# RAW TV Ratings Thread



## llj

First post.

WWE ratings suck.


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## RelivingTheShadow

This will be the thread of the sub-2 million era.


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## rexmundi

This thread should be subtitled The Misadventures of Mr. Hour 3. :Cocky


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## raymond1985

rexmundi said:


> This thread should be subtitled The Misadventures of Mr. Hour 3. :Cocky


Heyman is apparently very high on him. 

WWE's ratings are thus in for a very cold winter.


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## ClintDagger

I love this thread.


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## Monterossa

Set Rollins is burning down RAW and WWE.


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## LPPrince

Why blame Rollins? No one is helping WWE get ratings. WWE itself is the problem, Rollins and co. are just along for the ride.

The Rock could ditch Hollywood to come back full time for wrestling and it wouldn't do shit for ratings because of how WWE fucks shit up now.


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## raymond1985

LPPrince said:


> Why blame Rollins? No one is helping WWE get ratings. WWE itself is the problem, Rollins and co. are just along for the ride.
> 
> The Rock could ditch Hollywood to come back full time for wrestling and it wouldn't do shit for ratings because of how WWE fucks shit up now.


No one denies that WWE's booking sucks. 

But it doesn't help that their current FOTC is not fit for the role. The idea that The Rock and Seth Rollins are equal in value is insane. 

Of course The Rock could take the material that Rollins has been given and produce better performances/ratings. He's a vastly superior performer to Rollins.


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## patpat

raymond1985 said:


> rexmundi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread should be subtitled The Misadventures of Mr. Hour 3. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/1sCL677.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Cocky" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Heyman is apparently very high on him.
> 
> WWE's ratings are thus in for a very cold winter.
Click to expand...

 the wwe is high on him, heyman is just following the line of the company because he is a company man. He is been in the cook since February. I think everyone has a tendency to romanticize those guys and make them the ultimate rebels. No they said they would never write for Vince again, they are doing it and that's the fox money effect. 
The company is high on Rollins,heyman will call him the next stone cold/rock 
Simple 


LPPrince said:


> Why blame Rollins? No one is helping WWE get ratings. WWE itself is the problem, Rollins and co. are just along for the ride.
> 
> The Rock could ditch Hollywood to come back full time for wrestling and it wouldn't do shit for ratings because of how WWE fucks shit up now.


 I agree with you but he didnt help his cause with his teenage rambling on twitter. When you put yourself like that as the absolute company man/shill you will take responsibility for the crap numbers, even more if your are the main event champion


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## Donnie

:Cocky THE BESTEST IN THE WORLD. THE DRAWEST DRAW IN ALL THE WORLD 

Don't forget the golden rule, folks. If your favourite is the most "over" guy on the show, and the FOTC they aren't in any way responsible for the bad ratings and awful attendance. That shit is ALL Brock and Roman's fault. Maybe :asuka and :rusev are to blame as well. 

Either way it isn't :Rollins


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## LPPrince

raymond1985 said:


> The idea that The Rock and Seth Rollins are equal in value is insane.


And yet they are, at least when it comes to pulling WWE out of the hole it's in. Because WWE is the big umbrella over everyone that gets involved with them, and WWE stops anything from working.

You're right, the idea IS insane. And that's the world we live in right now. Insane.

WWE's issues aren't solved by suggesting that the person with the big belt is the wrong guy. The issues are solved by working on the underlying problems that are company wide. Work on those and the problems will sort themselves out.

For example, and this isn't to single him out, but lets take a look at Ricochet.

Why should I be impressed by him? He can do a bunch of crazy acrobatic stuff? Like 99% of WWE's current roster? Where's the character? Where's the storytelling? Where's the narrative?

That goes for Rollins. That goes for Aleister Black. That goes for Kofi Kingston. That goes for The Usos. That goes for everyone on screen, or nearly. And for those who aren't flying around everywhere, what are they doing? Where's their character, their narrative, their storytelling?

The Rock could come back and he'd be under the same garbage that these guys are in. Another example, Brock Lesnar. He should be above all these guys in value like The Rock would be and yet he does jack shit for saving the company. If he was on every week, that wouldn't change. Taker? HHH? Same boat.

Everyone is shit while connected to WWE because WWE in itself is shit.

I get blaming Rollins for being a company dude who's kissing ass because he's at the top, but lets not act like replacing him with another talent is gonna do anything.


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## raymond1985

LPPrince said:


> WWE's issues aren't solved by suggesting that the person with the big belt is the wrong guy. The issues are solved by working on the underlying problems that are company wide. Work on those and the problems will sort themselves out.


There is no working things out with Rollins. He's bland, unlikable, a terrible promo, and nothing special in the ring. He'll always drag the company down if he's pushed as the FOTC. More so than many other performers, who while may not improve viewership, are more liable to retain viewers. 

Of course, WWE has many other issues. Some of which you stated. They need to be fixed as well. But the demotion of Rollins is one of the key issues that WWE should address. They also need to find a suitable replacement.


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## Ace

Meltzer was talking about how attendance falls are usually followed by big ratings drop on WOL. 

If that's the case, holy shit is it going to get real ugly soon.


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## Kratosx23

LPPrince said:


> Why blame Rollins? No one is helping WWE get ratings. WWE itself is the problem, Rollins and co. are just along for the ride.
> 
> The Rock could ditch Hollywood to come back full time for wrestling and it wouldn't do shit for ratings because of how WWE fucks shit up now.


LOL. Come on. Of course Rock would bump ratings. Even after the initial thrill wore off, do you really think Rock of all people is gonna let Vince run his promos for him? Give me a break. They don't even give Goldberg a script and Goldberg isn't 1 10'th of the level The Rock is at, star power or mic skills wise. 

Why blame Rollins? Because he's the focus of the shows. Does he get FULL blame? No. You have to give blame to Vince, mostly, but Rollins gets blame, Corbin gets blame, Becky gets blame, Lacey gets blame, Kofi gets blame, Shane gets blame. Everybody who has a prominent role on television gets SOME portion of the blame for this. It's a group effort, and the group sucks. They need to push a new group, as well as fix their creative process. Even if they fixed their creative process, it won't do anything with this group on top because this group don't give off a big time star feel. Look at how Joe comes across, he's been jobbing for his entire run and he still feels like a star when he walks down the ramp and a guy that nobody wants to fuck with, because he's got an aura, something 98% of the roster is missing. If they gave good faith effort pushes to guys like that (not a one month program where he loses to Kofi), the ship would start to turn around.


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## LPPrince

Tyrion Lannister said:


> LOL. Come on. Of course Rock would bump ratings. Even after the initial thrill wore off, do you really think Rock of all people is gonna let Vince run his promos for him? Give me a break. They don't even give Goldberg a script and Goldberg isn't 1 10'th of the level The Rock is at, star power or mic skills wise.
> 
> Why blame Rollins? Because he's the focus of the shows. Does he get FULL blame? No. You have to give blame to Vince, mostly, but Rollins gets blame, Corbin gets blame, Becky gets blame, Lacey gets blame, Kofi gets blame, Shane gets blame. Everybody who has a prominent role on television gets SOME portion of the blame for this. It's a group effort, and the group sucks. They need to push a new group, as well as fix their creative process. Even if they fixed their creative process, it won't do anything with this group on top because this group don't give off a big time star feel. Look at how Joe comes across, he's been jobbing for his entire run and he still feels like a star when he walks down the ramp and a guy that nobody wants to fuck with, because he's got an aura, something 98% of the roster is missing. If they gave good faith effort pushes to guys like that (not a one month program where he loses to Kofi), the ship would start to turn around.


Sounds to me like the issue isn't the team but what management is doing to/with the team.

Though to be honest, social media isn't helping. At all. Case in point, Rollins.


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## Chrome

Ace said:


> Meltzer was talking about how attendance falls are usually followed by big ratings drop on WOL.
> 
> *If that's the case, holy shit is it going to get real ugly soon.*


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

In terms of what's coming (NFL and AEW), this may end up being the most entertaining and interesting ratings thread this forum has had in forever. It's going to be a ride for sure.

Also, can we stop with the blindness here? I have said that not one single individual other than Vince deserve full blame for the current decay this company finds itself in. Having said that, I have also been clear to state that some stars are better suited for top roles in the company than others. You can say it as much as you want but the Rock would stop the bleeding at a huge rate and at the very least stabilize it more so than a Seff, a Becky, or a Kofi ever could. That's just the reality of the situation. You have the wrong group of top players here. The experiment failed. It didn't work. They were great to pander to your dwindling fanbase at Wrestlemania but going forward for this long has saved anything but shown continuous record low ratings and attendance, the Network has stagnated, the PPVs aren't drawing as powerful anymore, and the star power is almost non-existent. 

Trust me, Baron Corbin and Lacey Evans isn't the answer, either. They're just as bad, if not worse, than the current crop of World champions. The fact is, it's time to try something else. Get stars the crowd can really gravitate to at a consistent rate and build off of it while not cutting their legs from underneath. You had it for a while with Becky Lynch but now it's clear her "jets have been cooled". 

Meltzer said it this week, and someone repeated it here, but the record low attendances this company has had this week in *three* back to back to back events (Stomping Grounds, RAW, Smackdown) is alarming and this could very well be where they draw under 2 million viewers. They are already at peak TNA numbers. 

This *is* the New Generation 2.0 era, with far more money and far less star power. It cannot be denied anymore. The scary thing is, the worse may be to come.


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## Lenny Leonard

There is no official way to oust Vince is there? He has majority control of the shares doesn't he?


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## Chrome

Lenny Leonard said:


> There is no official way to oust Vince is there? He has majority control of the shares doesn't he?


I think if they can prove he is mentally unfit or something, they can. They should consider looking into that.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Lenny Leonard said:


> There is no official way to oust Vince is there? He has majority control of the shares doesn't he?


He has majority shares, thus having the most controlling power. It's his call if he wants to step down, which isn't going to happen obviously. HHH/Steph are going to have to wait for him to die to see them in power and Vince is stubborn enough to live for another 20 years so by the time he is gone, Hunter and Steph are in their 70s and definitely wouldn't be fit to run the company.


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## llj




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## SPCDRI

Lenny Leonard said:


> There is no official way to oust Vince is there? He has majority control of the shares doesn't he?


Stocks are usually split up into voting and privileges stocks and non-voting stocks. Vince McMahon controls around 80 percent of the voting stock alone, not counting how much Linda, Stephanie, Triple H and Shane control, and their friends. So its absolutely impossible to do the easy way out and impeach and remove. Its impossible unless he decides to vote against himself.


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## The XL 2

raymond1985 said:


> Heyman is apparently very high on him.
> 
> WWE's ratings are thus in for a very cold winter.


He probably sees Rollins as the next RVD, but Rollins lacks the charisma and the cool as fuck factor that RVD had.


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## Fearless Viper

Should have name it into "Monday Night Rollins Ratings Thread". :rollins


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## The Masked Avenger

Just in here for the good shit. :vince5


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## NondescriptWWEfan

the only way i'm watching a full raw is if they put the important wrestling & promos with the big stars in the first 2 hours then make the 3rd hour a big moment of bliss episode.


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## henrymark

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> the only way i'm watching a full raw is if they put the important wrestling & promos with the big stars in the first 2 hours then make the 3rd hour a big moment of bliss episode.


Only way I'm watching is Alexa and Renee have a live sex show


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## Lenny Leonard

Any pics of the attendance or lack there off


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## SPCDRI

Lenny Leonard said:


> Any pics of the attendance or lack there off


Its Dallas. WWE never books the appropriate-sized venue so TARP never gets to take a day off, but I imagine the attendance was pretty good. 

Smackdown is where Tarp usually goes over the hardest. He's the ultimate wildcard, but he's a Smackdown Man at the end of the day.


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## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.468M
H2- 2.676M
H3- 2.345M
3H- 2.496M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 8.43% / + 0.208M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 12.37% / - 0.331M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 4.98% / - 0.123M )
7/1/19 Vs 6/24/19 ( + 9.67% / + 0.220M )

Demo (7/1/19 Vs 6/24/19):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.750D
H2- 0.820D Vs 0.740D
H3- 0.780D Vs 0.700D
3H- 0.787D Vs 0.730D

Note: RAW is 3rd, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 4th, 3rd & 6th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (7/1/19 Vs 7/2/18):
H1- 2.468M Vs 2.641M
H2- 2.676M Vs 2.822M
H3- 2.345M Vs 2.658M
3H- 2.496M Vs 2.707M ( - 7.79% / - 0.211M )

Demo (7/1/19 Vs 7/2/18):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.850D
H2- 0.820D Vs 0.900D
H3- 0.780D Vs 0.900D
3H- 0.787D Vs 0.883D

Note: RAW this week last year was 5th, 3rd & 2nd by hourly demo & 5th, 2nd & 4th by hourly viewership.*


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## Piper's Pit

Good numbers for WWE. Wonder what caused the slight upturn ??


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## Mordecay

Got to think that the Strowman/Lashley stuff generated some buzz that it really seems like Heyman is in charge and that's why hour two got that big jump in viewers


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## ClintDagger

The Lashley / Stroman thing worked. I bet the Seth / Becky / Mike / Maria stuff turned people off though. And clearly no one cares about AJ / Rico.


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## nWo4Lyfe420

Lacey continues to draw the highest rated segments :bjpenn


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## The XL 2

I'd expect the bump is because of the news of Heyman and Bischoffs return.


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## SayWhatAgain!

Heyman, hot start with Lashley and Strowman & hyping The Undertaker for hour 2 are the reason for the upturn imo.

Big hosses like Lashley and Strowman clobbering eachother will always draw more than the little gymnasts, whether the IWC wanna admit it or not.

Not bad given recent standards.


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## ClintDagger

The XL 2 said:


> I'd expect the bump is because of the news of Heyman and Bischoffs return.


I think if that were the case I’d have expected a higher H1 rating. That H1 doesn’t seem that far off from other recent H1s. The difference is instead of slipping to 2.3 or 2.2 million in H2 they actually went up by a few hundred thousand. That tells me the buzz around the opening segment worked in their favor. They just didn’t do a good job of giving those people that checked in a reason to stay through H3. AJ v Rico and the Seth & Becky love story ain’t gonna get the job done.


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## patpat

Yeah I think with the Heyman announcement it was kinda predictable.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT

I'd figure the Undertaker return is what popped them this week after Taker came out of nowhere last week. Taker still holds interest from fans, even if he has overstayed his welcome. Probably the interest of a Heyman-booked RAW was there, too. In terms of the ratings they were getting, this was good but long term, this will amount to nothing if they can not consistently keep the rating afloat.


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## SPCDRI

They're still down from last year, but at least it isn't a total dive. And before people pooh-pooh the 2.3 million viewers for hour 3, hour 3 is a total death hour now with some hours this year hitting 2 million flat, I think one was even below 2 million or damn close to it. 2.3 million is nothing to sneeze at.


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## raymond1985

Drawing 2.3 million viewers in the 3rd hour is good for the standard of the time. Rollins' 3rd hour segments with Bryan, Styles, Zayn, etc have struggled to stay above 2 million in recent months. 

WWE should push Lynch and Rollins into the background. And feature the Lashley/Strowman, the Club, and Undertaker more. That approach clearly worked this week.


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## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> The Lashley / Stroman thing worked. I bet the Seth / Becky / Mike / Maria stuff turned people off though. And clearly no one cares about AJ / Rico.


 That's the highest third hour in a long time and is a slight drop from the first hr. AJ-Ricochet was also announced late in the show. Idk how you got that no one cares, when they did that number along with held strong last week. The second hr increase was probably due to Taker. I'm surprised it drew that well.


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## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> That's the highest third hour in a long time and is a slight drop from the first hr. AJ-Ricochet was also announced late in the show. Idk how you got that no one cares, when they did that number along with held strong last week.


I’m speaking colloquially of course. To me it’s about retention. They usually drop 200k-300k viewers from H2 to H3 anyways. So the fact that they still dropped that much tells me that their win last night wasn’t H1 or H3, but it’s the fact that they did something in H1 to actually cause a big bump from H1 to H2. They still need to do a better of job of teasing something in the right way to curb that H3 drop.

And when was AJ / Rico being teased? Not until H3? I thought it started in H2 when that bigger audience was tuned in.


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## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> I’m speaking colloquially of course. To me it’s about retention. They usually drop 200k-300k viewers from H2 to H3 anyways. So the fact that they still dropped that much tells me that their win last night wasn’t H1 or H3, but it’s the fact that they did something in H1 to actually cause a big bump from H1 to H2. They still need to do a better of job of teasing something in the right way to curb that H3 drop.
> 
> And when was AJ / Rico being teased? Not until H3? I thought it started in H2 when that bigger audience was tuned in.


 Yeah and they retained well last week... Meltzer even said that the main event matches had retained well (Rollins-Bryan and Ricochet-AJ). They did the rematch this week because it retained well last week. Idk when it was teased/announced, think it was in the second or third hr. 

But that large audience (probably casuals) only tuned in for Taker as he was apparently teased from the start of the show and apparently stayed on TV for longer. I'm actually surprised Taker drew that well. Only thing that explains the big second hr.


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## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Yeah and they retained well last week... Meltzer even said that the main event matches had retained well (Rollins-Bryan and Ricochet-AJ). They did the rematch this week because it retained well last week.


Yeah and that’s basically my point. It’s a rematch (a very recent one) and therefore perhaps people didn’t care to see it again for whatever reason. Obviously it was to set up an angle so either they didn’t do a good job of communicating that or people knew it was to set up an angle and that just didn’t interest them.

And I’m sure we all agree that even if giving away PPV worthy first time matchups is a way to retain viewers, it’s probably not the best answer.


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## rexmundi

Taker tease was the draw. Hour 3 dropped 331,000 viewers from Hour 2. No surprise considering how piss poor the Becky's bitch and Maria's bitch segment was. :Cocky


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## RelivingTheShadow

That third hour rating is REALLY good. This weeks hour 3 is almost as high as last weeks hour 1, and this week you had Undertaker being advertised so the 2nd hour is going to be inflated a bit.


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## deathvalleydriver2

Piper's Pit said:


> Good numbers for WWE. Wonder what caused the slight upturn ??


Undertaker


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## Dr. Jones

WINNING said:


> I'd figure the Undertaker return is what popped them this week after Taker came out of nowhere last week. Taker still holds interest from fans, even if he has overstayed his welcome. Probably the interest of a Heyman-booked RAW was there, too. In terms of the ratings they were getting, this was good but long term, this will amount to nothing if they can not consistently keep the rating afloat.


Taker in his full getup still looks exactly the same as he did in 2007. The intrigue in seeing the Undertaker live is still a factor. It's only when he gets in the ring to wrestle that the magic wears off. Hulk Hogan was supremely past his prime in 2006, but he was still the selling point for me to go to the last Raw I ever attended. I don't believe Hogan ever came back to Cleveland, so I got to see him for the last time in my hometown.

It's like seeing The Rolling Stones, Metallica, Fleetwood Mac, Bruce Springsteen, Paul McCartney, etc... People will still pay to see their favorite acts from when they were younger


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## xio8ups

2.4 for raw lolololoololol


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## RainmakerV2

Lacey and Corbin in the highest hour cause duh.


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## Fearless Viper

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Heyman, hot start with Lashley and Strowman & hyping The Undertaker for hour 2 are the reason for the upturn imo.
> 
> Big hosses like Lashley and Strowman clobbering eachother will always draw more than the little gymnasts, whether the IWC wanna admit it or not.
> 
> Not bad given recent standards.


Kudos!


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## Tk Adeyemi

I was looking at the ratings of the top tv shows and all their ratings suck especially shows such as empire or Atlanta. A lot of these popular shows are doing sub 1m. I can’t hate on wwe’s ratings anymore due to the way television viewership is declining. The fact that wwe programming are the top rated shows on cable television tells a lot. With all that said, wwe needs to do a better job with the shows.


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## Tk Adeyemi

2.4 is fantastic in today’s television climate. Dude wake up this is not 99 or 2001 nobody watches cable. Most top tv shows draw 500k viewers. Also raw and smackdown are the top rated shows on tv.


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## chronoxiong

Nice rating this week. That is an improvement for sure. The bar has been set so low so an improvement like that is big news. Have to like the 2nd hour for sure. Encouraging.


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## deadcool

Momentary spike because of all the fake hype about Heyman being part of the creative. It will settle back down in the next few weeks once the novelty wears off.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Still an 8% decline year over year. Not good numbers at all - especially not good that this is an improvement and looks good compared to recent weeks.

Undertaker may have brought an uptick, but as we’ve seen in the past with part-time wrestlers who start showing up weekly, even their impact eventually gets down to nothing.


----------



## Freelancer

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Still an 8% decline year over year. Not good numbers at all - especially not good that this is an improvement and looks good compared to recent weeks.
> 
> Undertaker may have brought an uptick, but as we’ve seen in the past with part-time wrestlers who start showing up weekly, even their impact eventually gets down to nothing.


Agree 100%. The ratings might of been decent this week, but look at the overall picture. The ratings are down from last year. I attribute the ratings bump to Heyman this week, but that won't last.


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## SPCDRI

Instead of thinking year over year drop, instead think about the company as having a pre-Shield and Brock focal point era and now the Shield-And-Brock Era. It depends where you want to set the cut-off point for the transitional period to the main focus being Brock Lesnar and Shield members, but maybe saying the transition away from Cena and others after Punk was out the door and Bryan was shelved for medical reasons could be started in say, July 2016 when the UT was instituted and the first champ being Finn Balor in August as the beginning of a sort of "transitional champion" period to Brock Lesnar and Shield members. 

The numbers at this period of time all reliably were competing for 3 million an hour and over 3 million for the show overall. In June and July 2016, you can read reports on ratings and viewerships like, "Ratings down big from last year" and then see every hour was above 3 million. Whereas if you read a report about ratings being down big overall, that means the numbers are down 20 percent or more from where they were in 2018, and every hour was sub-2.5 million with the third hour close to 2 million flat. 

Only going back 1 year is covering this "Universal Era" up quite a bit. Go back 3 to 5 years and the drop off is crazy. Its much bigger than the dropoff in viewership for television in general now. They are not "falling with style" anymore, they are just free-falling. 

It really is something to see a show go 2.5 million/2.7 million/2.3 million and have people praising it. Everything is not fine. They need to consistently build on these numbers to even get to so much as 1 hour hitting 3 million viewers.


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## CMPunkRock316

Second hour was decent with a boost but then it dropped over 300,000 for hour #3.

Hour 1 was not a good number, Hour 2 was solid but the increase was astroturf with buzz from Heyman and the open. Hour 3 on paper is traditionally higher and a good number but still dropped considerably from hour 2 which is a concern.


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## Ace

You just know numbers are going to be horrific after that terrible first hour/show (as a whole).


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## chronoxiong

Ace said:


> You just know numbers are going to be horrific after that terrible first hour/show (as a whole).


Or judging from this week's RAW thread, its going to be bad too. The RAW thread isn't even at 100 pages.


----------



## drougfree

cant wait for the most interesing part of the week


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## bradatar

This week was absolute dog shit. I don't check in here too frequently, but I am curious what ratings did after the abyssmal first hour.


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## rbl85

You never know


----------



## Fearless Viper

Nwo4lyfe Vs Becky's GF fans are about to go at it again! :boombrock


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## YoUAiNtWoRtHiT

I haven't watched anything since Saudi.






Fearless Viper said:


> Nwo4lyfe Vs Becky's GF fans are about to go at it again! :boombrock


You already know :lol


----------



## Chrome

Are the ratings delayed? :hmm:


----------



## Steven Fraser

WWE and old fans just hope & pray they get another late 90’s come round again will,be sorely disappointed the WWE has became so dismal in 2019.

The Gratitude era. ��


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Ratings (RAW and UFC) are delayed for tomorrow.


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## Ace

Steven Fraser said:


> WWE and old fans just hope & pray they get another late 90’s come round again will,be sorely disappointed the WWE has became so dismal in 2019.
> 
> The Gratitude era. ��


 The Yas Queen era.

How many fans do you have saying shit like YAS queen/slay king etc. to UFC fighters?

WWE is tailored to the pussies and has become a joke to the demo that matters in terms of mainstream and popularity.


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## Tk Adeyemi

Quick question why do u guys use past ratings to judge current ratings? Since we all agree that cable tv today is not the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago due to live streams, Hulu, etc why can’t we use current tv shows as a metric. While I understand that ratings are not what it was, the fact that raw and smackdown live are the top rated shows on tv tells me that they are doing just fine in today’s ratings climate.


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## ClintDagger

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Quick question why do u guys use past ratings to judge current ratings? Since we all agree that cable tv today is not the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago due to live streams, Hulu, etc why can’t we use current tv shows as a metric. While I understand that ratings are not what it was, the fact that raw and smackdown live are the top rated shows on tv tells me that they are doing just fine in today’s ratings climate.


Nobody does what you are saying. The comparisons most talked about in this thread are YoY. Of which WWE’s drop is much more drastic than the average drop for cable.


----------



## Zappers

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Quick question why do u guys use past ratings to judge current ratings? Since we all agree that cable tv today is not the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago due to live streams, Hulu, etc why can’t we use current tv shows as a metric. While I understand that ratings are not what it was, the fact that raw and smackdown live are the top rated shows on tv tells me that they are doing just fine in today’s ratings climate.


Exactly. All the other shows have gone down too. There's a hundred shows/sports/etc on cable competing against them in the same timeslot. And that's just cable, now add in major TV networks. Now add in Netflix, Hulu, etc... the fact that the majority of people dvr RAW/SD. WWE digital viewership went up over 20% this year. All contribute to the ratings taking a hit.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> Exactly. All the other shows have gone down too. There's a hundred shows/sports/etc on cable competing against them in the same timeslot. And that's just cable, now add in major TV networks. Now add in Netflix, Hulu, etc... the fact that the majority of people dvr RAW/SD. WWE digital viewership went up over 20% this year. All contribute to the ratings taking a hit.


If NBCU and Fox were thrilled with where things are at, and where they are headed I’d say you have an argument. However, the drop since last year is so severe and WWE is getting so much heat that there is no debate that what’s happening to their viewership is a huge concern. If there was no pressure on WWE Heyman and Bischoff wouldn’t be getting pulled in. If the fall rate continues as it is they won’t be getting any tv contracts next time around. That’s why it’s a hot topic.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> If NBCU and Fox were thrilled with where things are at, and where they are headed I’d say you have an argument. However, the drop since last year is so severe and WWE is getting so much heat that there is no debate that what’s happening to their viewership is a huge concern. If there was no pressure on WWE Heyman and Bischoff wouldn’t be getting pulled in. If the fall rate continues as it is they won’t be getting any tv contracts next time around. That’s why it’s a hot topic.


I understand what you are saying. But as far as FOX being thrilled or not thrilled we don't know. This is all rumor. The only facts we know is FOX is going to be pushing/promoing WWE hard when it gets closer to October. Plus they will be ads for WWE on all their major network shows, all their sporting events, etc... Including Thursday Night NFL Football and NASCAR. Another point to bring up, WWE will be getting new advertisers that they probably never got before on USA. So FOX is all in, is what I'm getting at. Being in 30+ million more homes and on a major network instead of a cable channel (not to mention it can be watched by simple antenna for those without cable) can only help


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> I understand what you are saying. But as far as FOX being thrilled or not thrilled we don't know. This is all rumor. The only facts we know is FOX is going to be pushing/promoing WWE hard when it gets closer to October. Plus they will be ads for WWE on all their major network shows, all their sporting events, etc... Including Thursday Night NFL Football and NASCAR. Another point to bring up, WWE will be getting new advertisers that they probably never got before on USA. So FOX is all in, is what I'm getting at. Being in 30+ million more homes and on a major network instead of a cable channel (not to mention it can be watched by simple antenna for those without cable) can only help


I think we do know the networks are unhappy. There have been too many panic moves lately. The wild card rule, the reduction of emphasis on the women, Undertaker being back, Heyman, Bischoff, no wrestling during commercials, the 24/7 title, giving Brock the briefcase, I’m sure I’m missing others. Fox is still going to give it a try obviously, but there’s no way they don’t get canceled if the ratings don’t improve drastically. It’s just common sense. Sure they will be in more homes, but do the type of people that don’t have cable care about wrestling? That will be the question.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Those are great numbers, most of the top shows on cable do 500k-1m viewers

The reason why I am asking is because what is the metrics used for good ratings today. Let’s take music for example, back in 2000 if you sold 1m records u were seen as successful. In today’s digital age no one sells 1m records but there are a lot of successful artists out there.
I just think we have to take into account the damage digital media and social media has done to cable tv. 
In 1998 when stone cold came on my tv it was must see tv and u wouldn’t dare miss it because I wasn’t sure if it would come on again. In today’s time if stone cold came on my tv and I was busy, I would simply skip raw and watch it 24 hours later on Hulu.
Also the rock is the goat but his show the titans only did 1.8 in ratings.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tuesday-cable-ratings-july-2-2019/
Smackdown live is no 1. 
Until I see raw and smackdown fall out of the top 10 I won’t worry. The big worry for wwe is the low attendance record at venues in my opinion.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

WWE RAW Viewership Down Going Into Extreme Rules


> Monday's WWE RAW episode, the final red brand show before Extreme Rules, drew an average of 2.352 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily. This is down 6% from last week's 2.496 million viewers.
> 
> This week's RAW featured a double main event advertised ahead of time - Andrade and Zelina Vega vs. RAW Women's Champion Becky Lynch and WWE Universal Champion Seth Rollins, which was the opener, plus the closing match - Shane McMahon and Drew McIntyre vs. Roman Reigns and his mystery partner (Cedric Alexander masked as Gary The Janitor). Rey Mysterio's return was also announced.
> 
> For this week's show, the first hour drew 2.384 million viewers (last week's hour 1 - 2.468 million), the second hour drew 2.349 million viewers (last week's hour 2 - 2.676 million) and the final hour drew 2.322 million viewers (last week's hour 3 - 2.345 million).
> 
> RAW was #7 in viewership this week, behind the MLB Home Run Derby, the Derby Prelude, Hannity, Tucker Carlson Tonight, The Five, and The Ingraham Angle. RAW was #5 in the Cable Top 150 18-49 demographic this week, behind the Derby, the Derby Prelude, Love & Hip-Hop, and the MLB Celebrity Softball game.
> 
> The Bachelorette on ABC drew 6.035 million viewers on broadcast TV in the 8pm hour while The Neighborhood drew 3.490 million viewers on CBS, American Ninja Warrior drew 4.494 million viewers on NBC, Beat Shazam drew 2.351 million viewers on Fox and CW's Penn & Teller show drew 1.149 million viewers, all in the 8pm hour on broadcast TV.
> 
> Below is our 2019 RAW Viewership Tracker:
> 
> January 7 Episode: 2.324 million viewers
> January 14 Episode: 2.722 million viewers
> January 21 Episode: 2.462 million viewers
> January 28 Episode: 2.703 million viewers (post-Royal Rumble episode)
> February 4 Episode: 2.510 million viewers
> February 11 Episode: 2.462 million viewers
> February 18 Episode: 2.771 million viewers (post-Elimination Chamber episode)
> February 25 Episode: 2.922 million viewers
> March 4 Episode: 2.783 million viewers
> March 11 Episode: 2.819 million viewers (post-Fastlane episode)
> March 18 Episode: 2.695 million viewers
> March 25 Episode: 2.589 million viewers
> April 1 Episode: 2.639 million viewers
> April 8 Episode: 2.923 million viewers (post-WrestleMania 35 episode)
> April 15 Episode: 2.665 million viewers (Superstar Shakeup episode)
> April 22 Episode: 2.374 million viewers
> April 29 Episode: 2.158 million viewers
> May 6 Episode: 2.244 million viewers
> May 13 Episode: 2.349 million viewers (taped episode from London)
> May 20 Episode: 2.521 million viewers (post-Money In the Bank episode)
> May 27 Episode: 2.190 million viewers (Memorial Day episode)
> June 3 Episode: 2.405 million viewers
> June 10 Episode: 2.125 million viewers (post-Super ShowDown episode)
> June 17 Episode: 2.235 million viewers
> June 24 Episode: 2.275 (post-Stomping Grounds episode)
> July 1 Episode: 2.496 million viewers
> July 8 Episode: 2.352 million viewers
> July 15 Episode:
> 
> 2018 Total: 149.628 million viewers over 53 episodes
> 2018 Average: 2.823 million viewers per episode
> 
> 2017 Total: 156.971 million viewers over 52 episodes
> 2017 Average: 3.018 million viewers per episode


Source: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/wwe-raw-viewership-down-going-into-extreme-rules-656190/


> – The rating and viewership for Raw backtracked a bit ahead of this weekend’s Extreme Rules. Monday’s episode brought in a 0.72 rating in the 18 – 49 demographic and 2.352 million viewers, down 8% and 6% from last week’s 0.79 demo rating and 2.496 million viewers. The numbers were the lowest for Raw since the June 17th episode scored a 0.71 rating and an audience of 2.235 million.
> 
> Raw came in at #5 among cable originals for the night, pushed down by direct competition in the Home Run Derby on ESPN and Celebrity Softball game that followed. The main Home Run Derby topped the night among cable originals per Showbuzz Daily with a 1.80 demo rating and 5.347 million viewers, followed by the prelude (1.02/3.429 million), Love & Hip-Hop on VH-1 (0.85/1.758 million) and the Celebrity Softball game (0.85/2.157 million). The hourly numbers were:
> 
> 8 PM: 0.71 demo rating (2.384 million viewers)
> 9 PM: 0.73 demo rating (2.349 million viewers)
> 10 PM: 0.73 demo rating (2.322 million viewers)


Source: https://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-raw-rating-down-heading-into-extreme-rules/


----------



## ClintDagger

Tk Adeyemi said:


> The reason why I am asking is because what is the metrics used for good ratings today. Let’s take music for example, back in 2000 if you sold 1m records u were seen as successful. In today’s digital age no one sells 1m records but there are a lot of successful artists out there.
> I just think we have to take into account the damage digital media and social media has done to cable tv.
> In 1998 when stone cold came on my tv it was must see tv and u wouldn’t dare miss it because I wasn’t sure if it would come on again. In today’s time if stone cold came on my tv and I was busy, I would simply skip raw and watch it 24 hours later on Hulu.
> Also the rock is the goat but his show the titans only did 1.8 in ratings.
> 
> https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tuesday-cable-ratings-july-2-2019/
> Smackdown live is no 1.
> Until I see raw and smackdown fall out of the top 10 I won’t worry. The big worry for wwe is the low attendance record at venues in my opinion.


If WWE can stop the fall and remain above 2MM for the next several years they will be fine. They won’t survive on Fox, but somebody will pick them up. The point you seem to be missing is that the conversation is not about where they are in the rankings, it’s the drastic YoY drop that if they don’t stop or severely curb they will not be on television anymore. There are other factors working against them like demos, ad rates, and just the stigma of pro wrestling in general. They need to be solidly in the top 10 in order for networks to want them. The only things they bring are they are live (usually) and they add to the raw viewership figures which keeps USA relevant. It’s a balancing act. Networks can hold their nose and put pro wrestling on their schedule if they are bringing in 2MM to 3MM viewers per hour. As they get closer to 1MM the stench starts to become too much. WWE knows this and Fox and NBCU know this and that’s why there is a scramble to throw things at the wall and see what sticks.

Man, going down after last week’s effort and a go home show. Plus the people that tuned in can’t have liked what they saw. They better make ER a newsworthy show.


----------



## HankHill_85

Damn, they just can't get that third hour up.

I still think even the most basic promotion is where WWE is lacking when it comes to Raw. Remember the Attitude Era when they announced what the main event was a week out? I'm not talking "it'll happen somewhere during the show", I mean the MAIN EVENT.

Give people at least some possible incentive to tune in.


----------



## ClintDagger

HankHill_85 said:


> Damn, they just can't get that third hour up.
> 
> I still think even the most basic promotion is where WWE is lacking when it comes to Raw. Remember the Attitude Era when they announced what the main event was a week out? I'm not talking "it'll happen somewhere during the show", I mean the MAIN EVENT.
> 
> Give people at least some possible incentive to tune in.


I agree with your premise, but I think they avoid announcing main events partly because they know they will be underwhelming. I get that a lot of it is because of the late rewrites, but if you said the main event is Roman and a JAG vs Shane & Drew that’s not going to help the third hour. If you have something like Batista returning it can help. But with this roster short of the title being on the line I don’t think there is much they can do.


----------



## HankHill_85

ClintDagger said:


> I agree with your premise, but I think they avoid announcing main events partly because they know they will be underwhelming. I get that a lot of it is because of the late rewrites, but if you said the main event is Roman and a JAG vs Shane & Drew that’s not going to help the third hour. If you have something like Batista returning it can help. But with this roster short of the title being on the line I don’t think there is much they can do.


I think it's more that these clowns don't even know what Raw looks like until an hour before the cameras start rolling, sometimes even less.


----------



## ClintDagger

HankHill_85 said:


> I think it's more that these clowns don't even know what Raw looks like until an hour before the cameras start rolling, sometimes even less.


That’s definitely the biggest part of it.


----------



## SPCDRI

HankHill_85 said:


> I think it's more that these clowns don't even know what Raw looks like until an hour before the cameras start rolling, sometimes even less.


Any decision is better than indecision. There are rumors going around that RAW is to a point where they don't know every match on the card not just on Monday morning, but as the show is happening and they are booking matches as the show is going. There are also grumblings that they are rewriting promos and segments and handing revised or even totally new scripts to people as the show is ongoing as well. Its just a steak wrap fiasco. We know who is principally to "thank"...

:vince3

But the networks and investors are finally riding them for these lousy numbers which makes it even more "scrambling eggs"

:cornette

Then as all this Keystone Kops malarkey is happening, they're booking all these weird stipulations and break ups to matches due to the no-wrestling-through-commercials edict, whoever that is from. That ain't helpin' matters.

Edit: The most troubling thing to me is the flattening of the numbers. If all numbers do 2.whatever with no big difference, eh. That shows that the people that are left are the full-show viewers and there is no interest spikes and very few sort of pop-in viewers and stuff like that going on. The convergence of viewers for all the hours for RAW could be really bad for them if the overall total viewership number goes down. Imagine them going down from these numbers somehow by about 300,000 during MNF. We're looking at a whole show being 2 flat or below. 

:mj2


----------



## Randy Lahey

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Those are great numbers, most of the top shows on cable do 500k-1m viewers
> 
> The reason why I am asking is because what is the metrics used for good ratings today. Let’s take music for example, back in 2000 if you sold 1m records u were seen as successful. In today’s digital age no one sells 1m records but there are a lot of successful artists out there.
> I just think we have to take into account the damage digital media and social media has done to cable tv.
> In 1998 when stone cold came on my tv it was must see tv and u wouldn’t dare miss it because I wasn’t sure if it would come on again. In today’s time if stone cold came on my tv and I was busy, I would simply skip raw and watch it 24 hours later on Hulu.
> Also the rock is the goat but his show the titans only did 1.8 in ratings.
> 
> https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tuesday-cable-ratings-july-2-2019/
> Smackdown live is no 1.
> Until I see raw and smackdown fall out of the top 10 I won’t worry. The big worry for wwe is the low attendance record at venues in my opinion.


It's not about where their show ranks. It's about how much that show costs a TV network to carry vs how many viewers that show brings in. TV Networks want to make money. You can't make money by spending a ton of money on a show that doesn't bring in alot of viewers.

WWE needs to have ratings far above it's competition to justify what TV networks pay them for the show. Otherwise, what is the incentive for a TV network to keep them? USA could make more money putting reruns of The Office on during their monday night time slot. They aren't going to bring iin the same ratings as Raw, but they'll cost far less.

TV shows get cancelled all the time when the cost of the show far outweights the benefits of additional viewers. When a TV show becomes to costly to produce, it's generally cancelled. I see the same thing happening to WWE.

Nobody is going to pay them $1 billion dollars for similar ratings that got WCW and TNA cancelled.

And you make an interesting point about Musicians. Yes, fewer records are being sold now than in 2000. Therefore, you see far fewer record stores now, than in 2000. Many record stores went out of business. Same thing will happen to wrestling on cable tv. Since there are few fewer consumers of wrestling on cable TV, inevitably there will be less wrestling on cable TV. Now, perhaps it will be consumed in different medias (like WWE Network). But in your example, the record store is like Cable TV. It is delivering the product. If the product is no longer selling, the store goes out of business or changes what it sells. For Cable TV, I don't think USA will go out of business, but I do think they will have to change what they air on their channel


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

:maury The go-home show that sucked decreased from last week. Imagine that.

Look at the downward spiral the viewership and ratings took after the post-WM RAW. Holy shit, how drastic. RAW hasn't even touched at or above 3 million viewers all year. This is very troubling and will only prove to be difficult once the fall hits.


----------



## bradatar

Wow after last week, and on the go home show and they opened so low. They gotta hit another panic button soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SPCDRI

WINNING said:


> :maury The go-home show that sucked decreased from last week. Imagine that.
> 
> Look at the downward spiral the viewership and ratings took after the post-WM RAW. Holy shit, how drastic. RAW hasn't even touched at or above 3 million viewers all year. This is very troubling and will only prove to be difficult once the fall hits.


3 million viewers? They're dreaming of that for an overall show these days, After Superstar Shakeup/Draft Night, they only broke 2.5 million overall viewers once, the first show back after Money in the Bank. 

:brock2

Save_US Bork LAZER

:brock


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

As I predicted, the Heyman bump from last week was out of sheer intrigue. This week, it was back to the same garbage RAW has been in for most of the year. People will say Vince took the book back, and you can smell some of his stench from Monday, but if Heyman is already or has already taken charge since a couple months ago, he deserves some of the blame too. It was reported that the Maria/Mike angle, the Ricochet push, and the advancement of Seff/Becky is his doing and if that is the case, then he's just as out of touch as Vince is. 

Heyman may very well be :washed as a creative mind.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Thanks for your input man, you gave me a clearer understanding ?


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Damn Randy u nailed it, I totally forgot that the networks pay wwe far more than they would pay other shows. Great points.


----------



## SPCDRI

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Damn Randy u nailed it, I totally forgot that the networks pay wwe far more than they would pay other shows. Great points.


Does USA pay something like 300 million a year on their contract with WWE? Even though its 3 hours of live programming, that's still nearly 2 million and hour and it runs every Monday, too. I wonder what they pay per hour for their other shows? I can't imagine its close to 2 million an hour.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

What a shocker, the show was trash and nobody wants to watch two morons (Becky and Seth.)


----------



## xio8ups

2.4 for raw lolololol pls go under 2.0 soon


----------



## SPCDRI

xio8ups said:


> 2.4 for raw lolololol pls go under 2.0 soon


Historically, MNF leads to a double digit viewer drop. 

Here was last year's pre-MNF RAW against the MNF next week...


Hour 1: 2.945 million viewers, .95 rating in 18-49 demographic
Hour 2: 2.933 million viewers, 1.00 rating in 18-49 demographic
Hour 3: 2.740 million viewers, .97 rating in 18-49 demographic


Hour 1: 2.818 million viewers, .88 rating in 18-49 demographic
Hour 2: 2.801 million viewers, .91 rating in 18-49 demographic
Hour 3: 2.601 million viewers, .89 rating in 18-49 demographic

I think its pretty reasonable to expect at least another 100,000 viewers to leave when college football, MNF and playoff baseball happen this September and October.


----------



## Jonhern

SPCDRI said:


> Does USA pay something like 300 million a year on their contract with WWE? Even though its 3 hours of live programming, that's still nearly 2 million and hour and it runs every Monday, too. I wonder what they pay per hour for their other shows? I can't imagine its close to 2 million an hour.


they will be paying $5 million per show come this fall, they pay like 1.5 million now if you divide equally between RAW and SDL. So about $1.6 million per hour which is pretty cheap actually for a series that is top 5 of the ratings all year long and is also live. These are 2017 numbers, so they would be higher now but gives an idea on why the networks were willing to pay them this much, especially FOX which sold off its studios, which would make original programming much more expensive for them then it used to be: 
"The estimates on the cost of content that emerged from these interviews peg the typical range of the production budget for high-end cable and streaming dramas at $5 million-$7 million an hour, while single-camera half hours on broadcast and cable run from $1.5 million to more than $3 million."
So USA will be paying WWE for RAW what it would cost just to make one 1 hour drama series, and FOX would be paying around $4 million for 2 hours of live TV when they would pay close to that for just one half hour show. So WWE is actually a bargain when you consider its live, and they run all year long. 
Everyone saying they won't get a new contract is smoking something strong, they will get something, maybe not as much as the new contracts that kick in later this fall if ratings don't bounce back, but they wont get anything lower than what they get now.


----------



## Jonhern

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Quick question why do u guys use past ratings to judge current ratings? Since we all agree that cable tv today is not the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago due to live streams, Hulu, etc why can’t we use current tv shows as a metric. While I understand that ratings are not what it was, the fact that raw and smackdown live are the top rated shows on tv tells me that they are doing just fine in today’s ratings climate.


the issue with the drops is that it is falling faster than the other shows, and out of sync with what you would expect from cord cutters. The demo used to be around 1.0 when the contracts were negotiated and now they regularly do .6-.8, even falling to .5 at times. That's not good for the networks since even though the demo is the most important part of ad rates, another factor is the income of the viewers and wrestling fans are perceived as being lower income and so the networks don't get as much as other sports and shows. So its not ok for them to be just as good as other shows on cable, they need to do better as they used to do before the big drops that started last year. As I posted above in another post, they still bring in good ratings all year long and cost less per hour than what the networks could put on that may; but more likely would not; do better ratings so they will be fine for now. the biggest plus is they are all year long and get somewhat consistent numbers for the year, which helps USA for instance say they are number one network in cable, which is big from a branding standpoint and worth a lot in and of itself.


----------



## bradatar

SPCDRI said:


> Historically, MNF leads to a double digit viewer drop.
> 
> Here was last year's pre-MNF RAW against the MNF next week...
> 
> 
> Hour 1: 2.945 million viewers, .95 rating in 18-49 demographic
> Hour 2: 2.933 million viewers, 1.00 rating in 18-49 demographic
> Hour 3: 2.740 million viewers, .97 rating in 18-49 demographic
> 
> 
> Hour 1: 2.818 million viewers, .88 rating in 18-49 demographic
> Hour 2: 2.801 million viewers, .91 rating in 18-49 demographic
> Hour 3: 2.601 million viewers, .89 rating in 18-49 demographic
> 
> I think its pretty reasonable to expect at least another 100,000 viewers to leave when college football, MNF and playoff baseball happen this September and October.


Very reasonable to expect sub 2 million by MNF.


----------



## llj

WINNING said:


> As I predicted, the Heyman bump from last week was out of sheer intrigue. This week, it was back to the same garbage RAW has been in for most of the year. People will say Vince took the book back, and you can smell some of his stench from Monday, but if Heyman is already or has already taken charge since a couple months ago, he deserves some of the blame too. It was reported that the Maria/Mike angle, the Ricochet push, and the advancement of Seff/Becky is his doing and if that is the case, then he's just as out of touch as Vince is.
> 
> Heyman may very well be :washed as a creative mind.


One of the problems is that we're stuck with these angles because they are already in motion and have been for a while. We are also stuck with these main characters as focal points since they have committed so much time and money to them that they simply cannot just wipe the slate and do a complete recasting of roles.


It's really tough to see how they turn this around now. Rightly or wrongly, audiences who have tuned out are associating these specific characters to the decline in watchability so even if the WWE simply "wrote them better" (which they haven't yet), it still may not halt the slide. If you look throughout history, both in TNA, WCW and WWE, the characters who were the main focus during massive down years tended to carry that burden all through their careers.

Although the WWE may just figure that the current 2 months' flatlining of the slide at around 2.3-2.4m per week may be good enough.


----------



## virus21




----------



## Fearless Viper

I'm expecting a good bump if not a well maintained hours of ratings. :boombrock


----------



## bradatar

I think these numbers shouldn't be too bad. They trolled us hard with that Battle Royal.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hour 1: 2.379
Hour 2: 2.503
Hour 3: 2.478


Lowest rated hour was the FIRST hour. :lmao Hour 3 actually outdrew Hour 1. :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## rexmundi

Coming off a "shocking" ppv, the number is crap, Hour 1 in particular. :sodone


----------



## Frost99

New Thread, SAME gif........

#MondayNightBORE #WWELogic #AEWonTNT2019








At this rate a company WITHOUT a weekely TV program is going to have the PPV of the Summer....AUG 31ST


----------



## llj

Yeah, no movements up or down at this point whether it's a go home show or after a PPV. The audience for this product has largely flatlined to their default loyalists at this point.


----------



## Fearless Viper

GOAT Orton return maintained the viewers. :cena


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Showstopper said:


> Hour 1: 2.379
> Hour 2: 2.503
> Hour 2: 2.478
> 
> 
> Lowest rated hour was the FIRST hour. :lmao Hour 3 actually outdrew Hour 1. :lmao :lmao :lmao


Both Rollins and Becky were part of the two better hour part of the show. :lol


----------



## Mordecay

The main event actually retained the viewers, color me surprised, I thought that after that womens match they would leave.


----------



## A-C-P

:Rollins :beckylol :bryanlol :reneelel :tysonlol :ha :maury :kobelol :heston


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FYI, the PPV bump this year was 90K viewers.

The PPV bump this time last year was 400K viewers.

Ratings 'saved.'


----------



## DammitChrist

That's weird.

I was told for months that crowning a new world champion and that Brock Lesnar would save the ratings.

Either way, I still blame Vince for his mediocre shows.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

So you tell me that taking the belt off of Seth Rollins and putting it back on Brock Lesnar was the better deal when Lesnar was part of the lowest drawing hour of the show? :ha


----------



## Kabraxal

I thought Brock was the saviour? That’s what some posters here told me... they weren’t lying were they?


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

> Monday's post-Extreme Rules edition of WWE RAW, featuring fallout from the pay-per-view, drew an average of 2.453 million viewers, according to Showbuzz Daily. This is up 4.3% from last week's 2.352 million viewers and is the third best audience for the show since the Superstar Shakeup in April.


 wrestlinginc.


----------



## Jedah

But but but I was told that Brock is a huge huge huge draw in 2019!

You mean it was just dickriding all along? HOL-YEE SHEETTT!


----------



## Metalhead1

I wouldn't be surprised if Raw's ratings increased this week. For once, they had some interesting things on and finally brought out some fresh and new faces like the Viking Raiders and Bray Wyatt, and didn't just rehash the same old names like they do week after week. This is probably the result of Heyman having his handprints on the show. I actually liked plenty of aspects of last night's show and I haven't said that in a while. Hopefully it'll continue on Smackdown tonight.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Mordecay said:


> The main event actually retained the viewers, color me surprised, I thought that after that womens match they would leave.


Battle royals with big stars advertised always do well.



Metalhead1 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Raw's ratings increased this week. For once, they had some interesting things on and finally brought out some fresh and new faces like the Viking Raiders and Bray Wyatt, and didn't just rehash the same old names like they do week after week. This is probably the result of Heyman having his handprints on the show. I actually liked plenty of aspects of last night's show and I haven't said that in a while. Hopefully it'll continue on Smackdown tonight.


The Viking Raiders didn't bring in a single viewer, and nobody knew Bray was returning. People stuck around because they advertised a battle royal in the main event with Roman, Rollins, Orton & Rey. People like to see stars, and battle royals are fun.


----------



## Chan Hung

Showstopper said:


> Hour 1: 2.379
> Hour 2: 2.503
> Hour 2: 2.478
> 
> 
> Lowest rated hour was the FIRST hour. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" /> Hour 3 actually outdrew Hour 1. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" />


Hour 3 should have been highest they had lots in that battle royal. I'll LMAO if next week they are low 2s after bringing back everyone alive from the past
:heston


----------



## chronoxiong

Brock "I dont make a difference in ratings" Lesnar as Champion had the worst first hour compared to the other two. How the hell did Hour 3 outdraw the first hour? That is baffling.


----------



## Dolorian

Lesnar is really here to, in Heyman's words, "beat, victimize and conquer" the ratings :lol

Vince is wasting his money with Lesnar.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Chan Hung said:


> Hour 3 should have been highest they had lots in that battle royal. I'll LMAO if next week they are low 2s after bringing back everyone alive from the past
> :heston


That's nearly impossible. Hour 3 is almost never the highest rated hour. It's happened before, but not often. The fact that it's not the lowest rated hour is funny.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

There's really no reason to think Brock would ever bump the ratings in any big way. His act has been stale for years and even if his fans don't want to see it, it's still pretty obvious to everyone else.


----------



## rexmundi

Seth has been the most pushed guy on raw for the last 9 months. His ratings baby was due and it looks like it was stillborn. 8*D :Cocky


----------



## SPCDRI

Showstopper said:


> FYI, the PPV bump this year was 90K viewers.
> 
> The PPV bump this time last year was 400K viewers.
> 
> Ratings 'saved.'


SAVE US BORK LAZER

:brock

2.4 million is the floor for this part of the season, it seems. They came off a PPV with multiple title changes and that's the number for HOUR 1?! Somebody call my mama!


----------



## SPCDRI

Rick Sanchez said:


> There's really no reason to think Brock would ever bump the ratings in any big way. His act has been stale for years and even if his fans don't want to see it, it's still pretty obvious to everyone else.


Yet its not obvious to the people that matter

:vince3

:trips2

:steph

:shane


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SPCDRI said:


> SAVE US BORK LAZER
> 
> :brock
> 
> 2.4 million is the floor for this part of the season, it seems. They came off a PPV with multiple title changes and that's the number for HOUR 1?! Somebody call my mama!


I wonder if Hour 1 has ever been the lowest rated hour since Raw went 3 hours. Or, is this is the first time this has happened? I honestly don't know. I can't believe it happened last night, though.


----------



## SPCDRI

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if Hour 1 has ever been the lowest rated hour since Raw went 3 hours. Or, is this is the first time this has happened? I honestly don't know. I can't believe it happened last night, though.


I'm certain its happened, but its really, really rare. Might happen 5 or 6 times all year that hour 3 does better than hour 1, its a ten to one shot. 

Hour 2 doing better than hour 1 is rarer still, I bet. 

That first hour eats ass.


----------



## Jedah

Dolorian said:


> Lesnar is really here to, in Heyman's words, "beat, victimize and conquer" the ratings :lol
> 
> Vince is wasting his money with Lesnar.


I don't think I've ever seen so much investment for such little return in this industry.

The words of a certain ex Shield member are coming to mind.


----------



## Dolorian

Jedah said:


> I don't think I've ever seen so much investment for such little return in this industry.


Guy isn't even a top 5 merch seller doubt he is even top 10 and hardly does live shows or any media.


----------



## llj

SPCDRI said:


> I'm certain its happened, but its really, really rare. Might happen 5 or 6 times all year that hour 3 does better than hour 1, its a ten to one shot.
> 
> Hour 2 doing better than hour 1 is rarer still, I bet.
> 
> That first hour eats ass.


Hour 2 being higher than Hour 1, or being the highest hour of the show, is not uncommon. It's not the _usual_ trend but a few weeks a year there is always a high Hour 2. Most of that is because 9:00pm can often be when there are the most available viewers in general. 

Hour 3 NOT being the lowest hour of the show is very uncommon though. Hours 1 and 2 can switch places, but they are often never the lowest rated hour.


----------



## SPCDRI

Dolorian said:


> Guy isn't even a top 5 merch seller doubt he is even top 10 and hardly does live shows or any media.


They are probably paying him more money than Peak Cena, when Cena did so much more for the company, its hard to even comprehend. Yeah, Cena had the plum, cushy gig and rockstar booking, but man, WWE rode his ass HARD. Cena did 50 times over for WWE what Brock does in terms of dates, appearances, movies, cross-promotion, interviews, charity, etc EASILY.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Hour 2 was the Wyatt debut, maybe people saw that or word spread and they came in.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Showstopper said:


> FYI, the PPV bump this year was 90K viewers.
> 
> The PPV bump this time last year was 400K viewers.
> 
> Ratings 'saved.'


Funny I predicted before Raw 



CMPunkRock316 said:


> Raw deserves sub 1 million viewers tonight. However when ratings come out Tuesday afternoon and we see about an 80-100k increase in viewership the 5 Lesnar Marks on here will go "ratingz" when the post PPV usually sees a slight increase.






DammitC said:


> That's weird.
> 
> I was told for months that crowning a new world champion and that Brock Lesnar would save the ratings.
> 
> Either way, I still blame Vince for his mediocre shows.


Exactly couldn't have agreed more.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

They’re really looking to next week’s Reunion show for that big ratings bump, but still, there should’ve been a Brock + fallout bump here from the PPV and it doesn’t really look like it’s there.

Putting the belt back on Brock is a retread to a story they’ve been telling for the last 5 years. If Heyman being in charge means more Brock, then no matter what talent he has as a promoter, he’s going to have a major challenge ahead of him, because we’ve seen this story over and over and over again. Brock’s been champ, Brock’s been beaten, Brock’s had the briefcase, Brock’s been champ again, etc.

He’s barking up the wrong tree, especially if they’re gunning for Reigns vs Brock yet again.


----------



## SPCDRI

A sub-100,000 boost off of a PPV that had that many title changes is bad news.


----------



## bradatar

Woops


----------



## ClintDagger

Mordecay said:


> The main event actually retained the viewers, color me surprised, I thought that after that womens match they would leave.


I’m not surprised. I remember when they had a number one contenders match early in the year and it drew well in hour 3.



Showstopper said:


> Hour 1: 2.379
> Hour 2: 2.503
> Hour 3: 2.478
> 
> 
> Lowest rated hour was the FIRST hour. :lmao Hour 3 actually outdrew Hour 1. :lmao :lmao :lmao


To me that’s a good thing. I think the audience is getting more and more casual to where they don’t know the PPV results and just tune in to see what’s up (ie don’t care enough to look them up). If you can regularly do a trend where you are building viewers instead of shedding viewers that’s a positive.



Jedah said:


> But but but I was told that Brock is a huge huge huge draw in 2019!
> 
> You mean it was just dickriding all along? HOL-YEE SHEETTT!


Nah, that’s disingenuous. This thread IMO has been pretty consistent in saying Brock is their biggest star but they intentionally gave him bad heat in the hopes of helping Roman and now he’s a damaged product. Now that the product is dying they panic and go back to him which is understandable but the damage has been done..

What people have been calling for is one of the more charismatic guys to get a chance like say Elias. Brock having the title is better than Seth but at this point it’s not by much. But Seth was totally dead. At least with Brock if you try something new with him maybe you have a chance.


----------



## Jedah

Bro, just stop. Brock is not a big star in 2019 or long before. Saying otherwise is pure dickriding at this point. He's just a massive drain on the product with far too little returned to justify it. There is nothing that's going to change it. Nothing. Stop the dickriding.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jedah said:


> Bro, just stop. Brock is not a big star in 2019 or long before. Saying otherwise is pure dickriding at this point. He's just a massive drain on the product with far too little returned to justify it. There is nothing that's going to change it. Nothing. Stop the dickriding.


I don’t know that anyone is saying he’s a big star. He probably still would be for UFC, but he’s undeniably WWE’s biggest star and they need him to impress the networks. That’s all I’m saying. Does he help the ratings? Yeah probably but it’s so de minimis at this point it’s no longer worth keeping score.

And hey I’m not trying to hurt your feelings or anything. Just throwing out my $0.02. Remember, it’s just a wrestling forum. Nothing here is changing the world or affecting lives. If my opinion is really getting you that upset just take a break from the net for awhile and get some perspective.


----------



## birthday_massacre

LOL Brock the ratings killer


----------



## ClintDagger

birthday_massacre said:


> LOL Brock the ratings killer


Brock isn’t the answer. The better move would have been to have Brock squash Kofi and try to rehab the WWE Title and SD in general. But as far as Raw goes, Brock will only help very, very minimally. They damaged him too much last year (on purpose I should add). Seth was a failure but I don’t think that surprised anybody. Still, I would have kept it on Seth and tried building up some new contenders that they haven’t tried before. The people that talk about everything revolving around The Shield and Brock are right. That’s been done to death and hasn’t done great business anyways.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jedah said:


> Bro, just stop. Brock is not a big star in 2019 or long before. Saying otherwise is pure dickriding at this point. He's just a massive drain on the product with far too little returned to justify it. There is nothing that's going to change it. Nothing. Stop the dickriding.


When Hour 3 outdraws Hour 1 which had the company's biggest name in it coming off a title win from the previous night's PPV.

:walphtf


----------



## Scholes18

Brock is a draw but he isn’t a draw on Raw if that makes sense. Announcing that Brock Lesnar is going to be on Raw does absolutely nothing for viewers because the last 5 years he basically comes out, bounces around and lets Paul Heyman cut some variation of the same promo he’s done the last 5 years. You get nothing from a Brock appearance. At least if The Rock shows up you get a good promo, with Brock it’s nothing and the same old shit.

Having said that, Brock is still a PPV draw. He has a big fight, main event aura that no one else in the company does. His matches always feel special even though like his Raw appearances you know what to expect.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> When Hour 3 outdraws Hour 1 which had the company's biggest name in it coming off a title win from the previous night's PPV.
> 
> :walphtf


Not that it had anything to do with Brock (although the news of a title change spreading might have contributed), but the show building on their audience from the start instead of the opposite is actually a good thing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> Not that it had anything to do with Brock (although the news of a title change spreading might have contributed), but the show building on their audience from the start instead of the opposite is actually a good thing.


It could be. That's not the point people in this thread have been arguing for weeks/months now.


----------



## SPCDRI

Showstopper said:


> When Hour 3 outdraws Hour 1 which had the company's biggest name in it coming off a title win from the previous night's PPV.
> 
> :walphtf


Hour 2 had Bray Wyatt, it also had Carmella in a 25 minute long match. So Brock being around didn't do dick.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> It could be. That's not the point people in this thread have been arguing for weeks/months now.


A show that builds audience from the start is unquestionably part of a winning recipe. The other big part is making that starting hour better and better as you go. And sure that’s the hard part. But, you can’t have every Raw be the night after a PPV and you can’t have every Raw follow a title change. Monday was a gimme for them. The trick is to do it on the nights not following a PPV and / or a title change and that’s where they will fail.

At this point Brock should be an attraction, not a regular or even a semi regular. People complain that he’s not around enough when the truth is he’s around too much. But he’s all they have so they will go back to that well over and over as long as the networks are breathing down their necks.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Brock IS a big star. That isn't the problem. The guy has name recognition and has more than earned his spot in WWE.

The problem with Brock is that his novelty has worn off and this is now the 3rd? 4th? time they've done the thing where he wins the title and dominates everyone, and it's been half a decade of this crap. Even when he loses, they find a way to get the belt back on him. 

Hogan was and always will be a big star, but there was a period in late 90's WCW when it was clearly not enough because he'd been on top for too long and they didn't successfully transition to the other WCW stars that needed to be on top after he built the foundation. 

Brock was originally supposed to be the guy that destroyed Cena and put Reigns over to pass the torch, and we've long since passed that purpose he once served. And he's beaten everyone. And he's been beaten. And he's beaten the guys who've beaten him back. Brock is one giant dead end for WWE at this point.

If Heyman is actually going to do something positive for WWE, he had better have singled out that guy who's going to beat Brock and he'd better be implementing that plan to promote that match and use Brock to create a star, because that's Brock's only use now. But even then, Seth beat Brock at Mania and look where that got him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> A show that builds audience from the start is unquestionably part of a winning recipe. The other big part is making that starting hour better and better as you go. And sure that’s the hard part. But, you can’t have every Raw be the night after a PPV and you can’t have every Raw follow a title change. Monday was a gimme for them. The trick is to do it on the nights not following a PPV and / or a title change and that’s where they will fail.
> 
> At this point Brock should be an attraction, not a regular or even a semi regular. People complain that he’s not around enough when the truth is he’s around too much. But he’s all they have so they will go back to that well over and over as long as the networks are breathing down their necks.


There is no winning recipe here, and this rating this past week proved that. It flopped just like everything and everyone else has for years now in WWE.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> There is no winning recipe here, and this rating this past week proved that. It flopped just like everything and everyone else has for years now in WWE.


WWE showed they could go in the right direction early last year and actually increase viewership YoY. Which was great timing because it played a big role in wwe getting those big contracts. But they could only sustain it for a matter of months. So apparently there is a recipe that can work for them. They just have the wrong ingredients and wrong chef right now.



Mifune Jackson said:


> Brock IS a big star. That isn't the problem. The guy has name recognition and has more than earned his spot in WWE.
> 
> The problem with Brock is that his novelty has worn off and this is now the 3rd? 4th? time they've done the thing where he wins the title and dominates everyone, and it's been half a decade of this crap. Even when he loses, they find a way to get the belt back on him.
> 
> Hogan was and always will be a big star, but there was a period in late 90's WCW when it was clearly not enough because he'd been on top for too long and they didn't successfully transition to the other WCW stars that needed to be on top after he built the foundation.
> 
> Brock was originally supposed to be the guy that destroyed Cena and put Reigns over to pass the torch, and we've long since passed that purpose he once served. And he's beaten everyone. And he's been beaten. And he's beaten the guys who've beaten him back. Brock is one giant dead end for WWE at this point.
> 
> If Heyman is actually going to do something positive for WWE, he had better have singled out that guy who's going to beat Brock and he'd better be implementing that plan to promote that match and use Brock to create a star, because that's Brock's only use now. But even then, Seth beat Brock at Mania and look where that got him.


You’re right. There is no story to tell with Brock at this point. I still say they should have had him destroy Kofi and try to bring back prestige to that belt instead of unseating Seth.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> WWE showed they could go in the right direction early last year and actually increase viewership YoY. Which was great timing because it played a big role in wwe getting those big contracts. But they could only sustain it for a matter of months. So apparently there is a recipe that can work for them. They just have the wrong ingredients and wrong chef right now.
> 
> 
> 
> You’re right. There is no story to tell with Brock at this point. I still say they should have had him destroy Kofi and try to bring back prestige to that belt instead of unseating Seth.


They need to improve year on year for an entire year, not just a couple of months out of the year. They don't have anyone on the roster or anyone running things that is going to achieve that anytime soon.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

BROOOOOCK LESNAR isn't a draw. That's it. It's done. *Finished.* People said put the belt on Lesnar so a star can save the show.

Low ratings for his ANNOUNCED 1st hour appearance. 

Not even a TOP 5 merchandise seller (now maybe if he turned face, it'd be different) 

Losing subscribers even though he's the main eventer for all the big shows. 

I'm one of the biggest Brock marks on this website but he's not a draw. It's done. Move on. 

So why is he champion? Bray Wyatt, for EVERY push he's had, has coincided with a ratings bump. At least for his Smackdown run.

His 2nd hour was rated higher than Brock's. And the word of mouth and social media engagement from his debut led to even higher ratings in hour 3. He literally OUTDREW Brock.

Y'all can run in this thread and bitch and moan the usual

Bray wyatT iS FAt hE alwaYs loSes I dON'T LiKE His pANTs

But the FACT is that fans are more excited for Bray right now and more likely to tune in with him as champ. Likewise Drake Maverick and R-Truth have earned PUSHES too 

There needs to be a paradigm shift. This Brock vs SHIELD shit ain't it chief and after allllllll the people celebrating Brock's win like he was gonna save the company, it's clearer than ever that he's stale and that nobody gives a SHIT

Put the belt on Bray Wyatt IMMEDIATELY. Summerslam. 1-2-3 finished


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Hey!! the ratings nick name only belongs to Mark Henry.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Because Vince doesn’t like fat guys. 

Wyatt doesn’t even get the 50:50 treatment. He’s lost like 70% of his matches in WWE.


----------



## ClintDagger

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> BROOOOOCK LESNAR isn't a draw. That's it. It's done. *Finished.* People said put the belt on Lesnar so a star can save the show.
> 
> Low ratings for his ANNOUNCED 1st hour appearance.
> 
> Not even a TOP 5 merchandise seller (now maybe if he turned face, it'd be different)
> 
> Losing subscribers even though he's the main eventer for all the big shows.
> 
> I'm one of the biggest Brock marks on this website but he's not a draw. It's done. Move on.
> 
> So why is he champion? Bray Wyatt, for EVERY push he's had, has coincided with a ratings bump. At least for his Smackdown run.
> 
> His 2nd hour was rated higher than Brock's. And the word of mouth and social media engagement from his debut led to even higher ratings in hour 3. He literally OUTDREW Brock.
> 
> Y'all can run in this thread and bitch and moan the usual
> 
> Bray wyatT iS FAt hE alwaYs loSes I dON'T LiKE His pANTs
> 
> But the FACT is that fans are more excited for Bray right now and more likely to tune in with him as champ. Likewise Drake Maverick and R-Truth have earned PUSHES too
> 
> There needs to be a paradigm shift. This Brock vs SHIELD shit ain't it chief and after allllllll the people celebrating Brock's win like he was gonna save the company, it's clearer than ever that he's stale and that nobody gives a SHIT
> 
> Put the belt on Bray Wyatt IMMEDIATELY. Summerslam. 1-2-3 finished


I didn’t really see anyone saying put the belt on Brock. There was a ton of people saying Seth & Kofi were failures but the direction to go in from there ranged from Corbin, to Joe, to Bray, to Braun, etcetera. Brock was pretty much seen as having more value getting away from Seth.

With that said, I think Bray going straight to a feud with Seth for the belt would have made a lot more sense than going back to Brock. Put Brock on SD and have him win the WWE Title and feud with New Day or something.


----------



## American_Nightmare

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

What ratings has Bray Wyatt brought in?


----------



## The Sheik

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Didn't they try putting the WWE Title on him a couple years ago? It flopped.

I'm sure it would flop again, because you know, it's WWE.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



The Sheik said:


> Didn't they try putting the WWE Title on him a couple years ago? It flopped.
> 
> I'm sure it would flop again, because you know, it's WWE.


It didn't flop, it wasn't even given a chance. They decided when he won it it was only for a month, because Orton was given a title reign at WrestleMania so he wouldn't sue Vince for Vince ordering Lesnar to bust him open hard way which gave him a concussion. He could've taken them to court and won easily, so they gave him a WrestleMania push and Bray was a fall guy. And they deliberately made it as bad as they possibly could, like when they put maggots on the mat, and when they did a match in a haunted house, just so people wanted Bray gone from the main event and it wouldn't get him even more over, because they didn't want a groundswell.

There has never been a serious attempt to push Bray Wyatt, outside of when he was getting built up to be fed to John Cena, and that was the absolute best and stablest the WWE product has been in years.

So, the answer to the question? Because Vince is dumb. He doesn't like fat guys, he doesn't like charismatic guys, he doesn't like guys who can talk. Bray Wyatt is everything as a performer that he's against. He's never going to get a fair shake in this company. It's a miracle he's not Japanese like Asuka and is fluent in English or he'd have been fired by now, I have no doubt.

He should absolutely be beating Brock at SummerSlam. WWE doesn't know how to ride the hot hand. At all.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Mifune Jackson said:


> But even then, Seth beat Brock at Mania and look where that got him.


It matters in the way someone beats Brock:

• Seth needed a low blow to turn the tide against Brock 
• Roman needed Braun's distraction in more ways than one
• Taker won with controversy at Summerslam 2015

Even the Goldberg win was treated like a bad day at the office for Brock. For someone to truly get the rub from beating Brock they need to do it so convincingly that both Brock and Heyman are speechless in the aftermath — possibly even giving their stamp of approval after the match.

There's three options I see:

• Bray Wyatt
• Matt Riddle
• Aleister Black


----------



## arch.unleash

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Because he's talented? SO FUCKING talented?


----------



## SPCDRI

Mifune Jackson said:


> Brock was originally supposed to be the guy that destroyed Cena and put Reigns over to pass the torch


They had 5 years to figure out how to do that, but the answer is, the promotion doesn't think any Shield members are better than Brock Lesnar and didn't understand his purpose. His purpose over the past 5 years was to put a Shield member over the top as the company's next focal point top piece ala John Cena. It didn't need to be that extent, but they needed a Cena replacement. The thing is, NO SHIELD MEMBERS HAVE GOTTEN A DEFINITIVE WIN ON LESNAR. All of them to some extent, have gotten piping hot ass beating from him. This is Brock Lesnar's 4th title run in 5 years and he's been the top title holder in the company for almost 1000 days now. He's been the top champion for more days than every member of a top piece power trio COLLECTIVELY in their whole careers. 

He had one job: Job to a Shield member. WWE wouldn't do it, Brock wouldn't do it. What's the result? Now not a single one of the Shield members is a bonafide, Made Man, torch-carrying star. Look at Rollins. Rollins just had a flop run because for all the pretenses of "slaying the beast," they booked the WM match as a fuckery opener. Reigns is nowhere near as popular as he's been in the past, and along the way, Samoa Joe is in the wreckage, AJ Styles is in the wreckage, Braun Strowman looked like a BITCH by being involved with Lesnar, he didn't get anybody over except himself...and the thing is, he's not even that over! He's not really moving tickets, moving merch, getting subscribers, getting television viewers, the Brock Lesnar shit didn't really even get BROCK LESNAR over. The last 5 years were a calamity for the promotion. 

Also, beefing with WWE over Brock Lesnar and Cena is why CM Punk isn't in the company anymore if you ask me. Disastrous to lose a guy of that caliber and for what? Nobody got over from it, not even Brock!


----------



## Mifune Jackson

The Boy Wonder said:


> It matters in the way someone beats Brock:
> 
> • Seth needed a low blow to turn the tide against Brock
> • Roman needed Braun's distraction in more ways than one
> • Taker won with controversy at Summerslam 2015
> 
> Even the Goldberg win was treated like a bad day at the office for Brock. For someone to truly get the rub from beating Brock they need to do it so convincingly that both Brock and Heyman are speechless in the aftermath — possibly even giving their stamp of approval after the match.
> 
> There's three options I see:
> 
> • Bray Wyatt
> • Matt Riddle
> • Aleister Black


Very true, although Brock attacked Seth before the bell, so the low blow served more as an equalizer to Brock’s attempt to gain an unfair advantage and he still went down to the curb stomp. 

But yeah, mitigating factors in all three, some of which are Brock’s fault entirely.


Overall, WWE treating Brock as a sacred cow at the expense of the entire roster has been a huge problem. I’d argue, though, that it’s been so long that the feeling when it’s all said and done (if it ever will be, Brock may still be protected in the end) is going to be “Great, can we move on now?” than “That was AWESOME!”


----------



## SPCDRI

Mifune Jackson said:


> Very true, although Brock attacked Seth before the bell, so the low blow served more as an equalizer to Brock’s attempt to gain an unfair advantage and he still went down to the curb stomp.
> 
> But yeah, mitigating factors in all three, some of which are Brock’s fault entirely.
> 
> 
> Overall, WWE treating Brock as a sacred cow at the expense of the entire roster has been a huge problem. I’d argue, though, that it’s been so long that the feeling when it’s all said and done (if it ever will be, Brock may still be protected in the end) is going to be “Great, can we move on now?” than “That was AWESOME!”


I thought he might leave outright for a Cormier match but he snapped out of it. He couldn't get cleared for drug testing and Cormier would be an odds-on favorite to beat him and kill his mystique. So he's back for fat-ass paychecks to do nothing.


----------



## rexmundi

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

How did Bray "ratingz" wyatt do with all his Funhouse segments in hour 3?


----------



## ObsoleteMule

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Thinking about what Bray could have been will always break my heart. Dude never even had a chance and had all the potential in the world. Now the people have given up on him and pretend like he wasnt one of the brightest stars before he was ruined.


----------



## SPCDRI

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



ObsoleteMule said:


> Thinking about what Bray could have been will always break my heart. Dude never even had a chance and had all the potential in the world. Now the people have given up on him and pretend like he wasnt one of the brightest stars before he was ruined.


Bray/Finn as Fiend/Demon is a decent enough match, but imagine if the Fiend was the first full timer to beat Lesnar? In 15 minutes, clean as can be in the middle of the ring, 1-2-3. Book it as Bray getting the preponderance of the offense, psych people up into thinking he could be getting the megapush...then have Brock Lesnar as the UNDERNEATH GUY HEEL trying a comeback...That Bray shuts down to china-town, then hits him with the Sister Abigail for the 1-2-3. Paul Heyman is losing his mind on the outside, everybody's going crazy, Heyman doesn't really have full control of himself so he goes in the middle of the ring to console his slain giant...right into the clutches of the Fiend, another sister Abigail, 1-2-3. Heyman looking like he's DEAD! There's putting a guy over BIG TIME. And why even have Brock around if he's not gonna lay down for a full timer?

That's not going to happen, it either goes right back to Rollins or Lesnar has it until at least October. For the 5th year of Brock vs. Shield feeling like its going on its 50th.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> BROOOOOCK LESNAR isn't a draw. That's it. It's done. *Finished.* People said put the belt on Lesnar so a star can save the show.
> 
> Low ratings for his ANNOUNCED 1st hour appearance.
> 
> Not even a TOP 5 merchandise seller (now maybe if he turned face, it'd be different)
> 
> Losing subscribers even though he's the main eventer for all the big shows.
> 
> I'm one of the biggest Brock marks on this website but he's not a draw. It's done. Move on.
> 
> So why is he champion? Bray Wyatt, for EVERY push he's had, has coincided with a ratings bump. At least for his Smackdown run.
> 
> His 2nd hour was rated higher than Brock's. And the word of mouth and social media engagement from his debut led to even higher ratings in hour 3. He literally OUTDREW Brock.
> 
> Y'all can run in this thread and bitch and moan the usual
> 
> Bray wyatT iS FAt hE alwaYs loSes I dON'T LiKE His pANTs
> 
> But the FACT is that fans are more excited for Bray right now and more likely to tune in with him as champ. Likewise Drake Maverick and R-Truth have earned PUSHES too
> 
> There needs to be a paradigm shift. This Brock vs SHIELD shit ain't it chief and after allllllll the people celebrating Brock's win like he was gonna save the company, it's clearer than ever that he's stale and that nobody gives a SHIT
> 
> Put the belt on Bray Wyatt IMMEDIATELY. Summerslam. 1-2-3 finished


From the tone of your post I assume you like Bray Wyatt, yes? Why then would you want him representing this dying brand as one of it's major stars rather letting him be the hidden gem, never capitalised on, that can have a truly great career once his WWE contract is up and he can wrestle for a living.


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

This Fiend character may have just given me a reason to invest in Wyatt once more it's been so long since I've been entertained by him on the regular, A new darker gimmick layer is perfect for him to explore, Balor makes some sense to be his first victim as they never got to finish what they started in 2017 with their supernatural showdown at TLC, I'm still glad they didn't give us a crossdressing Sister Wyatt but now you can definitely have two monsters clash.

The Fiend vs The Demon=Entertainment.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

He hasn't even had a match back yet!!!!!1111


----------



## Bestiswaswillbe

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

I don't really see it. 

He looks like some Insane Clown Posse reject.

The way I see it, that gimmick will do nothing for ratings or get casuals to watch. If anything it will make people think wrestling is cornier than it already is.

Not trying to be negative because I do like Bray. But seriously? What do you do with this "fiend" character after the demon vs demon match? What is he going to do that we haven't seen a million times already with other "demonic" characters?

The only way I see this character working out is if he starts a faction again, because honestly that's the only way this character stays interesting or draws any ratings.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> They need to improve year on year for an entire year, not just a couple of months out of the year. They don't have anyone on the roster or anyone running things that is going to achieve that anytime soon.


There’s no doubt that the odds are heavily in favor of what you are saying.


----------



## Piers

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Bray's title run was weak because they didn't care. The same thing recently happened to Balor and the IC.

People shit on SAnitY when the guys just showed up for matches on Smackdown and didn't get any mic time or backstage segment.

At the end of the day, you can only do so much if you're given nothing to work with.


----------



## Hangman

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

:lmao

I'm sure painted up Balor and Bray in a dress are really going to draw the masses.

:heston


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Because he just made his first appearance?


----------



## umair007

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



Thumbinthebum said:


> From the tone of your post I assume you like Bray Wyatt, yes? Why then would you want him representing this dying brand as one of it's major stars rather letting him be the hidden gem, never capitalised on, that can have a truly great career once his WWE contract is up and he can wrestle for a living.


From the tone of your post, I assume you really think that it's AE Era's WWE vs WCW all over again but this time WWE is gonna die like WCW, yes?

Sent from my Infinix X510 using Tapatalk


----------



## bradatar

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

He literally JUST showed up is this thread serious


----------



## TripleG

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



bradatar said:


> He literally JUST showed up is this thread serious


Yeah...this. 

He just came back THIS WEEK! 

WHY IS HE NOT THE CHAMP?!!?!? BLAAAAAARG!!!!


----------



## Bryan Jericho

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Of everyone on the roster you wanna go with Bray Wyatt?! Bray Wyatt who was given a chance as WWE champion and was exposed for being worse than most ppl thought? That Bray Wyatt?! The guy is horrendous, and his mic "skills" are absolute trash. I have a long ass list to go with before Bray


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



bradatar said:


> He literally JUST showed up is this thread serious


We've had stars return after months and win the title immediately. Why the hell is this any different? He's the hottest character on the show right now. The hottest character should be the world champion.

In fact, in current WWE it's better to strike immediately when a character has momentum. The longer he's on the roster, the colder Vinces bad booking is going to make him. You've got to establish him as a headliner before Vince has the chance to bring him down, not after.

Believe me, the ratings aren't going to drop any more than they otherwise would (in fact, they'll probably go up because it's something different) if you put the title on a fresh character who just came back. It will be fine. Especially with what the alternatives are. Hell, they put the title on Balor within one month of him joining the roster and there wasn't a crash, and he isn't even close to being as good or as popular as Bray Wyatt.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> We've had stars return after months and win the title immediately. Why the hell is this any different? He's the hottest character on the show right now. The hottest character should be the world champion.
> 
> In fact, in current WWE it's better to strike immediately when a character has momentum. The longer he's on the roster, the colder Vinces bad booking is going to make him. You've got to establish him as a headliner before Vince has the chance to bring him down, not after.


I agree and wish he was immediately put into a title feud, but I think the hate the Balor feud is getting is a bit much. He is going to beat Balor as the demon. I don't care what anyone on here believes, but it is a BIG rub. I'd argue beating Finn as the demon is the one of the biggest kayfabe accomplishments you can have besides being a world champion or beating Bork. He is going to be in the title mix post Summerslam, watch.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



bradatar said:


> I agree and wish he was immediately put into a title feud, but I think the hate the Balor feud is getting is a bit much. He is going to beat Balor as the demon. I don't care what anyone on here believes, but it is a BIG rub. I'd argue beating Finn as the demon is the one of the biggest kayfabe accomplishments you can have besides being a world champion or beating Bork. He is going to be in the title mix post Summerslam, watch.


From what I've heard, Balor is not scheduled to be the Demon, he's scheduled to be just.....Balor. And no, beating Balor is not a big rub, Demon or otherwise. He needed to beat a star when he came back. You've entrenched him firmly in the midcard with this feud. Nobody cares about him beating a guy who loses all the time just because he wins the 1 time a year he wears some goofy paint. Not to mention the Demon has already lost in NXT, and yes, NXT and other shows do count towards your record besides Raw and SmackDown, as evidenced by their refusal to let Asuka lose anywhere but WrestleMania prior to breaking her streak.

And even if he's "in the title mix" post SummerSlam, it's not enough to be a contender. NOBODY is beating Brock Lesnar right now. Or Seth Rollins for that matter.....except Brock Lesnar. Being a contender will doom him, you need to put him above those guys. 

He can't start losing. He just can't. His character has always needed to be dominant to work. Once you start having him lose, then we're right back where we were before with him. This is a fresh start, he needs to win every match he's in for at least a year before putting over a new guy.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> From what I've heard, Balor is not scheduled to be the Demon, he's scheduled to be just.....Balor. And no, beating Balor is not a big rub, Demon or otherwise. He needed to beat a star when he came back. You've entrenched him firmly in the midcard with this feud. Nobody cares about him beating a guy who loses all the time just because he wins the 1 time a year he wears some goofy paint. Not to mention the Demon has already lost in NXT, and yes, NXT and other shows do count towards your record besides Raw and SmackDown, as evidenced by their refusal to let Asuka lose anywhere but WrestleMania prior to breaking her streak.
> 
> And even if he's "in the title mix" post SummerSlam, it's not enough to be a contender. NOBODY is beating Brock Lesnar right now. Or Seth Rollins for that matter.....except Brock Lesnar. Being a contender will doom him, you need to put him above those guys.
> 
> He can't start losing. He just can't. His character has always needed to be dominant to work. Once you start having him lose, then we're right back where we were before with him. This is a fresh start, he needs to win every match he's in for at least a year before putting over a new guy.


I wasn't happy with Finn being the first person to feud with, but gotta roll with it now. Since he started doing the funhouse skits I said literally the exact same thing you are now. He CAN NOT LOSE. He shouldn't even have competitive matches. If Finn really isn't coming out as the Demon then this is a HUGE missed opportunity to put Bray over. He better destroy normal Balor. He can't get 50/50 booking or the 'aura' behind the Fiend dies. If I was booking I would have him take out the entire roster and eventually take the belt off Brock. But I'm not and as you said, nobody is beating Bork. Curious to see how they book his match at SS. HE CAN'T SELL FOR FINN.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

In my opinion it’s not Seth or Brock’s fault or Becky’s fault or kofi’s fault, the product from top to bottom is just trash. In 1995 Bret and hbk were some of the lowest drawing champions in history yet this are 2 of the top 10 greatest in ring performers of all time. The product was trash then before the attitude era boom.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*



umair007 said:


> From the tone of your post, I assume you really think that it's AE Era's WWE vs WCW all over again but this time WWE is gonna die like WCW, yes?
> 
> Sent from my Infinix X510 using Tapatalk


I certainly hope so but nah, won't happen unfortunately, WWE will continue making record profits for the duration of their current tv deals then, when the ratings have dropped to below 1 million, limp on, moving to increasingly obscure channels (like TNA), slowly dragging the rest of the industry down with them.


----------



## Chelsea

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Bray vs. Drake vs. Truth for the Universal Championship at WrestleMania :cool2


----------



## ClintDagger

Tk Adeyemi said:


> In my opinion it’s not Seth or Brock’s fault or Becky’s fault or kofi’s fault, the product from top to bottom is just trash. In 1995 Bret and hbk were some of the lowest drawing champions in history yet this are 2 of the top 10 greatest in ring performers of all time. The product was trash then before the attitude era boom.


I think you hit the nail on the head without even realizing it. Bret and Shawn didn’t draw because they weren’t great promos and weren’t physically intimidating guys. Their strength was in-ring and that didn’t draw. Seth and Kofi are a poor man’s version of those guys.


----------



## Rain

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

So stupid this man should be getting Undertaker booking not Kane.


----------



## Loudness

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

Because despite his talent, he's a guy who has zero continuation and no room for continuation. Psychological horror doesn't fly well in an environment where people pretend to forget what happened every 2 weeks.


----------



## r055co

Wyatt in his current gimmick may be popping the ratings slightly but I suspect it’s only because it’s something new or different. However, something new or different doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good.

Maybe I’m wrong here and I’m sure anyone who was there live will tell me their side, but based on a video recording from the crowd that I saw on YouTube, Wyatt’s reaction was very lacklustre especially considering they’d be building up his return for so many weeks.

I expect him in this “Fiend” gimmick to fail spectacularly when he restarts his feud with Balor. It’s just going to be the same old boring empty threats Wyatt doing corny spooky shit but this time with a stupid Halloween mask on. 

Boring!


----------



## bradatar

*Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

Shanti.

https://www.ringsidenews.com/2019/0...-as-profitable-of-a-champion-as-jinder-mahal/












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

it could be because, and this is just a thought, he was feuding with RANDY ORTON and not BARON CORBIN.

correlation =/= causation


----------



## Piers

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

Define profitable.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

Ok, so more people came to house shows that Jinder was on than Rollins. First of all, it's not even that many fans difference. Secondly, it takes into account no other factors, like anyone else on the card, and only looks at the champion, but thirdly, and more importantly, when did WWE REALLY start having these problems with ratings and attendance and it became an issue that people started to talk about every week? Oh, right, when JINDER became the world champion.

Of course it's lower for Seth, because once you start the snowball rolling, it builds and builds and builds and goes further down the hill. You start giving people a shitty product, the effect starts, and if you don't fix it, it gets worse, even if you have a more capable champion. How about we compare Jinder to Seth Rollins when Seth was WWE champion, not Universal champion? :smile2:


----------



## Mr.Tweetums

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

I came to love Jinder as WWE champ, it seemed wonky at first but you could see him get more confident and more comfortable in his role every single week.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

But yet 2015 Rollins champion was more profitable than Jinder, so yea...

Think the line we gotta realise here in that the ratings are ever sinking, whoever the next champion is will have lower ratings than and profits than Rollins and so on and so forth.


----------



## UniversalGleam

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

had no issue with jinder being champ tbh. The big issue was wwe not building him at all, he just went from a jobber who lost every week to a guy who could defend a title for months. It made no logical sense at all.


----------



## Hangman

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

The trasharaja burying the world title was what started this downhill slide.


----------



## validreasoning

If this wasn't the "all indy, small wrestlers suck/vanilla midge" guy maybe I would trust source more.

Let him come on here and present detailed chart of every show in detail and where he got attendance figure from (I know he posts here) . Even he admits it's an estimate and Meltzers haven't been great lately

Are those numbers paid just or total in building because again Meltzer and a few others are mixing up two recently. What was price of ticket etc


----------



## bradatar

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> Ok, so more people came to house shows that Jinder was on than Rollins. First of all, it's not even that many fans difference. Secondly, it takes into account no other factors, like anyone else on the card, and only looks at the champion, but thirdly, and more importantly, when did WWE REALLY start having these problems with ratings and attendance and it became an issue that people started to talk about every week? Oh, right, when JINDER became the world champion.
> 
> Of course it's lower for Seth, because once you start the snowball rolling, it builds and builds and builds and goes further down the hill. You start giving people a shitty product, the effect starts, and if you don't fix it, it gets worse, even if you have a more capable champion. How about we compare Jinder to Seth Rollins when Seth was WWE champion, not Universal champion? :smile2:




Smackdown is a weaker brand then RAW. It wouldn’t be significant if we were comparing RAW to RAW. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*



bradatar said:


> Smackdown is a weaker brand then RAW. It wouldn’t be significant if we were comparing RAW to RAW.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is it really a weaker brand, though, in comparison to the times? This is Raw after 2 years of steep decline, not Raw compared to SmackDown in mid 2017. Not to mention, SmackDown didn't have the champion in an awful romance storyline with Becky, feuding with Baron Corbin and LACEY EVANS, the cricket whisperer of all fucking people on this planet. Also, this is Raw after a year of Brock Lesnar holding the world title off the air and never showing up, and Raw having NO MAIN EVENT. No wonder the metrics are down when you tell people the show doesn't matter.

Every year gets weaker too. Every year, because they have no commitment to improvement. No matter who is the champion. Jinder accelerated it rapidly, though, to the point where shit like this is happening.


----------



## validreasoning

bradatar said:


> Smackdown is a weaker brand then RAW. It wouldn’t be significant if we were comparing RAW to RAW.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Houseshows aren't given raw and SD designations though. Both are wwe live. Not sure I agree Orton and reigns both top 25 headlining guys on SD makes SD shows weaker https://www.wwe.com/events


----------



## Jersey

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

This gif is the answer to your question.


----------



## Shaun_27

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

His last world championship match at Wrestlemania was WOAT.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

bcos wwe gonna wwe. lexi could be facing becky for the most anticipated women's match in history but wwe creative is intent on making their product boring so went with natalya.


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Re: So why isn't Bray "RATINGZ" Wyatt the Universal Champion?*

I thought this guy was 'buried' for good when he made that "muscle man dance" video and now everyone here wants him to become a champion despite just making a one appearance?


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

Roman second reign > Seth's 1St. :reigns


----------



## #BestForBusiness

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

I preferred Seth a hell of a lot more when he was in the mid-card. His entire run as UV Champion has been nothing but a bore, and it certainly sent it into a spiral when they got Becky involved and formed 'The Men Power Couple' that they got going on.

His entire reign feels like he's only been feuding with Baron Corbin, I can't think of anyone else other than AJ Styles that he defended his title against. It's been that forgettable. I'm actually happy that Lesnar took the title off of him.


----------



## Soul Rex

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

Mah boy Roman selling dem tickets; THE BIG DAWG IS ALSO THE BIG DRAW, "he was never over" fuck that shit, you smarks and neckbeards can	hillip3 now.

You can swallow your shitty tastes and bow to the megadraw. :reigns2



Ok that was fun, but seriously some of these numbers seem pretty random, who is going to believe Swagger and The Miz were really that profilable by themselves?


----------



## Leon Knuckles

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*

*YOU CANT HINDER THE JINDER* :woo


----------



## llj

House shows is less specifically who's champion and who is most extensively featured. When Brock held the title for a year or more, it was Roman who was most advertised in these shows. During Jinder's reign there was still Cena for parts of it to help prop up numbers. 

On the RAW brand there isn't anyone on Cena level, let alone Roman for that matter. It's Becky, Seth, AJ and maybe Mysterio bringing up the rear. AJ missed time due to injuries so it's Becky and Seth who would be the backbone of those house show ads


----------



## The XL 2

Smackdown is a way weaker brand than Raw, this is fairly significant. Doesn't really surprise me tbh, Seth Rollins is an awful pro wrestler. Jinder was far from perfect, but played the heel well, looked like a million bucks, was a decent promo, and while his work wasn't amazing, he was actually working, which by default makes him a better worker than Seth Rollins and his bullshit video game matches. Also consider that Seth has had favorable booking for 6-7 years and Jinder had the belt thrown on him cold with the stigma of being a jobber before he won the belt and it makes this even more embarrassing.


----------



## IndustryPlant

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> Ok, so more people came to house shows that Jinder was on than Rollins. First of all, it's not even that many fans difference. Secondly, it takes into account no other factors, like anyone else on the card, and only looks at the champion, but thirdly, and more importantly, when did WWE REALLY start having these problems with ratings and attendance and it became an issue that people started to talk about every week? Oh, right, when JINDER became the world champion.
> 
> Of course it's lower for Seth, because once you start the snowball rolling, it builds and builds and builds and goes further down the hill. You start giving people a shitty product, the effect starts, and if you don't fix it, it gets worse, even if you have a more capable champion. How about we compare Jinder to Seth Rollins when Seth was WWE champion, not Universal champion? :smile2:


I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think both Rollins and Jinder suck but it's not fair to pinpoint Jinder's reign as the starting point of the mass decline in ratings that led to WWE pushing the panic button (it sure as hell didn't help matters, though). We can go all the way back to when they first moved to 3 hours and the third hour constantly lost viewers. But if you really want to point to a particular time when the viewership decreased rapidly (to the point of being >10% less than the previous year), it happened around 2015. That's when they went below 4 millions weekly and haven't been able to reach those numbers again.

In Rollins' defense, unlike Jinder, he wasn't treated like a complete joke and suddenly given a title run overnight just because he bulked up. That title run is one of the most mind boggling decisions WWE has made in the past decade and considering their track record, it says a lot.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jinder was a more profitable champion than Rollins*



bradatar said:


> Shanti.
> 
> https://www.ringsidenews.com/2019/0...-as-profitable-of-a-champion-as-jinder-mahal/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Kofi is way worse than both atm with something like 2,900... 

Regardless, whoever is champion will probably do worse.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151929570305695746


----------



## Ichigo87

What happened Lesnar marks? I thought Lesnar was a draw? Can we put that BS to rest now.


----------



## The XL 2

Kofi isn't amazing or anything, but he was kinda sorta hot and they botched it. The New Day gimmick and throwing pancakes and stupid shit like that isn't a main event gimmick. They should have slow burned a Big E heel turn, that way they could have gotten the New Day gimmick off of Kofi and had a possibly hot program in Kofi and Big E. But this is the WWE and they don't know what the fuck they're doing anymore. Again, I'm not a fan of Kofi, he's a lot better than Seth or Becky but he's still not a main eventer in my eyes, but they did seem to have something that they could have maybe ran with in the short term and they screwed it up. The only right thing they've done with his Title run is his strong booking, World Champs should be booked strong and he has been, it's helped get the career midcard stigma off of him a little bit, but with his silly gimmick and them doing everything else wrong it ultimately doesn't matter, he's damaged goods already.


----------



## raymond1985

Ichigo87 said:


> What happened Lesnar marks? I thought Lesnar was a draw? Can we put that BS to rest now.


Can we also put the BS to rest that Rollins is a draw? 

However one wants to spin his numbers as champion, whether house show or TV ratings, he's not performed well. At best, he's not a better draw than his peers. At worst, he's an anti-draw.

NwoWolfpacTV has provided a detailed breakdown of Rollins' house show numbers on his Twitter account. Even if we discount house shows during Jinder's title reign where Cena headlined, Jinder still drew a higher average than Rollins. Sure, business is arguably worse today than during Jinder's reign, but Rollins had the stronger RAW brand behind him during his reign. Again, at best, Jinder and Rollins performed equally as champions at the gate.


----------



## Ichigo87

raymond1985 said:


> Ichigo87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened Lesnar marks? I thought Lesnar was a draw? Can we put that BS to rest now.
> 
> 
> 
> Can we also put the BS to rest that Rollins is a draw?
> 
> However one wants to spin his numbers as champion, whether house show or TV ratings, he's not performed well. At best, he's not a better draw than his peers. At worst, he's an anti-draw.
> 
> NwoWolfpacTV has provided a detailed breakdown of Rollins' house show numbers on his Twitter account. Even if we discount house shows during Jinder's title reign where Cena headlined, Jinder still drew a higher average than Rollins. Sure, business is arguably worse today than during Jinder's reign, but Rollins had the stronger RAW brand behind him during his reign. Again, at best, Jinder and Rollins performed equally as champions at the gate.
Click to expand...

Who the hell said Rollins was a draw? Are we going to pretend there was as many people saying Rollins is a draw as there were people saying Lesnar is a draw? The point is no one is a draw so they may as well build up current stars instead of relying on old ones. Everyone was fine with Lesnar being Superman and justified it with "well he's legit, he's a draw". Now theres no stars because WWE won't let anyone straight up beat him.


----------



## raymond1985

Ichigo87 said:


> Who the hell said Rollins was a draw? Are we going to pretend there was as many people saying Rollins is a draw as there were people saying Lesnar is a draw? The point is no one is a draw so they may as well build up current stars instead of relying on old ones. Everyone was fine with Lesnar being Superman and justified it with "well he's legit, he's a draw". Now theres no stars because WWE won't let anyone straight up beat him.


For years many claimed that Rollins should be the face of the company. For years many claimed he would do well as the face of the company. 

Hasn't happened has it? 

As for Brock, no he isn't a draw at this time. But he's still a more credible and believable champion than Rollins.


----------



## Dr. Jones

They both shouldn't be champion. The numbers for hour 1 of last week (when it was pretty much a given that Brock/Heyman would be out to gloat about the title win) were the lowest rated of the whole show. That NEVER happens. 

I guarantee you a solid portion of WWE's fanbase saw Brock win the belt and knew they'd be in for months of having no champion on the show. They've seen this bullshit for several years now. It's not enticing to watch Brock show up once every two months and bounce around/smile in the ring while Heyman cuts the same fucking promo he has done for what seems like 5 years now. 

Rollins was failing hard as champion, I don't think anyone can really debate that.

Corbin or Braun should've gotten the belt. I doubt numbers would've gone up, but at least there would be interest


----------



## ClintDagger

Ichigo87 said:


> What happened Lesnar marks? I thought Lesnar was a draw? Can we put that BS to rest now.


I don’t think anyone has claimed Brock is a huge draw for a long, long time. WWE intentionally gave him bad heat in the Roman feud and that squeezed out any juice he had left in him. Brock is starpower in a way but he’s not the right guy to be champion and he’s only a real difference maker in the eyes of the networks.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Predictions for ratings?

Was chatting with someone who work for the E and they are expecting 3.5 Million and are hoping for over 4 Million. I expect a little over 3M.


----------



## bradatar

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Predictions for ratings?
> 
> Was chatting with someone who work for the E and they are expecting 3.5 Million and are hoping for over 4 Million. I expect a little over 3M.


3.1 hour 1
2.8 hour 2
2.65 hour 3

im going bold.

That show sucked ass.


----------



## A-C-P

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Predictions for ratings?
> 
> Was chatting with someone who work for the E and they are expecting 3.5 Million and are hoping for over 4 Million. I expect a little over 3M.












I'd be surprised if they got that big a bump


----------



## YoUAiNtWoRtHiT

I wasn't one of the suckers who tuned in last night. Raw 25 taught me a lesson after not watching for more than 2 years.


----------



## bradatar

YoUAiNtWoRtHiT said:


> I wasn't one of the suckers who tuned in last night. Raw 25 taught me a lesson after not watching for more than 2 years.


I watch either way, but you were smart. This was even worse then the normal garbage which I didn't think was possible. I was genuinely disappointed when I went to sleep after whatever that was last night.


----------



## Zappers

Asking a serious question.

Imho, the segment with Austin was excellent. No wrestling of course , but I liked what he said, whatever... thought the segment was really good. Now if the ratings aren't good or just a slight bump during the part he was on on. What are the people that have been trashing WWE and the ratings going to say? Austin was advertised for an entire week. He's basically bulletproof royalty in the WWE. What happens if that hour/segment gets a 3.00?

My point being, been saying it for a long time. Gonna be rare to see a 5.0 or 6.0 ever again, maybe 4.0. Even that's a stretch. It's a different world now folks. Wrestling is still big, but this is not the 90's. Too much on TV, Streaming services, video games, dvrs, phones. People just don't watch TV like they used too. Simple as that. 2.50 - 3.00 weekly share range, still number one show in their demo. Be happy with that.


----------



## TKOW

Zappers said:


> Asking a serious question.
> 
> Imho, the segment with Austin was excellent. No wrestling of course , but I liked what he said, whatever... thought the segment was really good. Now if the ratings aren't good or just a slight bump during the part he was on on. What are the people that have been trashing WWE and the ratings going to say? Austin was advertised for an entire week. He's basically bulletproof royalty in the WWE. What happens if that hour/segment gets a 3.00?
> 
> My point being, been saying it for a long time. Gonna be rare to see a 5.0 or 6.0 ever again, maybe 4.0. Even that's a stretch. It's a different world now folks. Wrestling is still big, but this is not the 90's. Too much on TV, Streaming services, video games, dvrs, phones. People just don't watch TV like they used too. Simple as that. 2.50 - 3.00 weekly share range, still number one show in their demo. Be happy with that.



You're right, the world has changed but I don't believe that's why people aren't tuning in. People aren't tuning in because the product sucks and nothing matters.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Raw's 25th Anniversary show demonstrated that they can draw 4.5 million people if they actually do a show people want to see. Maybe it would be lower now, like 4 million, but that appears to be the range for the ceiling.

I mean, imagine if the show was actually good. They've traded a great show that'll draw great ratings with peaks and valleys for one long gigantic declining valley over time.


----------



## SPCDRI

I think one of the hours will be above 4 million viewers. Does it merit that on terms of quality? I don't think so, it was a pretty rancid show for me, but they brought back every big timer they could think of apart from The Rock and John Cena and the McMahons being back to eat some stunners, the show was about as packed as WWE could have made it with nostalgia.


----------



## Zappers

Kingpin said:


> You're right, the world has changed but I don't believe that's why people aren't tuning in. People aren't tuning in because the product sucks and nothing matters.


So because I didn't really see a solution in your post or another reason besides the standard response "product sucks". 

What exactly would be a good number ratings wise in today's world. If the show was top notch, product is excellent. Doesn't suck. Give me the average rating the show would have to pull in on a weekly basis, that you would personal say. Hey, WWE is running on full steam right now. Excellent product. Go.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Last night's Raw Reunion ratings:

Hour 1: 3.019
Hour 2: 3.178
Hour 3: 3.083

Average: 3.093 million

There you have it. Higher than usual for sure. But even with no competition last night (no NBA or NFL) and with the two biggest draws of all time (Austin and Hogan), they pretty much top out at 3 million.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Showstopper said:


> Last night's Raw Reunion ratings:
> 
> Hour 1: 3.019
> Hour 2: 3.178
> Hour 3: 3.083
> 
> Average: 3.093 million
> 
> There you have it. Higher than usual for sure. But even with no competition last night (no NBA or NFL) and with the two biggest draws of all time (Austin and Hogan), they pretty much top out at 3 million.


Geez. Even if they got The Rock, I doubt they'd get much higher than 3.5 million.

Imagine how this will play out after being on Fox for a few months and doing absolutely nothing but relying on old stars for ratings.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Wow. That's pretty much the highest rating they can get too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This number is only a 20% increase from last week, too, which was just a regular run-of-the-mill Raw.


----------



## rexmundi

This is okay but shows how much viewer interest has waned since RAW 25. I think that that show drew 4.8 in the first hour, maybe 4.6 in the second and over 4 in he third. If wwe goes this route again, the returns will be diminished even more. 

The bigger problem for wwe is that they wasted this opportunity. Their biggest audience in a while and they did little to generate interest for next week's raw. Gonna love that % drop next week. :banderas


----------



## patpat

Wtf?....its a disaster...
Stop folks it's a show with fucking Austin flair Hogan, it's a nostalgia show. This number is pathetic....at least 4 millions would have been decent


----------



## Chrome

rexmundi said:


> This is okay but shows how much viewer interest has waned since RAW 25. I think that that show drew 4.8 in the first hour, maybe 4.6 in the second and over 4 in he third. If wwe goes this route again, the returns will be diminished even more.
> 
> The bigger problem for wwe is that they wasted this opportunity. Their biggest audience in a while and they did little to generate interest for next week's raw. Gonna love that % drop next week. :banderas


The show was ass so I imagine the drop will be pretty big next week.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

They're so fucked this fall. Sub-2m is a lock before the end of the year.


----------



## A-C-P

Wonder how this will be addressed on the call Thursday :heston


----------



## Mifune Jackson

A-C-P said:


> Wonder how this will be addressed on the call Thursday :heston


"We're holding steady and everything's going to change once we debut on Fox" is going to be the line, probably.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Here's the chart. They did win the night and topped the two key demo's and viewers, to be fair, but considering all of the draws on the show..:


----------



## llj

Barely 3m. Should have been 4, maybe even 3.5. Even Austin and Hogan can't make people watch this drek


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Showstopper said:


> Here's the chart. They did win the night and topped the two key demo's and viewers, to be fair, but considering all of the draws on the show..:


There's really nothing on TV anymore is there? That list just shows being the most watched program means nothing now. Yikes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> There's really nothing on TV anymore is there? That list just shows being the most watched program means nothing now. Yikes.


Nothing but trash on these days for the most part.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

A-C-P said:


> Wonder how this will be addressed on the call Thursday :heston


They won't.

They'll use their youtube numbers to spin this quarter as a success. "Our youtube videos have reached almost 9 million in views, showing us how successful our new championship has been."

They'll also use some of the magazines that their stars have been on - like Becky Lynch or whoever.

I would be very surprised if they addressed the ratings again. This was the last show where they would've used the numbers to spin as successful. It's been anything but that :lmao


----------



## bradatar

Hah I called the high. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ClintDagger

I’m actually surprised they did over 3MM. Most of the people that have left in the last year didn’t do so temporarily. They were simply done. Just because their ceiling 1.5 years ago was 4.5 million is meaningless. They’ve just gone through the worst 1 year stretch of their history, especially the last 6 months. I think it’s no surprise at all that 1.5 million have left for good.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Showstopper said:


> Here's the chart. They did win the night and topped the two key demo's and viewers, to be fair, but considering all of the draws on the show..:


It's so sad seeing how the show Cops has regressed in the last decade. :mj2


----------



## Jonhern

rexmundi said:


> This is okay but shows how much viewer interest has waned since RAW 25. I think that that show drew 4.8 in the first hour, maybe 4.6 in the second and over 4 in he third. If wwe goes this route again, the returns will be diminished even more.
> 
> The bigger problem for wwe is that they wasted this opportunity. Their biggest audience in a while and they did little to generate interest for next week's raw. Gonna love that % drop next week. :banderas


To be fair raw25 was advertised for a couple of months at least, this was a last minute thing in comparison. 

I choose to catch up on the G1 last night, was not disappointed.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wow, I genuinely believe that this will be the last time we'll ever see Raw get over 3 million viewers in a LONG time :damn


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> It's so sad seeing how the show Cops has regressed in the last decade. :mj2


It's all about LivePD these days.


----------



## Jonhern

Zappers said:


> So because I didn't really see a solution in your post or another reason besides the standard response "product sucks".
> 
> What exactly would be a good number ratings wise in today's world. If the show was top notch, product is excellent. Doesn't suck. Give me the average rating the show would have to pull in on a weekly basis, that you would personal say. Hey, WWE is running on full steam right now. Excellent product. Go.


The total viewers doesn't really matter to them or the network. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how ratings work. I think fox and USA will be fine if they get back to the rating they were averageing when the contracts were negotiated, around 1.0 or higher. At the end of the day wwe is still a good value to them with the costs per hour relative to the ratings they get compared to other scripted shows.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> It's so sad seeing how the show Cops has regressed in the last decade. :mj2


Yeah, man. Watch Live PD on A&E. I watch it occasionally when I'm bored and have a free moment, and it's pretty good. It's definitely replaced COPS as the Cop show on TV to watch.


----------



## IndustryPlant

I just knew 4 million was being too optimistic. And to think this is the highest numbers they can reach, things will get ugly moving forward! Other than The Rock, they don't even have any other quick fix either lol.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Good news is, the ratings were up. Bad news is, that many more people have now seen how badly the product absolutely SUCKS. :batista3


----------



## ClintDagger

IndustryPlant said:


> I just knew 4 million was being too optimistic. And to think this is the highest numbers they can reach, things will get ugly moving forward! Other than The Rock, they don't even have any other quick fix either lol.


I think Austin is a bigger draw than the Rock at this point unless Rock comes back for an actual feud which I think is a real long shot. People know they will get safe, not controversial Rock. With Austin, he’s still watered down but not as much as Rock.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Vince announces their results on Thursday, so I believe WWE just squeaked this monster episode in just before the wire, so he could talk about hope, and not despair.


----------



## kingnoth1n

Hogan and Austin bringing in the ratings again Oh hell yeah brothers!!!


----------



## rbl85

The problem with those shows is that they don't give the desire to watch the show the Week after.


----------



## bradatar

Mifune Jackson said:


> It's all about LivePD these days.




The college ones are great 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kingnoth1n

rbl85 said:


> The problem with those shows is that they don't give the desire to watch the show the Week after.



In my opinion you are wrong here brother, it puts more eyes on the product so current talent needs to really step up their game when they do get TV time, and the diminishing return won't be absolutely terrible the FOLLOWING week, so they *really really* need to shine then, because if they don't, rest assured the week after people will tune out.

We will see that trend in the next few weeks. I def won't watch next week but will look at the ratings...I expect the ratings to trend the way I just said to be honest.

Would have been nice if they would have saved the Lashley/Strowman stunt for after this show. Would have had more people interested probably.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Even with the bump, that's an atrocious rating.

Even more atrocious in that no one had the competence to use the bump as a catapult for a big angle, instead, they made the majority of their current stars afterthoughts.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3 mils is a better number than the show after Wrestlemania. Proving once again that Legends will draw, and today's geeks won't.


----------



## Randy Lahey

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> There's really nothing on TV anymore is there? That list just shows being the most watched program means nothing now. Yikes.


There's nothing on cable TV. Network TV still draws huge numbers for various shows.

I really doubt any taped show on TBS, TNT, Discovery, History Channel will ever outdraw a live show (be it sports, wrestling, or news).


----------



## TheLooseCanon

People rather see retired stars than flipper champs.

Same company as last week, so it isn't creative that are turning people away. It's the people on the show.


----------



## SPCDRI

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Even with the bump, that's an atrocious rating.
> 
> Even more atrocious in that no one had the competence to use the bump as a catapult for a big angle, instead, they made the majority of their current stars afterthoughts.


They do a bunch of bells and whistles stuff to pop the viewership by over 600,000 people, and every hour is just barely above 3 million viewers. 

3 years ago, the third week of July had the McMahons announce general managers for the brands before the draft and had a Rollins/Ambrose title match. Fairly big stuff, but nothing too crazy. 

Hour one: 3.20 million
Hour two: 3.23 million
Hour three: 2.96 million

Hours 1 and 2 had more viewers than any hour tonight. It was the same for the whole year of 2016, comparable to superior viewership every hour on do-nothing RAWs.


----------



## Chan Hung

Low 3s? Okay so they did better...but.... investors are not going to be stupid to say oh yes they jumped high one week so they're suddenly becoming good I bet you guys anything next Monday goes back down to the twos mid to low


----------



## SPCDRI

"Ah, I'm past it! I don't understand the business anymore, what's hip, what's cool. You guys figure it out! I'm old and out of touch!"-Vince McMahon in the mid 1990s

"I know what you want more than you know what you want"-73 year old VKM

The 1980s and 1990s in American wrestling was like the 1960s and 1970s in music. 

"Ah, what do I know what draws anymore? I'm an old coot in my 50s and 60s. You guys figure it out, if it sells, it sells."


----------



## henrymark

....

Next week's fall is gonna be interesting


----------



## llj

ClintDagger said:


> I think Austin is a bigger draw than the Rock at this point unless Rock comes back for an actual feud which I think is a real long shot. People know they will get safe, not controversial Rock. With Austin, he’s still watered down but not as much as Rock.


The wrestling smarks maybe, but Rock is a bonafide movie star though, which will still draw the casuals who necessarily don't care about eras.


----------



## A-C-P

InexorableJourney said:


> Vince announces their results on Thursday, so I believe WWE just squeaked this monster episode in just before the wire, so he could talk about hope, and not despair.


That is exactly the reason they did the Reunion show this Monday, it wasn't jsut a random choice.

Problem is they were expecting 3.5 million and hoping maybe even over 4 million.


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> The wrestling smarks maybe, but Rock is a bonafide movie star though, which will still draw the casuals who necessarily don't care about eras.


Rock is definitely a 1000x more mainstream than Austin but I still maintain Austin would spike the ratings of Raw more than The Rock would (all things being equal). But, it’s an impossible thing to know for sure I suppose.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

The Rock's previous appearances prove that he's a serious draw for ratings, but even then, I don't think he breaks 4 million (which would be a miracle for WWE at this point).


----------



## Jonhern

A-C-P said:


> That is exactly the reason they did the Reunion show this Monday, it wasn't jsut a random choice.
> 
> Problem is they were expecting 3.5 million and hoping maybe even over 4 million.


The earnings are for last quarter which ended in June, these numbers won't help those. Plus it was reportedly USA that asked them to do this to boost ratings, not wwes idea to begin with.


----------



## TKOW

Zappers said:


> So because I didn't really see a solution in your post or another reason besides the standard response "product sucks".
> 
> What exactly would be a good number ratings wise in today's world. If the show was top notch, product is excellent. Doesn't suck. Give me the average rating the show would have to pull in on a weekly basis, that you would personal say. Hey, WWE is running on full steam right now. Excellent product. Go.



I'm not going to give you an average rating, but they could be doing a hell of a lot better if they proved to their audience as well as the casual viewer that the product was exciting to watch on a consistent basis.


----------



## Zappers

Kingpin said:


> I'm not going to give you an average rating, but they could be doing a hell of a lot better if they proved to their audience as well as the casual viewer that the product was exciting to watch on a consistent basis.


Not going to give me an average rating? Then how can you justify if the show is doing well or not? Isn't that the whole point of this/these threads. People come in here to bash and to laugh at the ratings and use those ratings to say WWE sucks and Vince sucks, and the writers suck, etc...

I'll tell you why you won't. Imo, if they ever hit that mark in the ratings, then people wouldn't have anything to complain about and these threads wouldn't exist. The show this Monday did a 3 share basically. Again said it a thousand times , no matter how good the product is, pulling numbers like the RAW/Nitro wars is a very slim chance to ever be seen again. TV is just not built like that anymore. People also forget, that back then, Internet and gossip rags were not even relevant. Nobody knew anything. You tuned in each week, and watched the stories unfold. Now, if for example, a wrestler gets fired or gets called up from NXT, or all that behind the scene stuff. Audiences know about it. There's zero surprise. It's like we have the script each week. 

Current example. Everyone and their mother is hearing about Charlotte vs Trish at SS. (nothing confirmed of course) Years ago, you would never hear any of that. You heard it when it was officially announced TV. It was "must see TV" Don't watch, you missed out. Now, if you don't watch, come to this forum(and others), go to the WWE youtube pages, fire up twitter/instagram of any WWE wrestler, and tons of other avenues.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> Not going to give me an average rating? Then how can you justify if the show is doing well or not? Isn't that the whole point of this/these threads. People come in here to bash and to laugh at the ratings and use those ratings to say WWE sucks and Vince sucks, and the writers suck, etc...
> 
> I'll tell you why you won't. Imo, if they ever hit that mark in the ratings, then people wouldn't have anything to complain about and these threads wouldn't exist. The show this Monday did a 3 share basically. Again said it a thousand times , no matter how good the product is, pulling numbers like the RAW/Nitro wars is a very slim chance to ever be seen again. TV is just not built like that anymore. People also forget, that back then, Internet and gossip rags were not even relevant. Nobody knew anything. You tuned in each week, and watched the stories unfold. Now, if for example, a wrestler gets fired or gets called up from NXT, or all that behind the scene stuff. Audiences know about it. There's zero surprise. It's like we have the script each week.
> 
> Current example. Everyone and their mother is hearing about Charlotte vs Trish at SS. (nothing confirmed of course) Years ago, you would never hear any of that. You heard it when it was officially announced TV. It was "must see TV" Don't watch, you missed out. Now, if you don't watch, come to this forum(and others), go to the WWE youtube pages, fire up twitter/instagram of any WWE wrestler, and tons of other avenues.


The static rating isn’t the issue, it’s the trend. If they were treading water at 2MM to 3MM and only dropping a percent or 2 a year it wouldn't be a hot topic. But when you can measure year over year drops in the hundreds of thousands and in the 20%-ish level (sometimes way more) then it becomes an issue. Especially when these networks paid huge for the future of a product that was producing X at the time of negotiation and now it’s producing .80X and dropping.

You especially can’t blame the people in this thread for seeing viewership as a major concern when NBCU and Fox feel the same way.


----------



## TKOW

Zappers said:


> Not going to give me an average rating? Then how can you justify if the show is doing well or not? Isn't that the whole point of this/these threads. People come in here to bash and to laugh at the ratings and use those ratings to say WWE sucks and Vince sucks, and the writers suck, etc...
> 
> 
> I'll tell you why you won't. Imo, if they ever hit that mark in the ratings, then people wouldn't have anything to complain about and these threads wouldn't exist. The show this Monday did a 3 share basically. Again said it a thousand times , no matter how good the product is, pulling numbers like the RAW/Nitro wars is a very slim chance to ever be seen again. TV is just not built like that anymore. People also forget, that back then, Internet and gossip rags were not even relevant. Nobody knew anything. You tuned in each week, and watched the stories unfold. Now, if for example, a wrestler gets fired or gets called up from NXT, or all that behind the scene stuff. Audiences know about it. There's zero surprise. It's like we have the script each week.
> 
> Current example. Everyone and their mother is hearing about Charlotte vs Trish at SS. (nothing confirmed of course) Years ago, you would never hear any of that. You heard it when it was officially announced TV. It was "must see TV" Don't watch, you missed out. Now, if you don't watch, come to this forum(and others), go to the WWE youtube pages, fire up twitter/instagram of any WWE wrestler, and tons of other avenues.



I can justify if the show is doing well or not by keeping up with it on a weekly basis. (I don't watch by the way - those days are long gone - but I'm still a fan and I follow the product.) All I know is they can be doing a hell of a lot better than they're doing now. If Vince McMahon wasn't micromanaging everything, if superstars were given more creative freedom, if there was long-term planning and shows weren't being rewritten 3 hours before they go on the air, if a midcard act wasn't more over than the world champion, etc etc.


LOL, dude you think I'm on here to complain? I would love to say the show was great this week and point out the things I enjoyed - as a matter of fact, I thought last week's Smackdown was one of the best shows in a while. But I'll call it how I see it and if something doesn't do it for me I'll say so.


I agree more surprises would be beneficial, but I don't agree that everything is spoiled because of social media, other streams etc because it's up to you as a fan if you seek out those results elsewhere, if you choose to go online and read about what's happening, what's rumoured to be happening etc. 



And by the way, not once did I mention that I think if they did things better ratings would go up to how they used to be. Those days are long gone. But I do think ratings could improve at least slightly, and over a consistent basis, from what they are now.


----------



## raymond1985

I think the presentation, booking, Rollins' push, etc have slowed killed off all hope for some. It's going to take someone mega to turn things around. It's a cold product. 

The legends naturally lose their appeal with each passing year as they become less relevant. I mean even the Attitude era is over 20 years old now. Especially since all of them have been used to death at this point. Of course, as we all know deep down, Austin, Rock, Flair, etc are superior to Rollins, Kingston, Bryan, etc. Hence the decent ratings hike the legends provided last week.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> I think the presentation, booking, *Rollins' push*, etc have slowed killed off all hope for some. It's going to take someone mega to turn things around. It's a cold product.
> 
> The legends naturally lose their appeal with each passing year as they become less relevant. I mean even the Attitude era is over 20 years old now. Especially since all of them have been used to death at this point. Of course, as we all know deep down, Austin, Rock, Flair, etc are superior to *Rollins, Kingston, Bryan,* etc. Hence the decent ratings hike the legends provided last week.


Neither of those names are the reasons why the ratings continue to decrease :lmao :lmao

For the record, those legends aren't going to save the ratings for the long-term if they appear EVERY week. Eventually, more people won't want to tune in if the shows continue to suck IN SPITE of who's getting featured.


----------



## Chris90

Oof


----------



## Chrome

http://www.wrestling-online.com/wwe/raw-rating-for-07-29-2019/



> As fully expected, Raw didn’t come even close to last week’s Raw Reunion number and not only that, it was the worst number in over a month with an average of 2,321,000 viewers, down 772,000 viewers from the Raw Reunion show and down 132,000 viewers from the prior week’s broadcast.
> 
> The show started with 2,407,000 viewers, then went down to 2,324,000 viewers for the second hour before finishing the night with 2,233,000 viewers.
> 
> Raw was #2, #3, and #4 in the top 50 cable chart among the 18-49 demographic and #5 in overall viewership for the night on cable. (Ratings credit: Showbuzzdaily.com)


Worst rating in a month. :deandre

Hourly Breakdown

Hour 1: 2.407 million viewers, 0.73 rating in 18-49 demographic

Hour 2: 2.324 million viewers, 0.75 rating in 18-49 demographic

Hour 3: 2.233 million viewers, 0.75 rating in 18-49 demographic


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Well, if Brock wasn't there, it would've been 2,100,000 viewers in that third hour...


----------



## RiverFenix

Who are these 700K viewers who just turn out for the nostalgia trip that keeps getting sadder and sadder and the oldies keep getting older and older. 

This has to be folks who watch later in the week or by other means who decided to tune in live right? Not lay fans who turned in for one special week and then ghosted again?

Also WWE did the reunion show in the middle of July because it was the last Raw before the Q2 reports and they used the ratings spike to fluff up numbers and averages. They made claim that Raw viewership was trending up in July based solely on the reunion spike.

When will they realize they need to drop the third hour, which would allow them to cut out a lot of the filler and run a much tighter 2 hour show? 3 hours scared people off from even bothering watching - even if it was a decent show.


----------



## Chrome

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Who are these 700K viewers who just turn out for the nostalgia trip that keeps getting sadder and sadder and the oldies keep getting older and older.
> 
> This has to be folks who watch later in the week or by other means who decided to tune in live right? Not lay fans who turned in for one special week and then ghosted again?
> 
> *Also WWE did the reunion show in the middle of July because it was the last Raw before the Q2 reports and they used the ratings spike to fluff up numbers and averages. They made claim that Raw viewership was trending up in July based solely on the reunion spike.*


Very good point, so we'll probably get a reunion special in mid-October too lol.


----------



## The XL 2

They are literally unopposed by anything. No NFL, no NBA, nothing, and this is the best they can do. Once the NFL and NBA come back and once AEW provides an alternative, WWEs ratings are going to go in the absolute shitter. They're gonna get buried come this fall.


----------



## rexmundi

There are only three certainties in life: Death, taxes, and Mr. Hour 3 working his "magic". :Cocky


----------



## A-C-P

:heston


----------



## The Main Headliner

llj said:


> The wrestling smarks maybe, but Rock is a bonafide movie star though, which will still draw the casuals who necessarily don't care about eras.


Yeah agreed.....Rock on Instagram putting up old videos of Eddie and Booker T got a combined like 20 million views. :lmao

....Rock's definitely drawing people to Monday Night Raw or Smackdown if he's advertised to show up.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Dying product relying massively on the international market.


----------



## Rated-R-Peepz

Chrome said:


> http://www.wrestling-online.com/wwe/raw-rating-for-07-29-2019/
> 
> 
> 
> Worst rating in a month. :deandre
> 
> Hourly Breakdown
> 
> Hour 1: 2.407 million viewers, 0.73 rating in 18-49 demographic
> 
> Hour 2: 2.324 million viewers, 0.75 rating in 18-49 demographic
> 
> Hour 3: 2.233 million viewers, 0.75 rating in 18-49 demographic


It looks like RAW wasn't sophisticated enough. :brock4


----------



## rexmundi

This is an excerpt from Wrestling Inc:



> *For this week's show, the first hour drew 2.407 million viewers (last week's hour 1 - 3.019 million), the second hour drew 2.324 million viewers (last week's hour 2 - 3.178 million) and the final hour drew 2.233 million viewers (last week's hour 3 - 3.083 million).*


So the first hour was "only" 612,000 viewers down week to week. Hour 2 was down a whopping 854,000 and Hour 3 was down 850,000. The whole show's average was down 772,00 viewers which was a 25% drop. Conclusion: The Raw Reunion show did little to build anticipation for this week as the numbers clearly show. WWE completely failed to capitalize on the increased viewership from last week.


----------



## Therapy

I for one am SHOCKED I tell you, that the ratings boost gimmick of the reunion show didn't carry over to the next show.. Who saw that coming?????


----------



## ShadowSucks92

I still find it funny that they knew last week that the RAW Reunion show would get a ratings boost yet they did absolutely nothing on the show to keep viewers watching.


----------



## rbl85

ShadowSucks92 said:


> I still find it funny that they knew last week that the RAW Reunion show would get a ratings boost *yet they did absolutely nothing on the show to keep viewers watching.*


The only way for WWE to keep the viewers would have been to to put Stone Cold once again on the show.

That's the big problem for WWE, the fans prefer to watch retired wrestlers than the actual wrestlers.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

Bring back the GM

Have Stone Cold GM on Raw
Have Hulk Hogan GM on SmackDown


----------



## Cosmo77

that rating with brock brutalizing seth? lol.


----------



## SPCDRI

rexmundi said:


> There are only three certainties in life: Death, taxes, and Mr. Hour 3 working his "magic". :Cocky


Right, but the person who made his special "ratings popping" appearance and delivered a beatdown can never get any heat on him, or the "Samoan Summit."
Why not say Brock is a sorcerer and Roman is a wizard if you want to say Seth is a magician? Brock and the Shield is a flop, a dead angle. Abort this shit already.
Edit:Standard Brock Apologist Line is "But the numbers would have been lower without him!"


----------



## Chrome

WWE just sucks at cliffhangers nowadays, last week ended with the legends in the ring and a good Stone Cold promo, but people knew they weren't going to be around next week and left.


----------



## SPCDRI

RAW July 29th, 2019;
Hour One - 2.407m
Hour Two - 2.324m
Hour Three - 2.233m
Overall Average - 2.321m (18-49 demo - 0.74)

RAW July 30th, 2018;
Hour One - 2.875m
Hour Two - 3.012m
Hour Three - 2.815m
Overall Average - 2.901m (18-49 demo - 0.99)

Viewership down 20.0% year over year. 18-49 demo down 25.3% year over year.

The "Heyman is back rub" is fading, the Brock as champ rub is fading, the Reunion show is a one shot payoff immediately in a popped number but nobody stays around for the following week, 20 percent year over year drop, 18-49 demo in the toilet. 

"The number is down from the three weeks prior to the Raw Reunion and is the lowest average viewership since the June 24 episode."


----------



## Chan Hung

And no shocker, the ratings back in the shithole after they brought back everyone and their mom last week with no reason to keep the viewers engaged the week after

:cornette

:maury



rbl85 said:


> ShadowSucks92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still find it funny that they knew last week that the RAW Reunion show would get a ratings boost *yet they did absolutely nothing on the show to keep viewers watching.*
> 
> 
> 
> The only way for WWE to keep the viewers would have been to to put Stone Cold once again on the show.
> 
> That's the big problem for WWE, the fans prefer to watch retired wrestlers than the actual wrestlers.
Click to expand...

They're no longer making larger than life stars.


----------



## Erramayhem89

I'm telling you guys WWE is just dead there is no point to any of this unless they completely revamp the product. They've ruined everything. Brock, AJ and Alexa can't carry the show.


----------



## The XL 2

The booking sucks, but the talent is fucking atrocious. It can't be ignored anymore, these guys are just so fucking bad. Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns are awful faces of the company, the worst ever in the history of the company. Becky Lynch and Kofi Kingston are fine in the middle of the card, but as top performers they're bad. The midcard is filled with geeks, Ricochet, Viking Raiders, Sami Zayn, Finn Balor, The Revival, Drew McIntyre, etc, these guys just don't have it, they're mediocre performers. No one can work, no one can talk, barely anyone has charisma, no star power, no it factor, nothing. Just a mix of midget spot monkeys, big stiffs with no personality, and boring charisma vacuums. The few guys that don't suck, like Samoa Joe aren't pushed, and the few guys with upside, like EC3, can't even get on TV. The only think that has made Raw halfway watchable has been R Truth and to a lesser extent, Drake Maverick and his hot wife. 

The booking takes a beating on here, and it should, but half the reason the show is so boring is because the talent is fucking shit. There is a reason why 20 years ago guys like Kaz Hayashi, Bull Buchanan, Jerry Lynn, etc, didn't have the show built around them. Poor mans versions of those kinds of guys are now the majority of the upper midcard and main event.


----------



## Chan Hung

Some of you guys hit the nail with the hammer... they need more people with more charisma, better promo skills.

Rock, Austin, Flair...all could fucking talk.

The problem is while they have guys that can flip and do some pretty good in-ring work they don't tell much stories to care....they lack a lot with in ring psychology ....Plus they don't sell injuries well and worst of all they don't engage The viewer enough since they can't get over on the mic. Ie..Seth, Kofi, Riocchet..all horrible on the mic.


----------



## Seafort

I tuned it out within a few minutes last night after that mockery of an opening narration playing up the new prominent flagship championship of RAW...the 24/7 belt. If that was what was in store for us, if that was WWE’s attempt at sophosticatiOn, I’m out. And I know I wasn’t alone...I spoke to a coworker - very smart guy whose a big wrestling fan in general - and he said the same thing.


----------



## DammitChrist

The talent isn't "fucking atrocious" :lmao

It only seems that way because the booking of the shows in general is fucking AWFUL.

The current talents are fine. They're the least of the WWE's problems.


----------



## drougfree

we need more shane lacey corbin :vince


----------



## SPCDRI

DammitC said:


> The talent isn't "fucking atrocious" :lmao
> 
> It only seems that way because the booking of the shows in general is fucking AWFUL.
> 
> The current talents are fine. They're the least of the WWE's problems.


Any promotion in the United States would kill at a chance to take the top 40 or 50 men on RAW and Smackdown and run a 2 hour show with it. The talent is fine, its everything else that is fucked.


----------



## The_It_Factor

The XL 2 said:


> They are literally unopposed by anything. No NFL, no NBA, nothing, and this is the best they can do. Once the NFL and NBA come back and once AEW provides an alternative, WWEs ratings are going to go in the absolute shitter. They're gonna get buried come this fall.


That’s what people here say every year, and it hasn’t made a real difference in years..... Normal people that watch sports don’t watch wrestling anymore.


----------



## The XL 2

DammitC said:


> The talent isn't "fucking atrocious" :lmao
> 
> It only seems that way because the booking of the shows in general is fucking AWFUL.
> 
> The current talents are fine. They're the least of the WWE's problems.


The talent is garbage. Just about none of these guys can work or talk, most of them look like shit, most of them are boring as fuck. The few that are talented, the company doesn't get behind. This is the worst era of professional wrestling ever, at least in North America.


----------



## The XL 2

The_It_Factor said:


> That’s what people here say every year, and it hasn’t made a real difference in years..... Normal people that watch sports don’t watch wrestling anymore.


Every year the NFL comes around, the ratings dip, and those people don't come back. On top of that, they're going to have a direct competitor in AEW. Now AEW has it's issues, the undercard is pretty awful and they've already made some questionable decisions, but their top of the card, specifically Moxley and Jericho, are a lot better than the WWEs, they're going to be TV14, they're going to have wins and losses matter, and the promos will be unscripted, and AEWs 2 hours of TV a week is a lot less of an investment to ask than WWEs 5 hours of programming a week, all of those things will make their product a lot more watchable than the WWE. The WWE is going to likely have a huge chunk of their market share taken away this fall.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

AEW will likely have some stumbling to do. I think we've all seen some weird camera work or awkwardness on even their best shows, and they're going to have to prove that they can do long term storytelling that isn't too self indulgent (like every single storyline being about Elite infighting or doubling down on Hangman Page if he proves to need more time to develop). Still, they've done two really great shows that show the potential is there for something good.

Even Nitro had some stumbling, with the Dungeon of Doom storyline dominating lot of the early Nitros until The Giant beat Flair and the nWo stuff kicked off. 

I doubt they'll be real competition till about a year in when they have a big payoff of some kind. Leaning on Moxley, Jericho, and Omega is going to be key to all of this.


----------



## ClintDagger

Vince has NEVER been good creatively. Ever. He’s no worse now than he was 20 years ago or 30 years ago. The difference is in the 80s and 90s he lucked into or flat out bought can’t miss talent. He hasn’t lucked into that kind of talent in over 20 years. The talent he does get like Brock requires good booking and storytelling to get and keep over. Something he’s not capable of.

The dying nature of this product is purely based on the fact that the talent being pushed like Seth, Roman, Becky, and Kofi can’t rescue Vince. In fact, the opposite is true. They would need a creative genius to draw money. It’s a catch 22.


----------



## Chan Hung

ClintDagger said:


> Vince has NEVER been good creatively. Ever. He’s no worse now than he was 20 years ago or 30 years ago. The difference is in the 80s and 90s he lucked into or flat out bought can’t miss talent. He hasn’t lucked into that kind of talent in over 20 years. The talent he does get like Brock requires good booking and storytelling to get and keep over. Something he’s not capable of.
> 
> The dying nature of this product is purely based on the fact that the talent being pushed like Seth, Roman, Becky, and Kofi can’t rescue Vince. In fact, the opposite is true. They would need a creative genius to draw money. It’s a catch 22.


Another thing that saddens me as a fan is that if the philosophy is to put the brand over the Stars which I understand why then you can realise why they're afraid of crate too many mega Stars


----------



## ClintDagger

Chan Hung said:


> Another thing that saddens me as a fan is that if the philosophy is to put the brand over the Stars which I understand why then you can realise why they're afraid of crate too many mega Stars


I don’t fully buy that they want to put the brand over the stars. I mean I understand why you say that because it’s true in 9 out of 10 instances and that’s certainly true when it comes to the Punks & Bryans of the world. But the truth is Vince wants his hand picked stars to become huge. He went as all-in on Cena & Reigns as you possibly can. Cena was successful in some ways and a failure in others. And Reigns was just a dismal failure. But Vince was hoping those guys would reach Hogan / Austin level.


----------



## Chan Hung

ClintDagger said:


> Chan Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing that saddens me as a fan is that if the philosophy is to put the brand over the Stars which I understand why then you can realise why they're afraid of crate too many mega Stars
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t fully buy that they want to put the brand over the stars. I mean I understand why you say that because it’s true in 9 out of 10 instances and that’s certainly true when it comes to the Punks & Bryans of the world. But the truth is Vince wants his hand picked stars to become huge. He went as all-in on Cena & Reigns as you possibly can. Cena was successful in some ways and a failure in others. And Reigns was just a dismal failure. But Vince was hoping those guys would reach Hogan / Austin level.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that one of Vinces major worries was to ever have his made stars leave, this was during the dying WCW days. Then he became more comfortable but with AEW possibly on the horizon he may be a little cautious to make the past mistakes. But I can understand what u mean in that yes it be great to have some major stars again


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> The talent isn't "fucking atrocious" :lmao
> 
> It only seems that way because the booking of the shows in general is fucking AWFUL.
> 
> The current talents are fine. They're the least of the WWE's problems.


Wrong. It's more nuanced than that.

It is the booking team's fault that Rollins is given terrible material. It's not the booking squad's fault that Rollins is a terrible actor and has a terrible voice. 

Both are to blame. Stop being a fanboy.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

rexmundi said:


> This is an excerpt from Wrestling Inc:
> 
> 
> 
> So the first hour was "only" 612,000 viewers down week to week. Hour 2 was down a whopping 854,000 and Hour 3 was down 850,000. The whole show's average was down 772,00 viewers which was a 25% drop. Conclusion: The Raw Reunion show did little to build anticipation for this week as the numbers clearly show. WWE completely failed to capitalize on the increased viewership from last week.


Makes sense as you had Cena open the show and Austin close the show. Those guys are stars and compare them to today's guys it just doesn't measure up. It's not the in-ring skill it is charisma, mic skills and presence and in comparison they are lacking. 

Should have had some kind of Austin/KO interaction. 

Show had some bright spots but still a lot of misses. I know some are acting like this was some great show to me the true highlights was the Raw Tag Title match and Brock's beatdown of Seth. That should have closed instead of Roman, his inebriated cousins and Alexander flopping (not jumping) off the stage.


----------



## Freelancer

Who didn't see this drop in ratings coming? It couldn't be anymore obvious that the reunion wasn't going to do anything to help. And even though they brought in Heyman, we all know Vince is still calling the shots. I don't know why anyone expected any major change with anything.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> Wrong. It's more nuanced than that.


Wow, you've totally "convinced" me here with your "wisdom" 8*D



> It is the booking team's fault that Rollins is given terrible material. It's not the booking squad's fault that Rollins is a terrible actor and has a terrible voice.


Except it is the booking team's fault. Besides, Seth Rollins is a fine actor. The way he sold Brock Lesnar's brutal attacks this week on Raw is the most recent proof.



> Both are to blame. Stop being a fanboy.


No, the booking of the shows IS to blame :mj4

How about you actually take your blind shades off, and quit being obsessed with your hatred for the guy for once instead of pretending like everything is his fault :lol

Your terrible shtick got old months ago.


----------



## A-C-P

I mean is the talent pool really that much different than it was 2 years ago? 2 years ago they were drawing 3.00 million for Raws on average, the same # the Reunion show just drew. So personal tastes aside on the current talent, that # shows me its much more the writing/booking. other factors like that than the talent itself IMO.

Not saying the talent is totally blameless, but its not one of the top factors of why these shows are so bad and viewers are tuning out, IMO.

Plus the fact that the talent pool looks basically the same as it did 2 years ago is one of the inherent problem, acts get stale and need to be rotated and moved up and down the card in the wrestling business (especially one that is on TV for 5 hours every week) The WWE has basically had the same talents slotted into the same spots on the card with very little change over the last 2 (really more) years.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Except it is the booking team's fault. Besides, Seth Rollins is a fine actor. The way he sold Brock Lesnar's brutal attacks this week on Raw is the most recent proof.


One segment. 

His promos are usually terrible and his voice is cringe-worthy. But if you want to believe he's a mega-draw in the making, then so be it. 

It's not just Rollins btw. Many other performers have weaknesses that the booking team can't address.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> One segment.
> 
> His promos are usually terrible and his voice is cringe-worthy. *But if you want to believe he's a mega-draw in the making, then so be it.*
> 
> It's not just Rollins btw. Many other performers have weaknesses that the booking team can't address.


Where the fuck did I claim the bolded? :lol

It's pretty cute to see you continue to reach about Rollins so you can blame shit (which isn't even his fault) on him.

For the record, his promos are usually fine/average


----------



## bradatar

1.7m in a month when MNF comes back..GET READY FOR PANIC MODE.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Where the fuck did I claim the bolded? :lol
> 
> It's pretty cute to see you continue to reach about Rollins so you can blame shit (which isn't even his fault) on him.
> 
> For the record, his promos are usually fine/average


Okay then, let's keep this simple. 

How big of a draw would Rollins be if he was booked perfectly?


----------



## llj

A-C-P said:


> Plus the fact that the talent pool looks basically the same as it did 2 years ago is one of the inherent problem, acts get stale and need to be rotated and moved up and down the card in the wrestling business (especially one that is on TV for 5 hours every week) The WWE has basically had the same talents slotted into the same spots on the card with very little change over the last 2 (really more) years.


To be fair, Becky and Kofi weren't as prominently featured 2 years ago.


----------



## A-C-P

llj said:


> To be fair, Becky and Kofi weren't as prominently featured 2 years ago.


Very True. Yes, there has been some movement in the talents up/down the card but for the most part, overall, outside of Cena being totally gone now the roster in July 2019 is not much different than July 2019, is my point.

So to me that means the talents individually can not be as much to blame for the decline as some people want to make them out to be is how I feel.


----------



## llj

SPCDRI said:


> Any promotion in the United States would kill at a chance to take the top 40 or 50 men on RAW and Smackdown and run a 2 hour show with it. The talent is fine, its everything else that is fucked.


As mentioned, it is largely the same talent that was doing 3m just 1-2 years ago. The big difference is that creative is somehow worse than ever (and it wasn't great back then either) and the talent use is absolutely atrocious currently.


----------



## Freelancer

I can't wait to see how bad the ratings get when Football starts. Vince might really lose whatever sanity he has left and bring Russo in...........


----------



## ClintDagger

Vince has never been any good at creative. WWF/E in boom periods has always thrived in spite of Vince McMahon, not because of him. The difference is that the current talent is not good enough or willing enough to overcome the shortcomings of Vince and his minions. Vince has never taken mediocre or subpar talent like Rollins or Kofi and made them huge stars. If a genius is what is needed to make those guys attractive to a broad audience that doesn’t exist in the current framework and it never will. People are essentially asking for something to help these talents out that has never existed before.


----------



## IronMan8

Freelancer said:


> I can't wait to see how bad the ratings get when Football starts. Vince might really lose whatever sanity he has left and bring Russo in...........


It worked before...


----------



## Seafort

raymond1985 said:


> DammitC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where the fuck did I claim the bolded? <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> It's pretty cute to see you continue to reach about Rollins so you can blame shit (which isn't even his fault) on him.
> 
> For the record, his promos are usually fine/average <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/redface.gif" border="0" alt="" title="blush" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Okay then, let's keep this simple.
> 
> How big of a draw would Rollins be if he was booked perfectly?
Click to expand...

Seth’s optimum placement is as a sleazy heel who you want to see destroyed. When he costs Becky Lynch her title and it is revealed he’s had a months long relationship with Lacey Evans, he’ll be well positioned as a top heel.


----------



## Ichigo87

raymond1985 said:


> I think the presentation, booking, Rollins' push, etc have slowed killed off all hope for some. It's going to take someone mega to turn things around. It's a cold product.
> 
> The legends naturally lose their appeal with each passing year as they become less relevant. I mean even the Attitude era is over 20 years old now. Especially since all of them have been used to death at this point. Of course, as we all know deep down, Austin, Rock, Flair, etc are superior to Rollins, Kingston, Bryan, etc. Hence the decent ratings hike the legends provided last week.


You can add Lesnar to that list with Rollins and the others. He's one of the most pushed people today so nice try.


----------



## raymond1985

Ichigo87 said:


> You can add Lesnar to that list with Rollins and the others. He's one of the most pushed people today so nice try.


I've never claimed that Lesnar is a draw in 2019. 

He's merely a band-aid. And one that is less effective which each passing month. But I get that you don't want Rollins to receive any criticism. He's free from responsibility after all.


----------



## squarebox

I love the headline on pwtorch, *"Raw Rating: WWE not only loses all those extra viewers who tuned in for Raw Reunion, but drove away another 140,000 compared to prior week."*

lmao, keep the laughs coming WWE.


----------



## Randy Lahey

How can anyone say the current talent is "fine", when you see what a difference the AE guys are when brought back, and the current roster? It's night and day. WWE has a talent problem AND a problem with the direction of the show. G rated wrestling belongs on saturday mornings. Not Monday night. It's never belonged on Monday night. Until they change the show to a show that is geared towards adults (specifically young adult males), the WWE will continue to bleed viewers.

You can't say the talent is the best it's ever been when you have 2 vanilla geeks in Kofi and Seth as top pushed guys. Those two would be lucky to be on Sunday Night Heat back in the day.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

ClintDagger said:


> Vince has never been any good at creative. WWF/E in boom periods has always thrived in spite of Vince McMahon, not because of him.


I don't think Pat Patterson gets the credit he deserves for a lot of the booking in the 1980's. He was supposedly Vince's right hand man, came up with the Royal Rumble concept, and was largely responsible for the layout of the Hogan/Warrior match.

If he really wants someone who knows what he's doing, Vince needs to hire Gedo. He's the only person who's demonstrated brilliant booking skills in recent years.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> I've never claimed that Lesnar is a draw in 2019.
> 
> He's merely a band-aid. And one that is less effective which each passing month. But I get that you don't want Rollins to receive any criticism. He's free from responsibility after all.


We get it. You desperately want to give Seth Rollins the full responsibility for the low ratings (when it's really not his fault at all)


----------



## ClintDagger

Mifune Jackson said:


> I don't think Pat Patterson gets the credit he deserves for a lot of the booking in the 1980's. He was supposedly Vince's right hand man, came up with the Royal Rumble concept, and was largely responsible for the layout of the Hogan/Warrior match.
> 
> If he really wants someone who knows what he's doing, Vince needs to hire Gedo. He's the only person who's demonstrated brilliant booking skills in recent years.


George Scott and later Patterson were the only good idea people that Vince would listen to. But even they could only do so much. You can look at any era of WWF/E and see Vince’s horrible creative mind here and there.


----------



## ClintDagger

DammitC said:


> We get it. You desperately want to give Seth Rollins the full responsibility for the low ratings (when it's really not his fault at all)


Seth doesn’t deserve full responsibility or anything close to it, but it’s also not true to say it’s not his fault at all. WWE is like a sports franchise with a bad owner, bad coach, and bad roster of talent. The problem certainly starts at the top, but they all share blame in being a losing team.


----------



## Ace

Special talents like Austin, Rock and Cena covered Vince's incompetence. He's no creative genius and would have been out of business if he didn't have those 3, he doesn't have them anymore and look at the state of the company.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> We get it. You desperately want to give Seth Rollins the full responsibility for the low ratings (when it's really not his fault at all)


I've clearly stated that other factor are to blame in addition to Rollins. 

But you think Rollins can do no wrong. Back to your shrine.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> I've clearly stated that other factor are to blame in addition to Rollins.
> 
> But you think Rollins can do no wrong. *Back to your shrine.*


There it is. There's your terrible catchphrase to go along with your false assumptions.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> There it is. There's your terrible catchphrase to go along with your false assumptions.


What false assumptions?

It was you who said that I completely blamed Rollins for the declining ratings. Which I don't. But to say he is blameless is nonsense. 

It's clear that you just don't want Rollins to receive any criticism. You constantly infer that he's a draw, or would be a draw with better booking, without outright saying it.

So again, I shall ask you. If Rollins was booked how you think he should be, would he be a massive draw?


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Special talents like Austin, Rock and Cena covered Vince's incompetence. He's no creative genius and would have been out of business if he didn't have those 3, he doesn't have them anymore and look at the state of the company.


I’ve been saying this forever. Some people keep wringing their hands wanting Vince to turn mediocre talent like Rollins and Reigns into gigantic stars. But that’s never going to happen and it never has. Vince needs genius to prop him up, not the other way around.


----------



## JeSeGaN

*Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

WWE did it with Big Daddy Corbs. 

Now that the viewership plummeted even further, should they call out someone else again?

If so, who? Only people that come to mind for me are Seth, Becky, and Shane.


----------



## All Hope Is Gone

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

Show is trash
Trash shows get trash ratings


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*



Jan.S.Gelz said:


> WWE did it with Big Daddy Corbs.
> 
> Now that the viewership plummeted even further, should they call out someone else again?
> 
> If so, who? Only people that come to mind for me are Seth, Becky, and Shane.


----------



## SPCDRI

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

None of the Golden Boys can ever be blamed for tanked ratings. Stuff like that only exists to put kayfabe blame on people for doing "bad jobs" when all they are trying to do is make the maximum out of the minimum with the crummy material they are given, like the Baron Corbin, the Big Pimpin' Applebee's Manager, getting blamed for lousy ratings when he was the "Constable." Or they will do the worked shoot stuff like, "Shane is boring and takes too much television time" but they'll never have a wrestler say something like, "He's the big reason ratings are in the toilet and I'm looking at a tarp right now." 

No Shield member will ever get overtly blamed for tanked ratings, and Brock "Imagine the numbers without him!" Lesnar will never get any heat on him, either. The push of the New Day stable post-WM has seen Smackdown numbers at all time lows, below 2 million for 10 of the last 12 weeks and close to 25 percent off of where they were last year. There's a better chance of you turning into a Booty's O's shitting pancake-unicorn than them getting called to the carpet for that, though.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

It's all the Brooklyn Brawler's fault. When he left, ratings nose dived.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*



TheLooseCanon said:


> It's all the Brooklyn Brawler's fault. When he left, ratings nose dived.


This is what they get for not using the master and the ruler of the world at the Raw reunion










Now Vince is the one saying










when the ratings come in every week.


----------



## BarackYoMama

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

Book a better show and get better ratings? I mean, the last couple shows have been better than others but they still gotta book better to get better? Cause the people you want to blame, they been on top before, and all this and ratings were no where near this bad and low. The show's just aren't what they use to be. So hell I didn't blame Corbin, I don't like him, but the ratings aren't a persons fault, it's how bad the show is.


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

Shit show in getting shit ratings shock....

Vince needs to stop BLAMING the wrestlers who only follow his (shit) scripts and start thinking about how to make Raw better


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: Another segment to blame the abysmal ratings on someone?*

When you write bad shows, expect shit ratings and its not on talents either.


----------



## Not Lying

raymond1985 said:


> Okay then, let's keep this simple.
> 
> How big of a draw would Rollins be if he was booked perfectly?


Let's play this game another way. For the record, Rollins is in my top 10-15 favorites and I'd rather see a few others pushed more.

Rollins is one of the top 5 most over superstars in WWE today. He's also probably in the top 10 merch sellers. He's a great wrestler who can deliver in the ring.

Mic work? He's no Miz or Joe or Bray. Clearly. However, how many world champions were all great talkers in the past? Not as many as you'd believe, I can remind you that at a time you had Jack Swagger as world champion, ratings were better then.. does that mean if Swagger is back and as world champion he'd draw anything close to level before? not really.

Charisma wise? Seth doesn't ooze charisma, he's not Velveteen Dream or Becky or Prime Jericho or whatever. Yet, the definition of charisma is "Charisma is compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.". Seth has a large following, that is undeniable. To see people claim he's not charismatic is not being objective. 

The thing here is basically this: Seth just beat Lesnar at Mania, in a cheap way, WWE doesn't really know how to follow up on that. I mean, Seth went from facing Lesnar and winning by not clean to feuding with Corbin. How is this supposed to excite fans? Feeling of something filler and not worth watching isn't really something to look forward. Then the terrible attempt at WWE to have him and Becky on stage together, total cringe. 

My point being, is Seth the guy who will bring ratings back to another level? no. 
But he's just as good of an option as any to try considering, as mentioned, he's top 5 most over and top 10 merch seller. 


One thing I wana bring up and it really shows the biasesness and hatred of some people. 
People here like to talk shit about the women's revolution ruining ratings to "an unforgettable level". Let me see, these same people also claim that WWE stopped giving a shit about the women after the Flair birthday/Batista show.

Once the Rumble happened you had 2 matches announced Seth/Lesnar and Ronda/Becky. One was the main event and the other was in the middle of the show, yet the crowd cared 1000x more for the women than the men's match, the entire online buzz and google searches and everything was on the women. With only 2 matches announced, the spent the next 2 WEEKS, literally 2 episodes of RAW focusing on building these matches, with no other match announced, nothing clear for Bryan at Mania, no big returning legend, nothing, just Becky and Ronda carrying the show because Brock doesn't show up and no other match announced. 

it's that time when others matches became more clear and there were other matches finally announced, Kofimania, HHH/Batista, and Shane/Miz. 
Ratings slightly improved (duh, you have more shit going on instead of one thing that they were milking for 3h) but yet the same drop was consistent with the y-o-y .. the women kept getting the blame, despite many here claiming that WWE has given up on the women, they weren't gona let them main event, and they aren't getting good segment, yet those people were WRONG, because the women's match was still the most important match on the card, despite the little effort and the entire mess they made of the match, and having their most over superstar selling a terrible injury and being suspended/arrested multiple times. 
The past few months, with Ronda gone, the women were getting less time and the main stories were Corbin/Seth and Kofi squashing everyone on SD. 
but yet still you have Becky the most over star on the roster. People here are still blaming the women despite them also claiming that WWE has reduced their time.. a bunch of hypocrites. 

People that claim to KNOW what caused the ratings to go down are a bunch of hypocrites who's opinion mean shit, because the truth it, nobody really knows except the guys in the HQ. I THINK, the reason for the ratings to be down is Vince's obsession with Brock Lesnar, the way he squashed Cena out of WWE, the way he made him the FOTC despite failing and his insistence to build Reigns for him to be the one to beat him. Many claimed for years "if you don't like it stop watching", well you can't blame the fans for that. When Triple H calls the crowd marks, when Vince insisted on fighting the fans, example: Roman entering the Rumble at #30 in 2017 is one of the biggest fuck yous to the crowd I have ever seen. 
I am not claiming to be certain this is cause, but I can say facts:
- WWE viewership started reaching all time low records in July last year, way before any real "women revolution".. that many hate and claim it's the reason for the downfall.

- The Saudi Show in November that happened and putting the belt on Brock AGAIN instead of Strowman, was a TERRIBLE decision, AND the ratings reflect that 

- The WWE is not mainstream anymore, most people are embarrassed to watch it after the age of 14. No matter how great the main event is sometimes, a lot of shit are just cringe and would make people get ridiculed for watching it. 

I don't get it how you can all sit here and claim that pushing one of the most over stars on the roster to be a bad decision. You do realize this means he's very popular right? It means if you decide to burry he could take another 100K-300K fans away. So the answer you question, if Rollins alone had perfect booking? He'd draw a bit more, if he had more compelling challengers and better stories. But the booking of the show from top to bottom needs to change, the 3h RAW is TOO FUCKING MUCH. 

I mean for years WWE pushed some POS champions the crowd hated, and now that they're finally doing the right thing and pushing popular FULL TIME roster people, you want to complain? 

Yeah it would be great if we could get some better promo workers at the top, but how much is that gona make a difference if their presentation remains shit? now i ask you, who do you want at the top and how much would he draw if he had perfect booking?


----------



## raymond1985

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah it would be great if we could get some better promo workers at the top, but how much is that gona make a difference if their presentation remains shit? now i ask you, who do you want at the top and how much would he draw if he had perfect booking?


Braun and Joe would be better options. Joe is better than Rollins at literally everything and Braun is more marketable. Sadly, WWE have jobbed Joe out and stalled on Braun's push. Braun even sold more merchandise in Q1 of this year, despite not being pushed as much as Rollins. Both would have retained viewers better than Rollins. Note I didn't say that they would solve all of WWE's issues or ushered in another boom period. 

Rollins being demoted would have zero influence on viewership. He's popular with fans who will watch anyway. They will just support other performers, such as Balor, Zayn, etc. Rollins is not Cena, heck he isn't even Reigns who continues to be the biggest merchandise seller despite his diminished profile. 

The biggest year on year drops have occurred in Q1 and Q2 of this year. Sometimes by up to 30%. The Rollins vs Styles programme bombed in the ratings. That is why you can't always judge what will draw based on reactions from the live crowd, as those two are usually over with the live audience. These record year on year declines have somewhat stopped since they brought Brock back, but the numbers are still poor. I've never argued that Brock is a draw in 2019. Just that he's a better candidate to retain viewers than Rollins.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hour 1: 2.411
Hour 2: 2.571
Hour 3: 2.438

Average: 2.473 million


----------



## Ace

What was in that first hour lmfao?

Can't remember the last time the first hr was the lowest. It rarely happens.

Is there a reason to explain it? Goldberg's return in the third hour, competition against other shows?


----------



## rbl85

2.4 for the first hour XD

Imagine if Goldberg didn't appeared….the third hour would have been close to 2m


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.411M
H2- 2.571M
H3- 2.438M
3H- 2.473M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 6.64% / + 0.160M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 5.17% / - 0.133M )
H3 Vs H1 ( + 1.12% / + 0.027M )
8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19 ( + 6.55% / - 0.152M )

Demo (8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19):
H1- 0.780D Vs 0.730D
H2- 0.830D Vs 0.750D
H3- 0.820D Vs 0.750D
3H- 0.810D Vs 0.743D

Note: RAW is 4th, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 7th, 3rd & 6th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
H1- 2.411M Vs 2.830M
H2- 2.571M Vs 2.854M
H3- 2.438M Vs 2.728M
3H- 2.473M Vs 2.804M ( - 11.80% / - 0.331M )

Demo (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
H1- 0.730D Vs 0.940D
H2- 0.750D Vs 0.940D
H3- 0.750D Vs 0.910D
3H- 0.743D Vs 0.930D

Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly viewership.*


----------



## rexmundi

I think the women were heavily featured in the first hour which could explain that rating.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

People are interested in the "Who killed Roman" angle. I've been saying these shows need to implement cliff hangers for a long time, now if they could only execute them better.


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> People are interested in the "Who killed Roman" angle. I've been saying these shows need to implement cliff hangers for a long time, now if they could only execute them better.


 Nah, it was Goldberg. That was the thing people were talking about on social media. Only thing which trended worldwide.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Demographics & Viewership: [07/08/19]*

*H1- 2.384M
H2- 2.349M
H3- 2.322M
3H- 2.352M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 1.47% / - 0.035M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 1.15% / - 0.027M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 2.60% / - 0.062M )
7/8/19 Vs 7/1/19 ( - 5.77% / - 0.144M )

Demo (7/8/19 Vs 7/1/19):
H1- 0.710D Vs 0.760D
H2- 0.730D Vs 0.820D
H3- 0.730D Vs 0.780D
3H- 0.723D Vs 0.787D

Note: RAW is 7th, 5th & 6th by hourly demo & 7th, 8th & 9th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (7/8/19 Vs 7/9/18):
H1- 2.384M Vs 2.582M
H2- 2.349M Vs 2.508M
H3- 2.322M Vs 2.320M
3H- 2.352M Vs 2.470M ( - 4.78% / - 0.118M )

Demo (7/8/19 Vs 7/9/18):
H1- 0.710D Vs 0.800D
H2- 0.730D Vs 0.790D
H3- 0.730D Vs 0.750D
3H- 0.723D Vs 0.780D

Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 3rd & 5th by hourly demo & 4th, 5th & 9th by hourly viewership.*

*Demographics & Viewership: [07/15/19]*

*H1- 2.379M
H2- 2.503M
H3- 2.478M
3H- 2.453M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 5.21% / + 0.124M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 0.99% / - 0.025M )
H3 Vs H1 ( + 4.16% / + 0.099M )
7/15/19 Vs 7/8/19 ( + 4.29% / + 0.101M )

Demo (7/15/19 Vs 7/8/19):
H1- 0.740D Vs 0.710D
H2- 0.830D Vs 0.730D
H3- 0.830D Vs 0.730D
3H- 0.800D Vs 0.723D

Note: RAW is 3rd, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 8th, 5th & 6th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (7/15/19 Vs 7/16/18):
H1- 2.379M Vs 3.118M
H2- 2.503M Vs 2.859M
H3- 2.478M Vs 2.622M
3H- 2.453M Vs 2.866M ( - 14.41% / - 0.413M )

Demo (7/15/19 Vs 7/16/18):
H1- 0.740D Vs 1.030D
H2- 0.830D Vs 0.950D
H3- 0.830D Vs 0.900D
3H- 0.800D Vs 0.960D

Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 5th & 6th by hourly demo & 6th, 8th & 11th by hourly viewership.*

*Demographics & Viewership: [07/22/19]*

*H1- 3.019M
H2- 3.178M
H3- 3.083M
3H- 3.093M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 5.27% / + 0.159M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 2.99% / - 0.095M )
H3 Vs H1 ( + 2.12% / + 0.064M )
7/15/19 Vs 7/8/19 ( + 26.10% / + 0.640M )

Demo (7/22/19 Vs 7/15/19):
H1- 1.110D Vs 0.740D
H2- 1.170D Vs 0.830D
H3- 1.130D Vs 0.830D
3H- 1.137D Vs 0.800D

Note: RAW is 3rd, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 4th, 1st & 2nd by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (7/22/19 Vs 7/23/18):
H1- 3.019M Vs 2.817M
H2- 3.178M Vs 2.821M
H3- 3.083M Vs 2.701M
3H- 3.093M Vs 2.780M ( + 11.26% / + 0.313M )

Demo (7/22/19 Vs 7/23/18):
H1- 1.110D Vs 0.910D
H2- 1.170D Vs 0.930D
H3- 1.130D Vs 0.930D
3H- 1.137D Vs 0.923D

Note: RAW this week last year was 4th, 2nd & 3rd by hourly demo & 3rd, 2nd & 6th by hourly viewership.*

*Demographics & Viewership: [07/29/19]*

*H1- 2.407M
H2- 2.324M
H3- 2.233M
3H- 2.321M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 3.45% / - 0.083M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 3.92% / - 0.091M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 7.23% / - 0.174M )
7/29/19 Vs 7/22/19 ( - 24.96% / - 0.772M )

Demo (7/29/19 Vs 7/22/19):
H1- 0.730D Vs 1.110D
H2- 0.750D Vs 1.170D
H3- 0.750D Vs 1.130D
3H- 0.743D Vs 1.137D

Note: RAW is 4th, 3rd & 2nd by hourly demo & 5th, 6th & 7th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (7/29/19 Vs 7/30/18):
H1- 2.407M Vs 2.875M
H2- 2.324M Vs 3.012M
H3- 2.233M Vs 2.815M
3H- 2.321M Vs 2.901M ( - 19.99% / - 0.580M )

Demo (7/29/19 Vs 7/30/18):
H1- 0.730D Vs 0.960D
H2- 0.750D Vs 1.020D
H3- 0.750D Vs 0.980D
3H- 0.743D Vs 0.987D

Note: RAW this week last year was 4th, 1st & 3rd by hourly demo & 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly viewership.*


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> Nah, it was Goldberg. That was the thing people were talking about on social media. Only thing which trended worldwide.


