outlier. Remember the 90s were an insane time in pop culture. Everything was cool that was happening.

Majority of fans right now are smarks tho, there’s no casual audience for wrestling and if it is then it’s small but you’re not going to get people who aren’t interested in pro wrestling, not AEW or WWE or NJPW or ROH but the idea of pro wrestling to tune in unless you go away from the core principals your product is built upon.

NFL and NBA have catered to casuals by emphasizing high octane offenses to score points and keep fans engaged in games. MLB is trying by speeding up games and putting limits on certain aspects. Hardcore fans in all 3 are pissed about those things. Casuals? They don’t really care they’ll watch or they won’t.

AEW was birthed because of hardcore fans, smarks and the Indy scene. They should be true to themselves. But everyone seems to want another WWE.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite




----------



## ElTerrible

RapShepard said:


> Appreciate the time took man. I have no response not because it's not good, but because it's out of my depth. I guess my only question is, what's taking Nielson so long to adapt


They have the digital data, too. Digital advertising is a much more accurate medium, cause you can measure, track and target every individual, unlike TV where it´s just a small panel from which the overall ratings are extrapolated. The money is shifting from the classical media to digital, especially VOD, but for now the big budgets are still in TV, so it´s important for WWE/AEW and the TV channels to get their numbers.


----------



## Diamond Cutter

Wrestling casuals are the silent majority. Not everybody wants to talk about it online... AEW is so catered to the online fan, they've dropped the ball massively.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Bro in Alabama people are having Coronavirus parties and betting money as to who gets the virus first. In FL, you have people shoulder to shoulder at bars and on beaches without masks. People are fuckin stupid that's why the numbers keep going up. The only silver lining is that if the cases keep going up this way, then the mortality rate will be drastically lower than we thought. But its not worth running around not caring about anyone but yourself. I love my country of America but we are a bunch of entitled idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. This will be pretty lengthy but you guys tempted me so here it is. First off, live TV ratings are not an indicator of general interest in the product. Which is what I find chuckle-worthy when I read these threads.
> 
> TV ratings are based on statistical sampling and are not an accurate representation of everyone who is watching. There are roughly 120-150 million TV households in the United States and only a portion of them are reported for each TV segment, whether its news, sports, TV series, movies etc. So the numbers reported are just an estimate on the viewing habits of the entire live wrestling audience.
> 
> For the last 10 years, live TV audience numbers have eroded and networks have been re-allocating TV ad budgets into digital advertising. My company has done the same, much like everyone else's for the most part. The whole reason ratings even exist is to help networks determine how much to charge for ad time, but those metrics are becoming more and more irrelevant each year.
> 
> To see people freaking out here and in the WWE section, saying that AEW, NXT, RAW, and SD are dying is funny to read because it's coming from people who are not in my world lol. For instance, this week, Dynamite did 742K live TV viewers, but no one is considering the B/R Streaming platform that did 325K live viewers, because they don't know to. They're also not considering the replay. In reality, the live "legal viewing" audience of Dynamite this week was around 1.1 million. NXT was higher as well because a portion of their viewers were on the WWE Network. An educated guess would say that they were around a million as well, as far as "legal" viewers. And that's just a part of it because you have the "illegal audience" which probably makes up about 60% of the entire audience.
> 
> Ratings matter to the TV networks as far as ad revenue, but fans wrongly look at weekly live TV ratings as an indicator of the interest of the fans in 2020. "RAW drew a 1.7 they're dead priogbfPENRFF", "AEW lost to NXT their a flope !onunraf'e" 😂Times have drastically changed and people have developed into online viewing for their weekly wrestling. For example, the streaming site "watchwr***linguno" (sorry mods) gets 5-6 million views every 3 weeks. MILLION. The WWE section of "VIPBox" does hundreds of thousands a month. AEW section of watchwr***linguno does hundreds of thousands to millions every couple of weeks. The number was higher prior to the no-crowd shows, which makes sense because some people decided they didn't want to watch wrestling in that lifeless manner. There are *tens and tens of streaming sites *like that which generate hundreds of thousands to millions of viewers per month. The wrestling audience is there, they're just not on cable TV. And can you blame them? I haven't watched a single episode of Dynamite on cable TV and I'm one of their biggest hardcores. Some are people that want to watch the show again, some are watching for the first time because they missed it live, some are curious, some are wandering into the AEW streaming section from the WWE side, etc. I know this because in my line of work in DM there are applications, subscriptions and tools that give you this information. I also run paid traffic via pay per click advertising and banner ads. It's funny coming from my world when I see people saying that "AEW chased off half of their audience" lol nah, the reality is that some of those people were curious and part of WWE and AEW's shared audience, and the other half probably weren't interested in the first place or decided to watch online instead. Most likely the latter because all the data is right in front of me lol.
> 
> And that's not even all. You have replays on TNT and B/R. Replays on streaming sites broken up into 5-10 parts and uploaded on "dummy" sites that present "content" completely irrelevant to wrestling just so they can have their video player in the middle. You have downloads which are a whole other beast I won't even get into. Tablet is not accounted for. You have mobile viewers that are not accounted for. @bdon you said you were watching on your phone last night right? Your view and the other thousands who watched on their phone are not accounted for. You also have DVR and Youtube, which continue to get strong numbers for both companies. There's so much missing in these ratings. I run an e-commerce store (www.iwantdatnow.com, *don't buy anything my merchant processor is not on and most products have been taken down lol*) and 80% of my buyers were on mobile. Meaning that people are on their phones a shitload, which you all already know.
> 
> People are online watching streams and replays of the show, because let's face it, everyone can't watch the shows live, which is something a lot of people like to ignore when they argue. People have lives and other things to do. If I were to take an educated guess on the actual weekly audience, AEW and NXT are both doing about 2 - 2.2 million+ viewers weekly. RAW and SD are probably doing 4 - 5 million+ weekly. They have a larger audience who have been loyal to the product for 30+ years. But there's no way to prove that or even monetize it because everyone is on the illegal live streaming sites watching all the shows bouncing from one section to another. This is why RAW is getting 1.7 on the live TV rating reportings every week, but still have 80 million Youtube subscribers and one of the most engagement-heavy social media accounts today with their sections of illegal streaming sites getting millions of viewers per month. If the actual audience for these shows were all under 2 million, there is no way that arenas would be sold out every night, every year. Think about it. The numbers don't add up. These kinds of numbers wouldn't fly 10 years ago when digital streaming wasn't so prevalent. Ratings were going down over the years at the same time that things were moving online, so it became more and more acceptable for shows to be doing under 2 million live viewers, when they were doing 5 million before, because networks started to notice the trend and started re-thinking their strategy.
> 
> But to the TV networks, they see the ratings as more and more lost ad revenue for them, which is why you sometimes get articles with negative connotations. But to the fan, it shouldn't mean a thing in 2020. As low as WWE's ratings have been, they are still poised to make a huge profit this year. Because the fan interest is still there at live shows and 60-70% of their income comes from the TV rights that they cut with TV networks, who want weekly programming that is guaranteed. With a TV series, it'll either be canceled, be on break between seasons, or be close to its series finale. Then the network is left with nothing except the hope that another TV series that's just as hot comes along and draws people in to look at their ads.
> 
> For the most part when looking at ratings, these networks are expecting a baseline number that they can be comfortable in getting every week. Guaranteed ad revenue. With RAW, is probably around 2 - 2.4 million viewers, with SD, it's probably about 2.6 - 3 million being that they are on FOX which is a much larger network, and with AEW and NXT, its probably at about 1 million. They want consistent weekly live sports because they know there will always be a baseline of fans that come back to view their ads. This is why you had TNT give AEW a five-year deal when they were only doing 800K. How many TV series last 5+ years? TNT is getting the ad revenue they want from AEW while their other shows are getting canceled left and right so they are happy. Same reason why RAW and SD were able to get billion-dollar network deals despite the fact that their live ratings have been dropping. How many shows last as long as RAW has? With TV series it's different because 80% of them get canceled within the first couple of seasons. Wrestling is always on 52 weeks a year regardless, which makes it attractive to networks if the foundational fan base is there, which has been the case with TNA, WWE, and AEW.
> 
> Me personally, I ONLY talk about ratings within the parameters in which they should be discussed. There are 2 parameters that matter with live TV ratings. Ad revenue and segment to segment gains/losses. Both which are metrics that only TV execs should concern themselves with honestly. But segment to segment for the live cable people is intriguing. Even then, it's impossible to really know how many people are really watching. Because as said before, they use sampling to guess what the majority is doing. And we all know that can never be accurate.
> 
> It's fun to talk about ratings when determining who's drawing with the live audience segment to segment and who isn't, but those gains and losses do not indicate or show the entire picture as to fan interest. Which is why most ratings talk is useless unless you talk about it from the POV of looking at demos. It's also good to look at segment gains when you're looking to see how over a talent is with the live sampled audience, but social media does that well enough these days too. Britt Baker is getting pushed mostly because people love her on social media and because her live crowd reactions are fire, despite the fact that her segments have turned away live cable viewers. The reality is that a lot of those people who love her have been getting their fix through streams, then going on social media to praise her for her segments. Orange Cassidy is losing cable viewers but his engagement rates online are high as shit and people also love him on social media. Just because he lost viewers in the 3rd quarter doesn't mean that the fan interest isn't there, especially when these weekly numbers are only based on a sampling and streaming sites are getting 5 million hits each per month.
> 
> Ratings still matter greatly from the POV of ad revenue, so they can't drop TOO low for the sake of the advertiser, but they don't gauge general interest in the product anymore. That was 10-15 years ago. The determinants and indicators of success in 2020 are social media engagement, live show sellouts, and PPV buys. AEW is doing great right now. But at the same time, If WWE COMPLETELY fixed their product from the ground up, and took Vince off of the hot seat, got rid of the network, and offered their PPV's at $50, they would wreck AEW in buys, because they have been establishing their fan base since the 90's. As it stands now though, their PPV's are not even worth the $10, which is sad af. Both shows would make a killing if you couldn't illegally stream PPV's online in crystal clear quality. DON2 did 120K buys, which is already a good number, but how much more would they have done if the other hundreds of thousands of people weren't illegally streaming the PPV? How many subscriptions to the WWE Network would WWE have if people weren't streaming their shows by the millions?
> 
> The real ratings war here that MJF alluded to last night is really just a war as to which network can make the most money in advertising. TNT or USA. MJF said it for the "Oh shit he's dropping a pipe bomb" moment lol, but the reality is that the real competition is to see who can steal the LIVE audience segment to segment. Its also about the demo more than anything. Jericho made a tweet earlier stating that they were #6 in the 18-49 demo and that that was all that mattered to advertisers. He is correct in saying that because that win in the demo means that they are winning over the younger audience on TV which correlates to online. Who's mostly online? The younger audience. If they are winning the younger audience, then if you look at the big picture that means that fan interest online, where it really matters, is growing. As long as their buy rates remain high, then they're completely fine whether they lose one week or not.
> 
> So all in all, the majority of the wrestling audience is not watching cable TV. Most of them don't even have cable. AEW's demo is the younger audience, how many people do you know in your personal life under the age of 30 who still watch cable? They are on Netflix or any other streaming service. Talking about ratings is great if you want to see which segments are stealing viewers from the live sample, and in seeing which talent is becoming a draw in real-time. It was fun to see that Sasha Banks single-handedly destroyed Jericho in the final quarter. But other than that kind of discussion, all other ratings talk is useless.
> 
> Holy shit that was a long post. Never again lol. @RapShepard @bdon
> 
> 
> 
> Sasha vs Io may have disappointed some because they didn't have the time to prepare for the match. I'd still give it ****1/4 stars. WWE threw it away and gave them a week of build because they wanted to win the live cable audience. This should have been a full-blown storyline with no fuckery. They still killed it though for a TV match. Give them a PPV match with no interference and a storyline/title on the line and these 2 will burn the house down.
> 
> It has also been reported already that Vince is playing more of a role in NXT, so your assumption is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the puppies battle royal is for lol.


This whole post should just be on sticky / and as a digital marketer same as Prosper I can confirm a lot of this / although I see less of what he sees working mainly in Europe - so, good on you Prosper

In the end, the only CONSISTENT metric through the ages - how you can compare 70s, 80s, 90s, and current wrestling is:

1. What is the gate count per head
2. What are the merch numbers

the rest is heavily changeable


----------



## rbl85

So i was right the main event of NXT was huge for the 50+ demo but AEW still won the quarter in the 18-49 demo.

Told you 50+ people love women matches (even the one without big names) XD

Other than that i love when Meltzer say "the newsletter will be out shortly" and 10 hours later i'm still waiting XD


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

It really is funny @prosperwithdeen when guys like @Chip Chipperson and
Others say “bUt TnA dId oVeR a MiLliOn eVeRy WeEk” and you drop a lovely post like. It’ll still be debated every week btw, but at least I can refer to somebody who is actually in the business, knows what they are talking about and is able to discuss it in an objective manner.

The evidence is there of dropping cable subscriptions, the peak of subscriptions being 2009. That was over 11 years ago.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You know if i had the right to do 1 thing on this forum it will be to delete and ban the ratings threads.


You’re welcome to leave.

I appreciate you posting, prosperwithdeen, but that’s basically what a few people (myself included) have been saying (and mocked for). Where I will disagree with you is how relevant that that illegal audience is and how readily they can be monetised. And they have lost half their live audience, and it goes to follow that they’ve probably lost half their illegal audience too. It’s not like people watched on TNT and then thought “this was good” and then decided to jump onto illegal streaming sites.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> It really is funny @prosperwithdeen when guys like @Chip Chipperson and
> Others say “bUt TnA dId oVeR a MiLliOn eVeRy WeEk” and you drop a lovely post like. It’ll still be debated every week btw, but at least I can refer to somebody who is actually in the business, knows what they are talking about and is able to discuss it in an objective manner.
> 
> The evidence is there of dropping cable subscriptions, the peak of subscriptions being 2009. That was over 11 years ago.


How the fuck does prosper’s post change any of that at all?


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> You’re welcome to leave.
> 
> I appreciate you posting, prosperwithdeen, but that’s basically what a few people (myself included) have been saying (and mocked for). Where I will disagree with you is how relevant that that illegal audience is and how readily they can be monetised. And they have lost half their live audience, and it goes to follow that they’ve probably lost half their illegal audience too. It’s not like people watched on TNT and then thought “this was good” and then decided to jump onto illegal streaming sites.


I think some people are interested enough to watch the highlights of the show (or only matches that interest them) but not enough interested to watch 2 hours. (it's the same for RAW, SDL and NXT).

Now the question is what would make those people decide to watch the shows live and i don't have the answer.


----------



## rbl85

I have the quarters :

I didn't know that NXT had no commercials

I will post the detailled quarters a bit later because i don't have the time to do it now


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> I think some people are interested enough to watch the highlights of the show (or only matches that interest them) but not enough interested to watch 2 hours. (it's the same for RAW, SDL and NXT).
> 
> Now the question is what would make those people decide to watch the shows live and i don't have the answer.


Better content.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I have the quarters :
> 
> I didn't know that NXT had no commercials
> 
> I will post the detailled quarters a bit later because i don't have the time to do it now


NXT did have commercials, only the Io/Sasha match was commercial free.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> That’s an outlier. Remember the 90s were an insane time in pop culture. Everything was cool that was happening.
> 
> Majority of fans right now are smarks tho, there’s no casual audience for wrestling and if it is then it’s small but you’re not going to get people who aren’t interested in pro wrestling, not AEW or WWE or NJPW or ROH but the idea of pro wrestling to tune in unless you go away from the core principals your product is built upon.
> 
> NFL and NBA have catered to casuals by emphasizing high octane offenses to score points and keep fans engaged in games. MLB is trying by speeding up games and putting limits on certain aspects. Hardcore fans in all 3 are pissed about those things. Casuals? They don’t really care they’ll watch or they won’t.
> 
> AEW was birthed because of hardcore fans, smarks and the Indy scene. They should be true to themselves. But everyone seems to want another WWE.


You come close to making some really good points, but then you just veer completely away from them. 

You're right, casuals have been chased off. That is wrestling's fault. It's not a bed that it needs to resign itself to lie in though. Stop doing the shit that chases them away. Go back to the fundamentals of pro-wrestling that have worked for thousands of years, really. Being "true to themselves" is exactly how they are like WWE.


----------



## bdon

@prosperwithdeen really appreciate the post. That was an awesome breakdown.

And no, I have not watched a single episode of Dynamite on old school cable television. I have watched every episode on the AT&T TV app as we’ve been in the process of selling our home for a while and living in an apartment roughly an hour away while looking for a new home. Literally not one episode.

But yeah, man. Great post.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> You come close to making some really good points, but then you just veer completely away from them.
> 
> You're right, casuals have been chased off. That is wrestling's fault. It's not a bed that it needs to resign itself to lie in though. Stop doing the shit that chases them away. Go back to the fundamentals of pro-wrestling that have worked for thousands of years, really. Being "true to themselves" is exactly how they are like WWE.


What would you do to target casuals while not alienating your hardcore fan base?


----------



## karebear

has sasha and bayley not had an effect on the swing in ratings? it seems that since these two have been featuring on nxt over the past couple of weeks the numbers have ticked up for them, I mean both bayley and sasha are big main roster acts with very a devoted following of fans, it will be interesting to see what happens if or when they stop featuring on nxt.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> I think some people are interested enough to watch the highlights of the show (or only matches that interest them) but not enough interested to watch 2 hours. (it's the same for RAW, SDL and NXT).
> 
> Now the question is what would make those people decide to watch the shows live and i don't have the answer.


It's also always stupid to say AEW ever had that week one audience. If you look at breakdown it was HUGE amount of 18-49 crowd who watched that show. Which peaked I believe early in the show. They watched it once(many for only 30 minutes or less) to try and many never tried again.


After that week one they did around 1m viewers for next 3 weeks which is better idea of what their audience really was. From then it slipped about 100,000 viewers. But the audience and demo were fairly consistent from October 30 though March 25th show.

So haters saying oh they lost half their audience is just flat out dumb and only comment used by hater of the company. Since many of that audience was likely never going to comeback. The key is getting back to that .40 and 1 million viewers range they were after week one. Which it seemed like they were climbing towards. But that's not going to happen during pandemic and no fans. So right now the goal should be 700-800 viewers and .30-.35 demo. They aren't gonna grow audience without fans or gain back fans who tried it for a few weeks without fans that's for sure.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> @prosperwithdeen really appreciate the post. That was an awesome breakdown.
> 
> And no, I have not watched a single episode of Dynamite on old school cable television. I have watched every episode on the AT&T TV app as we’ve been in the process of selling our home for a while and living in an apartment roughly an hour away while looking for a new home. Literally not one episode.
> 
> But yeah, man. Great post.


AeW not ratings
smark only


----------



## imthegame19

AEW's Main Event slightly won the 18-49 demo 316K to 309K.
Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends lost 64K total viewers and lost 17K in 18-49 demo.
Sasha Banks vs Io Shirai gained 118K total viewers and gained 40K in the 18-49 demo.

Sasha vs Io: 900K
Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends: 645K


You can't blame that on Omega/Page. You can't put mid card tag team like Best Friends in main event. If it's Omega/Page vs Bucks or FTR things are different. IMO if AEW doesn't want the ratings to drop a little more. 


Once NBA and Baseball is back next month. They need to stop this conservative booking of tv. It's ok to have big match ups on tv. Especially when you only do four ppvs a year. Right now feels like we will never see one on one match on tv with Moxley, Cody, Omega, Page, Jericho or MJF. When you are going head to head with another workrate wrestling show. You can't keep booking like this. Not when the other show is giving bigger match ups. AEW has bigger stars then NXT and needs to use them in big matches to take away their audience. Instead of giving people a reason to watch their product.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> It really is funny @prosperwithdeen when guys like @Chip Chipperson and
> Others say “bUt TnA dId oVeR a MiLliOn eVeRy WeEk” and you drop a lovely post like. It’ll still be debated every week btw, but at least I can refer to somebody who is actually in the business, knows what they are talking about and is able to discuss it in an objective manner.
> 
> The evidence is there of dropping cable subscriptions, the peak of subscriptions being 2009. That was over 11 years ago.


Because prosperwithdeen is certainly an objective poster and doesn't have a clear bias, lol.

I enjoyed his post also but as The Wood pointed out a lot of that stuff are indeed things brought up in the past. For example, I mentioned many a time on here that NXT would have the bigger overall rating because of streaming, illegal streaming, the network etc and it was ignored. Also, as a guy that studied both audio and video production I learned how to format radio and television I literally rewrote the first 30 minutes of Dynamite a few weeks back showing how to format it, why things should be in certain places, how AEW could maintain or increase their quarterlies and nobody cared (Except my supporters) because it was negative towards AEW and I said they had no idea.

Now suddenly Prosperwithdeen comes out with an insightful post which is pretty complimentary towards AEW and it's suddenly taken as gospel, lol.

In regards to TNA I know this may be hard to believe but TNA also had a large amount of people recording, illegally streaming etc. I know this to be true because I used to illegally stream Impact because it'd air on 2 day delay here in Australia and I wanted to watch live and there would be hundreds of people commenting in the stream chat. I remember a few people would upload the replay on YouTube and it would always have six figure views week to week (Usually 200,000 - 300,000 if I recall correctly) so if you want to get super technical TNA did 1 million on TV and just like AEW, NXT, WWE and many other shows they probably did a significant amount through other avenues also. 

Keep in mind TNA also aired in something like 80 to 100 countries so that over a million domestically on Spike plus the people who watched via other avenues plus all the viewers internationally who watched on television is your real number.


----------



## RapShepard

ElTerrible said:


> They have the digital data, too. Digital advertising is a much more accurate medium, cause you can measure, track and target every individual, unlike TV where it´s just a small panel from which the overall ratings are extrapolated. The money is shifting from the classical media to digital, especially VOD, but for now the big budgets are still in TV, so it´s important for WWE/AEW and the TV channels to get their numbers.


I guess that makes sense then


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because prosperwithdeen is certainly an objective poster and doesn't have a clear bias, lol.
> 
> I enjoyed his post also but as The Wood pointed out a lot of that stuff are indeed things brought up in the past. For example, I mentioned many a time on here that NXT would have the bigger overall rating because of streaming, illegal streaming, the network etc and it was ignored. Also, as a guy that studied both audio and video production I learned how to format radio and television I literally rewrote the first 30 minutes of Dynamite a few weeks back showing how to format it, why things should be in certain places, how AEW could maintain or increase their quarterlies and nobody cared (Except my supporters) because it was negative towards AEW and I said they had no idea.
> 
> Now suddenly Prosperwithdeen comes out with an insightful post which is pretty complimentary towards AEW and it's suddenly taken as gospel, lol.
> 
> In regards to TNA I know this may be hard to believe but TNA also had a large amount of people recording, illegally streaming etc. I know this to be true because I used to illegally stream Impact because it'd air on 2 day delay here in Australia and I wanted to watch live and there would be hundreds of people commenting in the stream chat. I remember a few people would upload the replay on YouTube and it would always have six figure views week to week (Usually 200,000 - 300,000 if I recall correctly) so if you want to get super technical TNA did 1 million on TV and just like AEW, NXT, WWE and many other shows they probably did a significant amount through other avenues also.
> 
> Keep in mind TNA also aired in something like 80 to 100 countries so that over a million domestically on Spike plus the people who watched via other avenues plus all the viewers internationally who watched on television is your real number.


Yeah, I thought it was pretty disrespectful that so many people bitch and complain about our negative posts, yet none of them ever comment on the positive ones or constructive posts like that thread you made discussing formatting or my idea of using one angle per week to “set the stage” for each episode in a way that focuses on two of the top 6-7.

But we shouldn’t be surprised. The Fyter Feat thread started with the typical crowd laughing about how we’d find a way to shit all over the show, and they were hush when they come in to find that we were all mostly posting glowing reviews, not even a simple “wow, I’m surprised you are admitting to enjoying this one so much”, but if they did that, they’d have to then admit that our past criticisms weren’t genuine, even if they disagree with them.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> AEW's Main Event slightly won the 18-49 demo 316K to 309K.
> Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends lost 64K total viewers and lost 17K in 18-49 demo.
> Sasha Banks vs Io Shirai gained 118K total viewers and gained 40K in the 18-49 demo.
> 
> Sasha vs Io: 900K
> Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends: 645K
> 
> 
> You can't blame that on Omega/Page. You can't put mid card tag team like Best Friends in main event. If it's Omega/Page vs Bucks or FTR things are different. IMO if AEW doesn't want the ratings to drop a little more.
> 
> 
> Once NBA and Baseball is back next month. They need to stop this conservative booking of tv. It's ok to have big match ups on tv. Especially when you only do four ppvs a year. Right now feels like we will never see one on one match on tv with Moxley, Cody, Omega, Page, Jericho or MJF. When you are going head to head with another workrate wrestling show. You can't keep booking like this. Not when the other show is giving bigger match ups. AEW has bigger stars then NXT and needs to use them in big matches to take away their audience. Instead of giving people a reason to watch their product.


The NBA being back is going to be hell for both shows. I don't even know if it's really worth going all out as I don't think that'll really save them from losing fans honestly. I can't think of a single realistic match either show could do that I'd miss the NBA and NBA playoffs for


----------



## Erik.

Yeah, great post prosper.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The NBA being back is going to be hell for both shows. I don't even know if it's really worth going all out as I don't think that'll really save them from losing fans honestly. I can't think of a single realistic match either show could do that I'd miss the NBA and NBA playoffs for


I expect them to take a beating in the ratings due to the NBA, because I know how most NBA fans are. I would normally be right there with you, but hoops haven’t been the same since Kobe retired and, even before that, the league began pushing the “freedom of movement“ rule to allow ballhandlers complete autonomy over the game. Steph Curry and James Harden being 2 of the top 6 players in the world just doesn’t sit right with me knowing they’d struggle more even a decade ago.

All that coupled with Kobe’s death..? I just don’t care about NBA anymore. It just isn’t the same.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because prosperwithdeen is certainly an objective poster and doesn't have a clear bias, lol.
> 
> I enjoyed his post also but as The Wood pointed out a lot of that stuff are indeed things brought up in the past. For example, I mentioned many a time on here that NXT would have the bigger overall rating because of streaming, illegal streaming, the network etc and it was ignored. Also, as a guy that studied both audio and video production I learned how to format radio and television I literally rewrote the first 30 minutes of Dynamite a few weeks back showing how to format it, why things should be in certain places, how AEW could maintain or increase their quarterlies and nobody cared (Except my supporters) because it was negative towards AEW and I said they had no idea.
> 
> Now suddenly Prosperwithdeen comes out with an insightful post which is pretty complimentary towards AEW and it's suddenly taken as gospel, lol.
> 
> In regards to TNA I know this may be hard to believe but TNA also had a large amount of people recording, illegally streaming etc. I know this to be true because I used to illegally stream Impact because it'd air on 2 day delay here in Australia and I wanted to watch live and there would be hundreds of people commenting in the stream chat. I remember a few people would upload the replay on YouTube and it would always have six figure views week to week (Usually 200,000 - 300,000 if I recall correctly) so if you want to get super technical TNA did 1 million on TV and just like AEW, NXT, WWE and many other shows they probably did a significant amount through other avenues also.
> 
> Keep in mind TNA also aired in something like 80 to 100 countries so that over a million domestically on Spike plus the people who watched via other avenues plus all the viewers internationally who watched on television is your real number.


Like I said, the peak of cable subscriptions were around that time.
If people are able to watch it on TV, they will. The ratings are simply incomparable from. 10 years ago to today.
Are we going to compare the highest rating ever of almost 100 million back in the 80s to today? No of course not.


----------



## bdon

MASH is the greatest television show of all-time and absolutely the pinnacle of storytelling. Lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> MASH is the greatest television show of all-time and absolutely the pinnacle of storytelling. Lol


We will be talking about GoT in the same manner in 40 years time.


----------



## rbl85

i'll give you all the quarters in an hour (more or less)


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> We will be talking about GoT in the same manner in 40 years time.


Ugh. Fuck that show. I literally binged through 2, maybe 3 seasons over a week’s time once on my friends’ suggestions that “it picks up, give it time”.

I finally just stopped. Waste of my time.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Ugh. Fuck that show. I literally binged through 2, maybe 3 seasons over a week’s time once on my friends’ suggestions that “it picks up, give it time”.
> 
> I finally just stopped. Waste of my time.


i haven't watched it lol, but i am aware of its cultural impact.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

but see, @Chip Chipperson was arguing that you can compare TNA's 1 million (in 2009) to AEW's 700k (in 2020).









TV Long View: Five Years of Network Ratings Declines in Context


A new TV season begins Monday, and with it, probably, another season of linear ratings declines for the broadcast networks. That’s not exactly news: Nielsen numbers have been on the wane for …




www.hollywoodreporter.com






> In the Nielsen ratings for 2018-19, the broadcast networks averaged 28.5 million viewers in primetime, a decline of 7.3 million viewers (20 percent) since 2014-15. The drop-off among adults 18-49 was steeper, falling 35 percent to a 6.2 rating.


Shows like wrestling are more likely to suffer the consequences of this change in watching behaviour. TNA and AEW especially, as their main viewers are the younger population. Just in 4/5 years, there was a decline in 20% in total viewership; and a total of 35% in that 18-49 demo.

So if you consider that AEW is averaging 700k and TNA were doing 1 million 11 years ago, you could argue that AEW are doing much better than TNA at their prime, lol. But hey ho, if you wanna be subjective about this stuff, go ahead. I was a fan of TNA. I am a fan of AEW.


----------



## karebear

I've heard that private party vs omega and hangman is going to main event next, that is crazy if true, surely it will be the 8 man tag match if they want to try and stop any fans switching over to cole vs lee?


----------



## shadow_spinner

Jericho went on twitter to explain the demos and why they are important, to give his show a moral victory. If someone like Rollins did the same for WWE they would be ripped to shreds by fans online.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

shadow_spinner said:


> Jericho went on twitter to explain the demos and why they are important, to give his show a moral victory. If someone like Rollins did the same for WWE they would be ripped to shreds by fans online.


because one is rollins and one is jericho, lol. Now if Omega did it, that's another thing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> because one is rollins and one is jericho, lol. Now if Omega did it, that's another thing.


Lol - this

It is Jericho

imagine if the YB did it


----------



## TD Stinger

Difference is that you can tell Jericho is trying to troll people. With Rollins 9/10 times he’s being completely serious.

And besides, Jericho has said far dumber things in the past month than this.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> AEW's Main Event slightly won the 18-49 demo 316K to 309K.
> Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends lost 64K total viewers and lost 17K in 18-49 demo.


Very baffling that AEW went with 4 proven ratings killers in the main event.


----------



## rbl85

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand ignore.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Very baffling that AEW went with 4 proven ratings killers in the main event.


RENT FREE!!!


----------



## bdon

I’d love an explanation as to what it is about Omega that makes WWE fans or former WWE fans all feel some type of way.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I’d love an explanation as to what it is about Omega that makes WWE fans or former WWE fans all feel some type of way.


he didn't sign with WWE.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I’d love an explanation as to what it is about Omega that makes WWE fans or former WWE fans all feel some type of way.


Former WWE fan here. What does this even mean? Dude acts like a dork and can't take himself seriously. He dresses like shit, he speaks like shit and he has a hissy fit on the internet every few weeks. He could be one of the greats but he's lazy, uncreative and wants to fuck around making stupid faces. What type of way do they feel? I've seen you say they feel a certain type of way before without going into detail about what that certain type of way is. I have plenty of answers if you can ask the question in a better put together way.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

For me personally I'm pretty half half on Omega.

The good half is that he's a good talent, relatively good looking dude and looks like an athlete (Although Cult is right that he dresses like shit outside of his ring gear).

The bad half is that he's pretty overrated, a bit of a geek and comes across like a pompous asshole on Twitter and in interviews. Loves to get involved in some comedy also which grinds my gears.

Personally I like Hangman much more than Kenny.


----------



## Rozzop

Wrestling died after WCW folded and the Monday Night Wars ended. 

For this thread to have 305 pages about two products that attact 600-800k fans is hilarious.


----------



## rbl85

Last week first :

Q1 : Wardlow vs. Luchasaurus lumberjack match : 744K / NXT Q1 : Cameron Grimes vs. Damien Priest plus Timothy Thatcher : 794K 
Q2 : Hikaru Shida vs. Red Velvet, the Shida-Penelope Ford brawl and the Cody and Jake Hager press conference : 682K (loss of 62K) / NXT Q2 : Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas and the Undisputed Era psychiatrist segment : 676K (loss of 118K)
Q3 : Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Janela & Kiss vs. Brodie Lee & Colt Cabana : 647K (loss of 35K) / NXT Q3 : Malcolm Bivens with Rinku & Saurav and a video package promoting the three-way main event : 742K (gain of 66K)
Q4 : FTR vs. Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian : 606K (loss of 41K) / NXT Q4 : Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez vs. Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter : 795K (gain of 53K)
Q5 : ending of FTR vs. Daniels & Kazarian, the post-match brawl with the Young Bucks and Butcher & Blade, as well as a promotional package for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Best Friends : 630k (gain of 24K) / NXT Q5 : Karrion Kross vs. Bronson Red, an Adam Cole interview and Rhea Ripley vs. Aliyah : 814K (gain of 19K)
Q6 : Jon Moxley promo and Brian Cage vs. Joe Cruz. : 618K (loss of 12K) / NXT Q6 :Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumis and a vignette with Robert Stone, Aliyah, William Regal and Rhea Ripley. 812K (loss of 2K)
Q7 : Matt Hardy vs. Santana : 578K (loss of 40K) / NXT : beginning of Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 801K (loss of 11K)
Q8 : Jericho and Orange : 548K (loss of 30K) / NXT : Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 852K (gain of 51K)


----------



## P Thriller

If anything was proven on Wednesday, it is that Sasha Banks is a superstar and they were stupid to sit on her for 5 years. She single handedly just destroyed AEW in the ratings. She drew far more than Charlotte ever dreamed of drawing. So I dont want to hear any more comments about women not being able to draw. Sasha Banks was the biggest star on either show Wednesday and the ratings reflected that. She was just thrown into a match with no buildup and still drew almost a million viewers. Oh and I like Kenny Omega a lot but he might want to stop talking crap for a little bit given the beating that Sasha just gave him.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Former WWE fan here. What does this even mean? Dude acts like a dork and can't take himself seriously. He dresses like shit, he speaks like shit and he has a hissy fit on the internet every few weeks. He could be one of the greats but he's lazy, uncreative and wants to fuck around making stupid faces. What type of way do they feel? I've seen you say they feel a certain type of way before without going into detail about what that certain type of way is. I have plenty of answers if you can ask the question in a better put together way.


Your reasons are fair, which I didn’t even know you were a WWE fan to be honest.

I am speaking specifically about those that are wayyyyyy too in their feelings about Kenny Omega. Jilted lover syndrome, but as many superstars as WWE has, surely I wouldn’t imagine him choosing to not go there isn’t the sole reason, right?

You see it on Twitter, in here with a select few, etc. They have no reason to bother with him. He shouldn’t be on their radar, yet he lives in their head RENT fucking FREE.

Now I’ll be the first to say Cody is a piece of shit, and I absolutely feel some type of way about him and his BS booking, specifically due to hating his HHH shit when I don’t...fucking...want...to watch...WWE...bullshit!

But for whatever reason, certain fans are really, really bothered by Omega’s mere existence.


----------



## rbl85

This week :

Q1 : Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy vs. Wardlow & MJF : 799K / NXT : Dakota Kai vs. Tegan Nox vs. Candice LeRae vs. Mia Yim : 839K
Q2 : Lance Archer/Joey Janela quick brawl, a promo package, beginning of Penelope Ford vs. Hikaru Shida : 727K (loss of 72K) / NXT : end of the women’s four-way match and a Damien Priest interview : 788K (loss of 51K)
Q3 : Shida vs. Ford : 787K (gain of 60K) / NXT : Timothy Thatcher vs. Oney Lorcan : 702K (loss of 86K)
Q4 : beginning of Cody vs. Jake Hager : 783K (loss of 4K) / NXT : Rhea Ripley vs. Robert Stone & Aliyah. : 764K (gain of 62K)
Q5 : Cody vs Hager, Darby Allin video and the beginning of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz : 814K (gain of 31K) / NXT : Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumis : 776K (gain of 12K)
Q6 : ending of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz : 724K (loss of 90K) / NXT :end of Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumia : 784K (gain of 8K)
Q7 : plugging next week and the beginning of Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 709K (loss of 15K) : NXT : beginning of Shirai vs. Banks : 782K (loss of 2K)
Q8 : Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 645K (loss of 64K) / NXT : IO vs Sasha : 900K (gain of 118K)

In the last 3 quarters the viewers loss of AEW were at 60-70% 50+ viewers while the gain of NXT were 60-70% 50+ viewers.

Also the gains of every match involving women were 50+ viewers.


----------



## rbl85

P Thriller said:


> If anything was proven on Wednesday, *it is that Sasha Banks is a superstar *and they were stupid to sit on her for 5 years. She single handedly just destroyed AEW in the ratings. She drew far more than Charlotte ever dreamed of drawing. So I dont want to hear any more comments about women not being able to draw. Sasha Banks was the biggest star on either show Wednesday and the ratings reflected that. She was just thrown into a match with no buildup and still drew almost a million viewers. Oh and I like Kenny Omega a lot but he might want to stop talking crap for a little bit given the beating that Sasha just gave him.


Unless WWE is interested in 50+ viewers not really.

Also her segments on the main roster are not doing better than this other.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Q8 : Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 645K (loss of 64K) / NXT : IO vs Sasha : 900K (gain of 118K)


God damn. Imagine getting obliterated to such a degree by Sasha Banks. 

There's no coming back from this for those involved.


----------



## bdon

^ Case in point


----------



## Chip Chipperson

What I've noticed with AEW is that the ratings kind of go through the same rollercoaster of emotions that I do whilst watching.

Usually for me I tune in and I'm pumped that they'll do good, they often start with an interesting segment and then throughout the show I slowly lose interest. Ratings seem to show that with them every week also.

RBL, thank you for posting these every week. You the real MVP.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> What I've noticed with AEW is that the ratings kind of go through the same rollercoaster of emotions that I do whilst watching.
> 
> Usually for me I tune in and I'm pumped that they'll do good, they often start with an interesting segment and then throughout the show I slowly lose interest. Ratings seem to show that with them every week also.
> 
> RBL, thank you for posting these every week. You the real MVP.


You're welcome.

Now that lost of interest might come from the fact that the world champ is not used enough ?


----------



## Hephaesteus

rbl85 said:


> Unless WWE is interested in 50+ viewers not really.
> 
> Also her segments on the main roster are not doing better than this other.


She's picking up more than the 50+ as evidenced above and she's doing all this in spite of her ridiculous booking of the past 5 years. Yea might not be becky lynch levels, but still quite impressive considering .


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Last week first :
> 
> Q1 : Wardlow vs. Luchasaurus lumberjack match : 744K / NXT Q1 : Cameron Grimes vs. Damien Priest plus Timothy Thatcher : 794K
> Q2 : Hikaru Shida vs. Red Velvet, the Shida-Penelope Ford brawl and the Cody and Jake Hager press conference : 682K (loss of 62K) / NXT Q2 : Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas and the Undisputed Era psychiatrist segment : 676K (loss of 118K)
> Q3 : Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Janela & Kiss vs. Brodie Lee & Colt Cabana : 647K (loss of 35K) / NXT Q3 : Malcolm Bivens with Rinku & Saurav and a video package promoting the three-way main event : 742K (gain of 66K)
> *Q4 : FTR vs. Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian : 606K (loss of 41K) / NXT Q4 : Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez vs. Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter : 795K (gain of 53K)*
> Q5 : ending of FTR vs. Daniels & Kazarian, the post-match brawl with the Young Bucks and Butcher & Blade, as well as a promotional package for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Best Friends : 630k (gain of 24K) / NXT Q5 : Karrion Kross vs. Bronson Red, an Adam Cole interview and Rhea Ripley vs. Aliyah : 814K (gain of 19K)
> Q6 : Jon Moxley promo and Brian Cage vs. Joe Cruz. : 618K (loss of 12K) / NXT Q6 :Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumis and a vignette with Robert Stone, Aliyah, William Regal and Rhea Ripley. 812K (loss of 2K)
> Q7 : Matt Hardy vs. Santana : 578K (loss of 40K) / NXT : beginning of Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 801K (loss of 11K)
> Q8 : Jericho and Orange : 548K (loss of 30K) / NXT : Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 852K (gain of 51K)


Seeing the revival lose badly to a women's tag team match is funny.


----------



## Hephaesteus

But what the ratings tell us is that viewers prefer the aew men and the nxt women. So if either company managed to mix both...


----------



## rbl85

Hephaesteus said:


> She's picking up more than the 50+ as evidenced above and she's doing all this in spite of her ridiculous booking of the past 5 years. Yea might not be becky lynch levels, but still quite impressive considering .


Well 60-70% are 50+ And you also have the fact that there was no commercial during the Io vs Shirai.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Unless WWE is interested in 50+ viewers not really.
> 
> Also her segments on the main roster are not doing better than this other.


Why wouldn't they be exactly? Does their money suddenly become worthless passed the age of 50? 

Do they not fill up seats at their shows, buy merch and subscribe the network? This notion of less is more because they're under 50 is fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Now that lost of interest might come from the fact that the world champ is not used enough ?


It very well could be. I know as a Moxley fan I'd be looking forward to the main event segment if Moxley was involved.


----------



## Hephaesteus

rbl85 said:


> Well 60-70% are 50+ And you also have the fact that there was no commercial during the Io vs Shirai.


Unless Im reading the ratings wrong, she was also eating into their other age groups too, particularly the one that was supposed to be desirable and I doubt that commercials had a huge effect since for the most part only part of the audience that was watching the show would know about that at the time.


----------



## rbl85

Hephaesteus said:


> Unless Im reading the ratings wrong, she was also eating into their other age groups too, particularly the one that was supposed to be desirable and I doubt that commercials had a huge effect since for the most part only part of the audience that was watching the show would know about that at the time.


Well if 60-70% of your gain are 50+ then automatically 30-40% are not 50+

But still more young viewers prefered to watch AEW main event than Io vs Sasha.


----------



## Hephaesteus

rbl85 said:


> Well if 60-70% of your gain are 50+ then automatically 30-40% are not 50+
> 
> But still more young viewers prefered to watch AEW main event than Io vs Sasha.


Did they or did they have enough of a head start where io/sasha had way too much ground to make up to catch up in those categories to even think about winning those particular categories?


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> This week :
> 
> Q1 : Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy vs. Wardlow & MJF : 799K / NXT : Dakota Kai vs. Tegan Nox vs. Candice LeRae vs. Mia Yim : 839K
> Q2 : Lance Archer/Joey Janela quick brawl, a promo package, beginning of Penelope Ford vs. Hikaru Shida : 727K (loss of 72K) / NXT : end of the women’s four-way match and a Damien Priest interview : 788K (loss of 51K)
> Q3 : Shida vs. Ford : 787K *(gain of 60K)* / NXT : Timothy Thatcher vs. Oney Lorcan : 702K (loss of 86K)
> Q4 : beginning of Cody vs. Jake Hager : 783K (loss of 4K) / NXT : Rhea Ripley vs. Robert Stone & Aliyah. : 764K (gain of 62K)
> Q5 : Cody vs Hager, Darby Allin video and the beginning of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz : 814K (gain of 31K) / NXT : Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumis : 776K (gain of 12K)
> Q6 : ending of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz : 724K* (loss of 90K) */ NXT :end of Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumia : 784K (gain of 8K)
> Q7 : plugging next week and the beginning of Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 709K (loss of 15K) : NXT : beginning of Shirai vs. Banks : 782K (loss of 2K)
> Q8 : Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 645K *(loss of 64K)* / NXT : IO vs Sasha : 900K (gain of 118K)
> 
> In the last 3 quarters the viewers loss of AEW were at 60-70% 50+ viewers while the gain of NXT were 60-70% 50+ viewers.
> 
> Also the gains of every match involving women were 50+ viewers.


So yeah. The 2 clear weak points of this were LAX/PP, it was obviously a throwaway match and it had no business being on the card, and Chuck Taylor should not be main eventing anything.

I hope Omega is happy waiting for his stardome to shine, what a fucking geek, he ruined himself and he has no one to blame but himself.



bdon said:


> I’d love an explanation as to what it is about Omega that makes WWE fans or former WWE fans all feel some type of way.


My problem with Omega beyond some of his cringy antics and facials is simple.
Who the fuck does he think he is???? What an oversized ego and stupid booking decision he made.

Let me put it this way, AEW started, and Omega was one of the big stars of the show, basically, anyone in the US who knew and heard of "Kenny Omega" was going to watch AEW. 
His focus when AEW started should have been to take this strong base he has and increase it, does he think his fanbase is bigger than Y2J or Mox? or that it overlaps a lot? Hell No. Those 2 guys have a larger fan-base and their fans checking out AEW, and seeing Omega for the first time aren't going to be as impressed by him due to his booking. He wasn't able to gain new fans, he merely retained the ones who knew him from before he came to AEW, which is stupid. Had he put himself in a shining light from the begining, maybe now his star power wouldn't be so weak getting squashed in the ratings by the opposition.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> So yeah. The 2 clear weak points of this were LAX/PP, it was obviously a throwaway match and it had no business being on the card, and Chuck Taylor should not be main eventing anything.
> 
> I hope Omega is happy waiting for his stardome to shine, what a fucking geek, he ruined himself and he has no one to blame but himself.
> 
> 
> 
> My problem with Omega beyond some of his cringy antics and facials is simple.
> Who the fuck does he think he is???? What an oversized ego and stupid booking decision he made.
> 
> Let me put it this way, AEW started, and Omega was one of the big stars of the show, basically, anyone in the US who knew and heard of "Kenny Omega" was going to watch AEW.
> His focus when AEW started should have been to take this strong base he has and increase it, does he think his fanbase is bigger than Y2J or Mox? or that it overlaps a lot? Hell No. Those 2 guys have a larger fan-base and their fans checking out AEW, and seeing Omega for the first time aren't going to be as impressed by him due to his booking. He wasn't able to gain new fans, he merely retained the ones who knew him from before he came to AEW, which is stupid. Had he put himself in a shining light from the begining, maybe now his star power wouldn't be so weak getting squashed in the ratings by the opposition.


And that is something I agree with and said from the moment I saw Moxley go over. Mox had the built-in fan base from The Machine that is WWE.

Your points are all valid.

I’m speaking to those who genuinely dislike him and seem to relish in any way to mock him. How is he important enough to care so strongly..?


----------



## RainmakerV2

According to someone at the show, Jericho vs. Cassidy went last. Doesnt mean it will on TV, but if they really put that last up against the double title match after the number those two pulled 2 weeks ago, Tony Khan is one tone deaf motherfucker.


----------



## bdon

I can understand Cornette being pissed about Omega pulling the no-show on him. I can understand those that simply don’t like his style, because it isn’t for everyone. I can understand the facial expressions, the way he talks, etc. 

But there is a subset of fans that actively seek to shit on Kenny Omega, which you also see on Twitter and WWE with a guy like Seth Rollins I suppose.

For instance, when there is a hyped match in WWE, I’ll check Twitter for results, comments, etc, just to see if it is worth my time to watch. I am no WWE fan, but they do have 1-2 matches a year that get enough publicity that I need to watch.

Anyways, I see someone on Twitter go out of their way, on a WWE-related topic, tagging Omega and discussing how Edge and Orton showed what a real 5 star match is. I couldn’t help but laugh.

Like, maybe it is a generational thing, but I just don’t see the need to discuss and try to discredit what I don’t like if it doesn’t affect me. Before you say it, fuck Vince McMahon for burying WCW the way he did and the evils he has done over the years and fuck Cody Rhodes for doing things that affect my favorite show, but I am not going to shit on Roman Reigns for having 4 moves or Charlotte Flair for wrestling the same formulaic match as Reigns.

I don’t know. It just always strikes me as odd how offended certain people are by Omega’s existence. Maybe it’s homophobia, maybe it’s Meltzer overrating his (and everything else) in New Japan? Maybe it really is as simple as Omega never joining WWE.

Just weird.


----------



## rbl85

rbl85 said:


> Well if 60-70% of your gain are 50+ then automatically 30-40% are not 50+





RainmakerV2 said:


> According to someone at the show, Jericho vs. Cassidy went last. Doesnt mean it will on TV, but if they really put that last up against the double title match after the number those two pulled 2 weeks ago, Tony Khan is one tone deaf motherfucker.


AEW was already below 600K before the Jericho Orange angle


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> AEW was already below 600K before the Jericho Orange angle


Spare me. A record low is a record low. If they really put that last against Lee vs. Cole for both belts they might as well just bend over and volunteer to be sodomized with a rusty fishing knife.


----------



## shadow_spinner

rbl85 said:


> Q6 : ending of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz : 724K (loss of 90K) / NXT :end of Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumia : 784K (gain of 8K)
> Q7 : plugging next week and the beginning of Omega & Page vs. Best Friends : 709K (loss of 15K) : NXT : beginning of Shirai vs. Banks : 782K (loss of 2K)


WTF happened in Q6? AEW was ahead in viewers since the Shida match (Q2) and this was when the tide turned in NXT's favor. Also Q7 losing some viewers I believe had to be since right before the last match they had that segment with Santos Escobar so I can see some tuning out who weren't interested in that moment.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RainmakerV2 said:


> Spare me. A record low is a record low. If they really put that last against Lee vs. Cole for both belts they might as well just bend over and volunteer to be sodomized with a rusty fishing knife.


Have you seen the card? It's a disaster. They don't really have a choice but to put Jericho in the main event.


----------



## shadow_spinner

rbl85 said:


> Last week first :
> 
> Q1 : Wardlow vs. Luchasaurus lumberjack match : 744K / NXT Q1 : Cameron Grimes vs. Damien Priest plus Timothy Thatcher : 794K
> Q2 : Hikaru Shida vs. Red Velvet, the Shida-Penelope Ford brawl and the Cody and Jake Hager press conference : 682K (loss of 62K) / NXT Q2 : Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas and the Undisputed Era psychiatrist segment : 676K (loss of 118K)
> Q3 : Joey Janela & Sonny Kiss vignette and Janela & Kiss vs. Brodie Lee & Colt Cabana : 647K (loss of 35K) / NXT Q3 : Malcolm Bivens with Rinku & Saurav and a video package promoting the three-way main event : 742K (gain of 66K)
> Q4 : FTR vs. Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian : 606K (loss of 41K) / NXT Q4 : Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez vs. Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter : 795K (gain of 53K)
> Q5 : ending of FTR vs. Daniels & Kazarian, the post-match brawl with the Young Bucks and Butcher & Blade, as well as a promotional package for Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Best Friends : 630k (gain of 24K) / NXT Q5 : Karrion Kross vs. Bronson Red, an Adam Cole interview and Rhea Ripley vs. Aliyah : 814K (gain of 19K)
> Q6 : Jon Moxley promo and Brian Cage vs. Joe Cruz. : 618K (loss of 12K) / NXT Q6 :Roderick Strong vs. Dexter Lumis and a vignette with Robert Stone, Aliyah, William Regal and Rhea Ripley. 812K (loss of 2K)
> Q7 : Matt Hardy vs. Santana : 578K (loss of 40K) / NXT : beginning of Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 801K (loss of 11K)
> Q8 : Jericho and Orange : 548K (loss of 30K) / NXT : Keith Lee vs. Johnny Gargano vs. Finn Balor : 852K (gain of 51K)


Do you get the numbers from the Observer?


----------



## rbl85

shadow_spinner said:


> Do you get the numbers from the Observer?


Yes


----------



## rbl85

shadow_spinner said:


> WTF happened in Q6? AEW was ahead in viewers since the Shida match (Q2) and this was when the tide turned in NXT's favor. Also Q7 losing some viewers I believe had to be since right before the last match they had that segment with Santos Escobar so I can see some tuning out who weren't interested in that moment.


People are just not interested in PP and PnP


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> Unless WWE is interested in 50+ viewers not really.
> 
> Also her segments on the main roster are not doing better than this other.


proof?


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> proof?


If she was a superstar every segments with her should gain viewers and that's not the case. 

When you put her in the third hour of Raw,this hour is doing sub 1.6M, if she was a superstar that wouldn't be the case.


----------



## shadow_spinner

The thing that stands out that people really love women's wrestling on both shows going by the ratings during those segments. Which is great. Every womens match both weeks gained viewers.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> If she was a superstar every segments with her should gain viewers and that's not the case.
> 
> When you put her in the third hour of Raw,this hour is doing sub 1.6M, if she was a superstar that wouldn't be the case.


I dont do da numbers outside what is posted here. So didnt know it was dat low. Her fans act like she Jericho in dem Attitude Era. 😂


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> I dont do da numbers outside what is posted here. So didnt know it was dat low. Her fans act like she Jericho in dem Attitude Era. 😂


She's really popular within the wrestling bubble but that's all.


----------



## RapShepard

shadow_spinner said:


> Jericho went on twitter to explain the demos and why they are important, to give his show a moral victory. If someone like Rollins did the same for WWE they would be ripped to shreds by fans online.


Tbf plenty of folk called him out for appearing salty


----------



## Rozzop

Put Riley Reid in the main event of NXT and she would draw more than Sasha.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Appreciate the time took man. I have no response not because it's not good, but because it's out of my depth. I guess my only question is, what's taking Nielson so long to adapt


No problem man lol, bored in quarantine and had an extra 30 minutes to type up something that would make sense to anyone who decided to read. With Nielson, it's honestly too late, more and more people are not getting cable so there's no point. The best thing to do is focus on digital advertising numbers, which is far more accurate as @ElTerrible said.




LifeInCattleClass said:


> This whole post should just be on sticky / and as a digital marketer same as Prosper I can confirm a lot of this / although I see less of what he sees working mainly in Europe - so, good on you Prosper
> 
> In the end, the only CONSISTENT metric through the ages - how you can compare 70s, 80s, 90s, and current wrestling is:
> 
> 1. What is the gate count per head
> 2. What are the merch numbers
> 
> the rest is heavily changeable


Thanks lol, gate counts and merch numbers are very important indicators on how promotions are doing. Social media engagement and PPV buy rates go right along with that.



optikk sucks said:


> It really is funny @prosperwithdeen when guys like @Chip Chipperson and
> Others say “bUt TnA dId oVeR a MiLliOn eVeRy WeEk” and you drop a lovely post like. It’ll still be debated every week btw, but at least I can refer to somebody who is actually in the business, knows what they are talking about and is able to discuss it in an objective manner.
> 
> The evidence is there of dropping cable subscriptions, the peak of subscriptions being 2009. That was over 11 years ago.


Appreciate it, yeah I know people will still continue to debate, for me I kind of just have to let people believe what they want to believe, there's no reason for me to call people out and re-explain the things I explained in my lengthy post to everyone who posts something completely off-base. Most of them don't know any better.



The Wood said:


> You’re welcome to leave.
> 
> I appreciate you posting, prosperwithdeen, but that’s basically what a few people (myself included) have been saying (and mocked for). Where I will disagree with you is how relevant that that illegal audience is and how readily they can be monetised. And they have lost half their live audience, and it goes to follow that they’ve probably lost half their illegal audience too. It’s not like people watched on TNT and then thought “this was good” and then decided to jump onto illegal streaming sites.


No problem man, to be fair, I have seen you and @Chip Chipperson post some of the stuff that I posted, and you both have been correct on multiple occasions, but there are also others who are completely off-base with everything regarding ratings, and it's quite funny reading comments like that.

The illegal audience will be very hard to monetize because they see no need to spend $50 for a PPV, $10 for the WWE Network, or $100/month for cable when they can just get it for free. A lot of the people that watched on TNT on their debut night like I said were WWE watchers. Both companies share an audience. The people that watched AEW on night one weren't "new" viewers who watched and decided they didn't want to watch next week. Their baseline is definitely in the 900K-1Mil range, which means that AEW still has work to do to make up some of the live audience they lost. But they put on a very strong debut show. Their first set of 3-5 shows were all very good. So where did those people go the following couple of weeks? They either decided to watch online on their own time or they decided to continue watching the 5-7 hours of WWE they are already watching, which is already overkill for one week. A lot of those WWE loyalists probably get their WWE fix in first, then decide to watch AEW later. There's no way to gauge these things. The only evidence is site traffic and social media engagement. 




rbl85 said:


> I think some people are interested enough to watch the highlights of the show (or only matches that interest them) but not enough interested to watch 2 hours. (it's the same for RAW, SDL and NXT).
> 
> Now the question is what would make those people decide to watch the shows live and i don't have the answer.


Times have become too convenient. People are still watching live, they're just not doing so on cable TV. It doesn't matter how great AEW content is, it will NEVER be so good that someone decides to pay $100/month for a cable box lol. It would just mean that the streaming sites get more traffic and the buy rates go up for people who genuinely think that the content is so good that they want to buy.



bdon said:


> @prosperwithdeen really appreciate the post. That was an awesome breakdown.
> 
> And no, I have not watched a single episode of Dynamite on old school cable television. I have watched every episode on the AT&T TV app as we’ve been in the process of selling our home for a while and living in an apartment roughly an hour away while looking for a new home. Literally not one episode.
> 
> But yeah, man. Great post.


Thanks man, hope everything works out with the house.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Because prosperwithdeen is certainly an objective poster and doesn't have a clear bias, lol.
> 
> I enjoyed his post also but as The Wood pointed out a lot of that stuff are indeed things brought up in the past. For example, I mentioned many a time on here that NXT would have the bigger overall rating because of streaming, illegal streaming, the network etc and it was ignored. Also, as a guy that studied both audio and video production I learned how to format radio and television I literally rewrote the first 30 minutes of Dynamite a few weeks back showing how to format it, why things should be in certain places, how AEW could maintain or increase their quarterlies and nobody cared (Except my supporters) because it was negative towards AEW and I said they had no idea.
> 
> Now suddenly Prosperwithdeen comes out with an insightful post which is pretty complimentary towards AEW and it's suddenly taken as gospel, lol.
> 
> In regards to TNA I know this may be hard to believe but TNA also had a large amount of people recording, illegally streaming etc. I know this to be true because I used to illegally stream Impact because it'd air on 2 day delay here in Australia and I wanted to watch live and there would be hundreds of people commenting in the stream chat. I remember a few people would upload the replay on YouTube and it would always have six figure views week to week (Usually 200,000 - 300,000 if I recall correctly) so if you want to get super technical TNA did 1 million on TV and just like AEW, NXT, WWE and many other shows they probably did a significant amount through other avenues also.
> 
> Keep in mind TNA also aired in something like 80 to 100 countries so that over a million domestically on Spike plus the people who watched via other avenues plus all the viewers internationally who watched on television is your real number.


If my post came off as overly biased, I didn't mean for that. I tried to remain as unbiased as possible while at the same time addressing some of the stuff that I have seen posted about AEW. (I am still an AEW hardcore at the end of the day lol). A lot of what I posted applies to WWE too though, they have actually been doing great despite their TV ratings.




bdon said:


> Yeah, I thought it was pretty disrespectful that so many people bitch and complain about our negative posts, yet none of them ever comment on the positive ones or constructive posts like that thread you made discussing formatting or my idea of using one angle per week to “set the stage” for each episode in a way that focuses on two of the top 6-7.
> 
> But we shouldn’t be surprised. The Fyter Feat thread started with the typical crowd laughing about how we’d find a way to shit all over the show, and they were hush when they come in to find that we were all mostly posting glowing reviews, not even a simple “wow, I’m surprised you are admitting to enjoying this one so much”, but if they did that, they’d have to then admit that our past criticisms weren’t genuine, even if they disagree with them.


I'll admit first that you guys were actually really positive for Fyter Fest. It was a welcome change of pace for the live threads. I kind of had already written you guys off as meme posters and over-analytical people but the Fyter Fest thread proved me wrong. Not saying that all of your previous posts have been genuine criticisms, because they haven't been, but at the same time I can look at some of your previous posts and say that some were more acceptable than I perceived them to be at first.




RapShepard said:


> The NBA being back is going to be hell for both shows. I don't even know if it's really worth going all out as I don't think that'll really save them from losing fans honestly. I can't think of a single realistic match either show could do that I'd miss the NBA and NBA playoffs for


Come on man where's your loyalty!!!! lol

Not gonna lie though NBA playoffs will be hard to miss for me too lol



Erik. said:


> Yeah, great post prosper.


Thanks Erik.



bdon said:


> I’d love an explanation as to what it is about Omega that makes WWE fans or former WWE fans all feel some type of way.


A lot of the saltiness comes from the fact that they won't be getting the dream matches they have been wanting.

Omega vs AJ Styles
Omega vs Nakamura
Omega vs Daniel Bryan
Omega vs Roman Reigns
Omega vs Rollins
Omega vs Black
Omega vs Riddle
Omega vs Kieth Lee

And the biggest one of all...Omega vs Brock Lesnar

WWE fans just lost out on all of that greatness. I even wanted to see some of those matches, but at the same time, I didn't want Omega in WWE under Vince's control. That would have been disastrous. Kenny isn't pushing himself as he should yet in AEW, but he still has given us a lot of great stuff. If he went to WWE, I doubt we'd have gotten a single good feud with Omega. Maybe a couple of good matches, but overall he would have been fucked.




Hephaesteus said:


> But what the ratings tell us is that viewers prefer the aew men and the nxt women. So if either company managed to mix both...





shadow_spinner said:


> The thing that stands out that people really love women's wrestling on both shows going by the ratings during those segments. Which is great. Every womens match both weeks gained viewers.


Women's wrestling in WWE is awesome 85% of the time. They're always the best part of the show now. If it wasn't for Becky Lynch, I wouldn't have been associated with WWE at all. It's one thing that I'm envious of being more of an AEW hardcore now. I wish AEW had WWE's entire women's division. Plus Scarlett.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> I can understand Cornette being pissed about Omega pulling the no-show on him. I can understand those that simply don’t like his style, because it isn’t for everyone. I can understand the facial expressions, the way he talks, etc.
> 
> But there is a subset of fans that actively seek to shit on Kenny Omega, which you also see on Twitter and WWE with a guy like Seth Rollins I suppose.
> 
> For instance, when there is a hyped match in WWE, I’ll check Twitter for results, comments, etc, just to see if it is worth my time to watch. I am no WWE fan, but they do have 1-2 matches a year that get enough publicity that I need to watch.
> 
> Anyways, I see someone on Twitter go out of their way, on a WWE-related topic, tagging Omega and discussing how Edge and Orton showed what a real 5 star match is. I couldn’t help but laugh.
> 
> Like, maybe it is a generational thing, but I just don’t see the need to discuss and try to discredit what I don’t like if it doesn’t affect me. Before you say it, fuck Vince McMahon for burying WCW the way he did and the evils he has done over the years and fuck Cody Rhodes for doing things that affect my favorite show, but I am not going to shit on Roman Reigns for having 4 moves or Charlotte Flair for wrestling the same formulaic match as Reigns.
> 
> I don’t know. It just always strikes me as odd how offended certain people are by Omega’s existence. Maybe it’s homophobia, maybe it’s Meltzer overrating his (and everything else) in New Japan? Maybe it really is as simple as Omega never joining WWE.
> 
> Just weird.


I think a lot is hoping to get a response. I know when I was a senior in high school sometimes me and my friends would just group up and pick one celebrity to shit on until they responded, then we'd shit on them for responding. But at 28 like you said that's just extra effort to put in for no reason.


----------



## Geeee

Seems like it was a good number for both shows this week? The most viewers watching Wednesday wrestling in a while from my recollection and they both did well in "The Demo"


----------



## Kishido

Deserved "loss"

So please change stuff already


----------



## Hephaesteus

The omega saltiness might have some fans pissed cuz of sour grapes, but there's also the subset who supports Cornette and dislikes him for either ruining the business or hate him for his wrestling pretentiousness, another subset who cant take him seriously after all the losses that he's eaten and the usual toxic twitter environment.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Next week i would do this:

1-Start the show with the Tag title match. The drama between Omega and Page could draw.
2-Next Archer vs Janela, the people like a good monster and Janela should provide a Nice semi-squash match.
3- Nyla Rose in action.
4-Jericho vs Cassidy could draw good numbers against a Mia Yim vs Candice LeRae.
5-Dark Order vs SCU could be the ratings killer moment for AEW.
6-The 8 man tag match could do a good numbers against Cole vs Keith Lee (result was leaked). FTR has their fanbase, Bucks has their fanbase and Lucha Bros aswell.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ProjectGargano said:


> Next week i would do this:
> 
> 1-Start the show with the Tag title match. The drama between Omega and Page could draw.
> 2-Next Archer vs Janela, the people like a good monster and Janela should provide a Nice semi-squash match.
> 3- Nyla Rose in action.
> 4-Jericho vs Cassidy could draw good numbers against a Mia Yim vs Candice LeRae.
> 5-Dark Order vs SCU could be the ratings killer moment for AEW.
> 6-The 8 man tag match could do a good numbers against Cole vs Keith Lee (result was leaked). FTR has their fanbase, Bucks has their fanbase and Lucha Bros aswell.


unfortunately, AEW's results have leaked, as well.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Next week i would do this:
> 
> 1-Start the show with the Tag title match. The drama between Omega and Page could draw.
> 2-Next Archer vs Janela, the people like a good monster and Janela should provide a Nice semi-squash match.
> 3- Nyla Rose in action.
> 4-Jericho vs Cassidy could draw good numbers against a Mia Tim vs Candice LeRae.
> 5-Dark Order vs SCU could be the ratings killer moment for AEW.
> 6-The 8 man tag match could do a good numbers against Cole vs Keith Lee (result was leaked). FTR has their fanbase, Bucks has their fanbase and Lucha Bros aswell.





Spoiler: spoil



This will be the order :
1- Tag titles match
2- Archer vs Janella (squash)
3- FTR/Bucks vs Lucha bro and BB
4- Nyla Rose (squash)
5- SCU vs Dark Order
6- Jericho vs Orange


----------



## ProjectGargano

optikk sucks said:


> unfortunately, AEW's results have leaked, as well.


Aff...ffs who would leak the results...in NXT was a photo from one of their performances.


----------



## ProjectGargano

rbl85 said:


> Spoiler: spoil
> 
> 
> 
> This will be the order :
> 1- Tag titles match
> 2- Archer vs Janella (squash)
> 3- FTR/Bucks vs Lucha bro and BB
> 4- Nyla Rose (squash)
> 5- SCU vs Dark Order
> 6- Jericho vs Orange


That two last matches will be killers...


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> That two last matches will be killers...


I hope you mean that in a good way lol I haven't read the spoilers, shame that both shows have been leaked


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> It's also always stupid to say AEW ever had that week one audience. If you look at breakdown it was HUGE amount of 18-49 crowd who watched that show. Which peaked I believe early in the show. They watched it once(many for only 30 minutes or less) to try and many never tried again.
> 
> 
> After that week one they did around 1m viewers for next 3 weeks which is better idea of what their audience really was. From then it slipped about 100,000 viewers. But the audience and demo were fairly consistent from October 30 though March 25th show.
> 
> So haters saying oh they lost half their audience is just flat out dumb and only comment used by hater of the company. Since many of that audience was likely never going to comeback. The key is getting back to that .40 and 1 million viewers range they were after week one. Which it seemed like they were climbing towards. But that's not going to happen during pandemic and no fans. So right now the goal should be 700-800 viewers and .30-.35 demo. They aren't gonna grow audience without fans or gain back fans who tried it for a few weeks without fans that's for sure.


Sorry, but this is a bad take. And it’s defeatist. You put on good wrestling and the people interested in seeking out good wrestling are going to stick around. 



imthegame19 said:


> AEW's Main Event slightly won the 18-49 demo 316K to 309K.
> Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends lost 64K total viewers and lost 17K in 18-49 demo.
> Sasha Banks vs Io Shirai gained 118K total viewers and gained 40K in the 18-49 demo.
> 
> Sasha vs Io: 900K
> Omega/Hangman vs Best Friends: 645K
> 
> 
> You can't blame that on Omega/Page. You can't put mid card tag team like Best Friends in main event. If it's Omega/Page vs Bucks or FTR things are different. IMO if AEW doesn't want the ratings to drop a little more.
> 
> 
> Once NBA and Baseball is back next month. They need to stop this conservative booking of tv. It's ok to have big match ups on tv. Especially when you only do four ppvs a year. Right now feels like we will never see one on one match on tv with Moxley, Cody, Omega, Page, Jericho or MJF. When you are going head to head with another workrate wrestling show. You can't keep booking like this. Not when the other show is giving bigger match ups. AEW has bigger stars then NXT and needs to use them in big matches to take away their audience. Instead of giving people a reason to watch their product.


The Best Friends are awful, but you absolutely can blame it on the ineffectiveness of Kenny Omega too. No matter what Dave Meltzer says about him, the guy is not a draw. Has he ever been a draw for AEW? The guy presents himself like a bush league wrestler, he gets interpreted as a bush league wrestler



optikk sucks said:


> Like I said, the peak of cable subscriptions were around that time.
> If people are able to watch it on TV, they will. The ratings are simply incomparable from. 10 years ago to today.
> Are we going to compare the highest rating ever of almost 100 million back in the 80s to today? No of course not.


It depends what you are comparing. Haha, by the way, where did this 100 million come from? I guess you were joking, but I think this kind of shows how uneducated a lot of people are about wrestling history and how averse they are to learning from it.

Cable subscriptions have decreased. There are more options on TV and wrestling isn’t the default for some people like it used to be. Streaming services exist and provide a back catalogue of classic material (including wrestling — I know I’ll watch classic stuff instead of modern stuff). To compare the ratings in that sense is a bit frivolous.

But when you’re talking about the general popularity and exposure of a product, _of course_ you are going to compare it back through time. TNA having a 1.1 rating (not number of viewers) meant closer to 2 million people, many casually checking them out on cable. You’re not going to find any cursory fans illegally streaming. The exposure was so much greater than AEW’s 0.2 or whatever. Especially when it comes to drumming up awareness and making new fans. A product’s inability to catch fire — whether it’s the fault of the promotion, the reality of the landscape, or the promotion’s inability to evolve with the reality of the landscape — is absolutely a valid discussion point. Stoo



optikk sucks said:


> but see, @Chip Chipperson was arguing that you can compare TNA's 1 million (in 2009) to AEW's 700k (in 2020).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TV Long View: Five Years of Network Ratings Declines in Context
> 
> 
> A new TV season begins Monday, and with it, probably, another season of linear ratings declines for the broadcast networks. That’s not exactly news: Nielsen numbers have been on the wane for …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hollywoodreporter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows like wrestling are more likely to suffer the consequences of this change in watching behaviour. TNA and AEW especially, as their main viewers are the younger population. Just in 4/5 years, there was a decline in 20% in total viewership; and a total of 35% in that 18-49 demo.
> 
> So if you consider that AEW is averaging 700k and TNA were doing 1 million 11 years ago, you could argue that AEW are doing much better than TNA at their prime, lol. But hey ho, if you wanna be subjective about this stuff, go ahead. I was a fan of TNA. I am a fan of AEW.


Wrestling used to influence media, as opposed to being influenced by it. People forget how crucial wrestling was in establishing television and cable.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ProjectGargano said:


> Aff...ffs who would leak the results...in NXT was a photo from one of their performances.


supposedly one of the privately-invited crowd members


----------



## The Wood

I think AEW’s looking in pretty bad shape for next week. Not one segment looks to be one that offers gains. Janela loses big (surprise) and if Jericho and Cassidy are the main event? Yikes.


----------



## Ace

rbl85 said:


> So i was right the main event of NXT was huge for the 50+ demo but AEW still won the quarter in the 18-49 demo.
> 
> Told you 50+ people love women matches (even the one without big names) XD
> 
> Other than that i love when Meltzer say "the newsletter will be out shortly" and 10 hours later i'm still waiting XD


Lots of creepy pervs out there.


----------



## ProjectGargano

prosperwithdeen said:


> I hope you mean that in a good way lol I haven't read the spoilers, shame that both shows have been leaked


I am talking about ratings but in a bad way...


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> If she was a superstar every segments with her should gain viewers and that's not the case.
> 
> When you put her in the third hour of Raw,this hour is doing sub 1.6M, if she was a superstar that wouldn't be the case.


No fan of Sasha since she moved to main roster but your example is very flawed.

Austin appeared in 3rd hour September 8th raw last year and it did 1.8 million viewers. Does that mean he isn't a star?

Brock, Angle, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Hogan, Vince, Jericho, rock and Austin all wrestled at Wrestlemania 19 which drew lowest ppv buys by quite a distance for a Wrestlemania between 98-2013..does that mean none of them are stars?

Banks has appeared in six different WWE broadcasts since last Friday week. Do people really go out of their way to watch every Banks appearance?


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> I am talking about ratings but in a bad way...


Well damn lol, yeah its to be expected, no Mox vs Cage means they definitely lose to Kieth Lee/Adam Cole Title Unification...no way Omega/Page vs PP or OC/Jericho beats that


----------



## validreasoning

@prosperwithdeen

Omega was a bigger name pre WWE than Bryan, Punk, Rollins..and all got strong pushes on main roster

Omega was bigger name in Japan than Styles whose gotten strong push on main roster.

Much much bigger name, better looking, better body than Owens was pre WWE and Owens was booked to beat Cena clean right off bat.

Not sure on what basis you think WWE would not have pushed Omega strong.

Missing out on Omega vs Lesnar, Rollins, Bryan, Styles, Reigns, Cena etc at Wrestlemania, Summerslam, Rumble, survivor series is a travesty. All wrestling fans should feel that way.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> That two last matches will be killers...





validreasoning said:


> No fan of Sasha since she moved to main roster but your example is very flawed.
> 
> Austin appeared in 3rd hour September 8th raw last year and it did 1.8 million viewers. Does that mean he isn't a star?
> 
> Brock, Angle, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Hogan, Vince, Jericho, rock and Austin all wrestled at Wrestlemania 19 which drew lowest ppv buys by quite a distance for a Wrestlemania between 98-2013..does that mean none of them are stars?
> 
> Banks has appeared in six different WWE broadcasts since last Friday week. Do people really go out of their way to watch every Banks appearance?


Superstar is someone like the Rock, Stone cold is a wrestling star.

You put the Rock in the third hour and i can assure you that it would do a way bigger ratings.


----------



## Prosper

validreasoning said:


> @prosperwithdeen
> 
> Omega was a bigger name pre WWE than Bryan, Punk, Rollins..and all got strong pushes on main roster
> 
> Omega was bigger name in Japan than Styles whose gotten strong push on main roster.
> 
> Much much bigger name, better looking, better body than Owens was pre WWE and Owens was booked to beat Cena clean right off bat.
> 
> Not sure on what basis you think WWE would not have pushed Omega strong.
> 
> Missing out on Omega vs Lesnar, Rollins, Bryan, Styles, Reigns, Cena etc at Wrestlemania, Summerslam, Rumble, survivor series is a travesty. All wrestling fans should feel that way.


It's definitely a travesty. That is a line up of matches that most fans have dreamed of. Yes Bryan, Owens, Rollins, Punk, Styles, Reigns, etc have all received massive pushes, but were they GOOD pushes for the majority of their times on top? No way. 20% was good and 80% was bad.That's what I mean when I say WWE would kill Omega. Because they will bring him in, give him a good program or two, then they will proceed to screw it up and screw up all of their good effort they put in beforehand. They would have made no effort to build him back up after a loss or a bad angle.

Owens - Yeah he beat Cena in the beginning, but then he went on to lose to Goldberg and be a jobber with Sami Zayn for years after. So what was the point? He is one of the most irrelevant guys int he company now.

Rollins - He was great in the Shield and when he was IC champion. Then he beat Lesnar. After that, they killed the guy dead by doing a cuck angle with Becky and feuding him with The Fiend. He still hasn't recovered. I will admit they are at least making an effort with the Messiah gimmick, but its not a good one.

Roman Reigns - He was the most hated guy in wrestling (and not in a good way) for 5 years straight despite his push. Everything backfired and Vince was too stubborn to see it.

Bryan - Had a great YES movement run prior to injury, then he makes his grand return to wrestling and it should have been a big deal, but WWE wasted the Miz feud, feuded with with Big Cass which was a terrible creative mistake, then killed his Planet's Champion gimmick for no reason. Bryan should be one of the hottest talents in the industry right now, instead they decide to destroy his star power completely, they make him cut his hair for a terrible Fiend feud, and they proceed to make him as generic as possible. Now he's doing nothing with Gulak.

CM Punk - Punk was booked very well for his whole run all the way up until he left, so I don't disagree here.

Samoa Joe - I forgot to mention him, this is also a dream match, but he was also wasted for his entire main roster run outside of his feud with Lesnar, which he should have won.

AJ Styles - I agree here too. He has also been booked strong, but they have made him look like a fool on multiple occasions. All of which he has recovered from though.


What I'm saying is that I don't trust WWE with Omega long term. He'll get a good introductory push like the aforementioned, then they'll bury him without any intention of building him back up. History shows as much for a lot more of the male talent that aren't listed here and is currently happening and HAS been happening with the women as well seeing as Bianca Belair and Ripley have both been buried. Bianca hasn't been on TV since they called her up to the main roster and at one point she was the hottest thing in the company.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's definitely a travesty. That is a line up of matches that most fans have dreamed of. Yes Bryan, Owens, Rollins, Punk, Styles, Reigns, etc have all received massive pushes, but were they GOOD pushes for the majority of their times on top? No way. 20% was good and 80% was bad.That's what I mean when I say WWE would kill Omega. Because they will bring him in, give him a good program or two, then they will proceed to screw it up and screw up all of their good effort they put in beforehand. They would have made no effort to build him back up after a loss or a bad angle.
> 
> Owens - Yeah he beat Cena in the beginning, but then he went on to lose to Goldberg and be a jobber with Sami Zayn for years after. So what was the point? He is one of the most irrelevant guys int he company now.
> 
> Rollins - He was great in the Shield and when he was IC champion. Then he beat Lesnar. After that, they killed the guy dead by doing a cuck angle with Becky and feuding him with The Fiend. He still hasn't recovered. I will admit they are at least making an effort with the Messiah gimmick, but its not a good one.
> 
> Roman Reigns - He was the most hated guy in wrestling (and not in a good way) for 5 years straight despite his push. Everything backfired and Vince was too stubborn to see it.
> 
> Bryan - Had a great YES movement run prior to injury, then he makes his grand return to wrestling and it should have been a big deal, but WWE wasted the Miz feud, feuded with with Big Cass which was a terrible creative mistake, then killed his Planet's Champion gimmick for no reason. Bryan should be one of the hottest talents in the industry right now, instead they decide to destroy his star power completely, they make him cut his hair for a terrible Fiend feud, and they proceed to make him as generic as possible. Now he's doing nothing with Gulak.
> 
> CM Punk - Punk was booked very well for his whole run all the way up until he left, so I don't disagree here.
> 
> Samoa Joe - I forgot to mention him, this is also a dream match, but he was also wasted for his entire main roster run outside of his feud with Lesnar, which he should have won.
> 
> AJ Styles - I agree here too. He has also been booked strong, but they have made him look like a fool on multiple occasions. All of which he has recovered from though.
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is that I don't trust WWE with Omega long term. He'll get a good introductory push like the aforementioned, then they'll bury him without any intention of building him back up. History shows as much for a lot more of the male talent that aren't listed here and is currently happening and HAS been happening with the women as well seeing as Bianca Belair and Ripley have both been buried. Bianca hasn't been on TV since they called her up to the main roster and at one point she was the hottest thing in the company.


Are you sure Cody rHHHodes and Jericho are going to make time on the show for Omega to ever have a run? Jon Moxley has been the champ for over 4 months, and he’s had jackshit to do storyline-wise the entire time. And this is a guy who makes his living with promos.

I understand not trusting Vince, but I see no reason to trust Khan and Cody at this point either.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Are you sure Cody rHHHodes and Jericho are going to make time on the show for Omega to ever have a run? Jon Moxley has been the champ for over 4 months, and he’s had jackshit to do storyline-wise the entire time. And this is a guy who makes his living with promos.
> 
> I understand not trusting Vince, but I see no reason to trust Khan and Cody at this point either.


Yeah, I can 100% guarantee you with absolute certainty that Omega will have a major run at the top of AEW. Multiple major runs actually. I can see Jericho taking a break after All Out honestly. Jon Moxley was just in a position where there weren't any heels to feud with except for Jericho who he won the title off of. But they were still in a place where they needed to strike when the iron was hot. They weren't gonna turn the Elite heel less than 8 months in especially considering the programs they were already in. MJF wasn't ready and in my opinion, still isn't ready, but I don't mind if they do the match now. For All Out, we either get MJF/Mox, Mox/Omega 2, or Mox/Hangman. Mox is and will be fine.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah, I can 100% guarantee you with absolute certainty that Omega will have a major run at the top of AEW. Multiple major runs actually. I can see Jericho taking a break after All Out honestly. Jon Moxley was just in a position where there weren't any heels to feud with except for Jericho who he won the title off of. But they were still in a place where they needed to strike when the iron was hot. They weren't gonna turn the Elite heel less than 8 months in especially considering the programs they were already in. MJF wasn't ready and in my opinion, still isn't ready, but I don't mind if they do the match now. For All Out, we either get MJF/Mox, Mox/Omega 2, or Mox/Hangman. Mox is and will be fine.


I don’t believe all out will be MJF Moxley. I think we are getting a Wardlow MJF feud. They can’t keep dragging that out.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t believe all out will be MJF Moxley. I think we are getting a Wardlow MJF feud. They can’t keep dragging that out.


Who do you think Moxley defends against?


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Who do you think Moxley defends against?


They give a lot of wins to Archer lately.

But I still think MJF will beat Mox at All Out and after the match Wardlow will turn on MJF.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I'm thowing this outthere, I'm betting that what killed them ratings-wise was again Best Friends


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> Who do you think Moxley defends against?


I thought Archer, but I wouldn’t be interested in it because we would then know Moxley is winning.

I literally have no idea, lol


----------



## rbl85

Wolf Mark said:


> I'm thowing this outthere, I'm betting that what killed them ratings-wise was again Best Friends


Nope


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> They give a lot of wins to Archer lately.
> 
> But I still think MJF will beat Mox at All Out and after the match Wardlow will turn on MJF.





optikk sucks said:


> I thought Archer, but I wouldn’t be interested in it because we would then know Moxley is winning.
> 
> I literally have no idea, lol


When looking at this image, I feel like they would have to give it to MJF. Cody will be defending the TNT Title. Once Cage loses, then Archer will be #4, right under MJF, so if they can find something significant for MJF to do that makes sense, then Archer could be the match. I would actually put Archer over in a swerve if Archer is the choice.


----------



## fabi1982

I find it funny that everyone two weeks ago said the main reason that OC/Jericho lost the main event rating was down to Hardy/one of the PNP guys lost all of the viewers and now it seems they just losz 40k and OC/Jericho lost 60k, if I‘m not mistaking...


----------



## Wolf Mark

rbl85 said:


> Nope


645 vs 900 That is a HUGE gap!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> When looking at this image, I feel like they would have to give it to MJF. Cody will be defending the TNT Title. Once Cage loses, then Archer will be #4, right under MJF, so if they can find something significant for MJF to do that makes sense, then Archer could be the match. I would actually put Archer over in a swerve if Archer is the choice.
> 
> View attachment 88417


Looking at this, I want Cage to take the TNT championship at All Out.

MJF does seem like the obvious choice, but I really want Wardlow to be wrestling at All Out. And they’ve teased it enough times now. Perhaps a fatal four way? Imagine Wardlow vs MJF vs Mox vs Archer. Keep all guys looking strong and allow them to delay an inevitable MJF vs Moxley match. And they don’t need to break up Wardlow and MJF for this. They can continue the tease up until All Out, where MJF screws Wardlow out of a pin for example. For the whole buildup MJF can brag about having his employee in the match.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> When looking at this image, I feel like they would have to give it to MJF. Cody will be defending the TNT Title. Once Cage loses, then Archer will be #4, right under MJF, so if they can find something significant for MJF to do that makes sense, then Archer could be the match. I would actually put Archer over in a swerve if Archer is the choice.
> 
> View attachment 88417


I definitely think:

Moxley vs. MJF
Cody vs. Cage

At All Out.


----------



## TD Stinger

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's definitely a travesty. That is a line up of matches that most fans have dreamed of. Yes Bryan, Owens, Rollins, Punk, Styles, Reigns, etc have all received massive pushes, but were they GOOD pushes for the majority of their times on top? No way. 20% was good and 80% was bad.That's what I mean when I say WWE would kill Omega. Because they will bring him in, give him a good program or two, then they will proceed to screw it up and screw up all of their good effort they put in beforehand. They would have made no effort to build him back up after a loss or a bad angle.
> 
> Owens - Yeah he beat Cena in the beginning, but then he went on to lose to Goldberg and be a jobber with Sami Zayn for years after. So what was the point? He is one of the most irrelevant guys int he company now.
> 
> Rollins - He was great in the Shield and when he was IC champion. Then he beat Lesnar. After that, they killed the guy dead by doing a cuck angle with Becky and feuding him with The Fiend. He still hasn't recovered. I will admit they are at least making an effort with the Messiah gimmick, but its not a good one.
> 
> Roman Reigns - He was the most hated guy in wrestling (and not in a good way) for 5 years straight despite his push. Everything backfired and Vince was too stubborn to see it.
> 
> Bryan - Had a great YES movement run prior to injury, then he makes his grand return to wrestling and it should have been a big deal, but WWE wasted the Miz feud, feuded with with Big Cass which was a terrible creative mistake, then killed his Planet's Champion gimmick for no reason. Bryan should be one of the hottest talents in the industry right now, instead they decide to destroy his star power completely, they make him cut his hair for a terrible Fiend feud, and they proceed to make him as generic as possible. Now he's doing nothing with Gulak.
> 
> CM Punk - Punk was booked very well for his whole run all the way up until he left, so I don't disagree here.
> 
> Samoa Joe - I forgot to mention him, this is also a dream match, but he was also wasted for his entire main roster run outside of his feud with Lesnar, which he should have won.
> 
> AJ Styles - I agree here too. He has also been booked strong, but they have made him look like a fool on multiple occasions. All of which he has recovered from though.
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is that I don't trust WWE with Omega long term. He'll get a good introductory push like the aforementioned, then they'll bury him without any intention of building him back up. History shows as much for a lot more of the male talent that aren't listed here and is currently happening and HAS been happening with the women as well seeing as Bianca Belair and Ripley have both been buried. Bianca hasn't been on TV since they called her up to the main roster and at one point she was the hottest thing in the company.


I mean, I could make a list about mile long about WWE making stars not feel as big as they should be, but at the same time AEW is guilty of this as well. Omega during his year plus time in AEW has either been a guy used to put other top guys over or as a guy in a tag team and the main story of the tag team revolves around his partner. Even Moxley, while his character is more serious, feels like a mid card world Champion right now. I could go on, but another day.

And despite complaints of booking (which again, I share some of), Omega vs. Roman, Omega vs. Brock, Omega vs. Omega vs. AJ, Omega vs. Seth, Omega vs. Bryan, etc. would all be bigger matches than Omega could have in AEW right now besides a rematch with Mox.



optikk sucks said:


> I thought Archer, but I wouldn’t be interested in it because we would then know Moxley is winning.
> 
> I literally have no idea, lol


Personally I'd rather Mox face someone who isn't another monster of the month.

If I had to take a guess at the All Out card in total:

*World Title - Mox vs. MJF
*Tag Titles - Omega/Hangman vs. Lucha Bros
*TNT - Cody vs. ???
*Womens - Shida vs. Nyla
*Bucks vs. FTR
*Britt vs. Swole
*Darby vs. Cage

Darby could come back to get Cage after Mox beats him and MJF could challenge Mox since he is the #1 ranked guy and the dissension between him and Wardlow could play a role in the match.



rbl85 said:


> They give a lot of wins to Archer lately.
> 
> But I still think MJF will beat Mox at All Out and after the match Wardlow will turn on MJF.


I'm assuming most of these wins have come on Dark because I don't remember seeing him in a match on Dynamite since losing to Cody.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I thought Archer, but I wouldn’t be interested in it because we would then know Moxley is winning.
> 
> I literally have no idea, lol


If Mox faces Archer he better lose (Mox I mean)

As soon as Archer goes for the belt they should put it on him


----------



## Wolf Mark

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's definitely a travesty. That is a line up of matches that most fans have dreamed of. Yes Bryan, Owens, Rollins, Punk, Styles, Reigns, etc have all received massive pushes, but were they GOOD pushes for the majority of their times on top? No way. 20% was good and 80% was bad.That's what I mean when I say WWE would kill Omega. Because they will bring him in, give him a good program or two, then they will proceed to screw it up and screw up all of their good effort they put in beforehand. They would have made no effort to build him back up after a loss or a bad angle.
> 
> Owens - Yeah he beat Cena in the beginning, but then he went on to lose to Goldberg and be a jobber with Sami Zayn for years after. So what was the point? He is one of the most irrelevant guys int he company now.
> 
> Rollins - He was great in the Shield and when he was IC champion. Then he beat Lesnar. After that, they killed the guy dead by doing a cuck angle with Becky and feuding him with The Fiend. He still hasn't recovered. I will admit they are at least making an effort with the Messiah gimmick, but its not a good one.
> 
> Roman Reigns - He was the most hated guy in wrestling (and not in a good way) for 5 years straight despite his push. Everything backfired and Vince was too stubborn to see it.
> 
> Bryan - Had a great YES movement run prior to injury, then he makes his grand return to wrestling and it should have been a big deal, but WWE wasted the Miz feud, feuded with with Big Cass which was a terrible creative mistake, then killed his Planet's Champion gimmick for no reason. Bryan should be one of the hottest talents in the industry right now, instead they decide to destroy his star power completely, they make him cut his hair for a terrible Fiend feud, and they proceed to make him as generic as possible. Now he's doing nothing with Gulak.
> 
> CM Punk - Punk was booked very well for his whole run all the way up until he left, so I don't disagree here.
> 
> Samoa Joe - I forgot to mention him, this is also a dream match, but he was also wasted for his entire main roster run outside of his feud with Lesnar, which he should have won.
> 
> AJ Styles - I agree here too. He has also been booked strong, but they have made him look like a fool on multiple occasions. All of which he has recovered from though.
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is that I don't trust WWE with Omega long term. He'll get a good introductory push like the aforementioned, then they'll bury him without any intention of building him back up. History shows as much for a lot more of the male talent that aren't listed here and is currently happening and HAS been happening with the women as well seeing as Bianca Belair and Ripley have both been buried. Bianca hasn't been on TV since they called her up to the main roster and at one point she was the hottest thing in the company.


I don't buy the narrative that AJ has been booked great by the WWE. To me his runs have been the equivalent of Chris Benoit's "push". They recognize these guys are great workers and they will give them title runs but the WWE is not a workrate company. They'll never give AJ the ball and say "he's the guy" and push the whole company around him. They gave him lenghty title runs to essentially shut him and his fans up cause they know AJ is a mark and his fans are workrate fans so they'll be satisfied. But I cannot remember him having had memorable feuds that we'll remember for ages. His thing with James Ellsworth, maybe? They go "oh he was much better pushed in the WWE than he was in TNA". WTF, don't you guys realise that you got conned? That that is what WWE when you to think? The WWE like to do this with guys that have been perceived to have been unfairly underpushed by companies and they do things to make people think that "look we'll book them better, cause people realise their dreams in the WWE and the other guys were jerks" but they don't really do that. Even freaking Jericho. They had him beat Austin and the Rock but never intended on making him the guy. NEVER. So basically WCW was right. If WCW had stayed alive and Jericho had stayed her, he would have been in the same position that he was put in the WWE, a B main eventer.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> The NBA being back is going to be hell for both shows. I don't even know if it's really worth going all out as I don't think that'll really save them from losing fans honestly. I can't think of a single realistic match either show could do that I'd miss the NBA and NBA playoffs for


They were doing well before pandemic vs NBA. With AEW often doing similar numbers to NBA on ESPN some weeks. Playoffs will be different story and will hurt them some weeks.


But if Dynamite down 100-200 viewers and .7 or so in 18-49 demo from them. With no sports competition going on. Well they need to better to at least keep these numbers. I'm not saying do a Dynamite where it's Moxley vs Cody, Jericho vs Omega, MJF vs Page, FTR vs Lucha Bros on one Dynamite.


But they can do a lot better then they are and stop with such conservative booking. With so many Tag Team matches and either squash or preditcable outcome singles matches. 


AEW needs to plan out next 3 ppv big top 3 match ups. If they aren't using that match up over the next year on ppv. Well then can use some of those matches on free tv and spread them out. And if they are scared for some guys to take pin.


Well then throw in midcard guys with good records to take the pin. For example let's say for Fight for Fallen. People wanted to see Cody vs MJF for title. But you don't want MJF to take the pin. Well how about you throw Shawn Spears who has good record and history with Cody in the match to make it a 3 way. With Spears/MJF joining together at first. Of course until it's time to pin Cody and then they start fighting. With Spears taking the pin at the end. That will give you big match up and not hurt Cody or MJF.

We seen increase in NXT ratings the last three weeks. Because they had main events of Gargano vs Lee vs Balor, Sasha/Bayley defending tag titles vs top NXT women. Then this past week Sasha vs NXT champ. While Cole vs Lee is gonna do a big number for them too. Those are interesting match ups that people will tune in for. 


While Dynamite has had Best Friends in two of last three weeks of main events. Or brawl between Jericho and Orange Cassidy. While IMO Jericho/Cassidy is going to get destroyed vs Cole/Lee next week. I think Mox/Cage would have had a chance to beat Lee/Cole or do similar numbers. When you consider Cage size and way they built him up. Alot of people will think it's possible that Cage could win or wanna see how Mox going to pull it off. But Jericho/Cassidy is midcard feud and match being used in main event and numbers show that. That said next week isn't there fault that Mox is out.


But my point is they need to give bigger match ups or create some hotter segments. Look at the shows in January and February. You had Mox/Guevara, Mox/Pac, Mox/Cobb, Mox joining Inner Circle tease. You had Cody lashings, Cody/Darby rematch from thr draw, Cody vs Wardlow steel cage, Omega/Pac Iron Man match. In most shows they had hot segments or interesting match ups just about every show. 


So even though the match quality might still be good on a lot of these shows. They are clearly lacking stuff that will keep people watching the show or gain viewers through out the show. So like I said above you don't have to blow through all the top match ups. They only do 4 ppvs per year they can give away more on free tv and save stuff for ppvs. Or they can toss out multi-man match here and there if they wanna save the one on one match up. But they can't keep putting on these AEW Dark level match ups. They should need a ppv spread out over two weeks to get 2 or 3 competitive matches with AEW Dark level mixed in for the other 8 or 9.


----------



## taker1986

Replacing their world title match with Omega/Page v PP is pretty poor imo, especially when it's going up against a unification title match on NXT which is basically an NXT equivalent of Mox v Cody in a unification match. It kinda feels like NXT is putting their put down in 5th gear while AEW are just coasting and not putting on enough of their big name matches.

What I would've done is replace Mox/Cage with either Cody v surprise or Omega/Page v Bucks in a revolution rematch. Their first match was rated as the best tag team match on year's so a rematch would've drawn interest, and I'd have FTR v Lucha bros. Instead we have an 8 man tag which won't be as intersting and a predictable tag team title match.


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t believe all out will be MJF Moxley. I think we are getting a Wardlow MJF feud. They can’t keep dragging that out.


MJF is still ranked number 1. Unless he loses its pretty much a given it's gonna be him vs Mox. I think they are teasing MJF/Wardlow break up now. But won't actually happen until at All Out. Moxley will retain when MJF tries to cheat with the ring. Wardlow will do something wrong it cost MJF the match and his undefeated streak. Then post match MJF will slap Wardow and he will attack MJF. That's what I see happening.


----------



## Wolf Mark

taker1986 said:


> Replacing their world title match with Omega/Page v PP is pretty poor imo, especially when it's going up against a unification title match on NXT which is basically an NXT equivalent of Mox v Cody in a unification match. It kinda feels like NXT is putting their put down in 5th gear while AEW are just coasting and not putting on enough of their big name matches.
> 
> What I would've done is replace Mox/Cage with either Cody v surprise or Omega/Page v Bucks in a revolution rematch. Their first match was rated as the best tag team match on year's so a rematch would've drawn interest, and I'd have FTR v Lucha bros. Instead we have an 8 man tag which won't be as intersting and a predictable tag team title match.


They literally have no idea what to do to compete. How about just do Omega vs Cage and have Cage go over clean. It prepares the table well for Cage going after Mox.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> They give a lot of wins to Archer lately.
> 
> But I still think MJF will beat Mox at All Out and after the match Wardlow will turn on MJF.


I think Archer and Cody feud is gonna restart for rematch after Fyter Fest. I think they kept them apart for a few weeks. With Archer destroying guys on Dark and Janela at Fyter Fest. So Cody could have his glory with title and rebuild Archer from the loss. But I full expect Jake to say he's not finish with Cody yet. My guess for All Out is...


1.Mox vs MJF
2.Jericho vs Tyson (boxing match or street fight)
3.Cody vs Archer
4.FTR vs Young Bucks
5.Omega/Page vs Dark Order(Brodie Lee&Colt Cabana)
6.Brian Cage vs Darby Allin
7.Shida vs Nyla Rose
8.Matt Hardy&Private Party vs SCU vs Hager or Sammy&Santana/Ortiz vs Pac (if back)&Lucha Bros or Jurassisc Express vs Orange Cassidy&Best Friend for Trios Trophy

*if Pac not back Dark Order and Pres10 Vance can replace them.

Preshow
9.Britt Baker vs Big Swole


----------



## taker1986

Wolf Mark said:


> They literally have no idea what to do to compete. How about just do Omega vs Cage and have Cage go over clean. It prepares the table well for Cage going after Mox.


Yeah, not only does that build Cage up as a credible threat to Mox it can also plant more seeds for an Omega heel turn. 

Other matches they could've done off the top of my head. 

Omega/Page v Bucks 
Cody v Archer (just have Archer challenge Cody straight after squashing Janela) 
Cody/MJF 2
Cody v Omega 
Cody v Page 
Omega v Archer 
Omega/Page v FTR
MJF v Page v Omega - winner is next in line for title shot after Cage 

Honestly I can probably think of 50 better options than what we got, nobody thinks PP are going to win the titles just like nobody thought Dustin/QT or Havok/Sabian were going to win.


----------



## Erik.

taker1986 said:


> Yeah, not only does that build Cage up as a credible threat to Mox it can also plant more seeds for an Omega heel turn.
> 
> Other matches they could've done off the top of my head.
> 
> Omega/Page v Bucks
> Cody v Archer (just have Archer challenge Cody straight after squashing Janela)
> Cody/MJF 2
> Cody v Omega
> Cody v Page
> Omega v Archer
> Omega/Page v FTR
> MJF v Page v Omega - winner is next in line for title shot after Cage
> 
> Honestly I can probably think of 50 better options than what we got, nobody thinks PP are going to win the titles just like nobody thought Dustin/QT or Havok/Sabian were going to win.


What if Private Party do win?


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> What if Private Party do win?


Sadly the results of night 2 were leaked


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> What if Private Party do win?


Then it would further prove these motherfuckers have no clue how to book properly.


----------



## taker1986

Erik. said:


> What if Private Party do win?


PP are nowhere near ready to win the titles, plus the match was never in the original plan so they won't win because they'll likely have a long term plan for what's happening in the next few months. Personally I hope the Lucha Bros are the ones to win them off Omega and Page.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Your reasons are fair, which I didn’t even know you were a WWE fan to be honest.
> 
> I am speaking specifically about those that are wayyyyyy too in their feelings about Kenny Omega. Jilted lover syndrome, but as many superstars as WWE has, surely I wouldn’t imagine him choosing to not go there isn’t the sole reason, right?
> 
> You see it on Twitter, in here with a select few, etc. They have no reason to bother with him. He shouldn’t be on their radar, yet he lives in their head RENT fucking FREE.
> 
> Now I’ll be the first to say Cody is a piece of shit, and I absolutely feel some type of way about him and his BS booking, specifically due to hating his HHH shit when I don’t...fucking...want...to watch...WWE...bullshit!
> 
> But for whatever reason, certain fans are really, really bothered by Omega’s mere existence.


I think you're seeing this more with Killer Kross and AEW fans to be honest. Shit, people are even saying Tessa isn't very good in the "AEW not Interested in Tessa Blanchard" thread which is a joke. It's just how people try to justify missing out on talented athletes. Happens in every sport. 

I think hindsight would prove that Kenny would have been better off at this point going to WWE because he's an absolute joke in AEW. He needs someone to tell him when something isn't a good idea because he seems to have this over inflated self worth that makes him think he's a genius when he's just a curly headed dork who doesn't take the business very seriously. It pisses me off that he's pissing his career away when he could be a massive star if he just listened to the right people. Matt Jackson could be the same if he went to the gym and took this shit seriously. Trent as well. Santana! Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> I think you're seeing this more with Killer Kross and AEW fans to be honest. Shit, people are even saying Tessa isn't very good in the "AEW not Interested in Tessa Blanchard" thread which is a joke. It's just how people try to justify missing out on talented athletes. Happens in every sport.
> 
> I think hindsight would prove that Kenny would have been better off at this point going to WWE because he's an absolute joke in AEW. He needs someone to tell him when something isn't a good idea because he seems to have this over inflated self worth that makes him think he's a genius when he's just a curly headed dork who doesn't take the business very seriously. It pisses me off that he's pissing his career away when he could be a massive star if he just listened to the right people. Matt Jackson could be the same if he went to the gym and took this shit seriously. Trent as well. Santana! Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.


I suppose it is similar, but it just seems weird that WWE fans would worry about missing on ONE guy. Of course AEW fans try to justify missing on Kross and Tessa.

Just shocking to see WWE fans sweat one guy.


----------



## ProjectGargano

I didn't Saw the spoilers anywhere, but who leaked the results should be banned from AEW shows in the future. What a shame, that can cost them many views.


----------



## Erik.

taker1986 said:


> PP are nowhere near ready to win the titles, plus the match was never in the original plan so they won't win because they'll likely have a long term plan for what's happening in the next few months. Personally I hope the Lucha Bros are the ones to win them off Omega and Page.


They're not - you're right but it's easily something they could do to show that anything can happen. An unscheduled match that leads to a win for the underdog tag team to lead to more disagreements between Omega and Page not working together or as a team that cost them etc.

I think Lucha Bros will be the ones to do it too, by the way.



bdon said:


> Then it would further prove these motherfuckers have no clue how to book properly.


In all honesty, I wouldn't have minded Private Party taking the titles if they ended up getting a shot and getting a true fluke win after some further dissension between Omega and Page - but yeah, next week would just be random and shock factor for the sake of it. 



rbl85 said:


> Sadly the results of night 2 were leaked


Really? 

How annoying!


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> They're not - you're right but it's easily something they could do to show that anything can happen. An unscheduled match that leads to a win for the underdog tag team to lead to more disagreements between Omega and Page not working together or as a team that cost them etc.
> 
> I think Lucha Bros will be the ones to do it too, by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I wouldn't have minded Private Party taking the titles if they ended up getting a shot and getting a true fluke win after some further dissension between Omega and Page - but yeah, next week would just be random and shock factor for the sake of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> How annoying!


It would be such a wasted title change. Things need to be meaningful. Kenny and Page beating everyone until FINALLY running into Lucha Bros, FTR, or Bucks in a rematch is so much more meaningful a win as it propels the tag team division forward and supplants that team as “the team to beat”.

Fluke wins don’t matter, because everyone knows the title will find its way to the rightful owner soon enough.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I suppose it is similar, but it just seems weird that WWE fans would worry about missing on ONE guy. Of course AEW fans try to justify missing on Kross and Tessa.
> 
> Just shocking to see WWE fans sweat one guy.


There are a lot of possible reasons behind it. It might just be because he's outspoken about how WWE treated him when at the time he was just some dork in green underwear with very little experience under his belt. He's now very experienced but not taking advantage of the hype he had and I think it can be funny for some people to watch him knowing he could have been better if he put his ego aside, spent a month at NXT developing his game and debuted on the main roster with story lines that don't suck. He's wasting his potential more than most people in the business ever have at the moment and it sucks because he could be great. His fans enable the bullshit too. He has an echo chamber on Twitter that tells him how great his spirit fingers and polo shirts are and flips out whenever someone criticizes him.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> There are a lot of possible reasons behind it. It might just be because he's outspoken about how WWE treated him when at the time he was just some dork in green underwear with very little experience under his belt. He's now very experienced but not taking advantage of the hype he had and I think it can be funny for some people to watch him knowing he could have been better if he put his ego aside, spent a month at NXT developing his game and debuted on the main roster with story lines that don't suck. He's wasting his potential more than most people in the business ever have at the moment and it sucks because he could be great. His fans enable the bullshit too. He has an echo chamber on Twitter that tells him how great his spirit fingers and polo shirts are and flips out whenever someone criticizes him.


Agree with pretty much everything.


----------



## The Wood

Omega would have been hum-dum in WWE. Why do people want to see him there. If The Bucks went too, they would be out-staged in a comedy feud with The New Day and Omega would get a courtesy Shinsuke Nakamura spot against AJ for a brief minute. Then he would be in exactly the same spot he is in AEW. And good riddance.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah, I can 100% guarantee you with absolute certainty that Omega will have a major run at the top of AEW. Multiple major runs actually. I can see Jericho taking a break after All Out honestly. Jon Moxley was just in a position where there weren't any heels to feud with except for Jericho who he won the title off of. But they were still in a place where they needed to strike when the iron was hot. They weren't gonna turn the Elite heel less than 8 months in especially considering the programs they were already in. MJF wasn't ready and in my opinion, still isn't ready, but I don't mind if they do the match now. For All Out, we either get MJF/Mox, Mox/Omega 2, or Mox/Hangman. Mox is and will be fine.


Omega is like 37 years old. I don’t know if he’s got that much left in him. He’ll do his angle with Page and they’ll either face each other at All Out or do a Three-Way with Moxley for the belt. MJF is their emerging star, but it seems like they have no interest in pushing him to the main event. He’ll probably face Wardlow at All Out. Jericho and Cody for the TNT Title seems fair, but I could also see him putting over a Scorpio Sky or something, so they can do the illusion of creating a new star. That leaves Cody to finally put over Darby Allin for the TNT Title. FTR and Young Bucks will finally get to their title match. With Scorpio Sky getting a big push, that probably leaves Daniels & Kazarian to put over Private Party, who they seem to think are a thing. Or put Lucas Bros against them and have SCU against Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus. 


Jon Moxley vs. Kenny Omega vs. Adam Page for the AEW Title
FTR vs. The Young Bucks for the Tag Titles
Chris Jericho vs. Scorpio Sky
Women’s Title match
Cody vs. Darby Allin for the TNT Title
MJF vs. Wardlow
Lucas Bros vs. Private Party
SCU vs. Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus
Some sort of Battle Royal/Ladder Match to get Lee, Archer and Cage on the card

Would not surprise me at all if that’s the All Out card.


----------



## Wolf Mark

taker1986 said:


> Yeah, not only does that build Cage up as a credible threat to Mox it can also plant more seeds for an Omega heel turn.
> 
> Other matches they could've done off the top of my head.
> 
> Omega/Page v Bucks
> Cody v Archer (just have Archer challenge Cody straight after squashing Janela)
> Cody/MJF 2
> Cody v Omega
> Cody v Page
> Omega v Archer
> Omega/Page v FTR
> MJF v Page v Omega - winner is next in line for title shot after Cage
> 
> Honestly I can probably think of 50 better options than what we got, nobody thinks PP are going to win the titles just like nobody thought Dustin/QT or Havok/Sabian were going to win.


Also I think if Santana and Ortiz had won their match, them going after Omega and Page would have been way more suspenseful the Elite vs the IC. You could have Jericho help his guys win the title. Then Omega and Page would be pissed that their friends did not help them.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Then it would further prove these motherfuckers have no clue how to book properly.


My guess is FTR beat Omega/Page between All Out and Full Gear or at Full Gear. Besides FTR and Bucks all the other tag teams feel like midcard teams right now. They can always build up Lucha Bros again with a few big wins(Omega/Page also already beat them tho). But I can't see Dark Order(Evil Uno or Stu Grayson) or SCU or Santana&Ortiz or others winning titles right now.


While they will wanna do FTR vs Young Bucks first without titles at All Out. So there's no doubt they will want Page/Omega in big tag title match on the ppv. If you look at storylines they are having Brodie Lee and Colt Cabana team for a reason. With Dark Order now the number 1 ranked team with Best Friends losing. So all signs point to Brodie Lee wanting tag title shot for him and Colt Cabana. With AEW probably thinking they have big enough names to team against Omega/Page on a ppv. Ranking system kinda gives hint on where things are going.


----------



## imthegame19

Wolf Mark said:


> Also I think if Santana and Ortiz had won their match, them going after Omega and Page would have been way more suspenseful the Elite vs the IC. You could have Jericho help his guys win the title. Then Omega and Page would be pissed that their friends did not help them.


Yeah I thought Omega/Page vs Santana&Ortiz is much better match up and people could think Santana/Ortiz might win. I don't think they planned for Omega/Page to lose the titles anytime soon tho. So maybe saving Omega/Page vs Santana/Ortiz to after All Out.


----------



## Wolf Mark

imthegame19 said:


> My guess is FTR beat Omega/Page between All Out and Full Gear or at Full Gear. Besides FTR and Bucks all the other tag teams feel like midcard teams right now. They can always build up Lucha Bros again with a few big wins(Omega/Page also already beat them tho). But I can't see Dark Order(Evil Uno or Stu Grayson) or SCU or Santana&Ortiz or others winning titles right now.
> 
> 
> While they will wanna do FTR vs Young Bucks first without titles at All Out. So there's no doubt they will want Page/Omega in big tag title match on the ppv. If you look at storylines they are having Brodie Lee and Colt Cabana team for a reason. With Dark Order now the number 1 ranked team with Best Friends losing. So all signs point to Brodie Lee wanting tag title shot for him and Colt Cabana. With AEW probably thinking they have big enough names to team against Omega/Page on a ppv.
> 
> 
> Then once you give FTR the belts they can feud with Lucha Bros and Santana/Ortiz. Before I'm sure the Bucks beat them for titles in a rematch down the road.


I'm thinking the FTR-Young Bucks thing and throwing Omega and Page in there will lead to a Four Horsemen-type group forming when Cody comes down the ramp and his friends thinks he'll side with them and he'll choose FTR. 

I think Brodie Lee won't be with Cabana much longer, SCU will go dark and join the Dark Order and Cabana will get beat up.


----------



## Wolf Mark

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I thought Omega/Page vs Santana&Ortiz is much better match up and people could think Santana/Ortiz might win. I don't think they planned for Omega/Page to lose the titles anytime soon tho. So maybe saving Omega/Page vs Santana/Ortiz to after All Out.


They could have maybe Omega/Page retain against Lax but after the match, they get beat up by the Inner Circle but none of their friends are there to help. You could have a rematch where Ortiz and Santana win and Hager beats Cody for the TNT title in a Inner Circle domination. It's in defeat that tempers flare. 

Then in another re-match Cody regains the TNT title with the help of FTR. And the Bucks are pissed, etc...


----------



## thorn123

reasonable rating news ... sometimes I feel people expect too much ... (I grew up watching wrestling during the birth of hulkamania with my dad ... he has not watched wrestling since about 1990 ... I watched Fyter Fest with him ... he was in raptures... laughing, ooing, aweing ... he was like a kid in a candy store - Jericho, JR, Lucha and Page are his faves)


----------



## imthegame19

Wolf Mark said:


> I'm thinking the FTR-Young Bucks thing and throwing Omega and Page in there will lead to a Four Horsemen-type group forming when Cody comes down the ramp and his friends thinks he'll side with them and he'll choose FTR.
> 
> I think Brodie Lee won't be with Cabana much longer, SCU will go dark and join the Dark Order and Cabana will get beat up.


Bucks vs FTR one on one is big money talk about match. They gotta do that at All Out first. Then can so 3 way with Omega/Page or do FTR vs Omega/Page.


After this week theirs 8 Dynamites to All Out and 7 after Fight for Fallen. With Best Friends losing Dark Order is number one ranked team. I don't see how SCU joining does anything for them or Dark Order. Since they already have midcard tag team in the group.


From looking at the spoilers it seems like Colt Cabana enjoying success with Dark Order. Even though he doesn't want really want to join. So Mr. Brodie will throw more temptation at him. Getting tag title shot at All Out. Which will lead to Dark Order beat down on Omega/Page with Cabana conflicted on what to do. With every one asking him what's wrong with him and why he he's with them.


Of course All Out will be end of Brodie/Cabana teaming and he will probably feud between the two. But storytelling wise it seems like direction they are going in. Especially since you know the company high on Brodie Lee. So hes gonna big match with top guys. So if he not in this then other options are Cody or Matt Hardy. But it doesn't really make sense to be doing this Colt Cabana story and teaming together. If it's going to lead to Brodie Lee going on totally different story the final 7 or 8 weeks going into the ppv.


----------



## Wolf Mark

imthegame19 said:


> Bucks vs FTR one on one is big money talk about match. They gotta do that at All Out first. Then can so 3 way with Omega/Page or do FTR vs Omega/Page.


Whatever happens it's gonna lead to the long-time coming Elite split. It's so obvious. They keep getting involved in their stuff. lol 




> After this week theirs 8 Dynamites to All Out and 7 after Fight for Fallen. With Best Friends losing Dark Order is number one ranked team. I don't see how SCU joining does anything for them or Dark Order. Since they already have midcard tag team in the group.
> 
> 
> From looking at the spoilers it seems like Colt Cabana enjoying success with Dark Order. Even though he doesn't want really want to join. So Mr. Brodie will throw more temptation at him. Getting tag title shot at All Out. Which will lead to Dark Order beat down on Omega/Page with Cabana conflicted on what to do. With every one asking him what's wrong with him and why he he's with them.
> 
> 
> Of course All Out will be end of Brodie/Cabana teaming and he will probably feud between the two. But storytelling wise it seems like direction they are going in. Especially since you know the company high on Brodie Lee. So hes gonna big match even if it's just tag match on this show.


I had been discussing this in another thread about Lee and Cabana and that perhaps Lee chose to fight SCU cause Lee had a past with SCU and they would finally joim him(esp. Daniels) and maybe them beating up Cabana. I'm disappointed that it did not happen. Daniels esp. need a change and he would shine in a cult. But in a way yea it would be weird to just drop the DO-Colt stuff right away.


----------



## imthegame19

Wolf Mark said:


> Whatever happens it's gonna lead to the long-time coming Elite split. It's so obvious. They keep getting involved in their stuff. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had been discussing this in another thread about Lee and Cabana and that perhaps Lee chose to fight SCU cause Lee had a past with SCU and they would finally joim him(esp. Daniels) and maybe them beating up Cabana. I'm disappointed that it did not happen. Daniels esp. need a change and he would shine in a cult. But in a way yea it would be weird to just drop the DO-Colt stuff right away.


I do think SCU need heel turn. Right now they come off pretty boring. They are very good workers so you can do more with them. But need heel turn to give them a edge. At Daniels age I'm not sure they will do much with him. He's pretty much backstage guy and enhancement talent now. Unless Scorpio Sky breaks away from them and does singles run. It's hard to see Daniels role changing a lot.


I agree that Page/Omega will get involved with Bucks and FTR in the future. Right now the money match people wanna see is Young Bucks vs FTR. So that seems all but set at All Out. 

Then that leaves Omega/Page needing competition and no other team is at their level for big ppv like All Out. That's why I'll be surprised if Brodie Lee/Cabana team doesn't lead to facing Omega/Page at ppv. Since Brodie is someone they see as main event level guy and Cabana popular mid card guy. So build up wise it feels like it could be worthy of ppv. 


Usually with AEW about 7 or 8 weeks out you can look at the rankings and get idea on what direction they are going for title matches. MJF seems certain to be facing Moxley considering how they've protected him from taking pin. While Nyla Rose seems to be getting rematch with Shida. While as I mentioned Dark Order vs Omega/Page. But I can't see them doing Evil Uno&Stu Grayson. So with Brodie/Cabana story that makes ton of sense.

While we know Darby not really hurt with all the stunts he's doing on skateboard. So that tells me they kept him off tv to keep him away from Brian Cage while Moxley feud is going. I expect him to return at Fight for Fallen to distract and cost Cage the match Mox. TNT title little harder to predict given open challenge. Personally I hope do Archer/Cody rematch with Archer winning.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> They were doing well before pandemic vs NBA. With AEW often doing similar numbers to NBA on ESPN some weeks. Playoffs will be different story and will hurt them some weeks.
> 
> 
> But if Dynamite down 100-200 viewers and .7 or so in 18-49 demo from them. With no sports competition going on. Well they need to better to at least keep these numbers. I'm not saying do a Dynamite where it's Moxley vs Cody, Jericho vs Omega, MJF vs Page, FTR vs Lucha Bros on one Dynamite.
> 
> 
> But they can do a lot better then they are and stop with such conservative booking. With so many Tag Team matches and either squash or preditcable outcome singles matches.
> 
> 
> AEW needs to plan out next 3 ppv big top 3 match ups. If they aren't using that match up over the next year on ppv. Well then can use some of those matches on free tv and spread them out. And if they are scared for some guys to take pin.
> 
> 
> Well then throw in midcard guys with good records to take the pin. For example let's say for Fight for Fallen. People wanted to see Cody vs MJF for title. But you don't want MJF to take the pin. Well how about you throw Shawn Spears who has good record and history with Cody in the match to make it a 3 way. With Spears/MJF joining together at first. Of course until it's time to pin Cody and then they start fighting. With Spears taking the pin at the end. That will give you big match up and not hurt Cody or MJF.
> 
> We seen increase in NXT ratings the last three weeks. Because they had main events of Gargano vs Lee vs Balor, Sasha/Bayley defending tag titles vs top NXT women. Then this past week Sasha vs NXT champ. While Cole vs Lee is gonna do a big number for them too. Those are interesting match ups that people will tune in for.
> 
> 
> While Dynamite has had Best Friends in two of last three weeks of main events. Or brawl between Jericho and Orange Cassidy. While IMO Jericho/Cassidy is going to get destroyed vs Cole/Lee next week. I think Mox/Cage would have had a chance to beat Lee/Cole or do similar numbers. When you consider Cage size and way they built him up. Alot of people will think it's possible that Cage could win or wanna see how Mox going to pull it off. But Jericho/Cassidy is midcard feud and match being used in main event and numbers show that. That said next week isn't there fault that Mox is out.
> 
> 
> But my point is they need to give bigger match ups or create some hotter segments. Look at the shows in January and February. You had Mox/Guevara, Mox/Pac, Mox/Cobb, Mox joining Inner Circle tease. You had Cody lashings, Cody/Darby rematch from thr draw, Cody vs Wardlow steel cage, Omega/Pac Iron Man match. In most shows they had hot segments or interesting match ups just about every show.
> 
> 
> So even though the match quality might still be good on a lot of these shows. They are clearly lacking stuff that will keep people watching the show or gain viewers through out the show. So like I said above you don't have to blow through all the top match ups. They only do 4 ppvs per year they can give away more on free tv and save stuff for ppvs. Or they can toss out multi-man match here and there if they wanna save the one on one match up. But they can't keep putting on these AEW Dark level match ups. They should need a ppv spread out over two weeks to get 2 or 3 competitive matches with AEW Dark level mixed in for the other 8 or 9.


Nah I get what you're saying. It's just one of those things where while in general they should've been and will need to go hard. I think they got to play it smart because they don't want to give up a match like say Omega and Hangman on TV right when the NBA is coming back.

But your plan definitely makes sense. Figure out your biggest matches, then everything is free game to build must see TV


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hey guys, not trying to be bossy just more making a request but can we spoiler tag any spoilers? I don't want to read the spoilers but a match result (Luckily a super predictable one) was revealed a page or two back. If I somehow see all the spoilers before the show goes to air I will lose interest in it and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Nah I get what you're saying. It's just one of those things where while in general they should've been and will need to go hard. I think they got to play it smart because they don't want to give up a match like say Omega and Hangman on TV right when the NBA is coming back.
> 
> But your plan definitely makes sense. Figure out your biggest matches, then everything is free game to build must see TV


Yeah I really don't get this conservative approach especially after all the new talent they added.


I know it's a work rate type show but you need to have more interesting match ups that involves that. When you consider that since Double or Nothing the most interesting singles matches on Dynamite prior to Fyter Fest. Were Wardlow vs Luchasarus, Colt Cabana vs Sammy Guevara, Cody vs Jungle Boy and Colt Cabana vs Chris Jericho. Well that is a flat out bad approach.


They got veterans in Dustin Rhodes and Matt Hardy who have name value. Now you can't bury them and gotta give them wins vs mid card guys to them worth something. But you can have interesting tv matches vs top heels. Heck I would use Hager in that role vs top baby faces. Since he's clearly behind Cage, Archer and Brodie. So he doesn't need to be protected as much. Especially if they end up adding someone like Rusev.


There's also nothing wrong with doing rematches from previous ppvs. Only rematches we really got have been Cody/Darby, Cody/Spears Mox/Janela, Jungle Boy/MJF, Darby/Sammy and Pac/Mox, Pac/Page, Pac/Omega. If you take Pac out of that well then that's really weak. Again don't need to get people sick of seeing two guys. But you can do more then they are.


You can also make title matches more interesting doing 3 ways or even set up 3 guys feuding with each other which they haven't done since Janela/Havoc/Darby last year. To set up bigger match ups and protect stars from taking the pin. Another thing they should be doing is play up Mox/Cody element more.


They are the shows top two baby faces and champions. Having them team together vs heels every few months could create more interest. Especially if they always don't get along and play that up for a while etc. Either way it's clear they can do more then AEW Dark line ups most weeks. Ok end of my rant lol.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> What would you do to target casuals while not alienating your hardcore fan base?


Pro-wrestling. 

Cut talent that don't look like they belong, and don't have any special talents to make up for those deficits: Have guys cut promos on each other, then fight in matches with psychology. Put your foot down as a booker as to who can do dives and when. There needs to be some measure of control so shows can actually build, and the important things can be emphasised and you can actually get some people with talent properly over. Raid MLW, ROH, the NWA and overseas for talent that have star potential and/or the credibility to anchor your program in some sort of realism. 

And honestly, fuck the hardcores. Most of them don't have a fucking clue, and they're going to stick with what you do anyway. What other options do they have? If they got upset because Orange Cassidy or Joey Janela wasn't around anymore (life would go on, trust me), are they going to boycott this wrestling they love _oh so much_? No. And I'd rather take the casuals and people who can actually make me money than appealing to a niche gatekeeping audience that keeps you locked away. If I were running a business, I'd want to make money. 

It's not as complicated as people think. No one has tried doing honest-to-god pro-wrestling on a basic cable level for so fucking long.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

That's assuming the hardcore fans will stick around once you start catering to the casuals. That's not always proven to be the case. Also I believe you cater your product to the fans of your product, the people who are going to watch and buy tickets. Why would you cater to people who don't watch if they aren't going to watch? That's kinda what happened to The Last of Us Part 2. They insulted the fans of the actual first game and they tried to appeal to other people. That's not good business but I'm not a business expert or anything.


----------



## The Wood

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> That's assuming the hardcore fans will stick around once you start catering to the casuals. That's not always proven to be the case. Also I believe you cater your product to the fans of your product, the people who are going to watch and buy tickets. Why would you cater to people who don't watch if they aren't going to watch? That's kinda what happened to The Last of Us Part 2. They insulted the fans of the actual first game and they tried to appeal to other people. That's not good business but I'm not a business expert or anything.


That's what hardcore fan means. They stick around through anything. That's why they still follow wrestling even after it's gone to total shit. You don't have enough people watching nor enough people buying tickets because you've catered to their worst instincts. When you put on good wrestling, they still like it, they just relish the bad shit that scares other people away. You can have your cake and eat it too in this case. The people who like Orange Cassidy vs. Chris Jericho are not going to run away from Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart. But the people who like Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart may not necessarily like Orange Cassidy vs. Chris Jericho. 

When has it ever been proven that the hardcore wrestling fan has not stuck with a product when they appeal to casuals? Rock 'n' Wrestling? They were there. Attitude era? They were there again.


----------



## the_flock

He's not wrong. That and the product is the pits.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> That's assuming the hardcore fans will stick around once you start catering to the casuals. That's not always proven to be the case. Also I believe you cater your product to the fans of your product, the people who are going to watch and buy tickets. Why would you cater to people who don't watch if they aren't going to watch? That's kinda what happened to The Last of Us Part 2. They insulted the fans of the actual first game and they tried to appeal to other people. That's not good business but I'm not a business expert or anything.


As The Wood said the hardcore fans always stick around.


----------



## taker1986

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I really don't get this conservative approach especially after all the new talent they added.
> 
> 
> I know it's a work rate type show but you need to have more interesting match ups that involves that. When you consider that since Double or Nothing the most interesting singles matches on Dynamite prior to Fyter Fest. Were Wardlow vs Luchasarus, Colt Cabana vs Sammy Guevara, Cody vs Jungle Boy and Colt Cabana vs Chris Jericho. Well that is a flat out bad approach.
> 
> 
> They got veterans in Dustin Rhodes and Matt Hardy who have name value. Now you can't bury them and gotta give them wins vs mid card guys to them worth something. But you can have interesting tv matches vs top heels. Heck I would use Hager in that role vs top baby faces. Since he's clearly behind Cage, Archer and Brodie. So he doesn't need to be protected as much. Especially if they end up adding someone like Rusev.
> 
> 
> There's also nothing wrong with doing rematches from previous ppvs. Only rematches we really got have been Cody/Darby, Cody/Spears Mox/Janela, Jungle Boy/MJF, Darby/Sammy and Pac/Mox, Pac/Page, Pac/Omega. If you take Pac out of that well then that's really weak. Again don't need to get people sick of seeing two guys. But you can do more then they are.
> 
> 
> You can also make title matches more interesting doing 3 ways or even set up 3 guys feuding with each other which they haven't done since Janela/Havoc/Darby last year. To set up bigger match ups and protect stars from taking the pin. Another thing they should be doing is play up Mox/Cody element more.
> 
> 
> They are the shows top two baby faces and champions. Having them team together vs heels every few months could create more interest. Especially if they always don't get along and play that up for a while etc. Either way it's clear they can do more then AEW Dark line ups most weeks. Ok end of my rant lol.


Yeah, everything you've said here I agree with.

1. They're being way too Conservative with giving away big matches. They only have 4 PPVs a year. If we consider Mox, Jericho, Cody, Omega, Page and MJF as AEWs "big 6" then we haven't had any matches between any of them on Dynamite during its existence. The biggest matches we've had are Cody v Wardlow and Omega v PAC, which were really good matches but I want to see more big head to head matches.

Let's take a look at big 6 matches.

Cody v Jericho - Done at Fyter Fest. Rematch can be done on Dynamite.

Cody v Omega - hasn't been done yet

Cody v Page - Hasn't been done yet

Cody v Mox - as above

Cody v MJF - Rematch could've easily happened in Dynamite.

Jericho v Omega - happened at Double or Nothing. Rematch could've been done on Dynamite.

Jericho v Mox - Done at Revolution, rematch can be done on Dynamite.

Jericho v Page - Done at All Out, rematch can be done on Dynamite.

Mox v MJF - I'd save this one for a big PPV

Mox v Page - not been done yet.

Mox v Omega - rematch can be done on Dynamite.

Omega v Page - Similar to Mox v MJF that needs to be saved for PPV.

So yeah, plenty of big head to head matches they could be doing on Dynamite. Only Mox v MJF and Omega v Page should be saved for PPV and then even the rematches can be done in Dynamite.

Even with "big 6" guys and mid card guys they're holding back on so much.

Omega v Brodie
Omega v Archer
Cody v Archer 2
Cody v Brodie
Cody v PAC
Page v Brodie
MJF v Allin
Mox v Sammy
Cody v Cage
Omega v Cage
Page v Cage
Mox v Archer
Mox v Brodie 2
Omega v Hager
MJF v Wardlow - This one should be a slow build for a PPV.
Omega v Wardlow
Mox v Wardlow
Cody v Pentagon
Omega v Pentagon
Mox v Pentagon
Mox V Fenix
Jericho v Fenix
Jericho v Pentagon
Jericho v Allin 2
Jericho v Sammy - yeah when this happens I'd save this for PPV given the story between them.
Jericho v Archer

Holy shit man this is Just off the top of my head. I'd save MJF v Wardlow and Jericho Sammy for PPV but apart from that All these matches are quality Dynamite matches.

And then tag team matches or mid card v mid card matches.

Allin v Archer
Allin v Cage
Allin v Jungle Boy
Allin v Brodie
Brodie v Luchasaurus
Archer v Luchasaurus
Archer v Jungle Boy
Archer v Brodie
Sammy v Jungle Boy
Jungle Boy v Brodie
Hager v Luchasaurus
Hager v Jungle Boy
Hager v Sammy after the IC break up.
Hardy v Sammy
Pentagon v Hager
Pentagon v Luchasaurus
Pentagon v Allin
Fenix v Sammy
Fenix v Archer

And many, many, many more solid-great mid card matches that they're not yet giving us.

Tag matches.

Omega/Page v Bucks 2 - rematch would instantly draw giving how highly rated there first match was.

Omega/Page v FTR
Omega/Page v MJF/Wardlow
Omega/Page v Lucha Bros 2
FTR v Lucha Bros
FTR v MJF/Wardlow
Bucks v FTR - This is the one that really needs to be saved for PPV
Omega/Page v Jurassic Express
Bucks v Jurassic Express

2. You're absolutely spot on, there's nothing wrong with doing rematches at all. Several of these big matches, that I pointed out earlier in thus post could've been done on any given Dynamite. Just as an example AJ/Bryan had there what 7th or 8th match against East other in the last 2 years recently on SD and yet that didn't take away from how great that match was, in fact people are desperate for AJ/Bryan part 9. My point is that if these matches are done between two great talents people will still want to see more. I guarantee you if Mox/Omega, Cody/Omega, or Cody/Mox were done 3 times in the next year people would still want more if they knocked it out the park, but they're too scared to pull the trigger on any big match. Austin v Rock, Austin v Taker on Raw and Hogan V Sting and Hogan v Goldberg were all done on Raw or Nitro. Austin v Rock at WM17 was one of the biggest matches ever done and yet they'd faced each other on Raw quite a few times before that, if anything that made their match at WM17 even more special.

3. Again I completely agree with your last point about more triple threat matches needing done. We have yet to see a title defended on a triple threat match and it can help protect certain people as well.

Mox v Omega v Page - Very interesting title match that's not only unpredictable but would create more tension and story build between Omega and Page.

Mox v MJF v Wardlow - Similar to Omega and Page where you have a title match with very interesting dynamics.

Cody v Omega v Page - TNT title - A match between 3 friends with many different stories being told

Cody v MJF v Wardlow - more story build for MJF/Wardlow while at the same time revisits the blood feud between Cody and MJF

Other triple threat AEW and TNT title matches they could do are.

Mox v Jericho v Sammy - You could easily tease a Jericho/Sammy feud in this one
Mox v PAC v Omega - All 3 guys hate each other
Mox v Page v PAC
Cody v MJF v Omega
Jericho v Omega v MJF
Mox v Archer v Omega
Cody v Cage v Archer
Mox v Omega v Pentagon
Cody v Omega v Fenix

Just off the top of my head.

Also you could easily do fatal 4 way no1 contender matches like.

Omega v Page v MJF v Wardlow - 4 guys in a no1 Contenders match while telling Several stories in one match.

Omega v Page v Jericho v Sammy - as above.

Cody v Jericho v MJF v Sammy
Cody v Archer v Brodie v Jungle Boy
Mox v Archer v MJF v Page
Omega v MJF v PAC v Jungle Boy
Omega v MJF v Archer v Pentagon
Jericho v Allin v Page v MJF
Bucks v FTR v Lucha bros
Omega/Page v Lucha bros v FTR

I can honestly give you another 20 examples but you get the point.

4. Also one more point I want to make of my own is I think they should occasionally advertise less matches, like one week leave the show completely blank and then when the show starts give us several massive impromptu matches like we used to get during the WWF/WCW monday night wars days. That would instantly get more people to watch because we'd get that "anything can happen feeling" rather than knowing in advance the matches we're going to get. Austin taking the title off Taker was an impromptu match, Goldberg taking the titke off Hogan was the same thing where he had to beat Giant/Big show earlier in the night so he could face hogan in the main event. My point is that Unpredictability creates more interest and would draw more people in. I just want to see one Dynamite where I don't know anything that's going to happen on that night and then they completely swerve us with a big titke change or major angle or a huge big name match, give us some unpredictability on these shows.

Damn I didn't intent on making such a huge post lol. That's about a year's worth of big TV matches I've just came up with, plus the entire dynamic will probably have changed by then with possibly more names coming in.

LOl so short version of this post.

1. Give us more big matches
2. Give us more unpredictability.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Wolf Mark said:


> I'm thowing this outthere, I'm betting that what killed them ratings-wise was again Best Friends


Certainly doesn't help. But then again I watched a Dec/98 RAW last night and saw The New Age Outlaws defend vs The Job Squad, so it has happened for centuries lol.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Certainly doesn't help. But then again I watched a Dec/98 RAW last night and saw The New Age Outlaws defend vs The Job Squad, so it has happened for centuries lol.


It's the combo PP vs PNP and Omega/Page vs BF that "killed" the rating.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Certainly doesn't help. But then again I watched a Dec/98 RAW last night and saw The New Age Outlaws defend vs The Job Squad, so it has happened for centuries lol.


When you’re hot, you can get away with a lot more. It doesn’t mean it’s good or excusable when you’re not though. And was that the main event? Raw has had some dodgy main events, and there was at least one Raw where they went WAY overboard with The JOB Squad, but if it wasn’t the main event, we’re not exactly talking apples to apples here.

The problem with AEW hot-shotting is that their audience will get conditioned it and expect more. Look at what fans want now — “more big matches, more unpredictability!” That’s a dangerous precedent to set. And once AEW is done with a big match, they are done with a big match. They don’t have the luxury of just being able to cycle new guys through and change the setting.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The QH ratings show that AEW midcarders in the main event don't draw, but the women draw (when they actually have women who are women who can wrestle and who aren't dressed up like a bag of vomit). Shida and Ford should have been the main event.


----------



## Pippen94

Sasha = hotshotting


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Sasha = hotshotting


You don’t know what hot-shotting is.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You don’t know what hot-shotting is.


You don't


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You don't


Explain how Sasha is hot-shotting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well.... this is kinda true


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279488399553040385
edit> in other words, 5m a point vs 1.5m a point

who got the shit deal? AEW or FOX?


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well.... this is kinda true
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279488399553040385
> edit> in other words, 5m a point vs 1.5m a point
> 
> who got the shit deal? AEW or FOX?



So they pick a holiday weekend to make a post like that, totally ignoring how many times SD has been number 1 in the demo.


Twitter is a cesspool of idiotic people.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Explain how Sasha is hot-shotting.


Explain to me how it's not


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> Explain how Sasha is hot-shotting.


You're wasting your time.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Explain to me how it's not


Explain how Sasha (not even in the the company’s top 3 females) working with Io and Jericho (the company’s top star) working with Cassidy, an absolute unknown until a year ago...is any fucking different?


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well.... this is kinda true
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279488399553040385
> edit> in other words, 5m a point vs 1.5m a point
> 
> who got the shit deal? AEW or FOX?


Not really. Here’s why it doesn’t hold:

* It assumes the points are equal and even. What does that audience look like? SmackDown airs on FOX, so it might be more readily available in more diverse homes. Is the audience for SmackDown “cooler” than the audience for Dynamite?

* It only factors in key demo and ignores a staggering difference in viewership.

* The sheer size of the SmackDown audience versus the Dynamite audience. If you want awareness for your product, is it more useful to drop it into a pool of 2 million people or 700k people? Crossing that larger threshold is going to cost you. It’s like paying $5 million for sex with Scarlett Johansen or getting someone off the street to touch it for $1.5.

* SmackDown is often #1 or tied for it every week. This week they were tied for #2. That kind of posturing counts for something. Dynamite was lucky to be #6 this week. And again, that’s just with 18-49.



Pippen94 said:


> Explain to me how it's not


Well, you’re the one who said it, and was the one called out, so the onus should be on you. But we all know what you’re like — all bark, tear down everyone, insult people, provide no actual knowledge or commentary of your own. So I’ll go, then you are free to either ignore me or just go “no.”

The way you used hot-shotting implies a misunderstanding of what it is. Because anything NXT does is awful, I’m assuming you mean that hot-shotting is bad. It’s not. Hot-shotting _too much_ is bad.

Technically, you could say that Sasha is hot-shotting. Not in the euphemistic way you implied though. And you don’t speak technically. Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy is an attempt at hot-shotting too. Moxley vs. Cage. FyterFest and Fight for the Fallen as promotion tactics.

Hot-shotting is when you rush something to a conclusion to boost the attention on your product. Giving a big match away on free TV. Putting on a hot angle. It’s useful when you are cold to get yourself warm. The issue is when you do it too often and create such a high bar of stimulus that you can’t walk back and keep your fans, or do it too much that people are conditioned to it and don’t respond.

If Sasha is hot-shotting, and her three week stint on NXT is truly responsible for them heating up and getting back to the lead on Wednesday nights, it’s smart fucking business. Especially because you can always walk back, not do it for a long time, and then use it effectively again later. It’s not bad. Or cheap. It’s smart booking.

AEW has afterbirth after afterbirth, brawl after brawl, angle after angle, big match after big match. Good luck to them with that, because that’s actually what you mean when you say “hotshotting,” because it’s hot-shotting too much.

NXT featuring one of their recognised champions on a show? Wow, wait until they decide to have Brock Lesnar lose his shit at Keith Lee and go after him in a televised main event one week. ;-)


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Explain how Sasha (not even in the the company’s top 3 females) working with Io and Jericho (the company’s top star) working with Cassidy, an absolute unknown until a year ago...is any fucking different?


Jericho is all elite - Sasha is main roster. Popular main roster stars can be brought in to pop ratings however impact reduces every time & makes regular nxt less exciting


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Not really. Here’s why it doesn’t hold:
> 
> * It assumes the points are equal and even. What does that audience look like? SmackDown airs on FOX, so it might be more readily available in more diverse homes. Is the audience for SmackDown “cooler” than the audience for Dynamite?
> 
> * It only factors in key demo and ignores a staggering difference in viewership.
> 
> * The sheer size of the SmackDown audience versus the Dynamite audience. If you want awareness for your product, is it more useful to drop it into a pool of 2 million people or 700k people? Crossing that larger threshold is going to cost you. It’s like paying $5 million for sex with Scarlett Johansen or getting someone off the street to touch it for $1.5.
> 
> * SmackDown is often #1 or tied for it every week. This week they were tied for #2. That kind of posturing counts for something. Dynamite was lucky to be #6 this week. And again, that’s just with 18-49.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you’re the one who said it, and was the one called out, so the onus should be on you. But we all know what you’re like — all bark, tear down everyone, insult people, provide no actual knowledge or commentary of your own. So I’ll go, then you are free to either ignore me or just go “no.”
> 
> The way you used hot-shotting implies a misunderstanding of what it is. Because anything NXT does is awful, I’m assuming you mean that hot-shotting is bad. It’s not. Hot-shotting _too much_ is bad.
> 
> Technically, you could say that Sasha is hot-shotting. Not in the euphemistic way you implied though. And you don’t speak technically. Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy is an attempt at hot-shotting too. Moxley vs. Cage. FyterFest and Fight for the Fallen as promotion tactics.
> 
> Hot-shotting is when you rush something to a conclusion to boost the attention on your product. Giving a big match away on free TV. Putting on a hot angle. It’s useful when you are cold to get yourself warm. The issue is when you do it too often and create such a high bar of stimulus that you can’t walk back and keep your fans, or do it too much that people are conditioned to it and don’t respond.
> 
> If Sasha is hot-shotting, and her three week stint on NXT is truly responsible for them heating up and getting back to the lead on Wednesday nights, it’s smart fucking business. Especially because you can always walk back, not do it for a long time, and then use it effectively again later. It’s not bad. Or cheap. It’s smart booking.
> 
> AEW has afterbirth after afterbirth, brawl after brawl, angle after angle, big match after big match. Good luck to them with that, because that’s actually what you mean when you say “hotshotting,” because it’s hot-shotting too much.
> 
> NXT featuring one of their recognised champions on a show? Wow, wait until they decide to have Brock Lesnar lose his shit at Keith Lee and go after him in a televised main event one week. ;-)


Hotshotting is booking to pop gate or ratings & is often unsustainable like bringing in popular main roster stars to nxt - becomes less special everytime


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Jericho is all elite - Sasha is main roster. Popular main roster stars can be brought in to pop ratings however impact reduces every time & makes regular nxt less exciting


Are you suggesting that if Sasha moved from the main roster to NXT it would be different? If NXT was their own promotion and they actually signed Sasha Banks, it would be different? If the WWE decided to put a “main roster” show against Dynamite on Wednesdays it would be different? That’s just from the Sasha side.

What about Jericho? Isn’t he a “main roster” star that has come down to work in the small pond? If he were on the other side would that be fair? What happens when he goes on tour with Fozzy, goes back to WWE, or goes to rehab to stop all the drunk tweeting? Doesn’t AEW look less exciting now?


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> So they pick a holiday weekend to make a post like that, totally ignoring how many times SD has been number 1 in the demo.
> 
> 
> Twitter is a cesspool of idiotic people.


Even if you put this show aside because of the holiday.

Fox paid 200 a year for 3M viewers and a 1.0 in the 18-49 demo.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Hotshotting is booking to pop gate or ratings & is often unsustainable like bringing in popular main roster stars to nxt - becomes less special everytime


That’s why they stopped doing it after Survivor Series. And that’s why Sasha is likely finished there. And it’s why many have been calling AEW to stop doing so many brawls as angles and to stop doing the overwrought Cody matches/finishes.

You understand the words, but you’re not really sure how they’re applied.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Even if you put this show aside because of the holiday.
> 
> Fox paid 200 a year for 3M viewers and a 1.0 in the 18-49 demo.


Source? I bet you’re also someone who says that TNT is “happy” with 500k viewers too.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Source? I bet you’re also someone who says that TNT is “happy” with 500k viewers too.


No TNT was happy or ok with 600K the first year (that was more or less what the shows before Dynamite were doing).


----------



## The Wood

I think that FOX is okay being #1 in the demo most weeks.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Are you suggesting that if Sasha moved from the main roster to NXT it would be different? If NXT was their own promotion and they actually signed Sasha Banks, it would be different? If the WWE decided to put a “main roster” show against Dynamite on Wednesdays it would be different? That’s just from the Sasha side.
> 
> What about Jericho? Isn’t he a “main roster” star that has come down to work in the small pond? If he were on the other side would that be fair? What happens when he goes on tour with Fozzy, goes back to WWE, or goes to rehab to stop all the drunk tweeting? Doesn’t AEW look less exciting now?


Don't be disingenuous; Jericho on aew every week - Sasha on nxt is special event


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> I think that FOX is okay being #1 in the demo most weeks.


I never said the opposite, i just said that they expected way better in terms of numbers.

Don't forget that FOX was doing better numbers before and for less money


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I think that FOX is okay being #1 in the demo most weeks.


Not for what they payed


The Wood said:


> That’s why they stopped doing it after Survivor Series. And that’s why Sasha is likely finished there. And it’s why many have been calling AEW to stop doing so many brawls as angles and to stop doing the overwrought Cody matches/finishes.
> 
> You understand the words, but you’re not really sure how they’re applied.


you're confusing hot finish with hotshotting - you have no idea


----------



## Danielallen1410

Has anyone ever stopped to think maybe they just want to put on a certain type of show and aren’t overly bothered about growing their numbers?


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT appeals to people who want a serious wrestling product similar to the old days (At least that's what I'm told and what I've seen from the little bit I've watched). They take the in ring stuff seriously, the stories are treated seriously and are realistic and all of the roster look like men.
> 
> AEW appeals to people who want goofy independent style wrestling. Very rarely can you go 20 minutes without some kind of comedy being launched your way and a lot of the roster look like kids or are out of shape.
> 
> NXT is infinitely more appealing and quite frankly cooler to be watching. Imagine trying to explain Marko Stunt or Sonny Kiss to your buddy who happens to come over and catches you watching wrestling


why do you watch aew and not nxt then? Serious question.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Don't be disingenuous; Jericho on aew every week - Sasha on nxt is special event


So Jericho is more exposed. Great argument. 




Pippen94 said:


> Not for what they payed
> 
> you're confusing hot finish with hotshotting - you have no idea


Source?

Hot-shotting can be anything. It can be promoting a star, a match, a gimmick, or it can be putting on an angle or a finish to spark interest. A “hot finish,” if you want to call that a wrestling term, as opposed to an adjective describing a finish, is when a finish gets over. It’s like a hot tag, except instead of a tag, it’s the finish, lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Even if you put this show aside because of the holiday.
> 
> Fox paid 200 a year for 3M viewers and a 1.0 in the 18-49 demo.



Partnering with WWE is more than just weekly ratings. It about the brand. They have the whole library to their whim to use during a pandemic with no sports. They can use a Hogan or Austin to promote the NFL, etc. Its a very microscopic view to just look at the viewership total.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Pro-wrestling.
> 
> Cut talent that don't look like they belong, and don't have any special talents to make up for those deficits: Have guys cut promos on each other, then fight in matches with psychology. Put your foot down as a booker as to who can do dives and when. There needs to be some measure of control so shows can actually build, and the important things can be emphasised and you can actually get some people with talent properly over. Raid MLW, ROH, the NWA and overseas for talent that have star potential and/or the credibility to anchor your program in some sort of realism.
> 
> And honestly, fuck the hardcores. Most of them don't have a fucking clue, and they're going to stick with what you do anyway. What other options do they have? If they got upset because Orange Cassidy or Joey Janela wasn't around anymore (life would go on, trust me), are they going to boycott this wrestling they love _oh so much_? No. And I'd rather take the casuals and people who can actually make me money than appealing to a niche gatekeeping audience that keeps you locked away. If I were running a business, I'd want to make money.
> 
> It's not as complicated as people think. No one has tried doing honest-to-god pro-wrestling on a basic cable level for so fucking long.


problem is you are just saying what you would like and you aren’t a non wrestling fan, there is nothing they can do to get new fans unless wwe fans turn to them, now I’m going to guess a Large portion of aews audience also watch wwe, I bet it’s a very small percentage who only watch AEW.


----------



## The Wood

I mean, these are really bad examples of hot-shotting, by the way. Was it hot-shotting to get dates on Andre? Eh. You do really only talk about hot-shotting when you’re doing too much. 

NXT is not doing too much. I would argue that AEW possibly is. I feel like I have seen every match possible, even if it’s not the reality. Feuds get burnt through very quick. Jericho’s title run was over very quick, etc. They’re setting a much higher bar of stimulus.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Partnering with WWE is more than just weekly ratings. It about the brand. They have the whole library to their whim to use during a pandemic with no sports. They can use a Hogan or Austin to promote the NFL, etc. Its a very microscopic view to just look at the viewership total.


Not my fault if FOX expectation were what i wrote in my prevous post.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Guys, AEWs deal is more cost effective. Fact.
I did the calculation a while back in thus thread.

FOX would LOVE AEW on their network. Spend less money for relatively better gains. It’s a very attractable investment at what TNT paid for it.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Partnering with WWE is more than just weekly ratings. It about the brand. They have the whole library to their whim to use during a pandemic with no sports. They can use a Hogan or Austin to promote the NFL, etc. Its a very microscopic view to just look at the viewership total.


This is true too. But even so, that viewership total is huge. Let’s say that 10% of any audience can be convinced to buy a product. It doesn’t work like that, but since we’re comparing audiences based solely on these stats (according to AEW fans) let’s give them equal standing.

If AEW get 750k thousand viewers each week, they will move 75k of these products. SmackDown will move 200k. If they’re at $50 a piece, then AEW is responsible for $3.75 million to SmackDown’s $10 million.

If you’re a company, which are you going to be more interested in advertising with? People are used to buying in the sense that buying smaller is more expensive than buying in bulk, but when it comes to this level of exposure, you’re getting way more for more money.

Especially if SmackDown has no trouble selling ad space versus AEW, which has a middle-aged man yelling “Bullshit!” a lot. If SmackDown gets, say, 10 sponsors (random number) and AEW has...6. AEW brings in $22.5 million in ad revenue, versus SmackDown which brings in $100 million.

Both those numbers are really low, considering what both networks are willing to pay for them, but it’s silly to say “Ooh, 0.4 in the demo...bet they wish the deal TNT had...” No. Not unless AEW is bringing in the same ad revenue.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Guys, AEWs deal is more cost effective. Fact.
> I did the calculation a while back in thus thread.
> 
> FOX would LOVE AEW on their network. Spend less money for relatively better gains. It’s a very attractable investment at what TNT paid for it.


Okay, this is a load of shit.

What is your source for FOX wanting AEW on their network? You act like FOX couldn’t get them, haha. Spending less money = good! “Relatively better gains?” Umm. They may not want to give up their actual gains than talk in terms of relativity.

“Wait, you’re saying I spend $2 billion and get $4 billion back, but if I spend $500 million I could get $1.5 billion back?!? That’s TRIPLE THE MONEY! Why wouldn’t I take that deal?!”


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Okay, this is a load of shit.
> 
> What is your source for FOX wanting AEW on their network? You act like FOX couldn’t get them, haha. Spending less money = good! “Relatively better gains?” Umm. They may not want to give up their actual gains than talk in terms of relativity.
> 
> “Wait, you’re saying I spend $2 billion and get $4 billion back, but if I spend $500 million I could get $1.5 billion back?!? That’s TRIPLE THE MONEY! Why wouldn’t I take that deal?!”


You don't understand his post on purpose or what ?


----------



## Dr. Jones

Danielallen1410 said:


> Has anyone ever stopped to think maybe they just want to put on a certain type of show and aren’t overly bothered about growing their numbers?


If their numbers continue to dwindle, they're endangering themselves of getting dropped by TNT. That's all well and good if they want to continue to make their kind of show for their kind of fans. But if you're not on tv or get dropped to a TRU TV-like network, then you have nothing.

If Tony Kahn is really just content with spending insane amounts of his family money on a giant sandbox for him and his friends to play with, then he's one dumb motherfucker. It's a business

AEW started off with some interest. However, they failed pretty hardcore capitalizing on it and the arrow is trending down


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You don't understand his post on purpose or what ?


No, I understand it perfectly. He’s saying that AEW doesn’t cost much per viewer. But that’s bullshit reasoning for exactly why I mentioned.

Are you going to pay $2 billion to double your money or $500 million to triple it? Think about it.

And optikk once again stops at the surface. What are those viewers that watch AEW like? Their average age is 45. They are probably white. Most of them would likely be male. Are they people who buy trendy products? Are they people who decide what trendy products are?

You might take 100 “cool” fans over 1,000 uncool ones. I’m _not_ saying SmackDown has that, but I’m sure WWE, with their viewership, platform and overall presentation, has got more chance of hitting oil there.

optikk is playing with the information he has, which is all well and good, but he makes MAJOR assumptions off it which he cannot verify and are riddled with bias he does not identify.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> You don't understand his post on purpose or what ?


Seems like he does this on every topic


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> Has anyone ever stopped to think maybe they just want to put on a certain type of show and aren’t overly bothered about growing their numbers?


No because that would be stupid. You put a product on TV to get as many eyes on the screen as you can. If they didn't care about growing their numbers they could just be a large indy that puts on a big show once a month or does an internet show or whatever.

When you hit TV you have to throw what you personally like out the window and aim your product at the majority.



Danielallen1410 said:


> why do you watch aew and not nxt then? Serious question.


A serious question that I believe you've asked before.

AEW has multiple stars on it that I like, NXT only has a couple that I like.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip has proven to me he gets laid.

The Wood? He does not.


----------



## bdon

So, I get on YouTube, and the first thing that pops up is a thumbnail showing Cornette, Kenny Omega, and Richard fuckin’ Simmons.

You can’t tell me he doesn’t feel a certain way about homosexuality.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> So, I get on YouTube, and the first thing that pops up is a thumbnail showing Cornette, Kenny Omega, and Richard fuckin’ Simmons.
> 
> You can’t tell me he doesn’t feel a certain way about homosexuality.



Hes an old white guy from the south. He probably doesnt care much for homosexuals. Its nothing that should be earth shattering.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hes an old white guy from the south. He probably doesnt care much for homosexuals. Its nothing that should be earth shattering.


Some have argued differently


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Some have argued differently



If a 60 some year old southerner doesnt like gays or people of color...like....yeah....and?


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> If a 60 some year old southerner doesnt like gays or people of color...like....yeah....and?


You must have missed this convo from a few weeks back when I tried explaining that.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Chip has proven to me he gets laid.
> 
> The Wood? He does not.


More bizarre attempts to mock people for a projected sex life. Is everything okay with you NXT Only? 



bdon said:


> So, I get on YouTube, and the first thing that pops up is a thumbnail showing Cornette, Kenny Omega, and Richard fuckin’ Simmons.
> 
> You can’t tell me he doesn’t feel a certain way about homosexuality.


Yes, because Cornette’s criticism of Omega is his sexuality. It can’t possibly be his inability to present himself well in a wrestling context.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Just wanted to touch on hot shot booking.

Back in the territory days bookers would use it to manipulate a territory and boost a crowd up usually to either sell a dead territory or desperately try to get the audience back. The way it worked back then was they'd bring in a heap of stars or gimmick the matches up and race through angles to get to those gimmick matches instead of letting them resonate and getting better return down the road on them hence the hot shot.

The most recent example of hot shotting that I can recall is TNA in like 2014-2015 when they were just throwing shit at the wall hoping something would stick. Big title changes on TV, TLC matches on TV, wasting big matches on TV etc. It pretty much killed their PPV business and when they ran out of shit to do the rating dropped as well.

Sasha Banks coming down for a special one off appearance in NXT on a big show isn't really a hot shot. Bringing out main roster talent to work NXT every week would be hot shotting though. NXT building to a big gimmick match for weeks isn't a hot shot but randomly throwing it out there to try and pop a rating would be hot shotting.

Pippen definitely doesn't get what a hot shot is.



bdon said:


> So, I get on YouTube, and the first thing that pops up is a thumbnail showing Cornette, Kenny Omega, and Richard fuckin’ Simmons.
> 
> You can’t tell me he doesn’t feel a certain way about homosexuality.


He says in the segment of the video that Kenny Omega looks like Richard Simmons because of the hair, physique and the way he moves.

Also, Richard Simmons is allegedly A-Sexual not gay. I listened to an interview of his on the Howard Stern show where he was asked if he was gay and if I recall correctly he denied being gay.


----------



## The Wood

I get what bdon says about Cornette being from the south, thus having prejudices, but that’s just too general for me. The criticisms he makes about Omega and pretty clear. Yes, he talks about him being light on his feet and airy fairy, but that’s a combination of his vapidity and dance-like presentation (which Omega himself boasts about).

I get what bdon says. Some people get mad at men for wearing pink or drinking cocktails. That’s not the criticism of Omega though. It’s very much a wrestling style criticism.

Also, considering how much Cornette comments on men’s bodies and often enjoying people fucking his wife, I don’t think Cornette is 100% completely straight himself. I’m pretty sure polyamory qualifies as “queer.”

Just think the generalisation is a little off-target here.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I get what bdon says about Cornette being from the south, thus having prejudices, but that’s just too general for me. The criticisms he makes about Omega and pretty clear. Yes, he talks about him being light on his feet and airy fairy, but that’s a combination of his vapidity and dance-like presentation (which Omega himself boasts about).
> 
> I get what bdon says. Some people get mad at men for wearing pink or drinking cocktails. That’s not the criticism of Omega though. It’s very much a wrestling style criticism.
> 
> Also, considering how much Cornette comments on men’s bodies and often enjoying people fucking his wife, I don’t think Cornette is 100% completely straight himself. I’m pretty sure polyamory qualifies as “queer.”
> 
> Just think the generalisation is a little off-target here.


I don’t think I’ve ever said that Cornette’s main issue was Omega’s sexuality. I’ve often said that I agree with a lot of what he says in principle, but the things he says and way he says it reeks of that southern, close-minded thinking, no matter how liberal he votes or wants to believe. He might as well use the word ****** every time he speaks on Omega. Then you see a thumbnail with Richard Simmons, who everyone in the entertainment industry uses as a punching bag for the effeminate homosexual jokes.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Cornette has issues with homosexuality without outright saying it.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever said that Cornette’s main issue was Omega’s sexuality. I’ve often said that I agree with a lot of what he says in principle, but the things he says and way he says it reeks of that southern, close-minded thinking, no matter how liberal he votes or wants to believe. He might as well use the word ****** every time he speaks on Omega. Then you see a thumbnail with Richard Simmons, who everyone in the entertainment industry uses as a punching bag for the effeminate homosexual jokes.
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but Cornette has issues with homosexuality without outright saying it.


You go from making reasoned and measured observations about prejudice which absolutely does exist, and then just pasting it over someone like it's fact. You're more reserved and cautious with your Cody criticisms honestly, haha. 

Cornette likes his wrestlers to act like wrestlers. I don't think he cares if they blow or get blown.


----------



## bdon

I don’t care what he thinks about Omega as a performer. He can think he is fucking garbage. He is entitled that opinion. You don’t think much of him, and I don’t have any ill feelings towards you for that opinion.

The point I am making, and have been trying to make, is that the dude has some serious issues with the way he speaks about Omega that do not hide how he feels about homosexuality.

And I had not considered the news about him being a cuck until you brought it up, but that does give more perspective in my amateur psyche analysis of Cornette. He very well may have some things about himself that he never came to terms with. Projection is a motherfucker. Hah


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I don’t care what he thinks about Omega as a performer. He can think he is fucking garbage. He is entitled that opinion. You don’t think much of him, and I don’t have any ill feelings towards you for that opinion.
> 
> The point I am making, and have been trying to make, is that the dude has some serious issues with the way he speaks about Omega that do not hide how he feels about homosexuality.
> 
> And I had not considered the news about him being a cuck until you brought it up, but that does give more perspective in my amateur psyche analysis of Cornette. He very well may have some things about himself that he never came to terms with. Projection is a motherfucker. Hah


We're never going to agree on this. I know what sort of thing you are trying to get at with Cornette, but I just don't see it. His criticisms of Omega are above board from where I am (and I come from Australia, so don't make the mistake of thinking I am unfamiliar with closeted bigotry, haha). It's Omega presenting himself in a "soft" way. You can link that to homosexuality if it makes you feel that way -- that's your business. But I didn't think his comments about Sonny Kiss were homophobic either, because they're clearly about how Kiss acts in the ring. It's supposed to be a fight. If you act like you're in The Sound of Music, Cornette is not going to like it. Have kinky gay sex in your spare time, as long you're both either face or heel to protect kayfabe in case you get caught.


----------



## bdon

Well, we’ll agree to disagree, buddy...in principle. hah

Because I do think most of his criticisms are about what goes on within the squared circle.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, we're just going to have to that, haha. He was pretty harsh on NXT too this week. He actually said the best match of the night was Cody vs. Hager, with Thatcher and Lonely Orca (as they nicknamed him) being #2 but not designed to be too outstanding. He didn't even get through the entire show before he gave up, haha. 

Just to steer it back, unless the AEW hardcores really come out to support AEW next week because they've been taking a beating, their show is set up to lose a lot of viewers throughout the night. They don't even have a fap segment featuring the skimpy women for the old crowd too lazy or fetishistic to find porn.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> It's the combo PP vs PNP and Omega/Page vs BF that "killed" the rating.


bruh I hear ya, but it was non of those 2 reasons.

I put Omega and Hangman to kick off Dynamite they getting 800-900

Dat main event was a hot shotted Sasha in a dream match against a chick wit more clout than her in wrestling. Dat was da effect.
If AEW had a Tessa Blanchard to combat dat wit like a Nyla Rose, they split dat audience.

Reason AEW lost all dem views is cuz on dat week women's wrestling was respected for a GAB brand name. While dat other show was busy selling ya a dude in glasses as dat next dude.


----------



## Cult03

Just out of curiosity, does AEW always start off with a good viewership that eventually dwindles? People don't always necessarily turn off when they're done. They can give it the next segment and be done with it. There's honestly far too many variables to accurately estimate why people are switching off and that's why this specific rating system means fuck all to people like us. It's for the sponsors and that's it.


----------



## The Wood

It can vary. According to the numbers, there is usually a drop-off. It used to be that guys like Moxley, Jericho, Cody, MJF and the women would gain viewers. Now it's just the women, really. But lately they've been starting off softer. According to the numbers. Whatever they're worth.


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> I never said the opposite, i just said that they expected way better in terms of numbers.
> 
> Don't forget that FOX was doing better numbers before and for less money


Less money? Everything on Fox costs far more than SD. Brooklyn 99 cost double per hour what SD does and did less viewers on Fox. UFC turned down the $200m Fox offered (they felt they were worth $450m a year) and they were doing less viewers on Fox.

May to September each year Fox rarely got above 1 million viewers on Friday nights pre SD..













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www.showbuzzdaily.com





Silly argument anyway. For 80% of the year Raw and SD beat NBA games on ESPN and Turner. NBA tv deal is $2.7 billion per year...


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> Less money? Everything on Fox costs far more than SD. Brooklyn 99 cost double per hour what SD does and did less viewers on Fox. UFC turned down the $200m Fox offered (they felt they were worth $450m a year) and they were doing less viewers on Fox.
> 
> May to September each year Fox rarely got above 1 million viewers on Friday nights pre SD..
> 
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> 
> Silly argument anyway. For 80% of the year Raw and SD beat NBA games on ESPN and Turner. NBA tv deal is $2.7 billion per year...


Great overall points. Obviously there are variables. The NBA probably attracts a more desirable audience than Raw or SmackDown would, for example. But the idea that SmackDown is really expensive and that it isn't performing well, at least on the surface, in its slot is pretty ridiculous and anti-WWE rhetoric at this point.


----------



## K4L318

validreasoning said:


> Less money? Everything on Fox costs far more than SD. Brooklyn 99 cost double per hour what SD does and did less viewers on Fox. UFC turned down the $200m Fox offered (they felt they were worth $450m a year) and they were doing less viewers on Fox.
> 
> May to September each year Fox rarely got above 1 million viewers on Friday nights pre SD..
> 
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> 
> Silly argument anyway. For 80% of the year Raw and SD beat NBA games on ESPN and Turner. NBA tv deal is $2.7 billion per year...


this aint silly, ya doin too much thought in total viewing. If I'm gatorade, motrin IB, Dove, Pizza Hut and your 18-49 is .4 dat bill to FOX goes up. Yall think dem total views matter, it dont.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> this aint silly, ya doin too much thought in total viewing. If I'm gatorade, motrin IB, Dove, Pizza Hut and your 18-49 is .4 dat bill to FOX goes up. Yall think dem total views matter, it dont.


0.4 was tied for second place on the night. If you're investing specifically for that demo, you can do far, far worse than Smackers. Usually they are #1, or tied for that spot. You know how people make a big deal about Dynamite being "so high" in the key demos? SmackDown does better in that field and nobody talks about it because it doesn't fit the agenda. And total viewership does matter. You'll hear Chris Jericho tell you it doesn't, but if they won in viewership and not the demo, you'd hear him change his tune too.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> 0.4 was tied for second place on the night. If you're investing specifically for that demo, you can do far, far worse than Smackers. Usually they are #1, or tied for that spot. You know how people make a big deal about Dynamite being "so high" in the key demos? SmackDown does better in that field and nobody talks about it because it doesn't fit the agenda. And total viewership does matter. You'll hear Chris Jericho tell you it doesn't, but if they won in viewership and not the demo, you'd hear him change his tune too.


ya I get dat bruh. But FOX spent 200 Million, dem other shows aint spent 200M for production. Ya feel me?

And Chris wouldnt give a shit about total viewership, he been all about dat demo since AEW beat dem on opening night 




dat demo for TNT is cheaper. They aint had dat before AEW.

FOX spent a big bill on WWE. They are tying sitcoms and news show dat arent spending as much in production. Production money comes from advertiser money, advertisers are spending for FOX slot way more money than they would on a TNT and CBS and other shit.

So a .4 for McGyver for 40-50M or even 1/2 dat versus FOX seeing .4s for da bill they spent is not good.


----------



## rbl85

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, does AEW always start off with a good viewership that eventually dwindles? People don't always necessarily turn off when they're done. They can give it the next segment and be done with it. There's honestly far too many variables to accurately estimate why people are switching off and that's why this specific rating system means fuck all to people like us. It's for the sponsors and that's it.


A show viewership always go down between the first and second hour but lately it's goinf down more than before.


----------



## The Wood

Advertisers don't ask for money, they pay money. FOX asks them for money, and they probably ask them for way, way, way more money than TNT can ask for AEW. And I don't think shows are as cheap as you think they are. It probably costs that much to produce MacGyver, then you have the network pick it up and pay for it. If the average episode cost $2 million to produce, then you're getting jammed with a $42 million bill just for production. So you're looking for way more from the network. 

validreasoning has done far more research into it, by the sounds of it, but Brooklyn Nine-Nine apparently cost double what it costs to pay SmackDown, and SmackDown provides year-long content and covers two hours instead of just 22 minutes.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Advertisers don't ask for money, they pay money. FOX asks them for money, and they probably ask them for way, way, way more money than TNT can ask for AEW. And I don't think shows are as cheap as you think they are. It probably costs that much to produce MacGyver, then you have the network pick it up and pay for it. If the average episode cost $2 million to produce, then you're getting jammed with a $42 million bill just for production. So you're looking for way more from the network.
> 
> validreasoning has done far more research into it, by the sounds of it, but Brooklyn Nine-Nine apparently cost double what it costs to pay SmackDown, and SmackDown provides year-long content and covers two hours instead of just 22 minutes.


B99 is a different case, dem cats have da demand. 

Advertisers when dem network dont have da demo they pull their shit off. I meant if ya putting a .4 an advertiser is not spending your price da next time. Its serious.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Advertisers don't ask for money, they pay money. FOX asks them for money, and they probably ask them for way, way, way more money than TNT can ask for AEW. And I don't think shows are as cheap as you think they are. It probably costs that much to produce MacGyver, then you have the network pick it up and pay for it. If the average episode cost $2 million to produce, then you're getting jammed with a $42 million bill just for production. So you're looking for way more from the network.
> 
> validreasoning has done far more research into it, by the sounds of it, but Brooklyn Nine-Nine apparently cost double what it costs to pay SmackDown, and SmackDown provides year-long content and covers two hours instead of just 22 minutes.


Okay, this is a load of shit and just anti-AEW rhetoric.

What is your source for advertisers paying more to FOX? You act like TNT couldn’t get them, haha. “ It probably costs that much to produce MacGyver, then you have the network pick it up and pay for it”. Umm that’s pure speculation; it sounds like you have no idea, haha, lol.


----------



## K4L318




----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Okay, this is a load of shit and just anti-AEW rhetoric.
> 
> What is your source for advertisers paying more to FOX? You act like TNT couldn’t get them, haha. “ It probably costs that much to produce MacGyver, then you have the network pick it up and pay for it”. Umm that’s pure speculation; it sounds like you have no idea, haha, lol.


Because FOX both has more viewers and a higher 18-49 demo? Is it really that hard to follow. Why would you think that TNT, with a 0.28 on cable and only 730k viewers can ask for more than a show that just did 1.7 million with a 0.4 demo on 4th July weekend? 

The average TV shows costs $3.5 million. I actually went low on it, because I had between $1 and $3 million in my head. A MacGyver season went for 21 episodes. That means it would have cost about $73.5 million to produce a season of MacGyver. Let's say SmackDown only ran for 42 episodes a year (it's more). FOX is paying less per hour of SmackDown (quite considerably) than it would to cover the production costs for MacGyver, let alone for the rights to it. 

Yes, this is pure speculation -- I'm not the fucking accountant for CBS. But do go ahead and tell me how my reasoning is wrong.


----------



## DaSlacker

Maybe I'm wrong but one major upside to other shows (i.e Prodigal Son, Masked Singer, 911, Last Man Standing) is more often than not having deeper involvement in the production. Whether that's reruns attracting numbers equal to SDL, spin-off or selling the show abroad or on local syndication.

Due to the non stop nature of WWE there is little to no possibility of reruns.The FS1 experiment failed and the old school reruns weren't particularly impressive.

The WWE partnership still has a lot of merit but the way FOX handles the NASCAR deal (they paid 300 million per year) will draw light on Smackdown's future. NBA's Friday night games might hit them badly.


----------



## shadow_spinner

People here are saying All Out will be Moxely and MJF? Some of the promos may be nice but besides that that feud and eventual title match will be a massive eh for me


----------



## shadow_spinner

This is my card for All Out:
Moxely vs. MJF - major pass
Hangman/Omega vs. Lucha Brothers - Hope Lucha Brothers win
Young Bucks vs. FTR - FTR wins and challenge Lucha Brothers 
Cody vs. Darby - this will be Cody's heel turn
Shida vs. I guess Nyla again - sure why not


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

The ratings for this week will probably not be good because someone on reddit(who has a history of accurate results) leaked spoilers for night 2 of Fyter Fest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> The ratings for this week will probably not be good because someone on reddit(who has a history of accurate results) leaked spoilers for night 2 of Fyter Fest


It's going to change nothing for the ratings.


----------



## PavelGaborik

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> The ratings for this week will probably not be good because someone on reddit(who has a history of accurate results) leaked spoilers for night 2 of Fyter Fest
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NXT has been leaked as well.


----------



## rbl85

PavelGaborik said:


> NXT has been leaked as well.


Only the main event


----------



## The Wood

shadow_spinner said:


> People here are saying All Out will be Moxely and MJF? Some of the promos may be nice but besides that that feud and eventual title match will be a massive eh for me


That’s the logical direction. I understand where you’re coming from, because MJF’s in-ring isn’t the most dynamic, but he’s one of the best workers in the company. I think it would surprise you.

But I don’t think it’s happening. I’ve said it from the start (I think). People are so sure of it happening, but they’re not going to push MJF that hard. He’ll probably wrestle Wardlow and Mox will do something else. You watch. 



rbl85 said:


> It's going to change nothing for the ratings.


I read the point as the show has been leaked and we know there’s not a ratings growing segment in the bunch, haha.


----------



## Christopher Near

The Wood said:


> Between 50 and 60 right now is Gen X.
> 
> 
> 
> Because it’s fucking Showbuzz. Imagine if you were publishing a paper on the evolution and future prospects for television and your big argument for retaining the same strategies for data interpretation was “Showbuzz still does it that way!”
> 
> Breaking down the demos is _somewhat_ useful. It’s nice to know, generally speaking, who you are largely going to be advertising to. As people who have thought about this for more than a minute have realised though: kids could watch at their grandparents’ house. Advertisers would likely do further research past these surface-level breakdowns, which are more like a “who’s dressed best?” entertainment news list.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW fans will take whatever win they can get. And they get salty and mean when they don’t get their way. Every time NXT apparently wins in viewers, the faithful come out and blast NXT viewers for being old, boomers, etc. I think there’s something like ten years age gap between the average AEW live viewer and the average NXT live viewer.
> 
> They also never talk about how financial situations within the demos have shifted over the past 20 years. Where is the wealth really situated? Do they really think there is some magic line you cross over where you turn 50, even in 2020, where you stop spending money? What about your children/grandchildren? Do 18-49 year olds still have cable? Why are they still so allegedly desirable?
> 
> You won’t see that discussion here, because it takes away from the one area they can consider AEW a success in. It doesn’t matter if that average viewer is 45. It doesn’t matter if advertisers aren’t going after him. It doesn’t matter if cable is no longer the most effective way to reach people in that demo. Don’t question it or “you don’t know what you’re talking about.”
> 
> NXT = for boomers
> AEW = trend-setters
> 
> That is the narrative that has been decided on. Rock the boat and you’re a troll.


Trendsetters?? Lol


----------



## Klitschko

It hurts my soul a little bit to see Brian Cage segments constantly lose viewers during those breakdowns. Love that guy.

Also yea i don't think MJF/Moxley is happening at all out. MJF just has not been built up enough in my opinion. Seems like it would be the easiest title defense Moxley has had in kayfabe. 

I keep thinking that maybe Heel Cody vs Moxley at ALL OUT. I dont know why, but just have a feeling.


----------



## NXT Only

Klitschko said:


> It hurts my soul a little bit to see Brian Cage segments constantly lose viewers during those breakdowns. Love that guy.
> 
> Also yea i don't think MJF/Moxley is happening at all out. MJF just has not been built up enough in my opinion. Seems like it would be the easiest title defense Moxley has had in kayfabe.
> 
> I keep thinking that maybe Heel Cody vs Moxley at ALL OUT. I dont know why, but just have a feeling.


Cody can't challenge for the title.


----------



## NXT Only

All Out for me right now is tough because there are so many people they can/need to get on the card.

Moxley, Cody, Shida, Omega, Hangman, Bucks, FTR, Lucha Bros, Cage, Archer, Lee, MJF, Jericho, Darby, Nyla, PnP, OC, PAC, Wardlow all deserve spots not to mention Britt, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Sammy Guevara, Hager could all warrant spots in the right situation.


----------



## Klitschko

NXT Only said:


> Cody can't challenge for the title.


Heel Cody could though. It would make him even more hated if he did that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Can't wait for every AEW loyalist to use "The results were leaked this week which is why NXT won the ratings" in this thread come Thursday morning.


----------



## The Wood

It's Covid's fault. If only the live crowds could come back, they'd be doing 1 million.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Has anyone ever stopped to think maybe they just want to put on a certain type of show and aren’t overly bothered about growing their numbers?


This is absolutely insane.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can't wait for every AEW loyalist to use "The results were leaked this week which is why NXT won the ratings" in this thread come Thursday morning.


Already said that it will have 0 impact on the ratings.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can't wait for every AEW loyalist to use "The results were leaked this week which is why NXT won the ratings" in this thread come Thursday morning.


And because it’s a possibility you and the Cynical 6 will still destroy anything regarding the show and it’s rating.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT Only said:


> And because it’s a possibility you and the Cynical 6 will still destroy anything regarding the show and it’s rating.


I genuinely love the nicknames you guys come up with for us. The cynical 6, the angry Aussies etc. Who are part of the cynical 6? Me, Wood, Cult, Lheurch, Hammerstone, Ozell? I think we all put last weeks episode over and said it was good. I even said earlier in this thread that I hope AEW won this week in the ratings because they deserved it after a good show.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> I genuinely love the nicknames you guys come up with for us. The cynical 6, the angry Aussies etc. Who are part of the cynical 6? Me, Wood, Cult, Lheurch, Hammerstone, Ozell? I think we all put last weeks episode over and said it was good. I even said earlier in this thread that I hope AEW won this week in the ratings because they deserved it after a good show.


I like you man, I honestly do. You’re a good poster. It’s all fun and we don’t agree much and last week you were a treat as a said. We both just want a quality wrestling company.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Klitschko said:


> Also yea i don't think MJF/Moxley is happening at all out. MJF just has not been built up enough in my opinion.


MJF is literally the #1 ranked singles guy and has a PPV win over the 2nd biggest babyface in the company. He's more than ready, both in kayfabe and as a talent.



> Seems like it would be the easiest title defense Moxley has had in kayfabe.


Which is why there would be so much heat on MJF if he pulls off a dirty win, and why that feud would be even hotter afterwards.

If they do anything other than Moxley vs MJF at All Out, their ratings will continue to tumble, and I'll be one of the people tuning out.


----------



## The Wood

AEWMoxley said:


> MJF is literally the #1 ranked singles guy and has a PPV win over the 2nd biggest babyface in the company. He's more than ready, both in kayfabe and as a talent.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why there would be so much heat on MJF if he pulls off a dirty win, and why that feud would be even hotter afterwards.
> 
> If they do anything other than Moxley vs MJF at All Out, their ratings will continue to tumble, and I'll be one of the people tuning out.


I completely agree, and doing it is the right thing, but I’ll believe it when I see it.


----------



## rexmundi

Judging by the recent trend, I expect to see NXT carry the night, epecially on the strength of their main event. Losing Mox/Cage is only going to exacerbate the beatdown.


----------



## Pippen94

rexmundi said:


> Judging by the recent trend, I expect to see NXT carry the night, epecially on the strength of their main event. Losing Mox/Cage is only going to exacerbate the beatdown.


Maybe total viewers - I think aew will extend demo advantage


----------



## rbl85

rexmundi said:


> Judging by the recent trend, I expect to see NXT carry the night, epecially on the strength of their main event. Losing Mox/Cage is only going to exacerbate the beatdown.


I think the Cole vs Lee will be less popular for the 50+ demo than Io vs Sasha.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite's average viewership and ratings 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating
10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating
10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating
10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating
10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating
11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating
11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating
11/20/19 893,000 0.39 rating
11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating
12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating
12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating
12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Average viewership 911k viewers 0.38 rating for 2019

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating
1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating
1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating
2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating
2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating
2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating
2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating
3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating
3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Average viewership 884k viewers and 0.33 rating Thats a 9% viewership drop and 15% drop in ratings

During pandemic
3/18/20 932,000 0.35 rating
3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating
4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating
4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27 rating
5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating
5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating
5/20/20 701,000 viewers 0.26 rating
5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating
6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating
6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating
6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating
6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating
7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating

Average viewership 731k viewers and 0.27 rating thats a 30% drop in viewership and a 22% drop in the rating.

Overall thats 46% drop in viewers and 85% ratings drop from the debut


----------



## The Wood

Guys, it’s the news. They’ll be up to 1 million soon.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict 825k .27 for NXT, 595k .19 for AEW

I think Keith Lee has a shot at being a draw. Tonight that theory is tested. He doesn't have to be bothered losing viewers to Mox/Cage, an MJF segment, or hell even a Cody Rhodes vs Mystery Opponent match. He gets to go against Orange Cassidy the Main Eventer. I was a fan of Orange Cassidy the guy that popped in odd places and I imagined the OC that competed for the badly needed LightheavycrusierweightX Division title. 

But putting him in the main event v Chris Jericho against 2 of the 3 guys that could be matched up on the other companies (Cole/Lee/Kross) show is absurd. They are doing the equivalent of 2 out of Jericho, Mox, & MJF fighting for a TNT & AEW Championship, Winner Takes All match.

FOR REAL?


----------



## The Wood

If you want predictions, 800k for NXT, 700k for AEW.


----------



## rbl85

Both shows will be done from last week.


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> I predict 825k .27 for NXT, 595k .19 for AEW
> 
> I think Keith Lee has a shot at being a draw. Tonight that theory is tested. He doesn't have to be bothered losing viewers to Mox/Cage, an MJF segment, or hell even a Cody Rhodes vs Mystery Opponent match. He gets to go against Orange Cassidy the Main Eventer. I was a fan of Orange Cassidy the guy that popped in odd places and I imagined the OC that competed for the badly needed LightheavycrusierweightX Division title.
> 
> But putting him in the main event v Chris Jericho against 2 of the 3 guys that could be matched up on the other companies (Cole/Lee/Kross) show is absurd. They are doing the equivalent of 2 out of Jericho, Mox, & MJF fighting for a TNT & AEW Championship, Winner Takes All match.
> 
> FOR REAL?


I think you got demos wrong way round


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT will win. Even the hardcore AEW fans are saying this show sucked.


----------



## Oracle

No chance this show beats NXT.

i dont even think AEW will win again for some time


----------



## midgetlover69

Arguing about a “ratings war” between 2 companies that both get abysmal viewers is beyond comical


----------



## The Wood

I can actually see AEW getting the pity win this week. It's the same 1.5 million people who watch each week. I can see them galvanising behind the idea that AEW needs to win, so we'll watch that. The fucking car wreck that is their booking might serve as a lightning rod which AEW hardcores will use to defend it, but the fatigue is in and fans will turn away in due time. And the hardcores on here will act confused as to why.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I predict that AEW will do about 630k, and NXT will do about 700k. AEW just hates ratings and hates doing things that would create ratings. I feel like in their creative meetings right now they are in denial that there is something they are doing wrong. It can't possibly be because you aren't understanding your audience and you're not casting a wider net beyond single white men with no kids. You have no black star. You give no shits about making a Latino star of Fenix. You keep focusing on Nyla Rose instead of hot women. Sex sells. You seem to hate women wrestling. The women's division beyond Baker, Swole, Ford and Shida is a barf bag of muffin-topping indie girls that don't belong on tv.

It was only just over a month ago that they had a hot episode with Mike Tyson and all this crossover attention, and since then they have squandered it by putting Sonny Kiss and Abadon on television and focusing on midcarders like Brodie Lee and Cabana. Where is the sports appeal for the sport viewers that tuned in? Where did Tyson and his crew vanish to? Mox has been off tv for a month. And to top it off, they are going to pass on Tessa Blanchard and continue to pass on Austin Aries while bringing in more jobbers: Brian Pillman Jr and Zack Ryder.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Mister Sinister said:


> I predict that AEW will do about 630k, and NXT will do about 700k. AEW just hates ratings and hates doing things that would create ratings. I feel like in their creative meetings right now they are in denial that there is something they are doing wrong. It can't possibly be because you aren't understanding your audience and you're not casting a wider net beyond single white men with no kids. You have no black star. You give no shits about making a Latino star of Fenix. You keep focusing on Nyla Rose instead of hot women. Sex sells. You seem to hate women wrestling. The women's division beyond Baker, Swole, Ford and Shida is a barf bag of muffin-topping indie girls that don't belong on tv.
> 
> It was only just over a month ago that they had a hot episode with Mike Tyson and all this crossover attention, and since then they have squandered it by putting Sonny Kiss and Abadon on television and focusing on midcarders like Brodie Lee and Cabana. Where is the sports appeal for the sport viewers that tuned in? Where did Tyson and his crew vanish to? Mox has been off tv for a month. And to top it off, they are going to pass on Tessa Blanchard and continue to pass on Austin Aries while bringing in more jobbers: Brian Pillman Jr and Zack Ryder.


Speaking of Abadon, where is she after her very quick squash match 2-3 weeks ago? What was the point in squashing Anna Jay (Or anyone really) if we're not going to have any follow up for close to a month.

Also, wasn't Anna Jay convinced to join The Dark Order that same week? We've legitimately got no update on it since.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> I can actually see AEW getting the pity win this week. It's the same 1.5 million people who watch each week. I can see them galvanising behind the idea that AEW needs to win, so we'll watch that. The fucking car wreck that is their booking might serve as a lightning rod which AEW hardcores will use to defend it, but the fatigue is in and fans will turn away in due time. And the hardcores on here will act confused as to why.


so if NXT win it’s haha AEW

if AEW win it’s a pity win. what a fucking troll. Stupid twat.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> so if NXT win it’s haha AEW
> 
> if AEW win it’s a pity win. what a fucking troll. Stupid twat.


Yeah, most likely. Reality is reality, Danielallen1410. Why do you think AEW was winning in the first place and NXT turned it around? 

A big problem the Monday Night Wars brought in is how people use ratings information. They apply it to the week as some sort of live scorecard, which isn't even true when the numbers are huge (which they aren't). These are hangovers from guys like Bischoff and Russo. You need to have some sort of compass for what is actually good and _why_ numbers are the way they are, and not just taking them like some people do, to use an example, Orange Cassidy memes being shared = good. That's if you're going to put any stock into them at all. There is a useful way to use numbers and a bullshit way. 

For example, if a wrestling show suddenly increased its audience by 200%, then that's something fucking noteworthy and a good indicator you are doing something right. A 2% switch either way when the ratings are as low as they are is probably pretty insignificant and could be explained by a common cold keeping a few people at home. Is a segment that does a 9.0 necessarily a good segment? Especially if those people never come back? Is a segment that does 600k viewers necessarily a bad segment? Especially if you've conditioned your audience to expect car crashes and nothing substantial? The ratings don't inherently tell a story in and of themselves. They can tell last week's story, this week's story or next week's story. You've got to be able to interpret and apply information though, and not just take the information as if it is some sort of magic green tick. 

Do you want to know the story of the ratings? About one a half million fans who are burnt out on WWE heard through the internet that a new wrestling promotion not run by a McMahon was starting up and it had Chris Jericho and Jim Ross attached. It was also getting the hottest free agents in the wrestling world -- this gang of hold-outs that included Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks, Adam Page and Cody Rhodes. They were going to do pro-rasslin' the way it was supposed to be done, without the silliness and tropes of the WWE, who exist in their own bubble and prevent people from getting over and being stars. So they wanted to support it. They have bought tickets, ordered PPVs at $50 a pop, bought t-shirts and gone online to defend almost any decision the company makes. These are the good guys. And they prioritise their TV show over the admittedly good and not Vince run NXT, although it is still under the WWE corporate umbrella, so it can get fucked. It is #2 and we'll catch that on the flip-side. 

As many have implied -- either as a warning or a worry -- that goodwill is not eternal. It doesn't even come from quality. Yes, _everybody_ loved Cody vs. Dustin Rhodes. Yes, everybody loves MJF's promos. Yes, everybody sees potential in Jungle Boy and Sammy Guevara. But at some point you have to be good. At some point you can't ride the potential wave. There hasn't been anything like Cody vs. Dustin Rhodes since. MJF often doesn't talk. Jungle Boy and Sammy Guevara are just there (well, Sammy's not for obvious reasons). Everybody loves managers and tag teams. AEW has a lot of them. Do they have many good ones though? Or is it a token nod to the whims and fetishes of the online fan? Managers = cool, so if they just have managers they must be cool, right? If they say tag team wrestling is important, no need to actually have tag teams that follow the rules, right? 

This is turning into a rant, but to dial it back in: NXT turned things around a couple of weeks ago because the goodwill is finally being pushed to a breaking point. I can feel it in my bones, and I know I am right about this. I have faith in my compass as a devotee of wrestling for my entire adult life and as someone with a pretty damn good brain in my skull. Does that make me arrogant? Fucking sure, but I will bet the farm on my opinion, because I trust it. Maybe you trust your opinion? Cool. The thing is, I've got data to back up mine: As soon as Orange Cassidy started getting shit in on Jericho, this shit dropped. Hard. NXT started beating AEW after a pretty pedestrian show the week after Jericho got a sack of oranges and beat Cassidy to a "pulp." I've got that on my side. I have posters on here that were really gun-ho about AEW, long after I had succumbed to my cynical side, saying "This is it for me." Are they trolls? Are they all fucking twats? Are they "soulless" like Chris Jericho says when he's drunk on Twitter? 

NXT started beating AEW a few weeks ago because NXT is better. It just is. AEW fans will argue black-and-blue with me, talk about subjectivity, call me a boomer in spirit, whatever. That is what happened. Deal with it. But since we are dealing with such a hardcore audience, yes, I see some of them doing their best to fight the changing tides and stick it to the evil empire. This isn't completely anomalous in television. When it is announced shows get cancelled, sometimes they get a surge in popularity that they didn't have before that news became public. If AEW beats NXT in the ratings, I know it's not because they were better -- I watched that show and know it was the drizzling shits. It's because you're dealing with the mobilised fans that sold out a building in Chicago because they wanted to be a part of something. 

Logic would dictate that the pattern holds up, and the better promotional package beats the show losing steam and fandom. This caveat is probably all for nought. I predicted 800k for NXT and 700k for AEW, but it might be more dramatic than that, which would be just desserts for people to sit with as they tell me again how Orange Cassidy is a star.


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Speaking of Abadon, where is she after her very quick squash match 2-3 weeks ago? What was the point in squashing Anna Jay (Or anyone really) if we're not going to have any follow up for close to a month.
> 
> Also, wasn't Anna Jay convinced to join The Dark Order that same week? We've legitimately got no update on it since.


That's long term booking bro, you know, like all of the other things they've just given up on.


----------



## The Wood

Remember the judges for title matches?


----------



## rbl85

Oracle said:


> No chance this show beats NXT.
> 
> i dont even think AEW will win again for some time


Did you watch NXT this week ?


----------



## thorn123

I don’t care about winning ratings, as long as there are enough viewers to allow AEW to keep producing great shows.


----------



## Swan-San

Chip Chipperson said:


> Speaking of Abadon, where is she after her very quick squash match 2-3 weeks ago? What was the point in squashing Anna Jay (Or anyone really) if we're not going to have any follow up for close to a month.
> 
> Also, wasn't Anna Jay convinced to join The Dark Order that same week? We've legitimately got no update on it since.


All I can do is laugh tbh, so incompetent


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Anyone else pick up on the little cheat that AEW threw in? With OC and Jericho getting the lowest rated segment ever a few weeks back and Jericho taking to social media pushing the demos, which was a little sad. This week with OC and Jericho ending the show, this is the first time ever that they have gone over 10:00. Were they that embarrassed, angry, or self aware that they knew their main event would not hold up against Lee/Cole and needed to try and pad their final number?


----------



## rbl85

Bloody Warpath said:


> Anyone else pick up on the little cheat that AEW threw in? With OC and Jericho getting the lowest rated segment ever a few weeks back and Jericho taking to social media pushing the demos, which was a little sad. This week with OC and Jericho ending the show, this is the first time ever that they have gone over 10:00. Were they that embarrassed, angry, or self aware that they knew their main event would not hold up against Lee/Cole and needed to try and pad their final number?


For me it ended at 09:58.


----------



## RiverFenix

Here's hoping OC/Jericho gets blown out by Cole/Lee. AEW needs a wake up call desperately.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Here's hoping OC/Jericho gets blown out by Cole/Lee. AEW needs a wake up call desperately.


Because if it did good then that would mean that you're the one needing a wake up call ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Here's hoping OC/Jericho gets blown out by Cole/Lee. AEW needs a wake up call desperately.


remember that this wasn't meant to be the original headliner.



rbl85 said:


> Because if it did good then that would mean that you're the one needing a wake up call ?


that's true. if AEW are competitive with that final quarter, minds will be blown. i doubt it thou


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Mister Sinister said:


> I predict that AEW will do about 630k, and NXT will do about 700k. AEW just hates ratings and hates doing things that would create ratings. I feel like in their creative meetings right now they are in denial that there is something they are doing wrong. It can't possibly be because you aren't understanding your audience and you're not casting a wider net beyond single white men with no kids. You have no black star. You give no shits about making a Latino star of Fenix. You keep focusing on Nyla Rose instead of hot women. Sex sells. You seem to hate women wrestling. The women's division beyond Baker, Swole, Ford and Shida is a barf bag of muffin-topping indie girls that don't belong on tv.
> 
> It was only just over a month ago that they had a hot episode with Mike Tyson and all this crossover attention, and since then they have squandered it by putting Sonny Kiss and Abadon on television and focusing on midcarders like Brodie Lee and Cabana. Where is the sports appeal for the sport viewers that tuned in? Where did Tyson and his crew vanish to? Mox has been off tv for a month. And to top it off, they are going to pass on Tessa Blanchard and continue to pass on Austin Aries while bringing in more jobbers: Brian Pillman Jr and Zack Ryder.


Agree with alot of what you are saying other than Pillman Jr. Id much, much rather have him than Aries. And id add Anna Jay to your list of females, she is the top one for me, holy smokes.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Because if it did good then that would mean that you're the one needing a wake up call ?


No, but it helps if reality stares down these fuckers like a shotgun. They need to stop denying.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> No, but it helps if reality stares down these fuckers like a shotgun. They need to stop denying.


Personally as long as i like the majority of what i see.....i'm not going to ask for them to change a lot of things because i might like less the show after that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

In how many hours do we usually get the numbers? I'm on a night shift and have a few hours to go so the ratings would be fun to analyse right now.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> In how many hours do we usually get the numbers? I'm on a night shift and have a few hours to go so the ratings would be fun to analyse right now.


4 pm est (i think because it's at 10pm in France)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

5 hours, my shift ends in four. Drats!


----------



## The Wood

Haha, sorry to hear your pain, Chip.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Because if it did good then that would mean that you're the one needing a wake up call ?


No, it will mean I need to reassess if I want to keep watching.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> No, it will mean I need to reassess if I want to keep watching.


What a wrestling fan you are


----------



## NXT Only

400K tops, no way they do more than that


----------



## Hephaesteus

I believe people setting themselves up for failure making such bold predictions


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Personally as long as i like the majority of what i see.....i'm not going to ask for them to change a lot of things because i might like less the show after that.


If this same statement is said about any other promotion, the person making that statement would be insulted and called a shill.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> If this same statement is said about any other promotion, the person making that statement would be insulted and called a shill.


I'm paying to watch the show so if i'm not 100% sure that changes are going to benefit me i'm not 100% ok with it.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> I'm paying to watch the show so if i'm not 100% sure that changes are going to benefit me i'm not 100% ok with it.


People pay to watch other promotions as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Here's hoping OC/Jericho gets blown out by Cole/Lee. AEW needs a wake up call desperately.


you didn‘t like the ME?

ps> 650k on AEW, uhmmm 0.23 in the demo

highest Q = anything with the majority of the 8-man tag match

edit> next week will be more interesting with a title match main event that is unspoiled


----------



## fabi1982

Sadly AEW will win.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Sadly AEW will win.


Why sadly ?

Did you watch NXT before saying that ?


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> What a wrestling fan you are


I'm unwilling to support something that I don't like. Do you continue to go to restaurants with bad service and bad food? If that main event beats Cole/Lee title change then it means that what AEW is doing is working for them and they'll continue to do it (and rightly so) but it will also indicate to me that AEW is not for me.


----------



## NXT Only

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I'm unwilling to support something that I don't like. Do you continue to go to restaurants with bad service and bad food? If that main event beats Cole/Lee title change then it means that what AEW is doing is working for them and they'll continue to do it (and rightly so) but it will also indicate to me that AEW is not for me.


Your measurement for AEW doing something right is whether their main event beats NXTs? Ehh that’s a bit insane. In all reality a title match of that magnitude should beat a grudge match. Doesn’t mean AEW or NXT did something wrong should they lose.

I do respect you saying that maybe AEW isn’t for you, most guys can’t admit that. When I learned RAW wasn’t for me anymore it sucked cause I enjoy wrestling but it gave 3 hours back on Monday I otherwise wouldn’t have had.


----------



## Jman55

rbl85 said:


> What a wrestling fan you are


Can we not do bullshit gatekeeping of being a wrestling fan like this they're allowed to not be an AEW fan and are still a wrestling fan if they like other companies. I fucking love AEW and the majority of their current direction I like so I'm about as big a fan of them as they come so I'm not planning to stop anytime soon (and I really liked the main event even if it was clearly inferior to Lee vs Cole it was still a great match to me) but if someone doesn't like it as much as me and are considering dropping it they aren't a lesser wrestling fan than me that's just stupid they have their own tastes.

In terms of ratings expectations given NXT's mammoth main event seems easy to predict for me that they will win this week which though obviously understandable disappoints me cause I much preferred last nights show to night 1 of Fyter Fest and feel it will deserve more than it's likely to get.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Why sadly ?
> 
> Did you watch NXT before saying that ?


Because the show was utter shit and with AEW winning they will not learn that they have to change things. EARTHSHATTERING things.


----------



## Dark Emperor

I think it was be similar to last week. NXT 780k, AEW 720K. Demos probably closer but AEW still ahead there.


----------



## El Hammerstone

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-08-WED.png


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT 759k and Dynamite 715k viewers isn't shocking and Dynamite losing viewers wasn't shocking either.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-08-WED.png


wtf


----------



## NathanMayberry

0 surprise there... 


I can't wait to read Jericho's excuses this week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

i expected NXT to slaughter AEW in the key demo. Complete opposite.


----------



## Prosper

715K for AEW. 759K for NXT.

AEW wins the 18-49 demo placing #7.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

Now let’s see what the quarterly numbers.


----------



## El Hammerstone

AEW- 715,000
NXT- 759,000

AEW 7th in demo, NXT 24th


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> AEW- 715,000
> NXT- 759,000
> 
> AEW 7th in demo, NXT 24th


im genuinely surprised tbh
especially because that demo is higher than average for AEW.

proof that spoilers don't reduce ratings.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> i expected NXT to slaughter AEW in the key demo. Complete opposite.


A lot of older folk watching NXT on cable I guess.


----------



## Erik.

Ah, it's gone down this week? 

Shock.

Up, down, up, down, up, down.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> im genuinely surprised tbh
> especially because that demo is higher than average for AEW.
> 
> proof that spoilers don't reduce ratings.


Last weeks demo was 0.29 and this weeks 0.27, hoe is that „higher than average“, especially with them having 0.3+ demos not long ago?


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW held the demo only dropping from .29 to .28 and NXT actually went down in both viewers and demo from last week. I thought this would be their best chance for a demo win. I really thought NXT would get to 800K. I imagine AEW gets the sweep next week with Mox returning. 

Last night was an up and down show. Last week was better but that 8 man tag was a fun trainwreck and the heels win didn't see that. Archer should have won quicker IMHO. I really like Hangman/Kenny's work together. Jericho/Cassidy was entertainment and sometimes myself included take this stuff too serious. Sonny Kiss to me is Dark caliber and should stay on there and away from any title.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> Ah, it's gone down this week?
> 
> Shock.
> 
> Up, down, up, down, up, down.


Wouldn't be surprised if it jumps way up for next week. Mox vs Cage, FTR vs Lucha Bros, all on another themed show. Stacked card, I can't wait.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> A lot of older folk watching NXT on cable I guess.





optikk sucks said:


>


this still stands then

so looks like AEW kept their younger demo (actually increased that younger demo). lost a bit of their boomer demo.

maybe OC draws the youngsters


----------



## Jman55

closer than I expected and better for Dynamite than I expected I have no complaints about that. NXT deserved the overall ratings win but surprised at the demo difference thought this would have been their big night in that regard and especially shocked they lost viewers with the big main event.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Last weeks demo was 0.29 and this weeks 0.27, hoe is that „higher than average“, especially with them having 0.3+ demos not long ago?


average = mean. you know. you add the numbers and you divide by the total.

not just last week.


----------



## Chan Hung

So NXT wins a third week in a row? But AEW wins in the key demos? Is that a correct observation?


----------



## MrThortan

I don't think AEW is going to ever get complacent while only drawing beneath a million views. I am sure they know they need to get better. Dynamite hasn't even been on for a year yet. I think they are still hindered by covid. It came at a horrible time for the company, and I am surprised that they are still able even have shows going.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

y'all telling me that the stacked NXT card barely took any eyes away from aew.

against OC and Jericho and the other garbage which a lot of the whiners complained about and discussed how AEW were flopping?????

LMAO. Eat your words im dying here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mmm - interesting

think next week is going to kill it as a result

good number with a changed ME and spoilers / next week should be a 850+ night?


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> AEW- 715,000
> NXT- 759,000
> 
> AEW 7th in demo, NXT 24th


Solid rating for pandemic. Especially for a tape show and missing Cage/Mox title match. I think next week AEW will win viewership and demo with Mox/Cage and FTR/Lucha Bros. I wonder how long these 50+ will stay watching NXT. Especially if Sasha/Bayley aren't on there for a few weeks.


----------



## Prosper

Jman55 said:


> closer than I expected and better for Dynamite than I expected I have no complaints about that. NXT deserved the overall ratings win but surprised at the demo difference thought this would have been their big night in that regard and especially shocked they lost viewers with the big main event.


As you can see below, supposedly USA Network gave them no commercials for the title unification main event in an effort to beat Fyter Fest so I'm sure they won the final quarter against OC/Jericho. But not winning the demo this week is kinda crazy, especially with no Mox/Cage. AEW will probably pounce next week. No more big matches to give away on NXT unless they call down a main roster guy or put Sasha Banks back on the show.



_"As a way to counter the special episodes of Dynamite from AEW with Fyter Fest on TNT, WWE decided to air two special episodes of NXT with the Great American Bash theme.

As part of these special NXT broadcasts, the shows aired with limited commercial interruptions. It turns out that it was the USA Network that made the decision for this change.

Dave Meltzer reported the news on the latest episode of Wrestling Observer Radio. The belief is that this situation was due to the network wanting to beat Fyter Fest in the ratings. So far, NXT has won the last two weeks in total viewership, but last week’s AEW show won in the key ratings demographic.

Meltzer thought it was very clear that Wednesday’s NXT show was all about winning the ratings battle and not about making money for the USA Network as they really wanted to win.

The viewership numbers for both shows from Wednesday night will come out this afternoon. That’s when we will find out whether the move paid off and NXT extended its winning streak over the rival show.

In addition to having limited commercial interruptions, there were also more picture-in-picture commercial breaks than usual on Wednesday’s NXT.

Fewer commercials were shown in the second hour, but no commercials for the main event that saw Keith Lee win the WWE NXT Title from Adam Cole in a Winner Takes All Match."

Reason why WWE NXT: Great American Bash featured limited commercial interruptions | Wrestling News_


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THEIR MAIN EVENT


----------



## PavelGaborik

Closer than I expected. 

AEW should win next week unless NXT throws some more main roster talent there just for views.


----------



## Whoanma

Jman55 said:


> closer than I expected and better for Dynamite than I expected I have no complaints about that. NXT deserved the overall ratings win but surprised at the demo difference thought this would have been their big night in that regard and *especially shocked they lost viewers with the big main event.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Top 10 in the Demo again - that is really solid

I definitely thought they were going to drop this week

i’m a little shocked



prosperwithdeen said:


> As you can see below, supposedly USA Network gave them no commercials for the title unification main event in an effort to beat Fyter Fest so I'm sure they won the final quarter against OC/Jericho. But not winning the demo this week is kinda crazy, especially with no Mox/Cage. AEW will probably pounce next week.
> 
> 
> 
> _"As a way to counter the special episodes of Dynamite from AEW with Fyter Fest on TNT, WWE decided to air two special episodes of NXT with the Great American Bash theme.
> 
> As part of these special NXT broadcasts, the shows aired with limited commercial interruptions. It turns out that it was the USA Network that made the decision for this change.
> 
> Dave Meltzer reported the news on the latest episode of Wrestling Observer Radio. The belief is that this situation was due to the network wanting to beat Fyter Fest in the ratings. So far, NXT has won the last two weeks in total viewership, but last week’s AEW show won in the key ratings demographic.
> 
> Meltzer thought it was very clear that Wednesday’s NXT show was all about winning the ratings battle and not about making money for the USA Network as they really wanted to win.
> 
> The viewership numbers for both shows from Wednesday night will come out this afternoon. That’s when we will find out whether the move paid off and NXT extended its winning streak over the rival show.
> 
> In addition to having limited commercial interruptions, there were also more picture-in-picture commercial breaks than usual on Wednesday’s NXT.
> 
> Fewer commercials were shown in the second hour, but no commercials for the main event that saw Keith Lee win the WWE NXT Title from Adam Cole in a Winner Takes All Match."
> 
> Reason why WWE NXT: Great American Bash featured limited commercial interruptions | Wrestling News_



Ooofff - that is very telling

and it didn’t really do jack shit

how many commercial breaks did AEW do in the ME? I think it was 2?


----------



## Mister Sinister

715k is nothing to celebrate. This should panic the shit out of them and make them rethink bullshit like Sonny Kiss in a title match (and being on television at all). They can be number 1 in the demo and still lose to NXT in total viewers because they aren't casting a wide net. You can't win by casting a net only to politically progressive, younger, white viewers. You have to stop alienating older viewers, blacks and Latinos if you want a solid million viewers each week.


----------



## Pippen94

Another win for aew



Mister Sinister said:


> 715k is nothing to celebrate. This should panic the shit out of them and make them rethink bullshit like Sonny Kiss in a title match (and being on television at all). They can be number 1 in the demo and still lose to NXT in total viewers because they aren't casting a wide net. You can't win by casting a net only to politically progressive, younger, white viewers. You have to stop alienating older viewers, blacks and Latinos if you want a solid million viewers each week.


Calm down Karen


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Marbar said:


> Congrats to AEW. Tonight I saw all the shit that made me stop watching pro wrestlng years ago. Proud to say I shut that shit off for the evening. Can't wait until I see their ratings tank again this week.


"tank"


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> average = mean. you know. you add the numbers and you divide by the total.
> 
> not just last week.


Even then, this is below their average


----------



## rbl85

What is the probability that both shows will lost 33k viewers ?


----------



## Jman55

prosperwithdeen said:


> As you can see below, supposedly USA Network gave them no commercials for the title unification main event in an effort to beat Fyter Fest so I'm sure they won the final quarter against OC/Jericho. But not winning the demo this week is kinda crazy, especially with no Mox/Cage.
> 
> 
> 
> _"As a way to counter the special episodes of Dynamite from AEW with Fyter Fest on TNT, WWE decided to air two special episodes of NXT with the Great American Bash theme.
> 
> As part of these special NXT broadcasts, the shows aired with limited commercial interruptions. It turns out that it was the USA Network that made the decision for this change.
> 
> Dave Meltzer reported the news on the latest episode of Wrestling Observer Radio. The belief is that this situation was due to the network wanting to beat Fyter Fest in the ratings. So far, NXT has won the last two weeks in total viewership, but last week’s AEW show won in the key ratings demographic.
> 
> Meltzer thought it was very clear that Wednesday’s NXT show was all about winning the ratings battle and not about making money for the USA Network as they really wanted to win.
> 
> The viewership numbers for both shows from Wednesday night will come out this afternoon. That’s when we will find out whether the move paid off and NXT extended its winning streak over the rival show.
> 
> In addition to having limited commercial interruptions, there were also more picture-in-picture commercial breaks than usual on Wednesday’s NXT.
> 
> Fewer commercials were shown in the second hour, but no commercials for the main event that saw Keith Lee win the WWE NXT Title from Adam Cole in a Winner Takes All Match."
> 
> Reason why WWE NXT: Great American Bash featured limited commercial interruptions | Wrestling News_


Ah I see didn't really pay that much attention when watching to the commercial breaks so didn't notice especially as I only cared about the big main event but it makes sense and to be honest even without taking away the commercials I'd have been shocked if Jericho/OC beat the title unification match in that quarter. Plus I'd hope so anyway as I'm a massive fan of Keith Lee and still enjoy NXT not really the type to care about this "wednesday night war" I just want to watch good wrestling which for me personally both provide.


----------



## rexmundi

NXT won total viewers for the third week in a row which is their most consecutive wins ever. They did lose in every single demo across the board save the 50+. For those keeping track, the cumulative scoreboard is 31-8-1 for AEW in total viewers and 39-1 in the 18-49 demo. It will be interesting to see if NXT can keep their total viewer mojo going because the demo doesn't seem likely to happen soon. Both shows lost 33,000 total viewers and each dropped slightly in the demo.


----------



## imthegame19

Chan Hung said:


> So NXT wins a third week in a row? But AEW wins in the key demos? Is that a correct observation?


Yep NXT won the viewer contest among internet wrestling fans. AEW won where it counted in demos that cable network and advertisers care about the most.


----------



## validreasoning

optikk sucks said:


> AEW DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THEIR MAIN EVENT


AEW gave away a free ppv. They had tag title match, FTR and Bucks in same ring together first time ever, Jericho in mainevent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mister Sinister said:


> 715k is nothing to celebrate. This should panic the shit out of them and *make them rethink bullshit like Sonny Kiss in a title match (and being on television at all).* They can be number 1 in the demo and still lose to NXT in total viewers because they aren't casting a wide net. *You can't win by casting a net only to politically progressive, younger, white viewers. You have to stop alienating older viewers, blacks and Latinos if you want a solid million viewers each week.*


Bolded bits is the weirdest take if you look at them in context to each other


----------



## Alright_Mate

Another win on the demos, another loss on overall viewership.

To still lose overall viewership against a show that had their main event spoilt is pretty naff.

Looking forward to seeing the Cole vs Lee and Jericho vs Cassidy comparison.

AEW will surely win all round next week, unless Cody vs Sonny Kiss has people tuning away.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

In other news 

‘DAMN YOU MTV CHALLENGE: TOTAL MADNESS’ - you have our demo

at this rate though, in 6 months or so, Dynamite key demo and one of the hours of RAW will be touching tips 

then you’ll see some fireworks


----------



## Jman55

Whoanma said:


>


Don't get me wrong I love my boy OC but I didn't expect him vs Jericho competing against a Title unification match to be even competitive so I'm very pleasantly surprised with how it turned out (though we are missing quarter breakdowns so who knows if this particular section was competitive)


----------



## EmbassyForever

Surprisingly high. Good for AEW.


----------



## rbl85

rexmundi said:


> NXT won total viewers for the third week in a row which is their most consecutive wins ever. They did lose in every single demo across the board save the 50+. For those keeping track, the cumulative scoreboard is 31-8-1 for AEW in total viewers and 39-1 in the 18-49 demo. It will be interesting to see if NXT can keep their total viewer mojo going because the demo doesn't seem likely to happen soon. Both shows lost 33,000 total viewers and each dropped slightly in the demo.


AEW lost 0.01 in the 18-49 demo (because of the women because the male demo was up)
The 18-34 demo was up for AEW by 0.04.
It's the 50+demo who was down.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

CMPunkRock316 said:


> AEW held the demo only dropping from .29 to .28 and NXT actually went down in both viewers and demo from last week. I thought this would be their best chance for a demo win. I really thought NXT would get to 800K. I imagine AEW gets the sweep next week with Mox returning.
> 
> Last night was an up and down show. Last week was better but that 8 man tag was a fun trainwreck and the heels win didn't see that. Archer should have won quicker IMHO. I really like Hangman/Kenny's work together. Jericho/Cassidy was entertainment and sometimes myself included take this stuff too serious. Sonny Kiss to me is Dark caliber and should stay on there and away from any title.


Im shocked, the Keith Lee card was their best one. I really expected a slaughter this week. Really thought people would tune in for Lee.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW Super Fan said:


> AEW is the greatest wrestling show I’ve ever seen. Everything they book and every match is top notch. Every promotion past, present, and future is inferior to AEW.


This man is spitting truth bombs right here

AEW winning new fans like this guy every day!

good going my guy!


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> Another win on the demos, another loss on overall viewership.
> 
> To still lose overall viewership against a show that had their main event spoilt is pretty naff.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the Cole vs Lee and Jericho vs Cassidy comparison.
> 
> AEW will surely win all round next week, unless Cody vs Sonny Kiss has people tuning away.


The whole AEW show was spoiled (i don't think it had any incidence by the way)


----------



## RapShepard

Look at the damage control from @optikk sucks lol. "I thought they'd lose a lot of viewers and not just some suck it haters" the hell 

But nah both shows are continuing to do good. AEW continues the trend of staying in the top 10 and NXT isn't doing as good, but has recovered from when they making the top 50 wasn't guaranteed. 

Hopefully both can get some killer stories going soon to entice folk to feel they have to tune in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> Im shocked, the Keith Lee card was their best one. I really expected a slaughter this week. Really thought people would tune in for Lee.


They might’ve done though

The Qs will tell the tale

Keith has all the potential in the world - the sort of guy I wish was in AEW

.... still won’t watch NXT for him though


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Im shocked, the Keith Lee card was their best one. I really expected a slaughter this week. Really thought people would tune in for Lee.


Maybe the quarter did really good ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Even then, this is below their average


Average post-covid is 0.26


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Average post-covid is 0.26


Was even 0.23 for a couple weeks there wasn’t it? When it was in the 600s


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

validreasoning said:


> AEW gave away a free ppv. They had tag title match, FTR and Bucks in same ring together first time ever, Jericho in mainevent.


That card was SHIT bro.

Complete SHIT. Absolute full on trash. I didn't even watch this week.

if that is your idea of a stacked PPV card, WWE has lowered your expectations.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> Average post-covid is 0.26


Oh so we are not talking average, but some slice of the cake making your argument work. I see, good job Annie


----------



## Prosper

Mister Sinister said:


> 715k is nothing to celebrate. This should panic the shit out of them and make them rethink bullshit like Sonny Kiss in a title match (and being on television at all). They can be number 1 in the demo and still lose to NXT in total viewers because they aren't casting a wide net. You can't win by casting a net only to politically progressive, younger, white viewers. You have to stop alienating older viewers, blacks and Latinos if you want a solid million viewers each week.


Well it's not really a celebration, AEW still has work to do in producing great storylines going into All Out. Though the shows are still entertaining, I can admit that they have been a little lazy coming out of DON2, so I would also like to see things pick up after Fight for the Fallen. But continuing to rank so high in the demo is what really matters as the total viewers for both shows are actually drastically higher than what the cable numbers say. Again, the cable ratings are not an indicator of the entire audience. They are not alienating every race outside of progressive white people, that's a stupid, baseless statement. 




Jman55 said:


> Ah I see didn't really pay that much attention when watching to the commercial breaks so didn't notice especially as I only cared about the big main event but it makes sense and to be honest even without taking away the commercials I'd have been shocked if Jericho/OC beat the title unification match in that quarter. Plus I'd hope so anyway as I'm a massive fan of Keith Lee and still enjoy NXT not really the type to care about this "wednesday night war" I just want to watch good wrestling which for me personally both provide.


I hear you my guy. I'm also a big Kieth Lee fan. I also don't think OC/Jericho would have won the quarter either way. I do think Mox/Cage would have won though. I am also all about just having great content from both shows every Wednesday. Getting Sasha/Io and Lee/Cole were both treats on top of Fyter Fest. Wouldn't have happened if the competition wasn't there on both sides.


----------



## imthegame19

Mister Sinister said:


> 715k is nothing to celebrate. This should panic the shit out of them and make them rethink bullshit like Sonny Kiss in a title match (and being on television at all). They can be number 1 in the demo and still lose to NXT in total viewers because they aren't casting a wide net. You can't win by casting a net only to politically progressive, younger, white viewers. You have to stop alienating older viewers, blacks and Latinos if you want a solid million viewers each week.


TNT is them to be a top 8 in 18-49 most weeks. In 2020 demos matter more then viewership. It's not like well over million people in US alone aren't watching AEW every week. When you consider dvr, on demand, app streaming and all illegal ways as well. True viewership is more flawed then ever. That is why networks and advertisers focus so much on demos. Right now TNT gonna make a lot more money on fast food commercials. Then USA gonna make on adult diapers for old guys watching NXT lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW Super Fan said:


> If it wasn’t for for the coronavirus, AEW would be the highest rated show on television. It’s that good.


More truth from my man here!


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> That card was SHIT bro.
> 
> Complete SHIT. Absolute full on trash. I didn't even watch this week.
> 
> if that is your idea of a stacked PPV card, WWE has lowered your expectations.


Last year wasn't Fyter Fest also free in the US ?

One thing that people need to take into account is that NXT did close to no commercials.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Oh so we are not talking average, but some slice of the cake making your argument work. I see, good job Annie


all shows have suffered - raw, sd, NXT

if you wish to go and look at my previous posts, I have said that coronavirus will have had an impact.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well it's not really a celebration, AEW still has work to do in producing great storylines going into All Out. Though the shows are still entertaining, I can admit that they have been a little lazy coming out of DON2, so I would also like to see things pick up after Fight for the Fallen. But continuing to rank so high in the demo is what really matters as the total viewers for both shows are actually drastically higher than what the cable numbers say. Again, the cable ratings are not an indicator of the entire audience. They are not alienating every race outside of progressive white people, that's a stupid, baseless statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you my guy. I'm also a big Kieth Lee fan. I also don't think OC/Jericho would have won the quarter either way. I do think Mox/Cage would have won though. I am also all about just having great content from both shows every Wednesday. Getting Sasha/Io and Lee/Cole were both treats on top of Fyter Fest. Wouldn't have happened if the competition wasn't there on both sides.


dude, do us a favour and just repost your epic post of last week explaining how all this works every week


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This man is spitting truth bombs right here
> 
> AEW winning new fans like this guy every day!
> 
> good going my guy!


That's definitely a burner account. One of the usual guys here created a dupe to troll. I wouldn't even entertain it. 



optikk sucks said:


> That card was SHIT bro.
> 
> Complete SHIT. Absolute full on trash. I didn't even watch this week.
> 
> if that is your idea of a stacked PPV card, WWE has lowered your expectations.


It was nowhere close to the level of their actual PPV cards.


----------



## rbl85

I think next week is going to be a huge rating for AEW.



prosperwithdeen said:


> It was nowhere close to the level of their actual PPV cards.


It was the card of a free PPV


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> *That's definitely a burner account. One of the usual guys here created a dupe to troll. I wouldn't even entertain it.*


Oh, I know

I’m just having fun until he/she goes away


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> all shows have suffered - raw, sd, NXT
> 
> if you wish to go and look at my previous posts, I have said that coronavirus will have had an impact.


You always have your points in place to defend your opinion. But you cant call it an average  and even post-covid, what would you expect when last weeks show had a .29 demo? That they will get lowest post-covid demo? How does that make sense when it still was FF and the „better day“ in day 2? But I guess you have a meme for me to respond? Or any usefull comment?


----------



## rbl85

Still i find it so funny that both shows lost 33K viewers XD


----------



## imthegame19

validreasoning said:


> AEW gave away a free ppv. They had tag title match, FTR and Bucks in same ring together first time ever, Jericho in mainevent.


Lol What match from last night would anyone pay to watch on ppv?While NXT just had their verison of Cody vs Mox.

The big match they were hyping the night on was Mox/Cage and that was delayed. Your post trying to make excuse was worthless.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, do us a favour and just repost your epic post of last week explaining how all this works every week


Lol not even worth it, I just let people argue their inaccurate information and I usually just skip over it. People are gonna believe what they want to believe anyway.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Lol What match from last night would anyone pay to watch on ppv?While NXT just had their verison of Cody vs Mox.
> 
> The big match they were hyping the night on was Mox/Cage and that was delayed. Your post trying to make excuse was worthless.


I would’ve paid for that 8man tag - it was glorious

also would have paid for Jericho / OC - not as the Main event though, but if it was on the card

the rest - true / Dynamite level card last night


----------



## ripcitydisciple

prosperwithdeen said:


> 715K for AEW. 759K for NXT.
> 
> *AEW wins the 18-49 demo placing #7.*


Which means AEW won unless NXT ranked higher.


----------



## Christopher Near

imthegame19 said:


> Yep NXT won the viewer contest among internet wrestling fans. AEW won where it counted in demos that cable network and advertisers care about the most.


But do any of us work for cable networks?


----------



## Ozell Gray

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

this should get people foaming at the mouth - they know NXT can’t catch them easily on Demo


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


----------



## Christopher Near

AEW Super Fan said:


> AEW is really popular with the young people. The people with all the money. Young people have all the money, that’s why AEW is so top notch.


Yes your name isn't biased at all


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I would’ve paid for that 8man tag - it was glorious
> 
> also would have paid for Jericho / OC - not as the Main event though, but if it was on the card
> 
> the rest - true / Dynamite level card last night


If those were 4th or 5th best matches on a ppv then sure. But very few people would spend 50 bucks those matches.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this should get people foaming at the mouth - they know NXT can’t catch them easily on Demo
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this should get people foaming at the mouth - they know NXT can’t catch them easily on Demo
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


The guy clearly has digital marketers like myself working for him. Its definitely a win, but at the same time, give us more good shit Tony! lol Hopefully the next 8 weeks heading into the PPV are epic.


----------



## imthegame19

Christopher Near said:


> But do any of us work for cable networks?


Nope but that's how it's done. You can even go to ratings sites like showbuzzdaily and see how everything is ranked for cable tv.


----------



## fabi1982

And to all the „NXT was main event commercial free when AEW did x of commercials during the main event“, why did TK tweet this: „And we’re live now with our Fyter Fest main event, we have no more commercial breaks, all action with @orangecassidy v. Chris Jericho in this amazing match! Thank you“?


----------



## iarwain

I'm not surprised NXT won this week. I like Orange Cassidy, but Adam Cole vs Keith Lee is a bigger main event, certainly at this point in time.


----------



## AEWMoxley

While what Tony says is true about the demo being the key number, it's baffling and disappointing that the entire company seems content with the current product. The product has been bad since they've gone into filler mode back in March. I don't think anyone would deny that the quality has suffered tremendously.

They better go balls out from now until their next PPV. That demo number will just continue to drop if they put on the same quality show.


----------



## Not Lying

Honestly, the people in the business are basically telling the ranking and demo matters, but people wana talk about how AEW lost.. sure.

I'm going with a wild prediction here, when/if crowds are back, AEW's will go back to beating NXT by quite a big margin regularly.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> You always have your points in place to defend your opinion. But you cant call it an average  and even post-covid, what would you expect when last weeks show had a .29 demo? That they will get lowest post-covid demo? How does that make sense when it still was FF and the „better day“ in day 2? But I guess you have a meme for me to respond? Or any usefull comment?


if you want me to be honest, i expected a 0.25-0.26. Like previous shows. This show did not deserve a good rating.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> And to all the „NXT was main event commercial free when AEW did x of commercials during the main event“, why did TK tweet this: „And we’re live now with our Fyter Fest main event, we have no more commercial breaks, all action with @orangecassidy v. Chris Jericho in this amazing match! Thank you“?


You lost this week - deal with it


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this should get people foaming at the mouth - they know NXT can’t catch them easily on Demo
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


Lol yeah internet wrestling fans all about viewership war. When it's not what matters. The fact that the owner come the company comes out and says this should smarten people up. Hes the working with the network and making revenue from the ratings. If he was disappointed with these numbers or what he said wasn't true. Then he would have stayed quiet.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> The guy clearly has digital marketers like myself working for him. Its definitely a win, but at the same time, give us more good shit Tony! lol Hopefully the next 8 weeks heading into the PPV are epic.


this is why i kinda wanted them to do badly for this show. we haven't had the best few months, have we lol


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> You lost this week - deal with it


How do I lose? I no part of NXT. I just fan. I win all time the. Gnarz


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

What will be very interesting - it seems like MTV CHALLENGE ends in 3 weeks?

will be very telling where that Demo goes

maybe NBA? Hopefully AEW


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Why does no one realize that 0.01 of a demo score is not a lot of viewers? The shows that are ranked 10 and below in the demos are very closely ranked. If you were to take of 0.01 from the key demo, then the placement would drop roughly 6 positions. Fans look at the demos like college football rankings, with the general feeling is that a team in the Top 10 is well beyond any team outside of the Top 25. When in reality, a 0.01 for a rating demographic is kind of minuscule.


----------



## Prosper

AEWMoxley said:


> While what Tony says is true about the demo being the key number, it's baffling and disappointing that the entire company seems content with the current product. The product has been bad since they've gone into filler mode back in March. I don't think anyone would deny that the quality has suffered tremendously.
> 
> They better go balls out from now until their next PPV.


I know people here don't like hearing this because it speaks too much to the reality of the situation, but clearly it was because of COVID. Everything up until DON2 was a product of the pandemic. Half the roster wasn't there. After DON2 when they started to get their feet back under them, they got a little lazy with so much time between PPV's. It was kind of "filler-ish". So like you said, there is no excuse to not have epic TV coming up after Fight for the Fallen.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> How do I lose? I no part of NXT. I just fan. I win all time the. Gnarz


Winners don't whine


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Lol yeah internet wrestling fans all about viewership war. When it's not what matters. The fact that the owner come the company comes out and says this should smarten people up. Hes the working with the network and making revenue from the ratings. If he was disappointed with these numbers or what he said wasn't true. Then he would have stayed quiet.


Too true

I doubt any of the execs from MTV CHALLENGE will be crying this week that they ‘lost’ to Hannity in the overall numbers, even though they are number 1 in the key demo / charts

none of those execs think they ‘lost’ this week


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> I know people here don't like hearing this because it speaks to much to the reality of the situation, but clearly it was because of COVID. Everything up until DON2 was a product of the pandemic. Half the roster wasn't there. After DON2 when they started to get their feet back under them, they got a little lazy with so much time between PPV's. It was kind of "filler-ish". So like you said, there is no excuse to not have epic TV coming up after Fight for the Fallen.


Pandemic doesn't seem to be going away tho


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> if you want me to be honest, i expected a 0.25-0.26. Like previous shows. This show did not deserve a good rating.


You didn‘t like it this week?

B- show for me personally

but 8man tag and OC / Jericho was great


----------



## rbl85

Christopher Near said:


> But do any of us work for cable networks?


Why do you think the shows are ranked in relation to their 18-49 demo ?


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Winners don't whine


I whine no, facts no facts. You no understand, but have no bla bubu bla


----------



## rbl85

Next week they will do more than 800K


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> Lol yeah internet wrestling fans all about viewership war. When it's not what matters. The fact that the owner come the company comes out and says this should smarten people up. Hes the working with the network and making revenue from the ratings. If he was disappointed with these numbers or what he said wasn't true. Then he would have stayed quiet.


I made a whole post about how it works a week ago because I'm in the business that Tony is talking about and some still decided to argue about cable boxes being the entire audience or the demo not being what mattered lol. But who am I? Maybe they will listen to Tony and Jericho.



optikk sucks said:


> this is why i kinda wanted them to do badly for this show. we haven't had the best few months, have we lol


Yeah it hasn't been the best, but its been this way after every PPV almost. They maybe need to add another 2 major PPV's so there isn't so much obvious filler.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You didn‘t like it this week?
> 
> B- show for me personally
> 
> but 8man tag and OC / Jericho was great


i felt like the card was not worthy of a strong rating. This whole 2 week show has been filler. No unpredictability. But then they've done very well over the past 2 weeks. They obviously understand their viewers more than a few people on WF.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> I whine no, facts no facts. You no understand, but have no bla bubu bla


Broken gimmick?


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Broken gimmick?


Tried yours, tastes like little Jimmy‘s pants, you can have it back


----------



## Prosper

Pippen94 said:


> Pandemic doesn't seem to be going away tho


At this point, they need to suck it up and say fuck it honestly. The world waited for things to get better, then when things started to open back up, everything went to shit again. They can't hold back forever. Sucks that we have to get major storylines with no crowd, but there's nothing we can do at this point. They have to convince people that All Out is worth $50, so they have no choice now.


----------



## The Wood

Pretty close to what I predicted. NXT deserved the win. Wednesdays are quieting down. They’re not making new fans, and are wearing out the ones that are around.


----------



## rbl85

Bloody Warpath said:


> Why does no one realize that 0.01 of a demo score is not a lot of viewers? The shows that are ranked 10 and below in the demos are very closely ranked. If you were to take of 0.01 from the key demo, then the placement *would drop roughly 6 positions*. Fans look at the demos like college football rankings, with the general feeling is that a team in the Top 10 is well beyond any team outside of the Top 25. When in reality, a 0.01 for a rating demographic is kind of minuscule.


No 2


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Pretty close to what I predicted. NXT deserved the win. Wednesdays are quieting down. They’re not making new fans, and are wearing out the ones that are around.


No you predicted aew would win cause fans felt sorry for them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> i felt like the card was not worthy of a strong rating. This whole 2 week show has been filler. No unpredictability. But then they've done very well over the past 2 weeks. They obviously understand their viewers more than a few people on WF.


Fair play / night 1 was definitely better / but still only B+ IMO

you’re right though - they need to kick on with a major storyline / preferably this 4 Horseman thing Cody, FTR and Spears are teasing on twitter every day


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> Tried yours, tastes like little Jimmy‘s pants, you can have it back


You're creeping me out - in a Jim Cornette sort of way


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> At this point, they need to suck it up and say fuck it honestly. The world waited for things to get better, then when things started to open back up, everything went to shit again. They can't hold back forever. Sucks that we have to get major storylines with no crowd, but there's nothing we can do at this point. They have to convince people that All Out is worth $50, so they have no choice now.


yeah they have all their talent now. just do it.

the thing is, UK have OK'd outdoor events. America's all kinds of fucked, but AEW could potentially be holding outdoor events by October maybe?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Me watching everyone go at it:


----------



## Dark Emperor

Ozell Gray said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


This is funny, the AEW higher ups are really sensitive about the low viewership that they have to respond to marks on the internet. First Jericho and now Tony Khan. Who are they trying to fool? Imagine Vince or Reigns tweeting nonsense like this.

Funny thing is, they were smashing NXT by over 200-250k viewers on a regular basis just 3months ago and NXT wasn't even on their radar. The aim was to get to 1m+ viewers regularly. Now the higher ups are content and pumping chest with 700k viewership and winning the demo against NXT. Absolute madness.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

rbl85 said:


> No 2


Carlson up, Hannity down, Ingraham down, Maddow down, Cuomo up. All shifting in the top ten.

A bunch of the non news and wrestling shows jumped in the demo, which is why NXT losing .02 means a lot. If AEW loses .02, it’s tied for 9th. If NXT loses only .01, it’s tied for 19th.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> yeah they have all their talent now. just do it.
> 
> the thing is, UK have OK'd outdoor events. America's all kinds of fucked, but AEW could potentially be holding outdoor events by October maybe?


That would be amazing! i would pay good money to attend that

was also thinking - can’t they test / vet on a 2week cycle fans for Daily’s place?

guess that might be impossible

but an open air event in London would be amazing

they also need to kick on with this Hangman / Kenny story - can’t stall much longer - time to pull the trigger

Hangman needs to be top of the singles card as does Kenny


----------



## NathanMayberry

What the literal fuck is going on here? 


The culmination match of a Chris Jericho feud that had been going on for longer than a month, drew 715 K people and AEW fans are celebrating and "AEW Haters"? This is bizarre. Fyter Fest had been advertised for over a month and was beaten by a pop up NXT Special twice, and you guys think your biggest concerns are mocking the "haters"? I'm only here to see how the Canadians are doing, not much else, but if I am Tony Kahn or die hard fan of AEW like some of you are, I'd be pretty pissed. This was a special episode of Dynamite yet was also one of the least watched.


----------



## bdon

How long are you all going to keep blaming the pandemic for their lack of gusto when it comes to storylines? It’s time to shit or get off the pot.


----------



## RapShepard

Ozell Gray said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


This is Tony's "it's not a sprint it's a marathon" moment HHH had. Just like HHH, Tony isn't wrong. But it just sounds worse because he won lol. Why are you explaining anything when you're winning, doing good ratings, and TNT is pleased with you.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> You're creeping me out - in a Jim Cornette sort of way


Because I let your girlfriend watch you have me?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> This is funny, the AEW higher ups are really sensitive about the low viewership that they have to respond to marks on the internet. First Jericho and now Tony Khan. Who are they trying to fool? Imagine Vince or Reigns tweeting nonsense like this.
> 
> Funny thing is, they were smashing NXT by over 200-250k viewers on a regular basis just 3months ago and NXT wasn't even on their radar. The aim was to get to 1m+ viewers regularly. Now the higher ups are content and pumping chest with 700k viewership and winning the demo against NXT. Absolute madness.


To be fair - they are more on socials that Vince and co

+ they get tweeted all kinds of BS at them every week

at some point, you reply - it happens

no real harm in it / its only for the smarks. + they are acknowledging they are in a ‘war’ - good way to ‘rally the troops’

no different from HHH basically saying he counter programs


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> This is funny, the AEW higher ups are really sensitive about the low viewership that they have to respond to marks on the internet. First Jericho and now Tony Khan. Who are they trying to fool? Imagine Vince or Reigns tweeting nonsense like this.
> 
> Funny thing is, they were smashing NXT by over 200-250k viewers on a regular basis just 3months ago and NXT wasn't even on their radar. The aim was to get to 1m+ viewers regularly. Now the higher ups are content and pumping chest with 700k viewership and winning the demo against NXT. Absolute madness.


Tony's tweet implies that people are blowing him up and saying that it's NOT a win. So he addresses it and says that it actually is. I don't know how that's being sensitive. Vince doesn't use social media and Roman Reigns has addressed people that have blown him up on social media as well. People were blowing him up about dropping out of Mania, so he had to make a whole 10 minute video about it. Does that make him sensitive? Or is he just addressing the noise?

Again, the cable audience is not an indicator of the entire audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> How long are you all going to keep blaming the pandemic for their lack of gusto when it comes to storylines? It’s time to shit or get off the pot.


you can literally see the whole thread here agreeing that storylines need to move on. what are you on about


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Tony types like a robot. All he has to say is we are doing fine for a new brand vs a 40 year old global brand.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That would be amazing! i would pay good money to attend that
> 
> was also thinking - can’t they test / vet on a 2week cycle fans for Daily’s place?
> 
> guess that might be impossible
> 
> but an open air event in London would be amazing
> 
> they also need to kick on with this Hangman / Kenny story - can’t stall much longer - time to pull the trigger
> 
> Hangman needs to be top of the singles card as does Kenny


i would as well

AEW need to go ALL OUT (pun intended) and give us a PPV on the goddamn beach.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> How long are you all going to keep blaming the pandemic for their lack of gusto when it comes to storylines? It’s time to shit or get off the pot.


No one is saying that it is an excuse at THIS point in time. It was an excuse prior to DON2.


----------



## Dizzie

validreasoning said:


> AEW gave away a free ppv. They had tag title match, FTR and Bucks in same ring together first time ever, Jericho in mainevent.


Lol no it wasnt, it wasnt even worthy of being a dynatime special episode which is why I just checked the highlights out instead of the full show


----------



## rbl85

Bloody Warpath said:


> Carlson up, Hannity down, Ingraham down, Maddow down, Cuomo up. All shifting in the top ten.
> 
> A bunch of the non news and wrestling shows jumped in the demo, which is why NXT losing .02 means a lot. If AEW loses .02, it’s tied for 9th. If NXT loses only .01, it’s tied for 19th.


I read to fast i thought you say that AEW would lose 6 place if the demo was down by 0.01.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> How long are you all going to keep blaming the pandemic for their lack of gusto when it comes to storylines? It’s time to shit or get off the pot.


Yeah they need to go All Out going into All Out. They probably need to reconsider their PPV model as well. They've consistently shown that coming out of a PPV they mostly just sort of dick around until they hit the halfway mark for the next PPV. They might need to go on a 12 PPV schedule that way they have to constantly be in go mode.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> you can literally see the whole thread here agreeing that storylines need to move on. what are you on about


I’m hyper scrolling and seen someone saying NOW that Fyter Fest is done, they need to start up some storylines, COVID, blah blah blah.

The fact is that after every PPV, AEW takes a month of filler bullshit to get going is a problem. You shouldn’t have to do such hard restarts after every PPV. 12 weeks or no. Good booking would prevent that. Good television formatting would prevent that.

AEW has roughly 6-8 Main Event caliber singles stars. 12 weeks between PPVs. They could have as many as 4 episodes per storyline focusing on each 2 main event level talents in said storyline, across multiple segments of the show, making TV continuity much easier to keep up, and making their main guys feel all the more important.

But my original point is that the pandemic is still ongoing. Fyter Fest is fucking over. I don’t want to hear another goddamn excuse for this company.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Hilarious how everyone wants to count demo. Am I missing something? How is 700,000 a good rating ? Lol...Trash ratings as always for a terrible show


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I’m hyper scrolling and seen someone saying NOW that Fyter Fest is done, they need to start up some storylines, COVID, blah blah blah.
> 
> The fact is that after every PPV, AEW takes a month of filler bullshit to get going is a problem. You shouldn’t have to do such hard restarts after every PPV. 12 weeks or no. Good booking would prevent that. Good television formatting would prevent that.
> 
> AEW has roughly 6-8 Main Event caliber singles stars. 12 weeks between PPVs. They could have as many as 4 episodes per storyline focusing on each 2 main event level talents in said storyline, across multiple segments of the show, making TV continuity much easier to keep up, and making their main guys feel all the more important.
> 
> But my original point is that the pandemic is still ongoing. Fyter Fest is fucking over. I don’t want to hear another goddamn excuse for this company.


yeah for sure

Somebody compared the quality/ratings pre-covid to now. and we *ALL* know the quality of the shows has taken a nosedive. So the comparison is invalid. No pro-wrestling show has done well during covid. RAW has been actually decent lately, and they're still doing bad.


----------



## rbl85

MoxAsylum said:


> Hilarious how everyone wants to count demo. Am I missing something? How is 700,000 a good rating ? Lol...Trash ratings as always for a terrible show


Because the ads revenu is calculated on the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Yeah they need to go All Out going into All Out. They probably need to reconsider their PPV model as well. They've consistently shown that coming out of a PPV they mostly just sort of dick around until they hit the halfway mark for the next PPV. They might need to go on a 12 PPV schedule that way they have to constantly be in go mode.


I was thinking 6 PPV's. One every 2 months. That way there's 8 weeks of build per PPV. That still might be a little too much free time though.



bdon said:


> But my original point is that the pandemic is still ongoing. Fyter Fest is fucking over. I don’t want to hear another goddamn excuse for this company.


Well from the looks of next week's card, it's sort of already begun.

FTR/Lucha Bros and Mox/Cage will both be awesome. FTR/Lucha Bros is a $50 PPV level match. Kiss vs Cody will be good regardless of what you think of Kiss. It's just an open challenge and hopefully Archer kills Kiss. Elite vs Jurassic Express should be good. 5/6 guys in that match will tear the house down.



MoxAsylum said:


> Hilarious how everyone wants to count demo. Am I missing something? How is 700,000 a good rating ? Lol...Trash ratings as always for a terrible show


Again, cable ratings are not an indicator of the entire audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> i would as well
> 
> AEW need to go ALL OUT (pun intended) and give us a PPV on the goddamn beach.


Dude - weekend in Brighton


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> yeah for sure
> 
> Somebody compared the quality/ratings pre-covid to now. and we *ALL* know the quality of the shows has taken a nosedive. So the comparison is invalid. No pro-wrestling show has done well during covid. RAW has been actually decent lately, and they're still doing bad.


Just wait soon it's going to be because of Cody.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I found this interesting

Article about MTV CHALLENGE being renewed for Season 36

look at the numbers quoted on Live+3 / and how different it is (more) than their initial rating

just more support that we rarely see the full picture / and there is a lot of info we are not privy to










In other... not so great news.... its Season 35 Finale is next week

Don’t think Mox / Cage is going to do as well as what I initially thought


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

lol AEW keeps winning where it matters though, i.e. the 18-49 demo


----------



## 304418

Both shows lost 33 000 each from last week. AEW won 18-49, while NXT won 50+. NXT managed to come out on top in total viewers over AEW despite their main event being spoiled. And the NXT show having limited commercial interruption probably helped to carry them to a win.

Its hard to not see this as a win for NXT. Only advertisers are happy with AEW`s rating.

It also shows that the stars that were on last week for both AEW and NXT were bigger draws than those on this week. Meaning, in the case of AEW, the audience doesn’t want comedy bullshit or stuff they think will be comedy bullshit, they want serious championship fights. In the case of NXT, it just proves that Sasha Banks is a draw. #BigDrawSasha


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Verbatim17 said:


> Both shows lost 33 000 each from last week. AEW won 18-49, while NXT won 50+. NXT managed to come out on top in total viewers over AEW despite their main event being spoiled. And the NXT show having limited commercial interruption probably helped to carry them to a win.
> 
> Its hard to not see this as a win for NXT. Only advertisers are happy with AEW`s rating.
> 
> It also shows that the stars that were on last week for both AEW and NXT were bigger draws than those on this week. Meaning, in the case of AEW, the audience doesn’t want comedy bullshit or stuff they think will be comedy bullshit, they want serious championship fights. In the case of NXT, it just proves that Sasha Banks is a draw. #BigDrawSasha


ye
except all of AEW was spoiled
and Moxley/Cage was postponed.

Advertisers and AEW head honchos are happy with AEW's rating. That's the only people who matter when it comes to being happy about ratings.


----------



## Pippen94

Verbatim17 said:


> Both shows lost 33 000 each from last week. AEW won 18-49, while NXT won 50+. NXT managed to come out on top in total viewers over AEW despite their main event being spoiled. And the NXT show having limited commercial interruption probably helped to carry them to a win.
> 
> Its hard to not see this as a win for NXT. Only advertisers are happy with AEW`s rating.
> 
> It also shows that the stars that were on last week for both AEW and NXT were bigger draws than those on this week. Meaning, in the case of AEW, the audience doesn’t want comedy bullshit or stuff they think will be comedy bullshit, they want serious championship fights. In the case of NXT, it just proves that Sasha Banks is a draw. #BigDrawSasha


Won the much desired over 50 demo


----------



## ProjectGargano

rbl85 said:


> Next week they will do more than 800K


Next week UFC runs a fight night, so it will be difficult.


----------



## TD Stinger

I like following certain things when it comes to ratings and viewership and joke about it here and there.

But my God, reading this through this thread and social media....we're talking about shows doing between 600k-800k most weeks. I mean, at what point does it not sound kind of a pathetic for people to get this heated over it. I thank God that Twitter wasn't a thing during the Monday Night Wars. The flame wars would have been equal parts epic and frightening.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> I was thinking 6 PPV's. One every 2 months. That way there's 8 weeks of build per PPV. That still might be a little too much free time though.


I honestly think they should go for 12. WWE has already normalized fans to the idea of a PPV every month. Now I get they charge $50, but if they could go B/R exclusive for the other 8 and use the In Your House model of doing cheaper PPVs for the PPVs that aren't their big 4 I think that would work for them. While clearly the TV specials are supposed to be that go between, I think the fact they're free on TV gives them the leeway to go "ahh it's just TV we get paid the same whether the show is built well or not". But if they know each month they're asking fans to pay for a premium show they have more motivation to put on a premium effort.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> I like following certain things when it comes to ratings and viewership and joke about it here and there.
> 
> But my God, reading this through this thread and social media....we're talking about shows doing between 600k-800k most weeks. I mean, at what point does it not sound kind of a pathetic for people to get this heated over it. I thank God that Twitter wasn't a thing during the Monday Night Wars. The flame wars would have been equal parts epic and frightening.


i recon its all in good fun for the most part - maybe 90%

i can’t imagine anybody, in this thread included, really truly cares over and above some very short-lived ‘bragging rights’ - like your sports team winning


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I honestly think they should go for 12. WWE has already normalized fans to the idea of a PPV every month. Now I get they charge $50, but if they could go B/R exclusive for the other 8 and use the In Your House model of doing cheaper PPVs for the PPVs that aren't their big 4 I think that would work for them. While clearly the TV specials are supposed to be that go between, I think the fact they're free on TV gives them the leeway to go "ahh it's just TV we get paid the same whether the show is built well or not". But if they know each month they're asking fans to pay for a premium show they have more motivation to put on a premium effort.


Yeah true, if they were to do it monthly though, they'd have to come down on those PPV prices pretty significantly, like $20-$25, which devalues the big show feel that the big 4 have. If they do 6 PPV's they can still go hard for 8 weeks at a time between PPV's, even though it may still prove a little difficult. 12 may be a little oversaturating. It's kind of a double-edged sword though because having the extra free time does definitely mean less effort.



TD Stinger said:


> I like following certain things when it comes to ratings and viewership and joke about it here and there.
> 
> But my God, reading this through this thread and social media....we're talking about shows doing between 600k-800k most weeks. I mean, at what point does it not sound kind of a pathetic for people to get this heated over it. I thank God that Twitter wasn't a thing during the Monday Night Wars. The flame wars would have been equal parts epic and frightening.


I wouldn't say anyone is really getting heated in here, but it could be completely different on social media.


----------



## chronoxiong

NXT wins the week again even though Keith Lee's Title win was spoiled. This proves that spoilers doesn't matter all the time. Mick Foley's first ever WWE Title win didn't.


----------



## TD Stinger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i recon its all in good fun for the most part - maybe 90%
> 
> i can’t imagine anybody, in this thread included, really truly cares over and above some very short-lived ‘bragging rights’ - like your sports team winning


I mean, 5 pages of posts full of mocking GIFs and people wishing AEW would lose to give them a "wake up call" does not give me that impression. And the shit you see on Social Media....damn.

If they don't "truly care", they do a bad job of not showing it.


----------



## rbl85

chronoxiong said:


> NXT wins the week again even though Keith Lee's Title win was spoiled. This proves that spoilers doesn't matter all the time. Mick Foley's first ever WWE Title win didn't.


All the AEW show was spoiled


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if it jumps way up for next week. Mox vs Cage, FTR vs Lucha Bros, all on another themed show. Stacked card, I can't wait.


Same breh!


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this should get people foaming at the mouth - they know NXT can’t catch them easily on Demo
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200


Huge yikes. 

Imagine Vince posting this right in the middle of the 81 week losing streak against Nitro.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> I honestly think they should go for 12. WWE has already normalized fans to the idea of a PPV every month. Now I get they charge $50, but if they could go B/R exclusive for the other 8 and use the In Your House model of doing cheaper PPVs for the PPVs that aren't their big 4 I think that would work for them. While clearly the TV specials are supposed to be that go between, I think the fact they're free on TV gives them the leeway to go "ahh it's just TV we get paid the same whether the show is built well or not". But if they know each month they're asking fans to pay for a premium show they have more motivation to put on a premium effort.


Aew would've weighed up all this - came to conclusion less, bigger ppv better


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Next week UFC runs a fight night, so it will be difficult.


Well i'm going to talk to the bald guy directing that and they're going to change the date.....XD


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> average = mean. you know. you add the numbers and you divide by the total.
> 
> not just last week.


Normally you would take the mean from a relevant data sample. 



optikk sucks said:


> y'all telling me that the stacked NXT card barely took any eyes away from aew.
> 
> against OC and Jericho and the other garbage which a lot of the whiners complained about and discussed how AEW were flopping?????
> 
> LMAO. Eat your words im dying here


This is embarrassing. I mean, I’m speaking generally here, but usually when people go overboard on the memes, it’s because they’re being really active on the covering up.

AEW fans are actually bragging about losing in viewership, the tides being turned and NXT not slaughtering them by too much. This is a promotion that was beating NXT decisively enough that people _mocked_ me for suggesting this would happen. Keep all that in mind as you hear the excuses, caveats and apologies.