I doubt that, he did nothing for ratings when his appearance was advertised for Smackdown prior to the Saudi show.

"Who killed Reigns" was a consistent thread throughout the show, and the viewership stayed consistent throughout. I'm led to believe it was that.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Ratings took a marked upswing since Seth lost the title.:hmmm


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ace said:


> Nah, it was Goldberg. That was the thing people were talking about on social media. Only thing which trended worldwide.


Ot: What a sexy sig


----------



## Mordecay

Funny how every time they have promoted a womens tag titles match there have been an increase in ratings from the week before. Sadly now the Iiconics are no longer the champions and they can't have that bump anymore :grin2:


----------



## ClintDagger

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *H1- 2.411M
> H2- 2.571M
> H3- 2.438M
> 3H- 2.473M*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership:
> H2 Vs H1 ( + 6.64% / + 0.160M )
> H3 Vs H2 ( - 5.17% / - 0.133M )
> H3 Vs H1 ( + 1.12% / + 0.027M )
> 8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19 ( + 6.55% / - 0.152M )
> 
> Demo (8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19):
> H1- 0.780D Vs 0.730D
> H2- 0.830D Vs 0.750D
> H3- 0.820D Vs 0.750D
> 3H- 0.810D Vs 0.743D
> 
> Note: RAW is 4th, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 7th, 3rd & 6th by hourly viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
> H1- 2.411M Vs 2.830M
> H2- 2.571M Vs 2.854M
> H3- 2.438M Vs 2.728M
> 3H- 2.473M Vs 2.804M ( - 11.80% / - 0.331M )
> 
> Demo (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
> H1- 0.730D Vs 0.940D
> H2- 0.750D Vs 0.940D
> H3- 0.750D Vs 0.910D
> 3H- 0.743D Vs 0.930D
> 
> Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly viewership.*


Good to have you back.

I’m a little surprised the ratings have snuck back up closer to the 2.5MM range versus being more in the 2.0MM range. Getting the belt off of Seth may have helped after all.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

Goldberg and Brock bringing in those ratings :mark:


----------



## The Boy Wonder

rexmundi said:


> I think the women were heavily featured in the first hour which could explain that rating.


The Women's tag team match and Becky's and Nattie's backstage interviews were in Hour 1.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> JonnyAceLaryngitis said:
> 
> 
> 
> *H1- 2.411M
> H2- 2.571M
> H3- 2.438M
> 3H- 2.473M*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership:
> H2 Vs H1 ( + 6.64% / + 0.160M )
> H3 Vs H2 ( - 5.17% / - 0.133M )
> H3 Vs H1 ( + 1.12% / + 0.027M )
> 8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19 ( + 6.55% / - 0.152M )
> 
> Demo (8/5/19 Vs 7/29/19):
> H1- 0.780D Vs 0.730D
> H2- 0.830D Vs 0.750D
> H3- 0.820D Vs 0.750D
> 3H- 0.810D Vs 0.743D
> 
> Note: RAW is 4th, 1st & 2nd by hourly demo & 7th, 3rd & 6th by hourly viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
> H1- 2.411M Vs 2.830M
> H2- 2.571M Vs 2.854M
> H3- 2.438M Vs 2.728M
> 3H- 2.473M Vs 2.804M ( - 11.80% / - 0.331M )
> 
> Demo (8/5/19 Vs 8/6/18):
> H1- 0.730D Vs 0.940D
> H2- 0.750D Vs 0.940D
> H3- 0.750D Vs 0.910D
> 3H- 0.743D Vs 0.930D
> 
> Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> Good to have you back.
> 
> I’m a little surprised the ratings have snuck back up closer to the 2.5MM range versus being more in the 2.0MM range. Getting the belt off of Seth may have helped after all.
Click to expand...

It’s Heyman’s booking. Not that the shows have been great, but they are better than the lifeless stretches of programming over the last four years that caused WWE to shed viewers. It’s a long road back, but a year from now victory for the company will be if total viewership remains static.


----------



## ClintDagger

Seafort said:


> It’s Heyman’s booking. Not that the shows have been great, but they are better than the lifeless stretches of programming over the last four years that caused WWE to shed viewers. It’s a long road back, but a year from now victory for the company will be if total viewership remains static.


Nah, I don’t really buy that. Vince books these shows and the quality isn’t really improving at all anyways. The difference is adding star quality over the last few months like Taker, Brock, and HBK not to mention the reunion show. The current stars can’t draw a dime and by now we all know it.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> Seafort said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s Heyman’s booking. Not that the shows have been great, but they are better than the lifeless stretches of programming over the last four years that caused WWE to shed viewers. It’s a long road back, but a year from now victory for the company will be if total viewership remains static.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I don’t really buy that. Vince books these shows and the quality isn’t really improving at all anyways. The difference is adding star quality over the last few months like Taker, Brock, and HBK not to mention the reunion show. The current stars can’t draw a dime and by now we all know it.
Click to expand...

I will disagree. Lashley/StrowmanStrowman/TitanTron, Maria Kinellas emasculating her husband, Who Attacked Roman Reigns all have hallmarks of Paul Heyman ideas. Vince is likely adding input, but these are actual continuing storylines. Basic level stuff, but a step up from what we saw previously - Person A challenged Person B, there’s a match, rinse and repeat.

The key to any WWE turnaround is establishing discernible characters on their roster. They’re taking baby steps in that direction with Heyman taking creative reign, whereas previously 90% of the roster were completely generic everpeople who had no clear motivations and differences.

Bottom line, the company was flirting with dropping below 2M unopposed before Heyman took over, and they’re closer to 2.5M now. Can they keep that when the NFL starts - that will be the test.


----------



## ClintDagger

Seafort said:


> I will disagree. Lashley/StrowmanStrowman/TitanTron, Maria Kinellas emasculating her husband, Who Attacked Roman Reigns all have hallmarks of Paul Heyman ideas. Vince is likely adding input, but these are actual continuing storylines. Basic level stuff, but a step up from what we saw previously - Person A challenged Person B, there’s a match, rinse and repeat.
> 
> The key to any WWE turnaround is establishing discernible characters on their roster. They’re taking baby steps in that direction with Heyman taking creative reign, whereas previously 90% of the roster were completely generic everpeople who had no clear motivations and differences.
> 
> Bottom line, the company was flirting with dropping below 2M unopposed before Heyman took over, and they’re closer to 2.5M now. Can they keep that when the NFL starts - that will be the test.


Vince has been doing the Braun feats stuff forever. The Maria stuff seems right down his alley as well. Those may well be Heyman ideas but they only got on screen because they fit Vince’s taste. Just because Vince is the booker doesn’t mean 100% of what we see are his ideas. It just means 100% of what we see are ideas that Vince likes. Nothing has changed creatively except for the person or persons having to pitch stuff to Vince that he will approve.


----------



## patpat

ClintDagger said:


> Nah, I don’t really buy that. Vince books these shows and the quality isn’t really improving at all anyways. The difference is adding star quality over the last few months like Taker, Brock, and HBK not to mention the reunion show. The current stars can’t draw a dime and by now we all know it.


I totally agree, they have been bringing big names lately so naturally people turn on to see it. fans were chanting Goldberg before he even came out on the last show I heard. so people knew he was gonna be there, these days they bring back old timers so naturally people will tune to see if there is any of them.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.772M
H2- 2.820M
H3- 2.595M
3H- 2.729M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 1.73% / + 0.048M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 7.98% / - 0.225M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 6.39% / - 0.177M )
8/12/19 Vs 8/5/19 ( + 10.35% / + 0.256M )

Demo (8/12/19 Vs 8/5/19):
H1- 0.930D Vs 0.780D
H2- 0.950D Vs 0.830D
H3- 0.870D Vs 0.820D
3H- 0.917D Vs 0.810D

Note: RAW is 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly demo & 4th, 3rd & 5th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (8/12/19 Vs 8/13/18):
H1- 2.772M Vs 2.849M
H2- 2.820M Vs 2.867M
H3- 2.595M Vs 2.760M
3H- 2.729M Vs 2.825M ( - 3.40% / - 0.106M )

Demo (8/12/19 Vs 8/13/18):
H1- 0.930D Vs 0.970D
H2- 0.950D Vs 0.980D
H3- 0.870D Vs 0.950D
3H- 0.917D Vs 0.967D

Note: RAW this week last year was 2nd, 1st & 3rd by hourly demo & 4th, 3rd & 6th by hourly viewership.*

*-First post SS RAW in 26 years with sub 3M viewership.
-First post SS RAW in 26 years with sub 1D demographic.*


----------



## llj

That's a very good rating by this year's standards.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Post-SummerSlam bump. People wanted to check out the fallout and see what would happen. No Brock nor Goldberg needed.


----------



## ClintDagger

That’s an incredible rating.



Mifune Jackson said:


> Post-SummerSlam bump. People wanted to check out the fallout and see what would happen. No Brock nor Goldberg needed.


Actually Brock was very much needed. Him losing clean is probably the biggest reason for that rating. People have been waiting for that for 5 years.


----------



## rexmundi

Still down year to year. Now there is no Brock appearance looming so we'll see how the show does without the ppv bump.


----------



## Piers

I guess people wanted to see more of the fiend


----------



## ClintDagger

rexmundi said:


> Still down year to year. Now there is no Brock appearance looming so we'll see how the show does without the ppv bump.


Great point on the year to year. And they fired the bullet of having Brock lose clean. You can only do that once. I think within a month or two we’ll be talking about how they lost almost a million viewers from this point.



They Call Him Y2J said:


> I guess people wanted to see more of the fiend


I wondered that too. If SD can do around 2.5 or 2.6 million that’s great news for Bray and the interest surrounding him.


----------



## Y.2.J

Shit rating but a positive for this year I guess.
I wonder if we have hit the bottom.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

3.4% drop from last year. That's one of their smallest year to year drops in a long time.


----------



## ClintDagger

Y.2.J said:


> Shit rating but a positive for this year I guess.
> I wonder if we have hit the bottom.


I think Raw could plummet in the Fall, especially if SD starts to be considered the “A” show after the move.


----------



## Strategize

The show has definitely gotten better since Heyman. Still not great though, mostly because of the 3 hours. But the angles have been spiking my interest more than usual.


----------



## ClintDagger

Strategize said:


> The show has definitely gotten better since Heyman. Still not great though, mostly because of the 3 hours.


Has it? Last night was horrid. It was festival of the jobbers.


----------



## rexmundi

Just a point of note. Last year's Summerslam was held on 8-19-2018. Therefore we are comparing the rating of a post ppv bump Summerslam to a go home show for Summerslam 2018.








:fact


----------



## Ace

Hm, I don't know whether to feel happy for AJ or disappointed because the number is decent and I can't rip on it and the company this week.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its obviously not equitable to compare this year's post-SummerSlam RAW to last year's RAW that was the go-home show. You have to compare this to last year's post-SummerSlam show

Last year, 8/20/2018 (post-show to SummerSlam)
8PM: 3,110,000
9PM: 3,241,000
10PM: 2,936,000

This year
H1- 2.772M
H2- 2.820M
H3- 2.595M

Last year's least-watched hour had more viewers than any hour this year. Its still about a double digit drop for every hour to the comparable show last year. 
This was also the first post-SummerSlam show in 26 years where the show didn't have at least one hour do 3 million viewers and get an overall number of 3 million or better.
Last year's go-home show still slightly beat this show's post-PPV bump show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Post Summerslam Raw

2018: 3.095 M(Last Raw to average 3M+)

2019: 2.729 M

Not bad at all.


----------



## ClintDagger

rexmundi said:


> Just a point of note. Last year's Summerslam was held on 8-19-2018. Therefore we are comparing the rating of a post ppv bump Summerslam to a go home show for Summerslam 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :fact


Ah, good call. Last year’s post SS show did like 3.1 million avg.



Showstopper said:


> Post Summerslam Raw
> 
> 2018: 3.095 M(Last Raw to average 3M+)
> 
> 2019: 2.729 M
> 
> Not bad at all.


That’s more like 13% versus 3%. Seeing that makes me back off how optimistic I was about this number.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Post Summerslam Raw
> 
> 2018: 3.095 M(Last Raw to average 3M+)
> 
> 2019: 2.729 M
> 
> Not bad at all.


 That doesn't look like a 3% drop?

If my maths is correct, that's a 13.4% drop.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Good number, and I thought RAW was pretty good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> That doesn't look like a 3% drop?


Yeah, it's alittle bit more. Guy on the Observer thread got it wrong. Still not a big drop considering the drops we've seen over the years. 3.09 million to 2.73 million. Not the big massive drop some people thought we'd get.


----------



## SPCDRI

Ace said:


> That doesn't look like a 3% drop?
> 
> If my maths is correct, that's a 13.4% drop.


Its not, its a 12 percent drop. The actually lost to last year's go-home show to SummerSlam with this year's post-PPV bump show.


----------



## Ace

Somewhat decent considering we're seeing 15-25% drops most weeks.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Also one of the better ratings in terms of holding the audience, only a 6.5% drop from Hour 1 to 3, typically it's higher.


----------



## SPCDRI

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Also one of the better ratings in terms of holding the audience, only a 6.5% drop from Hour 1 to 3, typically it's higher.


Yeah, recently, with what the company and the wrestlers are doing now, they have saved the third hour from being a ridiculous death hour with about half a million fewer people watching than hour 1 and flirting with 2 million flat or going below 2 million.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Also one of the better ratings in terms of holding the audience, only a 6.5% drop from Hour 1 to 3, typically it's higher.


The trend of H2 being the peak is interesting. That’s really helping H3 whenever that happens.


----------



## SPCDRI

ClintDagger said:


> The trend of H2 being the peak is interesting. That’s really helping H3 whenever that happens.


That's the big takeaway, and its consistent, their little drop between hour 1 and hour 2. Sometimes a few times, Hour 2 gets more people watching than hour 1. That was very, very rare. There was even a show within the past month I think where hour 1 had the least amount of viewers and the show managed to grow fairly significantly in viewers from that hour 1. 

its hard to argue with the numbers. THANK YOU PAUL E. DANGEROUSLY

:heyman6


----------



## Ace

House show business is still trash :vincecry


----------



## Randy Lahey

ClintDagger said:


> Ah, good call. Last year’s post SS show did like 3.1 million avg.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s more like 13% versus 3%. Seeing that makes me back off how optimistic I was about this number.


Yeah, 13% drop is quite normal this year. Although, better than the 20-25% drop they were averaging when pushing Seth and AJ after Wrestlemania.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Only 200K less viewers than the post WM episode of RAW. Not bad at all. They're featuring the women in the mid card and Seth as the main attraction. That's the way it should be. On occasion they can give the ladies the main event segments or matches on RAW.


----------



## llj

SPCDRI said:


> That's the big takeaway, and its consistent, there little drop between hour 1 and hour 2. Sometimes a few times, Hour 2 gets more people watching than hour 1. That was very, very rare. There was even a show within the past month I think where hour 1 had the least amount of viewers and the show managed to grow fairly significantly in viewers from that hour 1.
> 
> its hard to argue with the numbers. THANK YOU PAUL E. DANGEROUSLY
> 
> :heyman6


Who knew that taking Baron and Lacey off TV would help so much:laugh:


----------



## Randy Lahey

Did H2 have Stone Cold doing his skype interview?


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Did H2 have Stone Cold doing his skype interview?


Yep, Steve Austin was featured in the 2nd hour.

Anyway, I fully expect the ratings to decrease later this fall if the quality of the shows don't improve.


----------



## rexmundi

Next week the KOTR tournament will be compared to the Summerslam 2018 results show, so expect a steeper drop in the year to year numbers.


----------



## Seafort

The 2.7M is exactly where I thought they would end up. If not for the NFL, I think that a 3M average would be achievable by year's end.

The show now has enough of a pulse where they can pull back in viewers that were recently disenfranchised.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

ClintDagger said:


> That’s an incredible rating.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Brock was very much needed. Him losing clean is probably the biggest reason for that rating. People have been waiting for that for 5 years.


Eh, I'd say a good portion of them got tired of waiting and stopped watching a long time ago.

Anyway, he wasn't there, and he didn't need to be there. And really, what would he have even done? Beat up Rollins again, like he's been doing for the last month? Same old thing?

Not needed. 

If they bring him back, they need to give him something else to do. Have someone make fun of him losing to Rollins and roll a new feud off of that.


----------



## bradatar

They really going with this angle now Jesus Christ shane fuck off dude 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chronoxiong

Happy about this week's rating. One of the better ratings in recent memory. Still got a lot of work to do though with NFL around the corner.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mifune Jackson said:


> Eh, I'd say a good portion of them got tired of waiting and stopped watching a long time ago.
> 
> Anyway, he wasn't there, and he didn't need to be there. And really, what would he have even done? Beat up Rollins again, like he's been doing for the last month? Same old thing?
> 
> Not needed.
> 
> If they bring him back, they need to give him something else to do. Have someone make fun of him losing to Rollins and roll a new feud off of that.


There’s no doubt a lot of people stopped watching. Their max is probably about 3 million, so to hit 90% of that in the summer and not WM season is doing ok. But if you think they get that rating with Seth beating AJ or someone other than Brock you’re dreaming. Brock taking a real “L” gets a lot of credit for the curiosity factor.

As far as what’s next for Brock, really nothing. They should split him from Heyman and turn him face. But they will keep going with stale Brock so it doesn’t matter. All that was left for him was to lose clean and they did that which popped a rating but now they’re out of bullets.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Rollins is a draw! Take that marks! (mostly Becky fanboys) :rollins


----------



## InexorableJourney

mmmm, no Baron Corbin and ratings skyrocket, it's almost as if there's a causal link.


----------



## rexmundi

I do commend them for announcing a Heyan interview directly after the No Way Jose match. Gotta try to do something to keep people from turning the channel.


----------



## Erik.

It's not promising that a show that shit can get a decent rating.


----------



## Freelancer

They might be turning a corner, but wait for MNF to start. Plus, we all know Vince is going to get back to re-writing the shows right before they start, its inevitable.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.546M
H2- 2.634M
H3- 2.422M
3H- 2.534M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 3.46% / + 0.088M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 8.05% / - 0.212M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 4.87% / - 0.124M )
8/19/19 Vs 8/12/19 ( - 7.15% / - 0.195M )

Demo (8/19/19 Vs 8/12/19):
H1- 0.790D Vs 0.930D
H2- 0.850D Vs 0.950D
H3- 0.790D Vs 0.870D
3H- 0.810D Vs 0.917D

Note: RAW is 4th, 2nd & 3rd by hourly demo & 6th, 4th & 9th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (8/19/19 Vs 8/20/18):
H1- 2.546M Vs 3.110M
H2- 2.634M Vs 3.241M
H3- 2.422M Vs 2.936M
3H- 2.534M Vs 3.096M ( - 18.15% / - 0.562M )

Demo (8/19/19 Vs 8/20/18):
H1- 0.790D Vs 1.040D
H2- 0.850D Vs 1.090D
H3- 0.790D Vs 1.050D
3H- 0.810D Vs 1.060D

Note: RAW this week last year was 4th, 1st & 3rd by hourly demo & 3rd, 1st & 4th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## rexmundi

Mr. Hour 3 does it again! :fuckyeah :Cocky


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2.7 last week (night after SS). 2.5 this week, up against an NFL game, too.

Excellent retaining from last week.

:bjpenn


----------



## ClintDagger

Here we go. The 200k week to week drops have begun.


----------



## rexmundi

The preseason football only drew 3M viewers. Imagine the carnage when the real season begins. :mark :banderas


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> 2.7 last week (night after SS). 2.5 this week, up against an NFL game, too.
> 
> Excellent retaining from last week.
> 
> :bjpenn


A lot of people were watching because of the possible NXT announcement.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

God damn, on par with the night after the second biggest show of the year. People are gonna be pissed.

:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## SPCDRI

Showstopper said:


> God damn, on par with the night after the second biggest show of the year. People are gonna be pissed.
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao


How so, what do you mean?


----------



## raymond1985

This number is nothing special at all. It's down 18% on the previous year. If you combine that with the 3% year on year drop last week, that works out at around a 10.5-11% year on year drop over the two weeks. The reason why this week' number is down 18% compared to 3% last week is because this week's episode is compared to the post-Summerslam show last year. 

Last year, RAW also only lost 200k viewers from the night after Summerslam to the next week's show. They drew 3.092 million the night after Summerslam, and then 2.877 million the next week. So it's almost the exact same drop off. Only percentage-wise, slightly more of the audience was retained this year than last year.


----------



## Erik.

That's shocking


----------



## Randy Lahey

I thought it would do a worse rating judging by the Raw thread on this site. Only 79 pages. They'll be under 2mils during NFL season, and nobody is going to watch NXT. it'll be as bad as 205 live was.


----------



## ClintDagger

raymond1985 said:


> This number is nothing special at all. It's down 18% on the previous year. If you combine that with the 3% year on year drop last week, that works out at around a 10.5-11% year on year drop over the two weeks. The reason why this week' number is down 18% compared to 3% last week is because this week's episode is compared to the post-Summerslam show last year.
> 
> Last year, RAW also only lost 200k viewers from the night after Summerslam to the next week's show. They drew 3.092 million the night after Summerslam, and then 2.877 million the next week. So it's almost the exact same drop off. Only percentage-wise, slightly more of the audience was retained this year than last year.


Which basically means they are on the same trajectory they were on a year ago. Which means next year’s post SummerSlam show will do 2.4MM, then the next week 2.2MM, and then they will be closing in on 1.5MM as the year wears on (if they don’t break the trend).


----------



## CMPunkRock316

These ratings are not great. Down 200k from last week pretty much following last years post Summerslam Raws. Sadly I think this week was actually a little bit better than last week (not by much).


----------



## raymond1985

Smackdown has been retaining viewers year on year better than RAW in recent weeks. 

- Smackdown's average year on year drop is around 6.5-7% over the past 2 weeks. 

- RAW's average year on year drop is around 10.5-11% over the past 2 weeks.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Gonna start posting attendance numbers, these are straight from the observer(Meltzer gets them from the venues)

8/16 Bismark ND (WWE Raw Live Event - 2,000)

8/17 Houston, TX (WWE Super Show Live Event - 5,600)

8/17 Grand Forks, ND (WWE Raw Live Event - 2,000)

8/19 St. Paul, MN (WWE Raw/Main Event TV tapings - 6,000)

8/20 Sioux Falls, SD (WWE Smackdown/205 Live TV tapings - 3,000)

EDIT: Missed a show, 8/18 Omaha, NE (WWE Smackdown Live Event - 1,200)


----------



## FITZ

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Gonna start posting attendance numbers, these are straight from the observer(Meltzer gets them from the venues)
> 
> 8/16 Bismark ND (WWE Raw Live Event - 2,000)
> 
> 8/17 Houston, TX (WWE Super Show Live Event - 5,600)
> 
> 8/17 Grand Forks, ND (WWE Raw Live Event - 2,000)
> 
> 8/19 St. Paul, MN (WWE Raw/Main Event TV tapings - 6,000)
> 
> 8/20 Sioux Falls, SD (WWE Smackdown/205 Live TV tapings - 3,000)
> 
> EDIT: Missed a show, 8/18 Omaha, NE (WWE Smackdown Live Event - 1,200)


If you think about it those numbers in North Dakota are so much more impressive than the Houston number. 

Also, the financials of these shows has me confused. I don't see how much money, if any, they can be making on some of these.


----------



## SPCDRI

How does WWE as expensive as they are, in the venues they run, make money at North and South Dakota house shows doing 1200-2000 people? If its some barely existent, brand spanking new company paying most of the wrestlers a few hundred bucks a show or a taping, yeah, I can see that. MLW would be turning cartwheels to run somewhere at 1200 people. But WWE? They are paying every mook on the roster at least 100 grand a year and they have over 9000 people to pay, and that's just the wrestlers.


----------



## ECWFanEU

SPCDRI said:


> How does WWE as expensive as they are, in the venues they run, make money at North and South Dakota house shows doing 1200-2000 people? If its some barely existent, brand spanking new company paying most of the wrestlers a few hundred bucks a show or a taping, yeah, I can see that. MLW would be turning cartwheels to run somewhere at 1200 people. But WWE? They are paying every mook on the roster at least 100 grand a year and they have over 9000 people to pay, and that's just the wrestlers.


I can only assume they do it purely for exposure and cover the costs with money from elsewhere? 

WWE to me seems much like the NFL say. They don't rely on fans in seats in the stadium to turn profit and run business, its all money from other means, TV, Sponsors etc. WWE seems the same now? They make money everywhere they can so their live shows can take the hit (it seems to be currently taking). 

Although I'm sure nobody is pleased to see 6k fans at a Raw or Smackdown taping but that's their own fault right now.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.637M
H2- 2.686M
H3- 2.260M
3H- 2.528M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( + 1.86% / + 0.049M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 15.86% / - 0.426M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 14.30% / - 0.377M )
8/26/19 Vs 8/19/19 ( - 0.24% / - 0.006M )

Demo (8/26/19 Vs 8/19/19):
H1- 0.850D Vs 0.790D
H2- 0.830D Vs 0.850D
H3- 0.710D Vs 0.790D
3H- 0.797D Vs 0.810D

Note: RAW is 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 5th, 3rd & 8th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (8/26/19 Vs 8/27/18):
H1- 2.637M Vs 3.110M
H2- 2.686M Vs 3.241M
H3- 2.260M Vs 2.936M
3H- 2.528M Vs 3.096M ( - 18.35% / - 0.568M )

Demo (8/26/19 Vs 8/27/18):
H1- 0.850D Vs 1.040D
H2- 0.830D Vs 1.090D
H3- 0.710D Vs 1.050D
3H- 0.797D Vs 1.060D

Note: RAW this week last year was 1st, 2nd & 4th by hourly demo & 3rd, 4th & 6th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Hour 1 was higher than last week's Hour 1. :sashahi

A decent number when you consider Seth was on vacation.

*8/19 RAW:

H1- 2.546M
H2- 2.634M
H3- 2.422M
3H- 2.534M

8/26 RAW:

H1- 2.637M
H2- 2.686M
H3- 2.260M
3H- 2.528M
*

Interestingly, the AJ/Braun YouTube match has 2.4M views.


----------



## Ace

Last week of passable ratings, MNF next week right? :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

They did the exact same number without their top champions? I really thought they’d do a 2.40MM or even less.


----------



## xio8ups

2.0 will be the norm soon


----------



## Dr. Jones

Ace said:


> Last week of passable ratings, MNF next week right? :lol


Regular season Monday Night Football starts Sept 9th, so two weeks.

And that is going to be brutal for WWE

Houston vs New Orleans. Two very good teams and potential division winners

Denver vs Oakland. Oakland was on Hard Knocks this year and has a lot of buzz surrounding it. Denver has a lot of fans nationwide

I know I will personally be tuning into both of these games and probably won't give tuning into Raw a second thought


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Damn near a 20% drop from last year's RAW and that Hour 2 to Hour 3 drop is *scary*.

Monday Night Football returns in two weeks. It's about to be scary hours for RAW from this point forward.


----------



## llj

Burn it down. The WWE that is. Those sub 2s can't come soon enough for me. In fact I'd even say I'm disappointed that they're kind of plateauing at 2.5ish latelt.


----------



## Seafort

llj said:


> Burn it down. The WWE that is. Those sub 2s can't come soon enough for me. In fact I'd even say I'm disappointed that they're kind of plateauing at 2.5ish latelt.


That's the thing, they're not plateauing. Heyman has provided just enough oomph to the programming to recoup some of the recently lost viewers. No one should kid themselves - if RAW was still being run in exactly the same fashion they wouldn't have risen to over 2.5M viewers. They'd be at around 1.8 to 1.9M right now. The trend prior to July was grim.


----------



## Dr. Jones

llj said:


> Burn it down. The WWE that is. Those sub 2s can't come soon enough for me. In fact I'd even say I'm disappointed that they're kind of plateauing at 2.5ish latelt.


I mean, what do they really have at this point to deter viewers from Monday Night Football?

They had all summer to plant seeds for a major angle heading into the fall and they did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it. 

Turn one of their golden boys heel? New dominant heel faction? A well written swerve angle?

What are they going to do, keep pushing people like Rollins and Richochet down our throats? Is that really going to entice people to stay glued to their tvs to watch wrestling?

Build up more heels to feel to the golden boys? Is that really going to do it?


I just don't think they have shit to offer and ratings are going to fucking tank once way better options present themselves


----------



## Ace

The Boy Wonder said:


> Hour 1 was higher than last week's Hour 1. :sashahi
> 
> A decent number when you consider Seth was on vacation.
> 
> *8/19 RAW:
> 
> H1- 2.546M
> H2- 2.634M
> H3- 2.422M
> 3H- 2.534M
> 
> 8/26 RAW:
> 
> H1- 2.637M
> H2- 2.686M
> H3- 2.260M
> 3H- 2.528M
> *
> 
> Interestingly, the AJ/Braun YouTube match has 2.4M views.


Two top stars and the Eddie Guerrero finish probably.


----------



## Jonhern

FITZ said:


> If you think about it those numbers in North Dakota are so much more impressive than the Houston number.
> 
> Also, the financials of these shows has me confused. I don't see how much money, if any, they can be making on some of these.


They have been losing money on house shows for some time now. But they need that revenue so they can keep reporting record revenue every year so even though they are losing money on them they keep doing more shows year over year.



SPCDRI said:


> How does WWE as expensive as they are, in the venues they run, make money at North and South Dakota house shows doing 1200-2000 people? If its some barely existent, brand spanking new company paying most of the wrestlers a few hundred bucks a show or a taping, yeah, I can see that. MLW would be turning cartwheels to run somewhere at 1200 people. But WWE? They are paying every mook on the roster at least 100 grand a year and they have over 9000 people to pay, and that's just the wrestlers.


They are not making money off them, they just want the revenue so it looks like they are growing each each year so they just keep running more shows. Also they are already paying the wrestlers, and they don't cover travel, so that's a sunk cost for them anyway.



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *H1- 2.637M
> H2- 2.686M
> H3- 2.260M
> 3H- 2.528M*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership:
> H2 Vs H1 ( + 1.86% / + 0.049M )
> H3 Vs H2 ( - 15.86% / - 0.426M )
> H3 Vs H1 ( - 14.30% / - 0.377M )
> 8/26/19 Vs 8/19/19 ( - 0.24% / - 0.006M )
> 
> Demo (8/26/19 Vs 8/19/19):
> H1- 0.850D Vs 0.790D
> H2- 0.830D Vs 0.850D
> H3- 0.710D Vs 0.790D
> 3H- 0.797D Vs 0.810D
> 
> Note: RAW is 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 5th, 3rd & 8th by hourly viewership.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Viewership (8/26/19 Vs 8/27/18):
> H1- 2.637M Vs 3.110M
> H2- 2.686M Vs 3.241M
> H3- 2.260M Vs 2.936M
> 3H- 2.528M Vs 3.096M ( - 18.35% / - 0.568M )
> 
> Demo (8/26/19 Vs 8/27/18):
> H1- 0.850D Vs 1.040D
> H2- 0.830D Vs 1.090D
> H3- 0.710D Vs 1.050D
> 3H- 0.797D Vs 1.060D
> 
> Note: RAW this week last year was 1st, 2nd & 4th by hourly demo & 3rd, 4th & 6th by hourly viewership.*


If you add up all the MTV Awards simulcasts, raw was blown away by them, 4.5 million, and a 1.9 demo.



Dr. Jones said:


> I mean, what do they really have at this point to deter viewers from Monday Night Football?
> 
> They had all summer to plant seeds for a major angle heading into the fall and they did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it.
> 
> Turn one of their golden boys heel? New dominant heel faction? A well written swerve angle?
> 
> What are they going to do, keep pushing people like Rollins and Richochet down our throats? Is that really going to entice people to stay glued to their tvs to watch wrestling?
> 
> Build up more heels to feel to the golden boys? Is that really going to do it?
> 
> 
> I just don't think they have shit to offer and ratings are going to fucking tank once way better options present themselves


I don't think they will lose as many viewers once football starts as people here think. Most of those people that would watch football likely already stopped watching RAW considering the massive drops year over year, those are the fans most likely to switch the channel to begin with. The people still watching is their core audience, and might not even watch real sports. Guess we will find out in a couple of weeks, will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> I don't think they will lose as many viewers once football starts as people here think. Most of those people that would watch football likely already stopped watching RAW considering the massive drops year over year, those are the fans most likely to switch the channel to begin with. The people still watching is their core audience, and might not even watch real sports. Guess we will find out in a couple of weeks, will be interesting to see what happens.


I agree. Most of the “regular guys” that watch real sports left a long time ago. There are some left of course, but the drop isn’t as noticeable as it used to be. Look at how their numbers hardly changed coming out of football season last year.

The coming decline will be a lot more about people checking out until the Rumble than anything to do with the NFL. People just assume that WWE half asses it in the Fall and into the holidays. When the Fox shows start, that will help temporarily.


----------



## Strike Force

ClintDagger said:


> I agree. Most of the “regular guys” that watch real sports left a long time ago. There are some left of course, but the drop isn’t as noticeable as it used to be. Look at how their numbers hardly changed coming out of football season last year.
> 
> The coming decline will be a lot more about people checking out until the Rumble than anything to do with the NFL. People just assume that WWE half asses it in the Fall and into the holidays. When the Fox shows start, that will help temporarily.


Correct. I'm one of those guys that follows both football and wrestling closely, and WWE will be OK because DVR views still count towards the rating. I'm betting vast majority of people do what I do: watch NFL live and catch up on Raw the next day. 

Christ, I do that even when the NFL ISN'T on. I can't imagine actually dedicating a full three hours to watching Raw. That sounds like a nightmare.


----------



## Jonhern

Strike Force said:


> Correct. I'm one of those guys that follows both football and wrestling closely, and WWE will be OK because DVR views still count towards the rating. I'm betting vast majority of people do what I do: watch NFL live and catch up on Raw the next day.
> 
> Christ, I do that even when the NFL ISN'T on. I can't imagine actually dedicating a full three hours to watching Raw. That sounds like a nightmare.


Raw actually does not get a big bounce from the +7 Dvr rating, most people who watch do it live. Which is still the most important number, the ratings posted and talked about here are the live only numbers, they don't have the live+24hr dvr viewership until a couple days later.


----------



## Strike Force

Jonhern said:


> Raw actually does not get a big bounce from the +7 Dvr rating, most people who watch do it live. Which is still the most important number, the ratings posted and talked about here are the live only numbers, they don't have the live+24hr dvr viewership until a couple days later.


Oh, you're absolutely right. Good for them, I guess. I haven't watched a Raw live since around 2005. I just can't even imagine dedicating that much time to it.


----------



## Adam Cool

It seems like the Ratings stabilized a few months ago, I remember thinking it will dib below the 2M mark


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Was watching RAW episodes from 2016. Those shows actually had fans in the upper deck. Almost every RAW this year has tarped off upper decks, even during the RTWM. And it looks awful on television no matter how hard they try to hide it.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

They just need that one star or major angle to bring in the viewers. Wwe needs to let go of the brand nonsense and create a megastar and push him or her to the moon the right way to kick things off. They almost did it with punk, Bryan and Becky but they screwed it up. I watched the 1995 and 1996 episodes of raw when Bret and hbk where champions and the arenas were half empty. As a matter of fact 1995 was way worst than 2019. It wasn’t until Austin took of in late 1996 that the arenas started to get more crowds. By late 97 Steve Austin became a household name and the arenas and viewership exploded.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.638M
H2- 2.557M
H3- 2.326M
3H- 2.507M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 3.07% / - 0.081M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 9.03% / - 0.231M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 11.83% / - 0.312M )
9/2/19 Vs 8/26/19 ( - 0.83% / - 0.021M )

Demo (9/2/19 Vs 8/26/19):
H1- 0.860D Vs 0.850D
H2- 0.840D Vs 0.830D
H3- 0.790D Vs 0.710D
3H- 0.830D Vs 0.797D

Note: RAW is 2nd, 3rd & 4th by hourly demo & 3rd, 4th & 9th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (9/2/19 Vs 9/3/18):
H1- 2.638M Vs 2.945M
H2- 2.557M Vs 2.933M
H3- 2.326M Vs 2.740M
3H- 2.507M Vs 2.873M ( - 12.74% / - 0.366M )

Demo (9/2/19 Vs 9/3/18):
H1- 0.860D Vs 0.950D
H2- 0.840D Vs 1.000D
H3- 0.790D Vs 0.970D
3H- 0.830D Vs 0.973D

Note: RAW this week last year was 6th, 3rd & 5th by hourly demo & 3rd, 4th & 5th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not terrible for a holiday.


----------



## llj




----------



## ClintDagger

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not terrible for a holiday.


I’m not sure what the historical numbers would say but in my mind Labor Day would have minimal impact on them. If they aired on Fri-Sat-Sun night I could see an impact, but by Monday night I would guess a very high percentage of people have resumed their normal routine.


----------



## Chrome

The Boy Wonder said:


> Was watching RAW episodes from 2016. Those shows actually had fans in the upper deck. Almost every RAW this year has tarped off upper decks, even during the RTWM. And it looks awful on television no matter how hard they try to hide it.


They should start trying to book smaller venues for their shows tbh.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



> – Becky Lynch helped boost the Labor Day episode of Straight Up Steve Austin to the highest ratings since the premiere. Monday night’s episode brought in a 0.44 demo rating and 1.097 million viewers, up 13% and 11% from last week’s 0.39 demo rating and 987,000 viewers. The episode was the second-best of the four episodes to date, bested only by the season premiere’s 0.48 rating and 1.211 million viewers.
> 
> Straight Up Steve Austin ranked #14 among cable originals for the night per Showbuzz Daily.


Source: https://411mania.com/wrestling/straight-up-steve-austin-ratings-jump-becky-lynch-episode/
So I guess this shuts down the "she's not a draw" or can't get people interested. :Cocky


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

He's a wrestler, his audience will be wrestling fans. The episode where he interviews another wrestler being the highest rated is hardly surprising.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Miz's show does similar numbers each week without any guests and doesn't have as strong of a lead in as Raw.


----------



## TAC41

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

There’s only been four episodes and this isn’t even the highest rated one. Just because last weeks ratings dropped by .7 doesn’t mean this week being back to normal had anything to do with Becky. 

This is one helluva desperate attempt to make Becky seem relevant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JeSeGaN

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Why do people watch this crap? He interviews D promis, who fucking cares?

At least Miz's drivel is entertaining on a bottom barrel level.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Ace said:


> Miz's show does similar numbers each week without any guests and doesn't have as strong of a lead in as Raw.


There's an argument to be made that Miz is a ratings monster.


----------



## ClintDagger

Chrome said:


> They should start trying to book smaller venues for their shows tbh.


They really should. WWE sweetens the audio to make it sound better than it is, but you look into the crowd and most people are just standing around. Even for the supposed most over stars. A smaller venue on average would up the enthusiasm quite a bit.


----------



## ClintDagger

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Already falling consistently from the debut. That show won’t last. Austin is a draw as a wrestler, not as a host.


----------



## Chan Hung

To be honest this show has never interested me


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Funny how when RAW and SD dropped to historic lows with her as the focal point "ratings didn't matter", "no one is a draw" and "it wasn't her fault", but this show sees a minor bump for 1 week and suddenly she is a draw :lol. A bit of a double standard there, but not surprising coming from their fanbase


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> Funny how when RAW and SD dropped to historic lows with her as the focal point "ratings didn't matter", "no one is a draw" and "it wasn't her fault", but this show sees a minor bump for 1 week and suddenly she is a draw :lol. A bit of a double standard there, but not surprising coming from their fanbase


You do know that I am more a fan of Austin then Becky right?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Doesn't this show air after RAW?

Wasn't she the first wrestler he had as a guest?

A show hosted by a man whose celebrity is most associated with wrestling with a guest that is a wrestler immediately following a wrestling show that said guest is prominently featured on and was featured in the MAIN EVENT of said lead-in bumped up ratings a little SHOCKING.

But hey let's look at facts here Raw did 2.507 viewers on Monday and Austin's show did 1.097 this big draw that Becky supposedly is literally lost more than 50% of her main show's audience in less than 30 minutes(in a week where said main show she appears on also dropped in numbers) so literally huge draw like people say LOL

Imagine a show airing on USA in 1998 right after Raw with the biggest star in the company(Austin) appearing on it losing more than half the lead-in's audience? I don't think so. I don't think "draw" is the right word for Becky but I also don't think these antiquated metrics for determining who is a draw and isn't a draw are particularly important or relevant or accurate.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> Funny how when RAW and SD dropped to historic lows with her as the focal point "ratings didn't matter", "no one is a draw" and "it wasn't her fault", but this show sees a minor bump for 1 week and suddenly she is a draw :lol. A bit of a double standard there, but not surprising coming from their fanbase


 Wasn't her competition Sal from Impractical Jokers and a NFL player? :lol

Hardly the big stars wrestling fans would know or care about.


----------



## Bestiswaswillbe

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Source: https://411mania.com/wrestling/straight-up-steve-austin-ratings-jump-becky-lynch-episode/
> So I guess this shuts down the "she's not a draw" or can't get people interested. :Cocky


that doesn't prove shes a draw beyond wrestling dorks at all. You aren't serious are you?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Ace said:


> Wasn't her competition Sal from Impractical Jokers and a NFL player? :lol
> 
> Hardly the big stars wrestling fans would know or care about.


A football player for the Cleveland Browns no less. 

Don't forget Rob Riggle. People may actually know who he is. 

now I live in Toronto and don't get USA and haven't watched Austin's show and had to do painstaking research on google to see who has been on his show thus far.




Bestiswaswillbe said:


> that doesn't prove shes a draw beyond wrestling dorks at all. You aren't serious are you?


It doesn't even prove that much. "She" literally lost more than 50% of the lead-in(average audience). Now it likely isn't just on her that Austin's show failed to hold on to its lead because it's entirely possible that people don't want to watch Austin's show in general but still it's a strange look to be pumping up this marginal increase in viewers as proving she's a "draw".


----------



## Bestiswaswillbe

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> It doesn't even prove that much. "She" literally lost more than 50% of the lead-in(average audience). Now it likely isn't just on her that Austin's show failed to hold on to its lead because it's entirely possible that people don't want to watch Austin's show in general but still it's a strange look to be pumping up this marginal increase in viewers as proving she's a "draw".


Apparently "this shuts down the she's not a draw" argument. Good god thank fuck I'm not a mod. I would make ridiculous statements a one week ban.


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

I love it how the responders to these threads are the delusional haters :lmao :lmao 
It's more funny how they bring up irrelevant stuff to try and make a point. Just as desperate as the geeks attempting to discredit the ESPN cover.

Bottom line, Becky increased the ratings on a public holiday. Go cry about it.



Ace said:


> Miz's show does similar numbers each week without any guests and doesn't have as strong of a lead in as Raw.


Completely irrelevant. 



MonkasaurusRex said:


> It doesn't even prove that much. "She" literally lost more than 50% of the lead-in(average audience). Now it likely isn't just on her that Austin's show failed to hold on to its lead because it's entirely possible that people don't want to watch Austin's show in general but still it's a strange look to be pumping up this marginal increase in viewers as proving she's a "draw".


this is the most desperate attempt at reaching I have ever seen. I know you ate A LOT of shit and are bitter because you kept talking for months last year how Becky would be losing steam and won't be over once she stops feuding with Charlotte, and here she is 1 year later still the top dog  so just deal with it, hater.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



The Definition of Technician said:


> this is the most desperate attempt at reaching I have ever seen. I know you ate A LOT of shit and are bitter because you kept talking for months last year how Becky would be losing steam and won't be over once she stops feuding with Charlotte, and here she is 1 year later still the top dog  so just deal with it, hater.


I know you follow me around like a lost puppy and all(and take other people's opinions far too seriously) but you need to either follow entire conversations or at least comprehend the entire portion of the proceedings that you are taking umbrage with.

BW her succeeding beyond my expectations is fucking awesome so I don't get where this idea that I hate Becky comes from. I'm just honest about my feelings and opinions and when I'm wrong it's okay because they don't write the show specifically for me. I like other things that they present which means I'm not too concerned with me not enjoying her act.

Aside from that I merely stated that losing half of the audience from the show that she is "the star"(for all intents and purposes of course) isn't an optic that you want to draw attention to. It's a rough picture. That's not an opinion it's just true. The same would go for anyone in that situation. It doesn't mean it's on her which if you actually read what I wrote you'd notice I mentioned openly and earlier I literally threw away this viewer based metric's merit in general. For reference sake sir*


MonkasaurusRex said:



Imagine a show airing on USA in 1998 right after Raw with the biggest star in the company(Austin) appearing on it losing more than half the lead-in's audience? I don't think so. I don't think "draw" is the right word for Becky but I also don't think these antiquated metrics for determining who is a draw and isn't a draw are particularly important or relevant or accurate.

Click to expand...

*

Also, I have worked in TV and the numbers don't lie. While she drew more viewers to Austin's show than the week prior(And she is, of course, the focal point of that episode and should be credited with doing such a thing) the correlation between being heavily featured on Raw directly preceding said episode of Straight Up Steve Austin and the relative data like the loss of the lead-in can't be ignored from a *generalized viewer interest and related business perspective* is difficult to ignore. It's an indication that less than half of the audience that watches Raw live on USA has any interest in more Becky Lynch outside the confines of the wrestling show itself. That isn't a bad thing necessarily because you can argue that it is better than other wrestlers would have done in the same situation and you can damn well bet that includes several of the high-profile performers. As well as the main measure of her success is the wrestling show. What it may be indicative of is that Austin's how isn't taking full advantage of its lead-in.


I do however question any fan that worries about whether or not their favourite is a 'draw" or not. It's a strange thing to worry about IMO.



Dismissing the fact that Miz & Mrs. draws similar numbers to Straight Up Steve Austin(especially one featuring a wrestler as the guest) without the luxury of the Raw lead-in as completely irrelevant couldn't be farther from the truth. There is a direct link that makes comparison completely relevant and that is the wrestling fanbase is where the interest in the show will be attempting to draw its audience from. SUSA is directly following RAW which as it stands today is the most prolifically watched wrestling program on the planet thus you would think that a high concentration of the audience would at least be interested in sticking around to see more of "the star" of the show they watch every Monday night. The fact that Miz and Mrs can do these type of numbers without being led into by Raw and instead by SD(and by the time season two arrives potentially no wrestling unless it moves to Mondays or Wednesdays even then it's unknown if Miz will be on either show or featured prominently for that matter) which itself maintains a lower average viewership than Raw means that either general viewer interest is higher for Miz and Mrs, it's better at maintaining its wrestling lead-in, or a combination of the two. If you want to take this data at face value it would indicate that even though Becky Lynch is the "star" of Raw and maybe even ostensibly WWE at this point that the Miz is a far more recognizable celebrity than Becky Lynch outside of the wrestling bubble. That's not an opinion it's literally in the numbers.


----------



## xio8ups

ARE YOU READDYYYYYYYYYYY FOR SOME FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBTALLLLLLLLLLL


----------



## validreasoning

Impressive numbers went up against the end of the season opener college football game too



Ace said:


> Miz's show does similar numbers each week without any guests and doesn't have as strong of a lead in as Raw.


Miz shows airs at 10pm though so prime time.

11pm pretty much ensures you won't get kids watching for one or many older folks.


ClintDagger said:


> Already falling consistently from the debut. That show won’t last. Austin is a draw as a wrestler, not as a host.


It will get second season unless it costs a bomb to produce or hire Austin to host. It's produced in-house by USA and does similar numbers to the most watched non Raw/SD stuff on USA.


Chan Hung said:


> To be honest this show has never interested me


Mondays show was really fun. I mean it's 30 minutes so super easy watch. In a month hardcore fans will be watching 9 hours of wrestling a week on prime time not counting ppv weeks.


----------



## SINdicate

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Whether Becky's appearance did or _didn't_ increase ratings is neither here nor there. WWE's _ratings_ or lack thereof are so inconsistent on a week to week basis that it really only takes a handful more people to tune it for it to become news.

It doesn't help matters when the head-honcho's behind the scenes tactically sell their shares to make it look like the company is performing well and exceeding expectations when, really, they're in big time fucking trouble that they haven't been in for a long time.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



validreasoning said:


> Impressive numbers went up against the end of the season opener college football game too
> 
> 
> 
> Miz shows airs at 10pm though so prime time.
> 
> 11pm pretty much ensures you won't get kids watching for one or many older folks.
> 
> 
> It will get second season unless it costs a bomb to produce or hire Austin to host. It's produced in-house by USA and does similar numbers to the most watched non Raw/SD stuff on USA.
> 
> 
> Mondays show was really fun. I mean it's 30 minutes so super easy watch. In a month hardcore fans will be watching 9 hours of wrestling a week on prime time not counting ppv weeks.


 So?

Doesn't change the fact this has a far smaller lead in, nowhere as much promotion from WWE, no guests and is in its second season. Monday is apparently a better night for TV too.


----------



## AliFrazier100

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

I remember when Sable appeared on a Pacific Blue that aired right after a Sunday Night Heat and I think they said it was the highest rated episode to that point.


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Good for Steve & Becky not bad numbers for labor day


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



validreasoning said:


> Impressive numbers went up against the end of the season opener college football game too
> 
> 
> 
> Miz shows airs at 10pm though so prime time.
> 
> 11pm pretty much ensures you won't get kids watching for one or many older folks.
> 
> 
> It will get second season unless it costs a bomb to produce or hire Austin to host. It's produced in-house by USA and does similar numbers to the most watched non Raw/SD stuff on USA.
> 
> 
> Mondays show was really fun. I mean it's 30 minutes so super easy watch. In a month hardcore fans will be watching 9 hours of wrestling a week on prime time not counting ppv weeks.





The 10 pm timeslot does indeed play a bit of a factor but even the demo(18-34) numbers are similar and that eliminates the timeslot advantage that airing at 10 pm may offer. You just replace the total viewer numbers for all the relevant shows with the corresponding demo rating and the data will still yield similar results. In fact, that 18-34 demographic is the most likely demographic to watch TV beyond 11 pm. After that strength of lead-in and any other factor previously discussed stays relatively unchanged.

As previously stated these are not numbers that accurately represent the relative drawing power within wrestling of any performer mentioned just a baseline general audience awareness metric. People need to understand that before they get up in arms about data because things like genre, format, how long shows have been on, what else is on TV, day of the week etc all have their own effect on the TV numbers. It's a big reason as to why TV numbers are an absolute garbage metric for determining if a specific performer is a draw or not. You can't attribute an entire episode of Raw's tv rating to Becky Lynch or anyone else for that matter. Besides who draws or doesn't draw is a matter that only the bean counters at WWE should be worrying about. As fans, you like who you like and if you need other people to agree with you then IMO you don't actually like the thing you are claiming to like.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Sometimes I question if Becky lynch’s irrational haters think twice before typing. Becky lynch is a draw deal with it and all metrics prove this.

Television ratings: Good grief are we in 1999? Nobody watches television anymore. Everyone streamlines everything. I am a huge Becky fan but I am not gonna watch 3 hours of no show especially not Monday night raw. I get notifications on wwe twitter and when Becky segment comes on, I turn on USA and turn it off when she’s done. Also I don’t know why people hate on Becky and Seth as champions but people love Bret and hbk when hbk was the lowest drawing champion of all time. 1995 was wwe’s worst ever year drawing wise and that was when they had Scott hall, Nash, hbk and Bret. It just shows u that a proper booked show supersedes talent. 
Social media engagements: Becky has the highest rated engagements among current wwe stars along with Roman reigns.
Merchandise: Becky sells more merch than anyone in this company. 
In today’s environment she’s a draw. Wwe has the top rated shows on USA, Becky is selling merch and her brand is growing.

People keep saying she’s driving audiences away????. Audiences have been going away ever since the attitude era ended. Becky has nothing to do with the audience going away. How can becky drive audiences away when for the past 4 years wwe pushed a guy who main evented 4 manias with bad booking. If anyone pushed audiences away it was Vince McMahon. Just like he pushed audiences away in 1995 and he got them back by 98 when he changed the creative direction of his company. Yea keep blaming Becky even though she’s one of the shinning lights in this trash company.


----------



## validreasoning

Ace said:


> So?
> 
> Doesn't change the fact this has a far smaller lead in, nowhere as much promotion from WWE, no guests and is in its second season. Monday is apparently a better night for TV too.


It's not far smaller lead in. Raw at 10pm did 2.3 million while SD last few weeks has been 2.1 million

Promotion wise it's similar, both shows are advertised during commercial breaks of raw and sd

Miz and Mrs is more aimed towards female reality type tv audience. Not sure who Austin show is aimed at outside maybe Austin fans.

But the fact it went up against the end of the football game and last Monday was labor day one of the biggest us holidays is impressive to see viewers rise. Last week had no competition head to head and no public holiday


----------



## BlackieDevil

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

WWE did it. They manage to fuck Taker up with the pointless returns, HBK never goes away. The fuckin' Rock fucked up his legacy with that pointless "mania match" with Rowan and now STONE COLD STEVE MOTHERFUCKIN' AUSTIN takes a goddamn stunner from Seth's boyfriend. Preposterous.


----------



## deepelemblues

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

:loweringangle

opcorn

Some of you guys obsess over and try to pick apart Nielsen numbers down to the bone more than the guys getting paid 40 grand a year by whichever TV network employs them to obsess over Nielsen numbers and pick them apart down to the bone :lol


----------



## J0nMoxley

Like someone said, The Miz tv show draws the same amount.


----------



## JeSeGaN

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



BlackieDevil said:


> WWE did it. They manage to fuck Taker up with the pointless returns, HBK never goes away. The fuckin' Rock fucked up his legacy with that pointless "mania match" with Rowan and now STONE COLD STEVE MOTHERFUCKIN' AUSTIN takes a goddamn stunner from Seth's boyfriend. Preposterous.


It's the call of $$$, baby. 

Those 'legends' need that money. Why do you think HBK, Taker and Oldberg never fuck off?


----------



## Strike Force

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Viewership:
> H2 Vs H1 ( - 3.07% / - 0.081M )
> H3 Vs H2 ( - 9.03% / - 0.231M )
> H3 Vs H1 ( - 11.83% / - 0.312M )
> 9/2/19 Vs 8/26/19 ( - 0.83% / - 0.021M )
> *


*

Ooof. Down almost 13% YOY. Aligns roughly with broader market trends, but still, hard numbers to swallow.*


----------



## ClintDagger

Strike Force said:


> Ooof. Down almost 13% YOY. Aligns roughly with broader market trends, but still, hard numbers to swallow.


Those stats will be interesting to watch when they go to Fox with SD. As far as cable / sat TV goes, Raw has been dropping about 4x to 5x more than the overall contraction of pay tv viewers per annum. Proving that their issue goes far beyond just market trends.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mordecay said:


> Funny how when RAW and SD dropped to historic lows with her as the focal point "ratings didn't matter", "no one is a draw" and "it wasn't her fault", but this show sees a minor bump for 1 week and suddenly she is a draw :lol. A bit of a double standard there, but not surprising coming from their fanbase


I don’t think people seriously look at this and try to say Becky is a draw based on this, do they? I assume the people saying that are doing so tongue in cheek. If serious. The only thing this shows is that she’s a slightly bigger draw with people still watching Raw at 11p than the Browns QB and the dude from Impractical Jokers, and less of a draw than the dumb cop from Hangover. It’s already been established based on Raw’s ratings trends how every person at the top affects the rating.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



ClintDagger said:


> *I don’t think people seriously look at this and try to say Becky is a draw based on this, do they?* I assume the people saying that are doing so tongue in cheek. If serious. The only thing this shows is that she’s a slightly bigger draw with people still watching Raw at 11p than the Browns QB and the dude from Impractical Jokers, and less of a draw than the dumb cop from Hangover. It’s already been established based on Raw’s ratings trends how every person at the top affects the rating.


You really don't know the Becky Lynch fanbase do you? I guess is better if you don't :lol


----------



## Ace

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> You really don't know the Becky Lynch fanbase do you? I guess is better if you don't :lol


 Becky electrifying those 10s of thousands who live in their mothers basements.


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



MonkasaurusRex said:


> I know you follow me around like a lost puppy and all(and take other people's opinions far too seriously) but you need to either follow entire conversations or at least comprehend the entire portion of the proceedings that you are taking umbrage with.


No you delusional Psychopath. Becky Lynch is my favorite wrestler and naturally I read the threads about her. And it's the same geeks in every thread looking to downplay anything she does, and you're one of the worst " I think she's a terrible wrestler and ugly and her promos are cinge and she's not over and she pushes elderly down the stairs and skin puppies alive BUT I'M A FAN". Oh Please, stop pretending and admit it. Doing backhanded compliments or by shitting on her saying she lost half the viewers but "ratings don't matter". yeah ok. 



> BW her succeeding beyond my expectations is fucking awesome so I don't get where this idea that I hate Becky comes from. I'm just honest about my feelings and opinions and when I'm wrong it's okay because they don't write the show specifically for me. I like other things that they present which means I'm not too concerned with me not enjoying her act.
> 
> 
> Aside from that I merely stated that losing half of the audience from the show that she is "the star"(for all intents and purposes of course) isn't an optic that you want to draw attention to. It's a rough picture. That's not an opinion it's just true. The same would go for anyone in that situation. It doesn't mean it's on her which if you actually read what I wrote you'd notice I mentioned openly and earlier I literally threw away this viewer based metric's merit in general. For reference sake sir


In your "reference". You are comparing TV now to the 90's. Anyone who still does that should stop commenting. 





> Also, I have worked in TV and the numbers don't lie. While she drew more viewers to Austin's show than the week prior(And she is, of course, the focal point of that episode and should be credited with doing such a thing) the correlation between being heavily featured on Raw directly preceding said episode of Straight Up Steve Austin and the relative data like the loss of the lead-in can't be ignored from a *generalized viewer interest and related business perspective* is difficult to ignore. It's an indication that less than half of the audience that watches Raw live on USA has any interest in more Becky Lynch outside the confines of the wrestling show itself. That isn't a bad thing necessarily because you can argue that it is better than other wrestlers would have done in the same situation and you can damn well bet that includes several of the high-profile performers. As well as the main measure of her success is the wrestling show. What it may be indicative of is that Austin's how isn't taking full advantage of its lead-in.


numbers don't lie? people have been making shit assumptions about wrestlers for years now. We no longer have the quarterly metrics and yet you see geeks pretending someone who appears 5min-15min on a 3h show being blamed solely for it. Numbers may not lie but they sure as hell don't tell the whole story. Anyone can spin the story like they want to now. I can say that if it was at 10pm following the lead on a non-holiday, she would have drew even MUCH more. Can you prove me wrong? and while it could be that _"It's an indication that less than half of the audience that watches Raw live on USA has any interest in more Becky Lynch outside the confines of the wrestling show itself." _ or it could be that people are fucking tired after the long holiday, or still doing something else, or this 30min with Austin you know.. CAN BE WATCHED LATER ON THE INTERNET. Shocking right? I'm sure there's NO ONE of the people that tuned out after RAW was gona check the episode RIGHT? 




> I do however question any fan that worries about whether or not their favourite is a 'draw" or not. It's a strange thing to worry about IMO


.

She's the top 2 most over wrestlers today and has been on average the #1 over the past year by far, and *she is the top merch seller*. Her being or not a draw is not something I worry about  



> Dismissing the fact that Miz & Mrs. draws similar numbers to Straight Up Steve Austin(especially one featuring a wrestler as the guest) without the luxury of the Raw lead-in as completely irrelevant couldn't be farther from the truth. There is a direct link that makes comparison completely relevant and that is the wrestling fanbase is where the interest in the show will be attempting to draw its audience from. SUSA is directly following RAW which as it stands today is the most prolifically watched wrestling program on the planet thus you would think that a high concentration of the audience would at least be interested in sticking around to see more of "the star" of the show they watch every Monday night. The fact that Miz and Mrs can do these type of numbers without being led into by Raw and instead by SD(and by the time season two arrives potentially no wrestling unless it moves to Mondays or Wednesdays even then it's unknown if Miz will be on either show or featured prominently for that matter) which itself maintains a lower average viewership than Raw means that either general viewer interest is higher for Miz and Mrs, it's better at maintaining its wrestling lead-in, or a combination of the two. If you want to take this data at face value it would indicate that even though Becky Lynch is the "star" of Raw and maybe even ostensibly WWE at this point that the Miz is a far more recognizable celebrity than Becky Lynch outside of the wrestling bubble. That's not an opinion it's literally in the numbers.


You are literally comparing two COMPLETELY different show-concepts, one that starts at 10pm, the other at 11pm AND WAS ON A PUBLIC HOLIDAY.
I do hope Miz and Mrs start airing on Monday after RAW to see your argument unfold more.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> Funny how when RAW and SD dropped to historic lows with her as the focal point "ratings didn't matter", "no one is a draw" and "it wasn't her fault", but this show sees a minor bump for 1 week and suddenly she is a draw :lol. A bit of a double standard there, but not surprising coming from their fanbase


That's not a double standard. 

Raw and Smackdown shows falling is something that can be for a large variety of reasons, and it is these reasons we know nothing of. We can't put it on one person and we most certainly can't put it on the person who not too long ago was leading the entire company in merchandise sales. For all we know, she's the only one bringing in new fans while everyone else is leaving because of the other people on the show. We don't know, because we have no rating breakdowns to back this up (something I have stated an ungodly amount of times too on this site might I add, I don't know why I need to continue to explain this). 

In this case, Austin brought Becky Lynch along and the ratings went up. That's one person. It's still not everything and for all we know it could be for different reasons, but there's very good reason here to believe that the bump in ratings is due to Becky. Me? I'm not going to make any guess as to what it is, since I don't have definite proof and I don't care. Austin is my all time favorite wrestler but I have no interest in this show. But with that said, we really need to stop with this idea that the focal point of Raw and Smackdown is to blame for ratings dropping when ratings have been dropping steadily for years and we have nothing to showcase whether or not she is the reason. It's not only a lazy argument, it's nit picking. A person who doesn't enjoy said wrestler shouldn't be using what they draw from a ratings standpoint in their argument, because most of us honestly don't care.


----------



## Zappers

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

I wonder if Becky being in the main event match on RAW, then seamlessly going into the Austin's show had anything to do with it.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



AlternateDemise said:


> That's not a double standard.
> 
> Raw and Smackdown shows falling is something that can be for a large variety of reasons, and it is these reasons we know nothing of. We can't put it on one person and we most certainly can't put it on the person who not too long ago was leading the entire company in merchandise sales. For all we know, she's the only one bringing in new fans while everyone else is leaving because of the other people on the show. We don't know, because we have no rating breakdowns to back this up (something I have stated an ungodly amount of times too on this site might I add, I don't know why I need to continue to explain this).
> 
> In this case, Austin brought Becky Lynch along and the ratings went up. That's one person. It's still not everything and for all we know it could be for different reasons, but there's very good reason here to believe that the bump in ratings is due to Becky. Me? I'm not going to make any guess as to what it is, since I don't have definite proof and I don't care. Austin is my all time favorite wrestler but I have no interest in this show. But with that said, we really need to stop with this idea that the focal point of Raw and Smackdown is to blame for ratings dropping when ratings have been dropping steadily for years and we have nothing to showcase whether or not she is the reason. It's not only a lazy argument, it's nit picking. A person who doesn't enjoy said wrestler shouldn't be using what they draw from a ratings standpoint in their argument, because most of us honestly don't care.


I am sorry, but if the show where you are the focus consistently drops in the ratings (to record lows, 30% drop from the previous year when the usual was 10-12% drop year to year I may add) and as soon as you stop being featured as much the ratings go up it means something. Also, since Heyman took over Meltzer has been reporting the most and least watched segments, and Becky usually is not in the most watched segment, in fact she was in one of the 2 least watched segments on RAW this week.


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> I am sorry, but if the show where you are the focus consistently drops in the ratings (to record lows, 30% drop from the previous year I may add) and as soon as you stop being featured as much the ratings go up it means something.


Not really. The ratings typically go back up in the summer and then go back down. Hell they're going down now as we speak.



Mordecay said:


> Also, since Heyman took over Meltzer has been reporting the most and least watched segments, and Becky usually is not in the most watched segment, in fact she was in one of the 2 least watched segments on RAW this week.


You mean the segment that involved Bayley turning heel and Sasha Banks? The one that happened at the very end of the show? You know, the part of Raw that usually has the least amount of viewers watching at that point? This was supposed to be a match with fucking Alexa Bliss in it and she's featured almost just as much. Why is she getting a pass? 

See what I'm doing here? I'm naming other very legitimate reasons that have been a factor before in the past and am using them against your argument. I am in no way saying those are the main reasons without question. Hell for all I know you could be right and they are because of Becky. But we don't have anything to show for it. And there's always a variety of reasons as to why people decide to stop watching at that point. We can't pin everything down to one person. You're already wrong just from a factual standpoint, but what's worse is that at that point you don't even have actual evidence to back it up.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Becky’s haters are more pathetic than her fans. Why are u guys so desperate to tear that this woman over every little article? Seems to me guys that do this come of as very insecure in their manhood. Then u have some clowns that say shit like Becky fans live in their moms basement. Jokes on u pal I don’t live in my moms basement I have a freaking mortgage meaning i own my home.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Mordecay said:


> I am sorry, but if the show where you are the focus consistently drops in the ratings (to record lows, 30% drop from the previous year when the usual was 10-12% drop year to year I may add) and as soon as you stop being featured as much the ratings go up it means something. Also, since Heyman took over Meltzer has been reporting the most and least watched segments, and Becky usually is not in the most watched segment, in fact she was in one of the 2 least watched segments on RAW this week.


 To be fair, Meltzer said Ronda/Becky were getting top segment slots. But he did so they were in the prominent spots and you can't say they couldn't have done better with something else.

He also said people might not be ready for the women to be at the top of the card yet when talking about the ratings dying.



Tk Adeyemi said:


> Becky’s haters are more pathetic than her fans. Why are u guys so desperate to tear that this woman over every little article? Seems to me guys that do this come of as very insecure in their manhood. Then u have some clowns that say shit like Becky fans live in their moms basement. *Jokes on u pal I don’t live in my moms basement I have a freaking mortgage meaning i own my home.*


 The fact you felt the need to explain yourself is enough for me to consider it a win :lmao


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Every little article about Becky lynch turns into a ratings trashing by you sad pathetic haters. Take a look at yourself hating on a woman for making it to the top of her profession. You have to be a very sad sad person just to go in her threads just to trash her. Good grief I don’t like Charlotte but I am not gonna go in her thread every 5 seconds just to trash her. There really are some sad losers in here. Then you have some on here who bash Becky’s male fans by saying we live in our moms basements. Good grief you really think that? Jokes on u pal since i have a mortgage. You guys need to chill, there’s constructive criticism and there’s baiting Becky fans.

Another thing for u guys obsessing about ratings, you act like u get paid when wwe has a ratings high. Good God get a life, obsessing over Nelson’s scans. You have to be a very sad sad clown to obsess over pointless stuff like that. It would be like me obsessing over the wwe stock price. Good thing the internet was in its infancy in 1995, if not u would have people on here destroying hbk and Bret Hart.


----------



## Zappers

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



AlternateDemise said:


> That's not a double standard.
> 
> Raw and Smackdown shows falling is something that can be for a large variety of reasons, and it is these reasons we know nothing of. We can't put it on one person and we most certainly can't put it on the person who not too long ago was leading the entire company in merchandise sales. For all we know, she's the only one bringing in new fans while everyone else is leaving because of the other people on the show. We don't know, because we have no rating breakdowns to back this up (something I have stated an ungodly amount of times too on this site might I add, I don't know why I need to continue to explain this).
> 
> In this case, Austin brought Becky Lynch along and the ratings went up. That's one person. It's still not everything and for all we know it could be for different reasons, but there's very good reason here to believe that the bump in ratings is due to Becky. Me? I'm not going to make any guess as to what it is, since I don't have definite proof and I don't care. Austin is my all time favorite wrestler but I have no interest in this show. But with that said, we really need to stop with this idea that the focal point of Raw and Smackdown is to blame for ratings dropping when ratings have been dropping steadily for years and we have nothing to showcase whether or not she is the reason. It's not only a lazy argument, it's nit picking. A person who doesn't enjoy said wrestler shouldn't be using what they draw from a ratings standpoint in their argument, because most of us honestly don't care.




See here's the problem. Becky is/was the focal point of the major driving story in the entire company for several months. Becky forced down everyone's throats non stop, regardless if you liked it or not. Everything else was an afterthought. They did exhausting promotions, first ever women's headline WM.... the ratings didn't budge.

Who do you suppose we blame? EC3?


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

No u blame Vince McMahon because ratings have been dropping since the attitude era. So in 1995 when ratings were trash who did u blame? Bret Hart, hbk, diesel, razor?


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Zappers said:


> See here's the problem. Becky is/was the focal point of the m*ajor driving story in the entire company for several months.* Becky forced down everyone's throats non stop, regardless if you liked it or not. Everything else was an afterthought. They did exhausting promotions, first ever women's headline WM.... the ratings didn't budge.
> 
> Who do you suppose we blame? EC3?


What?? I thought they stopped giving the women attention after 2 weeks when Kofimania and Batista/HHH were happening and Lesnar appeared more. Stop changing your mind, stop rewriting history, and stop exaggerating.
You haters need to do a small gathering and get your story straight :lmao 



Mordecay said:


> Also, since Heyman took over Meltzer has been reporting the most and least watched segments, and Becky *usually is not *in the most watched segment, in fact she was in one of the 2 least watched segments on RAW this week.


So sometimes SHE ACTUALLY IS? hmmm.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

People still make fun of Diesel and HBK for not drawing in the mid 90's :shrug.



The Definition of Technician said:


> So sometimes SHE ACTUALLY IS? hmmm.


I think she has once or twice. You know who else has been? Nikki Cross, Ricochet, fucking Cedric Alexander, but neither of them has been pushed as the "face of the company"


----------



## somerandomfan

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Reading through this thread made me question why I even read through some of these threads.

I found it entertaining but seems like a big stretch acting like it's a huge deal that the episode with most crossover appeal with the lead in and happens to be on a holiday is some huge indication of being a draw, also how much argument there is about the difference between a show at 11PM with RAW as a lead in versus a show at 10 with SmackDown as a lead in that both star wrestlers, I don't know if the obsessive fans or the haters are grasping at straws more.


----------



## llj

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

I have a theory that certain wrestlers are popular but that doesn't necessarily mean their fans watch everything they are in.

It's a bit like comic books. People will say they like Spider-Man but at least 80% of them haven't picked up a Spider-Man comic in the last 15 years. Just because they like Spider-Man doesn't mean they are going to follow the fucking Clone Saga storyline, or a "Norman Osborn raped Gwen Stacy" shitty retcon


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1169665446532067328


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



Zappers said:


> See here's the problem. Becky is/was the focal point of the major driving story in the entire company for several months. Becky forced down everyone's throats non stop, regardless if you liked it or not. Everything else was an afterthought. They did exhausting promotions, first ever women's headline WM.... the ratings didn't budge.
> 
> Who do you suppose we blame? EC3?


Blame the WWE, for putting on a terrible product and turning almost every good thing they somehow manage to create into shit. Blame WWE for not being able to understand their audience and turning the overall product into the exact opposite of what fans have been asking for. Don't blame the talent. Blame the people who don't know how to use them.


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*



llj said:


> I have a theory that certain wrestlers are popular but that doesn't necessarily mean their fans watch everything they are in.
> 
> It's a bit like comic books. People will say they like Spider-Man but at least 80% of them haven't picked up a Spider-Man comic in the last 15 years. Just because they like Spider-Man doesn't mean they are going to follow the fucking Clone Saga storyline, or a "Norman Osborn raped Gwen Stacy" shitty retcon


This is a little true. 
Just on this forum alone, I saw some of the biggest Becky fans stop watching during the RTWM because of how much they hated what was happening.


----------



## yeahbaby!

*Re: Straight Up Steve Austin Ratings Jump With Becky Lynch Episode*

Becky kicking more goals and leading the way. All hail The Man!

:becky


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> I wonder if Becky being in the main event match on RAW, then seamlessly going into the Austin's show had anything to do with it.


Her being in the main event didn’t matter in my opinion. Becky’s fans are the hardest of the hardcore and they are still tuned in to Raw at 11p no matter who is in the ME. It’s only natural that a lot of those fans would stay tuned to watch Becky or probably most any other wrestler be on Austin’s show.



Mordecay said:


> I am sorry, but if the show where you are the focus consistently drops in the ratings (to record lows, 30% drop from the previous year when the usual was 10-12% drop year to year I may add) and as soon as you stop being featured as much the ratings go up it means something. Also, since Heyman took over Meltzer has been reporting the most and least watched segments, and Becky usually is not in the most watched segment, in fact she was in one of the 2 least watched segments on RAW this week.


Becky has narrow appeal but because the fans she appeals to buy merch & go to shows she does have value to WWE. But you’re right, WWE has to be careful with her because she has a tune out factor with more casual fans. WWE found that out the hard way right after RR and the ratings trend are showing that still to be the case.


----------



## Mordecay

ClintDagger said:


> Becky has narrow appeal but because the fans she appeals to buy merch & go to shows she does have value to WWE. But you’re right, WWE has to be careful with her because she has a tune out factor with more casual fans. WWE found that out the hard way right after RR and the ratings trend are showing that still to be the case.


Never said she didn't have any value, she has, probably more than all of the women, just that it doesn't translate to ratings/attendance. However, people buy her merch and usually sells out her M&G's, so she has value.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Football back tonight correct? Are we expecting a massacre or have those fans already left?


----------



## tducey

Becky does have value. Mainstream appeal. She's on magazine covers for non wrestling publications.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

ClintDagger said:


> Becky has *narrow appeal* but because the fans she appeals to buy merch & go to shows she does have value to WWE. But you’re right, WWE has to be careful with her because she has a tune out factor with more casual fans. WWE found that out the hard way right after RR and the ratings trend are showing that still to be the case.


This is the most accurate and fairest take on Becky.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Becky Lynch or any other woman for that matter is never going to amount to even a quarter of what a CM Punk or Daniel Bryan main event rise did and would. It just never is going to happen. Nobody cares for a bunch of women talking or wrestling. Rock, Austin, Bret, Taker, Sting, Shawn, Punk, Bryan, Styles, Joe, Angle, Lesnar. That's what people care about. 

A fucking orange-haired woman with an annoying Irish accent going about like she's Stone Cold is never going to sell out arenas and draw viewers week after week like a CM Punk 2011 rise would :lol.


----------



## Punk_316

Deathiscoming said:


> Becky Lynch or any other woman for that matter is never going to amount to even a quarter of what a CM Punk or Daniel Bryan main event rise did and would. It just never is going to happen. Nobody cares for a bunch of women talking or wrestling. Rock, Austin, Bret, Taker, Sting, Shawn, Punk, Bryan, Styles, Joe, Angle, Lesnar. That's what people care about.
> 
> A fucking orange-haired woman with an annoying Irish accent going about like she's Stone Cold is never going to sell out arenas and draw viewers week after week like a CM Punk 2011 rise would :lol.


WWE had lightning in a bottle with Punk 2011. The night he cut that promo was his 'Austin 3:16 moment'. 

It has been over eight years, and not a single angle or talent has come close to that level since (except for maybe Bryan).


----------



## Deathiscoming

Punk_316 said:


> WWE had lightening in a bottle with Punk 2011. The night he cut that promo was his 'Austin 3:16 moment'.
> 
> It has been over eight years, and not a single angle or talent has come close to that level since (except for maybe Bryan).


Yeah and no matter what they did to screw his run up (The del rio cash-in, HHH inserting himself, Kevin Nash crap) I was invested until the Rock thing happened. 

Now I look at Seth Rollins and I just don't care.


----------



## llj

tducey said:


> Becky does have value. Mainstream appeal. She's on magazine covers for non wrestling publications.


Well so is Mandy


----------



## Punk_316

Deathiscoming said:


> Yeah and no matter what they did to screw his run up (The del rio cash-in, HHH inserting himself, Kevin Nash crap) I was invested until the Rock thing happened.
> 
> Now I look at Seth Rollins and I just don't care.


Even after that whole debacle, Punk remained a major fan favorite and continued to have great feuds and top notch matches. I'm just glad he got out of there with his health and sanity in tact.

The Rollins championship honeymoon was firmly come to a close (thank God). Crowd seemed to be turning on him tonight. Since the 2019 Rumble- he's received the most ludicrous, undeserved push I've ever seen.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mordecay said:


> Never said she didn't have any value, she has, probably more than all of the women, just that it doesn't translate to ratings/attendance. However, people buy her merch and usually sells out her M&G's, so she has value.


I wasn’t insinuating that you didn’t think she had value. I just added that statement in there because if you state the facts regarding certain wrestlers today you get labeled a hater. I wanted to be clear that I understand Becky’s value and where she’s popular.



tducey said:


> Becky does have value. Mainstream appeal. She's on magazine covers for non wrestling publications.


Value to WWE? Yes. Mainstream appeal? Absolutely not. She doesn’t even appeal to casual wrestling fans. To say she has appeal to non-wrestling fans is laughable. That’s not a knock on her, it’s true with WWE as a whole. The person on ESPN The Magazine’s cover the week before Lynch & Brie was Rob Mendez. Who? Yeah, nobody here will know who that is without googling it. Being on that cover is not an indication that you are mainstream in any capacity.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.362M
H2- 2.183M
H3- 1.845M
3H- 2.130M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 7.58% / - 0.179M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 15.48% / - 0.338M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 21.89% / - 0.517M )
9/9/19 Vs 9/2/19 ( - 15.04% / - 0.377M )

Demo (9/9/19 Vs 9/2/19):
H1- 0.750D Vs 0.860D
H2- 0.700D Vs 0.840D
H3- 0.630D Vs 0.790D
3H- 0.693D Vs 0.830D

Note: RAW is 5th, 7th & 8th by hourly demo & 10th, 12th & 14th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (9/9/19 Vs 9/10/18):
H1- 2.362M Vs 2.818M
H2- 2.183M Vs 2.801M
H3- 1.845M Vs 2.601M
3H- 2.130M Vs 2.740M ( - 22.26% / - 0.610M )

Demo (9/9/19 Vs 9/10/18):
H1- 0.750D Vs 0.880D
H2- 0.700D Vs 0.910D
H3- 0.630D Vs 0.890D
3H- 0.693D Vs 0.893D

Note: RAW this week last year was 7th, 5th & 6th by hourly demo & 5th, 6th & 10th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## Jonhern

Big drop in the demo, .69 average over 3 hours, down from .83 last week, -17%.


----------



## llj

The Stone Cold bump isn't working like it used to, they've fired that flare gun one too many times now.

I wonder what the rating would be without him though. We'll find out soon I guess.


----------



## rexmundi

Another 3rd hour debacle compliments of Mr. Hour 3. :Cocky :heston


----------



## ClintDagger

Yikes. Didn’t think they’d drop that much. That is frightening.



llj said:


> The Stone Cold bump isn't working like it used to, they've fired that flare gun one too many times now.
> 
> I wonder what the rating would be without him though. We'll find out soon I guess.



My guess is H1 would have been slightly lower, around 2.2MM and the rest about the same. Austin helps some but at the end of the day he was on Raw not that long ago so the novelty hasn’t really built back up.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3rd hour Rollins lol


----------



## rexmundi

ClintDagger said:


> Yikes. Didn’t think they’d drop that much. That is frightening.


One thing is that the Saints game went down to the wire and was a good game to watch. The other thing is that there were two MNF games on back to back, so raw didn't get the normal unopposed part of the first hour that they normally have. Still hour 2 was very poor and hour 3 was bleak. Perhaps having Austin showcasing how meager today's stars are didn't help matters because it was a case of a Titan surrounded by dwarves.


----------



## DammitChrist

rexmundi said:


> Another 3rd hour debacle compliments of Mr. Hour 3. :Cocky :heston





RainmakerV2 said:


> 3rd hour Rollins lol


It's pretty typical seeing you (falsely) blame the low ratings on Seth Rollins when the overall quality of the show was nothing special (outside of the opening segment and a few matches)


----------



## rexmundi

DammitC said:


> It's pretty typical seeing you (falsely) blame the low ratings on Seth Rollins when the overall quality of the show was nothing special (outside of the opening segment and a few matches)


I do believe that seth has been the main event of 4 of the lowest ever raw hour 3 ratings and you can't spin that. :Cocky


----------



## Mordecay

Yikes


----------



## llj

Call me sadistic, but I really want those sub 2s.


----------



## rbl85

That's rough


----------



## DammitChrist

rexmundi said:


> I do believe that seth has been the main event of 4 of the lowest ever raw hour 3 ratings and you can't spin that. :Cocky


Nah, that pretty much just tells me that the quality of those episodes were mediocre in spite of those solid main-events; most likely because of the shitty wildcard rule (and that awful short-lived rule where the talents couldn't wrestle during the commercial breaks) disrupting the flow of the shows.

You're pretty much just itching to falsely blame the guy no matter what though.


----------



## Mordecay

Seeing people defend Rollins feels like a little deja vu when another "popular" wrestler was tanking the ratings as well... :becky

No wonder they are a couple, they have that in common :lol


----------



## Chris90

Offt, they got nuked from orbit this week.


----------



## Not Lying

I really can't wait till The Fiend is champion and the show quality remains the same and watch the rating geeks turn on him. I'll be quoting this.

Braun is a big monster guy who's been having car crash TV for years, one of the most protected wrestlers on the roster, above 99% of wrestlers except Lesnar and Roman and Rollins. He's #1 contender for the title. Why is there so little interest in him? Why is he getting a pass? 

Maybe it's also not really his fault and they booked the feud like shit?


----------



## Zappers

Said it a thousand times. This is not the 90's .. WWE vs WCW. That's done , over with. It's a different world now. Never going to get those ratings again, no matter what they do. People don't watch TV like they used to... PERIOD. Really don't see the pleasure people get from laughing at the WWE, ridiculing and loving their drop in ratings ... thinking they have all the answers. They could bring in Kenny Omega to wrestle CM Punk and it would barely crack a 3.5. It's just not happening sorry to say. Enjoy the product for what it is and stop worrying about the ratings, I know I'am. RAW was fantastic, thank you WWE.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> I really can't wait till The Fiend is champion and the show quality remains the same and watch the rating geeks turn on him. I'll be quoting this.


I've been saying the same shit since last year (which is pretty much before any of the current world champions even won their respective titles) about Vince being to blame for the lackluster/mediocre shows. 

Some folks are still stuck in 2012 where one person is somehow responsible for the state of the entire 3 hours for Raw, which is such an archaic mindset.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> Said it a thousand times. This is not the 90's .. WWE vs WCW. That's done , over with. It's a different world now. Never going to get those ratings again, no matter what they do. People don't watch TV like they used to... PERIOD. Really don't see the pleasure people get from laughing at the WWE, ridiculing and loving their drop in ratings ... thinking they have all the answers. They could bring in Kenny Omega to wrestle CM Punk and it would barely crack a 3.5. It's just not happening sorry to say. Enjoy the product for what it is and stop worrying about the ratings, I know I'am. RAW was fantastic, thank you WWE.


I personally find the ratings analysis to be more fun than the analysis of the current product, and therefore I find the discussion of the former more interesting than the latter. If you don’t feel the same way, that’s your prerogative.

And to the initial part of your post, I don’t think people have an expectation of seeing late 90s levels of viewership. I think it’s much more that some people see the writing on the wall of wrestling being a force on cable in one way or another, as it’s been known for about 40 years, is dwindling away to the point that 5 years or so from now it could be riding off into the sunset. That’s an interesting thing to be witnessing for some of us.


----------



## Erramayhem89

WWE has never had such little star power. I mean no star power. There's no way any sane human can watch 3 hours of this shit lol. They need a real star and we haven't seen that in years since Cena was full time.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> I really can't wait till The Fiend is champion and the show quality remains the same and watch the rating geeks turn on him. I'll be quoting this.
> 
> Braun is a big monster guy who's been having car crash TV for years, one of the most protected wrestlers on the roster, above 99% of wrestlers except Lesnar and Roman and Rollins. He's #1 contender for the title. Why is there so little interest in him? Why is he getting a pass?
> 
> Maybe it's also not really his fault and they booked the feud like shit?


Is anyone saying Wyatt will turn around the ratings? I don’t see anyone on their roster that can do it including Bray. The problem isn’t that they aren’t picking the right talent. It’s that they have zero talent whatsoever.



DammitC said:


> I've been saying the same shit since last year (which is pretty much before any of the current world champions even won their respective titles) about Vince being to blame for the lackluster/mediocre shows.
> 
> Some folks are still stuck in 2012 where one person is somehow responsible for the state of the entire 3 hours for Raw, which is such an archaic mindset.


Vince and his cohorts are a problem but they’ve been a problem for 30+ years. The difference is lack of star power to overcome Vince’s lack of vision. It just shows how great the Hogan’s and Austin’s of the world really were.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> Is anyone saying Wyatt will turn around the ratings? I don’t see anyone on their roster that can do it including Bray. The problem isn’t that they aren’t picking the right talent. It’s that they have zero talent whatsoever.


then stop watching. Ratings haven't been the be all end all of draw/talent in years. Zero? Seriously?


----------



## Ace

Who wants to be the face of this steaming pile of shit again? :becky 

Worst era of all time, not the modern era that's just a buzz word they want you to say so they can put it on a t-shirt unk


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> then stop watching.


LOL. Don’t take it personal man. This isn’t something to get irate over. I can be a fan and watch winning teams loaded with talent and I can be a fan and watch losing teams with absolutely no talent whatsoever. There’s interesting reasons for me to watch in both instances.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> LOL. Don’t take it personal man. This isn’t something to get irate over. I can be a fan and watch winning teams loaded with talent and I can be a fan and watch losing teams with absolutely no talent whatsoever. There’s interesting reasons for me to watch in both instances.


dude. How can you be watching a show you find boring where u said the only way it was tolerable (in the past) was because of big stars? and now u say they have no stars, and not even potential for stars? like .. seriously? 
You're watching something you think is bad with zero potential of improving in the long foreseeable future.

Being a fan of a team is different because it's not a TV Show.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Call me sadistic, but I really want those sub 2s.


They'll be there next week lmao.

Austin cannot save this sinking ship :lmao

What a fucking disaster.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> dude. How can you be watching a show you find boring where u said the only way it was tolerable (in the past) was because of big stars? and now u say they have no stars, and not even potential for stars? like .. seriously?
> You're watching something you think is bad with zero potential of improving in the long foreseeable future.


I enjoy being a critic, positive & negative. I enjoy posting on this site a few times a week. To do that, I have to stay up to date on the product. So I do get indirect enjoyment out of watching it. Although the amount I watch WWE now is way, way down because the product is so lacking. I do DVR it and only go back and watch what seems to be interesting to discuss. I don’t like to comment on something unless I’ve seen it first hand. I try to avoid being a hypocrite in that way.

I’m a firm believer that all that really matters in wrestling is the top of the card. WWE is chock full of midcard talent and below. And I actually do think WWE has no potential to turn it around for the long foreseeable future and maybe never. I hope I’m wrong in that. But sadly don’t think I am.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> I enjoy being a critic, positive & negative. I enjoy posting on this site a few times a week. To do that, I have to stay up to date on the product. So I do get indirect enjoyment out of watching it. Although the amount I watch WWE now is way, way down because the product is so lacking. I do DVR it and only go back and watch what seems to be interesting to discuss. I don’t like to comment on something unless I’ve seen it first hand. I try to avoid being a hypocrite in that way.
> 
> I’m a firm believer that all that really matters in wrestling is the top of the card. WWE is chock full of midcard talent and below. And I actually do think WWE has no potential to turn it around for the long foreseeable future and maybe never. I hope I’m wrong in that. But sadly don’t think I am.


 I'm the same, I only care about the top of the card unless my favorites are in the mid to uppercard. Otherwise the mid to lower card doesn't exist to me.

Its the men's heavyweight division and that's all, the rest is inconsequential.

I find it hard to invest in mid card guys because they're generally meh or you know they won't succeed. Tag titles are just filler TV and the womens division has always been about giving some variety and eye candy to look at in-between the filler and stuff that matters (main event). If they were serious about that divison they would improve their recruiting so they won't need to oversell mediocre wrestlers and athletes.


----------



## The XL 2

Lmao at those ratings with Austin on the show. This is what happens when you have a low midcard tier talent like Rollins on top. Their is a reason why Brian Christopher wasnt the face of the company in 1999 or Paul London wasn't in 2004


----------



## Chrome

Damn. :lol


----------



## Frost99




----------



## Chan Hung

Madison Square Garden, Austin couldnt save this shit. And a main event of 4 people who have no chemistry in a 4 way tag team explain why they had shit ratings close to a high 1 million 
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/jxUF01M.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Maury" class="inlineimg" />


----------



## chronoxiong

Lol. Still can't believe NBC Universal paid so much money for this sinking ship. Hitting below 2 million viewers. With NFL season back in full force. Good luck Vince.


----------



## Ace

Even Steve Austin couldn't save Raw from Monday Night Football last night.

Raw averaged 2.13 million viewers, its second lowest modern era mark in history for a non-holiday show. The 15.4 percent drop from last week was much larger than usual for the first show against football.

The number speaks to the audience watching Raw being less loyal as compared to other years when football started.

The only episodes of Raw in modern history that did worse was a June 10 show against the NBA finals, and this past Christmas and New Year's Eve shows, which really shouldn't even count in comparison.

The most notable thing is that the Austin segment should have been held for later in the episode, as Raw opened well in the first quarter, fell once Austin left, and continued to decline the rest of the show, with the main event being one of the lowest rated matches in Raw history.

None of the stats are good. The third hour was the lowest third hour except for Christmas and New Year's. The first-to-third hour drop, largely due to Austin, was the sixth worst in history at 21.9 percent. The audience was down 22.3 percent from last year's first show against Monday Night Football.

Raw was 10th for the night on cable, trailing news shows, football related programming, and the 3.36 million viewers for A Very Brady Renovation on Home & Garden.

The Houston Texans vs. New Orleans Saints game against most of Raw did 13.08 million viewers. The late game, with the Denver Broncos vs. Oakland Raiders, did 10.62 million viewers.

As far as viewers leaving during the show, from the hour one average to hour three, the decline was 14 percent with women 18-49, 17 percent for men 18-49, 19 percent for teenage girls, six percent for teenage boys, and 24 percent over 50.

The three hours were:

8 p.m. 2.36 million viewers
9 p.m. 2.18 million viewers
10 p.m. 1.85 million viewers


https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/...-percent-against-monday-night-football-292181

Additional posts by Dave about the quarterly ratings



> Firefly Funhouse did badly the last two weeks in ratings.





> She [Alexa] had the second lowest segment last week. Austin's segment did great, like really great.


Tl;dr

We're at another collapse. WWE better hope Austin isn't a draw anymore otherwise those ratings are only going to get worse.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> I enjoy being a critic, positive & negative. I enjoy posting on this site a few times a week. To do that, I have to stay up to date on the product. So I do get indirect enjoyment out of watching it. Although the amount I watch WWE now is way, way down because the product is so lacking. I do DVR it and only go back and watch what seems to be interesting to discuss. I don’t like to comment on something unless I’ve seen it first hand. I try to avoid being a hypocrite in that way.
> 
> I’m a firm believer that all that really matters in wrestling is the top of the card. WWE is chock full of midcard talent and below. And I actually do think WWE has no potential to turn it around for the long foreseeable future and maybe never. I hope I’m wrong in that. But sadly don’t think I am.


I don't get this at all. like at all. in 2017 I was very close to stop watching WWE until Charlotte/AJ became champs on SD in short span before SurvivorSeries, but 2017 SD was WOAT TV for example. I'll watch a show as long as I know the characters in it and have invested a little bit in them. If they start to give airtime to characters I don't care about I'll go insane. For example: I probably skipped 95% of any episode of GOT that were centered around Bran or Sam. I don't give a fuck how important they are/were to the story, I just couldn't stomach them on TV. If you have a full roster like that and you're still watching.. for years..




Ace said:


> *I'm the same*, I only care about the top of the card unless my favorites are in the mid to uppercard. Otherwise the mid to lower card doesn't exist to me.
> 
> Its the men's heavyweight division and that's all, the rest is inconsequential.
> 
> I find it hard to invest in mid card guys because they're generally meh or you know they won't succeed. Tag titles are just filler TV and the womens division has always been about giving some variety and eye candy to look at in-between the filler and stuff that matters (main event). If they were serious about that divison they would improve their recruiting so they won't need to oversell mediocre wrestlers and athletes.


No you're not you flip flopping weirdo. :lmao Clint has always been consistenat at least and you're just using that as an excuse now to work whatever agenda you have you fake.


----------



## Ace

.


----------



## OldPsychology

They will do under 2 million viewers.

1.3-1.5 million will probably be the average based on last year's rating's trend.

WrestlingInc has a tracker for ratings


----------



## raymond1985

NHL playoffs were up this year and NFL's opener was up 25% on last year.

The problem is that WWE has no stars. They have tried everything with Rollins, but he's simply not good enough. I actually thought that Lynch had potential, but she has also fell short. Who else is there? 

I'm not sure what the WWE can do at this time. They need another Rock or Cena, or another Batista vs HHH type feud. Sadly, I don't think they have the talent or creative to pull it off. Expect record lows for the rest of the year.


----------



## xio8ups

The ratings slayer SETH ROLLLINS


----------



## tomjh

Ace said:


> Raw was 10th for the night on cable, trailing news shows, football related programming, and the 3.36 million viewers for A Very Brady Renovation on Home & Garden.
> 
> *The Houston Texans vs. New Orleans Saints game against most of Raw did 13.08 million viewers*. The late game, with the Denver Broncos vs. Oakland Raiders, did 10.62 million viewers.


Can someone enlighten me... what are the other 300m+ people in the US doing? Only 4% of the population is watching the football game.. I thought it was the national sport? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is on basic cable right, so everyone with a cable package will have it?

While with RAW, when less than 1% of the country tunes into your show... why even bother?


----------



## OldPsychology

raymond1985 said:


> NHL playoffs were up this year and NFL's opener was up 25% on last year.
> 
> The problem is that WWE has no stars. They have tried everything with Rollins, but he's simply not good enough. I actually thought that Lynch had potential, but she has also fell short. Who else is there?
> 
> I'm not sure what the WWE can do at this time. They need another Rock or Cena, or another Batista vs HHH type feud. Sadly, I don't think they have the talent or creative to pull it off. Expect record lows for the rest of the year.


Since Paul Heyman has started writing, there has been a 4 week stretch of ratings loss.

Say what you want about Vince Russo in WCW but even in his 2nd run he never had even a 3 week stretch of ratings loss.

For years fanatics/niche commentators touted Heyman as a revolutionary who if only had the chance would succeed. people point to Heyman for when Smackdown was having slightly higher ratings at times than RAW in 2002, but to fail to mention that, Smackdown was on free TV, so a 3.4 for SD compared to Raw getting a 3.2 on cable isn't a win.

Especially when Smackdown always had more viewers than Raw from in inception(while Raw had higher ratings than Smackdown during the attitude era, Smackdown had more viewers. a 4.0 on national TV isn't a 4.0 on cable, there's far more households on national TV)

Heyman appeals to the niche fanatics who overrate his work and have managed to somehow convince others that the attitude era was anything remotely similar to ECW.


----------



## raymond1985

xio8ups said:


> The ratings slayer SETH ROLLLINS


Rollins should take some of the blame for that third hour number. 

He is the performer that has been pushed as the FOC in recent months. He's the performer that WWE have presented as the star of the show. Yet, fans are just not that interested in him. 

It's no surprise that the advertising for the house shows that were cancelled a few weeks back heavily featured Rollins.


----------



## OldPsychology

raymond1985 said:


> Rollins should take some of the blame for that third hour number.
> 
> He is the performer that has been pushed as the FOC in recent months. He's the performer that WWE have presented as the star of the show. Yet, fans are just not that interested in him.
> 
> It's no surprise that the advertising for the house shows that were cancelled a few weeks back heavily featured Rollins.


Here's another thing, whenever someone says Rollins should be pushed because he gets the loudest pops every week.

WWE's average attendance for Raw is 5,000-10,000 

52 shows a years, 52 x that = 260,000-520,000 fans a year.

Let give him the benefit of the doubt and say he gets cheered every week by everyone in attendance,

So in total if at most he gets 500,000 average fans cheering him every year.

That's not over, especially when you have 800,000 + tuned out at home.


----------



## raymond1985

OldPsychology said:


> Here's another thing, whenever someone says Rollins should be pushed because he gets the loudest pops every week.
> 
> WWE's average attendance for Raw is 5,000-10,000
> 
> 52 shows a years, 52 x that = 260,000-520,000 fans a year.
> 
> Let give him the benefit of the doubt and say he gets cheered every week by everyone in attendance,
> 
> So in total if at most he gets 500,000 average fans cheering him every year.
> 
> That's not over, especially when you have 800,000 + tuned out at home.


Agreed.

If a performer is over with the most vocal section of the live audience, it does not mean that they are over with the wider audience.


----------



## xio8ups

okay i will bite. He gets cheered by the marks


----------



## raymond1985

You can take the man out of the bingo hall, but you can't take the bingo hall out of the man


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> I personally find the ratings analysis to be more fun than the analysis of the current product, and therefore I find the discussion of the former more interesting than the latter. If you don’t feel the same way, that’s your prerogative.
> 
> And to the initial part of your post, I don’t think people have an expectation of seeing late 90s levels of viewership. I think it’s much more that some people see the writing on the wall of wrestling being a force on cable in one way or another, as it’s been known for about 40 years, is dwindling away to the point that 5 years or so from now it could be riding off into the sunset. That’s an interesting thing to be witnessing for some of us.


I see your point. But on the part about _"I don’t think people have an expectation of seeing late 90s levels of viewership."_

I actually think people do. That's why the obsession with the rating comes into play. If they were getting a 4.0 right now, people would be trashing them saying because of so and so storyline or so and so wrestler is killing the show.... People are never satisfied. In turn we should be happy that WWE is still on the air, and no end that I can see is in the near future. 

Wanna use a example that may sorta fit. Look at soaps, some have been on for 50 plus years... the viewership is not even close to what it once was. Yet they still chug along. Their tiny fanbase is ecstatic they are still on the air. I'm happy WWE is still running.



OldPsychology said:


> WWE's average attendance for Raw is 5,000-10,000


What? You mean for house shows.

Now way in hell RAW is averaging 5000 a show.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

That is absolutely terrible. 

I said it a couple of weeks ago but they have officially overused Austin's starpower for a ratings bump. Only this time, it didn't work. He's been on RAW Reunion, cameo appearances on RAW, his own USA Network show, likely to be on SD's first FOX show. It's too much Austin, where it wasn't the case a couple of years ago. That and the drawing power of Austin compared to today's roster is so different and wide that it's almost scary. Seriously, listen to the pop Austin got compared to everyone else on Monday.

You can say its football and both games were quite good, to be honest, but this has been a trend going decreasingly down for years now and you are seeing the results. It's going to be a scary fall and winter for WWE and if Austin couldn't even stop the train from going off the rails, it's going to be a harsh reality for WWE in the next few months.

Boy, that Heyman sure is saving RAW and everything is completely Vince's fault, am I right? :dino


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Deserved that bad rating as the show was awful. I enjoyed the Austin/AJ bit it was fun but let's be honest they both overshadowed the Universal Champion and the #1 Contender BADLY.

Rollins needs a faction very much like HHH. Not great as a stand alone act. Braun has been damaged multiple times.


----------



## raymond1985

Austin's opening segment did very well according to Meltzer. It speaks volumes of how poor the current roster is that the viewership then fell off a cliff as the 3 hours went on. 

Next week could be very ugly. They won't even have Austin around for a slight lift in hour 1.


----------



## rbl85

raymond1985 said:


> Austin's opening segment did very well according to Meltzer. It speaks volumes of how poor the current roster is that the viewership then fell off a cliff as the 3 hours went on.
> 
> Next week could be very ugly. *They won't even have Austin* around for a slight lift in hour 1.


You never know XD


----------



## raymond1985

rbl85 said:


> You never know XD


Even so, they can't book him in every segment. 

At this stage, I just can't see how WWE can turn its declining viewership around. Heyman and Rollins aren't the solution and I am not sure who is to be honest.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

I don’t know why you guys are obsessed about ratings. Raw and smackdown are going no where. Raw is the top rated show on USA network and as long as it stays like that they will be fine. Wwe is carrying USA network. Also you guys need to realize cable television is dead. Seriously how many of you guys actually use cable tv. Why pay $130 for cable tv when you can purchase hulu and sling tv for $30/month and get the same channels. Let’s face it apart from the nfl and nba nothing else draws on tv. Some of the best shows on tv draws only 500k viewers. Guys honestly in this day and age 2m viewers is awesome for a nitch product like wrestling.
Can we get over the ratings wwe did in the 90’s. That was a pop culture phenomenon that cannot be repeated again. John cena got lucky that the product was still hot when he was made face of the company. By the end of cena’s 10 year reign, the ratings had tanked completely. There are very few guys in history that have drawn in the Casual audience in America. The last 30 years I will say hogan, austin, rock, nwo and bill goldberg. Undertaker, Bret, hbk, etc did not bring in any casual audience so why are people expecting rollins to bring them in. For crying out loud hbk was at one point the lowest drawing champion in history despite how great he was. This was also a show that heavily featured the undertaker. 
As fans we look at things through nostalgia and rose tinted glasses.
Face it guys until Austin showed up wwe was in the toilet ratings wise. After the departure of rock and Austin, the ratings have continued to slide. People don’t realize that the casual audience in the 90’s were only rock and Austin fans, while some liked DX. I watched hhh first promo when he became wwf champion and you could here a pin drop, utter silence. I think we should stop measuring this generation of talents to the greatest era in history.


----------



## xio8ups

heyman was brought in for one reason. To please the marks.


----------



## llj

raymond1985 said:


> Austin's opening segment did very well according to Meltzer. It speaks volumes of how poor the current roster is that the viewership then fell off a cliff as the 3 hours went on.
> 
> Next week could be very ugly. They won't even have Austin around for a slight lift in hour 1.


It's not even the worst hour 1 to hour 3 falloff this year. So yeah, I'm sure the Austin segment did the best of all the segments, but it was still a pretty low rated 1st hour. Last year's first hour still had 400k or so more viewers, and that was without Austin. 

And it was declining this time last year too. But since November 2018, ratings have fallen off a cliff moreso than the usual rate.


----------



## OldPsychology

raymond1985 said:


> Even so, they can't book him in every segment.
> 
> At this stage, I just can't see how WWE can turn its declining viewership around. Heyman and Rollins aren't the solution and I am not sure who is to be honest.


https://youtu.be/UBIRo-zfzrQ?t=97


----------



## The XL 2

The second WWE started to book wrestling for the smart marks, started to push indy darlings to the top of the card when they should be curtain jerking or not even being on the roster, and the second they abandoned pro wrestling for the indy high spot high spot finisher false finish no sell garbage style, they were doomed. They don't even try to hire guys who have upside as pro wrestlers(Good look, can talk, charisma, presence, character, etc) they just hire guys who get over with 28 people in a high school gym who have no redeeming qualities as a pro wrestler.


----------



## Natecore

I’m always surprised they have even 1 person that watches this shit so it’s always an amazing number to me



The XL 2 said:


> The second WWE started to book wrestling for the smart marks, started to push indy darlings to the top of the card when they should be curtain jerking or not even being on the roster, and the second they abandoned pro wrestling for the indy high spot high spot finisher false finish no sell garbage style, they were doomed. They don't even try to hire guys who have upside as pro wrestlers(Good look, can talk, charisma, presence, character, etc) they just hire guys who get over with 28 people in a high school gym who have no redeeming qualities as a pro wrestler.


:lmao


----------



## SPCDRI

The top people in WWE right now are for the most part WWE's hand picked, long term roster investments, many of which came up through the developmental territories and performance center from WWE and have little experience in wrestling in other promotions, if any at all. Or else they were on the indy scene for a few years nearly 10 years ago, then spent the rest of the time with WWE, somebody like an Erick Rowan.
I mean, you could call Rollins an "indy darling" but he was with ROH for 4 years and has been with WWE for 9 years at this point. Roman Reigns is pure, uncut WWE talent. Ambrose/Moxley was an indy darling who got short-end-of-the-stick booking as a Shield member, at least from his perspective, and isn't even in the company anymore. Kofi Kingston wrestled and trained for a few months 14 years ago before WWE signed him. Remember all those great independent matches Kofi had in "Chaotic Wrestling?" Yeah, me neither. Brock Lesnar didn't work independent wrestling show's prior to WWE. He's his own beast, with the MMA matches and stuff in Japan, but he is by no means an indy darling, either.
As for the rest of the majorly pushed wrestlers lately and major angles going on, much of it now involves pure WWE performers who never worked a second in another company. 
Alexa Bliss, Braun Strowman, Bray Wyatt, Baron Corbin, Charlotte Flair, Dolph Ziggler. None of those people are indy darlings at all. 
As a matter of fact, anybody who has watched WWE lately knows that having an extensive and successful independent wrestling pedigree can be of great DETRIMENT to a wrestler's booking. Ask EC3 and Robert Roode if they think its done 'em any favors. AJ Styles escaped the stigma, Samoa "Job" certainly didn't. WWE isn't using the stars they are buying that well, and they aren't successfully making their own Homegrown wrestlers, at least not to any major extent.
There is this notion that WWE knows how to do wrestling the right way, and there is this Indy Darling Infestation that needs to be purged or something, at least that's the impression I get. But there's really nothing going on that involves "indy darlings" at Clash of Champions, apart from, surprisingly enough, Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks, and maybe the Nakamura match. Maybe whatever they have Owens do and whatever they have Daniel Bryan do. That's pretty much it.


----------



## llj

Even Sasha was barely in the indies before going to the WWE.


----------



## ClintDagger

raymond1985 said:


> Austin's opening segment did very well according to Meltzer. It speaks volumes of how poor the current roster is that the viewership then fell off a cliff as the 3 hours went on.
> 
> Next week could be very ugly. They won't even have Austin around for a slight lift in hour 1.


That’s a key point IMO. They dropped 22% from last year’s NFL week 1. Without Austin that might have been 30% or more. This has to be a real concern for them at this point.



Zappers said:


> I see your point. But on the part about _"I don’t think people have an expectation of seeing late 90s levels of viewership."_
> 
> Wanna use a example that may sorta fit. Look at soaps, some have been on for 50 plus years... the viewership is not even close to what it once was. Yet they still chug along. Their tiny fanbase is ecstatic they are still on the air. I'm happy WWE is still running.


I don’t know much about soaps, but haven’t many of them gone away in recent years?



The Definition of Technician said:


> I don't get this at all. like at all. in 2017 I was very close to stop watching WWE until Charlotte/AJ became champs on SD in short span before SurvivorSeries, but 2017 SD was WOAT TV for example. I'll watch a show as long as I know the characters in it and have invested a little bit in them. If they start to give airtime to characters I don't care about I'll go insane. For example: I probably skipped 95% of any episode of GOT that were centered around Bran or Sam. I don't give a fuck how important they are/were to the story, I just couldn't stomach them on TV. If you have a full roster like that and you're still watching.. for years..


Well, what can I say my friend? You may be right and it doesn't make sense. I guess I have some issues, LOL. But I do enjoy breaking it down even though I think very little of the product and I promise I don’t do it to get a rise out of people. I try to be as fair and honest as I can be. I just find the ratings stuff very interesting.


----------



## Jonhern

SPCDRI said:


> The top people in WWE right now are for the most part WWE's hand picked, long term roster investments, many of which came up through the developmental territories and performance center from WWE and have little experience in wrestling in other promotions, if any at all. Or else they were on the indy scene for a few years nearly 10 years ago, then spent the rest of the time with WWE, somebody like an Erick Rowan.
> I mean, you could call Rollins an "indy darling" but he was with ROH for 4 years and has been with WWE for 9 years at this point. Roman Reigns is pure, uncut WWE talent. Ambrose/Moxley was an indy darling who got short-end-of-the-stick booking as a Shield member, at least from his perspective, and isn't even in the company anymore. Kofi Kingston wrestled and trained for a few months 14 years ago before WWE signed him. Remember all those great independent matches Kofi had in "Chaotic Wrestling?" Yeah, me neither. Brock Lesnar didn't work independent wrestling show's prior to WWE. He's his own beast, with the MMA matches and stuff in Japan, but he is by no means an indy darling, either.
> As for the rest of the majorly pushed wrestlers lately and major angles going on, much of it now involves pure WWE performers who never worked a second in another company.
> Alexa Bliss, Braun Strowman, Bray Wyatt, Baron Corbin, Charlotte Flair, Dolph Ziggler. None of those people are indy darlings at all.
> As a matter of fact, anybody who has watched WWE lately knows that having an extensive and successful independent wrestling pedigree can be of great DETRIMENT to a wrestler's booking. Ask EC3 and Robert Roode if they think its done 'em any favors. AJ Styles escaped the stigma, Samoa "Job" certainly didn't. WWE isn't using the stars they are buying that well, and they aren't successfully making their own Homegrown wrestlers, at least not to any major extent.
> There is this notion that WWE knows how to do wrestling the right way, and there is this Indy Darling Infestation that needs to be purged or something, at least that's the impression I get. But there's really nothing going on that involves "indy darlings" at Clash of Champions, apart from, surprisingly enough, Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks, and maybe the Nakamura match. Maybe whatever they have Owens do and whatever they have Daniel Bryan do. That's pretty much it.


Just have to correct you on a couple, but to strengthen your point actually. AJ styles and nak are not Indy darlings either. AJ spent most of his career in tna which is not an Indy, they are owned by a big company, as well as a stint in NJPW, which is also not an Indy. People group them in with Indies and they are nothing of the sort. If they are Indies then so is wwe. Same goes for modern day ROH, which is owned by a huge media company.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

raymond1985 said:


> The problem is that WWE has no stars. They have tried everything with Rollins, but he's simply not good enough.* I actually thought that Lynch had potential*, but she has also fell short. Who else is there?


I was curious to see how she would draw once she won the Royal Rumble and came over to RAW. WWE built the show around her after the Royal Rumble and the ratings fell. They tried a bit too hard to recreate a Stone Cold character and it didn't work. They took her bully gimmick and put the machine behind. If anything it drove viewers away. She has a great look and an interesting character, but it's not one that I would put at the forefront of the company.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> I don’t know much about soaps, but haven’t many of them gone away in recent years?


Yes. There's 4 left. One on each major network. (CBS has two) Years ago, each network had like 4. Times changed, over saturation.


----------



## Dave Santos

Nielsen Including Out-of-Home Viewing Next Year, Could Impact Wrestling Ratings

Looks like wwe will be tracking offices, bars and airports as well i 2020. News programming and live sports are expected to get a 7-11% bunp next year.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/niel...ing-next-year-could-impact-wrestling-ratings/


----------



## InexorableJourney

Dave Santos said:


> Nielsen Including Out-of-Home Viewing Next Year, Could Impact Wrestling Ratings
> 
> Looks like wwe will be tracking offices, bars and airports as well i 2020. News programming and live sports are expected to get a 7-11% bunp next year.
> 
> https://411mania.com/wrestling/niel...ing-next-year-could-impact-wrestling-ratings/


Seems a strange thing to evaluate, if you go to a bar with a sports show on but don't watch it, do you count as a viewer?

Do they just say 200 people per bar, 5000 bars, so thats an extra million people.

It sounds like mathematical voodoo.


----------



## tducey

llj said:


> Well so is Mandy


Good point, still think Becky's better than Mandy though.


----------



## Strike Force

Awful numbers. That was the last drop of blood they could squeeze out of Austin, at least for the foreseeable future. I doubt undertaker moved the needle, either. 

I think what we’re seeing here is the inevitable result of WWE convincing themselves that stars aren’t necessary because the brand itself is the draw. If you fully buy into that mentality, it’s easy to start believing that booking decisions and promotion of one star over another doesn’t really matter and that nothing has significant consequences. 

Unlike many of you, I actually do believe WWE has potentially huge stars on their roster right now. Remember, in 1996, Austin, Foley, triple H, and most of the other biggest stars of the attitude era were already on the roster. It wasn’t until they were presented as stars that people started caring and the war turned around.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Strike Force said:


> Awful numbers. That was the last drop of blood they could squeeze out of Austin, at least for the foreseeable future. I doubt undertaker moved the needle, either.
> 
> I think what we’re seeing here is the inevitable result of WWE convincing themselves that stars aren’t necessary because the brand itself is the draw. If you fully buy into that mentality, it’s easy to start believing that booking decisions and promotion of one star over another doesn’t really matter and that nothing has significant consequences.
> 
> Unlike many of you, I actually do believe WWE has potentially huge stars on their roster right now. Remember, in 1996, Austin, Foley, triple H, and most of the other biggest stars of the attitude era were already on the roster. It wasn’t until they were presented as stars that people started caring and the war turned around.


Yeah, they can totally create new stars if they want to. Although, I do think they took some huge losses with losing Moxley and some others over the past few years who really could've made a difference.

Still, people might joke about Buddy Murphy now, but I dunno... maybe? How about we let the talent run and see how far they go. Vince McMahon used to be all about that in the 90's and he lost it sometime after setting up WWE Creative and replacing traditional "booking" and also going public.

Wrestling, as a live TV show, needs to be more free form than that.


----------



## squarebox

The WWE dick riders have mysteriously gone into hiding after this week's disastrous ratings, understandably.


----------



## llj

squarebox said:


> The WWE dick riders have mysteriously gone into hiding after this week's disastrous ratings, understandably.


I'm sure those people at Squared Circle have spun it a certain way

"Still won every hour" or some shit


----------



## CMPunkRock316

llj said:


> I'm sure those people at Squared Circle have spun it a certain way
> 
> "Still won every hour" or some shit


I hate squared circle those bastards down voted the hell out of a joke about ratings last week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.417M
H2- 2.319M
H3- 2.079M
3H- 2.272M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 4.05% / - 0.098M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 10.35% / - 0.240M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 13.98% / - 0.338M )
9/16/19 Vs 9/9/19 ( + 6.67% / + 0.142M )

Demo (9/16/19 Vs 9/9/19):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.750D
H2- 0.750D Vs 0.700D
H3- 0.640D Vs 0.630D
3H- 0.717D Vs 0.693D

Note: RAW is 5th, 6th & 7th by hourly demo & 10th, 11th & 12th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (9/16/19 Vs 9/17/18):
H1- 2.417M Vs 2.839M
H2- 2.319M Vs 2.746M
H3- 2.079M Vs 2.432M
3H- 2.272M Vs 2.672M ( - 14.97% / - 0.400M )

Demo (9/16/19 Vs 9/17/18):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.960D
H2- 0.750D Vs 0.900D
H3- 0.640D Vs 0.850D
3H- 0.717D Vs 0.903D

Note: RAW this week last year was 5th, 6th & 7th by hourly demo & 7th, 9th & 11th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## llj

That big post-PPV bump...oh wait...nope


----------



## Zappers

Beat last weeks RAW overall and in every hour.


----------



## rbl85

Nearly zero post PPV bump…..next week ins going to hurt.


----------



## ClintDagger

Bad NFL game helped them. But that’s bad considering they were coming out of a big angle on PPV.


----------



## Hephaesteus

And this was with the most popular wrestler heavily featured throughout the night


----------



## Ace

Lesnar is on SD and given what they're promoting for SD, there will be no one left on Raw :lmao

Unless Austin is coming out of retirement, Raw is so fucked come October.

They'll be doing 1.5m from late October onwards. This is the next big fall and it's coming faster than anyone expected.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Lesnar is on SD and given what they're promoting for SD, there will be no one left on Raw :lmao
> 
> Unless Austin is coming out of retirement, Raw is so fucked come October.
> 
> They'll be doing 1.5m from late October onwards. This is the next big fall and it's coming faster than anyone expected.


It looks like based on the tea leaves they are going to stack SD. Which makes sense because I think they have a huge fear of what happens if Fox isn’t happy with their returns.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> It looks like based on the tea leaves they are going to stack SD. Which makes sense because I think they have a huge fear of what happens if Fox isn’t happy with their returns.


They probably think they're sweet with USA, Fox on the other hand is known to be ruthless so they're doing everything they can do to avoid being cancelled and facing that embarrassment of failing on a major network.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> They probably think they're sweet with USA, Fox on the other hand is known to be ruthless so they're doing everything they can do to avoid being cancelled and facing that embarrassment of failing on a major network.


Yep. Totally agree with you. USA will live with 1.5 million for Raw. Whereas Fox will walk away quickly at 2.0 million for SD.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> Yep. Totally agree with you. USA will live with 1.5 million for Raw. Whereas Fox will walk away quickly at 2.0 million for SD.


Probably have already given them the talk about how 2m won't fly and how they'll cancel their ass in a heartbeat if they don't deliver.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Probably have already given them the talk about how 2m won't fly and how they'll cancel their ass in a heartbeat if they don't deliver.


I remember the leaked expectation being 3.5 million on the low end. So anything in the 2.0 million range seems like a real danger zone IMO.


----------



## SPCDRI

ClintDagger said:


> I remember the leaked expectation being 3.5 million on the low end. So anything in the 2.0 million range seems like a real danger zone IMO.


I know its two hours of show and its live, but FOX ain't going to put up with paying 200 million a year for 2 million viewers an hour. They have almost certainly had "Come to Jesus" intervention-discussions about how the Smackdown numbers being sub-2 million won't cut the mustard. That's why they are stacking it, getting all the legends they can, doing draft shows, putting Brock in a title match, etc. 

However, its robbing Peter to pay Paul here, because its coming out of RAW's hide and RAW is doing really low numbers. 

As the season wears on and the Monday Night Football games get hotter, playoff baseball comes around and NBA starts again, that's a lot of pressure on RAW, and they are losing some major acts.

This is all quite apart from RAW people getting sent to NXT or doing guest spots on NXT. I think that could happen too and water down RAW some more.


----------



## Deathiscoming

May be it even comes down to Raw being so bad owing to lack of real stars and talent that they go back to it being a 2-hr show:lol


----------



## Freelancer

I don't see how it's possible for them to go much higher than 2 million viewers for Smackdown. I'm sure it will be over 2 at the beginning, but once the initial pop wears off and Vince starts re-writing every show an hour before, they'll more than likely drop.

If Fox seriously expects 3.5 million,


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> I remember the leaked expectation being 3.5 million on the low end. So anything in the 2.0 million range seems like a real danger zone IMO.


that's likely not a true report, no network is going to say there is an expected number of total viewers you need to get, the number they will need to hit expectations on is the demo rating. While they are still doing ok there for the timeslot they have Friday night, its similar to other shows that night on broadcast, the key will be if those same people are going to watch on Friday, or will it be an older audience. RAW and smackdown are down 20% in the 18-49 demo over this time last year, so they are losing those viewers faster than other groups. and a shift to Friday is not going to do them any favors with that.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> that's likely not a true report, no network is going to say there is an expected number of total viewers you need to get, the number they will need to hit expectations on is the demo rating. While they are still doing ok there for the timeslot they have Friday night, its similar to other shows that night on broadcast, the key will be if those same people are going to watch on Friday, or will it be an older audience. RAW and smackdown are down 20% in the 18-49 demo over this time last year, so they are losing those viewers faster than other groups. and a shift to Friday is not going to do them any favors with that.


Impossible to know how true or not it is. However based upon where SD viewership was during the negotiations an expectation by Fox of well over 3 million certainly looks plausible. As far as the demos go, sure those are more of a focus than the overall number but at the same time in the overall scheme of things those numbers are going to move together. At the end of the day I can’t imagine that Fox was expecting anything less than a 50-70% improvement over what we are seeing now. Perhaps they will readjust their expectations or perhaps they will hold wwe’s feet to the fire. That’s the unknown right now. I think out of the gate SD will do fine. What happens down the road is where it could get interesting.


----------



## Strike Force

Jonhern said:


> that's likely not a true report, no network is going to say there is an expected number of total viewers you need to get, the number they will need to hit expectations on is the demo rating.


Um...that's simply not true because those expectations aren't mutually exclusive. The network can _absolutely_ express expectations in both specific demos and overall numbers; in fact, they do all the time, particularly with a first-time high-level content provider like WWE.

Anyway, the multiple big-ticket TV partnerships that once looked like a huge coup for WWE might end up tearing it apart. It's not possible to make the shows truly "equal", and thus WWE constantly runs the risk of one partner feeling like they're getting an inferior product. And, if a character gets red-hot and the networks start a tug-of-war over the character, whom do you placate? The new partner that's given you your biggest platform ever but will quickly banish you to the B-station if your numbers are soft, or the tried-and-true cable partner that really has nothing else in the cupboard except you?


----------



## llj

Keep in mind that when they got their recent TV deals, the WWE was riding a ratings high for that quarter (early 2018 to be precise), in a way that was counter to the trends of the last 10 years. I think the expectation was that the WWE was on an upswing. Of course, after they inked the deals and a quarter later, they numbers plummeted again.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1- 2.372M
H2- 2.213M
H3- 2.044M
3H- 2.210M*










*Viewership:
H2 Vs H1 ( - 6.70% / - 0.159M )
H3 Vs H2 ( - 7.64% / - 0.169M )
H3 Vs H1 ( - 13.83% / - 0.328M )
9/23/19 Vs 9/16/19 ( - 2.73% / - 0.062M )

Demo (9/23/19 Vs 9/16/19):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.760D
H2- 0.710D Vs 0.750D
H3- 0.650D Vs 0.640D
3H- 0.707D Vs 0.717D

Note: RAW is 5th, 6th & 7th by hourly demo & 9th, 11th & 13th by hourly viewership.*










*Viewership (9/23/19 Vs 9/24/18):
H1- 2.372M Vs 2.493M
H2- 2.213M Vs 2.275M
H3- 2.044M Vs 2.281M
3H- 2.210M Vs 2.350M ( - 5.96% / - 0.140M )

Demo (9/23/19 Vs 9/24/18):
H1- 0.760D Vs 0.840D
H2- 0.710D Vs 0.800D
H3- 0.650D Vs 0.820D
3H- 0.707D Vs 0.830D

Note: RAW this week last year was 4th, 7th & 6th by hourly demo & 11th, 14th & 13th by hourly viewership.*


----------



## Punkholic

2.372M
2.213M
2.044M
Avg - 2.210M


----------



## llj

Still hanging onto to those 2s for dear life. Why don't they just fall already?


----------



## Punkholic

llj said:


> Still hanging onto to those 2s for dear life. Why don't they just fall already?


Probably will when an NFL game that's actually interesting is on. The Bears fucked the trashy Redskins up the ass last night. Game was over before halftime.

They're lucky America's Team doesn't have a Monday night game until November because when the Dallas Cowboys play, America watches.


----------



## Chris90

>2.2


----------



## Chrome

DA BEARS giving Vinnie Mac's carny show the business.


----------



## Not Lying

Only 6% drop y-o-y? not bad.


----------



## ClintDagger

Last year this week was a very competitive game with the Steelers plus the Fitzmagic stuff. So we’re probably comparing a rating where MNFs effect was minimized versus one that was on the higher end. Next week it’s the winless Steelers and winless Bengals so Raw should stay in this range for at least one more week. Starting in October is where MNF will hammer Raw down to below 2MM. There’s games featuring the Packers, Pats, Cowboys, Chiefs, Rams, Eagles, and Saints coming up Oct-Dec.


----------



## bradatar

*WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

They are reporting the lowest rated quarter-hour segments over the last month have all been Seth Rollins' segments. 

This suggests segments such as Mike and Maria Kannellis and the cuck angle, Ricochet talking, Lacey Evans v Natalya matches, and the Vikings are being watched more than Seth Rollins. 


:O:O:O:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4


----------



## JonLeduc

*Re: WOR: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Can we really be surprised about that ?

He was always one of my favorite but for the last couple of months, damn he's been boring.

Something needs to happen with him. Maybe a heel turn i don't know.


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

DammitC is about to defend Rollins. :brock4


----------



## TheLooseCanon

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Save me JAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cooper09

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

No wonder. He has been acting like an unlikeable geek. When something stupid like Mike and Maria's cuck angle outdoes him then you know this is a universal opinion.


----------



## Balor fan

Well he is the Ratings-Slayer


----------



## Nakahoeup

Seth Rollins is a gymnast with a boring personality. He's not tough, badass, funny, exciting, intimidating, in your face, different, or must see. 

He's just boring. And no storyline is going to help that. He might as well be block of wood.


----------



## Purple Haze

So, Ricochet is a bigger draw than Rollins ...
What a terrible FOTC


----------



## Jersey

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

The Beast Slayer Y'all 







:brock4 :brock4


----------



## RBrooks

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Not surprising. Rollins has been utter garbage lately. I didn't even hate the guy, I kinda tolerated him to a degree, but for the past year or so he became unbearable for me. 

Honestly, it probably started with Ambrose feud. Seth was always good during Ambrose feuds, but since last year he was just... ugh. 



Fearless Viper said:


> DammitC is about to defend Rollins. :brock4


For the record, that Brock gif you copy and paste at the end of each and every post of yours doesn't make you cool, or smart, or funny. You might as well make it your signature.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Well he's almost always in the main event, and I don't blame people from tuning out after nearly 3 hours.

I don't think Rollins is an "anti-draw" persay, he's just a guy in a spot. I think it would probably be similar if you put someone else in that spot too. The company have no stars.

The only star potential top babyface I can think of who could actually draw is Daniel Bryan, but they _refuse _to push him.


----------



## raymond1985

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Well he's almost always in the main event, and I don't blame people from tuning out after nearly 3 hours.
> 
> I don't think Rollins is an "anti-draw" persay, he's just a guy in a spot. I think it would probably be similar if you put someone else in that spot too. The company have no stars.
> 
> The only star potential top babyface I can think of who could actually draw is Daniel Bryan, but they _refuse _to push him.


Bryan would not draw well. He's not FOTC material either. But he is better suited for the role than Rollins.

- He's the lowest drawing RAW champion of this decade in terms of average house show attendance.

- The PPV he headlined in June drew the lowest advance in recent memory.

- And now it's been confirmed that he isn't drawing well on TV. 

Surely it's time to pull the plug and give someone else a chance. WWE should be aiming to bring in the most viewers possible. Not just to please DammitC.


----------



## Fearless Viper

RBrooks said:


> For the record, that Brock gif you copy and paste at the end of each and every post of yours doesn't make you cool, or smart, or funny. You might as well make it your signature.


:brock4


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Bryan would not draw well. He's not FOTC material either. But he is better suited for the role than Rollins.


He drew well in 2013 when Cena was out and Bryan was the top babyface on Raw feuding with Orton and The Shield. 

Bryan was on the cusp of becoming a mainstream star, before both booking and his body failed him.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

This isn't meant as a defense of Seth, I'm on the drop the title and shouldn't have beaten Brock never mind twice team, but ratings all across WWE are in the shitter, it's a terrible show.


----------



## llj

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

It won't matter to them.


----------



## RBrooks

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



SayWhatAgain! said:


> He drew well in 2013 when Cena was out and Bryan was the top babyface on Raw feuding with Orton and The Shield.
> 
> Bryan was on the cusp of becoming a mainstream star, before both booking and his body failed him.


Honestly, these draw talks won't get anyone anywhere. They don't refuse to push just Bryan, they refuse to push anybody. Their golden boy Reigns is losing matches to Rowan and Shane. Their chosen one Rollins is being geeked out on TV every week. That's incompetence, of course, but on the other hand, they don't want draws and stars, because they see themselves as a bigger entity than the roster. So it doesn't really matter who could or couldn't draw. I would say plenty of guys could, but we will never have the opportunity to find out. 

The company sees the whole roster as geeks, and it's clearly working judging by some of the people here.


----------



## ste1592

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

To think they are working their asses off to come up with a way to have the hottest act in WWE look strong after losing to this guy... :kurtcry3

Honestly, I don't think the blame is 100% on Seth Rollins, but it's time to move on. Let the Fiend decimate him, and let him rebuild his character, possibly without being emasculated by his girlfriend and geeking over old has beens.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Well, you know what they say: A couple that tanks the ratings together, stays together 

rollins


----------



## virus21

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Jersey said:


> The Beast Slayer Y'all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :brock4 :brock4


----------



## Schwartzxz

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

I still cant believe they let that guy beat Lesnar 2 times this year. the only guy to beat him 2 times since 2012.


----------



## Jersey

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Schwartzxz said:


> I still cant believe they let that guy beat Lesnar 2 times this year. the only guy to beat him 2 times since 2012.


Exactly I still can't believe it myself.


----------



## domotime2

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

where are the numbers? link?


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> This isn't meant as a defense of Seth, I'm on the drop the title and shouldn't have beaten Brock never mind twice team, but ratings all across WWE are in the shitter, it's a terrible show.


Even under the 3 hour format, it is to be expected that the top names will move the needle in comparison to undercard talent. Look at this data from 2013 when RAW was 3 hours - https://lastwordonsports.com/2014/02/02/dissecting-wwe-raw-ratings-2011-2013-by-superstar/

It shows that the biggest stars all delivered viewership gains. Rollins is the most pushed performer in the company. He shouldn't be drawing lowest quarters.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Schwartzxz said:


> I still cant believe they let that guy beat Lesnar 2 times this year. the only guy to beat him 2 times since 2012.


And the only guy to beat him clean at that.

He's the fucking worst, and they're going to do NOTHING to fix it. Absolutely nothing. He still keeps the title, they're still going full bore with him as pushed harder than John Cena has ever been pushed. I hope AEW gets 2.5 million viewers on their debut and Raw becomes the C brand, I really do. Vince deserves to be a loser.

For Brock fans, though, don't worry, he's beating Seth at Survivor Series. It's the rest of us that have to suffer.


----------



## hypnobitch

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

I just think RAW in particular is a lost cause right now. 

They insist on having Rollins as the top guy, I always give credit where it is due, his in ring work has never been a issue for me but damn the guy is just a wet blanket bore in any talk segment and exudes no realistic ability in making us believe he is a top guy. 

The main people that are pushed on RAW is a prime example of why ratings suck so often, Rollins, Corbin another charisma vacuum, they just brought back Lashley the guy personality forgot, Evans who is as generic and weak in performance in every way even in the ring and then you have nonsense like these stupid angles with Rusev and Lana and Mike and Maria, top that with 24/7 BS roll up shenanigans and you have one of the poorest weakest and laziest products in a long time. 

Anyone that can sit through 3 hours of RAW now truly deserves a human endurance award. 

It will not change until Vince realises that all those names should not be in the positions they are in and does a mass reshuffle in use of talent but lets face it it ain't going to happen.


----------



## Dat dude Savage

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

He really lives up to his slogan “burn it down”


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



domotime2 said:


> where are the numbers? link?


There is no link/numbers nor is there any related news from WON mentioning any of this.

For the record, if we use the OP's logic, then he is basically implying that more people are watching Lacey Evans, Natalya, Viking Raiders, Maria Kanellis, and Mike Kanellis over the likes of Bray Wyatt along with Braun Strowman (since both those men have mostly been featured in segments with Seth Rollins); which is pretty much bullshit.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



ShaggyTooDope said:


> Cena, HHH, and Goldberg beat him clean too.


No, they did not. Cena hit him with a chain and FU'd him onto steel steps, Triple H hit him with a sledgehammer and Pedigreed him onto steel steps, and Goldberg caught him because Brock turned his back on him. None of that is clean. Seth Rollins is the only person since Brock returned in 2012 to go into a match with Brock Lesnar, face him in a 1 on 1 match, no weapons, no interference, no distractions, no turning your back, no nothing, and actually beat him fair and square in the center of the ring. And not only is he the only person to do it, he did it with broken ribs.

This is the most ridiculous Superman push that anyone has ever gotten.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> There is no link nor is there any related news from WON mentioning any of this.
> 
> For the record, if we use the OP's logic, then he is basically implying that more people are watching Lacey Evans, Natalya, Viking Raiders, Maria Kanellis, and Mike Kanellis over the likes of Bray Wyatt along with Braun Strowman (since both those men have mostly been featured in segments with Seth Rollins); which is bullshit.



It's all over the place kid. Meltzer has done the quarter hour ratings since Heyman took over. You can look at the ratings yourself boy. Nice try with the "NO SOURCE LOLZ". You think I'm out to get your boy, when ALL I do is post facts. Try again bucko.  Also, yes that is exactly what I am saying. People would rather watch the Vikings squash the club then watch Seth Rollins cry or cut awful promos.


----------



## the44boz

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Put him on ROH and I couldn't spot him in the ring with all their other performers.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



ShaggyTooDope said:


> The Cena and HHH matches were no DQ, so they were clean losses, and attacking someone while their back is turned is legal.


Getting destroyed with a weapon isn't clean.


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



ShaggyTooDope said:


> The Cena and HHH matches were no DQ, so they were clean losses, and attacking someone while their back is turned is legal.


I don't care if they were no DQ, that's not clean. There's no such thing as clean in a no DQ match. You hit a guy with a weapon, that's fuckery, he has an out. Same with turning your back. When Goldberg faced Brock without his back turned, he lost in 5 minutes. I'm not calling that win clean because Brock has an excuse. Clean means no excuses, this guy is better than you. Seth Rollins is the only person who Brock can't point to and say that something happened here, I got hit with a weapon, I got too cocky, nothing. He got beat. It's only happened once.

Even Roman Reigns wasn't allowed to beat Brock clean. That's how out of control this push is for this failure.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Doesn’t surprise me. After Bryan left ROH and Rollins was Tyler Black and he took over, they had less sell outs. He’s not a draw at all. His arrogance turns people off.,


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> There is no link/numbers nor is there any related news from WON mentioning any of this.
> 
> For the record, if we use the OP's logic, then he is basically implying that more people are watching Lacey Evans, Natalya, Viking Raiders, Maria Kanellis, and Mike Kanellis over the likes of Bray Wyatt along with Braun Strowman (since both those men have mostly been featured in segments with Seth Rollins); which is pretty much bullshit.


But I thought you didn't care about drawing?


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



RBrooks said:


> Honestly, these draw talks won't get anyone anywhere. They don't refuse to push just Bryan, they refuse to push anybody. Their golden boy Reigns is losing matches to Rowan and Shane. Their chosen one Rollins is being geeked out on TV every week. That's incompetence, of course, but on the other hand, they don't want draws and stars, because they see themselves as a bigger entity than the roster. So it doesn't really matter who could or couldn't draw. I would say plenty of guys could, but we will never have the opportunity to find out.
> 
> The company sees the whole roster as geeks, and it's clearly working judging by some of the people here.


They're pushing the fuck out of Kofi tbh.



Kratosx23 said:


> Goldberg caught him because Brock turned his back on him.


??

I remember Goldberg shoving Lesnar on his ass, and as soon as Lesnar got up, he speared him and hit the jack hammer for the win. Maybe I should go back and rewatch the match.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Burn the segments down.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Not a surprise. I like Rollins in general, but he's damaged goods. 

They need to identify a new top star on the undercard and really develop them. I have no idea who it is.

But this is the fate WWE deserves. They pushed the wrong two guys out of the three Shield members and let the best one go. The one month Ambrose had against HHH was better than any feud either Rollins or Reigns had against him.



ShaggyTooDope said:


> The Cena and HHH matches were no DQ, so they were clean losses, and attacking someone while their back is turned is legal.


Agreed. If you beat someone in a No DQ match using a foreign object, you won clean. Brock could've used the steps, too. In fact, I believe he brought them into the match.

By the same measure, Brock beat CM Punk clean despite Heyman interference and using chairs. Them's the rules.


Now, it'd be one thing is Brock had 10 guys beat CM Punk down, etc. That would make Brock look bad.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> It's all over the place kid. Meltzer has done the quarter hour ratings since Heyman took over. You can look at the ratings yourself boy. Nice try with the "NO SOURCE LOLZ". You think I'm out to get your boy, when ALL I do is post facts. Try again bucko.  Also, yes that is exactly what I am saying. People would rather watch the Vikings squash the club then watch Seth Rollins cry or cut awful promos.


Ok, that's cool. 

Post the dozens of links showing your "facts" since they're apparently "all over the place" because there's pretty much been nothing so far. Besides, it's not like you're known for having an obvious agenda against the guy or anything over the past several months, so you're totally reliable here unk2

Sure, let's pretend that more folks watch the Viking Raiders wrestle in heatless matches over Seth Rollins selling for Bray Wyatt and cutting average promos :lol



raymond1985 said:


> But I thought you didn't care about drawing?


Why are you still obsessed about drawing ability, and why are your reading comprehension skills still mediocre?


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Why are you still obsessed about drawing ability, and why are your reading comprehension skills still mediocre?


Stop deflecting. You clearly care about drawing because you disputed what the OP was saying, which was related to drawing TV numbers.

Here is the proof that Meltzer said it (19:30) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oaLtP7gLBo

He clearly states that Rollins has been drawing the lowest rated segments in the past few weeks. And adds that he would not be surprised if he did so again this week.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Ok, that's cool.
> 
> Post the dozens of links showing your "facts" since they're apparently "all over the place" because there's pretty much been nothing so far. Besides, it's not like you're known for having an obvious agenda against the guy or anything over the past several months, so you're totally reliable here unk2
> 
> Sure, let's pretend that more folks watch the Viking Raiders wrestle in heatless matches over Seth Rollins selling for Bray Wyatt and cutting average promos :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you still obsessed about drawing ability, and why are your reading comprehension skills still mediocre?


 I got no reason to lie geek.



raymond1985 said:


> Stop deflecting. You clearly care about drawing because you disputed what the OP was saying, which was related to drawing TV numbers.
> 
> Here is the proof that Meltzer said it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oaLtP7gLBo
> 
> He clearly states that Rollins has been drawing the lowest rated segments in the past few weeks. And adds that he would not be surprised if he did so again this week.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> I got no reason to lie geek.


The true geek here would spend the majority of his time on here pissing and moaning about wrestlers he dislikes on a daily basis (which is basically you) :mj


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> The true geek here would spend the majority of his time on here pissing and moaning about wrestlers he dislikes on a daily basis (which is basically you) :mj


OP is under 50 words. Took me about 30 seconds to type out. As I said previously, I merely post the facts. Keep deflectin' kiddo :rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> The true geek here would spend the majority of his time on here pissing and moaning about wrestlers he dislikes on a daily basis (which is basically you) :mj


Have you got anything to add to the topic?

Rollins has been in the lowest rated segments recently. Please discuss.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> OP is under 50 words. Took me about 30 seconds to type out. As I said previously, I merely post the facts. Keep deflectin' kiddo :rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4


Spamming smileys in order to hide the fact that the guy makes you seethe really hard. Thanks for proving my point


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Spamming smileys in order to hide the fact that the guy makes you seethe really hard. Thanks for proving my point


You asked the OP for proof. Now it has been supplied to you.

Anything else to add to the actual topic?


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



RubberbandGoat said:


> Doesn’t surprise me. After Bryan left ROH and Rollins was Tyler Black and he took over, they had less sell outs. He’s not a draw at all. His arrogance turns people off.,


I don't think it's his arrogance that's the issue. It's a combination of things, but for him personally, it's his overall lack of ability to be anything other than just an ordinary guy, a boring one at that. But sitting here and putting this all on him and acting like we should be pushing someone else is equally laughable.

The gif of Rollins screaming like a little bitch is humorous and will get me every time. But the fact of the matter is, someone backstage, whether it be Vince or someone in creative, told Rollins to do that. That wasn't his call to make. At the end of the day, these guys are doing the best they can with the material they are being given. And the material they are being given, for the most part, is terrible. 

But it goes further than that. I've heard multiple people now claim that "there aren't any stars" or "this is the era of no stars" and both statements completely miss the point. This isn't the case of there being no stars, this is the case of there being no people around CAPABLE of being stars, at least the ones who continue to receive favorable treatment. Seth Rollins does nothing at an elite level, and I'd even go as far as to say that he isn't really good at anything, but look at what he has to work with. Bray Wyatt doesn't seem to understand the concept of "you're a heel so make people hate you". Baron Corbin actually does try but simply isn't talented enough to take it to the next level (for the record, I am not saying that Corbin isn't talented, I actually think he is very good for the most part but there's nothing about him that stands out and makes him special compared to others apart from the fact that he gives a shit). Braun can't be anything other than the monster among men with decent in-ring and mic skills. AJ Styles is a Seth Rollins clone with elite in-ring talent. 

There's no one here that can be the next Steve Austin and carry the company to a new generation of fans because there aren't Steve Austin's just lying around waiting to spring up. This current path the WWE is on now is the same path they should have been on back in the 90s. If it wasn't for Austin and The Rock bailing them out, I don't really know if they'd be around anymore. We want to sit here and pretend that things would be different if Rollins weren't the top guy? Please, we'd be having this same discussion about someone else, whether it be now, sooner, or later, but it would happen. 

And I should point out that they have been unlucky. Daniel Bryan's concussion issues and neck injury, Edge's injury, what happened with Benoit and Eddie, and television as a whole dying. But I can just as easily point to them pushing guys like CM Punk and Dean Ambrose away. Could Ambrose had been the guy who at least kept things going and build momentum? I don't know, maybe. He showed signs of brilliance during his Smackdown run but that was also due to being under a much better booking team, one that has since been replaced and the results speak for themselves. 

Things are not going to change, not for a while. This is going to continue being Vince's show and that's just the way it is. Let's stop sitting here and shitting on Rollins for his ratings performance, because at this point it's silly. I will continue to give him criticism for his poor performances, poor mic work and overall lack of ability to be anything interesting, but please, lets not act like things would be much different if someone else were in his position.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Spamming smileys in order to hide the fact that the guy makes you seethe really hard. Thanks for proving my point


You've brought a lot to this conversation. Go try to railroad another thread that gets you in the feels


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

not surprised. The last hour always draws the least and he's pretty much been in the last hour.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> You asked the OP for proof. Now it has been supplied to you.
> 
> Anything else to add to the actual topic?


Dave Meltzer quickly followed that statement up by claiming that those type of segments (including ones with Rollins) in the 3rd hour have been known to do poorly compared to the earlier segments since they're so late in the show (which is exhausting for plenty of viewers), and he also brought up how the recent Raw episodes are airing live during football season (which usually struggle in the ratings department); but I'm not surprised that petty folks, such as yourself and the OP, conveniently left that part out so that you can make a huge deal out of nothing :lol

Now are you finally going to make a decent post that isn't about being obsessed with drawing ability, or you are going to continue to be so laughably predictable? 



bradatar said:


> You've brought a lot to this conversation. Go try to railroad another thread that gets you in the feels


Hey, at least I didn't cry and "quit" the forum like you did at the end of the last ppv :lmao



Jan.S.Gelz said:


> But my god, tone it down a bit.


No.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

So the only 'evidence' of this I can find is Meltzer saying that Seth has drawn low the last couple of weeks, not including this RAW.
That's not exactly "lowest-rated quarter hours last month". It's just a thread of people shooting exaggerated 'statistics' out, despite the only source being a 10s clip on YouTube with no numbers or anything to back it up (even if true, you NEED evidence. That's how this works).

I wouldn't expect high numbers or anything for the Seth segments as of late, as they've been, well... nothing. He comes out, Fiend does spooky things, end segment.
He's been booked like shit for a long time, and you can tell he's coasted ever since that horrible Corbin feud, which I don't blame him on cause who would take that seriously lol.


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Dave Meltzer quickly followed that statement up by claiming that those type of segments (including ones with Rollins) in the 3rd hour have been known to do poorly compared to the earlier segments since they're so late in the show (which is exhausting for plenty of viewers), and he also brought up the recent Raw episodes airing live during the football season; but I'm not surprised that petty folks such as yourself and the OP conveniently left that part out so that you can make a huge deal out of nothing :lol
> 
> Now are you finally going to make a decent post that isn't about being obsessed with drawing ability, or you are going to continue to be so laughably predictable?


1) That excuse does not wash. In 2013, when RAW was 3 hours long and up against Football, the biggest TV draws, meaning those who increased viewership quarter by quarter, were the top stars. In other words, those who appeared a lot in hour 3. 

2) If you don't care about drawing, then why have you chosen to open and post in this thread?

3) Why so defensive? Does Rollins really mean this much to you?


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Dave Meltzer quickly followed that statement up by claiming that those type of segments (including ones with Rollins) in the 3rd hour have been known to do poorly compared to the earlier segments since they're so late in the show (which is exhausting for plenty of viewers), and he also brought up how the recent Raw episodes are airing live during football season (which usually struggle in the ratings department); but I'm not surprised that petty folks, such as yourself and the OP, conveniently left that part out so that you can make a huge deal out of nothing :lol
> 
> Now are you finally going to make a decent post that isn't about being obsessed with drawing ability, or you are going to continue to be so laughably predictable?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, at least I didn't cry and "quit" the forum like you did at the end of the last ppv :lmao



Deflection. Deflection. Deflection. :x


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> 1) That excuse does not wash. In 2013, when RAW was 3 hours long and up against Football, the biggest TV draws, meaning those who increased viewership quarter by quarter, were the top stars. In other words, those who appeared a lot in hour 3.


You're ignoring the fact that the Raw episodes back in late-2013 were MUCH better in quality compared to now because the top talents (John Cena/Randy Orton/Daniel Bryan/CM Punk/Roman Reigns/Seth Rollins/Dean Ambrose/Bray Wyatt) were actually booked well for the most part, and the WWE actually tried writing engaging/interesting storylines; so more viewers were more likely to stick around for the 3rd hour since the product back in 2013 was actually good for a certain period of time.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Tbf Seth is always in the main and that is usually the lowest.

Also, he has been feuding with the Fiend this month, so if he ain't drawing, neither is Bray.

Don't get me started on the pussification of his character all for the sake of THE FIEND who isn't doing shit himself.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Blame has to go to who Rollins has been feuding with as well, and that would be The Fiend. I get that the crowd has been going nuts for him, but I don't know if he's going to be a huge hit with everyone watching at home, dude is so fucking corny to me.


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> You're ignoring the fact that the Raw episodes back in late-2013 were MUCH better in quality compared to now because the top talents (John Cena/Randy Orton/Daniel Bryan/CM Punk/Roman Reigns/Seth Rollins/Dean Ambrose/Bray Wyatt) were actually booked well for the most part, and the WWE actually tried writing engaging/interesting storylines; so more viewers were more likely to stick around for the 3rd hour since the product back in 2013 was actually good for a certain period of time.


Late 2013 was nothing special either. The viewership throughout the summer and some of the autumn of 2014 was better than the same points in 2013. 

The Orton vs Bryan, and Orton vs Big Show feuds flopped. So much so that they rushed Cena back for the December PPV. 

Still, the common theme back then was that when they booked a proper star on the show, the viewership increased quarter by quarter. 

Do you believe that Rollins would be a major draw if booked properly?


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

so Firefly funhouse is drawing better than The Fiend appearances?


----------



## JeSeGaN

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Y'know, I have nothing against you DC. 

But my god, tone it down a bit. You asked for proof, it got delivered. Throwing a hissy fit ain't gonna change that. And you stated multiple times that you don't care about ratings and numbers. So why care in this instance? Seth has the lowest ratings. That's a fact. You can argue semantics all day, but why?


----------



## Kratosx23

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



The Definition of Technician said:


> so Firefly funhouse is drawing better than The Fiend appearances?


The Fiend has only been appearing when Seth is around, having already driven off the viewers, so yeah, that shouldn't be surprising.

Besides, people like mic work. A lot. The Fiend doesn't do that. The biggest selling point of Bray Wyatt is his talking.


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Kratosx23 said:


> The Fiend has only been appearing when Seth is around, having already driven off the viewers, so yeah, that shouldn't be surprising.
> 
> Besides, people like mic work. A lot. The Fiend doesn't do that. The biggest selling point of Bray Wyatt is his talking.


Oh well. On youtube The Fiend gets like 4-5 times more viewers than firefly funhouse segments.


----------



## Schwartzxz

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Kratosx23 said:


> pushed harder than John Cena has ever been pushed


one thing I cant agree here. nobody was worse than Cena. not even Roman. people may forget how bad it was with Cena but I never will. it fucking killed WWE for me.


----------



## ShiningStar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> They are reporting the lowest rated quarter-hour segments over the last month have all been Seth Rollins' segments.
> 
> This suggests segments such as Mike and Maria Kannellis and the cuck angle, Ricochet talking, Lacey Evans v Natalya matches, and the Vikings are being watched more than Seth Rollins.
> 
> 
> :O:O:O:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4


Hard to believe people would rather watch a cuck segment featuring a woman and her husband then a Cuck segment btwn Seth Rollins and a Racist Senior Citizen.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Kratosx23 said:


> The Fiend has only been appearing when Seth is around, having already driven off the viewers, so yeah, that shouldn't be surprising.
> 
> Besides, people like mic work. A lot. The Fiend doesn't do that. The biggest selling point of Bray Wyatt is his talking.


Those Firehouse play segments haven't been drawing anything great either.

Dave mentioned it on the forums. So his talking ain't doing shit.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.701M [6th] | 0.930D [4th]
H2: 2.592M [9th] | 0.910D [5th]
H3: 2.416M [14th] | 0.840D [6th]

3H: 2.570M | 0.893D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.109M | - 4.04% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.15% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.176M | - 6.79% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 7.69% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.285M | - 10.55% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 9.68% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.360M | + 16.29% ]
[ + 0.176D | + 26.31% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ + 0.268M | + 11.64% ]
[ + 0.130D | + 17.04% ]*


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Good number for this day and age...


----------



## Chris22

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

I'm a huge Seth fan and this does not bother me at all, i watch his segments and always will.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Leave it to Husky Harris to find a great gimmick, run it to death and lose fans interest in a couple of months.

The story of his career. 

He was a bust as Bray Wyatt and he'll be a bust as THE FIEND. This time he's taking their top babyface down with him.

What will this so called geniuses next incaranation be and how long will that last :lol

This dude trying to do be this generations Jericho with the multiple characters however unlike Jericho they were actually successful.

Jericho as a comedy sidekick with THE LIST > any of Bray's characters. And then we have his fan boys go on here talking about tailunt and his genius. You can give a turd a different shade of paint but a turd will always remain a turd.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I think it bodes well for SmackDown with The Rock appearing on it. Obviously, not sustainable, but I think they'll get their "See? We popped a rating!" rating this week.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Ace said:


> Leave it to Husky Harris to find a great gimmick, run it to death and lose fans interest in a couple of months.
> 
> The story of his career.
> 
> He was a bust as Bray Wyatt and he'll be a bust as THE FIEND. This time he's taking their top babyface down with him.
> 
> What will this so called genius next incaranation be and how long will that last :lol
> 
> This dude trying to do be this generations Jericho with the multiple characters however unlike Jericho they were actually successful.
> 
> Jericho as a comedy sidekick with THE LIST > any of Bray's characters. ANd then we have his fan boys go on here talking about tailunt and his genius. You can give a turd a different shade of color but a turd will always remain a turd.


:nah


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Lorromire said:


> :nah


 The funny thing is he had actually found a winner with this gimmick and had the creative freedom to make it big along with Vince's backing.

He got lazy, did the same shit every week and fans moved on. He's playing a footnote in Rusev's cuck adventures.

You might say I'm jumping the gun, but we know Bray Wyatt. This is what he does.

His Firehouse play segments were great to start off with, a month later they got repetitive and they were the same shit each week. People tuned out, then he appears on TV for a month doing the exact same thing each week with the crappy d list horror music playing in the background as Seth Rollins plays the damsel in distress selling fear for Bray Wyatt in a mask.


----------



## raymond1985

These guys showed the midgets and the charisma vacuums how it is done.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That number will make people mad. I'm all for it.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Ace said:


> Leave it to Husky Harris to find a great gimmick, run it to death and lose fans interest in a couple of months.
> 
> The story of his career.
> 
> He was a bust as Bray Wyatt and he'll be a bust as THE FIEND. This time he's taking their top babyface down with him.
> 
> What will this so called genius next incaranation be and how long will that last :lol
> 
> This dude trying to do be this generations Jericho with the multiple characters however unlike Jericho they were actually successful.
> 
> Jericho as a comedy sidekick with THE LIST > any of Bray's characters. And then we have his fan boys go on here talking about tailunt and his genius. You can give a turd a different shade of paint but a turd will always remain a turd.




Right right right. Just like it was Brock, AJ, and Corbins fault. Seth clearly cannot be blamed! Gotta be Brays fault nobody gives a fuck about the champ! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> Right right right. Just like it was Brock, AJ, and Corbins fault. Seth clearly cannot be blamed! Gotta be Brays fault nobody gives a fuck about the champ!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Seth has been butchered, dude is a cuck/beta. We all know it. He sucks, but what's Bray's excuse for doing poorly. 

That's the actual story here.

HE ACTUALLY HAS CREATIVE FREEDOM :lmao

What is happening now is all him. People give Seth shit all the time and deservedly so, but he doesn't have the creative freedom, his character is what Vince wants it to be whereas by all accounts Bray is given full control of his character to do what he wants. What's his excuse?


----------



## The XL 2

I'm not surprised for the slight bump, they were promoting it as the season premier. It's probably not sustainable though


----------



## The XL 2

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Rollins is shit but Wyatt is going to suffer for this more than anyone most likely. Vince is gonna blame him for these segments tanking.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



The XL 2 said:


> Rollins is shit but Wyatt is going to suffer for this more than anyone most likely. Vince is gonna blame him for these segments tanking.


 Maybe he should do something new, all he does is the same crap each week. People called him out on it before this week, this is the same problem Bray Wyatt had.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Ace said:


> Seth has been butchered, dude is a cuck/beta. We all know it. He sucks, but what's Bray's excuse for doing poorly.
> 
> That's the actual story here.
> 
> HE ACTUALLY HAS CREATIVE FREEDOM :lmao
> 
> What is happening now is all him. People give Seth shit all the time and deservedly so, but he doesn't have the creative freedom, his character is what Vince wants it to be whereas by all accounts Bray is given full control of his character to do what he wants. What's his excuse?




Seth being a shit champ for 6 or 7 months has zero to do with Wyatt. Literally nothing. Corbin got separated from the geek and people on this forum are actually praising him now for Christ’s sake. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The XL 2

Ace said:


> Leave it to Husky Harris to find a great gimmick, run it to death and lose fans interest in a couple of months.
> 
> The story of his career.
> 
> He was a bust as Bray Wyatt and he'll be a bust as THE FIEND. This time he's taking their top babyface down with him.
> 
> What will this so called geniuses next incaranation be and how long will that last :lol
> 
> This dude trying to do be this generations Jericho with the multiple characters however unlike Jericho they were actually successful.
> 
> Jericho as a comedy sidekick with THE LIST > any of Bray's characters. And then we have his fan boys go on here talking about tailunt and his genius. You can give a turd a different shade of paint but a turd will always remain a turd.


I really want to like Bray and I appreciate that he comes up with these characters, but as a performer he's missing something. I'm not sure what it is, he talks well and he's decently charismatic it, I can't put my finger on it. I think it's the fact that he's just not menacing looking, nor does he have a menacing aura about him. Guys like Umaga, Kane, Undertaker, Meng, Mark Henry, Snitsky(before the foot fetish and then the bad teeth shit) Lesnar, etc, etc, all had menace. Wyatt is like a Rusev monster heel where no matter how they dress him up, there is no menace about him. It hurts this run he's having.



Ace said:


> Maybe he should do something new, all he does is the same crap each week. People called him out on it before this week, this is the same problem Bray Wyatt had.


The character has no depth or variety. And him coming out killing guys all the time doesn't work for him, he's not 97-98 Kane. He's fooked, this gimmick has a very apparent short shelf life.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



The XL 2 said:


> The character has no depth or variety. And him coming out killing guys all the time doesn't work for him, he's not 97-98 Kane. He's fooked, this gimmick has a very apparent short shelf life.


 I think he could have been amazing if this was his first incarnation and we didn't know it was Bray Wyatt (the guy who was geeked out and was jobbing to Matt Hardy) with a mask. There would have been some mystique around him and more patience, but we know how Bray Wyatt went and he's showing the same problems here.



The XL 2 said:


> I really want to like Bray and I appreciate that he comes up with these characters, but as a performer he's missing something. I'm not sure what it is, he talks well and he's decently charismatic it, I can't put my finger on it. I think it's the fact that he's just not menacing looking, nor does he have a menacing aura about him. Guys like Umaga, Kane, Undertaker, Meng, Mark Henry, Snitsky(before the foot fetish and then the bad teeth shit) Lesnar, etc, etc, all had menace. Wyatt is like a Rusev monster heel where no matter how they dress him up, there is no menace about him. It hurts this run he's having.


 It's the physical charisma.

He has the character, good voice and mic skills, but he's a FAT guy with a mask on who shows up randomly and sticks his hand down peoples throats. It's not like Joe where it works either, not saying he needs to be shredded. If he were 6'7 and had a solid build it would work better.


----------



## rexmundi

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Mr. Hour 3 aka Mr. 1/4 Hour :Cocky

Seth has been the most pushed performer in the company for the last year. He has been a double champ twice in less than a year, a two time universal champion, won the rumble and beat Brock clean. He has been given "the rub" of appearing alongside DX/NWO, Austin, and Hogan. After all of that mega push, he is less over than he was before this reign of mediocrity began. He also has had a few of his matches hijacked by a listless crowd which he tried to remedy by spamming suicide dives. :heston

I label his failed FOTC run as the Rollins Ratings Recession. Now he isn't the sole cause of the marked decline but he is the most featured and pushed guy during that time frame. Learning that he tanks the quarter hours coupled with his vastly diminished crowd reactions demonstrates how woefully inadequate he is in the role of #1 guy. He is just a severely limited performer. 

I foresaw his failure even after he beat Brock clean: 


> *The sole reason for Brock winning mitb was to get him another career accolade and was designed as a chance to reboot seth after he failed so miserably as the champ. So Brock got another title run, seth has two universal runs now and supposedly it's a new day for seth now. I wonder what his fans will blame this time when he inevitably fails again? Bad booking? Bad opponents? heaven forbid they blame the guy doing the bad acting, bad selling, and cutting the worst promos of the year. :Cocky*


So who are you gonna blame now cultists? Those quarter hour numbers illustrate just how cold and tired of an act *he* is. How to rehab seth? His diehard fans will look to a heel turn as his salvation, but I see him coming up short. He is a lousy promo with practically no charisma or acting ability. Spamming face moves isn't going to get him over as a heel. In a perfect world, he would be a midcarder and never sniff the big titles again. Time to end the experiment and go in a different direction, WWE.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> Seth being a shit champ for 6 or 7 months has zero to do with Wyatt. Literally nothing. Corbin got separated from the geek and people on this forum are actually praising him now for Christ’s sake.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Corbin has been fun since he became pimp daddy Corbin. His days as waiter Corbin were painfully boring though.

Ever since those segments hitting on Lacey I've been enjoying him. The guy plays sleazy so well and he's been really coming into his own over the last couple of months. The less exposure has definitely helped him.

He needs to start wearing chains and fur jackets etc.


----------



## Ace

Corbin has been great the last few months. Loving the King gimmick.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on Bray, but is firehouse play segments haven't been interesting since the first month and once they started using him on TV, it's been the same shit each week. They're feeding him guys with that horrible move fpalm

Never liked it when Foley did it, don't like it now. It made sense to use something else and move away from Sister Abigail given how Bray Wyatt turned out, but couldn't they have given him something better than the Mandible Claw fpalm

The gimmick itself still has a lot of potential, he needs to start doing something new and move away from the mandible claw IMO.

Time to do some in the ring segments or in the arena and try to keep The Fiend at bay while cutting promos.


----------



## InexorableJourney

That's impressive, that's what Attitude era style booking gets you.


----------



## deadcool

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Hardly a surprise given that Rollins has the charisma of a wet puddle of water lying on a street.


----------



## rexmundi

Props to the true stars helping to give a real boost to the demo. Now th B Show must stand on its own. :Cocky


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



deadcool said:


> Hardly a surprise given that Rollins has the charisma of a wet puddle of water lying on a street.


That must be one charismatic wet puddle of water then


----------



## Punk_316

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Rollins should have never ever been put in his current spot on the card. This 2019 push has been nauseating and completely exposed him as incapable of being a top-tier, main event talent.

Superman Reigns was flat, wooden and predictable-- but at least likable. This is even worse.


----------



## ClintDagger

Man Hogan & Flair can still draw. Impressive.

Edit: Can’t forget Brock. He clearly created some buzz which shows he still draws. Doesn’t bode well that they went with a Seth title match to end the show with a tease of the Fiend and the 3rd hour dropped so much.



Mifune Jackson said:


> I think it bodes well for SmackDown with The Rock appearing on it. Obviously, not sustainable, but I think they'll get their "See? We popped a rating!" rating this week.


If SD doesn’t do well over 4MM and approaching 5MM it’s a disappointment. With that said, I think they will hit that.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Wait...so you're telling me that if you take a spot monkey with zero personality, zero ability to cut a promo, zero charisma, and ultimately nothing at all that makes him stand out and feel like a Star and try and pretend said steaming pile of monkey crap is a Star that it doesn't actually resonate with the fans. Amazing. 

For whatever reason the McMahons love charisma vacuum anti-draws.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Punk_316 said:


> Rollins should have never ever been put in his current spot on the card. This 2019 push has been nauseating and completely exposed him as incapable of being a top-tier, main event talent.
> 
> Superman Reigns was flat, wooden and predictable-- *but at least likable*. This is even worse.


:ha


----------



## Chan Hung

He simply not that interesting and probably better off in a tag team then being world champion


----------



## RubberbandGoat

2.5 m Is the best they could do? Terrible number


----------



## patpat

InexorableJourney said:


> That's impressive, that's what Attitude era style booking gets you.


 dude nothing to do with attitude era numbers 
It was advertised heavily as their premier, with a lot of new shit, set music etc. That plus a shit MNF game and its logical.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*












Looks like everyone here beat me to the punch, no more need be said to be honest. Let it be noted though I have been saying this shit since January as well.




I know there is some beta boys on this forum here that absolutely geek out to crossfit bitches like Seth "My woman is my superior," Rollins, and Im sure they adapt that to their day to day life style.

But as for the common man that for some reason still watches and has any testosterone in their body, I know they do exactly what I do, anytime that geeks music hits and he comes out with his nasally voice and cringe high pitched voice fans, they change the channel to Monday night football to see what's going on....or they look for something to watch (Live PD is actually a pretty solid alternative when it's on).




Because no normal person wants to see this bitch boy, only weak men or feminist women. This has been proven time and time again, and this forum is a direct reflection of this statement with some of the very weak so called men that I like to call Rollinites trying to defending him even when stats, general reception, and his own actions even prove what me and Brad have been saying to be true.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

As others have already said, Rollins isnt in these segments by himself (Unless they are promos), so feuding with Bray Wyatt certainly doesnt help, because "The Fiend" is just corny and laughable. And his feud before that was Baron Corbin and thing that dragged and dragged annnnnnnd dragged.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Bryan Jericho said:


> As others have already said, Rollins isnt in these segments by himself (Unless they are promos), so feuding with Bray Wyatt certainly doesnt help, because "The Fiend" is just corny and laughable. And his feud before that was Baron Corbin and thing that dragged and dragged annnnnnnd dragged.




AJ, Braun, and Brock’s fault too right? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> AJ, Braun, and Brock’s fault too right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Didn't you get the memo?

Rollins gets a free pass for everything. It's always someone else's fault.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Didn't you get the memo?
> 
> 
> 
> Rollins gets a free pass for everything. It's always someone else's fault.




Meanwhile when people got away from Seth? Corbin won KOTR and is being favored positively as an effective heel. Braun is over as hell again. Brock killing Kofi and now Rey has been received well. AJ got a US title run which hasn’t been awful. Everyone does better when they get away from him. He brings down the product quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Didn't you get the memo?
> 
> Rollins gets a free pass for everything. It's always someone else's fault.


I see that you're too daft and unaware of the memo at the moment, but apparently everything is Seth Rollins's fault now (as if he's responsible for the low ratings) :mj4



bradatar said:


> Meanwhile when people got away from Seth? Corbin won KOTR and is being favored positively as an effective heel. Braun is over as hell again. Brock killing Kofi and now Rey has been received well. AJ got a US title run which hasn’t been awful. *Everyone does better when they get away from him. He brings down the product quality.
> *
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's false as hell :lmao

AJ Styles probably had his best singles match recently against Rollins at Money in the Bank.

Brock Lesnar actually had a good singles match against Rollins at Summerslam; and that program both men had before the event was hotter than that dull feud with Baron Corbin.

Braun Strowman returned over a month ago to have a program with Rollins, and he was easily the most over he's been in about a year.

Bray Wyatt is the hottest (male) act right now in the company, and his stock hasn't fallen by feuding with Rollins (plus Wyatt SHOULD be the one winning this Sunday to continue his character's momentum, but that's more of a booking issue than it is a talent issue).

Anyway, it's pretty cute how you feel the need to pretend like everything must be Rollins's fault with these false narratives of yours :lol


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Didn't you get the memo?
> 
> Rollins gets a free pass for everything. It's always someone else's fault.



It's because the Rollins loyalists are in denial. They are the same ones that think HBK is the GOAT, despite ratings and buyrates in his runs saying otherwise.



bradatar said:


> Meanwhile when people got away from Seth? Corbin won KOTR and is being favored positively as an effective heel. Braun is over as hell again. Brock killing Kofi and now Rey has been received well. AJ got a US title run which hasn’t been awful. Everyone does better when they get away from him. He brings down the product quality.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


These are all very factual statements, eventually though they will see the error in their ways and move on to the next guy, they sort of did the same with Roman. Only a matter of time now til the cuck gets dropped as the lead of Raw, Im actually quite convinced of this. He has already led Raw to being demoted to the B show.

Another problem with all of this is it just isn't believable he can beat Brock or Strowman. His loyalists will move the goal post and say "This is wrestling anything can happen," but with this being the "reality era," they should be pushing a more realistic scenario, which isn't happening.


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Didn't you get the memo?
> 
> Rollins gets a free pass for everything. It's always someone else's fault.


Rollins has been booked like a beta cuck who gets killed in every thread.

What is Bray's excuse? They turned Seth into a snivelling little girl to get him over. They fed him Braun and what's left of Seth's manhood ffs..


----------



## ClintDagger

patpat said:


> dude nothing to do with attitude era numbers
> It was advertised heavily as their premier, with a lot of new shit, set music etc. That plus a shit MNF game and its logical.


He didn’t say attitude era numbers. He said attitude era style booking which I think means fast paced and a little on the adult end of the spectrum. I think everything you mentioned was a factor as well. Curiosity is usually a good draw.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> I see that you're too daft and unaware of the memo at the moment, but apparently everything is Seth Rollins's fault now (as if the ratings are his fault) :mj4


This is strange. 

You claim you don't care about drawing, but here you are again, going out of your way to argue that Rollins is not responsible for not drawing on TV. 

I also notice you are yet to answer my questions: Do you think Rollins would be a mega draw if he was booked as you wished? And why does Rollins mean so much to you?



kingnoth1n said:


> It's because the Rollins loyalists are in denial. They are the same ones that think HBK is the GOAT, despite ratings and buyrates in his runs saying otherwise..


HBK was a fantastic performer. Far superior to Rollins in every department. 

But yes, he was never a major drawing card or FOTC material. He could be the guy who works with the main guy, but not the main guy itself.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> This is strange.
> 
> You claim you don't care about drawing, but here you are again, going out of your way to argue that Rollins is not responsible for not drawing on TV.
> 
> I also notice you are yet to answer my questions: Do you think Rollins would be a mega draw if he was booked as you wished? And why does Rollins mean so much to you?


It's weird how you're still obsessing about drawing ability yet again while also failing to make a decent comment without posting about that topic :hmmm


----------



## Ace

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> This is strange.
> 
> You claim you don't care about drawing, but here you are again, going out of your way to argue that Rollins is not responsible for not drawing on TV.
> 
> I also notice you are yet to answer my questions: Do you think Rollins would be a mega draw if he was booked as you wished? And why does Rollins mean so much to you?


 What has Bray done with Braun, Mick Foley, Kane and the manhood of the man who beat Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns?


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> It's weird how you're still obsessing about drawing ability yet again while also failing to make a decent comment without posting about that topic :hmmm


Deflecting? Check

Defensive? Check

All that is missing is the Michael Jordan picture.


----------



## Ed Bottiglieri

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

pathetic


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Ace said:


> What has Bray done with Braun, Mick Foley, Kane and the manhood of the man who beat Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns?


I've never said that Bray is a draw. 

I think WWE should continue to push the Fiend because it's something new. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, Bray will possibly have to take some of the blame.


----------



## ClintDagger

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Seth has failed as top guy (as has everyone in recent years) but I don’t buy that he has less interest than the also rans on the roster or that he’s an anti-draw. It’s just the math working against him. Becky was proven to be an anti-draw post RR when they had her all over the show and a major tune out trend could be identified. I think the audience is neutral on Seth. They aren’t staying around until 11p to see him but they aren’t flipping the channel once they see him either.


----------



## Ed Bottiglieri

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

same old sh!t


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Deflecting? Check
> 
> Defensive? Check
> 
> All that is missing is the Michael Jordan picture.


Hopelessly addicted to WWE's ratings/finances? Check.

Is seething hard over Rollins existing? Check.

Honestly, all that's missing now is you telling me to "go back to my shrine"


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Hopelessly addicted to WWE's ratings/finances? Check.
> 
> Is seething hard over Rollins existing? Check.
> 
> Honestly, all that's missing now is you telling me to "go back to my shrine"


1) You are posting in a thread about ratings.

2) No seething here. I'm perfectly calm.

Now that is out of the way, why not answer my questions. Or are you in this thread just to complain about the OP and anyone else who dares to dislike Rollins?


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Hopelessly addicted to WWE's ratings/finances? Check.
> 
> Is seething hard over Rollins existing? Check.
> 
> Honestly, all that's missing now is you telling me to "go back to my shrine"


Yeah, it's a real shame that some of us want to see pro wrestling a ratings success again, with larger than life characters on top again; as opposed to wrestling being in the shitter ratings wise, catering to neckbearded indy workrate marks with a whiny, crossfit geek champ that that group of fans feel they relate to, but again keep deflecting.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah, it's a real shame that some of us want to see pro wrestling a ratings success again, with larger than life characters on top again; as opposed to wrestling being in the shitter ratings wise, catering to neckbearded indy workrate marks with a whiny, crossfit geek champ that that group of fans feel they relate to, but again keep deflecting.


Hey, it's pretty cute to see you blindly believe that the individual talents are somehow to blame for the low ratings and that one wrestler is going to save the viewership as long as Vince continues to write mediocre/underwhelming shows; not to mention the fact that you're so bitter over the fact that a decent portion of the fanbase actually appreciates the wrestling aspect that you're now resorting to insulting their physical appearances (as if you're above them in any form), but hey, you can keep projecting your pettiness on to others.


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Hey, it's pretty cute to see you blindly believe that the individual talents are somehow to blame for the low ratings and that one wrestler is going to save the viewership as long as Vince continues to write mediocre/underwhelming shows; not to mention the fact that you're so bitter over the fact that a decent portion of the fanbase actually appreciates the wrestling aspect that you're now resorting to insulting their physical appearances (as if you're above them in any form), but hey, you can keep projecting your pettiness on to others.


Few have said that it's just down to the talent. It's a combination of factors, including booking, presentation, and yes, the talent. 

Was it wise to book Rollins in the same segment as Hogan and Flair? You are just asking for your FOTC to be shown up. Rollins just doesn't have the same presence as the legends.


----------



## Mordecay

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Let's see, just in the past 3 months Seth got:

The DX rub
The Lesnar rub
The Austin rub 
The Strowman rub
And now the Hogan rub

And most of the time he felt out of place and not deserving of that. Like yesterday, when he was sharing the ring with Flair, Hogan and even Orton, they felt like stars, he didn't, he was like that kid trying to be cool so the cool kids like him and I think that's the reason why he is not connectiong, he just simply is not that cool/charismatic to be the face of the company.


----------



## domotime2

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> They are reporting the lowest rated quarter-hour segments over the last month have all been Seth Rollins' segments.
> 
> This suggests segments such as Mike and Maria Kannellis and the cuck angle, Ricochet talking, Lacey Evans v Natalya matches, and the Vikings are being watched more than Seth Rollins.
> 
> 
> :O:O:O:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4:rollins4


can you link me to these numbers/information?


----------



## kingnoth1n

DammitC said:


> Hey, it's pretty cute to see you blindly believe that the individual talents are somehow to blame for the low ratings and that one wrestler is going to save the viewership as long as Vince continues to write mediocre/underwhelming shows; not to mention the fact that you're so bitter over the fact that a decent portion of the fanbase actually appreciates the wrestling aspect that you're now resorting to insulting their physical appearances (as if you're above them in any form), but hey, you can keep projecting your pettiness on to others.



You make this too easy.


The fact that you didn't dismiss what I said about the audience that enjoys Seth's work shows me where your loyalties lie with said audience. Saying it's cute too is also questionable at best boy, :brock2




I don't "blindly believe," as Brad pointed out and as you blindly deflect, there is plenty of sources that back up what is being said. Numerous unbiased sources vs innuendo by an extremely biased source will always win any argument. I learned that at the school I went to, sorry they didn't teach you that at the alternative school you graduated from recently.

Yeah the fanbase that is left, that isn't saying much either, because the majority of the audience has left because they recognize that there are geeks that are champs that they are not interested in at all. So you aren't overly reaching for anything impressive here.


Speaking of anything impressive, can you tell me anything Rollins has done that is impressive in his solo run, when it comes to overall drawing or a major impact on the Raw brand? He is certainly not going to be leading the A show come Friday, so enlighten me and the forum we are all ears. 

*Spoiler: You can't. You have nothing but deflections leaning towards attacking a poster that opposes ur boy.*


Vince, Bray, Braun, this fanbase continues to move the goal post, but they think this is ok:








Mordecay said:


> Let's see, just in the past 3 months Seth got:
> 
> The DX rub
> The Lesnar rub
> The Austin rub
> The Strowman rub
> And now the Hogan rub
> 
> And most of the time he felt out of place and not deserving of that. Like yesterday, when he was sharing the ring with Flair, Hogan and even Orton, they felt like stars, he didn't, he was like that kid trying to be cool so the cool kids like him and I think that's the reason why he is not connectiong, he just simply is not that cool/charismatic to be the face of the company.


Lesnar rub was the worst man actually, with this being the "Reality era," and him being booked injured, he just isn't believable to be able to beat Lesnar.

Its because he sucks.

Someone like Strowman to be honest, could have been booked like that. A high testosterone animal that could legit overcome the odds with his sheer strength, similar somewhat to Hogan or Warrior.

Why they don't go this route I do not know...what's worse they had Strowman lose to that geek...again extremely unrealistic, in the Reality/kill kayfabe era.


----------



## Magicman38

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Seth Rollins has value. Just not as a Babyface. He’s a much better heel. They’d be better off doing a double-turn with him and the Fiend.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Magicman38 said:


> Seth Rollins has value. Just not as a Babyface. He’s a much better heel. They’d be better off doing a double-turn with him and the Fiend.


Nah, not with The Fiend. He needs to stay heel for a long time.

Have Seth lose at HIAC, then he tries to get his title back by taking a questionable root, fails, then has a match with... Rey and mess with Dominick (not beat him up like Brock did, cause that's Brock) and wins that by full-on cheating at the end.

A random turn does nothing. Telling a story gets people invested into Seth and more into Rey/Dominick storyline.


----------



## Brodus Clay

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Mordecay said:


> Let's see, just in the past 3 months Seth got:
> 
> The DX rub
> The Lesnar rub
> The Austin rub
> The Strowman rub
> And now the Hogan rub
> 
> And most of the time he felt out of place and not deserving of that. Like yesterday, when he was sharing the ring with Flair, Hogan and even Orton, they felt like stars, he didn't, he was like that kid trying to be cool so the cool kids like him and I think that's the reason why he is not connectiong, he just simply is not that cool/charismatic to be the face of the company.


Add Bret Hart rub.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Rollins is a draw!!!


----------



## RainmakerV2

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Its gonna get worse with Drew probably coming back to be the next challenger for Seth. Dude was in the feature before the show like 3 times.


----------



## The Wood

Rollins flopped as a top heel and he’s flopped as a top babyface. Maybe he’s just not a top guy?


----------



## volde

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



kingnoth1n said:


> Lesnar rub was the worst man actually, with this being the "Reality era," and him being booked injured, he just isn't believable to be able to beat Lesnar.
> 
> Its because he sucks.
> 
> Someone like Strowman to be honest, could have been booked like that. A high testosterone animal that could legit overcome the odds with his sheer strength, similar somewhat to Hogan or Warrior.
> 
> Why they don't go this route I do not know...what's worse they had Strowman lose to that geek...*again extremely unrealistic, in the Reality/kill kayfabe era.*


I'm not sure what reality/kill kayfabe era has even to do with it. I mean, take any era and I think it would make more sense to push Lesnar and Strowman instead of Seth.

Seth is simply not a top guy material.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

oh darn. and he will still go over bray, i bet.


----------



## The Wood

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*

Seth didn't really gel in the main event spot in ROH either, did he?


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> AJ, Braun, and Brock’s fault too right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I always wonder if when people say "its everyone else's fault" if they realise how ridiculous it is. If Rollins is a common denominator in things sucking, blaming everyone but him is absurd. You cant just blame everyone else but Rollins, but it seems like there's still a crazy amount of people who believe this and give him a free pass for everything.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I always wonder if when people say "its everyone else's fault" if they realise how ridiculous it is. If Rollins is a common denominator in things sucking, blaming everyone but him is absurd. You cant just blame everyone else but Rollins, but it seems like there's still a crazy amount of people who believe this and give him a free pass for everything.


They've been exposed in this thread. I don't really have too much to add.


----------



## llj

2.5 isn't a good number folks. Especially with the NFL game being a blowout and it generally being the average RAW rating of the past 2 months.

They needed to get some 3s this week and they didn't. Smackdown MUST do better than 3M or they are fucked.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> AJ, Braun, and Brock’s fault too right? [emoji106]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd blame anyone who's in the segment if the segment was bad. It's just common sense. I'm not giving Seth a pass, I'm not even a Rollins fan, but as I said, it's just common sense. :shrug


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Bryan Jericho said:


> I'd blame anyone who's in the segment if the segment was bad. It's just common sense. I'm not giving Seth a pass, I'm not even a Rollins fan, but as I said, it's just common sense. :shrug


Not really. The only common denominator between the segments and 5 different other wrestlers is Seth Rollins. But ok.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> Not really. The only common denominator between the segments and 5 different other wrestlers is Seth Rollins. But ok.


Wait so if Seth and The Rock have a segment on SD and it has HUGE ratings....then its all Seth? Apparently so with your logic. My logic is..its both of them. (Obviously more Rock than Seth, but still its both of them). But ok you have a great day.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Bryan Jericho said:


> Wait so if Seth and The Rock have a segment on SD and it has HUGE ratings....then its all Seth? Apparently so with your logic. My logic is..its both of them. (Obviously more Rock than Seth, but still its both of them). But ok you have a great day.


What the hell are you even talking about lol? Braun/AJ/Brock/Corbin/Bray segments do just fine when they're not stuck with that geek. Numbers statistically prove that. Your comparison literally makes no sense in this setting. I guess the Hogan/Flair segment was the highest rated segment this week because Seth came and gave a shitty promo and flexed? Right. This is DC levels of deflection and delusion.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> What the hell are you even talking about lol? Braun/AJ/Brock/Corbin/Bray segments do just fine when they're not stuck with that geek. Numbers statistically prove that. Your comparison literally makes no sense in this setting. I guess the Hogan/Flair segment was the highest rated segment this week because Seth came and gave a shitty promo and flexed? Right. This is DC levels of deflection and delusion.


Not deflecting anything, as I said Im not a Seth fan. But if you wanna put all the blame on the champion when he's in a segment if it does badly, but won't give him any credit in a segment that goes good, then it makes no sense. Like I said if he was with The Rock in ring and it did huge numbers, you'd say "Well that was all Rock obviously". Yet if the segment did shitty you'd say "Seth totally ruined that and thats why it sucked". Its not hard to understand, you have a double standard and thats fine, most of us have known this for a long time. But again, you have a tremendous day.


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Bryan Jericho said:


> Not deflecting anything, as I said Im not a Seth fan. But if you wanna put all the blame on the champion when he's in a segment if it does badly, but won't give him any credit in a segment that goes good, then it makes no sense. Like I said if he was with The Rock in ring and it did huge numbers, you'd say "Well that was all Rock obviously". Yet if the segment did shitty you'd say "Seth totally ruined that and thats why it sucked". Its not hard to understand, you have a double standard and thats fine, most of us have known this for a long time. But again, you have a tremendous day.



Lol, again..what? He hasn't had a segment that has done good the past month. All of his segments have been the lowest rated segments. The other 5 have done fine when not stuck with him. That's why I made my initial thread. There is no double standard here. Get it now? There is no Rock segment. I'm using things that actually happened and not hypothetical situations. You're as bad at making a logical point as DC. Cheers!


----------



## shadows123

llj said:


> 2.5 isn't a good number folks. Especially with the NFL game being a blowout and it generally being the average RAW rating of the past 2 months.
> 
> They needed to get some 3s this week and they didn't. Smackdown MUST do better than 3M or they are fucked.


Well theoretically they should right and i think they will.. Dwayne Johnson is there, Brock is there etc so less of the so called "geeks" and Trips favourite word these days "workhorses" who seem to suck the lives of the product these days by being excellent at wrestling and producing 5 star matches but extemely boring otherwise ...


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



Bryan Jericho said:


> Not deflecting anything, as I said Im not a Seth fan. But if you wanna put all the blame on the champion when he's in a segment if it does badly, but won't give him any credit in a segment that goes good, then it makes no sense. Like I said if he was with The Rock in ring and it did huge numbers, you'd say "Well that was all Rock obviously". Yet if the segment did shitty you'd say "Seth totally ruined that and thats why it sucked". Its not hard to understand, you have a double standard and thats fine, most of us have known this for a long time. But again, you have a tremendous day.


You're replying to a delusional clown who believes that Seth Rollins himself is somehow responsible for the declining ratings, and that every low-rated segment is all of his fault. He's terrible at being objective, and his points for the ratings topics are usually asinine. You're better off talking to a wall at this point.

Edit: I just LOVE how he's giving you shit now simply because you dare to not say anything negative about Rollins here :lol


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> You're replying to a delusional clown who believes that Seth Rollins himself is somehow responsible for the declining ratings, and that every low-rated segment is all of his fault. He's terrible at being objective, and his points for the ratings topics are usually asinine. You're better off talking to a wall at this point.


Coming from the guy who has been proven a hypocrite and avoided questions in this thread the last two days. Alrighty sport! How am I not being objective??? HE is in EVERY. SINGLE. LOWEST. VIEWED. SEGMENT. There's literally no more factual evidence that can be provided for Christ's sake. I feel like I'm talking to a fucking wall, when reality is I'm dealing with two of the worst posters on here. 

Side note: How is him calling me a clown any different then me calling someone an idiot? Let's enforce the rules fairly mods, shall we?

Side side note: The amount of rep I'm getting for you making a fool of yourself is glorious to say the least.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> He's terrible at being objective


Do you consider yourself objective on the subject of Seth Rollins?



Bryan Jericho said:


> Not deflecting anything, as I said Im not a Seth fan. But if you wanna put all the blame on the champion when he's in a segment if it does badly, but won't give him any credit in a segment that goes good, then it makes no sense. Like I said if he was with The Rock in ring and it did huge numbers, you'd say "Well that was all Rock obviously". Yet if the segment did shitty you'd say "Seth totally ruined that and thats why it sucked". Its not hard to understand, you have a double standard and thats fine, most of us have known this for a long time. But again, you have a tremendous day.


Rollins has never drawn on his own merit. He's always had to rely on Cena, Lesnar and others to draw house show and PPVs that he has been on. On his own, he has always failed. 

That doesn't excuse those who have worked with Rollins and not drawn. Styles deserves some of the blame for their programming tanking viewership earlier in the year. It was the main programme on the show and drew record lows. 

But again, while other performers and the bookers are also to blame, so is Rollins. Yet many think he should be free from criticism.


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> Coming from the guy who has been proven a hypocrite and avoided questions in this thread the last two days. Alrighty sport! How am I not being objective??? HE is in EVERY. SINGLE. LOWEST. VIEWED. SEGMENT. There's literally no more factual evidence that can be provided for Christ's sake. I feel like I'm talking to a fucking wall, when reality is I'm dealing with two of the worst posters on here.


It was specifically mentioned that the segments in the 3rd hour consistently get the lowest views because they're generally way too late in the show, and folks aren't going to continue tuning in if a Raw episode is stale or mediocre. You clearly misinterpreted that "factual" evidence of your by conveniently leaving that part out :lol

Anyway, you ARE the fucking brick wall here. It's actually worse in this case since you're clearly the worst poster on here who continues to make a fool out of himself with your petty hatred :mj4



> Side note: How is him calling me a clown any different then me calling someone an idiot? Let's enforce the rules fairly mods, shall we?


I like how you're ignoring the fact that you blatantly mentioned my name twice on the previous page (before I even made my 1st post) talking some shit, and now you're here complaining about the enforcement of the rules. Thanks for confirming that you're a hypocrite too :mj



> Side side note: The amount of rep I'm getting for you making a fool of yourself is glorious to say the least.


Are you seriously bragging about your reps on an internet forum? :kobe :lmao



raymond1985 said:


> Do you consider yourself objective on the subject of Seth Rollins?


Considering how I still haven't blamed any individual talent for the low viewership (including wrestlers that I'm indifferent to and dislike), yes, I am more objective than he is on the ratings topic (even though I'm clearly reside on a different side here).


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> It was specifically mentioned that the segments in the 3rd hour consistently get the lowest views because they're generally way too late in the show, and folks aren't going to continue tuning in if a Raw episode is stale or mediocre. You clearly misinterpreted that "factual" evidence of your by conveniently leaving that part out :lol
> 
> Anyway, you ARE the fucking brick wall here. It's actually worse in this case since you're clearly the worst poster on here who continues to make a fool out of himself with your petty hatred :mj4
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously bragging about your reps on an internet forum? :kobe :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how I still haven't blamed any individual talent for the low viewership (including wrestlers that I'm indifferent to and dislike), yes, I am more objective than he is on the ratings topic (even though I'm clearly reside on a different side here).




Yes, I am bragging about the amount of DMs I’m getting laughing at you and the rep I’m receiving. It’s satisfying to know others see how pathetic you are too. People tune in for main events they care about genius. It falls on the FOTC to make people care. He has failed. But that won’t fit your narrative here so let’s not talk about that. You’re boring with your “I know you are but what am I” retorts too. Do better 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



bradatar said:


> Yes, I am bragging about the amount of DMs I’m getting laughing at you and the rep I’m receiving. It’s satisfying to know others see how pathetic you are too.


Oh, so you really are bragging about reps on an internet forum :lmao

Honestly, you're truly the pathetic one here. Imagine endlessly complaining/posting about wrestlers you dislike on a daily basis because you're seething over the fact that they're featured or getting pushed. You don't see me doing this same shit with Baron Corbin and Lacey Evans frequently each day.

For the record, I know that you're an awful poster because you get laughed at on Discord chat frequently (which has at least 110 people from here) whenever your name gets brought up; so take that as you will 




> People tune in for main events they care about genius.


People tune in to see GOOD shows, which is something Vince continues to struggle booking/writing every week. Unless something BIG is being advertised at the end of the show (which is rare), they're less likely to stay for the main-events if the quality of the shows is mediocre. It's the reason why the 3rd hour is historically known to do poorly compared to the first 2 hours (mostly) for the past year.



> It falls on the FOTC to make people care. He has failed. But that won’t fit your narrative here so let’s not talk about that.


He's not even the FOTC now, so that already makes your silly narrative moot :mj4



> You’re boring with your “I know you are but what am I” retorts too.


Yet you're awful at actually making good points too.



> Do better


Oh, I always do


----------



## bradatar

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> Oh, so you really are bragging about reps on an internet forum :lmao
> 
> Honestly, you're truly the pathetic one here. Imagine endlessly complaining/posting about wrestlers you dislike on a daily basis because you're seething over the fact that they're featured or getting pushed. You don't see me doing this same shit with Baron Corbin and Lacey Evans frequently each day.
> 
> For the record, I know that you're an awful poster because you get laughed at on Discord chat frequently (which has at least 110 people from here) whenever your name gets brought up; so take that as you will
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People tune in to see GOOD shows, which is something Vince continues to struggle booking/writing every week. Unless something BIG is being advertised at the end of the show (which is rare), they're less likely to stay for the main-events if the quality of the shows is mediocre. It's the reason why the 3rd hour is historically known to do poorly compared to the first 2 hours (mostly) for the past year.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not even the FOTC now, so that already makes your silly narrative moot :mj4
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you're awful at actually making good points too.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I always do




Lol you talk about me on a discord server that’s precious. Credit given where credit is due here. At least you’ll fess up to talking your shit rather then these apparent other 110 people. I am flattered my name is brought up outside these forum though. I’m blushing!

So you say “unless something is a planned big for the end of show which is rare” while also acknowledging Seth is at the end of show. So Seth is rarely involved in anything big? You talk the last year. Who was the champion for this third hour the past year? You’re helping my points guy.

If he’s not the FOTC then I’m not sure how one can be booked. His booking is Cena levels and better then Roman ever got. 

My points remain valid. Tell discord I said hello. [emoji3590]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ray-Pest

*Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*



> 1998-4.35
> 1999-5.90
> 2000-5.88 (Raw switches to TNN in September)
> 2001-4.64
> 2002-4.01 (Brand split + Austin and The Rock are no longer full time wrestlers)
> 2003-3.76 (Peak of the Reign of Terror)
> 2004-3.67
> 2005-3.81 (John Cena moves to Raw)
> 2006-3.90
> 2007-3.61 (Chris Benoit double murder-suicide)
> 2008-3.27 (WWE goes PG)
> 2009-3.57 (Orton-Cena rivalry + Celebrity guests appearances)
> 2010-3.28
> 2011-3.21 (CM Punk rise to stardom)
> 2012-3.00 (CM Punk's year)
> 2013-3.01 (Brand split officialy ends)
> 2014-2.95
> 2015-2.64 (Roman Reigns is the chosen on by Vince)
> 2016-2.26 (Brand split comes back)
> 2017-2.08
> 2018-2.82 million viewers (ratings are below 2)
> 2019 so far-2.49 million viewers
> Note: To put it into perspective, Raw was averaging 4.1 million viewers just in 2014.


What are you thoughts? is there anything that surprises you?


----------



## Chelsea

*Re: Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*

That 2017 though :lol


----------



## Cataclysm

*Re: Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*

It's only natural that TV ratings drop overtime. The way people consume media has changed significantly. That being said 2017 still looks like a pretty big abrasion.


----------



## raymond1985

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



DammitC said:


> People tune in to see GOOD shows, which is something Vince continues to struggle booking/writing every week. Unless something BIG is being advertised at the end of the show (which is rare), they're less likely to stay for the main-events if the quality of the shows is mediocre. It's the reason why the 3rd hour is historically known to do poorly compared to the first 2 hours (mostly) for the past year.


People tune in for stars. It's the same in other forms of entertainment. The NBA playoff's ratings declined this year because LeBron was not involved. WWE's ratings saw record year on year drop offs this year because it was the weakest roster in terms of stars in recent memory. 

The 3rd hour excuse does not wash in recent weeks. Rollins should at least outdraw other segments that take place in the 3rd hour. The burnout at 2 hours into the show is not much different compared to the burnout at 2 and a half hours. 

Even when RAW was 3 hours in 2013, the stars were able to produce quarter by quarter viewership gains. WWE has no stars who can do that these days. Partially because of the booking, but also because the talent is not up to scratch. Rollins is not FOTC the material. 

Again, I shall ask you. Do you honestly think Rollins would be a draw if he was booked as you would like?


----------



## thegockster

*Re: Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*

Funnily enough going on from the other thread it went downhill after Russo & Ed left


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That was a really entertaining show, some parts dragged but that wasn't often, 7-8/10 in my opinion.


----------



## Bennu

*Re: Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*



Ray-Pest said:


> What are you thoughts? is there anything that surprises you?


Seems that the Beniot murder suicide hurt WWE's viewership a lot, also maybe the brand split and having 2 world titles may have been a bad idea in the long run.


----------



## squarebox

What's interesting to me is the people still defending Rollins are the same people who were shitting on Roman Reigns week after week when he was heavily featured on the show a couple of years ago. Just face it, your guy isn't beyond criticism, just like Reigns wasn't at the time.


----------



## RainmakerV2

squarebox said:


> What's interesting to me is the people still defending Rollins are the same people who were shitting on Roman Reigns week after week when he was heavily featured on the show a couple of years ago. Just face it, your guy isn't beyond criticism, just like Reigns wasn't at the time.


Rollins is from ROH and has hella "workrate " bro. Can't be his fault. Keep up.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Rollins is from ROH and has hella "workrate " bro. Can't be his fault. Keep up.


Sure, everything has to be on 1 talent's "fault" :lol

Edit: 
@bradatar ; still trying to think that I was “proven wrong” :mj4


----------



## MontyCora

squarebox said:


> What's interesting to me is the people still defending Rollins are the same people who were shitting on Roman Reigns week after week when he was heavily featured on the show a couple of years ago. Just face it, your guy isn't beyond criticism, just like Reigns wasn't at the time.


Brotha my guy just DDT'd Kenny Omega through a fucking glass coffee table. 

It was awesome.


----------



## bradatar

raymond1985 said:


> People tune in for stars. It's the same in other forms of entertainment. The NBA playoff's ratings declined this year because LeBron was not involved. WWE's ratings saw record year on year drop offs this year because it was the weakest roster in terms of stars in recent memory.
> 
> The 3rd hour excuse does not wash in recent weeks. Rollins should at least outdraw other segments that take place in the 3rd hour. The burnout at 2 hours into the show is not much different compared to the burnout at 2 and a half hours.
> 
> Even when RAW was 3 hours in 2013, the stars were able to produce quarter by quarter viewership gains. WWE has no stars who can do that these days. Partially because of the booking, but also because the talent is not up to scratch. Rollins is not FOTC the material.
> 
> Again, I shall ask you. Do you honestly think Rollins would be a draw if he was booked as you would like?


You really think you were gonna get an answer? The boy stops answering once he's proven wrong. This is how it works brotha. 




RainmakerV2 said:


> Rollins is from ROH and has hella "workrate " bro. Can't be his fault. Keep up.


KICKZ, FLIPZ, WORKRATE BRUH.


----------



## raymond1985

Hogan and Flair's segment gained over 500k viewers quarter by quarter. The first time anyone has done that in months.


----------



## raymond1985

bradatar said:


> You really think you were gonna get an answer? The boy stops answering once he's proven wrong. This is how it works brotha.


He just copies stuff he's read others say. "It's all the booking team's fault", "Size doesn't matter", "Push the cruisers", etc.

Because he just copies off others, he can only argue based on the snippets he's read. That's why he ducks out when the argument evolves.

Because he copies off a group of smarks, he'll also contradict himself. He'll say drawing doesn't matter, a line he's copied from one smark, but then copy arguments from others to excuse why his beloved Rollins isn't drawing. If you don't care about drawing, why bother debating it?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

*Re: WON: Lowest rated quarter hours last month*



raymond1985 said:


> Late 2013 was nothing special either. The viewership throughout the summer and some of the autumn of 2014 was better than the same points in 2013.
> 
> The Orton vs Bryan, and Orton vs Big Show feuds flopped. So much so that they rushed Cena back for the December PPV.
> 
> Still, the common theme back then was that when they booked a proper star on the show, the viewership increased quarter by quarter.
> 
> Do you believe that Rollins would be a major draw if booked properly?


Cena was back in October and beat Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Title. One-armed Cena the following night BURIED Sandow for good.

Did anyone really think that the hottest babyface in Bryan at the time constantly getting screwed out of the title and shelved to do a Steph and HHH emasculate Big Show was going to draw with the fans? They wanted Bryan in the midcard even by his own admission he was supposed to feud with Sheamus at WM 30. 

Now I am not disagreeing about Rollins not drawing in the eyeballs. He doesn't there is just something missing. I always thought Ambrose was the star in The Shield and WWE agreed with me until a certain point. I mean he won the singles title (US) while Rollins and Reigns won the tag titles. The fact that they booked him by far the weakest of the other two still baffles me to this day.


----------



## DOTL

*Re: Raw yearly average TV rating since 1998*



Bennu said:


> Seems that the Beniot murder suicide hurt WWE's viewership a lot, also maybe the brand split and having 2 world titles may have been a bad idea in the long run.


More like WWE's reaction to the Benoit murder suicide. 

Plus WWE just isn't good.


----------



## raymond1985

Benoit turned a lot of fans off when he was champion in 2004 with his "charisma". 

Benoit turned even more fans off in 2007 with his horrendous crimes.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chris Benoit does have charisma. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get himself over throughout his career, and he wouldn't have connected with the crowds by receiving cheers/pops from them.


----------



## raymond1985

​


DammitC said:


> Chris Benoit does have charisma. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get himself over throughout his career, and he wouldn't have connected with the crowds by receiving cheers/pops from them.


He wasn't charismatic enough to headline though. His numbers were terrible as champion. Bruce Prichard said recently that his numbers as champion were worse than those who came before and after him. The WWE, as they are now with Rollins, were just throwing stuff against the wall in the hope that it stuck. 

Benoit was "charismatic" enough to appeal to be a decent upper mid-carder. He was out of his depth as a headliner.


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> ​
> He wasn't charismatic enough to headline though. His numbers were terrible as champion. Bruce Prichard said recently that his numbers as champion were worse than those who came before and after him. The WWE, as they are now with Rollins, were just throwing stuff against the wall in the hope that it stuck.
> 
> Benoit was "charismatic" enough to appeal to be a decent upper mid-carder. He was out of his depth as a headliner.


Once again you're confusing charisma with "drawing ability" :done

Charisma is having the ability to get a favorable reaction from other individuals, and being able to appeal to them due to your charm. 

That describes Benoit perfectly since he was able to get himself over with multiple crowds, and get those people to react to him back in his time.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Once again you're confusing charisma with "drawing ability" :done
> 
> *Charisma is having the ability to get a favorable reaction from other individuals, and being able to appeal to them due to your charm. *
> 
> That describes Benoit perfectly since he was able to get himself over with multiple crowds, and get those people to react to him back in his time.


Drawing is based on appealing to as many people as possible due to your charm, showmanship and other factors. So it's the same thing. 

Benoit's "charisma" was thus very limited. He was over. But many more were more over with the general audience.


----------



## Bennu

I don't mind Rollins to be honest BUT there's a reason why WWE are pushing his girlfriend is as a bigger draw than he is.


----------



## The XL 2

Chris Benoit is easily the most believable smaller guy there has ever been in pro wrestling. Wrestling is a work with height and weight, he was 5'8 and maybe 200lbs, but he was strong as fuck, built like a shit brick house, had incredible amounts of intensity, had a very intimidating look, and had very believable offense and psychology. I saw him dominate and beat Sid Vicious at Souled Out 2000 and it didn't feel hokey, it felt believable despite Sid being a foot taller and 100lbs heavier. The problem with him as world champ wasn't his look or that he wasn't credible or believable enough, it's that he didn't have the necessary charisma or ability to speak to be world champ


----------



## bradatar

Benoit’s issue was always charisma and mic work. Not sure why he’s involved here but he got over by being one of the best at the time in the ring with a menacing look. Benoit didn’t connect with charisma. He connected because he sold like a boss, was an amazing wrestler, and told a story. Once again a geek in this thread doesn’t know what they’re talking about. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> Benoit’s issue was always charisma and mic work. Not sure why he’s involved here but he got over by being one of the best at the time in the ring with a menacing look. Benoit didn’t connect with charisma. He connected because he sold like a boss, was an amazing wrestler, and told a story. *Once again a geek in this thread doesn’t know what they’re talking about. *
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea, that geek is clearly you who doesn't understand what he's talking about because a wrestler can't connect with crowds (consistently) if they don't possess some charisma :lol

Alberto Del Rio is a good example of someone who's struggled to connect with crowds. He's a great wrestler, but he usually came out to crickets throughout his career in WWE since he didn't have much charisma.

On the other hand, Chris Benoit was able to get himself over with fans because of his incredible wrestling ability ALONG with his charisma.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Yea, that geek is clearly you who doesn't understand what he's talking about because a wrestler can't connect with crowds (consistently) if they don't possess some charisma :lol


Brad is actually right.

Benoit got over due to his wrestling and menacing look. He did somewhat look like a bad ass. He was over as an upper mid-carder and occasional main-eventer. He was just not a headliner. He didn't have the mic skills, well-rounded character, etc to be the FOTC or a regular main eventer. 

Pushing him above his natural level was to a detriment of business. Do you understand this?


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> Yea, that geek is clearly you who doesn't understand what he's talking about because a wrestler can't connect with crowds (consistently) if they don't possess some charisma :lol
> 
> Alberto Del Rio is a good example of someone who's struggled to connect with crowds. He's a great wrestler, but he usually came out to crickets throughout his career in WWE since he didn't have much charisma.
> 
> On the other hand, Chris Benoit was able to get himself over with fans because of his incredible wrestling ability ALONG with his charisma.




Didn’t I tell you the “I know you are but what am I” lines are boring? Cmon kid keep up. Del Rio is a clown lol. Let me give you a recent example geek. Look at Gable vs Corbin. Gable did some great wrestling and looked legit and got over for a night. That dudes awful. You seriously are clueless to this business. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> Didn’t I tell you the “I know you are but what am I” lines are boring? Cmon kid keep up. Del Rio is a clown lol. Let me give you a recent example geek. Look at Gable vs Corbin. Gable did some great wrestling and looked legit and got over for a night. *That dudes awful. You seriously are clueless to this business.
> *
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Says the clueless one who thinks Chad Gable is "awful" :lmao :lmao

Sure, I "believe" you. That totally convinced me that Gable isn't talented unk2


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> Says the clueless one who thinks Chad Gable is "awful" :lmao :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I "believe" you. That totally convinced me that Gable isn't talented unk2




Gable is geek like Seth Rollins. Makes sense you’d have a soft side. How about answering rays question you’ve been avoiding? You’re hysterical that you avoid 80% of posts directed at you and answer where you think you can be a smart ass. Stay in discord bud. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> Gable is geek like Seth Rollins.


Honestly, you pretty much sound like the big geek here tbh :shrug



> Makes sense you’d have a soft side. How about answering rays question you’ve been avoiding?
> 
> You’re hysterical that you avoid 80% of posts directed at you and answer where you think you can be a smart ass.


Maybe if he'd stop asking me stupid questions (and spamming/repeating them too when I've already answered them at least once), I'd actually answer him back with serious responses more often.



> Stay in discord bud.


Nah, I think I'll stay here too; but thanks for reminding me how pleasant the community is on Discord without having the likes of you around :banderas



raymond1985 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> *When I have asked you how big of a draw Rollins would be if he was booked to perfection, you have chosen not to respond or dodged answering. *
> 
> You are way too defensive.


I have no interest in answering that question because as a fan of his, I do NOT give a fuck about him (or any other favorite) becoming a big draw or not. I just want to be entertained by watching wrestlers show off their talent on TV. I still believe that fans shouldn't even care about drawing ability to begin with because that quality is something that employees within the company should be concerned about instead of us folks; so pardon me if I find this redundant topic to be very obnoxious whenever it gets brought up about ANY wrestler in general.

Edit:

Baron Corbin being an "amazing" heel :ha


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Maybe if he'd stop asking me stupid questions (and spamming/repeating them too when I've already answered them at least once), I'd actually answer him back with serious responses more often.


Wrong.

When I have asked you how big of a draw Rollins would be if he was booked to perfection, you have chosen not to respond or dodged answering. 

You are way too defensive.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> I have no interest in answering that question because as a fan of his, I do NOT give a fuck about him (or any other favorite) becoming a big draw or not. I just want to be entertained by watching wrestlers show their talent on TV. I still believe that fans shouldn't even care about drawing ability to begin with because that quality is something that employees within the company should be concerned about instead of us; so pardon me if I find this redundant topic to be very obnoxious whenever it gets brought up about ANYONE in general.


Then why are you posting in threads that relate to drawing? And why are you always going out of your way to argue that Rollins isn't an anti-draw? The title of this very thread reads "draw talk here". 

It's okay to admit that you are wrong.


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> Honestly, you pretty much sound like the big geek here tbh :shrug
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he'd stop asking me stupid questions (and spamming/repeating them too when I've already answered them at least once), I'd actually answer him back with serious responses more often.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I think I'll stay here too; but thanks for reminding me how pleasant the community is on Discord without having the likes of you around :banderas
> 
> 
> 
> I have no interest in answering that question because as a fan of his, I do NOT give a fuck about him (or any other favorite) becoming a big draw or not. I just want to be entertained by watching wrestlers show off their talent on TV. I still believe that fans shouldn't even care about drawing ability to begin with because that quality is something that employees within the company should be concerned about instead of us folks; so pardon me if I find this redundant topic to be very obnoxious whenever it gets brought up about ANY wrestler in general.




This is a laughably bad response. You enter these threads and normally linger a bit until you think you can hop in and say something “witty”. You enter a thread that is 100% about ratings and you talk about how you don’t care about ratings. What’s interesting to me is you are barely active here in this thread (since you’re being proven wrong post by post), but you’re basically every other post in a Corbin bashing thread (you know, before 85% of this forum got the clue and realized he’s an amazing heel). Tell Discord cheers bucko. My wife and I are starting our anniversary weekend now and you showing yourself as a pathetic little boy like I always knew is just too sweet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Soul Rex

bradatar said:


> Benoit’s issue was always charisma and mic work. Not sure why he’s involved here but he got over by being one of the best at the time in the ring with a menacing look. Benoit didn’t connect with charisma. He connected because he sold like a boss, was an amazing wrestler, and told a story. Once again a geek in this thread doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why the fuck do you people are always over analyzing the word charisma or just leveling it to what you know or what you has seen.

As I have said two thousand times here, charisma comes in many, many ways. If you said Benoit connected because of how he carried himself in the ring and how his physical aura reached out, then you are technically saying he was charismatic, in his own way.

Stop believing charisma is a kind of personality or whatever shit you think it is.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

Benoit clearly had everything except mic skills. And he definitely had charisma.


----------



## raymond1985

Rick Sanchez said:


> Benoit clearly had everything except mic skills. And he definitely had charisma.


Not enough to be a credible headliner. 

He caused more damage to wrestling than otherwise. His ring style was moronic and his crimes turned a lot of people off wrestling for a time.


----------



## Deadman's Hand

raymond1985 said:


> Not enough to be a credible headliner.
> 
> He caused more damage to wrestling than otherwise. His ring style was moronic and his crimes turned a lot of people off wrestling for a time.


Benoit's style was heavily influenced by Dynamite Kid, so if you wanna blame anyone for being "detrimental to the business," blame him.


----------



## bradatar

Soul Rex said:


> Why the fuck do you people are always over analyzing the word charisma or just leveling it to what you know or what you has seen.
> 
> 
> 
> As I have said two thousand times here, charisma comes in many, many ways. If you said Benoit connected because of how he carried himself in the ring and how his physical aura reached out, then you are technically saying he was charismatic, in his own way.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop believing charisma is a kind of personality or whatever shit you think it is.




Charisma isn’t drawing power and Benoit had neither. Do you really think I give a fuck about what you said “two thousand times”? You’re the one who confuses the two. Undertaker is charismatic, not Chris fucking Benoit. Maybe you and DC watching wrestling in your friends basements garage made that shit charismatic, but to real watchers it didn’t fly. Tell discord to get better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

Deadman's Hand said:


> Benoit's style was heavily influenced by Dynamite Kid, so if you wanna blame anyone for being "detrimental to the business," blame him.


Yes, that is true. 

But Benoit is his own man. He made his own choices. He saw what happened to Dynamite, yet carried on abusing his own body and actually took things much further than Billington did. Meltzer is also to blame for glamourising that particular ring style. 

I find it disturbing that some people can just dismiss Benoit's crimes just because Meltzer rated his matches highly.


----------



## bradatar

Deadman's Hand said:


> Benoit's style was heavily influenced by Dynamite Kid, so if you wanna blame anyone for being "detrimental to the business," blame him.




Two morons where’s your point 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Deadman's Hand

raymond1985 said:


> Yes, that is true.
> 
> But Benoit is his own man. He made his own choices. He saw what happened to Dynamite, yet carried on abusing his own body and actually took things much further than Billington did. Meltzer is also to blame for glamourising that particular ring style.
> 
> I find it disturbing that some people can just dismiss Benoit's crimes just because Meltzer rated his matches highly.


How is Meltzer to blame just because he said he enjoyed those matches? And nobody dismisses what Chris Benoit did just because of Dave's star ratings, everyone agrees that what he did was fucking horrible, regardless of whether or not they liked his matches.


----------



## bradatar

Deadman's Hand said:


> How is Meltzer to blame just because he said he enjoyed those matches? And nobody dismisses what Chris Benoit did just because of Dave's star ratings, everyone agrees that what he did was fucking horrible, regardless of whether or not they liked his matches.




Are you seriously, in real life, comparing real humans to Dave fucking Meltzer?


Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

Deadman's Hand said:


> How is Meltzer to blame just because he said he enjoyed those matches? And nobody dismisses what Chris Benoit did just because of Dave's star ratings, everyone agrees that what he did was fucking horrible, regardless of whether or not they liked his matches.


1) He placed that much of an emphasis on that style of wrestling, that those who grew up reading his newsletter thought it was the best approach to wrestling. 

2) Some fans still celebrate him primarily based on his matches. Matches that likely contributed to the crimes he committed. I find that very disturbing.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

raymond1985 said:


> Not enough to be a credible headliner.
> 
> He caused more damage to wrestling than otherwise. His ring style was moronic and his crimes turned a lot of people off wrestling for a time.


Never said he should be a headliner. And his later crimes have nothing to do with his talents.


----------



## raymond1985

Rick Sanchez said:


> Never said he should be a headliner. *And his later crimes have nothing to do with his talents.*


Yes, they do.

The concussions he sustained from working that ring style likely caused his behavioral problems. 

And what other talents did he have other than in-ring work?


----------



## bradatar

raymond1985 said:


> Yes, they do.
> 
> 
> 
> The concussions he sustained from working that ring style likely caused his behavioral problems.
> 
> 
> 
> And what other talents did he have other than in-ring work?




He’s a murdering mid carder who is lucky he grew into the biz with Jericho and Malenko(dean sucks but the dude can wrestle around anyone)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> Charisma isn’t drawing power and Benoit had neither. Do you really think I give a fuck about what you said “two thousand times”? You’re the one who confuses the two. Undertaker is charismatic, not Chris fucking Benoit. Maybe you and DC watching wrestling in your friends basements garage made that shit charismatic, but to real watchers it didn’t fly. Tell discord to get better.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love to burst your own bubble, but it's pretty obvious that Chris Benoit had plenty of charisma. Don't get all pissy with that guy just because you can't accept the fact that Benoit was charismatic :lol



bradatar said:


> Are you seriously, in real life, comparing real humans to Dave fucking Meltzer?
> 
> 
> Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dave Meltzer IS a real human though :kobe


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> I love to burst your own bubble, but it's pretty obvious that Chris Benoit had plenty of charisma. Don't get all pissy with that guy just because you can't accept the fact that Benoit was charismatic :lol




Keep baiting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> I love to burst your own bubble, but it's pretty obvious that Chris Benoit had plenty of charisma. Don't get all pissy with that guy just because you can't accept the fact that Benoit was charismatic :lol


What is your opinion on Chris Beniot's ring style and the concussions he suffered due to it?

Do you think those matches were worth damaging his brain for?


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> Keep baiting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Says the one who brought up my name twice and talked shit (when I wasn't even around) before I made my 1st post a few pages back :mj


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> Says the one who brought up my name twice and talked shit (when I wasn't even around) before I made my 1st post a few pages back :mj




You got my buddy banned by your clear bullshit baiting. If you’re this dumb I feel sorry for you. However you won’t get me to use language to get
me banned which you’re clearly trying to do. You’re not even good at this man. Ask that one guy who cries about Wyatt in every thread. He really annoys me. He can teach you how to get me heated. The fact your punk ass is tolerated around here still shocks me. Salut. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

bradatar said:


> Keep baiting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly, I don't think he is baiting. 

He's legitimately offended that people don't like a child-murderer, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.


----------



## bradatar

raymond1985 said:


> Sadly, I don't think he is baiting.
> 
> 
> 
> He's legitimately offended that people don't like a child-murderer, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.




It really is unfair for NWO getting banned by not being able to accept such absolute bullshit. Dude is legit the worst poster and can bait someone into saying it so the other guy is at fault? Still bullshit to me. #unbanNWO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

bradatar said:


> It really is unfair for NWO getting banned by not being able to accept such absolute bullshit. Dude is legit the worst poster and can bait someone into saying it so the other guy is at fault? Still bullshit to me. #unbanNWO
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's ironic to hear this (ESPECIALLY coming from you) considering that your buddy was without a doubt an AWFUL poster, and he deserves to be gone for good.

It's pretty sad to hear you still whining about what happened to him 2 months later :lol



raymond1985 said:


> He's legitimately offended that people don't like a child-murderer, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.


Yet you clearly get offended that there are people out there who like Chris Benoit, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.



bradatar said:


> You’re digging yourself deeper by *continuing to avoid answering any questions.* You’re concentrating on bashing me which you always do. Shame.


I swear, it's like you're blind.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitC said:


> Sure, everything has to be on 1 talent's "fault" :lol
> 
> Edit:
> @bradatar ; still trying to think that I was “proven wrong” :mj4


No one is saying its one talents fault. But the guy was right, everyone wanted to blame Roman for bad numbers, but how that Rollins is the one beating Brock and in 15 segments a night, its.."well Vince is senile it doesnt matter who the champ is." Thats horseshit. Utter horseshit. Ever since Ive been watching wrestling the champion gets the credit and the blame. Its just like a QB of a football team. You get the glory and the blame. Everyone knows Im a big Corbin mark. If he wins the title next month and then does a record low segment, Ill be on here saying he flopped. Not.."vince is dumb and no one can get over you cant blame Corbin!" Hogwash. No one is saying its all Seths fault or all Seths credit. But being the "freaking " guy comes with responsibilites and instead of just being a blind mark, own up to the fact that the general public is completely neutral, AT BEST, about Rollins as the guy.


----------



## bradatar

DammitC said:


> It's ironic to hear this (ESPECIALLY coming from you) considering that your buddy was without a doubt an AWFUL poster, and he deserves to be gone for good.
> 
> It's pretty sad to hear you still whining about what happened to him 2 months later :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you clearly get offended that there are people out there who like Chris Benoit, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.




You’re digging yourself deeper by continuing to avoid answering any questions. You’re concentrating on bashing me which you always do. Shame. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Yet you clearly get offended that there are people out there who like Chris Benoit, Dave Meltzer, and Seth Rollins.


Who on earth actually likes Dave Meltzer? 

I mean his reporting can be interesting, but the actual person? Yeah, no thanks.


----------



## Soul Rex

bradatar said:


> Charisma isn’t drawing power and Benoit had neither. Do you really think I give a fuck about what you said “two thousand times”? You’re the one who confuses the two. Undertaker is charismatic, not Chris fucking Benoit. Maybe you and DC watching wrestling in your friends basements garage made that shit charismatic, but to real watchers it didn’t fly. Tell discord to get better.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Benoit had one of greatest RTWM runs of all time and it ended being a very well sold PPV in times wherw WM buyrates were not always that good.

Not to mention he was universally loved during that peak. I was not here to argue Benoit was draw or not, because you said yourself he connected, you are making this all confusing because you seem to be contradicting yourself now.

In any case, you are still ignorant about what charisma is, it isn't something subjective, you can't say one wrestler is charismatic and other isn't because you believe so.. Or by some sort of shitty analysis you made that ignores popularity.

If a wrestler is popular it means he has charm, and if you have charm, you have sort of charisma, by definiton of the word... So if you believe Benoit connected, then you automatically believe he was charismatic, its quite that simple.

Charisma= connecting


----------



## bradatar

Soul Rex said:


> Benoit had one of greatest RTWM runs of all time and it ended being a very well sold PPV in times wherw WM buyrates were not always that good.
> 
> Not to mention he was universally loved during that peak. I was not here to argue Benoit was draw or not, because you said yourself he connected, you are making this all confusing because you seem to be contradicting yourself now.
> 
> In any case, you are still ignorant about what charisma is, it isn't something subjective, you can't say one wrestler is charismatic and other isn't because you believe so.. Or by some sort of shitty analysis you made that ignores popularity.
> 
> If a wrestler is popular it means he has charm, and if you have charm, you have sort of charisma, by definiton of the word... So if you believe Benoit connected, then you automatically believe he was charismatic, its quite that simple.
> 
> Charisma= connecting




No, you’re the one who has a disconnect here. Getting “into” a wrestler during a match is the same as watching a live sporting event and watching a player get hot, get a few punches in, etc. When Kawhaii Leonard hits 3 threes in a row and everyone gets into it does that mean Kawhaii has Charisma? Or does it mean the crowd is into it and “connected” because he’s hot? It’s the same with wrestling. Good wrestlers will get cheered when they wrestle good, but if they have flaws they’ll get easily exposed. Benoit was exposed very quickly for the same reason.


----------



## DammitChrist

Soul Rex said:


> Benoit had one of greatest RTWM runs of all time and it ended being a very well sold PPV in times wherw WM buyrates were not always that good.
> 
> *Not to mention he was universally loved during that peak.* I was not here to argue Benoit was draw or not, because you said yourself he connected, you are making this all confusing because you seem to be contradicting yourself now.
> 
> *In any case, you are still ignorant about what charisma is, it isn't something subjective, you can't say one wrestler is charismatic and other isn't because you believe so.. Or by some sort of shitty analysis you made that ignores popularity.
> 
> If a wrestler is popular it means he has charm, and if you have charm, you have sort of charisma, by definiton of the word... So if you believe Benoit connected, then you automatically believe he was charismatic, its quite that simple.
> 
> Charisma= connecting*


Hey, it's always nice to see someone who ACTUALLY knows what charisma is; which is the ability of a wrestler to connect with the crowds and to get oneself over with those fans (preferably on a consistent and/or frequent basis) :nice

Here are some examples of Benoit being over with crowds due to his ability to connect with the fans:



Spoiler: Benoit clips


































































Just listen to those crowd reactions during his entrances. 

By the way, notice how Benoit still got cheers without even having to talk, wrestle, or get physical in multiple cases :mj

He didn't get over JUST because of his incredible in-ring ability. Benoit had plenty of charisma.

Edit:



raymond1985 said:


> Do you not find it off-putting that his in-ring ability gave him so many concussions? Concussions that damaged his brain, and more than likely played a role in him becoming a child-murderer.


I don't think that Benoit's excellent in-ring ability is what necessarily gave him those concussions.

I believe that it was those Diving Headbutts along with all those other shots to his head throughout his career. Even though he had some awesome moments where he did the Diving Headbutt (such as that one off the top of the ladder to Kane at Wrestlemania 21), some of those shots to his head is hard to watch now knowing what eventually happened to him. He even got hit with a fucking brick to the back of his head at one point (by Edge at Backlash 2005) :done

Honestly, I wish Benoit was able to get medical help/attention when he really needed it early on just in time so that he would've been able to live longer than he did, and so that his family would still be alive today. It's just tragic what happened to all 3 members.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Cesaro/Ricochet was the worst rated segment of RAW. The universal title match between Rollins and Rusev gained 15,000 viewers, which is horrible for a RAW main event and a world title match.


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> Hey, it's always nice to see someone who ACTUALLY knows what charisma is; which is the ability of a wrestler to connect with the crowds and to get oneself over with those fans (preferably on a consistent and/or frequent basis) :nice
> 
> Here are some examples of Benoit being over with crowds due to his ability to connect with the fans:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Benoit clips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just listen to those crowd reactions during his entrances.
> 
> By the way, notice how Benoit still got cheers without even having to talk, wrestle, or get physical in multiple cases :mj
> 
> He didn't get over JUST because of his incredible in-ring ability. Benoit had plenty of charisma.


Do you not find it off-putting that his in-ring ability gave him so many concussions? Concussions that damaged his brain, and more than likely played a role in him becoming a child-murderer.



Soul Rex said:


> Benoit had one of greatest RTWM runs of all time and it ended being a very well sold PPV in times wherw WM buyrates were not always that good.


Goldberg and Lesnar sold that PPV. With Rock and Foley also helping. 

It was known in the build up to the show that the Goldberg vs Lesnar match was by far the most anticipated by the fans. Even Meltzer admitted that at the time. WWE closed its weekly TV shows with segments involving Rock/Foley, and then Brock/Austin. 

Benoit did not contribute to that buyrate in the slightest. He could not even sell out his home town the following month despite the show being sold on him returning as world champion. He's also one of the lowest drawing house show champions ever, and drew less than those who came before him, and after him.

I get that you said that he wasn't a draw. But people overlook just how big as flop he was as champion.


----------



## fulcizombie

Interesting fact, aew dynamite came somewhat close to Raw’s Season premiere (0.89 vs. 0.68) despite having NXT at the same time. Rollins is the same with Reigns, awful on the mic with Superman booking only a much better wrestler. Only the fiend can save Raw right now (since they ruined Strawman) and similar characters or a complete change of pace for the show.


----------



## Bennu

raymond1985 said:


> Do you not find it off-putting that his in-ring ability gave him so many concussions? Concussions that damaged his brain, and more than likely played a role in him becoming a child-murderer.


Wasn't roid rage also a factor in this?

I'm sure there have been a number of wrestlers who performed in the same in ring style as Beniot and none of them went through what he went through.


Also like I said regarding the ratings, no disrespect to Rollins but there's a reason why his "girlfriend" is getting a bigger push on WWE merchandise than him.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bradatar said:


> No, you’re the one who has a disconnect here. Getting “into” a wrestler during a match is the same as watching a live sporting event and watching a player get hot, get a few punches in, etc. When Kawhaii Leonard hits 3 threes in a row and everyone gets into it does that mean Kawhaii has Charisma? Or does it mean the crowd is into it and “connected” because he’s hot? It’s the same with wrestling. Good wrestlers will get cheered when they wrestle good, but if they have flaws they’ll get easily exposed. Benoit was exposed very quickly for the same reason.


Bingo. Same with a guy like Ricochet. They'll ooooo and ahhh and clap when he's doing all his stunts, but are they emotionally invested in his character? Do they CARE if he wins or loses? Who was the guy the entire arena was creating chants for..(MSG mind you) in their KOTR match? Oh yeah, Baron Corbin. Why? Because no matter how many moveeeeeez he does, people actually care about whether he wins or loses, and not just about tall of a building he can jump off of and land on his feet.


----------



## rexmundi

With the controversy of a bad ppv coupled with a non competitive nfl game, this show could do better than I was expecting. Honestly it was a horrendously boring raw and deserves to drop bigly.


----------



## SPCDRI

rexmundi said:


> With the controversy of a bad ppv coupled with a non competitive nfl game, this show could do better than I was expecting. Honestly it was a horrendously boring raw and deserves to drop bigly.


Monday Night RAW has benefited from the last 4 Monday Night Football games being over by half time stinkers, that's for sure.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.443M [11th] | 0.780D [5th]
H2: 2.330M [14th] | 0.760D [6th]
H3: 2.230M [17th] | 0.700D [9th]

3H: 2.334M | 0.747D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.113M | - 4.65% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.56% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.100M | - 4.29% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.89% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.213M | - 8.72% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 11.26% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.236M | - 9.18% ]
[ - 0.146D | - 16.35% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.040M | - 1.68% ]
[ - 0.076D | - 9.23% ]*


----------



## ClintDagger

Expecting a drop because the buzz is gone but against that awful game anything less than what they did last week is not good.

Edit: Just saw Jonny’s post. Yikes!


----------



## The XL 2

That PPV finish was atrocious and Raw was unwatchable, hoping for a sub 2 mil rating, although it's unlikely to happen sadly


----------



## ClintDagger

H1 dropped a quarter of a mil coming out of a PPV. Not good.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

That show deserved even lower than this.


----------



## Jonhern

AEW could come close to the 3rd hour this week they got a .68 last week. Big drop in the demo for them, as usual, the drop in the demo is more than the drop in overall viewers, meaning they are losing young viewers faster, 17% drop in the demo vs 9% drop in total viewers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

TBH I was expecting closer to 2 million than what we got (like around 2.1-2.2 million) ... like I was thinking we'd see one of the hours (probably 3rd) go below 2 million. Last week was a semi-hyped season premiere with Brock Lesnar on the show. This week was coming off the worst received PPV ending in a long time with a lot of people saying they'd stop watching. The fact they managed to hold above 2.3 million is somewhat impressive.

At the end of the day though, it's a bad number but more than what the episode deserved.


----------



## Seafort

#BadNewsSanta said:


> TBH I was expecting closer to 2 million than what we got (like around 2.1-2.2 million) ... like I was thinking we'd see one of the hours (probably 3rd) go below 2 million. Last week was a semi-hyped season premiere with Brock Lesnar on the show. This week was coming off the worst received PPV ending in a long time with a lot of people saying they'd stop watching. The fact they managed to hold above 2.3 million is somewhat impressive.
> 
> At the end of the day though, it's a bad number but more than what the episode deserved.


Ratings are a lagging indicator, both good and bad. Another two lifeless RAWs and we will easily be below 2M by the end of October.


----------



## Garty

Well, this weeks ratings tells you what's going to happen to the overall product... nothing.

Of course next week, we'll have the second half of the draft, which will no doubt be a ratings spike. Now it's off to the races, as you see every main-event talent move from USA, over to FOX this Friday. November is when you'll really see a drop-off.


----------



## Jonhern

Garty said:


> Well, this weeks ratings tells you what's going to happen to the overall product... nothing.
> 
> Of course next week, we'll have the second half of the draft, which will no doubt be a ratings spike. Now it's off to the races, as you see every main-event talent move from USA, over to FOX this Friday. November is when you'll really see a drop-off.


The shakeup didn't move the needle earlier this year though.


----------



## Garty

Jonhern said:


> The shakeup didn't move the needle earlier this year though.


Exactly and that's why you had the so-called, "wild card rule" over the summer. FOX will now be the ruling class of talent.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

That's a pretty good rating given how atrocious the show and PPV were.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

That Monday Night Raw last night wasn't even a Raw show. It was just a filler and house show mixed together. You had no big time stars except 3. The rest were just jobbers and tag teams together. No wonder the ratings went down.


----------



## rexmundi

The Ratings Recession continues. :lmao


----------



## chronoxiong

Well deserved rating for last night's show. I was really bored since there weren't any big stars on the show. A lot of tag teams that not many care for. Whatever happened to the 24/7 Title? Lol.


----------



## Dangerous Nemesis

chronoxiong said:


> Whatever happened to the 24/7 Title? Lol.


There was some action involving that at HIAC. Truth ended up winning it back.


----------



## SPCDRI

WWE hasn't had that moment where 1 million people see something really objectionable and they stop watching WWE, but they do cool people down, get people less interested in watching the show, and then these people eventually lapse to a point where they are hardly watching if they aren't totally not watching WWE anymore. The HIAC match has ramifications larger than this one show. This is going to cause a slow burn drop, the Bray Wyatt fuckery. No matter how many times this guy gets himself over, they make him eat a dick.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

and AEW can't compete... these guys are really close to going under 2 mil viewers while AEW on their first show ever did 1 and a half million. WWE should be very afraid.


----------



## hypnobitch

I do not watch RAW and Smackdown in its present state and keep up via YouTube and socialmedia, I can not see how anyone can sit through 3 hours of RAW presently but each to their own. 

I personally think the ratings will go into a slump again until Mania season. A MMA fighter and a bigoted Boxer are not going to move the needle as most fans are not even familiar with them and they come from totally different backgrounds that most wrestling fans could not care less about plus it is only being done for the Blood Money event and surely everyone must be aware by now that those shows are a waste of time.

Hopefully Survivor Series and the draft gets things more back on track with some freshness and a more faithful approach to pro wrestling again. But this is WWE so as always never get your hopes up too high.


----------



## ste1592

SPCDRI said:


> WWE hasn't had that moment where 1 million people see something really objectionable and they stop watching WWE, but they do cool people down, get people less interested in watching the show, and then these people eventually lapse to a point where they are hardly watching if they aren't totally not watching WWE anymore. The HIAC match has ramifications larger than this one show. This is going to cause a slow burn drop, the Bray Wyatt fuckery. No matter how many times this guy gets himself over, they make him eat a dick.


Your post makes so much sense, and yet I can't possibly wrap my head around "WWE hasn't had that moment were 1 million people just stop watching".

If there ever was the chance of a moment like that to happen, it was sunday night. That PPV ending was so atrocious that if I still was a regular TV watcher, I'd have immediately stopped.

I get the slow burn thing, but something like that should be the moment when the dam breaks down and the whole valley is flooded. I'm almost afraid to imagine what they can possibly do worst than that to cause that mass exodus of viewers.


----------



## Jonhern

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> and AEW can't compete... these guys are really close to going under 2 mil viewers while AEW on their first show ever did 1 and a half million. WWE should be very afraid.


In TV land it's the demo that matters and if aew keeps it's demo rating from last night they are already competing with raw even though they had a million less viewers. The top shows on TV are not by total viewers, just look at how all the ratings websites and industry news outlets list top shows. RAW won't even have to fall below 2mill, if AEW keeps that demo break up they only have to gain another 200k viewers to beat this raw rating.


----------



## Zappers

hypnobitch said:


> I do not watch RAW and Smackdown in its present state and keep up via YouTube and socialmedia, I can not see how anyone can sit through 3 hours of RAW presently but each to their own.


I just DVR the shows. Fast forward through the commercials and anything I'm not into at my own leisure. But at least I can see the entire show. In fact that's what most people do nowadays. That's why the ratings are so low. People that watch live have gone down drastically. This is a DVR, Social Media devices, video games, Netflix, Hulu, etc...world now. That yesteryear are long gone.


----------



## TheDraw

Watching the WWE slowly fade into irrelevance never fails to leave a big grin on my face......


----------



## Strike Force

ste1592 said:


> Your post makes so much sense, and yet I can't possibly wrap my head around "WWE hasn't had that moment were 1 million people just stop watching".
> 
> If there ever was the chance of a moment like that to happen, it was sunday night. That PPV ending was so atrocious that if I still was a regular TV watcher, I'd have immediately stopped.
> 
> I get the slow burn thing, but something like that should be the moment when the dam breaks down and the whole valley is flooded. I'm almost afraid to imagine what they can possibly do worst than that to cause that mass exodus of viewers.


Eh, they can always sink lower. People felt the same way after the Royal Rumble 2015 debacle, yet it took time for the audience to dissipate. People are creatures of habit by nature; personally, I don't believe any one booking decision, even as one as heinous as Rollins/Fiend, will drive people away in droves. It's death by a thousand paper cuts rather than a piano dropped on your head.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'm hoping for a bloodbath but I expect it to be better than that.


----------



## Kishido

They should drop below NXT


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I expect only 2 million tops. Perhaps 2.1 if IM being generous!


----------



## Ace

They'll get 2.5-2.6m.


----------



## llj

I can't imagine the numbers being very good


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I think 2.6 million, draft has historically been a huge ratings draw, if it's not around that level, just goes to show how much damage they did to the brand split, and how atrocious Fridays show was.


----------



## Dr. Jones

The Monday Night Football game was actually really good last night and Green Bay is one of the NFL's cornerstone franchises

NLCS was also on last night too

I'd be surprised if they did over a 2.4


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

HOLY FUCK, they started high and fell below 2 million, that's disgusting.

H1 - 2.521M

H2 - 2.318M

H3 - 1.997M


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.521M [10th] | 0.820D [5th]
H2: 2.318M [12th] | 0.760D [6th]
H3: 1.997M [14th] | 0.630D [8th]

3H: 2.279M | 0.737D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.203M | - 8.05% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.32% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.321M | - 13.85% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 17.11% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.524M | - 20.79% ]
[ - 0.190D | - 23.17% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.055M | - 2.36% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.34% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.117M | - 4.88% ]
[ - 0.123D | - 14.30% ]*


----------



## Ace

2.2m :sodone

They're finished :lmao

This was a draft special.


----------



## The True Believer

The Inbred Goatman said:


> HOLY FUCK, they started high and fell below 2 million, that's disgusting.
> 
> H1 - 2.521M
> 
> H2 - 2.318M
> 
> H3 - 1.997M


Comes up to a 2.279 overall average.


----------



## Ace

13.3m viewers for the Packers.

That bad man Aaron Rodgers giving Monday Night Raw a addlin


----------



## A-C-P

Draft Special :heston


----------



## Dr. Jones

You could see the writing on the wall earlier this year when their RTWM season ratings barely increased from the winter months.

People just don't want to see this current crop of "stars"

People still shit on 1995, but that main group of Bret, HBK, Diesel, Taker, and Razor had 200X more star power than this group combined. Coincidentally though, like this current group, Vince wasn't playing to any of that 95 group's strengths besides maybe The Undertaker


----------



## raymond1985

The close NFL game combined with an all-round poor show and Rollins headlining the final hour explains that number.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hour 3 :heston

B Show, B Show, You Blow, Blow, Blow. roud


----------



## Y.2.J

Yikes.
That was a really bad episode though. Deserved low rating.
Do better next week & hopefully the ratings will improve.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hour 3 had a lower demo than AEW'S premiere. :sodone


----------



## DammitChrist

raymond1985 said:


> The close NFL game combined with an all-round poor show and *Rollins headlining the final hour explains that number.*


What a surprise. Of course you blame Seth Rollins for that 3rd hour of that mediocre show even though he didn't appear until the last 3-4 minutes :mj4


----------



## Mifune Jackson

They need another new Raw set and Brock needs to win the Universal title, too. It's the only way.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Patriots at Jets next week. My prediction for RAW:


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> What a surprise. Of course you blame Seth Rollins for that 3rd hour (along with the mediocre show) even though he didn't appear until the last 3-4 minutes :mj4


But I thought you didn't care about drawing?

Anyway, the hook for the 3rd hour was the Rollins vs Fiend feud. They teased a confrontation between the two earlier in the show. They wanted people to stick around to see it.....................but they mostly didn't.

Obviously, other factors were to blame as well.


----------



## Zappers

raymond1985 said:


> The close NFL game combined with an all-round poor show and Rollins headlining the final hour explains that number.


This is probably the reason.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Saturday morning should be a spectacle when Smackdown's ratings hit. opcorn


----------



## The XL 2

Damn, hour 3 under 2 mil. It won't be long until the whole show is under 2 mil. WWE is fucked


----------



## LPPrince

Y'all remember when Smackdown was the only show that was barely over 2 while Raw was the one at 3-4?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

AEW now has 50% of raws audience. We need to slowly chip away!


----------



## Not Lying

So Becky vs Charlotte drew big time? Suck on that haters :lmao


----------



## SMW

great info!


----------



## ClintDagger

Wow. I think USA better get ready because all of the anti-draws got sent to Raw.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The Definition of Technician said:


> So Becky vs Charlotte drew big time? Suck on that haters :lmao


Come on dude... I am a Becky fan, but it was the opening segment. That always draws the biggest rating unless they announce something huge for later in the show. I don't think even the biggest Becky and Charlotte fans tuned in to watch them continue their best of 1007 series. People tuned in for the draft, saw it was shit and turned off in droves.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The new theme for WWE'S ratings:





 :fact


----------



## TheLooseCanon

HAHA Fuck WWE


----------



## BrahmaBull247

RAW got killed in the ratings LOL!!! :lol That’s what they get for shoving a trash product in our face and burying good characters like The Fiend. Becky and Seth are really burning down the ratings.


----------



## Not Lying

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Come on dude... I am a Becky fan, but it was the opening segment. That always draws the biggest rating unless they announce something huge for later in the show. I don't think even the biggest Becky and Charlotte fans tuned in to watch them continue their best of 1007 series. People tuned in for the draft, saw it was shit and turned off in droves.


I know I know :lmao 
But you know damn well if the first hour drew less than the 2nd hour (which happens more often than not) then the geeks here will blame Becky Charlotte and the women..

But WWE deserves those shitty ratings. I am LEGIT starting to agree with Russo that AEW is owned by WWE, that they are sucking on purpose to increase AEW's viewership... the trash they've been putting on lately deserves the utmost of criticism.

It was just goes to show u how easily I can manipulate just numbers and data to whatever agenda I have.


----------



## Algernon

The draft format was a disaster and the numbers prove it. Come NBA playoff time next spring I think you'll see AEW go head to head with Raw or Smackdown as a test run.


----------



## drougfree

yikes . even nitro 2001 had better ratings


----------



## Deathiscoming

Seems like most people don't care about women's wrestling and tag titles as the hour-3 drop indicates :lol

They probably would've stuck around for people who actually draw, say, Roman and Bryan vs Rowan and Harper or something.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitC said:


> What a surprise. Of course you blame Seth Rollins for that 3rd hour of that mediocre show even though he didn't appear until the last 3-4 minutes :mj4


Uh. They advertised Seth going after the Fiend the entire show on the bottom line. So, are you saying people can't read? Or are they blind? Is that the excuse for Sethy boy this week? Lol.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> So Becky vs Charlotte drew big time? Suck on that haters :lmao


 Becky and Charlotte lost 600k viewers last week, their tag match lost viewers on Raw last week, and then there's the ratingpoclaypse from Nov to WM.

Nice try.


----------



## henrymark

Well frankly they deserve it. Every other company when facing criticism tries to rectify the problem when their consumers are unhappy with a product. WWE on the other hand and it's workers like Seth and Bray simply dismiss the problems and taunt people on social media. 

Get what deserve.

Would love to see all 3 hours drop below 2 and see Vince's face


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Hour 1 was higher than I expected. A 30 minute Becky/Charlotte match and the crowd will tune out. Those 2 shouldn't be feuding again (this soon) and shouldn't go one-on-one unless it is a PPV and probably a Big Four at this point. That is why we saw Hour 1 to Hour 3 drop rival the viewership of NXT. That was a terrible episode. The Rollins shit both the uninspired promo earlier in the show and the overly predictable "burn it down" of the Firefly Fun House was just dumb. FFH was one of the few things I looked forward to seeing now that appears to be done.


----------



## Singapore Kane

henrymark said:


> Well frankly they deserve it. Every other company when facing criticism tries to rectify the problem when their consumers are unhappy with a product. WWE on the other hand and it's workers like Seth and Bray simply dismiss the problems and taunt people on social media.
> 
> Get what deserve.
> 
> Would love to see all 3 hours drop below 2 and see Vince's face


And now we're building to another heatless Seth Rollins match and cashing in more Saudi blood money. 

Just a lil treat, I'm entitled to it.


----------



## Brother_T

I just checked out the WWE roster to see what their talent looks like today. i know that beards are in and all, but like 90% of the male roster has beards and many of them I can barely tell apart. Funny how the more over wrestlers are, clean shaven, have five o'clock shadows or just a little bit of finely groomed facial hair. 

Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Miz, Ziggler, R-Truth, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Lashely, etc. Undertaker has a finely groomed goat tee. Daniel Bryan is over with or without they crazy beard, Balor is better with the face paint and clean shaven. I don't know just with this observation maybe a few wrestlers could benefit going clean shaven. Seth Rollins anyone?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Singapore Kane said:


> And now we're building to another heatless Seth Rollins match and cashing in more Saudi blood money.
> 
> Just a lil treat, I'm entitled to it.


Quit watching. I did that 3 weeks ago and it’s been awesome. No reason to force yourself to watch that crap with AEW here, Dark, NWA, and Impact going to Tuesday later this month.


----------



## Freelancer

I quit watching when WWE all together when AEW came on a few weeks ago. It's so much more enjoyable. I put Raw on this week just because there was literally nothing else. Show held my attention for maybe 5 minutes before I was on my phone then sleeping.

They deserve the poor ratings. as they are making no effort to make it any better. Everyone should just do themselves a favor and start watching wrestling other than WWE. Dynamite and AEW Dark are for more enjoyable than anything WWE is putting out right now.


----------



## Kishido

Absolutely deserved


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> Becky and Charlotte lost 600k viewers last week, their tag match lost viewers on Raw last week, and *then there's the ratingpoclaypse from Nov to WM. *
> Nice try.


Nice try? You're talking about LAST WEEK, I'm talking about this week. Becky and Charlotte had a LONG 2 commercial break great match to open RAW while many geeks were complaining about it. if people didn't give a fuck about it, they would have tuned out, they had many chances, yet the ratings fell off a cliff after the first hour. 

Ratings apocalypse :lmao 
*All because of the women right*? has Absolutely NOTHING to do with;
- Roman THE FOTC THE MOST IMPORTANT GUY leaving
- doing the Saudi show post-murder controversy
- burying Braun, and putting the title on that geek Lesnar again. 

NEVERMIND THE FACT, that it was in JULY, that ratings trend of "all-time lows" started happening. But you're gona ignore that right? You can't seem to be able to detect a pattern or a trend, or you ignore it to fit your agenda. 

But we've had this discussion before and you always run and avoid all these FACTS. Hypocrite and a coward.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nice try? You're talking about LAST WEEK, I'm talking about this week. Becky and Charlotte had a LONG 2 commercial break great match to open RAW while many geeks were complaining about it. if people didn't give a fuck about it, they would have tuned out, they had many chances, yet the ratings fell off a cliff after the first hour.
> 
> Ratings apocalypse :lmao
> *All because of the women right*? has Absolutely NOTHING to do with;
> - Roman THE FOTC THE MOST IMPORTANT GUY leaving
> - doing the Saudi show post-murder controversy
> - burying Braun, and putting the title on that geek Lesnar again.
> 
> NEVERMIND THE FACT, that it was in JULY, that ratings trend of "all-time lows" started happening. But you're gona ignore that right? You can't seem to be able to detect a pattern or a trend, or you ignore it to fit your agenda.
> 
> But we've had this discussion before and you always run and avoid all these FACTS. Hypocrite and a coward.


 Stop trying to rewrite history, it wasn't that long ago fpalm

That period was particularly bad because ratings never rebounded after NFL or on the RTWM. No one came back after football season was over or for the RTWM. This is a time ratings should have increased, they didn't and continued to drop - that's why it was so alarming and the company began to panic.

Anyone who visits the weekly ratings thread can attest to all this.

It's embarrassing you're reaching to such lows given how much shit the women were getting around then. IIRC you were one who was defending it all.


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> Stop trying to rewrite history stan, it wasn't that far ago fpalm
> 
> That period was particularly bad because ratings never rebounded after NFL or on the RTWM. No one came back after football season was over or for the RTWM.
> 
> Anyone who visits the weekly ratings thread can attest to all this.
> 
> It's embarrassing you're reaching to such lows given how much shit the women were getting around then. IIRC you were one who was defending it all.


What history I rewrote? is that how you pussy out when called upon? give someone a half-assed vague response?
I gave you facts there buddy.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> What history I rewrote? is that how you pussy out when called upon? give someone a half-assed vague response?
> I gave you facts there buddy.


 You just said it started in July.

It was around November when things really fell apart and the company began to panic hard because of poor ratings.

All just a coincidence that ratings were apocalyptic bad around the time the women were the focus of the show and WM, right..

Do you want me to get the clip of Meltzer (a big supporter of womens wrestling and analyses these metrics for a living) saying people might not be ready for the women on top in the USA?


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> *You just said it started in July*.
> 
> It was around November when things really fell apart and the company began to panic hard because of poor ratings.
> 
> All just a coincidence that ratings were apocalyptic bad around the time the women were the focus of the show and WM, right..


https://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/...s-war-part-vi-lolratings-59.html#post75830420

https://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/...s-war-part-vi-lolratings-61.html#post75832068

The fact you liked these posts makes it so funny. :lmao 
Next.

Btw, i know women aren't ready to be on top in the USA and draw big time. Jesus. That's not the point I'm trying to make here.

Edit: let me make this clear for you. I don't think Becky or the women are going to increase the ratings, especially with the entire show being boring, and them barely giving more than 2 women spotlight. You add the fact you have the average age of viewership of WWE to be 40+, meaning they've been condiotioned for DECADES not to give a shit about the women. You are thinking very short term, WWE is looking to basically replace these viewership, we don't know how much new started watching, we don't know how much specifically dropped ONLY because of the women.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> https://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/...s-war-part-vi-lolratings-59.html#post75830420
> 
> https://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/...s-war-part-vi-lolratings-61.html#post75832068
> 
> The fact you liked these posts makes it so funny. :lmao
> Next.
> 
> Btw, i know women aren't ready to be on top in the USA and draw big time. Jesus. That's not the point I'm trying to make here.
> 
> Edit: let me make this clear for you. I don't think Becky or the women are going to increase the ratings, especially with the entire show being boring, and them barely giving more than 2 women spotlight. You add the fact you have the average age of viewership of WWE to be 40+, meaning they've been condiotioned for DECADES not to give a shit about the women. You are thinking very short term, WWE is looking to basically replace these viewership, we don't know how much new started watching, we don't know how much specifically dropped ONLY because of the women.


 What does me liking posts on WWE's failures before the ratings apocalypse have to do with anything?

They received far bigger Ls later on when no one came back to watch them post football or for the RTWM. This was a damn story, everyone was banging on about this fpalm


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I mean.... AEW should aim to #OutdrawRAW

It isn’t impossible


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> What does me liking posts on WWE's failures before the ratings apocalypse have to do with anything?
> 
> They received far bigger Ls later on when no one came back to watch them post football or for the RTWM. This was a damn story, everyone was banging on about this fpalm


Stop avoiding what I told you and consider the other factors. 

First, Are you serious? read the posts, it was a 20% drop and the trend continued, people were talking about top 3 all time lows. If it was top 3 drop, it was already the rating apocalypse sign. 


2nd, even you must understand by now what I told you a million times and you just shrug off because you pretend you don't understand anything: there were also other factors Braun, Roman, Saudi Arabia, Brock...like seriously, how can you not understand losing the fotc overnight would have some effect? add to that the controversial shit and horrible booking decisions.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Stop avoiding what I told you and consider the other factors.
> 
> First, Are you serious? read the posts, it was a 20% drop and the trend continued, people were talking about top 3 all time lows. If it was top 3 drop, it was already the rating apocalypse sign.
> 
> 
> 2nd, even you must understand by now what I told you a million times and you just shrug off because you pretend you don't understand anything: there were also other factors Braun, Roman, Saudi Arabia, Brock...like seriously, how can you not understand losing the fotc overnight would have some effect? add to that the controversial shit and horrible booking decisions.


 I agree with that (Roman being out and booking as a whole), I even said as such during that time. They had buried the guys so much and nothing was over, the losers/the guys Vince doesn't care about were left and these guys were undercarding for Becky, Charlotte etc. making them feel even more irrelevant and making them feel even smaller.


----------



## InexorableJourney

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I mean.... AEW should aim to #OutdrawRAW
> 
> It isn’t impossible


Do you think that is more likely to happen through AEW's success or through WWE's failure?


----------



## Evo Kazz

WWE was bad before the re-branding but I still watched and managed to suck some minor fun from it, but isn't a re-branding meant to make something better? These past few SD and RAW have been hard to sit through. 

I always loved the draft, hoping new stars come from NXT some surprises etc, this draft is terrible, their basically drafting many to shows their already on!! What's with the silly panel bits with Renee? It kills what little fun there may be. I'm not American so I have no idea who these presenters are they keep shoving on my screen, and these network execs videos of them cheering at the draft is cringey as hell.

I don't get sucked into the WWE vs AEW crap, I enjoyed both, but man, WWE is becoming torture to watch. I don't know how AEW will manage long term, but WWE is forcing them into success if they keep this up.


----------



## birthday_massacre

AEW will have higher ratings before the end of the year


----------



## raymond1985

birthday_massacre said:


> AEW will have higher ratings before the end of the year


Sadly, they won't.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Ace said:


> You just said it started in July.
> 
> It was around November when things really fell apart and the company began to panic hard because of poor ratings.
> 
> All just a coincidence that ratings were apocalyptic bad around the time the women were the focus of the show and WM, right..
> 
> Do you want me to get the clip of Meltzer (a big supporter of womens wrestling and analyses these metrics for a living) saying people might not be ready for the women on top in the USA?


Yeah I remember, after Roman left owing to Leukemia and the big angle going into Survivor Series was Ronda Rousey and Cringy Lynch and her "The Man" nonsense, and throw in one dozen fucking women, including Nia Jax, Raw had become a women's wrestling nightmare. 

They literally did NOTHING of note with most of the men in the midcard. Every Raw and Smackdown was about the damn women, especially Cringy Lynch and the "historic" WM mainevent. And we all know how awful Lesnar's programmes are, so Lesnar+Seth was doomed to be a disaster. They picked the wrong guy in Seth. It should've been Kevin Owens, period. (Since Strowman and Joe were already beaten by Brock).

One would have to be a fool to not see how last year's RTWM(with Roman leaving, at that) resulted in even many more hardcore fans giving up on the WWE based on their displeasure/disinterest with women's wrestling/Cringy Lynch.

Just imagine some guy who used to have Austin versus Rock, Brock vs Taker, or Taker vs Shawn, or Punk vs Jericho as the big programmes going into WM, turns on the TV in 2019 and finds a bunch of women, one of who is Cringy Lynch and is flabbergasted at the announcement that this is the MAINEVENT of Wrestlemania and that every Raw/Smackdown he had to sit through 20-30-40 minutes of women's wrestling and talking/contract signing segments :lol That guy(and many others) would NEVER even want to watch the WWE again. What incentive did they give him? 

And foolish Vince/WWE made it worse by having 1)Cringy Lynch 2)Death Rollins and 3)Crappy Kingston as the threefold focus of the company following WM.

A company where the aforementioned three ratings killers are your main focus over Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan and others. Raw's going to suck just as much, judging from their obsession with women's wrestling saturating 35-40% of TV time, Cuck storylines, Seth Rollins, and Ricochet.

They've got three interesting guys in AJ, Randy and KO but I've got no faith in them NOT being overshadowed by the garbage that is Raw. Can't wait for the historically low viewership and ratings. The WWE are never going to learn.

May be Smackdown will be The Show to watch(other than AEW).


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> I agree with that (Roman being out and booking as a whole), I even said as such during that time. They had buried the guys so much and nothing was over, the losers/the guys Vince doesn't care about were left and these guys were undercarding for Becky, Charlotte etc. making them feel even more irrelevant and making them feel even smaller.


Yeah except that's not completely true. Becky Charlotte Asuka and Bryan and AJ were killing it on SD, I wouldn't know aboutn RAW since the champion wasn't there and nothing important was happening  I legit don't remember anything from RAW building up for TLC or Rumble last year except building Balor/Brock match..and the build up sucked because Brock. 

It's not the women's fault the fans didn't give a shit about the other stuff that was going on, the women were still getting 10-15min per episode, except they were over af. How do you justify the crowd going complete DEAD for fucking Daniel Bryan and Styles at the Rumble because they had to follow Becky? or the next day, a 3min announced segment between Becky/Ronda in the middle of the show drew more buzz and more trends than Rollins/Brock being confirmed.

It's not really the women's fault that WWE fucked up again with the male talent but didn't with the women, so do the women get ALL the blame, is that how it goes? Nevermind the fact Becky is the top merch seller.

I don't see the points of these threads anymore btw. Everyone acts like an expert knowing what draws and not, we were all shitting on WWE for their 15-20% year on year drop trend since 2014. RAW looked fucked and everyone was talking about how when their contract expires they won't get as good of a deal with USA Network as they did before..but alas.. they got FOX. If 3-4 years of ratings trend to go by was any indicator, it was a bad decision, except maybe those numbers we see as terrible compared to before, aren't so bad for the people that actually give a shit about them.


----------



## tailhook

WINNING said:


> He has majority shares, thus having the most controlling power.


That's not how it works. Vince has controlling interest of voting power. 'Majority of shares' doesn't matter.

These days stock has different classes and levels of voting power. Depending on the class its not 1:1, and most of Vince's will be more powerful than most. This is so stock can be issued to pay for say mergers and acquisitions, without losing controlling interest of the voting power in the company. In short, you can have controlling interest of voting power, without having a majority of the shares.

So if you're buying stock publicly, 10 off the market may be equal to 1 of Vince's as it pertains to voting power.


----------



## Mongstyle

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah except that's not completely true. Becky Charlotte Asuka and Bryan and AJ were killing it on SD, I wouldn't know aboutn RAW since the champion wasn't there and nothing important was happening  I legit don't remember anything from RAW building up for TLC or Rumble last year except building Balor/Brock match..and the build up sucked because Brock.
> 
> It's not the women's fault the fans didn't give a shit about the other stuff that was going on, the women were still getting 10-15min per episode, except they were over af. How do you justify the crowd going complete DEAD for fucking Daniel Bryan and Styles at the Rumble because they had to follow Becky? or the next day, a 3min announced segment between Becky/Ronda in the middle of the show drew more buzz and more trends than Rollins/Brock being confirmed.
> 
> It's not really the women's fault that WWE fucked up again with the male talent but didn't with the women, so do the women get ALL the blame, is that how it goes? Nevermind the fact Becky is the top merch seller.
> 
> I don't see the points of these threads anymore btw. Everyone acts like an expert knowing what draws and not, we were all shitting on WWE for their 15-20% year on year drop trend since 2014. RAW looked fucked and everyone was talking about how when their contract expires they won't get as good of a deal with USA Network as they did before..but alas.. they got FOX. If 3-4 years of ratings trend to go by was any indicator, it was a bad decision, except maybe those numbers we see as terrible compared to before, aren't so bad for the people that actually give a shit about them.


This was Meltzer on the fallout from Mania and Lynch:



> "They were down 8% year on year for the Network.
> 
> The network hasn't really grown much in the last couple of years. They've added international growth, but US growth has been really small. Last year for WM they had a pretty decent year as far as the growth and this year going into WM it was not that strong, a little down from last year.
> 
> If you look at the numbers of the decrease last year and this year for the Network, it pretty much collapsed this year. Which tells us what we kind of already knew, the interest in WWE right now coming out of WM was really weak.
> 
> Coming out of WM it was supposed to be Becky Lynch and everything, but as soon as Ronda was gone... We both know, we both thought it.
> 
> Anyone who thinks Becky Lynch was the most valuable women in the company, there is no way now. You could have argued it before, it's so clear this thing was carried by Ronda and her name. The minute Becky didn't have Ronda, granted she worked with Lacey which is a big drop.
> 
> The network never had a drop and now it has a big drop. All these changes I don't see them helping, I see more and more people getting confused with the network and more and more frustrated."


People really need to stop pretending like everyone is failing equally. They're not. The rate of decline slowed in 2016 and 2017 compared to how catastrophic 2015 was with Rollins title run from prior years. And the 2018 Mania season did good business with Network growth up and them doing better viewership too in comparison to 2017. Reigns was no Cena but he was far and away better than the rest. That much is evident. The big mistake they made last year was not giving Reigns the belt at Mania and putting Raw into a holding pattern. That 4 month period damaged the brand because they put it into a holding pattern for too long.

And the collapse WWE experienced starting late 2018 after his cancer was crazy fast. Hell, had he not returned and the Wild Card hadn't been done, I'm confident WWE Raw ratings would've been lower than 2 million right after Mania.

I mean, we already saw it this year. WWE gave the "over" superstars everything. Becky won the title. Rollins won the title. Kofi won the title. The shows were built around these individuals. But WWE didn't even get a Mania bump this year. There was no bounce back. And business was down on top of it. And immediately after Mania, the decline only accelerated and they were headed straight to sub-2 million for Raw which led to USA Network panicking and telling them to bring Reigns to Raw and they even brought Brock back a few weeks later to help counter it. And it obviously worked, because they went from heading to sub 2-million to floating a few hundred thousand above it. Clearly, being "over" with the live crowd doesn't really give you the whole picture and doesn't mean a whole lot in isolation.

They may not be big movers, but ultimately the few hundred thousand difference guys like Reigns and Brock can do is obviously significant enough. And it's no accident the product has felt the most dead it ever has this year when the ball has been put in the hands of other superstars who are not doing a good job of carrying it. This'll become more evident in the coming months as Reigns is likely put back in the title picture on Smackdown and becomes a focus of the show rather than being in the midcard for 10 minutes every week like he has since his return. They will almost certainly experience a bounce back after a few months.

The real question is if Raw can be helped or not since Reigns is on Smackdown as is Brock, and even Bryan and Strowman to a lesser extent who are good supporting faces, while Raw basically has shit-tier star power right now at the top. Orton is long past having any impact and Owens will never be the kind of guy to move things. Styles is a good supporting act but that's his limit. And that's also what Rollins is who the show is built around, and he's already been a disaster this year so there's no logical reason to expect things are going to be any different now. Raw literally lacks a center piece.

And the biggest mistake WWE made was not trialling someone new in that position. Like Strowman. To see how things go with him. Instead they went to the same old bland well with Rollins, who's been a B player for years already. They missed the timing on that at Crown Jewel last year. Heck, even someone like Balor would've at least been something new just to see if it produces any different results. But they went for the boring option and have paid for it.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mongstyle said:


> This was Meltzer on the fallout from Mania and Lynch:
> 
> 
> 
> People really need to stop pretending like everyone is failing equally. They're not. The rate of decline slowed in 2016 and 2017 compared to how catastrophic 2015 was with Rollins title run from prior years. And the 2018 Mania season did good business with Network growth up and them doing better viewership too in comparison to 2017. Reigns was no Cena but he was far and away better than the rest. That much is evident. The big mistake they made last year was not giving Reigns the belt at Mania and putting Raw into a holding pattern. That 4 month period damaged the brand because they put it into a holding pattern for too long.
> 
> And the collapse WWE experienced starting late 2018 after his cancer was crazy fast. Hell, had he not returned and the Wild Card hadn't been done, I'm confident WWE Raw ratings would've been lower than 2 million right after Mania.
> 
> I mean, we already saw it this year. WWE gave the "over" superstars everything. Becky won the title. Rollins won the title. Kofi won the title. The shows were built around these individuals. But WWE didn't even get a Mania bump this year. There was no bounce back. And business was down on top of it. And immediately after Mania, the decline only accelerated and they were headed straight to sub-2 million for Raw which led to USA Network panicking and telling them to bring Reigns to Raw and they even brought Brock back a few weeks later to help counter it. And it obviously worked, because they went from heading to sub 2-million to floating a few hundred thousand above it. Clearly, being "over" with the live crowd doesn't really give you the whole picture and doesn't mean a whole lot in isolation.
> 
> They may not be big movers, but ultimately the few hundred thousand difference guys like Reigns and Brock can do is obviously significant enough. And it's no accident the product has felt the most dead it ever has this year when the ball has been put in the hands of other superstars who are not doing a good job of carrying it. This'll become more evident in the coming months as Reigns is likely put back in the title picture on Smackdown and becomes a focus of the show rather than being in the midcard for 10 minutes every week like he has since his return. They will almost certainly experience a bounce back after a few months.
> 
> The real question is if Raw can be helped or not since Reigns is on Smackdown as is Brock, and even Bryan and Strowman to a lesser extent who are good supporting faces, while Raw basically has shit-tier star power right now at the top. Orton is long past having any impact and Owens will never be the kind of guy to move things. Styles is a good supporting act but that's his limit. And that's also what Rollins is who the show is built around, and he's already been a disaster this year so there's no logical reason to expect things are going to be any different now. Raw literally lacks a center piece.
> 
> And the biggest mistake WWE made was not trialling someone new in that position. Like Strowman. To see how things go with him. Instead they went to the same old bland well with Rollins, who's been a B player for years already. They missed the timing on that at Crown Jewel last year. Heck, even someone like Balor would've at least been something new just to see if it produces any different results. But they went for the boring option and have paid for it.


Great post. Really encapsulates well what those of us that follow the ratings have been seeing & saying. Too many fans live in an echo chamber and too easily confuse being popular with the hardcores versus having broad appeal.


----------



## Stadhart02

Haha what a shame! The WWE is terrible and managed to sit through some of the SD draft but it was awful and managed up until Becky's music hit on Raw before I quit - wtf was all that lame studio execs high fiving crap about? Who okayed that? Awful

Will watch AEW again when it is on in the UK - it is early days but I am really enjoying it so far. Something different and I like a lot of the wrestlers

Someone said above - all the wwe lot look the same and I can't name half of them anymore


----------



## Ace

SD won the draft, decent roster and no Becky or Charlotte. Both shows honestly aren't anything interesting and we know creative is the same.

AEW on Wednesdays and NJPW will have to suffice.


----------



## xio8ups

a long womens match crreates ratings LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## Not Lying

Mongstyle said:


> This was Meltzer on the fallout from Mania and Lynch:
> 
> 
> 
> People really need to stop pretending like everyone is failing equally. They're not. The rate of decline slowed in 2016 and 2017 compared to how catastrophic 2015 was with Rollins title run from prior years. And the 2018 Mania season did good business with Network growth up and them doing better viewership too in comparison to 2017. Reigns was no Cena but he was far and away better than the rest. That much is evident. The big mistake they made last year was not giving Reigns the belt at Mania and putting Raw into a holding pattern. That 4 month period damaged the brand because they put it into a holding pattern for too long.
> 
> And the collapse WWE experienced starting late 2018 after his cancer was crazy fast. Hell, had he not returned and the Wild Card hadn't been done, I'm confident WWE Raw ratings would've been lower than 2 million right after Mania.
> 
> I mean, we already saw it this year. WWE gave the "over" superstars everything. Becky won the title. Rollins won the title. Kofi won the title. The shows were built around these individuals. But WWE didn't even get a Mania bump this year. There was no bounce back. And business was down on top of it. And immediately after Mania, the decline only accelerated and they were headed straight to sub-2 million for Raw which led to USA Network panicking and telling them to bring Reigns to Raw and they even brought Brock back a few weeks later to help counter it. And it obviously worked, because they went from heading to sub 2-million to floating a few hundred thousand above it. Clearly, being "over" with the live crowd doesn't really give you the whole picture and doesn't mean a whole lot in isolation.
> 
> They may not be big movers, but ultimately the few hundred thousand difference guys like Reigns and Brock can do is obviously significant enough. And it's no accident the product has felt the most dead it ever has this year when the ball has been put in the hands of other superstars who are not doing a good job of carrying it. This'll become more evident in the coming months as Reigns is likely put back in the title picture on Smackdown and becomes a focus of the show rather than being in the midcard for 10 minutes every week like he has since his return. They will almost certainly experience a bounce back after a few months.
> 
> The real question is if Raw can be helped or not since Reigns is on Smackdown as is Brock, and even Bryan and Strowman to a lesser extent who are good supporting faces, while Raw basically has shit-tier star power right now at the top. Orton is long past having any impact and Owens will never be the kind of guy to move things. Styles is a good supporting act but that's his limit. And that's also what Rollins is who the show is built around, and he's already been a disaster this year so there's no logical reason to expect things are going to be any different now. Raw literally lacks a center piece.
> 
> And the biggest mistake WWE made was not trialling someone new in that position. Like Strowman. To see how things go with him. Instead they went to the same old bland well with Rollins, who's been a B player for years already. They missed the timing on that at Crown Jewel last year. Heck, even someone like Balor would've at least been something new just to see if it produces any different results. But they went for the boring option and have paid for it.



This post has much bias in it and so much assumptions thrown around. 



> Reigns was no Cena but he was far and away better than the rest.


Reigns was the company's FOTC and most pushed wrestler not named Brock Lesnar. Ratings were declining and dropping, there is no argument to be made here no? Even after years of strong push, and with some bad booking of course. 




> And the collapse WWE experienced starting late 2018 after his cancer was crazy fast. Hell, had he not returned and the Wild Card hadn't been done, I'm confident WWE Raw ratings would've been lower than 2 million right after Mania.


Indeed. However, as I've given you these facts already, WWE in JULY of 2018 started showing cracks and having these historic lows before Reigns left, there were signs of the rating dropping. Come Oct 2019, with Roman's cancer, WWE getting into bad publicity with the Saudi Arabia shit, burying Strowman and putting the title back on the absentee champion who just had it for 500 freaking days. 



> I mean, we already saw it this year. WWE gave the "over" superstars everything. Becky won the title. Rollins won the title. Kofi won the title. The shows were built around these individuals. But WWE didn't even get a Mania bump this year. There was no bounce back. And business was down on top of it. And immediately after Mania, the decline only accelerated and they were headed straight to sub-2 million for Raw which led to USA Network panicking and telling them to bring Reigns to Raw and they even brought Brock back a few weeks later to help counter it


Here's a few things, not every "over" superstar should get this moment. Kofi was obviously a flash in the pan, but they were so incompetent to building another WM angle, so they went with that, but it was clear the guy ain't cut for the top spot. 

On the Becky subject, and the shit you posted from WM. I don't think anybody was claiming Becky was the reason for the WM main event, what everyone was saying was that the match was happening because they got Ronda this year, wanted to do her vs Flair, but Becky got *HOT, became THE TOP MERCH SELLER, and EARNED* the WM Main event. Instead of it being thrown just there for "herstory".


A few small things to consider: Kofi and Becky were just low-cards a few months earlier than their push, Becky was also put in a horrible angle that most of her fans hated even. I'm sure you would have to admit, all things aside, after their push the past 6 month they have/bigger fanbase and are more established now.



> They may not be big movers, but ultimately the few hundred thousand difference guys like Reigns and Brock can do is obviously significant enough.


yeah bring in a couple of 100-200k die-hard fans of them, but we should all forget about the 1m+ that stopped watching those years while they were the only 2 pushed and protected stars on the roster. 
Plus, I don't see the big difference for Brock now, last SD's show both hours were very close in numbers, hell i think the hour brock wasn't in drew higher. 

I agree with you a bit on the last part. WWE should have tried something different, but The Fiend not Strowman should have won the title. Bray should been the main player and focus, on RAW wrecking shit every week and just doing whatever he wants whenever he wants on the show.

Owens may not be a difference maker, bs he's one of the best options TO TRY, on RAW now. He's the best mic worker they got there I guess.


----------



## raymond1985

No prizes for guessing who had the lowest viewed segment of the night.


----------



## DammitChrist

In other words, the 3rd hour continues to get the lowest viewership compared to the first 2 hours no matter who gets featured in it.

Gee, what blockbuster news that was unveiled there unk2


----------



## raymond1985

DammitC said:


> In other words, the 3rd hour continues to get the lowest viewership compared to the first 2 hours no matter who gets featured in it.
> 
> Gee, what blockbuster news that was unveiled there unk2


1) The final segment of the 3rd hour doesn't always draw the lowest viewership of the night. 

2) Why are you posting in a thread about drawing? You've said that you don't care about drawing.


----------



## Kaworu

The Definition of Technician said:


> Here's a few things, not every "over" superstar should get this moment. Kofi was obviously a flash in the pan, but they were so incompetent to building another WM angle, so they went with that, but it was clear the guy ain't cut for the top spot.


Kofi was more over than Becky heading into WM. He wasn't just a flash in the pan.


----------



## Not Lying

Kaworu said:


> Kofi was more over than Becky heading into WM. He wasn't just a flash in the pan.


clearly he was and half the forum was saying that before he won the title :lmao :lmao


----------



## SPCDRI

The Definition of Technician said:


> clearly he was and half the forum was saying that before he won the title :lmao :lmao


I think Kofi Kingston on the top had a 5 show in a row and 9 shows out of of 11 shows being below 2 million. He was doing bottom 5 live show and house show attendance numbers for Smackdown. They had a PPV where it was him with the title on the line in a cage match and they hardly got 6000 people through the door. Yeah, Seth and others were tanking, too, but Kofi wasn't moving any positive numbers. People only wanted to see the chase and the feel-good attaboy moment at WM. That's it. They didn't want him heavily featured on RAW and Smackdown and rampaging through the upper midcard for half a year. The hard numbers back this up 110 percent. Kofimania was like any other mania, irrational exuberance followed by the bubble bursting.


----------



## Chan Hung

So Flair comes out...the ratings will be okay, then after it's a drop :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW is catching a bit of a break right now as the NFL game is 17-0 in the first quarter. The new Star Wars trailer debuts at halftime so that may be the only draw left in the game.


----------



## rexmundi

I just saw the ratings from last Monday and saw how hour 3 flopped. No rational person can be surprised by this. Mr Hour 3 strikes again. :Cocky The underlying hook of raw was to try and keep viewers tuned in to see seth confronting bray. Well, that failed miserably. wwe should know better than to put him on last as he has had so many epic failures in that spot. So many that I have lost track. Minimum of five. Feature him in hour 1 because he isn't compelling enough to have you tune in later. :Cocky Rollins Ratings Recession is the true story of raw 2019. :Cocky


----------



## Deathiscoming

rexmundi said:


> I just saw the ratings from last Monday and saw how hour 3 flopped. No rational person can be surprised by this. Mr Hour 3 strikes again. :Cocky The underlying hook of raw was to try and keep viewers tuned in to see seth confronting bray. Well, that failed miserably. wwe should know better than to put him on last as he has had so many epic failures in that spot. So many that I have lost track. Minimum of five. Feature him in hour 1 because he isn't compelling enough to have you tune in later. :Cocky Rollins Ratings Recession is the true story of raw 2019. :Cocky


What's with the same Rollins GIF thrice in one post :Rollins2


----------



## Deathiscoming

Ace said:


> SD won the draft, decent roster and no Becky or Charlotte. Both shows honestly aren't anything interesting and we know creative is the same.
> 
> AEW on Wednesdays and NJPW will have to suffice.


And AEW's Omega/Hangman Page vs PAC/Moxley match beats any WWE TV match in recent memory.


----------



## LPPrince

I don't know why anyone cares to shit on a specific wrestler when the ratings drop. Its such a silly reason to hate on someone. The same thing has been happening for literally over ten years now with different people at the top and some of you act like its all down to whoever's positioned at the top at the time when in reality, its all on Vince and whomever has control over whats happening on the program.

The fault's not on Cena, Punk, Bryan, Roman, Seth, Orton, or whoever was at the top. Its Vince. He is the "ratings killer".


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I assume this week will be higher primarily because the NFL game was no contest.


----------



## Jonhern

RAW Ratings 10/21/19- .75 Avg Demo Rating, 2.341 Million Viewers

Steady in terms of the demo last few weeks, probably at their floor.


----------



## Jonhern

Hour 1: .74 / 2,477
Hour 2: .78 / 2,373
Hour 3: .72 / 2,175


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I know it's not going anywhere but Hour 3 is a lost cause.


----------



## DammitChrist

LPPrince said:


> I don't know why anyone cares to shit on a specific wrestler when the ratings drop. Its such a silly reason to hate on someone. The same thing has been happening for literally over ten years now with different people at the top and some of you act like its all down to whoever's positioned at the top at the time when in reality, its all on Vince and whomever has control over whats happening on the program.
> 
> The fault's not on Cena, Punk, Bryan, Roman, Seth, Orton, or whoever was at the top. Its Vince. He is the "ratings killer".


Yep, you made a great point about the downward ratings trend that's been occurring for several years now. That's pretty much what I've been claiming since last year (at least) about the decreasing ratings, but some folks just don't want to listen about Vince actually being the one who's luring away viewers.

Anyway, don't let your whole truthful post here stop the blaming on individual talents along with the shitty Hour 3 nicknames/sarcastic GIFs (that jumped the shark 4 months ago) from getting spammed here every week 8*D


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.477M [10th] | 0.740D [6th]
H2: 2.373M [12th] | 0.780D [5th]
H3: 2.175M [13th] | 0.720D [7th]

3H: 2.342M | 0.747D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.104M | - 4.20% ]
[ + 0.040D | + 5.41% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.198M | - 8.34% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.69% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.302M | - 12.19% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.70% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.063M | + 2.76% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 1.36% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.206M | - 8.08% ]
[ - 0.170D | - 18.54% ]*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The relatively good news is that RAW was #5,6, and 7 on the night. That demo though is a bit lacking for a RAW. That used to be a good demo for Smackdown a while ago. While Hour 3 has occasionally dipped below 2M, the first two are in no danger of that.


----------



## Ace

The mystery of the third man kept ratings above 2m.

Not going to happen again (people believing the hype) with how underwhelming the third man was.


----------



## Zappers

I wonder if the lack of any women match/matches effected the ratings in any way.


----------



## Ace

*WWE RAW RATINGS UP THREE PERCENT AGAINST WEAKER SPORTS COMPETITION*



> Raw, with both a lower rated NFL game and no baseball playoff competition, grew three percent from last week averaging 2.34 million viewers. It also didn't have the bad first-to-third hour drop at the level of last week.
> 
> The first-to-third hour drop of 12 percent is in the normal range as compared to the 21 percent drop last week, which was the eighth largest in history.
> 
> Raw was 11th on cable, trailing assorted news shows on Fox News and MSNBC, football related programming on ESPN, and 90 Day Fiance on TLC.
> 
> *What was notable is that women grew big in hour two, up 22 percent in hour two in 18-49, and more than 40 percent among teenage girls on a show with no women. Men 18-49 declined every hour with a first-to-third hour drop being nine percent, which is usual levels.
> 
> However, with teenagers, boys grew throughout the show and girls had a huge second hour increase and not nearly as big of a third hour drop.*
> 
> The highest rated show on television last night was the New England Patriots vs. New York Jets football game at 10.84 million viewers. The second highest rated was 9-1-1 on FOX, which features Ronda Rousey and drew 6.54 million viewers.
> 
> Raw was down eight percent from the 2.54 million viewers the show did last year on the same Monday, going against comparable television competition.
> 
> The three hours were:
> 
> 8 p.m. 2.48 million viewers
> 9 p.m. 2.37 million viewers
> 10 p.m. 2;18 million viewers


----------



## InexorableJourney

I bet WWE are clinking champagne flutes as we speak


----------



## RainmakerV2

Meh. They're pretty stable.


----------



## Seafort

Again, attendance then ratings are lagging indicators. The former can bounce back more quickly (or collapse faster) than the latter, as TV viewing costs the consumer nothing but time. The show looked TARPed off, so I think attendance is becoming an issue. As for ratings, that is three straight weeks of the most boring, largely listless RAWs since last fall. If Heyman and McMahon book a few more of these in a row, we’ll fall below 2M before December hits.


----------



## ClintDagger

Surprised they didn’t plummet given how bad the shows have been. Would love to see a show with none of the men’s main eventers to see if the ratings stayed stable or fell significantly.



LPPrince said:


> I don't know why anyone cares to shit on a specific wrestler when the ratings drop. Its such a silly reason to hate on someone. The same thing has been happening for literally over ten years now with different people at the top and some of you act like its all down to whoever's positioned at the top at the time when in reality, its all on Vince and whomever has control over whats happening on the program.
> 
> The fault's not on Cena, Punk, Bryan, Roman, Seth, Orton, or whoever was at the top. Its Vince. He is the "ratings killer".


It’s both the talent and the executive management. Vince is the constant. The main event wrestlers are the variable. Vince has always been a detriment to his product. In certain eras the talent has been great enough to overcome Vince’s shortcomings as a creative mind. In recent years the talent has been just as lacking as Vince. To think the wrestlers at the top are immune to any criticism for waning fan interest is asinine. Whenever there’s a milestone show a certain number of lapsed fans come back and if there were any stars to keep them hooked some would stay. But there aren’t any so the numbers immediately regress back to the mean.


----------



## Jonhern

Seafort said:


> Again, attendance then ratings are lagging indicators. The former can bounce back more quickly (or collapse faster) than the latter, as TV viewing costs the consumer nothing but time. The show looked TARPed off, so I think attendance is becoming an issue. As for ratings, that is three straight weeks of the most boring, largely listless RAWs since last fall. If Heyman and McMahon book a few more of these in a row, we’ll fall below 2M before December hits.


Attendance doesn't really matter that much to them anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they just paper the house more if it gets too bad that it becomes very noticeable on TV. They make more than enough for each tv taping to actually just let everyone in for free and still make a big profit, that's how big these new contracts are, which is how most tv show with a live audience work, they don't charge for tickets.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Kind of interesting that this RAW did relatively well, and it held up in viewership and there were no women's segments, something to look at.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Uhh the ratings were still shit. SD barely gets above that. Both crap. Scripted shows get three times the viewers weekly


----------



## llj

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Kind of interesting that this RAW did relatively well, and it held up in viewership and there were no women's segments, something to look at.


NFL had a complete blowout yesterday, I believe (last week had a tight one in the end) and generally, the women aren't needle movers anyway. Then again most of the men today aren't either.

It was a boring anemic RAW rating for a boring anemic monday on TV. Not catastrophic but nothing to celebrate either.


----------



## SPCDRI

llj said:


> NFL had a complete blowout yesterday, I believe (last week had a tight one in the end) and generally, the women aren't needle movers anyway. Then again most of the men today aren't either.
> 
> It was a boring anemic RAW rating for a boring anemic monday on TV. Not catastrophic but nothing to celebrate either.


Last week was Packers/Lions in a controversial barnburner that was vital to the NFC North race and had major NFC playoff implications. 

Last night's game was Patriots as a prohibitive, monster favorite and they quickly turned the game into a 17-0 affair at the end of the first quarter en route to a 33-0 game. Literally the only intriguing things were how many times Darnold was gonna get picked off and if the Patriots could pitch the shutout. The game was the worst NFL game of the week by a mile. 

I still don't know how much crossover there is, but that game stunk on ice and bailed RAW out.


----------



## Seafort

Jonhern said:


> Seafort said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, attendance then ratings are lagging indicators. The former can bounce back more quickly (or collapse faster) than the latter, as TV viewing costs the consumer nothing but time. The show looked TARPed off, so I think attendance is becoming an issue. As for ratings, that is three straight weeks of the most boring, largely listless RAWs since last fall. If Heyman and McMahon book a few more of these in a row, we’ll fall below 2M before December hits.
> 
> 
> 
> Attendance doesn't really matter that much to them anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they just paper the house more if it gets too bad that it becomes very noticeable on TV. They make more than enough for each tv taping to actually just let everyone in for free and still make a big profit, that's how big these new contracts are, which is how most tv show with a live audience work, they don't charge for tickets.
Click to expand...

Good point, but there is no way WWE is going to comp a basketball arena for 52 straight weeks on RAW and Smackdown. That could work with an NXT or Impact sized venue. I would have a hard time imaging WWE running those sort of expenses without any ticket revenue.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Kind of interesting that this RAW did relatively well, and it held up in viewership and there were no women's segments, something to look at.


This will piss some people off and they will unnecessarily take it personally, but in everything I’ve seen the women only impact the ratings in two ways: not at all or negatively.


----------



## Deathiscoming

So people tend to stick around and are excited by the prospect of seeing Humberto Carillo, Street Profits and who their mystery partner will be over seeing women's tag teams in the main event? Who would've thought :Rollins :Brock


----------



## Deathiscoming

Zappers said:


> I wonder if the lack of any women match/matches effected the ratings in any way.


Not sure it affected the ratings but it did piss some folks off. "No women's matches!? How dare you WWE! This is your women's revolution!" :brock4 :maury


----------



## Not Lying

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Kind of interesting that this RAW did relatively well, and it held up in viewership and there were no women's segments, something to look at.


If the women were such anti-draw and bringing were the ratings down wouldn't you expect an increase? it didn't happen. Meaning none of the men were better draw than the women. 

I love how we're all supposed to ignore Cain and Lesnar feuding for the WWE title and BOMBING HARD in ratings. If these mfers had a rating increase, the size/legit/muscle fetish geeks would be all over the place.


----------



## SPCDRI

The Definition of Technician said:


> If the women were such anti-draw and bringing were the ratings down wouldn't you expect an increase? it didn't happen. Meaning none of the men were better draw than the women.
> 
> I love how we're all supposed to ignore Cain and Lesnar feuding for the WWE title and BOMBING HARD in ratings. If these mfers had a rating increase, the size/legit/muscle fetish geeks would be all over the place.


It did happen. It opened lower for a mcintyre/ricochet match as opposed to a becky/charlotte match, but it stayed higher and ended 300,000 viewers higher than last week did and the overall viewership of the show was actually up 3 percent. The viewership for this hour 3 was higher than last week's hour 3 by about 15 percent.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> If the women were such anti-draw and bringing were the ratings down wouldn't you expect an increase? it didn't happen. Meaning none of the men were better draw than the women.
> 
> I love how we're all supposed to ignore Cain and Lesnar feuding for the WWE title and BOMBING HARD in ratings. If these mfers had a rating increase, the size/legit/muscle fetish geeks would be all over the place.


They did go up and the show was awful. I was expecting absolutely horrid ratings especially in H3.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> They did go up and the show was awful. I was expecting absolutely horrid ratings especially in H3.


Lol. They went up 3% against weaker competition. I won’t get into it with the weaker competition effect, but if 3% is the difference then :lmao :lmao you all got proven dead wrong.


----------



## Jonhern

Seafort said:


> Good point, but there is no way WWE is going to comp a basketball arena for 52 straight weeks on RAW and Smackdown. That could work with an NXT or Impact sized venue. I would have a hard time imaging WWE running those sort of expenses without any ticket revenue.


That was an extreme scenario I was talking about, but they would still be profitable if they gave every ticket away. They were profitable before these contracts and now are making what 4 or 5 times more per show just in tv revenue while production costs have only gone up because they added pyro back, not much else has changed. Obviously they would never do that, just saying they could if they wanted to, but they would never give up that added revenue. But I could definitely see them giving away more comp tickets to fill up the arenas a bit more like the reports of them doing it for that PPV in Tacoma. They are holding the event regardless because they need to do the tv show, and they can't really switch to smaller places because their production crew and set are so big. So those are sunk costs, giving away a couple of thousand tickets brings in people to buy merch and concessions, which they probably get a percentage of, that wouldn't be there otherwise.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. They went up 3% against weaker competition. I won’t get into it with the weaker competition effect, but if 3% is the difference then :lmao :lmao you all got proven dead wrong.


I’m not talking about the overall although it’s a hell of a stretch to say going up 3% over a draft episode is “proven wrong”. Nobody expected this show to do anything but go down given how bad it was, how bad it’s been, and not being a draft episode; and anyone who says otherwise is being intellectually dishonest. The fact it started down proves there was much less interest in this show yet somehow they did a much better job of retaining viewers.

I’m talking about the difference in H3 which at +9% surprised the hell out of me. I was certain that H3 would be lower than last week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Definition of Technician said:


> If the women were such anti-draw and bringing were the ratings down wouldn't you expect an increase? it didn't happen. Meaning none of the men were better draw than the women.


You can't expect a ratings increase because of something that wasn't promoted, in the case of judging a show where nothing is promoted, it's better to look at audience retention.

Nonetheless, it's just one week, but the women being promoted as the main attraction for Smackdown last fall bombed the ratings, and the RTWM was weak in ratings as well.

And as far as Cain and Brock, I'm not one to use YT views as a barometer all the time, but Cain's videos are so ridiculously above everyone else's, to the point you have to give him some credit.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> I’m not talking about the overall although it’s a hell of a stretch to say going up 3% over a draft episode is “proven wrong”. Nobody expected this show to do anything but go down given how bad it was, how bad it’s been, and not being a draft episode; and anyone who says otherwise is being intellectually dishonest. The fact it started down proves there was much less interest in this show yet somehow they did a much better job of retaining viewers.
> 
> I’m talking about the difference in H3 which at +9% surprised the hell out of me. I was certain that H3 would be lower than last week.


3% over a draft episode no one gave a fuck about and a terrible show, and with weaker competition (which u conveniently left out). the 3rd hour down was similar to most ones and not as catastrophic as the past week. Plus, OF COURSE, the WWE Champion and AJ Styles/KO are going to draw more than women tag match between women barely promoted or on TV (NATALYA ASUKA KAIRI LACEY) jesus fpalm. 




The Inbred Goatman said:


> *You can't expect a ratings increase because of something that wasn't promoted*, in the case of judging a show where nothing is promoted, it's better to look at audience retention.
> 
> Nonetheless, it's just one week, but the women being promoted as the main attraction for Smackdown last fall bombed the ratings, and the RTWM was weak in ratings as well.
> 
> And as far as Cain and Brock, I'm not one to use *YT views* as a barometer all the time, but Cain's videos are so ridiculously above everyone else's, to the point you have to give him some credit.


I can't? that's what everyone does :lol. It also didn't draw well after the SD Fox debut 

If Cain is a draw because some UFC fans or mexicans looking for a mexican star in WWE are watching the videos on youtube that doesn't translate to money (that much).


----------



## WindPhoenix

A shitty football game that became a blowout is the reason why the rating went up.


----------



## xio8ups

3% lol


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> 3% over a draft episode no one gave a fuck about and a terrible show, and with weaker competition (which u conveniently left out). the 3rd hour down was similar to most ones and not as catastrophic as the past week. Plus, OF COURSE, the WWE Champion and AJ Styles/KO are going to draw more than women tag match between women barely promoted or on TV (NATALYA ASUKA KAIRI LACEY) jesus fpalm.


I think you are speaking from a place of emotion whereas I’m just looking at the data and analyzing it as best I can. Besides, I think you are misunderstanding my position. I’m not saying the rating increased because no women were on the show. I think if they had their normal complement of women’s segments the rating would have been the exact same. Just like if the rating goes down next week I’m not going to blame women being on the show. I’m just pointing out that you can take the women out of the equation and it won’t hurt the rating. The only thing that brings eyeballs to wwe are teases of a return, title matches, and the big stars like Rock & Austin. For the most part everything else is neutral.

As far as women’s wrestling being an anti-draw, I don’t personally believe that women’s wrestling is an anti-draw in and of itself. As long as you slot it in the lower or mid card the audience will accept it like the rest of the filler stuff WWE puts out there. It only has a tune out factor when you build a show around it and ask too much of it. And as far as competition goes, I’m just of the mind that wwe isn’t as impacted by that as they used to be. I think the post nfl trend early this year proved that.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*"The Flair/McIntyre promo opened at 2,442,000 viewers. The Street Profits vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson closed at 2,129,000 viewers. In the segment-by-segment, McIntyre vs. Ricochet gained 203,000 viewers to 2,645,000 viewers which was the high point of the show. Aleister Black vs. Jason Reynolds lost 277,000 viewers. The Jerry Lawler segment with Rusev and Lana & Lashley gained 33,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Sin Cara lost 24,000 viewers. The R-Truth vs. Sunil Singh and beginning of Viking Raiders vs. Curt Hawkins & Zack Ryder lost 47,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Hawkins & Ryder finish plus Lashley and Rusev in the restaurant and beginning of the Rey Mysterio promo gained 54,000 viewers. The Mysterio promo, Shelton Benjamin and Cain Velasquez lost 36,000 viewers. Seth Rollins vs. Humberto Carrillo lost 155,000 viewers. I noted that you do segments introducing new talent in competitive matches and you will likely lose viewers, but it’s stuff that you have to do. It’s the same thing that happened with Chris Jericho and Darby Allin. The low point on the show was R-Truth trying to win the 24/7 title back which lost 165,000 viewers to 2,028,000. The Gallows & Anderson vs. Street Profits main event gained 101,000 viewers."
*


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> Just like if the rating goes down next week I’m not going to blame women being on the show. I’m just pointing out that you can take the women out of the equation and it won’t hurt the rating. The only thing that brings eyeballs to wwe are teases of a return, title matches, and the big stars like Rock & Austin. For the most part everything else is neutral.
> 
> As far as women’s wrestling being an anti-draw, I don’t personally believe that women’s wrestling is an anti-draw in and of itself. As long as you slot it in the lower or mid card the audience will accept it like the rest of the filler stuff WWE puts out there. It only has a tune out factor when you build a show around it and ask too much of it. And as far as competition goes, I’m just of the mind that wwe isn’t as impacted by that as they used to be. I think the post nfl trend early this year proved that.


I know that's what you are trying to do but you're not being objective here and I don't think you realize it. I don't see anything to see women wrestling draw, especially that's been taken for seriously for like 2 years now when the average viewer that's been watching for 2 decades has been conditioned not to give a shit about it. The fact they are not-anti draw is an accomplishment in itself. The problem I see is when you flat out claim there won't be any female stars or draws in WWE ever, and it's futile to attempt it, when if they aren't anti-draws the show would be better. 
The show has never really been built around the women except for like 2-3 weeks after the Rumble, I know remember the first night had a rating drop and people decited to blame the women DESPITE THE FACT the show wasn't build around the women, and it was announced earlier that Becky would be appearing on SD to make her decision. Yet it got TONS more hype in 4min promo that whatever 15min beatdown Brock did to Seth. Then, the next couple of weeks the show was indeed centered around women, but you don't into consideration that most Becky fans DID NOT want to see Steph/HHH involved, the stupid knee injury, and a lot of shit that happened in that storyline.
Again, centering the show around the women in itself is a bad idea for now, but they should try again if someone gets hot like Becky did last year, and they should do it better and do a storyline people actually want to see. Also, it was literally only 2 RAWs, that's a very small sample to chose from.


----------



## InexorableJourney

> Seth Rollins lost 155,000 viewers


----------



## ellthom

According to the observer Raw drew 3.000 viewers this week... HAHA UK doesn't have time for WWE's shit xD

Impact drew in more viewers


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*WWE Raw Draws Only 3,000 Viewers In UK This Week:

WWE Raw is not drawing well in the UK at the moment. A writeup in this week's edition of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter sheds new light on the extent of WWE's TV woes in the UK. Raw and SmackDown's British numbers aren't always circulated in wrestling media so this makes for some interesting reading.

Per the report, the 14 October Raw drew 38,000, down 10,000 from the previous week's show featuring Tyson Fury, who is a huge star in his home country. The 18 October SmackDown compelled 23,000 to tune in. Then, on 21 October, Raw drew just 3,000 viewers.

3,000. That is not an error.

This number is so low that Meltzer claims "people thought it was a computer glitch," but the data has since been confirmed legitimate. Naturally, people within WWE and Sky (their broadcaster) are stunned.

For context, Impact wrestling's 18 October episode had 77,000 viewers in the United Kingdom, which is approximately ten times their usual average in the US. AEW Dynamite, meanwhile, did a whopping 232,000 on ITV on 14 October.

The Impact and AEW shows are admittedly shown in friendlier timeslots, with Raw and SmackDown typically going out live at 1am. Regardless, that 3,000 on 21 Oct. is astounding.*

*Source:* http://whatculture.com/wwe/wwe-raw-draws-only-3-000-viewers-in-uk-this-week


----------



## LPPrince

rofl


----------



## DeeGirl

Only a lunatic or someone with nothing to get up for on a Tuesday morning would stay up to 4am to watch Raw. Apart from Rollins the whole show is garbage.


----------



## Jonhern

RAW Rating: .72 Demo/ 2.13 Million viewers 10/28/19


----------



## llj

I wonder if Smackdown does below 2m, going by this RAW rating. Looks like WWE is in for another bad fall decline where they permanently lose viewers again.


----------



## Frost99

Jonhern said:


> RAW Rating: .72 Demo/ *2.13 Million viewers *10/28/19


----------



## Chris90




----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RAW is dead.:heston

That Hour 3 rating with Lana and Lashley. :lmao


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Under 2M again in hour 3. Demo did .79, .72 and .65

Wonder how it did in the UK?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.326M [4th] | 0.790D [12th]
H2: 2.146M [6th] | 0.720D [14th]
H3: 1.928M [7th] | 0.650D [16th]

3H: 2.133M | 0.720D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.180M | - 7.74% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 8.86% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.218M | - 10.16% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 9.72% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.398M | - 17.11% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 17.72% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.209M | - 8.92% ]
[ - 0.027D | - 3.61% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.338M | - 13.71% ]
[ - 0.160D | - 18.18% ]*


----------



## shadows123

2,13 ...ROFLMAO... Fox with King Corbin vs Roman Reigns as their promoted match .. gonna be a fun week for FOX :vince$

On a side note, Will AEW beat WWE in the demos this week? Considering Raw is treading close to that number!


----------



## Ace

Tbf they didn't drop that much for the third hour and retained quite well for the second and third hour. 

They just started really weak though and this is still a terrible number.

Next week the MNF game is Cowboys vs Giants, so they will fall under 2m I imagine.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Dropping substantially in year to year. :clap On the bright side, I can't see them dropping by the same amount next year. :bryanlol


----------



## The XL 2

Raw is about to drop under 2 mil and Smackdown just did under 1 mil and will almost certainly do under 2 mil this week. The WWE is on life support, the guaranteed money is saving them but they have a rapidly declining fanbase. They're less than half as popular as they were 5-10 years ago


----------



## SPCDRI

Hallelujah to the cuckshit tanking total viewership.
Look at how badly they got murdered in 18-34 again.
Viewership down 16.3% year over year overall, but down over 26 percent with 18-34.
The hip money demographic doesn't want to watch this shit. You'd have to pay them to watch Seth Rollins/Rowan matches and cuckold angles, lmfao.
They're probably down 50 percent with the 18-34 audience in the last 3, 4 years. That's why AEW exists more than any amount of wrestlers leaving or whatever. 
Tony "Generous Allowance" Khan saw two market vulnerabilities (18-34, irrelevant tag teaming) and pounced.


----------



## The XL 2

Raw and Smackdown combined for 3 million. Just lol


----------



## SPCDRI

The XL 2 said:


> Raw and Smackdown combined for 3 million. Just lol


RAW alone about 5 years ago could have 3 million for all 3 hours. They didn't need anniversary episodes, McMahon appearances, rolling out the geezers, go home and back home shows to big 4 PPVs, none of that. Just a run of the mill RAW would do 3 million all 3 hours. RAW and NXT put together barely hit 3 million, that's ridiculous.


----------



## Whysoserious?

Cuck stuff doesn’t draw ? What a shocker :lol


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*10/31/16 RAW Viewership: 2.600
10/30/17 RAW Viewership: 2.854
10/29/18 RAW Viewership: 2.472
10/28/19 RAW Viewership: 2.133*


----------



## Mongstyle

People blaming the cuckold story are missing the bigger picture here. That's a midcard angle between a bunch of midcarders. Raw is starting off with bad numbers. This time last year, they did a first hour of 2.7+ million. This year they did 2.3 million. They have a shit start which is why the drops hurt even more. The second, and third hour especially, are generally gonna decline. But that decline is gonna hurt real bad when you're starting off so poorly.

Frankly, I'm not surprised. And I don't see why anyone would be either. I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but coming out of Wrestlemania, Raw was cratering and was going to enter viewership numbers below 2 million. It was the reason behind them doing the Wild Card. Why should anyone be surprised that this is now happening? Coming out of the draft, the situation is basically the same as it was coming out of Mania. The show is built around Seth and Becky, and nothing else of consequence has changed or happened really.

Naturally, things are gonna taper off in a couple weeks, and they'll be right back to heading where they were post-Mania. It just seems to have happened 2 or 3 weeks earlier than expected. But what exactly is there to be excited about on Raw? It's the same old shit and the people at the top simply don't generate the necessary attention or interest. They're bleeding viewers.

As many people may have hated the Wild Card online, it gave Raw much needed star power which allowed them to stop the bleeding, but now we're back to where we were. The more interesting story with Raw ratings is going to be Wrestlemania season next year. Are they going to bounce back and recover at all? Will they get the Wrestlemania season bump (they always used to but didn't in 2019)? That's really going to be telling. If Raw doesn't recover strongly in early 2020, that'll be a clear sign they turned off a lot of people this year from the product.


----------



## Seafort

The XL 2 said:


> Raw is about to drop under 2 mil and Smackdown just did under 1 mil and will almost certainly do under 2 mil this week. The WWE is on life support, the guaranteed money is saving them but they have a rapidly declining fanbase. They're less than half as popular as they were 5-10 years ago


As I said last week...ratings are a lagging indicator and WWE booked three consecutive Worst of the Year RAWs.


----------



## Zappers

Mongstyle said:


> People blaming the cuckold story are missing the bigger picture here. That's a midcard angle between a bunch of midcarders. Raw is starting off with bad numbers. This time last year, they did a first hour of 2.7+ million. This year they did 2.3 million. They have a shit start which is why the drops hurt even more. The second, and third hour especially, are generally gonna decline. But that decline is gonna hurt real bad when you're starting off so poorly.
> 
> Frankly, I'm not surprised. And I don't see why anyone would be either. I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but coming out of Wrestlemania, Raw was cratering and was going to enter viewership numbers below 2 million. It was the reason behind them doing the Wild Card. Why should anyone be surprised that this is now happening? Coming out of the draft, the situation is basically the same as it was coming out of Mania. The show is built around Seth and Becky, and nothing else of consequence has changed or happened really.
> 
> Naturally, things are gonna taper off in a couple weeks, and they'll be right back to heading where they were post-Mania. It just seems to have happened 2 or 3 weeks earlier than expected. But what exactly is there to be excited about on Raw? It's the same old shit and the people at the top simply don't generate the necessary attention or interest. They're bleeding viewers.
> 
> *As many people may have hated the Wild Card online, it gave Raw much needed star power which allowed them to stop the bleeding, but now we're back to where we were. *The more interesting story with Raw ratings is going to be Wrestlemania season next year. Are they going to bounce back and recover at all? Will they get the Wrestlemania season bump (they always used to but didn't in 2019)? That's really going to be telling. If Raw doesn't recover strongly in early 2020, that'll be a clear sign they turned off a lot of people this year from the product.


Right now. Who on SD is considered "much needed star power" to give RAW the boost they need?

Also, I think the 3 hour timeslot is getting too tough to fill out. They needed to go back to 2 hours a few years ago. Just go 8:00 -10:00pm.. One thing people never bring up is how many younger kids are staying up past 10:00pm on a school night? Plus, this isn't the 90's. No kid is begging mom and dad to stay up to see Rusev like they did with Steve Austin.


----------



## Jonhern

shadows123 said:


> 2,13 ...ROFLMAO... Fox with King Corbin vs Roman Reigns as their promoted match .. gonna be a fun week for FOX :vince$
> 
> On a side note, Will AEW beat WWE in the demos this week? Considering Raw is treading close to that number!


They would have to do better than the debut and might have game 7 at the same time so not likely.


----------



## Erramayhem89

The product is so terrible. RAW is literally the worst WWE show i've ever seen. 2019 is the worst year. SD isn't much better, it's just shorter which means less suffering. 

I mean seriously RAW has nobody. The first 2 hours were fuking atricious.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Vince McMahon is the best promoter in the history of wrestling. Why the hell doesn't he promote anymore, instead of producing these increasingly lame shows.


----------



## wrestlingfann

Crazy how just 3-4 years ago 3.5 million would be considered low. Now they get lucky if they get over 2.5 million.


----------



## Rozzop

The 18-34 male demographic has tanked
Nobody is watching. 

When you load the show with women and feminise the men, what do you expect?


----------



## Swindle

Rozzop said:


> The 18-34 male demographic has tanked
> Nobody is watching.
> 
> When you load the show with women and feminise the men, what do you expect?


So, get woke, go broke?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

"RUSEV THE DRAW!!!1111!!!!!! HE MAKES EVERYTHING HE DOES WORK1111!!!!!11"

Between that and *888K* (A number that will live in infamy FOREVER, it's been another great week.)


----------



## ClintDagger

Rozzop said:


> The 18-34 male demographic has tanked
> Nobody is watching.
> 
> When you load the show with women and feminise the men, what do you expect?


I was dumbfounded with how they started the show. It’s basically begging 20% of the audience to bail. They were up against a horrid MNF matchup. You’d think they’d do something appealing to casuals but clearly they are clueless right now.


----------



## Chan Hung

Attendance is tanking, Ratings are tanking. Correction here. They are in trouble. Raw has been shit and was utter shit Monday. Rating barely over 2 million and on track to soon be In the 1.9 area
:maury


----------



## Whysoserious?

Chan Hung said:


> Attendance is tanking, Ratings are tanking. Correction here. They are in trouble. Raw has been shit and was utter shit Monday. Rating barely over 2 million and on track to soon be In the 1.9 area
> :maury


So when does Heyman get fired ? :lol


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

I think next week they will debut the brand NEW...



[email protected]! [email protected]


----------



## Chan Hung

Whysoserious? said:


> Chan Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> Attendance is tanking, Ratings are tanking. Correction here. They are in trouble. Raw has been shit and was utter shit Monday. Rating barely over 2 million and on track to soon be In the 1.9 area
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/jxUF01M.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Maury" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> So when does Heyman get fired ? <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

He should be next. Mr. Murphy, Sin Cara and Cedric sure as fuck aren't draws
:lol


----------



## Chan Hung

BrokenFreakingNeck said:


> I think next week they will debut the brand NEW...
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]! [email protected]


Yep!!! Brand Split to end after it just began!!
:russo


----------



## Seafort

Chan Hung said:


> BrokenFreakingNeck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think next week they will debut the brand NEW...
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]! [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> Yep!!! Brand Split to end after it just began!!
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/IDPi8.png" border="0" alt="" title="Russo" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Have the wrestlers “go on strike” and demand free agency

Have David Otunga represent multiple wrestlers before a “judge”

Lawsuit is won...WWE wrestlers are free to go to any and all brands (within the WWE Universe) that they wish. WWE issues kayfabe press release disputing the decision but promises not to appeal.

Lesnar and Reigns appear on next RAW, Brazler and Rollins on Smackdown, and Strowman and Charlotte on NXT.


----------



## Chan Hung

Maybe they should have let the company Brazzers to book their matches LOL


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

The Rusev shit drew big on social media and youtube.

Just seems nobody wanted to sit through 3 hours of crap for it.


----------



## virus21

How long before the future endeavors start?


----------



## Strike Force

The fans are like abused spouses, finally leaving after years of mistreatment. 

WWE asked for this. They begged for it! They’ve begged for it ever since they positioned the McMahons as the evil, all-powerful villains to be hated. 

And if the McMahons are synonymous with the promotion, then the promotion should be hated. 

And if there is a star that has clearly been picked by the promotion, then if the promotion is to be hated, that hero is to be hated. 

And if the person positioned as the hero is hated, we have a story with no hero.

And if a story has no hero, no one has a reason to watch it.


----------



## Jet_420

SPCDRI said:


> Hallelujah to the cuckshit tanking total viewership.
> Look at how badly they got murdered in 18-34 again.
> Viewership down 16.3% year over year overall, but down over 26 percent with 18-34.
> The hip money demographic doesn't want to watch this shit. You'd have to pay them to watch Seth Rollins/Rowan matches and cuckold angles, lmfao.
> They're probably down 50 percent with the 18-34 audience in the last 3, 4 years. That's why AEW exists more than any amount of wrestlers leaving or whatever.
> Tony "Generous Allowance" Khan saw two market vulnerabilities (18-34, irrelevant tag teaming) and pounced.


Yes it's tanking, But it won't stop Vince from shoving it down our throats. Probably thinking lets move it to hour 2 so it bleeds into hour three. I want this couple destroyed on live television because she's to good to be with a man like that.


----------



## Undi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1189859996990889989


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Becky!!!!!!!!! Biggest draw on RAWroud :beckylol


----------



## Ace

Becky a draw lol?

It was the first hr, get a grip.

As if that first hr number wasn't piss weak and one of the worst they've had in a while - they were up against a dud MNF game as well.


----------



## Undi

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Becky!!!!!!!!! Biggest draw on RAWroud :beckylol


Welp, according to Becky she's one of the few who "gains audience" with respect to ratings. Meltzer also mentioned some time ago: "_I’ve been told Ronda Rousey and Becky Lynch do very well in the quarter hour ratings, the best of anyone."_

Amazing what additional insight one can glean with actual quarterly and minute-by-minute ratings breakdowns rather than uneducated guesses from random internet wrestling fans.

"Ratings are down?! This must be <insert any wrestler I dislike even if they only appeared for 10 minutes of a three hour show>'s fault!"
:lmao


----------



## The Boy Wonder

6.9 Million Views?


----------



## Jet_420

The Boy Wonder said:


> 6.9 Million Views?


Not really surprised with the views of that segment. Considering the traffic it gets on you tube plus all the hot linking that video gets, Because it's probably getting shared on twitter, facebook, wrestling forums, tumblr, wrestling news sites, and various other social media platforms.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am curious to see just how much interest the NXT invasion sparked. Today's and Wednesday's NXT rating should prove quite illuminating.


----------



## Garty

Jet_420 said:


> Not really surprised with the views of that segment. Considering the traffic it gets on you tube plus all the hot linking that video gets, Because it's probably getting shared on twitter, facebook, wrestling forums, tumblr, wrestling news sites, and various other social media platforms.


It always makes me laugh when WWE spouts that they have over 1 billion fans across all of their online platforms and claiming that they have more fans than "insert team/league here". It's so obvious and I'm sure you could go through line-by-line and name-by-name, to see that it's the exact same people on each individual social media platform added together, to have "over 1 billion" followers.


----------



## Chan Hung

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I am curious to see just how much interest the NXT invasion sparked. Today's and Wednesday's NXT rating should prove quite illuminating.


Same


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.351M [11th] | 0.830D [4th]
H2: 2.207M [12th] | 0.790D [5th]
H3: 1.849M [14th] | 0.650D [6th]

3H: 2.136M | 0.757D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.144M | - 6.13% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 4.82% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.358M | - 16.22% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 17.72% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.502M | - 21.35% ]
[ - 0.180D | - 21.69% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.003M | + 0.14% ]
[ + 0.037D | + 5.14% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.305M | - 12.49% ]
[ - 0.086D | - 10.20% ]*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

:heston

Hour 3 must be an all time low. :O

NXT rejected. :sodone


----------



## rbl85

There was no NXT during the first hour right ?


----------



## The XL 2

I guess the vanilla midget invasion didnt save Raw.


----------



## Ace

That third hour :ha

Sucks they didn't do sub 2m, this was the game it was going to happen in.

Brock-Rey saved them from that.


----------



## Zappers

Deserving ratings. That's what they get for not following through on what SD did. Apart from the Lesnar stuff. It was a poorly written show. The NXT "invasion" was non existent. Especially that lame Becky/Shayna talking tough segment. What a joke that was. Shayna should have come out to the ring during a Becky promo, and destroyed her on live TV. Cowards. Keep booking Becky as godmode, that's what you get. Next time learn.


----------



## llj

So much for the NXT invasion being a hot angle. Somebody buy out this company already.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Obviously the NFL took a big bite out of this one but it doesn't make this less brutal. In all honesty, the show wasn't very good and NXT was not made to look strong at all.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole


----------



## Zappers

Explain to me how Io Shirai didn't show up to crack Asuka and Kari's heads together? That would have pulled in a 4.0 rating. LOL


----------



## Zappers

RubberbandGoat said:


> Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole


Actually Cole shouldn't have been there either. He did his job on SD. That's was special. No need to cheapen the moment from three days prior. They could have used someone else from NXT.


----------



## llj

This company needs to rethink everything they're doing right now. From the top pushed people to the creative staff to production. EVERYTHING.


----------



## rbl85

Zappers said:


> Explain to me how Io Shirai didn't show up to crack Asuka and Kari's heads together? That would have pulled in a 4.0 rating. LOL


I still don't understand why they didn't make Io, Asuka and Kairi interact when the KW had their match in NXT last week….


----------



## Chan Hung

1.89 m 3rd hour 
:maury


----------



## The XL 2

I mean, look at the Undisputed Era. Who the fuck could take them seriously?


----------



## ClintDagger

That third hour was nothing but casual viewer repellent. I knew it was going to be ugly.


----------



## Chan Hung

RubberbandGoat said:


> Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole


This. But u mean replace cole N maybe seth


----------



## Mongstyle

No one cares about NXT.

Smackdown didn't bounce back because of that. Most fans tuning in won't have even known that most of the stars were stuck in Saudi. They tuned in because it's Smackdown and the expectation of seeing its stars.

It's why expecting them to help Raw makes no sense. NXT is viewed by less than 30% of the WWE audience. It's literally the most hardcore fans. They're not on Raw and Smackdown to help these shows. They're there to be helped so more people see them and tune in to NXT.

Raw is certified B show now. Weak star power. Stale upper card. Even Brock coming back to it doesn't seem like it will help much.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mongstyle said:


> No one cares about NXT.
> 
> Smackdown didn't bounce back because of that. Most fans tuning in won't have even known that most of the stars were stuck in Saudi. They tuned in because it's Smackdown and the expectation of seeing its stars.
> 
> It's why expecting them to help Raw makes no sense. NXT is viewed by less than 30% of the WWE audience. It's literally the most hardcore fans. They're not on Raw and Smackdown to help these shows. They're there to be helped so more people see them and tune in to NXT.
> 
> Raw is certified B show now. Weak star power. Stale upper card. Even Brock coming back to it doesn't seem like it will help much.


Also I’m sure SD viewers wanted to see the title change fallout and didn’t know they wouldn’t get it.

And yes Raw is the clear cut B show. Why people were trying to argue otherwise is mind boggling to me.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> I still don't understand why they didn't make Io, Asuka and Kairi interact when the KW had their match in NXT last week….



because they're all heels and on different brands and there's no immediate reason to put them in an angle together right now? I knew they wouldn't because this isn't about wrestling geek crossovers.


----------



## Ace

RubberbandGoat said:


> Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole


Not like Cole-Bryan drew, the 2nd hr was down and that hasn't been the case for SD.


----------



## Zappers

rbl85 said:


> I still don't understand why they didn't make Io, Asuka and Kairi interact when the KW had their match in NXT last week….


Right. Match ended, and they just rolled out and disappeared among the run ins.


----------



## tallmak

Tbh, the second half of the show was falling flat. The first half was pretty good but with OC having a match against Humberto/Street Profits and the terrible Bobby Lashley groin segment people just got bored. And I think time change has something to do with it too.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ace said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole
> 
> 
> 
> Not like Cole-Bryan drew, the 2nd hr was down and that hasn't been the case for SD.
Click to expand...

it did very well. The show gained 1.7 million from the awful 800,000 number the week before. So it improved the show. Nice try!


----------



## Mongstyle

ClintDagger said:


> Also I’m sure SD viewers wanted to see the title change fallout and didn’t know they wouldn’t get it.


Yes, that too.

Technically it was the post-PPV show. Usually Raw gets that, but in this instance Smackdown was the first show after so there would've been interest in the title change from the night before.

The worst thing for Raw is the lead in. They need to start strong. And 2.3 million is not strong enough. It's just an example of them having turned off a lot of people this year.

I think we will see a viewership average below 2 million soon enough. Certainly before this year is over.


----------



## Ace

RubberbandGoat said:


> it did very well. The show gained 1.7 million from the awful 800,000 number the week before. So it improved the show. Nice try!


The second hour of SD WITH the actual match dropped. They built for the match throughout the show and the second hr was still lower fpalm

So far SDs second hour has been its most watched hr.

IDK whether there was a game on or whether people just don't want to see Cole in that spot. This is 2 main events which he's been in which haven't done well in the last 4 days.


----------



## Zappers

Mongstyle said:


> No one cares about NXT.
> 
> Smackdown didn't bounce back because of that. Most fans tuning in won't have even known that most of the stars were stuck in Saudi. They tuned in because it's Smackdown and the expectation of seeing its stars.
> 
> It's why expecting them to help Raw makes no sense. NXT is viewed by less than 30% of the WWE audience. It's literally the most hardcore fans. They're not on Raw and Smackdown to help these shows. They're there to be helped so more people see them and tune in to NXT.
> 
> Raw is certified B show now. Weak star power. Stale upper card. Even Brock coming back to it doesn't seem like it will help much.


Right. But at least SD was interesting. They revealed the matches and Miz interview change, etc.. at the start of the show. The NXT stuff was a surprise. I would assume people tuned into RAW for some more "surprises". Well non of that happened. It's as if SD never happened. people probably started tuning out especially after the Becky taped segment. I might be in the minority, but I was looking for Becky or at the very least one RAW woman get jumped/attack on RAW. None of that happened. Most consistent thing that carried over from SD was Lesnar. Those two segments delivered imho.


----------



## Ace

tallmak said:


> Tbh, the second half of the show was falling flat. The first half was pretty good but with OC having a match against Humberto/Street Profits and the terrible Bobby Lashley groin segment people just got bored. And I think time change has something to do with it too.


I knew they were fucked during the OC/Street Profits segment.

Generic tag match 1,009,000,000 followed by a main event title match with 10 mins left on the show.


----------



## llj

They can't or won't make stars. Rollins as top babyface has become a disaster and they had to get the title off him to get the backlash off. Nobody cares about Brock anymore. Guys who used to matter, like AJ and Orton, don't matter anymore. Everyone else on RAW are geeks from months or years of bad booking. Their top angle for the past few weeks wasn't one involving the top guys or any belts, but a stupid midcard infidelity angle between two firmly entrenched midcarders. The women's division is Becky and just filler opponents. They remake Asuka and Kairi into supposed top heels and then have them become chickenshit ones that make them seem less of a threat. How are people supposed to be invested in all this crap?

This company really needs to crash in the ratings, I mean completely bomb. It would be a lesson to everyone if they just completely fail because of their bad creative decisions.


----------



## Mongstyle

I think we'll be able to gauge Smackdown's long term potential soon enough.

Ignoring the taped show, the few weeks after will be key for it. If they manage to sustain numbers above 2.5 million, that would be a potentially good sign they may get a Mania bump next year.

At least for the moment, it seems like Raw ratings no longer impact Smackdown to the network move. So Mania season bump is potentially back in play.

But Raw is uncertain. It's basically cratered this year and is now showing signs of getting worse. It didn't get the Mania bump this year and there has been no change, so is it realistic to expect it will next year? I don't know. Having said that, the viewership is so bad right now that if they can get it back up to a 2.3 or 2.4 million average, it'd be a bump. Even if not that impressive.

It's certainly interesting to see how February and March will play out for both shows though.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> They can't or won't make stars. Rollins as top babyface has become a disaster and they had to get the title off him to get the backlash off. Nobody cares about Brock anymore. Guys who used to matter, like AJ and Orton, don't matter anymore. Everyone else on RAW are geeks from months or years of bad booking. Their top angle for the past few weeks wasn't one involving the top guys or any belts, but a stupid midcard infidelity angle between two firmly entrenched midcarders. The women's division is Becky and just filler opponents. They remake Asuka and Kairi into supposed top heels and then have them become chickenshit ones that make them seem less of a threat. How are people supposed to be invested in all this crap?
> 
> This company really needs to crash, it would do the industry some good and be a lesson to everyone if they just completely fail because of their bad decisions.


Everyone is dead, no wonder their crowds don't react anymore and cheer for NXT to beat their supppsed top stars asses.


----------



## llj

Vince McMahon took pro wrestling into the mainstream and now in his latter years he's taking pro wrestling out of the mainstream again. 50/50 booking, just as he loves to do.


----------



## The Wood

RubberbandGoat said:


> Looks like nobody was interested in that main event. Should have had someone else face Cole


Seth Rollins has been consistently in some of the lowest rated stuff. It’s a knock on him to the extent that he hasn’t helped his perception and said no to the shit he should. But you are not going to draw a rating with Seth until something major changes with him.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Really curious to see how exactly the Rollins/Cole match did, I like Rollins a lot but they've done a number on his character, and Adam Cole is a gigantic GEEK that no one knows, so I imagine that match bombed.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Vince just can't let go of his RAW boner. RAW should have put over NXT cleanly but instead they were afforded protection. The execution failed miserably but I bet NXT does win the total viewers vs AEW. The demo is iffy.


----------



## raymond1985

Did anyone really expect Rollins vs Cole to draw?


----------



## Zappers

Ace said:


> I knew they were fucked during the OC/Street Profits segment.
> 
> Generic tag match 1,009,000,000 followed by a main event title match with 10 mins left on the show.


Whoa, ok. Forgot to mention that. I actually like those guys a lot. But when he was going on and on. I'm like, what the hell is this guy rambling on about? You could hear the air being let out of the room. Ha. Punch out Maverick. PUNCH OUT!!! All I can say about those guys, it's one week. Take the loss, watch back your promo, and move on. Just improve next week and it will all be forgotten. Little more stuff like with the baby and lot less of what they did last night. Ha.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

So judging by the slight total viewers bump, the NXT effect added 3,000 total viewers. :vince$ :brock4 :heston


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> The second hour of SD WITH the actual match dropped. They built for the match throughout the show and the second hr was still lower fpalm
> 
> So far SDs second hour has been its most watched hr.
> 
> IDK whether there was a game on or whether people just don't want to see Cole in that spot. This is 2 main events which he's been in which haven't done well in the last 4 days.


Just for clarification's sake, the Bryan/Cole match was announced 70 minutes into the show. 

As a matter of fact, the second hour was virtually the same as the second hour from two weeks before. (same demo 13,000 fewer viewers) The big difference in Smackdown's rating was the first hour was 215,000 viewers more than Hour 1 on Oct. 21 and .1 higher in the demo. This could be attributable to people tuning in to see Crown Jewel fallout, then realized it was an NXT centric episode. The second hour dropped 124,000 viewers but maintained the demo. There was an NBA double header, the second of which featured the Lakers so it might have siphoned some viewers. Who knows?

Judging by Monday's rating, the "WWE Universe" is not too hungry for NXT.


----------



## llj

NXT isn't a draw. Now, I like a lot of what NXT does, but you have to reach really hard to find supportive numbers anywhere that paints NXT as any kind of draw, or any of the people down there benefiting in fame lately from NXT being on USA.

I can find numbers showing AEW has helped some of the people on that program get a significant bump in activity on their social media, but NXT roster has not really received the same bump.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> it did very well. The show gained 1.7 million from the awful 800,000 number the week before. So it improved the show. Nice try!


You're literally stupid. Like, literally.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Fuck RAW... I'm only reading spoilers or watching highlights going forward unless they give me something to look forward to. I'm done.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Zappers said:


> Whoa, ok. Forgot to mention that. I actually like those guys a lot. But when he was going on and on. I'm like, what the hell is this guy rambling on about? You could hear the air being let out of the room. Ha. Punch out Maverick. PUNCH OUT!!! All I can say about those guys, it's one week. Take the loss, watch back your promo, and move on. Just improve next week and it will all be forgotten. Little more stuff like with the baby and lot less of what they did last night. Ha.


Humberto may very well be the biggest anti-draw of all time.


----------



## Whysoserious?

llj said:


> NXT isn't a draw. Now, I like a lot of what NXT does, but you have to reach really hard to find supportive numbers anywhere that paints NXT as any kind of draw, or any of the people down there benefiting in fame lately from NXT being on USA.
> 
> I can find numbers showing AEW has helped some of the people on that program get a significant bump in activity on their social media, but NXT roster has not really received the same bump.


Exactly, flippy midgets will never be a draw


----------



## shadows123

llj said:


> NXT isn't a draw. Now, I like a lot of what NXT does, but you have to reach really hard to find supportive numbers anywhere that paints NXT as any kind of draw, or any of the people down there benefiting in fame lately from NXT being on USA.
> 
> I can find numbers showing AEW has helped some of the people on that program get a significant bump in activity on their social media, but NXT roster has not really received the same bump.


Ya well first of all AEW benefits frm being new..plus they are also doing a bunch of old school stuff.. Plus Jericho..cant state this enough!!!!.. Second of all, NXT being not that much of a draw..no shit.. Triple H's notion that wrestling is for a select target audience which wants to see more wrestling done by workhorses doesnt really work.. I agree with Vince on this that wwe has always been about characters doing stupid but entertaining things for the most part in the past.. Now a days you got a bunch of generic wrestlers who do a bunch of spots week after week.. No wonder not everyone is thrilled about that!!


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw will average under 2mils for all 3 hours in the next few weeks. The quality of MNF is ratcheting up in November. 49ers-Seahawks, Rams-Ravens, Chiefs-Chargers all on this month.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Don't expect ratings for RAW to be available on Tuesday because today is Veterans Day, a federal holiday.


----------



## Jonhern

RAW Ratings .64 Demo 2.058 Million Viewers

Hour 1: .75/2,358
Hour 2: .66/2,063
Hour 3: .52/1,753


----------



## rbl85

That the lowest third hour ever right ?


----------



## llj

Average rating for a taped show, bad rating overall. But we're going into those typically really ugly months now, so things could really start getting bad soon.


----------



## Ace

I'm surprised they held up that well, thought they would have done sub 2m and meme worthy numbers with the 3 day delay filler show and massive MNF OT game with an undefeated 49ers which turned out to be a classic.



llj said:


> Average rating for a taped show, bad rating overall. But we're going into those typically really ugly months now, so things could really start getting bad soon.


 Nah, this is the worst of it. 

I'm disappointed it isn't worse.... Thought for sure they'd do sub 2m average across MNF frequently but they've held up. They've stemmed the losses they had from Nov-April.


----------



## llj

The rejection of Rollins as a top babyface now could really hurt them. Without a top popular male babyface on the program, they have no one to centre the show around that will guarantee a baseline of viewers.


----------



## Ace

The MNF game did 16m, fuck I wanted a bloodbath


----------



## llj

Ace said:


> Nah this is the worst of it, I'm disappointed it isn't worse.... Thought for sure they'd do sub 2m average across MNF but they've held up.


Last year, December was their worst month. And December, typically, is a bad month for RAW. As I recall they were doing below 2 millions last December.


----------



## Mongstyle

That's a horrible number. Keep in mind that taped shows make a negligible impact on TV ratings despite the popular myth surrounding them. It looks like we may get that sub-2 million number before December potentially. They need to do something for Raw next week like having Smackdown stars announce their intention to go there or something. Anything to drum up interest for the show because it's clear the show is failing right now.

Raw has no stars that make an impact on viewers or retain any interest. You've just got a bunch of B players. The first hour will always do better than the rest, and the third hour will always do the worst. However the first hour they're starting off with is complete garbage. 2.3 million viewers to start with just shows very clearly that we're left with basically the die hards mainly who are gonna watch Raw no matter what and there's no interest surrounding this show.


----------



## Jonhern

Ace said:


> Nah, this is the worst of it.
> 
> I'm disappointed it isn't worse.... Thought for sure they'd do sub 2m average across MNF frequently but they've held up. They've stemmed the losses they had from Nov-April.


historically taped shows do the dame as live ones.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> Last year, December was their worst month. And December, typically, is a bad month for RAW. As I recall they were doing below 2 millions last December.


Yeah that was exceptionally bad because they didn't get anyone back from football and her their declines accelerated. IIRC numbers normally go up around that time. This is the worst period for ratings, except last year when the ratings died.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hour 1 was the only "redeeming" thing about this rating. The last two are brutal, especially the total viewership and demo of Hour 3. :sodone


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

There's no way they should be above 2 million with that football game on last night. The fact that they're only about 4-500K off of SD which is on Network television, even when Raw goes up against the NFL is baffling, too. It should be way worse, and SD should be way better.


----------



## rbl85

How much did the taped show last year ?


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> How much did the taped show last year ?


All I know is that they averaged below 2 million for all 3 hours.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> There's no way they should be above 2 million with that football game on last night. The fact that they're only about 4-500K off of SD which is on Network television, even when Raw goes up against the NFL is baffling, too. It should be way worse, and SD should be way better.


 Yeah, they might actually mark this as a win. To hold up above 2m after that monster game and 3 day tape delay where they did nothing on the show.

I was certain they were going to become a meme this week, guess we'll have to wait until next year or a holiday ep for Raw to drop below 2m.


----------



## Jonhern

Has got to be one of the lowest hour ratings for RAW ever in that third hour. SDL got that or near it this year I think, which goes to show RAW is the new b-show in people's minds. The average three-hour demo is basically what SDL was doing on USA since May of this year. RAW held on to 78% of the Smackdown Audience.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> All I know is that they averaged below 2 million for all 3 hours.