What I thought the ratings would be: 800k to 700k

What they deserved to be: 850k to 650k

AEW fans are STILL willing this thing forward, and the trained seals clapping along are going to tell them they’re on the right path just long enough for the bottom to fall out.

This is a much smaller version of telling WCW they were doing alright after the Fingerpoke of Doom, just because the fall needed the Hogan/Flair double-turn to really piss people off.

Next week, NXT should just do a sensible show. Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox for the Women’s Title. If you want to give Heath Slater a job, put him in a tournament for the vacant NA Title. Keep building your acts. Sensible booking overtook AEW — no need to worry about them beating Cage early and leaning on a champ most agree has been booked fairly terribly.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah true, if they were to do it monthly though, they'd have to come down on those PPV prices pretty significantly, like $20-$25, which devalues the big show feel that the big 4 have. If they do 6 PPV's they can still go hard for 8 weeks at a time between PPV's, even though it may still prove a little difficult. 12 may be a little oversaturating. It's kind of a double-edged sword though because having the extra free time does definitely mean less effort.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say anyone is really getting heated in here, but it could be completely different on social media.


to be honest, they fill up the time with the wrong things. i dont want to watch filler or predictable. If you have to do predictable matches, attach a gimmick. The Janella/archer match could've been a deathmatch. PNP/PVP had virtually no interaction whatsoever. Why didn't they try to build that match? Sit down interview, brawl, ANYTHING.

For example, they could've had a match to decide the contender for the TNT title at FFTF - Dustin vs Shawn Spears. There is history there and that match is unpredictable without being PPV-worthy. The build could've centred around their histories/matches with Cody previously. Neither guy won. This is their chance now. Dustin is also the brother and Spears is an ex-best friend. The title match would've been predictable, but again, a gimmick could work. Just something to make the match interesting. A ladder match, for example.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah true, if they were to do it monthly though, they'd have to come down on those PPV prices pretty significantly, like $20-$25, which devalues the big show feel that the big 4 have. If they do 6 PPV's they can still go hard for 8 weeks at a time between PPV's, even though it may still prove a little difficult. 12 may be a little oversaturating. It's kind of a double-edged sword though because having the extra free time does definitely mean less effort.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say anyone is really getting heated in here, but it could be completely different on social media.


The only reason I'm saying 12 vs 6 is because they don't do the WWE thing were folk heading to a PPV match will typically still have some sort of match against each other on free TV. While obviously modern day WWE over does it with folk wrestling each other damn near weekly lol. I think 8 weeks of build with no match interaction might be a tad much in the modern day. If they were more open to running the PPV matches on TV with DQs, countouts, and dirty finishes I think it could work better.



Pippen94 said:


> Aew would've weighed up all this - came to conclusion less, bigger ppv better


I'm sure they did, but we're talking about whether all that time between PPVs makes them slack off a bit. I have 2 questions for you I want you to answer as a fan. 

1. Do you think AEW was putting their best foot forward as in story telling and feuds coming out of Full Gear or coming out of DoN 2?

2. Do you think they'd have to increase their effort if they had more PPVs to sell?


----------



## rbl85

The thing is doing 12 PPV is not really compatible with long terms booking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> I mean, 5 pages of posts full of mocking GIFs and people wishing AEW would lose to give them a "wake up call" does not give me that impression. And the shit you see on Social Media....damn.
> 
> If they don't "truly care", they do a bad job of not showing it.


...... fair play 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> The thing is doing 12 PPV is not really compatible with long terms booking.


Yes it is lol. WWE and WCW made it work. You don't need months between big shows to tell good stories. You just need good writing and storytelling. Hell you don't need PPVs at all to tell good stories. But because they seem to be lollygagging during the first 6 weeks of the 12 weeks between PPVs. Maybe they should just add a few more so they keep motivation and momentum going. Right now it seems like they ramp up going into the PPV, have a good show that people love. Then they just sort of go on creative vacation until it's time to ramp up because they know they have to ask for $50 in a few weeks.


----------



## taker1986

Gotta love Jericho. He knows how to wind up the WWE fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TK ranting today 

somebody must’ve pissed him off


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281343196107350016


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK ranting today
> 
> somebody must’ve pissed him off
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281343196107350016


he should really avoid having these conversations with people i think. comes off a bit whiney.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Big yikes. 

Tony Khan has officially entered clown status.


----------



## zkorejo

optikk sucks said:


> he should really avoid having these conversations with people i think. comes off a bit whiney.


Exactly! He doesnt need to engage in twitter wars but I guess he enjoys it.


----------



## shadow_spinner

If AEW wants to be the "cool wrestling show" then STFU about ratings and business. Jericho could pass it off as him being in character (still lame). Tony Khan, no just no.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK ranting today
> 
> somebody must’ve pissed him off
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281343196107350016


This is just sad and embarrassing. It's obvious Tony is just an online mark himself, only difference is he was born into money. Probably why those idiots fans online trolling him has him pounding on the keyboard in anger.


----------



## Swan-San

Tony is a joke lol


----------



## Hephaesteus

yo tony stfu, you a businessman arguing with mouthbreatehers on twitter. Why do you care what they think?


----------



## Not Lying

Man there is no doubt Tony is gona be a character one day on AEW.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I dont understand the raiting system ..how is AEW 7th with less views ?? just curious . As long as TNT is happy with the numbers the show will be fine and seeing what they are working with they seem to be doing ok plus people stream too


----------



## Ozell Gray

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281348457417060353


----------



## rbl85

Botchy SinCara said:


> I dont understand the raiting system ..how is AEW 7th with less views ?? just curious . As long as TNT is happy with the numbers the show will be fine and seeing what they are working with they seem to be doing ok plus people stream too


Because it's the 18-49 demo who define the money that the advertisers are making with the show.


----------



## Pippen94

Botchy SinCara said:


> I dont understand the raiting system ..how is AEW 7th with less views ?? just curious . As long as TNT is happy with the numbers the show will be fine and seeing what they are working with they seem to be doing ok plus people stream too


Cause nxt audience really old


----------



## 304418

optikk sucks said:


> ye
> except all of AEW was spoiled
> and Moxley/Cage was postponed.


1. Its clear which spoiled show was more appealing for viewers to watch.

2. Moxley/Cage goes against UFC Fight Night next week. Good luck beating them, since UFC has already beaten both NXT and AEW on Wednesday nights before.



> Advertisers and AEW head honchos are happy with AEW's rating. That's the only people who matter when it comes to being happy about ratings.


I sure they would prefer more viewers though and not to lose out to Guy Fieri.



Pippen94 said:


> Won the much desired over 50 demo


Considering that tv is a medium that trends towards 50+, yeah, it matters.

AEW not appealing to the older demographics is both good and bad in its own way.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Because it's the 18-49 demo who define the money that the advertisers are making with the show.


How much more money do you think advertizers are paying for .09?


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> How much more money do you think advertizers are paying for .09?


More likely to advertise with aew because it always ranks higher


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> to be honest, they fill up the time with the wrong things. i dont want to watch filler or predictable. If you have to do predictable matches, attach a gimmick. The Janella/archer match could've been a deathmatch. PNP/PVP had virtually no interaction whatsoever. Why didn't they try to build that match? Sit down interview, brawl, ANYTHING.
> 
> For example, they could've had a match to decide the contender for the TNT title at FFTF - Dustin vs Shawn Spears. There is history there and that match is unpredictable without being PPV-worthy. The build could've centred around their histories/matches with Cody previously. Neither guy won. This is their chance now. Dustin is also the brother and Spears is an ex-best friend. The title match would've been predictable, but again, a gimmick could work. Just something to make the match interesting. A ladder match, for example.


Yeah they could be doing more during the filler periods for sure, they kind of take a chill break in between PPV’s lol, even pre-Covid it was like that. A gimmick match between Janela and Archer would have been cool.




RapShepard said:


> The only reason I'm saying 12 vs 6 is because they don't do the WWE thing were folk heading to a PPV match will typically still have some sort of match against each other on free TV. While obviously modern day WWE over does it with folk wrestling each other damn near weekly lol. I think 8 weeks of build with no match interaction might be a tad much in the modern day. If they were more open to running the PPV matches on TV with DQs, countouts, and dirty finishes I think it could work better.


Not doing the PPV match or a variation of it on TV prior to the PPV is definitely a key point lol.


----------



## Pippen94

Verbatim17 said:


> 1. Its clear which spoiled show was more appealing for viewers to watch.
> 
> 2. Moxley/Cage goes against UFC Fight Night next week. Good luck beating them, since UFC has already beaten both NXT and AEW on Wednesday nights before.
> 
> 
> 
> I sure they would prefer more viewers though and not to lose out to Guy Fieri.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that tv is a medium that trends towards 50+, yeah, it matters.
> 
> AEW not appealing to the older demographics is both good and bad in its own way.


Over 50's brand loyal - probably why they stick with wwe product


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Verbatim17 said:


> 1. Its clear which spoiled show was more appealing for viewers to watch.
> 
> 2. Moxley/Cage goes against UFC Fight Night next week. Good luck beating them, since UFC has already beaten both NXT and AEW on Wednesday nights before.
> 
> 
> 
> I sure they would prefer more viewers though and not to lose out to Guy Fieri.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that tv is a medium that trends towards 50+, yeah, it matters.
> 
> AEW not appealing to the older demographics is both good and bad in its own way.


Normal TV and cable is dying because less young people are watching it. That is why everything is wgeared towards the younger demo. The younger demo are the people who are more likely to be swayed by advertisements. They are the ones who make the networks big bucks. That’s why WWE is an attractive investment for Fox and USA. That’s why TNT are happy with AEW. Ask someone who’s actually in the game aka prosper.

your 1st point is very subjective and both shows lost the same amount of viewers from last week. so 1match being spoiled vs the whole show being spoiled and they lose the same number of viewers? To me it suggests like AEW was the must watch show.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> More likely to advertise with aew because it always ranks higher


NXT had their show sponsored by Mountain Dew.

Who sponsored Fyter Fest? Which top products are being featured during Dynamite, that isn't on NXT?


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> NXT had their show sponsored by Mountain Dew.
> 
> Who sponsored Fyter Fest? Which top products are being featured during Dynamite, that isn't on NXT?


Nxt sponsored by depends diapers


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Nxt sponsored by depends diapers


You should by some and send them to Tony Khan.


----------



## taker1986

It's great that AEW are winning with the younger audience. 

Here's a genuine question I want to ask people. How do you think AEW should try and get more of the older viewers to watch?, how can AEW sway more older people because that's their big letdown..


----------



## shadow_spinner

I'm curious as to why NXT is winning the last 3 weeks. Usually with big shows like this AEW usually wins but suddenly NXT has won 3 weeks in a row. What caused the change in overall viewership? AEW was comfortably ahead earlier this year. Was it really COVID that changed things?


----------



## Whoanma

Some here are saying AEW won last night, others are saying NXT won...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> It's great that AEW are winning with the younger audience.
> 
> Here's a genuine question I want to ask people. How do you think AEW should try and get more of the older viewers to watch?, how can AEW sway more older people because that's their big letdown..


I honestly think rather than attracting the older population, they need to attract the younger female population. That’s when they will really start killing it. And that’s a really tough population to crack.


----------



## RapShepard

taker1986 said:


> It's great that AEW are winning with the younger audience.
> 
> Here's a genuine question I want to ask people. How do you think AEW should try and get more of the older viewers to watch?, how can AEW sway more older people because that's their big letdown..


While I think it's desperate when they do it. I think they'd have to lean heavier on nostalgia. Maybe have some ads advertising it as wrestling with its roots set in the old school. Openly play up Cody and Dustin being Dusty's son in advertising. Play more into it following in the tradition of good southern wrestling on a Turner station. Cut down some of the comedy, lean more into that old school idea of wrestling being a man's man thing.


----------



## Prosper

taker1986 said:


> It's great that AEW are winning with the younger audience.
> 
> Here's a genuine question I want to ask people. How do you think AEW should try and get more of the older viewers to watch?, how can AEW sway more older people because that's their big letdown..


The older 50+ audience will be harder to attract because they grew up knowing only WWE and it’s 95% likely that they haven’t even heard of AEW. The younger audience under 50 on the other hand are in touch with the times. I would say put more ad spend into more general sports outlets and websites or advertise on platforms that typically have older audiences with general sports interests. Even then it won’t do much good because older folk are not really paying attention to ads in comparison to the younger folk.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Pippen94 said:


> Cause nxt audience really old


Again, I have explained in a prior post. The numbers in the demo are only showing a few thousand viewer difference. Very negligible and definitely not near enough to to make much of a difference when comparing viewers.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> I honestly think rather than attracting the older population, they need to attract the younger female population. That’s when they will really start killing it. And that’s a really tough population to crack.


I wonder if the puppy bowl helped at all with the younger females or caused a temporary spike.


----------



## NathanMayberry

shadow_spinner said:


> I'm curious as to why NXT is winning the last 3 weeks. Usually with big shows like this AEW usually wins but suddenly NXT has won 3 weeks in a row. What caused the change in overall viewership? AEW was comfortably ahead earlier this year. Was it really COVID that changed things?


Trying to pass of a clown like Orange Cassidy as someone who should be main eventing a wrestling show.


----------



## imthegame19

Hephaesteus said:


> yo tony stfu, you a businessman arguing with mouthbreatehers on twitter. Why do you care what they think?


I don't take it as arguing with anyone. I think that's you and others trying to make big deal out of nothing. Hes explaining and educating people how the business works of ratings work in 2020. When people are talking about viewership and trying to act like AEW is struggling. When they infact really won and finished where TNT wants them to. Which is in the top 10 in 18-49.



Bloody Warpath said:


> Again, I have explained in a prior post. The numbers in the demo are only showing a few thousand viewer difference. Very negligible and definitely not near enough to to make much of a difference when comparing viewers.


It's enough to make difference from networks and advertisers. One show is ranked 7th and the other show is ranked 24th. That makes big difference. Since if you had a product to promote. Would you want it on top 10 ranked in 18-49. Or one that's usually 25-50 in 18-49?


----------



## rbl85

Every show


Bloody Warpath said:


> Again, I have explained in a prior post. The numbers in the demo are only showing a few thousand viewer difference. Very negligible and definitely not near enough to to make much of a difference when comparing viewers.


The difference in viewership is only because of the 50+demo.


----------



## 304418

Pippen94 said:


> Over 50's brand loyal - probably why they stick with wwe product


They also probably see nothing appealing about AEW i.e. its too new school for them.



optikk sucks said:


> Normal TV and cable is dying because less young people are watching it. That is why everything is wgeared towards the younger demo. The younger demo are the people who are more likely to be swayed by advertisements. They are the ones who make the networks big bucks. That’s why WWE is an attractive investment for Fox and USA. That’s why TNT are happy with AEW. Ask someone who’s actually in the game aka prosper.
> 
> your 1st point is very subjective and both shows lost the same amount of viewers from last week. so 1match being spoiled vs the whole show being spoiled and they lose the same number of viewers? To me it suggests like AEW was the must watch show.


Yes, that why the tv networks want sports. And WWE. And AEW. Since the younger generation is cutting the cord and relying more on social media.

But if tv ratings is the sole metric that matters, then the 50+ demo does still matter in some sense.

The match spoiled was the match that NXT treating at the major draw for watching. People still tuned in.


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> I don't take it as arguing with anyone. I think that's you and others trying to make big deal out of nothing. Hes explaining and educating people how the business works of ratings work in 2020. When people are talking about viewership and trying to act like AEW is struggling. When they infact really won and finished where TNT wants them to. Which is in the top 10 in 18-49.


What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall live viewership as well. If Tony REALLY wanted to get savage, he would bring that up lol, but it’s better that he just stops.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> Yes, that why the tv networks want sports. And WWE. And AEW. Since the younger generation is cutting the cord and relying more on social media.
> 
> But if tv ratings is the sole metric that matters, then the 50+ demo does still matter in some sense.
> 
> The match spoiled was the match that NXT treating at the major draw for watching. People still tuned in.


What i'm going to say is terrible but the 50+ demo is like a product with a state close to the expiration date.

There is no future for this demo.



prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall viewership as well.


People in the US watch AEW on B/R live ?


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> People in the US watch AEW on B/R live ?


Yeah they made the deal last year.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall viewership as well.


So you're comparing BR viewers and adding that to viewership but not the Network viewers?

There's been a lot of coping here today winners don't make this many excuses.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah they made the deal last year.


I always thought it was only for the PPV XD


----------



## Garty

I don't know whether this has been posted prior, but this was noted in today's ratings report, by PWInsider's Dave Scherer:

_For the second week in a row, NXT won the viewership battle while AEW won the coveted 18-49 demographic. We can tell you sources at WarnerMedia are thrilled with AEW's continued success in the demos._

So, to everyone that doubted and  on Dave Meltzer about this exact same acknowledgment by WarnerMedia over many, many months, you now have a verified second opinion. Although I'm 100% certain, some of you will still not accept this as a fact. No, it doesn't need a memo, or a press release, or the tried and true "opinion" that, "they must be really happy losing 50% of their audience then... LOL   " to prove anything to you that's said internally.


----------



## Pippen94

Bloody Warpath said:


> Again, I have explained in a prior post. The numbers in the demo are only showing a few thousand viewer difference. Very negligible and definitely not near enough to to make much of a difference when comparing viewers.


If it was as precarious as you suggest why does aew always win demos?


----------



## Whoanma

prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. *So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall viewership as well.*


I know a group of people in here that ain’t gonna like that.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> So you're comparing BR viewers and adding that to viewership but not the Network viewers?
> 
> There's been a lot of coping here today winners don't make this many excuses.


I would but NXT doesn’t stream live on the network does it? Don’t they just post the replay after? Not excuses, just facts.




rbl85 said:


> I always thought it was only for the PPV XD


No they stream every Dynamite lol. The ratings war is based on cable advertising and demos from the network‘s POV so no one really brings it up.


----------



## Hephaesteus

imthegame19 said:


> I don't take it as arguing with anyone. I think that's you and others trying to make big deal out of nothing. Hes explaining and educating people how the business works of ratings work in 2020. When people are talking about viewership and trying to act like AEW is struggling. When they infact really won and finished where TNT wants them to. Which is in the top 10 in 18-49.


Im not making a big deal out of anything. How many wwe execs do you see trying to justify ratings to the "uneducated?" Methinks he doth protest too much.


----------



## Whoanma

prosperwithdeen said:


> I would but NXT doesn’t stream live on the network does it? Don’t they just post the replay after? Not excuses, just facts.


No, it doesn’t, and that’s why I can’t watch NXT on Wednesdays anymore. I wouldn’t anyways, HHH, Vince and co. are to be blamed for that.


----------



## Hephaesteus

prosperwithdeen said:


> I would but NXT doesn’t stream live on the network does it? Don’t they just post the replay after? Not excuses, just facts.


You act as if people dont stream shows illegally. Just cuz B/r makes it legal for AEW changes nothing other than making it easier to count AEW's streaming audience


----------



## Prosper

Hephaesteus said:


> You act as if people dont stream shows illegally. Just cuz B/r makes it legal for AEW changes nothing other than making it easier to count AEW's streaming audience


You’re telling ME that? Lmao you’re preaching to the quoir brother. Check out my extended post on page 307 if you feel like reading it.


----------



## rbl85

The illegal stream are probably eating a good part of the 18-49 demo for every shows.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

imthegame19 said:


> It's enough to make difference from networks and advertisers. One show is ranked 7th and the other show is ranked 24th. That makes big difference. Since if you had a product to promote. Would you want it on top 10 ranked in 18-49. Or one that's usually 25-50 in 18-49?


I understand that, but you look at the number and not the ranking. It is not the same as a college football ranking. All shows within the Top 25 are fairly close to one another. With the shows being under 0.30 there honestly is not much separation that would make one show be paid more than another. If NXT would have been 0.01 lower from last week, then they would have been 19. Only difference would be that the WWE brand has had a footsteps present with advertisers for decades. 

Now if one show or the other ever gets to a point to where there demos would be say 0.40 to 0.18 on a consistent basis then we could say that it would make a noticeable difference with regards to ad revenue.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> No they stream every Dynamite lol. The ratings war is based on cable advertising and demos from the network‘s POV so no one really brings it up.


Why some people watch it on B/R and not TNT ?


----------



## Hephaesteus

rbl85 said:


> Why some people watch it on B/R and not TNT ?


B/r's free, tnt isnt/


----------



## rbl85

Hephaesteus said:


> B/r's free, tnt isnt/


B/R is free ?

Didn't know that, thanks.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Why some people watch it on B/R and not TNT ?


No cable box. Cable is like $100 a month and all of the quality programming outside of sports are on premium networks, Netflix, or online. It’s also more convenient. I’m not 100% sure but I think they stream through the commercial break with no announce team. I have to look into that.


----------



## 304418

prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall live viewership as well. If Tony REALLY wanted to get savage, he would bring that up lol, but it’s better that he just stops.


If total viewership for AEW is so good once B/R Live is factored in, they why is there such a reliance on tv ratings alone? Its clear that AEW is leaving NXT in the dust and the game in general has changed.



rbl85 said:


> What i'm going to say is terrible but the 50+ demo is like a product with a state close to the expiration date.
> 
> There is no future for this demo.


And NXT is lagging in the demo that is supposed to matter 18-49.

They're in trouble.


----------



## Prosper

Verbatim17 said:


> If total viewership for AEW is so good once B/R Live is factored in, they why is there such a reliance on tv ratings alone? Its clear that AEW is leaving NXT in the dust and the game in general has changed.


They don’t only rely on TV, the BR network has advertising too and the monthly pass is $10/month for Dynamite and all of their other content. That’s all revenue for the network.


----------



## rbl85

Sad that we don't have the numbers for Fite Tv

Other than that i will post the quarters tomorrow (afternoon) in the US


----------



## Klitschko

Honestly, I think AEW is done beating NXT for a while. They keep delaying their big storylines and are hoping for things to get back to normal, but this covid situation will probably go until the end of the year easilly. They really need to start putting on the best possible show or they will die fast. If they keep this up I dont see them getting 500k at the end of this year.


----------



## rbl85

Klitschko said:


> Honestly, *I think AEW is done beating NXT for a while*. They keep delaying their big storylines and are hoping for things to get back to normal, but this covid situation will probably go until the end of the year easilly. They really need to start putting on the best possible show or they will die fast. If they keep this up I dont see them getting 500k at the end of this year.


Next week is kind of a while


----------



## Klitschko

rbl85 said:


> Next week is kind of a while


Honestly, I would be beyond happy if they crushed NXT but I think they will end up with a similar rating to this week's. And that's coming from someone who is super hyped for Moxley/Cage.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> he should really avoid having these conversations with people i think. comes off a bit whiney.


Everybody needs to vent every now and again

not like he does it twice a week

PS> TK gets into it with Fulham / Jags fans and detractors every week - so, shouldn’t be shocking to anybody. We are in the age of the ‘Social’ CEO



Garty said:


> I don't know whether this has been posted prior, but this was noted in today's ratings report, by PWInsider's Dave Scherer:
> 
> _For the second week in a row, NXT won the viewership battle while AEW won the coveted 18-49 demographic. We can tell you sources at WarnerMedia are thrilled with AEW's continued success in the demos._
> 
> So, to everyone that doubted and  on Dave Meltzer about this exact same acknowledgment by WarnerMedia over many, many months, you now have a verified second opinion. Although I'm 100% certain, some of you will still not accept this as a fact. No, it doesn't need a memo, or a press release, or the tried and true "opinion" that, "they must be really happy losing 50% of their audience then... LOL   " to prove anything to you that's said internally.


Well, it is easy to see they’re happy

if they weren’t - it would be moved or cancelled

TV execs are hardly saints keeping this on air for charity


----------



## La Parka

Imagine being a wrestler or owner of a company arguing over which company gets to come 4th place under TV shows like Real House Wives of Beverly hills and Guys Grocery games.

The Wednesday night war is the equivalent of watching the Lions play the Bengals.


----------



## Garty

As good as I thought OC v Jericho was, that match would have been a killer with a crowd watching. The near falls towards the end of the match would have had people losing their  I really thought that OC would win and have Jericho exit for a while. Nope.

As far as fans coming back and as much as Vince has been pushing to be the first wrestling company to do so... well, if you exclude the Japanese promotions that is. I think AEW has a far better chance at having a crowd (first or whenever, it doesn't matter who's first, except Vince), seeing they have the open, outside venue to do so. Not thousands, but a few 100+ clusters of people, seated and separated throughout the venue. WWE has been sending out feelers to arenas and outdoor venues for a few weeks now, if not sooner, only to be told it's not possible at this time or the near future. WWE are really at the mercy of finding any venue that will host them. They may be able to go overseas, but since the number of CV-19 cases have exploded in the US, there are many countries that have now imposed a travel-ban on all flights, based out of the US. They will always have Saudi Arabia to fall back on, but at the same time, lose some of the talent who refuse to work the Saudi shows, or those who have sat out, ill or by choice because of CV-19.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Honestly, I would be beyond happy if they crushed NXT but I think they will end up with a similar rating to this week's. And that's coming from someone who is super hyped for Moxley/Cage.


I think aew will take total viewers next week



La Parka said:


> Imagine being a wrestler or owner of a company arguing over which company gets to come 4th place under TV shows like Real House Wives of Beverly hills and Guys Grocery games.
> 
> The Wednesday night war is the equivalent of watching the Lions play the Bengals.


Another wwe tragic posting in aew section - must be worried


----------



## Mike E

Its good to see another successful week for AEW, finishing number 7 in the top 150 is pretty strong. Next weeks show looks like its going to be pretty good so hopefully we will see some gains in viewership. I'm pretty sure both AEW and TNT are pretty happy with another top 10 finish.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Imagine being a wrestler or owner of a company arguing over which company gets to come 4th place under TV shows like Real House Wives of Beverly hills and Guys Grocery games.
> 
> The Wednesday night war is the equivalent of *watching the Lions play the Bengals.*


Is that like a super zoo fight reality show?


----------



## P Thriller

AEW can talk demo all they want but the fact is their numbers are nothing to be celebrating. They have a ton of advantages over NXT, they should be killing them especially with NXT not putting out their best product right now. NXT has to deal with a CEO that poaches their top talent on a whim. AEW is brand new, had all kinds of fresh characters and fresh matchups to take advantage of. They have plenty of money at their disposal. Yet they still cant separate from the pack and now they are starting to lose. I personally like both shows but I'm getting a little annoyed with how insecure AEW is acting every time they lose a week.


----------



## 304418

prosperwithdeen said:


> They don’t only rely on TV, the BR network has advertising too and the monthly pass is $10/month for Dynamite and all of their other content. That’s all revenue for the network.


I meant in term of reporting. Why are only tv ratings reported if they are also doing well on B/R Live? It helps to have the full picture.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Verbatim17 said:


> I meant in term of reporting. Why are only tv ratings reported if they are also doing well on B/R Live? It helps to have the full picture.


Only advertisers get the real picture - in segments

its how they sell you on purchasing ads

look how the numbers differ in this article from the info on the normal ratings of MTV CHALLENGE (the n 1 spot show)

there is a jump from key demo 0.58 to 1.16

and a jump from 900k viewers to 1.5m

and That is just with ‘Live +3’ - live + DVR within 3 hours of the broadcast

then there’s live +24 / online / pass-on rates / reruns / household numbers and so on and so on


----------



## the_hound

that's now 4 aew guys including khan talking about ratings and demos, seriously


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall live viewership as well. If Tony REALLY wanted to get savage, he would bring that up lol, but it’s better that he just stops.


Yeah I don't pay for cable and I've watched every single Dynamite live. I just use my parents at&t log in and sign into app to watch it live. I have friend who uses TNT app to stream it live every week. Only reason I use At&t app is cuz shows picture and picture. While on TNT app they don't always show picture and picture. There's no doubt in my mind that near 2 million people are watching Dynamite in US alone. When you consider dvr, ondemand, all different ways to stream it legal and illegal etc.


----------



## El Hammerstone

the_hound said:


> that's now 4 aew guys including khan talking about ratings and demos, seriously




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281365780332937217
Make that 5


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Out of interest sake

these are the shows that charted in the top 50 for TNT last week

Dynamite (715k viewers, 0.29 demo)
Snowpiercer (1.14 million viewers, 0.31 demo)
NBA news show (217k viewers, 0.07 demo)

Thats it.... thats the list


----------



## imthegame19

Hephaesteus said:


> Im not making a big deal out of anything. How many wwe execs do you see trying to justify ratings to the "uneducated?" Methinks he doth protest too much.


That's terrible example. WWE is bulletproof right now. It doesn't matter what people think or say about them. Keep in mind they have quarterly reports with Stockholders to explain these things. So they don't need to do it on twitter.


AEW brand new company and when NXT does more viewership 3 weeks in a row. Negative narrviate gets spread that the company is struggling. Or gonna be next TNA and get tv deal cancelled etc. When that narrviate is false. If people think company doing poorly. They are less likely to give it a shot or second shot. There's nothing wrong to educate people and explain they are doing very well. 


Plus it doesn't matter what WWE does or doesn't do. Tony Khan is owner of successful wrestling company. He can educate and explain rating details on Twitter all he wants. 


You are kidding yourself if you don't think WWF or WCW execs would be tweeting during heated Monday Night Wars. With them both trying to grow their audience. WWE making like 500 million a year on tv deals. So they could careless what fans think about their ratings. AEW new company trying to grow. So it's nothing wrong with educating dumb opinionated fans on Twitter.



Klitschko said:


> Honestly, I would be beyond happy if they crushed NXT but I think they will end up with a similar rating to this week's. And that's coming from someone who is super hyped for Moxley/Cage.


Unless NXT puts big match with Sasha/Bayley or Keith Lee in big title defense. I think AEW gonna take viewership and demo next week.

They did a good job building up Cage/Tazz so people will tune in for that match. While Elite in action will interest fans. So will FTR vs Lucha Bros and Cody still defending TNT title. Even if it's against Sonny Kiss and not everyone hates him like they do on here.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well, it is easy to see they’re happy
> 
> if they weren’t - it would be moved or cancelled
> 
> TV execs are hardly saints keeping this on air for charity


Yep and people gotta look at it this way. TNT had AEW under contract for two years with just had revenue split and zero guarantee money. After 3 months they were so happy with 


them. They basically gave them 175 million to get them under contract for two additional years. Along with wanting another hour of tv and 5th year 100 million dollar option.


So while viewership and demo has dropped off for AEW during pandemic. It dropped off for a lot of non news shows. That is why AEW often still in top 10 in 18-49 even with numbers down.


----------



## validreasoning

Showbuzz only includes original programming.



Verbatim17 said:


> If total viewership for AEW is so good once B/R Live is factored in, they why is there such a reliance on tv ratings alone? Its clear that AEW is leaving NXT in the dust and the game in general has changed.


TNT is in 90 million out of 120 million American homes. I can't imagine there is a huge amount watching b/r live on their phones when vast majority have access to broadcast on tv




> And NXT is lagging in the demo that is supposed to matter 18-49.
> 
> They're in trouble.


Both shows are doing ~ 0.2 in 18-49 demo. It's not like AEW is doing full point more.

And demo aren't as black and white as some make out. AEW costs TNT more to air than NXT costs USA. USA get all the advertising revenue, TNT only 50%.

raw and SD beat NBA games on ESPN and TNT 3/4 of the season in 18-49. NBA tv deals are still worth 10-15 times more annually than WWEs though..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

validreasoning said:


> Showbuzz only includes original programming.
> 
> 
> 
> TNT is in 90 million out of 120 million American homes. I can't imagine there is a huge amount watching b/r live on their phones when vast majority have access to broadcast on tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both shows are doing ~ 0.2 in 18-49 demo. It's not like AEW is doing full point more.
> 
> And demo aren't as black and white as some make out. AEW costs TNT more to air than NXT costs USA. USA get all the advertising revenue, TNT only 50%.
> 
> raw and SD beat NBA games on ESPN and TNT 3/4 of the season in 18-49. NBA tv deals are still worth 10-15 times more annually than WWEs though..


the diffs is, USA gave up Suits - a show they own, for the NXT timeslot

Suits was doing 0.32 and NXT is doing 0.19 - 0.20

TNT was doing nothing on a Wednesday / they haven’t ranked in the top50 in years on a wed


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> People in the US watch AEW on B/R live ?





prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah they made the deal last year.


Are you positive on that? I don't see any indications you can watch Dynamite live on B/R Live. Even for their pass they don't mention live Dynamites as a feature. Are you thinking of the TNT app?


----------



## Hephaesteus

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the diffs is, USA gave up Suits - a show they own, for the NXT timeslot
> 
> Suits was doing 0.32 and NXT is doing 0.19 - 0.20
> 
> TNT was doing nothing on a Wednesday / they haven’t ranked in the top50 in years on a wed


suits was leaving regardless, that show was leaking castmembers like crazy at the end. So thats a bit of an unfair thing to say



imthegame19 said:


> That's terrible example. WWE is bulletproof right now. It doesn't matter what people think or say about them. Keep in mind they have quarterly reports with Stockholders to explain these things. So they don't need to do it on twitter.
> 
> 
> AEW brand new company and when NXT does more viewership 3 weeks in a row. Negative narrviate gets spread that the company is struggling. Or gonna be next TNA and get tv deal cancelled etc. When that narrviate is false. If people think company doing poorly. They are less likely to give it a shot or second shot. There's nothing wrong to educate people and explain they are doing very well.
> 
> 
> Plus it doesn't matter what WWE does or doesn't do. Tony Khan is owner of successful wrestling company. He can educate and explain rating details on Twitter all he wants.
> 
> 
> You are kidding yourself if you don't think WWF or WCW execs would be tweeting during heated Monday Night Wars. With them both trying to grow their audience. WWE making like 500 million a year on tv deals. So they could careless what fans think about their ratings. AEW new company trying to grow. So it's nothing wrong with educating dumb opinionated fans on Twitter.


You're right, tony can do what he wants. Still looks stupid as fuck for the owner of a company to justify his show to mouth-breathers on twitter. Not only does it make him look desperate, but hes not gonna convert enough people over to justify anything.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

I feel like the no crowds benefits NXT more since they were in a smaller arena anyways. AEW feels bigger with the crowds. When this covid stuff dies down and the crowds come back AEW will most likely steamroll them


----------



## Pippen94

Hephaesteus said:


> You're right, tony can do what he wants. Still looks stupid as fuck for the owner of a company to justify his show to mouth-breathers on twitter. Not only does it make him look desperate, but hes not gonna convert enough people over to justify anything.


Not really - highlighting his brand is preferred by young ppl. Perpetuates this further - good marketing


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Oh God the fact that people think there's a "war" to begin with. I think ratings pillow fight is probably a more apt term. Neither show has a chance in hell of ever cracking a million viewer average.



Pippen94 said:


> Not really - highlighting his brand is preferred by young ppl. Perpetuates this further - good marketing


It also makes him sound dumb for thinking there's a war to begin with.


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> This is funny, the AEW higher ups are really sensitive about the low viewership that they have to respond to marks on the internet. First Jericho and now Tony Khan. Who are they trying to fool? Imagine Vince or Reigns tweeting nonsense like this.
> 
> Funny thing is, they were smashing NXT by over 200-250k viewers on a regular basis just 3months ago and NXT wasn't even on their radar. The aim was to get to 1m+ viewers regularly. Now the higher ups are content and pumping chest with 700k viewership and winning the demo against NXT. Absolute madness.


But something has happen since then.. What was it? That's right COVID!!!



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It also makes him sound dumb for thinking there's a war to begin with.


You're learning about marketing - war brings attention to brand & is good for business


----------



## Prosper

Verbatim17 said:


> I meant in term of reporting. Why are only tv ratings reported if they are also doing well on B/R Live? It helps to have the full picture.


Yeah it would be helpful but all streaming apps/networks unfortunately don't release that info to the public on a weekly basis. Sometimes you’ll get articles though. It's only for the advertisers and TV execs to see for the most part. 95% of fans don't care about ratings so I'm sure they don't even think it's worth posting like Nielsen. Seems like some of the bigger shows Like Fight for the fallen and fyter fest are reported though as well as PPV buy rates on their network And subscriptions through insider sources like WON, Ringside News, Observer and SESCoops.



imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I don't pay for cable and I've watched every single Dynamite live. I just use my parents at&t log in and sign into app to watch it live. I have friend who uses TNT app to stream it live every week. Only reason I use At&t app is cuz shows picture and picture. While on TNT app they don't always show picture and picture. There's no doubt in my mind that near 2 million people are watching Dynamite in US alone. When you consider dvr, ondemand, all different ways to stream it legal and illegal etc.


They stream on AT&T too? Didn't know that, which means the live audience is even bigger. Yeah the picture and picture is great, I just mute the stream lol. And yeah the overall audience is drastically bigger, I would say both AEW and NXT are doing around 2Mil+ with RAW and SD probably doing 4 or 5Mil+.




RapShepard said:


> Are you positive on that? I don't see any indications you can watch Dynamite live on B/R Live. Even for their pass they don't mention live Dynamites as a feature. Are you thinking of the TNT app?


Here is the page:

Stream All Elite Wrestling live - Official Site - B/R Live


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK ranting today
> 
> somebody must’ve pissed him off
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281343196107350016


Tony got time today lol

The 50+ audience was watching USA just before NXT came on and they ended up falling asleep with the TV on. My dad does it all the time.


----------



## Prosper

LOL Tony trolling some more, I bet he has a huge smile on his face laughing at the comments lol geeks mad 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281384551948967936


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281384554088062981


----------



## NXT Only

Verbatim17 said:


> If total viewership for AEW is so good once B/R Live is factored in, they why is there such a reliance on tv ratings alone? Its clear that AEW is leaving NXT in the dust and the game in general has changed.
> 
> 
> And NXT is lagging in the demo that is supposed to matter 18-49.
> 
> They're in trouble.


Viewership matters because it will help them with their TV deal negotiations which gives the company capital to make things happen. But the ratings only matter in relation to programming they go up against on the specific night.

So AEW is doing 700K+ live, 325k+ live on the B/R app, a few hundred thousand on FITE, on demand and DVR availability matters too. Plus the almighty illegal streams. And if I recall they did 1.4M and then 1.1M Their first two shows before any of these other things were available. So it seems like their audience hasn’t drastically dropped as stated but that it is split on how they watch the show.

interesting, I’d love to see the numbers.


----------



## Cult03

Just out of curiosity, is this the ratings thread or the 'who impressed the sponsors the most this week' thread? AEW had less viewers, therefore they lost.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, is this the ratings thread or the 'who impressed the sponsors the most this week' thread? AEW had less viewers, therefore they lost.


7th comes before 24th.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

These last three weeks has been a microcosm of each Company's Business Philosophy and how that pertains to Ratings

WWE is about the instant gratification and the now therefore Total Viewers is the barometer of success.

AEW is about long term growth and health and therefore 18-34, 18-49, etc. demographics is the barometer of success.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> 7th comes before 24th.


Ok but hear me out. This might be difficult to keep up with but 759000 is more than 715000, right? I know it's a lot of numbers and might be hard for you to work out so I'll give you a clue. The answer starts with a Y and ends in es.



ripcitydisciple said:


> These last three weeks has been a microcosm of each Company's Business Philosophy and how that pertains to Ratings
> 
> WWE is about the instant gratification and the now therefore Total Viewers is the barometer of success.
> 
> AEW is about long term growth and health and therefore 18-34, 18-49, etc. demographics is the barometer of success.


You're entirely right. The company that is losing viewers every week is about long term growth..


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Cult03 said:


> You're entirely right. The company that is losing viewers every week is about long term growth..


Yeah, they are. Thanks for agreeing.


----------



## NXT Only

"Losing viewers" too bad we've debunked that theory.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Lord he came in here Loud and Wrong lmao.

But anyways, Another decent rating. AEW keeps chugging along. You love to see it.


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> "Losing viewers" too bad we've debunked that theory.


It's not a theory all their demo metrics are down from even a month ago. They are in fact losing viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah it would be helpful but all streaming apps/networks unfortunately don't release that info to the public on a weekly basis. Sometimes you’ll get articles though. It's only for the advertisers and TV execs to see for the most part. 95% of fans don't care about ratings so I'm sure they don't even think it's worth posting like Nielsen. The TNT app numbers are also not reported. Seems like some of the bigger shows Like Fight for the fallen and fyter fest are reported though as well as PPV buy rates on their network And subscriptions through insider sources like WON, Ringside News, Observer and SESCoops.
> 
> 
> 
> They stream on AT&T too? Didn't know that, which means the live audience is even bigger. Yeah the picture and picture is great, I just mute the stream lol. And yeah the overall audience is drastically bigger, I would say both AEW and NXT are doing around 2Mil+ with RAW and SD probably doing 4 or 5Mil+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the page:
> 
> Stream All Elite Wrestling live - Official Site - B/R Live


Yeah that page doesn't seem to show the episode of Dynamite from this week though. Is what I'm saying.

So when WWE wrestlers lash out at fans they're showing how sensitive it is, when Tony the boss does it, it's awesome lol. Definitely believe in if fans can dish it they can take it, but holy shit how folk change the narrative.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Ok but hear me out. This might be difficult to keep up with but 759000 is more than 715000, right? I know it's a lot of numbers and might be hard for you to work out so I'll give you a clue. The answer starts with a Y and ends in es.


You're right 759000 is more than 715000 but unless nxt can get young ppl to watch it'll never finish in front of aew


----------



## Ozell Gray

1. When it comes to wrestling the 18-49 demo doesn't bring more ad revenue to the networks since wrestling shows get abysmal ads because advertisers hate wrestling. A wrestling show can get 2 million viewers and a 1.0 rating while another show can get 400,000 viewers and a 0.23 rating, and advertisers will pay more money to put ads on the show thats doing 400,000 viewers and has a 0.23 rating so saying that the demo is what matters when we're talking about wrestling is ignorant. Lets not also forget that the 18-49 demo doesn't mean anything to advertisers when its concerning wrestling because wrestling fans are poor people with little to no income.

2. Networks lose money off of wrestling because of the abysmal ads that it gets. Raw were seeing only 1/10th of the ads that other shows were getting



__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/4jubt6


Heres more proof that networks lose money off of wrestling


The conventional wisdom on pro wrestling has always been that, generally speaking, pro wrestling on television generates significantly less advertising revenue than other programming with a similarly sized audience. The specifics have never been super clear, with estimates ranging from one-half to one-tenth of similarly situated non-wrestling shows, but it was always something of a stumbling block, with pro wrestling’s long-held reputation as a sham sport where promoters conned dullards who thought it was legitimate competition.

Later, on the August 25 edition of his Wrestling Observer Radio podcast (also behind paywall and h/t Twitter), he stressed that the key figures—👉$122.9 million for _Monday Night Raw_ and $72.4 million for _SmackDown Live_—would, in theory, make both shows massive loss leaders if left relatively unchanged. The new contracts for both shows, which start the first week of October, have USA paying WWE $265 million per year for _Raw_ and new home Fox paying $205 million per year for _SmackDown. _So if these figures are legitimate and stayed even remotely flat for 2019-20, that would seem to indicate potential for the shows running at a loss, strictly in terms of rights fees vs. ad revenue👈.











Report Casts WWE TV Deals As Loss Leaders, Misses Additional Value They Bring


The conventional wisdom on pro wrestling has always been that, generally speaking, pro wrestling on television generates significantly less advertising revenue than other programming with a similarly sized audience.




www.forbes.com







So even USA Network and Fox are losing money on Raw and Smackdown because advertisers pay less for wrestling shows than they do for other shows that does less viewers and ratings. So TNT themselves are losing money off of Dynamite because again advertisers will pay less to put an ad on Dynamite than they will to put one on another TNT show. So this talk of "well the 18-49 that Dynamite does well in will bring better ads for TNT" needs to stop because thats not true. TNT makes more money off the other shows on their network than they ever will off of Dynamite. 

3. NXT makes USA Network more money off of ads than Dynamite does, because NXT is tv-pg while Dynamite is tv-14 which is the reason WWE went to tv-pg

_The Hollywood Reporter’s_ Marisa Guthrie in May 2018. “And wrestling is family friendly. If you have wrestling you can find cash. I think it’s a big win for Fox; it’s a great trade-off.” A little over a month later, in a _Sports Business Journal_ feature that went in-depth on WWE and the UFC’s negotiations for 2019 contracts, John Ourand wrote that “[h]istorically, WWE’s rights fees had been depressed as ad buyers shied away from the series. In the current media environment prioritizing live sports, however, advertisers now covet WWE’s large and engaged fan base.”

So NXT makes USA Network more money because its tv-pg (family friendly) than Dynamite soes for TNT because its tv-14.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Pippen94 said:


> You're right 759000 is more than 715000 but unless nxt can get young ppl to watch it'll never finish in front of aew


Once Bingo Nights across the U.S. are able to start back up again NXT's +50 demographic will go down too as a result.


----------



## NXT Only

NathanMayberry said:


> It's not a theory all their demo metrics are down from even a month ago. They are in fact losing viewers.


Just live TV, they're viewership accounting all possible ways to view their product is still above 1M total each week. Theory debunked.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> 1. When it comes to wrestling the 18-49 demo doesn't bring more ad revenue to the networks since wrestling shows get abysmal ads because advertisers hate wrestling. A wrestling show can get 2 million viewers and a 1.0 rating while another show can get 400,000 viewers and a 0.23 rating, and advertisers will pay more money to put ads on the show thats doing 400,000 viewers and has a 0.23 rating so saying that the demo is what matters when we're talking about wrestling is ignorant. Lets not also forget that the 18-49 demo doesn't mean anything to advertisers when its concerning wrestling because wrestling fans are poor people with little to no income.
> 
> 2. Networks lose money off of wrestling because of the abysmal ads that it gets. Raw were seeing only 1/10th of the ads that other shows were getting
> 
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/4jubt6
> 
> 
> Heres more proof that networks lose money off of wrestling
> 
> 
> The conventional wisdom on pro wrestling has always been that, generally speaking, pro wrestling on television generates significantly less advertising revenue than other programming with a similarly sized audience. The specifics have never been super clear, with estimates ranging from one-half to one-tenth of similarly situated non-wrestling shows, but it was always something of a stumbling block, with pro wrestling’s long-held reputation as a sham sport where promoters conned dullards who thought it was legitimate competition.
> 
> Later, on the August 25 edition of his Wrestling Observer Radio podcast (also behind paywall and h/t Twitter), he stressed that the key figures—👉$122.9 million for _Monday Night Raw_ and $72.4 million for _SmackDown Live_—would, in theory, make both shows massive loss leaders if left relatively unchanged. The new contracts for both shows, which start the first week of October, have USA paying WWE $265 million per year for _Raw_ and new home Fox paying $205 million per year for _SmackDown. _So if these figures are legitimate and stayed even remotely flat for 2019-20, that would seem to indicate potential for the shows running at a loss, strictly in terms of rights fees vs. ad revenue👈.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report Casts WWE TV Deals As Loss Leaders, Misses Additional Value They Bring
> 
> 
> The conventional wisdom on pro wrestling has always been that, generally speaking, pro wrestling on television generates significantly less advertising revenue than other programming with a similarly sized audience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even USA Network and Fox are losing money on Raw and Smackdown because advertisers pay less for wrestling shows than they do for other shows that does less viewers and ratings. So TNT themselves are losing money off of Dynamite because again advertisers will pay less to put an ad on Dynamite than they will to put one on another TNT show. So this talk of "well the 18-49 that Dynamite does well in will bring better ads for TNT" needs to stop because thats not true. TNT makes more money off the other shows on their network than they ever will off of Dynamite.
> 
> 3. NXT makes USA Network more money off of ads than Dynamite does, because NXT is tv-pg while Dynamite is tv-14 which is the reason WWE went to tv-pg
> 
> _The Hollywood Reporter’s_ Marisa Guthrie in May 2018. “And wrestling is family friendly. If you have wrestling you can find cash. I think it’s a big win for Fox; it’s a great trade-off.” A little over a month later, in a _Sports Business Journal_ feature that went in-depth on WWE and the UFC’s negotiations for 2019 contracts, John Ourand wrote that “[h]istorically, WWE’s rights fees had been depressed as ad buyers shied away from the series. In the current media environment prioritizing live sports, however, advertisers now covet WWE’s large and engaged fan base.”
> 
> So NXT makes USA Network more money because its tv-pg (family friendly) than Dynamite soes for TNT because its tv-14.


Where does this article mention aew?


----------



## Wolf Mark

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I feel like the no crowds benefits NXT more since they were in a smaller arena anyways. AEW feels bigger with the crowds. When this covid stuff dies down and the crowds come back AEW will most likely steamroll them


Also product-wise WWE overall has been on auto pilot for ages and so crowds or no crowds it doesn't matter, I think. They just do their stuff and don't care. While the product of AEW had more of a connection with the live crowd. Especially someone like Cody. Imagine that wiping with no crowd, it would not have worked.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Where does this article mention aew?


I didn't say it mentioned AEW what I said was wrestling gets abysmal ads and networks lose money off of wrestling shows even if they do big 18-49 demo numbers, hence the 2 links and even a Fox executive said they can market WWE because its family friendly (tv-pg).


----------



## Wolf Mark

Mister Sinister said:


> I predict that AEW will do about 630k, and NXT will do about 700k. AEW just hates ratings and hates doing things that would create ratings. I feel like in their creative meetings right now they are in denial that there is something they are doing wrong. It can't possibly be because you aren't understanding your audience and you're not casting a wider net beyond single white men with no kids. You have no black star. You give no shits about making a Latino star of Fenix. You keep focusing on Nyla Rose instead of hot women. Sex sells. You seem to hate women wrestling. The women's division beyond Baker, Swole, Ford and Shida is a barf bag of muffin-topping indie girls that don't belong on tv.
> 
> It was only just over a month ago that they had a hot episode with Mike Tyson and all this crossover attention, and since then they have squandered it by putting Sonny Kiss and Abadon on television and focusing on midcarders like Brodie Lee and Cabana. Where is the sports appeal for the sport viewers that tuned in? Where did Tyson and his crew vanish to? Mox has been off tv for a month. And to top it off, they are going to pass on Tessa Blanchard and continue to pass on Austin Aries while bringing in more jobbers: Brian Pillman Jr and Zack Ryder.


Couldn't agree with a post more. There's an arrogance to them and they'll never admit to their wrong doings. And part of it is 1. The Elite not wanting to change what works in Japan and the Indies, long match, spot fests, comedy and no storylines. And 2. TK wanting his company to be woke. AEW will die on that hill. These are the two things that will kill them if no changes are made.


----------



## NXT Only

I’m so confused. What exactly is wrestling is going to as you all say....”draw ratings”


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't say it mentioned AEW what I said was wrestling gets abysmal ads and networks lose money off of wrestling shows even if they do big 18-49 demo numbers, hence the 2 links and even a Fox executive said they can market WWE because its family friendly (tv-pg).


So it doesn't mention aew's situation?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> So it doesn't mention aew's situation?


My post was explaining that AEW aren't making TNT more revenue because they have a higher 18-49 demo than NXT, because NXT makes USA Network more revenue than Dynamite does for TNT because its tv-pg and Dynamite is tv-14. Advertisers spend more money on NXT because its family friendly than they do for Dynamite, and plus TNT are losing money off of Dynamite because advertisers hate wrestling hence it gets abysmal ads for cheap so the 18-49 demo in wrestling is meaningless since a show with less 18-49 demo gets better ads. Networks lose money off of wrestling, and advertisers pay less for ads on a wrestling show and the fact that wrestling fans are generally poor and doesn't have a ton of income, hence why wrestling's 18-49 demo isn't desired by advertisers at all.


----------



## fabi1982

NXT Only said:


> So AEW is doing 700K+ live, 325k+ live on the B/R app, a few hundred thousand on FITE, on demand and DVR availability matters too. Plus the almighty illegal streams. And if I recall they did 1.4M and then 1.1M Their first two shows before any of these other things were available. So it seems like their audience hasn’t drastically dropped as stated but that it is split on how they watch the show.
> 
> interesting, I’d love to see the numbers.


And you get this B/R live number from where?


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> My post was explaining that AEW aren't making TNT more revenue because they have a higher 18-49 demo than NXT, because NXT makes USA Network more revenue than Dynamite does for TNT because its tv-pg and Dynamite is tv-14. Advertisers spend more money on NXT because its family friendly than they do for Dynamite, and plus TNT are losing money off of Dynamite because advertisers hate wrestling hence it gets abysmal ads for cheap so the 18-49 demo in wrestling is meaningless since a show with less 18-49 demo gets better ads. Networks lose money off of wrestling, and advertisers pay less for ads on a wrestling show and the fact that wrestling fans are generally poor and doesn't have a ton of income, hence why wrestling's 18-49 demo isn't desired by advertisers at all.


Doesn't say nxt makes more money than aew



fabi1982 said:


> And you get this B/R live number from where?


Hahaha


----------



## Mister Sinister

In a perfect world, DVRs would be updated to not allow viewers to skip commercials, and providers would give box owners the option to opt into a new ratings system to accurately track American viewership. DVRs are killing television ad revenue for everyone.

Dynamite definitely is not growing their family audience next week with the femboy Sonny Kiss in booty shorts sexually molesting another grown man in a title match. They might as well do a backstage segment where Nyla enters the showers while Shida is showering, Rose takes off her towel and gets close to Shida, Shida looks down and widens her eyes, and the camera cuts to black. The families and religious audiences are never coming back. This is the moment of decay just like when TNA let Orlando Jordan do this on television (this is what really ended TNA's momentum and began their downward trend that they were never able to recover from):


----------



## Pippen94

Mister Sinister said:


> In a perfect world, DVRs would be updated to not allow viewers to skip commercials, and providers would give box owners the option to opt into a new ratings system to accurately track American viewership. DVRs are killing television ad revenue for everyone.
> 
> Dynamite definitely is not growing their family audience next week with the femboy Sonny Kiss in booty shorts sexually molesting another grown man in a title match. They might as well do a backstage segment where Nyla enters the showers while Shida is showering, Rose takes off her towel and gets close to Shida, Shida looks down and widens her eyes, and the camera cuts to black. The families and religious audiences are never coming back. This is the moment of decay just like when TNA let Orlando Jordan do this on television (this is what really ended TNA's momentum and began their downward trend that they were never able to recover from):


Gay & trans aren't families?


----------



## TheDraw

ripcitydisciple said:


> These last three weeks has been a microcosm of each Company's Business Philosophy and how that pertains to Ratings
> 
> *WWE is about the instant gratification and the now therefore Total Viewers is the barometer of success.
> 
> AEW is about long term growth and health and therefore 18-34, 18-49, etc. demographics is the barometer of success.*


Haha sure buddy.


----------



## NXT Only

fabi1982 said:


> And you get this B/R live number from where?


The internet


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hey everyone, I've awoken from night shift and read the ratings. Oh how the goal posts quickly move when AEW loses the ratings.

Four weeks ago: Haha AEW won the ratings, ratings mean everything, NXT can go and suck a big one.

Now: HAHA NXT didn't kick our ass as much as they should have PLUS more people stream AEW live so AEW actually has 13 million viewers if you tally everything up while NXT only has 750k!1!1!!!



optikk sucks said:


> y'all telling me that the stacked NXT card barely took any eyes away from aew.
> 
> against OC and Jericho and the other garbage which a lot of the whiners complained about and discussed how AEW were flopping?????
> 
> LMAO. Eat your words im dying here


Ick. The absolute arrogance.



optikk sucks said:


> AEW DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THEIR MAIN EVENT


Ick.



Pippen94 said:


> Another win for aew


AEW actually lost, Pippen.



optikk sucks said:


> "tank"


I'm cringing.



prosperwithdeen said:


> I know people here don't like hearing this because it speaks too much to the reality of the situation, but clearly it was because of COVID. Everything up until DON2 was a product of the pandemic. Half the roster wasn't there. After DON2 when they started to get their feet back under them, they got a little lazy with so much time between PPV's. It was kind of "filler-ish". So like you said, there is no excuse to not have epic TV coming up after Fight for the Fallen.


But when it isn't epic TV after Fight For The Fallen what will your new excuse be? Because 4-5 weeks ago people (Not sure if it was you) were saying that AEW would no doubt pick things up and start putting on killer TV in the lead up to FyterFest.



bdon said:


> How long are you all going to keep blaming the pandemic for their lack of gusto when it comes to storylines? It’s time to shit or get off the pot.


Yup. They've had about 2 months now with their heavy hitters on the roster being available to them.



TD Stinger said:


> I mean, 5 pages of posts full of mocking GIFs and people wishing AEW would lose to give them a "wake up call" does not give me that impression. And the shit you see on Social Media....damn.
> 
> If they don't "truly care", they do a bad job of not showing it.


The mocking .gifs are from the AEW fans. NXT fans don't even really come in here you just have the people who will cheer on anything AEW does (Even when it comes to losing ratings) and the people who are realists and say "Well hold on now, they're not doing very well at all"



prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that people are not even considering the BR live streaming platform. They did 325K live viewers last week separate from cable, meaning that the live “legal” rating was actually 1.1 million for night 1 of Fyter Fest to NXT’s 750K+. LOL. Live numbers for night 2 are yet to be released. So if we are being real here, AEW is winning the overall live viewership as well. If Tony REALLY wanted to get savage, he would bring that up lol, but it’s better that he just stops.


AEW should be doing much more than 1.1 million people. I'm shocked people are happy with this.

Tony is a boob.



El Hammerstone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281365780332937217
> Make that 5


Joey Janela has quickly become the most hateable guy on the AEW roster.

He's clearly referencing myself and the people on this forum also, haha. I always say Janela looks like he never went to the gym in his life. Hi Joey! Your match sucked and so do you 



Mister Sinister said:


> In a perfect world, DVRs would be updated to not allow viewers to skip commercials, and providers would give box owners the option to opt into a new ratings system to accurately track American viewership. DVRs are killing television ad revenue for everyone.
> 
> Dynamite definitely is not growing their family audience next week with the femboy Sonny Kiss in booty shorts sexually molesting another grown man in a title match. They might as well do a backstage segment where Nyla enters the showers while Shida is showering, Rose takes off her towel and gets close to Shida, Shida looks down and widens her eyes, and the camera cuts to black. The families and religious audiences are never coming back. This is the moment of decay just like when TNA let Orlando Jordan do this on television (this is what really ended TNA's momentum and began their downward trend that they were never able to recover from):


Don't talk shit about my man Orlando Jordan!

All kidding aside, Orlando didn't have much to do with the end of TNA at all. Gimmick was weird but heaps of people really enjoyed it also. He was being compared to Goldust at one point.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> I didn't say it mentioned AEW what I said was wrestling gets abysmal ads and networks lose money off of wrestling shows even if they do big 18-49 demo numbers, hence the 2 links and even a Fox executive said they can market WWE because its family friendly (tv-pg).


dafuk ya talkin bout bruh?

If 2 shows do a 1M in views, if one averages a .29 and the other a .18, dat show wit da .29 makes more money on ads. Why ya think ratings of 18-49 rank dem shows for?


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hey everyone, I've awoken from night shift and read the ratings. Oh how the goal posts quickly move when AEW loses the ratings.
> 
> Four weeks ago: Haha AEW won the ratings, ratings mean everything, NXT can go and suck a big one.
> 
> Now: HAHA NXT didn't kick our ass as much as they should have PLUS more people stream AEW live so AEW actually has 13 million viewers if you tally everything up while NXT only has 750k!1!1!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Ick. The absolute arrogance.
> 
> 
> 
> Ick.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW actually lost, Pippen.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm cringing.
> 
> 
> 
> But when it isn't epic TV after Fight For The Fallen what will your new excuse be? Because 4-5 weeks ago people (Not sure if it was you) were saying that AEW would no doubt pick things up and start putting on killer TV in the lead up to FyterFest.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. They've had about 2 months now with their heavy hitters on the roster being available to them.
> 
> 
> 
> The mocking .gifs are from the AEW fans. NXT fans don't even really come in here you just have the people who will cheer on anything AEW does (Even when it comes to losing ratings) and the people who are realists and say "Well hold on now, they're not doing very well at all"
> 
> 
> 
> AEW should be doing much more than 1.1 million people. I'm shocked people are happy with this.
> 
> Tony is a boob.
> 
> 
> 
> Joey Janela has quickly become the most hateable guy on the AEW roster.
> 
> He's clearly referencing myself and the people on this forum also, haha. I always say Janela looks like he never went to the gym in his life. Hi Joey! Your match sucked and so do you


Aew finished ahead - it won


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> "Losing viewers" too bad we've debunked that theory.


No you have not. I don't think you understand what debunked means. You've tried to by speaking a bunch of shit but the facts stands that they continue to lose viewers as the months go on.



Pippen94 said:


> You're right 759000 is more than 715000


All you needed to say. Thanks for the chat, Pippen


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> All you needed to say. Thanks for the chat, Pippen


Lot of nursing homes tuning in


----------



## Chip Chipperson

As I've said before. My eyes were opened up when I went to a club and saw NXT airing on the TV alongside the NRL and English Premier League.

Never seen anything AEW in Australia.


----------



## NXT Only

Cult03 said:


> No you have not. I don't think you understand what debunked means. You've tried to by speaking a bunch of shit but the facts stands that they continue to lose viewers as the months go on.


Their live tv viewership is down but again accounting for other sources of viewership their numbers are right where they were. So again their viewership isn’t down, it’s just spread out. Simple.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> dafuk ya talkin bout bruh?
> 
> If 2 shows do a 1M in views, if one averages a .29 and the other a .18, dat show wit da .29 *makes more money on ads.* Why ya think ratings of 18-49 rank dem shows for?


The funny thing is that NXT did nearly 0 commercials during the show (they want to beat AEW so bad that they cut off the commercials XD), so the advertisers made nearly no money last night XD


----------



## The Wood

Holy shit, what a fucking shit-show this has turned into, hahaha. 

All these fucking whingy, cringy cunts in AEW showing their true colors. All these guys who say "Who cares about ratings?" _clearly_ care about ratings. Tony Khan also proving that he can't hack it. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't find the need to go public with how happy he is. I also seriously doubt the industry uses Showbuzz charts or thinks the best way to reach the people in that demo (by the way, the average age of the AEW fan is 45 years old) is cable television in 2020. But keep on trying to convince people you don't wank dogs, Tony.

Oh, man. Is there a better way to show the world you cling to these ratings than going onto Twitter and talking about how much you don't care?

I said this a long time ago, and I didn't hammer it in as much as people usually make me repeat my beliefs, but I predicted that when AEW starts to lose you will see the wheels come off and them low-key self-destruct WCW-style. The egos wouldn't be able to handle it, and they'd have to operate from underneath for the first time. You're seeing the beginning stages of what that looks like. Tony Khan melting down, employees sucking up, wrestlers vanity searching themselves and trying to take uneducated jabs, and them basically looking shitty and insecure all around. 

I know I should act like I am sad and that I hope they get it together, but this is better than the wrestling, and the schadenfreude is honestly spectacular. Come on, Tony -- drink a few more White Claws.


----------



## NXT Only

Legit question. In today’s world, do you think only live tv viewership matters?

Remember NXT has the WWE Network + DVR

Remember AEW has BR Live, On Demand, DVR and Fite TV.

Both of these shows are doing better than we all think. To focus on only live tv is insane and agenda driven.

I mean think about it RAW and SD “lost” so many viewers from golden days yet continue to get TV rights deals. The world just works different now.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, what a fucking shit-show this has turned into, hahaha.
> 
> All these fucking whingy, cringy cunts in AEW showing their true colors. All these guys who say "Who cares about ratings?" _clearly_ care about ratings. Tony Khan also proving that he can't hack it. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't find the need to go public with how happy he is. I also seriously doubt the industry uses Showbuzz charts or thinks the best way to reach the people in that demo (by the way, the average age of the AEW fan is 45 years old) is cable television in 2020. But keep on trying to convince people you don't wank dogs, Tony.
> 
> Oh, man. Is there a better way to show the world you cling to these ratings than going onto Twitter and talking about how much you don't care?
> 
> I said this a long time ago, and I didn't hammer it in as much as people usually make me repeat my beliefs, but I predicted that when AEW starts to lose you will see the wheels come off and them low-key self-destruct WCW-style. The egos wouldn't be able to handle it, and they'd have to operate from underneath for the first time. You're seeing the beginning stages of what that looks like. Tony Khan melting down, employees sucking up, wrestlers vanity searching themselves and trying to take uneducated jabs, and them basically looking shitty and insecure all around.
> 
> I know I should act like I am sad and that I hope they get it together, but this is better than the wrestling, and the schadenfreude is honestly spectacular. Come on, Tony -- drink a few more White Claws.


Too bad you predicted aew to win


----------



## K4L318

Cult03 said:


> All you needed to say. Thanks for the chat, Pippen





The Wood said:


> Holy shit, what a fucking shit-show this has turned into, hahaha.
> 
> All these fucking whingy, cringy cunts in AEW showing their true colors. All these guys who say "Who cares about ratings?" _clearly_ care about ratings. Tony Khan also proving that he can't hack it. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't find the need to go public with how happy he is. I also seriously doubt the industry uses Showbuzz charts or thinks the best way to reach the people in that demo (by the way, the average age of the AEW fan is 45 years old) is cable television in 2020. But keep on trying to convince people you don't wank dogs, Tony.
> 
> Oh, man. Is there a better way to show the world you cling to these ratings than going onto Twitter and talking about how much you don't care?
> 
> I said this a long time ago, and I didn't hammer it in as much as people usually make me repeat my beliefs, but I predicted that when AEW starts to lose you will see the wheels come off and them low-key self-destruct WCW-style. The egos wouldn't be able to handle it, and they'd have to operate from underneath for the first time. You're seeing the beginning stages of what that looks like. Tony Khan melting down, employees sucking up, wrestlers vanity searching themselves and trying to take uneducated jabs, and them basically looking shitty and insecure all around.
> 
> I know I should act like I am sad and that I hope they get it together, but this is better than the wrestling, and the schadenfreude is honestly spectacular. Come on, Tony -- drink a few more White Claws.


bruh Tony is a wrestling geek, he gonna talk numbers. Aint nothin different there.



NXT Only said:


> Legit question. In today’s world, do you think only live tv viewership matters?
> 
> Remember NXT has the WWE Network + DVR
> 
> Remember AEW has BR Live, On Demand, DVR and Fite TV.
> 
> Both of these shows are doing better than we all think. To focus on only live tv is insane and agenda driven.
> 
> I mean think about it RAW and SD “lost” so many viewers from golden days yet continue to get TV rights deals. The world just works different now.


NXT barely top rated on WWE Network, they dont get even 50K on dem streams. DVR they get a bit. same wit AEW.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> NXT barely top rated on WWE Network, they dont get even 50K on dem streams. DVR they get a bit. same wit AEW.


Usually AEW dvr numbers are a bit better than NXT.

I guess the peoples who watched NXT live, DVR AEW and the same in other direction.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Too bad you predicted aew to win


Actually, I predicted 800k for NXT and 700k for AEW. I said I _can_ see AEW winning out of pity to get myself ready for the narrow-sighted gloating that would come as people don't see the storm clouds gathering. But nice job trying to lie again.



NXT Only said:


> Legit question. In today’s world, do you think only live tv viewership matters?
> 
> Remember NXT has the WWE Network + DVR
> 
> Remember AEW has BR Live, On Demand, DVR and Fite TV.
> 
> Both of these shows are doing better than we all think. To focus on only live tv is insane and agenda driven.
> 
> I mean think about it RAW and SD “lost” so many viewers from golden days yet continue to get TV rights deals. The world just works different now.


Haha, this is so funny coming from the AEW side. That is what I've been saying about NXT from the start (when it simply came to brand popularity) and got outright mocked for it. What those things don't cover though are live viewers on cable, which is still fucking important. That's what advertisers are interested in, and that's what TNT is interested in. And if AEW lose TNT, how well are they going to be doing? What happens to their presence then? Yes, these shows are more popular than the literal viewership on cable. Who cares? That's not what we're measuring here. It's a different discussion. And if TNT is losing their viewers, the other metrics are going down too. 

You are the most ironic poster on these boards. What is "agenda driven" is trying to blow away the ratings discussion for phantom viewers, tape delay viewers, international viewers, etc. like popularity is what we're discussing as opposed to viability. If a third of PPV buys come internationally, it stands to reason that there might be 1 million or so AEW fans worldwide. Who gives a fuck? 700k are watching live on TNT where that shit can properly be monetised. And they are losing ground and melting down.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> Usually AEW dvr numbers are a bit better than NXT.
> 
> I guess the peoples who watched NXT live, DVR AEW and the same in other direction.


I dont get da outrage. Didnt dem fools lose Mox Vs Cage? did they think Orange and Jericho was gonna draw equal dat? 
like com'on bruh, dat main event was lost cuz dem fools in PC gave Renee da rona and Mox quarantined himself. 😂


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Actually, I predicted 800k for NXT and 700k for AEW. I said I _can_ see AEW winning out of pity to get myself ready for the narrow-sighted gloating that would come as people don't see the storm clouds gathering. But nice job trying to lie again.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, this is so funny coming from the AEW side. That is what I've been saying about NXT from the start (when it simply came to brand popularity) and got outright mocked for it. What those things don't cover though are live viewers on cable, which is still fucking important. That's what advertisers are interested in, and that's what TNT is interested in. And if AEW lose TNT, how well are they going to be doing? What happens to their presence then? Yes, these shows are more popular than the literal viewership on cable. Who cares? That's not what we're measuring here. It's a different discussion. And if TNT is losing their viewers, the other metrics are going down too.
> 
> You are the most ironic poster on these boards. What is "agenda driven" is trying to blow away the ratings discussion for phantom viewers, tape delay viewers, international viewers, etc. like popularity is what we're discussing as opposed to viability. If a third of PPV buys come internationally, it stands to reason that there might be 1 million or so AEW fans worldwide. Who gives a fuck? 700k are watching live on TNT where that shit can properly be monetised. And they are losing ground and melting down.


So you made two predictions - nxt winning & also aew winning. Then after results came out you claimed to have made correct prediction - which technically you did I guess, also cheating tho


----------



## zkorejo

I read somewhere Raw did 1.6 this week... damn. Wednesday Wrestling (AEW and NXT together) is closing in on the biggest and longest running weekly wrestling show of all time. That is kind of cool. Sucks for Raw though.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> Usually AEW dvr numbers are a bit better than NXT.
> 
> I guess the peoples who watched NXT live, DVR AEW and the same in other direction.


Nxt fans need their kids to program DVR for them


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> So you made two predictions - nxt winning & also aew winning. Then after results came out you claimed to have made correct prediction - which technically you did I guess, also cheating tho


You don't get points for predicting, Pips. I explained what scenarios I could see playing out. You're the one latching onto them like they mean anything. Could you be any more Tony Khan about me? 



zkorejo said:


> I read somewhere Raw did 1.6 this week... damn. Wednesday Wrestling (AEW and NXT together) is closing in on the biggest and longest running weekly wrestling show of all time. That is kind of cool. Sucks for Raw though.


Two shows almost equalling one, especially when over 50% of that is owned by the people who own the big one, is not something to freak out about. AEW, realistically, could have had ratings comparable to Raw on its own. You know, if people actually got the alternative they wanted. From WWE's perspective, they have the #1, #2 and #3 most watched wrestling programs in the US (and probably around the world). This accounts for seven hours of weekly content. They also probably have the most diverse and marketable audience when it comes to wrestling. AEW has two alleged priority hours that are struggling to keep up with show #3.


----------



## zkorejo

The Wood said:


> Two shows almost equalling one, especially when over 50% of that is owned by the people who own the big one, is not something to freak out about. AEW, realistically, could have had ratings comparable to Raw on its own. You know, if people actually got the alternative they wanted. From WWE's perspective, they have the #1, #2 and #3 most watched wrestling programs in the US (and probably around the world). This accounts for seven hours of weekly content. They also probably have the most diverse and marketable audience when it comes to wrestling. AEW has two alleged priority hours that are struggling to keep up with show #3.


I wasnt freaking out by any means, just said its kind of cool for a show that has not even been around for a year and a developmental brand that just got a tv deal are both close to a weekly wrestling show that has been running for 28 years.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> I wasnt freaking out by any means, just said its kind of cool for a show that has not even been around for a year and a developmental brand that just got a tv deal are both close to a weekly wrestling show that has been running for 28 years.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were, but some people do. They act like this is some sort of revolution. Raw being a sinking ship is one thing, and 1.5 million hardcore fans between two shows is another. Neither is particularly "impressive" right now, haha. 

Also, the idea that tenacious shows are automatically successful needs to go. Is a show that has been on 28 years guaranteed bigger ratings than a hot new series hitting it white-hot? Of course not.


----------



## fabi1982

NXT Only said:


> The internet


So you mean this?

„AEW’s Fighter Fest drew an average of 140,000 viewers on the B/R Live streaming service.“

so the 350k you mentioned is bullshit, right? As they even say „The show was considered a success on BR Live. The three-and-a-half hour broadcast averaged 140,000 viewers if you were to figure it like a television show“.

so its 140 combined for both days. Thats much less big than what you stated. And isnt this commercial free? So with all the talks about how happy advertisers are, they couldnt give a shit about br live?!


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You don't get points for predicting, Pips. I explained what scenarios I could see playing out. You're the one latching onto them like they mean anything. Could you be any more Tony Khan about me?
> 
> 
> 
> Two shows almost equalling one, especially when over 50% of that is owned by the people who own the big one, is not something to freak out about. AEW, realistically, could have had ratings comparable to Raw on its own. You know, if people actually got the alternative they wanted. From WWE's perspective, they have the #1, #2 and #3 most watched wrestling programs in the US (and probably around the world). This accounts for seven hours of weekly content. They also probably have the most diverse and marketable audience when it comes to wrestling. AEW has two alleged priority hours that are struggling to keep up with show #3.


Just calling bullshit when I see it


----------



## The Wood

The very nature of this discussion, and how emphasis has shifted from "Look at AEW kicking ass!" to all these caveats, excuses and goalpost shifting really highlights the truth. That change in subject is what the story is. AEW and its fans, whether they are going to admit it or not, are unsettled by NXT beating AEW in viewership. Why? It's perception. And this is why NXT didn't go overboard with NXT from the start. I know I posted this, but I can't have been the only one to think it: They were trying to beat AEW on the merit of the content. And that's what's happened. And that's what bothers AEW and the faithful so much. It wasn't that they put Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena on an episode of NXT to smoke 'em -- AEW ran off enough fans and NXT has been consistent enough and the scales have tipped a little bit. And that's deeply unsettling for people who want to believe that AEW is the superior wrestling product.



Pippen94 said:


> Just calling bullshit when I see it


Spoken like a true bullshitter.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> So you mean this?
> 
> „AEW’s Fighter Fest drew an average of 140,000 viewers on the B/R Live streaming service.“
> 
> so the 350k you mentioned is bullshit, right? As they even say „The show was considered a success on BR Live. The three-and-a-half hour broadcast averaged 140,000 viewers if you were to figure it like a television show“.
> 
> so its 140 combined for both days. Thats much less big than what you stated. And isnt this commercial free? So with all the talks about how happy advertisers are, they couldnt give a shit about br live?!


Neither episode went 3 1/2 hours. Think you quoting last year Einstein


----------



## K4L318

ya peeps crackin me up right now.

dem cats lost their main event. What wit all this talk? 😂

both had good numbers, AEW made more money cuz NXT was commercial free, dat shit is desperate bruh, NXT wanted dat headline win and AEW wasnt gonna go commercial free

Keith Lee was a rona spread away from not being an issue.


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> Neither episode went 3 1/2 hours. Think you quoting last year Einstein


XD


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> Their live tv viewership is down but again accounting for other sources of viewership their numbers are right where they were. So again their viewership isn’t down, it’s just spread out. Simple.


But the 18-49 live demo is the only thing that matters. That's what your friends have been screaming for the last few weeks. It's down, because the 1.4 mil viewers wasn't accounting for the other sources either. Simple.



Pippen94 said:


> Nxt fans need their kids to program DVR for them


I know you're trying to be funny but how does this ratings system account for those kids who watch it on their parents system? It doesn't. The 18-49 demo is impossible to actually judge and therefore this system is flawed. The only thing that should matter to the fans in 2020 is which show is better and AEW wins that often, but so does NXT. Bragging rights over a flawed system win is fucking lame but if it's all you and the other clowns can cling to then good luck to you all.


----------



## K4L318

all this chatter and dem cats are good

*



I can tell you that from speaking to a lot of sources at Warner Media, they absolutely love AEW's performance and do so much that there's been a lot of talk in recent weeks about developing other ways to link AEW with additional corners of Warner properties.

Click to expand...







IS THE AUDIENCE NUMBER OR DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION MORE IMPORTANT FOR WRESTLING TV SERIES, JJ DILLON, WHY ECW WASNT BIGGER DURING IT'S RUN AND MORE | PWInsider.com







www.pwinsider.com




*


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> Legit question. In today’s world, do you think only live tv viewership matters?
> 
> Remember NXT has the WWE Network + DVR
> 
> Remember AEW has BR Live, On Demand, DVR and Fite TV.
> 
> Both of these shows are doing better than we all think. To focus on only live tv is insane and agenda driven.
> 
> I mean think about it RAW and SD “lost” so many viewers from golden days yet continue to get TV rights deals. The world just works different now.


You're right, NXT is shown all over the world and then again on the Network. I'm sure their numbers far surpass that of AEW.


----------



## rbl85

Cult03 said:


> I know you're trying to be funny but how does* this ratings system account for those kids who watch it on their parents system?* It doesn't. The 18-49 demo is impossible to actually judge and therefore this system is flawed. The only thing that should matter to the fans in 2020 is which show is better and AEW wins that often, but so does NXT. Bragging rights over a flawed system win is fucking lame but if it's all you and the other clowns can cling to then good luck to you all.


You know AEW have more probability to have that because the number of viewers per home for AEW is bigger than any other wrestling show.



Cult03 said:


> You're right, NXT is shown all over the world and then again on the Network. I'm sure their numbers far surpass that of AEW.


Even when NXT was only on the network the show was barely making the top 10 of the most watched programm on the network. 

Do you really think people are going to pay when they can have the show for free and without commercials on the internet ?


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> You know AEW have more probability to have that because the number of viewers per home for AEW is bigger than any other wrestling show.


Pretty much my point homie. The entire thing is flawed for both sides and it's ridiculous to claim a win for either side considering it's impossible to accurately know who is watching where and when they're watching it.


----------



## rbl85

Cult03 said:


> Pretty much my point homie. The entire thing is flawed for both sides and it's ridiculous to claim a win for either side considering it's impossible to accurately know who is watching where and when they're watching it.


Then why are we "fighting" each other over this ? XD


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> Even when NXT was only on the network the show was barely making the top 10 of the most watched programm on the network.
> 
> Do you really think people are going to pay when they can have the show for free and without commercials on the internet ?


Not at all what I'm arguing. You're also actively talking down the chances of NXT having more online viewers whilst simultaneously claiming AEW would have more anyway. One number we could actually use is their Twitter numbers. NXT has 1.3 millions, whereas AEW has 532k. These are the internet fans you're talking about. More people know about NXT so more people could be viewing it than you think. My point is that we just don't know and we probably never will have an accurate number and we have no idea that 18-49 year olds are even watching it. Who cares? The goal posts will move when AEW loses the next thing anyway



rbl85 said:


> Then why are we "fighting" each other over this ? XD


Because that's what you guys do. You see red when someone isn't saying AEW is perfect and you argue it like there's a vendetta against this crap. There isn't, we just want them to get better and not piss in our pockets and tell us it's raining.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pippen94 said:


> But something has happen since then.. What was it? That's right COVID!!!


So you believe Covid is the reason why they lost 250k viewership lead against NXT and have now had less viewers 3weeks in a row?
I'm pretty sure covid apply to NXT TV too, but maybe you'll enlighten me.

Quick example
Jan 8th - AEW 971k, 0.36 demo NXT 721k, 0.19 demo
Jul 8th - AEW 715k, 0.28 demo NXT 759k, 0.20 demo

This is exactly 6months apart. AEW had a lead of 250k in viewership and 0.17 in demos. Now there is only a lead of 0.08 in demo and they are now losing in viewership by 44k. So a swing of *299,000 viewers to NXT.*

It is quite clear to see Tony & Jericho are getting very defensive and making a big deal out of the demo. They barely spoke about ratings or demos when they were well ahead. Its embarrassing mate.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Actually, I predicted 800k for NXT and 700k for AEW. I said I _can_ see AEW winning out of pity to get myself ready for the narrow-sighted gloating that would come as people don't see the storm clouds gathering. But nice job trying to lie again.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, this is so funny coming from the AEW side. That is what I've been saying about NXT from the start (when it simply came to brand popularity) and got outright mocked for it. What those things don't cover though are live viewers on cable, which is still fucking important. That's what advertisers are interested in, and that's what TNT is interested in. And if AEW lose TNT, how well are they going to be doing? What happens to their presence then? Yes, these shows are more popular than the literal viewership on cable. Who cares? That's not what we're measuring here. It's a different discussion. And if TNT is losing their viewers, the other metrics are going down too.
> 
> You are the most ironic poster on these boards. What is "agenda driven" is trying to blow away the ratings discussion for phantom viewers, tape delay viewers, international viewers, etc. like popularity is what we're discussing as opposed to viability. If a third of PPV buys come internationally, it stands to reason that there might be 1 million or so AEW fans worldwide. Who gives a fuck? 700k are watching live on TNT where that shit can properly be monetised. And they are losing ground and melting down.


Why are you cussing at me?



fabi1982 said:


> So you mean this?
> 
> „AEW’s Fighter Fest drew an average of 140,000 viewers on the B/R Live streaming service.“
> 
> so the 350k you mentioned is bullshit, right? As they even say „The show was considered a success on BR Live. The three-and-a-half hour broadcast averaged 140,000 viewers if you were to figure it like a television show“.
> 
> so its 140 combined for both days. Thats much less big than what you stated. And isnt this commercial free? So with all the talks about how happy advertisers are, they couldnt give a shit about br live?!


Dude found 2019 information lol. Learn how to use the internet old man.


----------



## 304418

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah it would be helpful but all streaming apps/networks unfortunately don't release that info to the public on a weekly basis. Sometimes you’ll get articles though. It's only for the advertisers and TV execs to see for the most part. 95% of fans don't care about ratings so I'm sure they don't even think it's worth posting like Nielsen. Seems like some of the bigger shows Like Fight for the fallen and fyter fest are reported though as well as PPV buy rates on their network And subscriptions through insider sources like WON, Ringside News, Observer and SESCoops.
> 
> They stream on AT&T too? Didn't know that, which means the live audience is even bigger. Yeah the picture and picture is great, I just mute the stream lol. And yeah the overall audience is drastically bigger, I would say both AEW and NXT are doing around 2Mil+ with RAW and SD probably doing 4 or 5Mil+.





NXT Only said:


> So AEW is doing 700K+ live, 325k+ live on the B/R app, a few hundred thousand on FITE, on demand and DVR availability matters too. Plus the almighty illegal streams. And if I recall they did 1.4M and then 1.1M Their first two shows before any of these other things were available. So it seems like their audience hasn’t drastically dropped as stated but that it is split on how they watch the show.
> 
> interesting, I’d love to see the numbers.


It shows that AEW is doing much better than thought (and Raw & Smackdown too, probably). And I was right when I said months ago that they could get what WCW got at the end of their run i.e. 3M views. All signs shows that they are in fact trending in that direction; it just not exclusively on cable like before.

They’d have no problem starting their own stream network from a perspective related to the number of subscriptions they would get. It’s all related to content.


----------



## imthegame19

Hephaesteus said:


> You're right, tony can do what he wants. Still looks stupid as fuck for the owner of a company to justify his show to mouth-breathers on twitter. Not only does it make him look desperate, but hes not gonna convert enough people over to justify anything.


Haha what a stupid response. Did Tony reply to anyone? Did he get in Twitter argument with anyone? Nope he just sent out explaining and educating people how ratings work. AEW was winning viewership and demo majority of the time. Just last 3 weeks NXT won viewership yet and things weren't being reported correctly. 


Just because you don't like that information he tweeted. Or feels weird to you cuz wwe doesn't do it. Is anything but desperate. I guess correcting the wrong narrviate among fans makes him desperate hahaha.


If anything he made all those haters and idiots look stupid. Because they were all excited about NXT. Then Tony in a very nice and respectful way. Pretty much said you people are idiots and bragged about the company success. That's anything but desperate really lol.


----------



## bdon

What I will say in all of these posts is that AEW should look itself in the goddamn mirror and start putting out consistently good shows, not just good shows a few weeks prior to PPV’s.

Annnnnnnd let me add that it is a little comical watching some of the detractors discuss how ratings, demos, etc are inherently flawed, mock the moving goal posts, then still turn around and say, “What will you say when AEW loses the next thing?”

Do these things matter or not, @Cult03 ? You know where I stand on the show and how I feel about it, but I’m not over here thumping my chest when they win or lose as you very clearly seem to be doing. I hope they lose enough viewers that they open their eyes, but in even saying that, I’m not claiming the ratings don’t matter, are inaccurate, etc in one breath and laughing about their next loss in the next breath either.

My apologies if I’ve misread you, but it comes off as double speak. Or maybe I’m not reading correctly as I just woke up.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Neither episode went 3 1/2 hours. Think you quoting last year Einstein


You're getting salty. Sounds like your feelings are hurt. Step back from being so insulting to people. It's not a good look for the AEW apologists.

That was a pretty bad number for a free show on B/R Live, which Dave credits AEW for attracting 300k subscribers to. They could only get 140k to watch for free? I can't imagine that number has greatly increased in a year.


----------



## bdon

Oh, and it doesn’t a psyche analyst to read between the lines of Tony Khan and Jericho’s tweets: they’re caught off guard by the numbers and sound like a couple of children. Jericho comes off more like typical Jericho, trolling with the lowest hanging fruit, but what is troublesome is Tony actually sounds like he’s dead serious and trying to explain away a failure.

And trust me, if he wasn’t concerned with these things, he wouldn’t be commenting on it. Just like he wasn’t commenting when AEW was smoking NXT on a weekly basis.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

K4L318 said:


> all this chatter and dem cats are good
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IS THE AUDIENCE NUMBER OR DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION MORE IMPORTANT FOR WRESTLING TV SERIES, JJ DILLON, WHY ECW WASNT BIGGER DURING IT'S RUN AND MORE | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


I hope this doesn’t lead to batman appearing on Dynamite ala Robocop on WCW


----------



## imthegame19

K4L318 said:


> all this chatter and dem cats are good
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IS THE AUDIENCE NUMBER OR DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION MORE IMPORTANT FOR WRESTLING TV SERIES, JJ DILLON, WHY ECW WASNT BIGGER DURING IT'S RUN AND MORE | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Haha wait I thought Jericho and Tony Khan desperate and being defensive. It doesn't sound like they would need to be at all ahahahaha. All the did was try to explain and educate dumb wrestling fans and dirt sheets. Do they need to? No they could ignore dumb and uneducated. 


Or they can be nice and try to explain how it works. So they don't have millions of tweets from idiots trashing them every time NXT has more viewers. When they don't give a shit about what show has more viewers. But I guess trying to explain things to people and not ignoring wrong info. Makes someone desperate these days lol. Or more likely fans don't like info he shared and dirt sheets were embarrassed they keep focusing on viewership. 


So instead of looking at is as refreshing that Tony took 5 minute out of his day to explain how it all works. People are calling him petty or unprofessional or whatever. Well anyone with those opinions is just bias haters or don't get what he actually did. Somehow explaining how ratings work and they are doing very well is bad lol. Just cuz Vince or Triple H don't tweet about it lol.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Haha what a stupid response. Did Tony reply to anyone? Did he get in Twitter argument with anyone? Nope he just sent out explaining and educating people how ratings work. AEW was winning viewership and demo majority of the time. Just last 3 weeks NXT won viewership yet and things weren't being reported correctly.
> 
> 
> Just because you don't like that information he tweeted. Or feels weird to you cuz wwe doesn't do it. Is anything but desperate. I guess correcting the wrong narrviate among fans makes him desperate hahaha.
> 
> 
> If anything he made all those haters and idiots look stupid. Because they were all excited about NXT. Then Tony in a very nice and respectful way. Pretty much said you people are idiots and bragged about the company success. That's anything but desperate really lol.


He didn't explain how ratings work. Not at all. He gave a really simplified and cherry-picked surface-level response to try and paint his company as being successful in a week where they took a perceived loss. You can try and dress it up anyway you want, but instead of just ignoring it or taking it on the chin, Tony went about this like an upset teenager. It comes off as very desperate. You may not think so, but there are LOTS of people, even those who usually support the company who do, and that perception is the reality of the situation. Not a good look.

Imagine if I made an album and the CD version was #1 for a few months, but then sold less than someone else's for a few weeks and I then I went on Twitter and said that mine is still the biggest hit with people 18-49 and that's really all record stores care about, and here is a chart off the internet that "the industry" follows and see how high mine is, why does no one talk about how high mine is in this section this week? 

Also, this is not the narrative amongst fans. Listen to yourself talk. AEW has been the fucking darling of the internet since it started. That's why it exists in the form it does. It's why All In sold out. The narrative amongst fans -- as you see here with people like you, optikk and Pippen -- is that NXT is for boomers and AEW is for young, hip, cool kids and wins the demo and that is all that matters. And don't say it's not, because I've been arguing with you about this for MONTHS. Khan doesn't like he's gotten "beaten" three weeks in a row, so he's having a sook, because FyterFest was one of their best shots to turn things back around, and he's got to deal with the insecurity of seeing a show he was beating for months pull out in front based on merit. That's got to sting when you think you're actually doing a good job and don't know where to go from here. 

When it comes to Raw and SmackDown, Meltzer and Alvarez very rarely talk about the demo. Raw does extremely well and is crucial to the USA Network because those three hours rank in the top five each week (usually). SmackDown is usually either #1 or tied for first place on Fridays. But it's more rewarding for the subscribers to hear about how Raw and SmackDown are haemorrhaging viewers. Demos popped up again because they were a way to make AEW look good. Tony Khan whinging about demos not coming up for him is highly fucking rich. 

If you're bragging about your company's success in light of its perceived failures, you're probably fucking desperate. Success often speaks for itself. He didn't show anyone up and he made himself look foolish. You might refuse to see it, but if this company had stock, it would probably take a tiny bit of a hit from this -- it certainly wouldn't go up. And the viewership being down wouldn't help them either. You may not like it, but that's the reality. Bad, bad look. 



bdon said:


> What I will say in all of these posts is that AEW should look itself in the goddamn mirror and start putting out consistently good shows, not just good shows a few weeks prior to PPV’s.
> 
> Annnnnnnd let me add that it is a little comical watching some of the detractors discuss how ratings, demos, etc are inherently flawed, mock the moving goal posts, then still turn around and say, “What will you say when AEW loses the next thing?”
> 
> Do these things matter or not, @Cult03 ? You know where I stand on the show and how I feel about it, but I’m not over here thumping my chest when they win or lose as you very clearly seem to be doing. I hope they lose enough viewers that they open their eyes, but in even saying that, I’m not claiming the ratings don’t matter, are inaccurate, etc in one breath and laughing about their next loss in the next breath either.
> 
> My apologies if I’ve misread you, but it comes off as double speak. Or maybe I’m not reading correctly as I just woke up.


The faithful are always taking the ratings literally, so it's fun to turn the sword on them. Hey, they want to live by the sword, they have to die by the sword. There's nothing wrong with asking these people what they will say when the metric they are hanging their hat on turns on them. It'll be funny if they start losing the demo too. I don't think they realise how much goodwill this company is eroding.


----------



## NXT Only

^This dude is writing insane amounts of nothing


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> What I will say in all of these posts is that AEW should look itself in the goddamn mirror and start putting out consistently good shows, not just good shows a few weeks prior to PPV’s.
> 
> Annnnnnnd let me add that it is a little comical watching some of the detractors discuss how ratings, demos, etc are inherently flawed, mock the moving goal posts, then still turn around and say, “What will you say when AEW loses the next thing?”
> 
> Do these things matter or not, @Cult03 ? You know where I stand on the show and how I feel about it, but I’m not over here thumping my chest when they win or lose as you very clearly seem to be doing. I hope they lose enough viewers that they open their eyes, but in even saying that, I’m not claiming the ratings don’t matter, are inaccurate, etc in one breath and laughing about their next loss in the next breath either.
> 
> My apologies if I’ve misread you, but it comes off as double speak. Or maybe I’m not reading correctly as I just woke up.


I don't think saying NXT had more viewers is thumping my chest at all, these things don't matter but watching the AEW super fans spin is what I have an issue with


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Here’s the updated demo comparison from @wrestlenomics on Twitter.

AEW +73% on p18-34 this week what the fuck lol









jeez 😱


----------



## The Wood

AEW have the advantage with that because NXT airs on the WWE Network, plus, if a lot of them are internet fans, they're probably deliberately scheduling it first. That's why NXT has taken it slow and steady. You have to wait for AEW to wear out its welcome a bit.



optikk sucks said:


> jeez 😱


Why would you post a graph that shows a downward trend? Haha.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

And remember guys, the ratings are flawed and there is a ten percent discrepancy like @The Wood used to say.
So actually AEW has completely demolished NXT.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

rbl85 said:


> The funny thing is that NXT did nearly 0 commercials during the show (they want to beat AEW so bad that they cut off the commercials XD), so the advertisers made nearly no money last night XD


You realize that the limited commercials were sponsored by Mtn Dew? They paid to be the sponsor of the show, which is not cheap. Whenever you would watch a WWE PPV and the opening would say brought to you by Stridex, or the Snickers Slam of the Week; those are all premiums paid for by those sponsors to have their name and logo mentioned on national television.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> And remember guys, the ratings are flawed and there is a ten percent discrepancy like @The Wood used to say.
> So actually AEW has completely demolished NXT.


No, there is a 10% margin of error. Not a discrepancy. Get it right. You know where that doesn't help? 538k viewers to 852k viewers for that week Jericho & Cassidy got killed.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Doesn't say nxt makes more money than aew


NXT makes USA Network more revenue than Dynamite does for TNT because its tv-pg and advertisers pay more for a wrestling show thats tv-pg than they do for a tv-14 wrestling show. Its not hard to understand.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> I don't think saying NXT had more viewers is thumping my chest at all, these things don't matter but watching the AEW super fans spin is what I have an issue with


Fair enough. I just sensed a disturbance and was unsure where it was coming from.

And for the record, AEW should take the L on the chin. While the demo is nice and all, deflecting the loss in the total viewership means they still need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

What happened to Jericho’s stance that they just needed to focus on their own show? Thumping that chest over a win in the demo says they’re not quite at the point of realizing there is a problem.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

This is one of the saddest things that I have seen since this 'war' started. He is beginning to sound like a Great Value Bischoff.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> NXT makes USA Network more revenue than Dynamite does for TNT because its tv-pg and advertisers pay more for a wrestling show thats tv-pg than they do for a tv-14 wrestling show. Its not hard to understand.


There's also the possibility that NXT's audience is more diverse. AEW pander to different groups in a socially aware sort of way (and I do applaud them for trying to be "inclusive"), but NXT kind of walks the walk. I haven't done a check since the first couple of shows, but the amount of people they had from such different backgrounds compared to AEW was _staggering_. They had people from basically every continent except Antarctica and I think I counted something like 20 different counties. I'm probably leaving out ancestry and ties, but here are a bunch of the countries that are represented in NXT: 


Australia
Brazil
Canada
China
Croatia
England
Germany
India
Italy
Ireland
Israel
Japan
Lebanon
Mexico
Moldova
New Zealand
Northern Ireland
Philippines
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Scotland
South Korea
Spain
United States
Wales

That's 26. AEW has talent from the US, England, Canada, Portugal, Mexico and Japan. Let's throw in China if you want to count OWE. Now, I'm not saying this is everything, and things obviously go deeper than that, but NXT just has representation down a lot better on that front. That can help them get TV deals in a lot of different counties (which makes sponsorship a lot more valuable), which means more revenue, exposure and a potentially more diverse audience -- especially when the product is just all-round better. Nobody talks about that because it's not as fun as saying "AEW does better in live 18-49 viewers! Advertisers must pay them more!"

It's a lot more layered than that.

Some AEW apologists are happy to factor in DVR and illegal streaming (which seems irrelevant when talking about the bottom-line for advertisers), but have we talked about NXT's international presence versus AEW? You not only have the WWE Network, which is available all around the world, but I just discovered that NXT not only still has a presence on cable over here, but on one of our biggest sports apps (probably the biggest?) in Kayo Sports. It's only got 400k subscribers or so, but when you factor in NXT's global presence, it's not really going to be a contest which is ultimately bigger. I'm fairly certain NXT would have a presence on TV and streaming media all around the world. Mountain Dew just got that exposure, as well as likely being present in more homes than being on AEW would afford them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> There's also the possibility that NXT's audience is more diverse. AEW pander to different groups in a socially aware sort of way (and I do applaud them for trying to be "inclusive"), but NXT kind of walks the walk. I haven't done a check since the first couple of shows, but the amount of people they had from such different backgrounds compared to AEW was _staggering_. They had people from basically every continent except Antarctica and I think I counted something like 20 different counties. I'm probably leaving out ancestry and ties, but here are a bunch of the countries that are represented in NXT:
> 
> 
> Australia
> Brazil
> Canada
> China
> Croatia
> England
> Germany
> India
> Italy
> Ireland
> Israel
> Japan
> Lebanon
> Mexico
> Moldova
> New Zealand
> Northern Ireland
> Philippines
> Romania
> Russia
> Saudi Arabia
> Scotland
> South Korea
> Spain
> United States
> Wales
> That's 26. AEW has talent from the US, England, Canada, Portugal, Mexico and Japan. Let's throw in China if you want to count OWE. Now, I'm not saying this is everything, and things obviously go deeper than that, but NXT just has representation down a lot better on that front. That can help them get TV deals in a lot of different counties (which makes sponsorship a lot more valuable), which means more revenue, exposure and a potentially more diverse audience -- especially when the product is just all-round better. Nobody talks about that because it's not as fun as saying "AEW does better in live 18-49 viewers! Advertisers must pay them more!"
> 
> It's a lot more layered than that.


Yup. I've brought this up before and was shouted down because apparently this thread is all about the domestic rating.

If you want to go ahead and count NXT's ratings from around the world up and compare it to the international number AEW does you'd have NXT winning by huge numbers which means more money for sponsors, more money for in show commercials (It's now an international commercial as opposed to a domestic one) and all sorts of other positive shit.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup. I've brought this up before and was shouted down because apparently this thread is all about the domestic rating.
> 
> If you want to go ahead and count NXT's ratings from around the world up and compare it to the international number AEW does you'd have NXT winning by huge numbers which means more money for sponsors, more money for in show commercials (It's now an international commercial as opposed to a domestic one) and all sorts of other positive shit.


I mean I do get comparing the US domestic rating to the US domestic rating in the sense that these are both US companies, and their international reach is going to be affected by how well they do in their domestic setting, but everything you just said is correct. NXT is spread across a lot of different markets in a lot of different places.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Chatter starting to make the rounds on Twitter is Cole/Lee did 995,000 and Jericho/OC did 675,000.


----------



## fabi1982

NXT Only said:


> Dude found 2019 information lol. Learn how to use the internet old man.


Then please enlighten me with a link to this years numbers where it says 350k, if you are so damn good


----------



## Ozell Gray

Bloody Warpath said:


> Chatter starting to make the rounds on Twitter is Cole/Lee did 995,000 and Jericho/OC did 675,000.


Where on twitter did you see that?


----------



## bdon

Bloody Warpath said:


> Chatter starting to make the rounds on Twitter is Cole/Lee did 995,000 and Jericho/OC did 675,000.


B-b-b-but...Jericho and The Draw!?!?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hephaesteus said:


> *suits was leaving regardless, that show was leaking castmembers like crazy at the end. So thats a bit of an unfair thing to say*
> 
> 
> You're right, tony can do what he wants. Still looks stupid as fuck for the owner of a company to justify his show to mouth-breathers on twitter. Not only does it make him look desperate, but hes not gonna convert enough people over to justify anything.


I’m just saying that is the rating they would have been expecting in that slot?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

btw this is why fox and USA must be happy.


----------



## bdon

Bloody Warpath said:


> Chatter starting to make the rounds on Twitter is Cole/Lee did 995,000 and Jericho/OC did 675,000.


Also making the rounds is that AEW won the first 4 quarters and lost the last 4 quarters, which falls in line with what I said about the first hour being awesome with a nosedive after that.

They really, really need help formatting their show.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

all shows have lost viewership. NXT is booming in the "other" category.

RAW has suffered the most.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Here’s the updated demo comparison from @wrestlenomics on Twitter.
> 
> AEW +73% on p18-34 this week what the fuck lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeez 😱


Smackdown and Dynamite touching tips soon on dat dere KEY DEMO


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Smackdown and Dynamite touching tips soon on dat dere KEY DEMO


and that's not even because Dynamite is going up. That's because SD is dropping significantly. Same with RAW.

glad to see NXT having two demos where there's been an increase (boomers and kids). But possibly at the cost of turning away the 18-34 year old males.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> and that's not even because Dynamite is going up. That's because SD is dropping significantly. Same with RAW.
> 
> glad to see NXT having two demos where there's been an increase (boomers and kids). But possibly at the cost of turning away the 18-34 year old males.


Those 2-17 will turn into new fans though - which is good for them and WWE

plus, as you’ve shown - not exactly like Fox will be crying over the latest Smackdown numbers

in the end, the WWE is where its always been - in a good place


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Those 2-17 will turn into new fans though - which is good for them and WWE
> 
> plus, as you’ve shown - not exactly like Fox will be crying over the latest Smackdown numbers
> 
> in the end, the WWE is where its always been - in a good place












I like this presentation as well. Majority of NXT viewership comes from the kids and from boomers. AEW has the highest ratios of the 18-49 populations. Seems like they really have been able to attract some lost viewers from the MNW era.


----------



## The Wood

Bloody Warpath said:


> Chatter starting to make the rounds on Twitter is Cole/Lee did 995,000 and Jericho/OC did 675,000.


Holy fucking shit if that is the case.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Holy fucking shit if that is the case.


"This proves nothing. Cole/Lee was always going to win anyway"


----------



## The Wood

They will surely not be able to deny any longer.

Even with the 10% margin of error completely favouring AEW, that would be 896k to 743k. That's a fucking onslaught. That's pro-wrestling kicking sports entertainment with its hands in its pockets.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Even with the 10% margin of error completely favouring AEW, that would be 896k to 743k. That's a fucking onslaught. That's pro-wrestling kicking sports entertainment with its hands in its pockets.


Well at least the AEW fans can laugh at it.


----------



## The Wood

Oh man, if that's the case, I can't wait to hear what Jericho says on Twitter.


----------



## Shaun_27

Bloody Warpath said:


> This is one of the saddest things that I have seen since this 'war' started. He is beginning to sound like a Great Value Bischoff.


One of the most embarrassing moments in wrestling in 2020. Perhaps the only advantage AEW had going for it was goodwill with the fans and being the cool brand. Their reaction to losing the past few weeks is one of the least cool things I can imagine.


----------



## The Wood

Shaun_27 said:


> One of the most embarrassing moments in wrestling in 2020. Perhaps the only advantage AEW had going for it was goodwill with the fans and being the cool brand. Their reaction to losing the past few weeks is one of the least cool things I can imagine.


Fucking right. It's amazing you've got people defending it like it was some sort of great move.

Seriously: The softy in me is coming out now. How must you feel if you're Orange Cassidy? Jericho's had his time in the sun. If he is ordered off the telly tomorrow, he's had a legendary career. He'll disappear, write some shitty rock songs, go back to WWE, whatever. He's not bulletproof, but he's 50 and basically just assing around for millions of dollars and doesn't give a shit. He can afford not to. 

Cassidy? If that rating is true, that is a MASSIVE public humiliation. I know people will say the match was good (it wasn't), but that actually makes it kind of worse. He can "do his best" and still fail that hard with the biggest star in the promotion. His boss probably told him he believed in him, Jericho probably told him they'd do fine, the EVPs probably told him that his gimmick is awesome, he's probably read/heard that from Meltzer and Alvarez. He goes out there and gets SLAUGHTERED. As he should. But the worst thing I can imagine these fuckers facing is the realisation that, at the end of the day, everything Jim Cornette said about them was right, hahaha. How does your ego come back from that?

I have to remember that the dude shat all over wrestling. He didn't give a fuck if he mocked it and how many dudes that have thrown their lives into this he pisses on by making a parody of it. He's an absolute cunt in the wrestling context. Fuck him. He should go away forever. But maybe as a person he gives to charity, helps little old ladies and is a nice dude. He could just be wrestling ignorant. And he, in his mind, has poured himself into this and he has to find out so publicly that he fucking sucks and no one wants to watch him. Not really. 

Oh man. Like, what are his "friends" going to tell him? "Don't worry about it, man." Nah, he's been exposed, and they put him out there to get eaten by those lions. It's got to sting pretty fucking hard. 

That's if this rating is true. It might be overblown or whatever. But that wouldn't be surprising given what their brawl segment did.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Remember, Triple H knew all along that NXT would eventually consistently beat AEW.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> View attachment 88646
> 
> 
> Remember, Triple H knew all along that NXT would eventually consistently beat AEW.


Triple H got mocked mercilessly for that. And so did I for pointing out that it makes sense. They were never going to beat AEW with its mobilised fans out the gate. You had to wait for them to book themselves into oblivion and let egos get the best of things. Looks like that’s starting to happen now.

By the way — and I know bringing him up always gets people’s backs up, but it’s just the truth in this case — Cornette was another guy that had no doubt this would happen.

Over time, the better content ultimately wins out, all things being equal. That’s not to say MLW will automatically start beating AEW from their platform on BeIn Sports, haha. It just means that AEW is getting puffed and now they’re trying to say that the distance they’ve already run so quickly is the real race.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Jim Cornette knew all along that NXT was going to consistently win and he called it last year and AEW fanboys mocked him for saying it and called him old and out of touch.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t know how you can say anyone else is out of touch if you that many viewers for a main event.


----------



## Dizzie

If one thing is clear in the past few days is that there are few pretenders in here that have well and truly unveiled themselves as obvious pro wwe and completely anti aew.

The product from aew is imo at its lowest right now and deserve criticism but those certain pretenders are having an absolute orgasm over that fact with their relentless amount of unbalanced and unhinged spite filled attacks of the product to the most smallest and irrelevant detail.


----------



## Swan-San

Fingers crossed the rumours are true


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> If one thing is clear in the past few days is that there are few pretenders in here that have well and truly unveiled themselves as obvious pro wwe and completely anti aew.
> 
> The product from aew is imo at its lowest right now and deserve criticism but those certain pretenders are having an absolute orgasm over that fact with their relentless amount of unbalanced and unhinged spite filled attacks of the product to the most smallest and irrelevant detail.


It’s possible to enjoy the schadenfreude and apologists kind of having to face the music without being “pro-WWE.” It’s fine to be critical of both companies.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rexmundi said:


> NXT won total viewers for the third week in a row which is their most consecutive wins ever. They did lose in every single demo across the board save the 50+. For those keeping track, the cumulative scoreboard is 31-8-1 for AEW in total viewers and 39-1 in the 18-49 demo. It will be interesting to see if NXT can keep their total viewer mojo going because the demo doesn't seem likely to happen soon. Both shows lost 33,000 total viewers and each dropped slightly in the demo.


They will, The boomer WWE internet fans found out Vince is running NXT, bought their Robert Stone merch, and are comfortably wearing their MAGA hats every Wednesday night.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dizzie said:


> If one thing is clear in the past few days is that there are few pretenders in here that have well and truly unveiled themselves as obvious pro wwe and completely anti aew.
> 
> The product from aew is imo at its lowest right now and deserve criticism but those certain pretenders are having an absolute orgasm over that fact with their relentless amount of unbalanced and unhinged spite filled attacks of the product to the most smallest and irrelevant detail.


Yes, because if you want AEW to get a deservedly shit rating in hopes that things finally click and they make changes you MUST be a WWE fan.

I haven't watched WWE regularly since 2006 when I was a teenager. I am pleased AEW lost this week because they deserve to. If their main event got beat by NXT's main event by 300,000+ then that's great because maybe they'll finally move the comedy goof that I've been against being a main eventer for weeks out of the top position and give it to someone deserving.

That's why I'm having an "absolute orgasm" over them losing. Because they don't deserve to win. No anti AEW bias about it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> View attachment 88646
> 
> 
> Remember, Triple H knew all along that NXT would eventually consistently beat AEW.


Cool, let me know when they start beating them. It hasnt happened since 12/18.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Cool, let me know when they start beating them. It hasnt happened since 12/18.


Are you guys really going to hang your hat on a 0.03 demographic win?

You lost. Be a man about it instead of a child going "NUH UH I DINT LOSE"


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are you guys really going to hang your hat on a 0.03 demographic win?
> 
> You lost. Be a man about it instead of a child going "NUH UH I DINT LOSE"


Agreed, but that’s the nature of the beast. When AEW was winning weeks on end, even @The Wood was championing a 10% margin of error and refusing to just tip his hat to AEW for the win.

NXT deserved the W. Good on them for staying the course, not mailing it in like AEW has been doing for months, and finally paying the piper.

Hopefully AEW stops bullshitting and takes itself serious again.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are you guys really going to hang your hat on a 0.03 demographic win?
> 
> You lost. Be a man about it instead of a child going "NUH UH I DINT LOSE"


No, it was actually a large win, 7th vs 24th.

For years and years you WWE fans have hung your hat on "Raw was #1 on Monday Nights again" but now that another company uses that exact same info, it is meaningless.


----------



## Garty

I'm just going to leave this here for everyone to argue over. I thought this thread needed some life put back into it. 

As part of PWInsider's daily mailbag Q&A, Mike Johnson replied to a question, about viewers vs demos, answering which is the more successful and coveted of the two "markers" from a company perspective. The answer is:

_From a network perspective, I can tell you that the demographics are more important. Everyone wants to win when they are in competition, but for a network, the demographics are far more important as that is the data that they deliver and promise to advertisers, who want to know that their products are seen by the highly desired younger audience. AEW on Wednesday night was #7 for the evening in the 18-34 demo - and also tops in LOTS of other demos this week) - and I can tell you that from speaking to a lot of sources at Warner Media, they absolutely love AEW's performance and do so much that there's been a lot of talk in recent weeks about developing other ways to link AEW with additional corners of Warner properties.

Anyone who dismisses the demo numbers is either uneducated to their importance or they are looking for an incorrect way to prove themselves right. If WWE Smackdown is last in the viewership in their timeslot but they win the demo, it's not like FOX is going to look at the series as failing that week - and it's not like WWE would then bemoan that Smackdown was in last place vs. NBC, ABC, CBS, etc. The argument that AEW is "doing bad" in, in any way, is just plain silly and not rooted in reality.

As far as the overnight audience, it is important for bragging rights but it's also an outdated way of looking at things. For fans indoctrinated in the way we all used to track Raw vs. Nitro, it's silly to act like it's 1995. The overnight numbers are different now. Unless there is access to the +3 and +7 numbers via DVR viewing (which we don't have access to) and streaming #s, we don't know the final audience levels for the shows. So, the overnight numbers don't tell the story on viewership the way they did decades ago._

 Okay, your turn now...


----------



## the_hound

all of a sudden demos matter..............


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_hound said:


> all of a sudden demos matter..............


Your post is number 6,803 on this thread

feel free to scroll right to the beginning - and even look up thread one where we have been discussing demos for ages


----------



## Bloody Warpath

What has become of Jericho? Austin had already said in his thread what the numbers were. This has honestly moved to the Sad side of the scale with he and Tony Tweeting as much as they have.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If AEW wins an Emmy before WWE, it will be really funny


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281606236249587713


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If AEW wins an Emmy before WWE, it will be really funny
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281606236249587713


I would hope that everyone understands the hatred I have for WWE, HHH, and Vince McMahon, but the fact they don’t have an Emmy is BS and should tell everyone what the world really thinks of wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I would hope that everyone understands the hatred I have for WWE, HHH, and Vince McMahon, but the fact they don’t have an Emmy is BS and should tell everyone what the world really thinks of wrestling.


Very true / they‘ve done enough good stuff over the years to merit it

Daniel Bryans’ story alone = all the emmys

Anybody think this is an indication that Daily’s Place could also seat 25% in the future?

Or maybe a stadium show in TIAA at some point? Just to get some fans in? Would that even work?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281614285697945601


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Bloody Warpath said:


> View attachment 88652
> 
> 
> What has become of Jericho? Austin had already said in his thread what the numbers were. This has honestly moved to the Sad side of the scale with he and Tony Tweeting as much as they have.


Either he's been completely brainwashed by these idiots and believes the chatter or he's playing the game and being smart. Stick around, be a shill for the company, make friends with Tony Khan and when your 3 year deal is done you get signed back up again as a commentator, occasional wrestler or backstage worker on big money.

I guarantee many wrestlers (Especially the veterans) would all be working Tony Khan. We are in for an absolute treat once guys like JR, Jericho, Tony, Arn, Jake, Tully etc are released from AEW and start talking about what's really going on.

Since 1995 it's been all about the overall rating but suddenly in 2020 when AEW starts losing the overall rating demographic suddenly matters. It's a joke.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Main event ratings
NXT: 922,000 viewers (355,000 Demo)
AEW: 675,000 viewers (362,000 demo)
Jericho and OC was and is NOT A DRAW and there’s very little space between those demo numbers.
NXT is coming for the demo


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Anybody think this is an indication that Daily’s Place could also seat 25% in the future?
> 
> Or maybe a stadium show in TIAA at some point? Just to get some fans in? Would that even work?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281614285697945601


I did mention about that possibility last night, but can't remember which thread it was?! 

Here it is, but I don't know if the post # is the same if you or I have different users on ignore?



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Your post is number 6,803 on this thread
> 
> feel free to scroll right to the beginning - and even look up thread one where we have been discussing demos for ages


And poof, just like that, he doesn't matter either.


----------



## rexmundi

The demo always matters. I remember a few years ago, CBS ran commercial for being the #1 network because they had the most total viewers, albeit a much older audience. At the same time,NBC won the demo and claimed to be the #1 network.Both claimed victory, but I'm pretty sure the industry regatded NBC as the #1 network then. Good for NXT killing AEW in total viewers in their main event, but good for AEW still winning the demo in every quarter of the show. And that is undisputed. LOL


----------



## zkorejo

Ozell Gray said:


> Main event ratings
> NXT: 922,000 viewers (355,000 Demo)
> AEW: 675,000 viewers (362,000 demo)
> Jericho and OC was and is NOT A DRAW and there’s very little space between those demo numbers.
> NXT is coming for the demo


Cmon man.. OC vs Jericho wasnt even supposed to be their main event. No titles were involved, this was OC's first mainevent singles match ever. On the other hand Keith Lee vs Cole was for the NA and NXT title, with Lee dethroning the longest reigning NXT champion. That was a Takeover quality match with big stakes on free TV without ads.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW: 675,000 viewers (*362,000 *demo)


There are 138.2 million adults aged 18-49 in the USA and 362'000 of those watched AEW. This is really what Jericho, Khan and the AEW fans here are bragging about?


----------



## rexmundi

Ozell Gray said:


> Main event ratings
> NXT: 922,000 viewers (355,000 Demo)
> AEW: 675,000 viewers (362,000 demo)
> Jericho and OC was and is NOT A DRAW and there’s very little space between those demo numbers.
> NXT is coming for the demo


I don't see them coming for AEW in the demo anytime soon. In the first six quarters, AEW won in the demo by 776,000 which is an average of 129.33 K for every quarter. NXT did close stronger in the final two quarters, finishing only a combined 45,000 behind. So the question is can NXT replicate and build on those final two quarters to erase their demo deficit for the entire show because they have lost 39 out of 40 shows thus far. And we'll see if AEW can right their total viewership numbers or will NXT winning those become the "new normal".


----------



## K4L318

optikk sucks said:


> Here’s the updated demo comparison from @wrestlenomics on Twitter.
> 
> AEW +73% on p18-34 this week what the fuck lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeez 😱


I got a 3 day weekend dem numbers and my post got more clout than any shit here.


----------



## shadow_spinner

A 247K edge in total viewership is more impressive than a 7K edge in the demo IMO.

I keep reading how the demo is the big thing and that's what the network pays attention to.

But if it is 355k vs 362k in a demo, I'm guessing network executives are still like "whatever". I imagine you have to trounce the competition to make it a big deal.



MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I feel like the no crowds benefits NXT more since they were in a smaller arena anyways. AEW feels bigger with the crowds. When this covid stuff dies down and the crowds come back AEW will most likely steamroll them


Also NXT pushes guys like Kross and Lumis who do better in silence. AEW pushing OC in the main event when he is a guy who is reliant on a crowd more than anyone. Having a crowd go crazy for what he does makes him and his segment more bigger than it is.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

rexmundi said:


> I don't see them coming for AEW in the demo anytime soon. In the first six quarters, AEW won in the demo by 776,000 which is an average of 129.33 K for every quarter. NXT did close stronger in the final two quarters, finishing only a combined 45,000 behind. So the question is can NXT replicate and build on those final two quarters to erase their demo deficit for the entire show because they have lost 39 out of 40 shows thus far. And we'll see if AEW can right their total viewership numbers or will NXT winning those become the "new normal".


To be fair, due to the antiquity that is the Nielson system, that number is represented by just a handful of boxes.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The problem with the main event rating for AEW is not that the main event was poor or that OC doesn't have appeal-- it's that they drove off half their audience since their debut with the progressive politics (while trying to build a wrestling-oriented show that can only appeal to those conservative sports viewers), and during the course of the last month they have driven off almost 200k more of their viewers with Dark Order, Cabana, Abadon, Kiss, etc; and during the course of Wed's episode they drove off tens of thousands of viewers during the course of the night. So by the time we get to Jericho vs OC (which is about a year too soon for pulling the trigger on the guy for a Jericho main event), you're down to the core AEW faithful and Jerichoholics. You can put God vs Satan in the main event, but it's not going to make the number jump if the mainstream can't stomach the first 90 minutes of the show.



Pippen94 said:


> Gay & trans aren't families?


Don't be cute. Family friendly means not inserting adult sexual concepts, themes and narratives into the product. Parents don't want to explain to their seven year old that gay means two guys touching their junk together and docking into the other's foreskin if they're uncircumcized when the seven year old doesn't even know what hetero sex is or why adults have sex at all.


----------



## bdon

shadow_spinner said:


> A 247K edge in total viewership is more impressive than a 7K edge in the demo IMO.
> 
> I keep reading how the demo is the big thing and that's what the network pays attention to.
> 
> But if it is 355k vs 362k in a demo, I'm guessing network executives are still like "whatever". I imagine you have to trounce the competition to make it a big deal.


Other than the main event, where did anyone win by 247k..?


----------



## shadow_spinner

The Wood said:


> There's also the possibility that NXT's audience is more diverse. AEW pander to different groups in a socially aware sort of way (and I do applaud them for trying to be "inclusive"), but NXT kind of walks the walk. I haven't done a check since the first couple of shows, but the amount of people they had from such different backgrounds compared to AEW was _staggering_. They had people from basically every continent except Antarctica and I think I counted something like 20 different counties. I'm probably leaving out ancestry and ties, but here are a bunch of the countries that are represented in NXT:
> 
> 
> Australia
> Brazil
> Canada
> China
> Croatia
> England
> Germany
> India
> Italy
> Ireland
> Israel
> Japan
> Lebanon
> Mexico
> Moldova
> New Zealand
> Northern Ireland
> Philippines
> Romania
> Russia
> Saudi Arabia
> Scotland
> South Korea
> Spain
> United States
> Wales
> That's 26. AEW has talent from the US, England, Canada, Portugal, Mexico and Japan. Let's throw in China if you want to count OWE. Now, I'm not saying this is everything, and things obviously go deeper than that, but NXT just has representation down a lot better on that front. That can help them get TV deals in a lot of different counties (which makes sponsorship a lot more valuable), which means more revenue, exposure and a potentially more diverse audience -- especially when the product is just all-round better. Nobody talks about that because it's not as fun as saying "AEW does better in live 18-49 viewers! Advertisers must pay them more!"
> 
> It's a lot more layered than that.
> 
> Some AEW apologists are happy to factor in DVR and illegal streaming (which seems irrelevant when talking about the bottom-line for advertisers), but have we talked about NXT's international presence versus AEW? You not only have the WWE Network, which is available all around the world, but I just discovered that NXT not only still has a presence on cable over here, but on one of our biggest sports apps (probably the biggest?) in Kayo Sports. It's only got 400k subscribers or so, but when you factor in NXT's global presence, it's not really going to be a contest which is ultimately bigger. I'm fairly certain NXT would have a presence on TV and streaming media all around the world. Mountain Dew just got that exposure, as well as likely being present in more homes than being on AEW would afford them.





optikk sucks said:


> all shows have lost viewership. NXT is booming in the "other" category.
> 
> RAW has suffered the most.


 Why don't women watch AEW?


----------



## Bloody Warpath

shadow_spinner said:


> Why don't women watch AEW?


It is a good question. If you recall seeing their live audience way back when you could still do so, you notice that their audience has very little diversity.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

shadow_spinner said:


> Why don't women watch AEW?


it's geared towards males. that's a fact. nobody can disagree with this.

AEW should try and get more women watching because that'll not only help with the overall rating, but also the demo.


----------



## shadow_spinner

optikk sucks said:


> it's geared towards males. that's a fact. nobody can disagree with this.
> 
> AEW should try and get more women watching because that'll not only help with the overall rating, but also the demo.


They should book their women better and more often. The women have been proven to gain viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

shadow_spinner said:


> They should book their women better and more often. The women have been proven to gain viewers.


but do they bring in females? or does the drama and soap aspect? think lashley lana ruses. not a good example, but it's the most recent.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I've been beating this drum about demographic expansion for months. You can't force your rating higher by trying to get every single, white dude in America. You have to put women's wrestling on to get women viewers. You have to push Fenix into main event status to get Latino viewers. You have to make something of Sky or sign a black wrestler that is a draw for black viewers if you want black viewers. And you have to stop pushing away families with the forced cursing and the femboy sexualism.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Jim Cornette knew all along that NXT was going to consistently win and he called it last year and AEW fanboys mocked him for saying it and called him old and out of touch.


He also claims nxt is the young ppl's brand... & also pressures wrestlers to be with his wife


----------



## K4L318

shadow_spinner said:


> A 247K edge in total viewership is more impressive than a 7K edge in the demo IMO.
> 
> I keep reading how the demo is the big thing and that's what the network pays attention to.
> 
> But if it is 355k vs 362k in a demo, I'm guessing network executives are still like "whatever". I imagine you have to trounce the competition to make it a big deal.


dat the main event fool 😂


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> There's also the possibility that NXT's audience is more diverse. AEW pander to different groups in a socially aware sort of way (and I do applaud them for trying to be "inclusive"), but NXT kind of walks the walk. I haven't done a check since the first couple of shows, but the amount of people they had from such different backgrounds compared to AEW was _staggering_. They had people from basically every continent except Antarctica and I think I counted something like 20 different counties. I'm probably leaving out ancestry and ties, but here are a bunch of the countries that are represented in NXT:
> 
> 
> Australia
> Brazil
> Canada
> China
> Croatia
> England
> Germany
> India
> Italy
> Ireland
> Israel
> Japan
> Lebanon
> Mexico
> Moldova
> New Zealand
> Northern Ireland
> Philippines
> Romania
> Russia
> Saudi Arabia
> Scotland
> South Korea
> Spain
> United States
> Wales
> That's 26. AEW has talent from the US, England, Canada, Portugal, Mexico and Japan. Let's throw in China if you want to count OWE. Now, I'm not saying this is everything, and things obviously go deeper than that, but NXT just has representation down a lot better on that front. That can help them get TV deals in a lot of different counties (which makes sponsorship a lot more valuable), which means more revenue, exposure and a potentially more diverse audience -- especially when the product is just all-round better. Nobody talks about that because it's not as fun as saying "AEW does better in live 18-49 viewers! Advertisers must pay them more!"
> 
> It's a lot more layered than that.
> 
> Some AEW apologists are happy to factor in DVR and illegal streaming (which seems irrelevant when talking about the bottom-line for advertisers), but have we talked about NXT's international presence versus AEW? You not only have the WWE Network, which is available all around the world, but I just discovered that NXT not only still has a presence on cable over here, but on one of our biggest sports apps (probably the biggest?) in Kayo Sports. It's only got 400k subscribers or so, but when you factor in NXT's global presence, it's not really going to be a contest which is ultimately bigger. I'm fairly certain NXT would have a presence on TV and streaming media all around the world. Mountain Dew just got that exposure, as well as likely being present in more homes than being on AEW would afford them.


Only one thing certain - nxt audience is older


----------



## RapShepard

NXT Only said:


> Their live tv viewership is down but again accounting for other sources of viewership their numbers are right where they were. So again their viewership isn’t down, it’s just spread out. Simple.


This logic makes no sense. What you're trying to do is go "well if you count the ratings viewers, live streams, VOD, and illegal streams it adds up to the 1.4 million from the first couple weeks". But this is flawed because what you're not doing is discussing the live streams, VOD, and illegal streams from the first couple weeks


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> but do they bring in females? or does the drama and soap aspect? think lashley lana ruses. not a good example, but it's the most recent.


No evidence female fans prefer women's wrestling over men



Mister Sinister said:


> The problem with the main event rating for AEW is not that the main event was poor or that OC doesn't have appeal-- it's that they drove off half their audience since their debut with the progressive politics (while trying to build a wrestling-oriented show that can only appeal to those conservative sports viewers), and during the course of the last month they have driven off almost 200k more of their viewers with Dark Order, Cabana, Abadon, Kiss, etc; and during the course of Wed's episode they drove off tens of thousands of viewers during the course of the night. So by the time we get to Jericho vs OC (which is about a year too soon for pulling the trigger on the guy for a Jericho main event), you're down to the core AEW faithful and Jerichoholics. You can put God vs Satan in the main event, but it's not going to make the number jump if the mainstream can't stomach the first 90 minutes of the show.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be cute. Family friendly means not inserting adult sexual concepts, themes and narratives into the product. Parents don't want to explain to their seven year old that gay means two guys touching their junk together and docking into the other's foreskin if they're uncircumcized when the seven year old doesn't even know what hetero sex is or why adults have sex at all.


Nothing aew is doing would lead to that type of conversation.
Also you know there's gay parents these days?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> No evidence female fans prefer women's wrestling over men


yeah i didn't think so

females are still watching kardashians and garbage reality shows


----------



## Pippen94

the_hound said:


> all of a sudden demos matter..............


It's more like wrestling fans finally learning about demos



Ozell Gray said:


> Main event ratings
> NXT: 922,000 viewers (355,000 Demo)
> AEW: 675,000 viewers (362,000 demo)
> Jericho and OC was and is NOT A DRAW and there’s very little space between those demo numbers.
> NXT is coming for the demo


Nxt shot their load & still finished with low demo - doesn't look good going forward



Chip Chipperson said:


> Either he's been completely brainwashed by these idiots and believes the chatter or he's playing the game and being smart. Stick around, be a shill for the company, make friends with Tony Khan and when your 3 year deal is done you get signed back up again as a commentator, occasional wrestler or backstage worker on big money.
> 
> I guarantee many wrestlers (Especially the veterans) would all be working Tony Khan. We are in for an absolute treat once guys like JR, Jericho, Tony, Arn, Jake, Tully etc are released from AEW and start talking about what's really going on.
> 
> Since 1995 it's been all about the overall rating but suddenly in 2020 when AEW starts losing the overall rating demographic suddenly matters. It's a joke.


It's not 1995 anymore - you know that explains a lot of what you post actually


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> He also claims nxt is the young ppl's brand... & also pressures wrestlers to be with his wife


Dynamite's median age is 47 while NXT's 58 which means AEW are ttracting an older audience as well its just younger than NXT's.



Pippen94 said:


> Nxt shot their load & still finished with low demo - doesn't look good going forward


Dynamite's rating was 0.28 while NXT's was a 0.20 which is only a 0.8 difference. Thats not a big gap infact its a small one and lets not forget Dynamite lost majority of their rating already. It went from 0.68 to 0.27 average rating.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite's median age is 47 while NXT's 58 which means AEW are ttracting an older audience as well its just younger than NXT's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dynamite's rating was 0.28 while NXT's was a 0.20 which is only a 0.8 difference. Thats not a big gap infact its a small one and lets not forget Dynamite lost majority of their rating already. It went from 0.68 to 0.27 average rating.


Across all demos aew's is younger - go look at stats.
Gap in demo difference between a top 10 show & one which regularly finishes towards or over 50th spot.
Despite hotshot booking nxt score in demo hasn't moved much - show can't grow younger viewers


----------



## Not Lying

Pippen94 said:


> No evidence female fans prefer women's wrestling over men


I mean, it's not that far fetched. Do you not see the amount of young female audience (say age 7-12) WWE has that loves the likes of Becky, Sasha, Bliss..? It's a big number, and while they may be young for the "demo", having good female wrestlers they can look up to is def a way to get more female viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> I mean, it's not that far fetched. Do you not see the amount of young female audience (say age 7-12) WWE has that loves the likes of Becky, Sasha, Bliss..? It's a big number, and while they may be young for the "demo", having good female wrestlers they can look up to is def a way to get more female viewers.


they are not the target demo. 

they need to attract 18-49 females. that's what is letting them down from reaching the top 5










I mean look at this. AEW are #3 in male 18-49
and compare the female demo.

Target females 18-49 SOMEHOW. do something. Look at what draws in the females. Real Housewives and cooking shows. Surely AEW can replicate this somehow.


----------



## Pippen94

The Definition of Technician said:


> I mean, it's not that far fetched. Do you not see the amount of young female audience (say age 7-12) WWE has that loves the likes of Becky, Sasha, Bliss..? It's a big number, and while they may be young for the "demo", having good female wrestlers they can look up to is def a way to get more female viewers.


It was basis for crush gals boom in 1980's japan, however TV ratings don't show anything like this today. If you look at sport women prefer men's to women's


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Pippen94 said:


> It's not 1995 anymore - you know that explains a lot of what you post actually


For real.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Across all demos aew's is younger - go look at stats.
> Gap in demo difference between a top 10 show & one which regularly finishes towards or over 50th spot.
> Despite hotshot booking nxt score in demo hasn't moved much - show can't grow younger viewers


I did and heres what I found 




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/home88


So AEW's viewers are old as well they're not young and are only 11 years apart from NXT's.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> they are not the target demo.
> 
> they need to attract 18-49 females. that's what is letting them down from reaching the top 5


Even if it's not, improving the women's division and getting these girls someone to look up like Becky/Sasha is investing in them when they're young to profit of them later.



Pippen94 said:


> It was basis for crush gals boom in 1980's japan, however TV ratings don't show anything like this today. If you look at sport women prefer men's to women's


That's not my point again. 
On average, the quality of male sports is more athletic and more impressive than women's, so it will draw more..If a female is interested in sports, like actual sports.. and then of course you have the element of top sport guys like Cristiano Ronaldo having female fans not just for their talents.

In wrestling, you have the elements of characters and storytelling added to it. You have stories to tell and make people relate to. Give these young girls someone like Becky/Sasha they can dress as and look up to.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> Even if it's not, improving the women's division and getting these girls someone to look up like Becky/Sasha is investing in them when they're young to profit of them later.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not my point again.
> On average, the quality of male sports is more athletic and more impressive than women's, so it will draw more..If a female is interested in sports, like actual sports.. and then of course you have the element of top sport guys like Cristiano Ronaldo having female fans not just for their talents.
> 
> In wrestling, you have the elements of characters and storytelling added to it. You have stories to tell and make people relate to. Give these young girls someone like Becky/Sasha they can dress as and look up to.


But what makes you think they will stay fans? Cena generation kids didn’t stay on.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> But what makes you think they will stay fans? Cena generation kids didn’t stay on.


In general, yes. But you know well that a lot of them kids watch actually stick to watching wrestling, they're going to have to do something to improve that demo.
Have more cool guys bring their gf to the shows?


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> I mean look at this. AEW are #3 in male 18-49
> and compare the female demo.
> 
> Target females 18-49 SOMEHOW. do something. Look at what draws in the females. Real Housewives and cooking shows. Surely AEW can replicate this somehow.


You want AEW to start doing cooking segments or shopping segments ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> In general, yes. But you know well that a lot of them kids watch actually stick to watching wrestling, they're going to have to do something to improve that demo.
> Have more cool guys bring their gf to the shows?


Yeah for sure. But then we start attempting to attract the kids, we end up with a product exactly like WWEs.

AEW could hold some focus groups to find out what women want from pro-wrestling. I certainly think some partnerships like HHH/Steph, Edge/Lita etc will get women watching. And have tag team matches, let the women cat fight and whatever. Bring back the sham marriages and soapy shit.
I don’t believe that a women’s revolution will do anything.

Brandi started the heels thing. Maybe do something with that on Dynamite.
Idk but my girl loves kardashians and garbage reality. Bring a sense of that to the show and they’d be killing it.



rbl85 said:


> You want AEW to start doing cooking segments or shopping segments ?


No lol. Read my post above. Partnerships like Edge/Lita, HHH/Steph. They were winners. Very soapy garbage, but attracted women to WWE.


----------



## K4L318

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah for sure. But then we start attempting to attract the kids, we end up with a product exactly like WWEs.
> 
> AEW could hold some focus groups to find out what women want from pro-wrestling. I certainly think some partnerships like HHH/Steph, Edge/Lita etc will get women watching. And have tag team matches, let the women cat fight and whatever. Bring back the sham marriages and soapy shit.
> I don’t believe that a women’s revolution will do anything.
> 
> Brandi started the heels thing. Maybe do something with that on Dynamite.
> Idk but my girl loves kardashians and garbage reality. Bring a sense of that to the show and they’d be killing it.


bruh Brandi is flip da channel. She sexy and is da worst at selling it.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> No lol. Read my post above. Partnerships like Edge/Lita, HHH/Steph. They were winners. Very soapy garbage, but attracted women to WWE.


Will not work today

Also no quarters today, maybe tomorrow if i'm motivated.

All i'll say is that the Bucks/FTR vs Lucha bros and BnB lost viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Will not work today


Why not?



K4L318 said:


> bruh Brandi is flip da channel. She sexy and is da worst at selling it.


i agree with you. Cody/Brandi power couple sounds boring. But they could turn Brodi and Anna jay into a power couple. That would actually be fire.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> i agree with you. Cody/Brandi power couple sounds boring. But they could turn Brodi and Anna jay into a power couple. That would actually be fire.


Maybe the women in question don't want to be used like that ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Maybe the women in question don't want to be used like that ?


But you’re assuming something, now.
What is different to them acting as a girlfriend or wife in a drama or movie?


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> Will not work today
> 
> Also no quarters today, maybe tomorrow if i'm motivated.
> 
> All i'll say is that the Bucks/FTR vs Lucha bros and BnB lost viewers.


I saw the quarters here









411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For Night Two of Fyter Fest and NXT Great American Bash


A ratings breakdown for night two of NXT Great American Bash and AEW Fyter Fest including quarter by quarter and more....




411mania.com







> Q1: Private Party vs. Kenny Omega & Hangman Page – 785,000 viewers, 391,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Joey Janela vs. Lance Archer – 695,000 viewers (down 90,000), 356,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)
> Q3: End of Archer vs. Janela/Darby Allin promo/Taz & Brian Cage interview – 736,000 viewers (up 41,000), 373,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
> Q4: The Young Bucks & FTR vs. The Lucha Bros, The Butcher & The Blade – 735,000 viewers (down 1,000), 379,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
> Q5: Big Swole angle/Nyla Rose squash & promo – 705,000 viewers (down 30,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (down 28,000)
> Q6: SCU vs. Dark Order & Colt Cabana – 692,000 viewers (down 13,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (no change)
> Q7: End of 6-Man Tag/Big Swole Angle/Next week hype – 695,000 viewers (up 3,000), 350,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q8: Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy – 675,000 viewers (down 20,000), 362,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
> 
> And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:
> 
> Q1: Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae – 775,000 viewers, 235,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Yim vs. LeRae – 681,000 viewers (down 94,000), 226,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
> Q3: Bronson Reed vs. Tony Nese/Robert Stone angle – 696,000 viewers (up 15,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)
> Q4: Johnny Gargano vs. Isaiah Scott – 681,000 viewers (down 15,000), 225,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
> Q5: El Legado del Fantasma vs. Breezango & Drake Maverick – 757,000 viewers (up 76,000), 247,000 in 18-49 (up 22,000)
> Q6: Mercedes Martinez vs. Santana Garrett – 741,000 viewers (down 16,000), 257,000 in 18-49 (up 10,000)
> Q7: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 816,000 viewers (up 75,000), 312,000 in 18-49 (up 55,000)
> Q8: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 922,000 viewers (up 106,000), 359,000 in 18-49 (up 47,000)
> 
> AEW had a 0.13 in 12-17 (same as last week), 0.19 in 18-34 (up 21.3%), 0.37 in 35-49 (down 11.7%) and 0.27 in 50+ (down 6.9%). The audience was 69% male in 18-49 and 62.2% male in 12-17. NXT had a 0.11 in 12-17 (up 10.0%), 0.11 in 18-34 (down 4.8%), 0.29 in 35-49 (down 14.2%) and 0.39 in 50+ (down 2.5%). The audience was 63% male in 18-49 and 55.2% male in 12-17.


Thought it was already posted



optikk sucks said:


> Yeah for sure. But then we start attempting to attract the kids, we end up with a product exactly like WWEs.
> 
> AEW could hold some focus groups to find out what women want from pro-wrestling. I *certainly think some partnerships like HHH/Steph, Edge/Lita etc will get women watching. *And have tag team matches, let the women cat fight and whatever. Bring back the sham marriages and soapy shit.
> I don’t believe that a women’s revolution will do anything.
> 
> Brandi started the heels thing. Maybe do something with that on Dynamite.
> Idk but my girl loves kardashians and garbage reality. Bring a sense of that to the show and they’d be killing it.


Yeah If AEW can do stuff like that I wouldn't mind.


----------



## rexmundi

shadow_spinner said:


> A 247K edge in total viewership is more impressive than a 7K edge in the demo IMO.
> 
> I keep reading how the demo is the big thing and that's what the network pays attention to.
> 
> But if it is 355k vs 362k in a demo, I'm guessing network executives are still like "whatever". I imagine you have to trounce the competition to make it a big deal.


You are intentionally focusing on the main event which was close in the demo to obfuscate the overall number. NXT lost by 821,000 in the demo over the whole 8 quarters. I'm more than guessing that network executives look at the whole picture rather than cherry picking a single quarter.


----------



## The Wood

Time to drop some logic on some wilfully ignorant asses.



TKO Wrestling said:


> No, it was actually a large win, 7th vs 24th.
> 
> For years and years you WWE fans have hung your hat on "Raw was #1 on Monday Nights again" but now that another company uses that exact same info, it is meaningless.


The story for years has been WWE’s viewership. No one talks about the demo because it isn’t sexy nor conducive to the “Titan is falling” narrative.

7th vs. 24th highlights what a cunt hair these demos are from each other. A couple of thousand “youngsters” difference moves you around so many places. It also goes to show how archaic cable is for reaching this demo. Do you think an advertiser is going to look at your placement when it fluctuates so much, or do you think they’re going to look at the actual size of that audience, and dig a little deeper? 



Garty said:


> I'm just going to leave this here for everyone to argue over. I thought this thread needed some life put back into it.
> 
> As part of PWInsider's daily mailbag Q&A, Mike Johnson replied to a question, about viewers vs demos, answering which is the more successful and coveted of the two "markers" from a company perspective. The answer is:
> 
> _From a network perspective, I can tell you that the demographics are more important. Everyone wants to win when they are in competition, but for a network, the demographics are far more important as that is the data that they deliver and promise to advertisers, who want to know that their products are seen by the highly desired younger audience. AEW on Wednesday night was #7 for the evening in the 18-34 demo - and also tops in LOTS of other demos this week) - and I can tell you that from speaking to a lot of sources at Warner Media, they absolutely love AEW's performance and do so much that there's been a lot of talk in recent weeks about developing other ways to link AEW with additional corners of Warner properties.
> 
> Anyone who dismisses the demo numbers is either uneducated to their importance or they are looking for an incorrect way to prove themselves right. If WWE Smackdown is last in the viewership in their timeslot but they win the demo, it's not like FOX is going to look at the series as failing that week - and it's not like WWE would then bemoan that Smackdown was in last place vs. NBC, ABC, CBS, etc. The argument that AEW is "doing bad" in, in any way, is just plain silly and not rooted in reality.
> 
> As far as the overnight audience, it is important for bragging rights but it's also an outdated way of looking at things. For fans indoctrinated in the way we all used to track Raw vs. Nitro, it's silly to act like it's 1995. The overnight numbers are different now. Unless there is access to the +3 and +7 numbers via DVR viewing (which we don't have access to) and streaming #s, we don't know the final audience levels for the shows. So, the overnight numbers don't tell the story on viewership the way they did decades ago._
> 
> Okay, your turn now...


No one is saying that demos are completely unimportant. What is debatable is the mythic level of emphasis placed on the “key demo” in 2020 as “young people” move to alternative media. You have Tony Khan and AEW fans basically insulting the audience that is keeping cable afloat. People have also pointed out that success with this demo is hard to measure through Nielsen, and I have pointed out that there are more diverse demos to map in 2020 than the millennials.

The average AEW fan is even _older_ than the 45 year old white male I joked about. It turns out they are 48. Do you think this person appeals to marketers that much? When you think in terms of demos, you ignore so much more of the story — including whether these people are interested in Nike shoes or if they just want their rasslin’. If you want to argue the importance of these demos, you need to show me how they translate to actual business instead of just hypothetical and alleged potential business. I need to see that AEW actually takes a few thousand in the demo win and makes sponsors go “Wow! We NEED to get our product seen with them!” Because I’m calling bullshit on that, and I think the meltdowns from the AEW side supports that. 



Bloody Warpath said:


> View attachment 88652
> 
> 
> What has become of Jericho? Austin had already said in his thread what the numbers were. This has honestly moved to the Sad side of the scale with he and Tony Tweeting as much as they have.


There’s probably a lot of ego involved in this. Jericho thought he was bulletproof. Now he’s finding out that wrestling fans will switch him off if he keeps doing this lazy shit. It’s got to sting when you put on your battle armour, talk a big game (one of the best matches of my career) and have probably advocated this to your boss and you get fucking embarrassed. It makes Jericho look like he has no clue what he is doing.

Keep in mind he is separating Shad Khan from $3 million per year or something too. Jericho’s passion may not be real in 2020, but that money is. There’s a big spotlight on Jericho is he falls flat on his face. If you were paying someone $3 million a year and you found out their headlining performance tanked, you might start asking yourself a bunch of questions about what the fuck is going on there.

People say that Napoleon had a little man complex, even though he really wasn’t that little for the time, but imagine if you could have seen him drunk tweet after Waterloo.



rexmundi said:


> The demo always matters. I remember a few years ago, CBS ran commercial for being the #1 network because they had the most total viewers, albeit a much older audience. At the same time,NBC won the demo and claimed to be the #1 network.Both claimed victory, but I'm pretty sure the industry regatded NBC as the #1 network then. Good for NXT killing AEW in total viewers in their main event, but good for AEW still winning the demo in every quarter of the show. And that is undisputed. LOL


NBC hasn’t been seen as #1 since Seinfeld, Frasier and Friends.



NathanMayberry said:


> There are 138.2 million adults aged 18-49 in the USA and 362'000 of those watched AEW. This is really what Jericho, Khan and the AEW fans here are bragging about?


Yes. They’ve got to brag about something and do something to save face. 362k “young people” will do. What’ll be interesting is what they say when they lose them. ;-)



shadow_spinner said:


> A 247K edge in total viewership is more impressive than a 7K edge in the demo IMO.
> 
> I keep reading how the demo is the big thing and that's what the network pays attention to.
> 
> But if it is 355k vs 362k in a demo, I'm guessing network executives are still like "whatever". I imagine you have to trounce the competition to make it a big deal.


Excellent point. People don’t think about it like this because it isn’t as attractive or simple as them thinking of it like a power level, and that the higher one always wins and that’s that and that’s all an advertiser cares about.

Hell, if you had a choice to market to 100 cool kids and 1000 kids who wait and watch to see what the cool kids get into, which audience would you target? Even though one is ten times smaller, it is going to be far more effective to market to them. AEW apologists absolutely refuse to understand this point and assume that the 1000 is ALWAYS going to be better and nothing else matters but then falling into a magic group as charted by Showbuzz. And you don’t need to win by much, as long as you just place higher on the charts.



shadow_spinner said:


> Why don't women watch AEW?


It’s not a sexy product. Women used to love wrestling, but it’s since turned into such an old, white thing. I’d suggest that it’s a combo of kayfabe being dead, the Attitude era offending sensibilities, the men being less attractive, and even the women’s wrestling being more pandering and off-putting to women instead of empowering or charismatic.

You could do a massive investigation into this. But the culture of the wrestling fan has changed dramatically, that is for sure. Wrestling ran off everyone except the obsessed nerds.



optikk sucks said:


> it's geared towards males. that's a fact. nobody can disagree with this.
> 
> AEW should try and get more women watching because that'll not only help with the overall rating, but also the demo.


Wrestling doesn’t need to be geared towards males.



Pippen94 said:


> He also claims nxt is the young ppl's brand... & also pressures wrestlers to be with his wife


Wtf is this post. I listen to Cornette every week and I’ve never heard him say this. Another lie? Probably.

It’s going to be so fun when NXT start beating AEW in the demos, by the way. With AEW fans hanging their hat on this so hard and acting like it really matters to them, I think that will be where a lot of the fans will just give up on the product. That is why some have been saying the perception of this thing is important from the start. The damage being perceived by AEW being trounced by NXT might be bigger to the brand than it arguably should be. Look at TK and CJ melting down already.



RapShepard said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> This logic makes no sense. What you're trying to do is go "well if you count the ratings viewers, live streams, VOD, and illegal streams it adds up to the 1.4 million from the first couple weeks". But this is flawed because what you're not doing is discussing the live streams, VOD, and illegal streams from the first couple weeks
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. They don’t even know why they are discussing these things in a lot of cases.
Click to expand...


----------



## rexmundi

Bloody Warpath said:


> To be fair, due to the antiquity that is the Nielson system, that number is represented by just a handful of boxes.


That is the system we are stuck with. By the same token, winning by 44,000 total viewers isn't exactly a "crushing victory" , which some here have deemed it, when it's just not an overwhelming amount of Nielsen boxes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Will not work today
> 
> Also no quarters today, maybe tomorrow if i'm motivated.
> 
> All i'll say is that *the Bucks/FTR vs Lucha bros and BnB lost viewers*.


well then.... America is useless


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Time to drop some logic on some wilfully ignorant asses.
> 
> 
> 
> The story for years has been WWE’s viewership. No one talks about the demo because it isn’t sexy nor conducive to the “Titan is falling” narrative.
> 
> 7th vs. 24th highlights what a cunt hair these demos are from each other. A couple of thousand “youngsters” difference moves you around so many places. It also goes to show how archaic cable is for reaching this demo. Do you think an advertiser is going to look at your placement when it fluctuates so much, or do you think they’re going to look at the actual size of that audience, and
> 
> 
> 
> No one is saying that demos are completely unimportant. What is debatable is the mythic level of emphasis placed on the “key demo” in 2020 as “young people” move to alternative media. You have Tony Khan and AEW fans basically insulting the audience that is keeping cable afloat. People have also pointed out that success with this demo is hard to measure through Nielsen, and I have pointed out that there are more diverse demos to map in 2020 than the millennials.
> 
> The average AEW fan is even _older_ than the 45 year old white male I joked about. It turns out they are 48. Do you think this person appeals to marketers that much? When you think in terms of demos, you ignore so much more of the story — including whether these people are interested in Nike shoes or if they just want their rasslin’. If you want to argue the importance of these demos, you need to show me how they translate to actual business instead of just hypothetical and alleged potential business. I need to see that AEW actually takes a few thousand in the demo win and makes sponsors go “Wow! We NEED to get our product seen with them!” Because I’m calling bullshit on that, and I think the meltdown
> 
> 
> 
> There’s probably a lot of ego involved in this. Jericho thought he was bulletproof. Now he’s finding out that wrestling fans will switch him off if he keeps doing this lazy shit. It’s got to sting when you put on your battle armour, talk a big game (one of the best matches of my career) and have probably advocated this to your boss and you get fucking embarrassed. It makes Jericho look like he has no clue what he is doing.
> 
> Keep in mind he is separating Shad Khan from $3 million per year or something too. Jericho’s passion may not be real in 2020, but that money is. There’s a big spotlight on Jericho is he falls flat on his face. If you were paying someone $3 million a year and you found out their headlining performance tanked, you might start asking yourself a bunch of questions about what the fuck is going on there.
> 
> People say that Napoleon had a little man complex, even though he really wasn’t that little for the time, but imagine if you could have seen him drunk tweet after Waterloo.
> 
> 
> 
> NBC hasn’t been seen as #1 since Seinfeld, Frasier and Friends.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. They’ve got to brag about something and do something to save face. 362k “young people” will do. What’ll be interesting is what they say when they lose them. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent point. People don’t think about it like this because it isn’t as attractive or simple as them thinking of it like a power level, and that the higher one always wins and that’s that and that’s all an advertiser cares about.
> 
> Hell, if you had a choice to market to 100 cool kids and 1000 kids who wait and watch to see what the cool kids get into, which audience would you target? Even though one is ten times smaller, it is going to be far more effective to market to them. AEW apologists absolutely refuse to understand this point and assume that the 1000 is ALWAYS going to be better and nothing else matters but then falling into a magic group as charted by Showbuzz. And you don’t need to win by much, as long as you just place higher on the charts.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not a sexy product. Women used to love wrestling, but it’s since turned into such an old, white thing. I’d suggest that it’s a combo of kayfabe being dead, the Attitude era offending sensibilities, the men being less attractive, and even the women’s wrestling being more pandering and off-putting to women instead of empowering or charismatic.
> 
> You could do a massive investigation into this. But the culture of the wrestling fan has changed dramatically, that is for sure. Wrestling ran off everyone except the obsessed ne
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling doesn’t need to be geared towards males.
> 
> 
> 
> Wtf is this post. I listen to Cornette every week and I’ve never heard him say this. Another lie? Probably.
> 
> It’s going to be so fun when NXT start beating AEW in the demos, by the way. With AEW fans hanging their hat on this so hard and acting like it really matters to them, I think that will be where a lot of the fans will just give up on the product. That is why some have been saying the perception of this thing is important from the start. The damage being perceived by AEW being trounced by NXT might be bigger to the brand than it arguably should be. Look at TK and CJ melting down already.


Brand loyalty which causes wwe loyalists to attack rival companies like this is reason advertisers seek younger demos - you're a lost cause


----------



## The Wood

rexmundi said:


> That is the system we are stuck with. By the same token, winning by 44,000 total viewers isn't exactly a "crushing victory" , which some here have deemed it, when it's just not an overwhelming amount of Nielsen boxes.


You must be new around here.

Has anyone labeled it a crushing victory? If they have, check to see if it is a parody of AEW fans calling a 9k win a crushing victory over NXT, and people needing to point out it is just a few boxes. It’s probably turnabout.



Pippen94 said:


> Brand loyalty which causes wwe loyalists to attack rival companies like this is reason advertisers seek younger demos - you're a lost cause


This might be the Pippen quote of the month: Brand loyalty scares advertisers? Okay, pal.

WWE sucks. I cancelled my Network subscription on principle over three years ago. More lies, but that is what you’re left with.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If AEW wins an Emmy before WWE, it will be really funny
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281606236249587713


An Emmy for what? I remember LU got a nomination but never figured out the category


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This might be the Pippen quote of the month: Brand loyalty scares advertisers? Okay, pal.
> 
> WWE sucks. I cancelled my Network subscription on principle over three years ago. More lies, but that is what you’re left with.


How moronic - that's how demo's work. If somebody brand loyal you're wasting money trying to appeal to them - nxt fans decided what type of soda they like in 1984 & won't change any time soon


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> An Emmy for what? I remember LU got a nomination but never figured out the category


Really? No way. Alright LU.

God I Miss that show.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

What confuses me is that for years all I heard from the IWC was how the WWE product was a kids show. Yet here we are six months into 2020 and now there is nothing but ignorant jokes about WWE's audience is nothing but 'Boomers' (hate that word BTW) and should have nothing but depends as sponsors. Well which is it? 

There has been a lot of evidence to show that the discrepancies on Wednesdays demo numbers are miniscule at best. It does not mean that every 20 year old is having AEW parties and it does not mean that every 50 year old is having nursing home gatherings. It means that both shows share a large chunk of the same demographics.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> How moronic - that's how demo's work. If somebody brand loyal you're wasting money trying to appeal to them - nxt fans decided what type of soda they like in 1984 & won't change any time soon


Got to start your post with the implication that you’re talking to an idiot, because your actual content won’t do that.

NXT started up in this current incarnation in 2012. 

NXT started up in this current incarnation in 2012. 

WWE has been losing viewers since 2001. Loyalty to the AEW brand has been wavering since day one. They are not growing an audience.

Yes, why would advertisers side with a brand that is never going to compete? So what the fuck do these demos mean? Your argument, Pips.


----------



## Ozell Gray

*AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: How NXT Main Event Fared Against AEW, Best And Worst Quarters, More*

As previously reported, night two of _The Great American Bash_ episode of _NXT_ topped the _Fyter Fest_ edition of _AEW Dynamite_ in total viewers again this week, while _Dynamite_ once again beat _NXT_ in the prime 18-49 demo.

_NXT_ drew 759,000 total viewers (-4.2% from last week), topping the 715,000 viewers (-4.4%) scored by _Dynamite_ on TNT by 6.2%. It was the first time that _NXT_ has beaten AEW in total viewers for three weeks in a row. For NXT, it was their third best number since both shows moved to empty-ish arena shows on March 18th, while it was the eight best for AEW in that span.
AEW won the first hour in total viewers while _NXT_ won the second.

The Private Party vs. Kenny Omega & Hangman Page match that opened the show was the best quarter with 785,000 total viewers, while the Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy main event was the low point with 675,000 viewers. The Keith Lee vs. Adam Cole match was the most watched quarter for the show this year and averaged 922,000 viewers, beating the Jericho vs. Cassidy match by 37%. The lowest quarters were the second (end of the Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae match) and the fourth (Johnny Gargano vs. Isaiah Scott), which both averaged 681,000 viewers.
AEW drew a 0.28 rating (-3.5% from last week) in the 18-49 demographic, beating the 0.20 rating (-9%) garnered by _NXT_ by 40%. Once again, AEW won every quarter in the 18-49 demo.

The opening AEW match, which drew the most total viewers for the show, also did the best in 18-49 with 391,000 viewers in the demo. The low point in the demo was the seventh (end of SCU vs. _Dark_ Order & Colt Cabana and the Big Swole angle) that averaged 350,000 viewers. For NXT, the main event was the high point in 18-49 with 359,000 viewers, the best number for the show in the demo this year. The AEW main event still topped it in the demo, but only by 3,000 viewers (0.8%). The low point for _NXT_ in 18-49 was the fourth quarter (Johnny Gargano vs. Isaiah Scott) which averaged 225,000 viewers.
NXT won the over 50 demo big, while AEW won all of the other demos.
Below are the quarter hour breakdowns from both shows, compiled by 411 Mania with data from _The Wrestling Observer Newsletter_. The quarters won by either show are highlighted in bold:

*Q1: Private Party vs. Kenny Omega & Hangman Page – 785,000 viewers, 391,000 in 18-49
Q2: Joey Janela vs. Lance Archer – 695,000 viewers (down 90,000), 356,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)
Q3: End of Archer vs. Janela/Darby Allin promo/Taz & Brian Cage interview – 736,000 viewers (up 41,000), 373,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
Q4: The Young Bucks & FTR vs. The Lucha Bros, The Butcher & The Blade – 735,000 viewers (down 1,000), 379,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)*
Q5: Big Swole angle/Nyla Rose squash & promo – 705,000 viewers (down 30,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (down 28,000)
Q6: SCU vs. _Dark_ Order & Colt Cabana – 692,000 viewers (down 13,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (no change)
Q7: End of 6-Man Tag/Big Swole Angle/Next week hype – 695,000 viewers (up 3,000), 350,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q8: Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy – 675,000 viewers (down 20,000), 362,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
*WWE NXT:*
Q1: Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae – 775,000 viewers, 235,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Yim vs. LeRae – 681,000 viewers (down 94,000), 226,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q3: Bronson Reed vs. Tony Nese/Robert Stone angle – 696,000 viewers (up 15,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)
Q4: Johnny Gargano vs. Isaiah Scott – 681,000 viewers (down 15,000), 225,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
*Q5: El Legado del Fantasma vs. Breezango & Drake Maverick – 757,000 viewers (up 76,000), 247,000 in 18-49 (up 22,000)
Q6: Mercedes Martinez vs. Santana Garrett – 741,000 viewers (down 16,000), 257,000 in 18-49 (up 10,000)
Q7: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 816,000 viewers (up 75,000), 312,000 in 18-49 (up 55,000)
Q8: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 922,000 viewers (up 106,000), 359,000 in 18-49 (up 47,000)











AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: How NXT Main Event Fared Against AEW, Best And Worst Quarters, More - Wrestling Inc.


AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: How NXT Main Event Fared Against AEW, Best And Worst Quarters, More




www.wrestlinginc.com




*


----------



## rexmundi

The Wood said:


> NBC hasn’t been seen as #1 since Seinfeld, Frasier and Friends.


Factually speaking, NBC won the demo five of the last seven years now. Every year they won that, they trumpeted themselves as the #1 network. CBS has ruled the roost in total viewers for years but only won the demo once since 1992. They also herald themselves as #1. Relating this to wrestling, we might be seeing many split decision between AEW and NXT if the current trend prevails.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Really? No way. Alright LU.
> 
> God I Miss that show.


Yeah it was a big deal around the time because WWE had actually campaigned for one but didn't get a nomination


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well then.... America is useless


not really tho. They lost 1k viewers and gained 6k in demo. So for the demos they won, but basically we can say they held the ratings and didn't tune out fans.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> not really tho. They lost 1k viewers and gained 6k in demo. So for the demos they won, but basically we can say they held the ratings and didn't tune out fans.


I think they expected this match to gain a lot of viewers because they knew that the last part of the show was going to suffer


----------



## The Wood

rexmundi said:


> Factually speaking, NBC won the demo five of the last seven years now. Every year they won that, they trumpeted themselves as the #1 network. CBS has ruled the roost in total viewers for years but only won the demo once since 1992. They also herald themselves as #1. Relating this to wrestling, we might be seeing many split decision between AEW and NXT if the current trend prevails.


Yes, but even people within NBC mocked that. 

I was just thinking about the meltdowns. They're pretty funny. This invites _so_ much trolling when they do lose the demos. Honestly, given the way a lot of "young people" are, it wouldn't surprise me to see them sleep on AEW for a week just to see the world burn and the fallout when people post the demos relentlessly to Khan and Jericho.

The one segment that people should take of, other than Jericho vs. Cassidy being a fucking failure of epic proportions, is the gains for the Santos Escobar vehicle on NXT. That made some pretty good gains. I'm sure if you broke it down further, you would see quite a few Hispanic viewers making up those gains, although it's really hard to imagine people in 2020 being so switch friendly. Something about that is appealing to people though. Take note, NXT.


----------



## rbl85

Apparently AEW might have fans in the arena pretty soon


----------



## The Wood

Haha, I just saw a poster on another forum point out something about the demos and how they translate to sponsors. One show advertised Mountain Dew, Little Caesers, State Farm, M&M, Lexus, Papa Johns, T-Mobile, Thrivent, Hershey, Iams, Stamps.com, Good Rx and Terminex in the first half an hour. The other promoted Cracker Barrel, Sensodyne, Taco Bell, Mirror, Warby and Geico. They then asked them to guess which is which, haha. Fucking ouch.


----------



## rbl85

With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?

Might be a good way to gain young viewers


----------



## NXT Only

Q7 and Q8 were commercial free for NXT right? Great decision by them and USA. Made Tony’s tweet after the last commercial of OC/Y2K make sense as well so viewers wouldn’t flip back and forth but it was too late after the first one probably.



rbl85 said:


> With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?
> 
> Might be a good way to gain young viewers


Kenny could make a story work like this. He could go really deep into it.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?
> 
> Might be a good way to gain young viewers


It could be worth a shot. But it would be fun to see them do it serious. Sort of like how Thuganomics Cena was presented as a real threat.


----------



## NXT Only

I want to play with this narrative that the ratings are dropping for a second.

When AEW first started and they were doing 900k-1M on average in terms of live viewership they were putting on wrestling heavy shows and this particular group wanted more segments and promos.

Now come the segments and promos and the live audience “drops” and that same group is using that to justify their agendas yet they’re getting what they wanted. Less in ring action and more segments and promos.

Looking at the head to head quarters I don’t ever really see segments beating matches.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> I'm just going to leave this here for everyone to argue over. I thought this thread needed some life put back into it.
> 
> As part of PWInsider's daily mailbag Q&A, Mike Johnson replied to a question, about viewers vs demos, answering which is the more successful and coveted of the two "markers" from a company perspective. The answer is:
> 
> _From a network perspective, I can tell you that the demographics are more important. Everyone wants to win when they are in competition, but for a network, the demographics are far more important as that is the data that they deliver and promise to advertisers, who want to know that their products are seen by the highly desired younger audience. AEW on Wednesday night was #7 for the evening in the 18-34 demo - and also tops in LOTS of other demos this week) - and I can tell you that from speaking to a lot of sources at Warner Media, they absolutely love AEW's performance and do so much that there's been a lot of talk in recent weeks about developing other ways to link AEW with additional corners of Warner properties.
> 
> Anyone who dismisses the demo numbers is either uneducated to their importance or they are looking for an incorrect way to prove themselves right. If WWE Smackdown is last in the viewership in their timeslot but they win the demo, it's not like FOX is going to look at the series as failing that week - and it's not like WWE would then bemoan that Smackdown was in last place vs. NBC, ABC, CBS, etc. The argument that AEW is "doing bad" in, in any way, is just plain silly and not rooted in reality.
> 
> As far as the overnight audience, it is important for bragging rights but it's also an outdated way of looking at things. For fans indoctrinated in the way we all used to track Raw vs. Nitro, it's silly to act like it's 1995. The overnight numbers are different now. Unless there is access to the +3 and +7 numbers via DVR viewing (which we don't have access to) and streaming #s, we don't know the final audience levels for the shows. So, the overnight numbers don't tell the story on viewership the way they did decades ago._
> 
> Okay, your turn now...


"But for a network, the demographics are more important". Are we the network? Your evidence literally states that it only matters for the networks.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?
> 
> Might be a good way to gain young viewers


So silly bullshit sinks AEW and the response from fans is "should they get sillier?" Fuck's sake. NO! Do fucking pro-wrestling. It's not fucking hard. Kenny Omega and The Bucks are _already_ these gimmicks anyway. Are they drawing? 

New Japan is missing a trick by not having a presence at anime fests, comic cons, etc. There is potential room to segue that otaku/weeaboo culture into some sort of niche US expansion. Finding the right resources to get puroresu out there as something that is taken seriously as a boutique and intricate art is something that could get them. My instincts tell me that it is less lame to watch Tanahashi and Okada going out there and having an epic over the IWGP Heavyweight Title than seeing Jericho and Cassidy play slap-ass with each other. There's more "panache" to one, even if it isn't likely to "boom," per se. But the exotic nature of it could help. But an anime wrestler is not the fucking secret. 



NXT Only said:


> I want to play with this narrative that the ratings are dropping for a second.
> 
> When AEW first started and they were doing 900k-1M on average in terms of live viewership they were putting on wrestling heavy shows and this particular group wanted more segments and promos.
> 
> Now come the segments and promos and the live audience “drops” and that same group is using that to justify their agendas yet they’re getting what they wanted. Less in ring action and more segments and promos.
> 
> Looking at the head to head quarters I don’t ever really see segments beating matches.


Firstly, this is a hasty generalisation. You are painting critics of AEW as people who don't like in-ring content and people who want to see crazed gimmicks and bombastic promos all the time. This is _not_ the case, and you are misrepresenting one side to try and strengthen yours. It may not be consciously dishonest, but it needs to be identified as something incorrect. 

Promos by themselves are not going to draw people in. Nor are matches that don't tell a story. That doesn't mean you don't have promos and you don't have matches that tell stories. Vince Russo created this false dichotomy in the late 90's/early 00's of internet wrestling discussion between in-ring and personality that just doesn't fucking exist. This is where you get bizarre ideas like Hulk Hogan and The Rock are not good workers, that psychology doesn't matter and that good wrestling doesn't draw. 

It's all one package. You have guys who talk shit, and their personalities and auras draw you in and make you want to see them either kick ass or get their ass kicked. Then you put that out in the ring. If it's on free TV, you potentially keep it short, not for attention spans, but to leave people wanting more and being willing to buy tickets to live events and order PPVs. Sometimes you go long to really wretch emotion and investment out of people, as well as give them enough exposure to your flavour. Occasionally you'll throw in an angle to set up a personal issue and create some sort of drama that can be exploited for financial gain. 

This isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. Wrestling is really simple, but where it gets hard is knowing the audience, what the audience is really going to be attracted to and what they are going to be willing to pay for and what is going to shatter their investment. It used to be second-nature to a lot of bookers/promoters, and it used to be something you could teach, but I guess a lot of people just can't understand the concept or don't want to learn it, so you get a lot of shit being thrown at the wall to see what sticks, which is never wise, because the more shit that falls off the less sticky your shit is going to be perceived as.

It's not matches vs. promos. It's matches AND promos.


----------



## NXT Only

Cult03 said:


> "But for a network, the demographics are more important". Are we the network? Your evidence literally states that it only matters for the networks.


I think it’s more about how you, and people who think like you, have this perception that AEW isn’t doing well.

I’ll be back. Gotta read one of the Wood’s emails.


----------



## The Wood

These people worship prosperwithdeen's opinion just because he claims to be in advertising and assume he is good at his job. And prosperwith, I'm not being an ass -- I'm sure you are and you are, but let's not pretend that everybody is honest and everybody is good -- I'm sure you've worked with some idiots in your time ;-). But they have cherry-picked his entire write-up. They latched onto things like "the audience is actually probably much bigger because of illegal streaming" (just to paraphrase), which is irrelevant when we are talking about their success on a network anyway, but have ignored things like "advertisers have largely gone digital" (again paraphrasing), which I have been saying when it comes to these "key demos" from the start.

In fact, since I have been questioning the importance of the demo in 2019/2020, I don't think I've had one person even attempt to tell me _why_ they think cable television is an effective way to reach them today, or why they think <400k people in that demo is a number to go out of your way for. The attitude has always been an appeal to authority -- Meltzer's, Johnson's, Tony's, Jericho's, etc.-- with this sentiment of "it just is -- look at the chart."

Is someone game to explain to me why they think advertisers cling to the Showbuzz listed 18-49 demo in 2020?


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> I think it’s more about how you, and people who think like you, have this perception that AEW isn’t doing well.


I have never said that. They're not really doing well though, they're doing fine. They should be doing far better.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Firstly, this is a hasty generalisation. You are painting critics of AEW as people who don't like in-ring content and people who want to see crazed gimmicks and bombastic promos all the time. This is _not_ the case, and you are misrepresenting one side to try and strengthen yours. It may not be consciously dishonest, but it needs to be identified as something incorrect.
> 
> Promos by themselves are not going to draw people in. Nor are matches that don't tell a story. That doesn't mean you don't have promos and you don't have matches that tell stories. Vince Russo created this false dichotomy in the late 90's/early 00's of internet wrestling discussion between in-ring and personality that just doesn't fucking exist. This is where you get bizarre ideas like Hulk Hogan and The Rock are not good workers, that psychology doesn't matter and that good wrestling doesn't draw.
> 
> It's all one package. You have guys who talk shit, and their personalities and auras draw you in and make you want to see them either kick ass or get their ass kicked. Then you put that out in the ring. If it's on free TV, you potentially keep it short, not for attention spans, but to leave people wanting more and being willing to buy tickets to live events and order PPVs. Sometimes you go long to really wretch emotion and investment out of people, as well as give them enough exposure to your flavour. Occasionally you'll throw in an angle to set up a personal issue and create some sort of drama that can be exploited for financial gain.
> 
> This isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. Wrestling is really simple, but where it gets hard is knowing the audience, what the audience is really going to be attracted to and what they are going to be willing to pay for and what is going to shatter their investment. It used to be second-nature to a lot of bookers/promoters, and it used to be something you could teach, but I guess a lot of people just can't understand the concept or don't want to learn it, so you get a lot of shit being thrown at the wall to see what sticks, which is never wise, because the more shit that falls off the less sticky your shit is going to be perceived as.
> 
> It's not matches vs. promos. It's matches AND promos.


Y’all got your promos and segments and then ratings “dropped” and you kept shitting on the company.

Like I said promos and segments should be transitions into action, which clearly keeps viewers locked in.

Air a promo while someone is making their entrance, we don’t need to see them interact with the fans. When Moxley is coming out let him make his way down and the ramp and then air a 15-30 second clip of him lighting the mic up before his match or he does it right before his opponent hits the ring similar to MJF the other night.

Today’s wrestling fan loves action, build things around the action. The ratings were “high” when they did that.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> I think it’s more about how you, and people who think like you, have this perception that AEW isn’t doing well.


Again, this is largely made-up. Or you're interpreting people's impressions in a way for you to twist to get your side over stronger. 

Whether or not AEW is doing well is actually subjective. You hear that from the AEW faithful side a lot -- wrestling is subjective, what is good is subjective, etc. How to read numbers can actually be really subjective. The numbers themselves aren't, but what they mean absolutely can be. You can look at placement in a demo as being really good. You can. Being 5th on the night for something means that there are only 4 shows by that specific metric that are doing better at that thing than you are. But you can debate that metric. You can also compare one show in a genre being 5th with another being 1st. Or you can point to how they used to be 1st, but have now fallen in the placings. Trajectory and context are important. You're ignoring that to reduce it to a "good/bad" dichotomy, which is just not the case. 

It is perfectly reasonable to say that "711k viewers on a Wednesday night is quite a lot of people." It is also perfectly reasonably to reply with "not for wrestling." Because it is and then it isn't.

$45 million is a lot of money. Not for wrestling TV rights fees. 

What is not subjective are the actual numbers. It is no longer subjective to suggest that Orange Cassidy draws. It's just a flat-out lie. The people who said "this is stupid and not going to work" were right. AEW fans like to twist the objective into subjectivity. Whether or not something works or not is evident. They also like to twist the subjective into objectivity (optikk is particularly keen to do this). "0.28 in the demo = good!" Does it? We don't know how that demo is further represented or whether advertisers are willing to part with their money on that surface-level data (which is why these demos were originally considered important in the first place). 

AEW having a 0.1 key demo lead, or whatever the fuck, is only really useful for two things: 1) baseless bragging about a choice to interpret this as an indicator of a youth movement behind AEW, and 2) if it translates to advertisers plonking a shit-tonne of cash behind AEW. It is very possible for both to just not be happening.


----------



## NXT Only

Cult03 said:


> I have never said that. They're not really doing well though, they're doing fine. They should be doing far better.


well, fine lol come on man you wanna play this game? They’re doing well, they’re doing fine. Same thing.

They shouldn’t be doing better, they could be doing better but we don’t know what they’re holding onto and planning. Again your perception of things.

Y’all literally shit on the company in every thread 

Sonny Kiss thread is y’all crapping on them
FTR thread is y’all crapping on them 
Predictability thread is y’all crapping on them 
Horsemen thread is y’all crapping on them 

And I’m the one misinterpreting things LMAO.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Y’all got your promos and segments and then ratings “dropped” and you kept shitting on the company.
> 
> Like I said promos and segments should be transitions into action, which clearly keeps viewers locked in.
> 
> Air a promo while someone is making their entrance, we don’t need to see them interact with the fans. When Moxley is coming out let him make his way down and the ramp and then air a 15-30 second clip of him lighting the mic up before his match or he does it right before his opponent hits the ring similar to MJF the other night.
> 
> Today’s wrestling fan loves action, build things around the action. The ratings were “high” when they did that.


Holy shit, stop lying. 

You literally ignored everything I just said. What the fuck do you mean by "segment" anyway? You aren't even using correct terminology at this point. 

I don't remember getting the "promos" I wanted. Stop trying to speak for me. MJF can talk, but I've called even the stuff Jericho and Moxley has done as "WWE-style bullshit." It's well-delivered, I will never knock them for that. But the content is feeble and drizzle. That's not what "we" were advocating, so stop spreading that fucking lie. You are just advocating it for being your idea of what wrestling should be, which is what you accuse everyone else of doing. I swear to god, you are the most idiosyncratically ironic person on these forums. It doesn't make you a bad person or anything, but do you realise that basically every criticism you lob at someone is something you then go and do either in the very same post or one right after? 

Today's wrestling fans are switching off en masse. AEW's ratings, as you put in quotation marks, were never that "high." The eight-man tag lost viewers. Isn't Jericho and Cassidy considered "action?" What the fuck do you even mean by "action?" Where is your evidence for what you're saying?



NXT Only said:


> Y’all literally shit on the company in every thread
> 
> Sonny Kiss thread is y’all crapping on them
> FTR thread is y’all crapping on them
> Predictability thread is y’all crapping on them
> Horsemen thread is y’all crapping on them
> 
> And I’m the one misinterpreting things LMAO.


Those things are crap. Well, FTR are great in-ring, but the way they are being presented/presenting themselves is insider bullshit. But when you say "crapping on them" it sounds like it's unwarranted. Look at the number of people who are saying "nah, not for me, fam" and pointing out _why_ this isn't what they want to see from a wrestling company. People don't owe it to them to eat their shit up and ask for more.


----------



## NXT Only

We want more promos 
We want more segments
We want more hosses

Im lying about those things being plastered all over this forum when Dynamite started?



The Wood said:


> Those things are crap. Well, FTR are great in-ring, but the way they are being presented/presenting themselves is insider bullshit. But when you say "crapping on them" it sounds like it's unwarranted. Look at the number of people who are saying "nah, not for me, fam" and pointing out _why_ this isn't what they want to see from a wrestling company. People don't owe it to them to eat their shit up and ask for more.


The point is everything isn’t for everyone. If you don’t like it then stop watching, those people are smart.

You know what you’re getting from AEW at this point and you keep coming back expecting your vision of pro wrestling. They aren’t booking the show for you.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> We want more promos
> We want more segments
> We want more hosses
> 
> Im lying about those things being plastered all over this forum when Dynamite started?


You're lying about that being the general consensus or the educated consensus criticising the product. Of course you are going to get Russo fanatics who come in and say that there should be midgets beating off in trash cans. You ignore those people, don't use them as avatars for the valid criticisms AEW gets.

People want promos that actually strike an emotional chord. Not just talking. 

What the fuck do you mean by a segment? 

They want more hosses that can actually work and work to their gimmick. Not just big guys who can't move or big guys who do backflips off stages. 



NXT Only said:


> The point is everything isn’t for everyone. If you don’t like it then stop watching, those people are smart.
> 
> You know what you’re getting from AEW at this point and you keep coming back expecting your vision of pro wrestling. They aren’t booking the show for you.


Yes, most of the world is smart by not paying any attention to AEW. Thanks for pointing that out. Another "I hate wrestling" post. No, that isn't what you said, but instead of this show appealing to wrestling fans, you want them to go away and stop asking questions. You'd rather this thing die being bad. 

They aren't booking the show for their audience either. 675k viewers for that main event.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> We want more promos
> We want more segments
> We want more hosses
> 
> Im lying about those things being plastered all over this forum when Dynamite started?


You left out the word good. Anyone can deliver a promo or a segment and many are hosses.

I am fairly sure the Ultimate Warrior did all three of those at the same time, but would anyone argue they were very good?


----------



## The Wood

Why is Joey Janela still around? It's clear the dude hates wrestling. 

First of all, he's mocking the audience. Secondly of all, he's mocking what he does. Isn't he a guy that is supposed to be out there playing an alpha dude grappling with guys? And he's mocking people watching it? Thirdly, he's admitting to being an out-of-shape bum. Fourthly, the implication that it is "weird" to watch "alpha" men grappling with each other has got an air of homophobia to it. Fifthly, he talks about "falling" through tables, which is breaking kayfabe. Sixthly, he admits to being untrained, which is just a shit look. 

There are so many things wrong with his tweet on so many different levels, and he constantly exposes himself as unprofessional and shit.


----------



## NXT Only

Lheurch said:


> You left out the word good. Anyone can deliver a promo or a segment and many are hosses.
> 
> I am fairly sure the Ultimate Warrior did all three of those at the same time, but would anyone argue they were very good?


They never said good.

The Wood is backtracking off of everything he’s said.


----------



## El Hammerstone

NXT Only said:


> They never said good.


You're right, people clearly meant wanting to see guys talking for the sake of talking.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> They never said good.


No one said good? We did but good is implied in wanting something you want to exist. What, would I want elements I believe would improve the show but would want them to be mediocre or poor? What kind of semantic argument is this?



The Wood said:


> Why is Joey Janela still around? It's clear the dude hates wrestling.
> 
> First of all, he's mocking the audience. Secondly of all, he's mocking what he does. Isn't he a guy that is supposed to be out there playing an alpha dude grappling with guys? And he's mocking people watching it? Thirdly, he's admitting to being an out-of-shape bum. Fourthly, the implication that it is "weird" to watch "alpha" men grappling with each other has got an air of homophobia to it. Fifthly, he talks about "falling" through tables, which is breaking kayfabe. Sixthly, he admits to being untrained, which is just a shit look.
> 
> There are so many things wrong with his tweet on so many different levels, and he constantly exposes himself as unprofessional and shit.


I know he was trying something he does not understand at all (good humor) in that tweet, but he really just owns himself for anyone who likes wrestling. Yes Joey, I wish I could watch the slob staggering home hammered fall through a table instead of trained professionals who look like they can fight. OK, I might want to see that too, but not on a show about athletes and fighting. If I want to watch a slob put pigtails in his hair and chug a vat of Utz Cheeseballs, I can just go to YouTube where people more amusing than you do it for free.


----------



## NXT Only

El Hammerstone said:


> You're right, people clearly meant wanting to see guys talking for the sake of talking.


Again there were no promos and segments. They asked for them, I said they’d get old fast unless guys had purpose for their words. They didn’t listen. They got what they wanted and they’re still unhappy.


----------



## El Hammerstone

NXT Only said:


> Again there were no promos and segments. They asked for them, I said they’d get old fast *unless guys had purpose for their words.* They didn’t listen. They got what they wanted and they’re still unhappy.


Do I really need to point out that this was implied?


----------



## NXT Only

Lheurch said:


> No one said good? We did but good is implied in wanting something you want to exist. What, would I want elements I believe would improve the show but would want them to be mediocre or poor? What kind of semantic argument is this?


If I think something is bad and you think something is good then what is it?

Everyone has their perception of things, it’s true some things are God awful and others are absolutely brilliant and yet even those things have detractors and supporters both ways.

A good promo to you might be terrible or unentertaining to some.

What’s hilarious is that the group who expresses their opinion about things they hate seems to not be able to understand that some people like what’s happening. You guys are insane honestly.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> Again there were no promos and segments. They asked for them, I said they’d get old fast unless guys had purpose for their words. They didn’t listen. They got what they wanted and they’re still unhappy.


Tony: "Oooohhhhhh! Hey guys they meant GOOD promos! Was not sure until they specifically told me. Maybe those lazy haters can just do the writing for me too?"


----------



## NXT Only

El Hammerstone said:


> Do I really need to point out that this was implied?


It wasn’t by your side. And it’s funny cause even when things have purpose y’all shit on it.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> If I think something is bad and you think something is good then what is it?
> 
> Everyone has their perception of things, it’s true some things are God awful and others are absolutely brilliant and yet even those things have detractors and supporters both ways.
> 
> A good promo to you might be terrible or unentertaining to some.
> 
> What’s hilarious is that the group who expresses their opinion about things they hate seems to not be able to understand that some people like what’s happening. You guys are insane honestly.


So then you would agree that when people wanted promos, "segments," and hosses, it was implied it meant good TO THEM?

EDIT: To your last point, if you want silly and goofy, WWE already exists. Tony promised one thing and is delivering another. No one can argue that.


----------



## El Hammerstone

NXT Only said:


> It wasn’t by your side. And it’s funny cause even when things have purpose y’all shit on it.


It was, and things rarely do.


----------



## NXT Only

Y’all missed the entire point of my original post as usual. When they went from their original formula the viewership “dropped” and now that you guys aren’t getting the shows you wanted you’re still not happy. You’ll never be happy.

That was it for me regarding this debate tho.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> Y’all missed the entire point of my original post as usual. When they went from their original formula the viewership “dropped” and now that you guys aren’t getting the shows you wanted you’re still not happy. You’ll never be happy.
> 
> That was it for me regarding this debate tho.


No, the show was improving, we were all complimenting the progress, ratings were up, then all of a sudden a skinny goof is in the main event and they are getting record low ratings. So, no, your premise is wrong. The low point before this was the last show of the year with the Dork Order punching literal thin air. EVERYONE hated that. After that they improved for awhile.


----------



## Wolf Mark

They were so stubborn in Jericho and OC, they went ahead and put it in main even and it failed making it three segments of Jericho/Best Friends/OC sinking the ratings. That was predictable. There is nothing left to say, really. 

I like the kid as a midcard act and that's where he should remain.


----------



## Pippen94

Nxt gave away their biggest match & still didn't make dent in demos - they're not winning this war


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> The Wood is backtracking off of everything he’s said.


How? Don’t just say it, back it up. 



NXT Only said:


> Again there were no promos and segments. They asked for them, I said they’d get old fast unless guys had purpose for their words. They didn’t listen. They got what they wanted and they’re still unhappy.


Can I please get some qualification from someone as to what a “segment” means? It obviously doesn’t mean what I thought it meant, haha. 



NXT Only said:


> If I think something is bad and you think something is good then what is it?
> 
> Everyone has their perception of things, it’s true some things are God awful and others are absolutely brilliant and yet even those things have detractors and supporters both ways.
> 
> A good promo to you might be terrible or unentertaining to some.
> 
> What’s hilarious is that the group who expresses their opinion about things they hate seems to not be able to understand that some people like what’s happening. You guys are insane honestly.


Bad. Your opinion has proven to be wishy-washy and dishonest, honestly. I’d trust Lheurch. You often say something is bad and then defend it or criticise other people for saying it is bad.

For a less subjective take, this is why we measure what works and what doesn’t. Jericho and Cassidy chased away 100k viewers and was watched by 675k people versus an alternative that got 995k. If I look at one as an investment, I can listen to you take one side and Lheurch the other and see who knows their shit more. Turns out it’s Lheurch.

NOW, more popular doesn’t always mean good. But more effective is more effective. And when the thing I perceive as good with whatever education I have smokes something else that isn’t as good, that someone tells me is good, I know not to put as much weight into their opinion.

Not every opinion is created equally.



Pippen94 said:


> Nxt gave away their biggest match & still didn't make dent in demos - they're not winning this war


This post is not going to age well.


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah it would be helpful but all streaming apps/networks unfortunately don't release that info to the public on a weekly basis. Sometimes you’ll get articles though. It's only for the advertisers and TV execs to see for the most part. 95% of fans don't care about ratings so I'm sure they don't even think it's worth posting like Nielsen. Seems like some of the bigger shows Like Fight for the fallen and fyter fest are reported though as well as PPV buy rates on their network And subscriptions through insider sources like WON, Ringside News, Observer and SESCoops.
> 
> 
> 
> They stream on AT&T too? Didn't know that, which means the live audience is even bigger. Yeah the picture and picture is great, I just mute the stream lol. And yeah the overall audience is drastically bigger, I would say both AEW and NXT are doing around 2Mil+ with RAW and SD probably doing 4 or 5Mil+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the page:
> 
> Stream All Elite Wrestling live - Official Site - B/R Live


All cable services have apps that let you watch live cable tv from the app. I have firestick so it I wanna watch TNT and Dynamite live. I can use my dad's log in to sign into TNT app to watch live tv.

Or log into his AT&T app and stream 162 channels of channels my dad gets part of tv package. Which are majority of all the main stream channels you can watch on cable.


A friend of mine does the same thing. He used his father in-law log in and signs into TNT and USA app to watch wrestling live. That's why I always laugh when people compare today's ratings vs 10-20 years ago. When you can watch live cable channels by password sharing without having cable. Not to mention all the illegal free stream sites and apps out there.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This post is not going to age well.


Nxt demos haven't moved - it struggles to make young viewers


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

NXT Only said:


> We want more promos
> We want more segments
> We want more hosses
> 
> Im lying about those things being plastered all over this forum when Dynamite started?


You are being intellectually dishonest.

We want more promos= We want more background in the random people who are showing up on my TV

We want more segments= We want more information on who this character is you are introducing

We want more houses = We want dudes who actually look like they can beat up people in the crowd, but look like them. 

FFS, Jorge Masvidal in UFC is 170 pounds, do you believe any champion in AEW could beat him up even if they had a weapon.

Weak argument here man.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> This post is not going to age well.


So many flags to plant with these posts and the "OC is no where near the main event you fools" posts we have had many of.



imthegame19 said:


> All cable services have apps that let you watch live cable tv from the app. I have firestick so it I wanna watch TNT and Dynamite live. I can use my dad's log in to sign into TNT app to watch live tv.
> 
> Or log into his AT&T app and stream 162 channels of channels my dad gets part of tv package. Which are majority of all the main stream channels you can watch on cable.
> 
> 
> A friend of mine does the same thing. He used his father in-law log in and signs into TNT and USA app to watch wrestling live. That's why I always laugh when people compare today's ratings vs 10-20 years ago. When you can watch live cable channels by password sharing without having cable. Not to mention all the illegal free stream sites and apps out there.


One caveat I would point out is when you stream through the official apps, you better believe the networks know exactly how many households are watching, not what is a glorified estimate with Nielsen. Same with the WWE network.


----------



## Pippen94

Lheurch said:


> So many flags to plant with these posts and the "OC is no where near the main event you fools" posts we have had many of.


aew will still be winning ratings for some time to come. Despitr brst efforts nxt fans old as f...


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> aew will still be winning ratings for some time to come. Despitr brst efforts nxt fans old as f...


They might be winning the demo for awhile sure, hard to predict with so many unknowns like the virus. It is easy to see NXT's numbers now vs the beginning of the year vs AEW's. They both had to deal with the virus at the same time. Not sure why you hate old people though. Are they less valuable to you personally or just because of advertising dollars? Seems a bit personal. I watch AEW over NXT because I have zero evidence the WWE will change course before AEW will. WWE is BEGGING someone to come along and beat them.


----------



## thorn123

I watched My very first episode of NXT. It was good, but had no context. Cole was the only person I knew. It’s all about the characters. Once you are invested in a character, you give them a pass for a bad match/promo and will defend them til the end of the earth. I am invested in AEW and loving the characters and enjoying the show. I wish more viewers were. Not to win the ratings war, just so they can continue with good programming. I may watch NXT again (not raw or Smackdown - those shows put me in a bad mood for too long). I have issues with Vince and HHH which are holding me back from committing to NXT. Ultimately I would like to watch NXT and AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

NXT Only said:


> Y’all got your promos and segments and then ratings “dropped” and you kept shitting on the company.
> 
> Like I said promos and segments should be transitions into action, which clearly keeps viewers locked in.
> 
> Air a promo while someone is making their entrance, we don’t need to see them interact with the fans. When Moxley is coming out let him make his way down and the ramp and then air a 15-30 second clip of him lighting the mic up before his match or he does it right before his opponent hits the ring similar to MJF the other night.
> 
> *Today’s wrestling fan loves action, build things around the action. The ratings were “high” when they did that.*


The thing is action with no plot gets boring after a while. What you're suggesting doesn't give much time to build plot. On top of that the more the wrestling business has decided to focus and highlight the wrestling the more fans have dropped off.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Bloody Warpath said:


> What confuses me is that for years all I heard from the IWC was how the WWE product was a kids show. Yet here we are six months into 2020 and now there is nothing but ignorant jokes about WWE's audience is nothing but 'Boomers' (hate that word BTW) and should have nothing but depends as sponsors. Well which is it?


You just described how WWE Raw has lost 65% of its audience in the last 5 years.

They created a show targeted at kids, hoping to reel in a younger demo. They failed, and in doing so drove away the remaining 18-49 demo they had left. So what are they left with? A show that has a terrible demo among the target demo, whose remaining viewers are all old loyalty based viewers. And most of these old people probably a functionally retarded since they are 55+ years old watching corny cartoonish garbage. 

It’s why WWE Raw will be cancelled within 5 years, or they’ll have to take a TV contract very similar to Dynamite. The target demo doesn’t watch WWE anymore


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> The thing is action with no plot gets boring after a while. What you're suggesting doesn't give much time to build plot. On top of that the more the wrestling business has decided to focus and highlight the wrestling the more fans have dropped off.


Are you asking for good plots and stories or just plots and stories in general? It is so hard to tell such things!


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> One caveat I would point out is when you stream through the official apps, you better believe the networks know exactly how many households are watching, not what is a glorified estimate with Nielsen. Same with the WWE network.


Yes on TNT app they would know how many people logged in to watch Dynamite. Probably not cable tv apps tho. But it's not going to be factored in with tv ratings. Considering how happy TNT is with Dynamite. It's a given that more then double viewers are really watching the show each week and it's more when you factor in illegal streams.


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> Yes on TNT app they would know how many people logged in to watch Dynamite. Probably not cable tv apps tho. But it's not going to be factored in with tv ratings. Considering how happy TNT is with Dynamite. It's a given that more then double viewers are really watching the show each week and it's more when you factor in illegal streams.


I definitely agree that it would not be factored into ratings. The Cable TV providers certainly know exactly who is streaming what though. Data is always for sale. If you increase the viewership for one program from such factors, you have to increase them all. It is not like people are only streaming AEW. To me, it seems like two points. More people are watching than the rating suggests...but that is true for everyone. Any advertising agency buying ads will be aware of all that.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> Are you asking for good plots and stories or just plots and stories in general? It is so hard to tell such things!


Lmao good ones if I'm picking


----------



## Not Lying

NXT Only said:


> *Y’all missed the entire point of my original post as usual.* When they went from their original formula the viewership “dropped” and now that you guys aren’t getting the shows you wanted you’re still not happy. You’ll never be happy.
> 
> That was it for me regarding this debate tho.


I noticed that as well. Back to your point, Tazz's promos are considered good and they were consistently losing viewers until this week I think.

I think the show just needs the fans badly as they are saving a lot of shit for when fans return. People will shit on them and say they could have done better even with the pandemic limitations, but it's all speculations and a bunch of people on the net talking lol.

However, I also don't completely agree with their original formula working, they were also losing viewers at the begining. 1.4m viewers, to 1m viewers, to mid 900s, to mid 800s...
I think they should have done some changes, but AEW is a show that feeds off crowd energy way more than NXT. Ya'll see the improvement once crowd is back.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> I definitely agree that it would not be factored into ratings. The Cable TV providers certainly know exactly who is streaming what though. Data is always for sale. If you increase the viewership for one program from such factors, you have to increase them all. It is not like people are only streaming AEW. To me, it seems like two points. More people are watching than the rating suggests...but that is true for everyone. Any advertising agency buying ads will be aware of all that.


Yep that's why 18-49 demos and this type of research data is what is important for advertising. Especially since 18-49 audience is much more likely to use this technology. So 18-49 numbers are likely even higher for AEW then ratings show. 

But yes this data likely also had big impact to USA and FOX paying WWE big money last year. When all wrestling fans would do is talk about ratings decline. Yet wrestling more valuable to networks then ever before.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

rbl85 said:


> With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?
> 
> Might be a good way to gain young viewers


Isn't Shida kind of doing that?


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Lmao good ones if I'm picking


Sorry, was not aimed at you. I was just laughing because I was told tonight that people wanting promos, "segments," and hosses did not imply good ones unless you also specifically said they had to be good. Like anyone would WANT something mediocre.


----------



## RapShepard

Lheurch said:


> Sorry, was not aimed at you. I was just laughing because I was told tonight that people wanting promos, "segments," and hosses did not imply good ones unless you also specifically said they had to be good. Like anyone would WANT something mediocre.


Nah I know I saw the post lol


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> All cable services have apps that let you watch live cable tv from the app. I have firestick so it I wanna watch TNT and Dynamite live. I can use my dad's log in to sign into TNT app to watch live tv.
> 
> Or log into his AT&T app and stream 162 channels of channels my dad gets part of tv package. Which are majority of all the main stream channels you can watch on cable.
> 
> 
> A friend of mine does the same thing. He used his father in-law log in and signs into TNT and USA app to watch wrestling live. That's why I always laugh when people compare today's ratings vs 10-20 years ago. When you can watch live cable channels by password sharing without having cable. Not to mention all the illegal free stream sites and apps out there.


What is the point of this though? Is there anybody that doesn’t know this? The issue is that advertisers are paying for slots on live cable. This is like counting the women you jack off to as sexual partners



Pippen94 said:


> Nxt demos haven't moved - it struggles to make young viewers


So does AEW. The 48 year olds really trying to hold on for AEW are eventually going to jump to NXor stop watching altogether. 



Randy Lahey said:


> You just described how WWE Raw has lost 65% of its audience in the last 5 years.
> 
> They created a show targeted at kids, hoping to reel in a younger demo. They failed, and in doing so drove away the remaining 18-49 demo they had left. So what are they left with? A show that has a terrible demo among the target demo, whose remaining viewers are all old loyalty based viewers. And most of these old people probably a functionally retarded since they are 55+ years old watching corny cartoonish garbage.
> 
> It’s why WWE Raw will be cancelled within 5 years, or they’ll have to take a TV contract very similar to Dynamite. The target demo doesn’t watch WWE anymore


Raw still does double what AEW does in the demo in a bad week. SmackDown is still #1 or #2 each week. Wtf is this post? Viewership is how WWE has declined — the very same thing AEW apologists say doesn’t matter.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

zkorejo said:


> Cmon man.. OC vs Jericho wasnt even supposed to be their main event. No titles were involved, this was OC's first mainevent singles match ever. On the other hand Keith Lee vs Cole was for the NA and NXT title, with Lee dethroning the longest reigning NXT champion. That was a Takeover quality match with big stakes on free TV without ads.


And those goal posts move again.

"Orange Cassidy is a great wrestler and is going to be a future superstar!"

- Ratings absolutely tank

"C'mon man! It wasn't a fair fight! OC Vs Jericho wasn't even supposed to be their main event!"

If Cassidy was such a big star he and the legendary Jericho (Who is much more famous than both Cole and Lee) would've crushed NXT. Simple.



shadow_spinner said:


> Why don't women watch AEW?


Back in the territory days if the audience was filled with women it was a sign that business was doing good. The thought process being a territory was really hot if they could get the women to the matches because wrestling usually wasn't something women are into.

I've only talked wrestling with a few ex girlfriends, my current girlfriend and some female friends but there isn't really anything in it for them to watch. I genuinely think the following could attract more women (Although obviously not ever to the level of the men)

- More compelling and exciting women on the show with good stories that matter. My girlfriend watches wrestling sometimes with me and takes an interest she doesn't care about any of the male wrestlers unless it's someone she knows (Such as The Rock) but she'll always pay attention to the women. Toni Storm is her favourite wrestler, she likes Tenille Dashwood because she's from our country and is a great worker, she likes Alexa Bliss but seems to dislike the heels such as Iiconics (Who are from our home state so not sure why she doesn't like them). Away from my girlfriend I've had women in the past talk about the lack of stories and how the women seem like filler on the shows which often they are. 

- Women like eye candy also. Take a look at some of the goofs running around in AEW. No woman looks at the majority of these guys and say "Wow, that dude is hot I'm going to head to the local arena because I want a photo with this dreamy guy". No, instead we've got people like Joey Janela, Marko Stunt, Private Party mixed in with broken down dudes like Jericho, Dustin and Hardy running around.

At my local indy (I mention them so much it's almost like I own the place, LOL) there is a tag team consisting of this good looking Macedonian bloke who is ripped and has a physique most of us would dream of and his tag team partner a typical Aussie looking heavyweight and they do a dominating tag team like Road Warriors. They always take photos during intermission and after the show and the women absolutely love them (Especially the good looking ripped bloke). I've seen women openly say on their page "Oh such and such is going to be there? Well, looks like I'm going as well!"

Mind you these women are often far from attractive looking but nonetheless he is a draw simply for being good looking. He sure as shit isn't doing 890 backflip drivers into a taco buster.



Pippen94 said:


> No evidence female fans prefer women's wrestling over men


I think it's kind of obvious to be honest.



NXT Only said:


> I want to play with this narrative that the ratings are dropping for a second.
> 
> When AEW first started and they were doing 900k-1M on average in terms of live viewership they were putting on wrestling heavy shows and this particular group wanted more segments and promos.
> 
> Now come the segments and promos and the live audience “drops” and that same group is using that to justify their agendas yet they’re getting what they wanted. Less in ring action and more segments and promos.
> 
> Looking at the head to head quarters I don’t ever really see segments beating matches.


The promos are awful and unmemorable. People are praising Taz who traditionally was average at best on the microphone as being the best mic worker AEW has right now. Admittedly Taz is now good but the only memorable show to show promos are him now. Look at the Darby Allin thing they produced this week. The dude dived backwards into a foam pit. Who cares? I'd tune out also if I wasn't such a tragic for trying to fix this broken product.



NXT Only said:


> Air a promo while someone is making their entrance, we don’t need to see them interact with the fans. When Moxley is coming out let him make his way down and the ramp and then air a 15-30 second clip of him lighting the mic up before his match or he does it right before his opponent hits the ring similar to MJF the other night.
> 
> Today’s wrestling fan loves action, build things around the action. The ratings were “high” when they did that.


Your idea can work sometimes but the television audience still likes to see the interaction, hear the music in the entrance etc. For example, can you imagine if during a Stone Cold match back in the day he came marching down to the ring like a bad ass and we cut to a promo or even a side by side screen where we can't hear the arena? It'd ruin that "Aw shit, someone is going to get their ass kicked tonight" feel.

For midcard and under guys it'd probably be a good idea. Wrestling fans love action but they also love story. I was listening to an interview yesterday from a well respected women's wrestler and she said what drew her in when she was a little girl was the story.



NXT Only said:


> We want more promos
> We want more segments
> We want more hosses
> 
> Im lying about those things being plastered all over this forum when Dynamite started?


It was and I was usually one of the people saying so.

The promos are bad.

The segments are bad.

The hosses are good but they don't know how to use them.



imthegame19 said:


> Yes on TNT app they would know how many people logged in to watch Dynamite. Probably not cable tv apps tho. But it's not going to be factored in with tv ratings. Considering how happy TNT is with Dynamite. It's a given that more then double viewers are really watching the show each week and it's more when you factor in illegal streams.


Double the viewers hey? 

I've illegally streamed AEW Dynamite before (Naughty naughty) and I can assure you that there are maybe a maximum of 100-200 people on the same site at the time (They have a counter at the bottom of the screen).

When I used to illegally stream Impact 10 years ago it was about triple.


----------



## The Wood

As Chip said, women will be attracted to hot guys and acts that capture their emotional investment. Sometimes “ugly” dudes can have charisma and an appeal that makes them endearing. I can see women liking an act like Daniel Bryan, for example. A very unpretentious guy who won himself a supermodel, is clearly great at his job and is amazing at gathering sympathy without seeming weak or phoney.

If you were playing Fuck, Marry, Kill with the AEW roster, there would be a lot of K’s with fire.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cornette says the ratings are dropping because they do the same shit week to week and nothing ever changes. Says they'll continue to drop.


----------



## The Wood

NXT overtaking AEW has been a bit of a ratings story, and when he records his show it's always before the quarters come out. It would be amazing to hear his reactions to Jericho and Cassidy fucking tanking. I guess it's the Drive-Thru for that. 

But he's right about them telling the same joke every week and it getting less and less of a laugh each time.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette says the ratings are dropping because they do the same shit week to week and nothing ever changes. Says they'll continue to drop.


Cornette said all in wouldn't work without local TV so he's maybe not the most current voice



The Wood said:


> NXT overtaking AEW has been a bit of a ratings story, and when he records his show it's always before the quarters come out. It would be amazing to hear his reactions to Jericho and Cassidy fucking tanking. I guess it's the Drive-Thru for that.
> 
> But he's right about them telling the same joke every week and it getting less and less of a laugh each time.


I wonder if he has any idea how nxt can get young ppl to watch?


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> Raw still does double what AEW does in the demo in a bad week. SmackDown is still #1 or #2 each week. Wtf is this post? Viewership is how WWE has declined — the very same thing AEW apologists say doesn’t matter.


Raw's demo is down over 50% from a year ago. The Demos on Raw and Smackdown are terrible compared to what they used to get, which is evidence of a very old fanbase.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Cornette said all in wouldn't work without local TV so he's maybe not the most current voice


He didn't say that, actually. Fuck, you are so full of shit. I know you're sore about being proven wrong _again_ and _again_, but can you not talk shit for just a few posts? 

And *respond to the actual subject matter.* Instead of just dismissing someone on the face of it, again, how about you actually explain what he is wrong about?



Randy Lahey said:


> Raw's demo is down over 50% from a year ago. The Demos on Raw and Smackdown are terrible compared to what they used to get, which is evidence of a very old fanbase.


That's not how demos work at all, hahaha. The demo actually _measures_ the fan-base. This is possibly the most absurd post on the subject I've seen. The demos being down mean that fewer people from the demo might be watching, but the people in that demo are still in that demo, haha


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> That's not how demos work at all, hahaha. The demo actually _measures_ the fan-base. This is possibly the most absurd post on the subject I've seen. The demos being down mean that fewer people from the demo might be watching, but the people in that demo are still in that demo, haha


This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

"The demo may be down, but there's still people in that demo"....lmao. No there isn't. If there were, they'd still be watching and the demo would be higher. A Demo measures VIEWERS. If you don't have the viewers in that demo anymore, they ain't there.

You're basically saying "WWE has a large 18-49 demographic, but they don't watch Raw"....well if they ain't watching the show, and ain't buying tickets, they don't exist. Period.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> He didn't say that, actually. Fuck, you are so full of shit. I know you're sore about being proven wrong _again_ and _again_, but can you not talk shit for just a few posts?
> 
> And *respond to the actual subject matter.* Instead of just dismissing someone on the face of it, again, how about you actually explain what he is wrong about?
> 
> 
> 
> That's not how demos work at all, hahaha. The demo actually _measures_ the fan-base. This is possibly the most absurd post on the subject I've seen. The demos being down mean that fewer people from the demo might be watching, but the people in that demo are still in that demo, haha


Says all in won't work without local TV near start of this





Calls nxt young ppl's brand here


----------



## fabi1982

NXT Only said:


> Dude found 2019 information lol. Learn how to use the internet old man.


with you not replying with a link to your statement that this years fyterfest had 350k viewers ob b/r live, it is pretty obvious that all of your number-limbo to come to the amount you need is pure bullshit. Thanks for making it so easy to see that you are just a deluded AEW fan


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
> 
> "The demo may be down, but there's still people in that demo"....lmao. No there isn't. If there were, they'd still be watching and the demo would be higher. A Demo measures VIEWERS. If you don't have the viewers in that demo anymore, they ain't there.
> 
> You're basically saying "WWE has a large 18-49 demographic, but they don't watch Raw"....well if they ain't watching the show, and ain't buying tickets, they don't exist. Period.


No, I'm saying that the people in the demo watching are still watching. This has to be a troll account. Their demo rating is currently twice as high as AEW. 



Pippen94 said:


> Says all in won't work without local TV near start of this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calls nxt young ppl's brand here


I have listened to the All In stuff before. You're clearly trying to be a troll by posting the omnibus to make people find it. I don't remember him talking about local TV. I remember him talking about local _radio_, which is the same principle they really applied to the internet. So yeah, Cornette isn't really up to date with that style of promotion, but it's the exact same principle. 

The most ridiculous thing so far is Cornette saying in the second video is that Cole has a similar build to Shawn Michaels. I think he's going by comparison of Shawn to other guys from Shawn's era there. A time stamp would be useful, but I don't mind re-listening to some Corny wisdom. He says nothing of the sort. Caught in another lie. What he says, and this is obviously a major comprehension problem on your behalf, which I don't mean to mock if you actually don't understand what is being said: He said that in five to seven years, or some point in the future, Vince is going to move away and Triple H is likely going to take over and there is some chance that the NXT philosophy will be applied to the main roster, so the young guys coming up would be smart to (re-)sign with the WWE if they are happy artistically with that. He is specifically talking about the age of the talent and where the industry will be in a few years time. He doesn't mention viewership or ratings once. Busted.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Calls nxt young ppl's brand here


He calls NXT the young guys brand, because the wrestler there are young, not in any way did he meant this as „this is the show the young people watch“. Even from context you cant be that stupid to not understand what he meant.
And cudos for having all the cornette skits when you are so afraid he will like your balls dry.


----------



## bdon

Cornette suggested Cole has a build similar to Shawn fucking Michaels!? Goddamn, what is he smoking!?

Adam Cole is smaller than I am!

His biases kill me sometimes.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Cornette suggested Cole has a build similar to Shawn fucking Michaels!? Goddamn, what is he smoking!?
> 
> Adam Cole is smaller than I am!
> 
> His biases kill me sometimes.


I don’t think it was biases, but that is ridiculous. Brian called him out on that right away and their future discussions have put it into perspective a bit. I genuinely think it would be a scale thing. He’s seen Shawn with Vader and Davey Boy and hasn’t seen Cole with anyone that large, so he sees Shawn as smaller than he is and maybe Cole as bigger. People carry themselves as different ways in your memory, and then you put them side-by-side.


----------



## Jazminator

bdon said:


> Cornette suggested Cole has a build similar to Shawn fucking Michaels!? Goddamn, what is he smoking!?
> 
> Adam Cole is smaller than I am!
> 
> His biases kill me sometimes.


I’m pretty sure Cornette meant similar build as in body type, not size.

Adam Cole resembles Shawn in body type, except he’s been shrunk in the dryer.


----------



## bdon

Jazminator said:


> I’m pretty sure Cornette meant similar build as in body type, not size.
> 
> Adam Cole resembles Shawn in body type, except he’s been shrunk in the dryer.


Hah.

Fair enough. I didn’t hear the comment, but I’ve seen Adam Cole’s size be a point of discussion before. It is offensive to hear anyone claim he looks like an athlete when he and Orange fucking Cassidy look to be of similar size and frame.


----------



## NathanMayberry

January 8th, NXT was at 721 K now they're at 759 K. AEW was at 947 K, now they're at 715 K.



NXT Only said:


> Y’all literally shit on the company in every thread
> 
> Sonny Kiss thread is y’all crapping on them
> FTR thread is y’all crapping on them
> Predictability thread is y’all crapping on them
> Horsemen thread is y’all crapping on them
> 
> And I’m the one misinterpreting things LMAO.


Go to any other section in the forum. Its what internet wrestling fans do.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Hah.
> 
> Fair enough. I didn’t hear the comment, but I’ve seen Adam Cole’s size be a point of discussion before. It is offensive to hear anyone claim he looks like an athlete when he and Orange fucking Cassidy look to be of similar size and frame.


Hey, you just kinda did it. There’s no way Adam Cole is the same frame as Orange Cassidy, haha. He’s billed at being a good two inches taller and 50lbs heavier. I’m sure it’s closer to 30lbs, given he doesn’t look out of place next to Daniel Bryan and he says he’s 190lbs apparently.


----------



## bdon

Adam Cole is probably 5’9” and 170-175 pounds, if I’m guessing. I’d guess Cassidy to be around the same height and roughly 160-ish pounds, due to him holding less fat around the stomach.

There is no way anyone is convincing me that Adam Cole is 190 pounds.


----------



## The Wood

Cassidy is 160lbs. Cole would have to be at least 180lbs. He's way thicker and a bit taller than Cassidy. There's no way he's that close to Cassidy in terms of weight.


----------



## zkorejo

Chip Chipperson said:


> And those goal posts move again.
> 
> "Orange Cassidy is a great wrestler and is going to be a future superstar!"
> 
> - Ratings absolutely tank
> 
> "C'mon man! It wasn't a fair fight! OC Vs Jericho wasn't even supposed to be their main event!"
> 
> If Cassidy was such a big star he and the legendary Jericho (Who is much more famous than both Cole and Lee) would've crushed NXT. Simple.


Jericho is definitely a bigger star than all three, but Cassidy is nowhere near as much developed or invested upon as Cole and Keith Lee. This is the first big thing the poor guy got to do and it seems like you all expected him to match NXT's top champions they have been building for months and years in Lee and Cole respectively. 

Isn't it universally agreed upon that NXT/AEW viewers are not Raw/SD casuals but hardcore wrestling audience? In that case, Jericho's stardom alone would only work so much on smarks. A big feud with big stakes with well developed wrestlers will always be considered better against a midcard feud with no stakes. 

It is completely fair for NXT to do it. My point was, NXT blew their load with Cole vs Lee. They dont have anything as big as that for now. And they did it to win TV Specials with 45000 more people viewing, whereas AEW still has alot of big stuff they can do which they are probably saving for the PPV.


----------



## rbl85

ripcitydisciple said:


> Isn't Shida kind of doing that?


Not really.

I would use Shanna to do that since she's already wearing a dragon ball Z gear.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> Jericho is definitely a bigger star than all three, but Cassidy is nowhere near as much developed or invested upon as Cole and Keith Lee. This is the first big thing the poor guy got to do and it seems like you all expected him to match NXT's top champions they have been building for months and years in Lee and Cole respectively.
> 
> Isn't it universally agreed upon that NXT/AEW viewers are not Raw/SD casuals but hardcore wrestling audience? In that case, Jericho's stardom alone would only work so much on smarks. A big feud with big stakes with well developed wrestlers will always be considered better against a midcard feud with no stakes.
> 
> It is completely fair for NXT to do it. My point was, NXT blew their load with Cole vs Lee. They dont have anything as big as that for now. And they did it to win TV Specials with 45000 more people viewing, whereas AEW still has alot of big stuff they can do which they are probably saving for the PPV.


Jericho never lost a segment to NXT. Then he got involved with Orange Cassidy.


----------



## NathanMayberry

zkorejo said:


> My point was, NXT blew their load with Cole vs Lee. They dont have anything as big as that for now.


People keep saying that yet it's the furthest thing from the truth. 

NXT has a massive roster and Raw and SD available to them and they can create a big match easily.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Cassidy is 160lbs. Cole would have to be at least 180lbs. He's way thicker and a bit taller than Cassidy. There's no way he's that close to Cassidy in terms of weight.


He is not taller. He’s roughly 5’9”, if that. Have you not missed these convos?


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> With the anime/manga becoming more and more popular do you guys think that maybe they should try a character looking like or having something related to the anime/manga ?
> 
> Might be a good way to gain young viewers


More popular with who?

Anime peaked decades ago. Dragon Ball Z finished its original run in 1996 and is still more popular than any new anime released since. Also AEW tried that with Riho and it killed their Women's division. Catering to weaboos is what played a role in chasing away their audience.


----------



## Dizzie

Cant help but think the only way is up for aew as long they fucking stop oc's push dead and drop back down the card with best friends.

Despite not liking the card this past Wednesday and skipping the show, had moxley vs cage been on it it's hard to not believe their rating would have been moderately improved and wouldn't have seen such a dramatic swing in the main event.

Next weeks card overall looks 
slightly better but still making glaring mistakes of having some one like kiss in a match with cody and stunt in there with omega. Had they just done the bucks vs luchasauras/jungle boy and cody vs pillman jr then that would be an entertaining card but aew cant help but act like a charity case for unwanted and untalented indie acts that drag the company's image down into looking very carny.


----------



## fabi1982

Because no one else did, here is the breakdown:
(Credit @Ozell Gray )

AEW Dynamite:

Q1: Private Party vs. Kenny Omega & Hangman Page – 785,000 viewers, 391,000 in 18-49
Q2: Joey Janela vs. Lance Archer – 695,000 viewers (down 90,000), 356,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)
Q3: End of Archer vs. Janela/Darby Allin promo/Taz & Brian Cage interview – 736,000 viewers (up 41,000), 373,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
Q4: The Young Bucks & FTR vs. The Lucha Bros, The Butcher & The Blade – 735,000 viewers (down 1,000), 379,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
Q5: Big Swole angle/Nyla Rose squash & promo – 705,000 viewers (down 30,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (down 28,000)
Q6: SCU vs. _Dark_ Order & Colt Cabana – 692,000 viewers (down 13,000), 351,000 in 18-49 (no change)
Q7: End of 6-Man Tag/Big Swole Angle/Next week hype – 695,000 viewers (up 3,000), 350,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q8: Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy – 675,000 viewers (down 20,000), 362,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
WWE NXT:
Q1: Mia Yim vs. Candice LeRae – 775,000 viewers, 235,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Yim vs. LeRae – 681,000 viewers (down 94,000), 226,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q3: Bronson Reed vs. Tony Nese/Robert Stone angle – 696,000 viewers (up 15,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)
Q4: Johnny Gargano vs. Isaiah Scott – 681,000 viewers (down 15,000), 225,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Q5: El Legado del Fantasma vs. Breezango & Drake Maverick – 757,000 viewers (up 76,000), 247,000 in 18-49 (up 22,000)
Q6: Mercedes Martinez vs. Santana Garrett – 741,000 viewers (down 16,000), 257,000 in 18-49 (up 10,000)
Q7: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 816,000 viewers (up 75,000), 312,000 in 18-49 (up 55,000)
Q8: Adam Cole vs. Keith Lee – 922,000 viewers (up 106,000), 359,000 in 18-49 (up 47,000)


----------



## shadow_spinner

fabi1982 said:


> Q5: El Legado del Fantasma vs. Breezango & Drake Maverick – 757,000 viewers (up 76,000), 247,000 in 18-49 (up 22,000)


Cruiserweights are a draw confirmed


----------



## RiverFenix

I have little doubt NXT leaked the finish of the match on purpose. They learned from Bischoff backfire announcing Mankind winning a taped Raw episode thinking it would hurt WWE. People like to see title changes - Cole dropping the NXT title was a big deal given the record length of his reign. I suspect it would have beat Moxley/Cage even and was counter booking even if HHH claims they don't do that. Why have Cole set-up to drop his title on an NXT weekly show they made speial only a couple weeks before to counter program FyterFest.


----------



## 3venflow

Biggest gain was for Darby's black-and-white promo and the Cage/Taz thing.

Said it in another thread, I think AEW needs to do more promos/storyline development in the ring and backstage.

As the current FOTC, Moxley (post-quarantine) should be having at least two segments per week if he isn't wrestling.

AEW has a bunch of guys who feel 'big league' and then there is this huge drop off to those with a massive indie aura about them... such as Janela and Sonny. The ratings perhaps tell the story.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> People keep saying that yet it's the furthest thing from the truth.
> 
> NXT has a massive roster and Raw and SD available to them and they can create a big match easily.


Yeah, I don’t know why people see NXT as so limited when it is AEW that has the finite roster they are burning through.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

shadow_spinner said:


> Cruiserweights are a draw confirmed


Definitely a missing element to Dynamite. They need a CW division for Darby/Sammy/Jungle Boy/Scorpio/Sammy/Starks/Pillman Jr, etc...great way to spark feuds and interest in those guys instead of always throwing them into lose against the heavyweights.


----------



## RiverFenix

3venflow said:


> Biggest gain was for Darby's black-and-white promo and the Cage/Taz thing.
> 
> Said it in another thread, I think AEW needs to do more promos/storyline development in the ring and backstage.
> 
> As the current FOTC, Moxley (post-quarantine) should be having at least two segments per week if he isn't wrestling.
> 
> AEW has a bunch of guys who feel 'big league' and then there is this huge drop off to those with a massive indie aura about them... such as Janela and Sonny. The ratings perhaps tell the story.


Definitely should be more vignette packages. I mean what do we know of Ricky Starks or Abaddon since they debuted on Dynamite? I mean one match and gone for both now. 

No reason for in front of crowd promo's either since there is no crowd - have a pretaped promo/vid package and air it in the place of the in-ring mic work.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Going to be interesting with a one night FFTF which has a better card than Fyter Fest


----------



## DaSlacker

1) Orange Cassidy should have been a heel for a good 18 months
2) They shouldn't have booked him in matches for a long time
3) Mudshow comedy wrestling doesn't and cannot really work without a proper audience

Booking 101. But these bookers are determined to against the grain.


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> You just described how WWE Raw has lost 65% of its audience in the last 5 years.
> 
> They created a show targeted at kids, hoping to reel in a younger demo. They failed, and in doing so drove away the remaining 18-49 demo they had left. So what are they left with? A show that has a terrible demo among the target demo, whose remaining viewers are all old loyalty based viewers. And most of these old people probably a functionally retarded since they are 55+ years old watching corny cartoonish garbage.


How is it targeted at kids?

Is there a single act outside new day that's selling shit to kids?

Where is the Hogan or Cena today. Last 5 years WWE has pushed Lesnar, it's pushed Rousey, it's given huge amount of time to stars from 20 years ago and signed indie talent. It certainly hasn't tried to garner kids at least nothing like the 80s or 2008-10 when Cena, Hornswoggle, dx, Mysterio, Hardy was selling truckloads of merch to kids.



> It’s why WWE Raw will be cancelled within 5 years, or they’ll have to take a TV contract very similar to Dynamite. The target demo doesn’t watch WWE anymore



USA aren't going to cancel their most watched show by a country mile.

Even if they got same deal as Dynamite that's approximately same money they were getting from NBC from 2014-19.

AEW get $22.5m per hour per year + half the ad revenue (normal episode of raw was generating about $1m in ad sales for USA in 2014 before WWE got blue chippers on board) so that's still over $100 million a year for Raw if they got exact same deal as Dynamite



NathanMayberry said:


> People keep saying that yet it's the furthest thing from the truth.
> 
> NXT has a massive roster and Raw and SD available to them and they can create a big match easily.


Look how quickly they got Lee and Ripley hot. I mean Ripley had just one match on NXT tv prior to nxt USA debut in September and she was maineventing 2 months later..


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Cassidy is 160lbs. Cole would have to be at least 180lbs. He's way thicker and a bit taller than Cassidy. There's no way he's that close to Cassidy in terms of weight.












The Bucks are billed as being 170 and 178 pounds. They’re thicket in the chest and arms.

As I’ve said multiple times, Adam Cole is somewhere in the size of a Jungle Boy/Cassidy.


----------



## validreasoning

Cassidy is not more than 5'6 140-150

He looked really small with 5'9 Jericho


----------



## NXT Only

Dark’s live stream did 335,000. That’s insane.


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> Dark’s live stream did 335,000. That’s insane.


They didn't even get close to that.

In fact, their current video doesn't have that many views.


----------



## ECFuckinW

TNT President Speaks Out on Wrestling Ratings: "We Sell Demos"


A high-ranking executive from TNT settled the argument over what's more important for wrestling, overall viewership or the 18-49 demographic.




bleedingcool.com







On the battlefields of the comments sections, Reddit, and Twitter, people are right this moment fighting over which number is more important and accusing each other, and journalists like Dave Meltzer, of bias in their emphasis on the key demo rating over total viewership. And AEW President Tony Khan whipped fans into a frenzy when he posted a series of tweets declaring victory in the wrestling ratings wars based on the demo rating. But for those who follow the business of television in general, not just from a pro wrestling lens, the answer is clear: the demographic rating is what matters because it's what networks use to sell advertising time. It's how the networks make their money, which dictates how much they're willing to pay a wrestling company for television rights, which is right now the primary revenue source for both AEW and WWE. And here's what a high-ranking television executive has to say about it.

"Households are completely meaningless to our business," said the president of Turner Entertainment Networks on the subject of which ratings numbers matter. "We sell demos, and almost every penny that we bring in on the Turner Entertainment Networks comes from our demographic performance—and that's probably true of virtually every other basic-cable network."

That statement was made by Brad Siegel, then-president of Turner, way back in 2002, in an interview with Multichannel.com, part of an article titled "The Most Desirable Demo," about the television industry's shift to treating that demographic as the most important measure of a television show's success. The previous year, Seigel played a major role in the decision that Turner should drop pro wrestling from its programming lineup and brand identity, which heralded the demise of WCW. Following the merger with AOL, Turner simply didn't see wrestling as valuable in the goal of reaching their target demos, even if the show was still relatively successful in terms of overall ratings (though not as successful as WWE, who had thoroughly trounced them by that time).

In 2002, the television world was undergoing a major shift from valuing the household rating to valuing the 18-49 demographic. Even when the household number was king, however, it wasn't a direct analog for viewership. The household rating counted the number of households with televisions tuned into a show. Viewership counts all people viewing, which often includes multiple members of a single household. But the point is that a reliance on the rating in the 18-49 demographic, which counts the percentage of people with televisions in that demographic group who watched a show, isn't something new. It's been the standard for the past two decades.

In 2019, TNT made a deal with AEW to bring pro wrestling back to the network eighteen years after the demise of WCW. By that time, attitudes had changed, and AEW's live wrestling programming was once again viewed as programming that could help reach the demographics TNT finds desirable. As long as AEW Dynamite continues to do well in that demo, the show will likely remain a success in the network's eyes. Well, unless Turner merges with AOL again.


Well there you have it Jericho is right and AEW is doing just fine.

Boom goes the TNT Dynamite


----------



## NathanMayberry

> *in 2002*


did he use a time machine to "speak out" against it? lol you people are definitely getting desperate.


----------



## ECFuckinW

NathanMayberry said:


> did he use a time machine to "speak out" against it? lol you people are definitely getting desperate.



I'd like to put emphasis on this part here as I'm sure you didnt read it.


In 2002, the television world was undergoing a major shift from valuing the household rating to valuing the 18-49 demographic. Even when the household number was king, however, it wasn't a direct analog for viewership. The household rating counted the number of households with televisions tuned into a show. Viewership counts all people viewing, which often includes multiple members of a single household. But the point is that a reliance on the rating in the 18-49 demographic, which counts the percentage of people with televisions in that demographic group who watched a show, isn't something new. It's been the standard for the past two decades.


----------



## Ozell Gray




----------



## NathanMayberry

ECFuckinW said:


> *In 2002*


Please tell me how a quote made in 2002, is him speaking out against wrestling ratings? 

In 2002, a 0.29 demo on for a show that was on during Prime Time would have been horrible and that show would have been soon cancelled.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Please tell me how a quote made in 2002, is him speaking out against wrestling ratings?
> 
> In 2002, a 0.29 demo on for a show that was on during Prime Time would have been horrible and that show would have been soon cancelled.


He used same headline as the article I agree coulda had a better one but the points made are valid.It shows that demographics are what matter the most.


----------



## ShadowCounter

NathanMayberry said:


> In 2002, a 0.29 demo on for a show that was on during Prime Time would have been horrible and that show would have been soon cancelled.


In 2002, cord cutting, DVR and streaming didn't exist. To compare 2002 ratings to today's is complete foolishness. The 18-49 demo is still king shit but networks aren't expecting 2002 sized numbers with the before mentioned realities effecting viewership.


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> Please tell me how a quote made in 2002, is him speaking out against wrestling ratings?
> 
> In 2002, a 0.29 demo on for a show that was on during Prime Time would have been horrible and that show would have been soon cancelled.


It's more pointing out that Cable networks have been on the demo. While a .29 in the demo in 2002 would be awful, you do have to take into account in 2020 that it's a pretty good demo. Comparing wrestling ratings to wrestling ratings of 20 years ago is super unfair. 

Now Khan and Jericho still look desperate going to Twitter to defend their win. But it is a win from their networks perspective.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

TKO Wrestling said:


> Definitely a missing element to Dynamite. They need a CW division for Darby/Sammy/Jungle Boy/Scorpio/Sammy/Starks/Pillman Jr, etc...great way to spark feuds and interest in those guys instead of always throwing them into lose against the heavyweights.


Isn't that what the TNT title was supposed to be for? Or at least that is what the fans felt that it was for was to have something for the midcard talent to do. If you use the Cruiserweight guidelines that is a still a majority of their roster.


----------



## Dizzie

You made a thread for this.... lol


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ShadowCounter said:


> In 2002, cord cutting, DVR and streaming didn't exist. To compare 2002 ratings to today's is complete foolishness. The 18-49 demo is still king shit but networks aren't expecting 2002 sized numbers with the before mentioned realities effecting viewership.


Yeah that would be insane the landscape is much different now you cant compare the time periods.The point of the article was that the demographic became the more important thing almost 20 years ago.Viewership is of course valued as well but what makes money is the demographic ratings and Aew has been killing it.



RapShepard said:


> It's more pointing out that Cable networks have been on the demo. While a .29 in the demo in 2002 would be awful, you do have to take into account in 2020 that it's a pretty good demo. Comparing wrestling ratings to wrestling ratings of 20 years ago is super unfair.
> 
> Now Khan and Jericho still look desperate going to Twitter to defend their win. But it is a win from their networks perspective.


Well said I agree


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dizzie said:


> You made a thread for this.... lol


And you're mad about it but still leave a comment.


----------



## bdon

validreasoning said:


> Cassidy is not more than 5'6 140-150
> 
> He looked really small with 5'9 Jericho


Jericho wears boots to make him taller.


----------



## elidrakefan76

How many men over 40 do you think still watch wrestling? I'm guessing it's a pretty small number so the range should probably be 18 to 40 instead of 18 to 49.


----------



## bdon

Y’all trying to make me defend Cassidy when that isn’t the case. Adam Cole is simply a super small fucker.


----------



## NXT Only

NathanMayberry said:


> They didn't even get close to that.
> 
> In fact, their current video doesn't have that many views.











411MANIA | AEW Dark Was Most Streamed Wrestling Show On Youtube Last Week


AEW Dark was the most-streamed wrestling show on Youtube last week, drawing 335,000 people ahead of The Bump and others...




411mania.com





Live stream of the show not the video they post after.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Bloody Warpath said:


> Isn't that what the TNT title was supposed to be for? Or at least that is what the fans felt that it was for was to have something for the midcard talent to do. If you use the Cruiserweight guidelines that is a still a majority of their roster.


No, I want to split the midcard up. TNT should be equal to US Title (WCW)/Intercontinental (WWF). What is missing is the CW title. 

World Title
TNT Title (hate this shit, with it was simply the US Title)
CW/X Division Title


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> It's more pointing out that Cable networks have been on the demo. While a .29 in the demo in 2002 would be awful, you do have to take into account in 2020 that it's a pretty good demo. Comparing wrestling ratings to wrestling ratings of 20 years ago is super unfair.
> 
> Now Khan and Jericho still look desperate going to Twitter to defend their win. But it is a win from their networks perspective.


The reason why I brought up the rating is because OP quoted made a thread stating that a TNT Executive is speaking out about AEW's ratings even though it was from a quote made in 2002. 

At the time the quote was made, AEW's current ratings wouldn't be worth talking about.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

Yes this is how the antiquated process has always been. But for the sake of this argument, as I and others have said, the difference in demo is not as drastic as some try to make it out to be. A 0.01 is considered a few thousand viewers wish in turn equals just a handful of Nielson boxes. Now if AEW was still above a 0.40 and NXT was under 0.20 then that could give some a little bit of bragging rights. As it stands currently they are fairly similar.


----------



## NathanMayberry

elidrakefan76 said:


> How many men over 40 do you think still watch wrestling? I'm guessing it's a pretty small number so the range should probably be 18 to 40 instead of 18 to 49.


The average age of an AEW viewer is only slightly lower than how old Jericho is today.


----------



## bdon

While I don’t doubt that TNT executives look at the demo, among other things, to use a fucking quote from 2002 reeks of desperation.

Like who are they trying to convince? Others...or themselves?

Projection is a motherfucker.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Bloody Warpath said:


> Yes this is how the antiquated process has always been. But for the sake of this argument, as I and others have said, the difference in demo is not as drastic as some try to make it out to be. A 0.01 is considered a few thousand viewers wish in turn equals just a handful of Nielson boxes. Now if AEW was still above a 0.40 and NXT was under 0.20 then that could give some a little bit of bragging rights. As it stands currently they are fairly similar.


Exactly. The difference between the two at this stage is neglible. 

How much more do you people think that 0.09 or <100,000 people out of 139 million is worth in terms of commercials?


----------



## Ozell Gray

This didn't prove anything since these comments being worked came from someone who worked for AOL-Time Warner 18 years ago. Brad Siegal has no clue of what AEW is so wuoting him to try and prove Tony Khan's point about 18-49 demo means more for Dynamite than viewership isn't bright especially since no modern day TNT executive have said that publicly.


----------



## Joe Gill

I dont think you guys have a clue how TV revenue works. When ratings are sky high like they were 20 years ago the ad inventory overall becomes over saturated... which means advertisers are will to pay less per ad view. When overall tv ratings decline it becomes more expensive for advertisers to show ads since there is more of a premium to get those eye balls. The only thing that matters is 1) ratings RELATIVE to other programs 2) key demo ratings (18-49) 3) overall state of economy...when corporations are big and profitable they have more money to spend advertising budgets. This is why WWE has massive tv deals compared to the attitude era even though ratings are down. TV revenue is super lucrative...especially live viewers.....Khan family understands this with their NFL ownership. As long as AEW continues to finish in the top 5-7 in the key demo ratings they will be fine. The bigger concern is the overall decline in ratings..if that trend continues and AEW drops out of top 10 for key demo they could be in trouble. I think once they start getting fans back in the arena their ratings should improve enough that they wont have to worry about being dropped by TNT. So I think they are safe...but they arent a smash hit either that can go head to head with RAW... there will be no real ratings war... only in the minds of internet geeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bloody Warpath said:


> Yes this is how the antiquated process has always been. But for the sake of this argument, as I and others have said, the difference in demo is not as drastic as some try to make it out to be. A 0.01 is considered a few thousand viewers wish in turn equals just a handful of Nielson boxes. Now if AEW was still above a 0.40 and NXT was under 0.20 then that could give some a little bit of bragging rights. As it stands currently they are fairly similar.


the demo can be extrapolated to all media though

if they win in the tv demo, they win in the online pirate demo, they win in the streaming demo, they win in the international demo (more contentious)

a % is a %

the demo is a representation of a calculation they call ‘the universe calculation’ - its all pretty stupid, but it is also why demo > total viewers in importance

0.28 - 0.20 = 0.08 / 0.20 = 40%

in basic terms, there is a 40% climb between the two numbers of universal people preferring Dynamite > NXT across all media - hence Dynamite trending over NXT for example on twitter every week

now.... lies lies and statistics 
but i’m letting you know how these guys think

a toy company with _in theory _make 40% more money by signing Dynamite toys over NXT. Cracker Barrel will get 40% more exposure in a sponsorship deal, etc etc


----------



## NXT Only

When the 2nd show officially starts and the talent pool is deeper I can see more belts since they’ll have more time to work the stories. Right now they don’t have the time to do.

But but but AEW is in danger of failing.


----------



## bdon

Getting fans to tune BACK into your show is very difficult thing to do. Once they check out, they usually don’t come back.

If NXT takes a lead as they seem to be closing in on AEW, then I fear loyalty will settle into NXT. Watched the very same thing occur in ‘98/99-ish with WCW.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *the demo can be extrapolated to all media though
> 
> if they win in the tv demo, they win in the online pirate demo, they win in the streaming demo, they win in the international demo (more contentious)*
> 
> a % is a %
> 
> the demo is a representation of a calculation they call ‘the universe calculation’ - its all pretty stupid, but it is also why demo > total viewers in importance
> 
> 0.28 - 0.20 = 0.08 / 0.20 = 40%
> 
> in basic terms, there is a 40% climb between the two numbers of universal people preferring Dynamite > NXT across all media - hence Dynamite trending over NXT for example on twitter every week
> 
> now.... lies lies and statistics
> but i’m letting you know how these guys think
> 
> a toy company with _in theory _make 40% more money by signing Dynamite toys over NXT. Cracker Barrel will get 40% more exposure in a sponsorship deal, etc etc


This is correct. They're top 10 in the demo and they are not even putting in PPV level effort in these Fyter Fest build-up shows or Fyter Fest itself. This will also eventually translate to increased PPV buy rates over time. Below is where they stand as of now. If they are doing the same amount of buys and even more as of DON2, during pandemic TV on top of that, it only means that the audience clearly hasn't left, they just stream instead. AEW is doing great for a 14-month-old wrestling promotion.

*AEW Double Or Nothing (2020):* 115,000 - 120,000
*AEW Revolution (2020):* 100,000 - 105,000
*AEW Full Gear (2019):* 100,000
*AEW All Out (2019):* 101,000
*AEW Double Or Nothing (2019):* 100,000 - 110,000
*AEW All In:* 50,000 - 55,000


----------



## Britz94xD

Can you give us a gist of what he said please.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Britz94xD said:


> Can you give us a gist of what he said please.


He said NXT was good but Dynamite was a trainreck.


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> 411MANIA | AEW Dark Was Most Streamed Wrestling Show On Youtube Last Week
> 
> 
> AEW Dark was the most-streamed wrestling show on Youtube last week, drawing 335,000 people ahead of The Bump and others...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live stream of the show not the video they post after.


Click on the video and then click on any other one of their videos.

Notice how it says Premiered as opposed to having just the date? This is the video they uploaded and streamed on Tuesday night. Also notice how there is a Chat replay feed on the side of the video. Those are from the live stream.

If Dark was getting 300,000 live stream viewers, that episode would easily have several million views and would be one of the top streamed videos in YouTube history. PewDiePie barely does that on his top videos: PewDiePie's 'Fortnite' Stream Brought in Over 300,000 Live Viewers.

Don't believe all the garbage Meltzer tells you.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> But when it isn't epic TV after Fight For The Fallen what will your new excuse be? Because 4-5 weeks ago people (Not sure if it was you) were saying that AEW would no doubt pick things up and start putting on killer TV in the lead up to FyterFest.
> 
> 
> AEW should be doing much more than 1.1 million people. I'm shocked people are happy with this.
> 
> Tony is a boob.


1.) I'm going off of history friend. Also, the fact that they have to convince people its worth $50 like they have done the last 4-5 PPV's. All of their major PPV builds have been "epic". What are you basing your suggestion that they won't turn up from? Pandemic TV and a build-up to a free special? I also don't remember anyone saying they would put on epic TV in the build up to Fyter Fest. I remember people pointing out AEW's trend of being lazy after major PPV's just like they were to last year's Fyter Fest build.

2.) They are doing more than 1.1 million overall man. So is NXT.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Exactly. The difference between the two at this stage is neglible.
> 
> How much more do you people think that 0.09 or <100,000 people out of 139 million is worth in terms of commercials?


Well if you look aew is actually quite higher I believe they were in the top 10 shows while nxt was not even top 20.That is a big difference when presenting numbers to advertisers.


----------



## NXT Only

NathanMayberry said:


> Click on the video and then click on any other one of their videos.
> 
> Notice how it says Premiered as opposed to having just the date? This is the video they uploaded and streamed on Tuesday night. Also notice how their is a Chat replay feed on the side of the video. Those are from the live stream.
> 
> If Dark was getting 300,000 live stream viewers, that episode would easily have several million views and would be one of the top streamed videos in YouTube history. PewDiePie barely does that on his top videos: PewDiePie's 'Fortnite' Stream Brought in Over 300,000 Live Viewers.
> 
> Don't believe all the garbage Meltzer tells you.


No.

Also, don’t believe Meltzer but listen to you, the cronies(Chip excluded) and Cornette? FOH.


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> No.
> 
> Also, don’t believe Meltzer but listen to you, the cronies(Chip excluded) and Cornette? FOH.


okay. dude. 


AEW Dark this week was one of the most streamed videos in YouTube history. Yet some how their new subscribers and video views are all down. All Elite Wrestling's YouTube Stats (Summary Profile) - Social Blade Stats


----------



## NXT Only

Man I can’t wait for crowds to come back. I miss this shit. Can’t believe it got crapped on.



NathanMayberry said:


> okay. dude.
> 
> 
> AEW Dark this week was one of the most streamed videos in YouTube history. Yet some how their new subscribers and video views are all down. All Elite Wrestling's YouTube Stats (Summary Profile) - Social Blade Stats


You finished?


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> How is it targeted at kids?
> 
> Is there a single act outside new day that's selling shit to kids?
> 
> Where is the Hogan or Cena today. Last 5 years WWE has pushed Lesnar, it's pushed Rousey, it's given huge amount of time to stars from 20 years ago and signed indie talent. It certainly hasn't tried to garner kids at least nothing like the 80s or 2008-10 when Cena, Hornswoggle, dx, Mysterio, Hardy was selling truckloads of merch to kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA aren't going to cancel their most watched show by a country mile.
> 
> Even if they got same deal as Dynamite that's approximately same money they were getting from NBC from 2014-19.
> 
> AEW get $22.5m per hour per year + half the ad revenue (normal episode of raw was generating about $1m in ad sales for USA in 2014 before WWE got blue chippers on board) so that's still over $100 million a year for Raw if they got exact same deal as Dynamite


A lot of people here aren’t going to like your valid reasoning. 



bdon said:


> View attachment 88714
> 
> 
> The Bucks are billed as being 170 and 178 pounds. They’re thicket in the chest and arms.
> 
> As I’ve said multiple times, Adam Cole is somewhere in the size of a Jungle Boy/Cassidy.


How many years ago is this? Plus, Cole looks way more muscular. If one of the Bucks is 178lbs, I’d say that Cole would top them, which is where I put him. 



NXT Only said:


> 411MANIA | AEW Dark Was Most Streamed Wrestling Show On Youtube Last Week
> 
> 
> AEW Dark was the most-streamed wrestling show on Youtube last week, drawing 335,000 people ahead of The Bump and others...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live stream of the show not the video they post after.


Don’t live streamers get included into the views when the video is embedded? 



NXT Only said:


> No.
> 
> Also, don’t believe Meltzer but listen to you, the cronies(Chip excluded) and Cornette? FOH.


Meltzer clearly has an agenda here. Fine reporter in the past or not, his record on AEW/NXT cannot be trusted. At least Cornette doesn’t have a dog in the fight, and his opinion turns out to be reflected in reality.

But how about you think for yourself? Instead of just gobbling up what people feed you, have a look around and see if it actually makes sense. “Did AEW get 335k live streamers?” Probably not, they don’t even have that many views. Whoever reported that is either lying or believed a lie. I’ll keep that in mind for next time.


----------



## NathanMayberry

NXT Only said:


> You finished?


Why come to a discussion forum and post lies without even putting any critical thought into what you're posting?

You can't provide any evidence that Dark had 300,000+ live stream viewers besides trusting Meltzer, even though Youtube and Google make all that information available to anyone who wants to see it. 

WWE The Bump isn't getting 200,000+ live stream viewers either.


----------



## bdon

NXT Only said:


> Man I can’t wait for crowds to come back. I miss this shit. Can’t believe it got crapped on.


Moxley vs Omega had the best action and character building moments, it just was not given the air time it deserved. Everything that occurred on television was told through physical storytelling, outside of the one promo Mox cut about Omega being Tony Khan’s Golden Boy.



The Wood said:


> A lot of people here aren’t going to like your valid reasoning.
> 
> 
> 
> How many years ago is this? Plus, Cole looks way more muscular. If one of the Bucks is 178lbs, I’d say that Cole would top them, which is where I put him.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t live streamers get included into the views when the video is embedded?
> 
> 
> 
> Meltzer clearly has an agenda here. Fine reporter in the past or not, his record on AEW/NXT cannot be trusted. At least Cornette doesn’t have a dog in the fight, and his opinion turns out to be reflected in reality.
> 
> But how about you think for yourself? Instead of just gobbling up what people feed you, have a look around and see if it actually makes sense. “Did AEW get 335k live streamers?” Probably not, they don’t even have that many views. Whoever reported that is either lying or believed a lie. I’ll keep that in mind for next time.


I have no clue when that was. He is more fit than they are, but they’re larger. If they actually hit the cardio more often and watched what they ate, cutting the fat, I would venture to say they’d be right around Cole’s size.

I mean, there are photos with he and Britt together, and their arms are nearly the same size, man.

I ain’t using this as some way to shit on Cole as a performer. He takes his craft seriously enough given his lengthy reign as champion. I’ve only ever watched him in the War Games match from November, but dude is super tiny.

And I would almost guarantee he and Cassidy are the same size, give or take 5-10 pounds.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> You finished?


We’ve got another Pippen. Get caught with a lie and just want to move on.


----------



## bdon

Either way, they’re both fucking runts, Hah


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I have no clue when that was. He is more fit than they are, but they’re larger. If they actually hit the cardio more often and watched what they ate, cutting the fat, I would venture to say they’d be right around Cole’s size.
> 
> I mean, there are photos with he and Britt together, and their arms are nearly the same size, man.
> 
> I ain’t using this as some way to shit on Cole as a performer. He takes his craft seriously enough given his lengthy reign as champion. I’ve only ever watched him in the War Games match from November, but dude is super tiny.
> 
> And I would almost guarantee he and Cassidy are the same size, give or take 5-10 pounds.


No, I’m not saying you are shitting on him — I think he could definitely use more mass and a better physique myself — I just don’t agree that he’s the same size as Orange Cassidy. That guy is diminutive. Cole is just a normal guy. Bryan didn’t look out of place with Jericho. Cole didn’t look out of place with Bryan. Cassidy looked WAY out of place with Jericho.



bdon said:


> Either way, they’re both fucking runts, Hah


Adam Cole is a superstar trapped in a nightclub bartender’s body.


----------



## Prosper

The article says that AEW Dark last week was the most *streamed* guys. Not live streamed. It means that it got the most views last week amongst the other shows.

There's "streaming", and then there's "live streaming". Streaming would be watching a pirated movie or TV series, live streaming would be exactly that, live. 2 different things, hence the article that says AEW Dark is the most streamed.

AEW Dark was most streamed, but if it was live with 300K+ viewers, that would be rivaling app streaming numbers for Dynamite, which AEW Dark cannot do.

There's no lie or "agenda" in the article. Its exactly right.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> The article says that AEW Dark last week was the most *streamed* guys. Not live streamed. It means that it got the most views last week amongst the other shows.
> 
> There's "streaming", and then there's "live streaming". Streaming would be watching a pirated movie or TV series, live streaming would be exactly that, live. 2 different things, hence the article that says AEW Dark is the most streamed.
> 
> AEW Dark was most streamed, but if it was live with 300K+ viewers, that would be rivaling app streaming numbers for Dynamite, which AEW Dark cannot do.


That’s what people are saying. It doesn’t even have the streamed views to have that many live streamers, which you agree with. I’m not even going to read the bullshit article, so I’m just going with what people are talking about here, but I think it’s safe to say that it can thoroughly be dismissed as bullshit?

Did the article actually come from Meltzer? Because, if so, people should make a note of that. He talks to the AEW guys. Someone is lying here. Either Meltzer made it up or AEW did.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> No, I’m not saying you are shitting on him — I think he could definitely use more mass and a better physique myself — I just don’t agree that he’s the same size as Orange Cassidy. That guy is diminutive. Cole is just a normal guy. Bryan didn’t look out of place with Jericho. Cole didn’t look out of place with Bryan. Cassidy looked WAY out of place with Jericho.


Two things here:

- I pulled up a photo of Bryan and Jericho, and you’re right. He doesn’t look out of place with an in much better shape Jericho. Jericho has probably added what looks to be 15-20 pounds of fat. 15-20 pounds of fat is a lot.

- That is Daniel Bryan next to a 225-230 ish Jericho, but Bryan is clearly smaller. Cole is clearly smaller than Bryan.

You may be right, and Cole has greater bone density, which could attribute to a larger scale weight, but they look to be built almost the exact same.

Not a knock either. I’m 5’10”, 175 pounds. I know I look good haha, but I’m most certainly not being compared to Shawn Michaels.

But again, your explanation about Cole’s size looking similar RELATIVE TO THE COMPETITION, I can agree with.



The Wood said:


> Adam Cole is a superstar trapped in a nightclub bartender’s body.


As you’ll see in my previous post, I claim the same thing. Haha


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> That’s what people are saying. It doesn’t even have the streamed views to have that many live streamers, which you agree with. I’m not even going to read the bullshit article, so I’m just going with what people are talking about here, but I think it’s safe to say that it can thoroughly be dismissed as bullshit?
> 
> Did the article actually come from Meltzer? Because, if so, people should make a note of that. He talks to the AEW guys. Someone is lying here. Either Meltzer made it up or AEW did.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what people are arguing then. The article doesn't say "live", so it's not bullshit, it's accurate. They really did win last week with the Youtube streaming numbers. People just misread it I think.


----------



## The Wood

“That statement was made by Brad Siegel, then-president of Turner, way back in 2002...”

Hahaha! And the rest of it is just an opinion piece by someone who, as far as I can tell, has no affiliation with TNT. That articles like this are coming out with headlines like this, it really does highlight the insecurity around AEW’s slipping performance.

They didn’t top 400k viewers in the “key demo” on Wednesday. Those people are also probably closer to 50 than 18. This “damage control” is insane.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> “That statement was made by Brad Siegel, then-president of Turner, way back in 2002...”
> 
> Hahaha! And the rest of it is just an opinion piece by someone who, as far as I can tell, has no affiliation with TNT. That articles like this are coming out with headlines like this, it really does highlight the insecurity around AEW’s slipping performance.
> 
> They didn’t top 400k viewers in the “key demo” on Wednesday. Those people are also probably closer to 50 than 18. This “damage control” is insane.