It did 2.44

H1 2.641

H2 2.501

H3 2.181


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

I didn't watch the show, what were they advertising for the main event? That's some drop off from H1 to H3.

Shit number, but given the competition I actually expected worse tbh. SD wasn't as bad as expected either. I guess they've put a band-aid on the shotgun wound, for now.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> It did 2.44.



https://wrestletalk.com/news/christmas-eve-raw-viewership/

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...ys-under-two-million-for-new-year-eve-649412/

Unless you are comparing to the same week last year. In which case, that episode was not taped.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.358M [9th] | 0.750D [4th]
H2: 2.063M [11th] | 0.660D [5th]
H3: 1.753M [16th] | 0.520D [8th]

3H: 2.058M | 0.643D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.295M | - 12.51% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 12.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.310M | - 15.03% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 21.21% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.605M | - 25.66% ]
[ - 0.230D | - 30.67% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.078M | - 3.65% ]
[ - 0.114D | - 15.06% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.392M | - 16.00% ]
[ - 0.247D | - 27.75% ]*


----------



## Ace

So they only lost 78,000 viewers from last week against a much stronger MNF game and tape delay.

Can't see them dropping to below sub 2m until next year then, if this game couldn't do it, idk what can.

Maybe the NBA Finals? Philly vs Lakers?


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> https://wrestletalk.com/news/christmas-eve-raw-viewership/
> 
> https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...ys-under-two-million-for-new-year-eve-649412/
> 
> Unless you are comparing to the same week last year. In which case, that episode was not taped.


Why do you compare it with the Christmas eve episode ?


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> Why do you compare it with the Christmas eve episode ?


Because you were talking about taped episodes last year. The only taped episodes last year were the holiday episodes.

You have to be more specific when requesting what you wanted info on.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> Because you were talking about taped episodes last year. The only taped episodes last year were the holiday episodes.
> 
> You have to be more specific when requesting what you wanted info on.


https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-news-monday-night-raw-ratings-for-taped-episode


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-news-monday-night-raw-ratings-for-taped-episode


Interesting.

That's actually not good news for this year.


----------



## ClintDagger

Raw does B show numbers and SD does A show numbers now. That’s it in a nutshell. Except that SD should be doing much, much better given that they are on broadcast tv. It’s almost like instead of an A and B show they now have a B+ show and a B- show. They would have been better off moving Raw to Fox or rebranding SD altogether.


----------



## Mongstyle

That's basically a near 20% drop from this time last year. Nothing about the rating is good. People's expectations are low because Raw ratings have been a disaster since late last year. Mania season produced no recovery for the first time, and post-Mania it was cratering until the Wild Card. So now that we're back to where we were, it's that feeling of, "It's not that bad I guess." But it's actually horrible.

At this rate, Raw's new normal will indeed be sub-2 million soon. They've turned away way too many people since late last year, and the drops are not stabilizing. They're trending in one direction, despite the continuous life support WWE tries like the Wild Card, which was clearly only good as a short-term bandage for the bleeding. If they bring back HHH, Goldberg, Ronda etc. they may be able to keep Raw floating above 2 million into Mania at least since there may be 1-300k people who'll be interested because they think something is changing. But post-Mania 36, they are definitely in a for a bad drop since it's now clear that both Rollins and Becky are basically huge failures as the two top promoted faces of the brand.

Raw needs an overhaul. I mentioned this weeks ago, but the draft was botched for Raw. What it needs is to feel like a fresh show, but it doesn't. All the draft did was leave the upper card 95% the same, and add a bunch of no names and nobodies to the show to pad it. I'm not sure even bringing Brock back was a good move. He adds to that feeling of the show not feeling fresh simply because Brock has been on Raw for years and involved in the main event. So him being back there only adds more to the feeling of the show being the same old shit it has been for the last year (if not more).


----------



## Jonhern

Showstopper said:


> There's no way they should be above 2 million with that football game on last night. The fact that they're only about 4-500K off of SD which is on Network television, even when Raw goes up against the NFL is baffling, too. It should be way worse, and SD should be way better.


It's the b show now so it's what SDl was pretty much doing on USA, raw this week was 78% or smackdown on fox.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jonhern said:


> It's the b show now so it's what SDl was pretty much doing on USA, raw this week was 78% or smackdown on fox.


I don't think you can say that as far as the rosters go, tbh. And given the disappointment of the FOX numbers..


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

I'm surprised it got that honestly. Top tier football game + taped raw that sounded like cheeks sounded like a recipe for some record setting lows


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> It's the b show now so it's what SDl was pretty much doing on USA, raw this week was 78% or smackdown on fox.


It’s undeniably the B show. It has the B set, the B announcers, and the B world title. And now it has the B viewership.


----------



## sara sad

Not as bad as i expected tbh.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> It’s undeniably the B show. It has the B set, the B announcers, and the B world title. And now it has the B viewership.


You can't cherry pick. You must include the rosters. You are basically saying Becky Lynch(self/and fan proclaimed face of WWE), Charlotte, Lesnar, Rollins, AJ Styles, Owens, Asuka, Orton, Ricochet, etc... are all B roster.

Fine by me. But you have to include the roster. It's basically 95% of the show. The announcers, the set, are all minimal in terms of the product.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

WWE RAW Draws Lowest Non-Holiday Viewership In Modern Show History. Lowest Hour 3 in *history* and the largest Hour 1 to Hour 3 drop in _*history*_. But it's not that bad. All the spinning in here.







:heston


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean no one stuck around to watch Humberto Carillo go over? Well fuck me sideways


----------



## InexorableJourney

And so begins the countdown to 1 million, if 888k is the baseline.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> You can't cherry pick. You must include the rosters. You are basically saying Becky Lynch(self/and fan proclaimed face of WWE), Charlotte, Lesnar, Rollins, AJ Styles, Owens, Asuka, Orton, Ricochet, etc... are all B roster.
> 
> Fine by me. But you have to include the roster. It's basically 95% of the show. The announcers, the set, are all minimal in terms of the product.


I’m not cherry picking. In recent years the rosters have been somewhat even apart from having a big star like Cena that pretty much stayed exclusive to Raw and perhaps Brock who used to never appear on SD. A star like Cena doesn’t exist today. The closest thing to that would be Reigns and he’s on SD. Brock being on Raw I will grant you but that’s the only “A” thing about Raw right now other than them being 3 hours and having to have more bodies in general because of the extra hour. So if talent is by and large going to be even, then what are the other factors? Everything I mentioned has largely been what has dictated A vs B show in recent years.

If your argument is they have no A show anymore I probably can’t argue that. The people you mentioned are “B” roster because the entire roster is a B roster. That’s why the product is so ice cold. But WWE’s intent is for SD to be the premier show (for obvious reasons).


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> WWE RAW Draws Lowest Non-Holiday Viewership In Modern Show History. Lowest Hour 3 in *history* and the largest Hour 1 to Hour 3 drop in _*history*_. But it's not that bad. All the spinning in here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :heston


No..they told you a week in advance you got the worst segment of the year in the show and the show overall was ass.

They shouldn't have even cracked 2 mill let alone that 1.7 when the football game was at it's peak


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I am shocked at the positive spin on these numbers. Barely 2M overall only last years Christmas and New Years are lower in nearly 27 years of TV. Sure I would love to see them flop harder but they could draw 250K and it won't matter unless TV deals or Saudi Blood Money go away.


----------



## Chan Hung

1.7 last hour!!
:maury


----------



## Whysoserious?

I didn’t bother watching that trash


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

ClintDagger said:


> It’s undeniably the B show. It has the B set, the B announcers, and the B world title. And now it has the B viewership.


Vince had Cole say on air that Smackdown is the A show. He may not book them that way with respect to the NXT incursion, but his public position is that they are the apex of WWE. Now if Smackdown goes tits up, look for Cole and Graves to return to RAW and for the junior varsity team to move to Smackdown. Some people get too up in arms over that designation when both shows are mired in mediocre ratings.


----------



## shadows123

Well..the product sucks, they dont have any stars, all look like generic jobbers spouting out stuff which wont even make it in the final cut of a Disney movie.. gotta admire the fortitude of the 2million folks who do tune in for the full 3 hours every week :lol


----------



## Interceptor88

shadows123 said:


> Well..the product sucks, they dont have any stars, all look like generic jobbers spouting out stuff which wont even make it in the final cut of a Disney movie.. gotta admire the fortitude of the 2million folks who do tune in for the full 3 hours every week :lol


This should be called the Nobodies Era. The entire roster with few exceptions like the Fiend and Lesnar feel like midcarders at best, and right now I'd say it's even worse. Even established guys who would've been solid main eventers and uppercarders in better times like Orton and Rey-Rey (I have to admit Rey is in a good program now though) get lost in the shuffle because this isn't just a regular mediocre scenario where at least the really talented people stand out: this is a fucking black hole of doom that raptures the talent and makes even goddamn Daniel Bryan look like crap.


----------



## ClintDagger

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Vince had Cole say on air that Smackdown is the A show. He may not book them that way with respect to the NXT incursion, but his public position is that they are the apex of WWE. Now if Smackdown goes tits up, look for Cole and Graves to return to RAW and for the junior varsity team to move to Smackdown. Some people get too up in arms over that designation when both shows are mired in mediocre ratings.


Well there you go. I missed Cole saying that. But that right there should end any debate. And I get that Becky & Seth fans think those two are big stars and can’t possibly be on the B show. But they fail to realize that those two mean nothing to the casual audience. If they did, they’d be on Fox. I think all Fox cared about was getting the main announcers, the better stage, Roman Reigns, and then having first dibs on the Cena, Takers, Austin’s, Rocks, and Ronda’s of the world when they come around. Then the Fiend got hot and Fox probably demanded they get Bray and gave up Brock in return.

And yeah it doesn’t REALLY matter what the A and B show is or who is where. It’s fun for discussion but people shouldn’t get in a lather about it.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> Well there you go. I missed Cole saying that. But that right there should end any debate. And I get that Becky & Seth fans think those two are big stars and can’t possibly be on the B show. But they fail to realize that those two mean nothing to the casual audience. If they did, they’d be on Fox. I think all Fox cared about was getting the main announcers, the better stage, Roman Reigns, and then having first dibs on the Cena, Takers, Austin’s, Rocks, and Ronda’s of the world when they come around. Then the Fiend got hot and Fox probably demanded they get Bray and gave up Brock in return.
> 
> And yeah it doesn’t REALLY matter what the A and B show is or who is where. It’s fun for discussion but people shouldn’t get in a lather about it.


I laugh whenever people think fox is calling the shots on everything, especially when USA actually pays WWE more. Sure they have input but Vince is still the one making the decisions of who goes where and what happens on the show. Like do you really think FOX would want them to have NXT wrestlers, a USA show, come in and beat DB? The only reason SDL is the A show is because it's on Broadcast TV, a bigger potential audience, that's really it, FOX is not dictating that to Vince. And no way if it was their choice would they trade Brock for Bray.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

Some promotions would still kill for a rating like that. Just in how you look at things.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> I laugh whenever people think fox is calling the shots on everything, especially when USA actually pays WWE more. Sure they have input but Vince is still the one making the decisions of who goes where and what happens on the show. Like do you really think FOX would want them to have NXT wrestlers, a USA show, come in and beat DB? The only reason SDL is the A show is because it's on Broadcast TV, a bigger potential audience, that's really it, FOX is not dictating that to Vince. And no way if it was their choice would they trade Brock for Bray.


Why wouldn’t they trade Brock for Bray? Bray is the hottest thing going. Brock is stale and no longer a difference maker. Fox literally got the title change on their show then sent the B title packing to Raw. Fox isn’t to the point of booking finishes if that’s what you’re insinuating, but if you don’t think they’re getting the pick of the litter when it comes to talent I think you’re very naive. If WWE fails on Fox it will be devastating to their future earning potential. Fox is going to get their 2 or 3 top choices of talent plus all of the still relevant part timers and legends. Raw will get the Brocks, Hogans, and Flairs of the world.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

I am not shocked that raws ratings suck, I am shocked that 2m people watch raw.


----------



## Not Lying

So Becky can really did draw the same ratings as Brock Lesnar and people will still talk shit :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

The Definition of Technician said:


> So Becky can really did draw the same ratings as Brock Lesnar and people will still talk shit :lol


Brock’s done. There’s no juice left in him. That’s why he’s on Raw and not SD. Anybody that still thinks he’s a difference maker hasn’t been reading the tea leaves. The only reason WWE should keep Brock under contract is so that he doesn’t go to AEW because with a new coat of paint he probably could be a difference maker again.

The only difference between Brock & Becky is that Brock doesn’t have the tune out factor with casuals that Becky does. If WWE uses Becky right she’s clearly a better money maker for them.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> Why wouldn’t they trade Brock for Bray? Bray is the hottest thing going. Brock is stale and no longer a difference maker. Fox literally got the title change on their show then sent the B title packing to Raw. Fox isn’t to the point of booking finishes if that’s what you’re insinuating, but if you don’t think they’re getting the pick of the litter when it comes to talent I think you’re very naive. If WWE fails on Fox it will be devastating to their future earning potential. Fox is going to get their 2 or 3 top choices of talent plus all of the still relevant part-timers and legends. Raw will get the Brocks, Hogans, and Flairs of the world.


No I am saying they don't have overriding power over USA, and Vince is still going to do whatever he feels like at the end of the day. WWE is partners with both of them, USA is paying them more. They will not fuck over USA, a long term partnership, because FOX wants all the big names, like I said they have input but that's all it is, Vince is still deciding who goes where and what happens on the shows, he's not taking any orders from USA or FOX. Bray might be the hottest thing going but that's not saying much, he is just better than all the shit around him so he smells like roses. If what you say is true FOX would never have let Brock go, they would have kept him if they want a more "sports" feel and WWE would have done something else to get a title back on RAW. All you have to do is look at who FOX was advertising in their commercials all over NFL and other programs, that's who they thought would draw, half of them are not on the show anymore.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Meltzer said the final minute of RAW right after Humberto Carillio got the pin did 1.2 MILLION VIEWERS LOL


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> Becky a draw lol?
> 
> It was the first hr, get a grip.
> 
> As if that first hr number wasn't piss weak and one of the worst they've had in a while - they were up against a dud MNF game as well.





ClintDagger said:


> Brock’s done. There’s no juice left in him. That’s why he’s on Raw and not SD. Anybody that still thinks he’s a difference maker hasn’t been reading the tea leaves. The only reason WWE should keep Brock under contract is so that he doesn’t go to AEW because with a new coat of paint he probably could be a difference maker again.
> 
> The only difference between Brock & Becky is that *Brock doesn’t have the tune out factor *with casuals that Becky does. If WWE uses Becky right she’s clearly a better money maker for them.


Yeah...I'm sure none of the 2m people that stopped watching between 2014 and 2018 had nothing to do with the fact Lesnar was champion for 90% of that time and people didn't give a shit about him and Reigns colliding at WM. Believe it or not, he does have a tune-out factor long term, maybe not short-term. Are people really sitting infront of their TV watching Heyman cut and promo and lesnar being a lazy shit, without tuning out at all?

I do think you are right and Becky has a tune out factor with a specif demo, and it's mostly the people who have been conditioned for decades not to give a shit about women wrestling, which is a big % of the current WWE fan base. But, I'd like to see some numbers for younger demo variation for Becky segments.


----------



## shadows123

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah...I'm sure none of the 2m people that stopped watching between 2014 and 2018 had nothing to do with the fact Lesnar was champion for 90% of that time and people didn't give a shit about him and Reigns colliding at WM. Believe it or not, he does have a tune-out factor long term, maybe not short-term. Are people really sitting infront of their TV watching Heyman cut and promo and lesnar being a lazy shit, without tuning out at all?
> 
> I do think you are right and Becky has a tune out factor with a specif demo, and it's mostly the people who have been conditioned for decades not to give a shit about women wrestling, which is a big % of the current WWE fan base. But, I'd like to see some numbers for younger demo variation for Becky segments.


Well think about it, lets say you stopped watching at some point frustrated at the direction with Brock as the champion and Roman challenging him.. Two years later, you tune back in and Brock is still the champion and promos are still about him being part time :lol If anything, WWE has grossly misused Brock.. He can still be a great special attraction.. He looks like a legit star unlike the rest of the roster... But WWE has to look beyond this lazy part timer shit..and also move around your main event scene...

Becky and the women.. I wouldnt give any blame to them whatsoever..WWE has conditioned everyone for years that women dont matter with the innumerous bra and panties matches or other similar matches..So why will people take them seriously all of a sudden ...


----------



## Mongstyle

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah...I'm sure none of the 2m people that stopped watching between 2014 and 2018 had nothing to do with the fact Lesnar was champion for 90% of that time and people didn't give a shit about him and Reigns colliding at WM. Believe it or not, he does have a tune-out factor long term, maybe not short-term. Are people really sitting infront of their TV watching Heyman cut and promo and lesnar being a lazy shit, without tuning out at all?


The ratings for the Road to Mania 34 were up over 2017 and that build revolved around Reigns/Lesnar. Their segments did the best numbers according to Meltzer, and Ronda didn't anything at all. So, clearly people cared contrary to what you're saying here.

Trying to pass off hardcore opinions as if that is the norm doesn't help since if that was the case, the road to Mania 35 wouldn't have been such a disaster. After all, hardcore fans were excited about the women's main event. Didn't change the fact that there was no Mania bump for the first time ever, Network growth declined for the first time, ratings still fell (and only had a marginal bump when Reigns and Batista returned), and everything collapsed coming out of Mania 35.

Brock is still an attraction. His return led to some bumps post-Mania 35 and helped Raw float above 2 million. And that's with WWE doing their best to turn people off him and how badly he's been misused since WM34. We also can see he's had an impact on numbers for years now. So just because his impact has diminished since last year (although clearly still having an impact) doesn't somehow mean he's no longer an attraction. The problem with Brock right now is simply how he's being used. But it's clear others don't do anything regardless of how they're used.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

ClintDagger said:


> Brock’s done. There’s no juice left in him. That’s why he’s on Raw and not SD. Anybody that still thinks he’s a difference maker hasn’t been reading the tea leaves. The only reason WWE should keep Brock under contract is so that he doesn’t go to AEW because with a new coat of paint he probably could be a difference maker again.
> 
> *The only difference between Brock & Becky is that Brock doesn’t have the tune out factor with casuals that Becky does.* If WWE uses Becky right she’s clearly a better money maker for them.


That's definitely not the _only _difference.

:bryanlol

I get what you're saying anyway. Brock is a 6 foot 3, 290 lbs, legit fighting machine. Becky is a pretty petite 135 lbs woman. Of course he is going to draw more casuals. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise, the man is a freak, Becky is a regular pretty attractive woman you could see on any street in any town. I like her a lot but she's clearly not "larger than life" which is something casual wrestling audiences tend to look for. She's fine as top woman, but not top star.

I've said it many times, the face of the company needs to be a man. I think having a strong women's division is important, but you need a strong male on top. Not sexism, just catering to your audience.



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Meltzer said the final minute of RAW right after Humberto Carillio got the pin did 1.2 MILLION VIEWERS LOL


Jesus. Who did he wrestle? I didn't watch the show. I'm surprised they put a newcomer in the main event. It's like they just accept that 3rd hour is going to die now lol.


----------



## Mongstyle

SayWhatAgain! said:


> That's definitely not the _only _difference.
> 
> :bryanlol
> 
> I get what you're saying anyway. Brock is a 6 foot 3, 290 lbs, legit fighting machine. Becky is a pretty petite 135 lbs woman. Of course he is going to draw more casuals. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise, the man is a freak, Becky is a regular pretty attractive woman you could see on any street in any town. I like her a lot but she's clearly not "larger than life" which is something casual wrestling audiences tend to look for. She's fine as top woman, but not top star.
> 
> I've said it many times, the face of the company needs to be a man. I think having a strong women's division is important, but you need a strong male on top. Not sexism, just catering to your audience.


The assertion of Becky being a draw with casuals is so moronic, I don't even know what to say.

Becky is a draw with casuals? In what galaxy? Mania 35 was built around her and Ronda and Charlotte. She was promoted the most in the build up to WM35 from late 2018. Ratings collapsed. Attendance collapsed. Network growth declined for the first time ever. And coming out of Mania, they went into emergency panic mode. You had Vince McMahon having to explain to investors on call as to why WWE was suddenly tanking so badly compared to before.

How the hell can anyone be so delusional to make such a claim?

Becky isn't a draw, period. Peeps will say, "But WWE has been declining for years" while conveniently ignoring all nuance and the fact the decline since late 2018 is unprecedented. Things got worse and at a much more rapid pace. It literally coincides with when the women were given all the spotlight, with Becky at the forefront. And if people gave a shit about Becky, Raw ratings wouldn't have been collapsing and about to fall below 2 million after a Mania built entirely around her, which led to the USA Network telling Vince to get more stars on Raw and the Wild Card being implemented.

Not to mention, the bad ratings right now when her and Seth are the two most promoted individuals on the brand. And have been since late 2018. You've got Raw on life support and once again showing signs that it'll be under sub-2 million soon enough on a regular basis.

The delusion with Becky stans. Bloody hell.

And since people like bringing up stuff from the WOL about quarter hour ratings, while ignoring positioning (such as the fact that the opening quarters will always be some of the strongest due to positioning, and that Becky and others have failed to actually do well when positioned in less favorable spots), here's an actual Meltzer quote about Becky:



> "They were down 8% year on year for the Network.
> 
> The network hasn't really grown much in the last couple of years. They've added international growth, but US growth has been really small. *Last year for WM they had a pretty decent year as far as the growth and this year going into WM it was not that strong, a little down from last year. If you look at the numbers of the decrease last year and this year for the Network, it pretty much collapsed this year. Which tells us what we kind of already knew, the interest in WWE right now coming out of WM was really weak.*
> 
> *Coming out of WM it was supposed to be Becky Lynch and everything, but as soon as Ronda was gone... We both know, we both thought it. Anyone who thinks Becky Lynch was the most valuable women in the company, there is no way now.* You could have argued it before, it's so clear this thing was carried by Ronda and her name. The minute Becky didn't have Ronda, granted she worked with Lacey which is a big drop. *The network never had a drop and now it has a big drop.* All these changes I don't see them helping, I see more and more people getting confused with the network and more and more frustrated."


Nothing about WM35 was a positive. It failed on basically every metric.


----------



## Rozzop

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ace said:
> 
> 
> 
> Becky a draw lol?
> 
> It was the first hr, get a grip.
> 
> As if that first hr number wasn't piss weak and one of the worst they've had in a while - they were up against a dud MNF game as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClintDagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brock’s done. There’s no juice left in him. That’s why he’s on Raw and not SD. Anybody that still thinks he’s a difference maker hasn’t been reading the tea leaves. The only reason WWE should keep Brock under contract is so that he doesn’t go to AEW because with a new coat of paint he probably could be a difference maker again.
> 
> The only difference between Brock & Becky is that *Brock doesn’t have the tune out factor *with casuals that Becky does. If WWE uses Becky right she’s clearly a better money maker for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...I'm sure none of the 2m people that stopped watching between 2014 and 2018 had nothing to do with the fact Lesnar was champion for 90% of that time and people didn't give a shit about him and Reigns colliding at WM. Believe it or not, he does have a tune-out factor long term, maybe not short-term. Are people really sitting infront of their TV watching Heyman cut and promo and lesnar being a lazy shit, without tuning out at all?
> 
> I do think you are right and Becky has a tune out factor with a specif demo, and it's mostly the people who have been conditioned for decades not to give a shit about women wrestling, which is a big % of the current WWE fan base. But, I'd like to see some numbers for younger demo variation for Becky segments.
Click to expand...

Not a fan of Brock either way but why would you tune out of Raw because you don't like one person?

Two million people have left in the last few years. I personally cant stand most of the roster, the pandering to children, the booking, the commentators, the overall package, basically everything.

I cannot stand New Day and they are an instant channel changer. But if they were surrounded by decent programming I would stick around.

Instead we get New Day, followed by 24/7 crap followed by turgid womens match followed by Bray playing with his puppets, followed by a great AJ Styles vs charisma vacuum CAW wrestler.

Why would I want to stick around for 3 hours of crap just to see Styles?

The ratings are how they are because millions dont want to watch the majority of the product, not because of 1 or 2 people.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

lol, you mean to tell me Cringey Lynch was not a draw? Well, color me surprise.


----------



## Stadhart02

The problem is with WWE now is apathy. With the Cena times and even to an extent the Reigns time - it was awful and I bitched about the show but still watched a lot of it

Now I cant even be bothered to fast forward through it to see what is happening. I don't know who half the wrestlers are anymore apart "factory line tagteam" etc. They all look and act the same

Step finally finished off my interest with the feminist stuff and Sky in the UK repeat the shows over and over and I noticed it was the UK shows so went to watch the first bit of RAW and it was Becky so I switched over again. Nothing lost

The crowds are beyond awful now (that's assuming anyone is actually there anymore) and they just add to the crap

And some wannabe hipsters thinking they are "cool" chanting NXT is hilarious. Add in the increase in female fans = crap and the death of a product


----------



## Not Lying

Some of you really are just way too one dimensional in your thinking and there's no reasoning with people like you. 

Facts are facts now, this was from the most recent WON apparantly.



> In the recent issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the quarter hour ratings for this week have revealed that women are once again drawing viewers. This week had three women’s matches, all which saw significant gains and high points of their respective shows.
> 
> – The high point of Monday Night Raw was the Kabuki Warriors vs. Charlotte Flair & Becky Lynch title match that did 2,454,000 viewers. The low point, of 1,680,000 viewers was for the beginning of the OC vs. Ricochet & Randy Orton & Humberto Carrillo match, although the audience did grow during the match.



Becky's been consistently in the top-rated segments recently, Brock Lesnar drew the same number as her or less, while Becky was on a taped episode. 

People seem to also forget that Becky was being built up back then and she's more established now. 

Let alone all the other factors that led to a ratings drop this year (FOTC going away in a time of a crisis -ratings already showing trends of all-time lows since July of 2018; WWE fucking up the storyline of the RTWM with a terrible story and terrible injury angle)..but sure.. we can ignore all that.

All that with being completely stupid to think someone who was top merch seller for 6months+ isn't a draw :lol "but but merch sales are declining"...but but shut up, nobody is saying she's John Cena who used to be responsible for like 25% of all merch sales if not more.


----------



## Rozzop

The Definition of Technician said:


> Some of you really are just way too one dimensional in your thinking and there's no reasoning with people like you.
> 
> Facts are facts now, this was from the most recent WON apparantly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the recent issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the quarter hour ratings for this week have revealed that women are once again drawing viewers. This week had three women’s matches, all which saw significant gains and high points of their respective shows.
> 
> – The high point of Monday Night Raw was the Kabuki Warriors vs. Charlotte Flair & Becky Lynch title match that did 2,454,000 viewers. The low point, of 1,680,000 viewers was for the beginning of the OC vs. Ricochet & Randy Orton & Humberto Carrillo match, although the audience did grow during the match.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Becky's been consistently in the top-rated segments recently, Brock Lesnar drew the same number as her or less, while Becky was on a taped episode.
> 
> People seem to also forget that Becky was being built up back then and she's more established now.
> 
> Let alone all the other factors that led to a ratings drop this year (FOTC going away in a time of a crisis -ratings already showing trends of all-time lows since July of 2018; WWE fucking up the storyline of the RTWM with a terrible story and terrible injury angle)..but sure.. we can ignore all that.
> 
> All that with being completely stupid to think someone who was top merch seller for 6months+ isn't a draw <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> "but but merch sales are declining"...but but shut up, nobody is saying she's John Cena who used to be responsible for like 25% of all merch sales if not more.
Click to expand...

The first hour will always draw more viewers than the last. Put Becky in the last segment of the night and see how it does. To be fair won't her fanbase be in bed? 

Moot point. The audience has been driven away.

You guys would be still debating this if the figures were 10000 and declaring Becky, Kofi, insert geek here, were a draw cos they drew 11000


----------



## Stadhart02

The quarter hours that "prove" the women aren't complete channel changers reminds me of the comment that it isn't as bad stepping in bird shit as it is dog shit...you are still stepping in shit

The fact is the whole product is crap - attendances are awful and viewership is in the toilet...it doesn't matter about quarter spikes because the WWE is headed to where it belongs - the dustbin. That is why the feminist WWE goes to Saudi because they know long term they are fucked so are whoring themselves out to anyone

Sky in the UK have had WWE tv forever but now BT have come along and probably paid a fortune to be able to show it - no doubt they have done the Fox level of research and don't realise that their viewing figures will be zero. I just wonder if Mrs Feminist Steph fucks all the tv bosses or something because how else do they get these big tv deals?!


----------



## Ace

Looks like WWE is the next victim of "Get woke, go broke".


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Need my* DRAW, BECKY DRAW* t-shirt. :becky :beckylol


----------



## llj

The fact is the current roster isn't getting it done. Doesn't matter who they push, even if some succeed momentarily, it never lasts long. The roster might even be stale at this point. Some of these people have been around and appearing every week longer that some entire eras, and many of the same people have been in the title picture for well over 4 years without letup. 

The women's division for the most part has some of the more colorful and attractive characters in the company, even though I have issues with their booking (as with the men's). They've sometimes done better work than the men over the past 2 years. But there's nothing to suggest anyone on the women's division moves the needle enough to entrust the company's entire marketing to. Not Becky, not Charlotte, not even Ronda.

I don't really know what else the WWE can do. I don't think anyone on RAW below Seth right now could do a better job at drawing either--most of them have been too damaged also.

The other problem is that the WWE has also been too reactive when it comes to creating additional title contenders. The crowds today are waiting for the WWE to do something different and the WWE is waiting for someone, ANYONE to get hot with the crowd. So you have this standoff where nothing gets done because both are waiting for the other to give the green light to push some newer and fresher faces. When someone new does get over, like Becky and Kofi, they are only over to the existing audience and aren't getting over enough to draw NEW viewers to the product. In some cases when they tried someone new, the ratings tanked, like during the past year.

So in the process, the same people get overexposed to the point of staleness because the crowds often won't react to anyone else other than the people they are already pushing, and they're afraid of taking too many risks because the last few risks didn't pan out at the box office. It's a catch 22 situation.


----------



## Ace

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Need my* DRAW, BECKY DRAW* t-shirt. :becky :beckylol


 Where's the *TANK WM TANK* shirt? :becky

The state WWE is in has a lot to do with Becky. There's a reason why they eased up on her after the disaster that was the RTWM and WM.

If they continued pushing the women like they were then, they would be doing 1.5m average. No question.

They looked headed that way with the declines they were doing Nov-April, they've stemmed the declines hence why they haven't down an average of sub 2m yet. Expected them to do it nearly every week during football season.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.245M [11th] | 0.720D [5th]
H2: 2.211M [12th] | 0.730D [4th]
H3: 1.925M [15th] | 0.600D [6th]

3H: 2.127M | 0.683D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.034M | - 1.51% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 1.39% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.286M | - 12.94% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 17.81% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.320M | - 14.25% ]
[ - 0.120D | - 16.67% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.069M | + 3.35% ]
[ + 0.040D | + 6.22% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.366M | - 14.68% ]
[ - 0.190D | - 21.76% ]*


----------



## Jonhern

RAW Ratings: .68 Demo 2.127 Million Viewers


----------



## Ace

lmao that first hr is tragic :lmao

Lowest ever? What was in the first hr?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Pathetic, yet well deserved. :heston


----------



## llj

Every hour looks weak. No positives to this at all.


----------



## ClintDagger

Holy shit, that first hour... What was in that hour and what started the show off?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

They actually gained viewers in Hour 2. Is that the lowest Hour 1 ever (minus Christmas/New Years)?


----------



## shadows123

On this evidence, wonder how NXT are going to beat AEW even though they have said that there are going to be invasions..Awful show with well deserved awful ratings overall.


----------



## Frost99

A "Go Home Show" for a "BIG 4" PPV........


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am curious o see where this all settles out post NFL competition. Remember a lot of that first hour was unopposed by football. :lol


----------



## ClintDagger

Frost99 said:


> A "Go Home Show" for a "BIG 4" PPV........


They’re lucky it was a go home show otherwise the rating would have been even lower.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

shadows123 said:


> On this evidence, wonder how NXT are going to beat AEW even though they have said that there are going to be invasions..Awful show with well deserved awful ratings overall.


Thing is, HHH begged for people to tune in. If they get just half of Hour 3's audience they might beat AEW.


----------



## ClintDagger

CMPunkRock316 said:


> They actually gained viewers in Hour 2.


The only reason I can think of for them to gain viewers in H2 (considering that’s when the game is starting) is that a huge chunk of the audience tuned in at the top, wasn’t interested in what they saw and tuned out; then decided to tune back in for the 9p hour to see if that was any better and they actually stuck around for a bit.


----------



## rbl85

Wow that's really bad, i really thought that it was going to do way better than that.


----------



## Chrome

@ those numbers, especially that 1st hour.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ClintDagger said:


> Holy shit, that first hour... What was in that hour and what started the show off?


The women. You know that thread where apparently womens wrestling is all people watch and how its carrying the company?


Yeah.


----------



## rbl85

Last year the go home show did 2.45M (with the first hour doing 2.7M)


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

:kobelol The NXT "invasion" storyline has officially flopped. It failed. 

If WWE had done this in 2016 when NXT was actually worth a fuck, they would be doing better IMO. Despite some being fans of 2019 NXT (for some reason), this NXT roster isn't shit compared to the RAW/SD roster. Hell, not even compared to the NXT rosters of the past. No stars. No purpose. No consistency. Why support NXT when you know most of them won't become the breakout stars they deserve to be? Keith Lee and Matt Riddle can be stars tomorrow but since this angle, they are nothing more than "just another guy(s)". Adam Cole is like the only person who has gotten somewhat of a benefit from this and HHH took his spotlight, anyways.

A well deserved rating going into Survivor Series. Pathetic.


----------



## rbl85

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Thing is, HHH begged for people to tune in. If they get just half of Hour 3's audience they might beat AEW.


The 750k who Watch NXT probably watch RAW too so….


----------



## shadows123

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Thing is, HHH begged for people to tune in. If they get just half of Hour 3's audience they might beat AEW.


Considering they many didnt even bother staying tuned in till the last hour of Raw, what are the chances of half of this tuning into NXT??? :lol


----------



## llj

According to Showbuzz, the 1st hour was actually 2.245m, not the 2nd hour:











Still a very crappy first hour rating though


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Coincidence or not, ever since the advent of the NXT invasion, both RAW and Smackdown are tanking more than usual.


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> According to Showbuzz, the 1st hour was actually 2.245m, not the 2nd hour:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still a very crappy first hour rating though


First hr had more people watching but second had the higher demo.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The only thing I could get into at all was KO vs Drew and they ruined a perfectly good match by having Triple Nose butt in.


----------



## llj

Ace said:


> First hr had more people watching but second had the higher demo.


Yup, that's why it was ranked higher. I could see why we would have thought it was the 1st hour without looking at the actual times listed.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

llj said:


> According to Showbuzz, the 1st hour was actually 2.245m, not the 2nd hour:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still a very crappy first hour rating though


Acknowledged and rectified below. Thanks for discerning that.

*H1: 2.245M [11th] | 0.720D [5th]
H2: 2.211M [12th] | 0.730D [4th]
H3: 1.925M [15th] | 0.600D [6th]

3H: 2.127M | 0.683D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.034M | - 1.51% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 1.39% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.286M | - 12.94% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 17.81% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.320M | - 14.25% ]
[ - 0.120D | - 16.67% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.069M | + 3.35% ]
[ + 0.040D | + 6.22% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.366M | - 14.68% ]
[ - 0.190D | - 21.76% ]*


----------



## ClintDagger

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Coincidence or not, ever since the advent of the NXT invasion, both RAW and Smackdown are tanking more than usual.


Not a coincidence IMO.


----------



## rbl85

Raw doing the numbers that SD did on USA….


----------



## Zappers

The NXT invasion worked when it was less people involved. The very first night they did it was very good. Then they watered it down by having Cole wrestle again two days later on RAW. That was unnecessary.

Anyway I feel sorry for three people. Andrade and Murphy/Tozawa. Andrade because he had an excellent match with Rollins, but that turned out to just be a feeder for the invasion. Basically a throw away match in the eyes of the storyline. And Murphy/Tozawa, because they stole the show. But because of the "low ratings", WWE will panic and blame it on them. So we'll see less of that and more of Becky Lynch.


----------



## Ace

The problem is they're using way too.mamy guys, it's hard to process who is out there and what is going on.

Worse yet when you do see, it's geeks like Lucha House Party, Zack Ryder and Mojo.

Should have only used the top stars from the brands.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Raw doing the numbers that SD did on USA….


B show BAY BAY!


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The year to year drop is substantial. 
Y-Y:
[ - 0.366M | - 14.68% ]
[ - 0.190D | - 21.76% ]

I remember thinking last year that they couldn't go much lower, but here we are. I will be shocked if we ever see all 3 hours sub 2M.


----------



## Whysoserious?

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Coincidence or not, ever since the advent of the NXT invasion, both RAW and Smackdown are tanking more than usual.


Because NXT is trash. Nobody cares about a bunch of midgets and geeks


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The "good news" is that the viewership increased by 3.46% from last week. The not so good news is that this is the second lowest non-holiday RAW audience behind last week's episode. Two weeks of ratings ineptitude. :woo


----------



## llj

I want to know if this is one of the worst first hour ratings of all time. It feels like it's close.


----------



## InexorableJourney

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> The "good news" is that the viewership increased by 3.46% from last week. The not so good news is that this is the second lowest non-holiday RAW audience behind last week's episode. Two weeks of ratings ineptitude. :woo


And those extra 70,000 people loved it, loved it I tells ya.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Ace said:


> lmao that first hr is tragic :lmao
> 
> Lowest ever? What was in the first hr?





ClintDagger said:


> Holy shit, that first hour... What was in that hour and what started the show off?





CMPunkRock316 said:


> They actually gained viewers in Hour 2. Is that the lowest Hour 1 ever (minus Christmas/New Years)?





Chrome said:


> @ those numbers, especially that 1st hour.





llj said:


> I want to know if this is one of the worst first hour ratings of all time. It feels like it's close.


*The 5 lowest ever H1:

12/24/18 - 1.752M
12/31/18 - 2.035M
11/18/19 - 2.245M
12/03/18 - 2.262M
05/27/19 - 2.265M*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *The 5 lowest ever H1:
> 
> 12/24/18 - 1.752M
> 12/31/18 - 2.035M
> 11/18/19 - 2.245M
> 12/03/18 - 2.262M
> 05/27/19 - 2.265M*


There you go. It's the lowest non holiday Hour 1 ever.


----------



## Chrome

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *The 5 lowest ever H1:
> 
> 12/24/18 - 1.752M
> 12/31/18 - 2.035M
> 11/18/19 - 2.245M
> 12/03/18 - 2.262M
> 05/27/19 - 2.265M*


The scary thing about those is they've all happened in under a year. Holiday or not, that's not good lol.


----------



## ClintDagger

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *The 5 lowest ever H1:
> 
> 12/24/18 - 1.752M
> 12/31/18 - 2.035M
> 11/18/19 - 2.245M
> 12/03/18 - 2.262M
> 05/27/19 - 2.265M*


Thanks Jonny. You’re the man.

Wow that’s crazy to see.


----------



## Mongstyle

I think I mentioned this for weeks now, but the biggest problem Raw is demonstrating is that first hour. It just shows people don't give a shit any more and it's not just because of booking. If we look at historical ratings, they do not jive with the last 12 months at all. There is a clear difference in how ratings have trended in the last year. We used to regularly have strong first hours and then a drop off, and that drop off determined the strength of the average viewership. Now they start really shit and basically stay shit. Last year's go home show for Raw had a 2.7 million first hour. And that was when there was initial concern about how quickly the ratings seemed to be dropping. This year, they've been ranging from 2.0-2.4 million in the first hour.

Even more context, look at the numbers for the past few years for post-Mania Raw:

*Post WM32:* 4.09 million
*
Post WM33:* 3.767 million

*Post WM34:* 3.921 million
*
Post WM35:* 2.923 million

Aside from the drop off from 2015 post-Mania (that had 5 million viewers) to 2016 post-Mania, the numbers have been stable for Mania season. 2018 was actually up over 2017 throughout Mania season too so it showed positive growth in the numbers. And bear in mind, who was the show revolving around when that first massive drop occurred in mid-2015? Seth Rollins.

Will post-WM36 Raw even get above 2.5 million? How do you go from having stable numbers for 3 years (and even showing growth again), to dropping off a goddamn cliff?

And as a bonus, here's the ratings for the weeks after post-Mania 35 Raw:
*
April 15th 2019 (superstar shake-up episode):* 2.665 million
*
April 22nd 2019 (post-superstar shake-up episode):* 2.374 million
*
April 29th 2019:* 2.158 million

It is so damn clear that they have booked the show around the wrong people. This is not just a case of ratings having declined for years. The pattern has been broken in these last 12 months and in a major way. The three most promoted stars in the company in this period have been Becky, Seth, and Kofi. These are three who Raw and Smackdown have been built around and who have been given the best positions on TV. And in this time, WWE has struggled immensely.

There's no blaming booking for this. It's very clear that people just did not give a shit about seeing these superstars as the focal points. And keep in mind, WM35 season did not have a ratings bump for the first time ever. And Network growth collapsed too, which had not happened before. Coming out of Mania 35, it's also very clear most people did not give a shit about the major stories of WM35. That's why you see such a rapid decline in interest. This was a flop Mania that was built to cater to hardcore fans, and WWE fell flat on its face because the wider audience does not give a shit about the same things.

That's not to say people like Seth and Becky don't have their place. It's just that's it way too fucking clear it's not as top stars on the show. They're huge flops. And in Seth's case, we already knew he doesn't work because of what happened in 2015. These are what you call supporting stars. They ain't who you build shows around or who you have main eventing Mania.

Like I been saying, Raw needed an immediate refresh when Reigns went down with cancer. You lose your top guy, who clearly was working a lot better than his replacements in that role, so you now drastically change direction. They should've trialled some new people in that top face role like Strowman or something. Just do something very different and see how it goes. Sticking to Brock, Seth, and then building the main event of Mania around Becky, Ronda, Charlotte was just one dumbass move after another.

And now they're just paying the price for that. Even if there is hope of recovery, it sure as shit isn't happening soon. They'll have to put on a strong year like 2017 was in order to get the growth 2018 did. But is 2020 Raw really gonna accomplish that when the roster is basically the same jabronis who are the direct cause of this shit show in the first place? There's nothing fresh or new on the horizon here. And the damage they've done over the last 12 months isn't something they'll reverse quickly.

It's gonna take months of big feuds and fresh feuds at that to start generating some interest again.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> The year to year drop is substantial.
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.366M | - 14.68% ]
> [ - 0.190D | - 21.76% ]
> 
> I remember thinking last year that they couldn't go much lower, but here we are. I will be shocked if we ever see all 3 hours sub 2M.


At the rate it's going I wouldn't be. 

Any big monday night football games left?


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

The ratings are fine to me. The fact that 2m people are watching this trash show is a miracle to me. This current show shouldn’t have more than 500k viewers imo.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

2m is way more than they deserve.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Exactly lol 2m is way too much and they should be thankful. I am shocked they are not below 1m.


----------



## Jet_420

Lenny Leonard said:


> At the rate it's going I wouldn't be.
> 
> Any big monday night football games left?


Even though I think neither are competing for a playoff spot. There's Giants Vs Eagles before The TLC PPV.


----------



## Kevin Diesel Nash

Does anyone have the long term graph going from 2000 to today showing the trending of Raw ratings? 

This is the best I could find: https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/blnwat/raw_ratings_graph_from_1996_till_2019/


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

This applies to both RAW and Smackdown. Does Vince really think that making both his main roster shows look weak is going to help improve ratings? Sacrificing them for an ephemeral NXT gain seems counterproductive.


----------



## Mongstyle

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> This applies to both RAW and Smackdown. Does Vince really think that making both his main roster shows look weak is going to help improve ratings? Sacrificing them for an ephemeral NXT gain seems counterproductive.


Smackdown will be fine. They won the big match and their big stars were all protected by either winning their match (Reigns and Strowman) or not being part of the brand supremacy in the first place (Fiend and Bryan). Plus, Smackdown on Fox is clearly still too early to tell trends yet with how up and down the ratings are at the moment. And their Mania season is coming so that could be a net positive for them with a potential uptick in ratings.

But Raw is definitely being sabotaged and I don't get it. Like they saw what happened after WM35. Ratings collapsed due to lack of starpower. It's why the Wild Card existed. Since it ended, ratings have already gone down to hovering around 2 million.

Not only did the fuck up the draft by not building a different tone for the show and adding some much needed starpower at the top of the card, they made Raw look shit in this whole build. And sacrificing Raw for NXT isn't smart. It's already struggling and viewership is hovering around 2 million, and despite what some may think, NXT isn't gonna be helped by all this.

This is like the worst way to do exposure. Throwing some guys out there for a few weeks and giving them wins isn't gonna make the wider audience care. The 70% of people who don't watch NXT aren't gonna see these guys they don't know about winning and think, "Oh wow. I should check out NXT." They're just gonna be confused and turn off more from the main shows because you're sending the message they don't mean anything.

NXT is guaranteed to be hovering somewhere between 600-800k again in a few weeks time.

But they've damaged Raw even more in this whole build when it's struggling. The show has lost over a million viewers in the last year. Like the last thing you do is make the show look bad. You're making it less and less meaningful. You may not see the impact overnight but you will see it in time.

If they wanted to help NXT, they really should've waited until post-Mania and built a long-term storyline with their invasion. I'm talking several months where you slowly introduce certain key players into the main shows and then go from there by intertwining things and escalating it into an all out war. No guarantee it'll bring sustained interest, but by showcasing the talent the right way, you may get more people's investment.

As it stands, no one is gonna suddenly start watching NXT because these dudes emerged from their holes for 3 weeks and then returned. But this is an example of WWE booking over the last 2 or so years. They've lost all sense and reason.

Even between 2015-2017, they were still protecting most of the upper card guys. We need only look at how masterfully booked the Survivor Series 2016 elimination match was. Clear sign where they understand how to book the guys and how to protect them. Starting 2018, they've clearly lost their fucking mind. Heck, it may have even started in late 2017.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'm expecting an uptick for RAW tomorrow. The show seems generally well received, plus there should be a ppv bump coupled with an extremely lopsided MNF game which augurs well for RAW..


----------



## RapShepard

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> I'm expecting an uptick for RAW tomorrow. The show seems generally well received, plus there should be a ppv bump coupled with an extremely lopsided MNF game which augurs well for RAW..


I think they'd probably need a couple good shows in a row to see an uptick. Idk if Raw gets "hey this particular episode is going good" benefits anymore


----------



## SPCDRI

RapShepard said:


> I think they'd probably need a couple good shows in a row to see an uptick. Idk if Raw gets "hey this particular episode is going good" benefits anymore


A show being good usually doesn't mean an increase in viewership for that show, or a bunch of word of mouth over phones and computers like, "Hey Jeff, put RAW on tonight. Its a hot show."

A week of positive word of mouth shared in person, in phone calls, on the internet, and rewatches of the clips and segments online can help the next episode, though. 

People here say the ratings are lagging indicators. There's a week of lag, minimum, for a good show producing better numbers.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> A show being good usually doesn't mean an increase in viewership for that show, or a bunch of word of mouth over phones and computers like, "Hey Jeff, put RAW on tonight. Its a hot show."
> 
> A week of positive word of mouth shared in person, in phone calls, on the internet, and rewatches of the clips and segments online can help the next episode, though.
> 
> People here say the ratings are lagging indicators. There's a week of lag, minimum, for a good show producing better numbers.


By and large I would agree with you but I do think there are exceptions to that. One being Raw starting off with something really interesting that retains a larger chunk of those viewers that always tune in for the first few minutes before flipping to something else. Here lately the opening segments have been horrid channel changers that a big chunk of viewers probably immediately tuned out from. I think what they did with Rollins might be noteworthy enough for them to have done a little better number than expected. Survivor Series was pretty disappointing and I think on paper they were heading towards a rough rating with a good MNF matchup. But the Seth segment and MNF being a blowout might have saved them. We’ll see.


----------



## Zappers

It's the first time in long time I fully expect RAW to take a hit. The opening with Seth was really not good at all. The entire show had no direction. That ending, yikes. Should have ended the show after Rey won. Watch it do well. LOL


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.241M [10th] | 0.770D [4th]
H2: 2.190M [11th] | 0.730D [5th]
H3: 1.896M [15th] | 0.630D [6th]

3H: 2.109M | 0.710D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.051M | - 2.28% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 5.19% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.294M | - 13.42% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 13.70% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.345M | - 15.39% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 18.18% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.018M | - 0.85% ]
[ + 0.027D | + 3.95% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.259M | - 10.94% ]
[ - 0.083D | - 10.47% ]*


----------



## llj

Absolutely no post PPV bump. This product is spiralling

Was apparently a good RAW too from what I hear


----------



## Zappers

Guess I was right. Makes sense, bad RAW. Subpar ratings.

Yes, by all means let a non title holder bore the crowd to death with a nonsensical storyline. So now they pay the price.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wait what the hell? That rating is abysmal, seemed like the general consensus was that Survivor Series was a good show, I didn't like it, but most seemingly did.

I enjoyed RAW tho, so that's an exceedingly disappointing rating.


----------



## Kamille

I might get hated for this but bruh haha. Right now you don’t have that golden ticket star or anything that stands out on here. 

Personally I know a TON of people that literally watch RAW only to see Becky lynch. I know she was super burned out doing meet and greets and wrestling nearly every day last week. But when no one else is shining. Can’t afford to not have her on.


----------



## llj

Kamille said:


> I might get hated for this but bruh haha. Right now you don’t have that golden ticket star or anything that stands out on here.
> 
> Personally I know a TON of people that literally watch RAW only to see Becky lynch. I know she was super burned out doing meet and greets and wrestling nearly every day last week. But when no one else is shining. Can’t afford to not have her on.


It's basically the exact same rating as the last few weeks when she was on though.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

It's almost as if making Raw look unimportant at Survivor Series hurt the product...


----------



## DammitChrist

Man, those are depressing numbers considering how good Raw was last night.


----------



## Garty

Regardless of this rating, it's NXT that WWE will have their eyes on this week. If that fails to pop a rating, or worse decrease, than the whole Survivor Series "gimmick" of all 3 brands competing will mean nothing... not that it meant anything anyway because no brand gets anything other than bragging rights. One and done? :shrug


----------



## shadows123

WWE lacks credible stars and that's showing on both Raw and Smackdown.. plus they did show Raw as a bunch of jabronis at Survivor series and acknowledged it on TV as the C show so maybe the rating is karma biting them in the ass :lol Now if only NXT also tanked and someone capture Vince's/Triple H's expressions as the ratings come in..Now that will be the most entertaining thing wwe has ever done this year :lol


----------



## Mongstyle

How much more evidence is needed that Becky Lynch is a flop and an anti-draw? (So is Seth but we've covered that plenty.)

Main evented Survivor Series, plastered over the poster, given plenty of advertisement heading into this event, and no one even cared to tune in the following day to see a follow up. The first hour number is still horrible which again shows there is simply no interest. If anyone cared, at least that number would be higher. But nope.

Like I said, it is going to take months and months of proper booking to rectify how badly they've damaged the show in the last 12 months. And sacrificing Raw at the altar of NXT, which I bet will be back down to 600-700k viewers soon enough, was probably one of the dumbest things you can do to a show that is struggling in terms of retention at the moment.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

DammitC said:


> Man, those are depressing numbers considering how good Raw was last night.


Yeah, I was quietly hoping that the main event would get a decent bump because I really like KO in the top babyface role.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given how badly they've damaged him for all these years though.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *H1: 2.241M [10th] | 0.770D [4th]
> H2: 2.190M [11th] | 0.730D [5th]
> H3: 1.896M [15th] | 0.630D [6th]
> 
> 3H: 2.109M | 0.710D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.051M | - 2.28% ]
> [ - 0.040D | - 5.19% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.294M | - 13.42% ]
> [ - 0.040D | - 13.70% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.345M | - 15.39% ]
> [ - 0.140D | - 18.18% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ - 0.018M | - 0.85% ]
> [ + 0.027D | + 3.95% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Y-Y:
> [ - 0.259M | - 10.94% ]
> [ - 0.083D | - 10.47% ]*


*All-time viewership ranking:

4th lowest 3H

3rd lowest H1

8th lowest H2

6th lowest H3

Lowest Big 4 PPV Fallout*


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

You know how people say there is a delay between a good Raw and a ratings increase? Well, there is also a delay between years of awful Raw shows and a decrease.

I can only speak for myself when I say it took a few months to slowly wean myself off the product completely despite having completely checked out emotionally.

Most people don't quit cold turkey and it doesn't happen quickly. It's a slow erosion of interest until they completely forget about Raw on Mondays. That last part took me six months.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Same number as last week basically (2.1). It was a good show, but it's likely going to take them a minimum of a few months in a row of good shows if not even longer to win more of their audience back.

Bad sign that these numbers are also still in the same neighborhood as SD on FOX.


----------



## Whysoserious?

Rollins really is burning it down! Ratings wise


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

This is down 18.4% in the demo and 15.5% in viewers from last years post SS RAW.


----------



## Kamille

llj said:


> Kamille said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might get hated for this but bruh haha. Right now you don’t have that golden ticket star or anything that stands out on here.
> 
> Personally I know a TON of people that literally watch RAW only to see Becky lynch. I know she was super burned out doing meet and greets and wrestling nearly every day last week. But when no one else is shining. Can’t afford to not have her on.
> 
> 
> 
> It's basically the exact same rating as the last few weeks when she was on though.
Click to expand...

Kind of True. Honestly. At the end of the day I think the whole WWE creative team needs to have a big sit down and look at each star and figure what can they do to use each of them to their strength. 

WWE needs to stop being so safe as well. Like Have someone Run out there with a chainsaw or something lmao idk. Look, if I’m Vince. I would sit there and literally think OK what can I do to have people watch the show and be like holy freaking crap what the hell was that ...that was insane. Then people talk. Word spreads. Viewers tune in ?? 

On a sidenote splitting the brands and only allowing certain stars on certain shows has only hurt them.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> It's the first time in long time I fully expect RAW to take a hit. The opening with Seth was really not good at all. The entire show had no direction. That ending, yikes. Should have ended the show after Rey won. Watch it do well. LOL


Great call. I honestly though they’d do much better.



Kamille said:


> I might get hated for this but bruh haha. Right now you don’t have that golden ticket star or anything that stands out on here.
> 
> Personally I know a TON of people that literally watch RAW only to see Becky lynch. I know she was super burned out doing meet and greets and wrestling nearly every day last week. But when no one else is shining. Can’t afford to not have her on.


Becky would have made zero difference. If anything you have to point the finger at the SS main event in some ways given that they closed the show and the H1 number was abysmal (and it just dropped from there like it always does).


----------



## Kamille

By the way... How exactly was RAW good last night. In three hours you had Rusev get arrested and Rey Mysterio win a title. Not gonna cut it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Going into Raw with the horrendous ending of SS that completely killed the crowd probably didn't help matters at all, either.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Brutal. I expected better considering how weak the NFL game was. Makes you wonder just how much they will rebound post NFL season. The demo was poor for RAW especially that Hour 3 debacle. Keep it up, Vince. :clap


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *All-time viewership ranking:
> 
> 4th lowest 3H
> 
> 3rd lowest H1
> 
> 8th lowest H2
> 
> 6th lowest H3
> 
> Lowest Big 4 PPV Fallout*


*11/25/19

2.109M
0.710D

11/24/14

4.246M
1.520D

In 5 years, RAW lost 50.33% in viewership and 53.29% in demo.
In 5 years, RAW lost 2.137M and 0.810D in absolute terms.*


----------



## Chris90

No PPV bump at all lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Welcome to Monday Might Mediocrity. :heston


----------



## ClintDagger

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *11/25/19
> 
> 2.109M
> 0.710D
> 
> 11/24/14
> 
> 4.246M
> 1.52D*
> 
> In 5 years, RAW lost 50.33% in viewership and 53.29% in demo.[/B]


Man that’s eye opening. I wonder if it will take them 5 years to fall below one million regularly or if the drops are accelerating?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *11/25/19In 5 years, RAW lost 50.33% in viewership and 53.29% in demo.*


That's crazy. 

This shit is a dead business.


----------



## Rozzop

Another where are the stars moan. 

WWE has no main eventers. Everything is ass backward. 

In 1990 you had Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior
In 1997 you had HBK and Hart
In 2001 you had Austin and Rock
In 2011 you had Cena and Punk
In 2019 you have....... Bayley??

Lets be honest, Vince hasn't been booking WWE for a long time. The product is polar opposite of what it used to be.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Bring back bra and panties matches.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> Great call. I honestly though they’d do much better.
> 
> 
> 
> Becky would have made zero difference. If anything you have to point the finger at the SS main event in some ways given that they closed the show and the H1 number was abysmal (and it just dropped from there like it always does).


I was thinking. If they were going to go all in with the Seth opening. Then they should have went really all in. Have Becky be the voice for the woman's side.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SayWhatAgain! said:


> That's crazy.
> 
> This shit is a dead business.


WWE is not cool. :draper2


----------



## Kamille

Keep in mind a lot of these viewers are getting old lol. And were watching back in the attitude era. That’s why it’s important for WWE To always keep the future in mind. always keep the future in mind. These guys aren’t going to be watching forever. 

Not that I care but for their own sake that’s why they need to also focus on kids and young teens. That’s why I feel for Seth lol. For older people he sounds like a corny dork. To a kid he sounds like a hero. I’m getting off topic now... have a good day guys.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kamille said:


> Keep in mind a lot of these viewers are getting old lol. And were watching back in the attitude era. That’s why it’s important for WWE To always keep the future in mind. always keep the future in mind. These guys aren’t going to be watching forever.
> 
> Not that I care but for their own sake that’s why they need to also focus on kids and young teens. That’s why I feel for Seth lol.* For older people he sounds like a corny dork*.


That doesn't make sense. The older people is WWE's biggest demo these days.

Becky is the only World Champion left from WM. For all of this overness I hear about, she's had 7 months to draw a rating for Raw, and well, it hasn't happened.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> I was thinking. If they were going to go all in with the Seth opening. Then they should have went really all in. Have Becky be the voice for the woman's side.


I agree. From a story perspective they either should have had Seth be a dick to Becky as well for extra heat on him or had Becky in the ring with Seth saying the same types of things to the women and do a double heel turn. My guess is they didn’t know how to handle it so they left her off the show altogether.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

As much as Rey vs AJ Styles was a dream match for me, WWE’s 50/50 booking kills all interest in it. Why should I care that Rey was given a consolation prize after getting beat by Brock?

And Rey’s a popular star (and AJ for that matter), but in the WWE hierarchy, these guys both got fed to Brock (both at Survivor Series) and we’re seeing two leftovers fight each other.

I think both these guys could’ve easily drawn a better rating, had they been made a bigger deal, but I really think this is the end result of making Brock such a big deal overall. You wind up with potential stars being mediocre stars.


----------



## Kamille

So true on both parts. WWE dropped a ball with that final match. When you drag out a pay-per-view event over five hours and in the fifth hour you expect 40-year-old Shayna bazler to perform on a big stage and do miracles. You’re asking for it. There was no chemistry. Y’all saw Sasha and Becky in hell in a cell (best match of 2019). That’s proper planning. 

Secondly haha absolutely she should have been outside with the rest of raw. Helll, WWE coulda rolled with that and had Becky get pissed at Seth and play off it.


----------



## ClintDagger

Kamille said:


> That’s why I feel for Seth lol. For older people he sounds like a corny dork.


I think you have it crossed up. It’s the younger people that think Seth, Becky, Roman, Brock, et. al. are corny & lame. It’s why their audience skews so old. The old people clearly dig the Seth’s & Becky’s of the world.


----------



## Mongstyle

Rozzop said:


> Another where are the stars moan.
> 
> WWE has no main eventers. Everything is ass backward.
> 
> In 1990 you had Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior
> In 1997 you had HBK and Hart
> In 2001 you had Austin and Rock
> In 2011 you had Cena and Punk
> In 2019 you have....... Bayley??
> 
> Lets be honest, Vince hasn't been booking WWE for a long time. The product is polar opposite of what it used to be.


Lol at listing Punk. He didn't do jack. And neither did HBK or Hart back in 1997. 

HBK was more of an asset during 2005-2010 if anything because DX actually did good business in 2006 and again in 2009.


----------



## rbl85

Meltzer said on the daily update that Survivor Series did 200K google research.

Usually a big 4 PPV do 500k or more research.

So that's maybe one of the reason for Raw's rating, Survivors Series generated way less interest than the past years.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

It comes back to the booking anyway. If Steve Austin was booked like Seth Rollins, he would not have been a draw. It's all well and good blaming talent that you don't like, but at the end of the day they are just puppets, it's the man pulling the strings that deserves the blame. The true face of the company.

:vince5


----------



## Rozzop

Mongstyle said:


> Rozzop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another where are the stars moan.
> 
> WWE has no main eventers. Everything is ass backward.
> 
> In 1990 you had Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior
> In 1997 you had HBK and Hart
> In 2001 you had Austin and Rock
> In 2011 you had Cena and Punk
> In 2019 you have....... Bayley??
> 
> Lets be honest, Vince hasn't been booking WWE for a long time. The product is polar opposite of what it used to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol at listing Punk. He didn't do jack. And neither did HBK or Hart back in 1997.
> 
> HBK was more of an asset during 2005-2010 if anything because DX actually did good business in 2006 and again in 2009.
Click to expand...

You're right, but they had triple the amount of viewers than these current lot have.


----------



## Kamille

Showstopper said:


> Kamille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind a lot of these viewers are getting old lol. And were watching back in the attitude era. That’s why it’s important for WWE To always keep the future in mind. always keep the future in mind. These guys aren’t going to be watching forever.
> 
> Not that I care but for their own sake that’s why they need to also focus on kids and young teens. That’s why I feel for Seth lol.* For older people he sounds like a corny dork*.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense. The older people is WWE's biggest demo these days.
> 
> Becky is the only World Champion left from WM. For all of this overness I hear about, she's had 7 months to draw a rating for Raw, and well, it hasn't happened.
Click to expand...

Saying draw a rating is pretty silly. Just for an experiment they should remove Becky from WWE and then you want to talk about low ratings?? By your logic. Not one of these damn wrestlers in the past two years has drawn a rating. 

If you want a quick example on her impact look at last weeks nxt. Topping aew. First time ever. Only difference was her being there. 

And when I talk about the older people laughing at seths corny lines. Don’t over analyze. A hardcore wrestler guru at 28 Is going to laugh if Seth drops a promo saying “guys I work really hard for this. Hard work pays off”. To The 28-year-old it’s going to sound damn corny ...to a young kid just getting into wrestling it’s going to sound like a strong heroic statement. I’m talking to much it’s good banter though. ????


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kamille said:


> Saying draw a rating is pretty silly. Just for an experiment they should remove Becky from WWE and then you want to talk about low ratings?? By your logic. Not one of these damn wrestlers in the past two years has drawn a rating.


Um, yeah. None of them have. Raw and SD have been losing viewers for awhile now. That includes everyone.



> If you want a quick example on her impact look at last weeks nxt. Topping aew. First time ever. Only difference was her being there.


Or because Triple H literally invited the entire main roster to invade NXT at the end of Raw. And apparently the only reason NXT won was because of the overrun, which Becky wasn't in.



> And when I talk about the older people laughing at seths corny lines. Don’t over analyze. A hardcore wrestler guru at 28 Is going to laugh if Seth drops a promo saying “guys I work really hard for this. Hard work pays off”. To The 28-year-old it’s going to sound damn corny ...to a young kid just getting into wrestling it’s going to sound like a strong heroic statement. I’m talking to much it’s good banter though. ????


They go by what their strongest age groups are, and right now that is older people. They're the ones watching the most.


----------



## Mongstyle

Rozzop said:


> You're right, but they had triple the amount of viewers than these current lot have.


That's got nothing to do with Punk.

The only noticeable bump in business WWE got from years prior was when Batista and Cena came on the scene in the mid-00s.

Other than that, it's basically been a steady decline until mid-2015 where there a big drop during Seth's run, which then stabilized to a decline in line with before between 2016-2018, and now the last year there's been another big drop. The only bumps during 2010s has been thanks to The Rock between 2011-2013 whenever he showed up, and during early 2014 where Batista showed up.

Hence why listing Punk as a "star" is laughable. He had no impact. His peak angle during the Summer of 2011 resulted in business being down from 2010 during the same period. The big difference maker in the early '10s was The Rock. If not for him, WM27 likely would've done less than 750k. His few appearances yielded some big results which helped them ride the wave quite a bit.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Showstopper said:


> Or because Triple H literally invited the entire main roster to invade NXT at the end of Raw. And apparently the only reason NXT won was because of the overrun, which Becky wasn't in.


They still would have won, just by a smaller margin, according to wrestling observer anyway.

Apparently her promo and match with Rhea Ripley drew over a million viewers and tons of people switched to AEW after it, again, according to wrestling observer. She wasn't the reason people tuned in, as like you said, nobody was named, but people stuck around and watched her before switching over. 

Blaming her is just as dumb as blaming Roman or Bray or Seth or whoever. Bad booking is bad booking. WWE have lost a lot good will with fans over the last several years. Blame the puppet master, not the puppets. 

(and no, I don't mean Bray Wyatt :lol)

People continually blame talent when the problem is staring you all right in the face.

:vince5


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SayWhatAgain! said:


> They still would have won, just by a smaller margin, according to wrestling observer anyway.
> 
> Apparently her promo and match with Rhea Ripley drew over a million viewers and tons of people switched to AEW after it, again, according to wrestling observer. She wasn't the reason people tuned in, as like you said, nobody was named, but people stuck around and watched her before switching over.
> 
> Blaming her is just as dumb as blaming Roman or Bray or Seth or whoever. Bad booking is bad booking. WWE have lost a lot good will with fans over the last several years. Blame the puppet master, not the puppets.
> 
> (and no, I don't mean Bray Wyatt :lol)


I agree that it's on Vince more than anyone else, especially when you consider that ratings for Raw have been declining for 20 years. My post was in response to people blaming it on individuals on the show yet propping up their favorite as the lone draw, when no one has drawn. That's all.


----------



## Ace

Lmfao job to a developmental brand and this is what happens :lmao

Rollins was right, they fucking suck.


----------



## Chan Hung

Once WWE decided to push brand over stars it was over. They sacrificed potential mega stars for weak defeats all In the sake of devaluing them below the brand itself. It's easy, If the WWE doesn't care about its stars, the fans dont.


----------



## Ace

Chan Hung said:


> Once WWE decided to push brand over stars it was over. They sacrificed potential mega stars for weak defeats all In the sake of devaluing them below the brand itself. It's easy, If the WWE doesn't care about its stars, the fans dont.


Raw got their ass whipped by a brand that is deemed as developmental and is getting their asses handed to them by AEW each week.

They better hope NXT beats Dynamite this week or this was a colossal fuck up.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jeez, give it a FUCKING rest already.

Over the past month, one world title was given to the biggest name in the company atm whereas the other world title was given to the hottest character the WWE has had recently; but yet the ratings are STILL terrible.

It does NOT matter who is the world champion. WWE will still struggle to keep fans from tuning out because they continue to deliver a lackluster/mediocre product on a weekly basis. The only chance they've got to win some of their audience back is if they continue to write out good shows every week like they did for Raw last night, which is probably going to take them several months to do.

NOBODY on the main roster is a big draw ratings-wise. Enough with using statistics to suit your twisted narrative against talents you dislike in order to justify pointing the finger and blaming the wrestlers themselves for the low ratings.

It's pretty obvious at this point that the ratings decreasing over the past several years is more of a company/creative problem than it is an issue with the individual talents.


----------



## ClintDagger

SayWhatAgain! said:


> It comes back to the booking anyway. If Steve Austin was booked like Seth Rollins, he would not have been a draw. It's all well and good blaming talent that you don't like, but at the end of the day they are just puppets, it's the man pulling the strings that deserves the blame. The true face of the company.
> 
> :vince5


I mean this is kind of making your point but the booking from Vince has ALWAYS been bad. Austin was booked like a geek thanks to Vince and was a nobody because of it. The only reason Austin broke out was because in a time of desperation Vince let Austin be himself and Stone Cold was born. I think last night was a similar situation for Seth where Vince threw his hands up due to the rejection of Seth and let Seth be more himself and it worked a lot better than the forced babyface character we’ve been seeing the past few years.


DammitC said:


> Jeez, give it a FUCKING rest already.
> 
> Over the past month, one world title was given to the biggest name in the company atm whereas the other world title was given to the hottest character the WWE has had recently; but yet the ratings are STILL terrible.
> 
> It does NOT matter who is the world champion. WWE will still struggle to keep fans from tuning out because they continue to deliver a lackluster/mediocre product on a weekly basis. The only chance they've got to win some of their audience back is if they continue to write out good shows every week like they did for Raw last night, which is probably going to take them several months to do.
> 
> NOBODY on the main roster is a big draw ratings-wise. Enough with using statistics to suit your twisted narrative against talents you dislike in order to justify pointing the finger and blaming the wrestlers themselves for the low ratings.
> 
> It's pretty obvious at this point that the ratings decreasing over the past several years is more of a company/creative problem than it is an issue with the individual talents.


I think it’s a problem with creative AND the individual talents. Unless you are seeing someone with big star potential that is being held down. I for one am not seeing that. Would top notch booking help for a better show? Sure. But give me a roster with huge star type talent and bad booking versus the alternative. I mean go back and watch those late 90s Raws. The writing and booking is pretty bad 90% of the time but when an Austin, Rock, DX come out you forget about all of the garbage. I think we’ve seen during the history of WWF that you can’t keep good talent down. A Ringmaster will become a Stone Cold, a Rocky Maivia will become The Rock, a Hunter Hearst Helmsley will become a Triple H, Ruthless Agression John Cena will become the Dr. of Thuganomics, Deacon Batista will become The Animal, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Rozzop

Mongstyle said:


> Rozzop said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, but they had triple the amount of viewers than these current lot have.
> 
> 
> 
> That's got nothing to do with Punk.
> 
> The only noticeable bump in business WWE got from years prior was when Batista and Cena came on the scene in the mid-00s.
> 
> Other than that, it's basically been a steady decline until mid-2015 where there a big drop during Seth's run, which then stabilized to a decline in line with before between 2016-2018, and now the last year there's been another big drop. The only bumps during 2010s has been thanks to The Rock between 2011-2013 whenever he showed up, and during early 2014 where Batista showed up.
> 
> Hence why listing Punk as a "star" is laughable. He had no impact. His peak angle during the Summer of 2011 resulted in business being down from 2010 during the same period. The big difference maker in the early '10s was The Rock. If not for him, WM27 likely would've done less than 750k. His few appearances yielded some big results which helped them ride the wave quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Okay, I get you don't like Punk. Am neither here nor there.

My point was he is a star in relation to Bayley. Jeff Hardy is a star in relation to Bayley. Diesiel is a star....... Etc


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

WWE has turned the brand into what draws for WWE but now the brand itself is faltering and I'm not sure what they can turn to.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Mongstyle said:


> Hence why listing Punk as a "star" is laughable. He had no impact. His peak angle during the Summer of 2011 resulted in business being down from 2010 during the same period. The big difference maker in the early '10s was The Rock. If not for him, WM27 likely would've done less than 750k. His few appearances yielded some big results which helped them ride the wave quite a bit.


I can agree that he wasn’t a major draw, but he was a star. They put him on talk shows, his pipebomb promo went viral, 2K infamously wanted him on the cover of the videogame instead of Sheamus, and he had appeal outside of WWE.


----------



## Dolorian

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> WWE has turned the brand into what draws for WWE but now the brand itself is faltering and I'm not sure what they can turn to.


A brand is only as good as it's products (shows in this case). You can only ride on a brand name for so long until the lack of good products (shows) catches up.


----------



## Seafort

Mongstyle said:


> How much more evidence is needed that Becky Lynch is a flop and an anti-draw? (So is Seth but we've covered that plenty.)
> 
> Main evented Survivor Series, plastered over the poster, given plenty of advertisement heading into this event, and no one even cared to tune in the following day to see a follow up. The first hour number is still horrible which again shows there is simply no interest. If anyone cared, at least that number would be higher. But nope.
> 
> Like I said, it is going to take months and months of proper booking to rectify how badly they've damaged the show in the last 12 months. And sacrificing Raw at the altar of NXT, which I bet will be back down to 600-700k viewers soon enough, was probably one of the dumbest things you can do to a show that is struggling in terms of retention at the moment.


It wasn’t dumb at all. RAW is not up for renewal for five years. NXT is up much sooner. If WWE can get NXT consistently above 1.5M without drastically hurting the other two shows, they’ll snatch up a third, huge TV deal.

Secondary objective is to get TNT to cancel AEW and have Khan throw in the towel. That will ultimately lower talent costs for WWE, and further increase profit.


----------



## rbl85

Seafort said:


> It wasn’t dumb at all. RAW is not up for renewal for five years. NXT is up much sooner. If WWE can get NXT consistently above 1.5M without drastically hurting the other two shows, they’ll snatch up a third, huge TV deal.
> 
> *Secondary objective is to get TNT to cancel AEW and have Khan throw in the towel.* That will ultimately lower talent costs for WWE, and further increase profit.


Except that TNT doesn't care if NXT does better ratings than AEW as long as AEW does the ratings that TNT expect them to do.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

_*When you keep on producing bad shows, of course the ratings is going to show for it. *_


----------



## llj

The WWE brand itself is ratings poison. As much as we try to pin it on any one person, the fact is we've seen them trot out Brock, Austin, Hogan, Flair all the big draws of the past and they've all had underwhelming effects on the ratings this year. With the exception of Rock (a true crossover star and worldwide name in Hollywood movies), none of them were able to produce a significant bump.

People just look at the company "WWE" and just tune out now. A lot of them just quit watching wrestling altogether, so bad is the product for the biggest wrestling company in the world.

Face it, pro wrestling is just a niche genre now fighting for scraps on the table.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Remember when Vince was giving away money on raw? Might be time to bring that back


----------



## llj

Lenny Leonard said:


> Remember when Vince was giving away money on raw? Might be time to bring that back


Might be time for them to dust off this ol' TV tactic to entice viewers to watch:


----------



## Kamille

Times have changed and things aren’t going so well in OUR eyes. But maybe we need to look back at the old and days and just say wow. That was quite an era. 

Quick example. The rock coming on smackdown poppin off his old lines. Everybody in the crowd was reciting his quotes along with him lmao. U never see that now. 

Times have changed and what we think are sucky ratings. USA is totally thrilled with lol. Even FOX is content. Idk. It’s been a huge drop since the old days but again so much has changed over time. WWE needs to step it up. But at the end of the day maybe sometimes we all need to sit back and say. For 2019 pre-scripted fake wrestling drawing these numbers is actually impressive. 

I drank a bit. I could be talking out my ass but when I drink I look at things a little differently than normal. ??


----------



## SPCDRI

They were down 1 percent in total viewership from last week coming off of what is supposed to be a Big 4 PPV bump, with an NXT invasion, against one of Monday Night Football's biggest blowouts of the season.
Monday Night Football has been stinking up the joint every other week with these 2, 3, 4 touchdown leads going into half time. 
WWE couldn't have asked for a better game to fight than Ravens/Rams. It was a TOTAL blowout. 28-6 going into halftime and the game was 35-6 going into the 4th quarter for the third hour of RAW, 
a total snoozer. For them to be be below 2 million against that is some truly frightening stuff. 

5 years ago, their PPV bump show for Survivor Series doubled the total viewership and double the 18-49 demo. They have chopped their audience in half in the past 5 years. 

The recent shows are even showing RAW is losing the over-50 year old viewers, the 55, 65, 75+ year old, hardcore, watching WWF/WWE on television for 30+ years, gonna literally die hard in front of their televisions watching Monday Night RAW diehards, are leaving. They can't even keep those people anymore!


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> Lowest Big 4 PPV Fallout


The Raw thread on this very site, which is where the supposed "diehards" still congregate, has 51 pages.

WWE is dead. This time next year all 3 hours will be below 2 mils. It'll probably happen sometime in December, but on a regular basis all 3 hours will be under 2mils starting in 2020.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Lenny Leonard said:


> Remember when Vince was giving away money on raw? Might be time to bring that back


Why did they stop that? Oh, yeah. "Paul, I can't feel my legs!"


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> I agree that it's on Vince more than anyone else, especially when you consider that ratings for Raw have been declining for 20 years. .


A steady decline isn't a problem. A rapid decline is. When you lose 50% of your audience in the last 5 years, the last 5 years are a problem. Not the 15 years before that.

What has the show been about the last 5 years? Who's been featured the most? You want your ratings killers, look there.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Randy Lahey said:


> A steady decline isn't a problem. A rapid decline is. When you lose 50% of your audience in the last 5 years, the last 5 years are a problem. Not the 15 years before that.
> 
> What has the show been about the last 5 years? Who's been featured the most? You want your ratings killers, look there.


Speaking of the last 5 years, it's been 5 years since The Undertakers wrestlemania streak ended. I really think that is an understated reason for the ratings decline. It was probably the last thing left in wrestling people could believe in


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *11/25/19
> 
> 2.109M
> 0.710D
> 
> 11/24/14
> 
> 4.246M
> 1.520D
> 
> In 5 years, RAW lost 50.33% in viewership and 53.29% in demo.
> In 5 years, RAW lost 2.137M and 0.810D in absolute terms.*


That drop is staggering and I doubt that they ever return.

I just wanted to voice my appreciation for the work you do in these ratings threads. I anticipate your very useful posts each and every week.. You're the MVP of the board as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. :clap


----------



## Trivette

SPCDRI said:


> The recent shows are even showing RAW is losing the over-50 year old viewers, the 55, 65, 75+ year old, hardcore, watching WWF/WWE on television for 30+ years, gonna literally die hard in front of their televisions watching Monday Night RAW diehards, are leaving. They can't even keep those people anymore!


Not to be morbid, but those people are literally dying off. A good friend of mine passed last year, he was in his 60's but still watched everything, even Impact. He never missed a broadcast of WWE right up until the end.

The younger demographic did not grow up during the Golden Age and do not have the same emotional attachment as older fans. Nothing short of substantive, compelling, (and consistent!) storytelling will make people stick around. And instead of offering anything remotely like that, we get Rusev/Lana/Lashley doing a Jerry Springer routine.


----------



## Garty

It's time to make some phone-calls. Dust off the old go-to talent. Throw some mega-money to The Rock. Pretend like it's still The Attitude Era because yes, it's almost that time again...

Raw-iversary will be January 6th, or January 13th (The debut was January 11th, so it kind of falls in between for 2020).

:vince$ That'll get the ratings up dammit!


----------



## Deathiscoming

That's what happens when you centre your shows around a bunch of women, Cringy Lynch and portray them like stars all while you reduce the men's divisions to crap like forced babyface Rollins, Kofi, New Day, Corbin etc and talent like Orton, KO, and AJ Styles flounder in midcard obscurity. The WWE deserve even fewer viewers for having pushed trash like Cringy Lynch and women's wrestling opening and closing every Raw and multiple PPVs. You deserve it!


----------



## ClintDagger

Deathiscoming said:


> That's what happens when you centre your shows around a bunch of women, Cringy Lynch and portray them like stars all while you reduce the men's divisions to crap like forced babyface Rollins, Kofi, New Day, Corbin etc and talent like Orton, KO, and AJ Styles flounder in midcard obscurity. The WWE deserve even fewer viewers for having pushed trash like Cringy Lynch and women's wrestling opening and closing every Raw and multiple PPVs. You deserve it!


They paid dearly for the big Becky push and putting Ronda, Becky, and Charlotte in the WM main event. Two things happened during that time that had never happened before. 1) They had virtually zero ratings bump once the NFL ended, and 2) they had virtually zero ratings bump for the RTWM. I honestly believe that sped up their ratings decline by two years. For the first time ever Vince centered the company around something that he knew wasn't good for business all in the hopes that WWE would get good press from an agenda driven media complex. That approach was a massive failure yet it doesn’t seem like he learned anything from it.


----------



## xio8ups

But its no better time to be a wrestling fan "Dave meltzer"


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The thing that drove away the most amount of viewers was the simultaneous push of Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins in 2015/2016, that point LITERALLY can't be argued. I'm looking at the numbers, and that is where it all started. 

As it was mentioned before, the post Survivor Series 2014 edition of RAW did 4.2 million viewers, however, that's a bit of an anomaly since it was the night after Sting's return, fine, let's go back to 2013, they did 4.1 million viewers coming off of a Survivor Series that people generally hated. 

What did they do in 2015? 2.9 Million viewers. That is not a typo, they lost 1.2-1.3 million viewers. All of this coincides with the push of Rollins&Reigns as 2015 was Rollins' major title reign, and they were still going hard with the Reigns push. The post Mania 32 RAW did 4 million viewers, down 1.3 million viewers from Mania 31.

I don't think it's Rollins' fault, as they booked him HORRIBLY during his title reign, but the facts are the facts. You can say ratings go down every year, and that's true to an extent, but the astronomical dropped happened in 2015-2016, and they are still dropping year over year.


----------



## henrymark

Losing 50% of your viewers in a 5 year span is a remarkable fuck up. 

Quite an achievement with the rise of social media where exposure is as high as ever. 

Maybe Vince would rather have WWE die with him. Remember, the show is booked for him only. He might not care at this point if it dies.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> A steady decline isn't a problem. A rapid decline is. When you lose 50% of your audience in the last 5 years, the last 5 years are a problem. Not the 15 years before that.
> 
> What has the show been about the last 5 years? Who's been featured the most? You want your ratings killers, look there.


A steady 15 (and now 20) year decline is a problem. That's where it all started, and continued...for 15 years.

The show for the last 5 years has been about an old as fuck, out of touch old man, fucking up everyone's booking and making a complete and utter joke out of his company year after year.


----------



## .christopher.

The Inbred Goatman said:


> The thing that drove away the most amount of viewers was the simultaneous push of Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins in 2015/2016, that point LITERALLY can't be argued. I'm looking at the numbers, and that is where it all started.
> 
> As it was mentioned before, the post Survivor Series 2014 edition of RAW did 4.2 million viewers, however, that's a bit of an anomaly since it was the night after Sting's return, fine, let's go back to 2013, they did 4.1 million viewers coming off of a Survivor Series that people generally hated.
> 
> What did they do in 2015? 2.9 Million viewers. That is not a typo, they lost 1.2-1.3 million viewers. All of this coincides with the push of Rollins&Reigns as 2015 was Rollins' major title reign, and they were still going hard with the Reigns push. The post Mania 32 RAW did 4 million viewers, down 1.3 million viewers from Mania 31.
> 
> I don't think it's Rollins' fault, as they booked him HORRIBLY during his title reign, but the facts are the facts. You can say ratings go down every year, and that's true to an extent, but the astronomical dropped happened in 2015-2016, and they are still dropping year over year.


I mean, that's what did it for me.

I have not watched a WWE show in its entirety since they had that charisma vacuum Reigns bury Bryan at Fastlane (2015 I think).

I saw where this was heading with Cena 2.0 and I was out.


----------



## shadows123

ClintDagger said:


> They paid dearly for the big Becky push and putting Ronda, Becky, and Charlotte in the WM main event. Two things happened during that time that had never happened before. 1) They had virtually zero ratings bump once the NFL ended, and 2) they had virtually zero ratings bump for the RTWM. I honestly believe that sped up their ratings decline by two years. For the first time ever Vince centered the company around something that he knew wasn't good for business all in the hopes that WWE would get good press from an agenda driven media complex. That approach was a massive failure yet it doesn’t seem like he learned anything from it.


I wouldnt say the women alone are the problem. The men should take a lot for the blame on this one. The same freaking guys are in main event year after year after year. They look the same, have the same outfit, music etc. They also wrestle the same match every week, cut the same boring dull promos...I am surprised wwe hasnt crashed and burned already for the mediocrity they've put out in the past 4-5 years... Blaming the women, who have at best been in the spotlight for what a year now is a bit of the stretch. Yes, as expected, they havent exactly been good for business...But havent wwe drilled it into their fans for years that women dont matter and shouldnt be taken seriously..Its only karma coming around now :lol


----------



## ThEmB0neZ

Deathiscoming said:


> That's what happens when you centre your shows around a bunch of women, Cringy Lynch and portray them like stars all while you reduce the men's divisions to crap like forced babyface Rollins, Kofi, New Day, Corbin etc and talent like Orton, KO, and AJ Styles flounder in midcard obscurity. The WWE deserve even fewer viewers for having pushed trash like Cringy Lynch and women's wrestling opening and *closing every Raw* and multiple PPVs. You deserve it!




Becky wasn't even on last night? Why was the ratings worse then last week? Who is being pushed if the women weren't used? Men still get significant more time then the women. Seth and Roman are still going to be the top star with no women you clown. 

>Cringy Lynch and women's wrestling opening and closing every Raw and multiple PPVs. You deserve it

Becky has only main event'd RAW once since WM and was only in 3 main event PPV's this year. What the fuck are you talking about? Why were the ratings terrible on RAW last year? Becky was on SD the whole year. Women were main eventing in 2016 and ratings gained. This notion that women kill ratings is fucking stupid. The women are still a minority. They get less segments and way less TV time then men. They had 1 women's match on RAW this week. What's so different from this to 15 years ago. You clowns are acting like it's an all women show when the women get 2 segments on a 3 hour show. This is some sexist shit. 

>Orton, KO, and AJ Styles flounder in midcard obscurity

KO has been pushed this whole year since he returned what the fuck are you talking about? AJ? Did you see the ratings on SD when he was champ? If you think the ratings are increasing that much if Randy, KO and AJ are champion you are delusional AF. I can't believe you are acting like those 3 are being misused because they aren't the champ. Brock's the champ. Where is he? He's the champ with no women or not. 



Tell us who would be champion if there was no women's division? Tell us how 0 women is going to make WWE more creative and create more stars? This is the dumbest take i've ever seen. The women aren't changing which men are pushed. So dumb


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Got bored and dug up viewership numbers for every RAW after Wrestlemania going back to 2009, you can make of it what you will. The Majority of these are facing NCAA finals competition which do monster viewership, I note the ones that don't.

*RAW 4/6/09(Orton Vs HHH) - 5.95 Million Viewers

RAW 3/29/10(Michaels Vs Taker II) - 5.53 Million Viewers

RAW 4/4/11(Miz Vs. Cena, Rock Guest Host) - 5.62 Million Viewers

RAW 4/3/12(Rock Vs Cena) - 5.02 Million Viewers

RAW 4/7/13(First of 3 Hour Era, Rock Vs Cena II) - 4.61 Million Viewers

RAW 4/7/14(Orton Vs. Bryan Vs. Batista, End of the Streak) - 5.14 Million Viewers

RAW 3/30/15(Rollins Cashes in on Lesnar/Reigns, No NCAA competition) - 5.35 Million Viewers, Meltzer notes 2014 number is more impressive because of competition.

RAW 4/4/16(HHH Vs. Reigns) - 4.079 Million Viewers

RAW 4/3/17(Undertaker Vs. Reigns) - 3.75 Million Viewers

RAW 4/9/18 (Lesnar Vs. Reigns II, No NCAA Competition) - 3.903 Million Viewers, Meltzer notes 2017's number is more impressive because of competition.

RAW 4/8/17(Ronda Vs. Becky Vs. Charlotte) - 2.924 Million Viewers*

Interesting when it's laid out like that.


----------



## Rozzop

Deathiscoming said:


> That's what happens when you centre your shows around a bunch of women, Cringy Lynch and portray them like stars all while you reduce the men's divisions to crap like forced babyface Rollins, Kofi, New Day, Corbin etc and talent like Orton, KO, and AJ Styles flounder in midcard obscurity. The WWE deserve even fewer viewers for having pushed trash like Cringy Lynch and women's wrestling opening and closing every Raw and multiple PPVs. You deserve it!


This guy gets it


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

Raw is terrible. This is what you get with vanilla midget action.:mj4

If you want the rate to go up, then bring back more Segments, less Wrestling, more backstage attacks, more big guys, sexy diva action, more story center product, less midget geeks, and more promos.


----------



## Kamille

Blaming the women ???. “Cringy Lynch.” 

She’s legit the only reason most people still watch WWE. She so big she deserves to leave and do other stuff. Becky gets paid more for doing stuff outside WWE than anyone even makes from that show. Girl sells more merchandise than any “dude” on the roster. 

How about this. Instead of you nasty ass boys saying Becky isn’t increasing ratings. Let’s put it this way... if you take her out of the company there is no WWE anymore... you want to talk about ratings dropping???

Check it out morons. HOW ABOUT THIS. It’s the freakin year 2020!!! has anybody thought that maybe people simply aren’t interested in totally pre-scripted totally fake half naked men touching each other?????? 

Times change people. Fact that anyone is even into totally fake pre-scripted wrestling events in the year 2020 is baffling in itself. Me and all my friends only watch the show because Becky is a bad ass that gives an awesome representation of strong confident women. 

You ugly mutts don’t get it. “ Maybe it’s this person ..maybe it’s that person... maybe it’s the booking... Maybe it’s the women”. 

Maybe it’s the goddamn year 2020 and people just aren’t interested in this corny fake wrestling anymore. Bam. ????


----------



## Rozzop

Kamille said:


> Blaming the women ???. “Cringy Lynch.”
> 
> She’s legit the only reason most people still watch WWE. She so big she deserves to leave and do other stuff. Becky gets paid more for doing stuff outside WWE than anyone even makes from that show. Girl sells more merchandise than any “dude” on the roster.
> 
> How about this. Instead of you nasty ass boys saying Becky isn’t increasing ratings. Let’s put it this way... if you take her out of the company there is no WWE anymore... you want to talk about ratings dropping???
> 
> Check it out morons. HOW ABOUT THIS. It’s the freakin year 2020!!! has anybody thought that maybe people simply aren’t interested in totally pre-scripted totally fake half naked men touching each other??????
> 
> Times change people. Fact that anyone is even into totally fake pre-scripted wrestling events in the year 2020 is baffling in itself. Me and all my friends only watch the show because Becky is a bad ass that gives an awesome representation of strong confident women.
> 
> You ugly mutts don’t get it. “ Maybe it’s this person ..maybe it’s that person... maybe it’s the booking... Maybe it’s the women”.
> 
> Maybe it’s the goddamn year 2020 and people just aren’t interested in this corny fake wrestling anymore. Bam. ????


Deluded. 

I understand being a fan of someone. But you cant even reason with posts like these. 

If this womens revolution had increased viewership then fair enough. But it hasnt
Its halved the audience. Thats a fact. 

Has it brought any new viewers in? No. 

"B-b-b-but I love Becky"

I loved Lance Storm. But I can recognise he wasnt popular with a lot of other people. 

The majority are not interested in Becky, Charlotte, Bayley. Natalya and all the other charisma vacuums. 

Its not all on the women. The men are booked to shit to. But to say that WWE would be dead without Becky is hilarious.


----------



## Kamille

Point is you geeks go at becky all the time. You are literally going at the most popular person in the entire freaking business. 

Think about how stupid that is... fix yourself. You don’t blame The most popular person in the whole business for whatever the hell is going on.

B B B B no one likes the women!!! The crowd has dropped to half!!!. No honestly it’s 2020 and people are getting bored of watching two scripted sweaty half naked men fake fondle each other. Wrestling was cool in the 90’s. It’s probably no ones fault. Just like reality shows are now what people love now....preferences change over time

Sorry for coming at you hard... but I am so sick and tired of people going at this becky woman and the women in general

You have your opinion I have mine. 

Try to think about what you’re saying before you type it. ??


----------



## Rozzop

So you are not going to even entertain the idea that the womens revoluton has impacted on the viewers?

Okay, fair enough.


----------



## Stadhart02

Becky ironically walking out like man aka vince doesn't gel with anyone - women's wrestling is half way through the show, piss break niche. Stupid feminist can't grasp that women's sport are crap - some morons will pretend to themselves they like it to curry favour with women (just lol) but everyone else knows it is a piss break. They used to be good looking so watch the entrance snd then bog break but now it is feet face Bayley and a whole host of women with plastic faces - I am shocked anyone finds them attractive tbh


----------



## ClintDagger

shadows123 said:


> I wouldnt say the women alone are the problem. The men should take a lot for the blame on this one. The same freaking guys are in main event year after year after year. They look the same, have the same outfit, music etc. They also wrestle the same match every week, cut the same boring dull promos...I am surprised wwe hasnt crashed and burned already for the mediocrity they've put out in the past 4-5 years... Blaming the women, who have at best been in the spotlight for what a year now is a bit of the stretch. Yes, as expected, they havent exactly been good for business...But havent wwe drilled it into their fans for years that women dont matter and shouldnt be taken seriously..Its only karma coming around now :lol


Oh hey, I want to be clear. The women aren’t the only problem and in fact they are a much, much smaller problem than the men in the grand scheme of things. The men are to blame for the ratings fall from ‘02-‘18. The women are really only to blame for the RTWM debacle. If there were any big time men’s stars then none of this would be an issue.



Kamille said:


> You are literally going at the most popular person in the entire freaking business.


Becky is nowhere near the most popular person in the wrestling business. She’s a niche act with a rabid fanbase but very little broad appeal. And you calling truth tellers “geeks” is proof that you are getting obliterated in this discussion.


----------



## raymond1985

It was Lesnar who drew those massive post-WM numbers in 2014 and 2015. He drew the highest quarter for the 2014 show because people wanted to see the fallout from the streak. The 2015 show was based around him. 

He was fresh back then. He's not going to draw those numbers these days because he has become stale. 

I'm not surprised that RAW's numbers are heading below 2 million. They haven't created a proper star in years. They push the wrong talent and make things worse with how they book them.


----------



## shadows123

ClintDagger said:


> Oh hey, I want to be clear. The women aren’t the only problem and in fact they are a much, much smaller problem than the men in the grand scheme of things. The men are to blame for the ratings fall from ‘02-‘18. The women are really only to blame for the RTWM debacle. If there were any big time men’s stars then none of this would be an issue.


 I don't think Vince really expected women to be this major draws in the first place having throughout the history of the wwf/e booked them like after thoughts.. Plus i am also think a major reason why wwe had a poor RTWM was because Vince didn't have his handy part timers to fall back on for the first time in many years... He had used all of them on Saudi Arabia and could not be convinced back. So, to no one's surprise, his over exposed, so called "stars" drew in poor numbers.. If there is a problem for Vince, I would definitely point to the people Triple H hired for NXT and then got moved to the main roster... There is too much reliance on wrestling more than talking, no characters whatsoever across the board..And Vince doesn't know what to do with such folks historically...

P.S: This years gonna be another train wreck for Vince unless he can convince the Rock back for one more match with Brock Lesnar or something :lol


----------



## SPCDRI

The 3 lowest rated, and the close to 3 least watched RAW shows ever that aren't holiday shows, are the last 3 RAW shows. The Survivor Series build and NXT invasion was good for the other shows like Smackdown and NXT but RAW only won one match I think on the pre-show and it did them no favors. Rollins, somebody who lost his match, opened the show by dressing down the locker room as losers, which didn't do RAW any favors, either. 
I'm surprised. I believed that RAW would always be the "baby" and Vince's beloved or something. I'm surprised they had so many RAW people lay down at Survivor Series.


----------



## fulcizombie

When your whole agenda is to push the C show for a few pyrrhic «victories» against the new company that’s what happens. Anyway the product is awful, they lost John Cena (who is to blame for the downward spiral for many years but at least he had an audience and was the only star after Batista left) and now they are left with nothing. Just do a total attitude-style reboot or even worse days are coming....


----------



## tducey

Wonder if the Rollins heel turn will help. RAW should be the flagship show, hope to see ratings turn around soon.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Got bored and dug up viewership numbers for every RAW after Wrestlemania going back to 2009, you can make of it what you will. The Majority of these are facing NCAA finals competition which do monster viewership, I note the ones that don't.
> 
> *RAW 4/6/09(Orton Vs HHH) - 5.95 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 3/29/10(Michaels Vs Taker II) - 5.53 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/4/11(Miz Vs. Cena, Rock Guest Host) - 5.62 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/3/12(Rock Vs Cena) - 5.02 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/7/13(First of 3 Hour Era, Rock Vs Cena II) - 4.61 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/7/14(Orton Vs. Bryan Vs. Batista, End of the Streak) - 5.14 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 3/30/15(Rollins Cashes in on Lesnar/Reigns, No NCAA competition) - 5.35 Million Viewers, Meltzer notes 2014 number is more impressive because of competition.
> 
> RAW 4/4/16(HHH Vs. Reigns) - 4.079 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/3/17(Undertaker Vs. Reigns) - 3.75 Million Viewers
> 
> RAW 4/9/18 (Lesnar Vs. Reigns II, No NCAA Competition) - 3.903 Million Viewers, Meltzer notes 2017's number is more impressive because of competition.
> 
> RAW 4/8/17(Ronda Vs. Becky Vs. Charlotte) - 2.924 Million Viewers*
> 
> Interesting when it's laid out like that.


Dang. The number were steadily declining, but still seemed relatively stable from 2009-2015 in that 5-6 million range (besides 2013). 2016-2018 (Reigns' era) looks horrible, and the woman's main event fall out didn't seem to interest people at all and they couldn't even break 3 million. Crazy.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

raymond1985 said:


> It was Lesnar who drew those massive post-WM numbers in 2014 and 2015. He drew the highest quarter for the 2014 show because people wanted to see the fallout from the streak. The 2015 show was based around him.


Daniel Bryan consistently had the highest quarters in 2013 and 2014 until his injury. 

I pulled up the numbers specifically for 2013 and the numbers he was pulling was actually nuts, only Cena would top him. DB segments were growing by 500-700k a quarter.

Lesnar did pull the biggest quarter in 2014 for the Streak Fallout, but that was the opening segment that generally has always done the biggest in the 3 hour era, and the DB quarters that episode did well too.


----------



## llj

SPCDRI said:


> The 3 lowest rated, and the close to 3 least watched RAW shows ever that aren't holiday shows, are the last 3 RAW shows. The Survivor Series build and NXT invasion was good for the other shows like Smackdown and NXT but RAW only won one match I think on the pre-show and it did them no favors. Rollins, somebody who lost his match, opened the show by dressing down the locker room as losers, which didn't do RAW any favors, either.
> I'm surprised. I believed that RAW would always be the "baby" and Vince's beloved or something. I'm surprised they had so many RAW people lay down at Survivor Series.


Vince is still about "winning" and he was focused on trying to help NXT beat AEW first and foremost. He'd cut his mama's throat to win a war


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

"The show’s peak was 2,375,000 viewers for the Seth Rollins show opening segment and it fell from there. The low point was the beginning of Rollins vs. Kevin Owens at 1,767,000 viewers, although most of the main event averaged 1,896,000 viewers.

Bobby Lashley vs. Titus O’Neil and AOP vs. Zack Ryder & Curt Hawkins lost 44,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Akira Tozawa lost 271,000 viewers, although the segment also had two commercial breaks. Buddy Murphy vs. Matt Hardy gained 139,000 viewers. The challenges leading to the four-way match gained 77,000 viewers. Drew McIntyre vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Ricochet lost 59,000 viewers. A.J. Styles vs. Mysterio for the U.S. title gained 17,000 viewers. Charlotte Flair vs. Asuka lost 65,000 viewers. Erick Rowan vs. Kyle Roberts lost 153,000 viewers. Rollins vs. Owens in the main event lost 20,000 viewers."

Dude, they literally LOSE viewers for the fucking main event, Daniel Bryan was gaining 700,000 viewers in the main event working with people like Dean Ambrose in 2013(they had an overun back then, but you could still see the gain leading up to an overrun so it's night and day compared to now even without)


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

The Inbred Goatman said:


> "The show’s peak was 2,375,000 viewers for the Seth Rollins show opening segment and it fell from there. The low point was the beginning of Rollins vs. Kevin Owens at 1,767,000 viewers, although most of the main event averaged 1,896,000 viewers.
> 
> Bobby Lashley vs. Titus O’Neil and AOP vs. Zack Ryder & Curt Hawkins lost 44,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Akira Tozawa lost 271,000 viewers, although the segment also had two commercial breaks. Buddy Murphy vs. Matt Hardy gained 139,000 viewers. The challenges leading to the four-way match gained 77,000 viewers. Drew McIntyre vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Ricochet lost 59,000 viewers. A.J. Styles vs. Mysterio for the U.S. title gained 17,000 viewers. Charlotte Flair vs. Asuka lost 65,000 viewers. Erick Rowan vs. Kyle Roberts lost 153,000 viewers. Rollins vs. Owens in the main event lost 20,000 viewers."
> 
> Dude, they literally LOSE viewers for the fucking main event, Daniel Bryan was gaining 700,000 viewers in the main event working with people like Dean Ambrose in 2013(they had an overun back then, but you could still see the gain leading up to an overrun so it's night and day compared to now even without)


big match rollins :vince


----------



## SPCDRI

under 1.8 million for the main event against a monday night football game that was a 4 touchdown blowout.

Kevin Owens and MISTER THIRD HOUR burned it down!

:rollins


----------



## Rozzop

The Inbred Goatman said:


> "The show’s peak was 2,375,000 viewers for the Seth Rollins show opening segment and it fell from there. The low point was the beginning of Rollins vs. Kevin Owens at 1,767,000 viewers, although most of the main event averaged 1,896,000 viewers.
> 
> Bobby Lashley vs. Titus O’Neil and AOP vs. Zack Ryder & Curt Hawkins lost 44,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Akira Tozawa lost 271,000 viewers, although the segment also had two commercial breaks. Buddy Murphy vs. Matt Hardy gained 139,000 viewers. The challenges leading to the four-way match gained 77,000 viewers. Drew McIntyre vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Ricochet lost 59,000 viewers. A.J. Styles vs. Mysterio for the U.S. title gained 17,000 viewers. Charlotte Flair vs. Asuka lost 65,000 viewers. Erick Rowan vs. Kyle Roberts lost 153,000 viewers. Rollins vs. Owens in the main event lost 20,000 viewers."
> 
> Dude, they literally LOSE viewers for the fucking main event, Daniel Bryan was gaining 700,000 viewers in the main event working with people like Dean Ambrose in 2013(they had an overun back then, but you could still see the gain leading up to an overrun so it's night and day compared to now even without)


That is interesting. 

Shows what a complete lack of storytelling and character development does. Plus making everybody feel unimportant. 

271k viewers lost for Andrade and Tozawa. The audience dont have a reason to care about them, boring, change the channel and most dont come back. 

153k viewers lost for Rowan against jobber. I know I would change the channel too. 

If we had any sort of character development for these guys would more stick around?

Dont the higher ups care about the numbers?

Cant they see what is wrong?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Ooo, we getting quarter numbers again?

Pretty much tells you that no-stake pointless matches just don't draw... except for Buddy Murphy vs. Matt Hardy. That looks to have the biggest gain of the night, although it's coming off the biggest loss of the night so that might've played a factor.. Wouldn't surprise me if the Rusev attack on Lashley actually helped that second quarter from losing more viewers. It only took up like 5 minutes of it (if even that). Because otherwise it seems like that probably would've lost more along the lines of what Andrade/Tozawa lost and maybe that loss wouldn't have been so big (300k loss between the two might've been more towards the second quarter is what I'm getting at).

The segment setting up the four-way gaining viewers on top of Murphy/Hardy's gain is a good indication of how well a promo can do. The #1 contenders match lost a bit but not too much, and then gaining a little bit back for the US Title match is... well tbh probably not the best they didn't gain more back of that 60k they lost the quarter before, but at least they gained some back.

The main event losing 20k viewers ON TOP of the 200+ thousand viewers that the previous two quarters lost is not good... considering it was a main event between what looks to be the top face and top heel on Raw going forward (and they had about 500k more watch the set up for it at the beginning of the night). 

I think the main event number should be pretty worrying for WWE. I love the idea of Rollins turning heel and Owens being the top face, but it doesn't seem like people care much for a match between the two. Heck, can't say I did either with nothing on the line - even if they did a good job with the opening segment. Would things have maybe been better if they altered the show a bit, and advertised the "Seth addressing the Raw locker room" segment as the main event? Then maybe tweak it a bit so Owens and Rollins brawl, Owens gets the upperhand, AOP attack Owens, looks like they're about to attack Rollins, then back off and Rollins curb stomps Owens (pretty much the exact way they ended the night, just no match). Then save Owens/Rollins for a later night and put some stakes on it. #1 contendership for Universal Title at Royal Rumble would be a decent option.

Speaking of Owens as well, he seems to have gotten really cold since the feud with Shane ended. Not sure what he's been doing, but doesn't look like he's had much of anything going on. Has he been feuding with anyone since the Shane feud ended or has he just been in catering most weeks? I've normally been reading the results but can't recall him in anything. If that's true, how do they not have him doing anything when he was arguably the hottest babyface over the summer? Heck, he got eliminated in the Survivor Series match first for Raw iirc. Then they probably wonder why people don't care about him in the main event. Wins and losses do matter.


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I think the main event number should be pretty worrying for WWE. I love the idea of Rollins turning heel and Owens being the top face, but it doesn't seem like people care much for a match between the two. Heck, can't say I did either with nothing on the line - even if they did a good job with the opening segment. Would things have maybe been better if they altered the show a bit, and advertised the "Seth addressing the Raw locker room" segment as the main event? Then maybe tweak it a bit so Owens and Rollins brawl, Owens gets the upperhand, AOP attack Owens, looks like they're about to attack Rollins, then back off and Rollins curb stomps Owens (pretty much the exact way they ended the night, just no match). Then save Owens/Rollins for a later night and put some stakes on it. #1 contendership for Universal Title at Royal Rumble would be a decent option.
> 
> Speaking of Owens as well, he seems to have gotten really cold since the feud with Shane ended. Not sure what he's been doing, but doesn't look like he's had much of anything going on. *Has he been feuding with anyone since the Shane feud ended or has he just been in catering most weeks?* I've normally been reading the results but can't recall him in anything. If that's true, how do they not have him doing anything when he was arguably the hottest babyface over the summer? Heck, he got eliminated in the Survivor Series match first for Raw iirc. Then they probably wonder why people don't care about him in the main event. Wins and losses do matter.


Nah, they've mostly kept Kevin Owens in catering after his feud with Shane McMahon on Smackdown ended. 

Owens got drafted to Raw over a month ago. He showed up a week later to screw over the O.C (by giving AJ Styles the Stunner on the entrance ramp), and hand the Street Profits their 1st victory on their Raw debut.

Owens was kept off TV for a few weeks. He didn't return until (over) 2 weeks ago when helped out Seth Rollins and the Street Profits fend off Imperium on that episode where they toured in the UK. The babyfaces won in an 8-man tag match.

He faced Drew McIntyre in a good match last week, but their contest got disrupted by Triple H who wanted to convince Owens to join the NXT team (before getting ambushed from behind by the Undisputed Era).

Owens showed up last Saturday to join Tommaso Ciampa, Keith Lee, and Dominik Dijakovic to defeat the Undisputed Era in an awesome WarGames match; which pretty much boosted Owens's momentum/overness with the crowds since then. Despite being the 1st one eliminated at Survivor Series (which one could say is because he was banged up from the previous night), Owens is still over with the crowds and he's officially the top babyface on Raw now that Rollins just turned heel.

Overall, Owens hasn't really feuded with anyone up until now


----------



## Chrome

The Inbred Goatman said:


> "The show’s peak was 2,375,000 viewers for the Seth Rollins show opening segment and it fell from there. The low point was the beginning of Rollins vs. Kevin Owens at 1,767,000 viewers, although most of the main event averaged 1,896,000 viewers.
> 
> Bobby Lashley vs. Titus O’Neil and AOP vs. Zack Ryder & Curt Hawkins lost 44,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Akira Tozawa lost 271,000 viewers, although the segment also had two commercial breaks. *Buddy Murphy vs. Matt Hardy gained 139,000 viewers.* The challenges leading to the four-way match gained 77,000 viewers. Drew McIntyre vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Ricochet lost 59,000 viewers. A.J. Styles vs. Mysterio for the U.S. title gained 17,000 viewers. Charlotte Flair vs. Asuka lost 65,000 viewers. Erick Rowan vs. Kyle Roberts lost 153,000 viewers. Rollins vs. Owens in the main event lost 20,000 viewers."
> 
> Dude, they literally LOSE viewers for the fucking main event, Daniel Bryan was gaining 700,000 viewers in the main event working with people like Dean Ambrose in 2013(they had an overun back then, but you could still see the gain leading up to an overrun so it's night and day compared to now even without)


The numbers have spoken, Raw needs more MATT HARDY:


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Ooo, we getting quarter numbers again?


We have been for a few weeks, I'll post them when the observer goes live every week.

Most think it's because Heyman is now involved with the company so Meltzer is getting the quarter breakdowns from him.

Whatever the case may be, it's interesting to analyze, and the Main event of RAW LOSING viewers should be worrisome.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Inbred Goatman said:


> We have been for a few weeks, I'll post them when the observer goes live every week.
> 
> Most think it's because Heyman is now involved with the company so Meltzer is getting the quarter breakdowns from him.
> 
> Whatever the case may be, it's interesting to analyze, and the Main event of RAW LOSING viewers should be worrisome.


I've seen them for AEW/NXT. However for Raw I only remember hearing that Meltzer said "x segment was best of the night" or "y segment did horribly" - but not full breakdowns like for this week.

Has someone been posting the full breakdowns for the last several weeks for Raw?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I've seen them for AEW/NXT. However for Raw I only remember hearing that Meltzer said "x segment was best of the night" or "y segment did horribly" - but not full breakdowns like for this week.
> 
> Has someone been posting the full breakdowns for the last several weeks for Raw?


Nah, no one has, they have been posted for a bit in the observer tho, none of the other sites post them either.

Meltzer is the only one that directly gets them tho I can post quarter breakdowns for recent weeks if you want.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Nah, no one has, they have been posted for a bit in the observer tho, none of the other sites post them either.
> 
> Meltzer is the only one that directly gets them tho I can post quarter breakdowns for recent weeks if you want.


I'd definitely be interested in seeing whatever you can get if it's not much trouble.


----------



## Mongstyle

No one is a star.

Opening segments are the best position because that's when most people tune in. If you're there, you'll get the most viewers. After that, it's basically hit and miss, and by the third hour people will tune out. It's why it's laughable that people pretend the women are a draw or Becky was doing numbers, when the overall numbers are shit and their numbers are only "good" when they're literally in the opening segments.

Seth Floppins and Becky Stench failed big time this year.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I'd definitely be interested in seeing whatever you can get if it's not much trouble.


Here are a few I'll post em in batches 

RAW 11/4 - 

*The Kabuki Warriors vs. Lynch & Flair grew 75,000 viewers from start-to-finish . R-Truth vs. Singh Brothers lost 280,000 viewers continuing the trend of the 24/7 belt doing poorly . The Seth Rollins interview leading to the Walter match gained 64,000 viewers. Rollins vs. Walter turning into Rollins & Kevin Owens & Street Profits vs. Imperium lost 59,000 viewers . Cedric Alexander vs. Andrade lost 319,000 viewers . The Lana/Rusev/Lashley segment gained 85,000 viewers , Erick Rowan’s squash lost 12,000 viewers, Viking Raiders vs. Flash Morgan Webster & Mark Andrews lost 245,000 viewers, Orton & Ricochet & Carrillo vs. OC in the main event spot gained 16,000 viewers.
*

RAW 10/28 - 

*In the segment-by-segment, the high point with 2,457,000 viewers was Becky Lynch vs. Kairi Sane. The low point was the Aleister Black interview at 1,881,000 viewers (although that segment also had two commercial breaks in it). Lynch vs. Sane gained 108,000 viewers. R-Truth vs. Buddy Murphy lost 213,000 viewers. Street Profits interview and Hulk Hogan & Ric Flair coming out gained 15,000 viewers. Ricochet vs. Drew McIntyre gained 40,000 viewers. Viking Raiders squash lost 128,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Sin Cara lost 164,000 viewers. Charlotte Flair & Natalya vs. The Iiconics gained 98,000 viewers. Seth Rollins vs. Erick Rowan lost 56,000 viewers. Black interview lost 231,000 viewers. A.J. Styles vs. Humberto Carrillo gained 71,000 viewers. And the Rusev/Lana angle at the end gained 68,000 viewers.
*

RAW 10/21 - 
*The Flair/McIntyre promo opened at 2,442,000 viewers. The Street Profits vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson closed at 2,129,000 viewers. In the segment-by-segment, McIntyre vs. Ricochet gained 203,000 viewers to 2,645,000 viewers which was the high point of the show. Aleister Black vs. Jason Reynolds lost 277,000 viewers. The Jerry Lawler segment with Rusev and Lana & Lashley gained 33,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Sin Cara lost 24,000 viewers. The R-Truth vs. Sunil Singh and beginning of Viking Raiders vs. Curt Hawkins & Zack Ryder lost 47,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Hawkins & Ryder finish plus Lashley and Rusev in the restaurant and beginning of the Rey Mysterio promo gained 54,000 viewers. The Mysterio promo, Shelton Benjamin and Cain Velasquez lost 36,000 viewers. Seth Rollins vs. Humberto Carrillo lost 155,000 viewers. I noted that you do segments introducing new talent in competitive matches and you will likely lose viewers, but it’s stuff that you have to do. It’s the same thing that happened with Chris Jericho and Darby Allin. The low point on the show was R-Truth trying to win the 24/7 title back which lost 165,000 viewers to 2,028,000. The Gallows & Anderson vs. Street Profits main event gained 101,000 viewers.
*

RAW 10/14 -

*In the segment-by-segment numbers, Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair gained 265,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Ali and the draft picks lost 259,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Robert Roode & Dolph Ziggler quarter first loss 176,000 viewers but the finish of the match and Aleister Black vs. Eric Young gained 144,000 viewers. Draft picks and the angle with the Street Profits vs. The OC lost 182,000 viewers. Ricochet vs. Shelton Benjamin and the Lana/Bobby Lashley segment gained 69,000 viewers. Asuka & Kairi Sane vs. Natalya & Lacey Evans in the main event segment plus the burning of the Firefly Fun house lost 132,000 viewers. The overall peak quarter was 2,699,000 viewers for Flair vs. Lynch. The low point was the main event and Fun House segment with 1,826,000 viewers.
*

There are a few, god I feel like I'm just giving some idiots ammo for their nonsensical arguments and making conclusions out of the little information pieces, but alas, I know people want to see these. I'll post the more later, and I'll post em every week when the observer drops.

As you can see, this whole idea that Becky Lynch is this gigantic ratings mover is pretty nonsensical, Drew and Ricochet were put in the same slot that Becky is most weeks(opening the show), and they drew the biggest quarter that week.

Let's not pretend that Drew and Ricochet are some big stars now, opening segment always does the strongest, outside of the Lesnar anomaly rating.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

^Good stuff. Seems like this really is just a case of people tuning in at the start, and then they just start tuning out over the course of a few hours. Even the main events don't always gain viewers. Nobody's a star. Nobody draws because when they do have part legends around, either they beat the current guys, they job to each other, or they're usually all fed to just one-two full time guys and beat everyone else. You couple that with 50/50 booking everyone besides those two full-time guys you put effort into get, and your roster feels like trash. No one feels important. Then you get into the creative issues like scripted-to-death promos which limits the potential of those guys you have on the roster that are very talented and could be somewhat big stars for WWE. 

It's just not a good situation they're in.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

So how long until Heyman gets the boot off creative? The dude is washed. The ratings keep dropping, nobody is consistently over, there are no compelling stories to stick with every week, and attendance continues to drop on live events.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Time to call back John Cena! :smugcena


----------



## xio8ups

Heyman is good at one thing Bouncing checks


----------



## kingnoth1n

Seths apology is going to job to Rudolph on Monday.


----------



## Rozzop

They have no stars so of course the midcard is bad but hundreds of thousands are tuning out when Andrade, R-Truth, Viking Warriors, Black etc are on, and who can blame them.

Maybe it was always like this and Crash Holly, Al Snow etc crashed the ratings back then, I dont know.

I only watch the PPVs. Cant watch Raw or Smackdown. Commercials every 8 minutes makes it unwatchable.


----------



## .christopher.

Fearless Viper said:


> Time to call back John Cena! :smugcena


The guy who kickstarted driving millions of fans away. Great!


----------



## incomplete moron

I predict the numbers will be between 4-4.5 million, only cuz of seth's ''apology'', guy is ratings machine \m/ biggest draw on the roster, beside kalisto and roman


----------



## Deathiscoming

I agree Rollins has been very entertaining as a tweener/heel these past two weeks and frankly if his natural personality is allowed to shine through, he is quite tolerable on the mic. I've been watching the Rollins/Authority stuff and he was pretty good/alright on the mic, played the cowardly/cocky heel, HHH and Stephanie's babyboy role brilliantly and was hilarious and adorable. Just let him be that instead of the babyface people pleaser Cuck-to-Cringy Lynch "burn it down" WWE FOTC BS they had him do over the past year or so.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I expect the rating will be higher than last week but the NFL game was good, so we shall see.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

With Becky missing on raw back to back I wonder who the ratings geeks will blame? I mean it’s beckys fault that the ratings have dropped so I have heard. So who is responsible for the continued drop? Common sense says that until the overall product improves ratings will continue to drop.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

As per Showbuzz Daily, expect the ratings for* Monday December 2:*

*Cable available Wednesday December 4 by 9 am PST*


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

i wonder why they would put Becky in a dark match when shes the biggest draw and fan favorite.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I see the manginas think just because Cringy Lynch didn't appear for two weeks it'd have a dramatic impact(positive or negative) on the ratings, lmao. It doesn't work like that. Although I'm pretty sure putting Cringy Lynch and most of the women's wrestling garbage would have as much of a negative impact on week-by-week viewership as segments/matches involving some random floppy matches. May be even worse
And what happens when Cringy Lynch is what Survivor Series and RTWM is built around? The viewership is at all-time lows just like last year...burn it down baybay.

If Cringy Lynch were even 10% of the "big star" her mangina fanboys claim she is, her presence or absence on a single edition of Raw or SD would cause an increase (or decrease) in at least 200-500K viewers, just like how one appearance by the Rock on SD on FOX premiere had an impact. 'Cause obviously, on his worst day with the lamest catchphrases or chants, Rock is still Rock, while Cringy Lynch is just Cringy, pukey, revulsive and an anti-draw.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Where are the damn ratings for this week's show?! I'm desperately waiting for that historic "low" since the shows have been utter garbage. They have improved by may be 25% but most of it is still filler, just like this Weeks Raw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2.208 million average. Pretty good number for these days.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*Best Raw number since October 21st.

And that was up against a very good NFL game, too.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.418M [10th] | 0.770D [4th]
H2: 2.279M [11th] | 0.710D [5th]
H3: 1.928M [14th] | 0.600D [6th]

3H: 2.208M | 0.693D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.139M | - 5.75% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.79% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.351M | - 15.40% ]
[ - 0.110D | - 15.49% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.490M | - 20.26% ]
[ - 0.170D | - 22.08% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.099M | + 4.69% ]
[ - 0.017D | - 2.39% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.078M | - 3.41% ]
[ - 0.117D | - 14.44% ]

All-Time viewership rankings:

23rd lowest H1
16th lowest H2
10th lowest H3

13th lowest 3H*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It's funny because the total viewership slightly increased while the demo slightly dropped week to week. This week the NFL game was good while last week it was a rout. Maybe the quality of the game has nothing to do with it and these are the new normal for RAW in the demo.


----------



## llj

Yeah, I don't think NFL has anything to do with RAW ratings anymore. For the most part the 3rd hour is always the same average lately regardless of competition, and the first hour ranges from 2.2 to 2.4, not really a substantial difference overall.

I think RAW and Smackdown will be doing exactly the same numbers very soon, which is around 2.2 ish


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

To be this close to SD on Network TV just a couple of months into the FOX debut is something else. Not a good look for SD at all.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Meh. Seems Raw will be okay and have a stable 2-2.5 Million average viewers for the most part. It's Smackdown viewership that's going to drop considering their entire show is stale and lame AF outside of just one feud that had a lot of potential- Roman vs Bryan. The Fiend sucks and the ratings/viewership decline going into WM is going to prove it. Especially if they don't have a major star(Brock, Punk, Rock, and to a lesser extent Ronda) going into WM on the FOX show.


----------



## ClintDagger

I think people are liking heel Seth. Opening with him is the right move versus other weeks when they’ve opened with stuff that has proven to be real channel changers.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Meh. Seems Raw will be okay and have a stable 2-2.5 Million average viewers for the most part. It's Smackdown viewership that's going to drop considering their entire show is stale and lame AF outside of just one feud that had a lot of potential- Roman vs Bryan. The Fiend sucks and the ratings/viewership decline going into WM is going to prove it. Especially if they don't has a major star(Brock, Punk, Rock, and to a lesser extent Ronda) going into WM on the FOX show.


ClintDagger said:


> I think people are liking heel Seth. Opening with him is the right move versus other weeks when they’ve opened with stuff that has proven to be real channel changers.


Yep. Putting up Cringy Lynch segments or matches involving women in the beginning and end of the show is a sure way to kill the show. If anything, putting an 8-minute cruiserweight match would be a better choice than that. 

Having a Seth slow burn heel turn is definitely creating intrigue and working in their favour, as is the AJ/Orton feud. That's what Monday might Raw always opened and closed the show with and that's how it should be. Always.


----------



## Randy Lahey

It's still 14.4% lower than the previous year.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Randy Lahey said:


> It's still 14.4% lower than the previous year.


That's true and last year I thought that they might be bottoming out. Maybe now wwe has finally reached rock bottom. Check the ratings a year from now to see if this is true.


----------



## llj

It will continue to drop year after year. We have had 20 years of sample size to work with here. Aside from the odd ratings blip for a quarter or two when things might be going REALLY well, I expect next year to be scraping the 2.0s at best


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Decent number. Keep building the show around Seth. They need put the title on him at the Royal Rumble.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Beaten by Rachel Maddow, Tucker Carlson, the Five and Hannity again

one day, they’ll reach 3m again and finally beat olde Tucker


----------



## Rozzop

gronk7 said:


> more proof that rollins is a draw - with good booking - he will keep producing numbers - with bad booking - he still maintains the audience - hes taking the fight to smackdown on a lesser network and against football for gods sake -





gronk7 said:


> more proof that rollins is a draw - with good booking - he will keep producing numbers - with bad booking - he still maintains the audience - hes taking the fight to smackdown on a lesser network and against football for gods sake -


Seth is the worst draw in history, and I dont mind him at all, its just a fact


----------



## Mongstyle

Lol at the first hour number recovering better when the women are no longer constantly in it. The first hour number is decent (at least in context of the shitty number over the last few weeks). The rest is shit as is the overall viewership. Basically, Raw is dead. This is as clear as sign as any that they need to reboot the show. It needs an overhaul in who they build it around because Seth Floppins and Becky Stench were already a disaster this year. But there's no fresh option to build it around so that's its own problem.


----------



## Ace

No Becky and ratings increase.

Just saying.


----------



## Ace

Mongstyle said:


> Lol at the first hour number recovering better when the women are no longer constantly in it. The first hour number is decent (at least in context of the shitty number over the last few weeks). The rest is shit as is the overall viewership. Basically, Raw is dead. This is as clear as sign as any that they need to reboot the show. It needs an overhaul in who they build it around because Seth Floppins and Becky Stench were already a disaster this year. But there's no fresh option to build it around so that's its own problem.


Lmao, you're right. Never thought about it, thought the first hr randomly increased. But that could be a reason.

@Kratosx23 might be into something with this anti draw business.


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> It's still 14.4% lower than the previous year.


???

3 hour live average for this week a year ago was 2,286,000 viewers compared to 2,208,000 this year so fall of 3.3% opposite much bigger game this year


----------



## Ace

validreasoning said:


> ???
> 
> 3 hour live average for this week a year ago was 2,286,000 viewers compared to 2,208,000 this year so fall of 3.3% opposite much bigger game this year


Isn't this the time of year Becky blew up? Lmao.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

validreasoning said:


> ???
> 
> 3 hour live average for this week a year ago was 2,286,000 viewers compared to 2,208,000 this year so fall of 3.3% opposite much bigger game this year


He's referring to the percentage drop in the demo as compared to last year.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Isn't this the time of year Becky blew up? Lmao.


In fairness to Becky she was on SD a year ago I believe so it’s not apples to apples.




Ace said:


> No Becky and ratings increase.
> 
> Just saying.


Becky is not a draw and is only over with uber hardcores. She’s the definition of an anti-draw when pushed too hard.



Ace said:


> Lmao, you're right. Never thought about it, thought the first hr randomly increased. But that could be a reason.
> 
> @Kratosx23 might be into something with this anti draw business.


Hey now... Anti-draw and Becky being the inaugural was my creation! Ha.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> In fairness to Becky she was on SD a year ago I believe so it’s not apples to apples.
> 
> 
> 
> Becky is not a draw and is only over with uber hardcores. She’s the definition of an anti-draw when pushed too hard.
> 
> 
> Hey now... Anti-draw and Becky being the inaugural was my creation! Ha.


 Yeah, but there was this whole Ronda vs Becky crap and SD invading Raw, no?


----------



## Ace

gronk7 said:


> becky is not a anti draw - shes a good draw -
> 
> - rollins is a massive draw - this weeks number he pulled is amazing - it came against football and at a time where people are switching off tv - biggest draw since cena - and a much better performer -
> 
> gargano cole and bryan are all draws as well - they just need the right booking and storylines -
> 
> the only anti draws are reigns - the fiend in a few months when the novelty runs out - and the part timers who draw for a week then tank the viewership the next -


 How is Becky a draw? Raw's ratings died with her on top on the road to WM..

Gargano?... 

Am I being punked?

Is this dude punking me?


----------



## Deathiscoming

Mongstyle said:


> Lol at the first hour number recovering better when the women are no longer constantly in it. The first hour number is decent (at least in context of the shitty number over the last few weeks). The rest is shit as is the overall viewership. Basically, Raw is dead. This is as clear as sign as any that they need to reboot the show. It needs an overhaul in who they build it around because Seth Floppins and Becky Stench were already a disaster this year. But there's no fresh option to build it around so that's its own problem.


Yep I believe fans who've been watching Raw for 20 years, including I would be instantly put off if they turn on Raw only to find 30-minute diva tag matches week after week. That kills any interest whatsoever and the last year or so the WWE hasn't had a standard format with what goes into H1, H2, H3. But for me, of women are on I'll change the channel. (Unless if it's Mandy Rose's entrance). And even if they're put in H2, it's incredibly annoying waiting 20-30 minutes while the divas have their match, just to wait to see AJ Styles or Seth Rollins in H3.

Raw is dead, true. One would've been shocked if one was told in 2015(when Drew and AJ weren't even with the WWE) that in 2019 Raw would be dead...and also have Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio, Drew McIntyre, Bobby Lashley and Rusev on the same roster. That's not even including Andrade, Samoa Joe, and Aleister Black. Something about it doesn't feel right. All those names on the roster, and Raw is dead.

Oh damn. I almost forgot Brock Lesnar. Does he count?


----------



## shadows123

Deathiscoming said:


> Yep I believe fans who've been watching Raw for 20 years, including I would be instantly put off if they turn on Raw only to find 30-minute diva tag matches week after week. That kills any interest whatsoever and the last year or so the WWE hasn't had a standard format with what goes into H1, H2, H3. But for me, of women are on I'll change the channel. (Unless if it's Mandy Rose's entrance). And even if they're put in H2, it's incredibly annoying waiting 20-30 minutes while the divas have their match, just to wait to see AJ Styles or Seth Rollins in H3.
> 
> Raw is dead, true. One would've been shocked if one was told in 2015(when Drew and AJ weren't even with the WWE) that in 2019 Raw would be dead...and also have Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio, Drew McIntyre, Bobby Lashley and Rusev on the same roster. That's not even including Andrade, Samoa Joe, and Aleister Black. Something about it doesn't feel right. All those names on the roster, and Raw is dead.
> 
> Oh damn. I almost forgot Brock Lesnar. Does he count?


I think its also probably because wwe puts up the videos on youtube immediately, talk about being counter productive ? its like asking us not to watch for the last 15 minutes or something, just wait like 10 minutes after the show and have your picks. I am still surprised around 2 million people tune in to watch this 3 hours load of crap ?


----------



## Deathiscoming

shadows123 said:


> I think its also probably because wwe puts up the videos on youtube immediately, talk about being counter productive ? its like asking us not to watch for the last 15 minutes or something, just wait like 10 minutes after the show and have your picks. I am still surprised around 2 million people tune in to watch this 3 hours load of crap ?


Yep and that's what I started doing. And it works for promos/attacks because you capture 4-5 minutes of the "important" chunk of any 10-minute segment, and so I got to see the Rollins clip, Lana and Lashley arrested, and Drew-Randy which I thoroughly enjoyed. I even enjoyed 2 minutes of Drew vs Tozawa. 

My only complaint is, the WWE YouTube channel should upload entire 5-8 minute matches involving Buddy Murphy, Aleister Black, Akira Tozawa or Andrade. That way, at least I can see some full matches. 

And this BTW when I still have a TV and multiple times RAW airs, either Live or Repeat telecast. But since YouTube exists, it's not even worth going through so much filler crap/commercials just to see some match or segment in its entirety.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Yeah, but there was this whole Ronda vs Becky crap and SD invading Raw, no?


Well you could be right. I’m sure that would have been happening in Nov ‘18 for the SS build but I can’t remember if she was showing up on Raw still by Dec ‘18. I know Ronda interfered in her match at TLC but I can’t remember if they were doing any crossover stuff on tv.


gronk7 said:


> becky is not a anti draw - shes a good draw -
> 
> - rollins is a massive draw - this weeks number he pulled is amazing - it came against football and at a time where people are switching off tv - biggest draw since cena - and a much better performer -
> 
> gargano cole and bryan are all draws as well - they just need the right booking and storylines -
> 
> the only anti draws are reigns - the fiend in a few months when the novelty runs out - and the part timers who draw for a week then tank the viewership the next -


Becky is a statistically proven anti-draw. Go read the Raw ratings thread from Dec 18 to Apr 19 if you don’t believe it. As far as Reigns, he’s the only full time regular to positively affect the ratings in recent years. He did it for RTWM 18 and bumped things for his return from cancer in RTWM 19 after Becky killed the ratings.


----------



## Deathiscoming

gronk7 said:


> okay - but rollins is still a massive draw - this week proved it - what a number he drew


Yeah that's not arguable. I was myself bored to death of Rollins babyface "burn it down" crap buy the fault was WWE wrote and booked those segments. After SS, they created intrigue into Rollins' character by opening Raw the way they did. (I was actually thinking Raw would have absolutely nothing going for it, because they hadn't really announced much, and expected the viewership to reach another one of those historic lows). But they bouncer back, and that's because of Rollins. Cringy Lynch or any other woman is of course not a draw as already proven between last Nov-April. 

As much as people like to hate on either Rollins or Reigns, they're the two draws the WWE has, especially Reigns, and with the right booking, such as by a heel turn, could even be HUGE draws.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

You do realize Meltzer gets the quarter-hour numbers and Becky Lynch is anything but an anti-draw, right?

Anyway, this new forum makes it so much easier for me to block all the mouthbreathers. Fantastic!


----------



## xio8ups

You do realize meltzer know's nothing. And is told everything. By his butt buddy paul heyman


----------



## Ace

Soul Man Danny B said:


> You do realize Meltzer gets the quarter-hour numbers and Becky Lynch is anything but an anti-draw, right?
> 
> Anyway, this new forum makes it so much easier for me to block all the mouthbreathers. Fantastic!


The ratings apocalypse says otherwise.


----------



## Not Lying

Soul Man Danny B said:


> You do realize Meltzer gets the quarter-hour numbers and Becky Lynch is anything but an anti-draw, right?
> 
> Anyway, this new forum makes it so much easier for me to block all the mouthbreathers. Fantastic!


Don't even bother with these geeks. Even with the trends continuing this year, even with the fact Becky was still being built up at the time, and even with all circumstances at the time. You have a couple of low IQ nobodys from internet repeating the same shit thinking it's gona make it true lol.

You just have to laugh at the idea that one of the top merch seller, and the person who was probably involved in the most viewed segments of the night for the past 2-3 months (despite not being in a heated feud), and despite the fact that on the RTWM she was getting the biggest quarterly segments, is an "anti-draw".


----------



## Deathiscoming

I believe RAW has potential to do quite well this year, especially with RTWM around the corner as long as 1)They handle the Rollins story/heel turn well, 2)Capitalize on AJ-Orton, and the rise of Drew McIntyre well, 3)Demote and relegate the damn women, your kabuki little girls and Cringy Lynch as a niche/sideshow act, just like the cruiserweight division. 

Raw is already getting to the point of being the best show out there, and NxT/AEW are complete garbage. SD is a loser and Raw may well equal/surpass it in the ratings.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

gronk7 said:


> bet you all rollins draws again tonight - hes on fire at the minute


If he opens the show, he'll do relatively well. If he closes, then he won't. The same is true of everyone on the roster. The first hour is routinely the highest rated and the third is a sinking ship.


----------



## shadows123

Deathiscoming said:


> I believe RAW has potential to do quite well this year, especially with RTWM around the corner as long as 1)They handle the Rollins story/heel turn well, 2)Capitalize on AJ-Orton, and the rise of Drew McIntyre well, 3)Demote and relegate the damn women, your kabuki little girls and Cringy Lynch as a niche/sideshow act, just like the cruiserweight division.
> 
> Raw is already getting to the point of being the best show out there, and NxT/AEW are complete garbage. SD is a loser and Raw may well equal/surpass it in the ratings.


The problem is one segment every 3 hours while the rest continues to be garbage is probably not going to bring anyone back. If anything, its only going to drive more people to youtube. And thats what Raw is, one good 10 minutes every 3 hours..


----------



## Deathiscoming

shadows123 said:


> The problem is one segment every 3 hours while the rest continues to be garbage is probably not going to bring anyone back. If anything, its only going to drive more people to youtube. And thats what Raw is, one good 10 minutes every 3 hours..


Yeah I'm reading the results while catching up with the AJ Styles Mysterious mainevent match just now..most of it is undercard matches and squashes that we've seen every week.
Only this week wrestler A goes against wrestler D. Drew-Matt, Buddy Murphy vs Zakk, Black vs Tozawa and the Rowan squash that seems to have become a weekly staple.

They have a couple of storylines and major feuds that have played on all night, like the Rollins-AOP alliance. 

But in 2020, it'd be stupid to spend 3 hours when you can catch up with Raw in 30 minutes of convenient YouTube clips. The WWE ratings are only going to do decrease from this point on, even if Punk returns. Because 10 minutes of a good weekly Angle/promo isn't enough to sustain viewerhip yo three hours of crap programming.

Oh, and I also caught a few glimpses of the "kabuki warriors". They look and act ridiculous. The women's division must be ridiculous when all they have are 4women, with two being evil foreign heel petite/short Asians and the other two are Charlotte and Cringy Lynch. Yikes. That's the equivalent of watching John Cena, The Big Show and Kaientai battle against each other for 2 years.

Not that I give a damm about women's wrestling. Just what I noticed.


----------



## shadows123

Deathiscoming said:


> Yeah I'm reading the results while catching up with the AJ Styles Mysterious mainevent match just now..most of it is undercard matches and squashes that we've seen every week.
> Only this week wrestler A goes against wrestler D. Drew-Matt, Buddy Murphy vs Zakk, Black vs Tozawa and the Rowan squash that seems to have become a weekly staple.
> 
> They have a couple of storylines and major feuds that have played on all night, like the Rollins-AOP alliance.
> 
> But in 2020, it'd be stupid to spend 3 hours when you can catch up with Raw in 30 minutes of convenient YouTube clips. The WWE ratings are only going to do decrease from this point on, even if Punk returns. Because 10 minutes of a good weekly Angle/promo isn't enough to sustain viewerhip yo three hours of crap programming.
> 
> Oh, and I also caught a few glimpses of the "kabuki warriors". They look and act ridiculous. The women's division must be ridiculous when all they have are 4women, with two being evil foreign heel petite/short Asians and the other two are Charlotte and Cringy Lynch. Yikes. That's the equivalent of watching John Cena, The Big Show and Kaientai battle against each other for 2 years.
> 
> Not that I give a damm about women's wrestling. Just what I noticed.


Ya they did the thing with Rollins through the show. But the problem is, he is not that interesting to begin with nor is Kevin Owens and they are doing the thing which they did 4 years ago only we have AOP instead of J & J. Sure Seth may appeal to some, I get it he works hard, does a series of moves every week blah blah, but he is not the guy that should have been over exposed like wwe have exposing his every flaw (which there are several) nor should he be wrestling every week.

The women ya..I get it.. The problem is WWE doesnt have anything interesting there either. They have a huge roster and yet they focus on just the two yet again. Was it really necessary pushing Charlotte and Becky in the tag titles as well? Plus Asuka and Kairi are fine really. They are really good wrestlers. But again, have a manager for them to do the talking and do something with them instead of the lazy evil foreigner angle.


----------



## Mongstyle

The Definition of Technician said:


> Don't even bother with these geeks. Even with the trends continuing this year, even with the fact Becky was still being built up at the time, and even with all circumstances at the time. You have a couple of low IQ nobodys from internet repeating the same shit thinking it's gona make it true lol.
> 
> You just have to laugh at the idea that one of the top merch seller, and the person who was probably involved in the most viewed segments of the night for the past 2-3 months (despite not being in a heated feud), and *despite the fact that on the RTWM she was getting the biggest quarterly segments*, is an "anti-draw".


Did you seriously just pull this out of your ass?

What quarterly segments on the RTWM? We didn't even get those at the time as far as I can recall. And this Road to Wrestlemania was a fucking disaster so I'm not what that says for you. This was the first time the Mania season didn't even produce a bump for WWE. Not only that, Network growth declined for the first time and collapsed coming out of Mania. This on a RTWM built around the women's main event and Becky Stench. And the only bump that did occur during Mania season was literally when Reigns cancer announcement happened and The Shield reformed, which has fuck all to do with Becky.

The only geeks on the internet are the Becky stans who intentionally act like they're blind when the evidence is as glaring as it gets. Mania season has never been as bad as it was this year and it was built around her. WM34 did better than WM33. And WM33 had a minor decrease from WM32. Whatever the case that happened during the rest of the year, WWE always got the Mania bump and then would ride that out coming out of Mania. Except in the last 12 months. Ratings, and attendance, collapsed starting November 2018 and they didn't recover. Not only that, you literally had the USA Network get involved with the show after Mania 35 when ratings were declining so badly and they told Vince to get stars (Reigns, Brock etc.) back on Raw which is why we ended up with the shit show that was the Wild Card.

And the guy you rely on for quarter hour ratings by the way (Meltzer) is on record basically saying Becky did fuck all for Mania season, and that the main event program was entirely carried by Ronda.

Also, the quarter hour ratings over the last few months have proven one thing: Becky doesn't draw. No one on Raw does. The peak ratings are always the opening segments on Raw. And when she hasn't been in those segments, she does nothing for ratings. Basically, they're not tuning in for her. It's people tuning in to see what's happening and then tuning out basically. Made even more hilarious by the fact that last week the opening segments did better than they have in a while when the women (or Becky) weren't even part of them. And even then, those numbers were shit which puts into context just how much more shit they were with Becky.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The fact that Raw is already only 200K behind a FOX network version of SD absolutely cracks me up. Only took TWO months, too. And in the time of the year Raw goes head to head with the NFL! WOW.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

After the last two weeks it's hard to go any lower so I'll go with them with an uptick. Having the New York media market involved in the NFL game last night could def. hurt them though. I'm curious to see if people tuned in and stayed after that horrific opening segment.


----------



## Not Lying

Mongstyle said:


> Did you seriously just pull this out of your ass?
> 
> What quarterly segments on the RTWM? We didn't even get those at the time as far as I can recall. And this Road to Wrestlemania was a fucking disaster so I'm not what that says for you. This was the first time the Mania season didn't even produce a bump for WWE. Not only that, Network growth declined for the first time and collapsed coming out of Mania. This on a RTWM built around the women's main event and Becky Stench. And the only bump that did occur during Mania season was literally when Reigns cancer announcement happened and The Shield reformed, which has fuck all to do with Becky.
> 
> The only geeks on the internet are the Becky stans who intentionally act like they're blind when the evidence is as glaring as it gets. Mania season has never been as bad as it was this year and it was built around her. WM34 did better than WM33. And WM33 had a minor decrease from WM32. Whatever the case that happened during the rest of the year, WWE always got the Mania bump and then would ride that out coming out of Mania. Except in the last 12 months. Ratings, and attendance, collapsed starting November 2018 and they didn't recover. Not only that, you literally had the USA Network get involved with the show after Mania 35 when ratings were declining so badly and they told Vince to get stars (Reigns, Brock etc.) back on Raw which is why we ended up with the shit show that was the Wild Card.
> 
> And the guy you rely on for quarter hour ratings by the way (Meltzer) is on record basically saying Becky did fuck all for Mania season, and that the main event program was entirely carried by Ronda.
> 
> Also, the quarter hour ratings over the last few months have proven one thing: Becky doesn't draw. No one on Raw does. The peak ratings are always the opening segments on Raw. And when she hasn't been in those segments, she does nothing for ratings. Basically, they're not tuning in for her. It's people tuning in to see what's happening and then tuning out basically. Made even more hilarious by the fact that last week the opening segments did better than they have in a while when the women (or Becky) weren't even part of them. And even then, those numbers were shit which puts into context just how much more shit they were with Becky.


I've already addressed so many times. You're all repeating the same shit and contradicting yourself time and time again.

Dave Meltzer said it



> WOR: “I’ve been told Ronda Rousey and Becky Lynch do very well in the quarter hour ratings, the best of anyone.”


You all keep forgetting the many variables that happened before like WOAT ratings trend starting way back in July, or the fact that barely 4 months before Becky was just a jobber, or losing the FOTC and pretty much the only guy that mattered suddenly.. There were 2 shows concentrated on Becky/Stephanie/HHH/Ronda story (mind you, nobody really wanted to see, many Becky fans included), after those 2 shows they did the Flair Celebration and started building a few more matches towards Mania and Kofimania was taking off.
THEN, all of you claimed that women "bombed the ratings", "look at how the ratings increased when batista/hhh and Brock amd Kofi all became more important and got more time"..yet apparantly Becky/Ronda STILL drew the most (and of course I'm attributing this largely to Ronda).

And then, then that was almost 8 months ago, you would think by some of the reaction of the geeks or bitter fans talking BS like "she's stale", "worst reign eva", "becky 2 stars", that she'd had gotten cold, after all so many claimed she won't be able to remain that over, yet she still is, one of the most over, biggest merch seller, and biggest draws in the company. You don't get be a top merch seller + get regularly the biggest views on the show they're on + have your face plastered everywhere and doing commercials without being a draw. 

You then get more ridiculous geeks saying she's no Austin or McGregor? who the fuck said she is? She's got charisma for days and she gives the best fiery promos in the division and hypes the crowd like no one else. And guess what, NOBODY is like Austin or McGregor, you are talking of mount Rushmore, and we're talking about a big star today who was nothing but a jobber for the longest time.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.255M [15th] | 0.740D [4th]
H2: 2.201M [16th] | 0.700D [5th]
H3: 1.995M [17th] | 0.620D [6th]

3H: 2.150M | 0.687D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.054M | - 2.39% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 5.41% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.206M | - 9.36% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 11.43% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.260M | - 11.53% ]
[ - 0.120D | - 16.22% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.058M | - 2.63% ]
[ - 0.006D | - 0.87% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.044M | - 2.01% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 9.25% ]

All-Time viewership rankings:

5th lowest H1
9th lowest H2
12th lowest H3

10th lowest 3H*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE




----------



## shadows123

Pretty much the same demo, same viewership etc as the past two weeks. Nothing surprising there.. Raw lacks stars and it shows.. unless the NWO who are about to be inducted and Batista are brought back for major angles to bring in viewership, there is nothing on the show that looks like it can change a damn thing. Put Triple H over damn it ?


----------



## Mongstyle

The Definition of Technician said:


> I've already addressed so many times. You're all repeating the same shit and contradicting yourself time and time again.
> 
> Dave Meltzer said it
> 
> 
> 
> You all keep forgetting the many variables that happened before like WOAT ratings trend starting way back in July, or the fact that barely 4 months before Becky was just a jobber, or losing the FOTC and pretty much the only guy that mattered suddenly.. There were 2 shows concentrated on Becky/Stephanie/HHH/Ronda story (mind you, nobody really wanted to see, many Becky fans included), after those 2 shows they did the Flair Celebration and started building a few more matches towards Mania and Kofimania was taking off.
> THEN, all of you claimed that women "bombed the ratings", "look at how the ratings increased when batista/hhh and Brock amd Kofi all became more important and got more time"..yet apparantly Becky/Ronda STILL drew the most (and of course I'm attributing this largely to Ronda).
> 
> And then, then that was almost 8 months ago, you would think by some of the reaction of the geeks or bitter fans talking BS like "she's stale", "worst reign eva", "becky 2 stars", that she'd had gotten cold, after all so many claimed she won't be able to remain that over, yet she still is, one of the most over, biggest merch seller, and biggest draws in the company. You don't get be a top merch seller + get regularly the biggest views on the show they're on + have your face plastered everywhere and doing commercials without being a draw.
> 
> You then get more ridiculous geeks saying she's no Austin or McGregor? who the fuck said she is? She's got charisma for days and she gives the best fiery promos in the division and hypes the crowd like no one else. And guess what, NOBODY is like Austin or McGregor, you are talking of mount Rushmore, and we're talking about a big star today who was nothing but a jobber for the longest time.


Here's also something Dave Meltzer said:


> "They were down 8% year on year for the Network.
> 
> Last year for WM they had a pretty decent year as far as the growth and this year going into WM it was not that strong, a little down from last year. If you look at the numbers of the decrease last year and this year for the Network, it pretty much collapsed this year. Which tells us what we kind of already knew, the interest in WWE right now coming out of WM was really weak.
> 
> Coming out of WM it was supposed to be Becky Lynch and everything, but as soon as Ronda was gone... We both know, we both thought it. Anyone who thinks Becky Lynch was the most valuable women in the company, there is no way now. You could have argued it before, it's so clear this thing was carried by Ronda and her name. The minute Becky didn't have Ronda, granted she worked with Lacey which is a big drop. The network never had a drop and now it has a big drop. All these changes I don't see them helping, I see more and more people getting confused with the network and more and more frustrated."


She's a flop. She did fuck all for business.

And look at the most recent Raw rating now. Her ass has been off TV for two weeks, and it didn't even matter. Her return did nothing. And when she's there, she does nothing. That's her existence and status as a draw. An absolute nothing.

The biggest trash fire Mania season ever happened in 2019 with the worst business they've ever done and it was built around her marble mouthed ass.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hour 3 higher than last week. The only hour to increase week to week. You're welcome!


----------



## Rozzop

Mongstyle said:


> Here's also something Dave Meltzer said:
> 
> She's a flop. She did fuck all for business.
> 
> And look at the most recent Raw rating now. Her ass has been off TV for two weeks, and it didn't even matter. Her return did nothing. And when she's there, she does nothing. That's her existence and status as a draw. An absolute nothing.
> 
> The biggest trash fire Mania season ever happened in 2019 with the worst business they've ever done and it was built around her marble mouthed ass.


Dont waste your time. If people like the ginger, gurning, bad ass midgit its up to them. 

For a supposed FOTC where is her promos? Where are her storylines? Does she ever defend the belt? 

Imagine her opening RAW giving 20 minute promos every week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Down 2% year over year, the 2nd week in a row the drop was in single digits.

Also, Hour 1 to Hour 3 retention was much better than usual. I've been saying it for awhile. They should run more stories that take place and end before the end of the show like they did with the heel turn last night.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> Down 2% year over year, the 2nd week in a row the drop was in single digits.
> 
> Also, Hour 1 to Hour 3 retention was much better than usual. I've been saying it for awhile. They should run more stories that take place and end before the end of the show like they did with the heel turn last night.


Of course the hour 1 to hour 3 retention was better than usual when the first hour is that low.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> Of course the hour 1 to hour 3 retention was better than usual when the first hour is that low.


It's been in that range for awhile now.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> It's been in that range for awhile now.


Usually the drop between hour 1 and hour is "proportional" to how big the number for the first hour is.
The higher the first hour is and the bigger the drop is.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> Usually the drop between hour 1 and hour is "proportional" to how big the number for the first hour is.
> The higher the first hour is and the bigger the drop is.


They've had lower hour 3's recently with similar hour 1's to last night. Even as low as 1.7 and 1.8.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> They've had lower hour 3's recently with similar hour 1's to last night. Even as low as 1.7 and 1.8.


When ?

I know one week the hour 3 was way down because there was a crazy NFL game going on.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> When ?
> 
> I know one week the hour 3 was way down because there was a crazy NFL game going on.


Over the past month, and since the football season started. This is the best retention they've had in a long time.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Cringy Lynch doesn't draw. :brock2


----------



## The_It_Factor

People still think NFL has some sort of huge impact on WWE ratings in 2019 lol.... it doesn’t... and hasn’t for years.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Hour 3 not as bad as some weeks but still below 2M. The worrisome number for the 'E is that pathetic first hour.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

gronk7 said:


> how on earth is seth pulling these ratings - same as last year - and the nfl is stronger this year - not a draw? - yeah right - hes the biggest draw since austin -


Seth bigger draw than Hogan/Andre on Saturday Night's Main event? LMMFAO!!!


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Why should fans care to watch when the show has no Championship title and Brock cant even care to show up.

No main event mens feud or draw. 

Becky is getting all the blame but what about Brock??


----------



## ClintDagger

I think WWE is paying for a shit build to TLC and dragging out Seth’s turn too long. I actually liked the way it played out but I don’t think today’s audience cares for a slow turn that takes 3 or 4 episodes. I also think as good as Seth has been so far as a heel Owens isn’t going to cut it as the face. But then the question becomes, what other options do they have? Seth is not a star and never will be one, but he could play a very good foil to create a star if only there was somebody with potential. I do think Raw is the better written show but they are totally devoid of any star power. SD has a little bit better star power (not much), but isn’t taking any of the chances that Raw is.

As far as the H3 retention, it seems anecdotally that a show where a title match main events does better than an angle. For whatever that’s worth.


----------



## Not Lying

Mongstyle said:


> Here's also something Dave Meltzer said:
> 
> She's a flop. She did fuck all for business.
> 
> And look at the most recent Raw rating now. Her ass has been off TV for two weeks, and it didn't even matter. Her return did nothing. And when she's there, she does nothing. That's her existence and status as a draw. An absolute nothing.
> 
> The biggest trash fire Mania season ever happened in 2019 with the worst business they've ever done and it was built around her marble mouthed ass.


Oh this such a bad post ?

Yeah so that’s not true, that’s the weakest rebuttal i’ve ever seen on this forum, you guys are simply bitter haters and when confronted with facts you run to that little quote of Meltzer or change your narrative ?

Once you can form a few sentences arguing my points then I’ll waste my time on you geeks that have no lives and spend their time arguing that a top merch seller, most over, gets top segment views, and increases viewership “is not a draw” (imagine being so pathetic you have to twist facts and change your narrative everytime because you don’t like the fact someone is a draw ?)

You saying she did “fuck all” is clearly wrong, and putting the blame of NETWORK subs on ONE person has got to be the biggest reach lowlives have done yet.


----------



## Gh0stFace

How did TLC sell any tickets with 0 matches announced? Like WTF!!!


----------



## ellthom

Who is still watching Raw? Ratings are over 2 million, who is still watching? AEW and NxT and even NWA Powerrr are far better shows. Yet Raw and Smackdown are doing views... 

I really wanna see the people who still watch and why. Raw and Smackdown are not even worthy of over 200k. let alone 1 million. It must be addiction, I wanna know where these views are coming from lol.


----------



## Zappers

What all this about Becky Lynch being the companies top merchandise seller? Gonna need concrete proof on that. FYI, WWE doesn't reveal this info. So the trash reports by the dirtsheets like meltzer and other garbage sites like fightful are all opinions. They know squat.

Does she sell a lot of merch? Yes. But that was back when the "the Man" thing was hot. It was a gimmick, people bought the plain black T-Shirt for the goof. That's done now, Let's not pretend these shirts are hot like NWO. I bet people still buy NWO merch more than Becky Lynch stuff.


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> What all this about Becky Lynch being the companies top merchandise seller? Gonna need concrete proof on that. FYI, WWE doesn't reveal this info. So the trash reports by the dirtsheets like meltzer and other garbage sites like fightful are all opinions. They know squat.
> 
> Does she sell a lot of merch? Yes. But that was back when the "the Man" thing was hot. It was a gimmick, people bought the plain black T-Shirt for the goof. That's done now, Let's not pretend these shirts are hot like NWO. I bet people still buy NWO merch more than Becky Lynch stuff.


It doesn’t matter who is selling the most merch when sales are in the toilet. It would be better to be #20 or worse during a hot era versus being in the top 3 in the worst era ever.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> It doesn’t matter who is selling the most merch when sales are in the toilet. It would be better to be #20 or worse during a hot era versus being in the top 3 in the worst era ever.


That's one way of looking at it. Interesting theory.


----------



## xio8ups

picture dave meltzer with that sstupid tounge of his wagging up paul heymans buttcheeks


----------



## Ace

Raw on 12/9 did 2,149,000 viewers (1.36 viewers per home), down 2.6 percent from the prior week. The number was lower even though the NFL game between the New York Giants and Philadelphia Eagles was down 19 percent to 11,360,000 viewers.

The show started out much lower, but the audience held up better. Raw was 15th for the day in total viewers due to the impeachment hearings, but beat everything but NFL-related programming in the 18-49 demo. The audience was only down 2.1 percent from the same week last year, although at the time that week was the lowest number in modern history.

The first hour did 2,255,000 viewers. The second hour did 2,201,000 viewers. The third hour did 1,995,000 viewers.

The high pont of the show was the Lana/Rusev divorce which did 2,363,000 viewer. The low point was the spoof on Saturday Night Live’s weekend update with The Street Profits that did 1,864,000 viewers.

The median viewer age was 49.7 years old.

As far as the viewer swing, teenagers grew from 55,000 to 78,000 (35,000 to 52,000 boys) from the start of the show to the main event, but every other age group fell greatly during the show. Under five fell from 49,000 to 32,000, 6-11 from 82,000 to 56,000, 18-34 from 375,000 to 242,000, 35-49 from 678,000 to 456,000 and over 50 from 1,154,000 to 981,000.

The end of Lana/Rusev and brawl with Bobby Lashley and the intros of Matt Hardy vs. Drew McIntyre lost 171,000 viewers in a segment with two commercial breaks. Hardy vs. McIntyre and the Kevin Owens/Mojo Rawley backstage gained 20,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Street Profits and the beginning of the Seth Rollins/Kevin Owens in-ring gained 41,000 viewers. The Owens/Sami Zayn/Rawley in-ring and the beginning of Aleister Black vs. Akira Tozawa lost 2,000 viewers. The end of Black vs. Tozawa and beginning of Humberto Carrillo vs. Andrade gained 21,000 viewers. Carrillo vs. Andrade lost 17,000 viewers. Zack Ryder vs. Buddy Murphy and the Rollins reveal and in-ring heel turn promo gained 71,000 viewers. Becky Lynch vs. Kabuki Warriors and post-match angles with the Kabuki Warriors involving that lost 162,000 viewers. The Weekend Update segment lost 200,000 viewers. That’s the problem with doing Events Centers. They do help sell the PPVs, but they hurt ratings. Rey Mysterio vs. A.J. Styles in the main event segment gained 10,000 viewers.

The show did a 0.37 in 12-17 (down 5.1 percent from last week), 0.42 in 18-34 (down 6.7 percent), 0.96 in 35-49 (up 3.2 percent) and 0.93 in 50+ (down 3.2 percent).

The audience was 68.1 percent male in 18-49 and 68.7 percent male in 12-17, both higher male skews than normal.

The 11/18 Raw show gained 19 percent in viewers and 23 percent in 18-49 viewers when you include DVR viewership.

-Observer Newsletter


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

Gh0stFace said:


> How did TLC sell any tickets with 0 matches announced? Like WTF!!!


yeah i wonder that also. i'll watch it out of tradition but i reserve the right to turn off if nothing fun is happening.
maybe we'll get a treat like a surprise alexa match or something, who knows.


----------



## tducey

Yeah, the TLC build has been awful, one of the worst PPV builds I can remember.


----------



## RobertOleson

But it doesn't help that their current FOTC is not fit for the role. The idea that The Rock and Seth Rollins are equal in value is insane.

Of course The Rock could take the material that Rollins has been given and produce better performances/ratings. He's a vastly superior performer to Rollins.


----------



## tducey

Yeah, The Rock's up here in terms of impact and appeal while






Rollins is down here.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.204M [11th] | 0.670D [4th] 
H2: 2.099M [12th] | 0.620D [8th]
H3: 1.858M [14th] | 0.520D [11th]

3H: 2.054M | 0.603D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.105M | - 4.76% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 7.46% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.241M | - 11.48% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 16.13% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.346M | - 15.70% ]
[ - 0.150D | - 22.39% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.096M | - 4.47% ]
[ - 0.084D | - 12.23% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.493M | - 19.36% ]
[ - 0.257D | - 29.88% ]

All-Time viewership rankings:

3rd lowest H1
3rd lowest H2
6th lowest H3

3rd lowest 3H*


----------



## shadows123

That PPV bump ?

Its the same story though every week, not much difference here..


----------



## Ace

Lmao they got fucked hard by Drew Brees breaking Manning's TD record.


----------



## llj

h1 and h2 getting lower and lower every week. Pretty soon all will be under 2m. I'm guessing we're down to the WWE diehards now and it shows. God, it shows. And those diehards are those people in the crowds eating their overpriced hot dogs, texting on their phones, and not making noise. The type of fans the WWE richly deserve.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The year to year drop is amazing in both total viewers and demo*.
Y-Y:
[ - 0.493M | - 19.36% ]
[ - 0.257D | - 29.88% ]*









Almost 30% in the demo. The NFL game isn't a valid excuse either because last year's game was higher rated.









WWE is finally getting the ratings they so richly deserve.


----------



## Ace

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> The year to year drop is amazing in both total viewers and demo*.
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.493M | - 19.36% ]
> [ - 0.257D | - 29.88% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost 30% in the demo. The NFL game isn't a valid excuse either because last year's game was higher rated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE is finally getting the ratings they so richly deserve.


 Actually it is, Brees broke the all time TD record in this match - so people would have switched over when he got close.

I don't even really follow NFL and it was all over my feed.


----------



## ClintDagger

Wow. That’s bad. Not surprising though. TLC was an awful show with an awful main event.


----------



## McNugget

Next week is going to be the lowest rating of all time.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I just can't wait another 2-3 years for their eventual demise. Just fall under 2M and then 1.5 M viewers for both Raw and SD already! I'll be very happy.


----------



## InexorableJourney

André (about the WWE Universe): They're learning.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

@*JonnyAceLaryngitis 

You said that Hour 3 was the sixth lowest ever. I assume that is for total viewers. Do you have the all time low stats for the Hour 3 demo? .52 is colosally awful and I can't imagine too many being below that number.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> The year to year drop is amazing in both total viewers and demo*.
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.493M | - 19.36% ]
> [ - 0.257D | - 29.88% ]*


If you lose on average even 15-20% of your demo each year, I can't imagine how long USA will want Raw. That demo can't be worth what they are paying WWE to get those numbers. I remember when CM Punk was called a ratings killer for getting 4+ million. WWE now has half that lol


----------



## Chrome

Randy Lahey said:


> If you lose on average even 15-20% of your demo each year, I can't imagine how long USA will want Raw. That demo can't be worth what they are paying WWE to get those numbers. I remember when CM Punk was called a ratings killer for getting 4+ million. WWE now has half that lol


USA is practically WWE's bitch at this point so I doubt they do anything. Raw has been dropping ratings for YEARS now and all they got for it was a billion dollar contract lol.


----------



## domotime2

as long as they're in the top bracket of ratings there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## The XL 2

They're at 2 mil now. Not long until they go under. Awful product


----------



## ClintDagger

domotime2 said:


> as long as they're in the top bracket of ratings there's nothing to worry about.


There’s plenty to be worried about if they can’t stem these huge YoY drops. Raw isn’t like every other tv show where only the show itself is on the line. They’ve basically become almost wholly dependent on their tv contracts for revenue (outside of the SA stuff which is precarious) which means their entire company is at stake in many ways. Being publicly traded they really have to keep upping the ante on those tv contracts every time they come up or risk a nosedive in value which then puts them at real risk of a buyout from a bigger fish. Right now I just can’t see anything other than a sharp decline in the value of their product which means they really need to turn this around like they did in ‘18 which landed those contracts to begin with.


----------



## Garty

ClintDagger said:


> There’s plenty to be worried about if they can’t stem these huge YoY drops. Raw isn’t like every other tv show where only the show itself is on the line. They’ve basically become almost wholly dependent on their tv contracts for revenue (outside of the SA stuff which is precarious) which means their entire company is at stake in many ways. Being publicly traded they really have to keep upping the ante on those tv contracts every time they come up or risk a nosedive in value which then puts them at real risk of a buyout from a bigger fish. Right now I just can’t see anything other than a sharp decline in the value of their product which means they really need to turn this around like they did in ‘18 which landed those contracts to begin with.


Very well spoken. I never thought of the aspect of relying, mainly, on the TV deals because we have seen the numbers of falling house show attendance, Raw/SmackDown cancellations, lower network subscribers, etc. which obviously leads to lesser earnings. If they survived going against WCW, they can handle this current downturn, but for how long?


----------



## JTB33b

This is why we need to root for AEW to find a way to gain viewers because it's our only hope for wrestling to be saved and be somewhat cool again. Vince,HHH, and Steph have no interest at all in improving the product. And like a cult the performers working there are brainwashed into believing they could do no wrong and everything is alright. It's all the fans fault for not accepting the product they are given to them.