I mean you don't have to read anything outside of the 2002 quote. The argument here is that demos have been the only real thing that has mattered for the last 18 years. Which I have repeatedly said in the ratings thread for weeks being that I'm in the business. You only need to read the quote and not the "opinionated" part of the article to see that. These articles are coming out now because social media is going crazy with this ratings war and these wrestling news outlets are taking advantage of the increased web traffic of people searching ratings content in the last 6 months. That's the only reason. There's no reason for damage control when there's no damage. Have you looked at the Twitter pages? Even TNT's twitter is being blown up by fans.


----------



## elidrakefan76

NathanMayberry said:


> The average age of an AEW viewer is only slightly lower than how old Jericho is today.


Wow, I wasn't aware of that. But then again I can see myself in my 60's or even 70's if I'm still alive, camped out in front of the tv watching some wrestling. I think that's pretty cool.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean you don't have to read anything outside of the 2002 quote. The argument here is that demos have been the only real thing that has mattered for the last 18 years. Which I have repeatedly said in the ratings thread for weeks being that I'm in the business. You only need to read the quote and not the "opinionated" part of the article to see that. These articles are coming out now because social media is going crazy with this ratings war and these wrestling news outlets are taking advantage of the increased web traffic of people searching ratings content in the last 6 months. That's the only reason. There's no reason for damage control when there's no damage. Have you looked at the Twitter pages? Even TNT's twitter is being blown up by fans.


There’s nothing but the 2002 quote in there. It’s literally that and Jude’s opinion misrepresented as a TNT executive “speaking out.”

You’re not the only person in media, mate. You’re getting dangerously close to “As a (such and such)...”. Being in a job doesn’t necessarily mean you’re an expert. I’ve been nice, but there is plenty wrong with your logic and how you apply things.

Things aren’t “blowing up.” Also, in the ratings thread, you affirmed something myself and others have been saying — cable isn’t the best way to target these demos in 2020. _No one_ says demos aren’t important, by the way. People have just pointed out that habits and society has shifted, and cable may have more value targeting older demos, that financial prosperity has possibly changed in 20 years, spending habits have likely modified, and there are better ways to target certain demos. Viewership is also not unimportant, as AEW apologists make out. 

The only way this article has contemporary value is if you try to assert that nothing has changed in 18 years, and we both know that’s bullshit, and you’ve said as much.

I can’t wait for the excuses when NXT starts winning the demos.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Joe Gill said:


> I dont think you guys have a clue how TV revenue works. When ratings are sky high like they were 20 years ago the ad inventory overall becomes over saturated... which means advertisers are will to pay less per ad view. When overall tv ratings decline it becomes more expensive for advertisers to show ads since there is more of a premium to get those eye balls. The only thing that matters is 1) ratings RELATIVE to other programs 2) key demo ratings (18-49) 3) overall state of economy...when corporations are big and profitable they have more money to spend advertising budgets. This is why WWE has massive tv deals compared to the attitude era even though ratings are down. TV revenue is super lucrative...especially live viewers.....Khan family understands this with their NFL ownership. As long as AEW continues to finish in the top 5-7 in the key demo ratings they will be fine. The bigger concern is the overall decline in ratings..if that trend continues and AEW drops out of top 10 for key demo they could be in trouble. I think once they start getting fans back in the arena their ratings should improve enough that they wont have to worry about being dropped by TNT. So I think they are safe...but they arent a smash hit either that can go head to head with RAW... there will be no real ratings war... only in the minds of internet geeks.


Excellent post


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> There’s nothing but the 2002 quote in there. It’s literally that and Jude’s opinion misrepresented as a TNT executive “speaking out.”


Yes I was agreeing with you.



The Wood said:


> You’re not the only person in media, mate. You’re getting dangerously close to “As a (such and such)...”. Being in a job doesn’t necessarily mean you’re an expert.* I’ve been nice, but there is plenty wrong with your logic and how you apply things.*


Like what? I'm not saying I'm an expert. The whole crux of my argument is that there are a lot of illegal viewers for all the shows and that cable ratings are not an indicator of the ENTIRE wrestling audience. Why would I make that argument if people like you weren't saying that AEW lost half their audience and that their 700K numbers were the entire picture? The other main part of my argument was that the digital age has changed the way we watch TV, especially for the younger audience. Do you disagree with either point?



The Wood said:


> Things aren’t “blowing up.”


The ratings war is definitely more of a talking point now than it has been since the start of all of this Wednesday night stuff. So how is that not "blowing up"?



The Wood said:


> Also, in the ratings thread, you affirmed something myself and others have been saying — cable isn’t the best way to target these demos in 2020. _No one_ says demos aren’t important, by the way. People have just pointed out that habits and society has shifted, and cable may have more value targeting older demos, that financial prosperity has possibly changed in 20 years, spending habits have likely modified, and there are better ways to target certain demos. Viewership is also not unimportant, as AEW apologists make out.


Oh yeah? Because before we started talking about demos and multiple people started talking about what the ratings mean, you were _really_ shitting on AEW and all of its numbers. You twisted everything into a negative. More than anyone in the IWC I'm sure. Don't go back now for the sake of arguing. I'm sure you have implied on multiple occasions that demos aren't important and that overall cable numbers meant that "NXT won". Every single one of your posts carries the vibe of malicious intent towards AEW. Whether its ratings, content, anything.



The Wood said:


> The only way this article has contemporary value is if you try to assert that nothing has changed in 18 years, and we both know that’s bullshit, and you’ve said as much.


That's what most of your posts imply though, I haven't seen you once give AEW any credit. Even your friends bdon & Chipperson have their moments.



The Wood said:


> I can’t wait for the excuses when NXT starts winning the demos.


Why so you can shit talk some more and "stick it" to the fans?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Aew is a top 10 show nxt was what 27th???


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yes I was agreeing with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Like what? I'm not saying I'm an expert. The whole crux of my argument is that there are a lot of illegal viewers for all the shows and that cable ratings are not an indicator of the ENTIRE wrestling audience. The other main part of my argument was that the digital age has changed the way we watch TV, especially for the younger audience. Do you disagree with either point?
> 
> 
> 
> The ratings war is definitely more of a talking point now than it has been since the start of all of this Wednesday night stuff. So how is that not "blowing up"?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah? Because before we started talking about demos and multiple people started talking about what the ratings mean, you were _really_ shitting on AEW and all of its numbers. You twisted everything into a negative. More than anyone in the IWC I'm sure. Don't go back now for the sake of arguing. I'm sure you have implied on multiple occasions that demos aren't important and that overall cable numbers meant that "NXT won". Every single one of your posts carries the vibe of malicious intent towards AEW. Whether its ratings, content, anything.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what most of your posts imply though, I haven't seen you once give AEW any credit. Even your friends bdon & Chipperson have their moments.
> 
> 
> 
> Why so you can shit talk some more and "stick it" to the fans?


@The Wood, you are guilty of refusing to give them any credit for whatever numbers they have had.

Scratch that. You didn’t try to argue the numbers when AEW handed NXT that ass a few times. Everything else, though, you have caveats to.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 0.28 - 0.20 = 0.08 / 0.20 = 40%


Sorry but your math is just wrong and I hope you know that. How does it make sense to devide the gap by the smaller of the two?

to get the gap you do 0.2/0.28, thats 71.5%, so the gap is 28.5%. Still big, but why do math wrongon purpose? Or is this how the AEW marks do get their confidence?


----------



## Dizzie

Ozell Gray said:


> And you're mad about it but still leave a comment.


More like laughable


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dizzie said:


> More like laughable


Its laughable that you commented about something in a thread just so you complain.


----------



## go stros

rating don't mean as much as they use to. We are in the age of the DVR. Its just as much if not more about +3 and +7.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding what people are arguing then. The article doesn't say "live", so it's not bullshit, it's accurate. They really did win last week with the Youtube streaming numbers. People just misread it I think.


Well clearly it was written in a way that readers could imply that those were live numbers because that's exactly what NXT Only did.


----------



## ECFuckinW

NathanMayberry said:


> The average age of an AEW viewer is only slightly lower than how old Jericho is today.


That's not true


----------



## NathanMayberry

ECFuckinW said:


> That's not true


According to Dave Meltzer, it is 48. 









411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Imagine having to go back almost 20 years to find a quote that suits the "AEW is fine" agenda and then proceeding to hang your hat on a 0.03 victory in the demographics.

Give it another 6 months and NXT will probably be pumping AEW in the demographic as well. Then everyone in this thread will be arguing "B-B-But streaming numbers!".


----------



## ECFuckinW

NathanMayberry said:


> According to Dave Meltzer, it is 48.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite
> 
> 
> Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com


I apologize you are correct the average age of AEW fans is indeed 48 which is actually the youngest audience in wrestling.










411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com





The demographic numbers measured include live and same day through DVR. While AEW still has the youngest average audience in wrestling, that median age is 48 (69% male). RAW is the second youngest (51, 64% male), followed by Smackdown (54, 60% male) and NXT (56, 64% male).



Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine having to go back almost 20 years to find a quote that suits the "AEW is fine" agenda and then proceeding to hang your hat on a 0.03 victory in the demographics.
> 
> Give it another 6 months and NXT will probably be pumping AEW in the demographic as well. Then everyone in this thread will be arguing "B-B-But streaming numbers!".


Sorry chip but AEW was a top 10 show and NXT wasnt even top 20.

AEW will be doing better once crowds return dont worry hehehe


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Well clearly it was written in a way that readers could imply that those were live numbers because that's exactly what NXT Only did.


Hey man any idea why league tables are based on the 18-49 demo? I’d love to know.

Can someone tell me why the league tables are based on the 18-49 demo?


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Aew is a top 10 show nxt was what 27th???


You’re focusing on the rank and not the difference. The gap between AEW and NXT is often VERY small. A 0.01 change can affect ranking greatly.



bdon said:


> @The Wood, you are guilty of refusing to give them any credit for whatever numbers they have had.
> 
> Scratch that. You didn’t try to argue the numbers when AEW handed NXT that ass a few times. Everything else, though, you have caveats to.


There’s no guilt about it. I am not impressed by their ratings as it pertains _to wrestling_, and I don’t feel an obligation to be.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Yes I was agreeing with you.


Okay, cool. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> Like what? I'm not saying I'm an expert. The whole crux of my argument is that there are a lot of illegal viewers for all the shows and that cable ratings are not an indicator of the ENTIRE wrestling audience. Why would I make that argument if people like you weren't saying that AEW lost half their audience and that their 700K numbers were the entire picture? The other main part of my argument was that the digital age has changed the way we watch TV, especially for the younger audience. Do you disagree with either point?


No, and no one has or would. What an incredibly vacuous and obvious thing to say. Has anyone said anything to the contrary? And that would go for any televised wrestling brand. But we’ve obviously talking about the part of the iceberg that’s visible. Why would you bring up anything else like it was a necessary point?

They have lost about half their live viewers. That’s what we’ve been discussing.



prosperwithdeen said:


> The ratings war is definitely more of a talking point now than it has been since the start of all of this Wednesday night stuff. So how is that not "blowing up"?


I’m sure more people are talking about the anime One Piece since it started on Netflix too. It doesn’t mean it’s “blowing up.” It’s topical for wrestling fans, albeit mildly



prosperwithdeen said:


> Oh yeah? Because before we started talking about demos and multiple people started talking about what the ratings mean, you were _really_ shitting on AEW and all of its numbers. You twisted everything into a negative. More than anyone in the IWC I'm sure. Don't go back now for the sake of arguing. I'm sure you have implied on multiple occasions that demos aren't important and that overall cable numbers meant that "NXT won". Every single one of your posts carries the vibe of malicious intent towards AEW. Whether its ratings, content, anything.


Yes, more than anyone in the “IWC” I am the absolute worst. You’re making up something that “you’re sure” I said to try and dismiss it. That is the very definition of a straw-man.

No one has ever said that demos aren’t useful. If you can get people watching in any demo it is obviously useful. That has ALWAYS been my point beyond people taking ratings too literally due to their variance and unreliability, and not appreciating how much more intricately advertisers might look at a property. The only dismissing of a demo you will see is the dismissal of the 50+ demo by AEW fanatics who don’t like being beaten anywhere and can’t accept that the average age of the AEW viewer is only about ten years younger than the average age of the NXT viewer. You’ll also see viewership dismissed in the dying days of cable by these people, because it’s an area they can also be beaten in. The “key demo” would be dismissed too if NXT started winning that. And we will see that, I’m sure.

When you’re choosing to advertise through cable, you take what you can get in 2020. If you can get a young, diverse demo, sure, that’s great. But there are better ways to target them. And there is more to that than just reading a Showbuzz chart. That’s why NXT seems to have “cooler” sponsors than AEW. But AEW fanatics act as if AEW is drinking from the fountain of youth with <400k people, most of them probably closer to 50 than 18, willing this program to be great.

NXT is going to win, as it stands, because it’s the superior product with the superior strategy. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> That's what most of your posts imply though, I haven't seen you once give AEW any credit. Even your friends bdon & Chipperson have their moments.


Credit for what? Does praising Cody vs. Dustin, MJF and Jungle Boy count? Because that’s “credit.” I don’t know what other credit I’m obligated to give them.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Why so you can shit talk some more and "stick it" to the fans?


Sure. The Germans have a word for it. They’ve brought it on themselves. Jericho and Khan crying about how it’s all that matters, the fans crying that it’s all that matters. When you live by the sword, die by the sword.



optikk sucks said:


> Can someone tell me why the league tables are based on the 18-49 demo?


Because Showbuzz is an entertainment gossip website, essentially, that generates its own revenue through advertising and clicks, sharing readily accessible information to create a sense of news, even if it’s largely archaic.

Nielsen themselves seem far more interested in ethnicity, sexuality and cultural background than simple age or gender in 2020. Why is that not reported on Showbuzz?

It’s like writing an academic essay and citing the E! Hollywood Reporter instead of peer-reviewed research.



optikk sucks said:


> Hey man any idea why league tables are based on the 18-49 demo? I’d love to know.


Any idea why the magazines I see tell me that Harry and Kate have split up on the cover when they haven’t?


----------



## ECFuckinW

Big difference between a top 10 show and a top 30


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Man will it be funny when AEW starts to lose the 18-49 demographic. I can't wait for this thread when that happens.




3venflow said:


> Biggest gain was for Darby's black-and-white promo and the Cage/Taz thing.
> 
> Said it in another thread, I think AEW needs to do more promos/storyline development in the ring and backstage.
> 
> As the current FOTC, Moxley (post-quarantine) should be having at least two segments per week if he isn't wrestling.
> 
> AEW has a bunch of guys who feel 'big league' and then there is this huge drop off to those with a massive indie aura about them... such as Janela and Sonny. The ratings perhaps tell the story.


Give him multiple segments even when he is wrestling. I used to love the segment where the champion arrives at the arena and the announcers start hyping the main event.

"Rikishi has just arrived at the arena King and he's looking focused ahead of his match tonight with Big Show that we'll all see later tonight in the main event!"

30 seconds of TV time but promotes the main event, gets your main event over and your top guy on TV.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> You’re focusing on the rank and not the difference. The gap between AEW and NXT is often VERY small. A 0.01 change can affect ranking greatly.
> 
> 
> 
> There’s no guilt about it. I am not impressed by their ratings as it pertains _to wrestling_, and I don’t feel an obligation to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, cool.
> 
> 
> 
> No, and no one has or would. What an incredibly vacuous and obvious thing to say. Has anyone said anything to the contrary? And that would go for any televised wrestling brand. But we’ve obviously talking about the part of the iceberg that’s visible. Why would you bring up anything else like it was a necessary point?
> 
> They have lost about half their live viewers. That’s what we’ve been discussing.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure more people are talking about the anime One Piece since it started on Netflix too. It doesn’t mean it’s “blowing up.” It’s topical for wrestling fans, albeit mildly
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, more than anyone in the “IWC” I am the absolute worst. You’re making up something that “you’re sure” I said to try and dismiss it. That is the very definition of a straw-man.
> 
> No one has ever said that demos aren’t useful. If you can get people watching in any demo it is obviously useful. That has ALWAYS been my point beyond people taking ratings too literally due to their variance and unreliability, and not appreciating how much more intricately advertisers might look at a property. The only dismissing of a demo you will see is the dismissal of the 50+ demo by AEW fanatics who don’t like being beaten anywhere and can’t accept that the average age of the AEW viewer is only about ten years younger than the average age of the NXT viewer. You’ll also see viewership dismissed in the dying days of cable by these people, because it’s an area they can also be beaten in. The “key demo” would be dismissed too if NXT started winning that. And we will see that, I’m sure.
> 
> When you’re choosing to advertise through cable, you take what you can get in 2020. If you can get a young, diverse demo, sure, that’s great. But there are better ways to target them. And there is more to that than just reading a Showbuzz chart. That’s why NXT seems to have “cooler” sponsors than AEW. But AEW fanatics act as if AEW is drinking from the fountain of youth with <400k people, most of them probably closer to 50 than 18, willing this program to be great.
> 
> NXT is going to win, as it stands, because it’s the superior product with the superior strategy.
> 
> 
> 
> Credit for what? Does praising Cody vs. Dustin, MJF and Jungle Boy count? Because that’s “credit.” I don’t know what other credit I’m obligated to give them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. The Germans have a word for it. They’ve brought it on themselves. Jericho and Khan crying about how it’s all that matters, the fans crying that it’s all that matters. When you live by the sword, die by the sword.


Lmao dude you're fu*kin mental. You win.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I understand the 0.03 lead AEW has is very important to some but feel it's important to mention that AEW should be absolutely killing NXT ratings wise. Keep in mind Chris Jericho by himself has accomplished more than everyone else on the NXT roster (Possibly combined)


----------



## NathanMayberry

ECFuckinW said:


> Big difference between a top 10 show and a top 30


Less than <0.1 percent of 138 million is not a big difference.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Give him multiple segments even when he is wrestling. I used to love the segment where the champion arrives at the arena and the announcers start hyping the main event.
> 
> "Rikishi has just arrived at the arena King and he's looking focused ahead of his match tonight with Big Show that we'll all see later tonight in the main event!"
> 
> 30 seconds of TV time but promotes the main event, gets your main event over and your top guy on TV.


This is one thing I can definitely admit that AEW is lacking. Backstage segments like that have always been awesome and I want to see AEW do more of them. It would really hype up stars on TV. I think the last real backstage segment they did was the one where Moxley was mad at Tony Khan because his match with Omega was gonna be unsanctioned.


----------



## The Wood

What do you think the excuses are going to be when AEW starts losing the demographic?

My guess is “It’s all digital.” They’ll all be watching online and on apps that don’t release their data. Another candidate is “ratings don’t matter” as a complete blanket statement. Not with thought put into it like Cult does, where he questions how reliable they are at all, and whether they imply a good show or not. It will just be “who even cares about ratings?!” in the ratings thread.



NathanMayberry said:


> Less than <0.1 percent of 138 million is not a big difference.


It’s crazy that people don’t get that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> What do you think the excuses are going to be when AEW starts losing the demographic?
> 
> My guess is “It’s all digital.” They’ll all be watching online and on apps that don’t release their data. Another candidate is “ratings don’t matter” as a complete blanket statement. Not with thought put into it like Cult does, where he questions how reliable they are at all, and whether they imply a good show or not. It will just be “who even cares about ratings?!” in the ratings thread.


I'm going with "AEW is getting (Insert massive number here) of people on their streaming services. The AEW fans are younger and therefore are more okay with streaming. It's the times now!". They will of course ignore that Meltzer said the average AEW fan is aged 45.

Ratings don't matter is a fair shout though. I can see it going that way a little bit also.


----------



## The Wood

They’re all watching on streaming is an excellent one.


----------



## ECFuckinW

NathanMayberry said:


> Less than <0.1 percent of 138 million is not a big difference.


It is when it comes to advertising saying your show is the #7 compared to 27th is big difference my friend lol.



Chip Chipperson said:


> I understand the 0.03 lead AEW has is very important to some but feel it's important to mention that AEW should be absolutely killing NXT ratings wise. Keep in mind Chris Jericho by himself has accomplished more than everyone else on the NXT roster (Possibly combined)


Aew has beaten raw and smackdown in demographics before too


----------



## DaSlacker

TNT are likely to be relatively more pleased with AEW for winning the demo and (most of the time) viewership than you think. These suits ain't likely to follow wrestling of understand the intrinsics. They jumped on the weekly outsourced live entertainment bandwagon after being encouraged by Tony Khan that he could provide it. Juggernaut WWE went head to head with a head start and AEW held their own. Offset somewhat by dropping 650,000 viewers, but that would be offset by global pandemic situation. All said, I reckon WarnerMedia are happy enough with the partnership and near 1 million viewers (inc DVR) as HBO Max becomes more important to the company.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Does anybody think TNT is getting paid significantly more in ad revenue than USA for a mere 20,000 fans in the demo? 

Do you guys really think ad execs look at the rankings and see AEW at 7th and NXT at 27th and say "let's buy a million dollars worth of space on TNT, let's only buy $100K on USA"? 

You don't think they crunch the numbers themselves and say ".03 in the demo is barely any difference at all, let's buy the same amount of ads on both networks"? 

Have you guys considered that the demo really might not be the end-all to individual advertisers-- Tucker Carlson smokes AEW in the demo but I doubt you'll see a lot of Mountain Dew ads on Fox News, you will see a ton of ads for painless catheters though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Does anybody think TNT is getting paid significantly more in ad revenue than USA for a mere 20,000 fans in the demo?
> 
> Do you guys really think ad execs look at the rankings and see AEW at 7th and NXT at 27th and say "let's buy a million dollars worth of space on TNT, let's only buy $100K on USA"?
> 
> You don't think they crunch the numbers themselves and say ".03 in the demo is barely any difference at all, let's buy the same amount of ads on both networks"?
> 
> Have you guys considered that the demo really might not be the end-all to individual advertisers-- Tucker Carlson smokes AEW in the demo but I doubt you'll see a lot of Mountain Dew ads on Fox News, you will see a ton of ads for painless catheters though.


NXT might even command a higher price per ad with a lower demo

it is also channel dependent - but thats not really what we‘re talking about?

only way to know which show is ‘worth more’ is to see rate cards From the channels

don’t think those are just lying around these days

that’s really why ratings is such a silly discussion - we know 10% of the data and metrics

but it is a fun one


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Does anybody think TNT is getting paid significantly more in ad revenue than USA for a mere 20,000 fans in the demo?
> 
> Do you guys really think ad execs look at the rankings and see AEW at 7th and NXT at 27th and say "let's buy a million dollars worth of space on TNT, let's only buy $100K on USA"?


I'd argue that advertisers would pay more for NXT because it's a bigger brand, part of the WWE, the WWE network and has a loyal fan base behind it whilst AEW is a growing brand and has a fan base that isn't that loyal yet.


----------



## The Wood

ECFuckinW said:


> It is when it comes to advertising saying your show is the #7 compared to 27th is big difference my friend lol.


And then they'll ask "How much difference is there between them?", find out it's 0.03 or whatever, and scoff. And possibly be pissed off it it was misrepresented to them.



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Does anybody think TNT is getting paid significantly more in ad revenue than USA for a mere 20,000 fans in the demo?
> 
> Do you guys really think ad execs look at the rankings and see AEW at 7th and NXT at 27th and say "let's buy a million dollars worth of space on TNT, let's only buy $100K on USA"?
> 
> You don't think they crunch the numbers themselves and say ".03 in the demo is barely any difference at all, let's buy the same amount of ads on both networks"?
> 
> Have you guys considered that the demo really might not be the end-all to individual advertisers-- Tucker Carlson smokes AEW in the demo but I doubt you'll see a lot of Mountain Dew ads on Fox News, you will see a ton of ads for painless catheters though.


It's like they actually do.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> NXT might even command a higher price per ad with a lower demo
> 
> it is also channel dependent - but thats not really what we‘re talking about?
> 
> only way to know which show is ‘worth more’ is to see rate cards From the channels
> 
> don’t think those are just lying around these days
> 
> that’s really why ratings is such a silly discussion - we know 10% of the data and metrics
> 
> but it is a fun one


This is your best post to date. That's absolutely correct. Well, we can make educated guesses with applied reason. And why do I get the feeling this is going to be your line if NXT starts beating AEW in the demo? "We only know 10% of the data and metrics." Lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> "We only know 10% of the data and metrics." Lol.


they’ve already beaten them in the demo once this year i think

my response would be the same as it was that time

🤷‍♂️ ‘Cool i guess, can’t wait to watch next week’

i talk numbers for fun / i don‘t let it influence my enjoyment

it can get impact numbers for all i care, as long as i get to watch it


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they’ve already beaten them in the demo once this year i think
> 
> my response would be the same as it was that time
> 
> 🤷‍♂️ ‘Cool i guess, can’t wait to watch next week’
> 
> i talk numbers for fun / i don‘t let it influence my enjoyment
> 
> it can get impact numbers for all i care, as long as i get to watch it


Hey, good for you, if that's the case.

Cornette has actually been quite critical of NXT too. It doesn't insult the intelligence as much, but Keith Lee vs. Adam Cole is all he really praised strongly. He's looking forward to Damian Priest vs. Cameron Grimes next week (he's been supportive of both). NXT's main event destroying AEW's would not surprise him in the slightest. 

By the way, for those who caught it, there was a hint dropped as to how many people listen to Cornette's podcast every week. I won't give it away to anyone who missed it, but it seems to be a lot more than people think. Far from being "irrelevant."


----------



## Cult03

ECFuckinW said:


> Aew has beaten raw and smackdown in demographics before too


And so they should. Raw and SD sucks for the most part. AEW and their fans made promises that AEW aren't even close to fulfilling unfortunately. AEW should be competing with WWE's top shows with ex main eventers like Jericho and Moxley headlining their shows. Just beating NXT (A legitimate developmental brand) is not anything to brag about. They should be doing better, it's that simple.


----------



## Unityring

Regardless if you agree with his opinions,he is hilarious.
A rare personality within the podcast world 🌝


----------



## rexmundi

I don't understand hammering the .03 difference in demo because it was only for one week. That difference is not representative of this year as a whole nor the entire 40 week head to head run. Cherry picking a single week to try and make a point. lmao

Does anyone know what the average demo is for 2020 and from the beginning?


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> Jericho never lost a segment to NXT. Then he got involved with Orange Cassidy.


That's because Jericho started acting serious. When he was joking they weren't losing to NXT. He is the reason they lost, not OC.

OC might not be a big guy but his future is way bigger than Adam Cole will ever be



NXT Only said:


> 411MANIA | AEW Dark Was Most Streamed Wrestling Show On Youtube Last Week
> 
> 
> AEW Dark was the most-streamed wrestling show on Youtube last week, drawing 335,000 people ahead of The Bump and others...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live stream of the show not the video they post after.


Seems weird. Why wouldn't live views be counted in the views? It's the same video.



The Wood said:


> What do you think the excuses are going to be when AEW starts losing the demographic?
> 
> My guess is “It’s all digital.” They’ll all be watching online and on apps that don’t release their data. Another candidate is “ratings don’t matter” as a complete blanket statement. Not with thought put into it like Cult does, where he questions how reliable they are at all, and whether they imply a good show or not. It will just be “who even cares about ratings?!” in the ratings thread.


Either "AEW has younger fans and young fans like to watch online, probably illegal streaming so numbers can't be found" orrrrrr "WWE sent wrestlers like Jericho, Lee and Moxley to infiltrate AEW and destroy them from the inside".


----------



## CM Buck

Hey remember when wrestling fans used to argue about who was better between the rock and Austin? Now it's fun things like numbers and demographics!

May as well name this place Neilson forum


----------



## The Wood

rexmundi said:


> I don't understand hammering the .03 difference in demo because it was only for one week. That difference is not representative of this year as a whole nor the entire 40 week head to head run. Cherry picking a single week to try and make a point. lmao
> 
> Does anyone know what the average demo is for 2020 and from the beginning?


Because people are trying to make the point that being #7 and #24 or whatever are so far apart. They're not. A sneeze can tip the scales in this thing. And what the demo was 40 weeks ago isn't important to what it is now. 



Firefromthegods said:


> Hey remember when wrestling fans used to argue about who was better between the rock and Austin? Now it's fun things like numbers and demographics!
> 
> May as well name this place Neilson forum


Ratings have always been discussed, but if you want people to discuss the content, you should make the content more interesting. It will make it more fun to talk about and it might bring in more viewers who aren't nerds like us who talk about these things.


----------



## Randy Lahey

validreasoning said:


> Is there a single act outside new day that's selling shit to kids?


Bailey


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Because people are trying to make the point that being #7 and #24 or whatever are so far apart. They're not. A sneeze can tip the scales in this thing. And what the demo was 40 weeks ago isn't important to what it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings have always been discussed, but if you want people to discuss the content, you should make the content more interesting. It will make it more fun to talk about and it might bring in more viewers who aren't nerds like us who talk about these things.


Just let me bitch about there being too much math in my wrestling professor. It doesn't happen often when I can play the dumb jock


----------



## imthegame19

It's not even debatable at this point that 18-49 demo is what matters. Anyone trying to fight that. Well I'm sure you are a idiot. If you look at AEW numbers the past 40 weeks. It's really easy to see why TNT would be so happy and that Dynamite would bring in a lot of ad interest. Here's the data...

1.July 8th-7th in 18-49(.28)(5th non news)
2.July 1st- 6th in 18-49(.29)(2nd non news)
3.June 24th-17th in 18-49(.22) (8th non news)
4.June 17th-8th in 18-49(.28) (3rd non news)
5.June 10th-14th in 18-49(.23) (6th non news)
6.June 3rd-27th in 18-49(.29) (6th non news)
7.May 27th-4th in 18-49 (.32)(4th non news)
8.May 20th-7th in 18-49(.26)(6th non news)
9.May 13th-15th in 18-49(.23)(7th non news)
10.May 6th-12th in 18-49 (.28)(7th non news)
11.April 29th-16th in 18-49(.27)(10th non news)
12.April 22nd-24th in 18-49(.25)(11th non news)
13.April 15th-29th in 18-49 (.25)(14 non news)
14.April 8th-32nd in 18-49(.26)(10th non news)
15.April 1st-37th in 18-49 (.25)(8th non news)
16.March 25th-23rd in 18-49 (.34)(2nd in non news)
17.March 18th-20th in 18-49(.35)(2nd in non news)
18.March 11th-25th in 18-49(.26) (11th non news)-last show with fans

Pre predamic
19.March 4th-5th in 18-49 (.35)(4th non news)
20.February 26th-9th in 18-49(.30)(5th non news)
21.February 19th -5th in 18-49(.31)(3rd non news)
22.February 12th-10th in 18-49 (.30)(8th non news)
23.February 5th-11th in 18-49(.36)(4th non news)
24.January 29th-3rd in 18-49(.34)(3rd non news)
25.January -22nd-8th in 18-49 (.35)(6th non news)
26.January 15th-5th in 18-49(.38)(4th non news)
27.Janaury 8th-6th in 18-49(.36)(4th non news)
28.January 1st-13th in 18-49 (.36)(13 non news)

2019
29.December 18th 30th in 18-49 (.25)(14th non news)
30.December 11th 11th in 18-49(.28)(8th non news)
31.December 4th 8th in 18-49(.32)(8th non news)
32.November 27th 15th in 18-49(.26)(15th non news)
33.November 20th 8th in 18-49(.39)(4th non news)
34.November 13th 5th in 18-49(.43)(5th non news)
35.November 6th 8th in 18-49 (.35)(8th non news)
36.October 30th 6th in 18-49 (.33)(6th non news)
37.October 23rd 4th in 18-49 (.45)(4th non news)
38.October 16th 5th in 18-49(.44)(5th non news)
39.October 9th 8th in 18-49(.46)(8th non news)
40.October 2nd 2nd in 18-49 (.68)(2nd non news)


So as anyone can see how they perform in 18-49 demo goes up and down depending on what's going on that week. Obviously during Pandemic, race riots or election debates can bring news shows to spike certain weeks. But most of those spikes are unpredictable to companies buying ad time.


So if you look at how AEW performs in 18-49 among non news programs on consistent basis. Well they do fantastic really. They've finished 2nd to 8th in 18-49 in non news programming in 32 of 40 weeks. With one of the weeks they didn't finish top 8 being New Years day with bunch of College football championship games on and Dynamite still did well. Really April was the only time it dropped off a bit in 18-49 for more then one random week.

One big advantage AEW also has it's on every week. While a lot of these other shows are on 10-12 weeks then done. Or even sports are on t.v. for six months per year. So if you are company buying ad time for your product. You are gonna say hmm well this show performs in 18-49 every single week. So if you are buying tv time weeks or months ahead of airdate. You are gonna look at how consistently well AEW does in 18-49 against non news shows and feel good your product will be seen by 2nd to 8th most people in 18-49 demo on weekly basis. AEW brings extreme value to TNT and ad dollars. Anyone trying to debate or debunk that at this point is just flat out clueless or hater who refuses to accept reality.


----------



## Ozell Gray

So heres Dynamite average viewership and ratings

Dynamite 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating

10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating

10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating

10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating

10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating

11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating

11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating

11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating

11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating

12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating

12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating

12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Dynamite's average viewership in 2019 was 911,000 viewers and 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating

1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating

1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating

2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating

2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating

2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating

2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating

3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Pre-pandemic average viewership is 884,000 viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% drop in viewership and 15% drop in rating

Pandemic
3/18/20 932,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating

4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating

4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27

5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating

5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating

5/20/20 701,000 viewers 0.26 rating

5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating

6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating

6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating

6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating

6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating

7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating

7/8/20 715,000 viewers 0.28 rating

Average viewership 730,000 viewers and 0.27 rating. Thats a 8% drop in viewership and 22% drop in rating.

Overall Dynamite has lost 46% drop in viewership and 85% drop in rating.


----------



## The Golden Shovel

Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of wrestling more than an argument about ratings and demographics.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Golden Shovel said:


> Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of wrestling more than an argument about ratings and demographics.


Says the guy who clicked the post on the forum that is clearly about ratings.


----------



## The Wood

Well, it's closer to 60% in the demo. That doesn't sound too hip to me.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> Well, it's closer to 60% in the demo. That doesn't sound too hip to me.


You're right but if you take their debut 0.68 rating and their 0.27 average rating now thats a 85% drop in the rating since the debut.


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Just let me bitch about there being too much math in my wrestling professor. It doesn't happen often when I can play the dumb jock


Haha, okay. 



imthegame19 said:


> It's not even debatable at this point that 18-49 demo is what matters. Anyone trying to fight that. Well I'm sure you are a idiot. If you look at AEW numbers the past 40 weeks. It's really easy to see why TNT would be so happy and that Dynamite would bring in a lot of ad interest. Here's the data...
> 
> 1.July 8th-7th in 18-49(.28)(5th non news)
> 2.July 1st- 6th in 18-49(.29)(2nd non news)
> 3.June 24th-17th in 18-49(.22) (8th non news)
> 4.June 17th-8th in 18-49(.28) (3rd non news)
> 5.June 10th-14th in 18-49(.23) (6th non news)
> 6.June 3rd-27th in 18-49(.29) (6th non news)
> 7.May 27th-4th in 18-49 (.32)(4th non news)
> 8.May 20th-7th in 18-49(.26)(6th non news)
> 9.May 13th-15th in 18-49(.23)(7th non news)
> 10.May 6th-12th in 18-49 (.28)(7th non news)
> 11.April 29th-16th in 18-49(.27)(10th non news)
> 12.April 22nd-24th in 18-49(.25)(11th non news)
> 13.April 15th-29th in 18-49 (.25)(14 non news)
> 14.April 8th-32nd in 18-49(.26)(10th non news)
> 15.April 1st-37th in 18-49 (.25)(8th non news)
> 16.March 25th-23rd in 18-49 (.34)(2nd in non news)
> 17.March 18th-20th in 18-49(.35)(2nd in non news)
> 18.March 11th-25th in 18-49(.26) (11th non news)-last show with fans
> 
> Pre predamic
> 19.March 4th-5th in 18-49 (.35)(4th non news)
> 20.February 26th-9th in 18-49(.30)(5th non news)
> 21.February 19th -5th in 18-49(.31)(3rd non news)
> 22.February 12th-10th in 18-49 (.30)(8th non news)
> 23.February 5th-11th in 18-49(.36)(4th non news)
> 24.January 29th-3rd in 18-49(.34)(3rd non news)
> 25.January -22nd-8th in 18-49 (.35)(6th non news)
> 26.January 15th-5th in 18-49(.38)(4th non news)
> 27.Janaury 8th-6th in 18-49(.36)(4th non news)
> 28.January 1st-13th in 18-49 (.36)(13 non news)
> 
> 2019
> 29.December 18th 30th in 18-49 (.25)(14th non news)
> 30.December 11th 11th in 18-49(.28)(8th non news)
> 31.December 4th 8th in 18-49(.32)(8th non news)
> 32.November 27th 15th in 18-49(.26)(15th non news)
> 33.November 20th 8th in 18-49(.39)(4th non news)
> 34.November 13th 5th in 18-49(.43)(5th non news)
> 35.November 6th 8th in 18-49 (.35)(8th non news)
> 36.October 30th 6th in 18-49 (.33)(6th non news)
> 37.October 23rd 4th in 18-49 (.45)(4th non news)
> 38.October 16th 5th in 18-49(.44)(5th non news)
> 39.October 9th 8th in 18-49(.46)(8th non news)
> 40.October 2nd 2nd in 18-49 (.68)(2nd non news)
> 
> 
> So as anyone can see how they perform in 18-49 demo goes up and down depending on what's going on that week. Obviously during Pandemic, race riots or election debates can bring news shows to spike certain weeks. But most of those spikes are unpredictable to companies buying ad time.
> 
> 
> So if you look at how AEW performs in 18-49 among non news programs on consistent basis. Well they do fantastic really. They've finished 2nd to 8th in 18-49 in non news programming in 32 of 40 weeks. With one of the weeks they didn't finish top 8 being New Years day with bunch of College football championship games on and Dynamite still did well. Really April was the only time it dropped off a bit in 18-49 for more then one random week.
> 
> One big advantage AEW also has it's on every week. While a lot of these other shows are on 10-12 weeks then done. Or even sports are on t.v. for six months per year. So if you are company buying ad time for your product. You are gonna say hmm well this show performs in 18-49 every single week. So if you are buying tv time weeks or months ahead of airdate. You are gonna look at how consistently well AEW does in 18-49 against non news shows and feel good your product will be seen by 2nd to 8th most people in 18-49 demo on weekly basis. AEW brings extreme value to TNT and ad dollars. Anyone trying to debate or debunk that at this point is just flat out clueless or hater who refuses to accept reality.


You just said the 18-49 demo is "what matters" and didn't stipulate as to why. You can't just say something and have it assumed that it's true and call anyone who disagrees an idiot. Explain _why_. No, just don't say "it's what advertisers care about." Explain why that demo is "what matters" (implying other data doesn't). I want to know why advertisers care about that number so specifically and exclusively in 2020. Don't just say it. I can explain why I think that's largely bullshit -- especially to the degree that the AEW faithful will protest. 

I'm sick of hearing that this is the _only_ number that matters. Saying it is the "most important" or whatever is one thing to debate. I think that's archaic. I think if you want millennials and older zoomers, you don't go after <400k watching cable TV. I think that's insane in 2020. If you can get them along? Great. But you're not selling me on that being a great long-term plan for investment. But you have people here (and Chris Jericho and Tony Khan) implying that is _all_ that matters. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.



The Golden Shovel said:


> Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of wrestling more than an argument about ratings and demographics.


Then leave?


----------



## imthegame19

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Does anybody think TNT is getting paid significantly more in ad revenue than USA for a mere 20,000 fans in the demo?
> 
> Do you guys really think ad execs look at the rankings and see AEW at 7th and NXT at 27th and say "let's buy a million dollars worth of space on TNT, let's only buy $100K on USA"?
> 
> You don't think they crunch the numbers themselves and say ".03 in the demo is barely any difference at all, let's buy the same amount of ads on both networks"?
> 
> Have you guys considered that the demo really might not be the end-all to individual advertisers-- Tucker Carlson smokes AEW in the demo but I doubt you'll see a lot of Mountain Dew ads on Fox News, you will see a ton of ads for painless catheters though.



It's all supply and demand. People are gonna go to TNT and AEW to sell their ads first. They can charge more ad time due to higher demo rating. While they will be willing to pay more because AEW consistently will put more eyes on their product in 18-49 demo. So yes it's not 1 million vs 100,000 difference per ad. Probably more in 200,000 to 400,000 range difference. But over the course of two hour show. TNT likely making a at least a few million more off AEW. Week in and week out that adds up.


Why do you think NXT tried harder to give bigger matches last few weeks. With USA doing gimmicks with less or no commericals etc. That's because they are desperately trying to get demo numbers up. Because they aren't making as much money as competition is.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> You're right but if you take their debut 0.68 rating and their 0.27 average rating now thats a 85% drop in the rating since the debut.


The difference between 68 and 27 isn't 85%. That would take them down to a 0.12. They've lost about 59%. Which is absolutely shocking, don't get me wrong.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Seems weird. Why wouldn't live views be counted in the views? It's the same video.


It doesn't work that way. Kind of relatable but in my side business (You know how relatable this truly is) we upload live videos and as soon as the premiere is over the live views count as long as they're different views.

The video view counter does not reset. Any AEW fan saying this is misinformed and if Melter tried to state this then he is openly lying to make AEW seem better.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> The difference between 68 and 27 isn't 85%. That would take them down to a 0.12. They've lost about 59%. Which is absolutely shocking, don't get me wrong.


You're right I miscalculated the percentage. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> It's all supply and demand. People are gonna go to TNT and AEW to sell their ads first. They can charge more ad time due to higher demo rating. While they will be willing to pay more because AEW consistently will put more eyes on their product in 18-49 demo. So yes it's not 1 million vs 100,000 difference per ad. Probably more in 200,000 to 400,000 range difference. But over the course of two hour show. TNT likely making a at least a few million more off AEW. Week in and week out that adds up.
> 
> 
> Why do you think NXT tried harder to give bigger matches last few weeks. With USA doing gimmicks with less or no commericals etc. That's because they are desperately trying to get demo numbers up. Because they aren't making as much money as competition is.


You are talking out your ass. People aren't necessarily going to go to TNT and AEW to sell their ads first at all. You've completely made that up. They may have some sort of deal they can strike up with WWE where they get time on Raw and NXT, with Raw being a lot more valuable. Sponsorships with NXT are also going to be seen all around the world, which means that there may be benefit in going with them over AEW if you're looking at wrestling at all. Then you have to look at the rating of the show and who your product is aimed at. What is the average age within those demographics? What is the cultural background of those people? What is their social background? Is one audience decidedly cooler than another? You've completely removed all variables and simply turned it into a power level. A fucking grade schooler could get into advertising with the depth you've gone into it.

Having a better demo rating does not _automatically_ mean you can charge more for ads. You've got to be able to sell that ad space, and it's not as simple as saying "we've got 390k people in the 18-49 demo." As I pointed out somewhere else, NXT have actually got the far "younger" attachments. AEW advertised fucking Sensodyne.


----------



## ECFuckinW

The Wood said:


> Haha, okay.
> 
> 
> 
> You just said the 18-49 demo is "what matters" and didn't stipulate as to why. You can't just say something and have it assumed that it's true and call anyone who disagrees an idiot. Explain _why_. No, just don't say "it's what advertisers care about." Explain why that demo is "what matters" (implying other data doesn't). I want to know why advertisers care about that number so specifically and exclusively in 2020. Don't just say it. I can explain why I think that's largely bullshit -- especially to the degree that the AEW faithful will protest.
> 
> I'm sick of hearing that this is the _only_ number that matters. Saying it is the "most important" or whatever is one thing to debate. I think that's archaic. I think if you want millennials and older zoomers, you don't go after <400k watching cable TV. I think that's insane in 2020. If you can get them along? Great. But you're not selling me on that being a great long-term plan for investment. But you have people here (and Chris Jericho and Tony Khan) implying that is _all_ that matters. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
> 
> 
> 
> Then leave?


18-49 demo is most important because this is the demo that spends the most money,meaning buying the shit advertised on said channel.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> It doesn't work that way. Kind of relatable but in my side business (You know how relatable this truly is) we upload live videos and as soon as the premiere is over the live views count as long as they're different views.
> 
> The video view counter does not reset. Any AEW fan saying this is misinformed and if Melter tried to state this then he is openly lying to make AEW seem better.


That's what I thought. I'm sure live views get carried into the total.


----------



## ECFuckinW

The Wood said:


> You are talking out your ass. People aren't necessarily going to go to TNT and AEW to sell their ads first at all. You've completely made that up. They may have some sort of deal they can strike up with WWE where they get time on Raw and NXT, with Raw being a lot more valuable. Sponsorships with NXT are also going to be seen all around the world, which means that there may be benefit in going with them over AEW if you're looking at wrestling at all. Then you have to look at the rating of the show and who your product is aimed at. What is the average age within those demographics? What is the cultural background of those people? What is their social background? Is one audience decidedly cooler than another? You've completely removed all variables and simply turned it into a power level. A fucking grade schooler could get into advertising with the depth you've gone into it.
> 
> Having a better demo rating does not _automatically_ mean you can charge more for ads. You've got to be able to sell that ad space, and it's not as simple as saying "we've got 390k people in the 18-49 demo." As I pointed out somewhere else, NXT have actually got the far "younger" attachments. AEW advertised fucking Sensodyne.


But aew has the youngest audience in pro wrestling so how does NXT have younger Attatchments?


----------



## The Wood

ECFuckinW said:


> 18-49 demo is most important because this is the demo that spends the most money,meaning buying the shit advertised on said channel.


That's what used to be true in the late 90's, 00's, etc. Do millennials, who were kids then, have the same disposable income as their Gen X/boomer parents? Markets have completely changed. Seems much harder to own a house now than it was in my parents' day. I do know people who own property, but most of my mates rent, whereas my parents owned their house outright when they were my age. 

Wages and salaries have changed over time. Spending habits change. People now, on top of rent and amenities have phone bills, gym memberships and entertainment subscriptions. Eating out and social activities seem a lot more "expensive" than they used to be. How has the economy affected those demos?

Do young people with cable spend more or less than people without cable? Do they spend money on clothes, food, entertainment or travel? How does cultural background and sexuality affect this? These are things that we are more aware of now than we were 5 years ago, let alone 20 years ago. 



ECFuckinW said:


> But aew has the youngest audience in pro wrestling so how does NXT have younger Attatchments?


Because this shit is lot more complicated than reading a number off a chart and assuming it is a power level and that's all there is to advertising. NXT is a PG brand with international deals and ties to giant company that has got other properties that reach millions of other people. Also, given the cultural representation of their "cast" (if you can permit me to call wrestlers that for a second), there are a lot more attractive people and a lot more diversity in terms of nationality on that roster. AEW might be watched by more people, but NXT might be watched by people who are actually going to influence the success of your product.


----------



## ECFuckinW

The Wood said:


> That's what used to be true in the late 90's, 00's, etc. Do millennials, who were kids then, have the same disposable income as their Gen X/boomer parents? Markets have completely changed. Seems much harder to own a house now than it was in my parents' day. I do know people who own property, but most of my mates rent, whereas my parents owned their house outright when they were my age.
> 
> Wages and salaries have changed over time. Spending habits change. People now, on top of rent and amenities have phone bills, gym memberships and entertainment subscriptions. Eating out and social activities seem a lot more "expensive" than they used to be. How has the economy affected those demos?
> 
> Do young people with cable spend more or less than people without cable? Do they spend money on clothes, food, entertainment or travel? How does cultural background and sexuality affect this? These are things that we are more aware of now than we were 5 years ago, let alone 20 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Because this shit is lot more complicated than reading a number off a chart and assuming it is a power level and that's all there is to advertising. NXT is a PG brand with international deals and ties to giant company that has got other properties that reach millions of other people. Also, given the cultural representation of their "cast" (if you can permit me to call wrestlers that for a second), there are a lot more attractive people and a lot more diversity in terms of nationality on that roster. AEW might be watched by more people, but NXT might be watched by people who are actually going to influence the success of your product.


18-49 is still the demographic that spends the most the others may spend more then in past years but not enough to be considered the most prized demographic.


----------



## The Wood

ECFuckinW said:


> 18-49 is still the demographic that spends the most the others may spend more then in past years but not enough to be considered the most prized demographic.


Cool if true. Do you have any evidence for that, or are you just saying it? 

Also, is it 18 year olds or 49 year olds that spend more? Because the average AEW fan is to a certain end of that scale.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW fans at 45 years old would have very little disposable income unless they're rich, childless and/or debt free.

Most people I know in their 40's struggle and would rather save the money they do have on shitty holidays and vices. My Australian friends, head to your local RSL on a Saturday night, head to the gaming area and see just how many people 40+ are slapping hundreds of dollars away on the pokies.


----------



## Ozell Gray

ECFuckinW said:


> But aew has the youngest audience in pro wrestling so how does NXT have younger Attatchments?


AEW's median age of their fans is 47 years old which means AEW's fan base are old themselves not young.



ECFuckinW said:


> 18-49 is still the demographic that spends the most the others may spend more then in past years but not enough to be considered the most prized demographic.


You keep talking about the rating when they've lost 58% of that rating since the debut Dynamite episode. It went from 0.68 to 0.27 which means their rarting fell off of a cliff after the debut and the young viewers no longer had any interest in the company. And the 18-49 demo doesn't matter in wrestling anyway since most wrestling fans are poor hence why advertisers hate wrestling.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> OC might not be a big guy but his future is way bigger than Adam Cole will ever be


I know you’re not directing this at me, because I clearly never suggested anything of the sort, only that they are absolutely if similar size and frame.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> The guy is biggest waste of time on this forum and really pathetic loser. If anyone needed to get covid 19 and spend a month and reflect on how much he was wasting his life. Well it would be Wood. So do yourself a HUGE favor. Put him on ignore and let him talk to himself. Like most of the non trolls and haters have already done. People like him and others chased away majority of people and now the forum dying. I only visit this place here and there cuz of the trash on here. You are better off putting these losers on ignore or go to different forum. Good luck!


Fucking hell bro, that's just mean. He needs to get COVID-19 because his wrestling opinion differs to yours and he likes to state it? Fucking hell man you are CRAZY. This is just as bad as the guy that wished Vince McMahon dead because the AEW World Title match got delayed.

Wishing someone an illness that could kill them is up there as one of the worst things I've seen on this forum. Congratulations.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fucking hell bro, that's just mean. He needs to get COVID-19 because his wrestling opinion differs to yours and he likes to state it? Fucking hell man you are CRAZY. This is just as bad as the guy that wished Vince McMahon dead because the AEW World Title match got delayed.
> 
> Wishing someone an illness that could kill them is up there as one of the worst things I've seen on this forum. Congratulations.


How is he not banned from this forum for saying that? These AEW fans are worse than how ROH fans used to act. If hes not banned from here then the mods are being hypocrical on who they're banning and who they aren't. This guy is a psychophant and needs to be permanently banned from here.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> If you are replying to who I think you are. Well don't bother he does get it because he refuses to get it. His hate for the company and product. Causes him to refuse to accept any positive or success they are having.
> 
> If TNT gives them 175 million for two additional years. It's well there gonna get cancelled and not make that money blah blah lol. If Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez, Wrestling Inc etc talk about how demos mattering the most. It's well they are on Tony Khan payroll. If Mike Johnson reports how extremely happy TNT with AEW.
> 
> 
> Well that's more Khan family paying him off. If Tony Khan or Jericho come out and say something. Well they are desperate and trying to keep positive spin on sinking ship. They can't actually be telling the truth and educating people or anything. Especially when it's pretty well known by t.v. insiders demos matter most and been that way from day one.
> 
> 
> Or you can look at this articles when former President of Turner talks about the demos. Yet oh that was 2002 and not this low demo etc. Or whatever BS excuse people are making now.
> 
> 
> Basically the guy will spend all day on this forum. Making excuses and using his own personal opinion as facts and spins. While refusing to believe anything reported that goes against his opinion and views. So he would need written documents on how much networks were making on these shows for him to believe anything. Which he knows nobody will ever be able to get. So he can just make up crap and spin crap to back up his opinion.
> 
> 
> The guy is biggest waste of time on this forum and really pathetic loser. If anyone needed to get covid 19 and spend a month and reflect on how much he was wasting his life. Well it would be him.So do yourself a HUGE favor. Put him on ignore and let him talk to himself. Like most of the non trolls and haters have already done. People like him and others chased away majority of people and now the forum dying. I only visit this place here and there cuz of the trash on here. You are better off putting these losers on ignore or go to different forum. Good luck!


I've actually never said that Meltzer is on the payroll. I've said that he's clearly biased and has a stake in them succeeding. Also, he'll believe anything they tell him and report it as fact. I'd like to believe the guy isn't actively dishonest, but there have been a few stories he has reported in regards to AEW that do no make much sense. Omega and New Japan, Orton and AEW, Vince taking over NXT, etc. 

Again, if you could just provide some evidence as to why these key demos are all that mattered, I would stop calling you out on this. I actually love being presented with evidence and responding to it. Where you seem to have a problem is that I won't just accept your word on it as a given. You have never said a single thing to dissuade the idea that overall viewership is important, nor have you provided any evidence to back up your assertion that the key demo works as a power level that grants you more advertising revenue. 

I'll ignore your outburst. It's clear you've got some shit going on, and I hope it clears up for you. I don't agree with you as a poster at all -- I think you're one of the sneakiest in trying to paint AEW in too glowing a light -- but I don't have a personal issue with you at all. Cheer up, man. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Fucking hell bro, that's just mean. He needs to get COVID-19 because his wrestling opinion differs to yours and he likes to state it? Fucking hell man you are CRAZY. This is just as bad as the guy that wished Vince McMahon dead because the AEW World Title match got delayed.
> 
> Wishing someone an illness that could kill them is up there as one of the worst things I've seen on this forum. Congratulations.


I'm not sure what I find funnier: him being so mad at me (and apparently I take wrestling too seriously), or that he goes on to describe himself as a "non-troll" after that. 



Ozell Gray said:


> How is he not banned from this forum for saying that? These AEW fans are worse than how ROH fans used to act. If hes not banned from here then the mods are being hypocrical on who they're banning and who they aren't. This guy is a psychophant and needs to be permanently banned from here.


I appreciate people sticking up and doing the right thing, but it honestly doesn't bother me. I'm part of a lot of forums where we're permitted to insult each other all the time. My ego is too big to be affected by that sort of stuff. I'm not calling for imthegame19 to be banned, but I do hope it stands out to others as evidence that these guys aren't the babyfaces they pretend they are. AEW would be very disappointed in that exclusionary behaviour, haha. There's a real fanboy toxicity bubbling beneath the surface that is just waiting for AEW to start taking major hits before it comes out as baseless insults and childish deflection.


----------



## The Golden Shovel

Chip Chipperson said:


> Says the guy who clicked the post on the forum that is clearly about ratings.


Yes I read the post and gradually got more depressed while doing so and stated an opinion. Such an inclusive bunch of people around here.


----------



## The Wood

The Golden Shovel said:


> Yes I read the post and gradually got more depressed while doing so and stated an opinion. Such an inclusive bunch of people around here.


Hey, you're more than welcome, but if you don't want to talk ratings, the ratings thread may not be the best place for you.


----------



## Blaze2k2

I thought Cornette was done reviewing any AEW content after "Stadium Stampede". I see that didn't last long.


----------



## The Wood

Blaze2k2 said:


> I thought Cornette was done reviewing any AEW content after "Stadium Stampede". I see that didn't last long.


Fans willed him back. Plus it's probably good for his traffic.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Hard to take cornette seriously when hes purposely ignoring ppv main events cuz theres too many womens matches, well that and how he refuses to give anybody he dislikes credit. If a match turns out good its cuz the other person in the match carried him to it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

If Cornette liked AEW he'd be everyone in this threads idol.


----------



## imscotthALLIN

AEW needs more football themed tag matches, those always go over well with Cornette.


----------



## validreasoning

I never remember anyone talking about Cole's size pre WWE.

Yes he is small compared to Keith Lee, Lesnar, Orton, Strowman but he wouldn't be that small next to Styles, Michaels and wouldn't be considered small in AEW.



Randy Lahey said:


> Bailey


Bayley has been a heel for over a year now..


----------



## Hephaesteus

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Cornette liked AEW he'd be everyone in this threads idol.


That would imply that he would be your idol too though


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hephaesteus said:


> That would imply that he would be your idol too though


I already like him. Him liking AEW wouldn't change that unlike the majority of the folks in here.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> Hard to take cornette seriously when hes purposely ignoring ppv main events cuz theres too many womens matches, well that and how he refuses to give anybody he dislikes credit. If a match turns out good its cuz the other person in the match carried him to it.


He gives lots of credit to talent he doesn't like. Shawn Michaels and Austin Aries both spring immediately to mind. 

It's possible to have too much of one thing on a show.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I know you’re not directing this at me, because I clearly never suggested anything of the sort, only that they are absolutely if similar size and frame.


I was referring to their futures


----------



## bdon

validreasoning said:


> I never remember anyone talking about Cole's size pre WWE.
> 
> Yes he is small compared to Keith Lee, Lesnar, Orton, Strowman but he wouldn't be that small next to Styles, Michaels and wouldn't be considered small in AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Bayley has been a heel for over a year now..


He is tiny. He MAY have Cassidy by 10-15 pounds. Maybe.


----------



## TheDraw

validreasoning said:


> I never remember anyone talking about Cole's size pre WWE.
> 
> Yes he is small compared to Keith Lee, Lesnar, Orton, Strowman but he wouldn't be that small next to Styles, Michaels and wouldn't be considered small in AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Bayley has been a heel for over a year now..


My 85 lb grandma has bigger arms than Cole.


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> He gives lots of credit to talent he doesn't like. Shawn Michaels and Austin Aries both spring immediately to mind.
> 
> It's possible to have too much of one thing on a show.


And Id counter with Omega and the bucks. Im not their biggest fans, but I can admit that they do some things right.

Even if I agreed that three women's matches was too many matches ( which I dont), it's still a bullshit reason not to do your job and purposely skip over matches


----------



## ECFuckinW

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW's median age of their fans is 47 years old which means AEW's fan base are old themselves not young.


They are the youngest audience in pro wrestling like it it or not buddy.


----------



## JeSeGaN

There's a slight smell of desperation coming from AEW nowadays.

You're losing to NXT. Big whoop. Maybe put on more compelling stuff? Why do you feel the need to act all weird about it?


----------



## Ozell Gray

ECFuckinW said:


> They are the youngest audience in pro wrestling like it it or not buddy.


And their audience is still old and its proven by the fact that the median age of an AEW fan is 47 years old.


----------



## ECFuckinW

Ozell Gray said:


> And their audience is still old and its proven by the fact that the median age of an AEW fan is 47 years old.


I'm not claiming anything then them being the youngest audience which is true.


----------



## Ozell Gray

ECFuckinW said:


> I'm not claiming anything then them being the youngest audience which is true.


Having the youngest audience means nothing when that audience in of itself is old as well.


----------



## Stellar

I miss the days of when wrestling fans were actually wrestling fans instead of having serious discussions about ratings from wrestling shows.

Translation: Ratings discussions like this doesn't matter at all. It shows that people have way too much free time to spend the energy talking about something that doesn't involve them.


----------



## NXT Only

TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”

People- “No you’re not and you know it”


----------



## El Hammerstone

NXT Only said:


> TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”
> 
> People- “No you’re not and you know it”


TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”

People- “Well we're not, because we know they can and should be doing better."


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”
> 
> People- “Well we're not, because we know they can and should be doing better."


Agree completely. But that’s not how some people in this sxn feel. NXTonly is more accurate especially for 1 or 2 people.


----------



## NXT Only

El Hammerstone said:


> TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”
> 
> People- “Well we're not, because we know they can and should be doing better."


You cannot use can and should in the same sentence. 

Can is a matter of ability. They can do a lot and it wouldn't necessarily lead to success by the measurement which you and others seem to use.

Should is a matter of opinion, which we all throw around. Just because we think something should happen doesn't mean it can or will or has a probability of our measurements of success. 

I know for sure there's things I want that some of you might hate. AEW can do them but doesn't mean they should.


----------



## Garty

NXT Only said:


> TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”
> 
> People- “No you’re not and you know it”


Do you have proof that they said that?! Just because an actual TNT Executive said it, having Johnson and Meltzer reporting on it, doesn't mean it's true. No one knows if it's true. You could be right, but you could also be wrong too. So, until I see your proof, let's just say you're wrong then? Where's a link? A memo? A billboard? A front-page headline? A breaking news report on BBC? A DEF-CON 1 warning? Get back to me when you have something!


----------



## NXT Only

Garty said:


> Do you have proof that they said that?! Just because an actual TNT Executive said it, having Johnson and Meltzer reporting on it, doesn't mean it's true. No one knows if it's true. You could be right, but you could also be wrong too. So, until I see your proof, let's just say you're wrong then? Where's a link? A memo? A billboard? A front-page headline? A breaking news report on BBC? A DEF-CON 1 warning? Get back to me when you have something!


Huh? They literally extended their contract with AEW within months.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NXT Only said:


> Huh? They literally extended their contract with AEW within months.


Everyone knows you extend your deal when you don't feel comfortable with the product right?


----------



## Carter84

Fecking best match of the night and its 3rd best tag teammatch I've watched FTRvare looking great, lucha bros what more can I say sheer class, JR taking the piss outta butcher and blade , looks like the gimp from pulp fiction🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆


----------



## The Wood

Southerner said:


> I miss the days of when wrestling fans were actually wrestling fans instead of having serious discussions about ratings from wrestling shows.
> 
> Translation: Ratings discussions like this doesn't matter at all. It shows that people have way too much free time to spend the energy talking about something that doesn't involve them.


Some people love this stuff. Some people are business nerds. And the health of the business matters to some people.

If they want people to just discuss content, maybe make the content more interesting



NXT Only said:


> TNT- “We are very happy with the success of AEW”
> 
> People- “No you’re not and you know it”


Gross misrepresentation, but how often do you hear a company say “We’re very disappointed in our business partner?” People take PR talk way too literally, because they plastered this grassroots idea of camaraderie over these companies



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Everyone knows you extend your deal when you don't feel comfortable with the product right?


There are plenty of reasons to. Especially if you get it dirt cheap and can get out of the deal whenever you want.



Hephaesteus said:


> And Id counter with Omega and the bucks. Im not their biggest fans, but I can admit that they do some things right.
> 
> Even if I agreed that three women's matches was too many matches ( which I dont), it's still a bullshit reason not to do your job and purposely skip over matches


I don’t think that’s a counter at all. People say he doesn’t rate them because he doesn’t like them, but I just gave you examples of guys he does rate even though he doesn’t like them. So the idea that his personal opinion guides him doesn’t hold up.

Hang on, not do your job? He doesn’t _have_ to watch this. He’s doing it on a lark for his fans. The onus is not on the viewer to watch. There’s an obvious point there about card structure, hype, build and promotion. Maybe even the perceived talent of the women. Cornette’s point is that the women are being treated in a way that doesn’t maximise them in the context of wrestling, They’re the same gimmicks, one after another, having the wrong kind of match, and he finds it fatiguing, so he switched off because they haven’t made him care.

In a similar way, I once ordered an EVOLVE show and had to switch it off, because EVERY match had guys doing move after move after move and kicking out. I got bored. It’s a legitimate criticism.


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> I don’t think that’s a counter at all. People say he doesn’t rate them because he doesn’t like them, but I just gave you examples of guys he does rate even though he doesn’t like them. So the idea that his personal opinion guides him doesn’t hold up.
> 
> Hang on, not do your job? He doesn’t _have_ to watch this. He’s doing it on a lark for his fans. The onus is not on the viewer to watch. There’s an obvious point there about card structure, hype, build and promotion. Maybe even the perceived talent of the women. Cornette’s point is that the women are being treated in a way that doesn’t maximise them in the context of wrestling, They’re the same gimmicks, one after another, having the wrong kind of match, and he finds it fatiguing, so he switched off because they haven’t made him care.
> 
> In a similar way, I once ordered an EVOLVE show and had to switch it off, because EVERY match had guys doing move after move after move and kicking out. I got bored. It’s a legitimate criticism.


Yea it does and I just gave you an example of someone that he doesn't like who he refuses to give credit to. Watch any omega match and Its a safe bet that the credit for anything good that Omega does goes to the opponent. But for your satisfaction, I'll amend the statement. Cornette wont give credit to someone he hates if he can get away with it. Better?

He clearly does since he went from boycotting both promotions to watching them again after his latest shitstorm forced him to go fishing for viewers. And since he's advertising to review both shows for his paying viewers, then yes, it's his job to watch the entire thing, not pick and choose what he wants to watch. 
That's not his point at all, that's just what you think his point is. Regardless, his points irrelevant to this particular discussion. 

You have the freedom to do that cuz you're not getting paid to give your opinion to anybody about that particular event.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> Yea it does and I just gave you an example of someone that he doesn't like who he refuses to give credit to. Watch any omega match and Its a safe bet that the credit for anything good that Omega does goes to the opponent. But for your satisfaction, I'll amend the statement. Cornette wont give credit to someone he hates if he can get away with it. Better?
> 
> He clearly does since he went from boycotting both promotions to watching them again after his latest shitstorm forced him to go fishing for viewers. And since he's advertising to review both shows for his paying viewers, then yes, it's his job to watch the entire thing, not pick and choose what he wants to watch.
> That's not his point at all, that's just what you think his point is. Regardless, his points irrelevant to this particular discussion.
> 
> You have the freedom to do that cuz you're not getting paid to give your opinion to anybody about that particular event.


No, it doesn't. You can't say "that person doesn't give to charity" and then someone says "actually they do" and they provide evidence and then say "I just gave you an example of how they never give to charity." He either is capable of giving credit to people he doesn't like or he isn't. He clearly is. He doesn't owe you, Omega or The Bucks compliments. I don't like Omega either. That was _before_ he became relevant. I don't like his facial expressions, his selling or his fundamentals. And to me you can't build a castle on a foundation of sand. I rated him honestly in the Rate-a-Wrestler thing and I think he came out in the 4-6 range for me, or something (don't remember). Believe it or not, it's possible to think that Omega is not very good honestly. The same thing goes for The Bucks. 

I've heard Cornette say they do amazing acrobatics. He says Omega is in great shape. Those are "good things." People just ignore them because the ratio isn't where they'd like it to be. Diddums. And, by the way, it's not that uncommon a theory to believe that Omega was led through his best matches in New Japan. There are some people who will argue against that, but there are others that have watched them and said "Okada is holding that thing together." It's not that weird.

His latest shitstorm increased his viewership, I believe. I'm not going to go and check, but "fishing" for viewers is a strong way of putting it. I'm sure he does get a lot of traffic, from both fans and haters, wanting to hear his opinions on AEW. Um, his "viewers" aren't paying to hear his podcast. Where did that come from? Also, as a listener, I wasn't upset he stopped reviewing at all, or that he didn't get to that match. Honestly, it tickled me. It's not a knock on women's wrestling -- it's more a knock on how these shows are put together. But no, it's not his job to review these things. Holy fuck, be more entitled? 

His point is that when he's seen too much of one style of match -- in this case, women working way outside their gimmick -- he's going to lose interest. There was a clusterfuck four-way, a terrible handicap match and then they wanted him to watch more of that shit? He tapped out. In the same breath he complimented Rhea Ripley (when she's not saddled with shit), Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair and didn't even condemn Sasha Banks or Io Shirai. They just weren't going to hold his attention. The onus is on them as performers. Sorry, but you can't shift that. No one is obligated to watch you.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Yes if a rich person only gives to charity when people are paying attention, you very well can call them out on it. If someone does something well in a match acknowledge it, otherwise, you deserved to be called out. Does he owe me anything? Nope, doesn't mean I cant call him out on his bullshit when he's on that bullshit. Aint nobody said that you have to accept Omega's good or not, hell I wouldn't even say that but I can at least admit that he has

Stating facts about someone aint giving compliments, it's just stating facts.

He's been boycotting aew since may , but now out of the blue just decided to go back to it. Im sure it's just a happy coincidence. And yea Im the asshole for wanting him to provide what he advertised. Just because you're easy to satisfy doesn't mean that everybody else should be.

And that last paragraph just tells me that he chose to skip said match cuz he's either a racist or a size whore. Im not sure which. But no he's not obligated to do jack shit, just don't lie and advertise that you're going to do something when you're clearly not going to.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Woods defending Cornette over multiple threads

AEW stans defending Dynamite

= same energy 😂😂😂

one day woods, i hope you will be so much in AEWs corner, a position befitting the top dog here on dese here boards


----------



## One Shed

Hephaesteus said:


> Yes if a rich person only gives to charity when people are paying attention, you very well can call them out on it. If someone does something well in a match acknowledge it, otherwise, you deserved to be called out. Does he owe me anything? Nope, doesn't mean I cant call him out on his bullshit when he's on that bullshit. Aint nobody said that you have to accept Omega's good or not, hell I wouldn't even say that but I can at least admit that he has
> 
> Stating facts about someone aint giving compliments, it's just stating facts.
> 
> He's been boycotting aew since may , but now out of the blue just decided to go back to it. Im sure it's just a happy coincidence. And yea Im the asshole for wanting him to provide what he advertised. Just because you're easy to satisfy doesn't mean that everybody else should be.
> 
> And that last paragraph just tells me that he chose to skip said match cuz he's either a racist or a size whore. Im not sure which. But no he's not obligated to do jack shit, just don't lie and advertise that you're going to do something when you're clearly not going to.


What? He did not "out of the blue" decide to go back to it. He was done after the football field fiasco but then FTR showed up and he wanted to see them. It is that simple. If he skips a match because it is repetitive or boring that is his prerogative. AEW promised sports-based wrestling. Jim Cornette promised to give his opinions on things. Who lied here? If Cornette said he was going to review AEW and then talked about his favorite fast food orders for two hours that would be false advertising. Saying he is going to review a show and then commenting some of the matches were too bad for him to even sit through is part of that review.

There are plenty of things I disagree with Cornette on. I listed them all out a few months ago. I still find him entertaining.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> Yes if a rich person only gives to charity when people are paying attention, you very well can call them out on it. If someone does something well in a match acknowledge it, otherwise, you deserved to be called out. Does he owe me anything? Nope, doesn't mean I cant call him out on his bullshit when he's on that bullshit. Aint nobody said that you have to accept Omega's good or not, hell I wouldn't even say that but I can at least admit that he has
> 
> Stating facts about someone aint giving compliments, it's just stating facts.
> 
> He's been boycotting aew since may , but now out of the blue just decided to go back to it. Im sure it's just a happy coincidence. And yea Im the asshole for wanting him to provide what he advertised. Just because you're easy to satisfy doesn't mean that everybody else should be.
> 
> And that last paragraph just tells me that he chose to skip said match cuz he's either a racist or a size whore. Im not sure which. But no he's not obligated to do jack shit, just don't lie and advertise that you're going to do something when you're clearly not going to.


You're changing the analogy. Cornette _does_ acknowledge what Omega does well in a match. Pretty flips. Go back and listen to his review of Omega vs. Okada. He does point that out. You're deliberately ignoring them because he doesn't rate Omega as highly as you, haha. It's not bullshit to call a spade a spade. It's actually the exact opposite, but okay. You're welcome to disagree, but it's weird how people seem to demand Cornette's expert opinion matches their amateur one. It's not a fact that Kenny Omega is a great wrestler.

His metrics are up and he got emails asking him to do. He probably does not-so-secretly love tearing this shit apart. I know I do. But he doesn't HAVE to do it. I don't know where this attitude comes from. "Hey, I'm going to talk about this." Talks about it. "Alright, I'm done talking about it." Cool. Are you going to hold a flame to him because he doesn't talk about it for long enough or say the exact right things you want him to say? I'm sorry, man, but this is just weird. It's a casual podcast where he occasionally does modern wrestling reviews, people know he's going to find a lot of shit wrong with it (because there's a lot of shit wrong with it), and he may or may not tap out. It's not the deal you're making it out to be. The dude hasn't signed a fucking contract to sit at gunpoint and comb through everything like he works for you. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Woods defending Cornette over multiple threads
> 
> AEW stans defending Dynamite
> 
> = same energy 😂😂😂
> 
> one day woods, i hope you will be so much in AEWs corner, a position befitting the top dog here on dese here boards


Yes, because everything is the same thing. :-|

"Wood saying he likes drinking coffee. AEW stans saying they love drinking actual liquid faeces. Same energy." 

I would love to have a wrestling product I can get behind. I'm rooting for MLW to get a big TV deal. I very much applaud New Japan for doing something interesting during a pandemic while other promotions sit on their hands and say you have to be boring. I'm not going to arbitrarily back a sick horse though. Cornette has earned my support for being fucking smart and talking sense about something I love. I didn't decide I liked him one day for funsies. I was on here touting the potential AEW had from day one, and they pissed on me and called it rain. They lost me. If they want me back, they can win me back.


----------



## bdon

Cornette doesn’t have to like Omega. @The Wood doesn’t have to like him. I am a clear cut Omega guy in the 9 months or so I’ve been watching, but they’re entitle their opinion. They like a certain style, and Omega doesn’t deliver that. That’s fine.

What I will ask of you Wood is for your opinion on WHY is it that people tend to have their best, or some of their best, matches with Omega? Is he a great dance partner due to the incredible athleticism? The thought he puts into things _when he wants to be serious_? Or what?

I only ask, because you even commented the other day about a CM Punk/Cody match being good for Dynamite, but an Omega/CM Punk match can headline a PPV. You’ve also discussed Brock, but I suspect that being you just wanting to see Omega get potatoed, haha.

Just seems to be that even his critics know when he’s on, it can be really good stuff. I mean, hell, he had Cornette giving props to the Bucks in a tag match.

Genuinely curious and not trying to be condescending. Just enjoy an opposing perspective as I’m a clearly a mark for the theater of Omega matches heh


----------



## Garty

NXT Only said:


> Huh? They literally extended their contract with AEW within months.


Wow! This went right over your head didn't it? I was parodying what the Angry Aussies go-to responses would be. 



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Everyone knows you extend your deal when you don't feel comfortable with the product right?


Well, FS1 gave WWE their own 1-hour talkshow and if they didn't think it would be successful, then I"m sure they wouldn't have... Excuse me, what? Oh, it's been cancelled? A few weeks ago? Never mind then.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Lheurch said:


> What? He did not "out of the blue" decide to go back to it. He was done after the football field fiasco but then FTR showed up and he wanted to see them. It is that simple. If he skips a match because it is repetitive or boring that is his prerogative. AEW promised sports-based wrestling. Jim Cornette promised to give his opinions on things. Who lied here? If Cornette said he was going to review AEW and then talked about his favorite fast food orders for two hours that would be false advertising. Saying he is going to review a show and then commenting some of the matches were too bad for him to even sit through is part of that review.
> 
> There are plenty of things I disagree with Cornette on. I listed them all out a few months ago. I still find him entertaining.


Saying that you're going to compare two shows over two nights then missing the main event of one of them because you didn't feel like it is quite the false advertisement. If I had a podcast that attracted viewers based on the advertisement that I was going to review Smackdown then decided I wasn't going to watch anymore after the karaoke segment, would that not be false advertisement?




The Wood said:


> You're changing the analogy. Cornette _does_ acknowledge what Omega does well in a match. Pretty flips. Go back and listen to his review of Omega vs. Okada. He does point that out. You're deliberately ignoring them because he doesn't rate Omega as highly as you, haha. It's not bullshit to call a spade a spade. It's actually the exact opposite, but okay. You're welcome to disagree, but it's weird how people seem to demand Cornette's expert opinion matches their amateur one. It's not a fact that Kenny Omega is a great wrestler.
> 
> His metrics are up and he got emails asking him to do. He probably does not-so-secretly love tearing this shit apart. I know I do. But he doesn't HAVE to do it. I don't know where this attitude comes from. "Hey, I'm going to talk about this." Talks about it. "Alright, I'm done talking about it." Cool. Are you going to hold a flame to him because he doesn't talk about it for long enough or say the exact right things you want him to say? I'm sorry, man, but this is just weird. It's a casual podcast where he occasionally does modern wrestling reviews, people know he's going to find a lot of shit wrong with it (because there's a lot of shit wrong with it), and he may or may not tap out. It's not the deal you're making it out to be. The dude hasn't signed a fucking contract to sit at gunpoint and comb through everything like he works for you.


I get it you idolize him but good god. Like I said, I don't even like Omega. What im saying is that when it comes to reviews , he bases every single review based on who he likes and who he doesn't like and credits accordingly, which is fine, I still listen to him regardless. But don't sit there and tell me he's an objective reviewer based on the fact that he acknowledges some hall of famers that he doesn't like.

Why are you so offended by what Im calling out? If you're satisfied with getting the bare minimum from a podcaster and not expecting him to hold up his end of the bargain on what *he *advertised, then fine. Im not going to, I'll call him out as I see fit.


----------



## One Shed

Hephaesteus said:


> Saying that you're going to compare two shows over two nights then missing the main event of one of them because you didn't feel like it is quite the false advertisement. If I had a podcast attracted viewers based on the advertisement that I was going to review Smackdown then decided I wasn't going to watch anymore after the karaoke segment, would that not be false advertisement?


No, you would be saying the show was so bad you could not watch all of it. That would be the review. Like walking out of a terrible movie.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Cornette doesn’t have to like Omega. @The Wood doesn’t have to like him. I am a clear cut Omega guy in the 9 months or so I’ve been watching, but they’re entitle their opinion. They like a certain style, and Omega doesn’t deliver that. That’s fine.
> 
> What I will ask of you Wood is for your opinion on WHY is it that people tend to have their best, or some of their best, matches with Omega? Is he a great dance partner due to the incredible athleticism? The thought he puts into things _when he wants to be serious_? Or what?
> 
> I only ask, because you even commented the other day about a CM Punk/Cody match being good for Dynamite, but an Omega/CM Punk match can headline a PPV. You’ve also discussed Brock, but I suspect that being you just wanting to see Omega get potatoed, haha.
> 
> Just seems to be that even his critics know when he’s on, it can be really good stuff. I mean, hell, he had Cornette giving props to the Bucks in a tag match.
> 
> Genuinely curious and not trying to be condescending. Just enjoy an opposing perspective as I’m a clearly a mark for the theater of Omega matches heh


Fair questions. I don't think he does have the best matches with people. I'll take some of, but when it comes to best, I'll take Tanahashi/Okada over either of their matches with Omega. I could go through the list, but you know it, haha. I don't subscribe to the narrative that he is the best or anywhere near the best. When it comes to having enjoyable matches with veteran talent, I honestly do think it's what you said about him being a dance partner. When he's with a guy like Okada, who knows how to tentpole his matches so well and bring people back to where he needs them, or Tanahashi, who is basically the Japanese Bret Hart when it comes to psychology, and what is probably, in his own mind, a sense of reverence for these guys, Omega's athleticism is a great canvas for these guys to paint with. Omega's shit is crisp, I'll give him that. His punches look shit, but when it comes to taking a back body drop over the top to the floor, he accentuates that node really well. 

Apart from that, I think it's fans getting carried away with themselves too. Not you specifically, haha. But there is always a myth about gaijin in Japan and how good they are. They aren't often exposed much to the western audience. Giant Bernard and Doc Gallows were supposed to be really good in Japan, haha. Omega was largely "the best" because he was presented as the best in Japan. I don't know if I'm explaining that well, but if Omega were in the WWE and AJ Styles were in New Japan again, I'm sure the narrative would switch. Perception is reality, and New Japan is perceived as prestigious by certain fans, and that colors their opinion of the work.

Going back to Punk/Cody, I'm pretty sure I put that on PPV too. I think I said that Punk/Cody may not headline, but I don't know if Punk/Omega did or not. It wouldn't have to either. I mean, I may have said that too, but I'm honestly just trying to remember. The thing about Punk/Omega is that, in my head, it would be promoted as the two best. Cody may be a better overall worker to me, in my opinion, but I don't think he's really owned "the best" yet. Omega is touted as that from people in this audience. Whether I'm a fan of his work or not, I definitely do see value in using up Omega in that initial top spot with this audience while you can. I would love it if he would cut out the goofy shit, but he's got a function and that function just has more built into it than Cody right now. 

Brock vs. Omega would be really great, and that's because Omega _would not_ be whipping out spray from his balls and spraying his face during that match. He would be selling the most realistically he has ever sold, haha. And cutting the silly shit is the first step to making Omega way better. And Brock is an expert at putting shit together. Plus, it also has that air of "best in the world vs. guy the internet thinks is the best in the world." 

Fake it till you make it with Omega, basically. When he cuts out the goofy stuff and he's kept within the confines of something with a good structure, he's a good springboard. He doesn't have the mind of a great carpenter like Arn Anderson or Mick Foley, but physically he is able to make guys look really good. The world's best unwilling enhancement talent, haha. 



Lheurch said:


> No, you would be saying the show was so bad you could not watch all of it. That would be the review. Like walking out of a terrible movie.


Yeah, I was going to say -- if Roger Ebert were doing a review back when he was alive, and he said "Readers, this movie was so bad I walked out of it," I'm pretty sure he would get away with it. Not if he did it every film, haha, but once in a blue moon. And that actually _was_ his job. 



Hephaesteus said:


> Saying that you're going to compare two shows over two nights then missing the main event of one of them because you didn't feel like it is quite the false advertisement. If I had a podcast that attracted viewers based on the advertisement that I was going to review Smackdown then decided I wasn't going to watch anymore after the karaoke segment, would that not be false advertisement?
> 
> 
> 
> I get it you idolize him but good god. Like I said, I don't even like Omega. what im saying is that when it comes to reviews because he bases every single review based on who he likes and who he doesn't like and credits accordingly, which is fine, I still listen to him regardless. But don't sit there and tell me he's an objective reviewer based on the fact that he acknowledges some hall of famers that he doesn't like.
> 
> Why are you so offended by what Im calling out? If you're satisfied with getting the bare minimum from a podcaster and not expecting him to hold up his end of the bargain on what *he *advertised, then fine. Im not going to, I'll call him out as I see fit.


He did compare the two shows. One lost his interest and he switched it off. That was his review. No, if the karaoke segment made you tune out of SmackDown, then it made you tune out of SmackDown. That says how bad it is and explains the risks of putting that sort of shit in that sort of position on your show. Dude, this is a really weird hill to plant a flag on.

But he doesn't base his reviews on who he likes and who he doesn't. I just gave you evidence as to guys he says are really good even though he's nowhere near a personal fan of them, haha. You can't just keep saying that like it's true when it's demonstrably not. Austin Aries is nowhere near a Hall of Famer, haha. Well, maybe the WWE Hall of Fame, but that doesn't count. 

You can call him out where you seem fit, I'm just saying "Hang on, that's not true." I don't know what it is about Cornette that attracts the weirdest arguments from people. They will flat-out ignore what he actually says and just go fallacious to the extreme on the guy. Like with Owens & Zayn. Sorry to go off topic, but there are people who still say that he said they weren't talented guys. By the way, there are another two. Also not Hall of Famers. He never said that, he just said they were pains in the asses and didn't get the larger picture when it came to the business and did a lot of indy shit. And here you are saying "Cornette won't give good reviews to people he doesn't like" when he does and that whole point of view is just frankly bullshit. 

He's allowed to not like Omega & The Bucks and never watch them again by the way. If he came out and said "Fuck these guys, I'm not watching their matches," that's his prerogative. I wouldn't hold that against him. But that's not what he's doing at this point in time. He points out why their matches suck. With Omega's it was because there was no clear babyface team, it was a bunch of moves, no one followed the rules, the outfits looked indy and it was "scrambled eggs" as he likes to say. That's got nothing to do with Omega being a cunt. He likes Adam Page and has said that Marq Quen is a future star, and they got blasted for the match too. 

With The Bucks this week it was, again, no clear babyfaces and heels, a bunch of moves, nothing made sense, it fell apart, The Revival tried, then they did a tag spot which completely broke the rules of tag team wrestling and there was a contrived finish that got everybody under. He LOVES FTR. They got shit for this too. 

I think you're a good poster and all, but I know you're not an AEW apologist or anything, but I just think you're really bloody wrong on Cornette. You're allowed to listen to him or not, I don't care, but I just think your criticism, in this case, is just one of those perpetuated internet things that people just accept. "Oh yeah, Cornette wants chinlocks and hates anything new." Not true. "Cornette hates the matches of anyone he doesn't like." Again, not true.


----------



## bdon

Cool. Appreciate the thought, and that may be what does it for me with Omega, the crispness. Everything is fluid.

I suppose I like that he’s a great fucking stuntman. Hah.

All jokes aside, I really have no clue what it is that hooked me. I’d never seen or heard of him prior to Dynamite airing. I knew the names Cody Rhodes, Dustin, Dean Ambrose, so I had to tear into every wrestler’s history on a crash course of YouTube and Google searches.

Maybe it is as simple as Omega making a star of himself without Vince. I was a Sting junkie from the time I was 4 years old, so it could be as simple as that.

I dunno. The matches are usually very good to great for me. But fuck Kenny Omega when he wants to do stupid shit with Nakazawa. And fuck Kenny Omega in advance for selling Marko Stunt’s Canadian Destroyer this Wednesday, just to show how gracefully he can do a backflip on his fucking skull. Hah


----------



## The Wood

It really is this really weird geek culture of trying to impress people with your stunts. It's like wrestling Jackass.


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> Agree completely. But that’s not how some people in this sxn feel. NXTonly is more accurate especially for 1 or 2 people.


Who here doesn't feel that way? 

Do you guys really think that if people didn't care about AEW getting better they would spend so much time talking about the things AEW should be doing to have a better show? 

The past few weeks have literally been people saying: "Jericho vs Orange Cassidy is a dumb feud and will not draw ratings."

AEW fans responding: "No its great! Orange Cassidy can really go and is over" 

_Match happens, ratings and viewership crater_

AEW fans: _shocked Pikachu face_ wELL AckTUaLLy I LikED iT! Y'ALL HATE AEW AND WANT IT TO FAIL


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> Who here doesn't feel that way?
> 
> Do you guys really think that if people didn't care about AEW getting better they would spend so much time talking about the things AEW should be doing to have a better show?
> 
> The past few weeks have literally been people saying: "Jericho vs Orange Cassidy is a dumb feud and will not draw ratings."
> 
> AEW fans responding: "No its great! Orange Cassidy can really go and is over"
> 
> _Match happens, ratings and viewership crater_
> 
> AEW fans: _shocked Pikachu face_ wELL AckTUaLLy I LikED iT! Y'ALL HATE AEW AND WANT IT TO FAIL


This.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> Who here doesn't feel that way?
> 
> Do you guys really think that if people didn't care about AEW getting better they would spend so much time talking about the things AEW should be doing to have a better show?
> 
> The past few weeks have literally been people saying: "Jericho vs Orange Cassidy is a dumb feud and will not draw ratings."
> 
> AEW fans responding: "No its great! Orange Cassidy can really go and is over"
> 
> _Match happens, ratings and viewership crater_
> 
> AEW fans: _shocked Pikachu face_ wELL AckTUaLLy I LikED iT! Y'ALL HATE AEW AND WANT IT TO FAIL


Excellent post.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Who here doesn't feel that way?
> 
> *Do you guys really think that if people didn't care about AEW getting better they would spend so much time talking about the things AEW should be doing to have a better show?*
> 
> The past few weeks have literally been people saying: "Jericho vs Orange Cassidy is a dumb feud and will not draw ratings."
> 
> AEW fans responding: "No its great! Orange Cassidy can really go and is over"
> 
> _Match happens, ratings and viewership crater_
> 
> AEW fans: _shocked Pikachu face_ wELL AckTUaLLy I LikED iT! Y'ALL HATE AEW AND WANT IT TO FAIL


It could just be insanity too. That's a lot of invested time in negative posting for some on here. AEW execs answer and read a lot of their tweet replies, so half of the time spent on here should be used in trying to get their attention if the product is so bad. Tony CLEARLY reads his Tweets. So does Omega. Penelope Ford, Kip Sabian, and Leva Bates are all Twitch streamers and they are very active in their Twitch chat. Why not try to express your concerns to them on there? I welcome criticism but some posters on this forum have taken it to a level far beyond regular criticism. Posting negative shit all day, every day to fans on WF in an attempt to get them to "sway your way" or to force your opinion as fact isn't going to get anywhere. All it's doing is making the forum more toxic than it needs to be and it's not an enjoyable experience for people who want to discuss the show whether it's in a positive or criticizing way. The people that enjoy the show are not going to stop enjoying the show because you type essays about why it "so bad" so the efforts are put in the wrong place.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Some people love this stuff. Some people are business nerds. And the health of the business matters to some people.
> 
> If they want people to just discuss content, maybe make the content more interesting
> 
> 
> 
> Gross misrepresentation, but how often do you hear a company say “We’re very disappointed in our business partner?” People take PR talk way too literally, because they plastered this grassroots idea of camaraderie over these companies
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of reasons to. Especially if you get it dirt cheap and can get out of the deal whenever you want.


Well they are set until 2023 even if ratings decrease so that shows some confidence in the brand.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> It could just be insanity too. That's a lot of invested time in negative posting for some on here. AEW execs answer and read a lot of their tweet replies, so half of the time spent on here should be used in trying to get their attention if the product is so bad. Tony CLEARLY reads his Tweets. So does Omega. Penelope Ford, Kip Sabian, and Leva Bates are all Twitch streamers and they are very active in their Twitch chat. Why not try to express your concerns to them on there? I welcome criticism but some posters on this forum have taken it to a level far beyond regular criticism. Posting negative shit all day, every day to fans on WF in an attempt to get them to "sway your way" or to force your opinion as fact isn't going to get anywhere. All it's doing is making the forum more toxic than it needs to be and it's not an enjoyable experience for people who want to discuss the show whether it's in a positive or criticizing way. The people that enjoy the show are not going to stop enjoying the show because you type essays about why it "so bad" so the efforts are put in the wrong place.


So we should flood peoples Twitter with our views or chase people on Twitch and pitch ideas to improve AEW whilst they're streaming themselves playing video games? And if we elect to do this you won't view us as insane anymore but posting on an opinion message board with negativity does make us insane? Okay.

Those people wouldn't listen to us anyway. If they were open to listening they'd listen to the known wrestling personalities who say AEW is bad and needs to make changes such as Cornette, Kevin Nash, Russo etc.

I will speak for myself only but I'm not in the interest of swaying anyone's views. I've got a fair few people I'm friendly with in this section and we can chat wrestling together in this section. Sometimes we praise what AEW is doing, sometimes we're indifferent and sometimes we do indeed shit on it. I have fun throwing ideas around with Cult, Wood and the others on how things could be improved, I enjoy discussing with everyone if Rey Mysterio would be a good signing and I enjoy partaking in the live thread with everyone. I should stop something I enjoy because you want this forum to be purely positive towards AEW? Nah mate. There is already another forum that banned all negative AEW talk and it's the worst forum ever. Just 20 smart marks all agreeing with one another and making Michael Nakazawa appreciation threads. We leave and that's what you'll be left with.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Garty said:


> Wow! This went right over your head didn't it? I was parodying what the Angry Aussies go-to responses would be.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, FS1 gave WWE their own 1-hour talkshow and if they didn't think it would be successful, then I"m sure they wouldn't have... Excuse me, what? Oh, it's been cancelled? A few weeks ago? Never mind then.


Except AEWs deal is set until 2023 soooo not the greatest comparison junior.


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> He did compare the two shows. One lost his interest and he switched it off. That was his review. No, if the karaoke segment made you tune out of SmackDown, then it made you tune out of SmackDown. That says how bad it is and explains the risks of putting that sort of shit in that sort of position on your show. Dude, this is a really weird hill to plant a flag on.
> 
> But he doesn't base his reviews on who he likes and who he doesn't. I just gave you evidence as to guys he says are really good even though he's nowhere near a personal fan of them, haha. You can't just keep saying that like it's true when it's demonstrably not. Austin Aries is nowhere near a Hall of Famer, haha. Well, maybe the WWE Hall of Fame, but that doesn't count.
> 
> You can call him out where you seem fit, I'm just saying "Hang on, that's not true." I don't know what it is about Cornette that attracts the weirdest arguments from people. They will flat-out ignore what he actually says and just go fallacious to the extreme on the guy. Like with Owens & Zayn. Sorry to go off topic, but there are people who still say that he said they weren't talented guys. By the way, there are another two. Also not Hall of Famers. He never said that, he just said they were pains in the asses and didn't get the larger picture when it came to the business and did a lot of indy shit. And here you are saying "Cornette won't give good reviews to people he doesn't like" when he does and that whole point of view is just frankly bullshit.
> 
> He's allowed to not like Omega & The Bucks and never watch them again by the way. If he came out and said "Fuck these guys, I'm not watching their matches," that's his prerogative. I wouldn't hold that against him. But that's not what he's doing at this point in time. He points out why their matches suck. With Omega's it was because there was no clear babyface team, it was a bunch of moves, no one followed the rules, the outfits looked indy and it was "scrambled eggs" as he likes to say. That's got nothing to do with Omega being a cunt. He likes Adam Page and has said that Marq Quen is a future star, and they got blasted for the match too.
> 
> With The Bucks this week it was, again, no clear babyfaces and heels, a bunch of moves, nothing made sense, it fell apart, The Revival tried, then they did a tag spot which completely broke the rules of tag team wrestling and there was a contrived finish that got everybody under. He LOVES FTR. They got shit for this too.
> 
> I think you're a good poster and all, but I know you're not an AEW apologist or anything, but I just think you're really bloody wrong on Cornette. You're allowed to listen to him or not, I don't care, but I just think your criticism, in this case, is just one of those perpetuated internet things that people just accept. "Oh yeah, Cornette wants chinlocks and hates anything new." Not true. "Cornette hates the matches of anyone he doesn't like." Again, not true.


Does that review make sense though when he said both of last week's shows were equal and he finished AEW? I get what yall are saying in those regards but his words after dont match up with his actions.

The concentration on kenny and the young bucks is not about defending them or their work and more about highlighting the way he does reviews. We know with regards to Jimmy theres a special place in hell for those who break kayfabe and they've both done that over the course of their careers. Is alot of his criticism justified ? Sure, hell, most of it is. However, I can easily tell when he's reviewing someone he really doesn't like and also when he's reviewing someone he really likes. I only picked those guys cuz thats where the examples are most prevalent. Hell Id be willing to grant that he's objective most of the time but he has those he hates and his favs ( mjf and Cody especially) and it affects the way he does those particular reviews.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> So we should flood peoples Twitter with our views or chase people on Twitch and pitch ideas to improve AEW whilst they're streaming themselves playing video games? And if we elect to do this you won't view us as insane anymore but posting on an opinion message board with negativity does make us insane? Okay.
> 
> Those people wouldn't listen to us anyway. If they were open to listening they'd listen to the known wrestling personalities who say AEW is bad and needs to make changes such as Cornette, Kevin Nash, Russo etc.
> 
> I will speak for myself only but I'm not in the interest of swaying anyone's views. I've got a fair few people I'm friendly with in this section and we can chat wrestling together in this section. Sometimes we praise what AEW is doing, sometimes we're indifferent and sometimes we do indeed shit on it. I have fun throwing ideas around with Cult, Wood and the others on how things could be improved, I enjoy discussing with everyone if Rey Mysterio would be a good signing and I enjoy partaking in the live thread with everyone. I should stop something I enjoy because you want this forum to be purely positive towards AEW? Nah mate. There is already another forum that banned all negative AEW talk and it's the worst forum ever. Just 20 smart marks all agreeing with one another and making Michael Nakazawa appreciation threads. We leave and that's what you'll be left with.


If you really care, then posting your ideas on their Tweets would still make more of a difference than trying to make the fans on here feel wrong or feel like idiots for liking the show. It's not insanity to criticize in a general sense, but what I see here is not normal criticism. Its pure hatred. I don't want it to be all positive all the time. I like criticism because it shows me things that I didn't notice before. Even I have criticized the show on multiple occasions. But you have to admit that it does get a bit much with every thread turning into what they turn into though? You can't sit there and tell me that a lot of this forum isn't malicious towards the brand's image for some. It's like a hateful warzone in here when it doesn't need to be. There are levels to criticism.


----------



## bdon

Hephaesteus said:


> Does that review make sense though when he said both of last week's shows were equal and he finished AEW? I get what yall are saying in those regards but his words after dont match up with his actions.
> 
> The concentration on kenny and the young bucks is not about defending them or their work and more about highlighting the way he does reviews. We know with regards to Jimmy theres a special place in hell for those who break kayfabe and they've both done that over the course of their careers. Is alot of his criticism justified ? Sure, hell, most of it is. However, I can easily tell when he's reviewing someone he really doesn't like and also when he's reviewing someone he really likes. I only picked those guys cuz thats where the examples are most prevalent. Hell Id be willing to grant that he's objective most of the time but he has those he hates and his favs ( mjf and Cody especially) and it affects the way he does those particular reviews.


@The Wood, are you suggesting Cornette is incapable of having biases, or in his reviews, he is incapable of letting those biases affect his reviews?

I‘ve used his reviews of Cody and Jericho as evidence to the way he reviews matches and segments as well. For the most part, he is objective, but he very clearly has his blind spots like we all do. Like the general premise and culture of the show, he discusses “these goofs” and uses the show to condemn The Bucks, Kenny, and Khan, but this show is rarely used as an indictment on Cody. He tears AEW for having too many gimmick matches and finishes a new asshole “for burning through them” in one breath, then he laughs adoringly about Dusty loving a gimmicky finish, ie the same shit he ignores with Cody for the most part.

Now if I’m misrepresenting you I apologize, but Cornette definitely has his biases. We all do, and it is perfectly fine for him to have them. It makes him human, but it’s simply wrong to pretend they don’t exist.

I’ve seen more evidence that this site’s criticisms are heard than anything else.

I mean, my goddamn laser beam eyes idea as a response to Matt Hardy was used on BTE less than a week later in skit with Private Party who would eventually be managed by...MATT HARDY.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Except AEWs deal is set until 2023 soooo not the greatest comparison junior.


You're aware that TV shows can be moved and point blank cancelled, yeah? I guarantee TNT can cancel AEW at any point for free. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> If you really care, then posting your ideas on their Tweets would still make more of a difference than trying to make the fans on here feel wrong or feel like idiots for liking the show. It's not insanity to criticize in a general sense, but what I see here is not normal criticism. Its pure hatred. I don't want it to be all positive all the time. I like criticism because it shows me things that I didn't notice before. Even I have criticized the show on multiple occasions. But you have to admit that it does get a bit much with every thread turning into what they turn into though? You can't sit there and tell me that a lot of this forum isn't malicious towards the brand's image for some. It's like a hateful warzone in here when it doesn't need to be. There are levels to criticism.


But you are making assumptions.

1. I've never tried to make anyone feel wrong or like an idiot for liking the show. I actually get along with a fair few of the AEW fans so if I was just this big dickhead who makes them feel shitty why would they be friendly to me and vice versa?

2. Nobody has pure hatred towards your precious AEW. Please settle down.

3. I could see why AEW fans feel it's a "hateful warzone" (Again, you're exaggerating but I'll go with it) but I know a majority of the haters away from here. I've mentioned before we have a discord that we talk in and they're really good blokes who genuinely don't hate the product. They are 110% honest when they say they want it to improve because I see that away from here also. We all often disagree with one another also for example Cult03 liked the segment where Best Friends were dropped off by Trent's mum but I hated it. If we were all just blind haters we'd hate everything and agree with one another all the time.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> Does that review make sense though when he said both of last week's shows were equal and he finished AEW? I get what yall are saying in those regards but his words after dont match up with his actions.
> 
> The concentration on kenny and the young bucks is not about defending them or their work and more about highlighting the way he does reviews. We know with regards to Jimmy theres a special place in hell for those who break kayfabe and they've both done that over the course of their careers. Is alot of his criticism justified ? Sure, hell, most of it is. However, I can easily tell when he's reviewing someone he really doesn't like and also when he's reviewing someone he really likes. I only picked those guys cuz thats where the examples are most prevalent. Hell Id be willing to grant that he's objective most of the time but he has those he hates and his favs ( mjf and Cody especially) and it affects the way he does those particular reviews.


He said they were both rotten. It makes perfect sense. 

Hang on, there's a difference between reviewing someone you don't like and not liking them and letting that color your view of what they're doing. I'm not saying he likes Omega or The Bucks or that he doesn't like Cody or MJF. But that doesn't mean he won't call a spade a spade when it comes to Cody and MJF shit or Omega & The Bucks doing well, which I believe to be the implication. 



bdon said:


> @The Wood, are you suggesting Cornette is incapable of having biases, or in his reviews, he is incapable of letting those biases affect his reviews?
> 
> I‘ve used his reviews of Cody and Jericho as evidence to the way he reviews matches and segments as well. For the most part, he is objective, but he very clearly has his blind spots like we all do. Like the general premise and culture of the show, he discusses “these goofs” and uses the show to condemn The Bucks, Kenny, and Khan, but this show is rarely used as an indictment on Cody. He tears AEW for having too many gimmick matches and finishes a new asshole “for burning through them” in one breath, then he laughs adoringly about Dusty loving a gimmicky finish, ie the same shit he ignores with Cody for the most part.
> 
> Now if I’m misrepresenting you I apologize, but Cornette definitely has his biases. We all do, and it is perfectly fine for him to have them. It makes him human, but it’s simply wrong to pretend they don’t exist.


No, I'm not saying he doesn't have biases. I'm saying that he can like someone and give them a shitty review and not like someone and give them a good review. It usually depends on the content in front of him. I don't agree with the assertion that he cannot give people he doesn't like good reviews.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I remember in the 90s when there was the whole "Must-See TV" promotion on NBC, they were slaughtering the competion with shows like Seinfeld and Friends. Their concept was yes we want that 18 to 49 demo(but really it was more like 18 to 35), their product was aimed at these people that is why their cast were young and energetic and they catered to what people at this age were interested in. But here's the thing though, these shows had humongous ratings! So sure they were successful in their key demos but their key demo were huge, it was really a phenomena. And all the other demos watched it too. AEW may hit their key demos but it's nothing to write home about, it's barely nothing, a blimp. Notice that not even Spike TV were talking about demos when they had TNA. Cause they would have been embarrassed if they did. You either come play with the big boys or not. 

It's fine to want to hit your demo but the important thing is for your show to be a big success. Stop pumping your chest over little battles.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Well they are set until 2023 even if ratings decrease so that shows some confidence in the brand.


Lol, no they're not. TNT could cancel Dynamite at any time.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Woods defending Cornette over multiple threads
> 
> AEW stans defending Dynamite
> 
> = same energy 😂😂😂
> 
> one day woods, i hope you will be so much in AEWs corner, a position befitting the top dog here on dese here boards


AEW will give him exactly what he wants and he’ll say “No not like that”


----------



## The Wood

Wolf Mark said:


> I remember in the 90s when there was the whole "Must-See TV" promotion on NBC, they were slaughtering the competion with shows like Seinfeld and Friends. Their concept was yes we want that 18 to 49 demo(but really it was more like 18 to 35), their product was aimed at these people that is why their cast were young and energetic and they catered to what people at this age were interested in. But here's the thing though, these shows had humongous ratings! So sure they were successful in their key demos but their key demo were huge, it was really a phenomena. And all the other demos watched it too. AEW may hit their key demos but it's nothing to write home about, it's barely nothing, a blimp. Notice that not even Spike TV were talking about demos when they had TNA. Cause they would have been embarrassed if they did. You either come play with the big boys or not.
> 
> It's fine to want to hit your demo but the important thing is for your show to be a big success. Stop pumping your chest over little battles.


The demos were so much more valuable then too. I mean, that just goes to follow. People in that age bracket were watching TV. If you had the hottest TV show with them, you had entertainment by the balls. And the giant viewership meant that you were casting such a wide net too. It's great for overall awareness and creating the sense that you're in the actual zeitgeist. Hardly anyone knows AEW exists -- and most people even within the wrestling bubble don't care that it does, as much as that will pain some people to hear. Most people still prefer Raw and SmackDown, which is the biggest indictment you can give something.



NXT Only said:


> AEW will give him exactly what he wants and he’ll say “No not like that”


Stop making things up.


----------



## NXT Only

Garty said:


> Wow! This went right over your head didn't it? I was parodying what the Angry Aussies go-to responses would be.


I never know these days.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> The demos were so much more valuable then too. I mean, that just goes to follow. People in that age bracket were watching TV. If you had the hottest TV show with them, you had entertainment by the balls. And the giant viewership meant that you were casting such a wide net too. It's great for overall awareness and creating the sense that you're in the actual zeitgeist. Hardly anyone knows AEW exists -- and most people even within the wrestling bubble don't care that it does, as much as that will pain some people to hear. Most people still prefer Raw and SmackDown, which is the biggest indictment you can give something.


Pretty much. When I hear AEW talking about their demo, I think of Seinfeld and I roll on the floor laughing. This is when this stuff mattered. Hell just go with Raw and Nitro, they grabbed that demo by the balls and made it its bitch. lol Everybody was wearing Austin 3:16 and nWo t-shirts. 

I want AEW to succeed but they are just too entitled and unaware. There is so much ego there and in many ways it's the situation they have stumbled in. TK is a kid who had everything handed to him and he was lucky to AGAIN having something being handed to him as a fantastic TV deal for a top channel TNT. Something that Bischoff in 2001 would have died for. So the guy doesn't have to work for it for things to happen for him. And he doesn't understand how to really work for it. You have to have a warrior mentality to be successful. Instead, it's a joke, they are on a cruise ship wtth their friends.


----------



## bdon

I mean, it’s like his complaints of gimmick matches, yet he giggles at Dusty stating, “Hehe. Dusty LOVED to gimmick his matches!!”


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Who here doesn't feel that way?
> 
> Do you guys really think that if people didn't care about AEW getting better they would spend so much time talking about the things AEW should be doing to have a better show?
> 
> The past few weeks have literally been people saying: "Jericho vs Orange Cassidy is a dumb feud and will not draw ratings."
> 
> AEW fans responding: "No its great! Orange Cassidy can really go and is over"
> 
> _Match happens, ratings and viewership crater_
> 
> AEW fans: _shocked Pikachu face_ wELL AckTUaLLy I LikED iT! Y'ALL HATE AEW AND WANT IT TO FAIL


You still haven’t told me why the league tables are based on key demos


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> "Wood saying he likes drinking coffee. AEW stans saying they love drinking actual liquid faeces. Same energy."
> 
> I would love to have a wrestling product I can get behind. I'm rooting for MLW to get a big TV deal. I very much applaud New Japan for doing something interesting during a pandemic while other promotions sit on their hands and say you have to be boring. I'm not going to arbitrarily back a sick horse though. *Cornette has earned my support for being fucking smart and talking sense about something I love. I didn't decide I liked him one day for funsies.* I was on here touting the potential AEW had from day one, and they pissed on me and called it rain. They lost me. If they want me back, they can win me back.


same.... but only AEW

same energy


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> You still haven’t told me why the league tables are based on key demos


*You have been told numerous times.*



bdon said:


> I mean, it’s like his complaints of gimmick matches, yet he giggles at Dusty stating, “Hehe. Dusty LOVED to gimmick his matches!!”


That's not a fair go. He defends Dusty's booking in a lot of cases, but he also criticises it too. His favourite saying lately has been "it's like putting a hat on a hat." And I think he said that even Dusty did that. And I've heard him talk about Dusty's ego getting in the way of business and him foolishly repeating finishes too. You're enhancing his tone and making it perform for you. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> same.... but only AEW
> 
> same energy


Cornette's actually growing his audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Cornette's actually growing his audience.


Please, write an essay about it.... will read 👌


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Please, write an essay about it.... will read 👌


There's not much to say other than that. The number of people listening to his podcast are closing in on the number of people in that key demo watching AEW, haha.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> There's not much to say other than that. The number of people listening to his podcast are closing in on the number of people in that key demo watching AEW, haha.


But the number of people who watches DARK is close to his podcast number

so, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janela = Cornette in popularity


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But the number of people who watches DARK is close to his podcast number
> 
> so, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janela = Cornette in popularity


Given their platform and medium, I'd say this is something to be very, very embarrassed about.


----------



## Hephaesteus

After listening to cornette bitch about a female street fight cuz females shouldnt be doing that stuff, he's at best, a dinosaur with sexist tendencies.


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> You still haven’t told me why the league tables are based on key demos


Refresh my memory.. What exactly is the purpose of this question? It seem rhetorical.



The Wood said:


> There's not much to say other than that. The number of people listening to his podcast are closing in on the number of people in that key demo watching AEW, haha.


According to Social Media blade his channel on YouTube beats both the BTE and F4 in views every single day and he isn't far off from Cultaholic or What Culture Wrestling, which is crazy given the kind of content produced.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Refresh my memory.. What exactly is the purpose of this question? It seem rhetorical.


You argue that # of people watching the show is more important than the number of the key viewers (18-49) watching.
So tell me why the league tables are based on key demo and not the total number of people watching?


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Stop making things up.


Nice try weirdo.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> But the number of people who watches DARK is close to his podcast number
> 
> so, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janela = Cornette in popularity


Sonny Kiss and Cornette drawing the same amount of viewers and Cornette has a 40 year head start.

Kiss is going to be huge.



Hephaesteus said:


> After listening to cornette bitch about a female street fight cuz females shouldnt be doing that stuff, he's at best, a dinosaur with sexist tendencies.


Of course he’s a dinosaur. They all are. None of them like innovation or change.


----------



## Whoanma

bdon said:


> And fuck Kenny Omega in advance for selling Marko Stunt’s Canadian Destroyer this Wednesday, just to show how gracefully he can do a backflip on his fucking skull.


I’m dreading this.


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> You argue that # of people watching the show is more important than the number of the key viewers (18-49) watching.


When did I do that?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NXT Only said:


> Sonny Kiss and Cornette drawing the same amount of viewers and Cornette has a 40 year head start.
> 
> Kiss is going to be huge.


Can‘t wait for his podcast one day 

on an aside note - I think Sonny is going to shock people on Wed

the guy can actually ‘go’


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Lol, no they're not. TNT could cancel Dynamite at any time.







__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com





"Another benefit for AEW is that it just about protects them from being taken off the air through the end of 2023 if the ratings were to decrease."

I'm aware tv shows can be moved and canceled but it seems AEW has a bit of buffering room when it comes to this.In the contract there are things to protect TNT from a bidding war and some buffers to protect AEW as well.


----------



## Blade Runner

All of this shit is terribly misleading. The lauded 18-34 / 18-49 demo is only important in relevance to the advertising brands and who they're targeting. For example; CNN sucks HARD with this demo, but rack in tons of money from pharmaceutical companies. The disclosed portion of the ratings doesn't even take into account the C3 and C7 numbers, which tells the network who is actually watching the ads over a 3-7 post-Live period.

The disclosed ratings are only a metric used to gauge popularity trends. What Tony Khan fails to realize is that his program is DOWNTRENDING, whether or not he grabs more of the 18-34 demo than NXT doesn't mean shit if the show is failing to gain traction. It comes off as a convenient spin to say that you're winning with a particular demo, when the number for that demo sucks as a standalone observation. AEW's on-air product is aimed at the youth, so _no shit _they'll do a better number with them then the older demo, but this doesn't change the fact that their target audience is showing up in miniscule amounts. Advertisers see the weekly ratings going down, and that doesn't show any promise to the long term health of their investment.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

They've consistantly been in the top 10 or 20 shows in the demographic.


----------



## Garty

KYRA BATARA said:


> All of this shit is terribly misleading. The lauded 18-34 / 18-49 demo is only important in relevance to the advertising brands and who they're targeting. For example; CNN sucks HARD with this demo, but rack in tons of money from pharmaceutical companies. The disclosed portion of the ratings doesn't even take into account the C3 and C7 numbers, which tells the network who is actually watching the ads over a 3-7 post-Live period.
> 
> The disclosed ratings are only a metric used to gauge popularity trends. What Tony Khan fails to realize is that his program is DOWNTRENDING, whether or not he grabs more of the 18-34 demo than NXT doesn't mean shit if the show is failing to gain traction. It comes off as a convenient spin to say that you're winning with a particular demo, when the number for that demo sucks as a standalone observation. AEW's on-air product is aimed at the youth, so _no shit _they'll do a better number with them then the older demo, but this doesn't change the fact that their target audience is showing up in miniscule amounts. Advertisers see the weekly ratings going down, and that doesn't show any promise to the long term health of their investment.


Just so you know, the only reason CNN is even still around is because they have a contract with the airline industry, with every non-advertising and announcement display, running on all TV's, in all airports across the country. Dig into their financials and you'll see how little they really matter in the big-picture of WarnerMedia, other than name recognition. They've been eclipsed for years by Fox News and (much to my surprise) a resurgence of MSNBC. CNN is like WWE. It's been around forever, nothing's really changed, most everyone knows what it is, but they've moved on to something (whatever that may be) else. Each quarter, the newsrooms go into panic mode, thinking they'll be the next ones to go.

I have no idea how some users on this board have added 1+1 and gotten 16 from it. We're only talking 3 weeks. Not days, months or years, weeks. In one of those weeks, wasn't it a relative wash between the two? So, let's say 2 weeks for arguments sake? In just 2 weeks, some of you have "predicted" AEW is going off the air, being cancelled by TNT, switching nights, switching time-slots, shutting down, Cornette conspiracies, blah, blah, blah. because 2 out of 3 weeks, NXT has "beaten" AEW.

If you enjoy NXT, watch NXT. If you don't enjoy NXT, don't watch NXT. If you enjoy AEW, watch AEW. If you don't enjoy AEW, don't watch AEW. I am always baffled by the stubbornness of the haters. You've been "watching" for almost a full year now and if you haven't found something you're interested in yet, then I think, like CNN and WWE, it's time to move on to something (whatever that may be) else.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Garty said:


> Just so you know, the only reason CNN is even still around is because they have a contract with the airline industry, with every non-advertising and announcement display, running on all TV's, in all airports across the country. Dig into their financials and you'll see how little they really matter in the big-picture of WarnerMedia, other than name recognition. They've been eclipsed for years by Fox News and (much to my surprise) a resurgence of MSNBC. CNN is like WWE. It's been around forever, nothing's really changed, most everyone knows what it is, but they've moved on to something (whatever that may be) else. Each quarter, the newsrooms go into panic mode, thinking they'll be the next ones to go.
> 
> I have no idea how some users on this board have added 1+1 and gotten 16 from it. We're only talking 3 weeks. Not days, months or years, weeks. In one of those weeks, wasn't it a relative wash between the two? So, let's say 2 weeks for arguments sake? In just 2 weeks, some of you have "predicted" AEW is going off the air, being cancelled by TNT, switching nights, switching time-slots, shutting down, Cornette conspiracies, blah, blah, blah. because 2 out of 3 weeks, NXT has "beaten" AEW.
> 
> If you enjoy NXT, watch NXT. If you don't enjoy NXT, don't watch NXT. If you enjoy AEW, watch AEW. If you don't enjoy AEW, don't watch AEW. I am always baffled by the stubbornness of the haters. You've been "watching" for almost a full year now and if you haven't found something you're interested in yet, then I think, like CNN and WWE, it's time to move on to something (whatever that may be) else.


Agree whole heartedly nice post.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> After listening to cornette bitch about a female street fight cuz females shouldnt be doing that stuff, he's at best, a dinosaur with sexist tendencies.


It’s a psychology point that is totally valid. People need to work to who they are. It’s always been that way and always wikl



NXT Only said:


> Nice try weirdo.


What an eloquent response. When wrestling gives me what I want, I am happy. You are a



NXT Only said:


> Sonny Kiss and Cornette drawing the same amount of viewers and Cornette has a 40 year head start.
> 
> Kiss is going to be huge.


Yep, comparing the auxiliary program of a national television show and an audio op ed piece is fair. This is obviously a troll, but I hope it is becoming more obvious to people perusing how AEW apologists will say 



NXT Only said:


> Of course he’s a dinosaur. They all are. None of them like innovation or change.


All those out of touch fools. Compared to us with out 59% demo drop and 700k lost live viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Can‘t wait for his podcast one day
> 
> on an aside note - I think Sonny is going to shock people on Wed
> 
> the guy can actually ‘go’


yeah for sure

people who look at him and immediately judge are probably anti LGBTQ tbh.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> yeah for sure
> 
> people who look at him and immediately judge are probably anti LGBTQ tbh.


He’s a comedy wrestler who shakes his ass and does splits. How’d Orange Cassidy working angles with a star turn out?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> He’s a comedy wrestler who shakes his ass and does splits. How’d Orange Cassidy working angles with a star turn out?


if that's your idea of comedy.....


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> if that's your idea of comedy.....


It isn’t funny, but it is most definitely an attempt at comedy.

Let me guess, you think he is a serious goddamn performer!?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> It isn’t funny, but it is most definitely an attempt at comedy.
> 
> Let me guess, you think he is a serious goddamn performer!?


seems like a lot of fans are angry at sonny for shaking his ass and doing splits.

then they'll say it's comedy. the crux of it is that they feel like men should not be doing this.

that screams insecurity to me. it's antiLGBTQ.



bdon said:


> It isn’t funny, but it is most definitely an attempt at comedy.
> 
> Let me guess, you think he is a serious goddamn performer!?







show me the "comedy" in this match please. and then explain why you consider it to be comedy. it's a very old fashioned way of thinking.

don't get me wrong. i think he's not worth 2 pennies to be on Dynamite. However, i'm trying to understand why you consider his gimmick and wrestling style to be comedy.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> yeah for sure
> 
> people who look at him and immediately judge are probably anti LGBTQ tbh.


Alright, I don’t mind you coming after me because of your petty bullshit, but hijacking LGBTQ+ initiatives for your own bullshit is a red fucking line and you need to step right back. It is not phobic of any sort to suggest that a 150lbs man who can’t work, can’t sell and whose idea of “hurting someone” is to put his ass in their face is fucking stupid. I’d rather the dude fucking blow me than have to see that misguided content on a wrestling show.

Wrestling is supposed to be a fight. No matter what anyone else says, that is the WHOLE POINT. Simulated or not, “real” or not. If you put this guy in a position where he can do moves to people, kick out of other people’s moves, etc., you are fucking pissing on your audience. I don’t mind being blown, but don’t you fucking piss on me without my consent.

Stop trying this sideways “these are bad people” shit because you don’t like their arguments. It makes you slimy. And it’s a bit rich you talk about insecurity when you’ve resorted to that. Be better.



optikk sucks said:


> show me the "comedy" in this match please. and then explain why you consider it to be comedy. it's a very old fashioned way of thinking.
> 
> don't get me wrong. i think he's not worth 2 pennies to be on Dynamite. However, i'm trying to understand why you consider his gimmick and wrestling style to be comedy.


If you don’t think he deserves to be on Dynamite then WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM BEING ON DYNAMITE?!?!


----------



## bdon

He’s there to shake his ass and parade around the ring. He isn’t there to wrestle. His moves are soft as shit, and his sole purpose of being in the ring is to mock the heterosexual performer. “Haha. The homosexual got you!!”

THEY book him to be a goof. He could be booked legitimately like a Kaynon, not sure if he has it in him, but he has been booked to act as comedy relief.


----------



## Blade Runner

Garty said:


> Just so you know, the only reason CNN is even still around is because they have a contract with the airline industry, with every non-advertising and announcement display, running on all TV's, in all airports across the country. Dig into their financials and you'll see how little they really matter in the big-picture of WarnerMedia, other than name recognition. They've been eclipsed for years by Fox News and (much to my surprise) a resurgence of MSNBC. CNN is like WWE. It's been around forever, nothing's really changed, most everyone knows what it is, but they've moved on to something (whatever that may be) else. Each quarter, the newsrooms go into panic mode, thinking they'll be the next ones to go.
> 
> I have no idea how some users on this board have added 1+1 and gotten 16 from it. We're only talking 3 weeks. Not days, months or years, weeks. In one of those weeks, wasn't it a relative wash between the two? So, let's say 2 weeks for arguments sake? In just 2 weeks, some of you have "predicted" AEW is going off the air, being cancelled by TNT, switching nights, switching time-slots, shutting down, Cornette conspiracies, blah, blah, blah. because 2 out of 3 weeks, NXT has "beaten" AEW.
> 
> If you enjoy NXT, watch NXT. If you don't enjoy NXT, don't watch NXT. If you enjoy AEW, watch AEW. If you don't enjoy AEW, don't watch AEW. I am always baffled by the stubbornness of the haters. You've been "watching" for almost a full year now and if you haven't found something you're interested in yet, then I think, like CNN and WWE, it's time to move on to something (whatever that may be) else.


Not sure why you're strawman argumenting here and making this about "haters" having to move on, and predictions being made...

Stick to the point

Point being: 18-34 /18-48 demo isn't necessarily all that important in isolation. CNN gets sponsorship that lines up with all available demos, and they get a wealthy contribution from a powerful sponsor. "Winning" a demo only paints a fraction of the overall picture, and requires context. Who are AEW's sponsors? Does beating NXT on a demo mean that the number is any good? Subpar beating abysmal isn't really something worth celebrating.


You can't ignore the downtrend. AEW has been on a ratings decline since their debut, with only occasional and marginal increases. The chart is pretty eye-opening. No TV network can possibly be happy about this.


Tony Khan bragging about a demo victory on social media with those numbers is like a gradeschool child running to his parents to show them he got a D+ on his math exam instead of an F. It's a spin to take away from the fact that they not only lost in the overall rating, but also that the number is weak as hell and points to a company that doesn't know how to attract and maintain an audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> He’s there to shake his ass and parade around the ring. He isn’t there to wrestle. His moves are soft as shit, and his sole purpose of being in the ring is to mock the heterosexual performer. “Haha. The homosexual got you!!”
> 
> THEY book him to be a goof. He could be booked legitimately like a Kaynon, not sure if he has it in him, but he has been booked to act as comedy relief.


scared to quote me?

show me where the comedy is.


optikk sucks said:


> show me the "comedy" in this match please. and then explain why you consider it to be comedy. it's a very old fashioned way of thinking.
> 
> don't get me wrong. i think he's not worth 2 pennies to be on Dynamite. However, i'm trying to understand why you consider his gimmick and wrestling style to be comedy.


----------



## The Wood

bdon explained the comedy. You refuse to listen. I tried to watch that match to point to specific time stamps, but I actually had to stop watching. Daniels is usually great, but Kiss is fucking shit. Can’t do a waistlock or Irish whip properly. Nothing concrete about that rose.

He drags his opponent down to his level. The Cody match is going to be AWFUL. They piss all over Jericho and FTR last week. They’re going to do whatever damage they can to whatever Omega and Cody have this week. Moxley and MJF are next.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> seems like a lot of fans are angry at sonny for shaking his ass and doing splits.
> 
> then they'll say it's comedy. the crux of it is that they feel like men should not be doing this.
> 
> that screams insecurity to me. it's antiLGBTQ.


Way to edit your fucking response and change the goddamn argument after I already fucking posted, you POS.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Way to edit your fucking response and change the goddamn argument after I already fucking posted, you POS.


huh, where's the edit? lol there's no edit here bro. the site tells you when the post has been edited?

are you getting frustrated because you can't back up your point about him being a comedy wrestler?

he's a jobber, yes. but he's a BAME LGBTQ jobber and when men see him shake his ass, they don't like it and try and pass off their homophobia as "HE'S COMEDY HE SHOULDNT BE DOING THAT"

boy oh boy @bdon , you are coming off pure anti-lgbtq right now.

don't listen to cornette when it comes to this sort of thing. the man is a fan of big burly men because he envisions them dominating his wife. he's not into sonny kiss because sonny kiss is smaller than his wife and doesn't swing that way.

Sonny Kiss is a jobber. He's not a comedy jobber. He's not some man who shakes his ass for the amusement of the fans. he's a BAME LGBTQ jobber and he's proud of it. 

For people who consider themselves as accepting of LGBTQ, you are definitely sounding like the opposite. I don't think you are anti-LGBTQ. But to me, it does sound like it. You still haven't shown me where he does his "comedy" in that match with Daniels.


----------



## Ger

Like TnT (Turner) would admit in public they loose to Vince another time. In the beginning it was all about beating WWE and AEW had more than 1.1 million viewers. Meanwhile they fight with NXT for the 3th place, while SD and RAW are far ahead.



> almost every penny


Erm ... okay!




prosperwithdeen said:


> This is correct. They're top 10 in the demo and they are not even putting in PPV level effort in these Fyter Fest build-up shows or Fyter Fest itself.
> ...


So now we brag about showing no effort? 
Btw, RAW and SD show repeats half of the time. Sure they are from PPVs, but I would not call that PPV level effort showing old matches.



KYRA BATARA said:


> ...
> You can't ignore the downtrend. AEW has been on a ratings decline since their debut, with only occasional and marginal increases. The chart is pretty eye-opening. No TV network can possibly be happy about this.
> 
> 
> Tony Khan bragging about a demo victory on social media with those numbers is like a gradeschool child running to his parents to show them he got a D+ on his math exam instead of an F. It's a spin to take away from the fact that they not only lost in the overall rating, but also that the number is weak as hell and points to a company that doesn't know how to attract and maintain an audience.


This is exactly the problem. They have to turn the ship around, change a few thing and focus on beating WWE. The "small indy company" excuse doesn`t work on project by a billionaire. I hope Tony stops listening to the wrong people.


----------



## bdon

I haven’t watched the Daniels match. I’ve watched plenty of Sonny Kiss, though, and he is used as comic relief.

Did you really not edit your original post? I did not see your shaking his ass comment until well after I made that statement. He’s comedy wrestling for the same reasons that Marko Stunt is comedy. For the same reasons that Champagne Kanyon was not: he does not convey any conflict within the confines of a match. He prances, shakes his ass, does a split, and when trying to “fight” every ounce of offense comes off softer than any female in the company, including 95 pound Riho.

“Comedy wrestling” isn’t limited to fart jokes. It is comedy wrestling if the fight is clearly nothing of the sort and just an exhibition between two adults proving how fake wrestling is. Send that shit back to the indies.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah - saying Sonny is a ‘comedy’ character is wrong


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> *I haven’t watched the Daniels match. *


lol point proven. You are against flamboyant people who are proud to be LGBTQ. You’d rather they are stuck in the closet. You have no leg to stand on.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> lol point proven. You are against flamboyant people who are proud to be LGBTQ. You’d rather they are stuck in the closet. You have no leg to stand on.


No. Just if you’re going to perform the theatrics of fighting, then try to fight. Stop with the comedy stuff. These are the same arguments for and against Orange Cassidy: you must evolve once you reach this stage. There are too many eyes on the product for you to stop the show and remind your audience that theater is all fake.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> No. Just if you’re going to perform the theatrics of fighting, then try to fight. Stop with the comedy stuff. These are the same arguments for and against Orange Cassidy: you must evolve once you reach this stage. There are too many eyes on the product for you to stop the show and remind your audience that theater is all fake.


Huh. This is my argument - Kiss is not a comedy based jobber. We aren’t discussing orange Cassidy, who is certainly comedy-based. You’ve lost your way with the argument.
I don’t consider kiss’ flamboyance as comedy. It’s flamboyance. People are against Kiss because they are insecure. They’ll hide their insecurity behind the guise of “he’s comedy and comedy is trash”.

that’s a fact. That Daniels - kiss match had NO comedy. The only comedy I remember him doing was against Tommy Dreamer when he did that ass thing.

like @LifeInCattleClass said, when he faces Cody, there’ll be no comedy. People will still complain because they feel uncomfortable and insecure when a man is flamboyant.“COMEDY IS BAD” is their excuse.

And the fact that you’ve chosen to not watch the Daniels Kiss match tells me that you’re not willing to be wrong about this. You wish to be in your echo chamber.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> And the fact that you’ve chosen to not watch the Daniels Kiss match tells me that you’re not willing to be wrong about this. You wish to be in your echo chamber.


I don’t watch DARK. That’s why I’ve chose to not watch the Daniels match. I watched him against Shawn Spears and bragged that his personality actually helped Spears show some character. It’s one of my favorite Shawn Spears showings.

But if you’re going to be on Dynamite, do not play fight. It’s the same fucking reason Cassidy, who I also love, was the source of my angst in the initial Jericho buildup.

If Sonny Kiss acts like the match is something he wants to win and “fights”, then I’ll have no problem saying it wasn’t bad. Cassidy vs Pac had all the makings of a shit match, but it turned out alright and fun.

But I fully expect Sonny Kiss to shake his ass, do his split (opening himself up to a kick in the teeth that won’t come making Cody look stupid), the match to last roughly 10 minutes, and I’d almost guarantee Cody has his face in Kiss’s ass at some point.

I’m an Omega fucking mark, but you better fucking believe I’ve already posted a big ol’ fuck you to him for selling the Marko Stunt Canadian Destoyer that is sure to come.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I don’t watch DARK. That’s why I’ve chose to not watch the Daniels match. I watched him against Shawn Spears and bragged that his personality actually helped Spears show some character. It’s one of my favorite Shawn Spears showings.
> 
> But if you’re going to be on Dynamite, do not play fight. It’s the same fucking reason Cassidy, who I also love, was the source of my angst in the initial Jericho buildup.
> 
> If Sonny Kiss acts like the match is something he wants to win and “fights”, then I’ll have no problem saying it wasn’t bad. Cassidy vs Pac had all the makings of a shit match, but it turned out alright and fun.
> 
> But I fully expect Sonny Kiss to shake his ass, do his split (opening himself up to a kick in the teeth that won’t come making Cody look stupid), the match to last roughly 10 minutes, and I’d almost guarantee Cody has his face in Kiss’s ass at some point.
> 
> I’m an Omega fucking mark, but you better fucking believe I’ve already posted a big ol’ fuck you to him for selling the Marko Stunt Canadian Destoyer that is sure to come.


Yeah ok. But I just don’t see how flamboyance = comedy.
That’s many take on it. Glad we could have this discussion.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Luckily Sonny is the best

lots of people have called him.... a British word for cigarette this week

but the guy is class


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282782196244385797


----------



## NathanMayberry

Ger said:


> This is exactly the problem. They have to turn the ship around, change a few thing and focus on beating WWE. The "small indy company" excuse doesn`t work on project by a billionaire. I hope Tony stops listening to the wrong people.


If you read his tweets, clearly he's not going to.


----------



## Ger

NathanMayberry said:


> If you read his tweets, clearly he's not going to.


You can laugh about me, but I got more hopes into a 37yo changing his mind than I got into a 73yo doing that.


----------



## bdon

I really hope he takes this match seriously, even if he’s going to lose.

You want the LGBT community to get more opportunities, then you go into this and treat it like a shot on Broadway. You don’t do all of the typical Sonny Kiss spots as a means to show your character to a larger audience. You show your personality, show your toughness in a “fight”, and prove that one’s sexual orientation does not preclude them to being incapable of throwing a punch.

Sadly, I expect him to go out there and play to the stereotype.



optikk sucks said:


> Yeah ok. But I just don’t see how flamboyance = comedy.
> That’s many take on it. Glad we could have this discussion.


Do you not see how purposely shaking your ass and doing a split, i.e. opening yourself to attack, makes your opponent and the entire match look incredibly stupid? Everyone over the age of 8 sees that moment and asks themselves, “Why doesn’t the opponent just hit him?”

Comedy wrestling, for me, is any time when the wrestling takes on the Deadpool-esque, “Haha. Look at us, we know you know this is fake, so here we are playing up the scripted nature of all of this. Haha..”

Take it serious this week.


----------



## TripleG

The demo has always been the most important part of the ratings. That's never changed. It was true 20 years ago during the Monday Night Wars, and its true now, and its been true across the board for decades. 

That's why AEW is ranked above NXT despite NXT having the overall larger audience. Advertisers care about the demo more than anything else because those are the ones that spend the money. Again, I was having these discussions with people 10 years ago when TNA's audience was over a million, but IIRC, their demos were really weak. 

Again, none of this is new information. Wrestling fans are the only ones that care about the overall audience number, for some reason. Maybe its because of the MNWs and how those arguments and debates were fueled, but nobody else cares all that much.


----------



## The Wood

optikk, seriously cut out the straw-man calling anyone who dislikes Sonny Kiss anti-LGBTQ+ stuff. It’s horrible. bdon is giving you way more patience than you deserve.


----------



## Ger

TripleG said:


> The demo has always been the most important part of the ratings. That's never changed. It was true 20 years ago during the Monday Night Wars, and its true now, and its been true across the board for decades.
> 
> That's why AEW is ranked above NXT despite NXT having the overall larger audience. Advertisers care about the demo more than anything else because those are the ones that spend the money.
> ...


Nice expert talk, but you ignored the obvious, so there is no need to go into that. AEW Dynamite is just the C or D show, but not the A and B show.
If advertisers will try to promote their products and they are unsure between AEW and WWE: WWE got the bigger shows with SD and RAW, doesn`t matter which numbers you take. If a advertiser wants to drop commercials on wednesday also, WWE can always give them NXT for a cheap price, additionally to normal SD and RAW advertises.
If a advertiser goes over the TV station, Fox and SD both got the bigger wrestling shows in their portfolio. NXT is just a bonus to RAW which you can take with one deal. Nobody negotiates with WWE/USA for RAW and then starts another negotiation with AEW/TNT. They will just take another deal for NXT, which Vince/USA is for sure willing to give them for a low price.


----------



## Swan-San

Sonny Kiss is comedy, he's too flamboyant and doesn't act like he can fight. Doesn't matter if he's as straight as straight can be or whatever. Him prancing around dancing and fighting like a diva looks weak and amatuer.

The guy just completely sucks all round. You can be gay and be taken seriously lol. Being gay has nothing to do with him absolutely sucking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

For those that missed the first one

some good matches on there


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282756254583201795


----------



## TripleG

Ger said:


> Nice expert talk, but you ignored the obvious, so there is no need to go into that. AEW Dynamite is just the C or D show, but not the A and B show.
> If advertisers will try to promote their products and they are unsure between AEW and WWE: WWE got the bigger shows with SD and RAW, doesn`t matter which numbers you take. If a advertiser wants to drop commercials on wednesday also, WWE can always give them NXT for a cheap price, additionally to normal SD and RAW advertises.
> If a advertiser goes over the TV station, Fox and SD both got the bigger wrestling shows in their portfolio. NXT is just a bonus to RAW which you can take with one deal. Nobody negotiates with WWE/USA for RAW and then starts another negotiation with AEW/TNT. They will just take another deal for NXT, which Vince/USA is for sure willing to give them for a low price.


I don't pretend to be an expert, and I'm fully aware of everything you said. 

I just never understood why people are quibbling over the numbers between the two Wednesday night shows when its pretty clear. 

And also, the whole discussion, to me, is not worth much to me because wrestling television in the middle of this pandemic sucks anyway, and the numbers for shows across the board are reflecting that.


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> Refresh my memory.. What exactly is the purpose of this question? It seem rhetorical.


He thinks there is some significant to how Showbuzz ranks tjings



$Dolladrew$ said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Another benefit for AEW is that it just about protects them from being taken off the air through the end of 2023 if the ratings were to decrease."
> 
> I'm aware tv shows can be moved and canceled but it seems AEW has a bit of buffering room when it comes to this.In the contract there are things to protect TNT from a bidding war and some buffers to protect AEW as well.


I do not take an op ed piece from WrestlingInc as evidence. Dave Meltzer himself said that TNT can cancel AEW at any time. 



KYRA BATARA said:


> All of this shit is terribly misleading. The lauded 18-34 / 18-49 demo is only important in relevance to the advertising brands and who they're targeting. For example; CNN sucks HARD with this demo, but rack in tons of money from pharmaceutical companies. The disclosed portion of the ratings doesn't even take into account the C3 and C7 numbers, which tells the network who is actually watching the ads over a 3-7 post-Live period.
> 
> The disclosed ratings are only a metric used to gauge popularity trends. What Tony Khan fails to realize is that his program is DOWNTRENDING, whether or not he grabs more of the 18-34 demo than NXT doesn't mean shit if the show is failing to gain traction. It comes off as a convenient spin to say that you're winning with a particular demo, when the number for that demo sucks as a standalone observation. AEW's on-air product is aimed at the youth, so _no shit _they'll do a better number with them then the older demo, but this doesn't change the fact that their target audience is showing up in miniscule amounts. Advertisers see the weekly ratings going down, and that doesn't show any promise to the long term health of their investment.


Excellent. Fucking. Post.



$Dolladrew$ said:


> They've consistantly been in the top 10 or 20 shows in the demographic.


So? That doesn’t mean the advertisers aren’t reaching less and less people. Businesses don’t _need_ to advertise with cable shows. 



Garty said:


> Just so you know, the only reason CNN is even still around is because they have a contract with the airline industry, with every non-advertising and announcement display, running on all TV's, in all airports across the country. Dig into their financials and you'll see how little they really matter in the big-picture of WarnerMedia, other than name recognition. They've been eclipsed for years by Fox News and (much to my surprise) a resurgence of MSNBC. CNN is like WWE. It's been around forever, nothing's really changed, most everyone knows what it is, but they've moved on to something (whatever that may be) else. Each quarter, the newsrooms go into panic mode, thinking they'll be the next ones to go.
> 
> I have no idea how some users on this board have added 1+1 and gotten 16 from it. We're only talking 3 weeks. Not days, months or years, weeks. In one of those weeks, wasn't it a relative wash between the two? So, let's say 2 weeks for arguments sake? In just 2 weeks, some of you have "predicted" AEW is going off the air, being cancelled by TNT, switching nights, switching time-slots, shutting down, Cornette conspiracies, blah, blah, blah. because 2 out of 3 weeks, NXT has "beaten" AEW.
> 
> If you enjoy NXT, watch NXT. If you don't enjoy NXT, don't watch NXT. If you enjoy AEW, watch AEW. If you don't enjoy AEW, don't watch AEW. I am always baffled by the stubbornness of the haters. You've been "watching" for almost a full year now and if you haven't found something you're interested in yet, then I think, like CNN and WWE, it's time to move on to something (whatever that may be) else.


Nobody is “predicting” AEW going off the air because of two ratings. Show me any post that has said that. Stop lying.


----------



## NXT Only

How is someone who doesn’t know the industry going to tell Tony Khan...nevermind


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> How is someone who doesn’t know the industry going to tell Tony Khan...nevermind


Tony Khan doesn’t know the industry either. And there are plenty of people who do _on his payroll_ that he doesn’t listen to.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Ger said:


> You can laugh about me, but I got more hopes into a 37yo changing his mind than I got into a 73yo doing that.


Its not even a matter of changing his mind. It would take getting rid of the hopelessly unqualified EVPs that he's placed in positions they have no business being. They're the ones either suggesting or reinforcing the bad booking decisions being made.

Tony Khan seems like a people please above all else. I don't see much changing...


----------



## Mister Sinister

When this match murders their rating this week, what will the excuse be? The whole world is wrong about what they want and don't want? Didn't this company launch with the promise that it was going to listen to fans unlike Vince McMahon?



optikk sucks said:


> seems like a lot of fans are angry at sonny for shaking his ass and doing splits.
> 
> then they'll say it's comedy. the crux of it is that they feel like men should not be doing this.
> 
> that screams insecurity to me. it's antiLGBTQ.


I'll say it. Male wrestlers shouldn't be doing that. It's gross. If I were turned on by male ass, I'd watch gay or tran porn. AEW is literally saying, "Look at that sweet ass popping out of those shorts." And the audience is saying, "My kids aren't watching this" and "Oh, this is a gay wrestling show." Most viewers are seeing Sonny and seeing the whole product as a show that is intended for gay audiences and not them.


----------



## Garty

KYRA BATARA said:


> Not sure why you're strawman argumenting here and making this about "haters" having to move on, and predictions being made...
> 
> Stick to the point
> 
> Point being: 18-34 /18-48 demo isn't necessarily all that important in isolation. CNN gets sponsorship that lines up with all available demos, and they get a wealthy contribution from a powerful sponsor. "Winning" a demo only paints a fraction of the overall picture, and requires context. Who are AEW's sponsors? Does beating NXT on a demo mean that the number is any good? Subpar beating abysmal isn't really something worth celebrating.
> 
> 
> You can't ignore the downtrend. AEW has been on a ratings decline since their debut, with only occasional and marginal increases. The chart is pretty eye-opening. No TV network can possibly be happy about this.
> 
> 
> Tony Khan bragging about a demo victory on social media with those numbers is like a gradeschool child running to his parents to show them he got a D+ on his math exam instead of an F. It's a spin to take away from the fact that they not only lost in the overall rating, but also that the number is weak as hell and points to a company that doesn't know how to attract and maintain an audience.


Umm, no. Tony Khan was telling you (meaning everyone) how the ratings work. Was he a "cry-baby" about it, or was he correcting all the "intellectuals", that seem to have a better knowledge and understanding of how ratings and demos work, than he does? You even had two top wrestling journalists, from two of the most trusted websites for wrestling news and information, both confirming that WarnerMedia was more than happy with AEW's ratings and demos. And even a day or two later, you had an actual TNT Executive, interviewed, discussing this very topic, saying that only the demos matter in the end. So, you can all pretend that you just didn't read any of that, or you can face the actual facts that were presented to you and move along and bitch about something else.

No one is trying to hide the fact that AEW ratings have been down since the show began. You can apply that same logic to almost every show that's ever been on TV. Of course there are exceptions, but sooner or later, your audience will shrink over time and settle in to a median number of viewers. When there is no more money to be made, acquiring sponsors, advertisers, etc. that's when it's time to worry. Right now, AEW has nothing to worry about.

Take another look at CNN's ratings. The reason for any increment of viewers today, has been due to CV-19, civil unrest and the fact that, again, it's CNN. A news network that has been around forever and familiar enough with an international audience, that has known CNN is always "there", if they want more out of their daily news and information. CNN's demos can't hold a candle to what Fox News has/does every day and long before CV-19, civil unrest, etc. were considered news stories.

One more thing, can we please stop with the "straw-man" analogies?! I don't think I've ever read, or heard, in my entire lifetime, that term being spoken as much as it has here. You do know that opinions are a 2-way street, right?


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> It’s a psychology point that is totally valid. People need to work to who they are. It’s always been that way and always wikl


Its not at all valid. Just cuz a woman uses a weapon doesn't make her as dangerous as a male using a weapon. Weapons only as effective as its wielder. Saying that a match ruins the mystique of a weapon just cuz its no sold by a small woman is to ignore the events surrounding said match.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> Its not at all valid. Just cuz a woman uses a weapon doesn't make her as dangerous as a male using a weapon. Weapons only as effective as its wielder. Saying that a match ruins the mystique of a weapon just cuz its no sold by a small woman is to ignore the events surrounding said match.


Then you have to factor in how that fits the context of a wider show. Psychology extends beyond one match and into how that match fits a card

Which is what Cornette said. He could get into it if it were stars, but it’s two preliminary women. It would be annoying if two preliminary men were doing it.



Garty said:


> Umm, no. Tony Khan was telling you (meaning everyone) how the ratings work. Was he a "cry-baby" about it, or was he correcting all the "intellectuals", that seem to have a better knowledge and understanding of how ratings and demos work, than he does? You even had two top wrestling journalists, from two of the most trusted websites for wrestling news and information, both confirming that WarnerMedia was more than happy with AEW's ratings and demos. And even a day or two later, you had an actual TNT Executive, interviewed, discussing this very topic, saying that only the demos matter in the end. So, you can all pretend that you just didn't read any of that, or you can face the actual facts that were presented to you and move along and bitch about something else.
> 
> No one is trying to hide the fact that AEW ratings have been down since the show began. You can apply that same logic to almost every show that's ever been on TV. Of course there are exceptions, but sooner or later, your audience will shrink over time and settle in to a median number of viewers. When there is no more money to be made, acquiring sponsors, advertisers, etc. that's when it's time to worry. Right now, AEW has nothing to worry about.
> 
> Take another look at CNN's ratings. The reason for any increment of viewers today, has been due to CV-19, civil unrest and the fact that, again, it's CNN. A news network that has been around forever and familiar enough with an international audience, that has known CNN is always "there", if they want more out of their daily news and information. CNN's demos can't hold a candle to what Fox News has/does every day and long before CV-19, civil unrest, etc. were considered news stories.
> 
> One more thing, can we please stop with the "straw-man" analogies?! I don't think I've ever read, or heard, in my entire lifetime, that term being spoken as much as it has here. You do know that opinions are a 2-way street, right?


Tony Khan went online whinging because his special got beaten. Even most AEW super fans can admit that. He didn’t educate a single person on a single thing. Besides, _that’s not his job._ But he wasn’t doing that. He was crying because apparently the demo is all that matters with Raw and SmackDown (which is a lie, as viewership is constantly and primarily targeted), and went on uncomfortable tirades about drinking wine and citing Showbuzz charts. He had a meltdown like he too often does when called out.

Which wrestling journalists are you referring to? Dave Meltzer? He’s biased as fuck. He is literally friends with the AEW guys and Tony Khan’s wrestling education is cited as coming from reading the Observer. And no, a TNT executive has not come out and said that key demos are all that matters. That article was an outside op ed piece that quoted Brad Siegel from the 90’s.

If you want to stop being called out for setting up straw-men, stop setting up straw-men. It’s not anyone else’s false you can’t reason without stooping to logical fallacies.


----------



## Blade Runner

Garty said:


> Umm, no. Tony Khan was telling you (meaning everyone) how the ratings work. Was he a "cry-baby" about it, or was he correcting all the "intellectuals", that seem to have a better knowledge and understanding of how ratings and demos work, than he does? You even had two top wrestling journalists, from two of the most trusted websites for wrestling news and information, both confirming that WarnerMedia was more than happy with AEW's ratings and demos. And even a day or two later, you had an actual TNT Executive, interviewed, discussing this very topic, saying that only the demos matter in the end. So, you can all pretend that you just didn't read any of that, or you can face the actual facts that were presented to you and move along and bitch about something else.


An owner of a major wrestling promotion going on Twitter and bragging about winning a demo sounds like desperation to me. Both AEW and NXT are doing shit numbers weekly. If I were Khan I'd just keep my fingers away from the keyboard before indulging in the next spin.

Same guy, mind you, that tried to be the Chief Social Justice Warrior of the hour by publicly banning a woman from his shows that likely doesn't even know about his promotion, and following that up with a mention that her husband (Hulk and Linda have been divorced for over a decade) is also banned.

Factual accuracy and PR _clearly_ isn't his strong suit.



> No one is trying to hide the fact that AEW ratings have been down since the show began. You can apply that same logic to almost every show that's ever been on TV. Of course there are exceptions, but sooner or later, your audience will shrink over time and settle in to a median number of viewers. When there is no more money to be made, acquiring sponsors, advertisers, etc. that's when it's time to worry. Right now, AEW has nothing to worry about.


"Sooner or later"

AEW's audience has been shrinking on a weekly basis, to the point where they're now lost 2/3rds of the audience that sampled their show. This isn't even a case where a show once got hot, had it's moment in the sun before starting a decline. AEW never had any real momentum if you look at the most popular television metric available. If the trend continues in it's trajectory, then you bet your ass that they'll be re-valuated by TNT. It's crazy to say that they have nothing to worry about when interest is _clearly_ waning. 

Meltzer is an AEW shill. Not sure about the other reporter. TNT "Exec" saying that demos are important to them goes without saying. If AEW is beating NXT in a specific demo doesn't mean it's a satisfactory number to the network.



> Take another look at CNN's ratings. The reason for any increment of viewers today, has been due to CV-19, civil unrest and the fact that, again, it's CNN. A news network that has been around forever and familiar enough with an international audience, that has known CNN is always "there", if they want more out of their daily news and information. CNN's demos can't hold a candle to what Fox News has/does every day and long before CV-19, civil unrest, etc. were considered news stories.


This is probably why you see "straw-man" accusations thrown around so frequently. You're dancing around the point yet again.

I wasn't trying to justify why or if they're popular. I'm talking about the money they're making by having a major backer that targets all demos.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Mister Sinister said:


> When this match murders their rating this week, what will the excuse be? The whole world is wrong about what they want and don't want? Didn't this company launch with the promise that it was going to listen to fans unlike Vince McMahon?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it. Male wrestlers shouldn't be doing that. It's gross. If I were turned on by male ass, I'd watch gay or tran porn. AEW is literally saying, "Look at that sweet ass popping out of those shorts." And the audience is saying, "My kids aren't watching this" and "Oh, this is a gay wrestling show." Most viewers are seeing Sonny and seeing the whole product as a show that is intended for gay audiences and not them.


Atleast you’re man enough to admit it and not hide under the guise of “comedy”.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> But the number of people who watches DARK is close to his podcast number
> 
> so, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janela = Cornette in popularity


You guys are silly.

AEW has a national television deal that promotes Dark every week, it has active television wrestlers on it including some pretty big stars such as Cody, Omega, Moxley etc. The fact a man approaching 60 who hasn't been involved in wrestling full time for 8 years and his lovable co host can match that is actually an insult towards AEW.

You are pleased that AEW is neck and neck with Cornette when you yourself are a person that argues Cornette is irrelevant.



optikk sucks said:


> seems like a lot of fans are angry at sonny for shaking his ass and doing splits.
> 
> then they'll say it's comedy. the crux of it is that they feel like men should not be doing this.
> 
> that screams insecurity to me. it's antiLGBTQ.


Lol, I knew this would come from someone eventually. 

I've known many gay people and they all hate people who act like Sonny. I had a gay buddy who I went to mardi gra with (Big celebration in Sydney to show support to gay people) and a group of flamboyant gay men walked past and he turned to me and said "Fucking f**s" and kept walking.

He later explained to me that those types bring the gay community down and turn people against them because people think he's like them and he isn't. I personally think people should do what they want but I certainly felt for my friend for being lumped in with those guys.




optikk sucks said:


> huh, where's the edit? lol there's no edit here bro. the site tells you when the post has been edited?
> 
> are you getting frustrated because you can't back up your point about him being a comedy wrestler?
> 
> he's a jobber, yes. but he's a BAME LGBTQ jobber and when men see him shake his ass, they don't like it and try and pass off their homophobia as "HE'S COMEDY HE SHOULDNT BE DOING THAT"


Bro, I don't think I'd be into anyone shaking their ass whether gay, lesbian, bi, straight, black, white, Asian etc. Michael Nakazawa is a straight guy (To my knowledge) and we all shit on him for his stupid thong spot and oil. Orange Cassidy doesn't do anything sexual but there is like a 20 page thread about how much he sucks. The people here hate dumb unrealistic comedy so you trying to make it a LGBTQ mater when it isn't kind of paints you as homophobic.



Mister Sinister said:


> I'll say it. Male wrestlers shouldn't be doing that. It's gross. If I were turned on by male ass, I'd watch gay or tran porn. AEW is literally saying, "Look at that sweet ass popping out of those shorts." And the audience is saying, "My kids aren't watching this" and "Oh, this is a gay wrestling show." Most viewers are seeing Sonny and seeing the whole product as a show that is intended for gay audiences and not them.


Not just males but females also. I was never into when Torrie Wilson would pull her tights down and stink face her opponent. Yeah, Torrie is hot and has a nice ass and I liked seeing that but was it necessary? Not really. Kind of embarrassing for Torrie having to put her ass in her friends faces every night although I'm sure she was a team player and didn't complain.

I'm just a big believer in that we don't need to identify people by their sexuality in the wrestling world. Kanyon was gay but he was a total bad ass, Paige is bisexual and she was a total bad ass as well. Even my man Orlando Jordan had his most successful run of his career when his sexuality wasn't a factor and he was just a bad ass assistant to JBL but upon going to TNA his identity kind of became "Bi sexuals are creepy" and it turned people against him. Luckily he won them back later with his odd couple tag team with Eric Young.

Sonny Kiss' entire deal is that he's gay that's literally the only thing he brings to the table.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Sonny Kiss is green as grass, OTT and just generally bad.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Tony Khan doesn’t know the industry either. And there are plenty of people who do _on his payroll_ that he doesn’t listen to.


This is a hilarious post.

First you said he doesn’t know it “either” Implying that you yourself don’t know shit yet walk around here with your chest out like you know it all.

Then you said he has people on his payroll that he doesn’t listen to. How the hell would you know about it? You don’t work for AEW.

You are a fool.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> This is a hilarious post.
> 
> First you said he doesn’t know it “either” Implying that you yourself don’t know shit yet walk around here with your chest out like you know it all.
> 
> Then you said he has people on his payroll that he doesn’t listen to. How the hell would you know about it? You don’t work for AEW.
> 
> You are a fool.


You say I walk around here with my chest out (which isn’t possible, this isn’t a physical space like that), and then point to an incident where I show humility to mock me? Hmm, okay. Sounds like you’re projecting your own ideas onto others and trying to get them to perform within those confines.

I know that Tony Khan doesn’t listen to his employees because I’ve seen JR go onto Twitter to get his ideas hurt. And I’ve heard Arn Anderson talk about things he doesn’t like in wresting and seen them put out on AEW TV. I’ve


----------



## NXT Only

^More nothing


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> ^More nothing


How is that nothing? You constantly dismiss without making an actual point.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> How is that nothing? You constantly dismiss without making an actual point.


More nothing.

Suggesting Tony isn’t listening to his team
is asinine. I will not entertain such conversation.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Suggesting Tony isn’t listening to his team
> is asinine. I will not entertain such conversation.


Hearing them and listening to them are two different things. Why else would JR go public about talent he thinks AEW should sign? It’s a whistle to try and get enough people talking about them/get them noticed by WWE. You know that JR hates the silly stuff he has to call. Why is it still happening? Arn Anderson is just collecting a paycheck, you can tell by his answer when Conrad asks him whether he supports the silly stuff AEW does.

You’re just starting from the presumption you want and refusing any evidence that doesn’t fit that paradigm.


----------



## rexmundi

AEW needs to start reversing the month long trend of their main event getting hammered against NXT because that seems to be the biggest disparity in their head to head ratings.. Cage vs Mox is a good start but they need to somehow get viewer attention without solely doing "huge" matches. Keeping Cody and his challenge matches from closing is probably a good start.


----------



## bdon

I’m only here to predict that Wednesday night wrestling’s combined numbers will absolutely surpass Raw’s numbers this week.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Hearing them and listening to them are two different things. Why else would JR go public about talent he thinks AEW should sign? It’s a whistle to try and get enough people talking about them/get them noticed by WWE. You know that JR hates the silly stuff he has to call. Why is it still happening? Arn Anderson is just collecting a paycheck, you can tell by his answer when Conrad asks him whether he supports the silly stuff AEW does.
> 
> You’re just starting from the presumption you want and refusing any evidence that doesn’t fit that paradigm.


AEW is a company of variety. Not old school rasslin'.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I’m only here to predict that Wednesday night wrestling’s combined numbers will absolutely surpass Raw’s numbers this week.


I predicted this back in January. It’s going to happen. Makes no difference as it’s the key demo which is important. However, that is also on a downward trend for RAW. If AEW stay consistent, they’ll meet that by the end of 2021.


----------



## Britz94xD

Cornette was right when he said Cody was the only one doing pro-rasslin, everyone else is doing goofy variety god knows what.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I’m only here to predict that Wednesday night wrestling’s combined numbers will absolutely surpass Raw’s numbers this week.


Ooh, it’s gonna be close. You’re on! I’m going with an estimated 1.3 million watching Wednesday night. 



NXT Only said:


> AEW is a company of variety. Not old school rasslin'.


When they deviate from “rasslin’” is when they get hammered. 



Britz94xD said:


> Cornette was right when he said Cody was the only one doing pro-rasslin, everyone else is doing goofy variety god knows what.


 You’ve succumbed to the dark side. Muwahahaha. Honestly, it’s very nice over here.


----------



## Britz94xD

The Wood said:


> You’ve succumbed to the dark side. Muwahahaha. Honestly, it’s very nice over here.


I'm still rooting for them, just they make it hard sometimes.


----------



## LongPig666

NXT Only said:


> AEW is a company of variety. Not old school rasslin'.


If the internet was up and running in the 70's they would still moan about rasslin' and force their clinical group pessimism on no one who cares. 

"OMG The Minnesota Wrecking crew are so overrated and fat".
"Jim Crockett is led by a whiny little rich boy who knows nothing about creative."
"Ric Flair just can't do promo like Jumpin' Jeff Farmer can!!!"
"Mr Fuji should fuck off back to Japan if he can't speak proper English. Get him off my TV."


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> If the internet was up and running in the 70's they would still moan about rasslin' and force their clinical group pessimism on no one who cares.
> 
> "OMG The Minnesota Wrecking crew are so overrated and fat".
> "Jim Crockett is led by a whiny little rich boy who knows nothing about creative."
> "Ric Flair just can't do promo like Jumpin' Jeff Farmer can!!!"
> "Mr Fuji should fuck off back to Japan if he can't speak proper English. Get him off my TV."


Ah, yes — the old “everything is the same” argument.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I predicted this back in January. It’s going to happen. Makes no difference as it’s the key demo which is important. However, that is also on a downward trend for RAW. If AEW stay consistent, they’ll meet that by the end of 2021.


they’re almost touching tips on that key demo

RAW is almost now where AEW was at launch on the demo

if AEW can put something massive together, it will be interesting


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they’re almost touching tips on that key demo
> 
> RAW is almost now where AEW was at launch on the demo
> 
> if AEW can put something massive together, it will be interesting


I think they need to attract F18-49 for that to happen. Show is strong for M18-49


----------



## The Wood

Why do people think that AEW is going to go up? There is no evidence-based reasoning to support this hypothesis. It is going to keep trending down. Raw has a better chance of recouping a couple of fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I think they need to attract F18-49 for that to happen. Show is strong for M18-49


yup f18-49is gonna be hard with real Housewives on

maybe next week when MTV Challenge ends? It is its final tonight, so it’ll do a big number

but ideally next week there is less competition


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yup f18-49is gonna be hard with real Housewives on
> 
> maybe next week when MTV Challenge ends? It is its final tonight, so it’ll do a big number
> 
> but ideally next week there is less competition


let's hope so. i also think Brandi Rhodes has the right idea with Heels. I feel they need to push that more.

btw how would you feel about a female commentator?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> let's hope so. i also think Brandi Rhodes has the right idea with Heels. I feel they need to push that more.
> 
> btw how would you feel about a female commentator?


yeah, heels is a really good concept and it is getting rave reviews online

i would not mind a female commentator at all / not sure that will bump up the f-demo / but worth a try

would be interesting to see what Renee could do in a place without some dude in her ear all the time


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Why do people think that AEW is going to go up? There is no evidence-based reasoning to support this hypothesis. It is going to keep trending down. Raw has a better chance of recouping a couple of fans.


Oh I dunno perhaps we are optimistic instead of pessimistic?


----------



## AEWMoxley

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Oh I dunno perhaps we are optimistic instead of pessimistic?


Keep in kind that there's a UFC card tonight. There's a decent probability that it will eat into Dynamite's demo.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> Keep in kind that there's a UFC card tonight. There's a decent probability that it will eat into Dynamite's demo.


UFC is at 9:00 and Dynamite is at 7:00 so it won't "eat" into Dynamite's viewerahip.


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEWMoxley said:


> Keep in kind that there's a UFC card tonight. There's a decent probability that it will eat into Dynamite's demo.


The excuses have started.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> UFC is at 9:00 and Dynamite is at 7:00 so it won't "eat" into Dynamite's viewerahip.


UFC card starts at 7 and ends past midnight. Dynamite starts at 8.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> UFC card starts at 7 and ends past midnight. Dynamite starts at 8.


Thats still an excuse for when Dynamite's viewership and tv ratings are low tommorow y'all can try and rationalize it with "oh well UFC was on."


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats still an excuse for when Dynamite's viewership and tv ratings are low tommorow y'all can try and rationalize it with "oh well UFC was on."


Try to stay on topic, sweetie. The post you were replying to made no excuses for Dynamite's poor quality the last several months or the subpar card tonight, outside of the main event. It was a statement of fact. The UFC is on, and they typically do well with AEW's key demo. It's not a big UFC card, but Dynamite tonight isn't exactly tough competition for them based on the announced card.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> Try to stay on topic, sweetie. The post you were replying to made no excuses for Dynamite's poor quality the last several months or the subpar card tonight, outside of the main event. It was a statement of fact. The UFC is on, and they typically do well with AEW's key demo. It's not a big UFC card, but Dynamite tonight isn't exactly tough competition for them based on the announced card.


Its a fact? How when majority of UFC's viewers don't watch wrestling? UFC does way better in the rating then Dynamite so using UFC as a crutch is a weak excuse and if its not a big UFC card then how exactly will it "hurt" AEW?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> Its a fact? How when majority of UFC's viewers don't watch wrestling? UFC does way better in the rating then Dynamite so using UFC as a crutch is a weak excuse and if its not a big UFC card then how exactly will it "hurt" AEW?


What are you babbling about? There's a clear overlap between the two fanbases. You can see it when you go to /r/MMA, or other MMA forums, and even when you watch UFC events. When Colby Covington came out to Kurt Angle's theme song, most people in the audience knew immediately to start chanting "you suck."

" UFC does way better in the rating then Dynamite"

No shit, and given the overlap, that's why Dynamite should do poor numbers, given the card they've put forth.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> What are you babbling about? There's a clear overlap between the two fanbases. You can see it when you go to /r/MMA, or other MMA forums, and even when you watch UFC events. When Colby Covington came out to Kurt Angle's theme song, most people in the audience knew immediately to start chanting "you suck."
> 
> " UFC does way better in the rating then Dynamite"
> 
> No shit, and given the overlap, that's why Dynamite should do poor numbers, given the card they've put forth.


No theres only a small overlap hence why I said most UFC fans don't watch wrestling and has no interest in it. Chanting something and knowing who the person is doesn't mean they watch it. I know who Bryce Harper but I don't watch MLB and its the same with most MMA fans. Most of them don't care about wrestling. Also most people who watch MMA aren't on the internet so using reddit and MMA forum isn't a good look.

Theres only a little overlap of wrestling and MMA so no the rating shouldn't be poor because of UFC's card.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> No theres only a small overlap hence why I said most UFC fans don't watch wrestling and has no interest in it. Chanting something and knowing who the person is doesn't mean they watch it. I know who Bryce Harper but I don't watch MLB and its the same with most MMA fans. Most of them don't care about wrestling. *Also most people who watch MMA aren't on the internet so using reddit and MMA forum isn't a good look.*
> 
> Theres only a little overlap of wrestling and MMA so no the rating shouldn't be poor because of UFC's card.


Tonight is a card that will be watched mostly by the most hardcore fans - i.e. those internet fans who talk about MMA online 24/7 - many of whom also watch wrestling.

There's an overlap, and the UFC is far more popular, especially right now, as it's basically the only real sport on TV in North America.

I'm sorry this hurts your feelings. You clearly desperately wanted Dynamite to do better than it will tonight, but the UFC will have no problem taking fans away from AEW, especially when Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt are on TV.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> Tonight is a card that will be watched mostly by the most hardcore fans - i.e. those internet fans who talk about MMA online 24/7 - many of whom also watch wrestling.
> 
> There's an overlap, and the UFC is far more popular, especially right now, as it's basically the only real sport on TV in North America.
> 
> I'm sorry this hurts your feelings. You clearly desperately wanted Dynamite to do better than it will tonight, but the UFC will have no problem taking fans away from AEW, especially when Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt are on TV.


Wrong again theres little to no overlap of wrestling and MMA











Top 5 Reasons Why MMA Fans Hate Wrestling | Wrestling Amino


MMA is considered the fastest growing sport in the world. With UFC making millions and top fighters




aminoapps.com















Why do MMA fans love to hate on WWE?


It felt equal parts strange and obligatory, when the MMA world suffered a momentary conniption fit at the news that Chael Sonnen will have current WWE champion CM Punk escort him to the cage later this month during the UFC’s second live network television broadcast.




www.espn.com


















WWE: Why Do MMA Fans Love to Hate Professional Wrestling?


Back on Jan. 6, www.espn.com posted an article titled “Why do MMA fans love to hate on the WWE?” This article, written by Chad Dundas, was a very mind-boggling blog ...



syndication.bleacherreport.com






As I said MMA fans hate wrestling and don't watch it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> Wrong again theres little to no overlap of wrestling and MMA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 Reasons Why MMA Fans Hate Wrestling | Wrestling Amino
> 
> 
> MMA is considered the fastest growing sport in the world. With UFC making millions and top fighters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aminoapps.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do MMA fans love to hate on WWE?
> 
> 
> It felt equal parts strange and obligatory, when the MMA world suffered a momentary conniption fit at the news that Chael Sonnen will have current WWE champion CM Punk escort him to the cage later this month during the UFC’s second live network television broadcast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.espn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE: Why Do MMA Fans Love to Hate Professional Wrestling?
> 
> 
> Back on Jan. 6, www.espn.com posted an article titled “Why do MMA fans love to hate on the WWE?” This article, written by Chad Dundas, was a very mind-boggling blog ...
> 
> 
> 
> syndication.bleacherreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said MMA fans hate wrestling and don't watch it.


Those links give absolutely zero data. They make vague statements about "MMA fans hating wrestling online." Go to /r/MMA or any MMA forum, and you'll find an endless amount of wrestling fans. The UFC does very well with AEW's key demo - much better than AEW, in fact.

You're going to be very disappointed tomorrow.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

AEWMoxley said:


> Keep in kind that there's a UFC card tonight. There's a decent probability that it will eat into Dynamite's demo.


It really wont be a big impact on AEWs numbers,UFCs maincard doesn't start until right after Dynamite is over only the prelims will be on as the same time as AEW.

Like you said the ufc card is crap anyway so are the prelims people choosing to watch that over AEW are not wrestling fans anyway.


----------



## AEWMoxley

$Dolladrew$ said:


> It really wont be a big impact on AEWs numbers,UFCs maincard doesn't start until right after Dynamite is over only the prelims will be on as the same time as AEW.
> 
> Like you said the ufc card is crap anyway so are the prelims people choosing to watch that over AEW are not wrestling fans anyway.


It's not a star studded card, but look at what they're up against. It isn't tough competition for them. Who will be sticking around to watch The Bucks, Marko Stunt, and Sonny Kiss over the UFC card? AEW fans tune out when these guys are on TV even when there's less competition than there will be tonight.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> Those links give absolutely zero data. They make vague statements about "MMA fans hating wrestling online." Go to /r/MMA or any MMA forum, and you'll find an endless amount of wrestling fans. The UFC does very well with AEW's key demo - much better than AEW, in fact.
> 
> You're going to be very disappointed tomorrow.


Again just thats a minority but MOST MMA fans hate wrestling and also by your logic reddit and MMA forum has 0 data so you can't use that either by your own logic. UFC doing well in the rating has nothing to do with AEW.

Im not going to be "disappointed" tomorrow since I know Dynamite's rating and viewership will both be down.

Also those articles DO have data because other wise they wpuldn't be making articles stating that MMA fans hate wrestling. Its a fact most MMA fans hate wrestling and don't watch it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> Again just thats a minority but MOST MMA fans hate wrestling and also by your logic reddit and MMA forum has 0 data so you can't use that either by your own logic. UFC doing well in the rating has nothing to do with AEW.
> 
> Im not going to be "disappointed" tomorrow since I know Dynamite's rating and viewership will both be down.
> 
> Also those articles DO have data because other wise they wpuldn't be making articles stating that MMA fans hate wrestling. Its a fact most MMA fans hate wrestling and don't watch it.


They provided zero data. You're posting nonsense.

The overlap between MMA and pro wrestling has been present for a while.

Here's some actual data:

Just how badly is UFC affecting WWE's PPV business in the US?


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> They provided zero data. You're posting nonsense.
> 
> The overlap between MMA and pro wrestling has been present for a while.
> 
> Here's some actual data:
> 
> Just how badly is UFC affecting WWE's PPV business in the US?


They do have data other wise they wouldn't have written it so you're posting nonsense.

Theres lttle to no overlap of wrestling and MMA.

Heres you go 











Why do MMA fans love to hate on WWE?


It felt equal parts strange and obligatory, when the MMA world suffered a momentary conniption fit at the news that Chael Sonnen will have current WWE champion CM Punk escort him to the cage later this month during the UFC’s second live network television broadcast.




www.espn.com






Thats from ESPN who has data and covers sports so even they know that they don't overlap. 

Also one last thing the link you posted doesn't prove anything. Thats about PPV buys NOT audience overlap.


----------



## K4L318

holy shit dem fools sticking Cody's wife in a ring over their #1 contenders or champion Shida? 

ya dis chick a cancer


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ozell Gray said:


> They do have data other wise they wouldn't have written it so you're posting nonsense.
> 
> Theres lttle to no overlap of wrestling and MMA.
> 
> 
> Thats from ESPN who has data and covers sports so even they know that they don't overlap.


There was literally no data provided. I order you to learn what the word data means before you post about it.



> Also one last thing the link you posted doesn't prove anything. Thats about PPV buys NOT audience overlap.


Jesus Christ.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Ooh, it’s gonna be close. You’re on! I’m going with an estimated 1.3 million watching Wednesday night.
> 
> 
> 
> When they deviate from “rasslin’” is when they get hammered.
> 
> 
> 
> You’ve succumbed to the dark side. Muwahahaha. Honestly, it’s very nice over here.


Well shit. I didn’t realize they would be up against UFC. That will hurt. Lol


----------



## The Wood

Ozell, AEWMoxley is on the side of reason. I don’t think they were using the UFC as an excuse for AEW, but rather a tamper on the expectations.

Have they added a Brandi match? Between that, Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt, it’s like they are actively trying to get fucked up.


----------



## NathanMayberry

K4L318 said:


> holy shit dem fools sticking Cody's wife in a ring over their #1 contenders or champion Shida?
> 
> ya dis chick a cancer


This is why I have little faith in AEW turning things around. 

The egos of the EVPs will never allow it to happen. Their solution will always involve booking themselves or their friends in matches.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, heels is a really good concept and it is getting rave reviews online
> 
> i would not mind a female commentator at all / not sure that will bump up the f-demo / but worth a try
> 
> would be interesting to see what Renee could do in a place without some dude in her ear all the time


i believe it could help the F-demo because women will tune into AEW, hear a female commentator talk trash about the men in the ring and then relate to it. Lol. 

It could definitely work. Have the female commentator also be a heel towards the other women. Make it very bitchy and let cat fights happen. Women love that shit.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> i believe it could help the F-demo because women will tune into AEW, hear a female commentator talk trash about the men in the ring and then relate to it. Lol.
> 
> It could definitely work. Have the female commentator also be a heel towards the other women. Make it very bitchy and let cat fights happen. Women love that shit.


This is not a good idea, haha.


----------



## K4L318

NathanMayberry said:


> This is why I have little faith in AEW turning things around.
> 
> The egos of the EVPs will never allow it to happen. Their solution will always involve booking themselves or their friends in matches.


bruh who at gorilla watching her on monitor and be thinking she Madusa or something 😂


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEWMoxley said:


> There was literally no data provided. I order you to learn what the word data means before you post about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ.


Dude ESPN has more data than anyone else. They're not going to publish something with no facts in it. I showed you facts with multiple links. You need to show me what facts you have because you've provided 0 facts so far

My goodness.


----------



## Garty

NathanMayberry said:


> This is why I have little faith in AEW turning things around.
> 
> The egos of the EVPs will never allow it to happen. Their solution will always involve booking themselves or their friends in matches.


I always laugh at the posts complaining about the "egos" of those in charge of AEW. Cody said it perfectly yesterday (?) that it's not his, The Bucks or Omega's (EVP's) money, it's Tony Khan and the Khan families money. Tony is the boss, whether you agree with that fact or not. Who knows where they'd be without Tony Khan. Especially in hindsight with the CV-19 worldwide pandemic, affecting every facet of normalcy around the planet. If anything, they lucked out. So yeah, let's all pretend that the four of them are conspiring against Tony, for some unrealistic ulterior motive, potentially throwing away their careers in the process. 

If they're as egomaniacal as the haters claim them to be, then they sure pulled one over on NJPW, for about 3-5 years, some even longer. NJPW is and has been, the epitome of professional wrestling around the world for many, many years now. You don't call NJPW looking for work. NJPW calls you. And don't come back with, "well they left NJPW high and dry when Tony Khan threw his money at them" either. It was a collaborated effort, that was in the works behind the scenes, while they were in NJPW. That is why they didn't sign multi-year deals towards the end of their runs. Omega leaving was his choice, since NJPW gave him the option to do so. Contracts were up and like most of the talent, signed from a January 1st to December 31st calendar year, coinciding with Wrestle Kingdom, which sets the scene for the year ahead. If they didn't make the move then, it probably may not have happened. Omega wasn't even 100% committed until he put pen to paper the day of AEW's reveal.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

What i


Garty said:


> I always laugh at the posts complaining about the "egos" of those in charge of AEW. Cody said it perfectly yesterday (?) that it's not his, The Bucks or Omega's (EVP's) money, it's Tony Khan and the Khan families money. Tony is the boss, whether you agree with that fact or not. Who knows where they'd be without Tony Khan. Especially in hindsight with the CV-19 worldwide pandemic, affecting every facet of normalcy around the planet. If anything, they lucked out. So yeah, let's all pretend that the four of them are conspiring against Tony, for some unrealistic ulterior motive, potentially throwing away their careers in the process.
> 
> If they're as egomaniacal as the haters claim them to be, then they sure pulled one over on NJPW, for about 3-5 years, some even longer. NJPW is and has been, the epitome of professional wrestling around the world for many, many years now. You don't call NJPW looking for work. NJPW calls you. And don't come back with, "well they left NJPW high and dry when Tony Khan threw his money at them" either. It was a collaborated effort, that was in the works behind the scenes, while they were in NJPW. That is why they didn't sign multi-year deals towards the end of their runs. Omega leaving was his choice, since NJPW gave him the option to do so. Contracts were up and like most of the talent, signed from a January 1st to December 31st calendar year, coinciding with Wrestle Kingdom, which sets the scene for the year ahead. If they didn't make the move then, it probably may not have happened. Omega wasn't even 100% committed until he put pen to paper the day of AEW's reveal.


i always worry about people who see the worst in others

that headspace is filled with ‘anybody can do XYZ’ - ie.... ‘if I have these thoughts about me boss, surely Cody (for example) has these thoughts about his’

that is why you always have to worry about a girlfriend / boyfriend who is constantly worried you’re cheating - those thoughts are in their head

psychology 101


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> I always laugh at the posts complaining about the "egos" of those in charge of AEW. Cody said it perfectly yesterday (?) that it's not his, The Bucks or Omega's (EVP's) money, it's Tony Khan and the Khan families money. Tony is the boss, whether you agree with that fact or not. Who knows where they'd be without Tony Khan. Especially in hindsight with the CV-19 worldwide pandemic, affecting every facet of normalcy around the planet. If anything, they lucked out. So yeah, let's all pretend that the four of them are conspiring against Tony, for some unrealistic ulterior motive, potentially throwing away their careers in the process.
> 
> If they're as egomaniacal as the haters claim them to be, then they sure pulled one over on NJPW, for about 3-5 years, some even longer. NJPW is and has been, the epitome of professional wrestling around the world for many, many years now. You don't call NJPW looking for work. NJPW calls you. And don't come back with, "well they left NJPW high and dry when Tony Khan threw his money at them" either. It was a collaborated effort, that was in the works behind the scenes, while they were in NJPW. That is why they didn't sign multi-year deals towards the end of their runs. Omega leaving was his choice, since NJPW gave him the option to do so. Contracts were up and like most of the talent, signed from a January 1st to December 31st calendar year, coinciding with Wrestle Kingdom, which sets the scene for the year ahead. If they didn't make the move then, it probably may not have happened. Omega wasn't even 100% committed until he put pen to paper the day of AEW's reveal.


Wtf is this post? How did you get onto New Japan from where we were? What do their egos have to do with New Japan? 

And they did fuck over New Japan. That is why New Japan is mad at them. Meltzer says they didn't fuck over New Japan, but Omega & The Bucks say they were negotiating right up until the very end, which implies there was uncertainty about their future, so how could there be uncertainty over their future? New Japan being pissed at them and not using Kenny Omega for any matches or angles, even though he is free to and it would have been appropriate (Omega coming out to celebrate with Ibushi winning the G1, for example), is better evidence than Meltz saying "Nah,they're all good guys and didn't do anything bad to New Japan."

-Omega talked publicly about New Japan not being able to match the WWE or AEW's offers, which is not very respectful. 

-If Omega was so clear that he was signing with AEW from the start, why did Gedo, the best booker in professional wrestling, get stuck with him as IWGP Champion and need to allegedly change the finish to his main event? 

-Fumi Saito, a wrestling journalist who is plugged in everywhere and gets all the scoops, but doesn't report ahead of time out of respect to the promotions (so he continues to get all the scoops), was caught COMPLETELY off-side by this. He believed that Omega was going to be at the next ten Wrestle Kingdoms. I heard him talk about this on the Pacific Rim Podcast.

-There is history of Omega fucking over promoters like this (Adam Pearce and Jim Cornette in ROH). 

-Was it even legal for them to be setting up a US-based promotion while under New Japan contract?

-You even point out that Omega was fluffing all sides. 

The idea that New Japan new what these guys were going to do is evidently bullshit. According to some narratives, _Omega_ didn't even know what he was going to do. I call bullshit on that. As if he wasn't going to take the EVP gig and likely seven figure deal with the North American promotion with the money mark that was going to give him creative control and health insurance. He's probably going to retire on that dime. He also thought he was so damn important New Japan would be begging him to headline the Tokyo Dome every year, which hasn't happened. 

This money isn't throwing away their careers. It's made their careers. I guarantee you each of the EVPs could retire very comfortably after their current deals are paid out (which I imagine is unconditional given the Khans' resources). If they're signed for $1.5 million a piece for four years each, then that's $6 million. Give me $6 million to "throw away my career." They also probably have benefits built in, and it wouldn't surprise me that they have something factored in that if they go public, they get a certain percentage. Or at least some sort of pension attached, where they are signed for four years for in-ring, but after that they get a reduced rate to just stay affiliated with the company. Stop acting like they are so fucking gallant and respectful of this guy's money. Jericho got Tony Khan to prop up his vanity boat and got his buddy Luther a job.


----------



## Dizzie

I dont expect this week to do terrible ratings but the next few weeks you will see the knock on effect and it wouldn't be a surprise if by the end of the year the show will be doing around 300-350k numbers if they remain with the same people booking the show.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

If AEW don't win the overall this week they are really in trouble. NXT was just a regular episode wasn't it? AEW is a "TV Special".


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW don't win the overall this week they are really in trouble. NXT was just a regular episode wasn't it? AEW is a "TV Special".


Yeah NXT ran a regular episode yesterday.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I think after the last 3 shows, especially last night, that you continue to see them build this momentum heading into All Out and then, HOPEFULLY, we will be back to crowds after that again!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think after the last 3 shows, especially last night, that you continue to see them build this momentum heading into All Out and then, HOPEFULLY, we will be back to crowds after that again!!!


Agree with this. Realistically, AEW will continue at this 650-750k ~0.27 average till IMO the end of the pandemic era.

If it wasn't for opening too soon, I think you would've reached the end of the R curve by now


----------



## DOTL

Can someone explain to me why AEW losing in overall viewership for a few weeks is a big deal, but nxt losing for like 3 months straight wasn’t?


----------



## Chairshot620

There are so many more people they have that they need to use more:

Archer - Build him back up as a monster.
Brodie Lee - Same thing.
Cima - I get that he’s busy with OWE, but he’s barely been on Dynamite, and the guy is incredible. Deserves more than just Dark matches.
SCU is a bit underutilized.
MJF - Needs more matches. Still they are doing a good job with this guy at least.
Wardlow - Needs to be more than MJF’s bodyguard.
PAC - I get that he’s stranded, but still he can go in the ring and needs to be on tv more when he can.

Also I would separate Best Friends from OC, and only have OC face cruiser-weights. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Google trends exploded for Sonny Kiss last night, will be interesting to see if that translates into ratings. I'm not a big fan, but if it moves numbers, you have to push him.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I expect an easy win for AEW, if not, they're in serious trouble.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RelivingTheShadow said:


> View attachment 88904
> 
> 
> Google trends exploded for Sonny Kiss last night, will be interesting to see if that translates into ratings. I'm not a big fan, but if it moves numbers, you have to push him.


When off the wall characters get their first big match on TV, this is usually what happens. People Google them to find out more. Same thing happened with Marko Stunt, and then nobody gave a shit about him.

Google trends are all about, as the name suggests, _trends_. Not a one night outlier.

No, Sonny Kiss will never be a draw, and he's not getting a push.

Go take a look at the number of views for the YT highlight video of Cody/Sonny. It was pretty bad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uhmmmm.... 800k this week

0.29 demo


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DOTL said:


> Can someone explain to me why AEW losing in overall viewership for a few weeks is a big deal, but nxt losing for like 3 months straight wasn’t?


NXT is a developmental brand featuring no real major stars (Except Finn Balor) whilst AEW is a company featuring many major stars including Cody, Omega, Moxley, Cody and a heap of talented "future stars"

Therefore AEW with it's millions of dollars in talent and superior star power should kick the shit out of NXT every single week in the ratings but that isn't happening. Many people predicted that AEW wouldn't be that far off the WWE's main brands at this point but the fact they are LOSING and having to throw TV special after TV special on to try and compete? It is indeed kind of a big deal.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> View attachment 88904
> 
> 
> Google trends exploded for Sonny Kiss last night, will be interesting to see if that translates into ratings. I'm not a big fan, but if it moves numbers, you have to push him.


It won't move numbers.


----------



## Mister Sinister

optikk sucks said:


> Atleast you’re man enough to admit it and not hide under the guise of “comedy”.


I'm trying to bring into the sunlight exactly what the general audience is really seeing/saying. The mass audience responds to characters, they don't know a five star match from a rodeo clown show, but they know what they don't want to see or what they won't let their kids watch.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm looking forward to the quarter hours. You open with a freak show, you end with a title match with a muscle man that no one in the mainstream has ever seen, the women's tag match was some Diva level shit from 20 years ago, Excalibur called Nyla Rose a "he" and it was another week without the show's biggest audience-gainer in the last two months: Shida v Ford.

The women's division in AEW is dead. Half are injured, half are overseas, and the only ones left have all had programs with each other already. All they can do is insert Big Swole to make a three way with Shida and Ford.

Shida took a subtle swipe last night at the shit we have seen the last two weeks. She posted "never let our women's division stop!!"

They need to hire Tessa and release Rose.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Mister Sinister said:


> I'm looking forward to the quarter hours. You open with a freak show, you end with a title match with a muscle man that no one in the mainstream has ever seen, the women's tag match was some Diva level shit from 20 years ago, and it was another week without the show's biggest audience-gainer in the last two months: Shida v Ford.


AEW should win and win well based on the fact they had a big match on and promoted this as a TV special and put all their big stars on.

If they lose this week then oof.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I think they won't do as big as they could've just opening with a match that could literally make me people turn off the TV. NXT also did do two back to back title matches with two of there biggest stars in Kieth Lee and Io Shirai, both have solid pinfalls over main roster top stars.

NXT wins total viewers, AEW wins demo.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Will be an interesting one this week, AEW had better selling points than NXT, yet they also overloaded the show with shit.

Will be interesting to see how their numbers fluctuated during the Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Jericho/Cassidy, Vickie Guerrero and Brandi Rhodes moments.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW should win and win well based on the fact they had a big match on and promoted this as a TV special and put all their big stars on.
> 
> If they lose this week then oof.


They'll keep the beloved demo regardles but yea I imagine AEW takes the ratings this week as well. Be interesting to see how they react on twitter


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW should book Toby Keith to sing a song on Dynamite. Toby Keith is a ratings draw.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW should book Toby Keith to sing a song on Dynamite. Toby Keith is a ratings draw.


----------



## fabi1982

I predict 810 to 730 in favor to AEW. As chip has said, if they dont win this easy they are in serious trouble. Two title matches, Mox after couple of weeks, the big tag match. Dont see any way for NXT to get even close.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

It's wild to me how dead the other sections of this forum are compared to here, The Wood and the Chip guy have damn near 1k posts in the last month and the other sections collectively have like 300 posts as the top posters.

I remember in the Punk era where the forum would pop off for RAW every week, what a sad state of affairs.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It's wild to me how dead the other sections of this forum are compared to here, The Wood and the Chip guy have damn near 1k posts in the last month and the other sections collectively have like 300 posts as the top posters.
> 
> I remember in the Punk era where the forum would pop off for RAW every week, what a sad state of affairs.


AEW has the buzz - no matter how much people fight it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW has the buzz - no matter how much people fight it 🤷‍♂️


I think people are just more passionate about it, the people that hate it really hate it, and the people that like it really like it, not much middle ground. You see it on other boards, at least on the internet, the discussion that occurs the most is regarding AEW, good or bad.

I think people have just accepted WWE is dog shit and will never get better, while with AEW there is at least a glimmer of hope.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It's wild to me how dead the other sections of this forum are compared to here, The Wood and the Chip guy have damn near 1k posts in the last month and the other sections collectively have like 300 posts as the top posters.
> 
> I remember in the Punk era where the forum would pop off for RAW every week, what a sad state of affairs.


What you mean "And the Chip guy"? Like I'm some nobody over here


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> What you mean "And the Chip guy"? Like I'm some nobody over here


Lmao, I don't agree with a lot of your points, but you make a lot of valid arguments that I can at least see your standpoint. I really liked how you structured AEW if you booked it this past week, and would've much preferred that show.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Lmao, I don't agree with a lot of your points, but you make a lot of valid arguments that I can at least see your standpoint. I really liked how you structured AEW if you booked it this past week, and would've much preferred that show.


Thanks mate. I appreciate you. 

All kidding aside CattleClass is correct that AEW has buzz and is the new kid on the block hence the interest. I recently heard that Impact is the best wrestling show in the world so maybe a year from now we'll all be in the Impact section.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Can someone explain to me why AEW losing in overall viewership for a few weeks is a big deal, but nxt losing for like 3 months straight wasn’t?


AEW had the hardcore fans mobilised. NXT beating them means that the WWE’s third leg has won on merit. You are coming at the ratings as “all things being equal,” which it’s not. AEW had the advantage, and them getting handed is them squandering it.


----------



## NXT Only

DOTL said:


> Can someone explain to me why AEW losing in overall viewership for a few weeks is a big deal, but nxt losing for like 3 months straight wasn’t?


Detractors use the ratings to justify their opinions of the show. AEW/NXT are pretty much doing the same numbers in terms of total live viewers but only AEW is shit on. Idk about NXT because I dont watch it anymore outside of checking on Undisputed Era.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Detractors use the ratings to justify their opinions of the show. AEW/NXT are pretty much doing the same numbers in terms of total live viewers *but only AEW is shit on. Idk about NXT* because I dont watch it anymore outside of checking on Undisputed Era.


AEW super fans.


----------



## bdon

DOTL said:


> Can someone explain to me why AEW losing in overall viewership for a few weeks is a big deal, but nxt losing for like 3 months straight wasn’t?


Because NXT’s show - the core of it, the culture - has been consistent. AEW’s been all over the map from serious stuff, to crazy comedy, and doesn’t realize having a base story to it has lead to this massive drop in ratings.



El Hammerstone said:


> I expect an easy win for AEW, if not, they're in serious trouble.


It goes back to what I mentioned a week or so ago about how difficult it is to win back the viewers once they check out. 


RelivingTheShadow said:


> Lmao, I don't agree with a lot of your points, but you make a lot of valid arguments that I can at least see your standpoint. I really liked how you structured AEW if you booked it this past week, and would've much preferred that show.


He’s done this multiple times, both offering what would have been a better show, always structured around a more serious product. The things that have been the biggest hits for AEW have all been when they provided a serious angle: The Rhodes’ brother matchup, Kenny vs Moxley, MJF whipping Cody, Bucks vs Hangman with Kenny as the object of attraction, Jungle Boy vs MJF, etc. 

Serious wrestling works.


----------



## NXT Only

I'm actually looking forward to The Wood blasting Khan and AEW if NXT wins total viewers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT Only said:


> I'm actually looking forward to The Wood blasting Khan and AEW if NXT wins total viewers.


The excuses have already been posted, in preparation of an AEW win occurring.

if AEW lose then it’ll be “I TOLD YOU!!!!”

If AEW win it’ll be “it’s a special”


----------



## bdon

NXT Only said:


> I'm actually looking forward to The Wood blasting Khan and AEW if NXT wins total viewers.


It would be deserved. You can’t keep putting Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss, Orange Cassidy in super meaningful positions, and expect to make a ton of money. I was blasted over criticizing Sonny Kiss for suggesting he doesn’t take the shit seriously and hasn’t evolved into someone the fans believe is genuinely trying to win.

That they went with THAT match as the opening act is an indictment to how little they understand about television.


----------



## NXT Only

bdon said:


> It would be deserved. You can’t keep putting Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss, Orange Cassidy in super meaningful positions, and expect to make a ton of money. I was blasted over criticizing Sonny Kiss for suggesting he doesn’t take the shit seriously and hasn’t evolved into someone the fans believe is genuinely trying to win.
> 
> That they went with THAT match as the opening act is an indictment to how little they understand about television.


I think Orange Cassidy has proven his worth and value. He shouldn't be in the main event scene but he's over among fans mostly. 

Stunt and Kiss I get it but should AEW not give them chances? Or if they do get chances when should they come?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> The excuses have already been posted, in preparation of an AEW win occurring.
> 
> if AEW lose then it’ll be “I TOLD YOU!!!!”
> 
> If AEW win it’ll be “it’s a special”


NXT's card is pretty comparable to AEW, fallout of a double champ crowned, that champion defending, Io Shirai defending the title in a promoted match and Priest/Grimes was built up for a bit. The disparity between the cards wasn't that big, if at all.


----------



## Chan Hung

I have NOT seen NXT's most recent show, and although i feel NXT has been better last couple weeks....as for this week, AEW may win; due to Moxley vs Cage (which helps) gives them the edge. Lets see if i am wrong.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW probably lost a ton in that first and second QH but I suspect they dominated the final QH. If they didn't, get the belt on MJF at All Out and run with it. No reason they can't be developing MJF & Hangman as main eventers already.


----------



## Swan-San

Aew will win, you can't lose with a championship match against a normal nxt show, even with starting with sunny shit


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Swan-San said:


> Aew will win, you can't lose with a championship match against a normal nxt show, even with starting with sunny shit


NXT had two championship matches tho, one of them was a double title match


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

when NXT wins, it'll be "I TOLD YOU SO!!! SONNY KISS COMEDY JOBBER, MARKO STUNT, WHAT ARE AEW DOING" just wait on it.

you can see the excuse preparation above. 

It's getting quite tiresome. Nobody willing to say "i was proven wrong"


----------



## bdon

Fuck off


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

CODY RHHHODES BOOKED THAT TOWEL FINISH, THE MAN HAS NO FUCKING IDEA.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> CODY RHHHODES BOOKED THAT TOWEL FINISH, THE MAN HAS NO FUCKING IDEA.


lol stahppp 🤣


----------



## K4L318

ya cats making me pee 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol

i LoSt aLl ReSpEcT 😭😭😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283814634399698952


----------



## Bosnian21

I’ll take a guess:

AEW - 710k, 0.29
NXT - 750k, 0.19


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> i LoSt aLl ReSpEcT 😭😭😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283814634399698952


Well, well, well, what do we have here.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

im just here for the shits and giggles


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> im just here for the shits and giggles


lol - me too

Thursday nights are almost as much fun as Wed


----------



## IamMark

#AEW #AEWonTNT 788k-0.29 5th
#NXT #WWENXT 631k-0.14 49th


----------



## fabi1982

AEW: 788
NXT: 631


----------



## NXT Only

AEW smoked NXT

788K to 631K


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite 788,000 viewers with 0.29 rating

NXT 631,000 with 0.14 rating


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> AEW: 788
> NXT: 631


WORLD TITLE MATCH NO OTHER REASON


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT WAS A NORMAL SHOW. THERE WASN'T NOTHING GOING ON.

AEW HAD SPECIAL.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Oh my god, NXT got humiliated, a fucking .14 in the demo????


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> The excuses have already been posted, in preparation of an AEW win occurring.
> 
> if AEW lose then it’ll be “I TOLD YOU!!!!”
> 
> If AEW win it’ll be “it’s a special”


But...it was a special

AEW really went all out. Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega, The Bucks, FTR/Lucha Bros which I found out today (I haven't slept yet so it's still today until I do) is a dream match for a lot of you guys. I don't know what NXT did but that's hard to compete with on a star power level.

If AEW lose I don't think you'll see anyone saying "I told you so" I think we'll all be pretty shocked. I'm fully expecting an AEW win.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt effect.

They need to be in next weeks main event.


----------



## Prosper

Special or not, that's a 157,000 viewer difference. Damn. NXT had 2 strong title matches.

Obviously Sasha Banks is the draw here and without her, there's no winning anything for NXT.

The All Out build should hopefully get them back to 900K.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IamMark said:


> #AEW #AEWonTNT 788k-0.29 5th
> #NXT #WWENXT 631k-0.14 49th
> 
> View attachment 88908
> 
> View attachment 88909


look at that - i was basically on the money again

0.29 and 800 i said

overall key demo up = good (but not enough)
male demo up = very good 0.4 
female demo keeps being shit - thought Mox would help there

last night of MTV Challenge too - hopefully we can snake some of that demo next week


----------



## bdon

IamMark said:


> #AEW #AEWonTNT 788k-0.29 5th
> #NXT #WWENXT 631k-0.14 49th
> 
> View attachment 88908
> 
> View attachment 88909


Awesome. Glad they won, but the Quarters are going to be interesting.


----------



## RapShepard

Big drop off for NXT surely that has to be their lowest overall viewership or close to it.


optikk sucks said:


> WORLD TITLE MATCH NO OTHER REASON


Nah AEW just gave more reasons to watch even outside the title match. I'm not a fan of announcing the card beforehand due to less spontaneity. But NXT should rip that from AEW. That way you know exactly what you're getting on both shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh my god, NXT got humiliated, a fucking .14 in the demo????


yeah - 0.14 is not great unfortunately


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LISTEN

NXT WAS JUST A NORMAL SHOW. CLEARLY NO COUNTER BOOKING. 


BRIAN CAGE VS MOXLEY WORLD TITLE MATCH


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Congratulations to the AEW fans (Except Optikk who is so fucking arrogant about all of this that it's gross). AEW really went all out and deserved to win this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Special or not, that's a 157K viewer difference. Damn. NXT had 2 strong title matches.
> 
> Obviously Sasha Banks is the draw here and without her, there's no winning anything for NXT.


from an outsider, who cares nothing about WWE anymore - even I can say Sasha is a legit draw


----------



## bdon

Goddamn. I was ready for Wednesday night’s combined ratings to shit on Raw and Vince McMahon. Fucking old, creepy prick.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Poor Keith Lee. Woof.


----------



## RapShepard

If I'm Mox I'm taking not of this and Everytime I crush in the ratings and taking them up top when it comes time for negotiating.


----------



## Erik.

It went up?

Shock.

It'll be down next week.

Rinse. Repeat.


----------



## bdon

Showstopper said:


> Poor Keith Lee. Woof.


Yeah. Not a good look.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Congratulations to the AEW fans (Except Optikk who is so fucking arrogant about all of this that it's gross). AEW really went all out and deserved to win this week.


dude, give him a break

after 2 weeks of having us eat shit, sometimes a little arrogance is deserved, know what i mean?

his team just won


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> from an outsider, who cares nothing about WWE anymore - even I can say Sasha is a legit draw


did that gameshow end last week?

Seems like AEW has gone back up now that the top rated gameshow has ended. UFC didn't even affect it.


----------



## NXT Only

bdon said:


> Goddamn. I was ready for Wednesday night’s combined ratings to shit on Raw and Vince McMahon. Fucking old, creepy prick.


Raw probably impacted the NXT ratings when you think about it.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Dang, that's a great W.

Hopefully AEW's shows will get better... cut the silliness.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> did that gameshow end last week?
> 
> Seems like AEW has gone back up now that the top rated gameshow has ended. UFC didn't even affect it.


it was the grand finale last night

meaning there is 0.59 in the demo to snake next week 

might push Dynamite into 0.3‘s again? Where is where they should be really


----------



## RapShepard

Showstopper said:


> Poor Keith Lee. Woof.


Not good out the gate, but if the breakdown shows his segment drew or stayed steady he'll look better.


----------



## One Shed

Great win. When you have a main event that draws, you win. Imagine that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

wait....AEW is NUMBER 5? isn't that the highest it's ever been on the league table (at least outside of the initial month or so)? and isn't that the highest number of males 18-49? holy fuck. what actually happened.


----------



## RapShepard

Hopefully they hit the ground running next week in the build to All Out 2. They just took back momentum. No need to give it back if they can help it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, give him a break
> 
> after 2 weeks of having us eat shit, sometimes a little arrogance is deserved, know what i mean?
> 
> his team just won


Nah bro, Optikk is the worst. Just combative and so insecure about something that we're all meant to find fun or at least compelling discussion. He does it every week as well.

Ratings wise it's a nice big win for AEW which is what they no doubt wanted. Lets hope they can maintain it going into next week. From what I recall the card isn't too bad next week either.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> wait....AEW is NUMBER 5? isn't that the highest it's ever been on the league table (at least outside of the initial month or so)? and isn't that the highest number of males 18-49? holy fuck. what actually happened.


I could've sworn they were like 2 on the debut and like 4 another time


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oooof - Jericho is gonna be unbearable


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Great win. When you have a main event that draws, you win. Imagine that.





optikk sucks said:


>


----------



## EmbassyForever

btw, Vickie used to do great numbers during her 2008-2012 run, right?

I remember as this was pretty much the reason why they kept her on TV for so long.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah bro, Optikk is the worst. Just combative and so insecure about something that we're all meant to find fun or at least compelling discussion. He does it every week as well.
> 
> Ratings wise it's a nice big win for AEW which is what they no doubt wanted. Lets hope they can maintain it going into next week. From what I recall the card isn't too bad next week either.


he’s really not

Optikk is legit - he’s having fun

i promise you - as a UK dude who has no power or control in the ratings - we’re all just having fun


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

EmbassyForever said:


> btw, Vickie used to do great numbers during her 2008-2012 run, right?
> 
> I remember as this was pretty much the reason why they kept her on TV for so long.


yeah, she was a heat magnet and really drew in people wanting to beat Edge

but she also drove some people like Optikk and others away

me? I’m a fan


----------



## K4L318

Good win. And she debut next week so no bathroom break Brandi shit match


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oooof - Jericho is gonna be unbearable


The Demogod strikes again.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> from an outsider, who cares nothing about WWE anymore - even I can say Sasha is a legit draw


Sasha Banks is definitely the number mover here.



Showstopper said:


> Poor Keith Lee. Woof.


I'm actually a huge Kieth Lee fan, kind of surprised at it being this low. Not a good loo at all. I worry that Vince is gonna take the title off of him now that he's doing more in NXT. That's what sucks about all this.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Solid rating for sure. Back where they need to build from. I think its probably just Mox return and the title match.

Mistake NXT made was not advertising any of their matches as big deals. But all things equal AEW should always beat NXT in both demos and viewership.

But it's fun to watch the meltdown and excuses when it doesn't does go that way.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Moxley is the only thing preventing a significant chunk of WWE fans from watching NXT over Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> wait....AEW is NUMBER 5? isn't that the highest it's ever been on the league table (at least outside of the initial month or so)? and isn't that the highest number of males 18-49? holy fuck. what actually happened.


yah, that males number is massive

almost first month levels actually


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oooof - Jericho is gonna be unbearable


I love it.


----------



## Chan Hung

To be honest, the main event was what kept me tuning in for most of the show. I turned off during Sonny Kiss vs Cody. Im curious what the breakdown is for Kiss vs Cody.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

K4L318 said:


> Good win. And she debut next week so no bathroom break Brandi shit match
> 
> View attachment 88910


dude...your thirst - control it


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Congratulations to the AEW fans (Except Optikk who is so fucking arrogant about all of this that it's gross). AEW really went all out and deserved to win this week.


Yeah like you guys weren't ripping the AEW fans apart the 2 weeks NXT won, come on man it works both ways


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Really these ratings kind of prove the AEW haters right just throwing that out there. We are always the guys in favour of building shit up, blowing it off properly with hype, eliminating the silly shit (Last few weeks has had limited silly stuff except for Jericho). The one time in recent memory that AEW has done just that they give NXT an ass kicking.

Tony, call me, I will write Dynamite for you. You + Me = $$$


----------



## Dark Emperor

prosperwithdeen said:


> Sasha Banks is definitely the number mover here.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a huge Kieth Lee fan, kind of surprised at it being this low. Not a good loo at all. I worry that Vince is gonna take the title off of him now that he's doing more in NXT. That's what sucks about all this.


She wasn't there last week when NXT beat AEW in viewership.

She was also apart of the main event for the Lowest Raw viewership rating of the year this past monday. Not blaming her, but she's no draw.

Nobody is a consistent draw except a few spikes here and there in wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> look at that - i was basically on the money again
> 
> 0.29 and 800 i said
> 
> overall key demo up = good (but not enough)
> male demo up = very good 0.4
> *female demo keeps being shit - thought Mox would help there*
> 
> last night of MTV Challenge too - hopefully we can snake some of that demo next week


When you see which shows have the best female demos, you understand that it's going to be hard for wrestling grow in those demo. Even more now after the "rapist everywhere in wrestling"


----------



## bdon

Sooo, how is Adam Cole feeling this week?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Solid rating for sure. Back where they need to build from. I think its probably just Mox return and the title match.
> 
> Mistake NXT made was not advertising any of their matches as big deals. But all things equal AEW should always beat NXT in both demos and viewership.
> 
> But it's fun to watch the meltdown and excuses when it doesn't does go that way.


when you really think about it though, if i was WWE - i would never allow them to beat me

i would crush them with all my top stars every week

there‘s actually no reason for AEW to win with WWE’s money

i’m actually baffled by the whole thing


----------



## One Shed

You are not really making sense here. When the product presents a serious main event we WANT it to win and show everyone what actually draws. Not goofiness.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> When you see which shows have the best female demos, you understand that it's going to be hard for wrestling grow in those demo. Even more now after the "rapist everywhere in wrestling"


very true

but one hot angle can do wonders

i’m hoping they stop teasing the 4HM or Kenny shit and pull the trigger

but, they don’t hotshot - they obvs have a plan

but a great / hot angle will pull the viewers


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I could've sworn they were like 2 on the debut and like 4 another time


Yes they already been on the podium


----------



## TD Stinger

Fairly sizeable win for AEW this week. Good to have the ic champ back and finally have his title match.

in terms of quality I didn’t think either show wad stellar, and if I had to pick one I’d probably pick NXT. But they were probably bound to fall back down a bit after having that success.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> Moxley is the only thing preventing a significant chunk of WWE fans from watching NXT over Dynamite.


Probably why he is their highest paid wrestler....


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> very true
> 
> but one hot angle can do wonders
> 
> i’m hoping they stop teasing the 4HM or Kenny shit and pull the trigger
> 
> but, they don’t hotshot - they obvs have a plan
> 
> but a great / hot angle will pull the viewers


The best chance to see an increase in the women demo is if their boyfriends or husbands make them watch the show.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Yes they already been on the podium


I thought so


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> You are not really making sense here. When the product presents a serious main event we WANT it to win and show everyone what actually draws. Not goofiness.


it's an excuse.

this was originally the fyter fest main event, but people casually forgot that. they had to rely on jericho vs OC. they had to. they had nothing else. and we had all sorts of crap over the past week or so.

you can see im exaggerating my response for that reason.


----------



## Chan Hung

IF NXT though brings in some talent like Sasha/Bayley again or something of that nature, AEW may be in trouble. But yeah, they had a main event title match which had a returning Moxley who had been gone a while. So they should have won and they did.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Really these ratings kind of prove the AEW haters right just throwing that out there. We are always the guys in favour of building shit up, blowing it off properly with hype, eliminating the silly shit (Last few weeks has had limited silly stuff except for Jericho). The one time in recent memory that AEW has done just that they give NXT an ass kicking.
> 
> Tony, call me, I will write Dynamite for you. You + Me = $$$


actually it kinda doesn’t

the haters say build stuff / and the stans say ‘they are, its just not stuff you like’ and the circle goes around

if i had the energy i would type out an essay about how everything last night was foreshadowed over the last weeks if not months and carefully planned

but really, who has the energy?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Whoanma said:


> The Demogod strikes again.


nWo-Austin 3:16-DemoGod


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> Solid rating for sure. Back where they need to build from. I think its probably just Mox return and the title match.
> 
> Mistake NXT made was not advertising any of their matches as big deals. But all things equal AEW should always beat NXT in both demos and viewership.
> 
> But it's fun to watch the meltdown and excuses when it doesn't does go that way.





optikk sucks said:


>


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Really these ratings kind of prove the AEW haters right just throwing that out there. We are always the guys in favour of building shit up, blowing it off properly with hype, eliminating the silly shit (Last few weeks has had limited silly stuff except for Jericho). The one time in recent memory that AEW has done just that they give NXT an ass kicking.
> 
> Tony, call me, I will write Dynamite for you. You + Me = $$$


The card got shit on, the show got shit on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As soon as people sit back and realise that WWE is WCW and AEW is ECW / WWF (in spirit / don’t twist my words) - the better life will be


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Really these ratings kind of prove the AEW haters right just throwing that out there. We are always the guys in favour of building shit up, blowing it off properly with hype, eliminating the silly shit (Last few weeks has had limited silly stuff except for Jericho). The one time in recent memory that AEW has done just that they give NXT an ass kicking.
> 
> Tony, call me, I will write Dynamite for you. You + Me = $$$


Says the guy who gave the show a 3/10 last night.



Dark Emperor said:


> She wasn't there last week when NXT beat AEW in viewership.
> 
> She was also apart of the main event for the Lowest Raw viewership rating of the year this past monday. Not blaming her, but she's no draw.
> 
> Nobody is a consistent draw except a few spikes here and there in wrestling.


When I say draw, I mean within the NXT parameters, which is around a million for live cable. Her match with Shotzi/Tegan and her match with Io Shirai both drew big numbers. Last week, they had the title unification match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NXT Only said:


> The card got shit on, the show got shit on.


very true

there was a lot of ‘this card is shit’ posts


----------



## K4L318

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude...your thirst - control it


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> very true
> 
> there was a lot of ‘this card is shit’ posts


BUT THE MAIN EVENT!!!!!

THE MAIN EVENT!!!!

MOXLEY CAGE WORLD TITLE!!!!


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> it's an excuse.
> 
> this was originally the fyter fest main event, but people casually forgot that. they had to rely on jericho vs OC. they had to. they had nothing else. and we had all sorts of crap over the past week or so.
> 
> you can see im exaggerating my response for that reason.


They HAD to? Now who is making excuses? When you put a goof in the main event, you lose. When you treat your main event seriously, you win.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

WORLD CHAMPION VS FTW CHAMPION!!!!

DRAW!!!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> They HAD to? Now who is making excuses? When you put a goof in the main event, you lose. When you treat your main event seriously, you win.


lmao ok mate.

last minute decision making put Jericho vs OC in that spot. Otherwise what else, tell me


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This thread is bad at the best of times

but boy twitter is a horrorshow


----------



## Swan-San

I am very salty at the moment even though I expected a win, hoping it was down mainly to Mox, I don't want to see Kiss or stunt bruh


----------



## Whoanma

optikk sucks said:


> BUT THE MAIN EVENT!!!!!
> 
> THE MAIN EVENT!!!!
> 
> MOXLEY CAGE WORLD TITLE!!!!


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> when you really think about it though, if i was WWE - i would never allow them to beat me
> 
> i would crush them with all my top stars every week
> 
> there‘s actually no reason for AEW to win with WWE’s money
> 
> i’m actually baffled by the whole thing


They could beat them pretty easily if they put more main roster popular acts showing up regularly, especially with a full on invasion angle.

Exciting for fans however the main roster guys will get even more overexposed meaning those shows rating are likely to fall even more. No point getting 900k-1m and beating AEW regularly if the main shows that make you all those sweet $'s also drop to those numbers and become less valuable in long term.


----------



## Prosper

The show was really good last night, definitely an 8/10. But they can do better. I fully expect an epic build up in the next 7 weeks to get this shit back up to 900K.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> actually it kinda doesn’t
> 
> the haters say build stuff / and the stans say ‘they are, its just not stuff you like’ and the circle goes around
> 
> if i had the energy i would type out an essay about how everything last night was foreshadowed over the last weeks if not months and carefully planned
> 
> but really, who has the energy?


The quarter hour numbers will reflect that they don’t need to keep putting Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt on TV. Thankfully they didn’t try to run Cassidy as a goddamn main eventer again.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Whoanma said:


>


the excuses came out as predicted and it's hilarious.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Great... now #demogod is everywhere

Jericho might actually be a genius - he’s making bank on this / but demogod doesn’t help AEWs ratings at all - its actually stupid


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> View attachment 88904
> 
> 
> Google trends exploded for Sonny Kiss last night, will be interesting to see if that translates into ratings. I'm not a big fan, but if it moves numbers, you have to push him.


SONNY KISS = RATINGS


----------



## Whoanma

optikk sucks said:


> the excuses came out as predicted and it's hilarious.


All of you know I'm here just for the lulz.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

optikk sucks said:


> the excuses came out as predicted and it's hilarious.


You get a like just for the Agents of Shield gif alone. Fantastic season so far.


----------



## Prosper

Swan-San said:


> I am very salty at the moment even though I expected a win, hoping it was down mainly to Mox, I don't want to see Kiss or stunt bruh


Kiss' segment will lose viewers, but with Marko, he had 5 other great guys in there with him so we won't know what effect he had


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> The quarter hour numbers will reflect that they don’t need to keep putting Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt on TV. Thankfully they didn’t try to run Cassidy as a goddamn main eventer again.


fucking ell you lads are obsessed with Kiss and Stunt and OC

it is weird I tell you

here is your shock for the evening - you could’ve replaced all of those last night with other AEW stars and it would have made zero difference in the numbers

pro or con

the only thing that can change their numbers is pulling some triggers on their best stories


----------



## rexmundi

AEW won M 18-49 (.40 to .14) and M 12-34 (.20 to .02) That .02 is atrocious. Since the beginning of June, AEW has won in the demo by .09, .08, .07,.03,.07. .08, and .15. Keep that in mind when some quote recent demos. Props to AEW for more than doubling NXT in the 18-49 demo. Current tally 32-8-1 in total viewers and 40-1 in the demo. All praise The Demo God. LOL


----------



## Joe Gill

I remember back in the days of the real ratings wars the viewers would sometimes fluctuate in the millions between wwe and wcw.... now they fluctuate by 50-100 k and wrestling geeks overanalyze these hiccups as some sort of shifts in the industry... its quite amusing.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Its funny how AEW spent the week talking about how boomers don't matter, yet they're the reason why AEW is up and NXT is down this week in viewers.

The Wednesday pool which was over 2 million at one point is getting smaller and smaller and is now around what AEW debuted at. As COVID continues, more and more people are gonna be cutting the cord.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Kiss' segment will lose viewers, but with Marko, he had 5 other great guys in there with him so we won't know what effect he had


Kiss segment won’t lose viewers

it literally can’t

it opened and was around 15min


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Kiss' segment will lose viewers, but with Marko, he had 5 other great guys in there with him so we won't know what effect he had


His segment was the first one so hard to lose viewers.


----------



## llj

Chan Hung said:


> IF NXT though brings in some talent like Sasha/Bayley again or something of that nature, AEW may be in trouble. But yeah, they had a main event title match which had a returning Moxley who had been gone a while. So they should have won and they did.


Even with Sasha/Bayley NXT pretty much only got them on par with AEW in total viewers, and still lost the demo. This week they got stomped in all areas, I think there's been enough sample size to show an AEW average show can compete with NXT's best punch

Moxley I think is also a bigger draw than most main roster WWE stars appearing on NXT. There's been a pattern of Moxley consistently making a big difference when he appears.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fucking ell you lads are obsessed with Kiss and Stunt and OC
> 
> it is weird I tell you
> 
> here is your shock for the evening - you could’ve replaced all of those last night with other AEW stars and it would have made zero difference in the numbers
> 
> pro or con
> 
> the only thing that can change their numbers is pulling some triggers on their best stories


I can't stand Stunt, I just can't. That's my only issue with AEW. Not a big issue, though, as long as he's routinely squashed.


----------



## Not Lying

Looking forward to see the quarter breakings. I give credit to Moxley being back in a world title match, the fans missed him + world title match had to draw. NXT stood no chance no matter what.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283863522586300416


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

get used to this guys. the Wednesday Night Warrior. The Flamboyant Fighter. He's here to stay.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> I can't stand Stunt, I just can't. That's my only issue with AEW. Not a big issue, though, as long as he's routinedly squashed.


he’s there to be squashed, do some high spots and eat the pin

he keeps the pin away from Lucha and JB which I am 100% for


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Its funny how AEW spent the week talking about how boomers don't matter, yet they're the reason why AEW is up and NXT is down this week in viewers.


uh

male 18-49 last week 0.34
this week 0.4


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he’s there to be squashed, do some high spots and eat the pin
> 
> he keeps the pin away from Lucha and JB which I am 100% for


He gets way too much offense on guys he shouldn't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> get used to this guys. the Wednesday Night Warrior. The Flamboyant Fighter. He's here to stay.


lol - you Really are going ‘all out’ this week 

then again, fine with me - i actually like Sonny

he is still very green, but he has potential


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> His segment was the first one so hard to lose viewers.


You can still lose viewers throughout the segment, but we just don't have minute-by-minute data, only quarter-by-quarter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> He gets way too much offense on guys he shouldn't.


nah, it’s fine

if they squashed him min 1 the match is over

if they didn’t build him a little - in character or ability - Kenny going after him last night would mean nothing

it was a ‘you little shit, you’re beneath me’ beating if crazy awesomeness

if it was like.... Kip, or Naka it would mean zero


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nah, it’s fine
> 
> if they squashed him min 1 the match is over
> 
> if they didn’t build him a little - in character or ability - Kenny going after him last night would mean nothing
> 
> it was a ‘you little shit, you’re beneath me’ beating if crazy awesomeness
> 
> if it was like.... Kip, or Naka it would mean zero


I *LOVED* the beating, that saved it for me.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - you Really are going ‘all out’ this week
> 
> then again, fine with me - i actually like Sonny
> 
> he is still very green, but he has potential


people are already assuming/hoping that kiss has lost viewers.

yet the post by @RelivingTheShadow showed this massive peak of google searches.

View attachment 88904


----------



## Prosper

Whoanma said:


> I *LOVED* the beating, that saved it for me.


The Cleaner is coming!


----------



## Peerless

It's funny how Jericho's new gimmick will have people thinking he's the difference maker when it's really Mox.

Though I'm not surprised, when you look at what's been drawing for AEW it's always been action. Matches and promos in the ring with their biggest stars. I like their vignettes but those always tank their viewers along with them showcasing filler stuff. This week we only had the Brandi tag everything else involved their bigger stars.


----------



## rbl85

Now it's nice and all but it's not the time at all to scream victory.

In the covid era it's easy to lose 100k in a week even if the show is good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> I *LOVED* the beating, that saved it for me.


it was good, right?

when Marko gets beat up, its like someone is beating someone so obviously physically inferior - that it translates into real heat IMO


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> The Cleaner is coming!


do you think a stream went down somewhere, btw? to cause this spike?



and who thinks AEW did enough to keep these viewers watching next week? i don't think so.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Now it's nice and all but it's not the time at all to scream victory.
> 
> In the covid era it's easy to lose 100k in a week even if the show is good.


din’t worry mate - most of us are realistic

next week can be 650 again

as long as the demo stays above 0.25 - we’re golden

lower is a worry


----------



## rbl85

Peerless said:


> It's funny how Jericho's new gimmick will have people thinking he's the difference maker when it's really Mox.
> 
> Though I'm not surprised, when you look at what's been drawing for AEW it's always been action. Matches and promos in the ring with their biggest stars. I like their vignettes but those always tank their viewers along with them showcasing filler stuff. This week we only had the Brandi tag everything else involved their bigger stars.


Jericho keep calling himself "le Champion" when he's not anymore.


----------



## Pippen94

Those demos for nxt so bad - must be close to cancelation level


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was good, right?
> 
> when Marko gets beat up, its like someone is beating someone so obviously physically inferior - that it translates into real heat IMO


For me it works because I just can't stand him, lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

when the rating inevitably drops next week "NO MOXLEY NO WORLD CHAMPION, MARKO STUNT, ORANGE CASSIDY, SONNY KISS"

"AEW IS A MESS. AEW ARE IN TROUBLE"

yawn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> do you think a stream went down somewhere, btw? to cause this spike?
> 
> 
> 
> and who thinks AEW did enough to keep these viewers watching next week? i don't think so.


eeehhh... they didn’t do enough

Mox program is kinda, sorta over with Cage - as its Cage v Darby now

Cody has the shock opponent next week - but we all know it is Warhorse or Kingston

BB v YB will be good, but the fanbase is already there for it

i’m begging them to pull the trigger on kenny or hangman

edit> if any of this goes to Mox v Archer or Mox v MJF, we’re on like donkey kong


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> do you think a stream went down somewhere, btw? to cause this spike?
> 
> and who thinks AEW did enough to keep these viewers watching next week? i don't think so.


Nah there are so many streams online that it won't matter if even 5 of the bigger ones crashed or went down lol, you can find another one within seconds because a lot of the sites list different stream links all on the same home page

And I would say no, they didn't do enough to tempt the viewer for next week (except for Ivelisse fans), but I think all of the heel turn teases and the strong matches we saw could entice the live cable people to come back for more


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> For me it works because I just can't stand him, lol.


well, for some there’s that too


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> and who thinks AEW did enough to keep these viewers watching next week? i don't think so.


Based on what was announced, I highly doubt it.

Also, the ending didn't help. They set up Allin/Cage, which will likely not draw good numbers going forward, instead of setting up Moxley's All Out feud. That was a strange decision.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Those demos for nxt so bad - must be close to cancelation level


if you think Suits in that spot did 0.32 to 0.35 constant - might be a worry

but i’m sure wwe sweetens the deal with them somehow


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> get used to this guys. the Wednesday Night Warrior. The Flamboyant Fighter. He's here to stay.


You’re a troll


----------



## NathanMayberry

People tune in when you give them a reaosn to watch. 


Jericho vs Orange Cassidy isn't a reason to watch. Moxley vs Cage for the title is.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> i LoSt aLl ReSpEcT 😭😭😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283814634399698952


The WWF was absolutely killing it at the time. It wasn’t unusual for it to get a 6.0 rating. WCW was spiralling. If you cannot tell the difference there, then there is NO helping you.

Embarrassing rating for NXT this week. Total viewership down on Wednesday night, which I called with bdon (I’ll have my cake now, donster ), which is a bad sign for Wednesday nights. Fewer people in that hardcore group of fans watching. I don’t know why people assume that AEW is going to get up to 1 million viewers. The pool to share is getting smaller and smaller. 

Also, optikk is really embarrassing. It’s very clear how much those weeks where AEW lost the viewership bruised him given that meltdown. It’s going to be pretty rich when AEW start losing again. I imagine Chris Jericho and Tony Khan are doing the same thing.


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> People tune in when you give them a reaosn to watch.
> 
> 
> Jericho vs Orange Cassidy isn't a reason to watch. Moxley vs Cage for the title is.


Doesn’t stop some from screaming stupid shit.


----------



## K4L318




----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> The WWF was absolutely killing it at the time. It wasn’t unusual for it to get a 6.0 rating. WCW was spiralling. If you cannot tell the difference there, then there is NO helping you.
> 
> Embarrassing rating for NXT this week. Total viewership down on Wednesday night, which I called with bdon (I’ll have my cake now, donster ), which is a bad sign for Wednesday nights. Fewer people in that hardcore group of fans watching. I don’t know why people assume that AEW is going to get up to 1 million viewers. The pool to share is getting smaller and smaller.
> 
> Also, optikk is really embarrassing. It’s very clear how much those weeks where AEW lost the viewership bruised him given that meltdown. It’s going to be pretty rich when AEW start losing again. I imagine Chris Jericho and Tony Khan are doing the same thing.


NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> You’re a troll


in what way?

if the quarters come out and kiss has lost a lot of viewers, i'll gladly accept the whole "SONNY KISS RATINGS DEATH" thing that literally everyone has been saying.

but i mean...the overall rating suggests otherwise. and i don't think everyone would've watched from the beginning just for the main event. they'd just watch the main event. ESPECIALLY if AEW is just that unwatchable.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> in what way?
> 
> if the quarters come out and kiss has lost a lot of viewers, i'll gladly accept the whole "SONNY KISS RATINGS DEATH" thing that literally everyone has been saying.
> 
> but i mean...the overall rating suggests otherwise. and i don't think everyone would've watched from the beginning just for the main event. they'd just watch the main event. ESPECIALLY if AEW is just that unwatchable.


Kiss can't lose viewers since his match is in the first quarter.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> They HAD to? Now who is making excuses? When you put a goof in the main event, you lose. When you treat your main event seriously, you win.


Come on be fair. OC/Jericho was the most built-up match after Mox/Cage, which was postponed. Jericho was the biggest star on the show so they had to pivot and make it the main match. It was either that or book a random main event with random people and no build.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Kiss can't lose viewers since his match is in the first quarter.


if his quarter is significantly lower than the rest of the quarters it suggests that he lost viewers.


----------



## rexmundi

AEW has only broken 800,000 viewers and .3 in the demo one time since March 25. That was for the Tyson episode. Those numbers are one they need to try to attain and build on rather than yoyoing between 700 and 600K each week.


----------



## The Wood

It’d be funny if everyone who watched AEW this week had the same response as three quarters of the board here and said “Never again” after the show. Tuned back in thinking Jericho/OC was done and NXT had delivered their big thing, only to see this week’s show.

Marathon, not a sprint.


----------



## rbl85

rexmundi said:


> AEW has only broken 800,000 viewers and .3 in the demo one time since March 25. That was for the Tyson episode. Those numbers are one they need to try to attain and build on rather than yoyoing between 700 and 600K each week.


Thanks Sherlock.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> I can see AEW not winning the ratings war for a while. They let their foot off the gas protecting storylines and all those stupid fucking excuses, and now they find out that momentum is a fickle motherfucker.


how wrong you were, bdon


----------



## The Wood

More interesting will be to see how these sides respond. Is AEW going to take it as justification to put on shitty shows? Is NXT going to panic or keep a steady hand?


----------



## Prosper

rexmundi said:


> AEW has only broken 800,000 viewers and .3 in the demo one time since March 25. That was for the Tyson episode. Those numbers are one they need to try to attain and build on rather than yoyoing between 700 and 600K each week.


It's still the no crowd era we can't forget about that, cable numbers are abnormally down for RAW and SD as well. There's a large portion of people who refuse to watch wrestling in its current state. I was almost one of those people.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Huh

MTV Challenge AND Real Housewives has season finales last night

AND there was Nascar and UFC

yet, AEW climbed

next week is going to be interesting

AEW might go top 3


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> More interesting will be to see how these sides respond. Is AEW going to take it as justification to put on shitty shows? Is NXT going to panic or keep a steady hand?


Vince will take over NXT and put main roster talent on the show and AEW will try and convince people that All Out is worth $50. That is how both sides will respond.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> if his quarter is significantly lower than the rest of the quarters it suggests that he lost viewers.


oooorrrr.... they started tuning in because they heard how good his match was


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Huh
> 
> MTV Challenge AND Real Housewives has season finales last night
> 
> AND there was Nascar and UFC
> 
> yet, AEW climbed
> 
> next week is going to be interesting
> 
> AEW might go top 3


is next week live?

we need the flamboyant fighter in the main event.

KISS = MONEY


----------



## K4L318

I get to see all
View attachment 88920
next week


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2 more NBA/MLB free weeks until both leagues are back and likely crush both shows.


----------



## taker1986

Good to see AEW back on track in the ratings. Things should pick up with All Out approaching. If they're smart with their build up to All Out there's no reason why they should be losing. 

Hopefully when we get crowds back they can get a million again, no reason why they can't. They would be consistently getting 1 million already if it wasn't up against another wrestling show, even now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> is next week live?
> 
> we need the flamboyant fighter in the main event.
> 
> KISS = MONEY


next week is not live unfortunately


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> 2 more NBA/MLB free weeks until both leagues are back and likely crush both shows.


will they have crowds?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

K4L318 said:


> View attachment 88918
> 
> 
> I get to see all
> View attachment 88920
> next week


you’re the real ratings king


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LifeInCattleClass said:


> will they have crowds?


Not sure. I hope so. If not, that means those people will be at home watching on TV and boosting the ratings for those leagues. Ratings should be high. We haven't had real sports in ages at this point.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

and btw guys, do you realise that nxt HAS to put on specials. any normal show won't draw like the past 2 weeks. i mean that should be worrying for WWE.

Even when AEW dont even try, they're usually doing 700. Look at what happens when they do try. Now if they stamp out the garbage, imagine how much higher they could climb.


----------



## llj

LifeInCattleClass said:


> will they have crowds?


Absolutely not.


----------



## DaSlacker

rexmundi said:


> AEW has only broken 800,000 viewers and .3 in the demo one time since March 25. That was for the Tyson episode. Those numbers are one they need to try to attain and build on rather than yoyoing between 700 and 600K each week.


It's easier to see AEW increasing their viewership via a return of fans and/or a new night than it is to see Raw turning things around.

Though my gut feeling is that fans aren't back for another year and empty arenas pull all 4 shows into permanent sub 1 million viewer territory. Reason? NXT and Dynamite compliment each other via WNWs whereas the performance centre damages WWE's general glitzy image.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

llj said:


> Absolutely not.


will be weird

especially for NBA

MLB might be fine


----------



## Prosper

Showstopper said:


> Not sure. I hope so. If not, that means those people will be at home watching on TV and boosting the ratings for those leagues. Ratings should be high. We haven't had real sports in ages at this point.


They'll be high for sure. NBA playoffs even with no fans and a lot of star players testing positive with COVID will still be watchable for a lot of people. They may go the AEW/WWE route and have some fans out there though all 10 feet apart for some kind of noise. They can still give it the feel of like a local park basketball game. Its still something.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

prosperwithdeen said:


> They'll be high for sure. NBA playoffs even with no fans and a lot of star players testing positive with COVID will still be watchable for a lot of people. They may go the AEW/WWE route and have some fans out there though all 10 feet apart for some kind of noise. They can still give it the feel of like a local park basketball game. Its still something.


I agree. I'd expect the ratings will be good for team sports due to fans not being in attendance now being forced to watch on TV which will boost the ratings and the US not having real sports (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, etc) in a long time now. If the ratings for those leagues aren't high when they come back, I'd be surprised.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> I agree. I'd expect the ratings will be good for team sports due to fans not being in attendance now being forced to watch on TV which will boost the ratings and the US not having real sports (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, etc) in a long time now. If the ratings for those leagues aren't high when they come back, I'd be surprised.


good call

might see a drop midseason though when boring games happen


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Come on be fair. OC/Jericho was the most built-up match after Mox/Cage, which was postponed. Jericho was the biggest star on the show so they had to pivot and make it the main match. It was either that or book a random main event with random people and no build.


They chose...poorly. This week they won by doing what they should. I hope they learned their lesson but forcing another Jericho goof match does not give me a good feeling.


----------



## AEWMoxley

optikk sucks said:


> and btw guys, do you realise that nxt HAS to put on specials. any normal show won't draw like the past 2 weeks. i mean that should be worrying for WWE.
> 
> Even when AEW dont even try, they're usually doing 700. Look at what happens when they do try. Now if they stamp out the garbage, imagine how much higher they could climb.


I really hope that episode wasn't AEW "trying." They should be able to put on shows much better than that.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It’d be funny if everyone who watched AEW this week had the same response as three quarters of the board here and said “Never again” after the show. Tuned back in thinking Jericho/OC was done and NXT had delivered their big thing, only to see this week’s show.
> 
> Marathon, not a sprint.


You're diminishing along with nxt


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEWMoxley said:


> I really hope that episode wasn't AEW "trying." They should be able to put on shows much better than that.


The card on paper was stronger than last week for sure. of course there are a lot more things they could've done. but on paper, decent card.


----------



## taker1986

optikk sucks said:


> and btw guys, do you realise that nxt HAS to put on specials. any normal show won't draw like the past 2 weeks. i mean that should be worrying for WWE.
> 
> Even when AEW dont even try, they're usually doing 700. Look at what happens when they do try. Now if they stamp out the garbage, imagine how much higher they could climb.


Exactly. 

I feel like with NXT they've blown their load the last two week and given away so much, the biggest match they could've possibly had was Cole/Lee and they gave that away in a double title match just to counter what AEW, were doing and the other week they gave away a WM worthy women's title match. Where do they go now? The biggest match they can do now is Keith Lee v Karrion Kross which is likely going to be saved for their next takeover, whereas I feel AEW has so many cards left in play in regards to how many big matches they can pull out the hat.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, NXT has not given away everything they can. They've been far more conservative with their booking than AEW. They've got about 100 people between Raw and SmackDown they can bolster their roster with.

Daniel Bryan vs. Adam Cole -- Bryan comes back to NXT looking to beat Cole on his turf like Cole did him on SmackDown. There you go, instant NXT win. I don't get why people don't realise that NXT has been boxing with two hands tied behind their back.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I feel like with NXT they've blown their load the last two week and given away so much, the biggest match they could've possibly had was Cole/Lee and they gave that away in a double title match just to counter what AEW, were doing and the other week they gave away a WM worthy women's title match. Where do they go now? The biggest match they can do now is Keith Lee v Karrion Kross which is likely going to be saved for their next takeover, whereas I feel AEW has so many cards left in play in regards to how many big matches they can pull out the hat.


and WWE called it a marathon not a sprint. Yet it seems like AEW are the guys to take it slow. I think they've actually been taking it too slowly.


----------



## The Wood

How exactly have AEW been taking it slow?


----------



## iarwain

Seriously, if AEW hadn't won the ratings this week with that card, there would be a serious problem.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> and WWE called it a marathon not a sprint. Yet it seems like AEW are the guys to take it slow. I think they've actually been taking it too slowly.


yep - too slow

they are sitting on their big angles


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

iarwain said:


> Seriously, if AEW hadn't won the ratings this week with that card, there would be a serious problem.


but they did, and so it wasn’t


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Lol, NXT has not given away everything they can. They've been far more conservative with their booking than AEW. They've got about 100 people between Raw and SmackDown they can bolster their roster with.
> 
> Daniel Bryan vs. Adam Cole -- Bryan comes back to NXT looking to beat Cole on his turf like Cole did him on SmackDown. There you go, instant NXT win. I don't get why people don't realise that NXT has been boxing with two hands tied behind their back.


as somebody who clearly watches NXT and has a lot of ideas

i hope to see you in their thread telling them how to improve that 0.14 and 0.02

(i mean... maybe you do, i never go there - do you?)


----------



## Prosper

taker1986 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I feel like with NXT they've blown their load the last two week and given away so much, the biggest match they could've possibly had was Cole/Lee and they gave that away in a double title match just to counter what AEW, were doing and the other week they gave away a WM worthy women's title match. Where do they go now? The biggest match they can do now is Keith Lee v Karrion Kross which is likely going to be saved for their next takeover, whereas I feel AEW has so many cards left in play in regards to how many big matches they can pull out the hat.


Those were their 2 biggest matches. And one of them was because they called down Sasha. If they want a real chance at winning consistently they’d have to call main roster talent to the show for extended periods of time, which would then change everything because then it’s AEW vs main roster instead of AEW vs NXT. At that point the conversation changes in regards to the “war”. And even then it may not work because Charlotte, one of their main stars, was moved down to NXT for the sole reason of combating AEW in cable viewership and things got worse. Things didn’t get better until Sasha Banks.


----------



## taker1986

optikk sucks said:


> and WWE called it a marathon not a sprint. Yet it seems like AEW are the guys to take it slow. I think they've actually been taking it too slowly.


I agree. I think they're trying to save most of their big stuff for when crowds return. The problem is we don't know when that'll be, might not even be until next year. 

With That said, I think they'll step up the gas with these storylines in the build up to All Out. They're teasing multiple heel turns and a 4 horseman stable. I think something big is going to happen pretty soon.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> as somebody who clearly watches NXT and has a lot of ideas
> 
> i hope to see you in their thread telling them how to improve that 0.14 and 0.02
> 
> (i mean... maybe you do, i never go there - do you?)


To be fair to Wood that section is dead as fuck. Last nights show got like 6 replies and the ratings thread gets like 3 replies a week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> Those were their 2 biggest matches. And one of them was because they called down Sasha.* If they want a real chance at winning consistently they’d have to call main roster talent to the show for extended periods of time, which would then change everything because then it’s AEW vs main roster instead of AEW vs NXT*. At that point the conversation changes in regards to the “war”. And even then it may not work because Charlotte, one of their main stars, was moved down to NXT for the sole reason of combating AEW in cable viewership and things got worse. Things didn’t get better until Sasha Banks.


They tried bringing the main roster to NXT. They called it the third brand. And it did nothing for them long term.

I mean you’re right either way. If they bring in main roster talent, they’ve admitted defeat.

If VKM begged Punk to sign to NXT as a permanent addition, would Punk agree?


----------



## MrThortan

Happy that AEW bounced back. I enjoyed yesterday's show. Sunny, Stunt, and OC don't really bother me. I was actually impressed at how well OC can go in the ring. That being said, I have low standards. It's wrestling. I just want to be entertained.


----------



## taker1986

prosperwithdeen said:


> Those were their 2 biggest matches. And one of them was because they called down Sasha. If they want a real chance at winning consistently they’d have to call main roster talent to the show for extended periods of time, which would then change everything because then it’s AEW vs main roster instead of AEW vs NXT. At that point the conversation changes in regards to the “war”. And even then it may not work because Charlotte, one of their main stars, was moved down to NXT for the sole reason of combating AEW in cable viewership and things got worse. Things didn’t get better until Sasha Banks.


One thing I hate seeing on here is NXT being referred as a "developmental brand" lol no it's a 3rd brand. We've seen Charlotte and Sasha there recently. NXT have Balor, Adam Cole (Former ROH champion) Karrion Kross etc plus NXT were heavily involved in Survivor Series last year (which was solely done to compete with AEW in the ratings) ie Raw v SmackDown v NXT. Adam cole went over Daniel Bryan on SD, Shayna beat Becky and Bayley in a triple threat champions match, as Did Roderick strong against AJ and Nakamura in a triple threat champion match And they won the women's survivor series match, they had the most wins on the show lol. Some "developmental" brand eh lol.

Here's the SS poster. NXT in the center


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> They tried bringing the main roster to NXT. They called it the third brand. And it did nothing for them long term.
> 
> I mean you’re right either way. If they bring in main roster talent, they’ve admitted defeat.
> 
> If VKM begged Punk to sign to NXT as a permanent addition, would Punk agree?


If they start bringing in a bunch of main roster reinforcements, guys that are viewed by a much larger audience on the FOX network, then it’s not a war anymore, and yes it means they admit defeat. One talent every now and then is fair, but if Vince starts calling down 4 or 5 guys every week then the conversation changes. And even then AEW could probably still win 😂

Punk will accept if it’s $20 million for limited dates lol.


----------



## Prosper

taker1986 said:


> One thing I hate seeing on here is NXT being referred as a "developmental brand" lol no it's a 3rd brand. We've seen Charlotte and Sasha there recently. NXT have Balor, Adam Cole (Former ROH champion) Karrion Kross etc plus NXT were heavily involved in Survivor Series last year (which was solely done to compete with AEW in the ratings) ie Raw v SmackDown v NXT. Adam cole went over Daniel Bryan on SD, Shayna beat Becky and Bayley in a triple threat champions match, as Did Roderick strong against AJ and Nakamura in a triple threat champion match And they won the women's survivor series match, they had the most wins on the show lol. Some "developmental" brand eh lol.
> 
> Here's the SS poster. NXT in the center
> 
> View attachment 88923


You do have a point, NXT dominated at SSeries. Their shows are also 10 times better than RAW and SD so in reality their actually the A show if we’re not taking about ratings or Brock Lesnar.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> One thing I hate seeing on here is NXT being referred as a "developmental brand" lol no it's a 3rd brand. We've seen Charlotte and Sasha there recently. NXT have Balor, Adam Cole (Former ROH champion) Karrion Kross etc plus NXT were heavily involved in Survivor Series last year (which was solely done to compete with AEW in the ratings) ie Raw v SmackDown v NXT. Adam cole went over Daniel Bryan on SD, Shayna beat Becky and Bayley in a triple threat champions match, as Did Roderick strong against AJ and Nakamura in a triple threat champion match And they won the women's survivor series match, they had the most wins on the show lol. Some "developmental" brand eh lol.
> 
> Here's the SS poster. NXT in the center
> 
> View attachment 88923


Do you know what would be embarrassing? If they brought in the big guns from RAW/SD and AEW still outdraws. I don't know if VKM is willing to take that risk. AEW's key demo is incredibly strong.


----------



## NXT Only

I forgot WWE buried Raw and SD letting NXT go over at Survivor Series


----------



## Hephaesteus

llj said:


> Even with Sasha/Bayley NXT pretty much only got them on par with AEW in total viewers, and still lost the demo. This week they got stomped in all areas, I think there's been enough sample size to show an AEW average show can compete with NXT's best punch
> 
> Moxley I think is also a bigger draw than most main roster WWE stars appearing on NXT. There's been a pattern of Moxley consistently making a big difference when he appears.


If the main event of said show is a "dream" match that was built in less than a week which anybody with sense knew had no way of being as good as it should've been, there is no way that you can say that was their best punch. So no there isn't enough of a sample size to say that.

I do hope that WWE learns from this though. Days of relying on one match or guest stars to bring fans in needs to stop asap.


----------



## taker1986

optikk sucks said:


> Do you know what would be embarrassing? If they brought in the big guns from RAW/SD and AEW still outdraws. I don't know if VKM is willing to take that risk. AEW's key demo is incredibly strong.


There's no doubt that's what they'll do for Survivor Series, which will likely be another Raw v SD v NXT. If let's say Orton, Rollins, KO and Lashley are on team Raw and let's go with Bryan, Braun, AJ and Miz on team SD then they'll bring them for matches on NXT and use the SS brand feud as a reason to bring them down, where in reality it'll be because they're trying to compete with AEW in the ratings. I can see this coming from a mile away.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> There's no doubt that's what they'll do for Survivor Series, which will likely be another Raw v SD v NXT. If let's say Orton, Rollins, KO and Lashley are on team Raw and let's go with Bryan, Braun, AJ and Miz on team SD then they'll bring them for matches on NXT and use the SS brand feud as a reason to bring them down, where in reality it'll be because they're trying to compete with AEW in the ratings. I can see this coming from a mile away.


by that time, AEW will have the horsemen, heel Omega, massively over Page, world champion MJF, possibly face Jericho and IC.


----------



## Hephaesteus

taker1986 said:


> One thing I hate seeing on here is NXT being referred as a "developmental brand" lol no it's a 3rd brand. We've seen Charlotte and Sasha there recently. NXT have Balor, Adam Cole (Former ROH champion) Karrion Kross etc plus NXT were heavily involved in Survivor Series last year (which was solely done to compete with AEW in the ratings) ie Raw v SmackDown v NXT. Adam cole went over Daniel Bryan on SD, Shayna beat Becky and Bayley in a triple threat champions match, as Did Roderick strong against AJ and Nakamura in a triple threat champion match And they won the women's survivor series match, they had the most wins on the show lol. Some "developmental" brand eh lol.
> 
> Here's the SS poster. NXT in the center
> 
> View attachment 88923


Still developmental. Flair came and went without taking a pin, Sasha ( who wwe gives less than a fuck about ) has yet to have taken a clean pin to any Nxt talent, Shayna was being primed for a run at Becky, and the other people pinned that night were basically jobbers. Its only in the center because it was a new addition for that particular ppv


----------



## Danielallen1410

LifeInCattleClass said:


> as somebody who clearly watches NXT and has a lot of ideas
> 
> i hope to see you in their thread telling them how to improve that 0.14 and 0.02
> 
> (i mean... maybe you do, i never go there - do you?)


he won’t do that as nobody is in there to bite and give the poor bloke any attention.


----------



## Erik.




----------



## Randy Lahey

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite 788,000 viewers with 0.29 rating
> 
> NXT 631,000 with 0.14 rating


Dave and Bryan thought NXT would be down going against a live UFC show and live NASCAR race. Terrible demo nonetheless.

Very solid rating for AEW. They at least have a core dependable audience whereas WWE is viewership is absolutely tanking with no end in sight


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> Lol, NXT has not given away everything they can. They've been far more conservative with their booking than AEW. They've got about 100 people between Raw and SmackDown they can bolster their roster with.
> 
> Daniel Bryan vs. Adam Cole -- Bryan comes back to NXT looking to beat Cole on his turf like Cole did him on SmackDown. There you go, instant NXT win. I don't get why people don't realise that NXT has been boxing with two hands tied behind their back.


True. WWE literally have 3x as many wrestlers than AEW to pool from if they want to bolster NXT at any given moment. Theoretically, we could have:

Week 1: Brock Lesnar vs Keith Lee
Week 2: Bayley vs Rhea Ripley
Week 3: Randy Orton vs Keith Lee
Week 4: Seth Rollins, Murphy & Austin Theory vs Undisputed Era

and so on and so on.

The risk for WWE is that rather than inflating NXT's numbers up to 1.2M or above, they risk defining down the RAW and Smackdown talent to the point where 1.0M - 1.2M for the main roster shows is the norm. And that's an issue during the pandemic era - everything is the same aside from signage. RAW, Smackdown, and NXT are all taped in the same building in front of the same trainees. It could easily flatten out the perception of wrestlers across all three brands.


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> will they have crowds?


No crowds for either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> To be fair to Wood that section is dead as fuck. Last nights show got like 6 replies and the ratings thread gets like 3 replies a week.


to be fair to us, if all of their fans chatted over there instead of over here, it will be more lively

its like if all of the NXT fans stopped watching AEW they’ll win the ratings


----------



## Seafort

prosperwithdeen said:


> You do have a point, NXT dominated at SSeries. Their shows are also 10 times better than RAW and SD so in reality their actually the A show if we’re not taking about ratings or Brock Lesnar.


The problem then was that it was just an angle to build to Survivor Series. They could have furthered the angle after SS in a number of ways. This one in particular might have been a dagger to AEW...or a disaster:

*Night after Survivor Series*: Continued NXT and RAW clashes. Final quarter hour - HHH comes out to crow about NXT's win. Vince McMahon comes out and agrees, and says that too many RAW superstars have become complacent. Gone is the spirit of Ruthless Aggression. And now he is trusting in Hunter to instill it in them. Vince then declares that *the entire RAW roster is being relegated* in mass to NXT, while the entire NXT contingent will be brought up to RAW.

*NXT after Survivor Series*: We open with Seth Rollins vs Aleister Black (who is quite bitter about being sent back down to NXT because Seth failed at SS). We close with Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I expected AEW to win in a sweep but I thought the viewers would be much closer especially since AEW started with that Sonny Kiss stuff and NXT from what I understand started with their new double champion Keith Lee. That Lee/Cole match drew over 900K in the last qtr last week I would have expected NXT to start hot close to 800K but with that low number there is no way. NXT's demos are so bad 0.14 18-49 and some of those demos are cancel bad. AEW .40 to NXT .14 in 18-49 Males, .16 to .05 18-34, .20 to .02 Males 12-34, .35 to .19 25-54. AEW just needs to worry about themselves as Top 5 is pretty good and with a few of those shows above it ending there is a real opportunity to to move up even more. I know Moxley was back and had a title match and very well could drop to 700K (or lower) next week. It will be interesting to see how the NBA does. I am not interested in empty arena basketball with the sole goal of making LeBron 4-6. I barely have watched the NBA the past 2 seasons I'm a lifelong Cavs fan but hard to care when the owner does not prepare for LeBron leaving twice. It was easy to see he was leaving after quitting in the 2018 Finals after that monster Game 1 and faked a broken hand. I would have had more respect for him if he just said I am leaving after this season and be honest. Every year it was a balancing act and it got old. LeBron emasculated Kyrie and ran him off and he gave Kevin Love mental health issues. LeBron was never beating peak GS without Kyrie and 2017 they needed even more. I am not butthurt I just don't care about NBA anymore. I'd rather watch Wrestling or something on Netflix/Hulu.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Huh
> 
> MTV Challenge AND Real Housewives has season finales last night
> 
> AND there was Nascar and UFC
> 
> yet, AEW climbed
> 
> next week is going to be interesting
> 
> AEW might go top 3


now that it has quieted down, think this is a fair discussion

both of these are ending next week - a reality soap and reality athletic challenge - can AEW take some of this demo and how?

if somebody suggests 80s style old school wrestling i’m gonna claw their eyes out


----------



## taker1986

Seafort said:


> True. WWE literally have 3x as many wrestlers than AEW to pool from if they want to bolster NXT at any given moment. Theoretically, we could have:
> 
> Week 1: Brock Lesnar vs Keith Lee
> Week 2: Bayley vs Rhea Ripley
> Week 3: Randy Orton vs Keith Lee
> Week 4: Seth Rollins, Murphy & Austin Theory vs Undisputed Era
> 
> and so on and so on.
> 
> The risk for WWE is that rather than inflating NXT's numbers up to 1.2M or above, they risk defining down the RAW and Smackdown talent to the point where 1.0M - 1.2M for the main roster shows is the norm. And that's an issue during the pandemic era - everything is the same aside from signage. RAW, Smackdown, and NXT are all taped in the same building in front of the same trainees. It could easily flatten out the perception of wrestlers across all three brands.


They've given away every big match between their NXT talent. If they move all these guys down NXT loses its identity an like @optikk sucks pointed out earlier it becomes AEW v WWE as its the main roster moving down. 

Even then AEW has plenty of big matches they could put out that they haven't done yet


----------



## taker1986

Hephaesteus said:


> Still developmental. Flair came and went without taking a pin, Sasha ( who wwe gives less than a fuck about ) has yet to have taken a clean pin to any Nxt talent, Shayna was being primed for a run at Becky, and the other people pinned that night were basically jobbers. Its only in the center because it was a new addition for that particular ppv


It's NOT developmental lol its a 3rd brand. The last two weeks we had a WM worthy women's title match and a double title match. 

Over the last few years, Joe, Nakamura, McIntyre, Black, Cole, Balor, Lee, Kross have all been full time On NXT. If you seriously think any of these guys are "developmental" talent then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> now that it has quieted down, think this is a fair discussion
> 
> both of these are ending next week - a reality soap and reality athletic challenge - can AEW take some of this demo and how?
> 
> if somebody suggests 80s style old school wrestling i’m gonna claw their eyes out


I don’t think so because the promotion for next week is poor. I mean what the bloody hell is even happening next week? MJF in action, sure. But they should’ve told us this during the show and not just on Twitter. AEW should consider paying for Instagram/social media spots. Promote it as the next season for example. Especially if e are gonna finally get those bloody storylines they’ve been teasing for what’s felt like a year.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t think so because the promotion for next week is poor. I mean what the bloody hell is even happening next week? MJF in action, sure. *But they should’ve told us this during the show and not just on Twitter*. AEW should consider paying for Instagram/social media spots. Promote it as the next season for example. Especially if e are gonna finally get those bloody storylines they’ve been teasing for what’s felt like a year.


They did they even showed the graphic.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

taker1986 said:


> It's NOT developmental lol its a 3rd brand. The last two weeks we had a WM worthy women's title match and a double title match.
> 
> Over the last few years, Joe, Nakamura, McIntyre, Black, Cole, Balor, Lee, Kross have all been full time On NXT. If you seriously think any of these guys are "developmental" talent then I don't know what to tell you.


People are still clutching onto the developmental tag, even though WWE have specifically told us that its not? lmao.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> They did


What’s the card for next week?


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> What’s the card for next week?



MJF in action
Cody TNT challenge
Bucks vs BnB falls count anywhere
Ivelisse vs Diamante
Jericho and Hager vs Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus
Page vs Angels


----------



## ripcitydisciple

prosperwithdeen said:


> Sasha Banks is definitely the number mover here.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a huge Kieth Lee fan, kind of surprised at it being this low. Not a good loo at all. I worry that Vince is gonna take the title off of him now that he's doing more in NXT. That's what sucks about all this.


The issue was his first defense was against Dijakovic. It was out of nowhere and Lee's fought him enough times already that no one wanted to see it again and it was an obvious outcome Lee would retain.


----------



## DaSlacker

taker1986 said:


> It's NOT developmental lol its a 3rd brand. The last two weeks we had a WM worthy women's title match and a double title match.
> 
> Over the last few years, Joe, Nakamura, McIntyre, Black, Cole, Balor, Lee, Kross have all been full time On NXT. If you seriously think any of these guys are "developmental" talent then I don't know what to tell you.


There's an irony that NXT's least developed or unsuccessful talent actually finding an identity/character development on the main roster: Elias, Otis, Street Profits, Alexa, Lacey. Hell, Braun didn't even go through there.


----------



## 10gizzle

rbl85 said:


> MJF in action
> Cody TNT challenge
> Bucks vs BnB falls count anywhere
> Ivelisse vs Diamante
> Jericho and Hager vs Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus
> Page vs Angels


Not bad at all. 

You know Lucha Bros and FTR are gonna make their presence felt somehow in that tag match.

Could be a great episode if things go right.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> MJF in action
> Cody TNT challenge
> Bucks vs BnB falls count anywhere
> Ivelisse vs Diamante
> Jericho and Hager vs Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus
> Page vs Angels


Ah yes you’re right my bad. Good enough card to keep people interested? What do you think?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t think so because the promotion for next week is poor. I mean what the bloody hell is even happening next week? MJF in action, sure. But they should’ve told us this during the show and not just on Twitter. AEW should consider paying for Instagram/social media spots. Promote it as the next season for example. Especially if e are gonna finally get those bloody storylines they’ve been teasing for what’s felt like a year.


yeah, not even sure what the main event is

its weird - they are amazing self-promoters / but they definitely are not advertisers

i would’ve whipped them up an online campaign something fierce - or Prosper would’ve

Facebook / twitter target it direct at Challenge / Housewives viewers


----------



## Pippen94

Prediction; nxt will be canceled. By end of year Dynamite will be beating raw in key demos


----------



## Hephaesteus

taker1986 said:


> It's NOT developmental lol its a 3rd brand. The last two weeks we had a WM worthy women's title match and a double title match.
> 
> Over the last few years, Joe, Nakamura, McIntyre, Black, Cole, Balor, Lee, Kross have all been full time On NXT. If you seriously think any of these guys are "developmental" talent then I don't know what to tell you.


If io vs Tegan was such a wm worthy woman's title match they wouldn't have sent Sasha down there to save their card three weeks ago, and a title vs title developmental match is just that.

And yes all those names have been down there for the reason of *developing* them for the main roster, its almost as if you're purposely ignoring the model they were following before they got on tv because it ruins the narrative. They're not even part of the draft.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Prediction; nxt will be canceled. By end of year Dynamite will be beating raw in key demos


you can’t stay on the air with a 0.02 in males 12-34 without giving something else back to the network

discount on RAW maybe? Low license fees for NXT?

Whatever it is - think they’ll stay on the air


----------



## taker1986

Hephaesteus said:


> If io vs Tegan was such a wm worthy woman's title match they wouldn't have sent Sasha down there to save their card three weeks ago, and a title vs title developmental match is just that.
> 
> And yes all those names have been down there for the reason of *developing* them for the main roster, its almost as if you're purposely ignoring the model they were following before they got on tv because it ruins the narrative. They're not even part of the draft.


I'm not talking about Io v Tegan, I'm talking about Io v Sasha, which is a WM worthy match they gave away to counter AEW. 

None of these names are developmental because none of them needed developed in the first place. 

Nakamura - Main event guy in NJPW

Samoa Joe - Big name in impact and ROH

McIntyre - Former TNA champion and was a main roster guy before 

Balor - Big name on the indies, part of the bullet club. 

Cole - Same as Balor, big name on the indies, part of the bullet club, former ROH champion etc. 

Kross - Big name on impact and other promotions. 

Lee - Big name on the indies 

The fact that you think any of them need "developing" for the main roster is quite frankly laughable. These are some of the best wrestlers in the world ffs.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Mox's absence has been a huge ratings killer the past few weeks.
Something else that was different this week-- no Dork Harder.


----------



## InexorableJourney

taker1986 said:


> I'm not talking about Io v Tegan, I'm talking about Io v Sasha, which is a WM worthy match they gave away to counter AEW.
> 
> None of these names are developmental because none of them needed developed in the first place.
> 
> Nakamura - Main event guy in NJPW
> 
> Samoa Joe - Big name in impact and ROH
> 
> McIntyre - Former TNA champion and was a main roster guy before
> 
> Balor - Big name on the indies, part of the bullet club.
> 
> Cole - Same as Balor, big name on the indies, part of the bullet club, former ROH champion etc.
> 
> Kross - Big name on impact and other promotions.
> 
> Lee - Big name on the indies
> 
> The fact that you think any of them need "developing" for the main roster is quite frankly laughable. These are some of the best wrestlers in the world ffs.


NXT works like a cult. First it breaks you down of your individuality, then you have to praise your loyalty to the leader.


----------



## Pippen94

InexorableJourney said:


> NXT works like a cult. First it breaks you down of your individuality, then you have to praise your loyalty to the leader.
> 
> View attachment 88932





InexorableJourney said:


> NXT works like a cult. First it breaks you down of your individuality, then you have to praise your loyalty to the leader.
> 
> View attachment 88932


Sounds like dark order


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Welp. AEW did well once again! You Love to see it!


----------



## Wolf Mark

Erik. said:


>


Would be a nice X division title for Impact.

Speaking about the numbers, fucking finally. A huge win. Who would have thought that putting together a top main event that people would be interested in watching, people would indeed watch! That is what Nitro and Raw were doing in the late 90s. This is how you do it, don't turn around the bush, pull all the stop and just do things that will make people interested in watching. Mox vs Cage mattered so people went ahead and took a peak.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Uhmmmm.... 800k this week
> 
> 0.29 demo


DEMOGOD SHIRTS are officially out I'm getting one.Demogod still undefeated.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

It's funny how people were saying this was a weak "special event" show but yet now its supposed to won because it was a special lol.


----------



## Wolf Mark

$Dolladrew$ said:


> It's funny how people were saying this was a weak "special event" show but yet now its supposed to won because it was a special lol.


I think the mixed message is that it could have been a greater card but Moxley being involved in a title match sure helped the ratings. AEW should do this always, great main events just like WWF and WCW used to do. Don't relax one week, just pull all the stops. That is how you get ratings.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Wolf Mark said:


> I think the mixed message is that it could have been a greater card but Moxley being involved in a title match sure helped the ratings. AEW should do this always, great main events just like WWF and WCW used to do. Don't relax one week, just pull all the stops. That is how you get ratings.


Agreed it's just something I thought was amusing lol.


----------



## CM Buck

I knew that aew would win this week. Io vs nox wasn't enticing and neither was priest and grimes. And an unadvertised world title match that ended up clunking.

It's like hunter saw mox vs cage was happening and thought hey those monkeys enjoy Lee vs fijak. Lets run that for the 300th time


----------



## Ozell Gray

Randy Lahey said:


> Dave and Bryan thought NXT would be down going against a live UFC show and live NASCAR race. Terrible demo nonetheless.
> 
> Very solid rating for AEW. They at least have a core dependable audience whereas WWE is viewership is absolutely tanking with no end in sight


AEW doesn't have a "core dependable audience" since they've lost 46% of their viewers and 58 of their rating within 9 months which is a record. No other company has tanked as fast as AEW has. AEW will barely be doing 600k within a couple of months from now. The difference is WWE can turn it around since its the biggest company in the industry. The same can't be said for AEW.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW doesn't have a "core dependable audience" since they've lost 46% of their viewers and 58 of their rating within 9 months which is a record. No other company has tanked as fast as AEW has. AEW will barely be doing 600k within a couple of months from now. The difference is WWE can turn it around since its the biggest company in the industry. The same can't be said for AEW.


Lol, y'all dont even know how to analyze data.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> Lol, y'all dont even know how to analyze data.


You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Dynamite debuted with 1.4 million viewers with a 0.68 rating and that has dropped to an average of 730,000 viewers and 0.27 rating which is a 46% drop in viewership and 58% drop in ratings.


----------



## Chan Hung

Pippen94 said:


> Prediction; nxt will be canceled. By end of year Dynamite will be beating raw in key demos


Little harsh to predict the end of NXT. They've been around forever. Worse case maybe dropped from USA network and are just on the network as before. I actually like NXT a lot more than years past. Last year and half i've given high praise to NXT. I think in many ways NXT is better than AEW. But we shall see


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Says the guy who gave the show a 3/10 last night.


Yes, but as you guys are always quick to point out that's just my opinion. I know there are people out there who love The Bucks, I know there are people out there that love many of those guys in AEW.

I gave it a 3/10 but can openly admit Cage/Moxley, FTR/Lucha Bros and quite possibly even the six man and Cody are a draw for AEW fans.



optikk sucks said:


> and btw guys, do you realise that nxt HAS to put on specials. any normal show won't draw like the past 2 weeks. i mean that should be worrying for WWE.
> 
> Even when AEW dont even try, they're usually doing 700. Look at what happens when they do try. Now if they stamp out the garbage, imagine how much higher they could climb.


That's the dream, stamp out the garbage and climb to the top of the wrestling world.

NXT will win without specials as well. This week it was TV special loaded with star power Vs average NXT show.



Erik. said:


>


It's a little thing called marketing, Erik. They aren't going to say "Add the developmental belt to your collection today"



Wolf Mark said:


> I think the mixed message is that it could have been a greater card but Moxley being involved in a title match sure helped the ratings. AEW should do this always, great main events just like WWF and WCW used to do. Don't relax one week, just pull all the stops. That is how you get ratings.


This. But they will continue to twist our words.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Dynamite debuted with 1.4 million viewers with a 0.68 rating and that has dropped to an average of 730,000 viewers and 0.27 rating which is a 46% drop in viewership and 58% drop in ratings.


That's not how you analyze data which is my point, key word analyze. 

You thought 1.4M was sustainable? They started with 0 competition since NXT wasn't live yet and they had the buzz a new promotion launching on TNT. Many variables followed, NXT going live, people utilizing DVR and on demand, B/R live becoming an option, FiteTV, illegal streaming, etc...

You see it as lost viewership and sure 1.4M aren't watching weekly but their viewership isn't just live tv, people watch different ways. If someone illegally streams the show it doesn't count towards the total but they still watched. I personally cant/dont watch live unless I am able to because of work. 

You also cannot take the 1st weeks numbers and then use an average viewership( a random one at that) to calculate the drop.

First 12 weeks(Q4)- 911K
Next 13 weeks(Q1)- 883K(-3%)
Next 13 weeks (Q2)- 708K(-19%)
Last 3 Weeks(Q3)- 750K(+5% so far)

-17% from Q4 of 2019 to the beginning of Q3 of 2020 not 46%.

AEW's average in the 42 shows they've run is *806K*. High 1.4M, Low 633K, Median *783K*

10 worst average 676K
10 best average 1.019M
21 shows in between *805K*


----------



## Hephaesteus

taker1986 said:


> I'm not talking about Io v Tegan, I'm talking about Io v Sasha, which is a WM worthy match they gave away to counter AEW.
> 
> None of these names are developmental because none of them needed developed in the first place.
> 
> Nakamura - Main event guy in NJPW
> 
> Samoa Joe - Big name in impact and ROH
> 
> McIntyre - Former TNA champion and was a main roster guy before
> 
> Balor - Big name on the indies, part of the bullet club.
> 
> Cole - Same as Balor, big name on the indies, part of the bullet club, former ROH champion etc.
> 
> Kross - Big name on impact and other promotions.
> 
> Lee - Big name on the indies
> 
> The fact that you think any of them need "developing" for the main roster is quite frankly laughable. These are some of the best wrestlers in the world ffs.


In other words a match featuring someone from the main roster?

I dont think shit it's in the name. Pointing out accomplishments mean jack shit . Do you think they were adding star power to a program that wasn't even on tv when the majority of those people that you listed started out?

If they're such a third program, why do they get paid less in Nxt not perform in the majority of the same pay per views as the main roster, not participate in any of the drafts? List goes on.


----------



## Pippen94

Chan Hung said:


> Little harsh to predict the end of NXT. They've been around forever. Worse case maybe dropped from USA network and are just on the network as before. I actually like NXT a lot more than years past. Last year and half i've given high praise to NXT. I think in many ways NXT is better than AEW. But we shall see


Program did a .02 in most important demo - safest bet on this forum


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> That's not how you analyze data which is my point, key word analyze.
> 
> You thought 1.4M was sustainable? They started with 0 competition since NXT wasn't live yet and they had the buzz a new promotion launching on TNT. Many variables followed, NXT going live, people utilizing DVR and on demand, B/R live becoming an option, FiteTV, illegal streaming, etc...
> 
> You see it as lost viewership and sure 1.4M aren't watching weekly but their viewership isn't just live tv, people watch different ways. If someone illegally streams the show it doesn't count towards the total but they still watched. I personally cant/dont watch live unless I am able to because of work.
> 
> You also cannot take the 1st weeks numbers and then use an average viewership( a random one at that) to calculate the drop.
> 
> First 12 weeks(Q4)- 911K
> Next 13 weeks(Q1)- 883K(-3%)
> Next 13 weeks (Q2)- 708K(-19%)
> Last 3 Weeks(Q3)- 750K(+5% so far)
> 
> -17% from Q4 of 2019 to the beginning of Q3 of 2020 not 46%.
> 
> AEW's average in the 42 shows they've run is *806K*. High 1.4M, Low 633K, Median *783K*
> 
> 10 worst average 676K
> 10 best average 1.019M
> 21 shows in between *805K*


I love how you're backtracking now that ypu got proven wrong and is resorting to "was the 1.4 million sustainable"?

That is how analyze data. You take the premiere episode and look at the average since then to see if theres an increase or a decrease and clearly theres been a decrease since Dynamite's debut. Except NXT was on head to head with Dynamite when it had 1.4 million viewers so you just lied and not to mention NXT is a developmental so thats not an excuse for why they've lost their audience in record time. You do know streaming viewers are only a couple thousand people right? I can show you that as well that streaming numbers aren't big.

Thats how you analyze data you take the dirst episode and then take the average afterwards to gauge interest.

Here you go

2019 911k

Pre-pandemic 884k

During pandemic

777,000 viewers which is a 47% drop since the premiere. Thats how you analyze data NOT your flawed logic of "analyzing" it.


----------



## zkorejo

I guess the demo really does like instant replays. Lol at everyone prematurely celebrating the death of aew.


----------



## El Hammerstone

zkorejo said:


> I guess the demo really does like instant replays. Lol at everyone prematurely celebrating the death of aew.


No one wants AEW to fail believe it or not.


----------



## zkorejo

El Hammerstone said:


> No one wants AEW to fail believe it or not.


When I see the same 5 people shitting on it 7 days a week, and not just shitting on some aspects, but every aspect of the show.. as if there's not ONE redeeming quality to AEW, then yes. I dont believe it.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

The Wood said:


> AEW had the hardcore fans mobilised. NXT beating them means that the WWE’s third leg has won on merit. You are coming at the ratings as “all things being equal,” which it’s not. AEW had the advantage, and them getting handed is them squandering it.


You'll literally make excuses for anything AEW succeeds at lol.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> When I see the same 5 people shitting on it 7 days a week, and not just shitting on some aspects, but every aspect of the show.. as if there's not ONE redeeming quality to AEW, then yes. I dont believe it.


Pretty sure there isn’t one single person who shits on every aspect. Most weeks, it’s 50/50 with even the staunchest of critics, excluding The Wood.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> Pretty sure there isn’t one single person who shits on every aspect. Most weeks, it’s 50/50 with even the staunchest of critics, excluding The Wood.


I wont name users and quote them as I dont like to get in that kind of shitstorm over here but the last two weeks have been totally annoying to read the most comments. I always knew wrestling fans can be entitled and shortsighted but every thread was full of negatives.

For example, in the Dynamite discussion, the big story angle the show did was Omega/FTR/Bucks yet it wasnt even mentioned or discussed in most reader reviews. But you see everyone and their mothers shitting on Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt. Both were in midcard random matches, not like they mainevented. 

I remember when this place had more people around on Raw section. I enjoyed the discussions there when I used to watch Raw weekly, even when the show was mediocre because the people there didnt come across like they had an agenda.

That is not the case here. Example:

TK talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!", Jericho talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Cody says he doesnt want to talk about ratings and its still "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Okay.

Sonny Kiss should not be allowed in the arena because his/her ass is out. That's unheard of, I'm pretty sure Orlando Jordan, Billy Gunn and Rico never existed. Marko Stunt is so repellent because he's small... like Spike Dudley and Hornswoggle never existed. Not to mention that is his character he is an annoying little brat who doesnt take it seriously.

Its like I'm blabbering now but the point is, everyone is fixated on the negatives and I rarely see the specific users every praising anything. Its like a never ending episode of Jim Cornette podcast, but in writing and there are actually 6 Cornettes always shitting on AEW.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> I forgot WWE buried Raw and SD letting NXT go over at Survivor Series


Of course AEW super fans don’t know what buried means.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> I wont name users and quote them as I dont like to get in that kind of shitstorm over here but the last two weeks have been totally annoying to read the most comments. I always knew wrestling fans can be entitled and shortsighted but every thread was full of negatives.
> 
> For example, in the Dynamite discussion, the big story angle the show did was Omega/FTR/Bucks yet it wasnt even mentioned or discussed in most reader reviews. But you see everyone and their mothers shitting on Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt. Both were in midcard random matches, not like they mainevented.
> 
> I remember when this place had more people around on Raw section. I enjoyed the discussions there when I used to watch Raw weekly, even when the show was mediocre because the people there didnt come across like they had an agenda.
> 
> That is not the case here. Example:
> 
> TK talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!", Jericho talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Cody says he doesnt want to talk about ratings and its still "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Okay.
> 
> Sonny Kiss should not be allowed in the arena because his/her ass is out. That's unheard of, I'm pretty sure Orlando Jordan, Billy Gunn and Rico never existed. Marko Stunt is so repellent because he's small... like Spike Dudley and Hornswoggle never existed. Not to mention that is his character he is an annoying little brat who doesnt take it seriously.
> 
> Its like I'm blabbering now but the point is, everyone is fixated on the negatives and I rarely see the specific users every praising anything. Its like a never ending episode of Jim Cornette podcast, but in writing and there are actually 6 Cornettes always shitting on AEW.





zkorejo said:


> I wont name users and quote them as I dont like to get in that kind of shitstorm over here but the last two weeks have been totally annoying to read the most comments. I always knew wrestling fans can be entitled and shortsighted but every thread was full of negatives.
> 
> For example, in the Dynamite discussion, the big story angle the show did was Omega/FTR/Bucks yet it wasnt even mentioned or discussed in most reader reviews. But you see everyone and their mothers shitting on Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt. Both were in midcard random matches, not like they mainevented.
> 
> I remember when this place had more people around on Raw section. I enjoyed the discussions there when I used to watch Raw weekly, even when the show was mediocre because the people there didnt come across like they had an agenda.
> 
> That is not the case here. Example:
> 
> TK talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!", Jericho talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Cody says he doesnt want to talk about ratings and its still "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Okay.
> 
> Sonny Kiss should not be allowed in the arena because his/her ass is out. That's unheard of, I'm pretty sure Orlando Jordan, Billy Gunn and Rico never existed. Marko Stunt is so repellent because he's small... like Spike Dudley and Hornswoggle never existed. Not to mention that is his character he is an annoying little brat who doesnt take it seriously.
> 
> Its like I'm blabbering now but the point is, everyone is fixated on the negatives and I rarely see the specific users every praising anything. Its like a never ending episode of Jim Cornette podcast, but in writing and there are actually 6 Cornettes always shitting on AEW.


No one here talks like that. Everyone can explain their reasoning. Stop misrepresenting people to fit their argument.


----------



## zkorejo

@The Wood Just because they explain their reasoning for hating on, it doesnt mean the reasoning is actually any logical or good. Most of the said arguments are biased, mindless and/or based on assumptions.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> I wont name users and quote them as I dont like to get in that kind of shitstorm over here but the last two weeks have been totally annoying to read the most comments. I always knew wrestling fans can be entitled and shortsighted but every thread was full of negatives.
> 
> For example, in the Dynamite discussion, the big story angle the show did was Omega/FTR/Bucks yet it wasnt even mentioned or discussed in most reader reviews. But you see everyone and their mothers shitting on *Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt. Both were in midcard random matches, not like they mainevented.*


This same talking point was said about Orange Cassidy until he was in the main event and working opposite the company’s biggest star. And then it was that it is just one short mini-feud. Just like it was QT Marshall wasn’t getting a push. Then it was “Well, it isn’t like QT Marshall is getting a title match”, then two weeks later he and 50+ year old Dustin Rhodes are in a tag title match where Omega and Page have to sell for QT fucking Marshall.

I mean, “best wrestler in the world”/tag team champion/future world champion Kenny Omega just had to sell for Marko fucking Stunt.



> I remember when this place had more people around on Raw section. I enjoyed the discussions there when I used to watch Raw weekly, even when the show was mediocre because the people there didnt come across like they had an agenda.
> 
> That is not the case here. Example:
> 
> TK talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!", Jericho talks ratings "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Cody says he doesnt want to talk about ratings and its still "OmGz h3 Suck5!" Okay.


Khan has way too much money and responsibilities to be wasting his time with internet trolls wanting their moment of fame for shitting on TK and AEW. Jericho has been on TV with ratings way too high and is WAY too big a star to be using demos as a way to justify his greatness.

As for Cody, like everything else with the guy, he would be championing the ratings if such talk suited him. He didn’t care to mock WWE’s UK deal, smashing the throne, etc until the Internet community pointed their finger at him and the jokes came his way.



> Sonny Kiss should not be allowed in the arena because his/her ass is out. That's unheard of, I'm pretty sure Orlando Jordan, Billy Gunn and Rico never existed.


Sonny Kiss’s ass hanging out would be overlooked if he sold the notion that he was genuinely trying to win the match and had intensity/anger and was wanting to hurt his opponent in order to pick up the W.



> Marko Stunt is so repellent because he's small... like Spike Dudley and Hornswoggle never existed.


Just because WWE does dumb shit, doesn’t mean AEW should do dumb shit. I thought we wanted something different?



> Not to mention that is his character he is an annoying little brat who doesnt take it seriously.


 Who in the last 3-4 months has forced monster-sized men, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer, along with the Best Wrestler in the World, Kenny Omega, to sell his weak punches and kicks.



> Its like I'm blabbering now but the point is, everyone is fixated on the negatives and I rarely see the specific users every praising anything. Its like a never ending episode of Jim Cornette podcast, but in writing and there are actually 6 Cornettes always shitting on AEW.


Then you’re letting the criticisms stand out too much in your mind. Most weeks Cult, Chip, Lheurch, Hammerstone, myself, and whoever else you’re hinting at give a breakdown of things we liked and things we disliked. It isn’t our fault that everyone jumps on the negatives and wants to discuss them ad nauseum vs wanting to expand upon the positives.

@NXT Only was shocked to find that we agreed on how great commentary was this week. Trust me, we are totally willing to discuss and expand upon the positives as well. And we’d do it even more often if AEW didn’t constantly give us one awesome thing, such as the commentary or Kenny’s treacherous side, and turn around the next minute by having something stupid like Sonny Kiss in a title match where he clearly isn’t painting the picture of a man trying to win a championship and all the extra money and fame and glory that goes with it.

Hell, I think even one of the “negative Nancy’s” suggested if you’re going all-in on a character like Kiss, they’d prefer going all in with him and having him win some meaningful matches to the point he’s pulling men out of the audience as if his fame and star power dragged them out of their seat.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> No one here talks like that. Everyone can explain their reasoning. Stop misrepresenting people to fit their argument.


By the way, fuck you. You ain’t getting shit from me, pal. I forgot UFC was on last night. Otherwise, NXT and AEW would have took a shit on Raw.

LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!!! Haha


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> This same talking point was said about Orange Cassidy until he was in the main event and working opposite the company’s biggest star. And then it was that it is just one short mini-feud. Just like it was QT Marshall wasn’t getting a push. Then it was “Well, it isn’t like QT Marshall is getting a title match”, then two weeks later he and 50+ year old Dustin Rhodes are in a tag title match where Omega and Page have to sell for QT fucking Marshall.
> 
> I mean, “best wrestler in the world”/tag team champion/future world champion Kenny Omega just had to sell for Marko fucking Stunt.
> 
> 
> 
> Khan has way too much money and responsibilities to be wasting his time with internet trolls wanting their moment of fame for shitting on TK and AEW. Jericho has been on TV with ratings way too high and is WAY too big a star to be using demos as a way to justify his greatness.
> 
> As for Cody, like everything else with the guy, he would be championing the ratings if such talk suited him. He didn’t care to mock WWE’s UK deal, smashing the throne, etc until the Internet community pointed their finger at him and the jokes came his way.
> 
> 
> Sonny Kiss’s ass hanging out would be overlooked if he sold the notion that he was genuinely trying to win the match and had intensity/anger and was wanting to hurt his opponent in order to pick up the W.
> 
> 
> Just because WWE does dumb shit, doesn’t mean AEW should do dumb shit. I thought we wanted something different?
> 
> Who in the last 3-4 months has forced monster-sized men, Brodie Lee and Lance Archer, along with the Best Wrestler in the World, Kenny Omega, to sell his weak punches and kicks.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you’re letting the criticisms stand out too much in your mind. Most weeks Cult, Chip, Lheurch, Hammerstone, myself, and whoever else you’re hinting at give a breakdown of things we liked and things we disliked. It isn’t our fault that everyone jumps on the negatives and wants to discuss them as nauseum vs wanting to expand upon the positives.
> 
> @NXT Only was shocked to find that we agreed on how great commentary was this week. Trust me, we are totally willing to discuss and expand upon the positives as well. And we’d do it even more often if AEW didn’t constantly give us one awesome thing, such as the commentary or Kenny’s treacherous side, and turn around the next minute by having something stupid like Sonny Kiss in a title match where he clearly isn’t painting the picture of a man trying to win a championship and all the extra money and fame and glory that goes with it.
> 
> Hell, I think even one of the “negative Nancy’s” suggested if you’re going all-in on a character like Kiss, they’d prefer going all in with him and having him win some meaningful matches to the point he’s pulling men out of the audience as if his fame and star power dragged them out of their seat.


I am just as uninterested in QT as the next guy, but its clear they are using QT as a loser that Allie is using to get in the head of Nightmare Family. QT isnt the star they are trying to build here, its Allie. As for QT and Dustin vs Tag champs, well they are on their roster and one match with tag champs that they lost didnt hurt anyone.

Kenny had to sell for Stunt.. Yes. Is that all that you take from that encounter? Did you not understand the entire story they were trying to tell here? Kenny Omega was super pissed at FTR and just was not into the match. He tried to big league Stunt, Omega wasnt focused, he was clearly in arrogant "I am the fuckin best and you want a piece of me" so much so, he didnt even take his shirt off. Stunt capitalized on that arrogance a few times and thats when he started taking the match seriously. Did you see that V Trigger on Stunt? Then he tried to bash his head in because Stunt further embarrassed an already embarrassed Omega. Seeds for heel turn. Storytelling. How does it make him look bad?

As for Orange Cassidy, he is over with the fans and I'm sure the feud with Jericho makes sense for them business-wise. They are running a business there, they have all the metrics. Maybe he is profitable to them with merch and they want to further improve it by giving him something better than just standing there? I dont know, neither do you guys so we should all stop pretending like we do and shit on them for doing things we dont understand.

I agree with the point that Tony Khan shouldn't engage in twitter wars over ratings, but just because I think he shouldn't doesnt mean that if he does then he sucks. Have you seen Dana White on twitter? We can disagree with his stance but its nothing unheard of.

Jericho is always working the smarks and this is no different.

Did you see the Sonny Kiss vs Cody? Sonny was serious bell to bell. He gave it his all and for a Dark competitor, it was a solid match. They told a story here and it worked out. Cody was taking it lightly and Arn pointed it out. As announcers also made it obvious, Cody's open challenge is probably starting to get to him. He seemed very frustrated during the match because he was expecting an easy day at the job.

Yes, I am not saying dumb shit is justified just because WWE does it, point is wrestling will always be rehashed. With the talent on their roster, they have to try different things with everyone to see what works and what doesnt. Comedic characters like Marko are okay to have. As long as they are not treated like they are Brock Lesnar or Goldberg.

Yeah see thats the thing. There is a sea of negativity and then one sentence of a praise that falls in line with what they like.


----------



## The Wood

Why do people need to like AEW or think it’s good though? That’s where I get confused. You make it sound like people’s jobs to go out of their way to make excuses for things they don’t like or think are beneficial.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

$Dolladrew$ said:


> It's funny how people were saying this was a weak "special event" show but yet now its supposed to won because it was a special lol.





optikk sucks said:


> NXT WAS A NORMAL SHOW. THERE WASN'T NOTHING GOING ON.
> 
> AEW HAD SPECIAL.





optikk sucks said:


> LISTEN
> 
> NXT WAS JUST A NORMAL SHOW. CLEARLY NO COUNTER BOOKING.
> 
> 
> BRIAN CAGE VS MOXLEY WORLD TITLE MATCH


----------



## zkorejo

World would be a boring place if everyone agreed. I love arguments and disagreements as long as its not mindless hatred. Its okay to not like something with your reasoning, but one should always keep an open mind that they may be wrong or that maybe just maybe, the product is just not for them. I stopped watching Impact and then stopped watching Raw because it wasn't for me.

I am not telling anyone to stop watching AEW. But if you find absolutely nothing good about it.. Idk why you're wasting your time.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> World would be a boring place if everyone agreed. I love arguments and disagreements as long as its not mindless hatred. Its okay to not like something with your reasoning, but one should always keep an open mind that they may be wrong or that maybe just maybe, the product is just not for them. I stopped watching Impact and then stopped watching Raw because it wasn't for me.
> 
> I am not telling anyone to stop watching AEW. But if you find absolutely nothing good about it.. Idk why you're wasting your time.


And that’s why they’ve lost roughly half their live audience.


----------



## bdon

I absolutely disagree on Sonny looking like someone who was genuinely trying to fight and win the match. The offense was slow, lacked urgency, and soft as hell. Cody isn’t the best bell-to-belllllll wrestler in the world, no matter how much he wants you to believe that, but even he was dragged down in the match.


----------



## zkorejo

The Wood said:


> And that’s why they’ve lost roughly half their live audience.


Yet they are profitable after just 1 year of existence. 

Besides, correct me if I am wrong but the 1.4 mil viewers was just the first episode after a heavy promotion and marketing. I dont think they pulled that number regularly for us to say "lost half their viewers".


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> Yet they are profitable after just 1 year of existence.
> 
> Besides, correct me if I am wrong but the 1.4 mil viewers was just the first episode after a heavy promotion and marketing. I dont think they pulled that number regularly for us to say "lost half their viewers".


When you have a $100 million investment, the least you could expect is to be profitable. 

They tuned in to see wrestling, and they tuned out because they didn’t like it. There’s no further analysis needed.


----------



## zkorejo

The Wood said:


> When you have a $100 million investment, the least you could expect is to be profitable.
> 
> They tuned in to see wrestling, and *they tuned out because they didn’t like it*. There’s no further analysis needed.


And that's how it works. Businesses care about numbers only. Vote with your wallet. Wrestling fans just dont understand that or in WWE's case are too loyal and addicted.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> And that's how it works. Businesses care about numbers only. Vote with your wallet. Wrestling fans just dont understand that or in WWE's case are too loyal and addicted.


People are tuning out. Of both products.


----------



## zkorejo

Yet both companies are better off financially compared to the previous year. Vince wont change shit unless he starts losing money and AEW will continue doing their stuff (most of which I actually like) unless they are threatened with losses. Its that simple.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

zkorejo said:


> And that's how it works. Businesses care about numbers only. Vote with your wallet. Wrestling fans just dont understand that or in WWE's case are too loyal and addicted.


not true. businesses will read wrestlingforum and base their booking on the feedback. this is what @bdon likes to remind us - that everything he mentions on this forum gets put on TV.

lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> not true. businesses will read wrestlingforum and base their booking on the feedback. this is what @bdon likes to remind us - that everything he mentions on this forum gets put on TV.
> 
> lmao


TK is in this very thread...... not at his football club.... or his football club or his wrestling league..... or his stats company

I can believe Brandon Cutler is here somewhere though

@prosperwithdeen - you Cutler brah?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK is in this very thread...... not at his football club.... or his football club or his wrestling league..... or his stats company
> 
> I can believe Brandon Cutler is here somewhere though
> 
> @prosperwithdeen - you Cutler brah?


Prosper is cutler
Korejo is QT
You must be Nakazawa
And I gotta be Kiss

I wonder who Tk is, @Garty ?


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> I love how you're backtracking now that ypu got proven wrong and is resorting to "was the 1.4 million sustainable"?
> 
> That is how analyze data. You take the premiere episode and look at the average since then to see if theres an increase or a decrease and clearly theres been a decrease since Dynamite's debut. Except NXT was on head to head with Dynamite when it had 1.4 million viewers so you just lied and not to mention NXT is a developmental so thats not an excuse for why they've lost their audience in record time. You do know streaming viewers are only a couple thousand people right? I can show you that as well that streaming numbers aren't big.
> 
> Thats how you analyze data you take the dirst episode and then take the average afterwards to gauge interest.
> 
> Here you go
> 
> 2019 911k
> 
> Pre-pandemic 884k
> 
> During pandemic
> 
> 777,000 viewers which is a 47% drop since the premiere. Thats how you analyze data NOT your flawed logic of "analyzing" it.


How are you comparing average viewership to a single nights viewership? 

911K to 777K IS NOT 47%


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Why do people need to like AEW or think it’s good though? That’s where I get confused. You make it sound like people’s jobs to go out of their way to make excuses for things they don’t like or think are beneficial.


Lol. Your lack of self awareness is amazing.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Lol. Your lack of self awareness is amazing.


Again, the irony.

Make an actual point.


----------



## Not Lying

For those interested in the breakdown


QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox

The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284010112953221127


----------



## NXT Only

Moxley/Cage at 844K is insane. 

Start of the show(this is fans knowing the card in advance)- 826K
Top of the 2nd hour- 791K
Finish- 844K


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Again, the irony.
> 
> Make an actual point.


Why do people have to think AEW is bad?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Marko Stunt is a draw 😂


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Why do people have to think AEW is bad?


If they think it’s bad, they’re allowed to verbalise and it explain why. They don’t owe it to the promotion to lie.

Pretty much every segment dropped except the main event. Not too surprising there. The freak show tag grew too, which is more of that car crash sort of stuff. It doesn’t mean people thought it was good or that it can be main event level stuff.

This promotion is basically running on Moxley fumes.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> If they think it’s bad, they’re allowed to verbalise and it explain why. They don’t owe it to the promotion to lie.
> 
> Pretty much every segment dropped except the main event. Not too surprising there. The freak show tag grew too, which is more of that car crash sort of stuff. It doesn’t mean people thought it was good or that it can be main event level stuff.
> 
> This promotion is basically running on Moxley fumes.


But if they thinks it’s good they’re an AEW Superfan. It seems like you get to have an opinion and unless people agree with you then they’re wrong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I wonder who Tk is, @Garty ?


The Definition of Technician said:


> For those interested in the breakdown
> 
> 
> QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox
> 
> The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


yoooooooooooooo


----------



## The Wood

ProjectGargano said:


> Marko Stunt is a draw 😂


That is the same shit people said about Orange Cassidy and he tanked. People waiting for the main event are going to try and stick around, plus you have a bit of traffic coming in to laugh at the silly wrestling. That’s why you get massive drop-offs. It only appeals to people who hate wrestling and cannot believe how bad it’s gotten.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> But if they thinks it’s good they’re an AEW Superfan. It seems like you get to have an opinion and unless people agree with you then they’re wrong.


That’s completely made up. bdon likes AEW, Rap likes AEW, Chip likes some of what they do, Cult likes about half of it. They’re not super fans. You’re a super fan when you push away reality.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT Only said:


> But if they thinks it’s good they’re an AEW Superfan. It seems like you get to have an opinion and unless people agree with you then they’re wrong.


The funny thing is a portion of us get called AEW super fans but have criticised shows lmao.

apparently being optimistic and not calling the end of AEW makes us super fans. That and not thinking our opinion is a fact. the overly negative fans continue to embarrass themselves every day.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> The funny thing is a portion of us get called AEW super fans but have criticised shows lmao.
> 
> apparently being optimistic and not calling the end of AEW makes us super fans. That and not thinking our opinion is a fact. the overly negative fans continue to embarrass themselves every day.


You literally come on here and say that your opinion is unbiased and you’ve got a business mind and don’t let subjectivity cloud it. I wouldn’t be throwing stones in glass houses.

I can admit I’m wrong — it just turns out I haven’t been wrong about much. This is only going to get more fun.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wednesday Night Warrior. The Flamboyant Fighter Sonny Kiss = ratings.

The Scrappy Shorty Marko Stunt = ratings

you LOVE to see it.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> That’s completely made up. bdon likes AEW, Rap likes AEW, Chip likes some of what they do, Cult likes about half of it. They’re not super fans. You’re a super fan when you push away reality.


Who’s reality? Yours.

We’ve all critiqued the show but because we don’t make endless posts about it we’re superfans.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Moxley vs Stunt at All Out is the way to go.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Marko Stunt's match handily beat Kieth Lee Double Title Defense against his most famous feud LMFAO

It's funny how some shitted on Jericho and OC like crazy when they lost to Lee and Adam Cole in a title unification match(still beating them in 18-49), but now those same people are silent.

Nah, Marko Stunt just draws cause he's a freak wrestler and because of that people preferred to watch his match than the top star of the other brand in a double title defense LMFAO


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

And even funnier is when people say “Moxley is back so he drew”. all this time they’ve been saying “Moxley is not a draw; he’s overrated; he’s not good enough to be world champion”

there’s always an excuse.

There’s also Delusions of grandeur going on on the forum - “I can book better than Tony Khan; pay me money and I’ll do it for you” lmao embarrassing.

half these idiots on block because of their insistence on their opinions being corrext. And that AEW is dying and blah blah shut the hell up lol


----------



## thorn123

I didn’t realise people flip channels so much ... I’d rather watch a show fully, then watch the second show fully, rather than bits and pieces of both. Same as fast forwarding segments without giving them a chance. 

Whilst weekly fluctuations don’t mean as much as long term trends, I am glad dynamite viewership increased this week.


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> For those interested in the breakdown
> 
> 
> QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox
> 
> The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


FTR vs Lucha Bros lost that Many people? What the hell? That match was awesome. Dont know what happened there.

Moxley and Cage drew big time though.


----------



## rbl85

Since they are with AEW, FTR never really been doing good in the ratings.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> FTR vs Lucha Bros lost that Many people? What the hell? That match was awesome. Dont know what happened there.
> 
> Moxley and Cage drew big time though.


What's interesting is that 110k+ combined tuned out completely from both shows at that time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Prosper is cutler
> Korejo is QT
> You must be Nakazawa
> And I gotta be Kiss
> 
> I wonder who Tk is, @Garty ?


LOL! If i was anybody, i definitely would be Nakazawa  

Garty talks as much as TK


----------



## Erik.

In 5 episodes time, AEW will have done more empty arena shows than regular episodes of Dynamite.

What a shame - can't wait for crowds to be back.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> For those interested in the breakdown
> 
> 
> QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox
> 
> The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


Kiss getting that sweet starting number. Best they’ve started with in awhile


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> For those interested in the breakdown
> 
> 
> QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox
> 
> The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


the OC / Jericho one is funny]
you literally see the over 50s switching to NXT and the young people wanting that sweet OC


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> What's interesting is that 110k+ combined tuned out completely from both shows at that time.


i am guessing finals of MTV Challenge and finale of Housewives had something to do with that

people like to see ‘who’s won’


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> What's interesting is that 110k+ combined tuned out completely from both shows at that time.


Yeah I noticed that as well, I guess there was something else on that took all of their attention because even the NXT Grimes match wasn’t that bad. Maybe Nascar or the MTV stuff? Or maybe the live cable audience flat out just wasn’t interested in either match lol.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Definition of Technician said:


> For those interested in the breakdown
> 
> 
> QAEW SegmentTotal18-4918-49TotalNXT Segment1Cody vs Sonny826k374k208k693kKeith Lee promo2Lucha Bros vs FTR788k _(-38k)_380k _(+6k)_175k _(-33k)_620k _(-73k)_Grimes vs Priest3End of Lucha Bros vs FTR766k _(-22k)_372k _(-8k)_196k _(+21k)_625k _(+5k)_Shotzi vs Indi4Jericho/Cassidy angle765k _(-1k)_376k _(+4k)_192k _(-4k)_602k _(-23k)_Nox interview, Lee vs Dijak5Elite vs Jurassic Express791k _(+26k)_378k _(+2k)_179k _(-13k)_608k _(+6k)_End of Lee vs Dijak6Shida/Mox interviews, Brandi/Allie743k _(-48k)_373k _(-5k)_179k _(-0-)_641k _(+33k)_Dijak/Kross, Thatcher vs Denzel7Nyla/Vickie, Moxley vs Cage780k _(+37k)_380k _(+7k)_175k _(-4k)_610k _(-31k)_Stone/Dain, Shirai vs Nox8End of Moxley vs Cage844k _(+64k)_407k _(+27k)_186k _(+11k)_652k _(+42k)_End of Shirai vs Nox
> 
> The Demo God losing 1k old fucks and gaining 4 young studs.


Jon "Money" Moxley.

I think we can expect a long title reign from him. It's clear that the company would be in trouble without him. Many Dynamite viewers would be watching NXT instead if he wasn't on the roster.

Though I would still like to see MJF win it at All Out, and then continue the feud over the next couple of PPVs. That way you still keep Moxley in the main event, but you build up a super talented heel in the process.


----------



## Aedubya

LifeInCattleClass said:


> next week is not live unfortunately


Did they film a whole batch on Wednesday night?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

@Aedubya they tape every other week.











someone has graphed the quarters. bottom is key demo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Jon Moxley - the real Demo God.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> Did they film a whole batch on Wednesday night?


yep, they do 2 weeks a wed.

on one BTE they basically said DARK is taped until 1 in the morning

its crazy


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> @Aedubya they tape every other week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone has graphed the quarters. bottom is key demo.


Sonny Ratings Kiss and Marko ratings Stunt helping RatingsMox for the win


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sonny Ratings Kiss and Marko ratings Stunt helping RatingsMox for the win


Wednesday Night Warriors winning the battle.

I think Cage is going to be a big draw for AEW btw. Him and Taz with that FTW championship. Exciting times ahead for AEW.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> How are you comparing average viewership to a single nights viewership?
> 
> 911K to 777K IS NOT 47%


Except thats how you do averages. Im sorry you don't know how to average things out and how averages work.

Its lost the most viewers and rating in record time than any other company.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Erik. said:


> In 5 episodes time, AEW will have done more empty arena shows than regular episodes of Dynamite.
> 
> What a shame - can't wait for crowds to be back.


That's actually fucking depressing to think about. God damn it, we had it so good from the beginning of the year until Revolution, probably my favorite stretch of wrestling programming in I don't know how the fuck long.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> @Aedubya they tape every other week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone has graphed the quarters. bottom is key demo.


Very nice to see the consistency in the demo, nice spike for Moxley/Cage. Would like to see Moxley on TV pretty regularly, the fact they haven't announced him for next week is worrisome. Time to put some steam on Moxley/MJF


----------



## 304418

Jericho got the second least watched segment of the evening in terms of total viewers. Only women’s tag was worse, and that was probably because it was obviously going to be a squash match. The audience made no effort (pun intended) to watch a Jericho segment.

Maybe he should work with Kiss or Marko instead since they drew bigger numbers in total viewers. And in Marko's case the 18-49 that Jericho crows about so much. It wasn't like there was much difference in the 18-49 demo for Jericho and Kiss that night.


----------



## sweepdaleg

That opening match number smh. I think there was a UFC card Wednesday too. Maybe that affected both shows.


----------



## Aedubya

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yep, they do 2 weeks a wed.
> 
> on one BTE they basically said DARK is taped until 1 in the morning
> 
> its crazy


Thanks


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

optikk sucks said:


> And even funnier is when people say “Moxley is back so he drew”. all this time they’ve been saying “Moxley is not a draw; he’s overrated; he’s not good enough to be world champion”
> 
> there’s always an excuse.
> 
> There’s also Delusions of grandeur going on on the forum - “I can book better than Tony Khan; pay me money and I’ll do it for you” lmao embarrassing.
> 
> half these idiots on block because of their insistence on their opinions being corrext. And that AEW is dying and blah blah shut the hell up lol


This is so true. The delusional arrogance really be jumping out. It's hilarious.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> That's actually fucking depressing to think about. God damn it, we had it so good from the beginning of the year until Revolution, probably my favorite stretch of wrestling programming in I don't know how the fuck long.


Things were so awesome man I felt the same way, wrestling was finally back and in great form, then COVID was like "FUCK YOUR WRESTLING AND FUCK YOUR WORLD!" lol


----------



## Chan Hung

Moxley helped out as i figured.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> not true. businesses will read wrestlingforum and base their booking on the feedback. this is what @bdon likes to remind us - that everything he mentions on this forum gets put on TV.
> 
> lmao


You're right, it's just pure coincidence that bdon wrote about a teddy bear shooting lasers from his eyes and they did it literally 4-5 days later on Be The Elite in a skit.

Or me bringing up how they should do more vignettes showing who the characters are and what they're all about only for them to start doing that.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK is in this very thread...... not at his football club.... or his football club or his wrestling league..... or his stats company
> 
> I can believe Brandon Cutler is here somewhere though
> 
> @prosperwithdeen - you Cutler brah?


I don't know if Tony himself is here but he'd be a fucking idiot if his people weren't. I always make the argument of "You never know who is who on this forum". I guarantee WWE, AEW, Impact, NJPW and everyone else read these forums for feedback on what they're doing.



optikk sucks said:


> There’s also Delusions of grandeur going on on the forum - “I can book better than Tony Khan; pay me money and I’ll do it for you” lmao embarrassing.
> 
> half these idiots on block because of their insistence on their opinions being corrext. And that AEW is dying and blah blah shut the hell up lol


Tag me next time. You love stats here is a stat for you:

People who think I wrote a better episode of Dynamite than AEW did: 61.3%

People who think AEW wrote better than me: 38.7% (Majority are people who don't like me who probably didn't even read although admittedly a few people did genuinely bring up good points which is fine and welcomed)

Two people openly admitted that they voted no because they don't like me either so the stats are actually higher. Quite a few of the more sensible AEW fans even gave me the nod in that thread.

Me writing AEW for real was clearly us kidding around but yeah, lets try and paint it as us being serious.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Things were so awesome man I felt the same way, wrestling was finally back and in great form, then COVID was like "FUCK YOUR WRESTLING AND FUCK YOUR WORLD!" lol


The day we have full crowds with Wrestling is going to be so insane, like at least we are going to be so much more appreciative of what he have.

If I'm AEW, I prep up a super card for the first show with a full crowd, way to really get the ball rolling on TV, maybe not blood and guts, but a big show nonetheless.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The day we have full crowds with Wrestling is going to be so insane, like at least we are going to be so much more appreciative of what he have.
> 
> If I'm AEW, I prep up a super card for the first show with a full crowd, way to really get the ball rolling on TV, maybe not blood and guts, but a big show nonetheless.


I agree, and I think Blood and Guts would actually be the best move for that first big show. Fans were already hyped for it as the arena sold out in record time for that particular show. It'll be more justified and storyline driven this time around with all the heel turns coming. The first time around they just wanted to do something crazy on TV, this time they can actually build to it.

Blood and Guts can easily be all about the Elite power struggle now. Omega, Cody, and the Bucks vs Hangman Page, FTR and Moxley sounds good to me and actually has a good chance of happening. No way that match doesn't do a 1 million+ live rating with proper promotion and build with the comeback of live crowds all at the same time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know if Tony himself is here but *he'd be a fucking idiot if his people weren't. *I always make the argument of "You never know who is who on this forum". I guarantee WWE, AEW, Impact, NJPW and everyone else read these forums for feedback on what they're doing.


you always think ABC is an idiot if XYZ doesn’t happen

it loses its punch after a bit


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> Except thats how you do averages. Im sorry you don't know how to average things out and how averages work.
> 
> Its lost the most viewers and rating in record time than any other company.


It didn't and you and others continuing to post that doesn't make it true. 

TNT would not have extended them if they lost the most viewers and ratings in record time.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> It didn't and you and others continuing to post that doesn't make it true.
> 
> TNT would not have extended them if they lost the most viewers and ratings in record time.


Actually it did. No other company in history has lost 42% of its viewers and 58% of its rating within 9 months like AEW has. Thats a fact that anyone can look up.

1.4 million to 777,000 loss of of what 42% viewers? 0.68 rating to 0.27 rating loss of 58% of ratings. Yeah you're dismissed now.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> Actually it did. No other company in history has lost 42% of its viewers and 58% of its rating within 9 months like AEW has. Thats a fact that anyone can look up.
> 
> 1.4 million to 777,000 loss of of what 42% viewers? 0.68 rating to 0.27 rating loss of 58% of ratings. Yeah you're dismissed now.


Their average audience was never 1.4M, you keep saying that and it isn't true.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> Their average audience was never 1.4M, you keep saying that and it isn't true.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. They STARTED with 1.4 million and has dropped to 777,000 viewers on average. I never said 1.4 million is what they averaged.


----------



## taker1986

Moxley/Cage match currently has 845k views on YouTube, which despite being on 2 days later is higher than any Raw segment this week. Rollins/KO has 743k views.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

taker1986 said:


> Moxley/Cage match currently has 845k views on YouTube, which despite being on 2 days later is higher than any Raw segment this week. Rollins/KO has 743k views.


That's actually insane given WWE has like 50 million subscribers on YT while AEW has like 1.5


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. They STARTED with 1.4 million and has dropped to 777,000 viewers on average. I never said 1.4 million is what they averaged.


You're comparing their premier show to an average. 

How many shows are you averaging?(Last 10, 12, 20?)

They averaged 911K in the first quarter as a show(Q4 2019) and the beginning of this quarter(Q3 2020) they're averaging 750K(so far)

You also aren't accounting for the amount variables involved, again you dont know how to analyze or chart data.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> You're comparing their premier show to an average.
> 
> How many shows are you averaging?(Last 10, 12, 20?)
> 
> They averaged 911K in the first quarter as a show(Q4 2019) and the beginning of this quarter(Q3 2020) they're averaging 750K(so far)
> 
> You also aren't accounting for the amount variables involved, again you dont know how to analyze or chart data.


Which is how you're SUPPOSED to do it, because thats how you gauge interest to see if interest went down or increased.

Lol they averaged 911k viewers in 2019

884k viewers in early 2020

777k viewers since then 

You don't know how to average because you don't know math.


----------



## zkorejo

NXT Only said:


> You're comparing their premier show to an average.
> 
> How many shows are you averaging?(Last 10, 12, 20?)
> 
> They averaged 911K in the first quarter as a show(Q4 2019) and the beginning of this quarter(Q3 2020) they're averaging 750K(so far)
> 
> You also aren't accounting for the amount variables involved, again you dont know how to analyze or chart data.


He 's basically saying he is averaging from the very first episode till now. Not quarterly/semi/bi annually. I think.


----------



## taker1986

RelivingTheShadow said:


> That's actually insane given WWE has like 50 million subscribers on YT while AEW has like 1.5


63 million subs (6th most worldwide) and their highest rated Raw segment still can't clear 1 million after 4 days.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zkorejo said:


> He 's basically saying he is averaging from the very first episode till now. Not quarterly/semi/bi annually. I think.


He knows that hes just trying to spin it in his favor so he can look like hes right when hes wrong.


----------



## Erik.

taker1986 said:


> 63 million subs (6th most worldwide) and their highest rated Raw segment still can't clear 1 million after 4 days.


That's quite something.

I haven't kept up with WWE for years but even back then, most peoples excuses for declining ratings were 'other means of watching' and that 'YouTube numbers are high' - and they can't even clear a million anymore?


----------



## Not Lying

taker1986 said:


> 63 million subs (6th most worldwide) and their highest rated Raw segment still can't clear 1 million after 4 days.


There is clearly a decline in interest in wrestling over the past few months with WWE.
BS like burying The Fiend, no more Lesnar, Reigns and Lynch, and the no-crowd shows suck and feel so robotic.


----------



## Prosper

taker1986 said:


> Moxley/Cage match currently has 845k views on YouTube, which despite being on 2 days later is higher than any Raw segment this week. Rollins/KO has 743k views.


Wow. How does that happen when you have 63 million subscribers to AEW's 1.4 million? Even the Moxley/Cage match preview got over 200K viewers. People were really interested in that match given the Youtube stats and quarterly ratings gains. And that was like the least AEW could do as far as a main event program. It was just Brian Cage. Imagine the stats that are to come with the more hyped main events that have the more established and more popular talent.


----------



## NXT Only

zkorejo said:


> He 's basically saying he is averaging from the very first episode till now. Not quarterly/semi/bi annually. I think.


And that isn't how statistics work. Outliers are disregarded because of the randomness. Think about everything that went in to the first show, the lead up, promotion, intrigue, etc...their initial audience wasn't 1.4M because many just tuned in to see what it was about. Everyone anticipated the drop because premiers always launch like that. Then factor in NXT going live soon and the audience they had control over initially would then be split. Then factor in DVR, on demand, BR Live, illegal streams, etc...and all that data is calculated(at least on AEW's side and TNT's side).

You cant just say their first show they did 1.4M and now they're averaging 777K and think you know what you're talking about. If they had a steady streak of 1.4M for 6 weeks, 12 weeks, 18 weeks and then all of sudden when that same length of time and did 777K then that's a drop in audience you could use.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> He knows that hes just trying to spin it in his favor so he can look like hes right when hes wrong.


No you just dont know how to read numbers.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> No you just dont know how to read numbers.


No you don't know how to do numbers nor do you know how averages work.


----------



## RapShepard

Can someone redo the breakdown chart. It's hard to read at least on taptalk there's no spaces between it


----------



## bdon

@Chip Chipperson, I don’t believe I actually voted on any poll, but you know it was good shit.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> No you don't know how to do numbers nor do you know how averages work.


How many viewers did Dynamite have on 7/15?


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> How many viewers did Dynamite have on 7/15?


788k viewers so your comment means nothing.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> 788k viewers so your comment means nothing.


Actually they did 844K since Moxley/Cage did that number and it was the highest Quarter. 

Oh wait no, viewership is actually averaged out Quarter to Quarter not take the highest number and then divide the rest.

You proved my point kid.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> Actually they did 844K since Moxley/Cage did that number and it was the highest Quarter.
> 
> Oh wait no, viewership is actually averaged out Quarter to Quarter not take the highest number and then divide the rest.
> 
> You proved my point kid.


Here you go since you don't know math and look like a complete fool 

Dynamite 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating

10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating

10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating

10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating

10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating

11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating

11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating

11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating

11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating

12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating

12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating

12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Dynamite's average viewership in 2019 was 911,000 viewers and 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating

1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating

1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating

2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating

2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating

2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating

2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating

3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Pre-pandemic average viewership is 884,000 viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% drop in viewership and 15% drop in rating

Pandemic
3/18/20 932,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating

4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating

4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating

4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27

5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating

5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating

5/20/20 701,000 viewers 0.26 rating

5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating

6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating

6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating

6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating

6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating

7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating

7/8/20 715,000 viewers 0.28 rating

7/15/20 788,000 viewers 0.29 rating

Thats an average of 777,000 viewers. Learn how math works kid.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Can someone redo the breakdown chart. It's hard to read at least on taptalk there's no spaces between it


there you go



> Dynamite was up 10.2% in total viewers and 4.4% in 18-49. It won every key demo, although women 35-49 was close. It had 70,000 in men 18-34 (down 21.3%), 52,000 in women 18-34 (up 23.8%), 191,000 in males 35-49 (up 17.9%) and 67,000 in women 35-49 (down 5.6%). NXT, meanwhile, was down 16.9% in total viewers and down 29% in the demo. It had 6,000 in men 18-34 (down 87.2%), 29,000 in women 18-34 (down 12.1%), 86,000 in men 35-49 (down 27.1%) and 65,000 in women 35-49 (up 1.6%).
> 
> Here’s a quarter by quarter breakdown for AEW:
> 
> Q1: Cody vs. Sonny Kiss – 826,000 viewers, 374,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Lucha Bros vs. FTR – 788,000 viewers (down 38,000), 380,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
> Q3: End of Lucha Bros vs. FTR/Segment with FTR & The Elite – 766,000 viewers (down 22,000), 372,000 in 18-49 (down 8,000)
> Q4: Chris Jericho interview/angle with Orange Cassidy – 765,000 viewers (down 1,000), 376,000 in 18-49 (up 4,000)
> Q5: The Elite vs. Jurassic Express – 791,000 viewers (up 26,000), 378,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
> Q6: Hikaru Shida interview/Jon Moxley interview/Allie & Brandi Rhodes vs. MJ Jenkins & Kenzie Paige – 743,000 viewers (down 48,000), 373,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
> Q7: Nyla Rose interview, start of Jon Moxley vs. Brian Cage – 780,000 viewers (up 37,000), 380,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
> Q8: Jon Moxley vs. Brian Cage – 844,000 viewers (up 64,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 27,000)
> 
> And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:
> 
> Q1: Keith Lee promo – 693,000 viewers, 208,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Cameron Grimes vs. Damian Priest – 620,000 viewers (down 73,000), 175,000 in 18-49 (down 33,000)
> Q3: Timothy Thatcher segment/Shotzi Blackheart vs. Indi Hartwell – 625,000 viewers (up 5,000), 196,000 in 18-49 (up 21,000)
> Q4: Tegan Nox interview, start of Keith Lee vs. Dominik Dijakovic – 602,000 viewers (down 23,000), 192,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
> Q5: Keith Lee vs. Dominik Dijakovic – 608,000 viewers (up 6,000), 179,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
> Q6: Dijakovic & Karrion Kross segment/Thatcher vs. Denzel Dejournette – 641,000 viewers (up 33,000), 179,000 in 18-49 (no change)
> Q7: Robert Stone segment, Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox – 610,000 viewers (down 31,000), 175,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
> Q8: Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox – 652,000 viewers (up 42,000), 186,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
> 
> AEW had a 0.14 in 12-17 (up 7.7%), 0.16 in 18-34 (down 6.95), 0.42 in 35-49 (up 15%) and 0.30 in 50+ (up 10%). The audience was 68.7% male in 18-49 and 64.7% male in 12-17. NXT had a 0.06 in 12-17 (down 45.4%), 0.05 in 18-34 (down 56.3%), 0.23 in 35-49 (down 17%) and 0.36 in 50+ (down 7.7%). The audience was 49.5% male in 18-49 and 19.3% male in 12-17.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Who’s reality? Yours.
> 
> We’ve all critiqued the show but because we don’t make endless posts about it we’re superfans.


One that can be backed up with evidence and reason. It isn’t that hard. You all said that’s Orange Cassidy is money. It was reasonable to explain that he is not. Then the evidence proved that he was not. That is reality.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> Marko Stunt's match handily beat Kieth Lee Double Title Defense against his most famous feud LMFAO
> 
> It's funny how some shitted on Jericho and OC like crazy when they lost to Lee and Adam Cole in a title unification match(still beating them in 18-49), but now those same people are silent.
> 
> Nah, Marko Stunt just draws cause he's a freak wrestler and because of that people preferred to watch his match than the top star of the other brand in a double title defense LMFAO


Well this is a loaded post. So are you suggesting a double title defence is a draw or not? You seem to want it both ways. I also don’t know what you mean by Keith Lee’s most famous feud. It’s a very strong use of the word “famous,” and it seems to suggest they have done it lots, which would suggest maintenance booking.

Who is silent? I swear people just make up what they do or don’t want to hear.

Jericho/OC flopped. Marko Stunt would in the main event too. It’s not good that these segments do well lower in the card. I’m willing to bet a lot of that audience is laughing at the wrestling and it’s doing net harm to your perception. But people don’t know how to look past the actual number and just see things like “Marko Stunt is popular! LMAO!” That’s how Vince Russo used to look at numbers. People have reasons for watching things and reasons for tuning out.

The fact that we are talking about Stunt’s involvement in the match highlights how it overshadows and buries everything. You can also see its affect in how effective serious presentations are taken. This shit is bad news. People were right about Orange Cassidy and they are right about Marko Stunt. 



optikk sucks said:


> And even funnier is when people say “Moxley is back so he drew”. all this time they’ve been saying “Moxley is not a draw; he’s overrated; he’s not good enough to be world champion”
> 
> there’s always an excuse.
> 
> There’s also Delusions of grandeur going on on the forum - “I can book better than Tony Khan; pay me money and I’ll do it for you” lmao embarrassing.
> 
> half these idiots on block because of their insistence on their opinions being corrext. And that AEW is dying and blah blah shut the hell up lol


Moxley’s effect on viewership has never been doubted. That doesn’t mean he’s critically effective as champion. Are you okay? Over the past few days you’ve really dipped as a poster. I hope whatever is going on resolves itself soon. This optikk has earned the descriptor “troll.” You really need to check yourself. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> FTR vs Lucha Bros lost that Many people? What the hell? That match was awesome. Dont know what happened there.
> 
> Moxley and Cage drew big time though.


There are lots of reasons. Most glaring is that people don’t care about FTR or the Lucha Bros. And why would you? The Lucha Bros are white noise out there. And FTR have already been made to look like losers.

It’s also detrimental to present comedy and then try and do something serious. It’s jarring and alienating. The comedy caps you and then it makes your serious stuff ineffective. This is why this shit is bad for the industry overall. If someone presents themselves seriously, the backdrop of disingenuous characters makes their attempts seem inherently farcical and even more insulting. FTR need to be in a wrestling promotion, not a sports entertainment one. And even then, professional wrestling, while optimally more effective, is going to struggle when you’ve got a channel that has tiny folk doing poison ranas on giants.

More and more people are coming to the sad conclusion that wrestling is dead. Vince McMahon is going to make fistfuls of cash providing content for the sake of content, but there are less and less people who give a shit about this stuff. Sport is going to hit them. Entropy is going to wear them down. More and more people are going to switch them off.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> the OC / Jericho one is funny]
> you literally see the over 50s switching to NXT and the young people wanting that sweet OC


“Young people.” Citation needed.

A lot of people don’t appreciate just how hardcore this audience is too. And how small it is. Very fun to argue, but when you step back from it all, you do realise you are jumping up and down because of approximately 5k people? That’s not enough to fill a live show. And these people know the thrashing Jericho took. It’s ignored how mobilised this audience is (the most in wrestling history).

AEW getting people to watch out of pity is not ridiculous. Fans have been willing this thing on from the start. This is not like 1998 were the popularity Of WCW and the WWF allowed them to bounce back and forth with millions of viewers to be _earned_. These ratings are going to be less reflective of genuine product engagement and more reflective of online perception.

All In drew a gate for this reason. It wasn’t the Bucks, Omega or Cody that did that. It wasn’t ROH or even New Japan. It was “Not WWE.” That is the biggest obstacle WWE has to overcome.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> there you go


Appreciate it man


----------



## The Wood

I saw someone point out on another forum that the 0.02 in men 12-34 seems “wrong.” They are an AEW advocate, by the way. I never considered it, but losing 90% of that demo does seem very bizarre. Especially when you consider that they only lost 12% of women in the same bracket.

It would be absolutely hilarious if NXT’s numbers were underreported. I’m not saying they are, for the record — but regardless, this number actually does seem quite anomalously low for NXT. If it becomes their pattern, it’s bad, but it may not be a regular thing AEW can count on.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I saw someone point out on another forum that the 0.02 in men 12-34 seems “wrong.” They are an AEW advocate, by the way. I never considered it, but losing 90% of that demo does seem very bizarre. Especially when you consider that they only lost 12% of women in the same bracket.
> 
> It would be absolutely hilarious if NXT’s numbers were underreported. I’m not saying they are, for the record — but regardless, this number actually does seem quite anomalously low for NXT. If it becomes their pattern, it’s bad, but it may not be a regular thing AEW can count on.


Hahaha


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're right, it's just pure coincidence that bdon wrote about a teddy bear shooting lasers from his eyes and they did it literally 4-5 days later on Be The Elite in a skit.
> 
> Or me bringing up how they should do more vignettes showing who the characters are and what they're all about only for them to start doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if Tony himself is here but he'd be a fucking idiot if his people weren't. I always make the argument of "You never know who is who on this forum". I guarantee WWE, AEW, Impact, NJPW and everyone else read these forums for feedback on what they're doing.
> 
> 
> 
> Tag me next time. You love stats here is a stat for you:
> 
> People who think I wrote a better episode of Dynamite than AEW did: 61.3%
> 
> People who think AEW wrote better than me: 38.7% (Majority are people who don't like me who probably didn't even read although admittedly a few people did genuinely bring up good points which is fine and welcomed)
> 
> Two people openly admitted that they voted no because they don't like me either so the stats are actually higher. Quite a few of the more sensible AEW fans even gave me the nod in that thread.
> 
> Me writing AEW for real was clearly us kidding around but yeah, lets try and paint it as us being serious.


You're clearly this era's Bill Watts - you should sue tk for royalties


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Hahaha


You genuinely believe that NXT chased away almost 100% of their 12-34 male audience in a week? Would that be the largest demo drop in wrestling history? 

It may not change viewership, but it could have been reported as a number separate from the 18-39 demo. 6,000 unique viewers in the 12-17 range (still abysmal) with 18-49 being counted completely separate. AEW's 70,000 could be inclusive of the people over 18 up to 34. Take away 10k from that and you've got 60,000. That would leave about 300k in the 18-49 range, which seems in-line with things.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Guys I had no idea that Dynamite also airs on the TNT app. Potentially even more viewers than we think. I know prosper said over a million. But man.


----------



## NXT Only

optikk sucks said:


> Guys I had no idea that Dynamite also airs on the TNT app. Potentially even more viewers than we think. I know prosper said over a million. But man.


Exactly. Live TV is only one source of viewership but haters will continue to use their "declining ratings" to prove their agendas.


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> Here you go since you don't know math and look like a complete fool


Why are you splitting the audience post-pandemic?

Also why are you only comparing the average to their first show and not accounting for multiple variables?

Why are you disregarding DVR, on demand, BR Live, TNT app, FiteTV, streaming numbers?

BECAUSE THEY DONT FIT YOUR NARRATIVE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Guys I had no idea that Dynamite also airs on the TNT app. Potentially even more viewers than we think. I know prosper said over a million. But man.


just a reminder

on the article about MTVs challenge, it said they have 1.6m viewers in live, +3 and +7 - and they didn’t count +24 in that article / and no streaming from what i could see + 1.6 in the demo

Showbuzzdaily says MTV challenge has 900k - so, there is already a 700k difference just with DVR / as well as 0.58 in the demo on showbuzz vs the 1.6 on the article

AEW will be in the same boat - and all the other programs as well obvs

+ then there is streaming

we won’t know the real number until a true article is written about it - but 2 things we know, TNT said 32m (consecutive viewers) in a press release last year

and on BTE they said Colt draws 1.1 vs the 0.29 we see

one day we’ll get a clearer picture / but it is more than the number we see in USA

i mean.... shit doesn’t trend worldwide without viewers, y’know?


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT Only said:


> Why are you splitting the audience post-pandemic?
> 
> Also why are you only comparing the average to their first show and not accounting for multiple variables?
> 
> Why are you disregarding DVR, on demand, BR Live, TNT app, FiteTV, streaming numbers?
> 
> BECAUSE THEY DONT FIT YOUR NARRATIVE.


I didn't "split" the averages I just gave a breakdown on their averages and how its been steadily going down since the premiere episode.

Because again you're supposed to compare the average since the first show. Anyone who knows about the tv industry will tell you thats how it works because thats how you know if the interest decreased or not.

DVR numbers dropped for Dynamite sothats irrelevant and even if they didn't drop they still don't matter since they're being paid for their first run episodes not DVR.


Meanwhile, DVR viewership has went down since the pandemic as well. The May 6th episode had 204,000 additional viewers while DVR for NXT had 140,000. This a huge decrease from before the pandemic.











411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com







Streaming numbers are low across the board 











Streaming still has a long way to go before it catches regular old TV


A new report shows that live and on-demand TV still account for a much larger chunk of TV viewing time than streaming services.




qz.com







But hey continue with your false narratives and lies.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW doesn't have a "core dependable audience" since they've lost 46% of their viewers and 58 of their rating within 9 months which is a record. No other company has tanked as fast as AEW has. AEW will barely be doing 600k within a couple of months from now. The difference is WWE can turn it around since its the biggest company in the industry. The same can't be said for AEW.


Why are you comparing AEW's premiere show, to the rest of their show? Are you also comparing the night Raw did 5 million viewers for Raw 1000, and now they've lost 80% of that audience. People like you and The Wood must be on Vince's payroll.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Randy Lahey said:


> Why are you comparing AEW's premiere show, to the rest of their show? Are you also comparing the night Raw did 5 million viewers for Raw 1000, and now they've lost 80% of that audience. People like you and The Wood must be on Vince's payroll.


Except we're not talking about Raw we're talking about Dynamite. I compared the average and the premiere because thats how networks gauge interest in a ahow to see if interest went down or up.

You and @NXT Only are must be on Tony Khan's payroll.


----------



## Peerless

I wonder how Mox's drawing power would be if it wasn't for COVID. He was gaining +100k viewers for his matches against Ortiz, Santana, and Cobb before his PPV match against Jericho.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ozell Gray said:


> Except we're not talking about Raw we're talking about Dynamite. I compared the average and the premiere because thats how networks gauge interest in a ahow to see if interest went down or up.
> 
> You and @NXT Only are must be on Tony Khan's payroll.


You said no other company has lost viewers like AEW has.

WWE Raw has lost 85% of their viewers since their peak in 1999. 85%. Raw 1000 (in 2012) did over 6 million viewers. They now have 1.5 million watching the show. That's a drop of 75%. If you want to compare drops from peak, nobody beats Raw.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Randy Lahey said:


> You said no other company has lost viewers like AEW has.
> 
> WWE Raw has lost 85% of their viewers since their peak in 1999. 85%. Raw 1000 (in 2012) did over 6 million viewers. They now have 1.5 million watching the show. That's a drop of 75%. If you want to compare drops from peak, nobody beats Raw.


I said no other company has lost the amount of viewers and ratings that AEW has in a SHORT amount of time. They lost their audience within 9 months and WWE lost theirs in years so thats not a comparison you want to go to.


----------



## Garty

Gee, I wonder who you guys are talking to because I don't see anything?! 

The Angry Aussies and their new little mascot, Ozell "Marko Stunt" Gray perhaps? 

Same  Every day. All day.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Garty said:


> Gee, I wonder who you guys are talking to because I don't see anything?!
> 
> The Angry Aussies and their new little mascot, Ozell "Marko Stunt" Gray perhaps?
> 
> Same  Every day. All day.


Your trolling never helps you @Garty. If you can't see who it is then how do you know the names they're arguing with? The funny thing with you is all you do is complain about us since you have no life.


----------



## Ozell Gray

*AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: AEW Dominates, Chris Jericho - Cassidy Notes, Best And Worst Segments*

As previously reported, the _Fight For The Fallen_ episode of _AEW Dynamite_ scored a strong win over WWE _NXT_ this past Wednesday.

_Dynamite_ scored 788,000 viewers (+10% from last week), topping the 631,000 viewers (-17%) garnered by _NXT_ on the USA Network by 25%. It was the best number for _Dynamite_ since the May 27th post-_Double Or Nothing_ episode, which featured an appearance by Mike Tyson and garnered 827,000 viewers. For _NXT_, it was their lowest number since the May 13th episode, and well below the 730,000 viewers they averaged in June.
AEW won every quarter hour in total viewers. The main event featuring AEW Champion Jon Moxley defending his title against Brian Cage was the highest rated quarter with 844,000 viewers, and was the first time in awhile where the main event performed the best. AEW lost viewers throughout the first hour, before finishing strong late in the show. The lowest rated quarter was the sixth with 743,000 viewers, which featured Allie & Brandi Rhodes vs. MJ Jenkins & Kenzie Paige. The second lowest was actually the Chris Jericho - Orange Cassidy segment, which garnered 765,000 viewers.

For NXT, the opening segment with the Keith Lee was the high point in the show with 693,000 viewers. Lee was also in the lowest quarter, which was the fourth that scored 608,000 viewers and featured the start of the Lee vs. Dominik Dijakovic match.
AEW beat _NXT_ by 107% in the 18-49 demo, scoring a 0.29 rating compared to NXT's 0.14. _Dynamite_ ranked #5 in the demo for the night, while _NXT_ came in at #49.

AEW once again won every quarter in 18-49. The Moxley vs. Cage title point was also the high point in the demo with 407,000 viewers, while the end of the FTR vs. Lucha Bros. match was the low with 372,000. The Jericho - Cassidy segment fared better in the demo than in total viewers, as it was the 5th best quarter. Jericho's segments with Cassidy have not been performing as well as Jericho's previous segments, as Jericho would routinely score the best quarters on the show.
The opening segment on _NXT_ with the Keith Lee promo was also the highest rated in 18-49 with 208,000 viewers. The second quarter (Cameron Grimes vs. Damian Priest) and the seventh (Robert Stone segment, start of Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox) were tied for the lowest quarters in the demo with 175,000 viewers.
In addition to ending the three week win streak of WWE _NXT_ in total viewers, AEW won in all the other demos except for 50+, which _NXT_ has dominated. The Male 18-34 demo was insanely one-sided, as AEW topped _NXT_ by 1066%. In that demo, AEW had 70,000 viewers (-21.3% from last week) while _NXT_ had only 6,000 (-87.2%).

Below are the quarter hour breakdowns from both shows, compiled by 411 Mania with data from _The Wrestling Observer Newsletter_.

Q1: Cody vs. Sonny Kiss – 826,000 viewers, 374,000 in 18-49
Q2: Lucha Bros vs. FTR – 788,000 viewers (down 38,000), 380,000 in 18-49 (up 6,000)
Q3: End of Lucha Bros vs. FTR/Segment with FTR & The Elite – 766,000 viewers (down 22,000), 372,000 in 18-49 (down 8,000)
Q4: Chris Jericho interview/angle with Orange Cassidy – 765,000 viewers (down 1,000), 376,000 in 18-49 (up 4,000)
Q5: The Elite vs. Jurassic Express – 791,000 viewers (up 26,000), 378,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
Q6: Hikaru Shida interview/Jon Moxley interview/Allie & Brandi Rhodes vs. MJ Jenkins & Kenzie Paige – 743,000 viewers (down 48,000), 373,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
Q7: Nyla Rose interview, start of Jon Moxley vs. Brian Cage – 780,000 viewers (up 37,000), 380,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
Q8: Jon Moxley vs. Brian Cage – 844,000 viewers (up 64,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 27,000)
*WWE NXT:*
Q1: Keith Lee promo – 693,000 viewers, 208,000 in 18-49
Q2: Cameron Grimes vs. Damian Priest – 620,000 viewers (down 73,000), 175,000 in 18-49 (down 33,000)
Q3: Timothy Thatcher segment/Shotzi Blackheart vs. Indi Hartwell – 625,000 viewers (up 5,000), 196,000 in 18-49 (up 21,000)
Q4: Tegan Nox interview, start of Keith Lee vs. Dominik Dijakovic – 602,000 viewers (down 23,000), 192,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
Q5: Keith Lee vs. Dominik Dijakovic – 608,000 viewers (up 6,000), 179,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q6: Dijakovic & Karrion Kross segment/Thatcher vs. Denzel Dejournette – 641,000 viewers (up 33,000), 179,000 in 18-49 (no change)
Q7: Robert Stone segment, Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox – 610,000 viewers (down 31,000), 175,000 in 18-49 (down 4,000)
Q8: Io Shirai vs. Tegan Nox – 652,000 viewers (up 42,000), 186,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)











AEW Vs. NXT Ratings Details: AEW Dominates, Chris Jericho - Cassidy Notes, Best And Worst Segments


As previously reported, the Fight For The Fallen episode of AEW Dynamite scored a strong win over WWE NXT this past Wednesday.Dynamite scored 788,000 viewers…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Guys I had no idea that Dynamite also airs on the TNT app. Potentially even more viewers than we think. I know prosper said over a million. But man.





NXT Only said:


> Exactly. Live TV is only one source of viewership but haters will continue to use their "declining ratings" to prove their agendas.


This is true of almost every show. Even over here so much of cable is now delivered OTT. This isn’t shocking, revolutionary or something people forget. It’s just not relevant when discussing the live TV ratings.

Should we factor in NXT’s global popularity when discussing its ratings on USA too? You may not like that very much, because it doesn’t “fit your agenda.”



Randy Lahey said:


> You said no other company has lost viewers like AEW has.
> 
> WWE Raw has lost 85% of their viewers since their peak in 1999. 85%. Raw 1000 (in 2012) did over 6 million viewers. They now have 1.5 million watching the show. That's a drop of 75%. If you want to compare drops from peak, nobody beats Raw.


There’s a big difference between 2012 and 2020, let alone 1999 and 2020.


----------



## rbl85

Both show real viewerships are probably higher than 1M


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You genuinely believe that NXT chased away almost 100% of their 12-34 male audience in a week? Would that be the largest demo drop in wrestling history?
> 
> It may not change viewership, but it could have been reported as a number separate from the 18-39 demo. 6,000 unique viewers in the 12-17 range (still abysmal) with 18-49 being counted completely separate. AEW's 70,000 could be inclusive of the people over 18 up to 34. Take away 10k from that and you've got 60,000. That would leave about 300k in the 18-49 range, which seems in-line with things.


Yeah no - that's the figures. But whatever you need to tell yourself


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Both show real viewerships are probably higher than 1M


Funny use of the word "real." Their viewership on live cable is their viewership on live cable. That's real.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you always think ABC is an idiot if XYZ doesn’t happen
> 
> it loses its punch after a bit


You're a bright guy. If you ran a national television show whether that was wrestling or simply a talk show you wouldn't have someone hired to go around the forums, media, social media etc to see what the people are thinking and report back to you?

I know that they are doing this therefore they aren't idiots but they would be if they weren't doing ths.



Pippen94 said:


> You're clearly this era's Bill Watts - you should sue tk for royalties


I know you meant this as an insult but it's actually a compliment. Bill Watts made a shit ton of money and stars during his time as a booker.



The Wood said:


> Should we factor in NXT’s global popularity when discussing its ratings on USA too? You may not like that very much, because it doesn’t “fit your agenda.”


Was at the same club I was at a few weeks ago and NXT was up again on the smaller screen right next to the NRL. I can only assume it's a weekly thing for them.

Didn't see demo god Jericho or pockets though...


----------



## Mister Sinister

My read on the quarter hours for AEW is that Mox brought the viewers. They tuned in at the start, 40k tuned out when the first match happened, they continued to move down through the show until the main event brought 100k eyeballs back. That shows that characters draw. Get Miro, Tessa, Aries, James Storm, EC3 and Goldberg; stop using jobbers, and Dynamite won't sink beneath a million viewers ever despite creative's best attempts at goofiness and lawless tag wrestling. Get some more stars on this show and they might get a chance at 2 million viewers by January.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

So both matches people were saying would surely lose viewers actually didnt???

Marko stunt is a draw folks lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> So both matches people were saying would surely lose performers actually didnt???
> 
> Marko stunt is a draw folks lol


He should go over on Mox.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> He should go over on Mox.


Better yet have him in an iron man match vs Brian Cage.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> So both matches people were saying would surely lose viewers actually didnt???
> 
> Marko stunt is a draw folks lol


This is the same thing people said about Orange Cassidy. Then they got beaten in viewers when they pushed him. People need to think a bit more about what this stuff actually means.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, and Nyla Rose are draw apparently.


----------



## The Wood

Instead of thinking about these numbers as an immediate gauge, AEW would perhaps be better off thinking of them as a simple indicator as to how many people have seen something. At best, they are “expressions of interest” when something is advertised. Let’s say there were folks interested in the Sonny Kiss/Nyla Rose stuff to show community solidarity or whatever. It doesn’t mean they liked what they saw. And for the wrestling fans that are perhaps not as interested in Sonny Kiss’ wrestling, they might grin and bear it in a certain spot. How much bullshit did Attitude era fans wade through because they knew Steve Austin was coming? That doesn’t mean The Godfather should have been the WWF Champion instead of Austin.

Numbers are blank until people start giving them meaning. “Marko Stunt is a draw” is the wrong meaning to give them.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Instead of thinking about these numbers as an immediate gauge, AEW would perhaps be better off thinking of them as a simple indicator as to how many people have seen something. At best, they are “expressions of interest” when something is advertised. Let’s say there were folks interested in the Sonny Kiss/Nyla Rose stuff to show community solidarity or whatever. It doesn’t mean they liked what they saw. And for the wrestling fans that are perhaps not as interested in Sonny Kiss’ wrestling, they might grin and bear it in a certain spot. How much bullshit did Attitude era fans wade through because they knew Steve Austin was coming? That doesn’t mean The Godfather should have been the WWF Champion instead of Austin.
> 
> Numbers are blank until people start giving them meaning. “Marko Stunt is a draw” is the wrong meaning to give them.


Marko stunt vs sonny kiss will shut NXT down lmao


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Instead of thinking about these numbers as an immediate gauge, AEW would perhaps be better off thinking of them as a simple indicator as to how many people have seen something. At best, they are “expressions of interest” when something is advertised. Let’s say there were folks interested in the Sonny Kiss/Nyla Rose stuff to show community solidarity or whatever. It doesn’t mean they liked what they saw. And for the wrestling fans that are perhaps not as interested in Sonny Kiss’ wrestling, they might grin and bear it in a certain spot. How much bullshit did Attitude era fans wade through because they knew Steve Austin was coming? That doesn’t mean The Godfather should have been the WWF Champion instead of Austin.
> 
> Numbers are blank until people start giving them meaning. “Marko Stunt is a draw” is the wrong meaning to give them.


Yep. Your point about the Attitude Era is absolutely salient.

Pretty sure you know how I feel about Raw during that time. I know a lot of Austin and Rock’s story through simple discussion before class at school or my grandma laughing and telling me about “what Austin had done this week”, but I damn sure wasn’t going to be one of them. And that statement rings true for a lot of the fan base that simply disappeared when WCW died.

And yes, children, a lot of us went to school and actually watched as every kind of Middle School clique imaginable would discuss Nitro and Raw, from Cheerleaders to jocks to ******** to nerds. Even my grandmother was watching and wanting “that real life alcoholic Vince McMahon to get his teeth kicked in, look how red his nose is! That’s a sign of alcoholism!!”

Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss are such shit fucking draws that they have the last remaining few of us willing to admit our wrestling fandom and watch, at each other’s throats about why it needs taken off the air.

Would the fucking geeks prefer running off everyone until advertisers are literally only pandering to a 3-400k people that couldn’t set a trend with their own kids, let alone millions?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

#makewrestlingcoolagain


----------



## bdon

And you’re goddamn right that was harsh, but it is the truth. Yeah, it was just one match for Sonny Kiss. Just like it was just one match for Orange fucking Cassidy vs Pac. Just like it is a simple mini-feud for special dynamites with Jericho, except now the motherfucker is in a goddamn legit feud with Jericho and likely to get back his win at All Out.

You have to shut the stupid down or at least understand the rating was a fucking anomaly. Sonny Kiss and Marko Stunt are the same level of fucking stupid that Russo, and the Attitude Era that so many praise, used as logical reason to keep upping the ante until goddamn Mae Young was giving birth to a fucking hand.


----------



## NXT Only

rbl85 said:


> Both show real viewerships are probably higher than 1M


I would assume so, maybe less or more on a given night. AEW peaked at 844K last night so I def think they did over a Million between all sources of viewership which is really good.


----------



## NXT Only

Only counting live TV rating is like only counting physical album sales and disregarding streaming from Apple Music, Spotify and TIDAL. 

Its 2020, catch up.


----------



## bdon

Let wrestling continue to die then, but don’t cry when it isn’t on television to share with your own children in 15 years.


----------



## Pippen94

NXT Only said:


> Only counting live TV rating is like only counting physical album sales and disregarding streaming from Apple Music, Spotify and TIDAL.
> 
> Its 2020, catch up.


That's a great point - music adjusted to this over a decade ago


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> #makewrestlingcoolagain


Aew has youngest average age - go post in raw, smack down & nxt forums


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT Only said:


> Only counting live TV rating is like only counting physical album sales and disregarding streaming from Apple Music, Spotify and TIDAL.
> 
> Its 2020, catch up.


No worries we'll count AEW streaming numbers as soon as you guys count the international viewership and WWE Network numbers for NXT.

I brought up that point months ago about how NXT would be killing it with the international and streaming numbers only to be shouted down by the AEW fans here but when it comes to maybe AEW having a higher rating (Which they would because of streaming) it's suddenly a completely acceptable argument.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Only counting live TV rating is like only counting physical album sales and disregarding streaming from Apple Music, Spotify and TIDAL.
> 
> Its 2020, catch up.


No it’s not. It’s like counting physical album sales when you’re talking about physical album sales. Why is that so hard for people to get?


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> No worries we'll count AEW streaming numbers as soon as you guys count the international viewership and WWE Network numbers for NXT.
> 
> I brought up that point months ago about how NXT would be killing it with the international and streaming numbers only to be shouted down by the AEW fans here but when it comes to maybe AEW having a higher rating (Which they would because of streaming) it's suddenly a completely acceptable argument.


It all matters. I can see NXT doing very well internationally honestly. Even though someone said that NXT isn't even in the top 50 or 150(I forget) view things on the WWE Network. 

But as far as American audiences are concerned you have to factor in everything in the digital age not just what's convenient to your argument. 

Idk why you and the anti-AEW side care so much about the ratings.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> No it’s not. It’s like counting physical album sales when you’re talking about physical album sales. Why is that so hard for people to get?


You continue to embarrass yourself. You cant just take cable box viewership when there are other ways to watch the show that aren't calculated in the formula. 

You're living in 1982 right now.


----------



## NXT Only

Why would you buy a CD when you could just download it or stream it on your smartphone?

The Wood is hilarious.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> You continue to embarrass yourself. You cant just take cable box viewership when there are other ways to watch the show that aren't calculated in the formula.
> 
> You're living in 1982 right now.


You absolutely can when you are talking about live viewers on TNT. This is what advertisers are paying for, which is where TNT gets the money to pay them exorbitant amounts in TV rights.

You’re trying to count Uber, Lyft and other ride sharing apps with taxi fares when talking about how much money is in the taxi industry.


----------



## Britz94xD

AEW vs WWE reminds me of Star Wars vs Star Trek, they both suck in 2020 folks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Britz94xD said:


> AEW vs WWE reminds me of Star Wars vs Star Trek, they both suck in 2020 folks.


Discovery was pretty good


----------



## RainmakerV2

NXT needs to switch the title to Kross asap and feature him and Scarlett (wearing the least amount possible that USA will allow) as much as they can.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> You absolutely can when you are talking about live viewers on TNT. This is what advertisers are paying for, which is where TNT gets the money to pay them exorbitant amounts in TV rights.
> 
> You’re trying to count Uber, Lyft and other ride sharing apps with taxi fares when talking about how much money is in the taxi industry.


Why are you concerned with advertisers lol


----------



## NXT Only

Taxi industry lol, he keeps reaching and embarrassing himself.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Since the topic of which Wrestling show is dying the quickest, and since the other boards are dead, this image is pretty telling about Smackdown.










3/20 was the first show I believe where full lockdown was in affect, they've went from a .75 to a .45, and lost 66% of their 18-34 audience.

That is fucking disgusting. AEW has fallen about 25%.


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Since the topic of which Wrestling show is dying the quickest, and since the other boards are dead, this image is pretty telling about Smackdown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3/20 was the first show I believe where full lockdown was in affect, they've went from a .75 to a .45, and lost 66% of their 18-34 audience.
> 
> That is fucking disgusting. AEW has fallen about 25%.


This is actually why I have been so upset by them protecting storylines and not going full force: you have WWE being exposed by lack of crowds (the crowds and pyro and all of those things mask WWE’s inept shows) and had a chance to really stand out and gain ground.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> This is actually why I have been so upset by them protecting storylines and not going full force: you have WWE being exposed by lack of crowds (the crowds and pyro and all of those things mask WWE’s inept shows) and had a chance to really stand out and gain ground.


I'm of the mindset, if you're running shows right now, no halfassing it because of the lack of crowds, go all the way. You can revisit the majority of matches when crowds are back and it'll feel fresh anyway.


----------



## midgetlover69

Pippen94 said:


> Aew has youngest average age - go post in raw, smack down & nxt forums


not surprising. Their target audience appears to be 10 year olds who are into orange juice jokes


----------



## bdon

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I'm of the mindset, if you're running shows right now, no halfassing it because of the lack of crowds, go all the way. You can revisit the majority of matches when crowds are back and it'll feel fresh anyway.


Bingo.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Why are you concerned with advertisers lol


Because that determines how much money they get, which determines the talent they can keep, which determines the quality of the show and how the industry overall responds. Try and keep up.

SmackDown and AEW have both lost a lot. SmackDown is usually #1 in the demo. But the idea that WWE is a sinking ship whereas AEW is on the rise is just completely unfounded.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Because that determines how much money they get, which determines the talent they can keep, which determines the quality of the show and how the industry overall responds. Try and keep up.
> 
> SmackDown and AEW have both lost a lot. SmackDown is usually #1 in the demo. But the idea that WWE is a sinking ship whereas AEW is on the rise is just completely unfounded.


Why are YOU concerned about advertisers?


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Why are YOU concerned about advertisers?


I answered the question.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> I answered the question.


Ratings do not determine the quality of the show. You dont even consider all sources of viewership and you wanna talk about ratings lol. FOH.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Ratings do not determine the quality of the show. You dont even consider all sources of viewership and you wanna talk about ratings lol. FOH.


Where did I ever say they did? No one has ever accused Americans of having good taste. The ratings only refer to how many people are watching on TNT. That's literally what the ratings are, haha. I don't consider all sources of viewership because it's, frankly, irrelevant to me. TNT is not going to offer AEW $100 million a year based on whether people watch AEW on an illegal stream or DVR. They care about the time they can sell to advertisers. That will determine the health of AEW and the consequent health of wrestling in general. I care about the health of wrestling.


----------



## iarwain

Doesn't it seem odd that AEW lost to NXT both weeks of Fyter Fest? They offered pay per view level matches both weeks but got beat both times. Considering AEW has won the vast majority of weeks this year, doesn't that seem odd?


----------



## The Wood

And the week before, which was just a regular week.


----------



## Bosnian21

iarwain said:


> Doesn't it seem odd that AEW lost to NXT both weeks of Fyter Fest? They offered pay per view level matches both weeks but got beat both times. Considering AEW has won the vast majority of weeks this year, doesn't that seem odd?


It’s not odd because NXT hot-shotted their biggest potential title match onto TV with minimal build, only to still end up losing in the ratings (lost the key demo).


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> And the week before, which was just a regular week.


You’re all too proud of the rare win. Reactions like this is why I don’t even bother shooting pool with some people: there is nothing to be gained when I win, I merely did what was expected; but on the off chance I lose, I just gave this guy a talking point he uses to beat his chest for years to come.

Tony, Jericho, and the fans shouldn’t even be placing NXT on their radar. They won the overall ratings a few times. So what, congratulations. _brushes off shoulders_


----------



## The Wood

Bosnian21 said:


> It’s not odd because NXT hot-shotted their biggest potential title match onto TV with minimal build, only to still end up losing in the ratings (lost the key demo).


Lol, hot-shotted.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Didn't they build to Cole/Lee for a while? I don't follow NXT but I seem to recall reading that somewhere or at least learning about it here.


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't they build to Cole/Lee for a while? I don't follow NXT but I seem to recall reading that somewhere or at least learning about it here.


No Lee was feuding with Gargano just before


----------



## The Wood

I remember hearing about how all these matches were hot-shotted when they were happening in January and had been brewing since October. People don’t know what it means.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> No it’s not. It’s like counting physical album sales when you’re talking about physical album sales. Why is that so hard for people to get?


But yet you won’t count the fact they are really high in the ratings 😂😂


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Where did I ever say they did? No one has ever accused Americans of having good taste. The ratings only refer to how many people are watching on TNT. That's literally what the ratings are, haha. I don't consider all sources of viewership because it's, frankly, irrelevant to me. TNT is not going to offer AEW $100 million a year based on whether people watch AEW on an illegal stream or DVR. They care about the time they can sell to advertisers. That will determine the health of AEW and the consequent health of wrestling in general. I care about the health of wrestling.


No but they’ll give them a better deal because they place high in the ratings such as 5th this week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Jon Moxley Vs Brian Cage got more views than every clip on WWE's channel from RAW, NXT and Smackdown, and by a pretty wide margin as well.

Given WWE has 64 million subscribers, and AEW has 1.4 million, that's kind of insane.

They really need to start putting Moxley on at least 3/4 shows a month, and ideally he's doing something of note every week.


----------



## rbl85

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Jon Moxley Vs Brian Cage got more views than every clip on WWE's channel from RAW, NXT and Smackdown, and by a pretty wide margin as well.
> 
> Given WWE has 64 million subscribers, and AEW has 1.4 million, that's kind of insane.
> 
> They really need to start putting Moxley on at least 3/4 shows a month, and ideally he's doing something of note every week.


How many of those 64M are in the US or UK ?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> How many of those 64M are in the US or UK ?


No way to know, but I imagine a significant amount of them are international, still, they would be contributing to the overall view count of videos.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> You’re all too proud of the rare win. Reactions like this is why I don’t even bother shooting pool with some people: there is nothing to be gained when I win, I merely did what was expected; but on the off chance I lose, I just gave this guy a talking point he uses to beat his chest for years to come.
> 
> Tony, Jericho, and the fans shouldn’t even be placing NXT on their radar. They won the overall ratings a few times. So what, congratulations. _brushes off shoulders_


“Rare win” you Disney character, this shit happens almost every week LMAO




bdon said:


> I can see AEW not winning the ratings war for a while. They let their foot off the gas protecting storylines and all those stupid fucking excuses, and now they find out that momentum is a fickle motherfucker.


its also because people like this foam at the mouth when AEW lose. Just need to counterbalance the negative semen with positive semen.


----------



## NXT Only

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Jon Moxley Vs Brian Cage got more views than every clip on WWE's channel from RAW, NXT and Smackdown, and by a pretty wide margin as well.
> 
> Given WWE has 64 million subscribers, and AEW has 1.4 million, that's kind of insane.
> 
> They really need to start putting Moxley on at least 3/4 shows a month, and ideally he's doing something of note every week.


Well Renee got Covid and before that he stayed away just in case. It was messy.

He should be fine going forward.


----------



## 3venflow

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Jon Moxley Vs Brian Cage got more views than every clip on WWE's channel from RAW, NXT and Smackdown, and by a pretty wide margin as well.
> 
> Given WWE has 64 million subscribers, and AEW has 1.4 million, that's kind of insane.
> 
> They really need to start putting Moxley on at least 3/4 shows a month, and ideally he's doing something of note every week.


At this point, they have to treat Moxley in the same way WWE did Austin in the AE. Backstage promos of him pacing, getting ready for matches, etc. I'd also consider starting every second Dynamite with a Moxley promo in the ring. It's clear he's one of their main attractions for fans and he's starting to look invincible, so there'll be a lot of interest in who can take him down.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> “Rare win” you Disney character, this shit happens almost every week LMAO
> 
> 
> its also because people like this foam at the mouth when AEW lose. Just need to counterbalance the negative semen with positive semen.


So quick to have to be the victim that you didn't even check to see who he was replying to..


----------



## NXT Only

3venflow said:


> At this point, they have to treat Moxley in the same way WWE did Austin in the AE. Backstage promos of him pacing, getting ready for matches, etc. I'd also consider starting every second Dynamite with a Moxley promo in the ring. It's clear he's one of their main attractions for fans and he's starting to look invincible, so there'll be a lot of interest in who can take him down.


That would get old fast


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

What Moxley needs is an equally entertaining and drawing dance partner.

Austin had Mr McMahon.
nWo Hogan had Sting

A long term feud that defines AEW is what is needed.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> “Rare win” you Disney character, this shit happens almost every week LMAO
> 
> 
> its also because people like this foam at the mouth when AEW lose. Just need to counterbalance the negative semen with positive semen.


Jesus Christ you really are a fucking psycho. I clearly tagged The Wood, calling out his NXT love fest and lack of admittance that AEW been kicking them in the teeth in the ratings for 90% of their existence.

I would suggest you place me on ignore, but you’re way too large of a stalker fucking fan to do that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Jesus Christ you really are a fucking psycho. I clearly tagged The Wood, calling out his NXT love fest and lack of admittance that AEW been kicking them in the teeth in the ratings for 90% of their existence.
> 
> I would suggest you place me on ignore, but you’re way too large of a stalker fucking fan to do that.


Where did you tag our boy wood? I see no tag. Why are you getting angry? You said “you’re all”. Doesn’t sound like you’re talking wood specifically.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> So quick to have to be the victim that you didn't even check to see who he was replying to..


Like fucking Sting dropping from the rafters for the save, you show up lol


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Where did you tag our boy wood? I see no tag. Why are you getting angry? You said “you’re all”. Doesn’t sound like you’re talking wood specifically.


In the fucking post you quoted, stalker.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> In the fucking post you quoted, stalker.


There’s no tag. A quote perhaps. Which I can’t see. But yeah you are getting too angry bdon. Chill out mate. Maybe you’re thinking about Cody rHHHodes.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> Where did you tag our boy wood? I see no tag. Why are you getting angry? You said “you’re all”. Doesn’t sound like you’re talking wood specifically.


Yes,“you’re all” as in “You (person who is fucking quoted, not tagged) are all too proud of the rare win.”

NXT has, what, 4 total viewership wins and 1 demo win? With AEW giving them more V-Triggers to the face than a Kenny Omega NJPW match, and your psychotic ass finds a way to twist that into me talking shit about AEW.

You may not wear a tinfoil hat, but you’re still looking far fucking creepier than anyone on this board more and more by the day.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Yes,“you’re all” as in “You (person who is fucking quoted, not tagged) are all too proud of the rare win.”
> 
> NXT has, what, 4 total viewership wins and 1 demo win? With AEW giving them more V-Triggers to the face than a Kenny Omega NJPW match, and your psychotic ass finds a way to twist that into me talking shit about AEW.
> 
> You may not wear a tinfoil hat, but you’re still looking far fucking creepier than anyone on this board more and more by the day.


But who’s “all”?

Trolling and flaming is against the rules. Chill with the insults.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> But who’s “all”?
> 
> Trolling and flaming is against the rules. Chill with the insults.


I quoted The Wood. He is all too happy to jump at the thought on an NXT win, much like the AEW fanbase jumped at 90% of all available wins.

You calling anyone out for trolling is comical. Should I start making a point to report every time you do these things?


----------



## 3venflow

optikk sucks said:


> What Moxley needs is an equally entertaining and drawing dance partner.
> 
> Austin had Mr McMahon.
> nWo Hogan had Sting
> 
> A long term feud that defines AEW is what is needed.


Heel Cody? Heel Kenny?

Eric Bischoff (but AEW said they won't do the authority figure)?

Imagine they had got Punk. Punk vs Mox would have been money.


----------



## AEWMoxley

3venflow said:


> Heel Cody? Heel Kenny?
> 
> Eric Bischoff (but AEW said they won't do the authority figure)?
> 
> Imagine they had got Punk. Punk vs Mox would have been money.


MJF is the correct answer.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> MJF is the correct answer.


Correct. MJF defines AEW.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Heel Cody? Heel Kenny?
> 
> Eric Bischoff (but AEW said they won't do the authority figure)?
> 
> Imagine they had got Punk. Punk vs Mox would have been money.


I think if done right, Omega can be Moxley's McMahon or Sting. 

And I'm still keeping hope alive that things work out with Punk lol, no matter how dead that hope is at this point. Anything can happen in wrestling.


----------



## Klitschko

optikk sucks said:


> But who’s “all”?
> 
> Trolling and flaming is against the rules. Chill with the insults.


You are literally trolling him at this point, not the other way around. He was actually on AEWs side and went against The Wood. You probably have the wood on ignore or something so you couldn't see that he quoted him.


----------



## The Wood

Schadenfreude is a real thing. If AEW fans were more reasonable and measured, it wouldn’t be so entertaining when AEW gets beat. And when the wrestling scene is so sad and you’re losing hope for a proper alternative, you’ve got to make your own fun.

The ratings are so low they’re basically insignificant. Cult is right, the way they measure these things is unreliable. And none of it reflects the quality of the shows. As I said, no one has accused Americans of having good taste. But it’s the AEW super fan side that has defined itself by ratings wins, “over 500,000 is great,” and demo gods. Live by the sword, die by the sword.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Guys, those legitimately looking for an alternative I have to bring up Slammiversary from yesterday. What a great show that was with limited comedy, a booking team that knows what the fuck they're doing, homegrown stars being used properly instead of being fed to WWE guys and stories/characters that make sense. The little amounts of comedy they did was in a midcard battle royale and wasn't insulting or offensive.

I was reluctant to give it a go but I regret not doing it sooner. Best wrestling in the United States is Impact.


----------



## The Wood

I wish I could take your word for it, Chip, but I’ve been hurt before, haha. I’ll keep my ears peeled to see how they do.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Guys, those legitimately looking for an alternative I have to bring up Slammiversary from yesterday. What a great show that was with limited comedy, a booking team that knows what the fuck they're doing, homegrown stars being used properly instead of being fed to WWE guys and stories/characters that make sense. The little amounts of comedy they did was in a midcard battle royale and wasn't insulting or offensive.
> 
> I was reluctant to give it a go but I regret not doing it sooner. Best wrestling in the United States is Impact.


I watched it and you’re hyping that shit up too much.

Also what is wrong with the WWE guys in AEW? As Tazz said are they not supposed to use them?

How can you defend that Impact card as the best in north America and shit on AEW every week is beyond me


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> I wish I could take your word for it, Chip, but I’ve been hurt before, haha. I’ll keep my ears peeled to see how they do.


They burned me before as well and it took me years to give them another shot but they have me excited about wrestling again. Get this, they sign the WWE guys but instead of force feeding them down their audiences throats they instead use the WWE guys to get the Impact homegrown stars over. What a concept!




NXT Only said:


> I watched it and you’re hyping that shit up too much.
> 
> Also what is wrong with the WWE guys in AEW? As Tazz said are they not supposed to use them?
> 
> How can you defend that Impact card as the best in north America and shit on AEW every week is beyond me


I'm not defending anything until now.

Impact deserves to be number 2 in the US. The show flowed really well, everyone looked like a wrestler including the smaller guys who whilst small actually looked like they hit the gym, the stories all looked compelling and exciting in the video packages, they had comedy but it was under 5 minutes and whilst I didn't find it funny it did actually make sense instead of just being there for the sake of being there.

Every match except the opener had a reason. Whether it was people fighting for a title shot, people fighting over personal differences, people fighting to become champion it just all was out there on a PPV. None of it thrown together half arsed with a "Oh well, they won't care" excuse behind it. Just a well booked PPV that made total sense and was done fucking properly. They even had guys turning up at the arena, surprises that made sense, guys treated like big deals it was just awesome.

The problem with the WWE guys is exactly what I said. Compare AEW and Impact:

AEW - WWE guys force fed down your throat. Every show they do has at least one WWE guy in the main event, the WWE guys pretty much always overcome the homegrown AEW guys and unless you're a former WWE star you aren't progressing on the roster.

Impact - Use the WWE guys properly. Ken Shamrock put over a young tag team called The North, Dreamer put over Moose, Good Brothers (Anderson and Gallows) came out and are about to get into a feud with Ace Austin and Mad Man Fulton which will presumably be Austin's big breakout feud (They're calling him the next AJ Styles by the way). Anderson and Gallows ended the PPV by putting over Eddie Edwards. The only guy that was made to look bad by a WWE guy was the guy who interrupted Heath Slater and even he got the better of Heath for a brief moment.

Impact wasn't perfect. Some of the women in the battle royale were average, they had some technical issues and some people are complaining about some of their booking decisions (Which I can't judge yet off the one show) but the PPV is definitely better than anything I've seen from AEW this year.


----------



## bdon

WWE guys being force fed down the throats is probably my biggest complaint. I fucking loathe glass ceilings.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> They burned me before as well and it took me years to give them another shot but they have me excited about wrestling again. Get this, they sign the WWE guys but instead of force feeding them down their audiences throats they instead use the WWE guys to get the Impact homegrown stars over. What a concept!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not defending anything until now.
> 
> Impact deserves to be number 2 in the US. The show flowed really well, everyone looked like a wrestler including the smaller guys who whilst small actually looked like they hit the gym, the stories all looked compelling and exciting in the video packages, they had comedy but it was under 5 minutes and whilst I didn't find it funny it did actually make sense instead of just being there for the sake of being there.
> 
> Every match except the opener had a reason. Whether it was people fighting for a title shot, people fighting over personal differences, people fighting to become champion it just all was out there on a PPV. None of it thrown together half arsed with a "Oh well, they won't care" excuse behind it. Just a well booked PPV that made total sense and was done fucking properly. They even had guys turning up at the arena, surprises that made sense, guys treated like big deals it was just awesome.
> 
> The problem with the WWE guys is exactly what I said. Compare AEW and Impact:
> 
> AEW - WWE guys force fed down your throat. Every show they do has at least one WWE guy in the main event, the WWE guys pretty much always overcome the homegrown AEW guys and unless you're a former WWE star you aren't progressing on the roster.
> 
> Impact - Use the WWE guys properly. Ken Shamrock put over a young tag team called The North, Dreamer put over Moose, Good Brothers (Anderson and Gallows) came out and are about to get into a feud with Ace Austin and Mad Man Fulton which will presumably be Austin's big breakout feud (They're calling him the next AJ Styles by the way). Anderson and Gallows ended the PPV by putting over Eddie Edwards. The only guy that was made to look bad by a WWE guy was the guy who interrupted Heath Slater and even he got the better of Heath for a brief moment.
> 
> Impact wasn't perfect. Some of the women in the battle royale were average, they had some technical issues and some people are complaining about some of their booking decisions (Which I can't judge yet off the one show) but the PPV is definitely better than anything I've seen from AEW this year.


And how would AEW be better off using WWE guys?

Also Moose has been wrestling far too long to need Tommy Dreamer to put him over and Ken Shamrock being inside a wrestling ring in a prominent role is ridiculous.

There’s not a single AEW guy who’s dominating that is a homegrown WWE product.

Moxley was Moxley before WWE, Cody built himself up on the Indy scene, Jericho is a WCW guy, you complained about FTR losing the other day. Idk man you’re all over the place.

Nothing about Slammiversary was anything special. But I am glad you found something to watch so now AEW doesn’t have to upset you week in and week out.


----------



## bdon

WWE is where those guys made their name. Stop.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> Guys, those legitimately looking for an alternative I have to bring up Slammiversary from yesterday. What a great show that was with limited comedy, a booking team that knows what the fuck they're doing, homegrown stars being used properly instead of being fed to WWE guys and stories/characters that make sense. The little amounts of comedy they did was in a midcard battle royale and wasn't insulting or offensive.
> 
> I was reluctant to give it a go but I regret not doing it sooner. Best wrestling in the United States is Impact.


Impact has a good eye for talent, I don't know where they found Ace Austin (he would have been about 20 when they did) but he's a diamond; and they were in contact with Chris Bey about a year before Cody even mentioned him. If they had anywhere near the resources or potential for exposure that AEW does, it would be exciting to see the talents they'd be able to snag.

Meanwhile, AEW, a company that employs Janela, Stunt, Nakazawa, Luther, Kiss, etc. had to give someone like Ricky Starks a "tryout".


----------



## El Hammerstone

double post, sorry


----------



## The Wood

I’ve heard concerns about Ken Shamrock’s health, but on the surface of it, he’s 6 years older than Jericho. What is ridiculous about one and not the other? And don’t say CTE, because Jericho’s recent decisions have made me question the health of his brain.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT Only said:


> And how would AEW be better off using WWE guys?
> 
> Also Moose has been wrestling far too long to need Tommy Dreamer to put him over and Ken Shamrock being inside a wrestling ring in a prominent role is ridiculous.
> 
> There’s not a single AEW guy who’s dominating that is a homegrown WWE product.
> 
> Moxley was Moxley before WWE, Cody built himself up on the Indy scene, Jericho is a WCW guy, you complained about FTR losing the other day. Idk man you’re all over the place.
> 
> Nothing about Slammiversary was anything special. But I am glad you found something to watch so now AEW doesn’t have to upset you week in and week out.


AEW would be better off using the WWE guys to build the homegrown guys unless it's guys like Moxley and Cody who still have plenty of time to go in wrestling. No chance does Impact feed a guy like Pillman Jr to Shawn Spears or Brian Cage being fed to a Shamrock or Van Dam.

It was such a breath of fresh air to see a team of stars like Gallows and Anderson debut in Impact and instead of immediately getting into a program with another ex WWE star they instead get involved with a 23 year old guy that Impact is clearly high on and the 23 year old guys bodyguard who is 6'8, 315 pounds and has just turned 30. If it was AEW they'd have put Gallows and Anderson with The Bucks, Kenny/Page or an ex WWE team who don't need the rub.

Shamrock is old but also in phenomenal shape. Dreamer and Moose went out and had a good hardcore match although I tend to agree that Moose probably did deserve a bigger named opponent but it was still plenty of fun.

As for your argument it's a bad one.

Moxley never signed a full time contract with a national company before WWE therefore he's a WWE product, Cody spent the first 9 years of his career and became a big star in the WWE system, Jericho you could call a WCW guy but he actually became the big star that he is today in WWE so I'd lean more towards him being a WWE guy.

I didn't complain FTR lost I said FTR were just another team which they are. They were special for a week or two and now mean very little. Big money spent on a team that is no longer special a month later. Typical AEW move.

Slammiversary wasn't special you're right but it was just a well put together wrestling show with logic. The fact I'm so excited and pumped up to support a logical and serious wrestling show speaks volumes about just how poor AEW has been going lately.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Guys, those legitimately looking for an alternative I have to bring up Slammiversary from yesterday. What a great show that was with limited comedy, a booking team that knows what the fuck they're doing, homegrown stars being used properly instead of being fed to WWE guys and stories/characters that make sense. The little amounts of comedy they did was in a midcard battle royale and wasn't insulting or offensive.
> 
> I was reluctant to give it a go but I regret not doing it sooner. Best wrestling in the United States is Impact.


i was wondering about this

its 19 bucks - so, you’re saying worth the buy?


----------



## NXT Only

bdon said:


> WWE is where those guys made their name. Stop.


Jericho? Moxley literally had his name changed. Cody wasn’t Cody in WWE.

WWE’s biggest stars all made their names outside the company as well. Just because someone went through the machine doesn’t mean the machine defines them.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Jericho? Moxley literally had his name changed. Cody wasn’t Cody in WWE.
> 
> WWE’s biggest stars all made their names outside the company as well. Just because someone went through the machine doesn’t mean the machine defines them.


People know who all those people are because of WWE.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW would be better off using the WWE guys to build the homegrown guys unless it's guys like Moxley and Cody who still have plenty of time to go in wrestling. No chance does Impact feed a guy like Pillman Jr to Shawn Spears or Brian Cage being fed to a Shamrock or Van Dam.
> 
> It was such a breath of fresh air to see a team of stars like Gallows and Anderson debut in Impact and instead of immediately getting into a program with another ex WWE star they instead get involved with a 23 year old guy that Impact is clearly high on and the 23 year old guys bodyguard who is 6'8, 315 pounds and has just turned 30. If it was AEW they'd have put Gallows and Anderson with The Bucks, Kenny/Page or an ex WWE team who don't need the rub.
> 
> Shamrock is old but also in phenomenal shape. Dreamer and Moose went out and had a good hardcore match although I tend to agree that Moose probably did deserve a bigger named opponent but it was still plenty of fun.
> 
> As for your argument it's a bad one.
> 
> Moxley never signed a full time contract with a national company before WWE therefore he's a WWE product, Cody spent the first 9 years of his career and became a big star in the WWE system, Jericho you could call a WCW guy but he actually became the big star that he is today in WWE so I'd lean more towards him being a WWE guy.
> 
> I didn't complain FTR lost I said FTR were just another team which they are. They were special for a week or two and now mean very little. Big money spent on a team that is no longer special a month later. Typical AEW move.
> 
> Slammiversary wasn't special you're right but it was just a well put together wrestling show with logic. The fact I'm so excited and pumped up to support a logical and serious wrestling show speaks volumes about just how poor AEW has been going lately.


What logic? That’s my point. You enjoyed it so obviously it was logical but because you don’t enjoy AEW it’s illogical? That’s ridiculous.

Like I told you, stop making things up in your head. You cannot define what is wrong or right, quality or poor, good or bad, logical or illogical.

If Anderson and Gallows debuted and team with Jericho to go against Bucks/Omega then it would have been logical due to their time in Japan, which is canon to AEW history. But because Jericho is an ex-WWE guy it’s illogical lol. Stop it.

But hey you and anyone else now have a great wresting show to watch and can stop watching AEW since it’s so poor.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> People know who all those people are because of WWE.


That’s a lie. You know who Jericho is because of WCW. Everyone was high on Moxley on the independent scene and Cody’s fan base grew post-WWE.

That’s like calling AJ Styles a WWE guy.


----------



## NXT Only

When AEW pushes a “non-WWE guy” y’all shit on that.

Didn’t y’all shit on Brodie Lee losing?

Just making this shit up as y’all go along.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i was wondering about this
> 
> its 19 bucks - so, you’re saying worth the buy?


Yes, I highly recommend the show. It wasn't perfect but it was serious wrestling done well enough to get me excited for their TV show again when I haven't been since 2015.



NXT Only said:


> What logic? That’s my point. You enjoyed it so obviously it was logical but because you don’t enjoy AEW it’s illogical? That’s ridiculous.
> 
> Like I told you, stop making things up in your head. You cannot define what is wrong or right, quality or poor, good or bad, logical or illogical.
> 
> If Anderson and Gallows debuted and team with Jericho to go against Bucks/Omega then it would have been logical due to their time in Japan, which is canon to AEW history. But because Jericho is an ex-WWE guy it’s illogical lol. Stop it.
> 
> But hey you and anyone else now have a great wresting show to watch and can stop watching AEW since it’s so poor.


I feel like you're just asking questions for the sake of asking questions now. The show was logical meaning it made sense, it built things for the future, it established characters for the upcoming few months of TV before the next PPV, every match (Bar one) had a reason for occurring. That's what I mean by logical.

Compare it to the last AEW TV special which literally had matches mashed together a week or two prior for no reason. Janela/Archer was one, Brodie Lee's six man tag was one, Jurassic Express Vs MJF/Wardlow was another, Shida/Ford and even the 8 man tag. That's like half the matches that were just randomly put together due to poor planning and bad booking.

Nobody said the WWE guys weren't used logically just that they were used wrong. You're right, Anderson and Gallows are big stars as is Jericho so Jericho always should've adopted the group of guys he did and Gallows/Anderson could go off and feud with a team like Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus to help make them stars. AEW though would definitely be the type to put Jericho with Gallows/Anderson and it would've been Gallows/Anderson doing those cringe Bubbly Bunch skits instead of PnP.

And yeah, I look forward to supporting Impact. 



NXT Only said:


> When AEW pushes a “non-WWE guy” y’all shit on that.
> 
> Didn’t y’all shit on Brodie Lee losing?
> 
> Just making this shit up as y’all go along.


The only non WWE guy I can think of who got a big push to the top of the card recently was Orange Cassidy who is a comedy wrestler and he sucks so of course we'll shit on it.

We did shit on Brodie Lee losing but I think you'll find many of us never wanted Brodie/Mox in the first place instead preferring Brodie to get into a feud with a guy like Darby Allin. That's what I personally wanted anyway. Calling out bad booking when they do it isn't "making shit up" though.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> That’s a lie. You know who Jericho is because of WCW. Everyone was high on Moxley on the independent scene and Cody’s fan base grew post-WWE.
> 
> That’s like calling AJ Styles a WWE guy.


To a lot of people AJ Styles is a WWE guy. He certainly has more exposure than he ever has because of WWE. You’re right, Jericho was in WCW silly me for conflating things there. He’s known because he was around in the 90’s. Got big in the WWF.


----------



## Not Lying

El Hammerstone said:


> Impact has a good eye for talent, I don't know where they found Ace Austin (he would have been about 20 when they did) but he's a diamond; and they were in contact with Chris Bey about a year before Cody even mentioned him. If they had anywhere near the resources or potential for exposure that AEW does, it would be exciting to see the talents they'd be able to snag.
> 
> Meanwhile, AEW, a company that employs Janela, Stunt, Nakazawa, Luther, Kiss, etc. had to give someone like Ricky Starks a "tryout".


Yeah those 2 guys def caught my attention, especially Bey.











He reminded me a bit of Future the rapper












Chris Bey played a great heel in his match (would have had him win by kicking the balls instead of scratching the eyes tho), and Future is kind of a made-up heel on the internet (well, some of his his lyrics don't help). He's basically the face of "misogyny/ toxic masculinity" memes on the net.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> To a lot of people AJ Styles is a WWE guy. He certainly has more exposure than he ever has because of WWE. You’re right, Jericho was in WCW silly me for conflating things there. He’s known because he was around in the 90’s. Got big in the WWF.


It’s hard to find a guy who hasn’t gone through WWE in one way or another. AEW dismissing them because of that is bad business. If a guy is talented then he’s talented.

This homegrown thing is overblown anyway. The top champion in every promotion has been in another company at some point.


----------



## bdon

NXT Only said:


> It’s hard to find a guy who hasn’t gone through WWE in one way or another. AEW dismissing them because of that is bad business. If a guy is talented then he’s talented.
> 
> This homegrown thing is overblown anyway. The top champion in every promotion has been in another company at some point.


You really don’t get it.


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> *It’s hard to find a guy who hasn’t gone through WWE in one way or another.* AEW dismissing them because of that is bad business. If a guy is talented then he’s talented.
> 
> This homegrown thing is overblown anyway. The top champion in every promotion has been in another company at some point.


No it isn't. I've posted massive lists of male and female wrestlers who are ready to be on television that haven't been involved with WWE at all. The independent scene isn't as baron as those who can't say anything negative about AEW happen to believe. Every single one of them would be a billion times better than almost half of the current roster.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cult03 said:


> No it isn't. I've posted massive lists of male and female wrestlers who are ready to be on television that haven't been involved with WWE at all. The independent scene isn't as baron as those who can't say anything negative about AEW happen to believe. Every single one of them would be a billion times better than almost half of the current roster.


I'm convinced Schaff and Fred Yehi would be in NXT right now if not for the pandemic.


----------



## Boldgerg

I really can't be bothered to read through all the bullshit, but the gist of it that I'm getting is "pushing WWE guys is bad".

Can someone logically explain to me why that is?


----------



## NXT Only

bdon said:


> You really don’t get it.


You and your crew has some nerve lol


----------



## NXT Only

Boldgerg said:


> I really can't be bothered to read through all the bullshit, but the gist of it that I'm getting is "pushing WWE guys is bad".
> 
> Can someone logically explain to me why that is?


Because they want homegrown(whatever that means) guys to be in the spotlight but then when that happens(Orange Cassidy) they cry.

Then they cry about star power but don’t want WWE guys in the main events.

So AEW really can’t please them.


----------



## Boldgerg

NXT Only said:


> Because they want homegrown(whatever that means) guys to be in the spotlight but then when that happens(Orange Cassidy) they cry.
> 
> Then they cry about star power but don’t want WWE guys in the main events.
> 
> So AEW really can’t please them.


But why? Why does anyone give a fuck if a wrestler has come from/made their name in WWE, or any other company for that matter? Surely what matters is their ability to entertain as a performer, not their past work history?

Wrestling fans are fucking weird.


----------



## NXT Only

Boldgerg said:


> But why? Why does anyone give a fuck if a wrestler has come from/made their name in WWE, or any other company for that matter? Surely what matters is their ability to entertain as a performer, not their past work history?
> 
> Wrestling fans are fucking weird.


Idk man. That’s what some of us are trying to understand.

Don’t push Moxley because he was in WWE or let FTR have a prominent angle coming in. It’s stupid.

Let all talent shine IMO.


----------



## El Hammerstone

NXT Only said:


> Because they want homegrown(whatever that means) guys to be in the spotlight but then when that happens(Orange Cassidy) they cry.
> 
> Then they cry about star power but don’t want WWE guys in the main events.
> 
> So AEW really can’t please them.


You're completely ignoring the fact that every one of "the crew" has stated for several months that they had no desire to see Orange Cassidy propelled up the card. There is nothing inconsistent about it, you're either lying to yourself or simply don't pay attention (probably because you have most people blocked).

Also, none of us said we didn't want Moxley or FTR to be pushed, so there's another lie.


----------



## taker1986

I wonder what the PPV buys for Slammiversary was? I don't think it'll be as many as Double or Nothing but should still get a good number because interest was pretty high from what I saw.

I bought it myself and I must say it was one of my favorite PPVs in the last 12 months, I enjoyed it much more than whatever the hell that was that was on tonight.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT Only said:


> Because they want homegrown(whatever that means) guys to be in the spotlight but then when that happens(Orange Cassidy) they cry.
> 
> Then they cry about star power but don’t want WWE guys in the main events.
> 
> So AEW really can’t please them.


Homegrown meaning guys that people can point to and say "Oh, that guy made his name in AEW". TNA has a heap of them including Joe, AJ, EY, Roode etc etc. Orange Cassidy is a bad example because he got propelled up the card but lost to Jericho. 

We never said WWE guys can't main event as a matter of fact I said the popular guys in their primes are more than welcome to main event but AEW has had a main event guy in every single main event since February of this year. All of the main event guys are former WWE guys and even the midcard is now getting full of ex WWE guys. 



Boldgerg said:


> But why? Why does anyone give a fuck if a wrestler has come from/made their name in WWE, or any other company for that matter? Surely what matters is their ability to entertain as a performer, not their past work history?
> 
> Wrestling fans are fucking weird.


Because the WWE guys often aren't going to get better and guys like MJF, Jungle Boy etc can improve. The WWE guys are also super expensive like Brodie Lee who is allegedly making 750k a year for his time in AEW. Can you imagine how many great full time talents AEW could sign on Brodie Lee's money alone? Maybe if Brodie Lee wasn't there we wouldn't have to watch Marko Stunt pretend to be a wrestler.


----------



## bdon

Boldgerg said:


> But why? Why does anyone give a fuck if a wrestler has come from/made their name in WWE, or any other company for that matter? Surely what matters is their ability to entertain as a performer, not their past work history?
> 
> Wrestling fans are fucking weird.


It isn’t that we believe WWE guys can’t main event or be in angles.

The problem is when you bring in a Matt Hardy and immediately shove him to the forefront of an Elite vs Inner Circle blowoff storyline over Kenny Omega, who is literally right there for every pandemic match, has more matches under his belt than anyone in the company, etc.

The problem is in making Brodie Lee #1 contender after 4-5 squash matches. What happened to that “Strength of opponent” component that is supposed to be in the rankings. I guess beating bums doesn’t matter if you have the history of the WWE Machine on your side.

Use the KNOWN COMMODITY as a vehicle to make another known commodity, and when coming out of a feud with one of those more well known former WWE names, for the love of God, have something meaningful for the wrestler!

Lance Archer should not be toiling away with Joey Janela. MJF shouldn’t be working a feud with Jungle Boy. Kenny Omega loses his feud to Moxley/Dean Ambrose, Adam Page loses his feud to Pac/Neville, and you don’t have anything for them for these two amazing singles performers, so you slap them into a bloated tag team picture. Through sheer talent, they make the tag team, and all of its moving parts, into the most compelling story on the show.

No one is denying the power of having those names on the show or roster. We just believe that some of the guys - Brodie Lee, Matt Hardy, Jake Hager specifically - found the ceiling of their talent years ago and hate to see younger, more compelling and spectacular acts be hamatrung by a glass ceiling simply due to lack of time in WWE.

I’m really not sure where your Moxley and FTR complaints are coming from. No one has said anything about their booking. Hell, if anything, we have complained that Moxley hasn’t been used enough, and that they need to book FTR as the strongest tag team on the card to make it more meaningful for the teams who end up working angles with them, specifically guys like Private Party.

There is more to it than WWE vs not WWE. You’re dumbing the argument down way too much, man.


----------



## bdon

And for people who you claim to hate AEW so much, would you care to explain why we want them to be better? Why do we all mock the thought of Rey Mysterio Jr having to sell his eyeball being plucked from his head, yet enjoyed a spike to Moxley’s eye (it only became stupid when it was revealed he wrestled 3/4 of a world title match with the patch, limiting himself)?

We hate the missed opportunities AEW keeps leaving on the table. Vince’s cartoony bullshit is begging for someone to come along, present a serious product, and steal the power and prestige of being the #1 wrestling company in the world out from under his feet.

Can you imagine if everything was presented in as serious a manner as MJF/Jungle Boy’s DoN 2 matchup? Or with the story-building thought and care of Cody and MJF? The violence and grittiness of the Moxley/Omega feud or the Daily’s Place Street Fight? The sports-like presentation of the Iron Man Match?

You can still use the Best Friends and Orange Cassidy for light-hearted humor in more low to midcard segments as a change of pace, just don’t oversaturate the humor with Cassidy working opposite your biggest star while ALSO flooding the airwaves with Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss, Janela, and QT fuckin’ Marshall.


----------



## bdon

AEW pisses me off, because they have such an opportunity to do something WCW pissed away 20 years ago. A) They have the funds to compete, B) they have shown the skills to put out a competitive product, and most importantly, C) they are facing the weakest WWE product in Vince’s history as owner.

If AEW would come correct looking for a fight, WWE would be so far behind the curve they’d require at least a 2 year period simply to reset all of the stupid that has been conditioned into their fans’ minds. That is precisely what happened in ‘96 when Bischoff went polar opposite of the WWE brand?

These guys have shown flashes of greatness, but it is always two steps forward, one step back.


----------



## The Wood

Imagine thinking your only choices were WWE guys or Orange Cassidy.


----------



## NXT Only

Imagine me reading all those tear filled posts above about your contradictions.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Sick and tired of fans that don't want a guy just because they were in Vinceville. The w


Boldgerg said:


> But why? Why does anyone give a fuck if a wrestler has come from/made their name in WWE, or any other company for that matter? Surely what matters is their ability to entertain as a performer, not their past work history?
> 
> Wrestling fans are fucking weird.


They shouldn't. The name of the game is to get the best wrestlers that you can possibly get to form the best possible roster.


----------



## bdon

TKO Wrestling said:


> Sick and tired of fans that don't want a guy just because they were in Vinceville. The w
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. The name of the game is to get the best wrestlers that you can possibly get to form the best possible roster.


No one cares for them signing them, but the fact that Matt Hardy and Brodie Lee have history in WWE, does not mean they are better wrestlers than MJF, Sammy Guevara, Kenny Omega, Adam Page, etc.

You use those guys to put eyes on the talent that have never been seen by the WWE faithful to show the world that there is more to wrestling than whatever Vince feeds you.


----------



## Boldgerg

Some of you take wrestling and your fandom far, far too seriously. Concerning yourselves about the money they're paying "WWE guys" and the proceeding baseless assumptions that it has stopped/may be stopping them from signing other "better" talent. Bla bla bla.

The issue with the product is the messy booking and storytelling, not a lack of talent or the fact that there's "too many WWE guys" which, in reality, means precisely fuck all. They had a job in another company, they now work in AEW. End of.

People were absolutely CLAMOURING for Brodie Lee to get out of WWE and get a chance elsewhere, now it's "nah fuck that old, ex-WWE guy being shoved down our throats"? Make up your minds, fuck.


----------



## bdon

No one expected career midcard guys to come in and immediately takeover the main event, fuck.


----------



## The Wood

If the goal is to put the most talented people in the best spots, why did they sign Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy? Why is Zack Ryder teasing that he’s signing? Why is Shawn Spears still with Tully Blanchard?


----------



## Boldgerg

bdon said:


> No one expected career midcard guys to come in and immediately takeover the main event, fuck.


Yes, he's come in and completely taken over the main event. This is proven by the fact that he is currently world champion and running through the entire roster, meaning it definitely wasn't just a brief, filler feud that went as quickly as it came.

Oh, wait...


----------



## The Wood

Boldgerg said:


> Yes, he's come in and completely taken over the main event. This is proven by the fact that he is currently world champion and running through the entire roster, meaning it definitely wasn't just a brief, filler feud that went as quickly as it came.
> 
> Oh, wait...


Are we talking about Brodie Lee or Matt Hardy? Man, AEW sure has a lot of “filler.”


----------



## Boldgerg

The Wood said:


> Are we talking about Brodie Lee or Matt Hardy? Man, AEW sure has a lot of “filler.”


Yeah, Matt Hardy also dominating the main event scene with his recent mid-carders 6 man tag match and zero world title shots or main event singles matches.

Oh, wait, again...


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> If the goal is to put the most talented people in the best spots, why did they sign Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy? Why is Zack Ryder teasing that he’s signing? Why is Shawn Spears still with Tully Blanchard?


Oddly enough that would be a pretty interesting stable managed by Tully lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Boldgerg said:


> People were absolutely CLAMOURING for Brodie Lee to get out of WWE and get a chance elsewhere, now it's "nah fuck that old, ex-WWE guy being shoved down our throats"? Make up your minds, fuck.


Do you think maybe people are saying "Nah, fuck Brodie Lee" because of how horrendously he's been used? Jim Cornette called him the most boring man in wrestling and I laughed my ass off because it's true.

People wanted Brodie Lee to debut and show what he can do but unfortunately he's been anchored with a gimmick where he was Vince McMahon for the month which was quickly dropped once AEW got given shit for it and now he's a generic cult leader chasing after Colt Cabana for no reason.

Maybe if Brodie Lee was kicking ass and showing what we were missing in WWE we'd be supportive of him.


----------



## Boldgerg

Chip Chipperson said:


> Do you think maybe people are saying "Nah, fuck Brodie Lee" because of how horrendously he's been used? Jim Cornette called him the most boring man in wrestling and I laughed my ass off because it's true.
> 
> People wanted Brodie Lee to debut and show what he can do but unfortunately he's been anchored with a gimmick where he was Vince McMahon for the month which was quickly dropped once AEW got given shit for it and now he's a generic cult leader chasing after Colt Cabana for no reason.
> 
> Maybe if Brodie Lee was kicking ass and showing what we were missing in WWE we'd be supportive of him.


But that's an entirely different subject and not what I'm countering with my posts, isn't it?

My posts and what they're in response to are to people rambling on directly about how they're pushing ex-WWE guys too much. Booking and creative is a completely different kettle of fish.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Boldgerg said:


> But that's an entirely different subject and not what I'm countering with my posts, isn't it?
> 
> My posts and what they're in response to are to people rambling on directly about how they're pushing ex-WWE guys too much. Booking and creative is a completely different kettle of fish.


Your post openly says we can't make up our minds though. People don't have anything against Brodie Lee personally but just how he's used. I'm sure he's absolutely livid that he signed up for AEW and has been buried by their creative.

They do push ex WWE guys too much and it does indeed give off an impression that AEW is another brand of WWE. That's why when you had Mike Tyson and Chris Jericho arguing on AEW some mainstream reporters said it was WWE.


----------



## Boldgerg

Chip Chipperson said:


> Your post openly says we can't make up our minds though. People don't have anything against Brodie Lee personally but just how he's used. I'm sure he's absolutely livid that he signed up for AEW and has been buried by their creative.
> 
> They do push ex WWE guys too much and it does indeed give off an impression that AEW is another brand of WWE. That's why when you had Mike Tyson and Chris Jericho arguing on AEW some mainstream reporters said it was WWE.


One part of one of my posts references the fact that people were asking for Brodie Lee and for years wanted him to be given an opportunity, and the second he's got thay people are slagging him for being "rammed down our throats" and bitching about how he's another WWE guy being pushed too hard (even though he's not). It's laughably contradictory.

I disagree entirely that they push "WWE guys" too much, and I'm still yet to hear a logical reason as to why everyone is so obsessed with that point anyway. Talent and ability to entertain should be all that matters, not where a wrestler has worked in the past. I'd also be pretty fucked off and think the fans were whiney little dick heads if I was an ex-WWE wrestler looking to move my career forward and I was being immediately trashed because of where I'd worked prior to AEW. It's honestly a bizarre, nonsensical mindset and another ridiculous trait of the modern day wrestling fan.

Everyone takes things too seriously, everyone takes themselves and their fandom too seriously, everyone tries to analyse the business like an expert and everyone looks for reasons to complain off the back of all of those things. That's not to say there aren't things wrong with AEW because there definitely are, but they boil down to the good old simplicities of how people are being utilised and creative direction, not ridiculous crap like people trying to concern themselves with company finances and how much money they assume AEW is "wasting" on ex-WWE talent and the baseless presumption that it's stopping the company from signing guys that they have decided are more worthy of a place on the roster.

I didn't see anything where the Tyson and Jericho stuff was referred to as WWE, but if it was then I'm not sure why it's particularly surprising? AEW has been on TV for 9 months and WWE effectively cornered the wrestling market in the western world for almost two decades. It's going to be a long time before those with only a very casual interest in wrestling or those who simply happen upon some wrestling news don't instantly think "WWE". It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of ex-WWE wrestlers on the roster.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Chip Chipperson said:


> Do you think maybe people are saying "Nah, fuck Brodie Lee" because of how horrendously he's been used? Jim Cornette called him the most boring man in wrestling and I laughed my ass off because it's true.
> 
> People wanted Brodie Lee to debut and show what he can do but unfortunately he's been anchored with a gimmick where he was Vince McMahon for the month which was quickly dropped once AEW got given shit for it and now he's a generic cult leader chasing after Colt Cabana for no reason.
> 
> Maybe if Brodie Lee was kicking ass and showing what we were missing in WWE we'd be supportive of him.


Maybe don't be a Fair Weather Fan.


----------



## The Wood

Boldgerg said:


> Yeah, Matt Hardy also dominating the main event scene with his recent mid-carders 6 man tag match and zero world title shots or main event singles matches.
> 
> Oh, wait, again...


You’re not a mark, are you? You’re aware that there is more to being emphasised in wrestling than getting title shots. Also, Matt Hardy was in the main event of the last PPV. If he’s been bumped down, it’s because it didn’t work. Yet another tjing



Boldgerg said:


> But that's an entirely different subject and not what I'm countering with my posts, isn't it?
> 
> My posts and what they're in response to are to people rambling on directly about how they're pushing ex-WWE guys too much. Booking and creative is a completely different kettle of fish.


You’re setting up goalposts. People don’t care about top stars and super effective players coming in. Anyone would kill to have Randy Orton jump ship. They just don’t give a fuck about Matt Hardy Version 9 or Bludgeon BLuke. 



ripcitydisciple said:


> Maybe don't be a Fair Weather Fan.


Maybe have some self-respect and demand quality?


----------



## bdon

When was the last time the show was headlined in a singles match by guys without WWE experience? Are MJF, Sammy, Darby, Luchasaurus, Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Omega, Jungle Boy, the Bucks (LOL to those that winced when they read this one), and the like incapable of main eventing?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> When was the last time the show was headlined in a singles match by guys without WWE experience? Are MJF, Sammy, Darby, Luchasaurus, Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Omega, Jungle Boy, the Bucks (LOL to those that winced when they read this one), and the like incapable of main eventing?


I am kind of 50/50 with this right now. I want to hear both arguments. Without any WWE guys you would have zero name recognition in AEW. If Jericho and Moxley were not there, no one in North America would now who anyone was. So I get the argument that you need homegrown stars, but you need actual stars to make stars.

I also get the argument that too many WWE guy saturate the product. We all want new guys too.

But there is a place for SOME WWE guys right? You have to have a launching pad to build new people.


----------



## The Wood

The way talent is used also makes you think back to their better forms. Brodie Lee reminds you of Luke Harper, who was better. Matt Hardy reminds you of the Hardy Boyz, who were better, etc.


----------



## bdon

Lheurch said:


> I am kind of 50/50 with this right now. I want to hear both arguments. Without any WWE guys you would have zero name recognition in AEW. If Jericho and Moxley were not there, no one in North America would now who anyone was. So I get the argument that you need homegrown stars, but you need actual stars to make stars.
> 
> I also get the argument that too many WWE guy saturate the product. We all want new guys too.
> 
> But there is a place for SOME WWE guys right? You have to have a launching pad to build new people.


But no one that I see is suggesting not having WWE talent. You have the WWE talent, and the millions of fans that know their names from their time in The Machine, and you use them to make names of those more talented guys who simply chose to not go the WWE route.

To this point, how many shows, Dynamite or PPV, have ended with Elsewhere Wrestler vs Elsewhere Wrestler? WWE guys who feel Vince has misused them supposed to just get pushed straight into the main event scene to work opposite the other WWE guy? Jake Hager’s first big match comes against Dustin; that couldn’t have been maybe a Darby Allin who Hager cheated out of the world title?

Luke Harper going straight to a title match and Matt Hardy starring opposite Jericho in an IC vs Elite storyline are both terrible use of the WWE star power.


----------



## bdon

Remember when Chris Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero we’re constantly used in the first hour of Nitro? That is precisely what the booking in AEW has said about Adam Page, Omega, MJF, etc. 

“You are here for the sole purpose of keeping the fans entertained until we can get to the meat and potatoes of our show.”

Glass ceilings are real.


----------



## taker1986

bdon said:


> When was the last time the show was headlined in a singles match by guys without WWE experience? Are MJF, Sammy, Darby, Luchasaurus, Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Omega, Jungle Boy, the Bucks (LOL to those that winced when they read this one), and the like incapable of main eventing?


They need to build these guys up first, they can't just put all these guys in the main event straight away. 

If it gets to 2023 and we're still seeing former WWE constantly in the main events and nobody homegrown then I'd see your point, but just gotta be patient. That's the problem with this generation (not you specifically) there's no patience.


----------



## The Wood

You can get someone over within six weeks. They could have made several homegrown talents by now if they were smart. Who are they building? No one gets any better off than when they started.


----------



## Pippen94

Section seems to be entirely anti aew


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Boldgerg said:


> One part of one of my posts references the fact that people were asking for Brodie Lee and for years wanted him to be given an opportunity, and the second he's got thay people are slagging him for being "rammed down our throats" and bitching about how he's another WWE guy being pushed too hard (even though he's not). It's laughably contradictory.
> 
> I disagree entirely that they push "WWE guys" too much, and I'm still yet to hear a logical reason as to why everyone is so obsessed with that point anyway. Talent and ability to entertain should be all that matters, not where a wrestler has worked in the past. I'd also be pretty fucked off and think the fans were whiney little dick heads if I was an ex-WWE wrestler looking to move my career forward and I was being immediately trashed because of where I'd worked prior to AEW. It's honestly a bizarre, nonsensical mindset and another ridiculous trait of the modern day wrestling fan.
> 
> Everyone takes things too seriously, everyone takes themselves and their fandom too seriously, everyone tries to analyse the business like an expert and everyone looks for reasons to complain off the back of all of those things. That's not to say there aren't things wrong with AEW because there definitely are, but they boil down to the good old simplicities of how people are being utilised and creative direction, not ridiculous crap like people trying to concern themselves with company finances and how much money they assume AEW is "wasting" on ex-WWE talent and the baseless presumption that it's stopping the company from signing guys that they have decided are more worthy of a place on the roster.
> 
> I didn't see anything where the Tyson and Jericho stuff was referred to as WWE, but if it was then I'm not sure why it's particularly surprising? AEW has been on TV for 9 months and WWE effectively cornered the wrestling market in the western world for almost two decades. It's going to be a long time before those with only a very casual interest in wrestling or those who simply happen upon some wrestling news don't instantly think "WWE". It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of ex-WWE wrestlers on the roster.


People slagged him for being rammed down our throats because he sucks and his gimmick is bad. I don't know how many more times I can say that. I've never said he's pushed too hard but I'd probably lean towards it being too soon for him to lose and put over Moxley 6 weeks into his stay if they were ever remotely serious about him being a main event guy.

WWE guy is easy. If we wanted WWE we'd go and watch WWE Many WWE guys are taking spots off guys who could be future stars. AEW has missed out on a heap of talent that have jumped to Impact, NXT, ROH or WWE and have the worst midcard in big time wrestling

Not only that but as I said before it makes them look like the WWE. If I was a casual fan and I heard about a new wrestling show with Ambrose, Cody and Jericho leading the charge as they regularly compete against the likes of Brodie Lee, Lance Archer and Jack Swagger I would assume it was a WWE brand. 




ripcitydisciple said:


> Maybe don't be a Fair Weather Fan.


What does this even mean?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> You can get someone over within six weeks. They could have made several homegrown talents by now if they were smart. Who are they building? No one gets any better off than when they started.


Oh sure, you can get homegrown guys over asap, thats why no company has done it since John Cena, but cool.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Section seems to be entirely anti aew


weird, right?

do you thing it coincides with the rest of the board being dead and people saying ‘well then, nobody is allowed to have nice things’


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Oh sure, you can get homegrown guys over asap, thats why no company has done it since John Cena, but cool.


WWE hasn't got anyone over since 2002-2003 with John Cena?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

We getting that 50+ demo nowww baaayybeeeeeee


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285432221655093248


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Big Money Mox about to Kill NXT again. Good to have the top draw back.

Liking the layout of AEW this week with squash matches for MJF and Hangman, and 2 promo segments with TAZ and Moxley, hopefully they execute a good show.

On top of that Dynamite this week has Cody title defense and Jericho and Hagar Vs. JE, not stacked, but sounds like a fun episode of Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Big Money Mox about to Kill NXT again. Good to have the top draw back.
> 
> Liking the layout of AEW this week with squash matches for MJF and Hangman, and 2 promo segments with TAZ and Moxley, hopefully they execute a good show.


wonder who is next in line

guessing we move to MJF finally now - since he also has ‘something to say’


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wonder who is next in line
> 
> guessing we move to MJF finally now - since he also has ‘something to say’


MJF for sure, the trolling on twitter is a give away on that, build should be fun.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> But no one that I see is suggesting not having WWE talent. You have the WWE talent, and the millions of fans that know their names from their time in The Machine, and you use them to make names of those more talented guys who simply chose to not go the WWE route.
> 
> To this point, how many shows, Dynamite or PPV, have ended with Elsewhere Wrestler vs Elsewhere Wrestler? WWE guys who feel Vince has misused them supposed to just get pushed straight into the main event scene to work opposite the other WWE guy? Jake Hager’s first big match comes against Dustin; that couldn’t have been maybe a Darby Allin who Hager cheated out of the world title?
> 
> Luke Harper going straight to a title match and Matt Hardy starring opposite Jericho in an IC vs Elite storyline are both terrible use of the WWE star power.


I feel the need to point out that many people did not "choose" not to go to the WWE. Many looked too much like average audience members to be considered. Of course recently, many talented people knew better than to go too, so this is an individual case by case thing.

How many main events SHOULD end with non-WWE guys? Going forward, sure because there are actual alternatives now. But for awhile there was WWE and there was the high school gym in this country. 

And that whole situation sucks because WWE did and does misuse guys. So both points of view are somewhat valid to me.

People debuting need to make a splash, AEW just has no idea how to do steps 2-10 of that process. They can bring someone in, have one match then they have no idea what to do next.

Their use of Matt Hardy is a good example. Matt Hardy is someone who SHOULD have come in and made a splash because he is someone people know. But he came in and did goofy stuff. And after that, he beats potential stars like Santana. It is more about what they have the people who come in do, than who they are. If Brodie Lee came in and was not part of the worst story line they have, I would be wanting him to win more.

But still, keeping a tally of who is an ex-WWE guy in a negative way is weird to me. Does working for the #1 company in the industry you are in taint you somehow? How does that work? When people come to work in my company who used to work for the competitor, should I look at them funny or give them less opportunities?


----------



## bdon

No, Matt Hardy should come in and immediately be used to put over guys like Santana and Ortiz, giving Kenny Omega the rub for saving Broken (Down) Matt Hardy’s ass.

Instead, Hardy forces Omega to be the one taking bumps, and Hardy receives 2 kicks, a punch, and a back body drop before picking up the pinfall while also making Sammy Guevara look like a joke.

No midcarder from WWE should enter the fray and immediately go to a goddamn world title shot like Brodie Lee did. No midcard tag team guy who was the lesser half like Matt Hardy should come into the fray and be the star goddamn protagonist in a 6 month feud between Inner Circle and Elite. You bring those guys in, use them in an angle, but you use the eyes that are following them from WWE to help put eyes on better, younger talent.

This shit isn’t hard. FTR? Strap a rocket to them. Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy? Put over younger talent.

By immediately sending every WWE guy straight into the starring role of whatever angle you have for them, you are telling your audience that WWE is still the best. Why would anyone believe Omega is worth a goddamn when Broken (Down) Matt Hardy is saving his ass? Why is MJF or Hangman Page worth a fuck if they just got passed up by the WWE guy we already know?

This shit matters.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Matt Hardy has still never been pinned or submitted in AEW. Say no more.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> FTR? Strap a rocket to them


nope. They should not have the titles yet


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Matt Hardy has still never been pinned or submitted in AEW. Say no more.


5-1 is hardly beast mode booking if you think of the matches, opponents and time period

by this time he would‘ve put over Sammy already, if what happened didn’t happen


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Section seems to be entirely anti aew


Firstly, that’s not true. There’s a difference between being critical and being “anti” something. But what does that tell you? Maybe that AEW isn’t holding up so we



TKO Wrestling said:


> Oh sure, you can get homegrown guys over asap, thats why no company has done it since John Cena, but cool.


There hasn’t been a fucking sizeable promotion since WCW. Why do people always gloss over that when talking about these things.

“AEW is the biggest wrestling promotion not the WWE since 2001!” Yeah, no shit.

Also, the WWE has had plenty of over people not named John Cena.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> 5-1 is hardly beast mode booking if you think of the matches, opponents and time period
> 
> by this time he would‘ve put over Sammy already, if what happened didn’t happen


Matt Hardy is 5-1?!? Holy shit.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Matt Hardy has still never been pinned or submitted in AEW. Say no more.


_mic drop_


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> weird, right?
> 
> do you thing it coincides with the rest of the board being dead and people saying ‘well then, nobody is allowed to have nice things’


It coincides more with you guys being unable to tell the difference between hate and criticisms and in turn blowing up every time someone has a problem with AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> _mic drop_


really? Just pick the mic back up and maybe get the guy into double digit matches


----------



## omaroo

AEW ain't perfect. It has ALOT of issues.

Still prefer it to WWE.

But lets not pretend its an "alternative" when it isn't. I find it too similar to WWE with some of the shit they do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> AEW ain't perfect. It has ALOT of issues.
> 
> Still prefer it to WWE.
> 
> But lets not pretend its an "alternative" when it isn't. I find it too similar to WWE with some of the shit they do.


anything that is not the thing, is in fact alternative

alternative doesn’t mean different, it mean ‘another option’

i happen to think they are both different in a lot of things, and ‘another option’


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> anything that is not the thing, is in fact alternative
> 
> alternative doesn’t mean different, it mean ‘another option’
> 
> i happen to think they are both different in a lot of things, and ‘another option’


Thtas your opinion just like its mine.

I dont see much different in AEW. They had a chance to but something unique and different but they have blown it imo.

It doesnt help when you have wrestlers booking etc and having an owner who is too busy arugeing on social media instead of putting a product out which is entertaining.

One thing I will never understand is how they are trying put a spot light on jobbers and untalented wrestlers and believing they will become good. Where such wrestlers suck that cant be changed.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> *One thing I will never understand is how they are trying put a spot light on jobbers and untalented wrestlers and believing they will become good. Where such wrestlers suck that cant be changed.*


isn’t that different?


----------



## NXT Only

When I watch AEW I dont see WWE honestly. But then again I haven't watched a RAW or SD in a long time.


----------



## 3venflow

I don't get that either. AEW has more variety in terms of match and promo styles. WWE has factory trained many of its wrestlers to work a clean, functional but ultimately boring style. I'd say there's more professionalism in how WWE matches are worked (ie. less blown spots and awkward moments), but it's just very stale. AEW is more of a mishmash like WCW was. There's a clear difference in the feel of the products to me.


----------



## omaroo

I loved WCW back in the mid 90s. Now that was a special promotion. Completely different to what WWF was doing. Thats what made WCW special. Amazing roster, great wrestling, great characters and great storylines.

AEW will never be WCW or reach their level lets be honest. But they should thrive to be different to WWE as WCW was to WWF.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> anything that is not the thing, is in fact alternative
> 
> alternative doesn’t mean different, it mean ‘another option’
> 
> i happen to think they are both different in a lot of things, and ‘another option’


Why do AEW fans completely ignore the implied “good.” Getting your fingers broken is not a good alternative to getting a kneecap broken.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Why do AEW fans completely ignore the implied “good.” Getting your fingers broken is not a good alternative to getting a kneecap broken.


Good is subjective Wood. 

Our good is your bad but you continuously ignore that point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good. Get your ass over to Impact the best wrestling show in North America.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good. Get your ass over to Impact the best wrestling show in North America.


dude, have you just gone full troll mode now?

just go talk about impact on the impact boards - its there for it


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good. Get your ass over to Impact the best wrestling show in North America.


Lol I love you man.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, have you just gone full troll mode now?
> 
> just go talk about impact on the impact boards - its there for it


He loves AEW, he ain’t going anywhere.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, have you just gone full troll mode now?
> 
> just go talk about impact on the impact boards - its there for it


No, I don't troll I take pride in being a serious poster.

I am talking Impact on the Impact boards but if people are going to say AEW sucks and they don't want to watch it I'm of course going to pitch Impact to them. If they say they want alternative why would I not point them in the right direction? I wish someone had pointed me in their direction much sooner.



NXT Only said:


> He loves AEW, he ain’t going anywhere.


Yes and no.

I love the idea of AEW I think. I watch Impact or old WCW/WWF shows and think to myself what if in regards to AEW. If they tore out their midcard, replaced it with talented guys who do serious wrestling and had a management team that could make the shows compelling and exciting I'd absolutely adore AEW. A serious Jericho, Moxley, Cody etc every week would really get me pumped up.

I do feel like I get 3-5 good segments a week out of AEW which keeps me watching plus I enjoy the conversation over here as well so I'll probably never leave this board unless I give up on AEW entirely.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> No, I don't troll I take pride in being a serious poster.
> 
> I am talking Impact on the Impact boards but if people are going to say AEW sucks and they don't want to watch it I'm of course going to pitch Impact to them. If they say they want alternative why would I not point them in the right direction? I wish someone had pointed me in their direction much sooner.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no.
> 
> I love the idea of AEW I think. I watch Impact or old WCW/WWF shows and think to myself what if in regards to AEW. If they tore out their midcard, replaced it with talented guys who do serious wrestling and had a management team that could make the shows compelling and exciting I'd absolutely adore AEW. A serious Jericho, Moxley, Cody etc every week would really get me pumped up.
> 
> I do feel like I get 3-5 good segments a week out of AEW which keeps me watching plus I enjoy the conversation over here as well so I'll probably never leave this board unless I give up on AEW entirely.


no one is asking you to pitch on the public AEW boards

DM whomever you want and pitch away - i hope more people watch impact. but have some basic poster decorum


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no one is asking you to pitch on the public AEW boards
> 
> DM whomever you want and pitch away - i hope more people watch impact. but have some basic poster decorum


You don't want me to. Again, if someone says they don't like AEW and that they want an alternative I'll pitch anything I want unless a moderator asks me not to. Nobody had an issue with me suggesting NWA Powerrr to DollaDrew (Who to his credit actually checked it out) or mentioning other promotions in the past but suddenly it's "No, don't suggest Impact here!"

You guys were talking about alternatives I suggested a good alternative to WWE. You've made it a much bigger deal than it had to be


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't want me to. Again, if someone says they don't like AEW and that they want an alternative I'll pitch anything I want unless a moderator asks me not to. Nobody had an issue with me suggesting NWA Powerrr to DollaDrew (Who to his credit actually checked it out) or mentioning other promotions in the past but suddenly it's "No, don't suggest Impact here!"
> 
> You guys were talking about alternatives I suggested a good alternative to WWE. You've made it a much bigger deal than it had to be


you know there is a big difference between suggesting a new show and condescendingly telling people ‘i feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good....rather watch ABC’

the one is fine and the other one is shitposting, spammy and bait


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you know there is a big difference between suggesting a new show and condescendingly telling people ‘i feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good....rather watch ABC’
> 
> the one is fine and the other one is shitposting, spammy and bait


It's not a secret that I don't think AEW is a successful alternative. It does make me feel bad that people think that AEW is their only alternative that's not spammy or baiting at all instead factual. I was in the same boat a month ago also thinking that AEW was my only alternative and I know many others on here feel that way.

Apologies if you felt it was baiting that wasn't my intention at all.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel bad for anyone who thinks the majority of AEW is good. Get your ass over to Impact the best wrestling show in North America.


Really my guy? This is the kind of poster you're gonna be now?


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Good is subjective Wood.
> 
> Our good is your bad but you continuously ignore that point.


Your idea of good doesn’t draw and is going to leave us with no alternative.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Your idea of good doesn’t draw and is going to leave us with no alternative.


Plus some people might consider getting their fingers broken to be good. Since everything is subjective now apparently.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Your idea of good doesn’t draw and is going to leave us with no alternative.


nah, just look around in this thread

Impact is still a viable alternative


----------



## zkorejo

Impact is so much better than AEW. 

They have been uploading EC3 videos on their YT channel and in the opening of the show, yet when he shows up Michael Cole Jr. screams "He doesn't even work here guiz : O" like 3 times.

Yet entire Omega story is shit just solely based on the fact he was interacting with a skinny little guy.

Their last real champion was a woman who beat Sami Callihan clean 1 on 1. Yet its AEW thats unrealistic and insults intelligence.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Impact vs AEW fanboys war,


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> Your idea of good doesn’t draw and is going to leave us with no alternative.


AEW isn't going anywhere. You're concerned with the wrong things. You're simply upset they won't cater to your wants.


----------



## NXT Only

Lheurch said:


> Plus some people might consider getting their fingers broken to be good. Since everything is subjective now apparently.


So AEW is the equivalent to getting your fingers broken.


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> So AEW is the equivalent to getting your fingers broken.


Oh look, classic false equivalence fallacy. Obviously not. But saying some of the things they do are objectively bad is true in the same way that breaking fingers is objectively bad. Most things are subjective, but not all things are.


----------



## NXT Only

Lheurch said:


> Oh look, classic false equivalence fallacy. Obviously not. But saying some of the things they do are objectively bad is true in the same way that breaking fingers is objectively bad. Most things are subjective, but not all things are.


But when discussing AEW there's the possibility that some things that are good to some are bad to others?


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> But when discussing AEW there's the possibility that some things that are good to some are bad to others?


Yes, of course. I have stated many times I understand there are people that actually like the Young Bucks car crash style. I hate it, but I know many do not. But there are things that are objectively bad for a company's health and business too.


----------



## NXT Only

Lheurch said:


> But there are things that are objectively bad for a company's health and business too.


Like?


----------



## One Shed

NXT Only said:


> Like?


Putting a skinny goof who looks like a below average audience member anywhere near your top star. Having a small child get moves in on adults.

People can like OC all they want, that is subjective. But you hurt your overall business when you create an atmosphere where non-serious people are portrayed as threats to your top talent. You never want to portray yourself as "minor league" in an industry even if you are. You always need to get rid of your bottom 10% of people every year.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

OC thing is so crazy to me, he pulled two poor quarter hour numbers and people want him gone. If people lived and died a few of their quarter hour ratings, man, there are a lot of people on RAW, Smackdown and NXT that need to get canned.


----------



## zkorejo

Lheurch said:


> Putting a skinny goof who looks like a below average audience member anywhere near your top star. Having a small child get moves in on adults.
> 
> People can like OC all they want, that is subjective. But you hurt your overall business when you create an atmosphere where non-serious people are portrayed as threats to your top talent. You never want to portray yourself as "minor league" in an industry even if you are. You always need to get rid of your bottom 10% of people every year.


TK said this in the ESPN interview:



> "He's become, organically, a big merchandise mover, and he's been in some very high-rated television segments," said Khan. "It's not inaccurate at all to say that TNT loves him."


Saying he's the bottom 10% is factually incorrect when he's making them money.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> Saying he's the bottom 10% is factually incorrect when he's making them money.


I meant those to be two separate statements. You should not have OC anywhere near your top star. You also need to get rid of your bottom 10%. I did not mean to imply OC was part of the bottom 10% performance-wise.


----------



## rbl85

A wrestler like OC does not need to be in the main event to be really popular and to sell a lot of merchandise.


----------



## zkorejo

rbl85 said:


> A wrestler like OC does not need to be in the main event to be really popular and to sell a lot of merchandise.


His feud with Jericho was meant to be upper-midcard. Was only moved up to ME because Mox had to pull out. Its not like they are giving him a world championship star level mainevent run. Its a midcard feud.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> His feud with Jericho was meant to be upper-midcard. Was only moved up to ME because Mox had to pull out. Its not like they are giving him a world championship star level mainevent run. Its a midcard feud.


Another flag to plant. Jericho is their top known star so it is automatically a top tier feud. And now they are going to be stubborn and keep it going. I wish people could call out the dumb while still liking the product overall.


----------



## zkorejo

Lheurch said:


> Another flag to plant. Jericho is their top known star so it is automatically a top tier feud. And now they are going to be stubborn and keep it going. I wish people could call out the dumb while still liking the product overall.


Well thats how you create stars.. you have them feud with your stars who help build them. The problem you and many here have with OC is, you dont think he's "fit" to be getting those opportunities because he is a "skinny geek". TK will push him if people like him and he makes AEW money, simple as that. 

He is running a business and it makes sense to build a guy who makes him money and attracts viewers (which OC does). If he was universally seen as a "geek who has no place against a star" then people wouldn't be interested in him thus far. Suppose he loses all the popularity tomorrow and TK insists on continue to give him upper midcard feuds with the likes of Jericho, then yes I will be right there with you.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> Well thats how you create stars.. you have them feud with your stars who help build them. The problem you and many here have with OC is, you dont think he's "fit" to be getting those opportunities because he is a "skinny geek". TK will push him if people like him and he makes AEW money, simple as that.
> 
> He is running a business and it makes sense to build a guy who makes him money and attracts viewers (which OC does). If he was universally seen as a "geek who has no place against a star" then people wouldn't be interested in him thus far. Suppose he loses all the popularity tomorrow and TK insists on continue to give him upper midcard feuds with the likes of Jericho, then yes I will be right there with you.


Right, that is how you create stars and Jericho could be doing that right now instead of working with the skinny geek. There are plenty of midcard and lower guys I have liked over the years and been interested in, but if they started feuding with Hogan, Austin, or Rock it would have made zero sense. Mysterio is a good example. I am a huge fan of his, but I HATED when they made him world champ. It hurt the credibility of the company. Give me a Rey Mysterio match any day of the week...but not against Big Show!

OC makes him money, but if he wants to grow the business he needs to do better long term strategy and planning. OC beating a large dude with one punch and almost beating Jericho is not going to bring in new fans. And I truly believe they are going to have him BEAT Jericho now.


----------



## zkorejo

Lheurch said:


> Right, that is how you create stars and Jericho could be doing that right now instead of working with the skinny geek. There are plenty of midcard and lower guys I have liked over the years and been interested in, but if they started feuding with Hogan, Austin, or Rock it would have made zero sense. Mysterio is a good example. I am a huge fan of his, but I HATED when they made him world champ. It hurt the credibility of the company. Give me a Rey Mysterio match any day of the week...but not against Big Show!
> 
> OC makes him money, but if he wants to grow the business he needs to do better long term strategy and planning. OC beating a large dude with one punch and almost beating Jericho is not going to bring in new fans. And I truly believe they are going to have him BEAT Jericho now.


I dont think he's beating Jericho. Maybe come very close but will lose. I dont think Cassidy is ready for that big of a win. Unless Jericho is taking a leave for a while.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> I dont think he's beating Jericho. Maybe come very close but will lose. I dont think Cassidy is ready for that big of a win. Unless Jericho is taking a leave for a while.


He already came close but lost. What would be the point of doing it again if he is not winning? If Jericho is taking time off (I think he originally was to tour with his band but obviously COVID changed that) and they have OC of all people take him out instead of making someone who should be a star, a star...I really will be at a loss for words.


----------



## zkorejo

Lheurch said:


> He already came close but lost. What would be the point of doing it again if he is not winning? If Jericho is taking time off (I think he originally was to tour with his band but obviously COVID changed that) and they have OC of all people take him out instead of making someone who should be a star, a star...I really will be at a loss for words.


I like OC, but I think beating Jericho at this point of his career is too early. It will hurt Jericho more than it will help OC.

A good showing against established names does help the young talent. Ala Taker/Hardy, like how Darby cant beat Cody. Besides there's inner circle there, they can do alot of different finishes for the match. The match definitely doesnt need a clean decisive finish for any of the two.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> I like OC, but I think beating Jericho at this point of his career is too early. It will hurt Jericho more than it will help OC.
> 
> A good showing against established names does help the young talent. Ala Taker/Hardy, like how Darby cant beat Cody. Besides there's inner circle there, they can do alot of different finishes for the match. The match definitely doesnt need a clean decisive finish for any of the two.


It was already bad enough that Jericho could not even beat him clean the first time.

I am all for having good showings for young talent against vets. That is exactly what Jericho should be doing. But if even OC can beat/almost beat Jericho, almost everyone should too right?


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> He already came close but lost. What would be the point of doing it again if he is not winning? If Jericho is taking time off (I think he originally was to tour with his band but obviously COVID changed that) and they have OC of all people take him out instead of making someone who should be a star, a star...I really will be at a loss for words.


I doubt he actually beats Jericho clean. A dirty loss though I would be fine with. I think it would be a bad call and I will be one of the first to admit that its a stupid decision if it happens. This would have been the perfect time for PAC to come back as Death Triangle was feuding with OC and Best Friends before PAC got stuck in England. Seeing as it can't be PAC, I would have Sammy Guevara turn on Jericho and screw him if OC has to win. Something reminiscent of when Eugene beat Triple H ONLY because of Orton's interference. But putting him over Jericho 100% clean is way too early and would be a creative blunder. As far as OC coming as close as he has, I don't mind that too much. Not at this point when Jericho is gonna be 50 years old this year. He's getting up there. I doubt he even gets another world title run honestly. By the time Hangman, Omega, PAC, MJF, Moxley again, and Cody have world title runs, Jericho will be thinking about retirement if he hasn't been already (not saying that is a reason to justify OC going over clean).


----------



## zkorejo

Lheurch said:


> It was already bad enough that Jericho could not even beat him clean the first time.
> 
> I am all for having good showings for young talent against vets. That is exactly what Jericho should be doing. But if even OC can beat/almost beat Jericho, almost everyone should too right?


That depends. Darby, Jungle Boy, MJF, Scorpio Sky Yes.. they should all be able have a good showing against Jericho if OC can. Janella, Sonny Kiss, Sabian, Marko etc. Not so much. 

But then again, it all depends on what kind of a story they are trying to tell. Like Sonny Kiss having a solid offense on Cody was not because they are at the same level, but because Cody wasnt taking it seriously and the fact that competing every week against different opponents is getting to him. So the explanation worked, for me atleast.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> I doubt he actually beats Jericho clean. A dirty loss though I would be fine with. I think it would be a bad call and I will be one of the first to admit that its a stupid decision if it happens. This would have been the perfect time for PAC to come back as Death Triangle was feuding with OC and Best Friends before PAC got stuck in England. Seeing as it can't be PAC, I would have Sammy Guevara turn on Jericho and screw him if OC has to win. Something reminiscent of when Eugene beat Triple H ONLY because of Orton's interference. But putting him over Jericho 100% clean is way too early and would be a creative blunder. As far as OC coming as close as he has, I don't mind that too much. Not at this point when Jericho is gonna be 50 years old this year. He's getting up there. I doubt he even gets another world title run honestly. By the time Hangman, Omega, PAC, MJF, Moxley again, and Cody have world title runs, Jericho will be thinking about retirement if he hasn't been already (not saying that is a reason to justify OC going over clean).


Right, that is part of my point. He IS getting up there. He likely has two years left as an active performer. That is 8-10 PPVs. He is their top star and he could be giving that rub to Hangman, PAC, or someone who WILL be a world champ in a couple years or less.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Right, that is part of my point. He IS getting up there. He likely has two years left as an active performer. That is 8-10 PPVs. He is their top star and he could be giving that rub to Hangman, PAC, or someone who WILL be a world champ in a couple years or less.


Yeah I got ya. Putting OC over 100% dirty then putting Sammy over clean would be ideal I think. Hangman is gonna be a huge star regardless and PAC seems like a lifetime heel to me in AEW who will also be a huge star. I'd prefer Sammy to get the clean win as the story is already there. After being upset by Sammy, he could probably get one more guy over like Jungle Boy after building up wins again. The more established guys don't really need the rub though. He already put over Moxley huge.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zkorejo said:


> I like OC, but I think beating Jericho at this point of his career is too early. It will hurt Jericho more than it will help OC.
> 
> A good showing against established names does help the young talent. Ala Taker/Hardy, like how Darby cant beat Cody. Besides there's inner circle there, they can do alot of different finishes for the match. The match definitely doesnt need a clean decisive finish for any of the two.


nothing hurts Jericho

proven over the years he can move up and down the card at will

there was a time in 2013 i think, where pyro / tyrion would always exclaim ‘beating jericho means nothing, he always loses’

and then sure enough, before you know it, he’s top of the card again - its uncanny


----------



## zkorejo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nothing hurts Jericho
> 
> proven over the years he can move up and down the card at will
> 
> there was a time in 2013 i think, where pyro / tyrion would always exclaim ‘beating jericho means nothing, he always loses’
> 
> and then sure enough, before you know it, he’s top of the card again - its uncanny


Jericho always rises back at the top which is commendable. I thought he was done for after that Fandango loss. But the thing is, WWE did that to him because they could afford to, they had alot of big stars/part-timers in that time period. AEW cant take that risk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zkorejo said:


> Jericho always rises back at the top which is commendable. I thought he was done for after that Fandango loss. But the thing is, WWE did that to him because they could afford to, they had alot of big stars/part-timers in that time period. AEW cant take that risk.


isn’t that chicken and egg?

they can’t take risks because they don’t have enough stars

but they have to take risks to make new stars


----------



## The Wood

It’s pretty hilarious that it’s come down to AEW vs. TNA. #squadgoals


----------



## Prosper

AEW is gonna demolish NXT this week, no way anyone changed the channel after that awesome episode


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> AEW is gonna demolish NXT this week, no way anyone changed the channel after that awesome episode


dude - if anybody switched a channel from that start and what they kept on delivering - then the Nielson families need a psychiatry check


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude - if anybody switched a channel from that start and what they kept on delivering - then the Nielson families need a psychiatry check


Gimme 820K this week


----------



## Alright_Mate

Tonight’s show deserves to hit the 900k region.

NXT wasn’t bad, Karrion Kross basically committing murder was a great ending.

AEW though were consistently better from start to finish, and they comfortably deserve to win the ratings battle this week.


----------



## TD Stinger

I ain’t even gonna predict ratings because their better shows seem like they always do worse than expectations.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> AEW is gonna demolish NXT this week, no way anyone changed the channel after that awesome episode


After last week I decided I don't care anymore. Was told that Kingston was the challenger so I switched on. I was going to switch off when something dumb happened and I ended up sticking around for the entire episode. It was a good episode and it should reflect in the ratings but who knows


----------



## SPCDRI

I haven't seen NXT yet, but AEW was smoking tonight. That's the best show they've had in months. I think the main event not being Moxley in a title match will hurt, that's about the biggest thing they can do, but if this isn't over 700k, I don't know to say.


----------



## Pippen94

Good episode doesn't mean good ratings as we've seen in past.
Kingston is great on mic


----------



## thorn123

I hope the ratings reflect how good that show was


----------



## The Wood

If you think Orange Cassidy is a good idea, then you are just wrong. There’s nothing subjective about it. I’m sick of this idea that we’re supposed to tippy toe around it to spare feelings. It’s bad television. It doesn’t hurt as much in the main event, and the sort of fan you don’t want to gauge by is going to buy his t-shirt ironically, but it’s detriment to your overall health. That’s just not debatable at this point.


----------



## NXT Only

DaveRA said:


> I hope the ratings reflect how good that show was


Ill be interested in seeing the quarterly. A lot of us were thinking they maintained their audience throughout because the energy was high. I can see a drop in Hour 2 since women’s matches typically drop.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> If you think Orange Cassidy is a good idea, then you are just wrong. There’s nothing subjective about it. I’m sick of this idea that we’re supposed to tippy toe around it to spare feelings. It’s bad television. It doesn’t hurt as much in the main event, and the sort of fan you don’t want to gauge by is going to buy his t-shirt ironically, but it’s detriment to your overall health. That’s just not debatable at this point.


What the hell are you complaining about now?


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> If you think Orange Cassidy is a good idea, then you are just wrong. There’s nothing subjective about it. I’m sick of this idea that we’re supposed to tippy toe around it to spare feelings. It’s bad television. It doesn’t hurt as much in the main event, and the sort of fan you don’t want to gauge by is going to buy his t-shirt ironically, but it’s detriment to your overall health. That’s just not debatable at this point.


It is debatable, to think your opinion Is the only opinion that matters is arrogant.


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> Ill be interested in seeing the quarterly. A lot of us were thinking they maintained their audience throughout because the energy was high. I can see a drop in Hour 2 since women’s matches typically drop.


Depends on who are the women because most of the times Shida matches gain quite a lot of viewers


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> It is debatable, to think your opinion Is the only opinion that matters is arrogant.


It’s demonstrable. Some things are based on reason and have evidence supporting them.

Good shows don’t always mean good ratings. Bad shows don’t always mean bad ratings. The content of one week can affect another week. It’s possible people didn’t tune in to witness this week if they didn’t like last week. It’s possible that people who like AEW have been conditioned to like a product that makes less sense. People are too reactionary about ratings.


----------



## Erik.

It SHOULD go up.

But history tells us that it goes down this week -so I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## Aedubya

Ill guess 0.79
As we all know , great show = great rating does not apply


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uhmmm - great show, ratings won‘t reflect it - except if the buzz about the ‘top independent‘ got people to tune in

then i recon they keep their starting audience for the night - except maybe losing a bit in the main event, which was the weakest part of the show

above 800k - 820?

0.29

but in the Top 3 on the ratings list for the night

no Nascar, no UFC i think

MTV Challenge / Housewives having season finales last week - not being on this week

mmmm.... they might get 900 / 0.32 if all the pieces fall in place


----------



## Dizzie

It would not surprise me if it goes down this week due to the knock on effect of last week's show leaving a bad taste in the mouth for many fans.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Usually the ratings aren't making any sense.
So probably 680K-700.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> It would not surprise me if it goes down this week due to the knock on effect of last week's show leaving a bad taste in the mouth for many fans.


think you might need to recheck that - last week was a success in most fans eyes - rave reviews on twitter

its just here it gets nitpicked to death


----------



## Dizzie

LifeInCattleClass said:


> think you might need to recheck that - last week was a success in most fans eyes - rave reviews on twitter
> 
> its just here it gets nitpicked to death


i usually give aew fair leeway but even I found last weeks show really poor but everyone has their own opinions on what makes a good wrestling show, hopefully the rating does well though this week to reward what they produced last night


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> i usually give aew fair leeway but even I found last weeks show really poor but everyone has their own opinions on what makes a good wrestling show, hopefully the rating does well though this week to reward what they produced last night


personally i thought of the last 4 weeks, that night 2 of Fyter was the weakest by some stretch

but as you say, different strokes

seems like all agree that last night was the best of all 4 weeks


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Upset Moxley didn't have a bigger focus, I think because of that they will go down quite a bit, maybe 710k.

I loved the show tho and thought it was incredibly engaging, had NBA not started next week, next weeks rating would've been big with the tornado tag and 10-man tag.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> It’s demonstrable. Some things are based on reason and have evidence supporting them.
> 
> Good shows don’t always mean good ratings. Bad shows don’t always mean bad ratings. The content of one week can affect another week. It’s possible people didn’t tune in to witness this week if they didn’t like last week. It’s possible that people who like AEW have been conditioned to like a product that makes less sense. *People are too reactionary about ratings.*


Lol you don't get to say this when half of the posts in the 394 pages in this thread belong to you


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol you don't get to say this when half of the posts in the 394 pages in this thread belong to you


How so? Just because I post in here it doesn’t mean I advocate being reactionary? What a weird thing to suggest.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> How so? Just because I post in here it doesn’t mean I advocate being reactionary? What a weird thing to suggest.


Not saying that you're reactionary or that you advocate for it, just saying that you shouldn't point to others as being that way if most of the ratings discussion stems from you. If you're half the discussion, then you're contributing the most to whatever you're seeing lol. This isn't a stab at you by the way.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Not saying that you're reactionary or that you advocate for it, just saying that you shouldn't point to others as being that way if most of the ratings discussion stems from you. If you're half the discussion, then you're contributing the most to whatever you're seeing lol. This isn't a stab at you by the way.


Okay, I won’t take it as a stab, but discussing the ratings is not the same thing as being reactionary to them, lol. Sorry, I just don’t follow you here, haha.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> It’s demonstrable. Some things are based on reason and have evidence supporting them.
> 
> Good shows don’t always mean good ratings. Bad shows don’t always mean bad ratings. The content of one week can affect another week. It’s possible people didn’t tune in to witness this week if they didn’t like last week. It’s possible that people who like AEW have been conditioned to like a product that makes less sense. People are too reactionary about ratings.


Yup. I have said this too many times. It is more likely next week's rating is more affected by this week. But there is a good chance no one with a "box" switched channels either.


----------



## NXT Only

Y’all have to stop letting ratings dictate the quality of shows honestly. When a week y’all hate does bad it’s AEW is turning fans away and if the week you like does bad it’s because fans had a bad taste after last week. Stop trying to control the narratives.

Last weeks show peaked at 844K, fans weren’t turned off by it they enjoyed it heavily. This week was promoted well and they had all the top guys available for the most part. It should do numbers and if it doesn’t the that’s okay because the people who did watch got to enjoy a good show.


----------



## TD Stinger

I mean they didn't promote anything like a Mox vs. Cage match title match so I expect the rating to just naturally go down. Though I expect them to still beat NXT fairly handily again, but we'll see.

I watched both shows simultaneously last night and they were both pretty good, but AEW was just operating on a different playing field last night.


----------



## rexmundi

There has been a trend to see promos under perform in ratings, so we'll see how a pretty promo centric AEW did last night. They've been yoyoing in the ratings while NXT has been more consistent save for last week. This will probably be much closer than people expect but AEW put on a very good program last night.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The starting QH ratings are typically a judgement on the previous week unless you are doing a post-PPV show. This week was kind of like a post-PPV show because of the title match last week.

It doesn't make sense to me for them to not open this episode with Mox/Cage/Allin. They waited about 37 minutes before Mox appeared for 10 seconds.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> It SHOULD go up.
> 
> But history tells us that it goes down this week -so I wouldn't be surprised.


Last week was a special episode with a World title match.


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> Last week was a special episode with a World title match.


You're very observant.


----------



## rbl85

rexmundi said:


> There has been a trend to see promos under perform in ratings, so we'll see how a *pretty promo centric AEW* did last night. They've been yoyoing in the ratings while NXT has been more consistent save for last week. This will probably be much closer than people expect but AEW put on a very good program last night.


Not really


----------



## NXT Only

845K for AEW


----------



## IamMark




----------



## NXT Only

615K for NXT


----------



## El Hammerstone

Good number and win for AEW, well deserved.


----------



## NXT Only

They almost tied in the 50+ lol Matt Jackson did it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Poor Keith Lee. Getting clobbered since he became Champ.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Hell yeah, they deserve it.
Show was great.


----------



## NXT Only

Well you guys did say last weeks show dictates next weeks ratings. Fight for the Fallen was a success.


----------



## llj

Every WWE show is struggling and not stopping the bleeding, can't wait for the WWE diehards to blame no crowds again though


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Demo god does it again.

And AEW is dumb stacked next week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT Only said:


> Well you guys did say last weeks show dictates next weeks ratings. Fight for the Fallen was a success.


This weeks show was just structured so fucking well, every segment had a big star outside of the women's match.

Last night to me was a damn near perfect pro-wrestling show.


----------



## NXT Only

I wonder what AEW peaked at. Has to be around 900K at some point.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Poor Keith Lee. Getting clobbered since he became Champ.


Well duh


----------



## NXT Only

RelivingTheShadow said:


> This weeks show was just structured so fucking well, every segment had a big star outside of the women's match.
> 
> Last night to me was a damn near perfect pro-wrestling show.


Yeah I said that. They had someone involved that kept you locked in each time. Cody to MJF to Moxley to Cage to Bucks to Hangman to Archer to Jericho. Just gotta find some consistency with the women.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well duh


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT Only said:


> Yeah I said that. They had someone involved that kept you locked in each time. Cody to MJF to Moxley to Cage to Bucks to Hangman to Archer to Jericho. Just gotta find some consistency with the women.


Britt Baker is a star, Shida is great, just need to round out the division. As controversial as it may be, I don't think Tessa is a bad get.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.29 to 0.32 - that is a big hike

i thought Challenge and Housewives has season over?

0.32 is a pre covid number


----------



## Alright_Mate

Alright_Mate said:


> Tonight’s show deserves to hit the 900k region.
> 
> NXT wasn’t bad, Karrion Kross basically committing murder was a great ending.
> 
> AEW though were consistently better from start to finish, and they comfortably deserve to win the ratings battle this week.


I‘m on good form this week  

Predicted a good show, predicted a good rating and we get both.

Not quite 900k but they pushed it very close.

AEW fully deserved a good rating this week, if they can become consistent on the build up to All Out, then they’ll be hitting 900k soon enough.


----------



## sweepdaleg

My bud just texted me that Sky TV in Italy dropped WWE for AEW. Not sure if that is true. Kind of interesting.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 0.29 to 0.32 - that is a big hike
> 
> i thought Challenge and Housewives has season over?
> 
> 0.32 is a pre covid number


Reunion shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If this os the start of the build to All Out - it might get interesting come Sept


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

sweepdaleg said:


> My bud just texted me that Sky TV in Italy dropped WWE for AEW. Not sure if that is true. Kind of interesting.


They did, Meltzer said it's because WWE charges a ton and their viewership is declining. AEW won't be as strong in viewers but way cheaper.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NXT Only said:


> Reunion shows.


ahhhhh - are the over next week then?

but then NBA starts D’oh!


----------



## AEWMoxley

845K and 0.32 demo is about what they were doing before the pandemic. The first part of the show was rich in star power.

Still disappointed that they haven't started the Moxley vs MJF feud, although the tag match they announced for next week should pull in good numbers.


----------



## DaSlacker

NXT Only said:


> I wonder what AEW peaked at. Has to be around 900K at some point.


I partly feel that as WWE's main roster continues to nosedive, AEW will chip away more and more of its remaining 1.8 million viewers. They've become too much of a embarrassing parody (i.e Eye for an Eye stuff) and too Nickelodeon, whereas AEW at least feels and acts like post 1980's pro wrestling.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 0.29 to 0.32 - that is a big hike
> 
> i thought Challenge and Housewives has season over?
> 
> 0.32 is a pre covid number


Yep. Hope a AEW can keep this up.


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahhhhh - are the over next week then?
> 
> but then NBA starts D’oh!


NBA will start next Thursday. That opener is going to do monstrous numbers. At least Dynamite won't have to go against that.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

This weeks show wasn't even stacked going into it, most people were sour on it going in.

Next weeks show is stacked in comparison, tornado tag is huge, 10 man is big, Shida is in action, Omega and Page defending AND Cody TNT Title defense.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahhhhh - are the over next week then?
> 
> but then NBA starts D’oh!


Would assume so.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well, we definitely ate into the Challenge demo

they normally do 0.54 and now did 0.45

good to see


----------



## Pippen94

Shit - how is nxt still on TV??


----------



## IamMark

sweepdaleg said:


> My bud just texted me that Sky TV in Italy dropped WWE for AEW. Not sure if that is true. Kind of interesting.


I confirm.


----------



## Prosper

Dammnnn good shit AEW!

I was asking for 820K and they did 845K hell yeah. The demo is still all that matters but its good to see overall cable numbers climbing back up. Next week is even more stacked. Gimme 900K next week.

These were the numbers they were doing pre-COVID, it says a lot about AEW to reach those numbers again with no crowd.

There's no way Vince doesn't strip Kieth Lee of the title now. That's the only negative about this for me being an NXT fan too. 615K is terrible, they'll probably drop to under 600k next week. Giving Kross the title won't help, they're gonna have to book main roster talent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well... we’ll just post a couple of memes here for the lols


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391212669370375


----------



## TD Stinger

Safe to say NXT’s hot streak after having 3 weeks of big matches is over. At the moment, besides the women’s division, NXT doesn’t have the depth it did before. Guys like Cole and Ciampa are missing in action right now, Riddle is gone, we don’t know what happening eith Dream, Dunne can’t be there right now, etc.

They still deliver good shows, but AEW did some really good things last night. And I didn’t expect the rating to be this high. Hopefully the momentum can continue.


----------



## rbl85

Now if they have to find a way to get the women to watch the show (it's going to be hard) then we're in for something special


----------



## The XL 2

They just need to keep putting on good shows and they'll be fine. All the ratings are down because of Covid talk is excuses and cope, from both companies. If you put on a exciting, entertaining, logical show, people will watch, period. They need to take advantage of WWEs freefall.


----------



## IamMark

rbl85 said:


> Now if they have to find a way to get the women to watch the show (it's going to be hard) then we're in for something special


easy, have the Spanish God be the next Bachelor. lol


----------



## PavelGaborik

A well deserved very good rating for AEW last night. I feel bad for Keith Lee but the reality is NXT doesn't have the star power to compete with AEW on a consistent basis without leeching off RAW/Smackdown. 

I expect them to start having big names from the other brands appear again in short order.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The XL 2 said:


> They just need to keep putting on good shows and they'll be fine. All the ratings are down because of Covid talk is excuses and cope, from both companies. If you put on a exciting, entertaining, logical show, people will watch, period. They need to take advantage of WWEs freefall.


Boom, agreed 100%.


----------



## MrThortan

Pretty good numbers. Hopefully, AEW will continue to put on quality shows like this one. I know demos are the measuring stick, but it is interesting to see the view count of other shows that I consider crap. I expect AEW will continue to get better, though I am sure there will be some mediocre shows here and there. NXT sure seems to be struggling. How low can it go before their network pulls the plug or moves it to a different time slot. Would be great if they weren't competing head to head, which would probably benefit both companies.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

IamMark said:


> easy, have the Spanish God be the next Bachelor. lol


Oh shit! But I think Wardlow is probably more of "The Bachelor" type lol. Win/win either way for AEW.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well... we’ll just post a couple of memes here for the lols
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391212669370375


----------



## Prosper

sweepdaleg said:


> My bud just texted me that Sky TV in Italy dropped WWE for AEW. Not sure if that is true. Kind of interesting.


Yeah they did I actually made a thread about it.


----------



## Erik.

So pleased for them that they increased on last week - it would be just like the weird Wednesday watching fanbase for AEW to lose viewers next week off the back of this brilliant episode. I mean, if you didn't want to tune in to watch more Dynamite after last night, then what hope do they have in retaining and gaining new viewers?!

They must hit next week out of the park.


----------



## Whoanma

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391206675505152


----------



## taker1986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391217853431808


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286392385782636546


----------



## Erik.

Griff Garrison confirmed draw.

Good on him for pulling double duty last night too.


----------



## taker1986

Pippen94 said:


> Shit - how is nxt still on TV??


It's on TV simply just to slow down AEW's growth. That's all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391206675505152


lol - great minds post alike


----------



## IamMark

nxt will have another announcement next week and say they give up?


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - great minds post alike


----------



## Prosper

If they continue with shows like last night, will they be back over a million live cable viewers by All Out? Or does the return of sports derail the momentum?

A lot of NBA games air on TNT, so they won't be as affected as WWE, but there will still be some kind of effect.

RAW did a 1.5 recently. AEW is not that far off. Mostly because of how terrible RAW is though.


----------



## Erik.

Wait, AEW were #1 OVERALL in the 18-49 demographic!?

Isn't that mightily impressive or something?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Apparently a lot of people online liked the show last night. I personally didn't think it was anything special, but if the general audience agrees with the majority of online fans, that bodes well for them next week. With All Out approaching, it's a good time for them to gain some momentum.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Wait, AEW were #1 OVERALL in the 18-49 demographic!?
> 
> Isn't that mightily impressive or something?


they were 5th in 18-49


----------



## kazarn

Awesome rating and the show delivered big time (it was a damn near perfect show, reminded me of their stretch in february). Hopefully they do even better next week. If last night's show is anything to go by, I think they will do even better.


----------



## Prosper

IamMark said:


> nxt will have another announcement next week and say they give up?


They're gonna call up Goldberg for the show lol.

But if they want to bounce back next week they should just book Sasha Banks vs Shotzi Blackheart. And promote the return of Adam Cole to address Kieth Lee. That will help tremendously in getting them back to the high 600's or low 700's. You're welcome WWE.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they were 5th in 18-49


Ah, might have been Males 18-49.

Still pretty impressive, no?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Here is a stat 

AEW has beaten RAW for the first time in a DEMO

P18-34

AEW 0.18 vs WWE 0.17 in hour 2 and 0.18 in hour 3

first time..... drink it in maaaaannnnn


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Ah, might have been Males 18-49.
> 
> Still pretty impressive, no?


very impressive


----------



## Purple Haze

The demo god murdering NXT again.
That was the best show in a while, they deserve the ratings.


----------



## Chan Hung

AEW Getting a much higher number hopefully will continue to next weeks Big Show


----------



## Erik.

Would buy.


----------



## One Shed

A well deserved win. Amazing what happens when you put on a great show!


----------



## Chan Hung

Whoanma said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391206675505152


LMFAOOOOO Jake narrating while the jobbers are getting killed was EPICCCCCC


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Imagine that, a hot shot, unification title match with 3 weeks of build wasn't something that could be sustainable. AEW is literally building off their TV special, while NXT fell off a fucking cliff.

The need for short term spikes in WWE is why it's going down the shitter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@Erik. - actually, looking into it

0.44 on Males 18-49 is actually REALLY impressive

0.03 points above number 2 and then a massive 0.08 above number 3

the rest after that does not even come close. Now AEW has to get the female watchers and we’re golden

time for heartthrob Brady Pierce


----------



## Mifune Jackson

NXT was only able to overtake them when they fired everything they had, essentially putting PPVs on free TV. Of course, AEW returned fire and did well last week, too with their own stacked cards. 

In the world of the status quo, after NXT ran out of ammo, AEW is dominating. As they should.

It’d be awesome if AEW could find a way to build on its audience, but I guess that’s just a slower climb.


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here is a stat
> 
> AEW has beaten RAW for the first time in a DEMO
> 
> P18-34
> 
> AEW 0.18 vs WWE 0.17 in hour 2 and 0.18 in hour 3
> 
> first time..... drink it in maaaaannnnn


The overall demo is going to be touching tips soon. Didn't SD get 0.42 last week? I mean AEW got 0.32 and NXT got 0.17, what's to say that at least 0.10 of that demo doesn't watch AEW if NXT isn't on air at the same time. 

Anyway, good to see AEW picking up momentum again. Last night's show deserved a good rating. With All Out on the horizon I think we're in for some good shit in the next 2 months.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW is going to beat RAW by the end of the year in 18-49 at this rate, that's fucking shocking to think about.

Brand split will end soon, and that'll stop the erosion for a minute, but your crazy if you think that's a long term solution as evident by WILD CARD.


----------



## NXT Only

Slow build will always prevail. Luckily AEW has more patience than certain segments of the pro wrestling fan base. The build to All-Out is going to be amazing because right now we have no idea what the match ups will be. So many angles they can work.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker1986 said:


> The overall demo is going to be touching tips soon. Didn't SD get 0.42 last week? I mean AEW got 0.32 and NXT got 0.17, what's to say that at least 0.10 of that demo doesn't watch AEW if NXT isn't on air at the same time.
> 
> Anyway, good to see AEW picking up momentum again. Last night's show deserved a good rating. With All Out on the horizon I think we're in for some good shit in the next 2 months.


gently touching tips soon for sure

they want to distract with NXT - but we’re coming after RAW


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Next week card is stacked so hopefully they'll retain the momentum. And people actually said that NXT is not hotshotting lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Food said:


> Absolutely brilliant show the lapsed fans are coming back, honestly episode deserved one million viewers!


they def got way more than 1 mil if we could see DVR +3, +7 and streaming


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they def got way more than 1 mil if we could see DVR +3, +7 and streaming


They wouldn't be far behind Raw at moment if they didnt have NXT on at same time.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW always shits the bed between PPV and television "special" shows. Then in the Road to next PPV 6-7 weeks out when they likely have it all storyboarded through the PPV they hit their stride. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Mad King really set the tone. And they did a lot of pre-taped stuff rather than being middle of ring centric.


----------



## The Wood

Awful rating for NXT and a very unimpressive rating for AEW. Still the same number of people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. _These audiences are not growing._

NXT will swing things back when they put on destination programming. Then fans will feel sorry for AEW and swap back. It’ll be interesting to see how they deal when spott



DaSlacker said:


> I partly feel that as WWE's main roster continues to nosedive, AEW will chip away more and more of its remaining 1.8 million viewers. They've become too much of a embarrassing parody (i.e Eye for an Eye stuff) and too Nickelodeon, whereas AEW at least feels and acts like post 1980's pro wrestling.


Well, this is an ironic post, considering last week had two wrestlers being essentially “slimed.” This is all a parody of wrestling. I’m an advocate for the term “zombie wrestling.” And it’s got an audience of 1.5 million people on a good week. Less popular than the Attitude era hangovers for Raw and SmackDown, but celebrated because it does better than a test pattern on cable.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well... we’ll just post a couple of memes here for the lols
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391212669370375


When you’re getting so excited over 845k and a 0.32 in one demo, it’s, frankly, pathetic.

Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler. That is what people are fist-p



TD Stinger said:


> Safe to say NXT’s hot streak after having 3 weeks of big matches is over. At the moment, besides the women’s division, NXT doesn’t have the depth it did before. Guys like Cole and Ciampa are missing in action right now, Riddle is gone, we don’t know what happening eith Dream, Dunne can’t be there right now, etc.
> 
> They still deliver good shows, but AEW did some really good things last night. And I didn’t expect the rating to be this high. Hopefully the momentum can continue.


Momentum is a strong word. Neither show has made any news fans, and they just keep going round and round. AEW wins when things are bland, and NXT wins when things are tight. NXT started beating AEW out of nowhere, and it will happen again. Then things will go back to the status quo. Probably with less and less people watching over time.



rbl85 said:


> Now if they have to find a way to get the women to watch the show (it's going to be hard) then we're in for something special


“Special” is a very strong word. 845k people is not “special.”


----------



## Not Lying

This is excellent news and next week's show looks great, they're building momentum and i had no doubt in them they could pull the trigger and kick it into high gear when needed. 

lmao at everyone who thought it was the norm now for NXT to beat AEW, they literally had to bring in main roster main eventers and do the absolute biggest match between their top 2 talent to gain short-term viewers win over AEW. They didn't even compete with Moxley when they won lol.


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> gently touching tips soon for sure
> 
> they want to distract with NXT - but we’re coming after RAW


The real feud is Dynamite v Raw. NXT is just a filler feud, like Kurt Angle was a filler feud for The Rock before he met Austin


----------



## InexorableJourney

AEW


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> They wouldn't be far behind Raw at moment if they didnt have NXT on at same time.


agreed - i recon they would’ve maybe been 75% of the way there, instead of 50% (but getting closer)


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Nice uptick in viewers good to see numbers on the uptrend gaining momentum. AEW is only gonna get better no more holding back.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Wood said:


> Awful rating for NXT and a very unimpressive rating for AEW. Still the same number of people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. _These audiences are not growing._
> 
> NXT will swing things back when they put on destination programming. Then fans will feel sorry for AEW and swap back. It’ll be interesting to see how they deal when spott
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is an ironic post, considering last week had two wrestlers being essentially “slimed.” This is all a parody of wrestling. I’m an advocate for the term “zombie wrestling.” And it’s got an audience of 1.5 million people on a good week. Less popular than the Attitude era hangovers for Raw and SmackDown, but celebrated because it does better than a test pattern on cable.
> 
> 
> 
> When you’re getting so excited over 845k and a 0.32 in one demo, it’s, frankly, pathetic.
> 
> Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler. That is what people are fist-p
> 
> 
> 
> Momentum is a strong word. Neither show has made any news fans, and they just keep going round and round. AEW wins when things are bland, and NXT wins when things are tight. NXT started beating AEW out of nowhere, and it will happen again. Then things will go back to the status quo. Probably with less and less people watching over time.
> 
> 
> 
> “Special” is a very strong word. 845k people is not “special.”


STOP. This is pro wrestling, brother. Jump on or get left behind!


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> This is excellent news and next week's show looks great, they're building momentum and i had no doubt in them they could pull the trigger and kick it into high gear when needed.
> 
> lmao at everyone who thought it was the norm now for NXT to beat AEW, they literally had to bring in main roster main eventers and do the absolute biggest match between their top 2 talent to gain short-term viewers win over AEW. They didn't even compete with Moxley when they won lol.


Hang on, this is a weird post.

Which main eventers did they bring in? I don’t even remember at this point. Are you talking about Sasha Banks and Bayley? Because, yeah, no. If you consider them main eventers and that’s all it takes to beat you, then you should be ashamed. 

You could easily flip this and say “Haha, AEW can’t even beat NXT without using main event talent like Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley.” People forget that AEW has the bigger WWE stars, lol. 

Those top two talent were built up through the NXT system. I don’t even know if it counts as the biggest match NXT could even do. But it’s not against the rules if they do load up their shows with top stars are start pounding AEW. I think they’ve avoided doing it so fans wouldn’t call it “cheating.” It could even have a negative effect. They’re probably just better off riding things out and letting the fans get even more over AEW.

I know I said it, and I probably wasn’t the only one, but it was pretty likely there would be a swing back because the hardcore fans that watch would get wind of AEW getting beaten and feel sorry for them. It does happen in television (shows that are announced to be canceled getting an influx of viewers), and when it comes to audiences so niche, they are more likely to be following the news. I don’t think these ratings are indicative of quality or “momentum” as someone put it. That’s why there is no change is overall viewership on the Wednesday. I’m too lazy to check, but I doubt the combined demo is getting bigger either. It’s the same fans swirling around.

People vastly underestimate how much fans are willing AEW along. You’re going to be getting a bit of a false read on quality if you take the ratings are authentic gauges of it. I didn’t watch this week — I was washing my hair — but it’s fortunate for them that it was apparently a better show than what they normally do, so they might get the idea that is the way forward and at least try and replicate that.

But then I saw Cody getting powerbombed onto tacks or glass or something. Haha, try-hards. Keep that spirit of ECW alive! Fucking hell. Talk about being old.


----------



## The Wood

Showstopper said:


> STOP. This is pro wrestling, brother. Jump on or get left behind!


I see what you’re doing there, brother brother.


----------



## RapShepard

I see NXT got their boots smoked. Hate it has to be Lee on top during this


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEW’s the #1 show in the male 18-49 demo. Outstanding. I hope Khan puts them on Monday night.


----------



## Randy Lahey

sweepdaleg said:


> My bud just texted me that Sky TV in Italy dropped WWE for AEW. Not sure if that is true. Kind of interesting.


Yes it’s true Meltzer reported it. WWE charges too much $$$ for too small of ratings. I imagine that overseas attitude will be the prevailing attitude in the US soon enough, 

If you got a show that only appeals to 55+ year olds, you don’t have much of a future.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Adding up NXT and AEW's overall numbers, and they fall short of Raw's third hour this week:

AEW + NXT: 1.460 million
RAW: 1.530 million

We'll see how SD does tomorrow night, I guess.


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW’s the #1 show in the male 18-49 demo. Outstanding. I hope Khan puts them on Monday night.


Actually, that would be really funny. 



Showstopper said:


> Adding up NXT and AEW's overall numbers, and they fall short of Raw's third hour this week:
> 
> AEW + NXT: 1.460 million
> RAW: 1.530 million
> 
> We'll see how SD does tomorrow night, I guess.


Vince must be laughing in over.


----------



## Joe Gill

as long as next week continues with a more serious and intense presentation AEW will easily win.... but if they set the tone next week with some cringe comedy it will be much closer in the ratings. Some of us have been asking for a more mature and serious tone to the show showcasing the non midgets... AEW finally delivered and it was a great show and guess what? a jump in the ratings too. now if tony can grow a pair and start firing the dead weight its not that unrealistic for AEW to beat RAW in the male 18-49 demo by end of year. ...hell they are almost there for the 18-34 demo.


----------



## The Wood

Joe Gill said:


> as long as next week continues with a more serious and intense presentation AEW will easily win.... but if they set the tone next week with some cringe comedy it will be much closer in the ratings. Some of us have been asking for a more mature and serious tone to the show showcasing the non midgets... AEW finally delivered and it was a great show and guess what? a jump in the ratings too. now if tony can grow a pair and start firing the dead weight its not that unrealistic for AEW to beat RAW in the male 18-49 demo by end of year. ...hell they are almost there for the 18-34 demo.


It depends if AEW promotes a women’s match or the AEW fans are conditioned to expect bad wrestling. It’s possible that the better AEW gets, the more of its regular audience is turned away.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW’s the #1 show in the male 18-49 demo. Outstanding. I hope Khan puts them on Monday night.


They still have too much garbage on the roster like Marko Stunt, OC, Dark Order, etc. That's stuff that literally shouldn't be on national television, and it's holding them back.

Cut the fat, and you'll see even better numbers. As it stands, there's still plenty of stuff in the undercard that can kill entire quarter hours.


----------



## Ham and Egger

When the crowds come back, the show will be doin 1 million viewers easy.


----------



## Prosper

Showstopper said:


> Adding up NXT and AEW's overall numbers, and they fall short of Raw's third hour this week:
> 
> AEW + NXT: 1.460 million
> RAW: 1.530 million
> 
> We'll see how SD does tomorrow night, I guess.


This is more of an indication of how terrible RAW is doing. Their baseline should be at 2.0 - 2.2.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> When you’re getting so excited over 845k and a 0.32 in one demo, it’s, frankly, pathetic.
> 
> *Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler. That is what people are fist-p*


.... what does that even mean Woodsy? use your words brother.

ps> what is your opinion about Dynamite beating Raw in one demo for the first time?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Awful rating for NXT and a very unimpressive rating for AEW. Still the same number of people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. _These audiences are not growing._
> 
> NXT will swing things back when they put on destination programming. Then fans will feel sorry for AEW and swap back. It’ll be interesting to see how they deal when spott
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is an ironic post, considering last week had two wrestlers being essentially “slimed.” This is all a parody of wrestling. I’m an advocate for the term “zombie wrestling.” And it’s got an audience of 1.5 million people on a good week. Less popular than the Attitude era hangovers for Raw and SmackDown, but celebrated because it does better than a test pattern on cable.
> 
> 
> 
> When you’re getting so excited over 845k and a 0.32 in one demo, it’s, frankly, pathetic.
> 
> Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler. That is what people are fist-p
> 
> 
> 
> Momentum is a strong word. Neither show has made any news fans, and they just keep going round and round. AEW wins when things are bland, and NXT wins when things are tight. NXT started beating AEW out of nowhere, and it will happen again. Then things will go back to the status quo. Probably with less and less people watching over time.
> 
> 
> 
> “Special” is a very strong word. 845k people is not “special.”


You're hurting bad


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Awful rating for NXT and a very unimpressive rating for AEW. Still the same number of people watching wrestling on a Wednesday. _These audiences are not growing._
> 
> NXT will swing things back when they put on destination programming. Then fans will feel sorry for AEW and swap back. It’ll be interesting to see how they deal when spott
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is an ironic post, considering last week had two wrestlers being essentially “slimed.” This is all a parody of wrestling. I’m an advocate for the term “zombie wrestling.” And it’s got an audience of 1.5 million people on a good week. Less popular than the Attitude era hangovers for Raw and SmackDown, but celebrated because it does better than a test pattern on cable.
> 
> 
> 
> When you’re getting so excited over 845k and a 0.32 in one demo, it’s, frankly, pathetic.
> 
> Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler. That is what people are fist-p
> 
> 
> 
> Momentum is a strong word. Neither show has made any news fans, and they just keep going round and round. AEW wins when things are bland, and NXT wins when things are tight. NXT started beating AEW out of nowhere, and it will happen again. Then things will go back to the status quo. Probably with less and less people watching over time.
> 
> 
> 
> “Special” is a very strong word. 845k people is not “special.”


You can't be this miserable. What are you even doing?


----------



## NXT Only

What else did you guys expect from The Wood?


----------



## Randy Lahey

And to The Wood, you freaking WWE parasite...I’ll tell you what is impressive about AEW’s number.

AEW is back to their pre-Covid numbers.

Now, compare to Raw that has lost an audience that is never coming back. Same with Smackdown.

What will it take for you to admit WWE is a sinking ship (all their shows are trash and their ratings reflect it), while AEW is a company that is 8 months old and has solidified a spot on Cable. Look at the demos that NXT gets. It’s on the way to cancelville.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

prosperwithdeen said:


> This is more of an indication of how terrible RAW is doing. Their baseline should be at 2.0 - 2.2.


I did it because sometimes I see people use that as some kind of factor if it does beat Raw's third hour. Hasn't done that in awhile, though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

NXT Only said:


> What else did you guys expect from The Wood?


If he’s not getting paid by Vince to post on here, I feel sorry for him. 

Or he has his life savings in WWE stock (bad move too).


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW and NXT combined beat RAW in the demo.

What's shocking is going into the show, it was such a barebones lineup, I mean you look at next week? No question it's way more stacked. Question is how much is sports gonna hurt?


----------



## Randy Lahey

RelivingTheShadow said:


> AEW and NXT combined beat RAW in the demo.
> 
> What's shocking is going into the show, it was such a barebones lineup, I mean you look at next week? No question it's way more stacked. Question is how much is sports gonna hurt?


Raw did 0.45 and 0.42.
AEW did 0.32 and NXT 0.17.

So there’s already a bigger demo audience watching wrestling on Wed instead of Monday, which is incredible since Monday has been a wrestling TV night for 25+ years.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> You can't be this miserable. What are you even doing?


Oh he is. And then he wonders why people call him a hater. At least the other guys like Chip and Cult offer constructive criticism and will praise AEW when they are doing good. This guy will shit on them no matter what.

Anyways, super proud of AEW. They got back to pre covid numbers and RAW has lost like 600k fans since March and keep getting their lowest rating ever every few weeks.


----------



## The Wood

Ham and Egger said:


> When the crowds come back, the show will be doin 1 million viewers easy.


Unlikely. 1.5 million on Wednesday seems to be the limit. That will be divided between AEW and NXT, and there seems to be 600k fans who will watch NXT no matter what. The ceiling for AEW is probably 900k viewers. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> .... what does that even mean Woodsy? use your words brother.
> 
> ps> what is your opinion about Dynamite beating Raw in one demo for the first time?


When you post with a phone, sometimes it cuts off what you’re saying. If you used your brain as much as you tell people to use their words, I’m sure you’d be able to figure it out. ;-)

I don’t know which demo they “won” and I think it’s trivial. Raw is an awful, awful show that has to divide its viewership over three LONG hours. I don’t think beating them is that impressive, honestly, and it should be the norm for a wrestling company.

I mean, for as much shit as people talk about “Eye for an Eye,” it’s still way cooler by the metrics. What does that say? 



Pippen94 said:


> You're hurting bad


Yes, my feelings are absolutely hurt by an 845k rating. It just boils my blood. If I did have WWE stock, I’d be pretty relaxed right now, honestly. This is what is cknsidered


----------



## Freezer Geezer

The Wood said:


> They will surely not be able to deny any longer.
> 
> Even with the 10% margin of error completely favouring AEW, that would be 896k to 743k. That's a fucking onslaught. That's pro-wrestling kicking sports entertainment with its hands in its pockets.


This was you two weeks ago, Wood. At least it's been confirmed you're just trolling on this thread now. Ratings only important when it suits you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> When you post with a phone, sometimes it cuts off what you’re saying. If you used your brain as much as you tell people to use their words, I’m sure you’d be able to figure it out. ;-)
> 
> I don’t know which demo they “won” and I think it’s trivial. Raw is an awful, awful show that has to divide its viewership over three LONG hours. I don’t think beating them is that impressive, honestly, and it should be the norm for a wrestling company.
> 
> *I mean, for as much shit as people talk about “Eye for an Eye,” it’s still way cooler by the metrics. What does that say?*


dude.... don’t blame the phone for incoherency - i’m not a rosetta stone to translate what you mean

really - what are you trying to say in the bolded part?

also.... you think it is the norm any wrestling company should beat RAW? Then why hasn’t anybody in 20 years?

personally, i think you might be trying to downplay a significant event in this little fracas


----------



## 304418

This rating is good for AEW. But it’s starting to appear to me that AEW doesn’t really have competition on Wednesdays from NXT. NXT is just _there_. It doesn’t really go up or down in the ratings at all. AEW is basically playing by themselves here on Wednesdays. NXT is irrelevant, it seems. And that's supposed to be the best show that WWE has to offer. WWE should be questioning why are they putting so much effort in counter programming AEW just to get the same ratings week in and week out.

So where does AEW go from here since NXT isn't true competition for them?


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Chip Chipperson said:


> View attachment 88646
> 
> 
> Remember, Triple H knew all along that NXT would eventually consistently beat AEW.





The Wood said:


> Triple H got mocked mercilessly for that. And so did I for pointing out that it makes sense. They were never going to beat AEW with its mobilised fans out the gate. You had to wait for them to book themselves into oblivion and let egos get the best of things. Looks like that’s starting to happen now.
> 
> By the way — and I know bringing him up always gets people’s backs up, but it’s just the truth in this case — Cornette was another guy that had no doubt this would happen.
> 
> Over time, the better content ultimately wins out, all things being equal. That’s not to say MLW will automatically start beating AEW from their platform on BeIn Sports, haha. It just means that AEW is getting puffed and now they’re trying to say that the distance they’ve already run so quickly is the real race.


Another Wood classic from two weeks ago.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

It's almost like the ratings will continue to go up and down and fluctuate a lot. Shock horror.  Nah, it's definitely the start of one show consistently beating the other instead. The Wood said so!


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286430642612314112


----------



## PavelGaborik

Those 2 week old posts from Woody are cringe worthy.

Keep in mind he was also adamant NXT would take over the "ratings war" with AEW "by WrestleMania" 

Take him for what he is at this point - comedic relief.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

.


----------



## Whoanma

This thread has really improved a lot.


----------



## DOTL

Ah. Remember the days when AEW was dying just because NXT beat it in overall viewership for a few weeks?


----------



## Mister Sinister

The needle is as high as you can get without improving the roster. It's about stars. Characters draw. Goldberg is a draw. Tyson is a draw. Hogan is a draw.

Get Goldberg in the ring face to face with Mox, and you've got something combustible.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Oh he is. And then he wonders why people call him a hater. At least the other guys like Chip and Cult offer constructive criticism and will praise AEW when they are doing good. This guy will shit on them no matter what.
> 
> Anyways, super proud of AEW. They got back to pre covid numbers and RAW has lost like 600k fans since March and keep getting their lowest rating ever every few weeks.


The guy harped on and on about AEW never catching up to RAW's "superior" numbers and now that it's looking more and more like it'll happen sooner rather than later, (mostly because of WWE's incompetence), now catching up or beating RAW which is getting 1.5 - 1.7 every week is "unimpressive". AEW, a company that is only 14 months old beating RAW is unimpressive now? And he says that WE are moving the goalposts. That is the biggest moving of a goalpost I have ever seen.

Last week's number was impressive but this week's isn't? Lol. Clearly he's mad AEW exists. Since the beginning of these "Wednesday night wars", every one of us including him debated about ratings within the parameters of the AEW/NXT audience which is combined about 1.5 - 2 million on cable. Now that AEW is climbing back up in their cable numbers, its "pathetic" to consider 845K a good number. And this is a guy who has admitted that he knows cable doesn't represent the entire audience. Is climbing over a million again pathetic now too? Fuck out of here. The guy is a blind hater. Now I know not to ever take him seriously again.

"_Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler._" Lol what a WWE shill. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen the guy hasn't had a single positive thing to say about Dynamite last night. Even the most critical guys on this board have said positive things to say. And we are the ones who hate wrestling? How miserable.



Pippen94 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286430642612314112


This is awesome. Baby steps turning into leaps as the weeks go on.



DOTL said:


> Ah. Remember the days when AEW was dying just because NXT beat it in overall viewership for a few weeks?


Another Wood classic.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> The guy harped on and on about AEW never catching up to RAW's "superior" numbers and now that it's looking more and more like it'll happen sooner rather than later, (mostly because of WWE's incompetence), now catching up or beating RAW which is getting 1.5 - 1.7 every week is "unimpressive". AEW, a company that is only 14 months old beating RAW is unimpressive now? And he says that WE are moving the goalposts. That is the biggest moving of a goalpost I have ever seen.
> 
> Last week's number was impressive but this week's isn't? Lol what a clown. Clearly he's mad AEW exists. Since the beginning of these "Wednesday night wars", every one of us including him debated about ratings within the parameters of the AEW/NXT audience which is combined about 1.5 - 2 million on cable. Now that AEW is climbing back up in their cable numbers, its "pathetic" to consider 845K a good number. And this is a guy who has admitted that he knows cable doesn't represent the entire audience. Is climbing over a million again pathetic now too? Fuck out of here. The guy is a blind hater. Now I know not to ever take him seriously again.
> 
> "_Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler._" Lol what a WWE shill. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen the guy hasn't had a single positive thing to say about Dynamite last night. Even the most critical guys on this board have said positive things to say. And we are the ones who hate wrestling? How miserable.
> 
> 
> 
> This is awesome. Baby steps turning into leaps as the weeks go on.
> 
> 
> 
> Another Wood classic.


Yep. Not a single positive thing.


----------



## InexorableJourney

With AEW getting ever more popular, Italian TV is starting to look like they got themselves a real bargain.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Well, this is an ironic post, considering last week had two wrestlers being essentially “slimed.” This is all a parody of wrestling. I’m an advocate for the term “zombie wrestling.” And it’s got an audience of 1.5 million people on a good week. Less popular than the Attitude era hangovers for Raw and SmackDown, but celebrated because it does better than a test pattern on cable.


Nickelodeon, Disney Channel, Saturday Night Live...I couldn't think of the best analogy but yeah AEW also fits into the same group. But it's a road that WWE went down over 20 years ago. Even in the critically acclaimed year 2000 they had Mae Young giving birth to a hand and 24/7 rule and a whole host of cartoonish stuff. And they never moved away from that direction. Whether it was Tim White's suicide attempts or Hornswoggle. They got lazier, greedier and in the late 2010's gradually went completely bonkers, top to bottom. Now it's reached cinematic matches/skits and absolute garbage like the Eye for an Eye concept.

AEW, for all its faults, IMO resembles a mixture of WWE and TNA of 2001-2008. Of course there's the misguided 'meta' stuff like Stadium Stampede and Young Bucks. However, for the most part it's like watching an episode of Raw or Impact from that time period. So cashing in on the sports TV rights boom and chipping away at any of the 5 million viewers from back then may be Khan's working plan. Vince is doing his best to chase away viewers too. I'm not saying it's working - they've not been able to increase from that 1.4 million debut episode. Yet, the situation is skewed somewhat by having head-to-head competition and fewer people watching live cable television. For example, 10 years a TNT original drama season premiere would pull 3.5 million viewers. Now it's barely 2 million. Likewise, the last time wrestling was able to increase average viewership was during the 2004-2006 Ruthless Aggression 3 (Cena, Orton, Batista) marketing campaign.


----------



## Y2K23

DOTL said:


> Ah. Remember the days when AEW was dying just because NXT beat it in overall viewership for a few weeks?


Wasn't AEW supposed to be out of business by this time????


----------



## JBLGOAT

with the way AEW stars keep getting injured NXT will beat them in no time.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Logic is maintained. When you do good shit, good shit is gonna happen. All the times there was harsh critics, guess what, the shows was not how it could be. 

Respect the TV audience and they will come. What happened last week? Moxley vs Cage World title match. 

What happened this week? A lot of good shit. Page getting a match, getting attacked. Return of Sami. A good women match. You got Cage, Allin, Mox. A no hold bared count anywhere match with the Bucks. This show was fucking moving.


----------



## Marbar

I couldn't watch Dynamite live last night due to being out of town on a family vacation so I'm watching it now. This weeks episode was the best show I've seen in a very long time. My takeaways from the show

1) Cody and Kingston was awesome. Strong contender for match of the year in my opinion please sign him AEW. Put kingston wuth Santana and Ortiz since the Inner Circle has been forever tarnished by the OC debacle. They will never be a legitimate heel stable after the "comedy" angle with the Best Friends and OC.

2) MJFs beatdown of Griff was awesome. Making him say MJF was undefeated took the art of being an asshole to a whole new level.

3) Rebel is hot af and hooking her up as Britt's lackey is entertaing as hell. Can't wait until Britt returns to action.

4) Cage and Starks look great together please AEW don't ruin them with a bullshit angle like you did with IC.

5) The young bucks do absolutely nothing for me. 

6) Lance Archer beating up 4 jobbers. Nice.

7) Ivelisse. What more needs to be said. Sign her NOW. Wish she would have won. Since Pac can't come over from England. Reform the Death Triangle and put her in his place. Give her the womens belt and lucha the tag team belts. Maybe rename them until Pac gets back

8) love Hangman but the Dark Order is a cancer like the Nightmare Collective. 5 on 1 and they stand there like morons while 5 gets a beatdown. Immediate danger LMAO. STFU Brodie. Please put it out of it's misery and redeem Brody Lee. FTR to the rescue with a cooler full of beer and they scatter like cock roaches. Hope when get Uno and Grayson get spanked next week its a nail in the DO coffin.

9) IC and JE. Didn't pay much attention to it because I've lost all interest in them. Maybe that will change now that Sammy is back. Santana and Sammy are the only ones with any upside IMO.

Very good show overall. Glad they had a nice bump in ratings. AEW did a very good job this week and I hope they continue to build on the storylines.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

llj said:


> Every WWE show is struggling and not stopping the bleeding, can't wait for the WWE diehards to blame no crowds again though


This is what I don't like. We're meant to count all these other factors for AEW but don't do the same for WWE. You cannot have it both ways.

Maybe the WWE fans are watching via other methods, maybe they're illegally streaming, does WWE Network air the replays? Maybe that's where they're going. Also, if we count the international viewership for the WWE obviously WWE is shitting all over AEW.

Enjoy the ratings win but lets not pretend WWE is struggling.



NXT Only said:


> Yeah I said that. They had someone involved that kept you locked in each time. Cody to MJF to Moxley to Cage to Bucks to Hangman to Archer to Jericho. Just gotta find some consistency with the women.


They'll get there. Get a group of 10-15 super talented women who are attractive and bad ass and they'll be off to the races.



rbl85 said:


> Now if they have to find a way to get the women to watch the show (it's going to be hard) then we're in for something special


Adam Page, I know I'm coming off a bit **** for the guy but I know a heap of women (And gay men probably would be also) who would be in love with a dude like that if he was in a chick flick or whatever. He's also cool enough to be a draw for the straight men.




Freezer Geezer said:


> Another Wood classic from two weeks ago.


Joined: 9 days ago. Has gone back through pages and pages of ratings talk and already hates "da haterz"

More evidence that you are a rejoiner or an alt account.

I still stand by that NXT would consistently beat the shit that AEW was dropping us 2 weeks ago (Which I called the worst AEW show ever). If AEW can maintain momentum and keep putting on banger show after banger show then they probably will consistently beat NXT (Which is what they should be doing given the star power)

I guess the AEW fans that just want positive talk about AEW don't really want that after all. The amount of people I've seen trying (And failing) to start fights with "Da HaTeRz!11!1!!" since yesterday is absolutely huge. I will never buy into the whole "We don't want the haters here" argument ever again. Ya'll love it except for the more mature folks (CattleClass, NXT_Only and surprisingly DollaDrew)


----------



## Cult03

taker1986 said:


> It's on TV simply just to slow down AEW's growth. That's all.


We've been over this. It was on Wednesday night's before Dynamite was even a thing. Why would they change the night they were already on?


----------



## Dizzie

NXT Only said:


> What else did you guys expect from The Wood?


Dude be really exposing himself as a pretend aew "fan" and is obviously very much pro wwe, his response to this weeks ratings reeks of real bitterness.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> They'll get there. Get a group of 10-15 super talented women who are attractive and bad ass and they'll be off to the races.


They yet to do this bruh. I aint holdin my breath, Ivelisse's ass was right too 😂


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> The guy harped on and on about AEW never catching up to RAW's "superior" numbers and now that it's looking more and more like it'll happen sooner rather than later, (mostly because of WWE's incompetence), now catching up or beating RAW which is getting 1.5 - 1.7 every week is "unimpressive". AEW, a company that is only 14 months old beating RAW is unimpressive now? And he says that WE are moving the goalposts. That is the biggest moving of a goalpost I have ever seen.
> 
> Last week's number was impressive but this week's isn't? Lol. Clearly he's mad AEW exists. Since the beginning of these "Wednesday night wars", every one of us including him debated about ratings within the parameters of the AEW/NXT audience which is combined about 1.5 - 2 million on cable. Now that AEW is climbing back up in their cable numbers, its "pathetic" to consider 845K a good number. And this is a guy who has admitted that he knows cable doesn't represent the entire audience. Is climbing over a million again pathetic now too? Fuck out of here. The guy is a blind hater. Now I know not to ever take him seriously again.
> 
> "_Raw did a 0.41 this week or something, by the way. Still way cooler._" Lol what a WWE shill. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen the guy hasn't had a single positive thing to say about Dynamite last night. Even the most critical guys on this board have said positive things to say. And we are the ones who hate wrestling? How miserable.
> 
> 
> 
> This is awesome. Baby steps turning into leaps as the weeks go on.
> 
> 
> 
> Another Wood classic.


Hang on, where have I ever used the word “superior” to described Raw’s ratings. I mean, they evidently are, but if you’re going to quote someone, quote correctly, and don’t misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth. This is made all the more egregious by quoting something someone else made up about me and attributing it to me. I guess you’ve got to do that to deal with the points I raise though.

There are about 1.5 million people who watch every week. They’re not growing an audience. I don’t know where this idea that they are just burgeoning with popularity is coming from. Isn’t this just the flip of the ratings from a few weeks ago?

Raw might be losing people too, but if they beat Raw because it drops to 600k, then that’s not exactly something to celebrate. Nor is it likely they won’t drop as well. You have people here jumping around posting memes alluding to some sort of dominance for a product that gets smoked by Raw and SmackDown each week. That’s got nothing to do with fandom. That’s just a fact.

I’ve NEVER been impressed with AEW’s numbers. Ever. Nor do I owe it to them to be. So don’t make up that I have been just to shoot it down. More dishonesty. And where did I ever say last week’s numbers were impressive? I’m fairly certain my line from the start is that wrestling should be doing a lot better on cable. And no, I don’t subscribe to your irrelevant tangential point about there being shadow audiences for this stuff either. I discuss the live cable viewership in the thread about live cable viewership, and have explained consistently why.

_I didn’t watch Dynamite this week._ Like most wrestling fans. And if you go through my posts with a comb, instead of just making them up, you’ll find I’ve said nothing positive OR negative, _not that I owe it to them to be positive._

But sure, more made up stuff. This is what you’ve got to do, I guess. Make up things I didn’t say, compare me to others or call me a shill. *Not being impressed by AEW does not make you a shill.* Tell me: where’s the lie? What have I said that is not factually accurate or deliberately dishonest. I can point to things you’re saying. Where are my lies?

The preoccupation so many people on this board have with distorting reality to try and discredit me, or whatever, speaks volumes. If I were talking shit, it wouldn’t bother you all so much. But I tend to make liars out of most of you for some reason. 

By the way, gotta love how Meltzer just calls any demo he wants a “key demo” now.



Dizzie said:


> Dude be really exposing himself as a pretend aew "fan" and is obviously very much pro wwe, his response to this weeks ratings reeks of real bitterness.


I’m not a fan of AEW. I love talking about them and want there to be other wrestling than shitty WWE, but I’ve largely given up on them being able to deliver a viable alternative. And I don’t consider myself a fan of most of their stuff. I like MJF’s promos and there are a few talented guys there, but more and more they are close to jumping that shark. I want wrestling to be better, but I don’t think I’ve ever professed myself to be a fan of AEW. I’m a fan of wrestling.

I’m not pro-WWE at all. Pointing out that Raw smokes them on basic cable is not being pro them.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Hang on, where have I ever used the word “superior” to described Raw’s ratings. I mean, they evidently are, but if you’re going to quote someone, quote correctly, and don’t misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth. This is made all the more egregious by quoting something someone else made up about me and attributing it to me. I guess you’ve got to do that to deal with the points I raise though.
> 
> There are about 1.5 million people who watch every week. They’re not growing an audience. I don’t know where this idea that they are just burgeoning with popularity is coming from. Isn’t this just the flip of the ratings from a few weeks ago?
> 
> Raw might be losing people too, but if they beat Raw because it drops to 600k, then that’s not exactly something to celebrate. Nor is it likely they won’t drop as well. You have people here jumping around posting memes alluding to some sort of dominance for a product that gets smoked by Raw and SmackDown each week. That’s got nothing to do with fandom. That’s just a fact.
> 
> I’ve NEVER been impressed with AEW’s numbers. Ever. Nor do I owe it to them to be. So don’t make up that I have been just to shoot it down. More dishonesty. And where did I ever say last week’s numbers were impressive? I’m fairly certain my line from the start is that wrestling should be doing a lot better on cable. And no, I don’t subscribe to your irrelevant tangential point about there being shadow audiences for this stuff either. I discuss the live cable viewership in the thread about live cable viewership, and have explained consistently why.
> 
> _I didn’t watch Dynamite this week._ Like most wrestling fans. And if you go through my posts with a comb, instead of just making them up, you’ll find I’ve said nothing positive OR negative, _not that I owe it to them to be positive._
> 
> But sure, more made up stuff. This is what you’ve got to do, I guess. Make up things I didn’t say, compare me to others or call me a shill. *Not being impressed by AEW does not make you a shill.* Tell me: where’s the lie? What have I said that is not factually accurate or deliberately dishonest. I can point to things you’re saying. Where are my lies?
> 
> The preoccupation so many people on this board have with distorting reality to try and discredit me, or whatever, speaks volumes. If I were talking shit, it wouldn’t bother you all so much. But I tend to make liars out of most of you for some reason.
> 
> By the way, gotta love how Meltzer just calls any demo he wants a “key demo” now.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not a fan of AEW. I love talking about them and want there to be other wrestling than shitty WWE, but I’ve largely given up on them being able to deliver a viable alternative. And I don’t consider myself a fan of most of their stuff. I like MJF’s promos and there are a few talented guys there, but more and more they are close to jumping that shark. I want wrestling to be better, but I don’t think I’ve ever professed myself to be a fan of AEW. I’m a fan of wrestling.
> 
> I’m not pro-WWE at all. Pointing out that Raw smokes them on basic cable is not being pro them.


Raw is losing it's audience fast - aew already beating it in some demos. This is shaping as another wrong bet for you.


----------



## Pippen94

Dizzie said:


> Dude be really exposing himself as a pretend aew "fan" and is obviously very much pro wwe, his response to this weeks ratings reeks of real bitterness.


Aew keeps proving him wrong so he needed new angle


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> Hang on, where have I ever used the word “superior” to described Raw’s ratings. I mean, they evidently are, but if you’re going to quote someone, quote correctly, and don’t misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth. This is made all the more egregious by quoting something someone else made up about me and attributing it to me. I guess you’ve got to do that to deal with the points I raise though.
> 
> There are about 1.5 million people who watch every week. They’re not growing an audience. I don’t know where this idea that they are just burgeoning with popularity is coming from. Isn’t this just the flip of the ratings from a few weeks ago?
> 
> Raw might be losing people too, but if they beat Raw because it drops to 600k, then that’s not exactly something to celebrate. Nor is it likely they won’t drop as well. You have people here jumping around posting memes alluding to some sort of dominance for a product that gets smoked by Raw and SmackDown each week. That’s got nothing to do with fandom. That’s just a fact.
> 
> I’ve NEVER been impressed with AEW’s numbers. Ever. Nor do I owe it to them to be. So don’t make up that I have been just to shoot it down. More dishonesty. And where did I ever say last week’s numbers were impressive? I’m fairly certain my line from the start is that wrestling should be doing a lot better on cable. And no, I don’t subscribe to your irrelevant tangential point about there being shadow audiences for this stuff either. I discuss the live cable viewership in the thread about live cable viewership, and have explained consistently why.
> 
> _I didn’t watch Dynamite this week._ Like most wrestling fans. And if you go through my posts with a comb, instead of just making them up, you’ll find I’ve said nothing positive OR negative, _not that I owe it to them to be positive._
> 
> But sure, more made up stuff. This is what you’ve got to do, I guess. Make up things I didn’t say, compare me to others or call me a shill. *Not being impressed by AEW does not make you a shill.* Tell me: where’s the lie? What have I said that is not factually accurate or deliberately dishonest. I can point to things you’re saying. Where are my lies?
> 
> The preoccupation so many people on this board have with distorting reality to try and discredit me, or whatever, speaks volumes. If I were talking shit, it wouldn’t bother you all so much. But I tend to make liars out of most of you for some reason.
> 
> By the way, gotta love how Meltzer just calls any demo he wants a “key demo” now.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not a fan of AEW. I love talking about them and want there to be other wrestling than shitty WWE, but I’ve largely given up on them being able to deliver a viable alternative. And I don’t consider myself a fan of most of their stuff. I like MJF’s promos and there are a few talented guys there, but more and more they are close to jumping that shark. I want wrestling to be better, but I don’t think I’ve ever professed myself to be a fan of AEW. I’m a fan of wrestling.
> 
> I’m not pro-WWE at all. Pointing out that Raw smokes them on basic cable is not being pro them.


You dont like aew but you spend a lot of time making essay long post in the promotion's section of this forum....... 

that kinda sounds messed up, can you not think of any hobby that you can take up that will actually give you some enjoyment? I've never understood why wrestling fans allow themselves to follow a wrestling product whether that be TNA, wwe/nxt or aew for months, even years! That produces such misery for them when it is so damn easy to find something else entertaining to get into????


----------



## Freezer Geezer

> Joined: 9 days ago. Has gone back through pages and pages of ratings talk and already hates "da haterz"
> 
> More evidence that you are a rejoiner or an alt account.
> 
> I still stand by that NXT would consistently beat the shit that AEW was dropping us 2 weeks ago (Which I called the worst AEW show ever). If AEW can maintain momentum and keep putting on banger show after banger show then they probably will consistently beat NXT (Which is what they should be doing given the star power)
> 
> I guess the AEW fans that just want positive talk about AEW don't really want that after all. The amount of people I've seen trying (And failing) to start fights with "Da HaTeRz!11!1!!" since yesterday is absolutely huge. I will never buy into the whole "We don't want the haters here" argument ever again. Ya'll love it except for the more mature folks (CattleClass, NXT_Only and surprisingly DollaDrew)


I don't hate 'the haters' at all. I just like people to be objective and fair, which as the posts I quoted demonstrate the Wood is not. Be fair with criticism. Don't come on a thread about ratings trolling about one side being better than the other and then be surprised when people point out you were wrong on things and shouldn't be taken seriously due to said opinions.


----------



## taker1986

Nail on the head. Meltzer dropping truth Bombs. This has been obvious to me from the very start, NXT only exists on that channel to stop the growth of AEW instead of grow itself. They've been on the WWE network since 2014 with a 1 hour show but as soon as AEW are Wednesday night they conveniently move to TV on a two hour show. I doubt HHH is very happy that Vince is using NXT as a sacrificial lamb and I doubt many of the talent are happy working there either.


----------



## NXT Only

Wolf Mark said:


> Logic is maintained. When you do good shit, good shit is gonna happen. All the times there was harsh critics, guess what, the shows was not how it could be.
> 
> Respect the TV audience and they will come. What happened last week? Moxley vs Cage World title match.
> 
> What happened this week? A lot of good shit. Page getting a match, getting attacked. Return of Sami. A good women match. You got Cage, Allin, Mox. A no hold bared count anywhere match with the Bucks. This show was fucking moving.


This was built off weeks of equity invested in the fans. FFTF was so good it made fans tune back in the next week for the fall out. That's how it works. Now next week should be higher because this week was high energy. It was only a matter of time before they began their build towards All Out. I think between DoN and All-Out they need another major PPV type show or they need to a G1 Climax type tournament during that time.


----------



## TheDraw

They need to ride this momentum and have solid booking along with a few big surprises for the next few months for it to mean anything. Hopefully they're starting to get their shit together again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Woodsy is very much like NXT

he is here to let you know ‘you’ve made the wrong choice’ / ‘they are doing stuff wrong’ and ‘watch something else’

his only goal here is to hamper and not to ’help’ - just like NXT on a Wed

hell, i’d watch that show if it wasn’t on a Wed, it is still WWEs best offering - but sometimes you gotta look past the BS and see the real goal of something - to undermine what you like


----------



## Freezer Geezer

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Woodsy is very much like NXT
> 
> he is here to let you know ‘you’ve made the wrong choice’ / ‘they are doing stuff wrong’ and ‘watch something else’
> 
> his only goal here is to hamper and not to ’help’ - just like NXT on a Wed
> 
> hell, i’d watch that show if it wasn’t on a Wed, it is still WWEs best offering - but sometimes you gotta look past the BS and see the real goal of something - to undermine what you like


Indeed. And people immediately tried jumping on me for simply quoting some of the ridiculous posts he's made in the last couple of weeks, just to show he's not actually trying to debate with anyone. He's trying to tell people he's right and everybody else is wrong. As was seen, his opinion passed across as fact was actually wrong. 😂Plus he was posting about NXT 'destroying' AEW in the ratings, yet now he chooses to shift his argument accordingly when NXT happens to fall behind in the ratings. That is nothing but trolling.

We all like genuine debate and fair and constructive criticism. Posting "I told you so!!! I knew AEW was going to start losing to NXT because AEW is crap in comparison" is arrogance personified and done for no purpose other than self aggrandisement and trolling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Freezer Geezer said:


> Indeed. And people immediately tried jumping on me for simply quoting some of the ridiculous posts he's made in the last couple of weeks, just to show he's not actually trying to debate with anyone. He's trying to tell people he's right and everybody else is wrong. As was seen, his opinion passed across as fact was actually wrong. 😂Plus he was posting about NXT 'destroying' AEW in the ratings, yet now he chooses to shift his argument accordingly when NXT happens to fall behind in the ratings. That is nothing but trolling.
> 
> We all like genuine debate and fair and constructive criticism. Posting "I told you so!!! I knew AEW was going to start losing to NXT because AEW is crap in comparison" is arrogance personified and done for no purpose other than self aggrandisement and trolling.


the only wish i have is that Woods is the worst - but its not even close

there is some guy on twitter right now telling me Fox is gonna move Smackdown to Wednesdays (fine, possible) - but then Vince will proceed to BUY all his own ad slots in order to DESTROY AEW

just in case somebody channel surfs and sees AEW  

then all of AEWs stars will leave and they will be DESTROYED!!

when prompted, he said these are the ‘facts’

EL-OH-EL


----------



## Freezer Geezer

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the only wish i have is that Woods is the worst - but its not even close
> 
> there is some guy on twitter right now telling me Fox is gonna move Smackdown to Wednesdays (fine, possible) - but then Vince will proceed to BUY all his own ad slots in order to DESTROY AEW
> 
> just in case somebody channel surfs and sees AEW
> 
> then all of AEWs stars will leave and they will be DESTROYED!!
> 
> when prompted, he said these are the ‘facts’
> 
> EL-OH-EL


It's all just rather embarassing.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit about who wins the ratings. The ratings don't bother me at all, nor do they impact upon my enjoyment of the product. My only vested interest is wanting the wrestling industry as a whole to be healthy and able to provide wrestlers with secure incomes, opportunity and wrestling for us all to enjoy. Which seemingly is currently happening as TNT appear to be happy with AEW, and WWE are doing as well as they ever have.

I find it amusing how certain individuals seem to love to try and use ratings as a stick with which to bash fans of either show though. They hide when their preferred show is losing, yet crow when their show is 'on top' of the ratings. We literally do not understand how these things work well enough to debate what they mean. Even if we did, why does anybody care? We are fans of the show. Leave the ratings and marketing stuff to the number crunchers who need to worry about it.

That's the only reason I've even quoted Wood. He is the biggest example I can see and it's just boring to see to be honest and some times it needs to be pointed out. I would do the same with any AEW fans doing the same in reverse. Just enjoy the fecking shows! Or don't. 😂 People take this shit way too seriously.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Freezer Geezer said:


> It's all just rather embarassing.
> 
> Personally, I couldn't give a shit about who wins the ratings. The ratings don't bother me at all, nor do they impact upon my enjoyment of the product. My only vested interest is wanting the wrestling industry as a whole to be healthy and able to provide wrestlers with secure incomes, opportunity and wrestling for us all to enjoy. Which seemingly is currently happening as TNT appear to be happy with AEW, and WWE are doing as well as they ever have.
> 
> I find it amusing how certain individuals seem to love to try and use ratings as a stick with which to bash fans of either show though. They hide when their preferred show is losing, yet crow when their show is 'on top' of the ratings. We literally do not understand how these things work well enough to debate what they mean. Even if we did, why does anybody care? We are fans of the show. Leave the ratings and marketing stuff to the number crunchers who need to worry about it.
> 
> That's the only reason I've even quoted Wood. He is the biggest example I can see and it's just boring to see to be honest and some times it needs to be pointed out. Just enjoy the fecking shows! Or don't. 😂 People take this shit way too seriously.


agreed - the ratings are fun to chat about - but they’ll never influence what i like

ever

that would be weak-minded


----------



## The Wood

Freezer Geezer said:


> I don't hate 'the haters' at all. I just like people to be objective and fair, which as the posts I quoted demonstrate the Wood is not. Be fair with criticism. Don't come on a thread about ratings trolling about one side being better than the other and then be surprised when people point out you were wrong on things and shouldn't be taken seriously due to said opinions.


I think I’m pretty objective. Which posts did you quote again? Honest question, I’m not about to go back through and skimmed through your posts. I’ve got the sneaking suspicion it’s more made-up stuff though.

What have I been wrong about? I’ll concede one thing (something no one has even brought up): I did expect NXT to be handedly beating AEW in overall viewership consistently and indisputably by this point. That guess was way back in pre-pandemic times, but that hasn’t happened. I can’t think of another thing that I’ve said that is “wrong” though.



taker1986 said:


> Nail on the head. Meltzer dropping truth Bombs. This has been obvious to me from the very start, NXT only exists on that channel to stop the growth of AEW instead of grow itself. They've been on the WWE network since 2014 with a 1 hour show but as soon as AEW are Wednesday night they conveniently move to TV on a two hour show. I doubt HHH is very happy that Vince is using NXT as a sacrificial lamb and I doubt many of the talent are happy working there either.
> View attachment 89118


This is pure subjective perspective on Meltzer’s part, with his bias clearly showing.

It was never about NXT’s success? Well, I’m sure eight figures is preferred as opposed to running developmental at a deficit. And has it succeeded in stopping AEW? It certainly has if you consider the goal of AEW to get ratings that are going to secure it giant TV rights. $45 million per year is chump change, and their slice of viewership is so small that they aren’t a threat to Vince’s monopoly. If the goal is retaining power, NXT has done its job splendidly. But that isn’t an “AEW positive story. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Woodsy is very much like NXT
> 
> he is here to let you know ‘you’ve made the wrong choice’ / ‘they are doing stuff wrong’ and ‘watch something else’
> 
> his only goal here is to hamper and not to ’help’ - just like NXT on a Wed
> 
> hell, i’d watch that show if it wasn’t on a Wed, it is still WWEs best offering - but sometimes you gotta look past the BS and see the real goal of something - to undermine what you like


I’ve given plenty of constructive ideas, they’re just conveniently ignored because you don’t like the “truth bombs” as they were called earlier. 



Freezer Geezer said:


> Indeed. And people immediately tried jumping on me for simply quoting some of the ridiculous posts he's made in the last couple of weeks, just to show he's not actually trying to debate with anyone. He's trying to tell people he's right and everybody else is wrong. As was seen, his opinion passed across as fact were actually wrong. 😂Plus he was posting about NXT 'destroying' AEW in the ratings, yet now he chooses to shift his argument accordingly. That is nothing but trolling.
> 
> We all like genuine debate and fair and constructive criticism. Posting "I told you so!!! I knew AEW was going to start losing to NXT because their show is crap in comparison" is arrogance personified and done for no purpose other than self aggrandisement and trolling.


More made up stuff. I’d say this is closer to a troll. Where have I passed anything across as facts _except actual facts?_ Of course I believe my opinion is correct — it’s my opinion — and I try to base my opinion on evidence and reason. If you care to dispute a point — dispute an actual point. What do you take grievance with?

Best I can tell from your post here is that I “always knew” NXT would start beating AEW because it is the better show. Yes, I did. And it happened. Not every week, but the WWF didn’t immediately start beating WCW in 1998 either. As I said somewhere (prior to FyterFest night 2), with this mobilised audience, they’re likely going to fight a natural swing and push AEW forward as much as they can. We’re also dealing with smaller numbers so the data is going to be far more in flux too. No one reasonably disputes that point. A turnaround of 100k people isn’t really statistically that significant the way ratings are tallied. So I’m not completely shocked by the numbers just flipping from where they were a month ago. It doesn’t change my opinion that NXT is eventually going to turn things around more permanently, either just by being more consistent or because they have access to the biggest stars in the industry to basically cycle through on an infinite loop. It’s really not a shocking prediction. I don’t think I ever predicted it would happen overnight and that AEW would immediately disappear after three weeks of getting beaten.

And I don’t know if I ever used the word “destroyed.” I may have used it tongue-in-cheek, because that is the verbiage used by AEW super fans when it came to AEW beating NXT by an estimated few thousand people, which is completely ignorant to how Nielsen ratings work. Are you referencing that? Because I’ve been very consistently with posters like Cult03 who question the validity of the rating system in 2020, and I strongly believe they are misinterpreted and misused by people.

I think too many people think the numbers are the story instead of learning how to read a story from the numbers. That’s why you get dickheads like Vince Russo and people who think a good rating = good television, or that the ratings are a gauge for how over something is. Not enough people, either in the business or studying it for fun, have a great compass developed.

But nah, I’m just a troll taking the time to explain myself very clearly to you.


----------



## The Wood

EDIT: Double post. Just assume this says something negative about AEW that is just totally, like, my opinion, man. But pretend it is passed off as fact and get really upset about that, please.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Wood said:


> I think I’m pretty objective. Which posts did you quote again? Honest question, I’m not about to go back through and skimmed through your posts. I’ve got the sneaking suspicion it’s more made-up stuff though.
> 
> What have I been wrong about? I’ll concede one thing (something no one has even brought up): I did expect NXT to be handedly beating AEW in overall viewership consistently and indisputably by this point. That guess was way back in pre-pandemic times, but that hasn’t happened. I can’t think of another thing that I’ve said that is “wrong” though.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure subjective perspective on Meltzer’s part, with his bias clearly showing.
> 
> It was never about NXT’s success? Well, I’m sure eight figures is preferred as opposed to running developmental at a deficit. And has it succeeded in stopping AEW? It certainly has if you consider the goal of AEW to get ratings that are going to secure it giant TV rights. $45 million per year is chump change, and their slice of viewership is so small that they aren’t a threat to Vince’s monopoly. If the goal is retaining power, NXT has done its job splendidly. But that isn’t an “AEW positive story.
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve given plenty of constructive ideas, they’re just conveniently ignored because you don’t like the “truth bombs” as they were called earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> More made up stuff. I’d say this is closer to a troll. Where have I passed anything across as facts _except actual facts?_ Of course I believe my opinion is correct — it’s my opinion — and I try to base my opinion on evidence and reason. If you care to dispute a point — dispute an actual point. What do you take grievance with?
> 
> Best I can tell from your post here is that I “always knew” NXT would start beating AEW because it is the better show. Yes, I did. And it happened. Not every week, but the WWF didn’t immediately start beating WCW in 1998 either. As I said somewhere (prior to FyterFest night 2), with this mobilised audience, they’re likely going to fight a natural swing and push AEW forward as much as they can. We’re also dealing with smaller numbers so the data is going to be far more in flux too. No one reasonably disputes that point. A turnaround of 100k people isn’t really statistically that significant the way ratings are tallied. So I’m not completely shocked by the numbers just flipping from where they were a month ago. It doesn’t change my opinion that NXT is eventually going to turn things around more permanently, either just by being more consistent or because they have access to the biggest stars in the industry to basically cycle through on an infinite loop. It’s really not a shocking prediction. I don’t think I ever predicted it would happen overnight and that AEW would immediately disappear after three weeks of getting beaten.
> 
> And I don’t know if I ever used the word “destroyed.” I may have used it tongue-in-cheek, because that is the verbiage used by AEW super fans when it came to AEW beating NXT by an estimated few thousand people, which is completely ignorant to how Nielsen ratings work. Are you referencing that? Because I’ve been very consistently with posters like Cult03 who question the validity of the rating system in 2020, and I strongly believe they are misinterpreted and misused by people.
> 
> I think too many people think the numbers are the story instead of learning how to read a story from the numbers. That’s why you get dickheads like Vince Russo and people who think a good rating = good television, or that the ratings are a gauge for how over something is. Not enough people, either in the business or studying it for fun, have a great compass developed.
> 
> But nah, I’m just a troll taking the time to explain myself very clearly to you.


Of course you are a troll. No one takes you seriously anymore.