----------



## FITZ

ClintDagger said:


> There’s plenty to be worried about if they can’t stem these huge YoY drops. Raw isn’t like every other tv show where only the show itself is on the line. They’ve basically become almost wholly dependent on their tv contracts for revenue (outside of the SA stuff which is precarious) which means their entire company is at stake in many ways. Being publicly traded they really have to keep upping the ante on those tv contracts every time they come up or risk a nosedive in value which then puts them at real risk of a buyout from a bigger fish. Right now I just can’t see anything other than a sharp decline in the value of their product which means they really need to turn this around like they did in ‘18 which landed those contracts to begin with.


They're locked into those giant contract for quite some time. It's hard to predict what the content market (and I don't even want to say TV market) will be like when their current deals expire. Right now I think content is as valuable as it's ever been. There's so many different sources right now that are trying to make stuff and they're paying a shitload of money for it. The question is if there's a bubble that will burst at some point or if content is just going to continue to be really expensive. 

WWE's business model and stock valuation is premised on the idea that even with less people watching their show every week the entertainment industry will be willing to pay them more and more because there's such a demand for content.


----------



## fabi1982

Always funny how all the AEW fanboys who attack everyone in the AEW ratings thread to stop painting the end of the world on the wall do the exact same thing in here. Oh and NFL isnt an excuse, but MLB, political programming, the fucking wizzard of Oz is an excuse for low AEW ratings. Funny and sad at the same time, but mostly sad...


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> @*JonnyAceLaryngitis
> 
> You said that Hour 3 was the sixth lowest ever. I assume that is for total viewers. Do you have the all time low stats for the Hour 3 demo? .52 is colosally awful and I can't imagine too many being below that number.*


*Lowest hourly RAW viewership since RAW went 3H ( 16 hours below 2.0M ):

1.752M - H1 - 24/12/18
1.753M - H3 - 11/11/19
1.784M - H3 - 24/12/18
1.789M - H2 - 24/12/18
1.843M - H3 - 31/12/18
1.845M - H3 - 09/09/19
1.849M - H3 - 04/11/19
1.858M - H3 - 16/12/19
1.896M - H3 - 25/11/19
1.898M - H3 - 29/04/19
1.909M - H3 - 10/06/19
1.925M - H3 - 18/11/19
1.928M - H3 - 28/10/19
1.928M - H3 - 02/12/19
1.995M - H3 - 09/12/19
1.997M - H3 - 14/10/19

All-time hourly viewership rankings:

3rd lowest H1 | 48th lowest overall
3rd lowest H2 | 32nd lowest overall
6th lowest H3 | 8th lowest overall

Lowest hourly RAW demos since RAW went 3H ( 28 demos below 0.700D ):

0.520D - H3 - 16/12/19
0.520D - H3 - 11/11/19
0.520D - H3 - 31/12/18
0.540D - H3 - 24/12/18
0.550D - H2 - 24/12/18
0.560D - H1 - 24/12/18
0.590D - H3 - 10/06/19
0.600D - H3 - 02/12/19
0.600D - H3 - 18/11/19
0.600D - H2 - 31/12/18
0.610D - H1 - 31/12/18
0.620D - H2 - 16/12/19
0.620D - H3 - 09/12/19
0.630D - H3 - 25/11/19
0.630D - H3 - 14/10/19
0.630D - H3 - 09/09/19
0.640D - H3 - 16/09/19
0.640D - H3 - 06/05/19
0.640D - H3 - 29/04/19
0.650D - H3 - 04/11/19
0.650D - H3 - 28/10/19
0.650D - H3 - 23/09/19
0.650D - H2 - 10/06/19
0.660D - H2 - 11/11/19
0.670D - H1 - 16/12/19
0.670D - H3 - 17/06/19
0.670D - H3 - 27/05/19
0.680D - H1 - 07/01/19

All-time hourly demo rankings:

3rd lowest H1 | 25th lowest overall
3rd lowest H2 | 12th lowest overall
Lowest ever H3 | Lowest ever overall*


----------



## Batista'sNoseRing

Trouble is a coming when the XFL folds again.


----------



## ellthom

I hope it keeps going down until it gets to AEW and NxT numbers then the real wars can begin.


----------



## llj

ellthom said:


> I hope it keeps going down until it gets to AEW and NxT numbers then the real wars can begin.


the race to the bottom


----------



## ellthom

llj said:


> the race to the bottom


When everyone's at the bottom there's only one way to go, and thats up


----------



## Erramayhem89

I've just quit watching. RAW is so boring and doesn't feel like a big show anymore. SD isn't much better. They aren't even worth tuning in to


----------



## Dark Emperor

Very poor ratings.

But to be honest, December is usually the WWE's weakest period once Survivor series is done. So it'll probably get lower next week but pick up soon.


----------



## Seafort

Realistically, RAW will probably be averaging between 1.75 and 1.8M viewers a week a year from now, and 1.5M in two years. We’re in a post WWE superstar era, so the addition or subtraction of any performer is not going to significantly change things.

The challenge is presentation. The product is stale beyond belief. The production is cliched. Everything within the narrow confines of how WWE views wrestling has already been done, and WWE’s BIG IDEA is to further minimalize storytelling and do multiweek tournaments and 90 minutes gauntlet matches.

Again, just continued gradual erosion.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

So whose fault is it that the ratings suck this week? Let me guess according to the geeks it’s Becky lynch even though she was not featured on the show. Wwe needs to do a better job with the presentation of their stars and storylines from top to bottom. Wwe also needs to hire young millennial writers and producers that can identify with today’s pop cultural society.


----------



## Rozzop

Tk Adeyemi said:


> So whose fault is it that the ratings suck this week? Let me guess according to the geeks it’s Becky lynch even though she was not featured on the show. Wwe needs to do a better job with the presentation of their stars and storylines from top to bottom. Wwe also needs to hire young millennial writers and producers that can identify with today’s pop cultural society.


They have been ran off. Not interested in WWE anymore. 

They dont pick and choose what Raw to watch and how would they know whether she is on Raw this week or not? 

And I would guess its cos of multiple reasons why they have given up.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Batista'sNoseRing said:


> Trouble is a coming when the XFL folds again.


Oh man I forgot about that. How much money did the first time cost Vince? The wrestlers better get their coin while they can


----------



## domotime2

ClintDagger said:


> There’s plenty to be worried about if they can’t stem these huge YoY drops. Raw isn’t like every other tv show where only the show itself is on the line. They’ve basically become almost wholly dependent on their tv contracts for revenue (outside of the SA stuff which is precarious) which means their entire company is at stake in many ways. Being publicly traded they really have to keep upping the ante on those tv contracts every time they come up or risk a nosedive in value which then puts them at real risk of a buyout from a bigger fish. Right now I just can’t see anything other than a sharp decline in the value of their product which means they really need to turn this around like they did in ‘18 which landed those contracts to begin with.


But if they're a top 5 watched show when they're one, why panic?


----------



## llj

domotime2 said:


> But if they're a top 5 watched show when they're one, why panic?


Honestly, they're regularly showing signs of slowly slipping out of the top 5


----------



## Ace

So for those who talked up Becky's quarterly's being highest, her match last week lost 120,000 viewers and her backstage interview lost 160,000 viewers this week.

Goes to show how important segment slots are and some naturally gain/lose.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Ace said:


> So for those who talked up Becky's quarterly's being highest, her match last week lost 120,000 viewers and her backstage interview lost 160,000 viewers this week.
> 
> Goes to show how important segment slots are and some naturally gain/lose.


Not surprising most people don't want to watch a clumsy, cringy, graceless robot with orange hair, an Irish annoying accent, and if all that wasn't bad enough, a completely unattractive, unfeminine, ridiculous voice. Oh, and then she's "the man" too! Lmao. Complete channel changer and garbage. I remember BETH PHOENIX was kinda cute/feminine and had personality when she was partnered with Santino. Beth fucking Phoenix! That cringy Lynch creature though... Yuck. Oh, I forgot to mention her ridiculous, grim, wannabe badass of a forced serious expression. A few seconds of an accidental glimpse, and one changes the channel.


----------



## incomplete moron

Ace said:


> So for those who talked up Becky's quarterly's being highest, her match last week lost 120,000 viewers and her backstage interview lost 160,000 viewers this week.
> 
> Goes to show how important segment slots are and some naturally gain/lose.


lol where are now those pathetic retarded white knights who claimed women draw ratingz


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 1.955M [10th] | 0.560D [4th]
H2: 1.864M [12th] | 0.530D [6th]
H3: 1.686M [16th] | 0.480D [9th]

3H: 1.835M | 0.523D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.091M | - 4.65% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.36% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.178M | - 9.55% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.43% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.269M | - 13.76% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 14.29% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.219M | - 10.66% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 13.27% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ + 0.060M | + 3.38% ]
[ - 0.027D | - 4.91% ]

All-Time viewership rankings:

2nd lowest H1
2nd lowest H2
Lowest ever H3 | Record low hour

2nd lowest 3H

All-Time demo rankings:

Lowest ever H1
Lowest ever H2
Lowest ever H3 | Record low demo*


----------



## Rozzop

RAW will be on the network sooner rather than later. 

I know its Christmas and ratings always reflect that but who wants to sit through a 3 hour show where 4 or 5 matches are squashes. 

I really dont know what the goal here is with WWE. Are they intentionally sabotaging from within?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE




----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I was expecting worse considering spoilers were online for a full week, aired the day before Christmas Eve, and went up against an NFL game in which the NFC North Title was up for grabs.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also, up from last year's Christmas show which did a 1.7, this year did a 1.835.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

^Last year took place on Christmas Eve though didn't it? I remember that was a killer in 2012 and it was a killer last year as well.

Anyway you slice it, it's a horrible number. Only real point to explain it is it was a taped show. The spoilers didn't have anything interesting on them I thought besides Joe getting attacked by AOP. Rusev was in a squash match so didn't really care about that myself. It was just a nothing show. Next week will be a bit more interesting due to not being taped and to see how Joe responds to the attack (if he responds).


----------



## llj

It is about the expected rating for this week. Though it's bad that not 1 of the hours hit 2m


----------



## The XL 2

Lmfao, 1.8 overall with a 1.68 3rd hour. Partys over grandpa.

1.8 mil for Raw, 600K for AEW, the business is fucking DEAD in North America. Shit booking and awful roster construction, which basically has been the result of Vince putting charisma-less drones on top and all major companies listening to the "smart" marks filling out their rosters with these shit workrate guys who have no charisma and don't know how to actually work


----------



## .christopher.

The XL 2 said:


> Lmfao, 1.8 overall with a 1.68 3rd hour. Partys over grandpa.
> 
> 1.8 mil for Raw, 600K for AEW, the business is fucking DEAD in North America. Shit booking and awful roster construction, which basically has been the result of Vince putting charisma-less drones on top and all major companies listening to the "smart" marks filling out their rosters with these shit workrate guys who have no charisma and don't know how to actually work


Yep.

AEW aren't going to catch up to WWE's ratings; WWE are going to eventually sink to AEW's. RIP wrestling.


----------



## DammitChrist

Imagine thinking that the roster is full of “charisma vacuums,” that listening to the audience is a poor decision, that having great wrestlers on the roster is a bad move for the company, and that those wrestlers are to (wrongfully) blame for the poor ratings :mj4:


----------



## llj

What poor working big guy "mainstream draws" are there to push anyway? What big guys are there even in the business anymore? Hell, a lot of smarks were behind Luke Harper, and he's a big guy, he has decent personality, not just a 'vanilla midget' like a bunch of people here keep ragging about, yet I never saw much support from those people railing about how the company always pushes these "midget gymnasts." A lot of smarks and casuals alike were very supportive of Braun. Hell, 2-3 months barely go by when smarks aren't complaining about Braun's booking. So you can't blame smarks for not supporting him.

I don't think there are any answers. Wrestling as a genre is just dying in the U.S. and nothing seems to be able to stop it.

I've thought about this for a while. The reason why crowds also pop bigger for Stone Cold and AE guys isn't because of their sheer charisma...they aren't even doing anything when they appear nowadays...no, reason is because WWE's entire audience is practically over 45 now. It's just a bunch of 50+ people nostalgic for their Attitude Era to come back and are sticking around (or not, as it seems more and more) through sheer habit. If the WWE were healthy, those AE guys wouldn't get half the reactions they still do, because then that means the WWE would successfully have transitioned to a different, younger crowd. The fact that crowds KNOW who these old guys are really shows the audience's age.

A lot of it is Vince. He's extremely reluctant now to push unknowns, try different things much more than before. When he does push an unknown, he gives them shitty booking so that he can say "See, told you he's not as good as those proven old guys!" This is not assumption--you've heard Vince's interview on Stone Cold's podcast. He just doesn't get, or want to get how to appeal to a younger audience. That's why the product still consistently gears itself towards nostalgia. That's what Vince knows and loves best.

Wrestling is a terrible product to watch when the main audience is mostly 50+ and geared towards them. And I'm not that young either. I remember shit all the way from the 80s. And I think gearing it to people my age and older is the wrong move.


----------



## PirateMonkE

The taped show excuse is a myth. Taped Smackdown a month ago did better than average. Viewership also doesn't really drop when they do taped shows when Raw goes to Europe.

Being on two days before Christmas probably hurt. Especially with an important Monday Night game airing at the same time. Still, those numbers aren't good.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Thats what they get for catering to the neckbeard workrate marks. The entire roster besides a few big guys like Strowman, joe ,or Mcintyre are interchangeable vanilla gymnast with no charisma.


----------



## GRAPHICAL GHOST

Seafort said:


> Realistically, RAW will probably be averaging between 1.75 and 1.8M viewers a week a year from now, and 1.5M in two years.




And it will probably be averaging a couple of fellas by 2030


----------



## Interceptor88

I'm not going to say that WWE is done because, you know, I don't think that's the case. But they should be worried. People have blamed the ratings decline on streaming and whatever for 12 or 13 years. But you know what? Ten years ago, finding every full show in youtube a few hours after it had haired was easy, and I watched every WWE program that way. That's no longer the case. Still, they keep losing viewers. It has to mean something, don't you think? I can say that, of all the people I know that used to watch WWE back then no longer do it. I am the only one who at least bothers to read spoilers and watch a couple segments each week. And even I didn't watch anything this week because, you know, Raw seems *horrendous*. The only thing I could care to watch is Rey VS Styles, since I am a Rey fan, but it just feels... pointless. 

And what about these news of UFC beating WWE in over 10'000 attendants live shows? WWE is having trouble getting people to watch their televised shows and going to their house shows. You can blame the former on streaming even if it's a bit of a strecht, but what about the later? Shouldn't they be a bit worried about all of that? Because if they keep losing steam it may come a time when Arabia Saudi is no longer interested in celebrating a show there, for example. 

Actually there are a few things that are mildly interesting to me like the Fiend, Bryan, Sheamus or Rey. But they can't compensate the hours of blandness most of the roster bring. Why is Raw 3 hours? I'm in for the lowcard to get some spotlight but we don't need three matches each single Raw featuring uncharismatic turds.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

They better hope this was just cause of the holiday


----------



## KrysRaw1

Raw is a sinking turd. 1.8?? Haha. Damn. Its a shit show. Only small good thing is Joe/Seth and Bobby/Rusev


----------



## Seafort

DammitChrist said:


> Imagine thinking that the roster is full of “charisma vacuums,” that listening to the audience is a poor decision, that having great wrestlers on the roster is a bad move for the company, and that those wrestlers are to (wrongfully) blame for the poor ratings :mj4:


It;s


Lenny Leonard said:


> They better hope this was just cause of the holiday


Some of the missing audience will come back after the holidays. But how much of the audience that actually watched will be dismissive of RAW's turn to running numerous squash matches, and decline to come back for more of the same?


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

You guys overreact it’s the freaking holidays for goodness sake.


----------



## Bennu

The XL 2 said:


> Lmfao, 1.8 overall with a 1.68 3rd hour. Partys over grandpa.
> 
> 1.8 mil for Raw, 600K for AEW, the business is fucking DEAD in North America. Shit booking and awful roster construction, which basically has been the result of Vince putting charisma-less drones on top and all major companies listening to the "smart" marks filling out their rosters with these shit workrate guys who have no charisma and don't know how to actually work





CenaBoy4Life said:


> Thats what they get for catering to the neckbeard workrate marks. The entire roster besides a few big guys like Strowman, joe ,or Mcintyre are interchangeable vanilla gymnast with no charisma.


I see people are ignoring these posts:



DammitChrist said:


> Imagine thinking that the roster is full of “charisma vacuums,” that listening to the audience is a poor decision, that having great wrestlers on the roster is a bad move for the company, and that those wrestlers are to (wrongfully) blame for the poor ratings :mj4:





llj said:


> What poor working big guy "mainstream draws" are there to push anyway? What big guys are there even in the business anymore? Hell, a lot of smarks were behind Luke Harper, and he's a big guy, he has decent personality, not just a 'vanilla midget' like a bunch of people here keep ragging about, yet I never saw much support from those people railing about how the company always pushes these "midget gymnasts." A lot of smarks and casuals alike were very supportive of Braun. Hell, 2-3 months barely go by when smarks aren't complaining about Braun's booking. So you can't blame smarks for not supporting him.
> 
> I don't think there are any answers. Wrestling as a genre is just dying in the U.S. and nothing seems to be able to stop it.
> 
> I've thought about this for a while. The reason why crowds also pop bigger for Stone Cold and AE guys isn't because of their sheer charisma...they aren't even doing anything when they appear nowadays...no, reason is because WWE's entire audience is practically over 45 now. It's just a bunch of 50+ people nostalgic for their Attitude Era to come back and are sticking around (or not, as it seems more and more) through sheer habit. If the WWE were healthy, those AE guys wouldn't get half the reactions they still do, because then that means the WWE would successfully have transitioned to a different, younger crowd. The fact that crowds KNOW who these old guys are really shows the audience's age.
> 
> A lot of it is Vince. He's extremely reluctant now to push unknowns, try different things much more than before. When he does push an unknown, he gives them shitty booking so that he can say "See, told you he's not as good as those proven old guys!" This is not assumption--you've heard Vince's interview on Stone Cold's podcast. He just doesn't get, or want to get how to appeal to a younger audience. That's why the product still consistently gears itself towards nostalgia. That's what Vince knows and loves best.
> 
> Wrestling is a terrible product to watch when the main audience is mostly 50+ and geared towards them. And I'm not that young either. I remember shit all the way from the 80s. And I think gearing it to people my age and older is the wrong move.


Remember who the champion is on RAW, Brock Lesnar. A big guy who supposed to have "mainstream appeal" and yet his title reign on RAW (as well as FOX's Smackdown before the switch) isn't improving WWE's numbers whatsoever so enough of this "the vanilla midgets" nonsense because it's obvious that even big larger than life wrestlers isn't cutting it either.


----------



## Randy Lahey

A 1.8 is their worst number ever. This was the day BEFORE Christmas Eve, so they can't even use the holiday excuse.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> A 1.8 is their worst number ever. This was the day BEFORE Christmas Eve, so they can't even use the holiday excuse.


Sure you can. People were using the day before Thanksgiving (never heard of that one before btw) as an excuse for AEW. People are still out traveling, stuck at airports, etc.


----------



## Mindy_Macready

Isn't this Monday night Raw, Paul Haymen in full control with the booking?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.525M [7th] | 0.800D [4th]
H2: 2.464M [8th] | 0.780D [5th]
H3: 2.328M [9th] | 0.720D [6th]

3H: 2.439M | 0.767D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.061M | - 2.42% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.50% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.136M | - 5.52% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.69% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.197M | - 7.80% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 10.00% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.604M | + 32.92% ]
[ + 0.244D | + 46.65% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ + 0.471M | + 23.93% ]
[ + 0.190D | + 32.93% ]*


----------



## Ace

First week with no Football and Raw is back to beating SD?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Wow. That's the same number SD gets on network television.


----------



## Chan Hung

So the ending did have a good rating? Looks like more of that to come lol


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Good rating all things considered up 600K from last weeks episode and I am the first person to mock their awful ratings.


----------



## chronoxiong

Crash TV equals ratings. This Lana/Rusev/Lashley storyline equals ratings. People are watching it for a reason. Kudos to WWE on this rating increase.


----------



## ClintDagger

Weddings always draw. Still true in 2019 / 2020.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Up half a million viewers year-on-year is hella impressive.


----------



## Ace

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Good rating all things considered up 600K from last weeks episode and I am the first person to mock their awful ratings.


 Yes, but no NFL or holiday. 

Need to see the next couple of weeks to see what this number means.

The retention is definitely good for Rusev/Lana/Lashley.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

The weeding is getting good ratings. Whether the smarks like it or not, people want to see a story line, segments, and promos (even a bad one) than a bunch of NXT like work-rate shit.


----------



## Garty

Uchiha Ghost said:


> The weeding is getting good ratings. Whether the smarks like it or not, people want to see a story line, segments, and promos (even a bad one) than a bunch of NXT like work-rate shit.


Well, if what was presented to you as "entertainment", than I do think you're watching the wrong program. If all you want to see is promos, segments and God-awful storylines like the "wedding", why don't you just go and sit in on an acting class for a few weeks and observe. That way, the pesky wrestling won't get in the way of your enjoyment.


----------



## Garty

Yes, they had a jump in viewers this week. Probably expected. No NFL, even though I have never understood the connection always being made between NFL fans and wrestling fans. A weak College Bowl game. TV Network repeats. And possibly, people, who are on Christmas shut-downs, holidays, etc. being able to watch the show during their downtime.

Of course, you can add together the "wedding" and interest in it, as being the only factor for the jump in ratings. However, Raw has been on a constant slide downward in overall ratings since September. There have been a few ups and downs, but for the most part, it's been in decline. That interest will soon disappear.


----------



## Rozzop

Garty said:


> Well, if what was presented to you as "entertainment", than I do think you're watching the wrong program. If all you want to see is promos, segments and God-awful storylines like the "wedding", why don't you just go and sit in on an acting class for a few weeks and observe. That way, the pesky wrestling won't get in the way of your enjoyment.


Characters and storylines are what matter in wrestling. 

No one is turning on the TV to watch Black against Murphy just like they weren't turning on the TV to watch Malenko against Saturn


----------



## Garty

Rozzop said:


> Characters and storylines are what matter in wrestling.


While I'll agree with you that you do need characters and you do need consistent, logical storylines to keep most fans interested, but there is nothing said, past or present, that can defend, or justify, the "wedding". That storyline did absolutely nothing for all involved. What did it accomplish, other than a few giggles (to some) and a "lesbian shocker" ending? Do people really want to see this storyline continue for another month? Two months? From a talent standpoint, there was nothing to gain and everything to lose. You still have Lana and Lashley as the heels and Rusev as the face. Tie-in Liv's "transformation", leaving most fans questioning WTF (and as much as those fans were shocked) asking why all the hype, only to have her reemerge as the same person, albeit lesbian.

Was this what WWE fans wanted? Did WWE listen to those fans? Did WWE fans ask for this type of storyline? Do you think Vince McMahon cares what WWE fans want and do you think he cares about whether or not WWE fans liked this storyline? The answer to all of those questions is, no.


----------



## Rozzop

Garty said:


> While I'll agree with you that you do need characters and you do need consistent, logical storylines to keep most fans interested, but there is nothing said, past or present, that can defend, or justify, the "wedding". That storyline did absolutely nothing for all involved. What did it accomplish, other than a few giggles (to some) and a "lesbian shocker" ending? Do people really want to see this storyline continue for another month? Two months? From a talent standpoint, there was nothing to gain and everything to lose. You still have Lana and Lashley as the heels and Rusev as the face. Tie-in Liv's "transformation", leaving most fans questioning WTF (and as much as those fans were shocked) asking why all the hype, only to have her reemerge as the same person, albeit lesbian.
> 
> Was this what WWE fans wanted? Did WWE listen to those fans? Did WWE fans ask for this type of storyline? Do you think Vince McMahon cares what WWE fans want and do you think he cares about whether or not WWE fans liked this storyline? The answer to all of those questions is, no.


I would rather watch the wedding segment than any Rusev vs Lashley match or Black vs Murphy part 5.

No it wasnt a great segment. But it wasnt boring. 

What do WWE fans want? For Rusev to have meaningless matches in the midcard or maybe have a push and become WWE champion? All the while delivering boring promos and boring matches? 

I would settle for Stone Cold coming out and reading out the phone book for 15 minutes each RAW rather than an Eric Rowan squash. 

I just find WWE dull, boring and safe. That wedding for all of its faults wasnt dull.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'd rather watch solid/fun matches like Aleister Black vs Buddy Murphy, Charlotte Flair vs Natalya, Kevin Owens vs Seth Rollins, Andrade vs Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton vs AJ Styles, Becky Lynch vs Asuka, and Viking Raiders vs Street Profits than whatever the hell that atrocious wedding segment was supposed to be this Monday


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> I'd rather watch solid/fun matches like Aleister Black vs Buddy Murphy, Charlotte Flair vs Natalya, Kevin Owens vs Seth Rollins, Andrade vs Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton vs AJ Styles, Becky Lynch vs Asuka, and Viking Raiders vs Street Profits than whatever the hell that atrocious wedding segment was supposed to be this Monday



Its fake.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its fake.


No shit, Captain Obvious.


----------



## southrnbygrace

I'll take a Black vs Murphy MATCH over that ridiculous wedding every day of the week. And twice on Sunday.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> No shit, Captain Obvious.


Then solid matches dont mean shit. Theres a whole portion of the audience they lost that don't give a shit about two guys seeing what they can get on the Meltzer scale.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

Garty said:


> Well, if what was presented to you as "entertainment", than I do think you're watching the wrong program. If all you want to see is promos, segments and God-awful storylines like the "wedding", why don't you just go and sit in on an acting class for a few weeks and observe. That way, the pesky wrestling won't get in the way of your enjoyment.


Except story-lines, segments, and promos are what established wrestling as on of the most watched things on television. Look at the Attitude Era and tell why me guys like The Rock and Stone Cold became so popular? Do you honestly think The Rock would have became one of the biggest actors in the world because of his wrestling skills? Lol


----------



## justinkjones1993

Over the top storylines and crash TV = ratings. The proof is in the numbers. It was true during the Attitude era and it's still true today.

Meanwhile, you have the smark favorite AEW losing viewers every episode, struggling to crack 800k a week. Despite how many flips and dives they perform, it just doesn't seem to be happening. Sure, the hardcore fans chant for them and buy their t-shirts, but the college aged folks who powered the success of the Attitude era would rather watch crash TV. Hence, the storylines have a much better chance of drawing them back in.

I'll also point out to those who are saying Rusev, Lana, Lashley or Liv are "ruined" that all four are objectively in a better position now than they were in 2018. They have gone from lower mid-card hell to main eventing Raw and driving up ratings.

I hope Vince McMahon sticks to his guns here and doesn't cave to the vocal minority who thinks storylines suck.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Then solid matches dont mean shit. Theres a whole portion of the audience they lost that don't give a shit about two guys seeing what they can get on the Meltzer scale.


First of all, your 'logic' is fucking terrible.

If we use your twisted perspective, then that (terrible) wedding segment must be very meaningless then since Bobby Lashley and Lana attempting to get married is fake (unlike wrestling matches that actually CAN get pretty physical btw). Plus, more people saw matches like Black vs Murphy on TV compared to the wedding segment; which must indicate that the mediocre closing segment doesn't mean shit either since it still couldn't beat the earlier hours that featured the wrestling portion of the program that supposedly "means shit" according to you 

I'd love to break this to you, but there's a whole portion of the audience that actually wants to see GOOD storylines/segments (like that Randy Orton/AJ Styles segment) AND fun wrestling matches (like Aleister Black vs Buddy Murphy) instead of that ridiculous wedding segment that's just intended to disorient fans with the stupid fuckery. I'll never get why folks are so generally opposed to wrestling in a company that features WRESTLING along with the (occasional) entertainment.

If the ratings for Raw take a slight increase within the next few more months (which I bet that they will), it's going to be because of the fact that we're close to Wrestlemania (36) season. It's not going to be because of shitty segments (like that awful wedding ceremony) that will inevitably fail in saving the ratings for Raw in the long-term.

Edit:

For the record, the folks who are defending/supporting Vince in writing up terrible storylines (like the one heavily featuring Lana) and the ones who are opposing what many vocal people genuinely want totally deserve the mediocre product that they get.


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

The wedding segment could have been better written with the right kind of participants I'm shocked people like that crap.


----------



## Fearless Viper

"WWE IS DYING...''









 USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network


USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.




www.usanetwork.com


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*H1: 2.550M [8th] | 0.780D [1st]
H2: 2.409M [9th] | 0.750D [2nd]
H3: 2.195M [10th] | 0.700D [3rd]

3H: 2.385M | 0.743D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.141M | - 5.53% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 3.85% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.214M | - 8.88% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 6.67% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.355M | - 13.92% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 10.26% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.054M | - 2.21% ]
[ - 0.024D | - 3.13% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ + 0.061M | + 2.62% ]
[ - 0.054D | - 6.78% ]*


----------



## llj

If the trend continues then it lends more credence to last year being a downblip.

It's unfortunate that this will give the Lana/Lashley/Rusev angle ammunition in its favour (while also disregarding the previous 3 months of the storyline when RAW was tanking)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> "WWE IS DYING...''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network
> 
> 
> USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usanetwork.com


That article right there is why WWE and Raw are going nowhere anytime soon and why there ratings are still very good into comparison to anything else on Cable these days.


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> If the trend continues then it lends more credence to last year being a downblip.
> 
> It's unfortunate that this will give the Lana/Lashley/Rusev angle ammunition in its favour (while also disregarding the previous 3 months of the storyline when RAW was tanking)


I expect that we’ll consistently see them beating 1 year ago metrics all the way through WM. A lot of people have forgotten or just downright didn’t want to admit how badly the ratings were hurt by what WWE was pushing in the main event from late Dec through WM.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also of note: 
Last year that RAW on 1/7 went up against Clemson and Alabama in the National Championship that did 25.2 million viewers


That could be why they're up on year on year, to be fair.


----------



## Garty

Showstopper said:


> Also of note:
> Last year that RAW on 1/7 went up against Clemson and Alabama in the National Championship that did 25.2 million viewers
> 
> 
> That could be why they're up on year on year, to be fair.


Stop trying to be rational.   It scares some users.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Here's the chart. Hours 1, 2, and 3 of Raw were the top 3 hours of all of cable TV last night. Dominance:


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Also of note:
> Last year that RAW on 1/7 went up against Clemson and Alabama in the National Championship that did 25.2 million viewers
> 
> 
> That could be why they're up on year on year, to be fair.


That’s actually a good call. I suppose that means the first true apples to apples comparison won’t be until 1/20/20. I wonder why the NC game is now a week later than it used to be? Also if memory serves the ratings didn’t really crater until post RR. Then they recovered when Batista, Hunter, and Roman came back around the same time.


----------



## llj

Usually the ratings go up right noticeably after football season ends. Last year, as I recall, numbers barely moved after Christmas and New Year.

While the ratings the last 2 weeks aren't "awesome", at least it follows the pattern of it gaining a few hundred thousand viewers after NFL regular season is over.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> That’s actually a good call. I suppose that means the first true apples to apples comparison won’t be until 1/20/20. I wonder why the NC game is now a week later than it used to be? Also if memory serves the ratings didn’t really crater until post RR. Then they recovered when Batista, Hunter, and Roman came back around the same time.


Not sure. But last week's ratings were slightly better than yesterday's Raw, so they still are on the rise since the NFL season ended. I'm not sure about last year except the ratings during the entire Road to WM were down from the previous year.

Either way, last week's rating and this week's rating is considerably better than what they were doing against the NFL before the season ended a couple of weeks ago. This week's show's all 3 hours topping the chart is something I'm sure USA is happy about.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also, did anyone read the article that Fearless Viper posted yesterday? It's a press release from USA Network on their official site that they released yesterday:



> Big news for *USA Network* as the new decade kicks off: The channel ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo for the third consecutive year, and the P25-54 demo for the second consecutive year!
> 
> Several key series boosted the network to the top spot. *WWE Monday Night Raw* was the #1 Cable Entertainment Program on Mondays, as well as the #1 Most Social Primetime Series in all of television.
> 
> It was an especially standout year for USA’s unscripted series. Looking across the television industry, *Chrisley Knows Best *was the #1 VOD Cable Unscripted Series, and *Straight Up Steve Austin* the #1 New Unscripted Cable Series for Men (18-49, 25-54).
> 
> Additionally on USA, *Temptation Island* sizzled as the network's #1 New Series (Scripted or Unscripted) and *Miz & Mrs* did an absolutely awesome job as its #1 Returning Unscripted series. *Treadstone* crushed as USA's #1 New Drama, while *Queen of the South* was its #1 Returning Drama.
> USA readies itself for another standout year, kicking off with the debut of *The Biggest Loser* on January 28 and the return of _Miz & Mrs_ on January 29. February 6 will see the premiere of Sam Esmail’s *Briarpatch*, as well as a new story of critically-acclaimed thriller *The Sinner*.
> The wins solidified USA as a #1 Network in Prime for 14 consecutive years.
> 
> *Keep your eyes on USANetwork.com for all the latest information, as well as full episodes and exclusive videos.*
> _Source: Cable Entertainment Ranks: Nielsen, 12/31/18-12/29/19 _











USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network


USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.




www.usanetwork.com





I mean, just read the first sentence of that press release:

"Big news for *USA Network* as the new decade kicks off: The channel ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo for the third consecutive year, and the P25-54 demo for the second consecutive year!"

That right there is why WWE and Raw are in no danger on the USA Network. The 2019 Raw ratings that we all view as 'awful', are the same ratings that launched USA Network into being the #1 in the key demos of P18-49 and P25-54. And these are the same ratings we all shit on all of 2019. 

They're doing better than fine by today's standards, which is all that matters to Networks. Comparing it to the AE or even the RA era ratings is pointless and irrelevant to these Networks. No one is doing those numbers anymore outside of NFL games and HUGE hits like GOT (which is no longer around) and big political debates that happen every few years. That's it.

So, we can shit on Raw's ratings from last year all we want, but they still boosted USA Network to being the highest watched. It is what it is.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Also, did anyone read the article that Fearless Viper posted yesterday? It's a press release from USA Network on their official site that they released yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network
> 
> 
> USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usanetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, just read the first sentence of that press release:
> 
> "Big news for *USA Network* as the new decade kicks off: The channel ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo for the third consecutive year, and the P25-54 demo for the second consecutive year!"
> 
> That right there is why WWE and Raw are in no danger on the USA Network. The 2019 Raw ratings that we all view as 'awful', are the same ratings that launched USA Network into being the #1 in the key demos of P18-49 and P25-54. And these are the same ratings we all shit on all of 2019.
> 
> They're doing better than fine by today's standards, which is all that matters to Networks. Comparing it to the AE or even the RA era ratings is pointless and irrelevant to these Networks. No one is doing those numbers anymore outside of NFL games and HUGE hits like GOT (which is no longer around) and big political debates that happen every few years. That's it.
> 
> So, we can shit on Raw's ratings from last year all we want, but they still boosted USA Network to being the highest watched. It is what it is.


Nobody with any sense is predicting near term cancellation for WWE on USA due to their ratings levels. SD on Fox? That could be in play 18-24 months from now but unless USA decides to go in another direction with their content WWE will be welcome there beyond this current contract for sure. Again, the risk for WWE is that their next go round of tv contract value gets vastly cut and the market reacts very negatively to that thus putting their management structure under fire. That’s the concern for WWE and I think they know it. There’s been some real efforts on their part to boost ratings especially with Raw and NXT.

Now for awhile there when Raw was consistently doing 20-30% YoY drops cancellation long-term had to be a worry because if you continue that for a number of years eventually the number gets so low that the stigma of having pro wrestling on your network outweighs the benefit. It looks like they’ve stemmed that for now so that isn’t a long term concern ATM.


----------



## Ace

Heyman stopped the bleed or they were looking at 2m week to week.


----------



## fabi1982

As this seems to be a common thing now I just want to throw DVR viewers in the ring as well. Looking at what all the "credible" sources are writing both RAW and SD are doing 400-500k DVR viewers, so this pushes RAW and SD to nearly 3m viewers. But yeah, who does include DVR for those shows, as this is only credible for AEW


----------



## Metalhead1

Raw has really gotten a lot better recently. Since AEW came on TV, they've really been forced to step up their game. Before they had any real competition, WWE would flog the same boring guys to death, with no personality or interesting story lines. Now, they're giving guys more personality and finally developing some story lines. Competition is good for all involved.


----------



## incomplete moron

Showstopper said:


> Also, did anyone read the article that Fearless Viper posted yesterday? It's a press release from USA Network on their official site that they released yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network
> 
> 
> USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usanetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, just read the first sentence of that press release:
> 
> "Big news for *USA Network* as the new decade kicks off: The channel ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo for the third consecutive year, and the P25-54 demo for the second consecutive year!"
> 
> That right there is why WWE and Raw are in no danger on the USA Network. The 2019 Raw ratings that we all view as 'awful', are the same ratings that launched USA Network into being the #1 in the key demos of P18-49 and P25-54. And these are the same ratings we all shit on all of 2019.
> 
> They're doing better than fine by today's standards, which is all that matters to Networks. Comparing it to the AE or even the RA era ratings is pointless and irrelevant to these Networks. No one is doing those numbers anymore outside of NFL games and HUGE hits like GOT (which is no longer around) and big political debates that happen every few years. That's it.
> 
> So, we can shit on Raw's ratings from last year all we want, but they still boosted USA Network to being the highest watched. It is what it is.


interesting.. but I knew it was like that, people always underestimate rating with that famous ''nobody watches anymore lol'' crap. they still have relatively good ratings unfortunately. when they drop below 0.5 or something like that (which they probably will in about 20 to 30 years or even more), then and only then we can talk about their possible extinction etc


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.218M [13th] | 0.660D [9th]
V2 | D2: 2.059M [16th] | 0.610D [10th]
V3 | D3: 1.814M [19th] | 0.560D [13th]

3V | 3D: 2.030M | 0.610D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.159M | - 7.17% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 7.58% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.245M | - 11.90% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.20% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.404M | - 18.21% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 15.15% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.355M | - 14.88% ]
[ - 0.133D | - 17.90% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.692M | - 25.42% ]
[ - 0.303D | - 33.19% ]

All-time lowest hourly viewerships:

5th lowest V1 | 59th lowest ever
5th lowest V2 | 27th lowest ever
4th lowest V3 | 6th lowest ever

All-time lowest 3V viewerships:

24/12/18 - 1.775M
23/12/19 - 1.835M
31/12/18 - 1.968M
13/01/20 - 2.030M
16/12/19 - 2.054M

All-time lowest hourly demos:

4th lowest D1 | 29th lowest ever
4th lowest D2 | 15th lowest ever
6th lowest D3 | 8th lowest ever

All-time lowest 3D demos:

23/12/19 - 0.523D
24/12/18 - 0.550D
31/12/18 - 0.577D
16/12/19 - 0.603D
13/01/20 - 0.610D*


----------



## llj

Kinda awful. College Football did monster numbers but it's still likely one of the worst non-holiday numbers ever


----------



## RainmakerV2

Surprised they held over 2 mil with that CFB game to be honest.


----------



## Erramayhem89

They are so close to being under 2 

I say by summer they won't be doing 2's anymore


----------



## Erik.

God that stinks.


----------



## Randy Lahey

They did 300,000 fewer viewers this year vs the championship game, than last year.

That’s a terrible rating. You can always count on the WWE marks, when they do a terrible rating, to say “I’m surprised it wasn’t worse”... the spin you people put out makes me think you work for WWE.


----------



## MoxAsylum

LOL. Rollins continuing to prove he’s a ratings disaster. I didn’t bother watching myself


----------



## Jet_420

The Ratings will be up next week and people will continue to praise wwe being on an up swing.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jet_420 said:


> The Ratings will be up next week and people will continue to praise wwe being on an up swing.


Next week will be interesting. I think they averaged 2.5 million over the three hours on 1/21/19, but they started over 2.8 million and fell to 2.1 million by the end. Last January was a pretty disappointing ratings month for them because they had little to no bump from the NFL season. With the RR around the corner it will be a bad sign if they can’t at least match that 2.5 million average.


----------



## Jet_420

ClintDagger said:


> Next week will be interesting. I think they averaged 2.5 million over the three hours on 1/21/19, but they started over 2.8 million and fell to 2.1 million by the end. Last January was a pretty disappointing ratings month for them because they had little to no bump from the NFL season. With the RR around the corner it will be a bad sign if they can’t at least match that 2.5 million average.


I think it'll go up a little not by much, but I don't expect it going into the 3.0 area, But I'll said maybe it'll fall around 2.6 or 2.7 tops for next week. (like you pointed out no bump from the NFL season and College Football is done. what will WWE be against on tv for the male demo?) is it the go home show before Rumble? Cause of course it'll be a bad sign if they can't get 2.5, but fans will either blame Seth Rollins or Praise the company still no matter what the rating situation is.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

It ha


Metalhead1 said:


> Raw has really gotten a lot better recently. Since AEW came on TV, they've really been forced to step up their game. Before they had any real competition, WWE would flog the same boring guys to death, with no personality or interesting story lines. Now, they're giving guys more personality and finally developing some story lines. Competition is good for all involved.


Raw has gotten a lot better? The Brock-Truth segment was entertaining and Black/Murphy was good but how many times can they keep doing it? The "Monday Night Messiah" crap is lame and the "first ever fist fight" was dumb.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

You mean to tell me Fat Owens in a wrestling match didn't keep the interest of the casuals? Lol....


----------



## ClintDagger

Jet_420 said:


> I think it'll go up a little not by much, but I don't expect it going into the 3.0 area, But I'll said maybe it'll fall around 2.6 or 2.7 tops for next week. (like you pointed out no bump from the NFL season and College Football is done. what will WWE be against on tv for the male demo?) is it the go home show before Rumble? Cause of course it'll be a bad sign if they can't get 2.5, but fans will either blame Seth Rollins or Praise the company still no matter what the rating situation is.


Yes it’s the go home show.


----------



## Metalhead1

> Raw has gotten a lot better? The Brock-Truth segment was entertaining and Black/Murphy was good but how many times can they keep doing it? The "Monday Night Messiah" crap is lame and the "first ever fist fight" was dumb.


OK, so maybe replace the word "alot" with "somewhat." Believe me, I'm not a big fan of WWE. I think a lot of their programming is totally boring. But they have been forced to step up their game ever since AEW started. The Lana-Lashley story line may be a bit cheesy, but at least it's entertaining and engaging. WWE never had story lines at all before they were forced to compete with AEW.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

As a self proclaimed AEW mark, this Raw rating is mighty impressive. I really felt like they would be between 1.6-1.8. Very rare to have a matchup of two QBs with as much talent, hype, and NFL chatter as Burrow & Lawrence.


----------



## xio8ups

turd show


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

CMPunkRock316 said:


> It ha
> 
> 
> Raw has gotten a lot better? The Brock-Truth segment was entertaining and Black/Murphy was good but how many times can they keep doing it? The "Monday Night Messiah" crap is lame and the "first ever fist fight" was dumb.


You forgot to add “in my opinion”.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Back up and won the demo/night pretty easily:










Hour 1: 2.548
Hour 2: 2.492
Hour 3: 2.101

2.38 million overall.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.548M [7th] | 0.900D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.492M [8th] | 0.870D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.101M [10th] | 0.730D [4th]

3V | 3D: 2.380M | 0.833D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.056M | - 2.20% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 3.33% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.391M | - 15.69% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 16.09% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.447M | - 17.54% ]
[ - 0.170D | - 18.89% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.350M | + 17.24% ]
[ + 0.223D | + 36.56% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.082M | - 3.33% ]
[ - 0.024D | - 2.80% ]*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Looks like without football theyre gonna be in the 2.3-2.5 mil range.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Site glitch created this double post. Might as well re-edit this later and repost.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 2.548M [7th] | 0.900D [1st]
> V2 | D2: 2.492M [8th] | 0.870D [2nd]
> V3 | D3: 2.101M [10th] | 0.730D [4th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 2.380M | 0.833D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.056M | - 2.20% ]
> [ - 0.030D | - 3.33% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.391M | - 15.69% ]
> [ - 0.140D | - 16.09% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.447M | - 17.54% ]
> [ - 0.170D | - 18.89% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ + 0.350M | + 17.24% ]
> [ + 0.223D | + 36.56% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Y-Y:
> [ - 0.082M | - 3.33% ]
> [ - 0.024D | - 2.80% ]*


Highest overall demo since RAW's latest iteration (09/30/19).


----------



## ClintDagger

Last year was ice cold coming out of the NFL season and into the rumble and they did 2.8, 2.7, 2.1 for a 2.55ish average for the go home. To not even sniff that has to be disappointing.


----------



## Y.2.J

Not a bad demo.

Everytime I see these ratings charts I can't help but think we're very hard on WWE ratings. RAW is consistently one of the top rated shows for Monday and then you look at other sports programs and RAW is drawing more than the Lakers game and Warriors game. Not bad.


----------



## RapShepard

Y.2.J said:


> Not a bad demo.
> 
> Everytime I see these ratings charts I can't help but think we're very hard on WWE ratings. RAW is consistently one of the top rated shows for Monday and then you look at other sports programs and RAW is drawing more than the Lakers game and Warriors game. Not bad.


Folk are stuck in the 90s and it's partly WWE's fault. If they didn't gloat about doing 6s and shit back in the AE maybe folk would judge ratings now realistically.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Y.2.J said:


> Not a bad demo.
> 
> Everytime I see these ratings charts I can't help but think we're very hard on WWE ratings. RAW is consistently one of the top rated shows for Monday and then you look at other sports programs and RAW is drawing more than the Lakers game and Warriors game. Not bad.


They dont care what critics think. FOX and USA obviously know the value of WWE programming, thats all that matters to Vince.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ahem:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220093788267388928
Tell us more how Raw's ratings are awful and dying..






UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 1.20.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## Zappers

I would have liked to have seen the ratings if they switched out the ending to RAW. Put that Ladder Match in the finale instead. Or even the Rollins and Murphy win.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

^Would have been more or less the same. If they advertised Brock and made it look like there was going to be some big brawl involving him for the closing segment, that's about the only way it might've done considerably better.


----------



## validreasoning

Y.2.J said:


> Not a bad demo.
> 
> Everytime I see these ratings charts I can't help but think we're very hard on WWE ratings. RAW is consistently one of the top rated shows for Monday and then you look at other sports programs and RAW is drawing more than the Lakers game and Warriors game. Not bad.


When you consider TNT are paying roughly same per hour for AEW now as USA were for an hour of Raw pre October 2019 (TNT are sharing ad revenue so total cost is likely to be minimum $60m a year for Turner).

Remember majority who frequented these pages in 2015-18 thought USA were overpaying for Raw and SD and WWE would be lucky to have get new deal and if they did it would be vastly less than the $30m per hour per annum they were getting.


----------



## xio8ups

2.4 million marks left


----------



## ClintDagger

Y.2.J said:


> Not a bad demo.
> 
> Everytime I see these ratings charts I can't help but think we're very hard on WWE ratings. RAW is consistently one of the top rated shows for Monday and then you look at other sports programs and RAW is drawing more than the Lakers game and Warriors game. Not bad.


It’s not about the static rating or the relative rating. Obviously being top for the night is where you want to be. What people who have been following this for awhile find noteworthy is how much viewership has been lost in the last say 4 or 5 years. You can’t sustain 10% and 20% drops YoY for very long. It has nothing to do with where they were in the 90s or anything like that. It’s about the recent trend. 5 years ago they did 4.1 million viewers for the Raw go home show. Where will they be if they fall at the same rate and are doing 1.3 million 5 years from now?

Last 6 Raw go homes:
2015: 4.1MM
2016: 3.50MM
2017: 3.30MM
2018: 4.53MM (25th Ann)
2019: 2.46MM
2020: 2.35 MM


----------



## Dark Emperor

Time to see how much of a draw Drew can be and a returning Edge is. I expect a decent spike in the ratings.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.541M [13th] | 0.810D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.441M [15th] | 0.760D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.224M [17th] | 0.720D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.402M | 0.763D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.100M | - 3.94% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 6.17% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.217M | - 8.89% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 5.26% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.317M | - 12.48% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 11.11% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.022M | + 0.92% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 8.40% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.301M | - 11.14% ]
[ - 0.187D | - 19.68% ]*


----------



## llj

A little bit of a bump, although not much of a bump. Still several 100k down from last year, which itself wasn't considered strong. We may have to face the reality that RTW may not be considered special anymore.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

On par with SD from a few days ago, which also did a 2.4, just slightly higher than Raw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1222268558098386945


----------



## llj

Rollins2k20 said:


> Big mistake by WWE to push Drew and Edge.
> 
> They would have broken the 2.5 million barrier, maybe even 2.75 million, had they let Rollins remain the focal point of the show.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> Big mistake by WWE to push Drew and Edge.
> 
> They would have broken the 2.5 million barrier, maybe even 2.75 million, had they let Rollins remain the focal point of the show.



Oh we got a live one boys.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> Who do you think has bumped the ratings the past month?
> 
> Who has helped RAW match Smarkdown on Network TV in the ratings?
> 
> Who helped RAW beat Lebron James?
> 
> It was Seth.



Whos alt is this. Your typing pattern looks familiar but I cant place my finger on it.


----------



## Mongstyle

That is a pathetic number in context.

They just made the Royal Rumble entirely about Raw. They gave Drew the big win to set up the match with Lesnar. They even had Edge return to Raw. The result? A number which doesn't even match the wedding episode of Raw from a month ago.

There was no bump at all from last week if you look at the first hour. They generated no extra interest or excitement by their booking of the Rumble PPV. And then if you look at the third hour, it's clear people don't really care that Edge has returned. He couldn't even produce a nostalgia bump. Granted, this is no surprise to those of us who have been watching a long time and know Edge was never a draw aside from the trashiness of the Live Sex Celebration episode. For further context, even Reigns return last year produced a bump of 250k viewers or so. And this is a guy smarks say everyone hates and was only away for 4 months. Edge was away 9 years and produced nothing.

So to sum it up: no post-PPV bump, no bump from Edge's return, and no bump from setting up two Royal Rumble winners from Raw.

Fucking lol.

And you had people on here jumping the gun talking about Drew/Brock main eventing or how Edge/Orton should headline.

This is why I said you don't give the Royal Rumble to Drew and that it was a dumb idea. You cannot rocket push someone in 4 weeks and expect it to make an impact. You have 12 months of the year to build someone up. And they did nothing with him and then tried to strap a rocket to his ass based on 4 weeks of build and mild reactions on Raw. The end result is as expected.


----------



## rbl85

I thought that this show would do way better than that for multiple reasons : Pretty good show, after the Rumble and the return of Edge.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> WWE just need to rewind a bit. Look at the mega ratings they pulled in the weeks after football finished and go back to that formula. Rollins on top with a good supporting cast.
> 
> Send Edge and the old men home. Demote Drew and Lesnar to the Network show where they belong.


So those record low segments he was in as champ just didnt happen eh. Good to know.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This is great.

Anyway, all 3 Raw hours were the most watched hours on all of cable television last night. I have no dog in this fight since Seth isn't Champ or going for the title, but that is Dominance right there.

Also "record lows" that made USA Network the highest rated cable network for all of 2019.


----------



## Mongstyle

Seth Floppins flopped so hard that they literally aborted on him as a top face of Raw and turned him heel. Then they made Brock champ again on Raw and are redoing everything with Drew. And well, do we even need to get into ratings collapsing after WM35 to the point that USA Network panicked and asked for the Wild Card just to get Reigns back on the show? Or how Brock Lesnar suddenly showed up soon after? All because Floppins couldn't actually hold any interest. (Or Becky.)

Positive news for Seth however. It looks like Drew might end up being an even bigger flop than he was as a top face.

And hopefully people can stop overrating Edge now. Dude wasn't even half the star Cena or Batista were in his time. And it's clear he isn't even as big of a name as guys like Reigns or Brock today. 9 years of absence and doesn't even get a nostalgia bump.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

There isn't any singular difference maker WWE has except maybe Cena and sometimes Brock. And The Rock, when they can get him.

Drew is Roman Reigns part II. He needs to develop a personality or he'll be just another in a long line of big dudes Vince tried to put on top. One thing he has going in his favor is that there isn't a Daniel Bryan or a Dean Ambrose popular star that he's being pushed at the expense of, but even then, he's not that exciting.


----------



## MoxAsylum

lol of course the rating is bad when you push a boring wrestler like McIntyre


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> A little bit of a bump, although not much of a bump. Still several 100k down from last year, which itself wasn't considered strong. We may have to face the reality that RTW may not be considered special anymore.


It’s not something that may have to be faced, it’s the new normal. They killed off the RTWM bump last year. Now it’s just like any other part of the year that isn’t the holidays or football season. I was looking back at 2015 and 2016 and both had significant bumps from the go home Rumble show to the night after Rumble show. I’m talking several hundred thousand difference. Now they basically stay flat from one to the other.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number. That said, at the minimum hour 3 actually gained from last week where the other two dropped. Considering the drop for the other two hours it'd be safe to assume hour 3 this week should've been under the 2.1 million mark with nothing special happening. It's a very small thing, but shows Edge had some impact. Albeit not as much as it should have. It's still down from last year. Quarter breakdowns would paint a better picture of how well Edge's return actually did.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Conor McGregor must be having a right laugh at these no draws.


----------



## Prosper

There are so many things that could have played a part. Kobe's death for one is something that's shaking the world at its core. That probably drew away more viewers than any Monday night football game could. All of that TV traffic was probably focused on ESPN or the news stations covering the story. 2.4 is not bad considering that. Not making excuses, just stating the facts. If Edge can't draw in his return, considering that Kobe's death DIDN'T hurt the ratings, which we will probably never know, then it just goes to show again that it doesn't fuckin matter who they push. Things won't change whether your favorites are pushed or not.


----------



## DammitChrist

Are people seriously still pointing the finger on the current talents (including Drew McIntyre and Edge) for the decreasing ratings when it's pretty obvious to ANYBODY ELSE at this point that fans are just not interested in tuning into the shows if they're generally underwhelming? 

Seriously, NOBODY is going to save the low ratings if the company doesn't continue to deliver good shows for Raw and Smackdown on a consistent basis. Pretending like the current talents are responsible for the low ratings is honestly just laughable at this point. The product now as a whole is still lackluster to plenty of fans now as it was several months ago (and even a year ago).



RainmakerV2 said:


> So those record low segments he was in as champ just didnt happen eh. Good to know.


Imagine still blaming the low ratings on Seth Rollins several months later :mj4


----------



## Rozzop

Agree with the above. 

People have given up on wrestling. You think half a million people heard that Edge made his return so would watch Raw the next night? 

They dont care. 

What Raw needs is months of good consistent content which will slowly elevate not only the ratings but the performers themselves.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

DammitChrist said:


> Are people seriously still pointing the finger on the current talents (including Drew McIntyre and Edge) for the decreasing ratings when it's pretty obvious to ANYBODY ELSE at this point that fans are just not interested in tuning into the shows if they're generally underwhelming?
> 
> Seriously, NOBODY is going to save the low ratings if the company doesn't continue to deliver good shows for Raw and Smackdown on a consistent basis. Pretending like the current talents are responsible for the low ratings is honestly just laughable at this point. The product now as a whole is still lackluster to plenty of fans now as it was several months ago (and even a year ago)


It's definitely not any singular talent's fault at this point. They went scorched earth on the entire roster just to make Reigns and Lesnar the only two people who mattered and this is what we're left with.

The issue for me is more that they still haven't gotten the note that character is what matters most and are just going through the motions again with Drew that they did with Reigns and forgot to give him a character. At least they still haven't turned the crowd on Drew (yet), but give it time.

Drew is a marginal improvement over Reigns, although knowing that this is a Heyman program, I expect it to be another Brock-centric feud in order to get Heyman's fantasy over moreso than Drew himself.


----------



## MoxAsylum

InexorableJourney said:


> Conor McGregor must be having a right laugh at these no draws.


Who cares about that douche bag


----------



## .christopher.

Of course the ratings are bad.

They're pushing Drew fucking McIntyre who's the epitome of boredom, and are relying on Edge who, quite frankly, no one in 2020 gives a fuck about.

Edge is an idiot, too. You had a great career. You've got a kid now and, thankfully, got out of the business still being able to walk, so why bloody risk it? Especially when the business is dead anyway. Yeah, you love wrestling, but you can't do it forever. You don't want to end up like Hogan or Foley.


----------



## RapShepard

It's like folk ignore the actual numbers to make there own arguments. All 3 hours in the top 5, but somehow its doom and gloom


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> It's like folk ignore the actual numbers to make there own arguments. All 3 hours in the top 5, but somehow its doom and gloom


Fr

this is a good rating.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> Fr
> 
> this is a good rating.


It's like sheesh what do they need to do ratings wise lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> It's like sheesh what do they need to do ratings wise lol


6+ million ala attitude era 

never happening when we have youtube, wwe network, dvr etc. Stuck in the past obviously.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

The problem is that a lot of you guys are stuck in the past. How many shows on tv nowadays draw 2m viewers. Look at AEW despite the good booking they can’t even draw 1m. Times have changed boys and drawing 2m is excellent. Stop living in the past. You can diss wwe all you want but the reality is raw is USA’s flagship and top rated show. I am sure the suits at USA don’t care what a bunch of marks on the internet think. No show is going to draw 6m views in 2020 unless it’s a special like the nba finals, super bowl or the World Series. Wwe programing are constantly the top rated shows on cable tv and despite the whining here they are not under any threat to get cancelled.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

That Edge and Randy Orton segment actually gave me hope that wrestling can be watchable again, instead of the daily boring vanilla midgets in WWE.


----------



## .christopher.

Weren't they getting around 4 million only a few years ago? They actually kept around 4 million people watching through the decade plus of Cena shit, so to be around 2 million now is quite shit.


----------



## xio8ups

The ratings are even worse when ya push the rollins boy


----------



## Mongstyle

Oof, looking at the quarter hour ratings making this even more laughable. For context, last week for the go home Raw:


> Opened with *2,725,000 viewers* for the in-ring with Seth Rollins, Buddy Murphy, AOP, Kevin Owens Samoa Joe and Viking Raiders.


This week, the night after Raw had two Royal Rumble winners and Edge return:


> Drew McIntyre interview and the McIntyre vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson opened with *2,693,000 viewers*.


To put this into further context, that opening quarter hour is even lower than when Brock just returned for an announcement several weeks ago. That did over 2.7 million.

So basically, not only did Raw open weaker than last week, it also opened weaker than when Brock just returned to stand in the ring and announce whatever his next plans were. And yet people want to argue Drew FlopIntyre is over. They literally just set up Brock's match with him for Mania and immediately there is no interest coming out of the Rumble built around Raw.

On the note of Brock, just so peeps understand he does still bring attention. He produced good quarter hour numbers each of the past many weeks and gains regardless of placement. The only person on Raw who does. Last week for example:


> Paul Heyman and Brock Lesnar promo with Ricochet gained *352,000 viewers.*


And since we're on the subject of quarter hour ratings. Becky Stench and Drew FlopIntyre last week:


> Drew McIntyre vs. Randy Orton *lost 314,000 viewers*,
> Becky Lynch vs. Kairi Sane lost *155,000 viewers.*


Stench wasn't even listed this week because she was barely on.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> Rollins made the USA Network the highest rated network on Cable in 2019. He did that with bad booking.
> 
> Last week with good booking Rollins outdrew Lebron James.
> 
> This week, WWE didn't push Rollins as the focal point of the show, and guess what? They didn't draw.
> 
> Rollins has been carrying the company and USA Network since 2015.


Showstopper, stop.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> How about respond to the points I made.
> 
> I saw Showstopper point out to you that Rollins is the biggest draw in the industry in the other thread. You couldn't respond to him.


I actually did by bringing up the record low segments that he did as champion that you actually didnt respond to, buddy.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins2k20 said:


> You know those record low segments?
> 
> They made USA the highest rated network on cable. And Seth did that with terrible booking.
> 
> Any more questions?



Alright lol. Im not even bored enough at work to continue to take the bait. You win. Rollins is God and makes Rock and Austin looks like box office failures. You got it.


----------



## xio8ups

they only thing rollins can draw is flies on shit


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw's doing the worst ratings it has ever done in the 25+ year history of the show (at this time of the year), and there's marks on this site still trying to say it's good? No, a shitty product continues to lose 20% of it's demo every year. That's bad. There's no sugar coating that.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> This is great.
> 
> Anyway, all 3 Raw hours were the most watched hours on all of cable television last night. I have no dog in this fight since Seth isn't Champ or going for the title, but that is Dominance right there.
> 
> Also "record lows" that made USA Network the highest rated cable network for all of 2019.


USA wasn't the highest rated cable network of 2019. ESPN was first in the adult 18-49 demo. Fox News, ESPN, and MSNBC all with more total viewers than USA.









Cable Ratings 2019: Fox News Tops Total Viewers, ESPN Wins 18-49 Demo As Entertainment Networks Slide


Ad-supported cable business’ fortunes continue to decline unless it’s live programming – news and sports. Cable news networks Fox News and MSNBC and sports-focused ESPN repeated as 1-2-3 atop all b…




deadline.com







> USA, which was the most watched cable network for almost a decade, slipped another spot from No. 4 last year to No. 5 in total viewers (-18%). In adults 18-49, it remained No. 2 behind Fox News but was down 16%.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> USA wasn't the highest rated cable network of 2019. ESPN was first in the adult 18-49 demo. Fox News, ESPN, and MSNBC all with more total viewers than USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cable Ratings 2019: Fox News Tops Total Viewers, ESPN Wins 18-49 Demo As Entertainment Networks Slide
> 
> 
> Ad-supported cable business’ fortunes continue to decline unless it’s live programming – news and sports. Cable news networks Fox News and MSNBC and sports-focused ESPN repeated as 1-2-3 atop all b…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadline.com











USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network


USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.




www.usanetwork.com





Don't take it from me. Take it from Nielsen:



> Big news for *USA Network* as the new decade kicks off: The channel ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo for the third consecutive year, and the P25-54 demo for the second consecutive year!
> 
> Several key series boosted the network to the top spot. *WWE Monday Night Raw* was the #1 Cable Entertainment Program on Mondays, as well as the #1 Most Social Primetime Series in all of television.
> 
> It was an especially standout year for USA’s unscripted series. Looking across the television industry, *Chrisley Knows Best *was the #1 VOD Cable Unscripted Series, and *Straight Up Steve Austin* the #1 New Unscripted Cable Series for Men (18-49, 25-54).
> 
> Additionally on USA, *Temptation Island* sizzled as the network's #1 New Series (Scripted or Unscripted) and *Miz & Mrs* did an absolutely awesome job as its #1 Returning Unscripted series. *Treadstone* crushed as USA's #1 New Drama, while *Queen of the South* was its #1 Returning Drama.
> 
> USA readies itself for another standout year, kicking off with the debut of *The Biggest Loser* on January 28 and the return of _Miz & Mrs_ on January 29. February 6 will see the premiere of Sam Esmail’s *Briarpatch*, as well as a new story of critically-acclaimed thriller *The Sinner*.
> The wins solidified USA as a #1 Network in Prime for 14 consecutive years.
> 
> *Keep your eyes on USANetwork.com for all the latest information, as well as full episodes and exclusive videos.*
> _Source: Cable Entertainment Ranks: Nielsen, 12/31/18-12/29/19_


Straight from Nielsen themselves.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> USA Network is #1 in 2019 | Blog | USA Network
> 
> 
> USA Network ends 2019 as the #1 cable entertainment network in the P18-49 demo and the P25-54 demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usanetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take it from me. Take it from Nielsen:
> 
> 
> 
> Straight from Nielsen themselves.


You have to understand the terminology that USA Network is using from that press release to say that. They said #1 "Cable Entertainment Network". ESPN, Fox News, MSNBC, aren't considered "cable entertainment". ESPN is sports. Fox News/MSNBC are news. All 3 of those channels had far more total viewers than USA did. Even HGTV had more viewers than USA. "Cable Entertainment" would be like TNT, TBS, MTV, channels like that. USA did beat those channels in the demo, but it was pretty close. And claiming Raw is the highest rated "Cable Entertainment" program, well if you limit to what is considered a "cable entertainment program" sure. But, Monday Night Football on ESPN did far better ratings. And far more people (not the 18-49 demo but just total people) watch Fox News on Monday nights than they do Raw. Fox News gets about 3.5 mils viewers a night. That didn't used to be the case, which is why Raw used to boast it was the most watched Cable program period (at least when MNF wasn't on). What shows on TBS, TNT, TC, A&E, MTV, VH1 is Raw really competing against? None of those channels have something live going on other than TNT when they have playoff basketball on (and it does better ratings than Raw). In fact, the only way you could compare it apples to apples if if for instance MTV did a live concert series every Monday night, and you compared it to Raw. I'd wager if MTV was showing a live concert of some famous bands every monday night, they'd probably do really good ratings too. You can see how many viewers have watched live shows like Dancing With the Stars, and American Idol. Their numbers blow Raw out of the water. There's just so few shows like that (which are live, other than sports) to compare them too. So again, to claim Raw is doing great is nonsense. There's a reason USA had more people watching its network than anyone else for over a decade, and now they are 5th. Largely it was due to Raw pulling in monster ratings for them. Since Raw has tanked the last 5 years, USA has also tanked down to 5th. Maybe USA is fine with that? I dont know. As you can see, other than ESPN, most of the demos are down across the basic cable board. The Cable bubble will burst in about 5-10 years, and at that point lot of networks aren't going to have the $$$$ to pay WWE rights fees, or they'll need something far less. Channels like TBS, MTV, VH1 can handle demo drops because they aren't paying huge dollars for their shows. 





> *2019 Basic Cable Rankings, 18-49 Demo*
> 
> 
> RankNetworkTotal Viewers (in millions)% Change1ESPN0.73-5%2USA0.51-16%3TBS0.49-18%4TNT0.49-16%5TLC0.43+12%6Bravo0.43-4%7A&E Network0.42-1%8MTV0.41-13%9Adult Swim0.39-23%10Discovery0.38-14%
> 
> 
> *2019 Basic Cable Rankings, Total Viewers*
> 
> 
> RankNetworkTotal Viewers (in millions)% Change1Fox News2.57+1%2MSNBC1.80-3%3ESPN1.78-3%4HGTV1.32-10%5USA Network1.26-18%6Hallmark1.25+5%7History1.21-3%8TLC1.21+13%9TBS1.18-17%10Discovery1.16-3%11TNT1.12-15%12A&E Network1.09+4%13Investigation Discovery1.01-9%


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> You have to understand the terminology that USA Network is using from that press release to say that. They said #1 "Cable Entertainment Network". ESPN, Fox News, MSNBC, aren't considered "cable entertainment". ESPN is sports. Fox News/MSNBC are news. All 3 of those channels had far more total viewers than USA did. Even HGTV had more viewers than USA. "Cable Entertainment" would be like TNT, TBS, MTV, channels like that. USA did beat those channels in the demo, but it was pretty close. And claiming Raw is the highest rated "Cable Entertainment" program, well if you limit to what is considered a "cable entertainment program" sure. But, Monday Night Football on ESPN did far better ratings. And far more people (not the 18-49 demo but just total people) watch Fox News on Monday nights than they do Raw. Fox News gets about 3.5 mils viewers a night. That didn't used to be the case, which is why Raw used to boast it was the most watched Cable program period (at least when MNF wasn't on). What shows on TBS, TNT, TC, A&E, MTV, VH1 is Raw really competing against? None of those channels have something live going on other than TNT when they have playoff basketball on (and it does better ratings than Raw). In fact, the only way you could compare it apples to apples if if for instance MTV did a live concert series every Monday night, and you compared it to Raw. I'd wager if MTV was showing a live concert of some famous bands every monday night, they'd probably do really good ratings too. You can see how many viewers have watched live shows like Dancing With the Stars, and American Idol. Their numbers blow Raw out of the water. There's just so few shows like that (which are live, other than sports) to compare them too. So again, to claim Raw is doing great is nonsense. There's a reason USA had more people watching its network than anyone else for over a decade, and now they are 5th. Largely it was due to Raw pulling in monster ratings for them. Since Raw has tanked the last 5 years, USA has also tanked down to 5th. Maybe USA is fine with that? I dont know. As you can see, other than ESPN, most of the demos are down across the basic cable board. The Cable bubble will burst in about 5-10 years, and at that point lot of networks aren't going to have the $$$$ to pay WWE rights fees, or they'll need something far less. Channels like TBS, MTV, VH1 can handle demo drops because they aren't paying huge dollars for their shows.


Monday Night Football and FOX News getting great ratings isn't surprising in the least, especially with the current climate in politics these last few years. That's nothing bad on WWE's part at all. That actually makes complete sense. Those two things do better than some Network television shows and channels, nevermind Cable.

The idea that WWE/Raw does horrible today has kind of jumped the shark. If you compare them to what they did 20 years ago, then sure. But you can say that about practically everything outside of the NFL, political stuff, and rare big hits like Game of Thrones, which isn't even around anymore.

As long WWE programming is at or close to the top of that chart every week (which it is), they're right up there with everyother show today they go up against (again, outside of NFL). Being the highest rated in the demo (close or not, who number one is number one) is something you wouldn't think is the case if you read some of the posts on here, but it's the truth and was the case for 2019. The top/near top of that chart every week matters.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Monday Night Football and FOX News getting great ratings isn't surprising in the least, especially with the current climate in politics these last few years. That's nothing bad on WWE's part at all. That actually makes complete sense. Those two things do better than some Network television shows and channels, nevermind Cable.
> 
> The idea that WWE/Raw does horrible today has kind of jumped the shark. If you compare them to what they did 20 years ago, then sure. But you can say that about practically everything outside of the NFL, political stuff, and rare big hits like Game of Thrones, which isn't even around anymore.
> 
> As long WWE programming is at or close to the top of that chart every week (which it is), they're right up there with everyother show today they go up against (again, outside of NFL). Being the highest rated in the demo (close or not, who number one is number one) is something you wouldn't think is the case if you read some of the posts on here, but it's the truth and was the case for 2019. The top/near top of that chart every week matters.


People aren't comparing them to 20 years ago. Compare them to 5 years ago. WWE has lost 40- 50% of its viewers in 5 years. 5 years ago they could do 4+ mils viewers. Now, its 2+ mils. If the NFL for instance lost 50% of it's viewers in a 5 year period, do you think they'd continue to sign monster TV deals? Raw beating whatever syndicated show is on TBS, or TLC, or VH1, or Cartoon Network means nothing. When have they ever lost to those shows? They aren't even comparable. They don't cost the same to produce. They aren't the same format. 

That's why the only apples to apples comparison that can be done on Raw is simply comparing Raw to it's past. And Raw is doing worse than it ever has. Again, if you consider Raw a sport with rights fees (like any sport such as NBA basketball, NFL, college football etc), if other sports had 50% rating declines they'd be in trouble with their networks regardless if they were still the most watched show compared to other shows that have nothing in common with what they do.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> People aren't comparing them to 20 years ago. Compare them to 5 years ago. WWE has lost 40- 50% of its viewers in 5 years. 5 years ago they could do 4+ mils viewers. Now, its 2+ mils. If the NFL for instance lost 50% of it's viewers in a 5 year period, do you think they'd continue to sign monster TV deals? Raw beating whatever syndicated show is on TBS, or TLC, or VH1, or Cartoon Network means nothing. When have they ever lost to those shows? They aren't even comparable. They don't cost the same to produce. They aren't the same format.
> 
> That's why the only apples to apples comparison that can be done on Raw is simply comparing Raw to it's past. And Raw is doing worse than it ever has. Again, if you consider Raw a sport with rights fees (like any sport such as NBA basketball, NFL, college football etc), if other sports had 50% rating declines they'd be in trouble with their networks regardless if they were still the most watched show compared to other shows that have nothing in common with what they do.


Raw does just as good as anything on Cable these days, that's what you're not getting. Every single week they are near or AT the top of the chart. This past week for example, all three hours were the top 3 hours on cable Monday night. SD's ratings just came out, and they did the same number that SD did last night...on NETWORK television.

*Until they are in the middle of the chart, or the bottom of the chart, they will continue to get big TV deals. That's what some are not getting, and I used to be one of them. It's been this way for years now. This is why WWE continues to get huge TV deals and will continue to, until they are no longer at the top or near the top of the chart every single week.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Rollins2k20 said:


> This is what people are missing.
> 
> It is clear that Rollins has been the hottest thing on cable in the past month. FOX must wish they had him on their network.


I'm glad you really, really think so.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All 3 hours of Raw on top of the chart again this week:


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.318M [10th] | 0.720D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.164M [12th] | 0.660D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.022M [13th] | 0.630D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.168M | 0.670D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.154M | - 6.64% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 8.33% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.142M | - 6.56% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.55% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.296M | - 12.77% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.234M | - 9.74% ]
[ - 0.093D | - 12.19% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.342M | - 13.63% ]
[ - 0.163D | - 19.57% ]*


----------



## Ace

Universally Raw is considered better, the problem is Heyman is pushing as bunch of new guys and geeks people don't buy.


----------



## Mongstyle

Lol at trying to pretend this garbage number is good.

They were literally doing better numbers heading into Royal Rumble than they are coming out of it. For how shit 2019 was for ratings, even this didn't happen last year during Mania season. This is a clear sign that Drew is a flop and the Edge/Orton angle was a stupid move. Neither of those things has generated interest. No one gives a shit about these angles. I can't believe they wasted the Royal Rumble in such a boneheaded way.

They should've done Edge/Rollins so it was something new and Brock should've had to fend off multiple contenders. Make it chaotic and build the angle around a few guys having it out for Brock, and Brock having to survive them. Not the same old shit of "I'm going to be the one to take down Brock Lesnar" when it's already been done last year, and was a complete flop.

It's crazy how Raw just remains the same old shit.


----------



## RapShepard

Rollins2k20 said:


> They should have called Gargano up to face Rollins for the belt. Gargano should have won the rumble.
> 
> Rollins should still be a champion. Just as a heel.
> 
> They would be pushing the 3 million mark had they done just that imo.


What is this opinion based on


----------



## RapShepard

Mongstyle said:


> Lol at trying to pretend this garbage number is good.
> 
> They were literally doing better numbers heading into Royal Rumble than they are coming out of it. For how shit 2019 was for ratings, even this didn't happen last year during Mania season. This is a clear sign that Drew is a flop and the Edge/Orton angle was a stupid move. Neither of those things has generated interest. No one gives a shit about these angles. I can't believe they wasted the Royal Rumble in such a boneheaded way.
> 
> They should've done Edge/Rollins so it was something new and Brock should've had to fend off multiple contenders. Make it chaotic and build the angle around a few guys having it out for Brock, and Brock having to survive them. Not the same old shit of "I'm going to be the one to take down Brock Lesnar" when it's already been done last year, and was a complete flop.
> 
> It's crazy how Raw just remains the same old shit.


They had the top 3 hours on cable what more do you want lol


----------



## RapShepard

Rollins2k20 said:


> Seth was drawing great numbers before the Rumble. The best numbers they had seen in months.
> 
> He just needed a great babyface to work with. Gargano would have been perfect.
> 
> Drew, Edge, Orton, Lesnar? Give me a break,


And you think Gargano who's only known to a small portion of the audience was going to help bring in 500k people with no prior exposure?


----------



## Illogical

Rollins2k20 said:


> They should have called Gargano up to face Rollins for the belt. Gargano should have won the rumble.
> 
> Rollins should still be a champion. Just as a heel.
> 
> They would be pushing the 3 million mark had they done just that imo.


I'd question a month long build of Punk vs. Austin doing 3 million but yeah, let's just have this tiny dude that nobody knows come in and face Rollins.

I like Gargano but really if you don't watch NXT you don't know who the guy is so where are one million people who don't watch coming from?


----------



## Wrestlefire

They really just need to follow up on naming NXT the Dominant Brand.


----------



## Mongstyle

This makes me curious what USA Network will be asking come Mania time.

Last year Seth and Becky flopped so badly coming out of Mania, USA Network had them implement the Wild Card out of nowhere. If these terrible numbers are what they're doing heading into Mania, they're likely going below 2 million soon after Mania itself.

If Raw continues flopping, I imagine we'll end up with the brand split dead again at some point in the future. This reminds me of why it died the first time after Batista was gone, and guys like Edge, Orton etc. obviously weren't capable of carrying on Smackdown and it just ended up dying a long and slow death. Except this time, it's gonna end up being the show that was the flagship for decades that's the cause of it. Granted Raw is the B show now, but an entire history of being the flagship show is behind it.


----------



## Wrestlefire

They really just need to follow up on naming NXT the Dominant Brand.


----------



## Erik.

Wow, that's shit.


----------



## llj

It's a bad number. There's no spinning it.


----------



## Cosmo77

maybe monday night is not thre best night for Raw.


----------



## Erramayhem89

RapShepard said:


> They had the top 3 hours on cable what more do you want lol


That's not hard when everything else on TV is even worse than wrestling


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes. This is what happens to your ratings when 90 (if not more) percent of your roster is full of charisma vacuum vanilla midgets. Imagine picking a geek like Ricochet over Bobby Lashley to battle Brock Lesnar for WWE Champion and thinking anyone is going to take that shit serious.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Last week was pretty good with a hot open and a great start. We saw a big decline in quality. Little Ric facing Brock at Blood Oil too. I resubscribed for the Rumble but after the free month I am back out.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Og course the rating scare bad. Nobody wants to watch geeks like Rollins, McIntyre, Ricochet, Buddy Murphy, etc. Only good thing going for RAW is Edge and Orton


----------



## Randy Lahey

Just beating whatever is on Bravo, VH1, the History Channel, MTV etc...ain't good enough when you are losing 20% of your audience ever year, and USA is paying you 500 million dollars. I've never heard of the show Below Deck, I couldn't find the Bravo channel if you asked me, but WWE barely beating them is not a "win". Fewer people are watching Raw than ever before, and you can basically say that every year. And they are on TV, on a Monday night, when nothing else is on and nobody is going out.

If you put Raw on Friday nights, it'd probably do 1.5 mils


----------



## InexorableJourney

Last year Feb 4 2019 had an 18-49 rating of 0.9, 0.9, 0.8 for the 3 respective hours.
-With all the shows just below pulling in 0.6's

This years episode had 0.72, 0.66 0.63.
-With the 2 shows immediately below pulling in 0.62 and 0.6

One more year of this and RAW could be lucky to stay in the Top 10 shows altogether.


----------



## Not Lying

Mongstyle said:


> This makes me curious what USA Network will be asking come Mania time.
> 
> Last year Seth and Becky flopped so badly coming out of Mania, USA Network had them implement the Wild Card out of nowhere. If these terrible numbers are what they're doing heading into Mania, they're likely going below 2 million soon after Mania itself.
> 
> If Raw continues flopping, I imagine we'll end up with the brand split dead again at some point in the future. *This reminds me of why it died the first time after Batista was gone, and guys like Edge, Orton etc. obviously weren't capable of carrying on Smackdown* and it just ended up dying a long and slow death. Except this time, it's gonna end up being the show that was the flagship for decades that's the cause of it. Granted Raw is the B show now, but an entire history of being the flagship show is behind it.


When the hell did that happen?

SD started dying around 2012 between Bryan/Sheamus title reign (not blaming them, they were rookies at the time).


----------



## Wrestlefire

Uchiha Ghost said:


> Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes. This is what happens to your ratings when 90 (if not more) percent of your roster is full of charisma vacuum vanilla midgets. Imagine picking a geek like Ricochet over Bobby Lashley to battle Brock Lesnar for WWE Champion and thinking anyone is going to take that shit serious.


The problem is they are taking way too many people just to lock them out of AEW, New Japan, ROH, NWA, Impact, etc.

WWE has needed a massive talent purge for a LONG TIME.


----------



## ClintDagger

That’s a bad number in the grand scheme of things. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that some people here will never understand the business side of the numbers. Being top 3 in the night in the demo is meaningless with the cross section of the demo WWE pulls in. That’s why they will never have the holy grail type of advertisers. There’s a reason USA is complaining to WWE and pitching ideas to boost the rating. They aren’t happy. They aren’t getting what they paid for. There’s a reason WWE fired it’s co-presidents and booted them off the board. It’s not about the last, it’s about the next. And WWE is on a road where their next round of tv deals will be a fraction of the last one and that’s not going to cut it.


----------



## Zappers

Charlotte facing Rhea from NXT isn't doing the numbers any favor. It's the main roster, pick the title from RAW/SD. Picking NXT is insulting to the entire main roster. Basically saying , they don't matter. What they should have done was for Ruby to feud with Charlotte on her comeback. Not Liv. Right the wrong from a couple years ago. The initial Ruby vs Charlotte they just dropped that like after two weeks. It was a perfect contrast of two people.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Zappers said:


> Charlotte facing Rhea from NXT isn't doing the numbers any favor. It's the main roster, pick the title from RAW/SD. Picking NXT is insulting to the entire main roster. Basically saying , they don't matter. What they should have done was for Ruby to feud with Charlotte on her comeback. Not Liv. Right the wrong from a couple years ago. The initial Ruby vs Charlotte they just dropped that like after two weeks. It was a perfect contrast of two people.


They had to pick NXT as it’s struggling with ratings on Wednesday.


----------



## llj

Zappers said:


> Charlotte facing Rhea from NXT isn't doing the numbers any favor. It's the main roster, pick the title from RAW/SD. Picking NXT is insulting to the entire main roster. Basically saying , they don't matter. What they should have done was for Ruby to feud with Charlotte on her comeback. Not Liv. Right the wrong from a couple years ago. The initial Ruby vs Charlotte they just dropped that like after two weeks. It was a perfect contrast of two people.


WWE often makes decisions based on business, not creativity or logic. When you look at how NXT struggles on Wednesdays, then you will understand.


----------



## xio8ups

LOL WWE STOCK TOOK A BIG SHIT LOL


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Black is getting some of the lowest viewed segments on RAW. Guy is only just getting over but barely, seems people don't wanna see his squashes anymore.


----------



## xio8ups

who ?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

> From WOR: RAW was the lowest rated episode, with no real competition ever. Segments like Aleister Black’s and the main event were significant drops. Meanwhile Charlotte/Rhea was one of the few positives of the show


They should've done a better job building the Triple Threat main event. An in ring segment in Hour 1 would've been good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All three hours were the three most watched hours on Cable last night. Hour 3 way above 2.0 million. Kept the audience they had from hour 1 to a strong degree, too. Kind of surprised a meaningless 8 man tag held the audience at 2.2 million when Hour 1 did 2.4 and Hour 2 did 2.3. I guess people were interested in that 8 man tag.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.396M [9th] | 0.810D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 2.411M [8th] | 0.810D [1st]
V3 | D3: 2.204M [10th] | 0.770D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.337M | 0.797D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.015M | + 0.63% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.207M | - 8.59% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 4.94% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.192M | - 8.01% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 4.94% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.169M | + 7.80% ]
[ + 0.127D | + 18.96% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.125M | - 5.08% ]
[ - 0.041D | - 4.89% ]*


----------



## Ace

Damn, that's a pretty dire number on the RTWM.

Pretty sure they were doing better on the lead up to the Royal Rumble.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

*XFL Week 1 Games Ratings Exceed Average NBA Ratings*









XFL Week 1 Games Ratings Exceed Average NBA Ratings


Statstics on the XFL Week 1 Games Ratings compared to the NBA and the AAF, with some numbers on the betting scores and what it means.




www.ewrestlingnews.com





Shit, move RAW to Tuesday and let's have XFL Monday Night Football!


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Damn, that's a pretty dire number on the RTWM.
> 
> Pretty sure they were doing better on the lead up to the Royal Rumble.


Down 5% from what was a horrid post RR ratings run last year. Not good that they can’t even beat last year’s disaster.


----------



## llj

The real damage was done last year, and they haven't recovered. From doing well over 3 million every week in 2018 to kerplunking almost a million regular viewers in 2019. Now it's just them limping along into gradual obscurity.


----------



## validreasoning

ClintDagger said:


> Down 5% from what was a horrid post RR ratings run last year. Not good that they can’t even beat last year’s disaster.


Last year had Rousey and Lynch as main storyline, Batista's return vs HHH, Brock vs Rollins and Reigns return from cancer so raw on paper should be far far hotter than.

This year has perennial midcard Drew McIntyre v Brock and Charlotte/Becky vs developmental talent as your top raw programs. Based on that down just 5% is massive success especially given no show on cable is up from where they were last year


----------



## Mongstyle

Another bad number. This is the second year in a row where there is no Mania season bump, and this is now the first time ever where Raw ratings post-Royal Rumble are worse than the lead up to the Royal Rumble. Last year, Raw bounced back after this thanks to Reigns return from cancer, so the drop compared to last year will be even more pronounced in the coming weeks.

It may be time for them to bring Triple H back at least and get some kind of big feud started for him. Raw has no stars outside of Brock, and he's stuck in a feud with a nobody at the moment.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Showstopper said:


> All three hours were the three most watched hours on Cable last night. Hour 3 way above 2.0 million. Kept the audience they had from hour 1 to a strong degree, too. Kind of surprised a meaningless 8 man tag held the audience at 2.2 million when Hour 1 did 2.4 and Hour 2 did 2.3. I guess people were interested in that 8 man tag.


Fantastic to see.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Spinning these numbers as strong is sad. The only positive is that hour 2 saw a slight viewership increase (and flat on demo).


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Man I figured atleast 200k more. Numbers are usually inflated between the Rumble and Mania.


----------



## Randy Lahey

They are doing MNF numbers on RTWM lmao...


----------



## Peachfreeze

llj said:


> The real damage was done last year, and they haven't recovered. From doing well over 3 million every week in 2018 to kerplunking almost a million regular viewers in 2019. Now it's just them limping along into gradual obscurity.


They haven't even recovered from the last Nitro in 2001 and have been sinking into obscurity since.



The Boy Wonder said:


> Shit, move RAW to Tuesday and let's have XFL Monday Night Football!


I've been wondering, and perhaps I'm just being silly, that VKM sees the writing on the wall and has moved onto XFL because he thinks it'll outlast the WWE?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The viewers are only 5% down from this time last year so not too bad overall. RAW has been solid for months now and a great watch.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All 3 hours the most viewed hours on all of Cable TV on Monday night. Amazing.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

By all accounts the show has been better for a while now, hopefully viewership can improve steadily and they continue to go down a more adult orientated path. Their average viewer is about 50 years old, there's no need to aim for the kids.


----------



## .christopher.

People defending those numbers lol.

They're close to 1million during wrestlemania season. Only a few years ago they were around 5 million, right? The ship is well and truly sinking.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> All 3 hours the most viewed hours on all of Cable TV on Monday night. Amazing.


4+ million people watched Fox News Monday. Stop lying about Raw being the most watched Cable show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> 4+ million people watched Fox News Monday. Stop lying about Raw being the most watched Cable show.


No one's lying. Check the chart. All three hours are at the very top of the chart. Demo or not, Nielsen put all 3 hours at the top.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Showstopper said:


> No one's lying. Check the chart. All three hours are at the very top of the chart. Demo or not, Nielsen put all 3 hours at the top.


They rank by demo, not total viewers. It isnt an AEW faithful thing to say demo is all that matters, that is truly how it is. So Raw has the highest demo on Monday nights every week thus they are the best show on Monday nights except for about 16 NFL nights and the occasional sports special (NBA Finals/March Madness/College Football).

The demo really is all that truly matters.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.christopher. said:


> People defending those numbers lol.
> 
> They're close to 1million during wrestlemania season. Only a few years ago they were around 5 million, right? The ship is well and truly sinking.


Come on man, the way people view television changes daily and more rapidly than anytime since the beginning of cable way back in the last century.

It is silly to think AEW isn't drawing as much as peak TNA was and its silly to think WWE is in the toilet when they are bringing in $500 million in rights fees a year. So tired of hearing both of these arguments. So cliche


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TKO Wrestling said:


> They rank by demo, not total viewers. It isnt an AEW faithful thing to say demo is all that matters, that is truly how it is. So Raw has the highest demo on Monday nights every week thus they are the best show on Monday nights except for about 16 NFL nights and the occasional sports special (NBA Finals/March Madness/College Football).
> 
> The demo really is all that truly matters.


Spot on.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ratings...


----------



## ClintDagger

Raw’s (WWE in general) granular demo is awful. That’s why they have very few suitors despite the volume.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.671M [4th] | 0.870D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.559M [7th] | 0.820D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.082M [11th] | 0.680D [4th]

3V | 3D: 2.437M | 0.790D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.112M | - 7.65% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 5.75% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.477M | - 18.64% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 17.07% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.589M | - 22.05% ]
[ - 0.190D | - 21.84% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.100M | + 4.28% ]
[ - 0.007D | - 0.88% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.334M | - 12.05% ]
[ - 0.173D | - 17.96% ]*


----------



## llj

LMAO oh so close...that 3rd hour was basically the regression to the mean. If they had held on at 2.2 or 2.3 in hour 3 they might have hit 2.5 overall. It amuses me that the TV world denied them that number and dragged them all the way back closer down to their usual averages lately.


----------



## Interceptor88

People complaining about old wrestlers being useless every single week while MVP and Matt Hardy draw more than Ricochet, Kevin Owens and Aleister Black. I love it. 
(I'm not that stupid; making a couple of wrestlers entirebly responsible for a somewhat decent number is not accurate, and third hour always loses viewers. But still)


----------



## xio8ups

0.79 lol they use to get over 2 lolololol


----------



## Randy Lahey

18% drop over last year. That bleed is here to stay. There’s not a bottom. Fewer and fewer people will watch the show, their demos will get worse since most of their viewers are over 50. 


But watch Showstopper claim these ratings are “amazing” that they can beat whatever taped low budget show is on TLC, History, Bravo.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

3rd hour is a significant drop. WOW.


----------



## ClintDagger

They’ve got about a quarter of their audience that is clearly drifting away. As someone said above, there is no floor. They will quite possibly be averaging sub 2.0s within 12 months.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

Legends draw, while the vanilla midgets lose ratings.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Highest Raw rating of the year. Not even a go-home or Raw the night after a PPV. Stay mad, Randeeee.


----------



## fabi1982

ClintDagger said:


> They’ve got about a quarter of their audience that is clearly drifting away. As someone said above, there is no floor. They will quite possibly be averaging sub 2.0s within 12 months.


Feels like this is what people saying for the last 2 years. Still looking out for a constant sub 2.0..Maybe the next 12 month will do the trick...

Consistant show deserves consistant raiting, well deserved.


----------



## Randy Lahey

fabi1982 said:


> Feels like this is what people saying for the last 2 years. Still looking out for a constant sub 2.0..Maybe the next 12 month will do the trick...
> 
> Consistant show deserves consistant raiting, well deserved.


2018 they averaged 2,829,940 viewers
2019 they averaged 2,416,650
2020 they averaging 2,284,500. (and this number is skewed up since this is only averaging their most viewed part of the season (no football to compete against, and RTWM).

Just 2 years ago in 2018, they averaged 3.1 mil viewers for the month of Feb. 2020 they are averaging 2.3 mils.

And people want to celebrate this ratings? Seriously? Yeah, TV viewing habits have sure changed in 2 years...lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

Showstopper said:


> Highest Raw rating of the year. Not even a go-home or Raw the night after a PPV. Stay mad, Randeeee.


This is what's funny. The rating is higher than they got the night before and after Royal Rumble. Yet everyone here is still saying how terrible it is. It can't be that terrible if its consistently the most watch show Monday night except when NFL or a massive basketball game is on. If there was no Hr 3, the avg rating will be much better.

Then if you go to AEW section, the same people will be proclaiming 800k-900k stagnant ratings a massive success. WWE can't win with internet fans.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Randy Lahey said:


> 2018 they averaged 2,829,940 viewers
> 2019 they averaged 2,416,650
> 2020 they averaging 2,284,500. (and this number is skewed up since this is only averaging their most viewed part of the season (no football to compete against, and RTWM).
> 
> Just 2 years ago in 2018, they averaged 3.1 mil viewers for the month of Feb. 2020 they are averaging 2.3 mils.
> 
> And people want to celebrate this ratings? Seriously? Yeah, TV viewing habits have sure changed in 2 years...lol


Well the landscape has changed and all the other shows are also down. WWE is beating most NBA games on Monday nights and that's the 2nd most popular sport in the country.

The ratings will keep going down and yes eventually under 2m, but most likely other shows will be doing the same. They had an unusually large drop between 2018-2019 though i admit.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dark Emperor said:


> Well the landscape has changed and all the other shows are also down. WWE is beating most NBA games on Monday nights and that's the 2nd most popular sport in the country.
> 
> The ratings will keep going down and yes eventually under 2m, but most likely other shows will be doing the same. They had an unusually large drop between 2018-2019 though i admit.


Yes, the rating will continue to go down and eventually it becomes counter productive for USA to pay WWE 500mils a year to barely beat whatever low budget taped show is on other basic cable channels.

If the NFL or NBA (or any sport) had lost 30% of their viewing audience in a 2 year period, you don't think their networks would be really upset? What people like Showstopper like to argue is that "ratings have been going down since 2000". That's true. But, it doesn't tell the real story. Ratings drops have accelerated in the last 5 years. Accelerated. The Raw rating was fairly consistent between 2003 and 2015.

Lets just compare February 2015, to February 2020. Only 5 year difference.









Raw loses viewers this week


Despite Triple H teasing a big announcement, viewers were down for "Monday Night Raw" this week. Still, WWE has to be relatively happy with the ratings.




www.cagesideseats.com





5 years ago Raw did 4.46, 4.4, 4.00 for those 3 hours. Raw's lost nearly 50% of its viewers in the last 5 years. 50%! If any other sport had done this, there'd be serious issues between those sports and their networks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dark Emperor said:


> This is what's funny. The rating is higher than they got the night before and after Royal Rumble. Yet everyone here is still saying how terrible it is. It can't be that terrible if its consistently the most watch show Monday night except when NFL or a massive basketball game is on. If there was no Hr 3, the avg rating will be much better.
> 
> Then if you go to AEW section, the same people will be proclaiming 800k-900k stagnant ratings a massive success. WWE can't win with internet fans.


Exactly. The third hour of Raw STILL more than doubles AEW's overall rating, LOL. Think about that for a second.

This is part of the reason why barely anyone posts here anymore. Lots of people angry and frustrated with their lives and taking it out on here. Sorry. I'm not depressed like most folks here, so I'm on another forum now and loving it.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes, the rating will continue to go down and eventually it becomes counter productive for USA to pay WWE 500mils a year to barely beat whatever low budget taped show is on other basic cable channels.
> 
> If the NFL or NBA (or any sport) had lost 30% of their viewing audience in a 2 year period, you don't think their networks would be really upset? What people like Showstopper like to argue is that "ratings have been going down since 2000". That's true. But, it doesn't tell the real story. Ratings drops have accelerated in the last 5 years. Accelerated. The Raw rating was fairly consistent between 2003 and 2015.
> 
> Lets just compare February 2015, to February 2020. Only 5 year difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raw loses viewers this week
> 
> 
> Despite Triple H teasing a big announcement, viewers were down for "Monday Night Raw" this week. Still, WWE has to be relatively happy with the ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cagesideseats.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 years ago Raw did 4.46, 4.4, 4.00 for those 3 hours. Raw's lost nearly 50% of its viewers in the last 5 years. 50%! If any other sport had done this, there'd be serious issues between those sports and their networks.


Fair enough but the thing is WWE isn't a sport. Therefore it's not must see live especially with all the adverts. So people tend to catch the shows whenever they have spare time. So they are more likely to suffer big drops in viewership in a declining TV viewership market. It will be interesting to compare the drop to other non sport shows on cable 5 years ago.

Less than 2years ago, FOX and USA agreed massive deals whilst this significant drop in viewership was happening. So you cant say for sure where this is all going. 

Either way, there is a highly competitive streaming platform market right now with Apple, Disney, Netflix & Amazon. All of which will be looking for ways to differentiate from market and WWe would be valuable. So WWE will have that option if they cant get good fees from traditional TV. 

I think the higher ups are preparing for this and they may slowly phase out the content of the WWE network slowly over the coming years. They wont ge going anywhere anytime soon...


----------



## llj

Funny thing is the WWE and WWE fans are actually the only people who spin these lower numbers they get year over year as good. While mainstream publications, when they write about the WWE, like Variety and CNN, generally state that WWE TV ratings the last 2 years are disappointing, and that the Smackdown move to Fox has not garnered the numbers that were hoped for.


----------



## fabi1982

Randy Lahey said:


> 2018 they averaged 2,829,940 viewers
> 2019 they averaged 2,416,650
> 2020 they averaging 2,284,500. (and this number is skewed up since this is only averaging their most viewed part of the season (no football to compete against, and RTWM).
> 
> Just 2 years ago in 2018, they averaged 3.1 mil viewers for the month of Feb. 2020 they are averaging 2.3 mils.
> 
> And people want to celebrate this ratings? Seriously? Yeah, TV viewing habits have sure changed in 2 years...lol


Because they are dominating the demo and only have NFL which is superior. It is as easy as that. Monday night is won by WWE each week, so yeah they are successful. Just see how the NFL is loosing viewership year over year and no one says they are done by 2040...


----------



## Randy Lahey

llj said:


> Funny thing is the WWE and WWE fans are actually the only people who spin these lower numbers they get year over year as good. While mainstream publications, when they write about the WWE, like Variety and CNN, generally state that WWE TV ratings the last 2 years are disappointing, and that the Smackdown move to Fox has not garnered the numbers that were hoped for.


That sentiment is also reflected in their stock price. I'm certain if their ratings were better, their stock price would be higher because there'd be a future expectation of big $$$$ TV deals continuing to come WWE's way. Right now, there can't be.


----------



## Randy Lahey

fabi1982 said:


> Because they are dominating the demo and only have NFL which is superior. It is as easy as that. Monday night is won by WWE each week, so yeah they are successful. Just see how the NFL is loosing viewership year over year and no one says they are done by 2040...


The NFL hasn't lost 50% of their viewers over the last 5 years. WWE has.


----------



## fabi1982

Randy Lahey said:


> The NFL hasn't lost 50% of their viewers over the last 5 years. WWE has.


And what about my demo argument? Because as far as I remember that is the important one. So you say they should just go and fold, because they lose viewers although USA is very happy (look at their new years message) and they just started the 5 year deal worth a billion?


----------



## rexmundi

Dropping 12.1% in total viewers and 18% in the demo in just one year is not a good look., especially since last year's Road to Wrestlemania was so lowly rated. Hour 3 was a big anchor this week, Not so coincidentally as noted from the Observer .*RAW lost 19% of viewers at the start of Seth Rollin’s segment for hour three*. YIKES!!!! Mr. Hour 3 strikes again.* Mr. Hour 3 THEN, NOW, FOREVER*.


----------



## DammitChrist

rexmundi said:


> Dropping 12.1% in total viewers and 18% in the demo in just one year is not a good look., especially since last year's Road to Wrestlemania was so lowly rated. Hour 3 was a big anchor this week, Not so coincidentally as noted from the Observer .*RAW lost 19% of viewers at the start of Seth Rollin’s segment for hour three*. YIKES!!!! Mr. Hour 3 strikes again.* Mr. Hour 3 THEN, NOW, FOREVER*.


Is that supposed to be funny or clever? It's really not honestly since this is basically just you using your hatred for Seth Rollins to twist your false narrative that he's somehow responsible for the lost audience because the third hour just happened to be low.

It's pathetic that some folks are still blaming (any of) the current talents for the low ratings in 2020, ESPECIALLY when Raw has actually made more of an effort lately to build multiple storylines throughout the show and feature/push newer talents over the past couple of months; but yet the overall ratings are STILL unimpressive despite the better quality.

It's almost like WWE needs to write good shows for a better product on a consistent basis (which will most likely take at least several months of better booking in the long-term) in order to win over and/or win back the faith of their audience.


----------



## Fearless Viper

"WWE is dying..."


----------



## xio8ups

But but the demo rating 0.4 lol mostly 50+ year olds. As they get older most will stop watching sooner then later


----------



## Lethal Evans

Dark Emperor said:


> This is what's funny. The rating is higher than they got the night before and after Royal Rumble. Yet everyone here is still saying how terrible it is. It can't be that terrible if its consistently the most watch show Monday night except when NFL or a massive basketball game is on. If there was no Hr 3, the avg rating will be much better.
> 
> Then if you go to AEW section, the same people will be proclaiming 800k-900k stagnant ratings a massive success. WWE can't win with internet fans.


800-900k for something less than 6 months old is hardly stagnant, it's great consistency considering TNT wanted 500-600k.

Wrestling isn't as popular nowadays but the drops in Raw have been alarming but now they're making bank with Saudi, their TV rating drops aren't too bad - because as you said, it's the most consistently watched show on a Monday night. I doubt Raw any time soon drops consistently below 2m.

But dishing on AEWs ratings as 'stagnant' is just silly, especially when comparing to Raw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232415494516273152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232415907663601664
All three hours of Raw have been the most viewed hours of Cable in the all important 18-49 demo for like the last month straight. Pretty crazy.


----------



## llj

Seems like there's no Mania bump though. Yeah they don't have MNF hogging the top demo ratings but the actual numbers seems to be the same as or worse than what they were doing during MNF 3-4 months ago.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> "WWE is dying..."


I know, Right. As all 3 hours of Raw in the 18-49 demo beats everything else on Cable for the past month. :lol Trolls gotta be mad as hell these days.


----------



## Mongstyle

I have to admit it's hilarious seeing Showstopper spin these numbers. This is the same dude who would bag on Raw ratings through 2015-2018 when they were immensely better than this (and still in the same positions in the key demo by the way). Yet apparently they were bad then.

They've lost 950k viewers and 0.45 in the key demo compared to 2 years ago. In 2018, they were up above 2017 for the Road to Wrestlemania in all metrics of the business. The decline since late 2018 and coming out of WM35 with Raw being built around Seth Floppins and Becky Stench is not normal. It's unprecedented and has fucked WWE over very badly both in terms of ratings and attendace.

It's almost like when Seth Floppins flopped so badly, some spin had to be done.


----------



## llj

To be fair to Seth, he's clearly not "The Guy" anymore, and probably not even "The Guy" on RAW anymore, going by both his booking and the way his segments are promoted. And he hasn't been booked like "The Guy" since he dropped the title to Fiend 4-5 months ago. He won't be in a big match at Mania. So blaming him for the current ratings doesn't fly.

That gigantic 3rd hour drop last week during his promo was very bad though.

It seems like they've settled on Orton as the top featured male currently.


----------



## The XL 2

2.2 is shit. Raw is dead.


----------



## Seafort

The question will be in four years....if not already purchased by Disney...will Disney or Amazon pay WWE $500M for the rights to move RAW to ESPN+, HULU, or Amazon Prime? Can’t see USA Network even existing as a cable entity in ten years, let alone continuing to pay that level of money.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

They've been dropping for years and every year it's always "unbelievably" bad. 2013 was in mid-high 4 millions with a couple shows getting over 5 million around this time. 2014 getting mid 4 millions. 2015 they were getting around 4 million a week. 2016 was down to mid 3 millions. 2017 down to low 3 millions. 2018 held around the same but still down over 20% from 2015. 2019 continued the decline and was in the mid-high 2 millions. Now in 2020 we're in the low-mid 2 millions.

If you want to go back further, 2011 was in the 5-5 and a half million range. 2012 actually seemed to be a big drop down to mid 4 millions and that was when Rock/Cena (which headlined the biggest drawing Mania) happened.

I didn't actually average things out and only putting these out based off eyeing numbers, but it looks like things were steady in the 4 1/2 million range between 2012-2014. They then had a few half million viewer drops between 2015-2017 - 2018 held steady and then 2019 things continued going down on on pace with what was happening for most of the years prior.

Of course there is the factor to consider that 2011 and 2012 were two hour shows. The fact 2013 and 2014 held up as well as they did at 3 hours is interesting. 2015 post Mania did 5.3 million viewers. 2016 was at 4.1 million (down 1.2 million). 2017 was 3.7 million (400k down). 2018 at 3.921 (up 200k). 2019 at 2.9 million (down 1 million).

This decline really started with Roman's push from 2015-2017. Seemed to stop bleeding in 2018. 2019 Seth's push continued the decline. 2020 now we have Drew as the main guy to face Lesnar and numbers still go down. Also Orton's feud with Edge should be helping things since it's being positioned as the main storyline, but either due to Edge not being there or just general lack of interest, it's not quelled the decline. We'll have to see what happens when Edge returns.

Ultimately the damage is done. Only guy that could've at one point MAYBE (and it's a big maybe because I'm not really sure) gotten things going in a different direction would've been Strowman. The actual "talent" of him as a wrestler/mic worker is questionable, no doubt. For a while though, starting in late 2016, going into the Roman feud, during the Roman feud, and up until the end of the Lesnar feud, Strowman felt like he was unstoppable. Heck, viewership for leading up to his match with Lesnar seemed to increase from the prior year (although admittedly 2017 No Mercy was stacked as it also had Cena/Reigns where 2016's September PPV "co-main event" was Rusev/Reigns). However at this point, Strowman's image is too damaged I think to ever really have a shot at that again. He'll probably get a world title at some point. Numbers will keep going down. Then we'll be blaming Strowman when he fails to draw.

No one's going to draw. Of course as some will point out, they've topped demos for years and consistently do so when NFL isn't on, so maybe it doesn't matter. The only guy Vince put in a position to be a draw is Reigns. Everyone else (including Rollins/McIntyre) has gone through some period where they were booked less than stellar and ultimately had their image damaged to some degree. Maybe Keith Lee if they book him consistently strong throughout his main roster run will have a shot? Guess we'll see.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper trying to claim beating whatever is on VH1 and Bravo is “amazing” never gets old lol. 

You have Raw doing less viewers now than during MNF, in what should be their most viewed time of year with no competition, and they draw 2.2 mils ?

USA isn’t paying them $500 million a year to barely beat whatever is on Bravo, VH1, Discovery. They are paying them $500 mils to bring in monster ratings, and WWE isn’t doing monster ratings. They are doing the worst ratings they’ve ever done with a quickly aging demo.


----------



## Erramayhem89

Fearless Viper said:


> "WWE is dying..."


It will be sold or cease to exist in 5-7 years. Wrestling isn't cool anymore and they can't build any new stars. It can't sustain itself another decade.


----------



## DaSlacker

Erramayhem89 said:


> It will be sold or cease to exist in 5-7 years. Wrestling isn't cool anymore and they can't build any new stars. It can't sustain itself another decade.


If it was just ratings, then it could be partly explained as cord cutting and television being a declining medium. But it isn't. Total attendance in the US and Canada is down/hanging around to 1.3 million, international attendance keeps falling. Video games sales are down a lot. Merchandise is down, in the age of ecommerce. The network has peaked.

Basically they niched out by killing the magic and treating everything like a joke. Plus, they don't even have the balls to sell a Wrestlemania without stars from 15+ years ago.

Either they they super lucky with guys and girls from NXT that Vince has fucked up - Dream, Lee, Riddle and Cole. Or offer a shitload of money to MJF.

Or they find an evolution to the near 12 year old PG era. 

Difficult imagine Wrestlemania 45 promoted as a nostalgia fest of Reigns, Rollins, Wyatt, Miz, Owens etc.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> I have to admit it's hilarious seeing Showstopper spin these numbers. This is the same dude who would bag on Raw ratings through 2015-2018 when they were immensely better than this (and still in the same positions in the key demo by the way). Yet apparently they were bad then.
> 
> They've lost 950k viewers and 0.45 in the key demo compared to 2 years ago. In 2018, they were up above 2017 for the Road to Wrestlemania in all metrics of the business. The decline since late 2018 and coming out of WM35 with Raw being built around Seth Floppins and Becky Stench is not normal. It's unprecedented and has fucked WWE over very badly both in terms of ratings and attendace.
> 
> It's almost like when Seth Floppins flopped so badly, some spin had to be done.


Imagine claiming that Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are "flopping" the ratings when the numbers of viewers continue to get lower per year in spite of who's getting pushed (with the former no longer positioned as the top babyface of the show for nearly 4 months now whereas the latter has mostly been appearing in segments on Raw lately for barely 5 minutes)  

We're not even 2 full months into Drew McIntyre's current push as the next babyface on Raw and we already have bitter folks bashing him for the ratings declining :lmao

It should be amusing to seeing more folks falsely blame future pushed wrestlers for the next 1-2 year(s), and seeing pretty much all of their pushes being labeled as "flops" :lol

I even claimed early back in October 2018 that ratings will continue to decrease no matter who they end pushing,; which they clearly did this past year, and that was when they STARTED pushing the fan favorites too as the world champions. Ratings still decreasing in spite of the most over talents being pushed on top should've been the wake-up call that WWE losing viewers was more of an issue relating to the product/company itself than it ever had to do with the individual talents themselves. Unsurprisingly though, some of the folks on here didn't learn from that, and I highly doubt that they'll ever learn too.

The truth is that several months (even YEARS) of WWE delivering stale, mediocre, or underwhelming shows to their fanbase ultimately lead to many wrestling fans tuning out in the end. The ratings will continue to get lower annually if WWE doesn't write good shows consistently with decent booking. I strongly believe that they're actually attempting to do that with Raw now, but just booking solid shows for 2+ months won't be enough (as we can clearly see with the underwhelming ratings atm). This good effort NEEDS to be done for the long-term for AT LEAST several more months until WWE can potentially win back the faith of their audience by finally getting more of them to tune in every week, which may prove to be more difficult with AEW being around to entertain the most passionate wrestling fans.

Anyway, some of the delusional folks can proceed to continue being wrong by blaming the individual talents for the low ratings and by twisting the false narratives that they're "tanking" the ratings with the use of these low numbers. It'll be cute seeing future prospects like Keith Lee eventually getting blamed for the low numbers in 1-2 year(s) when he inevitably moves up from NXT with the numbers for Raw being even lower :mj4


----------



## .christopher.

This time next year they'll be below two million. On the RTWM. Lovely stuff.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Thanks to Brock killing the main event scene so long there are no stars. Rollins is a complete flop as heel or face and Owens is midcard material at best. They made a mistake imo keeping Edge gone selling for so long.


----------



## ClintDagger

fabi1982 said:


> Feels like this is what people saying for the last 2 years. Still looking out for a constant sub 2.0..Maybe the next 12 month will do the trick..


Not true. People were predicting 3rd hour sub 2s. And that happened. Next to come will be the average being sub 2s. People keep saying there is a floor and they continually are proven wrong.


fabi1982 said:


> And what about my demo argument? Because as far as I remember that is the important one. So you say they should just go and fold, because they lose viewers although USA is very happy (look at their new years message) and they just started the 5 year deal worth a billion?


WWEs granular demos are atrocious. Worse than NASCAR.


Randy Lahey said:


> USA isn’t paying them $500 million a year to barely beat whatever is on Bravo, VH1, Discovery. They are paying them $500 mils to bring in monster ratings, and WWE isn’t doing monster ratings. They are doing the worst ratings they’ve ever done with a quickly aging demo.


That’s the point that people are missing. USA and Fox aren’t getting their bang for their buck and anyone that thinks that side of the deal is pleased right now are fooling themselves. The people that really “get” this stuff know what wwe is going through popularity and business-wise is concerning. Look at the trend of their stock price versus the markets as a whole. Wrestling is a star driven business and the cupboard is completely bare with no help on the way.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mongstyle said:


> I have to admit it's hilarious seeing Showstopper spin these numbers. This is the same dude who would bag on Raw ratings through 2015-2018 when they were immensely better than this (and still in the same positions in the key demo by the way). Yet apparently they were bad then.
> 
> They've lost 950k viewers and 0.45 in the key demo compared to 2 years ago. In 2018, they were up above 2017 for the Road to Wrestlemania in all metrics of the business. The decline since late 2018 and coming out of WM35 with Raw being built around Seth Floppins and Becky Stench is not normal. It's unprecedented and has fucked WWE over very badly both in terms of ratings and attendace.
> 
> It's almost like when Seth Floppins flopped so badly, some spin had to be done.



Hes been trolling since Rollins turned heel. Dont pay attention.


----------



## MontyCora

llj said:


> To be fair to Seth, he's clearly not "The Guy" anymore, and probably not even "The Guy" on RAW anymore, going by both his booking and the way his segments are promoted. And he hasn't been booked like "The Guy" since he dropped the title to Fiend 4-5 months ago. He won't be in a big match at Mania. So blaming him for the current ratings doesn't fly.
> 
> That gigantic 3rd hour drop last week during his promo was very bad though.
> 
> It seems like they've settled on Orton as the top featured male currently.





MontyCora said:


> I'm not calling it dumb, I'm saying "what do I care?" What do YOU care? All that matters to us as fans and televisions viewers is "is it good or bad? Do I want to keep watching, or do I not?"
> 
> So many people around here talk like they're promoters, who own significant stock in the company.


I mean... Owens is the guy. Orton isn't the top featured male... He's literally squishing peoples heads with chairs. The "top guy" can't be a vicious villain.


----------



## MontyCora

DammitChrist said:


> Imagine claiming that Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are "flopping" the ratings when the numbers of viewers continue to get lower per year in spite of who's getting pushed (with the former no longer positioned as the top babyface of the show for nearly 4 months now whereas the latter has mostly been appearing in segments on Raw lately for barely 5 minutes)
> 
> We're not even 2 full months into Drew McIntyre's current push as the next babyface on Raw and we already have bitter folks bashing him for the ratings declining :lmao
> 
> It should be amusing to seeing more folks falsely blame future pushed wrestlers for the next 1-2 year(s), and seeing pretty much all of their pushes being labeled as "flops" :lol
> 
> I even claimed early back in October 2018 that ratings will continue to decrease no matter who they end pushing,; which they clearly did this past year, and that was when they STARTED pushing the fan favorites too as the world champions. Ratings still decreasing in spite of the most over talents being pushed on top should've been the wake-up call that WWE losing viewers was more of an issue relating to the product/company itself than it ever had to do with the individual talents themselves. Unsurprisingly though, some of the folks on here didn't learn from that, and I highly doubt that they'll ever learn too.
> 
> The truth is that several months (even YEARS) of WWE delivering stale, mediocre, or underwhelming shows to their fanbase ultimately lead to many wrestling fans tuning out in the end. The ratings will continue to get lower annually if WWE doesn't write good shows consistently with decent booking. I strongly believe that they're actually attempting to do that with Raw now, but just booking solid shows for 2+ months won't be enough (as we can clearly see with the underwhelming ratings atm). This good effort NEEDS to be done for the long-term for AT LEAST several more months until WWE can potentially win back the faith of their audience by finally getting more of them to tune in every week, which may prove to be more difficult with AEW being around to entertain the most passionate wrestling fans.
> 
> Anyway, some of the delusional folks can proceed to continue being wrong by blaming the individual talents for the low ratings and by twisting the false narratives that they're "tanking" the ratings with the use of these low numbers. It'll be cute seeing future prospects like Keith Lee eventually getting blamed for the low numbers in 1-2 year(s) when he inevitably moves up from NXT with the numbers for Raw being even lower :mj4


I just listened to Cornette and his cohost reviewing a recent RAW, and they speak about it frankly and accurately. It's awkward, stilted. Every single possible thing is dragged out waaaaaay too long. Nobody believes anything anyone says, everything about it is artificial. When you're just used to Vince's shit, you can sort of forget how bad everything about Raw objectively is. It's truly largely unwatchable. In a world of UFC and boxing cards, sports and an almost endless barrage of very very high-quality TV shows, so many that most of us can't keep up with them all, Raw truly does not live up to lowest possible quality bar of television. If it wasn't able to coast on money deals and brand name recognition, it would have been cancelled at the pilot stage.


----------



## DaSlacker

ClintDagger said:


> Not true. People were predicting 3rd hour sub 2s. And that happened. Next to come will be the average being sub 2s. People keep saying there is a floor and they continually are proven wrong.
> 
> WWEs granular demos are atrocious. Worse than NASCAR.
> 
> That’s the point that people are missing. USA and Fox aren’t getting their bang for their buck and anyone that thinks that side of the deal is pleased right now are fooling themselves. The people that really “get” this stuff know what wwe is going through popularity and business-wise is concerning. Look at the trend of their stock price versus the markets as a whole. Wrestling is a star driven business and the cupboard is completely bare with no help on the way.


It must be concerning for them that many of the names on Raw are 40+. Brock, Orton, Styles, Lashley, Rey, Edge, Joe, Truth, Hardy, Benjamin.

EC3, Ryder, Hawkins, Jose, Tozawa, Rawley, Mahal, Alexander, Rowan, Young, The OC are just guys making up numbers. There is no coming back from 50/50 booking, bad writing AND being treated like a comedy act on a bad TV show.

Carillo and Murphy have shown incredible in ring skills but little else. The latter brought into jobber territory via a name change. Ricochet will be impacted by terrible promo ability; Andrade by lack of English.

That leaves Rollins, who had a terrible run as world champion in 2015 and again in 2019. And Owens, who hid from Braun in a toilet. Only Vikings, Black, Profits and Garza offer some hope.


----------



## llj

MontyCora said:


> I mean... Owens is the guy. Orton isn't the top featured male... He's literally squishing peoples heads with chairs. The "top guy" can't be a vicious villain.


Owens is not. The top featured guy is Orton, he either opens or closes shows and the pre-RAW ads usually promote his segments as the primary ones lately.

Owens and Seth are basically midcarders right now buried in less promoted segments in the middle or end of hour 3 most weeks.


----------



## Zappers

What happened to the Face of the Company? I thought she brought all these ratings in. Newsflash, she never was and will never will be the face of the company. She didn't bring anything to the table. No matter how much the marks want to believe it or what she believes herself.


----------



## Zappers

DaSlacker said:


> It must be concerning for them that many of the names on Raw are 40+. Brock, Orton, Styles, Lashley, Rey, Edge, Joe, Truth, Hardy, Benjamin.
> 
> EC3, Ryder, Hawkins, Jose, Tozawa, Rawley, Mahal, Alexander, Rowan, Young, The OC are just guys making up numbers. There is no coming back from 50/50 booking, bad writing AND being treated like a comedy act on a bad TV show.
> 
> Carillo and Murphy have shown incredible in ring skills but little else. The latter brought into jobber territory via a name change. Ricochet will be impacted by terrible promo ability; Andrade by lack of English.
> 
> That leaves Rollins, who had a terrible run as world champion in 2015 and again in 2019. And Owens, who hid from Braun in a toilet. Only Vikings, Black, Profits and Garza offer some hope.


I'm still holding out for EC3. I know it crazy, but I think someday they will figure out they made a mistake. Just hope it's not too late. BTW, he's injured(concussion) as of right now, so that's why he's not around.


----------



## Rozzop

Its stale. 

In fact its beyond stale its just a walking corpse. 

WWE have always changed things around every few years. New eras, new stars, new commentators. 

I get that there is not an infinate way you can promote a wrestling show but Raw is no different to 2015. No different to 2011. No different to 2008 you could argue. 

Thats 12 years of the same old shit. Just with a revolving cast of characters.

The fact they are not making new fans is suprising. 

I understand why I am burned out watching what seems like the same Raw for the past 12 years but what about that 10 year old kid who has never seen wrestling before. Why doesnt he watch it again? Tell all his mates at school etc.


----------



## DaSlacker

Rozzop said:


> Its stale.
> 
> In fact its beyond stale its just a walking corpse.
> 
> WWE have always changed things around every few years. New eras, new stars, new commentators.
> 
> I get that there is not an infinate way you can promote a wrestling show but Raw is no different to 2015. No different to 2011. No different to 2008 you could argue.
> 
> Thats 12 years of the same old shit. Just with a revolving cast of characters.
> 
> The fact they are not making new fans is suprising.
> 
> I understand why I am burned out watching what seems like the same Raw for the past 12 years but what about that 10 year old kid who has never seen wrestling before. Why doesnt he watch it again? Tell all his mates at school etc.


Kids are more into GTA and COD, MCU, Fortnite, real sports, YouTube channels. The games are engrossing due to being able to play with friends online. Something like Avengers Endgame is this generation's Wrestlemania III. The YouTube channels are chilish and funny and eccentric.

The problem with wrestling is not just the magic has gone, but it's so in your face. Any 7 year old who discovers wrestling will be a smark by the age of 8 by default unless they live under a rock. 

Plus, there is no cool or colourful superhero on top now Cena has gone (Reigns is too dull for kids). Plus, 5 hours of original live content per week is too much for the 10 minute video on demand generation. Raw and Smackdown being boring and generally shit in terms of logic, believabilty, presentation doesn't help.


----------



## Erramayhem89

DaSlacker said:


> Kids are more into GTA and COD, MCU, Fortnite, real sports, YouTube channels. The games are engrossing due to being able to play with friends online. Something like Avengers Endgame is this generation's Wrestlemania III. The YouTube channels are chilish and funny and eccentric.
> 
> The problem with wrestling is not just the magic has gone, but it's so in your face. Any 7 year old who discovers wrestling will be a smark by the age of 8 by default unless they live under a rock.
> 
> Plus, there is no cool or colourful superhero on top now Cena has gone (Reigns is too dull for kids). Plus, 5 hours of original live content per week is too much for the 10 minute video on demand generation. Raw and Smackdown being boring and generally shit in terms of logic, believabilty, presentation doesn't help.



LOL even sports are dying. People just don't care to watch TV as much, let alone stale wrestling that hasn't been worth watching since the early 2000's

As soon as Cena left it was all over. He was the last superstar wrestling will ever have. 

Also social media and censor/PC culture has destroyed wrestling


----------



## Erramayhem89

MontyCora said:


> I just listened to Cornette and his cohost reviewing a recent RAW, and they speak about it frankly and accurately. It's awkward, stilted. Every single possible thing is dragged out waaaaaay too long. Nobody believes anything anyone says, everything about it is artificial. When you're just used to Vince's shit, you can sort of forget how bad everything about Raw objectively is. It's truly largely unwatchable. In a world of UFC and boxing cards, sports and an almost endless barrage of very very high-quality TV shows, so many that most of us can't keep up with them all, Raw truly does not live up to lowest possible quality bar of television. If it wasn't able to coast on money deals and brand name recognition, it would have been cancelled at the pilot stage.


This is what happens when you script every damn word. But they can't allow open mics in today's PC era. People could get offended and sue lol. Dead srs, Vince knows this.


----------



## MontyCora

llj said:


> Owens is not. The top featured guy is Orton, he either opens or closes shows and the pre-RAW ads usually promote his segments as the primary ones lately.
> 
> Owens and Seth are basically midcarders right now buried in less promoted segments in the middle or end of hour 3 most weeks.


I'm not saying you're wrong, you watch Raw and I do not... But that's SO stupid. He's a pyscho villain! Wth haha.


----------



## xio8ups

a 210 lb sack of shit like rollins and like most of the roster are. Are not going to draw nothing but flies on shit.


----------



## llj

MontyCora said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong, you watch Raw and I do not... But that's SO stupid. He's a pyscho villain! Wth haha.


I watch parts of RAW that I'm interested in, but I do keep up with what they're advertising every week. They've been downgrading Seth for months now in terms of his segments, most of which involve Owens. Seth is simply not very relevant on RAW anymore since he dropped the belt, and by association, neither is Owens.


----------



## FatAbomination

2.257M average

Down 526,000 from a year ago

Down 1.045M from two years ago


----------



## llj

Bad number. Looks like we need another belt and a wildcard ru-...oh wait, already did those before!


----------



## Ace

Yikes ?


----------



## shadows123

2.2 million is more than what they deserve for the below average show quality they put out every week.


----------



## Frost99

FatAbomination said:


> 2.257M average
> 
> Down 526,000 from a year ago
> 
> *Down 1.045M from two years ago*


*THAT* feels like *THIS*


----------



## FatAbomination

Frost99 said:


> *THAT* feels like *THIS*


To be fair, 2018 was the one year they didn't drop as significantly as before because of Ronda Rousey. Still, pretty indicative of WWE's incapability of creating stars.


----------



## Erramayhem89

Imagine losing half a million viewers every year lmao

WWE will absolutely be dead in 5 years


----------



## MoxAsylum

The XL 2 said:


> 2.2 is shit. Raw is dead.


According to AEW marks 900k is a good number so I guess 2.2 is fantastic


----------



## FatAbomination

^Relativity is pretty important, but I guess let's just ignore that fact.


----------



## ClintDagger

WWE needs to decide who their master is going to be long-term and load up the talent for either Fox or USA. Then use the other show for non-drawing stuff like the women and the smaller guys. It’s clear they can’t sustain 5 hours of main roster TV.


----------



## llj

MoxAsylum said:


> According to AEW marks 900k is a good number so I guess 2.2 is fantastic


It's about value for the dollar. TNT pays far less for Dynamite than USA does for RAW, about several hundred millions less dollars, yet there's only about a million viewers difference between the two shows, which isn't really a heckuva lot considering RAW has lost a million viewers in only 16 months.


----------



## Randy Lahey

If they are doing 2.2 mils on the RTWM, they will def be under 2mils during MNF.


----------



## SPCDRI

ClintDagger said:


> WWE needs to decide who their master is going to be long-term and load up the talent for either Fox or USA. Then use the other show for non-drawing stuff like the women and the smaller guys. It’s clear they can’t sustain 5 hours of main roster TV.


WWE needs to realize it has a trillion people on the roster and try to cycle through as many of them as them as they can to see which ones stick so they can run with it. Same 100 people between 7 hours of shows every week now when they've got access to more than 300 pushing 400 people. The shows are tedious.


----------



## Strike Force

WWE has known this was coming. This is the result of spending the last 15 years creating a grand total of one genuine star (John Cena) and drawing in practically no new fans.

Think about this for a second: men 18-34 are the most coveted television demographic. A person who was 34 when the Attitude Era began is nearing 60. SIXTY. When the core of your audience, driven purely by nostalgia, has been getting AARP cards in the mail for years, that's not a good sign.


----------



## JTB33b

Remember when Raw dropped to 3 Million and people talked about how horrible the company has become? that number the company would die for now lol. A couple years from now the company would be thriving to reach 2 million.


----------



## llj

Strike Force said:


> WWE has known this was coming. This is the result of spending the last 15 years creating a grand total of one genuine star (John Cena) and drawing in practically no new fans.
> 
> Think about this for a second: men 18-34 are the most coveted television demographic. A person who was 34 when the Attitude Era began is nearing 60. SIXTY. When the core of your audience, driven purely by nostalgia, has been getting AARP cards in the mail for years, that's not a good sign.


Exactly. I laugh when the WWE rolls out these old farts and the crowds go gaga for them and a bunch of people in here act like these old farts are actually doing something so special when they show up to get those pops. They get these pops not because they're doing anything particularly special, they get them because WWE's audience is dominated by old farts.

If the WWE had successfully appealed to a younger demographic, less people would pop for these old dudes because nobody under the age 30 should really remember them.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.157M [11th] | 0.680D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 2.222M [9th] | 0.710D [1st]
V3 | D3: 2.109M [12th] | 0.680D [2nd]

3V | 3D: 2.163M | 0.690D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.065M | + 3.01% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 4.41% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.113M | - 5.09% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.23% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.048M | - 2.23% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.094M | - 4.16% ]
[ - 0.047D | - 6.38% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.656M | - 23.27% ]
[ - 0.283D | - 29.09% ]*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*02/24/20

V1 | D1: 2.246M [9th] | 0.710D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 2.278M [8th] | 0.730D [1st]
V3 | D3: 2.106M [10th] | 0.680D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.210M | 0.707D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.032M | + 1.42% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 2.82% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.172M | - 7.55% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 6.85% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.140M | - 6.23% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.23% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.227M | - 9.31% ]
[ - 0.083D | - 10.51% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.712M | - 24.37% ]
[ - 0.310D | - 30.48% ]

03/02/20

V1 | D1: 2.358M [10th] | 0.760D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.297M [12th] | 0.750D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.115M [14th] | 0.700D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.257M | 0.737D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.061M | - 2.59% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.32% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.182M | - 7.92% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 6.67% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.243M | - 10.31% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 7.89% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.047M | + 2.13% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 4.24% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.526M | - 18.90% ]
[ - 0.246D | - 25.03% ]*


----------



## Ace

Those are terrible numbers.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

2016 RTWM Viewership:

*3/07/2016:* 3,551,000
*3/14/2016:* 3,458,000
*3/21/2016:* 3,393,000
*3/28/2016: *3,764,000

2017 RTWM Viewership:

*March 6th Episode:* 3.216 million viewers
*March 13th Episode:* 3.232 million viewers
*March 20th Episode:* 3.048 million viewers
*March 27th Episode:* 3.292 million viewers

2018 RTWM Viewership:

*March 5th Episode:* 3.099 million viewers
*March 12th Episode:* 3.352 million viewers
*March 19th Episode:* 3.327 million viewers
*March 26th Episode:* 3.366 million viewers
*April 2nd Episode:* 3.357 million viewers

2019 RTWM Viewership:

*March 4 Episode:* 2.783 million viewers
*March 11 Episode:* 2.819 million viewers
*March 18 Episode:* 2.695 million viewers
*March 25 Episode:* 2.589 million viewers
*April 1 Episode:* 2.639 million viewers

2020 RTWM Viewership:

*March 2 Episode:* 2.256 million viewers
*March 9 Episode:* 2.163 million viewers

They might be in the 1.7-2.0 range next year.


----------



## Erramayhem89

It doesn't really matter what the ratings are because it's still one of the highest rated shows on cable. What matters is that people don't care about wrestling much anymore. They can't create stars. They have maybe 5 years left before they aren't on cable anymore lol


----------



## MoxAsylum

LOL. Seth Rollins continues to burn those ratings down along with his boyfriend Becky


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

MoxAsylum said:


> LOL. Seth Rollins continues to burn those ratings down along with his boyfriend Becky


Except for the fact that Hour 3 did better than Hour 2, and that rarely happens.

Biggest programs on Raw on this Road to WM are Drew/Brock and Becky/Shayna. Whatever the show draws is more on those 4 folks more than anyone else. Thus far, the Seth/Brock feud from last year on the RTWM is drawing more than Drew/Brock. Just saying.

They STILL do more than double of what AEW does, even the show after AEW crowns a new World Champion, WWE still does more than double that show.


----------



## Ace

MoxAsylum said:


> LOL. Seth Rollins continues to burn those ratings down along with his boyfriend Becky


 lol how is this on Rollins? Drew and Becky are the focus and top stars of Raw atm.


----------



## Mongstyle

Seth's quarter hours are terrible and have been since last year. And hour 3 not having a big drop off is likely to do with Orton and Edge, since they've been positioning Orton in that hour for the last couple weeks since his quarter hours have been doing the best on the show. Having said that, this shit show isn't currently on Seth anyway. He did his damage last year as he dramatically failed as the worst top face since HBK two decades ago. 

This is on Drew, Edge, Orton, and Becky.

That first hour number is a disaster. 2.157 million is just pathetic. That's as clear sign as any that interest is dead in Raw. This is what happens when you build a PPV around the jobbers in the women's division. They've continued to put Becky and her feuds in prime slots since last year's Mania, and she continues to fucking fail week after week. There is no interest in her shitty Mania angle.

On top of that, Drew is clearly a disaster as Brock's opponent. Whenever they've advertised Brock, he shows up and pops the numbers. When he's not around, no one gives a shit about Drew. This is kind of a problem since you know, Drew is the face. There should be interest in his journey and there clearly isn't. The interest is purely in Brock. And this is now the second year in a row that Brock has not delivered good numbers with his opponent. A problem seeing as Brock has delivered good numbers with his opponents every year since his return until last year.

Edge and Orton is whatever. They do decent quarter hour ratings, but considering how shit the ratings are in general, I'm not even sure that can be considered a positive. It's clear their feud is a dud and is not generating enough interest to help alleviate the shit show that is the rest of Raw.

The whole booking of Elimination Chamber was idiotic. WWE is too busy trying to pretend everyone is important, when they're not, that they're hurting the show. The EC should've been built around Goldberg's challenger. At least Smackdown would stand to benefit from the post-PPV bump. Instead they've basically wasted an entire PPV on some shitty Becky angle that has no heat anyway. 

The other problem is one of momentum. When you waste PPVs on shitty angles like this, it just sends a message the product is dead. That then hurts the show itself because of a lack of interest. You can't get that 3 hours of Elimination Chamber back. You wasted all that exposure and time on a bunch of crap basically.


----------



## Ace

Drew has no staying power as top babyface. With him on top of the show feels like it's missing a top babyface with KO occupied in a never ending feud with Rollins and no one else to really challenge for the spot.

It was a mistake to go with him, KO would have been infinitely more over in that role against Brock and far more entertaining.


----------



## Swindle

This definitely feels like the last gasp of the part timers and we're still doing the FOTC musical chair dance. The EC was filler, lacked star power and had no stakes as well.


----------



## Cosmo77

You really cant positively spin these awful numbers

Yes i know its one of the top rated on cable,but cable is dying so that doesnt say much,

aslo where was shayna bazler, she shoud have appeared live insead of on the tron.

with other competition around, wwe deserves these numbers with that Awful main event.


----------



## Ace

The best part of this is they're probably going to have Taker and Goldberg go over AJ and Roman.

How bout dem ratings Vince? ?

Raw will be doing 1.5m later this year.


----------



## Erik.

I havn't really watched WWE in probably 9 or so months but just looking at the WM card this year, why WOULD you tune inO


----------



## Mongstyle

Ace said:


> Drew has no staying power as top babyface. With him on top of the show feels like it's missing a top babyface with KO occupied in a never ending feud with Rollins and no one else to really challenge for the spot.
> 
> It was a mistake to go with him, KO would have been infinitely more over in that role against Brock and far more entertaining.


They shouldn't have gone with any single guy. There is no star on Raw who is legit enough to be the top face on the show. Not one of them has that presence. And not one of them is credible enough to be facing Brock in a big time singles match at Wrestlemania.

They should've built up a big multi-man match and put forward a few guys like Drew, Owens, and maybe one of Joe or Orton. That would allow them to build a long angle out of it at least and get to Mania in a chaotic way. That would get them enough interest because you have plenty of story to mine there on a week to week basis. And if as a result of that, someone catches on, you can run with them for a few months after Mania just to go in a fresh direction until you figure out what's next. It also gives a fresh angle for Brock at Mania. Instead they've basically tried to redo last year's flop angle with Seth, but with options that are worse.


----------



## ClintDagger

I see these numbers and all I can think about is the people here who say year after year that they’ve hit the floor. Until this year that is; I think even WWE apologists know this is a dying genre from a TV perspective. If you’re a company like AEW that doesn’t care about profit you can get by with less than a million viewers as networks are hungry for cheap content. But WWE can’t survive being cheap content. Yet that’s exactly where they’re headed. They’ll be 100% behind a paywall within the next decade.


----------



## WindPhoenix

This is also why you don't try to make NXT this 3rd brand equal to Raw and Smackdown. NXT still has that developmental stigma. All the effort to make NXT on the same level as Raw or Smackdown is taking its toll on the top shows. Presenting it as an underdog brand lets Smackdown and Raw grow while NXT grows by osmosis.

Most of the weekly wrestling audience doesn't know who Rhea Ripley and Shayna Baszler are. Jobbing out the Raw women hurt more than helped.

Edge/Orton and Drew/Brock are the only somewhat hot programs. Even then I question if you should put the title on Drew.


----------



## Swindle

Yeah, the time to callups used to be after Mania, not in the leadup to Mania.


----------



## DaSlacker

You'd think they'd be trying something to renew interest because it's not just viewership. That would be worrying enough, but other metrics paint a picture of decline. Furthermore, the feedback from critical audience research and focus groups can't be impressive. Even if USA Network are happy for now it doesn't make it indefinite.

Bold decisions such as cutting 90 minutes off the show, making Raw TV-14, altering the name, hard reboot. Anything. Vince was once the master at changing direction when interest was waning. Even Turner brought in WWF writers, shaved an hour of Nitro and changed direction.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Edge/Orton is the only thing worth a damn on this show and even that segment under delivered compared to the previous segments although Edge pulling out an RKO was cool.

That is one of the worst 1st hours numbers I have ever seen that wasn't a Holiday. The only good thing about these numbers are that hour 3 did not drop very much and that was probably due to the Edge/Orton angle took place right as the hour 3 began.


----------



## ClintDagger

DaSlacker said:


> You'd think they'd be trying something to renew interest because it's not just viewership. That would be worrying enough, but other metrics paint a picture of decline. Furthermore, the feedback from critical audience research and focus groups can't be impressive. Even if USA Network are happy for now it doesn't make it indefinite.
> 
> Bold decisions such as cutting 90 minutes off the show, making Raw TV-14, altering the name, hard reboot. Anything. Vince was once the master at changing direction when interest was waning. Even Turner brought in WWF writers, shaved an hour of Nitro and changed direction.


Is USA Network happy? They’re the ones that apparently created the 24/7 Title to Vince’s chagrin. Let’s face it, it’s buyer’s remorse all around.


----------



## Chan Hung

What a shit rating for a hugely promoted Edge Return.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Barely doing over 2 million on RTWM...I mean lol...against no competition even. Its crazy to think this year is even worse than last year. And not just a little worse, ALOT worse. 25% down from last year.


----------



## Rozzop

I cant believe people are still blaming one or two people. 

"If Owens was at the top of the card facing Brock instead of Drew then the show would be doing a 3.5"

"It's all Beckys fault. She loses 8 viewers every time she is on screen. Imagine if that was Asuku. The ratings would be 3.4"

How about the ENTIRE company is garbage? I have never known anyone to like wrestling or tune into a show for just one or two people. 

I wasn't buying a ppv in 2000 because Rock was in the main event but the rest of the show was crap. I was buying it cos the whole show was good. 

I dislike most of the show. There are no stars. The writing is terrible. The commentary is dreadful. 

It is an absolute shell of itself compared to how good it was in its heyday so why do I bother watching? 

Cos I like wrestling. Maybe I am a hardcore fan who will watch anything just because its wrestling? 

Thats pretty much who is left. The hardcore fan who will watch regardless. Everybody else has been drove away. 

And they havent been drove away cos of one particular event or wrestler. They have been drove away because they have decided the entire show from top to bottom is just not worth tuning into. 

And that fan who has been drove away. Say they hear about Drew and give Raw a shot because they want to see his push. Are they sitting through 3 hours of garbage to get to Drew and giving up or are they enthralled by Rowans spider? Are they intrigued by Humberto flipping around like a circus act? Are they loving Shayna and Becky? Suddenly do they like Drew, Rowan, Humberto, Shayna and Becky? Odds are no.


----------



## llj

Nobody gives a fuck about the WWE anymore. I'd say people don't care about wrestling too, but at least AEW and NJPW crowds are enthusiastic, despite having a weaker brand strength compared to the worldwide dominance of the WWE.

Every week I tune in and I see dead crowds, drastically declining ratings, diminishing attendance and nothing and nobody is stopping it. There is talent here, but they're all dead and buried and the ones they are pushing aren't offsetting it.

WWE marks keep saying that if the WWE dies it would be a horrible thing. That may be true. But at some point trash deserves to be thrown in the trash. They've burned up so much goodwill that when they do go under,nobody will feel sorry for them except the 500k or so diehards left at that point when it does.


----------



## FatAbomination

Showstopper said:


> Except for the fact that Hour 3 did better than Hour 2, and that rarely happens.
> 
> Biggest programs on Raw on this Road to WM are Drew/Brock and Becky/Shayna. Whatever the show draws is more on those 4 folks more than anyone else. Thus far, the Seth/Brock feud from last year on the RTWM is drawing more than Drew/Brock. Just saying.
> 
> They STILL do more than double of what AEW does, even the show after AEW crowns a new World Champion, WWE still does more than double that show.


Compare RAW to itself and not AEW, that comparison is worth absolutely nothing. Even still, this RAW was promoting Edge's return and was coming off of a PPV with an appearance by The Undertaker. Still, comparing the two shows is worth nothing.

RAW is down 650k year over year, and I don't know if anyone on here posts the quarter hours, but for a main event level guy, Seth Rollins is one of the most consistent viewer-losers in the company. He loses anywhere from 150-250k in all of his segments.

Nonetheless, it's a fault of no one but the inconsistent, star destroying programming they've been putting on for the last decade+, and to win new viewers to watch a 3 hour show is going to be exponentially harder than getting them to watch a 2 hour show.


----------



## FatAbomination

It is absolutely shocking how much the WWE has destroyed their M 12-34 demo, there's a 5% drop year over year which is expected in instances, and then there's this.

*M12-34, second Monday in March*
20160314: 1.40, 1.47, 1.64
20170313: 1.04, 1.10, 1.12
20180312: 1.03, 1.06, 1.04
20190311: 0.87, 0.91, 0.88
20200309: 0.53, 0.57, 0.55 

Each hour for the last 5 years for the 2nd Monday in March. Hour 3 in 2016 did a 1.64, Hour 3 in 2020 did a 0.55, they've lost 66% of their audience over the course of 5 years, this is the lifeline of the future of your company, and it's just getting obliterated.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FatAbomination said:


> and to win new viewers to watch a 3 hour show is going to be exponentially harder than getting them to watch a 2 hour show.


Your last sentence sums it up and is all that matters in your post. Much harder to get people to watch a 3 hour show than any 2 hour show, yet the 3 hour show still does more than double the 2 hour show, despite the lack of stars.

Oh, by the way, all 3 hours of Raw this week were the most watched hours on Cable in the 18-49 demo...again, which it's done most of the weeks since NFL season ended:










Sorry to say, but as long as Raw is either at the top or near the top of this chart most weeks, it's not going anywhere and will continue to get paid top dollar by USA. 

It took me awhile to realize that fact. But it's true.


----------



## Cosmo77

still kind of funny to see Showstopper trying to positively spin these numbers.


----------



## FatAbomination

Everyone knows they are at the top, but they are dropping at an alarming rate. 

This isn't that difficult to grasp, they are being paid an obscene amount of money not only to be at the top, but to pull a certain baseline viewership. If they continue to drop at this rate they aren't going to be paid as much as they are.

AEW is a show that's paid $45 million a year, it's a brand new startup, it's not supposed to be pulling the numbers RAW is. The comparison is completely useless.


----------



## ClintDagger

FatAbomination said:


> It is absolutely shocking how much the WWE has destroyed their M 12-34 demo, there's a 5% drop year over year which is expected in instances, and then there's this.
> 
> *M12-34, second Monday in March*
> 20160314: 1.40, 1.47, 1.64
> 20170313: 1.04, 1.10, 1.12
> 20180312: 1.03, 1.06, 1.04
> 20190311: 0.87, 0.91, 0.88
> 20200309: 0.53, 0.57, 0.55
> 
> Each hour for the last 5 years for the 2nd Monday in March. Hour 3 in 2016 did a 1.64, Hour 3 in 2020 did a 0.55, they've lost 66% of their audience over the course of 5 years, this is the lifeline of the future of your company, and it's just getting obliterated.


You are looking at the age breakdown exactly right. The younger end of their spectrum is leaving faster than the rest which means they are in trouble across all of their business flows. It’s younger people that buy merch and go to shows. Not 55+ types.

When it comes to WWE people get too caught up in the age demo, at least from the perspective that them being ranked so high in the key demo matters. It actually doesn’t because where their demos fall across all age brackets socioeconomically is horrible. Raw’s real value to USA is just in the overall number because USA keeps WWE around only to boost them up the charts on “most watched networks” rankings. It keeps them among the elite cable networks for rights fees and carriage if you will. The more viewers Raw loses especially relative to other shows the less value they have to NBCU.


----------



## llj

I mean, it's clear that the 24/7 title and the wildcard thing were done in an attempt to energize the product. USA was the one that suggested these stunts. If things were REALLY hunky dory, they wouldn't have to suggest it, so I can't imagine they're pleased at the numbers they have been posting since WM34.

You can spin these numbers as being top of the demos every week or whatever, but USA sees the WWE as a long term investment and they're seeing these numbers dropping year over year at an alarming rate--they can't NOT be worried about what they will have on their hands 2-3 years from now.


----------



## FatAbomination

The numbers are going to be really bad come May, you would have to think they are going to have AJ and Orton lose, and Rollins/Drew might end up being your main event program, that's a YIKES from me, ratings disaster.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> They STILL do more than double of what AEW does, even the show after AEW crowns a new World Champion, WWE still does more than double that show.


Yes, a wrestling show that has been building up its brand and been on the air for 25 years and has millions from tv deals to pay for staff, support and advertising is doing better than a show that's 5 months old about a company that's 1 year old. Shocking.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Yes, a wrestling show that has been building up its brand and been on the air for 25 years and has millions from tv deals to pay for staff, support and advertising is doing better than a show that's 5 months old about a company that's 1 year old. Shocking.


They're also fresh, brand new, and don't have a 3rd hour. All good things that WWE doesn't have.


----------



## ClintDagger

ShadowCounter said:


> Yes, a wrestling show that has been building up its brand and been on the air for 25 years and has millions from tv deals to pay for staff, support and advertising is doing better than a show that's 5 months old about a company that's 1 year old. Shocking.


Imagine how close of a race it would be if AEW didn’t have head to head wrestling competition. They might be on the cusp of 1.5 million some weeks.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Cosmo77 said:


> still kind of funny to see Showstopper trying to positively spin these numbers.


He's been trolling this thread since they turned Rollins heel. Just bait posts.


----------



## SPCDRI

This time last year on RTWM, RAW was close to 3 million, doing numbers like 2.7, 2.8 million. 
There's no way people at USA are happy that a show they are spending 200 million a year on just dropped over half a million viewers in a year. 
What television executive would be happy about a show that not too long ago was doing close to 4 million viewers this time of the year now barely doing 2 million?


----------



## xio8ups

2.2 rtwrm lols


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> This time last year on RTWM, RAW was close to 3 million, doing numbers like 2.7, 2.8 million.
> There's no way people at USA are happy that a show they are spending 200 million a year on just dropped over half a million viewers in a year.
> What television executive would be happy about a show that not too long ago was doing close to 4 million viewers this time of the year now barely doing 2 million?


Especially when last year’s numbers were considered really bad to begin with.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.412M [14th] | 0.800D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.486M [13th] | 0.770D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 2.108M [23rd] | 0.700D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.335M | 0.757D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.074M | + 3.07% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 3.75% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.378M | - 15.21% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 9.09% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.304M | - 12.60% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.172M | + 7.95% ]
[ + 0.067D | + 9.71% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.360M | - 13.36% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 14.66% ]*


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> He's been trolling this thread since they turned Rollins heel. Just bait posts.


showstopper one of the goats bro, don't @ me


showstopper is right btw. i completely agree with him


----------



## llj

2.3 with Austin there and everyone at home and the novelty factor. Even if you write off hour 3, it's still basically 2.4 which is really not great. 

It's clear the audience is what it is and they are not gonna gain any new viewers regardless of the state of the world. They'd rather NOT watch WWE than be forced to watch it.

It's also clear that the Austin bump doesn't have the same effect now as even 2 years ago. His last 2 appearances haven't produced much of an effect.


----------



## Ace

Damn, that third hour with Austin died.

Hours 1 and 2 were good.


----------



## xio8ups




----------



## ClintDagger

Almost seems like people were willing to wait 2 hours for Austin but realized it was going to be the final segment and checked out. Austin might pop a rating if he’s been away for say 5 years, but he’s been around too often for anybody to care that much.


----------



## .christopher.

Stone Cold is my favourite of all time, but I didn't even look at his segment. I knew it'd be shit because wrestling is that bad. They could have Rock and AustIn in their primes feuding and, in the current day of wrestling, it'd suck sweaty, hairy balls.

The fact that two million people still watch this is a miracle, and an indicator of how the human race is, well, not all there in the head.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Ace said:


> Damn, that third hour with Austin died.
> 
> Hours 1 and 2 were good.


Pretty sure the royal rumble replay killed the viewers


----------



## xio8ups

Would you rather watch fake fights. With a metoo women movement being shoved down your throat. Or real fights like ufc etc.


----------



## validreasoning

xio8ups said:


> Would you rather watch fake fights. With a metoo women movement being shoved down your throat. Or real fights like ufc etc.


More people watch the fake fights on tv anyway

March 14, UFC on ESPN 8 = 672,000 viewers (0.22 in 18-49 demo)
Dec 7 2019UFC on ESPN 7 = 1.071 million viewers (0.48 in 18-49 demo)
October 18, UFC on ESPN 6 = 807,000 viewers (0.33 in 18-49 demo)
August 4, UFC on ESPN 5 = 680,000 viewers (0.27 in 18-49 demo)
July 20, UFC on ESPN 4 = 957,000 viewers (0.37 in 18-49 demo)
June 29, UFC on ESPN 3 = 1.091 million (0.42 in 18-49 demo)
March 30, UFC on ESPN 2= 828,000 viewers (0.26 in 18-49 demo)
Feb 17, UFC on ESPN 1 = 1.463 million viewers (0.59 in 18-49 demo)


October 18th event aired live same night as Smackdown which tripled UFCs viewers with over 2.4 million watching


----------



## Randy Lahey

validreasoning said:


> More people watch the fake fights on tv anyway
> 
> March 14, UFC on ESPN 8 = 672,000 viewers (0.22 in 18-49 demo)
> Dec 7 2019UFC on ESPN 7 = 1.071 million viewers (0.48 in 18-49 demo)
> October 18, UFC on ESPN 6 = 807,000 viewers (0.33 in 18-49 demo)
> August 4, UFC on ESPN 5 = 680,000 viewers (0.27 in 18-49 demo)
> July 20, UFC on ESPN 4 = 957,000 viewers (0.37 in 18-49 demo)
> June 29, UFC on ESPN 3 = 1.091 million (0.42 in 18-49 demo)
> March 30, UFC on ESPN 2= 828,000 viewers (0.26 in 18-49 demo)
> Feb 17, UFC on ESPN 1 = 1.463 million viewers (0.59 in 18-49 demo)
> 
> 
> October 18th event aired live same night as Smackdown which tripled UFCs viewers with over 2.4 million watching


It's not apples to apples though, because UFC never put their best guys on ESPN. They would save Conor, Jon Jones, and Khabib for PPV. If UFC put their best fighters on ESPN, they'd be doing enormous ratings. But with the way UFC did it, it was basically their version of minor league guys fighting. 

I don't think the UFC or even boxing will ever draw big ratings on ESPN since those sports are predicated upon stars drawing.


----------



## LPPrince

My stepdad had Raw on and when the Rumble replay started, he gave up watching it part way through. He hadn't seen the Rumble and didn't know who was gonna win, but in commercials they advertised that Drew was the Rumble winner so he was like, "Oh, well alright then". Since at that point he already knew how it was gonna end, he lost interest and changed the channel.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

> ESPN started to air classic WrestleMania events last Sunday at 7 p.m. eastern with WrestleMania 30 from April 2014.
> 
> ESPN will air different WrestleMania events for three Sundays. This is being done to fill their content schedule due to the outbreak of the coronavirus.
> 
> The re-airing of WrestleMania 30 on ESPN averaged 839,000 viewers. In the 18-49 demo, the WrestleMania 30 special averaged a 0.31 rating and finished 30th for the night on cable.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.289M [32nd] | 0.720D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 2.004M [37th] | 0.610D [8th]
V3 | D3: 1.726M [39th] | 0.510D [10th]

3V | 3D: 2.006M | 0.613D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.285M | - 12.45% ]
[ - 0.110D | - 15.28% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.278M | - 13.87% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 16.39% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.563M | - 24.60% ]
[ - 0.210D | - 29.17% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.329M | - 14.09% ]
[ - 0.144D | - 19.02% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.583M | - 22.52% ]
[ - 0.274D | - 30.89% ]*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Eeeek


----------



## Mongstyle

Fucking lol.

I called it. I said this year they could hit around 2 million during Mania season. And this ain't because of the pandemic. The writing was on the wall for weeks. I said it before, this was the first year ever that Raw did not get a post-Rumble bump and the first time ever Raw ratings have declined during Mania season compared to before.

They deserve it. This is what you get for putting a bland ass superstar like Drew in your top angle. How the fuck do you pick someone even worse than Rollins a year after Rollins helped tank the ratings in the first place?

They just made one stupid move after another.


----------



## llj

Terrible number. Nobody cared about Wrestlemania before, and even less do now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Orton closed the show with a promo (and a good one at that) to accept Edge's challenge. So much for those people who said "promos draw ratings." First really bad hour 3 rating during this virus shit.

I wouldn't get on a high-horse about SD, either. Despite getting big names like Goldberg and Cena, they're where they were pre- Road to WM, in the mid 2's, with no competition and only 2 hours to fill. Just wait until Goldy and Cena are gone and they're stuck with the same bland garbage on their full-time roster (for the most part).


----------



## llj

Yeah, the Friday night rule doesn't apply for Smackdown anymore since everyone is staying in now. It's clear that wrestling just isn't much of a draw anymore, and now nobody cares one iota about Mania this year.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> Orton closed the show with a promo (and a good one at that) to accept Edge's challenge. So much for those people who said "promos draw ratings." First really bad hour 3 rating during this virus shit.
> 
> I wouldn't get on a high-horse about SD, either. Despite getting big names like Goldberg and Cena, they're where they were pre- Road to WM, in the mid 2's, with no competition and only 2 hours to fill. Just wait until Goldy and Cena are gone and they're stuck with the same bland garbage on their full-time roster (for the most part).


Except Smackdown has done similar numbers without Goldberg or Cena as they have with them. So they will likely be fine regardless because people actually tune in to see the stars on that show consistently.

Just because your boy was the biggest fucking flop since the mid-90s doesn't mean Smackdown is going to struggle like Raw. They obviously ain't. They have a stable viewership.

Just be grateful Drew FlopIntyre is here to take away from the stench of Seth Floppins failure.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Except Smackdown has done similar numbers without Goldberg or Cena as they have with them. So they will likely be fine regardless because people actually tune in to see the stars on that show consistently.
> 
> Just because your boy was the biggest fucking flop since the mid-90s doesn't mean Smackdown is going to struggle like Raw. They obviously ain't. They have a stable viewership.
> 
> Just be grateful Drew FlopIntyre is here to take away from the stench of Seth Floppins failure.


SD is on NATIONAL television. The fact that they draw what they draw and are very much in the same vicinity of Raw is as much of a flop as anything that WWE has ever experienced in it's entire history. This isn't Raw on Cable. This is NATIONAL television. And they can't even hit 3 million, with only two hours to fill. Some 'stars' SD is pedalling out there every week.

SD on FOX has been a MASSIVE failure in every way possible. The show is such a dead-beat that the likes of Goldberg as CHAMPION and Cena coming back can't even breathe any life into the show in any aspect.

"Stars", my ass.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> SD is on NATIONAL television. The fact that they draw what they draw and are very much in the same vicinity of Raw is as much of a flop as anything that WWE has ever experienced in it's entire history. This isn't Raw on Cable. This is NATIONAL television. And they can't even hit 3 million, with only two hours to fill. Some 'stars' SD is pedalling out there every week.
> 
> SD on FOX has been a MASSIVE failure in every way possible. The show is such a dead-beat that the likes of Goldberg as CHAMPION and Cena coming back can't even breathe any life into the show in any aspect.
> 
> "Stars", my ass.


That's it. Let it all out.

All that emotion of Seth Floppins proving he was a failure without a shadow of a doubt.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> That's it. Let it all out.
> 
> All that emotion of Seth Floppins proving he was a failure without a shadow of a doubt.


National television. Finish 2nd to last place only ahead of the CW Network every week.  I don't blame ya'. I'd be pissed, too. And it's only going to get worse after WM this year. Can't wait to have some fun with that. It's coming.


----------



## Ace

LMFAO.

2m, they are so fucked post WM.

Need to remember this is on the RTWM AND more people are watching TV, they have no competition.


----------



## Erramayhem89

WWE is screwed. I'm still saying it, WWE will be gone in 5 years. It just isn't working anymore.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> National television. Finish 2nd to last place only ahead of the CW Network every week.  I don't blame ya'. I'd be pissed, too. And it's only going to get worse after WM this year. Can't wait to have some fun with that. It's coming.


It's amazing. I can tell how much this eats you up inside.

Seth Floppins really did a number on you. This is what happens when you get so attached to failures.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> It's amazing. I can tell how much this eats you up inside.
> 
> Seth Floppins really did a number on you. This is what happens when you get so attached to failures.


The ratings with Rollins getting a title shot last year aren't too far off from what SD is drawing this year with Goldbeg, Cena, and Reigns getting yet another failed coronation. I mean, you wanna talk failure? What number failure coronation will it be this year? 5?

 Talk about being hurt. All these failed coronations have you in here comparing a 3 hour cable show to a 2 hour Network TV show. Come back to Earth, brother. There's NO bigger failure in history than THAT right there.


----------



## Fearless Viper

I wonder how the ratings will be after mania...


----------



## Ace

Fearless Viper said:


> I wonder how the ratings will be after mania...


 They'd genuinely be better off running AE replays.

Those would do 3m, heck I'd even watch.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> The ratings with Rollins getting a title shot last year aren't too far off from what SD is drawing this year with Goldbeg, Cena, and Reigns getting yet another failed coronation. I mean, you wanna talk failure? What number failure coronation will it be this year? 5?
> 
> Talk about being hurt. All these failed coronations have you in here comparing a 3 hour cable show to a 2 hour Network TV show. Come back to Earth, brother. There's NO bigger failure in history than THAT right there.


A million viewers lost in a span of 4 months. USA Network stepping in to get more starpower on Raw, and Seth Rollins making that Tweet that made him sound like a bitch who knew he was failing after Reigns was suddenly coming back to Raw 2 weeks after going to Smackdown.

Seth Floppins flopped so badly Raw still hasn't recovered. And neither did he. Dude is in a thrown together match with Owens a year later.

Don't worry though. Maybe they'll send him to Smackdown so you can start pretending like he matters again.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> A million viewers lost in a span of 4 months. USA Network stepping in to get more starpower on Raw, and Seth Rollins making that Tweet that made him sound like a bitch who knew he was failing after Reigns was suddenly coming back to Raw 2 weeks after going to Smackdown.
> 
> Seth Floppins flopped so badly Raw still hasn't recovered. And neither did he. Dude is in a thrown together match with Owens a year later.


The most failed coronations in the _History of the Business._ Say it with me, folks...#










A billion dollars for 2 million viewers on Network freaking Television.


----------



## Zappers

Wait what happened? The face of the company Becky Lynch made an appearance. Why did they get below 2 million viewers?


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> The most failed coronations in the _History of the Business._ Say it with me, folks...#
> 
> A billion dollars for 2 million viewers on Network freaking Television.


2.4 million viewers is what Fox wanted, per their own executive. That's what they're getting. 2 million is what Raw has tanked to thanks to Seth Floppins tanking so badly and now them being unable to pick up the pieces.

Meanwhile you don't seem to understand what a coronation actually is. Hint, it can only happen once. And you seem to regurgitate Meltzer's opinions as you are incapable of forming your own thoughts. Evident by the coronation line and the fact that you thought Smackdown doing 3 million would be good, something Meltzer pulled out of his ass and was contradicted on by a Fox executive.

Seth Floppins let you down so badly that you're no longer coherent. It is funny though. Your two darlings are basically the two biggest failures as top faces ever. It's like everything you choose is destined to fail. Worlds smallest tears. I wonder if that's the only small thing connecting you three. 😢


----------



## DaSlacker

The longer this


Erramayhem89 said:


> WWE is screwed. I'm still saying it, WWE will be gone in 5 years. It just isn't working anymore.


Everyone always talks about that elusive new boom period.

But in reality the WWE were and and more likely to shed viewers to the point wrestling returns to the regional format. Several promotions all on equal footing with their own specific little fanbase. Only this time all the promotions will be national and accessible.

Covid19 is just speeding up the decline. Raw will drop below 2 million during the spring lull; to 1.7 million viewers if this thing goes on longer. The viewers won't return.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> 2.4 million viewers is what Fox wanted, per their own executive. That's what they're getting. 2 million is what Raw has tanked to thanks to Seth Floppins tanking so badly and now them being unable to pick up the pieces.
> 
> Meanwhile you don't seem to understand what a coronation actually is. Hint, it can only happen once. And you seem to regurgitate Meltzer's opinions as you are incapable of forming your own thoughts. Evident by the coronation line and the fact that you thought Smackdown doing 3 million would be good, something Meltzer pulled out of his ass and was contradicted on by a Fox executive.
> 
> Seth Floppins let you down so badly that you're no longer coherent. It is funny though. Your two darlings are basically the two biggest failures as top faces ever. It's like everything you choose is destined to fail. Worlds smallest tears. I wonder if that's the only small thing connecting you three. 😢


Soon to be..










Failures. Most amount in his-story..........

:woo


----------



## The_It_Factor

Just checking in for my semi-annual “I can’t believe people still argue over what and who are a draw when NOTHING is a true draw anymore”..... see y’all in a few months. Maybe WWE will be on the Food Channel by then as New Jack predicted back in the 00’s

Edit: I really wish I could find that thread from, like, 2015 or something when some poster SWORE 2016 would be the next AE and people said I was just being a pessimist for saying they’re absolutely insane for thinking there would be a boom with the direction this company is going. It’s been a creative nose-dive for a decade or more


----------



## ClintDagger

The_It_Factor said:


> Just checking in for my semi-annual “I can’t believe people still argue over what and who are a draw when NOTHING is a true draw anymore”..... see y’all in a few months. Maybe WWE will be on the Food Channel by then as New Jack predicted back in the 00’s
> 
> Edit: I really wish I could find that thread from, like, 2015 or something when some poster SWORE 2016 would be the next AE and people said I was just being a pessimist for saying they’re absolutely insane for thinking there would be a boom with the direction this company is going. It’s been a creative nose-dive for a decade or more


It’s not about who draws anymore. I’ve been saying it for well over a year. It’s about who are the anti-draws.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Wow 2mils for a RTWM show, with most of the US forced to stay home and only watch TV. Lmao. Fans or no fans, that is a terrible number. This company is on it's way to being sold or stock price to bankruptcy


----------



## .christopher.

That's a good number, tbf.

If anyone else consistantly put on shit show after shit show, whilst simultaneously making it clear that they think their own fans are idiots for liking this shit, I don't think they'd still have two million viewers.

WWE's fans (what's left of them) are like a neglected dog. Sure, the owner doesn't give a fuck about you, but you still love them. For some reason.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> It's amazing. I can tell how much this eats you up inside.
> 
> Seth Floppins really did a number on you. This is what happens when you get so attached to failures.