----------



## The Wood

ProjectGargano said:


> Of course you are a troll. No one takes you seriously anymore.


Great substance to this post. Glad to see that the trolling technique of just calling someone a troll to dismiss them isn’t completely dead.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

there it is.... first time beating some of RAW

green cells

this is not a small thing


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there it is.... first time beating some of RAW
> 
> green cells
> 
> this is not a small thing
> 
> View attachment 89120


I wonder how many of these cells would've been green without NXT as competition.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker1986 said:


> I wonder how many of these cells would've been green without NXT as competition.


couple more, for sure

not the big ones though - RAW still ahead overall, even if no competition


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Hang on, where have I ever used the word “superior” to described Raw’s ratings. I mean, they evidently are, but if you’re going to quote someone, quote correctly, and don’t misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth. This is made all the more egregious by quoting something someone else made up about me and attributing it to me. I guess you’ve got to do that to deal with the points I raise though.
> 
> There are about 1.5 million people who watch every week. They’re not growing an audience. I don’t know where this idea that they are just burgeoning with popularity is coming from. Isn’t this just the flip of the ratings from a few weeks ago?
> 
> Raw might be losing people too, but if they beat Raw because it drops to 600k, then that’s not exactly something to celebrate. Nor is it likely they won’t drop as well. You have people here jumping around posting memes alluding to some sort of dominance for a product that gets smoked by Raw and SmackDown each week. That’s got nothing to do with fandom. That’s just a fact.
> 
> I’ve NEVER been impressed with AEW’s numbers. Ever. Nor do I owe it to them to be. So don’t make up that I have been just to shoot it down. More dishonesty. And where did I ever say last week’s numbers were impressive? I’m fairly certain my line from the start is that wrestling should be doing a lot better on cable. And no, I don’t subscribe to your irrelevant tangential point about there being shadow audiences for this stuff either. I discuss the live cable viewership in the thread about live cable viewership, and have explained consistently why.
> 
> _I didn’t watch Dynamite this week._ Like most wrestling fans. And if you go through my posts with a comb, instead of just making them up, you’ll find I’ve said nothing positive OR negative, _not that I owe it to them to be positive._
> 
> But sure, more made up stuff. This is what you’ve got to do, I guess. Make up things I didn’t say, compare me to others or call me a shill. *Not being impressed by AEW does not make you a shill.* Tell me: where’s the lie? What have I said that is not factually accurate or deliberately dishonest. I can point to things you’re saying. Where are my lies?
> 
> The preoccupation so many people on this board have with distorting reality to try and discredit me, or whatever, speaks volumes. If I were talking shit, it wouldn’t bother you all so much. But I tend to make liars out of most of you for some reason.
> 
> By the way, gotta love how Meltzer just calls any demo he wants a “key demo” now.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not a fan of AEW. I love talking about them and want there to be other wrestling than shitty WWE, but I’ve largely given up on them being able to deliver a viable alternative. And I don’t consider myself a fan of most of their stuff. I like MJF’s promos and there are a few talented guys there, but more and more they are close to jumping that shark. I want wrestling to be better, but I don’t think I’ve ever professed myself to be a fan of AEW. I’m a fan of wrestling.
> 
> I’m not pro-WWE at all. Pointing out that Raw smokes them on basic cable is not being pro them.


-This entire post is bullshit my guy. From what I see, you're looking for another 3-4 page debate. I can go back and quote you like everyone else has been doing, but I honestly don't care to. You're now saying you're not a fan of AEW, but most of the posts in this section (a very active section by the way) come from you. The AEW home page clearly says that you have the most posts. Its been that way for a while now. So you're telling me you hate the product but you decide to spend hours on here shitting on it and coming up with every angle in the book to discredit them. Good to know. Why would you even do that? What do you gain?

-Of course you didn't watch Dynamite this week. Why would you watch the best show they have put on? That would be too much for little old Wood. You don't owe them any positive talk but you owe them 10 pages of shit talk per week. Good to know that as well.

-You're not pro-WWE? Okay Wood. RAW will never drop to 600K. Triple H would legit suplex Vince McMahon IRL if things were to ever get that bad. The crux of the argument here that you're once again changing is that AEW is looking better and better as the weeks go by and that 1.5 - 1.6 doesn't look as safe as it once did. No one is saying that this means WWE is dying. It only means that AEW is gaining more of a foothold in U.S. wrestling in comparison as far as the CABLE AUDIENCE to the bigger machine. There's nothing wrong in a fan acknowledging that when we all know that people are streaming like a mofo anyway. What is wrong is someone who is NOT a fan of AEW investing hours into trying to force his opinions about the product and his ridiculous viewpoints that AEW is dying down the throats of other fans. This is why people call you a troll. Because you try to make fans feel stupid for enjoying AEW and stupid for being happy for their success. That's fuckin bullshit my guy. No one else here does that. I have come down on the others on here for doing this only to later realize that I was lumping them together with you and a few other meme accounts floating around here.

- I didn't say you had to be impressed by AEW to not be a shill. I am saying that you don't have to discredit them at every turn and be two-faced in all of your arguments. When NXT was winning, in your head you were on top of the world, now that AEW is blowing them out of the water, it doesn't matter. At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way, but clearly you want the company to fail. This is a far cry from your counterparts on here who shit on the product but actually want them to improve. Those people I don't have a problem with.

-Before, you said that you were a fan and that you shit on them because you want them to get better. I was willing to buy into that narrative for a while. Now that I see you for who you really are, I think its time I removed that bullshit from my profile. I am all for negative criticism, but not blind hate. I don't usually block or ignore people on here, but once we are done with our back and forth, you will have to go on my block list. You're getting a little too overbearing and asinine. I don't really care to see posts from someone who says he is not a fan. I suggest you do the same with me.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there it is.... first time beating some of RAW
> 
> green cells
> 
> this is not a small thing
> 
> View attachment 89120


18-49 is shockingly close, and that's for a PPV fallout show with an unsanctioned match they've built for a month. AEW had an awesome show, but nothing major was promoted.

AEW will 100% beat RAW in the demo within the next year unless something major happens and things change. And when crowds come back, AEW benefits the most, who gives a shit about the dead silent RAW crowds? AEW crowds were a huge part of their aesthetic.

Couple that with PAC coming back, signings like Rusev, AEW has potential to do some great numbers in the next year.

You also have blood and guts in your back pocket when we get some normalcy.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

prosperwithdeen said:


> -This entire post is bullshit. You're now saying you're not a fan of AEW, but most of the posts in this section (a very active section by the way) come from you. The AEW home page clearly says that you have the most posts. Its been that way for a while now. So you're telling me you hate the product but you decide to spend hours on here shitting on it and coming up with every angle in the book to discredit them. Good to know. Why would you even do that? What do you gain?
> 
> -Of course you didn't watch Dynamite this week. Why would you watch the best show they have put on? That would be too much for little old Wood. You don't owe them any positive talk but you owe them 10 pages of shit talk per week. Good to know that as well.
> 
> -You're not pro-WWE? Okay Wood. RAW will never drop to 600K. Triple H would legit suplex Vince McMahon IRL if things were to ever get that bad. The crux of the argument here that you're once again changing is that AEW is looking better and better as the weeks go by and that 1.5 - 1.6 doesn't look as safe as it once did. No one is saying that this means WWE is dying. It only means that AEW is gaining more of a foothold in U.S. wrestling in comparison as far as the CABLE AUDIENCE to the bigger machine. There's nothing wrong in a fan acknowledging that when we all know that people are streaming like a mofo anyway. What is wrong is someone who is NOT a fan of AEW investing hours into trying to force his opinions about the product and his ridiculous viewpoints that AEW is dying down the throats of other fans. This is why people call you a troll. Because you try to make fans feel stupid for enjoying AEW and stupid for being happy for their success. That's fuckin bullshit. No one else here does that. I have come down on the others on here for doing this only to later realize that I was lumping them together with you and a few other meme accounts floating around here.
> 
> - I didn't say you had to be impressed by AEW to not be a shill. I am saying that you don't have to discredit them at every turn and be two-faced in all of your arguments. When NXT was winning, in your head you were on top of the world, now that AEW is blowing them out of the water, it doesn't matter. At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way, but clearly you want the company to fail. This is a far cry from your counterparts on here who shit on the product but actually want them to improve. Those people I don't have a problem with.
> 
> -Before, you said that you were a fan and that you shit on them because you want them to get better. I was willing to buy into that narrative for a while. Now that I see you for who you really are, I think its time I removed that bullshit from my profile. I am all for negative criticism, but not blind hate. I don't usually block or ignore people on here, but once we are done with our back and forth, you will have to go on my block list. You're getting a little too overbearing and asinine. I don't really care to see posts from someone who says he is not a fan. I suggest you do the same with me.


This is why I didn't bother replying. He tried making out the posts quoted 'were probably bullshit' but he can't be arsed to go back two pages to check them himself, claiming he hasn't seen them despite posting more than anybody else on here. He's a troll and is looking to get big replies from people when he can't be arsed to address the points raised, only to try and deflect and get you to engage with his new rather large post filled with discussion different from points made originally. Legit waste of time.


----------



## taker1986

LifeInCattleClass said:


> couple more, for sure
> 
> not the big ones though - RAW still ahead overall, even if no competition


Without the competition from NXT the only ones WWE should feel safe from winning is the +50 demo.

If you look at the other ones AEW is either surpassing Raw or gaining ground pretty quickly.

F18-49 - Back in April Raw was 130+% this week Raw leads by 45%

M18-49 - Raw was winning by +100% most weeks in April and May, their lead was 25% this week.

F12-34 - AEW takes it this week.

M12-34 - Raw won every week in April by more than 100% and most week in April and May by the same number. This week Raw won by 11%

Bar P50+ AEW is either overtaking Raw or gaining ground on Raw, without the competition from NXT there's no reason why they couldn't win all these demos. Tbh I totally believe that they're only an NXT moving to a different night and a major Cm punk level signing away from beating them in total viewership on a consistent basis.


----------



## Erik.

Was there a quarterly break down or has that not come out yet?


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> Was there a quarterly break down or has that not come out yet?


Nope


----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## Prosper

Damn if the finish of Bucks vs B&B topped a million people then there is no doubt in my mind that AEW will be back to 1.2 - 1.4 million average cable viewers by the end of the year. RAW is doing 1.5 - 1.7. That's crazy. Then imagine where they will be when crowds are back. Provided that they stay consistent and keep the momentum of course. We still have Full Gear to build towards after All Out. Then Revolution.

The Bucks/B&B match was tame compared to what we will start getting in the coming weeks with Omega/Hangman, FTR/Bucks, Mox/MJF, Lance Archer's program, etc.


----------



## NXT Only

They peaked at over 1M, that’s insane.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


>

"Nobody wants to see vanilla midget flipping geeks like Young Bucks"

Bigger than Sasha/Io and Cole/Lee


----------



## taker1986

RelivingTheShadow said:


>

"Nobody wants to see vanilla midget flipping geeks like Young Bucks"

Bigger than Sasha/Io and Cole/Lee


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Damn if the finish of Bucks vs B&B topped a million people then there is no doubt in my mind that AEW will be back to 1.2 - 1.4 million average cable viewers by the end of the year. RAW is doing 1.5 - 1.7. That's crazy. Then imagine where they will be when crowds are back. Provided that they stay consistent and keep the momentum of course. We still have Full Gear to build towards after All Out. Then Revolution.
> 
> The Bucks/B&B match was tame compared to what we will start getting in the coming weeks with Omega/Hangman, FTR/Bucks, Mox/MJF, Lance Archer's program, etc.


I 100% assure you, they will break their debut episode rating at some point in the next 18 months after crowds come back. They are actually building stars, the stars are connecting, and they have a INSANE amount of shit under their sleeve.

They hardly do Cage matches, Ladder matches on TV, Blood and Guts etc. 

Tony Khan said they aren't gonna slow down in bringing guys in(which I think the rosters packed right now, but hey, more guys isn't a bad thing especially with 2nd show), and maybe I'm the only one that thinks this, I think NJPW guys are going to come in, not because of a formation of a partnership, but the new standard in Wrestling is going to be working out contracts like Jericho, Moxley and Gallows and Anderson where you can work for multiple promotions. I have no doubt someone like Ibushi will go for a deal like that, he will make way more money.

People got riled up over the three losses in a row for no reason, yes, the 6/24 show wasn't a great rating, but that was predominantly a clip show to hype up Fyter Fest. Fyter Fest literally lost it's main event due to WWE incompetence, and had they had Moxley/Cage, they probably win night 2.

And now, for a basic Dynamite show that was well booked, they are peaking at 1 million viewers, that's a statement, getting a big viewership for a hot shot title unification match means NOTHING.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

And for fucks sake can we get PAC back! Holy shit I miss Triangulo De La Muerte, the 6 mans those guys are gonna have are gonna be nuts.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I 100% assure you, they will break their debut episode rating at some point in the next 18 months after crowds come back. They are actually building stars, the stars are connecting, and they have a INSANE amount of shit under their sleeve.
> 
> They hardly do Cage matches, Ladder matches on TV, Blood and Guts etc.
> 
> Tony Khan said they aren't gonna slow down in bringing guys in(which I think the rosters packed right now, but hey, more guys isn't a bad thing especially with 2nd show), and maybe I'm the only one that thinks this, I think NJPW guys are going to come in, not because of a formation of a partnership, but the new standard in Wrestling is going to be working out contracts like Jericho, Moxley and Gallows and Anderson where you can work for multiple promotions. I have no doubt someone like Ibushi will go for a deal like that, he will make way more money.
> 
> People got riled up over the three losses in a row for no reason, yes, the 6/24 show wasn't a great rating, but that was predominantly a clip show to hype up Fyter Fest. Fyter Fest literally lost it's main event due to WWE incompetence, and had they had Moxley/Cage, they probably win night 2.
> 
> And now, for a basic Dynamite show that was well booked, they are peaking at 1 million viewers, that's a statement, getting a big viewership for a hot shot title unification match means NOTHING.


I believe it. And yeah bro they don't do many gimmick matches at all. Blood and Guts will about the Elite Power Struggle now and may involve the Horsemen, there's no way that doesn't draw a 1.5-1.6 rating if they build it for multiple weeks. Especially with a live crowd. This is provided that this momentum continues to go on, which I'm sure it will with 3 PPV's coming up to build to without much filler time in between. And like you said they rarely spam gimmick matches on TV so they have so much that they can go with in the form of ladder matches, cage matches, unsanctioned matches, etc they can do on TV every now and then. NJPW stars coming in for quick paydays would be awesome.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> And for fucks sake can we get PAC back! Holy shit I miss Triangulo De La Muerte, the 6 mans those guys are gonna have are gonna be nuts.


Dude that's crazy that we don't have PAC back yet and the show is setting up to be A+ stuff in the coming weeks, I'm gonna go crazy when PAC returns he's legit my favorite male wrestling talent in the business right now lol what a beast he is


----------



## Erik.

That's awesome for Butcher & The Blade who are improving every single time.


RelivingTheShadow said:


> And for fucks sake can we get PAC back! Holy shit I miss Triangulo De La Muerte, the 6 mans those guys are gonna have are gonna be nuts.


To think, we had this awesome Dynamite and we didn't even have Moxley, PAC, Penta, Fenix or Omega in matches.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> I believe it. And yeah bro they don't do many gimmick matches at all. Blood and Guts will about the Elite Power Struggle now and may involve the Horsemen, there's no way that doesn't draw a 1.5-1.6 rating if they build it for multiple weeks. Especially with a live crowd. This is provided that this momentum continues to go on, which I'm sure it will with 3 PPV's coming up to build to without much filler time in between. And like you said they rarely spam gimmick matches on TV so they have so much that they can go with in the form of ladder matches, cage matches, unsanctioned matches, etc they can do on TV every now and then. NJPW stars coming in for quick paydays would be awesome.
> 
> Dude that's crazy that we don't have PAC back yet and the show is setting up to be A+ stuff in the coming weeks, I'm gonna go crazy when PAC returns he's legit my favorite male wrestling talent in the business right now lol what a beast he is


Not to mention, when crowds are back they can literally revisit EVERYTHING and it'll feel fresh. Fuck yeah I wanna see Jericho Vs. OC with a crowd, I wanna see Mox Vs. Brodie with a crowd etc.

As far as PAC goes, I'd like to see Pentagon or Fenix get a TNT title shot, they lose and PAC attacks Cody after so you have a hot program for him right out of the gate.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Not to mention, when crowds are back they can literally revisit EVERYTHING and it'll feel fresh. Fuck yeah I wanna see Jericho Vs. OC with a crowd, I wanna see Mox Vs. Brodie with a crowd etc.
> 
> As far as PAC goes, I'd like to see Pentagon or Fenix get a TNT title shot, they lose and PAC attacks Cody after so you have a hot program for him right out of the gate.


Definitely, both matches would be great in front of a live crowd, especially for OC who NEEDS a crowd for his act to be justified. PAC vs Cody is the perfect program for the TNT Title. I really wanted that for All Out but it's not gonna happen at this point. By the time PAC comes back, Cody will probably have already lost the title. Doesn't mean we can't get it in the future though.


----------



## P Thriller

NXT is never going to consistently beat AEW every week as long as Vince continues to treat it like developmental. Triple H clearly sees it as a third brand but Vince doesn't see it that way at all. Just in the past year or so he has stolen Ricochet, Aleister Black, Angel Garza, Street Profits, Viking Raiders, Bianca Belair, Lacey Evans, Kairi Sane, Shayna Baszler, Heavy Machinery, Matt Riddle and countless others. Guys like Ricochet, Riddle and Garza had stories left to tell where they could rise up the ranks and probably become champions. Instead Vince took them away and what did he ever give NXT in return? Finn Balor and Breezango. That isn't treating them like a third brand they should be receiving main roster talent in return every time vince steals from them. Can you imagine if AEW had lost countless numbers of talented guys before they even peaked yet? AEW is always going to have the advantage because they can actually tell long term stories and not have to worry about their boss ruining everything on a whim. 

Obviously NXT has other issues as well. But if they still had guys like Riddle, Garza, Street Profits and Ricochet and we got to watch them instead of Killian Dain, Dexter Lumis, Oney Lorcan and Dijakovic every week they would be putting on a much better show.


----------



## Danielallen1410

prosperwithdeen said:


> -This entire post is bullshit my guy. From what I see, you're looking for another 3-4 page debate. I can go back and quote you like everyone else has been doing, but I honestly don't care to. You're now saying you're not a fan of AEW, but most of the posts in this section (a very active section by the way) come from you. The AEW home page clearly says that you have the most posts. Its been that way for a while now. So you're telling me you hate the product but you decide to spend hours on here shitting on it and coming up with every angle in the book to discredit them. Good to know. Why would you even do that? What do you gain?
> 
> -Of course you didn't watch Dynamite this week. Why would you watch the best show they have put on? That would be too much for little old Wood. You don't owe them any positive talk but you owe them 10 pages of shit talk per week. Good to know that as well.
> 
> -You're not pro-WWE? Okay Wood. RAW will never drop to 600K. Triple H would legit suplex Vince McMahon IRL if things were to ever get that bad. The crux of the argument here that you're once again changing is that AEW is looking better and better as the weeks go by and that 1.5 - 1.6 doesn't look as safe as it once did. No one is saying that this means WWE is dying. It only means that AEW is gaining more of a foothold in U.S. wrestling in comparison as far as the CABLE AUDIENCE to the bigger machine. There's nothing wrong in a fan acknowledging that when we all know that people are streaming like a mofo anyway. What is wrong is someone who is NOT a fan of AEW investing hours into trying to force his opinions about the product and his ridiculous viewpoints that AEW is dying down the throats of other fans. This is why people call you a troll. Because you try to make fans feel stupid for enjoying AEW and stupid for being happy for their success. That's fuckin bullshit my guy. No one else here does that. I have come down on the others on here for doing this only to later realize that I was lumping them together with you and a few other meme accounts floating around here.
> 
> - I didn't say you had to be impressed by AEW to not be a shill. I am saying that you don't have to discredit them at every turn and be two-faced in all of your arguments. When NXT was winning, in your head you were on top of the world, now that AEW is blowing them out of the water, it doesn't matter. At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way, but clearly you want the company to fail. This is a far cry from your counterparts on here who shit on the product but actually want them to improve. Those people I don't have a problem with.
> 
> -Before, you said that you were a fan and that you shit on them because you want them to get better. I was willing to buy into that narrative for a while. Now that I see you for who you really are, I think its time I removed that bullshit from my profile. I am all for negative criticism, but not blind hate. I don't usually block or ignore people on here, but once we are done with our back and forth, you will have to go on my block list. You're getting a little too overbearing and asinine. I don't really care to see posts from someone who says he is not a fan. I suggest you do the same with me.


round of applause. 

The Wood is a complete cancer on this forum and before you come on and defend yourself, ask yourself why nearly everyone thinks it. Sometimes you need to look at yourself and realise you are pissing everyone off and stop making out it’s everyone else’s fault.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Also, I want to add that I fucking HATE, detest the dumb idea that "Wrestling just isn't cool anymore, Wrestling is just too niche".

What the fuck kind of a statement is that? Literally a baseless, factless argument created to just fit a dumb narrative. Wrestling lost popularity because WWE DROVE PEOPLE AWAY WITH IT'S GARBAGE PRODUCT.

AEW hasn't been perfect, and they are nowhere near being mainstream relevant, that's going to take a long time and ultimately might never happen if they don't luck into the right star. However, I give them a semblance of a chance since they are willing to build stars.


----------



## NXT Only

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Also, I want to add that I fucking HATE, detest the dumb idea that "Wrestling just isn't cool anymore, Wrestling is just too niche".


Wrestling is a niche product whether you like it or not. It has a specific target fan base and caters to a certain type of viewer. It's still cool but that doesn't mean it isn't a niche product. AEW realizes that luckily.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> -This entire post is bullshit my guy. From what I see, you're looking for another 3-4 page debate. I can go back and quote you like everyone else has been doing, but I honestly don't care to. You're now saying you're not a fan of AEW, but most of the posts in this section (a very active section by the way) come from you. The AEW home page clearly says that you have the most posts. Its been that way for a while now. So you're telling me you hate the product but you decide to spend hours on here shitting on it and coming up with every angle in the book to discredit them. Good to know. Why would you even do that? What do you gain?
> 
> -Of course you didn't watch Dynamite this week. Why would you watch the best show they have put on? That would be too much for little old Wood. You don't owe them any positive talk but you owe them 10 pages of shit talk per week. Good to know that as well.
> 
> -You're not pro-WWE? Okay Wood. RAW will never drop to 600K. Triple H would legit suplex Vince McMahon IRL if things were to ever get that bad. The crux of the argument here that you're once again changing is that AEW is looking better and better as the weeks go by and that 1.5 - 1.6 doesn't look as safe as it once did. No one is saying that this means WWE is dying. It only means that AEW is gaining more of a foothold in U.S. wrestling in comparison as far as the CABLE AUDIENCE to the bigger machine. There's nothing wrong in a fan acknowledging that when we all know that people are streaming like a mofo anyway. What is wrong is someone who is NOT a fan of AEW investing hours into trying to force his opinions about the product and his ridiculous viewpoints that AEW is dying down the throats of other fans. This is why people call you a troll. Because you try to make fans feel stupid for enjoying AEW and stupid for being happy for their success. That's fuckin bullshit my guy. No one else here does that. I have come down on the others on here for doing this only to later realize that I was lumping them together with you and a few other meme accounts floating around here.
> 
> - I didn't say you had to be impressed by AEW to not be a shill. I am saying that you don't have to discredit them at every turn and be two-faced in all of your arguments. When NXT was winning, in your head you were on top of the world, now that AEW is blowing them out of the water, it doesn't matter. At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way, but clearly you want the company to fail. This is a far cry from your counterparts on here who shit on the product but actually want them to improve. Those people I don't have a problem with.
> 
> -Before, you said that you were a fan and that you shit on them because you want them to get better. I was willing to buy into that narrative for a while. Now that I see you for who you really are, I think its time I removed that bullshit from my profile. I am all for negative criticism, but not blind hate. I don't usually block or ignore people on here, but once we are done with our back and forth, you will have to go on my block list. You're getting a little too overbearing and asinine. I don't really care to see posts from someone who says he is not a fan. I suggest you do the same with me.


I thought you were better than this. Honestly. Who cares if I have the most posts? It’s because I LOVE talking about wrestling. I’ve never denied that nor shied away from it. You don’t have to love something to talk about it. I don’t love the WWE, but I’ll talk about it too. That is asinine and more “Why don’t you go and do something else?” wrestling fan shaming. Yeah, it SUCKS that modern wrestling, for the most part, isn’t very good. It’s the bane of a _wrestling_ fan’s existence. And no, I never said I “hated” them and that I spend time trying to discredit them. *You made that up.* 

I don’t watch Dynamite every week. It airs during the day here, so very often I am at work or doing something when it airs. Not only that, but sometimes I just, frankly, don’t feel like it. Gasp. Shock, horror. All these times of having apologists tell me to do something else with my time and I do and it doesn’t suit them. It’s not “too much” (wtf?), I just haven’t watched yet, nor do I watch every week. I didn’t know if it was going to be good or not before I skipped it. By the way. I said somewhere that “I heard it was good” because I trust the opinion of some reasonable people here. But that was too much for you, wasn’t it. ;-)

No, AEW is not looking better and better as the weeks go by. WWE is looking worse and worse, but AEW is not looking better, nor are Wednesday nights in general. Can you find me a week where the live viewership on Wednesday has exceeded that 1.5 million people? And if you feel stupid for liking AEW, that is on you. Get more confident in your tastes and be able to reason them when they’re discussed on a DISCUSSION FORUM.

“Trying to force.” Bullshit. This is _you_ trying to force. I make my arguments. There is nothing wrong with that. I don’t say that AEW is going to die. I’ve said, very consistently and very firmly, that AEW is going to be around for as long as the Khans want to keep it afloat. Everyone knows that. You are just, frankly, lying to try and discredit me. That is why you can’t quote those posts. They don’t exist.

There are some great posters here, and if they want to clear their throats for you, that is their business. I don’t feel the need to do that, nor do I want to do that. Not for your feelings and not to avoid smears like this. Bring it. It’s very obvious from my posts I am a wrestling fan and someone that wants to see the product improve, and I offer many solutions, strategies and ideas. What you’re doing is fallaciously using the accepted criticism of others to single out mine as inappropriate, which it is not. “I like such and such, so when I say I don’t like you, it should have power.” No, doesn’t work that way. 

Haha, imagine if I had to say “Now, just a reminder, I want AEW to succeed...” with every post. It is not only tiresome and redundant, but you shouldn’t need to be coddled that much.

Of course I want the product to improve. Who wouldn’t?

Hang on, when did AEW start blowing NXT out of the water? I must have missed this, because last I checked, they won the last two weeks. Before that, were they getting blown out of the water? Funny, it seems that when AEW is winning, you’re on top of the world, but when NXT wins...

Do you see? I just challenge the false narrative that AEW is somehow busting down doors it isn’t. Was NXT changing the world when it got over 800k a few weeks ago? And no, I wasn’t “on top of the world.” That’s you projecting. I’ve long said that wrestling should be doing way better than that. Doing <1 million is not impressive for a wrestling show. And everyone knows I’ve said this. Much easier to just ignore it though and pretend I am rooting for WWE to win and AEW to crash in flames. Yay, Vince McMahon monopoly!

This stance of mine has never changed nor wavered.

“At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way...” Thanks for admitting it. ;-)

No, I don’t think I’ve ever said I was an “AEW fan.” Ever. Holy shit, do I get misquoted a lot? I’m a fan of wrestling and I do want them to get better, because I would love to be a fan of theirs one day. But they haven’t endeared themselves to me yet. What would be weird is if I called myself a fan and then spent all my time shitting on them and being unhappy. By the way, I am not a WWE fan either, and would deny those allegations too.

Man, imagine thinking that pointing out that 845k viewers and a 0.32 demo isn’t a death blow is “blind hate.” I get accused of shifting goalposts by people who don’t really know what it means, but how about we talk about how radically that bar has been lowered?

And do put me on ignore. I honestly couldn’t care. I’m very confident in what I bring to the forum, and I love sharing it with people who want to properly discuss ideas. If you’re just going to lie and sneakily use your validation of others (like you’re some measuring stick) to try and discredit me, I won’t lose any sleep. 



Freezer Geezer said:


> This is why I didn't bother replying. He tried making out the posts quoted 'were probably bullshit' but he can't be arsed to go back two pages to check them himself, claiming he hasn't seen them despite posting more than anybody else on here. He's a troll and is looking to get big replies from people when he can't be arsed to address the points raised, only to try and deflect and get you to engage with his new rather large post filled with discussion different from points made originally. Legit waste of time.


Well, you did reply. And no, I didn’t read your posts. Don’t flatter yourself. Pavel, is that you?

No, I can’t be arsed to go back two pages and read what a troll has posted about me. Either bring it up in conversation with me or don’t. I say they’re probably bullshit because after reading the post of yours I did read, I came to the conclusion it’s probably bullshit.

Yes, if there’s one thing I’m known for here it is letting something go and deliberately avoiding conversation. Holy shit.


----------



## The Wood

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Also, I want to add that I fucking HATE, detest the dumb idea that "Wrestling just isn't cool anymore, Wrestling is just too niche".
> 
> What the fuck kind of a statement is that? Literally a baseless, factless argument created to just fit a dumb narrative. Wrestling lost popularity because WWE DROVE PEOPLE AWAY WITH IT'S GARBAGE PRODUCT.
> 
> AEW hasn't been perfect, and they are nowhere near being mainstream relevant, that's going to take a long time and ultimately might never happen if they don't luck into the right star. However, I give them a semblance of a chance since they are willing to build stars.


I don’t agree with most of your posts, and I’m not even sure we mean it the same way, but in a general sense I completely agree with this.

The WWE has done a lot of damage (and WCW, TNA and AEW too — no one should be let off the hook), and has chased a lot of people away. It doesn’t mean they can’t come back or that it has to be that way. Accepting that dealt hand is defeatist. It’s masochistic, and it’s too often used as a defence for bad wrestling not mattering or even being desirable.

How often do you hear “It’s supposed to be bad” or some variant? bdon at least has noble and intelligent reasons for wanting wrestling out of the mainstream eye. A lot of others just do it because they’re either consciously or subconsciously gatekeeping an alienating product. It’s more important that it is theirs than successful.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I do think the deadly draw tournament is going to bomb in the ratings, but hopefully I'm wrong on that.


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> I thought you were better than this. Honestly. Who cares if I have the most posts? It’s because* I LOVE talking negatively about wrestling*. I’ve never denied that nor shied away from it. You don’t have to love something to talk about it. I don’t love the WWE, but I’ll talk about it too. That is asinine and more “Why don’t you go and do something else?” wrestling fan shaming. Yeah, it SUCKS that modern wrestling, for the most part, isn’t very good. It’s the bane of a _wrestling_ fan’s existence. And no, I never said I “hated” them and that I spend time trying to discredit them. *.*
> 
> I don’t watch Dynamite every week. It airs during the day here, so very often I am at work or doing something when it airs. Not only that, but sometimes I just, frankly, don’t feel like it. Gasp. Shock, horror. All these times of having apologists tell me to do something else with my time and I do and it doesn’t suit them. It’s not “too much” (wtf?), I just haven’t watched yet, nor do I watch every week. I didn’t know if it was going to be good or not before I skipped it. By the way. I said somewhere that “I heard it was good” because I trust the opinion of some reasonable people here. But that was too much for you, wasn’t it. ;-)
> 
> No, AEW is not looking better and better as the weeks go by. WWE is looking worse and worse, but AEW is not looking better, nor are Wednesday nights in general. Can you find me a week where the live viewership on Wednesday has exceeded that 1.5 million people? And if you feel stupid for liking AEW, that is on you. Get more confident in your tastes and be able to reason them when they’re discussed on a DISCUSSION FORUM.
> 
> “Trying to force.” Bullshit. This is _you_ trying to force. I make my arguments. There is nothing wrong with that. I don’t say that AEW is going to die. I’ve said, very consistently and very firmly, that AEW is going to be around for as long as the Khans want to keep it afloat. Everyone knows that. You are just, frankly, lying to try and discredit me. That is why you can’t quote those posts. They don’t exist.
> 
> There are some great posters here, and if they want to clear their throats for you, that is their business. I don’t feel the need to do that, nor do I want to do that. Not for your feelings and not to avoid smears like this. Bring it. It’s very obvious from my posts I am a wrestling fan and someone that wants to see the product improve, and I offer many solutions, strategies and ideas. What you’re doing is fallaciously using the accepted criticism of others to single out mine as inappropriate, which it is not. “I like such and such, so when I say I don’t like you, it should have power.” No, doesn’t work that way.
> 
> Haha, imagine if I had to say “Now, just a reminder, I want AEW to succeed...” with every post. It is not only tiresome and redundant, but you shouldn’t need to be coddled that much.
> 
> Of course I want the product to improve. Who wouldn’t?
> 
> Hang on, when did AEW start blowing NXT out of the water? I must have missed this, because last I checked, they won the last two weeks. Before that, were they getting blown out of the water? Funny, it seems that when AEW is winning, you’re on top of the world, but when NXT wins...
> 
> Do you see? I just challenge the false narrative that AEW is somehow busting down doors it isn’t. Was NXT changing the world when it got over 800k a few weeks ago? And no, I wasn’t “on top of the world.” That’s you projecting. I’ve long said that wrestling should be doing way better than that. Doing <1 million is not impressive for a wrestling show. And everyone knows I’ve said this. Much easier to just ignore it though and pretend I am rooting for WWE to win and AEW to crash in flames. Yay, Vince McMahon monopoly!
> 
> This stance of mine has never changed nor wavered.
> 
> “At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way...” Thanks for admitting it. ;-)


Fixed it for ya.

More fool anyone that responds to this self admitted hater of the aew with a similar essay long post.


----------



## The Wood

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I do think the deadly draw tournament is going to bomb in the ratings, but hopefully I'm wrong on that.


Tournaments don’t do well in the US, traditionally. Women wrestling in the middle can do well, because of the gap factor. They probably could have just done some tag team matches without committing to this idea though, because now they’ll have to see it through over several weeks.

Sorry, I forgot to state that I desperately want AEW to succeed.


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> Fixed it for ya.
> 
> More fool anyone that responds to this self admitted hater of the aew with a similar essay long post.


No, I love talking about wrestling. Have plenty of great conversations about great things. And where did “self admitted hater” come from? It didn’t come from me, so how could it be self-admitted? More lies.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

More info on Bucks/B&B from Meltzer.

"Most watched match in demo on Wednesday of the pandemic,finish topped 500K in 18-49, betting DVR viewership will be through the roof as well."

Cole/Lee did 350K I believe.


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> No, I love talking about wrestling. Have plenty of great conversations about great things. And where did “self admitted hater” come from? It didn’t come from me, so how could it be self-admitted? More lies.


Yeah I mean you only mentioned it a few pages back to me that you dont like aew.

Dont bother wasting your time with follow up, it pointless reasoning with someone that doesnt want to be reasoned with and just wants dwell on negativity of a product like a true jim cornette mark.


----------



## NXT Only

Holy shit Wood


----------



## RainmakerV2

No surprise they peaked so high in the first hour. It had Cody, Eddie Kingston, MJF, Moxley, Cage, Tazz, Archer, Darby, and the Bucks. Its not Rocket Science, put your stars on the show in meaningful shit and suddenly people watch. I know these guys wanna be nice and give their buddies TV time, but thats what they have Dark for.


----------



## Swan-San

Good that a good half of TV got a good rating, hoping for a 100k loss for the main event


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Alright now! Aew got a good number and bounced back like I knew they would. Love to see it!


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> Yeah I mean you only mentioned it a few pages back to me that you dont like aew.
> 
> Dont bother wasting your time with follow up, it pointless reasoning with someone that doesnt want to be reasoned with and just wants dwell on negativity of a product like a true jim cornette mark.


I said I’m not a fan. That’s not the same thing as being hater. But sure, I’m the one being unreasonable.

“Are you a Spider-Man fan?”
“You know what? Lately I haven’t enjoyed the...”
“HATER!”

I’m not going to blindly pledge my allegiance to a wrestling promotion. My fandom is in wrestling that makes sense and doesn’t insult its audience intelligence. AEW still has a long way to go. I was a fan of their potential, but then I saw what they were going to put forward. Sorry that doesn’t fit your paradigm of how people should think about AEW.



RainmakerV2 said:


> No surprise they peaked so high in the first hour. It had Cody, Eddie Kingston, MJF, Moxley, Cage, Tazz, Archer, Darby, and the Bucks. Its not Rocket Science, put your stars on the show in meaningful shit and suddenly people watch. I know these guys wanna be nice and give their buddies TV time, but thats what they have Dark for.


Even Dark is a stretch too far. It does cap the entire product. Talking about giving your mates token jobs on their own TV show is a bizarre direction for the wrestling business to be going.


----------



## rbl85

Wood i thought NXT was the better product, what happened ?


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Wood i thought NXT was the better product, what happened ?


It is the better product overall. That being said, it’s also been ineffective at making new fans. It’s the same 1.5 million people each week. *Does anyone dispute this?*

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: This is a mobilised audience. That’s how they sold out All Out. That’s why they did well with live gates out the gate. This has the “IWC” support. That has been the hardest thing for NXT to overcome, because they are affiliated with the evil empire.

It gives them an advantage in other ways. They surely have the larger international reach and access to the world’s best talent. But they are battling the will of the internet for AEW to win. The “other guys” are the babyfaces. *Does anyone dispute this?*

This is why NXT beating AEW is more monumental than AEW beating NXT. One is a norm that should have been predicted — which I did (and was surely not alone in doing). So the swing counts for something. Now, you can debate whether this is a loss in popularity for AEW, a boost for NXT or just bad decisions on AEW’s part. Lightning strikes incapacitated all the usual AEW viewers, whatever. But turning of the tide in that direction is just more inherently interesting than the internet audience siding with the show the internet wants to do well. It’s not that complicated.

And yes, this is going to sound “biased” and “rigged” to people, but if you think about it, I’m sure it will ring true: NXT needs to overtake AEW, and to do that, it needs to be better _somehow_. Either in terms of quality, stars or AEW’s decline. *Does anyone dispute that?* That is why those weeks there were so compelling.

It’s possible fans have caught wind of AEW struggling for a few weeks and have made the effort for it. That’s not unusual in television, let alone for something with such a mobilised audience. It’s also possible that NXT are experiencing a lull after their destination show and desperately need something to build to. It’s also quite possible that Jim Cornette has boosted viewership a little with his reviews (deal with it — promotion is promotion).

It’s probably a lot more complicated than “Woo! AEW! Great show this week! Great show equals great ratings! Woo! Onwards to 1 million!” It’s also probably not as significant as anything as specific as I’m suggesting at the same time. Fuck, we’re still talking about a few boxes here, people. And, as I’ve also said, no one has ever accused Americans of having great taste. I know it’s hard for people to compartmentalise that someone can talk about the ratings and try to determine what is actually going on while at the same time not believing there is actually a necessary relationship between that and quality, but it is possible. 

It’s just so frustrating to see the bizarre ecstasy experienced over an 845k rating. It’s just not a sexy number. Sorry, but it’s not. It wouldn’t be if NXT got it either, like they did the other week. It’s the same fans cycling around.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> I’m not going to blindly pledge my allegiance to a wrestling promotion.


You're blindly following WWE straight to cancel-ville. If you love WWE so much, how come we never see you in the Raw threads over there? You're such a big WWE fan, why not criticize them instead of another show that you don't care about?

You're a paid poster of WWE. It's why you been here since 2003 lol. You aint fooling anyone


----------



## Freezer Geezer

He's really reaching now, guys.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> It is the better product overall.


If you're 60 years or older, sure. Nobody else watches NXT.


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> I said I’m not a fan. That’s not the same thing as being hater. But sure, I’m the one being unreasonable.
> 
> “*Are you a Spider-Man fan?”
> “You know what? Lately I haven’t enjoyed the...”
> “HATER!”*
> 
> I’m not going to blindly pledge my allegiance to a wrestling promotion. My fandom is in wrestling that makes sense and doesn’t insult its audience intelligence. AEW still has a long way to go. I was a fan of their potential, but then I saw what they were going to put forward. Sorry that doesn’t fit your paradigm of how people should think about AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Even Dark is a stretch too far. It does cap the entire product. Talking about giving your mates token jobs on their own TV show is a bizarre direction for the wrestling business to be going.


But I dont spend all my time in writing essay long negative posts about spiderman in a forum about the film because if I'm not a fan of something I dont then insanely spend all my time writing endless negative essays about something I dislike like any rational thinking human being would do.


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> You're blindly following WWE straight to cancel-ville. If you love WWE so much, how come we never see you in the Raw threads over there? You're such a big WWE fan, why not criticize them instead of another show that you don't care about?
> 
> You're a paid poster of WWE. It's why you been here since 2003 lol. You aint fooling anyone


But I’m not following WWE...you kind of addressed that by explaining that you don’t see me in the Raw threads. This has to be a troll account. I especially love the emphasis on me being a fan of wrestling for at least 17 years pointing to me being a troll.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TK confirmations


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286768978619179009


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK confirmations
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286768978619179009











No, wait, that’s


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> But I’m not following WWE...you kind of addressed that by explaining that you don’t see me in the Raw threads. This has to be a troll account. I especially love the emphasis on me being a fan of wrestling for at least 17 years pointing to me being a troll.


What kind of wrestling fan only posts in one forum to criticize one show? A retard does. Are you a retard? I'm just going to call you Kevin Dunn. Kevin, please get off this forum and write some better TV shows. Plz


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> But I dont spend all my time in writing essay long negative posts about spiderman in a forum about the film because if I'm not a fan of something I dont then insanely spend all my time writing endless negative essays about something I dislike like any rational thinking human being would do.


I don’t care what you do and don’t do. Plenty of people do. Plenty of people love comic books and will discuss why they do or don’t like the film adaptations, or why they do or don’t like certain characters, writers, artists, arcs, issues or why they prefer Marvel or DC. People do that with EVERYTHING. This is just an anti-criticism point. If you don’t want to be a critic, don’t be a critic. Easy.

That you don’t do it doesn’t make it the right way to be though. It doesn’t make the way other people choose to spend their time bad for picking it as their hobby. THAT is the most arrogant thing that happens in these forums. I get accused of being arrogant, yet I am constantly faced with “Well, _I_ don’t do this...” Great. _I_ am not you, and I don’t want to be you. Stop trying to tell other people how to enjoy themselves. If you’ve got a problem with my criticisms, *respond to the criticisms.* It really isn’t that hard, haha.


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> What kind of wrestling fan only posts in one forum to criticize one show? A retard does. Are you a retard? I'm just going to call you Kevin Dunn. Kevin, please get off this forum and write some better TV shows. Plz


When you’ve got nothing left, resort to ableist slurs and lying. Classic internet troll.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Wood said:


> When you’ve got nothing left, resort to ableist slurs and lying. Classic internet troll.


I got nothing left to talk to you about. You're a mindless WWE shill who only participates in one forum to criticize the competion. You'd think Vince would be able to pay his employees to make better use of their time. You're not fooling anyone.

You have a stake in WWE. And somehow you believe criticizing its compettion is going to protect it. I got a answer for that. It won't. Your company is going to be sold or bankrupt in 5 years. Deal with it. Talking trash about AEW ain't going to help you keep a job.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> I got nothing left to talk to you about. You're a mindless WWE shill who only participates in one forum to criticize the competion. You'd think Vince would be able to pay his employees to make better use of their time. You're not fooling anyone.
> 
> You have a stake in WWE. And somehow you believe criticizing its compettion is going to protect it. I got a answer for that. It won't. Your company is going to be sold or bankrupt in 5 years. Deal with it. Talking trash about AEW ain't going to help you keep a job.


Except I do post over there. :-/



Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> I thought you were better than this. Honestly. Who cares if I have the most posts? It’s because I LOVE talking about wrestling. I’ve never denied that nor shied away from it. You don’t have to love something to talk about it. I don’t love the WWE, but I’ll talk about it too. That is asinine and more “Why don’t you go and do something else?” wrestling fan shaming. Yeah, it SUCKS that modern wrestling, for the most part, isn’t very good. It’s the bane of a _wrestling_ fan’s existence. And no, I never said I “hated” them and that I spend time trying to discredit them. *You made that up.*
> 
> I don’t watch Dynamite every week. It airs during the day here, so very often I am at work or doing something when it airs. Not only that, but sometimes I just, frankly, don’t feel like it. Gasp. Shock, horror. All these times of having apologists tell me to do something else with my time and I do and it doesn’t suit them. It’s not “too much” (wtf?), I just haven’t watched yet, nor do I watch every week. I didn’t know if it was going to be good or not before I skipped it. By the way. I said somewhere that “I heard it was good” because I trust the opinion of some reasonable people here. But that was too much for you, wasn’t it. ;-)
> 
> No, AEW is not looking better and better as the weeks go by. WWE is looking worse and worse, but AEW is not looking better, nor are Wednesday nights in general. Can you find me a week where the live viewership on Wednesday has exceeded that 1.5 million people? And if you feel stupid for liking AEW, that is on you. Get more confident in your tastes and be able to reason them when they’re discussed on a DISCUSSION FORUM.
> 
> “Trying to force.” Bullshit. This is _you_ trying to force. I make my arguments. There is nothing wrong with that. I don’t say that AEW is going to die. I’ve said, very consistently and very firmly, that AEW is going to be around for as long as the Khans want to keep it afloat. Everyone knows that. You are just, frankly, lying to try and discredit me. That is why you can’t quote those posts. They don’t exist.
> 
> There are some great posters here, and if they want to clear their throats for you, that is their business. I don’t feel the need to do that, nor do I want to do that. Not for your feelings and not to avoid smears like this. Bring it. It’s very obvious from my posts I am a wrestling fan and someone that wants to see the product improve, and I offer many solutions, strategies and ideas. What you’re doing is fallaciously using the accepted criticism of others to single out mine as inappropriate, which it is not. “I like such and such, so when I say I don’t like you, it should have power.” No, doesn’t work that way.
> 
> Haha, imagine if I had to say “Now, just a reminder, I want AEW to succeed...” with every post. It is not only tiresome and redundant, but you shouldn’t need to be coddled that much.
> 
> Of course I want the product to improve. Who wouldn’t?
> 
> Hang on, when did AEW start blowing NXT out of the water? I must have missed this, because last I checked, they won the last two weeks. Before that, were they getting blown out of the water? Funny, it seems that when AEW is winning, you’re on top of the world, but when NXT wins...
> 
> Do you see? I just challenge the false narrative that AEW is somehow busting down doors it isn’t. Was NXT changing the world when it got over 800k a few weeks ago? And no, I wasn’t “on top of the world.” That’s you projecting. I’ve long said that wrestling should be doing way better than that. Doing <1 million is not impressive for a wrestling show. And everyone knows I’ve said this. Much easier to just ignore it though and pretend I am rooting for WWE to win and AEW to crash in flames. Yay, Vince McMahon monopoly!
> 
> This stance of mine has never changed nor wavered.
> 
> “At first I thought you were legitimately presenting arguments, and it did seem that way...” Thanks for admitting it. ;-)
> 
> No, I don’t think I’ve ever said I was an “AEW fan.” Ever. Holy shit, do I get misquoted a lot? I’m a fan of wrestling and I do want them to get better, because I would love to be a fan of theirs one day. But they haven’t endeared themselves to me yet. What would be weird is if I called myself a fan and then spent all my time shitting on them and being unhappy. By the way, I am not a WWE fan either, and would deny those allegations too.
> 
> Man, imagine thinking that pointing out that 845k viewers and a 0.32 demo isn’t a death blow is “blind hate.” I get accused of shifting goalposts by people who don’t really know what it means, but how about we talk about how radically that bar has been lowered?
> 
> And do put me on ignore. I honestly couldn’t care. I’m very confident in what I bring to the forum, and I love sharing it with people who want to properly discuss ideas. If you’re just going to lie and sneakily use your validation of others (like you’re some measuring stick) to try and discredit me, I won’t lose any sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you did reply. And no, I didn’t read your posts. Don’t flatter yourself. Pavel, is that you?
> 
> No, I can’t be arsed to go back two pages and read what a troll has posted about me. Either bring it up in conversation with me or don’t. I say they’re probably bullshit because after reading the post of yours I did read, I came to the conclusion it’s probably bullshit.
> 
> Yes, if there’s one thing I’m known for here it is letting something go and deliberately avoiding conversation. Holy shit.


You done bro? Aight bet. No way I'm going 3 pages with you right now.

I'll leave you with a more positive follow up seeing as we won't be interacting anymore after today. I did enjoy all the debates that we have had outside of the ratings thread. You presented a lot of great arguments and talking points in regards to storylines and characters in past threads, I do appreciate the rich back and forth arguments about AEW creative and business aspects. Even in the WWE section you've posted some good stuff. I hope everything works out for you in whatever you get into in life brotha.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


It still doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. My excitement comes from the fact that AEW is catching up to RAW in cable viewers more in a general sense, meaning more success for the company. That's all.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


The most important is the demo but if you have more viewers the better.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


I think you'll find the people that bring that up are taking the piss out of Woody and the like for crowing whilst NXT were above AEW in the overall ratings, but amazingly increasing the overall rating is no longer a big deal according to Woody now that AEW are well above NXT again. Which is also known as hypocrisy.


----------



## Dizzie

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


From thos twitter links I thought they did do well in the demo during that period where they went over 1 mil though didnt they?

For me I dont see it as huge deal though because it was only for 10 minutes but hey the product was better and they were rewarded with upwards trending demo/rating which is good for wrestling in general.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So, AEW... who is your biggest draw?

easy guy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286786264054693888


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


dude... the demo was also up during that period

and ‘yes’ - the demo is all that matters / but talking about 1m is fun

there is the distinction

me? I want that sweet 0.4 so that they can touch tips with RAW


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Actually, that would be really funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Vince must be laughing in over.


Not really considering the networks are not happy with WWEs slipping numbers.AEW and NXT run opposite of each other while RAW and SMACKDOWN run unopposed from other wrestling.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


Demo matters most. But peaking at 1M plus DVR, on demand, etc...is amazing and is a product of weeks of consistency from AEW.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not really considering the networks are not happy with WWEs slipping numbers.AEW and NXT run opposite of each other while RAW and SMACKDOWN run unopposed from other wrestling.


Yeah, I don't believe that story. If USA were unhappy with Raw, they could change that third hour and boost overall viewership. The reason they keep it is because it does better than anything else in the slot. SmackDown is usually #1 or tied for #1 in the "key demo." You aren't going to get that all-year round with a much cheaper show. 

I want to clearly state that I hope AEW does well and I hope WWE dies in a fire.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Notice how they never disclosed the minute by minute details on last week's TNT title match with Sonny.
Garbage wrestling has a ceiling. If you want a backstage brawl, do a brawl, and use it to make a wrestling match. Again, this is celebrating baby growth when they could double their ratings if they brought in Goldberg.


----------



## Erik.

Mister Sinister said:


> Notice how they never disclosed the minute by minute details on last week's TNT title match with Sonny.
> Garbage wrestling has a ceiling. If you want a backstage brawl, do a brawl, and use it to make a wrestling match. Again, this is celebrating baby growth when they could double their ratings if they brought in Goldberg.


Garbage wrestling and Goldberg in the same sentence. Apt.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The wood and otheres were running their mouths about how AEW "lost" to Nxt for a couple of weeks and said they wouldnt get back to 700-800K ..better start that cope posting


----------



## Wolf Mark

NXT Only said:


> This was built off weeks of equity invested in the fans. FFTF was so good it made fans tune back in the next week for the fall out. That's how it works. Now next week should be higher because this week was high energy. It was only a matter of time before they began their build towards All Out. I think between DoN and All-Out they need another major PPV type show or they need to a G1 Climax type tournament during that time.


TNA for a while had a "Bound for Glory tournament" which was a series of matches beginning I think in late summer or early Fall and all the wins would get you points in various manners. And the four people that had the most points, had a four-way match at Turning Point and the winner would get to face the TNA/Impact Champ at Bound for Glory. It was like a mix between the Royal Rumble(title match) and King of the Ring(tournament). If AEW could do something like that, it could be pretty interesting and it would go back to what they had mentioned at the beginning of the company about wins and losses meaning something. AEW could do something like that leading to All Out(although a little bit different than TNA's BFG series cause TNA had many issues).


----------



## Erik.




----------



## $Dolladrew$

Mister Sinister said:


> Notice how they never disclosed the minute by minute details on last week's TNT title match with Sonny.
> Garbage wrestling has a ceiling. If you want a backstage brawl, do a brawl, and use it to make a wrestling match. Again, this is celebrating baby growth when they could double their ratings if they brought in Goldberg.


I'd take incremental growth brought on by talent being viewed as elite and gaining respect of fans enough that they tune in every week.....not a pop in viewers because of trotting out fucking old ass Hogan and goldberg.Why not just bring the entire NWO to invade AEW? ...Hall,Nash,and even xpac.....hell change AEW TO ANW (ALL NOSTALGIA WRESTLING)......Nah I don't want that garbage on my screen.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

AEW Match Brings Viewers To More Than 1 Million, Backstage Talk On COVID-19 Hurting AEW Momentum - Wrestling Inc.


AEW Match Brings Viewers To More Than 1 Million, Backstage Talk On COVID-19 Hurting AEW Momentum




www.google.com





Nice job AEW


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, to those going mental at AEW over 1 million I thought the overall rating didn't matter and it was only the demo...or have we changed that this week?


bruh they did 500,000 in dat demo for tag team wrestling. Those are Smackdown demos.


----------



## Chan Hung

AEW had a solid show this past Wed. It would have been a major disappointment if the landed less than 700,000 viewers but they outdid that by a good amount.


----------



## Prosper

Mister Sinister said:


> Notice how they never disclosed the minute by minute details on last week's TNT title match with Sonny.
> Garbage wrestling has a ceiling. If you want a backstage brawl, do a brawl, and use it to make a wrestling match. Again, this is celebrating baby growth when they could double their ratings if they brought in Goldberg.


Goldberg? lol what makes you think that Goldberg would ever be signed? lmao

They have a better chance of signing The Rock


----------



## thorn123

happy about the viewership increasing, but I am keeping my excitement in check until they can back it up week after week, especially when live sport starts. I am hopeful though. It’s so good to look forward to wrestling again rather than just watching it our of habit/loyalty.


----------



## Not Lying

Mister Sinister said:


> Notice how they never disclosed the minute by minute details on last week's TNT title match with Sonny.
> Garbage wrestling has a ceiling. If you want a backstage brawl, do a brawl, and use it to make a wrestling match. Again, this is celebrating baby growth when they could double their ratings if they brought in Goldberg.


??
They did put out the quarterly/each segment numbers for last week's show, and they never disclose "minute by minute breakdowns".


----------



## The Wood

Botchy SinCara said:


> The wood and otheres were running their mouths about how AEW "lost" to Nxt for a couple of weeks and said they wouldnt get back to 700-800K ..better start that cope posting


Who said that? All I know I’ve said is that I don’t expect them to get 1 million any time soon and that they’re not expanding their fan base. It’s 1.5 million people watching each week.


----------



## rbl85

You don't post a lot in the NXT forum for someone who thinks that it is the better show.....


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You don't post a lot in the NXT forum for someone who thinks that it is the better show.....


Conversation there isn’t nearly as good.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Conversation there isn’t nearly as good.


It'd improve conversation here if you moved there


----------



## TheDraw

prosperwithdeen said:


> Goldberg? lol what makes you think that Goldberg would ever be signed? lmao
> 
> They have a better chance of signing The Rock


Hahahaha. Do people actually believe that anybody of Goldberg's caliber would sign with a company that pushes a 120 lb nerd in the main event scene? AEW fans are delusional.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> It'd improve conversation here if you moved there


Yes, because _I_ am the troll.


----------



## Erik.

TheDraw said:


> Hahahaha. Do people actually believe that anybody of Goldberg's caliber would sign with a company that pushes a 120 lb nerd in the main event scene? AEW fans are delusional.


Well, erm. No. 

Hence everyone laughing at the guy suggesting it.


----------



## ElTerrible

TheDraw said:


> Hahahaha. Do people actually believe that anybody of Goldberg's caliber would sign with a company that pushes a 120 lb nerd in the main event scene? AEW fans are delusional.


AEW isn´t desperate enough to pay a million dollar per minute for a small temporary ratings bump.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

TheDraw said:


> Hahahaha. Do people actually believe that anybody of Goldberg's caliber would sign with a company that pushes a 120 lb nerd in the main event scene? AEW fans are delusional.


Yeah. Lol. He did it last year with Adam Coles company.


----------



## Prosper

TheDraw said:


> Hahahaha. Do people actually believe that anybody of Goldberg's caliber would sign with a company that pushes a 120 lb nerd in the main event scene? AEW fans are delusional.


Its more like AEW doesn’t need to sign Goldberg at his ridiculous price tag because they don’t need him, especially when he doesn’t help anything in WWE. He’s over 50 and almost killed The Undertaker multiple times in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

There's a changing of the tide and if you don't see it your delusional right now.

For a non-special AEW show, the discrepancy in viewers was near 250K, they just beat RAW in a key demo, the 18-49 demo is shockingly close between Dynamite and RAW. I saw people over and over say that AEW would fall off after the specials were done, no, they went CONSIDERABLY up, while NXT fucking fell of a cliff. These are literal facts.

You can make the argument it's the same 1.4 million people every week, but what happens when AEW takes away more and more of NXT's audience? What happens if it's 1 million on AEW and 400k on NXT? Something to think about.

I fully expect the brand split to be completely abolished soon, as in Smackdown guys going to RAW and NXT and the other way around. That'll help in the short term, but as we saw with Great American Bash, nothing that will be sustainable.


----------



## ElTerrible

AEW has found a brilliant show opening concept with the TNT challenge, that imho is a ratings booster. Cody and Moxley are their biggest draws. They put one of them to open the show against an opponent, who is a mystery for most viewers, but at the same has a small following via the internet/indy wrestling community. A triple draw (Cody, mystery, indy/internet "star") so to speak. Given that we hardly talk earth-shattering overall vierwership numbers that alone can move the needle by 5-10% each week. Of course you still need to deliver for the rest of the show, but it gets viewers hooked. I expect this to continue until a real star steps in like Rusev or maybe MJF under a mask.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Hour 1 of Smackdown did a .2 in 18-34, AEW did a .18


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> There's a changing of the tide and if you don't see it your delusional right now.
> 
> For a non-special AEW show, the discrepancy in viewers was near 250K, they just beat RAW in a key demo, the 18-49 demo is shockingly close between Dynamite and RAW. I saw people over and over say that AEW would fall off after the specials were done, no, they went CONSIDERABLY up, while NXT fucking fell of a cliff. These are literal facts.
> 
> You can make the argument it's the same 1.4 million people every week, but what happens when AEW takes away more and more of NXT's audience? What happens if it's 1 million on AEW and 400k on NXT? Something to think about.
> 
> I fully expect the brand split to be completely abolished soon, as in Smackdown guys going to RAW and NXT and the other way around. That'll help in the short term, but as we saw with Great American Bash, nothing that will be sustainable.


The thing is that they ended the brand split already when they did the "Wild Card" rule lol and things didn't get better. They got worse. They are putting band-aids on the bigger problem which is that the product is atrocious. Mixing all of the main roster on all 3 shows may help NXT for a little but history has shown that it has done nothing to help RAW and SD. And it's looking like in a couple of weeks, the cable viewership/demo war with NXT will be over, and we will move to AEW vs RAW, then AEW vs SD.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wildcard did help for like a week, but yeah, Wildcard was also paired with some absolutely atrocious booking, so I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that when numbers get that scary, they will actually try to book well, but to be honest, they probably won't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think out of everything happening, WWE hates the narrative that ‘old people and children’ watches WWE and ‘young people‘ watches AEW

wether true or not, that narrative is there - and it is self-fulfilling

the more its heard, the more true it will become


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I still find it hilarious that the guys that had the worst debut quite possibly of all time, and was ridiculed by literally everyone in Butcher and Blade literally just beat the biggest match NXT has ever put on in viewership.

Imagine if Breezango beat Jon Moxley Vs. MJF for the world title on Dynamite? It's unfathomable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I still find it hilarious that the guys that had the worst debut quite possibly of all time, and was ridiculed by literally everyone in Butcher and Blade literally just beat the biggest match NXT has ever put on in viewership.
> 
> Imagine if Breezango beat Jon Moxley Vs. MJF for the world title on Dynamite? It's unfathomable.


add to that - Butch is becoming an online sensation

people are memeing him to death - everybody loves them


----------



## zkorejo

Good rating for Bucks/Butcher&Blade... I cant stop laughing at Cornette's review of the match. Vince isn't the only out of touch old man.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Courtesy of Wrestlenomics


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zkorejo said:


> Good rating for Bucks/Butcher&Blade... I cant stop laughing at Cornette's review of the match. Vince isn't the only out of touch old man.


Conrny’s fans will always flock to his Pods to find out if they should’ve hated or loved a match

its weak-minded


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Courtesy of Wrestlenomics


strange that MJF lost that portion


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> strange that MJF lost that portion


Squashes<<<


----------



## rbl85

I will wait the numbers of each quarters because i don't really understand how to read this


----------



## zkorejo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Conrny’s fans will always flock to his Pods to find out if they should’ve hated or loved a match
> 
> its weak-minded


He literally said: "They did goofy shit that only appeals to a very small subset of wrestling fans." The ratings say otherwise. The guy has no clue of what works in 2020.


----------



## rexmundi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286755530728329216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286777303368753152


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286870556701102082


----------



## The Wood

ElTerrible said:


> AEW isn´t desperate enough to pay a million dollar per minute for a small temporary ratings bump.


They offered Edge $3 million. And I like Edge, but he never moved like Goldberg.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> There's a changing of the tide and if you don't see it your delusional right now.
> 
> For a non-special AEW show, the discrepancy in viewers was near 250K, they just beat RAW in a key demo, the 18-49 demo is shockingly close between Dynamite and RAW. I saw people over and over say that AEW would fall off after the specials were done, no, they went CONSIDERABLY up, while NXT fucking fell of a cliff. These are literal facts.
> 
> You can make the argument it's the same 1.4 million people every week, but what happens when AEW takes away more and more of NXT's audience? What happens if it's 1 million on AEW and 400k on NXT? Something to think about.
> 
> I fully expect the brand split to be completely abolished soon, as in Smackdown guys going to RAW and NXT and the other way around. That'll help in the short term, but as we saw with Great American Bash, nothing that will be sustainable.


From a few weeks ago:

There’s a changing of the tide, and if you don’t see it you’re delusional right now. For a non-special NXT show, the discrepancy was nearly 250k viewers. What happens if it’s 1 million on NXT and 400k on AEW? Something to think about.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Conrny’s fans will always flock to his Pods to find out if they should’ve hated or loved a match
> 
> its weak-minded


In my experience, people who use the expression “weak-minded” as much as you are doing a lot of huffing and puffing. You seem very self-conscious about it.

Most people who listen to Cornette have their own sensibilities and have responded to the product before they have listened to him. His podcast drops after Dynamite does. They like Cornette because he talks sense, not because they want to make what he says make sense.



rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286755530728329216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286777303368753152


Look at Dave just working a gimmick!

This is a bad take and it was actually pre-empted by Cornette’s podcast this week:

- These ratings aren’t that impressive. No, not even by modern standards. Why modern? Because we have wrestling to compare it to. Raw and SmackDown continuously smoke AEW. AEW is, at best, hour six and seven of priority wrestling in the US every week. Often it is below that. It is watched live on cable by less than 1 million people and have lost about half their viewers.

- Besides 1 million people “spiking” not being impressive, it also raises the question why they didn’t stick around. Is it because they tuned in to laugh at the silly wrestling? If it were good, wouldn’t it have hooked them? This is the Vince Russo mentality of ratings. Big = good. It’s better to fall on your ass in private, not on your wedding day.

- Cornette talked about educating your audience this week. AEW’s audience has been conditioned to see The Young Bucks as stars and comedy wrestling as valid. That has a ceiling, but of course it is going to bring the small amount of AEW fans that are there along.

- Meltzer’s literal take on ratings is actually insane. They don’t work the way Meltzer asserts they work.

- Citation needed for expectations AGAIN. He just says this shit. _I_ expected AEW to do better than NXT out the gate, and I was already down on them. There are records of it here. Who said that? Give us names, Dave. Oh, he won’t because it’ll upset the spin? Cool.

The only downside to Cornette shredding Dave this week (which will be good for Dave’s metrics, I’m sure), is that it has basically already been covered. But maybe it will be fun?

And, by the way, if NXT and AEW were on different nights, NXT would get more out of it. No one is prioritising NXT over AEW right now. Anyone who likes both is watching AEW first and NXT on delay. The people watching NXT, by and large, aren’t likely to be interested in AEW. I’d say the cap on AEW is their 600k and the 300k floaters. NXT would have their 600k, 300k floaters and some of AEW’s 600k.


----------



## Pippen94

ElTerrible said:


> AEW has found a brilliant show opening concept with the TNT challenge, that imho is a ratings booster. Cody and Moxley are their biggest draws. They put one of them to open the show against an opponent, who is a mystery for most viewers, but at the same has a small following via the internet/indy wrestling community. A triple draw (Cody, mystery, indy/internet "star") so to speak. Given that we hardly talk earth-shattering overall vierwership numbers that alone can move the needle by 5-10% each week. Of course you still need to deliver for the rest of the show, but it gets viewers hooked. I expect this to continue until a real star steps in like Rusev or maybe MJF under a mask.


Like idea of wrestler under mask winning TNT title.


----------



## DaSlacker

If WWE really thought AEW were heading for 450,000 viewers back in October....Man are they out of touch. AEW Dynamite was always looking at 1.5 million viewers (they were a little shy of my prediction).


----------



## Not Lying

DaSlacker said:


> If WWE really thought AEW were heading for 450,000 viewers back in October....Man are they out of touch. AEW Dynamite was always looking at 1.5 million viewers (they were a little shy of my prediction).


To be fair even Meltzer and others were saying they would be drawing around 400k actually, so they have exceeded expectations. The only people who predicted 1m-1.5m numbers were over-eager online fans.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Smackdown's peak demo this year was a .80, Raw was a .84, NXT's was a .25, AEW was a .38

All of those numbers were pre pandemic, fast forward to now, 

Smackdown just pulled a .5 this week and a .45 last week. So they are *-40%*

RAW just pulled a .46 this week, and a .48 last week. So they are -*45%*

NXT just pulled a .17 this week, .14 last week. So they are *-35%*

AEW pulled a .32 this week, .29 last week. So they are -*19%*

I feel like those numbers should tell you something, but maybe I'm crazy, things change week to week, but this is a stat I'm going to continue to monitor.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Conrny’s fans will always flock to his Pods to find out if they should’ve hated or loved a match
> 
> its weak-minded


But most of us on here give our opinions in the live thread or soon after before his podcast comes out so this is just not true.

I could easily make just as a simplistic argument that people wait on Meltzer's rating before they find out if they should like a match when most of you guys also post your thoughts live or soon after.

See how both are false?

I said in the live thread that B&B have given the Bucks two good matches now because they limit their cartoon style somewhat. I cannot stand the Bucks but I can admit that. Does not matter what Cornette says, but I am still probably going to be entertained by what he has to say too about it. I also know why I liked the match and he hated it. He hated ECW and I loved it.

The Bucks still suck at selling, but if most of their match is good, just like when most of the show is good, I can overlook some of the elements i hate and enjoy it. It is when the majority of the match is slap you in the face insulting that i tend to see every little detail.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> But most of us on here give our opinions in the live thread or soon after before his podcast comes out so this is just not true.
> 
> I could easily make just as a simplistic argument that people wait on Meltzer's rating before they find out if they should like a match when most of you guys also post your thoughts live or soon after.
> 
> See how both are false?
> 
> I said in the live thread that B&B have given the Bucks two good matches now because they limit their cartoon style somewhat. I cannot stand the Bucks but I can admit that. Does not matter what Cornette says, but I am still probably going to be entertained by what he has to say too about it. I also know why I liked the match and he hated it. He hated ECW and I loved it.
> 
> The Bucks still suck at selling, but if most of their match is good, just like when most of the show is good, I can overlook some of the elements i hate and enjoy it. It is when the majority of the match is slap you in the face insulting that i tend to see every little detail.


people do the same with meltzer too

they know who either likes and dislikes and can obviously predict by now what they’ll rip and what they’ll love (as they have both washed their mouth put about it so vehemently)

hell, i can’t stand either and i can predict it - Cody / Warhorse for example / Corny will rip it

that doesn’t make having your likes and dislikes influenced by them isn’t less weak-minded IMO

it is like the trend of people flocking online to get people to agree with them about something / validation of opinion is a powerful thing

now, I don’t mean _*you*_, so don’t get offended - i mean the majority of their fanbases. Kudos for making up your own mind on likes and dislikes - you’ll be one of the few from either Cornette or Meltzer’s fanbases

you can see it from the wilful ignoring about what is happening on the screen with OC / Jericho - vs the dumb hate Cornette spews and his drones regurgitates - it is very far from what is onscreen


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people do the same with meltzer too
> 
> they know who either likes and dislikes and can obviously predict by now what they’ll rip and what they’ll love (as they have both washed their mouth put about it so vehemently)
> 
> hell, i can’t stand either and i can predict it - Cody / Warhorse for example / Corny will rip it
> 
> that doesn’t make having your likes and dislikes influenced by them isn’t less weak-minded IMO
> 
> it is like the trend of people flocking online to get people to agree with them about something / validation of opinion is a powerful thing
> 
> now, I don’t mean _*you*_, so don’t get offended - i mean the majority of their fanbases. Kudos for making up your own mind on likes and dislikes - you’ll be one of the few from either Cornette or Meltzer’s fanbases
> 
> you can see it from the wilful ignoring about what is happening on the screen with OC / Jericho - vs the dumb hate Cornette spews and his drones regurgitates - it is very far from what is onscreen


I just find it too broad a generalization. Sure there are many who do, just like politics. People hate something just because one political party likes it so I get there are a lot of non-indepndent thinkers out there.

I knew Cornette was going to hate the thumbtack spot, but that does not mean anything to me as far as if I liked it.

Maybe you are talking more about Twitter users? Twitter is a cesspool of virtue signalers looking to live in an echo chamber.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I just find it too broad a generalization. Sure there are many who do, just like politics. People hate something just because one political party likes it so I get there are a lot of non-indepndent thinkers out there.
> 
> I knew Cornette was going to hate the thumbtack spot, but that does not mean anything to me as far as if I liked it.
> 
> Maybe you are talking more about Twitter users? Twitter is a cesspool of virtue signalers looking to live in an echo chamber.


yeah, mostly twitter

but i see it here too

there is definite correlations IMO

cornette or meltzer say boo on a match or wrestler and the sheep say baah

the only time i find value in either’s opinion is meltzer to a degree knows shit about stats and cornette knows a lot about oldschool stuff

ehh... maybe i’m too harsh 🤷‍♂️


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, mostly twitter
> 
> but i see it here too
> 
> there is definite correlations IMO
> 
> cornette or meltzer say boo on a match or wrestler and the sheep say baah
> 
> the only time i find value in either’s opinion is meltzer to a degree knows shit about stats and cornette knows a lot about oldschool stuff
> 
> ehh... maybe i’m too harsh 🤷‍♂️


I like Cornette because he can go very deep into the reasons why he thinks certain things work and why certain things get you short term success but hurt you long term (hotshotting). I think his over the top profanity laced style turns a lot of people off or they actually take him literally too much.

For Meltzer, he comes across very condescending a lot of the times. I also find him amazingly inconsistent in saying things about how if it was the right thing for the audience that makes it good, then gives Hogan vs Andre negative stars. It just makes him unserious to me and pandering to a certain crowd.

I contrast that to Cornette who believes what he believes and screw how many people agree with him. So I guess I respect that position more.

They are definitely both good wrestling historians which is why they got along for so many decades.

It is true there are too many drones out there who want to belong to whatever club and dunk on the competition. There is a lot of that in the ratings threads too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I like Cornette because he can go very deep into the reasons why he thinks certain things work and why certain things get you short term success but hurt you long term (hotshotting). I think his over the top profanity laced style turns a lot of people off or they actually take him literally too much.
> 
> For Meltzer, he comes across very condescending a lot of the times. I also find him amazingly inconsistent in saying things about how if it was the right thing for the audience that makes it good, then gives Hogan vs Andre negative stars. It just makes him unserious to me and pandering to a certain crowd.
> 
> I contrast that to Cornette who believes what he believes and screw how many people agree with him. So I guess I respect that position more.
> 
> They are definitely both good wrestling historians which is why they got along for so many decades.
> 
> It is true there are too many drones out there who want to belong to whatever club and dunk on the competition. There is a lot of that in the ratings threads too.


eh, personally they are two sides of the same coin to me

they know their audience and they clickbait enough to get them to view more - they are both excellent ‘workers’

but guess it doesn’t matter in the long run. No matter how much Corny breaks down elements of AEW or Dave talks it up - the public will do what they will. Neither’s sphere of influence is that great

so, no harm no foul in the end i suspect


----------



## DaSlacker

The Definition of Technician said:


> To be fair even Meltzer and others were saying they would be drawing around 400k actually, so they have exceeded expectations. The only people who predicted 1m-1.5m numbers were over-eager online fans.


Maybe it was over eagerness. But last summer you could just feel how much goodwill with fans that WWE had lost via Saudi, pushing part timers and a godawful run of bad television. 2019 really was the nadir for them, critically speaking. The I looked at what a depleted TNA was doing on Spike TV back in late 2014 (1 million viewers). Throw in AEW's budget, Jericho and Moxley and a few other recognizable faces, the expectation of a big debut. NXT pulling 1 million wrestling viewers to a Wednesday two weeks before Dynamite went live.

Meltzer underestimated.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> If WWE really thought AEW were heading for 450,000 viewers back in October....Man are they out of touch. AEW Dynamite was always looking at 1.5 million viewers (they were a little shy of my prediction).


They didn’t. Meltzer reports things out of context to support a narrative. He’ll take hyperbole literally (like he does ratings) and he also _has_ to report on sour grapes, really. So much of wrestling is hearsay.

For example, who said NXT is going to crush AEW? Was it Triple H? Or was it Adam Cole talking shit with his mates? Did it come from the AEW side? For example, Meltzer _reported_ (not his opinion) that Vince McMahon was going to get more involved with NXT. That obviously didn’t come from WWE, because it didn’t happen.

You have to be very careful with Meltzer. And I don’t think it’s because he’s a bad person, and he has to report on what his screwed up sources tell him, but he’s also got a newsletter to sell. The one way Meltzer is not out of touch himself is that he’s realised that there are way fewer fans than they have ever been, but they are marks for being monetised per head. Spew the AEW love and charge $5.99 a month or whatever.

And that’s why he’s gone over Corny. It’s self-promotion. Cornette actually recently stated that he deliberately hasn’t gone after Dave too hard, but did curse him in public. Cornette _still_ goes out of his way to defend his news, but has said he spoke to him privately about this nonsense. Meltzer is making it public because he wants the fight for attention and to try and monetise the fans who automatically say “Cornette yells at clouds” not understanding they are Shelbyville with their turnip juice. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> To be fair even Meltzer and others were saying they would be drawing around 400k actually, so they have exceeded expectations. The only people who predicted 1m-1.5m numbers were over-eager online fans.


Can you provide a source for this? I was very eager on AEW and soaking up everything I could and never saw this. I’d like to be able to put itninto


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Conrny’s fans will always flock to his Pods to find out if they should’ve hated or loved a match
> 
> its weak-minded


I literally don't know any Cornette fans who do this. Imagine waiting 2 days for the Cornette podcast to come out only to regurgitate Cornette's view on things.

I think you're off base here. You have a group that believe wrestling should be more traditional lead by Cornette then you have people in the middle (Such as myself, Wood, Lheurch etc) who like to hear his views on things and do disagree at times and then you have the people on the opposite side who think he's an out of touch old man.


----------



## rexmundi

I found these numbers which are the quarter hour total viewers and 18-49 viewers for AEW and NXT.











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287085052124368896









The Bucks had the highest quarter in both total viewers and demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *I literally don't know any Cornette fans who do this*. Imagine waiting 2 days for the Cornette podcast to come out only to regurgitate Cornette's view on things.
> 
> I think you're off base here. You have a group that believe wrestling should be more traditional lead by Cornette then you have people in the middle (Such as myself, Wood, Lheurch etc) who like to hear his views on things and do disagree at times and then you have the people on the opposite side who think he's an out of touch old man.


spin a cat and you’ll hit at least two

spot them a mile away, the usually use all his buzzwords - as soon as you hear ‘outlaw mudshow’ you would’ve found your guy

what the faq is an outlaw mudshow anyway? What does it mean?

ps> objectively you cannot group yourself, woods and leurch - i don’t think your opinions appear that homogeneous/ there is more a scale there too


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> spin a cat and you’ll hit at least two
> 
> spot them a mile away, the usually use all his buzzwords - as soon as you hear ‘outlaw mudshow’ you would’ve found your guy
> 
> what the faq is an outlaw mudshow anyway? What does it mean?
> 
> ps> objectively you cannot group yourself, woods and leurch - i don’t think your opinions appear that homogeneous/ there is more a scale there too


If you don't know what an outlaw mud-show is, then you should probably listen to more Jim Cornette. That sort of education is important.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> If you don't know what an outlaw mud-show is, then you should probably listen to more Jim Cornette. That sort of education is important.


yyyeah, no thanks

mind explaining in your own words?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yyyeah, no thanks
> 
> mind explaining in your own words?


An outlaw show back in the day was a non NWA affiliated territory. They were viewed as being promotions not good enough to join the NWA or created by wrestlers who were not good enough to compete in the NWA.

Mud show means exactly what it says. A dirty shit show.

Combine them together it pretty much means a non major promotion with shitty talent and shit shows. I bought an Outlaw Mud Show T-Shirt that I ironically wear to good wrestling shows #geeklife


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yyyeah, no thanks
> 
> mind explaining in your own words?


Your wilful ignorance shouldn't really be rewarded. I mean, how can you trash a guy who clearly has so much you need to learn? 

The term is pretty self-explanatory. It's not a dig at you so much as just a general dig at modern wrestling audiences. Wrestling is just so far away from...wrestling. It's gross, haha.

When a group would run opposite an established territory it was called an "outlaw" promotion. Wrestling often used to be governed by authentic sports commissions, and running outlaw shows was actually, in many cases, illegal. So the term is kind of artistic imagery, but also kind of literal. The most iconic outlaw promotion was probably ICW run by Angelo Poffo, which is where Randy Savage started. The term "mud-show" is quite literal, because often these shows would be held outdoors, no matter the weather, and if it had been raining, mud would often get in or around the ring.

So an outlaw mud-show is just a wrestling "operation" that shouldn't be happening and isn't up to standard. The people running it aren't the people who should be running wrestling in that town, and it's messy as shit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> An outlaw show back in the day was a non NWA affiliated territory. They were viewed as being promotions not good enough to join the NWA or created by wrestlers who were not good enough to compete in the NWA.
> 
> Mud show means exactly what it says. A dirty shit show.
> 
> Combine them together it pretty much means a non major promotion with shitty talent and shit shows. I bought an Outlaw Mud Show T-Shirt that I ironically wear to good wrestling shows #geeklife


ah, ok - makes sense

especially the non-affiliated part being seen as ‘not on the level’

thanks for the explantation

kinda ironic that AEW is the level these days when you think about it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Your wilful ignorance shouldn't really be rewarded. I mean, how can you trash a guy who clearly has so much you need to learn?
> 
> The term is pretty self-explanatory. It's not a dig at you so much as just a general dig at modern wrestling audiences. Wrestling is just so far away from...wrestling. It's gross, haha.
> 
> When a group would run opposite an established territory it was called an "outlaw" promotion. Wrestling often used to be governed by authentic sports commissions, and running outlaw shows was actually, in many cases, illegal. So the term is kind of artistic imagery, but also kind of literal. The most iconic outlaw promotion was probably ICW run by Angelo Poffo, which is where Randy Savage started. The term "mud-show" is quite literal, because often these shows would be held outdoors, no matter the weather, and if it had been raining, mud would often get in or around the ring.
> 
> So an outlaw mud-show is just a wrestling "operation" that shouldn't be happening and isn't up to standard. The people running it aren't the people who should be running wrestling in that town, and it's messy as shit.


thanks - except for your needlessly condescending intro that was a good explanation

makes sense


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks - except for your needlessly condescending intro that was a good explanation
> 
> makes sense


I didn’t mean it to sound condescending (although I knew it would come off that way). It’s just that there’s so much people could learn. They’d rather talk (not speaking about you, I mean the general “they”) than listen.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> An outlaw show back in the day was a non NWA affiliated territory. They were viewed as being promotions not good enough to join the NWA or created by wrestlers who were not good enough to compete in the NWA.
> 
> Mud show means exactly what it says. A dirty shit show.
> 
> Combine them together it pretty much means a non major promotion with shitty talent and shit shows. I bought an Outlaw Mud Show T-Shirt that I ironically wear to good wrestling shows #geeklife


Was awa an outlaw territory? It wasn't affiliated with nwa


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Was awa an outlaw territory? It wasn't affiliated with nwa


You are being needlessly difficult.


----------



## Dizzie

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, mostly twitter
> 
> but i see it here too
> 
> there is definite correlations IMO
> 
> cornette or meltzer say boo on a match or wrestler and the sheep say baah
> 
> the only time i find value in either’s opinion is meltzer to a degree knows shit about stats and cornette knows a lot about oldschool stuff
> 
> ehh... maybe i’m too harsh 🤷‍♂️


I'm not a big fan of either but like yourself I would take meltzer's opinion over cornette as meltzer doesnt make it personal or unnecessarily belittle wrestler as a human being when reviewing shows/matches.

Whilst I am not a fan of Marko stunt wrestling in aew I can remember seeing of tweet of his a few weeks back that had nothing to with aew or wrestling in general and there was a standout reply calling him stunted growth and needlessly personally attacking the guy and low and behold he was a fan of cornette's and there lies a big issue with cornette, he puts a hell of a lot of spiteful hate out there in the world and quite a good amount of his flock of fans will follow his lead and spread the same spiteful hate.


----------



## The Wood

That's where his gimmick name comes from, surely...

Wrestling is largely trash talk. If you can't handle it, get out of the business (which Marko shouldn't have been in anyway).


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> That's where his gimmick name comes from, surely...
> 
> Wrestling is largely trash talk. If you can't handle it, get out of the business (which Marko shouldn't have been in anyway).


No surprise that a jim cornette fan thinks it's fine to personally abuse wrestlers on social media, class act.


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> No surprise that a jim cornette fan thinks it's fine to personally abuse wrestlers on social media, class act.


Does your passive aggressiveness count as abuse?


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> Does your passive aggressiveness count as abuse?


Take it however you want


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> I'm not a big fan of either but like yourself I would take meltzer's opinion over cornette as meltzer doesnt make it personal or unnecessarily belittle wrestler as a human being when reviewing shows/matches.
> 
> Whilst I am not a fan of Marko stunt wrestling in aew I can remember seeing of tweet of his a few weeks back that had nothing to with aew or wrestling in general and there was a standout reply calling him stunted growth and needlessly personally attacking the guy and low and behold he was a fan of cornette's and there lies a big issue with cornette, he puts a hell of a lot of spiteful hate out there in the world and quite a good amount of his flock of fans will follow his lead and spread the same spiteful hate.


yep - this is the gist of it

as a primarily positive person, i can‘t abide the namecalling above everything else

the world needs less of that. I mean, we just lost Kimura about this not long ago


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> That's where his gimmick name comes from, surely...
> 
> Wrestling is largely trash talk. If you can't handle it, get out of the business (which Marko shouldn't have been in anyway).


it is largely trash talk between wrestlers - which is a work

and Marko can handle it, therefore is in the business

but the fans aren’t in the business / which makes it silly


----------



## Danielallen1410

Starting to feel sorry for the Wood tbh. Clearly has some issues.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bought an Outlaw Mud Show T-Shirt that I ironically wear to good wrestling shows #geeklife


This is awesome lol. Love it.


----------



## One Shed

As far as people responding to people on Twitter, calling them names, etc, I honestly hate all that. I hate how much of a toxic wasteland Twitter is. It is not something I would ever feel the need to do.

I believe there is a clear distinction between calling someone like Marko horrible and an embarrassment to professional wrestling on a topical forum or at worst posting it on your own Twitter account. What I do not agree with is targeting someone personally, trolling under THEIR account. And so many do that for everyone. Every time Hulk Hogan posts, you have hundreds of people ready to copy and paste their line to remind him of his words from years ago. Even someone almost universally beloved can post a tweet saying "hi" and you will have dozens of trolls just saying horrible things. It is just horrible on so many levels.

I see Cornette responding to people tagging him on Twitter first, but I rarely see him initiating it. That is the difference because no one can force you to listen to a podcast, but tagging someone on Twitter kind of forces yourself on them in a way. The onus is on the person to take action to block the troll. That seems a bit unfair.


----------



## The Wood

Lheurch said:


> As far as people responding to people on Twitter, calling them names, etc, I honestly hate all that. I hate how much of a toxic wasteland Twitter is. It is not something I would ever feel the need to do.
> 
> I believe there is a clear distinction between calling someone like Marko horrible and an embarrassment to professional wrestling on a topical forum or at worst posting it on your own Twitter account. What I do not agree with is targeting someone personally, trolling under THEIR account. And so many do that for everyone. Every time Hulk Hogan posts, you have hundreds of people ready to copy and paste their line to remind him of his words from years ago. Even someone almost universally beloved can post a tweet saying "hi" and you will have dozens of trolls just saying horrible things. It is just horrible on so many levels.
> 
> I see Cornette responding to people tagging him on Twitter first, but I rarely see him initiating it. That is the difference because no one can force you to listen to a podcast, but tagging someone on Twitter kind of forces yourself on them in a way. The onus is on the person to take action to block the troll. That seems a bit unfair.


Phenomenal post. I‘ve been on forums where name-calling is okay, even encouraged. It just depends on the culture, honestly. I have zero care factor for it, but try not to force it on anyone that doesn’t want it/can’t handle it. This is a place where people seem to not want it or can’t handle it (well, they’re happy to dish it out but don’t want to take it).

I think the people being preachy about it are, frankly, being arrogant. Nothing more ironic than someone saying insulting someone for being insulting.

I personally don’t post on Twitter, and I don’t endorse fans going after wrestlers like that. There are just better ways to go about it. Let Marko Stunt know _why_ he’s a scourge on wrestling, there are plenty of good reasons. And Cornette lets people know them.

Cornette cops it worse than anyone he talks about, but as he says he “drinks their tears.”


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and he was digging the vibe of the show. 

First person that stood out to him was Orange Cassidy and his literal message was "Holy fuck this is some anime shit", I showed him Mox's debut because he loved Jim Ross as a commentator, and he enjoyed that, and I showed him the MJF promo from Fyter Fest 2019 and he loved the phrase "Pencil Neck Geeks". Oh also showed him Archer killing some geeks and he thought that was hilarious.

He signed up for a free trial of Sling and we're watching the show together on Wednesday, hopefully they put on a good show. He's 24 so this is literally the exact type of fan AEW wants to win over.


----------



## Mike E

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and he was digging the vibe of the show.
> 
> First person that stood out to him was Orange Cassidy and his literal message was "Holy fuck this is some anime shit", I showed him Mox's debut because he loved Jim Ross as a commentator, and he enjoyed that, and I showed him the MJF promo from Fyter Fest 2019 and he loved the phrase "Pencil Neck Geeks". Oh also showed him Archer killing some geeks and he thought that was hilarious.
> 
> He signed up for a free trial of Sling and we're watching the show together on Wednesday, hopefully they put on a good show. He's 24 so this is literally the exact type of fan AEW wants to win over.


I am also hoping that they continue to put on good shows. It would be a disaster not to take advantage of the buzz they've garnered over the last couple weeks.


----------



## Prosper

Mike E said:


> I am also hoping that they continue to put on good shows. It would be a disaster not to take advantage of the buzz they've garnered over the last couple weeks.


There’s no way they don’t keep the momentum alive at this point, especially with All Out coming up and the overall cable viewers taking those 2 big back to back jumps. Starting to feel like it’s no holds barred with their content now. They literally had a thumb tack spot on Dynamite lol that’s rare these days. I can’t wait for this weeks show. Another stacked card.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Was awa an outlaw territory? It wasn't affiliated with nwa


The AWA was originally a member of the NWA until the early 1960's if I recall correctly. I doubt the NWA considered the AWA an outlaw territory because the AWA was obviously good enough to be a member of the NWA but simply chose not to be. Much like the WWF wasn't an outlaw territory once they left in 1983.

The promoters at the time very well may have thought that way though and I could be wrong. It's a good question for a guy like Cornette actually.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and he was digging the vibe of the show.
> 
> First person that stood out to him was Orange Cassidy and his literal message was "Holy fuck this is some anime shit", I showed him Mox's debut because he loved Jim Ross as a commentator, and he enjoyed that, and I showed him the MJF promo from Fyter Fest 2019 and he loved the phrase "Pencil Neck Geeks". Oh also showed him Archer killing some geeks and he thought that was hilarious.
> 
> He signed up for a free trial of Sling and we're watching the show together on Wednesday, hopefully they put on a good show. He's 24 so this is literally the exact type of fan AEW wants to win over.


OC is fascinating to the casuals

watch his popularity skyrocket


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW pop their best ratings in weeks with a serious approach show

AEW loyalists: "Can't wait until OC comes back, he is fascinating to casuals. Watch his popularity skyrocket!"


----------



## Mike E

To be fair alot of people do like Orange Cassidy. Most of my friends that have started watching AEW like him because he sticks out from everyone else. Also without him it would be a tough sell to get my wife to watch with me since he is currently her favorite wrestler. You can tell his popularity by how many viewers his YouTube clips get.


----------



## The Wood

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and he was digging the vibe of the show.
> 
> First person that stood out to him was Orange Cassidy and his literal message was "Holy fuck this is some anime shit", I showed him Mox's debut because he loved Jim Ross as a commentator, and he enjoyed that, and I showed him the MJF promo from Fyter Fest 2019 and he loved the phrase "Pencil Neck Geeks". Oh also showed him Archer killing some geeks and he thought that was hilarious.
> 
> He signed up for a free trial of Sling and we're watching the show together on Wednesday, hopefully they put on a good show. He's 24 so this is literally the exact type of fan AEW wants to win over.


That's funny -- I showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and she hated the vibe of the show. 

When she first saw Orange Cassidy, she said "Why the fuck did such a skinny guy get that job?" I told her that people say that when he tries he gets really good, and she said "Why doesn't he try from the start?" She even likes anime. Obsessed with Death Note and Fullmetal Alchemist and watched plenty growing up. Tried to make me watch One Piece when it recently came onto Netflix. I showed her Archer killing some geeks and she thought it was weird that people watch little people getting hurt in 2020, and she again asked why it would be allowed to happen -- "why would these people have jobs there?"

Her brothers used to watch wrestling and she actually has some pretty fond memories of the Attitude era. Humorously, she's always hated Triple H and she couldn't watch with her brothers when he became "the main guy" after Rock and Austin left. She actually really liked Chris Jericho back in the day. Saw him on AEW and thought "Wow, he's really let himself go! Why is he still doing this? Can't he do movies or something?" 

She likes MJF, but thinks he could be hotter. "He's a hot guy character who isn't that hot." Wondered why they don't have any big wrestlers when they are apparently owned by a billionaire. She asked me why they wouldn't get some of the football players to wrestle, especially when I told her the Jaguars suck. Some other memorable quotes (not verbatim, although I've got a really good memory): 

"They don't make wrestlers like they used to." 

"There are like ten hotter guys at the gym every time I go."

"That is a fucking hideous tattoo. Is he really married to that woman? Why would she let him do that? (laughs) That's got to be fake. Their marriage, not the tattoo."

"Remember Kevin Nash. He had great hair. I think he still did in Magic Mike. They could really use wrestlers with great hair." (came about because she hates Jericho's hair and basically everyone else in AEW has "awful hair")

"Are these guys comedian wrestlers?" (referring to The Young Bucks -- she doesn't get them _at all_)

"He's pretty hot and his man-bun is annoying...in a good way!" (referring to Wardlow)

"Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? Wouldn't that make it hard to see?" (referring to Luchasaurus -- she _really_ hated him for some reason)

"Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? (mocking voice) If you take it off you might be able to read your notes, fuck pickle" (referring to Excalibur -- "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask?" has become an inside joke when someone is having trouble doing the simplest of tasks or when we see someone wearing a mask out and about because of the 'rona)

"This is setting back feminism about forty years" (during a women's match, and I can't remember who was in it, but I've got a feeling one of the women was Britt Baker)

"Chris Jericho should do a comedy movie where he plays a rock star dad whose kids are embarrassed by him. They can call it The School of Schlock." 

Other wrestlers she really enjoys are Batista and Daniel Bryan. Thinks Batista has "Dilfy sex appeal" and Bryan seems like a "cool guy." And the aforementioned Kevin Nash, who she calls "Pantene Protein." But her favourite wrestlers of all-time, just from the limited wrestling she sees on a lark, are actually, get this -- Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi. She saw some All Japan with her brothers and makes jokes about how she drives a "Misawa" and gives a wink, because she considers him a sexy Japanese business dad as a joke. She will also randomly yell "Kobashi!" and start miming chopping people's throats when she's either drunk or bored. Other wrestlers she hates are Dolph Ziggler ("biggest try-hard in the whole fucking world") and Sable ("her voice dries me up"). She kind of likes Randy Orton, but she feels that he would fall asleep in the middle of fucking her and leave her hanging. She will mime giving people an RKO out of nowhere though. She's 27 though and has a general appreciation and memories of wrestling without being anywhere near a regular or hardcore fan (although with some bizarre arcane knowledge due to her brothers and me showing her random shit over the years). 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone can play that game. It's called "anecdotal evidence."


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The gym conversation is an interesting one. I don't go to the gym but for those who do or even the casual wrestling viewer who tunes into AEW I'm sure there is at least 10 guys in most gyms bigger than most of the AEW roster.

This is why it's so important to have people on who look larger than life and if they're not they have to wrestle a style that is believable. It was cool seeing The Bucks do some wild shit the other night on TV but Butcher and Blade looked horrible throughout because The Bucks weren't fighting from underneath with everything they had to try and get the victory but instead had a back and forth match. 

Admittedly my Mrs isn't game enough to watch an entire wrestling show with me but I did show her the Cassidy/Jericho brawl from about 3-4 weeks ago and she wasn't keen on it at all. She's seen Marko as well and asked if he was a child.


----------



## The Wood

I go out of my way to avoid Marko, so every time I see him it is jarring just how young he looks. Like, I age him in my head when I'm not looking at him or something. It makes his masochism a lot less enjoyable, honestly. It's disturbing, but not in a good way to get heat. It's just creepy and bad, haha.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW pop their best ratings in weeks with a serious approach show
> 
> AEW loyalists: "Can't wait until OC comes back, he is fascinating to casuals. Watch his popularity skyrocket!"


OC detractors: all he does is comedy, pockets is a scourge to the business  (He did make an appearance at the end too)

besides, wed‘s show wasn’t that serious - it was just action packed / big difference


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> *That's funny -- I showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and she hated the vibe of the show.
> 
> When she first saw Orange Cassidy, she said "Why the fuck did such a skinny guy get that job?" *I told her that people say that when he tries he gets really good, and she said "Why doesn't he try from the start?" She even likes anime. Obsessed with Death Note and Fullmetal Alchemist and watched plenty growing up. Tried to make me watch One Piece when it recently came onto Netflix. I showed her Archer killing some geeks and she thought it was weird that people watch little people getting hurt in 2020, and she again asked why it would be allowed to happen -- "why would these people have jobs there?"
> 
> Her brothers used to watch wrestling and she actually has some pretty fond memories of the Attitude era. Humorously, she's always hated Triple H and she couldn't watch with her brothers when he became "the main guy" after Rock and Austin left. She actually really liked Chris Jericho back in the day. Saw him on AEW and thought "Wow, he's really let himself go! Why is he still doing this? Can't he do movies or something?"
> 
> She likes MJF, but thinks he could be hotter. "He's a hot guy character who isn't that hot." Wondered why they don't have any big wrestlers when they are apparently owned by a billionaire. She asked me why they wouldn't get some of the football players to wrestle, especially when I told her the Jaguars suck. Some other memorable quotes (not verbatim, although I've got a really good memory):
> 
> "They don't make wrestlers like they used to."
> 
> "There are like ten hotter guys at the gym every time I go."
> 
> "That is a fucking hideous tattoo. Is he really married to that woman? Why would she let him do that? (laughs) That's got to be fake. Their marriage, not the tattoo."
> 
> "Remember Kevin Nash. He had great hair. I think he still did in Magic Mike. They could really use wrestlers with great hair." (came about because she hates Jericho's hair and basically everyone else in AEW has "awful hair")
> 
> "Are these guys comedian wrestlers?" (referring to The Young Bucks -- she doesn't get them _at all_)
> 
> "He's pretty hot and his man-bun is annoying...in a good way!" (referring to Wardlow)
> 
> "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? Wouldn't that make it hard to see?" (referring to Luchasaurus -- she _really_ hated him for some reason)
> 
> "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? (mocking voice) If you take it off you might be able to read your notes, fuck pickle" (referring to Excalibur -- "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask?" has become an inside joke when someone is having trouble doing the simplest of tasks or when we see someone wearing a mask out and about because of the 'rona)
> 
> "This is setting back feminism about forty years" (during a women's match, and I can't remember who was in it, but I've got a feeling one of the women was Britt Baker)
> 
> "Chris Jericho should do a comedy movie where he plays a rock star dad whose kids are embarrassed by him. They can call it The School of Schlock."
> 
> Other wrestlers she really enjoys are Batista and Daniel Bryan. Thinks Batista has "Dilfy sex appeal" and Bryan seems like a "cool guy." And the aforementioned Kevin Nash, who she calls "Pantene Protein." But her favourite wrestlers of all-time, just from the limited wrestling she sees on a lark, are actually, get this -- Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi. She saw some All Japan with her brothers and makes jokes about how she drives a "Misawa" and gives a wink, because she considers him a sexy Japanese business dad as a joke. She will also randomly yell "Kobashi!" and start miming chopping people's throats when she's either drunk or bored. Other wrestlers she hates are Dolph Ziggler ("biggest try-hard in the whole fucking world") and Sable ("her voice dries me up"). She kind of likes Randy Orton, but she feels that he would fall asleep in the middle of fucking her and leave her hanging. She will mime giving people an RKO out of nowhere though. She's 27 though and has a general appreciation and memories of wrestling without being anywhere near a regular or hardcore fan (although with some bizarre arcane knowledge due to her brothers and me showing her random shit over the years).
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Anyone can play that game. It's called "anecdotal evidence."


I’ll take ‘stuff that never happened‘ for 200 Alex


----------



## RapShepard

Tbh the issue with the watched with friends thing is feel like for the most part you're friends are going to vibe off you when you introduce them to things. If you're super into the show explaining why so and so is awesome they probably catch that vibe. Conversely if you're telling them why so and so is shit they probably catch that vibe as well. Because after all you're the one introducing it. 

On my own personal anecdotal evidence I know when I first tried to get into the anime Naruto as a teen I didn't get it. But as an adult kicking it with my friends smoking, drinking, and playing Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 as they explain why such and such character was sweet, that got me interested. Conversely hearing them praise Attack on Titan season 1, but hate Season 2 let me know to steer clear.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Tbh the issue with the watched with friends thing is feel like for the most part you're friends are going to vibe off you when you introduce them to things. If you're super into the show explaining why so and so is awesome they probably catch that vibe. Conversely if you're telling them why so and so is shit they probably catch that vibe as well. Because after all you're the one introducing it.
> 
> On my own personal anecdotal evidence I know when I first tried to get into the anime Naruto as a teen I didn't get it. But as an adult kicking it with my friends smoking, drinking, and playing Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 as they explain why such and such character was sweet, that got me interested. Conversely hearing them praise Attack on Titan season 1, but hate Season 2 let me know to steer clear.


It depends on a lot.

I watched WrestleMania this year with my SO and she also watched an episode of Dynamite with me (I forget which one). Now, she has not watched in a long time. I asked her before WrestleMania started who she knew. She said the usual WWE AE/RA guys like Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Cena, Angle, Jericho, Edge, Orton, and she was a big fan of Rey Mysterio back in the day. She knew who Hulk Hogan was.

Maybe this was because I like to see things from a human psychology perspective but I did not tell her anything about the show beforehand except Edge has been retired due to neck injury and this was his big comeback so she was excited to hear about that. Other than that I would just answer questions she had about a certain guy or what their angle was. I could tell she was a bit tuned out for a lot of it especially with no crowd, but she liked the Undertaker boneyard thing mainly because she had not seen the Undertaker do anything in years so she was excited (and surprised) he still was around. She also likes Asuka a lot.

For AEW she only knew who Jericho was, but that was not surprising given how long it had been since she watched anything. She said the tag matches confused her because they were not following rules. "I thought the bad guys were supposed to break the rules, why are the good guys just coming in and out of the ring whenever?" was a question. It was just one episode and she only knew one person so she did not get invested in it, but that might change if she watched more. She said they did the whole empty arena thing a lot better than WrestleMania did. Of course the best part was when Marko came out she laughed and not in a good way. She said "that kid fights?" and all I could say was "...not really." She laughed and said she could take him which she probably could despite being shorter than he is.

I think that probably goes to show you that you end up being with people you have a lot in common with anyway more than them picking up on your vibes.

For friends, if my friends invited me over to watch assuming I was still on my break after LOLCENAWINS and they showed me last week's episode of Dynamite I would be interested in seeing more. If they showed me an episode with Marko in a match and OC getting in offense on someone like Jericho I would probably question their sanity and why I was friends with them to begin with. Maybe not that extreme but I would ask them what they had been smoking. I would definitely not go along to get along. It might bias me as a first time wrestling watcher if they tinted something as good or bad before I saw it, but not as a lapsed fan.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’ll take ‘stuff that never happened‘ for 200 Alex


Ha - that's what I thought.
Nobody says stuff like that since ufc


----------



## The Wood

Lheurch said:


> It depends on a lot.
> 
> I watched WrestleMania this year with my SO and she also watched an episode of Dynamite with me (I forget which one). Now, she has not watched in a long time. I asked her before WrestleMania started who she knew. She said the usual WWE AE/RA guys like Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Cena, Angle, Jericho, Edge, Orton, and she was a big fan of Rey Mysterio back in the day. She knew who Hulk Hogan was.
> 
> Maybe this was because I like to see things from a human psychology perspective but I did not tell her anything about the show beforehand except Edge has been retired due to neck injury and this was his big comeback so she was excited to hear about that. Other than that I would just answer questions she had about a certain guy or what their angle was. I could tell she was a bit tuned out for a lot of it especially with no crowd, but she liked the Undertaker boneyard thing mainly because she had not seen the Undertaker do anything in years so she was excited (and surprised) he still was around. She also likes Asuka a lot.
> 
> For AEW she only knew who Jericho was, but that was not surprising given how long it had been since she watched anything. She said the tag matches confused her because they were not following rules. "I thought the bad guys were supposed to break the rules, why are the good guys just coming in and out of the ring whenever?" was a question. It was just one episode and she only knew one person so she did not get invested in it, but that might change if she watched more. She said they did the whole empty arena thing a lot better than WrestleMania did. Of course the best part was when Marko came out she laughed and not in a good way. She said "that kid fights?" and all I could say was "...not really." She laughed and said she could take him which she probably could despite being shorter than he is.
> 
> I think that probably goes to show you that you end up being with people you have a lot in common with anyway more than them picking up on your vibes.
> 
> For friends, if my friends invited me over to watch assuming I was still on my break after LOLCENAWINS and they showed me last week's episode of Dynamite I would be interested in seeing more. If they showed me an episode with Marko in a match and OC getting in offense on someone like Jericho I would probably question their sanity and why I was friends with them to begin with. Maybe not that extreme but I would ask them what they had been smoking. I would definitely not go along to get along. It might bias me as a first time wrestling watcher if they tinted something as good or bad before I saw it, but not as a lapsed fan.


There's a lot of truth in this too. I'm not going to spend much time with someone who finds the AEW style of comedy funny. We're just going to clash as I want to watch good TV shows and they're going to want to watch people getting hit in the groin with a football. Sometimes you make concessions and just have different tastes, but it's probably a combination of psychological factors. Some people are going to be more like Rap suggested, with people influencing you, and others are going to want to surround themselves with people they don't mind the tastes of. And that can happen in all sorts of different measures. 

For the record -- when I show someone something, I usually don't try to colour their experience either. I go out of my way to give them a blank slate, because otherwise what is the point in showing them? That's if I want their honest reaction. If someone asks me if a movie is good or not, or whatever, I'm obviously going to give them my honest opinion, but I do find untainted opinions -- well, as close as you can get to them -- interesting. 



RapShepard said:


> Tbh the issue with the watched with friends thing is feel like for the most part you're friends are going to vibe off you when you introduce them to things. If you're super into the show explaining why so and so is awesome they probably catch that vibe. Conversely if you're telling them why so and so is shit they probably catch that vibe as well. Because after all you're the one introducing it.
> 
> On my own personal anecdotal evidence I know when I first tried to get into the anime Naruto as a teen I didn't get it. But as an adult kicking it with my friends smoking, drinking, and playing Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 as they explain why such and such character was sweet, that got me interested. Conversely hearing them praise Attack on Titan season 1, but hate Season 2 let me know to steer clear.


Oh yeah, of course. Well, it depends on your personality. There are some people who are going to be turned off be recommendations too. But what you're saying is exactly why anecdotal evidence isn't really valued, and I was just listing mine to counteract the bullshit assertion (quiet or not) that "AEW is cool because I showed my friend who doesn't even like wrestling and they thought it was cool." Anecdotal evidence is good for an anecdote, but not evidence.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW pop their best ratings in weeks with a serious approach show
> 
> AEW loyalists: "Can't wait until OC comes back, he is fascinating to casuals. Watch his popularity skyrocket!"


The ratings are a reflection of previous weeks. It kept fans engaged. Fight for the Fallen did that.


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> The ratings are a reflection of previous weeks. It kept fans engaged. Fight for the Fallen did that.


I'm proof of this not being entirely true. Wasn't watching at all, was told Kingston was the challenger and started watching and was going to turn it off when something stupid happened. Something stupid occurred in the last few minutes of the show. Fight for the Fallen sucked


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, there are a few factors. If people hear about a good show they might tune in. But then if they hear it’s a wreck they might too. And I seriously think people are underestimating the pity pull with people who want this thing to succeed and heard they were getting their ass kicked. This is the most hardcore audience a wrestling show has had.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yeah, there are a few factors. If people hear about a good show they might tune in. But then if they hear it’s a wreck they might too. And I seriously think people are underestimating the pity pull with people who want this thing to succeed and heard they were getting their ass kicked. This is the most hardcore audience a wrestling show has had.


lol - pity pull

thanks Woods, i thought i heard it all but you have new gems every week 😂 🤣


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - pity pull
> 
> thanks Woods, i thought i heard it all but you have new gems every week 😂 🤣


Explain to me why it’s ridiculous.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Explain to me why it’s ridiculous.


i didn’t say its ridiculous

its the first time i heard it and i thought its funny as a concept


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i didn’t say its ridiculous
> 
> its the first time i heard it and i thought its funny as a concept


It is pretty funny.


----------



## NXT Only

Cult03 said:


> I'm proof of this not being entirely true. Wasn't watching at all, was told Kingston was the challenger and started watching and was going to turn it off when something stupid happened. Something stupid occurred in the last few minutes of the show. Fight for the Fallen sucked


You’re 1 person.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - pity pull
> 
> thanks Woods, i thought i heard it all but you have new gems every week 😂 🤣


Almost a million people watched AEW because they felt sorry for them lmao. That is a good one.


----------



## NXT Only

These dudes will just never give this company any credit.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’ll take ‘stuff that never happened‘ for 200 Alex


I mean, in my case I can post the messages we exchanged, yeah I was hyping up the product because I enjoy it.

I think it's a better indication if you show someone something you like and they dig it too, rather than hate watching something together and shitting on it, because ultimately, what does that really lead too? That person wasn't watching the show in the first place, and they won't continue to watch it.

I agree with Rap, definitely people are going to give off vibes when they like something, but circle back to my last point, nothing changes if you just hate watch something.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I mean, in my case I can post the messages we exchanged, yeah I was hyping up the product because I enjoy it.
> 
> I think it's a better indication if you show someone something you like and they dig it too, rather than hate watching something together and shitting on it, because ultimately, what does that really lead too? That person wasn't watching the show in the first place, and they won't continue to watch it.
> 
> I agree with Rap, definitely people are going to give off vibes when they like something, but circle back to my last point, nothing changes if you just hate watch something.


i wasn’t talking about yours 

i’m sure yours happened - Wood’s essay is supect though


----------



## Dizzie

NXT Only said:


> These dudes will just never give this company any credit.


You mean 1 guy in all honesty, the guy has an unhealthy obsessive hatred for aew that its straight up sad


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Bruh, unless WWE does some crazy angle or main roster invasion on NXT, this is going to be a one sided beat down.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Bruh, unless WWE does some crazy angle or main roster invasion on NXT, this is going to be a one sided beat down.


That’s gonna be fu*kin good lol, he’s gonna rip into Moxley I think


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> That’s gonna be fu*kin good lol, he’s gonna rip into Moxley I think


Yup, he just tweeted "40 Days", All Out is in 40 Days.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Bruh, unless WWE does some crazy angle or main roster invasion on NXT, this is going to be a one sided beat down.











AEW are on a goddamn roll. Next couple of months are going to be unmissable.


----------



## Erik.

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Bruh, unless WWE does some crazy angle or main roster invasion on NXT, this is going to be a one sided beat down.


I love how AEW don't just keep people off TV and then bring them back on with no explanation.

MJF being held off TV, not being in matches or put in the biggest feuds isn't because they don't know what to do with him, it's because it leads to this and his real BIG storyline. And it's the same with Archer, at least Roberts addressed it last week and they didn't just have Archer randomly do shit with no explanation as to where he's been.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> AEW are on a goddamn roll. Next couple of months are going to be unmissable.


They finally pulling those triggers it seems


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Yup, he just tweeted "40 Days", All Out is in 40 Days.


It’ll be hilarious If he talks shit about Renee Young lol




Erik. said:


> I love how AEW don't just keep people off TV and then bring them back on with no explanation.
> 
> MJF being held off TV, not being in matches or put in the biggest feuds isn't because they don't know what to do with him, it's because it leads to this and his real BIG storyline. And it's the same with Archer, at least Roberts addressed it last week and they didn't just have Archer randomly do shit with no explanation as to where he's been.


It also ties in really well with last week where he forced the Griff kid to keep saying that he was undefeated.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Got another friend to give AEW a chance this Wednesday, dude literally never watched Wrestling and didn't know that they actually write storylines and characters for the wrestlers and he was interested.

If you want people to give AEW a shot, tell them that there is a new company that has a legit shot of beating WWE(I'm not arguing with anyone if that's true, who the fuck cares, not the point), and right away they are interested because yes, WWE is still what is recognized as Wrestling. Tell them about RAW's collapsing viewership and things like that, everyone can understand that stuff and be compelled, everyone is not going to be compelled to watch a 5 minute no context MJF promo right away.

I showed friends wrestling YEARS ago, Summerslam 2017, but dude, I couldn't recommend WWE programming because it wasn't that great in my opinion.

I told him some of the dumb shit WWE does, particularly the Dean Ambrose injection angle and his message was "The owner of WWE has to be Don Mattrick", if you don't know who Don Mattrick is, it's the guy that pretty much ran Xbox into the ground before Phil Spencer saved it.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> I love how AEW don't just keep people off TV and then bring them back on with no explanation.
> 
> MJF being held off TV, not being in matches or put in the biggest feuds isn't because they don't know what to do with him, it's because it leads to this and his real BIG storyline. And it's the same with Archer, at least Roberts addressed it last week and they didn't just have Archer randomly do shit with no explanation as to where he's been.


Let's not pretend their big idea was "yeah let's cool off MJF so he can gripe about not getting into matches as if he's a face". This is turning a fuck up into a work tho.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> Almost a million people watched AEW because they felt sorry for them lmao. That is a good one.


No, hahaha. A couple of hundred thousand? Sure. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> i wasn’t talking about yours
> 
> i’m sure yours happened - Wood’s essay is supect though


Because it doesn’t confirm your bias? Interesting.




Dizzie said:


> You mean 1 guy in all honesty, the guy has an unhealthy obsessive hatred for aew that its straight up sad


Most wrestling fans prefer WWE and don’t like AEW at all. Statistically true, don’t shoot the messenger. I think a lot of posters here are more obsessed with me than I apparently am with AEW.

By the way, my interest in talking about this fed is dying, you’ll be glad to know. It’s becoming more fun to talk about the WWE as the new car smell continues to fade. I’ll probably disappear from these boards soon and you watch how how dead they get when there is one less person to actually spark some conversation



RelivingTheShadow said:


> Got another friend to give AEW a chance this Wednesday, dude literally never watched Wrestling and didn't know that they actually write storylines and characters for the wrestlers and he was interested.
> 
> If you want people to give AEW a shot, tell them that there is a new company that has a legit shot of beating WWE(I'm not arguing with anyone if that's true, who the fuck cares, not the point), and right away they are interested because yes, WWE is still what is recognized as Wrestling. Tell them about RAW's collapsing viewership and things like that, everyone can understand that stuff and be compelled, everyone is not going to be compelled to watch a 5 minute no context MJF promo right away.
> 
> I showed friends wrestling YEARS ago, Summerslam 2017, but dude, I couldn't recommend WWE programming because it wasn't that great in my opinion.
> 
> I told him some of the dumb shit WWE does, particularly the Dean Ambrose injection angle and his message was "The owner of WWE has to be Don Mattrick", if you don't know who Don Mattrick is, it's the guy that pretty much ran Xbox into the ground before Phil Spencer saved it.


Can we please cut this bullshit out? This is seriously the most bush league and embarrassing stuff to post. There should be a rule against it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Because it doesn’t confirm your bias? Interesting.


pfft... i’ve never pretended to be impartial

of course i have tendency to believe more if it backs up my own opinion - this is the crux of online life, no?

besides, his was shorter to read


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Let's not pretend their big idea was "yeah let's cool off MJF so he can gripe about not getting into matches as if he's a face". This is turning a fuck up into a work tho.


What was the fuck up all things considered?


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> What was the fuck up all things considered?


The fact that they gave him a win over Cody in February and have done nothing of note with him since.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The fact that they gave him a win over Cody in February and have done nothing of note with him since.


He had a nice little mini-program with Jungle boy

and the story has been he hasn’t gotten a chance because he beat Cody - they’ve been saying that for some time - well, on twitter - so i guess nothing official


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> The fact that they gave him a win over Cody in February and have done nothing of note with him since.


What would you have done with him? He was gone for half of the weeks leading up to DON, so Mox wasn’t happening at that point, even though he cut a promo on the World title after he beat Cody, so he feuded with Jurassic Express and had a great match with Jungle Boy with 2 weeks of build at DON2 with another good tag match at Fyter Fest.

Not huge main event worthy feuds but there was nothing else considering all the other bigger baby faces were in feuds. He could have feuded with Jericho but that would entail turning him face. He could have feuded with Wardlow but that would mean breaking them up too soon. And why would they do MJF/Mox on a free Dynamite? I don’t see any fuck up personally. This was the first opportunity since the quarantine to actually make progress.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Let's not pretend their big idea was "yeah let's cool off MJF so he can gripe about not getting into matches as if he's a face". This is turning a fuck up into a work tho.


Where was I pretending?

Or do AEW usually keep people off television and then bring them out without them usually caring as to why they're not booked?

MJF has been complaining about his lack of position in the company for months and continuously brings up the fact he BEAT Cody.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> He had a nice little mini-program with Jungle boy
> 
> and the story has been he hasn’t gotten a chance because he beat Cody - they’ve been saying that for some time - well, on twitter - so i guess nothing official


I don't follow Twitter. The Jungle Boy thing was a step down though. It's like they moved backwards. 



prosperwithdeen said:


> What would you have done with him? He was gone for half of the weeks leading up to DON, so Mox wasn’t happening at that point, even though he cut a promo on the World title after he beat Cody, so he feuded with Jurassic Express and had a great match with Jungle Boy with 2 weeks of build at DON2 with another good tag match at Fyter Fest.
> 
> Not huge main event worthy feuds but there was nothing else considering all the other bigger baby faces were in feuds. He could have feuded with Jericho but that would entail turning him face. He could have feuded with Wardlow but that would mean breaking them up too soon. And why would they do MJF/Mox on a free Dynamite. I don’t see any fuck up personally. This was the first opportunity since the quarantine to actually make progress.


He wasn't gone half the weeks though, he was in the crowds gambling. Still tgey could've did video promos like they eventually did. I mean if Brodie can debut and get a feud with Moxley based off 3 weeks of build why not use that for MJF. 

Let's say they didn't want to go Moxley, then why not Hardy. Hardy is a big time name and would've been a nice feather in the cap of MJF. That could've been really interesting to see. 

You don't want to do that, then why not send him and Wardlow and Omega and Page for a tag feud.

Don't want to do that make him the first TNT champion. 

He just should've been doing something with stakes or something that got him a big name on his hit list.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Where was I pretending?
> 
> Or do AEW usually keep people off television and then bring them out without them usually caring as to why they're not booked?
> 
> MJF has been complaining about his lack of position in the company for months and continuously brings up the fact he BEAT Cody.


Because this is such a strange thing to do with a heel on purpose. What's the logic in cooling off your heel. Either you're giving them a lot of credit or they're making baffling decisions


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I don't follow Twitter. The Jungle Boy thing was a step down though. It's like they moved backwards.
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't gone half the weeks though, he was in the crowds gambling. Still tgey could've did video promos like they eventually did. I mean if Brodie can debut and get a feud with Moxley based off 3 weeks of build why not use that for MJF.
> 
> Let's say they didn't want to go Moxley, then why not Hardy. Hardy is a big time name and would've been a nice feather in the cap of MJF. That could've been really interesting to see.
> 
> You don't want to do that, then why not send him and Wardlow and Omega and Page for a tag feud.
> 
> Don't want to do that make him the first TNT champion.
> 
> He just should've been doing something with stakes or something that got him a big name on his hit list.


MJF is clearly seen as a bigger deal than Brodie so there’s no sense in rushing his first big title win. Doing it now would come off far better than during the height of the pandemic. From what I remember he was mostly gambling with Spears closer to the PPV when he was already feuding with Jungle Boy. He wasn’t there at first though enough of the time to warrant doing Mox vs MJF.

Half of those guys you listed were in Stadium Stampede and were feuding with IC. The Stampede match got them all of those PPV buys and cinematic matches were the thing at that point. I’d rather they did that match with Jungle Boy vs MJF over MJF and Wardlow vs Omega/Page. Then all the other guys are left directionless, especially Jericho.

I do agree that the TNT title could have been one thing to give him, but that would mean he has to lose his undefeated streak to a mid carder. Going into All Out he may keep the streak by beating Moxley which is far better.

He did need a bigger name on his hit list, but AEW hasn’t built up enough names yet just 14 months in. If there was any kind of fuck up I think that would be it, building major baby faces faster.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

With all due respect the likes of Erik and Optikk have to be trolling with just how much they defend/overrate AEW, right?

Erik genuinely believes that AEW cooled off their top heel in MJF by design whilst Optikk is proclaiming after one show that AEW is heating up and is going to be amazing.

I admire the passion but Jesus Christ guys.


----------



## Erik.

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Bruh, unless WWE does some crazy angle or main roster invasion on NXT, this is going to be a one sided beat down.


By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if Kingston interrupts.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> MJF is clearly seen as a bigger deal than Brodie so there’s no sense in rushing his first big title win. Doing it now would come off far better than during the height of the pandemic. From what I remember he was mostly gambling with Spears closer to the PPV when he was already feuding with Jungle Boy. He wasn’t there at first though enough of the time to warrant doing Mox vs MJF.
> 
> Half of those guys you listed were in Stadium Stampede and were feuding with IC. The Stampede match got them all of those PPV buys and cinematic matches were the thing at that point. I’d rather they did that match with Jungle Boy vs MJF over MJF and Wardlow vs Omega/Page. Then all the other guys are left directionless, especially Jericho.
> 
> I do agree that the TNT title could have been one thing to give him, but that would mean he has to lose his undefeated streak to a mid carder. Going into All Out he may keep the streak by beating Moxley which is far better.
> 
> He did need a bigger name on his hit list, but AEW hasn’t built up enough names yet just 14 months in. If there was any kind of fuck up I think that would be it, building major baby faces faster.


Idek if they were or are going to give him the title. But him versus Moxley was the logical next step given the level of the Cody win. But I'll give them the hey early Covid-19, didn't know what to do. They still should've had something besides gambling in the crowd. Gambling in the crowd was early too, because remember folk were talking about how him and Spears gambling was making the shows more enjoyable especially compared to WWE's no crowd at all. 

If you want to do Stadium Stampede don't do MJF & Wardlow vs Page & Omega, instead do MJF vs Hardy. Replace Hardy with Dustin given he had some old heat with the IC

Just could've been utilized better


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Idek if they were or are going to give him the title. But him versus Moxley was the logical next step given the level of the Cody win. But I'll give them the hey early Covid-19, didn't know what to do. They still should've had something besides gambling in the crowd. Gambling in the crowd was early too, because remember folk were talking about how him and Spears gambling was making the shows more enjoyable especially compared to WWE's no crowd at all.
> 
> If you want to do Stadium Stampede don't do MJF & Wardlow vs Page & Omega, instead do MJF vs Hardy. Replace Hardy with Dustin given he had some old heat with the IC
> 
> Just could've been utilized better


MJF vs Hardy would have been a good option that I didn’t really consider considering that Dustin had a feud with Hager anyway. It would have saved us from the comedy stuff in Stadium Stampede too. The match wouldn’t have been as good as the Jungle Boy one but it would have been a bigger win in general for his hit list I do agree.


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> MJF vs Hardy would have been a good option that I didn’t really consider considering that Dustin had a feud with Hager anyway. It would have saved us from the comedy stuff in Stadium Stampede too. The match wouldn’t have been as good as the Jungle Boy one but it would have been a bigger win in general for his hit list I do agree.


Hell even if they want to continue silly it's not like Dustin can't do silly. But Wednesday will be telling and we'll see how it goes. Hopefully it delivers and isn't another blown up announcement lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> With all due respect the likes of Erik and Optikk have to be trolling with just how much they defend/overrate AEW, right?
> 
> Erik genuinely believes that AEW cooled off their top heel in MJF by design whilst Optikk is proclaiming after one show that AEW is heating up and is going to be amazing.
> 
> I admire the passion but Jesus Christ guys.


it‘s just a natural antithesis to the normal myopic manatees on here

an anti-body like defence mechanism for our collective peace of mind, restoring the balance to the natural centre

for reference, a myopic manatee in its natural environment

’Cody is overrated guyz!’ _boop_


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Aew is heating up enjoy the ride guys.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT has announced, Shotzi Blackheart Vs. Mercedes Martinez, Balor/Lumis/Thatcher and a Keith Lee Promo.

Bro. This is going to be a squash match.


----------



## Cult03

NXT Only said:


> These dudes will just never give this company any credit.


Oh my god you fucking victim, we gave AEW plenty of credit in the live thread because they actually put on a really good show. Stop making these threads about us, I'm so fucking sick of talking about us instead of wrestling. This is not AngryAussiesForum.com so just stop.


----------



## sideon

So based on the quarter hour breakdowns it looks like Jericho wasn't enough to keep people interested, which explains why TK was praising the tag match getting over 1mil viewers for 5mins before the overall ratings were released LOL.


----------



## K4L318

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NXT has announced, Shotzi Blackheart Vs. Mercedes Martinez, Balor/Lumis/Thatcher and a Keith Lee Promo.
> 
> Bro. This is going to be a squash match.


dat should be major losses for NXT. 
perhaps Devitt saves it, but I can honestly say it looks like a dead show.


----------



## Prosper

Quarterly Breakdown for anyone who is interested. Looks like the Dark Order stuff really made cable viewers tune out lol. Cable viewers weren't really interested in the MJF squash either which is understandable. Everything else was strong with the Nielson audience.

588K was the low on the NXT side damn. Surprised that the main event didn't pick up many people. The triple threat was one of the best I've seen in the last 5 years and it lost cable viewers. Surprising.

_Q1: Cody vs. Eddie Kingston – 0.305 demo rating, 905,000 viewers
Q2: Jon Moxley promo, MJF vs. Griff Garrison – 0.293 demo rating (down 1.17%), 811,000 viewers (-94,000)
Q3: Britt Baker and Taz promos, Ricky Starks & Brian Cage attack Darby Allin – 0.347 demo rating (up 5.31%), 892,000 viewers (+81,000)
Q4: Young Bucks vs. The Butcher & The Blade – 0.359 demo rating (up 1.17%), 912,000 (+20,000)
Q5: Lance Archer promo, Diamante vs. Ivelisse – 0.341 demo rating (down 1.72%), 887,000 (-25,000)
Q6: Adam Page vs. Five, Brodie Lee promo – 0.316 demo rating (down 2.58%), 806,000 (-81,000)
Q7: Page vs. Five ending, Main event entrances – 0.29 demo rating (down 2.58%), 749,000 (-57,000)
Q8: Chris Jericho & Jake Hager vs. Jurassic Express – 0.307 demo rating (up 1.72%), 799,000 (+50,000)

Q1: William Regal/Keith Lee announcement, Dexter Lumis vs. Killian Dain – 0.155 demo rating, 633,000 viewers
Q2: Ever-Rise vs. Breezango – 0.173 demo rating (up 1.72%), 602,000 viewers (-31,000)
Q3: Aliyah vs. Shotzi Blackheart – 0.182 demo rating (up 0.94%), 632,000 viewers (+30,000)
Q4: Johnny Gargano vs. Bronson Reed vs. Roderick Strong – 0.176 demo rating (down 0.63%), 616,000 viewers (-16,000)
Q5: Gargano vs. Reed vs. Strong finish – 0.178 demo rating (up 0.23%), 651,000 viewers (+35,000)
Q6: Timothy Thatcher vs. Oney Lorcan – 0.154 demo rating (down 2.42%), 588,000 viewers (-63,000)
Q7: Robert Stone segment w/Martinez & Aliyah, Finn Balor promo – 0.169 demo rating (up 1.48%), 599,000 viewers (+11,000)
Q8: Dominik Dijakovic vs. Karrion Kross – 0.181 demo rating (up 1.25%), 602,000 viewers (+3,000)_



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287810830273327104


----------



## K4L318

yo explain how ya quarter numbers aint like dat tweet.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> Oh my god you fucking victim, we gave AEW plenty of credit in the live thread because they actually put on a really good show. Stop making these threads about us, I'm so fucking sick of talking about us instead of wrestling. This is not AngryAussiesForum.com so just stop.


I am changing my location to Australia for now in solidarity.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> I am changing my location to Australia for now in solidarity.


Welcome honorary Australian. Avoid Melbourne and enjoy your stay.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it‘s just a natural antithesis to the normal myopic manatees on here
> 
> an anti-body like defence mechanism for our collective peace of mind, restoring the balance to the natural centre
> 
> for reference, a myopic manatee in its natural environment
> 
> ’Cody is overrated guyz!’ _boop_


People respond your delusions with a dose of reality. You retort by trying to insult people. Classy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> People respond your delusions with a dose of reality. You retort by trying to insult people. Classy.


Please, that wasn’t an insult

you’ll know when I’m insulting you - myopic manatees is like a cute nickname

like a team name


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Please, that wasn’t an insult
> 
> you’ll know when I’m insulting you - myopic manatees is like a cute nickname
> 
> like a team name


It insulted my intelligence. And it is being condescending without wit. And it’s borrowed and uninspired. It’s taking the place of any sort of reasonable discussion. Cut it out and have a grown up convo, please.


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> No, hahaha. A couple of hundred thousand? Sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Because it doesn’t confirm your bias? Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most wrestling fans prefer WWE and don’t like AEW at all. Statistically true, don’t shoot the messenger. I think a lot of posters here are more obsessed with me than I apparently am with AEW.
> 
> By the way, my interest in talking about this fed is dying, you’ll be glad to know. It’s becoming more fun to talk about the WWE as the new car smell continues to fade. I’ll probably disappear from these boards soon and you watch how how dead they get when there is one less person to actually spark some discussion.


That would be cool but very much doubt you will though because judging from your constant negative agenda driven essay long posts I cant imagine your diary is full up with a list things to do outside of this forum section.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> It insulted my intelligence. And it is being condescending without wit. And it’s borrowed and uninspired. It’s taking the place of any sort of reasonable discussion. Cut it out and have a grown up convo, please.







i will as soon as there is something intelligent to discuss

’i can’t believe you guys are excited’ is not it


----------



## The Wood

Dizzie said:


> That would be cool but very much doubt you will though because judging from your constant negative agenda driven essay long posts I cant imagine your diary is full up with a list things to do outside of this forum section.


The irony of trying to mock people for posting on a wrestling forum...on a wrestling forum.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Can we please cut this bullshit out? This is seriously the most bush league and embarrassing stuff to post. There should be a rule against it.


Can I ask what the difference is between @RelivingTheShadow's post and your post below?



The Wood said:


> That's funny -- I showed a friend of mine some clips of AEW, and she hated the vibe of the show.
> 
> When she first saw Orange Cassidy, she said "Why the fuck did such a skinny guy get that job?" I told her that people say that when he tries he gets really good, and she said "Why doesn't he try from the start?" She even likes anime. Obsessed with Death Note and Fullmetal Alchemist and watched plenty growing up. Tried to make me watch One Piece when it recently came onto Netflix. I showed her Archer killing some geeks and she thought it was weird that people watch little people getting hurt in 2020, and she again asked why it would be allowed to happen -- "why would these people have jobs there?"
> 
> Her brothers used to watch wrestling and she actually has some pretty fond memories of the Attitude era. Humorously, she's always hated Triple H and she couldn't watch with her brothers when he became "the main guy" after Rock and Austin left. She actually really liked Chris Jericho back in the day. Saw him on AEW and thought "Wow, he's really let himself go! Why is he still doing this? Can't he do movies or something?"
> 
> She likes MJF, but thinks he could be hotter. "He's a hot guy character who isn't that hot." Wondered why they don't have any big wrestlers when they are apparently owned by a billionaire. She asked me why they wouldn't get some of the football players to wrestle, especially when I told her the Jaguars suck. Some other memorable quotes (not verbatim, although I've got a really good memory):
> 
> "They don't make wrestlers like they used to."
> 
> "There are like ten hotter guys at the gym every time I go."
> 
> "That is a fucking hideous tattoo. Is he really married to that woman? Why would she let him do that? (laughs) That's got to be fake. Their marriage, not the tattoo."
> 
> "Remember Kevin Nash. He had great hair. I think he still did in Magic Mike. They could really use wrestlers with great hair." (came about because she hates Jericho's hair and basically everyone else in AEW has "awful hair")
> 
> "Are these guys comedian wrestlers?" (referring to The Young Bucks -- she doesn't get them _at all_)
> 
> "He's pretty hot and his man-bun is annoying...in a good way!" (referring to Wardlow)
> 
> "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? Wouldn't that make it hard to see?" (referring to Luchasaurus -- she _really_ hated him for some reason)
> 
> "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask? (mocking voice) If you take it off you might be able to read your notes, fuck pickle" (referring to Excalibur -- "Why is that dickhead wearing a mask?" has become an inside joke when someone is having trouble doing the simplest of tasks or when we see someone wearing a mask out and about because of the 'rona)
> 
> "This is setting back feminism about forty years" (during a women's match, and I can't remember who was in it, but I've got a feeling one of the women was Britt Baker)
> 
> "Chris Jericho should do a comedy movie where he plays a rock star dad whose kids are embarrassed by him. They can call it The School of Schlock."
> 
> Other wrestlers she really enjoys are Batista and Daniel Bryan. Thinks Batista has "Dilfy sex appeal" and Bryan seems like a "cool guy." And the aforementioned Kevin Nash, who she calls "Pantene Protein." But her favourite wrestlers of all-time, just from the limited wrestling she sees on a lark, are actually, get this -- Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi. She saw some All Japan with her brothers and makes jokes about how she drives a "Misawa" and gives a wink, because she considers him a sexy Japanese business dad as a joke. She will also randomly yell "Kobashi!" and start miming chopping people's throats when she's either drunk or bored. Other wrestlers she hates are Dolph Ziggler ("biggest try-hard in the whole fucking world") and Sable ("her voice dries me up"). She kind of likes Randy Orton, but she feels that he would fall asleep in the middle of fucking her and leave her hanging. She will mime giving people an RKO out of nowhere though. She's 27 though and has a general appreciation and memories of wrestling without being anywhere near a regular or hardcore fan (although with some bizarre arcane knowledge due to her brothers and me showing her random shit over the years).
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Anyone can play that game. It's called "anecdotal evidence."


I see no reason to speak to people in that manner. It's combustable and unnecessary.


----------



## Not Lying

prosperwithdeen said:


> Quarterly Breakdown for anyone who is interested. Looks like the Dark Order stuff really made cable viewers tune out lol. Cable viewers weren't really interested in the MJF squash either which is understandable. Everything else was strong with the Nielson audience.
> 
> 588K was the low on the NXT side damn. Surprised that the main event didn't pick up many people. The triple threat was one of the best I've seen in the last 5 years and it lost cable viewers. Surprising.
> 
> _Q1: Cody vs. Eddie Kingston – 0.305 demo rating, 905,000 viewers
> Q2: Jon Moxley promo, MJF vs. Griff Garrison – 0.293 demo rating (down 1.17%), 811,000 viewers (-94,000)
> Q3: Britt Baker and Taz promos, Ricky Starks & Brian Cage attack Darby Allin – 0.347 demo rating (up 5.31%), 892,000 viewers (+81,000)
> Q4: Young Bucks vs. The Butcher & The Blade – 0.359 demo rating (up 1.17%), 912,000 (+20,000)
> Q5: Lance Archer promo, Diamante vs. Ivelisse – 0.341 demo rating (down 1.72%), 887,000 (-25,000)
> Q6: Adam Page vs. Five, Brodie Lee promo – 0.316 demo rating (down 2.58%), 806,000 (-81,000)
> Q7: Page vs. Five ending, Main event entrances – 0.29 demo rating (down 2.58%), 749,000 (-57,000)
> Q8: Chris Jericho & Jake Hager vs. Jurassic Express – 0.307 demo rating (up 1.72%), 799,000 (+50,000)
> 
> Q1: William Regal/Keith Lee announcement, Dexter Lumis vs. Killian Dain – 0.155 demo rating, 633,000 viewers
> Q2: Ever-Rise vs. Breezango – 0.173 demo rating (up 1.72%), 602,000 viewers (-31,000)
> Q3: Aliyah vs. Shotzi Blackheart – 0.182 demo rating (up 0.94%), 632,000 viewers (+30,000)
> Q4: Johnny Gargano vs. Bronson Reed vs. Roderick Strong – 0.176 demo rating (down 0.63%), 616,000 viewers (-16,000)
> Q5: Gargano vs. Reed vs. Strong finish – 0.178 demo rating (up 0.23%), 651,000 viewers (+35,000)
> Q6: Timothy Thatcher vs. Oney Lorcan – 0.154 demo rating (down 2.42%), 588,000 viewers (-63,000)
> Q7: Robert Stone segment w/Martinez & Aliyah, Finn Balor promo – 0.169 demo rating (up 1.48%), 599,000 viewers (+11,000)
> Q8: Dominik Dijakovic vs. Karrion Kross – 0.181 demo rating (up 1.25%), 602,000 viewers (+3,000)_
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287810830273327104


So, for AEW, Strongest Q1 numbers a while no?
Good increase for Mox/Darby, Bucks, and Y2J/JE. Women's match held viewership strong, I expect Diamante and Shida to see an increase next week.

DO stuff in Q6 and Q7 are bad. I think it's time to either give them credibility (they win tomorrow) or disband this act, I'd have Stu be standout star to stand up to Brodie, gets beaten and they all move on to something new. If they lose tomorrow, Dark Order should be finished.

For NXT the 3-way gained back viewers for Q5, and Shotzi/Robert Stone good increase, the small Balor promo also decent increase.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Don't really see what's wrong with anecdotal posts, it's just interesting information. I'm sure some people find it interesting, these people wanted to see RAW last night just so they can compare it to AEW this coming Wednesday, and yeah, we watched it and shat all over it, but I'm not gonna make hate watching a regular thing I do.

I found this message a friend sent me about Orton/Big Show because they played a recap of it and I explained to him that was their attempt at a ratings bump and this morning he sends me his solution to bump the ratings 










He HATED Seth Rollins gimmick. Loved the women's match and thought it was awesome the girls get a chance now and absolutely HATED the finish.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Welcome honorary Australian. Avoid Melbourne and enjoy your stay.


And of course I woke up to an email from my security guy asking why I was logged into Office 365 from Australia. I declined to give the real reason heh.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> And of course I woke up to an email from my security guy asking why I was logged into Office 365 from Australia. I declined to give the real reason heh.


You’re suffering for your art


----------



## Dizzie

The Wood said:


> The irony of trying to mock people for posting on a wrestling forum...on a wrestling forum.


I'm not mocking ya I'm just calling out your bs of saying that your going to stop posting in here and considering you are the top contributor month after month on this forum and you are constantly posting essay long posts when you go out of your way to find the slightest opportunity to shit on aew to the point that it is clear you have an unhealthy obsessive one sided hatred of product, then i think it's a fair assumption that you can't be leading the busiest of life's outside of this forum.


----------



## Garty

Totally unrelated to wrestling, but on the topic of ratings vs demos... it's all about the demos:

Adam Carolla talks TV ratings
Start play at 3:10 through to 5:25


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Can I ask what the difference is between @RelivingTheShadow's post and your post below?
> 
> 
> 
> I see no reason to speak to people in that manner. It's combustable and unnecessary.


You’ve ignored the part where I said “Anyone can play that game. It’s called anecdotal evidence.” Anyone can play that game. It’s called anecdital



Dizzie said:


> I'm not mocking ya I'm just calling out your bs of saying that your going to stop posting in here and considering you are the top contributor month after month on this forum and you are constantly posting essay long posts when you go out of your way to find the slightest opportunity to shit on aew to the point that it is clear you have an unhealthy obsessive one sided hatred of product, then i think it's a fair assumption that you can't be leading the busiest of life's outside of this forum.


Alright, see ya. I post here because I enjoy talking about wrestling. I don’t know how many times I have to explain this to people. But if a bunch of scrubs _on a forum_ are going to mock me for posting _on that forum_, screw it. I’ll go do something else.



Garty said:


> Totally unrelated to wrestling, but on the topic of ratings vs demos... it's all about the demos:
> 
> Adam Carolla talks TV ratings
> Start play at 3:10 through to 5:25


Adam Carolla is a hack. Fuck that guy. Very happy for that to be my last post here for a long time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RAWs 3rd hour this week did the same number - demo and overall - as AEW’s debut show

gently touching tips with that 3rd hour soon - especially leading up to All Out


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> RAWs 3rd hour this week did the same number - demo and overall - as AEW’s debut show
> 
> gently touching tips with that 3rd hour soon - especially leading up to All Out


Do you remember back in May or so, we were talking about the end of August where this may happen? It’s coming true.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> RAWs 3rd hour this week did the same number - demo and overall - as AEW’s debut show
> 
> gently touching tips with that 3rd hour soon - especially leading up to All Out


RAW is so fuckin terrible it's actually insane. I thought AEW would have to catch up to RAW's 1.7 - 1.8 over multiple years, but now they only have to catch up to a 1.4? Damn lol. If RAW drops to a 1.2 in the next couple of weeks, then I think AEW could definitely be ahead of them by the end of August. It's WWE's fault though.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> RAW is so fuckin terrible it's actually insane. I thought AEW would have to catch up to RAW's 1.7 - 1.8 over multiple years, but now they only have to catch up to a 1.4? Damn lol. If RAW drops to a 1.2 in the next couple of weeks, then I think AEW could definitely be ahead of them by the end of August. It's WWE's fault though.


AEW is also going to face more competition


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> RAW is so fuckin terrible it's actually insane. I thought AEW would have to catch up to RAW's 1.7 - 1.8 over multiple years, but now they only have to catch up to a 1.4? Damn lol. If RAW drops to a 1.2 in the next couple of weeks, then I think AEW could definitely be ahead of them by the end of August. It's WWE's fault though.


Too bad Raw got 1.6 million viewers OVERALL this week NOT 1.4 million.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> Do you remember back in May or so, we were talking about the end of August where this may happen? It’s coming true.


Whats coming true? Dynamite won't catch Raw in the ratings nor in the viewership.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> AEW is also going to face more competition


From RAW? They are on 2 separate nights. If they move main roster talent to NXT though, that would increase the competition.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> From RAW? They are on 2 separate nights. If they move main roster talent to NXT though, that would increase the competition.


Sport coming back


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Do you remember back in May or so, we were talking about the end of August where this may happen? It’s coming true.


yup - i also remember us being ‘laughed out the building’

yet.... here we are


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Sport coming back


Yeah true. They should be okay with the NBA coming back. A lot of games air on TNT (I think most of them), so they can dodge a lot of those bullets but not all of them because some games run on other networks on Wednesdays. NFL only runs on Mondays, Thursdays, and Sundays so football only really hurts RAW. MLB is on every day I think so that may hurt some. Not sure about the NHL's schedule.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yup - i also remember us being ‘laughed out the building’
> 
> yet.... here we are


Yes I remember 😂 845k last week right? Tony Khan will save pro wrestling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

It's hard to see AEW as an underdog defying the odds when their fans are just so arrogant.


----------



## Ozell Gray

On thursday when we see that Dynamite has lost 100,000 viewers AEW fans will then say "ratings don't matter. Just enjoy the shows."


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's hard to see AEW as an underdog defying the odds when their fans are just so arrogant.


It's hard to not to throw some shade back when geeks wanted to blame everything THEY didn't enjoy in the show on the talent or booking and predict the demise of the company.

Everytime NXT beats AEW in the ratings, it's the same shit, "this is it" "now is the real trend that begins" bla bla.

Fans see it: A company in its infancy learning from their mistakes and improving and ADAPTING to unforeseen changes. 

Haters see it: OMFG Marko!!1 Sonny!111 That's why Watings are down!! SpOrTs PResEnTaTIon!! 1.4m to 600K !!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> It's hard to not to throw some shade back when geeks wanted to blame everything THEY didn't enjoy in the show on the talent or booking and predict the demise of the company.
> 
> Everytime NXT beats AEW in the ratings, it's the same shit, "this is it" "now is the real trend that begins" bla bla.
> 
> Fans see it: A company in its infancy learning from their mistakes and improving and ADAPTING to unforeseen changes.
> 
> Haters see it: OMFG Marko!!1 Sonny!111 That's why Watings are down!! SpOrTs PResEnTaTIon!! 1.4m to 600K !!


I don't know man, it's not really so much the shade or being happy that bothers me to read it's the mocking of people for their views and point blank making things up. Nobody ever "laughed" CattleClass "out of the building" just like nobody ever said any of the shit Optikk talks about every time the ratings come out. You're kind of doing it yourself now, nobody ever says that poor ratings from AEW is going to kill the company or that the company is on it's deathbed but that's the narrative that is pushed weekly in this thread. I think all the "haters" have agreed that AEW can survive for as long as it wants to because it's backed by a billionaire.

Not to mention the complete hypocrisy with many of you all. 2 weeks ago when NXT was winning the ratings scuffle it suddenly became "Ratings don't really matter just enjoy the show" and "Demographics" but when AEW wins in both demographics and total viewership it changes to the total being important again. It's also super annoying to see guys trying to pin absolutely anything they can to AEW beating WWE in any capacity. It seems that the reality of the situation is that AEW fans are just desperate to beat WWE and will take any kind of victory even if it's something stupid and small. It's really quite sad.

The worst though is Optikk every week acting juvenile and picking fights every week when the ratings come out.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know man, it's not really so much the shade or being happy that bothers me to read it's the mocking of people for their views and point blank making things up. Nobody ever "laughed" CattleClass "out of the building" just like nobody ever said any of the shit Optikk talks about every time the ratings come out. You're kind of doing it yourself now, nobody ever says that poor ratings from AEW is going to kill the company or that the company is on it's deathbed but that's the narrative that is pushed weekly in this thread. I think all the "haters" have agreed that AEW can survive for as long as it wants to because it's backed by a billionaire.
> 
> Not to mention the complete hypocrisy with many of you all. 2 weeks ago when NXT was winning the ratings scuffle it suddenly became "Ratings don't really matter just enjoy the show" and "Demographics" but when AEW wins in both demographics and total viewership it changes to the total being important again. It's also super annoying to see guys trying to pin absolutely anything they can to AEW beating WWE in any capacity. It seems that the reality of the situation is that AEW fans are just desperate to beat WWE in any capacity and will take any kind of victory even if it's something stupid and small. It's really quite sad.
> 
> The worst though is Optikk every week acting juvenile and picking fights every week when the ratings come out.


I'm not making shit up.
Actually a lot of people predicted the end of AEW less than a year including Cornette, so are you telling me a lot of his cronies didn't believe him. You can't be serious inn claiming you never saw people say AEW will be out of business? especially before the 4 year TNT deal was announced.
Then you had a few others already claiming they will be done inn 3-4 years as well. So, plz, don't try and tell me "nobody's claiming their demise'.
And just because they hate a billionaire owner doesn't mean they can survive as much as they want, Khan is a business man.

How does AEW winning changes the narrative of the posters?
NXT wins = Total Ratings don't matter, AEW has the higher demo, they will make more money from advertisers.

AEW wins = Not only did AEW win the demo, but they are also beating NXT in total viewership, which mean WWE fansboys WERE WRONG WRONG WRONG about "dying interest in AEW" "this is the start of the real trend".

AEW beating WWE in any capacity is impressive. The fact you don't understand that means you either had either too much expectations for AEW, or very low expectations of WWE.

We are are comparing a company who was predicted to get 400k viewers a week to a GLOBAL MONOPOLIST who can outbid on any talent if they're desperate too.

The fact they already beat RAW in some key demos WITH COMPETITION, should tell you a lot.
AEW fans have the RIGHT to be arrogant, considering all the FAKE SHIT, WWE fan boys post.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Whats funny about this is AEW hasn't beaten WWE in ANY capicity. They're barely beating NXT which isn't impressive whatsoever since its a developmental with nobodies on there. Dynamite if anything should be beating NXT by MORE than what it is considering it has bigger names on the show but the fact it barely edges out NXT by 50,000 viewers is terrible. 

WWE is a monopoly? Thats wierd because a monopoly is illegal and theres thousands of other companies out there. People who use the word monopoly don't even know what it means but to spare you the time heres what it means. the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. So by this definition WWE isn't a monopoly by any means and to top it off if it was a monopoly the government would've broken up the company. 

monopolies are *illegal* if they are established or maintained through improper conduct, such as exclusionary or predatory acts. This is known as anticompetitive monopolization.











Illegal Monopolies | Antitrust Law: What is a Legal vs. Illegal Monopoly


A monopoly is when a company has exclusive control over a good or service in a particular market. Not all monopolies are illegal. For example, businesses might legally corner their market if they… Read more »




www.classlawgroup.com







So WWE aren't anywhere close to being a monopoly.


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288220359712559105


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288220359712559105



Lol if you bothered to look at his account he says in his own bio that hes a burner account and second of all hes posting UNSUBSTATIATED numbers but hey anything to fit the AEW agenda I guess. If you want to believe this guy when none of those numbers are legit then go ahead. Oh and by the way heres what the guy who replied to him said 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288222538548629504


Also heres you go 








UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.27.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know man, it's not really so much the shade or being happy that bothers me to read it's the mocking of people for their views and point blank making things up. Nobody ever "laughed" CattleClass "out of the building" just like nobody ever said any of the shit Optikk talks about every time the ratings come out. You're kind of doing it yourself now, nobody ever says that poor ratings from AEW is going to kill the company or that the company is on it's deathbed but that's the narrative that is pushed weekly in this thread. I think all the "haters" have agreed that AEW can survive for as long as it wants to because it's backed by a billionaire.
> 
> Not to mention the complete hypocrisy with many of you all. 2 weeks ago when NXT was winning the ratings scuffle it suddenly became "Ratings don't really matter just enjoy the show" and "Demographics" but when AEW wins in both demographics and total viewership it changes to the total being important again. It's also super annoying to see guys trying to pin absolutely anything they can to AEW beating WWE in any capacity. It seems that the reality of the situation is that AEW fans are just desperate to beat WWE and will take any kind of victory even if it's something stupid and small. It's really quite sad.
> 
> The worst though is Optikk every week acting juvenile and picking fights every week when the ratings come out.


thanks chip

I can’t remember if you were around fro these sorts of posts. A simple thread asking for storyline predictions for 2020, being trolled in this manner:


The Wood said:


> I predict Jericho and JR are out of the company by the end of the year.
> 
> Fans abandon the show in droves and by WrestleMania the clock will be called on it ever having a chance to be competitive with even NXT.





The Wood said:


> Yes, because a company with contracted employees has never closed up before.


----------



## Not Lying

This isn't bad news for WWE but more for AEW if it's true about them splitting ad revenue with TNT 50/50.

2 of the 3 biggest advertising and PR companies in the world Publicis and Omnicom published their earnings recently and they are down big time


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288080966217596928
Publicis didn't give any guidance on the rest of the year.

Basically, if you're invested right now in a company that depends heavily on ad revenue, get ready for a rough ride.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Lol if you bothered to look at his account he says in his own bio that hes a burner account and second of all hes posting UNSUBSTATIATED numbers but hey anything to fit the AEW agenda I guess. If you want to believe this guy when none of those numbers are legit then go ahead.


What? These numbers are available for everybody


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> What? These numbers are available for everybody


You mean these numbers?








UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.27.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com







Because the twitter burner account who posted those numbers are factually incorrect but I give you A+ for trying. You also forgot to include this 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288222538548629504


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> You mean these numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.27.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the twitter burner account who posted those numbers are factually incorrect but I give you A+ for trying. You also forgot to include this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288222538548629504


Bixenspan posted raw numbers.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Bixenspan posted raw numbers.


You posted a burner account who posted false numbers to try and make it like Dynamite beat Raw in a demo when that never happened.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> You posted a burner account who posted false numbers to try and make it like Dynamite beat Raw in a demo when that never happened.


Troll


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-22-WED.png


----------



## Not Lying

Pippen94 said:


> What? These numbers are available for everybody


Were you talking to me?
So what if they're available for everyone?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Troll
> 
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-22-WED.png


Ok troll 







UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.27.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com







The numbers the burner account posted aren't accurate at all 😆.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Ok troll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 7.27.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers the burner account posted aren't accurate at all 😆.


He got one figure wrong - raw was .21 instead of .19. 
You going to dismiss rest?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> He got one figure wrong - raw was .21 instead of .19.
> You going to dismiss rest?


Exactly he was wrong so why post something if the guy who posts is lying? You're trying to start some fake news about Dynamite beating Raw in demos when that never happened and never will happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's hard to see AEW as an underdog defying the odds when their fans are just so arrogant.


you were expecting quiet golf claps?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't know man, it's not really so much the shade or being happy that bothers me to read it's the mocking of people for their views and point blank making things up. *Nobody ever "laughed" CattleClass "out of the building" just like nobody ever said any of the shit Optikk talks about every time the ratings come out.* You're kind of doing it yourself now, nobody ever says that poor ratings from AEW is going to kill the company or that the company is on it's deathbed but that's the narrative that is pushed weekly in this thread. I think all the "haters" have agreed that AEW can survive for as long as it wants to because it's backed by a billionaire.
> 
> Not to mention the complete hypocrisy with many of you all. 2 weeks ago when NXT was winning the ratings scuffle it suddenly became "Ratings don't really matter just enjoy the show" and "Demographics" but when AEW wins in both demographics and total viewership it changes to the total being important again. It's also super annoying to see guys trying to pin absolutely anything they can to AEW beating WWE in any capacity. It seems that the reality of the situation is that AEW fans are just desperate to beat WWE and will take any kind of victory even if it's something stupid and small. It's really quite sad.
> 
> The worst though is Optikk every week acting juvenile and picking fights every week when the ratings come out.


mate.... there is a whole thread here - just go back and look

at the same time, the real game has always been ‘beating RAW’ - if we even sniff that, even if on their weakest hour - it is going to be discussed

that doesn’t change ‘ ratings don’t matter ‘ / ‘enjoy the show’

but it is interesting that a year old show (not even), that has been counter-programmed might start to compete with RAWs weakest hour, no?


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Exactly he was wrong so why post something if the guy who posts is lying? You're trying to start some fake news about Dynamite beating Raw in demos when that never happened and never will happen.


Ha - so you can ignore where aew beat raw cause guy made small slip up?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Ha - so you can ignore where aew beat raw cause guy made small slip up?


They never beat Raw but keep believing this nonsense even though this guy got the numbers wrong and got corrected on it.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> They never beat Raw but keep believing this nonsense even though this guy got the numbers wrong and got corrected on it.


Aew beat 3rd hour of raw in;
P18-34
F12-34

M12-34 just .02 off


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Aew beat 3rd hour of raw in;
> P18-34
> F12-34
> 
> M12-34 just .02 off


Too bad the 3rd numbers weren't released and those numbers came from Bixenspan whoseknown for lying and can't hold a job long term. So again show me where they beat raw. Dhow me actual proof not unsubstantiated claims made by someone on twitter.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Too bad the 3rd numbers weren't released and those numbers came from Bixenspan whoseknown for lying and can't hold a job long term. So again show me where they beat raw. Dhow me actual proof not unsubstantiated claims made by someone on twitter.


Raw has three entries;


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-27-MON.png


There it is - no more denying


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Raw has three entries;
> 
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Final-Cable-2020-Jul-27-MON.png
> 
> 
> There it is - no more denying


Dude thats the link I posted in my other post. I said show and prove to me that Dynamite beat Raw in that rating which you STILL haven't done yet. By the way heres proof right here that theres no demo numbers for all 3 hours of Raw because Showbuzz Daily never posts those numbers.

Monday's WWE RAW episode, featuring WWE Champion Drew McIntyre defeating Dolph Ziggler in a non-title _Extreme Rules_ main event, drew an average of 1.617 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Showbuzz Daily.

This is down from 0.7% from last week's 1.628 million viewers for the post-Extreme Rules pay-per-view episode, and is the second-lowest viewership in the history of the show.
For this week's show, the first hour drew 1.699 million viewers (last week's hour 1 - 1.740 million), the second hour drew 1.688 million viewers (last week's hour 2 - 1.609 million) and the final hour drew 1.463 million viewers (last week's hour 3 - 1.535 million).

This 1.463 million viewers is the lowest third hour viewership in the history of RAW. The next lowest third hour average was the 1.504 million viewers that the July 13 episode drew. The audience was down 30% from the same week last year.

WWE ranked #4 for the night on the Cable Top 150, for the fourth week in a row, with an average 18-49 demographic rating of 0.48. The top three were 90 Day Fiance: Other Way, Below Deck, and 90 Day Fiance: Pillow Talk. 90 Day Fiance: Other Way topped the night on the Cable Top 150, for the sixth week in a row, with a 0.77 rating in the 18-49 demographic, drawing 3.015 million viewers. Tucker Carlson Tonight on FOX News once again topped the night on cable in viewership with 3.796 million viewers, ranking #6 on the Top 150 with a 0.30 rating in the key demo.











WWE RAW Garners Near Record-Low Audience, Lowest Third Hour Viewership In Show History


Monday's WWE RAW episode, featuring WWE Champion Drew McIntyre defeating Dolph Ziggler in a non-title Extreme Rules main event, drew an average of 1.617 million…




www.wrestlinginc.com








So again you have proof to back up this false narrative from that burner account on twitter.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Too bad the 3rd numbers weren't released and those numbers came from Bixenspan whoseknown for lying and can't hold a job long term. So again show me where they beat raw. Dhow me actual proof not unsubstantiated claims made by someone on twitter.


to make it easier for you ouzel, here is the different ratings on the same image









i dont really care for the comparison but there you go


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> to make it easier for you ouzel, here is the different ratings on the same image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i dont really care for the comparison but there you go


Thanks you but he said the 3rd hour not the overall ratings but that chart proves my point Raw beat Dynamite in all of those ratings. 👍


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Thanks you but he said the 3rd hour not the overall ratings but that chart proves my point Raw beat Dynamite in all of those ratings. 👍


yeah dynamite beat RAW in the third hour for those 2 groups. like i said its not the best comparison, but here we are.


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> yeah dynamite beat RAW in the third hour for those 2 groups. like i said its not the best comparison, but here we are.


Yeah its not something to brag about since Raw still beat Dynamite in the overall ratings in every category so people are now reaching and looking for hourly numbers to try prove a point but thats not how it works.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> to make it easier for you ouzel, here is the different ratings on the same image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i dont really care for the comparison but there you go


See the 100K drop from H2 to h3 in females?
Asuka/Sasha was between the 2nd and 3rd hour. It's not far fetched to assume that all these young females tuned out after the women's match was over.. Bringing me back to a point that AEW can increase their demo here if they improve their women's division.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah its not something to brag about since Raw still beat Dynamite in the overall ratings in every category so people are now reaching and looking for hourly numbers to try prove a point but thats not how it works.


of course. it's a terrible comparison especially because we know that third hour is a killer. It always has been the killer. Three hours is just too long for a weekly show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> to make it easier for you ouzel, here is the different ratings on the same image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i dont really care for the comparison but there you go


quite interesting that AEWs F 12-34 almost being as high as 18-49

their female demo skews younger - which is good for the future


----------



## Ozell Gray

optikk sucks said:


> of course. it's a terrible comparison especially because we know that third hour is a killer. It always has been the killer. Three hours is just too long for a weekly show.


Yeah thats what I saying. Why cherry pick the 3rd hour's ratings but not the other hours or the show's overall ratings? Because as you saw in the demos Raw was far ahead in the ratings in every category. The 3rd hour is an unneeded hour but is only there to satisfy NBCUniversal.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> of course. it's a terrible comparison especially because we know that third hour is a killer. It always has been the killer. Three hours is just too long for a weekly show.


happened for the first time last week - shows overall trend of wwe sliding


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> happened for the first time last week - shows overall trend of wwe sliding


AEW and NXT are the only two shows that are holding up. That's crazy if you think about it. The giants are being slain by COVID.


----------



## TD Stinger

optikk sucks said:


> AEW and NXT are the only two shows that are holding up. That's crazy if you think about it. The giants are being slain by COVID.


From what I've seen NXT has been the brand that's stayed the most consistent in terms of viewership. Now, that's mainly because before the pandemic, they were usually in the 700k range. And ever since the pandemic have been roughly in the 600k-700k range, at times dipping into 500k. There was less of a drop for them.

AEW was in the 800k-900k range before the pandemic and since then were consistently in the 700k range up until recently. So it is nice to see AEW and NXT stay somewhat consistent, though they had less of an audience to lose.

When I look at SD, they were doing roughly 2.3 to 2.5 every show and now they're down to about 1.9, hovering just below 2.0. So with them, once fans come back (even though that might take another year) I have more confidence they could get back to where they were or close to it. Raw on the other hand has seemingly put themselves into a hole and I don't even know how they're going to climb out of it, especially with that 3rd hour.


----------



## Dizzie

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's hard to see AEW as an underdog defying the odds when their fans are just so arrogant.


You mean some, let's no couple all aew fans into being so arrogant otherwise you would have to include yourself into that same group of fans, that is of course you are really a fan of aew 🧐


----------



## Dizzie

Look, any fans on here that do have a real passion for aew and wanting it to succeed should really chill with talking shit about wwe/nxt and jumping the gun of claiming aew will be catching up with wwe main shows demos and ratings because it just creates more friction with fans of other promotions and and helps the reaffirm their stance of anti all things aew.

If other die hard fans of other promotions wants to hop into the aew forum and shit on the product out of an irrational hatred of the promotion then just allow them to lower themselves into looking like embarrassingly irrational wwe/tna etc.. fanboys..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> Look, any fans on here that do have a real passion for aew and wanting it to succeed should really chill with talking shit about wwe/nxt and jumping the gun of claiming aew will be catching up with wwe main shows demos and ratings because it just creates more friction with fans of other promotions and and helps the reaffirm their stance of anti all things aew.
> 
> If other die hard fans of other promotions wants to hop into the aew forum and shit on the product out of an irrational hatred of the promotion then just allow them to lower themselves into looking like embarrassingly irrational wwe/tna etc.. fanboys..


Mate - if Dynamite starts competing with the 3rd hour of RAW - true, its weakest hour and true, not really a ’win‘ in the overall sense - but more a feather in the cap,

I’m gonna talk about it / but no malice intended - it is interesting if nothing else and puts away a lot of the ‘they’ll sink in a year’ conversations

because no matter what - if that happens, stuff will change in WWE - Vince would hate that - the optikk’s (scuse the pun) around it

but overall, Raw and smackdown will beat Dynamite for quite some time to come - hour 1 and 2 is not ‘easy beats’ by any stretch


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate - if Dynamite starts competing with the 3rd hour of RAW - true, its weakest hour and true, not really a ’win‘ in the overall sense - but more a feather in the cap,
> 
> I’m gonna talk about it / but no malice intended - it is interesting if nothing else and puts away a lot of the ‘they’ll sink in a year’ conversations
> 
> because no matter what - if that happens, stuff will change in WWE - Vince would hate that - the optikk’s (scuse the pun) around it
> 
> but overall, Raw and smackdown will beat Dynamite for quite some time to come - hour 1 and 2 is not ‘easy beats’ by any stretch


things will 100% change. WWE had no excuse during their shareholder meeting. It was actually quite embarrassing. It was executive garbo; they didn't express any plans. The shareholders sounded worried. HHH in a roundabout way said "Yes AEW are taking some of our market share away". 

We'll know tomorrow the extent of the damage.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> things will 100% change. WWE had no excuse during their shareholder meeting. It was actually quite embarrassing. It was executive garbo; they didn't express any plans. The shareholders sounded worried. HHH in a roundabout way said "Yes AEW are taking some of our market share away".
> 
> We'll know tomorrow the extent of the damage.


I was just listening to that lol. That was the most corporate response I've ever heard from both Vince and HHH. Things will definitely change come Fall though. Finally. They will have to rebuild from the ground up because just booking a better show won't help at this point. They don't have any stars or credible talent right now. No one to root for. They'll be doing a 1.1 and below rating when MNF comes back, which will be more than worrying for advertisers naturally. They are still the highest rated on the USA network with constant success in the demo so I doubt they ever get canceled, but those overall cable ad views are decreasing dramatically.


----------



## One Shed

Here is the thing, Dynamite SHOULD be beating RAW. Let me explain.

LOLCENAWINS chased off millions and millions of fans. Those that were left by the end of his run, and those that came back afterwards like me, were a sad fraction of its former self. Also, as everyone knows, the landscape of what is available has changed and how people choose to watch content has changed, cord cutters and all that. We understand that. My point is, the reasons WWE's ratings are down are multifaceted, but there is no doubt it is primarily a quality issue.

The main reason Dynamite has not beaten RAW is because of:

1. Built-in fan base and name recognition for 27 years, and much longer than that as a company brand. (I think this is objective)
2. AEW has put on a fairly schizophrenic show especially after the pandemic started. This has been caused by the "too many cooks in the kitchen" issue with different people with power having different visions. That is why so many of the segments feel like they are part of different shows. (My opinion).

Both products faced the same issues due to the pandemic, but AEW decided to hold off on major storylines, while WWE seemed not to. They still made Drew champ, they still went forward with Edge's big return match. I think it is too early to tell if one of these strategies was better than the other, but ratings for both shows (you can throw SmackDown and NXT in here too at this point) went down. My thinking on why WWE did not have an issue moving forward was because Vince and the writers were winging it long before COVID. We heard about the last minute rewrites long before we heard about COVID. So nothing really changed there honestly except the lack of crowds. Other than Rumble through Mania each year, WWE has not shown long term planning in a long time other than having a vague idea what their top feuds will be.

So yes, Dynamite should be and deserves to be beating RAW. WWE gave us the worst match ever presented on a PPV in the Street Profits vs Viking Raiders that appropriately ended in a dumpster. I WANT them to beat RAW! Why? Because that is the only way history has shown that Vince will change and try something new. Both major companies putting their best efforts forward helps both companies. It also helps the talent because they will get better deals.

And just like some on here call some of us "AEW haters," if I posted what I did above in the WWE forum, I would be called a "WWE hater" when all I am doing is pointing out why so many things WWE has done for so long suck and that I want them to get better.

So that brings this back full circle on why some of us get so annoyed when AEW does WWE-lite crap like having dumb, intelligence insulting so called comedy, a small child getting moves in on grown adults, a skinny goof in matches with your biggest star, a man covering himself in oil, etc. Next thing you know we will be getting dance gimmicks...oh wait we are already halfway there with Sonny Kiss! But no, this so different and fresh than the WWE! A true alternative!

So there should be no surprise that when they do stuff like that THEIR ratings go down too, just like WWE. With WWE, people just EXPECT the stupid at this point, which is why their ratings continue to go down every week while AEW's have been schizophrenic. You have to build something consistently good or bad for it to form a consistent pattern. WWE has been consistently bad (with 1-2 bright spots an episode) for a long time, hence the decline. AEW has put on amazing shows and really bad shows, so it should be no wonder why their ratings are inconsistent.

Before COVID, AEW had been building momentum. There was talk about Tony taking tighter reigns to get rid of some of the inconsistencies and it was working. Now that they look to finally be moving forward with their storylines, I HOPE the ratings improve and I HOPE they can get closer to RAW, because a serious product from them absolutely deserves to beat what RAW has been offering for years. I just wish so many people on here would stop excusing the dumb stuff they do just because AEW is the one doing it and then wonder why the ratings go back and forth when they put more than usual dumb on a show.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> I was just listening to that lol. That was the most corporate response I've ever heard from both Vince and HHH. Things will definitely change come Fall though. Finally. They will have to rebuild from the ground up because just booking a better show won't help at this point. They don't have any stars or credible talent right now. No one to root for. They'll be doing a 1.1 and below rating when MNF comes back, which will be more than worrying for advertisers naturally. They are still the highest rated on the USA network with constant success in the demo so I doubt they ever get canceled, but those overall cable ad views are decreasing dramatically.


How can it get a 1.1 rating when football returns when Raw is getting 0.48 rating? If anything Dynamite will further slide as well and lose viewers. As a matter of fact Dynamite has lost a bigger percentage of its viewers than Raw and Smackdown. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate - if Dynamite starts competing with the 3rd hour of RAW - true, its weakest hour and true, not really a ’win‘ in the overall sense - but more a feather in the cap,
> 
> I’m gonna talk about it / but no malice intended - it is interesting if nothing else and puts away a lot of the ‘they’ll sink in a year’ conversations
> 
> because no matter what - if that happens, stuff will change in WWE - Vince would hate that - the optikk’s (scuse the pun) around it
> 
> but overall, Raw and smackdown will beat Dynamite for quite some time to come - hour 1 and 2 is not ‘easy beats’ by any stretch


And you'll look foolish for doing so since you can't compare Raw's 3rd hour to Dynamite's overall viewership because thats pure stupidity. If you want to compare Raw and Dynamite then compare both shows' overall viewership and tv ratings. You know if compared Raw's overall tv ratings and viewership against Dynamite's Dynamite gets smashed everytime. 

Dynamite won't be competing with Raw and Smackdown ever. Dynamite will continue to lose viewers just like it has been for months. 

Things have already changed in WWE the last week with Vince McMahon saying WWE needs to create young stars so this delusion that Dynamite will compete with Raw and Smackdown needs to stop because thats not going to happen. 



optikk sucks said:


> things will 100% change. WWE had no excuse during their shareholder meeting. It was actually quite embarrassing. It was executive garbo; they didn't express any plans. The shareholders sounded worried. HHH in a roundabout way said "Yes AEW are taking some of our market share away".
> 
> We'll know tomorrow the extent of the damage.


Thats not what he said and its not even close to what he said. He never acknowledged AEW in his answer to the shareholders and said its new and exciting but won't be able to maintain that. So what he was saying is AEW maybe new and exciting to the iwc but its going to wear off and AEW is a flash in the pan.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Lheurch said:


> Here is the thing, Dynamite SHOULD be beating RAW. Let me explain.
> 
> LOLCENAWINS chased off millions and millions of fans. Those that were left by the end of his run, and those that came back afterwards like me, were a sad fraction of its former self. Also, as everyone knows, the landscape of what is available has changed and how people choose to watch content has changed, cord cutters and all that. We understand that. My point is, the reasons WWE's ratings are down are multifaceted, but there is no doubt it is primarily a quality issue.
> 
> The main reason Dynamite has not beaten RAW is because of:
> 
> 1. Built-in fan base and name recognition for 27 years, and much longer than that as a company brand. (I think this is objective)
> 2. AEW has put on a fairly schizophrenic show especially after the pandemic started. This has been caused by the "too many cooks in the kitchen" issue with different people with power having different visions. That is why so many of the segments feel like they are part of different shows. (My opinion).
> 
> Both products faced the same issues due to the pandemic, but AEW decided to hold off on major storylines, while WWE seemed not to. They still made Drew champ, they still went forward with Edge's big return match. I think it is too early to tell if one of these strategies was better than the other, but ratings for both shows (you can throw SmackDown and NXT in here too at this point) went down. My thinking on why WWE did not have an issue moving forward was because Vince and the writers were winging it long before COVID. We heard about the last minute rewrites long before we heard about COVID. So nothing really changed there honestly except the lack of crowds. Other than Rumble through Mania each year, WWE has not shown long term planning in a long time other than having a vague idea what their top feuds will be.
> 
> So yes, Dynamite should be and deserves to be beating RAW. WWE gave us the worst match ever presented on a PPV in the Street Profits vs Viking Raiders that appropriately ended in a dumpster. I WANT them to beat RAW! Why? Because that is the only way history has shown that Vince will change and try something new. Both major companies putting their best efforts forward helps both companies. It also helps the talent because they will get better deals.
> 
> And just like some on here call some of us "AEW haters," if I posted what I did above in the WWE forum, I would be called a "WWE hater" when all I am doing is pointing out why so many things WWE has done for so long suck and that I want them to get better.
> 
> So that brings this back full circle on why some of us get so annoyed when AEW does WWE-lite crap like having dumb, intelligence insulting so called comedy, a small child getting moves in on grown adults, a skinny goof in matches with your biggest star, a man covering himself in oil, etc. Next thing you know we will be getting dance gimmicks...oh wait we are already halfway there with Sonny Kiss! But no, this so different and fresh than the WWE! A true alternative!
> 
> So there should be no surprise that when they do stuff like that THEIR ratings go down too, just like WWE. With WWE, people just EXPECT the stupid at this point, which is why their ratings continue to go down every week while AEW's have been schizophrenic. You have to build something consistently good or bad for it to form a consistent pattern. WWE has been consistently bad (with 1-2 bright spots an episode) for a long time, hence the decline. AEW has put on amazing shows and really bad shows, so it should be no wonder why their ratings are inconsistent.
> 
> Before COVID, AEW had been building momentum. There was talk about Tony taking tighter reigns to get rid of some of the inconsistencies and it was working. Now that they look to finally be moving forward with their storylines, I HOPE the ratings improve and I HOPE they can get closer to RAW, because a serious product from them absolutely deserves to beat what RAW has been offering for years. I just wish so many people on here would stop excusing the dumb stuff they do just because AEW is the one doing it and then wonder why the ratings go back and forth when they put more than usual dumb on a show.


Excellent post but one minor correction Cena didn't "chase off" millions of fans since viewership increased while he was the top guy. Ratings went down but viewership increased. For instance Raw got a 3.81 rating with 3 million viewers in 2005 but Raw got 3.28 rating with 5 million viewers in 2010 so Cena brought in an extra 2 million viewers while he was the top guy. Hardcore wrestling fans seem to always think because they hated him and supposedly stopped watching because of him he some how chased off viewers but thats not the case. 

Dynamite's viewership and tv ratings has gone down to just Raw like you said but AEW fans will ignore that. 

Vince McMahon said last week that WWE will push and create new and young stars so things are already changing in WWE. 

AEW fans should want AEW to be its own thing instead of this "they'll be competing with WWE soon" or the "I want them to compete with WWE because Vince will 100% change the product." So really if they want these things to happen they're not really fans they just want to gloat about AEW someday beating WWE. 

AEW doesn't need to do WWE lite things like Orange Cassidy comedy acts since they've been losing viewers since October of last year.


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Here is the thing, Dynamite SHOULD be beating RAW. Let me explain.
> 
> LOLCENAWINS chased off millions and millions of fans. Those that were left by the end of his run, and those that came back afterwards like me, were a sad fraction of its former self. Also, as everyone knows, the landscape of what is available has changed and how people choose to watch content has changed, cord cutters and all that. We understand that. My point is, the reasons WWE's ratings are down are multifaceted, but there is no doubt it is primarily a quality issue.
> 
> The main reason Dynamite has not beaten RAW is because of:
> 
> 1. Built-in fan base and name recognition for 27 years, and much longer than that as a company brand. (I think this is objective)
> 2. AEW has put on a fairly schizophrenic show especially after the pandemic started. This has been caused by the "too many cooks in the kitchen" issue with different people with power having different visions. That is why so many of the segments feel like they are part of different shows. (My opinion).
> 
> Both products faced the same issues due to the pandemic, but AEW decided to hold off on major storylines, while WWE seemed not to. They still made Drew champ, they still went forward with Edge's big return match. I think it is too early to tell if one of these strategies was better than the other, but ratings for both shows (you can throw SmackDown and NXT in here too at this point) went down. My thinking on why WWE did not have an issue moving forward was because Vince and the writers were winging it long before COVID. We heard about the last minute rewrites long before we heard about COVID. So nothing really changed there honestly except the lack of crowds. Other than Rumble through Mania each year, WWE has not shown long term planning in a long time other than having a vague idea what their top feuds will be.
> 
> So yes, Dynamite should be and deserves to be beating RAW. WWE gave us the worst match ever presented on a PPV in the Street Profits vs Viking Raiders that appropriately ended in a dumpster. I WANT them to beat RAW! Why? Because that is the only way history has shown that Vince will change and try something new. Both major companies putting their best efforts forward helps both companies. It also helps the talent because they will get better deals.
> 
> And just like some on here call some of us "AEW haters," if I posted what I did above in the WWE forum, I would be called a "WWE hater" when all I am doing is pointing out why so many things WWE has done for so long suck and that I want them to get better.
> 
> So that brings this back full circle on why some of us get so annoyed when AEW does WWE-lite crap like having dumb, intelligence insulting so called comedy, a small child getting moves in on grown adults, a skinny goof in matches with your biggest star, a man covering himself in oil, etc. Next thing you know we will be getting dance gimmicks...oh wait we are already halfway there with Sonny Kiss! But no, this so different and fresh than the WWE! A true alternative!
> 
> So there should be no surprise that when they do stuff like that THEIR ratings go down too, just like WWE. With WWE, people just EXPECT the stupid at this point, which is why their ratings continue to go down every week while AEW's have been schizophrenic. You have to build something consistently good or bad for it to form a consistent pattern. WWE has been consistently bad (with 1-2 bright spots an episode) for a long time, hence the decline. AEW has put on amazing shows and really bad shows, so it should be no wonder why their ratings are inconsistent.
> 
> Before COVID, AEW had been building momentum. There was talk about Tony taking tighter reigns to get rid of some of the inconsistencies and it was working. Now that they look to finally be moving forward with their storylines, I HOPE the ratings improve and I HOPE they can get closer to RAW, because a serious product from them absolutely deserves to beat what RAW has been offering for years. I just wish so many people on here would stop excusing the dumb stuff they do just because AEW is the one doing it and then wonder why the ratings go back and forth when they put more than usual dumb on a show.


I agree with most of what you said here. AEW will be beating RAW soon enough. Mostly because of WWE's bullshit, but it will still be pretty monumental for a new company. They do have a built-in loyal fanbase, much like every wrestling promotion, that will always watch no matter what. And I do agree that AEW can be hit and miss sometimes, especially after March. There are a lot of ideas floating around in their backstage area, which is why I think Cody said they don't have an "identity" as of yet. They're trying a bunch of stuff and still signing talent. You can definitely tell that the show is still all over the place despite it still being great most of the time in my opinion. It looks like things are starting to smooth out though and hopefully they keep the momentum. With 2 more PPV's (Full Gear and Revolution) coming after All Out, I do see them staying consistent in better programming like we all want. They need to do something about those mid-summer months though.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> I agree with most of what you said here. AEW will be beating RAW soon enough. Mostly because of WWE's bullshit, but it will still be pretty monumental for a new company. They do have a built-in loyal fanbase, much like every wrestling promotion, that will always watch no matter what. And I do agree that AEW can be hit and miss sometimes, especially after March. There are a lot of ideas floating around in their backstage area, which is why I think Cody said they don't have an "identity" as of yet. They're trying a bunch of stuff and still signing talent. You can definitely tell that the show is still all over the place despite it still being great most of the time in my opinion. It looks like things are starting to smooth out though and hopefully they keep the momentum. With 2 more PPV's (Full Gear and Revolution) coming after All Out, I do see them staying consistent in better programming like we all want. They need to do something about those mid-summer months though.


AEW won't be beating Raw at anytime or point in the future.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW won't be beating Raw at anytime or point in the future.


Sure they will, but it won't be before 2023. I used to say 2027 but WWE is such a clusterfuck, I saw it happen with WCW, it is the same exact thing part 2.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> Sure they will, but it won't be before 2023. I used to say 2027 but WWE is such a clusterfuck, I saw it happen with WCW, it is the same exact thing part 2.


Lol by that time Raw's viewership and ratings would be much higher than they are now and Dynamite will be on a third rate channel airing to a couple thousand viewers. If anything's WCW 2.0 which I think you mean WCW 99-01 2.0 than thats AEW in a nutshell because soon enough NXT will start beating Dynamite every week. When? I don't know but it will happen.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> Lol by that time Raw's viewership and ratings would be much higher than they are now and Dynamite will be on a third rate channel airing to a couple thousand viewers. If anything's WCW 2.0 which I think you mean WCW 99-01 2.0 than thats AEW in a nutshell because soon enough NXT will start beating Dynamite every week. When? I don't know but it will happen.


LOL at Raws ratings being higher. They will never grow again. Its a dumpster fire. They can put the title on Lesnar or Cena and have a temporary growth but their overall curve is headed to the same cementary as WCW. Same thing as back then WCW could put Sting or Flair on TV and see a bump but a month later their overall was even lower than the year before. Same here.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> LOL at Raws ratings being higher. They will never grow again. Its a dumpster fire.


And Dynamite will never grow and has already lost majority of its audience in record time (9 months). Dynamite is the dunpster fire if anything. Raw will grow again but Dynamite will sink.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ozell Gray said:


> And Dynamite will never grow and has already lost majority of its audience in record time (9 months). Dynamite is the dunpster fire if anything. Raw will grow again but Dynamite will sink.


Yeah, they lost their audience in record time when they hit 600k in November of last year, given they just hit 845k, they aren't bleeding viewers anymore.

In fact, since the beginning of the year, AEW has lost it's audience the least through comparing now to before, and it's by a pretty wide margin.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Yeah, they lost their audience in record time when they hit 600k in November of last year, given they just hit 845k, they aren't bleeding viewers anymore.
> 
> In fact, since the beginning of the year, AEW has lost it's audience the least through comparing now to before, and it's by a pretty wide margin.


Nope they're still bleeding viewers since the average went down from 911,000 last year to 790,000 viewers now on average. Thats bleeding viewers left and right. 

Seriously dude? Dynamite has lost a bigger percentage of its audience than any other wrestling show on tv and thats in a short amount of time.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ozell Gray said:


> Nope they're still bleeding viewers since the average went down from 911,000 last year to 790,000 viewers now on average. Thats bleeding viewers left and right.
> 
> Seriously dude? Dynamite has lost a bigger percentage of its audience than any other wrestling show on tv and thats in a short amount of time.


Dude, there is a pandemic going on, pre-pandemic they were doing 800-950k, around the same amount, if not more they were doing in November/December. They just did 845k. They did there best number in FOUR MONTHS. Like bro, seriously? You are not this dumb, it's impossible.


----------



## Joe Gill

Today is a big day for AEW. Lets see if they can keep there momentum from last week. If they put on a similar show with a more serious and aggressive tone I think they will build on the ratings....but if they spend half the time doing cringe comedy and showcasing the little dweebs the ratings will falter throughout the show. I also want to see Eddie Kingston. He had a great debut last week... I might tune in just to see him tonight.


----------



## Dizzie

Ozell Gray said:


> And Dynamite will never grow and has already lost majority of its audience in record time (9 months). Dynamite is the dunpster fire if anything. Raw will grow again but Dynamite will sink.


Wow, your another one of those dudes that has such an irrational hatred for aew and just cant stand the idea of the promotion experience any type of success, get outside and get some fresh air dude, you need it haha.


----------



## Prosper

Joe Gill said:


> Today is a big day for AEW. Lets see if they can keep there momentum from last week. If they put on a similar show with a more serious and aggressive tone I think they will build on the ratings....but if they spend half the time doing cringe comedy and showcasing the little dweebs the ratings will falter throughout the show. I also want to see Eddie Kingston. He had a great debut last week... I might tune in just to see him tonight.


I don't know if he's 100% signed yet, but if he is, I think they should break up IC and have him join Santana and Ortiz.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Dude, there is a pandemic going on, pre-pandemic they were doing 800-950k, around the same amount, if not more they were doing in November/December. They just did 845k. They did there best number in FOUR MONTHS. Like bro, seriously? You are not this dumb, it's impossible.


No it wasn't. Pre-pandemic Dynamite was averaging 8i4,000 viewers which is a drop off from the 911,000 viewers it did in 2019. Thats ONE week with ONE number and thats not how it works. You go by averages not one week and say "they've bounced back guys" because thats not true since the average viewership is still going down.



Dizzie said:


> Wow, your another one of those dudes that has such an irrational hatred for aew and just cant stand the idea of the promotion experience any type of success, get outside and get some fresh air dude, you need it haha.


"Hatred"? Because I told the truth about Dynamite losing its audience in record time? Ok if you want a circlejerk filled with lies on here then go ahead but Im speaking facts.


----------



## Garty

I posted this earlier on in the thread, but I find it puzzling that no one from "that side", has disagreed, or spun, what Adam was explaining to the Host (an FYI for TV viewers in general) as to what drives the TV market in 2020. If you missed it, here you go... You're welcome.

Adam Carolla talks ratings vs demos
Start play at 3:10 through to 5:25... oh and try not to be distracted by the Host's, umm, big, umm, eyes. Yeah, eyes.


----------



## Dizzie

Ozell Gray said:


> No it wasn't. Pre-pandemic Dynamite was averaging 8i4,000 viewers which is a drop off from the 911,000 viewers it did in 2019. Thats ONE week with ONE number and thats not how it works. You go by averages not one week and say "they've bounced back guys" because thats not true since the average viewership is still going down.
> 
> 
> 
> "Hatred"? Because I told the truth about Dynamite losing its audience in record time? Ok if you want a circlejerk filled with lies on here then go ahead but Im speaking facts.


I didnt realise you had a time machine that can give an accurate prediction of aew supposedly doomed to sink.

As for supposedly losing their audience, your bashing that of the 1st night ratings, things like that always get that one off spike much like smackdowns first night on fox. 1 million is a fairer representation of aew's audience in the first few months.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ozell Gray said:


> No it wasn't. Pre-pandemic Dynamite was averaging 8i4,000 viewers which is a drop off from the 911,000 viewers it did in 2019. Thats ONE week with ONE number and thats not how it works. You go by averages not one week and say "they've bounced back guys" because thats not true since the average viewership is still going down.












That's every pre-pandemic number this year, how the fuck is that 814K?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dizzie said:


> I didnt realise you had a time machine that can give an accurate prediction of aew supposedly doomed to sink.
> 
> As for supposedly losing their audience, your bashing that of the 1st night ratings, things like that always get that one off spike much like smackdowns first night on fox. 1 million is a fairer representation of aew's audience in the first few months.


Funny because y'all are on here everyday talking about WWE's doomed so I gues y'all can see in the future too huh? 

No Im judging it off of the fact that the average viewership dropped from 911,000 last year to 790,000 average viewers now. Thats losing large amount of their audience and its more if you want to include the debut which makes worse.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RelivingTheShadow said:


> View attachment 89273
> 
> 
> That's every pre-pandemic number this year, how the fuck is that 814K?


The average pre-pandemic was 884,000 viewers and those numbers proves my point.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ozell Gray said:


> The average pre-pandemic was 884,000 viewers and those numbers proves my point.


And the year 1 average and two following weeks of over 1 million is inflated by the premiere. Do you really want me to do the same thing you're doing for Smackdown? 3.83 Million viewers week 1 and now 1.8-1.9 million?

911k is negligible given week 1-3 inflated that number, remove those and they are probably up.


----------



## Ozell Gray

So heres Dynamite average viewership and ratings

Dynamite 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating

10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating

10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating

10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating

10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating

11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating

11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating

11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating

11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating

12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating

12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating

12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Dynamite's average viewership in 2019 was 911,000 viewers and 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating

1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating

1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating

2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating

2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating

2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating

2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating

3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Pre-pandemic average viewership is 884,000 viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% drop in viewership and 15% drop in rating


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

You're not saying anything competent. The year 1 average is inflated do to the first 3 weeks, Smackdown would be the same.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RelivingTheShadow said:


> You're not saying anything competent. The year 1 average is inflated do to the first 3 weeks, Smackdown would be the same.



Dynamite 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating

10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating

10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating

10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating

10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating

11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating

11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating

11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating

11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating

12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating

12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating

12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Dynamite's average viewership in 2019 was 911,000 viewers and 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating

1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating

1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating

1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating

2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating

2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating

2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating

2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating

3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating

3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Pre-pandemic average viewership is 884,000 viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% drop in viewership and 15% drop in rating

You see a drop in the average for Dynamite in both the viewership and in the rstings.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ozell Gray said:


> And Dynamite will never grow and has already lost majority of its audience in record time (9 months). Dynamite is the dunpster fire if anything. Raw will grow again but Dynamite will sink.


% wise, Dynamite has lost less fans than Raw and Smackdown since the debut week. Next excuse please.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Oh that dude is just a troll lmao


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> % wise, Dynamite has lost less fans than Raw and Smackdown since the debut week. Next excuse please.


Actually Dynamite has lost MORE viewers and ratings than Raw and Smackdown percentsge wise. Dynamite went from 1.4 million viewers and 0.68 rating down to 777,000 viewers and 0.27 rating on average which is an over 40% drop in viewership and a 58% drop in the ratings. So yeah its lost more of its audience than Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh that dude is just a troll lmao


Such a troll I gave you the numbers and the average and you couldn't counter what I said so the troll is you since you don't have a clue on how to average things out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Legit, that 10 man horror show is gonna cost them tonight


----------



## A PG Attitude

It's asinine that people are using the debut show as a metric for lost viewers. A debut show is not indicative of the audience of that show. As Smackdown on Fox so clearly proved.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

A PG Attitude said:


> It's asinine that people are using the debut show as a metric for lost viewers. A debut show is not indicative of the audience of that show. As Smackdown on Fox so clearly proved.


Whys that? If the show was good people surely would've stuck around.

Take Seinfeld for example, their debut TV rating was a 15.4 then they did a 22.5 followed by 19's for the rest of season 1. Can you imagine if they did a 15.4 and then dropped down to a 7.7 only to explain it by "A debut show is not indicative of the audience we can bring". The TV execs would look at them like they had five heads.

Inb4 "One of the biggest TV shows of all time doesn't count!"

Lets take a look at the only real comparison. Impact from 2005 it's debut episode on Spike did a 0.8, week 2 did a 0.8, week 3 did a 0.8, week 4 did a 0.9. You can see continued growth (Admittedly some odd weeks the ratings go down) but 9 months into their tenure on Spike TNA was doing a 1.1 rating seeing a 0.3 increase and a minor increase in audience. This was with only a handful of major stars and a much lower budget as well.

Meanwhile, Wrestling Society X which admittedly was a bad wrestling show like AEW is most weeks started off with a 1.0 rating, dropped to a 0.9 rating the following week and then lost 700,000 viewers in 3 months. Sound familiar?

Real reason AEW lost viewers after it's debut is because the debut was unable to hook them nor were the shows afterwards.. I watched the first Dynamite episode on delay and was really underwhelmed by it all as well. I remember laughing at Jake Hager being their big reveal. I assure you I wasn't the only one.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Dude, I thought last nights show was DOG SHIT, only good thing was the MJF promo and tornado tag was pretty good.

Tag title match below the standard of an Omega/Hangman match, women's match was boring and 5 on 5 was a train wreck. Worst dynamite of the year, and easily the most disappointing wrestling show of 2020 given expectations were so high.

I imagine they will still kill NXT in the ratings, but I thought this week could've been a real statement week in delivering a quality show, but they totally dropped the ball.

Shame, I expect AEW to bounce back, but no defending that show.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Legit, that 10 man horror show is gonna cost them tonight


I'm not sure, i think we could have a surprise with which segments did good or bad.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> I'm not sure, i think we could have a surprise with which segments did good or bad.


Looking at google trends, which isn't a great barometer, but something to look at, Cody/Warhorse and MJF Promo were the big things.


----------



## RiverFenix

MLB back should cut into their ratings. NBA starting up soon will surely as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Dude, I thought last nights show was DOG SHIT, only good thing was the MJF promo and tornado tag was pretty good.
> 
> Tag title match below the standard of an Omega/Hangman match, women's match was boring and 5 on 5 was a train wreck. Worst dynamite of the year, and easily the most disappointing wrestling show of 2020 given expectations were so high.
> 
> I imagine they will still kill NXT in the ratings, but I thought this week could've been a real statement week in delivering a quality show, but they totally dropped the ball.
> 
> Shame, I expect AEW to bounce back, but no defending that show.


agreed

it was not good and deserves a 650 or thereabouts

everything was ‘off’

except, i liked the tag title and the main event - still only 35% of the show

the only thing we know for sure - next week or the following (as it is already taped next week) it’ll be better again. They seem to learn their lessons at least


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I'm not sure, i think we could have a surprise with which segments did good or bad.


i’m thinking they start high, lose viewers by bucketload during the 10 man and only recover by main event - but not enough to kick a good rating out


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m thinking they start high, lose viewers by bucketload during the 10 man and only recover by main event - but not enough to kick a good rating out


The quarters rating have always been strange.

Sometime things that we thought we're great did bad in the ratings and things that we didn't like did good.....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The quarters rating have always been strange.
> 
> Sometime things that we thought we're great did bad in the ratings and things that we didn't like did good.....


that is also very very true


----------



## TD Stinger

I expect another sizeable win for AEW, though maybe not with AEW getting as many viewers this week. Hope I'm wrong.

Hell, I'd love for both shows to rise and raise the combined audience.


----------



## Klitschko

750k is my guess


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Just as predicted. Good rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IamMark said:


> View attachment 89296



Good demo

the over 50s really tuning out now - down from 0.32 to 0.27

was thinking FTR and MJF will make them tune in - weird that it doesn’t

if we can climb that demo to the 0.35 range then we’re in business - shows like last night won’t help it though - need a recovery


----------



## Ozell Gray

So Dynamite lost 72,000 viewers this week and NXT gained 92,000 viewers this week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> So Dynamite lost 72,000 viewers this week and NXT gained 92,000 viewers this week.


And apparently it's a good thing.


----------



## Erik.

Decent.

Both combined beat Raw's third hour.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Pretty good.

Looking forward to the breakdown.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Good demo
> 
> the over 50s really tuning out now - down from 0.32 to 0.27
> 
> was thinking FTR and MJF will make them tune in - weird that it doesn’t
> 
> if we can climb that demo to the 0.35 range then we’re in business - shows like last night won’t help it though - need a recovery


lol fuck them, the focus needs to be on the female 18-49 demo. not only do you increase the final number, but you also get more advertising revenue


----------



## kazarn

They put on a damn near perfect show last week and lost viewers this week lol that can't be good


----------



## Prosper

Decent cable rating and demo. Disappointed in the overall cable viewership drop but naturally with a lower quality show you'll hold less viewers as the segments go on. I'm sure the Dark Order wasn't really appealing to cable viewers as that was also the case last week with their segments losing a lot. NXT recovered from last week too it seems.


----------



## Joe Gill

Last week Dynamite started with Kingston setting an aggressive tone with a great promo and old school match against Cody...and that set the momentum for the rest of the show. How did they follow it up this week? With a indy spotfest 5 on 5 goof match featuring guest appearance by Marko Stunt riding his dinosaur. When is Tony going to realize that Indy style wrestling with midgets and gymnastics doesnt draw tv audiences? Pisses me off because they had great momentum from last weeks bad ass show.....and followed it ip with Marko stunt, Orange Cassidy with his stupid kicks and little weiner Darby Allen with a staredown with the world champ to end the show. Sigh. Ditch the midgets.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> And apparently it's a good thing.


Thats always the narrative here. AEW losing viewers is good according to AEW fans even though losing viewers means the company's doing something wrong.


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats always the narrative here. AEW losing viewers is good according to AEW fans


So what?

Why does that bother you?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> lol fuck them, the focus needs to be on the female 18-49 demo. not only do you increase the final number, but you also get more advertising revenue


True true

i just find it interesting that they tuned out to that degree

0.32 - 0.27 is a big drop. It wasn’t their best show by far - but I definitely thought MJF would keep them with his ‘old school heel’ kick


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> And apparently it's a good thing.


Cheer up

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288249295779618817


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Decent cable rating and demo. Disappointed in the overall cable viewership drop but naturally with a lower quality show you'll hold less viewers as the segments go on. I'm sure the Dark Order wasn't really appealing to cable viewers as that was also the case last week with their segments losing a lot. NXT recovered from last week too it seems.


You take that back - Dark Order is money!

(yes, I’m joking... but yes, I also like them)


----------



## rbl85

The news show did really well, was there something big or important in the news ?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats always the narrative here. AEW losing viewers is good according to AEW fans even though losing viewers means the company's doing something wrong.


Did Impact reached 150k?


----------



## RainmakerV2

AEW had a chance to put the boot on NXTs neck after last week and then they offer a complete shit show of a first hour and a half.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Good demo
> 
> the over 50s really tuning out now - down from 0.32 to 0.27
> 
> was thinking FTR and MJF will make them tune in - weird that it doesn’t
> 
> if we can climb that demo to the 0.35 range then we’re in business - shows like last night won’t help it though - need a recovery


They probably got offended being told their demo didn't matter lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> And apparently it's a good thing.


Cheer up Chipper


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288246536967786496


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> True true
> 
> i just find it interesting that they tuned out to that degree
> 
> 0.32 - 0.27 is a big drop. It wasn’t their best show by far - but I definitely thought MJF would keep them with his ‘old school heel’ kick


Basically the only viewers they lost were 50+


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They probably got offended being told their demo didn't matter lol


There’s that too

gonna be interesting when Jericho reaches 50



rbl85 said:


> Basically the only viewers they lost were 50+


They lost 0.02 in the key demo

but with NBA starting up, that is a lot lower loss than I thought it would be


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

guys what are you on about? they lost a portion of the male 18-49 as well. 0.05. 

they gained in the young females.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW had a chance to put the boot on NXTs neck after last week and then they offer a complete shit show of a first hour and a half.


Cody vs Warhorse and Omega/Page vs Dark Order was far from a shit show my guy. Some people were interested in it and some weren't. Chill with the hyperbole.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Well they failed to keep momentum going, so a drop in the ratings was to be expected.

I’d say 773k is a fair number with how the show materialised.

They’ll continue to yo-yo between 700-900k, depending on the quality and selling points of the show.

Start of last week was gripping and deservingly maintained viewers.
Start of this week absolutely sucked and no doubt figures went up and down considerably throughout.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> guys what are you on about? they lost a portion of the male 18-49 as well. 0.05.
> 
> they gained in the young females.


that Warhorse effect with the females


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They lost 0.02 in the key demo
> 
> but with NBA starting up, that is a lot lower loss than I thought it would be


NBA starts real games tonight so we won't see effects until next week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Gonna be a boring thread - it all just kinda went as expected

guess i’ll give it over to the guys proclaiming ‘the worst ever’ for the rest of the week


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> guys what are you on about? they lost a portion of the male 18-49 as well. 0.05.
> 
> they gained in the young females.


Did young Guevara bring the bitches?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> NBA starts real games tonight so we won't see effects until next week.


ah, didn’t know

fair play


----------



## rbl85

I think it's going to be interesting to know with how much viewers they started.

I think they started the show with way less viewers than last week, i bet that they started with less than 850K.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not bad rating, around the average for the show.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> They lost 0.02 in the key demo
> 
> but with NBA starting up, that is a lot lower loss than I thought it would be


NBA is officially starting tonight. Previous games were just practice. It's next week that effect will be felt. Then playoff is when the real damage will be seen.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Did young Guevara bring the bitches?


the spanish sex god


----------



## MrThortan

Last night's show was average, though I still enjoyed it. Big Brother All Stars airs next Wednesday during AEW's second hour, though I am not sure if there is much crossover in the demo. I consider both trash tv (which I enjoy tbh) so I would assume there is at least a little. NBA is starting up too. I don't know if games air on Wed or not though. Hard to hit it out of the park with every show, and I assume the ratings will wax and wane. They have to just keep moving forward and building stories.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I hope Sammy bitch slaps Hardy right off tv

did you ever see a slower interference?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

it's crazy how far things have fallen since the attitude era, that we just expect sports to trump wrestling. back then it was wrestling > sports. crazy


----------



## Prosper

MrThortan said:


> Last night's show was average, though I still enjoyed it. Big Brother All Stars airs next Wednesday during AEW's second hour, though I am not sure if there is much crossover in the demo. I consider both trash tv (which I enjoy tbh) so I would assume there is at least a little. NBA is starting up too. I don't know if games air on Wed or not though. Hard to hit it out of the park with every show, and I assume the ratings will wax and wane. They have to just keep moving forward and building stories.


Most NBA games air on TNT I believe, so they should dodge a lot of those bullets


----------



## Ozell Gray

Erik. said:


> So what?
> 
> Why does that bother you?


It doesn't "bother" me but my comment struck a nerve in you I see.



ProjectGargano said:


> Did Impact reached 150k?


Last week it apparently did 163,000 viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> it's crazy how far things have fallen since the attitude era, that we just expect sports to trump wrestling. back then it was wrestling > sports. crazy


you can simulate as much drama as you like

but sports.... like good good, rivalry sports

hard to beat.

i think that is why they bring in more ‘real world’ stuff - like Cody says - a lot of fans are more interested in ’the business of the business’ - as seen in this thread

you’ll see more of mjf’s type of promos, ratings and all the rest - it gives realism and realistic drama to a fake sport


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cody vs Warhorse and Omega/Page vs Dark Order was far from a shit show my guy. Some people were interested in it and some weren't. Chill with the hyperbole.



It was a total shit show. The ten man match was a disaster and it doesnt help when Excalibur isnt there on commentary to put the indy shit over and Tony, Tazz, and JR are bascially just calling out how stupid the shit is. (Which, they aint wrong, but they're supposed to be getting the shit over, not burying it.) 

For all the talk about this Warhorse guy, I expected someone that maybe looked and worked more like a Wardlow or Brodie Lee, nope. This dude looks like a 16 year old who was watching Ultimate Warrior and Kiss at the same time and tried to combine them into a wrestling gimmick. The match goes 15 minutes because of course, with a bunch of nearfalls that no human could care about because we know who is going over.

The Dark Order sucks. Its always gonna suck, no matter how hard they try to make it not suck. Another 15 minute match where everyone knows whos going over. Yay. You talk shit about the collective all you want, but give me Brandi in skimpy outfits over these doofuses any day.

Shida has another bad match. For someone who is hyped as one of the best wrestlers in the world, she sure does have a lot of clunkers. Call it the opponents talent level if you want, but elite workers should bring the best out of the talent around them, and I dont see it. Plus, why do I care about her again? Whats her story? What am I invested in? Shes Japanese and the announcers tell me she wrestles well...okay.

Oh yeah, Zack Ryder and Cameron.

Then MJF and the main event try to make the save, but theres glaring storytelling problems to putting those segments back to back, and if you cant figure out what that is, Id be glad to tell ya.

And dont get me wrong. NXT blows too. I need to see Strong vs. Gargano in a 20 minute match or the UE kicking everyones ass again like I need a fucking root canal. People think because i mark for Kross, I like NXT. Uh, no.


----------



## rbl85

I would laugh so much if the MJF promo lost viewers XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I would laugh so much if the MJF promo lost viewers XD


I wouldn’t be shocked - we’ve seen now a lot of times promos lose viewers

and personally, I cared nothing for the ‘election’ presentation

its dumb


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT drew female 18-49 (last week: 0.1 this week 0.14). consistent male 18-49 (0.23 and 0.22).
AEW drew female 18-49 this week. lower male 18-49. Wondering if those males were lost to MLB.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> NXT drew female 18-49 (last week: 0.1 this week 0.14). consistent male 18-49 (0.23 and 0.22).
> AEW drew female 18-49 this week. lower male 18-49. Wondering if those males were lost to MLB.


That or the news.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> Last week it apparently did 163,000 viewers.


Thats a good rating. I'm sure that rating would be at least doubled if they were on a better channel.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> It was a total shit show. The ten man match was a disaster and it doesnt help when Excalibur isnt there on commentary to put the indy shit over and Tony, Tazz, and JR are bascially just calling out how stupid the shit is. (Which, they aint wrong, but they're supposed to be getting the shit over, not burying it.)
> 
> For all the talk about this Warhorse guy, I expected someone that maybe looked and worked more like a Wardlow or Brodie Lee, nope. This dude looks like a 16 year old who was watching Ultimate Warrior and Kiss at the same time and tried to combine them into a wrestling gimmick. The match goes 15 minutes because of course, with a bunch of nearfalls that no human could care about because we know who is going over.
> 
> The Dark Order sucks. Its always gonna suck, no matter how hard they try to make it not suck. Another 15 minute match where everyone knows whos going over. Yay. You talk shit about the collective all you want, but give me Brandi in skimpy outfits over these doofuses any day.
> 
> Shida has another bad match. For someone who is hyped as one of the best wrestlers in the world, she sure does have a lot of clunkers. Call it the opponents talent level if you want, but elite workers should bring the best out of the talent around them, and I dont see it. Plus, why do I care about her again? Whats her story? What am I invested in? Shes Japanese and the announcers tell me she wrestles well...okay.
> 
> Oh yeah, Zack Ryder and Cameron.
> 
> Then MJF and the main event try to make the save, but theres glaring storytelling problems to putting those segments back to back, and if you cant figure out what that is, Id be glad to tell ya.
> 
> And dont get me wrong. NXT blows too. I need to see Strong vs. Gargano in a 20 minute match or the UE kicking everyones ass again like I need a fucking root canal. People think because i mark for Kross, I like NXT. Uh, no.


A shitshow would entail what we see on Monday and Friday night. If this was a shitshow, then what would be the word for RAW/SD? Last night IMO was a decent 6-6.5/10.

- I 100% agree with you on the 10 man tag, it was a complete mess. These kinds of matches only work at Survivor Series where it's elimination style. They couldn't do that here because it would eat up too much TV time but these kinds of matches rarely ever go over well. I wish they never booked it in the first place. Next week's 12 man should be better just seeing as the talent in the match itself is better, but it's still gonna end up being a clusterfuck.

- You never looked him up before the match so naturally you're gonna go in with headcanon as to what you wanted. The match was doomed for you before it started. If you went into the match knowing that he was essentially a cruiserweight, you would have watched differently. The gimmick is actually pretty cool. We need more characters in wrestling. Nothing wrong with a Kiss and Ultimate Warrior mix. Gives off a Mad Max vibe where you had the mayhem and the guitarist stringing his guitar in the middle of it all (one of my favorite movie scenes ever lol). The match itself was pretty good.

-Yeah Dark Order sucks to most people from what I see, but the match itself was actually really good. Far from a "shitshow". Stu and Uno proved that they were better workers than most give them credit for. A "shitshow" tag match would be Viking Raiders vs Street Profits.

-Shida's match was bad but it's not like she hasn't had bangers with Nyla Rose and Penelope Ford. She's a great talent, it was just an off night. Even Io Shirai has had lackluster matches. Your girl Charlotte has shit the bed plenty of times.

-The MJF segment was great and the tornado tag was fun. Yeah there are some storyline inconsistencies, but does that make the entire final 30 minutes absolutely terrible just because Darby was announced to have a title match next week? That's some serious hyperbole and an over-reaction. Besides, we may get MJF complain about it next week, which would make it all make perfect sense. He's already booked for a follow up promo "update" segment to tonight so they may be doing it for storyline purposes. 

And yes NXT has the same issues as AEW when it comes to match lengths and booking decisions, but I don't think they even deserve some of the hate they get. There are people already blaming Kieth Lee for ratings which is ridiculous.


----------



## rbl85

I kind of get why they did the 10 men match.

Like this they were able to advance on multiple storylines but a 10 men tag match is so hard to pull off.


----------



## Hephaesteus

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cheer up Chipper
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288246536967786496


White girls off beat


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Thats a good rating. I'm sure that rating would be at least doubled if they were on a better channel.


USA should replace nxt with impact - would do same number in demo but come at fraction of cost


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> It doesn't "bother" me but my comment struck a nerve in you I see.


How have you come to that conclusion?

You're the one who seems annoyed that people enjoy a show you watch every week.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> it's crazy how far things have fallen since the attitude era, that we just expect sports to trump wrestling. back then it was wrestling > sports. crazy


i might be wrong but i think aew was beating nba in demo before. 
Mnf is something else as always has been.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Ozell Gray said:


> Last week it apparently did 163,000 viewers.


So less than half of AEW Dark viewers? Awesome.


----------



## 304418

Alright_Mate said:


> Start of last week was gripping and deservingly maintained viewers.
> Start of this week absolutely sucked and no doubt figures went up and down considerably throughout.


This basically sums it up. The opener sets the tone of the show, and last week's opener for AEW was far more effective and appealing to retain adults than what was done this week.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW has hit its ceiling.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> This basically sums it up. The opener sets the tone of the show, and last week's opener for AEW was far more effective and appealing to retain adults than what was done this week.


We will see but i highly doubt AEW started the show with the same amount of viewers than last week.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> So Dynamite lost 72,000 viewers this week and NXT gained 92,000 viewers this week.


And the combined viewership is nearly equal to RAW now.


----------



## Mike E

Its nice to see AEW staying in the top 10 rankings. Number 6 in the top 150 shows is pretty impressive and I'm sure TNT is very pleased to have the number 6 rated show.

I just hope next weeks show is a little more consistent. This weeks Dynamite had some highs and lows. I enjoyed about 50% of the show this week.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Erik. said:


> How have you come to that conclusion?
> 
> You're the one who seems annoyed that people enjoy a show you watch every week.


Except the comment wasn't about "enjoyment" of the show. It was about the viewership numbers that AEW fans love to spin every week. 

Its ok if AEW fans enjoy the shows that the company puts out but that wasn't what my or @Chip Chipperson were discussing.



ProjectGargano said:


> So less than half of AEW Dark viewers? Awesome.


Yeah but it did those numbers on a small network in 50 million homes so not really an accomplishment for AEW Dark which is on YouTube not tv. 



Seafort said:


> And the combined viewership is nearly equal to RAW now.


Thats not how works because those 700,000 viewers for both dhows aren't unique viewers. Its just 2 shows where the same 700,000 smarks are flipping back and forth between both shows. So in reality neither is close to Raw since Raw is getting 1.6 million viewers while these 2 barely can get 700,000 viewers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

kazarn said:


> They put on a damn near perfect show last week and lost viewers this week lol that can't be good


They weren't up against the Dodgers-Astros last week


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ozell Gray said:


> Its just 2 shows where the same 700,000 smarks are flipping back


If that were true, the demos would be the same you fucking retard. But they aren't. AEW has a young audience. NXT has an old one. Completely different groups. I'm about ready to put Ozell on ignore. I can't continue to read this amount of ignorance before breaking my computer.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Randy Lahey said:


> If that were true, the demos would be the same you fucking retard. But they aren't. AEW has a young audience. NXT has an old one. Completely different groups. I'm about ready to put Ozell on ignore. I can't continue to read this amount of ignorance before breaking my computer.


Except it is true and the demos isn't an argument against the fact that its the same 700,000 people watching both. AEW just gets more guys who are 47 years old of that bunch to watch while NXT gets the 58 year olds of that bunch to watch. Its really simple. You can put me on ignore break your computer but you'll be doing it because of your stupidity in your comments hence why you're mad now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Cheer up
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288249295779618817





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cheer up Chipper
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288246536967786496


Jokes on you guys. I actually like Sonny's dancing (As long as it stays off TV). Dude is a super talented dancer which makes me wonder why they insist on making his entire identity "Flamboyant gay guy"

Also, I wonder what QT Marshall would say about Scorp hanging out with his Mrs whilst he's in quarantine.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah but it did those numbers on a small network in 50 million homes so not really an accomplishment for AEW Dark which is on YouTube not tv.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not how works because those 700,000 viewers for both dhows aren't unique viewers. Its just 2 shows where the same 700,000 smarks are flipping back and forth between both shows. So in reality neither is close to Raw since Raw is getting 1.6 million viewers while these 2 barely can get 700,000 viewers.


I don't necessarily disagree, but are there proven metrics that show 90% or more of the audience for both shows is crossing over?


----------



## MoxAsylum

kazarn said:


> They put on a damn near perfect show last week and lost viewers this week lol that can't be good


They need to stop bowing to liberals. They need to stop pushing trash acts like Marko, Nyla, Sonny, etc....


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> A shitshow would entail what we see on Monday and Friday night. If this was a shitshow, then what would be the word for RAW/SD? Last night IMO was a decent 6-6.5/10.


The word I would use is similar


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> Most NBA games air on TNT I believe, so they should dodge a lot of those bullets


If they're airing normal schedule Wednesday games are ESPN


----------



## Ozell Gray

Seafort said:


> I don't necessarily disagree, but are there proven metrics that show 90% or more of the audience for both shows is crossing over?


Dave Meltzer whom AEW fans love has said himself a couple of times last year that its the same 700,000 people flipping back and forth between both shows.


----------



## rexmundi

This illustrates the channel flipping during commercials.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287212118207598593


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite's average viewership and ratings 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating
10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating
10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating
10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating
10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating
11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating
11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating
11/20/19 893,000 0.39 rating
11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating
12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating
12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating
12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Average viewership 911k viewers 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating
1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating
1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating
2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating
2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating
2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating
2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating
3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating
3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Average viewership 884k viewers and 0.33 rating Thats a 9% viewership drop and 8% drop in ratings

During pandemic
3/18/20 932,000 0.35 rating
3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating
4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating
4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27 rating
5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating
5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating
5/20/20 701,000 vieewers 0.26 rating
5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating
6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating
6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating
6/17/20 772,000 0.28 rating
6/24/20 633,000 0.22 rating
7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating
7/8/20 715,000 0.28 rating
7/15/20 788,000 0.29 rating
7/22/20 845,000 0.32 rating
7/29/20 773,000 0.30 rating

Overall viewership during the pandemic is 741,000 viewers and the overall ratings is 0.27 rating. Thats a 23% decrease in viewership and 18% decrease in ratings. 

Since the debut episode Dynamite has lost over 40% of its viewers and 58% of its ratings.


----------



## spiderguy252000

Chip Chipperson said:


> Jokes on you guys. I actually like Sonny's dancing (As long as it stays off TV). Dude is a super talented dancer which makes me wonder why they insist on making his entire identity "Flamboyant gay guy"
> 
> Also, I wonder what QT Marshall would say about Scorp hanging out with his Mrs whilst he's in quarantine.



To be fair, I'm not sure "they" insist on anything. If you follow Sonny on social media he is 100% the person he is on television. His entire "gimmick" is that he has no gimmick, he is only his truth.


----------



## One Shed

My guess is Q1 will rate quite high based on the way last week's show ended. Everyone was praising last week and looking forward to this week. There will likely be a dropoff after that, then will pick back up. Jericho will claim it was all him, which of course it was not. But he is a heel so he should.


----------



## Mister Sinister

As I said before, ratings indicate how well you set the hook last week. Last week had a bunch of indie wrestlers and little continuity. This week was a good episode. If they keep putting on shows with continuity from episode to episode (Mox appearing every week, women wrestling every week), the show will hold steady in the ratings. Unfortunately, next week will have two Dork Hoarders matches on the card and no women's matches. Whatever next week's rating is, the rating will go down again the week after because of the dearth of demographic variety.

Next week's current card says: All Elite White Dudes


----------



## kingfrass44

Mister Sinister said:


> As I said before, ratings indicate how well you set the hook last week. Last week had a bunch of indie wrestlers and little continuity. This week was a good episode. If they keep putting on shows with continuity from episode to episode (Mox appearing every week, women wrestling every week), the show will hold steady in the ratings. Unfortunately, next week will have two Dork Hoarders matches on the card and no women's matches. Whatever next week's rating is, the rating will go down again the week after because of the dearth of demographic variety.
> 
> Next week's current card says: All Elite White Dudes


You are wrong


----------



## One Shed

Mister Sinister said:


> As I said before, ratings indicate how well you set the hook last week. Last week had a bunch of indie wrestlers and little continuity. This week was a good episode. If they keep putting on shows with continuity from episode to episode (Mox appearing every week, women wrestling every week), the show will hold steady in the ratings. Unfortunately, next week will have two Dork Hoarders matches on the card and no women's matches. Whatever next week's rating is, the rating will go down again the week after because of the dearth of demographic variety.
> 
> Next week's current card says: All Elite White Dudes


Do you actually spend time thinking about someone's race before you can enjoy a wrestling match or become a fan of a wrestler?


----------



## bdon

Surprised we haven’t got any crazy celebrating GIFs today. Oh...wait...banned.


----------



## rbl85

AEW opened with 718K so that means that they in fact the grew in viewers XD

The biggest loss was the MJF segment just behind the women match

The high point of AEW was Omega/Page vs Dark Order.

Q1 :Inner Circle vs. Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus & Best Friends & Orange Cassidy match : 718K
Q2 : ending of the Inner Circle ten man tag and post-match, Jon Moxley interview and beginning of Cody vs. Warhorse : 721K 
Q3 : Cody vs. Warhorse, post-match with the debut of Matt Cardona and an Inner Circle interview. : 805K
Q4 : FTR contract signing with Arn Anderson and Adam Page and beginning of Omega & Page vs. Stu Grayson & Evil Uno : 832K
Q5 : for Omega & Page vs. Dark Order, and the post-match angle with The Young Bucks, FTR, Brodie Lee and others. : 878K
Q6 : Shida vs Diamante : 790K
Q7 : MJF promo : 720K
Q8 : Mox/Darby vs Cage/starks : 721K


----------



## 304418

Learning how the ratings broke down per quarter hour…

Inner Circle vs Best Friends, Orange Cassidy and Jurassic Express got beat by the women twice on Wednesday. First by the women’s tag bout in the NXT opener. And then again by Shida vs Diamante, including in the coveted 18-49 demo. And then Shida vs Diamante outperformed the AEW champion as well.

What I take from all of this is:


Warhorse is a draw
Shida & Diamante are draws, as is women’s wrestling
Hangman & Omega are draws, as is the Dark Order, surprisingly
Everyone is sick of the goofy stuff surrounding those that opened Dynamite this week
Cody is the only big name from WWE that draws. Viewers don’t really care about Jericho or Moxley anymore.
AEW needs to take the belt off of Moxley
Wrestling fans as a whole stopped watching both shows at about 9:30. Fatigue with both shows setting in?


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> Learning how the ratings broke down per quarter hour…
> 
> Inner Circle vs Best Friends, Orange Cassidy and Jurassic Express got beat by the women twice on Wednesday. First by the women’s tag bout in the NXT opener. And *then again by Shida vs Diamante, including in the coveted 18-49 demo. And then Shida vs Diamante outperformed the AEW champion as well.*
> 
> What I take from all of this is:
> 
> 
> Warhorse is a draw
> *Shida & Diamante are draws, as is women’s wrestling*
> Hangman & Omega are draws, as is the Dark Order, surprisingly
> Everyone is sick of the goofy stuff surrounding those that opened Dynamite this week
> Cody is the only big name from WWE that draws. Viewers don’t really care about Jericho or Moxley anymore.
> AEW needs to take the belt off of Moxley
> Wrestling fans as a whole stopped watching both shows at about 9:30. Fatigue with both shows setting in?


Did you smoke something ? 

They nearly lost 100K viewers in 15min ?

Also the only reason NXT do better in a lot of first Q1 is because of the lead in they with the show before NXT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> AEW opened with 718K so that means that they in fact the grew in viewers XD
> 
> The biggest loss was the MJF segment just behind the women match
> 
> The high point of AEW was Omega/Page vs Dark Order.


grew after that 10man?

now i’ve seen everything

you were right once again - the Qs make no sense 

but again, proven - promos don’t keep viewers, matches do. But promos are needed to advance stories

but aew being ‘match heavy’ is not a bad thing

All in all

Big draw Kenny teaming with Ratings Hangman fighting against super draw Dark Order was the real deal


----------



## Erik.

Damn at that drop for the womens match.

MJF losing viewers is funny.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Damn at that drop for the womens match.
> 
> MJF losing viewers is funny.


he’s telling the fanbase, who loves dives - that dives are shit

fuck that guy


----------



## Prosper

That's actually pretty surprising, they were actually gaining cable viewers all night until the women were on the screen. I thought for sure that Dark Order and the 10 man tag were the reason the viewership dropped but I guess I was wrong. They had a really good tag match for the gold though so I guess it isn't too shocking. Then MJF lost some viewers too. It's crazy that promos always make people tune out no matter how good they are. Maybe the show wasn't as bad to people as most of us, including me, originally thought.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> That's actually pretty surprising, they were actually gaining cable viewers all night until the women were on the screen. I thought for sure that Dark Order and the 10 man tag were the reason the viewership dropped but I guess I was wrong. They had a really good tag match for the gold though so I guess it isn't too shocking. Then MJF lost some viewers too. It's crazy that promos always make people tune out no matter how good they are.


everybody seems to not believe me - but Dark Order is getting a legit following

you can see the groundswell online


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> everybody seems to not believe me - but Dark Order is getting a legit following
> 
> you can see the groundswell online


Looks like you might have been right the whole time! lol


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> All in all
> 
> Big draw Kenny teaming with Ratings Hangman fighting against super draw Dark Order was the real deal


Kenny killing it in 2020.


----------



## Prosper

With the high being at 878K, that 773K average looks a lot better to me.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> That's actually pretty surprising, they were actually gaining cable viewers all night until the women were on the screen. I thought for sure that Dark Order and the 10 man tag were the reason the viewership dropped but I guess I was wrong. They had a really good tag match for the gold though so I guess it isn't too shocking. Then MJF lost some viewers too. It's crazy that promos always make people tune out no matter how good they are. Maybe the show wasn't as bad to people as most of us, including me, originally thought.


I don’t mind Dark Order in lower card segments, just like I don’t mind Orange Cassidy. They have their place, but I do fear that Jericho and Kenny have sort of bullshit ego trip going where they’re seeing who can get over the bigger joke: Cassidy or Dork Order.

Dark Order has really been focusing on Kenny and Hangman since the beginning of Dynamite. It has ramped up again in recent weeks with the Colt Cabana/Kenny BTE bits and Hangman/Brodie segments on BTE AND Dynamite.

End it soon please. Send Cassidy and Dork Order to the lower card where they belong and stop wasting talents on these fucks.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> I don’t mind Dark Order in lower card segments, just like I don’t mind Orange Cassidy. They have their place, but I do fear that Jericho and Kenny have sort of bullshit ego trip going where they’re seeing who can get over the bigger joke: Cassidy or Dork Order.
> 
> Dark Order has really been focusing on Kenny and Hangman since the beginning of Dynamite. It has ramped up again in recent weeks with the Colt Cabana/Kenny BTE bits and Hangman/Brodie segments on BTE AND Dynamite.
> 
> End it soon please. Send Cassidy and Dork Order to the lower card where they belong and stop wasting talents on these fucks.


It's kind of been up and down with Dark Order for the cable audience. The Hangman Page vs Five match lost almost 100K cable people, but this week the tag match gained like 80K of them. The DO do have their place, and I do like Brodie, but I do agree that they should be hanging around the mid-card away from the top stars. From the looks of that backstage segment where Dax didn't want to give back the title, the Omega/Page/FTR/Bucks thing is gonna really start heating up next week, so DO won't be involved with them after that going into All Out. 

TNT actually really loves Cassidy and he pushes a ton of merch, so pushing him is justified. The guy is over. Maybe not with some segments of the cable audience, but overall with their entire audience, he's pretty popular.


----------



## Joe Gill

The quarterly breakdown is roughly the average number of viewers per quarter... which is directly impacted by the previous quarter. The Dork order / Omega Page post match had 878k viewers (its actually more than that).... so the lead in for the beginning of the womans match had 878k viewers... and throughout the match viewers dropped off and the AVERAGE was 790k... which means by the end of match there was maybe 700k viewers. 
The lead in for MJF was really around 700k... and his segment averaged out to 720k...so it ended around 740k. 
You cant just look at the raw numbers... you have to put them in proper context and look at lead in...and also look at competition with NXT.


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW
Q1: Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Jurassic Express & Orange Cassidy – 718,000 viewers, 367,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of 10-man tag/Jon Moxley interview/Cody vs. Warhorse – 721,000 viewers (up 3,000), 358,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q3: End of Cody vs. Warhorse/Matt Cardona debut/Inner Circle interview – 805,000 viewers (up 84,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 48,000)
Q4: FTR Contract Signing/Dark Order vs. Hangman Page & Kenny Omega – 832,000 viewers (up 27,000), 423,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
Q5: End of Dark Order vs. Page & Omega/post-match including FTR and Young Bucks – 878,000 viewers (up 46,000), 455,000 in 18-49 (up 32,000)
Q6: Hikaru Shida vs Diamante/Vickie Guerrero & Nyla Rose interview – 790,000 viewers (down 88,000), 412,000 in 18-49 (down 43,000)
Q7: MJF Interview – 720,000 viewers (down 70,000), 382,000 in 18-49 (down 30,000)
Q8: Jon Moxley & Darby Allin vs. Brian Cage & Ricky Starks – 721,000 viewers (up 1,000), 360,000 in 18-49 (down 22,000)

NXT
Q1: Io Shirai & Tegan Nox vs. Dakota Kai & Candice LeRae – 853,000 viewers, 247,000 in 18-49
Q2: Adam Cole/Pat McAfee story recap/Roderick Strong vs. Johnny Gargano – 778,000 viewers (down 75,000), 248,000 in 18-49 (up 1,000)
Q3: End of Strong vs. Gargano/Dakota Kai & Rhea Ripley promo – 706,000 viewers (down 71,000), 243,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
Q4: Undisputed Era segment/Shotzi Blackheart vs. Mercedes Martinez – 703,000 viewers (down 3,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q5: Keith Lee promo & interruptions/Imperium vs. Ever-Rise – 698,000 viewers (down 5,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (up 1,000)
Q6: Imperium & Undisputed Era angle/Bronson Reed video/interviews – 662,000 viewers (down 36,000), 226,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Q7: Isaiah ‘Swerve’ Scott vs. Jake Atlas – 611,000 viewers (down 51,000), 194,000 in 18-49 (down 32,000)
Q8: Finn Balor vs. Dexter Lumis vs. Timothy Thatcher – 671,000 viewers (up 60,000), 230,000 in 18-49 (up 36,000)


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> Q1 :Inner Circle vs. Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus & Best Friends & Orange Cassidy match : 718K
> Q2 : ending of the Inner Circle ten man tag and post-match, Jon Moxley interview and beginning of Cody vs. Warhorse : 721K
> Q3 : Cody vs. Warhorse, post-match with the debut of Matt Cardona and an Inner Circle interview. : 805K
> Q4 : FTR contract signing with Arn Anderson and Adam Page and beginning of Omega & Page vs. Stu Grayson & Evil Uno : 832K
> Q5 : for Omega & Page vs. Dark Order, and the post-match angle with The Young Bucks, FTR, Brodie Lee and others. : 878K
> Q6 : Shida vs Diamante : 790K
> Q7 : MJF promo : 720K
> Q8 : Mox/Darby vs Cage/starks : 721K


Shida/Diamante made people turn off the TV, the women's division is atrocious and they would've gotten KILLED if they put tag matches featuring CAMERON on TV. MJF's quarter had two commercial breaks, so I don't think that's on him, this is a case we need minute by minute. 

Surprised Mox/Darby Vs Cage/Starks barley grew, but the other show had Finn Balor and he's a legit star so that might explain it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lol at blaming MJF for anything. Pretty obvious their horrendous womens division turned off about 150k people who never came back.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Not surprised the show bumped up in numbers during the FTR segment and Omega/Page vs Dark Order.

1) They were two of the better parts of the show
2) It was a title match
3) The storyline is building nicely

MJF though deserves better, it’s about time these indy gymnastics lovers realised how good he is


----------



## zkorejo

I hope these guys keep ratings out of their promos from now on. It makes them look like idiots when they lose viewers the next week.

Its not MJF's fault he lost viewers. Nobody should expect him to pull in big numbers all by himself. The guy has not even been on TV consistently for a year yet. He has had 2 meaningful feuds uptil now. Its cool that people want him as a champion already, which is a testament to how great he is, but he is nowhere near at the level everyone here is hyping him up to be. He needs time and good feuds like the one he had with Cody.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Verbatim17 said:


> Learning how the ratings broke down per quarter hour…
> 
> Inner Circle vs Best Friends, Orange Cassidy and Jurassic Express got beat by the women twice on Wednesday. First by the women’s tag bout in the NXT opener. And then again by Shida vs Diamante, including in the coveted 18-49 demo. And then Shida vs Diamante outperformed the AEW champion as well.
> 
> What I take from all of this is:
> 
> 
> Warhorse is a draw
> Shida & Diamante are draws, as is women’s wrestling
> Hangman & Omega are draws, as is the Dark Order, surprisingly
> Everyone is sick of the goofy stuff surrounding those that opened Dynamite this week
> Cody is the only big name from WWE that draws. Viewers don’t really care about Jericho or Moxley anymore.
> AEW needs to take the belt off of Moxley
> Wrestling fans as a whole stopped watching both shows at about 9:30. Fatigue with both shows setting in?


The women’s match had the largest quarter hour drop in the show. 

What the hell are you talking about? This proves women’s wrestling makes people stop watching and not come back


----------



## Prosper

zkorejo said:


> I hope these guys keep ratings out of their promos from now on. It makes them look like idiots when they lose viewers the next week.
> 
> Its not MJF's fault he lost viewers. Nobody should expect him to pull in big numbers all by himself. The guy has not even been on TV consistently for a year yet. He has had 2 meaningful feuds uptil now. Its cool that people want him as a champion already, which is a testament to how great he is, but he is nowhere near at the level everyone here is hyping him up to be. He needs time and good feuds like the one he had with Cody.


I think the more and more they have him do promos and have matches, the better his segments will do. The guy is still relatively new to the audience and it takes a while for guys to grow into their roles as notable talent. This World Title feud will do a lot of good for him.


----------



## zkorejo

prosperwithdeen said:


> I think the more and more they have him do promos and have matches, the better his segments will do. The guy is still relatively new to the audience and it takes a while for guys to grow into their roles as notable talent. This World Title feud will do a lot of good for him.


His feuds should definitely be more promo heavy like the one with Cody. Jungleboy one was more action oriented but it seems like an unfinished feud that they can revisit again soon. He aces the promos and is getting better in the ring, I want him to continue on this path. 

Just dont want him to win it already. First loss to an undefeated champion in Mox wont hurt him one bit.


----------



## Prosper

zkorejo said:


> His feuds should definitely be more promo heavy like the one with Cody. Jungleboy one was more action oriented but it seems like an unfinished feud that they can revisit again soon. He aces the promos and is getting better in the ring, I want him to continue on this path.
> 
> Just dont want him to win it already. First loss to an undefeated champion in Mox wont hurt him one bit.


Yeah with this week's promo and next weeks already booked "update" segment, we should get some great promo stuff from this feud. I personally don't care which way it goes. If MJF wins, then great, that would mean he keeps his undefeated streak and heels it up to the next level. If Moxley wins, then great, because I also like him as champion and as you said, it won't hurt MJF to lose to the top guy. I'll be happy with either outcome.


----------



## zkorejo

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah with this week's promo and next weeks already booked "update" segment, we should get some great promo stuff from this feud. I personally don't care which way it goes. If MJF wins, then great, that would mean he keeps his undefeated streak and heels it up to the next level. If Moxley wins, then great, because I also like him as champion and as you said, it won't hurt MJF to lose to the top guy. I'll be happy with either outcome.


I dont mind him winning either.. but then when his segments do less views, people will start turning on him. He is not an established name yet IMO.

It will put alot of pressure on the guy I think and if he fails as a champion, almost everyone here will sign him off and rising back to the top will not be as meaningful or special anymore esp. because he's a heel. It just seems like a very short-sighted WWE move, which is why I am not in the favor of it. If it happens.. I will hope it works out for him.


----------



## imthegame19

Verbatim17 said:


> Learning how the ratings broke down per quarter hour…
> 
> Inner Circle vs Best Friends, Orange Cassidy and Jurassic Express got beat by the women twice on Wednesday. First by the women’s tag bout in the NXT opener. And then again by Shida vs Diamante, including in the coveted 18-49 demo. And then Shida vs Diamante outperformed the AEW champion as well.
> 
> What I take from all of this is:
> 
> 
> Warhorse is a draw
> Shida & Diamante are draws, as is women’s wrestling
> Hangman & Omega are draws, as is the Dark Order, surprisingly
> Everyone is sick of the goofy stuff surrounding those that opened Dynamite this week
> Cody is the only big name from WWE that draws. Viewers don’t really care about Jericho or Moxley anymore.
> AEW needs to take the belt off of Moxley
> Wrestling fans as a whole stopped watching both shows at about 9:30. Fatigue with both shows setting in?



Haha what a hilarious ridiculous over reaction post. Zero of your points are correct.


----------



## One Shed

I am actually surprised the first segment was as low as it was given last week's episode and the anticipation. I mean, the segment deserved to get a horrible rating since it was the worst thing on the show, but I am still surprised.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's kind of been up and down with Dark Order for the cable audience. The Hangman Page vs Five match lost almost 100K cable people, but this week the tag match gained like 80K of them. The DO do have their place, and I do like Brodie, but I do agree that they should be hanging around the mid-card away from the top stars. From the looks of that backstage segment where Dax didn't want to give back the title, the Omega/Page/FTR/Bucks thing is gonna really start heating up next week, so DO won't be involved with them after that going into All Out.
> 
> TNT actually really loves Cassidy and he pushes a ton of merch, so pushing him is justified. The guy is over. Maybe not with some segments of the cable audience, but overall with their entire audience, he's pretty popular.


No. Being over with 600k isn’t being “over”. Selling some shirts isn’t being “over”. He belongs squarely in the midcard, pushing him as some kind of big star on that level has shown that the audience pushes back by Jericho actually losing viewers these days.

OC is a mid to lower card act. Fuck TNT’s dumb ideas. They don’t fucking understanding wrestling.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> No. Being over with 600k isn’t being “over”. Selling some shirts isn’t being “over”. He belongs squarely in the midcard, pushing him as some kind of big star on that level has shown that the audience pushes back by Jericho actually losing viewers these days.
> 
> OC is a mid to lower card act. Fuck TNT’s dumb ideas. They don’t fucking understanding wrestling.


Lmao they're paying the bills 😂 

Here's the source if you haven't seen it, take from it what you will: 

Tony Khan On How TNT Feels About Orange Cassidy - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lmao they're paying the bills 😂
> 
> Here's the source if you haven't seen it, take from it what you will:
> 
> Tony Khan On How TNT Feels About Orange Cassidy - Wrestling Inc.


Oh, I’ve seen it. Doesn’t mean you have to fucking agree with it or pretend to understand the madness. You are far too intelligent @prosperwithdeen to believe Orange Cassidy is deserving of being involved in the main event scene, certainly not as currently presented. Evolve and show more of those Superman punches and less play kicks and stupid shit, then I could see it.

He hasn’t evolved, and thus, he’s been having his segments absolutely destroyed, multiple segments taking a nearly 300k loss in the quarter hour...in shows that average roughly 1.4 million combined. That’s ridiculous.

You know he’s midcard at best. Don’t pretend he is main event caliber or belongs in long matches with Jericho, Kenny, Cody, Moxley, etc.


----------



## rexmundi

rbl85 said:


> Did you smoke something ?
> 
> They nearly lost 100K viewers in 15min ?
> *
> Also the only reason NXT do better in a lot of first Q1 is because of the lead in they with the show before NXT.*


Undeniably correct. NXT has the benefit of NCIS as a lead in. Last week they opened with 1 Million viewers and rapidly shed them. This week Nxt retained more of the lead but then plummeted until the final quarter. AEW has a weaker lead so they normally come out of the gates slower but usually manage to win the night. Good on Omega/Page and Uno/Grayson for topping the night this week in viewers and demo.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Q5 would have been even higher if they had ordered the card as I did with the TNT title match at 8pm. The Q5 pop in the rating shows a peak fluidity of viewers stopping on AEW at 8pm (regardless if the match has two guys most people have never seen). AEW needs to put a women's match at 8pm next week with Ford, Diamante, Priscilla Kelly and Ivelisse.

I see the MJF fans are trying to defend the stupidity of pushing someone who has only been on television for a year (and hardly once a month) and offers no demographic appeal. It's just such an indie character. Nobody likes the rich kid gimmick. EC3 only made it work as the fictional billionaire heir to the TNA owners (once upon a time).



rbl85 said:


> Q1 :Inner Circle vs. Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus & Best Friends & Orange Cassidy match : 718K
> Q2 : ending of the Inner Circle ten man tag and post-match, Jon Moxley interview and beginning of Cody vs. Warhorse : 721K
> Q3 : Cody vs. Warhorse, post-match with the debut of Matt Cardona and an Inner Circle interview. : 805K
> Q4 : FTR contract signing with Arn Anderson and Adam Page and beginning of Omega & Page vs. Stu Grayson & Evil Uno : 832K
> Q5 : for Omega & Page vs. Dark Order, and the post-match angle with The Young Bucks, FTR, Brodie Lee and others. : 878K
> Q6 : Shida vs Diamante : 790K
> Q7 : MJF promo : 720K
> Q8 : Mox/Darby vs Cage/starks : 721K


The message is to keep the promos short, enforce tag wrestling rules in tag matches and stop doing garbage wrestling.

*I hope this is the death of garbage wrestling.*



Verbatim17 said:


> Learning how the ratings broke down per quarter hour…
> 
> Inner Circle vs Best Friends, Orange Cassidy and Jurassic Express got beat by the women twice on Wednesday. First by the women’s tag bout in the NXT opener. And then again by Shida vs Diamante, including in the coveted 18-49 demo. And then Shida vs Diamante outperformed the AEW champion as well.
> 
> What I take from all of this is:
> 
> Shida & Diamante are draws, as is women’s wrestling


I've been saying it for months. Women wrestling attracts new viewers that aren't already watching. Shida and Ford drew for them several weeks ago, and this is the first time we have had Shida back on television since. It's ridiculous that AEW management doesn't care about making money or ratings. Next week's card thus far has no women's matches. There should be two. They draw better than half the men.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Oh, I’ve seen it. Doesn’t mean you have to fucking agree with it or pretend to understand the madness. You are far too intelligent @prosperwithdeen to believe Orange Cassidy is deserving of being involved in the main event scene, certainly not as currently presented. Evolve and show more of those Superman punches and less play kicks and stupid shit, then I could see it.
> 
> He hasn’t evolved, and thus, he’s been having his segments absolutely destroyed, multiple segments taking a nearly 300k loss in the quarter hour...in shows that average roughly 1.4 million combined. That’s ridiculous.
> 
> You know he’s midcard at best. Don’t pretend he is main event caliber or belongs in long matches with Jericho, Kenny, Cody, Moxley, etc.


I have never said he belongs anywhere near the main event, I would also prefer for him to be mid-card. At the same time though, I don't really mind the Jericho program as it has been entertaining for me personally. Sometimes having comedy acts mix it in with top guys can be fun to watch. I liked their Fyter Fest match. I see this the same way that I saw Hurricane vs The Rock in their program or Goldust and Booker T, Lesnar vs Zach Gowen, or even Triple H vs Eugene. All ridiculous feuds/pairings that ended up working in the end. 

After Jericho, he should definitely go back down the card though, and I'm sure he will.


----------



## bdon

@prosperwithdeen 


prosperwithdeen said:


> I have never said he belongs anywhere near the main event, I would also prefer for him to be mid-card. At the same time though, I don't really mind the Jericho program as it has been entertaining for me personally. Sometimes having comedy acts mix it in with top guys can be fun to watch. I liked their Fyter Fest match. I see this the same way that I saw Hurricane vs The Rock in their program or Goldust and Booker T, Lesnar vs Zach Gowen, or even Triple H vs Eugene. All ridiculous feuds/pairings that ended up working in the end.
> 
> After Jericho, he should definitely go back down the card though, and I'm sure he will.


Well, we’re in agreement. I thought you were suggesting Brodie and Dark Order wasn’t main event and OC was.


----------



## rbl85

Mister Sinister said:


> The message is to keep the promos short, enforce tag wrestling rules in tag matches and stop doing garbage wrestling.
> 
> *I hope this is the death of garbage wrestling.*
> 
> 
> 
> I've been saying it for months. Women wrestling attracts new viewers that aren't already watching. Shida and Ford drew for them several weeks ago, and this is the first time we have had Shida back on television since. It's ridiculous that AEW management doesn't care about making money or ratings. Next week's card thus far has no women's matches. There should be two. They draw better than half the men.


What the fuck are you talking about ?

A lot of people tuned out during the women match....


----------



## Mister Sinister

It's stupid to say that the women don't draw when they beat the main event and the opener of the show by 70k viewers. You guys are ignoring the value of the timeslot of the tag title match which played a bigger role in the spike than who was on screen. If anything, it's the tag match that didn't hold the viewers that stopped for a minute on TNT at 8pm. For all we know, the minute by minute shows that 1.3 million people stopped on TNT at 8pm and then changed the channel after five minutes.

What matters is that the women held 790k people for 15 minutes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

On garbage wrestling:

I feel like when it's done properly it can be a ratings winner. For example, you have two guys absolutely wanting to tear one another apart and one finally says fuck it and issues a challenge but he doesn't want the referee to stop the beating so he wants the other guy to agree to it being no disqualification/falls count anywhere/whatever

They then proceed to fight because they have personal issues in a heavily hyped main event. Winner winner chicken dinner.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> It's stupid to say that the women don't draw when they beat the main event and the opener of the show by 70k viewers. You guys are ignoring the value of the timeslot of the tag title match which played a bigger role in the spike than who was on screen. If anything, it's the tag match that didn't hold the viewers that stopped for a minute on TNT at 8pm. For all we know, the minute by minute shows that 1.3 million people stopped on TNT at 8pm and then changed the channel after five minutes.
> 
> What matters is that the women held 790k people for 15 minutes.


I’m so confused. Are you talking about the tag tornado main event, or the tag title match?


----------



## rbl85

Mister Sinister said:


> It's stupid to say that the women don't draw when they beat the main event and the opener of the show by 70k viewers. You guys are ignoring the value of the timeslot of the tag title match which played a bigger role in the spike than who was on screen. If anything, it's the tag match that didn't hold the viewers that stopped for a minute on TNT at 8pm. For all we know, the minute by minute shows that 1.3 million people stopped on TNT at 8pm and then changed the channel after five minutes.
> 
> What matters is that the women held 790k people for 15 minutes.


You don't know how ratings works do you ?


----------



## K4L318

Mister Sinister said:


> It's stupid to say that the women don't draw when they beat the main event and the opener of the show by 70k viewers. You guys are ignoring the value of the timeslot of the tag title match which played a bigger role in the spike than who was on screen. If anything, it's the tag match that didn't hold the viewers that stopped for a minute on TNT at 8pm. For all we know, the minute by minute shows that 1.3 million people stopped on TNT at 8pm and then changed the channel after five minutes.
> 
> What matters is that the women held 790k people for 15 minutes.


yo let me be on da real. I didnt see MJF's promo until yesterday. I missed it cuz I saw dat Cameron chick and Vickie. I changed dat channel at dat time. 
Then I watched MJF's promo this morning cuz peeps were talkin bout it. And I hate dat I missed it. But it aint my fault they put a diva division segment and I broke da fuck out.


----------



## 304418

rbl85 said:


> Did you smoke something ?
> 
> They nearly lost 100K viewers in 15min ?
> 
> Also the only reason NXT do better in a lot of first Q1 is because of the lead in they with the show before NXT.





Randy Lahey said:


> The women’s match had the largest quarter hour drop in the show.
> 
> What the hell are you talking about? This proves women’s wrestling makes people stop watching and not come back





imthegame19 said:


> Haha what a hilarious ridiculous over reaction post. Zero of your points are correct.


Considering how many times the AEWwomen have had the lowest ratings week after week, and this week they beat the AEW champion shows that the audience isn’t feeling the main event scene. And that is a big deal since the champion is the top guy and should be drawing the most viewers. But he managed to get upstaged by the women’s champion.

The NXT women beat a legend in Jericho in total viewers, and to their credit, it was a great tag match. AEW usually wins the opening segment and that they not only lost, but also lost with Jericho is genuinely surprising. Not only because of his new Demo God gimmick, but Jericho actually being the biggest ratings draw in AEW at one time when he Le Champion, and him considering the NXT stars to be nobodies.

But keep proving MJF right about wrestling fans. Its clear that this week was full of Demo Goddesses in both NXT and AEW.



Mister Sinister said:


> I've been saying it for months. Women wrestling attracts new viewers that aren't already watching. Shida and Ford drew for them several weeks ago, and this is the first time we have had Shida back on television since. It's ridiculous that AEW management doesn't care about making money or ratings. Next week's card thus far has no women's matches. There should be two. They draw better than half the men.


Women really are underestimated as draws in AEW. I really do not know why though. AEW should be pushing anyone that can actually draw and create new viewers for the company.


----------



## TheDraw

Ask yourself this......does AEW beating WWE in the demo show how good AEW is or does that show how far the WWE has declined?

I mean, it only took a global pandemic, zero crowd in the arena, and some of the worst WWE programming in their history with no real top guy for it to happen.


Sorry to rain on the parade but ya know....just saying.


----------



## Wolf Mark

LifeInCattleClass said:


> grew after that 10man?
> 
> now i’ve seen everything
> 
> you were right once again - the Qs make no sense
> 
> but again, proven - promos don’t keep viewers, matches do. But promos are needed to advance stories
> 
> but aew being ‘match heavy’ is not a bad thing


It was the opposite duing the Monday Night Wars, the biggest rated segments were promos. But these were stellar promos linked to popular storylines and the numbers were on another level, not AEW/NXT level.


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> I’m so confused. Are you talking about the tag tornado main event, or the tag title match?


8pm central. Q5 was always a spot for a big promo or match in the Monday Night Wars because everyone knew that television viewers were changing the channel at 8pm.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

prosperwithdeen said:


> That's actually pretty surprising, they were actually gaining cable viewers all night until the women were on the screen. I thought for sure that Dark Order and the 10 man tag were the reason the viewership dropped but I guess I was wrong. They had a really good tag match for the gold though so I guess it isn't too shocking. Then MJF lost some viewers too. It's crazy that promos always make people tune out no matter how good they are. Maybe the show wasn't as bad to people as most of us, including me, originally thought.


it was like a 6 or 7 for us casuals lol

I got called out for not ripping the episode apart lol I guess alot of people saw it like I did.While it wasnt on par with the near perfect episode if the previous week,there were some good matches mixed with character debuts and some storyline furthering it was far from a bad episode.


----------



## imthegame19

TheDraw said:


> Ask yourself this......does AEW beating WWE in the demo show how good AEW is or does that show how far the WWE has declined?
> 
> I mean, it only took a global pandemic, zero crowd in the arena, and some of the worst WWE programming in their history with no real top guy for it to happen.
> 
> 
> Sorry to rain on the parade but ya know....just saying.


Not raining on any parade. AEW Dynamite is a top rated cable tv show on Wednesday nights. Even with going up against competition for same audience. It doesn't matter what WWE doing or indie Impact crap. AEW is very successful rated show right now. Thanks for trolling though.



Verbatim17 said:


> Considering how many times the AEWwomen have had the lowest ratings week after week, and this week they beat the AEW champion shows that the audience isn’t feeling the main event scene. And that is a big deal since the champion is the top guy and should be drawing the most viewers. But he managed to get upstaged by the women’s champion.
> 
> The NXT women beat a legend in Jericho in total viewers, and to their credit, it was a great tag match. AEW usually wins the opening segment and that they not only lost, but also lost with Jericho is genuinely surprising. Not only because of his new Demo God gimmick, but Jericho actually being the biggest ratings draw in AEW at one time when he Le Champion, and him considering the NXT stars to be nobodies.
> 
> But keep proving MJF right about wrestling fans. Its clear that this week was full of Demo Goddesses in both NXT and AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Women really are underestimated as draws in AEW. I really do not know why though. AEW should be pushing anyone that can actually draw and create new viewers for the company.


You don't get how these minute by minute ratings work and how much commercial breaks effect them. Not to mention there's competition from another show. So if NXT has good main event it's going to steal some of those viewers.


Three way match with some stakes. Might interest people more then tag match. Which got about 10 minute with commercial break before the match in the quarter and during the match(that brought the quarter down). Also Jericho was never the ratings draw he was made out to be. His stuff only drew big with Cody and Moxley.


Stuff he did with Darby, Scorpio Sky and Jungle Boy. Did very similar to what Jericho is doing now even as champion. Not to mention Moxley vs Cage two weeks ago just did big number for them. So that blows away your ridiculous theory lol.


Mox is one of the top minute by minute draws and stuff is on average the most viewed on Youtube. That is why they put title on him and made him the guy.But 

MJF claiming he did better minute by minute numbers then Mox was him lying. That was the point of the promo to be a politician and lie and get heat(using out of touch Cornette lines). Cody even tweeted saying those ratings numbers were widely inaccurate. So don't get yourself worked up in a work.


----------



## Prosper

TheDraw said:


> Ask yourself this......does AEW beating WWE in the demo show how good AEW is or does that show how far the WWE has declined?
> 
> I mean, it only took a global pandemic, zero crowd in the arena, and some of the worst WWE programming in their history with no real top guy for it to happen.
> 
> 
> Sorry to rain on the parade but ya know....just saying.


You do realize the pandemic effects AEW too don’t you?


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> You do realize the pandemic effects AEW too don’t you?


Yes and I think even more so. Look at the champ Moxley. Him coming through the crowd to huge reaction makes him come off as big star. Now he's walking through empty arena. Not to mention the reaction missed from all the debuts. Matt Cardona, FTR, Matt Hardy and others debuts would have felt way bigger and different with a crowd.



Joe Gill said:


> The quarterly breakdown is roughly the average number of viewers per quarter... which is directly impacted by the previous quarter. The Dork order / Omega Page post match had 878k viewers (its actually more than that).... so the lead in for the beginning of the womans match had 878k viewers... and throughout the match viewers dropped off and the AVERAGE was 790k... which means by the end of match there was maybe 700k viewers.
> The lead in for MJF was really around 700k... and his segment averaged out to 720k...so it ended around 740k.
> You cant just look at the raw numbers... you have to put them in proper context and look at lead in...and also look at competition with NXT.


That's kinda right but not fully true. According to Wade Keller the Woman's match averaged 819,000 viewers. The commercial break is what killed the quarter for MJF. His segment started at 653,000 but minute to minute his segment averaged 779,000. The tornado tag match was also hurt by two commercial breaks in the last quarter. So it did a lot better then 721,000 viewers as well. So yes MJF segment lost viewers compared to woman's match. But at same time you gotta compare it's competition.


----------



## Bosnian21

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289308146444300288
MJF did basically outdraw Moxley last night. practically tied in overall viewers but MJF’s peak was about 35k higher. Also beat Moxley in 18-49 by about 80k viewers.

All this and MJF had the disadvantage of coming right after the women’s match, which turned a lot of people away.


----------



## shandcraig

I just wanna say i just saw an AEW add on tinder😂


----------



## K4L318

imthegame19 said:


> That's kinda right but not fully true. According to Wade Keller the Woman's match averaged 819,000 viewers. The commercial break is what killed the quarter for MJF. His segment started at 653,000 but minute to minute his segment averaged 779,000. The tornado tag match was also hurt by two commercial breaks in the last quarter. So it did a lot better then 721,000 viewers as well. So yes MJF segment lost viewers compared to woman's match. But at same time you gotta compare it's competition.


bruh I aint into this rating shit, so ya telling me dat Fuckadackle killed dem? who put dat on TV?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> While it wasnt on par with the near perfect episode if the previous week,there were some good matches mixed with character debuts and some storyline furthering it was far from a bad episode.


The show from last week was "near perfect" for you? Okay, granted it was one of the best AEW had put on in a while I'd say it was far from perfect.

If that really passes as the perfect episode of wrestling TV I'd encourage you with no malice at all to head on over to WWE Network and watch the WWE or WCW when it was hot. Even old school territory wrestling...


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> That's kinda right but not fully true. According to Wade Keller the Woman's match averaged 819,000 viewers. The commercial break is what killed the quarter for MJF. His segment started at 653,000 but minute to minute his segment averaged 779,000. The tornado tag match was also hurt by two commercial breaks in the last quarter. So it did a lot better then 721,000 viewers as well. So yes MJF segment lost viewers compared to woman's match. But at same time you gotta compare it's competition.


It's strange to see so much fluctuation, in my country when we start watching something we watch it until the end.


----------



## imthegame19

Bosnian21 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289308146444300288
> MJF did basically outdraw Moxley last night. practically tied in overall viewers but MJF’s peak was about 35k higher. Also beat Moxley in 18-49 by about 80k viewers.
> 
> All this and MJF had the disadvantage of coming right after the women’s match, which turned a lot of people away.


Moxley match had much bigger disadvantage. Woman match did big numbers. But commercial break brought MJF segment way down. Moxley had two commercial breaks to bring his segment down. MJF also had weak competition on NXT vs 3 way match.



rbl85 said:


> It's strange to see so much fluctuation, in my country when we start watching something we watch it until the end.


Yeah according to Wade Keller. Moxley entered the arena inheriting 662K from the commercial break (which dipped as low as 526K). Then it shot up 735K for the 2nd minute of Q8. It went all the way up to 768k. Then when they went to split screen they dropped from 768K to 710K, to 645K, to 634K, during commercial split screen and then rose quickly to 721K, 721K, 777K, and 778K for the finish.


So based off the data it didn't really turn away viewers like the numbers show and either did MJF segment. AEW and NXT just have a lot of same audience going back and forth. So the commercial breaks cause huge drops. Thats why quarter one is often highest rated quarter. Which why there's no doubt AEW ratings. That's also why you need to factor in competition in minute by minute as well. Wade Keller tweeted this...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289424747424624642
I guess this is why we shouldn't be experts judging who's over or not by quarter breakdowns. TNT and AEW have these numbers and I'm sure systems to break this all down the best.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> The show from last week was "near perfect" for you? Okay, granted it was one of the best AEW had put on in a while I'd say it was far from perfect.
> 
> If that really passes as the perfect episode of wrestling TV I'd encourage you with no malice at all to head on over to WWE Network and watch the WWE or WCW when it was hot. Even old school territory wrestling...


I know you enjoy being snarky but literally everyone on these boards was praising that episode as what AEW should and could be.I get you like to act cooler then people and have slick opinions ,but really it's getting old.You're starting to come off as a hipster lol.

Territory wrestling does nothing for me.

I've already watched everything wcw has to offer watched that when it happened,same can be said for WWE,anything outside AE can't hold my attention.Im watching AEW because I love it maybe you should watch something else because no wrestling production will give you exactly what you want.


----------



## Garty

K4L318 said:


> bruh I aint into this rating shit, so ya telling me dat Fuckadackle killed dem? who put dat on TV?


No disrespect in any way whatsoever, but man, your stuff is getting harder to read. Are you using some type of special keyboard, or a particular app to type?  It's alright if you talk like that out in the real world, it doesn't matter to me in the least. However, to read your words though, is a completely different exercise, like mental gymnastics of the brain. 

Anyway, it's


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Garty said:


> No disrespect in any way whatsoever, but man, your stuff is getting harder to read. Are you using some type of special keyboard, or a particular app to type?  It's alright if you talk like that out in the real world, it doesn't matter to me in the least. However, to read your words though, is a completely different exercise, like mental gymnastics of the brain.
> 
> Anyway, it's


He has the ebonics keyboard lmfao


----------



## Garty

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I know you enjoy being snarky but literally everyone on these boards was praising that episode as what AEW should and could be.I get you like to act cooler then people and have slick opinions ,but really it's getting old.You're starting to come off as a hipster lol.
> 
> Territory wrestling does nothing for me.
> 
> I've already watched everything wcw has to offer watched that when it happened,same can be said for WWE,anything outside AE can't hold my attention.Im watching AEW because I love it maybe you should watch something else because no wrestling production will give you exactly what you want.


_"Hey, don't tell me what I can and can't watch!"
"Don't tell me not to talk about it if I haven't watched it!"
"I just have to read about it and know that the show sucked!"
"Where's your proof?"
"You're just making shit up now!"
"Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janella"
"Why are they still on TV?"
"There's too much comedy!"
"I'm done with the stupid company!"
"They've lost half their audience!"
"Wait until NXT comes back, you'll see"
"They'll be off the air before WrestleMania!"
"Okay, they'll be off the air towards the end of summer"
"An extended 5-Year, $45 Million per, TV contract, is nothing to be excited about!"
"No one in that company knows what they're doing!"
"The inmates are running the asylum!"
"Well, you can die on that hill if you want to"_

Did I get them all? I'm sure there are a few missing, but these are the most "go-to" phrases used. Yup, same  every day!


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

_Walks in_

A solid rating for AEW? Awesome. 

_Walks Out_


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I know you enjoy being snarky but literally everyone on these boards was praising that episode as what AEW should and could be.I get you like to act cooler then people and have slick opinions ,but really it's getting old.You're starting to come off as a hipster lol.
> 
> Territory wrestling does nothing for me.
> 
> I've already watched everything wcw has to offer watched that when it happened,same can be said for WWE,anything outside AE can't hold my attention.Im watching AEW because I love it maybe you should watch something else because no wrestling production will give you exactly what you want.


Yeah, I praised it as well. It was a good episode but it wasn't close to perfect and anyone suggesting so really just needs to get a broader knowledge base of this great sport. I don't like to "act cooler" (especially on a wrestling forum) but if I come across that way that's fine. I assure you I am no cooler or less cool than anyone else on this forum.

By the way, aren't you the guy that within his first 50 posts talked about how much of a bad ass MMA guy he was and how you kicked trees in Thailand? I'd suggest that you yourself are attempting to be "cool" and projecting onto me.

Nothing can hold your interest except Attitude Era pretty much explains the love of AEW. They're redoing it gimmicks, characters and everything else.



Garty said:


> _"Hey, don't tell me what I can and can't watch!"
> "Don't tell me not to talk about it if I haven't watched it!"
> "I just have to read about it and know that the show sucked!"
> "Where's your proof?"
> "You're just making shit up now!"
> "Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss, Joey Janella"
> "Why are they still on TV?"
> "There's too much comedy!"
> "I'm done with the stupid company!"
> "They've lost half their audience!"
> "Wait until NXT comes back, you'll see"
> "They'll be off the air before WrestleMania!"
> "Okay, they'll be off the air towards the end of summer"
> "An extended 5-Year, $45 Million per, TV contract, is nothing to be excited about!"
> "No one in that company knows what they're doing!"
> "The inmates are running the asylum!"
> "Well, you can die on that hill if you want to"_
> 
> Did I get them all? I'm sure there are a few missing, but these are the most "go-to" phrases used. Yup, same  every day!


17 quotes and I think I've only ever said four of them.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I praised it as well. It was a good episode but it wasn't close to perfect and anyone suggesting so really just needs to get a broader knowledge base of this great sport. I don't like to "act cooler" (especially on a wrestling forum) but if I come across that way that's fine. I assure you I am no cooler or less cool than anyone else on this forum.
> 
> By the way, aren't you the guy that within his first 50 posts talked about how much of a bad ass MMA guy he was and how you kicked trees in Thailand? I'd suggest that you yourself are attempting to be "cool" and projecting onto me.
> 
> Nothing can hold your interest except Attitude Era pretty much explains the love of AEW. They're redoing it gimmicks, characters and everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 17 quotes and I think I've only ever said four of them.



Weren't you the guy that replied to my first post here calling me an alt account and a paid poster??You've definently had a condescending attitude since the jump,and I'm far from the only one getting that vibe.

You can try and mock me all you like I fully enjoyed that episode of dynamite,you on the other hand can't enjoy anything lmao what a sad life.I tried watching that NWA stuff and it's just hokey and bad.I'm going to enjoy Dynamite regardless of your thoughts.Its very apparent you will never be happy with the product anyway.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Best episode of wrestling TV I have ever seen was the Raw after Mania 14. Top to bottom, every segment had major league purpose. That was at the very end of WCWs dominance in the ratings, WWF was making up ground at a very fast pace by that point and watching those shows illustrates why.


----------



## Mister Sinister

According to Wade Keller, the women gained 80k viewers during their QH. The women's match average was 819k. Women can draw.

The problem with the main event right now is not Mox. The problem is they keep putting guys that aren't draws in programs with Mox. Mox vs PAC-- that's a program I can get invested in. Their top contenders include Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Darbie Allin and MJF. Who the fuck are any of these guys to the mass audience? None of them have carried TNA or WWE in the past. Mox needs programs with former world champions like Bill Goldberg, James Storm, Aries and Aldis, or they need to build up someone with potential like Fenix who can be believable and brings a different audience.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> According to Wade Keller, the women gained 80k viewers during their QH. The women's match average was 819k. Women can draw.
> 
> The problem with the main event right now is not Mox. The problem is they keep putting guys that aren't draws in programs with Mox. Mox vs PAC-- that's a program I can get invested in. Their top contenders include Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Darbie Allin and MJF. Who the fuck are any of these guys to the mass audience? None of them have carried TNA or WWE in the past. Mox needs programs with former world champions like Bill Goldberg, James Storm, Aries and Aldis, or they need to build up someone with potential like Fenix who can be believable and brings a different audience.


I said this just after Full Gear when it became obvious that A) Cody “can’t” challenge for the title and B) Omega vs Moxley was done for the time being.

As you are building your next world champion, you MUST also be building a credible antagonist that has an obvious date with destiny. Moxley and MJF, while good, have no reason to tear the fans at the seams. You must compel the audience to pick a side.
A Yin to the Yang. Good vs Evil.

And while MJF is a clear prick, Moxley is NOT the clear cut babyface, and even worse, they have booked him as less important than Cody and Jericho in the singles division.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> I said this just after Full Gear when it became obvious that A) Cody “can’t” challenge for the title and B) Omega vs Moxley was done for the time being.
> 
> As you are building your next world champion, you MUST also be building a credible antagonist that has an obvious date with destiny. Moxley and MJF, while good, have no reason to tear the fans at the seams. You must compel the audience to pick a side.
> A Yin to the Yang. Good vs Evil.
> 
> *And while MJF is a clear prick, Moxley is NOT the clear cut babyface, and even worse, they have booked him as less important than Cody and Jericho in the singles division.*


It’s starting to not even feel that way anymore. Before it definitely did feel like he was 2nd place to Jericho and Cody, but now he is feeling like the main guy more and more every week. This is the 3rd Dynamite in a row that he will be main eventing, the MJF/Mox program will obviously be the top feud, and he has been getting a lot more promo time as of late. Moxley/Cage felt like a heavyweight main event that you had to see, and a lot of people felt that, which is why the match drew so well.

Moxley is definitely a clear cut babyface, anyone who watches Moxley knows to cheer him and have no reason to boo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Mister Sinister said:


> According to Wade Keller, the women gained 80k viewers during their QH. The women's match average was 819k. Women can draw.
> 
> The problem with the main event right now is not Mox. The problem is they keep putting guys that aren't draws in programs with Mox. Mox vs PAC-- that's a program I can get invested in. Their top contenders include Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Darbie Allin and MJF. Who the fuck are any of these guys to the mass audience? None of them have carried TNA or WWE in the past. Mox needs programs with former world champions like Bill Goldberg, James Storm, Aries and Aldis, or they need to build up someone with potential like Fenix who can be believable and brings a different audience.


To be fair, they're trying to use Moxley, given that he's by far the biggest draw on the card, as a way of getting spotlight on the lesser known guys. Even when he feuds with guys no one knows about, the vast majority of the time he still outdraws everyone on the roster by a wide margin. Look at the quarter hour numbers he's done against guys like Spears, Janela, Trent, Kazarian, the singles match with Allin, Brian Cage, etc.

Granted, the feud with Brodie was just a flat out mistake. People know Brodie, they just don't care about him (yet that was still the feud with by far the most buzz at DON.)

The MJF feud is perfect because it's going to get him a ton of attention once they start doing segments together, and MJF is a great promo. If they do this right and put the title on him, he's going to be a star. MJF has already shown a lot of drawing potential, gaining 100K+ in more than one quarter hour, which is something only Moxley, Jericho, and Cody have done.

I'm glad they will actually be using Moxley's star power to build someone with talent.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Mister Sinister said:


> According to Wade Keller, the women gained 80k viewers during their QH. The women's match average was 819k. Women can draw.
> 
> The problem with the main event right now is not Mox. The problem is they keep putting guys that aren't draws in programs with Mox. Mox vs PAC-- that's a program I can get invested in. Their top contenders include Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Darbie Allin and MJF. Who the fuck are any of these guys to the mass audience? None of them have carried TNA or WWE in the past. Mox needs programs with former world champions like Bill Goldberg, James Storm, Aries and Aldis, or they need to build up someone with potential like Fenix who can be believable and brings a different audience.


Yes sir, fuck MJF, give that spot to Austin Aries or James Storm. Much better idea. All Out will break AEW buyrate records.


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes sir, fuck MJF, give that spot to Austin Aries or James Storm. Much better idea. All Out will break AEW buyrate records.


I am half convinced he IS Austin Aries at this point. He mentions him every third post or so. NO ONE on here wants to see that tiny dude and locker room cancer anywhere near AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I am half convinced he IS Austin Aries at this point. He mentions him every third post or so. NO ONE on here wants to see that tiny dude and locker room cancer anywhere near AEW.


@Mister Sinister ? - yep, dude is def Aries

GTFO Aries! Go hang out with Griff Garrison!!


----------



## rbl85

The August 19 episode will air on saturday august 22 at 6pm
The August 26 episode will air on Thursday, August 27 at 8PM. 
The september 16 episode will air on Thursday 17 at 8pm


----------



## Aedubya

rbl85 said:


> The August 19 episode will air on saturday august 22 at 6pm
> The August 26 episode will air on Thursday, August 27 at 8PM.
> The september 16 episode will air on Thursday 17 at 8pm


What's this?


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> What's this?


NBA


----------



## Mister Sinister

AEWMoxley said:


> To be fair, they're trying to use Moxley, given that he's by far the biggest draw on the card, as a way of getting spotlight on the lesser known guys. Even when he feuds with guys no one knows about, the vast majority of the time he still outdraws everyone on the roster by a wide margin. Look at the quarter hour numbers he's done against guys like Spears, Janela, Trent, Kazarian, the singles match with Allin, Brian Cage, etc.
> 
> Granted, the feud with Brodie was just a flat out mistake. People know Brodie, they just don't care about him (yet that was still the feud with by far the most buzz at DON.)
> 
> The MJF feud is perfect because it's going to get him a ton of attention once they start doing segments together, and MJF is a great promo. If they do this right and put the title on him, he's going to be a star. MJF has already shown a lot of drawing potential, gaining 100K+ in more than one quarter hour, which is something only Moxley, Jericho, and Cody have done.
> 
> I'm glad they will actually be using Moxley's star power to build someone with talent.


They aren't going to put the title on MJF and there is no plus in doing so. He doesn't expand the demographic like a Fenix or Sky.



Lheurch said:


> I am half convinced he IS Austin Aries at this point. He mentions him every third post or so. NO ONE on here wants to see that tiny dude and locker room cancer anywhere near AEW.


I doubt many wrestlers are on this board. I am not one. I've mentioned Goldberg and Tessa more than Aries on here, and I've mentioned James Storm as much as Aries. Aries and Storm are both proven workers who have been in front of more people than everyone on the roster who isn't from the WWE. When people talk about getting non-WWE talent-- there you go, the TNA guys that are out there that aren't with Impact or WWE right now (and NWA isn't coming back this year).

It's ridiculous that you have these guys that can deliver never before seen matches like Storm and Aries can with AEW's top guys, and they are signing dudes that are jobbers and no-names.


rbl85 said:


> The August 19 episode will air on saturday august 22 at 6pm
> The August 26 episode will air on Thursday, August 27 at 8PM.
> The september 16 episode will air on Thursday 17 at 8pm


We're getting a Thursday night experiment after all thanks to the NBA.


----------



## Klitschko

I think a move to Thursdays will help them get those ratings up if they advertise the change well enough. Unless of course NXT also moves to Thursday all of a sudden


----------



## TD Stinger

Klitschko said:


> I think a move to Thursdays will help them get those ratings up if they advertise the change well enough. Unless of course NXT also moves to Thursday all of a sudden


Thursday is NBA night for TNT most of the year. They air every week on Thursday during the regular season and sometimes on Tuesday. Now right now the NBA schedule is different because they're just now coming back and using a different schedule.

But once things go back to normal, Tuesday and and especially Thursday are occupied with NBA action. And with Raw and SD on Monday and Friday respectively, Wednesday is really their only option on TNT.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Raw Smackdown said:


> _Walks in_
> 
> A solid rating for AEW? Awesome.
> 
> _Walks Out_














TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes sir, fuck MJF, give that spot to Austin Aries or James Storm. Much better idea. All Out will break AEW buyrate records.


Well a program against James Storm would be awesome. Esp. if it last for a few months and they exchange the title back and forth like Rock and Foley did in 1999. I think it would actually be great for Moxley to get that kind of experience from someone like Storm. 

Esp. since to me it's too early to throw MJF into that. I don't want him to get close to the World title until AEW has all their tools together, before people are back, before MJF can really win it and carry the company. It is way too early now.


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> It’s starting to not even feel that way anymore. Before it definitely did feel like he was 2nd place to Jericho and Cody, but now he is feeling like the main guy more and more every week. This is the 3rd Dynamite in a row that he will be main eventing, the MJF/Mox program will obviously be the top feud, and he has been getting a lot more promo time as of late. Moxley/Cage felt like a heavyweight main event that you had to see, and a lot of people felt that, which is why the match drew so well.
> 
> Moxley is definitely a clear cut babyface, anyone who watches Moxley knows to cheer him and have no reason to boo.


Yeah after 3 week viewership loses to NXT when Moxley was off the show due to Renee having Covid. They've used Moxley right the last 3 weeks and they obviously will this week. With Mox/Darby title match and MJF stuff. 


I'm not sure why he wasn't used much during the month of June. But it appears Tony Khan heard the complaints about the lack of Moxley on the shows. Since he's been featured as much as Jericho or Cody lately.



Klitschko said:


> I think a move to Thursdays will help them get those ratings up if they advertise the change well enough. Unless of course NXT also moves to Thursday all of a sudden


AEW always going to be on Wednesday long term. With AEW not wanting to do Monday vs NFL and TNT having NBA on Tuesday and Thursday. But if NXT does way better these weeks not having to go up against AEW. Maybe they tell Vince we need to move NXT to Tuesday or Thursday. 

Really it would be best interest for USA to do so. Since AEW growing and doing better rating. Will likely bring down the price of WWE programming in next tv deals. Vince knows this though. So he will probably fight to keep NXT head to head vs AEW as much as he can.


----------



## Not Lying

Mister Sinister said:


> According to Wade Keller, the women gained 80k viewers during their QH. The women's match average was 819k. Women can draw.


How is this even possible?

this was the ratings breakdown



> Q1: Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Jurassic Express & Orange Cassidy – 718,000 viewers, 367,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of 10-man tag/Jon Moxley interview/Cody vs. Warhorse – 721,000 viewers (up 3,000), 358,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
> Q3: End of Cody vs. Warhorse/Matt Cardona debut/Inner Circle interview – 805,000 viewers (up 84,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 48,000)
> Q4: FTR Contract Signing/Dark Order vs. Hangman Page & Kenny Omega – 832,000 viewers (up 27,000), 423,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
> Q5: End of Dark Order vs. Page & Omega/post-match including FTR and Young Bucks – 878,000 viewers (up 46,000), 455,000 in 18-49 (up 32,000)
> Q6: Hikaru Shida vs Diamante/Vickie Guerrero & Nyla Rose interview – *790,000 viewers (down 88,000)*, 412,000 in 18-49 *(down 43,000)*
> Q7: MJF Interview – 720,000 viewers (down 70,000), 382,000 in 18-49 (down 30,000)
> Q8: Jon Moxley & Darby Allin vs. Brian Cage & Ricky Starks – 721,000 viewers (up 1,000), 360,000 in 18-49 (down 22,000)


Maybe you misheard him? 

the women have gained viewers before, but not last week I guess, but when highlighted like Penepole Ford vs Shida.
Last week's Dark special episode, besides Sammy's return, the women's matches of Abadon and Penelope Ford have almost double the views for Archer/Wardlow/ the tag 3-way.


----------



## rbl85

AEW Getting Extra Time On TNT To Hype All Out


AEW had to rearrange their schedule due to the NBA. This will shuffle around fans' schedules a bit, but it won't be all bad for the company. They are




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## TKO Wrestling

imthegame19 said:


> Really it would be best interest for USA to do so. Since AEW growing and doing better rating. Will likely bring down the price of WWE programming in next tv deals. Vince knows this though. So he will probably fight to keep NXT head to head vs AEW as much as he can.


Thats super interesting, I have never thought about it that way.


----------



## imthegame19

The Definition of Technician said:


> How is this even possible?
> 
> this was the ratings breakdown
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you misheard him?
> 
> the women have gained viewers before, but not last week I guess, but when highlighted like Penepole Ford vs Shida.
> Last week's Dark special episode, besides Sammy's return, the women's matches of Abadon and Penelope Ford have almost double the views for Archer/Wardlow/ the tag 3-way.


He said that was what the quarter did when the match was going on based off minute by minute. See these quarter breakdowns are very flawed. Because commercial breaks and whatever else going on can bring quarter down a lot.


Which is why MJF promo really gained viewers. So did the main event. Which gain viewers returning from commercial break then lost viewers with commercial break mid match and gained viewers again leading up to the finish.


With commercial breaks and other junk going on. The quarters only did 720 and 721 overall. This also why the opening quarter is often highest rated quarter. Since it usually doesn't include a commercial break.


Having NXT/AEW head to head causes huge shift in ratings whenever the shows go to commerical. For example the final quarter with the main event had minutes in the 550-650 range during commercial breaks. While the match finished in the 780s in minute by minute. Overall the average was 721 because huge drops in commercial breaks to put on NXT main event. Which was strong enough this week to take away some of AEW viewers. Who decided that was more interesting match then tag match.


----------



## Not Lying

imthegame19 said:


> He said that was what the quarter did when the match was going on based off minute by minute. See these quarter breakdowns are very flawed. Because commercial breaks and whatever else going on can bring quarter down a lot.
> 
> 
> Which is why MJF promo really gained viewers. So did the main event. Which gain viewers returning from commercial break then lost viewers with commercial break mid match and gained viewers again leading up to the finish.
> 
> 
> With commercial breaks and other junk going on. The quarters only did 720 and 721 overall. This also why the opening quarter is often highest rated quarter. Since it usually doesn't include a commercial break.
> 
> 
> Having NXT/AEW head to head causes huge shift in ratings whenever the shows go to commerical. For example the final quarter with the main event had minutes in the 550-650 range during commercial breaks. While the match finished in the 780s in minute by minute. Overall the average was 721 because huge drops in commercial breaks to put on NXT main event. Which was strong enough this week to take away some of AEW viewers. Who decided that was more interesting match then tag match.


Damn that's some big shift. That's cool. Thanks for the info. 

So if I understand correctly, Wade Keller has the info for the minute by minute breakdowns of AEW? that's quite interesting


----------



## Mister Sinister

The Definition of Technician said:


> How is this even possible?
> 
> this was the ratings breakdown
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you misheard him?
> 
> the women have gained viewers before, but not last week I guess, but when highlighted like Penepole Ford vs Shida.
> Last week's Dark special episode, besides Sammy's return, the women's matches of Abadon and Penelope Ford have almost double the views for Archer/Wardlow/ the tag 3-way.


Wade posted some minute by minute info on Twitter. It's a little confusing, but I believe he meant that they peaked with 80k viewers gained at one point in their match. I wasn't keeping track of what QHs had commercials.

Overall, for the quarter hour of the women's match (with two lesser known women wrestlers who are both women of color) held more viewers than the remaining two quarter hours.


----------



## rbl85

The thing is during 1min you can have +90K then the next minute -100K etc, etc....


----------



## Aedubya

I'll go 0.77
Just edging WWE


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uhmmm.....

725 - 0.29 in demo


----------



## DaSlacker

I'll predict 720 for AEW and 660 for NXT


----------



## Chan Hung

Predict AEW 760,000 NXT 670,000


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464017991655428

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I think it'll be close lads. Lets get this party started.


----------



## IamMark

AEW 5th 901k-0.36 
NXT 27th 753k-0.20


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Heyaaa almost a million for the AE Dubs. Congrats to all of you except Optikk. Magnificent news.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Oh wow, that's a fucking solid number.


----------



## Peerless

Moxley the draw lets get it!

I assume his title match and the debate did the best numbers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Peerless said:


> Moxley the draw lets get it!
> 
> I assume his title match and the debate did the best numbers.


Yeah, big papa Mox definitely a huge ratings draw for AEW. Hopefully he has a match next week. Could hit a million again.


----------



## AEW_19

Both shows back to pre-covid numbers this week. Wednesday's are slowly taking over


----------



## EmbassyForever

Bischoff + TNT = RATINGZ.


----------



## Pippen94

Damn!!!


----------



## MrThortan

Wow! I was not expecting those numbers. #5 in the demo is really good. Will have to see how the time changes affect the ratings in the next couple weeks.


----------



## RapShepard

Up high as hell


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW killed it, great to see, it was an awesome show yesterday.


----------



## taker1986

Wow, that's awesome. Only a matter of time before they get over 1 million. NXT did well too, they got about what I expected AEW to get this week, both shows did a good rating.


----------



## One Shed

They managed to kill it vs the NBA. Great number!


----------



## Peerless

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, big papa Mox definitely a huge ratings draw for AEW. Hopefully he has a match next week. Could hit a million again.


Considering how awful last week's show was I am quite surprised by their numbers this week. I genuinely wonder where they would be without him.


----------



## Claro De Luna

900k? Jeez they are seriously killing it even without crowds. It's a good time to be on board the AEW train.


----------



## taker1986

Also 0.36 on the demo. Didn't SD do 0.42 the other week. You gotta think without NXT on at the sane time AEW would have a good shot of beating SD and Raw in the demo.


----------



## TD Stinger

Great for AEW. They seem to be getting hot at the right time. And with NXT rising up too it seems like the combined audience is increasing too.


----------



## Klitschko

Hmmm 900k plus 750k. Thats 1.65 million. So does that mean they are growing the wrestling audience? Since The Wood guy is always saying that its always the same 1.5 million people watching. Great ratings for NXT and AEW.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Solid numbers great job.naysayers be damned AEW is gaining momentum let's keep it up next week looks great too.


----------



## Claro De Luna

taker1986 said:


> Also 0.36 on the demo. Didn't SD do 0.42 the other week. You gotta think without NXT on at the sane time AEW would have a good shot of beating SD and Raw in the demo.


WWE are to AEW what TNA were to WWE during their downfall. AEW getting all the respect now and potential media partners definitely taking notice.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Hmmm 900k plus 750k. Thats 1.65 million. So does that mean they are growing the wrestling audience? Since The Wood guy is always saying that its always the same 1.5 million people watching. Great ratings for NXT and AEW.


It's higher than 1.65 million if you take into account streaming and international viewership.

Either it's 150k new fans or a whole heap of people decided not to stream.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Clearly this is an anomaly, because according to the allegedly smartest people on this forum AEW can’t do anything right and Tony Kahn is an idiot who’s in way over his head and Cody is HHH Jr and Orange Cassidy will never be a draw and goddammit why does Marko Stunt get so much tv time. Somebody must be fudging these numbers, or there are just way too many morons who don’t know shit about real wrestling tuned into TNT this week. And last week. And the week before that. No way this can last.


----------



## DaSlacker

Wow, that's an impressive number all things considered. Cassidy definitely a ratings draw when he's used to his strengths i.e segments rather than matches. Moxley is a very dependable world champion and you have to think the half open door approach (i.e bringing in Bischoff, Ryder etc) is helping to an extent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well shit......  

big draw OC, big draw Darby and legends Dark Order does it again

that is proper pre-pandemic numbers now

0.36 in the demo is very VERY legit

it’s a shame it was such a bad show from what i’ve been reading in the live thread


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Clearly this is an anomaly, because according to the allegedly smartest people on this forum AEW can’t do anything right and Tony Kahn is an idiot who’s in way over his head and Cody is HHH Jr and Orange Cassidy will never be a draw and goddammit why does Marko Stunt get so much tv time. Somebody must be fudging these numbers, or there are just way too many morons who don’t know shit about real wrestling tuned into TNT this week. And last week. And the week before that. No way this can last.


they need LEADERSHIP Reg!

the don’t know what they’re doing! 🤣


----------



## El Hammerstone

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Clearly this is an anomaly, because according to the allegedly smartest people on this forum AEW can’t do anything right and Tony Kahn is an idiot who’s in way over his head and Cody is HHH Jr and Orange Cassidy will never be a draw and goddammit why does Marko Stunt get so much tv time. Somebody must be fudging these numbers, or there are just way too many morons who don’t know shit about real wrestling tuned into TNT this week. And last week. And the week before that. No way this can last.


Don't be a shit disturber.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

..... i think leading up to All Out they might pull a million


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> Don't be a shit disturber.


this is the shitposting ratings channel

the one time a week people can lord their superior knowledge over their foes

c’mon... live a little - it means nothing


----------



## RiverFenix

They're always very solid in the 6-8 weeks building up to a PPV but struggle right after and in the writing for their mid-PPV calendar "special". 

It will be interesting to see what they pull when bumped to Thursdays because of the NBA. If TNT does them right with marketing out the wazoo for the move they could potentially pull over 1M.


----------



## Prosper

Holy shit awesome number. I was thinking maybe 820K but 901K is huge for AEW. They will be back over a million by All Out for sure.

It had to be the Darby/Mox match and maybe the debate that did it. The 12 Man Tag wasn't bad either for a clusterfuck. Would love to see the quarterly's.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Eric Bischoff I bet drew in a solid 30K fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Strange how the numbers keep growing with so many people who stopped watching


----------



## rexmundi

AEW breaks 900,000 for the first time since March 18 (Hardy debut) and highest demo since February 5. Well done.

AEW and NXT combined for 1.654M the highest combined audience since February 19 (1.687M) with a combined .56 demo. RAW just did this: 1.715M and a .513 demo which were up quite a bit from the previous week. Pro Wrestling on Wednesdays is extremely near and sometimes exceeding Mondays on wrestling. Interesting development.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Their 18 - 34 is now equal to all 3 hours of RAW 

edit> equal? They’re beating RAW


----------



## Alright_Mate

900k, fully deserved.

AEW haters...


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Great number for AEW. Sadly NXT's viewers not bad either.

900K is great but that demo is awesome. Have to wonder what kind of demo they draw uncontested.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> Eric Bischoff I bet drew in a solid 30K fans.


He wasn't advertised though and not many people went online searching for spoilers for a guest host segment or even cared to. I'm thinking they just gained viewers all night and topped off big with the main event.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464683908730881


----------



## PavelGaborik

Edit : double post


----------



## PavelGaborik

Over 900k viewers and overall viewership of Wrestling in general sees a nice jump. 

Somewhere discount Cornette is having a meltdown.


----------



## shandcraig

I think a year from now AEW will be much better in every way and will hit 1 mill weekly. It continues to try to change and do different new things. Im sure its production wil change from being generic that it is now too


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291464683908730881


Dude how are people so fast with this shit lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shandcraig said:


> I think a year from now AEW will be much better in every way and will hit 1 mill weekly. It continues to try to change and do different new things. Im sure its production wil change from being generic that it is now too


when they can travel again and have crowds its gonna be ‘game on’

people will never take for granted again the ability to go see a show


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> He wasn't advertised though and not many people went online searching for spoilers for a guest host segment or even cared to. I'm thinking they just gained viewers all night and topped off big with the main event.


He was there to boast over 50's


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Kenny is MAD lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291466907451895813


----------



## Prosper

The fact that AEW is reaching pre-pandemic numbers without a crowd speaks volumes. When crowds come back I fully expect 1.2 - 1.3 every week. Especially because at that point major story lines with the 4HM and Elite power struggle will be in motion. Then there's the Blood and Guts build. A lot of good stuff coming for AEW programming. TNT is probably stoked, especially with the success in the demo.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> The fact that AEW is reaching pre-pandemic numbers without a crowd speaks volumes. When crowds come back I fully expect 1.2 - 1.3 every week. Especially because at that point major story lines with the 4HM and Elite power struggle will be in motion. Then there's the Blood and Guts build. A lot of good stuff coming for AEW programming. TNT is probably stoked, especially with the success in the demo.


Blood & guts might feature 4 horsemen going forward


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The buys for this is gonna be massive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291472089019330560


----------



## shandcraig

LifeInCattleClass said:


> when they can travel again and have crowds its gonna be ‘game on’
> 
> people will never take for granted again the ability to go see a show



I also think AEW is going to fucking bring it for sure cus they for sure will appreciate any paying fan


----------



## DaSlacker

prosperwithdeen said:


> The fact that AEW is reaching pre-pandemic numbers without a crowd speaks volumes. When crowds come back I fully expect 1.2 - 1.3 every week. Especially because at that point major story lines with the 4HM and Elite power struggle will be in motion. Then there's the Blood and Guts build. A lot of good stuff coming for AEW programming. TNT is probably stoked, especially with the success in the demo.


In terms of switching people from heel to face and vice versa, establishing alliances etc they've been very reserved. Same with the titles. That gives a lot of room for maneuver.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Blood & guts might feature 4 horsemen going forward


imagine the 4HM with a betrayal vs the Elite

money money


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The buys for this is gonna be massive
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291472089019330560


Agreed. I have high expectations for the PPV buys. Moxley vs MJF as the headliner should do great numbers.


----------



## Prosper

shandcraig said:


> I also think AEW is going to fucking bring it for sure cus they for sure will appreciate any paying fan


For sure, as soon as crowds come back, these guys are gonna want to put on the greatest shows possible and blow the roof off the place 



DaSlacker said:


> In terms of switching people from heel to face and vice versa, establishing alliances etc they've been very reserved. Same with the titles. That gives a lot of room for maneuver.


There are so many layers they haven't even begun to touch yet. So many possibilities.


----------



## Dizzie

Wow that's good numbers for both nxt and aew, good for wrestling as well because the general perception have been stuck on only being able to bring around a combined 1.5 million fans to wrestling on Wednesday night but have surpassed that by a quite a bit.


----------



## Joe Gill

surprise surprise...aew finally listened to us fans giving constructive criticism about cutting back on the comedy and having a more mature product and the ratings are going back up. they also kept the womans garbage to a minimum and there wasnt that annoying excalibur doing play by play. good job aew now keep it up.... although its a shame their schedule is getting messed up due to the nba... would have been sweet if one the shows could have been rescheduled for a monday night.... would be sweet to see dynamite head to head with hours 2 and 3 of raw.... even if its just for a week.


----------



## Whoanma

Once more, with feeling...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286391206675505152


----------



## Erik.

Light the fuse, bring the boom.


----------



## Prosper

Joe Gill said:


> surprise surprise...aew finally listened to us fans giving constructive criticism about cutting back on the comedy and having a more mature product and the ratings are going back up. they also kept the womans garbage to a minimum and there wasnt that annoying excalibur doing play by play. good job aew now keep it up.... although its a shame their schedule is getting messed up due to the nba... would have been sweet if one the shows could have been rescheduled for a monday night.... would be sweet to see dynamite head to head with hours 2 and 3 of raw.... even if its just for a week.


Those schedule changes are gonna result in cable viewerships in the 500K's I think. NXT Takeover XXX is airing at 7PM on 8/22, and Dynamite that week was moved to 8/22 at 6PM. Takeover is shaping up to be a great card with Kross and Lee main eventing, so that may hurt AEW even more on that Saturday.


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Those schedule changes are gonna result in cable viewerships in the 500K's I think. NXT Takeover XXX is airing at 7PM on 8/22, and Dynamite that week was moved to 8/22 at 6PM. Takeover is shaping up to be a great card with Kross and Lee main eventing, so that may hurt AEW even more on that Saturday.


Aew will have something planned to go up against that


----------



## Prosper

Pippen94 said:


> Aew will have something planned to go up against that


Hopefully they don't give away anything big that should be on PPV, I would just take the L on that one


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

_begin rant_

The most dangerous ’narrative’ right now for WWE is that they Are for over 50+ and AEW is for the younger audience - it will bear fruit in the long term for AEW / and will damage WWE

Also - for all the ‘it’s a bad look’ (which is an expression I loathe) from people saying various AEW guys should not be addressing ratings / it is amazing to see that since they’ve done that, the ratings have rallied

it was AEW doing what it does best, mobilising a loyal fanbase

but ‘experts’ on here said it was bad

look At this now - they make more money as a result and smashed the opposition and has eyes on RAW

maybe it is time to take a little step back and admit these fuckers know what they’re doing

_end Rant_


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> _begin rant_
> 
> The most dangerous ’narrative’ right now for WWE is that they Are for over 50+ and AEW is for the younger audience - it will bear fruit in the long term for AEW
> 
> Also - for all the ‘it’s a bad look’ (which is an expression I loathe) from people saying various AEW guys should not be addressing ratings / it is amazing to see that since they’ve done that, the ratings have rallied
> 
> it was AEW doing what it does best, mobilising a loyal fanbase
> 
> but ‘experts’ on here said it was bad
> 
> look At this now - they make more money as a result and smashed the opposition and has eyes on RAW
> 
> maybe it is time to take a little step back and admit these fuckers know what they’re doing
> 
> _end Rant_


----------



## Dizzie

2 lengthy dark order matches = ratings winner 😛


----------



## Fearless Viper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291471310208425984
This should be interesting...


----------



## The XL 2

Dynamite will have betting ratings than Raw by January.


----------



## The XL 2

Dynamites ratings going up goes to show that the no crowds thing killing ratings is bullshit. Raws numbers are going down because the show is awful


----------



## shandcraig

So people are paying to read some generic lines anyone could say as news ? cool


----------



## Botchy SinCara

damn boi..honestly Covid most def has halted them ..the first show without fans was one of their best and they were going full on with the inner circle vs the elite but held on of blood and guts and paused other stories to wait for fans ..its about to be on when fans can come back


----------



## Garty

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Clearly this is an anomaly, because according to the allegedly smartest people on this forum AEW can’t do anything right and Tony Kahn is an idiot who’s in way over his head and Cody is HHH Jr and Orange Cassidy will never be a draw and goddammit why does Marko Stunt get so much tv time. Somebody must be fudging these numbers, or there are just way too many morons who don’t know shit about real wrestling tuned into TNT this week. And last week. And the week before that. No way this can last.


He lives! Welcome home bud!


----------



## Prosper

The XL 2 said:


> Dynamites ratings going up goes to show that the no crowds thing killing ratings is bullshit. Raws numbers are going down because the show is awful


I have to admit that I was wrong because I was one of the main ones saying that the crowds were the reason they dropped to 700k back in March. I guess people don't care about crowds as much as I thought. They still make a difference don’t get me wrong, with crowds back they’ll be at 1.2 - 1.3, but at the same time it’s just a matter of what preferences people have as far as programming. The difference with RAW and AEW is that even with crowds, RAW would still be a terrible show. Their cable ratings were plummeting far before COVID.


----------



## Blaze2k2

Back in the 900,000's I see. They haven't done that number since March when Covid 19 began.


----------



## Blaze2k2

shandcraig said:


> So people are paying to read some generic lines anyone could say as news ? cool


The wrestling observer newsletter is more than that though.


----------



## bdon

You stop putting out half-ass shows and get a great rating. Whodathunkit!?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Put all Meltzer and Cornette posts in a Super Thread please mods! Pleeeeezzzeeee


----------



## Garty

prosperwithdeen said:


> The fact that AEW is reaching pre-pandemic numbers without a crowd speaks volumes. When crowds come back I fully expect 1.2 - 1.3 every week. Especially because at that point major story lines with the 4HM and Elite power struggle will be in motion. Then there's the Blood and Guts build. A lot of good stuff coming for AEW programming. TNT is probably stoked, especially with the success in the demo.


I think TNT should give them a one-off Saturday night show, sooner or later. Call it, All-Star Saturday Show (ASS) and have it be a little over 2 hours, TBS Clash Of The Champions style. The tag-line ASS is perfect for promoting the show. You wanna see us kick some ASS, then watch AEW's All-Star Saturday Show. Jericho? MJF? Page? FTR? Best Friends? Cassidy? Dark Order? Taz? Sparks? Britt? Ford? Brodie? Those quick promos would be gold.

I really hope that TNT heavily promotes the day/time changes across all WarnerMedia platforms, concerning the few NBA interruptions. A press release would really help out with the temporary move as well.


----------



## Dizzie

this thread seems to be more quiet compared to usual, would it be this quiet if aew did 650-700k..

it goes to show how many of these posters that are constantly very negative about aew but claim that they aint anti aew are infact obviously anti aew.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> this thread seems to be more quiet compared to usual, would it be this quite if aew did 650-700k..
> 
> it goes to show how many of these posters that are constantly very negative about aew but claim that they aint anti aew are infact obviously anti aew.


very true

you can bet your ass OC, Darby and Dark Order would’ve gotten so much hate and ‘re-bookings’


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> let us for one minute take a knee and realise....

one of the Q’s made over a million if the average was 900

please.... please let it be the debate  

edit> or the Dark Order matches


----------



## Seafort

Klitschko said:


> Hmmm 900k plus 750k. Thats 1.65 million. So does that mean they are growing the wrestling audience? Since The Wood guy is always saying that its always the same 1.5 million people watching. Great ratings for NXT and AEW.


Careful....I made that exact point in another thread in that the combined audience was very close to RAW, and I was told firmly that the same people are watching both shows.


----------



## Garty

prosperwithdeen said:


> Those schedule changes are gonna result in cable viewerships in the 500K's I think. NXT Takeover XXX is airing at 7PM on 8/22, and Dynamite that week was moved to 8/22 at 6PM. Takeover is shaping up to be a great card with Kross and Lee main eventing, so that may hurt AEW even more on that Saturday.


I think it will do the exact opposite of that. With NXT only an hour or two later than Dynamite, you'll definitely get some casuals here and there. No doubt they will take a hit, but just how much is the bigger question. They're really on a roll right now and this is going to temporarily derail that momentum, at least for a few weeks.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ps> let us for one minute take a knee and realise....
> 
> one of the Q’s made over a million if the average was 900
> 
> please.... please let it be the debate
> 
> edit> or the Dark Order matches


I would not be surprised considering Bischoff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I would not be surprised considering Bischoff.


dude.... i’m one of the biggest aew marks on this board, agreed?

i had no idea Bish was coming - he didn’t pop the rating if it was the debate


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude.... i’m one of the biggest aew marks on this board, agreed?
> 
> i had no idea Bish was coming - he didn’t pop the rating if it was the debate


They still hyped the surprise aspect though, even before I was spoiled, I was planning to tune in out of curiosity.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> They still hyped the surprise aspect though.


i dreaded it - someone on here said ‘Fluffy’ might do it and i was😰

but i think we can safely say historically promos lost viewers - so, if it did pop it, i will concede Bish had something to do with it

but OC and Jericho too

if i can admit the one, hopefully people will admit the other


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude.... i’m one of the biggest aew marks on this board, agreed?
> 
> i had no idea Bish was coming - he didn’t pop the rating if it was the debate


The spoiler had been out there for almost a whole week. Most people knew he was coming. Considering the quarter ratings the last few times Jericho and OC interacted, if the segment was over million, what is most likely to be the difference maker? Two guys who have not had the highest rated segments, or the first time Bischoff appeared on the show and on TNT in 20 years?


----------



## Dizzie

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude.... i’m one of the biggest aew marks on this board, agreed?
> 
> i had no idea Bish was coming - he didn’t pop the rating if it was the debate


I think the actual intrigue of who the "surprise guest" would be would likely be the actual draw rather than eric but lets say hypothetically everyone knew it was eric and extra people tuned in for him, then shouldn't aew sign up eric if it's a ratings winner or are aew not allowed to sign anymore guys that featured in wwe even if the evidence points to it helping their numbers???


----------



## imthegame19

The Definition of Technician said:


> Damn that's some big shift. That's cool. Thanks for the info.
> 
> So if I understand correctly, Wade Keller has the info for the minute by minute breakdowns of AEW? that's quite interesting


Yeah I guess he has VIP section with Pwtorch. Where he goes over some minute by numbers In his podcast and newsletter. I'm gonna sign up to try to get them every week. It's like 10 dollars per month.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> The spoiler had been out there for almost a whole week. Most people knew he was coming. Considering the quarter ratings the last few times Jericho and OC interacted, if the segment was over million, what is most likely to be the difference maker? Two guys who have not had the highest rated segments, or the first time Bischoff appeared on the show and on TNT in 20 years?


see my reply above

i can admit the one / but if they kept interest for the whole Q, maybe you can admit the other?


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> see my reply above
> 
> i can admit the one / but if they kept interest for the whole Q, maybe you can admit the other?


Sure, I can admit the other. I know OC has a good sized fanbase.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dizzie said:


> I think the actual intrigue of who the "surprise guest" would be would likely be the actual draw rather than eric but lets say hypothetically everyone knew it was eric and extra people tuned in for him, then shouldn't aew sign up eric if it's a ratings winner or are aew not allowed to sign anymore guys that featured in wwe even if the evidence points to it helping their numbers???


don’t say ‘hire ex-wwe’ - you’ll be crucified on here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> Sure, I can admit the other. I know OC has a good sized fanbase.


🤜 🤛

fair play


----------



## Y2K23

Haters on suicide watch


----------



## Keister Fredrickson

shandcraig said:


> So people are paying to read some generic lines anyone could say as news ? cool


Generic lines? What more do you want, news being reported with humor? Wth


----------



## Not Lying

NXT beats AEW 3 weeks in a row without the FOTC, Moxley returns and is booked like a star vs Cage/Darby, and ratings rise and rise..surprise surprise..


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Put all Meltzer and Cornette posts in a Super Thread please mods! Pleeeeezzzeeee


I mean this belongs in the ratings thread no?


----------



## yeahbaby!

Woopdeedoo really. I would expect a reality show about toilets flushing would beat RAW in ratings.


----------



## One Shed

Yeah, and it should be beating RAW. RAW has been a dumpster fire for a long time with very few bright spots.


----------



## One Shed

yeahbaby! said:


> Woopdeedoo really. I would expect a reality show about toilets flushing would beat RAW in ratings.


Wait, I thought that WAS RAW now?


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291508980712386562


----------



## shandcraig

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Generic lines? What more do you want, news being reported with humor? Wth


point being he writes generic shit that every other free journalist post and people pay to read it. That these days pretty much anyone can find out about


----------



## Chan Hung

As bad as Dynamite can be its still better than that shit on Monday. It's unbearable.


----------



## Chan Hung

holy shit 900,000 for AEW, and NXT 750,000, thats pretty fucking amazing to be honest. No fans and all. While WWE Raw is tanking like shit with boring TV


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dreaded it - someone on here said ‘Fluffy’ might do it and i was😰
> 
> but i think we can safely say historically promos lost viewers - so, if it did pop it, i will concede Bish had something to do with it
> 
> but OC and Jericho too
> 
> if i can admit the one, hopefully people will admit the other


I'll admit that each person involved played a factor, but I actually have a separate counter proposal, and this one involves only myself.

If AEW ever pulls even or greater in the overall ratings with Raw or Smackdown (and I do want it to), I will never say a negative word about Orange Cassidy on this forum again; just so we're clear though, it has to beat one of those shows that same week, so no loopholes about AEW drawing a 1.6 in 2021 only for someone to call back to when Raw drew a 1.5 in 2020, so they technically did beat them. Deal?


----------



## bdon

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, and it should be beating RAW. RAW has been a dumpster fire for a long time with very few bright spots.


They have been begging for someone to come along forever, which is why it pissed me off when they were protecting storylines and all that.


----------



## Prosper

Will be interesting to see how many people RAW underground draws next week now that people know about it and how it affects the demo.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Will be interesting to see how many people RAW underground draws next week now that people know about it and how it affects the demo.


Marty Jannetty vs New Jack. Book it!


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Will be interesting to see how many people RAW underground draws next week now that people know about it and how it affects the demo.


I think whatever they pop got this week is about it - ratings will drop in coming weeks


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Marty Jannetty vs New Jack. Book it!


Lol I’d pay to see that in a heartbeat, do it at
Summerslam the card needs it



Pippen94 said:


> I think whatever they pop got this week is about it - ratings will drop in coming weeks


I’m thinking maybe it gets them up to a 1.7, then people will say fuck it the following week and they drop to 1.5, it’s funny that WWE is not using pro wrestling to improve the situation like this is some sort of long term fix lol


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol I’d pay to see that in a heartbeat, do it at
> Summerslam the card needs it
> 
> 
> I’m thinking maybe it gets them up to a 1.7, then people will say fuck it the following week and they drop to 1.5, it’s funny that WWE is not using pro wrestling to improve the situation like this is some sort of long term fix lol


JR said something interesting on his podcast today. He does not believe Vince has ever watched a full episode of RAW or Smackdown. I completely believe him.


----------



## La Parka

Lheurch said:


> Marty Jannetty vs New Jack. Book it!


This is the match that would make me watch Raw live for the first time in years.


----------



## deadcool

Not really all that surprised. Dynamite is a far better show than any weekly show that WWE produces. I hope AEW keeps the momentum going.


----------



## NXT Only

Weeks and weeks of quality shows pays off like we said. AEW built equity with their fan base and you see what happens.


----------



## deadcool

*August 5*: AEW 0.36 (901,000 viewers), NXT 0.20 (753,000)

They almost had a million viewers this week. It's very impressive given the competition, and how young the promotion is.

I just realized, the "DemoGod" will have more to yap about next week.


----------



## Pablo Escobar

Come on Dave.... Raw still has 1.7M viewers and AEW is between 700-900K ... so Raw is still doubling them with their worst ratings ever.


----------



## Cult03

Dizzie said:


> this thread seems to be more quiet compared to usual, would it be this quiet if aew did 650-700k..
> 
> it goes to show how many of these posters that are constantly very negative about aew but claim that they aint anti aew are infact obviously anti aew.


Apart from me, who hasn't been able to watch the show yet and The Wood, who seems to be missing, the usual "Haters" have all come in this thread congratulating AEW. Now I rarely post in this thread anyway because I don't care about ratings, but this says more about why the arguments occur than anyone being anti-AEW. When we post positive stuff you blokes don't notice because it ruins your victim mentalities and destroys the "THEY ARE TROLLS" narrative you're trying to push. 

Congratulations AEW, it's amazing what happens when you put in some effort and put on a few good shows. Hopefully they can continue to improve both their show and the ratings. Also your post is bait


----------



## InexorableJourney

If this demo held against RAW on a monday, AEW would get a higher ranking for the night pushing RAW ever down.

Only 82 weeks to go.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Apart from me, who hasn't been able to watch the show yet and The Wood, who seems to be missing, the usual "Haters" have all come in this thread congratulating AEW. Now I rarely post in this thread anyway because I don't care about ratings, but this says more about why the arguments occur than anyone being anti-AEW. When we post positive stuff you blokes don't notice because it ruins your victim mentalities and destroys the "THEY ARE TROLLS" narrative you're trying to push.
> 
> Congratulations AEW, it's amazing what happens when you put in some effort and put on a few good shows. Hopefully they can continue to improve both their show and the ratings. Also your post is bait


I forgot to comment, but I seen that post and immediately thought the same thing. Every single one of the “haterzz!!!lol!!!” came in immediately congratulating the company.


----------



## shandcraig

shitty thing is the 3 weeks coming up might drop because of random days it will air. They need to keep pushing adult content and less nerdy.The past few weeks proves this


----------



## AthleticGirth

Lheurch said:


> Marty Jannetty vs New Jack. Book it!


Jamaican Jealousy Death Match. Winner has to put their opponent in a body bag and drop them in the Chattahoochie River.


----------



## Schwartzxz

who gives a shit. wrestling sucks and ratings are terrible for all shows. nobody is winning.


----------



## Chan Hung

shandcraig said:


> shitty thing is the 3 weeks coming up might drop because of random days it will air. They need to keep pushing adult content and less nerdy.The past few weeks proves this


Also promote the heck out of the new times!


----------



## theboxingfan

deadcool said:


> Not really all that surprised. Dynamite is a far better show than any weekly show that WWE produces. I hope AEW keeps the momentum going.


Keeps their own momentum of losing viewers. They started off with double the viewers thry now have.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Did The Wood get banned? He's always in this thread trashing AEW and going on about Raw. Same for Ozell. These clowns just got cancelled.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Pablo Escobar said:


> Come on Dave.... Raw still has 1.7M viewers and AEW is between 700-900K ... so Raw is still doubling them with their worst ratings ever.


Raw doesn't go up against another wrestling show each week.
Only old people watch Raw, and those demos don't matter at all.

I mean, some of you WWE fanboys are sad. Why are you even defending that show at this point?


----------



## Randy Lahey

InexorableJourney said:


> If this demo held against RAW on a monday, AEW would get a higher ranking for the night pushing RAW ever down.
> 
> Only 82 weeks to go.


Tony should put AEW head to head against Raw and force USA to cancel them


----------



## shandcraig

Randy Lahey said:


> Did The Wood get banned? He's always in this thread trashing AEW and going on about Raw. Same for Ozell. These clowns just got cancelled.


I think a handful of people got banned recently .Other people i know did for sure


----------



## InexorableJourney

Randy Lahey said:


> Tony should put AEW head to head against Raw and force USA to cancel them


If AEW did the WWE trick of splitting the show into 2 seperate hours, RAW may drop out of the top 10 permanently.


----------



## BuckshotLarry

Amazing news, absolutely chuffed for everyone at AEW (as well as us fans).


----------



## Joe Gill

so wwe has created a lame pg product.... that is viewed mostly by old geezers. yeah that makes sense.
it would be like creating a childrens cartoon.... and children dont watch but their grandparents do. that is basically wwe right now.


----------



## imthegame19

It's going to be interesting to see how AEW and NXT ratings are when not going head to head in a few weeks. You would think AEW might be able to get over million viewers. But it's no sure thing people are gonna follow the show to Saturday and Thursday for those random weeks. I would feel more confident in it doing a big number if NXT had to move to another night for a few weeks. But we will see how Dynamite does. I wouldn't be shocked if they do over million viewers on Thursday night.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I forgot to comment, but I seen that post and immediately thought the same thing. Every single one of the “haterzz!!!lol!!!” came in immediately congratulating the company.


Bet it won't get a response though. These guys love the victim mentality and need an enemy. WWE, the WWE roster, us. They feed off it and they wouldn't know what to do without it. The narrative is bullshit and this thread is 100% proof that no matter how positive any of us are they will still spin it and make up lies


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> Bet it won't get a response though. These guys love the victim mentality and need an enemy. WWE, the WWE roster, us. They feed off it and they wouldn't know what to do without it. The narrative is bullshit and this thread is 100% proof that no matter how positive any of us are they will still spin it and make up lies


A few people seem absolutely devastated @The Wood left them.


----------



## shandcraig

even with out a crowd if AEW can get good stories going and start focusing on getting its young talent pushed.I could see them hitr a million by the fall. Its probably lofy to say that but whatever its possible. I mean this week is only 100k off


----------



## Mister Sinister

No doubt they broke a million viewers at some point during this week's show. Mox and the world title bringeth the asses to the couches.


----------



## captainzombie

Randy Lahey said:


> Did The Wood get banned? He's always in this thread trashing AEW and going on about Raw. Same for Ozell. These clowns just got cancelled.





shandcraig said:


> I think a handful of people got banned recently .Other people i know did for sure


Took long enough. One of the reasons why I stopped posting here due to people like The Wood and several others that just can't stop being toxic.

Almost 1 million viewers is great. Hopefully they can keep building off of these last few weeks of good TV. Last weeks Dynamite wasn't as good as this weeks, but glad to see them pulling forward.

Let's all hope for a Scorpio Sky win next week.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> No doubt they broke a million viewers at some point during this week's show. Mox and the world title bringeth the asses to the couches.


Then why was it the Bucks, Butcher and Blade that had the highest rated segment topping a million? Why was it Kenny and Page with Dark Order winning the night last week?

No doubt Mox is the top draw, but acting as if it is a foregone conclusion that he had the night’s high seems circumspect.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Then why was it the Bucks, Butcher and Blade that had the highest rated segment topping a million? Why was it Kenny and Page with Dark Order winning the night last week?
> 
> No doubt Mox is the top draw, but acting as if it is a foregone conclusion that he had the night’s high seems circumspect.


"Highest segment of the night" is the wrong way to look at it, because the overall number for the quarter depends on the time and the competition. Drawing a 1 million quarter when the previous quarter had 990K is far less impressive that drawing a 900K quarter when the previous quarter had 800K viewers. That's why everything is based on the amount of the quarter hour gain. It's an indication of how much that particular star added to a quarter.

Also, I think that poster was referring to the fact that during Fytet Fest, Dynamite was getting its ass kicked by NXT and drawing 600-700K, while after his return, Dynamite has seen a substantial increase in its demo and overall viewership.


----------



## rexmundi

The 901,000 total viewers is their seventh highest this year. The .36 demo is tied for second with three other episodes, trailing only a .38 on 15 January.

Just realized this. It was week 32 of AEW vs nxt this year. Their combined viewership was the fourth highest this year. Interest is def. growing on Wednesday nights.

By the way, if anyone is keeping track (other than me lol) AEW is 35-8-1 in total viewers vs nxt and 43-1 (thank you, Jericho) in the 18-49 demo and 32-0 this year.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> "Highest segment of the night" is the wrong way to look at it, because the overall number for the quarter depends on the time and the competition. Drawing a 1 million quarter when the previous quarter had 990K is far less impressive that drawing a 900K quarter when the previous quarter had 800K viewers. That's why everything is based on the amount of the quarter hour gain. It's an indication of how much that particular star added to a quarter.
> 
> Also, I think that poster was referring to the fact that during Fytet Fest, Dynamite was getting its ass kicked by NXT and drawing 600-700K, while after his return, Dynamite has seen a substantial increase in its demo and overall viewership.


And that’s fair, but ultimately, he didn’t have the highest rated segment, so someone had a higher number and helped raise the overall average.


----------



## rexmundi

Pablo Escobar said:


> Come on Dave.... Raw still has 1.7M viewers and AEW is between 700-900K ... so Raw is still doubling them with their worst ratings ever.


 RAW isn't competing with another show for wrestling. This is why NXT is opposite AEW. The idea is to depress AEW'S ratings. Even with the competition, AEW does a good demo. Without nxt, I don't think AEW would be beating RAW but RAW's lead would be much less impressive, especially in the younger demos.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

the ratings today proved that aew does not need a womens division. in fact im all for getting rid of the division entirely similarity to njpw. aew doubled nxts female viewers from 18-34 with only 3 minutes of womens wrestling. aew should use women as valets managers commentators & announcers no need to have a womens division.


----------



## Wolf Mark

That is good. Although I'll say this, they beat them with lower numbers than Spike TV TNA so in many ways it shows how the WWE has fallen.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> And that’s fair, but ultimately, he didn’t have the highest rated segment, so someone had a higher number and helped raise the overall average.


I think people are pointing to Moxley this week. Because last time he had title match vs Cage. It did really high number. Since Darby match was hyped up through the show. People are assuming it could be Mox/Darby again.


That said I wouldn't be surprised it something else gets higher number. After I heard more and more about minute by minute and such a shift of viewers going back and forth between Dynamite and NXT. Commercials and competition have such impact on these quarters.


There's a good few hundred thousand viewers shifting back and forth between the shows. So if say Young Bucks have some fun exciting match going on. While NXT on commercial or had something really weak on.


Well it could lead to huge quarter. While next quarter has something really good on NXT. So it splits the viewers and data shows big loss in viewers in the next quarter. So the whole thing is very subjective. This is why AEW has their own data people to analyze all this.


For example based on the numbers based on the quarter ratings. Jericho/Orange Cassidy match was failure. Yet they are doing it again 5-6 weeks later. Well it couldn't have done that bad for rematch next week.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Fucking great, they are at pre-Covid numbers.


----------



## NXT Only

AEW staying true to themselves and never worrying was amazing to me. They played their cards correctly. Never jumped out the window, the slow build prevailed in the end.


----------



## imthegame19

Here's the quarter ratings. Let's keep in mind these are very subjective and not great way to judge anything. But it gives is idea what did well. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291579447917846529


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Here's the quarter ratings. Let's keep in mind these are very subjective and not great way to judge anything. But it gives is idea what did well.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291579447917846529


Omega and the Bucks suck! They can’t draw a dime!


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> Here's the quarter ratings. Let's keep in mind these are very subjective and not great way to judge anything. But it gives is idea what did well.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291579447917846529


Pretty consistent all night. Doesn't look like anything really lost or gained a monumental amount of viewers. Strong show all around that kept people interested in every part. The lowest point of the night was Quarter 7, which is where the Britt Baker/Swole thing took place. Highest points of the night were the 12 man tag and the Best Friends/Santana & Ortiz match. Interesting.


----------



## Peerless

Feels like the lead-in number determines the overall number. What was showing before AEW on TNT? Was it NBA?

I'm not too surprised though. I've been saying that the show should mostly revolve around Mox, Jericho, and the Elite. This week you had the Elite at the start, Jericho in the middle, and Mox in the end. Surprise, surprise the audience actually stayed and it would've been higher at the end if Reba and Swole didn't tank the numbers in the death slot.


----------



## bdon

I think they should go back to more matches involving QT Marshall and Dustin Rhodes, because him getting swerved by Allie is such riveting stuff. Maybe he can challenge for the TNT Title next, because he “isn’t getting a push” and not like it’s the world title afterall.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Peerless said:


> Feels like the lead-in number determines the overall number. What was showing before AEW on TNT? Was it NBA?
> 
> I'm not too surprised though. I've been saying that the show should mostly revolve around Mox, Jericho, and the Elite. This week you had the Elite at the start, Jericho in the middle, and Mox in the end. Surprise, surprise the audience actually stayed and it would've been higher at the end if Reba and Swole didn't tank the numbers in the death slot.


Well Jericho has been a ratings loser for a while actually. There was a night where AEW won but Jericho and OC was the lowest segment on the show. Then he main evented three weeks with Best Friends/OC and AEW got slaughtered. Now I have not seen how this week was, maybe the DemoGod has improved his numbers, who knows. lol


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Here's the quarter ratings. Let's keep in mind these are very subjective and not great way to judge anything. But it gives is idea what did well.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291579447917846529


So the main event not only had the biggest gain of the night, but also the biggest quarter hour gap over NXT.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> So the main event not only had the biggest gain of the night, but also the biggest quarter hour gap over NXT.


Q2 won by 166k.

Soooo, lie some more please.


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> Pretty consistent all night. Doesn't look like anything really lost or gained a monumental amount of viewers. Strong show all around that kept people interested in every part. The lowest point of the night was Quarter 7, which is where the Britt Baker/Swole thing took place. Highest points of the night were the 12 man tag and the Best Friends/Santana & Ortiz match. Interesting.


Quarter 1 usually does well. Because it doesn't have commercial break. I think holding over same number to quarter 2 is really impressive. I think that included end of 12 man tag and Moxley promo.


The rest was very steady for the night. While quarter 7 you can't blame Big Swole/Rebel and Baker. Because they got 4 minutes of that quarter. Two commercial breaks and match run down I'm sure killed the quarter. Minute by minute that segment might have down very well. 


I'm also curious to see how many viewers Moxley/Darby lost during the picture and picture. Hopefully Wade Keller gives some minute by minute details tomorrow. Because I can see actual match with Mox/Darby doing closer averaging closer to 890-900 when it wasn't in commercial. Since last week main event got 721 quarter. Yet if you take away viewers lost during picture and picture it jumped up to 743.


----------



## Wolf Mark

AEWMoxley said:


> So the main event not only had the biggest gain of the night, but also the biggest quarter hour gap over NXT.


Now just imagine for a second if Mox was tied to a big storyline like say Sting was to the nWo or Austin had with Vince. Say have the entire Elite going after Mox. Those AEW main event numbers would triple.


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Q2 won by 166k.
> 
> Soooo, lie some more please.


Good point, I completely missed that quarter hour.

Congrats to Best Friends and Proud and Powerful for being the best drawing teams of the night.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Q2 won by 166k.
> 
> Soooo, lie some more please.


Well Moxley did have his promo in quarter 2 didn't he?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Wolf Mark said:


> Now just imagine for a second if Mox was tied to a big storyline like say Sting was to the nWo or Austin had with Vince. Say have the entire Elite going after Mox. Those AEW main event numbers would triple.


MJF is the perfect opponent for him.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Good point, I completely missed that quarter hour.
> 
> Congrats to Best Friends and Proud and Powerful for being the best drawing teams of the night.


Haha. Nice save.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> Good point, I completely missed that quarter hour.
> 
> Congrats to Best Friends and Proud and Powerful for being the best drawing teams of the night.


I think quarter 2 had end of 12 man tag. Moxley promo and Best Friends arrival in mini van. But I could be wrong.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> I think quarter 2 had end of 12 man tag. Moxley promo and Best Friends arrival in mini van. But I could be wrong.


It was roughly 4 mins of the 12 man tag, 3 mins of commercial break, 2.5 min Mox promo, and 3 mins and change of Best Friends vs PnP.

Way to go Omega and Bucks!


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> I think quarter 2 had end of 12 man tag. Moxley promo and Best Friends arrival in mini van. But I could be wrong.


That sounds about right. Final couple of minutes of the 12 man tag, Moxley promo, and most of the Best Friends match.


----------



## Peerless

Come to think of it Mox vs The Elite would actually be a fire storyline. Imagine it being him vs Cody and it's Cody who's trying to hold him down that would make for some compelling TV.

Mox -> Kenny -> Hangman -> MJF -> Cody -> Mox


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> It was roughly 4 mins of the 12 man tag, 3 mins of commercial break, 2.5 min Mox promo, and 3 mins and change of Best Friends vs PnP.
> 
> Way to go Omega and Bucks!


Gotta give Page/Brodie Lee props over Omega/Bucks in quarter 2(with Moxley of course). Since they were the focus of the finish to that match. Omega, Bucks and Brodie, Cabana, Grayson and Eno can get credit for quarter one tho.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Gotta give Page/Brodie Lee props over Omega/Bucks in quarter 2. Since they were the focus of the finish to that match. Omega, Bucks and Brodie, Cabana, Grayson and Eno can get quarter for quarter one tho.


And Kenny and The Bucks spent 6 minutes of Q1 without Page.

Kenny and the Bucks suck!! Can’t draw!!111b!!!!!!!


----------



## AEWMoxley

Just keep Omega and Page away from quarters involving Sasha Banks or any of the NXT main eventers, otherwise it could get ugly for AEW.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> And Kenny and The Bucks spent 6 minutes of Q1 without Page.
> 
> Kenny and the Bucks suck!! Can’t draw!!111b!!!!!!!


Yes they deserve credit for quarter one and so does Dark Order. I never thought we would get a Dynamite where two Dark Order matches did over 900,000 viewers.


----------



## imthegame19

Peerless said:


> Feels like the lead-in number determines the overall number. What was showing before AEW on TNT? Was it NBA?
> 
> I'm not too surprised though. I've been saying that the show should mostly revolve around Mox, Jericho, and the Elite. This week you had the Elite at the start, Jericho in the middle, and Mox in the end. Surprise, surprise the audience actually stayed and it would've been higher at the end if Reba and Swole didn't tank the numbers in the death slot.


NBA wasn't a lead in. But my theory that AEW had more viewers this week. Despite tougher competition of MLB and NBA games going on. Because young people have been watching NBA on TNT the past week seeing all the AEW ads that make Dynamite look really cool. Which lead to more 18-49 audience watching this week then their has been lately and why there was a increase. Let's see if they can keep those viewers.


----------



## SPCDRI

NXT's had way better lead ins than AEW. Sometimes NXT's lead in is a show that does more total viewers than AEW or NXT will do that night, lol. AEW's lead in shows don't even do 400,000 viewers most of the time. Wednesday night on TNT was TNT's graveyard night. Before Dynamite happened, most of the shows on TNT-Wednesday were below 500.000 viewers and out of top 50 in demo.


----------



## Wolf Mark

AEWMoxley said:


> MJF is the perfect opponent for him.


We'll see. It's still will be just "one guy face another guy" etc...


----------



## Wolf Mark

Peerless said:


> Come to think of it Mox vs The Elite would actually be a fire storyline. Imagine it being him vs Cody and it's Cody who's trying to hold him down that would make for some compelling TV.
> 
> Mox -> Kenny -> Hangman -> MJF -> Cody -> Mox


Exactly. At some point in the company you have the throw your biggest acts against each other to create the maximum heat and hype.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Dynamites lead in was The Magnificent Seven. NXT's was NCIS.


----------



## thorn123

good news re viewership, but Dynamite is still way better than programmes out there getting a million+ viewers


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

Peerless said:


> Feels like the lead-in number determines the overall number. What was showing before AEW on TNT? Was it NBA?
> 
> I'm not too surprised though. I've been saying that the show should mostly revolve around Mox, Jericho, and the Elite. This week you had the Elite at the start, Jericho in the middle, and Mox in the end. Surprise, surprise the audience actually stayed and it would've been higher at the end if Reba and Swole didn't tank the numbers in the death slot.


no the lead in was another showing of the magnificent 7


----------



## fabi1982

congratz to AEW for this rating. was actually expecting more of an up and down, but good that they kept viewers throughout the show. Little dissapointed with the ME rating, but I blame Darby, not Mox  Hope they will see that good shows create good ratings, same goes with NXT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> I'll admit that each person involved played a factor, but I actually have a separate counter proposal, and this one involves only myself.
> 
> If AEW ever pulls even or greater in the overall ratings with Raw or Smackdown (and I do want it to), I will never say a negative word about Orange Cassidy on this forum again; just so we're clear though, it has to beat one of those shows that same week, so no loopholes about AEW drawing a 1.6 in 2021 only for someone to call back to when Raw drew a 1.5 in 2020, so they technically did beat them. Deal?


i have a counter-counter proposal

all that you said - but ‘key demo’ 

not overall.

and not only ‘ no negative words’ - you have to praise him


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Here's the quarter ratings. Let's keep in mind these are very subjective and not great way to judge anything. But it gives is idea what did well.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291579447917846529


aww, never over a mil

sad 

seems the debate drew though?


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have a counter-counter proposal
> 
> all that you said - but ‘key demo’
> 
> not overall.
> 
> and not only ‘ no negative words’ - you have to praise him


Can't do it. I'll take you up on your initial proposal though.


----------



## Dizzie

Cult03 said:


> Apart from me, who hasn't been able to watch the show yet and The Wood, who seems to be missing, the usual "Haters" have all come in this thread congratulating AEW. Now I rarely post in this thread anyway because I don't care about ratings, but this says more about why the arguments occur than anyone being anti-AEW. When we post positive stuff you blokes don't notice because it ruins your victim mentalities and destroys the "THEY ARE TROLLS" narrative you're trying to push.
> 
> Congratulations AEW, it's amazing what happens when you put in some effort and put on a few good shows. Hopefully they can continue to improve both their show and the ratings. Also your post is bait


Yeah they delivered one post of congratulations to aew's numbers and that was that so why cant it be the same when they do a number that is maybe viewed in negative light and just sum up their thoughts in one or 2 posts, what happens instead is you get people just using it as an opportunity to gleefully produce countless toxic posts taking up multiple pages in the thread of trying to paint aew in as much of a negative light as possible.


----------



## patpat

I was told the elite ( omega bucks ) cant draw 
Was this all a lie?? Lmao


----------



## fabi1982

Dizzie said:


> Yeah they delivered one post of congratulations to aew's numbers and that was that so why cant it be the same when they do a number that is maybe viewed in negative light and just sum up their thoughts in one or 2 posts, what happens instead is you get people just using it as an opportunity to gleefully produce countless toxic posts taking up multiple pages in the thread of trying to paint aew in as much of a negative light as possible.


Because you dont react to positive posts. If you wouldnt react to the negative ones it would also be just one negative comment. But when you start responding, you cant expect them to not respond then to your response?!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I’m really shocked this show did that well. I watched the 10 minute youtube highlight and I thought the show was complete ass.

why the hell is Orange Cassidy still getting pushed??? He’s not a draw at all. AEW are still relying on comedy. They’ll never reach the casuals.


----------



## El Hammerstone

fabi1982 said:


> Because you dont react to positive posts. If you wouldnt react to the negative ones it would also be just one negative comment. But when you start responding, you cant expect them to not respond then to your response?!


It's beyond annoying that this simple fact has to be explained every single week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

imthegame19 said:


> NBA wasn't a lead in. But my theory that AEW had more viewers this week. Despite tougher competition of MLB and NBA games going on. Because young people have been watching NBA on TNT the past week seeing all the AEW ads that make Dynamite look really cool. Which lead to more 18-49 audience watching this week then their has been lately and why there was a increase. Let's see if they can keep those viewers.


GREAT point. Their demo dropped the second the NBA paused.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> Can't do it. I'll take you up on your initial proposal though.


Lol - deal


----------



## bdon

Dizzie said:


> Yeah they delivered one post of congratulations to aew's numbers and that was that so why cant it be the same when they do a number that is maybe viewed in negative light and just sum up their thoughts in one or 2 posts, what happens instead is you get people just using it as an opportunity to gleefully produce countless toxic posts taking up multiple pages in the thread of trying to paint aew in as much of a negative light as possible.


Why do people feel compelled to tag and quote their negative responses to the ratings? They respond and multiple pages of banter begin. They post something positive, and people don’t even notice the positivity to the point that there were posts of people mocking them expecting negativity.


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> aww, never over a mil
> 
> sad
> 
> seems the debate drew though?


Some of the minute by minutes might have been.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I’m really shocked this show did that well. I watched the 10 minute youtube highlight and I thought the show was complete ass.
> 
> why the hell is Orange Cassidy still getting pushed??? He’s not a draw at all. AEW are still relying on comedy. They’ll never reach the casuals.


HEEL TURN!!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> HEEL TURN!!


I’m just being honest. The show was a complete train wreck. I could beat up Darby Allin really easily but how is he getting a title shot? And why the hell is Jericho still carrying around that jacket? It’s like they don’t want people to watch. It’s having the opposite effect. People are watching because they feel sorry for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I’m just being honest. The show was a complete train wreck. I could beat up Darby Allin really easily but how is he getting a title shot? And why the hell is Jericho still carrying around that jacket? It’s like they don’t want people to watch. It’s having the opposite effect. People are watching because they feel sorry for AEW.


Dude.... stop making so much sense! You’re turning me


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> I was told the elite ( omega bucks ) cant draw
> Was this all a lie?? Lmao


They can't, with the exception of Cody. It's been proven. They've lost viewers in at least half of the quarter hours they've ever been in, and when they go against NXT main events they get trashed. Let's not forget the brutal beat down Sasha Banks, of all people, laid down on Page and Omega recently.

But AEW has learned and has implemented much better match placement. Notice how they've put them in much safer spots since then.


----------



## 3venflow

Nice graphic showing the quarter hours from someone on Twitter. That dip during the women's match, wow...


----------



## AEWMoxley

That women's match really killed the momentum. 

MJF segment was the second biggest gainer of the night after the main event. This Moxley vs MJF feud is already generating interest in the product, and the build hasn't even started yet.


----------



## Whoanma

Vastly improved thread indeed.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


> Vastly improved thread indeed.


i imagine it will get as quiet as the NXT ratings thread once it reaches 1 mil again

we can just relax here once again


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i imagine it will get as quiet as the NXT ratings thread once it reaches 1 mil again
> 
> we can just relax here once again


AEW won’t reach 1 million, haha. They are stuck between 600-900k. They have lost over 500k of their fans. They book for the minority. The extra fans who watched this week are watching for pity reasons. I mean do people seriously believe AEW will reach 1 million viewers, haha.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> AEW won’t reach 1 million, haha. They are stuck between 600-900k. They have lost over 500k of their fans. They book for the minority. The extra fans who watched this week are watching for pity reasons. I mean do people seriously believe AEW will reach 1 million viewers, haha.


This is a bigger heel turn than Stone Cold at WM17 lmao


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> This is a bigger heel turn than Stone Cold at WM17 lmao


I understand where the “negative fans” come from now; I’ve learned a lot. They make a lot of sense. AEW push skinny twigs like Darby Allin; they push Nutella bodies like Janella and Dax; they book a lot of comedy; Jericho is still wearing his orange jacket which somehow gets more orange every week. I mean how is that funny? It’s insulting to the fans. I am a wrestling fan. I don’t watch wrestling to be entertained by comedy. I need realism.


----------



## RiverFenix

optikk sucks said:


> I understand where the “negative fans” come from now; I’ve learned a lot. They make a lot of sense. AEW push skinny twigs like Darby Allin; they push Nutella bodies like Janella and Dax; they book a lot of comedy; Jericho is still wearing his orange jacket which somehow gets more orange every week. I mean how is that funny? It’s insulting to the fans. I am a wrestling fan. I don’t watch wrestling to be entertained by comedy. I need realism.


Gimmick poster goes poof.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> I understand where the “negative fans” come from now; I’ve learned a lot. They make a lot of sense. AEW push skinny twigs like Darby Allin; they push Nutella bodies like Janella and Dax; they book a lot of comedy; Jericho is still wearing his orange jacket which somehow gets more orange every week. I mean how is that funny? It’s insulting to the fans. I am a wrestling fan. I don’t watch wrestling to be entertained by comedy. I need realism.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> I understand where the “negative fans” come from now; I’ve learned a lot. They make a lot of sense. AEW push skinny twigs like Darby Allin; they push Nutella bodies like Janella and Dax; they book a lot of comedy; Jericho is still wearing his orange jacket which somehow gets more orange every week. I mean how is that funny? It’s insulting to the fans. I am a wrestling fan. I don’t watch wrestling to be entertained by comedy. I need realism.


What do you think of Marko Stunt and does he have a place in wrestling?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> What do you think of Marko Stunt and does he have a place in wrestling?


at first, I appreciated his place. He is the annoying little runt of Jurassic Express. But nobody should be selling his offense. I mean what the fuck? Even the 5 year olds I teach could beat him up. Imagine Conor McGregor vs Drew McIntyre. McIntyre would run rings around McGregor. . It makes me want to give up on AEW, haha. Marko Stunt should be working as a kids GAP model


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> AEW won’t reach 1 million, haha. They are stuck between 600-900k. They have lost over 500k of their fans. They book for the minority. The extra fans who watched this week are watching for pity reasons. I mean do people seriously believe AEW will reach 1 million viewers, haha.


This is a fucking hilarious gimmick.

Jericho/OC was the biggest 18-49 segment on the show, well ahead of Moxley/Darby. This is why you don't judge a person based on one quarter hour rating that OC didn't do well on, it takes time to build stars, and maybe he's finally clicking, we'll really see next week to see how Jericho/OC does.

OC is definitely winning too.


----------



## Blaze2k2

optikk sucks said:


> I’m really shocked this show did that well. I watched the 10 minute youtube highlight and I thought the show was complete ass.


Can't really get a full assessment out of a 10-minute highlight clip. The show was strong and the ratings reflected that.



> why the hell is Orange Cassidy still getting pushed??? He’s not a draw at all.


He's pushed because he's over. It's that simple.




> AEW are still relying on comedy. They’ll never reach the casuals.


The show had very little comedy.


----------



## DOTL

optikk sucks said:


> AEW won’t reach 1 million, haha. They are stuck between 600-900k. They have lost over 500k of their fans. They book for the minority. The extra fans who watched this week are watching for pity reasons. I mean do people seriously believe AEW will reach 1 million viewers, haha.


NVM


----------



## Klitschko

I think Optikk finally snapped. 

Good rating for both AEW and NXT.


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> Then why was it the Bucks, Butcher and Blade that had the highest rated segment topping a million? Why was it Kenny and Page with Dark Order winning the night last week?
> 
> No doubt Mox is the top draw, but acting as if it is a foregone conclusion that he had the night’s high seems circumspect.


Like I said last week. The 8pm match slot is more valuable than who is in it. The main event sets the baseline tide, but you can get higher peaks at points like the 8pm match when other viewers are surfing.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

optikk sucks said:


> at first, I appreciated his place. He is the annoying little runt of Jurassic Express. But nobody should be selling his offense. I mean what the fuck? Even the 5 year olds I teach could beat him up. Imagine Conor McGregor vs Drew McIntyre. McIntyre would run rings around McGregor. . It makes me want to give up on AEW, haha. Marko Stunt should be working as a kids GAP model


That's a horrible comparison to use....

McGregor would knock McIntyre out in under 2 mins.....

Marko has gotten better and the way they've used him has been fine ,everyone has sold just enough and not sold enough to make it believable imo.His only win is over nakazawa so what evs lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> I’m really shocked this show did that well. I watched the 10 minute youtube highlight and I thought the show was complete ass.
> 
> why the hell is Orange Cassidy still getting pushed??? He’s not a draw at all. AEW are still relying on comedy. They’ll never reach the casuals.





optikk sucks said:


> I’m just being honest. The show was a complete train wreck. I could beat up Darby Allin really easily but how is he getting a title shot? And why the hell is Jericho still carrying around that jacket? It’s like they don’t want people to watch. It’s having the opposite effect. People are watching because they feel sorry for AEW.





optikk sucks said:


> AEW won’t reach 1 million, haha. They are stuck between 600-900k. They have lost over 500k of their fans. They book for the minority. The extra fans who watched this week are watching for pity reasons. I mean do people seriously believe AEW will reach 1 million viewers, haha.





optikk sucks said:


> I understand where the “negative fans” come from now; I’ve learned a lot. They make a lot of sense. AEW push skinny twigs like Darby Allin; they push Nutella bodies like Janella and Dax; they book a lot of comedy; Jericho is still wearing his orange jacket which somehow gets more orange every week. I mean how is that funny? It’s insulting to the fans. I am a wrestling fan. I don’t watch wrestling to be entertained by comedy. I need realism.





optikk sucks said:


> at first, I appreciated his place. He is the annoying little runt of Jurassic Express. But nobody should be selling his offense. I mean what the fuck? Even the 5 year olds I teach could beat him up. Imagine Conor McGregor vs Drew McIntyre. McIntyre would run rings around McGregor. . It makes me want to give up on AEW, haha. Marko Stunt should be working as a kids GAP model



Right here is all the evidence this board ever needed that the "haters" are far from the issue in the AEW section.

AEW "Haters": Fuck yeah, AEW got close to a million people! How good is that?!

Optikk: Oh, the haters are happy this week I better annoyingly mock them and their views whilst my mates cheer me on and tell me how funny I am because I need the attention.

---

Optikk, this just continues your cringe behaviour in these threads. You never debate anyone on their opinion or view and when everyone is getting along and happy you have to divide the fanbase and try to start a fight.

Worst poster in this section by far.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ooof - just read the CEO who basically secured AEW for TNT is out the door

don’t think it’ll matter

but it is worth noting


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ooof - just read the CEO who basically secured AEW for TNT is out the door
> 
> don’t think it’ll matter
> 
> but it is worth noting


It worst happens why can't they just switch networks??


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> It worst happens why can't they just switch networks??


Yeah - it is noteworthy

but not a worry at the moment - their ratings is in the top 5 shows of TNT

and they can be a benefit to HBO MAX with more hardcore shows

Also - with their buzz, networks will be falling over themselves to get them at the moment I think - especially at their cost

but still..... shakeups are scary


----------



## Bosnian21

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ooof - just read the CEO who basically secured AEW for TNT is out the door
> 
> don’t think it’ll matter
> 
> but it is worth noting


It probably matters in terms of their security at TNT. They orobably won’t have as much leeway in the future if viewership or demo drops. Also, we have no clue of which direction enw leadership will want to go. Do they still want wrestling on their channel? Do they want higher viewership? Etc. 

But I can see other networks wanting to pick them up if they get dropped.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bosnian21 said:


> It probably matters in terms of their security at TNT. They orobably won’t have as much leeway in the future if viewership or demo drops. Also, we have no clue of which direction enw leadership will want to go. Do they still want wrestling on their channel? Do they want higher viewership? Etc.
> 
> But I can see other networks wanting to pick them up if they get dropped.


From the article I read, Warner is getting behind streaming as a massive focus for them now

So, a lot of it might actually depend on AEWs streaming numbers - instead of ratings

and how the do in the socials - there they are tops / which is a great sign


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ooof - just read the CEO who basically secured AEW for TNT is out the door
> 
> don’t think it’ll matter
> 
> but it is worth noting


Lol this falls in line with the real reason WCW went out of business. There was a change in leadership with the TNT and AOL merger and they didn’t think WCW fit their vision of what they wanted for the network. People say Russo and Bischoff and big money contracts were the reason they died, but the merger was the real reason. With that being said though, Dynamite will still be fine. They’re doing well. Worst case scenario they switch networks in 2024.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol this falls in line with the real reason WCW went out of business. There was a change in leadership with the TNT and AOL merger and they didn’t think WCW fit their vision of what they wanted for the network. People say Russo and Bischoff and big money contracts were the reason they died, but the merger was the real reason. With that being said though, Dynamite will still be fine. They’re doing well. Worst case scenario they switch networks in 2024.


I think the key difference was that WCW was owned by Turner / and AEW is not

but yeah - if new guys don’t like, then it will be interesting


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think the key difference was that WCW was owned by Turner / and AEW is not
> 
> but yeah - if new guys don’t like, then it will be interesting


They better fall in line, don’t derail their momentum


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think the key difference was that WCW was owned by Turner / and AEW is not
> 
> but yeah - if new guys don’t like, then it will be interesting


Considering AEW numbers are on the rise as well as the 2nd show coming to a Turner station I think they aren't on any immediate danger. Being a top 5 show nearly every week will keep them around.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> They better fall in line, don’t derail their momentum


The thing is, I think it will also be ‘interesting’ in terms of other networks

you bet your ass other networks will be interested if the contract comes up for sale


----------



## Erik.

Not sure why ratings etc. would matter.

WCW were doing monster ratings when the new guy came in and decided he didn't like wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Not sure why ratings etc. would matter.
> 
> WCW were doing monster ratings when the new guy came in and decided he didn't like wrestling.


Well - he didn’t like the cost

.... and wrestling 

but I think ratings don’t matter - streaming though...... the stuff we don’t see

if AEW does mega app views, which is likely - they will keep being key I think

if not..... yeesh


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The thing is, I think it will also be ‘interesting’ in terms of other networks
> 
> you bet your ass other networks will be interested if the contract comes up for sale


If they can land on a bigger network than TNT, like FOX or something, then that would be glorious. They’re paying a billion dollars for SD for 1.8 ratings when they were expecting 3.0+, so if they can buy AEW for a far cheaper price and get the same ratings in 2024, that would be awesome. More exposure on the bigger network.


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> If they can land on a bigger network than TNT, like FOX or something, then that would be glorious. They’re paying a billion dollars for SD for 1.8 ratings when they were expecting 3.0+, so if they can buy AEW for a far cheaper price and get the same ratings in 2024, that would be awesome. More exposure on the bigger network.


In 18-34 they'd get bigger ratings today


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> If they can land on a bigger network than TNT, like FOX or something, then that would be glorious. They’re paying a billion dollars for SD for 1.8 ratings when they were expecting 3.0+, so if they can buy AEW for a far cheaper price and get the same ratings in 2024, that would be awesome. More exposure on the bigger network.


I’m not quite up to date on USA tv

So, FOX is like the biggest boy out there, right? Free to view for the whole American public?

is USA network like that as well? Or is that on paid tv?

TNT is paid too, isn’t it?

what is the biggest possible Network they can land on?


----------



## Pippen94

Erik. said:


> Not sure why ratings etc. would matter.
> 
> WCW were doing monster ratings when the new guy came in and decided he didn't like wrestling.


That's always a factor but TV ratings have declined across the board & live events which attract viewers are more valuable than before


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m not quite up to date on USA tv
> 
> So, FOX is like the biggest boy out there, right? Free to view for the whole American public?
> 
> is USA network like that as well? Or is that on paid tv?
> 
> TNT is paid too, isn’t it?
> 
> what is the biggest possible Network they can land on?


FOX, ABC, NBC, and CBS are the big 4 in the states, they’re all free and available to everyone, that’s why all of their shows draw monumental amounts of viewers. The fact that SD started at 4 million viewers when they moved to FOX and now they are doing 1.8 and under on such a large network is fuckin terrible. TNT and USA are on cable. Basic cable if I remember correctly is like $30-$50 a month.


----------



## Erik.

Also worth noting, one guy replacing him is Casey Bloys, who helped wind down HBO’s Boxing operations....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Also worth noting, one guy replacing him is Casey Bloys, who helped wind down HBO’s Boxing operations....


Oof

what do you recon Erik - bad signs all around?


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> Also worth noting, one guy replacing him is Casey Bloys, who helped wind down HBO’s Boxing operations....


HBO Boxing was already on it's dead bed before Bloys.

No more Floyd Mayweather and the show was losing money


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> Also worth noting, one guy replacing him is Casey Bloys, who helped wind down HBO’s Boxing operations....


That’s not good lol, if these new guys don’t want wrestling or combat sports on their network then AEW better start planning now


----------



## fabi1982

Chip Chipperson said:


> Right here is all the evidence this board ever needed that the "haters" are far from the issue in the AEW section.
> 
> AEW "Haters": Fuck yeah, AEW got close to a million people! How good is that?!
> 
> Optikk: Oh, the haters are happy this week I better annoyingly mock them and their views whilst my mates cheer me on and tell me how funny I am because I need the attention.
> 
> ---
> 
> Optikk, this just continues your cringe behaviour in these threads. You never debate anyone on their opinion or view and when everyone is getting along and happy you have to divide the fanbase and try to start a fight.
> 
> Worst poster in this section by far.


At first I didnt like you, but you are probably my favorite AEW shill in here now. This is a great post and really shows that we can have fun together even if we have different opinions on the show. Cudos!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> That’s not good lol, if these new guys don’t want wrestling or combat sports on their network then AEW better start planning now


i don’t recon they can just easily cancel the contract - but they can move them to 12 on a Sunday morning or some other BS i suppose


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> That’s not good lol, if these new guys don’t want wrestling or combat sports on their network then AEW better start planning now


AEW would get a contract easily anywhere else. Their successes in consistently drawing the key demo cannot be overlooked.


----------



## Pippen94

Do worry Tony's dad can just buy tnt


----------



## Prosper

Pippen94 said:


> Do worry Tony's dad can just buy tnt


😂 literally


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ooof - just read the CEO who basically secured AEW for TNT is out the door
> 
> don’t think it’ll matter
> 
> but it is worth noting


I'm sure TK was a smart enough person to foster relationships with the rest of TNT, end of the day, TNT gave AEW a shot, they did so well they reupped for 4 years right away.

I doubt that was all a Kevin Reiley decision, hopefully this isn't an issue going foward.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Something that needs to be noted regarding the schedule change due to NBA, yes it sucks, but their is some positive to it.

AEW usually has dog shit lead ins, the one Saturday(I believe 8/22) they are playing Dynamite at 6PM literally right after an NBA playoff game, that is a massive lead in, and a real opportunity to gain new fans.

8/26 they will have a new show, but it will be delayed 2 hours to 10PM-12AM, that sucks but once again, it'll have an NBA game as lead in, that's strong, ON TOP of that, on 8/27, they get another episode of Dynamite at an 8PM, prime time slot without opposition.

TNT has to give priority to NBA, but they were very strategic in placement of the episodes and it was just thrown out with no thought. If you've been watching the NBA games too, they've been promoting the fuck out AEW(primarily Moxley and Shida promos)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Do worry Tony's dad can just buy tnt


dude... that’s true


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Something that needs to be noted regarding the schedule change due to NBA, yes it sucks, but their is some positive to it.
> 
> AEW usually has dog shit lead ins, the one Saturday(I believe 8/22) they are playing Dynamite at 6PM literally right after an NBA playoff game, that is a massive lead in, and a real opportunity to gain new fans.
> 
> 8/26 they will have a new show, but it will be delayed 2 hours to 10PM-12AM, that sucks but once again, it'll have an NBA game as lead in, that's strong, ON TOP of that, on 8/27, they get another episode of Dynamite at an 8PM, prime time slot without opposition.
> 
> TNT has to give priority to NBA, but they were very strategic in placement of the episodes and it was just thrown out with no thought. If you've been watching the NBA games too, they've been promoting the fuck out AEW(primarily Moxley and Shida promos)


all good points

a shuffle like this is also not out of nowhere - if they are promoting AEW during NBA that is a great sign


----------



## Cult03

Dizzie said:


> Yeah they delivered one post of congratulations to aew's numbers and that was that so why cant it be the same when they do a number that is maybe viewed in negative light and just sum up their thoughts in one or 2 posts, what happens instead is you get people just using it as an opportunity to gleefully produce countless toxic posts taking up multiple pages in the thread of trying to paint aew in as much of a negative light as possible.


Actually, when we post anything negative we get the same people just yelling "trolls" or telling us not to watch a hundred times, leading to us having to justify why we watch and enjoy 50% plus of the show. The positive things we say and the positive threads we have created never get any responses from the AEW faithful because if they were to respond to it they'd have to admit we aren't as negative as they're trying to say we are.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Have there been any minute to minute reports? I wasn't paying attention to the clock much.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> This is a bigger heel turn than Stone Cold at WM17 lmao


He's obviously just stealing the Moxley joins Inner Circle thing and trolling like usual.


----------



## RapShepard

Fearless Viper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291471310208425984
> This should be interesting...


I thought the money demo was 18-49 tho


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I thought the money demo was 18-49 tho


18 to 34 is part of that demo.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> 18 to 34 is part of that demo.


Obviously, but it seems weird to tote it if the 18-49 is the bigger more important demo. It's like when folk paraded the female 12-34 thing.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Obviously, but it seems weird to tote it if the 18-49 is the bigger more important demo. It's like when folk paraded the female 12-34 thing.


It shows that AEW is gaining popularity with younger people. Which is a good sign for the company long term. 18 to 49 audience is always most important thing overall.


But 18 to 34 numbers is something ad buyers look at as well. Because that's age people waste the most money on things. 35 to 49 year olds spend money too and ad buyers like them too. But 18 to 34 is even more attractive to them. So it's like added on bonus to be doing strong number here as well.

Doing well in that demo is probably why they have Burger King app scan pop up on the screen during the show. Since they are trying to get younger people wanna order cheese burgers on their app. While they watch the show. Someone in their 20s is more likely to use that. Then someone in early 40s.


I think Dave was pointing out the number in comparison to WWE. Because it's showing that WWE not growing their audience with young people and bad that AEW already able to beat them in that demo. With the gap between the shows being 800,000 or so loyal older fans who've been watching for 20 to 30 years.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> It shows that AEW is gaining popularity with younger people. Which is a good sign for the company long term. 18 to 49 audience is always most important thing overall.
> 
> 
> But 18 to 34 numbers is something ad buyers look at as well. Because that's age people waste the most money on things. 35 to 49 year olds spend money too and ad buyers like them too. But 18 to 34 is even more attractive to them. So it's like added on bonus to be doing strong number here as well.
> 
> Doing well in that demo is probably why they have Burger King app scan pop up on the screen during the show. Since they are trying to get younger people wanna order cheese burgers on their app. While they watch the show. Someone in their 20s is more likely to use that. Then someone in early 40s.
> 
> 
> I think Dave was pointing out the number in comparison to WWE. Because it's showing that WWE not growing their audience with young people and bad that AEW already able to beat them in that demo. With the gap between the shows being 800,000 or so loyal older fans who've been watching for 20 to 30 years.


If it's more attractive why isn't it the key factor? This just comes off like Dave propping up his friends on something they still ultimately loss. It's just funny watching him and Alvarez specifically because they focus on different things when it comes to ratings depending on the show. 

On one hand on Wednesday they'll diminish the importance of total views and any other demo in favor of 18-49, then on Monday when Raw does well in 18-49 suddenly it's the total viewers that matter. Raw typically has at least 2 of it's hours in the top 5 demo wise every week with the 3rd in the top 10. But what Meltzer and Alvarez instead focus on is the total viewer. What we've seen now is them twice focus on non key demo victories for AEW and it's funny considering how they don't do that when NXT wins non-key demo shit. 

As far as a Burger King sponsorship, that's definitely good. Same time it's funny to see praise for them getting Burger King, when WWE was actively mocked for their KFC sponsorship which is a much bigger brand this decade. 

AEW is kicking ass for a new company, but no need to pat their back for non-victories


----------



## Wolf Mark

Erik. said:


> Not sure why ratings etc. would matter.
> 
> WCW were doing monster ratings when the new guy came in and decided he didn't like wrestling.


Are you kidding? They went from doing 5 point ratings to the 2s and lower. Their last rating was like 1.6 or something. Which was horrible for the time.


----------



## Wolf Mark

AEW’s viewership edge over NXT held across all quarters on Aug. 5

*Q1: AEW* _943K (460K)_ - *NXT* 820K (232K)
The Elite, Hangman Page & FTR vs. Dark Order *vs.* Dakota Kai vs. Rhea Ripley

*Q2: AEW* _943K (479K)_ - *NXT* 777K (252K)
End of 12 man tag/Jon Moxley interview *vs.* End of Kai vs. Ripley/Bronson Reed vs. Shane Thorne

*Q3: AEW* _885K (451K)_ - *NXT* 771K (263K)
Santana & Ortiz vs. Best Friends *vs.* Fandango kidnapping/Robert Stone interview

*Q4: AEW* _919K (460K)_ - *NXT* 756K (285K)
MJF vignette/Matt Hardy & Sammy Guevara segment/Sue’s van trashed *vs.* Oney Lorcan vs. Damian Priest vs. Ridge Holland

*Q5: AEW* _915K (471K)_ - *NXT* 759K (263K)
Cody & Matt Cardona vs. Dark Order *vs.* Keith Lee vs. Cameron Grimes

*Q6: AEW* _918K (487K)_ - *NXT* 700K (242K)
Orange Cassidy vs. Chris Jericho debate *vs.* Keith Lee & Karrion Kross segment/William Regal announcement/Legado del Fantama segment

*Q7: AEW* _825K (427K)_ - *NXT* 730K (255K)
End of debate/Britt Baker interview & Reba vs. Big Swole *vs*. Pat McAfee & Adam Cole video package/Indi Hartwell vs. Tegan Nox

*Q8: AEW* _863K (450K)_ - *NXT *713K (249K)
Jon Moxley vs. Darby Allin *vs.* Imperium vs. Undisputed ERA/McAfee & Cole angle

---------

Sometime I find hard to figure out people's behaviors like for Segment 6, NXT lost almost 60 thousand viewers but these people did not switch to AEW either cause Dynamite only gained 3 thousand. Where did these people go? Don't know. Maybe they just didn't feel like watching talking segments like both shows had at that moment? That's a possibility. 

NXT gave AEW good competition on the last segment but Dynamite gained. You have to understand, as a TNA fan I'm not used to this, the last segment back in the day was often a rating loss. lol It was maddening to watch.

The rest of the chart speaks for itself.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Obviously, but it seems weird to tote it if the 18-49 is the bigger more important demo. It's like when folk paraded the female 12-34 thing.


18-36 is the most important part of the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I love how every week things change ratings wise.

Originally it was overall rating until AEW started dropping in that.

Then it became 18-49 because AEW consistently win that one no matter how bad their shows are.

Now they might've come close to WWE in something and the goalposts move again this time 18-35 is the most important sub demographic of the 18-49 demographic therefore if AEW beats WWE in the most important sub demographic inside the demographic then they are better because it's the most important.

It's so difficult to follow with some of you guys. Demographics, sub demographics, I saw something about 12 year old girls allegedly tuning into AEW also. All this just to be able to celebrate some random victory over Vince McMahon and the evil WWE.

It's weird.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RapShepard said:


> If it's more attractive why isn't it the key factor? This just comes off like Dave propping up his friends on something they still ultimately loss. It's just funny watching him and Alvarez specifically because they focus on different things when it comes to ratings depending on the show.
> 
> On one hand on Wednesday they'll diminish the importance of total views and any other demo in favor of 18-49, then on Monday when Raw does well in 18-49 suddenly it's the total viewers that matter. Raw typically has at least 2 of it's hours in the top 5 demo wise every week with the 3rd in the top 10. But what Meltzer and Alvarez instead focus on is the total viewer. What we've seen now is them twice focus on non key demo victories for AEW and it's funny considering how they don't do that when NXT wins non-key demo shit.
> 
> As far as a Burger King sponsorship, that's definitely good. Same time it's funny to see praise for them getting Burger King, when WWE was actively mocked for their KFC sponsorship which is a much bigger brand this decade.
> 
> AEW is kicking ass for a new company, but no need to pat their back for non-victories


Raw’s demos are down worse than their overall viewers. Just this week alone, their demo was down 36% from last year and total viewership down 30%.

Raw’s done nothing in over 5 years to deserve praise for any ratings, demo or viewers. 

They’ve lost a permanent segment of their audience due to Covid, while AEW hasn’t. That should tell you the type of dire condition WWE is in. 

AEW will be the death of WWE on Cable TV and here’s why. If AEW can beat Raw in demos while getting paid relative pennies compared to Raw/Smackdown to do it, what do you think that is going to do when WWE tries to negotiate new TV deals? They already are in trouble due to their own declines but before AEW they could still make the claim they were the only live wrestling show out there. Now they can’t. 

AEW can draw similar or better demos at a fraction of the cost. Right now. After only 9 months on air. So how you think WWE is going to negotiate with Fox/NBC given that situation? At worst Fox/USA cancel Raw to try to get AEW (like what Sky sports in England I believe has done because AEW is cheaper). Or it forces WWE to take far less $$$$ from USA/NBC. It’s a bad situation for WWE which is why Vince tried to kill AEW by putting NXT against them and has failed miserably.

Bryan and Dave aren’t going to sugar coat it.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love how every week things change ratings wise.
> 
> Originally it was overall rating until AEW started dropping in that.
> 
> Then it became 18-49 because AEW consistently win that one no matter how bad their shows are.
> 
> Now they might've come close to WWE in something and the goalposts move again this time 18-35 is the most important sub demographic of the 18-49 demographic therefore if AEW beats WWE in the most important sub demographic inside the demographic then they are better because it's the most important.
> 
> It's so difficult to follow with some of you guys. Demographics, sub demographics, I saw something about 12 year old girls allegedly tuning into AEW also. All this just to be able to celebrate some random victory over Vince McMahon and the evil WWE.
> 
> It's weird.


Here's it is in nutshell; raw declined 30% from this time last year & lost 25% of ratings from year before that. Aew holding firm & is catching in demos


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Obviously, but it seems weird to tote it if the 18-49 is the bigger more important demo. It's like when folk paraded the female 12-34 thing.





Chip Chipperson said:


> I love how every week things change ratings wise.
> 
> Originally it was overall rating until AEW started dropping in that.
> 
> Then it became 18-49 because AEW consistently win that one no matter how bad their shows are.
> 
> Now they might've come close to WWE in something and the goalposts move again this time 18-35 is the most important sub demographic of the 18-49 demographic therefore if AEW beats WWE in the most important sub demographic inside the demographic then they are better because it's the most important.
> 
> It's so difficult to follow with some of you guys. Demographics, sub demographics, I saw something about 12 year old girls allegedly tuning into AEW also. All this just to be able to celebrate some random victory over Vince McMahon and the evil WWE.
> 
> It's weird.


Jesus Christ, it's almost like you guys want to stay willfully ignorant. Some people want to learn, and some people just want to say "Why are you even bringing that up?".

I'll tell you why it's important, even though it should be incredibly easy to grasp. Yes, 18-49 is the money demo, advertisers care about that and that dictates your present. However, what happens as time goes on?

People Age, in 5 years, those 45-49 year olds in the demo, are no longer in the demo, in 10 years, people 40-49 are no longer in the demo etc.

18-34 not only is beneficial in dictating your current day advertising climate, it also dictates the future of your company, and the fact that AEW with head to head competition beat RAW in that demographic, that is something that should absolutely be celebrated internally at AEW.

And for the record, Meltzer brought up 18-34 literally every week, you guys don't read the observer, so obviously you are going to remain ignorant to that.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Here's it is in nutshell; raw declined 30% from this time last year & lost 25% of ratings from year before that. Aew holding firm & is catching in demos


But how many viewers demo wise and total gained AEW since last year? Even if we dont count the shows doing over a million (first two?!) there is no gain in AEW either. I just dont see a „holding firm“ and „catching in demos“?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love how every week things change ratings wise.
> 
> Originally it was overall rating until AEW started dropping in that.
> 
> Then it became 18-49 because AEW consistently win that one no matter how bad their shows are.
> 
> Now they might've come close to WWE in something and the goalposts move again this time 18-35 is the most important sub demographic of the 18-49 demographic therefore if AEW beats WWE in the most important sub demographic inside the demographic then they are better because it's the most important.
> 
> It's so difficult to follow with some of you guys. Demographics, sub demographics, I saw something about 12 year old girls allegedly tuning into AEW also. All this just to be able to celebrate some random victory over Vince McMahon and the evil WWE.
> 
> It's weird.


it’s not hard to follow

if you take note, even though we are at 900k overall - everybody is saying they key demo being 0.36 is amazing

the 18-36 being better than RAW is anecdotal - but does say “AEW is getting a younger audience than RAW’ - which is huge

but don’t worry, they wont ‘beat’ RAW until they beat them in the key demo

but there is no reason to act like winning a semi-final is also not important - that is what this is


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> But how many viewers demo wise and total gained AEW since last year? Even if we dont count the shows doing over a million (first two?!) there is no gain in AEW either. I just dont see a „holding firm“ and „catching in demos“?!











There’s your catching in demos and staying firm.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> But how many viewers demo wise and total gained AEW since last year? Even if we dont count the shows doing over a million (first two?!) there is no gain in AEW either. I just dont see a „holding firm“ and „catching in demos“?!


This week Aew recorded its biggest rating in demo for year.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> There’s your catching in demos and staying firm.


I feel like it's worthless talking to some people because anyone can spin stats to paint their narrative. Like if I were to use Smackdown's FOX premiere, and compare it to now, the numbers would be disgusting.

But I know doing that is dumb as fuck, it's not evident to the long term picture, but that's not as baity as a statement like "AEW went from 1.4 million viewers to 900k in 10 months!, they lost 40% of their audience!", but we both know why a statement like that is dumb as fuck, so I won't engage in that rhetoric.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it’s not hard to follow
> 
> if you take note, even though we are at 900k overall - everybody is saying they key demo being 0.36 is amazing
> 
> the 18-36 being better than RAW is anecdotal - but does say “AEW is getting a younger audience than RAW’ - which is huge
> 
> but don’t worry, they wont ‘beat’ RAW until they beat them in the key demo
> 
> but there is no reason to act like winning a semi-final is also not important - that is what this is


No - the fact aew beat both raw & smackdoen in 18-34 for first time is significant. It's one of 9 main demos & demonstrates trend many of those who follow ratings have been talking about for awhile


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> There’s your catching in demos and staying firm.


Compred to beginning of this year isnt quite right and you know that. Taking a part which makes the most sense to answering my question actually doesnt answer my question. I dont argue that WWE ratings are going down, but neither does AEW ratings go up, just because they did the last two weeks?!


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> This week Aew recorded its biggest rating in demo for year.


Still lower than what they started with and what they got end of 2019. So just because it tops the early 2020 ratings means the ratings back then were low and I remember the discussions starting of AEW going down back then. But you will spin your AEW image so it fits your thoughts like you always do, or to say it in your words:

„you stupid, I right with said what I“


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Compred to beginning of this year isnt quite right and you know that. Taking a part which makes the most sense to answering my question actually doesnt answer my question. I dont argue that WWE ratings are going down, but neither does AEW ratings go up, just because they did the last two weeks?!


This post makes no sense. You said that you couldn’t see AEW staying firm or “catching with the demo” but the evidence I have given you proves exactly that. If you wish to close your eyes, that’s ok. It doesn’t bother me. I’m just glad to see VKM making an effort on RAW now. That catch up may not occur.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Still lower than what they started with and *what they got end of 2019*. So just because it tops the early 2020 ratings means the ratings back then were low and I remember the discussions starting of AEW going down back then. But you will spin your AEW image so it fits your thoughts like you always do, or to say it in your words:
> 
> „you stupid, I right with said what I“


🤔🤥


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I feel like it's worthless talking to some people because anyone can spin stats to paint their narrative. Like if I were to use Smackdown's FOX premiere, and compare it to now, the numbers would be disgusting.
> 
> But I know doing that is dumb as fuck, it's not evident to the long term picture, but that's not as baity as a statement like "AEW went from 1.4 million viewers to 900k in 10 months!, they lost 40% of their audience!", but we both know why a statement like that is dumb as fuck, so I won't engage in that rhetoric.


You don't think AEW or WWE are good enough to retain their audience? The people left because they weren't interested in following it. There was no hook for them to tune in next week and if there was it wasn't sufficient.

It's not a knock on AEW it's a knock on both companies. Neither offered a show good enough to retain the audience if they had put on a brilliant show they'd have maintained their respective original ratings.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't think AEW or WWE are good enough to retain their audience? The people left because they weren't interested in following it. There was no hook for them to tune in next week and if there was it wasn't sufficient.
> 
> It's not a knock on AEW it's a knock on both companies. Neither offered a show good enough to retain the audience if they had put on a brilliant show they'd have maintained their respective original ratings.


I'm not even going to argue this point, if you think they didn't offer a good hook 10 Months ago fine, that's your opinion.

AEW dynamite episode 1 premiere and Smackdown Fox premiere were garbage, in a hypothetical world, let's say I agree with that.

Why is that the narrative we are even painting? Should the narrative be, okay, AEW fucked up in a grandiose way early on, I mean they did in fact crater from 1.4 million viewers to 666k in 6 weeks, that's a big failure, right? 

That was 10 MONTHS AGO, things have changed, they have become a much better product, and unlike every other Wrestling show during the pandemic that has taken a big hit(Impact included), AEW has put up their best number in FOUR months, and their best demo number in FIVE months.

Using the whole "Smackdown premiere drew 4 MILLION Viewers now they are at 1.8!!" and "AEW Started at 1.4 and now they are at 900K!!!" is a lazy argument, it's not indicative of the long term picture.

However, if you have been studying the numbers and demo, week by week, you would've noticed that in 18-34, RAW was falling, and AEW was slowly but surely gaining, it came to an intersection point this week, and AEW won, that is a significant milestone. That is a long term pattern, not a 1 week high, that's what people are failing to comprehend.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> There’s your catching in demos and staying firm.


gently touching tips soon


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> No - the fact aew beat both raw & smackdoen in 18-34 for first time is significant. It's one of 9 main demos & demonstrates trend many of those who follow ratings have been talking about for awhile


Lol - i agree

i concur

i am an advocate of it

what of my post made it look like I wasn’t?


----------



## Wolf Mark

Maybe I'm old school but I always prefer to go with the rating first, the viewership second and demo third. Bear in mind that they don't give you the rating anymore, it's just viewership. But I just think it's more the real number. And look yea for sure it's cool that AEW are great in the demo given that executives care about it cause it's the age group that they want, that spend the money but it's far more rewarding when it's the whole total viewership or the hard rating number cause it's a more clear win. So that you don't have to try getting water from a stone, it's there. A larger segment of the popuation loves your product. 

TV executives have always longed for the 18-34 or 18-49 and I remember during the Must-See-TV days they were aiming for the demo but the ratings and viewers were huge in pretty much every freaking demos. So you should not just fucking focus on that demo, esp. since TNT doesn't have NBC numbers. Aim for a home run. It's amazing what they are doing in the demo for sure. But let's get all the wins, shall we. AEW is in an amazing place right now.


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> I love how every week things change ratings wise.
> 
> Originally it was overall rating until AEW started dropping in that.
> 
> Then it became 18-49 because AEW consistently win that one no matter how bad their shows are.
> 
> Now they might've come close to WWE in something and the goalposts move again this time 18-35 is the most important sub demographic of the 18-49 demographic therefore if AEW beats WWE in the most important sub demographic inside the demographic then they are better because it's the most important.
> 
> It's so difficult to follow with some of you guys. Demographics, sub demographics, I saw something about 12 year old girls allegedly tuning into AEW also. All this just to be able to celebrate some random victory over Vince McMahon and the evil WWE.
> 
> It's weird.


I'm going to be honest here. To me personally it has always been about the actual viewer rating. It wasn't until I got on this forum did I realize people go into breaking down viewership so much. I mean we are all already geeking out over ratings, and then it just makes it even worse when people start breaking down the demos and talking about advertisers and all this crazy stuff like they own a part of the company. Just my opinion though.


----------



## Joe Gill

Did TNA ever beat RAW or SmackDown in any type of rating? ever? I dont think so. Bottom line is that this is the first time this century WWEs flagship program has been defeated by another wrestling show in one of the most important demographics... and it wasnt an anomaly like a debut show. .... and it really shouldnt surprise anyone. When you compare the products right now it is clear that AEW is targeting that audience a lot better than WWE is. I think its only a matter of time before AEW beats RAW in the 18-49 demo. Wouldnt be surprised if it happens by next year.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol - i agree
> 
> i concur
> 
> i am an advocate of it
> 
> what of my post made it look like I wasn’t?


I know but i just wanted to make that point


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Joe Gill said:


> Did TNA ever beat RAW or SmackDown in any type of rating? ever? I dont think so. Bottom line is that this is the first time this century WWEs flagship program has been defeated by another wrestling show in one of the most important demographics... and it wasnt an anomaly like a debut show. .... and it really shouldnt surprise anyone. When you compare the products right now it is clear that AEW is targeting that audience a lot better than WWE is. I think its only a matter of time before AEW beats RAW in the 18-49 demo. Wouldnt be surprised if it happens by next year.


TNA lmao.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> 18-36 is the most important part of the 18-49 demo.


Since when? There's a reason when NXT had more viewers for 3 weeks folk were screaming about 18-49 being the most important and not 18-34. AEW is doing great no need to cartwheel over non-victories. 




Randy Lahey said:


> Raw’s demos are down worse than their overall viewers. Just this week alone, their demo was down 36% from last year and total viewership down 30%.
> 
> Raw’s done nothing in over 5 years to deserve praise for any ratings, demo or viewers.
> 
> They’ve lost a permanent segment of their audience due to Covid, while AEW hasn’t. That should tell you the type of dire condition WWE is in.
> 
> AEW will be the death of WWE on Cable TV and here’s why. If AEW can beat Raw in demos while getting paid relative pennies compared to Raw/Smackdown to do it, what do you think that is going to do when WWE tries to negotiate new TV deals? They already are in trouble due to their own declines but before AEW they could still make the claim they were the only live wrestling show out there. Now they can’t.
> 
> AEW can draw similar or better demos at a fraction of the cost. Right now. After only 9 months on air. So how you think WWE is going to negotiate with Fox/NBC given that situation? At worst Fox/USA cancel Raw to try to get AEW (like what Sky sports in England I believe has done because AEW is cheaper). Or it forces WWE to take far less $$$$ from USA/NBC. It’s a bad situation for WWE which is why Vince tried to kill AEW by putting NXT against them and has failed miserably.
> 
> Bryan and Dave aren’t going to sugar coat it.


See the issue with this whole thing is it ignores 2 things Raw is still USA's top show and when AEW goes to renegotiate they won't be getting pennies. They're getting pennies now because they had no data. Folk are doing this wildly stupid thing of acting like if AEW walks into renegotiate with Raw type numbers they're not going to get a Raw type deal. What's more likely to happen is they both get a bigger deal next time because cable will be dying even more and the need for live content will be even greater. 




Pippen94 said:


> Here's it is in nutshell; raw declined 30% from this time last year & lost 25% of ratings from year before that. Aew holding firm & is catching in demos


Yup their shit is down, yet it's still top 5. AEW is certainly killing shit no need to pat on the back for non wins



RelivingTheShadow said:


> Jesus Christ, it's almost like you guys want to stay willfully ignorant. Some people want to learn, and some people just want to say "Why are you even bringing that up?".
> 
> I'll tell you why it's important, even though it should be incredibly easy to grasp. Yes, 18-49 is the money demo, advertisers care about that and that dictates your present. However, what happens as time goes on?
> 
> People Age, in 5 years, those 45-49 year olds in the demo, are no longer in the demo, in 10 years, people 40-49 are no longer in the demo etc.
> 
> 18-34 not only is beneficial in dictating your current day advertising climate, it also dictates the future of your company, and the fact that AEW with head to head competition beat RAW in that demographic, that is something that should absolutely be celebrated internally at AEW.
> 
> And for the record, Meltzer brought up 18-34 literally every week, you guys don't read the observer, so obviously you are going to remain ignorant to that.


Yet nobody in here was toting 18-34 not was in here toting 18-34 before this week. 18-34 wasn't a thing until they had a week were they in average did better. So even if he's talking about it in the observer the folk that pay for it weren't toting it because they know it wasn't the important one


----------



## Dizzie

Cult03 said:


> Actually, when we post anything negative we get the same people just yelling "trolls" or telling us not to watch a hundred times, leading to us having to justify why we watch and enjoy 50% plus of the show. The positive things we say and the positive threads we have created never get any responses from the AEW faithful because if they were to respond to it they'd have to admit we aren't as negative as they're trying to say we are.


It doesn't help when you snipe at aew for literally anything because


Cult03 said:


> Actually, when we post anything negative we get the same people just yelling "trolls" or telling us not to watch a hundred times, leading to us having to justify why we watch and enjoy 50% plus of the show. *The positive things we say and the positive threads we have created* never get any responses from the AEW faithful because if they were to respond to it they'd have to admit we aren't as negative as they're trying to say we are.


Is there such a thing haha


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Yet nobody in here was toting 18-34 not was in here toting 18-34 before this week. 18-34 wasn't a thing until they had a week were they in average did better. So even if he's talking about it in the observer the folk that pay for it weren't toting it because they know it wasn't the important one


That's because they were losing in the demo, which is what SHOULD be happening, what should be happening is not news, in no universe should AEW Dynamite, a show with head to head competition beat RAW in 18-34.

The fact that it happened made it news, and it's a huge milestone. People were comparing AEW and NXT in 18-34, at least some people were, I took a while off from posting in this board for a while,but what this board thinks matters, isn't entirely indicative of what actually matters.

Most on this site are not educated in this side of the business as evident by you and chip, I'm just trying to educate you as to why 18-34 is important.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ALSO...... i reserve the right to crow about any win on the AEW fan board 

especially in this stupid thread


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> That's because they were losing in the demo, which is what SHOULD be happening, what should be happening is not news, in no universe should AEW Dynamite, a show with head to head competition beat RAW in 18-34.
> 
> The fact that it happened made it news, and it's a huge milestone. People were comparing AEW and NXT in 18-34, at least some people were, I took a while off from posting in this board for a while,but what this board thinks matters, isn't entirely indicative of what actually matters.
> 
> Most on this site are not educated in this side of the business as evident by you and chip, I'm just trying to educate you as to why 18-34 is important.


It's just funny to that people were downplaying WWEs 50+ demo or total viewer wins as unimportant because it's not the key 18-49 demo. Yet suddenly non-key demos matter. When @The Wood @Chip Chipperson and @Cult03 were talking about viewers and other demos they were being shot down, because those weren't the demo that mattered. Now all of a sudden 18-34 matters this week, just like the female 12-34 randomly mattered s couple weeks ago. It just comes off as desperate to celebrate a win that hasn't happened yet.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> It's just funny to that people were downplaying WWEs 50+ demo or total viewer wins as unimportant because it's not the key 18-49 demo. Yet suddenly non-key demos matter. When @The Wood @Chip Chipperson and @Cult03 were talking about viewers and other demos they were being shot down, because those weren't the demo that mattered. Now all of a sudden 18-34 matters this week, just like the female 12-34 randomly mattered s couple weeks ago. It just comes off as desperate to celebrate a win that hasn't happened yet.


Yeah, I don't care what other people think. But it's obvious you are uneducated on this topic, I made a post why 18-34 is really important, if you can't understand that, and want to label it "All of a sudden it matters", I don't know what to tell you. It's a STORY now, a STORY, because AEW beat RAW. It has ALWAYS mattered, I don't care if some people didn't bring it up, I don't follow every post because this ratings thread is a meme, and people have melt downs over OC doing poorly in one quarter hour and calling for his push to be axed. That's literally the type of people that infest this thread,

Most of this board is uneducated about viewership and ratings, I try to make points that actually bring up significant points like the one I made about the schedule getting changed, and hopefully some people can take something away from what I post.

And let me add, 50+ demo is pretty worthless, but again, that's you being uneducated about how TV ratings work, if you would like me to explain that I can.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Yeah, I don't care what other people think. But it's obvious you are uneducated on this topic, I made a post why 18-34 is really important, if you can't understand that, and want to label it "All of a sudden it matters", I don't know what to tell you. It's a STORY now, a STORY, because AEW beat RAW. It has ALWAYS mattered, I don't care if some people didn't bring it up, I don't follow every post because this ratings thread is a meme, and people have melt downs over OC doing poorly in one quarter hour and calling for his push to be axed. That's literally the type of people that infest this thread,
> 
> Most of this board is uneducated about viewership and ratings, I try to make points that actually bring up significant points like the one I made about the schedule getting changed, and hopefully some people can take something away from what I post.
> 
> And let me add, 50+ demo is pretty worthless, but again, that's you being uneducated about how TV ratings work, if you would like me to explain that I can.


All of what you're talking about is irrelevant to what I'm actually talking about though. I'm not talking about advertisers, I'm talking about this board and whats deemed important. It's a no brainer why 18-34 would matter, it's a part of 18-49 and it's the younger side of it. That's irrelevant to my genuine amusement about folk on this board suddenly caring about this non-key demo win. I'm one of the few that weekly points out "yo this is typically a top 10 show, they're doing great". But watching folk celebrate a win in demo they'd call unimportant if NXT did higher in it, is hilarious.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> All of what you're talking about is irrelevant to what I'm actually talking about though. I'm not talking about advertisers, I'm talking about this board and whats deemed important. It's a no brainer why 18-34 would matter, it's a part of 18-49 and it's the younger side of it. That's irrelevant to my genuine amusement about folk on this board suddenly caring about this non-key demo win. I'm one of the few that weekly points out "yo this is typically a top 10 show, they're doing great". But watching folk celebrate a win in demo they'd call unimportant if NXT did higher in it, is hilarious.


How do you know they'd call it unimportant if NXT won that demo? If they did that would be a factually dumb thing to do.

If you're talking about ratings, you should be talking about it from what's relevant from a business standpoint. Who gives a shit about these numbers if it's not relevant to business metrics.

That's why ratings have become such a big deal, the TV deals are the lifeline of both companies, and the demo's are incredibly relevant to that discussion.

How you can't comprehend AEW beating RAW of all things, the show that has been on for 30 years, the show that is unopposed, in a key demographic is important, you are clueless.

And it's indicative to the long term trajectory of both companies.

I think the majority of this board understands demo ratings are what important, but a lot of you can't comprehend the more specific minutiae of these numbers, for example, you complaining about people downplaying 50+ viewership, when that is entirely valid to do.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> How do you know they'd call it unimportant if NXT won that demo? If they did that would be a factually dumb thing to do.
> 
> If you're talking about ratings, you should be talking about it from what's relevant from a business standpoint. Who gives a shit about these numbers if it's not relevant to business metrics.
> 
> That's why ratings have become such a big deal, the TV deals are the lifeline of both companies, and the demo's are incredibly relevant to that discussion.
> 
> How you can't comprehend AEW beating RAW of all things, the show that has been on for 30 years, the show that is unopposed, in a key demographic is important, you are clueless.
> 
> And it's indicative to the long term trajectory of both companies.


Because unlike you I've been in this thread weekly when ratings come out. This 18-34 thing would be shot down if NXT had higher in it, because it's not the key demo. If AEW can sustain it then it'll be important, but as of now a one time victory in a non-key demo is hardly something to do cartwheels and backflips about. Hell when you actually even look at the numbers they only beat the average because the 1st hour of Raw did poor with females so it brought the average down a lot. In reality they really only beat Raw in the 12-34 female demo from 8-9


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Because unlike you I've been in this thread weekly when ratings come out. This 18-34 thing would be shot down if NXT had higher in it, because it's not the key demo. If AEW can sustain it then it'll be important, but as of now a one time victory in a non-key demo is hardly something to do cartwheels and backflips about. Hell when you actually even look at the numbers they only beat the average because the 1st hour of Raw did poor with females so it brought the average down a lot. In reality they really only beat Raw in the 12-34 female demo from 8-9


I saw you mention the viewers thing, total viewers matters little, 18-34 is way more important, so people are right to downplay that.

And once again, you are uneducated about what's actually going, why this was a milestone, and people at other boards have been bringing this up(but not here because again, many refuse to learn) for a while, there has been a slow but sure rate as to 18-34 viewers falling on Monday, but rising on Wednesday for Dynamite, this is a trend that dates back to pre-pandemic, and was expedited by the pandemic.

This past week was the intersection point, so that's why it became a story, because the inevitable finally happened. I'm sorry that this board was too slow to pick up on it, but in reality, it's been happening for 6 months. That's actual long term change, not the 3 week hot shot booking viewership gain NXT got that you were touting, which again, is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Mister Sinister

So much bickering after they put the stank NXT's ass. Could it mean some aren't happy if AEW improves their writing and rating. Could it be some in here just want them to die.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Mister Sinister said:


> So much bickering after they put the stank NXT's ass. Could it mean some aren't happy if AEW improves their writing and rating. Could it be some in here just want them to die.


I mean, what's funny to me is that people don't even want to learn and hold on to their same opinions forever, I can't remember who, but one poster was bitching about the fact that two Dark Order matches would kill Dynamite's rating this past week, and the two DO segments were two of the biggest of the night, with the opening match peaking at over 1 million.

If OC draws next week like he did this week, you think all the OC haters are going to continue to insist he can't draw because of a quarter hour rating from June?


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I saw you mention the viewers thing, total viewers matters little, 18-34 is way more important, so people are right to downplay that.
> 
> And once again, you are uneducated about what's actually going, why this was a milestone, and people at other boards have been bringing this up(but not here because again, many refuse to learn) for a while, there has been a slow but sure rate as to 18-34 viewers falling on Monday, but rising on Wednesday for Dynamite, this is a trend that dates back to pre-pandemic, and was expedited by the pandemic.
> 
> This past week was the intersection point, so that's why it became a story, because the inevitable finally happened. I'm sorry that this board was too slow to pick up on it, but in reality, it's been happening for 6 months. That's actual long term change, not the 3 week hot shot booking viewership gain NXT got that you were touting, which again, is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.


Are we on other boards, or are we on this board? Again here folk weren't tracking 18-34 and boasting it's importance until Dave said something about it. What you're talking about has 0 to do with what I'm talking about, which is why it's important to know what you're arguing about before you start arguing. I'm specifically talking about the hypocrisy of "only the key demo matters" suddenly going out the window in this thread. What you're talking has nothing to do that.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Are we on other boards, or are we on this board? Again here folk weren't tracking 18-34 and boasting it's importance until Dave said something about it. What you're talking about has 0 to do with what I'm talking about, which is why it's important to know what you're arguing about before you start arguing. I'm specifically talking about the hypocrisy of "only the key demo matters" suddenly going out the window in this thread. What you're talking has nothing to do that.


The Key Demo does matter the most, 18-34 is a Key demo. There are multiple Key demos.

You are bringing up viewership, and people downplaying 50+, those are not key metrics.

And you were the one that said not to get worked up over a one week rating regarding the 18-34 demo, when in reality the 18-34 thing has been building for months leading to this win, you just didn't realize it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Joe Gill said:


> Did TNA ever beat RAW or SmackDown in any type of rating? ever?


TNA didn't have fans that were so obsessed with beating Vince McMahon that they went into sub demographics of demographics to find out that at 9:22 PM TNA had more 7-12 year olds watching than WWE.

TNA fans were super weird about beating WWE also but the AEW fans take the cake. With TNA fans it was always about overall viewership so there could've been countless times Impact beat RAW or Smackdown but we never found out about it.



Dizzie said:


> Is there such a thing haha


We all have, Cult03 made a post about guys AEW could sign and have as future stars or something like that. It reached maybe 4 pages maximum. Nobody wanted to talk about it because it was a positive thread.

My most recent thread was positive trying to talk about the new TV show they're doing. That one reached 2 pages.

Meanwhile, I've made threads in the past that are negative and they all hit a minimum of 6 pages.with some getting hundreds of posts and thousands of views.

The more common example though is how week to week we go into the AEW Dynamite thread, say what we liked and disliked only for people to argue our negatives instead of discussing what we liked.

And then there is this thread where we weren't negative at all so Optikk had to try and bait us all because he wanted us to be negative and fight with him. Yet somehow we are always painted as the problem...



RapShepard said:


> It's just funny to that people were downplaying WWEs 50+ demo or total viewer wins as unimportant because it's not the key 18-49 demo. Yet suddenly non-key demos matter. When @The Wood @Chip Chipperson and @Cult03 were talking about viewers and other demos they were being shot down, because those weren't the demo that mattered. Now all of a sudden 18-34 matters this week, just like the female 12-34 randomly mattered s couple weeks ago. It just comes off as desperate to celebrate a win that hasn't happened yet.


It is desperation and it is kind of sad just how desperate the fans are for AEW to win. When/if AEW does win then what? Lets hypothetically say next week AEW does 2.5 million viewers and beats RAW what does it do for an individual?

Nobody here sees any benefit, AEW itself would have something cool and new to market but they'd only get maybe a month of positives out of it until people stopped caring and moved on. If AEW beat RAW it wouldn't suddenly change my mind on AEW generally being a half good half bad show nor would it change most peoples so I don't know why the desperation is there to beat WWE. 

In a week it'll suddenly be "AEW won 18-24 and 18-24 is the most important sub demographic therefore AEW is better than WWE". It's weird.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The Key Demo does matter the most, 18-34 is a Key demo. There are multiple Key demos.
> 
> You are bringing up viewership, and people downplaying 50+, those are not key metrics.


Fucking Christ you still don't get it lol. You think you do, but you clearly don't lol. You're so busy trying to "educate" that you don't even know what you're arguing against. 

If I say "yo when did this board start caring about 18-34 lol" you responding with "18-34 has always mattered to advertisers" doesn't address what I'm talking about. You're talking about advertisers, I'm talking about discussions that have been happening in this thread. Clearly everything listed on the chart matters to some degree or they wouldn't be charting. But that's not what I'm discussing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ you still don't get it lol. You think you do, but you clearly don't lol. You're so busy trying to "educate" that you don't even know what you're arguing against.
> 
> If I say "yo when did this board start caring about 18-34 lol" you responding with "18-34 has always mattered to advertisers" doesn't address what I'm talking about. You're talking about advertisers, I'm talking about discussions that have been happening in this thread. Clearly everything listed on the chart matters to some degree or they wouldn't be charting. But that's not what I'm discussing.


The answer you want to hear is

’it started mattering when we started winning’

there you go


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ you still don't get it lol. You think you do, but you clearly don't lol. You're so busy trying to "educate" that you don't even know what you're arguing against.
> 
> If I say "yo when did this board start caring about 18-34 lol" you responding with "18-34 has always mattered to advertisers" doesn't address what I'm talking about. You're talking about advertisers, I'm talking about discussions that have been happening in this thread. Clearly everything listed on the chart matters to some degree or they wouldn't be charting. But that's not what I'm discussing.


It mattered because it became a story this week, AEW beating RAW in 18-34 just should not happen. It did, and now it became a story. 

For example, Walmart sells more than your local mom and pop shop every month, but no one talks about it because it doesn't happen, it just shouldn't happen, but then the local mom and pop sells more, and it becomes a discussion point.

If you wanna say it's just because AEW is winning, that's valid, but understand that AEW winning this demo is a big deal.

But you made other points during this discussion that shows you don't get it, like talking about people downplaying 50+, people downplaying overall viewers, one week 18-34 doesn't matter in the long term.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> It is desperation and it is kind of sad just how desperate the fans are for AEW to win. When/if AEW does win then what? Lets hypothetically say next week AEW does 2.5 million viewers and beats RAW what does it do for an individual?
> 
> Nobody here sees any benefit, AEW itself would have something cool and new to market but they'd only get maybe a month of positives out of it until people stopped caring and moved on. If AEW beat RAW it wouldn't suddenly change my mind on AEW generally being a half good half bad show nor would it change most peoples so I don't know why the desperation is there to beat WWE.
> 
> In a week it'll suddenly be "AEW won 18-24 and 18-24 is the most important sub demographic therefore AEW is better than WWE". It's weird.


I mean I get wanting them to win, it's something fun about rooting for your team. For me it's just funny that now this demo suddenly matters, just like a few weeks ago females viewers under 34 suddenly mattered. It just reminds me of when fans of a fighter will gloat about a round they won in an overall loss. 




LifeInCattleClass said:


> The answer you want to hear is
> 
> ’it started mattering when we started winning’
> 
> there you go


 at least you get what I'm being a dick about. Like fuck it's not hard to get.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow, you keep saying RapShepard doesn't understand television or television ratings so I'm curious as to what your background in television is.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It mattered because it became a story this week, AEW beating RAW in 18-34 just should not happen. It did, and now it became a story.
> 
> For example, Walmart sells more than your local mom and pop shop every month, but no one talks about it because it doesn't happen, it just shouldn't happen, but then the local mom and pop sells more, and it becomes a discussion point.
> 
> If you wanna say it's just because AEW is winning, that's valid, but understand that AEW winning this demo is a big deal.
> 
> *But you made other points during this discussion that shows you don't get it, like talking about people downplaying 50+, people downplaying overall viewers, one week 18-34 doesn't matter in the long term.*


No it's just you that doesn't get it lol. Those points are being loss on you because you're so determined to educate lol. I'm going to explain it one more time for you. 

If I say "yo this thread was saying only this specific point of the ratings chart matters, what happened". You saying " but advertisers have always cared about these other areas of the chart" has nothing to do with my observation. It just doesn't. I brought up those other areas on the ratings chart to point out how dismissed other areas are, unless AEW does well in them.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> RelivingTheShadow, you keep saying RapShepard doesn't understand television or television ratings so I'm curious as to what your background in television is.


I major in business marketing, I'm in the middle of year 2 so not far along, but it's a foundation. 

And I can comprehend the basics, like 50+ not being important, overall viewers not telling the entire story, and just generally being opened to learning new information.

I don't know everything, but I'm confident I comprehend the information better than most on this board.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> at least you get what I'm being a dick about. Like fuck it's not hard to get.


i mean... I don’t even pretend to be unbiased 

problem is always, now we’ve opened that window, if NXT ever beats us in that demo then it becomes a problem 🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I major in business marketing, I'm in the middle of year 2 so not far along, but it's a foundation.
> 
> And I can comprehend the basics, like 50+ not being important, overall viewers not telling the entire story, and just generally being opened to learning new information.
> 
> I don't know everything, but I'm confident I comprehend the information better than most on this board.


nice one mate - what are you planning on doing after the degree?

quite a few of us here in marketing actually. Myself, @prosperwithdeen is very knowledgeable 

i think @MontyCora might be if i remember correct


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> No it's just you that doesn't get it lol. Those points are being loss on you because you're so determined to educate lol. I'm going to explain it one more time for you.
> 
> If I say "yo this thread was saying only this specific point of the ratings chart matters, what happened". You saying " but advertisers have always cared about these other areas of the chart" has nothing to do with my observation. It just doesn't. I brought up those other areas on the ratings chart to point out how dismissed other areas are, unless AEW does well in them.


So if I'm comprehending right, you are asking "Why was this thread only talking about 18-49 before, and never 18-34".

Well, 18-49 is the most publicized demo, it's how the charting is done, and it's the easiest to critique. But AEW beating RAW in 18-34 was a story. That's why people talked about it, it became a story. A big story at that.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nice one mate - what are you planning on doing after the degree?
> 
> quite a few of us here in marketing actually. Myself, @prosperwithdeen is very knowledgeable
> 
> i think @MontyCora might be if i remember correct


I have a decent job already, I got my A+ certification in high school, so I was able to work up the IT field pretty fast and land a decent job.

I got so fucking bored tho and just wanted to go to college and get my degree too haha, not sure what I'll ultimately do, but I find the classes interesting so I've stuck with. Like I actually enjoy going to school.

I'm not trying to make it seem like I think everyone on this board is dumb, but it's obvious that a large portion just doesn't know what matters and what doesn't. I get into these arguments on Twitter, and it's nice when you are discussing with people that are at least open to learning, because when I first looked at ratings, I had no idea about a lot of the stuff I do now, but that's only because I was willing to learn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I have a decent job already, I got my A+ certification in high school, so I was able to work up the IT field pretty fast and land a decent job.
> 
> I got so fucking bored tho and just wanted to go to college and get my degree too haha, not sure what I'll ultimately do, but I find the classes interesting so I've stuck with. Like I actually enjoy going to school.


ahh, good on you!

if you’re in IT - but more specifically dev work, and you’re interested in marketing, you’ve gotta look into ‘programmatic’ development and also ‘conversion algorithmics’

those two tie marketing and tech very nicely together


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'd just like to throw in that whilst business marketing is a cool topic to study it doesn't suddenly make anyone an expert on TV ratings. I studied media myself and we were always told that social media is the thing people most care about and I'm confident that's what most business marketing folks are all about in 2020 (Correct me if I'm wrong)


----------



## Joe Gill

the fact that a major demographic would rather watch Dynamite than Raw is a big story no matter how much you down play it. When Dynamite first began no one was predicting it would be more popular than Raw with young people in 2020... yet here we are. Bottom line is that RAW is putting out a horrendous product with plummeting ratings that younger people are showing less and less interest in... and as a result more of them would now rather watch Dynamite which is an upstart company with no previous history or fan base. This is a ratings thread so of course people are going to break down those ratings... and if you dont see the difference between a 25 year old fan vs a 70 year old fan you dont understand how the business world works. Go ask Vince McMahon if he would rather have a 70 year old fan or a 25 year old fan.

If you actualy find RAW more enjoyable than Dynamite right now it speaks volumes about you.... maybe you should start hanging out in senior homes.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean... I don’t even pretend to be unbiased
> 
> problem is always, now we’ve opened that window, if NXT ever beats us in that demo then it becomes a problem


I mean NXT has probably won before in one like females or something I wouldn't know because it wasn't really focused on previously. But nah I get it, it's just funny to me. 



RelivingTheShadow said:


> So if I'm comprehending right, you are asking "Why was this thread only talking about 18-49 before, and never 18-34".
> 
> Well, 18-49 is the most publicized demo, it's how the charting is done, and it's the easiest to critique. But AEW beating RAW in 18-34 was a story. That's why people talked about it, it became a story. A big story at that.


No you're not comprehending even close to right lol. I'm mocking the sudden interest in a demo that was previously ignored. I know exactly why it's being talked about, it's just humorous to see.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd just like to throw in that whilst business marketing is a cool topic to study it doesn't suddenly make anyone an expert on TV ratings. I studied media myself and we were always told that social media is the thing people most care about and I'm confident that's what most business marketing folks are all about in 2020 (Correct me if I'm wrong)


these days most likely 70% google adwords and native type stuff vs tv

but the principles apply even more actually

’key demo’ and other KPIs are even more important in today’s marketing

edit> i currently focus facebook for my biggest business, and thats all about key demos / metrics and whatnot


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd just like to throw in that whilst business marketing is a cool topic to study it doesn't suddenly make anyone an expert on TV ratings. I studied media myself and we were always told that social media is the thing people most care about and I'm confident that's what most business marketing folks are all about in 2020 (Correct me if I'm wrong)


You don't just take marketing classes, you have to take a bunch of business classes to fill out your credits.

That includes things like Introduction to Business, International Business, Business Communications etc.

We've talked about demos a lot in Intro


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean NXT has probably won before in one like females or something I wouldn't know because it wasn't really focused on previously. But nah I get it, it's just funny to me.


blame the quiet NXT ratings forum - those guys aren’t awake mate


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> No you're not comprehending even close to right lol. I'm mocking the sudden interest in a demo that was previously ignored. I know exactly why it's being talked about, it's just humorous to see.


But why mock that, that's a significant milestone to reach and tells you a lot about where the future of this business is headed.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> blame the quiet NXT ratings forum - those guys aren’t awake mate


Yeah it is pretty dead there.


RelivingTheShadow said:


> But why mock that, that's a significant milestone to reach and tells you a lot about where the future of this business is headed.


Because I find it funny, that's usually why people mock things.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NBA vs Fox News Demo Debate


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> If it's more attractive why isn't it the key factor? This just comes off like Dave propping up his friends on something they still ultimately loss. It's just funny watching him and Alvarez specifically because they focus on different things when it comes to ratings depending on the show.
> 
> On one hand on Wednesday they'll diminish the importance of total views and any other demo in favor of 18-49, then on Monday when Raw does well in 18-49 suddenly it's the total viewers that matter. Raw typically has at least 2 of it's hours in the top 5 demo wise every week with the 3rd in the top 10. But what Meltzer and Alvarez instead focus on is the total viewer. What we've seen now is them twice focus on non key demo victories for AEW and it's funny considering how they don't do that when NXT wins non-key demo shit.


Rap, this was the post that made me bring up a lot of the shit I did, you are wrong about a lot of stuff here, and what I said was relevant to this post.

Do you listen to Meltzer and Alvarez's shows? They talked about how the demo was up, and said it was good, but Monday was a hot shot show, much like the Christian return show, so history would tell us to wait, and this particular rating doesn't mean THAT much, much like NXT winning Cole/Lee, it's hot shot. Like if you wanna read warped headlines all the time, I guess, go for it. When Alvarez tweets AEW/NXT ratings, I'm pretty sure he tweets it with the demo breakdown as well, and if not that, I know he goes over every specific demo on Observer Live on Fridays.

Dave is not propping up his friends, it's a legit victory to win a demo, especially when you say they are celebrating non key demo victories for AEW, it is a key demo victory. 18-34 is absolutely a key demo. You're undermining it's importance. Total viewers and 50+ are not key demos.

The hours in the top 10 are good, but relative to what they used to do, it has tanked like crazy. Go back to 2018 and see where on the list they were charting, to where they are now. They have absolutely fallen, and they continue to fall unless they hot shot like they did this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> NBA vs Fox News Demo Debate


lol - yeah, i saw that

nice to see it elsewhere too


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Rap, this was the post that made me bring up a lot of the shit I did, you are wrong about a lot of stuff here, and what I said was relevant to this post.
> 
> Do you listen to Meltzer and Alvarez's shows? They talked about how the demo was up, and said it was good, but Monday was a hot shot show, much like the Christian return show, so history would tell us to wait, and this particular rating doesn't mean THAT much, much like NXT winning Cole/Lee, it's hot shot. Like if you wanna read warped headlines all the time, I guess, go for it. When Alvarez tweets AEW/NXT ratings, I'm pretty sure he tweets it with the demo breakdown as well, and if not that, I know he goes over every specific demo on Observer Live on Fridays.
> 
> Dave is not propping up his friends, it's a legit victory to win a demo, especially when you say they are celebrating non key demo victories for AEW, it is a key demo victory. 18-34 is absolutely a key demo. You're undermining it's importance. Total viewers and 50+ are not key demos.
> 
> The hours in the top 10 are good, but relative to what they used to do, it has tanked like crazy. Go back to 2018 and see where on the list they were charting, to where they are now. They have absolutely fallen, and they continue to fall unless they hot shot like they did this week.


No I'm not it's relevant to the post I was responding to. I watch some of their shows and again they pick and choose what matters because they have an audience to appease too. I've watched Alvarez have a meltdown about viewers when discussing Raw. Then talk about how viewership isn't really important, that 18-49 is what really matters. Hell even your 2nd paragraph points out the bias. NXT doing big things is hot shot, but I'm willing to bet AEW doing 3 weeks of specials wasn't considered the same. Despite a lot of it being thrown together with not much build.


----------



## imthegame19

Joe Gill said:


> Did TNA ever beat RAW or SmackDown in any type of rating? ever? I dont think so. Bottom line is that this is the first time this century WWEs flagship program has been defeated by another wrestling show in one of the most important demographics... and it wasnt an anomaly like a debut show. .... and it really shouldnt surprise anyone. When you compare the products right now it is clear that AEW is targeting that audience a lot better than WWE is. I think its only a matter of time before AEW beats RAW in the 18-49 demo. Wouldnt be surprised if it happens by next year.



Nope TNA was never anywhere close to WWE ratings. No wrestling company been as close to WWE ratings in over 20 years.


----------



## Mister Sinister

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I mean, what's funny to me is that people don't even want to learn and hold on to their same opinions forever, I can't remember who, but one poster was bitching about the fact that two Dark Order matches would kill Dynamite's rating this past week, and the two DO segments were two of the biggest of the night, with the opening match peaking at over 1 million.
> 
> If OC draws next week like he did this week, you think all the OC haters are going to continue to insist he can't draw because of a quarter hour rating from June?


The Dork Hoarders continue to suck, but the presence of Mox and improved continuity the last couple weeks have had results. Nothing wrong with criticizing them for double booking the same thing twice on a card (two political comedy segments the same episode). That's constructive criticism. I want to see them improve and break a million viewers again.

I think that the debate did lose viewers. It bled over into the next QH, and that QH was down (meaning the QH probably started low), but we don't have minute by minute leaks to know.


----------



## Cult03

Dizzie said:


> It doesn't help when you snipe at aew for literally anything because
> 
> 
> Is there such a thing haha


This post proves my entire point though. I made one thread asking what AEW needs to do to beat RAW in the ratings and got no responses and I just got called a troll and a hater in it and a few days later someone that isn't considered a "hater" made the exact same thread and it got heaps of positive responses. It's just dishonest


----------



## RiverFenix

Meltzer was talking about the possibility of the secondary AEW show being put up against Smackdown. He said not if it remains on FOX, but if it was moved to FS1 or something. Basically the new AEW one hour show will have to be on Wednesday, Friday or Saturday by his reasoning, though I don't know why Tuesday is out if it's not on TNT, which is likely. (Th, Sun and Monday out because Khan will not counter program NFL)

What about taking on Smackdown on FOX? If AEW could take even 400K fans from SDL it greatly increases the chance FOX pulls the plug on it on the network and moves it. The thing here wouldn't be AEW trying to beat SDL, just diminish it in the ratings enough to have FOX pull the plug. There is a risk you get embarrassed in the ratings H2H though. 

Would you risk it, or take a Saturday slot without any direct Wrestling competition? Say Saturday at 7pm - does that draw better as a stand alone than trying to tap into the built in market for pro-wrestling at 8pm on Friday night? You have 2M viewers as potential channel flippers in this second scenario.


----------



## bdon

To me, Saturday is a horrible time slot for wrestling. The 18-49 crowd is going to have plans on those evenings.


----------



## go stros

what happens to AEW when the Jags start practicing? will the still be able to use Daily's?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

go stros said:


> what happens to AEW when the Jags start practicing? will the still be able to use Daily's?


don’t see why not - it is adjacent to the stadium, but should play no part in their training


----------



## go stros

LifeInCattleClass said:


> don’t see why not - it is adjacent to the stadium, but should play no part in their training


Its part of their training facilities. With all the covid stuff going on I'm curious if the NFL or poppa Khan would want the extra people around.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> To me, Saturday is a horrible time slot for wrestling. The 18-49 crowd is going to have plans on those evenings.


I guess it depends on the type of person. Myself for example I'm 18-49 but I don't go out on weekends very often anymore unless it's a casual get together but those aren't weekly. Your 18-25 crowd might be going out to clubs but most 25+ aren't doing that.

Sport is very successful in the Saturday afternoon/night slot here in Australia.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

go stros said:


> Its part of their training facilities. With all the covid stuff going on I'm curious if the NFL or poppa Khan would want the extra people around.


I don't think it will be a big deal. Most NFL stadiums have several different locker rooms. The wrestlers themselves probably never get near the Jags locker room.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Really good watch, and if any of you are subbed to the observer, read the 6 months ratings breakdown for all shows through pandemic era, absolutely mind blowing stuff.

If this rate continues, AEW is going to beat WWE, and it might be faster than we think.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Really good watch, and if any of you are subbed to the observer, read the 6 months ratings breakdown for all shows through pandemic era, absolutely mind blowing stuff.
> 
> If this rate continues, AEW is going to beat WWE, and it might be faster than we think.


Okay, but who cares if they do? What does that do for them or anyone else?

I don't mean to be dismissive but I feel like a lot of people are going to be really disappointed when/if AEW ever beats the WWE. It's not going to change anything.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, but who cares if they do? What does that do for them or anyone else?
> 
> I don't mean to be dismissive but I feel like a lot of people are going to be really disappointed when/if AEW ever beats the WWE. It's not going to change anything.


You having a laugh?

It validates their Pro Wrestling outlook. It validates their style over all the critics saying otherwise, yourself and others on this board included

it gives them the big money TV deals and it solidifies their business

4 guys from different backgrounds, half of them ’outlaw mudshow’ indies beating the Global machine monopoly against all belief from those that critique them

geeeezz.....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It seems like these have been selling out quick quick

various reports of Walmart running out

Wait until the OC one comes out  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292465760061870082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292421706158678016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292100820872421378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292491130043596801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292455002028544000


https://twitter.com/themattyirish_/status/1292214667004256260?s=21


----------



## llj

I don't even care if AEW eventually is competitive with RAW and Smackdown or not, I'm just sitting here chuckling while reading all the WWE diehards twisting their panties into knots trying to downplay AEW managing to hold steady during this pandemic while RAW and Smackdown continue to plummet faster than everything else on TV.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You having a laugh?
> 
> It validates their Pro Wrestling outlook. It validates their style over all the critics saying otherwise, yourself and others on this board included
> 
> it gives them the big money TV deals and it solidifies their business
> 
> 4 guys from different backgrounds, half of them ’outlaw mudshow’ indies beating the Global machine monopoly against all belief from those that critique them
> 
> geeeezz.....


Which critics? Most people are on AEW's dick massively. The only known critics are a small portion of wrestling fans, Cornette, Russo and a few others.

It gives them big money TV deals and solidifies their business if they can consistently beat the WWE. Doing so once during a pandemic won't really matter past being a cool thing for the guys like Cody, Omega and The Bucks proving they can actually do it.

Keep in mind that there was a time where TNA Impact had 3 million people tuned into Spike TV and it did nothing for them long term. It'd be cool if AEW popped a rating big enough to beat WWE but it's going to lead to major disappointment when it doesn't do anything for them long term.



llj said:


> I don't even care if AEW eventually is competitive with RAW and Smackdown or not, I'm just sitting here chuckling while reading all the WWE diehards twisting their panties into knots trying to downplay AEW managing to hold steady during this pandemic while RAW and Smackdown continue to plummet faster than everything else on TV.


WWE diehards like me, right? The guy who hasn't watched a full WWE show since 2006.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It seems like these have been selling out quick quick
> 
> various reports of Walmart running out
> 
> Wait until the OC one comes out
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292465760061870082
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292421706158678016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292100820872421378
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292491130043596801
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292455002028544000
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/themattyirish_/status/1292214667004256260?s=21


Good to see kids liking this stuff. Makes change from wwe collectors


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, but who cares if they do? What does that do for them or anyone else?
> 
> I don't mean to be dismissive but I feel like a lot of people are going to be really disappointed when/if AEW ever beats the WWE. It's not going to change anything.


Nothing wrong with rooting for your team to win. It does nothing for sports fans when their teams win but we all still look forward to it for the fun of it all. My hometown Baltimore Ravens won the Superbowl back in 2012 and it didn't change anything in my personal life, but it damn sure felt good to see a team that you follow and players that you're a fan of find success. Especially when you get entertainment or find enjoyment from watching them. Even in the acting world, I'm a huge fan of Chadwick Boseman and I want him to find even more success after the movie "Black Panther", even though it does nothing to affect my life whether he does or not.

In AEW's case, you have people like myself who have been rooting for them since day one and you have people who are just jumping on the bandwagon now because its the cool thing to do, just like with any sports. It'll be nice to see AEW win against WWE for people like me, but then I'll just move on with my life after a night of "celebration". I'm sure it'll be that way for most people. That celebration could be anything too. Some will be conservative about it, some will blow up WWE's Twitter page, some will drink with friends, some will smoke blunts with friends and talk about the industry, and some will just increase their online activity. Then you'll have the crowd who gets the satisfaction of saying "I told you so!" Then a week later, no one will really care, just like with sports.

But another positive to AEW winning would be WWE being forced to step up their game. Then we will have 2 great products and wrestling fans come out the real winners.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Which critics? *


boy oh boy - is it ever clear you’re not on twitter

let’s say it makes this place look like sunshine and rainbows


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> To me, Saturday is a horrible time slot for wrestling. The 18-49 crowd is going to have plans on those evenings.


Not during covid my man lol


----------



## BuckshotLarry

Deleted


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Very interesting stat, that while I wouldn't normally put to much weight into, however, given viewership rising I do think it's quite interesting.

The week that just past, on Google Trends was the most interest AEW has had since OCTOBER(excluding PPV weeks of course), that's kind of crazy to think about.

Usually google trends is a pretty good predictor for PPV buy rates, and less so TV ratings, but their has been a general uptick in interest since Fyter Fest ended, and it really went up last week.

Maybe has some to do with the Action Figures, not exactly sure.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, but who cares if they do? What does that do for them or anyone else?
> 
> I don't mean to be dismissive but I feel like a lot of people are going to be really disappointed when/if AEW ever beats the WWE. It's not going to change anything.


It means they get better TV deals, it means more money for them so people can get paid better and they invest into making it an even better product and be more competitive to get the best guys in the world, and more than anything, it validates that if you do what the fans want, if you give them a quality product, you will in fact be rewarded for it.

After 15 years of seeing the best guys in WWE get ruined, and having no quality, easily accessible western alternative, it's nice to see the paradigm start shifting.


----------



## TD Stinger

I never discuss ratings in long form because frankly, I don't view myself smart enough to do so and also I feel people can get caught up so much in this stuff that it can cloud their enjoyment of the actual show. But lately, for a variety of reasons there's a lot of talk about it, and obviously some of it descends into madness. So, this is my outlook on the current situation.

I've honestly learned far more about ratings and demos through this "Wednesday Night War" than I ever had before because again, I never really care that much in the past. So when I look at the shows, I have a tendency to look at overall viewership first before demos even though, obviously, the overall viewership doesn't tell the whole story.

So now I do know that AEW got 800k for one show, and that NXT got 800k for one show, while the viewership is the same, the demographic is obviously going to be a bit different. But at the same time, as viewership goes up or down, typically the demo will follow it.

What is very noticeable is that between all of the 4 major shows, Raw, SD, NXT, and Dynamite, NXT and Dynamite have stayed the most consistent since the pandemic started. Now, I would like to think because those shows are just consistently better shows is the main reason why that's the case, but there's also the case that those shows had less of an audience to lose to begin with.

NXT came of a hot 2019 before cooling off a bit in 2020, mainly due to taking their foot off the gas in my opinion compared to the end of 2019, and pretty much hovered in the 700k range for all of 2020 before the pandemic. AEW, after struggling a bit towards the end of the year with competing with NXT, rebounded rather nicely to the point in 2020 where they were consistently doing around 800-900k in overall viewership.

NXT did start dipping more into the 500-600k range during the pandemic, but have rebounded most weeks recently to get back to around where they were before the pandemic. AEW's rating since the pandemic fell more into the 700k range most week, sometimes into 600k, but in the past few weeks they've have their best viewership in months in the build up to All Out.

So what AEW, and to a lesser extent NXT, have been able to do recently has been impressive. Though I will admit, I can't help myself from rolling my eyes when see so much hate and vitriol over these "wars" when the combined viewership most weeks is 1.5 million. And of course you see the usual tweets when numbers are down for both show saying "hey, it's a great thing that 1.5 million people are watching wrestling on Wednesdays. Being split between 2 companies, and with some amount of those people flipping back and forth, I don't know, it's never seen like that big of a number to me in the grand scheme of things. And I guess the big thing I want to see going forward is can AEW continue to rise, maybe get back over a million as they were before for a short time in 2019. Or is this their ceiling?

And then I see what's happening with Raw or SD. SD on Fox before the pandemic most weeks was doing 2.3 to 2.5 million people a week with .8 in the demo. Now they're doing right under 2 million every week with a .5 demo. So when I look at that, I think to myself that if they can sustain that by the time fans are back, even if that's not until like Spring 2021 or Summer 2021, they could perhaps climb up to the same spot they were in. Now, I don't know how thrilled Fox is with all of these numbers. I mean, when they got the show they got a show that doing barely above 2 million people on USA Network. I don't know how much higher they thought it would be and I won't aim to guess. But my point is, they seem like a show that while the ratings and viewership have fallen, they seem like a show that can rebound from their current position when they're back in arenas again, though that's far from a guarantee.

With Raw, they just feel like they're screwed with that 3rd hour. A show that would usually do around 2.0 to 2.3 million people in the beginning of the year now hovering around 1.6-1.7 million people. Even when fans are back, and that still won't be for awhile, how many will stick around as far as a viewing audience goes?

If anything, this pandemic feels like it's just accelerated WWE's decline in ratings that's been happening for the last 20 years while AEW and NXT have been able to remain somewhat stable. So on one hand, again, it's cool to see AEW be able to persevere better through this pandemic. But on the other hand, I don't know, it's also feels kind of sad that this is the state of wrestling. Because I don't know if I really see AEW continuing to rise up, even when fans are back, or just taking up more of the current audience. The industry still feels like it goes by how WWE goes, for better or worse. And obviously, despite some gloom and doom talk for WWE, with Raw still being their highest rated show and SD not exactly falling off a cliff, I'm not one to read into their "potential demise" either.

Also, the idea that this will force WWE to do better and that they'll put on better shows is a flawed one. There answer lately to being backed up against a wall is more cinematic stuff, Raw Underground, and a stable even worse than the Dark Order and fuck me I didn't think that would be possible in 2020, lol.

So, I guess that was just my ramblings on the current situation. There's no real point to this post, just everything that's been rattling around in my head.


----------



## zkorejo

Good for AEW. Suppose if things continue to go as they are and they do start beating WWE shows in the demos.. Sad thing is, I dont think WWE is even capable of doing better even if they want to. A 70+ year old who surrounds himself with 50+ year olds are booking their shows. 

WWE can actually turn things around and squash AEW's momentum but it would take some very VERY big steps, which I dont think they would be willing to do. 

I just want them both to be competitive and keep going. Monopoly sucks, regardless if its WWE monopolizing or AEW in the future.


----------



## Prosper

zkorejo said:


> Good for AEW. Suppose if things continue to go as they are and they do start beating WWE shows in the demos.. Sad thing is, I dont think WWE is even capable of doing better even if they want to. A 70+ year old who surrounds himself with 50+ year olds are booking their shows.
> 
> WWE can actually turn things around and squash AEW's momentum but it would take some very VERY big steps, which I dont think they would be willing to do.
> 
> I just want them both to be competitive and keep going. Monopoly sucks, regardless if its WWE monopolizing or AEW in the future.


There's so much to do. I don't even know where they would start. Even now, in order to squash AEW in the dominating fashion they want to, they actually need to build credible talent, which takes a while, because the talent has to rack up wins and get promo time. There is no one credible in WWE right now except for AJ Styles, Edge who is part time, McIntyre, Lesnar who is also part time, and Orton. There's no Roman Reigns. There's no Becky Lynch. No full time Lesnar. They pulled the plug on Aleister Black. I don't know how they're even running their shows. Drew had to face Ziggler last month, someone who has been a jobber for 3 yrs and just came off a clean loss to Otis, because they had no one built up. Who does The Fiend face after SSlam? There is literally no one on either roster. Everyone is a jobber. Meaning that The Fiend will probably have to be an absentee champion for months until WMania.

If they started building talent in a general sense now, and that's a big IF, then they will have some talent get over by the time WMania season rolls around, but at that point, major AEW angles will be in place that will for sure create a buzz in the wrestling community. And this is all before they even tackle the creative process, which is an even bigger beast for them. Then there's the issue of having 15 PPV's a year, championships meaning nothing, win/losses meaning nothing, gimmick matches being killed, the PG rating, etc. They can't just fix all of that at the drop of a dime.

I don't know man, WWE has dug a pretty big hole for themselves as far as their shows. This is at least a 18-24 month process to fix it. The neglect has gotten intense in the last couple of years. Good thing they will never fail financially though because I would never want them to go out of business no matter how bad it gets.


----------



## zkorejo

prosperwithdeen said:


> There's so much to do. I don't even know where they would start. Even now, in order to squash AEW in the dominating fashion they want to, they actually need to build credible talent, which takes a while, because the talent has to rack up wins and get promo time. There is no one credible in WWE right now except for AJ Styles, Edge who is part time, McIntyre, Lesnar who is also part time, and Orton. There's no Roman Reigns. There's no Becky Lynch. No full time Lesnar. They pulled the plug on Aleister Black. I don't know how they're even running their shows. Drew had to face Ziggler last month, someone who has been a jobber for 3 yrs and just came off a clean loss to Otis, because they had no one built up. Who does The Fiend face after SSlam? There is literally no one on either roster. Everyone is a jobber. Meaning that The Fiend will probably have to be an absentee champion for months until WMania.
> 
> If they started building talent in a general sense now, and that's a big IF, then they will have some talent get over by the time WMania season rolls around, but at that point, major AEW angles will be in place that will for sure create a buzz in the wrestling community. And this is all before they even tackle the creative process, which is an even bigger beast for them. Then there's the issue of having 15 PPV's a year, championships meaning nothing, win/losses meaning nothing, gimmick matches being killed, the PG rating, etc. They can't just fix all of that at the drop of a dime.
> 
> I don't know man, WWE has dug a pretty big hole for themselves as far as their shows. This is at least a 18-24 month process to fix it. The neglect has gotten intense in the last couple of years. Good thing they will never fail financially though because I would never want them to go out of business no matter how bad it gets.


18-24 months doesn't sound too bad considering they have been royally fucking up for over a decade. I think it would take them maybe even lesser time than that.

The thing with WWE is though, they still have a pretty big and loyal fanbase, their shows are in the gutter yet still they pull around 2 million viewers and alot of people in these very boards blindly support them. They can bring back lapsed fans much faster and quite easily if they actually tried as opposed to a brand new company like AEW. 

They have wasted so much talent and its biting them in the rear end now. They could have had so many stars by now if they hadn't misused all of them. Even if Roman isnt there right now. In addition to Edge, Orton, Daniel Bryan, Styles, Rollins they could have had Dean Ambrose, Kevin Owens, Nakamura, Balor and Rusev as legit maineventers. I would argue they also fucked up Bray Wyatt and Braun Strowman over part timers such as Lesnar and Goldberg, had they not jobbed to them they would have come across as much bigger stars. All these men could have been a pretty big deal right now if they hadn't mishandled them so badly.

A year ago, even on NXT Aleister Black, Gargano, Ciampa, Cole, Richochet and Dream came across as future stars... had they booked them properly they would be solid upper-midcarders by now for them. 

They just dont know how to get it done anymore. It all boils down to one problem and that is Vince McMahon. Everyone is so hopeful for Triple H one day taking over... I dont think Vince is going anywhere for atleast another 5-10 years. I just hope VKM doesnt kill the WWE before he himself dies.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I like how everyone is talking about WWE dying and AEW magically somehow becoming number one. Won't their numbers go back to normal once COVID becomes less of an issue? That was the argument on here for like 3 months...


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like how everyone is talking about WWE dying and AEW magically somehow becoming number one. Won't their numbers go back to normal once COVID becomes less of an issue? That was the argument on here for like 3 months...


Well, I always said that AEW risked losing viewers that wouldn’t come back. They are proving now that they CAN draw the viewers back to right where they were pre-pandemic. All they had to do was go forward with storylines.

WWE is now in that area of risking losing viewers for good. People who watched forever out of habit. My nephew watched his entire young life, due to his dad watching from Attitude Era to this year, but when the pandemic hit, they turned it off and have no plans of returning.

The crowds and feeling like you were continuing a tradition was a lot of WWE’s selling point. Do you have faith in the main roster booking turning around anytime soon barring Vince finally croaking, @Chip Chipperson?

And this isn’t a dick-sucking post about AEW. They’re still a show ultimately doing less than a million viewers, but Raw and SD do run the risk of staying in free fall.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like how everyone is talking about WWE dying and AEW magically somehow becoming number one. Won't their numbers go back to normal once COVID becomes less of an issue? That was the argument on here for like 3 months...


No they won't, because their viewership was plummeting far before COVID and they had and have no intention of making the show better. The networks weren't happy with their cable numbers even before the pandemic, because of the crazy high price tag. This is the same show before, during, and after COVID. Anyone rational that says that "WWE is dying", is talking about their TV product and content. On the business side of things, they will never die. They're swimming in money from Saudi Arabia and their TV deals. Then they will add to it with live gates when crowds are back. Then there's the WWE Network. They are safe on USA with it being one of the highest rated shows, but on FOX, they could be cancelled before their contract ends if things keep going in this direction. Vince was asked on his conference call with investors about why NXT and AEW have been able to stabilize their viewers and actually gain a lot of them back while RAW and SD continued to bleed and he had no real response. The answer is that the content is simply better on Wednesday on both sides. It's a completely different situation. Bringing crowds back won't change the way they book their shows on Mondays or Fridays and it won't make the shows better, because they were just as bad prior to the no crowd era.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

figure update from Shida - all sold out


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293275842735472641


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293280717535719424


----------



## EmbassyForever

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293280717535719424


Damn, that's great for AEW


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sheesh - but it is a new week

gotta wait for Wed


----------



## Not Lying

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293280717535719424


This is so great.


----------



## La Parka

The AEW figures are fantastic quality. I'm not surprised they're sold out.

Can't wait to get an MJF in series 2.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

People should know how TV also works, generally speaking, there is a lag between quality of show, and when it's relevant to the rating itself. So if a show is consistently quality for 3 months, it probably won't be reflective of that until 4-6 months later(outside of hotshotting), so the actual ratings you are seeing now is probably reflective of the February/March shows, the lead up to Revolution in particular which many call some of the best weekly wrestling they've ever seen.


----------



## Erik.

RelivingTheShadow said:


> People should know how TV also works, generally speaking, there is a lag between quality of show, and when it's relevant to the rating itself. So if a show is consistently quality for 3 months, it probably won't be reflective of that until 4-6 months later(outside of hotshotting), so the actual ratings you are seeing now is probably reflective of the February/March shows, the lead up to Revolution in particular which many call some of the best weekly wrestling they've ever seen.


Why?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Erik. said:


> Why?


Just generally how TV works, no real explanation. Quote from Meltzer -

"That's why in TV, when you see the drops, it's already too late. Chalk that lesson up to ex-TV programmer Lance Russell when WMC fell to a 14 rating (Raw is about a 1 right now, AEW is a 0.5) and I said it's still a killer number, and he said, look at the houses. TV lags behind by months, the damage was already done. Months later the rating fell hard just as he told me it would. "

And that's the long term trajectory, you can point to one off bad ratings or high ratings, and they don't mean much, like the atrocious 6/24 AEW rating, or the really high 7/8 NXT viewership, it's about consistency.

So if you think like RAW is really bad right now, wait until November/December, the numbers will be disgusting.

That's why for WWE to get better, it's going to be really hard because of how hot shotty they are in nature, because even if they present you a great product, the numbers will continue to go down for 3-6 months, do you really have faith in them staying course while numbers are falling? But that's what you HAVE to do for long term growth.

That's also why people calling for Orange Cassidy's head for the 6/24 rating are dumb as fuck.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - when they release OC and Darby you’ll see the stampede


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293632867000606723


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol - when they release OC and Darby you’ll see the stampede
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293632867000606723


Imagine. Your one job is to print a sign, and you misspell one of less than ten words.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Just generally how TV works, no real explanation. Quote from Meltzer -
> 
> "That's why in TV, when you see the drops, it's already too late. Chalk that lesson up to ex-TV programmer Lance Russell when WMC fell to a 14 rating (Raw is about a 1 right now, AEW is a 0.5) and I said it's still a killer number, and he said, look at the houses. TV lags behind by months, the damage was already done. Months later the rating fell hard just as he told me it would. "
> 
> And that's the long term trajectory, you can point to one off bad ratings or high ratings, and they don't mean much, like the atrocious 6/24 AEW rating, or the really high 7/8 NXT viewership, it's about consistency.
> 
> So if you think like RAW is really bad right now, wait until November/December, the numbers will be disgusting.
> 
> That's why for WWE to get better, it's going to be really hard because of how hot shotty they are in nature, because even if they present you a great product, the numbers will continue to go down for 3-6 months, do you really have faith in them staying course while numbers are falling? But that's what you HAVE to do for long term growth.
> 
> That's also why people calling for Orange Cassidy's head for the 6/24 rating are dumb as fuck.


Yeah yeah Bryan Alvarez. RAW and SD were supposed to drop to 1.1 million once NBA and NHL started too yet they've both gone up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> Imagine. Your one job is to print a sign, and you misspell one of less than ten words.


haha! So true


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah yeah Bryan Alvarez. RAW and SD were supposed to drop to 1.1 million once NBA and NHL started too yet they've both gone up.


Bryan Alvarez is wrong all the time, even he admits that, his ratings opinions are not gospel.

Anyway, that show last night was rough, they really need to tape every show, and no coincidence the taped shows have been doing exponentially better viewership wise than the live ones.

Think they dip down to 820k for this one.


----------



## fabi1982

That was a 1m viewer show


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> That was a 1m viewer show


No way, first of all, it's a show built around an OC main event, OC will do well in 18-49, but turn off a lot of 50+, 50+ are still a big portion of the audience, second, the show wasn't very good, much like the 7/29 show that looked great on paper, but wasn't particularly good.

800k+ would be a success here, although if the show was actually good, I could've seen 920k.

Who knows, I might be wrong.


----------



## Erik.

It was a high rating last week so likely to be low this week.


----------



## rexmundi

I suck at predictions but I'll make one anyways. The rating will drop from last week's which was buoyed by the Bischoff return. Expecting the rollercoaster ride for their ratings to continue. 

AEW was just okay last night. NXT is going to try and put their best foot forward the next two weeks when they are unopposed. They certainly didn't last night nor did AEW. No unreasonably high prediction so I can then say that they failed to meet expectations. I'll just go with AEW 775K nxt 698K.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW 777k / .27 Demo
NXT 655k / .19 Demo

I feel both drop, both were pretty awful last night, one channel had Orange Cassidy in the main event, the other Trevor Lee. That doesn't scream high ratings lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uhmmm - 850

0.30


----------



## Aedubya

.84


----------



## A PG Attitude

934k
0.36

Nxt
710k 
0.19


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hope NXT wins. AEW doesn't deserve it this week.


----------



## One Shed

What it deserves? 100K

What it will get? Probably between 800-825K.


----------



## MrThortan

Wasn't the best episode yesterday. The made some questionable decisions. Could be some channel changers. Hopefully it didn't detour people from tuning in next week. Caught the west coast time slot, while I usually watch the east. Anxious to see the numbers.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

MrThortan said:


> Wasn't the best episode yesterday. The made some questionable decisions. Could be some channel changers. Hopefully it didn't detour people from tuning in next week. Caught the west coast time slot, while I usually watch the east. Anxious to see the numbers.


Next week is big, they have a huge lead in from NBA playoffs so it's actually an opportunity to capture interest from new fans.


----------



## One Shed

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Next week is big, they have a huge lead in from NBA playoffs so it's actually an opportunity to capture interest from new fans.


Vince Khan: "get OC out there and have him beat Archer with a superman punch, pal."


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Next week is big, they have a huge lead in from NBA playoffs so it's actually an opportunity to capture interest from new fans.


They'll find a way to fuck it up just like last time they had the chance to capture interest from new fans. I believe that night we had Marko Stunt make the final four in a battle royale for a shot at the brand new TNT Title. Happy days.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

792k, NXT not in top 50

As I predicted, strong in 18-49 with a .32, down in 50+

RAW beat AEW P18-34 this week


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294001063444520962

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One Shed

RelivingTheShadow said:


> 792k, NXT not in top 50
> 
> As I predicted, strong in 18-49 with a .32, down in 50+
> 
> RAW beat AEW P18-34 this week


Main event a goof, lose over 100K viewers.


----------



## Erik.

As expected.


----------



## RapShepard

TV ratings are so hard to predict. It seems like last weeks episode was mostly loved, yet they didn't retain viewers. Luckily for them they're out doing expectations. I can't imagine the stress folk feel when they're actually under scrutiny to get the ratings up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

How did they not hit one million with the biggest star in AEW Orange Cassidy Vs Future HOFer Chris Jericho?

Could it be that nobody cares about OC?


----------



## 3venflow

Is there an actual quarter hour breakdown yet? Part of me hopes the main did lose fans so the OC push ends.

It's still AEW's fourth highest rated Dynamite since April overall though.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> TV ratings are so hard to predict. It seems like last weeks episode was mostly loved, yet they didn't retain viewers. Luckily for them they're out doing expectations. I can't imagine the stress folk feel when they're actually under scrutiny to get the ratings up.


A lot of it people think has to do with politics this week with the Kamala Harris stuff, both those shows did huge.

NBA pulled lukewarm numbers yesterday because of it.

It's interesting, with AEW it seems the good shows do well, 7/22 doing 845k and 8/5 doing 901k, but the live shows that are usually pretty bad, 7/29 doing 773k and 8/12 doing 793k fall off.

AEW needs to go to TNT and ask to tape all the shows, because right now those are a lot better, and you have so many disadvantages with no crowd, might as well take an advantage with post show editing.


----------



## TripleG

NXT didn't even chart? Yikes


----------



## IamMark

nxt 619k-0.16 65th


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TripleG said:


> NXT didn't even chart? Yikes


NXT can jump back up whenever they want. All it will take is a couple of big names being sent down there for 4-6 weeks and they'll boost up.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> A lot of it people think has to do with politics this week with the Kamala Harris stuff, both those shows did huge.
> 
> NBA pulled lukewarm numbers yesterday because of it.
> 
> It's interesting, with AEW it seems the good shows do well, 7/22 doing 845k and 8/5 doing 901k, but the live shows that are usually pretty bad, 7/29 doing 773k and 8/12 doing 793k fall off.
> 
> AEW needs to go to TNT and ask to tape all the shows, because right now those are a lot better, and you have so many disadvantages with no crowd, might as well take an advantage with post show editing.


You know I've liked MMA with no fans, but basketball with no fans feels weird lol. The virtual fans is weird too lol. It really does be all over the place rating wise. 

But I don't think your approach is radical enough. Go to the house of every Nielson owner and force them to watch.


----------



## rbl85

RelivingTheShadow said:


> A lot of it people think has to do with politics this week with the Kamala Harris stuff, both those shows did huge.
> 
> NBA pulled lukewarm numbers yesterday because of it.
> 
> It's interesting, with AEW it seems the good shows do well, 7/22 doing 845k and 8/5 doing 901k, but the live shows that are usually pretty bad, 7/29 doing 773k and 8/12 doing 793k fall off.
> 
> AEW needs to go to TNT and ask to tape all the shows, because right now those are a lot better, and you have so many disadvantages with no crowd, might as well take an advantage with post show editing.


Have nothing with the show being good or bad.

Sometimes you don't know why a show start with 900+K viewers and the show is really good but the week after the show start with way less viewers.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT can jump back up whenever they want. All it will take is a couple of big names being sent down there for 4-6 weeks and they'll boost up.


Time for USA to cancel that show


----------



## AEW_19

The pattern is strange in the ratings. AEW and NXT either gain viewers or lose viewers together over the last month.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Assuming the 50+ was where the biggest drop off was, then the Kamala Harris stuff would make sense. There demo was still fairly strong.

The 50+ drop would explain NXT's bad rating too.


----------



## fabi1982

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT can jump back up whenever they want. All it will take is a couple of big names being sent down there for 4-6 weeks and they'll boost up.


They showed that they can do it with Sasha. So you see now they dont need to get these numbers as no one is scared down in NXT. Whenever they need to beat AEW they know how to do it and thats all they need to know 

Edit: and NXT was by far the better show this week.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT can jump back up whenever they want. All it will take is a couple of big names being sent down there for 4-6 weeks and they'll boost up.


Don't mean jack if they can't sustain it ...they were even getting best by having guys from raw and smack down going to next to help set up SS and NXT even won


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> How did they not hit one million with the biggest star in AEW Orange Cassidy Vs Future HOFer Chris Jericho?
> 
> Could it be that nobody cares about OC?


Segment could've done close to million - have to wait & see


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> Main event a goof, lose over 100K viewers.


What are you talking about we don't have the quarters yet.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> What are you talking about we don't have the quarters yet.


OK fine. Put on a shit show, lose viewers instantly. Better?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I’m SHOCKED that Killer Kross isn’t drawing bigger numbers. I record NXT now because of him. Guess I’m alone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Drop from 0.36 to 0.32 is not good

hoped they would maintain that

still some of the best demos in pandemic times - but still....


----------



## Pippen94

Prized Fighter said:


> Assuming the 50+ was where the biggest drop off was, then the Kamala Harris stuff would make sense. There demo was still fairly strong.
> 
> The 50+ drop would explain NXT's bad rating too.


Aew did 0.32 to nxt 0.16 in demo


----------



## AEW_19

fabi1982 said:


> They showed that they can do it with Sasha. So you see now they dont need to get these numbers as no one is scared down in NXT. Whenever they need to beat AEW they know how to do it and thats all they need to know
> 
> Edit: and NXT was by far the better show this week.


I can feel the rage through this post


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> OK fine. Put on a shit show, lose viewers instantly. Better?


That’ll be true if they started high and dropped off during the show

i recon it’ll be kinda even throughout like normal


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Drop from 0.36 to 0.32 is not good
> 
> hoped they would maintain that
> 
> still some of the best demos in pandemic times - but still....


Some news shows ranked ahead which didn't last week


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> OK fine. Put on a shit show, lose viewers instantly. Better?


And like always i'm telling you (and i will be right like always on this) the show probably started with way less viewers than last week.


----------



## fabi1982

AEW_19 said:


> I can feel the rage through this post


What rage? I really just care for the show itself. Of course if ratings are so bad the show gets canceled, I will rage, but at least NXT can fall back to the network  just explained that it seems that NXT doesnt care much about the ratings as they build their entertainers not on ratings but on actual performance


----------



## rexmundi

NXT got rekt. Lost by 173K in viewers ( even more than what AEW won last week) and doubled in the demo.

This was AEW'S 4th highest in total viewers since March 25 and the.32 demo is tied with the July 22 and Tyson episode as the second highest demo since March 25. 

AEW only got a .26 in the elder demos. Those dudes just don't like OC,


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That’ll be true if they started high and dropped off during the show
> 
> i recon it’ll be kinda even throughout like normal





rbl85 said:


> And like always i'm telling you (and i will be right like always on this) the show probably started with way less viewers than last week.


Yeah, it definitely could be. Not much advertised was that captivating and boy did they deliver as advertised.


----------



## rexmundi

TKO Wrestling said:


> I’m SHOCKED that Killer Kross isn’t drawing bigger numbers. I record NXT now because of him. Guess I’m alone.


He should be known as Ratings Killer Kross.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, it definitely could be. Not much advertised was that captivating and boy did they deliver as advertised.


The principal things that can change the rating for a wrestling show is not the quality of the show but the other programms.

A good amount of people will watch wrestling if there is nothing important on the other channels.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Some news shows ranked ahead which didn't last week


Yeah - the news always hurts them

for some reason the younger audience tunes into opinion news a LOT these days - I have no idea why that is - when I was younger I would avoid those like the plague


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> The principal things that can change the rating for a wrestling show is not the quality of the show but the other programms.
> 
> A good amount of people will watch wrestling if there is nothing important on the other channels.


Yes, a "good amount" of people will as evidenced by how many people watch WWE dumpster fires, but also a "good amount" of people will not watch programs that advertise goofs.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294007488392634368


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294007488392634368


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Whoanma said:


>


I love when this gif pops up


----------



## Alright_Mate

A fair rating for a hit and miss episode.

I’m interested to see the comparisons of the AEW main event to NXT. Orange Cassidy vs Velveteen Dream, wouldn’t be surprised if both took big hits.


----------



## AEW_19

fabi1982 said:


> What rage? I really just care for the show itself. Of course if ratings are so bad the show gets canceled, I will rage, but at least NXT can fall back to the network  just explained that it seems that NXT doesnt care much about the ratings as they build their entertainers not on ratings but on actual performance


NXT clearly care about the ratings or they wouldn't be trying to pop a ratings boost on certain weeks. The reason that I can tell that you're angry is comments like NXT aren't scared, they can just use Sasha to win and saying at least NXT can fall back on the network. It's something a kid would say if he's angry and doesn't get his own way.


----------



## AEWMoxley

That Saturday episode is going to get demolished. No wonder they've already thrown the towel in by putting together a shit card.

I expect to see a Moxley vs Wardlow match soon, which will lift them out of this hole.


----------



## Pippen94

AEWMoxley said:


> That Saturday episode is going to get demolished. No wonder they've already thrown the towel in by putting together a shit card.
> 
> I expect to see a Moxley vs Wardlow match soon, which will lift them out of this hole.


Will get nice lead in from NBA. At very least will get demo a lot higher than Wednesday nxt


----------



## Seafort

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT can jump back up whenever they want. All it will take is a couple of big names being sent down there for 4-6 weeks and they'll boost up.


They have to be careful about this. WWE should want NXT to rise organically by virtue of its own roster. Yes, they can send Rollins, Banks, Orton, New Day, Lesnar, Wyatt down regularly but what this risks doing is furthering reducing the differences between all three brands. And when that happens, all three shows eventually settle in between 1.1M and 1.4M. Maybe that’s great for NXT, but not for what USA and FOX are paying for Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Pippen94

Seafort said:


> They have to be careful about this. WWE should want NXT to rise organically by virtue of its own roster. Yes, they can send Rollins, Banks, Orton, New Day, Lesnar, Wyatt down regularly but what this risks doing is furthering reducing the differences between all three brands. And when that happens, all three shows eventually settle in between 1.1M and 1.4M. Maybe that’s great for NXT, but not for what USA and FOX are paying for Raw and Smackdown.


Raw & smack down are losing demo with main roster talent yet ppl believe nxt will buck trend & gain significant increase by adding these wrestlers - don't see it


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Drop from 0.36 to 0.32 is not good
> 
> hoped they would maintain that
> 
> still some of the best demos in pandemic times - but still....


But they had the AEW Yes Movement in the main event!! HOW COULD THEY HAVE SUCH A HUGE DROP IN RATINGS!!!111&;!3!!!!

Fucking idiots don’t have a clue how to maintain momentum. Goddamn Orange Cassidy beating Jericho in the fucking main event. I hope the 550k to 650k stupid fucks screaming for Orange Cassidy to main event are fucking happy.


----------



## Vitamin R

Of course AEW lost viewers. They keep putting Orange Shit as their main event. That geek belongs at Starbucks serving coffee, not wrestling on a major network.

Not even Dixie Carter or Herb Abrams would be stupid enough to push OC as a top guy.


----------



## bdon

These mf’ers, man.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Eh. They went down but that's a decent rating and they're still in the top ten like they have been for most of it's lifespan so far. Nothing to really bitch about honestly.


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Eh. They went down but that's a decent rating and they're still in the top ten like they have been for most of it's lifespan so far. Nothing to really bitch about honestly.


The rating isn’t “bad”, but it’s a far cry from the climb in ratings they had been seeing.

STOP PUTTING CASSIDY IN THE GODDAMN MAIN EVENT, YOU STUPID FUCKS!!!


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> The rating isn’t “bad”, but it’s a far cry from the climb in ratings they had been seeing.
> 
> STOP PUTTING CASSIDY IN THE GODDAMN MAIN EVENT, YOU STUPID FUCKS!!!


You don't know number segment did


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> You don't know number segment did


People knew OC would be in the main event before the show began though.


----------



## Pippen94

El Hammerstone said:


> People knew OC would be in the main event before the show began though.


Actually no - but wait for ratings breakdown


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> Actually no - but wait for ratings breakdown


I don't see how they wouldn't know something so obvious, but yeah, I'll wait.


----------



## BuckshotLarry

Good rating for a pretty shit dynamite. NXT is a sinking ship


----------



## P Thriller

The saddest thing about all of this is the fact that just 5 years ago Tough Enough was bringing in more viewers than both of these shows. Nobody wants to watch wrestling anymore. 700,000 viewers is historically not a good amount of viewers. I also don't see AEW's numbers being sustainable. They are benefiting from being brand new with all kinds of fresh characters and fresh matchups. Eventually they are going to become old news and while I think they put on a decent show, I don't think it is anything transcendent to the point where it will be must see tv. As for NXT, they never should have moved to 2 hours live weekly tv. Their old format was perfect. Hour show once a week whose sole purpose was to build towards an amazing Takeover special about 8 times a year or so. It was perfect and not they are like any other show.


----------



## Wolf Mark

😮 *792,000?*

Holly crap that is quite a drop. It's not as if we had not said it time and time and time and time and time again that OC and Jericho were rating losers. You made your your bed TK, you moron, now lay in it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> But they had the AEW Yes Movement in the main event!! HOW COULD THEY HAVE SUCH A HUGE DROP IN RATINGS!!!111&;!3!!!!
> 
> Fucking idiots don’t have a clue how to maintain momentum. Goddamn Orange Cassidy beating Jericho in the fucking main event. I hope the 550k to 650k stupid fucks screaming for Orange Cassidy to main event are fucking happy.


are you ok?

blink twice if you’re in danger


----------



## taker1986

AEW keep beating NXT so badly that they've decided to let NXT win next Wednesday. What a charitable act.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker1986 said:


> AEW keep beating NXT so badly that they've decided to let NXT win next Wednesday. What a charitable act.


good guy Tony Khan
good guy Cody
good guy Orange Cassidy


----------



## Wolf Mark

rexmundi said:


> NXT got rekt. Lost by 173K in viewers ( even more than what AEW won last week) and doubled in the demo.
> 
> This was AEW'S 4th highest in total viewers since March 25 and the.32 demo is tied with the July 22 and Tyson episode as the second highest demo since March 25.
> 
> AEW only got a .26 in the elder demos. Those dudes just don't like OC,


They went from 910 to 792. What on Earth are you even smoking?

Focus on the big wins, not the small wins. Don't be petty.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are you ok?
> 
> blink twice if you’re in danger


Crap. I think Cody managed to track him down.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> Crap. I think Cody managed to track him down.


lol - i would love a video of that interaction


----------



## rexmundi

bdon said:


> The rating isn’t “bad”, but it’s a far cry from the climb in ratings they had been seeing.
> 
> STOP PUTTING CASSIDY IN THE GODDAMN MAIN EVENT, YOU STUPID FUCKS!!!


Their total viewers in 4th highest since Mach 25. Their demo is tied with two others since March 25. They dropped from an episode where clearly Bischoff spiked the rating. AEW did more viewers and demo this week than what they did two weeks ago. Here are the total viewers since July 01: 746K,715K, 788K,845K,773K 901K,792K. You can't take one week's gain and declare it's a far cry from their climb, when the current number is in line and doing better than almost all of their recent shows.

Same for the demo. From July 01 .29,.28,.29,.32,.3,.36..32 The.32 is not as good as last week, but still good, especially in light of the NBA and Shark Week doing very well. Definitely not a far cry from their recent ratings. They did suffer in 50+ so the oldsters don't seem to be fond of OC.

AEW dropped 109K this week. nxt dropped 134K. Wait for the quarter hours, and potentially minute by minute before assigning blame for the rating, rather than kneejerk complaining that it is OC'S fault in a match where Jericho botched multiple times and finally showed his age, as he looked quite tired last night. If the last quarter does tank, then it's on AEW and both involved, but you should compare it to other Dynamite episodes final quarter hours to see how it has done relative to them.


----------



## rbl85

I love how some of you are such haters and a bit of trolls (on certain aspects) that you put the drop on OC when before the show we didn't know it was going to be the main event.

Last week AEW started with 934K viewers and i bet that this they started with at least 100K less.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> I love how some of you are such haters and a bit of trolls (on certain aspects) that you put the drop on OC when *before the show we didn't know it was going to be the main event.*
> 
> Last week AEW started with 934K viewers and i bet that this they started with at least 100K less.


I'm not even trying to be condescending here, but who in the holy hell was expecting it to NOT be the main event? There was never a doubt in my mind.


----------



## Wolf Mark

rexmundi said:


> Their total viewers in 4th highest since Mach 25. Their demo is tied with two others since March 25. They dropped from an episode where clearly Bischoff spiked the rating. AEW did more viewers and demo this week than what they did two weeks ago. Here are the total viewers since July 01: 746K,715K, 788K,845K,773K 901K,792K. You can't take one week's gain and declare it's a far cry from their climb, when the current number is in line and doing better than almost all of their recent shows.
> 
> Same for the demo. From July 01 .29,.28,.29,.32,.3,.36..32 The.32 is not as good as last week, but still good, especially in light of the NBA and Shark Week doing very well. Definitely not a far cry from their recent ratings. They did suffer in 50+ so the oldsters don't seem to be fond of OC.
> 
> AEW dropped 109K this week. nxt dropped 134K. Wait for the quarter hours, and potentially minute by minute before assigning blame for the rating, rather than kneejerk complaining that it is OC'S fault in a match where Jericho botched multiple times and finally showed his age, as he looked quite tired last night. If the last quarter does tank, then it's on AEW and both involved, but you should compare it to other Dynamite episodes final quarter hours to see how it has done relative to them.


They went from 910 to 792 viewers. Stop acting like a loser. You should aim for the big wins.

And if you want them to succeed, they should try to reach for every damn demos. "Oh they won but the old guys didn't like OC, who needs them". Yea you need them. Cause that is why you only got 792 silly.

This is the problem with this generation, you got too many participation medals. It's fine little boy, you finished last but you had the biggest smile.

AEW should aim for the top EVERY DAMN WEEK! They will succeed when they keep being in the 900s in many consecutives shows. Then you will see an even bigger rise. Maybe 1,1, 1,2, 1,3.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I love how some of you are such haters and a bit of trolls (on certain aspects) that you put the drop on OC when before the show we didn't know it was going to be the main event.
> 
> Last week AEW started with 934K viewers and i bet that this they started with at least 100K less.


It "main evented" last time. It was pretty obvious it would again. It involved Jericho and there was no world title match. It is not like Jericho/OC segments were winning in the ratings for the show other than when they had Bischoff.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm not even trying to be condescending here, but who in the holy hell was expecting it to NOT be the main event? There was never a doubt in my mind.


I thought that Cody vs Scorpio could have been the main event.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I thought the Tag team appreciation would main event, as i thought the fall-out would be bigger

but it was that or OC / Jericho


----------



## Pippen94

Aew doing so well doubling nxt in demo is not enough - ppl expect show to be raw in young viewers. Happened last week & will happen again. Main demo gap with raw & smackdoen will close too


----------



## RapShepard

Any quarter hour breakdown?


----------



## Peerless

Anyone else notice how AEW doesn't advertise Moxley's segments the week prior unless it's a title match?

I bet you anything that we won't get him and MJF in a stand off promo in the ring.


----------



## fabi1982

AEW_19 said:


> NXT clearly care about the ratings or they wouldn't be trying to pop a ratings boost on certain weeks. The reason that I can tell that you're angry is comments like NXT aren't scared, they can just use Sasha to win and saying at least NXT can fall back on the network. It's something a kid would say if he's angry and doesn't get his own way.


So you mean you can see how I feel from the distance? This your job?  But honestly, I´m 38 and have a happy life, so having feelings about my guilty pleasure wrestling is something far far away. But I guess you will come up with another mind reading answer, so just think what you think


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They keep alternating high viewership and low viewership, but their ceiling on both has been going up.

People were celebrating the 783k(.30) viewership with the Moxley Vs. Cage main event from 7/15, and now a 792k(.32) viewership with more competition is a failure(to an extent, it is).


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They keep alternating high viewership and low viewership, but their ceiling on both has been going up.
> 
> People were celebrating the 783k(.30) viewership with the Moxley Vs. Cage main event from 7/15, and now a 792k(.32) viewership with more competition is a failure(to an extent, it is).


Not really - some tough competition but still did good demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Peerless said:


> Anyone else notice how AEW doesn't advertise Moxley's segments the week prior unless it's a title match?
> 
> I bet you anything that we won't get him and MJF in a stand off promo in the ring.


and why would we?

it already escalated to violence - now they suddenly just gonna chat?

you might get it at a contract signing though / or ‘press conference’


----------



## Dizzie

Not impressed with Jericho celebrating beating nxt with ratings and demo, is that all they are aiming for, to do better than nxt, when you have a drop of over 100k that isn't something to be boasting about in any form.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Dizzie said:


> Not impressed with Jericho celebrating beating nxt with ratings and demo, is that all they are aiming for, to do better than nxt, when you have a drop of over 100k that isn't something to be boasting about in any form.


They didnt aim to beat anyone, Vince put NXT on USA against them and created this crap.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Let this be the end of the Dork Order finally. They started with the Dorks for 15 minutes. Q2 was that stupid political parody. Didn't they just stuff the TNT title match in the middle of the hour too? They did face vs face tag match at 8pm. The female species appeared for three minutes of broadcast time. And the main event was a rerun. How'd they expect to even beat The Golden Girls with this card?

When Mox isn't the main event, the TNT title match or the women's title match should main event, or they should create a welterweight world title so Fenix can main event (since they won't put him in a title program in any of the three existing male divisions).


----------



## thorn123

I am the biggest AEW fan/defender and I tend to agree OC should only be a mid card novelty.

It is worrying when a great episode like last weeks episode cannot hold its viewers the following week.

I am totally against booking for ratings pops, I prefer the long build. But they need eyes on the product to invest in the long build. Catch 22.

Lastly, they shouldnt be patting themselves on the back for beating NXT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> *I am the biggest AEW fan/defender *and I tend to agree OC should only be a mid card novelty.
> 
> It is worrying when a great episode like last weeks episode cannot hold its viewers the following week.
> 
> I am totally against booking for ratings pops, I prefer the long build. But they need eyes on the product to invest in the long build. Catch 22.
> 
> Lastly, they shouldnt be patting themselves on the back for beating NXT.


i think you’ll find many in agreement that in fact *I* am the biggest AEW defender


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I love how some of you are such haters and a bit of trolls (on certain aspects) that you put the drop on OC when before the show we didn't know it was going to be the main event.
> 
> Last week AEW started with 934K viewers and i bet that this they started with at least 100K less.


You're not really saying anything insightful here. The top of the hour segments (Q1 and Q5) almost always do well for any show, and Q1 is almost always the most viewed. This has been the case for decades for any wrestling promotion. So if the overall number is down, it stands to reason that they started off with fewer viewers.

The overall interest in the show is based on the announced main event. There was literally nothing on that card that was worthy of a main event, and so interest plummeted. It just speaks to how fragile their roster is and how no one outside of Moxley makes any sort of difference. They better hope that MJF becomes a big star with this feud, otherwise their future looks bleak.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> And like always i'm telling you (and i will be right like always on this) the show probably started with way less viewers than last week.


You usually post the quarter hour breakdown right?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> You usually post the quarter hour breakdown right?


I'm not a subscriber anymore so i can't post it.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I'm not a subscriber anymore so i can't post it.


Got you


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wrestlenomics will have the first breakdown, wasn't in the observer this week.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Like I said on the last page, Mox is the central draw (until Miro signs and Pac returns). He is the star. There is no excuse creatively for him not having a match or main event brawl.

There is just little to no continuity from episode to episode. Repeating matches, repeating Archer's last interview or repeating the same political segment is not continuity. That shows they don't have writers. The only story progression is with the Dork fukin Order.


----------



## Not Lying

While waiting for the ratings break-down, I maintain my stance that OC/Y2J would have worked much better and been much better perceived with a crowd. The feud never reached its full potential because OC's character work better with a crowd. 
I think OC has potential unlike many here, but they screwed him with the timing, and Y2J is going a bit off the rails lately, he was the one who sucked in the ME.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294347577840644097


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294347577840644097


So is this all Dave is about now.. finding new and new ways to segment the ratings and have AEW "win"?


----------



## The Wood

Meltzer has jumped the shark. I've got no time for him anymore. Used to defend him as a reporter and he seemed like a nice guy. But he's just being irresponsible now. I know it's just "silly wrestling" to a lot of people, but he's regarded as one of the most prominent voices in the industry outside of the WWE, and he's whoring it out. A lot of people are really bad at critical thinking, and they're not going to be able to discern that he's spouting bullshit a lot of the time. Misinformation is a real problem and he's just making a mess on purpose.


----------



## bdon

No time for him, yet you still commented on something most of us accept as a reality.

Like...c’mon bro. Don’t let it get to you.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> No time for him, yet you still commented on something most of us accept as a reality.
> 
> Like...c’mon bro. Don’t let it get to you.


Huh?


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294373264001646593


----------



## The Wood

39 million unique viewers watched MLB over the weekend. 59 telecasts at ~661,017 per game. I'm sure Meltzer would call that a win for AEW too.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> 39 million unique viewers watched MLB over the weekend. 59 telecasts at ~661,017 per game. I'm sure Meltzer would call that a win for AEW too.


So aew higher rating on average than mlb game. We already it kill that sport in demo


----------



## Wolf Mark

Mister Sinister said:


> Let this be the end of the Dork Order finally. They started with the Dorks for 15 minutes. Q2 was that stupid political parody. Didn't they just stuff the TNT title match in the middle of the hour too? They did face vs face tag match at 8pm. The female species appeared for three minutes of broadcast time. And the main event was a rerun. How'd they expect to even beat The Golden Girls with this card?
> 
> When Mox isn't the main event, the TNT title match or the women's title match should main event, or they should create a welterweight world title so Fenix can main event (since they won't put him in a title program in any of the three existing male divisions).


Women always loses viewers. You cannot have the women title match being last, not until AEW get a decent women division.


----------



## RiverFenix

Sometimes you might have to sacrifice the now for the future - putting Shida in the main event (when she has a worthy opponent) will condition fans into seeing Women's Division as important. 

AEW putting on Shida for a 2 minute squash with no other women's matches is sending the message to fans that they even feel it's not important.


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> So is this all Dave is about now.. finding new and new ways to segment the ratings and have AEW "win"?


Yeah 6 months ago based on trends & data Dave predicted intersection of demos and now its happening - what an idiot he is


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you’ll find many in agreement that in fact *I* am the biggest AEW defender


Ratings fluctuate week to week & also because of competition.


----------



## Garty

Pippen94 said:


> Yeah 6 months ago based on trends & data Dave predicted intersection of demos and now its happening - what an idiot he is


There's no way you're a true Aussie, are you?! Are you 100% sure? I want to see an Ancestry.com test and results before I believe you. I ask because you have a very different view on AEW than your fellow countrymen do around here.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Wolf Mark said:


> Women always loses viewers. You cannot have the women title match being last, not until AEW get a decent women division.


Is that why the NXT women beat AEW men last month? Is that why Shida v Ford gained them viewers when they actually go to wrestle a complete match?

I do agree that they need Tessa Blanchard and some more signings (bring back Awesome Kong) to make this division work before putting it in the main event. If they are going to put the women in the main event, they can do an hour-long royal in the second hour of Dynamite one week (really test their power to hold an audience) or they can do a cage match with Shida, Ford and Blanchard.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Mister Sinister said:


> Is that why the NXT women beat AEW men last month? Is that why Shida v Ford gained them viewers when they actually go to wrestle a complete match?
> 
> I do agree that they need Tessa Blanchard and some more signings (bring back Awesome Kong) to make this division work before putting it in the main event. If they are going to put the women in the main event, they can do an hour-long royal in the second hour of Dynamite one week (really test their power to hold an audience) or they can do a cage match with Shida, Ford and Blanchard.


I don't think Kong can really wrestle anymore, otherwise, she would have been the obvious choice for inaugural champion.


----------



## Garty

El Hammerstone said:


> I don't think Kong can really wrestle anymore, otherwise, she would have been the obvious choice for inaugural champion.


From what I remember, she had agreed to wrestle for AEW, but also had the freedom to return to film the show GLOW, if it had been picked up for another season and well... they were green-lit for another season and she left. That's why her departure was so abrupt and the quick storyline created, to write her off of TV.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Garty said:


> From what I remember, she had agreed to wrestle for AEW, but also had the freedom to return to film the show GLOW, if it had been picked up for another season and well... they were green-lit for another season and she left. That's why her departure was so abrupt and the quick storyline created, to write her off of TV.


Fair enough; I was never really keen on the details.


----------



## Garty

El Hammerstone said:


> Fair enough; I was never really keen on the details.


 Not a problem... a lot of users here DO remember those details and for good reason.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> So aew higher rating on average than mlb game. We already it kill that sport in demo


You tell yourself that is how it works.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Mister Sinister said:


> Is that why the NXT women beat AEW men last month? Is that why Shida v Ford gained them viewers when they actually go to wrestle a complete match?
> 
> I do agree that they need Tessa Blanchard and some more signings (bring back Awesome Kong) to make this division work before putting it in the main event. If they are going to put the women in the main event, they can do an hour-long royal in the second hour of Dynamite one week (really test their power to hold an audience) or they can do a cage match with Shida, Ford and Blanchard.


Most of the time AEW have been losing viewers with their women. We talked about it just last week. NXT get big wins with their women cause it was females from the main rosters and they are big stars. It won't change until they get women that get ratings.


----------



## thorn123

Garty said:


> There's no way you're a true Aussie, are you?! Are you 100% sure? I want to see an Ancestry.com test and results before I believe you. I ask because you have a very different view on AEW than your fellow countrymen do around here.


There is plenty of us Aussie AEW fans out there


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Garty said:


> There's no way you're a true Aussie, are you?! Are you 100% sure? I want to see an Ancestry.com test and results before I believe you. I ask because you have a very different view on AEW than your fellow countrymen do around here.


Imagine a country filled with tens of millions of people all having to agree on how they like pro wrestling...


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine a country filled with tens of millions of people all having to agree on how they like pro wrestling...


That's just more unpunished bait from Garty. He knows 3 Aussies and all of a sudden he knows how we all act. That's racist


----------



## Pippen94

Garty said:


> There's no way you're a true Aussie, are you?! Are you 100% sure? I want to see an Ancestry.com test and results before I believe you. I ask because you have a very different view on AEW than your fellow countrymen do around here.


There's quite number of us here now I notice. 
My theory is Australia is somewhat isolated from rest of world so is slow to embrace new things. On flip side once onboard we are most loyal - most anti aew guys are wwe loyalists despite years of stale product


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> There's quite number of us here now I notice.
> My theory is Australia is somewhat isolated from rest of world so is slow to embrace new things. On flip side once onboard we are most loyal - most anti aew guys are wwe loyalists despite years of stale product


Nope, no matter how many times you say it people who have criticisms of AEW do so because they think they should be doing better, not because they are WWE fans. This is such a dishonest take at this point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> There's quite number of us here now I notice.
> My theory is Australia is somewhat isolated from rest of world so is slow to embrace new things. On flip side once onboard we are most loyal - most anti aew guys are wwe loyalists despite years of stale product


Do you think it is a Sydney / Queensland / Melbourne divide? Ie> you will get more traditionalists elsewhere?

In South Africa, we’re also behind a rock - ie> slow to embrace

but there is a clear Johannesburg / Cape Town / Pretoria divide about how they approach these things


----------



## Randy Lahey

DaveRA said:


> Lastly, they shouldnt be patting themselves on the back for beating NXT.


Considering NXT does demos that are going to get them cancelled (not even charting), it's not much of an accomplishment


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> Considering NXT does demos that are going to get them cancelled (not even charting), it's not much of an accomplishment


Well following is list of all programming sans Raw and religious stuff that's charted last two weeks on USA network. NXT is only just behind Chrisley which is one of USAs flagships and Chrisley is only 30 minutes as opposed to 2 hours. The NHL number is not a mistake it drew 215,000 viewers and 0.09 in 18-49 demo on USA network that Tuesday night.

Thursday August 13th
Chrisley 0.23 and 0.19
Cannonball 0.13

Wednesday August 12th
NXT 0.16

Thursday August 6th
Chrisley 0.24
Cannonball 0.16

Wednesday August 5th
NXT 0.20

Tuesday August 4th
Live NHL playoff 0.09

Thursday July 30th
Chrisley 0.25

Wednesday July 29th
NXT 0.18


----------



## Garty

DaveRA said:


> There is plenty of us Aussie AEW fans out there


Well then, I stand corrected. +1 for the good guys!


----------



## Garty

Pippen94 said:


> There's quite number of us here now I notice.
> My theory is Australia is somewhat isolated from rest of world so is slow to embrace new things. On flip side once onboard we are most loyal - most anti aew guys are wwe loyalists despite years of stale product


There are a lot more than I would have thought, that's for sure. It's like Australia has just recently gotten internet service. Now, there's a whole new world out there to explore for the kiddies. I agree with your isolation assessment.

I wrote in a thread the other day about a member from New Zealand. We were talking about how they've been able to control the CV-19, while it's running rampant in the US. So, I said to him, "you're a small island country, out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by water, with a population of about 5 million, put into total lock-down." His response was "yeah, you may be right".

Anyway, +1 another one for the good guys!


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do you think it is a Sydney / Queensland / Melbourne divide? Ie> you will get more traditionalists elsewhere?
> 
> In South Africa, we’re also behind a rock - ie> slow to embrace
> 
> but there is a clear Johannesburg / Cape Town / Pretoria divide about how they approach these things


That's like most countries around the world, at least that's what my perception of things are. The US is North vs South, East vs West and everyone in the middle. Here in Canada, we have the East Coast by themselves, but as a group of one. Quebec is like it's own country - different rules, laws, funding, leadership, etc. (psst... most of Canada hates Quebec). Ontario is pretty much Toronto and then the rest of the Province, which doesn't matter. Manitoba and Saskatchewan are both flat, brutally cold in the winter and other than Jericho and Omega being from Winnipeg Manitoba and the abundance of wheat fields across both Provinces, there's not much else I can add to the discussion. Alberta is much like Quebec and for good reason. Alberta supplies the world with it's oil production, but since we have a gutless, soulless, spineless, clueless and embarrassing Prime Minister running the country, his one of many SJW mandates, is the environment. Global warming/Climate change. He has gutted Alberta by shutting down most oil production and even killing a multi-billion $ deal, to have oil sent by pipeline from Alberta, into and including the US and finally running through to Mexico. This action killed Alberta's economy and future prosperity. In the last election, the PM and his Liberal Party lost any and all seats they did have, while also gaining nothing in return as well. Alberta now wants (like Quebec always does) to secede from Canada and govern themselves. Then, lastly, we have B.C. on the West Coast. They too, are, let's say "independent" of Canada. It's as if it were, another country. They have the weather, the air, the water, the mountains, the forests, ski resorts, Islands, etc. I would say it's the most beautiful part of Canada. All very tranquil and peaceful for the most part. Just try to avoid the problem areas of Vancouver, (if you're vacationing in and/or around the city), where people are using and dying from Opioid addiction.

There you have it. Nothing to do with wrestling at all, but I thought I'd chime in and echo the same sediments about their respective countries.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Little tidbit : EA sports did some celebrity matchups for the new UFC 4 game on their Youtube, and Omegas matchup has the least number of views by far. Not even close. 15,000 views behind Spice Adams vs. Ethan Pane (who the fuck??) 4,000 views behind the Bella Twins. 

No one outside the hardcore wrestling bubble knows who this fucker is.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Little tidbit : EA sports did some celebrity matchups for the new UFC 4 game on their Youtube, and Omegas matchup has the least number of views by far. Not even close. 15,000 views behind Spice Adams vs. Ethan Pane (who the fuck??) 4,000 views behind the Bella Twins.
> 
> No one outside the hardcore wrestling bubble knows who this fucker is.


Well that’s pretty obvious; he came from japan. Nobody outside of the bubble watches Japan. People inside the bubble don’t watch Japan. And being in AEW doesn’t make you a celebrity. Hell these days, being in WWE won’t make you a celebrity either


----------



## El Hammerstone

RainmakerV2 said:


> Little tidbit : EA sports did some celebrity matchups for the new UFC 4 game on their Youtube, and Omegas matchup has the least number of views by far. Not even close. 15,000 views behind Spice Adams vs. Ethan Pane (who the fuck??) 4,000 views behind the Bella Twins.
> 
> No one outside the hardcore wrestling bubble knows who this fucker is.


I believe they announced him as being a WWE wrestler as well.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> Well that’s pretty obvious; he came from japan. Nobody outside of the bubble watches Japan. People inside the bubble don’t watch Japan. And being in AEW doesn’t make you a celebrity. Hell these days, being in WWE won’t make you a celebrity either


The guy was leader of the Bullet Club, know how many shirts they sold? Im told by many on this forum that Orange Cassidy being a main eventer is justifiable off of t shirt sales. Now I cant use it to judge someones popularity?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> The guy was leader of the Bullet Club, know how many shirts they sold? Im told by many on this forum that Orange Cassidy being a main eventer is justifiable off of t shirt sales. Now I cant use it to judge someones popularity?


you can; of course you can. But you’re comparing a very hardcore and niche fanbase to something that’s “pop culture”. You can main event a show without being a celebrity. That’s just the niche nature of our soap opera.

plus bullet club tshirt sales aren’t an accurate representation of a wrestlers popularity. Don’t be so ridiculous, haha. If a Kenny Omega T-shirt did however many then you could have a point.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> you can; of course you can. But you’re comparing a very hardcore and niche fanbase to something that’s “pop culture”. You can main event a show without being a celebrity. That’s just the niche nature of our soap opera.
> 
> plus bullet club tshirt sales aren’t an accurate representation of a wrestlers popularity. Don’t be so ridiculous, haha. If a Kenny Omega T-shirt did however many then you could have a point.



They never sold more merch than when Omega and the Bucks were the leaders. Everyone knows that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> They never sold more merch than when Omega and the Bucks were the leaders. Everyone knows that.


I didn’t know that. Fair point. But stil, an inaccurate representation of Kenny Omega - I’ve never thought he was a star. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

And he may be a star or a main event guy within AEW. But he may never reach the heights of Cena or even Reigns because he’s not in the major league. If AEW reach that level then we could talk, but I can’t see that happening before Kenny retires.

like hammer said, they even said he was from WWE. that says it all about the level AEW currently sits at in mainstream culture. Nonexistent.


----------



## RainmakerV2

optikk sucks said:


> I didn’t know that. Fair point. But stil, an inaccurate representation of Kenny Omega - I’ve never thought he was a star. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
> 
> And he may be a star or a main event guy within AEW. But he may never reach the heights of Cena or even Reigns because he’s not in the major league. If AEW reach that level then we could talk, but I can’t see that happening before Kenny retires.
> 
> like hammer said, they even said he was from WWE. that says it all about the level AEW currently sits at in mainstream culture. Nonexistent.


I bet you they would have gotten it right had it been Cody, Mox, Jericho. No one knows who he is and its his own fault.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> I bet you they would have gotten it right had it been Cody, Mox, Jericho. No one knows who he is and its his own fault.


Can’t disagree tbh. I also think the AEW PR should be at hand to make sure these things don’t happen. It’s embarrassing for AEW.


----------



## imthegame19

Quarter-hours for AEW & NXT, Aug 12

P2+ AEW / NXT
Q1 775k / 720k
Q2 776 / 607
Q3 779 / 604
Q4 809 / 564
Q5 817 / 591
Q6 862 / 609
Q7 739 / 637
Q8 783 / 621

P18-49 AEW / NXT
Q1 403k / 230k
Q2 409 / 213
Q3 408 / 217
Q4 440 / 174
Q5 437 / 195
Q6 461 / 191
Q7 384 / 220
Q8 398 / 205


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Quarter-hours for AEW & NXT, Aug 12
> 
> P2+ AEW / NXT
> Q1 775k / 720k
> Q2 776 / 607
> Q3 779 / 604
> Q4 809 / 564
> Q5 817 / 591
> Q6 862 / 609
> Q7 739 / 637
> Q8 783 / 621
> 
> P18-49 AEW / NXT
> Q1 403k / 230k
> Q2 409 / 213
> Q3 408 / 217
> Q4 440 / 174
> Q5 437 / 195
> Q6 461 / 191
> Q7 384 / 220
> Q8 398 / 205


Oof what was Q7


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> Oof what was Q7


I think two commercial breaks, Shida vs jobber and preview for next week. I'm sure commercials killed that quarter.


----------



## bdon

But!!! BUT!!! BUT!!!!

I was told by @AEWMoxley that MJF and Moxley would drive things through the roof!! And that the shows are ALWAYS hottest in Q1.

Kenny Omega, Page, and the Bucks...again the top draw of the night. Hmmm...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> But!!! BUT!!! BUT!!!!
> 
> I was told by @AEWMoxley that MJF and Moxley would drive things through the roof!! And that the shows are ALWAYS hottest in Q1.
> 
> Kenny Omega, Page, and the Bucks...again the top draw of the night. Hmmm...


i think you’ll find OC didn’t do too bad in that main event either

maybe not midcarder4lyfe afterall? Especially to recover from that low in Q7

all in all, it proves again AEW basically retains its audience from the leadin

you can bet the other 100k watched on dvr


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> But!!! BUT!!! BUT!!!!
> 
> I was told by @AEWMoxley that MJF and Moxley would drive things through the roof!! And that the shows are ALWAYS hottest in Q1.
> 
> Kenny Omega, Page, and the Bucks...again the top draw of the night. Hmmm...


They gained 8000 viewers and lost viewers in the key demo. Omega, Page, and The Bucks don't draw, bud. They never have. They got absolutely demolished by Sasha Banks, and now AEW always puts them in the safest spots - either Q1 or Q5. Smart of them to do so.


----------



## bdon

At first, I only glanced at AEW’s breakdown. Now I’ve looked at NXT, and damn!

Where would Dynamite have been without Kenny, Page, and the Bucks!?


----------



## bdon

“MJF VS MOXLEY WILL PUT AEW ON THE MAP!!! LOLLERCOASTERZZZZZZ!11!!1!!!!!!”


----------



## imthegame19

So basically

AEW
Q1 775k-Young Bucks/Dark Order

Q2 776-Young bucks/Dark Order end, MJF promo

Q3 779- Mox attack&promo, Matt Hardy backstage promo, Cody/Scorpio Sky start

Q4 809- Cody/Sky end and Brodie Lee challenge, Omega/Page vs Jurassic Express start

Q5 817 Omega/Page vs Jurassic Express end.

Q6 862-Tag Team appreciation/Jericho backstage promo

Q7 739-Shida vs Monroe, Jake Roberts and Archer back stage segment. Run down for next week show.

Q8 783-Jericho/Orange Cassidy

Let's keep in mind these quarters are very subjective. Due to commercial breaks and what NXT has going on etc. So certain wrestlers minute by minutes might have done well. Even though Quarter doesn't look that impressive.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> So basically
> 
> AEW
> Q1 775k-Young Bucks/Dark Order
> 
> Q2 776-MJF promo,Mox attack,Matt Hardy promo
> 
> Q3 779-Cody/Scorpio Sky
> 
> Q4 809- Cody/Sky end and Brodie Lee challenge, Omega/Page vs Jurassic Express start
> 
> Q5 817 Omega/Page vs Jurassic Express end.
> 
> Q6 862-Tag Team appreciation/Jericho backstage promo
> 
> Q7 739-Shida vs Monroe, Jake Roberts and Archer back stage segment. Run down for next week show.
> 
> Q8 783-Jericho/Orange Cassidy
> 
> Let's keep in mind these quarters are very subjective. Due to commercial breaks and what NXT has going on etc. So certain wrestlers minute by minutes might have done well. Even though Quarter doesn't look that impressive.


Yeah, the tag team appreciation segment with FTR and the old timers did much better than I expected. Most viewed of the night.

Most impressive by far was Q2, though. Gaining overall viewers and in the key demo despite two commercial breaks. Q2 is usually a loser more often than not. The minute by minute ratings for that segment must have been massive. Not surprising for the hottest feud the company has had to date.


----------



## bdon

So, we laugh when Jericho does the Demo God stuff, but we’re now arguing for commercial breaks and gains in the demo? Gotcha.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do you think it is a Sydney / Queensland / Melbourne divide? Ie> you will get more traditionalists elsewhere?
> 
> In South Africa, we’re also behind a rock - ie> slow to embrace
> 
> but there is a clear Johannesburg / Cape Town / Pretoria divide about how they approach these things


Yeah, sorry to disrespect any Melbourne folk here but a lot of the 18-40 down there are totally a mess. A bunch of new age left wingers who love welfare and going out to protest in the middle of COVID-19. Every person has some kind of cause they're associated with as well. They're really annoying.

Sydney has it's fair share of fuckwits also but it seems to be less than Melbourne. It's a more traditional city and tends to stop the idiots from getting too out of control.

Brisbane I've never visited before but briefly was seeing a girl from there, she had a stronger Australian accent than me and was pretty racist. She reached out to me 2-3 years ago and told me she was a member of the young Greens which made me pretty sad because she used to be hot but like most young Greens she stuck an earring in her nose and dyed her hair an odd colour so yeah her hotness dropped.

Politically though I believe most of the country is quite traditional. Melbourne like always just likes to fuck everything up and be different. We currently have a right wing government in place.



optikk sucks said:


> Well that’s pretty obvious; he came from japan. Nobody outside of the bubble watches Japan. People inside the bubble don’t watch Japan. And being in AEW doesn’t make you a celebrity. Hell these days, being in WWE won’t make you a celebrity either


Hold on, I've been hearing for 6 months now that Kenny is this gigantic star and when they pull the trigger on him they'll do a rating of eleven million and twelve. Now suddenly he's not a big star?



El Hammerstone said:


> I believe they announced him as being a WWE wrestler as well.


And this is exactly why I made my post the other day about trying to stand out and be different. If it looks, sounds and smells like WWE you're going to be called WWE.



bdon said:


> So, we laugh when Jericho does the Demo God stuff, but we’re now arguing for commercial breaks and gains in the demo? Gotcha.


It's a "Must. Defend. AEW." situation with a lot of these guys unfortunately. A few bring legitimate discussion to the table but when we're getting into shit like "In quarter 7 the 18-49 rating in the female demographic was beating the WWE by half a point" it gets a little ridiculous.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, sorry to disrespect any Melbourne folk here but a lot of the 18-40 down there are totally a mess. A bunch of new age left wingers who love welfare and going out to protest in the middle of COVID-19. Every person has some kind of cause they're associated with as well. They're really annoying.
> 
> Sydney has it's fair share of fuckwits also but it seems to be less than Melbourne. It's a more traditional city and tends to stop the idiots from getting too out of control.
> 
> Brisbane I've never visited before but briefly was seeing a girl from there, she had a stronger Australian accent than me and was pretty racist. She reached out to me 2-3 years ago and told me she was a member of the young Greens which made me pretty sad because she used to be hot but like most young Greens she stuck an earring in her nose and dyed her hair an odd colour so yeah her hotness dropped.
> 
> Politically though I believe most of the country is quite traditional. Melbourne like always just likes to fuck everything up and be different. We currently have a right wing government in place.
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on, I've been hearing for 6 months now that Kenny is this gigantic star and when they pull the trigger on him they'll do a rating of eleven million and twelve. Now suddenly he's not a big star?
> 
> 
> 
> And this is exactly why I made my post the other day about trying to stand out and be different. If it looks, sounds and smells like WWE you're going to be called WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a "Must. Defend. AEW." situation with a lot of these guys unfortunately. A few bring legitimate discussion to the table but when we're getting into shit like "In quarter 7 the 18-49 rating in the female demographic was beating the WWE by half a point" it gets a little ridiculous.


Omega has never been a star to me. I’ve always argued that. Don’t assume my opinion.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Omega has never been a star to me. I’ve always argued that. Don’t assume my opinion.


I didn't, I simply said the general consensus on this board for half a year has been how great this guy is and you've never disagreed. Now he's nothing.


----------



## DaSlacker

Relegate the women's division to Dark. They can't even get close to WWE when it comes to the female aspect and the fans realize it.

Bring back The Snake Pit and/or show some BTE.


----------



## One Shed

So #DemoGod and "major draw" OC got second lowest of the night in the demo and a legends segment got first? Anyone predict this? Oh wait...


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> They gained 8000 viewers and lost viewers in the key demo. Omega, Page, and The Bucks don't draw, bud. They never have. They got absolutely demolished by Sasha Banks, and now AEW always puts them in the safest spots - either Q1 or Q5. Smart of them to do so.


You gotta hand it to Omega/Page and Bucks. Since the past 4 or 5 weeks there stuff has been drawing very well. Yes it wasn't always that way(Omega/Page vs Best Friends didn't do well main eventing night one of Fyter Fest for example). But people are really into what they are doing with FTR and Dark Order. So you gotta give them credit right now.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> So, we laugh when Jericho does the Demo God stuff, but we’re now arguing for commercial breaks and gains in the demo? Gotcha.


To be fair commercial breaks have huge impact in some of these quarters. That is why they are misleading.

I leaned that a few weeks ago when MJF was in a quarter that did 720. But his minute by minut that quarter averaged 779.


----------



## One Shed

Just to put a bow on this experiment, this is what has happened:

6/24 - 633,000 - OC segment did 552,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, lowest segment in show's history)
7/1 - No OC segment
7/8 - 715,000 - OC match with Jericho did 675,000 (lowest on show, 4/8 in demo)
7/15 - 788,000 - OC segment did 765,000 (second lowest on show, 5/8 in demo).
7/22 - 845,000 - OC appeared for a few seconds at the end so I am not counting it but the main event was the second lowest of the night and that is where people would have expected him to appear, 5/8 in demo.
7/29 - 773,000 - OC segment did 718,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, 6/8 in demo) 
8/5 - 901,000 - OC segment did 918,000 (4/8 on the show, highest in demo, had Bischoff on TNT for first time in 20 years)
8/12 - 792,000 - OC match with Jericho did 783,000 (4/8 on the show, 7/8 in the demo)

So we have your top star in Jericho getting middle of the road or worse in total audience AND demo except for the show where Bischoff appeared. And yet people were arguing with me that OC was the draw for that segment, not Bischoff. Weird how that was the ONLY segment since this silliness started that actually did better than average in the demo for the show.

#EndThisNow. This should be all the evidence anyone would need to put this goof back down the card right? Or are we happy with mediocrity at best and piss poor at worst?


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> So #DemoGod and "major draw" OC got second lowest of the night in the demo and a legends segment got first? Anyone predict this? Oh wait...


I'm not a fan of using Orange Cassidy in main event. But if we're being fair this rating is solid. When you factor in they had commercial break during the match and went up against NXT main event. So you can't really compare the two segments. 


Since quarters could have flip flop if you put Jericho/Cassidy at 815 and take away commercial break. Again these quarters are very misleading and don't really mean anything. Besides fans trying to say who draws and who doesn't. But it's flawed way for us to judge things.

TNT and AEW have legit minute by minute data and how they performs head to head in certain quarters. Which really tells them who are the draws and who aren't.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> Just to put a bow on this experiment, this is what has happened:
> 
> 6/24 - 633,000 - OC segment did 552,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, lowest segment in show's history)
> 7/1 - No OC segment
> 7/8 - 715,000 - OC match with Jericho did 675,000 (lowest on show, 4/8 in demo)
> 7/15 - 788,000 - OC segment did 765,000 (second lowest on show, 5/8 in demo).
> 7/22 - 845,000 - OC appeared for a few seconds at the end so I am not counting it but the main event was the second lowest of the night and that is where people would have expected him to appear, 5/8 in demo.
> 7/29 - 773,000 - OC segment did 718,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, 6/8 in demo)
> 8/5 - 901,000 - OC segment did 918,000 (4/8 on the show, highest in demo, had Bischoff on TNT for first time in 20 years)
> 8/12 - 792,000 - OC match with Jericho did 783,000 (4/8 on the show, 7/8 in the demo)
> 
> So we have your top star in Jericho getting middle of the road or worse in total audience AND demo except for the show where Bischoff appeared. And yet people were arguing with me that OC was the draw for that segment, not Bischoff. Weird how that was the ONLY segment since this silliness started that actually did better than average in the demo for the show.
> 
> #EndThisNow. This should be all the evidence anyone would need to put this goof back down the card right? Or are we happy with mediocrity at best and piss poor at worst?


Unless you have how his segments did in minute by minutes and how they valued in each quarter tier. Then this is all pointless. If Orange Cassidy is the one guy getting the big win vs a top guy. Not Darby, Sammy, Jungle Boy etc. Well unfortunately his numbers overall must be pretty good.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Lheurch said:


> Just to put a bow on this experiment, this is what has happened:
> 
> 6/24 - 633,000 - OC segment did 552,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, lowest segment in show's history)
> 7/1 - No OC segment
> 7/8 - 715,000 - OC match with Jericho did 675,000 (lowest on show, 4/8 in demo)
> 7/15 - 788,000 - OC segment did 765,000 (second lowest on show, 5/8 in demo).
> 7/22 - 845,000 - OC appeared for a few seconds at the end so I am not counting it but the main event was the second lowest of the night and that is where people would have expected him to appear, 5/8 in demo.
> 7/29 - 773,000 - OC segment did 718,000 (lowest on show, beaten by NXT, 6/8 in demo)
> 8/5 - 901,000 - OC segment did 918,000 (4/8 on the show, highest in demo, had Bischoff on TNT for first time in 20 years)
> 8/12 - 792,000 - OC match with Jericho did 783,000 (4/8 on the show, 7/8 in the demo)
> 
> So we have your top star in Jericho getting middle of the road or worse in total audience AND demo except for the show where Bischoff appeared. And yet people were arguing with me that OC was the draw for that segment, not Bischoff. Weird how that was the ONLY segment since this silliness started that actually did better than average in the demo for the show.
> 
> #EndThisNow. This should be all the evidence anyone would need to put this goof back down the card right? Or are we happy with mediocrity at best and piss poor at worst?


As the great man Jim Cornette would say "GOD FUCKING DAMN IT! FUNNY DON'T DRAW MONEY! FUCK!"


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> Unless you have how his segments did in minute by minutes and how they valued in each quarter tier. Then this is all pointless. If Orange Cassidy is the one guy getting the big win vs a top guy. Not Darby, Sammy, Jungle Boy etc. Well unfortunately his numbers overall must be pretty good.


Yeah, it's all just some big misunderstanding that the ratings suck when Orange is around. Lets find something else to blame so that we don't have to admit how much the funny pale man who puts his hands in his pockets sucks.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I've got news for you all; if we are going to peg Orange Cassidy as a main eventer, then he will be in main events, and if he's in main events, then he will therefore be up against the other show's main event. That's not an excuse.


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> Unless you have how his segments did in minute by minutes and how they valued in each quarter tier. Then this is all pointless. If Orange Cassidy is the one guy getting the big win vs a top guy. Not Darby, Sammy, Jungle Boy etc. Well unfortunately his numbers overall must be pretty good.


So now demo ratings suddenly matter less when they show something other than what fan boys (not calling you one) want. Goal post moving yet again. Expected but still amazing.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> So now demo ratings suddenly matter less when they show something other than what fan boys (not calling you one) want. Goal post moving yet again. Expected but still amazing.


Demos do matter most that's what network value most. Everyone knows that. Demos in minute by minute are factored in as well. Again I don't think it's a good idea Orange Cassidy is getting TWO Jericho main event matches. But these quarters tell us nothing.


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> Demos do matter most that's what network value most. Everyone knows that. Demos in minute by minute are factored in as well. Again I don't think it's a good idea Orange Cassidy is getting TWO Jericho main event matches. But these quarters tell us nothing.


They certainly tell us SOMETHING. Hopefully I will at least be hearing less about how OC is an obvious main event draw. I doubt it, but at least whoever makes that argument now will have the same level of credibility as the disheveled guy warning "the end is nigh" on the street corner.


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> I've got news for you all; if we are going to peg Orange Cassidy as a main eventer, then he will be in main events, and if he's in main events, then he will therefore be up against the other show's main event. That's not an excuse.


The point is main events often don't have highest quarters due to commercial break and competition. This week's main event did very similar to high and low rated in quarters usually do. I'm just trying to be fair here. Go back two months and main event quarter will usually be 2nd to 4th lowest quarter of the night.


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> The point is main events often don't have highest quarters due to commercial break and competition. This week's main event did very similar to high and low rated in quarters usually do. I'm just trying to be fair here. Go back two months and main event quarter will usually be 2nd to 4th lowest quarter of the night.


I did go back two months. That was my point. Almost like what was being presented as a main event did not draw well. Every segment has competition by definition. If your main event is doing relatively poorly or average compared to the rest of the show, is it really the "main event?"


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> You gotta hand it to Omega/Page and Bucks. Since the past 4 or 5 weeks there stuff has been drawing very well. Yes it wasn't always that way(Omega/Page vs Best Friends didn't do well main eventing night one of Fyter Fest for example). But people are really into what they are doing with FTR and Dark Order. So you gotta give them credit right now.


So they were feuding with a goof team and did poorly and now building up a feud with a good team but we are giving most of the credit to the Bucks and not FTR? How does that work?


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> They certainly tell us SOMETHING. Hopefully I will at least be hearing less about how OC is an obvious main event draw. I doubt it, but at least whoever makes that argument now will have the same level of credibility as the disheveled guy warning "the end is nigh" on the street corner.


Well numbers show he's not difference maker. But I thought that was obvious to people. Basically his main event did same level most main events do on the show when factoring in other quarters. 


Remember last weeks main event had 2nd lowest demo and quarter of the night too and that was World Title Match. That was really well liked by majority of fans. I think last main event that did really well compared to rest of the show in demo and quarter was Mox/Cage


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> Well numbers show he's not difference maker. But I thought that was obvious to people. Basically his main event did same level most main events do on the show when factoring in other quarters.
> 
> 
> Remember last weeks main event had 2nd lowest demo and quarter of the night too and that was World Title Match. That was really well liked by majority of fans. I think last main event that did really well compared to rest of the show in demo and quarter was Mox/Cage


Yeah showing main event talent in your main event consistently is a good way to build up ratings and the reputation for having good main events. If you stick a goof in there for a couple months and in the middle of that a world title match with one week of build, maybe you are still riding that wave of mediocrity? That part is just speculation on my part but objectively, OC being in the main event has dragged down the quality and ratings of those segments.

Some adult somewhere needs to end this nonsense. If they actually go ahead with a singles rubber match at the PPV, they will have learned nothing. If Jericho signed a three year deal, that means 7-8 more Jericho PPV matches to build people, and one will be wasted on this goof.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> I did go back two months. That was my point. Almost like what was being presented as a main event did not draw well. Every segment has competition by definition. If your main event is doing relatively poorly or average compared to the rest of the show, is it really the "main event?"


Yes because you are going head to head with another show. With data showing your show has big shift n viewers between the shows. If AEW has something really entertaining between 745 or 815 and NXT has crap. Or NXT has quarter with bunch of commercial breaks and AEW doesnt. Well AEW can have big spike in viewers. So doing big quarter in 2 5 or 6 isn't quite same as doing it in main event. 


When NXT has their main event vs your main event. You are going to split your viewers because you are getting the shows best thing at same time. Not to mention commercial break cause big swings. Minute by minute numbers can drop quarters in 500 to 600 viewers bringing overall quarters down. With so many people going back and forth. Which makes it hard to be your highest rated segment. It would be different story if there wasn't head to head show going on. That's why things will be interesting the next few weeks.


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> Yes because you are going head to head with another show. With data showing your show has big shift n viewers between the shows. If AEW has something really entertaining between 745 or 815 and NXT has crap. Or NXT has quarter with bunch of commercial breaks and AEW doesnt. Well AEW can have big spike in viewers. So doing big quarter in 2 5 or 6 isn't quite same as doing it in main event.
> 
> 
> When NXT has their main event vs your main event. You are going to split your viewers because you are getting the shows best thing at same time. Not to mention commercial break cause big swings. Minute by minute numbers can drop quarters in 500 to 600 viewers bringing overall quarters down. With so many people going back and forth. Which makes it hard to be your highest rated segment. It would be different story if there wasn't head to head show going on. That's why things will be interesting the next few weeks.


But when one show puts on something piss poor in that main event slot it will do worse than if not. The next few weeks will be interesting. For me, I probably will not count them against them since a time slot change will absolutely affect the audience, especially the casuals who may forget but of course on the other hand could do better do to no content competition at least for a couple of them, not the night with the Takeover.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> You gotta hand it to Omega/Page and Bucks. Since the past 4 or 5 weeks there stuff has been drawing very well. Yes it wasn't always that way(Omega/Page vs Best Friends didn't do well main eventing night one of Fyter Fest for example). But people are really into what they are doing with FTR and Dark Order. So you gotta give them credit right now.


Most people don't understand data analysis. When someone at AEW or TNT, or WWE and USA/FOX, for that matter, perform an analysis on quarter hour or minute by minute ratings, they don't look at it like most people here do. As someone who analyzes data for a living I'll tell you what they do. 

They'll take all of the raw data, and first they will determine long term trends, such as which quarters are likely to gain or lose viewers. There are decades worth of data for this on top of all the data since Dynamite's debut. From that data, we know that the top of each hour generally does well - that's Q1 and Q5, and in the case of RAW, Q6, too. 

Next, they will look at how much each individual gains in their quarter. The gain is a measure of how much a star adds to that particular segment, which is more indicative of star power than the overall number, as it lacks context.

From there, they will compare overall trends to how much each individual gains in a specific quarter, to see the true value an individual brings to a segment. If a particular quarter tends to gain 20K viewers, on average, but someone gains 8K in that quarter, for example, that actually hurts them. On the other hand, if a quarter loses 15K viewers, on average, but someone gains 5K in that particular quarter, that raises their value.

The model they would use to analyze this data and determine statistical relationships is a multiple regression model, which would calculate how much effect a star actually has on the segments in which he appears.

Of course, competition plays into it, too.

Back to Page/Omega and The Bucks. The reason I'm not impressed is because they've lost viewers in seemingly half the segments they've appeared in, and even when they gain viewers, it's a minuscule amount more often than not, despite usually being in the most safe quarters. The company has no faith in their star power either, as they usually put them in Q1 or Q5 - the safest quarters. Rightfully so, because when they went up against Sasha Banks, they got emasculated. But that tells you all you need to know about how the company views them.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> But!!! BUT!!! BUT!!!!
> 
> I was told by @AEWMoxley that MJF and Moxley would drive things through the roof!! And that the shows are ALWAYS hottest in Q1.
> 
> Kenny Omega, Page, and the Bucks...again the top draw of the night. Hmmm...


What are you talking about?
MJF/Moxley had a slight gain on Q1 and built for the rest. And it's a fact Moxley is AEW's biggest draw, he should be main eventing every show. 

Isn't Q6 Tag Team appreciation night? The legends tend to do well as well.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> What are you talking about?
> MJF/Moxley had a slight gain on Q1 and built for the rest. And it's a fact Moxley is AEW's biggest draw, he should be main eventing every show.
> 
> Isn't Q6 Tag Team appreciation night? The legends tend to do well as well.


Of course he is their biggest draw. I’m slapping one in particular upside the head who has argued that Omega always loses viewers. Even when facts were laid before him in the past, he still denied it, because he is a LIAR.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you’ll find many in agreement that in fact *I* am the biggest AEW defender


I dunno man my very first thread I started in support of AEW I was called an alternate account and a paid poster lol.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> But when one show puts on something piss poor in that main event slot it will do worse than if not. The next few weeks will be interesting. For me, I probably will not count them against them since a time slot change will absolutely affect the audience, especially the casuals who may forget but of course on the other hand could do better do to no content competition at least for a couple of them, not the night with the Takeover.


Well that's why this week Orange Cassidy/Jericho gained viewers. While last Jericho/Orange Cassidy match lost viewers. Because it wasn't going up against Cole/Lee. But my point is almost every Dynamite last two months had 1st to 3rd lowest quarter of the show due to going up against NXT main event. Which has featured Jericho(not just vs Cassidy), Omega/Page, Moxley and Cody. So we can't make big deal about Jericho/Orange Cassidy doing that as well. Just because people don't like Orange Cassidy and think he should be in this spot. 


Now Mox/Cage did have highest quarter main event on July 15th. But IMO people saw that as more of ppv quality main event. Since it had 6 plus weeks of build up with big fight feel for tv match. While your typical Dynamite main event doesn't have that type of build up. Well maybe Orange Cassidy/Jericho did. But obviously people don't view it as a big deal. Since it finished like your typical main event. 

As for next week I think they will get between 700 to 800 viewers on Saturday. With combo of good NBA lead in and no NXT during first hour. How it does on Thursdays not going up against NXT will be bigger test. Wrestling always been known for their fans following them on whatever night they are put on. So we will see if that happens again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Omega has never been a star to me. I’ve always argued that. Don’t assume my opinion.


i think the hyperbole gets the better of us - the most famous active wrestler, is still a c-list celeb at best

personally, when i talk about ’stars’ - its in the context of the industry as it currently stands

“JungleBoy has ‘superstar’ “ potential. That is in a wrestling context, not in a mainstream one. No one is thinking he’ll be dating Billy Eilish anytime soon.

All that being said - as a wrestler / in that context / Kenny is a star


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - who thought in 2019 that OC will be the ‘Roman Reigns’ in the eyes of many AEW fans

what a weird year we’re having


----------



## Mister Sinister

It was a doodoo card. What is there to say about the quarters. They don't know how to write because they aren't writers. They need a captain in creative. They stuck that TNT title match in the middle of the first hour between quarter hours. They didn't have a main event, and they didn't promote anything last week to draw interest. They started low. MJF is a dud. This HW title feud is nutless.

There is no heat. No one cares about the Dork Order. There are no villains who are strong.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> There are a lot more than I would have thought, that's for sure. It's like Australia has just recently gotten internet service. Now, there's a whole new world out there to explore for the kiddies. I agree with your isolation assessment.
> 
> I wrote in a thread the other day about a member from New Zealand. We were talking about how they've been able to control the CV-19, while it's running rampant in the US. So, I said to him, "you're a small island country, out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by water, with a population of about 5 million, put into total lock-down." His response was "yeah, you may be right".
> 
> Anyway, +1 another one for the good guys!


What the fuck is with this xenophobia? Cut that out. 



RainmakerV2 said:


> Little tidbit : EA sports did some celebrity matchups for the new UFC 4 game on their Youtube, and Omegas matchup has the least number of views by far. Not even close. 15,000 views behind Spice Adams vs. Ethan Pane (who the fuck??) 4,000 views behind the Bella Twins.
> 
> No one outside the hardcore wrestling bubble knows who this fucker is.


I’m not surprised. I love listening to a podcast called SCG Radio. They seem pretty high on AEW overall, but their AEW-themed podcasts always seem to generate less interest than their other ones.

The



imthegame19 said:


> Unless you have how his segments did in minute by minutes and how they valued in each quarter tier. Then this is all pointless. If Orange Cassidy is the one guy getting the big win vs a top guy. Not Darby, Sammy, Jungle Boy etc. Well unfortunately his numbers overall must be pretty good.


This is a dangerous assumption to make. Ric Flair and Goldberg were the biggest ratings draws in WCW. How were they treated? This company isn’t necessarily doing the right/smart thing just because you like tjem



El Hammerstone said:


> I've got news for you all; if we are going to peg Orange Cassidy as a main eventer, then he will be in main events, and if he's in main events, then he will therefore be up against the other show's main event. That's not an excuse.


Thank you. I cannot believe I was reading that. 



imthegame19 said:


> Demos do matter most that's what network value most. Everyone knows that. Demos in minute by minute are factored in as well. Again I don't think it's a good idea Orange Cassidy is getting TWO Jericho main event matches. But these quarters tell us nothing.


.


AEWMoxley said:


> Most people don't understand data analysis. When someone at AEW or TNT, or WWE and USA/FOX, for that matter, perform an analysis on quarter hour or minute by minute ratings, they don't look at it like most people here do. As someone who analyzes data for a living I'll tell you what they do.
> 
> They'll take all of the raw data, and first they will determine long term trends, such as which quarters are likely to gain or lose viewers. There are decades worth of data for this on top of all the data since Dynamite's debut. From that data, we know that the top of each hour generally does well - that's Q1 and Q5, and in the case of RAW, Q6, too.
> 
> Next, they will look at how much each individual gains in their quarter. The gain is a measure of how much a star adds to that particular segment, which is more indicative of star power than the overall number, as it lacks context.
> 
> From there, they will compare overall trends to how much each individual gains in a specific quarter, to see the true value an individual brings to a segment. If a particular quarter tends to gain 20K viewers, on average, but someone gains 8K in that quarter, for example, that actually hurts them. On the other hand, if a quarter loses 15K viewers, on average, but someone gains 5K in that particular quarter, that raises their value.
> 
> The model they would use to analyze this data and determine statistical relationships is a multiple regression model, which would calculate how much effect a star actually has on the segments in which he appears.
> 
> Of course, competition plays into it, too.
> 
> Back to Page/Omega and The Bucks. The reason I'm not impressed is because they've lost viewers in seemingly half the segments they've appeared in, and even when they gain viewers, it's a minuscule amount more often than not, despite usually being in the most safe quarters. The company has no faith in their star power either, as they usually put them in Q1 or Q5 - the safest quarters. Rightfully so, because when they went up against Sasha Banks, they got emasculated. But that tells you all you need to know about how the company views them.