Are you seriously trying to bait @Showstopper by pretending like his favorite is a "failure" (while repeating that to him on every post despite the fact that Seth Rollins is thriving with his new Messiah character), and are you seriously THIS stupid enough to STILL believe that any of the current talents are "tanking" the ratings? 

We're nearly 5 months removed from Seth Rollins losing the Universal title, and the ratings are STILL decreasing. He's neither the top babyface nor the top heel of the show now too.

BOTH of our world champions are part-timers, but yet the ratings are STILL terrible despite the fact that they are big stars who are supposed to be bringing back the casual audience apparently.

The biggest/hottest storyline on the show is Edge vs Randy Orton, but yet we've STILL reached the point where the third hour sunk below 2 million viewers (while the latter just happened to be featured in it).

Up until they started hosting empty arenas at the Performance Center, the Raw shows have mostly been solid/good since December. Plus, they've been either pushing fresher wrestlers or focusing on newer stars by giving them TV time like Drew McIntyre, Shayna Baszler, Aleister Black, Andrade, Angel Garza, Murphy, AOP, and the Street Profits; but none of this is STILL enough to prevent the viewership from declining even further.

This is without mentioning the fact that several MILLIONS of people are now stuck at home because of the outbreak with the Coronavirus, which pretty much tells you that most of those folks aren't even interested enough to watch WWE (which includes both Raw and Smackdown).

This is exactly what happens when you have a company that either pissed off their audience or lured millions of fans away by writing many mediocre shows over the past several years, cooling off dozens of wrestlers who were really over with the crowds in recent years, taking too long to finally push most of the fan favorites (which they finally did last year with Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Kofi Kingson, etc.) after investing so much on a rejected top babyface in previous years without changing his character, relying on the part-timers for the better part of the past decade, making plenty of terrible booking decisions, failing to write good storylines, and failing to improve the product of BOTH shows on a weekly basis over a several-month span (since winning back the lost audience WILL be a long-term process).

NONE of the individual talents are to blame since the ratings are out of their control at this point. It does NOT matter who they push at this point since you'll just see the same disappointing results in the end (outside of a short bump that'll inevitably return back to the mediocre status-quo with the low ratings). It's NOT an issue regarding the individual talents. This is a company-related problem (which SHOULD be obvious by now since bringing back the likes of Steve Austin, Goldberg, Undertaker, and Edge didn't really do anything to save the ratings) that needs a better creative direction with good booking decisions for the long-term.

Instead of continuing to be one of those delusional folks (who hopelessly blame the individual wrestlers for the low ratings in 2020) that keeps blaming the low numbers on Drew McIntyre and Seth Rollins while pretending like it's their fault, how about you actually wake the fuck up? This is on Vince's wrongdoings and on the poor management of this company.

Edit:

For the record, your nicknames (which is based on you pretending like guys like Seth Rollins "tanked" the ratings) aren't funny. They just make you sound desperate and pathetic.


----------



## FITZ

Mongstyle said:


> Fucking lol.
> 
> I called it. I said this year they could hit around 2 million during Mania season. And this ain't because of the pandemic. The writing was on the wall for weeks. I said it before, this was the first year ever that Raw did not get a post-Rumble bump and the first time ever Raw ratings have declined during Mania season compared to before.
> 
> They deserve it. This is what you get for putting a bland ass superstar like Drew in your top angle. How the fuck do you pick someone even worse than Rollins a year after Rollins helped tank the ratings in the first place?
> 
> They just made one stupid move after another.


I've been reading this identical post for like a decade. Take the current champion, the TV ratings go down, call them a failure compared to the last guy that got pushed. The ratings have been on a steady decline for like 18 years now.


----------



## ClintDagger

DammitChrist said:


> Are you seriously trying to bait @Showstopper by pretending like his favorite is a "failure" (while repeating that to him on every post despite the fact that Seth Rollins is thriving with his new Messiah character), and are you seriously THIS stupid enough to STILL believe that any of the current talents are "tanking" the ratings?
> 
> We're nearly 5 months removed from Seth Rollins losing the Universal title, and the ratings are STILL decreasing. He's neither the top babyface nor the top heel of the show now too.
> 
> BOTH of our world champions are part-timers, but yet the ratings are STILL terrible despite the fact that they are big stars who are supposed to be bringing back the casual audience apparently.
> 
> The biggest/hottest storyline on the show is Edge vs Randy Orton, but yet we've STILL reached the point where the third hour sunk below 2 million viewers (while the latter just happened to be featured in it).
> 
> Up until they started hosting empty arenas at the Performance Center, the Raw shows have mostly been solid/good since December. Plus, they've been either pushing fresher wrestlers or focusing on newer stars by giving them TV time like Drew McIntyre, Shayna Baszler, Aleister Black, Andrade, Angel Garza, Murphy, AOP, and the Street Profits; but none of this is STILL enough to prevent the viewership from declining even further.
> 
> This is without mentioning the fact that several MILLIONS of people are now stuck at home because of the outbreak with the Coronavirus, which pretty much tells you that most of those folks aren't even interested enough to watch WWE (which includes both Raw and Smackdown).
> 
> This is exactly what happens when you have a company that either pissed off their audience or lured millions of fans away by writing many mediocre shows over the past several years, cooling off dozens of wrestlers who were really over with the crowds in recent years, taking too long to finally push most of the fan favorites (which they finally did last year with Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Kofi Kingson, etc.) after investing so much on a rejected top babyface in previous years without changing his character, relying on the part-timers for the better part of the past decade, making plenty of terrible booking decisions, failing to write good storylines, and failing to improve the product of BOTH shows on a weekly basis over a several-month span (since winning back the lost audience WILL be a long-term process).
> 
> NONE of the individual talents are to blame since the ratings are out of their control at this point. It does NOT matter who they push at this point since you'll just see the same disappointing results in the end (outside of a short bump that'll inevitably return back to the mediocre status-quo with the low ratings). It's NOT an issue regarding the individual talents. This is a company-related problem (which SHOULD be obvious by now since bringing back the likes of Steve Austin, Goldberg, Undertaker, and Edge didn't really do anything to save the ratings) that needs a better creative direction with good booking decisions for the long-term.
> 
> Instead of continuing to be one of those delusional folks (who hopelessly blame the individual wrestlers for the low ratings in 2020) that keeps blaming the low numbers on Drew McIntyre and Seth Rollins while pretending like it's their fault, how about you actually wake the fuck up? This is on Vince's wrongdoings and on the poor management of this company.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, your nicknames (which is based on you pretending like guys like Seth Rollins "tanked" the ratings) aren't funny. They just make you sound desperate and pathetic.


Come on, no one is thriving.



FITZ said:


> I've been reading this identical post for like a decade. Take the current champion, the TV ratings go down, call them a failure compared to the last guy that got pushed. The ratings have been on a steady decline for like 18 years now.


To be fair, there have been certain champions who have fared better than others and there have been times when the ratings ticked up a bit. Some people on top hurt the product more than others.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

They made a few mistakes with Seth Rollins after his WM 35 win over Brock Lesnar:

1. What happened to the Open Challenges for the Universal Championship? Considering WWE's obsession with taking commercials for long matches, you would think they would have had many Seth title defenses on RAW. That was his biggest driving force in wanting to take the title off Brock.

2. Working with Becky Lynch. They made him look like a cuck. End of story.

3. Not keeping Roman Reigns on RAW. Seth's 2019 run after WM would've went a lot better if Reigns stayed on RAW. They should've kept Reigns on RAW until the debut on FOX. By that time fans had already cooled on Seth. If Reigns stayed on RAW during that duration (April 2019-Early October 2019) fans would've thought that Seth was just holding the Universal Championship to eventually drop it to Reigns.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> They made a few mistakes with Seth Rollins after his WM 35 win over Brock Lesnar:
> 
> 1. What happened to the Open Challenges for the Universal Championship? Considering WWE's obsession with taking commercials for long matches, you would think they would have had many Seth title defenses on RAW. That was his biggest driving force in wanting to take the title off Brock.
> 
> 2. Working with Becky Lynch. They made him look like a cuck. End of story.
> 
> 3. Not keeping Roman Reigns on RAW. Seth's 2019 run after WM would've went a lot better if Reigns stayed on RAW. They should've kept Reigns on RAW until the debut on FOX. By that time fans had already cooled on Seth. If Reigns stayed on RAW during that duration (April 2019-Early October 2019) fans would've thought that Seth was just holding the Universal Championship to eventually drop it to Reigns.


Seperating Rollins and Reigns is the best thing that ever happened to Rollins. He now has the best character in the company, and is one of the few guys WITH an actual character.

Doing the open challenge people would've just complained that they have nothing more creative to do with their world champion. The Becky storyline was dumb, and having them work with Corbin and Lacey for so long in a pointless storyline was stupid. At least it wasn't as long or pointless as the Corbin/Reigns storyline though, woof. That might be the worst storyline in WWE history.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

I disagree. Keeping Reigns on RAW would've helped Rollins. They wouldn't have had to hit to the reset button and done Seth/Brock 2 at Summerslam. That would've been Seth vs. Reigns at Summerslam instead — with a cash in attempt from someone other than Brock OR Seth pinning Reigns clean.


----------



## .christopher.

FITZ said:


> I've been reading this identical post for like a decade. Take the current champion, the TV ratings go down, call them a failure compared to the last guy that got pushed. The ratings have been on a steady decline for like 18 years now.


You're right, and it coincides with WWE having no competition, thus not giving a fuck about what the fans want.

Oh, you don't want HHH, Cena, Reigns, etc burying everyone in sight? Well, we don't give a fuck. With WCW gone we'll do as we please.

If WCW had never existed, Steve Austin would've never got his push as he wasn't a chosen one. On the opposite end, if WCW had maintained being a threat, the WWE wouldve never stuck with the likes of HHH, Cena, Reigns, Becky, being the faces of the company either as them being the focal point has killed off millions of fans.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ace said:


> LMFAO.
> 
> 2m, they are so fucked post WM.
> 
> Need to remember this is on the RTWM AND more people are watching TV, they have no competition.


The only thing WWE has going for post mania is no NBA playoffs to go against. But you said it, they have no competition (no other live sports on), and most of the country is being forced to stay in their homes where TV is the only thing to do, and they draw this type of rating. This is a catastrophicly bad rating. I dont think people understand how bad 2.00 mils is. What are they going to do during MNF? 1.5mils?


FITZ said:


> I've been reading this identical post for like a decade. Take the current champion, the TV ratings go down, call them a failure compared to the last guy that got pushed. The ratings have been on a steady decline for like 18 years now.


It’s not been a steady decline tho. It took off when Reigns was champion. Got a lot worse with Rollins. And is now accelerating downward .


----------



## Not Lying

That third hour...Asuka vs Charlotte from WM 34 wasn't gona keep people watching just randomly.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Regarding the ratings...

It really gets back to Eric Bischoff's philosophy for Nitro: *SARSA

S*TORYLINE
*A*NTICIPATION
*R*EALITY
*S*URPRISE
*A*CTION

Let's go back over 10 years ago for a storyline WWE did the night after No Mercy 2007:

*S*TORYLINE — Vince announces that the entire roster must shake the hand of the new WWE Champion, Randy Orton.
*A*NTICIPATION — The announcers (JR) continue to build up to this throughout the night 
*R*EALITY — They interview John Cena about his surgery; he says he will come face to face with Orton
*S*URPRISE — The return of Shawn Michaels in the final segment of the night
*A*CTION — HBK superkicks Orton to end the show


----------



## Rozzop

Have you seen the state of the world the last few weeks? Rightly or wrongly people are worried and probably have the news on a lot of the time and the last thing they are thinking about is a wrestling show. 

Secondly. Have you seen the state of the shows? Two hours of replays from matches years ago followed by black kicked some jobber in the face in an empty arena. Riveting tv. These are clearly not proper raws. 

Surprised they are still doing 2 million. They wont be if this continues. The question is can they get the viewers back when things go back to normal?


----------



## kingfrass44

The Boy Wonder said:


> Regarding the ratings...
> 
> It really gets back to Eric Bischoff's philosophy for Nitro: *SARSA
> 
> S*TORYLINE
> *A*NTICIPATION
> *R*EALITY
> *S*URPRISE
> *A*CTION
> 
> Let's go back over 10 years ago for a storyline WWE did the night after No Mercy 2007:
> 
> *S*TORYLINE — Vince announces that the entire roster must shake the hand of the new WWE Champion, Randy Orton.
> *A*NTICIPATION — The announcers (JR) continue to build up to this throughout the night
> *R*EALITY — They interview John Cena about his surgery; he says he will come face to face with Orton
> *S*URPRISE — The return of Shawn Michaels in the final segment of the night
> *A*CTION — HBK superkicks Orton to end the show


lol


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Rozzop said:


> Surprised they are still doing 2 million. They wont be if this continues. The question is can they get the viewers back when things go back to normal?


Only if they have a big summer angle planned. They need to do something that hooks the audience. One idea would be to have the Undisputed Era debut on RAW by attacking Drew McIntyre.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.139M [20th] | 0.630D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.986M [25th] | 0.610D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.646M [36th] | 0.510D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.924M | 0.583D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.153M | - 7.15% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.17% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.340M | - 17.12% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 16.39% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.493M | - 23.05% ]
[ - 0.120D | - 19.05% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.082M | - 4.09% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.89% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.715M | - 27.09% ]
[ - 0.334D | - 36.42% ]*


----------



## SPCDRI

1.64 million for a third hour on a go-home show for WM. That has to be very close to all-time worst, right?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Wtf. Jeez


----------



## Ace

LMFAO, this is the go home show for WM.

No excuses. That is pitiful. 

The numbers are going to become comical come post WM once the geeks are left to carry the show.


----------



## The XL 2

WWE is fucked. 1.9 mil for the go home Raw for Wrestlemania with literally nothing else on. And I don't want to hear the empty arena excuse, it hasn't hurt AEW. I realistically don't know what's going to happen to WWE within 5 years, they're literally bleeding out all of their audience


----------



## Randy Lahey

lmao....you get the rating you deserve when you push geeks, women's wrestling, work rate, and g rated nonsense. None of that has ever drawn before. And it never will in the future. Can't wait to see Showstopper and Validreasoning defend this rating. 

I'm wondering how low WWE ratings have to get before even their most ardent defenders say the show is terrible, the drop in viewership is terrible, and if changes aren't made that WWE will be off Cable TV in the next 5 years and relagated to network. Bc that's where this is headed. WWE is a niche product getting smaller and smaller.


----------



## RainmakerV2

I know their hands might be tied but I tune out as soon as they start showing old matches, especially when the commercial breaks stretch a 20 minute match to 45. Like no thank you.


----------



## Erramayhem89

WWE is done. The sad thing is it just doesn't work these days. Wrestling isn't in style or cool anymore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That's bad. Really bad.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

No defending that. That's an awful number, especially that third hour. Just glad Seth wasn't in the third hour. The top 3 storylines (2 of them including the top 2 titles for the men and women) (Drew/Brock, Becky/Shayna, and Edge/Orton) people just aren't buying into. And I was told last year's Road to WM with Seth feuding with Brock was going to be the worst ever and a 'bigger' guy going up against Brock would draw more, LOL. Didn't Brock/Heyman's promo main event last night? Yikes. Good luck to Drew and whoever the Women's Champion is after WM.


----------



## Chan Hung

Hate to say this, but good. They deserve it. Putting on constant replays of long matches that most have likely seen give noone a reason to stay tuned. Least AEW is keeping it fresh.


----------



## Chan Hung

SPCDRI said:


> 1.64 million for a third hour on a go-home show for WM. That has to be very close to all-time worst, right?


Yep only like 750,000 more people seeing RAW more than AEW, right before Mania


----------



## Dr. Jones

Years and years of Vince compounding awful decisions with even worse ones has left them nowhere to go but down.

There is NO interest in the product. The brand isn't drawing. The "stars" aren't drawing.

Bringing in someone like Rob Gronkowski is a microcosm of how far from the the mark they are. "Interest in the company is down? I got it! Let's bring in an ex football player frat boy and have him dance on TV like a jackass!" That'll get em!


----------



## Rozzop

Okay, there are a tonne of variables for such a low number but it does show that people are not gonna sit through a 3 hour show and wait to listen to Heyman cut the exact same promo he has cut for the last 6 years. 

6 years......

I mean The Rock debuted, went through a number of different alterations of his character, invented different catchprases, then went off to Hollywood in 6 years. 

You got peak Austin from 96 to 02 which included heel turns, face turns, evolution of his character. 

In fact if you switched on Summerslam 01, a lot on the roster were slightly tweaked characters from Royal Rumble 01, let alone Royal Rumble 95.

Yet you have Heyman delivering his same old schtick for years and years. 

One word - boring

We've heard it all before.

And its not just a Heyman problem. Reigns is stuck in 2014 forever. Rollins has a new nickname but he is still the same guy he has always been. Becky has run through the entire womens division and her act is beyond stale. 

WWE waa different in 01 than it was in 99. It was different in 96 to what it was in 93. It was different in 2005 to what it was in 2002. They constantly kept things fresh. 

Yet now its been stuck in a same old same old for what seems like more of a decade now. 

Heymans an all time great on the mic. Give me something new. Stop sleepwalking through the same script that ive heard for more or less 6 years.


----------



## Frost99

How Vince took the ratings to the Network.......











How EVERYONE else has been feeling for quite awhile.......


----------



## Seafort

RainmakerV2 said:


> I know their hands might be tied but I tune out as soon as they start showing old matches, especially when the commercial breaks stretch a 20 minute match to 45. Like no thank you.


Imagine if they re-ran the gauntlet match that Seth was in. With proper commercials, they could stretch that out to last the entire show.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I doubt we will see a regular show until mid-late May at the soonest. After the first week we have seen a drop each week. Maybe we see a bump next week but I doubt it will last past next week.


----------



## Seafort

Randy Lahey said:


> lmao....you get the rating you deserve when you push geeks, women's wrestling, work rate, and g rated nonsense. None of that has ever drawn before. And it never will in the future. Can't wait to see Showstopper and Validreasoning defend this rating.
> 
> I'm wondering how low WWE ratings have to get before even their most ardent defenders say the show is terrible, the drop in viewership is terrible, and if changes aren't made that WWE will be off Cable TV in the next 5 years and relagated to network. Bc that's where this is headed. WWE is a niche product getting smaller and smaller.


It's not headed there. It's headed towards an acquisition by Disney or ESPN. And that will bring a different set of challenges - who would a Disney or ESPN place in charge of an acquired WWE? Would it be a HHH? Or would it a modern-day Jim Herd?


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> It's not headed there. It's headed towards an acquisition by Disney or ESPN. And that will bring a different set of challenges - who would a Disney or ESPN place in charge of an acquired WWE? Would it be a HHH? Or would it a modern-day Jim Herd?


A few months ago I would have agreed. But the pigheaded obsession with holding WrestleMania 36 shows Vince will always be old school carny, despite the fact he hates wrasslin. He'll pull the company back into the high school gym/regional promotion it was in 1970 rather than make sensible decisions or lose that chairman role. Hell, he nearly achieved rock bottom 25 years ago.


----------



## Seafort

Rozzop said:


> Okay, there are a tonne of variables for such a low number but it does show that people are not gonna sit through a 3 hour show and wait to listen to Heyman cut the exact same promo he has cut for the last 6 years.
> 
> 6 years......
> 
> I mean The Rock debuted, went through a number of different alterations of his character, invented different catchprases, then went off to Hollywood in 6 years.
> 
> You got peak Austin from 96 to 02 which included heel turns, face turns, evolution of his character.
> 
> In fact if you switched on Summerslam 01, a lot on the roster were slightly tweaked characters from Royal Rumble 01, let alone Royal Rumble 95.
> 
> Yet you have Heyman delivering his same old schtick for years and years.
> 
> One word - boring
> 
> We've heard it all before.
> 
> And its not just a Heyman problem. Reigns is stuck in 2014 forever. Rollins has a new nickname but he is still the same guy he has always been. Becky has run through the entire womens division and her act is beyond stale.
> 
> WWE waa different in 01 than it was in 99. It was different in 96 to what it was in 93. It was different in 2005 to what it was in 2002. They constantly kept things fresh.
> 
> Yet now its been stuck in a same old same old for what seems like more of a decade now.
> 
> Heymans an all time great on the mic. Give me something new. Stop sleepwalking through the same script that ive heard for more or less 6 years.


Good point. Let's do 5 year increments:

*Upper Tier Stars:*
1990: Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Randy Savage, Undertaker, Piper, LOD, British Bulldog, Big Bossman, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Jim Duggan
1995: Undertaker, British Bulldog, *Brett Hart, Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Razor Ramon, Owen Hart, Lex Luger, HHH, Yokozuna, Mable*
2000: Undertaker, HHH, *Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Big Show, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, New Age Outlaws, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kane*
2005: Undertaker, HHH, Big Show, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kane, *Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, JBL, Rey Misterio Jr., Edge*
2010: Undertaker, HHH, Big Show, Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, Kane, Misterio Jr., Edge,* CM Punk, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Del Rio*
2015: Undertaker, HHH, Big Show, Chris Jericho, John Cena, Randy Orton, Kane, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, *Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt, KO, Lesnar*
2020: Undertaker, HHH, John Cena, Randy Orton, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, Brock Lesnar, *Edge, Bobby Lashley, Braun Strowman, Misterio Jr*


----------



## Randy Lahey

The 1.64 is the lowest 3rd hour of all time including holiday shows.


----------



## Dr. Jones

It's pretty clear that people were willing to give them a shot to see how they would do with the whole empty arena thing. After seeing just how bad of a job they're doing with it, they're bailing.

The last thing people would see before seeing Wrestlemania got a 1.64. Their biggest show of the year is FREE if you sign up for the network. This just tells me that people are not interested in WM at all


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

WWE really had a chance to really do something different but I dont think anyone is surprised they didn't. 

Instead that they push to do Wresltemania anyways knowing they could not pull it off with the new scenario. wwe in a nutshell.


----------



## ClintDagger

They showed the worst WM main event of all time very early in the show. It basically told viewers they weren’t putting any effort into the show. Of course they did an all time worst number.


----------



## Y2K23

They deserve it by putting the absolute worst "wrestling" programming on tv. Thank God for Aew


----------



## MoxAsylum

People are not interested in Becky Cringe, boring Rollins, a cosplay Steve Austin, boring Aleister Black, boring McIntyre. The only worthwhile things on RAW is Undertaker, AJ Styles, Street profits and Edge and Orton


----------



## DammitChrist

It's interesting how the ratings continue to get terribly worse no matter who you push on top and no matter what's worthwhile on the show.

It's almost like the company needs to sort its shit together with its management and 'creativity.'


----------



## The_It_Factor

So much for all the posters saying, “empty arena is going to be cool and different! I’m excited for an empty arena Mania!”


----------



## llj

Imagine being one of the few programs offering new content right now and you have millions of people wanting a distraction from the outside world and you can't offer a program they should be willing to ge into


----------



## llj

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I doubt we will see a regular show until mid-late May at the soonest. After the first week we have seen a drop each week. Maybe we see a bump next week but I doubt it will last past next week.


May is exceedingly optimistic, given many sports leagues are thinking June at the earliest. Yes Vince will try to run shows, but crowdless shows specifically will go on for most of the rest of the year. This pandemic won't be contained in 2 months, especially not in the US.

The whole year is a complete write-off imo. Anyone who gets a push or title reign during this time I feel bad for.


----------



## WindPhoenix

It feels like they don't want to do anything too big or their plans fell through because of the virus. Most of the Raw mania feuds feel unimportant. Some of the stories are just bad and some are non-existent.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> May is exceedingly optimistic, given many sports leagues are thinking June at the earliest. Yes Vince will try to run shows, but crowdless shows specifically will go on for most of the rest of the year. This pandemic won't be contained in 2 months, especially not in the US.
> 
> The whole year is a complete write-off imo. Anyone who gets a push or title reign during this time I feel bad for.


Until we don't have treatment or/and a vaccin we will not come back to the life we had before the start of this pandemic.

This is for every country in the world.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> Until we don't have treatment or/and a vaccin we will not come back to the life we had before the start of this pandemic.
> 
> This is for every country in the world.


Even when we get back to "normal", many companies will be hurt bad by this layoff. WWE may be one of them, though their saudi and fox deals may still get them through for now.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*Which WWE RAW Segment Scored The Lowest Quarter Hour Rating In Show History?*
*
The Brock Lesnar - Paul Heyman that closed the show scored 1.574 million viewers and a 0.9 rating, which is the lowest quarter rating in show history. Lesnar segments are usually the highest rated of the show.

Below is the quarter hour breakdown of the show, courtesy of The Observer.

* Undertaker promo: 2,233,000 viewers.

* WrestleMania 35 Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Ronda Rousey match: 2,213,000 (-20,000 viewers, so the taped match had the smallest drop on the show)

* Becky Lynch promo with Shayna Baszler angle / Aleister Black vs. Jason Cade: 2,173,000 (-40,000)

* Kevin Owens & Street Profits vs. Seth Rollins & Angel Garza & Austin Theory match: 1,948,000 (-225,000, the biggest drop on the show).

* Kevin Owens promo / Edge vs. Randy Orton video package: 1,868,000 (-80,000 viewers)

* Edge promo / Asuka vs. Kayden Carter: 1,813,000 (-55,000 viewers)

* Survivor Series 2019 Brock Lesnar vs. Rey Mysterio match: 1,599,000 (-214,000)

* Brock Lesnar - Paul Heyman promo: 1,574,000 (-25,000)

Which WWE RAW Segment Scored The Lowest Quarter Hour Rating In Show History? - Wrestling Inc.*


----------



## Fearless Viper

"News shows dominated cable, with RAW coming in at #31 for the night. However, if you take out the news shows, it was still the most watched programming on cable. In 18-49, the first two hours were only behind two episodes of _Love & Hip Hop_, while the third hour was #7 in 18-49."


----------



## holy

No ratings today?


----------



## Ace

I'll be shocked if that 3hr doesn't bomb.

Black-Apollo went on forever.


----------



## llj

From what I saw WM was basically a house show that maintained the status quo. Expect ratings to further decline. How low can they go? Their decline is the most entertaining thing about the WWE these days.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.311M [20th] | 0.780D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.063M [29th] | 0.690D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.925M [33rd] | 0.640D [6th]

3V | 3D: 2.100M | 0.703D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.248M | - 10.73% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 11.54% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.138M | - 6.69% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 7.25% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.386M | - 16.70% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 17.95% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.176M | + 9.15% ]
[ + 0.120D | + 20.58% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.824M | - 28.18% ]
[ - 0.380D | - 35.09% ]*


----------



## llj

DAT POST MANIA BUMP HOOH HAH LMAO

Keep doing what you're doing Vince. I can't wait to see the numbers continue to tank over the summer. Another prediction: all the viewers they have and will lose during this pandemic won't come back.

Nobody should be proud of any wrestler getting pushed right now.


----------



## rbl85

2.1 the night after Wrestlemania…...


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats better than i thought tbh.


----------



## Erramayhem89

It will go below 2 now that Mcyntire is champ


----------



## troyag93

How did the second hour to the third hour not drop more? Second hour was jobber city


----------



## Erik.

Horrendous really but news is dominating as you'd expect. Can't really judge ratings at all in this climate.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I hope people keep the same energy for the Wednesday night shows since they just did the worst numbers they ever did just last week.

Also, LOL at the people who said "big" guys will draw more. As the few folks on here with brains have been saying for awhile now, they're all in the same boat these days.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Erramayhem89 said:


> It will go below 2 now that Mcyntire is champ


Facts


----------



## DaSlacker

troyag93 said:


> How did the second hour to the third hour not drop more? Second hour was jobber city


I watched the third hour to see what happened after the 'Mania main event. Then kept watching because I thought Vince is senile enough to put the title on an ageing Big Show.

I'm calling it now. Raw will be down to 1.5 million viewers by the time fans are allowed back in. Covid-19 has speeded up the decline in a huge way.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I figured it would bump a little but I think it will continue to drop.


----------



## RapShepard

Showstopper said:


> I hope people keep the same energy for the Wednesday night shows since they just did the worst numbers they ever did just last week.
> 
> Also, LOL at the people who said "big" guys will draw more. As the few folks on here with brains have been saying for awhile now, they're all in the same boat these days.


Well that same energy certainly won't be kept lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RapShepard said:


> Well that same energy certainly won't be kept lol


Probably not despite the fact that Raw's lowest 3rd hour ever last week did a MILLION more viewers than either show last Wednesday.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

You fools dissing raw u do realize aew’s flagship show could not even break 700 last week right?


----------



## troyag93

Tk Adeyemi said:


> You fools dissing raw u do realize aew’s flagship show could not even break 700 last week right?


Comparing a 27 Year Old Show to a show that doesn’t have 27 episodes isn’t the same.


----------



## DaSlacker

In fairness Wednesday has never been a strong wrestling night and both NXT/AEW have head to head competition.


----------



## Y2K23

It shows how highly people think of AEW by directly comparing the ratings between them and WWE programming, completely ignoring that AEW is a brand new promotion


----------



## Randy Lahey

2.1 mils for what traditionally is their highest rated show of the year is horrendous.

WWE will never get their viewers back that have left. Vince should have ran reruns of the Attitude Era until the fans are back for the shows.

And WWE marks....please stop with the “Not that bad of number”.....It’s a show that at worst only a few years ago would pop 4 mils for the post WM show. They’ve lost 50% of their viewers. Their post WM show did worse than when they go up against MNF. 

Again, I ask...how long will it take for the few remaining WWE marks to surrender.



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *Y-Y:
> [ - 0.824M | - 28.18% ]
> [ - 0.380D | - 35.09% ]*


Imagine losing 35% of your audience. In a year. 

Imagine a world where there’s no other live original programming to compete against, and you still lose 35% of your audience. 

“But more people are watching the news”.

That makes it even more😂. You got Raw doing 2.1 mils for a post WM show, and NXT charts in at #74. USA should cancel wrestling and have their own news shows at this rate.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its not a 2.1 million average viewership that was that way because people were really interested in Wrestlemania and the company and then a really bad show turned 2 or 3 million people off. I think the highs are as concerning as the lows. 2.3 million for the first hour and they didn't even maintain that. It started off hundreds of thousands of viewers lower than the all time low and lowered from there. There's a big lack of interest. I know coronavirus is fucking everything up, but you'd think there'd at least be some strong initial viewership to see what happened at WM.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Marks will be marks. Raw was on top 5 demo wise. It seems you dorks keeps underestimating the impact of the news with this pandemic shit.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

We really shouldn’t be taking current ratings so seriously, especially during this time.


----------



## Not Lying

Fearless Viper said:


> Marks will be marks. Raw was on top 5 demo wise. It seems you dorks keeps underestimating the impact of the news with this pandemic shit.


People here are gona go insane in a couple of years when WWE signs a $300m/a year TV deal


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> People here are gona go insane in a couple of years when WWE signs a $300m/a year TV deal


You'll be watching WWE Raw on the network. Their days of mega tv deals are done.


----------



## BlissLynch

WWE Raw Ratings Rise to 2.1M Viewers for Post-WrestleMania 36 Show


WWE saw a ratings increase for Monday's post-WrestleMania episode of Raw. According to Dave Meltzer of Wrestling Observer, Monday's show received an average of 2.10 million viewers for the three-hour broadcast on USA Network...




bleacherreport.com





Interesting....


----------



## xio8ups

2.1 million viewers and people are home cause of the virus lolol terrible ratings.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Who cares. The WWE is trash, just like Impact, NxT and AEW are trash. Most of the WWE is women's wrestling garbage with a bunch of ugly and fat divas, lame kiddy shit like Otis, New Day, or goofballs like The Miz and The Fiend. Most of the current roster also lacks personality and downright sucks, aka Braun, Ricochet, those Hispanic wrestlers(all of them), Baron Corbin. The rest are overrated midcarders like Bland Rollins and Fatty Owens, or 180 pound cruiserweights.

99% of the WWE is complete garbage, including NxT. The ratings should actually be worse, they should be getting 1M viewers or fewer, not 2M. Only idiots watch Raw, Smackdown, NxT or AEW.

Wrestling is dead.

The WWE is trash anyway, just like NxT and AEW. Raw is one of the most atrociously boring shows and I pity the idiots who waste 3 hours or even 45 minutes on these Trash youtube clips from Raw. 2M idiots, apparently. They shouldn't even be getting 500K viewers, judging by the product.


----------



## Pippen94

Deathiscoming said:


> Who cares. The WWE is trash, just like Impact, NxT and AEW are trash. Most of the WWE is women's wrestling garbage with a bunch of ugly and fat divas, lame kiddy shit like Otis, New Day, or goofballs like The Miz and The Fiend. Most of the current roster also lacks personality and downright sucks, aka Braun, Ricochet, those Hispanic wrestlers(all of them), Baron Corbin. The rest are overrated midcarders like Bland Rollins and Fatty Owens, or 180 pound cruiserweights.
> 
> 99% of the WWE is complete garbage, including NxT. The ratings should actually be worse, they should be getting 1M viewers or fewer, not 2M. Only idiots watch Raw, Smackdown, NxT or AEW.
> 
> Wrestling is dead.


Yet you still visit wrestling forums


----------



## Fearless Viper

Corona...


----------



## Deathiscoming

Pippen94 said:


> Yet you still visit wrestling forums


Yes, Death can visit anyone, any place, any time, no exceptions, including wrestling forum.


----------



## Cooper09

LOL, people are being forced to stay indoors and yet nobody still wants to watch WWE 😂


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

And yet still one of the worst post-WM numbers ever


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.994M [27th] | 0.590D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.913M [31st] | 0.560D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.832M [33rd] | 0.520D [10th]

3V | 3D: 1.913M | 0.557D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.081M | - 4.06% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.08% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.081M | - 4.23% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.14% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.162M | - 8.12% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 11.86% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.187M | - 8.90% ]
[ - 0.103D | - 20.77% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.752M | - 28.22% ]
[ - 0.350D | - 38.59% ]*


----------



## SPCDRI

RED ALERT. RED ALERT. RED ALERT.
ALL HOURS OF A 3 HOUR RAW ARE BELOW 2 MILLION TOTAL VIEWERS
ALL HOURS OF A 3 HOUR RAW ARE BELOW 2 MILLION TOTAL VIEWERS


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Gotta feel bad for the Champions these days. Woof.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Meanwhile, AEW is getting around 25% of this number. Woof.


----------



## SPCDRI

RAW April 15th, 2019; 
Hour One - 2.760m 
Hour Two - 2.690m 
Hour Three - 2.546m 
Overall Average - 2.665m 

RAW April 14th, 2020;
Hour One - 1.994m 
Hour Two - 1.913m 
Hour Three - 1.832m 
Overall Average - 1.913m 
Viewership down 28.2% year over year.
Breakdown by demographic year over year; 
Over-50 - down 18.7% 
18-49 - down 38.5% 
18-34 - down 57.1%


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> Meanwhile, AEW is getting around 25% of this number. Woof.


David why do you talk about AEW ?


----------



## Ace

Fuck that is terrible.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> David why do you talk about AEW ?


Who's David?


----------



## Frost99

While I appreciate ANY entertainer willing or in this case when they'r employer advises their "importance" to society that they'll risk it to entertain they have my respect, BUT with a CAPTIVE audience who's looking for NEW content and they get these numbers post PC-A-MAINA....welp yeah.....


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

"Big guys" draw.

Uh huh.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250159211620769795


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> Who's David?


A guy on twitter named David wrote the exacte same post than you.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> A guy on twitter named David wrote the exacte same post than you.


So you call me some other guy's name? Kind of wish that was my name so I can report you for giving away personal information which is against the rules. Lucky for you that isn't me, though.


----------



## chronoxiong

No star power on the show. We had a lot of matches but where was the star power??? Yikes at that rating though.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> So you call me some other guy's name? Kind of wish that was my name so I can report you for giving away personal information which is against the rules. Lucky for you that isn't me, though.


Cry me a river.

I thought that it was funny that a guy on twitter wrote the same post than you (word for word) in response to a tweet announcing the ratings of RAW.
It's pretty rare to see that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> Cry me a river.
> 
> I thought that it was funny that a guy on twitter wrote the same post than you (word for word) in response to a tweet announcing the ratings of RAW.
> It's pretty rare to see that.


You're the only one crying. Nothing new there.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> Meanwhile, AEW is getting around 25% of this number. Woof.


I'm not sure whether that speaks more about the poor state of the wrestling business or more the strength of 'the brand'


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> You're the only one crying. Nothing new there.


You're the one speaking of AEW on a RAW ratings thread when nobody posted about AEW.

I don't see the utility of doing that except of course if you're goal is to start a "fight" between AEW fans and WWE fans.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its pathetic copeposting, all it is.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Live show, eh?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> You're the one speaking of AEW on a RAW ratings thread when nobody posted about AEW.
> 
> I don't see the utility of doing that except of course if you're goal is to start a "fight" between AEW fans and WWE fans.


What I post, is none of your business, pal. I sure hope you police the other ratings threads (including the AEW one, I'm sure no one talks about WWE ratings on that thread, right?) like you're attempting to do here.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SPCDRI said:


> Its pathetic copeposting, all it is.


I sure hope you keep it honest with all of the other wrestling shows doing terribly, as well. Something tells me you aren't, though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

And the absolute irony of an AEW mark talking about 'cope posting' when it comes to ratings.

[email protected]!!!!


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> What I post, is none of your business, pal. I sure hope you police the other ratings threads (including the AEW one, I'm sure no one talks about WWE ratings on that thread, right?) like you're attempting to do here.


Some talk about NXT but a rarely see something about RAW or SDL.


----------



## ste1592

DaSlacker said:


> I'm not sure whether that speaks more about the poor state of the wrestling business or more the strength of 'the brand'


I would say both can be true at the same time.

Wrestling is something that rarely, if ever, crosses the mind of most people, and whenever it does they immediately associate it with WWE.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Bad ratings but they should be worse.

I love how in the ratings threads whether Raw or Dynamite AEW gets ripped by the "usual suspects". Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Erramayhem89

WWE is done. It just doesn't work anymore.


----------



## troyag93

I am not surprised about the number overall. What I am surprised with is how are the hours not dropping more!?

In the first hour it was Asuka vs Ruby and Aleister Black vs Local Jobber. They announced that Sarah Logan will start the second hour. How isn’t that a click to the remote!?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Cry me a river. There are people who post here to laugh about the ratings and then are nowhere to be found when AEW does 5 or 600K, a fraction of Raw and SD.

And I'm glad WWE ratings are shit. Vince is a prick to be running shows right now and no one I care about is Champion. _BUT_ to laugh about WWE ratings (especially Raw or SD) and then to be nowhere to be found when AEW or NXT ratings come out is laughable.


----------



## Dizzie

I think both wwe and aew will have a fight on their hands to recapture fans back when things become normal.


----------



## DaSlacker

troyag93 said:


> I am not surprised about the number overall. What I am surprised with is how are the hours not dropping more!?
> 
> In the first hour it was Asuka vs Ruby and Aleister Black vs Local Jobber. They announced that Sarah Logan will start the second hour. How isn’t that a click to the remote!?


Monday is traditionally wrestling night and nothing else on


----------



## Fearless Viper

Ratings means shit these days you dorks.


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.994M [27th] | 0.590D [3rd]
> V2 | D2: 1.913M [31st] | 0.560D [5th]
> V3 | D3: 1.832M [33rd] | 0.520D [10th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.913M | 0.557D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.081M | - 4.06% ]
> [ - 0.030D | - 5.08% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.081M | - 4.23% ]
> [ - 0.040D | - 7.14% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.162M | - 8.12% ]
> [ - 0.070D | - 11.86% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ - 0.187M | - 8.90% ]
> [ - 0.103D | - 20.77% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Y-Y:
> [ - 0.752M | - 28.22% ]
> [ - 0.350D | - 38.59% ]*


lmao.....sub 2mils all 3 hours. No competition. Can't wait to see how they do against MNF.


----------



## MoxAsylum

You mean boring Drew, Seth, Andrade and Becky aren’t draws ? I’m shocked


----------



## Randy Lahey

SPCDRI said:


> Breakdown by demographic year over year;
> Over-50 - down 18.7%
> 18-49 - down 38.5%
> *18-34 - down 57.1%*


WWE is a dying company with no future whatsoever. None.


----------



## Randy Lahey

InexorableJourney said:


> Live show, eh?


The only other live show that WWE was competing against, was The Voice on NBC. The Voice drew 9.8 million viewers. People are watching TV. Lots of people. They aren't watching wrestling though.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> WWE is a dying company with no future whatsoever. None.


Definitely doesn't look promising considering wrestling and Vince's WWE in particular prospered off hooking in a new generation of kids.

Certainly correlates with house shows rarely being profitable, the ageing audience at Raw and SmackDown, 2K sales down every year, adults buying the action figures etc


----------



## ClintDagger

It felt like it was a showcase for the women’s division so I’m not surprised the ratings were even worse than usual. Next week will be a showcase of the men’s division so it will be interesting to see how the numbers compare.


----------



## llj

I think this is the new norm. Even when crowds come back.


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> I think this is the new norm. Even when crowds come back.


I agree. I think so many fans were on the fence and getting those fans back will be very difficult.


----------



## MoxAsylum

rbl85 said:


> You're the one speaking of AEW on a RAW ratings thread when nobody posted about AEW.
> 
> I don't see the utility of doing that except of course if you're goal is to start a "fight" between AEW fans and WWE fans.


AEW fans are salty, at least Vince can get picked to help out the economy


----------



## Dr. Jones

They are paying the price for keeping Cena on top forever, relentlessly pushing the Shield guys, and letting Brock hold the show hostage.

They have nothing. No one is worth a shit. Nothing matters. Nothing garners interest. What the hell are they going to dangle in front of people's faces once things go back to normal?


----------



## Chan Hung

Close to a 2.0. A shit rating but not as awful as it could be right?


----------



## Erik.

I'm surprised anyone is watching wrestling to be honest.


----------



## Seafort

Does Oney Lorcan have a gimmick? Do any of the male wrestlers?


----------



## Not Lying

Randy Lahey said:


> The only other live show that WWE was competing against, was The Voice on NBC. The Voice drew 9.8 million viewers. People are watching TV. Lots of people. They aren't watching wrestling though.


The Voice still running 100% as scheduled though, they're now in the first week of Knockouts, 2 more weeks of that before the "live shows", where no one knows what will happen, and I doubt there's a big cross over between The Voice fans and WWE fans.

WWE should have really taken some off time now, hype up their return and bring some legends and start a new big fresh start.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Why are we still discussing ratings during this time? This is what currently draws: the news, ad-supported movies, binge-watching. This is evidence-based. We should not be talking about ratings when they do not matter at this time.


----------



## Randy Lahey

optikk sucks said:


> Why are we still discussing ratings during this time? This is what currently draws: the news, ad-supported movies, binge-watching. This is evidence-based. We should not be talking about ratings when they do not matter at this time.


TV ratings matter. To think otherwise is foolish. WWE is going to get cancelled from USA Network eventually given their poor ratings. That's why people talk about it. Their demo is down 57% among the target ad demographic. Enough said.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Randy Lahey said:


> TV ratings matter. To think otherwise is foolish. WWE is going to get cancelled from USA Network eventually given their poor ratings. That's why people talk about it. Their demo is down 57% among the target ad demographic. Enough said.


you think they'll be dropped during this pandemic when they provide consistent content for USA? 
Poor ratings? They're in top 10 during a time when literally nothing is drawing (apart from the things i've mentioned). Don't be dumb about it.


----------



## .christopher.

Fearless Viper said:


> Ratings means shit these days you dorks.


Wrong. As usual.

RAW is a TV show. If they get poor ratings, they're cancelled. If they get cancelled, they lose not only money, but all the exposure the TV show brings to advertise ppvs, merchandise, the company's site/social media, etc.


----------



## Fearless Viper

.christopher. said:


> Wrong. As usual.
> 
> RAW is a TV show. If they get poor ratings, they're cancelled. If they get cancelled, they lose not only money, but all the exposure the TV show brings to advertise ppvs, merchandise, the company's site/social media, etc.


When I said these days, I mean during the pandemic you goof.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Fearless Viper said:


> When I said these days, I mean during the pandemic you goof.


They should be doing higher ratings during a pandemic. Most other TV shows are. Pandemis is no excuse, tv execs certainly won't use it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Randy Lahey said:


> They should be doing higher ratings during a pandemic. Most other TV shows are. Pandemis is no excuse, tv execs certainly won't use it.


yawn. read quote below.



optikk sucks said:


> So guys, no need for any more speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID-19 Brings Younger Demos Back to TV
> 
> 
> Teens have spent 46% more time watching television during the pandemic, according to a new VAB report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.adweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To summarise: ratings have increased for news shows, kids shows and movies. Binge-watching figures have also increased - which suggests that more people are choosing to watch Netflix, Disney+, Hulu and Prime. Unfortunately AEW is not available on a streaming outlet where people can binge-watch. WWE may actually be seeing increases in their Network. Good sign for them.
> 
> Sports fans are *not* choosing to watch AEW/WWE in place of their sports shows. Instead, they are binge-watching or watching the news.
> 
> Here is the article if you wish to read it without registering:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/EwedAnE


"most other tv shows" being the news, binge-watching and kid shows.


----------



## llj

optikk sucks said:


> you think they'll be dropped during this pandemic when they provide consistent content for USA?
> Poor ratings? They're in top 10 during a time when literally nothing is drawing (apart from the things i've mentioned). Don't be dumb about it.


they won't get dropped now, but if this is not a blip, and they are permanently losing viewers, then it has long term repercussions when the crowds return

Many business will be lost during this pandemic. Losing money matters right now. They aren't getting a "by" just because this "doesn't count". Quite often, businesses go out of business from situations that are of their hands.


----------



## Randy Lahey

optikk sucks said:


> yawn. read quote below.
> 
> 
> "most other tv shows" being the* news, binge-watching and kid shows.*


What rating would WWE need to get, in order for you to admit that their poor rating is putting them in danger of being cancelled? Because I'm going to clue you in. USA Network isn't paying Raw $280 million a year to beat whatever is on TLC, History Channel, and HGTV. They are paying them that amount of money, to bring in monster ratings. WWE isn't pulling in monster ratings. Their ratings are 33% down from the time they signed their current deal. If you think USA is happy about that, think again. Any TV show that lost 57% of it's most important demo (18-34) year of year should be extremely concerned.

Raw's current deal runs 2019-2024. I'd be shocked if USA doesn't have an out clause in it if the ratings decline further. At this point, WWE is probably giving NXT away for free as a payment for not delivering the ratings they promised.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Randy Lahey said:


> What rating would WWE need to get, in order for you to admit that their poor rating is putting them in danger of being cancelled? Because I'm going to clue you in. USA Network isn't paying Raw $280 million a year to beat whatever is on TLC, History Channel, and HGTV. They are paying them that amount of money, to bring in monster ratings. WWE isn't pulling in monster ratings. Their ratings are 33% down from the time they signed their current deal. If you think USA is happy about that, think again. Any TV show that lost 57% of it's most important demo (18-34) year of year should be extremely concerned.
> 
> Raw's current deal runs 2019-2024. I'd be shocked if USA doesn't have an out clause in it if the ratings decline further. At this point, WWE is probably giving NXT away for free as a payment for not delivering the ratings they promised.


yawn










guess everything getting dropped from tv huh


----------



## Randy Lahey

optikk sucks said:


> yawn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guess everything getting dropped from tv huh


Survivor's viewership looks quite stable compared to WWE. What point are you trying to make?


----------



## ste1592

optikk sucks said:


> "most other tv shows" being the news, binge-watching and kid shows.



So if you're not the news, a kid show or something to binge-watch you're not supposed to draw? Good to know


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ste1592 said:


> So if you're not the news, a kid show or something to binge-watch you're not supposed to draw? Good to know


So you think WWE will continue drawing on limited star power and from quiet arenas? Say it ain’t so.


----------



## ste1592

optikk sucks said:


> So you think WWE will continue drawing on limited star power and from quiet arenas? Say it ain’t so.


Of course not, but that's not what you said. You said only the news, kid shows and binge-watching has seen an increase in ratings; which I'm not even entirely disagreeing actually, but I ask you: why would I pay money to broadcast something that doesn't get people to watch even when they have nothing else to do?

If i'm paying, I don't care why shit happens. It may look like a decent number for the kind of TV WWE produces, but it's not what I'm looking for, so I'd rather go for something that could increase viewership, like a kid show or binge-watching material.

And that doesn't even include all the people who could decide not to comeback at all after the pandemic; there are lots of viewers who were already on the edge, give them a month with no wrestling and they might realize they don't miss it at all in its current form.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ste1592 said:


> Of course not, but that's not what you said. You said only the news, kid shows and binge-watching has seen an increase in ratings; which I'm not even entirely disagreeing actually, but I ask you: why would I pay money to broadcast something that doesn't get people to watch even when they have nothing else to do?
> 
> If i'm paying, I don't care why shit happens. It may look like a decent number for the kind of TV WWE produces, but it's not what I'm looking for, so I'd rather go for something that could increase viewership, like a kid show or binge-watching material.
> 
> And that doesn't even include all the people who could decide not to comeback at all after the pandemic; there are lots of viewers who were already on the edge, give them a month with no wrestling and they might realize they don't miss it at all in its current form.


So yoy want networks to drop everything ? You want them to drop a top 10 show because...it’s not drawing?

let me repeat it. Raw is a Top 10 show for Monday night. Which means it’s attractive for advertisers and most of all makes USA a hell of a lot of money. And it’s not drawing apparently.

You lot are goofy.


----------



## ste1592

optikk sucks said:


> So yoy want networks to drop everything ? You want them to drop a top 10 show because...it’s not drawing?
> 
> let me repeat it. Raw is a Top 10 show for Monday night. Which means it’s attractive for advertisers and most of all makes USA a hell of a lot of money. And it’s not drawing apparently.
> 
> You lot are goofy.


That's not the point. The point is: would you pay for something that hemorrages viewers and can't increase them even when people are locked up? I mean, I certainly wouldn't drop out of the contract I signed, but I'd sure as hell would start looking for something that people actually want to see, even if it's just so I can use it as leverage next time I have to negotiate with Vince.

If, as you say, binge-watching and kid shows are more popular, why would I want to pay that much money to a wrestling company when I could pay the same (if not less) to broadcast a popular TV series or a popular kid show that gives me more return on my investment?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ste1592 said:


> That's not the point. The point is: would you pay for something that hemorrages viewers and can't increase them even when people are locked up? I mean, I certainly wouldn't drop out of the contract I signed, but I'd sure as hell would start looking for something that people actually want to see, even if it's just so I can use it as leverage next time I have to negotiate with Vince.
> 
> If, as you say, binge-watching and kid shows are more popular, why would I want to pay that much money to a wrestling company when I could pay the same (if not less) to broadcast a popular TV series or a popular kid show that gives me more return on my investment?


And do you think we will be in lockdown even after the RAW contract ends? Because once life goes back to norma, those kids shows that are currently drawing will stop drawing.

Advertisers look for that 18-49 demo, where RAW still dominates. They aren’t watching kids shows are they?


----------



## ste1592

optikk sucks said:


> And do you think we will be in lockdown even after the RAW contract ends? Because once life goes back to norma, those kids shows that are currently drawing will stop drawing.
> 
> Advertisers look for that 18-49 demo, where RAW still dominates. They aren’t watching kids shows are they?


Yeah, that's not how it necessarily works. For every person that puts wrestling on hold because they don't like shows with empty arenas, there might be one who quits alltogether because he noticed he doesn't really care anymore and he just kept watching out of habit.

Fine, kids shows won't draw. Why wouldn't you purchase a successful TV series over RAW then? Better yet, over wrestling?

Why are you so convinced that wrestling HAS to be picked up by any TV at all, especially when all signs point to more and more shrinking of their audience? I mean, there has to be a point when networks will say "alright buddy, I'm not paying that much to broadcast stuff that even the most loyal follower is embarassed to watch"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ste1592 said:


> Fine, kids shows won't draw. Why wouldn't you purchase a successful TV series over RAW then? Better yet, over wrestling?


Because raw has topped the demo every week until recently. It’s the most successful show on Monday, no matter what you think.

If not the attitude era anymore


----------



## ste1592

optikk sucks said:


> Because raw has topped the demo every week until recently. It’s the most successful show on Monday, no matter what you think.
> 
> If not the attitude era anymore


Against what? Reruns? The only time they have competition, during football season, they get destroyed.

And even then, I'm not saying that they aren't the most watched TV show in that specific day and time frame. I'm arguing that you could get something that brings in much more vievers and has a similar cost.

There is just one thing that would make me pick wrestling over any a quality TV series: the fact that you can air it all year long. That's literally it.


----------



## xio8ups

No one is watching wrestling. anymore


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Raw's demo is off the charts and that is ALL THAT MATTERS. You guys have got to learn that. Total viewers DOES NOT MATTER. 

Raws Demo is a dream for a television network to get 52 TIMES A YEAR.


----------



## ClintDagger

TKO Wrestling said:


> Raw's demo is off the charts and that is ALL THAT MATTERS. You guys have got to learn that. Total viewers DOES NOT MATTER.
> 
> Raws Demo is a dream for a television network to get 52 TIMES A YEAR.


Demos do not matter for wrestling. In fact the demos for WWE are actually awful from the perspective of advertisers.


----------



## .christopher.

People defending these atrocious ratings really are dumb. Dumber than the average wrestling fan, which is saying a lot.


----------



## .christopher.

Fearless Viper said:


> When I said these days, I mean during the pandemic you goof.


Erm, ratings will always matter to a TV show. I know you're stupid but come on.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.940M [20th] | 0.590D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.866M [23rd] | 0.560D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.720M [28th] | 0.540D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.842M | 0.563D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.074M | - 3.81% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.08% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.146M | - 7.82% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.57% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.220M | - 11.34% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.47% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.071M | - 3.71% ]
[ + 0.006D | + 1.08% ]*










*Y-Y:
[ - 0.532M | - 22.41% ]
[ - 0.250D | - 30.75% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I feel bad for Drew. He _finally_ gets his big moment, and well, yeah...


----------



## Danielallen1410

Showstopper said:


> I feel bad for Drew. He _finally_ gets his big moment, and well, yeah...


What’s the drop off from before the empty arena shows to now?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Danielallen1410 said:


> What’s the drop off from before the empty arena shows to now?


I think they were doing low-mid two's before this. But even more than that, the bigger dropoff is from last year going into WM and slightly after.


----------



## llj

Danielallen1410 said:


> What’s the drop off from before the empty arena shows to now?


Not as large as you think. They were barely hanging on to 2m before the empty arena shows.


----------



## InexorableJourney

The ratings drops seem to be consistent with previous year-on-year drops.

That being the case the no audience shows don't appear to be the specific cause for the overall loss in viewers.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

-July, 2014.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> I feel bad for Drew. He _finally_ gets his big moment, and well, yeah...


 Can't blame him for the ratings, no fans and the virus is definitely going to hurt them.


----------



## llj

Very possible the numbers would have been barely better even if these were regular shows with regular crowds. Their average was 2m, 2.1m or so on the RTW.

It's extremely possible they would have been doing 1.9- 2.0 anyway if these were normal shows.

I think the pandemic has hurt NXT and AEW a lot more, as they have lost 200-300k or so. But the main roster shows have only lost about 100-200k or so off their usual averages during this time.


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean Drew vs. Two guys who cant speak English and a CAW aint helping? Wow.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

To be fair u can’t blame the talent with no fans in the arena and the virus. I am a die hard wwe fan but I am not watching no show with no fans lol


----------



## Danielallen1410

3 hours is too long anyway.
but 3 hours with no fans the way wwe are doing it is torture.

they need to get wrestlers in the crowd like aew does.


----------



## Erik.

Hundred thousand viewers disappearing. 

Same happened at Smackdown. 

Same is happening with NXT and AEW. 

Its almost like watching live theatre without a live audience isn't..... Good?


----------



## Randy Lahey

1.85 mils vs no competition. Can't wait to see what they do against Monday Night Football.


----------



## Not Lying

Soul Man Danny B said:


> View attachment 85355
> 
> -July, 2014.


Said seconds before disaster...


----------



## Randy Lahey

Soul Man Danny B said:


> View attachment 85355
> 
> -July, 2014.


If HHH weren't married to Steph, he'd have been fired by Vince. Someone's gotta take the fall for the bad ratings, and I think the guy that decided work rate was more important than literally everything else that makes wrestling entertaining, would have gotten the ax.

Vince is never going to blame himself (see him firing Barrios). And Kevin Dunn still has a job. So that leaves HHH.


----------



## llj

The Definition of Technician said:


> Said seconds before disaster...


That 17-18 bump was probably from that big round of NXT callups people were excited about. Too bad they pissed it away.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> Said seconds before disaster...


Who did they push between 2014-2017? (3.25 to 2.25). Because that's when they dropped off a cliff. 2018-2020 even worse by %. (2.25 to 1.55 or so).


----------



## Not Lying

Randy Lahey said:


> Who did they push between 2014-2017? (3.25 to 2.25). Because that's when they dropped off a cliff. 2018-2020 even worse by %. (2.25 to 1.55 or so).


Cena was no longer FOTC after getting squashed in 2014 and became more of a part-timer then. They were still developing Roman at the time and there was just a big hole left for top full-time guy as Brock was never there.


----------



## Chan Hung

The Definition of Technician said:


> Said seconds before disaster...


Damn and it keeps dipping. Holy shit.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Definition of Technician said:


> Said seconds before disaster...


That really is horrendous, although ofcourse I do put the 200-300k drop off from pre pandemic to now down to the pandemic, regardless the rating has still dropped massively.

they really need to re think the three hour shows, they have Three brands they don’t need it.


----------



## Frost99

I'm just gonna leave THIS gif until the END of this whole COVID-19 thing as it will perfectly depict the STATE of things.......


----------



## ClintDagger

If you know the trend over the past few years you know they were headed below 2MM Covid or not. And with Raw being the B show this should not be a surprise at all. If everything was normal we’d still be right here.


----------



## henrymark

What were they drawing in 2014? Wasn't it upwards of 4m?

If they were, to lose more than half of your audience in 6 years is a special kind of fail.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ratings would be down regardless.

Their biggest mistake is continuing with the same stale format/approach that has been killing the viewership and demo.


henrymark said:


> What were they drawing in 2014? Wasn't it upwards of 4m?
> 
> If they were, to lose more than half of your audience in 6 years is a special kind of fail.


4.5 million viewers in April 2014, which was actually up on 2013.

Their problem was becoming too corporate minded. The heavily scripted presentation and having Raw remain 3 hours seems like a brilliant business decision. PR and more revenue. But it's been terribly shortsighted from a pro wrestling standpoint. Ditto the Raw brand, which is the ultimate cashcow and ultimate counterproductive lameduck.

Historically they start to come alive when times are tough (1982, 1996, 2004). But their uncanny ability to make network executives happy in a monopolized market has made them lazy and is slowly eating them alive.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Definition of Technician said:


> Said seconds before disaster...


Oof


----------



## Not Lying

Soul Man Danny B said:


> View attachment 85355
> 
> -July, 2014.







This promo really did bite them in the ass. The audacity on those cunts in charge but hey, this was great. For the longest time, they've been booking shit against what the fans wanted, and they thought they would get away with it forever. Well, nope, not really, fuck them. Looking at the Triple H brainwashed pathetic robot morons comments on this video gives me more joy to watch them eat crap now.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Ace said:


> Can't blame him for the ratings, no fans and the virus is definitely going to hurt them.


You definitely can blame Drew he’s utter garbage


----------



## xio8ups

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOOOTBALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


----------



## MoxAsylum

*WWE RAW ratings 4/27/20

1.817 million viewers. 
Hour one drew 1.945 million. 
Hour two drew 1.888 million, 
Hour three drew 1.619 million viewers*

Drew, Black, Rollins and the rest of the geeks are really bringing in those ratings!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

MoxAsylum said:


> *WWE RAW ratings 4/27/20
> 
> 1.817 million viewers.
> Hour one drew 1.945 million.
> Hour two drew 1.888 million,
> Hour three drew 1.619 million viewers*
> 
> Drew, Black, Rollins and the rest of the geeks are really bringing in those ratings!


Still bringing in more than a million more than Mox is bringing in to his show. _shrug_

Drew, though. I feel bad for him. He's getting absolutely mangled.


----------



## Ace

Contract signings don't draw, they've actually shown to tank numbers.

When will this company learn? When you've seen one, you've seen them all.


----------



## llj

Ace said:


> Contract signings don't draw, they've actually shown to tank numbers.
> 
> When will this company learn? When you've seen one, you've seen them all.



I seem to recall the Elimination Chamber contract signing this year did surprisingly well

But it's true this company is in autopilot, has been for years


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.945M [18th] | 0.560D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.888M [19th] | 0.530D [3rd]
V3 | D3: 1.619M [23rd] | 0.430D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.817M | 0.507D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.057M | - 2.93% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.36% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.269M | - 14.25% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 18.87% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.326M | - 16.76% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 23.21% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.025M | - 1.36% ]
[ - 0.056D | - 9.95% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.341M | - 15.80% ]
[ - 0.213D | - 29.58% ]*


----------



## llj

I actually think they would have done similar numbers even regardless of the empty arena virus stuff. Maybe about 100-200k better, which means 1.9-2.0ish


----------



## Chan Hung

Down, down down the ratings go.


----------



## DaSlacker

USA Network won't go for it but they need to cut at least an hour from Raw for their own long term health. If ever there was the perfect time for the less equals more philosophy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> USA Network won't go for it but they need to cut at least an hour from Raw for their own long term health. If ever there was the perfect time for the less equals more philosophy.


Completely agree. What's even funnier? USA actually pays WWE $30-35 million extra for that third hour. Absolutely ponderous that they haven't gone to WWE about cutting that third hour out since it costs USA a pretty penny.


----------



## Frost99

Another wrestling show, Another low rating & Another gif.....


----------



## MoxAsylum

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.945M [18th] | 0.560D [2nd]
> V2 | D2: 1.888M [19th] | 0.530D [3rd]
> V3 | D3: 1.619M [23rd] | 0.430D [7th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.817M | 0.507D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.057M | - 2.93% ]
> [ - 0.030D | - 5.36% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.269M | - 14.25% ]
> [ - 0.100D | - 18.87% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.326M | - 16.76% ]
> [ - 0.130D | - 23.21% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ - 0.025M | - 1.36% ]
> [ - 0.056D | - 9.95% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.341M | - 15.80% ]
> [ - 0.213D | - 29.58% ]*


How you gonna post this when I already posted it ? Lol


----------



## troyag93

270,000 drop from 2nd hour- 3rd hour 

That’s what happens when you show 2 squash matches, a terrible women’s segment and Liv Morgan vs Ruby


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> Still bringing in more than a million more than Mox is bringing in to his show. _shrug_


Dude, just stop. Over half AEW's main roster has been stuck at home for the past month and a half. What's WWE's excuse?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Dude, just stop. Over half AEW's main roster has been stuck at home for the past month and a half. What's WWE's excuse?


AJ, Orton, Brock, and Owens haven't been on Raw since before WM. Becky's there on and off. You were saying...


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> AJ, Orton, Brock, and Owens haven't been on Raw since before WM. Becky's there on and off. You were saying...


Brock's never there so I'll give you that one but I have heard that AJ and Owens were at the shows and just not used the past 3 weeks. I hope that's not true cause it makes no sense when it comes to Owens but I can't say I'd be surprised either. Still that's a far cry from the 7 weeks AEW's talent has been at home.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Brock's never there so I'll give you that one but I have heard that AJ and Owens were at the shows and just not used the past 3 weeks. I hope that's not true cause it makes no sense when it comes to Owens but I can't say I'd be surprised either. Still that's a far cry from the 7 weeks AEW's talent has been at home.


None of those guys I mentioned have been on Raw since before WM. They can be AT the shows, but if they're not used on TV it's the same as them not being there. So, that's AJ, Brock, Owens, Orton. That's four huge names, and the FOTC, Becky is there on and off every week for some reason. They're pretty much in the same boat.


----------



## Seafort

The fact that everyone is missing is that WWE operating from the Performance Center drastically narrows the gap between RAW, Smackdown, and NXT. Visually they are now the same, all in a small warehouse environment with no fans. And so is AEW, Impact, and eventually ROH.

Previously RAW and Smackdown looked like a big deal because they were in large arenas. AEW had the look of a major league competitor at times in part because they were in either sold-out mid-sized arenas like the HEB Center or the occasional large arena. Impact and ROH looked minor league because they were in small venues of a few hundred to possibly 3K fans.

Now, everyone is operating on a level playing field. And visually, there is little to differentiate WWE from its competitors.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> None of those guys I mentioned have been on Raw since before WM. They can be AT the shows, but if they're not used on TV it's the same as them not being there. So, that's AJ, Brock, Owens, Orton. That's four huge names, and the FOTC, Becky is there on and off every week for some reason. They're pretty much in the same boat.


WTF? No, it's not the same thing. WWE not having the brain power to come up with ways to use their talent (that's backstage at said show) isn't remotely the same as AEW having their talent locked away from them out of state. You can't honestly think that's being "in the same boat."

And that is not even taking into account all the money and private jet Vince has to go get his talent. AEW doesn't have that "perk" either to get these guys to the show or put them up in a hotel during tapings. They are on their own.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> WTF? No, it's not the same thing. WWE not having the brain power to come up with ways to use their talent (that's backstage at said show) isn't remotely the same as AEW having their talent locked away from them out of state. You can't honestly think that's being "in the same boat."


A couple of things:

1) Owen is NOT at the shows. He's at home and lives in Canada and can't cross the border from what I've read.

2) AJ was always going to take a break after losing to Taker at WM, virus or not virus.

3) Orton, AJ, Owens all have families and kids. It's more important for them to be at home with their families/kids.

So, uh, yeah. It is the same thing. WWE is missing a number of their top stars and they're at home for good reason. Common fucking sense.


----------



## Erik.

Continues to go down. 

Again wouldn't surprise me if AEW, NXT and Smackdown ratings also decrease (though AEW was the only one that didn't decrease last week). 

A man once said that a wrestling show without a live audience is like masturbating without lube. It can be done, it's just not as good.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Showstopper said:


> A couple of things:
> 
> 1) Owen is NOT at the shows. He's at home and lives in Canada and can't cross the border from what I've read.
> 
> 2) AJ was always going to take a break after losing to Taker at WM, virus or not virus.
> 
> 3) Orton, AJ, Owens all have families and kids. It's more important for them to be at home with their families/kids.
> 
> So, uh, yeah. It is the same thing. WWE is missing a number of their top stars and they're at home for good reason. Common fucking sense.


theyve got bother their champions on their shows, thats a good start.

and I don’t see why the comparisons between a program that’s been on tv since 93 compared to one that’s been on since October anyway


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Danielallen1410 said:


> theyve got bother their champions on their shows, thats a good start.
> 
> and I don’t see why the comparisons between a program that’s been on tv since 93 compared to one that’s been on since October anyway


Are you referring to Becky as the other Champion? She's not on live every week. And who cares when the shows started? No one plays the violin for Raw having a 3rd hour that brings down the overall rating that none of the other shows have. Plus, if you're a truly hot show, you're a hot show, no matter when you started.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Finally..The Rock returns to RAW, for nobody in attendance and the thousands watching around the world!


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> A couple of things:
> 
> 1) Owen is NOT at the shows. He's at home and lives in Canada and can't cross the border from what I've read.
> 
> 2) AJ was always going to take a break after losing to Taker at WM, virus or not virus.
> 
> 3) Orton, AJ, Owens all have families and kids. It's more important for them to be at home with their families/kids.
> 
> So, uh, yeah. It is the same thing. WWE is missing a number of their top stars and they're at home for good reason. Common fucking sense.


 I thought AJ would be back for MITB, that's the impression I got when he said on a stream that he would be wearing OC merch up until MITB.

Guess the company wanted to keep him out longer, not that I can complain for storyline purposes. He should be out for a while.

The thing is Raw is so damn thin with so many top stars missing. It's basically Rollins and Rey as established main eventers, the rest are no names or guys they're trying to make stars.

I do wonder what they're going to do with MITB, there appears to only be 3 matches for the card? There are zero uppercard matches with their uppercard/main event scene sitting at home.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> I thought AJ would be back for MITB, that's the impression I got when he said on a stream that he would be wearing OC merch up until MITB.
> 
> Guess the company wanted to keep him out longer, not that I can complain for storyline purposes. He should be out for a while.
> 
> The thing is Raw is so damn thin with so many top stars missing. It's basically Rollins and Rey as established main eventers, the rest are no names or guys they're trying to make stars.
> 
> I do wonder what they're going to do with MITB, there appears to only be 3 matches for the card? There are zero uppercard matches with their uppercard/main event scene sitting at home.


It's a very strange time. It's basically the Drew and Rollins show. What's the excuse for Becky? I'm assuming if Seth is there, that Becky is there.

And for people who wonder why Vince has 'favorites', this is why. It's the people who are there all the time outside of when they're injured. Right or wrong, this is why he has favorites.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> It's a very strange time. It's basically the Drew and Rollins show. What's the excuse for Becky? I'm assuming if Seth is there, that Becky is there.


Becky Lynch is apparently recovering from a shoulder injury atm, which explains why her match at Wrestlemania 36 was only 8 minutes long and why we rarely see her wrestle on TV nowadays (with her last match on Raw taking place on February).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Becky Lynch is apparently recovering from a shoulder injury atm, which explains why her match at Wrestlemania 36 was only 8 minutes long and why we rarely see her wrestle on TV nowadays (with her last match on Raw taking place on February).


Thanks. Wow, I didn't know that.


----------



## Ace

DammitChrist said:


> Becky Lynch is apparently recovering from a shoulder injury atm, which explains why her match at Wrestlemania 36 was only 8 minutes long and why we rarely see her wrestle on TV nowadays (with her last match on Raw taking place on February).


 AJ and Orton have been written off for storyline reasons I think.


----------



## Not Lying

DaSlacker said:


> USA Network won't go for it but they need to cut at least an hour from Raw for their own long term health. If ever there was the perfect time for the less equals more philosophy.


I wish they'd do the 3rd hour something like talking smack used to be. It would cost them probably less to produce and could be used as a nice bridge to analyze the episode and build for the next one. It's insane how one of their best shows they've done, they decided to scrap it for no good reason.


----------



## xio8ups

see what happens when you try to empower woman's wrestling lololols


----------



## Danielallen1410

Showstopper said:


> Are you referring to Becky as the other Champion? She's not on live every week. And who cares when the shows started? No one plays the violin for Raw having a 3rd hour that brings down the overall rating that none of the other shows have. Plus, if you're a truly hot show, you're a hot show, no matter when you started.


well who’s choice is it to have a third hour?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Danielallen1410 said:


> well who’s choice is it to have a third hour?


USA offered Vince a ton of money for the extra hour (somewhere between $30 million - $35 million) and of course Vince can't say no to it.


----------



## .christopher.

Only a matter of time until they sink to AEW numbers.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

if the rumours are true and that WWE are being sold off BTC to ESPN, it truly could be the end of WWE.


----------



## llj

I don't know why people keep mentioning Owens, Orton and AJ as if they were the difference between 1.8s and 2.5s. The show was already doing 2.1s on the Road to Wrestlemania and a dip after Mania would have happened either way. I think if everything were normal they'd maybe be still doing 2.0s and 1.9s.


----------



## Dizzie

I still think fans are hyping up the fall in ratings too much and that counts for all wrestling shows at the moment, this whole point scoring from anti-wwe and anti-aew fans over the past few months is pretty damn pathetic in the grand scheme of things.

The only thing wwe should be more worried about though is that they are going to have to build up both their TV and live crowd numbers again when things become normal and I dont think their current product and booking of its wrestlers to create stars to bring back the ratings and live audience they were doing before the pandemic is good enough to do so unless something drastically changes within their creativity and structure of their shows.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Their bottom was going to fall out anyway regardless of the Covid virus.

For years they have endlessly pushed people like Reigns and Rollins who simply aren't good enough to be the main stars of a company.

They've also let Lesnar completely suffocate whatever show he's on and give him exactly what he wants at the expense of everyone else

They are so creatively bankrupt that they go for mind-numbing celebrity quick fixes like Cain Velasquez, Rob Gronkowski, or even Ronda Rousey. None of those signings made any type of a lasting impact

They have absolutely nothing moving forward that is going to bring those people back


----------



## RiverFenix

The Rock's Titan Games season two will air on Mondays between 8-9pm starting May 25th on NBC. It's first season averages around 6M viewers.


----------



## SPCDRI

That's going to be a kick in the teeth because Shark Tank moving to Friday nights has already taken a nice bite out of Smackdown viewership from what i can tell, especially with the 18-49 set. 
Having a television show with a pro wrestler and actor as famous as The Rock as direct time slot competition in that same sort of quasi-sport niche is not good for RAW at all.


----------



## MoxAsylum

SPCDRI said:


> That's going to be a kick in the teeth because Shark Tank moving to Friday nights has already taken a nice bite out of Smackdown viewership from what i can tell, especially with the 18-49 set.
> Having a television show with a pro wrestler and actor as famous as The Rock as direct time slot competition in that same sort of quasi-sport niche is not good for RAW at all.


I’d rather watch that over the current product too


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.807M [16th] | 0.480D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.691M [19th] | 0.460D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.560M [22nd] | 0.430D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.686M | 0.457D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.116M | - 6.42% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 4.17% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.131M | - 7.75% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 6.52% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.247M | - 13.67% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 10.42% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.131M | - 7.21% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.86% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.558M | - 24.87% ]
[ - 0.263D | - 36.53% ]*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats...thats...uh. yeah.


----------



## Chris90

oof


----------



## chronoxiong

Ratings just keep on tumbling down. NBC paid a big price for these TV rights lol.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Wonder how much Vince is trying to pony up to get Lesnar out of the house. He claimed that No Brock is the reason that ratings are so low


----------



## Cosmo77

they deserve it ,never turned off raw faster


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RIP


----------



## Frost99

US on ratings......










Then #WWELogic on ratings.....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dr. Jones said:


> Wonder how much Vince is trying to pony up to get Lesnar out of the house. He claimed that No Brock is the reason that ratings are so low


Lesnar won’t turn up on account of his high salary. Cost saving measure.


----------



## llj

WWE is buried


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

not too bad actually


----------



## rexmundi

Lowest rating ever. Props to WWE for record setting television. That demo is beyond atrocious for WWE.


----------



## DaSlacker

Just looked at the card from last night.

Long gauntlet featuring 2 jobbers, 2 former 205 guys, 1 bland guy randomly called up
Return of guy The Undertaker literally killed 
A guy who wasn't pushed in NXT and guy randomly introduced vs vanilla flippy 205 guys 
Charlotte vs jobber girl they buried last year
Drew vs former 205 guy turned main roster jobber

No surprise the rating fell again


----------



## Erramayhem89

It's over for WWE. Wrestling just isn't a thing anymore. Just a few years ago RAW was still getting 3 ratings.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

50-year old nobody called No Neck Ed, a meme, outdrew RAW @Chip Chipperson.

how do you feel about this? Viewing habits have changed. Current wrestling culture is outdated.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

The ratings will be fine next week with the returns of Edge, Orton, and Hollywood Bex.


----------



## Ace

They need to go on a break or those ratings are only going to get lower.

You can only watch wrestling with no fans for so long, only more people will tap out and who knows what that floor would be.

Wont surprise me to see them doing 1.2m.


----------



## ClintDagger

Their demos are awful and now their overalls are getting dangerously close to “cut bait” levels.


----------



## llj




----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

optikk sucks said:


> not too bad actually


I don't get how they're getting awful ratings but all three hours are still in the top 6 in the all important demo. Doesn't make any sense to me on the surface, anyway.

Anyway, no one is increasing these ratings. Not even part-timers. I think the only thing that increase ratings even to a small degree for all the TV wrestling shows right now are fans being back. Give me a quiet Corpus Christi crowd anyday of the week over this shit. And the wrestlers who are the World Champions right now during the pandemic really drew the short straw. Just bad luck, I guess.


----------



## ElTerrible

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.807M [16th] | 0.480D [3rd]
> V2 | D2: 1.691M [19th] | 0.460D [4th]
> V3 | D3: 1.560M [22nd] | 0.430D [6th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.686M | 0.457D*


Makes me kind of nostalgic to see AJ is back on Impact.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Showstopper said:


> I don't get how they're getting awful ratings but all three hours are still in the top 6 in the all important demo. Doesn't make any sense to me on the surface, anyway.
> 
> Anyway, no one is increasing these ratings. Not even part-timers. I think the only thing that increase ratings even to a small degree for all the TV wrestling shows right now are fans being back. Give me a quiet Corpus Christi crowd anyday of the week over this shit. And the wrestlers who are the World Champions right now during the pandemic really drew the short straw. Just bad luck, I guess.


looks like nothing is drew over 2 million last night. i really do believe we are reaching the end of this idea that TV ratings = end all be all.

There is just so much competition now, with netflix, hulu, disney+, prime video, apple tv. Hell, you got Youtube and instagram pretty much holding full tv shows right now. For example, Tory Lanez Quarantine Radio drew like 400k viewers at one point.

That top 10 looks deserted. Nothing you can really sink your teeth into - like dramas for example. Most of those have pretty much migrated to streaming services.

We should get over the idea of looking at ratings. It just isn't a suitable measuring metric in 2020. OR you could see it the other way. WWE are not doing enough to distract viewers away from Netflix and other streaming services. People would rather watch their on-demand show than a live show that's supposedly unmissable.


----------



## ElTerrible

optikk sucks said:


> looks like nothing is drew over 2 million last night. i really do believe we are reaching the end of this idea that TV ratings = end all be all.
> 
> There is just so much competition now, with netflix, hulu, disney+, prime video, apple tv. Hell, you got Youtube and instagram pretty much holding full tv shows right now. For example, Tory Lanez Quarantine Radio drew like 400k viewers at one point.
> 
> That top 10 looks deserted. Nothing you can really sink your teeth into - like dramas for example. Most of those have pretty much migrated to streaming services.
> 
> We should get over the idea of looking at ratings. It just isn't a suitable measuring metric in 2020. OR you could see it the other way. WWE are not doing enough to distract viewers away from Netflix and other streaming services. People would rather watch their on-demand show than a live show that's supposedly unmissable.


Sounds good. Can I use it in a meeting tomorrow morning? Asking for a friend at NBC.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Lol at the guy who claimed Rollins was carrying the show. Yes he is carrying it, straight into the ground. McIntyre is boring too. As well as pretty much everyone else on the roster. The only stars they have left on RAW is Orton, Edge and AJ. I’ve given up on watching the weekly shows because they both absolutely suck


----------



## Ace

Can we just all agree wrestling without fans is painful?

They need to change it up, either get some wrestlers in the crowd to create noise or start doing the show off site.

You know what? Have a new location each week, i.e. top of titan tower, on a boat or in an empty stadium in Florida.

A change in scenery each week will definitely help.

I've barely watched any wrestling since the world went into lockdown.


----------



## drougfree

cant blame the viewers . who wants to see rollins vs rollins 2.0?


----------



## Ace

drougfree said:


> cant blame the viewers . who wants to see rollins vs rollins 2.0?


Not a fan of Drew but the pandemic is definitely hurting them.

It sucks for every champ atm.


----------



## llj

I don't mind Drew, I think he's neither a negative or a positive though. Pulling the title off him won't work since nobody else on the program would do any better. Maybe Brock would if he appeared every week, but if we're realistically talking ratings, you know Brock won't be appearing most weeks anyway, right? Plus the guy lives in Canada, not exactly easy to get around between the two countries now


----------



## Seafort

Ace said:


> They need to go on a break or those ratings are only going to get lower.
> 
> You can only watch wrestling with no fans for so long, only more people will tap out and who knows what that floor would be.
> 
> Wont surprise me to see them doing 1.2m.


This is a freefall of the likes that I have not seen since the fall of 2018, which led to the soft reboot in December.

WWE's hour three was just over 400K viewers above AEW's premier viewership.


----------



## Ace

Man I don't want any of my favorites to become champion and be associated to this.

MITB is all yours Black.

Also, lmfao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1257768434269487105


----------



## DanTheMan077

MoxAsylum said:


> Lol at the guy who claimed Rollins was carrying the show. Yes he is carrying it, straight into the ground. McIntyre is boring too. As well as pretty much everyone else on the roster. The only stars they have left on RAW is Orton, Edge and AJ. I’ve given up on watching the weekly shows because they both absolutely suck


Seth is stopping the ratings from dropping even further. It's Drew's fault that things are so bad. He's fucking garbage and he needs to be removed as champion asap.


----------



## Seafort

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.807M [16th] | 0.480D [3rd]
> V2 | D2: 1.691M [19th] | 0.460D [4th]
> V3 | D3: 1.560M [22nd] | 0.430D [6th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.686M | 0.457D*


AEW's Week 1 viewership was *1.409M, *although it's now down by roughly 50% in part due to COVID. Still, if anyone were to say that RAW would soon be approaching AEW Dynamite numbers five months ago they would have been laughed at.


----------



## Chan Hung

WOW at 1.6 holy shit that is getting seriously horrid!


----------



## Chan Hung

We know wrestling in general is at an all time low. Everyone is suffering. This past Raw received around an average of an awful 1.6. Lets Assume TNT said fuck it, lets go head to head on Monday. I know Raw would win, but by how much? Before i would say by a squash, now to be honest i would say by less than 1 million perhaps?


----------



## .christopher.

As expected. WWE will soon be at AEW numbers, which is still far too many people watching wrestling.


----------



## .christopher.

The Boy Wonder said:


> The ratings will be fine next week with the returns of Edge, Orton, and Hollywood Bex.


Ha, you'd think people would learn. Especially after over two decades of fans turning off and never coming back.


----------



## llj

Weeks like this are great for this forum because all those puerile WWE kiss ass posters in here can't say shit with a number this low. This goes for Smackdown too. Ya hate to see the talent in the company bear the burden for this downfall but it's satisfying to see all those excuse makers in here have to stay away from this thread lol


----------



## Kishido

Lol


----------



## dan the marino

RainmakerV2 said:


> You mean Drew vs. Two guys who cant speak English and a CAW aint helping? Wow.


In all fairness Drew is also a CAW, he just has some cool entrance music.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I'd say around the same. A million viewers difference sounds about right.


----------



## henrymark

I've seen maybe 2 segments in the last 6 weeks, both on youtube. 

I just come here to read the comments on the shitty ratings now tbh


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Garbage show gets you low ratings, I tell you.


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

Time for wild card return

Or give out money again


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

It'd be the same.


----------



## Gift Of Jericho

Who cares now, wrestling's done. If WWE goes under the entire wrestling business goes down with it.


----------



## JTB33b

live fans=ratings


----------



## Rozzop

So I repeat for the millionth time. Nobody wants to watch CAW dudes spamming superkicks. If that was the case ROH would have done better in the last 20 years. 

They put absolutely no effort into character building. Absolutely none. 

Who is Murphy? What kind of a name is Murphy? Where are the vignettes? The backstage interviews? Why should the audience care about Murphy, Humberto, Alexander etc

Why would you want to sit and watch this shit?


----------



## Erik.

Worst Raw rating ever? 

Im sure they'll get a few hundred thousand back when crowds are back though.


----------



## SparrowPrime

MitB fallout,, Edge vs. Orton, and the return of Hollywood Becky next week. It will do a small rebound, back above 2 million. I'll be curious to see if they maintain that gain for the rest of May.


----------



## Erik.

SparrowPrime said:


> MitB fallout,, Edge vs. Orton, and the return of Hollywood Becky next week. It will do a small rebound, back above 2 million. I'll be curious to see if they maintain that gain for the rest of May.


You think 400k are going to tune in for an audienceless show because wrestlers, who aren't proven to move the needle by nearly half a million, are on? 

They may go back to 1,800,000 which they got last week but no chance they get 2m or above next week.


----------



## Seafort

Rozzop said:


> So I repeat for the millionth time. Nobody wants to watch CAW dudes spamming superkicks. If that was the case ROH would have done better in the last 20 years.
> 
> They put absolutely no effort into character building. Absolutely none.
> 
> Who is Murphy? What kind of a name is Murphy? Where are the vignettes? The backstage interviews? Why should the audience care about Murphy, Humberto, Alexander etc
> 
> Why would you want to sit and watch this shit?


Brilliant...I've been saying the same thing. It's not "Merciless" Bud Murphy. Or "Malevolent" Buddy Murphy. Or even just Buddy Murphy.

It's just *Murphy*.

There's absolutely no creativity in this sort of "character building". In fact, by taking away the first name from so many wrestlers with generic first or last names it's actually negative character building.

I fully expect that coming months will see other wrestlers appearing such as *Smith*, *Bill*, or perhaps even *The*.

If Edge were debut today, he'd be *Adam*. Or *Copeland. *Or* Castle*.


----------



## .christopher.

JTB33b said:


> live fans=ratings


I mean, they were getting record low ratings with fans, so...


----------



## Chan Hung

Rozzop said:


> So I repeat for the millionth time. Nobody wants to watch CAW dudes spamming superkicks. If that was the case ROH would have done better in the last 20 years.
> 
> They put absolutely no effort into character building. Absolutely none.
> 
> Who is Murphy? What kind of a name is Murphy? Where are the vignettes? The backstage interviews? Why should the audience care about Murphy, Humberto, Alexander etc
> 
> Why would you want to sit and watch this shit?


There is hardly any reason to give a shit about Cedric, Humberto, Murphy etc...hence the ratings reflect no fucks given


----------



## Chan Hung

Seafort said:


> Brilliant...I've been saying the same thing. It's not "Merciless" Bud Murphy. Or "Malevolent" Buddy Murphy. Or even just Buddy Murphy.
> 
> It's just *Murphy*.
> 
> There's absolutely no creativity in this sort of "character building". In fact, by taking away the first name from so many wrestlers with generic first or last names it's actually negative character building.
> 
> I fully expect that coming months will see other wrestlers appearing such as *Smith*, *Bill*, or perhaps even *The*.
> 
> If Edge were debut today, he'd be *Adam*. Or *Copeland. *Or* Castle*.


Tonight...in this corner....

"HIM"...and his oppenent....."NOT HIM"


----------



## Rozzop

Seafort said:


> Brilliant...I've been saying the same thing. It's not "Merciless" Bud Murphy. Or "Malevolent" Buddy Murphy. Or even just Buddy Murphy.
> 
> It's just *Murphy*.
> 
> There's absolutely no creativity in this sort of "character building". In fact, by taking away the first name from so many wrestlers with generic first or last names it's actually negative character building.
> 
> I fully expect that coming months will see other wrestlers appearing such as *Smith*, *Bill*, or perhaps even *The*.
> 
> If Edge were debut today, he'd be *Adam*. Or *Copeland. *Or* Castle*.


They really don't care do they? 

Take anyone random from the midcard back in the day. Crash Holly, Steve Blackman, Al Snow etc they were their own distinct character and personality. 

Watching two dudes called Smith and John, with absolutely no backstory whatsoever, only appeals to a very small audience. 

Vince knows this. He built his empire on characters. So why in the year 2020 do we have a dude called Murphy, with seemingly no character or personality or anything?


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

with a crowd things will pick up again. but it must be said that i dont see 500k+ viewers coming back just because there is a crowd. so are we really looking at long term sub-2million viewers?


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

Worse, I suspect a significant percentage of people who've stopped watching will not be coming back. Ever.

Why? Broken habits. Speaking only for myself, the hardest part of quitting Raw was getting over the habit. Once you get over that, it's very easy not to go back because the show is so awful.

Granted, the fans that are left are the hardest of the hardcores, so the bleeding might not be _too _bad. Most casual viewers gave up on WWE years and years ago.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Seafort said:


> Brilliant...I've been saying the same thing. It's not "Merciless" Bud Murphy. Or "Malevolent" Buddy Murphy. Or even just Buddy Murphy.
> 
> It's just *Murphy*.
> 
> There's absolutely no creativity in this sort of "character building". In fact, by taking away the first name from so many wrestlers with generic first or last names it's actually negative character building.
> 
> I fully expect that coming months will see other wrestlers appearing such as *Smith*, *Bill*, or perhaps even *The*.
> 
> If Edge were debut today, he'd be *Adam*. Or *Copeland. *Or* Castle*.


Yep. Reminds me of when TNA was rocking pretty good and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, "The Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels, a beloved TNA original and the forgotten 3rd member of the epic 3 way AJ/Joe/Daniels match, was referred to simply as "Daniels.'


----------



## Pippen94

Gift Of Jericho said:


> Who cares now, wrestling's done. If WWE goes under the entire wrestling business goes down with it.


The opposite of that is true


----------



## Seafort

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep. Reminds me of when TNA was rocking pretty good and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, "The Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels, a beloved TNA original and the forgotten 3rd member of the epic 3 way AJ/Joe/Daniels match, was referred to simply as "Daniels.'


Yes!

I don't know who in TNA spearheaded this, but there was a point where they started going with a lot of one-name wrestlers.

"Gunner"
"Crimson"
"Daniels"

I'm surprised that AJ Styles wasn't recast as simply "Styles" and Bobby Roode as "Roode".

Seriously, while there are exceptions (Edge, Kane, and Ricochet), WWE falling in love with one-name wrestlers is really limiting an entire generation of wrestlers. Take "Elias" for a second. He's quite entertaining as he is and is an outlier, but how much more significant would he be if he was called _"The Harvester of Sorrow" Elias Sampson, _taking a play on the old Metallica song? Or "The Drifter" Elias Sampson. Instead, he's just simply Elias.

Taking away the first or last names of wrestlers, as well as their monickers renders them just interchangeable widgets. I didn't want to see *Terry* vs *Jim* at WrestleMania VI...I wanted to see Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior. I didn't want to see *Williams* vs *Dwayne* at WrestleMania XV....I wanted to see "Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs The Rock.


----------



## Seafort

Chan Hung said:


> Tonight...in this corner....
> 
> "HIM"...and his oppenent....."NOT HIM"


That's one of the funniest things I've read here in a while, and a perfect microcosm of WWE's lazy booking. It's almost as if someone has adopted the on-screen persona of Orange Cassidy and is now in charge of booking. 

"Sir, what should his nickname be?"
"Whatever..."
"Maybe we should shorten it to just his real name?"
"Whatever..."
"Sir, we can use bigger title fonts if we limit the names to just one word!"
"Whatever..."


----------



## xio8ups

I predict under 1 million if football season starts this year.


----------



## SPCDRI

if they still have to be empty arena against football games, they will get murdered.


----------



## Dave Santos

Survivor the tv show has been on for 20 years. 2 weeks ago they had their biggest rating in 9 years with close to 12 million viewers. Its possible to increase. A few shows have increased during this quarantine period while others have dropped.


----------



## Seafort

Dave Santos said:


> Survivor the tv show has been on for 20 years. 2 weeks ago they had their biggest rating in 9 years with close to 12 million viewers. Its possible to increase. A few shows have increased during this quarantine period while others have dropped.


The equivalent for Survivor is if the latest season was filmed in a studio, with the cast sitting in chairs just arguing with each other.


----------



## Gift Of Jericho

Pippen94 said:


> The opposite of that is true


Yeah AEW right ?


----------



## Pippen94

Gift Of Jericho said:


> Yeah AEW right ?


I was thinking of all of the territories that went by the wayside. But yeah, other promotions today missing out on talent wwe is stockpiling


----------



## Seafort

Just ran across this from a few years ago. Some of it was pretty interesting, although obviously WWE was able to pull things together enough to garner that huge renewal.









Will WWE drop under 2.0 rating?


I won't click, "yes, I hope so" because I don't hope for that but I do think it'll happen in time. This brand extension is going to fail hard on the RAW side.




www.wrestlingforum.com





Yes. If they continue to drop at their current year-over-year rate of decline, they will easily drop below a 2.0 by September. The company - in terms of its television audience - is in real trouble. The erosion of their audience over the last year far outstrips previous year over year declines. And it's more than twice the decline in *overall tv viewership* (11% per Screenmediadaily.com)

Between 2012 and 2014, the Monday Night Raw episode at this time of the year averaged *4.2M* viewers. This year it was just *2.97M*, a whopping 27.8% year over year drop. The 2.03 rating itself represents a *28%* drop from last year.

Put another way, if the June 12, 2017 episode shows a similar rate of decline, that RAW will enjoy a 1.45 rating, with 2.14M viewers. Extend that to the June 11, 2018 episode, and RAW will draw a *1.04* rating with just 1.55M viewers.

That said, the question is why? Is it just general erosion in television viewership? I think that the numbers show otherwise, and that this accelerated decline which began last year is beating the pace of general declines in tradition television versus steaming service. And why? Very simple...cliched storytelling, a lack of more than a handful of compelling characters, incremental or no plot movement, and a full year of unpopular champions. The latter is key.

*Seth Rollins*: Holds the belt from WM 31 to Nov 2015. Is generally portrayed as a very weak, Honkytonk Man like champion who usually needs constant interference to retain
*Sheamus*: A largely rejected, bland heel character following his return, Sheamus has a brief, uninspiring reign
*HHH*: Another heel, HHH never wrestles and is the crown jewel of a multi-year Authority angle
*Roman Reigns*: Obstensibly the face, Reigns is largely rejected post-WM 32 and has been involved in no real big angles since winning the title

If they cannot reverse the trend, the company is in trouble. Their TV deal will eventually come up for renewal, and a RAW that is well ahead of the curve of TV viewership declines will not earn WWE a huge renewal fee. And without that huge renewal fee, their profitability will take a substantial hit.

*RAW TV Ratings, Viewers, and Changes from Previous Year*
6/13/16: 2.03 (2.97M viewers) -27.4% from previous year
6/15/15: 2.83 (4.11M viewers) -00.5% from previous year
6/16/14: n/a (4.13M viewers) +3.5% from previous year
6/10/13: 3.04 (3.990 viewers) -13.6% from previous year
6/09/12: 3.20 (4.62M viewers)
6/13/11: 3.30
6/14/10: 3.40
6/15/09: 3.70
6/16/08: 3.70
6/11/07: 3.80


----------



## Gift Of Jericho

Pippen94 said:


> I was thinking of all of the territories that went by the wayside. But yeah, other promotions today missing out on talent wwe is stockpiling


What ? You know the majority of people who have stopped watching WWE have just stopped watching wrestling period, they don't switch over to Japan, indies or AEW. guaranteed the people that watch these shows also watch WWE no matter how much they complain about it, because they are obsessed with wrestling.


----------



## Pippen94

Gift Of Jericho said:


> What ? You know the majority of people who have stopped watching WWE have just stopped watching wrestling period, they don't switch over to Japan, indies or AEW. guaranteed the people that watch these shows also watch WWE no matter how much they complain about it, because they are obsessed with wrestling.


Wrestling existed before wwe & will exist after.


----------



## Y2K23

Gift Of Jericho said:


> What ? You know the majority of people who have stopped watching WWE have just stopped watching wrestling period, they don't switch over to Japan, indies or AEW. guaranteed the people that watch these shows also watch WWE no matter how much they complain about it, because they are obsessed with wrestling.


Not everybody that watches other wrestling shows also watch WWE. You couldn't pay me enough money to watch WWE garbage


----------



## Gift Of Jericho

Y2K23 said:


> Not everybody that watches other wrestling shows also watch WWE. You couldn't pay me enough money to watch WWE garbage


You're on a forum talking about, you might not watch regulary but I bet you watch Mania and over major ppv's every year at the very least.



Pippen94 said:


> Wrestling existed before wwe & will exist after.


In bingo halls and high school gyms. a weekly show in arena, I doubt very much. Take away the money they bring to the market and less people are going to train and damage their bodies. I don't care what any wrestlers says the end goal in their career is WWE, anyone who says otherwise is a liar. it's the best deal a wrestler can get money wise.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Can't wait for the viewership to decline to 1.5M- 1M in the coming months...Hopefully Covid19 doesn't cease and the WWE and Vince are brought down to their very knees...and even cease to exist. Can't wait !


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.993M [16th] | 0.590D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.961M [17th] | 0.580D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.802M [23rd] | 0.530D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.919M | 0.567D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.032M | - 1.61% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.69% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.159M | - 8.11% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.62% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.191M | - 9.58% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 10.17% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.233M | + 13.82% ]
[ + 0.110D | + 24.07% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.430M | - 18.31% ]
[ - 0.236D | - 29.39% ]*


----------



## SPCDRI

Big week over week bump, but its still down 400,000 total viewers from where it was this time last year, and the show is still getting murdered in the youth demo from overall decline in this segment fr WWE and coronavirus. -29 percent in 18-49. Jesus!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Finished 1st, 2nd, and 4th in the demo:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260301072012177408


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Edit:


----------



## MoxAsylum

Ouch. Becky’s announcement didn’t do much for the ratings. Looks like WWE has chased a lot of people away, plus no fans is really hurting things.


----------



## chronoxiong

Thats a big 3rd hour drop from the first hour but still an increase of viewers over the previous week. Got to look at the positives


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Those are fantastic numbers to me. I am even shocked that 200k people watch a raw with no fans.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Showstopper said:


> Finished 1st, 2nd, and 4th in the demo:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260301072012177408


Fantastic to see these gains. Last week was just a bad week, I guess. Back on track


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Really thought they would make a run at 2M with all those returns and the PPV the night before. Spinning these numbers of course.


----------



## xio8ups

0.56 demo LOLOLOL


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

couldnt break 2m even with the massive news. pretty sad.

but who is surprised when we have no crowd and weak feuds/stories in pretty much everything except the wwe title picture.


----------



## xio8ups

1.4 - 1.7 will be the new average


----------



## llj

Anybody expecting numbers to get back to 2m ever again are dreaming. Crowds won't help. This is the natural slide even before the pandemic hit.


----------



## Prosper

"The most-watched segment, as you would figure, was the first one with Lynch and Asuka, which started at 2,149,000 viewers. Bobby Lashley vs. Humberto Carrillo lost 213,000 viewers, which sounds bad, but it started low and gained as the match went on. Angel Garza vs. Akira Tozawa with the post-match of Drew McIntyre and Zelina Vega’s group lost 54,000 viewers. McIntyre vs. Andrade gained 136,000 viewers. The Moment of Bliss and the Alexa Bliss & Nikki Cross vs. Billie Kay & Peyton Royce match gained 3,000 viewers. Ricochet & Cedric Alexander & R-Truth vs. MVP & Brendan Vink & Shane Thorne lost 119,000 viewers. Rey Mysterio & Aleister Black vs. Seth Rollins & Murphy lost 11,000 viewers. The Street Profits-Viking Raiders basketball skit lost 133,000 viewers. Shayna Baszler vs. Natalya lot 12,000 viewers. And to me this is bad considering the money involved, the least-watched segment of the show, dropping 53,000 viewers to 1,728,000, was the final segment with Edge and Randy Orton."

Source: WON


----------



## Deathiscoming

MoxAsylum said:


> Ouch. Becky’s announcement didn’t do much for the ratings. Looks like WWE has chased a lot of people away, plus no fans is really hurting things.


Pushing a bunch of fuckin women ever since 2016, especially ugly trash like four horsewomen, by way of sucking up to the femtards...cough "women's revolution" cough drove most of the viewers away..

You got guys growing up on Stone Cold and Rock being told women can wrestle in HIAC matches lol, or Cringy Lynch's trash segments, trash acting, and trash Irish accent, or Charlotte's ugly face on TV...who would want to watch that?! 

That Becky segment must've been an instant channel-changer, so when you open your show with trash, a few hundred thousand viewers must've decided to not watch at that very moment.

Can't wait until the viewership drops to 1.5M and eventually 1M..


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.818M [19th] | 0.530D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.810M [20th] | 0.530D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.644M [22nd] | 0.480D [5th]

3V | 3D: 1.757M | 0.513D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.008M | - 0.44% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.166M | - 9.17% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.43% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.174M | - 9.57% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.43% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.162M | - 8.44% ]
[ - 0.054D | - 9.52% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.764M | - 30.31% ]
[ - 0.364D | - 41.51% ]*


----------



## Erik.

Way back down


----------



## rbl85

The show would be so much better without this third hour.


----------



## Dr. Jones

rbl85 said:


> The show would be so much better without this third hour.


It never should've been 3 hours in the first place. That's way too much wrestling to sit through at a time every week. It's essentially a 90s PPV every single week. Even during their peak period 98-00 they wouldn't have been able to fill 3 hours effectively, without burning all of their top stars out at breakneck pace

USA are stupid to force the 3rd hour, but they've never been able to come up with their own solid original programming, so they have to drag out RAW


----------



## kazarn

Don't they make a lot of money off the 3rd hour? I agree with you guys though, the show drags too much.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Awful number.

Haven't watched live in years. Can't imagine not being able to fast forward commericials with as boring as this show is.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Haha....Nobody wants to watch geeks and RAW is full of them. The only stars they have on RAW is Edge, Orton and AJ Styles. Everyone else blows chunks.


----------



## Frost99

I'm gonna need a BIGGER chart......


----------



## Deathiscoming

Yep...it's the result of not just Corona lockdown no crowd thing as some idiots claim, but putting 4-5 divas segments/matches on an episode of Raw that also features two goofy tag teams throwing axes, and Baron Corbin in the main event.. 😂  

The WWE will never learn or change.


----------



## SPCDRI

I'm worried for WWE and AEW and other companies. They've all taken a 25 to 30 percent hit in viewership or they can't even run shows now. 
People always say, "Yeah, the viewers left because of X, but they'll come back for Y and Z!"
And then regardless of if Y and Z even happen or not, they don't ever really come back, do they? 
This is some pretty frightening stuff. repeated 1.6 million hour 3s, lowest total viewership for shows ever, etc. Its brutal. I think a lot of people that didn't watch these crowdless, limited roster shows and PPVs for the last few months are not coming back and its going to be a major long term hit for the entire wrestling industry.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> I'm worried for WWE and AEW and other companies. They've all taken a 25 to 30 percent hit in viewership or they can't even run shows now.
> People always say, "Yeah, the viewers left because of X, but they'll come back for Y and Z!"
> And then regardless of if Y and Z even happen or not, they don't ever really come back, do they?
> This is some pretty frightening stuff. repeated 1.6 million hour 3s, lowest total viewership for shows ever, etc. Its brutal. I think a lot of people that didn't watch these crowdless, limited roster shows and PPVs for the last few months are not coming back and its going to be a major long term hit for the entire wrestling industry.


Nobody is saying the viewers are coming back. That ship sailed a long time ago. The big Becky push hurt big time but it only delayed the inevitable. I can’t imagine the buyers remorse at Fox and NBCU now. WWE has the huge advantage of being able to produce new content when most of the world is shut down and they are still plummeting. We could legitimately see Raw under 1 million come the holidays. This round of tv contracts is their swan song as far as being a major tv product goes.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I hope the viewers don't return and viewership declines even more. The WWE deserves it for decades of bad booking, superman Cena, not creating stars, women's revolution BS, pushing a clumsy, cringy, crappy ginger with an annoying Irish Accent as some Alpha Male/Star, etc. And the worst- changing Buddy Murphy's name to just Murphy, just 'cause that big-nosed prick HHH has a daughter named Murphy.


----------



## BPG

you need to broadcast RAW before the target group under 12 goes to sleep


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Yet it still was the highest rated show on cable Monday night.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

SPCDRI said:


> I'm worried for WWE and AEW and other companies. They've all taken a 25 to 30 percent hit in viewership or they can't even run shows now.
> People always say, "Yeah, the viewers left because of X, but they'll come back for Y and Z!"
> And then regardless of if Y and Z even happen or not, they don't ever really come back, do they?
> This is some pretty frightening stuff. repeated 1.6 million hour 3s, lowest total viewership for shows ever, etc. Its brutal. I think a lot of people that didn't watch these crowdless, limited roster shows and PPVs for the last few months are not coming back and its going to be a major long term hit for the entire wrestling industry.


Ratings are what matters to business though, not the total viewers. The reason WWE and AEW are still making good money is because they're still among the top rated shows on their respective nights.


----------



## rbl85

So Meltzer said that the McIntyre vs Corbin did 1.5M.

The axes throwing contest also did bad

The Asuka celebration did well.


----------



## ClintDagger

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yet it still was the highest rated show on cable Monday night.


Which would be fine if NBCU paid half of what the current contract rate is. They paid for a show that was doing 3 million a night and instead they’re getting a show drawing half that. Do you think businesses enjoy getting half of what they paid for? These horrible ratings are going to result in WWE getting a much worse tv contract next time around which will hurt them big time from a shareholder perspective.


----------



## Pippen94

SPCDRI said:


> I'm worried for WWE and AEW and other companies. They've all taken a 25 to 30 percent hit in viewership or they can't even run shows now.
> People always say, "Yeah, the viewers left because of X, but they'll come back for Y and Z!"
> And then regardless of if Y and Z even happen or not, they don't ever really come back, do they?
> This is some pretty frightening stuff. repeated 1.6 million hour 3s, lowest total viewership for shows ever, etc. Its brutal. I think a lot of people that didn't watch these crowdless, limited roster shows and PPVs for the last few months are not coming back and its going to be a major long term hit for the entire wrestling industry.


Khan & McMahon are super rich - why worry for their product? Let them do that


----------



## SPCDRI

Well, we know they are sitting pretty but what about all the people that could get laid off or fired?


----------



## midgetlover69

Hurr durr I wonder why ratings are so bad when the product practically unwatchable


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

People said the same thing about the TV contract this most recent time. Not only did they get another contract, but they got a much better contract for more money. It's amazing people don't learn from their false statements of the past. Not surprised in the least, though. Some folks seemingly enjoy being wrong every step of the way, which is very much the case on this website in particular.


----------



## BPG

I'm waiting for 1.5 million, the product was shitty, the trolls go crazy in the thread about aew


----------



## postmoderno

BPG said:


> I'm waiting for 1.5 million, the product was shitty, the trolls go crazy in the thread about aew


The weekly ratings reveal has become much more entertaining than the product itself.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Gee, I wonder if those two guys above me are the same person or not.

 

No wonder no one posts here anymore.


----------



## BPG

No wonder no one watches this shit anymore.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Last week, they finished 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the most important demo for all of Monday night cable. Someone is.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Just remember, yesterday was a national holiday. Therefore, no ratings today. Completely forgot about that. D'oh!


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> People said the same thing about the TV contract this most recent time. Not only did they get another contract, but they got a much better contract for more money. It's amazing people don't learn from their false statements of the past. Not surprised in the least, though. Some folks seemingly enjoy being wrong every step of the way, which is very much the case on this website in particular.


Except nobody that was actually following the negotiations was saying that at the time. WWE’s ratings were on the upswing last go round and they had Ronda as a relatively new property. What people were saying was that NBCU and Fox were making a big mistake and that they would live to regret these huge contracts. And that’s what has happened. WWE was incredibly lucky with their timing. Not only were their ratings ticking up, but Fox was in a time of upheaval, ESPN won out with UFC, and there was a panicked dash for live programming. The timing was so fortuitous in many ways but I don’t see that happening again. Or are you predicting that WWE will outdo these contracts next time around?

Also, people forget that despite how good the tv contract values look now they actually fell well short of what Vince told shareholders they were going to get. So WWE clearly was already overvaluing themselves and the bar is so high now I think it is impossible short of a sale to Disney for WWE to meet future expectations.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> Except nobody that was actually following the negotiations was saying that at the time. WWE’s ratings were on the upswing last go round and they had Ronda as a relatively new property. What people were saying was that NBCU and Fox were making a big mistake and that they would live to regret these huge contracts. And that’s what has happened. WWE was incredibly lucky with their timing. Not only were their ratings ticking up, but Fox was in a time of upheaval, ESPN won out with UFC, and there was a panicked dash for live programming. The timing was so fortuitous in many ways but I don’t see that happening again. Or are you predicting that WWE will outdo these contracts next time around?
> 
> Also, people forget that despite how good the tv contract values look now they actually fell well short of what Vince told shareholders they were going to get. So WWE clearly was already overvaluing themselves and the bar is so high now I think it is impossible short of a sale to Disney for WWE to meet future expectations.


There were tons of people saying WWE would get a worse contract than what they previously had. There were even a small amount of people saying WWE would be lucky to get a new contract at all. These are facts.

Like I said, it's almost like some folks LOVE being wrong time after time.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> Except nobody that was actually following the negotiations was saying that at the time. WWE’s ratings were on the upswing last go round and they had Ronda as a relatively new property. What people were saying was that NBCU and Fox were making a big mistake and that they would live to regret these huge contracts. And that’s what has happened. WWE was incredibly lucky with their timing. Not only were their ratings ticking up, but Fox was in a time of upheaval, ESPN won out with UFC, and there was a panicked dash for live programming. The timing was so fortuitous in many ways but I don’t see that happening again. Or are you predicting that WWE will outdo these contracts next time around?
> 
> Also, people forget that despite how good the tv contract values look now they actually fell well short of what Vince told shareholders they were going to get. So WWE clearly was already overvaluing themselves and the bar is so high now I think it is impossible short of a sale to Disney for WWE to meet future expectations.


You're absolutely right. What WWE did was part luck and part really, really trying to get those ratings up. It was a modern day version of a ratings sweeps period. For those of you who have been watching for a long time, on WWF Superstars and WWF Wrestling Challenge in the late 80s on most weeks there were only squash matches shown. However, during the months of November and May they would add a "feature match" (Hogan vs Orton in May 1987, Steamboat vs Honkytonk Man rematch in Nov 1987) each week. This was to provide a temporary pop to ratings and as a result lead to eventual increased fees for syndicated stations.

That said, WWE will be extremely, extremely lucky to get a similar deal in 2024. There are such limited levers for them to pull in 2023, which is when the next deal is going to be finalized. Can they realistically drag Goldberg, HHH, Undertaker, or Shawn Michaels back out to pop ratings? Unlikely. And outside of them, there are no other part time stars to tap into now. They're either going to have to book their way out of the ratings decline (possible), or go hard after AEW talent that is currently being built or main eventing (Jon Moxley, MJF, Adam Page, Sammy Guevara). The latter is more likely in a couple of years, although I can also see WWE doing this and then being stubborn headed enough to stick all of them except Moxley into NXT for a year or two, and to "punish" Moxley for his original defection to the new promotion. 

Honestly, I think WWE will be a part of Disney or ESPN by 2025 as opposed to being under a new deal, and then the topic of conversation will be who is now running the promotion. A wrestling person like Paul Levesque, an relatively unknown factor like Eric Bischoff, or someone like Jim Herd.


----------



## SPCDRI

With the passage of time, the Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression Era people will be well and truly long in the tooth by 2024,
Lets say they want to land another 5 year deal. With what?
Randy Orton: 44 years old
Brock Lesnar: 46 years old
John Cena: 47 years old
Edge: 50 years old
The Rock: 52 years old
Triple H: 54 years old
Batista: 55 years old
Bill Goldberg: 57 years old
Shawn Michaels: 58 years old
Undertaker and Kane: 59 and 57 years old
Stone Cold: 59 years old
The McMahon family: Stephanie, 47, Shane, 54, Vince, 78 years old

The next 4 years are utterly vital in pushing some younger talent because it won't be enough to keep trotting out people close to 50 or even close to 60 to juice up ratings.
They'll more or less have to rely on their current roster, plus 4 years of age.

People have been saying this for ages and 2024 is the year when the age really, literally matters.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> There were tons of people saying WWE would get a worse contract than what they previously had. There were even a small amount of people saying WWE would be lucky to get a new contract at all. These are facts.
> 
> Like I said, it's almost like some folks LOVE being wrong time after time.


Like I said, nobody that actually follows this stuff was saying that. Most predictions were for a huge contract. The talk was that ESPN was interested, that there was a mad dash for content, etcetera. Vince was telling shareholders WWE was going to more than double their rights fees. If you’re saying a few clueless morons on the internet were saying X or Y then that’s fine. But the serious discussion never included predictions that WWE would have no tv deals at all. You’re missing the mark big time if you really believe that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> Like I said, nobody that actually follows this stuff was saying that. Most predictions were for a huge contract. The talk was that ESPN was interested, that there was a mad dash for content, etcetera. Vince was telling shareholders WWE was going to more than double their rights fees. If you’re saying a few clueless morons on the internet were saying X or Y then that’s fine. But the serious discussion never included predictions that WWE would have no tv deals at all. You’re missing the mark big time if you really believe that.


There were a number of people on here saying WWE would get a worse contract than what they currently had at that time due to their already declining ratings. Other sites were mostly the same. I'll never forget the initial shock from those people when the new contract was announced that WWE actually got a bigger contract than their previous one. It was quite funny.

Just like the people who said ratings would be better if they put the title on a 'big guy' which Raw and SD has right now, and well, to be kind, let's just say they were once again wrong.

Like I said, it's like some folks enjoy being wrong at this point.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> There were a number of people on here saying WWE would get a worse contract than what they currently had at that time due to their already declining ratings. Other sites were mostly the same. I'll never forget the initial shock from those people when the new contract was announced that WWE actually got a bigger contract than their previous one. It was quite funny.
> 
> Just like the people who said ratings would be better if they put the title on a 'big guy' which Raw and SD has right now, and well, to be kind, let's just say they were once again wrong.
> 
> Like I said, it's like some folks enjoy being wrong at this point.


Who are these people that you continually say are wrong about the ratings all the time? I can’t think of anyone in this thread that gets proven wrong over and over again. Most people just say WWE’s ratings are plummeting and will continue to do so and there’s been nothing wrong about that thus far.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Showstopper said:


> There were a number of people on here saying WWE would get a worse contract than what they currently had at that time due to their already declining ratings. Other sites were mostly the same. I'll never forget the initial shock from those people when the new contract was announced that WWE actually got a bigger contract than their previous one. It was quite funny.
> 
> *Just like the people who said ratings would be better if they put the title on a 'big guy' which Raw and SD has right now, and well, to be kind, let's just say they were once again wrong*.
> 
> Like I said, it's like some folks enjoy being wrong at this point.


Who said that? Brock is the BIGGEST guy there is and the ratings were in the toilet with him holding the belt hostage. I would wager a guess that 60-70% of this board is in agreement that *no one* on the entire roster is going to have that much of a positive effect on the ratings as champion

They spent too many years trying to force Reigns down everyone's throat and now they have a roster where nobody matters.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dr. Jones said:


> Who said that? Brock is the BIGGEST guy there is and the ratings were in the toilet with him holding the belt hostage. I would wager a guess that 60-70% of this board is in agreement that *no one* on the entire roster is going to have that much of a positive effect on the ratings as champion
> 
> They spent too many years trying to force Reigns down everyone's throat and now they have a roster where nobody matters.


I agree with everything you said here 100% which is what made it absolutely hilarious last year when some folks were saying this when Seth and Kofi were champs. Well, here we are, one year later, two gigantic people in Braun and Drew are Champions, and the ratings are worse.

I could name a name, but I'm trying to be nice.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> Who are these people that you continually say are wrong about the ratings all the time? I can’t think of anyone in this thread that gets proven wrong over and over again. Most people just say WWE’s ratings are plummeting and will continue to do so and there’s been nothing wrong about that thus far.


Yet, every week in the demo all three hours finish in the top 5 for the night in the most important demo.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.806M [8th] | 0.520D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.726M [11th] | 0.500D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.673M [12th] | 0.500D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.735M | 0.507D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.080M | - 4.43% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.85% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.053M | - 3.07% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.133M | - 7.36% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.85% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.022M | - 1.25% ]
[ - 0.006D | - 1.17% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.455M | - 20.78% ]
[ - 0.213D | - 29.58% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

There you go. All three hours of Raw finished in the Top 4 highest rated hours in all of cable on Monday night in the all important demo everyone(the TV industry and fans) jerks off to.


----------



## Ace

Is that an all time low?


----------



## postmoderno

Showstopper said:


> There you go. All three hours of Raw finished in the Top 4 highest rated hours in all of cable on Monday night in the all important demo everyone(the TV industry and fans) jerks off to.


I see the weekly decline and I'm going home happy. Another good show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

postmoderno said:


> I see the weekly decline and I'm going home happy. Another good show.


All 3 hours were the 4 most watched hours of cable tv in the demo on Monday night. They're happy. Only other wrestling show in America that does better than Raw is SD, which is on Network TV, and barely does better.


----------



## postmoderno

Showstopper said:


> All 3 hours were the 4 most watched hours of cable tv in the demo on Monday night. They're happy. Only other wrestling show in America that does better than Raw is SD, which is on Network TV, and barely does better.


They're happy, I'm happy, you're happy (I assume), we're all happy! Until next week!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

postmoderno said:


> They're happy, I'm happy, you're happy (I assume), we're all happy! Until next week!


Absolutely! And don't forget NBCU (USA) and FOX.

It feels good to not feel the need to troll anymore when you're a happier person. Feels good, man.


----------



## postmoderno

Showstopper said:


> Absolutely! And don't forget NBCU (USA) and FOX.
> 
> It feels good to not feel the need to troll anymore when you're a happier person. Feels good, man.
> 
> Now to watch the rocket launch into space in the next 12 mins or so. GREATEST country in the world!


I may have been misinformed, but I heard the rocket launch was cancelled. . .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

postmoderno said:


> I may have been misinformed, but I heard the rocket launch was cancelled. . .


Yeah it is for now due to the weather.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Yet, every week in the demo all three hours finish in the top 5 for the night in the most important demo.


WWE’s demos are horrible.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> WWE’s demos are horrible.


Just like once bigger guys are champion the ratings will go up.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Just like once bigger guys are champion the ratings will go up.


What does that have to do with WWE’s demos being horrible? You seem to be randomly pulling stuff out of your ass that has nothing to do with the people posting in this thread. If you want to track down people that said bigger guys will automatically equal better ratings or who said WWE’s last round of contracts will definitely be less than the contracts two periods ago then find those people and call them out. Otherwise I’m confused as to what point you’re trying to make unless it’s just throwing a temper tantrum because these record low ratings bother you.


----------



## Cosmo77

no one wants to watch CAW wrestlers or glorified gym ppl on raw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ClintDagger said:


> What does that have to do with WWE’s demos being horrible? You seem to be randomly pulling stuff out of your ass that has nothing to do with the people posting in this thread. If you want to track down people that said bigger guys will automatically equal better ratings or who said WWE’s last round of contracts will definitely be less than the contracts two periods ago then find those people and call them out. Otherwise I’m confused as to what point you’re trying to make unless it’s just throwing a temper tantrum because these record low ratings bother you.


Pretty sure you were one of them saying that about bigger guys last year, big guy. All 3 hours of Raw are amongst the top 3 hours watched of cable TV every week on Monday nights. This is why WWE got a bigger contract than what most thought they would get.

Like I said yesterday, it's like people enjoy being wrong. That's fine by me.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Pretty sure you were one of them saying that about bigger guys last year, big guy. All 3 hours of Raw are amongst the top 3 hours watched of cable TV every week on Monday nights. This is why WWE got a bigger contract than what most thought they would get.
> 
> Like I said yesterday, it's like people enjoy being wrong. That's fine by me.


Never said that. I’ve always said you need promo guys on top. The only thing I’ve ever said about wrestlers’ appearance is that they need to look like physical threats and not like the fans. But that’s not about looking like Sid Vicious or anything. I don’t think even you could disagree with that. Unless you’re saying a roster full of James Ellsworth types would be great for business.

In any event, the only person continually wrong here is you by attributing to me that I said putting the belt on big dudes automatically means better ratings. I never said that. What is needed are well rounded top acts. Randy Savage was not a huge guy but he drew like gangbusters. As long as you can believably look like a physical threat that’s all that is needed.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

These numbers are awful. It would be like if MNF went from 11-12 M down to 5M in a matter of 5 maybe 6 years.


----------



## Dr. Jones

CMPunkRock316 said:


> These numbers are awful. It would be like if MNF went from 11-12 M down to 5M in a matter of 5 maybe 6 years.


But But But. The best demos. WWE is the best it's ever been. I'm always right and you're always wrong. Pat myself on the back


----------



## postmoderno

Ace said:


> Is that an all time low?


nah, the all time low was 3 weeks ago at 1.686 average.


ClintDagger said:


> Never said that. I’ve always said you need promo guys on top. The only thing I’ve ever said about wrestlers’ appearance is that they need to look like physical threats and not like the fans. But that’s not about looking like Sid Vicious or anything. I don’t think even you could disagree with that. Unless you’re saying a roster full of James Ellsworth types would be great for business.
> 
> In any event, the only person continually wrong here is you by attributing to me that I said putting the belt on big dudes automatically means better ratings. I never said that. What is needed are well rounded top acts. Randy Savage was not a huge guy but he drew like gangbusters. As long as you can believably look like a physical threat that’s all that is needed.


Agreed that promo skills are very important, which is part of the problem. It seems like a lot of the talent are forced to recite scripted, contrived garbage. Catch phrases and certain key words are repeated over and over. It is mind numbing and painful to watch.

Macho man is a great example in this case because his promos were gold. Hell, I can watch the same one today that I've already seen dozens of times and it's still entertaining. It makes what passes for promo work today even more glaringly awful.


----------



## Seafort

postmoderno said:


> nah, the all time low was 3 weeks ago at 1.686 average.
> 
> Agreed that promo skills are very important, which is part of the problem. It seems like a lot of the talent are forced to recite scripted, contrived garbage. Catch phrases and certain key words are repeated over and over. It is mind numbing and painful to watch.


I know. Take Drew McIntyre for an example...how many times does Michael Cole have to say "Scottish Psychopath" during his match? Or with Seth Rollins, how many times are we reminded that he is "The Monday Night Messiah"? Or before that..."The Lunatic Fringe". Dozens of times during the course of a match.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> All 3 hours were the 4 most watched hours of cable tv in the demo on Monday night. They're happy. Only other wrestling show in America that does better than Raw is SD, which is on Network TV, and barely does better.


Indeed. It's truly a new Golden Era for WWE, matching or perhaps even surpassing 1989 or 1999. The wrestlers are unique, totally mainstream, and truly household names.


----------



## The XL 2

WWE is at the point where they cant afford to bleed any more of their audience.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Seafort said:


> Indeed. It's truly a new Golden Era for WWE, matching or perhaps even surpassing 1989 or 1999. The wrestlers are unique, totally mainstream, and truly household names.


You don't gotta get all mad, brother.


----------



## ClintDagger

The XL 2 said:


> WWE is at the point where they cant afford to bleed any more of their audience.


I don’t think they have a choice in the matter. What bullets do they have left to shoot? What levers can they pull that they haven’t already tried? The Covid stuff in some ways (IE tv ratings) was the best thing that could have happened to them because NBCU and Fox are giving them a pass on these horrid numbers—even though the numbers would probably be right here anyways regardless of Covid (that’s my $0.02 at least). When things go back to normal and if these ratings don’t pop back up well above the 2MM mark I would expect the networks to really put heat on WWE. USA was already putting heat on them before Covid.


----------



## DaSlacker

Hasn't big league pro wrestling always ruled the basic cable ratings and overnight demos? Going back to the days of Prime Time and WCW/Saturday Night? From what I can remember they were always hanging the top spot, even in the mid 90's, unless NFL or College Football was on TNT or ESPN. Of course, back in those days of VHS rental, movies also did strong ratings. They had a bit competition if something on Nick became a hit, like Rugrats or SpongeBob. Generally was always the schedule wasteland. Then in 1997-2000 wrestling excelled itself and then some. But it has fallen back down to a low. The competition hasn't improved, however:

American Dad (15 year old cartoon)
Teen Titans Go
90 Day Fiance
Amy Schumer learning to cook
Street outlaws spinoff
TI reality show

After 35 years in the 9pm Monday slot and with 3 hours to play with, it would be horrific if they couldn't win the demo!


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> I don’t think they have a choice in the matter. What bullets do they have left to shoot? What levers can they pull that they haven’t already tried? The Covid stuff in some ways (IE tv ratings) was the best thing that could have happened to them because NBCU and Fox are giving them a pass on these horrid numbers—even though the numbers would probably be right here anyways regardless of Covid (that’s my $0.02 at least). When things go back to normal and if these ratings don’t pop back up well above the 2MM mark I would expect the networks to really put heat on WWE. USA was already putting heat on them before Covid.


There are plenty of things that they COULD try. In theory. But they won't, because they are stuck on doing the same things in the same way, over and over again, despite the fact that it leads to a trash product that is losing viewers.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> You don't gotta get all mad, brother.


I'm not. Just gently kidding, my friend. I get your point. By the metrics that WWE is most tied to now, they're doing quite well. The audience they serve is now not the millions of fans who make up their "Universe". Rather, it's the executives at FOX and USA who provide the deals that are keeping them afloat.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

from @wrestlenomics


The interesting thing is he's also posted this:









Less people paying for cable after 2009, less people watching RAW after 2009. Makes sense. But of course, less people have been watching since 2001.


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> There are plenty of things that they COULD try. In theory. But they won't, because they are stuck on doing the same things in the same way, over and over again, despite the fact that it leads to a trash product that is losing viewers.


Like what? At some point you can change the playbook, you can fire the coaching staff and bring in a new one, but if you don’t have the talent you can’t win big. That’s where WWE is. Of course the creative & booking could be better but you still need the horses and WWE has an empty barn.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

*Just six years ago

Last night's (May 12, 2014) episode of Monday Night Raw from Greenville, South Carolina, featured Daniel Bryan confirming rumors and officially announcing that he is suffering from a neck injury and he will need surgery to repair whatever issues he's having this coming Thursday night.

Well, the viewership for this show continued its steady decline over the past three weeks, going from 4.61 million viewers on down to 4.27 million viewers and resting at 4.00 million viewers for this week's episode.

The hourly breakdown:

Hour one: 3.81 million
Hour two: 4.25 million
Hour three: 3.96 million*


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> Like what? At some point you can change the playbook, you can fire the coaching staff and bring in a new one, but if you don’t have the talent you can’t win big. That’s where WWE is. Of course the creative & booking could be better but you still need the horses and WWE has an empty barn.


Begin fresh and rely on all the talent to do their own promos and commentary generate their own material as well, or at the very least, have creative allow them more than a token amount of influence in crafting it. Yes, some of it will be bad--elevate those who are better than others, replace the ones who aren't, or give them mouthpieces/managers as was commonly done back in the day. Surely there are people within the company who can teach this specifically, if not there are others out there who can do it. Yes, it will be rough at first, but anything is better than listening to the talent and commentary spout canned lines in a way that nobody talks like in real life. It lends a monotony to the show that is agonizing. This is just one seemingly small, but in reality big, change that can be made.

What's the worst that can happen? Ratings go down? They've already been doing that for years and years.


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> Begin fresh and rely on all the talent to do their own promos and commentary generate their own material as well, or at the very least, have creative allow them more than a token amount of influence in crafting it. Yes, some of it will be bad--elevate those who are better than others, replace the ones who aren't, or give them mouthpieces/managers as was commonly done back in the day. Surely there are people within the company who can teach this specifically, if not there are others out there who can do it. Yes, it will be rough at first, but anything is better than listening to the talent and commentary spout canned lines in a way that nobody talks like in real life. It lends a monotony to the show that is agonizing. This is just one seemingly small, but in reality big, change that can be made.
> 
> What's the worst that can happen? Ratings go down? They've already been doing that for years and years.


This isn’t the 90s. If it was and you had a bunch of guys that came up through the territory system I would 1000% agree with you. But this group of wrestlers needs to be heavily scripted. It’s really all they all know.

But, I agree that it wouldn’t hurt to at least try that and see what happens.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

ClintDagger said:


> WWE’s demos are horrible.


They are great, .51 was the best on Monday Night across the board!!! I was pumped Dynamite got a .32, I think I might have a small heart attack if they had a .51!!!

People hating on Raw don't get it. Ratings are down, yes, the womens revolution bullshit ran A LOT of fans off. But they are still on top of the mountain!!


----------



## ClintDagger

TKO Wrestling said:


> They are great, .51 was the best on Monday Night across the board!!! I was pumped Dynamite got a .32, I think I might have a small heart attack if they had a .51!!!
> 
> People hating on Raw don't get it. Ratings are down, yes, the womens revolution bullshit ran A LOT of fans off. But they are still on top of the mountain!!


You’re the one that doesn’t get it. WWE’s demos are awful. Their fans are low income and also low on the education scale. The key demo in and of itself is actually pretty meaningless to advertisers as they look at things at a much more granular level than just the age buckets. The holy grail of advertisers is auto manufacturers and the reason they don’t advertise on WWE programming is because of how awful the WWE demo is. WWE’s advertisers are largely fast food chains and cheap insurance.

By the way, I doubt anyone in here actually knows why the so called key demo started getting pushed in the industry so much harder than the raw audience numbers.


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> By the way, I doubt anyone in here actually knows why the so called key demo started getting pushed in the industry so much harder than the raw audience numbers.


No need to tease it like that, let's hear it!


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> This isn’t the 90s. If it was and you had a bunch of guys that came up through the territory system I would 1000% agree with you. But this group of wrestlers needs to be heavily scripted. It’s really all they all know.
> 
> But, I agree that it wouldn’t hurt to at least try that and see what happens.


You mean the wrestlers in WWE need to be scripted or wrestling talent in general? Because the talent over in AEW are not scripted word for word and they do great most of the time. The ball and chain promos are definitely a problem and people can see right through it.


----------



## rbl85

I fear this show is going to suffer from the news.


----------



## ClintDagger

prosperwithdeen said:


> You mean the wrestlers in WWE need to be scripted or wrestling talent in general? Because the talent over in AEW are not scripted word for word and they do great most of the time. The ball and chain promos are definitely a problem and people can see right through it.


I’m mostly referring to the WWE talent. But let’s not pretend like the promos in AEW are all that better either. Nobody is setting the world on fire promo wise.


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> I’m mostly referring to the WWE talent. But let’s not pretend like the promos in AEW are all that better either. Nobody is setting the world on fire promo wise.


Moxley, Cody, MJF, and PAC all cut fire promos lol what are you talking about. Tully just cut one of the best promos of the year. It’s definitely a far cry and you’d have to be biased to say that promos are not much better over there. There’s no pretending there’s only what you see in front of you lol. No competition.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.810M [34th] | 0.530D [12th]
V2 | D2: 1.803M [35th] | 0.520D [13th]
V3 | D3: 1.571M [42nd] | 0.430D [17th]

3V | 3D: 1.728M | 0.493D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.007M | - 0.39% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.89% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.232M | - 12.87% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 17.31% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.239M | - 13.20% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 18.87% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.007M | - 0.40% ]
[ - 0.014D | - 2.76% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.677M | - 28.15% ]
[ - 0.287D | - 36.79% ]*


----------



## kazarn

The third hour lmaooo


----------



## IamMark




----------



## DaSlacker

Wow, the crazy news killed their demo last night. Don't watch but on paper it reads like a relatively well thought out show: 

Rollins segment first, followed by first ever match between Seth and Aleistair
US Title match
Asuka/Charlotte
Randy Orton promo
WWE Champion in action against MVP

They'll be up by 50,000 viewers next week and then 100,000+ the next. But that last hour viewership and demo has to be a sign of where things are heading once live sport resumes.


----------



## kazarn

The third hour is a massive drag. Who wants to watch 3 hours of Raw? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'm guessing not many peoole. It would drag even if the product was good let alone in 2020 when it mostly sucks.


----------



## Aewwe

Yeah, it must be very hard for someone on the East coast of the US sitting down at 8pm and then having to sit through 3 hours until the very end. It's on at 1am here so I always record to watch the next day, and can easily watch it in like 1 hr 40 mins and literally not miss anything that I haven't seen. When you fastforward all the ad breaks and recap stuff from earlier in the night, it makes it much more manageable, but I can't really imagine having to sit through 3 hours straight, if watching life. That said, I guess with NFL and other US sports, the core market will be more used to watching sport / sports entertainment interrupted by a lot of commercials.


----------



## postmoderno

DaSlacker said:


> Wow, the crazy news killed their demo last night. Don't watch but on paper it reads like a relatively well thought out show:
> 
> Rollins segment first, followed by first ever match between Seth and Aleistair
> US Title match
> Asuka/Charlotte
> Randy Orton promo
> WWE Champion in action against MVP
> 
> They'll be up by 50,000 viewers next week and then 100,000+ the next. But that last hour viewership and demo has to be a sign of where things are heading once live sport resumes.


They were good matches in theory but in reality, the show was the same dawdling, commercial laden snoozefest it always is.


----------



## rbl85

kazarn said:


> The third hour is a massive drag. Who wants to watch 3 hours of Raw? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'm guessing not many peoole. It would drag even if the product was good let alone in 2020 when it mostly sucks.


The sad thing is that the third hour could be great or perfect, it will always lose a ton of viewers because 3 hours is just too much.


----------



## troyag93

With all that’s going on with the news, 1.8 for the first 2 hours aren’t bad considering That’s where they’ve been the last 2 months.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

12th, 13th and 17th Holy shit that is terrible.

I only watched clips online I can't watch it til they back to real crowds and not that lame plexiglass shit.


----------



## ClintDagger

prosperwithdeen said:


> Moxley, Cody, MJF, and PAC all cut fire promos lol what are you talking about. Tully just cut one of the best promos of the year. It’s definitely a far cry and you’d have to be biased to say that promos are not much better over there. There’s no pretending there’s only what you see in front of you lol. No competition.


All of those guys would be mid card level talent in a boom period. Your standards for what constitutes a great promo is very low IMO. It’s funny that you try to paint me as biased because I have an opinion you don’t like.


----------



## llj

If they cut out the third hour the show would be regularly only about 200k or so behind Smackdown's numbers.

That being said, USA probably has nothing else better to air at 10pm so that's why you get a 3 hour show.

They still overpaid massively for RAW though, as did Fox for Smackdown.


----------



## DaSlacker

llj said:


> If they cut out the third hour the show would be regularly only about 200k or so behind Smackdown's numbers.
> 
> That being said, USA probably has nothing else better to air at 10pm so that's why you get a 3 hour show.
> 
> They still overpaid massively for RAW though, as did Fox for Smackdown.


I don't think they should be longer than 90 minutes in length these days. And Smackdown should look and feel A LOT different to Raw (admittedly this is difficult at the moment). Wrestling always had its 'every demographic' fan base but generally attracted kids. I'd argue that even two, two hour shows, is too much for the smartphone generation.

NBCUniversal is using WWE as a support system for its dying cable network model. Vince is pimping it out for as much money as possible. But in the long term Raw will be like a burnt out porn star.


----------



## JTB33b

No fans just takes all the entertainment out of it. It's pointless to me having scripted matches with no audience. I would have rather they shut down everything until they were allowed to have fans. Plus the superstars could use a vacation and to heal up.


----------



## Fearless Viper

I was told by the dorks around here back then on 2018 that WWE would get lesser deal compared to their deal at that time and yet they come 2019 they received the biggest tv deal that a wrestling could ever get. 

Conclusion: Smarks don't know ajy shit about wrestling business. I wouldn't be surprised if WWE gets a same if not even better tv deal on 2024 too.


----------



## ClintDagger

Fearless Viper said:


> I was told by the dorks around here back then on 2018 that WWE would get lesser deal compared to their deal at that time and yet they come 2019 they received the biggest tv deal that a wrestling could ever get.
> 
> Conclusion: Smarks don't know ajy shit about wrestling business. I wouldn't be surprised if WWE gets a same if not even better tv deal on 2024 too.


First of all, nobody that was following the story thought WWE was taking a pay cut. Vince predicted WWE would double their rights fees (they didn’t) and their ratings were on an uptick. It was clear their timing was great.

But I have to ask, do you think if WWE continues to lose audience at the same clip they have since the new contracts kicked in that they will do better than last time contract wise? They are now losing viewership at a much faster rate than the average.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Fearless Viper said:


> I was told by the dorks around here back then on 2018 that WWE would get lesser deal compared to their deal at that time and yet they come 2019 they received the biggest tv deal that a wrestling could ever get.
> 
> Conclusion: Smarks don't know ajy shit about wrestling business. I wouldn't be surprised if WWE gets a same if not even better tv deal on 2024 too.


WWE was averaging around 3.2 million viewers in the year leading up to that last deal being signed. They now average 1.8 million and that number will probably get worse over the next several years. If your audience is cut in half, it's doubtful you'll get paid the same. WWE probably sells their business, or they put all their stuff on WWE Network. Every TV show is eventually cancelled and WWE is on it's last legs just like any long running soap opera


----------



## Randy Lahey

IamMark said:


>


Beaten by the news, and Below Deck lmao...

The NFL is going to absolutely destroy Raw this fall. You saw how many people tuned in for the NFL draft, there's going to be fans starving to see pro sports, fans or not. Can't say the same about wrestling.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> WWE was averaging around 3.2 million viewers in the year leading up to that last deal being signed. They now average 1.8 million and that number will probably get worse over the next several years. If your audience is cut in half, it's doubtful you'll get paid the same. WWE probably sells their business, or they put all their stuff on WWE Network. Every TV show is eventually cancelled and WWE is on it's last legs just like any long running soap opera


Sometimes it doesn't even matter about ratings. WCW in 2000 were still rating higher on TBS and TNT than every other scripted show they had. Hell, viewership was in the same ballpark as 1991-1994. But one major corporate decision and they are dead.

I'd be surprised if NBC gives a shit about USA Network in 3 years. Certainly not enough to drop 1 billion on a business worth 3 billion because NBC overpaid in the first place.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.827M [14th] | 0.550D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.790M [16th] | 0.550D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.595M [23rd] | 0.480D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.737M | 0.527D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.037M | - 2.03% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.195M | - 10.89% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.73% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.232M | - 12.70% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.73% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.009M | + 0.52% ]
[ + 0.034D | + 6.90% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.388M | - 18.26% ]
[ - 0.136D | - 20.51% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

I guess this is where we're at now. You could take 3 hours of footage of monkeys flinging poo at each other, call it RAW, and about 1.7 m people will tune in.

Ah well.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

The Raw discussion thread has 225 comments. A random Raw thread from November 2015 that I bookmarked since it was the last time I watched a live Raw start to finish had over 2,000!

It's sad. I kind of miss the old threads. So many people just gave up once Reigns was done burying everyone and it was clear nothing was going to change with Vince in charge.


----------



## Ace

Is that an all time low third hr?


----------



## Erik.

Ace said:


> Is that an all time low third hr?


Last weeks was lower.


----------



## rbl85

Ace said:


> Is that an all time low third hr?


Nope but it might be the third or fourth


----------



## ClintDagger

Soul Man Danny B said:


> The Raw discussion thread has 225 comments. A random Raw thread from November 2015 that I bookmarked since it was the last time I watched a live Raw start to finish had over 2,000!
> 
> It's sad. I kind of miss the old threads. So many people just gave up once Reigns was done burying everyone and it was clear nothing was going to change with Vince in charge.


Really don’t think we can blame Reigns. The last time he was getting the mega push the ratings ticked up. Then last year after the Becky stuff just absolutely killed the ratings Reigns came back and they ticked up again.


----------



## MoxAsylum

ClintDagger said:


> Really don’t think we can blame Reigns. The last time he was getting the mega push the ratings ticked up. Then last year after the Becky stuff just absolutely killed the ratings Reigns came back and they ticked up again.


Reigns is a star and attracts casuals. The current geeks don’t draw. Reigns actually looks larger than life compared to half the roster


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> Reigns is a star and attracts casuals. The current geeks don’t draw. Reigns actually looks larger than life compared to half the roster


We’re actually the geeks here. Of course we’re not going to draw casual fans 

For the record, no single wrestler in WWE really draws anymore.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

ClintDagger said:


> Really don’t think we can blame Reigns. The last time he was getting the mega push the ratings ticked up. Then last year after the Becky stuff just absolutely killed the ratings Reigns came back and they ticked up again.


I am pretty sure it was interest around Ronda Rousey's debut and is Brock Done that caused that slight bump up.


----------



## sideon

They deserve that embarrassing rating after deciding that opening and closing the show with Charlotte was a good idea.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> Really don’t think we can blame Reigns. The last time he was getting the mega push the ratings ticked up. Then last year after the Becky stuff just absolutely killed the ratings Reigns came back and they ticked up again.


I blame their main event booking of their champions from 2015 forward. Let's see:

April 2015 - Nov 2015: Held by a cowardly heel champion in Seth Rollins aided by numerous outside factors (J&J Security, Kane)
Jan - Apr 2016: Held by a part-time heel world champion in HHH
Apr 2017 - Aug 2018: Held by a part time heel world champion in Brock Lesnar who only appeared a handful of times a year
Oct 2019 - Mar 2020: Held by a part time heel world champion in Brock Lesnar who only appeared a handful of times a year


----------



## Chan Hung

As a fan of the product for life, i must say this that this may be worse than the Diesel era. I tune in and its unbearable. Smackdown isn't great but it's a tad better. The problem is the storylines are shit, the characters are bland and boring and you know it's bad when the Raw re runs on youtube (short 30 second-1 min) videos don't excite you.


----------



## ClintDagger

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I am pretty sure it was interest around Ronda Rousey's debut and is Brock Done that caused that slight bump up.


Reigns was the focal point of that WM. Sure Brock and Ronda contributed too but my point is that Reigns was not a negative. All I’m saying is that Reigns gets blamed for the ratings falling off a cliff and the history doesn’t back that up. It’s pretty clear when fans tuned out in droves and the WM “bump” ceased to exist.


----------



## JTB33b

MoxAsylum said:


> Reigns is a star and attracts casuals. The current geeks don’t draw. Reigns actually looks larger than life compared to half the roster


Larger than life looks don't bring ratings. Larger than life personalities and charisma do. Reigns has the look of a star but has no charisma and a dud personality. The Rock,Hogan, and Austin brought huge ratings because of their larger than life charisma and personality. People overestimate how many casual viewers Reigns attracts. If he attracted such viewers, then why do the ratings still suck when he was on top?


----------



## DaSlacker

Chan Hung said:


> As a fan of the product for life, i must say this that this may be worse than the Diesel era. I tune in and its unbearable. Smackdown isn't great but it's a tad better. The problem is the storylines are shit, the characters are bland and boring and you know it's bad when the Raw re runs on youtube (short 30 second-1 min) videos don't excite you.


This is WAY worse than the Diesel era. They've been on life support for years and relying on the good will of fans from yesteryear. The lack of an audience is the death blow which has caused the company that brought you Hulkamania versus Andre the Giant and the Attitude Era to now resemble a parody show in a school gym. The return of live sport will absolutely demolish Raw.

I know it wasn't possible but going off air at WrestleMania before doing a full reboot in September wouldn't have tarnished their image like Empty Arena Era has.


----------



## postmoderno

I do not get the constant bickering about who the champion is/was and their supposed effect on ratings. The fact is, when you have a show that is wall to wall garbage in every way--booking, promos, production, on and on--it doesn't much matter who is champ and who isn't.


----------



## DammitChrist

postmoderno said:


> *I do not get the constant bickering about who the champion is/was and their supposed effect on ratings.* The fact is, when you have a show that is wall to wall garbage in every way--booking, promos, production, on and on--*it doesn't much matter who is champ and who isn't.*


It's funny that no matter how many times we repeat this true statement over the past couple of years (AT LEAST) on here, some folks will continue to be ignorant by picking and choosing who to blame for the low ratings when in reality the viewership will be approximately the same regardless of who's getting pushed or who's the world champion.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> Really don’t think we can blame Reigns. The last time he was getting the mega push the ratings ticked up. Then last year after the Becky stuff just absolutely killed the ratings Reigns came back and they ticked up again.


Man you are a relentless stupid fucker.

Your retarded take on Becky killing ratings is the stupidest shit ever and at least be consistent to it.

Becky was pushed as the focus of RAW for literally 2 weeks (in a terrible storyline) only and you blame entire RTWM and Year on her. Do you realize how retarded that sounds? blaming ratings collapse on 2 weeks of TV?


Despite geeks like you and @Ace quoting Dave Meltzer to me that Becky wasn’t a draw, only for him to end up saying she was the biggest ratings mover in WWE.

You claim that Becky killed the ratings and then go around and claim because she killed the ratings (which she didn’t, there was a drop from the year earlier, there was a drop this year), she was no longer getting segment and TV Time and they “had to” bring in Batista and Angle or whatever shit you come up with. And Becky and Ronda still outdraw them. A concept you stupid idiot need to understand is investment to increase someone’s drawing, and Becky by later 2019 was a much bigger star than early 2019.
Look the last time RAW did +2.1m, it was Becky’s segment and since then they haven’t come close to it.
If there’s 200K people watching only for Becky, you better STFU about her not being a draw.


----------



## ClintDagger

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny that no matter how many times we repeat this true statement over the past couple of years (AT LEAST) on here, some folks will continue to be ignorant by picking and choosing who to blame for the low ratings when in reality the viewership will be approximately the same regardless of who's getting pushed or who's the world champion.


The numbers don’t support this theory which is why some people push back on it. If the decline was a very steady month over month drop over the course of many years then that theory would have merit. But when you look at the ratings charts there are many anomalies. There are periods of slow & steady drops. There are periods of rebounds. There are periods of huge drops. There are seasonality patterns and then periods where the trend doesn’t match those seasonality patterns. The talent and how are they are used does matter. Or at least it did up until say 12-18 months ago. Things may be at a point of no return now where what they do makes no difference whatsoever.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man you are a relentless stupid fucker.
> 
> Your retarded take on Becky killing ratings is the stupidest shit ever and at least be consistent to it.
> 
> Becky was pushed as the focus of RAW for literally 2 weeks (in a terrible storyline) only and you blame entire RTWM and Year on her. Do you realize how retarded that sounds? blaming ratings collapse on 2 weeks of TV?
> 
> 
> Despite geeks like you and @Ace quoting Dave Meltzer to me that Becky wasn’t a draw, only for him to end up saying she was the biggest ratings mover in WWE.
> 
> You claim that Becky killed the ratings and then go around and claim because she killed the ratings (which she didn’t, there was a drop from the year earlier, there was a drop this year), she was no longer getting segment and TV Time and they “had to” bring in Batista and Angle or whatever shit you come up with. And Becky and Ronda still outdraw them. A concept you stupid idiot need to understand is investment to increase someone’s drawing, and Becky by later 2019 was a much bigger star than early 2019.
> Look the last time RAW did +2.1m, it was Becky’s segment and since then they haven’t come close to it.
> If there’s 200K people watching only for Becky, you better STFU about her not being a draw.


lol ignore the fact Becky had a return before that and did fuck all for ratings. Fuck they may have even dropped.

They hyped up her announcement and people speculated she was pregnant. It's like calling Roman a draw since one Raw ep got a bump because of his cancer update..

Reality is the company has DIED since she became the FOTC. No two fucking ways about it.


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> lol ignore the fact Becky had a return before that and did fuck all for ratings. Fuck they may have even dropped.
> 
> They hyped up her announcement and people speculated she was pregnant. It's like calling Roman a draw since one Raw ep got a bump because of his cancer update..
> 
> *Reality is the company has DIED since she became the FOTC. No two fucking ways about it.*


You need a reality check then bud. Delusional.

Either Meltzer is credible or not.

Either Getting BY FAR the biggest rating within 2months is proof she's draw or not.

Fact is, she moves ratings upwards. She's also not the sole FOTC. Maybe it's the others doing things wrong. But being retarded because they pushed Becky/Ronda/Charlotte for 2 weeks in February and blaming the entire ratings for the past 1.5 year on that is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

Idiot haters looking to jump the gun looked at the Post-Rumble RAW rating and decided to blame Becky for it when she literally had appeared 2min unadvertised on the show. Lesnar couldn't draw shit in the 3rd segment destroying Seth.
The next 2 weeks people had more interest in Ronda/Becky after that first night, so they focused on them, but of course WWE put them in a terrible storyline that no one wanted. These *2 weeks*, where WWE was literally doing nothing except focus on the women, before the mid-feb show with Batista/Flair, are all you got. And they donn't even make sense.
So how about you shut the fuck and actually start noticing trends instead of spouting shit like a moron with an agenda.

*She's also proved she move numbers when they did her network special the first time, appearing on Austin's show, when she appeared in NXT (last time they touched a 1m viewers). So seriously, stfu.*



ClintDagger said:


> he talent and how are they are used does matter. Or at least it did up until say *12-18 months ago.* Things may be at a point of no return now where what they do makes no difference whatsoever.


This is the stupid shit I'm talking about. This mysogynist fucker is blaming the past 18months on 2 weeks. And nothing after or before that matters. Not even the circumstances of those 2 weeks. What a fucking loser.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> You need a reality check then bud. Delusional.
> 
> Either Meltzer is credible or not.
> 
> Either Getting BY FAR the biggest rating within 2months is proof she's draw or not.
> 
> Fact is, she moves ratings upwards. She's also not the sole FOTC. Maybe it's the others doing things wrong. But being retarded because they pushed Becky/Ronda/Charlotte for 2 weeks in February and blaming the entire ratings for the past 1.5 year on that is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
> 
> Idiot haters looking to jump the gun looked at the Post-Rumble RAW rating and decided to blame Becky for it when she literally had appeared 2min unadvertised on the show. Lesnar couldn't draw shit in the 3rd segment destroying Seth.
> The next 2 weeks people had more interest in Ronda/Becky after that first night, so they focused on them, but of course WWE put them in a terrible storyline that no one wanted. These *2 weeks*, where WWE was literally doing nothing except focus on the women, before the mid-feb show with Batista/Flair, are all you got. And they donn't even make sense.
> So how about you shut the fuck and actually start noticing trends instead of spouting shit like a moron with an agenda.
> 
> *She's also proved she move numbers when they did her network special the first time, appearing on Austin's show, when she appeared in NXT (last time they touched a 1m viewers). So seriously, stfu.*
> 
> 
> 
> This is the stupid shit I'm talking about. This mysogynist fucker is blaming the past 18months on 2 weeks. And nothing after or before that matters. Not even the circumstances of those 2 weeks. What a fucking loser.


Do you want to talk about the Becky's best matches and 24 ep which bombed on FS1? One of them didn't even do well enough to rank in the top 150.

The company fell apart around the time of her ascension, you can try to deny it but it's true. They haven't recovered since.

Becky has her legion of hardcore fans but there's a greater number of people who don't want to watch her. That's why they call her an anti-draw and say she has change the channel heat.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Ace said:


> Do you want to talk about the Becky's best matches and 24 ep which bombed on FS1? One of them didn't even do well enough to rank in the top 150.
> 
> The company fell apart around the time of her ascension, you can try to deny it but it's true. They haven't recovered since.
> 
> Becky has her legion of hardcore fans but there's a greater number of people who don't want to watch her. That's why they call her an anti-draw and say she has change the channel heat.


From mania 35 to 36 almost 1 million people stopped watching


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> *Do you want to talk about the Becky's best matches and 24 ep which bombed on FS1?* One of them didn't even do well enough to rank in the top 150.
> 
> The company fell apart around the time of her ascension, you can try to deny it but it's true. They haven't recovered since.
> 
> Becky has her legion of hardcore fans but there's a greater number of people who don't want to watch her. That's why they call her an anti-draw and say she has change the channel heat.


Imagine talking FS1 when Becky was there at 7pm and 10pm RERUN. AND *FS1.* Where the trend follow suit for weeks/months with 8pm doing better and 9pm then being the best performing one.

If FS1 is the best you got, go home and STFU again.
All you did was basically repeat same bullshit i just refuted. There is more proof that Becky is a draw than there isn't. You being stupid and haters trying to construct a false narrative is just pathetic.



Lenny Leonard said:


> From mania 35 to 36 almost 1 million people stopped watching


It's all on Becky right?? 😂 nothing to do with everything else on the show, the terrible writing, feuds, and then a pandemic?

Another geek bitter guy that their favorite didn't accomplish 1/4th of Becky.


----------



## Rozzop

The ratings have tanked since the start of the womens revolution. 

Yes they were going down before that but the last 3 to 4 years have seen massive drops coinciding with the push of the women. 

To say there is no link between fall of ratings and basing half of your program on women is strange.


----------



## Not Lying

Rozzop said:


> The ratings have tanked since the start of the womens revolution.
> 
> Yes they were going down before that but the last 3 to 4 years have seen massive drops coinciding with the push of the women.
> 
> To say there is no link between fall of ratings and basing half of your program on women is strange.


Really now? nothing to do with John Cena, the FOTC for 10 years stepping out of the shadows in 2014 and Lesnar being the main champion for 5-6 years while building a rejected FOTC. All on the women's revolution which has successfully turned many women into stars and saw an increase in young female demo.

Of course there were people that were going to be turned off by women's revolution and more matches. Especially when they're used to seeing them in nothing or trashy matches for 20+ years. But, this the type fans they can lose to gain different ones. A small sacrifice at the time for a longer goal of a more diversified fan-base.


----------



## Rozzop

The Definition of Technician said:


> Really now? nothing to do with John Cena, the FOTC for 10 years stepping out of the shadows in 2014 and Lesnar being the main champion for 5-6 years while building a rejected FOTC. All on the women's revolution which has successfully turned many women into stars and saw an increase in young female demo.
> 
> Of course there were people that were going to be turned off by women's revolution and more matches. Especially when they're used to seeing them in nothing or trashy matches for 20+ years. But, this the type fans they can lose to gain different ones.


Yes. 

There have been many different reasons as to why the ratings have tanked, Reigns being one of them. 

What female stars? Lynch maybe at a push. Who else. Bliss? Asuka? Charlotte? Only the 1.8m people left watching know who they are. 

Over half the audience is gone dude. If Raw was doing 3m viewers with loads of Charlotte and Banks fans then fair enough, but it isnt. It hasnt been a ratings success has it? 

Now some of that is on Reigns. Some of it is on Lesnar. Some of it is on the wall to wall bad programming but history will say the womens revolution tanked the audience.


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> The numbers don’t support this theory which is why some people push back on it. If the decline was a very steady month over month drop over the course of many years then that theory would have merit. But when you look at the ratings charts there are many anomalies. There are periods of slow & steady drops. There are periods of rebounds. There are periods of huge drops. There are seasonality patterns and then periods where the trend doesn’t match those seasonality patterns. The talent and how are they are used does matter. Or at least it did up until say 12-18 months ago. Things may be at a point of no return now where what they do makes no difference whatsoever.


Yeah, obviously the drop is not going to be linear. But it still seems to me that much of this talk is just an example of the ole confusing correlation with causation.


----------



## Not Lying

Rozzop said:


> Yes.
> 
> There have been many different reasons as to why the ratings have tanked, Reigns being one of them.
> 
> What female stars? Lynch maybe at a push. Who else. Bliss? Asuka? Charlotte? Only the 1.8m people left watching know who they are.
> 
> Over half the audience is gone dude. If Raw was doing 3m viewers with loads of Charlotte and Banks fans then fair enough, but it isnt. It hasnt been a ratings success has it?
> 
> Now some of that is on Reigns. Some of it is on Lesnar. Some of it is on the wall to wall bad programming but history will say the womens revolution tanked the audience.


Your argument would hold true if during 2015-2020 the women were being consistently dropping the numbers whenever they showed up. But that's not true. Ratings were up and down as usual between women and men segments, but the average product getting worse/losing fans for different reasons/. 
Even WM 35 Ronda/Becky were the biggest draws on the show. Asuka's been highest rated hour many times, Charlotte and Sasha's increase of viewership in 3rd hour in 2016. If you can back that during 2015-2020 women were consistently losing segments/viewers, then you can make such a claim.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Why are you fools arguing over which talent is to blame for bad ratings?

Terrible television is to blame for terrible ratings. Blaming Roman Reigns or Becky Lynch is just asinine. Don’t they both usually gain viewers for their segments anyway? Despite both being given shit storylines time and time again. Neither are even active right now anyway, so they clearly aren’t the “anti draws” people like to say they are, or ratings would have improved with them gone.

The blame lies at the feet of Vince McMahon for producing a shit product for nearly 20 years. This decline began in 2001.


----------



## rbl85

The real rating killer for RAW is that 3rd hour.

I'm pretty sure that some peoples who are counted in the third hour are actually sleeping in front of it.


----------



## Hephaesteus

rbl85 said:


> The real rating killer for RAW is that 3rd hour.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that some peoples who are counted in the third hour are actually sleeping in front of it.


If they'd stop putting on stupid main events, they'd stop struggling in hour 3.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes


----------



## Dr. Jones

Getting rid of the 3rd hour would help tremendously from a quality standpoint, but I don't think the ratings would suddenly shoot right up. The average would be a little better, but not by THAT much.

It's clear WWE is ice cold right now and the interest just isn't there. This has been coming for a while now. The RTWM bump completely vanished the past couple years which is a very big problem. This was the time the casuals checked in once a year. The last two, they haven't even bothered


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Sasha's impact

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271361520803254274







*


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny that no matter how many times we repeat this true statement over the past couple of years (AT LEAST) on here, some folks will continue to be ignorant by picking and choosing who to blame for the low ratings when in reality the viewership will be approximately the same regardless of who's getting pushed or who's the world champion.


I've said this before but the issue is the hypocrisy from people. When it's someone like Cena or Reigns, or Mahal, etc on top as World Champ its perfectly fine to pin the ratings entirely on them. But the instant that its a Rollins, Bryan, Styles, Lynch, etc that's on top suddenly people start claiming you cant blame the ratings on the World Champ.

If it was Cena's fault for the ratings in the past then its Rollins and co's fault for the ratings now.


----------



## DammitChrist

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I've said this before but the issue is the hypocrisy from people. When it's someone like Cena or Reigns, or Mahal, etc on top as World Champ its perfectly fine to pin the ratings entirely on them. But the instant that its a Rollins, Bryan, Styles, Lynch, etc that's on top suddenly people start claiming you cant blame the ratings on the World Champ.
> 
> If it was Cena's fault for the ratings in the past then its Rollins and co's fault for the ratings now.


You don't fucking get it. Those people are wrong to blame ANY individual wrestler for the low ratings.

NO WRESTLER is (single-handedly) responsible for "tanking" the ratings. That INCLUDES guys like John Cena, Roman Reigns, and Jinder Mahal. They're not the reason why the ratings are mediocre now. It for damn sure isn't the fault of Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, nor Becky Lynch either. Drew McIntyre and Braun Strowman (who are actually the current world champions) also shouldn't be used as the scapegoat as to why the viewership is so low now. None of those names are actually the driving forces of the record-low viewership.

The fact that the ratings STILL continue to (gradually) decrease in recent years no matter who's the world champion or who's getting pushed proves that this is not a problem regarding the individual talents. It's a company-related issue due to their stale product, their mediocre booking decisions, and their failure to commit with a management/creative team for the long-term (since they've shifted creative writers/bookers multiple times over the past year). The decreasing ratings are pretty much out of the control of the wrestlers at this point.

I remember how there were plenty of ignorant folks around this time last year who kept blaming Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, and Kofi Kingston for "tanking" the ratings while they were the world champions. Fast forward a year later and NONE of them are world champions; but yet the ratings are still terrible with the ratings falling below 2 million viewers. Rollins has taken a break of the main-event scene so he can be involved in (upper-) midcard storylines. Becky is pregnant now, and she'll potentially be gone for at least a couple years. Kofi is back to being in the tag team scene (while also being one-half of the current Smackdown Tag Team Champions along with Big E), and he's nowhere near the main-event scene. 

Some folks last year claimed that the ratings would improve if they pushed other wrestlers besides those three names once their world title reigns ended. However, that hasn't really happened at all because the ratings are even worse, and they've been pushing fresher/newer names lately too (with Bayley being the only anomaly since she's pretty much in the same position as last year, but as a heel). Yep, so much for Rollins, Becky, Kofi, and anyone else on the roster being "responsible" for the mediocre ratings.

What's actually hypocritical here is folks like you picking who to blame for the low ratings on your disliked wrestlers by implying (or even claiming) that names like Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are what's "tanking" the ratings while reacting negatively to them; but then you seem opposed to the idea of Baron Corbin along with John Cena "plummeting" the viewership. Thankfully, I'm consistent here because I sincerely believe that none of those individual wrestlers are luring most of the wrestling audience away.

Anyway, the ratings will continue to be mediocre no matter who's getting pushed in the main-event scene, and it's NOT the fault of any of the current talents too. I've been stating the first half of my previous sentence on here since late-2018, and it turned out to be true (even DESPITE the fact that they pushed the fan favorites in the main-event scene temporarily last year). Enough with the toxic mindset that any wrestler is "tanking" the ratings and using the low numbers in order to twist false narratives of why any of those talents is directly responsible for the falling viewership in 2020. This outdated concept where any individual wrestler should somehow be blamed for the low ratings should honestly fuck off at this point since it's getting more archaic as each year passes.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

DammitChrist said:


> You don't fucking get it. Those people are wrong to blame ANY individual wrestler for the low ratings.
> 
> NO WRESTLER is (single-handedly) responsible for "tanking" the ratings. That INCLUDES guys like John Cena, Roman Reigns, and Jinder Mahal. They're not the reason why the ratings are mediocre now. It for damn sure isn't the fault of Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, nor Becky Lynch either. Drew McIntyre and Braun Strowman (who are actually the current world champions) also shouldn't be used as the scapegoat as to why the viewership is so low now. None of those names are actually the driving forces of the record-low viewership.
> 
> The fact that the ratings STILL continue to (gradually) decrease in recent years no matter who's the world champion or who's getting pushed proves that this is not a problem regarding the individual talents. It's a company-related issue due to their stale product, their mediocre booking decisions, and their failure to commit with a management/creative team for the long-term (since they've shifted creative writers/bookers multiple times over the past year). The decreasing ratings are pretty much out of the control of the wrestlers at this point.
> 
> I remember how there were plenty of ignorant folks around this time last year who kept blaming Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, and Kofi Kingston for "tanking" the ratings while they were the world champions. Fast forward a year later and NONE of them are world champions; but yet the ratings are still terrible with the ratings falling below 2 million viewers. Rollins has taken a break of the main-event scene so he can be involved in (upper-) midcard storylines. Becky is pregnant now, and she'll potentially be gone for at least a couple years. Kofi is back to being in the tag team scene (while also being one-half of the current Smackdown Tag Team Champions along with Big E), and he's nowhere near the main-event scene.
> 
> Some folks last year claimed that the ratings would improve if they pushed other wrestlers besides those three names once their world title reigns ended. However, that hasn't really happened at all because the ratings are even worse, and they've been pushing fresher/newer names lately too (with Bayley being the only anomaly since she's pretty much in the same position as last year, but as a heel). Yep, so much for Rollins, Becky, Kofi, and anyone else on the roster being "responsible" for the mediocre ratings.
> 
> What's actually hypocritical here is folks like you picking who to blame for the low ratings on your disliked wrestlers by implying (or even claiming) that names like Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are what's "tanking" the ratings while reacting negatively to them; but then you seem opposed to the idea of Baron Corbin along with John Cena "plummeting" the viewership. Thankfully, I'm consistent here because I sincerely believe that none of those individual wrestlers are luring most of the wrestling audience away.
> 
> Anyway, the ratings will continue to be mediocre no matter who's getting pushed in the main-event scene, and it's NOT the fault of any of the current talents too. I've been stating the first half of my previous sentence on here since late-2018, and it turned out to be true (even DESPITE the fact that they pushed the fan favorites in the main-event scene temporarily last year). Enough with the toxic mindset that any wrestler is "tanking" the ratings and using the low numbers in order to twist false narratives of why any of those talents is directly responsible for the falling viewership in 2020. This outdated concept where any individual wrestler should somehow be blamed for the low ratings should honestly fuck off at this point since it's getting more archaic as each year passes.