There’s some common sense for ya.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do you think it is a Sydney / Queensland / Melbourne divide? Ie> you will get more traditionalists elsewhere?
> 
> In South Africa, we’re also behind a rock - ie> slow to embrace
> 
> but there is a clear Johannesburg / Cape Town / Pretoria divide about how they approach these things


Not particularly - Most progressive & multicultural places are the biggest cities but that is true of most countries. Melbourne is noted for its creative arts community but Sydney is more important city internationally because of business & tourism. For a long time Queensland was seen by the rest as behind the times with large regional & retiree population, however due to migration a place like Brisbane has become quite culturally diverse.
I think in general because of distance from rest of world there is less attention played to what's going on elsewhere. Trends & fashions may take a little while to get here as result.


----------



## Dizzie

Aside from one person, is nobody else going to bring up the glaringly obvious fact that the women on the show are continuously dragging the ratings down for dynamite shows.

They should should copy what wwe did to create a passable women's division on the main roster by using nxt as the place to slowly build up a good core of women wrestlers before putting them on the main roster.

Aew need to give the whiny pc brigade on twitter the middle finger and just keep the women on dark and use it as a base to create a passable women's division and once they have achieved that then they can move the division up and showcase it on the main show.


----------



## Garty

imthegame19 said:


> Quarter-hours for AEW & NXT, Aug 12
> 
> P2+ AEW / NXT
> *Q1 775k / 720k
> Q2 776 / 607
> Q3 779 / 604
> Q4 809 / 564*
> Q5 817 / 591
> Q6 862 / 609
> Q7 739 / 637
> Q8 783 / 621


Those in bold are very telling. It's fairly close for both companies at 8PM and then by 8:15, AEW grows ever so slightly, all the way through to 9PM, whereas NXT loses 110,000 viewers, just from 8:15PM to 8:30PM. NXT continues to slowly drop through Q3 and then drops off again in Q4. At the end of hour 1, NXT had lost 160,000 viewers. Then NXT slowly recovers some viewers, with a total of 620,000 viewers by the end of the show at 10PM, down 100,000 viewers than what they started the night with, at 720,000 viewers.

With AEW's numbers either holding steady, or slowly rising, what the hell happened with NXT, especially those in Q2? Where did 110,000 viewers go? AEW didn't have much of an increase of viewers in that same period of time, so NXT viewers didn't switch over to AEW. That is not a trend, any program would want, most of all going into the fall.

With the upcoming Fall Season of Network and Cable TV, debuting new programs, season premieres of current programs, time-change and/or day-change rescheduling, possible preemption for 2020 Election coverage, all live sports (finishing 2020 season, resting 1-2 months, starting 2020-2021 season) and whatever else might come along. Both of the Wednesday night shows will take a hit. With the NXT numbers as low as they are now and with the upcoming onslaught of the above, I really do feel, that by the end of the year (or earlier), WWE will take NXT off USA Network and put it back on WWE Network. They've got to do something to save NXT from itself.

As I have mentioned previously, I gave up on NXT about 6 weeks ago, after being there from the very beginning. Since the move to USA Network, the show has had some bright spots, without question, but overall right now, it has become another WWE "entertainment" program, that happens to have wrestling matches. Their stories were told in the ring. Not backstage. Not in the parking-lot. Not an in-ring promo. Not an interview before/after a match. Yes, all of these things are required to engage the viewer, but the role of importance has flip-flopped.

In my opinion, NXT was always wrestling first, character second and spectacle third. Now you have, spectacle first, character second and wrestling third. Putting it back on WWE Network, could be the answer to all questions.


----------



## RainmakerV2

I expected NXT to get smashed. They shot their only meaningful segment with Kross and Lee in the first 15 minutes and the rest of the show was nothing with an advertised main event featuring Cameron Grimes and Kushida. The drop from Q1 to Q2 after Kross and Lee were done is pretty telling. AEW should have won by 200k or more.

Surprised NXT doesn't feature Balor more tbh. Im not a big fan but he does have a name and the ladies love him.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Dizzie said:


> Aside from one person, is nobody else going to bring up the glaringly obvious fact that the women on the show are continuously dragging the ratings down for dynamite shows.
> 
> They should should copy what wwe did to create a passable women's division on the main roster by using nxt as the place to slowly build up a good core of women wrestlers before putting them on the main roster.
> 
> Aew need to give the whiny pc brigade on twitter the middle finger and just keep the women on dark and use it as a base to create a passable women's division and once they have achieved that then they can move the division up and showcase it on the main show.


They keep throwing pointless, short squash matches on tv with women that either have never worked tv or who have only wrestled maybe once on tv all year, and they only do one segment and keep putting them in Q6/Q7. The management of the division is a wreck.

When they do a real story and give them real matches like they did with Shida and Ford they gain viewers.

Someone high in AEW doesn't want to give the women a leg to stand on because they fear it will lead to two or three segments a week for them if the network sees that a real women's program can add 200k more viewers.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> I expected NXT to get smashed. They shot their only meaningful segment with Kross and Lee in the first 15 minutes and the rest of the show was nothing with an advertised main event featuring Cameron Grimes and Kushida. The drop from Q1 to Q2 after Kross and Lee were done is pretty telling. AEW should have won by 200k or more.
> 
> Surprised NXT doesn't feature Balor more tbh. Im not a big fan but he does have a name and the ladies love him.


WWE has been very conservative with their approach to NXT, and it's surprising how close they come to being preferred over AEW. When NXT got that little win streak going before the fans willed things back to AEW, people forget that it was an ordinary episode of NXT that started that. And while I am sure there are AEW fans that like NXT too and will watch NXT later in the week, either on DVR or the WWE Network, I'm not sure there are that many wrestling fans who like both shows and prioritise NXT over AEW.

If NXT and AEW were on different days, I think AEW would actually see far less of an increase than NXT. I think the people who really want to watch AEW are already watching it. A lot of people watching AEW would watch NXT on a different night. With Dynamite being shuffled around for the next few weeks, it'd be a really good chance to do some angles and really try and hook people.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> WWE has been very conservative with their approach to NXT, and it's surprising how close they come to being preferred over AEW. When NXT got that little win streak going before the fans willed things back to AEW, people forget that it was an ordinary episode of NXT that started that. And while I am sure there are AEW fans that like NXT too and will watch NXT later in the week, either on DVR or the WWE Network, I'm not sure there are that many wrestling fans who like both shows and prioritise NXT over AEW.
> 
> If NXT and AEW were on different days, I think AEW would actually see far less of an increase than NXT. I think the people who really want to watch AEW are already watching it. A lot of people watching AEW would watch NXT on a different night. With Dynamite being shuffled around for the next few weeks, it'd be a really good chance to do some angles and really try and hook people.


we‘ll find out wednesday

i think nxt sees a small bump, but nothing spectacular

they don’t get into the top 5 suddenly


----------



## The Wood

It's also the go-home show for Takeover XXX. I imagine we'll get something big with Adam Cole/Pat McAfee. Maybe involving Shawn Michaels? You've got Finn Balor vs. Velveteen Dream. I don't think it's wise to push Dream hard out the gate, so I'd like to see Balor win that one and Gargano also get into the Ladder Match. But I imagine we'll get those two singles matches, which should be fine wrestling matches. I hope they set up Kushida vs. Dream, because Kushida is awesome. I hope we get Mercedes Martinez vs. Kacy Catanzaro, because Kacy is cute as a button and Mercedes is really good. Announce a Women's Tag Team Title shot for Mercedes & Aliyah for the next week. The Undisputed Era took out Killian Dain & Drake Maverick, so I'd be fine seeing a tag match there. They need some babyface teams that aren't Fandango & Tyler Breeze. Speaking of which, they'll probably team with Shane Strickland against El Legado del Fantasma. That would be a "hot opener." Santos Escobar's group should obviously win. I think it might be time for a Barbershop moment between Fandango and Tyler Breeze though. I've always liked both guys, but this team isn't really working. Time to evolve this shit. Then you've got your obvious title program builds. 

Eh, sounds like a pretty easy and simple show to lay-up. Go home and being unopposed are both in NXT's favour.


----------



## bdon

Why would you not completely shit on McAfee vs Adam Cole, Wood bro? You know that is some stupid, _WWE_-_Lite _bullshit. That is NOT the NXT that the diehards have grown to know over the last 7 years, and you know it.

By the way, it is comical how small a fucking NFL PUNTER makes Adam Cole look, calling him an elf and shit.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Yes because you are going head to head with another show. With data showing your show has big shift n viewers between the shows. If AEW has something really entertaining between 745 or 815 and NXT has crap. Or NXT has quarter with bunch of commercial breaks and AEW doesnt. Well AEW can have big spike in viewers. So doing big quarter in 2 5 or 6 isn't quite same as doing it in main event.
> 
> 
> When NXT has their main event vs your main event. You are going to split your viewers because you are getting the shows best thing at same time. Not to mention commercial break cause big swings. Minute by minute numbers can drop quarters in 500 to 600 viewers bringing overall quarters down. With so many people going back and forth. Which makes it hard to be your highest rated segment. It would be different story if there wasn't head to head show going on. That's why things will be interesting the next few weeks.


It's not that you don't have a point to some degree. It's just hilarious that we're now down to "hey you can't prove anything unless we talk minute by minute". Cassidy isn't drawing great, but he's not killing them beyond repair either. It comes off just as desperate when you go to such extremes.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol - who thought in 2019 that OC will be the ‘Roman Reigns’ in the eyes of many AEW fans
> 
> what a weird year we’re having


That's actually hilarious especially since the dislike they get is for the same things but different reasons [emoji23].


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Why would you not completely shit on McAfee vs Adam Cole, Wood bro? You know that is some stupid, _WWE_-_Lite _bullshit. That is NOT the NXT that the diehards have grown to know over the last 7 years, and you know it.
> 
> By the way, it is comical how small a fucking NFL PUNTER makes Adam Cole look, calling him an elf and shit.


I’ve got no problem with outside athletes being used in wrestling. That’s pretty standard pro-wrestling. From what I’ve seen, the execution has been...washy. I thought the set-up was too staged, but it actually fooled some fans (“kayfabe is dead!”), but the clips I’ve seen after that haven’t gotten me excited, per se. But even if it’s bad in execution, I don’t think the concept itself is bad.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I’ve got no problem with outside athletes being used in wrestling. That’s pretty standard pro-wrestling. From what I’ve seen, the execution has been...washy. I thought the set-up was too staged, but it actually fooled some fans (“kayfabe is dead!”), but the clips I’ve seen after that haven’t gotten me excited, per se. But even if it’s bad in execution, I don’t think the concept itself is bad.


Do you know American football? He’s a punter. “Athlete” is a bit of a stretch. Him getting offense and acting unafraid of Adam Cole is nearly (key word) aa bad as OC and Jericho.

Outside athletes good, especially football players, but they have to be REAL football players, not a fucking punter. Lmao


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Do you know American football? He’s a punter. “Athlete” is a bit of a stretch. Him getting offense and acting unafraid of Adam Cole is nearly (key word) aa bad as OC and Jericho.
> 
> Outside athletes good, especially football players, but they have to be REAL football players, not a fucking punter. Lmao


Are you saying that anyone can be a punter in the NFL? Joking aside, I get that punter isn’t the most respected position or whatever, but I’m pretty sure Pat McAfee counts as an athlete, lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Yeah the punters still have to do all the workouts, training drills etc. Plus, obviously would be working on leg strength in the gym and probably their whole body because sometimes they make tackles also.

Definitely an athlete.


----------



## bdon

He is definitely in shape and one of the best “boots” in punting history. It’s a football thing. No punter is viewed as a “real” football player and certainly not tough. No football player is worried about pissing off a punter for instance.

But yes, jokes aside, he definitely is in better physical condition that an Adam Cole.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Yeah, I have to side with bdon here; Pat McAfee was never a big deal during his playing career. I've followed football closely my whole life, trust me on this.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> Yeah, I have to side with bdon here; Pat McAfee was never a big deal during his playing career. I've followed football closely my whole life, trust me on this.


It honestly reeks of counter-booking Orange Cassidy and Jericho as McAfee is far more known for his podcasts and comedy these days, which he is a great comedian.

But yeah, no American looks at Adam Cole getting punked out by a punter and thinks to themselves, “That makes sense.” This entire angle makes Adam Cole look A) even smaller than I imagined he was and B) like a weak ass bitch.

In kayfabe terms, the audience has seen Orange Cassidy get busted open and love to fight another day. They have seen him hold his own in a decent match against the unbelievable Pac.

Adam Cole is getting his ass kicked by someone who will avoid contact at all costs, giving up vital yards and a touchdown on big returns, while wearing pads head to toe.

To the American audience, this makes Cole look fucking stupid, small, and weak.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> That's actually hilarious especially since the dislike they get is for the same things but different reasons [emoji23].


they even both have the Superman Punch 

geez, now i’m starting to wonder if this push is just a commentary on management pushing who they want regardless of if half the base hates it / ie> their original plan with the Librarian gimmick

would be a nice bit of meta booking


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> He is definitely in shape and one of the best “boots” in punting history. It’s a football thing. No punter is viewed as a “real” football player and certainly not tough. No football player is worried about pissing off a punter for instance.
> 
> But yes, jokes aside, he definitely is in better physical condition that an Adam Cole.


Ah yes, I'm sure it is a football thing and I'm not disputing that. Still, I wouldn't shit on the concept. He's a 6'1, 233lbs athlete with a good leg. I personally don't really care too much if the position is respected or not. McAfee's presence is really a synthesis of his interest in pro-wrestling and his position as a pundit too. I haven't seen all the details of the feud, but I'm not sure it's being really thumped as a former Colt getting in there so much as it's just that Pat McAfee guy who used to play football and is now a personality. 

I'll judge the match by what it produces. Apparently McAfee used to work out with Rip Rogers, which means he might actually surprise people with some of his fundamentals. I'd like to think they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have some sort of plan for the match.


----------



## bdon

A punter is towering over your longest reigning, former World Heavy Champ.

Don’t pretend that is a good look, bro.


----------



## bdon

Adam Cole is fucking tiny. I don’t want to ever fucking hear another motherfucker on here try and argue that he isn’t. He’s somewhere between Jungle Boy and Orange fucking Cassidy.

McAfee has him by 5-6 inches as he is slouched over, and McAfee doesn’t have a “billed size.”


----------



## One Shed

It is a weird thing. All other sports are moving towards more and more elite, top guys who are breaking records, but wrestling seems to be excusing and welcoming smaller, and less intimidating guys. Some adult somewhere needs to step in and walk the children to other jobs.

It is not like this is Adam Vinatieri who has won Super Bowls and clinch games by being a sharp shooter.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> It is a weird thing. All other sports are moving towards more and more elite, top guys who are breaking records, but wrestling seems to be excusing and welcoming smaller, and less intimidating guys. Some adult somewhere needs to step in and walk the children to other jobs.
> 
> It is not like this is Adam Vinatieri who has won Super Bowls and clinch games by being a sharp shooter.


Do you blame them? Wrestling pays nothing compared to other sports and there’s greater risk of injury.

why do something where you get paid peanuts when you can just go into MMA, where the risks are a lot less and the pay is better.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> Do you blame them? Wrestling pays nothing compared to other sports and there’s greater risk of injury.
> 
> why do something where you get paid peanuts when you can just go into MMA, where the risks are a lot less and the pay is better.


Actually wrestling pays pretty awesome. Moxley for example makes 1.5 million a year from AEW and will probably wrestle around thirty times this year (Only worked 16 thus far). He's making 29k a week when the majority of his week is spent chilling, doing whatever he wants to do and having a good time.

Compare him to some of the strongest athletes here in Australia where nobody is making 1.5 million USD in any of our major codes, are training 3-4 times a week, playing a gruelling 80 minute game and where they have the stress of being dropped if unable to perform.

MMA is great money if you're awesome at it but how many reach that level? The average for the fighters in the UFC is 138 grand a year and I imagine much less for the smaller companies. Out of that 138k you've got your taxes, your fight camps, your training costs etc etc. 

Wrestling doesn't really compare to European football, NFL, MLB, NHL etc where even a middle of the road solid player is sometimes pocketing millions but it's a pretty good deal compared to most sports.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> Do you blame them? Wrestling pays nothing compared to other sports and there’s greater risk of injury.
> 
> why do something where you get paid peanuts when you can just go into MMA, where the risks are a lot less and the pay is better.


But...that makes no sense. In MMA you have weight classes so a tiny bad ass guy can do well there. He would rarely come across in real life as a bad ass, but as a flyweight or strawweight or whatever the lightest MMA weight division is now, that person could make money. They would almost never headline a PPV, but they could do well.

Plenty of large guys who can move well but are not adept at Brazilian jiu-jitsu go into wrestling for that reason. How many legit fighters have ever gone into wrestling? Brock, Ken Shamrock, Steve Blackman, a few others. Not a ton, especially after UFC became a thing. But if you are going into wrestling, at least look the part, no?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> Do you blame them? Wrestling pays nothing compared to other sports and there’s greater risk of injury.
> 
> why do something where you get paid peanuts when you can just go into MMA, where the risks are a lot less and the pay is better.


Thats the biggest problem wrestling has. 52 weeks a year, no offseason, all for $6 million or less (all but, what, Brock/Cena/Roman?). 

That sucks. Why would any great athlete choose wrestling over the NFL/NBA?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Thats the biggest problem wrestling has. 52 weeks a year, no offseason, all for $6 million or less (all but, what, Brock/Cena/Roman?).
> 
> That sucks. Why would any great athlete choose wrestling over the NFL/NBA?


They wouldn't but Daniel Vidot here in Australia chose an opportunity at the WWE roster compared to our national rugby competition here. Vidot was a middle of the road player probably making 200-300k a year and was a solid enough player on the wing.

WWE came knocking because he's a big good looking dude and put him in NXT system where he's been for quite a few years now. For him becoming a middle of the road WWE wrestler would probably pay more than he was making playing rugby plus the opportunity to tour the world and live in the United States.

I get what you're saying to an extent but I guess it depends on the lifestyle you want. Personally I would take living in one major city, travelling once every 2 weeks and an off season over wrestling 4 times a week and living out of a hotel room every day of my life but others would be totally motivated by the whole touring the world, having a party lifestyle and being in a new city every night.


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> Thats the biggest problem wrestling has. 52 weeks a year, no offseason, all for $6 million or less (all but, what, Brock/Cena/Roman?).
> 
> That sucks. Why would any great athlete choose wrestling over the NFL/NBA?


What kind of argument is this? Being an "athlete" does not make one good at every sport. Being an all time NBA star does not make one good at baseball (ask Michael Jordan). How many actual cross over athletes have there been? The list is pretty much Bo Jackson. Name a guy that has been a star in the NFL AND NBA. Are there people out there that believe guys are CHOOSING the NFL or NBA? Like they have open offers for both?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Actually wrestling pays pretty awesome. Moxley for example makes 1.5 million a year from AEW and will probably wrestle around thirty times this year (Only worked 16 thus far). He's making 29k a week when the majority of his week is spent chilling, doing whatever he wants to do and having a good time.
> 
> Compare him to some of the strongest athletes here in Australia where nobody is making 1.5 million USD in any of our major codes, are training 3-4 times a week, playing a gruelling 80 minute game and where they have the stress of being dropped if unable to perform.
> 
> MMA is great money if you're awesome at it but how many reach that level? The average for the fighters in the UFC is 138 grand a year and I imagine much less for the smaller companies. Out of that 138k you've got your taxes, your fight camps, your training costs etc etc.
> 
> Wrestling doesn't really compare to European football, NFL, MLB, NHL etc where even a middle of the road solid player is sometimes pocketing millions but it's a pretty good deal compared to most sports.


Not everybody is Mox level though

apples with apples is comparing Jungle Boy to one of the average starters in a team

I know RugbyUnion pays a lot more than that


----------



## bdon

There are more NBA jobs than men’s WWE and AEW jobs. There are about as many NFL jobs over 4 teams than all of the WWE.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Not everybody is Mox level though
> 
> apples with apples is comparing Jungle Boy to one of the average starters in a team
> 
> I know RugbyUnion pays a lot more than that


I'm comparing Moxley with a top end NRL player. I think our highest paid player is on 1.2 million AUD a year which is 865,000 USD. Apparently in Rugby Union South Africa's Handre Pollard is the highest paid player on 1 million pounds a year which is 1.3 million USD. Not a bad living but if you take Moxley's base wage, merchandising etc he's probably better off by a few hundred thousand.

Middle of the road player in the NFL who starts but isn't spectacular Vs Jungle Boy is a no contest though. I'd be surprised if Jungle Boy was on over 100k a year.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Do you blame them? Wrestling pays nothing compared to other sports and there’s greater risk of injury.
> 
> why do something where you get paid peanuts when you can just go into MMA, where the risks are a lot less and the pay is better.


Pay in MMA isn't better at all lol. Especially when you factor in chances to earn, camp fees, and that most organizations do pay based on showing up and winning?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Actually wrestling pays pretty awesome. Moxley for example makes 1.5 million a year from AEW and will probably wrestle around thirty times this year (Only worked 16 thus far). He's making 29k a week when the majority of his week is spent chilling, doing whatever he wants to do and having a good time.
> 
> Compare him to some of the strongest athletes here in Australia where nobody is making 1.5 million USD in any of our major codes, are training 3-4 times a week, playing a gruelling 80 minute game and where they have the stress of being dropped if unable to perform.
> 
> MMA is great money if you're awesome at it but how many reach that level? The average for the fighters in the UFC is 138 grand a year and I imagine much less for the smaller companies. Out of that 138k you've got your taxes, your fight camps, your training costs etc etc.
> 
> Wrestling doesn't really compare to European football, NFL, MLB, NHL etc where even a middle of the road solid player is sometimes pocketing millions but it's a pretty good deal compared to most sports.


Moxley is a great example but an anomaly. The majority of wrestlers, even those on payroll get paid peanuts. Their travel is not paid for and nor is their hotel.

Unlike real sports, wrestlers are very limited when it comes to endorsements. If you’re a real athlete and you make it to the equivalent of Moxleys level in AEW or Reigns level in WWE, you’re open to anything from Adidas to fucking Burger King lol.

I don’t think the Australia example is accurate or realistic, because there’s no equivalent wrestling league in Australia. Lets stick to comparisons between American companies.

If you think as well, MMAs level of risk is 1000x less than Pro-Wrestling. You can have maybe 3 matches a year if you wish; if you win all of those matches you’re likely going to earn the equivalent of someone on the indie scene who has to wrestle every few days and travel everywhere to do so. i guess it’s all relative, because MMA fighters need managers, promoters, trainers etc. Whereas your indie guy doesn’t really need any of that.

The peak of pro wrestling, barring the anomaly that is Brock Lesnar, is definitely earning less than the peak of MMA. That’s obvious. Prior to Covid, Reigns was wrestling several times a month. Khabib fought how many matches last year?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Pay will never get where it should be without a wrestlers union. But that will never work with multiple companies. So it will never get better.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> But...that makes no sense. In MMA you have weight classes so a tiny bad ass guy can do well there. He would rarely come across in real life as a bad ass, but as a flyweight or strawweight or whatever the lightest MMA weight division is now, that person could make money. They would almost never headline a PPV, but they could do well.
> 
> Plenty of large guys who can move well but are not adept at Brazilian jiu-jitsu go into wrestling for that reason. How many legit fighters have ever gone into wrestling? Brock, Ken Shamrock, Steve Blackman, a few others. Not a ton, especially after UFC became a thing. But if you are going into wrestling, at least look the part, no?


yeah that's true. but the small guys that wish to be pro-wrestlers are nerds. most big guys end up trying their hand at other sports first. Goldberg, Rock, Reigns, Lesnar etc. all football rejects. 

I do think the history of pro-wrestling has affected the viability for many people as an option. the steroid scandals, CTE, contractor vs employee etc. with the internet, people are a lot more clued up about the goings on behind the scenes. if I was 6'5, would i pick pro-wrestling? hell nah lol. would you?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm comparing Moxley with a top end NRL player. I think our highest paid player is on 1.2 million AUD a year which is 865,000 USD. Apparently in Rugby Union South Africa's Handre Pollard is the highest paid player on 1 million pounds a year which is 1.3 million USD. Not a bad living but if you take Moxley's base wage, merchandising etc he's probably better off by a few hundred thousand.
> 
> Middle of the road player in the NFL who starts but isn't spectacular Vs Jungle Boy is a no contest though. I'd be surprised if Jungle Boy was on over 100k a year.


that is why they move to the UK, FR and Japan to play

you play in ZA for pride, in UK, FR or Japan for cash 

(you can double contract - so a UK loop and then a Japan loop)

I think I heard the dual role guys go from 45k - 70k p/annum - but travel, medical is covered because of the dual roles. Like Cutler, Leva - those types

So yeah - JB is most likely on 100k ish


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> yeah that's true. but the small guys that wish to be pro-wrestlers are nerds. most big guys end up trying their hand at other sports first. Goldberg, Rock, Reigns, Lesnar etc. all football rejects.
> 
> I do think the history of pro-wrestling has affected the viability for many people as an option. the steroid scandals, CTE, contractor vs employee etc. with the internet, people are a lot more clued up about the goings on behind the scenes. if I was 6'5, would i pick pro-wrestling? hell nah lol. would you?


Well, I am not 6'5, but I am 6'4 and did not pick pro wrestling. I think you are right that CTE especially (but the other things you mention certainly are factors too) keeps many people out. That is also true of MMA and football too especially. Look at someone like Calvin Johnson. I name him specifically because I went to school with him (same as Roman Reigns), know both of his parents are doctors, and he knew a long career in the NFL would be bad for him so he made his money and got out. Smart guy. That is one reason why I hate so many guys do unnecessary moves in free matches especially in AEW today. They also have blanket bans that make no sense either. You CAN take protected shots to the head when both people know that they are doing. You can also do piledrivers and moves like that if you are a pro, but green guys and newbies should not be doing them. Also, Jelly's existence should be a huge reason never to do anything heh.

I am not sure that contractor vs employee is that big a factor at the highest levels. If you are paid as a main eventer, things like insurance are not a huge issue. But for sure at the beginning stages in the US that is a huge issue. So it definitely could affect guys getting into it initially. Being able to stay on your parents' insurance until 26 might help guys today try different things out though.

I still think wrestling is a different enough skill set from MMA or other sports that it does not imply people who go into it failed at something else. Most NFL players would suck in the NBA, MLB, etc. That does not mean they suck. I get your point a lot of guys who went into wrestling were not good enough to be in the NFL and that is true. But I see the NFL at the end of the day as being way more lucrative to them as the reason why they wanted to go there. It is not like the NFL is safer than wrestling. There is just more money if you are a top guy there. Even the punter makes more money than your average wrestler. If wrestling was the top money maker for athletes, you would have failed wrestlers going into the NFL, right? It is just about where the money is at the end of the day for that set of people.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> Well, I am not 6'5, but I am 6'4 and did not pick pro wrestling. I think you are right that CTE especially (but the other things you mention certainly are factors too) keeps many people out. That is also true of MMA and football too especially. Look at someone like Calvin Johnson. I name him specifically because I went to school with him (same as Roman Reigns), know both of his parents are doctors, and he knew a long career in the NFL would be bad for him so he made his money and got out. Smart guy. That is one reason why I hate so many guys do unnecessary moves in free matches especially in AEW today. They also have blanket bans that make no sense either. You CAN take protected shots to the head when both people know that they are doing. You can also do piledrivers and moves like that if you are a pro, but green guys and newbies should not be doing them. Also, Jelly's existence should be a huge reason never to do anything heh.
> 
> I am not sure that contractor vs employee is that big a factor at the highest levels. If you are paid as a main eventer, things like insurance are not a huge issue. But for sure at the beginning stages in the US that is a huge issue. So it definitely could affect guys getting into it initially. Being able to stay on your parents' insurance until 26 might help guys today try different things out though.
> 
> I still think wrestling is a different enough skill set from MMA or other sports that it does not imply people who go into it failed at something else. Most NFL players would suck in the NBA, MLB, etc. That does not mean they suck. I get your point a lot of guys who went into wrestling were not good enough to be in the NFL and that is true. But I see the NFL at the end of the day as being way more lucrative to them as the reason why they wanted to go there. It is not like the NFL is safer than wrestling. There is just more money if you are a top guy there. Even the punter makes more money than your average wrestler. If wrestling was the top money maker for athletes, you would have failed wrestlers going into the NFL, right? It is just about where the money is at the end of the day for that set of people.


you a tall MF huh 😝

yeah i think your post is a perfect summary of why we are getting losers and not the cream of the crop. Something needs to change. A union would stamp out the pay issues and a regulatory body overlooking pro-wrestling will help stamp out the unnecessary risks. I also think WWE/AEW should allow wrestlers to become ambassadors for brands. More money and visibility for the wrestler and pro-wrestling overall. In fact, I think that could help bring in the missing stallions.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> *Well, I am not 6'5, but I am 6'4 and did not pick pro wrestling.* I think you are right that CTE especially (but the other things you mention certainly are factors too) keeps many people out. That is also true of MMA and football too especially. Look at someone like Calvin Johnson. I name him specifically because I went to school with him (same as Roman Reigns), know both of his parents are doctors, and he knew a long career in the NFL would be bad for him so he made his money and got out. Smart guy. That is one reason why I hate so many guys do unnecessary moves in free matches especially in AEW today. They also have blanket bans that make no sense either. You CAN take protected shots to the head when both people know that they are doing. You can also do piledrivers and moves like that if you are a pro, but green guys and newbies should not be doing them. Also, Jelly's existence should be a huge reason never to do anything heh.
> 
> I am not sure that contractor vs employee is that big a factor at the highest levels. If you are paid as a main eventer, things like insurance are not a huge issue. But for sure at the beginning stages in the US that is a huge issue. So it definitely could affect guys getting into it initially. Being able to stay on your parents' insurance until 26 might help guys today try different things out though.
> 
> I still think wrestling is a different enough skill set from MMA or other sports that it does not imply people who go into it failed at something else. Most NFL players would suck in the NBA, MLB, etc. That does not mean they suck. I get your point a lot of guys who went into wrestling were not good enough to be in the NFL and that is true. But I see the NFL at the end of the day as being way more lucrative to them as the reason why they wanted to go there. It is not like the NFL is safer than wrestling. There is just more money if you are a top guy there. Even the punter makes more money than your average wrestler. If wrestling was the top money maker for athletes, you would have failed wrestlers going into the NFL, right? It is just about where the money is at the end of the day for that set of people.


economy flights must be fun


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> economy flights must be fun


Fortunately I travel enough for work (before COVID obviously) that I get upgraded about 80% of the time, but yes, when I have to go on a long flight or anytime I am on something like a CRJ it sucks big time. Give me the bulkhead seat or emergency exit seat any time. My coworkers are amazed (possibly horrified) at how anal I am about checking the app until I get the seat I want heh.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> you a tall MF huh 😝
> 
> yeah i think your post is a perfect summary of why we are getting losers and not the cream of the crop. Something needs to change. A union would stamp out the pay issues and a regulatory body overlooking pro-wrestling will help stamp out the unnecessary risks. I also think WWE/AEW should allow wrestlers to become ambassadors for brands. More money and visibility for the wrestler and pro-wrestling overall. In fact, I think that could help bring in the missing stallions.


Yeah, I am tall. My wife is 4'11 so it makes for extra fun 

For those who really want to know, my name is a take on the character Lurch from the Addams Family. The tall, quiet one. Pronounced the name way. In French class in Middle School, I had to come up with a nickname, so I made a French version of Lurch, hence L'heurch. Just no apostrophe in user names.

I am not sure a union is the answer here. Wrestling has been highly successful and competitive with other sports in the past without one. Unions kill productivity in a lot of sectors. They also make it harder to get rid of someone who sucks. But, I am not in any way defending the current independent contractor setup either. There definitely needs to be some kind of change, I just do not think it is a complete swing in the other direction. It could make wrestling just not worth someone starting a business for. More money in the industry might be good though. As much as WWE sucks now, Vince has shown it can be a huge money maker. Passing that money making ability down to the talent would certainly attract better athletes. Hiring guys like Marko and Jelly when there already are better talent out there makes a business owner look silly though.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Per WrestlingInc, the Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy match in the final quarter gained 44,000 viewers to make it the fourth best quarter of the night.

Suck it, haters.


----------



## One Shed

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Per WrestlingInc, the Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy match in the final quarter gained 44,000 viewers to make it the fourth best quarter of the night.
> 
> Suck it, haters.


Your so called main event did 4/8 in overall viewers and 7/8 in the precious demo. The failed experiment in goofiness needs to end now. RnR Express and Arn/Tully were the draw of the night in both total viewers and the demo. A lot of people clicked off after that high point. But do not let facts get in the way of the narrative/spin.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Lheurch said:


> Your so called main event did 4/8 in overall viewers and 7/8 in the precious demo. The failed experiment in goofiness needs to end now. RnR Express and Arn/Tully were the draw of the night in both total viewers and the demo. A lot of people clicked off after that high point. But do not let facts get in the way of the narrative/spin.


We may as well just say 7/8, because as we've learned these past months, the overall viewership doesn't matter.


----------



## One Shed

El Hammerstone said:


> We may as well just say 7/8, because as we've learned these past months, the overall viewership doesn't matter.


But it was the 7th highest viewed segment! SUCCESS!


----------



## RiverFenix

> Q7: 739,000 (-123,000), 384,000 in 18-49 (-77,000) - Chris Jericho - Mike Chioda segment, Hikaru Shida vs. Heather Monroe





> Q7: 637,000 (+28,000), 220,000 in 18-49. (+29,000) - The Robert Stone Brand - Rhea Ripley segment, Johnny Gargano - Candice LeRae home video, Timothy Thatcher training session


So Shida Squash lost 123K !! and NXT only gained 28K, so 95,000 people flipped to something other than NXT. That is a shitload of people to lose in one segment.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> So Shida Squash lost 123K !! and NXT only gained 28K, so 95,000 people flipped to something other than NXT. That is a shitload of people to lose in one segment.


Women wrestling = draw XD


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I've noticed women's matches generally do quite well on the independent level in terms of views. Wonder what AEW is doing wrong that 123k people tune out.


----------



## Pippen94

Crushing win in head to head with double the demo for aew. USA must be close to canceling it's Wednesday night wrestling show


----------



## Cult03

Anyone else curious about how many international viewers there are for Dynamite, NXT, Raw and SD? I feel like only using American viewers in 2020 is arbitrary and doesn't tell the full story. It's easily manipulated as well.


----------



## RiverFenix

Well that match was an obvious squash, and the opponent a complete unknown. Not to mention that Shida can't connect with fans all that well given the language barrier and her college try attempts have her so self conscious that she smiles through the promo attempts hoping that being the cutesy face will keep criticisms away or something in a "bless her heart, at least she is trying" sort of way. But AEW markets her as a badass in the ring so there is a disconnect there. 

AEW has yet to put the title on a woman who can connect and carry the division on the mic. Riho to Nyla to Shida now, with Nyla bad enough that they've given her a mouthpiece now in Vickie Guerrero.


----------



## Not Lying

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> So Shida Squash lost 123K !! and NXT only gained 28K, so 95,000 people flipped to something other than NXT. That is a shitload of people to lose in one segment.


Weren't there 2 commercials in that quarter?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> View attachment 90095
> 
> 
> Adam Cole is fucking tiny. I don’t want to ever fucking hear another motherfucker on here try and argue that he isn’t. He’s somewhere between Jungle Boy and Orange fucking Cassidy.
> 
> McAfee has him by 5-6 inches as he is slouched over, and McAfee doesn’t have a “billed size.”


According to Wikipedia, Pat McAfee is 6’1. That doesn’t look like 5 or 6 inches. Come the fuck on, haha.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Crushing win in head to head with double the demo for aew. USA must be close to canceling it's Wednesday night wrestling show


With the ad split, if all things were equal, NXT would be making more money for USA than AEW is for TNT. The WWE also has Raw on USA, which is far more crucial to that network than Dynamite is to TNT. WWE have a lot of bargaining power there.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> With the ad split, if all things were equal, NXT would be making more money for USA than AEW is for TNT. The WWE also has Raw on USA, which is far more crucial to that network than Dynamite is to TNT. WWE have a lot of bargaining power there.


Wwe Wednesday show repels young ppl - once covid passes it'll return to network. Sinking rankings greatly reduce wwe bargaining power, particularly when networks can get aew for less which is starting to beat raw in demos


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Wwe Wednesday show repels young ppl - once covid passes it'll return to network. Sinking rankings greatly reduce wwe bargaining power, particularly when networks can get aew for less which is starting to beat raw in demos


It doesn't repel young people. Do you know what the word "repel" means? Raw is still extremely valuable to the USA Network. Hell, NXT is valuable. It's quite possible that it makes more money for NBC Universal than AEW does for Warner. AEW is not anywhere near Raw, so the cheaper argument is moot. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. AEW would have to do significantly better to justify USA taking the hit on Mondays. And Wednesdays. And losing that relationship with a globally recognised partner.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> It doesn't repel young people. Do you know what the word "repel" means? Raw is still extremely valuable to the USA Network. Hell, NXT is valuable. It's quite possible that it makes more money for NBC Universal than AEW does for Warner. AEW is not anywhere near Raw, so the cheaper argument is moot. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. AEW would have to do significantly better to justify USA taking the hit on Mondays. And Wednesdays. And losing that relationship with a globally recognised partner.


Fair description for a show that a few weeks ago did 6k in 11-17 demo.
The 67th ranked show is of little value to any network - you need to accept reality. USA have canceled higher rating shows. TV is cut throat business - if you insist on pretending you work in field you need to know that. Being a globally recognised partner doesn't mean anything when networks looking to save money. Aew already replaced wwe in Italy.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Aew already replaced wwe in Italy.


And does how many viewers? More than the 6k RAW did in the "11-17 demo"? On a paid service no less? It is what some people say in here, you guys go for every little thing and call it a success. Did you ever cared about Italy? Or TV in Italy? But now AEW replaced WWE on a paid service, this is again a success? And you have to remember in Europe most people dont have paid TV.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> And does how many viewers? More than the 6k RAW did in the "11-17 demo"? On a paid service no less? It is what some people say in here, you guys go for every little thing and call it a success. Did you ever cared about Italy? Or TV in Italy? But now AEW replaced WWE on a paid service, this is again a success? *And you have to remember in Europe most people dont have paid* TV.


Is that a metric you just pulled out of your ass or do you have any facts and statistics to present this to us?


----------



## RiverFenix

Thunderdome concept should spike interest across the brands. WWE is spending a lot of money for a two month set-up. WWE PC atmosphere was terrible - they could never get it right. Thunderdome is at least them recognizing this and trying something bold.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Fair description for a show that a few weeks ago did 6k in 11-17 demo.
> The 67th ranked show is of little value to any network - you need to accept reality. USA have canceled higher rating shows. TV is cut throat business - if you insist on pretending you work in field you need to know that. Being a globally recognised partner doesn't mean anything when networks looking to save money. Aew already replaced wwe in Italy.


I’m going to call out a troll for trolling here. More people need to call you out on this stuff. I’ll reply, but I want to stamp this.

How many people watch on the WWE Network? Was that 6k a legit number or an error? Was it an anomaly? You seem to be bringing it up weeks later for a reason.

The 67th ranked show on Showbuzz _this week_ may very well be of value to a network. Especially since they are chained to the franchise that produces their #1 show and because USA keeps every cent off advertising. Given that NXT probably has better advertising deals in place, given their position with WWE, you can probably be rest assured that with AEW’s split, you can virtually double NXT’s specific demo rating every week. Well, more pointedly, halve AEW’s.

How does NXT do in Hispanic viewers? Black viewers? LGBTQ viewers? Those aren’t recorded on the Showbuzz charts. You might want to go a bit deeper with your analysis before you start making insane statements.

WWE turned down a near bankrupt network in Italy to take a more lucrative deal in a market they don’t really run. You can try and weave that into a narrative if you want. I believe that was already exposed and covered here and even the person who posted it backed away and said “I wasn’t trying to make it sound like AEW won the deal from WWE.” You’re lying. Again.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> Is that a metric you just pulled out of your ass or do you have any facts and statistics to present this to us?


Italy has 10% homes with pay TV, this is from Statista and a statistic from 2019.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> According to Wikipedia, Pat McAfee is 6’1. That doesn’t look like 5 or 6 inches. Come the fuck on, haha.


It absolutely looks like 5-6 inches. McAfee is half a head taller at least and slouching to the side to get the fucking elf in the picture. You come the fuck on, lol


----------



## bdon

NXT won’t get cancelled, because it is a price USA pays to do business with WWE. But that doesn’t mean it is doing well or anything.

Wish people on both sides would stop the spinning. “Demo God!!! Woooo!”, “Adam Cole is NOT tiny!!! Wahh!!!!”, “NXT is doing very good ratings and super valuable to USA!!!”

AEW should be doing better ratings. Jericho should never be in anything less than the #2 ranked segment in total viewers and demos, otherwise, why are you paying him $3m a year if the youth he’s trying to put over has less eyes than the main event talent you’re paying $1m a year? Adam Cole is the same fucking size as Jungle Boy, except he’s a little fatter. NXT is supposed to be the cool, hip brand of the youth, and it is fucking getting waxed weekly. Oh! And Marko Stunt fucking sucks, and OC needs to remain firmly in the undercard, sometimes midcard.

This shit ain’t hard. Speak in truths.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Italy has 10% homes with pay TV, this is from Statista and a statistic from 2019.


thats not europe. That’s 1 country. The UK has approx 45-55% paid to non-paid

Btw wwe have a better service now in Italy with discovery.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Thunderdome concept should spike interest across the brands. WWE is spending a lot of money for a two month set-up. WWE PC atmosphere was terrible - they could never get it right. Thunderdome is at least them recognizing this and trying something bold.


Yes sir, it is. Im a certified AEW mark but I will be tuning into Smackdown for the first time since Riddles debut to see it.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> thats not europe. That’s 1 country. The UK has approx 45-55% paid to non-paid
> 
> Btw wwe have a better service now in Italy with discovery.


I thought UK is also not Europe  JK But you are right UK has a huge paid TV market. But that was not my point at all. Pippen was mentioning WWE lost the spot to WWE in Italy and painted it as success and this without knowing anything. Italy especially is a lousy payTV market, I may have exeggerated with saying Europe is a bad pay TV market. But no one is paying 50+ Euros a month to get Sky sports and then watch AEW if you can either watch it for free or pay much less for the monthly subscription on Fite or wherever you can get it in Europe.


----------



## fabi1982

Oh and btw you see how much WWE cares about NXT, when every show is moved out of the PC to the Thunderdome thing, but NXT has to stay and be the same lame presentation. I would have thought if they really care or are scared to lose the deal, they would have moved it to the Thunderdome as well?!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> I thought UK is also not Europe  JK But you are right UK has a huge paid TV market. But that was not my point at all. Pippen was mentioning WWE lost the spot to WWE in Italy and painted it as success and this without knowing anything. Italy especially is a lousy payTV market, I may have exeggerated with saying Europe is a bad pay TV market. But no one is paying 50+ Euros a month to get Sky sports and then watch AEW if you can either watch it for free or pay much less for the monthly subscription on Fite or wherever you can get it in Europe.


Yeah it’s not a lost spot at all. By that time WWE had finalised the exclusivity contract with discovery. Sky Italy was showing reruns. The blogs skewed it as a lost contract when it wasn’t.


----------



## Chan Hung

So AEW not competing on WED should put NXT easily 900,000 plus this week, right?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chan Hung said:


> So AEW not competing on WED should put NXT easily 900,000 plus this week, right?


You would think, especially with this weeks card being far stronger than last week, 1 million isn't out of the realm of possibilities.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I’m going to call out a troll for trolling here. More people need to call you out on this stuff. I’ll reply, but I want to stamp this.
> 
> How many people watch on the WWE Network? Was that 6k a legit number or an error? Was it an anomaly? You seem to be bringing it up weeks later for a reason.
> 
> The 67th ranked show on Showbuzz _this week_ may very well be of value to a network. Especially since they are chained to the franchise that produces their #1 show and because USA keeps every cent off advertising. Given that NXT probably has better advertising deals in place, given their position with WWE, you can probably be rest assured that with AEW’s split, you can virtually double NXT’s specific demo rating every week. Well, more pointedly, halve AEW’s.
> 
> How does NXT do in Hispanic viewers? Black viewers? LGBTQ viewers? Those aren’t recorded on the Showbuzz charts. You might want to go a bit deeper with your analysis before you start making insane statements.
> 
> WWE turned down a near bankrupt network in Italy to take a more lucrative deal in a market they don’t really run. You can try and weave that into a narrative if you want. I believe that was already exposed and covered here and even the person who posted it backed away and said “I wasn’t trying to make it sound like AEW won the deal from WWE.” You’re lying. Again.


Wwe must be some magic product which does appalling ratings, 67th overall, yet is more lucrative then a top show. Networks chasing ratings & canceling on demos need to learn secret & make more money putting on show with old, low viewship!
Interesting you've rallied against demos & dismissed Nielsen's ranking, but here you are defending low rating show with talk of Hispanic & lgbt groups. We all know you just throw out shit hoping somebody will bite - guess that somebody is me.
Wwe Wednesday show has old audience - older on average than even raw & smackdoen being about 60. Every figure I post is correct. You're questioning official ratings, but no coincidence that figures you think are outliers never show big numbers in young demos


----------



## Pippen94

Chan Hung said:


> So AEW not competing on WED should put NXT easily 900,000 plus this week, right?


800k 0.22


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah it’s not a lost spot at all. By that time WWE had finalised the exclusivity contract with discovery. Sky Italy was showing reruns. The blogs skewed it as a lost contract when it wasn’t.


Get it correct - sky turned down wwe because of low ratings then picked aew


fabi1982 said:


> Oh and btw you see how much WWE cares about NXT, when every show is moved out of the PC to the Thunderdome thing, but NXT has to stay and be the same lame presentation. I would have thought if they really care or are scared to lose the deal, they would have moved it to the Thunderdome as well?!


Because main shows are tanking & Wednesday show doesn't make money.


----------



## RainmakerV2

MMA pay is pretty doo doo unless you're at the elite UFC level. Thats why the HW division always sucks so bad. 6'2 230 pound athletes aint doing that shit lol.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Wwe must be some magic product which does appalling ratings, 67th overall, yet is more lucrative then a top show. Networks chasing ratings & canceling on demos need to learn secret & make more money putting on show with old, low viewship!
> Interesting you've rallied against demos & dismissed Nielsen's ranking, but here you are defending low rating show with talk of Hispanic & lgbt groups. We all know you just throw out shit hoping somebody will bite - guess that somebody is me.
> Wwe Wednesday show has old audience - older on average than even raw & smackdoen being about 60. Every figure I post is correct. You're questioning official ratings, but no coincidence that figures you think are outliers never show big numbers in young demos


There is no content in this post. It has completely ignored my valid criticisms of your position. Your “67th” is based off a Showbuzz chart that I have challenged time and time again. I’m bringing up those demos because they would be more important with advertisers than an arbitrary age grouping. Where are those numbers reported? Because I guarantee advertisers get them. 



Pippen94 said:


> Get it correct - sky turned down wwe because of low ratings then picked aew
> 
> Because main shows are tanking & Wednesday show doesn't make money.


The first part is a lie. If the main shows are “tanking” then AEW has flatlined. What do you mean the Wednesday show doesn’t make money? It seems to be have better advertisers than AEW, and it sends all its revenue to the network.


----------



## Prosper

Cult03 said:


> Anyone else curious about how many international viewers there are for Dynamite, NXT, Raw and SD? I feel like only using American viewers in 2020 is arbitrary and doesn't tell the full story. It's easily manipulated as well.


Not trackable. International metrics are not done through Nielson, but if I knew what streaming sites they were using abroad, I would be able to gauge how much traffic those sites were getting and how many people were illegally watching. What illegal streaming sites are you using in Australia to watch?

With international ratings, most of it is general. WWE in a general sense does well in Latin America, Japan, Canada, etc for example but does terribly in the UK. AEW is doing well in Europe, but probably terrible in the rest of the world. 



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Thunderdome concept should spike interest across the brands. WWE is spending a lot of money for a two month set-up. WWE PC atmosphere was terrible - they could never get it right. Thunderdome is at least them recognizing this and trying something bold.


Thunderdome should be interesting. If it works out, hopefully AEW follows the same route. Looks like its somewhat working out for the NBA.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict 871 k/ .32 demo for NXT tonight.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> There is no content in this post. It has completely ignored my valid criticisms of your position. Your “67th” is based off a Showbuzz chart that I have challenged time and time again. I’m bringing up those demos because they would be more important with advertisers than an arbitrary age grouping. Where are those numbers reported? Because I guarantee advertisers get them.
> 
> 
> 
> The first part is a lie. If the main shows are “tanking” then AEW has flatlined. What do you mean the Wednesday show doesn’t make money? It seems to be have better advertisers than AEW, and it sends all its revenue to the network.


It's acknowledged that advertisers seek younger viewers. This is first time I've heard how lucrative over 50's gay Latino demo is - that's internet forums for you!
Wwe ratings have dropped greatly since signing of TV contracts. Fact like aew company needed to run shows during pandemic says everything about it's security & bargaining power with network - so much for being an established global partner or whatever you said


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Pippen94 said:


> It's acknowledged that advertisers seek younger viewers. This is first time I've heard how lucrative over 50's gay Latino demo is - that's internet forums for you!
> Wwe ratings have dropped greatly since signing of TV contracts. Fact like aew company needed to run shows during pandemic says everything about it's security & bargaining power with network - so much for being an established global partner or whatever you said


He doesn't get it. Even his hero The Rock claimed #1 for 12 weeks in a row with Titan Games BASED ON THE DEMO. Showbuzz ranks BASED ON THE DEMO. Anyone that knows anything about television knows that you SHOOT FOR THE DEMO.

I don't know why he cares so much, AEW has a long ways to go to catch Raws 18-49. They got a .52 the first hour this week against the playoff debut/monster demo of Luka Doncic + the first night of the DNC.

He shouldn't have to be this desperate.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> @The Wood, are you still fucking crying that Nielsen is somehow cheating for goddamn AEW!?


You’ve been doing some real low-quality posting recently. Is everything okay? No one is claiming any sort of “cheating.” I’m just saying that a lot of the posters on here don’t really understand what they’re tlsiing



Pippen94 said:


> It's acknowledged that advertisers seek younger viewers. This is first time I've heard how lucrative over 50's gay Latino demo is - that's internet forums for you!
> Wwe ratings have dropped greatly since signing of TV contracts. Fact like aew company needed to run shows during pandemic says everything about it's security & bargaining power with network - so much for being an established global partner or whatever you said


No one said that. Holy shit, can you have one conversation without going into complete straw-man raving? More fucking trolling. I don’t normally call for people to get banned, but this is approaching Garty levels.

Wtf even if your pandemic point? That makes zero sense. Often your posts don’t, but how can anyone even decipher that



TKO Wrestling said:


> He doesn't get it. Even his hero The Rock claimed #1 for 12 weeks in a row with Titan Games BASED ON THE DEMO. Showbuzz ranks BASED ON THE DEMO. Anyone that knows anything about television knows that you SHOOT FOR THE DEMO.
> 
> I don't know why he cares so much, AEW has a long ways to go to catch Raws 18-49. They got a .52 the first hour this week against the playoff debut/monster demo of Luka Doncic + the first night of the DNC.
> 
> He shouldn't have to be this desperate.


Lol, The Rock is not my hero. But if I did want a hero, you could do far worse. Nice insult there. “You like The Rock!” Cool.

Yep, advertisers go by Showbuzz. Big difference between wanting younger viewers and understanding the best ways to market to them.

Has this board been drinking from the same tainted water supply lately or something? If it’s black, send it back, guys.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> You’ve been doing some real low-quality posting recently. Is everything okay? No one is claiming any sort of “cheating.” I’m just saying that a lot of the posters on here don’t really understand what they’re tlsiing
> 
> 
> 
> No one said that. Holy shit, can you have one conversation without going into complete straw-man raving? More fucking trolling. I don’t normally call for people to get banned, but this is approaching Garty levels.
> 
> Wtf even if your pandemic point? That makes zero sense. Often your posts don’t, but how can anyone even decipher that
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, The Rock is not my hero. But if I did want a hero, you could do far worse. Nice insult there. “You like The Rock!” Cool.
> 
> Yep, advertisers go by Showbuzz. Big difference between wanting younger viewers and understanding the best ways to market to them.
> 
> Has this board been drinking from the same tainted water supply lately or something? If it’s black, send it back, guys.


You’ve been back on that dumb shit.

The Rock claimed #1 show on Monday’s based on the demo, but I don’t see your ass crying about that. Why not? Because you’re fucking emotional about it and will go out of your way to dispel any fucking thing AEW does. Tell us again how NXT has likely been beating AEW in the ratings since the premieres. 

The show numbers are the show numbers. We can debate and argue the quality or whatever, but the numbers and demos are what they are.


----------



## bdon

You’re just so easily fucking offended at the thought that AEW is consistently kicking NXT’s ass in the ratings, relative to the lower numbers.

You jumping into whine and bitch every time someone brings up the numbers, sparking a 6 page back and forth is as bad as the “AEW can do no wrong” crowds that refuse to discuss and acknowledge when @Cult03, @Chip Chipperson, and the like go out of their way to applaud the show.


----------



## Danielallen1410

I thought the wood left? Back ruining threads again FFS


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> Not trackable. International metrics are not done through Nielson, but if I knew what streaming sites they were using abroad, I would be able to gauge how much traffic those sites were getting and how many people were illegally watching. What illegal streaming sites are you using in Australia to watch?
> 
> With international ratings, most of it is general. WWE in a general sense does well in Latin America, Japan, Canada, etc for example but does terribly in the UK. AEW is doing well in Europe, but probably terrible in the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Thunderdome should be interesting. If it works out, hopefully AEW follows the same route. Looks like its somewhat working out for the NBA.


I didn't say anything about illegal streaming. NXT is shown live in Australia on Foxtel and I'm sure is shown live in other countries, AEW is too isn't it? But here. I'm just saying the American viewers aren't the only ones that matter anymore, so judging a show based on strictly that seems arbitrary. I'm on record as saying I don't think ratings matter in regards to whether a show is enjoyable for myself or not but I daresay NXT would murder AEW on international viewers.


----------



## Prosper

Cult03 said:


> I didn't say anything about illegal streaming. NXT is shown live in Australia on Foxtel and I'm sure is shown live in other countries, AEW is too isn't it? But here. I'm just saying the American viewers aren't the only ones that matter anymore, so judging a show based on strictly that seems arbitrary. I'm on record as saying I don't think ratings matter in regards to whether a show is enjoyable for myself or not but I daresay *NXT would murder AEW on international viewers.*


Of course they would. They have been around for 10 years and they are a WWE product that is promoted almost as much as RAW/SD. They even have NXT UK, which is it's own show. AEW only has Dynamite and they are a year old. NXT being bigger overseas is not a far off thing to believe. 

Not sure about where AEW is shown outside of the U.S. honestly. I just know that its doing fairly well in Europe.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> Of course they would. They have been around for 10 years and they are a WWE product that is promoted almost as much as RAW/SD. They even have NXT UK, which is it's own show. AEW only has Dynamite and they are a year old. NXT being bigger overseas is not a far off thing to believe.
> 
> Not sure about where AEW is shown outside of the U.S. honestly. I just know that its doing fairly well in Europe.


So why is it rarely taken into account? All we see in here is ways to spin how AEW is more popular. But that's only including American fans. Just because this viewership doesn't let AEW win in a new and unimportant way like the demos doesn't mean it shouldn't count. I say we start worrying about international audiences more than how many Americans watch.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> So why is it rarely taken into account? All we see in here is ways to spin how AEW is more popular. But that's only including American fans. Just because this viewership doesn't let AEW win in a new and unimportant way like the demos doesn't mean it shouldn't count. I say we start worrying about international audiences more than how many Americans watch.


You better believe if AEW was winning in women 12-24 in Bangladesh we would be hearing all about it.


----------



## Prosper

Cult03 said:


> So why is it rarely taken into account? All we see in here is ways to spin how AEW is more popular. But that's only including American fans. Just because this viewership doesn't let AEW win in a new and unimportant way like the demos doesn't mean it shouldn't count. I say we start worrying about international audiences more than how many Americans watch.


This is why I say over and over again that most ratings talk is meaningless outside of the discussion of who is over or becoming a star in real time. We don't have the full picture and we never will. More than half of AEW and WWE's audience is watching online but nobody cares about that either. International numbers are not taken into account on here because the numbers are not known or tracked, and people can't use them in their arguments when they try to find metric support for their opinions as to who they are a fan of or not. 

But at the end of the day, that guy that supposedly chased off cable viewers could possibly have had the highest numbers of the night when including streaming. As far as the networks, they have no stake in these ratings debates and only care to pursue viewership numbers in their territory, as that is where they make their ad money. 

Most of the praise for AEW here, though meaningless in its own way, is just loyalty and happiness in seeing our team win more and more. The more they win here, the more they eventually win internationally, as we're already seeing in Europe. It's just celebration in real time. That's the way it is for me anyway. A lot of people on here have no idea how this stuff even works. So any wins over WWE in the demo or viewership is seen as a good thing, domestically or internationally, especially for a company so new. 

There's also the "little guy vs big guy" thing that is hard not to get behind for a lot of people, which is why underdog situations or man vs authority stories always get over.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I remember being at the club and seeing NXT airing on a little TV near the bar, bringing it up in this thread and nobody caring about it. Meanwhile if it was AEW airing in some regional RSL club here in Australia it'd be a huge deal.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I remember being at the club and seeing NXT airing on a little TV near the bar, bringing it up in this thread and nobody caring about it. Meanwhile if it was AEW airing in some regional RSL club here in Australia it'd be a huge deal.


That's because WWE is already established and you can expect that from a company that has been around for 30+ years with NXT being around for 10. AEW is new & up and coming. 

Back when NXT first started, or TNA, I am sure their loyal day one fans were happy for their growth as well.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> So why is it rarely taken into account? All we see in here is ways to spin how AEW is more popular. But that's only including American fans. Just because this viewership doesn't let AEW win in a new and unimportant way like the demos doesn't mean it shouldn't count. I say we start worrying about international audiences more than how many Americans watch.


So, international reach matters more now, huh?

How many of those international audiences are watching on the shows primary paying channel, the USA network?

If no one in the US watches Raw tomorrow, and they’re still doing 20 million people watching in other countries, guess what? USA is cancelling the show.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> So, international reach matters more now, huh?
> 
> How many of those international audiences are watching on the shows primary paying channel, the USA network?
> 
> If no one in the US watches Raw tomorrow, and they’re still doing 20 million people watching in other countries, guess what? USA is cancelling the show.


Obviously I still don't think ratings matter to anyone other than the networks. It's bullshit for us to even discuss it like it means one show is better than the other. International reach should matter, if 18-49 matters this week who is to say international reach won't next week? A lot of this forum is from elsewhere, so why not discuss it? You're starting to sound emotional again.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> Obviously I still don't think ratings matter to anyone other than the networks. It's bullshit for us to even discuss it like it means one show is better than the other. International reach should matter, if 18-49 matters this week who is to say international reach won't next week? A lot of this forum is from elsewhere, so why not discuss it? You're starting to sound emotional again.


Ohh. You’re just mocking those arguing in favor of demos, knowing they’d champion that if the shoe fit them?

Nevermind my comment then. I thought you were seriously trying to argue NXT’s international reach mattered more to the tv execs.

My apologies.


----------



## bdon

As far as emotional goes, @Cult03 , I’m still the one arguing in logical terms. You and @The Wood are back to over exaggerating your positions to try and combat the overly optimistic ones.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> You’ve been doing some real low-quality posting recently. Is everything okay? No one is claiming any sort of “cheating.” I’m just saying that a lot of the posters on here don’t really understand what they’re tlsiing
> 
> 
> 
> No one said that. Holy shit, can you have one conversation without going into complete straw-man raving? More fucking trolling. I don’t normally call for people to get banned, but this is approaching Garty levels.
> 
> Wtf even if your pandemic point? That makes zero sense. Often your posts don’t, but how can anyone even decipher that
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, The Rock is not my hero. But if I did want a hero, you could do far worse. Nice insult there. “You like The Rock!” Cool.
> 
> Yep, advertisers go by Showbuzz. Big difference between wanting younger viewers and understanding the best ways to market to them.
> 
> Has this board been drinking from the same tainted water supply lately or something? If it’s black, send it back, guys.


Is it like impossible for you to concede defeat and grow as a poster?


----------



## bdon

It is amazing watching shit from above the fray, calling it down the middle, and catching hell from both sides of the divide. I’m a hater on one end, and I’m “emotional” on the other end.

People like that don’t want a discussion or to see any other perspective. They want to be right, and they want to hear their own voices.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Ohh. You’re just mocking those arguing in favor of demos, knowing they’d champion that if the shoe fit them?
> 
> Nevermind my comment then. I thought you were seriously trying to argue NXT’s international reach mattered more to the tv execs.
> 
> My apologies.


Wrong again. I am saying judging by US viewers is behind the times and doesn't matter, whilst also putting forth something that I believe should matter more and stating why. I'm not arguing international reach means anything to tv execs, but to us, the people arguing these points from all over the world.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> It is amazing watching shit from above the fray, calling it down the middle, and catching hell from both sides of the divide. I’m a hater on one end, and I’m “emotional” on the other end.
> 
> People like that don’t want a discussion or to see any other perspective. They want to be right, and they want to hear their own voices.


Weird that you'd jump to this conclusion. Just like you jumped to the conclusion that got you to this conclusion.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> You’ve been back on that dumb shit.
> 
> The Rock claimed #1 show on Monday’s based on the demo, but I don’t see your ass crying about that. Why not? Because you’re fucking emotional about it and will go out of your way to dispel any fucking thing AEW does. *Tell us again how NXT has likely been beating AEW in the ratings since the premieres.*
> 
> The show numbers are the show numbers. We can debate and argue the quality or whatever, but the numbers and demos are what they are.


If The Rock is claiming to be the #1 show based on the demo (I haven't seen him actually do this, but it's possible), then that's bullshit too. It's the same across the board, bdon. No one lives and dies by this shit anymore. 

The part in bold: I've got no actual clue what you mean by this. Is this you still mad (emotional?) about the 10% thing? Because that's how those things work, bdon. 

Numbers can be manipulated and twisted. Meaning can be applied in different ways. Everybody knows this about numbers. That's a cheap little tactic to try and make it sound like you're speaking in facts when you're really not saying anything important right now.



bdon said:


> You’re just so easily fucking offended at the thought that AEW is consistently kicking NXT’s ass in the ratings, relative to the lower numbers.
> 
> You jumping into whine and bitch every time someone brings up the numbers, sparking a 6 page back and forth is as bad as the “AEW can do no wrong” crowds that refuse to discuss and acknowledge when @Cult03, @Chip Chipperson, and the like go out of their way to applaud the show.


I jump in because people misrepresent the numbers and what they mean. It'd be nice if you could make an actual argument instead of joining in with the crowd that whinges about the alleged whinging. Get some content, man. 



bdon said:


> So, international reach matters more now, huh?
> 
> How many of those international audiences are watching on the shows primary paying channel, the USA network?
> 
> If no one in the US watches Raw tomorrow, and they’re still doing 20 million people watching in other countries, guess what? USA is cancelling the show.


He didn't say international reach matters more, pippen. If we're judging by the USA Network versus TNT, which I think is totally fine for one facet of the conversation, then we need to know how much revenue each show makes for their respective network. With USA getting 100% of the ad revenue versus TNT getting only 50%, do you agree or disagree that NXT could be more valuable to the USA Network than Dynamite is to TNT? 

International reach matters in terms of the WWE's commitment to the shows, how much money they make their respective promotions and their overall global popularity, which is going to factor into sponsors and the relationships certain properties are going to want to strike up. They're two separate discussions. 



bdon said:


> As far as emotional goes, @Cult03 , I’m still the one arguing in logical terms. You and @The Wood are back to over exaggerating your positions to try and combat the overly optimistic ones.


Hahaha, always be careful of someone who describes themselves as "logical" and others as "emotional." Emotion informs reason, bdon. It's fine to be "emotional" about something you want to discuss. And I don't think you are as logical as you think you are. 



bdon said:


> It is amazing watching shit from above the fray, calling it down the middle, and catching hell from both sides of the divide. I’m a hater on one end, and I’m “emotional” on the other end.
> 
> People like that don’t want a discussion or to see any other perspective. They want to be right, and they want to hear their own voices.


Insert a giant eye-roll. Are you done hearing yourself, bdon?


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW gets September 2nd all to themselves as NXT is preempted on FS1 by the NHL playoffs. It's a bit of a coup as that is their go-home show before ALL OUT.


----------



## BigCy

I'm predicting a 0.0 rating for yesterdays Dynamite. TNT ain't gonna like this one bit.


----------



## Prosper

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW gets September 2nd all to themselves as NXT is preempted on FS1 by the NHL playoffs. It's a bit of a coup as that is their go-home show before ALL OUT.


Are they? Nice, now we get to see how both go home shows do on cable without competition. Today we should have NXT's go home show ratings from last night.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## The Wood

From an international perspective, the US is a joke in how it’s handled the virus. This doesn’t seem like a good look. More greedy millionaires trying to shove business back to the way it was.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> From an international perspective, the US is a joke in how it’s handled the virus. This doesn’t seem like a good look. More greedy millionaires trying to shove business back to the way it was.


You sound surprised.

anyway I still think the Thunderdome is a better concept for Covid era. It’s going to be more acceptable, even if it’s all fake fans.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> You sound surprised.
> 
> anyway I still think the Thunderdome is a better concept for Covid era. It’s going to be more acceptable, even if it’s all fake fans.


Ha, not surprised at all. And I won’t be when fans try to spin AEW’s fan involvement into a babyface move and WWE doing the same thing into a heel one. Glad to see you’re not doing that.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT did a .24 in 18-49 with no wrestling competition, cancel that dog shit.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NXT did a .24 in 18-49 with no wrestling competition, cancel that dog shit.


You got quarter by quarters?


----------



## The Wood

I predicted 850k for NXT (well said they want to get at least that). They landed basically right on that. Far from a runaway moment of glory, but a fine rating and pretty expected. The hardcores and 200k floaters. These are the audiences, folks.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> You got quarter by quarters?


Nah, hopefully tonight in the observer.

Essentially they went way up in 50+, they went up .8 in 18-49, but AEW literally did a .32 in 18-49, so barley any of those people checked out NXT.

Females 12-34 was a .05, literally abysmal.


----------



## The Wood

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Nah, hopefully tonight in the observer.
> 
> Essentially they went way up in 50+, they went up .8 in 18-49, but AEW literally did a .32 in 18-49, so barley any of those people checked out NXT.
> 
> Females 12-34 was a .05, literally abysmal.


This is literally the worst use of “literally” I have ever seen.


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Nah, hopefully tonight in the observer.
> 
> Essentially they went way up in 50+, they went up .8 in 18-49, but AEW literally did a .32 in 18-49, so barley any of those people checked out NXT.
> 
> Females 12-34 was a .05, literally abysmal.


Barely any means 25%? So a 25% pay raise is barely any raise? But they increased 50% compared to last week, literaly nothing.


----------



## Prosper

Just saw they did 853K overall as far as cable viewers. Pretty good. Glad they were able to climb back up going into Takeover XXX. Velveteen Dream probably helped things.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I predicted 850k for NXT (well said they want to get at least that). They landed basically right on that. Far from a runaway moment of glory, but a fine rating and pretty expected. The hardcores and 200k floaters. These are the audiences, folks.


You've been predicting 1.2 million for nxt unopposed


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> Just saw they did 853K overall as far as cable viewers. Pretty good. Glad they were able to climb back up going into Takeover XXX. Velveteen Dream probably helped things.


Actually, it will be interesting to see if he did or didn’t. That will tell a story.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You've been predicting 1.2 million for nxt unopposed


Where the fuck have you pulled that from? Oh, you’ve made it up? Goodo. Go away troll.


----------



## Pippen94

18-34 was about half what aew does - confirms aew simply appeals to more younger people


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Where the fuck have you pulled that from? Oh, you’ve made it up? Goodo. Go away troll.


You wrote this in another topic;
_If NXT were unopposed, they’d get those 300k floaters and their 600k, but they’d probably get a lot more people who watched Dynamite but also liked NXT and just watched it later. It might only be 200k, but it could be even more. It wouldn’t surprise me if NXT ended up at 1.2 million versus AEW’s 900k-1 millions_


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> 18-34 was about half what aew does - confirms aew simply appeals to more younger people


Data analysis complete. No need for any further inquiry into this subject. Flawless logic. Absolutely nothing to critique 


Pippen94 said:


> You wrote this in another topic;
> _It wouldn’t surprise me if NXT ended up at 1.2 million versus AEW’s 900k-1 millions_


That wasn’t week one of being unopposed, you liar. That was overall potential audiences. For someone obsessed with my posts enough to apparently have them memorised and is apparently able to find them, you might like trying to comprehend them sometime.

But then again, you still buy the “AEW is cool with the kids” myth too.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> That wasn’t week one of being unopposed, you liar. That was overall potential audiences. For someone obsessed with my posts enough to apparently have them memorised and is apparently able to find them, you might like trying to comprehend them sometime.


It wasn't - it was blanket statement about dynamite moving.
I predicted 800k 0.22 which wasn't far off but I'll still admit to it


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Data analysis complete. No need for any further inquiry into this subject. Flawless logic. Absolutely nothing to critique
> 
> But then again, you still buy the “AEW is cool with the kids” myth too.


Just look at ratings - I'll let somebody else argue this stupidity with you


----------



## Chan Hung

843,000 is good but overall shit disappointment. I thought least 900,000 since there was no competition from AEW. Oh well!


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> It wasn't - it was blanket statement about dynamite moving.
> I predicted 800k 0.22 which wasn't far off but I'll still admit to it


Don't lie about me, pippen. Lie about yourself to make you feel better. 

It was a statement about the potential audience for each show. My reasoning is that AEW fans will watch anything wrestling whereas NXT fans will not watch AEW. One week of unopposed programming does not provide evidence on way or another. Anyone with any common sense will appreciate that.


----------



## DaSlacker

Is it confirmation the Wednesday night audience is approximately 1 million viewers, with 150,000 being younger AEW casual fans who ignore WWE and 200,000 regular who make the difference in viewership every week.

Saturday Dynamite is the interesting one due to the NBA lead in. A long time ago, but the old NWA WCW/Saturday Night never really did better than the prime time shows like Power Hour and Main Event. That lead in could throw a surprise though - Tony needs to bring his A+ game.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Is it confirmation the Wednesday night audience is approximately 1 million viewers, with 150,000 being younger AEW casual fans who ignore WWE and 200,000 regular who make the difference in viewership every week.
> 
> Saturday Dynamite is the interesting one due to the NBA lead in. A long time ago, but the old NWA WCW/Saturday Night never really did better than the prime time shows like Power Hour and Main Event. That lead in could throw a surprise though - Tony needs to bring his A+ game.


I don't think it confirms anything, honestly. Right now, it's in line with the theory that each show has about 600k hardcore fans and there are about 200k floaters. There seems to be a total of about 1.4 million watching each week. NXT got about 61% of them unopposed. I'm sure they would have loved to have gotten more, but if those people don't come then it might go towards the hypothesis that AEW fans just won't watch NXT. We'll have two different sub-genres of wrestling, each with about 600k viewers. But it's too early to call that a pattern yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Takeover and if they manage to pull the trigger on something good there and if they can ride some momentum with the unopposed weeks they have left.

It'll be interesting to see what AEW does on Saturday night. It's both a hit for them (moving from their regular time-slot) and an opportunity (a chance to appeal to a different audience and mobilise their hardcore fan-base). I expect them to get about 800k. The 600k hardcores that will follow them to the ends of the earth, the 200k floaters and a lead-in "Hey, what the fuck is this?" I don't know what that will be. It could be a huge number of people who were unaware that Dynamite even existed, or it could be <100k.

I think AEW will "beat" NXT. People on the internet will go crazy and celebrate like it's the biggest thing ever because AEW was not in its original slot and "still" won, but it's pretty expected when you're dealing with audiences that small and hardcore. The area of variance is in that 200k+ floating audience. If they go, it will be higher. It might actually be better for AEW if they _don't_ "win," because it means that TNT will be less likely to move them from that established home. But I don't expect Meltzer maths to factor that in.


----------



## rbl85

I thought NXT was going to do more than that since they did nearly 800k (799K ?) not too long ago and it was against AEW.


----------



## ShadowCounter

rbl85 said:


> I thought NXT was going to do more than that since they did nearly 800k (799K ?) not too long ago and it was against AEW.


It was a disappointment. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.


----------



## rbl85

ShadowCounter said:


> It was a disappointment. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.


If it was a regular episode no but this week was the takeover go home show


----------



## Prosper

ShadowCounter said:


> It was a disappointment. Anyone saying otherwise is full of shit.





rbl85 said:


> If it was a regular episode no but this week was the takeover go home show


I was expecting like 950K+, but 853K isn’t too bad. They were in the 600’s recently.


----------



## The Wood

850k was where I cut it off because it’s that 600k number with 250k floaters/extras. NXT got their audience plus the audience that watches whatever they think is more pressing that night. It’s “fine.” It’s not impressive by any measure, but it’s not a “sky is falling” scenario just because they are unopposed. If AEW were on, the numbers would probably be something like AEW - 750k to NXT - 650k or something. Standard issue. 550k AEW fans just didn’t watch.

Raw had a bad week too, by the way. And when Raw has a bad week, other wrestling has a bad week. That’s how things seem to go. Wrestling fans break them up into really separate pieces, but generally the wrestling crowd follows that pattern. As Raw goes, so does the business. I doubt it would have been a hot week for either show, and SmackDown will probably be down too (and no, it doesn’t always go down).


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> Barely any means 25%? So a 25% pay raise is barely any raise? But they increased 50% compared to last week, literaly nothing.


NXT is so trash that literally they could only manage to pull in 50% of what typical Wednesday was pulling. So many people just decided that NXT is dog shit to the point of tuning out entirely and deciding Wednesday night wrestling isn't worth tuning into without AEW.

.48 in total the previous week, to .24 unopposed, NXT is dead programming that should be cancelled soon.

Hopefully USA pulls the trigger on this dead brand soon.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> 850k was where I cut it off because it’s that 600k number with 250k floaters/extras. NXT got their audience plus the audience that watches whatever they think is more pressing that night. It’s “fine.” It’s not impressive by any measure, but it’s not a “sky is falling” scenario just because they are unopposed. If AEW were on, the numbers would probably be something like AEW - 750k to NXT - 650k or something. Standard issue. 550k AEW fans just didn’t watch.
> 
> Raw had a bad week too, by the way. And when Raw has a bad week, other wrestling has a bad week. That’s how things seem to go. Wrestling fans break them up into really separate pieces, but generally the wrestling crowd follows that pattern. As Raw goes, so does the business. I doubt it would have been a hot week for either show, and SmackDown will probably be down too (and no, it doesn’t always go down).


Where did you predict 850k?? Only number I found you predicting is 1.2 million but you're backing away from that


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NXT is so trash that literally they could only manage to pull in 50% of what typical Wednesday was pulling. So many people just decided that NXT is dog shit to the point of tuning out entirely and deciding Wednesday night wrestling isn't worth tuning into without AEW.
> 
> .48 in total the previous week, to .24 unopposed, NXT is dead programming that should be cancelled soon.
> 
> Hopefully USA pulls the trigger on this dead brand soon.


18-34 was lower than last week when opposed with aew


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pippen94 said:


> 18-34 was lower than last week when opposed with aew


They did a .05 in females 12-34, young women wrestling fans think NXT is the lamest shit they've ever seen in their lives.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Where did you predict 850k?? Only number I found you predicting is 1.2 million but you're backing away from that


I can’t remember — you’re the one obsessed with me. It was somewhere discussing preemptions or upcoming programming. I’ve clarified the 1.2 million thing. You’re the one irrationally clinging to it.


----------



## Purple Haze

I knew NXT wouldn't draw shit when i saw that their biggest feud wasn't featured on the go home show.


----------



## Cult03

Weirdly, AEW draws 850k and everyone is ecstatic, NXT does it and it's shit. Can we just agree that NXT has wrestling fans and AEW has gymnastics or what Cody "believes in" this week fans. They're different and their fans don't cross over.


----------



## iarwain

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NXT is so trash that literally they could only manage to pull in 50% of what typical Wednesday was pulling.


I'd be interesting in knowing what AEW would pull unopposed. I don't imagine WWE would allow there to be a Wednesday night without an NXT show however.


----------



## One Shed

iarwain said:


> I'd be interesting in knowing what AEW would pull unopposed. I don't imagine WWE would allow there to be a Wednesday night without an NXT show however.


What a strange comment considering NXT will not be airing on USA on 9/2 due to NHL playoffs...


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> Weirdly, AEW draws 850k and everyone is ecstatic, NXT does it and it's shit. Can we just agree that NXT has wrestling fans and AEW has gymnastics or what Cody "believes in" this week fans. They're different and their fans don't cross over.


That does seem to be the initial implication. I'm intrigued to see if NXT does something to promote cross-over, but at first glance it does seem there are only 250k undecided fans.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I can’t remember — you’re the one obsessed with me. It was somewhere discussing preemptions or upcoming programming. I’ve clarified the 1.2 million thing. You’re the one irrationally clinging to it.


You're a funny guy - lies about making correct prediction & backs away from what you actually posted


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Weirdly, AEW draws 850k and everyone is ecstatic, NXT does it and it's shit. Can we just agree that NXT has wrestling fans and AEW has gymnastics or what Cody "believes in" this week fans. They're different and their fans don't cross over.


Because aew does same number without competition. Plus demos for show particularly under 35 quite bad


----------



## The Wood

Apparently this was the best overnight viewership for NXT in 2020. So Pippen is lying again. On multiple counts. I'd also like to know about the demos Showbuzz doesn't chart, but Nielsen no doubt does and sells to interested parties. Which product does better with Hispanic audiences, black audiences and gay audiences? I don't know which way it would go, but that would certainly be interesting and more relevant than arbitrary age blocks in 2020. Most of the NXT's younger audience still probably watches on the WWE Network on Thursdays or when it suits them. You know, like young people do, since most of them probably don't have cable in 2020.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> That does seem to be the initial implication. I'm intrigued to see if NXT does something to promote cross-over, but at first glance it does seem there are only 250k undecided fans.


Mere speculation - fact show picked up so few of aew's under 35 viewers means it's a lot more complicated. The number I hear of viewers who switch between shows is about 70k - so an extra 100k aew fans tuned in this week. What we do know is more people tune in first week to check shows out then 2nd week


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Because aew does same number without competition. Plus demos for show particularly under 35 quite bad


AEW doens't really have competition. There's no gymnastics and reinvented wheel pro wrestling on any other channel at the same time. Demos don't matter to you and me. They only matter to the tv networks. Under 35 now? When did 36 year olds stop mattering? No 49 year old turns 50 and stops spending money on shit they don't really need. These are all bullshit excuses to justify more hypocrisy.


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NXT is so trash that literally they could only manage to pull in 50% of what typical Wednesday was pulling. So many people just decided that NXT is dog shit to the point of tuning out entirely and deciding Wednesday night wrestling isn't worth tuning into without AEW.
> 
> .48 in total the previous week, to .24 unopposed, NXT is dead programming that should be cancelled soon.
> 
> Hopefully USA pulls the trigger on this dead brand soon.


Hope at least you realize that you are a troll or actually a really sad and depressed person


----------



## fabi1982

And what everyone actually sees this week are the trolls, who dont watch AEW for fun, but who just want WWE to die. Funny thing that we are now discussing WWE in the AEW ratings thread without AEW on TV this week. This is above desperate to show the hate. NXT forum has a ratings thread as well, why not discuss this there? Oh I know, no one over there gives a crap


----------



## imthegame19

So remember last week when I said quarters are meaningless and gotta go off minute by minutes... Well Meltzer said this today.

While the main event numbers for Jericho vs. Cassidy don’t look all that high when compared with the rest of the show, the actual minute-by-minute numbers show the Shida vs. Monroe match did not do well and the audience plummeted during a commercial right before the match. The match gained, then lost, during a commercial break but *actually skyrocketed after that break and ended up right around 1 million viewers and 500,000 in 18-49 which is the level only AEW’s biggest matches with its top guys hit.*


So like I said last week AEW unfortunately putting Orange Cassidy in this position for a reason. While small lead in of viewers and commercial break brought the quarter down a lot. This is why I learned that weekly quarter breakdowns are very flawed.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Looking at that Thunderdome that's about to go on television, AEW should just go ahead and launch their second show immediately on Mondays. WWE is about to render itself more vulnerable than they could ever be with this horrible concept. AEW could beat Raw with WWE putting on this eyesore.



imthegame19 said:


> So remember last week when I said quarters are meaningless and gotta go off minute by minutes... Well Meltzer said this today.
> 
> While the main event numbers for Jericho vs. Cassidy don’t look all that high when compared with the rest of the show, the actual minute-by-minute numbers show the Shida vs. Monroe match did not do well and the audience plummeted during a commercial right before the match. The match gained, then lost, during a commercial break but *actually skyrocketed after that break and ended up right around 1 million viewers and 500,000 in 18-49 which is the level only AEW’s biggest matches with its top guys hit.*


This reads confusingly. The ratings sucked for the whole episode because it started low. They just aren't booking any hooks for the next week, Mox is here and then he's gone, the continuity isn't there between episodes or within episodes, the main events just happen at the end of the show without an opening or mid-show segment, they are repeating matches on the same show, there is no variety, they keep jamming Brodie Lee's dick in our mouths and we don't get Allie, Brandi, Ford or Kelly on television (all the hottest women in the promotion).


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I just love how we've gone from overall ratings to prove things to demographics and now blow by blow minute by minute tracking of ratings to prove points. 

No worries Dave, Orange Cassidy is awesome. Settle down big fella.


----------



## rbl85

Dave have been doing it for others quarters and with other wrestlers.


----------



## iarwain

Lheurch said:


> What a strange comment considering NXT will not be airing on USA on 9/2 due to NHL playoffs...


Okay, I didn't know that. Should be interesting to see what AEW draws then.


----------



## One Shed

iarwain said:


> Okay, I didn't know that. Should be interesting to see what AEW draws then.


People are also forgetting there was a national political convention airing in prime time this week that was watched by a lot of people.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

iarwain said:


> I'd be interesting in knowing what AEW would pull unopposed. I don't imagine WWE would allow there to be a Wednesday night without an NXT show however.


We will find out on 9/2


----------



## Pippen94

WON: The final part of Orange Cassidy vs Chris Jericho was a big ratings success ending up around 1 million viewers


> In the main event battle, AEW with Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy did 783,000 viewers and 398,000 in the 18-49, while NXT with KUSHIDA vs. Cameron Grimes vs. Velveteen Dream did 621,000 viewers and 205,000 in 18-49. While the main event numbers for Jericho vs. Cassidy don’t look all that high when compared with the rest of the show, the actual minute-by-minute numbers show the Shida vs. Monroe match did not do well and the audience plummeted during a commercial right before the match. The match gained, then lost, during a commercial break but *actually skyrocketed after that break and ended up right around 1 million viewers and 500,000 in 18-49 which is the level only AEW’s biggest matches with its top guys hit.*


----------



## One Shed

So this is based on data no one else has access to. Sounds like Uncle Dave.


----------



## I AM Glacier

GOAT gonna GOAT


----------



## Prosper

Lol damn. Those are Moxley numbers. I don’t know though. I’m sure the segment did do better than original but a million cable viewers for OC sounds skewed. Or maybe it was the DemoGod who drew.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> So this is based on data no one else has access to. Sounds like Uncle Dave.


AEW have access to it so that's maybe why they're pushing OC


----------



## Cult03

I wonder if having the only star in the company in the segment helped?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Haha typical Meltzer. No proof so easy to say these things and push a narrative. The people who want to believe him will take it as gospel.

The facts are the official number we have says that segment did 783k (avg), so for them to have ended up on over 1m they must have started at around 600K and rose all the way to 1m? Yeah right, i call bullshit.

Why don't he release the full numbers rather than just telling us.


----------



## One Shed

Cult03 said:


> I wonder if having the only star in the company in the segment helped?


We all know Yurple the Clown was the real draw for the "This is your Life" segment not The Rock or Foley.


----------



## Prosper

What’s funny is that the segment actually did do over a million viewers if you take into account everything that’s not cable lol. So did the Velveteen Dream match. Ratings discussions are so pointless lol.


----------



## The XL 2

I mean, he was in there with Jericho....


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Looks like we got a new star on our hands!

Also. I don't get why people keep posting in Won/MELTZER threads when y'all think whatever he says is bullshit.


----------



## Mike E

I can't wait to hear the pop Cassidy gets on Saturday night. Even at only 10% capacity you know its going to be loud!


----------



## taker1986

prosperwithdeen said:


> Not trackable. International metrics are not done through Nielson, but if I knew what streaming sites they were using abroad, I would be able to gauge how much traffic those sites were getting and how many people were illegally watching. What illegal streaming sites are you using in Australia to watch?
> 
> With international ratings, most of it is general. WWE in a general sense does well in Latin America, Japan, Canada, etc for example but does terribly in the UK. AEW is doing well in Europe, but probably terrible in the rest of the world.


Just to follow on from that, AEW in the UK did 170k viewers last week on ITV4 last Friday night, which was more than Raw, SD and NXT combined. It gets shown again on ITV1 on Monday night and does around the same, sometimes even more since its the top 2 station in the UK but its also on around midnight. Of course most hardcore UK fans like myself are going to watch on fitetv on Wed night or on thur, so these numbers for Friday and Monday are very good, despite the lack of advertising itv gives AEW, which has been pretty garbage tbh, it just shows what great support it's getting but with a more committed channel could also be doing better.

Honestly, they should really think about doing a 10 day European tour next year when things are back to normal again. Have small house shows in France, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Italy etc in front of small 2-4k venues and have the main show of the tour being a Dynamite in the UK at the O2 Arena. That would really grow the fanbase in Europe even more, and then soon after that think about doing small house shows in Japan, South America etc.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I believe the numbers, no doubt, they exist and it makes sense. But this is scary to me because it is like AEWs version of women. Yes, Sasha or Becky will boost the ratings when they are on alot of times, especially if it is built up, but what is the overall harm it is doing to the show? Is it putting a ceiling on the overall show? Like, yeah, of the 2.5 million wrestling fans left, maybe that segment draws an extra 2-400k, and maybe Cassidy was part of a built up segment that pushed a great number, but is it keeping others from following?

Like if the womens revolution never happened, would WWE be in the high 2s instead of high 1s/low 2s? Without the Cassidy/Marko stuff, would AEW be at a milliion or more all of the time? 

I believe they are hinderance. Kind of like garbage TDs at the end of a game where you still lost by 3 TDs.


----------



## sjm76

What do so many people see in a guy who dresses like a geek wearing a t-shirt with his own face on it, who is an average wrestler, looks like he's never been inside a gym in his life and is nothing special on the mic? On top of that, his gimmick makes a total mockery of the wrestling business. Yet this guy seems to be becoming a draw? I guess I'll never understand.


----------



## La Parka

sjm76 said:


> What do so many people see in a guy who dresses like a geek wearing a t-shirt with his own face on it, who is an average wrestler, looks like he's never been inside a gym in his life and is nothing special on the mic? On top of that, his gimmick makes a total mockery of the wrestling business. Yet this guy seems to be becoming a draw? I guess I'll never understand.


The people tuning in aren't wrestling fans for the most part. They're fans of shitty comedy and likely call wrestling fake and silly. 

WWE chased the real wrestling fans away by being shit for years and AEW brought in the new type of fan that likely watched shows like jackass on MTV and those types of programs.


----------



## Prosper

taker1986 said:


> Just to follow on from that, AEW in the UK did 170k viewers last week on ITV4 last Friday night, which was more than Raw, SD and NXT combined. It gets shown again on ITV1 on Monday night and does around the same, sometimes even more since its the top 2 station in the UK but its also on around midnight. Of course most hardcore UK fans like myself are going to watch on fitetv on Wed night or on thur, so these numbers for Friday and Monday are very good, despite the lack of advertising itv gives AEW, which has been pretty garbage tbh, it just shows what great support it's getting but with a more committed channel could also be doing better.
> 
> Honestly, they should really think about doing a 10 day European tour next year when things are back to normal again. Have small house shows in France, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Italy etc in front of small 2-4k venues and have the main show of the tour being a Dynamite in the UK at the O2 Arena. That would really grow the fanbase in Europe even more, and then soon after that think about doing small house shows in Japan, South America etc.


Wow didn’t know that. I keep reading in multiple places about how much WWE is dying in the UK and how much AEW is growing but never had access to the int’l numbers. That goes for all of Europe actually. International support is growing for the home team, I love to see it. 174K is pretty good especially when it doesn't even include FiteTV. Hopefully they can reach WWE levels internationally eventually.

They were actually planning on doing a tour in the UK before COVID hit. I believe the original plan was for Fyter Fest to be in London if I remember correctly. Would have been lit.


----------



## Nothing Finer

He's getting himself over at the expense of making wrestling look like absolute shit. I'm an AEW fan, but it's disgusting that they let this asshole get away with it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

La Parka said:


> The people tuning in aren't wrestling fans for the most part. They're fans of shitty comedy and likely call wrestling fake and silly.


It's a defense mechanism; so that when they are approached by friends of theirs that stopped watching years ago who ask "you still watch that shit?", they can laugh it off themselves and claim they only watch for the lulz.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Cult03 said:


> I wonder if having the only star in the company in the segment helped?


Yeah OC killed it lol 😉


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I mentioned in the ratings thread but the AEW fans (Including Meltzer) and their moving of goal posts is hilarious.

10 months ago when AEW debuted it was all about the overall rating. People were on here speculating AEW would be 1 million plus easily and could be competitive with the WWE rating and rah rah rah. Nobody gave a fuck about the demographic ever.

Then the overall rating wasn't too crash hot but the demo was decent so it became all about the demo but the demo still wasn't entirely too crash hot and was still losing to WWE.

So now the posts have been moved again to the minute by minute rating which oddly enough AEW stooge Dave Meltzer only has access to and we're expected to trust him because he's totally not biased at all.

Soon it'll be Meltzer reporting that for 5 minutes AEW was beating WWE in the minute by minute demo for girls aged 8-16 and celebrating the fact. Dude has become a bigger joke than Orange Cassidy.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> I mentioned in the ratings thread but the AEW fans (Including Meltzer) and their moving of goal posts is hilarious.
> 
> 10 months ago when AEW debuted it was all about the overall rating. People were on here speculating AEW would be 1 million plus easily and could be competitive with the WWE rating and rah rah rah. Nobody gave a fuck about the demographic ever.
> 
> Then the overall rating wasn't too crash hot but the demo was decent so it became all about the demo but the demo still wasn't entirely too crash hot and was still losing to WWE.
> 
> So now the posts have been moved again to the minute by minute rating which oddly enough AEW stooge Dave Meltzer only has access to and we're expected to trust him because he's totally not biased at all.
> 
> Soon it'll be Meltzer reporting that for 5 minutes AEW was beating WWE in the minute by minute demo for girls aged 8-16 and celebrating the fact. Dude has become a bigger joke than Orange Cassidy.


I don't understand why people aren't allowed to learn about Demographics in television and why that's an important thing. You're not allowed to grow and change and improve and become a better wiser person without being a hypocrite who annoys you? Silly. NXT can get 2 million viewers, if they're all 50 plus the advertisers aren't going to give a fuck. 50 plusers don't spend a shit load of money on dumb product.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

MontyCora said:


> I don't understand why people aren't allowed to learn about Demographics in television and why that's an important thing. You're not allowed to grow and change and improve and become a better wiser person without being a hypocrite who annoys you? Silly. NXT can get 2 million viewers, if they're all 50 plus the advertisers aren't going to give a fuck. 50 plusers don't spend a shit load of money on dumb product.


Hey if it's just a learning process that's cool but many people seem to twist and turn the ratings to suit the whole "AEW is the best thing ever" narrative.


----------



## MontyCora

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hey if it's just a learning process that's cool but many people seem to twist and turn the ratings to suit the whole "AEW is the best thing ever" narrative.


None of these shows are the best thing ever. None of them. They're all some variation of porridge that isn't quite right.


----------



## RainmakerV2

They went up against Cameron Grimes and Kushida. 





Cameron Grimes and Kushida.







Cameron Gr...aw fuck it


----------



## Y2K23

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hey if it's just a learning process that's cool but many people seem to twist and turn the ratings to suit the whole "AEW is the best thing ever" narrative.


Lol no one has called AEW "the best thing ever". Its still the best wrestling show on television by a mile to anyone with common sense


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Y2K23 said:


> Lol no one has called AEW "the best thing ever". Its still the best wrestling show on television by a mile to anyone with common sense


Mate, in the past we've had people saying MJF is the best thing in wrestling and that AEW is the best wrestling show since late 90's WWF/WCW. It's definitely highly praised on here.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Y2K23 said:


> Lol no one has called AEW "the best thing ever". Its still the best wrestling show on television by a mile to anyone with common sense


AEW isnt miles better than NXT lol. They're basically the same show only AEW has bigger names.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> I believe the numbers, no doubt, they exist and it makes sense. But this is scary to me because it is like AEWs version of women. Yes, Sasha or Becky will boost the ratings when they are on alot of times, especially if it is built up, but what is the overall harm it is doing to the show? Is it putting a ceiling on the overall show? Like, yeah, of the 2.5 million wrestling fans left, maybe that segment draws an extra 2-400k, and maybe Cassidy was part of a built up segment that pushed a great number, but is it keeping others from following?
> 
> Like if the womens revolution never happened, would WWE be in the high 2s instead of high 1s/low 2s? Without the Cassidy/Marko stuff, would AEW be at a milliion or more all of the time?
> 
> I believe they are hinderance. Kind of like garbage TDs at the end of a game where you still lost by 3 TDs.


Good argument. Marko doesn't affect the ratings though. Yeah he's trash but the kid doesn't get nearly enough air time to cause any kind of difference. OC on the other hand, we will never know. The guy is super popular but he could very well be a hindrance at the same time.


----------



## CM Buck

RainmakerV2 said:


> They went up against Cameron Grimes and Kushida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Grimes and Kushida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Gr...aw fuck it


To be fair Cameron grimes is actually a pretty entertaining shit weasel.

On topic. Keep math and numbers out of my wrestling. Unless it's a 10 or 3 count i don't care. There's a whole thread for you and chip and lhurch to throw numbers at each other mate.

The rest of us don't care


----------



## Bret'Hitman'Hart

prosperwithdeen said:


> What’s funny is that the segment actually did do over a million viewers if you take into account everything that’s not cable lol. So did the Velveteen Dream match. Ratings discussions are so pointless lol.


You are 100% correct. The only reason and only time ratings get mentioned on this forum is when it suits the agenda of known AEW haters.That I'm all for subjective thought and criticism to anything , within reason. However I can't always help but notice that when NXT does far worse than AEW in ratings(Or even has a weak segment for that matter.) The vultures come out to prey on whatever scraps they are given. I feel sorry for the people who dedicate entire day(s) of posting trying to (unsuccsefully) dissuade others from loving the product AEW has given us. Yeah Jericho should not have lost this way and yes he looked more sloppy than usual but it's already in the books so let's move on to the next.OC is a fan favorite and ratings don't always dictate truth so its always subjective.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> The rest of us don't care


No? I'm fairly sure I've seen more than just myself, Lheurch and Rainmaker in there although I might have to check...


----------



## Bret'Hitman'Hart

I'll say this Lheurch is fair in his or her assessments of AEW. Chip has his or her moments , I enjoy reading both posters.(Albeit sometimes just for the lols.) This rainmaker character is somewhat waiting in the shadows , much like myself. I haven't seen enough to nake a proper assessment. Thanks for all the interesting reads though.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Meltzer has reached the highest level of patheticness with the mental gymastics.



> Q1: 775,000 viewers, 403,000 in 18-49 - The Young Bucks vs. The _Dark_ Order
> Q2: 776,000 viewers (+1,000), 409,000 in 18-49 (+6,000) - MJF Promo, Jon Moxley attacks
> Q3: 779,000 viewers (+3,000), 408,000 in 18-49 (-1,000) - Cody vs. Scorpio Sky
> Q4: 809,000 (+30,000), 440,000 in 18-49 (+32,000) - Cody vs. Scorpio Sky finish, Hangman Page and Kenny Omega vs. Jurassic Express
> Q5: 817,000 (+8,000), 437,000 in 18-49 (-3,000) - Page & Omega vs. Jurassic Express finish
> Q6: 862,000 (+45,000), 461,000 in 18-49 (+24,000) - Tag Team Appreciation Night segment, FTR attack The Rock 'N Roll Express
> Q7: 739,000 (-123,000), 384,000 in 18-49 (-77,000) - Chris Jericho - Mike Chioda segment, Hikaru Shida vs. Heather Monroe
> Q8: 783,000 (+44,000), 398,000 in 18-49 (+15,000) - Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy


It's a solid number OC and Jericho got but remember it was the main event and but if we look at the numbers that we have, it was only the four biggest quarter number that night for AEW. With my boy Tully getting the pot spot. 

As for the Demo 18-49, OC vs Jericho was the second lowest in numbers. So bow down to the old people, they made you famous, OC.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> No? I'm fairly sure I've seen more than just myself, Lheurch and Rainmaker in there although I might have to check...


OK the ones that don't care about numbers lol


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards. WWE spent years during the cena pg era building a family friendly brand and scoring top advertisers and sponsors something AEW will never do.


----------



## SPCDRI

The women's squash match into commercials murdered the show's numbers. They were 862,000 viewers for the quarter hour before that on average and then the next quarter hour averaged 124,000 lower than that. The absolute low point of that quarter hour could have been south of 600,000 and Jericho/Cassidy rescued the show and actually averaged 44,000 total viewership gain from the prior quarter hour average. That Shida squash into commercials must have been totally, totally ruinous, like, going from a segment that average 862,000 and could have peaked in the 900,000s to like, low 600,000s at its worst point. Put the viewership right into the gutter. 
You can see that the stuff NXT was doing went from a quarter hour that averaged 609,000 to 637,000 against that segment.


----------



## Bret'Hitman'Hart

CenaBoy4Life said:


> like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards. WWE spent years during the cena pg era building a family friendly brand and scoring top advertisers and sponsors something AEW will never do.


Yeah and we see how awesome the WWE product has been during the cena and PG era. If it was any good AEW would never have had to exist. Food for thought.


----------



## Prosper

CenaBoy4Life said:


> like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards. WWE spent years during the cena pg era building a family friendly brand and scoring top advertisers and sponsors something AEW will never do.


You okay?


----------



## MontyCora

CenaBoy4Life said:


> like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards. WWE spent years during the cena pg era building a family friendly brand and scoring top advertisers and sponsors something AEW will never do.


Yeah, WWE sure is crushing it with the advertisers. Ads like... And so on and so forth...


----------



## reamstyles

From the looks of it a sober enzo amore will be gold in aew, if they push the right buttons


----------



## NathanMayberry

Since when does Nielsen track minute by minute? 


Up until this week it was in 15 minute blocks, not suddenly they're tracking by the minute? So anyone scrolling through their TV and happened to pass through TNT at the time would have been counted..


----------



## Not Lying

- Dave doesn't have to lie around that, and wouldn't he be doing AEW a disservice by claiming this for OC if he wasn't really a draw? This isn't really something subjective for him to twist and turn.

- Good on OC, the guy is talented and in this bland era of everyone doing the same moves and looking alike, it's guys that stand out that become success, OC stands out

- Ouch. That's why AEW's women division needs some work and some build-up. They'll keep losing numbers until they hire better wrestlers that don't look sloppy or poorly trained, and put them in some stories.


----------



## Peerless

Of course, Meltzer pulls out the minute by minute stats when it comes to guys like Cassidy LOL.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> - Dave doesn't have to lie around that, and wouldn't he be doing AEW a disservice by claiming this for OC if he wasn't really a draw? This isn't really something subjective for him to twist and turn.


Of course he would lie. He wants to pretend that AEW know what they're doing and everything they do is good/right. They are his mates and he will protect them.


----------



## zkorejo

According to AEW shop, OC matched or outsold Jericho in merchandise in the past year. Haters/Cornettos/WWE shills will never admit it, but the guy actually is popular. Deal with it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Chip Chipperson said:


> Of course he would lie. He wants to pretend that AEW know what they're doing and everything they do is good/right. They are his mates and he will protect them.


Well they've been pretty damn successful and made a new star so clearly they know what they're doing.


----------



## Mercian

I expected AEW to be the best of ROH/NJPW, its at times a very difficult watch thus the many times it's been linked to late 93 WCW by myself or at times at its best WCW nitro

It's an infuriating promotion which yeah sure its better than RAW, which can do stand out things one minute and absurd stupidity that turns fans away forever the next

Having been away from wrestling a few years and had a particuarly hard year personally I find enjoyment from it, just wish it would live up to its potential

Orange Cassidy does stand out-as an utter embarassment to wrestling and the promotion


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well they've been pretty damn successful and made a new star so clearly they know what they're doing.


Have they made a new star? Is that really all it takes? A couple TV main events and a win over Jericho?

When Orange Cassidy rocks up on a mainstream TV show because he's so popular that the mainstream media must have him that's when we can view him as a star. Right now he's a popular act in front of 700k beards.


----------



## Marbar

I love AEW but haven't watched the complete show live since the whole OC / Jericho debacle started. When they show up Dynamite gets turned off and I watch the DVR recording later omitting that segment. If that's your cup of tea fine but I refuse to watch Jericho try to sell that BS. At this point the IC which was a great heel faction has been reduced to a complete trainwreck. It's a shame because they had so much potential.


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> Have they made a new star? Is that really all it takes? A couple TV main events and a win over Jericho?
> 
> When Orange Cassidy rocks up on a mainstream TV show because he's so popular that the mainstream media must have him that's when we can view him as a star. Right now he's a popular act in front of 700k beards.



Did you even watch aew when they had crowds? Get over yourself. Just because you dont like him and are in denial because if you watched the shows you would have hears OC get the biggest pops. If you go to the show hes entertaining asfuck. Why do you argue stupid shit ahen facts are everywhere.

I even went to one event and he had the biggest pop. It dont fucking Mather if hes compelling ring wrestler telling a story or a gimmick, hes over.

Now its obvious hes a reactionary character so no fans make him not so great. 

So you're better than the wrestling fans? We're all beards? Does it truly bother you many of those beards like him?


What mathers is the people watching the product. Stop fussing about an audience. Wrestling is not main steam but who cares

Hes not for everyone but do not insult the people that he's for. 

In fact lee is oposit, most dont like him but some do. I dont rant about his fans just him


----------



## Aedubya

reamstyles said:


> From the looks of it a sober enzo amore will be gold in aew, if they push the right buttons


?


----------



## NathanMayberry

zkorejo said:


> According to AEW shop, OC matched or outsold Jericho in merchandise in the past year. Haters/Cornettos/WWE shills will never admit it, but the guy actually is popular. Deal with it.


All this shows is just how much Jericho has fallen since joining AEW.


----------



## zkorejo

NathanMayberry said:


> All this shows is just how much Jericho has fallen since joining AEW.


The guy is the top seller from their entire roster according to their website. He was getting huge pops when crowds were around. His segments and match with Jericho did well in numbers. But sure, whatever helps you sleep at night.


----------



## NathanMayberry

zkorejo said:


> The guy is the top seller from their entire roster according to their website. He was getting huge pops when crowds were around. His segments and match with Jericho did well in numbers. But sure, whatever helps you sleep at night.


Jericho was in the ring with GOATs getting more eyes on him in one week than he gets now in one month.

And now he's getting outsold by a clown.


----------



## The Wood

MontyCora said:


> I don't understand why people aren't allowed to learn about Demographics in television and why that's an important thing. You're not allowed to grow and change and improve and become a better wiser person without being a hypocrite who annoys you? Silly. NXT can get 2 million viewers, if they're all 50 plus the advertisers aren't going to give a fuck. 50 plusers don't spend a shit load of money on dumb product.


The last time I went to the Nielsen page, there were articles about Asian American viewers. The 18-49 demo is alleged to be important because they were the audience believed to spend the most money. Is this still the case? Culture has changed a lot over the past 20 years. Younger people live on their phones. Advertisers aren't obligated to pay TNT for ad space if they don't value it. We don't know that AEW's audience is valued. It is presumed and projected by AEW fans, but we are not privy to TNT's inner workings there. 

It's quite possible that even with that rating in the demo, that the 18-34 year olds AEW gets are mostly white and dumpy and that they only spend money on wrestling and tabletop games. A sneaker company may look into AEW and discover that it is not useful to invest their money into advertising because AEW fans are not the sort of people who care about nice shoes, and they're not the sort of people they want to see their shoes on. 

This is the only reason the demos matter. If the people watching AEW are valuable, advertisers will plonk a lot more money into AEW, which in turn makes TNT money. This is not an automatic or guaranteed thing. A large demo rating does not necessarily mean that AEW is raking in the big bucks for TNT. It's possible that a show with a much lower demo rating actually makes a lot more in revenue -- which is all TNT cares about. 

The truth is we don't know what AEW attracts in terms of advertising revenue. It's quite possible that they attract less than NXT even despite the demos -- this could be because of WWE's branding and perception. USA also gets to keep 100% of NXT's ad revenue, whereas AEW gets half of it. That's a lot of money left on the table, and it's quite possible that the new executives in TNT absolutely loathe that deal. We just don't know.



CenaBoy4Life said:


> like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards. WWE spent years during the cena pg era building a family friendly brand and scoring top advertisers and sponsors something AEW will never do.


There is potentially truth to this. What does an advertiser think of when they think of your average wrestling fan? That's an important question. It doesn't even need to be accurate. Wrestling fans have had a bad rep for a long time. It's possible that some brands just don't want to be associated with wrestling at all -- regardless of whether or not it is popular. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Of course he would lie. He wants to pretend that AEW know what they're doing and everything they do is good/right. They are his mates and he will protect them.


Tony Khan's wrestling education is from Meltzer too. It could be that Meltzer considers himself to have skin in the game. It's not a great look for him if the guy who learnt everything he knows from Meltzer eats shit.



shandcraig said:


> Did you even watch aew when they had crowds? Get over yourself. Just because you dont like him and are in denial because if you watched the shows you would have hears OC get the biggest pops. If you go to the show hes entertaining asfuck. Why do you argue stupid shit ahen facts are everywhere.
> 
> I even went to one event and he had the biggest pop. It dont fucking Mather if hes compelling ring wrestler telling a story or a gimmick, hes over.
> 
> Now its obvious hes a reactionary character so no fans make him not so great.
> 
> So you're better than the wrestling fans? We're all beards? Does it truly bother you many of those beards like him?
> 
> 
> What mathers is the people watching the product. Stop fussing about an audience. Wrestling is not main steam but who cares
> 
> Hes not for everyone but do not insult the people that he's for.
> 
> In fact lee is oposit, most dont like him but some do. I dont rant about his fans just him


This is actually a good example of how people don't really understand demos. That the average AEW fan is the sort of person who is entertained by Orange Cassidy and buys his merch might actually work against them. ;-)


----------



## shandcraig

This is actually a good example of how people don't really understand demos. That the average AEW fan is the sort of person who is entertained by Orange Cassidy and buys his merch might actually work against them. ;-)
[/QUOTE]
Yes terrible so terrible. You do know that an arena full of paying custimers is an important market. Much more important than tv because if these die hards dont show up and dont pay than they wouldn't even have a tv deal.

Arena full of people cheering for OC is not your problem. if you dont lile like him fine but dont speak for everyone


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> Yes terrible so terrible. You do know that an arena full of paying custimers is an important market. Much more important than tv because if these die hards dont show up and dont pay than they wouldn't even have a tv deal.
> 
> Arena full of people cheering for OC is not your problem. if you dont lile like him fine but dont speak for everyone


If I took a shit in an AEW ring and called it "WWE creative," I'd get a massive pop and would be "over" with that audience. You need to do better than that.


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> If I took a shit in an AEW ring and called it "WWE creative," I'd get a massive pop and would be "over" with that audience. You need to do better than that.


You and chip got issues. Rambles and rambles of extensive debating and acting like the knowledgeable wrestling warriors in here yet are also at each other's throats. 

You should do better


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Definition of Technician said:


> - Dave doesn't have to lie around that, and wouldn't he be doing AEW a disservice by claiming this for OC if he wasn't really a draw? This isn't really something subjective for him to twist and turn.
> 
> - Good on OC, the guy is talented and in this bland era of everyone doing the same moves and looking alike, it's guys that stand out that become success, OC stands out
> 
> - Ouch. That's why AEW's women division needs some work and some build-up. They'll keep losing numbers until they hire better wrestlers that don't look sloppy or poorly trained, and put them in some stories.


All segments with OC have been ratings duds so him coming with this is REALLY far fetched.


----------



## Pippen94

shandcraig said:


> You and chip got issues. Rambles and rambles of extensive debating and acting like the knowledgeable wrestling warriors in here yet are also at each other's throats.
> 
> You should do better


Spoiler - they're same person


----------



## shandcraig

Pippen94 said:


> Spoiler - they're same person



I wouldn't be surprised


----------



## Chip Chipperson

shandcraig said:


> You and chip got issues. Rambles and rambles of extensive debating and acting like the knowledgeable wrestling warriors in here yet are also at each other's throats.
> 
> You should do better


Wood and I are at each others throats? We've disagreed in the past but I don't think we've ever actually had a debate.

Also, would you really argue that we aren't knowledgeable on the topic of pro wrestling? You know better.



Pippen94 said:


> Spoiler - they're same person





shandcraig said:


> I wouldn't be surprised


Ah, this old gag. Wood must dedicate his entire life to this forum if he has like 10 anti AEW accounts here with different writing styles, different views etc.

Maybe...just maybe...some people don't all think that AEW is awesome? Shocking I know...


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wood and I are at each others throats? We've disagreed in the past but I don't think we've ever actually had a debate.
> 
> Also, would you really argue that we aren't knowledgeable on the topic of pro wrestling? You know better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, this old gag. Wood must dedicate his entire life to this forum if he has like 10 anti AEW accounts here with different writing styles, different views etc.
> 
> Maybe...just maybe...some people don't all think that AEW is awesome? Shocking I know...



I have plenty of criticisms but you literally write essays onn every last thing as if its more than it r3ally is. like a journalist and you're basically grabbing claiming to be an export


----------



## Chip Chipperson

shandcraig said:


> I have plenty of criticisms but you literally write essays onn every last thing as if its more than it r3ally is. like a journalist and you're basically grabbing claiming to be an export


Yes, I write like a journalist because I went to school for journalism, radio broadcasting and video production. As for being an expert I don't think I am one but I have industry experience and have done for a long time so "knowledgeable" is definitely something I'd consider myself.


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, I write like a journalist because I went to school for journalism, radio broadcasting and video production. As for being an expert I don't think I am one but I have industry experience and have done for a long time so "knowledgeable" is definitely something I'd consider myself.



You're no better than anyone in here. You just like to think that what many people like is wrong. No one gives a shit how well you write. when you try to tell a bunch of people that someones not popular when its clearly wrong makes your little educational check list look even more embarrassing


----------



## Chip Chipperson

shandcraig said:


> You're no better than anyone in here. You just like to think that what many people like is wrong. No one gives a shit how well you write. when you try to tell a bunch of people that someones not popular when its clearly wrong makes your little educational check list look even more embarrassing


I don't think I'm better than anyone here my argument simply is knowledgeable on the topic. Many others here are as well.

You care about my writing you're the one that brought it up.


----------



## shandcraig

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think I'm better than anyone here my argument simply is knowledgeable on the topic. Many others here are as well.
> 
> You care about my writing you're the one that brought it up.


No you brought up your list. Anyways i think you just argue regardless of being wrong. Half this thread is you trying to over rule. Its tiring not seeing diversity in here


----------



## Chip Chipperson

shandcraig said:


> No you brought up your list. Anyways i think you just argue regardless of being wrong. Half this thread is you trying to over rule. Its tiring not seeing diversity in here


Half the thread? 232 pages of me arguing despite being wrong? Wowwww, I must be dedicated.


----------



## Bret'Hitman'Hart

Chip Chipperson said:


> Half the thread? 232 pages of me arguing despite being wrong? Wowwww, I must be dedicated.


No disrespect Chip , but you are definitely dedicated lol.


----------



## Pippen94

Bret'Hitman'Hart said:


> No disrespect Chip , but you are definitely dedicated lol.


He's actually aew's most loyal fan - just doesn't know it


----------



## Vitamin R

CenaBoy4Life said:


> like advertisers give a fuck bout the demo for a tiny wrestling show full of neckbeards.


A fanbase "full of neckbeards" also describes WWE perfectly:











Face it, the kids and families left with Cena years ago.


----------



## Aedubya

Ratings out later?


----------



## thorn123

If that show doesn’t rate well it demonstrates there is little correlation between quality and popularity on tv.


----------



## rbl85

DaveRA said:


> If that show doesn’t rate well it demonstrates there is little correlation between quality and popularity on tv.


You can see if a show was seen as a quality show with the difference between the first 2 quarters and the overall number of the show.

If a show start a 730K and the overall number at the end is more or less the same then that means that the show was a quality one.

If the show start with 900k and at the end the overall number is 750K then that means that a good part of your audience thought that it wasn't a good show.

You can see the quality of a show not with his final number but with the retention of viewers between the start and the end of the show.


----------



## sideon

I'm going to say that Dynamite gets 977k.


----------



## Dark Emperor

sideon said:


> I'm going to say that Dynamite gets 977k.


What makes you say that? They haven’t had a viewership rating that high since around week 4 all the way back in October.

So there is no way they will get close to that out of their regular time slot. Some people are expecting an NBA bump. But the actually NBA viewership isn’t that high. Playoff games in afternoon and evenings are averaging 1.6m or less. Smackdown just got a 2.2m this week.

Plus any NBA fan would have switched over to ESPN as another playoff game started same time as Dynamite.

Anything above 750k is good in my opinion.


----------



## Prosper

I’m gonna go with 540K. While it was a really good episode it was still on a Saturday at 6pm and then it didn’t even start on time with the playoffs going longer than expected. That’s just a recipe for low cable viewership.


----------



## rbl85

The funny thing is if the rating is bas i will not be surprised but if the rating is good i will not be surprised either.

They're is arguments for both.


----------



## Dizzie

Vitamin R said:


> A fanbase "full of neckbeards" also describes WWE perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Face it, the kids and families left with Cena years ago.


Or worse nut jobs that become obsessed with female wrestlers and try to kidnap them.


----------



## kingfrass44

Vitamin R said:


> A fanbase "full of neckbeards" also describes WWE perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Face it, the kids and families left with Cena years ago.


full of neckbeards" also describes aew


----------



## RainmakerV2

Do numbers drop today or is it Monday?


----------



## One Shed

They get a bye this week. They were not in their normal time slot and not on their normal day. I did not know it would be airing at 3pm my time until yesterday morning. Did they say at any time on the previous show it would be approximately two hours early? I never heard it, just "after the game" like we are supposed to know exactly what time that means. Making your audience look stuff up costs viewers. At least for next Thursday they did say the time. I expect that one to do better but we will see.


----------



## fabi1982

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do numbers drop today or is it Monday?


Tuesday, looking at last Saturdays numbers release.


----------



## MrThortan

Was hoping to see the ratings today. This was the first Dynamite I have missed. I thought I could catch a PST time, but I think west/east coast aired at the same time. Sure I am not the only one.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ratings will be a wreck. 500k/.15 demo is my prediction.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DaveRA said:


> If that show doesn’t rate well it demonstrates there is little correlation between quality and popularity on tv.


Their isn't a correlation between quality and popularity, at least not right away, the idea is providing quality television consistently over the span of several months builds your base audience, which leads to future shows doing better in viewership, and hopefully those shows are good which will lead to more viewers coming in.

This weeks rating doesn't matter, it's a smackdown on FS1 situation, where it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## The Wood

Vitamin R said:


> A fanbase "full of neckbeards" also describes WWE perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


There’s that coveted 18-49 demo.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do numbers drop today or is it Monday?


Tuesday (i think)


----------



## Pippen94

TKO Wrestling said:


> Ratings will be a wreck. 500k/.15 demo is my prediction.


With lead in I think demo will be more but who knows


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> There’s that coveted 18-49 demo.


Feel free to post picture of yourself as you're so happy to judge others


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Feel free to post picture of yourself as you're so happy to judge others


Your side posted it, Pip. I’m just letting you know that is what you celebrate when you talk 18-49.


----------



## Aedubya

.88 is my guess


----------



## Erik.

I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near 700k just due to date and time.


----------



## PavelGaborik

sideon said:


> I'm going to say that Dynamite gets 977k.


At 6pm on Saturday? Lol I'm anticipating something around 550-600k


----------



## NathanMayberry

sideon said:


> I'm going to say that Dynamite gets 977k.


Why stop there? Why not go over a million?


----------



## Not Lying

I think they will do between 650k-800k, the usual hardcore will tune in.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Feel free to post picture of yourself as you're so happy to judge others


The irony of this coming from you, the man who regularly judges others and runs away every time when called on it...


----------



## reamstyles

Aedubya said:


> ?


From orange cassidy, to sammy guevarra, darby allin and to extent mjf, are seems to prefer, guys who can talk or have character more than their size and enzo is a colorful character and talker


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Should do 600 to 650

day shift and the delay - none of it good things

its normal twitter trend was also not strong - was only US number 1 for 1 hour


----------



## Klitschko

I anticipate a big number. Over 700k. The main reason is when the people in this thread speculate it will be a good rating, it turns out to be shit. But when everyone is predicting a bad rating then it usually ends up surprising everyone and we are all kind of shocked.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Klitschko said:


> I anticipate a big number. Over 700k. The main reason is when the people in this thread speculate it will be a good rating, it turns out to be shit. But when everyone is predicting a bad rating then it usually ends up surprising everyone and we are all kind of shocked.


How is 700k a big number? Its way below their average. That is what i'd expect them to get with the changes.


----------



## Geeee

I have no expectations, not only were they not in their regular timeslot but also, they got delayed 30 minutes by a foul-heavy basketball game. (ie if you were not a fan of either of the teams, you would probably turn this game off because it was bad)


----------



## RapShepard

So when do ratings drop


----------



## El Hammerstone

RapShepard said:


> So when do ratings drop


Tomorrow morning I hear


----------



## RapShepard

El Hammerstone said:


> Tomorrow morning I hear


That's weird lol


----------



## Chan Hung

Came for the ratings, but thanks for update that they are on Tuesday. AEW Dynamite i think on Saturday will do 575,000.


----------



## Mister Sinister

It shouldn't be below 700k. Despite the lackluster card (only the core knew the advertised card), it's not impossible for this to pull a freak rating because of the lead-in and different audience on Saturday.


----------



## IamMark

#5
755k
0.31


----------



## EmbassyForever

Very good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That is pretty good

basically confirms the hardcore base as what everybody thought

0.31 on the demo on a saturday is great actually


----------



## Erik.

That's not actually bad.


----------



## Prosper

755K wow. Even I didn’t watch live, bigger number than expected.

Thursday should do really well on cable with the fallout to Cody/Brodie.


----------



## Chan Hung

wow, not bad. i think thursdays show will do better than saturdays. as for this past rating..considering it was on a saturday and at an odd time..this was a good solid rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Almost beat UFC - i recon that is not insignificant


----------



## Not Lying

Very good rating. Similar to what's expected.


----------



## fabi1982

Respectable number, wasnt expecting that. Really interested in the quarter ratings to see how big the leadin was.


----------



## Geeee

For the sake of keeping the ratings war interesting, I'm willing to call this a W for NXT


----------



## rbl85

Geeee said:


> For the sake of keeping the ratings war interesting, I'm willing to call this a W for NXT


You know at one point a war need to stop


----------



## NathanMayberry

Geeee said:


> For the sake of keeping the ratings war interesting, I'm willing to call this a W for NXT


Careful the DEMO God Covid God is gonna create an account here to respond to you.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wow, great number given the time slot and day change, good shit.

Went against a large portion of takeover as well.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> You know at one point a war need to stop


I don't even consider it a "war" at this point. NXT is fucked up right now. Their biggest star Keith Lee got moved to the main roster, where they are doing their best to ruin him already, and their new NXT champion Karrion Kross is already injured. Then they are getting all the backlash from social media with people being angry about Velveteen Dream coming back after his allegations of him being a pedophile. There's no main event scene and the mid-card is un-interesting right now. And that's coming from a guy who's a fan of both products. 

This won't be a real competition again until WWE starts sending main roster talent down. I think there is a WWE Draft coming up so we may see guys like KO and Almas go back to NXT. Maybe they send Braun Strowman too.


----------



## Mike E

Number 5 in the top 150 is stellar. Especially when you take into account they were on at the same time as takeover 30.


----------



## Geeee

NathanMayberry said:


> Careful the DEMO God Covid God is gonna create an account here to respond to you.


I would consider it an honor to be trolled by Chris Jericho


----------



## The Wood

Slightly lower number than you’d expect, but it’s probably a good thing that they didn’t absolutely smash it. The negative to them doing amazing would have been that it makes a case for moving AEW permanently, which will only soften it quicker. You kind of wanted a SmackDown on FS1 thing, which this wasn’t completely. It did “fine.” It’ll make a case for however someone wants to view it.


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> I mean as in the show will start with millions idk what the rating will be I think they'll do their average of 700k I've learned it's best not to doubt their fans will support them.


Hey I was on the nose


----------



## Garty

That is a very surprising number of overall viewers and relatively steady demo stats. I thought they would be lucky to get 500,000. There was so much other competition on Saturday night, making that number all that more impressive. Of course, there will be a group of users here who will disagree with that "opinion", (shh now named Ozell & The Aussies shh) so put your rubber boots on because it's going to be messy walking around in their  later on. But I digress...

You had UFC prelims at 6PM, the NBA game running before and into AEW, more NBA on other networks, NHL on NBC, NXT pre-show at 6PM then going live with Takeover at 7PM, boxing on Fox at 8PM... that's a lot of sports to choose from in one night and respectfully, AEW was able to "hang with the big leagues".

Hey AEW, this TNT time and day switch was out of your hands and yes, it worked this once, but let's not do it again, okay?! At least not voluntarily. However, feel free to go ahead with a special Saturday night show one or two times a year. With proper promotion and a strong card, 750,000 is your viewer base-model to build upon.


----------



## imthegame19

I would say AEW passed TNT test. They could have put AEW on Thursday this week. Since there was no NBA on. But decided to put on Saturday between 5 and 6 for a reason.



That reason IMO was to test how AEW show would do in that time slot. Since they still did 755 and .31 in 18 to 49 against competition. I have a feeling they will be announcing 2nd show one hour show for Saturday at 6 or 7 eastern time in the next few weeks.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298289461558616065


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geeee said:


> For the sake of keeping the ratings war interesting, I'm willing to call this a W for NXT


Lol - yeah, why not

congrats NXT - hope there’s dancing in the halls


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> I would say AEW passed TNT test. They could have put AEW on Thursday this week. Since there was no NBA on. But decided to put on Saturday between 5 and 6 for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> That reason IMO was to test how AEW show would do in that time slot. Since they still did 755 and .31 in 18 to 49 against competition. I have a feeling they will be announcing 2nd show one hour show for Saturday at 6 or 7 eastern time in the next few weeks.


 I think you are 100% correct


----------



## Bryan Jericho

Would have expected more honestly. Can't say people were forced to choose that or Takeover, because you can watch Takeover whenever you want on the network. But prepare for Jericho and his "The 18-49 demographic..." lol


----------



## 10gizzle

I really wonder how many other people there were like me who only saw it way later that night.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Bryan Jericho said:


> Would have expected more honestly. Can't say people were forced to choose that or Takeover, because you can watch Takeover whenever you want on the network. But prepare for Jericho and his "The 18-49 demographic..." lol


That just doesn't fit the majority of fans for every promotion. Watching it live, especially with twitter being the force it is now, is almost the only way to watch it. I figure 70% of the audiences for wrestling watch it live.


----------



## DOTL

Surprised. Pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't even consider it a "war" at this point. NXT is fucked up right now. Their biggest star Keith Lee got moved to the main roster, where they are doing their best to ruin him already, and their new NXT champion Karrion Kross is already injured. Then they are getting all the backlash from social media with people being angry about Velveteen Dream coming back after his allegations of him being a pedophile. There's no main event scene and the mid-card is un-interesting right now. And that's coming from a guy who's a fan of both products.


Doesn't seem that different to AEW.

- AEW's biggest star is playing around with a comedy character whilst AEW and Jericho himself do their best to try and ruin Jericho.

- Their current AEW Champion Jon Moxley is viewed as a poor choice of champion by a majority of the fan base for a number of different reasons ranging from not being that interesting (The more negative folk) to being hindered by the COVID-19 "era" (The more positive folk)

- Main event scene and midcard is uninteresting with very little to get excited about except MJF who is brilliant.



3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298289461558616065


Interesting. Most wrestling shows on the independent level are hosted on Saturday nights and are successful. I get it from a TV perspective, people are out and doing their thing on most Saturday nights but seems odd that live wrestling does best on a Saturday night in an arena whilst it's an awful TV night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All hail 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298310788936073218


----------



## K4L318

that is actually good fam. 

They building.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Doesn't seem that different to AEW.
> 
> - AEW's biggest star is playing around with a comedy character whilst AEW and Jericho himself do their best to try and ruin Jericho.
> 
> - Their current AEW Champion Jon Moxley is viewed as a poor choice of champion by a majority of the fan base for a number of different reasons ranging from not being that interesting (The more negative folk) to being hindered by the COVID-19 "era" (The more positive folk)
> 
> - Main event scene and midcard is uninteresting with very little to get excited about except MJF who is brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Most wrestling shows on the independent level are hosted on Saturday nights and are successful. I get it from a TV perspective, people are out and doing their thing on most Saturday nights but seems odd that live wrestling does best on a Saturday night in an arena whilst it's an awful TV night.


Well Chip you don't watch RAW or NXT so you would have no idea what I mean when I say NXT is "f'ed up" and you would have no idea how both situations are different.

-Whilst I do agree that Jericho doesn't look good right now, he's winding down at 50 yrs old and you have Mox, MJF, Hangman, Omega, Cody, PAC, etc in the main event scene that you can switch in and out. You have Sammy, Darby, Jungle Boy who are being groomed. If Jericho doesn't look good now, I fully trust them to make him look good again. I can't trust Vince. And Moxley is now their biggest star, not Jericho. In RAW's case they have no one except for McIntyre, Orton who is most likely going back to a part time schedule after Edge, and now Keith Lee, who they are changing up already. No one is being groomed for the main event and no one is credible. AEW doesn't have nearly enough of a history of a terrible main event scene, barely any actually, for you to equate them to WWE.

-Your comments on Moxley are laughable. "Viewed as a poor choice of champion by the majority of the fanbase". That doesn't deserve the time it takes for a full, lengthy response.

-Very little to get excited about? MJF vs Moxley has been great. After that, you have Hangman and Omega becoming singles stars and you have the Horsemen forming. You have PAC eventually coming back, Wardlow possibly breaking from MJF, Cody maybe going heel, Blood and Guts next year, etc. How is that little to get excited about? The only ones that aren't excited for the future AEW main event scene are people who are not actual fans of the product or its talent. You can't just take one bad program between Jericho/OC and say that all of AEW's uppercard scene is bad thereby conveniently forgetting the great Cody/Jericho, Hangman/Jericho, Moxley/Jericho, Jericho/Omega, & Omega/Moxley feuds.

-The mid-card has consisted most recently of the tag division with FTR's heel turn, Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin, Santana/Ortiz picking up steam, Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara, Thunder Rosa challenging, Eddie Kingston forming a stable, Brodie Lee winning the TNT Title, and Cody's open challenge as of late. NONE of that has been interesting to you? How? What do you want my guy?


----------



## Chan Hung

Add to that gotta give AEW some credit, they did a title change on a Saturday afternoon/evening where they likely knew not a lot of people would watch potentially. So for them doing something rather 'big' in their storylines, showed their willingness to take a chance and reward the fan who saw it that day.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well Chip you don't watch RAW or NXT so you would have no idea what I mean when I say NXT is "f'ed up" and you would have no idea how both situations are different.
> 
> -Whilst I do agree that Jericho doesn't look good right now, he's winding down at 50 yrs old and you have Mox, MJF, Hangman, Omega, Cody, PAC, etc in the main event scene that you can switch in and out. You have Sammy, Darby, Jungle Boy who are being groomed. If Jericho doesn't look good now, I fully trust them to make him look good again. I can't trust Vince. And Moxley is now their biggest star, not Jericho. In RAW's case they have no one except for McIntyre, Orton who is most likely going back to a part time schedule after Edge, and now Keith Lee, who they are changing up already. No one is being groomed for the main event and no one is credible. AEW doesn't have nearly enough of a history of a terrible main event scene, barely any actually, for you to equate them to WWE.
> 
> -Your comments on Moxley are laughable. "Viewed as a poor choice of champion by the majority of the fanbase". That doesn't deserve the time it takes for a full, lengthy response.
> 
> -Very little to get excited about? MJF vs Moxley has been great. After that, you have Hangman and Omega becoming singles stars and you have the Horsemen forming. You have PAC eventually coming back, Wardlow possibly breaking from MJF, Cody maybe going heel, Blood and Guts next year, etc. How is that little to get excited about? The only ones that aren't excited for the future AEW main event scene are people who are not actual fans of the product or its talent. You can't just take one bad program between Jericho/OC and say that all of AEW's uppercard scene is bad thereby conveniently forgetting the great Cody/Jericho, Hangman/Jericho, Moxley/Jericho, Jericho/Omega, & Omega/Moxley feuds.
> 
> -The mid-card has consisted most recently of the tag division with FTR's heel turn, Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin, Santana/Ortiz picking up steam, Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara, Thunder Rosa challenging, Eddie Kingston forming a stable, Brodie Lee winning the TNT Title, and Cody's open challenge as of late. NONE of that has been interesting to you? How? What do you want my guy?


You and all your making sense gonna ruin chips little hissy fit.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Put this into perspective....

Bellator lost viewers just from their channel changing names.....no different day, no different timeslot literally they changed from SPIKE to Paramount and lost fans lol.

For AEW to put up such solid numbers is very impressive cheers guys!!!


----------



## TripleG

AEW had a lot going against it with the different night and things like NBA, UFC, and NXT TakeOver to draw away from it. 

Overall, this was probably about as good as could be expected.


----------



## imthegame19

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well Chip you don't watch RAW or NXT so you would have no idea what I mean when I say NXT is "f'ed up" and you would have no idea how both situations are different.
> 
> -Whilst I do agree that Jericho doesn't look good right now, he's winding down at 50 yrs old and you have Mox, MJF, Hangman, Omega, Cody, PAC, etc in the main event scene that you can switch in and out. You have Sammy, Darby, Jungle Boy who are being groomed. If Jericho doesn't look good now, I fully trust them to make him look good again. I can't trust Vince. And Moxley is now their biggest star, not Jericho. In RAW's case they have no one except for McIntyre, Orton who is most likely going back to a part time schedule after Edge, and now Keith Lee, who they are changing up already. No one is being groomed for the main event and no one is credible. AEW doesn't have nearly enough of a history of a terrible main event scene, barely any actually, for you to equate them to WWE.
> 
> -Your comments on Moxley are laughable. "Viewed as a poor choice of champion by the majority of the fanbase". That doesn't deserve the time it takes for a full, lengthy response.
> 
> -Very little to get excited about? MJF vs Moxley has been great. After that, you have Hangman and Omega becoming singles stars and you have the Horsemen forming. You have PAC eventually coming back, Wardlow possibly breaking from MJF, Cody maybe going heel, Blood and Guts next year, etc. How is that little to get excited about? The only ones that aren't excited for the future AEW main event scene are people who are not actual fans of the product or its talent. You can't just take one bad program between Jericho/OC and say that all of AEW's uppercard scene is bad thereby conveniently forgetting the great Cody/Jericho, Hangman/Jericho, Moxley/Jericho, Jericho/Omega, & Omega/Moxley feuds.
> 
> -The mid-card has consisted most recently of the tag division with FTR's heel turn, Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin, Santana/Ortiz picking up steam, Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara, Thunder Rosa challenging, Eddie Kingston forming a stable, Brodie Lee winning the TNT Title, and Cody's open challenge as of late. NONE of that has been interesting to you? How? What do you want my guy?


Wow I can't see Chip comments anymore. Since I put him on ignore after he went off the rails with idiotic comments. But it appears he's gotten even worse. He's someone the mods just need to ban for life for his own personal well being lol. Him watching AEW and feelings he gets from it to say the things. Must be like stabbing himself in the balls. I really don't know what people waste their life hate watching something. Then go on message board and waste their life more complaining about it. With the Wood and others on this forum all in the same boat.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well Chip you don't watch RAW or NXT so you would have no idea what I mean when I say NXT is "f'ed up" and you would have no idea how both situations are different.
> 
> -Whilst I do agree that Jericho doesn't look good right now, he's winding down at 50 yrs old and you have Mox, MJF, Hangman, Omega, Cody, PAC, etc in the main event scene that you can switch in and out. You have Sammy, Darby, Jungle Boy who are being groomed. If Jericho doesn't look good now, I fully trust them to make him look good again. I can't trust Vince. And Moxley is now their biggest star, not Jericho. In RAW's case they have no one except for McIntyre, Orton who is most likely going back to a part time schedule after Edge, and now Keith Lee, who they are changing up already. No one is being groomed for the main event and no one is credible. AEW doesn't have nearly enough of a history of a terrible main event scene, barely any actually, for you to equate them to WWE.
> 
> -Your comments on Moxley are laughable. "Viewed as a poor choice of champion by the majority of the fanbase". That doesn't deserve the time it takes for a full, lengthy response.
> 
> -Very little to get excited about? MJF vs Moxley has been great. After that, you have Hangman and Omega becoming singles stars and you have the Horsemen forming. You have PAC eventually coming back, Wardlow possibly breaking from MJF, Cody maybe going heel, Blood and Guts next year, etc. How is that little to get excited about? The only ones that aren't excited for the future AEW main event scene are people who are not actual fans of the product or its talent. You can't just take one bad program between Jericho/OC and say that all of AEW's uppercard scene is bad thereby conveniently forgetting the great Cody/Jericho, Hangman/Jericho, Moxley/Jericho, Jericho/Omega, & Omega/Moxley feuds.
> 
> -The mid-card has consisted most recently of the tag division with FTR's heel turn, Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin, Santana/Ortiz picking up steam, Matt Hardy vs Sammy Guevara, Thunder Rosa challenging, Eddie Kingston forming a stable, Brodie Lee winning the TNT Title, and Cody's open challenge as of late. NONE of that has been interesting to you? How? What do you want my guy?


Some good points here. Let me hit some of them.

- I don't view Hangman or Omega as main event players in AEW yet and to be honest I don't even class MJF in there just yet either (Will see what they do with him after the PPV and in 2021). I don't see the grooming of Jungle Boy or Sammy yet and whilst Darby has wrestled a few of the big names and been competitive he's never won so it's hard to class him as a guy being groomed for a main event spot soon also. Fair enough on not trusting Vince but can you trust AEW and Tony Khan? They're the ones who ruined Jericho in the first place and thought it would be good business to put Orange Cassidy with him. Like it or not Jericho is the biggest star AEW has he's the only "household name" that they have under contract although I will agree that Moxley is probably a bigger hit with the wrestling fans (But AEW will draw them anyway)

- Comments on Mox are laughable, how so? I got that viewpoint from the thread made about him just a couple days ago. Have a read:









How do you feel about Moxley's reign?


personally as a fan of Mox hes been underwhelming as champ and it mirrors his wwe championship reign in 2016. I know he needs to play off a crowd but if anyone needed a crowd it was Drew and hes been outstanding from his promo work to his ring work What are your thoughts?




www.wrestlingforum.com





Many fans in there describing his run as "underwhelming", "not as good as Jericho's run", "awful", "failure", "Far better as challenger". Even you yourself say in that very thread that his reign was initially weak. Maybe "Majority of the fanbase" is the wrong statement to make but the fanbase that I come into contact with (Mainly you guys) don't seem to think he's particularly great.

- MJF Vs Moxley has been solid I wouldn't say great but it's definitely the best feud Mox has had since winning the belt, Hangman and Omega I agree is exciting especially if it's Kenny turning, Horsemen reforming I've seen like 5-6 times before and AEW won't be the guys to do it justice, PAC coming back is good, Wardlow breaking from MJF I couldn't care less about, Cody heel turn same as Wardlow, blood and guts yeah cool. 

It's not just one bad story for Jericho I think it's two in a row now. Hardy/Jericho was awful and Jericho/Cassidy is awful. Sure, doesn't undo the prior stuff but 2020 for Jericho has been more bad than good.

- FTR have become just another team on the roster which is a shame because I like them, Starks hasn't wrestled on TV in a month, don't give a hoot about Santana/Ortiz and their feud over Trent's mum's minivan, I also don't care about Matt Hardy in 2020 and feel Sammy is worth more. Thunder Rosa and Eddie Kingston are both fine by me but alas I do not care about the most boring man in wrestling in Brodie Lee.

---

So from my reply you will find I'm about 50-50 on AEW. Some of the shit they're doing is good, some of the shit is in the middle and some of the shit is bad. I guarantee I could make a very similar post about NXT (If I watched it) as well though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> Wow I can't see Chip comments anymore. Since I put him on ignore after he went off the rails with idiotic comments. But it appears he's gotten even worse. He's someone the mods just need to ban for life for his own personal well being lol. Him watching AEW and feelings he gets from it to say the things. Must be like stabbing himself in the balls. I really don't know what people waste their life hate watching something. Then go on message board and waste their life more complaining about it. With the Wood and others on this forum all in the same boat.


"I disagree with his views therefore I want him banned FOR LIFE!"

Where does this come from? It's certainly not something people on the "Eh, AEW could be better" side subscribe to. What is with a lot of the AEW loyalists just trying to point blank silence anyone who has a negative opinion on the product?


----------



## One Shed

imthegame19 said:


> I would say AEW passed TNT test. They could have put AEW on Thursday this week. Since there was no NBA on. But decided to put on Saturday between 5 and 6 for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> That reason IMO was to test how AEW show would do in that time slot. Since they still did 755 and .31 in 18 to 49 against competition. I have a feeling they will be announcing 2nd show one hour show for Saturday at 6 or 7 eastern time in the next few weeks.


I think this is correct. A one hour Saturday night show could work. It could function like Sunday Night Heat did back in the day, and like Heat would function as the lead in show when they happened to also have a PPV that night.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> I think this is correct. A one hour Saturday night show could work. It could function like Sunday Night Heat did back in the day, and like Heat would function as the lead in show when they happened to also have a PPV that night.


Yep that's exactly what I expect them to do. They will probably do 2 or 3 matches and promos with top talent. So say if Moxley or Cody or Omega dont do much on Dynamite one week. They can do stuff on Saturday show. Or say Archer or Cage haven't gotten on tv. They can have them do stuff on Saturday show. With AEW roster size they need third hour bad. Especially when you consider male wrestler wise their roster is about same size as Raw and Smackdown with 3 hours less of tv.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Good rating for the timeslot. Wrestling rating has been trending upwards and the think the products are all improving too.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> - Their current AEW Champion Jon Moxley is viewed as a poor choice of champion *by a majority of the fan base* for a number of different reasons ranging from not being that interesting (The more negative folk) to being hindered by the COVID-19 "era" (The more positive folk)


you're so full of shit.


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> Wow I can't see Chip comments anymore. Since I put him on ignore after he went off the rails with idiotic comments. But it appears he's gotten even worse. He's someone the mods just need to ban for life for his own personal well being lol. Him watching AEW and feelings he gets from it to say the things. Must be like stabbing himself in the balls. I really don't know what people waste their life hate watching something. Then go on message board and waste their life more complaining about it. With the Wood and others on this forum all in the same boat.


Lol Chip isn't bad, I enjoy a lot of his posts. Cult is cool too. I don't usually block people on here unless they are flat out hating on Becky Lynch or in rare cases like The Wood or The Draw. Those 2 had to be blocked, not even because of their negativity, but because they are legit mental cases who actually want AEW to fail and die, and I'm not tolerating that hateful bullshit when I come onto WF. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Some good points here. Let me hit some of them.
> 
> - I don't view Hangman or Omega as main event players in AEW yet and to be honest I don't even class MJF in there just yet either (Will see what they do with him after the PPV and in 2021). I don't see the grooming of Jungle Boy or Sammy yet and whilst Darby has wrestled a few of the big names and been competitive he's never won so it's hard to class him as a guy being groomed for a main event spot soon also. Fair enough on not trusting Vince but can you trust AEW and Tony Khan? They're the ones who ruined Jericho in the first place and thought it would be good business to put Orange Cassidy with him. Like it or not Jericho is the biggest star AEW has he's the only "household name" that they have under contract although I will agree that Moxley is probably a bigger hit with the wrestling fans (But AEW will draw them anyway)
> 
> - Comments on Mox are laughable, how so? I got that viewpoint from the thread made about him just a couple days ago. Have a read:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about Moxley's reign?
> 
> 
> personally as a fan of Mox hes been underwhelming as champ and it mirrors his wwe championship reign in 2016. I know he needs to play off a crowd but if anyone needed a crowd it was Drew and hes been outstanding from his promo work to his ring work What are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many fans in there describing his run as "underwhelming", "not as good as Jericho's run", "awful", "failure", "Far better as challenger". Even you yourself say in that very thread that his reign was initially weak. Maybe "Majority of the fanbase" is the wrong statement to make but the fanbase that I come into contact with (Mainly you guys) don't seem to think he's particularly great.
> 
> - MJF Vs Moxley has been solid I wouldn't say great but it's definitely the best feud Mox has had since winning the belt, Hangman and Omega I agree is exciting especially if it's Kenny turning, Horsemen reforming I've seen like 5-6 times before and AEW won't be the guys to do it justice, PAC coming back is good, Wardlow breaking from MJF I couldn't care less about, Cody heel turn same as Wardlow, blood and guts yeah cool.
> 
> It's not just one bad story for Jericho I think it's two in a row now. Hardy/Jericho was awful and Jericho/Cassidy is awful. Sure, doesn't undo the prior stuff but 2020 for Jericho has been more bad than good.
> 
> - FTR have become just another team on the roster which is a shame because I like them, Starks hasn't wrestled on TV in a month, don't give a hoot about Santana/Ortiz and their feud over Trent's mum's minivan, I also don't care about Matt Hardy in 2020 and feel Sammy is worth more. Thunder Rosa and Eddie Kingston are both fine by me but alas I do not care about the most boring man in wrestling in Brodie Lee.
> 
> ---
> 
> So from my reply you will find I'm about 50-50 on AEW. Some of the shit they're doing is good, some of the shit is in the middle and some of the shit is bad. I guarantee I could make a very similar post about NXT (If I watched it) as well though.


Considering you elaborated on what you liked and didn't like, this is fair. I wouldn't go as far as saying as fact that AEW's main event and mid-card is un-interesting or bad though, its just more of your personal preferences. 85% of AEW compared to all the good that we have gotten in the history of wrestling is pretty damn close in quality. The only difference is the star power. Of course they don't have gigantic stars like Hogan, Flair, SCSA and Goldberg, but as far as angles and storylines, its just as good. No one is writing Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad level TV here and they never have. 

I can trust AEW and Tony so far. IMO, 85%+ of AEW has been great since its inception. And its only been a year. They have done a lot of great shit and they have a lot of great shit coming up as far as major angles and storylines that have me legit pumped as a wrestling fan. Haven't felt that way since Becky got over in 2018 and before that I haven't had that passion since the HBK vs HHH feud back in 2004. They haven't done much of anything outside of Jericho/OC and Matt Hardy teleporting that has pissed me off. They even changed my mind on Brodie Lee. What an awesome and shocking main event that was with Cody. There is still work that needs to be done and DO is not all of a sudden great after just one night, but that alone made a huge difference. I am extremely confident that guys like Cage, Jericho, and Archer will look great again and will be involved in high profile programs. Even then, they don't even look bad now, (Archer and Cage that is) they're just directionless because AEW doesn't have any major babyfaces to feud with these guys right now.

I read through the Moxley thread, to me it seemed like most understood that it was impossible for him to have an awesome reign considering the circumstances, but he still had great matches with Cage and Brodie, with a good feud with MJF ensuing. I wouldn't say that everyone or most of the fanbase thinks he's a "poor" champion though. He's their top draw as far as cable audiences.

Hardy/Jericho wasn't a feud, they just had a couple of talking segments before the rest of the Elite and IC got involved leading into Stadium Stampede. Jericho/OC is awful though I do agree. It'll finally come to an end at All Out, but it has gone on far too long.

You don't know that AEW won't do the Horsemen justice lol, again there is no long history of bad to suggest that they will fuck it up. There's more evidence that it will be an awesome angle. FTR feel like the top team, they have Tully, they're feuding with Omega/Page and are going to be part of the Horsemen. They hardly feel like "just another team".


----------



## Shleppy

Amazing work by AEW all things considered

It's sad that so called pro wrestling fans want AEW to fail so bad after WWE's almost 20 year monopoly and these same people will never give the AEW any credit, just nothing but negative comments

So many haters, if you hate AEW then just stop watching it, why give it ratings?


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## NathanMayberry

Whoanma said:


>


Its pretty cool how they swap from viewers (Meltzer said minute by minute Jericho vs Cassidy supposedly had 1 million viewers and everyone was like ooohhhhaaaa freshly squeezed!!!) but now its all about the demo score.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> Its pretty cool how they swap from viewers (Meltzer said minute by minute Jericho vs Cassidy supposedly had 1 million viewers and everyone was like ooohhhhaaaa freshly squeezed!!!) but now its all about the demo score.


I hate to call it out because it makes me look combative but you're 100% right. Last week it was all about minute by minute ratings now this week we've returned to caring about the overall rating plus demographic again.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NathanMayberry said:


> Its pretty cool how they swap from viewers (Meltzer said minute by minute Jericho vs Cassidy supposedly had 1 million viewers and everyone was like ooohhhhaaaa freshly squeezed!!!) but now its all about the demo score.


He mentions minute by minute when it's relevant and says something important. He mentioned it for Lee/Cole, and Lumis/Dain too, it's not an AEW exclusive thing.

This rating is a pretty big success, comparatively speaking to Smackdown that fell of a fucking cliff when they moved to FS1 for a week(mind you with a loaded show with Flair and Hogan), this is a home-run.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I hate to call it out because it makes me look combative but you're 100% right. Last week it was all about minute by minute ratings now this week we've returned to caring about the overall rating plus demographic again.


almost like we’re biased fans on an AEW fan forum?

we’ll happily highlight any win, and why shouldn’t we? There’s enough people that highlight every loss or misstep

c’mon chippers, if you want impartiality, read a newspaper


----------



## taker1986

Started off with over a million then dropped, I guess to watch takeover or NBA.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Oh god, Q6 and Q7 were the women's tag finals right? They absolutely murdered the viewership, good that Brodie/Cody rebounded pretty strong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’d be shocked if that mil actually watched more than 2 min before switching over to the other game that was starting


----------



## rbl85

The first quarter dropped because most of those people never intended to watch Dynamite.
The second quarter is probably close to what would have been the Q1 without the nba before.

Also what was in Q6 and Q7 ?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Outside of the opening quarter, I believe Q3 was the 8 man tag, so they did the best.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The first quarter dropped because most of those people never intended to watch Dynamite.
> The second quarter is close probably close to what would have been the Q1 without the nba before.
> 
> Also what was in Q6 and Q7 ?


 Women’s tag

wonder why people are still shocked the women only get 5 min. build them on youtube and dark first


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Oh, Q3 was also top of the hour, so I don't know how much credence I would put to that, can't really look into these quarter hours that much with the weird start time.


----------



## imthegame19

Here are the very misleading quarter breakdowns. 


AEW Dynamite quarter-hour breakdown from Sat, Aug 22:

P2+ (total audience)
Q1 1002kkk
Q2 724
Q3 791
Q4 767
Q5 712
Q6 666
Q7 640
Q8 738

P18-49 (key demo)
Q1 575k
Q2 416
Q3 444
Q4 423
Q5 386
Q6 361
Q7 288
Q8 356

F2+ and M2+ also in this graph: https://t.co/Vbhvy8q1tL

I believe first quarter was FTR vs Private Party and Mox promo was in quarter 1. But again that quarter had great lead in. Not to mention Take over just got started.


----------



## Pippen94

__





WARNERMEDIA THRILLED WITH AEW'S WEEKEND NUMBERS, CODY UPDATE, BUCKS' AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND MORE AEW NEWS | PWInsider.com







www.pwinsider.com


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’d be shocked if that mil actually watched more than 2 min before switching over to the other game that was starting





RelivingTheShadow said:


> Outside of the opening quarter, I believe Q3 was the 8 man tag, so they did the best.


8 man tag + the beginning or the angle with Jericho and Orange


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> I believe first quarter was FTR vs Private Party and Mox promo was in quarter 1. But again that quarter had great lead in. Not to mention Take over just got started.


Mox promo is in the Q2

The worst was the women tag match and the quarter with Darby.

In the end the first quarter didn't boost that much the overall number because if you don't count the first quarter, the show did 720K.

So even without the nba lead in but with a "normal" lead in we can assume that Q1 would have done around 730-740K. The show did a pretty good jobb retaining the viewers


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Mox promo is in the Q2
> 
> The worst was the women tag match and the quarter with Darby.
> 
> In the end the first quarter didn't boost that much the overall number because if you don't count the first quarter, the show did 720K.
> 
> So even without the nba lead in but with a "normal" lead in we can assume that Q1 would have done around 730-740K. The show did a pretty good jobb retaining the viewers


Considering this show ran against NXT(and strong NXT with PPV). The rating is really good. Next two weeks ratings will be really interesting.


----------



## Garty

Pippen94 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WARNERMEDIA THRILLED WITH AEW'S WEEKEND NUMBERS, CODY UPDATE, BUCKS' AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND MORE AEW NEWS | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com


Shhhhh! You might wake up the other users in your country... and nobody wants that!? Shhhhh!


----------



## Y2K23

Pippen94 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WARNERMEDIA THRILLED WITH AEW'S WEEKEND NUMBERS, CODY UPDATE, BUCKS' AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND MORE AEW NEWS | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com


Good for them. A year ago they promised a true wrestling alternative and they are delivering on that promise tremendously.

AEW has been a massive sucess and anyone arguing the contrary is simply in denial.

Great times to be a wrestling fan once again.


----------



## kingfrass44

RelivingTheShadow said:


> He mentions minute by minute when it's relevant and says something important. He mentioned it for Lee/Cole, and Lumis/Dain too, it's not an AEW exclusive thing.
> 
> This rating is a pretty big success, comparatively speaking to Smackdown that fell of a fucking cliff when they moved to FS1 for a week(mind you with a loaded show with Flair and Hogan), this is a home-run.


You wrong


----------



## Prosper

Yeah no way the show started off with a million actual wrestling fans on cable on a Saturday. The NBA playoffs just ended and all those people were led into the show. Then another game started afterwards.

Good consistency throughout the show though, but the women really made a lot of cable people tune out.



Pippen94 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WARNERMEDIA THRILLED WITH AEW'S WEEKEND NUMBERS, CODY UPDATE, BUCKS' AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND MORE AEW NEWS | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com


Really good news, this kind of kills the theories that the new executives could possibly cancel AEW due to not wanting wrestling on the portfolio of the show.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The fact WWE has any geeks left still watching Raw, and then trolling this thread is hilarious to me. What did WWE do to you guys to create such loyal fans?


----------



## Randy Lahey

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh god, Q6 and Q7 were the women's tag finals right? They absolutely murdered the viewership, good that Brodie/Cody rebounded pretty strong.


The quicker AEW gets rid of all their women's wresting, the quicker they will overtake Raw. Khan needs to stop playing the "everyone gets a trophy". game.or in this case "everyone gets to wrestle", and give the audience what they want to see: Men wrestling, women being eyecandy/managers/shittalkers, and the rest will fall into place.


----------



## Prosper

Randy Lahey said:


> The quicker AEW gets rid of all their women's wresting, the quicker they will overtake Raw. Khan needs to stop playing the "everyone gets a trophy". game.or in this case "everyone gets to wrestle", and give the audience what they want to see: Men wrestling, women being eyecandy/managers/shittalkers, and the rest will fall into place.


Much too late for that. Women's wrestling is a major thing now especially after the 4HW and the whole Becky/Rousey situation that main evented Mania. TNA also had a great division and Tessa Blanchard is a huge star. AEW would catch a lot of shit if they stopped pushing it. There are a lot of people who love women's wrestling, even though it may drive cable viewers away some weeks. Shida has drawn good numbers on cable before. Just depends on people's preferences.


----------



## imthegame19

Right now if you look at tvguide for September 5th. TNT has one hour AEW show listed from 430 to 530 central time. 

www.tvguide.com/listings/


All Out is this night but it appears TNT putting hour show on TNT that day too. Ideally it would be on at 5 to 6 central leading into the buy in show. But NBA is on that night on TNT and starts at 530. So could be starting half hour early for that reason. So could this be debut of the new one hour show with normal time being 5pm central or 6pm central time?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> almost like we’re biased fans on an AEW fan forum?
> 
> we’ll happily highlight any win, and why shouldn’t we? There’s enough people that highlight every loss or misstep
> 
> c’mon chippers, if you want impartiality, read a newspaper


At least you admit it. Most won't.




imthegame19 said:


> Right now if you look at tvguide for September 5th. TNT has one hour AEW show listed from 430 to 530 central time. Now keep in mind that All Out countdown show is already scheduled after Dynamite on 9/2
> 
> www.tvguide.com/listings/
> 
> 
> All Out is this night but it appears TNT putting hour show on TNT that day too. Ideally it would be on at 5 to 6 central leading into the buy in show. But NBA is on that night on TNT. So could be starting half hour early for that reason. So could this be debut of the new one hour show with normal time being 5pm central or 6pm central time?


I'd be in favour of this. I love short wrestling shows.


----------



## DaSlacker

prosperwithdeen said:


> Much too late for that. Women's wrestling is a major thing now especially after the 4HW and the whole Becky/Rousey situation that main evented Mania. TNA also had a great division and Tessa Blanchard is a huge star. AEW would catch a lot of shit if they stopped pushing it. There are a lot of people who love women's wrestling, even though it may drive cable viewers away some weeks. Shida has drawn good numbers on cable before. Just depends on people's preferences.


In hindsight it might have been best to give the women their own weekly show on YouTube instead of running AEW Dark. Until they developed a stronger division. The best stuff or rapid squash matches used on Dark would replace the women's segments on Dynamite.

I mean, the likes of Janela and Luther having 8 minute matches with Avalon and Stunt achieves nothing. At least a female only show generates a bit of positive PR whilst acting as a developmental platform.


----------



## 3venflow

Are the WWE women proven draws and money makers?

Because they just seem to be a drain on the AEW product at the moment.

Nearly every successful era in American wrestling history had minimal women's wrestling. WCW barely bothered with it, WWE focused more on the T&A aspect in the Attitude era.

I understand we're in a new era now where there must be 'inclusion' for everyone, but is it necessary to commit a lot of time and effort to women's wrestling?

If AEW think the women's division can be a positive, then fine, but they should sign some big hitters because what they have isn't going to be enough. AEW has a male roster that can more than compete with WWE's, but there is a big gap between the female rosters (although I think Britt has as much charisma as anyone).


----------



## SZilla25

DaSlacker said:


> In hindsight it might have been best to give the women their own weekly show on YouTube instead of running AEW Dark. Until they developed a stronger division. The best stuff or rapid squash matches used on Dark would replace the women's segments on Dynamite.
> 
> I mean, the likes of Janela and Luther having 8 minute matches with Avalon and Stunt achieves nothing. At least a female only show generates a bit of positive PR whilst acting as a developmental platform.


The problem with that though is no one predicted that half of the women's roster would be unavailable due to a worldwide pandemic. Even with Britt and Statlander getting injured, the women's division might've been doing better had they had Riho, Shanna, Bea, & Yuka around and in programs.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Are the WWE women proven draws and money makers?
> 
> Because they just seem to be a drain on the AEW product at the moment.
> 
> Nearly every successful era in American wrestling history had minimal women's wrestling. WCW barely bothered with it, WWE focused more on the T&A aspect in the Attitude era.
> 
> I understand we're in a new era now where there must be 'inclusion' for everyone, but is it necessary to commit a lot of time and effort to women's wrestling?
> 
> If AEW think the women's division can be a positive, then fine, but they should sign some big hitters because what they have isn't going to be enough. AEW has a male roster that can more than compete with WWE's, but there is a big gap between the female rosters (although I think Britt has as much charisma as anyone).


Yeah in WWE they’re not draws but they do make them good money from the audience they already have. Becky Lynch was their top merch seller before she left and Sasha Banks sells merch like crazy too. Bayley was huge with little kids when she was a babyface and some people regard the Sasha/Bayley Takeover match as MOTY that year. Sasha Banks also draws heavily within the parameters of NXT’s audience. They’re not bringing in new viewers though. No one is for that matter.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

From what little I know - i would recon Charlotte, Becky, Sasha and Bailey are draws

hell, even i watched THAT main event

a draw outside of those 4? I recon not so much

i do know there is a group that only likes women’s wrestling - so, they are a draw there

i also know casual women will react more to women’s wrestling (my wife loved Rache chanel of all people) - so there is that


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

imthegame19 said:


> Right now if you look at tvguide for September 5th. TNT has one hour AEW show listed from 430 to 530 central time.
> 
> www.tvguide.com/listings/
> 
> 
> All Out is this night but it appears TNT putting hour show on TNT that day too. Ideally it would be on at 5 to 6 central leading into the buy in show. But NBA is on that night on TNT and starts at 530. So could be starting half hour early for that reason. So could this be debut of the new one hour show with normal time being 5pm central or 6pm central time?


Pretty sure that's countdown to All Out.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> From what little I know - i would recon Charlotte, Becky, Sasha and Bailey are draws
> 
> hell, even i watched THAT main event
> 
> a draw outside of those 4? I recon not so much
> 
> i do know there is a group that only likes women’s wrestling - so, they are a draw there
> 
> i also know casual women will react more to women’s wrestling (*my wife loved Rache chanel of all people*) - so there is that


Maybe time to find an other one.


----------



## 304418

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Oh god, Q6 and Q7 were the women's tag finals right? They absolutely murdered the viewership, good that Brodie/Cody rebounded pretty strong.


Why is the fault being placed on the women’s match? AEW started with 1M viewers thanks to the NBA Playoff lead in, and those viewers stuck around to watch FTR vs Private Party, and then Mox’s promo on MJF. After the commercial break, when MJF gave his promo, and Butcher & Blade, Lucha Bros, Jurassic Express, and Natural Nightmares came out, 300K fans had changed the channel.

Blame either Mox’s promo, or the MJF promo & the 8 man tag for murdering the viewership for the rest of the evening. All that was left for the rest of the show was AEW's core audience.


----------



## rbl85

The women segments are not doing well at all with the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They sabotaged the hell out of the women's match. The whole middle third of the match was during a 5-minute picture-in-picture commercial break. They don't know how to time their breaks, or they are intentionally trying to push down the women's numbers by completely failing the division at every avenue. What female star has appeared regularly, every week? The injured Brit Baker. That is the only one. They aren't building stars/franchises in the women's division, and the rumors are they are going to let WWE scoop up Tessa Blanchard.

If you're facing a commercial break, throw out a 5-minute match or a segment/brawl/interview, go to commercial and then start the title match after the break.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Women should be valets or associated with a male. Sable was with Marc Mero, Sunny was a manager, Debra was a manger, Woman, and ofcourse Miss Elizabeth. Even Chyna was always associated with a male.

These women were the biggest female stars women wrestling was huge.


----------



## kingfrass44

Mister Sinister said:


> They sabotaged the hell out of the women's match. The whole middle third of the match was during a 5-minute picture-in-picture commercial break. They don't know how to time their breaks, or they are intentionally trying to push down the women's numbers by completely failing the division at every avenue. What female star has appeared regularly, every week? The injured Brit Baker. That is the only one. They aren't building stars/franchises in the women's division, and the rumors are they are going to let WWE scoop up Tessa Blanchard.
> 
> If you're facing a commercial break, throw out a 5-minute match or a segment/brawl/interview, go to commercial and then start the title match after the break.


Stop making excuses


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Maybe time to find an other one.


lol... watch it


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WARNERMEDIA THRILLED WITH AEW'S WEEKEND NUMBERS, CODY UPDATE, BUCKS' AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND MORE AEW NEWS | PWInsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwinsider.com


Did you read the article? The headline is just bait, but the article says that Meltz thinks they have to be happy with the number. No quote of an exec or anything more than speculation. Sad that most of the people also didnt read the article. Its just „with this number they have to be...“ bullshit. And the drop from q1 to q2 shows that no one of the people accidentally watching stayed for q2. But yeah lets get the party started because Dave said so.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> Did you read the article? The headline is just bait, but the article says that Meltz thinks they have to be happy with the number. No quote of an exec or anything more than speculation. Sad that most of the people also didnt read the article. Its just „with this number they have to be...“ bullshit. And the drop from q1 to q2 shows that no one of the people accidentally watching stayed for q2. But yeah lets get the party started because Dave said so.


I mean its not hard to believe. They pulled a good number on a Saturday night death spot and they ranked top 5 in the demo, which they have been consistently doing for a while now. Of course they're happy, you don't need Meltzer to confirm that for you.


----------



## fabi1982

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean its not hard to believe. They pulled a good number on a Saturday night death spot and they ranked top 5 in the demo, which they have been consistently doing for a while now. Of course they're happy, you don't need Meltzer to confirm that for you.


But where is Meltzers article about the RAW increase? I know that the numbers are good for a Saturday, but does this needs to be written down as „news“ and especially with this headline? No mention of the drop of 30% in 15mins, which an objective writer would have mentioned.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> But where is Meltzers article about the RAW increase? I know that the numbers are good for a Saturday, but does this needs to be written down as „news“ and especially with this headline? No mention of the drop of 30% in 15mins, which an objective writer would have mentioned.


I mean we all know he's biased and always has been. WWE has their podcasters and reporters that suck their di*k too. Then you have Cornette who hates everyone and everything. It's best to just form your own opinion on whatever news comes out and forget the hyperbolic undertone that all of these people take. They all do it just to increase their views.


----------



## fabi1982

prosperwithdeen said:


> I mean we all know he's biased and always has been. WWE has their podcasters and reporters that suck their di*k too. Then you have Cornette who hates everyone and everything. It's best to just form your own opinion on whatever news comes out and forget the hyperbolic undertone that all of these people take. They all do it just to increase their views.


Its less the writer, its more the poeple blindly sharing it and think its actual facts. But I mostly agree with your arguments.


----------



## The Wood

Having 1 million eyeballs on you and having almost 300k of them switch right off highlights exactly why wrestling is in the toilet.

Not good that TNT executives are happy with Saturday numbers either. I smell Thunder. AEW having a “loyal audience” (if the story isn’t complete bullshit) is good when it comes to pimping out advertising to the people who want to advertise to wrestling, in a trivial and more abstract sense, but it means you’ve got a bunch of people who will follow the show around to 10pm on a Thursday too.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Wood said:


> Having 1 million eyeballs on you and having almost 300k of them switch right off highlights exactly why wrestling is in the toilet.
> 
> Not good that TNT executives are happy with Saturday numbers either. I smell Thunder. AEW having a “loyal audience” (if the story isn’t complete bullshit) is good when it comes to pimping out advertising to the people who want to advertise to wrestling, in a trivial and more abstract sense, but it means you’ve got a bunch of people who will follow the show around to 10pm on a Thursday too.


That's just the 15 minute average. Dynamite actually started out with 1.4 million. It had a massive lead in from the NBA game and these people came back to watch the other NBA game after Dynamite was done.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

_Walks In_

Alright Alright Alright! AEW kicking ass on a Saturday? They just CONTINUE to do so well. Wrestling fans with sense love to see it.

_Walks back out_


----------



## 304418

NathanMayberry said:


> That's just the 15 minute average. Dynamite actually started out with 1.4 million. It had a massive lead in from the NBA game and these people came back to watch the other NBA game after Dynamite was done.


That’s even worse. They basically got a mulligan with viewers and couldn't keep them hooked for the whole show.

And considering the Q2 is confirmed to be Moxley promo, MJF promo & the start of the 8 man tag. And the 8 man tag got back viewers in Q3, along with the Kingston promo, Baker-Ford segment & Jericho challenging Orange Cassidy before the ratings dipped for the rest of the evening. It says to me that casuals are not invested in MJF and even more concerning is that casuals are not invested in the world champion Moxley. Meaning casuals are not really invested in the All Out main event this year.

Casuals are more invested in Jurassic Express, Lucha Bros, Butcher & Blade, Dustin Rhodes, and QT Marshall! Not to mention Baker, Ford/Sabian & Jericho.


----------



## Pippen94

Aew keeps winning


----------



## Jazminator

NXT will be on Tuesday next week due to hockey. So Dynamite will be unopposed. That’s a gift for AEW.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> That’s even worse. They basically got a mulligan with viewers and couldn't keep them hooked for the whole show.
> 
> And considering the Q2 is confirmed to be Moxley promo, MJF promo & the start of the 8 man tag. And the 8 man tag got back viewers in Q3, along with the Kingston promo, Baker-Ford segment & Jericho challenging Orange Cassidy before the ratings dipped for the rest of the evening. *It says to me* that casuals are not invested in MJF and even more concerning is that casuals are not invested in the world champion Moxley. Meaning casuals are not really invested in the All Out main event this year.
> 
> Casuals are more invested in Jurassic Express, Lucha Bros, Butcher & Blade, Dustin Rhodes, and QT Marshall! Not to mention Baker, Ford/Sabian & Jericho.


It says to me that you're saying a lot of dumb things just to protect your women wrestling.


----------



## 304418

rbl85 said:


> It says to me that you're saying a lot of dumb things just to protect your women wrestling.


No, I’m not. The world champ is supposed to draw for the company. Period. If he doesn’t draw or the viewers change the channel when he comes on, then no one will watch or become invested in the product. And if the audience isn’t invested in what is being booked for the PPV main event, then something else will have to capture their attention to buy it.

Stop making excuses as to why Moxley and MJF are not as over as they should be. Women's wrestling isn't being billed as the main event. They are.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

AEW pulls a good rating after being moved to another night at a completely different time, preempted by a half an hour and have a ton of sports competition including a PPV from their direct competitor and the usual suspects still find a way to shit on it. Sounds about right.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> No, I’m not. The world champ is supposed to draw for the company. Period. If he doesn’t draw or the viewers change the channel when he comes on, then no one will watch or become invested in the product. And if the audience isn’t invested in what is being booked for the PPV main event, then something else will have to capture their attention to buy it.
> 
> Stop making excuses as to why Moxley and MJF are not as over as they should be. Women's wrestling isn't being billed as the main event. They are.


Everytime Mox have a match in the main event the show ends up doing it's best ratings so....


----------



## Pablo Escobar

Serious question... shouldn't AEW number of viewers have grown more in the past 10 months or so?? Seems like they have a pretty solid product; and invested quite a bit of money in the roster and in advertising. Not saying they are unsuccessful, but merely lack any sort of growth despite: 


TNT heavily marketing the show; lots of commercial's airing daily and NBA promoting it.
Advertisements for Dynamite on Monday Night Raw
Being very friendly with media ; folks like Dave Meltzer, and company. Podcasters...etc
Sign some semi-big names from WWE, Matt Hardy, Brody Lee, The Revival, & Lance Archer from NJPW.
Using legends, Arn, Tully, Bret Hart, Bischoff, DDP, Jake the Snake, etc etc
Action figures
Heavily social media presence , Meme culture

What more can AEW really do without signing a high profile signing?? Objectively looking at it.... I'm going to assume they are actually seeing 10% new fans per month; and losing another set of 10% of existing fans. With arguably one of the best wrestling shows on; what else can AEW really do?

Again; not that they are doing bad.... but seems like the next step/possible leap ; wont be until they can sign someone like a Kevin Owens, Adam Cole, or Daniel Bryan from WWE. I'm going to guess that MOST (75% or more) of WWE/current wrestling fans know of AEW. Probably far more to be honest. I'm going to guess that about 4 million of the ex-wrestling fans ...a majority still isn't really familiar with it; OR they just don't care. 

So what's missing?!? Why are some viewers tuning out? (Or just no new viewers watching) Are they trying to please too many people? Too much comedy? lack stars? I'm pretty confident AT LEAST 2 million wrestling fans know of AEW; however only about 775K , average viewers; which can swing about 150K either which way. (First episode drew 1.5M)

Thoughts??


----------



## 304418

rbl85 said:


> Everytime Mox have a match in the main event the show ends up doing it's best ratings so....


Maybe protect your champion better. Why both he and MJF were not in the opening segments considering that the NBA playoff were the lead in to Dynamite and there is a major PPV for AEW coming up I have no idea.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

They haven't even been on TV a year yet. I don't think even WCW experienced much growth when first starting. It takes a while for word to get around, and the 'big' storylines for AEW haven't even taken place yet. If in 2/3 years time there's no sign of the audience growing at all maybe they will worry then. Even then though, TV viewership numbers seem to be down hugely in comparison with the 90's and AEW generally appear to be one of the highest viewed shows on Wednesday, so whilst it would be disappointing for AEW to not increase their viewership long term, I can't see TNT having a problem with them given they seem to pull pretty good numbers compared to other shows. Until then, they're still a fledgling company for now.


----------



## Prosper

Well the audience is a lot bigger than what the cable numbers suggest. More than half are watching online for both companies. WWE’s entire Thunderdome audience is online. AEW’s audience certainly is growing given its popularity, success in the demo, successful PPV buyrates, and their popularity in Europe. Its just that they don’t all watch live on cable. I would bet good money that 95% of this forum doesn’t watch on TV but through streams and replays. You can’t track any of that.

And you also have to think about it from a live gate perspective. Even if AEW was hypothetically and consistently at 1.5 million cable viewers, Are all of those same people going to sell out every show every Wednesday and on every PPV if their numbers were that low? Same with WWE, RAW does on average 1.7 every week and people think that’s their whole audience. Why do their shows sell out 90% of the time without fail? Surely it’s not the same people buying tickets over and over to every show every year.

You also have to give it time. This isn’t WCW in the 90’s where they had all the biggest stars to ever be in wrestling in an era where wrestling was popular. In the modern era, wrestling is a niche thing and largely unpopular, so any audience gains that AEW make will mostly come from the wrestling audience who stayed and decided to stay loyal to the sport in general. But as far as wrestling growing to a mainstream level, that’s a dream of the past given that kayfabe is deader than dead.


----------



## Freelancer

They haven't even been on a year yet, and they are beating the WWE show going up against them every week. I'd be happy with that. That being said, WWE's monopoly on the business for the last 20 years has really hurt it. They went from the popularity of the Attitude Era, to people basically laughing at you if you tell them you still watch wrestling.


----------



## Britz94xD

AEW were on fire right before the coronavirus struck and it took some wind out of their sails for sure, but Double or Nothing still managed to do more buys than last year with 0 audience which was pretty impressive.

If it wasn't for covid, they'd be planning a stadium show for next year right about now.


----------



## Ger

I think we should stop with the comparison to WCW, just because a few people here want the _monday night wars_ time back. AEW is well known, because of the *internet* and promotion spamming by Meltzer, which is copied by other wrestling talkers. So there are just very few casuals left, who never heard about it. So it is not like in the 90s.
About giving it time: it was hyped already months before it started. The first wrestling event was may 2019.


----------



## 304418

Everyone fell for the hype, watched and realized they didn’t like it. Now some may just be watching online instead, which is bound to happen considering that streaming is slowly replacing tv. But the tv product isn’t firing on all cylinders if its failing to draw over 900K on a weekly basis. Maybe the viewers that left were expecting a more Attitude Era product since it’s a TV-14 show and it failed to deliver. Maybe they were expecting the tv show to be like the PPVs show. But losing half of the NBA playoff lead in and only drawing the core AEW audience is a problem. TNT is happy with it, since it means they don’t have to pay more for them. If AEW was doing higher ratings for TNT, then TNT would have to pay more for renewal down the line. Meaning AEW needs to hit the reset button and go back and do what is proven to work if they want to grow their audience.

Better sports presentation (Dynamite intro every week, AEW logo on canvas, more blood, get rid of the mood lighting, champions and challengers seconded by teams/camps)
Better character development via segments, interviews, and video packages.
Better storyline development. The major reason the pandemic shows have been underwhelming has been poor story development.
Hype up some newcomers (i.e Sadie Gibbs, Wardlow) while letting other newcomers show up quietly (i.e. Jamie Hayter, Shanna, Big Swole).
Save debuts of major names for PPVs (i.e Moxley, PAC, Santana/Ortiz, Awesome Kong, Aja Kong, Brian Cage). Give viewers a reason to tune in to Dynamite.
Trios matches instead of huge multiman matches. Too many new names to remember for new viewers when its 4 vs 4 or more.
More hardcore matches. The FTW title should be able to fill this void.
More time limit draws/ tv time remain draws (Cody vs Darby, Mox vs PAC).
#1 contender fights on PPV (i.e. Omega vs Jericho, Shida vs Riho, tag matches). Stakes that give viewers a reason to buy and watch PPVs and watch the build on tv.
Stories with emotional investment behind them (i.e. Cody vs Dustin, Cody vs Spears, Hangman vs Omega).
Position Omega and Hangman as main eventers or TNT title contenders. I think we are ready to see that.
Position Young Bucks & Lucha Bros as top tag title contenders. I think we are ready to see that too.
Take advantage of NJPW`s popularity and push a male Japanese star on the main show as a major star. Not Nakazawa; more along the lines of CIMA.
Get Marko Stunt away from Jurassic Express. The story between Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus is the real draw.
Get Chris Jericho away from Inner Circle. The group is established enough that he doesn’t need them. Time to let them do their own respective things.
Replace Moxley with PAC as a top guy. PAC brings the intensity that Moxley just lacks.
At the very least, get rid of the creepers from the Dark Order. They`re the weak links of the faction and why the Dark Order has not caught on. Stop cosplaying the Ministry of Darkness and do your own thing.
More faction brawls.
Go back to a two man booth. Three person booths are a bit played out. JR & Schiavone work great as a team. Bring out Veda Scott for the women’s matches.
Take the product more seriously. I did not see any other sports leagues turn to comedy to fill tv time during the pandemic. Only AEW did that.


----------



## RapShepard

It hasn't grown because its virtually identical to the WWE. If you stopped watching because you didn't like what the WWE had to offer, AEW isn't doing anything substantially different enough to entice you back. To someone not in the know their product is indistinguishable from the WWE and if you're a causal WWE viewer they're giving you more than enough content to watch.


----------



## Pablo Escobar

Ger said:


> think we should stop with the comparison to WCW, just because a few people here want the _monday night wars_ time back. AEW is well known, because of the *internet* and promotion spamming by Meltzer, which is copied by other wrestling talkers. So there are just very few casuals left, who never heard about it. So it is not like in the 90s.
> About giving it time: it was hyped already months before it started. The first wrestling event was may 2019.


Exactly...WCW is completely a different boat. While you can say it takes time... and to some degree yes.... but look at how much advertising they are doing... only to NOT have more viewers watch the show. At some point the advertising will slow down. It's true at other measurable numbers might be going up... but ultimately it seems like they are pushing everyone to watch Dynamite. I get DVR and Online... but the TV ratings numbers; haven't increased. They've done XYZ... and I just see it difficult for them to take that next step unless something major happens. 

Again; like i said originally.... I don't think they are doing bad... i just expect with the amount of marketing and promotion they are doing; the tv ratings numbers would increase. Just like if you have a Car Sale; or a coupon for 50% off a video game... theorically you should sell more. Same with AEW and their marketing/promotion.



Verbatim17 said:


> Better sports presentation (Dynamite intro every week, AEW logo on canvas, more blood, get rid of the mood lighting, champions and challengers seconded by teams camps)
> Better character development via segments, interviews, and video packages.
> Better storyline development. The major reason the pandemic shows have been underwhelming has been poor story development.
> Hype up some newcomers (i.e Sadie Gibbs, Wardlow) while letting other newcomers show up quietly (i.e. Jamie Hayter, Shanna, Big Swole).
> Save debuts of major names for PPVs (i.e Moxley, PAC, Santana/Ortiz, Awesome Kong, Aja Kong, Brian Cage). Give viewers a reason to tune in to Dynamite.
> Trios matches instead of huge multiman matches. Too many new names to remember for new viewers when its 4 vs 4 or more.
> More hardcore matches. The FTW title should be able to fill this void.
> More time limit draws/ tv time remain draws (Cody vs Darby, Mox vs PAC).
> #1 contender fights on PPV (i.e. Omega vs Jericho, Shida vs Riho, tag matches). Stakes that give viewers a reason to buy and watch PPVs and watch the build on tv.
> Stories with emotional investment behind them (i.e. Cody vs Dustin, Cody vs Spears, Hangman vs Omega).
> Position Omega and Hangman as main eventers or TNT title contenders. I think we are ready to see that.
> Position Young Bucks & Lucha Bros as top tag title contenders. I think we are ready to see that too.
> Take advantage of NJPW`s popularity and push a male Japanese star on the main show as a major star. Not Nakazawa; more along the lines of CIMA.
> Get Marko Stunt away from Jurassic Express. The story between Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus is the real draw.
> Get Chris Jericho away from Inner Circle. The group is established enough that he doesn’t need them. Time to let them do their own respective things.
> Replace Moxley with PAC as a top guy. PAC brings the intensity that Moxley just lacks.
> At the very least, get rid of the creepers from the Dark Order. They`re the weak links of the faction and why the Dark Order has not caught on. Stop cosplaying the Ministry of Darkness and do your own thing.
> More faction brawls.
> Go back to a two man booth. Three person booths are a bit played out. JR & Schiavone work great as a team. Bring out Veda Scott for the women’s matches.
> Take the product more seriously. I did not see any other sports leagues turn to comedy to fill tv time during the pandemic. Only AEW did that.


While i agree with most of these... i think that's part of the problem... that they are trying to please too many people. It's tough to do a part comedy , part hardcore show.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> But where is Meltzers article about the RAW increase? I know that the numbers are good for a Saturday, but does this needs to be written down as „news“ and especially with this headline? No mention of the drop of 30% in 15mins, which an objective writer would have mentioned.


----------



## Erik.

Because wrestling isn't popular?


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


>





__





WWE Raw ratings up big for SummerSlam fallout, ThunderDome


The combination of the show's ThunderDome debut and being the day after SummerSlam led Raw to its best numbers in more than four months, averaging 2.03 million viewers and a 0.67 rating in 18-49.




www.f4wonline.com





Wish you guys would spend 2 seconds to actually verify the shit you say.

Dude and that article you quote wasn't even from Meltzer, it was from Mike Johnson


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> Still biased. With RAW he obviouly know why and it is not the wrestling or show, but „thunderdome and ppv fallout“. Where does he write „USA CEO is thrilled with the rating“?
> 
> and sorry for mixing them up, I dont follow any of these nerds and so dont know which portal is from which.


It is thunderdome and PPV fallout lmao, are you really insinuating they saw that big of a gain because the show has been incredibly good recently?


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It is thunderdome and PPV fallout lmao, are you really insinuating they saw that big of a gain because the show has been incredibly good recently?


And you read this where? Isnt this just your opinion? Or did you speak to the increased viewers and they told you it is because of the two things? But hey, you have your opinion and others habe theirs


----------



## Geeee

Usually they are in the top 5. Not bad IMO. People just aren't watching cable because there are so many other ways to entertain themselves. 

I think the circumstances of 2020 have hurt a bit. There are some people who have a mindset of "there are more important things than _blank_ right now" and so they feel guilty watching anything but the news. Also, no crowds in the stands hurts the quality of the product.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Full on troll mode lol.


----------



## Prosper

Pablo Escobar said:


> Exactly...WCW is completely a different boat. While you can say it takes time... and to some degree yes.... but look at how much advertising they are doing... only to NOT have more viewers watch the show. At some point the advertising will slow down. It's true at other measurable numbers might be going up... but ultimately it seems like they are pushing everyone to watch Dynamite. I get DVR and Online... but the TV ratings numbers; haven't increased. They've done XYZ... and I just see it difficult for them to take that next step unless something major happens.
> 
> Again; like i said originally.... I don't think they are doing bad... i just expect with the amount of marketing and promotion they are doing; the tv ratings numbers would increase. Just like if you have a Car Sale; or a coupon for 50% off a video game... theorically you should sell more. Same with AEW and their marketing/promotion.


Casuals are not as interested in wrestling as you might expect. They could advertise their asses off but if people are not interested in wrestling, then they're not gonna tune in. People are not gonna all of a sudden grow an interest for pro wrestling if they never showed interest before just because they see more ads. I see fast food ads all the time, but I still hate McDonalds. I see NHL advertising all the time, but I never watch hockey. The current wrestling audience across the board are the only fans left. If AEW's audience growth is to reflect on cable numbers, it will be because they are WWE watchers who decide to watch AEW instead. But AEW and WWE are not going to make heaps of "new" fans. Not in 2020. Because at the end of the day the stigma of fake fighting is too ingrained in society. It's not like actual sports or MMA that creates new fans every day because of the real competition involved.


----------



## the_flock

Freezer Geezer said:


> They haven't even been on TV a year yet. I don't think even WCW experienced much growth when first starting.


WCW went from a 2.5 when Nitro started to a 4.3 a year later.


----------



## validreasoning

Freezer Geezer said:


> They haven't even been on TV a year yet. I don't think even WCW experienced much growth when first starting. It takes a while for word to get around, and the 'big' storylines for AEW haven't even taken place yet. If in 2/3 years time there's no sign of the audience growing at all maybe they will worry then. Even then though, TV viewership numbers seem to be down hugely in comparison with the 90's and AEW generally appear to be one of the highest viewed shows on Wednesday, so whilst it would be disappointing for AEW to not increase their viewership long term, I can't see TNT having a problem with them given they seem to pull pretty good numbers compared to other shows. Until then, they're still a fledgling company for now.


Big difference is cable TV seen explosion in popularity in mid to late 90s. Millions of homes subscribed, Fox news, Comedy Central, tnt, mtv etc saw massive growth.

The opposite is true right now, millions of homes are getting rid of cable each year. There has been massive fall off in cable viewers across the board since 2014 outside the news networks and they will likely see gigantic drops too once Trump leaves office


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It hasn't grown because its virtually identical to the WWE. If you stopped watching because you didn't like what the WWE had to offer, AEW isn't doing anything substantially different enough to entice you back. To someone not in the know their product is indistinguishable from the WWE and if you're a causal WWE viewer they're given you more than enough content to watch.


This seems correct to me

When you get deeper into it / I think they are vastly different to WWE - but you need to put the hours in to see it

but on the face of it - just tuning in, just seems like more of the same


----------



## CM Buck

I don't know. The fan base isn't the best people to ask. You'd have to ask tv people. I can tell you why I don't contribute to their ratings. Besides not having the channel, streaming services are much easier for me. I need to be able to skip nonsense.

For example. Nxt today I was finished within 30 minutes. So essentially after ciampa. As much as I like Escobar and Strickland it wasn't enough to keep me tuned in.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This seems correct to me
> 
> When you get deeper into it / I think they are vastly different to WWE - but you need to put the hours in to see it
> 
> but on the face of it - just tuning in, just seems like more of the same


It's just really hard to immediately stand out from the WWE on a surface level, but still be appealing on a mass level.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

A lot of the AEW loyalists here will give you 25 reasons why ranging from hasn't been around long enough to wrestling not being popular anymore but the reality is much more simple:

AEW is very very niche.

Remember, one of the homegrown guys they've pushed the most in Orange Cassidy was hired by The Young Bucks simply to annoy traditionalist fans. Why would you go out of your way to turn off a segment of the audience (Quite a large one if I'm honest) if you're not a niche product?

Inside references, having to follow the internet show to understand story lines, the constant force feeding of memes (How many more times are they going to pretend Jericho shouting on commentary is a reason to tune in?) etc etc is further proof that it's just this niche wrestling show for the "Wrestling is fun and fake" crowd.

No normal wrestling fan who happens to stumble across this is going to stick around for a tag team feud over one wrestlers mums minivan or the guy who is 150 pounds and wrestles in his jeans. They just assume it's all bullshit and tune back into WWE or YouTube the classics...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's just really hard to immediately stand out from the WWE on a surface level, but still be appealing on a mass level.


yep, kinda catch-22 / if you vastly change the presentation, do you even get 750k viewers

big chance to take

logical to copy from what was working best


----------



## Bret'Hitman'Hart

In my mind the answer is simple. The wrestling industry as a whole is slowly decreasing , regardless of brand loyalty or promotion. This started when Wwe began its twenty year monopoly on the industry. That being said , this is not souly an inherent AEW problem. The problem is much deeper. However AEW does have much room to improve and can grow exponentially. I think in the age of social media can help but also hurt the company. Social media has to many spoilers and bickering for wrestling to excell in this type of environment. Social media is going No where so the industry needs to adapt in a way that is actually pro wrestling and not trying to cater to the mass amount of casuals who are never coming back. Www has shown they are not capable of doing this and AEW is the last hope of this business imo , like it or not , I doubt wwe gets better or wrestilng as a whole gets another shot like AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Masked Avenger said:


> AEW pulls a good rating after being moved to another night at a completely different time, preempted by a half an hour and have a ton of sports competition including a PPV from their direct competitor and the usual suspects still find a way to shit on it. Sounds about right.


You guys don't think you bring it on yourselves a little bit? There used to be a bloke on here who would openly mock and tag "the haters" begging for a fight over the ratings every week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW is very very niche.


this was all you needed to say - the rest are just little digs at everybody and your opinions on talent

this part though, is correct - its niche


----------



## 3venflow

I don't think it's _that_ niche. It's closer to the Attitude Era in presentation than WWE is right now. More edgy, unfiltered and less sterile. However, the industry as a whole is not what it used to be. The world has changed, a lot of people watch 'on-demand' and not live. There are a number of variables to factor in.

The most important thing is that it's clear that AEW is doing well and has kept itself going through the pandemic. TNT are happy, the owner is happy, the workers seem to be enjoying themselves. The company is young and it can take years to get to the ultimate goal.

In terms of growing from here, well that's for their brand strategist to decide. Do they want to go more mainstream? ie. More crossovers, bringing in guys like Shaq?

Do they want to change their direction? Become more extreme and edgy or become more of a clean, sports-based production?

Or do they want to maintain their current direction and try to build on their existing fan base?

Personally, I think changing to a full 'sporty' direction wouldn't work. That era is looong gone (even WCW abandoned it in the 90s!) and this is coming from a big NJPW fan, who has watched the sports presentation Japan uses for years. If you want to talk about niche, trying to do ROH on a bigger scale is niche.

I believe they should look to refine what they are doing rather than make major changes. People who watch AEW are enjoying AEW. There's a hardcore fanbase + TV deal that can sustain the product indefinitely. So there is no urgency to make sweeping changes.

IMO, signings like Stark are what they need. The industry is overrun by bland, featureless guys (the Undisputed Era group in NXT embody everything I can't stand about modern wrestling... pure vanilla, like carbon copies from the same machine) when it's proven that wrestling has been at its hottest with LARGER THAN LIFE characters who can talk AND put on compelling matches. See: The Rock, SCSA, Hogan, Sting, Flair, Macho and so on.


----------



## DaSlacker

500,000 people switched on last October

They saw a very similar cartoon style of presentation/in ring pro wrestling to late 90's WCW meets WWE/NXT meets X Division TNA. 

Tiny Rhio taking a ridiculous amount of punishment yet winning, Moxley interfering yet no DQ, The Elite and Private Party spamming obviously rehearsed high spots, another faction, Jack Swagger as the big signing, Jimmy Havoc (who) vs Darby Allin (who) in a number one contenders match, big brawls which nobody tried to stop...

By week 4 they'd gone.


Cord cutting and WWE/NXT oversaturating the market has caused a difficult upwards gradient.


----------



## Not Lying

Because wrestling isn't like other shows, it takes time to build an audience and the people still talking about them going from 1.4m in their debut shows to what they are now to justify their "hatred" for AEW daring to exist and compete with WWE is the most pathetic thing the naysers do right next to "They hire too much WWE guys". The 2 companies are not similar in their presentation and their utilisation of the roster, it is a complete different atmosphere.

Obviously there are some WWE loyalists here who will look to undermine anything AEW does just, and AEW gets valid criticism on some stuff, but for the most part, as long they as *exceeding* expectations, they're at a great start. If most analysts were expecting 400-500k cable viewers but they are doing 1.5-2x that, then that's tv ratings success, and for AEW, who is doing these great numbers with a YOUNGER DEMO than WWE, this can only lead to future growth as these demos become the 50+ loyalist.

Not everyone is going to like wrestling, and not everyone is going to watch it the same way. Them losing what real number of the cable viewers (because it's not 500k-600k, the real number would be half of that as already mentioned, there are other ways of watching) that show had, is not an indicator that their "booking" wass terrible and would still be after 1 year after any segment they don't like.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> And you read this where? Isnt this just your opinion? Or did you speak to the increased viewers and they told you it is because of the two things? But hey, you have your opinion and others habe theirs


If you're just going to ignore all historical data, then ok, you got this one bro.


----------



## Prosper

Threads were merged lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

To the people arguing that it's not an issue with AEW's booking or storytelling let me ask this one simple question to all of you...

Which AEW character can you truly relate to on a personal level? I'm not talking about social media or Be The Elite but TV writing that evokes an emotional response from you.

For example, ECW were awesome at this. Everyone has a friend like Sandman who loves to drink, smoke and fight, everyone can relate to Raven whether you knew a kid like him and hated him or you were that kid, Shane Douglas again, very relatable as the captain of the football team who would shove you into your locker and laugh, Terry Funk as the old crazy bastard looking for one final run is a relatable underdog story.

Who in AEW is relatable? The guys the company is based around are millionaires and EVP's in a hundred million dollar company. Joe from next door who loves to play pool and get on the tins can't relate to that. Even "man of the people" Moxley isn't all that relatable because his gimmick is "generic bad ass". I still don't know why AEW has never promoted the backstories of guys like Darby, Jungle Boy, Marko or even falsified one to make MJF more hated. It comes across as lazy but maybe they just don't know that they're aiming for emotional investment to draw people in.

Personally the only guy I can relate to on the AEW roster is Darby Allin because he doesn't drink and I don't either but I only know his backstory from posting here. If you tune into the AEW TV Show all you see is him having matches and hanging out with Tony Hawk.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> Having 1 million eyeballs on you and having almost 300k of them switch right off highlights exactly why wrestling is in the toilet.


It highlights that those 300,000 were NBA fans and were moving to the next channel for the next playoff game. Even in 1998, my all time peak moment for wrestling fandom, im passing right by Goldberg or Austin onto the next game. Just the way it is.



NathanMayberry said:


> That's just the 15 minute average. Dynamite actually started out with 1.4 million. It had a massive lead in from the NBA game and these people came back to watch the other NBA game after Dynamite was done.


Why are you so shocked that NBA fans follow the NBA games channel to channel?


----------



## La Parka

AEW is basically WWE on a different channel ran by different people. After watching Money in the Bank and Stadium stampede this became all the more clear. 

AEW doesn't try to be a wrestling show. It's a sports entertainment show that claims to be a wrestling show. Sports entertainment just isn't much of a draw these days. There's no more stars in wrestling and all thats left is people being silly and I just don't see the appeal of that. People have access to good comedy all around the world and will usually pick that over seeing shtick comedy which both WWE and AEW are filled with. I don't think the audience numbers will ever improve all that drastically. Anyone watching AEW still is in it for the long haul and anyone who is looking for a wrestling show will probably just watch older wrestling they haven't yet checked out. Casual people don't care for wrestling right now and they certainty won't change that mindset by seeing a guy get soaked in Orange Juice or a guy getting oiled up during a match. 

I can only speak for myself when I say I want to watch a wrestling show not a comedy gymnastics show. Can wrestling draw in 2020? I don't know. I hope so. I just wish someone would actually run a wrestling show on my television and give it a chance.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

La Parka said:


> AEW is basically WWE on a different channel ran by different people. After watching Money in the Bank and Stadium stampede this became all the more clear.
> 
> AEW doesn't try to be a wrestling show. It's a sports entertainment show that claims to be a wrestling show. Sports entertainment just isn't much of a draw these days. There's no more stars in wrestling and all thats left is people being silly and I just don't see the appeal of that. People have access to good comedy all around the world and will usually pick that over seeing shtick comedy which both WWE and AEW are filled with. I don't think the audience numbers will ever improve all that drastically. Anyone watching AEW still is in it for the long haul and anyone who is looking for a wrestling show will probably just watch older wrestling they haven't yet checked out. Casual people don't care for wrestling right now and they certainty won't change that mindset by seeing a guy get soaked in Orange Juice or a guy getting oiled up during a match.
> 
> I can only speak for myself when I say I want to watch a wrestling show not a comedy gymnastics show. Can wrestling draw in 2020? I don't know. I hope so. I just wish someone would actually run a wrestling show on my television and give it a chance.


You should watch MLW Fusion if you aren't already. It is definitely wrestling heavy. Or NJPW.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> To the people arguing that it's not an issue with AEW's booking or storytelling let me ask this one simple question to all of you...
> 
> Which AEW character can you truly relate to on a personal level? I'm not talking about social media or Be The Elite but TV writing that evokes an emotional response from you.
> 
> For example, ECW were awesome at this. Everyone has a friend like Sandman who loves to drink, smoke and fight, everyone can relate to Raven whether you knew a kid like him and hated him or you were that kid, Shane Douglas again, very relatable as the captain of the football team who would shove you into your locker and laugh, Terry Funk as the old crazy bastard looking for one final run is a relatable underdog story.
> 
> Who in AEW is relatable? The guys the company is based around are millionaires and EVP's in a hundred million dollar company. Joe from next door who loves to play pool and get on the tins can't relate to that. Even "man of the people" Moxley isn't all that relatable because his gimmick is "generic bad ass". I still don't know why AEW has never promoted the backstories of guys like Darby, Jungle Boy, Marko or even falsified one to make MJF more hated. It comes across as lazy but maybe they just don't know that they're aiming for emotional investment to draw people in.
> 
> Personally the only guy I can relate to on the AEW roster is Darby Allin because he doesn't drink and I don't either but I only know his backstory from posting here. If you tune into the AEW TV Show all you see is him having matches and hanging out with Tony Hawk.


There's plenty people can relate to. You just choose to close your mind to it because you're so obsessed with being negative towards the company. Just because you can't relate doesn't mean that others don't.

Hangman - I love drinking, one of my favorite things to do. Why do you think he's so over? (how is this different from your Sandman example?)

Jericho - I love bubbly, living the good life when I can, I love designer clothes, and people consider me to be charismatic/witty in real life

Sammy G - I love chatting up women, I'm sure I'm not as successful at it as Sammy G though. I’ve used the line “Hit me up” more times than I can count

Brodie Lee - I used to be a manager and had people under me, I also have had the feeling of authority. I also know what it feels like to be held down and to finally break out and fulfill more of my potential

Cody - I am also a go-getter who puts my blood, sweat, and tears into my craft, I would love to build something up from the ground up one day with a gorgeous wife like Brandi by my side, its quite inspiring

Ivelisse - I rep my culture and I am proud of where I come from much like she does

Darby Allin - 20% of the time I can be an introverted loner, sometimes people don't understand where I am coming from due to my background, especially when I am in a pissy mood

Eddie Kingston/Santana/Ortiz - This doesn't relate to me, but how many people do you think have had it rough in the streets growing up? How many people do you think haven't had their father figures in their lives?

Private Party - I am a party guy FOR SURE and I love taking shots

PAC - I have had moments where I have been pissed off at the world for what I think I deserve

Kenny Omega - Kenny is a traveler that went to Japan and fell in love with Japanese women, he is also a gamer, thousands of people can relate to him. In my travels to South America, I would have loved to bring them to America if I had a business or promotion, he's also the best bout machine and people can relate to trying to be the absolute best at what they do

AEW actually does a very good job at getting you invested in their talent.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> AEW is basically WWE on a different channel ran by different people. After watching Money in the Bank and Stadium stampede this became all the more clear.
> 
> AEW doesn't try to be a wrestling show. It's a sports entertainment show that claims to be a wrestling show. Sports entertainment just isn't much of a draw these days. There's no more stars in wrestling and all thats left is people being silly and I just don't see the appeal of that. People have access to good comedy all around the world and will usually pick that over seeing shtick comedy which both WWE and AEW are filled with. I don't think the audience numbers will ever improve all that drastically. Anyone watching AEW still is in it for the long haul and anyone who is looking for a wrestling show will probably just watch older wrestling they haven't yet checked out. Casual people don't care for wrestling right now and they certainty won't change that mindset by seeing a guy get soaked in Orange Juice or a guy getting oiled up during a match.
> 
> I can only speak for myself when I say I want to watch a wrestling show not a comedy gymnastics show. Can wrestling draw in 2020? I don't know. I hope so. I just wish someone would actually run a wrestling show on my television and give it a chance.


There's another show which is straight wrestling on other channel at same time!! You just like to complain


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> If you're just going to ignore all historical data, then ok, you got this one bro.


Same as this article and most of the people forget the NBA leadin which gave them a huge boost, bro.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> Same as this article and most of the people forget the NBA leadin which gave them a huge boost, bro.


Looks to me like most in this thread realize that the million viewer start was because of the NBA. I don’t see anyone celebrating it.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> Same as this article and most of the people forget the NBA leadin which gave them a huge boost, bro.


If you take out that quarter, they did 729k viewers and a .29 in the demo, still a very good number.

And Meltzer brought that up when we actually got quarter hours, we didn't have quarters when that was posted, and regardless, it's a great number.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> To the people arguing that it's not an issue with AEW's booking or storytelling let me ask this one simple question to all of you...
> 
> Which AEW character can you truly relate to on a personal level? I'm not talking about social media or Be The Elite but TV writing that evokes an emotional response from you.
> 
> For example, ECW were awesome at this. Everyone has a friend like Sandman who loves to drink, smoke and fight, everyone can relate to Raven whether you knew a kid like him and hated him or you were that kid, Shane Douglas again, very relatable as the captain of the football team who would shove you into your locker and laugh, Terry Funk as the old crazy bastard looking for one final run is a relatable underdog story.
> 
> Who in AEW is relatable? The guys the company is based around are millionaires and EVP's in a hundred million dollar company. Joe from next door who loves to play pool and get on the tins can't relate to that. Even "man of the people" Moxley isn't all that relatable because his gimmick is "generic bad ass". I still don't know why AEW has never promoted the backstories of guys like Darby, Jungle Boy, Marko or even falsified one to make MJF more hated. It comes across as lazy but maybe they just don't know that they're aiming for emotional investment to draw people in.
> 
> Personally the only guy I can relate to on the AEW roster is Darby Allin because he doesn't drink and I don't either but I only know his backstory from posting here. If you tune into the AEW TV Show all you see is him having matches and hanging out with Tony Hawk.


i always see relatable as somebody i am emotionally invested in (ie> i followed their story)+ someone i would not mind to have a beer with / even if they are not the same as me

then it is 70% of the roster

cody, allin, jungle boy, kingston, OC et all - the only one i would actively avoid or not want to spend more than 10min with is maybe Hardy

in fact, that is the big difference in WWE vs AEW for me

i was only invested in Benoit, Eddie, Batista (during his first rise) and Daniel Bryan

AEW i am invested in almost all of them - follow their twitters, read their blogs, watch their vlogs - to me, that is the largest difference actually - i am way more invested in these guys

i know a lot of people moan about it - but the shoulder content is where its at. Don’t expect the same connection if you don’t watch DARK or BTE or Sammy’s vlog or the ‘Road to’ series.... but also understand that a lot of us do / and there‘s the difference

hell, that is maybe why i am not that invested in Mox - in the end he is a loner and all you see is what is on tv - in today’s age - that is a little 1-dimensional


----------



## rbl85

I think that what's going to hurt AEW tonight is the news.


----------



## DaSlacker

Pippen94 said:


> There's another show which is straight wrestling on other channel at same time!! You just like to complain


Nah. NXT is also too heavy on the 'non stop action' approach. One high octane, well performed, crisp set piece after another to the point of being monotonous. Very little time to the breathe. No garbage talent like Kiss and Stunt. But still a relatively interchangeable roster. Biggest problem with NXT (personally) is that it's mostly boring.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I keep reading the repeating phrase about AEW only being on tv a year. Nitro only climbed their first year. There was no loss of audience. 
AEW has dropped the ball and continues to do it every week. It's frustrating to me because they were our only hope. They just don't know how to write or time commercials or care about the idea of good television (they lack true spectacle but try to pretend they have edge with garbage wrestling and cursing that only drive away sports viewers and families).


----------



## Erik.

Mister Sinister said:


> I keep reading the repeating phrase about AEW only being on tv a year. Nitro only climbed their first year. There was no loss of audience.
> AEW has dropped the ball and continues to do it every week. It's frustrating to me because they were our only hope. They just don't know how to write or time commercials or care about the idea of good television (they lack true spectacle but try to pretend they have edge with garbage wrestling and cursing that only drive away sports viewers and families).


Because the comparisons to WCW are pathetic with totally different circumstances.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Nitro didn't reach their first show high again for 4 months but they did get there. Ofcourse having Hulk Hogan helps quite a bit. If AEW had Cena...


----------



## The Wood

Expected number for NXT. Not inspiring or exciting. This stuff has a ceiling. There is no war.

The whole “AEW has only been on for a year” smokescreen is a Meltzer myth designed to fan the idea that AEW has the potential to grow and that you can expect it to catch fire.


----------



## rbl85

You can't compare a show that you can watch on a lot of different platforms and the show which if you wanted to see it you had to watch it live on the TV.

If the only way to watch AEW or the WWE (raw, SDL and NX) was to watch it live and only on the TV, those shows would all do way bigger ratings.


----------



## The Wood

No one would reasonably suggest that wrestling is as popular now as it was when Nitro was hot, so don’t try that smokescreen. Let’s not pretend the same number of people watch but just over different mediums. And that makes the different mediums point completely moot. prosperwithdeen brought this up ages ago, and it’s such a “well, duh” and “so what?” point. The same goes for WWE, Farmer Wants a Wife and Naked and Rejected or whatever the other shows are. It’s a big whoop. No one cares about the actual number, but rather how it does comparatively.

And the actual point is that being new doesn’t mean it’s hard to get over. In major ways, it is an advantage. You are fighting a dinosaur that has needed a revamp in its very DNA for decades. Being allegedly different is a good thing. But they’re not that different.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> No one would reasonably suggest that wrestling is as popular now as it was when Nitro was hot, so don’t try that smokescreen. *Let’s not pretend the same number of people watch but just over different mediums.* And that makes the different mediums point completely moot. prosperwithdeen brought this up ages ago, and it’s such a “well, duh” and “so what?” point. The same goes for WWE, Farmer Wants a Wife and Naked and Rejected or whatever the other shows are. It’s a big whoop. No one cares about the actual number, but rather how it does comparatively.
> 
> And the actual point is that being new doesn’t mean it’s hard to get over. In major ways, it is an advantage. You are fighting a dinosaur that has needed a revamp in its very DNA for decades. Being allegedly different is a good thing. But they’re not that different.


That's not what i said.

I said that they would do better ratings, RAW and SDL would propably do between 2.5 and 3M
AEW and NXT woudl probably do more or less 1.5M


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> No one would reasonably suggest that wrestling is as popular now as it was when Nitro was hot, so don’t try that smokescreen. Let’s not pretend the same number of people watch but just over different mediums. And that makes the different mediums point completely moot. prosperwithdeen brought this up ages ago, and it’s such a “well, duh” and “so what?” point. The same goes for WWE, Farmer Wants a Wife and Naked and Rejected or whatever the other shows are. It’s a big whoop. No one cares about the actual number, but rather how it does comparatively.
> 
> And the actual point is that being new doesn’t mean it’s hard to get over. In major ways, it is an advantage. You are fighting a dinosaur that has needed a revamp in its very DNA for decades. Being allegedly different is a good thing. But they’re not that different.


luchasaurus


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Mister Sinister said:


> I keep reading the repeating phrase about AEW only being on tv a year. Nitro only climbed their first year. There was no loss of audience.
> AEW has dropped the ball and continues to do it every week. It's frustrating to me because they were our only hope. They just don't know how to write or time commercials or care about the idea of good television (they lack true spectacle but try to pretend they have edge with garbage wrestling and cursing that only drive away sports viewers and families).


You can make the argument they dropped the ball initially, valid argument, going from 1.4 million viewers in October to 660k in the end of November is a giant drop off.

However, unlike every other wrestling show in the last 6 months, and really, the entirety of 2020, they've mitigated their losses, they were doing pretty consistent numbers in the early portion of the year, COVID happened and they took a big hit just like everyone else, however, they've bound back really hard, and in the last 5 weeks, none of their demo numbers would've been lower than what the bottom number was earlier in the year, hell, the .36 they did on 8/5 is among the top 3 of the ENTIRE YEAR.

You can't say that about any other Wrestling show currently.

We'll see how it plays out in the long term, I mean they did that 633k number not too long ago, but the last 5-6 weeks have been pretty strong relative to COVID era. Look at the drop offs for Smackdown, RAW and even NXT to an extent, and AEW has held up far better, to the point that they aren't that far off to pre COVID numbers.


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299074911860744192


----------



## Erik.

I actually think it'll go down this week. Even though the show was better than last weeks.


----------



## Pippen94

Erik. said:


> I actually think it'll go down this week. Even though the show was better than last weeks.


Why??


----------



## Pippen94

My guess +900k (0.4)


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> Why??


Because that's how AEW works. 

Up, down, up, down.

A bipolar fanbase.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It’ll be the same - another night change

next thursday should be a big bump though - go home show and the 2nd thursday in a row

last night’ll just be 755.... maybe 800 again - 0.31


----------



## TD Stinger

I've predicted it elsewhere but I don't think I've said it here. I'm predicting a million for last night's episode.

And I didn't even love last night's episode, but they've done 900k in recent weeks with competition and did 755k for a Saturday show. Maybe I'm off base, but that's my guess. If not that then somewhere in the 900k range.


----------



## Aedubya

.88


----------



## Prosper

I’m gonna go with 900K. I think the live fans being back at 10% should make up for the time slot change.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

You lads are throwing around big numbers - and i hope you’re right

but AEW’s achilles heel has always been the opinion news programs - and it is again hot news time - add to that the time slot change I am dubious

i will put my stake in the ground that next week will be 900+ / 0.36

this week though, i’m staying with 750 / 0.31


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ping pong


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299376195797094408


----------



## AEWMoxley

Moxley vs MJF will have fans in attendance.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I think 770K, different night is going to have an impact on people, and this week they don't have the big lead in.

Looks like schedule might get shifted next week as well since of the NBA stuff.


----------



## kingfrass44

validreasoning said:


> Big difference is cable TV seen explosion in popularity in mid to late 90s. Millions of homes subscribed, Fox news, Comedy Central, tnt, mtv etc saw massive growth.
> 
> The opposite is true right now, millions of homes are getting rid of cable each year. There has been massive fall off in cable viewers across the board since 2014 outside the news networks and they will likely see gigantic drops too once Trump leaves office


You wrong


----------



## kingfrass44

Britz94xD said:


> AEW were on fire right before the coronavirus struck and it took some wind out of their sails for sure, but Double or Nothing still managed to do more buys than last year with 0 audience which was pretty impressive.
> 
> If it wasn't for covid, they'd be planning a stadium show for next year right about now.


Stupid excuses


----------



## shandcraig

AEW will be on HBOMAX in 3 years times. well still TNT but both at the same time


----------



## EmbassyForever

715K, imo


----------



## TKO Wrestling

1 million / .4

My prediction.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You lads are throwing around big numbers - and i hope you’re right
> 
> but AEW’s achilles heel has always been the opinion news programs - and it is again hot news time - add to that the time slot change I am dubious
> 
> i will put my stake in the ground that next week will be 900+ / 0.36
> 
> this week though, i’m staying with 750 / 0.31


I agree with you, news will do big numbers.


----------



## ProjectGargano

When will the ratings drop?


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> When will the ratings drop?


20-30min


----------



## IamMark




----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Down in the demo, that sucks, but it's the same demo if you factor out the NBA lead in quarter.

Can't look too much into these ratings for the next few weeks with all the variables


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW gotta be happy with that man. Not in their usual time-slot and still drawing >700k. Fantastic. I want to start seeing the increases as they move back to their permanent time-slot.


----------



## One Shed

I would say very good number considering it was not their usual day and with the political convention.


----------



## rbl85

I knew that the news show were going to do huge numbers.

Pretty good numbers for AEW considering the opposition


----------



## RiverFenix

Are they back on Wednesday next week? NXT is on Tuesday IIRC because of NHL.


----------



## NathanMayberry

So it seems at this stage AEW is hurting NXT more than NXT is hurting AEW.


----------



## Aedubya

.813


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yup, as expected - sad the demo is down a bit

thought we could keep it above 0.3 at least

but another schedule switch, big news night - as expected.

next week will be interesting


----------



## Prized Fighter

RNC dominated the night, which isn't shocking. I think AEW clears 900,000 if not for that. Next week's Dynamite will be the most interesting rating. NXT will be on Tuesday and it is the go home show for All Out. It would be a great week for story driven segments, but make sure to pace the segments better. There is a consistent issues of segments going long.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yup, as expected - sad the demo is down a bit
> 
> thought we could keep it above 0.3 at least
> 
> but another schedule switch, big news night - as expected.
> 
> next week will be interesting


Last week the demo was above 0.3 only because of the lead in so in a way it's same than last week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Prized Fighter said:


> RNC dominated the night, which isn't shocking. I think AEW clears 900,000 if not for that. Next week's Dynamite will be the most interesting rating. NXT will be on Tuesday and it is the go home show for All Out. It would be a great week for story driven segments, but make sure to pace the segments better. There is a consistent issues of segments going long.


Very likely AEW has to be moved again for NBA next week which absolutely sucks.


----------



## Aedubya

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Very likely AEW has to be moved again for NBA next week which absolutely sucks.


No way?


----------



## RiverFenix

Prized Fighter said:


> RNC dominated the night, which isn't shocking. I think AEW clears 900,000 if not for that. Next week's Dynamite will be the most interesting rating. NXT will be on Tuesday and it is the go home show for All Out. It would be a great week for story driven segments, but make sure to pace the segments better. There is a consistent issues of segments going long.


Jericho vs Janela is not a good start. Ortiz/Santana vs Best Friends is fine and all but this show needs a lot more heat. Bucks/Jurassic Express vs SCU/Private Party with winners facing each other is rather telegraphed. Mox vs Lawyer - who cares about that - even assuming MJF finally gets upper hand in an attack along with Wardlow and Big Shotty Lee. 

TBH though I'm not even sure what they could do. Seems like this week was treated as the go-home.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Last week the demo was above 0.3 only because of the lead in so in a way it's same than last week.


eeehh... i would’ve liked it to stay above 0.3

its easier on the eye


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Very likely AEW has to be moved again for NBA next week which absolutely sucks.


that... would not be great


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Very likely AEW has to be moved again for NBA next week which absolutely sucks.


do you think they will re-plan the postponed games for next week? unlikely, no?


----------



## Erik.

This is pretty good to see how loyal the fanbase actually is.

755k last week and a 57,000 increase this week again on a different day.

I think it's probably a guarantee that there are at least 700,000 hardcores - I think it's also pretty obvious that there are simply AEW fans and NXT (WWE) fans. The hardest part is getting those to watch. Those who mainly watch AEW, I assume like me, just don't watch WWE at all and have zero interest in watching it, especially live. And we all know of the WWE fans who won't watch anything but WWE because it's al lthey know and anything but WWE is small time etc. etc. etc.

Saying that, I do think it's incredible that considering what both NXT and AEW were up against this week - both companies did good numbers!


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> do you think they will re-plan the postponed games for next week? unlikely, no?


They are re-starting either tomorrow or Sunday.

TNT will want to get the games they paid for back ASAP and will not hesitate to move Dynamite from Wednesday.


----------



## One Shed

optikk sucks said:


> do you think they will re-plan the postponed games for next week? unlikely, no?


They are restarting tomorrow. I have not seen anything about games on Wednesday and if so which channels yet. Sounds like some fun chaos...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> do you think they will re-plan the postponed games for next week? unlikely, no?


I have no idea, it's just a mess of a situation, even Jim Ross while going over the card for next week had to say something to the effect of "At this point, still scheduled for next Wednesday", so obviously they don't know either.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Lheurch said:


> They are restarting tomorrow. I have not seen anything about games on Wednesday and if so which channels yet. Sounds like some fun chaos...


----------



## Alright_Mate

Another solid number considering their air day was changed again.

A rise from last week too, which shows that the loyal fans are sticking with them


----------



## Pippen94

Held up despite competition I guess


----------



## The Wood

NathanMayberry said:


> So it seems at this stage AEW is hurting NXT more than NXT is hurting AEW.


Not as much as I would have thought, but there aren’t people who want to watch AEW but can’t because that NXT just has to get their attention first. AEW has taken the people it is going to take. The base that watch NXT on Wednesday just aren’t interested in AEW. There’s not some secret reservoir of 600k people for AEW to poach unopposed.

If NXT went unopposed, they could hypothetically grow that show. In fact, if I were being ruthless WWE, when AEW returns to Wednesdays, I would consider creating a new Wednesday show featuring smark favourites on the main roster. Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Ricochet, etc. Don’t let Vince book it (dude is too busy anyway). It’ll smash AEW, then you can have NXT on a Tuesday or Thursday probably doing better too. WWE would then have the #1, #2, #3 and #4 shows in wrestling. If you manage to get USA to agree to the new show, you may be able to give it to them at no additional cost, but shorten Raw to two hours and only do monthly three hour editions or something.

As far as content going and actually generating new fans, they’d be better off just making Raw and SmackDown good, but they’ve got to work out ways to deal with having so much talent and that three hour Raw problem.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Not as much as I would have thought, but there aren’t people who want to watch AEW but can’t because that NXT just has to get their attention first. AEW has taken the people it is going to take. The base that watch NXT on Wednesday just aren’t interested in AEW. There’s not some secret reservoir of 600k people for AEW to poach unopposed.
> 
> If NXT went unopposed, they could hypothetically grow that show. In fact, if I were being ruthless WWE, when AEW returns to Wednesdays, I would consider creating a new Wednesday show featuring smark favourites on the main roster. Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Ricochet, etc. Don’t let Vince book it (dude is too busy anyway). It’ll smash AEW, then you can have NXT on a Tuesday or Thursday probably doing better too. WWE would then have the #1, #2, #3 and #4 shows in wrestling. If you manage to get USA to agree to the new show, you may be able to give it to them at no additional cost, but shorten Raw to two hours and only do monthly three hour editions or something.
> 
> As far as content going and actually generating new fans, they’d be better off just making Raw and SmackDown good, but they’ve got to work out ways to deal with having so much talent and that three hour Raw problem.


the thing is, you're then asking WWE fans to watch even more wrestling. Don't you think asking for 7 hours each non-PPV week is enough already? WWE have saturated their fanbase. It is a shame about that third hour of RAW. If they didn't have it, I think NXT would be doing much better tbh. But I guess they're getting paid for it so it's whatever.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> the thing is, you're then asking WWE fans to watch even more wrestling. Don't you think asking for 7 hours each non-PPV week is enough already? WWE have saturated their fanbase. It is a shame about that third hour of RAW. If they didn't have it, I think NXT would be doing much better tbh. But I guess they're getting paid for it so it's whatever.


If Raw were two hours, there’s a chance that AEW wouldn’t even exist.

Oversaturation is definitely a problem, but it’s a problem that AEW faces too. Some people just don’t want to spend this much time on wrestling, which is largely why ALL these shows struggle. I’ve been an advocate for shortening Raw for years DESPITE the revenue it brings it because it’s eroding fans.

The WWE is in the volume business now. You can’t really back away from that _too_ much. They’re also publicly traded. It makes Vince a billionaire, but it locks you into certain decisions — unless you can reasonably communicate the necessity of change.

AEW is not going unopposed. So whatever goes against it is going to be at least two hours. They’re not going to move the flagship. SmackDown is also pretty locked into its slot. So the only option is more programming. Right now that’s NXT. I’d be fine with that changing, with NXT being tightened up (1 hour format) or even just moved back to the Network. None of this is necessary. They could just ramp up NXT, but I think WWE can see the big moves and a sinister way to make even more money (potentially).

To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan isn’t to eventually have a show on every night of the week (at least Mon-Fri). And Vince can’t be involved in all of them. It’s possible that the WWE could actually accidentally produce something good by just expanding out of his control.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Not as much as I would have thought, but there aren’t people who want to watch AEW but can’t because that NXT just has to get their attention first. AEW has taken the people it is going to take. The base that watch NXT on Wednesday just aren’t interested in AEW. There’s not some secret reservoir of 600k people for AEW to poach unopposed.
> 
> If NXT went unopposed, they could hypothetically grow that show. In fact, if I were being ruthless WWE, when AEW returns to Wednesdays, I would consider creating a new Wednesday show featuring smark favourites on the main roster. Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Ricochet, etc. Don’t let Vince book it (dude is too busy anyway). It’ll smash AEW, then you can have NXT on a Tuesday or Thursday probably doing better too. WWE would then have the #1, #2, #3 and #4 shows in wrestling. If you manage to get USA to agree to the new show, you may be able to give it to them at no additional cost, but shorten Raw to two hours and only do monthly three hour editions or something.
> 
> As far as content going and actually generating new fans, they’d be better off just making Raw and SmackDown good, but they’ve got to work out ways to deal with having so much talent and that three hour Raw problem.


Love how your solution to boast wwe Wednesday show is to load with work rate guys - meanwhile on aew biggest draws are Orange Cassidy & a fat Chris Jericho cutting promos.


----------



## DaSlacker

AEW has a solid 700,000 fanbase.

Unopposed (wrestling, sport, politics, news) and in a regular spot and on the road. Would be a guaranteed 1 million average.


----------



## Garty

Let's hope that there's not a last-minute day/time change. If it happens, I'd say keep it on the Wednesday, live to tape the show and air it after the game(s). At least that way, you'll keep the day the same, but the time change, to most, won't matter that much. It may also help with a boost in viewers on the West Coast. I would also run, if possible, a replay on Thursday or Friday night, Saturday afternoon, or early evening before the PPV goes live.

I think it's imperative to keep the show on Wednesday night, regardless of the time it airs.


----------



## sideon

DaSlacker said:


> AEW has a solid 700,000 fanbase.
> 
> Unopposed (wrestling, sport, politics, news) and in a regular spot and on the road. Would be a guaranteed 1 million average.


How many more excuses are ya'll going to come up with? The main talking point was that if NXT wasn't on then it would easily get over a million, now it's basically anything that's on is now competition to AEW. Just face the facts that AEW went unopposed and it still couldn't get a million viewers, and acting like the news or the RNC took away from the audience is laughable. NXT faced much stiffer competition than AEW has these past 2 weeks and their numbers still improved.


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> How many more excuses are ya'll going to come up with? The main talking point was that if NXT wasn't on then it would easily get over a million, now it's basically anything that's on is now competition to AEW. Just face the facts that AEW went unopposed and it still couldn't get a million viewers, and acting like the news or the RNC took away from the audience is laughable. NXT faced much stiffer competition than AEW has these past 2 weeks and their numbers still improved.


Not really - trump speech was a bigger ratings draw. A few weeks ago aew got 900,000 against another wrestling show


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sideon said:


> How many more excuses are ya'll going to come up with? The main talking point was that if NXT wasn't on then it would easily get over a million, now it's basically anything that's on is now competition to AEW. Just face the facts that AEW went unopposed and it still couldn't get a million viewers, and acting like the news or the RNC took away from the audience is laughable. NXT faced much stiffer competition than AEW has these past 2 weeks and their numbers still improved.


congratulations?

there’s a whole nxt thread to talk about their ratings


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299514932828962823


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> Not as much as I would have thought, but there aren’t people who want to watch AEW but can’t because that NXT just has to get their attention first. AEW has taken the people it is going to take. The base that watch NXT on Wednesday just aren’t interested in AEW. There’s not some secret reservoir of 600k people for AEW to poach unopposed.
> 
> If NXT went unopposed, they could hypothetically grow that show. In fact, if I were being ruthless WWE, when AEW returns to Wednesdays, I would consider creating a new Wednesday show featuring smark favourites on the main roster. Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Ricochet, etc. Don’t let Vince book it (dude is too busy anyway). It’ll smash AEW, then you can have NXT on a Tuesday or Thursday probably doing better too. WWE would then have the #1, #2, #3 and #4 shows in wrestling. If you manage to get USA to agree to the new show, you may be able to give it to them at no additional cost, but shorten Raw to two hours and only do monthly three hour editions or something.
> 
> As far as content going and actually generating new fans, they’d be better off just making Raw and SmackDown good, but they’ve got to work out ways to deal with having so much talent and that three hour Raw problem.


That’s the last thing WWE needs - more content. And the darlings that you described would be overexposed and burned out within a year.

If WWE wanted to stop AEW, they should have done what I suggested in the spring of 2019, before they became too much of a headache. Vince simply should have bought the promotion from Khan with the condition of a ten year no compete.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> That’s the last thing WWE needs - more content. And the darlings that you described would be overexposed and burned out within a year.
> 
> If WWE wanted to stop AEW, they should have done what I suggested in the spring of 2019, before they became too much of a headache. Vince simply should have bought the promotion from Khan with the condition of a ten year no compete.


In all honesty I think WWE likes AEW in its current position - Dynamite's 750,000 rating being their version of TNA's 1.2 rating.That might change if Raw and SmackDown decline in viewership to the point it becomes a race to the bottom. 

As it is right now it's a useful pseudo character development platform. Cody, MJF, Adam Page, Ricky Starks, Jack Perry would be huge acquisitions for WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

DaSlacker said:


> In all honesty I think WWE likes AEW in its current position - Dynamite's 750,000 rating being their version of TNA's 1.2 rating.That might change if Raw and SmackDown decline in viewership to the point it becomes a race to the bottom.
> 
> As it is right now it's a useful pseudo character development platform. Cody, MJF, Adam Page, Ricky Starks, Jack Perry would be huge acquisitions for WWE.


TNA was never are top ranked show


----------



## thorn123

After a second watching (without commercials on fite) that was an awesome show really. I wasn’t a fan of hardy in the main event but it delivered. The women’s match the only low point. dynamite should be getting more viewers than raw. I just hope ~800k in the US is enough to keep it on the air long term.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Oversaturation is definitely a problem, but it’s a problem that AEW faces too. Some people just don’t want to spend this much time on wrestling, which is largely why ALL these shows struggle. I’ve been an advocate for shortening Raw for years DESPITE the revenue it brings it because it’s eroding fans.


I'd say you're right. Me personally I really enjoy the one hour TV show and would probably be okay with a half hour in modern wrestling also. Been watching some old Impact's lately before they hit 2 hours and it was 45 minutes of action, very punchy, short matches, short segments and left me wanting more.

Half an hour I've always felt could be good also. 2-3 short matches, some angles in between, some commercials and get out of there. NWA would probably fit the 30 minute format on a TV network if they ever got there. 22-24 minutes would probably allow them a few promos, a couple of squashes and one competitive match up.

Three hours is entirely too long and it gets into "long movie" territory at that point. 2 hours is pretty long also, I feel like a lot of people would fast forward less on a 30 or 60 minute show. All about the money though.



sideon said:


> How many more excuses are ya'll going to come up with? The main talking point was that if NXT wasn't on then it would easily get over a million, now it's basically anything that's on is now competition to AEW. Just face the facts that AEW went unopposed and it still couldn't get a million viewers, and acting like the news or the RNC took away from the audience is laughable. NXT faced much stiffer competition than AEW has these past 2 weeks and their numbers still improved.


Yeah, AEW is like TNA where TNA had the million or so loyal fans and that was it. Good thing is AEW has 700-900 thousand people who will watch no matter what which is a great base.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd say you're right. Me personally I really enjoy the one hour TV show and would probably be okay with a half hour in modern wrestling also. Been watching some old Impact's lately before they hit 2 hours and it was 45 minutes of action, very punchy, short matches, short segments and left me wanting more.
> 
> Half an hour I've always felt could be good also. 2-3 short matches, some angles in between, some commercials and get out of there. NWA would probably fit the 30 minute format on a TV network if they ever got there. 22-24 minutes would probably allow them a few promos, a couple of squashes and one competitive match up.
> 
> Three hours is entirely too long and it gets into "long movie" territory at that point. 2 hours is pretty long also, I feel like a lot of people would fast forward less on a 30 or 60 minute show. All about the money though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, AEW is like TNA where TNA had the million or so loyal fans and that was it. Good thing is AEW has 700-900 thousand people who will watch no matter what which is a great base.


No - when was TNA a top ranked show??


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> In all honesty I think WWE likes AEW in its current position - Dynamite's 750,000 rating being their version of TNA's 1.2 rating.That might change if Raw and SmackDown decline in viewership to the point it becomes a race to the bottom.
> 
> As it is right now it's a useful pseudo character development platform. Cody, MJF, Adam Page, Ricky Starks, Jack Perry would be huge acquisitions for WWE.


Long term it’s a great way to boost WWE business. Relying on ready made talent is far easier and quicker than building up an MJF or Darby Allen from scratch. WWE got boosts by the sudden influx of the Invasion talent, then Flair, then the NWO, then Scott Steiner, and finally Goldberg. Business would have been much worse without them.
Likewise they got a real shot in the arm when TNA collapsed and they were able to bring Nash, Angle, Sting, Roode, and Styles.

AEW is not the same as TNA though. They’re better funded, have a TV deal that makes them profitable, and they’re better run at this point. It’s not a company they can afford to discount, and it’s advantages make it a bit dangerous for WWE in the long term. They might have been better served to quash it, rather than to get into bidding wars with AEW and upset their own salary scale.


----------



## thorn123

I loved the one hour Adrenalin rush that was TNA ... AEW’s second show should be more like that and less like Dark ... 30 minutes would be fine.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

some truth

any company, that makes it out alive at the end of the Pandemic, deserves a f’kn round of applause - given the nature of wrestling, wrestlers and the carny-ness of it all

that includes WWE who runs 3 shows and employs a massive roster, AEW, NJPW, ROH, Impact and even NWA who is making their comeback

that is spectacular work


----------



## RiverFenix

NXT was much better as a one hour show as well. I don't know why wrestling thinks more is better. I mean every other non-sports television show is an hour or half an hour. Sports can go 2-3 hours because it's not scripted and they have seasons. It's impossible to script good 3 hours of live television weekly for 50 weeks a year let alone asking viewers to give up their time to watch it. It's a huge barrier for attracting new fans as well - which is why I think WWE's demo strength is 40+ age (I know the demo publicized is 50+ but I bet most of their 18-49 bracket comes from 40-49 grouping) - these folks were Hulkamaniacs as kids and late teens/early 20's in Attitude Era. Biggest positive change WWE could do is lose the third hour of Raw. Then lose second hour of NXT. 

AEW needs to avoid this same trap. They're already asking for two hours a week for Dynamite and DARK is running longer now, and they're eventually contracted to offer another 1 hour of televised programming. Their roster is getting huge and to justify it they're adding more programming and spamming DARK matches. I get that there is a lot of talent and a lot of friends they want to hire, but less is often more. Aforementioned one-hour NXT was always very good, NWA Power and MLW are both one hour and can offer good matches and story progression. Scripted shows have 5-6 main characters and then cameo's and background character actors. Game of Thrones probably did have 30 or so key characters but they only had like 18 hours of television A SEASON. WWE offers that in two weeks of it's total programming load. 

I will say Dynamite is basically a one hour wrestling show stretched out to two hours by their long matches - so the show is not as draining as two hour shows with 5 minute matches spammed just as filler. For the most part all AEW Dynamite matched have storyline involved and/or consequence in the outcome. 

I like NWA's television time limit matches - the rules makes it so kayfabe the wrestlers go all out in a sprint for a finish because they don't want a time limit draw. It kayfabe makes them take more risks, swing for the fences and less to no reason for rest holds and stalling. AEW should do this for their Dark matches to give greener wrestlers ring time without over exposing them in their usual longer matches. Also it's not a squash to lose in 4 minutes when that is the strategy of the match set-up. You can have a decent to good half hour wrestling show with four five minute matches and then a couple interview/promo segments.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> No - when was TNA a top ranked show??


What's that got to do with anything? I never said they were top ranked (To be honest I don't know if they were, they very well might have been).

I'm simply saying I enjoyed the content of their one hour shows. They'd give you a couple of squashes, a couple of short competitive matches and a 8-10 minute main event most weeks mixed in with angles that were generally punchy and to the point. A 22-24 minute (30 with ads) or 40-45 minute wrestling show (60 with ads) feels more like a TV show as opposed to 2-3 hours which feels like a movie.

Made TNA's PPV seem more important as well with a one hour show.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I agree with the majority that wishes Dynamite was just one hour. LOVED the hold 1 hour Nitros and Impacts.


----------



## DaSlacker

Pippen94 said:


> No - when was TNA a top ranked show??


Surely they were high up the daily cable ratings? The viewership was hovering around 1.6 million and the demo was strong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DaSlacker said:


> Surely they were high up the daily cable ratings? The viewership was hovering around 1.6 million and the demo was strong.


This was back when cable subscriber numbers peaked in America. Since 2010, they’ve been going down every year without fail.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

So despite no NBA lead in and changing nights again AEW managed to get higher ratings then sat?

That's awesome!!!

I didnt think either show would do so well AEWs fans are loyal for sure and aew is only getting better.


----------



## 3venflow

TKO Wrestling said:


> I agree with the majority that wishes Dynamite was just one hour. LOVED the hold 1 hour Nitros and Impacts.


They can't even get a lot of their talent on the 2-hour show, though. And they have pretty long matches, which is just part of the company's direction.

When you consider AEW currently has no house shows and no secondary show (I don't really count Dark), what do they do with most of the roster if they only have a 1-hour show?

Dynamite rarely feels too long to me as a while. Some of the matches do, but the actual show itself usually has a good pace.


----------



## One Shed

I think two hours for the main show is perfect. It is enough to give you a lot but make you want more. Three hours makes it feel like I am doing work to get through the show.


----------



## Not Lying

did we get the breakdown yet?


----------



## Claro De Luna

Only 4 sets of tickets for All Out remaining on Ticketmaster. A fair few sets for Wednesday's Dynamite still remaining.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Love how your solution to boast wwe Wednesday show is to load with work rate guys - meanwhile on aew biggest draws are Orange Cassidy & a fat Chris Jericho cutting promos.


Guys who appeal to the hardcore fans. They’d win you those 200k floaters and probably take a few WWE viewers across with them. That show could possibly do over 1 million every week. Wtf is a “work rate guy?”



Pippen94 said:


> Not really - trump speech was a bigger ratings draw. A few weeks ago aew got 900,000 against another wrestling show


And that’s a massive rating for them, which is why you’re bringing it up.

AEW is not growing and does not have the ability nor the means to grow.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Guys who appeal to the hardcore fans. They’d win you those 200k floaters and probably take a few WWE viewers across with them. That show could possibly do over 1 million every week. Wtf is a “work rate guy?”
> 
> 
> 
> And that’s a massive rating for them, which is why you’re bringing it up.
> 
> AEW is not growing and does not have the ability nor the means to grow.


OK Vince - aew fans must be wrestling nerds so we'll give them wrestlers that hardcore fans love (mostly indy performers from early 2000's!! - you are truly out of touch) You have no idea why aew has following. Whoever is on wwe Wednesday it'll still have same creative & wwe tropes. Finn was suppose to do this but is just another guy now.

Aew has younger average viewer & in head to head battles dominates wwe in this area. Any prediction for future growth & success should be based on that


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> Only 4 sets of tickets for All Out remaining on Ticketmaster. A fair few sets for Wednesday's Dynamite still remaining.


The price XD


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> AEW is not growing and does not have the ability nor the means to grow.


Now now Wood I think this is an opinion


----------



## RiverFenix

WWE will have "encore presentations" of NXT aired against AEW Dynamite on Syfy the next two weeks when NXT is pre-empted off Wednesday Nights by NHL Hockey. 

Yeah, no war.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Now now Wood I think this is an opinion


Yes, it is. What else would it be? It’s a correct opinion.



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE will have "encore presentations" of NXT aired against AEW Dynamite on Syfy the next two weeks when NXT is pre-empted off Wednesday Nights by NHL Hockey.
> 
> Yeah, no war.


Would be more “war-like” to put original programming against it. Wouldn’t be hard to put on a few weeks of WWE vs. NXT. You don’t need that gimmick for Survivor Series.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Yes, it is. What else would it be? It’s a correct opinion.


Opinions can’t be fact or fiction, correct or incorrect. They are subjective. We can debate about things all we want; but no need to parade your opinion as factual.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Opinions can’t be fact or fiction, correct or incorrect. They are subjective. We can debate about things all we want; but no need to parade your opinion as factual.


strange... i’m of the opinion i’m always correct

its a conundrum


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Opinions can’t be fact or fiction, correct or incorrect. They are subjective. We can debate about things all we want; but no need to parade your opinion as factual.


Opinions can be based on evidence. Not all opinions are entirely subjective. Your opinion on opinions is wrong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Opinions can be based on evidence. Not all opinions are entirely subjective. Your opinion on opinions is wrong.


You’re pretty wrong about the majority of things, but keep at it buddy, keeps a good debate going.


----------



## imthegame19

Q1: NN vs Bucks, beginning of BF vs Bucks: 759K, 332K
Q2: BF vs Bucks, Hangman run in, BF vs FTR: 853K, 373K
Q3: Darby videopackage, Archer vs Maluta. 806K 385K
Q4: Jake Roberts promo, Team Taz comes out, Darby attacks Ricky, Shida/Rosa videopackage, beginning of World Title contract signing 869K, 410K
Q5: Contract signing, beginning of 8 men tag match 841K, 404K
Q6: 8 men tag match, Kingston post match promo, Dark Order promo.781K, 375K
Q7: Anna Jay inducted to Dark Order, Nightmare Family and Scorpio Sky attack, Hangman gets kicked out of the Elite, women handicap match 796K, 370K
Q8: Tay joins Dark Order, Sammy vs Matt, OC attacks Jericho 796K, 361K


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Q5 the 9 o’clock opinion news programs start?


----------



## Garty

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE will have "encore presentations" of NXT aired against AEW Dynamite on Syfy the next two weeks when NXT is pre-empted off Wednesday Nights by NHL Hockey.
> 
> Yeah, no war.


What? Where? When? How? That's impossible!!!  What a joke!


----------



## Peerless

Good to see MJF and Mox being the high point of the show. At least it wasn't the women taking the viewership as per usual though lol.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> You’re pretty wrong about the majority of things, but keep at it buddy, keeps a good debate going.


Like?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Like?


@optikk sucks 














😅


----------



## The Wood

No, go on. 

I did say that I thought NXT would have turned the general viewership trends around by now. I'm happy to be wrong about that. What else have I been wrong about?


----------



## Claro De Luna

The Wood said:


> No, go on.
> 
> I did say that I thought NXT would have turned the general viewership trends around by now. I'm happy to be wrong about that. What else have I been wrong about?


You make out as though all your responses are fact when actually they are all opinions. All negative ones against AEW. You and that Chip guy are the same. Of course criticism is fine but this is all that you both seem to do and it's at the point where it comes across as an obsession and this cannot be good for your mental health. Maybe lay off watching AEW and stick to what brings you enjoyment such as NXT and the indy rubbish such as Impact, ROH and MLW.


----------



## Purple Haze

Good to see that Sammy main eventing didn't lose viewers, the young guys are keeping people invested.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Claro De Luna said:


> You make out as though all your responses are fact when actually they are all opinions. All negative ones against AEW. You and that Chip guy are the same. Of course criticism is fine but this is all that you both seem to do and it's at the point where it comes across as an obsession and this cannot be good for your mental health. Maybe lay off watching AEW and stick to what brings you enjoyment such as NXT and the indy rubbish such as Impact, ROH and MLW.


Not to defend the guy because he's more than capable himself but everyone here really talks about their opinion as if it's fact because it usually is...for them

CattleClass won't mind being used as an example but when he says AEW is awesome and Orange Cassidy is a great character that is fact to him. He might be open to other opinions but that's the way he sees things. Wood is kind of the same just on a different side of things, what he's saying is factual to him and his mind whilst it's different for others. It's called having a strong opinion and as pointed out on the prior page some of his "opinions" are based on facts just like CattleClass' probably are also.

As for me personally in the past few days I've been pretty positive. I said Hangman could be a future star for AEW, have put MJF over pretty massively, I even said the All Out card was looking interesting and that the three matches at the top of the card should be awesome. Unfortunately people focus on my criticisms of the product leading to people such as yourself thinking I am just negative.

As for the super aggressive indy comment none of the promotions you listed are really classed as indy in 2020. Maybe "large indy" but Impact is available in 50 million homes, ROH is available in 40% of American Households whist MLW is on smaller networks but airs on television in four countries. Hard to class those companies as independent promotions.

Indy these days (And I think we could all agree) means "non national television".


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not to defend the guy because he's more than capable himself but everyone here really talks about their opinion as if it's fact because it usually is...for them
> 
> CattleClass won't mind being used as an example but when he says AEW is awesome and Orange Cassidy is a great character that is fact to him. He might be open to other opinions but that's the way he sees things. Wood is kind of the same just on a different side of things, what he's saying is factual to him and his mind whilst it's different for others. It's called having a strong opinion and as pointed out on the prior page some of his "opinions" are based on facts just like CattleClass' probably are also.
> 
> As for me personally in the past few days I've been pretty positive. I said Hangman could be a future star for AEW, have put MJF over pretty massively, I even said the All Out card was looking interesting and that the three matches at the top of the card should be awesome. Unfortunately people focus on my criticisms of the product leading to people such as yourself thinking I am just negative.
> 
> As for the super aggressive indy comment none of the promotions you listed are really classed as indy in 2020. Maybe "large indy" but Impact is available in 50 million homes, ROH is available in 40% of American Households whist MLW is on smaller networks but airs on television in four countries. Hard to class those companies as independent promotions.
> 
> Indy these days (And I think we could all agree) means "non national television".


Only wwe & aew have national tv


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Only wwe & aew have national tv


I could be wrong (And if I am please correct me) but to my knowledge AXS TV is national just not available on all cable packages hence only being available to 50 million people. Just for comparison sake I believe Foxtel in our country is only available to just over 2 million people so Impact is doing really good.

I know ROH doesn't air in all markets and have read that in the past but I've also read they're in most major markets. If you're in a city odds are you have a local affiliate airing ROH. 

MLW I can't comment on, they're on smaller networks but it seems like they're on some form of national TV but it'd be on some kind of low end cable channel that not everyone gets.


----------



## Pippen94

With internet I guess its irrelevant today but there have been very few wrestling promotions with truly national tv


----------



## The Wood

Claro De Luna said:


> You make out as though all your responses are fact when actually they are all opinions. All negative ones against AEW. You and that Chip guy are the same. Of course criticism is fine but this is all that you both seem to do and it's at the point where it comes across as an obsession and this cannot be good for your mental health. Maybe lay off watching AEW and stick to what brings you enjoyment such as NXT and the indy rubbish such as Impact, ROH and MLW.


People on here really like to pretend that all opinions are equal, don't they?


----------



## zkorejo

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not to defend the guy because he's more than capable himself but everyone here really talks about their opinion as if it's fact because it usually is...for them
> 
> CattleClass won't mind being used as an example but when he says AEW is awesome and Orange Cassidy is a great character that is fact to him. He might be open to other opinions but that's the way he sees things. Wood is kind of the same just on a different side of things, what he's saying is factual to him and his mind whilst it's different for others. It's called having a strong opinion and as pointed out on the prior page some of his "opinions" are based on facts just like CattleClass' probably are also.


But its not facts until it can be proven? That's the very definition of a "fact". Just because someone thinks its factual but actually can't prove it, yet continue to sell it as a fact, then it is actually delusion. 

Example: 

Opinion: I am not a fan of OC but I dont mind him.
Fact: He is over with crowds, he's the top seller of their merchandise according to their website and his numbers with Jericho aren't bad. 

What you guys do is, you deny all the proof suggesting he actually is doing good with the fans and force your biased opinions as facts.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> But its not facts until it can be proven? That's the very definition of a "fact". Just because someone thinks its factual but actually can't prove it, yet continue to sell it as a fact, then it is actually delusion.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Opinion: I am not a fan of OC but I dont mind him.
> Fact: He is over with crowds, he's the top seller of their merchandise according to their website and his numbers with Jericho aren't bad.
> 
> What you guys do is, you deny all the proof suggesting he actually is doing good with the fans and force your biased opinions as facts.


People get confused by this even when they lay it out, haha. Take your Orange Cassidy example:

-It may or may not be a fact that he sells the most merchandise. This doesn’t mean he is good for business. This could be an indictment on your business. It doesn’t mean he moves merch comparably to, say, a John Cena or a Steve Austin. It also doesn’t mean that he’s doing well compared to WWE wrestlers now.

So is it a “fact” that Orange Cassidy is this amazing merchandise mover if, say, he sold 36 shirts this week, which is way under the 500 Big E did? 

Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy sells the most 

Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy is over with the mutants.

Definite Opinion: Orange Cassidy is a big star and is over, deal with it.

You are basing your opinion on the AEW website. Cool. At least there’s some evidence for your opinion. But don’t go passing it off like being the cutest ant in the colony is some sort of undeniable prize.

Also, his numbers could be interpreted as bad. It’s my understanding that he loses viewers whenever he’s ham-fisted into main events. I’d say that’s bad, and it kind of proved my opinion — Orange Cassidy is the drizzling shits — correct, at least in terms of how it manifested itself in a business sense.

There’s nothing wrong with an opinion. Of course people are going to believe their own opinions. That doesn’t mean that all opinions are equally as subjective or as unfounded in reality as others.

That’s why it’s the “cynical” guys who get told “That’s just an opinion.” No one has got anything substantial to disagree with it. It’s much easier to state the obvious and dismiss it based on it being an opinion in the first place, which is just ridiculous.

The posters who actually have reasons for disagreeing with wrong opinions state their reasoning and then get spat on for “speaking like they talk in facts.” Yes, how dare those people speak with conviction and present their arguments firmly and with evidence.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> People get confused by this even when they lay it out, haha. Take your Orange Cassidy example:
> 
> -It may or may not be a fact that he sells the most merchandise. This doesn’t mean he is good for business. This could be an indictment on your business. It doesn’t mean he moves merch comparably to, say, a John Cena or a Steve Austin. It also doesn’t mean that he’s doing well compared to WWE wrestlers now.
> 
> So is it a “fact” that Orange Cassidy is this amazing merchandise mover if, say, he sold 36 shirts this week, which is way under the 500 Big E did?
> 
> Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy sells the most
> 
> Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy is over with the mutants.
> 
> Definite Opinion: Orange Cassidy is a big star and is over, deal with it.
> 
> You are basing your opinion on the AEW website. Cool. At least there’s some evidence for your opinion. But don’t go passing it off like being the cutest ant in the colony is some sort of undeniable prize.
> 
> Also, his numbers could be interpreted as bad. It’s my understanding that he loses viewers whenever he’s ham-fisted into main events. I’d say that’s bad, and it kind of proved my opinion — Orange Cassidy is the drizzling shits — correct, at least in terms of how it manifested itself in a business sense.
> 
> There’s nothing wrong with an opinion. Of course people are going to believe their own opinions. That doesn’t mean that all opinions are equally as subjective or as unfounded in reality as others.
> 
> That’s why it’s the “cynical” guys who get told “That’s just an opinion.” No one has got anything substantial to disagree with it. It’s much easier to state the obvious and dismiss it based on it being an opinion in the first place, which is just ridiculous.
> 
> The posters who actually have reasons for disagreeing with wrong opinions state their reasoning and then get spat on for “speaking like they talk in facts.” Yes, how dare those people speak with conviction and present their arguments firmly and with evidence.


To be fair mutants don’t exist so that can’t be a possible fact at all.

I think you may have nullified your whole argument with that misstep.


----------



## zkorejo

The Wood said:


> People get confused by this even when they lay it out, haha. Take your Orange Cassidy example:
> 
> -It may or may not be a fact that he sells the most merchandise. This doesn’t mean he is good for business. This could be an indictment on your business. It doesn’t mean he moves merch comparably to, say, a John Cena or a Steve Austin. It also doesn’t mean that he’s doing well compared to WWE wrestlers now.
> 
> So is it a “fact” that Orange Cassidy is this amazing merchandise mover if, say, he sold 36 shirts this week, which is way under the 500 Big E did?
> 
> Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy sells the most
> 
> Possible Fact: Orange Cassidy is over with the mutants.
> 
> Definite Opinion: Orange Cassidy is a big star and is over, deal with it.
> 
> You are basing your opinion on the AEW website. Cool. At least there’s some evidence for your opinion. But don’t go passing it off like being the cutest ant in the colony is some sort of undeniable prize.
> 
> Also, his numbers could be interpreted as bad. It’s my understanding that he loses viewers whenever he’s ham-fisted into main events. I’d say that’s bad, and it kind of proved my opinion — Orange Cassidy is the drizzling shits — correct, at least in terms of how it manifested itself in a business sense.
> 
> There’s nothing wrong with an opinion. Of course people are going to believe their own opinions. That doesn’t mean that all opinions are equally as subjective or as unfounded in reality as others.
> 
> That’s why it’s the “cynical” guys who get told “That’s just an opinion.” No one has got anything substantial to disagree with it. It’s much easier to state the obvious and dismiss it based on it being an opinion in the first place, which is just ridiculous.
> 
> The posters who actually have reasons for disagreeing with wrong opinions state their reasoning and then get spat on for “speaking like they talk in facts.” Yes, how dare those people speak with conviction and present their arguments firmly and with evidence.