I get it, its clearly you who doesn't.

No one batted an eye, no one said otherwise, no one kicked up a stink when we could pin the ratings on Cena, Reigns, Jinder, Bellas, whoever else. Whoever isn't a generic IWC Hero.

But when things shifted noticeably and it was the Rollins, Bryan's Lynch's etc standing on top thats when this opinion came about that you cant just pin the ratings on whoever is World Champ on the time.

The same people that were happy to pin SmackDowns ratings slump 100% on Jinder Mahal were suddenly quiet about the ratings being even lower when AJ Styles was Champ, and even lower again when Daniel Bryan was Champ.

I'm not saying blame one person, Seth Rollins may just be the worst Pro Wrestler of all time but even I wont pin the ratings entirely on him. What Im saying is its hypocritical for people to have done this to wrestlers they dont like in the past, then suddenly change their tune on the impact the World Champ has on ratings when its one of their guys.

The ratings are in the toilet because the whole product sucks. They only push the same tiny handful of people, most of whom look the exact same as each other. Anyone who shows any kind of passion or entertainment factor is buried into oblivion. All the feuds suck, in part because Vince is a senile fool and in part because most modern Pro Wrestlers have zero charisma, zero personality, zero mic skills and zero passion to improve.


----------



## ClintDagger

Wrestling’s ratings, box office, and popularity has ALWAYS been driven by who or what is in the main event. It’s a star driven business and that will never change.


----------



## DammitChrist

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I get it, its clearly you who doesn't.
> 
> No one batted an eye, no one said otherwise, no one kicked up a stink when we could pin the ratings on Cena, Reigns, Jinder, Bellas, whoever else. Whoever isn't a generic IWC Hero.
> 
> But when things shifted noticeably and it was the Rollins, Bryan's Lynch's etc standing on top thats when this opinion came about that you cant just pin the ratings on whoever is World Champ on the time.
> 
> The same people that were happy to pin SmackDowns ratings slump 100% on Jinder Mahal were suddenly quiet about the ratings being even lower when AJ Styles was Champ, and even lower again when Daniel Bryan was Champ.
> 
> I'm not saying blame one person, Seth Rollins may just be the worst Pro Wrestler of all time but even I wont pin the ratings entirely on him. What Im saying is its hypocritical for people to have done this to wrestlers they dont like in the past, then suddenly change their tune on the impact the World Champ has on ratings when its one of their guys.
> 
> The ratings are in the toilet because the whole product sucks. They only push the same tiny handful of people, most of whom look the exact same as each other. Anyone who shows any kind of passion or entertainment factor is buried into oblivion. All the feuds suck, in part because Vince is a senile fool and in part because most modern Pro Wrestlers have zero charisma, zero personality, zero mic skills and zero passion to improve.


Nah, it's pretty clear that I'm the one who actually gets it. 

Folks like you STILL want to pretend like anyone who joins the main-event now is going to make a big difference to the ratings (good or bad), which is both cute and delusional of them due to the fact that the ratings have been steadily declining over the past several years REGARDLESS if an unpopular company favorite or if a popular "IWC darling" is getting pushed on top. It doesn't really matter in the end since ratings won't steadily increase until the overall product improves considerably and until they start writing good shows consistently for several months (especially once the crowds finally come back).

Besides, the fact that you still pretend that the majority of the roster has wrestlers with "no charisma" or "no mic skills" and that Seth Rollins is somehow the "worst" professional wrestler of all time (when someone like Nia Jax exists) is pretty damn laughable on both parts; but yet I'm the one who apparently 'doesn't' get it. That's ironic  

Edit:

Oh, for the record, I'm not one of those people who "changed their tune" once they started pushing the fan favorites last year only for those popular wrestlers to be unable to save the low ratings. Even back when Roman Reigns was the Universal Champion (which was back when I used to really dislike him) in late-2018, I was still consistent about the company/management being responsible for driving viewers away with their mediocre programming, and didn't blame him for the low ratings on here either.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I've said this before but the issue is the hypocrisy from people. When it's someone like Cena or Reigns, or Mahal, etc on top as World Champ its perfectly fine to pin the ratings entirely on them. But the instant that its a Rollins, Bryan, Styles, Lynch, etc that's on top suddenly people start claiming you cant blame the ratings on the World Champ.
> 
> If it was Cena's fault for the ratings in the past then its Rollins and co's fault for the ratings now.


Exactly right. CM Punk used to be called a ratings killer when he was champ and he was getting 4+ million viewers a show. His era could well as be the Attitude Era compared to today. WWE's accelerated nosedive in ratings the last 5 years can be attributed to Reigns, Rollins, and Women's wrestling.


----------



## DammitChrist

Except it shouldn't really be attributed to them at all, especially with the ratings still being pretty low with those names no longer being pushed in the main-event.

It's almost like the nosedive in ratings since 2015 is due to WWE mishandling the momentum of their over acts over the past several years, relying on the part-timers instead of their talents who are performing full-time (to the point where there are multiple instances where the part-timers are booked to go over the wrestlers on the current roster), having no Universal Champion that appears weekly for about HALF of that time frame (causing Raw's main-event scene to suffer since barely anything matters when there are almost nothing at stake for the full-time main-eventers) , and failing to write compelling shows (both of them) consistently on a weekly basis for several months at least. 

Maybe (just maybe) those factors are what's actually primarily responsible for WWE luring away tons of viewers over the past 5 years, and that it's not solely based on any individual wrestler. Gee, what a novel concept.


----------



## Ozell Gray

They're trying to build new stars so its going to take awhile for viewership and ratings to go back up. WWE has shown in the past they can turn it on when they want and grow their audience.


----------



## Rozzop

I remember when Batista won the rumble and everyone (bar me seemingly) wanted Bryan to win, there was a massive outrage on twitter (whats new?). 

I know "cancel wwe network" trends often but is this the one incident that caused the nosedive of the viewers? 

I mean, wwe has been losing viewers steadily for 20 years but last few years has seen big losses. 

Then we got the Roman push and the Womens revolution following shortly after. 

So I pinpoint it at Batista winning the rumble. Which is strange. Batista the cliched wrestling star. Bryan the cliched vanilla midget indie guy.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.982M [13th] | 0.560D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.996M [11th] | 0.530D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.838M [15th] | 0.490D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.939M | 0.527D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.014M | + 0.71% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.36% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.158M | - 7.92% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.55% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.144M | - 7.27% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.202M | + 11.63% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.296M | - 13.24% ]
[ - 0.180D | - 25.46% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Bruce Prichard era is off to a good start...for now.


----------



## kazarn

3rd hour didn't drop as much as usual I think, but the ratings are pretty much the same. They can't even reach 2M anymore.


----------



## postmoderno

Decent bump and an actual increase H1 to H2. Interesting.

Guess we'll see where this goes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Only 70K behind what SD did this past Friday.


----------



## chronoxiong

Bruce Pritchard be like, "Give me a hell yeah!" Nice ratings bump. Still has work to do but this week's show was enjoyable for me.


----------



## postmoderno

chronoxiong said:


> Bruce Pritchard be like, "Give me a hell yeah!" Nice ratings bump. Still has work to do but this week's show was enjoyable for me.


I didn't love it like everyone else did, but at least it didn't feel like the same old shit and did have some good aspects to it.

I seem to remember things feeling different in a good way for the first episode of the most recent Heyman era too though, so we'll see.


----------



## Ozell Gray

*WWE RAW Draws Best Viewership Since WrestleMania 36

Monday's post-Backlash edition of WWE RAW, featuring fallout from Sunday's pay-per-view with Christian returning in the main event for an Unsanctioned Match against Randy Orton, drew an average of 1.939 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Showbuzz Daily.*

This is up 11.6% from last week's 1.737 million viewers for the _Backlash_ go-home episode, which was the fourth-lowest viewership in history. This is also the best RAW viewership since the April 6 post-WrestleMania 36 episode, which drew 2.118 million viewers.
For this week's show, the first hour drew 1.982 million viewers (last week's hour 1 - 1.827 million), the second hour drew 1.996 million viewers (last week's hour 2 - 1.790 million) and the final hour drew 1.838 million viewers (last week's hour 3 - 1.595 million.

These are some of the best hourly numbers in recent months.

RAW was #12 for the night in viewership on cable, behind Tucker Carlson Tonight, Hannity, The Five, The Ingraham Angle, The Story, 90 Day Fiance: Tell More, 90 Day Fiance: Other Way, Special Report, Rachel Maddow Show, 90 Day Other Way: Pillow Talk, and Your World with Neil Cavuto. WWE ranked #5 for the night on the Cable Top 150 with an average 18-49 demographic rating of 0.53. 90 Day Fiance: Tell More topped the night on the Cable Top 150 with a 0.73 rating in the 18.49 demographic, drawing 2.620 million viewers. Tucker Carlson Tonight on FOX News topped the night on cable in viewership with 4.198 million viewers, ranking #8 on the Top 150 with a 0.40 rating in the key demo.
The Bachelor on ABC drew 2.146 million viewers on broadcast TV in the 8pm hour while The Neighborhood drew 3.856 million viewers on CBS, Titan Games drew 3.794 million viewers on NBC, 911 drew 2.518 million viewers on FOX and CW's Whose Line Is It Anyway drew 993,000 viewers, all in the 8pm hour on broadcast TV.
Below is our 2020 RAW Viewership Tracker:

*January 6 Episode:* 2.385 million viewers with a 0.74 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 13 Episode:* 2.030 million viewers with a 0.61 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 20 Episode:* 2.380 million viewers with a 0.83 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*January 27 Episode:* 2.402 million viewers with a 0.76 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Royal Rumble episode)
*February 3 Episode:* 2.168 million viewers with a 0.67 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 10 Episode:* 2.337 million viewers with a 0.80 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 17 Episode:* 2.437 million viewers with a 0.79 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*February 24 Episode:* 2.210 million viewers with a 0.71 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*March 2 Episode:* 2.256 million viewers with a 0.74 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Super ShowDown episode)
*March 9 Episode:* 2.163 million viewers with a 0.69 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Elimination Chamber episode)
*March 16 Episode:* 2.335 million viewers with a 0.74 rating in the 18-49 demographic (first-ever WWE Performance Center episode)
*March 23 Episode:* 2.006 million viewers with a 0.61 rating in the 18-49 demographic (second WWE PC episode)
*March 30 Episode:* 1.924 million viewers with a 0.58 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 6 Episode:* 2.118 million viewers with a 0.70 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-WrestleMania 36 episode)
*April 13 Episode:* 1.913 million viewers with a 0.56 rating in the 18-49 demographic (return to live TV)
*April 20 Episode:* 1.842 million viewers with a 0.56 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*April 27 Episode:* 1.817 million viewers with a 0.51 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 4 Episode:* 1.686 million viewers with a 0.46 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 11 Episode:* 1.919 million viewers with a 0.57 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Money In the Bank episode)
*May 18 Episode:* 1.757 million viewers with a 0.51 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*May 25 Episode:* 1.735 million viewers with a 0.51 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Memorial Day episode)
*June 1 Episode:* 1.728 million viewers with a 0.49 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*June 8 Episode:* 1.737 million viewers with a 0.53 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*June 15 Episode:* 1.939 million viewers with a 0.53 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Backlash episode)
*June 22 Episode:
2019 Total:* 125.746 million viewers over 52 episodes
*2019 Average:* 2.418 million viewers per episode
*2018 Total:* 149.628 million viewers over 53 episodes
*2018 Average:* 2.823 million viewers per episode
*2017 Total:* 156.971 million viewers over 52 episodes
*2017 Average:* 3.018 million viewers per episode










WWE RAW Draws Best Viewership Since WrestleMania 36 - Wrestling Inc.


Monday’s post-Backlash edition of WWE RAW, featuring fallout from Sunday’s pay-per-view with Christian returning in the main event for an Unsanctioned Match against Randy Orton, drew an average of 1.939 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Showbuzz Daily. This is up 11.6% from last...




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hate Vince and Bruce all you want but the show was booked pretty damn well.


----------



## DaSlacker

Christian draws! LOL

In all seriousness, it had the usual post PPV bump and went further by being strategically booked. Pushing a former world champion as coming out of retirement after 6 years, bringing in a legend and then holding off until 10 mins before the show ended was vintage WWE Raw. Some actual creative work happening too, kinda relevant to current events, with MVP trying to recruit Truth and Crews. 

Maintaining that is the difficulty.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DaSlacker said:


> Christian draws! LOL
> 
> In all seriousness, it had the usual post PPV bump and went further by being strategically booked. Pushing a former world champion as coming out of retirement after 6 years, bringing in a legend and then holding off until 10 mins before the show ended was vintage WWE Raw. Some actual creative work happening too, kinda relevant to current events, with MVP trying to recruit Truth and Crews.
> 
> Maintaining that is the difficulty.



Imagine arching stories throughout the show holding viewers instead of 20 minute matches with IWC darlings. (Cough, Paul, cough)


----------



## ClintDagger

The Christian / Orton / Flair stuff was great and it clearly held the audience until the end. That’s all well and good, but I don’t know how you replicate that with the main roster or even capitalize on it long-term with Edge being out. It wouldn’t be the worst idea to make the Orton / Christian feud exclusive to Raw and let it play out over a few months. The interest in the main roster is clearly zero and it doesn’t matter if you have Styles, Lynch, Rollins, Owens, etcetera there or not.


----------



## rbl85

I think we should wait for the quarters.


----------



## FITZ

RainmakerV2 said:


> Imagine arching stories throughout the show holding viewers instead of 20 minute matches with IWC darlings. (Cough, Paul, cough)


Save that for the PPVs and use your TV shows to turn people into IWC darlings!


----------



## Garty

Holy shit Ozell! Calm down.  There is no doubt in my mind that you are no older than 21.

As it pertains to the ratings though, get back to me next week.


----------



## DaSlacker

RainmakerV2 said:


> Imagine arching stories throughout the show holding viewers instead of 20 minute matches with IWC darlings. (Cough, Paul, cough)


I agree. A weekly show driven by long wrestling matches is guaranteed to lose viewers, especially when they lack psychology or believability. Though writing a show that holds attention for 3 hours every week is a big task.


----------



## llj

It seems to me that they didn't get new viewers so much as retain their existing viewers throughout the night. That first hour is only 100k above the last few weeks' usual 1.8m. Bringing the 3rd hour up from their patented 1.5s to 1.8 is what improved the number most.

This won't last though.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DaSlacker said:


> I agree. A weekly show driven by long wrestling matches is guaranteed to lose viewers, especially when they lack psychology or believability. Though writing a show that holds attention for 3 hours every week is a big task.


I had to be up at 5 AM for work but I actually stayed up for the third hour because I was drawn into the story of Drew and Truths belts and Orton and Christian. I felt like I was rewarded as a viewer for sticking with the show and watching the stories play out instead of just match after match.


----------



## kazarn

How did WWE lose 1M viewers in just a year..


----------



## Frost99

Ozell Gray said:


> *WWE RAW Draws Best Viewership Since WrestleMania 36*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE RAW Draws Best Viewership Since WrestleMania 36 - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> Monday’s post-Backlash edition of WWE RAW, featuring fallout from Sunday’s pay-per-view with Christian returning in the main event for an Unsanctioned Match against Randy Orton, drew an average of 1.939 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Showbuzz Daily. This is up 11.6% from last...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Randy Lahey

This just shows that nostalgia acts from the past are far bigger draws than any of the current talent. A guy like Christian, who was a role player in the Attitude Era, can even come back and pop a rating (relatively speaking)


----------



## llj

Randy Lahey said:


> This just shows that nostalgia acts from the past are far bigger draws than any of the current talent. A guy like Christian, who was a role player in the Attitude Era, can even come back and pop a rating (relatively speaking)


To be fair, this only works when the guy hasn't been around for a while. Edge has been on nearly every week the past month and the ratings were hitting rock bottom. 

The more people see you nowadays, the more your drawing ability diminishes.


----------



## postmoderno

Randy Lahey said:


> This just shows that nostalgia acts from the past are far bigger draws than any of the current talent. A guy like Christian, who was a role player in the Attitude Era, can even come back and pop a rating (relatively speaking)


It sure will be interesting to see what the WWE does when these old dudes they keep relying on finally become crippled or die.

Who will the nostalgia acts of the future be?


----------



## DaSlacker

postmoderno said:


> It sure will be interesting to see what the WWE does when these old dudes they keep relying on finally become crippled or die.
> 
> Who will the nostalgia acts of the future be?


Today's 30 somethings become the nostalgia pops of 2030: Roman, Seth, Braun, Bray, KO, Drew. Difference being they never reached their full potential and Raw has a live viewership of <= 500,000 viewers on some subscription platform, so 700,000 viewers is considered a huge number.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Nice bump but...

1) Still unable to break 2M

2) Orton/Christian was gold in 2011 even if Christian should have won more. Those 2 worked together great. Between them, and Punk/Cena and Bryan winning MITB it got me intrigued in WWE again after that awful guest host era BS. 

3) I skipped the past 3 Raw's but I checked out the PPV (since my free month was not up yet) and while it was just filler and I hate the bells and whistles they put on Edge/Orton this is enough to at least get me to check out this stuff at some point this week.


----------



## Not Lying

It took a WWE title match, Women's title match, and Orton/Christian in the 3rd hour to hold viewers (and they still lost a little).
They can't do that every week but they should try and have thee 3rd hour with a lot of stakes.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I can see raw breaking 2 milli very soon


----------



## ShadowCounter

optikk sucks said:


> I can see raw breaking 2 milli very soon


I'd get your eyes checked.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Great, great rating!!!


----------



## llj

optikk sucks said:


> I can see raw breaking 2 milli very soon


I think they already blew their wad this week


----------



## Dr. Jones

TKO Wrestling said:


> Great, great rating!!!


A 1.9 is a GREAT RATING!!! ??

Man, the goal post has literally moved to the other end of the field


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Dr. Jones said:


> A 1.9 is a GREAT RATING!!! ??
> 
> Man, the goal post has literally moved to the other end of the field


More like out of the entire stadium


----------



## llj

They were


Dr. Jones said:


> A 1.9 is a GREAT RATING!!! ??
> 
> Man, the goal post has literally moved to the other end of the field


Right? They were literally doing better numbers on normal, non-stacked episodes just 2 months ago. People using these little inconsequential bumps to confirm their own narratives when this whole thing is collapsing all around.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

llj said:


> They were
> 
> 
> Right? They were literally doing better numbers on normal, non-stacked episodes just 2 months ago. People using these little inconsequential bumps to confirm their own narratives when this whole thing is collapsing all around.


They rebounded, even for one week, from that lull they were in. The show was faster pace, it was alot more fun than it has been being. I think they have something to build on.


----------



## llj

TKO Wrestling said:


> They rebounded, even for one week, from that lull they were in. The show was faster pace, it was alot more fun than it has been being. I think they have something to build on.


I'm not saying these little bumps and stuff aren't worth noting, but I'm saying at this point it's probably largely out of their hands. I feel like the audiences have already made up their minds and right now it's all about audience retention rather than actual gains. They've not managed to grow their audience in nearly 20 years, I don't expect the slide to reverse all of a sudden.

I think early 2018 was the only time they showed actual audience gains year over year, but it didn't last, and it ended after WM34.


----------



## Prosper

WWE click baited the shit out of people making them think we would get a brawl between Orton and Christian, that shit was disrespectful as fuck, I don’t know how people are ok with that and see the click bait nonsense holding viewers as a good thing. Are all of those people gonna trust WWE in the future? I bet if the crowd was there they would shit on it like they did when WWE click baited us on Rollins vs Kofi just to give us the finger at the end of the show and give us a Teddy Long tag match.


----------



## ClintDagger

prosperwithdeen said:


> WWE click baited the shit out of people making them think we would get a brawl between Orton and Christian, that shit was disrespectful as fuck, I don’t know how people are ok with that and see the click bait nonsense holding viewers as a good thing. Are all of those people gonna trust WWE in the future? I bet if the crowd was there they would shit on it like they did when WWE click baited us on Rollins vs Kofi just to give us the finger at the end of the show and give us a Teddy Long tag match.


It wasn’t an advertised match so it wasn’t promised. It wasn’t before a live crowd. To me WWE finally did something right. As long as we finally get Orton / Christian for real a little down the road I don’t see the issue.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite




----------



## Randy Lahey

So according to that graph, USA has went from 97 mils subs, to 86 mils subs from 2015-2020. That's about 12% reduction. Raw's audience has went from 3.70 million in 2015 to 1.80 mils in 2020. 

Subs down 12%.
Raw viewers down 50%.

Yeah, can't blame cord cutters for Raw's horrific ratings.


----------



## ElTerrible




----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.035M [16th] | 0.580D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.950M [17th] | 0.530D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.782M [21st] | 0.490D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.922M | 0.533D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.085M | - 4.18% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.62% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.168M | - 8.62% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.55% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.253M | - 12.43% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 15.52% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.017M | - 0.88% ]
[ + 0.006D | + 1.14% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.354M | - 15.55% ]
[ - 0.197D | - 26.99% ]*


----------



## llj

The Pritchard "bump" still seems to be going. But yeah, standards have declined a lot over the last 18 months


----------



## ClintDagger

Started off higher than last week but dropped off much more significantly. I think a lot of people are tuning in mostly for the Edge/Christian/Orton stuff and then checking out when it’s over. They should keep that as the show closer IMO.


----------



## MoxAsylum

ClintDagger said:


> Started off higher than last week but dropped off much more significantly. I think a lot of people are tuning in mostly for the Edge/Christian/Orton stuff and then checking out when it’s over. They should keep that as the show closer IMO.


They need to cut the third hour....Also that’s the only reason why I bother watching, rest of the roster is geeks


----------



## ClintDagger

MoxAsylum said:


> They need to cut the third hour....Also that’s the only reason why I bother watching, rest of the roster is geeks


They need the revenue brother.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.862M [15th] | 0.520D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.751M [21st] | 0.480D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.592M [27th] | 0.430D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.735M | 0.483D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.111M | - 5.96% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.69% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.159M | - 9.08% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 10.42% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.270M | - 14.50% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 17.31% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.187M | - 9.73% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.38% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.761M | - 30.49% ]
[ - 0.303D | - 39.63% ]*


----------



## postmoderno




----------



## Frost99




----------



## Not Lying

Wow. That's a huge drop. Was there anything important on TV yesterday competing with it?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

No one cared about that inter-gender main event. Ooof. Can't say I blame people for that, either.


----------



## Reil

Showstopper said:


> No one cared about that inter-gender main event. Ooof. Can't say I blame people for that, either.


I'll be honest, part of me didn't care simply because it featured Dolph Ziggler, who WWE has trained us to not care about or actively tune out of watching. And now all of a sudden we are expected to take him seriously after he got squashed by Otis several times.


----------



## kazarn

1.5 third hour LOOOOOOOOOOL


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth drew well again. 

Shame about the rest of the show.


----------



## RT1981

lol haha

if nba return does happen and have to go head to head with them in there currant state they are fucked and it could fall below one million viewers easy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

N


Reil said:


> I'll be honest, part of me didn't care simply because it featured Dolph Ziggler, who WWE has trained us to not care about or actively tune out of watching. And now all of a sudden we are expected to take him seriously after he got squashed by Otis several times.


No one took any of them seriously. According to Meltzer on his board on his site, it's tied for the second lowest in the demos ever. No one cares about any of them in that match.


----------



## chronoxiong

This week's show was decent only and the rating reflected it. Nothing big happened in it.


----------



## Kentucky34

Showstopper said:


> N
> 
> No one took any of them seriously. According to Meltzer on his board on his site, it's tied for the second lowest in the demos ever. No one cares about any of them in that match.


As you and me both know, the crowd only care about Seth.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> N
> 
> No one took any of them seriously. According to Meltzer on his board on his site, it's tied for the second lowest in the demos ever. No one cares about any of them in that match.


I struggle to blame the talent. Drew looks like a superstar, Asuka is naturally charismatic and Sasha is cool enough. Unfortunately they did everything they could to drive away fans long before they went 3 hours.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> I struggle to blame the talent. Drew looks like a superstar, Asuka is naturally charismatic and Sasha is cool enough. Unfortunately they did everything they could to drive away fans long before they went 3 hours.


If they were, people would've stayed to watch.


----------



## Kentucky34

DaSlacker said:


> I struggle to blame the talent. Drew looks like a superstar, Asuka is naturally charismatic and Sasha is cool enough. Unfortunately they did everything they could to drive away fans long before they went 3 hours.


Drew isn't a good enough between the ropes. 

The women's division chases away viewers. 

Only Seth and Randy Orton add viewers out of those on the main roster. The part timers only provide a small ratings bump for 1 week so they don't really count.


----------



## Balor fan

The show is trash. Ratings didn't even go up for Austin 316 day. I don't think the talent are the problem, the show is extremely boring.


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> Drew isn't a good enough between the ropes.
> 
> The women's division chases away viewers.
> 
> Only Seth and Randy Orton add viewers out of those on the main roster. The part timers only provide a small ratings bump for 1 week so they don't really count.


for me the women are the only reason i'm still watching this garbage.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> If they were, people would've stayed to watch.


Even the coolest film star cannot carry a giant turkey. For example , George Clooney and Arnie couldn't salvage Batman '97. Exorcist 2 had a great cast but is still one of the worst films ever made.

No fans + no kayfabe + no believability + over saturation + years of 50/50 booking + failure to move with the times + aging network = no real need to stick with it for 3 hours.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> Even the coolest film star cannot carry a giant turkey. For example , George Clooney and Arnie couldn't salvage Batman '97. Exorcist 2 had a great cast but is still one of the worst films ever made.
> 
> No fans + no kayfabe + no believability + over saturation + years of 50/50 booking + failure to move with the times + aging network = no real need to stick with it for 3 hours.


So, then I guess everyone over the past couple decades has an excuse.

If someone is a star, they will stick around. This is the lowest rated year of WWE TV ever.


----------



## ManiaSeason2017

I enjoyed Lashley vs. ricochet and the main event wrestling wise. The storyline was atrocious; but overall decent episode. 

I think it's all just a sign of the times. Obvious reminder there are multiple crises around the world, no crowd, small venue; bland production. They are doing the best they can.


----------



## ElTerrible

*Captain Charisma shows up on Raw:*










*Fans think Captain Charisma will show up, but doesn´t: *











Fans know Captain Charisma won´t show up:


----------



## Randy Lahey

Their demo has dropped 40% in a year. 

1.73 mils vs no competition. What do they do against MNF? 1.5?


----------



## Ace

Who wanted to see that main event lol

Got to be the all time low 3rd hour.


----------



## Ace

Reil said:


> I'll be honest, part of me didn't care simply because it featured Dolph Ziggler, who WWE has trained us to not care about or actively tune out of watching. And now all of a sudden we are expected to take him seriously after he got squashed by Otis several times.


Ziggler and Sasha.

I swear Sasha has been on every WWE show in June.


----------



## DammitChrist

Ace said:


> Who wanted to see that main event lol


I did, but I’m in the minority


----------



## Ace

DammitChrist said:


> I did, but I’m in the minority


That match screamed you can tune out for the third hr, ain't nobody got time for it. As the ratings showed.

Honestly Orton and Seth to a lesser extent are the interesting things on this show. They're carrying the show. Drew is wasting his time feuding with geeks who have zero chance of beating him hence the lack of interest in his stuff.


----------



## Randy Lahey

It is interesting nobody keeps watching the following weeks after the nostalgia acts come and go.

Christian pops a rating, then the same viewers he brought tune right back out the following weeks.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> Their demo has dropped 40% in a year.
> 
> 1.73 mils vs no competition. What do they do against MNF? 1.5?


I think so. The third hour is a foreshadowing of where it's heading imo.


----------



## The Wood

I hope that these ratings with Bruce being in charge convince Vince and the USA Network that it's worth getting rid of that third hour. It's worth the short-term financial loss in order for longer term gains.


----------



## ClintDagger

I think the only thing people remotely care about is Edge and even that is only temporary. Nobody cares about Drew, Seth, the women, Owens, etcetera. Even Orton I think people could care less about in and of himself.


----------



## Ace

ClintDagger said:


> I think the only thing people remotely care about is Edge and even that is only temporary. Nobody cares about Drew, Seth, the women, Owens, etcetera. Even Orton I think people could care less about in and of himself.


 Wrong.

Orton is the star of that feud and the one that is drawing, Edge didn't do shit for the ratings. 

Orton going back to the legend killer and punting people again is what drew. You can look back at the numbers and see for yourself.


----------



## ClintDagger

Ace said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Orton is the star of that feud and the one that is drawing, Edge didn't do shit for the ratings.
> 
> Orton going back to the legend killer and punting people again is what drew. You can look back at the numbers and see for yourself.


I have gone back and that’s the conclusion I’ve come to. Unless Edge is there or an extension of Edge such as Christian or Beth I’m not seeing Randy’s numbers do much. For instance when it’s Show that is standing in for Edge the numbers with Randy aren’t good because people don’t buy Show as an actual extension of the Edge storyline.


----------



## Kentucky34

I think it is Seth that is keeping the numbers above 1.8 million. 

Orton is also helping. 

The rest need to up their games.


----------



## Not Lying

It's honestly *pathetic* how WWE thinks they can just give people like Ziggler a random title match with no build-up. I hate this. I hate how godamn stupid and lazy they get. 
Between Sasha/Asuka/Drew he was standing out like a sore thumb, why is he in a title match?


----------



## Mifune Jackson

The Wood said:


> I hope that these ratings with Bruce being in charge convince Vince and the USA Network that it's worth getting rid of that third hour. It's worth the short-term financial loss in order for longer term gains.


The third hour definitely hurts, but even with two hours, their creative problems are more fundamental to the reasons why they're losing an audience. It's a direct result of a bad TV show with no primary protagonist people really care about.



Kentucky34 said:


> I think it is Seth that is keeping the numbers above 1.8 million.
> 
> Orton is also helping.
> 
> The rest need to up their games.


Yeah, they do have those two keeping it afloat. They definitely need people who can do more than that. A lot of their writing just feels too low effort, even by WWE standards.


----------



## ClintDagger

Mifune Jackson said:


> The third hour definitely hurts, but even with two hours, their creative problems are more fundamental to the reasons why they're losing an audience. It's a direct result of a bad TV show with no primary protagonist people really care about.
> 
> Yeah, they do have those two keeping it afloat. They definitely need people who can do more than that. A lot of their writing just feels too low effort, even by WWE standards.


You’re right but they need the money. WWF and WCW were best when they only had one 2-hour prime time show each week. WWE is doing 3 shows and 7 hours a week. Cutting Raw by an hour would help the quality but they’re still overexposed. They would need to scrap 5 hours in total and that’s definitely not happening.


----------



## rbl85

1,687 for Raw this week


----------



## postmoderno

rbl85 said:


> 1,687 for Raw this week


Found this for the hourly breakdown:

Hour one started with 1,752,000 viewers, then went down to 1,697,000 viewers, before closing the third hour with 1,612,000 viewers.
Raw was #4, #5, and #6 in the top 50 cable chart among the 18-49 demographics and was beaten by two episodes of 90 Day Fiancee and Below Deck Med. It placed #21 in overall viewership for the night on cable. 

Second least watched RAW ever.

Oof.


----------



## rbl85

postmoderno said:


> Found this for the hourly breakdown:
> 
> Hour one started with 1,752,000 viewers, then went down to 1,697,000 viewers, before closing the third hour with 1,612,000 viewers.
> Raw was #4, #5, and #6 in the top 50 cable chart among the 18-49 demographics and was beaten by two episodes of 90 Day Fiancee and Below Deck Med. It placed #21 in overall viewership for the night on cable.
> 
> Second least watched RAW ever.
> 
> Oof.


Hour 1 was 1.697 and hour 2 was 1.752.


----------



## MoxAsylum

I’ve given up on the weekly shows, they absolutely suck


----------



## Kentucky34

Good audience retention throughout the 3 hours.

Seth's segment drew well again.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The most important number was up from .48 to .49, the first two hour average was .5.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Looks like Christian is the only guy that can draw.

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.


----------



## Garty

I think this seems appropriate enough to use right now...

Tom Petty - Free Fallin'


----------



## RT1981

these ratings prove Sasha Banks and Bayley don't draw shit and Vince needs to quit over exposing these 2 before they tank the ratings below one million.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> these ratings prove Sasha Banks and Bayley don't draw shit and Vince needs to quit over exposing these 2 before they tank the ratings below one million.


Yes.

Back in January they were doing better numbers when the show was built around Seth. They should go back to that.


----------



## MoxAsylum

RT1981 said:


> these ratings prove Sasha Banks and Bayley don't draw shit and Vince needs to quit over exposing these 2 before they tank the ratings below one million.


Sasha and Bayley are terrible, Charlotte is terrible, Seth sucks, Aleister Black sucks, Lashley sucks, McIntyre is boring, Big Show is boring, pretty much the whole roster sucks other than Orton and Edge


----------



## Cosmo77

vince's fault for not booking talent to their strenths,


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> these ratings prove Sasha Banks and Bayley don't draw shit and Vince needs to quit over exposing these 2 before they tank the ratings below one million.


No, it doesn't prove anything.

The ratings were already declining long before WWE decided to feature Sasha Banks and Bayley strongly each week, and I GUARANTEE you that these ratings will continue to stay mediocre (or even decline even further) after they're finished with their respective runs in the main-event scene.

Quit spreading your toxic trash about those 2 women "tanking" the ratings. It's just as stupid and ridiculous as other folks blaming any other individual wrestler for the low ratings over the past year.


----------



## RT1981

Cosmo77 said:


> vince's fault for not booking talent to their strenths,


Its Vince's fault for keep pushing the stale horsewomen at us and not giving the other ladies a chance.


----------



## postmoderno

DammitChrist said:


> No, it doesn't prove anything.
> 
> The ratings were already declining long before WWE decided to feature Sasha Banks and Bayley strongly each week, and I GUARANTEE you that these ratings will continue to stay mediocre (or even decline even further) after they're finished with their respective runs in the main-event scene.
> 
> Quit spreading your toxic trash about those 2 women "tanking" the ratings. It's just as stupid and ridiculous as other folks blaming any other individual wrestler for the low ratings over the past year.


Definitely agree that no single individual should be blamed for lowered ratings, but I don't think over exposing anyone is good. Prior to recently, I didn't think one way or the other about Sasha and Bayley, but they're starting to bore me. I see them far too often and they're not really involved in any compelling angles (similar to almost everyone else in the company).


----------



## RT1981

postmoderno said:


> Definitely agree that no single individual should be blamed for lowered ratings, but I don't think over exposing anyone is good. Prior to recently, I didn't think one way or the other about Sasha and Bayley, but they're starting to bore me. I see them far too often and they're not really involved in any compelling angles (similar to almost everyone else in the company).


and it don't help that Bayley has already went through the whole smackdown women div so either need to get the ball rolling on the sasha/Bayley feud thats coming or get the title off of Bayley asap and just have Bayley/Sasha be tag champs until they breakup but this over exposing them needs to stop cause its killing the ratings with them on every show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.697M [21st] | 0.490D [5th]
V2 | D2: 1.752M [20th] | 0.510D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.612M [23rd] | 0.480D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.687M | 0.493D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.055M | + 3.24% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 4.08% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.140M | - 7.99% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.88% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.085M | - 5.01% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 2.04% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.048M | - 2.77% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 2.07% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.665M | - 28.27% ]
[ - 0.230D | - 31.81% ]*


----------



## Ace

Lmao "The Draw" 😭😭😭


----------



## Ace

MoxAsylum said:


> Sasha and Bayley are terrible, Charlotte is terrible, Seth sucks, Aleister Black sucks, Lashley sucks, McIntyre is boring, Big Show is boring, pretty much the whole roster sucks other than Orton and Edge


Orton and to a lesser extent Seth-Rey are carrying Raw.


----------



## postmoderno

Ace said:


> Orton and to a lesser extent Seth-Rey are carrying Raw.


I wish I could get in the mind of someone enjoying this Seth-Rey angle so I could understand what's appealing about it. To me it is extremely tedious, random, and pointless. Rey bores me, Dominic has no charisma, I don't understand Rollins' gimmick, his lackeys are nameless gray faces, there doesn't seem to be anything meaningful at stake. I can't wait til it's over.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> Orton and to a lesser extent Seth-Rey are carrying Raw.


Im starting to notice that youre pretty hawkish about blaming the bad ratings on the women while ignoring the fact that theres been one constant on raw through all these declining ratings but well keep that fact on the hush


----------



## Rozzop

I don't care what anyone says. The women are tanking the ratings.

Was it 3 seperate womens matches this week? 

Believe it or not a lot of people dislike womens wrestling. 

The whole show is a mess so it's not just the womens fault but we'll look back on how feminism killed WWE.


----------



## Cosmo77

well they tried to push sheyna,lacy ruby, liv morgan etc, but for some reason, sheyna didnt check vinces boxes, whatever that means.


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Im starting to notice that youre pretty hawkish about blaming the bad ratings on the women while ignoring the fact that theres been one constant on raw through all these declining ratings but well keep that fact on the hush


Who?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2nd lowest viewership of all time (I think) and SD did it's lowest viewership on FOX of all time a few days ago. Woof. Somewhat of a rarity where the second hour was the highest rated hour and rated higher than hour 1. Rey and Rollins match and the KO show were featured at the top of that hour. I like that.

The early to mid 90's no longer the lowest rated era in WWE history. Actually, it's been that way for a few years now, but still. Sorry Drew and Oscar (Asuka)!

:buried


----------



## Frost99

Yikes, somewhere Vince is like......










Waiting to have a meeting with Bruce b4 the next investor call.


----------



## Cube2

if you guys think this number is bad. just wait until Aug 3rd. NBA IS BACK BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAKERS play at 9pm that day. Ouch.....


----------



## Kentucky34

That 2nd hour proves that Rollins is the biggest draw in the industry.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cube2 said:


> if you guys think this number is bad. just wait until Aug 3rd. NBA IS BACK BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> LAKERS play at 9pm that day. Ouch.....


It'll be cute to see more (wrong) bullshit assumptions of who'll be "tanking" the ratings by then when the numbers are still subpar.



Kentucky34 said:


> That 2nd hour proves that Rollins is the biggest draw in the industry.


God, please shut up.


----------



## RT1981

Rozzop said:


> I don't care what anyone says. The women are tanking the ratings.
> 
> Was it 3 seperate womens matches this week?
> 
> Believe it or not a lot of people dislike womens wrestling.
> 
> The whole show is a mess so it's not just the womens fault but we'll look back on how feminism killed WWE.


its the horsewomen who are tanking the ratings.they refuse to push other women like Liv Morgan,Alexa Bliss,Lacey Evans or Ruby Riott who fans want to see instead they go all in on Charlotte,Bayley,Sasha and had Becky not of gotten preg they would had kept pushing her at us and killing the ratings at the same time.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Ratings are awful but hard to believe that the retention was not bad at all.

Do I expect NBA to take some eyes away? Yes. However I find it hard personally to care about 5 on 5 basketball with no crowd.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> its the horsewomen who are tanking the ratings.they refuse to push other women like Liv Morgan,Alexa Bliss,Lacey Evans or Ruby Riott who fans want to see instead they go all in on Charlotte,Bayley,Sasha and had Becky not of gotten preg they would had kept pushing her at us and killing the ratings at the same time.


Sure, that totally explains why the ratings were still decreasing (even annually) before any of the Four Horsewomen got their world title reigns in the last year.

WWE choosing to push the likes of Alexa Bliss (again), Ruby Riott, Lacey Evans, and Liv Morgan will surely get the ratings back to 2 million viewers (ignoring the obvious fact that the ratings decline no matter who gets pushed).

God, you’re delusional.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> It'll be cute to see more (wrong) bullshit assumptions of who'll be "tanking" the ratings by then when the numbers are still subpar.
> 
> 
> 
> God, please shut up.


Why?

The numbers speak for themselves.


----------



## Ace

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Ratings are awful but hard to believe that the retention was not bad at all.
> 
> Do I expect NBA to take some eyes away? Yes. However I find it hard personally to care about 5 on 5 basketball with no crowd.


 Piped in crowd noise and CGI crowds helps. Haven't noticed too much a difference with La Liga, I've still enjoyed it.


----------



## Rozzop

RT1981 said:


> its the horsewomen who are tanking the ratings.they refuse to push other women like Liv Morgan,Alexa Bliss,Lacey Evans or Ruby Riott who fans want to see instead they go all in on Charlotte,Bayley,Sasha and had Becky not of gotten preg they would had kept pushing her at us and killing the ratings at the same time.


No, nobody wants to watch a three hour show with seemingly half of that being the women. Doesn't matter who the women are. None are draws.


----------



## ClintDagger

The ratings were always going to be on a slow slide downward until WWE hit less than 2MM (and eventually 1MM and then 500k and so on). The last 18 months just caused it to speed up much faster than the old drop rate.


----------



## RT1981

Rozzop said:


> No, nobody wants to watch a three hour show with seemingly half of that being the women. Doesn't matter who the women are. None are draws.


the men are not draws either cept for Orton and the legends they get to return to pop ratings.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> the men are not draws either cept for Orton and the legends they get to return to pop ratings.


And Seth.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Whoever was in the 1st hour should be fired. When the 2nd hour does better numbers than the 1st hour, it means whoever you put on in the 1st hour absolutely sucks.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

RT1981 said:


> its the horsewomen who are tanking the ratings.they refuse to push other women like Liv Morgan,Alexa Bliss,Lacey Evans or Ruby Riott who fans want to see instead they go all in on Charlotte,Bayley,Sasha and had Becky not of gotten preg they would had kept pushing her at us and killing the ratings at the same time.


This makes no sense. If the horsewomen who along with Alexa have the most fans can’t raise the ratings then u think the others with no fans and build can. Lmao I don’t know what’s laughable the fact that u are blaming the horsewomen or the fact that u think the other women can improve ratings 😂😂😂. Listen nobody is a draw in professional wrestling except Dwayne the rock Johnson and he has better things to do with his life.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

When will you guys learn to stop blaming one person or individuals for the ratings. 
2019 “oh becky and seth are ratings killer. Push drew and sasha and other people.”
2020 “drew and Sasha are not draws.”
Rinse and repeat


----------



## ClintDagger

People need to stop looking at this as who are or aren’t the draws and instead look at who or what are the “anti-draws”. It’s pretty easy to see what really turns viewers off.


----------



## DaSlacker

Tk Adeyemi said:


> When will you guys learn to stop blaming one person or individuals for the ratings.
> 2019 “oh becky and seth are ratings killer. Push drew and sasha and other people.”
> 2020 “drew and Sasha are not draws.”
> Rinse and repeat


In 5 years they will be like "Adam Cole and Rhea are ratings killers. Push Walter and Toni Storm - they draw 1 million viewers!"

The fact is, WWE Raw is creatively bankrupt. A dead duck. They killed off Championship Wrestling in 86, Prime Time in 92 and Heat in 08. WCW/Saturday Night was finally put to sleep in 2000. This show just limps away into ratings oblivion.


----------



## Kishido

RAW is boring as hell right now so deserved


----------



## SPCDRI

I know this was the second lowest non-holiday total viewership for a show, narrowly missing being the worst, a mark set this May, but did that first hour set a record, and not in the good way? 1.69 million viewers unopposed by anything major, no holiday, no sports running, no major political event like a party candidacy or presidential debate? Just a straight up, completely unopposed show?

People haven't seen hockey, baseball and basketball in months and the leagues are going to try to open with a bang. People are underestimating how much its going to hurt. I can EASILY see total viewership dropping 20 percent.


----------



## FITZ

ClintDagger said:


> People need to stop looking at this as who are or aren’t the draws and instead look at who or what are the “anti-draws”. It’s pretty easy to see what really turns viewers off.


If you're equating TV ratings to draws then looking at the last decade the only conclusion is that all wrestlers are "anti-draws." Actually, if you're looking at TV ratings in general the conclusion is that all things are anti draws because no matter what is put on TV less people are watching things on TV.


----------



## Kentucky34

FITZ said:


> If you're equating TV ratings to draws then looking at the last decade the only conclusion is that all wrestlers are "anti-draws." Actually, if you're looking at TV ratings in general the conclusion is that all things are anti draws because no matter what is put on TV less people are watching things on TV.


Which is why that number is very impressive really. 

Although I think they should book the company around Rollins now. He is drawing the best hourly ratings.


----------



## Zappers

Tk Adeyemi said:


> This makes no sense. If the horsewomen who along with Alexa have the most fans can’t raise the ratings then u think the others with no fans and build can. Lmao I don’t know what’s laughable the fact that u are blaming the horsewomen or the fact that u think the other women can improve ratings 😂😂😂. Listen nobody is a draw in professional wrestling except Dwayne the rock Johnson and he has better things to do with his life.


But here's the thing. No other women except for the Four, have been in the forefront. So until you give others the complete spotlight, you can't say they won't help in the ratings. We can do the comparisons all day and night. Simple fact is there's a certain someone that always gets higher ratings in her segments/matches than any of the FOUR. She's been doing it for years. Moving on... Asuka is the current RAW champ. She barely speaks English. She's gotten a little better, but it's only when she acts silly. She can't act "normal" and sell her character. She doesn't have the mic skills. Give Ruby Riott the RAW title right now and I bet she could do a lot with that run. The simple fact is people are bored with the FOUR. At least Charlotte has the it factor, but even still she's overused. The SD title is on the worst of the four in Bayley. She's only recently amped up her heel character because for months she bored us to tears. Guess what? It's to late. The damage is done.

Put that title on somebody else, watch the viewers get more interested. It's just a fact. Let Alexa Bliss go solo, win the SD title and hold it for a min of 3 to 4 months. Then get back to me when the fan interest goes up. Give Lacey either Title, try something new. But no. It's always the FOUR in some combination near the title. Think about it, two of them along with Ronda destroyed the women's division. The other two whined, complained, and went home offering zero. The rest of the women roster were left to pick up the pieces and have been trying to build back up what the four have tore down. Only problem, management has turned their backs on these women, only to appease the four and try to brainwash the WWE audience, no see this is how it should be. Look at what they did to the recent NXT stars. They were cannon fodder to pad the four's career stats.

The ego on the four is amazing. They actually believe they run the show. Maybe with the help of management and HHH they indeed do. There's a reason why Charlotte has like 20 matches in total of her entire career against a particular 5 time champ. She's deathly afraid of being shown up. They let Lacey get a "taste", look how quickly they quieted her down after she out mic'ed both Becky and Charlotte. It was embarrassing. You think they are gonna let the king out promo Becky or Charlotte? Hell no. It would be a massacre. If you notice, all the non threats get their shot. Look at Carmella, she got to go over Charlotte. Part is they knew Carmella is no real threat. They knew she always has that fun/silly side. Ahhh, put the title on Carmella, it will be fun for a while. Part Charlotte was going into surgery. Right place right time.


----------



## ClintDagger

FITZ said:


> If you're equating TV ratings to draws then looking at the last decade the only conclusion is that all wrestlers are "anti-draws." Actually, if you're looking at TV ratings in general the conclusion is that all things are anti draws because no matter what is put on TV less people are watching things on TV.


As far as WWE goes, there have been periods of ratings stabilizing and even going up so I think your premise is a bit off. And as far as tv goes, there are shows that still do big numbers.

But let’s just say for arguments’ sake what you’re saying is true. There are still talents that seem to turn away viewers more than others. Seems like the way to go is to maximize your viewership if you’re WWE especially given how much they depend on those tv contracts.


----------



## DammitChrist

Zappers said:


> But here's the thing. No other women except for the Four, have been in the forefront. So until you give others the complete spotlight, you can't say they won't help in the ratings. We can do the comparisons all day and night. Simple fact is there's a certain someone that always gets higher ratings in her segments/matches than any of the FOUR. She's been doing it for years. Moving on... Asuka is the current RAW champ. She barely speaks English. She's gotten a little better, but it's only when she acts silly. She can't act "normal" and sell her character. She doesn't have the mic skills. Give Ruby Riott the RAW title right now and I bet she could do a lot with that run. The simple fact is people are bored with the FOUR. At least Charlotte has the it factor, but even still she's overused. The SD title is on the worst of the four in Bayley. She's only recently amped up her heel character because for months she bored us to tears. Guess what? It's to late. The damage is done.
> 
> Put that title on somebody else, watch the viewers get more interested. It's just a fact. Let Alexa Bliss go solo, win the SD title and hold it for a min of 3 to 4 months. Then get back to me when the fan interest goes up. Give Lacey either Title, try something new. But no. It's always the FOUR in some combination near the title. Think about it, two of them along with Ronda destroyed the women's division. The other two whined, complained, and went home offering zero. The rest of the women roster were left to pick up the pieces and have been trying to build back up what the four have tore down. Only problem, management has turned their backs on these women, only to appease the four and try to brainwash the WWE audience, no see this is how it should be. Look at what they did to the recent NXT stars. They were cannon fodder to pad the four's career stats.
> 
> The ego on the four is amazing. They actually believe they run the show. Maybe with the help of management and HHH they indeed do. There's a reason why Charlotte has like 20 matches in total of her entire career against a particular 5 time champ. She's deathly afraid of being shown up. They let Lacey get a "taste", look how quickly they quieted her down after she out mic'ed both Becky and Charlotte. It was embarrassing. You think they are gonna let the king out promo Becky or Charlotte? Hell no. It would be a massacre. If you notice, all the non threats get their shot. Look at Carmella, she got to go over Charlotte. Part is they knew Carmella is no real threat. They knew she always has that fun/silly side. Ahhh, put the title on Carmella, it will be fun for a while. Part Charlotte was going into surgery. Right place right time.


Dude, I know you love Alexa Bliss (while I genuinely like her too), but you’re going to be disappointed to see that the ratings will still be shitty/low when she wins a world title again, and the viewership is still below 2 million viewers. 

The same goes for other women who aren’t in the main-event scene atm such as Ruby Riott, Lacey Evans, and Liv Morgan. They’re not going to make a major positive difference in the ratings either.

Hell, remember early last year when the likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston and Becky Lynch were 3 of the most over/popular wrestlers on the main roster? They ALL won the world titles at Wrestlemania 35. Their overness played a big factor in them getting their respective lengthy world title runs. 

Ratings were already decreasing before Rollins, Kofi, and Becky got their big pushes early last year; so you’d THINK that they’d help increase the ratings knowing how over those 3 names were with the crowds. However, they were unable to save the ratings since viewership just continues to decline in spite of their popularity. Hell, all 3 of them officially lost their world championships as of this past May, and the ratings still continue to get lower. 

The WWE actually listened to what the fans really wanted at Wrestlemania 35 (which I think at that point was the first time in a while that they started heavily pushing the fan favorites simultaneously). I don’t get why ANYONE here keeps expecting ratings to increase (back to 2 million viewers in those case) if the company decided to push someone else in the main-event scene. If the likes of Rollins, Kofi, and Becky couldn’t prevent ratings from falling further despite being big fan favorites (back when they got their main-event pushes AT THE SAME TIME, then what makes ANYONE here think that the results will be any different with some other (fan) favorite of theirs getting pushed at the top?

I love watching the likes of Rollins, Becky, and Kofi (along with some other names who’ve been in the main-event recently); but none of my favorites here are big TV draws. I don’t think anyone on the main roster is really a major TV draw anyway. The ratings out of their control too.

Anyway, the reason why they push the Four Horsewomen is because they’re 4 of the best women that they have on the main roster; so they belong near/around the main-event scene. Folks like you might be tired of them, but those 4 women have big fanbases. I’ll assure you that they have plenty of fans who are still interested in the Four Horsewomen, and that they want to keep seeing them get pushed/featured on TV.

I’d say Asuka and Alexa Bliss are also just as worthy of being top women as the Four Horsewomen are since they’re pretty damn good female talents too out of the women they currently have. I’d also give shout-outs to Mickie James and Kairi Sane too (despite being injured/underutilized). There’s also hidden potential in Ruby Riott too if they ever give her a push to connect more with the fans, and Nikki Cross is a talented dark horse too. You’d have a healthy women’s division with those women being strongly featured on TV near/around the main-event scene (with probably half those women being on Raw and the other half of those women being on Smackdown). 

Anyway, Sasha Banks and Bayley aren’t “tanking” the ratings. They just happen to be strongly pushed at a time when WWE continues to really struggle with preventing the TV ratings from declining. People are just getting more burnt out by the WWE product no matter if a show happens to be good or mediocre, and no matter who gets pushed on top. 

If the company REALLY wants the ratings to increase (even back to 2 million viewers), then they need to try their damn best to write good shows consistently on a weekly basis for several months without doing much half-assing. Plus, they need to keep focusing more on the full-time talents and definitely put their emphasis less on the part-time acts (without having them go over or squash the current wrestlers they have). It’s also good for them to make sure that the wrestlers they book to be world champs are talented, and names that most fans accept (at the top).


----------



## ClintDagger

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, I know you love Alexa Bliss (while I genuinely like her too), but you’re going to be disappointed to see that the ratings will still be shitty/low when she wins a world title again, and the viewership is still below 2 million viewers.
> 
> The same goes for other women who aren’t in the main-event scene atm such as Ruby Riott, Lacey Evans, and Liv Morgan. They’re not going to make a major positive difference in the ratings either.
> 
> Hell, remember early last year when the likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston and Becky Lynch were 3 of the most over/popular wrestlers on the main roster? They ALL won the world titles at Wrestlemania 35. Their overness played a big factor in them getting their respective lengthy world title runs.
> 
> Ratings were already decreasing before Rollins, Kofi, and Becky got their big pushes early last year; so you’d THINK that they’d help increase the ratings knowing how over those 3 names were with the crowds. However, they were unable to save the ratings since viewership just continues to decline in spite of their popularity. Hell, all 3 of them officially lost their world championships as of this past May, and the ratings still continue to get lower.
> 
> The WWE actually listened to what the fans really wanted at Wrestlemania 35 (which I think at that point was the first time in a while that they started heavily pushing the fan favorites simultaneously). I don’t get why ANYONE here keeps expecting ratings to increase (back to 2 million viewers in those case) if the company decided to push someone else in the main-event scene. If the likes of Rollins, Kofi, and Becky couldn’t prevent ratings from falling further despite being big fan favorites (back when they got their main-event pushes AT THE SAME TIME, then what makes ANYONE here think that the results will be any different with some other (fan) favorite of theirs getting pushed at the top?
> 
> I love watching the likes of Rollins, Becky, and Kofi (along with some other names who’ve been in the main-event recently); but none of my favorites here are big TV draws. I don’t think anyone on the main roster is really a major TV draw anyway. The ratings out of their control too.
> 
> Anyway, the reason why they push the Four Horsewomen is because they’re 4 of the best women that they have on the main roster; so they belong near/around the main-event scene. Folks like you might be tired of them, but those 4 women have big fanbases. I’ll assure you that they have plenty of fans who are still interested in the Four Horsewomen, and that they want to keep seeing them get pushed/featured on TV.
> 
> I’d say Asuka and Alexa Bliss are also just as worthy of being top women as the Four Horsewomen are since they’re pretty damn good female talents too out of the women they currently have. I’d also give shout-outs to Mickie James and Kairi Sane too (despite being injured/underutilized). There’s also hidden potential in Ruby Riott too if they ever give her a push to connect more with the fans, and Nikki Cross is a talented dark horse too. You’d have a healthy women’s division with those women being strongly featured on TV near/around the main-event scene (with probably half those women being on Raw and the other half of those women being on Smackdown).
> 
> Anyway, Sasha Banks and Bayley aren’t “tanking” the ratings. They just happen to be strongly pushed at a time when WWE continues to really struggle with preventing the TV ratings from declining. People are just getting more burnt out by the WWE product no matter if a show happens to be good or mediocre, and no matter who gets pushed on top.
> 
> If the company REALLY wants the ratings to increase (even back to 2 million viewers), then they need to try their damn best to write good shows consistently on a weekly basis for several months without doing much half-assing. Plus, they need to keep focusing more on the full-time talents and definitely put their emphasis less on the part-time acts (without having them go over or squash the current wrestlers they have). It’s also good for them to make sure that the wrestlers they book to be world champs are talented, and names that most fans accept (at the top).


To further your point, the post Rumble and post WM ratings last year dropped a crazy amount. Essentially it was the death of the RTWM bump as we knew it. So going with the hardcore fanbase’s favorites not only didn’t reverse the ratings trend, it actually made it much worse. It just goes to show the disconnect amongst the fanbase on each end of the spectrum.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, I know you love Alexa Bliss (while I genuinely like her too), but you’re going to be disappointed to see that the ratings will still be shitty/low when she wins a world title again, and the viewership is still below 2 million viewers.
> 
> The same goes for other women who aren’t in the main-event scene atm such as Ruby Riott, Lacey Evans, and Liv Morgan. They’re not going to make a major positive difference in the ratings either.
> 
> Hell, remember early last year when the likes of Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston and Becky Lynch were 3 of the most over/popular wrestlers on the main roster? They ALL won the world titles at Wrestlemania 35. Their overness played a big factor in them getting their respective lengthy world title runs.
> 
> Ratings were already decreasing before Rollins, Kofi, and Becky got their big pushes early last year; so you’d THINK that they’d help increase the ratings knowing how over those 3 names were with the crowds. However, they were unable to save the ratings since viewership just continues to decline in spite of their popularity. Hell, all 3 of them officially lost their world championships as of this past May, and the ratings still continue to get lower.
> 
> The WWE actually listened to what the fans really wanted at Wrestlemania 35 (which I think at that point was the first time in a while that they started heavily pushing the fan favorites simultaneously). I don’t get why ANYONE here keeps expecting ratings to increase (back to 2 million viewers in those case) if the company decided to push someone else in the main-event scene. If the likes of Rollins, Kofi, and Becky couldn’t prevent ratings from falling further despite being big fan favorites (back when they got their main-event pushes AT THE SAME TIME, then what makes ANYONE here think that the results will be any different with some other (fan) favorite of theirs getting pushed at the top?
> 
> I love watching the likes of Rollins, Becky, and Kofi (along with some other names who’ve been in the main-event recently); but none of my favorites here are big TV draws. I don’t think anyone on the main roster is really a major TV draw anyway. The ratings out of their control too.
> 
> Anyway, the reason why they push the Four Horsewomen is because they’re 4 of the best women that they have on the main roster; so they belong near/around the main-event scene. Folks like you might be tired of them, but those 4 women have big fanbases. I’ll assure you that they have plenty of fans who are still interested in the Four Horsewomen, and that they want to keep seeing them get pushed/featured on TV.
> 
> I’d say Asuka and Alexa Bliss are also just as worthy of being top women as the Four Horsewomen are since they’re pretty damn good female talents too out of the women they currently have. I’d also give shout-outs to Mickie James and Kairi Sane too (despite being injured/underutilized). There’s also hidden potential in Ruby Riott too if they ever give her a push to connect more with the fans, and Nikki Cross is a talented dark horse too. You’d have a healthy women’s division with those women being strongly featured on TV near/around the main-event scene (with probably half those women being on Raw and the other half of those women being on Smackdown).
> 
> Anyway, Sasha Banks and Bayley aren’t “tanking” the ratings. They just happen to be strongly pushed at a time when WWE continues to really struggle with preventing the TV ratings from declining. People are just getting more burnt out by the WWE product no matter if a show happens to be good or mediocre, and no matter who gets pushed on top.
> 
> If the company REALLY wants the ratings to increase (even back to 2 million viewers), then they need to try their damn best to write good shows consistently on a weekly basis for several months without doing much half-assing. Plus, they need to keep focusing more on the full-time talents and definitely put their emphasis less on the part-time acts (without having them go over or squash the current wrestlers they have). It’s also good for them to make sure that the wrestlers they book to be world champs are talented, and names that most fans accept (at the top).


This is the problem. The fact they continue to push the four is part of the problem. They are burnt out. There's nothing good left to write about them. They totally exhausted every story 10 fold about the 4. The audience is bored with them, they offer nothing new. The rest of the roster regardless of fanbase is fresh. If Liv Morgan has a tenth of the fanbase Bayley has, she will grow if given a chance. It just how things work. When the IIconics are on the screen, it's something different. Even if they just stand there and talk. And let me tell you something, putting wrestling aside(which is about half of the total package of skills to be a wrestler) The IIconics are way more interesting then Bayley imho.

In your opinion the ratings wont go up if they use different people. How can you say that if the WWE has never done it yet? You're only guessing they won't go up, like I'm guessing they might. It's worth a shot, there's nothing to lose at this point. The only facts we have right now in front of us, same old, same old players. Ratings are dropping week after week, month after month, year, after year. Covid or not. The rating were dropping before Covid. Speaking women only, the FOUR have "ruled" the airwaves. There's nothing to hide, the proof is there.

Speaking of Alexa, they haven't even scratched the surface of a proper FACE run. Not even close, tons of material to write. And yes, Alexa's segments "usually" for the most part do well. She was getting higher ratings in her segments/matches than Becky and crew more times than not going back as far as her debut. Why that is, is subjective.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Zappers said:


> But here's the thing. No other women except for the Four, have been in the forefront. So until you give others the complete spotlight, you can't say they won't help in the ratings. We can do the comparisons all day and night. Simple fact is there's a certain someone that always gets higher ratings in her segments/matches than any of the FOUR. She's been doing it for years. Moving on... Asuka is the current RAW champ. She barely speaks English. She's gotten a little better, but it's only when she acts silly. She can't act "normal" and sell her character. She doesn't have the mic skills. Give Ruby Riott the RAW title right now and I bet she could do a lot with that run. The simple fact is people are bored with the FOUR. At least Charlotte has the it factor, but even still she's overused. The SD title is on the worst of the four in Bayley. She's only recently amped up her heel character because for months she bored us to tears. Guess what? It's to late. The damage is done.
> 
> Put that title on somebody else, watch the viewers get more interested. It's just a fact. Let Alexa Bliss go solo, win the SD title and hold it for a min of 3 to 4 months. Then get back to me when the fan interest goes up. Give Lacey either Title, try something new. But no. It's always the FOUR in some combination near the title. Think about it, two of them along with Ronda destroyed the women's division. The other two whined, complained, and went home offering zero. The rest of the women roster were left to pick up the pieces and have been trying to build back up what the four have tore down. Only problem, management has turned their backs on these women, only to appease the four and try to brainwash the WWE audience, no see this is how it should be. Look at what they did to the recent NXT stars. They were cannon fodder to pad the four's career stats.
> 
> The ego on the four is amazing. They actually believe they run the show. Maybe with the help of management and HHH they indeed do. There's a reason why Charlotte has like 20 matches in total of her entire career against a particular 5 time champ. She's deathly afraid of being shown up. They let Lacey get a "taste", look how quickly they quieted her down after she out mic'ed both Becky and Charlotte. It was embarrassing. You think they are gonna let the king out promo Becky or Charlotte? Hell no. It would be a massacre. If you notice, all the non threats get their shot. Look at Carmella, she got to go over Charlotte. Part is they knew Carmella is no real threat. They knew she always has that fun/silly side. Ahhh, put the title on Carmella, it will be fun for a while. Part Charlotte was going into surgery. Right place right time.


So the horsewomen are overpushed yet 5 time champ Alexa who dominated the division until Ronda came in isn't? Is this all just a whine about Alexa not getting enough pushes while hiding it by talking about other random females just to hide it? You cant be serious with this diatribe.


----------



## Randy Lahey

FITZ said:


> If you're equating TV ratings to draws then looking at the last decade the only conclusion is that all wrestlers are "anti-draws." Actually, if you're looking at TV ratings in general the conclusion is that all things are anti draws because no matter what is put on TV less people are watching things on TV.


Not during the pandemic. Most TV ratings are up for regular TV shows, except Raw of course.


----------



## Not Lying

The last time a segment drew over 2.1m views on RAW was for Becky.
LMAO and you still got some geeks here pretending she's not a draw. Looks like about 200K Becky fans quit watching between her pregnancy announcement and now.


----------



## Rozzop

You dedicate half your shows to women in 1999 and the ratings would be the same as they are now. 

This isn't reality tv or a soap opera. It's simulated fighting with a target audience of predominately males. 

How many women fighters have drawn in all of wrestling/boxing/judo etc? Rousey? I can't think of any others. 

Half of the show is dedicated to them. In years gone by this time would have been spent on the midcard or upper midcard or even tag teams. 

In 2000 would you rather watch Edge vs Hardcore Holly or Asuka vs Peyton Royce? 

And the posters here don't get it. 

They are targeting a small audience pool with womens wrestling and alienating the much larger audience pool that want mens wrestling.


----------



## endiadj

The Definition of Technician said:


> The last time a segment drew over 2.1m views on RAW was for Becky.
> LMAO and you still got some geeks here pretending she's not a draw. Looks like about 200K Becky fans quit watching between her pregnancy announcement and now.


So, the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT segment of her leaving and giving up her belt that she monopolized for over a year drew better than usual? It took all of that? Okay...


----------



## RT1981

the horsewomen are anti draws and the ratings prove it.Look at Becky 's reign of terror and her road to Wrestlemania last year she ran off over a million viewers and look like Sasha and Bayley are about run whats left of the viewers off cause ratings have been going down on both showes since they started getting over expose and don't get me started on Charlotte Flair.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> the horsewomen are anti draws and the ratings prove it.Look at Becky 's reign of terror and her road to Wrestlemania last year she ran off over a million viewers and look like Sasha and Bayley are about run whats left of the viewers off cause ratings have been going down on both showes since they started getting over expose and don't get me started on Charlotte Flair.


Again, the ratings have already been declining over the past decade LONG before the Four Horsewomen even got pushed, and the viewership will still be low no matter who ends up getting pushed. 

If you want to continue making idiotic posts like these (blaming those individual female talents) while blatantly ignoring my valid points about the continuous downward trend with the ratings, then that just makes you plain ignorant too.


----------



## Randy Lahey

DammitChrist said:


> Again, the ratings have already been declining over the past decade LONG before the Four Horsewomen even got pushed, and the viewership will still be low no matter who ends up getting pushed.
> 
> If you want to continue making idiotic posts like these (blaming those individual female talents) while blatantly ignoring my valid points about the continuous downward trend with the ratings, then that just makes you plain ignorant too.


Clearly you don’t understand statistics. The RATE of decline has increased SUBSTANTIALLY since WWE started pushing women and the geeks.

From 2004 to 2014, ratings were consistent. A slow bleed not much different from cable TV in general.

From 2012-14, WWE pulled around 4-4.5 mil viewers per show.

In 5 years since then, they are down to 1.7 mils.

Name another 5 year period in WWE history where they lost 65% of their audience? Guess what. You can’t.

What’s the one thing that has changed more than any other in the last 5 years. Women’s wrestling. Period


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Clearly you don’t understand statistics. The RATE of decline has increased SUBSTANTIALLY since WWE started pushing women and the geeks.
> 
> From 2004 to 2014, ratings were consistent. A slow bleed not much different from cable TV in general.
> 
> From 2012-14, WWE pulled around 4-4.5 mil viewers per show.
> 
> In 5 years since then, they are down to 1.7 mils.
> 
> Name another 5 year period in WWE history where they lost 65% of their audience? Guess what. You can’t.
> 
> What’s the one thing that has changed more than any other in the last 5 years. Women’s wrestling. Period


Have you EVER considered the fact that the ratings decreased dramatically over the past 5 years because of the WWE's overreliance of the part-timers (going over the full-timers too), their questionable decision to have only 1-2 main-eventers get booked strongly over the rest of the roster at their expense (mostly back from 2015-2018), the company allowing a part-timer to hold the Universal title hostage for AT LEAST least a full year (which left the Raw main-eventers plus upper-midcarders fighting with barely any important stakes on the line), their inability to capitalize on the overness of SEVERAL talents without ruining most of their momentum in recent years, their lack of good/compelling storylines (especially in the midcard scene), their failure to create big/new stars due to mediocre booking along with poor presentation over the past few years (while someone who was able to become a big star like John Cena gradually became a part-timer before leaving wrestling altogether), their inability to make most segments/matches on TV feel like they actually matter (which is especially the case from most of 2017 through 2019), their inconsistency in writing good/entertaining weekly shows on a consistent basis (aside from a few good short periods) over the past few years, and that AWFUL wildcard rule they implemented last year where they made the brand split feel worthless (which played a BIG part in WWE's mediocre programming on both shows last summer)?

All of these factors noticeably took place over the past 5 years, which just happens to be when the overall product became worse compared to previous years. There's more to what's causing people to tune out from watching WWE than just what individual talents get pushed, which just happen to be during this continuous downward trend with the ratings (since overall viewership STILL declines no matter who they decide to push or spotlight). There's all these other aforementioned factors too that's really contributing to the company losing more viewers. 

Fuck off with your false assumption that I "don't understand" statistics. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's objective that the ratings declining is a company-related problem rather than anything to do with any of the individual wrestlers. It'd be beyond moronic for ANYONE to blame the low ratings on ANY individual talent at this point in 2020, and that INCLUDES the women; especially when there's plenty of recent history/evidence showing how they've pushed DOZENS of different wrestlers to the main-event scene without any of them making a major difference to save the viewership.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> Clearly you don’t understand statistics. The RATE of decline has increased SUBSTANTIALLY since WWE started pushing women and the geeks.
> 
> From 2004 to 2014, ratings were consistent. A slow bleed not much different from cable TV in general.
> 
> From 2012-14, WWE pulled around 4-4.5 mil viewers per show.
> 
> In 5 years since then, they are down to 1.7 mils.
> 
> Name another 5 year period in WWE history where they lost 65% of their audience? Guess what. You can’t.
> 
> What’s the one thing that has changed more than any other in the last 5 years. Women’s wrestling. Period


The ratings absolutely died when they made Becky the focal point of the show. They pulled way back on her and went back to a more normal RTWM formula and the ratings rebounded. It’s a statistical fact.


----------



## Randy Lahey

ClintDagger said:


> The ratings absolutely died when they made Becky the focal point of the show. They pulled way back on her and went back to a more normal RTWM formula and the ratings rebounded. It’s a statistical fact.


I would agree. And I think the biggest mistake they made ratings wise before that was having Roman Reigns win the 2015 Royal Rumble instead of Daniel Bryan. Fans tuned out when Roman got the mega push and the WWE shit on bryan.


----------



## Kentucky34

ClintDagger said:


> The ratings absolutely died when they made Becky the focal point of the show. They pulled way back on her and went back to a more normal RTWM formula and the ratings rebounded. It’s a statistical fact.


That was also because they put the belt on Seth. 

The numbers during the summer of 2019 were incredible.


----------



## RT1981

ClintDagger said:


> The ratings absolutely died when they made Becky the focal point of the show. They pulled way back on her and went back to a more normal RTWM formula and the ratings rebounded. It’s a statistical fact.


they did'n pull back on her she been all over the show for the last year and thats why the ratings have went to shit.


----------



## endiadj

I don't believe it's the wrestlers. It's the booking for them that suck. These are extremely talented athletes that have been overbooked or underbooked, and stuck in silly, stale feuds and storylines. Fans take it out on the wrestlers when they're just doing their jobs.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> The ratings absolutely died when they made Becky the focal point of the show. They pulled way back on her and went back to a more normal RTWM formula and the ratings rebounded. *It’s a statistical fact.*


No. 
A lot of shit wrong with your comment here that I've already addressed before.
So for any newbie here, Clint has no idea what fact is and will twist everything to make it seem like the past 18 months ratings decline were due to WWE putting focus on Becky for 2 RAW show. 
If you don't see how ludicrous that is, no hope for you.


----------



## Carter84

@DammitChrist Carlos your spot on, freaking go on my fellow wrestling fan, your spot on

Hope you n ur family are ok

Carter


----------



## Kentucky34

Becky shouldn't be blamed for the ratings but she didn't help either. 

Only Seth and Bryan can bring viewers back after Covid.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw just did a record low at 1.561 million, and thats with the Women's tag titles on the line as the main event. Woof.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Sooooo glad no one I care about is main-eventing these days, lol.


----------



## InexorableJourney




----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Raw just did a record low at 1.561 million, and thats with the Women's tag titles on the line as the main event. Woof.


Yeah, women don’t draw. Never have unless it was Lita and Trish.

Vince going woke, going broke


----------



## postmoderno

Wow.

Deserved, but still, wow.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw’s demo was a 0.48.
90 Day Fiancé did a 0.88 

😂

It’s one thing to get slaughtered by MNF. But USA Network is losing not only to all the news channels, but they are losing to TLC Network. 

Whoever negotiated the Raw TV deal should be fired by NBC Universal


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> Raw just did a record low at 1.561 million, and thats with the Women's tag titles on the line as the main event. Woof.


 On reddit all you see is stans talking about wOmenz wRestLinG cArryInG wWe lmfao.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132389447917569


----------



## DaSlacker

Wow, just wow.

Now If only AEW had held their shit together and booked intelligently late last year.


----------



## endiadj

Damn! Just glad Charlotte's not here for this cause it would be all her fault.😂


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132389447917569


 #TheDraw breaking them records @BOSS of Bel-Air


----------



## Randy Lahey

Khan should move AEW to Monday night. Raw is on its death bed.


----------



## BPG

As you can see, the philosophy of shit for children without extreme on extreme does not fade

Keep doing this, mentally retarded master makes ratings


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Khan should move AEW to Monday night. Raw is on its death bed.


If they weren't drawing 600K weekly they should.


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> Wow, just wow.
> 
> Now If only AEW had held their shit together and booked intelligently late last year.


The booking was good until the covid


----------



## Frost99




----------



## rbl85

What the fuck happened for the first hour to do sub 1.6M ?


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Khan should move AEW to Monday night. Raw is on its death bed.


I'm not sure about this. I prefer having two really good wrestling shows taking place simultaneously on the same night  

It's pretty much why I always look forward to Wednesday nights nowadays, and I'm probably not the only one who feels this way too


----------



## Kentucky34

Told you the women do not draw.

Why wasn't Seth and Kevin booked in the main event? That would have bumped the numbers. 

WWE has been crap since January. They should have never demoted Seth.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.580M [23rd] | 0.490D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.599M [21st] | 0.480D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.504M [26th] | 0.480D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.561M | 0.483D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.019M | + 1.20% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 2.04% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.095M | - 5.94% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.076M | - 4.81% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 2.04% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.126M | - 7.47% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 2.03% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.892M | - 36.36% ]
[ - 0.317D | - 39.63% ]*


----------



## DammitChrist

Wow, every hour last night was pretty much in the 1.5 million viewer-range?


----------



## kazarn

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## MoxAsylum

Showstopper said:


> Raw just did a record low at 1.561 million, and thats with the Women's tag titles on the line as the main event. Woof.


Proof that nobody cares about women’s wrestling....the ratings will continue crashing because there’s absolutely zero star power anymore other than Orton and Edge, sadly Orton is stuck feuding with Big Show


----------



## ElTerrible

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw’s demo was a 0.48.
> 90 Day Fiancé did a 0.88
> 
> 😂
> 
> It’s one thing to get slaughtered by MNF. But USA Network is losing not only to all the news channels, but they are losing to TLC Network.
> 
> Whoever negotiated the Raw TV deal should be fired by NBC Universal


I don´t know how long you have to stay on a channel to be counted as viewing the program under Nielsen rules, a percentage threhold of any 15 minute interval? If one pissbreak football channel flipping already counts, then WWE ratings would be better off, if there was good counter-programming. 

Therefore I have never 100% subscribed to the idea that good counter-programming is bad for your own ratings, especially MNF, unless you show me the measuring techniques behind it. 

WWE obviously can´t get many to tune into Raw as their first choice anyway, so the more people are in front of a TV, because there is quality content elsewhere, the more of a chance that a Nielsen household switches to Raw, because the football or basketball game is boring that night or in one of it´s many commerical breaks.


----------



## Rozzop

I mean what did people expect? 

Bayley and Sasha against Kabuki Warriors? That'll draw the fans...

AEW had the perfect opportunity to be the new cool hip promotion but they seem just as SJW and woke as WWE and it reflects in the ratings.


----------



## RT1981

lmao Sasha and Bayley once again show why WWE needs to quit pushing them before they end up running all the viewers away.


----------



## postmoderno

Women's wrestling may be part of the problem, but it's far from the only problem.


----------



## InexorableJourney

USA may get better viewing figures by showing popular youtube videos in RAW's place.


----------



## ShadowCounter

LMAO and people were surprised they would drop below 2 million viewers not too long ago. Now it's 1.5 million. How long until it's below a million at this rate? 6 months?


----------



## Erik.

Rozzop said:


> I mean what did people expect?
> 
> Bayley and Sasha against Kabuki Warriors? That'll draw the fans...
> 
> AEW had the perfect opportunity to be the new cool hip promotion but they seem just as SJW and woke as WWE and it reflects in the ratings.


Not really sure 'cool and hip' and 'wrestling' should ever be used in the same sentence.


----------



## .christopher.

Fools actually think the trash women of today are some of the best women wrestlers ever. Fuck outta here. Ain't fit to lace Trish, Lita, Chyna, Molly Holly etc boots.


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> The booking was good until the covid


I love AEW and yeah, covid has hit them badly. But they left a lot to be desired.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DaSlacker said:


> I love AEW and yeah, covid has hit them badly. But they left a lot to be desired.


I think AEW is more in a holding pattern right now. They changed booking philosophy after covid. I think they are just going through the motions until it is over and saving their "big stuff" for when a crowd can show up. Not wanting to blow their load on an iffy audience so to speak. Maybe I'm wrong but we'll see.


----------



## God Movement

Roman needs to come back ASAP. These people are killing the business.


----------



## chronoxiong

That is a sad rating. Damns. I know people aren't watching RAW that much these days and you can tell from the lack of message boards posts but that is low. Can't believe it. Its a sinking ship.


----------



## RT1981

ShadowCounter said:


> LMAO and people were surprised they would drop below 2 million viewers not too long ago. Now it's 1.5 million. How long until it's below a million at this rate? 6 months?


I think when the NBA starts back and have games on Monday its a chance there they could fall below one million either way they be below million before christmas.


----------



## InexorableJourney

WWE's second quarter report to be announced in a few weeks.

I wonder who's head falls this time.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Fools actually think the trash women of today are some of the best women wrestlers ever. Fuck outta here. Ain't fit to lace Trish, Lita, Chyna, Molly Holly etc boots.


How are the current women “trash?”

Many of them aren’t completely shitty talents like Nia Jax and Tamina.

In fact, the company overall has a really solid women’s division that’s mostly filled with good and talented wrestlers.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

Unless you're someone who's willing to put all of the blame on the booking (which I believe is wrong), then surely questions have to be asked about the success of, or rather lack of, NXT at this point? I know it's evolved since 2010 but it still remains generally the place where people begin before moving onto, and in theory improving, the main roster yet ratings are plummeting. Doesn't that indicate to at least some degree a lack of interest in the wrestlers NXT has/is producing?


----------



## DaSlacker

InexorableJourney said:


> WWE's second quarter report to be announced in a few weeks.
> 
> I wonder who's head falls this time.



TV rights will keep the money rolling in
Vince will blame covid and absent Brock, Roman on falling ratings, subscriptions
Record social media followers, record profits, top demos
NXT a success, creating new stars
Clueless investors buy his crap
Everybody else realises interest has dwindled seriously since 2014


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ok fair enough, since we're playing that game, I hope people maintain that same energy when the ratings are low for an all male main event on raw. So the new rule is that ratings are the fault of the main event. Now that the standards set...


----------



## ShadowCounter

RT1981 said:


> I think when the NBA starts back and have games on Monday its a chance there they could fall below one million either way they be below million before christmas.


I didn't even think about the NBA returning. 6 months might have been too optimistic. 2 months might be more realistic.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DaSlacker said:


> TV rights will keep the money rolling in
> Vince will blame covid and absent Brock, Roman on falling ratings, subscriptions
> Record social media followers, record profits, top demos
> NXT a success, creating new stars
> Clueless investors buy his crap
> Everybody else realises interest has dwindled seriously since 2014


So same old Vinny McBullshit. How long until investors stop falling for this carny crap?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Apparently, this week's 3 hour is not only the lowest rated third hour, but the lowest rated hour out of ANY hour in Raw's 27 year history!

Wow!


----------



## Ham and Egger

Wrestling in the covid era has proven to be unwatchable as there is no fans in attendance. Without the big arenas, fans, signs, and chants, wrestling is kinda boring.


----------



## DaSlacker

ShadowCounter said:


> So same old Vinny McBullshit. How long until investors stop falling for this carny crap?


Fox kicking them to to the curb and USA offering a reduced deal. Mattel and Take Two Interactive bailing on them. Without those TV deals they're in 1995 territory.

Funnily enough TBS just renewed their deal with MLB for 470 million per year - games can varyi widely in terms of viewership. Maybe Vince can keep convincing these executives that WWE is as valuable as a real sports organisation lol.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> Fox kicking them to to the curb and USA offering a reduced deal. Mattel and Take Two Interactive bailing on them. Without those TV deals they're in 1995 territory.
> 
> Funnily enough TBS just renewed their deal with MLB for 470 million per year - games can varyi widely in terms of viewership. Maybe Vince can keep convincing these executives that WWE is as valuable as a real sports organisation lol.


Without the TV deals, they literally have only international television deals and online merchandising to go by. That's it. That's worse than 1995 territory.


----------



## Dr. Jones

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> Unless you're someone who's willing to put all of the blame on the booking (which I believe is wrong), then surely questions have to be asked about the success of, or rather lack of, NXT at this point? I know it's evolved since 2010 but it still remains generally the place where people begin before moving onto, and in theory improving, the main roster yet ratings are plummeting. Doesn't that indicate to at least some degree a lack of interest in the wrestlers NXT has/is producing?


Yes, an objective business man would take a good hard look at the talent that HHH is scouting and developing. I don't watch a ton of NXT, so I can't speak very definitively about this, but what I have seen, I just don't get it with most of these guys/girls.

They really didn't realize how valuable it was to be able to get talent in the 80s and 90s like Hogan, Savage, Dibiase, Hennig, Austin, Foley, Nash, Hall, Taker, etc... that had been through multiple territories and had to learn from the ground up.

NXT just seems like kids gloves and a Disney presentation where everything is clean and everyone thinks they're a million bucks because 200 people in the PC cheered for them


----------



## Kentucky34

Showstopper said:


> Apparently, this week's 3 hour is not only the lowest rated third hour, but the lowest rated hour out of ANY hour in Raw's 27 year history!
> 
> Wow!


And people say that Seth was a bad draw.

WWE would kill for the numbers Seth drew now.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> And people say that Seth was a bad draw.
> 
> WWE would kill for the numbers Seth drew now.


You know Seth was still there last night, right?


----------



## Kentucky34

ShadowCounter said:


> You know Seth was still there last night, right?


Not featured in the main events.

If he was they would still be doing 1.7 or 1.8 million viewers.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> Not featured in the main events.
> 
> If he was they would still be doing 1.7 or 1.8 million viewers.


That makes no sense. If he gets people to watch then they will watch for him no matter what. Seth started hour 2 and there was only a 0.099 ratings increase for the hour. Even if we attribute all that to Seth it is a far cry from the 200-300k increase you're talking about. Not that that is a very big increase in itself.


----------



## The XL 2

The show is awful and has no stars. Covid has zero to do with it, Jorge Masvidal, a real star, had 1.3 million people both sign up for ESPN plus and additionally pay 65 dollars this weekend to watch him fight on UFC 251. WWE can barely get that many people to watch for free. WWE is dying and will be under 1 million viewers this time next year. AEW made a mistake going Wednesday, they should have gone head to head Monday. AEW is nothing special, but its better than Raw and they could have stole viewers.


----------



## Kentucky34

ShadowCounter said:


> That makes no sense. If he gets people to watch then they will watch for him no matter what. Seth started hour 2 and there was only a 0.099 ratings increase for the hour. Even if we attribute all that to Seth it is a far cry from the 200-300k increase you're talking about. Not that that is a very big increase in itself.


Seth is the only wrestler increasing the viewership. Hour 2 never beats hour 1. That is how big a draw Seth is.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> The show is awful and has no stars. Covid has zero to do with it, Jorge Masvidal, a real star, had 1.3 million people both sign up for ESPN plus and additionally pay 65 dollars this weekend to watch him fight on UFC 251. WWE can barely get that many people to watch for free. WWE is dying and will be under 1 million viewers this time next year. AEW made a mistake going Wednesday, they should have gone head to head Monday. AEW is nothing special, but its better than Raw and they could have stole viewers.


WWE have tons of stars.

It's the booking team's fault.


----------



## 304418

The XL 2 said:


> AEW made a mistake going Wednesday, they should have gone head to head Monday. AEW is nothing special, but its better than Raw and they could have stole viewers.


Nope. AEW is exactly where is needs to be. If they were on Mondays, it would encourage viewers to watch Raw. Fans (both WWE and non-WWE) are better off if Raw's ratings tank to AEW Dark levels or lower, while fans are encouraged to watch NXT. Its the best way to bring about change.

I will say it’s surprising that Raw's ratings is basically where the premiere of Dynamite was last fall. And it probably isn’t finished going lower, as we haven’t hit the 2020 fall season yet.


----------



## rexmundi

The number was pretty consistent. Consistently poor but I am surprised it didn't go lower. Maybe this is their rock bottom rating. If not then look out below because they might be in freefall.


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Ok fair enough, since we're playing that game, I hope people maintain that same energy when the ratings are low for an all male main event on raw. So the new rule is that ratings are the fault of the main event. Now that the standards set...


 #TheDraw


----------



## ClintDagger

RT1981 said:


> they did'n pull back on her she been all over the show for the last year and thats why the ratings have went to shit.


What are you talking about? After she won the rumble she got the Austin treatment and was in every other segment of Raw. The ratings tanked and they pulled back to put her in only one segment per show, brought in Batista and Hunter, and brought back Roman early and the ratings came back up. This isn’t my opinion, it’s a statistical fact.


rexmundi said:


> The number was pretty consistent. Consistently poor but I am surprised it didn't go lower. Maybe this is their rock bottom rating. If not then look out below because they might be in freefall.


I’ve been hearing people say for 5+ years that they’ve finally hit their rock bottom rating. Maybe at some point they will.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> #TheDraw


Your boy orton was hour 3 too, funny how you dont mention that


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Your boy orton was hour 3 too, funny how you dont mention that


 Orton hasn't opened himself up to trolling by calling himself #TheDraw


----------



## Hephaesteus

Yea but your argument was that he was. But we'll ignore that inconvenient bit of info, to allow you to continue gloating. LOL women amirite? Becky had it right barefoot and pregnant is the only proper position for a woman in the wwe


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Yea but your argument was that he was. But we'll ignore that inconvenient bit of info, to allow you to continue gloating. LOL women amirite? Becky had it right barefoot and pregnant is the only proper position for a woman in the wwe


 Nah, they just suck and are a pushing the younger demo out the door. They do not connect to that demo like a top male star would. Wrestling has been a male space forever, not many guys are going to stick around to watch women wrestle. You could say its fine if they made it up with more women watching but that doesn't seem to be the case, in fact numbers suggest the women also prefer watching the men.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132551264194561
Those are shocking figures, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince started pushing back against the womens stuff they're doing.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> Nah, they just suck and are a pushing the younger demo out the door. They do not connect to that demo like a top male star would. Wrestling has been a male space forever, not many guys are going to stick around to watch women wrestle. You could say its fine if they made it up with more women watching but that doesn't seem to be the case, in fact numbers suggest the women also prefer watching the men.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132551264194561
> Those are shocking figures, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince started pushing back against the womens stuff they're doing.


So your theory is that if they either got rid of or severely limited the role of women in general that the show would suddenly be fixed? Fact of the matter is that this is a shitty show that would even destroy the appeal of legends if they were to appear on the show on a weekly basis. 

These people cant even find mcintyre a proper challenger, but yea, the women are the problem, not the show in general.


----------



## Garty

With the continuing downfall in ratings, does anyone else notice the irony in this graphic now?


----------



## DammitChrist

These 4 women busted their asses off delivering a very good main-event last night, but yet I'm supposed to believe that they somehow "suck?" 

Jeez, I remember how CM Punk was falsely getting blamed by bitter folks for the 'low' ratings during his year-long WWE title reign back when I lurked on this site long before I started posting actively, and that was when Raw used to get around 3.5-4 million viewers. They were wrong for doing so then in 2012 (ESPECIALLY looking back at it now) just like it's wrong to act like anyone is 'tanking' the ratings now.

You'd think that with several years of WWE pushing dozens of wrestlers (male or female) in the main-event scene (with some of them being company favorites and some of them being fan favorites) to no avail that folks would just learn to quit blaming the individual talents since most of them were unable to prevent the ratings from continuing their downward trend; which has been happening since 2014 at least. Instead, some folks want to continue pushing their twisted narratives about who's "tanking" the ratings since they either haven't learned their lesson yet or they just haven't woken up yet with the reality.

The fact of the matter is that Raw's viewership will inevitably decline (closer) to 1 million viewers by the time this year ends no matter who they decide to push, and I GUARANTEE you that pushing newer/fresher acts to the main-event scene (which they'll eventually do) won't make a damn difference to the ratings later in the fall; yet I bet you'll still have some of the same mindless sheep holding the current wrestlers responsible for the ratings decline (like they've been doing since 2012 at least) if any of them just happen to be pushed later this fall 

Gee, it's almost like there's a disconnect between what the overall wrestling audience wants to see on TV every week and the creative quality of the company. It's almost as if the individual talents are just spokes on the wheel with most of them being used as pawns by what the creative team/managements gives them with their booking (with the continuing ratings decline being out of the control of the wrestlers), but hey, I'm sure that depushing the top women will suddenly get Raw back to 2 million viewers. After all, they do "suck"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

WWE are consistently in the top 10 for key demos. They’re not going anywhere. USA and Fox will be happy.

Now IF WWE reaches AEW levels of key demo, that’s when shit will get worrying. AEW are dirt cheap compared to WWE and Fox/USA would realise that. WWE would have difficulty obtaining the same contract when their current one runs out.


----------



## Kentucky34

Ace said:


> Nah, they just suck and are a pushing the younger demo out the door. They do not connect to that demo like a top male star would. Wrestling has been a male space forever, not many guys are going to stick around to watch women wrestle. You could say its fine if they made it up with more women watching but that doesn't seem to be the case, in fact numbers suggest the women also prefer watching the men.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132551264194561
> Those are shocking figures, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince started pushing back against the womens stuff they're doing.


A lot of adults turned off once Seth was demoted in February. 

Messing up Seth's push is the biggest mistake WWE has had in decades.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Dude stfu with Seth, he’s the biggest ratings loser. WWE went downhill ever since they made him a top star.

Anyways people need to stop making excuses for the women, they’re ratings killers.


----------



## Kentucky34

TheGreatBanana said:


> Dude stfu with Seth, he’s the biggest ratings loser. WWE went downhill ever since they made him a top star.
> 
> Anyways people need to stop making excuses for the women, they’re ratings killers.


No he isn't.

He took RAW to number 1 on cable last year and is in the top 5 draws WWE have had this century.


----------



## IronMan8

Dr. Jones said:


> Yes, an objective business man would take a good hard look at the talent that HHH is scouting and developing. I don't watch a ton of NXT, so I can't speak very definitively about this, but what I have seen, I just don't get it with most of these guys/girls.
> 
> They really didn't realize how valuable it was to be able to get talent in the 80s and 90s like Hogan, Savage, Dibiase, Hennig, Austin, Foley, Nash, Hall, Taker, etc... that had been through multiple territories and had to learn from the ground up.
> 
> NXT just seems like kids gloves and a Disney presentation where everything is clean and everyone thinks they're a million bucks because 200 people in the PC cheered for them


Great call.

We all notice how the scripted promos and characters have become “Disney” and fake, but the actual in-ring style is equally as fake.

They’re over-polished.

And they all are taught move the same way.

They all stand at the same angle so their body and face is perfectly in line with the main cam.

They all perform their entrance like a robot. Baron Corbin pretends to do a “whatever” hand gesture to someone in the crowd at exactly the same moment in his entrance, every time... even during empty arena matches. 

And HHH’s vision for NXT capitalises on small, Indy talent that simply don’t appeal to the wider audience.

Hardcore marks want small relatable losers. They will cheer lame smaller guys who don’t look special. 

They’re “better wrestlers”


----------



## Cube2

ShadowCounter said:


> LMAO and people were surprised they would drop below 2 million viewers not too long ago. Now it's 1.5 million. How long until it's below a million at this rate? 6 months?


Aug 3rd we can see Raw below 1 million. Lakers are playing at 9pm.


----------



## wwehbk01

This rate AEW will beat raw in ratings 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kishido

Deserved. RAW is boring and women don't draw... But well no one draws on that shit roster


----------



## Kentucky34

Kishido said:


> Deserved. RAW is boring and women don't draw... But well no one draws on that shit roster


How many times?

The roster is not the problem. It is the booking and the economy.


----------



## ElTerrible

When was Styles traded to Smackdown? Just saying.


----------



## RT1981

Ace said:


> Nah, they just suck and are a pushing the younger demo out the door. They do not connect to that demo like a top male star would. Wrestling has been a male space forever, not many guys are going to stick around to watch women wrestle. You could say its fine if they made it up with more women watching but that doesn't seem to be the case, in fact numbers suggest the women also prefer watching the men.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283132551264194561
> Those are shocking figures, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince started pushing back against the womens stuff they're doing.


its too late for him to push back on the women now.they are in too deep now and just going to have to go with it but I will say they should atleast push diffrents ones and quit over exposing the horse women.


----------



## ClintDagger

optikk sucks said:


> WWE are consistently in the top 10 for key demos. They’re not going anywhere. USA and Fox will be happy.
> 
> Now IF WWE reaches AEW levels of key demo, that’s when shit will get worrying. AEW are dirt cheap compared to WWE and Fox/USA would realise that. WWE would have difficulty obtaining the same contract when their current one runs out.


WWE’s demos are terrible and always have been. And I guarantee you NBCU and Fox know that. What each network wanted was a show doing 2.8ishMM in Raw’s case and 3ishMM in SD’s case. They were wanting that raw total viewership to help them with their rights fees. Both can’t be very happy right now although I think USA is probably the happier of the two. They don’t really have other options while Fox certainly should.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ClintDagger said:


> WWE’s demos are terrible and always have been. And I guarantee you NBCU and Fox know that. What each network wanted was a show doing 2.8ishMM in Raw’s case and 3ishMM in SD’s case. They were wanting that raw total viewership to help them with their rights fees. Both can’t be very happy right now although I think USA is probably the happier of the two. They don’t really have other options while Fox certainly should.


you know, i thought fox/usa would be unhappy as well. and then i saw some statistics and things on twitter.




















The key demo is what advertisers pay for. Fox is very happy. Reductions in expenditure and an increase in the key demos? 

it costs fox $2 million per hour for sd. It would cost them $5 million per hour for two dramas. And for what? an increase in ~500k people but a decrease in the key demo?


----------



## MyronGainsBrah

Would would actually move the needle now though? Should Vince throw a bucket load of money at CM Punk? Would that even jump the ratings??


----------



## DaSlacker

optikk sucks said:


> you know, i thought fox/usa would be unhappy as well. and then i saw some statistics and things on twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key demo is what advertisers pay for. Fox is very happy. Reductions in expenditure and an increase in the key demos?
> 
> it costs fox $2 million per hour for sd. It would cost them $5 million per hour for two dramas. And for what? an increase in ~500k people but a decrease in the key demo?


Currently they are more valuable than people realise. But it was always going to be long term problem - WWE are on a constant downward trajectory. Plus FOX are famous for being cancel happy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DaSlacker said:


> Currently they are more valuable than people realise. But it was always going to be long term problem - WWE are on a constant downward trajectory. Plus FOX are famous for being cancel happy.


That’s definitely the concern. I do believe that the WWE won’t get these massive contracts in 2023/4 - Coronavirus-driven recession, WWEs alternatives being better value for money, and like you said the downward trend. 

I really really hope I’m wrong. But I’m feeling it coming.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

optikk sucks said:


> you know, i thought fox/usa would be unhappy as well. and then i saw some statistics and things on twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key demo is what advertisers pay for. Fox is very happy. Reductions in expenditure and an increase in the key demos?
> 
> it costs fox $2 million per hour for sd. It would cost them $5 million per hour for two dramas. And for what? an increase in ~500k people but a decrease in the key demo?


Is there a month-by-month breakdown of the demos, or is there only the January-June average?

I ask because I'm interested to see if there's a noticeable difference in the year-on-year comparisons in the months pre-lockdown and post-lockdown. Perhaps there were gains in the demo this year because people were at home this year on a Friday night rather than at a bar/party etc?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> Is there a month-by-month breakdown of the demos, or is there only the January-June average?
> 
> I ask because I'm interested to see if there's a noticeable difference in the year-on-year comparisons in the months pre-lockdown and post-lockdown. Perhaps there were gains in the demo this year because people were at home this year on a Friday night rather than at a bar/party etc?


Have a look at @wrestlenomics on Twitter. 

In fact, everyone here should be following them.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> A lot of adults turned off once Seth was demoted in February.
> 
> Messing up Seth's push is the biggest mistake WWE has had in decades.


I'm okay with Seth's heel turn, but how it has been executed over the last seven months is largely nonsensical. And he's surrounded himself with CAWs that by definition, make him less intriguing.


----------



## Ace

@*BOSS of Bel-Air *not showing his face in here. #TheDraw set a record after being advertised lmfao.

Where you @ home boy?


----------



## Seafort

optikk sucks said:


> That’s definitely the concern. I do believe that the WWE won’t get these massive contracts in 2023/4 - Coronavirus-driven recession, WWEs alternatives being better value for money, and like you said the downward trend.
> 
> I really really hope I’m wrong. But I’m feeling it coming.


What's coming is a buy-out of the WWE by Disney (likely) or perhaps Amazon. It would be a nice pickup in the streaming wars. Why pay $300M for four years of WWE when you can buy the entire thing for four times that amount and never have to pay a content fee again?

It will be interesting to see what another owner would do with some of the WWE properties. I might imagine that the Performance Center would be shut down, and Levesque's seeming goal of recreating the National Wrestling Alliance of the 1970s with NXT territories in the US, Latin America, UK, Europa, China, and Japan being parred back. I'd imagine that a lot of the classic content would go away for good. You can already see the Network doing this now. While not putting existing classic content into storage, they are being very, very slow now about adding anything new from the 1980s or 1990s to the Network.


----------



## Randy Lahey

optikk sucks said:


> you know, i thought fox/usa would be unhappy as well. and then i saw some statistics and things on twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key demo is what advertisers pay for. Fox is very happy. Reductions in expenditure and an increase in the key demos?
> 
> it costs fox $2 million per hour for sd. It would cost them $5 million per hour for two dramas. And for what? an increase in ~500k people but a decrease in the key demo?


Whoever put the theoretical cost for the other shows doesn’t understand TV. Fox is paying way more for Smackdown (since it’s a live show with gigantic production cost) vs any other show.

Fox could put on a 2 hour block of Last Man Standing reruns and absolutely destroy Smackdown.


----------



## Randy Lahey

MyronGainsBrah said:


> Would would actually move the needle now though? Should Vince throw a bucket load of money at CM Punk? Would that even jump the ratings??


Nobody watched the show CM Punk was on that Fox already cancelled


----------



## Randy Lahey

optikk sucks said:


> WWE are consistently in the top 10 for key demos. They’re not going anywhere. USA and Fox will be happy.


If that were true, WCW would have never been cancelled by Turner, and TNA never cancelled by Spike. 

The bottom line is that WWE signed their extension when they averaged 3mil viewers. They are now at 1.5 mils. You think USA is happy about that? Their demo is down 40% since last year. “Top 10” in demo means nothing when there’s literally like 5 channels on Cable that anyone even watches.

I mean look at the Demo. 90 day Fiancé, a show on The Learning Channel, has a 0.88 demo. Raw did a 0.48. How much you think TLC is paying to produce a low rent reality show?

These ratings are so bad that what is going to happen is that channels will start copying the success of others. And if news and reality TV is what brings ratings (at extremely low cost compared to sport right fees like WWE), that is what will be produced.

I expect Fox to cancel Smackdown and put reality TV (or shows like American Idol, Masked Singer, The Voice) in that spot. USA eventually will do the same thing. 

You WWE marks better budget for The Network because eventually it’s going to be the only place to watch wrestling.


----------



## DaSlacker

A lot of good points made here. Too many to reply to individually.

What's fascinating me is that they are doing nothing to stop the rot. Fair enough, it's difficult without fans. But when times were hard or worrying they'd bring back big guns or change the format or protect the roster. Maybe even a big marketing campaign. Nope.

90% of the wrestlers under 35 are jobbed out on weekly television and rendered meaningless. Most of the present hot NXT stars will meet the same fate. There's a lack of star power yet the brand split remains. Still the same badly acted fake promos and archaic comedy and invisible camera. Raw and Smackdown indistinguishable.

Almost surreal to watch them drive nonchalantly towards the edge of a cliff.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Randy Lahey said:


> Whoever put the theoretical cost for the other shows doesn’t understand TV. Fox is paying way more for Smackdown (since it’s a live show with gigantic production cost) vs any other show.
> 
> Fox could put on a 2 hour block of Last Man Standing reruns and absolutely destroy Smackdown.


what's your source? wrestlenomics are very reliable when it comes to this stuff; they are consultants for analysts, investors etc.

Remember that those theoretical shows include the costs of the actors, producers etc. WWE pay for that. It's general knowledge that WWE is cheaper for networks because of these reasons.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Randy Lahey said:


> If that were true, WCW would have never been cancelled by Turner, and TNA never cancelled by Spike.
> 
> The bottom line is that WWE signed their extension when they averaged 3mil viewers. They are now at 1.5 mils. You think USA is happy about that? Their demo is down 40% since last year. “Top 10” in demo means nothing when there’s literally like 5 channels on Cable that anyone even watches.
> 
> I mean look at the Demo. 90 day Fiancé, a show on The Learning Channel, has a 0.88 demo. Raw did a 0.48. How much you think TLC is paying to produce a low rent reality show?
> 
> These ratings are so bad that what is going to happen is that channels will start copying the success of others. And if news and reality TV is what brings ratings (at extremely low cost compared to sport right fees like WWE), that is what will be produced.
> 
> I expect Fox to cancel Smackdown and put reality TV (or shows like American Idol, Masked Singer, The Voice) in that spot. USA eventually will do the same thing.
> 
> You WWE marks better budget for The Network because eventually it’s going to be the only place to watch wrestling.


TNA was cancelled by Spike because TNA re-hired Vince Russo behind Spike TV's back.

The shift towards key demo was implemented back in 2002 - way after WCW's cancellation.


----------



## ClintDagger

optikk sucks said:


> you know, i thought fox/usa would be unhappy as well. and then i saw some statistics and things on twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key demo is what advertisers pay for. Fox is very happy. Reductions in expenditure and an increase in the key demos?
> 
> it costs fox $2 million per hour for sd. It would cost them $5 million per hour for two dramas. And for what? an increase in ~500k people but a decrease in the key demo?


Key demo is not what advertisers pay for. That’s a myth that people unfamiliar with advertising regurgitate.

Also your comparison doesn’t take into account the ROI. That’s what matters.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ClintDagger said:


> Key demo is not what advertisers pay for. That’s a myth that people unfamiliar with advertising regurgitate.
> 
> Also your comparison doesn’t take into account the ROI. That’s what matters.








The Most Desirable Demo


One of the biggest cable stories of last year was Lifetime Television's ascent to the top of Nielsen Media Research's basic-network primetime household ratings. But to hear many cable-network executives tell it, the female-targeted network's impressive achievement wasn't nearly as important as...




www.multichannel.com




With cable-network penetration now pushing toward 90 percent of all U.S. television households, the weight placed on absolute household eyeballs during the 1980s and 1990s has given way to a more narrowly defined, demographic-oriented focus. Networks now try to convince advertisers that they're reaching viewers that can draw premium CPMs (costs per thousand), and no demographic is more desirable than 18-to-49-year-old adults.









TV Ratings and What They Mean - Central Casting


How do networks decide what shows to keep and what to cancel? Here’s what you need to know about TV ratings and how they’re used.




www.centralcasting.com




Adults ages 18-49 are known as the key demographic because advertisers believe they have the most disposable income and least brand loyalty, which may make them more susceptible to advertising.









Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …




wrestlenomics.com






Showbuzz post their league tables as key demo and there's a reason why. otherwise why would they? Why is the #1 rated show on Wednesdays doing <1million in total viewers?


----------



## ClintDagger

optikk sucks said:


> The Most Desirable Demo
> 
> 
> One of the biggest cable stories of last year was Lifetime Television's ascent to the top of Nielsen Media Research's basic-network primetime household ratings. But to hear many cable-network executives tell it, the female-targeted network's impressive achievement wasn't nearly as important as...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.multichannel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With cable-network penetration now pushing toward 90 percent of all U.S. television households, the weight placed on absolute household eyeballs during the 1980s and 1990s has given way to a more narrowly defined, demographic-oriented focus. Networks now try to convince advertisers that they're reaching viewers that can draw premium CPMs (costs per thousand), and no demographic is more desirable than 18-to-49-year-old adults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TV Ratings and What They Mean - Central Casting
> 
> 
> How do networks decide what shows to keep and what to cancel? Here’s what you need to know about TV ratings and how they’re used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.centralcasting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adults ages 18-49 are known as the key demographic because advertisers believe they have the most disposable income and least brand loyalty, which may make them more susceptible to advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlenomics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showbuzz post their league tables as key demo and there's a reason why. otherwise why would they? Why is the #1 rated show on Wednesdays doing <1million in total viewers?


The age demo gets posted because it’s the quickest statistic that can be turned around. It also helps because the shows that are number one in the raw totals aren’t exactly everyone’s favorites to tout.

But advertisers look at the breakdowns with much more granularity. Income and education level is much more important than just the pure age demo. Wrestling’s demos are very low on the income and education scales which is why the advertisers WWE gets are daytime tv type advertisers like insurance, fast food, candy, soft drinks, etcetera. For people not familiar with the business of tv advertising you know you have great demos when you get auto manufacturers particularly luxury manufacturers advertising.

USA hasn’t been so loyal to WWE because of their age demo. What WWE has brought to USA is the total viewership which keeps them in the upper echelon of most watched cable networks. That helps immensely when their parent company negotiates rights fees with providers.


----------



## wwehbk01

Be interesting to see if the ratings drop on raw after eye for eye match at extreme rules 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ClintDagger said:


> The age demo gets posted because it’s the quickest statistic that can be turned around. It also helps because the shows that are number one in the raw totals aren’t exactly everyone’s favorites to tout.
> 
> But advertisers look at the breakdowns with much more granularity. Income and education level is much more important than just the pure age demo. Wrestling’s demos are very low on the income and education scales which is why the advertisers WWE gets are daytime tv type advertisers like insurance, fast food, candy, soft drinks, etcetera. For people not familiar with the business of tv advertising you know you have great demos when you get auto manufacturers particularly luxury manufacturers advertising.
> 
> USA hasn’t been so loyal to WWE because of their age demo. What WWE has brought to USA is the total viewership which keeps them in the upper echelon of most watched cable networks. That helps immensely when their parent company negotiates rights fees with providers.


Thanks for this. It provides a lot of clarity. Not everyday that you learn from WF lol


----------



## Joe Gill

another thing to factor in is owership rights.. once a smackdown episode airs on fox the wwe owns the residual rights...it will end up on its own network. If Fox produces its own shows it gets all the residual income from repeats and streaming rights/ dvd sales. With covid Fox is hit with a double whammy.... not only are ratings declining but on top of that advertising budgets for companies are decreasing since business is down.....meanwhile the costs are fixed. There is a giant TV bubble that is about to burst.


----------



## ManiaSeason2017

It will be insane when RAW ends up doing NXT/AEW numbers.


----------



## zkorejo

WWE staying true to its promise of extracting eyeballs from the show. What a Horror Show.


----------



## Not Lying

It's all so entertaining to blame the women's tag match main event which had a pretty good retention rate for a 3rd hour, and forget that Ziggler/Dolph, Seth/Rey, and Orton/Show are all on-going stories on the show that should lift the h1 and h2.


----------



## Chan Hung

Raw numbers are sinking badly!! WOW WTF


----------



## La Parka

Extreme Rules horror show looks awful.

I'm not sure theres a single match on the card that isn't predicable and or meaningless. It doesn't surprise me that no one is tuning into Raw. Ziggler is the furthest thing from a main eventer and no one on this planet thinks he'll beat Drew.


----------



## Rozzop

Most of the roster is stone cold dead. 

I don't mind Ziggler but how long has he been there? How many times has he looked like a geek? He is cold.

Everyone is cold.

Who is hot? Orton maybe. Edge possibly. 

Mcintyre? Cold
Rollins? Cold
Mysterio? Cold
Black? Cold
Ricochet? lmao has he ever been hot? 
Asuka? Cold
Bayley? Cold

Replace cold with the word boring and you got the current state of wwe. And the best thing is they know most of their roster is cold/boring/not over and they don't give a crap.


----------



## SPCDRI

A lot of WWE's roster is old, stale or both.
Look at all the guys they've got on this Extreme Rules PPV that have wrestled 10 years or more with WWE, 
are 40 or older, or are both. That's a huge reason for WWE numbers being in the toilet. The rosters are jam packed with old people and deathly stale.


----------



## nikkinemo95

If the trend continues then it lends more credence to last year being a downblip.

It's unfortunate that this will give the Lana/Lashley/Rusev angle ammunition in its favour (while also disregarding the previous 3 months of the storyline when RAW was tanking)


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.740M [17th] | 0.510D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.609M [19th] | 0.450D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.535M [21st] | 0.420D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.628M | 0.460D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.131M | - 7.53% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 11.76% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.074M | - 4.60% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 6.67% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.205M | - 11.78% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 17.65% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.067M | + 4.29% ]
[ - 0.023D | - 4.76% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 1.465M | - 47.37% ]
[ - 0.677D | - 59.54% ]*


----------



## DaSlacker

Orton vs Show brought in the viewers then lol


----------



## kazarn

Awful rating considering they promoted Orton/Show and it was the fallout from Extreme Rules. Just terrible.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth delivered in the first hour.


----------



## Ace

No one wanted to see Big Show 10 years ago, no one wants to see him now. He has had go away heat with me since day one. Nothing interesting about the guy at all.


----------



## Joe Moore

DaSlacker said:


> Orton vs Show brought in the viewers then lol


Yes, they did. They brought them to another channel.

From Meltzer:



> Orton vs Show did a 0.42 18-49 in Q3. That is staggeringly bad when put into perspective. Worst quarter performance in 27+ year history of the show for a bout promoted for weeks.


----------



## The XL 2

Another shit rating. Orton vs Big Show is their trump card in 2020? Lmao, that match wouldn't have drawn in 2005 and those guys are 15 years older and more stale at this point.


----------



## ClintDagger

People are hung up on H3 and I get that, but H1 not even sniffing 2MM coming out of a PPV with a cliffhanger set up to have people tune in is just as bad as Show / Orton.


----------



## RT1981

so much for Randy orton being a draw.the demo went down with him main eventing.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw lost 60% of their demo....in a single year.

Do you know how hard that is to do? I’d love to know the shows that have done that and not gotten cancelled.


----------



## RT1981

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw lost 60% of their demo....in a single year.
> 
> Do you know how hard that is to do? I’d love to know the shows that have done that and not gotten cancelled.


pushing geeks like Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch will do that.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I believe this is the last Raw that will run unopposed to other live sports.

Next week baseball is back, and in 2 weeks both the NBA/MLB will be on Monday nights.

It’s about to get worse.


----------



## kazarn

This show drew 4+ million, 6 years later we are at 1.5 million. Oh well, looks like they did stop watching.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> pushing geeks like Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch will do that.


Wrong.

Seth has been drawing best all year especially the past month. 

The masses turned off the past year because they took the belt off Seth.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> I believe this is the last Raw that will run unopposed to other live sports.
> 
> Next week baseball is back, and in 2 weeks both the NBA/MLB will be on Monday nights.
> 
> It’s about to get worse.


I swear the best thing they could do at this stage is run a WWE Olympics featuring the entire roster. Rent out a stadium and arena and run lots of competitive sports activities lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> pushing geeks like Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch will do that.


Don’t be an ignorant geek 

Neither of them are even in the main-event atm, and the ratings are still terrible. Think twice before saying laughable crap like this, or even being naive enough to blame the individual talents (like Randy Orton) for “tanking” the ratings.


----------



## MoxAsylum

RAW is garbage


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Seth has been drawing best all year especially the past month.
> 
> The masses turned off the past year because they took the belt off Seth.


he was a geek last year doing his whole face run that what i mean.he has been on fire since he turned heel and the best thing on raw these days.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> he was a geek last year doing his whole face run that what i mean.he has been on fire since he turned heel and the best thing on raw these days.


And the numbers didn't go down by that much. 

He is still performing better than anyone else as a mid carder. 

Seth draws. Deal with it.


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> And the numbers didn't go down by that much.
> 
> He is still performing better than anyone else as a mid carder.
> 
> Seth draws. Deal with it.


I just said he was the best part of raw these days learn to read slapnuts.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> I just said he was the best part of raw these days learn to read slapnuts.


You also claimed he is responsible for the declining ratings. 

He isn't.

He has been the biggest draw in WWE since 2015 and he is the only performer drawing numbers now.


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> You also claimed he is responsible for the declining ratings.
> 
> He isn't.
> 
> He has been the biggest draw in WWE since 2015 and he is the only performer drawing numbers now.


He was responsible for the low ratings last year his face run was terrible and he became Becky's Bitch which killed him.luckly he turned heel and has gotten back on track.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> He was responsible for the low ratings last year his face run was terrible and he became Becky's Bitch which killed him.luckly he turned heel and has gotten back on track.


No that was the booking and he drew really well anyway. 

Look at the ratings since they stopped pushing him.


----------



## Hephaesteus

So no woman advertised and wwe still cant pop decent ratings. Hmmm...


----------



## Randy Lahey

Hephaesteus said:


> So no woman advertised and wwe still cant pop decent ratings. Hmmm...


The women's revolution already drove everyone off. Those people that left aren't coming back


----------



## Hephaesteus

Randy Lahey said:


> The women's revolution already drove everyone off. Those people that left aren't coming back










I knew that someone would find a way to blame those stupid womyn for ratings. Good job


----------



## Randy Lahey

I really think the primary reason for WWE's decline is that UFC has taken over what they used to be about. Bad ass alpha males cutting promos on each other, larger than life characters, scantily clad women at ringside, and violence in the ring. WWE used to be about those things when they were mega popular. But now, UFC is. And with UFC, it's actual real fighting. 

I think the WWE is now catering to people who enjoy pure and only wrestling (both men and women). And there's just not enough of those people to pop ratings. Not many people are going to want to watch Seth Rollins wrestle Aj Styles, no matter how good of pure wrestlers they are, because pure wrestling has never sold.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Clearly this is Roman Reigns & Becky Lynch’s fault.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Randy Lahey said:


> I really think the primary reason for WWE's decline is that UFC has taken over what they used to be about. Bad ass alpha males cutting promos on each other, larger than life characters, scantily clad women at ringside, and violence in the ring. WWE used to be about those things when they were mega popular. But now, UFC is. And with UFC, it's actual real fighting.
> 
> I think the WWE is now catering to people who enjoy pure and only wrestling (both men and women). And there's just not enough of those people to pop ratings. Not many people are going to want to watch Seth Rollins wrestle Aj Styles, no matter how good of pure wrestlers they are, because pure wrestling has never sold.


That's a very fair point. I'd also argue that the quality of writing has gone down by a lot, and wwe leaned too heavily on past personalities to pop a rating to even bother building anybody up for this era and you have the perfect storm.


----------



## Seafort

WWE needs a complete reset...and I mean a complete creative reset on how they present and build characters. There are minimal characters these days, and the ones that they have possess no depth whatsoever. What is the character of "Murphy"? Why did he join Rollins? Or "Theory"? Why is he aligned with Rollins? 

Honestly, WWE views its audience not with the laurels that they publicly say; rather it is with contempt. The audience is viewed as willing to accept anything that is given to them. There is no effort to change, no effort to go beyond the bare basics of what worked ten or fifteen years ago. *Every other dramatic show* has evolved since WWE's Golden Age. WWE has almost devolved from its presentation of the late 80s. 

So let's take Seth Rollins, who some say is the cornerstone of the show. That's fine to think that...but *who is Seth Rollins*? Why is he the way he is now? What drives him now? Do we know clearly that it was the fact that he failed as a babyface leader that has caused his downfall? What of his relationship to Becky Lynch? Has she disowned the person who tried to maim Rey Mysterio...and is that driving his descent further? What of his alliance with Murphy and Theory...how is he motivating them? Are they simply followers, or are they cynical opportunists who have latched onto a fading WrestleMania main eventer who is collapsing before our eyes? How much further will Rollins descend? And is there a path to redemption for Rollins? WWE Creative and the producers should be asking *and answering* these very questions, and insist that with him and each other character presented onscreen be given clear motivations and firm, distinguishing characteristics. And when I say insist, take a stand against the man who actually respects people who are not yes-people, and insist and drive home that such creative failures while earning record profits is not a sign of success, but a lagging indicator to the eventual collapse of the company.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

Time to throw in the towel. Its apparently broken, now go fix it.


----------



## postmoderno

The interesting aspect of these ratings is Vince's alleged non response to them. If he doesn't see it as an indicator of a problem, but instead a temporary situation that will fix itself. . .well, that seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm quite sure that is not the case, viewership is bleeding because of myriad problems with the product, and it will be too late to fix the damage by the time it is seen for what it is.

I guess we'll see how things play out, but it should be an interesting year or two, one way or another.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Quite simply, WWE doesn't feel they have to work hard enough to earn people's money anymore. They think all they need to do is put out ANY product and it should be enough to get people to stay with them. There's just too many other options to stick with something that is putting out a substantially poor product


----------



## DaSlacker

postmoderno said:


> The interesting aspect of these ratings is Vince's alleged non response to them. If he doesn't see it as an indicator of a problem, but instead a temporary situation that will fix itself. . .well, that seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm quite sure that is not the case, viewership is bleeding because of myriad problems with the product, and it will be too late to fix the damage by the time it is seen for what it is.
> 
> I guess we'll see how things play out, but it should be an interesting year or two, one way or another.


There will be a breaking point sooner rather than later. The demo and viewership is collapsing at an incredible rate. Vince might blame it on covid and several stars being away, but you just know that 1.5 number is the new norm. If the network paid subs are down again when Netflix and others are up. Investors will start to question the long term viability of WWE.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

First let me say this after a PPV they barely gained any viewers and their demo tied the lowest ever back in May. There are a lot of reasons why these ratings have tanked.

1) Roman Reigns ~ Think about it this is the guy they pushed no matter what and the only thing that cooled him off in Vince's eyes was his suspension and his sickness. I think bigger picture here with Roman so many were fed up with the Cena push and when they were going a similar route with a lesser talented performer and even a harder push out of the box. It goes deeper than that though so after many fans left and when he is gone they made 2 guys who like Strowman and Drew world champions. One who failed at getting the title so many times and the other never even had a title shot. The biggest point is WWE made everyone else so inferior to Roman (and Brock) that now both are gone and there are no stars. It is not so much just Roman it is that so many were not pushed or were cooled off for Roman and honestly that is Vince & Co's fault.

2) Brock Lesnar ~ Having him have a World Title for so much time and usually after he loses it he goes away until he can come back and take a title back. I don't blame Brock or Paul Heyman this is Vince's fault. He loves an old toy and goes back to him time and time again. The thing is and I remember Daniel Bryan prior to his comeback in early 2015 talked some shit on commentary that he gave up a title and how Brock has defended it all of 1 time since he won it at Summerslam. Him taking off with the title makes you almost forget there is champion or at least makes many forget that.

3) Seth Rollins ~ In 2015 he cashed in MITB at WM31. It was a cool moment. Granted it may have over-rated an entire Wrestlemania and a main event because of its history making. The next thing they did was criminal to Seth they cut his balls off. After a great performance at RR 2015 with Cena and Brock and he was winning matches "dirty" but it was underhanded. Then they took away the curbstomp which was to me Rollin's entire identity. They had him do HHH's Pedigree and other than a few times it was pretty bad. Then he was using Kenny Omega's V-Trigger which was well nowhere near the level of Kenny. Then they had him lose every damn match on TV and only win or at least retain his title at the PPV. It was laughable. Ratings were tumbling and Seth Rollin's title reign did cause that but truly looking at it this wasn't the Seth Rollins of 2014-early 2015 this was Seth playing HHH's lackey. I mean they did it with Orton prior and it was hard to watch. Anyways Rollins gets hurt and when he comes back he attacks Reigns to a huge pop and they run a documentary on Rollins. This screams face turn but no they double down the next night on his heel persona and it just kills everything. He wins and loses the title in the same night and we have a Shield feud. Ambrose takes the title from him and leaves the triple threat with the title and heads to SD Live. Rollins now a titleless heel falls short at getting the newly minted Universal Title but his opponent who beat him, Finn Balor has to give up the title. This is where the shit really makes little sense. HHH interferes in 4 way pedigrees Reigns and seemingly is there to help his protege Rollins win but no it is a swerve and he takes out Rollins and allows Kevin Owens to win. Rollins without a single character change is a face and is going after Owen's. Rollin's is a unexplained babyface because HHH turned on him. His reaction is lukewarm and let's be honest why wouldn't he be. Finally 8 months after the attack Rollins faces HHH at Mania. Dumb. Rollins at least now is a face and is beginning to get better reactions then they start with the spam Shield reunions. I mean they had Rollins & Reigns together and Ambrose & Reigns but now they start this and it seemingly is just a tool to get Roman better reactions but it hurts both Rollins and Ambrose everytime. He opens the following Mania with an excellent Triple Threat with Balor and Miz and had been putting up great performances up to that and after this. Ambrose returns from injury and we go back to the same old Shield Reunion. Roman announces sickness and AmbRollins win the tag belts then Ambrose turns on Seth and destroys him. A heel Ambrose was something most ppl wanted to see but what followed hurt both guys. We didn't want to boo Ambrose against Rollins the dynamic IMO just wasn't the same. Then the shitty promos and now the crowd shit on both guys. Rollins who had been getting solid reactions since early 2018 now saw reactions dying off and to be fair the never ending Dolph feud began that too. Rollins goes on to win The Rumble. The build with Brock was not great and factor in his injury too and it was just not good. He took the title and then was 2nd fiddle to his then GF Becky on screen. This is where his face reactions truly took the final hit and being paired against Corbin againa and again did no favors as well. Then he shittalks his "brother" Ambrose and talks bank accounts with Will Ospreay and frankly it turned me off of him altogether. He goes over Brock again but I recall the go home show for Summerslam with Brock decimating him and the crowd sat of their hands and then there was the awful Hell In a Cell Match with The Fiend. They finally turn him heel and they pair him with bland guys as a whole (Murphy is a solid hand but that is about it) and it too much parallels CM Punk's culty SES and Rollins is just not anywhere near Punk on the mic.

4) The Women ~ I don't mind women's wrestling but I don't want to see it in the Main Event all the time. Charlotte was put over when it made no sense: WM 32, WM34, included in the Women's WM ME. They dicked over Asuka and Sasha multiple times each for Charlotte. Ronda's debut match was excellent then they put her with Nia Jax and then give her the title right away. Even when they went with Becky at WM she had cooled off some and then she was paired with Seth and faced off with Lacey too many times. 

5) Bland roster ~ They haven't built up people properly and only seemingly go with people only after others have been injured or left. 

*** I could number this to death it is WWE as a machine. The scripted promos, pushing the wrong people, bad commentary, and so on. The blame belongs squarely on Vince and to a lesser degree HHH and Steph.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

So baseball will be back next week, yes? This will be the first test at how ratings hold with sports returning


----------



## Prosper

1.6 lol, what are they gonna do when live sports come back?


----------



## Ace

Randy Lahey said:


> I believe this is the last Raw that will run unopposed to other live sports.
> 
> Next week baseball is back, and in 2 weeks both the NBA/MLB will be on Monday nights.
> 
> It’s about to get worse.


----------



## .christopher.

kazarn said:


> This show drew 4+ million, 6 years later we are at 1.5 million. Oh well, looks like they did stop watching.


Was looking for this myself.

It was a dumb mindset then, and I'm glad it's coming back to bite them in the arse.

They actually thought they could get away with pushing trash like Reigns, Rollins, the women. People weren't going to accept it after a decade plus of already being force fed John Cena. That's what the whole Daniel Bryan thing was about.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Was looking for this myself.
> 
> It was a dumb mindset then, and I'm glad it's coming back to bite them in the arse.
> 
> They actually thought they could get away with *pushing trash* like Reigns, *Rollins, the women*. People weren't going to accept it after a decade plus of already being force fed John Cena. That's what the whole Daniel Bryan thing was about.


Nah, Seth Rollins and the women aren't trash though. There's actually nothing wrong with pushing good talents like them.

What's TRULY trash though is the creative mindset of an inept billionaire over the past several years.



MoxAsylum said:


> *Nobody wants to watch geeks like Rollins, Ali, Andrade,* etc. Also nobody wants to watch a Big Show match in 2020


Wrestling fans would like to see them. Fellow geeks like yourself will falsely blame them though.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Nobody wants to watch geeks like Rollins, Ali, Andrade, etc. Also nobody wants to watch a Big Show match in 2020


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285670132732301313
LOLLLLLLLLL. Lowest QH in raws 27 year history!!!! BIG GUYS DRAW THOUGH. Enjoy that one to the supposed know it all’s who have been preaching that for years on here.


----------



## Randy Lahey

DammitChrist said:


> Wrestling fans would like to see them.


I’m sure they would. There just aren’t enough “wrestling fans” in the world to have a sustainable show. Pure wrestling has never sold. If Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, and Dean Malenko in their primes replaced today’s guys in WWE, the show would still get bad ratings.

Casual fans far outnumber wrestling fans. And if you can’t draw in casuals, you ultimately have no business.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Randy Lahey said:


> I really think the primary reason for WWE's decline is that UFC has taken over what they used to be about. Bad ass alpha males cutting promos on each other, larger than life characters, scantily clad women at ringside, and violence in the ring. WWE used to be about those things when they were mega popular. But now, UFC is. And with UFC, it's actual real fighting.
> 
> I think the WWE is now catering to people who enjoy pure and only wrestling (both men and women). And there's just not enough of those people to pop ratings. Not many people are going to want to watch Seth Rollins wrestle Aj Styles, no matter how good of pure wrestlers they are, because pure wrestling has never sold.


UFC has played a massive part in WWE’s decline, that’s indisputable.


----------



## Rozzop

Where to start.... 

Unlikeable roster. How many characters are written like they have a mental disability? I can't watch it. I feel like i lose several brain cells while watching. I get they are targeting kids and families but how many adults want to watch the likes of Otis, Bray, Braun, Asuka, Nikki, Bayley, R Truth, New Day, the list goes on and on. Just unlikeable characters written as poor low IQ doofs. 

It really is the worst roster WWE has ever had. 

I can't see how they can continue being on a national tv channel if this continues.


----------



## Not Lying

Clearly Becky leaving had an effect on ratings, almost 200k stopped watching since their biggest star left


----------



## Y2K23

For the people that still somehow sit through hours of live WWE programming each week, you sure deserve a gold medal for tolerating the sheer torture that comes by watching this s*hitshow on a daily basis.


Its impossible.


----------



## DaSlacker

Rozzop said:


> Where to start....
> 
> Unlikeable roster. How many characters are written like they have a mental disability? I can't watch it. I feel like i lose several brain cells while watching. I get they are targeting kids and families but how many adults want to watch the likes of Otis, Bray, Braun, Asuka, Nikki, Bayley, R Truth, New Day, the list goes on and on. Just unlikeable characters written as poor low IQ doofs.
> 
> It really is the worst roster WWE has ever had.
> 
> I can't see how they can continue being on a national tv channel if this continues.


The McMahons have a tendency to package wrestlers into one dimensional caricatures. Goes back to how he booked Jim Duggan, Dusty Rhodes and Sgt Slaughter. But back then he protected them or tried to make them stars for the wider audience, and produced shorter shows. Modern day WWE is an old one hour syndicated episode stretched out to 5 hours per week. 

They are completely out of touch.


----------



## ClintDagger

RT1981 said:


> so much for Randy orton being a draw.the demo went down with him main eventing.


Orton wasn’t a draw. The dynamic with him and Edge was to an extent. You remove that and all you have is the same Orton nobody has really cared about... well ever.


postmoderno said:


> The interesting aspect of these ratings is Vince's alleged non response to them. If he doesn't see it as an indicator of a problem, but instead a temporary situation that will fix itself. . .well, that seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm quite sure that is not the case, viewership is bleeding because of myriad problems with the product, and it will be too late to fix the damage by the time it is seen for what it is.
> 
> I guess we'll see how things play out, but it should be an interesting year or two, one way or another.


I think Vince is panicked about the ratings which is why Eric and Paul have already been scapegoats. The problem isn’t the heads of creative, it’s the lack of talent and the framework Vince has created. One can’t be fixed and the other will just get ignored.


Showstopper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285670132732301313
> LOLLLLLLLLL. Lowest QH in raws 27 year history!!!! BIG GUYS DRAW THOUGH. Enjoy that one to the supposed know it all’s who have been preaching that for years on here.


I think people get too caught up in big vs small guys. Austin wasn’t a huge guy. Billed at 250, probably actually legit 230 or so when fit. It’s much more about looking like an ass kicker and seeming like a legit threat combined with the ability to talk. Everyone on the roster is missing one or both of those characteristics to be at the highest rung.


----------



## SPCDRI

Well, these RAWs this spring and summer were against no sports competition due to coronavirus postponing the leagues and these sports usually having concluded their seasons by now. But sports are starting up at the end of July, and starting Monday, August 3, 2020, they come back with a vengeance with a monster noon-to-midnight programming schedule for 3 major sports leagues putting on 22 games.

August 3, 2020 sports slate has sports running from basically noon to midnight for hockey, baseball and basketball.
Here's the schedule

*HOCKEY*
New York Rangers-Carolina Hurricanes-11:00 AM
Winnipeg Jets-Calgary Flames-1:30 PM
Washington Capitals-Tampa Bay Lightning-3:00 PM
Dallas Stars-Las Vegas Golden Knights-5:30 PM
Montreal Canadiens-Pittsburgh Penguins-7:00 PM
Chicago Blackhawks-Edmonton Oilers-9:30 PM

*BASEBALL*
Cleveland Indians-Cincinnati Reds-5:40 PM
St. Louis Cardinals-Detroit Tigers-6:10 PM
New York Mets-Atlanta Braves-6:10 PM
New York Yankees-Baltimore Orioles-6:35 PM
Chicago White Sox-Milwaukee Brewers-7:10 PM
Pittsburgh Pirates-Minnesota Twins-7:10 PM
Kansas City Royals-Chicago Cubs-7:15 PM
San Francisco Giants-Colorado Rockies-7:40 PM
Los Angeles Dodgers-San Diego Padres-8:10 PM
Oakland Athletics-Seattle Mariners-8:10 PM

*BASKETBALL*
Toronto Raptors-Miami Heat-12:30 PM
Indiana Pacers-Washington Wizards-3:00 PM
Denver Nuggets-Oklahoma City Thunder-3:00 PM
Memphis Grizzlies-New Orleans Pelicans-5:30 PM
San Antonio Spurs-Philadelphia 76ers-7:00 PM
LA Lakers-Utah Jazz-8:00 PM

Now, many of these games are not against RAW, but it is many, many games to watch, before and during RAW.
Of hockey, baseball and basketball games that will happen while RAW is happening, its 3 hockey games, 3 basketball games and the entire 10 game baseball slate. That's 16 total games.
They are doing record lows in total viewers and 18-49 demo with no competition this spring and summer. 
How strong do you think 16+ sports games is going to be as competition? I think DAMN STRONG.


----------



## Charzhino

2 hour shows and streamline the roster into one locker room. DO IT, DO IT NOW!!


----------



## ClintDagger

Charzhino said:


> 2 hour shows and streamline the roster into one locker room. DO IT, DO IT NOW!!


They can’t afford that.


----------



## Charzhino

ClintDagger said:


> They can’t afford that.


Short term loss for a potential long term gain. If they continue as is, they're going to have to release a lot of talent to save money on ever diminishing returns. The 3 hour runtime has been steadily pushing away viewers. With sports back next week and the ratings at an all time low, it could push them off the edge.


----------



## postmoderno

Do people still care about baseball?

That league is run about as well as the WWE imo.


----------



## ClintDagger

Charzhino said:


> Short term loss for a potential long term gain. If they continue as is, they're going to have to release a lot of talent to save money on ever diminishing returns. The 3 hour runtime has been steadily pushing away viewers. With sports back next week and the ratings at an all time low, it could push them off the edge.


Short term gain may be all they have left. The 3rd hour of Raw brings in somewhere between $60 and $85 million per year. If they dropped that the shareholders would revolt. Besides they produce 8 ish hours per week of content and dropping 1 hour isn’t going to reduce the strain on the product. They’d have to cut out NXT and SD as well to really notice the difference and not be over saturated. There’s no way they’re cutting back on tv content until the current contracts are done.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

StOp PuShInG MiDgEtS. BiG gUyS DrAw!

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.


----------



## DaSlacker

ClintDagger said:


> Short term gain may be all they have left. The 3rd hour of Raw brings in somewhere between $60 and $85 million per year. If they dropped that the shareholders would revolt. Besides they produce 8 ish hours per week of content and dropping 1 hour isn’t going to reduce the strain on the product. They’d have to cut out NXT and SD as well to really notice the difference and not be over saturated. There’s no way they’re cutting back on tv content until the current contracts are done.


Makes you wonder if WrestleMania 35 was the last time they run a 70,000 stadium and draw a big audience. Whenever normality resumes, there is no guarantee the fans will return...like it was (i.e 4,000-12,000 tickets sold). The audience will be tiny by April 2022.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

Watch when Football returns

We will have 0.5 rating on Raw


----------



## MontyCora

So.

Worst Raw number in history huh?


----------



## Erik.

MontyCora said:


> So.
> 
> Worst Raw number in history huh?


Nope, that was last week wasn't it?


----------



## Lenny Leonard

MontyCora said:


> So.
> 
> Worst Raw number in history huh?


The worst number so far


----------



## MontyCora

Erik. said:


> Nope, that was last week wasn't it?


I just saw an Observer video from a few minutes ago saying lowest.


----------



## Kentucky34

Why is no one mentioning the strong hour 1 number that Seth pulled? 

It was hours 2 and 3 that didn't draw.


----------



## Erik.

Kentucky34 said:


> Why is no one mentioning the strong hour 1 number that Seth pulled?
> 
> It was hours 2 and 3 that didn't draw.


Because no one gives a shit?


----------



## Kentucky34

Erik. said:


> Because no one gives a shit?


Give the man credit.


----------



## postmoderno

Kentucky34 said:


> Why is no one mentioning the strong hour 1 number that Seth pulled?
> 
> It was hours 2 and 3 that didn't draw.


There was a show recently that hour 2 was higher than hour one, but I believe most of the time, hour one is the highest and then it drops from there.


----------



## Kentucky34

postmoderno said:


> There was a show recently that hour 2 was higher than hour one, but I believe most of the time, hour one is the highest and then it drops from there.


Seth was in hour 2 the week it beat hour 1. 

Seth draws.


----------



## DammitChrist

postmoderno said:


> There was a show recently that hour 2 was higher than hour one, but I believe most of the time, hour one is the highest and then it drops from there.


No worries, he’s just a troll who overhypes him to extreme extents.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> No worries, he’s just a troll who overhypes him to extreme extents.


Not a troll. 

Others online have pointed out Seth's success in the ratings this week.


----------



## rexmundi

Still staying above 1.5 million. Some think that the return of sports will devastate the already rapidly declining WWE ratings. I'm not sure how much the typical WWE viewer overlaps with football, baseball etc but we are sure to see in the oncoming weeks. Will a previously unthinkable sub 1.5 million show become reality? If their demo goes below .4 then they will be in a bit of trouble. Their demo drop has been just as steeper, if not stepper than their viewership drop this year.


----------



## InexorableJourney

rexmundi said:


> Still staying above 1.5 million. Some think that the return of sports will devastate the already rapidly declining WWE ratings. I'm not sure how much the typical WWE viewer overlaps with football, baseball etc but we are sure to see in the oncoming weeks. Will a previously unthinkable sub 1.5 million show become reality? If their demo goes below .4 then they will be in a bit of trouble. Their demo drop has been just as steeper, if not stepper than their viewership drop this year.


Doesn't the large influx of new sports viewers push up total viewership and in turn drop the demo for whats left on air.


----------



## postmoderno

Kentucky34 said:


> Seth was in hour 2 the week it beat hour 1.
> 
> Seth draws.


Yep, no other possible explanation than that!


----------



## Not Lying

It's kind of bad how Big Show/Orton drew the lowest number. Not the tag-team shit we've seen a million times, or "the women"..but Randy Orton who was the hottest star a few weeks ago and Big Show, nothing against these guys but jeez.. no lapsed fans for you.


----------



## Kentucky34

postmoderno said:


> Yep, no other possible explanation than that!


Exactly.


----------



## Rozzop

Did I hear that right? 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range in the whole of the US? 6000?

Also in the UK where I am, something like 12000 for Raw and 16000 for Smackdown? But thats overall viewers? 

Does anybody have a comparison of other TV shows and the demos? 

I refuse to believe in the whole of the US, 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range tuned in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rozzop said:


> Did I hear that right? 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range in the whole of the US? 6000?
> 
> Also in the UK where I am, something like 12000 for Raw and 16000 for Smackdown? But thats overall viewers?
> 
> Does anybody have a comparison of other TV shows and the demos?
> 
> I refuse to believe in the whole of the US, 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range tuned in.


there‘s more - Dynamite beat them this week in this demo

first time


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

Rozzop said:


> Did I hear that right? 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range in the whole of the US? 6000?
> 
> *Also in the UK where I am, something like 12000 for Raw and 16000 for Smackdown? But thats overall viewers?*
> 
> Does anybody have a comparison of other TV shows and the demos?
> 
> I refuse to believe in the whole of the US, 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range tuned in.


Wow, I hadn't checked the UK ratings for at least for a few weeks but I don't remember it being as low as that! 

They had less than 8,300 for the 6th of July RAW, compared to 26,800 for the first RAW in July in 2019. It's likely more than 26,800 were watching last year as that is the rating for the broadcast on Sky Sports Arena only and RAW was more often than not simulcast on Sky Sports Main Event.


----------



## ElTerrible

The Definition of Technician said:


> It's kind of bad how Big Show/Orton drew the lowest number. Not the tag-team shit we've seen a million times, or "the women"..but Randy Orton who was the hottest star a few weeks ago and Big Show, nothing against these guys but jeez.. no lapsed fans for you.


Randy Orton was just briefly in the orbit of Charisma, Captain Charisma. Now Planet Boreton is back.


----------



## Geeee

Kentucky34 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Seth has been drawing best all year especially the past month.
> 
> The masses turned off the past year because they took the belt off Seth.


As someone who used to watch this show and now doesn't, I can say that the person who has the belt is not a key factor in my decision. Mostly, I don't watch Raw because it is boring and 3 hours is way too long


----------



## wwehbk01

Can’t find it now I’m sure I read somewhere more people watch AEW and Impact Wrestling in UK than WWE Raw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Charzhino

wwehbk01 said:


> Can’t find it now I’m sure I read somewhere more people watch AEW and Impact Wrestling in UK than WWE Raw
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wouldnt be surprising. The move to BT Sport has really killed a lot of the audience pool as BT subscriptions are a lot lower than sky sports. AEW is basically free to air on one of the ITV channels. Whats impact! on?


----------



## wwehbk01

Impact wrestling is on 5 star free to air channel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kingfrass44

Kentucky34 said:


> Drew isn't a good enough between the ropes.
> 
> The women's division chases away viewers.
> 
> Only Seth and Randy Orton add viewers out of those on the main roster. The part timers only provide a small ratings bump for 1 week so they don't really count.


Stop, you're funny and lie


----------



## Kentucky34

kingfrass44 said:


> Stop, you're funny and lie


Where have I lied


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

wwehbk01 said:


> Can’t find it now I’m sure I read somewhere more people watch AEW and Impact Wrestling in UK than WWE Raw
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ordinarily I wouldn't take this suggestion seriously (particularly with regards to Impact Wrestling) but oh boy, I've just checked the ratings again and WWE, across all 3 of its brands, collapsed in very late June/early July to the point where I do believe this is plausible, at least with regards to AEW.

RAW dropped week-on-week by 72% between the 22nd and 29th of June (61,400 vs 17,000) and dropped further the following week (6th of July) to less than 8,300 (I don't have an exact rating)

For some perspective, RAW's highest rating in the UK since our lockdown began on the 23rd of March is 80,800 on the 18th of May. RAW's lowest rating since lockdown began, not counting the ratings on the 29th of June and 6th of July, is 38,700 on the 20th of April.

These are ratings for RAW's live broadcast which begins over here at 1am, so no excuses about clashes with popular entertainment/reality shows can be made, and there were no clashes with other live American sports due to the effect of the pandemic over there at the time. On the other hand, BT Sport doesn't supply its data for digital/on-demand viewing to the publicly accessible source that I use, so it's likely that if you factor that in, RAW's rating for the 6th of July will be somewhat higher but not to the point where it isn't one of the lower ratings of the lockdown period, if not the lowest.

It's hard to make a direct comparison between RAW and AEW's ratings over here because while RAW, as stated above, is broadcast live, AEW is not. Furthermore, the channel on which AEW is broadcast (ITV4) does supply its digital/on-demand viewing. AEW's digital/on-demand viewing has been stable between 1000 and 2000 throughout lockdown, with it specifically being 1654 for its non-live broadcast on the 10th of July.
This means that in the week beginning 6th of July, AEW's digital/on-demand viewing alone was 20% of the maximum estimate (8300) of RAW's live broadcast only viewing. If RAW rated significantly lower than 8,300, then that percentage will be even larger.


----------



## wwehbk01

Is there website that tell me how many people watching WWE AEW and Impact wrestling each week on U.K. channels that they on because I searched for one but can’t find any


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Showstopper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285670132732301313
> LOLLLLLLLLL. Lowest QH in raws 27 year history!!!! BIG GUYS DRAW THOUGH. Enjoy that one to the supposed know it all’s who have been preaching that for years on here.


The nostalgia marks aint gonna like that haha.

Orton plays his heel character well, but he isn’t nor has he ever been a ratings draw. People need to keep the same energy for him that they got for Drew and Seth.


----------



## RainmakerV2

SD held up surprisingly well against MLBs opening day.


----------



## AEW on TNT

how low would it be for them to do it ? How low can they go ??


----------



## InexorableJourney

For USA a million, and RAW would be out of the top 10.

For FOX who knows, FOX is knowns for being twitchy about ratings. It may only take a change of studio head.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

I would think their numbers they are getting, Fox would cancel them. But they have a contract so I wonder if there is wording in there about terminating a deal. Cable is a dying breed right now so these networks need to jump ship and join streaming. I wish there was a cable where you can select what channels that you want. Because I am really only interested in a handful of networks. The rest is filler.


----------



## Dr. Jones

USA will never even think of it because that network hasn't been able to create anything close to a hit in the entire time that Raw has existed. There's been the odd show like Burn Notice, Suits, and Mr. Robot that are well received. But they've never been able to come up with anything in the same stratosphere as WWE. WWE has been the belle of the ugly ball at USA since 1993.

Fox on the other hand has options and isn't chained to them


----------



## Hawkke

I have to admit, I was dumbfounded when Fox got in wtih WWE to begin with. Sure it's still the biggest name in wrestling, but they have been on nothing but a steady decline, and I can't imagine Fox really benefits much from the show.


----------



## LateNightWrestling

USA won't cancel because there not gonna come up with anything that's gonna be a Hit like raw has been for them. But fox coming in and doing the deal with the wwe was always kinda baffling to me because it's not the kinds product anymore that's gonna produce the numbers for the investment there taking it just isn't and the proves in the pudding because numbers have been low for a while so woudnt be shocked if FOX pulled out in the future if the show keeps getting worse and smackdown would have to go somewhere else. But there always gonna have a t.v. Deal somewhere


----------



## DaSlacker

FOX < 1 million viewers. They keep renewing The Simpsons and Family Guy.

USA Network < 500,000 viewers. They'd probably renew it at that but by that point they'd be looking at cheaper wrestling alternatives, in my opinion.


----------



## The Wood

Raw is not likely going anywhere. It's not really the number itself so much as its placement and just how any hours of content they create for USA Network that places them highly. It helps out their entire network perception. Raw will likely go back to two hours before it ever gets cancelled, but they haven't felt the pressure enough to do that yet.

FOX allegedly has a different deal to USA, where they own the rights, in a sense, so it's not like they're really even just paying for a TV show to order, it's more that they're paying the WWE for the privilege to potentially air SmackDown for five years. I found this absolutely baffling when I first heard it, but I've had it framed to me that if FOX decides they don't want to air SmackDown anymore, they still have to pay out the licensing fee. It's like a sports deal. I maintain there must be ways out of it, because there usually are, but it's more likely that SmackDown gets moved than outright cancelled, because FOX are paying for _something_ so they might as well use it. A move to a better night of television is probably more likely, but it's even possible that they move it to Fox Sports 1, although I don't know why they'd do that. 

The ratings are not nearly bad enough to make that cost effective. They are still #1 in the alleged key demo on Friday nights with them. But, shit hits the fan -- you're really looking at a hugely promoted return to two hours for Monday Night Raw, some PPVs throw onto USA as a sweetener and SmackDown moving to Tuesday nights again.


----------



## InexorableJourney

The Wood said:


> Raw is not likely going anywhere. It's not really the number itself so much as its placement and just how any hours of content they create for USA Network that places them highly. It helps out their entire network perception. Raw will likely go back to two hours before it ever gets cancelled, but they haven't felt the pressure enough to do that yet.
> 
> FOX allegedly has a different deal to USA, where they own the rights, in a sense, so it's not like they're really even just paying for a TV show to order, it's more that they're paying the WWE for the privilege to potentially air SmackDown for five years. I found this absolutely baffling when I first heard it, but I've had it framed to me that if FOX decides they don't want to air SmackDown anymore, they still have to pay out the licensing fee. It's like a sports deal. I maintain there must be ways out of it, because there usually are, but it's more likely that SmackDown gets moved than outright cancelled, because FOX are paying for _something_ so they might as well use it. A move to a better night of television is probably more likely, but it's even possible that they move it to Fox Sports 1, although I don't know why they'd do that.
> 
> The ratings are not nearly bad enough to make that cost effective. They are still #1 in the alleged key demo on Friday nights with them. But, shit hits the fan -- you're really looking at a hugely promoted return to two hours for Monday Night Raw, some PPVs throw onto USA as a sweetener and SmackDown moving to Tuesday nights again.


I believe FOX would ask for a significant re-negotiation downwards with more favorable conditions.

The morality clause is usually the easiest way out of a contract, where FOX could sight so many reasons of WWE acting in a way that is has damaged its status/value and that's it no longer resembles the same deal they signed up for.

Added to it going before a Hollywood judge and not the Connecticut connection.

FOX would either get a significantly sweeter deal, or just pull out completely.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Raw is not likely going anywhere. It's not really the number itself so much as its placement and just how any hours of content they create for USA Network that places them highly. It helps out their entire network perception. Raw will likely go back to two hours before it ever gets cancelled, but they haven't felt the pressure enough to do that yet.
> 
> FOX allegedly has a different deal to USA, where they own the rights, in a sense, so it's not like they're really even just paying for a TV show to order, it's more that they're paying the WWE for the privilege to potentially air SmackDown for five years. I found this absolutely baffling when I first heard it, but I've had it framed to me that if FOX decides they don't want to air SmackDown anymore, they still have to pay out the licensing fee. It's like a sports deal. I maintain there must be ways out of it, because there usually are, but it's more likely that SmackDown gets moved than outright cancelled, because FOX are paying for _something_ so they might as well use it. A move to a better night of television is probably more likely, but it's even possible that they move it to Fox Sports 1, although I don't know why they'd do that.
> 
> The ratings are not nearly bad enough to make that cost effective. They are still #1 in the alleged key demo on Friday nights with them. But, shit hits the fan -- you're really looking at a hugely promoted return to two hours for Monday Night Raw, some PPVs throw onto USA as a sweetener and SmackDown moving to Tuesday nights again.


My gut feeling is Fox gets bored with them eventually and low balls them in 2023, spurred on by the long term impact of the recession of network finances. Fox then starts moving the show between the main network and FS1 in an effort to de-value the show/brand. Though that depends on how tight the McMahon family are with the Murdoch empire. Vince tries to instigate a bidding war by offering it to Netflix and Amazon. Eventually SmackDown Live is snapped up by NBCUniversal and replaces NXT on the USA Network. Alongside WWE Network becoming an exclusive partner for Peacock. Wouldn't be surprised if the Raw and SmackDown brand are phased out by this point in favour of the more casual WWE Entertainment. 

On the other hand, I may be hasty with my prediction. Extremely possible both Raw and SmackDown are renewed for similar amounts as they were in 2018. Raw dropping an hour in the process. As they limp along for another decade, with the ratings decline steadying at the 1.1 million viewer range for a few years. Boosted by the return of full arenas.


----------



## NapperX

It would be bad timing if this were to somehow happen soon. What's Fox going to replace SmackDown's timeslot within this covid phase?

ESPN, ABC, Paramount, CBS, etc would love to have them. It's not a good idea to cancel a television program on your network knowing they can easily go somewhere else.


----------



## Fearless Viper

"WWE is dying..."


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287506105325834240
lol what a cop out


----------



## The Wood

I think it’s more likely WWE provides more content for these people than less.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

How low does AEW ratings have to get to get cancelled by TNT? Because they’re doing rubbish ratings


----------



## wrasslin_casual

I am not American so I am curious, is USA a major channel? 

I know of Fox and they have a UK branch on Sky so why the persist with WWE is beyond me but what about USA? Are they relevant enough to pick and choose programming? 

What is more surprising is Sky still persisting with WWE, I doubt the number of viewers are barely in the 10s of thousands and the PPV numbers must be almost zero now. Is it lucrative enough in the UK? Does anyone know?


----------



## The Wood

wrasslin_casual said:


> I am not American so I am curious, is USA a major channel?
> 
> I know of Fox and they have a UK branch on Sky so why the persist with WWE is beyond me but what about USA? Are they relevant enough to pick and choose programming?
> 
> What is more surprising is Sky still persisting with WWE, I doubt the number of viewers are barely in the 10s of thousands and the PPV numbers must be almost zero now. Is it lucrative enough in the UK? Does anyone know?


Yeah, it’s one of the biggest basic cable networks for entertainment. It’s USA, TBS, TNT and FX. WWE is pretty important to USA keeping good standing. USA loves having the WWE and the WWE loves having USA.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

TheGreatBanana said:


> How low does AEW ratings have to get to get cancelled by TNT? Because they’re doing rubbish ratings


This is just a stupid statement. AEW was #5 in 18-49 last week and has been around that spot for the past month. Last week they were #1 in 18-49 Males. They are drawing the younger demos very well and a competitive with Raw and SD. Also look at what TNT was drawing on Weds nights before AEW debuted. 

Now to the subject of Raw or SD getting cancelled. I think the issue is future TV contracts. I don't see USA cancelling but I can't see them throwing money like they have. I feel like once crowds come back WWE will get some viewership back. The biggest issue is the longer we have empty arena shows the more people will tune out. I mean I will read on here to see if there is anything I want to see and I will then decide to watch my DVR or look it up on youtube. I always thought 1.8 million was the basement for Raw but that was before the empty arenas. Now with sports coming back (kind of) could we see 1.25M or even 1M? I feel like AEW has had some hits and misses but they have tried. WWE has barely tried and keep trying this cinematic stuff because people liked The Boneyard Match. Fox now I could see if viewership continues to crater they could move it to FS1 at some point. WWE is in trouble as who knows if they will be able to go back to Saudi again and future TV money will not repeat these billion dollar deals.


----------



## fabi1982

RAW is always in the top5 cable ratings, Smackdown is usually no.1 cable rating. So even with declining viewership why would anyone think they will cancel it? Usually you think if something loses 500k viewers in a couple of month they will go out of the top10, but RAW stayed where it always is. Same goes for Smackdown. So why would anyone throw away such successes? And with OP being an AEW fan, isnt this exact same mindset the reason no one cares about viewers, but about position in the ratings table on Wednesday night? Why isnt it good enough for WWE to be on top for each brand?


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> My gut feeling is Fox gets bored with them eventually and low balls them in 2023, spurred on by the long term impact of the recession of network finances. Fox then starts moving the show between the main network and FS1 in an effort to de-value the show/brand. Though that depends on how tight the McMahon family are with the Murdoch empire. Vince tries to instigate a bidding war by offering it to Netflix and Amazon. Eventually SmackDown Live is snapped up by NBCUniversal and replaces NXT on the USA Network. Alongside WWE Network becoming an exclusive partner for Peacock. Wouldn't be surprised if the Raw and SmackDown brand are phased out by this point in favour of the more casual WWE Entertainment.
> 
> On the other hand, I may be hasty with my prediction. Extremely possible both Raw and SmackDown are renewed for similar amounts as they were in 2018. Raw dropping an hour in the process. As they limp along for another decade, with the ratings decline steadying at the 1.1 million viewer range for a few years. Boosted by the return of full arenas.


The longer this goes on for, the more likely that the return to "arenas" will be more akin to the return to the Mid Hudson Civic Center.

At last glance, WWE is down 36% year over year in viewership. The key is how does that compare to the rest of USA and FOX's average viewership. If it's on par, then WWE does not have much to worry themselves over. If WWE itself is the outlier, then there should be concern.

My own prediction is that WWE signs with Disney to put RAW on ESPN+ in four years, while Smackdown moves back to cable. And within eight years, WWE itself is acquired by Disney. RAW is renamed something else, like WWE Showdown. Smackdown is dropped, NXT is dropped, the Performance Center remains open to train young performers, and most classic content is vaulted away.


----------



## Dizzie

TheGreatBanana said:


> How low does AEW ratings have to get to get cancelled by TNT? Because they’re doing rubbish ratings


First of all raw or smackdown ain't getting cancelled anytime soon in the next 4 years because they wont be shedding fans that quick as they will have a good hardcore base, so anyone hoping for that will have a hell of a wait. 

As for you getting irrationally defensive about the subject to throw aew into the mix, they ain't doing terrible ratings when you think this is a start up promotion still in its first year building up its brand and fanbase, they seem to average around 800k mark, do relatively well with the demo's and unlike smackdown or raw they have competion during the same time slot from nxt which is prompt up by a wrestling company that is way ahead of the rest of the other promotion, plus aew is getting paid a considerable amount less by TNT than what usa and fox are paying wwe.


----------



## the_flock

CMPunkRock316 said:


> This is just a stupid statement. AEW was #5 in 18-49 last week and has been around that spot for the past month. Last week they were #1 in 18-49 Males.


That's a meaningless stat which AEW fans use to try and make the company seem relevant. 

It's like in football/soccer, a team gets battered, but fans say their team had more possession, its irrelevant.


----------



## Ucok

I doubt with USN but Fox probably could move SDL from prime FOX to FS1 or FS2.


----------



## taker_2004

the_flock said:


> That's a meaningless stat which AEW fans use to try and make the company seem relevant.


lol, you have no idea how ratings and demos work, do you? Neilsen provides key demo stats for every show because they are relevant especially to advertising dollars.

Fuck I hate marks, WWE or AEW.


----------



## the_flock

taker_2004 said:


> lol, you have no idea how ratings and demos work, do you? Neilsen provides key demo stats for every show because they are relevant especially to advertising dollars.
> 
> Fuck I hate marks, WWE or AEW.


I'm not a mark for anyone and yes I do know how it works. It's utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

If you debut at 1.2 million people watching and at the end of your contract you're down to 6-800k, it's not going to look very favourable whether you're 5th in the teen bracket for orginal programming on a Wednesday evening or whatever non descript, nonsensical drivel you try to prove you're winning.

Here in the UK, there's been shows which have been axed which get 3-5 million viewers of which are a hell of a lot more popular than AEW.


----------



## taker_2004

the_flock said:


> I'm not a mark for anyone and yes I do know how it works. It's utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> If you debut at 1.2 million people watching and at the end of your contract you're down to 6-800k, it's not going to look very favourable whether you're 5th in the teen bracket for orginal programming on a Wednesday evening or whatever non descript, nonsensical drivel you try to prove you're winning.


It's okay if you don't understand the correlation between key demo ratings and advertising dollars; that doesn't make it drivel, though.



> In general, the number of viewers within the 18–49 age range is more important than the total number of viewers.[14][15] According to _Advertising Age_, during the 2007–08 season, ABC was able to charge $419,000 per commercial sold during its medical drama _Grey's Anatomy_, compared to only $248,000 for a commercial during CBS' _CSI: Crime Scene Investigation_, despite _CSI_ having almost five million more viewers on average.[16] Because of its strength in young "demos" (demographic groups), NBC was able to charge almost three times as much for a commercial during _Friends_ as CBS charged for _Murder, She Wrote_, even though the two series had a similar amount of total viewership during the two seasons they were on the air concurrently.[14] _Glee_ (on Fox) and _The Office_ (on NBC) drew fewer total viewers than _NCIS_ (on CBS) during the 2009–10 season, but earned an average of $272,694 and $213,617 respectively, compared to $150,708 for _NCIS. _




With the impending death of traditional cable, metrics for success are more finite. They include key demo ratings, Live+3/7, ratio of cost-per-hour of programming to viewership etc.

For example, SmackDown costs Fox $205 million per year, which amounts to approximately $2.05 million per hour of programming. For ease of math, let's say they average 2.05 million viewers per hour, it equals $1 per viewer. Then the key demo comes in, how much they can charge for advertising, and see what the overall profitability is to Fox. 

Comparatively, Big Bang Theory's latest seasons cost over $11 million per hour of programming but attracted an audience of between 16 and 19 million per episode (about $0.62 per viewer).


----------



## the_flock

taker_2004 said:


> It's okay if you don't understand the correlation between key demo ratings and advertising dollars; that doesn't make it drivel, though.


I'm fully aware of all that thanks. You don't need to talk down to me and be patronising.

My point was people using the demographics to try and prove a point that somehow AEW are doing well, when they're not.

This point has already been made by a lot of industrial professionals who have all said its drivel to try and prove a point, because they know they're doing shite.

What will it be after they're not winning the teen demographic, they're winning the 0-6 demo? The 6-12 demo? Or maybe the single housewifes with more than 2 kids under the age of 16 demo.


----------



## taker_2004

the_flock said:


> This point has already been made by a lot of industrial professionals who have all said its drivel to try and prove a point, because they know they're doing shite.


This is the industry I work in. So why does every television broadcast have a key demo rating, if it's just AEW grasping straws rather than a relevant industry-wide metric?



> What will it be after they're not winning the teen demographic, they're winning the 0-6 demo? The 6-12 demo? Or maybe the single housewifes with more than 2 kids under the age of 16 demo.


18-49 is the sought-after consumer age bracket with the most disposable income, not the "teen bracket". This is like an established fact for decades....

You really do sound like a mark. You're so concerned with painting AEW a failure that you'll distort or contradict well-established facts. No knowledgeable industry professional will tell you that the key demo ratings are "shite." 

Frankly you sound like you're talking out of your ass, making shit up and stringing together some words you think will sound witty.


----------



## ClintDagger

taker_2004 said:


> lol, you have no idea how ratings and demos work, do you? Neilsen provides key demo stats for every show because they are relevant especially to advertising dollars.
> 
> Fuck I hate marks, WWE or AEW.


Wrestling demos are atrocious. By quoting the rankings in the pure age demo and saying wrestling is popular with advertisers you are spreading bad info. Wrestling gets horrible advertisers like insurance, fast food, candy, etcetera because the audience is not a highly sought out group. Wrestling demos are quite low on the income and education spectrums and therefore are not highly valued.


----------



## taker_2004

ClintDagger said:


> Wrestling demos are atrocious.
> Wrestling demos are quite low on the income and education spectrums and therefore are not highly valued.


This is true. But I never said otherwise. The original discussion was that the key demo does matter across the board. Wrestling fans do skew poor and uneducated, so are therefore less sought-after.



> By quoting the rankings in the pure age demo and saying wrestling is popular with advertisers you are spreading bad info.


But I didn't say that. The original point was that the key 18-49 demographic isn't some arbitrary straw AEW is grasping at, but a common industry-wide metric. And of course it's just the tip of iceberg; advertisers focus on specific C3 attributes as it is proven to generate more leads than blanket advertising.



> Wrestling gets horrible advertisers like insurance, fast food, candy, etcetera because the audience is not a highly sought out group.


Well there a ton of variables that advertisers consider:

Live viewers (most likely to watch commercials)
Affluent
Female is preferred as they're more voracious consumers, but a heavy male demo can be beneficial for targeted marketing etc.
Thing is, the original discussion is with someone who obviously believes cumulative viewers is the only metric that matters. Or maybe he doesn't actually believe that but he doesn't like AEW so it's a convenient argument that demos don't matter.[/QUOTE]


----------



## wrasslin_casual

The Wood said:


> Yeah, it’s one of the biggest basic cable networks for entertainment. It’s USA, TBS, TNT and FX. WWE is pretty important to USA keeping good standing. USA loves having the WWE and the WWE loves having USA.