AEW as a whole is nowhere as big as WWE. I dont think anyone expects them to be as profitable as WWE, let alone one of their wrestlers to be as big as WWE. WWE has been around for a long long time, AEW just started. OC has barely been on TV for a year. That being said, if he indeed is outselling AEW roster, it includes Jericho and Mox. Two of the biggest names in wrestling right now.

I dont think anyone called him a Steve Austin or John Cena levels of star, but he definitely is popular enough and it seems like he is making money for his company, enough to be getting prominent feuds. You give people what they want, if they like OC, AEW will use him unlike WWE, who cut the legs underneath their potential stars to make sure they dont get too big or bigger than their handpicked guys.

It is not my opinion that he is popular among the fans, there are multiple indicators discussed above why he is. Now did I say he is as big as Hogan or Austin or Rock? Hell no. But why would you expect that level of stardom for someone who has been in 2 feuds? Austin wasnt a star overnight, you have to build stars over time with good booking. Maybe he will be a big star for AEW? Maybe he will flunk out over time, we wouldn't know unless they try to push him.

Now when someone like you or the other guy I quoted, comes around and bashes OC, its fine by me. You dont have to like him, but atleast openly say that YOU dont like him. Instead you guys be all... "Well according to my crystal ball, he will destroy the wrestling industry because he is a geek and skinny etc.".


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> People on here really like to pretend that all opinions are equal, don't they?


They're not, but haters who keep predicting the downfall of AEW and keep being proven wrong are the least valuable ones


----------



## Wolf Mark

Mox continues to get big numbers for AEW. I'm not a huge fan but at the very least, they have this sure thing.


----------



## The Wood

zkorejo said:


> AEW as a whole is nowhere as big as WWE. I dont think anyone expects them to be as profitable as WWE, let alone one of their wrestlers to be as big as WWE. WWE has been around for a long long time, AEW just started. OC has barely been on TV for a year. That being said, if he indeed is outselling AEW roster, it includes Jericho and Mox. Two of the biggest names in wrestling right now.
> 
> I dont think anyone called him a Steve Austin or John Cena levels of star, but he definitely is popular enough and it seems like he is making money for his company, enough to be getting prominent feuds. You give people what they want, if they like OC, AEW will use him unlike WWE, who cut the legs underneath their potential stars to make sure they dont get too big or bigger than their handpicked guys.
> 
> It is not my opinion that he is popular among the fans, there are multiple indicators discussed above why he is. Now did I say he is as big as Hogan or Austin or Rock? Hell no. But why would you expect that level of stardom for someone who has been in 2 feuds? Austin wasnt a star overnight, you have to build stars over time with good booking. Maybe he will be a big star for AEW? Maybe he will flunk out over time, we wouldn't know unless they try to push him.
> 
> Now when someone like you or the other guy I quoted, comes around and bashes OC, its fine by me. You dont have to like him, but atleast openly say that YOU dont like him. Instead you guys be all... "Well according to my crystal ball, he will destroy the wrestling industry because he is a geek and skinny etc.".


You don’t get it. What you said is an opinion. By your standards, shouldn’t. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> They're not, but haters who keep predicting the downfall of AEW and keep being proven wrong are the least valuable ones


Hey, since when did you start lying? Show me anywhere I predicted the “downfall” of AEW, except where I was correct in suggesting the huge TV rights money wasn’t coming in (disappointingly early).


----------



## zkorejo

The Wood said:


> You don’t get it. What you said is an opinion. By your standards, shouldn’t.












Okay, nevermind. Have a great day ahead.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> I predict Jericho and JR are out of the company by the end of the year.
> 
> Fans abandon the show in droves and by WrestleMania the clock will be called on it ever having a chance to be competitive with even NXT.





The Wood said:


> Yes, because a company with contracted employees has never closed up before.


hey wood explain these predictions


----------



## TKO Wrestling

When you compare the XFLs ratings to the NFL with AEW v WWE, it really gives you a glimpse into just how awesome AEW is truly doing so far.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> When you compare the XFLs ratings to the NFL with AEW v WWE, it really gives you a glimpse into just how awesome AEW is truly doing so far.


What an odd thing to say... 

Why would anyone compare the XFL's ratings to the NFL?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NathanMayberry said:


> What an odd thing to say...
> 
> Why would anyone compare the XFL's ratings to the NFL?


Because the WWE is the NFL, right? I get told that over and over and over by the Australian WWE fans.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the WWE is the NFL, right? I get told that over and over and over by the Australian WWE fans.


WWE is the WWE.

Wrestling is niche. AEW will be on air for as long as TNT decides it wants to pay tens of millions a year for a show that gets ~700K viewers. That really doesn't mean its successful. There are shows that have done far better and were still canceled. WCW was doing better and it got cancelled. 

In a handful of episodes, it will be a year since Dynamite has gotten 1 million viewers. When Dynamite first launched with 1.4 million, the talk was about it rising up and challenging Raw.. now the challenge talk still remains but its transformed into hoping Raw's rating crashes to reach Dynamite's level.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NathanMayberry said:


> WWE is the WWE.
> 
> Wrestling is niche. AEW will be on air for as long as TNT decides it wants to pay tens of millions a year for a show that gets ~700K viewers. That really doesn't mean its successful. There are shows that have done far better and were still canceled.


No, these fans like to act like WWE is equivalent to NFL when in reality it isn't even close.

And, yes, TNT is making a killing off of AEW as is USA and WWE so both are safe until their demo's start dropping out of the top of the chart routinely.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Definition of Technician said:


> They're not, but haters who keep predicting the downfall of AEW and keep being proven wrong are the least valuable ones


That's the problem, it's like when people immediately jumped on the Rowan bullshit story as a way to shit on AEW, at that point it's obvious people had agendas.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> What an odd thing to say...
> 
> Why would anyone compare the XFL's ratings to the NFL?





NathanMayberry said:


> WWE is the WWE.
> 
> Wrestling is niche. AEW will be on air for as long as TNT decides it wants to pay tens of millions a year for a show that gets ~700K viewers. That really doesn't mean its successful. There are shows that have done far better and were still canceled. WCW was doing better and it got cancelled.
> 
> In a handful of episodes, it will be a year since Dynamite has gotten 1 million viewers. When Dynamite first launched with 1.4 million, the talk was about it rising up and challenging Raw.. now the challenge talk still remains but its transformed into hoping Raw's rating crashes to reach Dynamite's level.


The comparison is obvious. WWE is the NFL in this instance and AEW is the XFL. The giant is obviously going to draw bigger numbers than the smaller entity. You going off into a tangent about how AEW is gonna get cancelled is you just rambling. Any show is only on the air until said network decides to stop paying. AEW has been very successful from the network's standpoint. 700K-900K cable viewers is great if you're paying drastically less than the competition. WCW was far more expensive for Warner than AEW. There are different ways to look at success and you can't look at WWE's success as the yardstick to AEW's success. The way some of you think literally baffles me. USA and FOX paid a billion dollars and you think they're getting their money's worth? Hell no. But WWE is still successful right? Of course they are. They are still in a position to "rise up and challenge" RAW. Just because they're not in that position in the abnormally short pandemic ridden time frame that you expected doesn't mean that it won't eventually happen.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Wait why wouldn’t you compare NFL and XFL? If you can compare WWE and AEW you sure as hell can compare XFL and NFL. What a ridiculous thing to say.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ah, the XFL. I remember when idiots thought that garbage would last more than a season.

Good times.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW makes TV Guide’s list of ‘100 top shows right now’

only wrestling show on the list

position: in the 50s (no, not 50+ demo, lol)









The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now


TV Guide ranks the series that made us laugh, broke our hearts, and threw us a lifeline during these wild times




www.tvguide.com


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW makes TV Guide’s list of ‘100 top shows right now’
> 
> only wrestling show on the list
> 
> position: in the 50s (no, not 50+ demo, lol)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now
> 
> 
> TV Guide ranks the series that made us laugh, broke our hearts, and threw us a lifeline during these wild times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvguide.com


Because quality wise AEW is a good show lmao.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> Because quality wise AEW is a good show lmao.


always nice to get confirmation that us ‘superfans’ aren’t the only ones that think so


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW makes TV Guide’s list of ‘100 top shows right now’
> 
> only wrestling show on the list
> 
> position: in the 50s (no, not 50+ demo, lol)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now
> 
> 
> TV Guide ranks the series that made us laugh, broke our hearts, and threw us a lifeline during these wild times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvguide.com


To be fair, it doesn't have any competition in terms of quality wrestling. It's basically the best wrestling show on TV by default.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW makes TV Guide’s list of ‘100 top shows right now’
> 
> only wrestling show on the list
> 
> position: in the 50s (no, not 50+ demo, lol)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now
> 
> 
> TV Guide ranks the series that made us laugh, broke our hearts, and threw us a lifeline during these wild times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvguide.com


Impressive. They even mentioned Chris Jerichos meme lol.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> hey wood explain these predictions


Second one isn’t a prediction. I said I was wrong about the overtaking NXT one. When did I say abandon the show in droves? Because that has happened, depending on perspective. 1.4 million has been about halved. 

And when did I make the prediction about JR and Jericho leaving? Was that by the end of 2019? Because we’re not at the end of 2020 yet. But I’m happy to be wrong about that, because Jericho has clearly sacrificed all standards and JR is happy to hate what he is calling. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the WWE is the NFL, right? I get told that over and over and over by the Australian WWE fans.


I don’t think anyone has made that analogy in the way you are suggesting. You seem to have gotten confused by the arguments, I think.

Ways XFL and AEW are similar: #2 US positioning, survival depends on TV deals.

Ways they are dissimilar: Demand for an alternative, perception of genre.



zkorejo said:


> Okay, nevermind. Have a great day ahead.


You also seem to have gotten confused by your own arguments.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Second one isn’t a prediction. I said I was wrong about the overtaking NXT one. When did I say abandon the show in droves? Because that has happened, depending on perspective. 1.4 million has been about halved.
> 
> And when did I make the prediction about JR and Jericho leaving? Was that by the end of 2019? Because we’re not at the end of 2020 yet. But I’m happy to be wrong about that, because Jericho has clearly sacrificed all standards and JR is happy to hate what he is calling.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think anyone has made that analogy in the way you are suggesting. You seem to have gotten confused by the arguments, I think.
> 
> Ways XFL and AEW are similar: #2 US positioning, survival depends on TV deals.
> 
> Ways they are dissimilar: Demand for an alternative, perception of genre.
> 
> 
> 
> You also seem to have gotten confused by your own arguments.


It’s ok to be wrong sometimes bro. You said they would abandon in droves around January-February this year. their average has increased since then.

I know you wish for AEW to succeed; the product and its creative might disappoint you, but idk how you can undermine their performance in a very difficult time for wrestling. That link @LifeInCattleClass posted even called wrestling stagnant creatively (in the past few years) lol.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> It’s ok to be wrong sometimes bro. You said they would abandon in droves around January-February this year. their average has increased since then.
> 
> I know you wish for AEW to succeed; the product and its creative might disappoint you, but idk how you can undermine their performance in a very difficult time for wrestling. That link @LifeInCattleClass posted even called wrestling stagnant creatively (in the past few years) lol.


WWE is stagnant in the sense that they consistently do dumb as fuck shit.

The Roman Reigns turn is fucking baffling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> WWE is stagnant in the sense that they consistently do dumb as fuck shit.
> 
> The Roman Reigns turn is fucking baffling.


I bet the merchandise revenue for Reigns dried up since he hasn’t been on TV. Plus those ratings probably had Vince desperate. 

we will see if it ends up like when Austin turned heel and joined wcw. Or if it turns out like when HBK threw Janetty through the barbershop window.

I definitely welcomed the decision to turn heel. They’ve got the A-player in McIntyre and the merch mover in Wyatt.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW makes TV Guide’s list of ‘100 top shows right now’
> 
> only wrestling show on the list
> 
> position: in the 50s (no, not 50+ demo, lol)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now
> 
> 
> TV Guide ranks the series that made us laugh, broke our hearts, and threw us a lifeline during these wild times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvguide.com


It is quite surprising (in a good way) to see it featured in a mainstream list like that. They put The Mandalorian way too low on that list though heh.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> It is quite surprising (in a good way) to see it featured in a mainstream list like that. They put The Mandalorian way too low on that list though heh.


i haven’t watched that - heard good things

was it good? I’m not a big star wars nut though

my sci-fi tastes skew more towards Blade Runner type


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i haven’t watched that - heard good things
> 
> was it good? I’m not a big star wars nut though
> 
> my sci-fi tastes skew more towards Blade Runner type


I really liked it. I absolutely hate most of the prequel, sequel trilogies, and Solo but LOVED Rogue One.

Star Wars was originally a western and they really played into that theme for The Mandalorian. I would highly recommend at least checking it out. It is definitely not written just for the fans that can tell you every model of droid in every scene etc, heh.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I really liked it. I absolutely hate most of the prequel, sequel trilogies, and Solo but LOVED Rogue One.
> 
> Star Wars was originally a western and they really played into that theme for The Mandalorian. I would highly recommend at least checking it out. It is definitely not written just for the fans that can tell you every model of droid in every scene etc, heh.


gotcha - that has me interested then

i never mind fan-service / they are the ones bringing in the bucks

but if its still easy to watch for non-fans, and kinda plays up the ‘lone gun / scifi’ element - i will give it a 2 episode shot

thanks mate


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> gotcha - that has me interested then
> 
> i never mind fan-service / they are the ones bringing in the bucks
> 
> but if its still easy to watch for non-fans, and kinda plays up the ‘lone gun / scifi’ element - i will give it a 2 episode shot
> 
> thanks mate


Yeah there is plenty of fan service too given the hardcore nerds love Boba Fett, and tons of callbacks happening for the super fans to notice, but those things are not essential to the story or distracting.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> WWE is stagnant in the sense that they consistently do dumb as fuck shit.
> 
> The Roman Reigns turn is fucking baffling.


I hate Roman and do not watch WWE but there was nothing else for him to do. I actually think this was a smart thing to do, it may infuse some new energy into their shows. Although it should have happened a long time ago.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> I bet the merchandise revenue for Reigns dried up since he hasn’t been on TV. Plus those ratings probably had Vince desperate.
> 
> we will see if it ends up like when Austin turned heel and joined wcw. Or if it turns out like when HBK threw Janetty through the barbershop window.
> 
> I definitely welcomed the decision to turn heel. They’ve got the A-player in McIntyre and the merch mover in Wyatt.


I like Reigns a lot, but not turning him heel for 5 years and only doing it after he beat cancer and was getting over as hell as a natural baby face is the epitome of WWE stupid shit.

Reigns will do great in the role because he's Roman Reigns, but logically, it was dumb as hell.


----------



## Bosnian21

RapShepard said:


> It hasn't grown because its virtually identical to the WWE. If you stopped watching because you didn't like what the WWE had to offer, AEW isn't doing anything substantially different enough to entice you back. To someone not in the know their product is indistinguishable from the WWE and if you're a causal WWE viewer they're giving you more than enough content to watch.


I disagree. For me, WWE is much more cringe (although both shows have cringe moments, which AEW needs to cut down on to draw more casuals) and WWE is way more sterile. Everyone feels like they’re on the same level to an extent. Also the promos suck compared to WWE for me.


----------



## Erik.

Main differences between the two for me are the fact that AEW doesn't tend to insult your intelligence and it lets you know what's going on from week to week - of course there is the verbiage where AEW doesn't just sound like a company spouting buzzwords and catchphrases.

I look it at as AEW is stupid fun. WWE is just stupid.

WWE will always have the pick of the fans and the pick of the wrestlers out there for the most part because of who they are. They are the number one company. When people say wrestling to the average guy, they will respond back with 'WWE?' as if that's the only wrestling company that genuinely exists. That's not going to go away within less than a year of AEW existing - this is years and years down the line we're talking.

Will AEW 'grow' their fanbase? Of course if you go solely off of ratings in America and basing it off just those who have cable, it'll obviously show they haven't but I wouldn't be amazed if they haven't already grown that fanbase. Especially globally.

I'd love for them to be able to show they've got a million viewers each week - but personallly, I couldn't care less. I rarely watch Dynamite live simply because I don't want to stay up until 3am watching wrestling if I am honest with you. So there's already one person out of the hundreds of thousands who watch it, not watching it live.... and I am not the only one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Main differences between the two for me are the fact that AEW doesn't tend to insult your intelligence and it lets you know what's going on from week to week


Look, I don't want to start a war of words on here but how can anyone say this?

AEW insults peoples intelligence all the time. They had a TV feud where a 33 year old man and his 34 year old best friend had a feud with some gangsters over one mans mum's minivan that got destroyed.

They've got a 150 pound guy getting pinfalls on former World Champions who have 70-80 pounds on them. A 5'8 160 pound guy is in a long term feud with a jacked up 6'0 280 pound guy.

Don't forget Big Swole getting suspended for 3 weeks for "kidnapping" when she simply drove Britt Baker out of a building and dumped her in a bin whilst during the very same time period we had two guys steal a car from two other wrestlers and went unpunished. On the same shows we had Lance Archer assaulting innocent people weekly without any punishment.

That's the epitome of insulting the intelligence. In regards to letting us know what goes on week to week that's not exactly true either. Stuff gets randomly dropped all the time. I have no issue with people liking the product but lets not pretend that AEW is filled with stories that make you think and doesn't insult the normal person.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Look, I don't want to start a war of words on here but how can anyone say this?
> 
> AEW insults peoples intelligence all the time. They had a TV feud where a 33 year old man and his 34 year old best friend had a feud with some gangsters over one mans mum's minivan that got destroyed.
> 
> *I mean, have you watched the news lately? AEW was spot on for this one. *
> 
> They've got a 150 pound guy getting pinfalls on former World Champions who have 70-80 pounds on them. A 5'8 160 pound guy is in a long term feud with a jacked up 6'0 280 pound guy.
> 
> *Rey Mysterio got a lot more famous by pinning Kevin Nash. Shawn Michaels pinned the foot taller Undertaker. I see nothing wrong with Darby Allin feuding with Brian Cage, Adam Cole had a guy 140 lbs bigger than him down quite a bit around a month ago. Now, if you are talking Marko...but with Darby, nah, I think you just don't like him. But what they are doing with him is correct.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

What news? Have gangsters been stealing minivans?

Rey Mysterio is the greatest luchadore of all time and Shawn Michaels was 6'0 and over 200 pounds. Whilst I personally don't agree with the booking at least in terms of kayfabe you can kind of buy the greatest luchadore of all time fluking a win over Kevin Nash or a 6'0 World Champion managing to pull it out against Taker.

Darby doesn't have those runs on the board, if he was someone like Jeff Hardy who had 2-3 World Titles to his name despite being smaller then I'd be more okay with it but reality is Darby is a smaller guy being competitive with a guy that is 120 pounds heavier than him. 

By the way, I don't mind Darby as a character. I was clamouring for AEW to actually invest some time into telling his story.


----------



## Y2K23

DaSlacker said:


> In all honesty I think WWE likes AEW in its current position - Dynamite's 750,000 rating being their version of TNA's 1.2 rating.That might change if Raw and SmackDown decline in viewership to the point it becomes a race to the bottom.
> 
> As it is right now it's a useful pseudo character development platform. Cody, MJF, Adam Page, Ricky Starks, Jack Perry would be huge acquisitions for WWE.


Except Cody was already in WWE and that went well. I cant even imagine the ways WWE would ruin MJF. No thank you. All those guys are better off in AEW


----------



## Mister Sinister

Still no quarters?


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> It’s ok to be wrong sometimes bro. You said they would abandon in droves around January-February this year. their average has increased since then.
> 
> I know you wish for AEW to succeed; the product and its creative might disappoint you, but idk how you can undermine their performance in a very difficult time for wrestling. That link @LifeInCattleClass posted even called wrestling stagnant creatively (in the past few years) lol.


Of course it's okay to be wrong. Who said it wasn't? I'm not impressed by anyone's performance, really. Wrestling has set its own low standards, so I hold them responsible for those low standards. 



Erik. said:


> Main differences between the two for me are the fact that AEW doesn't tend to insult your intelligence


If AEW does not insult your intelligence, you deserve it.


----------



## Pippen94

Mjf article in NY post








AEW’s MJF is the wrestling ‘pain in the ass’ everyone loves to hate


Maxwell Jacob Friedman thinks he’s better than you and makes sure you know it. That simple approach and his throwback delivery has made the 24-year-old Plainview, Long Island native — known s…




www.google.com


----------



## The Wood

Tony Khan spending the big bucks to get one of his few good acts mentioned somewhere. Smart, but for nought. MJF has become a watered down WWE style act. He's getting closer to The Miz.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> Mjf article in NY post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW’s MJF is the wrestling ‘pain in the ass’ everyone loves to hate
> 
> 
> Maxwell Jacob Friedman thinks he’s better than you and makes sure you know it. That simple approach and his throwback delivery has made the 24-year-old Plainview, Long Island native — known s…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Very impressive. MJF has also made TMZ. If there’s anyone to break into mainstream it’s MJF


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Orange Cassidy has more potential for mainstream appeal, there's a reason why he's the only guy outside of Jericho and Mox on AEW's YouTube page that consistently does multiple millions of views on his videos.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Orange Cassidy has more potential for mainstream appeal, there's a reason why he's the only guy outside of Jericho and Mox on AEW's YouTube page that consistently does multiple millions of views on his videos.


By that same measure since Kenny Omega, Cody and the Young Bucks don't have videos with multiple millions of views on their YouTube videos does that prove that they aren't stars and have little potential for mainstream appeal?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NathanMayberry said:


> By that same measure since Kenny Omega, Cody and the Young Bucks don't have videos with multiple millions of views on their YouTube videos does that prove that they aren't stars and have little potential for mainstream appeal?


I didn't say that, it's just one metric I was looking at, Orange Cassidy has appeal.

I think Cassidy and Omega are the two that can be big time stars.


----------



## Garty

NathanMayberry said:


> By that same measure since Kenny Omega, Cody and the Young Bucks don't have videos with multiple millions of views on their YouTube videos does that prove that they aren't stars and have little potential for mainstream appeal?


Some of you guys...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Orange Cassidy has more potential for mainstream appeal, there's a reason why he's the only guy outside of Jericho and Mox on AEW's YouTube page that consistently does multiple millions of views on his videos.


I think OC will be one of those guys who go under the radar until he retires. Only then will people realise his genius. I am very sure he will influence a lot of future talent.


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> I think OC will be one of those guys who go under the radar until he retires. Only then will people realise his genius. I am very sure he will influence a lot of future talent.


The gimmick has a ton of potential and cross over appeal in this meme and social media era. But because he's such a weak pro wrestler - the Jericho matches and lack of audiences exposed him - it's become very divisive and overexposed.


----------



## Prosper

Garty said:


> Some of you guys...


They try so hard bruh it’s crazy


----------



## Optikk is All Elite




----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## Pippen94

Seemed to sacrificed TV number for ppv number tonight. Episode was extended ad for all out


----------



## TD Stinger

Despite being pedestrian show last night, with no competition I expect a pretty good rating for last night's show. The last 2 weeks aside, for the most part I think AEW has done a good job of building All Out, though I will say last night did more to get me less interested in some matches than it did help.


----------



## Erik.

I reckon it'll be about 730k maximum.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Should be 900k / 0.34 - 0.36

even with a lame show

far lower and i’ll be disappointed - and they should be too


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict .37


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

750k - 0.32


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> 750k - 0.32


why? Basketball finals?

or just people dropping off during the show?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why? Basketball finals?
> 
> or just people dropping off during the show?


Ratings are just unpredictable. You predict one way - it goes the other way.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Ratings are just unpredictable. You predict one way - it goes the other way.


lol, fair play


----------



## La Parka

It would be better for AEW if less people watched that show.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, fair play


the thing is, the minority is always the most vocal. The show probably did draw fairly well and I can imagine a lot of casuals being happy with it.


----------



## EmbassyForever

870K - 0.32, imo.


----------



## One Shed

I think the rating will be high. They were unopposed and it was go home show to a PPV. The show sucked but everyone tuned in...at least at first. I expect the quarter hours to be telling on this one. Likely started high and then went down, but that is most weeks anyway.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Surely anything under 1m is a disappointment. They were unopposed, go home show to a massive PPV and back on their regular timeslot.

If NXT is getting 849k unopposed which is over 20% compared to avg rating, then AEW should be up to a million in similar circumstances.

No excuses otherwise.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I agree anything under a million will be disappointing.


----------



## IamMark




----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Should be 900k / 0.34 - 0.36
> 
> even with a lame show
> 
> far lower and i’ll be disappointed - and they should be too


well done


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Oof. Not good. Didn't they do 900k against NXT a few weeks back? Unopposed 900k should be panic stations in Jacksonville.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> well done


lol, nailed it


----------



## Erik.

Really need to separate both NXT and AEW, in my opinion and let them prosper. 

Post All Out number next week will be interesting....


----------



## Aedubya

.92 is good!


----------



## Dark Emperor

Decent enough rating but no real spike from being unopposed. I think that 1m mark is gonna be hard to achieve unless they sign a big star and make a big promotion out of it.


----------



## bdon

I’m not sure what the fuck people expected with these 1m viewership predictions and shit. The shows had not been good The prior two weeks with the NBA playoffs fucking up the scheduling, then you run a disjointed show last night that was only good in the Kenny/Hangman and Mox/MJF segments.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Really need to separate both NXT and AEW, in my opinion and let them prosper.
> 
> Post All Out number next week will be interesting....


it’s unopposed again, right?

after a major PPV, where shit is gonna happen

over a mil - will be

edit> kinda confirmed now the people who watch both shows are about 250k?


----------



## Prosper

928K is not bad for cable given that the show was below average. They were probably losing viewers all night. We can't really expect all the NXT cross viewers to jump to AEW all in one week either. I'm looking forward to the next 3 weeks to get a solid handle on what the cable audience looks like. Solid number last night though.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Really need to separate both NXT and AEW, in my opinion and let them prosper.
> 
> Post All Out number next week will be interesting....


I won’t be expecting anything incredible. They’re terrible at delivering on Fall Out shows and always half as their way through the 6 weeks of TV post-PPV.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oof. Not good. Didn't they do 900k against NXT a few weeks back? Unopposed 900k should be panic stations in Jacksonville.


Yo were hoping for less - admit it


----------



## Pippen94

Not bad for shill show for all out. If they ran a competitive main event imagine number


----------



## Dizzie

Not bad especially for what was advertised in advance for what was going to be on the show.

Post all out will be interesting to see if they can create some type of buzz off the back of the ppv.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I won’t be expecting anything incredible. They’re terrible at delivering on Fall Out shows and always half as their way through the 6 weeks of TV post-PPV.


AEW best ratings have always been the show right after a PPV.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Very good. The line up was weak and the show itself was awful.
Next week should be interesting, especially if something big happens.


----------



## PavelGaborik

They blew their shot at 1 mil with that garbage show. 

They have a legit shot next week going unopposed again.


----------



## 3venflow

The message is clear... MJF's lawyer is a bigger draw than NXT.

#MarkSterlingIsAllElite


----------



## Alright_Mate

Good number considering the majority of the show was shit.

They would have probably hit a million if last night’s card was better.


----------



## rbl85

Next week show is not live right ?


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> Next week show is not live right ?


Has to be - fallout from all out


----------



## Mister Sinister

They would have done a million if they had put on a stronger card with a cross feud tag match like Mox, OC, Allin and Hardy vs MJF, Jericho, Starks and Sammy. Wrestling matches do better teases/promotion than goofy Vince stuff like a contract signing or lawyer match. I could hear Vince in my head saying of the last couple weeks with the lawyer, "This is good shit."


----------



## Chan Hung

Actually considering the matches were boring and shit, they should cherish that rating.


----------



## Prosper

It'll be interesting to see the quarterlies, if this was the average, they may have started off hot, then lost cable viewers all night because of the lazy effort/NBA. But there is no doubt in my mind that they will eventually be doing 1.0 - 1.2 consistently if NXT moves permanently. They may do it without NXT moving honestly.



bdon said:


> I won’t be expecting anything incredible. They’re terrible at delivering on Fall Out shows and always half as their way through the 6 weeks of TV post-PPV.


I highly doubt it'll be as half assed as usual coming out of a PPV. Moxley/Archer if it happens, Cleaner Omega, 4 Horsemen, Hangman solo run, FTR/Bucks, Darby/Starks, Cage's next program, Eddie Kingston storyline, Jericho/OC will be over etc. Storylines are developing, fallouts are happening, and they have the Dynamite anniversary show to build to. Right after that they have to build to Full Gear.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

A milli next week if a surprise debut at All Out


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> It'll be interesting to see the quarterlies, if this was the average, they may have started off hot, then lost cable viewers all night because of the lazy effort/NBA. But there is no doubt in my mind that they will eventually be doing 1.0 - 1.2 consistently if NXT moves permanently. They may do it without NXT moving honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt it'll be as half assed as usual coming out of a PPV. Moxley/Archer if it happens, Cleaner Omega, 4 Horsemen, Hangman solo run, FTR/Bucks, Darby/Starks, Cage's next program, Eddie Kingston storyline, Jericho/OC will be over etc. Storylines are developing, fallouts are happening, and they have the Dynamite anniversary show to build to. Right after that they have to build to Full Gear.


Then why have the rest of their Fall Out shows been so shitty?


----------



## ShadowCounter

Why is everyone saying this show was unopposed? SYFY was running a repeat of NXT from the night before just 1 channel down. If you didn't know about the change in days you would have thought NXT switched networks for the night. Would that have caused a huge drastic change? No. A few thousand viewers or more? Yes. That said AEW kinda blew a golden opportunity here. This show was too up and down. They gotta stay hungry, especially if NXT retreats to Tuesday nights permanently.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oof. Not good. Didn't they do 900k against NXT a few weeks back? Unopposed 900k should be panic stations in Jacksonville.


Come on man what numbers are you really expecting, it's clear at the moment their ratings viewership audience isn't over a million. You're not giving them a true chance to impress you number wise


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oof. Not good. Didn't they do 900k against NXT a few weeks back? Unopposed 900k should be panic stations in Jacksonville.


fucking hell 😂😂😂 absolute mental case.


----------



## RapShepard

Delete


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Then why have the rest of their Fall Out shows been so shitty?


I don't remember what happened on all of them honestly, maybe you can direct me to those episodes. If they were bad, then I don't know why, what I'm saying though is that I think this time will be different, not denying that previous fall outs may have been on the weaker end.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> A milli next week if a surprise debut at All Out


Should get regardless depending on competition.


----------



## rbl85

30 of october 2019 : 759K
6 of november 2019 : 822K
Full Gear
13 of november 2019 : 957K

19 of february 2020 : 893K
26 of february 2020 : 865K
Revolution
4 of march 2020 : 906K

13 of may 2020 : 654K
20 of may 2020 : 701K
Double or Nothing
27 of may 2020 : 827K


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't remember what happened on all of them honestly, maybe you can direct me to those episodes. If they were bad, then I don't know why, what I'm saying though is that I think this time will be different, not denying that previous fall outs may have been on the weaker end.


Used last night's show to simply promote all out & drive up ppv buys


----------



## rexmundi

ShadowCounter said:


> Why is everyone saying this show was unopposed? SYFY was running a repeat of NXT from the night before just 1 channel down. If you didn't know about the change in days you would have thought NXT switched networks for the night. Would that have caused a huge drastic change? No. A few thousand viewers or more? Yes. That said AEW kinda blew a golden opportunity here. This show was too up and down. They gotta stay hungry, especially if NXT retreats to Tuesday nights permanently.


 NXT ranked 125th and did 183K with a .04 demo last night. So it could be said that AEW beat nxt head to head last night by 745K and .32 in the demo. Bah Gawd, will somebody stop this damn war already?!!


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> 30 of october 2019 : 759K
> 6 of november 2019 : 822K
> Full Gear
> 13 of november 2019 : 957K
> 
> 19 of february 2020 : 893K
> 26 of february 2020 : 865K
> Revolution
> 4 of march 2020 : 906K
> 
> 13 of may 2020 : 654K
> 20 of may 2020 : 701K
> Double or Nothing
> 27 of may 2020 : 827K


Very interesting pattern.


----------



## Not Lying

optikk sucks said:


> A milli next week if a surprise debut at All Out


I think next week they do 1m with or with no surprise. It's the fall out show and they usually come back with a strong show after a mess like this.


----------



## taker1986

Great rating considering it was up against the NBA. Only the 12-34 Female kept them from cracking 1 million.


----------



## taker1986

Also isn't Dynamite on Wed and Thur next week or is that the week after??


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> 30 of october 2019 : 759K
> 6 of november 2019 : 822K
> Full Gear
> 13 of november 2019 : 957K
> 
> 19 of february 2020 : 893K
> 26 of february 2020 : 865K
> Revolution
> 4 of march 2020 : 906K
> 
> 13 of may 2020 : 654K
> 20 of may 2020 : 701K
> Double or Nothing
> 27 of may 2020 : 827K


So judging by that then, they SHOULD be increasing next week.

And considering that we could have a few interesting stories off the back of All Out and the promise of surprises over the next week, next weeks number should be very interesting when unopposed by NXT again....


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't remember what happened on all of them honestly, maybe you can direct me to those episodes. If they were bad, then I don't know why, what I'm saying though is that I think this time will be different, not denying that previous fall outs may have been on the weaker end.


As @rbl85 has pointed out, they apparently did great numbers coming out of the PPV. So, maybe we should expect 1-1.2 million next week.

The issue I had was that the Fall Out shows typically have been littered with jobbers. After Full Gear, do we get some kind of Omega reaction to his match with Moxley? No, he’s off tv for 2 weeks, but we got Nakazawa. We get a random as fuck introduction of the Butcher and Blade cutting through the ring where only Excalibur knows who they are.

Revolution comes and goes, and we get Dustin in a “hot” tag match with Hangman Page for the main event. We get QT Marshall. Etc etc.

They litter their Fall Out shows with jobbers and unimportant pieces of the story when everyone is tuning in wanting, NEEDING, more of the story they saw at the PPV, and these fuckers fail to deliver what the crowd is dying to see and steamroll that momentum upward, which sends them into a downward spiral back towards 650k until they put their foot on the gas again for 6 weeks to build the PPV. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Really hoping they come out of the PPV with their foot to the gas. They might be able to build enough momentum to actually...contend with Monday and Friday numbers by the time Full Gear 2 rolls around if they do


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> 30 of october 2019 : 759K
> 6 of november 2019 : 822K
> Full Gear
> 13 of november 2019 : 957K
> 
> 19 of february 2020 : 893K
> 26 of february 2020 : 865K
> Revolution
> 4 of march 2020 : 906K
> 
> 13 of may 2020 : 654K
> 20 of may 2020 : 701K
> Double or Nothing
> 27 of may 2020 : 827K


Care to show where the ratings went in the following shows after the Fall Out shows filled with Nakazawa, Dustin, QT, etc?


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Care to show where the ratings went in the following shows after the Fall Out shows filled with Nakazawa, Dustin, QT, etc?


You can look yourself if you want to know, i don't really have the time to look in details.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> You can look yourself if you want to know, i don't really have the time to look in details.


But you had time to look up these in a hurry? Ok.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> I think next week they do 1m with or with no surprise. It's the fall out show and they usually come back with a strong show after a mess like this.





Pippen94 said:


> Should get regardless depending on competition.


lets hope so. i remember discussing this with life and i thought they could break a milli by end of the year.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> lets hope so. i remember discussing this with life and i thought they could break a milli by end of the year.


If they book the next 3-5 weeks like we know they CAN, then they will absolutely top the 1 million mark.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> If they book the next 3-5 weeks like we know they CAN, then they will absolutely top the 1 million mark.


we know they can, but after PPVs we know what happens.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oof. Not good. Didn't they do 900k against NXT a few weeks back? Unopposed 900k should be panic stations in Jacksonville.


You're too predictable....of course you'd be THAT guy......

Please tell us how you would have booked this better LMFAO(LIKE ANYONE CARES)


Funny.....where's all the whiners crying yesterday how this show would be lucky to get 600k???


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> As @rbl85 has pointed out, they apparently did great numbers coming out of the PPV. So, maybe we should expect 1-1.2 million next week.
> 
> The issue I had was that the Fall Out shows typically have been littered with jobbers. After Full Gear, do we get some kind of Omega reaction to his match with Moxley? No, he’s off tv for 2 weeks, but we got Nakazawa. We get a random as fuck introduction of the Butcher and Blade cutting through the ring where only Excalibur knows who they are.
> 
> Revolution comes and goes, and we get Dustin in a “hot” tag match with Hangman Page for the main event. We get QT Marshall. Etc etc.
> 
> They litter their Fall Out shows with jobbers and unimportant pieces of the story when everyone is tuning in wanting, NEEDING, more of the story they saw at the PPV, and these fuckers fail to deliver what the crowd is dying to see and steamroll that momentum upward, which sends them into a downward spiral back towards 650k until they put their foot on the gas again for 6 weeks to build the PPV. Lather, rinse, repeat.
> 
> Really hoping they come out of the PPV with their foot to the gas. They might be able to build enough momentum to actually...contend with Monday and Friday numbers by the time Full Gear 2 rolls around if they do


I remember the Butcher and Blade episode now that you brought it up haha. Let’s hope they break that trend.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> lets hope so. i remember discussing this with life and i thought they could break a milli by end of the year.


You're right should doesn't mean they will. Ppv fallouts give biggest ratings bump


----------



## Kentucky34

Not a good number.

900k is the limit for AEW. I think they will go between 600k - 800k most weeks.


----------



## Joe Gill

in the future with live crowds and no direct competition from WWE I can see dynamite averaging around 1 million viewers per episode... which would be a huge success.


----------



## Peerless

Awful show yesterday. I expect a free-fall when it comes to the quarter ratings.


----------



## NathanMayberry

I'm really surprised at how little of the NXT audience Dynamite was able to pull in. 

The biggest takeaway from this is that unless AEW plans on getting actual stars and not WWE rejects or Indy midgets, Dynamite will never consistently average 1 million viewers. At the rate they're going I see them turning more fans away from their product than bringing them to it.


----------



## thorn123

Good number ... pity the show wasn’t their best ... truth is no one knows what future ratings will be ... unless their is another austin or hogan type star, I can’t see the needle change. but like I said, nobody knows.


----------



## Randy Lahey

This rating shows there's very little crossover between NXT and AEW. NXT has a bunch of old viewers and hardly anyone young. AEW is the opposite. I suppose AEW could pick up some of those old viewers, but really the old fans of WWE aren't switching.


----------



## Pippen94

NBA Legend Reggie Miller Says His Son Is Obsessed With Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy - Wrestling Inc.


NBA legend Reggie Miller had big praise for AEW stars Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy during Thursday night’s broadcast of the NBA Playoffs on TNT. While calling Game 1 of the Western Conference semifinals between the Los Angeles Clippers and Denver Nuggets, Miller noted that his son was a big fan of...




www.google.com


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> NBA Legend Reggie Miller Says His Son Is Obsessed With Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> NBA legend Reggie Miller had big praise for AEW stars Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy during Thursday night’s broadcast of the NBA Playoffs on TNT. While calling Game 1 of the Western Conference semifinals between the Los Angeles Clippers and Denver Nuggets, Miller noted that his son was a big fan of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


No, AEW is unlikely to win over whatever remains of WWE’s older crowd. If they’re still watching, they will watch whatever the company puts out.

But as we see with Reggie, my son LOVES AEW. He has “seen” WWE clips when searching AEW stuff on YouTube, but he has never really watched Raw, NXT, or SmackDown.

AEW is building potential lifelong fans that can grow up or older with AEW, much like we saw in the late 90s.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> No, AEW is unlikely to win over whatever remains of WWE’s older crowd. If they’re still watching, they will watch whatever the company puts out.
> 
> But as we see with Reggie, my son LOVES AEW. He has “seen” WWE clips when searching AEW stuff on YouTube, but he has never really watched Raw, NXT, or SmackDown.
> 
> AEW is building potential lifelong fans that can grow up or older with AEW, much like we saw in the late 90s.


I said this a few months back.

Best opportunity for AEW to gain new fans was always going to be from kids growing up - because those are the people who find wrestling and enjoy it. It's rare you get an adult tune into wrestling for the first time and just enjoy what they see and become an avid viewer. I'm willing to bet 90% of those who post on here became fans of wrestling when they were children.

We won't really see the case for this for perhaps another 5-10 years - as a child, there's no tribalism between companies. You stumble across something one day and you just enjoy it. You don't stop watching Cartoon Network because you watched Nickelodean etc. etc.


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> NBA Legend Reggie Miller Says His Son Is Obsessed With Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> NBA legend Reggie Miller had big praise for AEW stars Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy during Thursday night’s broadcast of the NBA Playoffs on TNT. While calling Game 1 of the Western Conference semifinals between the Los Angeles Clippers and Denver Nuggets, Miller noted that his son was a big fan of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301720070943633410


----------



## fabi1982

TNT paid employees plug a TNT show which has a big PPV on Saturday...

If this would be done for WWE all people would scream nepotism, just wow how easy the AEW fanbase either believe everything positive AEW or just dont want to see the obvious.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> TNT paid employees plug a TNT show which has a big PPV on Saturday...
> 
> If this would be done for WWE all people would scream nepotism, just wow how easy the AEW fanbase either believe everything positive AEW or just dont want to see the obvious.


You understand this is the AEW section, right?

We don't give a shit about WWE.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> You understand this is the AEW section, right?
> 
> We don't give a shit about WWE.


I know, but it is written by everyone that the great Reggy Miller is saying this because it is the truth and thats baffeling me. This is called playful advertising, but hey who am I to judge.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Why are anti AEW marks like @fabi1982 so insistent on bringing up WWE


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> I know, but it is written by everyone that the great Reggy Miller is saying this because it is the truth and thats baffeling me. This is called playful advertising, but hey who am I to judge.


You're getting upset because I've posted someone advertising AEW in an AEW thread in the AEW section?

I couldn't give a shit about WWE or how WWE use the USA network to promote their events - nor would I care enough to post in the WWE section if someone brought it up. 

Are you feeling okay?


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> Why are anti AEW marks like @fabi1982 so insistent on bringing up WWE


I brought it up for a comparison to show the double standards, but I forgot that this is a militant place where everyone either has to believe whatever is said ot gets executed on the streets


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> Why are anti AEW marks like @fabi1982 so insistent on bringing up WWE


I mean, let's not act like that wasn't the modus operandi of you guys for months on end regarding anyone who spoke negatively about AEW.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> You're getting upset because I've posted someone advertising AEW in an AEW thread in the AEW section?
> 
> I couldn't give a shit about WWE or how WWE use the USA network to promote their events - nor would I care enough to post in the WWE section if someone brought it up.
> 
> Are you feeling okay?


Where did I get upset? But hey whatever makes you happy  keep making fun of me, I love that.


----------



## Erik.

fabi1982 said:


> Where did I get upset? But hey whatever makes you happy  keep making fun of me, I love that.


I'm very happy.

AEW are doing better than expected, ratings are on the rise, great PPV on the way, brilliant advertising during basketball games.

Love it.

Maybe later, I'll go over into the WWE section and shit on something that I don't watch - just to see if it makes me as happy as it makes you.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> I brought it up for a comparison to show the double standards, but I forgot that this is a militant place where everyone either has to believe whatever is said ot gets executed on the streets


Looks like you’re the one who believes that.


----------



## fabi1982

Erik. said:


> I'm very happy.
> 
> AEW are doing better than expected, ratings are on the rise, great PPV on the way, brilliant advertising during basketball games.
> 
> Love it.
> 
> Maybe later, I'll go over into the WWE section and shit on something that I don't watch - just to see if it makes me as happy as it makes you.


I watch every week, because as many others there are things to like, love. And just to give you some input, I wasnt just quoting you, I just wanted to give feedback on that video/the article posted by retardedboy that this is just an ad and no genuine comment from a star. You just hung yourself up on the WWE part not even thinking about it. But again who am I to judge. And glad you are happy


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> Looks like you’re the one who believes that.


Believe what? That any negative comment in this part of the forum gets heated on without any kind of thinking about what was written. You and the other dude just showed that. So...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Believe what? That any negative comment in this part of the forum gets heated on without any kind of thinking about what was written. You and the other dude just showed that. So...


-complains about people showing positivity towards AEW
-compares it to the WWE
-”I forgot it’s WWE vs AEW here”

lmao


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> -complains about people showing positivity towards AEW
> -compares it to the WWE
> -”I forgot it’s WWE vs AEW here”
> 
> lmao


You know what complaining means? All I did was giving my feedback on that advertising being praised by „the media“ as a big win, same as the tv guide stuff. I dont take this stuff serious as you guys, this seems to be forgotten. I just love to see you guys freak out that „someone you dont know on the internet makes you waste time to make him feel bad“ 

edit: and justgo through this thread and tell me that I am the only one bringing up WWE comparison. „Wohoo we beat NXT“ „NXT is dead look at this rating“. Just funny how this is forgotten when „the other side“ does it


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> You know what complaining means? All I did was giving my feedback on that advertising being praised by „the media“ as a big win, same as the tv guide stuff. I dont take this stuff serious as you guys, this seems to be forgotten. I just love to see you guys freak out that „someone you dont know on the internet makes you waste time to make him feel bad“
> 
> edit: and justgo through this thread and tell me that I am the only one bringing up WWE comparison. „Wohoo we beat NXT“ „NXT is dead look at this rating“. Just funny how this is forgotten when „the other side“ does it


The comparison and “boohoo what about WWE” is clearly complaining. You are obviously very salty that WWEs fans are overly negative, while AEW fans are positive.


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> The comparison and “boohoo what about WWE” is clearly complaining. You are obviously very salty that WWEs fans are overly negative, while AEW fans are positive.


Why should anyone be salty about something no one has any input in. I just write in a forum because I have the time. I dont care if AEW/WWE/NJPW/TNA loses or wins whatever, I just want to be sports entertained by my guilty pleasure


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> Why should anyone be salty about something no one has any input in. I just write in a forum because I have the time. I dont care if AEW/WWE/NJPW/TNA loses or wins whatever, I just want to be sports entertained by my guilty pleasure


Cool. Me too. Trust me I’m fed up of the WWE moaners just as much as you. But I don’t see the need to carry the negativity over from twitter and WWE section to this section.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Maybe later, I'll go over into the WWE section and shit on something that I don't watch - just to see if it makes me as happy as it makes you.


mate.... let’s watch RAW youtube highlights, listen to a meltzer podcast and just go into our feelings on the Raw thread.

’if AEW did this, then.....’ 

after that we can fantasy book NWA and Impact shows on their threads  

sounds like a fun time.... i might get why people do this


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> I said this a few months back.
> 
> Best opportunity for AEW to gain new fans was always going to be from kids growing up - because those are the people who find wrestling and enjoy it. It's rare you get an adult tune into wrestling for the first time and just enjoy what they see and become an avid viewer. I'm willing to bet 90% of those who post on here became fans of wrestling when they were children.
> 
> We won't really see the case for this for perhaps another 5-10 years - as a child, there's no tribalism between companies. You stumble across something one day and you just enjoy it. You don't stop watching Cartoon Network because you watched Nickelodean etc. etc.


AEW is easier to digest for kids because it's only one A show per week and a C show exhibition of wrestlers on Dark. 

WWE is oversaturated as hell, with its 3 A shows per shows and 20 special events. They're burning kids out before they hit the age of 10. 

Khan is definitely playing the long game.


----------



## imthegame19

It's interesting on how the show did so much better during the 2nd hour. I wonder what was on a competition during the first hour? Or did people not realize it was on until 8?

The fact that Mox/Mark Sterling had near million viewers watching. Shows big difference Dynamite vs NXT head to head. There's no doubt that match would have lost a ton of viewers if NXT had decent main event. But instead people will tune into see a star beat up a fake lawyer in comedy main event. Especially since they are smart enough to know the match will have MJF/Mox showdown at the end. 

Jericho/Cassidy, Sammy/Hardy and Battle Royal build did well too.


Q1: 883k / 445k (Best Friends/PnP)

Q2: 832k / 430k (start of 8 Man)

Q3: 860k / 434k (finish of 8 Man; Omega interview)

Q4: 899k / 445k (end of Omega/FTR/Page; Jericho/Janela)

Q5: 1.008M / 508k (Jericho/OC brawl; Hardy/Sammy video; Taz/Jake/Eddie promo)

Q6: 972k / 482k (rest of the brawl; Brodie video; Rosa/Deeb)

Q7: 974k / 501k (finish Rosa/Deeb; Mox promo; Swole/Britt)

Q8: 999k / 505k (Mox/Sterling and MJF beatdown)


----------



## Erik.

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: 883k / 445k (Best Friends/PnP)
> 
> Q2: 832k / 430k (start of 8 Man)
> 
> Q3: 860k / 434k (finish of 8 Man; Omega interview)
> 
> Q4: 899k / 445k (end of Omega/FTR/Page; Jericho/Janela)
> 
> Q5: 1.008M / 508k (Jericho/OC brawl; Hardy/Sammy video; Taz/Jake/Eddie promo)
> 
> Q6: 972k / 482k (rest of the brawl; Brodie video; Rosa/Deeb)
> 
> Q7: 974k / 501k (finish Rosa/Deeb; Mox promo; Swole/Britt)
> 
> Q8: 999k / 505k (Mox/Sterling and MJF beatdown)


Wow - that last hour is pretty incredible.

If All Out is a hit, there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't get a million next week unopposed.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jericho and OC drew a million that’s crazy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oh wow.... lots of people gonna hate on that prime OC quarter.... with Jelly Janelly even


----------



## imthegame19

Erik. said:


> Wow - that last hour is pretty incredible.
> 
> If All Out is a hit, there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't get a million next week unopposed.


Lol ya it's almost like 100,000 people or so forgot it was on this Wednesday during the first hour. Because right at 8 it had big jump and was pretty steady after that. 

I think it's pretty agreed upon that this weeks show was one of their weaker shows this year. So doing 928 and .36 is a good number. Because up against NXT this show would have been lucky to do 750 or .28 in 18 to 49. Coming off PPV where AEW always sees ratings bump and not going head to head with first run NXT. Next week will be disappointing if they don't reach million viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’m glad so many people saw that Mox beatdown - it was a great end to the show


----------



## 3venflow

So it built up momentum in the ratings rather than the opposite that many predicted on here? Interesting!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Something significant has to happen at All Out, which trends and becomes pro-wrestling talk for the next week. If this happens, I think it’s possible to get even more than just a million. Maybe 1.2-1.3. There’s more eyes on the product right now since prior the pandemic.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Something significant has to happen at All Out, which trends and becomes pro-wrestling talk for the next week. If this happens, I think it’s possible to get even more than just a million. Maybe 1.2-1.3. There’s more eyes on the product right now since prior the pandemic.


Listening to Tk talk.... it seems like there will be

but he has become super promotor pro-boi / so who knows if its BS

Any takes and what will be big enough?

Legendary tier - Brock or CM punk debut (neither happening)
Epic Tier - Kenny swerve turns and joins FTR / Cody forms the 4HM at the end of show / Elite turn on Hangman
Rare tier - MJF wins the champ / Miroslav makes debut / Kenny attacks Mox at end
Common tier - Archer or Pac wins Casino Battle

These are the ‘buzz-worthy’ make em over A mil things that can happen


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Listening to Tk talk.... it seems like there will be
> 
> but he has become super promotor pro-boi / so who knows if its BS
> 
> Any takes and what will be big enough?
> 
> Legendary tier - Brock or CM punk debut (neither happening)
> Epic Tier - Kenny swerve turns and joins FTR / Cody forms the 4HM at the end of show / Elite turn on Hangman
> Rare tier - MJF wins the champ / Miroslav makes debut / Kenny attacks Mox at end
> Common tier - Archer or Pac wins Casino Battle
> 
> These are the ‘buzz-worthy’ make em over A mil things that can happen


I’d agree with all of these being buzz worthy. I think the common tier would only draw if they promote the title match for next week. Otherwise Archer is a nobody and


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Listening to Tk talk.... it seems like there will be
> 
> but he has become super promotor pro-boi / so who knows if its BS
> 
> Any takes and what will be big enough?
> 
> Legendary tier - Brock or CM punk debut (neither happening)
> Epic Tier - Kenny swerve turns and joins FTR / Cody forms the 4HM at the end of show / Elite turn on Hangman
> Rare tier - MJF wins the champ / Miroslav makes debut / Kenny attacks Mox at end
> Common tier - Archer or Pac wins Casino Battle
> 
> These are the ‘buzz-worthy’ make em over A mil things that can happen


I think Omega heel turn with Bucks and PAC return in all honesty over the course of the next 5 days.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> I think Omega heel turn with Bucks and PAC return in all honesty over the course of the next 5 days.


Is pac even allowed in? He won’t be able to go back or he’ll have to self isolate. That’s if the government doesn’t change their tune.

I think the Kingston storyline may be how Pac comes back. The entanglement with lucha bros


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> Is pac even allowed in? He won’t be able to go back or he’ll have to self isolate. That’s if the government doesn’t change their tune.
> 
> I think the Kingston storyline may be how Pac comes back. The entanglement with lucha bros


Is it any different to Khan being back?

He was in the UK this past week too...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> Is it any different to Khan being back?
> 
> He was in the UK this past week too...


Oh yes; I completely forgot. How the hell. I guess stupidly rich people have their own rules lol


----------



## rbl85

So i thought the reason they didn't do 1M was because the show was so bad that they lost viewers throughout the show ?

We have a team of specialists on this forum XD


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> You're too predictable....of course you'd be THAT guy......
> 
> Please tell us how you would have booked this better LMFAO(LIKE ANYONE CARES)
> 
> 
> Funny.....where's all the whiners crying yesterday how this show would be lucky to get 600k???


I dunno bro, last time I fantasy booked I think I had like 6-8 pages of comments (Majority positive).

I think it's not great. NXT fans clearly not interested in AEW all that much and vice versa.



optikk sucks said:


> Why are anti AEW marks like @fabi1982 so insistent on bringing up WWE


Ironic because the pro AEW fans love bringing up WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Oh yes; I completely forgot. How the hell. I guess stupidly rich people have their own rules lol


I’m betting he might’ve put Pac on his plane back


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> So i thought the reason they didn't do 1M was because the show was so bad that they lost viewers throughout the show ?
> 
> We have a team of specialists on this forum XD


😂 😂 specialists in being wrong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m betting he might’ve put Pac on his plane back


ok time to be one of those stalker weirdos and stalk Pac's wife on socials, seeing if they've made a move to America


----------



## Prosper

imthegame19 said:


> It's interesting on how the show did so much better during the 2nd hour. I wonder what was on a competition during the first hour? Or did people not realize it was on until 8?
> 
> The fact that Mox/Mark Sterling had near million viewers watching. Shows big difference Dynamite vs NXT head to head. There's no doubt that match would have lost a ton of viewers if NXT had decent main event. But instead people will tune into see a star beat up a fake lawyer in comedy main event. Especially since they are smart enough to know the match will have MJF/Mox showdown at the end.
> 
> Jericho/Cassidy, Sammy/Hardy and Battle Royal build did well too.
> 
> 
> Q1: 883k / 445k (Best Friends/PnP)
> 
> Q2: 832k / 430k (start of 8 Man)
> 
> Q3: 860k / 434k (finish of 8 Man; Omega interview)
> 
> Q4: 899k / 445k (end of Omega/FTR/Page; Jericho/Janela)
> 
> Q5: 1.008M / 508k (Jericho/OC brawl; Hardy/Sammy video; Taz/Jake/Eddie promo)
> 
> Q6: 972k / 482k (rest of the brawl; Brodie video; Rosa/Deeb)
> 
> Q7: 974k / 501k (finish Rosa/Deeb; Mox promo; Swole/Britt)
> 
> Q8: 999k / 505k (Mox/Sterling and MJF beatdown)


That’s pretty dope, I was pretty sure the main event would have lost a bunch of people but I guess people knew that MJF would show up of course. Everything did well except for the 8 man. They’ll definitely do over a million next week.


----------



## Not Lying

Rosa/Deeb held the ratings up just with straight-up great wrestling, happy for the 2 ladies. Moxley continues to prove why he's a big draw and the title should stay on him. And say whatever you want, Jericho putting OC over paid off well looking at those ratings.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

So Orange Cassidy has been involved in the two highest 18-49 segments of Wednesdays Pandemic Era. 

And people will still claim he's not a star.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I've seen an idea being thrown around that actually makes some sense in regards to Brock in AEW.

Brock can sign a short, 6 appearance deal to go to AEW, work one or two match, contract would be up by the end of the year and Vince will flinch and potentially offer him EVEN MORE money than initially. 

The only issue with that is how would AEW book him, I highly doubt he would come in and lose a match and leave. If it's two matches I think he can win one and lose the 2nd, but he's going to be selective with who he loses to. 

The fact he lost clean to Rollins, and gave so much offense to Bryan, AJ etc. makes me think he'd lose to some of the top guys, but that's an element I'm unsure of.


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I've seen an idea being thrown around that actually makes some sense in regards to Brock in AEW.
> 
> Brock can sign a short, 6 appearance deal to go to AEW, work one or two match, contract would be up by the end of the year and Vince will flinch and potentially offer him EVEN MORE money than initially.
> 
> The only issue with that is how would AEW book him, I highly doubt he would come in and lose a match and leave. If it's two matches I think he can win one and lose the 2nd, but he's going to be selective with who he loses to.
> 
> The fact he lost clean to Rollins, and gave so much offense to Bryan, AJ etc. makes me think he'd lose to some of the top guys, but that's an element I'm unsure of.


I would be fine with a 6-8 apperance deal. 6 Dynamite appearances and 2 matches. No more than that though. Just bring him in for a couple dream matches and call it a day. I would do Kenny Omega vs Lesnar in which Lesnar loses and maybe Lesnar vs Cody in which he wins. I don't want a full blown deal though where he comes in squashing everyone on the roster.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> I would be fine with a 6-8 apperance deal. 6 Dynamite appearances and 2 matches. No more than that though. Just bring him in for a couple dream matches and call it a day. I would do Kenny Omega vs Lesnar in which Lesnar loses and maybe Lesnar vs Cody in which he wins.


It's probably unlikely, but fun to think about. I mean could you imagine the internet and buzz if Brock just shows up at the end of All Out and lays out Moxley or something?


----------



## rexmundi

Orange Cassidy in another million drawing segment. Everybody's gotta be nice to the Million Viewer Draw.


----------



## Dizzie

So yet again the women featuring part of dynamite took a dip in viewership, need to stop pandering to them sjw's on twitter and keep women's wrestling exclusive to dark until they can create a competent women's division


----------



## Prosper

Dizzie said:


> So yet again the women featuring part of dynamite took a dip in viewership, need to stop pandering to them sjw's on twitter and keep women's wrestling exclusive to dark until they can create a competent women's division


Rosa and Deeb actually did well in maintaining viewers, it was a good match. It was the unnecessary brawl that had a million people that lost viewership.


----------



## bdon

If Reggie Miller was just blowing smoke, wouldn’t it make more sense to say more recognizable names like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, or Chris Jericho? If TNT wanted him to advertise a youthful character, then wouldn’t they have requested Orange Cassidy, who is loved by children? Or an Omega and Page who are loved by the ladies?

No. He mentioned two far lesser known characters who are absolutely a smash hit with children.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> If Reggie Miller was just blowing smoke, wouldn’t it make more sense to say more recognizable names like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, or Chris Jericho? If TNT wanted him to advertise a youthful character, then wouldn’t they have requested Orange Cassidy, who is loved by children? Or an Omega and Page who are loved by the ladies?
> 
> No. He mentioned two far lesser known characters who are absolutely a smash hit with children.


Raise a good point there to be fair.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Raise a good point there to be fair.


Some people will go out of their way to deny any positivity, because they feel the need to “push back” against the overly positive posters.


----------



## Not Lying

Dizzie said:


> So yet again the women featuring part of dynamite took a dip in viewership, need to stop pandering to them sjw's on twitter and keep women's wrestling exclusive to dark until they can create a competent women's division


lmao stop making shit up. 
Are you for real?

By all metrics this was a success Q6/Q7 are known for losing a bit % and yet the match increase the quarters by +2k. Instead of losing 15% they gained 2% an that’s a big credit to Rosa and Deeb.


----------



## Garty

Dizzie said:


> So yet again the women featuring part of dynamite took a dip in viewership, need to stop pandering to them sjw's on twitter and keep women's wrestling exclusive to dark until they can create a competent women's division


Did you even watch the match?! Probably not, considering what you've said about it. 

Both ladies hit a grand-slam. The match was really good. I said in another thread, that this one match was 100% better than 95 out of 100 matches that came before it. And they really only "lost" approximately 25,000 either way?! Now, if it had dropped by 150,000 - 200,000 viewers (as it has, more than once), then you'd be able to blow your horn as loud as you wanted to, but on Wednesday night this past week, there'd be no blowing of anything.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> If Reggie Miller was just blowing smoke, wouldn’t it make more sense to say more recognizable names like Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, or Chris Jericho? If TNT wanted him to advertise a youthful character, then wouldn’t they have requested Orange Cassidy, who is loved by children? Or an Omega and Page who are loved by the ladies?
> 
> No. He mentioned two far lesser known characters who are absolutely a smash hit with children.


He pronounced luchasaurus correct so if it was scripted he did well


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> He pronounced luchasaurus correct so if it was scripted he did well


"getting paid for promo" is the excuse anti-AEW fans give themselves, because they are surprised people enjoy the product.

but AEW drew close to 1 million people last night and i'm sure nobody was forced to watch it at gunpoint


----------



## The Wood

Pretty underwhelming numbers for both NXT and AEW without the other there. They get about their 600k and the 200k floaters with some extras that are probably unlikely to follow the products around not invest any emotion into it.

I’be said this before, but AEW doing “well” outside their usual slot is probably not good for them long-term. TNT might get the idea they can move it and it will be fine. And WWE will then counter-program that in a big way. Imagine if AEW is doing 600k on a Thursday and there’s a WWE show doing 1 million, plus NXT has gone up to 800k.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW should break a million next week if All Out has some solid angles.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Pretty underwhelming numbers for both NXT and AEW without the other there. They get about their 600k and the 200k floaters with some extras that are probably unlikely to follow the products around not invest any emotion into it.
> 
> I’be said this before, but AEW doing “well” outside their usual slot is probably not good for them long-term. TNT might get the idea they can move it and it will be fine. And WWE will then counter-program that in a big way. Imagine if AEW is doing 600k on a Thursday and there’s a WWE show doing 1 million, plus NXT has gone up to 800k.


NXT is rumored to be moving to Tuesday’s, because USA saw them get over 800k viewers FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 7 MONTHS.

_pause_

Imagine if AEW counters that with Moxley going to Dark as the oft-discussed “second show” with a lot of the bigger guys such Archer, Cage, Luchasaurus, etc battling with the FTW title acting as a sort of super heavyweight title? Poor little NXT goes back to celebrating the nights they can get 700k viewers.

And I say that as someone who absolutely agrees and fears TNT execs getting too cute. We have discussed this previously.

But to pretend that NXT isn’t already switching dates and times and running the risk of losing viewers is disingenuous, bro.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> NXT is rumored to be moving to Tuesday’s, because USA saw them get over 800k viewers FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 7 MONTHS.
> 
> _pause_
> 
> Imagine if AEW counters that with Moxley going to Dark as the oft-discussed “second show” with a lot of the bigger guys such Archer, Cage, Luchasaurus, etc battling with the FTW title acting as a sort of super heavyweight title? Poor little NXT goes back to celebrating the nights they can get 700k viewers.
> 
> And I say that as someone who absolutely agrees and fears TNT execs getting too cute. We have discussed this previously.
> 
> But to pretend that NXT isn’t already switching dates and times and running the risk of losing viewers is disingenuous, bro.


Or Tony moves the actual second show debuting before the end of the year to Tuesday nights to counter-program NXT. Tables will have turned.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Pretty underwhelming numbers for both NXT and AEW without the other there. They get about their 600k and the 200k floaters with some extras that are probably unlikely to follow the products around not invest any emotion into it.
> 
> I’be said this before, but AEW doing “well” outside their usual slot is probably not good for them long-term. TNT might get the idea they can move it and it will be fine. And WWE will then counter-program that in a big way. Imagine if AEW is doing 600k on a Thursday and there’s a WWE show doing 1 million, plus NXT has gone up to 800k.


Everything you say is happening; just replace words aew with nxt & TNT with USA. 
Better to keep up with news before posting


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Or Tony moves the actual second show debuting before the end of the year to Tuesday nights to counter-program NXT. Tables will have turned.


Well dark is a Tuesday show so wwe picking fight there....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Yeah Dark is already on Tuesdays. There's no counter booking or programming here. It is already on Tuesday. TNT would just be happy enough for Dark to be given a 2 hour slot instead of 1 hour. No counter booking here. For all we know, this could already be on the books. It would just be a coincidence.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> I dunno bro, last time I fantasy booked I think I had like 6-8 pages of comments (Majority positive).
> 
> I think it's not great. NXT fans clearly not interested in AEW all that much and vice versa.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic because the pro AEW fans love bringing up WWE.


Yeah I remember quite a few votes that your version wasn't better too.

It just comes off thirsty when a lower level promoter insists on giving his opinion on how things should be booked.I mean you do this pretty regularly to the point I felt the need to say I don't give a shit about how you'd book something.


That's correct anything WWE related does absolutely nothing for me,not one of their 3 brands matter at all to me.Im sure there are a lot of people who feel the opposite too.In mma there isn't a huge crossover audience either between the 2 most popular companys.


----------



## El Hammerstone

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah I remember quite a few votes that your version wasn't better lol.
> 
> It just comes off thirsty when a lower level promoter insists on giving his opinion on how things should be booked.I mean you do this pretty regularly to the point I felt the need to say I don't give a shit about how you'd book something.


I also recall plenty of comments in the vain of "didn't read it, and voted no."


----------



## $Dolladrew$

El Hammerstone said:


> I also recall plenty of comments in the vain of "didn't read it, and voted no."


Read it and no thanks


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah I remember quite a few votes that your version wasn't better too.
> 
> It just comes off thirsty when a lower level promoter insists on giving his opinion on how things should be booked.I mean you do this pretty regularly to the point I felt the need to say I don't give a shit about how you'd book something.
> 
> 
> That's correct anything WWE related does absolutely nothing for me,not one of their 3 brands matter at all to me.Im sure there are a lot of people who feel the opposite too.In mma there isn't a huge crossover audience either between the 2 most popular companys.


So, here is the thread:









Chip Rebooks Dynamite 15.07.2020 Starring: Chipper.


Hello Friends! For many months I have wrote a review on the atrocities that AEW bestows upon us every Wednesday night (Or Thursday morning if you're Australian like me). Many times people have barked back "Well can YOU do better?!" to which I answer "Yes, I can". Today's thread is proving that...




www.wrestlingforum.com





The final vote was 58.1% saying I could do better on that particular Dynamite and 41.9% saying I couldn't. Some AEW loyalists even voted that I wrote better such as Monty Cora, NXT Only and Prosperwithdeen which is a pretty big compliment given how much they love the product.

As Hammerstone points out in his post we had maybe 2-3 guys say they didn't bother reading and voted no anyway. Throw in the fact Pippen94 and ECFuckingW (Who both openly hate me) voted and you could probably easily remove 5-6 people for biased voting but really I'm happy with winning the vote by a pretty large margin anyway.

Thirsty in what way? Obviously as a booker myself I'm passionate about the art form of booking (And whilst AEW doesn't make it look like an art form, believe me it is) and I'll always quickly write something up if the situation arises. I don't know what you guys would want to call me but wouldn't you guys like the opinion of someone in the business? I mean, if I loved AEW and put it over every single day someone such as yourself would use me as an example of AEW being awesome.

In regards to being a lower level promoter you're correct in that I am but two things need to be taken into account. First one being that I don't have 100 million dollars and multiple TV deals and the second one being that I have a much smaller market to navigate. Even if I did have 100 million to build wrestling here in Australia AEW would probably remain more successful simply because of just how massive the USA is as opposed to Australia. For reference the state of Texas has a bigger population than my entire country and the population of Florida is only just under. The state I promote in has a population that is close to Arizona's population so it's not really fair even if I did have that budget.

This is getting a bit lengthy but I'd like to point out that anyone with money could've created All Elite Wrestling. That is all Tony has over most independent wrestling promoters and god bless him for that but lets not pretend I'm saying I can do better than Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff or Paul Heyman. I'm saying I can do better than Tony Khan who I've actually got more years in the wrestling industry than and who is a guy that is told regularly by insiders that he doesn't know what he's doing and needs to hire someone that does.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> So, here is the thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chip Rebooks Dynamite 15.07.2020 Starring: Chipper.
> 
> 
> Hello Friends! For many months I have wrote a review on the atrocities that AEW bestows upon us every Wednesday night (Or Thursday morning if you're Australian like me). Many times people have barked back "Well can YOU do better?!" to which I answer "Yes, I can". Today's thread is proving that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The final vote was 58.1% saying I could do better on that particular Dynamite and 41.9% saying I couldn't. Some AEW loyalists even voted that I wrote better such as Monty Cora, NXT Only and Prosperwithdeen which is a pretty big compliment given how much they love the product.
> 
> As Hammerstone points out in his post we had maybe 2-3 guys say they didn't bother reading and voted no anyway. Throw in the fact Pippen94 and ECFuckingW (Who both openly hate me) voted and you could probably easily remove 5-6 people for biased voting but really I'm happy with winning the vote by a pretty large margin anyway.
> 
> Thirsty in what way? Obviously as a booker myself I'm passionate about the art form of booking (And whilst AEW doesn't make it look like an art form, believe me it is) and I'll always quickly write something up if the situation arises. I don't know what you guys would want to call me but wouldn't you guys like the opinion of someone in the business? I mean, if I loved AEW and put it over every single day someone such as yourself would use me as an example of AEW being awesome.
> 
> In regards to being a lower level promoter you're correct in that I am but two things need to be taken into account. First one being that I don't have 100 million dollars and multiple TV deals and the second one being that I have a much smaller market to navigate. Even if I did have 100 million to build wrestling here in Australia AEW would probably remain more successful simply because of just how massive the USA is as opposed to Australia. For reference the state of Texas has a bigger population than my entire country and the population of Florida is only just under. The state I promote in has a population that is close to Arizona's population so it's not really fair even if I did have that budget.
> 
> This is getting a bit lengthy but I'd like to point out that anyone with money could've created All Elite Wrestling. That is all Tony has over most independent wrestling promoters and god bless him for that but lets not pretend I'm saying I can do better than Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff or Paul Heyman. I'm saying I can do better than Tony Khan who I've actually got more years in the wrestling industry than and who is a guy that is told regularly by insiders that he doesn't know what he's doing and needs to hire someone that does.


Your amazing


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> Your amazing


You're*


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Pippen94 said:


> Well dark is a Tuesday show so wwe picking fight there....


But it was on Youtube and not on Television.............


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> So, here is the thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chip Rebooks Dynamite 15.07.2020 Starring: Chipper.
> 
> 
> Hello Friends! For many months I have wrote a review on the atrocities that AEW bestows upon us every Wednesday night (Or Thursday morning if you're Australian like me). Many times people have barked back "Well can YOU do better?!" to which I answer "Yes, I can". Today's thread is proving that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The final vote was 58.1% saying I could do better on that particular Dynamite and 41.9% saying I couldn't. Some AEW loyalists even voted that I wrote better such as Monty Cora, NXT Only and Prosperwithdeen which is a pretty big compliment given how much they love the product.
> 
> As Hammerstone points out in his post we had maybe 2-3 guys say they didn't bother reading and voted no anyway. Throw in the fact Pippen94 and ECFuckingW (Who both openly hate me) voted and you could probably easily remove 5-6 people for biased voting but really I'm happy with winning the vote by a pretty large margin anyway.
> 
> Thirsty in what way? Obviously as a booker myself I'm passionate about the art form of booking (And whilst AEW doesn't make it look like an art form, believe me it is) and I'll always quickly write something up if the situation arises. I don't know what you guys would want to call me but wouldn't you guys like the opinion of someone in the business? I mean, if I loved AEW and put it over every single day someone such as yourself would use me as an example of AEW being awesome.
> 
> In regards to being a lower level promoter you're correct in that I am but two things need to be taken into account. First one being that I don't have 100 million dollars and multiple TV deals and the second one being that I have a much smaller market to navigate. Even if I did have 100 million to build wrestling here in Australia AEW would probably remain more successful simply because of just how massive the USA is as opposed to Australia. For reference the state of Texas has a bigger population than my entire country and the population of Florida is only just under. The state I promote in has a population that is close to Arizona's population so it's not really fair even if I did have that budget.
> 
> This is getting a bit lengthy but I'd like to point out that anyone with money could've created All Elite Wrestling. That is all Tony has over most independent wrestling promoters and god bless him for that but lets not pretend I'm saying I can do better than Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff or Paul Heyman. I'm saying I can do better than Tony Khan who I've actually got more years in the wrestling industry than and who is a guy that is told regularly by insiders that he doesn't know what he's doing and needs to hire someone that does.


Its called being an armchair quarterback,every NFL game there's that guy who played high school football screaming at the screen the "correct" play call insisting "if only I could coach I could do better."

I'm just tired of you going on about how you'd book things better man.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I'm just tired of you going on about how you'd book things better man.


You could put me on ignore. Tbh I don't rate AEW's booking and being a booker myself I'm always going to call other bookers out on their lack of being able to book. I get that you might not like it but others do


----------



## Jokerface17

Jesus Chip, just stop man. Nobody gives a flying fuck if you’re “in the business” or not. Stop shitting on everything and stop acting like you could book better than Khan just because you’re in the business. I’ve seen better fan booking from other users on this site and I’ve even come up with better booking ideas than you do. It’s fine to be excited and fine to want to voice you’re opinion, I don’t think anyone here is telling you that we won’t listen to what you have to say but it gets real old, real quick when you constantly shit on everything and constantly say your half cocked ass backwards idea is better than someone that is running a successful wrestling show/promotion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Jokerface17 said:


> Jesus Chip, just stop man. Nobody gives a flying fuck if you’re “in the business” or not. Stop shitting on everything and stop acting like you could book better than Khan just because you’re in the business. I’ve seen better fan booking from other users on this site and I’ve even come up with better booking ideas than you do. It’s fine to be excited and fine to want to voice you’re opinion, I don’t think anyone here is telling you that we won’t listen to what you have to say but it gets real old, real quick when you constantly shit on everything and constantly say your half cocked ass backwards idea is better than someone that is running a successful wrestling show/promotion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is he running a successful wrestling show/promotion? Most people tend to think it's a niche product that has been a pretty big let down.

No doubt there are some great ideas on here and I wouldn't say I'm the best on here in terms of ideas being thrown around (People much more passionate have great ideas often) I'm just suggesting most people on here could throw better ideas than Tony Khan.

By all means though if you're happy with guys feuding over minivans and a guy with his hands in his pockets beating AEW's top stars keep enjoying it.


----------



## Dizzie

Garty said:


> Did you even watch the match?! Probably not, considering what you've said about it.
> 
> Both ladies hit a grand-slam. The match was really good. I said in another thread, that this one match was 100% better than 95 out of 100 matches that came before it. And they really only "lost" approximately 25,000 either way?! Now, if it had dropped by 150,000 - 200,000 viewers (as it has, more than once), then you'd be able to blow your horn as loud as you wanted to, but on Wednesday night this past week, there'd be no blowing of anything.


I watched the match, yeah it was good though in the context of how they should be presenting rosa as a legit big time threat to shida it should not have been such a competitive match that lasted as long as it did.

It may seem like a knock when I say that all women's stuff should be put exclusively on dark but I am saying it from the point of view that there is a stigma attached to aew's women division that it's not good and maybe their best is to be patient with the division and build it up on dark and create a bit of positive buzz about it within the wrestling community and then start featuring on the main show again, that is kinda what happened with wwe where nobody was taking women's wrestling seriously on the main roster even when they did on the rare occasion put on a decent match but that changed around the time the women's division scene on their developmental brand nxt was starting to consistently good reviews of the matches they were putting on and led to the women's "revolution" on wwe's main roster.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW is likely to draw over 1 million viewers this coming Wednesday, or at least get pretty close. How can you call that a failure?

Company is profitable or at least breaking even less than 1 year into television in unprecedented times with the pandemic.

If you don't realize how impressive what Tony Khan and his team have accomplished, you are a literal moron.

The best argument the anti-aew crowd has is "They had 1.4 Million viewers on Debut Episode", they are too inept to actually look more more descriptive, and informative stats that paint a long term picture.


----------



## Garty

Dizzie said:


> I watched the match, yeah it was good though in the context of how they should be presenting rosa as a legit big time threat to shida it should not have been such a competitive match that lasted as long as it did.
> 
> It may seem like a knock when I say that all women's stuff should be put exclusively on dark but I am saying it from the point of view that there is a stigma attached to aew's women division that it's not good and maybe their best is to be patient with the division and build it up on dark and create a bit of positive buzz about it within the wrestling community and then start featuring on the main show again, that is kinda what happened with wwe where nobody was taking women's wrestling seriously on the main roster even when they did on the rare occasion put on a decent match but that changed around the time the women's division scene on their developmental brand nxt was starting to consistently good reviews of the matches they were putting on and led to the women's "revolution" on wwe's main roster.


Now see, that makes much more sense. When you say things the way you did, there's only one way to comprehend it.

The match between Rosa and Serena, was presented as a showcase for Rosa. She is practically unknown to the masses in North America and by putting her in a squash match, it wouldn't make her anymore popular. You had to see how good she was, if she was a legitimate contender and if she was a worthy of being an opponent to Shida's AEW Women's Title.

Serena is no slouch. Obviously, she's been around for quite a while. She is known to most wrestling fans and she can actually wrestle. While on commentary, they kept talking about Serena's past success' and Rosa's present success', which played out like it should have. A wrestling veteran, taking on an up-and-comer. Simple.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is he running a successful wrestling show/promotion? Most people tend to think it's a niche product that has been a pretty big let down.
> 
> No doubt there are some great ideas on here and I wouldn't say I'm the best on here in terms of ideas being thrown around (People much more passionate have great ideas often) I'm just suggesting most people on here could throw better ideas than Tony Khan.
> 
> By all means though if you're happy with guys feuding over minivans and a guy with his hands in his pockets beating AEW's top stars keep enjoying it.


I won't speak too much on the booking that you have done, as I don't really mind that and enjoyed the read and effort you put in, but the rest I do feel the need to comment on. 

1.) Yes, it has been successful thus far. PPV buy rates are good, networks are happy, and the fanbase is growing. Social media has been great outside of the "speaking out" stuff and bad women's division. Cable is not an indicator of the entire audience. Most people actually like/love AEW. Your idea that "most" people think its a letdown is 100% incorrect. That's just you. There are some that don't like the product don't get me wrong, and that's natural, everyone is not gonna love everything, but "most" is way off. If most didn't like it, they wouldn't have even lasted THIS long. It's growing in Europe, every one of their PPV's gets awesome reviews by all outlets, and they are exceeding most expectations. I can show you proof on the raving reviews of Stadium Stampede for example all across the board if you'd like, but I'm sure you can look it up yourself. 

2.) Most can fantasy book a show better than any booker. Tony, Vince, Bischoff, Russo, anyone. Especially after the fact. But its all subjective. What you think is awesome booking could be terrible to someone else. For example, in your post where you booked your version of the show, I thought most of it was good, but the part where you booked MJF to go over Kenny Omega on free TV would have drawn MAJOR backlash and you would be ridiculed by the community. Same with giving FTR and Lucha Bros almost no time to develop a match that considered a dream match for many.

3.) They are not feuding over a minivan. Santana and Ortiz are pissed that they are being looked at as jokes, so when they lost to Best Friends, they destroyed the van out of anger. Since then, the van hasn't even been brought up once. So no they are not feuding over the van, they are feuding because they want to be taken seriously in the tag division, which commentary says over and over again. Were Eddie Guerrero and JBL feuding over Eddie taking the wheels off his limo or because JBL hurt his mother and took his WWE Title? Were Stone Cold and Booker T feuding because of hatred, beatdowns, Vince/Booker's alliance, and respect or because Booker T wrecked his truck? In both cases, it wasn't about the vehicle entirely. And it's not the case here either. Vehicles are used as plot devices to further the main storyline or angle.

4.) OC is not just a guy with his hands in his pockets. He's a guy that's over and popular who people want to see despite what you and I think. Do I like the OC/Jericho feud? No. Do I understand why they are doing it? Yes. OC/Jericho just did another great rating pulling in over a million on cable. I didn't even think the segment was good but a lot of people did. Why do you think WWE pushed Eugene against Triple H back in 2004? Because people liked Eugene. And yes people will keep enjoying it and AEW will continue to have success.


----------



## Garty

I don't know where this belongs, but I figured this thread would be the most logical.

It's from Mike Johnson, regarding the PWInsider story, on the "edict" that Vince and WWE have given to it's "independently contracted" talent. The way I read this, suggests that WWE was expected to lose money (one way or another) before/during/after, being in direct competition with AEW, right from the beginning. This little nugget of information, proves to me, that AEW was very much on the mind of WWE, no matter what they try to tell/sell you.

_The same source also pointed out that last year, the company gave raises to a huge swath of talents during the time period AEW was forming and preparing to debut on TNT, which would have offset any losses._


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ratings predictions for this week? Feel like they didn't do as good of a job as they could to get people hyped for this week's episode, but they should still flirt with a million viewers.

Over/Under 1 million?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Ratings predictions for this week? Feel like they didn't do as good of a job as they could to get people hyped for this week's episode, but they should still flirt with a million viewers.
> 
> Over/Under 1 million?


under. I agree that they didn’t do enougj to set the internet and pro wrestling circles on fire. If anything they’ve doused their Bunsen burner with water rather than gasoline.


----------



## La Parka

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Ratings predictions for this week? Feel like they didn't do as good of a job as they could to get people hyped for this week's episode, but they should still flirt with a million viewers.
> 
> Over/Under 1 million?


Under

A terrible dynamite last week and a PPV that had just as much embarrassing segments and matches as good matches and segments.

I'd be stunned if they hit a million. Especially since the only advertised matches are Mr. Boring Lee vs Goldust and a Kip Sabian wedding.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yup - under a mil

got the wrong kind of buzz

over 900 though


----------



## Prosper

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Ratings predictions for this week? Feel like they didn't do as good of a job as they could to get people hyped for this week's episode, but they should still flirt with a million viewers.
> 
> Over/Under 1 million?


Under a mil, the Matt Hardy thing is gonna leave a bad taste in people's mouths for sure and will hurt them this week. They also didn't pull the trigger on big moments like MJF winning or Omega turning, both of which is fine, but that kind of stuff pops a rating. We'll see though.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

prosperwithdeen said:


> Under a mil, the Matt Hardy thing is gonna leave a bad taste in people's mouths for sure and will hurt them this week. They also didn't pull the trigger on big moments like MJF winning or Omega turning, both of which is fine, but that kind of stuff pops a rating. We'll see though.



I don't think the Matt Hardy thing is going to drive away viewers. I'm as outraged as they come over the atrocious handling of that situation, but I doubt hardly anyone will stop watching over it.

I think they should book Omega&Hangman Vs. Young Bucks in a rematch to get people excited, Young Bucks need to get their win back and we finally need this turn, it's long overdue at this point.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Under a mil, the Matt Hardy thing is gonna leave a bad taste in people's mouths for sure and will hurt them this week. They also didn't pull the trigger on big moments like MJF winning or Omega turning, both of which is fine, but that kind of stuff pops a rating. We'll see though.


I think it's going to be the opposite.

The previous shows after the PPV didn't have a lot announced and they still saw a big gain in viewers.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I don't think it's the worst idea in the world to let the PPV be its self-contained event and then do the giant angles on TV, but honestly, I've been waiting for these big TV angles for a while, and outside of the Brodie thing, we haven't really gotten them.


----------



## rbl85

Remember last week 

"oh the show was so bad they must have lost a lot of viewers during the show" and a lot of dumb things like that.

Strangely it did the opposite....is it possible that this forum have no representation at all about what AEW overall fanbase like ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I firmly expect 1 million. I hope Khan wasn't bullshitting about surprises over the next few weeks, this week would be the ideal spot to do it, probably their largest audience since week 2 last October.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> Remember last week
> 
> "oh the show was so bad they must have lost a lot of viewers during the show" and a lot of dumb things like that.
> 
> Strangely it did the opposite....is it possible that this forum have no representation at all about what AEW overall fanbase like ?


I've been saying that for the longest time, people get vocal when they _*DON'T *_like something, when they like something, they just shut up and enjoy it at a higher proportional level.

The rating this past week should've been an eye opener, a big chunk of this board HATES Orange Cassidy, and absolutely HATED the battle royal segment, and yet that quarter featuring all that stuff did north of a million. Not to mention also featuring everyone's two other favorite wrestlers, Joey Janela and Sonny Kiss.

I fully expect Jericho to at some point work a TV program with someone like Sonny Kiss(they already planted the seeds for it), and this forum will have an emotional meltdown while the TV ratings won't reflect it.


----------



## Not Lying

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I fully expect Jericho to at some point work a TV program with someone like Sonny Kiss(they already planted the seeds for it), and this forum will have an emotional meltdown while the TV ratings won't reflect it.


Brian Last called that last month lol


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW All Out 2020 failed to crack top 20 Google Trends for yesterday. Apparently, this was the first of their shows to do so.


Not really surprising. It was a very boring show. A long episode of Dynamite + Matt Hardy almost dying.


----------



## La Parka

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I fully expect Jericho to at some point work a TV program with someone like Sonny Kiss(they already planted the seeds for it), and this forum will have an emotional meltdown while the TV ratings won't reflect it.


I'd actually welcome it.

I personally cannot view Jericho as a serious wrestler so he might as well just be involved in comedy skits and comedy feuds for the rest of his time in AEW. 

Two birds with one stone. I don't have to watch a serious wrestler feud with Sonny Kiss and I don't have to pretend that Jericho isn't a complete joke if he feuded with a main event attraction. Put all the comedy wrestlers together and it makes for a better experience all around.

The problem I had with OC / Jericho and the stadium stampede was that I was going into them thinking I was seeing a legendary wrestler not a comedy act. These past few months cleared up that misconception quickly.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW All Out 2020 failed to crack top 20 Google Trends for yesterday. Apparently, this was the first of their shows to do so.
> 
> 
> Not really surprising. It was a very boring show. A long episode of Dynamite + Matt Hardy almost dying.


tbh not many PPVs do. Summerslam didn't trend at all - not Sunday or Monday. Nice to see All Out rending today, which means a lot of people would've checked out the results the next day. cool


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

La Parka said:


> The problem I had with OC / Jericho and the stadium stampede was that I was going into them thinking I was seeing a legendary wrestler not a comedy act. These past few months cleared up that misconception quickly.


I mean, Stadium Stampede was the highest buyrate in AEW history, and almost unanimously well received online(even tho their is a discrepancy to what people online say, and actual reception, but the data backs up people enjoyed it).

Also remember that since Jericho/OC started, AEW has been doing it's highest numbers since pre-pandemic, now obviously, a good portion of that is contributed to Moxley, but credit to OC and Jericho for consistently doing high 18-49 numbers, and in fact having the two highest 18-49 numbers in the pandemic era on Wednesday nights.


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> tbh not many PPVs do. Summerslam didn't trend at all - not Sunday or Monday. Nice to see All Out rending today, which means a lot of people would've checked out the results the next day. cool


That's not true at all...Scroll down, Payback was #10










,


----------



## Pippen94

Last week was simply to promote ppv. They could've done over a million with stacked show but wouldn't have helped ppv numbers. 

There is fallout from ppv good & quite some bad.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> That's not true at all...Scroll down, Payback was #10
> View attachment 90838
> 
> 
> 
> ,


Cool stats. All Out trended top 5 on Twitter all night in the U.S. and the U.K. though. They were trending during the pre-show buy in as well. Now trending Top 10 on Google today.


----------



## Cult03

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cool stats. All Out trended top 5 on Twitter all night in the U.S. and the U.K. though. They were trending during the pre-show buy in as well. Now trending Top 10 on Google today.


Trending doesn't count when half of Twitter was shitting on the product. Bad press isn't great in 2020


----------



## Pippen94

Seems like 100k+ google searches for aew all out on Sunday


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> That's not true at all...Scroll down, Payback was #10
> View attachment 90838
> 
> 
> 
> ,


i'm pretty sure i said summer slam


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> i'm pretty sure i said summer slam


Scroll down. 

It trended on the day of Summerslam as well.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> Scroll down.
> 
> It trended on the day of Summerslam as well.


lol no it didn't.


http://imgur.com/a/FWaFNUh


even with a reigns return.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Google trends for this show are in the literal toilet, like it's so bad.

Trends is generally a good indicator for the PPV buys of a show, and yeah, this one did not do good, it's about half day of compared to Double or Nothing.

We'll see how it does overall, but not a good outing by the looks of it.


----------



## rbl85

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Google trends for this show are in the literal toilet, like it's so bad.
> 
> *Trends is generally a good indicator for the PPV buys of a show,* and yeah, this one did not do good, it's about half day of compared to Double or Nothing.
> 
> We'll see how it does overall, but not a good outing by the looks of it.


Not really

For exemple DON 2 did half fo what the first DON did.


----------



## Pippen94

Yesterday all out was sitting in #6 with 100k+ - weird


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Not really
> 
> For exemple DON 2 did half fo what the first DON did.


So it was literally the opposite of double or nothing? Sorry could not resist.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> So it was literally the opposite of double or nothing? Sorry could not resist.


good one


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I mean, Stadium Stampede was the highest buyrate in AEW history, and almost unanimously well received online(even tho their is a discrepancy to what people online say, and actual reception, but the data backs up people enjoyed it).
> 
> Also remember that since Jericho/OC started, AEW has been doing it's highest numbers since pre-pandemic, now obviously, a good portion of that is contributed to Moxley, but credit to OC and Jericho for consistently doing high 18-49 numbers, and in fact having the two highest 18-49 numbers in the pandemic era on Wednesday nights.


How many times do I have to repeat it? Jericho-OC have doing horrible numbers since freaking June. I have followed every damn rating Quarters. The times AEW lost to NXT was when Jericho vs OC and his Best Friends were in the main program. In June at one point AEW barely beat NXT but the Jericho-OC segment was the only losing segment of AEW. That is why this feud have been mind-boggling. When something doesn't work, you stop doing it. Imagine during the Monday Night Wars WCW having Hogan facing Disco Inferno over and over and they don't care that people are not watching it cause WCW are doing good numbers in the rest of the card.


----------



## Pippen94

Wolf Mark said:


> How many times do I have to repeat it? Jericho-OC have doing horrible numbers since freaking June. I have followed every damn rating Quarters. The times AEW lost to NXT was when Jericho vs OC and his Best Friends were in the main program. In June at one point AEW barely beat NXT but the Jericho-OC segment was the only losing segment of AEW. That is why this feud have been mind-boggling. When something doesn't work, you stop doing it. Imagine during the Monday Night Wars WCW having Hogan facing Disco Inferno over and over and they don't care that people are not watching it cause WCW are doing good numbers in the rest of the card.


Aew hasn't lost in ratings since December 2019


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Aew hasn't lost in ratings since December 2019


They lost five times this year...


----------



## Pippen94

Lheurch said:


> They lost five times this year...


No wrestling show has ranked ahead of aew on Wednesday this year


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> No wrestling show has ranked ahead of aew on Wednesday this year


They lost in ratings five times this year. That is just a fact.


----------



## rbl85

Lheurch said:


> They lost in ratings five times this year. That is just a fact.


He's talking about the demo


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> He's talking about the demo


Then he should say that instead of ratings. "They have never lost in the metric I am choosing to use that makes them look the best."


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> He's talking about the demo


Then he shouldn't have said 'ratings'.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> He's talking about the demo





Lheurch said:


> They lost in ratings five times this year. That is just a fact.


Which showbuzzdaily page shows aew no finishing ahead this year??


----------



## Pippen94

El Hammerstone said:


> Then he shouldn't have said 'ratings'.


That's how ratings measured!!!!


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Which showbuzzdaily page shows aew no finishing ahead this year??


In total viewership they have lost five times, in 18-49 demo, they have not. If they were winning in total viewers, but not in demo, we all know what number would be used here.


----------



## Pippen94

Lheurch said:


> In total viewership they have lost five times, in 18-49 demo, they have not. If they were winning in total viewers, but not in demo, we all know what number would be used here.


Shows not ranked by total viewers. Nobody at USA or wwe consider that a win


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> Then he shouldn't have said 'ratings'.


the demo is the ratings

’demographic ratings’

only thing that is marked ‘ratings’ is the demo number


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Shows not ranked by total viewers. Nobody at USA or wwe consider that a win


I just ask people to use the right terms. It is misleading. Of course WWE considers it a win. Just like some people here consider AEW beating RAW in females 12-34 or whatever it was once is a massive win.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I just ask people to use the right terms. It is misleading. Of course WWE considers it a win. Just like some people here consider *AEW beating RAW in females 12-34 or whatever it was once is a massive win*.


that was more anecdotal and just having fun


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that was more anecdotal and just having fun


It is all marketing. Just like WWE celebrates having more views than the NFL/NBA/MLB or whatever on whichever social media platform they manage to. So of course WWE is going to consider overall viewers a win. They want to control the narrative, just like AEW does too.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that was more anecdotal and just having fun





Lheurch said:


> I just ask people to use the right terms. It is misleading. Of course WWE considers it a win. Just like some people here consider AEW beating RAW in females 12-34 or whatever it was once is a massive win.


A month or so ago aew beat raw & smackdown in p18 - 34


----------



## Pippen94

Lheurch said:


> It is all marketing. Just like WWE celebrates having more views than the NFL/NBA/MLB or whatever on whichever social media platform they manage to. So of course WWE is going to consider overall viewers a win. They want to control the narrative, just like AEW does too.


No - can total more viewers overall but if you finish outside of top 50 you're in cancelation zone. Ratings based on demos.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> It is all marketing. Just like WWE celebrates having more views than the NFL/NBA/MLB or whatever on whichever social media platform they manage to. So of course WWE is going to consider overall viewers a win. They want to control the narrative, just like AEW does too.


they don’t consider it a win

they rarely win overall viewers on any of their shows - its best for them to consider demo as a win - which they do

that way RAW and Smackdown stays in the top 5


----------



## NathanMayberry

optikk sucks said:


> lol no it didn't.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/FWaFNUh
> 
> 
> even with a reigns return.












Why are you lying?


----------



## NathanMayberry

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Google trends for this show are in the literal toilet, like it's so bad.
> 
> Trends is generally a good indicator for the PPV buys of a show, and yeah, this one did not do good, it's about half day of compared to Double or Nothing.
> 
> We'll see how it does overall, but not a good outing by the looks of it.


It doesn't matter what it does.. Expect Meltzer to say ~100,000 buys (offering no proof of course)


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NathanMayberry said:


> View attachment 90859
> 
> 
> Why are you lying?


Why would I lie? That’s how it comes on my screen lol.


----------



## Pippen94

optikk sucks said:


> Why would I lie? That’s how it comes on my screen lol.


All out was tracking 100k+ yesterday but disappeared when looking back on Sunday today?!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> All out was tracking 100k+ yesterday but disappeared when looking back on Sunday today?!


I saw All out tracking yesterday as well as Sunday. People checked out the PPV. It’s a good sign


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Lheurch said:


> Then he should say that instead of ratings. "They have never lost in the metric I am choosing to use that makes them look the best."


You are using the incorrect term, rating is household rating, the household rating these shows are judged by is the 18-49 rating.


----------



## imthegame19

Lheurch said:


> Then he should say that instead of ratings. "They have never lost in the metric that the media and experts ranks the shows by.


Fixed. Unless you can find me show rankings for the night that's based off viewership? It's not picking and choosing by fans. It's how shows are reported and ranked. If anything basing wins and loses off viewership is something wrestling fans are picking and choosing to do and it's opposite of your saying.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wolf Mark said:


> How many times do I have to repeat it? Jericho-OC have doing horrible numbers since freaking June. I have followed every damn rating Quarters. The times AEW lost to NXT was when Jericho vs OC and his Best Friends were in the main program. In June at one point AEW barely beat NXT but the Jericho-OC segment was the only losing segment of AEW. That is why this feud have been mind-boggling. When something doesn't work, you stop doing it.


When something doesn't work, you stop doing it? What a horrendous mentality to have, it didn't work for ONE WEEK, a SINGLE WEEK. You don't put the brakes on someone based on ONE WEEK of ratings, that's WWE shit of start-stopping someone.

They beat literally NXT's biggest match of all time in 18-49 for Jericho/OC I, which at that point, OC was still being established at that level. Want more numbers? Jericho/OC 2 Episode outdrew Moxley/Cage FFTF episode and they had WAY more competition for the former. 

The debate and Jericho/OC brawl from go home episode are the two highest rated 18-49 quarter hours of the pandemic era.


----------



## rbl85

OC/Jericho did 1M last week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> OC/Jericho did 1M last week.


Only Q to do so

its true, its damn true


----------



## K4L318

someone tell clown dat Jericho and pockets did a milli.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

K4L318 said:


> someone tell clown dat Jericho and pockets did a milli.


That was because of Sonny Kiss and Joey Janela and the Battle Royal Segment that everyone raved about. Oh also, I noticed the commercials were a lot more intriguing during that quarter.


----------



## K4L318

RelivingTheShadow said:


> That was because of Sonny Kiss and Joey Janela and the Battle Royal Segment that everyone raved about. Oh also, I noticed the commercials were a lot more intriguing during that quarter.


bruh da week before dem kats did a milli. Pockets is a draw. 

The Battle Royal was anyone's guess. My guess is Lance or Brian and Ricky.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Apparently the replay of Dynamite on Friday did not make it into the top 150.





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Friday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 9.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





Meaning that despite having a 0.85 lead in and over 2 million viewers it did not get more than 0.02 in the DEMO.

According to Meltzer there was significance to this.. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302036158512160768


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Apparently the replay of Dynamite on Friday did not make it into the top 150.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Friday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 9.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning that despite having a 0.85 lead in and over 2 million viewers it did not get more than 0.02 in the DEMO.
> 
> According to Meltzer there was significance to this..
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302036158512160768


Reaching


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> When something doesn't work, you stop doing it? What a horrendous mentality to have, it didn't work for ONE WEEK, a SINGLE WEEK. You don't put the brakes on someone based on ONE WEEK of ratings, that's WWE shit of start-stopping someone.
> 
> They beat literally NXT's biggest match of all time in 18-49 for Jericho/OC I, which at that point, OC was still being established at that level. Want more numbers? Jericho/OC 2 Episode outdrew Moxley/Cage FFTF episode and they had WAY more competition for the former.
> 
> The debate and Jericho/OC brawl from go home episode are the two highest rated 18-49 quarter hours of the pandemic era.


I watched all the Quarters, they were destroyed everytime, not just one time. I'm thinking overall viewers, not Demo. Demo is for losers. I want AEW to succeed and I cheered when they got 910 cause it was a real hard numbers for people across all demos. Don't cheer for small victories. TK look like a petulant child when he talks about Demos. Then there was one week that they maintained the quarter but not by a lot and they had zero competition. I think it was two weeks ago where I posted the numbers, and Jericho-OC were fourth in the AEW viewers.Then last week they finallly did a good number, I'll give them that. But I think it was a short brawl and most of the attraction was the Jake-Taz promo which was the most exciting moment of the night.


----------



## rbl85

Wolf Mark said:


> I watched all the Quarters, they were destroyed everytime, not just one time. I'm thinking overall viewers, not Demo. Demo is for losers. I want AEW to succeed and I cheered when they got 910 cause it was a real hard numbers for people across all demos. Don't cheer for small victories. TK look like a petulant child when he talks about Demos. Then there was one week that they maintained the quarter but not by a lot and they had zero competition. I think it was two weeks ago where I posted the numbers, and Jericho-OC were fourth in the AEW viewers.Then last week they finallly did a good number, I'll give them that. But I think it was a short brawl and most of the attraction was the Jake-Taz promo which was the most exciting moment of the night.


I guess TNT, USA network, etc are all losers....


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wolf Mark said:


> I watched all the Quarters, they were destroyed everytime, not just one time. I'm thinking overall viewers, not Demo. Demo is for losers. I want AEW to succeed and I cheered when they got 910 cause it was a real hard numbers for people across all demos. Don't cheer for small victories. TK look like a petulant child when he talks about Demos. Then there was one week that they maintained the quarter but not by a lot and they had zero competition. I think it was two weeks ago where I posted the numbers, and Jericho-OC were fourth in the AEW viewers.Then last week they finallly did a good number, I'll give them that. But I think it was a short brawl and most of the attraction was the Jake-Taz promo which was the most exciting moment of the night.


Demos are the reason RAW, Smackdown and AEW all have their TV deals.

Stop being incompetent.


----------



## Wolf Mark

rbl85 said:


> I guess TNT, USA network, etc are all losers....


Well yes. When Nitro was doing 5 in ratings(not viewers, actual ratings), TNT didn't have to talk about Demo, they were swimming in money. They were kings of ALL demos. Now they too contend themselves in small victories. And the NBA ratings are not doing to well for them either.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Demos are the reason RAW, Smackdown and AEW all have their TV deals.
> 
> Stop being incompetent.


But ALL TV shows aim at the same demo. Not just wrestling. ALL TV networks want the "young" people of 18-49. The problem arise when the Demo is ALL you focus on. When NBC does a show, they aim at the lucrative 18-49 but they know that if they only got that demo, they would be in trouble. Cause they focus on real big strong ratings, THEY WANT THE MOST PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wolf Mark said:


> But ALL TV shows aim at the same demo. Not just wrestling. ALL TV networks want the "young" people of 18-49. The problem arise when the Demo is ALL you focus on. When NBC does a show, they aim at the lucrative 18-49 but they know that if they only got that demo, they would be in trouble. Cause they focus on real big strong ratings, THEY WANT THE MOST PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.


But getting the demo is exponentially more important than all people, outside the demo you'd want teenagers first, because at least they will age into the demo, and then 50+ which is the biggest contributed to the overall viewership number, which ultimately isn't important.

Overall viewership doesn't matter, it's great people are watching the show, but that isn't primarily what contributes to the ad rates the network gets.

Again, the Wrestling shows ONLY have their lucrative TV deals which is their lifeline to exist because of THE DEMO, NOTHING ELSE.

Also, 18-49 doesn't mean just young people, it's a range of people, and a fucking giant one at that, there are a lot of people to draw in that range bracket.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> But getting the demo is exponentially more important than all people, outside the demo you'd want teenagers first, because at least they will age into the demo, and then 50+ which is the biggest contributed to the overall viewership number, which ultimately isn't important.
> 
> Overall viewership doesn't matter, it's great people are watching the show, but that isn't primarily what contributes to the ad rates the network gets.
> 
> Again, the Wrestling shows ONLY have their lucrative TV deals which is their lifeline to exist because of THE DEMO, NOTHING ELSE.
> 
> Also, 18-49 doesn't mean just young people, it's a range of people, and a fucking giant one at that, there are a lot of people to draw in that range bracket.


What I mean is yes the demo essentially greenlight these projects because their aim is that but it cannot be only that. If you only focus on that and the TNT wrestling deal is already weak and you don't make money with commercials cause nobody pays big dollars to advertise on a wrestling show, what else is there? I mean when say Seinfeld were strong in their Demo, it actually mattered cause they had huge numbers. AEW may do well in the demo but it's very thinny in the spectrum. TK may care about the Demo, executives may say it to him, when that 910 hit instead of 795, I would bet you that it was an altogether different reaction. 

To me, it's all bullshit. Saturday Night's Main Event was doing 10s in the ratings. Those were real numbers. That's a real success. That is telling me that Hogan was a success. Jericho doing somewhat average with 500 viewers in the demo doesn't tell me he is a success. We should compare ourselves with the real successful people, the eras that did big numbers, the 80s and the Attitude Era. This is nothing.


----------



## Cult03

Demos still don't matter to anyone other than the advertisers..


----------



## TKO Wrestling

When Showbuzz ranks by demo, makes notes based on demo movement only, they are ignored.
When The Rock claims #1 for 12 weeks, it was based on demo, and everyone cheers The Great One's greatness.
When AEW discusses demo they are idiots that don't get how TV works.


----------



## EmbassyForever

All Out Countdown - 357K - 0.14


----------



## Aedubya

So what was the ALL OUT buyrate?


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> So what was the ALL OUT buyrate?


Too soon to know it


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wolf Mark said:


> What I mean is yes the demo essentially greenlight these projects because their aim is that but it cannot be only that. If you only focus on that and the TNT wrestling deal is already weak and you don't make money with commercials cause nobody pays big dollars to advertise on a wrestling show, what else is there? I mean when say Seinfeld were strong in their Demo, it actually mattered cause they had huge numbers. AEW may do well in the demo but it's very thinny in the spectrum. TK may care about the Demo, executives may say it to him, when that 910 hit instead of 795, I would bet you that it was an altogether different reaction.
> 
> To me, it's all bullshit. Saturday Night's Main Event was doing 10s in the ratings. Those were real numbers. That's a real success. That is telling me that Hogan was a success. Jericho doing somewhat average with 500 viewers in the demo doesn't tell me he is a success. We should compare ourselves with the real successful people, the eras that did big numbers, the 80s and the Attitude Era. This is nothing.


So you are comparing now to what they were doing in the 90's? Dude, times change, things evolve.

And the 18-49 rating was always important, but it's even more so these days because of the changing climate of the TV landscape with more people not watching TV.

And no one said AEW is going to be the attitude era lmfao, I don't know what you are on about.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

All Out did about 10% less Google trends interest than DoN, so nothing that substantial, they could very well break the record.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RelivingTheShadow said:


> So you are comparing now to what they were doing in the 90's? Dude, times change, things evolve.
> 
> And the 18-49 rating was always important, but it's even more so these days because of the changing climate of the TV landscape with more people not watching TV.
> 
> And no one said AEW is going to be the attitude era lmfao, I don't know what you are on about.


You say things evolve cause AEW just cannot catch up. If they were hitting the 5s in ratings, you think anybody would talk about demos?


----------



## Not Lying

EmbassyForever said:


> View attachment 90888
> 
> 
> All Out Countdown - 357K - 0.14


#23 on a Saturday for a "nothing" show is pretty good i guess


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> #23 on a Saturday for a "nothing" show is pretty good i guess


Think that the people who watched that show were very interested in purchasing the PPV. It’s a fantastic number. Imagine if they persuaded every single one of those viewers to buy the PPV.


----------



## thorn123

That dynamite was worth some good ratings ...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> That dynamite was worth some good ratings ...


It should

but, it was promo heavy - we know promos lose viewers

it was A great dynamite though - unopposed, after a PPV

950+ / 0.36 - which is disappointing - it would’ve been over 1 mil if there was some positive buzz out of All Out

edit> *disappointing to me


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It should
> 
> but, it was promo heavy - we know promos lose viewers
> 
> it was A great dynamite though - unopposed, after a PPV
> 
> 950+ / 0.36 - which is disappointing - it would’ve been over 1 mil if there was some positive buzz out of All Out
> 
> edit> *disappointing to me


I think there's a chance they might crack that 1m due to Matt Hardy, or not, I meant, this is a test to see what bad publicity does lol.


----------



## Erik.

890k in my view.


----------



## Pippen94

I'll go with over a million - someone has to show a bit of confidence
Bugger it - 150k buys for All Out as well is my guess


----------



## TD Stinger

Last week was 928k. This was the follow up to a PPV. I'm admittedly awful at predicting this stuff, but I think they'll reach a million this week. If not they'll come damn close.


----------



## Prosper

I'm gonna shoot high and guess 1.1 million this week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

900k for me and a 0.36 in the demo.


----------



## omaroo

850-900k for me. Dont think they will break the 1 million mark.


----------



## EmbassyForever

895k- 0.35, imo


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.4 / 1 million


----------



## Joe Gill

this week had good segments but dud matches that no one cared about.... when freaking goldust is in your main event ratings are going to suck... I say 800k.... I think they will break 1 million on the anniversary show.


----------



## NathanMayberry

If it doesn't get as million this week, I can't see when it will.


----------



## K4L318

think they get close to a milli. Depends what peeps did in segment 1. If ya tuned in did ya see Jericho and MJF and say ightz I'm keeping it here.


----------



## RapShepard

931k, .31 demo, 4 in the rankings, #1 for wrestling shows that aired this Wednesday


----------



## rbl85

They'll do more than last week.


----------



## Not Lying

I'm going with 970k, 0.36


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Moxley and The Elite were pretty much absent from this show, you'd have to think that hurts them.


----------



## Dark Emperor

1m viewers surely this week. Especially with all the controversy from All Out.

If not, then its laughable that people are talking about this company competing with WWE soon.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I figure they'll squeak out just over a million


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

1.01 million .37 in the demo


----------



## RiverFenix

Facing NBA playoffs again - so I'll predict the same rating as last week. Maybe a little less given last week was a stinker and for whatever reason ALL OUT didn't seem to rate well.

Ha - dumbass me made this prediction after official numbers already reported here.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Kind of a weak demo number, but solid overall especially with little Moxley and Elite presence on the show.


----------



## EmbassyForever

About damn time!
Congrats.


----------



## Erik.

I'm really happy for them. 

Well done.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Well, they finally broke that threshold again; let's see if the Miro debut can bump it up even further next week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

El Hammerstone said:


> Well, they finally broke that threshold again; let's see if the Miro debut can bump it up even further next week.


NXT is back or timeslot shifted, they are dropping hard next week.

This number is an aberration, nothing really to celebrate, cool that they broke 1 million, but wish the demo number was at the .4 range.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Damn they fucking did it! 1M baby! What you say now Chip? You doubted me when I said Reby would turn up on Dynamite. You fucked up. You doubted me when I said this episode would hit 1M. You fucked. So much for being an industry insider. You're just a joke.


----------



## RiverFenix

Broke 1M, Demo hurt by NBA playoffs, but still respectable. 

Get jerked around next week by NBA scheduling though and could be back H2H with NXT so will be a one and done. Something about a special 1 hour midnight show being aired as well - I don't know the point of that. 

I think they'll film the show next Wednesday and air it live or taped on Thursday depending on NBA. And if they air live on Wednesday the 1 Hour Special will air late Thursday Night (12am Friday?) but if they are bumped from Wednesday they'll air the special Wednesday Night after basketball (12am Thursday).


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Kind of a weak demo number, but solid overall especially with little Moxley and Elite presence on the show.


The lack of young women 18-49 is what is letting them down. 0.51 male 18-49 is fantastic.


----------



## Pippen94

1 million finally!!!


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> The lack of young women 18-49 is what is letting them down. 0.51 male 18-49 is fantastic.


They were doing really well with women, but then the schedule shifted and their women demos are the one that took the biggest hit.

Meltzer said historically, when a TV show shifts in time slots it takes about 3-4 weeks until they really settle back to their old numbers and I think that's what we're seeing here.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Just waiting for Chip/Mox/wood to find a way to turn this into a negative.


----------



## Erik.

One hell of a basketball game they were up against too.


----------



## bdon

Not going to celebrate when they’re going to be forced to change times again. Shit is fucking stupid.


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They were doing really well with women, but then the schedule shifted and their women demos are the one that took the biggest hit.
> 
> Meltzer said historically, when a TV show shifts in time slots it takes about 3-4 weeks until they really settle back to their old numbers and I think that's what we're seeing here.


They were until Brandi's Heels thing started!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

How the turn tables.... have turned

jokes aside - yeah, over a mil

but as mentioned, it is anecdotal - 0.37 on the demo is a bit lower than what I thought they should aim for

I was hoping for back to 0.4 to be honest

not far off - but really - they’ve been doing 0.32 to 0.36

so, not like 0.37 is this massive win

all being said - the pure optics (optikk?) of a Million is a nice one


----------



## RapShepard

Good for them, so the 1.4 is still lurking. How do they get them to tune in more often tho


----------



## Claro De Luna

bdon said:


> Not going to celebrate when they’re going to be forced to change times again. Shit is fucking stupid.


The loyal fans will always find their way to Dynamite no matter how many times they move time slots. Hopefully any casuals who tuned in last night liked what they saw and will be returning customers. Was a damn good show last night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A metric shit-ton more 50+ tuned in

wonder if they’ll keep them or if its back to NXT next week


----------



## Pippen94

A PG Attitude said:


> Just waiting for Chip/Mox/wood to find a way to turn this into a negative.


Can't complain about demo cause they say demo doesn't count.
Not 200k swinging viewers cause it appears double that.
Reckon will say ex wwe guys popped ratings...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> Good for them, so the 1.4 is still lurking. How do they get them to tune in more often tho


presenting an unmissable show


----------



## AEWMoxley

RapShepard said:


> Good for them, so the 1.4 is still lurking. How do they get them to tune in more often tho


By building up charismatic characters like MJF, like they've done over the last month. Unfortunately, they don't have many guys like that on the roster, but they need to continue using what they've got.

Moxley vs MJF 2 should be the main event of Full Gear.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One thing to Note

*Dynamite beat RAW in 18-34 vs All 3 hours

Edit> this is a lie, I looked at the wrong column, but - they were close *

that.... is actually not bad

that 0.51 on males as Optikk said is also pretty spectacular

Need more Women though


----------



## Chan Hung

1 million plus? About time. They should have this unopposed and with a solid show!


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Good for them, so the 1.4 is still lurking. How do they get them to tune in more often tho


By consistently doing good shows and not cave into Twitter geeks and vocal minority on here, which they are prone to do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> presenting an unmissable show


Building an unmissable show

no matter how you slice it, Shock debuts do not pop a rating

promoting an unmissable show does


----------



## DammitChrist

AEWMoxley said:


> By building up charismatic characters like MJF, like they've done over the last month. Unfortunately, they don't have many guys like that on the roster, but they need to continue using what they've got.
> 
> Moxley vs MJF 2 should be the main event of Full Gear.


It's most likely going to be Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega II for the AEW World title at Full Gear 

Moxley will probably feud with Omega again soon. You know, that same Omega who is also very charismatic


----------



## Dark Emperor

1m is very good and its the best since week 4 last year in terms of viewership. Good week!


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Mister Sinister

Maybe they will be able to hold viewers by adding Miro to the show. This is a big signing. This guy could be as much as a draw as Mox.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Building an unmissable show
> 
> no matter how you slice it, Shock debuts do not pop a rating
> 
> promoting an unmissable show does


definitely. And I think if AEW put on good shows continuously, word of mouth gets round and more people watch.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Literally a few seconds a part they send out the same tweet lmfao


----------



## TripleG

Good for them. 

The evidence continues to grow that it'd be better for both shows if NXT and AEW ran on different nights.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> View attachment 90920
> 
> 
> Literally a few seconds a part they send out the same tweet lmfao


The beginnings of this feud started when Jericho tried to get MJF to join IC. Last night was another tease. It's coming.


----------



## K4L318

cant shit on this. Good for Tony and dem kats.


----------



## AEWMoxley

DammitChrist said:


> It's most likely going to be Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega II for the AEW World title at Full Gear
> 
> Moxley will probably feud with Omega again soon. You know, that same Omega who is also very charismatic


Omega isn't even ranked. There's not enough time between now and Full Gear for him to reach that top spot. Plus, he's going to be busy putting Page over, anyways.

The MJF feud is clearly not over, given the way that match ended. They need to have their top draws feuding, and that's exactly what Moxley vs MJF would give them.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> presenting an unmissable show


Yeah hopefully they don't fall back into the post PPV 6 week rest where they just chill and do a light build to a TV special. Obviously they can't go balls to the walls 51 weeks a year. But I'm hoping they go all in on Omega vs Page and Moxley vs Archer sooner rather than later. 



AEWMoxley said:


> By building up charismatic characters like MJF, like they've done over the last month. Unfortunately, they don't have many guys like that on the roster, but they need to continue using what they've got.
> 
> Moxley vs MJF 2 should be the main event of Full Gear.


They for a lot of charismatic guys, even if they aren't guys I personally like that much. Like The Elite guys are all pretty damn charismatic, MJF is as well.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TripleG said:


> Good for them.
> 
> The evidence continues to grow that it'd be better for both shows if NXT and AEW ran on different nights.


It's in USA's and WWE's best interest to keep them on the same night. NXT is expendable, it's nothing more than a tool to stifle AEW's growth. It's evident that AEW would approach RAWs numbers in the key demos if they ran unopposed, and USA would look like gigantic GEEKS in the TV industry if TNT could pay AEW $45 million and get the same numbers that RAW gets while USA are paying 250 million.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> The beginnings of this feud started when Jericho tried to get MJF to join IC. Last night was another tease. It's coming.


Yeah, I loved that opening, a great tease for a match to come hopefully sometime next year.

I wanna see Jericho back in World Title contention at some point, but this Tag run with Hager should be good for the time being.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Good for them, so the 1.4 is still lurking. How do they get them to tune in more often tho


If the anniversary show was unopposed, I think they would get close. That should be a stacked show with a big World Title match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol

every week one of these


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304146607030456321


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It's in USA's and WWE's best interest to keep them on the same night. NXT is expendable, it's nothing more than a tool to stifle AEW's growth. It's evident that AEW would approach RAWs numbers in the key demos if they ran unopposed, and USA would look like gigantic GEEKS in the TV industry if TNT could pay AEW $45 million and get the same numbers that RAW gets while USA are paying 250 million.


I dunno man, I'd rather that AEW negotiate upwards instead of WWE negotiating downwards when their contracts are up. Better for AEW, WWE and the industry.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> definitely. And I think if AEW put on good shows continuously, word of mouth gets round and more people watch.


i think they are gonna build the 1-year anniversary show well

we already have a title match set with Mox / Archer


----------



## AEWMoxley

RapShepard said:


> Yeah hopefully they don't fall back into the post PPV 6 week rest where they just chill and do a light build to a TV special. Obviously they can't go balls to the walls 51 weeks a year. But I'm hoping they go all in on Omega vs Page and Moxley vs Archer sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> 
> They for a lot of charismatic guys, even if they aren't guys I personally like that much. Like The Elite guys are all pretty damn charismatic, MJF is as well.


That's a loose interpretation of the term charismatic, and lumping them all together seems pointless. Cody is the most charismatic member of The Elite by a land slide, but each of the single stars in that group main evented a PPV, and yet none of them were able to generate great numbers on the fallout show like MJF could. He, Moxley, and Jericho, are in a league of their own when it comes to charisma and star power.


----------



## Alright_Mate

It’s that time again...

Haters...


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It's in USA's and WWE's best interest to keep them on the same night. NXT is expendable, it's nothing more than a tool to stifle AEW's growth. It's evident that AEW would approach RAWs numbers in the key demos if they ran unopposed, and USA would look like gigantic GEEKS in the TV industry if TNT could pay AEW $45 million and get the same numbers that RAW gets while USA are paying 250 million.


I don't buy that. If aew a viable competitor it gives USA negotiating chip to bring down wwe price


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> I dunno man, I'd rather that AEW negotiate upwards instead of WWE negotiating downwards when their contracts are up. Better for AEW, WWE and the industry.


We as fans all would, but USA and NBCU don't want the perception in the TV industry that they are morons for overpaying WWE, and WWE wants to keep the stranglehold they have on the industry currently.

It sucks, but I understand where they are both coming from, I think there's very little chance for NXT to be moved, but obviously, for the health of the industry and EVERYONE involved to make more money, it's what would be best.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pippen94 said:


> I don't buy that. If aew a viable competitor it gives USA negotiating chip to bring down wwe price


The current TV deal isn't up until 2024, if you want to have that conversation then, fine, but right now, it's foolish for USA to move NXT.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> That's a loose interpretation of the term charismatic, and lumping them all together seems pointless. Cody is the most charismatic member of The Elite by a land slide, but each of the single stars in that group main evented a PPV, and yet none of them were able to generate great numbers on the fallout show like MJF could. He, Moxley, and Jericho, are in a league of their own when it comes to charisma and star power.


Slurp slurp


----------



## K4L318

Cody was holding down the show. Him and Brandi and Allie.


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The current TV deal isn't up until 2024, if you want to have that conversation then, fine, but right now, it's foolish for USA to move NXT.


TNT underpayed. Given way TV is wwe probably still get about same deal next time. 
Having show on Wednesday not register when it can be top 10 night before is foolish


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

A PG Attitude said:


> Just waiting for Chip/Mox/wood to find a way to turn this into a negative.


I got you on this one, it's pretty easy -

"We went from 2.3 Million Viewers on Week 1 of Wednesday wrestling to AEW barley breaking 1 million and people are out here celebrating. This company has no chance and is driving viewers away on a weekly basis, and it is just fact that viewers at home are not enjoying the product. Maybe if Tony Khan could pull his head out of his ass and let a real booker book, they wouldn't be free falling every week"

That good enough?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pippen94 said:


> TNT underpayed. Given way TV is wwe probably still get about same deal next time.
> Having show on Wednesday not register when it can be top 10 night before is foolish


TNT for sure underpaid, but I don't know about WWE getting the same TV deal, if they continue to fall at this rate, I would be surprised tbh, when they negotiated the contracts in 2018, their fall wasn't bad at all, and they had Ronda Rousey which was appealing to FOX(no one will truly understand how important Ronda was to WWE, which is unfortunate). Both of those things are gone now.


----------



## One Shed

Good growth up from last week. Clearly the NXT fans have been willing to check it out. Maybe Miro showing up will cause some/many to stay. Next week will be interesting considering we will not know until either Saturday or Monday what night they will be on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I got you on this one, it's pretty easy -
> 
> "We went from 2.3 Million Viewers on Week 1 of Wednesday wrestling to AEW barley breaking 1 million and people are out here celebrating. This company has no chance and is driving viewers away on a weekly basis, and it is just fact that viewers at home are not enjoying the product. Maybe if Tony Khan could pull his head out of his ass and let a real booker book, they wouldn't be free falling every week"
> 
> That good enough?


look at you fucking nailing that shit 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also.... is now the time to talk about how OC, Sonny Kiss and Janela was in this show

all of them advertised in matches as well

or nah?

this board isn’t ready for that fucking reality check


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Yeah unfortunately I can now totally see WWE not moving NXT to Tuesdays, especially when RAW is continuously setting new records for their lowest viewership and football is only starting.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Also.... is now the time to talk about how OC, Sonny Kiss and Janela was in this show
> 
> all of them advertised in matches as well
> 
> or nah?
> 
> this board isn’t ready for that fucking reality check


That's what was the surprising thing, but it's kind of a regular thing with AEW where shows with really weak cards end up being really good and do well. 

No Omega, Page, Moxley, Cody, YB in big matches and they still did relatively well, that should be celebrated.


----------



## Erik.

709,000 off of Raw is the smallest gap that a North American wrestling companies show has had since WCW in 1999.

Continue to smash it AEW - you're on the right path.


----------



## Claro De Luna

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I got you on this one, it's pretty easy -
> 
> "We went from 2.3 Million Viewers on Week 1 of Wednesday wrestling to AEW barley breaking 1 million and people are out here celebrating. This company has no chance and is driving viewers away on a weekly basis, and it is just fact that viewers at home are not enjoying the product. Maybe if Tony Khan could pull his head out of his ass and let a real booker book, they wouldn't be free falling every week"
> 
> That good enough?


A real booker like Chip?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Yeah, I'ma need the Orange Cassidy hating edgelords to pack it up. He's here to stay.*


----------



## Prosper

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm gonna shoot high and guess 1.1 million this week.


Damn I was close lol, great number for AEW though. Next week's show is stacked and looks like it'll be a banger so I can definitely see it moving up even further. Miro will also draw some people in. Good times!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

so wait. you're telling me AEW did more than HALF of this week's RAW? what the shits


----------



## RiverFenix

Labor Day Holiday was a factor. But Monday Night Football starts next Monday so WWE Raw could be in real trouble.


----------



## Prosper

They're gonna want to put on quality content seeing as 40-50% of the reviews for All Out were negative with the Matt Hardy shit going on, so I can see them really knocking it out of the park going into the Ann. show and into Full Gear. Only 8 weeks away. If they can stay consistent, they will hit 1.4 again by the PPV. Then they'll only be about 350K cable viewers away from catching up to RAW. With Omega, Hangman, and Miro bolstering the singles division, MJF wanting another shot, and Mox vs Archer being built among other things, I doubt they take their foot off the pedal. Seems like it'll be hard to at this point.


----------



## TD Stinger

Guys, we’re all burying the lead here.

Will Hobbs was mentioned in the show last night. Clearly that was the golden ticket.

CALL HIM THE DRAW WILL HOBBS


----------



## rbl85

It's great but let's be real, next week they will probably do less than 900K (always a big drop the second show after a PPV)

But maybe this time it will change since it was i think their best show after a PPV


----------



## A PG Attitude

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I got you on this one, it's pretty easy -
> 
> "We went from 2.3 Million Viewers on Week 1 of Wednesday wrestling to AEW barley breaking 1 million and people are out here celebrating. This company has no chance and is driving viewers away on a weekly basis, and it is just fact that viewers at home are not enjoying the product. Maybe if Tony Khan could pull his head out of his ass and let a real booker book, they wouldn't be free falling every week"
> 
> That good enough?


Perfect 😂


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> It's great but let's be real, next week they will probably do less than 900K (always a big drop the second show after a PPV)
> 
> But maybe this time it will change since it was i think their best show after a PPV


They put on a strong show last night, and promoted an even stronger show for next week. They'll retain viewers. Historically the fall out shows are usually mediocre coming out of PPV's in the past. Problem though is that the night may switch at the last minute if the NBA Playoffs stretch on to further games in that series. If that's the case they will probably drop some.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Also.... is now the time to talk about how OC, Sonny Kiss and Janela was in this show
> 
> all of them advertised in matches as well
> 
> or nah?
> 
> this board isn’t ready for that fucking reality check


Haha I hate two of them but that's a good point.

I suppose the counter argument is that it was a good, storytelling based show coming off a PPV and their stuff was respectable enough. And that those guys don't turn off/kinda appeal to some of the AEW younger audience but don't assist in bringing back enough of the 5 million wrestling from 10 years ago.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Guys, I'm sorry but these really are bad takes. As I've mentioned before, there is just no interest in AEW. They are driving away fans constantly. Getting to 1m viewers means nothing too, aren't you aware of the 10 percent margin of error? 💩


----------



## omaroo

Very good rating will admit.

Whether they can keep.upwards of 1 million every week, sadly that won't happen. It will go up and down like has been case for many months.

One thing I will say is trash like kiss and janela being on the show consistently is not going to help them long term.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304163683870928898


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Labor Day Holiday was a factor. But Monday Night Football starts next Monday so WWE Raw could be in real trouble.


Losing viewers during MNF didn't really matter in years past because they would ultimately come back to the show in January, however, the last 2 years, MNF drove off viewers and then those viewers didn't come back, that's fucking scary for WWE if they lose 300k viewers and they don't come back.

Last year I believe they went from 2.4-2.5 million viewers unopposed to 2.1 million against the first night of MNF.


----------



## Whoanma

Freezer Geezer said:


> Guys, I'm sorry but these really are bad takes. As I've mentioned before, there is just no interest in AEW. They are driving away fans constantly. Getting to 1m viewers means nothing too, *aren't you aware of the 10 percent margin of error?* 💩


----------



## Freezer Geezer

omaroo said:


> Very good rating will admit.
> 
> Whether they can keep.upwards of 1 million every week, sadly that won't happen. It will go up and down like has been case for many months.
> 
> One thing I will say is trash like kiss and janela being on the show consistently is not going to help them long term.


I'm not so sure tbh, all out felt like it was a closure on a number of feuds that weren't really drawing, were put in place due to the pandemic requiring the big angles to be halted and also were being used to lead the company into its first round of "big" feuds. The show feels refreshed even at this early stage. I think they'll be up to 1.2/1.3 regularly by Full Gear. There is a buzz around the company again.


----------



## Kentucky34

Not a good number.

They should have pulled between 1.2 and 1.3 million. They were unopposed and coming off a major PPV.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Kentucky34 said:


> Not a good number.
> 
> They should have pulled between 1.2 and 1.3 million. They were unopposed and coming off a major PPV.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Whoanma said:


>


The 10 percent margin of error means they really got 900k, right? Right?!


----------



## rexmundi

Great rating for AEW. One thing to consider about next week. If they air Wednesday,they will be opposite nxt. If they air Thursday it will air against Thursday Night Football. So it will be hard to replicate this week's unopposed number. I just hope they can keep putting on good shows and reaping the rewards of higher ratings.


----------



## Whoanma

Freezer Geezer said:


> The 10 percent margin of error means they really got 900k, right? Right?!


----------



## omaroo

Freezer Geezer said:


> I'm not so sure tbh, all out felt like it was a closure on a number of feuds that weren't really drawing, were put in place due to the pandemic requiring the big angles to be halted and also were being used to lead the company into its first round of "big" feuds. The show feels refreshed even at this early stage. I think they'll be up to 1.2/1.3 regularly by Full Gear. There is a buzz around the company again.


I hope they could do such numbers consistently. But the pessimist in me thinks other wise.

I do want them to succeed and become a major force in the industry in the 5 years. 

But stupid mistakes they make at times puts me off and im sure others as well.


----------



## DaSlacker

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They did a way better j
> 
> 
> Losing viewers during MNF didn't really matter in years past because they would ultimately come back to the show in January, however, the last 2 years, MNF drove off viewers and then those viewers didn't come back, that's fucking scary for WWE if they lose 300k viewers and they don't come back.
> 
> Last year I believe they went from 2.4-2.5 million viewers unopposed to 2.1 million against the first night of MNF.


And it's unlikely to be a normal Road to WrestleMania again with the epic, big stadium show in April. Personally I think Covid hurts WWE in the long term because for years the booking and presentation is integrated in flashy, tangible 20k capacity arenas and 7k fans. Thunderdome only goes so far. Generally they are being pulled down to what Vince moved them away from - studio wrasslin. For all its faults, AEW doesn't have that level of expectation and promotes itself as pro wrestling at heart.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

omaroo said:


> I hope they could do such numbers consistently. But the pessimist in me thinks other wise.
> 
> I do want them to succeed and become a major force in the industry in the 5 years.
> 
> But stupid mistakes they make at times puts me off and im sure others as well.


I had a major, major crisis of confidence the week or two before all out. To the point where I was considering not paying for the PPV. I'm glad I did though, they seem to take errors and mistakes on board and learn from them. It was the pessimist in me that thought they were about to go down a WWE route of booking consistent shit. Which is what drove me away in the first place. We've just gotta be patient I think, and give them the benefit of the doubt when they put out a sub par show. They've earned the right to have that for me as they always bounce back. Lots of reasons to be optimistic going forward. 🤟


----------



## Jazminator

Just curious: Do you think the ratings for all wrestling shows will improve once the election is over?

I kinda don’t think so. I don’t think wrestling fans would choose Hannity or Maddox over wrestling.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304163683870928898


This card is full on fire.


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> This card is full on fire.


FTR vs. Jungle Express gonna be a baaaaaaanger


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Erik. said:


> FTR vs. Jungle Express gonna be a baaaaaaanger


This might be a hot take, but I want Jurassic express to be the team that eventually take down FTR


----------



## omaroo

Yes next week should be even better show even though less promos and segments I imagine.

But with the possibility of different time slot will hurt their rating next week. No fault of their own tbh.


----------



## Not Lying

Great rating for AEW. I'm so happy for them.
The quarters rating are going to be fun, I think the showed was smooth so maybe not a lot of fluctuations.

A lot of 2-5 min segments yesterday but they found a way to make time for Starks, Omega, Page, Archer, Mox, MJF. Good job AEW.


----------



## K4L318

And ya talkin bout hittin dem numbers wit a regular card against NBA Playoff bangers.


----------



## Erik.

Tay Conti the true MVP.

She was in the first ever NXT segment to beat AEW and now her first official match on Dynamite is on a show with a million viewers.


----------



## Purple Haze

They finally got back to 1 million, i wonder if the opener or the main event did 1.1 
And all of that without depending on the Elite or Moxley.


----------



## Prosper

optikk sucks said:


> This card is full on fire.


Ivelisse vs Thunder Rosa too, can't wait for that one. 2/3 of my favorite female wrestlers in the industry.


----------



## omaroo

prosperwithdeen said:


> Ivelisse vs Thunder Rosa too, can't wait for that one. 2/3 of my favorite female wrestlers in the industry.


Maybe it's me.but find Ivelisse a bit sloppy in the ring not as smooth as say thunder rosa. Latter is my favorite female wrestler. Complete package.


----------



## DOTL

Dang. Look at that number.


----------



## Prosper

omaroo said:


> Maybe it's me.but find Ivelisse a bit sloppy in the ring not as smooth as say thunder rosa. Latter is my favorite female wrestler. Complete package.


Ivelisse does have her sloppy moments, I would put Thunder Rosa over her as well. My personal rankings/favorites are:

1.) Becky Lynch
2.) Thunder Rosa
3.) Ivelisse


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DaSlacker said:


> And it's unlikely to be a normal Road to WrestleMania again with the epic, big stadium show in April. Personally I think Covid hurts WWE in the long term because for years the booking and presentation is integrated in flashy, tangible 20k capacity arenas and 7k fans. Thunderdome only goes so far. Generally they are being pulled down to what Vince moved them away from - studio wrasslin. For all its faults, AEW doesn't have that level of expectation and promotes itself as pro wrestling at heart.


COVID definitely hurts WWE more because it's been established to an extent that when WWE viewers stop watching the show, they are usually gone for good.

Things like thunderdome and underground are only short term solutions that don't last. AEW has dipped to 600k viewers going back to last November, but they can always get those viewers back.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats good for them.


----------



## rbl85

Told you that after a PPV there always a bump in the rating


----------



## Pippen94

Next target; +1 million head to head with other wrestling show on October 14


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> Told you that after a PPV there always a bump in the rating


However - there is usually a large dip AFTER the post PPV bump.

Though last nights show actually began to start off new stories and feuds, as well as the debut of Miro - so here's hoping they can keep up that momentum. Last nights show MADE me want to tune in to next weeks show.


Where's MJF go from here?
Omegas single reign begins
What's Miro up to?
Thunder Rosa
Who's the next challenger for the TNT title?

etc etc.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pippen94 said:


> Next target; +1 million head to head with other wrestling show on October 14


NXT to announce their 1 year and 2 week on USA anniversary show any day now.


----------



## Dizzie

Think it would have been an even bigger number had miro debuted on all out as his debut clip on aew youtube channel has sky rocketed over night to the point that it will likely hit over million views in under 24 hours.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> This might be a hot take, but I want Jurassic express to be the team that eventually take down FTR


i’m solidly with you on that score


----------



## One Shed

Jazminator said:


> Just curious: Do you think the ratings for all wrestling shows will improve once the election is over?
> 
> I kinda don’t think so. I don’t think wrestling fans would choose Hannity or Maddox over wrestling.


Depends who wins heh. If it is a close or contested election, the news numbers will just go up. And it will not improve anyway until January 20th assuming Biden wins. If that happens, then news numbers will go down.


----------



## imthegame19

Erik. said:


> 709,000 off of Raw is the smallest gap that a North American wrestling companies show has had since WCW in 1999.
> 
> Continue to smash it AEW - you're on the right path.


Yep and IMO the talent level between Raw/Smackdown and what AEW has is closer then ever before. WWE not making new stars for so long and older talent leaving. Kinda allows AEW to put fresh coat or paint on a few guys and they all appear the same.


No matter what "opinions" on certain there's very little different in drawing power and talent. The difference between Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, MJF, Miro, Adam Page, Brodie Lee, Pac, Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, Lance Archer, Darby Allin, Dustin Rhodes, Sammy Guevara etc. Compared to Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Drew McIntyre, Bray Wyatt, AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio, Braun Strowman, Kevin Owens, Jeff Hardy, Bobby Lashley, Keith Lee, Baron Corbin, Sheamus, Matt Riddle, Dolph Ziggler, Miz etc. Especially when you spread WWE top guys over two shows.


WWE still has deeper roster but level of stars is closer then ever. Even though TNA in 2010 had a lot of big names. Most of them where past their prime. So they still didn't come lose to comparing to Cena, Undertaker, Orton, Edge, Triple H and every one else they had. Even in 1999 WCW stars and named looked old and lame compared to Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Foley etc. 



In 2020 there's a good number of wrestling fans who would say Jon Moxley, Jericho and Cody are as good or better then Reigns, Orton or Rollins. Or like Omega more then AJ Styles and drawing wise you can't argue it. Even if opinions will among fans. In 2010 there was no doubt John Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Edge blew away Kurt Angle or 50 year old Sting etc. There was no debating that. 



Basically what is happening is WWE had too much talent on same level. Vince pushed his favorites and others got casted aside. But when the guys you push don't turn into big stars. While equally talented guys go else where get pushed strong. Well it looks like your talent on same level. 


The only advantage WWE has his branding of WWE and Raw/Smackdown shows. They are more known and have built in audience. While WWE woman division has main event level talent. As time goes on AEW will build on their brand and make woman's division stronger. It's gonna come down to who makes their talent biggest stars long term. Right now rosters are way too even. For WWE and AEW. When AEW has ex WWE guys not used correctly or guys from other places that WWE choose not to sign.


----------



## Klitschko

You guys got to stop hoping The Wood will reply in here. He's probably going to take a week off from here like the last time they had that high 950k rating. So don't expect him to post in here.


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> Yeah hopefully they don't fall back into the post PPV 6 week rest where they just chill and do a light build to a TV special. Obviously they can't go balls to the walls 51 weeks a year. But I'm hoping they go all in on Omega vs Page and Moxley vs Archer sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> 
> They for a lot of charismatic guys, even if they aren't guys I personally like that much. Like The Elite guys are all pretty damn charismatic, MJF is as well.


 they arent going to do omega vs adam page anytime soon. Maybe in a year or a year or half. Mox vs archer I think is announced for the anniversary show or something like that tho


----------



## Erik.

patpat said:


> they arent going to do omega vs adam page anytime soon. Maybe in a year or a year or half. Mox vs archer I think is announced for the anniversary show or something like that tho


Agreed - they're saving that for the belt.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> they arent going to do omega vs adam page anytime soon. Maybe in a year or a year or half. Mox vs archer I think is announced for the anniversary show or something like that tho





Erik. said:


> Agreed - they're saving that for the belt.


If they hold off that long they're fucking dumb. Hot shotting shit is bad, but so is overcooking stuff. That would be super unsatisfying to do 9 months of will they won't they, just to not go through with it. They need good fleshed out stories now, not a year from now.


----------



## patpat

Erik. said:


> Agreed - they're saving that for the belt.


One year tag team, omega goes as a single and gets his iconic aew world title run then page who was able to climb back to the top of the mountain, to his level finds him again for a fuel of fate. That feud should be one of the best aew is ever gonna do. Hopefully everything goes perfect 
For now the focus I believe will be on the omega / moxley II( series) and trust me when I tell you, this time around this feud is gonna blow up the fucking ratings, particularly if omega's new character is what I think he is going for. The cleaner vs the purveyor of violence. The rematch to a fight that was so hard and special the authorities fined the company. Shit writes itself


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> If they hold off that long they're fucking dumb. Hot shotting shit is bad, but so is overcooking stuff. That would be super unsatisfying to do 9 months of will they won't they, just to not go through with it. They need good fleshed out stories now, not a year from now.


They are going to. And it's going to work, they literally held back a omega single run for an entire year but in the meantime the tag team stuff. Was hyped. There is absolutely no reason to do this match right now because there is barely any heat or story, page's current "muhhh sad" vibe isnt the kind if shit you use to sell a mega fight and omega needs to have a proper run and title run before this match even means something In term of super fight.


----------



## sim8

patpat said:


> They are going to. And it's going to work, they literally held back a omega single run for an entire year but in the meantime the tag team stuff. Was hyped. There is absolutely no reason to do this match right now because there is barely any heat or story, page's current "muhhh sad" vibe isnt the kind if shit you use to sell a mega fight and omega needs to have a proper run and title run before this match even means something In term of super fight.


Ok I initially thought what a stupid idea to hold off on Page vs Omega but you convinced me. 

I was so down on AEW after All Out was so disappointing but damn it, they got me hyped up again


----------



## Klitschko

I would do Omega/Hangman at Double or Nothing. After the kind of failed ALL OUT event, they can hype it up as their wrestlemania and Hangman/Omega can be one of the big matches that has been building for a long time. for the world title. That gives it like another 6 months or so to really get the feud heated.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Nice fucking ratings love it keep it going.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> If they hold off that long they're fucking dumb. Hot shotting shit is bad, but so is overcooking stuff. That would be super unsatisfying to do 9 months of will they won't they, just to not go through with it. They need good fleshed out stories now, not a year from now.


Not neccessarily. Omega has made it pretty much clear he wants to move on. 

Neither of them are heels yet. I still think in time that'll come. They have zero reason to feud right now. Page still wants Omega as a partner and friend. 

They go their separate ways. With the story always being there when Omega turns heel and Page starts his redemption phase. 

Something inside of Page will eventually ignite him on that road. Let's find out what it is.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> They are going to. And it's going to work, they literally held back a omega single run for an entire year but in the meantime the tag team stuff. Was hyped. There is absolutely no reason to do this match right now because there is barely any heat or story, page's current "muhhh sad" vibe isnt the kind if shit you use to sell a mega fight and omega needs to have a proper run and title run before this match even means something In term of super fight.


This throwing away 9 months of build for nothing. Kenny wants to go back into singles, how about prove it by beating his former friend and tag team partner. What you're suggesting is just over doing it for the sake of over doing. They go their seperate ways for a year, both succeed then they AEW hastily try to bring up that time they used to be partners and pretend they're still upset about that, despite finding single success. That's not good storytelling. 

I mean seriously are you really arguing that a storyline that fans have clearly been supporting and anticipating for 9 months isn't shit you use to sell a mega fight? This has the most build in the company, but yeah don't do it. Because we need to cobble together a Moxley vs Omega feud in 6 weeks after the anniversary show.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Not neccessarily. Omega has made it pretty much clear he wants to move on.
> 
> Neither of them are heels yet. I still think in time that'll come. They have zero reason to feud right now. Page still wants Omega as a partner and friend.
> 
> They go their separate ways. With the story always being there when Omega turns heel and Page starts his redemption phase.
> 
> Something inside of Page will eventually ignite him on that road. Let's find out what it is.


0 reasons to feud, n*gga what lol. They've spent 9 months doing a will they won't they, when will they break up build. They break up and you're honestly saying they have no reason to feud right now. Hell Omega wanting to prove how over being a tag partner with Page is enough reason to feud, let alone the fact they've been building to it for a year.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> This throwing away 9 months of build for nothing. Kenny wants to go back into singles, how about prove it by beating his former friend and tag team partner. What you're suggesting is just over doing it for the sake of over doing. They go their seperate ways for a year, both succeed then they AEW hastily try to bring up that time they used to be partners and pretend they're still upset about that, despite finding single success. That's not good storytelling.
> 
> I mean seriously are you really arguing that a storyline that fans have clearly been supporting and anticipating for 9 months isn't shit you use to sell a mega fight? This has the most build in the company, but yeah don't do it. Because we need to cobble together a Moxley vs Omega feud in 6 weeks after the anniversary show.


I'm more thinking the timeline should be in the middle of your two ideas.I think pat is right in that Page right now as a character isn't sellabke as a mega fight neither is omega.Give it a few weeks to let Hangman start wanting his redemption and Kenny to go cleaner again.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> 0 reasons to feud, n*gga what lol. They've spent 9 months doing a will they won't they, when will they break up build. They break up and you're honestly saying they have no reason to feud right now. Hell Omega wanting to prove how over being a tag partner with Page is enough reason to feud, let alone the fact they've been building to it for a year.


Did you even watch Dynamite? Or do you just not actually understand the story both men portrayed?


----------



## Prosper

patpat said:


> They are going to. And it's going to work, they literally held back a omega single run for an entire year but in the meantime the tag team stuff. Was hyped. There is absolutely no reason to do this match right now because there is barely any heat or story, page's current "muhhh sad" vibe isnt the kind if shit you use to sell a mega fight and omega needs to have a proper run and title run before this match even means something In term of super fight.


If they’re gonna give Omega the AEW World Title sometime before Revolution then I would 100% hold off on the Hangman feud. Itll mean so much more and Omega would be full blown heel with Page as a full blown face. If that’s not the plan, then just do the Hangman feud now.


----------



## Erik.

prosperwithdeen said:


> If they’re gonna give Omega the AEW World Title sometime before Revolution then I would 100% hold off on the Hangman feud. Itll mean so much more and Omega would be full blown heel with Page as a full blown face. If that’s not the plan, then just do the Hangman feud now.


But what do they gain from doing the Hangman feud now?

The last Dynamite pretty much told us they weren't building an Omega/Hangman feud or heel turn at all and it was alot better than that.

Page is now scared that his tag team run is over because he knows being tag team champion, with Omega was what gave him happiness. He wants to recapture the gold. Omega doesn't. This scares Page even more because now he's alone.

Omega, actually showed thanks towards Page, but he and we all know he needs to be singles. He prefers to move on because he knows he's better. Not because he doesn't like Page or doesn't want to be with him, but because he was ambition.

Interestingly, Omega never once mentioned Pages issues. You know why? Because Omega himself knows he hasn't been a good friend.

Hangman however wants that feeling again, of succeeding. Achieving. Sadly for him, Omega doesn't feel the same because as mentioned, he wants the biggest prize. Page just wants to belong to something.

"I feel like I'm head to toe full of poison"

Something is definitely brewing and he's going to snap at some point.

But I don't think it'll be at Omega - the redemption comes when Omega is champion and Page has earned the right to face his partner and finally get that big win that's alluded him as a singles competitor. And getting that win over the guy he needed for so long.


----------



## RapShepard

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I'm more thinking the timeline should be in the middle of your two ideas.I think pat is right in that Page right now as a character isn't sellabke as a mega fight neither is omega.Give it a few weeks to let Hangman start wanting his redemption and Kenny to go cleaner again.


But the thing is it makes more sense to use this story that already has legs to send them off into their character changes. Why would you have Kenny go cleaner in a story that only has weeks worth of build when this has 9 months of build. If Page is going to be broken, why not let Kenny do it and get that heat. Then you start Page's redemption by doing something like (hate I'm about to say this) but having FTR and Tully come around and pick him up while he's down for that 4 Horseman group fans want




Erik. said:


> Did you even watch Dynamite? Or do you just not actually understand the story both men portrayed?


Do you watch Dynamite, because pretending they have no reason to fight is plain goofy. You can say you'd rather wait, but pretending they have nothing to fight about isn't close to the truth. Imagine sitting here saying "well sure Page wants to remain friends and Omega doesn't. They've been teasing a split since last December and even teased it at Revolution. But nah there's nothing to fight about. But when Kenny wins a title then it'll be time to fight". 

In y'all's desire to make things as "omg super epic this is for a title". You're throwing out a perfectly logical and necessary feud that has heat now.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RapShepard said:


> If they hold off that long they're fucking dumb. Hot shotting shit is bad, but so is overcooking stuff. That would be super unsatisfying to do 9 months of will they won't they, just to not go through with it. They need good fleshed out stories now, not a year from now.


They aren't holding off. This is just fantasy booking from hardcore Omega fans who have been wrong about literally everything so far. These are the same people who were convinced that Omega would be the one to dethrone Jericho.

Page and Omega will feud and Page will go over.

Omega is enhancement talent. Nothing more. Some people are going to have to come to terms with that.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Do you watch Dynamite, because pretending they have no reason to fight is plain goofy. You can say you'd rather wait, but pretending they have nothing to fight about isn't close to the truth. Imagine sitting here saying "well sure Page wants to remain friends and Omega doesn't. They've been teasing a split since last December and even teased it at Revolution. But nah there's nothing to fight about. But when Kenny wins a title then it'll be time to fight".
> 
> In y'all's desire to make things as "omg super epic this is for a title". You're throwing out a perfectly logical and necessary feud that has heat now.


After watching this week's Dynamite and listening to both sit down interviews, what reason is there for them to begin that feud now? Tell me. 

I didn't once say I preferred them to wait. I said it doesn't make sense to do it now.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> After watching this week's Dynamite and listening to both sit down interviews, what reason is there for them to begin that feud now? Tell me.
> 
> I didn't once say I preferred them to wait. I said it doesn't make sense to do it now.


Uh for Kenny to prove to Page he's not kidding about being done with him.


----------



## RapShepard

AEWMoxley said:


> They aren't holding off. This is just fantasy booking from hardcore Omega fans who have been wrong about literally everything so far. These are the same people who were convinced that Omega would be the one to dethrone Jericho.
> 
> Page and Omega will feud and Page will go over.
> 
> Omega is enhancement talent. Nothing more. Some people are going to have to come to terms with that.


I know we're all fantasy booking. But if they were right, AEW would be dumb to throw away all that build. Forcing something to be epic just because is silly


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> Uh for Kenny to prove to Page he's not kidding about being done with him.


Despite Omega clearly being thankful towards him in the interview. Okay.

Page is the one who isn't going to be able to let go. He's the one fighting the demons. 

If that leads to Page inadvertently costing Omega matches by trying to help him out and fucking up, leading to a potential match which Omega wins, so be it.

Certainly won't be the end.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RapShepard said:


> I know we're all fantasy booking. But if they were right, AEW would be dumb to throw away all that build. Forcing something to be epic just because is silly


They aren't. These people have literally always been wrong.

You'd think that @patpat would have learned his lesson after those embarrassing posts about "Alpha and Omega" and how Omega would surely dethrone Jericho in their trilogy match.


----------



## bdon

Omega didn’t need to hit Page at All Out. That is still his friend, but Page fucked up. Now Omega is just done with him, but Page still wants things to be the same.

So, the story evolves from the drunk emo who just wants to be left alone to one of the beligerent drunk at the party who refuses respect others’ space. No one wants to be around the drunk who has already caused a scene, but he is still ultimately a drunk that is now beligerently apologetic.

“I’m so sorry, bro! I love you, man! We’re like brothers! We shouldn’t be fighting! You forgive me, right!?”

And that continues until someone tires of this drunk buffoon hanging on their shoulder, following them when they try to walk away from the convo, apologizing, and they eventually have to knock him out.

Page is not going to respect Kenny’s wishes, showing up at ringside or the back, and is going to be laid out for it.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> Omega didn’t need to hit Page at All Out. That is still his friend, but Page fucked up. Now Omega is just done with him, but Page still wants things to be the same.
> 
> So, the story evolves from the drunk emo who just wants to be left alone to one of the beligerent drunk at the party who refuses respect others’ space. No one wants to be around the drunk who has already caused a scene, but he is still ultimately a drunk that is now beligerently apologetic.
> 
> “I’m so sorry, bro! I love you, man! We’re like brothers! We shouldn’t be fighting! You forgive me, right!?”
> 
> And that continues until someone tires of this drunk buffoon hanging on their shoulder, following them when they try to walk away from the convo, apologizing, and they eventually have to knock him out.
> 
> Page is not going to respect Kenny’s wishes, showing up at ringside or the back, and is going to be laid out for it.


Pretty much this. 

Omega has a clinger on his hands. 

Page got his wish of being out of the Elite, but deep down he knows that being part of something was all he's ever really wanted. 

Losing Omegas respect and losing him for good will be detrimental to him.


----------



## rich110991

Great stuff! The revolution is real.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Despite Omega clearly being thankful towards him in the interview. Okay.
> 
> Page is the one who isn't going to be able to let go. He's the one fighting the demons.
> 
> If that leads to Page inadvertently costing Omega matches by trying to help him out and fucking up, leading to a potential match which Omega wins, so be it.
> 
> Certainly won't be the end.


For somebody who was just being condescending about understanding stories I'm surprised at this take. 

So at All Out we see Omega almost hit Page with a table, let Page fall flat on his face when he could've caught him, and give the Buck's an ultimatum to pick him or Hangman. But we're supposed to believe all that tension is gone now, riiiight.


----------



## Klitschko

As a big AEW fan, I got to say. Where the hell do you guys come up with these stories and fantasy booking?

To me personally, if it didn't happen on TV then its all fantasy booking. But some of you guys are going deep deep DEEP mother fucking deep into these wrestlers thoughts and creating stories that potentially are not even there.

As much as I love AEW, its most likely going to be a generic "I turned on you because you held me back" story and then they will feud and it will be hyped up as some epic mega feud. Hell, to this day I still have no idea what Omega and Moxley were feuding over for example, and their match at full gear is my favorite AEW match ever.


----------



## DaSlacker

imthegame19 said:


> Yep and IMO the talent level between Raw/Smackdown and what AEW has is closer then ever before. WWE not making new stars for so long and older talent leaving. Kinda allows AEW to put fresh coat or paint on a few guys and they all appear the same.
> 
> 
> No matter what "opinions" on certain there's very little different in drawing power and talent. The difference between Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, MJF, Miro, Adam Page, Brodie Lee, Pac, Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Jake Hager, Lance Archer, Darby Allin, Dustin Rhodes, Sammy Guevara etc. Compared to Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Drew McIntyre, Bray Wyatt, AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio, Braun Strowman, Kevin Owens, Jeff Hardy, Bobby Lashley, Keith Lee, Baron Corbin, Sheamus, Matt Riddle, Dolph Ziggler, Miz etc. Especially when you spread WWE top guys over two shows.
> 
> 
> WWE still has deeper roster but level of stars is closer then ever. Even though TNA in 2010 had a lot of big names. Most of them where past their prime. So they still didn't come lose to comparing to Cena, Undertaker, Orton, Edge, Triple H and every one else they had. Even in 1999 WCW stars and named looked old and lame compared to Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Foley etc.
> 
> 
> 
> In 2020 there's a good number of wrestling fans who would say Jon Moxley, Jericho and Cody are as good or better then Reigns, Orton or Rollins. Or like Omega more then AJ Styles and drawing wise you can't argue it. Even if opinions will among fans. In 2010 there was no doubt John Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Edge blew away Kurt Angle or 50 year old Sting etc. There was no debating that.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically what is happening is WWE had too much talent on same level. Vince pushed his favorites and others got casted aside. But when the guys you push don't turn into big stars. While equally talented guys go else where get pushed strong. Well it looks like your talent on same level.
> 
> 
> The only advantage WWE has his branding of WWE and Raw/Smackdown shows. They are more known and have built in audience. While WWE woman division has main event level talent. As time goes on AEW will build on their brand and make woman's division stronger. It's gonna come down to who makes their talent biggest stars long term. Right now rosters are way too even. For WWE and AEW. When AEW has ex WWE guys not used correctly or guys from other places that WWE choose not to sign.


This is a superb post.

Also worth noting Rey and Jeff bring a bit of that star power to the roster. Unfortunately for Vince both are getting up their in age and injury prone. That just leaves Orton. Sheamus and Lashley are also getting up their in terms of age. Ziggler and Miz are now past their prime. Corbin's career has peaked. Styles has already played heel twice and face twice and held the title for a year. Not sure what's left for him to do. Wyatt's drawing as the Fiend but damn that whole persona is WTF booking.

Page and MJF are way more exciting than Riddle and Lee. Simply because they aren't disrupted by Vince's archaic platform of unnatural promos and buzzwords.


----------



## bdon

The handling of the Omega/Hangman story is to maintain an organic story. Your best friends gets drunk and starts shit with your other friends, you don’t fucking cold cock him. You try and talk sense into him, make him see that he needs to chill and let it go.

When he doesn’t, you try to avoid him, knowing the trouble and drama that follows him. Eventually he will find his way to the crowd, drunk, showing his ass, won’t respect everyone’s wishes to not bother them, and someone chills him.

That is how Kenny and Hangman go their seperate ways, and it won’t require a feud. It will pinpoint the moment that Kenny stopped thinking of his friends and focused on himself and the climb to the top, free of the Hangman/Bucks distraction.

In turn, that will be the catalyst for Hangman, his rock bottom. He’ll put away the alcohol, refocus, and begin his own climb back to respectability culminating in a Teacher vs Student passing of the torch.

They only get where they’re going thanks to the other. Drama, high level storytelling. ORGANIC and realistic.


----------



## RapShepard

AEWMoxley said:


> They aren't. These people have literally always been wrong.
> 
> You'd think that @patpat would have learned his lesson after those embarrassing posts about "Alpha and Omega" and how Omega would surely dethrone Jericho in their trilogy match.


With AEW you never know because they like to go for long. To


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Omega didn’t need to hit Page at All Out. That is still his friend, but Page fucked up. Now Omega is just done with him, but Page still wants things to be the same.
> 
> So, the story evolves from the drunk emo who just wants to be left alone to one of the beligerent drunk at the party who refuses respect others’ space. No one wants to be around the drunk who has already caused a scene, but he is still ultimately a drunk that is now beligerently apologetic.
> 
> “I’m so sorry, bro! I love you, man! We’re like brothers! We shouldn’t be fighting! You forgive me, right!?”
> 
> And that continues until someone tires of this drunk buffoon hanging on their shoulder, following them when they try to walk away from the convo, apologizing, and they eventually have to knock him out.
> 
> Page is not going to respect Kenny’s wishes, showing up at ringside or the back, and is going to be laid out for it.


I hope Kenny didn't put in all of that effort being average and not overshadowing Page so Hangman could be the annoying drunk at a party. That gimmick would immediately bury him, considering people liked him because he was a badass cowboy.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> For somebody who was just being condescending about understanding stories I'm surprised at this take.
> 
> So at All Out we see Omega almost hit Page with a table, let Page fall flat on his face when he could've caught him, and give the Buck's an ultimatum to pick him or Hangman. But we're supposed to believe all that tension is gone now, riiiight.


Omega wants to move on from Page and it's obvious he wants to do so quickly. He comes across as a dick, like he did at All Out, but to him, it's not _his_ fault Page cant handle it all. 

Omega simply isn't going to let Page hold him down anymore. He simply doesn't care. That doesn't mean he doesn't respect him or cant be thankful. It's just not his business anymore. Brush it off and move on. 

That's where the characters of Page and Omega are so very different. 

This is why Omega vs Page, for me, shouldn't happen right away. Page is beneath him and he knows it and Page doesn't want to go up against Omega because he wants him as a partner. 

Over the next few weeks something will happen that'll spark something. I look forward to it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Klitschko said:


> As a big AEW fan, I got to say. Where the hell do you guys come up with these stories and fantasy booking?
> 
> To me personally, if it didn't happen on TV then its all fantasy booking. But some of you guys are going deep deep DEEP mother fucking deep into these wrestlers thoughts and creating stories that potentially are not even there.
> 
> As much as I love AEW, its most likely going to be a generic "I turned on you because you held me back" story and then they will feud and it will be hyped up as some epic mega feud. Hell, to this day I still have no idea what Omega and Moxley were feuding over for example, and their match at full gear is my favorite AEW match ever.


Most people on this forum have absolutely nothing going on in their lives, and so they've got plenty of time to come up with these long winded ideas. It's too bad they don't have the logic to go along with all of that time, because these ideas are embarrassingly laughable.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> The handling of the Omega/Hangman story is to maintain an organic story. Your best friends gets drunk and starts shit with your other friends, you don’t fucking cold cock him. You try and talk sense into him, make him see that he needs to chill and let it go.
> 
> When he doesn’t, you try to avoid him, knowing the trouble and drama that follows him. Eventually he will find his way to the crowd, drunk, showing his ass, won’t respect everyone’s wishes to not bother them, and someone chills him.
> 
> That is how Kenny and Hangman go their seperate ways, and it won’t require a feud. It will pinpoint the moment that Kenny stopped thinking of his friends and focused on himself and the climb to the top, free of the Hangman/Bucks distraction.
> 
> In turn, that will be the catalyst for Hangman, his rock bottom. He’ll put away the alcohol, refocus, and begin his own climb back to respectability culminating in a Teacher vs Student passing of the torch.
> 
> They only get where they’re going thanks to the other. Drama, high level storytelling. ORGANIC and realistic.


Nothing about prolonging it until Omega is champion is organic. You being a Kenny fan is over crowding your common sense. They have a ready made feud with 9 months of build, and we have folk going "nah it's not ready yet". If it's not ready now then it'll never be ready because their will always be some other extra epic thing to add. "Well sure Omega is champ, but now isn't the time. Page needs to be the TNT champion and they can feud over both belts and for the right to be first triple crown champion"


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> Omega wants to move on from Page and it's obvious he wants to do so quickly. He comes across as a dick, like he did at All Out, but to him, it's not _his_ fault Page cant handle it all.
> 
> Omega simply isn't going to let Page hold him down anymore. He simply doesn't care. That doesn't mean he doesn't respect him or cant be thankful. It's just not his business anymore. Brush it off and move on.
> 
> That's where the characters of Page and Omega are so very different.
> 
> This is why Omega vs Page, for me, shouldn't happen right away. Page is beneath him and he knows it and Page doesn't want to go up against Omega because he wants him as a partner.
> 
> Over the next few weeks something will happen that'll spark something. I look forward to it.


For me it needs to be the feud now. Not in the sense they need to fight next week. But in the sense that come Full Gear it's settled. Waiting until a Revolution, Double or Nothing, or All Out 3 is dragging it and killing all the great build they've done.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

I'd be rather disappointed if we don't get a full on heel turn from at least one of them (Kenny) with a match against Page at full gear. If Kenny goes straight for the title at Full Gear and wins that really feels like it'll have been too rushed. How do we get the heat and heel turn for Omega without a dominant win first? There is no real redemption angle for Page if he doesn't face Omega and lose that first time which sets him on a downward spiral. Have him lose the first match and then eventually have the redemption angle and have him take the title off cocky arsehole Kenny. 

If they just go their separate ways Omega won't have any build into a title run, and Page wins the title off of someone that's his friend and not a bitter rival/enemy. Doesn't make any sense from a storyline perspective for me. There needs to be some major fall out first and I'm not sure Page being a clingy friend is the way to do that.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> For me it needs to be the feud now. Not in the sense they need to fight next week. But in the sense that come Full Gear it's settled. Waiting until a Revolution, Double or Nothing, or All Out 3 is dragging it and killing all the great build they've done.


If it's Omega literally obliterating Page for 10 minutes and telling him to stay down before pinning him 123, then sure.

Roll on the next chapter of Pages development. The lonely loser who can't get the job completed at singles level on his own. Spiraling into further misery.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

AEWMoxley said:


> Most people on this forum have absolutely nothing going on in their lives, and so they've got plenty of time to come up with these long winded ideas. It's too bad they don't have the logic to go along with all of that time, because these ideas are embarrassingly laughable.


Err, you're on the forum too bud. Self awareness and all that.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Freezer Geezer said:


> Err, you're on the forum too bud. Self awareness and all that.


Of course I am. But I said most, not all.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

AEWMoxley said:


> Of course I am. But I said most, not all.


Bit of an assumption to jump too saying "most" people on here have nothing going on in their lives just because they enjoy writing about something we're all passionate about.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The viewership and ratings are still down overall on average. 

Dynamite's average viewership and ratings 

10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating
10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating
10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating
10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating
10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating
11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating
11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating
11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating
11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating
12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating
12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating
12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating

Average viewership 911k viewers 0.38 rating

Pre-pandemic
1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating
1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating
1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating
1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating
2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating
2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating
2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating
2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating
3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating
3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating

Average viewership 884k viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% viewership drop and 8% drop in ratings

During pandemic
3/18/20 932,000 viewers 0.35 rating
3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating
4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating
4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating
4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27 rating
5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating
5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating
5/20/20 701,000 vieewers 0.26 rating
5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating
6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating
6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating
6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating
6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating
7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating
7/8/20 715,000 viewers 0.28 rating
7/15/20 788,000 viewers 0.29 rating
7/22/20 845,000 viewers 0.32 rating
7/29/20 773,000 viewers 0.30 rating
8/5/20 901,000 viewers 0.36 rating
8/12/20 792,000 viewers 0.32 rating
8/22/20 755,000 viewers 0.31 rating
8/27/20 813,000 viewers 0.29 rating
9/2/20 928,000 0.36 rating
9/9/20 1.016 million viewers 0.37 rating

Average viewership during the pandemic is 770,000 viewers with a 0.29 rating. Thats a 23% drop in viewership and a 8% drop in ratings since the pandemic.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Ozell Gray said:


> The viewership and ratings are still down overall on average.
> 
> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings
> 
> 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating
> 10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating
> 10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating
> 10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating
> 10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating
> 11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating
> 11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating
> 11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating
> 12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 
> Average viewership 911k viewers 0.38 rating
> 
> Pre-pandemic
> 1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating
> 1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating
> 2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating
> 2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating
> 
> Average viewership 884k viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% viewership drop and 8% drop in ratings
> 
> During pandemic
> 3/18/20 932,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating
> 4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27 rating
> 5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating
> 5/20/20 701,000 vieewers 0.26 rating
> 5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating
> 6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating
> 7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 7/8/20 715,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 7/15/20 788,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 7/22/20 845,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 7/29/20 773,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 8/5/20 901,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 8/12/20 792,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 8/22/20 755,000 viewers 0.31 rating
> 8/27/20 813,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 9/2/20 928,000 0.36 rating
> 9/9/20 1.016 million viewers 0.37 rating
> 
> Average viewership during the pandemic is 770,000 viewers with a 0.29 rating. Thats a 23% drop in viewership and a 8% drop in ratings since the pandemic.












I thought you'd been banned.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Freezer Geezer said:


> I thought you'd been banned.


If you actually bothered to look you would've seen that I left this section a month ago and has been posting in the WWE section 😒


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Ozell Gray said:


> If you actually bothered to look you would've seen that I left this section a month ago and has been posting in the WWE section 😒


And what a joyful month it was.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Freezer Geezer said:


> And what a joyful month it was.


Yeah I know such an enjoyable month getting emotional over @Chip Chipperson, @The Wood, and @Cult03 ect for posting negative things about AEW. Such an enjoyable month.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah I know such an enjoyable month getting emotional over @Chip Chipperson, @The Wood, and @Cult03 ect for posting negative things about AEW. Such an enjoyable month.


They actually make posts and back up what they're saying generally. You just spam the same shit over and over. Pretty sure I've seen you post that same thing multiple times, in the exact same laboured and worn out style.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Freezer Geezer said:


> They actually make posts and back up what they're saying generally. You just spam the same shit over and over. Pretty sure I've seen you post that same thing multiple times, in the exact same laboured and worn out style.


Funny because I just backed up what I said with facts and you got butthurt about it. All you do is just try to argue with people who don't like AEW.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Ozell Gray said:


> Funny because I just backed up what I said with facts and you got butthurt about it. All you do is just try to argue with people who don't like AEW.


Yes, as I just said. You post the same thing over and over again. It was boring the second time you tried to troll using it. The actual "statistics" from your post are pretty much meaningless too but you already know that don't you.


----------



## Freezer Geezer

Interesting that you admit you don't like AEW though. At least you're being honest for once. Thank you for clarifying you're just here to troll.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Freezer Geezer said:


> Yes, as I just said. You post the same thing over and over again. It was boring the second time you tried to troll using it. The actual "statistics" from your post are pretty much meaningless too but you already know that don't you.


Using factual data isn't "trolling" but you are already knew that though. Facts tells you all you need to know which is what I posted.


----------



## Y2K23

If you would've told me 2 years ago that another major american wrestling promotion would appear out of nowhere and become an instant huge success I would've adviced you to quit drugs.

but they managed to do it,let's enjoy the ride as this company continues growing


----------



## patpat

sim8 said:


> Ok I initially thought what a stupid idea to hold off on Page vs Omega but you convinced me.
> 
> I was so down on AEW after All Out was so disappointing but damn it, they got me hyped up again


Page vs omega one year or more from now, omega is champ, page was able to climb the ladder after he was abandoned by omega when he still saw him as his tag partner. The culmination of that story in a mega fight after you build omega and page( who should get the TNT title run too) properly is much better than doing it right now when there is barely any heat . And going by how the show is booked and their promos they arent doing this anytime soon. Patience is key


----------



## NXT Only

Ozell Gray said:


> The viewership and ratings are still down overall on average.
> 
> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings
> 
> 10/2/19 1,409,000 viewers 0.68 rating
> 10/9/19 1,140,000 viewers 0.46 rating
> 10/16/19 1,014,000 viewers 0.44 rating
> 10/23/19 963,000 viewers 0.45 rating
> 10/30/19 759,000 viewers 0.33 rating
> 11/6/19 822,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 11/13/19 957,000 viewers 0.43 rating
> 11/20/19 893,000 viewers 0.39 rating
> 11/27/19 663,000 viewers 0.26 rating
> 12/4/19 851,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 12/11/19 778,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 12/18/19 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 
> Average viewership 911k viewers 0.38 rating
> 
> Pre-pandemic
> 1/1/20 967,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 1/8/20 947,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 1/15/20 940,000 viewers 0.38 rating
> 1/22/20 871,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 1/29/20 828,000 viewers 0.34 rating
> 2/5/20 928,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 2/12/20 817,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 2/19/20 893,000 viewers 0.31 rating
> 2/26/20 865,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 3/4/20 906,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 3/11/20 766,000 viewers 0.26 rating
> 
> Average viewership 884k viewers and 0.33 rating. Thats a 9% viewership drop and 8% drop in ratings
> 
> During pandemic
> 3/18/20 932,000 viewers 0.35 rating
> 3/25/20 819,000 viewers 0.34 rating
> 4/1/20 685,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/8/20 692,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 4/15/20 683,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/22/20 731,000 viewers 0.25 rating
> 4/29/20 693,000 viewers 0.27 rating
> 5/6/20 732,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 5/13/20 654,000 viewers 0.23 rating
> 5/20/20 701,000 vieewers 0.26 rating
> 5/27/20 827,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 6/3/20 730,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 6/10/20 677,000 viewers 0.23 rating
> 6/17/20 772,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 6/24/20 633,000 viewers 0.22 rating
> 7/1/20 748,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 7/8/20 715,000 viewers 0.28 rating
> 7/15/20 788,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 7/22/20 845,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 7/29/20 773,000 viewers 0.30 rating
> 8/5/20 901,000 viewers 0.36 rating
> 8/12/20 792,000 viewers 0.32 rating
> 8/22/20 755,000 viewers 0.31 rating
> 8/27/20 813,000 viewers 0.29 rating
> 9/2/20 928,000 0.36 rating
> 9/9/20 1.016 million viewers 0.37 rating
> 
> Average viewership during the pandemic is 770,000 viewers with a 0.29 rating. Thats a 23% drop in viewership and a 8% drop in ratings since the pandemic.


Lol you're not serious.

Anyway I and many others told you viewership would be fine.


----------



## patpat

prosperwithdeen said:


> If they’re gonna give Omega the AEW World Title sometime before Revolution then I would 100% hold off on the Hangman feud. Itll mean so much more and Omega would be full blown heel with Page as a full blown face. If that’s not the plan, then just do the Hangman feud now.


I believe edoing the feud story now is dumb. Omega just cut a promo explaining how he literally doesnt care about page or tag team wrestling and wants to move the fuck on. Page did a promo about how he is a failure miserable to his friends and is the reason they lost yada yada , this feud happening right now would have absolutely zero heat and leave zero impact in history. How do you even sell anything when both have such mindset? Their is nothing here to work with. Just because they were a tag team for 1 year doesnt mean there is enough substance here for a good feud. You can be sure blowing that feud right now will do NADA for either men.
@Erik. Where I disagree with you is saying omega isnt a heel. Well its complicated he isnt entirely but he is clearly heading towards that with giant steps , he was already wreslting very heelish before the all out match. And his demeanor just screams pretentious dude. Talking about how he is supposed to be the ace, and how he is just going to do that now, there is something inherently arrogant in this that to me, is heelish. Being the "Ace" isnt a babyface goal. Babyface fight for high moral things like recognition, beating evil, etc his redemption story is just an excuse for a heel character I think.

Also like Erik again said the only way to make page vs omega happen right now would be a squash. After last dynamite and their promos their is absolutely zero animosity , and page's character is not taking the direction of one who is in for such a fight at all, neither is the character ready for such battle. His character right now is that he is an absolute mess who has to hit rock bottom before starting to rise, the smart thing would be to let those two not touch each others and just build their stories in parallel. Omega gives up ob page to seek greater height and page brings himself up later to fight him. That's the kind of booking they do, if you are expecting a short term payoff or some shocking shit you're in for a disappointment, I also excepted a generic heel turn for omega and bringing back the cleaner. Turns out its not happening because characters are more complex than monolith who are just turned heel or face, just like fights dont happen just to fill c a check book but need a meaning a story that fits and the right amount of heat


----------



## Garty

*HOLY SCHNIKES!*


----------



## Prized Fighter

John Silver is part of the main event = 1 million viewers. It's science.


----------



## imthegame19

DaSlacker said:


> This is a superb post.
> 
> Also worth noting Rey and Jeff bring a bit of that star power to the roster. Unfortunately for Vince both are getting up their in age and injury prone. That just leaves Orton. Sheamus and Lashley are also getting up their in terms of age. Ziggler and Miz are now past their prime. Corbin's career has peaked. Styles has already played heel twice and face twice and held the title for a year. Not sure what's left for him to do. Wyatt's drawing as the Fiend but damn that whole persona is WTF booking.
> 
> Page and MJF are way more exciting than Riddle and Lee. Simply because they aren't disrupted by Vince's archaic platform of unnatural promos and buzzwords.



Yeah fans kind of know Vince booking style and how he uses his talent. Way too many guys have hit their ceiling on those shows. So even though a lot of guys are talented. It makes half of the shows roster feel unimportant. There's so many guys being wasted on those shows. 


Not only do they not make their top guys come off like big stars. They make half the roster feel like after thoughts. I think it's funny that Dynamite did 1 million viewers and only like 700 less viewers then Raw. With main event of Dustin Rhodes vs Brodie Lee. When 2 years ago Vince wouldn't even see that as match worthy of getting 2 minute on Raw.


When AEW can within a year pick up what WWE would see as their scraps. Along with taking guys from New Japan, Impact and Indies etc. Then can put on a tv show with feeling like near equal talent to Raw/Smackdown. Well I think that bolds well for AEW future and catching them. As long as WWE doesn't get top guys over as big stars and making next tier of guys feel so unimportant who all hit their ceiling in the company. Especially if one of AEW guys ends up breaking out into megastar.


----------



## Y2K23

Next week episode will be on the regular timeslot on Wednesday, no way Lakers/Rockets goes 7 games after tonight


----------



## zkorejo

Finally.. Well deserved!!! 

Matt Jackson and CD got the 50+ increase too.


----------



## reamstyles

Congrats aew, a win for the industry as a whole..


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Wow, I practically had guys wetting their pants waiting for my response. First of all, kudos to AEW, 1 million is a milestone and worth celebrating.

Second, to the people who assumed I'd be mad, why would I be? For like 6 months I've been spouting that AEW needs to feature punchier matches, quickly move from segment to segment, feature guys who look like wrestlers in prominent positions etc. This week they finally do that, not one match over 10 minutes, punchy segments, angle and story heavy, each match featured someone who looked like a wrestler (Except Angelico Vs OC) and they do 1 million plus. Kind of shows that I've been right for all these months and the people who have been telling me I'm wrong and have no idea are wrong.




Claro De Luna said:


> Damn they fucking did it! 1M baby! What you say now Chip? You doubted me when I said Reby would turn up on Dynamite. You fucked up. You doubted me when I said this episode would hit 1M. You fucked. So much for being an industry insider. You're just a joke.


This might be embarrassing for you but I don't remember you or ever saying that. I did feel that way though so I won't outright deny it.

Also, I never said I was an industry insider. I don't know anyone in any major promotion and have always maintained that.



A PG Attitude said:


> Just waiting for Chip/Mox/wood to find a way to turn this into a negative.


Another one I don't remember.


----------



## 304418

This is a massive win for AEW, considering that they have been trending upwards for weeks now.

If this number holds up for weeks with no more NXT competition around on Wednesdays, then what is the difference between what AEW gets and TNA got in its prime, if they both get/got 1 million viewers? Considering how Bischoff did not find the numbers AEW were getting impressive, and thought TNA drew more.

It just shows how wrestling, in the foreseeable future, cannot draw big numbers in a competitive war anymore. There are the few million that watch WWE, and the 1 million that watch a major non-WWE product. Basically, the same place wrestling has been since the mid-to-late '00s.


----------



## patpat

The quarters numbers are very interesting


----------



## Erik.

patpat said:


> The quarters numbers are very interesting


Really good numbers. 

Not only did they gain on the opener, they actually kept strength throughout what was a very promo heavy show. 

Wouldn't surprise me if the dip in hour two was due to basketball.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wow, I practically had guys wetting their pants waiting for my response. First of all, kudos to AEW, 1 million is a milestone and worth celebrating.
> 
> Second, to the people who assumed I'd be mad, why would I be? For like 6 months I've been spouting that AEW needs to feature punchier matches, quickly move from segment to segment, feature guys who look like wrestlers in prominent positions etc. This week they finally do that, not one match over 10 minutes, punchy segments, angle and story heavy, each match featured someone who looked like a wrestler (Except Angelico Vs OC) and they do 1 million plus. Kind of shows that I've been right for all these months and the people who have been telling me I'm wrong and have no idea are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This might be embarrassing for you but I don't remember you or ever saying that. I did feel that way though so I won't outright deny it.
> 
> Also, I never said I was an industry insider. I don't know anyone in any major promotion and have always maintained that.
> 
> 
> 
> Another one I don't remember.


You gave show 3 of out 10 !!!!


----------



## zaqw222222

Great numbers for AEW


----------



## thorn123

I just wanted viewership to stay high enough so the show doesn’t get cancelled, anything above that is gravy as far as I am concerned. Let’s hope it continues


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DaveRA said:


> I just wanted viewership to stay high enough so the show doesn’t get cancelled, anything above that is gravy as far as I am concerned. Let’s hope it continues


It’ll only get cancelled if it’s pulling below 500k consistently.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> You gave show 3 of out 10 !!!!


That’s embarrassing.


----------



## Erik.

optikk sucks said:


> That’s embarrassing.


You seem surprised.


----------



## patpat

Erik. said:


> Really good numbers.
> 
> Not only did they gain on the opener, they actually kept strength throughout what was a very promo heavy show.
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if the dip in hour two was due to basketball.


Every promo did very well and the matches too. It's the same as last week, they keep gaining viewers as the show goes. That's a very good sign


----------



## Erik.

patpat said:


> Every promo did very well and the matches too. It's the same as last week, they keep gaining viewers as the show goes. That's a very good sign


Yep - final quarter had the most fans. Great to see.


----------



## .christopher.

Erik. said:


> 709,000 off of Raw is the smallest gap that a North American wrestling companies show has had since WCW in 1999.
> 
> Continue to smash it AEW - you're on the right path.


As I said, WWE will sink to AEW numbers; not the other way around.

Unlike TNA who had to contend with WWE still having more sheep/drones watching, most are finally realising wrestling is dead which is good news for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> For somebody who was just being condescending about understanding stories I'm surprised at this take.
> 
> So at All Out we see Omega almost hit Page with a table, let Page fall flat on his face when he could've caught him, and give the Buck's an ultimatum to pick him or Hangman. But we're supposed to believe all that tension is gone now, riiiight.


my take on it, is that Kenny was just ‘cold’ in that interview

he’s like - ‘another day in the office, win some, lose some - now i’m gonna crush singles. Forget page’

so - i think @Erik. is right - there is no animosity until hangman tries to team again

its a hella interesting story


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> my take on it, is that Kenny was just ‘cold’ in that interview
> 
> he’s like - ‘another day in the office, win some, lose some - now i’m gonna crush singles. Forget page’
> 
> so - i think @Erik. is right - there is no animosity until hangman tries to team again
> 
> its a hella interesting story


He was cold because he still has animosity, but he's trying to play it off.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Where are the Q numbers?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> He was cold because he still has animosity, but he's trying to play it off.


true - agreed

hence why it makes no sense for him to go out and smash hangman with a table now on some random dynamite

BUT.... if he pushes him.... boy, look out


----------



## Prized Fighter

Quarter 1: 989K (498K) - Lucha Bros/JE tag match, Kingston promo

Quarter 2: 1.004 (496K) - Lance/Jake promo, Hardy promo, beginning of OC/Angelico

Quarter 3: 1.026 (487K) - End of OC/Angelico, Best Friends/PnP segment, Kip/Miro debut

Quarter 4: 1.017 (486K) - Page interview, most of Hager/Jericho vs Kiss/Janela

Quarter 5: 1.026 (523K) - End of tag, Jericho Promo, MJF/Wardlow, Mox Promo

Quarter 6: 989K (469K) - FTR tag celebration, Ricky Starks promo, beginning of Rose/Conti

Quarter 7: 973K (427K) - End of Rose/Conti, post match with Shida, Kenny Interview

Quarter 8: 1.066 (458K) - Brodie vs Dustin TNT title match

Review: That 5th quarter is really good. A massive total viewership and demo number. It also included 3 major stars doing promos. So we can all agree that Kiss/Janela are confirmed draws.


----------



## Prosper

That Quarter 5 drop off is interesting seeing as the FTR and Starks promos were two of the best segments all night. Wasnt too dramatic of a drop though. Good consistency all night doesn’t seem like anything drove away massive amounts of cable viewers.


----------



## RiverFenix

wrong thread.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Brodie Lee adding viewers. Awesome! He deserves it.


----------



## Ham and Egger

1 million viewers is awesome for them. I wish NXT would fuck off onto Tuesday so AEW can keep their momentum.


----------



## Rex Rasslin

After 11 months back to 1 million + viewers and the third highest rating ever in Dynamite's young history. I think you can call this a little success - well done 👍


----------



## patpat

Consistent throughout the show


----------



## AEWMoxley

Promo heavy show and it did a great number. Looking at the quarter hour breakdown, all of the promos did really well, except Kenny's, which was the lowest quarter of the night, unsurprisingly.

This is what I want to see more of, with guys like Moxley, MJF, and Jericho getting even more mic time.


----------



## Geeee

Seems to me like most people watched the whole show, which is good


----------



## Claro De Luna

Just before TNA left Spike their viewership went below a million. Now AEW have topped that so officially they are now more successful than TNA. Well going by some members' logic on here. True or false?


----------



## Strike Force

The obsession with comparing AEW to other promotions is really weird. When you people see someone buying a Pepsi, do you run up and scream at them about how you feel about Pepsi compared to Coke? Do you stand near the Burger King drive-thru, wailing about why they chose that over McDonald's? If not, why not?


----------



## Geeee

Ratings are a potential indicator of success but are not a success in and of themselves.

Obviously, we know what happened with TNA and Spike TV. The Fall of TNA had many facets that were not related to ratings.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Strike Force said:


> The obsession with comparing AEW to other promotions is really weird. When you people see someone buying a Pepsi, do you run up and scream at them about how you feel about Pepsi compared to Coke? Do you stand near the Burger King drive-thru, wailing about why they chose that over McDonald's? If not, why not?


Yes I do.


----------



## TD Stinger

.….Wasn't Impact doing like 1.5 million people per week at one time? Or at least around that?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

OC continues to draw


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TD Stinger said:


> .….Wasn't Impact doing like 1.5 million people per week at one time? Or at least around that?


afaik they only achieved once - and that was the Monday special

TNA's PPV buyrates were incredibly shoddy, though


----------



## I AM Glacier

This thread will get more views than TNA


----------



## Not Lying

Wow! Nice.

Harper/Dustin delivered in the main event. Could you have imagined Luke Harper and Goldust main eventing a show and having that many people invested? great job, happy for these guys.

OC/Miro and Y2J/Mox in the same Q delivered great Quarter numbers. 
Q4 was good and yeah Sonny/Janella didn't didn't turn viewers away like many experts predict lol. 

Small drops for Q6 and Q7, but I think historically these quarters drop by a bigger %, so still not bad. The show was smooth and flew by nicely, which helps retain viewers.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> Promo heavy show and it did a great number. Looking at the quarter hour breakdown, all of the promos did really well, except Kenny's, which was the lowest quarter of the night, unsurprisingly.
> 
> This is what I want to see more of, with guys like Moxley, MJF, and Jericho getting even more mic time.


But when Moxley’s quarter dropped, you fucking blamed it being quarter hour number 2 and only having 2 minutes.

Goddamn man. Where did Kenny hurt you?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> But when Moxley’s quarter dropped, you fucking blamed it being quarter hour number 2 and only having 2 minutes.
> 
> Goddamn man. Where did Kenny hurt you?


I don't know what any of that has to do with Kenny's promo being in the least watched quarter of the night. The numbers are what they are. I can't do anything about it.


----------



## bdon

AEWMoxley said:


> I don't know what any of that has to do with Kenny's promo being in the least watched quarter of the night. The numbers are what they are. I can't do anything about it.


Moxley had that same distinction, and you cried about goddamn quarter hour #2. Quarter 7 is HISTORICALLY the worst. If Moxley is such a goddamn draw, maybe they should leave him exclusively there to bolster the rest of the show?


----------



## AEWMoxley

bdon said:


> Moxley had that same distinction, and you cried about goddamn quarter hour #2. Quarter 7 is HISTORICALLY the worst. If Moxley is such a goddamn draw, maybe they should leave him exclusively there to bolster the rest of the show?


Moxley's drawing power is not in question here. We already know what he brings to the table. Try to focus.


----------



## Y2K23

Wrong thread


----------



## Klitschko

TNA would get over a million viewers a lot more often then AEW has. So one rating where AEW finally got to the 1 million mark this year doesn't really say much. Let them keep getting over the million mark consistently. Personally, I would love AEW to stay above the million mark and slowly get higher and higher, but they really need some big star that will help them reach that next step and get people watching.


----------



## Not Lying

AEWMoxley said:


> I don't know what any of that has to do with Kenny's promo being in the least watched quarter of the night. The numbers are what they are. I can't do anything about it.


Q7 is historically the lowest, with commercial breaks and previews, Omega's segment was 3min.
Moxley also had lost numbers when he was in Q7 early on in his feud with Cage.

I don't think it's fair to judge to blame him for it, and i'm not really a fan of his.


----------



## NapperX

Technically WCW only existed for 13 years....TNA/Impact has been around for 18....which means that Impact is more popular than WCW and AEW combined lol....see how stupid that sounds?


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q7 is historically the lowest, with commercial breaks and previews, Omega's segment was 3min.
> Moxley also had lost numbers when he was in Q7 early on in his feud with Cage.
> 
> I don't think it's fair to judge to blame him for it, and i'm not really a fan of his.


Q7 on Wednesday lost viewers from Q6, which already had lost a good amount of viewers from Q5, and it was also nearly 100K below Q8, which is something that is almost never seen. It underperformed, even when you take into account the historical data of that quarter.

Not that this is surprising. If you gave everyone before the episode a list of everyone who would be cutting a promo and you asked them which one would perform the worst in terms of viewership, I think everyone would have picked Kenny. This isn't a surprise.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEWMoxley said:


> Promo heavy show and it did a great number. Looking at the quarter hour breakdown, all of the promos did really well, except Kenny's, which was the lowest quarter of the night, unsurprisingly.
> 
> This is what I want to see more of, with guys like Moxley, MJF, and Jericho getting even more mic time.


I think Ricky Starks joins that group soon!!!


----------



## zkorejo

I dont think the comparison is fair at all. Wrestling as a whole has lost alot of viewers. 

When TNA was doing 1 M, wasnt WWE pulling in 3-4 M? AEW finally did 1 million when Raw is struggling to get at 2 million. 

In addition to that, TNA didnt do good PPV sales, wasnt selling out arenas, weren't on road each week, wasnt even live every week. TNA had a much smaller budget compared to AEW and it was a constant struggle for them. Not to mention, their management was shit and they made alot of mistakes. Fans gave them a chance for a long time but they were just not going to grow. Not with the management they had and certainly not with their budget.


----------



## Blade Runner

Funny how this week had less wrestling than usual and they did a good number. Should tell you a lot about the level of interest in pointless matches


----------



## Blade Runner

Less pointless matches on the show seems to = more viewership.

Backs up the idea that character development, surprises and interesting storytelling is the most important component of the show


----------



## RapShepard

I get it's a joke, but if you have to compare an AEW high point to a TNA/Impact low point, you're not exactly bigging up AEW lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

KYRA BATARA said:


> Less pointless matches on the show seems to = more viewership.
> 
> Backs up the idea that character development, surprises and interesting storytelling is the most important component of the show


Nah, wrestling matches are also important components of the show.

It’s a wrestling company after all. You can still deliver a fun show with solid wrestling, entertaining segments, compelling characters/talents, and good promos.

That main-event with Brodie Lee vs Dustin Rhodes for the TNT title was a really good match, and it was also one of the best highlights of the night. That wrestling match apparently performed well with the ratings too.

Edit:

For the record, a filler match can still be entertaining to watch if the wrestling itself is good.


----------



## rbl85

KYRA BATARA said:


> Funny how this week had less wrestling than usual and they did a good number. Should tell you a lot about the level of interest in pointless matches


Funny how some of the shows with the worst ratings were ones with a lot of promo.


----------



## Erik.

Yeah, pretty sure most promos actually lose viewers. 

However maybe that was the case when there were two wrestling shows competing and you had a few change the channel to find some action.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> Quarter 1: 989K (498K) - Lucha Bros/JE tag match, Kingston promo
> 
> Quarter 2: 1.004 (496K) - Lance/Jake promo, Hardy promo, beginning of OC/Angelico
> 
> Quarter 3: 1.026 (487K) - End of OC/Angelico, Best Friends/PnP segment, Kip/Miro debut
> 
> Quarter 4: 1.017 (486K) - Page interview, most of Hager/Jericho vs Kiss/Janela
> 
> Quarter 5: 1.026 (523K) - End of tag, Jericho Promo, MJF/Wardlow, Mox Promo
> 
> Quarter 6: 989K (469K) - FTR tag celebration, Ricky Starks promo, beginning of Rose/Conti
> 
> Quarter 7: 973K (427K) - End of Rose/Conti, post match with Shida, Kenny Interview
> 
> Quarter 8: 1.066 (458K) - Brodie vs Dustin TNT title match
> 
> Review: That 5th quarter is really good. A massive total viewership and demo number. It also included 3 major stars doing promos. So we can all agree that Kiss/Janela are confirmed draws.


OC with that big Draw quarter

FTR’s old school BS keeps losing eyes

da Dark OG kicking big Dust’s ass all over the show being the super draw

OC and Brodie with Silver (dark order) being the best gainers is making me so happy

oh - fucking look at that - Janela / Kiss also losing nobody

this board needs a reality check


----------



## Not Lying

It's not about wrestling vs promos, it's about featuring characters people care about and not overexposing them.
This show was going to do within the 950k-1.05m regardless.

What they did in this show was have multiple big stars within the same Quarter, like Mox/MJF/Y2J in Q5.
Or OC/Miro in Q3. The TNT title main event matches continue to see a bump in the ratings when they main event, this time without Cody one of the 3 biggest stars in the company, because DO are hot are now.

Not surprised to see them lose a bit of viewers in Q6-Q7, but it wasn't that significant. 60k drop on a 1.02M viewers is less than 7% drop, that's not a big deal when I've seen them lose 100k-150k in Q6-Q7 from 800k before. Plus, they had to follow Moxley.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC with that big Draw quarter
> 
> FTR’s old school BS keeps losing eyes
> 
> da Dark OG kicking big Dust’s ass all over the show being the super draw
> 
> OC and Brodie with Silver (dark order) being the best gainers is making me so happy
> 
> oh - fucking look at that - Janela / Kiss also losing nobody
> 
> this board needs a reality check


So, they should put the world heavyweight championship on Orange Cassidy then! Fuck Kenny Omega, MJF, or Hangman Adam Page. Orange Cassidy should get the push, right?

No one is saying Cassidy doesn’t have a place, but he should have a ceiling until he stops being a comedy goof.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC with that big Draw quarter
> 
> FTR’s old school BS keeps losing eyes
> 
> da Dark OG kicking big Dust’s ass all over the show being the super draw
> 
> OC and Brodie with Silver (dark order) being the best gainers is making me so happy
> 
> oh - fucking look at that - Janela / Kiss also losing nobody
> 
> this board needs a reality check


Wait...but I was told only the demo mattered. He lost viewers in the demo in both quarters he was on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> Wait...but I was told only the demo mattered. He lost viewers in the demo in both quarters he was on.


i.... didn’t look at the demo

edit> old people love OC

also> Kiss / Janela getting that sweet demo too

points still stand (half of them anyway)


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i.... didn’t look at the demo
> 
> edit> old people love OC
> 
> also> Kiss / Janela getting that sweet demo too
> 
> points still stand (half of them anyway)


I am sure people were there for Jelly and Kiss and not for their top star. Either way, I am just pointing out the inconsistency of people praising the number that fits their narrative (not saying you did it on purpose).


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You gave show 3 of out 10 !!!!


I did, I didn't like it. Doesn't mean the method of punchy matches, angle heavy show doesn't work with the million or so people who tuned in and stayed in.

Might be hard for you to believe, Pippen but my opinion on things isn't the be all and end all. I can dislike a show and also acknowledge that others might have enjoyed it.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC with that big Draw quarter
> 
> FTR’s old school BS keeps losing eyes
> 
> da Dark OG kicking big Dust’s ass all over the show being the super draw
> 
> OC and Brodie with Silver (dark order) being the best gainers is making me so happy
> 
> oh - fucking look at that - Janela / Kiss also losing nobody
> 
> this board needs a reality check


Janela/Kiss losing nobody you don't think might have come down to Jericho and Hager being involved? Put them in a match with two of The Dark Order underlings and the ratings would tank.


----------



## RiverFenix

PPV buyrate isn't terrible given they ran it on the basically closed Dynamite set. They save a lot of expenses when they don't have to travel and set up a stage and the like. That was one of the big disappoints for me regarding ALL OUT - they did dick all with the staging. DIdn't even bother to try and differentiate it from the Dynamite look. They did more with Fyterfest for crying out loud. 

100K buys at $50 is 5M, they get half so it's a $2.5M take with little more expense than running Dynamite each week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lheurch said:


> I am sure people were there for Jelly and Kiss and not for their top star. Either way, I am just pointing out the inconsistency of people praising the number that fits their narrative (not saying you did it on purpose).


no no, you’re right

i’m the biggest champion of demo > overall numbers


----------



## patpat

Oc isnt a main eventer, he can draw good but putting the world title on him would be a joke. And I dont even particularly hate the character


----------



## Vitamin R

Verbatim17 said:


> This is a massive win for AEW, considering that they have been trending upwards for weeks now.
> 
> If this number holds up for weeks with no more NXT competition around on Wednesdays, then what is the difference between what AEW gets and TNA got in its prime, if they both get/got 1 million viewers? Considering how Bischoff did not find the numbers AEW were getting impressive, and thought TNA drew more.
> 
> It just shows how wrestling, in the foreseeable future, cannot draw big numbers in a competitive war anymore. There are the few million that watch WWE, and the 1 million that watch a major non-WWE product. Basically, the same place wrestling has been since the mid-to-late '00s.


Prime TNA would get around 1.7-2 million on average (what WWE gets today). WWE was getting around 4.5-6.5 million viewers during the 2000s. Interest from the general public in wrestling since the 2000s hasn't been static. It's actually been shrinking.


----------



## 3venflow

Mankind/Rock 'This is Your Life' segment in September 1999 did a 8.4 rating - the highest ever. American pro wrestling is at its heart about strong characters, personalities and storylines. This seems to have been forgotten in the past decade-plus.

The late 80s/early 90s golden age was down to characters like Hogan, Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior and the Million Dollar Man. The Monday Night Wars were the New World Order - the hottest angle and reinvention of Hulk Hogan - against WWF Attitude, a group of hungry young guys doing edgy promos and storylines.

And it's one of the reasons the industry shrunk - because it's leader (WWE) went from being a testosterone-fueled joyride to a politically correct borefest. From larger than life characters like The Rock, Stone Cold, HBK and Kurt Angle to wrestlers who look and talk like the guy in the street.

Look at NXT, a product that caters to geeks with generic guys with generic names and generic looks who are meant to be the future of the WWE. 'Timothy Thatcher' and 'Keith Lee', it sounds like the roll call at an accountancy company.

So that promo heavy, storyline driven episode of Dynamite? What a surprise the rating was great for AEW! It was entertaining, had some colour and character _and_ decent wrestling to boot. That's the direction that made pro wrestling 'cool', with a strong emphasis on storylines, characters, the whole male soap opera thing.

And IMO, that's how AEW should proceed, with good wrestling, with long matches saved for situations that need it, not Joey Janela vs. Archer going 10 minutes when it should have been 5 tops. It can still feel 'sporty' while being sports-entertainment.

They now have a shit ton of good promos and some charismatic guys like Mox, Brodie, MJF, Starks, Sammy Guevara, Cody, Jericho and new boy Miro.


----------



## Pippen94

Vitamin R said:


> Prime TNA would get around 1.7-2 million on average (what WWE gets today). WWE was getting around 4.5-6.5 million viewers during the 2000s. Interest from the general public in wrestling since the 2000s hasn't been static. It's actually been shrinking.


How many streaming & DVR back then??


----------



## bdon

patpat said:


> Oc isnt a main eventer, he can draw good but putting the world title on him would be a joke. And I dont even particularly hate the character


Exactly my point, so I would rather not see him in such high profile feuds as with Jericho and getting such big segments going forward.


----------



## 304418

Vitamin R said:


> Prime TNA would get around 1.7-2 million on average (what WWE gets today). WWE was getting around 4.5-6.5 million viewers during the 2000s. Interest from the general public in wrestling since the 2000s hasn't been static. It's actually been shrinking.


AEW gets 900K -1M viewers, and gets 100K buys for PPVs, compared with prime TNA's 1.7-2M viewers and <80K PPV buys. And that can be largely attribute to AEW being better organized behind the scenes in management & marketing, and better funding too.

WWE's viewership has shrank considerably over the last decade and a half, even though it was just 2hr Raw, ECW, and Smackdown on Syfy on the air. So its WWE that has lost a majority of its viewers and general public interest. That's not the case for non-WWE wrestling as a whole; it has remained more or less stable in terms of viewership and that viewership has just shifted over from TNA to AEW. But WWE still draws a few million spread out over 3 hr Raw, NXT and Smackdown on FOX, plus whatever they get from the Network. WWE is just spread out too thin to get the viewership is used to get though.


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> Go away


Doesn't chip realize that this thread is for AEW fanboys only? 

How did Chip get on this site anyway? did he even show anyone his heels subscription?


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> TNA would get over a million viewers a lot more often then AEW has. So one rating where AEW finally got to the 1 million mark this year doesn't really say much. Let them keep getting over the million mark consistently. Personally, I would love AEW to stay above the million mark and slowly get higher and higher, but they really need some big star that will help them reach that next step and get people watching.


You know ratings across TV have halved since then?? 1 million is different now to back then


----------



## 304418

patpat said:


> Oc isnt a main eventer, he can draw good but putting the world title on him would be a joke. And I dont even particularly hate the character


AEW may has well put their money where their mouth is and let him contend for the world title and TNT title. Otherwise, why did Jericho put him over? It's not like it would have hurt OC if he lost, since being a slacker is his whole appeal anyways.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> Doesn't chip realize that this thread is for AEW fanboys only?
> 
> How did Chip get on this site anyway? did he even show anyone his heels subscription?


He shit on show live & then comes back next day after big ratings & says he knew it would do well. Guy is playing heel troll to fill some hole in his life


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> He shit on show live & then comes back next day after big ratings & says he knew it would do well. Guy is playing heel troll to fill some hole in his life


I actually said the polar opposite. Some guy said "you said the show wouldn't rate well" and I said I didn't recall saying that but admitted I did feel that way. Show wasn't good in my opinion and I didn't think this would be the one to hit the million.

Butttt, I was proven right with the booking method of punchy segments, guys who look like wrestlers, emphasis on angles and promos proving successful for them. Of course you of all people are mad about this because for months you have been telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about and now you yourself have also been proven wrong (For the 27th time)


----------



## PavelGaborik

Freezer Geezer said:


> They actually make posts and back up what they're saying generally. You just spam the same shit over and over. Pretty sure I've seen you post that same thing multiple times, in the exact same laboured and worn out style.


Agreed on Chip and Cult, The Wood is undeniably just as bad as their little cheerleader Ozell though.


----------



## Pippen94

Early estimate for AEW All Out PPV buys


The first details on the buy rate for the latest pay-per-view event presented by AEW, Double or Nothing, are in. Dave Meltzer reported in the latest edition of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter that the early numbers indicate the show “will do numbers at the level of the February 29, 2020...




www.google.com


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I actually said the polar opposite. Some guy said "you said the show wouldn't rate well" and I said I didn't recall saying that but admitted I did feel that way. Show wasn't good in my opinion and I didn't think this would be the one to hit the million.
> 
> Butttt, I was proven right with the booking method of punchy segments, guys who look like wrestlers, emphasis on angles and promos proving successful for them. Of course you of all people are mad about this because for months you have been telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about and now you yourself have also been proven wrong (For the 27th time)


Where did you say show would do that ratings??


----------



## reamstyles

Its almost wrestling for what 4 times a week, so the core wrestling fa s watch it so you just need to invite more, aew has its own brand, so tge target is to get new audience..smackdown is lame and safest one so its up to aew and raw to shake things up and make it interesting..


----------



## Blade Runner

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, wrestling matches are also important components of the show.
> 
> It’s a wrestling company after all. You can still deliver a fun show with solid wrestling, entertaining segments, compelling characters/talents, and good promos.
> 
> That main-event with Brodie Lee vs Dustin Rhodes for the TNT title was a really good match, and it was also one of the best highlights of the night. That wrestling match apparently performed well with the ratings too.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, a filler match can still be entertaining to watch if the wrestling itself is good.


Yes but that's not what AEW usually gives us. Most weeks it's practically wall-to-wall wrestling and bad comedy, with very little of anything else.

Matches that MEAN something is one thing, but most weeks they don't mean shit. You get the established guys having random 20+ minute matches with lowcarders, and everyone with a working brain knows who is going over. Some new guys get wins and don't even appear on tv the next week to keep the momentum going. A bunch of filler multi tag matches that no one other than a very small niche of people care to see every week


----------



## Mister Sinister

Some weeks you need less wrestling and more segments, and some weeks you can have numerous short matches with one long main event, and another week you can do a segment-heavy first hour with a 70 minute royal starting at the 50 minute mark. Variety is good. They need to get away from every episode being a string of random matches that all run 15 minutes long.


----------



## Klitschko

Personally I'm a strong believer in less wrestling and more promos/segments. You can put on a strong wrestling match on tv and it won't be remembered by anyone in a few weeks, but you put on a strong segment and people will be talking about it for months. Thats just my opinion though.


----------



## imthegame19

Klitschko said:


> TNA would get over a million viewers a lot more often then AEW has. So one rating where AEW finally got to the 1 million mark this year doesn't really say much. Let them keep getting over the million mark consistently. Personally, I would love AEW to stay above the million mark and slowly get higher and higher, but they really need some big star that will help them reach that next step and get people watching.


Tv was much different then it is today 5 and 10 years ago. Remember Raw had double and triple it's viewers from 5 and 10 years compared to now. While NBA playoffs was doing double it's viewers five years ago. So you can't compare viewership compare to now and then. That's like saying I use to spend 50 cents for a cheeseburger.


Based on how TNA Impact ratings where ranked 10 years ago. Would be like 600-700 viewers today with demo probably in .25 to .28 range. They were 10-20 range ranked show back then and probably would be like 500 viewers and .20 in 18 to 49 five years ago. Since they were ranked in 20 to 25 range for top shows. They were never ranked as highly as Dynamite has for TNT.


----------



## DaSlacker

For anybody interested, TNA's average viewership was something like:

2005-2006 (Saturday at 11pm) = 900,000 viewers
2006 (Thursday at 11pm) = 1 million viewers (*younger demo had been declining, so Russo brought in)
2007 (Thursday at 9pm) = 1.3 million viewers (*increased to 2 hours)
2008 = 1.5 million viewers
2009 = 1.6 million viewers
2010 (moved back and forth) = 1.4 million viewers 
2011 = 1.5 million viewers (rebranded as Impact Wrestling)
2012 (8pm) = 1.3 million viewers
2013 = 1.1 million viewers
2014 = 1 million viewers (moved to Wednesdays)


----------



## Intimidator3

I don’t keep up with ratings and number too much, i had no idea they hit a million viewers. And keep them through the show. That impressive and I’d say they’re getting thing really on track now.


----------



## NathanMayberry

How utterly convenient. 

Meltzer and wrestling "journalism" at its finest.. Every single AEW PPV will do numbers at the level or 100,000 to 110,000 buys, around 100,000 or have an estimated 100,000 or have between 100,000 to 105,000 buys until the end of time and no one will ever question it or ask for proof.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> View attachment 90950
> 
> How utterly convenient.
> 
> Meltzer and wrestling "journalism" at its finest.. Every single AEW PPV will do numbers at the level or 100,000 to 110,000 buys, around 100,000 or have an estimated 100,000 or have between 100,000 to 105,000 buys until the end of time and no one will ever question it or ask for proof.


If you're gonna ask for proof here then ask for proof in all media/entertainment. It's not like we have proof that Avatar is actually the highest-grossing movie of all time for example. We also don't have proof of the numbers that Vince says he's pulling in on the WWE Network, but we all believe him because it's all we have to go by.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> If you're gonna ask for proof here then ask for proof in all media/entertainment. It's not like we have proof that Avatar is actually the highest-grossing movie of all time for example. We also don't have proof of the numbers that Vince says he's pulling in on the WWE Network, but we all believe him because it's all we have to go by.


Avatar got dethroned by Thanos


----------



## Prosper

Lheurch said:


> Avatar got dethroned by Thanos


Haha yeah I forgot about that Avtar has been on top for so long lol


----------



## rexmundi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304625890211459072Sonny's match with Cody drew well too. Some of the haters recoil at seeing Sonny wrestle but he has some really cool looking moves and people like him. Getting 1.2M and 580K+ in the demo for the closing minutes is a strong AF rating for AEW.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304601467022725120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304547722863824897


----------



## bdon

rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304625890211459072Sonny's match with Cody drew well too. Some of the haters recoil at seeing Sonny wrestle but he has some really cool looking moves and people like him. Getting 1.2M and 580K+ in the demo for the closing minutes is a strong AF rating for AEW.


Since ratings are all that matters, why don’t they put the title on Orange Cassidy and have him start a feud with Sonny Kiss.

This is what you, and others like you, are essentially saying. That due to the ratings they get, they should be in high profile segments. Well fuck the high profile segments and let’s go for broke with this company. Put the title on them and give them a true push if they’re not comedy characters and deserve all this air time.

What do you think of that idea? Do you think that is a good plan of attack? If not, why shouldn’t those two be headlining?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Freshly Squeezed Champion? Shit. I'm all for that! But that's the fan in me speaking lmao.

Also. HELL YEAH! @ AEW killing it again with the ratings. Staying strong in these times. We love to see it!..Well some of us do.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Since ratings are all that matters, why don’t they put the title on Orange Cassidy and have him start a feud with Sonny Kiss.
> 
> This is what you, and others like you, are essentially saying. That due to the ratings they get, they should be in high profile segments. Well fuck the high profile segments and let’s go for broke with this company. Put the title on them and give them a true push if they’re not comedy characters and deserve all this air time.
> 
> What do you think of that idea? Do you think that is a good plan of attack? If not, why shouldn’t those two be headlining?


FFS. Who is saying that?
All I see is reasonable people saying that Sonny, Janella, OC are NOT anti-draws and can actually draw pretty well sometimes

But ALL haters do is complain about the mere EXISTENCE of those guys and Marko, they don't even want them on TV and pretend them being on TV is detrimental, when it is clearly not by now.
The haters are now shifting their argument from "they should be fired because they turn away viewers" to "oh you want them as world champions".
Nobody is fucking saying that.


----------



## Aedubya

A mill is nice
Need to get a mill+ consistently to make a real statement


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> FFS. Who is saying that?
> All I see is reasonable people saying that Sonny, Janella, OC are NOT anti-draws and can actually draw pretty well sometimes
> 
> But ALL haters do is complain about the mere EXISTENCE of those guys and Marko, they don't even want them on TV and pretend them being on TV is detrimental, when it is clearly not by now.
> The haters are now shifting their argument from "they should be fired because they turn away viewers" to "oh you want them as world champions".
> Nobody is fucking saying that.


So...if you're not okay with a guy like Orange being World Champion why are you okay with him beating AEW's biggest star?

I don't think it's too farfetched to assume the majority of Cassidy's supporters would be in favour of him getting a title run.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304625890211459072Sonny's match with Cody drew well too. Some of the haters recoil at seeing Sonny wrestle but he has some really cool looking moves and people like him. Getting 1.2M and 580K+ in the demo for the closing minutes is a strong AF rating for AEW.


Hager is super underrated man, I know people have taken issue with his political beliefs, but I think he is really good as Jericho's heavy, and outside of the abomination of a match with Mox, he has been a pretty consistent ratings guy for them.


----------



## 304418

DaSlacker said:


> For anybody interested, TNA's average viewership was something like:
> 
> 2005-2006 (Saturday at 11pm) = 900,000 viewers
> 2006 (Thursday at 11pm) = 1 million viewers (*younger demo had been declining, so Russo brought in)
> 2007 (Thursday at 9pm) = 1.3 million viewers (*increased to 2 hours)
> 2008 = 1.5 million viewers
> 2009 = 1.6 million viewers
> 2010 (moved back and forth) = 1.4 million viewers
> 2011 = 1.5 million viewers (rebranded as Impact Wrestling)
> 2012 (8pm) = 1.3 million viewers
> 2013 = 1.1 million viewers
> 2014 = 1 million viewers (moved to Wednesdays)


So, if TNA was averaging 1.6M viewers in 2009 and had been steadily growing for years with their mix of ex-Monday Night Warriors and cutting edge talents from the indy circuit, why did they bring in Hogan again? Since ratings plateaued and then started to go down once he came in, especially as soon as they rebranded to Impact Wrestling. And they got shifted around a lot when it came to their timeslot as well.



rexmundi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304625890211459072Sonny's match with Cody drew well too. Some of the haters recoil at seeing Sonny wrestle but he has some really cool looking moves and people like him. Getting 1.2M and 580K+ in the demo for the closing minutes is a strong AF rating for AEW.


So, if ratings are so strong under Sonny Kiss/OC match, or a Moxley promo, then why not put them in the Q7 to help boost the weakest part of Dynamite? I don’t see how stronger ratings across the board are a bad thing.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Verbatim17 said:


> So, if TNA was averaging 1.6M viewers in 2009 and had been steadily growing for years with their mix of ex-Monday Night Warriors and cutting edge talents from the indy circuit, why did they bring in Hogan again? Since ratings plateaued and then started to go down once he came in, especially as soon as they rebranded to Impact Wrestling. And they got shifted around a lot when it came to their timeslot as well.


The impact comparisons are weird because there are a billion things you need to factor in. First of all, in 2009, Wrestling wasn't a hot comoddity that people wanted to drop money on, even with 1.6 million viewers, you couldn't command big TV deals because it was a different TV landscape. Also, a ton of people stopped watching cable TV year over year regularly since 2009.

I can see why they brought in Hogan, they thought that would elevate them to WWE's level, it was a very WWE-esque move in that it was short term thinking while affecting the long term trajectory of the company.

TNA's history is super interesting, and hopefully every promoter will look at TNA in the future and learn something from it's demise.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> Since ratings are all that matters, why don’t they put the title on Orange Cassidy and have him start a feud with Sonny Kiss.
> 
> This is what you, and others like you, are essentially saying. That due to the ratings they get, they should be in high profile segments. Well fuck the high profile segments and let’s go for broke with this company. Put the title on them and give them a true push if they’re not comedy characters and deserve all this air time.
> 
> What do you think of that idea? Do you think that is a good plan of attack? If not, why shouldn’t those two be headlining?


I’ve never heard such a ridiculous take and conclusion like this.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> So...if you're not okay with a guy like Orange being World Champion why are you okay with him beating AEW's biggest star?
> 
> I don't think it's too farfetched to assume the majority of Cassidy's supporters would be in favour of him getting a title run.


Jericho is 50 years old and OC is one of their most popular acts that got even more popular. Mission accomplished. OC is also on another level than Janella or Sonny. K? 
Depending on how they build the story, OC can be TNT champion, he won't be world champion anytime soon.


----------



## ProjectGargano

A little bit of OFF-TOPIC but MLW is moving to Wednesdays on FITE TV. Are they hoping to die? Streaming against NXT and AEW? Thursdays would be so better for them...


----------



## Prized Fighter

Chip Chipperson said:


> So...if you're not okay with a guy like Orange being World Champion why are you okay with him beating AEW's biggest star?
> 
> I don't think it's too farfetched to assume the majority of Cassidy's supporters would be in favour of him getting a title run.


Your trying to make the case that Jericho was hurt by the losses to OC, but the ratings say otherwise. So now instead of having one guy who can help with ratings, you have two. Why is that a bad thing? A guy like Jericho can draw no matter what because wrestling fans eat up nostalgia and Jericho can grab a mic and sell a feud better than almost anyone.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prized Fighter said:


> Your trying to make the case that Jericho was hurt by the losses to OC, but the ratings say otherwise. So now instead of having one guy who can help with ratings, you have two. Why is that a bad thing? A guy like Jericho can draw no matter what because wrestling fans eat up nostalgia and Jericho can grab a mic and sell a feud better than almost anyone.


OC beat the companies top star, he is now a main event star so why are people balking him at possibly being in the World Title picture?


----------



## 304418

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The impact comparisons are weird because there are a billion things you need to factor in. First of all, in 2009, Wrestling wasn't a hot comoddity that people wanted to drop money on, even with 1.6 million viewers, you couldn't command big TV deals because it was a different TV landscape. Also, a ton of people stopped watching cable TV year over year regularly since 2009.
> 
> I can see why they brought in Hogan, they thought that would elevate them to WWE's level, it was a very WWE-esque move in that it was short term thinking while affecting the long term trajectory of the company.
> 
> TNA's history is super interesting, and hopefully every promoter will look at TNA in the future and learn something from it's demise.


It’s not really weird at all. TNA was the last successful wrestling show. Understanding why it never amounted to much despite following the majority of the WCW playbook and basically being WCW successor is important to learn about. Especially since they occupied the majority of the time, financial support, and viewership spent that could have been given to another company like ROH at the time.

AEW, in many ways, is just correcting the mistakes, missteps, and shortcomings made by TNA. It’s probably easier for them to surpass what TNA did and get a regular viewership of 1.7M – 2.5M, than try and get the viewership of what WCW was getting in their final days (3M+ viewers). They are already crushing TNA in buyrates, paid attendance, presentation, and better marketing & management. Which promotion is booked better is 50/50 at the moment.

And it is worth asking if AEW would draw more on Thursdays. Either though Dynamite, Dark or the second show.



ProjectGargano said:


> A little bit of OFF-TOPIC but MLW is moving to Wednesdays on FITE TV. Are they hoping to die? Streaming against NXT and AEW? Thursdays would be so better for them...


They are trying to recreate the Wednesday Night Wars of 2015, when NXT, LU, Impact and ROH were on the same night. They just want to be added to the discussion by adding themselves to the weekly completion between NXT and AEW, even though NXT is possibly moving to Tuesdays soon.


----------



## DaSlacker

Verbatim17 said:


> So, if TNA was averaging 1.6M viewers in 2009 and had been steadily growing for years with their mix of ex-Monday Night Warriors and cutting edge talents from the indy circuit, why did they bring in Hogan again? Since ratings plateaued and then started to go down once he came in, especially as soon as they rebranded to Impact Wrestling. And they got shifted around a lot when it came to their timeslot as well.
> 
> 
> 
> So, if ratings are so strong under Sonny Kiss/OC match, or a Moxley promo, then why not put them in the Q7 to help boost the weakest part of Dynamite? I don’t see how stronger ratings across the board are a bad thing.


They were doing better numbers earlier in 2009 but then the Main Event Mafia fizzled out and they declined by 200,000 viewers. They signed a new TV deal in the summer and had a bit more money to play with. Then newly PG WWE renewed with USA for what would be worth something like 90 million dollars within 5 years. Spike by comparison was conservative with TNA and wrestling - Viacom famously refused to pay more than 30 million for 5 hours of weekly WWE in 2005. And Raw was averaging 3 times TNA's best numbers back then.

Basically Dixie saw big money and got ambitious. Thinking they could recreate the boost Hogan had given WCW in 1994. Not just viewership but image and media exposure.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Chip Chipperson said:


> OC beat the companies top star, he is now a main event star so why are people balking him at possibly being in the World Title picture?


They're not balking. Your the one making Jericho out to be the main event gate keeper. Jericho is AEW's most recognizable name because he has been around a long time. He may even be their biggest star by name value, but he is almost 50 and declining. That doesn't mean that beating him is this doorway to the main event. That is like saying that a boxer should get a Heavyweight title shot because they beat Mike Tyson or Floyd Mayweather. Sure those guys are big names and have a great history, but they are also aging. I am fine with Jericho putting over guys at this stage in his career. His salary is justified because of the merch he sells and how he can elevate younger talent. He covers his number whether he is in a main event program or not. 

To answer your OC in the main event question. I would personally be fine with him having a title match, but I wouldn't put the belt on him currently. Granted, there are only 6 guys in the whole company that come close to Mox. That includes Cody, Omega, Miro, Archer, MJF and Brodie Lee. I think guys like Hangman and Cage are on that next plateau, but could get there over time.


----------



## bdon

optikk sucks said:


> I’ve never heard such a ridiculous take and conclusion like this.


And yet, Orange Cassidy has more wins over Jericho than anyone, even AEW World Heavyweight champion Jon Moxley.

Orange Cassidy, Sonny Kiss and the like can exist in the goddamn undercard. Just like we all said. Then he faced Pac, and you people said, “It isn’t like he’s feuding with Jericho.”

Then he was feuding with Jericho.

So, fuck it. Let’s continue the push. Why can’t he be world champion if he can not only feud with Jericho but also beat him TWICE? Page couldn’t do it in singles or tag matches. Omega couldn’t do it in singles or tag action. Cody couldn’t do it. Scorpio Sky nor Jungle Boy could do it.

You people keep throwing Orange Cassidy’s ratings against the wall, pointing to him being the night’s biggest draw on many nights, so why shouldn’t we go ahead and make him the top star and strap the belt to him? Is it preposterous and too goddamn stupid to try and imagine a world where he could even stand a chance against Moxley?

But I thought it was just a silly, fake wrestling show, and we take it too seriously..?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

bdon said:


> And yet, Orange Cassidy has more wins over Jericho than anyone, even AEW World Heavyweight champion Jon Moxley.
> 
> Orange Cassidy, Sonny Kiss and the like can exist in the goddamn undercard. Just like we all said. Then he faced Pac, and you people said, “It isn’t like he’s feuding with Jericho.”
> 
> Then he was feuding with Jericho.
> 
> So, fuck it. Let’s continue the push. Why can’t he be world champion if he can not only feud with Jericho but also beat him TWICE? Page couldn’t do it in singles or tag matches. Omega couldn’t do it in singles or tag action. Cody couldn’t do it. Scorpio Sky nor Jungle Boy could do it.
> 
> You people keep throwing Orange Cassidy’s ratings against the wall, pointing to him being the night’s biggest draw on many nights, so why shouldn’t we go ahead and make him the top star and strap the belt to him? Is it preposterous and too goddamn stupid to try and imagine a world where he could even stand a chance against Moxley?
> 
> But I thought it was just a silly, fake wrestling show, and we take it too seriously..?


Not Oc. I’m talking about kiss janella etc. It’s very clear OC is more than just the jobber people like to think of him as.


----------



## 304418

DaSlacker said:


> They were doing better numbers earlier in 2009 but then the Main Event Mafia fizzled out and they declined by 200,000 viewers. They signed a new TV deal in the summer and had a bit more money to play with. Then newly PG WWE renewed with USA for what would be worth something like 90 million dollars within 5 years. Spike by comparison was conservative with TNA and wrestling - Viacom famously refused to pay more than 30 million for 5 hours of weekly WWE in 2005. And Raw was averaging 3 times TNA's best numbers back then.
> 
> Basically Dixie saw big money and got ambitious. Thinking they could recreate the boost Hogan had given WCW in 1994. Not just viewership but image and media exposure.


Which is kind of crazy, since even during the peak of the Monday Night Wars Hogan was considered old. And he didn’t really help to stabilize declining numbers in WWE in the middle of the Ruthless Aggression Era.

The same Viacom that was stingy towards WWE was also stingy towards TNA, and then when TNA failed to grow becuase not enough was being invested into them, Viacom wanted ownership stake in TNA. That’s kind of outrageous when thought about. While it was an improvement to paying to be aired on FOX Sports, TNA was still being undercut and shortchanged by a broadcasting partner. It’s like TNA was set up to fail.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> FFS. Who is saying that?
> *All I see is reasonable people saying that Sonny, Janella, OC are NOT anti-draws and can actually draw pretty well sometimes*
> 
> But ALL haters do is complain about the mere EXISTENCE of those guys and Marko, they don't even want them on TV and pretend them being on TV is detrimental, when it is clearly not by now.
> The haters are now shifting their argument from "they should be fired because they turn away viewers" to "oh you want them as world champions".
> Nobody is fucking saying that.


there. That’s it

spot-on


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> A little bit of OFF-TOPIC but MLW is moving to Wednesdays on FITE TV. Are they hoping to die? Streaming against NXT and AEW? Thursdays would be so better for them...


woof.... bad move


----------



## Not Lying

RelivingTheShadow said:


> The impact comparisons are weird because there are a billion things you need to factor in. First of all, in 2009, Wrestling wasn't a hot comoddity that people wanted to drop money on, even with 1.6 million viewers, you couldn't command big TV deals because it was a different TV landscape. Also, a ton of people stopped watching cable TV year over year regularly since 2009.
> 
> *I can see why they brought in Hogan, they thought that would elevate them to WWE's level, it was a very WWE-esque move in that it was short term thinking while affecting the long term trajectory of the company.
> 
> TNA's history is super interesting*, and hopefully every promoter will look at TNA in the future and learn something from it's demise.


I have to one day dig deeper (see some podcasts or books) and see what happened to TNA after 2010. 
I was so disgusted I still remember how I was a huge TNA mark as a kid, as much as I love AEW now, I don't think I loved it near as much as TNA 05-06. Then in 2010, after Hogan and the rest came it, it just became so shitty. 

What was even worse was how TNA's 3 last PPVs of 2009 were are very highly regarded, with Nigel Mcguiness becoming a star vs Angle. Hogan & Co just ruined everything, came in, I noticed a lot of the stars I liked getting fired misused (Kong), i think i stopped watching regularly within 3 months and then was completely out of anything happening in TNA by 2012.

I wonder how Hogan's career would be looked at if people would get their head out of their ass and instead of just judging someone based on his highs in his career, they should look at how much of an anti-draw he was and pushed people away when he was on top because he overstayed his welcome.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there. That’s it
> 
> spot-on


But EVERYONE said he had a place on the card. @Cult03 and I both spoke about how we either didn’t mind him or even liked him for what he was in the lower to midcard scene. The MAIN point of contention has been him being in high profile feuds with Jericho and getting two wins.

If his biggest supporters can’t justify him in a program vs Moxley, Omega, Cody, Page, Brian Cage, etc, then what was the point of the Jericho rub? Wouldn’t that rub have been better used on Darby Allin, Absolute Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy? Hell, even Kip Sabian could have used that rub to be elevated onto the level of Those other young lions!!!

They chose to waste it on the 36 year old comedy (good comedy might I add...if in the low to midcard) act that can’t work a program against your top competitors.

And now you’re trying to justify Sonny Kiss and Janella in a feud with Jericho, your biggest star. I think they’re cringe acts, no denying, but I don’t believe there is NO place for those two. There‘s a place for damn near anyone on a wrestling card, but you can’t waste the special attraction of Jericho on these guys.

You have all talked Cassidy up and bragged about him having the highest rated segments, going as far as to literally mock the product as being “Just fake wrestling”, so if that is the case, why SHOULDN’T they just go ahead and have him work a program with MJF, Omega, or Moxley next? Maybe they can put him in a match against a newly signed $10m, 6 match a year Brock Lesnar. OC isn’t a comedy act according to you guys. He’s a Daniel fucking Bryan “Yes Movement” away from reaching casual audiences.

Why shouldn’t we give him the biggest and best feud? What is the hesitation on your part?


----------



## Dizzie

When people praise sonny and oc being a part of a quarter that draws well the common denominator just so happens to be that they were both sharing them quarter's with aew's most well known act chris jericho.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Definition of Technician said:


> What was even worse was how TNA's 3 last PPVs of 2009 were are very highly regarded, with Nigel Mcguiness becoming a star vs Angle. Hogan & Co just ruined everything, came in, I noticed a lot of the stars I liked getting fired misused (Kong), i think i stopped watching regularly within 3 months and then was completely out of anything happening in TNA by 2012.


Yup, I remember late 09 TNA PPVs to be solid, I think it was Turning Point, Final Resolution and one other show, AJ Styles was the world champion and I believe he was working with Cristopher Daniels, and then Nigel just came in and was feuding with Angle. Solid shit.

January 4th came and it all went to hell, AJ Styles turned heel for no fucking reason with a Ric Flair cosplay gimmick, RVD beat AJ for no reason on TV for the title with no build, and it got subsequently worse after that. Just a shit show.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> Why shouldn’t we give him the biggest and best feud? What is the hesitation on your part?


Is anyone really suggesting OC shouldn't be in big programs? I don't think most see that, it's just the weird fixation on people grouping him with Janela and Sonny Kiss(who at this point, have been midcard job guys).

I want to see OC Vs. Moxley, OC Vs. Omega, OC Vs. PAC again. I don't think he should be world champion right now, but absolutely, at some point he should go for it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> I have to one day dig deeper (see some podcasts or books) and see what happened to TNA after 2010.
> I was so disgusted I still remember how I was a huge TNA mark as a kid, as much as I love AEW now, I don't think I loved it near as much as TNA 05-06. Then in 2010, after Hogan and the rest came it, it just became so shitty.
> 
> What was even worse was how TNA's 3 last PPVs of 2009 were are very highly regarded, with Nigel Mcguiness becoming a star vs Angle. Hogan & Co just ruined everything, came in, I noticed a lot of the stars I liked getting fired misused (Kong), i think i stopped watching regularly within 3 months and then was completely out of anything happening in TNA by 2012.
> 
> I wonder how Hogan's career would be looked at if people would get their head out of their ass and instead of just judging someone based on his highs in his career, they should look at how much of an anti-draw he was and pushed people away when he was on top because he overstayed his welcome.


Lol.

Okay, so, first of all TNA in 2010 put AEW in 2020 to shame. I went back and rewatched all of January, February and March earlier this year and they actually knew how to format a TV show, get guys over, write compelling stories and they actually only really pulled out the "5 star classics" on special occasions as opposed to AEW who do it weekly.

How is Hogan an "anti-draw"? (That isn't a term regularly used within the industry by the way) Do you know during his TNA run he took them to heights they'd never reached before? Do you know that he popped up in front of millions of people on American Idol when he was under TNA contract? Do you know that he was the only TNA employee to regularly be on big time shows such as Howard Stern? Do you know that even in his sixties he was still the most recognisable face in wrestling that people would tune in to see week to week?

You don't have to like Hulk Hogan but to pretend that he was turning people away from TNA is an absolute lie. Everything went to shit once he and Eric left actually.



bdon said:


> If his biggest supporters can’t justify him in a program vs Moxley, Omega, Cody, Page, Brian Cage, etc, then what was the point of the Jericho rub? Wouldn’t that rub have been better used on Darby Allin, Absolute Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy?


Bingo.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> I don't think he should be world champion right now, but absolutely, at some point he should go for it.


Why not now? You guys have been saying for weeks that he's this huge ratings draw and that the children/casuals love him. 

Put the belt on him, send him to Jimmy Kimmel live or the Howard Stern show to promote AEW. If he's as popular as you all say those shows would be happy to have him.


----------



## El Hammerstone

RelivingTheShadow said:


> I don't think he should be world champion right now, but absolutely, at some point he should go for it.


The guy isn't getting any younger; they can't afford to wait much longer.


----------



## La Parka

Strike while the iron is hot.

OC FOR WORLD CHAMPION


----------



## DammitChrist

Imagine being this fucking upset ranting because Orange Cassidy didn’t tank the ratings at all, and being pissed that his segment apparently held up really well in terms of viewership  

It’s pretty obvious that the likes of Jon Moxley (current holder), Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, and Cody Rhodes (after dethroning the previous name) will surely dominate the world title scene for the next couple of years (with Chris Jericho still being a prominent world title contender). 

Hell, the likes of Pac, Darby Allin, Eddie Kingston, Brodie Lee, Miro, Lance Archer. Sammy Guevara, and possibly Ricky Starks are also likely to be involved in the main-event scene while possibly becoming future world champions at some point over the next 2-5 years; which pretty much rules out Orange Cassidy’s chances of realistically becoming the AEW World Champion.

He’ll definitely challenge for the world title at some point soon, but he’ll definitely lose that match after giving an impressive performance. 

Cassidy getting the better of Jericho twice in their matches was pretty much meant to establish his status as a valuable (upper)-midcarder who’s really over with the fans.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Lol.
> 
> Okay, so, first of all TNA in 2010 put AEW in 2020 to shame. I went back and rewatched all of January, February and March earlier this year and they actually knew how to format a TV show, get guys over, write compelling stories and they actually only really pulled out the "5 star classics" on special occasions as opposed to AEW who do it weekly.
> 
> How is Hogan an "anti-draw"? (That isn't a term regularly used within the industry by the way) Do you know during his TNA run he took them to heights they'd never reached before? Do you know that he popped up in front of millions of people on American Idol when he was under TNA contract? Do you know that he was the only TNA employee to regularly be on big time shows such as Howard Stern? Do you know that even in his sixties he was still the most recognisable face in wrestling that people would tune in to see week to week?
> 
> You don't have to like Hulk Hogan but to pretend that he was turning people away from TNA is an absolute lie. Everything went to shit once he and Eric left actually.


Well then the term will be a revelation. When people who are draw for a certain time, get overexposed and people start to tune away for them, it should be taken into consideration.
Hogan and friends in 2010-2011 ruined the hardcore TNA fans that helped them grow. Cena gets called out a lot of turning a lot of viewers away despite him making a lot of short-term fans (kids) who made WWE lots of money. They focused a lot of older guys and did stupid Russo like face/heel turns that didn't make sense.

No wonder I stopped caring for TNA after Cornette left in 2009 and stopped filtering many of shit.

I also just checked the ratings quickly, looks like they went from 1.5 from Hogan's debut episode to 0.9-1.0 within 6 month lmao. Even getting a few 0.5-0.6 during these 6 months, this screams a lot like the shit you haters call out AEW for (1.4m to the 800k-900k now). You just said the first 3 months were good booking yet the last episode of March got 0.6.

You clearly have no understanding of long-term vision in anything you do because it's clear you are impatient on a lot of AEW storylines and you think having a short-term bump in the rating at the cost money, that won't be justified in the long run, is "worth it". History is not on the side of insulting your hardcore fans and doing thing to spite them. Not for WCW, TNA or WWE.
TNA fucked a lot of their hardcore fan-base over during his TNA run, and so they left, and Hogan's departure hurt them more because then they were left with nothing.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Chip Chipperson said:


> Lol.
> 
> Okay, so, first of all TNA in 2010 put AEW in 2020 to shame. I went back and rewatched all of January, February and March earlier this year and they actually knew how to format a TV show, get guys over, write compelling stories and they actually only really pulled out the "5 star classics" on special occasions as opposed to AEW who do it weekly.
> 
> How is Hogan an "anti-draw"? (That isn't a term regularly used within the industry by the way) Do you know during his TNA run he took them to heights they'd never reached before? Do you know that he popped up in front of millions of people on American Idol when he was under TNA contract? Do you know that he was the only TNA employee to regularly be on big time shows such as Howard Stern? Do you know that even in his sixties he was still the most recognisable face in wrestling that people would tune in to see week to week?
> 
> You don't have to like Hulk Hogan but to pretend that he was turning people away from TNA is an absolute lie. Everything went to shit once he and Eric left actually.
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not now? You guys have been saying for weeks that he's this huge ratings draw and that the children/casuals love him.
> 
> Put the belt on him, send him to Jimmy Kimmel live or the Howard Stern show to promote AEW. If he's as popular as you all say those shows would be happy to have him.


TNA was trash in 2010. And I can say this as I actually watched the product back then religiously. Their buy rates barely reached 30k back then. So no, they didn’t go a good job at persuading people to buy their PPVs


----------



## DaSlacker

Verbatim17 said:


> Which is kind of crazy, since even during the peak of the Monday Night Wars Hogan was considered old. And he didn’t really help to stabilize declining numbers in WWE in the middle of the Ruthless Aggression Era.
> 
> The same Viacom that was stingy towards WWE was also stingy towards TNA, and then when TNA failed to grow becuase not enough was being invested into them, Viacom wanted ownership stake in TNA. That’s kind of outrageous when thought about. While it was an improvement to paying to be aired on FOX Sports, TNA was still being undercut and shortchanged by a broadcasting partner. It’s like TNA was set up to fail.


It was an expensive move that in the end achieved very little. I remember people calling them out for it but Carter was a mark in over her head . She needed relevance: Cena or Brock or DX or Batista but none of those would ever jump ship.

The other issue was their inability to create stars. They had Styles, Joe and Abyss. However, none have the star power, promo skills or charisma of the Monday Night War guys, who had boosted the ratings.So it was always one step forward and two steps back.

Fundamentally, like you say, they had a stingy partner.


AEW are in a stronger position when you think about it:

1) WWE Raw is haemorrhaging viewers.
2) They have 45 million per year to work with. Similar to WWE in 2005.
3) They are ahead of the TV rights negotiations curve i.e WWE's run out first. TNA's expired before WWE's. That gives them more leverage to throw a grenade into TV land.
4) The veterans (Hardy, Dustin) don't really overshadow the likes of MJF and Page. Jericho could but he's clowning it. Others like Moxley, Miro, Cody, Pac are in their prime. The Elite fleshes out a inclusive wrestling identity. As do Cage, Archer, LAX, Lucha Bros.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> TNA was trash in 2010. And I can say this as I actually watched the product back then religiously. Their buy rates barely reached 30k back then. So no, they didn’t go a good job at persuading people to buy their PPVs


TNA 2010 is when I realized it was going down the shitter. I had so much faith for the early years and then in 2008/09 it felt like they were "this" close to becoming a real organization but then it fell apart in 2010.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> TNA 2010 is when I realized it was going down the shitter. I had so much faith for the early years and then in 2008/09 it felt like they were "this" close to becoming a real organization but then it fell apart in 2010.


People always think of the past with rose-tinted glasses. Unfortunately I remember 2010 like it was a few months ago. Goddamn it was terrible.

Samoa Joe being kidnapped then coming back with a face tattoo and noticeably fatter. we don’t actually find out why he was kidnapped.
AJ Styles becoming a Ric Flair body double.
ECW 2.0
“They”
Jersey Shore tribute Act
The Band

thats just what I can remember - what I can’t I blocked out


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> People always think of the past with rose-tinted glasses. Unfortunately I remember 2010 like it was a few months ago. Goddamn it was terrible.
> 
> Samoa Joe being kidnapped then coming back with a face tattoo and noticeably fatter. we don’t actually find out why he was kidnapped.
> AJ Styles becoming a Ric Flair body double.
> ECW 2.0
> “They”
> Jersey Shore tribute Act
> The Band
> 
> thats just what I can remember - what I can’t I blocked out


Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair were feuding over a WWE Hall of Fame ring
Abyss walking around with a club stabbed into his back
Rob Terry taking very hard chair shots to the head because WWE had banned them
Orlando Jordan beating Samoa Joe clean
A x divisioncage match so badly designed that wrestlers couldn't escape

...Don't have nightmares!


----------



## omaroo

TNA in its prime could have been a serious force but stupid dumbass dixie had no clue how to run a company and from what they should have been they are now a glorified indie company. Sad to see.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I


DaSlacker said:


> Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair were feuding over a WWE Hall of Fame ring
> Abyss walking around with a club stabbed into his back
> Rob Terry taking very hard chair shots to the head because WWE had banned them
> Orlando Jordan beating Samoa Joe clean
> A x divisioncage match so badly designed that wrestlers couldn't escape
> 
> ...Don't have nightmares!


 Jesus Christ


----------



## Klitschko

optikk sucks said:


> TNA was trash in 2010. And I can say this as I actually watched the product back then religiously. Their buy rates barely reached 30k back then. So no, they didn’t go a good job at persuading people to buy their PPVs


I think right after Hogan came they had a ppv Genesis with only 1 match announced. The rest was just filler. I think it was AJ vs Samoa Joe or Angle. 

2010 is literally when i stopped watching and never came back.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> People always think of the past with rose-tinted glasses. Unfortunately I remember 2010 like it was a few months ago. Goddamn it was terrible.
> 
> Samoa Joe being kidnapped then coming back with a face tattoo and noticeably fatter. we don’t actually find out why he was kidnapped.
> AJ Styles becoming a Ric Flair body double.
> ECW 2.0
> “They”
> Jersey Shore tribute Act
> The Band
> 
> thats just what I can remember - what I can’t I blocked out


Yes, man, it was that bad. 2009 is the last year Christopher Daniels really mattered. Bubba the Love Sponge. Nasty Boys. Val Venis.

AND LOL @ AJ Styles becoming Reid Flair lmao, that was worse than what was her name, Claire? LMAO


----------



## DaSlacker

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes, man, it was that bad. 2009 is the last year Christopher Daniels really mattered. Bubba the Love Sponge. Nasty Boys. Val Venis.
> 
> AND LOL @ AJ Styles becoming Reid Flair lmao, that was worse than what was her name, Claire? LMAO


I need to see some documentary talking about this timeline. Like who was coked up so much they thought AJ Styles - a small town dedicated family man and known Christian - could believably play a brash, limousine riding, womanizing, playboy.

Like pushing Sonny Kiss in a MJF type role Lol. Or CM Punk in a hard drinking Hangman Page role.


----------



## One Shed

Wow reading through some of this stuff that apparently happened in TNA after I gave up on it. If anything I am shocked it did not die in a fire pretty much immediately.


----------



## One Shed

DaSlacker said:


> I need to see some documentary talking about this timeline. Like who was coked up so much they thought AJ Styles - a small town dedicated family man and known Christian - could believably play a brash, limousine riding, womanizing, playboy.
> 
> Like pushing Sonny Kiss in a MJF type role Lol. Or CM Punk in a hard drinking Hangman Page role.


Or OC as a badass.


----------



## Not Lying

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yes, man, it was that bad. 2009 is the last year Christopher Daniels really mattered.* Bubba the Love Sponge. Nasty Boys. Val Venis.*
> 
> AND LOL @ AJ Styles becoming Reid Flair lmao, that was worse than what was her name, Claire? LMAO


Nasty Boys! oh god, Val Venis beating Daniels like nothing.



DaSlacker said:


> Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair were feuding over a WWE Hall of Fame ring
> Abyss walking around with a club stabbed into his back
> Rob Terry taking very hard chair shots to the head because WWE had banned them
> Orlando Jordan beating Samoa Joe clean
> A x divisioncage match so badly designed that wrestlers couldn't escape
> 
> ...Don't have nightmares!


JFC.

The delusional Hulkamaniacs will deny it, but the guy's signing is what killed TNA. It was the catalyst to all the crap that came after. They never needed them they should have continued their slow and steady rise.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

NapperX said:


> Technically WCW only existed for 13 years....TNA/Impact has been around for 18....which means that Impact is more popular than WCW and AEW combined lol....see how stupid that sounds?




wcw was Jim Crockett Promotions Founded in 1931
Jim Crockett Promotions become WcW 
Like TNA become IMPACT

Ted Turner Buy
Jim Crockett Promotions And he changed the name 
Like what Anthem did to TNA


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Speaking of tna in 2010


TNA IN 2010 >>> AEW 2020

TNA ROSTER 2010 >>> AEW ROSTER 2020

TNA RATINGS 2010 >>> AEW RATINGS 2020

TNA STORYLINE IN 2010 >>> AEW STORYLINE IN 2020

Immortals >>> inner circle the worst stable of all time


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

lol 
This
jobber 
better than
hogan in 2010 ??


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

tna x division and tna tag teams in 2010 >>> aew in 2020










This poster is alone >>> aew 2020 roster


----------



## bdon

TNA is dead. Accept it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ThenWo/WCW said:


> tna x division and tna tag teams in 2010 >>> aew in 2020
> 
> View attachment 90972
> 
> 
> This poster is alone >>> aew 2020 roster


i think we found ‘the Draw’s’ old alt account


----------



## Y2K23

Lol someone is really arguing about TNA 2010 as something really good.

2020 is no joke 🤣


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well then the term will be a revelation. When people who are draw for a certain time, get overexposed and people start to tune away for them, it should be taken into consideration.
> Hogan and friends in 2010-2011 ruined the hardcore TNA fans that helped them grow. Cena gets called out a lot of turning a lot of viewers away despite him making a lot of short-term fans (kids) who made WWE lots of money. They focused a lot of older guys and did stupid Russo like face/heel turns that didn't make sense.
> 
> No wonder I stopped caring for TNA after Cornette left in 2009 and stopped filtering many of shit.
> 
> I also just checked the ratings quickly, looks like they went from 1.5 from Hogan's debut episode to 0.9-1.0 within 6 month lmao. Even getting a few 0.5-0.6 during these 6 months, this screams a lot like the shit you haters call out AEW for (1.4m to the 800k-900k now). You just said the first 3 months were good booking yet the last episode of March got 0.6.
> 
> You clearly have no understanding of long-term vision in anything you do because it's clear you are impatient on a lot of AEW storylines and you think having a short-term bump in the rating at the cost money, that won't be justified in the long run, is "worth it". History is not on the side of insulting your hardcore fans and doing thing to spite them. Not for WCW, TNA or WWE.
> TNA fucked a lot of their hardcore fan-base over during his TNA run, and so they left, and Hogan's departure hurt them more because then they were left with nothing.


Ratings and viewership aren't the samething. They got a 0.6 rating with 1.2 million viewers. 

On January 4th, the first night on Monday, the live edition of *Impact*! scored a 👉*1.5* cable *rating* with 2.2 million viewers👈, breaking an all-time record. A report was going around that *TNA* had considered to replace pay per views with live specials on Spike TV, as PPV buy rates have not been so kind to the company.










Breaking News: TNA Draws Nearly Two Million Viewers on October 7th Live Impact!


It has just been reported by PWTorch that the October 7th live edition of TNA Impact! was watched by nearly two million viewers. The live edition originally scored a 1.33 cable tv rating with 1...




bleacherreport.com


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> Ratings and viewership aren't the samething. They got a 0.6 rating with 1.2 million viewers.
> 
> On January 4th, the first night on Monday, the live edition of *Impact*! scored a 👉*1.5* cable *rating* with 2.2 million viewers👈, breaking an all-time record. A report was going around that *TNA* had considered to replace pay per views with live specials on Spike TV, as PPV buy rates have not been so kind to the company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking News: TNA Draws Nearly Two Million Viewers on October 7th Live Impact!
> 
> 
> It has just been reported by PWTorch that the October 7th live edition of TNA Impact! was watched by nearly two million viewers. The live edition originally scored a 1.33 cable tv rating with 1...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bleacherreport.com


I know, that's why I didn't put an m after 1.5.
My point still stands, they lost 1/3rd+ of initial viewership within a few months.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DaSlacker said:


> I need to see some documentary talking about this timeline. Like who was coked up so much they thought AJ Styles - a small town dedicated family man and known Christian - could believably play a brash, limousine riding, womanizing, playboy.
> 
> Like pushing Sonny Kiss in a MJF type role Lol. Or CM Punk in a hard drinking Hangman Page role.












All this reminiscing about the abhorrent horror that was TNA 2010 got me having flashbacks


----------



## Not Lying

ThenWo/WCW said:


> View attachment 90971
> 
> 
> lol
> This
> jobber
> better than
> hogan in 2010 ??


This jobber made his employer MUCH more money than what he cost them. Compared to cash raping money burning shithead Hogan.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> This jobber made his employer MUCH more money than what he cost them. Compared to cash raping money burning shithead Hogan.


Just out of curiosity, how much money has OC made anyone?


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how much money has OC made anyone?



what a smart ass question!

I don't know how much money he's made them, but I know he was a nobody before last year and now he's one of the most popular wrestler on the roster, feuded with their most recognisable star, sells tons of merch and gets #2 highest youtube views behind Mox. He makes them money.
OC must trigger a lot of the geeks who doomed AEW when he was signed


----------



## CJ

AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part III


Part I Part II




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------