Why does it need the WWE right now? I can understand the 90s and even 00s but what does the WWE do for USA post 2010? Surely the ratings are pretty damn bad, no?


----------



## theboxingfan

DaSlacker said:


> FOX < 1 million viewers. They keep renewing The Simpsons and Family Guy.
> 
> USA Network < 500,000 viewers. They'd probably renew it at that but by that point they'd be looking at cheaper wrestling alternatives, in my opinion.


The Simpsons has made Fox a billion dollars. Smackdown is probably losing Fox money.


----------



## Victor86

Honestly I don’t know why they don’t just stop with these tv deals and just do it all live on wwe network , while increasing the fee for the network to like 15-20$ a month or so.

I don’t even have real cable tv at home anymore , all I have is Apple TV with all the streaming apps and that’s more than enoght for me as I can subscribe/unsubscribe with ease with barely any efforts.

I am much more likely to watch wwe if I can watch them throug wwe network and even willing to pay an extra 5-10$ a month for that service .

Just end the cable era already


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

fabi1982 said:


> RAW is always in the top5 cable ratings, Smackdown is usually no.1 cable rating. So even with declining viewership why would anyone think they will cancel it? Usually you think if something loses 500k viewers in a couple of month they will go out of the top10, but RAW stayed where it always is. Same goes for Smackdown. So why would anyone throw away such successes? And with OP being an AEW fan, isnt this exact same mindset the reason no one cares about viewers, but about position in the ratings table on Wednesday night? Why isnt it good enough for WWE to be on top for each brand?


The answer is simple. Hardcore AEW fans are delusional morons.

They've convinced themselves AEW is leading a revolution and that AEW is a part of their identity. In reality, AEW provides the same style of variety show booking. It's what people are used to but they've fooled their hardcore fans into thinking is something no one's seen before.

AEW beating WWE's third brand, that isn't designed to be mainstream, is a sign that AEW are ready to take over the world and that they're a lot better. Raw & SmackDown still comfortably being the two most watched wrestling shows doesn't mean anything...

People should also learn how flimsy a system the TV ratings system is. Unless you're a Nielsen household, which less than 50,000 homes in the US are, then your viewing habits don't matter. You can also just straight up lie about who's viewing what and how many guests are watching with you etc. An interesting article here about that - We Were a Nielsen Family — Here’s What It Was Like


----------



## Seafort

AuthorOfPosts said:


> The answer is simple. Hardcore AEW fans are delusional morons.
> 
> They've convinced themselves AEW is leading a revolution and that AEW is a part of their identity. In reality, AEW provides the same style of variety show booking. It's what people are used to but they've fooled their hardcore fans into thinking is something no one's seen before.
> 
> AEW beating WWE's third brand, that isn't designed to be mainstream, is a sign that AEW are ready to take over the world and that they're a lot better. Raw & SmackDown still comfortably being the two most watched wrestling shows doesn't mean anything...
> 
> People should also learn how flimsy a system the TV ratings system is. Unless you're a Nielsen household, which less than 50,000 homes in the US are, then your viewing habits don't matter. You can also just straight up lie about who's viewing what and how many guests are watching with you etc. An interesting article here about that - We Were a Nielsen Family — Here’s What It Was Like


That's one argument.

There's a second argument, and you can believe it while still adhering to yours.

AEW's fanbase is largely disaffected WWE fans. Or more succinctly, the fanbase that they have shed in the last 18-24 months that still care about wrestling but have been driven off by WWE's creative collapse. The upside to AEW is likely a majority of the combined audience of both Dynamite and NXT, which would place it not that far from RAW itself. We can talk about how far bigger RAW's audience is and that it truthful, but the simple fact is that RAW lacks competition. Put Dynamite up against it and RAW wins each week, but rather than pulling in 1.6M - 1.5M viewers as it is now, that audience falls to under a million.


----------



## deadcool

For one of the RAWs, they had a viewership of approximately 6000 in a key demo (18-34) for a quarter hour. Meltzer confirmed this too. The fact that NBCU didn't kick them off the next day tells me that there is no specific number that they should reach in order to be booted off (especially during the pandemic).

The worst that will happen is that WWE will get a lower TV deal from USA the next time their contract expires. USA doesn't really have shows like ABC or CBS or NBC does that pulls in serious ratings. This allows them to deal with the WWE.

The Fox part is a big unknown. No one can predict whats going on until the wrestling journalists report that WWE is negotiating with another network to sell Smackdown.


----------



## The Sheik

This is a funny thread from someone named 'AEW on TNT'


----------



## ClintDagger

taker_2004 said:


> This is true. But I never said otherwise. The original discussion was that the key demo does matter across the board. Wrestling fans do skew poor and uneducated, so are therefore less sought-after.
> 
> 
> 
> But I didn't say that. The original point was that the key 18-49 demographic isn't some arbitrary straw AEW is grasping at, but a common industry-wide metric. And of course it's just the tip of iceberg; advertisers focus on specific C3 attributes as it is proven to generate more leads than blanket advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there a ton of variables that advertisers consider:
> 
> Live viewers (most likely to watch commercials)
> Affluent
> Female is preferred as they're more voracious consumers, but a heavy male demo can be beneficial for targeted marketing etc.
> Thing is, the original discussion is with someone who obviously believes cumulative viewers is the only metric that matters. Or maybe he doesn't actually believe that but he doesn't like AEW so it's a convenient argument that demos don't matter.


[/QUOTE]
Cumulative viewers really is all that matters for wrestling. Wrestling attracts terrible advertisers and can’t procure holy grails like car companies. Looking at their demos is foolhardy. The only value to wrestling programming is the raw total and the impact that generates for rights fees. That’s why USA has been so loyal. WWE has kept them in the upper tier of “most watched” cable networks. The more granular views are worthless.


----------



## The Wood

taker_2004 said:


> This is the industry I work in. So why does every television broadcast have a key demo rating, if it's just AEW grasping straws rather than a relevant industry-wide metric?
> 
> 
> 
> 18-49 is the sought-after consumer age bracket with the most disposable income, not the "teen bracket". This is like an established fact for decades....
> 
> You really do sound like a mark. You're so concerned with painting AEW a failure that you'll distort or contradict well-established facts. No knowledgeable industry professional will tell you that the key demo ratings are "shite."
> 
> Frankly you sound like you're talking out of your ass, making shit up and stringing together some words you think will sound witty.


I’ve spoken to people who work in the industry, having brushed with it myself, and they completely disagree with you. Nielsen is a largely disputed method, largely seen as antiquated. There is far more to analysing demos than just looking at how many people are in a certain age bracket, and to reduce it to that is dishonest and doing a disservice to what you allegedly do.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> I’ve spoken to people who work in the industry, having brushed with it myself, and they completely disagree with you. Nielsen is a largely disputed method, largely seen as antiquated. There is far more to analysing demos than just looking at how many people are in a certain age bracket, and to reduce it to that is dishonest and doing a disservice to what you allegedly do.


And looking at the median age of AEW it is even more funny that the hardcore fans are thinking "we have such a young demo", when it is basically just a couple years younger than what WWE has. But I think this is just discussing with a rock, when it comes to AEW hardcore fans.

And see, a two page discussion about ratings (even started with the intent to make fun of WWE) isnt escalating and people can argue without insulting people...just shows that we can´t take the hardcores seriously, who are insutling eveyone not sucking the dick of AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I’ve spoken to people who work in the industry, having brushed with it myself, and they completely disagree with you. Nielsen is a largely disputed method, largely seen as antiquated. There is far more to analysing demos than just looking at how many people are in a certain age bracket, and to reduce it to that is dishonest and doing a disservice to what you allegedly do.


Sure

This time last year raw ratings down
47% overall
67% 18-49
74% 18-34


----------



## RT1981

can't wait to see how Sasha and Bayley tanked the ratings this week.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> can't wait to see how Sasha and Bayley tanked the ratings this week.


Oh, I see that you haven’t woken up yet since you’re STILL falsely blaming Sasha Banks and Bayley for the low ratings :lmao :mj4

When will ignorant people like you ever learn that Raw will get subpar ratings no matter who they push or feature on TV?

It’s not like we have 6+ years of evidence that WWE has been dealing with a gradual ratings decline, and it’ll continue to get lower later this fall (even when they book newer world champions on top too)


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I see that you haven’t woken up yet since you’re STILL falsely blaming Sasha Banks and Bayley for the low ratings :lmao :mj4
> 
> When will ignorant people like you ever learn that Raw will get subpar ratings no matter who they push or feature on TV?
> 
> It’s not like we have 6+ years of evidence that WWE has been dealing with a gradual ratings decline, and it’ll continue to get lower later this fall (even when they book newer world champions on top too)


you are just a butthurt fanboy who sad that his favs are ratings killlers.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> you are just a butthurt fanboy who sad that his favs are ratings killlers.


Ah, the classic "butthurt fanboy" card from you (who's also predictably wrong about what's killing the ratings) 

Yep, that explains why I'm willing to give EVERY individual wrestler on the main roster the benefit of the doubt regarding the low ratings due to the fact that they're just the pawns of an incompetent wrestling company. Besides, I'm a bigger fan of Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, and Asuka; but yet they're either absent from TV OR they're no longer a world champion.

Anyway, I figured that you had shit left to say


----------



## Kentucky34

Why the negativity?

It was a great show.


----------



## taker_2004

The Wood said:


> I’ve spoken to people who work in the industry, having brushed with it myself, and they completely disagree with you. Nielsen is a largely disputed method, largely seen as antiquated. There is far more to analysing demos than just looking at how many people are in a certain age bracket, and to reduce it to that is dishonest and doing a disservice to what you allegedly do.


Actually, this is a dishonest representation of what I said. The most antiquated of Neilsen's measurements is cumulative live audience, which is what the original poster claims is the only relevant metric. I also gave examples of sex, affluence, education as determining factors to an audience's perceived value to advertisers. 

I agree that Neilsen is incredibly antiquated, particularly on the television front. They've better modified their music tracking with SoundScan to include other methods of distribution, whereas with regards to tv they've only just added Live+3/7. 

But that's the point I'm trying to illustrate. Neilsen cumulative viewers is the most basic and least valuable metrics to advertisers due to lack of specificity. 

To be clear I never said Neilsen was a comprehensive measure of relevance, particularly its glaring lack of taking into account streaming and social media consumption. I just said that key demo ratings are more important to advertisers than cumulative viewers, and that's been a fact since the 70s.


----------



## Ozell Gray

No one knows except WWE,USA Network, and Fox but I don't see WWE's viewership or tv ratings getting lower than what they currently are.


----------



## Dizzie

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287506105325834240
> lol what a cop out


Vince bringing up the demo's shows that attracting the key demo's do hold value in the ratings.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.699M [14th] | 0.520D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.688M [15th] | 0.500D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.463M [19th] | 0.410D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.617M | 0.477D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.011M | - 0.65% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.85% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.225M | - 13.33% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 18.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.236M | - 13.89% ]
[ - 0.110D | - 21.15% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.011M | - 0.68% ]
[ + 0.017D | + 3.70% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.704M | - 30.33% ]
[ - 0.266D | - 35.80% ]*


----------



## Garty

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287506105325834240
> lol what a cop out


Isn't this the same "future-proofing" and "crystal-ball predicting" that they've been feeding to investors the past few years now? What will be their next deflection answer in another 3 months from now?

By the way, Vince sounds really, really old in that clip. I heard mumbling when he spoke and I'm sure that was a well written and well rehearsed statement, he was reading from.


----------



## Garty

Dizzie said:


> Vince bringing up the demo's shows that attracting the key demo's do hold value in the ratings.


No they don't... you take that back right now!


----------



## Not Lying

Garty said:


> Isn't this the same "future-proofing" and "crystal-ball predicting" that they've been feeding to investors the past few years now? What will be their next deflection answer in another 3 months from now?
> 
> By the way, Vince sounds really, really old in that clip. I heard mumbling when he spoke and I'm sure that was a well written and well rehearsed statement, he was reading from.


the only difference is now that is the dip has been at a bigger rate than ever, losing around 800k viewers in less than a year. If there's no comeback by the end of the year, it will be though to justify. 
I mean, he will say no Lesnar, Reigns, Becky, no crowd, and they'll be building 'future' stars. But depends on if anyone wants to challenge him which doesn't happen usually happen on those calls. 
The only thing that WWE should be worried about is large networks doing some cost-benefits analysis and see that an alternative like AEW could bring in higher % return on their cost.
Either their TV will drop, or depending on the cable TV state in 3-4 years, maybe WWE will still get top notch deal.


----------



## Kentucky34

Drew and Dolph didn't draw. 

Seth drew well again in hour 2. WWE need to put him in hour 3 so the audience sticks around.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

New all time low for 3rd hour of Raw. Sorry, Drew:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288204137297924097


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> New all time low for 3rd hour of Raw. Sorry, Drew:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288204137297924097


 lmfao wasn't #TheDraw's match in hour 3 as well?


----------



## Ace

Did they advertise Sasha this time around @BOSS of Bel-Air

Another ALL TIME honor for your home girl to go with her "prestigious" world title she won via count out.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> New all time low for 3rd hour of Raw. Sorry, Drew:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288204137297924097


I had the third hour on in the background. It was all highly predictable. Recap of the stuff between Kabuki Warriors, Sasha and Bayley. Good athletic match between Humberto and Murphy, but it meant nothing and a lot of these guys work a style which feels very choreographed imo. Ziggler is about as weak of an opponent as you get from a kayfabe standpoint and like the normal matches, the streetfight stuff is very by the numbers too. Ending of the show was obvious.


----------



## Prosper

Every week they hit an all time low in some metric.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

To think this is the ratings for one of the higher rated wrestling shows these days (only behind SD). Wrestling on TV is just dead.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Terrible ratings LOL! That’s what happens when you continue to push geeks


----------



## kazarn

There's nothing interesting on this show, only Orton. Rollins does the same thing every week and Sasha and Bayley are terribly overexposed. Why would anyone tune in for this?


----------



## Kentucky34

MoxAsylum said:


> Terrible ratings LOL! That’s what happens when you continue to push geeks


Yes, Seth is the only performer pulling strong numbers. 

I like Orton but he's not lifting numbers that much. Sasha and Drew are turning viewers off.


----------



## RT1981

once again Sasha Banks the boss at low tv ratings.


----------



## Joe Gill

Does anyone remember what the ratings were like when WWE signed their last tv deal for RAW? How much have the ratings decreased since then? Cord cutting + trash product.... I could see less than 1 million viewers for hour 3 in a year from now.


----------



## vanboxmeer

I am only posting in here, because never in my lifetime would I thought the Raw ratings would reach TNA Impact levels. But here we are, and in less than a decade.

The industry is dying, and the slope is getting deeper. Bragging about snake oil social media numbers killed and writing for the audience who lives on it like parasites, led to its accelerated demise.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> once again Sasha Banks the boss at low tv ratings.


Vince is actually the boss at low TV ratings. Nice petty obsession with your hatred though.


----------



## Prosper

MoxAsylum said:


> Terrible ratings LOL! That’s what happens when you continue to push geeks


Lol and pushing who is gonna change things? McIntyre is the best they got.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I wonder if Vince pulls a Vince and puts the title on Orton just for the sake of change. Wouldn't be shocked, and it won't matter.


----------



## Ace

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if Vince pulls a Vince and puts the title on Orton just for the sake of change. Wouldn't be shocked, and it won't matter.


When did sig size limits get removed?


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Vince is actually the boss at low TV ratings. Nice petty obsession with your hatred though.


keep crying.Raw has not been able to get over 1.7 million viewers since they started over pushing Banks and Bayley.


----------



## Purple Haze

1 million by the end of the year.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Basketball is back next week. Look the fuck out


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> Did they advertise Sasha this time around @BOSS of Bel-Air
> 
> Another ALL TIME honor for your home girl to go with her "prestigious" world title she won via count out.


Like that all time honor that your boy has of having the lowest rated match ever on raw?


----------



## DaSlacker

Joe Gill said:


> Does anyone remember what the ratings were like when WWE signed their last tv deal for RAW? How much have the ratings decreased since then? Cord cutting + trash product.... I could see less than 1 million viewers for hour 3 in a year from now.


They signed the deal in May 2018. Raw had been doing like 3.3 million viewers on average in the first quarter of the year. Consistent with what they were doing in 2017.


----------



## Kentucky34

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol and pushing who is gonna change things? McIntyre is the best they got.


He isn't. 

Seth, Gargano and Riddle are all much better.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ace said:


> When did sig size limits get removed?


I don't know. I didn't even notice it until now lol.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

Joe Gill said:


> Does anyone remember what the ratings were like when WWE signed their last tv deal for RAW? How much have the ratings decreased since then? Cord cutting + trash product.... I could see less than 1 million viewers for hour 3 in a year from now.





> “Raw” is currently averaging 3.6 million viewers per episode in Live+7 viewing, while “SmackDown” is averaging 2.9 million.











WWE’s ‘SmackDown Live’ Moves to Fox Broadcasting in 2019


WWE and Fox Sports have officially closed a five-year deal that will see “SmackDown Live” air on Fox Broadcasting beginning next year. The sports entertainment company announced Tuesday…




variety.com


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> He isn't.
> 
> Seth, Gargano and Riddle are all much better.


I'd take McIntyre over Rollins or Matt Riddle any day. Gargano's weight and build is not believable in the main event scene in the way Bryan's was. And none of those guys are going to help things get better.


----------



## Joe Gill

DaSlacker said:


> They signed the deal in May 2018. Raw had been doing like 3.3 million viewers on average in the first quarter of the year. Consistent with what they were doing in 2017.


wow... so if the trend continues there is a good chance the ratings will be 1/3 of what they were just 2 years ago. thats a massive drop. Normally if a tv show sees that type of a drop off it is prime for cancellation. Obviously that wont happen for RAW but WWE is in serious trouble. If AEW can get back to the 1 million viewer range there is now a real possibility that Dynamite could beat RAW in the 18-49 demo a year from now.


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Like that all time honor that your boy has of having the lowest rated match ever on raw?


 Who? Drew?

Drew isn't my boy.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> To think this is the ratings for one of the higher rated wrestling shows these days (only behind SD). Wrestling on TV is just dead.


AEW - as a start up - would probably be pulling in 1.2M unopposed. And if RAW had AEW as competition, their viewership would probably be slightly below 1M right now (with AEW likely at 500K).


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> Who? Drew?
> 
> Drew isn't my boy.


Nope the kid in your avatar, unless drew saved him this week.


----------



## Ace

Hephaesteus said:


> Nope the kid in your avatar, unless drew saved him this week.


 Orton wasn't in the match, he was on like 30 seconds post match lol.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Ace said:


> Orton wasn't in the match, he was on like 30 seconds post match lol.


He was however in the unsanctioned match with the hig show which at the very least set the previous record.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Keep pushing the young guys and plan the long game because it'll eventually pay off with better viewership and tv ratings. They shouldn't worry about viewership and ratings weekly because you'll never recover by doing that.



Seafort said:


> AEW - as a start up - would probably be pulling in 1.2M unopposed. And if RAW had AEW as competition, their viewership would probably be slightly below 1M right now (with AEW likely at 500K).


No AEW wouldn't be doing 1.2 million unopposed. Dynamite couldn't get 1 million viewers when NXT decided not to have a show in January and Raw would demolish Dynamite easily. Raw would still pull 1.7 million viewers easily while also taking Dynamite's viewers away and Dynamite sinking to 200 or 300,000 viewers. Its completely delusional to think Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw because thats not reality.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if Vince pulls a Vince and puts the title on Orton just for the sake of change. Wouldn't be shocked, and it won't matter.


Orton should probably get the title to be honest. He's on a better run right now. Unfortunately I think the match is to help give McIntyre some credibility. Beating Ziggler does nothing.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if Vince pulls a Vince and puts the title on Orton just for the sake of change. Wouldn't be shocked, and it won't matter.


Orton wouldve won the belt with or wothout the ratings


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

The Definition of Technician said:


> the only difference is now that is the dip has been at a bigger rate than ever, losing around 800k viewers in less than a year. If there's no comeback by the end of the year, it will be though to justify.
> I mean, he will say no Lesnar, Reigns, Becky, no crowd, and they'll be building 'future' stars. But depends on if anyone wants to challenge him which doesn't happen usually happen on those calls.
> The only thing that WWE should be worried about is large networks doing some cost-benefits analysis and see that an alternative like AEW could bring in higher % return on their cost.
> *Either their TV will drop, or depending on the cable TV state in 3-4 years, maybe WWE will still get top notch deal.*


Raw's year-on-year decline in total viewers in the first quarter of 2020 was three times bigger (16%) than the decline of cable TV as a whole (5%)

Page 2 - https://corporate.wwe.com/~/media/Files/W/WWE/press-releases/2020/q1-2020-kpi.pdf


----------



## Rozzop

You had 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age demo in the entire US last week. 

I wonder how many this week? 

All thats left are the fans of the women. It will become Womens Wrestling Entertainment in the not too distant future.


----------



## Not Lying

These ratings actually prove that Sasha/Asuka had a much better retention rate than the WWE Champion when they were in the 3rd hour.


----------



## Balor fan

The ratings are terrible. Sad part is there is nothing else they can do. Mcintyre vs Orton is their ace card for ratings and subscriptions. 

I think years of terrible booking is starting to catch up. A McIntyre or Orton cannot save this sinking ship single handedly.


----------



## Kentucky34

Rozzop said:


> You had 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age demo in the entire US last week.
> 
> I wonder how many this week?
> 
> All thats left are the fans of the women. It will become Womens Wrestling Entertainment in the not too distant future.


The women don't draw.



The Definition of Technician said:


> These ratings actually prove that Sasha/Asuka had a much better retention rate than the WWE Champion when they were in the 3rd hour.


Actually it was Seth that retained the audience in hour 2.


----------



## rbl85

Making a show grow in popularity is like the opposite of a diet.

In a diet a lot of people need a year or more to lose 10-20 kg but they can gain it back in a matter of 2 months.

For a TV show is super hard and long to gain viewers but you can lost them super fast.


----------



## Ace

The Definition of Technician said:


> These ratings actually prove that Sasha/Asuka had a much better retention rate than the WWE Champion when they were in the 3rd hour.


 Sasha/Asuka was in the third hour.

It also had a finish where a world title changed hands on a count out.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> These ratings actually prove that Sasha/Asuka had a much better retention rate than the WWE Champion when they were in the 3rd hour.


Usually if the 1 and 2 hours are bad (or not liked by the viewers) then third hour is going to lose tons of viewers.

But the third hour is the worst for any wrestler.

If was in charge i would put the big names in the first and second hours.


----------



## The XL 2

Hour 3 under 1.5 mil for the first time ever, lmao. This show will fall below 1 mil before the year is over, you can take that to the bank. AEW will eventually catch up without even having to actually grow their audience.


----------



## Balor fan

Funny part is the Drew match and Sasha match has the highest amount of views on YouTube. Drew videos always do millions of views every week. Maybe people are just not watching 3 hrs of this shit on tv and going straight to YouTube instead. I don't know


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> Keep pushing the young guys and plan the long game because it'll eventually pay off with better viewership and tv ratings. They shouldn't worry about viewership and ratings weekly because you'll never recover by doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> No AEW wouldn't be doing 1.2 million unopposed. Dynamite couldn't get 1 million viewers when NXT decided not to have a show in January and Raw would demolish Dynamite easily. Raw would still pull 1.7 million viewers easily while also taking Dynamite's viewers away and Dynamite sinking to 200 or 300,000 viewers. Its completely delusional to think Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw because thats not reality.


It’s completely delusional and a flight of fantasy to think that there would not be any bleedover if Raw ran against Dynamite. You underestimate how unentertaining WWE is presently. As for unopposed, what is the combined NXT Dynamite audience? It’s roughly 1.4M. It’s not unreasonable to think that Dynamite would consistently be above 1M if it was unopposed.


----------



## The XL 2

Ozell Gray said:


> Keep pushing the young guys and plan the long game because it'll eventually pay off with better viewership and tv ratings. They shouldn't worry about viewership and ratings weekly because you'll never recover by doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> No AEW wouldn't be doing 1.2 million unopposed. Dynamite couldn't get 1 million viewers when NXT decided not to have a show in January and Raw would demolish Dynamite easily. Raw would still pull 1.7 million viewers easily while also taking Dynamite's viewers away and Dynamite sinking to 200 or 300,000 viewers. Its completely delusional to think Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw because thats not reality.


It's far more likely that Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw. AEW has a fairly stable and loyal fanbase, and Raw is the titanic, setting a new all time low in some metric every other week. Raw will be under 1 million viewers by January.


----------



## Kentucky34

Balor fan said:


> Funny part is the Drew match and Sasha match has the highest amount of views on YouTube. Drew videos always do millions of views every week. Maybe people are just not watching 3 hrs of this shit on tv and going straight to YouTube instead. I don't know


A lot of people make the effort to tune in for Seth's segments. Then tune out. 

They watch Drew and Sasha's segments on Youtube later if they can be bothered. They are not worth making the effort to stay up and tune in for.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> It's far more likely that Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw. AEW has a fairly stable and loyal fanbase, and Raw is the titanic, setting a new all time low in some metric every other week. Raw will be under 1 million viewers by January.


AEW's numbers are far worse than WWE's. 

It's only going to get worse for AEW in the next few months. The novelty will wear off.


----------



## The XL 2

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW's numbers are far worse than WWE's.
> 
> It's only going to get worse for AEW in the next few months. The novelty will wear off.


WWE is literally hemorrhaging numbers by the week. AEW isn't growing their base, but they're not bleeding out either. It's over for WWE, it's just a matter of time. They won't have an audience soon.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> WWE is literally hemorrhaging numbers by the week. AEW isn't growing their base, but they're not bleeding out either. It's over for WWE, it's just a matter of time. They won't have an audience soon.


Then neither will AEW.

AEW is brand new and fresh. They should be killing WWE's numbers really. Instead they get killed every week.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Seafort said:


> It’s completely delusional and a flight of fantasy to think that there would not be any bleedover if Raw ran against Dynamite. You underestimate how unentertaining WWE is presently. As for unopposed, what is the combined NXT Dynamite audience? It’s roughly 1.4M. It’s not unreasonable to think that Dynamite would consistently be above 1M if it was unopposed.


Except even though WWE isn't good you're being delusional if you think Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw because I can gaurantee you that would never happen. If anything like I said Raw would still get 1.7 million viewers and take most of Dynamite's viewers and knock its viewership down to 300,000 viewers. Its completely unreadonble to think Dynamite would do 1 million viewers unopposed since it went unopposed earlier this year and still couldn't get 1 million viewers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The NBA might very well destroy NXT and AEW on Wednesday nights. I know the plan is for the NFL season to succeed, but that is the sport with the most physical contact, so I don't know how that season goes forward if MLB is having trouble already. Should be interesting.


----------



## The XL 2

Ozell Gray said:


> Except even though WWE isn't good you're being delusional if you think Dynamite would take viewers away from Raw because I can gaurantee you that would never happen. If anything like I said Raw would still get 1.7 million viewers and take most of Dynamite's viewers and knock its viewership down to 300,000 viewers. Its completely unreadonble to think Dynamite would do 1 million viewers unopposed since it went unopposed earlier this year and still couldn't get 1 million viewers.


Lmao, Raw can't even get 1.7 mil unopposed. No one would be switching from Dynamite to Raw, not one living breathing soul. The show is awful and people are tuning out to the tune of hundreds of thousands month by month. No one is going to abandon watching a show they like to watch Raw. The show that is in freefall right now is Raw, not AEW. They've bled over 3 million viewers in the last 6 years. They had triple the audience in 2014 than they have now. It's over.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Meh. AEW has lost half their audience since they debuted in October, less than a full year ago. Started out with 1.4 million watching, and have been down to 6-700K these last several months. That's half the audience in about 9 months. And thats without competition.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> keep crying.Raw has not been able to get over 1.7 million viewers since they started over pushing Banks and Bayley.


You’re the one who keeps bitching and moaning about both those women on a weekly basis. If anything, you’re the pool soul who’s actually crying  

Honestly, it’d be pretty damn amusing if they keep pushing Sasha Banks and Bayley just to spite you 

Anyway, they’d still get record-low ratings no matter who they push.

Hell, they were even getting record low numbers last summer, so once again you’re completely wrong about what’s actually tanking the ratings; which isn’t a surprise at this point considering your shitty posts


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Kentucky34 said:


> Then neither will AEW.
> 
> AEW is brand new and fresh. They should be killing WWE's numbers really. Instead they get killed every week.


No way, it should take AEW 7-10 years to get to there. They have to build their fanbase, it takes time, you add generations every 10-20 years.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The XL 2 said:


> Lmao, Raw can't even get 1.7 mil unopposed. No one would be switching from Dynamite to Raw, not one living breathing soul. The show is awful and people are tuning out to the tune of hundreds of thousands month by month. No one is going to abandon watching a show they like to watch Raw. The show that is in freefall right now is Raw, not AEW. They've bled over 3 million viewers in the last 6 years. They had triple the audience in 2014 than they have now. It's over.


Its still pulling 1.6 million viewers right now and MOST of Dynamite's viewers will be watching Raw over Dynamite just like most TNA's viewers watched Raw over Impact. The samething would happen with AEW but only it'd be way worse for AEW because they'd struggle to get 300,000 viewers if they even get that. Ok lets look numbers real quick Dynamite went from 1.4 million viewers to an average of 777,000 viewers which means they've lost 40% of their viewers in 9 months and thats also not mentioning how they've lost 58% of their ratings in 9 months as well. It went from a 0.68 rating down to an average rating of 0.27 so Dynamite has ran off most of its audience in RECORD time.


----------



## Ozell Gray

TKO Wrestling said:


> No way, it should take AEW 7-10 years to get to there. They have to build their fanbase, it takes time, you add generations every 10-20 years.


AEW will never "get there" though so you should stop living in this fantasy world where AEW will grow and compete with WWE when thats simply never going to happen.


----------



## The XL 2

Ozell Gray said:


> Its still pulling 1.6 million viewers right now and MOST of Dynamite's viewers will be watching Raw over Dynamite just like most TNA's viewers watched Raw over Impact. The samething would happen with AEW but only it'd be way worse for AEW because they'd struggle to get 300,000 viewers if they even get that. Ok lets look numbers real quick Dynamite went from 1.4 million viewers to an average of 777,000 viewers which means they've lost 40% of their viewers in 9 months and thats also not mentioning how they've lost 58% of their ratings in 9 months as well. It went from a 0.68 rating down to an average rating of 0.27 so Dynamite has ran off most of its audience in RECORD time.


Raw beating Impact was a very different situation. They had a very stable and loyal fanbase. That is not the case right now.

And you're manipulating numbers, they had 1.4 mil viewers for one show, it's not as if that was their core audience.


----------



## rbl85

Balor fan said:


> Funny part is the Drew match and Sasha match has the highest amount of views on YouTube. Drew videos always do millions of views every week. Maybe people are just not watching 3 hrs of this shit on tv and going straight to YouTube instead. I don't know


India


----------



## The XL 2

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW will never "get there" though so you should stop living in this fantasy world where AEW will grow and compete with WWE when thats simply never going to happen.


Of course they're going to be able to compete with WWE. Even if they don't continue to grow they're going to be competitive with WWE. Raw will be under 1 mil by the end of the year and Smackdown won't be far behind.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> Meh. AEW has lost half their audience since they debuted in October, less than a full year ago. Started out with 1.4 million watching, and have been down to 6-700K these last several months. That's half the audience in about 9 months. *And thats without competition.*


Strange i thought NXT was on the same night and at the same time.


----------



## RainmakerV2

When does Drew start to eat the blame for some of this?


----------



## RT1981

Showstopper said:


> The NBA might very well destroy NXT and AEW on Wednesday nights. I know the plan is for the NFL season to succeed, but that is the sport with the most physical contact, so I don't know how that season goes forward if MLB is having trouble already. Should be interesting.


the NBA will take care of this sinking ship and if by somehow the NFL does play the NFL will finish whats left of them off.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DammitChrist said:


> You’re the one who keeps bitching and moaning about both those women on a weekly basis. If anything, you’re the pool soul who’s actually crying
> 
> Honestly, it’d be pretty damn amusing if they keep pushing Sasha Banks and Bayley just to spite you
> 
> Anyway, they’d still get record-low ratings no matter who they push.
> 
> Hell, they were even getting record low numbers last summer, so once again you’re completely wrong about what’s actually tanking the ratings; which isn’t a surprise at this point considering your shitty posts


*So I guess you guys can't read ratings, didn't actually watch the show, or don't remember sequences, but Sasha and Asuka ended 15 minutes into hour 3, which means everyone left when it ended. No one gives a fuck about the men's programs.*


----------



## Balor fan

RainmakerV2 said:


> When does Drew start to eat the blame for some of this?


Its not his fault really. Its just hard to reverse things so fast. They are doing Drew vs Orton. What else can they do?


----------



## Ozell Gray

The XL 2 said:


> Raw beating Impact was a very different situation. They had a very stable and loyal fanbase. That is not the case right now.
> 
> And you're manipulating numbers, they had 1.4 mil viewers for one show, it's not as if that was their core audience.


They still do have a very loyal and stable fanbase now and its completely the samething as Impact back then. It'd be Raw crushing Dynamite eadily but it'd be worse for them since they'd be pulling in record low viewership and tv ratings on TNT against Raw.

Thats not "manipulating" numbers. Thats a fact. They lost over 40% of their viewers since the first episode and 58% of their ratings.



The XL 2 said:


> Of course they're going to be able to compete with WWE. Even if they don't continue to grow they're going to be competitive with WWE. Raw will be under 1 mil by the end of the year and Smackdown won't be far behind.


No they won't ever be competitive with WWE so you AEW fans need to get that lala land nonsense out of your heads. Raw won't be under be 1 million viewers and if it does Dynamite will already have been cancelled by TNT before that'll ever happen. Smackdown is getting close to getting 2 million viewers now so your fantasy won't happen bud.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> Then neither will AEW.
> 
> AEW is brand new and fresh. They should be killing WWE's numbers really. Instead they get killed every week.


We’ll never know as WWE decided to be Eric Bischoff and put the show dedicated to their most loyal fan base up against it. And make no mistake...AEW could move three times and NXT would move with it. I’m only surprised that WWE hasn’t convinced USA to make NXT three hours as well.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Balor fan said:


> Its not his fault really. Its just hard to reverse things so fast. They are doing Drew vs Orton. What else can they do?



Im just saying. People are already talking about taking it off Lee because of NXTs ratings since he won and its been 2 weeks lol. Eventually the champ has to fall on the sword, covid or no covid.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Balor fan said:


> What else can they do?


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> You’re the one who keeps bitching and moaning about both those women on a weekly basis. If anything, you’re the pool soul who’s actually crying
> 
> Honestly, it’d be pretty damn amusing if they keep pushing Sasha Banks and Bayley just to spite you
> 
> Anyway, they’d still get record-low ratings no matter who they push.
> 
> Hell, they were even getting record low numbers last summer, so once again you’re completely wrong about what’s actually tanking the ratings; which isn’t a surprise at this point considering your shitty posts


yeah your boy Seth Rollins and his Bitch ran off one million viewers last year now sasha and bayley are going to finish the job.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> They still do have a very loyal and stable fanbase now and its completely the samething as Impact back then. It'd be Raw crushing Dynamite eadily but it'd be worse for them since they'd be pulling in record low viewership and tv ratings on TNT against Raw.
> 
> Thats not "manipulating" numbers. Thats a fact. They lost over 40% of their viewers since the first episode and 58% of their ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> No they won't ever be competitive with WWE so you AEW fans need to get that lala land nonsense out of your heads. Raw won't be under be 1 million viewers and if it does Dynamite will already have been cancelled by TNT before that'll ever happen. Smackdown is getting close to getting 2 million viewers now so your fantasy won't happen bud.


Ever is a really long time. I can remember a time when RAW pulled a 1.5 and 1.6 in successive weeks against Nitro in Dec 1996. It was their lowest rating ever and I felt sure that they would be cancelled. 15 months later their ratings were up 300% and they were beating Nitro.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rbl85 said:


> Strange i thought NXT was on the same night and at the same time.


I mean real competition, aka tv shows back from offseason and sports.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Seafort said:


> Ever is a really long time. I can remember a time when RAW pulled a 1.5 and 1.6 in successive weeks against Nitro in Dec 1996. It was their lowest rating ever and I felt sure that they would be cancelled. 15 months later their ratings were up 300% and they were beating Nitro.


Ever meaning it'll never happen and Dynamite isn't Nitro. Dynamite will never beat Raw in the tv rating nor in the viewership. Raw's viewership and tv ratings will go back up when they continue to push the young guys and make new stars.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seafort said:


> We’ll never know as WWE decided to be Eric Bischoff and put the show dedicated to their most loyal fan base up against it. And make no mistake...AEW could move three times and NXT would move with it. I’m only surprised that WWE hasn’t convinced USA to make NXT three hours as well.


NXT is not taking that many viewers off AEW.

AEW just doesn't draw. They don't have a major star like Seth.

WWE RAW is still number 1 in the demo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Did they advertise Sasha this time around @BOSS of Bel-Air
> 
> Another ALL TIME honor for your home girl to go with her "prestigious" world title she won via count out.


*All this means is everyone left after Sasha won the title because that was the real main event, but please continue to embarrass yourself when anyone who actually pays attention knows that her segments draw every week, and damn sure much more than your boy AJ Styles.*


----------



## Scholes18

No surprises about the last hour which has traditionally been their lowest anyway. I said this in the Raw thread that the main event was doomed 2 minutes into Raw. You supposedly have a title match and Randy goes out and calls out Drew for Summerslam, not even the “whoever’s champion after tonight”. Hell the commentators were talking about the Orton/Drew match while Ziggler had taken over.


----------



## rbl85

Showstopper said:


> I mean real competition, aka tv shows back from offseason and sports.


AEW did go against sports


----------



## The XL 2

Ozell Gray said:


> They still do have a very loyal and stable fanbase now and its completely the samething as Impact back then. It'd be Raw crushing Dynamite eadily but it'd be worse for them since they'd be pulling in record low viewership and tv ratings on TNT against Raw.
> 
> Thats not "manipulating" numbers. Thats a fact. They lost over 40% of their viewers since the first episode and 58% of their ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> No they won't ever be competitive with WWE so you AEW fans need to get that lala land nonsense out of your heads. Raw won't be under be 1 million viewers and if it does Dynamite will already have been cancelled by TNT before that'll ever happen. Smackdown is getting close to getting 2 million viewers now so your fantasy won't happen bud.


You're delusional. Raw and Smackdown lose viewership by the month with no end in sight.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> You're delusional. Raw and Smackdown lose viewership by the month with no end in sight.


RAW hasn't lost 50% of its viewership since last October. 

AEW has.


----------



## Ozell Gray

G


The XL 2 said:


> You're delusional. Raw and Smackdown lose viewership by the month with no end in sight.


Lol Dynamite loses more viewers percentage wise every month than Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> Sasha/Asuka was in the third hour.
> 
> It also had a finish where a world title changed hands on a count out.


it was between the 2nd/3rd hour time no?
Point being, Sasha/Asuka have a better retention rate when closing.

Doesn't matter anyways, they it's an average of 1.6m. So bad.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

If you enjoy the product, that should be the only thing that matters. The demo is consistent. Vince himself has said thar Covid has hurt them. RAW keeps drawing that strong key demo, they keep getting paid. Good for them.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> Ever meaning it'll never happen and Dynamite isn't Nitro. Dynamite will never beat Raw in the tv rating nor in the viewership. Raw's viewership and tv ratings will go back up when they continue to push the young guys and make new stars.


You mean stars they build up to be squashed by 50 somethings lol


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> yeah your boy Seth Rollins and his Bitch ran off one million viewers last year now sasha and bayley are going to finish the job.


Is your shtick to be this ignorant and delusional regarding the low ratings?

You’re just taking petty shots at wrestlers I enjoy, and blindly blaming them for “tanking” the declining viewership (ignoring the OBVIOUS fact that WWE has gradually lost viewers for several years long before any of the current top names started getting pushed).

You honestly can’t be this fucking daft  

Anyway, that’s fine. I don’t really need a response from you anymore. I already know that you’re one of the worst posters on here atm due to your short-sided vision. Please proceed to keep hopelessly blaming any of the individual talents for the low ratings. You shouldn’t be taken seriously by others anyway.

Thankfully, there’s plenty of folks here who DO realize that nothing in WWE seems to be working (in terms of saving the ratings). It’s definitely a company-related problem, and not an issue regarding the individual talents (since the results are still unimpressive no matter which wrestler gets showcased more).


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jheeze i thought it was just the AEW section obsessed with ratings. I think people have better things to do than watch 3 hours of wrestling with no crowd on a Monday night. Most people will catch bits they want to watch later. Its not that deep.

All this all time low nonsense is stupid considering the circumstances and the fact that TV ratings in general have been down year or year.


----------



## The XL 2

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW hasn't lost 50% of its viewership since last October.
> 
> AEW has.


They had one show that did that number, it's debut show, a lot of those fans were not core fans and just wanted to see what it was about. Raw has lost nearly 800K viewers since January. They'll be under 1 million come the new year. AEW will continue to do 700-800K as they usually do. AEW just had their highest viewership since March, Raw is in freefall with no end in sight.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> You mean stars they build up to be squashed by 50 somethings lol


No Imean build up the young guys to be this generation's stars not old guys.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> No Imean build up the young guys to be this generation's stars not old guys.


When did they last do this? Reigns, Rollins, Strowman, Balor, Owens, Wyatt are all in their 30's and have likely peaked. The serious approach to the women's division is still relatively new and a work in progress.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> When did they last do this? Reigns, Rollins, Strowman, Balor, Owens, Wyatt are all in their 30's and have likely peaked. The serious approach to the women's division is still relatively new and a work in progress.


Thats why they need to build up some more younger guys to get more interest in the company and boost viewership and tv ratings.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Noting is saving them. Not the men or women.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> NXT is not taking that many viewers off AEW.
> 
> AEW just doesn't draw. They don't have a major star like Seth.
> 
> WWE RAW is still number 1 in the demo.


Seth Rollins is Al Perez with better political backing and a consistent push. Your love for Rollins is fine, just like Sid was my favorite wrestler. But it doesn’t change their neither are the best in their business.

As for AEW, it’s an improbable argument as NXT has been up against them from week 1.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats why they need to build up some more younger guys to get more interest in the company and boost viewership and tv ratings.


Theoretically. But when they built up the 20 something Ruthless Aggression guys they had HHH, Rock, 'Taker, HBK, Benoit, Booker, Kane, Jericho, Angle, Guerrero - still in their 30's - to put them over. In addition to a platform with more viewers, audiences and more focus. 

Now their NXT guys are 30 somethings (Lee, Kross, Riddle) or people Vince won't get behind (Gargano, Cole). Plus the platform is flat and product is cold.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seafort said:


> Seth Rollins is Al Perez with better political backing and a consistent push. Your love for Rollins is fine, just like Sid was my favorite wrestler. But it doesn’t change their neither are the best in their business.
> 
> As for AEW, it’s an improbable argument as NXT has been up against them from week 1.


The most impressive numbers in recent weeks have come from Rollins.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Joe Gill said:


> Does anyone remember what the ratings were like when WWE signed their last tv deal for RAW? How much have the ratings decreased since then? Cord cutting + trash product.... I could see less than 1 million viewers for hour 3 in a year from now.


Raw averaged between 2.8 - 3.2 million viewers per week when they signed their last deal. Their total viewers are down around 50%, and their demos down over 60%. And this is comparing numbers right now. They will get worse. That 3rd hour drew 1.46 mils...just think what it will get when MNF is on.


----------



## MoxAsylum

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol and pushing who is gonna change things? McIntyre is the best they got.


That’s the issue they have nobody to push that’s any good


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ozell Gray said:


> Raw would still pull 1.7 million viewers easily while also taking Dynamite's viewers away and Dynamite sinking to 200 or 300,000 viewers.


This is what a retarded WWE mark looks like folks. Given their ratings, I'm shocked they still exist. Put these people in a museum.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> Theoretically. But when they built up the 20 something Ruthless Aggression guys they had HHH, Rock, 'Taker, HBK, Benoit, Booker, Kane, Jericho, Angle, Guerrero - still in their 30's - to put them over. In addition to a platform with more viewers, audiences and more focus.
> 
> Now their NXT guys are 30 somethings (Lee, Kross, Riddle) or people Vince won't get behind (Gargano, Cole). Plus the platform is flat and product is cold.


They can build up young guys with charisma and they'll see a boost in their tv ratings and viewership in the long run. They can build more of an audience if they put more investment into pushing the young guys.

Why would Vince McMahon push Gargano and Adam Cole? Those 2 guys will never draw a dime for WWE and plus they have 0 charisma. The product was cold back in the mid 90s with a smaller audience and they turned it around just like they can in ghis modern era.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Randy Lahey said:


> This is what a retarded WWE mark looks like folks. Given their ratings, I'm shocked they still exist. Put these people in a museum.


What a stupid comment. Ratings and viewership are 2 DIFFERENT things but Im not surprised though an AEW fan doesn't no that.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rozzop said:


> All thats left are the fans of the women.


And this is a good point. And it's why there's relatively little criticism here of the show. The WWE really is catering to their only audience left (fans of geeks and women), and that is a tiny tiny audience. Yet, one that still posts on forums like this.


----------



## DammitChrist

How does Johnny Gargano and Adam Cole have “zero charisma” when both men have managed to get crowds to react positively/loudly for them over the past few years?

If they have zero charisma (which they DON’T), then they’d keep coming out to crickets every single time they make their entrances.

Tamina and Alberto Del Rio are 2 good examples of charisma vacuums.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW hasn't lost 50% of its viewership since last October.
> 
> AEW has.


Look at any newly launched TV show...how much do ratings drop from the premiere episode to the last? Take the premiere episode of Lost, it had a huge opening. Generally tv shows drop from the premiere throughout the first season.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Getting smarks to cheer for you doesn't mean you have charisma. Bret Hart had 0 charisma and got cheered so using them getting cheered as an example of them having charisma isn't very smart. 

Gargano and Adam Cole will flop massively on Raw and Smackdown because casuals won't like them because they don't have charisma.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Meh. AEW has lost half their audience since they debuted in October, less than a full year ago. Started out with 1.4 million watching, and have been down to 6-700K these last several months. That's half the audience in about 9 months. And thats without competition.


Are you seriously going to compare AEW's premiere show, with the rest of their shows? If you are using that metric, the same thing happened to Smackdown. Smackdown on Fox drew 3.89 mils for it's premier. It now does 50% of that.

Are you going to compare Raw's current numbers to Raw 1000 too?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> it was between the 2nd/3rd hour time no?
> Point being, Sasha/Asuka have a better retention rate when closing.
> 
> Doesn't matter anyways, they it's an average of 1.6m. So bad.


*It started at 9:50 EST (9:40 if you count entrances before commercial break) and finished at 10:15 EST. The story here is no one gave a fuck to stay for Buddy Murphy and Drew/Ziggler.*


----------



## Not Lying

It's legit hilarious seeing all size queens over the years in this thread disappear, push bigger guys you'd hear! And the minute they put more focus with guys like Drew, Braun, Lashley, Orton, Show... Ratings *TANK. *

You can blame the women or smaller guys or whoever you want, but your argument holds no weight when guys you claim would draw tank the ratings worse than ever.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It started at 9:50 EST and finished at 10:15 EST. The story here is no one gave a fuck to stay for Buddy Murphy and Drew/Ziggler.*


I knew it lol. Had they main evented they would have had a much smaller drop, they strongly held the ratings before. Somehow the defacto biggest draw in the company is suddenly to blame because the rest of the group can't do their part.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dude, Bret Hart had a lot of charisma during his time.

He was one of the most popular wrestlers on the roster in the 90s, and he had a HUGE following in Canada for multiple decades; which wouldn’t be the case for someone who had “zero” charisma.

Having charisma means the ability for someone to inspire a group of people due to that individual’s charm (which INCLUDES getting them to REACT favorably).

That describes Bret perfectly. The same goes for Gargano and Cole to a lesser extent since they’re also able to get multiple crowds to care about them positively.

Edit:

For the record, barely anyone seems to care about the SHOW itself. None of this is on Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler, or Murphy.

You know that you can give the women credit without having to drag down any other names unnecessarily. It’s not like anyone is claiming that those names are big TV draws.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> It's legit hilarious seeing all size queens over the years in this thread disappear, push bigger guys you'd hear! And the minute they put more focus with guys like Drew, Braun, Lashley, Orton, Show... Ratings *TANK. *
> 
> You can blame the women or smaller guys or whoever you want, but your argument holds no weight when guys you claim would draw tank the ratings worse than ever.


What did Raw do before the Women's Revolution began?
What does it do now?

It's fairly simple to look who they've pushed for 4 years, and see the results.


----------



## Kentucky34

Ozell Gray said:


> Getting smarks to cheer for you doesn't mean you have charisma. Bret Hart had 0 charisma and got cheered so using them getting cheered as an example of them having charisma isn't very smart.
> 
> Gargano and Adam Cole will flop massively on Raw and Smackdown because casuals won't like them because they don't have charisma.


Gargano would draw fine if booked right.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Are you seriously going to compare AEW's premiere show, with the rest of their shows? If you are using that metric, the same thing happened to Smackdown. Smackdown on Fox drew 3.89 mils for it's premier. It now does 50% of that.
> 
> Are you going to compare Raw's current numbers to Raw 1000 too?


That makes them look even worse. They hit that number once, and haven't come close since.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Bret Hart didn't have any charisma and the WWF's business collapsed while he was the top guy. It collapsed because he couldn't draw worth nothing because he had no charisma. It took WWF pushing guys like Steve Austin and The Rock to get business booming again because they had charisma, hence why people wanted to see them not Bret Hart. 

I garauntee Gargano and Adam Cole won't draw on the main roster and will massively. 



Kentucky34 said:


> Gargano would draw fine if booked right.


Nope they need charismatic guys that can draw not some one that only smarks care about. Casuals don't care about how many so-called "great matches" hes had. They care about if he can entertain them through his promo ability.


----------



## Not Lying

Randy Lahey said:


> What did Raw do before the Women's Revolution began?
> What does it do now?
> 
> It's fairly simple to look who they've pushed for 4 years, and see the results.


Ever heard of the phrase correlation does not mean causation? I'm sure you haven't only one dimensional idiots who can't think for themselves sees two numbers and jump to a baseless conclusion. 

I'mn not gona waste a lot of time to educate your ass so let me tell you real quick. 
A lot changed since 2014, which was actually the year ratings began dropping *at a higher rate (almost 15% year on year) (so even the correlation you were trying to make is weak)*. *A full year *before the women's revolution began. 

The trend continued with this high rate over the next several years which included the departure of 10+ years FOTC John Cena, meaningless main event storylines with Brock Lesnar being an absent champion for 3-4 years YET GEEKS claim it's best for business to keep it special and Lesnar is a Draw.. LMAO. 
Then you have the failed coronations of Reigns. 
The terrible product and on off pushes.

You want to prove to me the women were the cause of the ratings fall? 

then show me how in 2015-2016 that WOMEN segments were losing viewers on a bigger average than the men. Ok, if you can't get me this data, then shut the fuck up you presumptuous hating geek. 
I know for a fact many segments did draw between the HW, and they were getting some of the biggest reactions on the show male or female.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> It's legit hilarious seeing all size queens over the years in this thread disappear, push bigger guys you'd hear! And the minute they put more focus with guys like Drew, Braun, Lashley, Orton, Show... Ratings *TANK. *
> 
> You can blame the women or smaller guys or whoever you want, but your argument holds no weight when guys you claim would draw tank the ratings worse than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it lol. Had they main evented they would have had a much smaller drop, they strongly held the ratings before. Somehow the defacto biggest draw in the company is suddenly to blame because the rest of the group can't do their part.


*Seriously, how many consecutive weeks does Sasha need to increase numbers DURING HER SEGMENTS before they stop embarassing themselves? *


----------



## DammitChrist

I’m pretty sure that you’re confusing CHARISMA with DRAWING ABILITY.

Again, listening to multiple crowds go wild and crazy for Bret throughout his run as a top guy back in the 90s demonstrates how charismatic he really was. He was able to connect really well with those large group of fans.

You can still be charismatic, but not be a big TV draw. Otherwise, at least 95% of every wrestler who existed would have “no charisma” using your definition.


----------



## 304418

I will say I’m quite surprised that neither USA Network nor WWE have pushed to remove the third hour of Raw to help make the weekly numbers look better. Considering the damage the third hour did to Nitro. Wonder what it would take them to realize that. The numbers have just gotten worse and worse since the third hour was added in 2012 and there are no signs of stopping.



Ozell Gray said:


> Bret Hart didn't have any charisma and the WWF's business collapsed while he was the top guy. It collapsed because he couldn't draw worth nothing because he had no charisma. It took WWF pushing guys like Steve Austin and The Rock to get business booming again because they had charisma, hence why people wanted to see them not Bret Hart.


Bret had charisma. If he had no charisma Austin wouldn’t have worked with him.


----------



## Ozell Gray

And again getting people to cheer for you ISN'T charisma. Charisma is your personality which Bret Hart NEVER had hence why he couldn't draw and WWF were tanking with him as the top guy.

Most wrestlers in existence didn't have charisma.


Verbatim17 said:


> I will say I’m quite surprised that neither USA Network nor WWE have pushed to remove the third hour of Raw to help make the weekly numbers look better. Considering the damage the third hour did to Nitro. Wonder what it would take them to realize that. The numbers have just gotten worse and worse since the third hour was added in 2012 and there are no signs of stopping.
> 
> 
> 
> Bret had charisma. If he had no charisma Austin wouldn’t have worked with him.


Bret Hart had no charisma and Steve Austin worked with him before he became a star.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Won't be long until WWE bring back David Flair, he's the last Attitude Era star they have left.



the_flock said:


> Here's a list of total viewers lost or gained during the younger stars' segments on TV in 1999.
> 
> David Flair +7,184,232











Did WCW push the right stars in 99/00?


It's often been said that WCW had a proverbial glass ceiling and certain stars who should have been pushed to the moon never had a chance. Many people say its due to them not creating enough new stars that contributed to their downfall. Here's a list of total viewers lost or gained during the...




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## Kentucky34

Showstopper said:


> That makes them look even worse. They hit that number once, and haven't come close since.


AEW fans are the worst.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> And again getting people to cheer for you ISN'T charisma. Charisma is your personality which Bret Hart NEVER had hence *why he couldn't draw and WWF were tanking with him as the top guy*.
> 
> Most wrestlers in existence didn't have charisma.
> 
> 
> Bret Hart had no charisma and *Steve Austin worked with him before he became a star.*


WWF Raw had approximately double the viewers back then than it does now and 1 million fans attending their shows every year (similar number to 2019). At that point in time they had serious competition from WCW in terms of live events and PPV. 

Piper and Flair put him over.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> WWF Raw had approximately double the viewers back then than it does now and 1 million fans attending their shows every year (similar number to 2019). At that point in time they had serious competition from WCW in terms of live events and PPV.
> 
> Piper and Flair put him over.


And the viewership dropped with him on top and the WWF were on the verge of bankruptcy with him as the top guy. Attendance fell off of a cliff with him as the top guy as well. WrestleMania 12 and WrestleMania 13 had extremely low attendance. They had competition withnWCW but again that wouldn't have mattered if Bret Hart was a draw which he wasn't. They had competition from WCW when Steve Austin and The Rock were the top guys but it didn't matter because those guys actually drew money and viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Verbatim17 said:


> I will say I’m quite surprised that neither USA Network nor WWE have pushed to remove the third hour of Raw to help make the weekly numbers look better. Considering the damage the third hour did to Nitro. Wonder what it would take them to realize that. The numbers have just gotten worse and worse since the third hour was added in 2012 and there are no signs of stopping.


*The ad revenue is too good regardless of the rating. Companies still pay big money for those slots.*


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

People that bring up AEW constantly keeps forgetting that they have only been on TV for almost a year and they are still brand new to America TV. While, Raw has been on the air for decades and in the last few years the ratings has dropped a lot. It has to do with bad booking, bad storylines, storylines that make no sense, plot holes and using talent way too many times during the week since a few stars are out.


----------



## Seafort

Verbatim17 said:


> I will say I’m quite surprised that neither USA Network nor WWE have pushed to remove the third hour of Raw to help make the weekly numbers look better. Considering the damage the third hour did to Nitro. Wonder what it would take them to realize that. The numbers have just gotten worse and worse since the third hour was added in 2012 and there are no signs of stopping.
> 
> 
> 
> Bret had charisma. If he had no charisma Austin wouldn’t have worked with him.


Business collapsed because almost ALL of WWE’s upper tier stars departed in 1992 without passing the torch. Imagine how much it would have meant if Hart had beaten Warrior or Hogan on PPV? Without that win, Hart lacked the credibility he desperately needed. In 1992 WWE lost Hogan, Warrior, Bulldog, Sid, Piper, Roberts, LOD, Hercules, Neidhart, Warlord, Barbarian, and Snuka. They were replaced with Yokozuna, Razor Ramon, Papa Shango, Headshrinkers. Max Moon, and Tatanka. Some of these names are legends now like Ramon and Yoko. Back then however they were complete unknowns (Tatanka, Yokozuna) or lesser WCW competitors (Samoan Swat Team, Diamond Studd). Much of the Golden Era was built off of a model where WWE signed known stars from other promotions. That ability ended in 1991...outside of a handful in WCW there were no more unsigned stars to pull in.

Look at the WWE house show business by month. It collapses after WrestleMania VIII. It had nothing to do with Hart. It had everything to do with Hogan, Piper, Roberts, and Sid all leaving in April.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> And the viewership dropped with him on top and the WWF were on the verge of bankruptcy with him as the top guy. Attendance fell off of a cliff with him as the top guy as well. WrestleMania 12 and WrestleMania 13 had extremely low attendance. They had competition withnWCW but again that wouldn't have mattered if Bret Hart was a draw which he wasn't. They had competition from WCW when Steve Austin and The Rock were the top guys but it didn't matter because those guys actually drew money and viewers.


I’m not a huge Bret Hart fan, outside of his 1997 heel run. That said, WWE really, really needed him in 1993-1995 for the Canadian and international house show markets. Without him, WWE either might have gone bankrupt orVince would have had to loan considerably more money to his own company.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> Gargano would draw fine if booked right.


Sure...make him WWE’s version of college Johnny Manziel, and Johnny Wrestling is a viable charCter.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Seafort said:


> I’m not a huge Bret Hart fan, outside of his 1997 heel run. That said, WWE really, really needed him in 1993-1995 for the Canadian and international house show markets. Without him, WWE either might have gone bankrupt orVince would have had to loan considerably more money to his own company.


Bret Hart only drew attendance in Canada but everywhere else he couldn't draw flies, and not to mention WWF were losing viewers and ratings and attendamce was declin ing heavily with him as the top guy. WWF were about to be bankrupted with him as the top guy, hence why Vince regretted the 20 year deal and told Bret to sign with WCW because they'll give him more money.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> Bret Hart only drew attendance in Canada but everywhere else he couldn't draw flies, and not to mention WWF were losing viewers and ratings and attendamce was declin ing heavily with him as the top guy. WWF were about to be bankrupted with him as the top guy, hence why Vince regretted the 20 year deal and told Bret to sign with WCW because they'll give him more money.


It’s more complicated than that.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Seafort said:


> It’s more complicated than that.


How so?


----------



## Kentucky34

Seafort said:


> Sure...make him WWE’s version of college Johnny Manziel, and Johnny Wrestling is a viable charCter.


Agreed


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> How so?


Drug allegations
Sex allegations
Losing the network deal for SNME
An 80's formula that felt outdated in the 90's
A wave of one dimensional short lived gimmicks
Lex Express and Diesel Power not catching on 
WCW becoming more viable with sponsors after signing Flair, Hogan and Savage


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> How so?


Perhaps the better word is murkier.

WWE was in financial peril, but it wasn’t in September 1997. It was in June. The buys for WM13 yielded a flop, precisely at a time where WWE was ramping up their spending in talent and production costs. By September however the situation had improved, enough that Vince telling Bret he was downscaling to a Northeastern based regional promotion was simply subterfuge.

Two factors were instead at play:

1) Matters had come to a head with HBK and Bret, and Vince May have decided that in order to retain Michaels long term Bret had to go.
2) Vince entered very secretive negotiations with Hulk Hogan in August 1997 for a 1998 return. Regardless of WWE’s improving financial state, signing Hogan while retaining Bret Hart was not practical for a number of reasons. Vince May have encouraged Bret to depart to free up salary space for Hogan. That ultimately failed, but Hart’s departure did allow Vince to make an unsuccessful (750K per year) offer in December to the Ultimate Warrior, and finally sign Mike Tyson.


----------



## BPG

the last episodes held together, were consistent, the story moves forward and 2 championship matches. I don'tt understand such low results ...


----------



## kingfrass44

Dark Emperor said:


> All this all time low nonsense is stupid considering the circumstances and the fact that TV ratings in general have been down year or year.


Where is the source and just guesses


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> Drug allegations
> Sex allegations
> Losing the network deal for SNME
> An 80's formula that felt outdated in the 90's
> A wave of one dimensional short lived gimmicks
> Lex Express and Diesel Power not catching on
> WCW becoming more viable with sponsors after signing Flair, Hogan and Savage


If Bret Hart was such a draw non of that would've mattered because people would have tuned in to see him and bought tickets at shows to see him if he was a draw but they didn't because he wasn't a draw. WWF's business only started picking up after they started pushing Steve Austin and The Rock which were 2 charismatic guys who carried the company to soaring ratings and viewership. 



Seafort said:


> Perhaps the better word is murkier.
> 
> WWE was in financial peril, but it wasn’t in September 1997. It was in June. The buys for WM13 yielded a flop, precisely at a time where WWE was ramping up their spending in talent and production costs. By September however the situation had improved, enough that Vince telling Bret he was downscaling to a Northeastern based regional promotion was simply subterfuge.
> 
> Two factors were instead at play:
> 
> 1) Matters had come to a head with HBK and Bret, and Vince May have decided that in order to retain Michaels long term Bret had to go.
> 2) Vince entered very secretive negotiations with Hulk Hogan in August 1997 for a 1998 return. Regardless of WWE’s improving financial state, signing Hogan while retaining Bret Hart was not practical for a number of reasons. Vince May have encouraged Bret to depart to free up salary space for Hogan. That ultimately failed, but Hart’s departure did allow Vince to make an unsuccessful (750K per year) offer in December to the Ultimate Warrior, and finally sign Mike Tyson.


Thats not true at all. WWF were about to go bankrupt hence why Vince regretted giving Bret Hart that 20 year contract deal. 










And to top it off Bret Hart new that and didn't want to go to WCW but he had no other choice since WWF couldn't pay him that salary. 

Bret Hart's departure allowed WWF to pick up business wise and see attendance ratings soar that they didn't see in years, plus Bret Hart wasn't going to be a focus point in WWF's plan during the "attitude era" so that was another reason Vince McMahon wanted him to sign with WCW.


----------



## 304418

Ozell Gray said:


> And again getting people to cheer for you ISN'T charisma. Charisma is your personality which Bret Hart NEVER had hence why he couldn't draw and WWF were tanking with him as the top guy.
> 
> Most wrestlers in existence didn't have charisma.
> 
> 
> Bret Hart had no charisma and Steve Austin worked with him before he became a star.


His charisma was being the clean, honourable, all around good guy. Which was perfect for a heel-turning-antihero in Steve Austin. In a climate that was sick of traditional good guy vs bad guy dynamics.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Verbatim17 said:


> His charisma was being the clean, honourable, all around good guy. Which was perfect for a heel-turning-antihero in Steve Austin. In a climate that was sick of traditional good guy vs bad guy dynamics.


That was his character not charisma. Charisma is oersonality which Bret Hart never showed. The Steve Austin "anti-hero" was sparked by his storyline with Vince McMahon after Bret Hart had already left to go to WCW.


----------



## 304418

Ozell Gray said:


> That was his character not charisma. Charisma is oersonality which Bret Hart never showed. The Steve Austin "anti-hero" was sparked by his storyline with Vince McMahon after Bret Hart had already left to go to WCW.


It’s clear you have never watched WWF from late 1996 straight though 1997. Otherwise you would know that your claims of Bret Hart not having any personality, and the spark of Austin being an antihero being against McMahon, are bullshit.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Verbatim17 said:


> It’s clear you have never watched WWF from late 1996 straight though 1997. Otherwise you would know that your claims of Bret Hart not having any personality, and the spark of Austin being an antihero being against McMahon, are bullshit.


I actually have and its evident he had no personality because if he did then he would've been a drawn which he wasn't. 🤣 Ok here you troll 










What happened? I thought I was wrong. Yeah you have no leg to stand on.


----------



## fabi1982

And even if they fall below todays ratings, as long as they are in the top 3 for the "demo" each week, why should anyone remove them from that day or even completely kicking them? 

It is like "here I give you 5 dollars" and the other be like "no I just want 2 dollars". All what we can see from the decline in ratings but still being top 3 in the demo is, that the whole viewership declines and there is nothing WWE can do about it and nothing the networks are forcing WWE to do anything about. 

But again I dont see the "WWE haters" understand that, as they just go for blind hate, because maybe it makes their day better or whatever reason they have.


----------



## Chasingamymatt

Ozell Gray said:


> I actually have and its evident he had no personality because if he did then he would've been a drawn which he wasn't. 🤣 Ok here you troll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened? I thought I was wrong. Yeah you have no leg to stand on.


You are actually incorrect mate. Bret was the largest international draw outside of the US between 1993-1997 if you check the tour info for Germany/UK/South Africa ect.

And to say he didnt draw in the US is also factually incorrect. When he took the belt from Nash after his long run ratings and house shows went up. When he took the belt at the start of '97 after Shawn and Sid flipped it ,guess what ratings and house show attendence went up. Survivor series 96 where he and Austin was the biggest built match did the best WWF buy rate of the year. 

He was the top merch seller by metrics in the company between 1994-1996. The US-Canada feud in '97 did the best house shows/ratings WWF had done for quite some time when they were crossin over the border each week. But yes he wasnt a draw.


----------



## Not Lying

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Seriously, how many consecutive weeks does Sasha need to increase numbers DURING HER SEGMENTS before they stop embarassing themselves? *


Looking more closely at the numbers and the drop between h2 and h3 included a 100k female drop when u compare ages 12-34 women, so It's not far fetched to assume the 100k younged women tuned out after Sasha/Asuka.
Clearly having a good women's division actually can improve young female demo viewership.


----------



## Seafort

Ozell Gray said:


> If Bret Hart was such a draw non of that would've mattered because people would have tuned in to see him and bought tickets at shows to see him if he was a draw but they didn't because he wasn't a draw. WWF's business only started picking up after they started pushing Steve Austin and The Rock which were 2 charismatic guys who carried the company to soaring ratings and viewership.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not true at all. WWF were about to go bankrupt hence why Vince regretted giving Bret Hart that 20 year contract deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to top it off Bret Hart new that and didn't want to go to WCW but he had no other choice since WWF couldn't pay him that salary.
> 
> Bret Hart's departure allowed WWF to pick up business wise and see attendance ratings soar that they didn't see in years, plus Bret Hart wasn't going to be a focus point in WWF's plan during the "attitude era" so that was another reason Vince McMahon wanted him to sign with WCW.


It is true, or very close to it. WWE was in financial peril at one point in 1997, but the latest information out there (including the recent book Titan Screwed) places that period in June. Vince made his play to renegotiate Bret’s deal at the Sep RAW in MSG. He began negotiations with Hogan in August.

that doesn’t mean you are wrong - I used to believe the Sep financial peril story and did so until this summer. At one point Bret’s contract was a huge burden for him, but more importantly it guaranteed salary inflation for Shawn and Taker at a time of business uncertainty. Vince told Hall that he could not match WCW’s deal in the spring of 1996 for that very reason, yet felt cornered enough in Oct 1996 to do that very thing.


----------



## llj

This show is so irrelevant that most of the conversation in here is debating whether or not Bret Hart had charisma.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Looking more closely at the numbers and the drop between h2 and h3 included a 100k female drop when u compare ages 12-34 women, so It's not far fetched to assume the 100k younged women tuned out after Sasha/Asuka.
> Clearly having a good women's division actually can improve young female demo viewership.


*I didn't even need to look at a full breakdown to know that because it seemed so obvious, but clowns couldn't wait to blame Sasha when they read the record low 3rd hour headline.*


----------



## Seafort

llj said:


> This show is so irrelevant that most of the conversation in here is debating whether or not Bret Hart had charisma.


True. Probably by December we’ll have debates over who had the best workrate...Lou Thesz or Wipper Bill Watson.


----------



## llj

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I didn't even need to look at a full breakdown to know that because it seemed so obvious, but clowns couldn't wait to blame Sasha when they read the record low 3rd hour headline.*


Doesn't matter, this show is headed for sub 1.5 million totals soon enough regardless of whether or not one person can move the needle by a piddly 10k or not. At that point, I don't envy whomever is champion.

Autumn is gonna be UGLY. A bloodbath. Good luck to the champions of the fall period.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> If Bret Hart was such a draw non of that would've mattered because people would have tuned in to see him and bought tickets at shows to see him if he was a draw but they didn't because he wasn't a draw. WWF's business only started picking up after they started pushing Steve Austin and The Rock which were 2 charismatic guys who carried the company to soaring ratings and viewership.


And it took a company wide change in format to TV-14 and Attitude marketing blitz to help Austin and Rock become household names...

July 1993 to March 1994 was Lex Luger. November 1994 to October 1995 was Diesel. Bret was the fall back guy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

llj said:


> Doesn't matter, this show is headed for sub 1.5 million totals soon enough regardless of whether or not one person can move the needle by a piddly 10k or not. At that point, I don't envy whomever is champion.
> 
> Autumn is gonna be UGLY. A bloodbath. Good luck to the champions of the fall period.


*She's increased viewers by 60 to 200,000 people on various occasions. She's outdrawn all of the men on all 3 shows since winning the tag titles. Just stop.*


----------



## llj

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *She's increased viewers by 60 to 200,000 people on various occasions. She's outdrawn all of the men on all 3 shows since winning the tag titles. Just stop.*


5 months ago 2 million viewers was the norm. Now we're arguing about whether or not someone can hold onto 1.6m.

You stop.

Nobody is making a difference. But ultimately, it doesn't matter. All I have to do is wait. Have fun talking about whomever is a draw with the sub 1.5m viewer averages come October and November.


----------



## Prosper

llj said:


> Doesn't matter, this show is headed for sub 1.5 million totals soon enough regardless of whether or not one person can move the needle by a piddly 10k or not. At that point, I don't envy whomever is champion.
> 
> Autumn is gonna be UGLY. A bloodbath. Good luck to the champions of the fall period.


If Randy Orton is champion come Fall, will WWE blame him for the eventual 1.1 ratings like they seem to have blamed others in the past?


----------



## llj

prosperwithdeen post: 78323688 said:


> If Randy Orton is champion come Fall, will WWE blame him for the eventual 1.1 ratings like they seem to have blamed others in the past?


WWE hasn't blamed anyone as far as I can see. It's the fans who are blaming people. I'm saying it doesn't even matter anymore. From top to bottom the brand is too damaged for anyone to make a difference. This isn't about who has been champion, it's just years upon years of creating an unappealing product that has turned away viewers and losing their trust.

Once a big company loses the trust of their consumers, it's a hard road trying to get it back, if ever.


----------



## Chasingamymatt

llj said:


> WWE hasn't blamed anyone as far as I can see. It's the fans who are blaming people. I'm saying it doesn't even matter anymore. From top to bottom the brand is too damaged for anyone to make a difference. This isn't about who has been champion, it's just years upon years of creating an unappealing product that has turned away viewers and losing their trust.
> 
> Once a big company loses the trust of their consumers, it's a hard road trying to get it back, if ever.


I totally agree with you. Its very WCW summer 1999 onwards. The big names have been brought back and burnt through and dont move the needle, the other guys who should have been elevated have been given the 50/50 treatment and flipped between face/heel that no one cares, ratings are tumbling. Ahh its all so familiar. I'm not hopeful for the future, the company is dead cold, even if say a Rock or Austin or HBK came back full time they wouldnt move the ratings after the 1st month because the entire roster has 0 credibility. Say Orton wins at SS, whats next? whos a decent face to go against, say Drew wins, same issue but in reverse. Baad Bad times to be a shareholder.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

llj said:


> 5 months ago 2 million viewers was the norm. Now we're arguing about whether or not someone can hold onto 1.6m.
> 
> You stop.
> 
> Nobody is making a difference. But ultimately, it doesn't matter. All I have to do is wait. Have fun talking about whomever is a draw with the sub 1.5m viewer averages come October and November.


*No, I won't stop when you make completely wrong claims that she only draws 10,000 viewers to push your bullshit agenda. *


----------



## CtrlAltDel

Bret Hart still has people taking about him and it’s about things that happened two decades ago.


----------



## Prosper

llj said:


> WWE hasn't blamed anyone as far as I can see. It's the fans who are blaming people. I'm saying it doesn't even matter anymore. From top to bottom the brand is too damaged for anyone to make a difference. This isn't about who has been champion, it's just years upon years of creating an unappealing product that has turned away viewers and losing their trust.
> 
> Once a big company loses the trust of their consumers, it's a hard road trying to get it back, if ever.


They blamed CM Punk for low ratings back when he was WWE Champion. (Not on his hottest pipe bomb run but on an earlier run) Vince also recently told shareholders that Lesnar not being on the show is why ratings were down, thereby burying his whole roster as non-draws lol.

But yeah, things are so far gone that good booking won’t even help. They need a complete restructuring from the ground up and no single talent will turn things around. There is nothing they can do right now to get out of this hole. Goldberg can still pop a rating though so they can call him if they want to get a 1.7 one week. But what about the following weeks lol? Truly scary times for advertisers and shareholders.


----------



## Seafort

llj said:


> Doesn't matter, this show is headed for sub 1.5 million totals soon enough regardless of whether or not one person can move the needle by a piddly 10k or not. At that point, I don't envy whomever is champion.
> 
> Autumn is gonna be UGLY. A bloodbath. Good luck to the champions of the fall period.


The challenge for WWE is that absent real crowds it is going to be really, really difficult to build new stars. And the pandemic caught them right in the midst of what was probably a 2 year rebuild mode. They’re essentially frozen in place.


----------



## Seafort

Chasingamymatt said:


> I totally agree with you. Its very WCW summer 1999 onwards. The big names have been brought back and burnt through and dont move the needle, the other guys who should have been elevated have been given the 50/50 treatment and flipped between face/heel that no one cares, ratings are tumbling. Ahh its all so familiar. I'm not hopeful for the future, the company is dead cold, even if say a Rock or Austin or HBK came back full time they wouldnt move the ratings after the 1st month because the entire roster has 0 credibility. Say Orton wins at SS, whats next? whos a decent face to go against, say Drew wins, same issue but in reverse. Baad Bad times to be a shareholder.


Exactly. How do you build your next top babyface without any organic fan reaction? Its not impossible, but very difficult.

What is truly needed is a complete rethink on how characters are created and how the show is presented.


----------



## llj

Seafort said:


> The challenge for WWE is that absent real crowds it is going to be really, really difficult to build new stars. And the pandemic caught them right in the midst of what was probably a 2 year rebuild mode. They’re essentially frozen in place.


Even with Becky, they lost a million viewers in ONE year during her time as the top girl. She's the best "star" they made in the last 3 years and she couldn't stop the bleeding one iota. That shows there's a bigger problem than just star making, it means that whatever they've been doing lately, is happening in a vacuum. Why is this? Because consumers have just tuned out. It's kinda like the con man who suddenly goes straight for a year. They'll always be the con man in everyone else's eyes. One year of making a big star won't change anything at this point.


----------



## Seafort

llj said:


> WWE hasn't blamed anyone as far as I can see. It's the fans who are blaming people. I'm saying it doesn't even matter anymore. From top to bottom the brand is too damaged for anyone to make a difference. This isn't about who has been champion, it's just years upon years of creating an unappealing product that has turned away viewers and losing their trust.
> 
> Once a big company loses the trust of their consumers, it's a hard road trying to get it back, if ever.


There are other factors, but a good analogy to that statement is the Video Game Crash of 1983. It nearly ended the industry, and was spearheaded by two disastrous major releases by Atari that shook the confidence of consumers. Atari was sold off and became a minor player for the remainder of its existence.


----------



## llj

Seafort said:


> There are other factors, but a good analogy to that statement is the Video Game Crash of 1983. It nearly ended the industry, and was spearheaded by two disastrous major releases by Atari that shook the confidence of consumers. Atari was sold off and became a minor player for the remainder of its existence.


True, there are other comparisons as well--generally large established companies tend to decline when there is a distinct lack of innovation for too long a period, so that the product gets stale. Since nobody else has really stepped up and had the money, resources and risk taking to do something different from the WWE, it's not getting killed by an up and comer (AEW is fine, but they aren't reinventing wrestling) the result is really just a gradual decline for the industry as a whole.


----------



## llj

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *No, I won't stop when you make completely wrong claims that she only draws 10,000 viewers to push your bullshit agenda. *


When did I say she only drew 10k? I'm just saying that most people in the WWE really don't make a difference in their segments by much more than an extra 10-40k most weeks. Including Sasha.

But whatever. Have fun talking "draws" as we're doing sub TNA numbers now. Hopefully for your arguments Sasha will still be the highest rated segments when RAW is doing 900k a week a year from now.


----------



## llj

fabi1982 said:


> And even if they fall below todays ratings, as long as they are in the top 3 for the "demo" each week, why should anyone remove them from that day or even completely kicking them?.


But only 1 hour makes it consistently into the top 3 for demo now for a bunch of wrestling shows. It used to be the WWE had 1,2,3 locked up on Mondays, now it's something like 3, 5 and 7. Slowly but surely even their demo rating is slipping.

RAW is getting thwapped by 90 day fiance every week, which never would have happened even 5 years ago.

Not only does 90 Day Fiance kickass in the demos of their females WAY more than WWE does with males, it also hits 3m a week.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> There are other factors, but a good analogy to that statement is the Video Game Crash of 1983. It nearly ended the industry, and was spearheaded by two disastrous major releases by Atari that shook the confidence of consumers. Atari was sold off and became a minor player for the remainder of its existence.


That's a good comparison, but at the same time Atari was more of a startup. There was Cannon Group, which had success in the 1980's before filing for bankruptcy in the 1990's. Like Atari both a success and victim of its era. There was Hammer Film Productions, which boomed in the 50's and 60's and then got left behind by the edgy horror movies of the 1970's.

I'm really struggling to think of another long established media brand/publicly listed company partaking in such obvious self harm and potential crash and burn, like WWE has been doing. I suppose it's actually quite rare for such a company to have one man holding so much power.


----------



## Seafort

llj said:


> True, there are other comparisons as well--generally large established companies tend to decline when there is a distinct lack of innovation for too long a period, so that the product gets stale. Since nobody else has really stepped up and had the money, resources and risk taking to do something different from the WWE, it's not getting killed by an up and comer (AEW is fine, but they aren't reinventing wrestling) the result is really just a gradual decline for the industry as a whole.


AEW has potential. Just establishing a alternative base in year 1 that leaves them profitable removes the immediate pressures that TNA had under Dixie Carter and Jerry Jarrett before her. I’m hoping that they can innovate. The key to overtaking a creatively dying, bloated hegemon is innovation. AEW has to do what WWE will not or cannot do. WWE is about quantity of content...AEW should be about quality. Perfection for each show and long term continuity that rewards the viewer are paramount.

I can think of other analogies of dominant companies that burned their consumers and were ultimately overtaken as they arrogantly flailed about - GM in the 1980s being the most immediate example.


----------



## postmoderno

Seafort said:


> What is truly needed is a complete rethink on how characters are created and how the show is presented.


This state of affairs predates the pandemic imo. But they seem bound and determined to do nothing and circle the bowl.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chasingamymatt said:


> You are actually incorrect mate. Bret was the largest international draw outside of the US between 1993-1997 if you check the tour info for Germany/UK/South Africa ect.
> 
> And to say he didnt draw in the US is also factually incorrect. When he took the belt from Nash after his long run ratings and house shows went up. When he took the belt at the start of '97 after Shawn and Sid flipped it ,guess what ratings and house show attendence went up. Survivor series 96 where he and Austin was the biggest built match did the best WWF buy rate of the year.
> 
> He was the top merch seller by metrics in the company between 1994-1996. The US-Canada feud in '97 did the best house shows/ratings WWF had done for quite some time when they were crossin over the border each week. But yes he wasnt a draw.


You must not have seen the documentary up above that I posted. It clearly states in there that business wise under Bret Hart was in the gutter from attendance going down, PPV buys going down, and tv ratings and viewership going down. All of this happened when Bret Hart was the top guy in the WWF and thats the reason Vince McMahon wanted to go in a different direction and he did with Steve Austin and The Rock and business picked up big time for the company.

Yeah Bret Hart was a draw in Canada but the U.K had its largest attendance when Hulk Hogan was still the top guy for WWF in 1992. 



Seafort said:


> It is true, or very close to it. WWE was in financial peril at one point in 1997, but the latest information out there (including the recent book Titan Screwed) places that period in June. Vince made his play to renegotiate Bret’s deal at the Sep RAW in MSG. He began negotiations with Hogan in August.
> 
> that doesn’t mean you are wrong - I used to believe the Sep financial peril story and did so until this summer. At one point Bret’s contract was a huge burden for him, but more importantly it guaranteed salary inflation for Shawn and Taker at a time of business uncertainty. Vince told Hall that he could not match WCW’s deal in the spring of 1996 for that very reason, yet felt cornered enough in Oct 1996 to do that very thing.


Yeah WWF couldn't match WCW's offers to Kevin Nash and Scott Hall but they left a year earlier than Bret Hart did. 

In the documentary I posted Bret Hart himself said Vince told him to go to WCW because they'll pay him more money. 

Bret Hart's contract according to Bret and Vince had nothing to do with Undertake and Shawn Michaels. It was all about financials that WWF couldn't pay him that salary for 20 years.



DaSlacker said:


> And it took a company wide change in format to TV-14 and Attitude marketing blitz to help Austin and Rock become household names...
> 
> July 1993 to March 1994 was Lex Luger. November 1994 to October 1995 was Diesel. Bret was the fall back guy.


And Bret Hart became the guy in 1995 after kevin Nash and Scott Hall signed with WCW so yeah you have to put the blame on him for why WWF's business was in the gutter.

Doesn't matter Steve Austin and The Rock drew people in and made them buy tickets and tune in to see them. Bret Hart didn't do that.


----------



## Dr. Jones

I'm really failing to see what the point of derailing this thread into a pointless "Bret Hart: Draw or Not?" debate was. Take that shit to the Classic Wrestling section.


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> And Bret Hart became the guy in 1995 after kevin Nash and Scott Hall signed with WCW so yeah you have to put the blame on him for why WWF's business was in the gutter.
> 
> Doesn't matter Steve Austin and The Rock drew people in and made them buy tickets and tune in to see them. Bret Hart didn't do that.


Only for 4 months so they could get the title on Michaels via a face vs. face main event. Much of 1996 was the Shawn Michaels Show. I think it's common knowledge Bret, Lex, Kevin and Shawn failed to be the next Hogan level megastar. But they weren't without merit and your argument negates the cyclical nature of business and ageing platform.


----------



## Charzhino

Is there any timeline of when crowds can be expected back on Raw?


----------



## chasingamymatt123

Ozell Gray said:


> You must not have seen the documentary up above that I posted. It clearly states in there that business wise under Bret Hart was in the gutter from attendance going down, PPV buys going down, and tv ratings and viewership going down. All of this happened when Bret Hart was the top guy in the WWF and thats the reason Vince McMahon wanted to go in a different direction and he did with Steve Austin and The Rock and business picked up big time for the company.
> 
> Yeah Bret Hart was a draw in Canada but the U.K had its largest attendance when Hulk Hogan was still the top guy for WWF in 1992.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah WWF couldn't match WCW's offers to Kevin Nash and Scott Hall but they left a year earlier than Bret Hart did.
> 
> In the documentary I posted Bret Hart himself said Vince told him to go to WCW because they'll pay him more money.
> 
> Bret Hart's contract according to Bret and Vince had nothing to do with Undertake and Shawn Michaels. It was all about financials that WWF couldn't pay him that salary for 20 years.
> 
> 
> 
> And Bret Hart became the guy in 1995 after kevin Nash and Scott Hall signed with WCW so yeah you have to put the blame on him for why WWF's business was in the gutter.
> 
> Doesn't matter Steve Austin and The Rock drew people in and made them buy tickets and tune in to see them. Bret Hart didn't do that.


 Sorry mate i didnt look at the doc, i gave you facts. Bret - bulldog did 93k in the uk, yes lots on the bulldog but thats the biggest none "massaged" attendence WWF did for years. 

Please link the metrics where Bret wasnt drawing in the US and also worldwide when he had the belt. I will wait as he was. 
WWF claimed they were in dire straights and said they would break Brets contract, then 5 months later signed Tyson.

Sorry Vince struggling for cash is bollox. Taker ad Shawn were also on incremental contracts - hence Bret got X and they got a bump. Again look at history its well documented.

Nash & Hall has nothing to do with Bret - it was about timing of contracts. At that time Vince didnt give guaranteed deals - he broke that with Mero & Pillman 3 months after Hall & Nash left.


----------



## fabi1982

llj said:


> But only 1 hour makes it consistently into the top 3 for demo now for a bunch of wrestling shows. It used to be the WWE had 1,2,3 locked up on Mondays, now it's something like 3, 5 and 7. Slowly but surely even their demo rating is slipping.
> 
> RAW is getting thwapped by 90 day fiance every week, which never would have happened even 5 years ago.
> 
> Not only does 90 Day Fiance kickass in the demos of their females WAY more than WWE does with males, it also hits 3m a week.


But will it do in 25 years? That WWE is consistently with all three hours in the top 7 is nothing to ignore. And 90 day fiancé will lose steem in a few years, but RAW will still be up there.

I could pull up these posts since I joined ages ago and each year there were 3 „when will WWE go down“ „once the tv contract is up they are fucked“. And now here we are, billion $ contracts and no one complained publicly from the networks.

And in three months time there will be the next thread from some AEW mark about this.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> That's a good comparison, but at the same time Atari was more of a startup. There was Cannon Group, which had success in the 1980's before filing for bankruptcy in the 1990's. Like Atari both a success and victim of its era. There was Hammer Film Productions, which boomed in the 50's and 60's and then got left behind by the edgy horror movies of the 1970's.
> 
> I'm really struggling to think of another long established media brand/publicly listed company partaking in such obvious self harm and potential crash and burn, like WWE has been doing. I suppose it's actually quite rare for such a company to have one man holding so much power.


Ford Motors under Henry Ford. He became rigid in his later years and refused to shift production from the Model T, allowing GM to pass him.


----------



## Sbatenney

You know a year before WWE got the FOX deal, TV experts were claiming that WWE wouldn't get any decent TV deals yet they got two of the biggest they ever got. TV is a weird thing and if you can get two networks bidding against each other than anything can happen. 

It's too early to say anything, let's not forget that 2023 is three years away and anything can happen, fuck Vince could sell to Disney and it ends it up being on Disney+ or something like that.


----------



## TerraRising

Sbatenney said:


> You know a year before WWE got the FOX deal, TV experts were claiming that WWE wouldn't get any decent TV deals yet they got two of the biggest they ever got. TV is a weird thing and if you can get two networks bidding against each other than anything can happen.
> 
> It's too early to say anything, let's not forget that 2023 is three years away and anything can happen, fuck Vince could sell to Disney and it ends it up being on Disney+ or something like that.


If that happens, y'all better stop watching WWE, unless you're a masochist for corporations.


----------



## SPCDRI

Arguing which people gain or lose 100,000 when the industry is in the mainstream gutter after the last 10 years of terrible decisions made by WWE, Impact and Ring of Honor seems comical to me. 
I don't think there's anyway to "fix it." American wrestling needs to enter that retention phase and please what they even have left right now. Just like, staunch the bleeding, and have WWE stabilize and AEW stabilize, at like the biggest show doing 1.5 million and other shows in that 150,000 to 750,000 or a bit better range. 
The times when pro wrestling blew up were cultural fads and freak boom period, lightning in a bottle phenomenon. I don't think chasing that stuff is going to do anybody any favors. Not the companies, not the viewers.


----------



## Seafort

fabi1982 said:


> But will it do in 25 years? That WWE is consistently with all three hours in the top 7 is nothing to ignore. And 90 day fiancé will lose steem in a few years, but RAW will still be up there.
> 
> I could pull up these posts since I joined ages ago and each year there were 3 „when will WWE go down“ „once the tv contract is up they are fucked“. And now here we are, billion $ contracts and no one complained publicly from the networks.
> 
> And in three months time there will be the next thread from some AEW mark about this.


WWE’s ratings are collapsing at 3x the rate of the overall viewing audience for all shows. That wasn’t happening when they were renewed. So this is a new situation.

Do I think that there will not be another deal? No, they will get something else. But it likely will not be much more, and may be much less. WWE is devaluing itself in the eyes of its fanbase, and why should Amazon or Disney spend $450M a year in 2024 if only 800K people (US) are watching at that point.

Do I think they are going under? That’s impossible under their current deals. Will they be at a weaker state or subject to a buyout by Disney or Amazon in five years...maybe. And if so, then we’ll see if the new leadership is better, or a modern day version of Turner Broadcasting taking over Jim Crockett Promotions.


----------



## Randy Lahey

DaSlacker said:


> I'm really struggling to think of another long established media brand/publicly listed company partaking in such obvious self harm and potential crash and burn, like WWE has been doing.


Blockbuster Video. WWE is like blockbuster. Really popular in the 1990s. Completely outdated now.


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> Blockbuster Video. WWE is like blockbuster. Really popular in the 1990s. Completely outdated now.


They have generated more revenue in the past 15 years with Cena and Rollins on top than the 80s and 90s which had Austin and Hogan on top. 

WWE is doing okay. Could be better. But okay.


----------



## Soul Rex

Ozell Gray said:


> And again getting people to cheer for you ISN'T charisma. *Charisma is your personality* which Bret Hart NEVER had hence why he couldn't draw and WWF were tanking with him as the top guy.


You are not the first, nor the last wrestling fan who doesn't have a clue of what the word charisma means.

Which is sad, because you are always arguing about things you don't even know.



Kentucky34 said:


> They have generated more revenue in the past 15 years with Cena and* Rollins* on top than the 80s and 90s which had Austin and Hogan on top.
> 
> WWE is doing okay. Could be better. But okay.


You mean Reigns?

WWE has learn to do more money with the years because they optimized their way of making money with what they have, with the time, they run more events, their tv, merchandise, licences, deals are better. 

They are a better company in terms of structure and organization, they just learn to use their monopoly and get the most out of it, despite their popularity dropping down in a historical level. 

But sadly this won't last em that much, seeing as their fans are dissapearin, their are going to die sooner than later.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

As WWE Ratings Tumble, McMahon Must Stop Blaming Storylines


Vince McMahon’s WWE is running out of time. At first glance, this statement seems nonsensical. WWE’s stock has proved notably robust in the face of sustained declines in key metrics of fan engageme…




variety.com


----------



## SPCDRI

The revenue that WWE got is wonderful for WWE but its divorced from them putting on quality shows. Its bad for the fans because they aren't spending that money in wise, entertaining ways. WWE is a whitewashed tomb, man. Its got 2 billion of whitewash slopped on it, and then you crack it open, and every metric used to otherwise judge a wrestling company is just dead and moldering. Merch sales suck, attendance sucks, Network paid subscriptions a million below where they say they want them to be, before coronavirus they were losing money on house shows and cancelling house shows left and right, no youth interest in the shows, terrible numbers in Canada and Europe, almost no 25-45 year interest in the shows, lost 60 percent of their 18-49 audience in the last 6 years, median age for WWE viewership creeping up towards 60, all time lows getting set on almost monthly basis for 2 years in total viewership, stale roster of people that have been involved with WWE for over a decade by now, sabotaged debuts, NXT call ups bombing left and right, aging roster being trotted out that is into its 40s and 50s now for their biggest shows. 
The ONLY thing going well for WWE right now is revenue. Everything is in the TOILET.


----------



## SPCDRI

In order of what I think is least likely to get cancelled to most

RAW: Huge upfront price tag of 265 million dollars, but its for 156 hours of content. That comes out a bit less than 1.7 million dollars an hour. Per hour, sitcom shows are much more expensive, big budget dramas and prestige programming even more. RAW is peanuts to air in comparison, fractions of new content potential replacement programming. Its also USA's flagship programming for decades. I don't see them getting cancelled but if they get renewed, how could it possibly be for more than what USA Network is paying now?
When USA Network signed that 5 year deal in 2018, RAW was getting around 3 million viewers a show. We don't know what viewership will be like in 2023, but lets do some hypothetical math here...

Crowds come back, and its a boost to RAW viewership, lets say 25 percent from where they are now and brings them to 2 million viewers. But they suffer 3 years of overall decline in viewership of 10 percent on average in 2021, 2022 and 2023. 

2 million times .9=1.458 million viewers. Ouch. And totally reasonably to think the company is doing 1.5 million or worse for total viewership for RAW by 2023, don't think for one second that it isn't. 

There's potential that USA would choose to not renew in 2023 if the numbers were there or worse, but I think...
RAW is not cancelled, USA offers to renew in 2023 for less money, and WWE has a HUGE decision to make.

NXT=Hundreds of thousands of viewers lower than what USA was airing before. Routinely out of of the top 20 in 18-49 demo, has been outside of the top 50 with 18-49 sometimes. This is not like RAW, a big time performer. This is arguably a fairly substantial underperformer. I would say so. But the saving grace is they are paying peanuts for it, something like 30 million dollars for 100 hours of live programming. That being said, USA has moved and cancelled WWE shows before. I think NXT might move nights and if it gets a long term deal known to the public, it won't be a 5 year deal.

Smackdown: Low total viewership, winning demos but not slam dunking them, about 1 million dollars an hour in cost, so super cheap. FOX is well known for moving shows in timeslot and cancelling them, even said to be trigger happy on that front. They've got no history with WWE either. If things get much worse, like consistent around or below 2 million with a trend looking south, FOX might reason it got sold a lemon and try to put it on FS1 or cancel it. This is the show I believe to be most likely moved or cancelled. WWE programming is THE Big Kahuna for USA, for FOX? Just Another Show.


----------



## CookieMonsterPunk_SES

"How low can the ratings go?" 


Sounds like a good game of limbo lmao 

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> Even with Becky, they lost a million viewers in ONE year during her time as the top girl. She's the best "star" they made in the last 3 years and she couldn't stop the bleeding one iota. That shows there's a bigger problem than just star making, it means that whatever they've been doing lately, is happening in a vacuum. Why is this? Because consumers have just tuned out. It's kinda like the con man who suddenly goes straight for a year. They'll always be the con man in everyone else's eyes. One year of making a big star won't change anything at this point.


I see a lot of wrestlers get blamed for the tumble in ratings and for the most part that blame is unwarranted. The one exception to that is Becky. When they decided to build the brand around her from Dec ‘18 through the RTWM season we saw things with the ratings that we had never seen before. No big spike after the NFL season. No big spike around the RR. No big spike during WM season. The viewership stayed relatively flat which had never happened before. And that’s coming off the prior year where ratings actually increased YoY (which helped WWE secure those huge tv deals). It took bringing back Batista, Roman, and Cena coupled with pulling back on featuring Becky to bring a pulse back to the RTWM ratings. Now whether that blame should fall on Becky specifically or women’s wrestling in general is tough to say but that experiment was a major failure and it sped up their ratings decline by several years IMO.


----------



## Not Lying

ClintDagger said:


> I see a lot of wrestlers get blamed for the tumble in ratings and for the most part that blame is unwarranted. The one exception to that is Becky. When they decided to build the brand around her from Dec ‘18 through the RTWM season we saw things with the ratings that we had never seen before. No big spike after the NFL season. No big spike around the RR. No big spike during WM season. The viewership stayed relatively flat which had never happened before. And that’s coming off the prior year where ratings actually increased YoY (which helped WWE secure those huge tv deals). It took bringing back Batista, Roman, and Cena coupled with pulling back on featuring Becky to bring a pulse back to the RTWM ratings. Now whether that blame should fall on Becky specifically or women’s wrestling in general is tough to say but that experiment was a major failure and it sped up their ratings decline by several years IMO.


Except to anyone with two brain cells and not a braindead hater, they would actually know for a fact that Becky IS not to blame. 
When WWE did their controversial shit with Saudi Arabia, after Roman the FOTC was gone without a warning or putting anyone over, Becky was ON FUCKING SMACKOWN. Until the night AFTER Rumble, on RAW, which DID NOT have Becky advertised (she was for SD), and ratings tanked. Who is to blame?
Seth main evented the Rumble, he got a beatdown by BROCK LESNAR, to end the show. 
But nah, let's blame that RAW rating on Becky for appearing *2 min* unannounced to challenge Ronda. 

The next 2 weeks were the only 2 weeks with focus on Becky, and yes ratings were down, but just like ALL the drops that started occuring within the year prior (from JULY 2018), they were at a higher rate than the year before. And imagine having only ONE storyline that ties up the show, and a storyline that people HATED that even Becky fans quit watching. 

AND NO SHIT having only one match announced while they still didn't know what to do with the part-timers.
"They had to bring Cena and Roman and Batista" LMAO.
More like they were always featured into the but did it when they were available.

The most pathetic thing I've seen is blame 20 months of bad booking and downturn on Becky. THE LAST PERSON to score a segment over 2.1m views on RAW. 
Immediately after she left, 200k stopped watching.


----------



## Rozzop

The Definition of Technician said:


> Except to anyone with two brain cells and not a braindead hater, they would actually know for a fact that Becky IS not to blame.
> When WWE did their controversial shit with Saudi Arabia, after Roman the FOTC was gone without a warning or putting anyone over, Becky was ON FUCKING SMACKOWN. Until the night AFTER Rumble, on RAW, which DID NOT have Becky advertised (she was for SD), and ratings tanked. Who is to blame?
> Seth main evented the Rumble, he got a beatdown by BROCK LESNAR, to end the show.
> But nah, let's blame that RAW rating on Becky for appearing *2 min* unannounced to challenge Ronda.
> 
> The next 2 weeks were the only 2 weeks with focus on Becky, and yes ratings were down, but just like ALL the drops that started occuring within the year prior (from JULY 2018), they were at a higher rate than the year before. And imagine having only ONE storyline that ties up the show, and a storyline that people HATED that even Becky fans quit watching.
> 
> AND NO SHIT having only one match announced while they still didn't know what to do with the part-timers.
> "They had to bring Cena and Roman and Batista" LMAO.
> More like they were always featured into the but did it when they were available.
> 
> The most pathetic thing I've seen is blame 20 months of bad booking and downturn on Becky. THE LAST PERSON to score a segment over 2.1m views on RAW.
> Immediately after she left, 200k stopped watching.


It would be great it posters like you could acknowledge that a number of the pre-existing fanbase, of wrestling i might add, simulated fighting, have no interest in the show being dominated by 5"2 non threatening women. 

This isn't Love Island or Big Brother or a traditional soap opera, this is wrestling. 

To go from Rock and Austin to Becky Lynch is a pretty deep dive, in fact it's like watching a completely different genre, yet you can't seem to understand why people would have no interest in her or any of the women dominating the shows and main eventing ppvs.


----------



## Not Lying

Rozzop said:


> It would be great it posters like you could acknowledge that a number of the pre-existing fanbase, of wrestling i might add, simulated fighting, have no interest in the show being dominated by 5"2 non threatening women.
> 
> This isn't Love Island or Big Brother or a traditional soap opera, this is wrestling.
> 
> To go from Rock and Austin to Becky Lynch is a pretty deep dive, in fact it's like watching a completely different genre, yet you can't seem to understand why people would have no interest in her or any of the women dominating the shows and main eventing ppvs.


I've never denied this. I know a lot of people who were conditioned to see women a joke were never going to take women wrestling seriously so they would tune out. The difference is that Becky's retention rate was good, considering she was one of the tops draws on the show male or female, and during that time they were doing 2 things: building her up (6 months before she was literally a nobody) and actually not giving her a good story, just a push and spotlight but not the story her fans wanted to see (just as a small sample, many diehard Becky fans here stopped watching after Charlotte was inserted in the 3-way). 

There is also the difference that despite what you or anyone else thinks, WWE wanted to push the women, no matter what. There is clearly a % of young female demo that want to see good women wrestling too that they're buildinng up.
And fact is, if the women were and are now drawing better than their counterparts, why shouldn't they be pushed more? 
Shouldn't there be automatically more viewers for any male segment if we take into account what u are saying?


----------



## volde

The Definition of Technician said:


> Shouldn't there be automatically more viewers for any male segment if we take into account what u are saying?


Because when people eventually stop watching they don't return next week when something changes.


----------



## Rozzop

The Definition of Technician said:


> I've never denied this. I know a lot of people who were conditioned to see women a joke were never going to take women wrestling seriously so they would tune out. The difference is that Becky's retention rate was good, considering she was one of the tops draws on the show male or female, and during that time they were doing 2 things: building her up (6 months before she was literally a nobody) and actually not giving her a good story, just a push and spotlight but not the story her fans wanted to see (just as a small sample, many diehard Becky fans here stopped watching after Charlotte was inserted in the 3-way).
> 
> There is also the difference that despite what you or anyone else thinks, WWE wanted to push the women, no matter what. There is clearly a % of young female demo that want to see good women wrestling too that they're buildinng up.
> And fact is, if the women were and are now drawing better than their counterparts, why shouldn't they be pushed more?
> Shouldn't there be automatically more viewers for any male segment if we take into account what u are saying?


The male viewers have given up completely. It's not a case of "oh here is Bayley, I am going to switch off until Rey Mysterio appears". They have just given up.

6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range demo watched Raw the other week throughout the entire US. 6000

Of course its not just the women. The men are booked horribly and the entire show is stale and boring, I just feel that womens wrestling appeals to a very niche audience. 

All thats left is fans of womens wrestling. No one in their right mind is going to sit through three hours of raw flipping in and out hoping to catch a glimpse of Seth and Drew and changing the channel when Sasha is on. 

Most of the topics here are about the women. Most everybody else has disappeared and it reflects in the ratings. 

It's not politically correct to say this and you get accused of being misogynistic but it's a fact. 

Wrestling is Hogan vs Warrior, Cena vs Orton, Rock vs Austin

Masculine dudes simulating fighting. 

It never has been Sensational Sherri vs Sapphire, Lita vs Trish or Sasha vs Asuka


----------



## Not Lying

Rozzop said:


> The male viewers have given up completely. It's not a case of "oh here is Bayley, I am going to switch off until Rey Mysterio appears". They have just given up.
> 
> 6000 viewers in the 18-34 age range demo watched Raw the other week throughout the entire US. 6000
> 
> Of course its not just the women. The men are booked horribly and the entire show is stale and boring, I just feel that womens wrestling appeals to a very niche audience.
> 
> All thats left is fans of womens wrestling. No one in their right mind is going to sit through three hours of raw flipping in and out hoping to catch a glimpse of Seth and Drew and changing the channel when Sasha is on.
> 
> Most of the topics here are about the women. Most everybody else has disappeared and it reflects in the ratings.
> 
> It's not politically correct to say this and you get accused of being misogynistic but it's a fact.
> 
> Wrestling is Hogan vs Warrior, Cena vs Orton, Rock vs Austin
> 
> Masculine dudes simulating fighting.
> 
> It never has been Sensational Sherri vs Sapphire, Lita vs Trish or Sasha vs Asuka


Dude FFS take a look at trends.
What you are saying is all *assumptions and you have no data to back it up.*

What I know for certain is: 


WWE's ratings have been declining mostly for 20 years
a bigger year on year drop started becoming a trend in *2014*.
After WM 31, RAW ratings were still declining at a big rate
Women's evolution started in july 2015, when the ratings have been going down a higher rate than average for a year now, and that was maintained until July 2018 when another higher than average drop started happening. The last higher than average decline was due to the pandemic.

I fail to see how at any point the women getting more focused was the downfall of ratings. You keep telling yourself that because you just want to hate on the talent or you do not want to shit on WWE, but fact is, if you take the drop they had from july 2014 to july 2015, no women's revolution shit, and do the same % decrease year on year to now, accounting for the pandemic effect... The ratings won't be much different.


----------



## rexmundi

Wow, they finally had an hour dip below 1.5 million and a .41 demo which is godawful for WWE. The first two hours held well but both sub 1.7 million. Will sports cause Hour 1 and 2 to follow Hour 3's lead? Stay tuned.


----------



## SPCDRI

I and other people thought hockey and baseball being back would murder Smackdown. I said, 5 hockey games and 11 baseball games, Smackdown will get murdered. Nope. Not so fast. Smackdown actually slightly increased in total viewership last week. The impact of sports on wrestling will be less because there's fewer total people and far fewer casual people. Now, if it were like 6 or 7 years ago and there's 4 or 5 million total viewers of a RAW and there's opening day basketball or a good Monday Night Football game or hockey playoffs like Stanley Cup or something like that, RAW took hit. But when there's 1.7 million people left? Its not going to be that big of a hit. There's not much to lose and the overwhelming majority of watchers are smarks and hardcores and lifers in their 30s, 40s,50s,60s+ who have been watching pro wrestling forever as their major, possibly even sole form, of television entertainment.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> I and other people thought hockey and baseball being back would murder Smackdown. I said, 5 hockey games and 11 baseball games, Smackdown will get murdered. Nope. Not so fast. Smackdown actually slightly increased in total viewership last week. The impact of sports on wrestling will be less because there's fewer total people and far fewer casual people. Now, if it were like 6 or 7 years ago and there's 4 or 5 million total viewers of a RAW and there's opening day basketball or a good Monday Night Football game or hockey playoffs like Stanley Cup or something like that, RAW took hit. But when there's 1.7 million people left? Its not going to be that big of a hit. There's not much to lose and the overwhelming majority of watchers are smarks and hardcores and lifers in their 30s, 40s,50s,60s+ who have been watching pro wrestling forever as their major, possibly even sole form, of television entertainment.


It’s been awhile since sports had much impact on WWE. The last few years the NFL season would end and the ratings would only tick up a small amount. And as you pointed out that cross over is becoming less and less. I think for the most part the fans that are left are not the sports watching or athletic types. And that is especially true of the hardest core fans.


----------



## RT1981

Vince needs to wake up and get these 2 off the show before they run whats left of the fans away.


----------



## The One

Well someone had to say it...


----------



## RT1981

The One said:


> Well someone had to say it...


it needs to be said cause its the truth. these 2 annoying bitches get worse every week sad fact I actally liked Sasha before this but now I can't stand the sight of her and wish she would go away.


----------



## Big Booty Bex

First it was Seth Rollins, then Asuka, and now Bayley and Sasha. WWE has gradually lost viewers for several years, but please let's keep blaming individual talents for the low ratings.


----------



## The Phantom

Please. The decline of ratings can only be attributed to one source: witches.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Blissmark said:


> First is was Seth Rollins, then Asuka, and now Bayley and Sasha. WWE has gradually lost viewers for several years, but please let's keep blaming individual talents for the low ratings.


It's a bit more legit to assign some blame their way since they are on every single show nowadays. If it was just smackdown it wouldn't be fair but they dont ever piss off for a week


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

People weren't biting on the Sasha/Bayley bait in the weekly threads so you made a dedicated one? 

We get it, you hate them but you aren't going to convince anybody that them getting 15 minutes caused people to not watch a 3 hour show.


----------



## Twilight Sky

Is Sasha still Botch Moves Banks? That's like the main reason I didn't like her, she botched like every other move.


----------



## RT1981

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> People weren't biting on the Sasha/Bayley bait in the weekly threads so you made a dedicated one?
> 
> We get it, you hate them but you aren't going to convince anybody that them getting 15 minutes caused people to not watch a 3 hour show.


wrong I hate bayley and like Sasha before she took this annoying troll chracter.I want the real Boss back not this annoying troll who kisses Bayley's ass.


----------



## ClintDagger

I wouldn’t say they are to blame but we know enough about them to know they aren’t the cure. So why are they getting so much show time across the 3 shows? It seems like WWE should be in kitchen sink mode at this point.


----------



## Speedy McFist

Twilight Sky said:


> Is Sasha still Botch Moves Banks? That's like the main reason I didn't like her, she botched like every other move.


Sasha is the greatest.


----------



## HugoCortez

WTF? I mean, at least Bayley has been on top of the SD division for long enough and pushed strong enough (for a heel) for people to start demanding results on the whole metrics thing. But Sasha? She's only been pushed as the other top player for 2 months. Anyway, ratings have been dropping nonstop for years with so many different people at the front that we should stop scapegoating. Rollins was mocked nonstop when he was champ to the point people thought him being depushed so they could make way for other people would magically improve things. Lo and behold, things are still bad.


----------



## Stellar

I've been vocal on here about how i'm not enjoying the Bayley/Sasha thing (I just want to finally see the payoff after 2 years)..BUT blaming ratings on them is far from accurate.

It's the worst when people come on here to blame ratings struggles on particular wrestlers that they dislike. Making such claims to valid their dislike for that wrestler, even though theirs zero proof. It's so stupid.

Reigns, Becky, Charlotte, Rollins, Asuka, Jinder, etc...take your pick. They have all been accused of the same thing. None of these people have been on a show for a full 2 or 3 hours. More like 15-20 minutes. So these claims make no sense. Especially when you're just an armchair "ratings expert" in the comfort of your home.


----------



## Alright_Mate

It seems Bayley and Sasha have done their job to perfection and pissed yet another fan off


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Blah Blah Blah! Every month, same shit. More ratings are going down. What do people like Op resort to? Scapegoating/blaming talents for the fall.


----------



## Hephaesteus

But to play along with your premise, if two women who arent even part of Raw can have such an effect on the ratings, what does that say about the rest of the "talent" on raw?


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit




----------



## Heath V

Randy Lahey said:


> Blockbuster Video. WWE is like blockbuster. Really popular in the 1990s. Completely outdated now.


Yet everybody I know wants Blockbuster back. And unlike Blockbuster, WWE isn't going anywhere.


----------



## Pippen94

Crash TV to pop ratings - will we see a bounce?? Long term can't be good


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

They try.

But come on.. Sasha and Bayley arent the ones booking this trash are they?

But as far as this womens divisiin though.. Billie Kay deserves better and I miss Becky Lynch being there

Oh and screw you Vince for releasing Emma


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

nah it's not them the product overall is just awful.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> nah it's not them the product overall is just awful.


And whos the one booking this awful product? Its not Sasha and Bayley


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> it needs to be said cause its the truth. these 2 annoying bitches get worse every week sad fact I actally liked Sasha before this but now I can't stand the sight of her and wish she would go away.


How did I miss this awful thread? 😂

Imagine being so petty enough to blame Sasha Banks and Bayley for the low ratings when (AGAIN,) there’s more than enough evidence that ratings have continuously decreased over the past several years (going as far back as early-mid 2014); which is LONG before those 2 women even showed up on the main roster (let alone getting a push). 

There is NO truth here on your end. They’re clearly not the reason why WWE keeps losing viewers. You’d be naive to claim that pushing anyone else will make a significant difference whatsoever (not that I’m opposed to other good talents getting pushed btw). I’m just being realistic here.

This whining gimmick about Sasha and Bayley got old weeks ago, OP. You’re a fucking joke, dude :LOL



TeamFlareZakk said:


> And whos the one booking this awful product? Its not Sasha and Bayley


I think that poster agrees with you since that’s what he meant to say.


----------



## Charzhino

The over exposure of women in wrestling is causing the slide in ratings. I can just imagine casual viewers tuning into Raw, seeing the Kevin Owens show for 2 minutes and turning off. Or watching the sasha bailey segment and changing the channel.


----------



## Christopher Near

How are the individual talent to blame? By that logic eddie Guerrero is to blame for smackdowns ratings in 2004


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

DammitChrist said:


> How did I miss this awful thread? 😂
> 
> Imagine being so petty enough to blame Sasha Banks and Bayley for the low ratings when (AGAIN,) there’s more than enough evidence that ratings have continuously decreased over the past several years (going as far back as early-mid 2014); which is LONG before those 2 women even showed up on the main roster (let alone getting a push).
> 
> There is NO truth here on your end. They’re clearly not the reason why WWE keeps losing viewers. You’d be naive to claim that pushing anyone else will make a significant difference whatsoever (not that I’m opposed to other good talents getting pushed btw). I’m just being realistic here.
> 
> This whining gimmick about Sasha and Bayley got old weeks ago, OP. You’re a fucking joke, dude :LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I think that poster agrees with you since that’s what he meant to say.


Yeah I know.. I dont like Prichard btw 



DammitChrist said:


> How did I miss this awful thread? 😂
> 
> Imagine being so petty enough to blame Sasha Banks and Bayley for the low ratings when (AGAIN,) there’s more than enough evidence that ratings have continuously decreased over the past several years (going as far back as early-mid 2014); which is LONG before those 2 women even showed up on the main roster (let alone getting a push).
> 
> There is NO truth here on your end. They’re clearly not the reason why WWE keeps losing viewers. You’d be naive to claim that pushing anyone else will make a significant difference whatsoever (not that I’m opposed to other good talents getting pushed btw). I’m just being realistic here.
> 
> This whining gimmick about Sasha and Bayley got old weeks ago, OP. You’re a fucking joke, dude :LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I think that poster agrees with you since that’s what he meant to say.


Yeah, I know 😆 I dont like Prichard btw


----------



## Ger

RT1981 said:


> Vince needs to wake up and get these 2 off the show before they run whats left of the fans away.


Sasha and Bayley are one of the fews reasons left I still watch the show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RT1981 said:


> Vince needs to wake up and get these 2 off the show before they run whats left of the fans away.


*Sasha's segments have shown to increase ratings across all three shows on multiple occasions, but you don't care about facts, so I'm not even going to waste my time. I can't wait to see the excuses you make when those ratings spike today. Keep that same energy.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Heath V said:


> Yet everybody I know wants Blockbuster back. And unlike Blockbuster, WWE isn't going anywhere.


Where is there a demand for movie rental places?


----------



## Dab00g

nah.

Wwe itself has been trash for years. But the pandemic has fully shown wrestling is even worse without a real crowd.

Nobody watches studio wrestling seriously because it does not matter.

I can watch wwe and aew in clip show format. 

Njpw is the only wrestling with a crowd and therefore more enjoyable

Wwe will be shit until lockdown is over


----------



## The Sheik

I know right. I tune out every time they're on TV, I'm sure other people do as well.

They're not the only reason for the low ratings, but they're one of the main reasons.


----------



## The True Believer

They’re not really my cup of tea, but neither is the prominent game of casual fallacy for low ratings blame when an Internet-rejected entity is getting prominence. Miss me with that shit, homeboy. _Word._


----------



## Erik.

The reason for low ratings is because the WWE is shit and no one cares about wrestling enough to even know who Sasha Banks or Bayley even are.


----------



## yeahright2

Not a fan of either of them, but it´s not their fault ratings are sinking. Before them it was Charlotte -NXT ratings proved she turned people away while Banks/Bayley gained viewers


----------



## Balor fan

Raw ratings for 8/3/2020 - 6th/4th/5th - 1.710/1.824/1.610 million viewers


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Up from last week.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290739961914744832


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.710M [15th] | 0.480D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.824M [12th] | 0.550D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.610M [18th] | 0.510D [5th]

3V | 3D: 1.715M | 0.513D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.114M | + 6.68% ]
[ + 0.070D | + 14.58% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.214M | - 11.73% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.27% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.100M | - 5.85% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 6.25% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.098M | + 6.19% ]
[ + 0.036D | + 7.55% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.728M | - 30.65% ]
[ - 0.297D | - 36.67% ]*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Up even against Lebron and the NBA and NHL playoffs.


Bryan Alvarez in shambles.


----------



## Ace

RainmakerV2 said:


> Up even against Lebron and the NBA and NHL playoffs.
> 
> 
> Bryan Alvarez in shambles.


Only means its going to fall harder next week. People tuned in to see the Shane stuff and the new faction and probably left disappointed. Expecting to see the number close to 1.5m next week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Becky Lynch pregnancy episode did 1.9 million viewers, and that had a similar level, if not less social media buzz going in than this episode. They've fallen off.

Sports seemingly isn't taking a way as big of a chunk of viewers as initially anticipated.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ace said:


> Only means its going to fall harder next week. People tuned in to see the Shane stuff and the new faction and probably left disappointed. Expecting to see the number close to 1.5m next week.


He said the show was going to "DIE" in the ratings. Thats a quote. He can dish the shit, he can eat it too.


----------



## Erik.

I assume Shane and new stable curiosity saw the increase. 

Would be surprised if Shane being a leader of worked shoot fights and people setting fire to things maintains viewers. 

But crazier things have happened.


----------



## RT1981

Shane O Mac= Ratings!!!!

The Best in the World!!!

Take notes Sasha and Bayley thats what a draw does.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> He said the show was going to "DIE" in the ratings. Thats a quote. He can dish the shit, he can eat it too.


Felt like it was obvious the ratings would go up, Rusev cuck angle drew, Becky Lynch pregnancy drew, doesn't mean it was sustainable.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Still not very good ratings


----------



## Prosper

Good thing they got out of that 1.4 cable viewer hole, holy shit that was getting bad. Not saying 1.7 is that much better for a show like RAW though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The numbers are pitiful. I actually think there's nothing they can do at this point. If they actually go Attitude Era route again to really flare things up, they're probably going to have sponsor/misc issues with abandoning PG. They can bring back guys like Triple H, Lesnar, Goldberg, Cena, etc but the reality is they might be good for a 1-2 week bump... and I don't think it'd be much more than the type of bump we saw this week. Someone like Reigns might have a similar effect, but even that's up in the air at this point.

Only The Rock coming back would give WWE the boost it needs... but issue is he'd need to put guys on current roster over and (try to) make them stars. However how many guys actually have that potential mega-star quality in them? And furthermore, Rock would need to put over more than one guy to really set the company up. Plus... if Rock were to show up, you know it's a match with Reigns we'd get. Which I'm not against in it of itself, but when you factor in that Reigns has already most likely been maxed out in how high he can go, it's just going back to the same problems they've had for a long time. Sure a match like Rock/Reigns is the biggest match WWE could do at this point (except something like Rock/Lesnar), but it's a short term boost. Constantly going for short term boosts rather than trying to make stars is what's been the problem for the longest time.

Sure, you have Goldberg put over Braun Strowman at Mania this year. However we all know the only reason that happened is because Reigns pulled out. Strowman gets no build up leading into the match, just is randomly thrown in, wins, and while it's a nice win for him, it doesn't mean as much without the build up. Plus consider that to get to Goldberg/Reigns, they stupidly had Goldberg go over The Fiend. The Fiend, who was arguably their hottest rising star for the months before that Goldberg match. Even forgetting about Goldberg, plans called for Fiend and all that build up to be sacrificed to Reigns at Mania anyway.

This idea that everything revolves around one guy is what's killed the business. Part-timers/stars put over the one guy first and foremost. Then maybe they'll put over other guys shortly afterwards with diminishing effects - but it doesn't mean as much. McIntyre's win over Lesnar was nice, but it comes after Lesnar put over Reigns, and then Rollins multiple times the year prior. I like McIntyre - I think he's a decent choice as the top guy. However even his rise is on the show with what will naturally have the lower viewership between Raw and Smackdown given the networks they're on. 

Keep in mind the biggest matches with full-timers WWE can do right now (not counting Reigns since he's out) are McIntyre vs. Fiend, Strowman vs. Fiend, Strowman vs. McIntyre... and do any of these matches feel like they could be a Wrestlemania main event? A Mania that you'd aim to make one of the most successful Wrestlemanias of all time? 

This is what years of doing the above, as well as pulling the rug out from underneath anybody when they get red hot (Barrett 2014, Rusev 2018, Sandow 2015, Cesaro 2014, Zack Ryder 2011, Strowman when he was red hot in 2016) will do to the company. Not that EVERY one of those guys needed to be main eventers, but even for trying to make them strong mid-carders that could draw in that part of the card and have people invested... they didn't even try with any of those guys except maybe Strowman and Barrett. Bryan getting the WM30 main event was a fluke as well - he was initially penciled in to face Sheamus in a midcard match for crying out loud. 

I'm saying nothing new here, but yeah... the fact this is the best number they can do at this point is due to years and years of shit like the above. Even dating back before Reigns' rise. This goes back to the Cena era.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks like da ratingz god seth drew big time in the third hour.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Good thing they got out of that 1.4 cable viewer hole, holy shit that was getting bad. Not saying 1.7 is that much better for a show like RAW though.


They never did 1.4 overall, it was 1 hour but the whole show did 1.610 or something


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Also something else to consider - they were doing better numbers back in June for Raw. June... when McIntyre/Ziggler was the main program (can't remember if Edge/Orton's program was here or in May). We're now in August - on the road to Summerslam. This number, where they seemingly put effort in to make it feel different and try to keep you hooked throughout... can't beat numbers in June.


----------



## Prosper

There’s nothing they can do to bounce back in the next 4-6 months. Damage is done. You can only bring back The Rock so many times. The RAW Underground, while entertaining for now, is just another short term desperate attempt at a solution, just like Goldbergs return. At the end of the day it’s still pro wrestling you have to push, not fake MMA shoot fighting.

They need to put on at least 12-24 months of continuous good content to get back to where they want to be. The thing is that if they put on one good show here and there no one will even know because they’re not watching and are programmed to expect bad. They need consistency to right this ship and that’s something they don’t wanna do. They have no idea what to do, hence last nights entertaining but desperate RAW.


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Also something else to consider - they were doing better numbers back in June for Raw. June... when McIntyre/Ziggler was the main program (can't remember if Edge/Orton's program was here or in May). We're now in August - on the road to Summerslam. This number, where they seemingly put effort in to make it feel different and try to keep you hooked throughout... can't beat numbers in June.


Yep, the program with Edge vs Randy Orton also took place in June (which was continued from the previous months)


----------



## Dr. Jones

I'm curious what happens when the NBA starts actual playoff games. These games right now only really mean anything to the fringe playoff teams that are fighting for playoff spots. Most teams are just playing to get back into game shape until the playoffs start in about 2 weeks


----------



## Frost99

They were like this.......








But they ACTUALLY meant this..........


----------



## DaSlacker

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The numbers are pitiful. I actually think there's nothing they can do at this point. If they actually go Attitude Era route again to really flare things up, they're probably going to have sponsor/misc issues with abandoning PG.


Directly, the sponsorship and licensing is small change compared to the TV revenue. In the first six months of 2020 the revenue from both was 31 million and 17 million, respectively. For the TV rights it was 266 million. Though I dare say a heavily sanitized WWE is more palatable to USA Network and perhaps FOX when they sell to advertisers.


----------



## postmoderno

prosperwithdeen said:


> There’s nothing they can do to bounce back in the next 4-6 months. Damage is done. You can only bring back The Rock so many times. The RAW Underground, while entertaining for now, is just another short term desperate attempt at a solution, just like Goldbergs return. At the end of the day it’s still pro wrestling you have to push, not fake MMA shoot fighting.
> 
> They need to put on at least 12-24 months of continuous good content to get back to where they want to be. The thing is that if they put on one good show here and there no one will even know because they’re not watching and are programmed to expect bad. They need consistency to right this ship and that’s something they don’t wanna do. They have no idea what to do, hence last nights entertaining but desperate RAW.


I'll admit it's a long shot, but I'm hoping someone there realizes this. If they do, they'll realize they have to keep bringing the creative content, and that may eventually drive the ratings back up. 

If they panic and go back to status quo/abandon the stuff they started last night, we'll know for certain it is well and truly over.


----------



## llj

Just like the Christian/Pritchard week et al, this was a one week bump that will dissipate in about 3 weeks. We've seen this before


----------



## ElTerrible

llj said:


> Just like the Christian week et al, this was a one week bump that will dissipate in about 3 weeks. We've seen this before


----------



## Dr. Jones

I don't really know how one could see going from a 1.61 to a 1.71 to be some giant victory. They're numbers are consistently going down and any hour above 2.0 looks like a herculean effort


----------



## llj

90 Day Fiance is doing numbers RAW used to do 3 or so years ago. And it isn't even a mainstream-popular show.


----------



## RT1981

Dr. Jones said:


> I don't really know how one could see going from a 1.61 to a 1.71 to be some giant victory. They're numbers are consistently going down and any hour above 2.0 looks like a herculean effort


these days they will take what they can get lol😁


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Dr. Jones said:


> I don't really know how one could see going from a 1.61 to a 1.71 to be some giant victory. They're numbers are consistently going down and any hour above 2.0 looks like a herculean effort


Standards has really lowered in the totem pole. This was no victory. This was just a quick ratings boost because we can't make stars, have to rely on the past with Shane McMahon. The reason people tuned in was to see the new concept and faction. They didn't get the formal which will drive the fans away again. The remaining ones. Lazy gets less viewers.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Sasha and Bayley are entertaining and you have no metrics to prove your point about them making the ratings go down. I wish I could get a clip of Sashas witch like laugh.


----------



## Seafort

The Definition of Technician said:


> Dude FFS take a look at trends.
> What you are saying is all *assumptions and you have no data to back it up.*
> 
> What I know for certain is:
> 
> 
> WWE's ratings have been declining mostly for 20 years
> a bigger year on year drop started becoming a trend in *2014*.
> After WM 31, RAW ratings were still declining at a big rate
> Women's evolution started in july 2015, when the ratings have been going down a higher rate than average for a year now, and that was maintained until July 2018 when another higher than average drop started happening. The last higher than average decline was due to the pandemic.
> I fail to see how at any point the women getting more focused was the downfall of ratings. You keep telling yourself that because you just want to hate on the talent or you do not want to shit on WWE, but fact is, if you take the drop they had from july 2014 to july 2015, no women's revolution shit, and do the same % decrease year on year to now, accounting for the pandemic effect... The ratings won't be much different.


And to be clear, it started when WWE began the first of its long-term heel champion reigns in Seth Rollins, and they doubled down on the situation by making him a weak, Honkytonk Man type of champion who needed constant interference to win most of his matches. That spring of 2015 was when the real plunge started.


----------



## Seafort

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The numbers are pitiful. I actually think there's nothing they can do at this point. If they actually go Attitude Era route again to really flare things up, they're probably going to have sponsor/misc issues with abandoning PG. They can bring back guys like Triple H, Lesnar, Goldberg, Cena, etc but the reality is they might be good for a 1-2 week bump... and I don't think it'd be much more than the type of bump we saw this week. Someone like Reigns might have a similar effect, but even that's up in the air at this point.
> 
> Only The Rock coming back would give WWE the boost it needs... but issue is he'd need to put guys on current roster over and (try to) make them stars. However how many guys actually have that potential mega-star quality in them? And furthermore, Rock would need to put over more than one guy to really set the company up. Plus... if Rock were to show up, you know it's a match with Reigns we'd get. Which I'm not against in it of itself, but when you factor in that Reigns has already most likely been maxed out in how high he can go, it's just going back to the same problems they've had for a long time. Sure a match like Rock/Reigns is the biggest match WWE could do at this point (except something like Rock/Lesnar), but it's a short term boost. Constantly going for short term boosts rather than trying to make stars is what's been the problem for the longest time.
> 
> Sure, you have Goldberg put over Braun Strowman at Mania this year. However we all know the only reason that happened is because Reigns pulled out. Strowman gets no build up leading into the match, just is randomly thrown in, wins, and while it's a nice win for him, it doesn't mean as much without the build up. Plus consider that to get to Goldberg/Reigns, they stupidly had Goldberg go over The Fiend. The Fiend, who was arguably their hottest rising star for the months before that Goldberg match. Even forgetting about Goldberg, plans called for Fiend and all that build up to be sacrificed to Reigns at Mania anyway.
> 
> This idea that everything revolves around one guy is what's killed the business. Part-timers/stars put over the one guy first and foremost. Then maybe they'll put over other guys shortly afterwards with diminishing effects - but it doesn't mean as much. McIntyre's win over Lesnar was nice, but it comes after Lesnar put over Reigns, and then Rollins multiple times the year prior. I like McIntyre - I think he's a decent choice as the top guy. However even his rise is on the show with what will naturally have the lower viewership between Raw and Smackdown given the networks they're on.
> 
> Keep in mind the biggest matches with full-timers WWE can do right now (not counting Reigns since he's out) are McIntyre vs. Fiend, Strowman vs. Fiend, Strowman vs. McIntyre... and do any of these matches feel like they could be a Wrestlemania main event? A Mania that you'd aim to make one of the most successful Wrestlemanias of all time?
> 
> This is what years of doing the above, as well as pulling the rug out from underneath anybody when they get red hot (Barrett 2014, Rusev 2018, Sandow 2015, Cesaro 2014, Zack Ryder 2011, Strowman when he was red hot in 2016) will do to the company. Not that EVERY one of those guys needed to be main eventers, but even for trying to make them strong mid-carders that could draw in that part of the card and have people invested... they didn't even try with any of those guys except maybe Strowman and Barrett. Bryan getting the WM30 main event was a fluke as well - he was initially penciled in to face Sheamus in a midcard match for crying out loud.
> 
> I'm saying nothing new here, but yeah... the fact this is the best number they can do at this point is due to years and years of shit like the above. Even dating back before Reigns' rise. This goes back to the Cena era.


Imagine if they had done the same thing in the 1980s or 1990s when a wrestler caught on organically, or if they decided to ruin a wrestler “just to make a point”. You would have lost out on:

Randy Savage (as a face)
Jake Roberts (as a face)
Roddy Piper (as a face)
Honkytonk Man would have stayed a face
Shawn Michaels would have remained a heel in 1995
Diesel would have remained an afterthought after the 1994 Royal Rumble
Steve Austin would have remained a JTTS (and he was jobbing heavily in early 1996)
Dwayne Johnson would have remained happy go lucky Rocky Miavia
John Cena would have been released in 2003


----------



## Seafort

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Also something else to consider - they were doing better numbers back in June for Raw. June... when McIntyre/Ziggler was the main program (can't remember if Edge/Orton's program was here or in May). We're now in August - on the road to Summerslam. This number, where they seemingly put effort in to make it feel different and try to keep you hooked throughout... can't beat numbers in June.


Damage is done. It can take many weeks, if not many months to rebuild a fan base.


----------



## llj

Seafort said:


> Damage is done. It can take many weeks, if not many months to rebuild a fan base.


I'd say unless they catch lightning in a bottle with someone and the mainstream media picks up on it, it will take years to get a fanbase back, and that's if they do EVERYTHING right every week. Since that is unlikely, the slide will likely continue on


----------



## Prosper

Seafort said:


> Damage is done. It can take many weeks, if not many months to rebuild a fan base.


It also takes a considerable amount of time to build talent. They literally have no credible talent on the show to root for except Orton, Sasha Banks, AJ Styles, Edge, and McIntyre. Everyone is a jobber. It’s not even about building big stars at this point anymore, they’re at the point where they just need to start building talent in a general sense. Any talent. Just pick somebody FFS. I mean Mustafa Ali just made his big return and they jobbed him out to Lashley, now he’s back on “Main Event”. Like seriously?

They have some serious work to do and it’s not gonna happen overnight or in 6 months even.


----------



## llj

prosperwithdeen said:


> It also takes a considerable amount of time to build talent. They literally have no credible talent on the show to root for except Orton, Sasha Banks, AJ Styles, Edge, and McIntyre. Everyone is a jobber. It’s not even about building big stars at this point anymore, they’re at the point where they just need to start building talent in a general sense. Any talent. Just pick somebody FFS. I mean Mustafa Ali just made his big return and they jobbed him out to Lashley, now he’s back on “Main Event”. Like seriously?
> 
> They have some serious work to do and it’s not gonna happen overnight or in 6 months even.


Even those names you listed don't move the needle an inch. I don't even see much numerical evidence there is significant difference between them and the 20th guy on the roster in terms of being an impact star. People may have cared about Orton, AJ, Sasha, Edge once. But not anymore.

And that's the fault of this company who flattens everyone into the machine.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Numbers are different now. In 1999, 18 million people watched NCIS on average, 14 million friends. They were #1 and #5. This year? #1 7.8 million, #5 3.9 million.

Its just way different now. Raw pulled the equivalent of 5 million in 1999 last night. Very good rating. Against LeBron.


----------



## llj

TKO Wrestling said:


> Numbers are different now. In 1999, 18 million people watched NCIS on average, 14 million friends. They were #1 and #5. This year? #1 7.8 million, #5 3.9 million.
> 
> Its just way different now. Raw pulled the equivalent of 5 million in 1999 last night. Very good rating. Against LeBron.


A good rating by today's standards would be what 90 Day Fiance is doing. Around 3m viewers a week, scores very high on their target demos (females).

And it's much cheaper than RAW and Smackdown too. Yes, RAW and Smackdown give you "live" content every week but at the numbers they bring for the amount USA and Fox pay for them, they are definitely not getting their money's worth. And unlike sports which has playoff months where numbers shoot straight up, wrestling has no playoff months. It USED to be Wrestlemania season, but those haven't produced a bump in those months since 2018. 2019 and 2020's Wrestlemania seasons produced almost no bump for those years.


----------



## Prosper

llj said:


> Even those names you listed don't move the needle an inch. I don't even see much numerical evidence there is significant difference between them and the 20th guy on the roster in terms of being an impact star. People may have cared about Orton, AJ, Sasha, Edge once. But not anymore.
> 
> And that's the fault of this company who flattens everyone into the machine.


They should forget about moving the needle for the next 2 months and just build a foundation first. The Summerslam card is atrocious. They need a rock to build on before they can even think about moving ratings. If I were Vince I would beg USA to take the product off the air for 2 weeks after SSlam so they can start from scratch. Things are only gonna get worse as it stands.


----------



## llj

prosperwithdeen said:


> They should forget about moving the needle for the next 2 months and just build a foundation first. The Summerslam card is atrocious. They need a rock to build on before they can even think about moving ratings. If I were Vince I would beg USA to take the product off the air for 2 weeks so they can start from scratch.


Well, by early 2021 it's very possible that Fox and USA will be trying to find ways to wriggle out of their contracts anyway lol. If RAW and Smackdown is averaging 500k or so viewers by 2022, do you think USA and Fox would still be willing to pay the billion or so dollars they have for those deals? Somehow I doubt it. And these are 5 year deals, IIRC. By year 3 these deals are gonna look ugly if they continue to slide the way they have been.


----------



## Prosper

llj said:


> Well, by early 2021 it's very possible that Fox and USA will be trying to find ways to wriggle out of their contracts anyway lol. If RAW and Smackdown is averaging 500k or so viewers by 2022, do you think USA and Fox would still be willing to pay the billion or so dollars they have for those deals? Somehow I doubt it. And these are 5 year deals, IIRC. By year 3 these deals are gonna look ugly if they continue to slide the way they have been.


I’m sure they’re already talking about it. They’re not getting the ad revenue they expected. RAW’s entire audience is a lot bigger than 1.6 million, but for the advertisers/network, they’re not getting their money’s worth from the cable segment of that overall audience. It’s not that hard I don’t see what the problem is. It’s just pro wrestling. Vince has 35 years of experience and he’s acting like he’s never booked a wrestling show before. We call him senile but he’s not. He runs a multi million dollar business so his head is still there and he still has his brain.


----------



## Ger

Weren`t the NXT shows with Sasha & Bayley in them the only ones who beat AEW?


----------



## DaSlacker

Worth noting that NBC paid 166 million dollars per year for the English Premiere League, 5 years ago. That's 380 games per year at 2.5 hours per game (i.e 950 hours worth of content per year). Each game attracts on average 450,000 viewers. WWE is averaging 1.7 million viewers and providing them with 260 hours worth of content (NXT included). So in a way it kind of falls in line, even in its depleted condition.

I think WWE got really really lucky by splitting both Raw and SmackDown between two different networks at the right time. That's where their luck might run out. Though if the TV rights bubble bursts, it will be wrestling which takes the first hit.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Bad booking, bad storylines, things dropped too quickly, bait and switch is the factors on why the ratings are dropping. Not the individual talents. Wake up Op and stop being bitter because Sasha/Bayley finally has the spotlight.


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.728M | - 30.65% ]
> [ - 0.297D | - 36.67% ]*


Horrific ratings. Even worse than last week Y-Y. WWE has permanently lost a staggering 30% of their audience since last year alone, and those people are never coming back. Ever.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RT1981 said:


> Vince needs to wake up and get these 2 off the show before they run whats left of the fans away.


*So I told you I'd be back with yet another Sasha Banks ratings spike in the second hour. Fight club was advertised for hour 3, so don't even try it. *



JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.710M [15th] | 0.480D [6th]
> V2 | D2: 1.824M [12th] | 0.550D [4th]
> V3 | D3: 1.610M [18th] | 0.510D [5th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.715M | 0.513D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ + 0.114M | + 6.68% ]
> [ + 0.070D | + 14.58% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.214M | - 11.73% ]
> [ - 0.040D | - 7.27% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.100M | - 5.85% ]
> [ + 0.030D | + 6.25% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ + 0.098M | + 6.19% ]
> [ + 0.036D | + 7.55% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.728M | - 30.65% ]
> [ - 0.297D | - 36.67% ]*


*I'm ready for your thread about them being massive draws. Keep that same energy.*


----------



## ClintDagger

DaSlacker said:


> Worth noting that NBC paid 166 million dollars per year for the English Premiere League, 5 years ago. That's 380 games per year at 2.5 hours per game (i.e 950 hours worth of content per year). Each game attracts on average 450,000 viewers. WWE is averaging 1.7 million viewers and providing them with 260 hours worth of content (NXT included). So in a way it kind of falls in line, even in its depleted condition.
> 
> I think WWE got really really lucky by splitting both Raw and SmackDown between two different networks at the right time. That's where their luck might run out. Though if the TV rights bubble bursts, it will be wrestling which takes the first hit.


Have you seen the sponsors they get for that though? It’s like Nike, Tagheuer, Lexus, etcetera. Compare that to Snickers, Progressive, Popeye’s, and Little Caesar’s.


----------



## Not Lying

Seafort said:


> And to be clear, it started when WWE began the first of its long-term heel champion reigns in Seth Rollins, and they doubled down on the situation by making him a weak, Honkytonk Man type of champion who needed constant interference to win most of his matches. That spring of 2015 was when the real plunge started.


How does this disapprove what I said? I'm just saying even before the women's revolution there was a huge decrease between July 14/july 15 even before the women's revolution.
Spring 2015 sucked for sure, I don't remember much of Seth's reign, I think Ambrose was his challenger and Ambrose wasn't booked accordingly, and the thing is, since then you had people complaining about RAW being 3h, El Torito and Hornswoggle, a lot of random matches with no meaning. This ain't nothing new.


----------



## .christopher.

We've got to the point where fools deem a 1.7 to be a good rating. 

Give it a few more months, lads, and the same people will be saying that RAW did well to get 900 thousand people watching. "Well, we were _this close _to a million! "

The slide continues.


----------



## Rozzop

It's dead. They don't even have main eventers. Everyone is a 50/50 jobber having back and forth flip flopping contests that mean nothing. 

Is Rollins a midcarder? Main eventer? 

What about Ziggler? Loses every match he has for about two years then gets a title shot. Why does anybody care about Ziggler? He's been on the roster for what seems like decades now. 

Black gets the most wins on the roster in 2020, is he a main eventer, midcarder, he isn't even on the show anymore. 

Is Mcintyre a main eventer or just someone holding the title? Nobody knows. 

Nobody has any credibility. Sunday night heat featured more stars than present day Raw does. 

The matches are the most boring part of the show because they are all the same and mean absolutely nothing. 

When you condition your audience to not care about anyone why be surprised if no one watches. 

The women are the most pushed on the show. Nobody wants to watch weak womens wrestling that resembles a high school pillow fight. The ones that do are the only ones still watching. 

Now we have Raw underground with no name bland fighters trying to copy UFC. It's a step away from the kindergarten stuff but again, why would anybody care?


----------



## RT1981

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *So I told you I'd be back with yet another Sasha Banks ratings spike in the second hour. Fight club was advertised for hour 3, so don't even try it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ready for your thread about them being massive draws. Keep that same energy.*


Shane O Mac was the one to bring the viewers in so try again fanboy.


----------



## Seafort

The Definition of Technician said:


> How does this disapprove what I said? I'm just saying even before the women's revolution there was a huge decrease between July 14/july 15 even before the women's revolution.
> Spring 2015 sucked for sure, I don't remember much of Seth's reign, I think Ambrose was his challenger and Ambrose wasn't booked accordingly, and the thing is, since then you had people complaining about RAW being 3h, El Torito and Hornswoggle, a lot of random matches with no meaning. This ain't nothing new.


It’s not. The decline (beyond normal audience attrition that all of cable is experiencing) definitely took place. I could be wrong, but I think the acceleration in the ratings decline began in the spring in 2015 when Seth became champion. I don’t have the numbers in front of me though.


----------



## cai1981

NEWS FLASH:

The women do not draw the houses or the ratings...good writing, interesting storylines, and a strong world champion or top star draw!

WWE has none of the above at the moment, so that coupled with shooting their shows at a warehouse equal low ratings. Randy Orton is being presented the best he has in over a decade and arguably his entire career so putting him as champion may help.

As for Sasha and Bayley, the women's division is weak and there is no Becky or Charlotte to be their foils. Also, the company blew through their stockpile of the prototypical blonde bombshells that they wanted to make their top female stars (Alexa, Lacey, Liv...) as they proved to not be top star material...they ruined any chance of doing so with Alexa as they had her blow through the roster with clean wins as a heel when they could have had her cheat her way to those wins and have new life as an underdog babyface down the road.

If booked right, they can have Sasha and Bayley elevate the rest of the field...it can work with Asuka as she can go in a mean streak which was teased on Monday and with Nikki who can snap and go on a tear.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RT1981 said:


> Shane O Mac was the one to bring the viewers in so try again fanboy.


*If that were true, the first hour would've had the biggest spike because he was advertised an hour before RAW on WWE social media. Strike two.*


----------



## ClintDagger

I do see some people trying to say these are good numbers. That these numbers are akin to 5 million viewers years ago. That everything is fine, etcetera. What I would ask is, why is wwe constantly firing writers and trying new concepts that are clearly outside of their comfort zone if these ratings are just fine? I mean, that defies logic to me. It is very clear to me that WWE knows these numbers are bad and need to be turned around very quickly.


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> I do see some people trying to say these are good numbers. That these numbers are akin to 5 million viewers years ago. That everything is fine, etcetera. What I would ask is, why is wwe constantly firing writers and trying new concepts that are clearly outside of their comfort zone if these ratings are just fine? I mean, that defies logic to me. It is very clear to me that WWE knows these numbers are bad and need to be turned around very quickly.


The cable audience goal posts have shifted so people's expectations are low AF now. Things are so bad that going from 1.4 in the third hour back up to 1.6 is a victory. Its like going from nuclear bad back up to terribly bad.


----------



## RT1981

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *If that were true, the first hour would've had the biggest spike because he was advertised an hour before RAW on WWE social media. Strike two.*


noone is watching cause of Sasha Banks in her current chracter give it up dude.

If Sasha would become the Boss again and finally turn on Bayley and beat the living the shIt out of her I would agree Sasha would be a huge draw but again in her current troll chracter she not cause noone wants to see her in Bayley's shadow they want her on her own being the Boss again.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RT1981 said:


> noone is watching cause of Sasha Banks in her current chracter give it up dude.
> 
> If Sasha would become the Boss again and finally turn on Bayley and beat the living the shIt out of her I would agree Sasha would be a huge draw but again in her current troll chracter she not cause noone wants to see her in Bayley's shadow they want her on her own being the Boss again.


*Except you're wrong about no one wanting to watch Sasha and you will always be wrong as long as you continue to argue with established facts to push a nonsensical agenda.*


----------



## RT1981

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Except you're wrong about no one wanting to watch Sasha and you will always be wrong as long as you continue to argue with established facts to push a nonsensical agenda.*


its more my hate for Bayley. I like Sasha on her own and want her out of this annoying troll chracter and back to being The Boss but together I can't stand either one they annoying with turn the channel heat.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RT1981 said:


> its more my hate for Bayley. I like Sasha on her own and want her out of this annoying troll chracter and back to being The Boss but together I can't stand either one they annoying with turn the channel heat.


*I respect your honesty. While it is true that we've been tired of Sasha being Bayley's lackey, that hasn't been the case since they won the tag titles because Sasha has established herself as the alpha once again, and it's only a matter of time before she breaks away and wins the SmackDown Women's Championship.*


----------



## Ace

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *So I told you I'd be back with yet another Sasha Banks ratings spike in the second hour. Fight club was advertised for hour 3, so don't even try it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ready for your thread about them being massive draws. Keep that same energy.*


 Yeah and Sasha has been involved in several of the lowest drawing main events in Raw history.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Raw Underground was a big hit with women, younger demos


The week-over-week improvement in third hour ratings this week were eye-popping. Was Shane McMahon’s fight club a one hit wonder, or will these new viewers be back next Monday?




www.cagesideseats.com





DEMO GOD!!!


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

Not surprised people don't actually like Wrestling anymore.


----------



## IronMan8

I knew it would.

I actually think WWE _has_ been listening to hardcore fans in recent years and that’s partially why they’ve continued to become so uncool.

For example, after Raw underground aired, I heard a podcast where they unanimously complained about everything being different, including the women dancing etc.

Yes, they didn’t like hot women dancing in an underground club.

Think about that.

Then, they basically said they just wanted more in-ring action like normal, even though it’s boring for most people.

“Why did the hurt business lose? It makes them look like geeks” and then later in the episode “they looked like stars at the end of the show though”.

They looked like stars. They looked cool. But they unanimously agreed it sucked.

Right.

I think might be time to start ignoring the twitter crowd and start appealing to a wider audience again.

I also wouldn’t be surprise if Shane had some advice from some old friends either. I mean, the internet complains while the ratings go up... sound familiar?


----------



## Ace

IronMan8 said:


> I knew it would.
> 
> I actually think WWE _has_ been listening to fans in recent years and that’s partially why they’ve become so lame.
> 
> For example, after Raw underground aired, I heard a podcast where they complained about everything different, including the women dancing etc.
> 
> Yes, they didn’t like hot women dancing in an underground club.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Then, they said they just wanted more in-ring action like normal.
> 
> I think might be time to start ignoring the twitter crowd and start appealing to a wider audience again.
> 
> I also wouldn’t be surprise if one of Shane’s old friends was involved either. I mean, the internet complains while the ratings go up... sound familiar?


 Honestly the strippers dancing weren't even any good. If you're going to have dancers go all the way with it - less clothes and more seductive.

What we got was something in between, they never committed to it as they didn't want backlash because of their whole womens empowerment push.


----------



## The Wood

Twisted Blissfit said:


> Not surprised people don't actually like Wrestling anymore.


Normally I like your posts (unless I'm confusing you with another Bliss poster, haha -- sorry if that's the case), but this was closer to wrestling than most of what the WWE actually does. Guys talking shit, testosterone-driven shit with actual take-downs and the like. It's a little "extra" in the sense that this could have just been studio wrestling without the need to make it feel like a "fight club" or whatever, but its DNA was much closer to pro-wrestling than most of what you see out there.



Ace said:


> Honestly the strippers dancing weren't even any good. If you're going to have dancers go all the way with it - less clothes and more seductive.
> 
> What we got was something in between, they never committed to it as they didn't want backlash because of their whole womens empowerment push.


That's something that can be fixed in time. And if the WWE were smart, they could find a way to use this to springboard these women to more over positions. Do personality pieces. Maybe segue them into a reality show (not my cup of tea, but it's a lot of people's). Put out calendars and maybe one that has an interesting personality can become a valet or something down the line. There's nothing wrong with this being a valuable position to focus on women that have appeal but don't belong in the ring.


----------



## MoxAsylum

IronMan8 said:


> I knew it would.
> 
> I actually think WWE _has_ been listening to hardcore fans in recent years and that’s partially why they’ve continued to become so uncool.
> 
> For example, after Raw underground aired, I heard a podcast where they unanimously complained about everything being different, including the women dancing etc.
> 
> Yes, they didn’t like hot women dancing in an underground club.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Then, they basically said they just wanted more in-ring action like normal, even though it’s boring for most people.
> 
> “Why did the hurt business lose? It makes them look like geeks” and then later in the episode “they looked like stars at the end of the show though”.
> 
> They looked like stars. They looked cool. But they unanimously agreed it sucked.
> 
> Right.
> 
> I think might be time to start ignoring the twitter crowd and start appealing to a wider audience again.
> 
> I also wouldn’t be surprise if Shane had some advice from some old friends either. I mean, the internet complains while the ratings go up... sound familiar?


I completely loved everything about underground. Way better than anything AEW has offered us...


----------



## Ace

MoxAsylum said:


> I completely loved everything about underground. Way better than anything AEW has offered us...


Agree to disagree.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Yeah and Sasha has been involved in several of the lowest drawing main events in Raw history.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291165571980103684
*Sasha's the top draw of RAW and she knows it. Stay mad about it 😃*


----------



## Passing Triangles

Half naked women in wrestling will _always _pull in the casual male audience. There's never a point in history that men _won't _succumb to biological impulse and flip the channel onto the programme that caters to that base desire. Hardly a surprise that the segments did brilliantly. Chaos, sex and brutality sell. Always have, always will. Probably will also bring back those rowdy crowds too.


----------



## Ace

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291165571980103684
> *Sasha's the top draw of RAW and she knows it. Stay mad about it 😃*


 Yeah, I'll stay 'mad' at the history books having Sasha's main events and matches in the lowest rated hours in Raw history lmfao.


----------



## The Wood

Would be pretty smart to try and take Raw Underground on the road (if it's working) when crowds are welcome back. Remember, the ECW revival was supposed to be a Shane project too back in the day.


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> Would be pretty smart to try and take Raw Underground on the road (if it's working) when crowds are welcome back. Remember, the ECW revival was supposed to be a Shane project too back in the day.


And it was a piece of crap compared to the original.
So, this show was a hit with women and young males (that demographic is strange btw.. There´s a HUGE difference in the taste and behavior of a 15 year old male and a 34 year old male). If they break it even more down, I wouldn´t be surprised if it was the teens who liked it..that 18-49 range only gained 9% compared to the week before


----------



## CMPunkRock316

NXT Underground to compete with AEW in the younger demos CONFIRMED?


----------



## Victor86

Not just the brutality but the fact that the physical encounters were short and to the point . I have always said that the 20 min 5* matches not only doesn’t sell but are instant sleep/ channel changer for most audiences .

People wants to see a guy beats up and destroys other guys not some flippy back and forth 20 min snooze fest no matter how many flashy moves it has in it.

A group of roided angry black guys going in the ring and beating the crap out of smaller guys in seconds will always draw way more than if said black guys are trading wins and trying to beat another guy for 20 min.

In all real fighting sports a great fight means one guy beats the crap out of another guy with a round 1 knockout.

In ufc technical guys like DC were never liked because their style was too slow for people to care while guys like Connor always were way better received becuase the guy would go straight for the knockout and that’s what people want to see. Not some 5 rounds snooze fest every match .

WWE can turn this into a good mine if they play it right but it needs some polishing .

For one-there need to be a world champion - there must be a point for why all these guys wants to get in the ring.

- for two,as matches in this format are usually much shorter and they can get more guys/ fights per hour, they should to this entire platform a tournament style. Get bunch of guys who eliminate each other in bracket format and the winner of the tournament gets to fight the champion at the PPV for the title .

- Another thing that this can benefit is to host it in different arenas similar to how Street fighter games are: Have it done in bars, yachts ,random streets ,underground cages etc.

Finally this is the perfect platform for legends to have matches . Taker vs Sting for example in a short 1-2 min fight where one knocks the other would be easily done . Goldberg getting in and spearing/ ground and pound some guys , then standing up saying “Who’s next ?”, etc -Great way to get some legends have cool fun matchups without torturing them with asking them to have 20 min back and forth matches with dozens of moves and getting crazy bumps .

Let’s see how it plays out


----------



## RainmakerV2

They need to go for it and make the entire 3rd hour RAW underground. Go TV 14, get some blood in there, showing some real skin on the chicks. Why not? What do you have to lose? Twitter complaining about womens empowerment? Blow me.


----------



## IronMan8

Ace said:


> Honestly the strippers dancing weren't even any good. If you're going to have dancers go all the way with it - less clothes and more seductive.
> 
> What we got was something in between, they never committed to it as they didn't want backlash because of their whole womens empowerment push.


They were amateur strippers dancing against a pole in their underwear.

You’re seriously sitting there and critiqueing the way they stripped?

Come on... but you know, I bet the very moment you saw them, you weren’t sitting there analysing their stripping ability. Which is why the internet is misrepresentative of how people really reacted - people often remember wrong when explaining away past behaviour. 

What you see on the internet is always a rationalisation made after the fact. It’s rarely an accurate reflection of what someone actually felt in the moment and this is why I hope they stop listening to the fans.


----------



## Kishido

Sex sells no matter if some feminist and other social warriors will cry


----------



## IronMan8

The Wood said:


> That's something that can be fixed in time. And if the WWE were smart, they could find a way to use this to springboard these women to more over positions. Do personality pieces. Maybe segue them into a reality show (not my cup of tea, but it's a lot of people's). Put out calendars and maybe one that has an interesting personality can become a valet or something down the line. There's nothing wrong with this being a valuable position to focus on women that have appeal but don't belong in the ring.


Currently, under 1% of Raw viewers are males under 35.

More strippers would attract a higher number in the young male demographic.

What they did was already smart for a first night of change. Over time, if they believe a dancer‘s personality is money in real life, then she could organically transition into an expanded role.

The next Stacey Keibler is going to be ratings for the young male demo, but it will always come at a cost to the women’s empowerment movement. There is no reconciling this dichotomy of philosophies.

WWE are being forced to decide between ratings and women’s empowerment.

What we saw last Raw was a shift in philosophy towards ratings.

At the end of the day, the market will decide WWE’s purported morals.


----------



## Chan Hung

It TELLS a lot when the best rated part of the show is nothing to do really with RAW lmfao!!!!!


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Would be pretty smart to try and take Raw Underground on the road (if it's working) when crowds are welcome back. Remember, the ECW revival was supposed to be a Shane project too back in the day.


Its not even a thing yet just an attempt to pop ratings. Underground won't exist when crowds are back!!


----------



## Ace

IronMan8 said:


> They were amateur strippers dancing against a pole in their underwear.
> 
> You’re seriously sitting there and critiqueing the way they stripped?
> 
> Come on... but you know, I bet the very moment you saw them, you weren’t sitting there analysing their stripping ability. Which is why the internet is misrepresentative of how people really reacted - people often remember wrong when explaining away past behaviour.
> 
> What you see on the internet is always a rationalisation made after the fact. It’s rarely an accurate reflection of what someone actually felt in the moment and this is why I hope they stop listening to the fans.


 1) they couldn't dance
2) They were fully clothed from what I saw


----------



## Seafort

RainmakerV2 said:


> They need to go for it and make the entire 3rd hour RAW underground. Go TV 14, get some blood in there, showing some real skin on the chicks. Why not? What do you have to lose? Twitter complaining about womens empowerment? Blow me.


You risk having FOX and/or USA canceling the shows from social pressure.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> You risk having FOX and/or USA canceling the shows from social pressure.


They'd the test the waters first though I agree objectifying women is playing with fire thesedays. Nevertheless, a lot of the stuff on USA and FOX is TV-14. Theoretically the increasingly obviously scripted/cinematic nature of WWE gives them ample opportunity to push the boundaries of edgy contest. Not that they'd go that far, but nobody complains of a controversial plot on 9-1-1 or crazy scene on American Horror Story. Unlike in 1999, when reality and fiction was still quite blurred due the kayfabe history of pro wrestling, they've never been so well placed to open things up. However, none of it would be particularly effective if they keep playing for laughs. 

Might annoy a few family concerned sponsors (Mattel, Disney come to mind). Yet if they keep shedding their audience and modern content online video upload views are stagnant, they'll lose them anyway.


----------



## Zappers

RainmakerV2 said:


> They need to go for it and make the entire 3rd hour RAW underground. Go TV 14, get some blood in there, showing some real skin on the chicks. Why not? What do you have to lose? Twitter complaining about womens empowerment? Blow me.


That would seal their fate. Not to mention admit to pure desperation.

They need more segments like what Kevin Owens did with the IIconics and Ruby/Liv. Allow the talent the room to expand and express themselves on TV. It connects the wrestlers more with the audience.


----------



## Zappers

IronMan8 said:


> They were amateur strippers dancing against a pole in their underwear.


They weren't strippers, they weren't in their underwear, and there wasn't a pole.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Seafort said:


> You risk having FOX and/or USA canceling the shows from social pressure.



USA aint cancelling shit. WWE is the only thing that keeps them relevant as a network and they know it.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Is The Rock kicking RAW's ass on monday night with The Titan Games?


And WWE let him go, Vince McMahon a billionaire that should be a trillionaire.


----------



## .christopher.

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291165571980103684
> *Sasha's the top draw of RAW and she knows it. Stay mad about it 😃*


That explains why WWE's numbers are sinking faster than a turd in water.

As expected, it won't take long for WWE to sink to AEW numbers. They'll both be battling to stay above a million in due course.


----------



## ClintDagger

.christopher. said:


> That explains why WWE's numbers are sinking faster than a turd in water.
> 
> As expected, it won't take long for WWE to sink to AEW numbers. They'll both be battling to stay above a million in due course.


AEW doesn’t get a million viewers do they? Maybe a couple of times around the debut? I think it’s more likely that they’ll both be struggling to stay above 500k in the not too distant future. WWE’s struggles to stay above a million are already upon us and AEW’s ability to do that faded away long ago.


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> AEW doesn’t get a million viewers do they? Maybe a couple of times around the debut? I think it’s more likely that they’ll both be struggling to stay above 500k in the not too distant future. WWE’s struggles to stay above a million are already upon us and AEW’s ability to do that faded away long ago.


The difference though is that AEW being at 750-800K+ on average is a good thing for them because that’s what TNT expected and are happy with it. To the point of extending them for 3 years. And this past week they did 901K. AEW’s 900K in TNT’s eyes is equivalent to RAW doing a 3.0 rating or better on USA. Because they didn’t pay a billion dollars for it. They got AEW for cheap. And they’re constantly top 5 in the demo, which is the most important thing. AEW is doing very well. They won’t be dropping to 500K and they are not struggling at all whatsoever.


----------



## Kentucky34

postmoderno said:


> Looks like da ratingz god seth drew big time in the third hour.


That was the best 3rd hour RAW has drawn in a while. 

You have to give Seth some of the credit for that number. He always lifts the numbers regardless of what hour he appears in. That's what the real stars do.


----------



## DammitChrist

Ugh, you're back. Go away.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Ugh, you're back. Go away.


Are you suggesting that Seth isn't the biggest draw in the industry?

If so explain how he isn't.

Personal insults are not welcomed.


----------



## ClintDagger

prosperwithdeen said:


> The difference though is that AEW being at 750-800K+ on average is a good thing for them because that’s what TNT expected and are happy with it. To the point of extending them for 3 years. And this past week they did 901K. AEW’s 900K in TNT’s eyes is equivalent to RAW doing a 3.0 rating or better on USA. Because they didn’t pay a billion dollars for it. They got AEW for cheap. And they’re constantly top 5 in the demo, which is the most important thing. AEW is doing very well. They won’t be dropping to 500K and they are not struggling at all whatsoever.


Pretty much agree with everything you said. Although I do think AEW will slowly bleed viewers as wrestling fans in general are a dying breed. And to say AEW isn’t struggling at all whatsoever is way too strong. They do lose to WWE’s “C” show from time to time which isn’t ideal. But yeah WWE is on a much hotter seat for sure.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

ClintDagger said:


> AEW doesn’t get a million viewers do they? Maybe a couple of times around the debut? I think it’s more likely that they’ll both be struggling to stay above 500k in the not too distant future. WWE’s struggles to stay above a million are already upon us and AEW’s ability to do that faded away long ago.





ClintDagger said:


> Pretty much agree with everything you said. Although I do think AEW will slowly bleed viewers as wrestling fans in general are a dying breed. And to say AEW isn’t struggling at all whatsoever is way too strong. They do lose to WWE’s “C” show from time to time which isn’t ideal. But yeah WWE is on a much hotter seat for sure.


I think this is a more objective way of looking at the WWE vs AEW ratings "war" It's more WWE falling to AEW's level than the latter rising up.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

IronMan8 said:


> I knew it would.
> 
> I actually think WWE _has_ been listening to hardcore fans in recent years and that’s partially why they’ve continued to become so uncool.
> 
> For example, after Raw underground aired, I heard a podcast where they unanimously complained about everything being different, including the women dancing etc.
> 
> Yes, they didn’t like hot women dancing in an underground club.
> 
> Think about that.
> 
> Then, they basically said they just wanted more in-ring action like normal, even though it’s boring for most people.
> 
> “Why did the hurt business lose? It makes them look like geeks” and then later in the episode “they looked like stars at the end of the show though”.
> 
> They looked like stars. They looked cool. But they unanimously agreed it sucked.
> 
> Right.
> 
> I think might be time to start ignoring the twitter crowd and start appealing to a wider audience again.
> 
> *I also wouldn’t be surprise if Shane had some advice from some old friends either. I mean, the internet complains while the ratings go up... sound familiar?*


Speaking of Shane, he can fuck off. The guy's been an integral part of loads of shit over the past few years from his interminable General Manager runs, to him taking WrestleMania spots with the insulting suggestion he can go with the likes of AJ Styles and even old man Undertaker.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Up 12K from last week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania




----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.811M [14th] | 0.500D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.754M [15th] | 0.460D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.601M [19th] | 0.460D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.722M | 0.473D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.057M | - 3.15% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 8.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.153M | - 8.72% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.210M | - 11.60% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 8.00% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.007M | + 0.41% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.80% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 1.007M | - 36.90% ]
[ - 0.444D | - 48.42% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Retribution, underground and ninjas = ratings bonanza


----------



## Pippen94

How'd 18-34 demo look?


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> How'd 18-34 demo look?


AEW beat RAW all three hours in persons 18-34.


----------



## Pippen94

Erik. said:


> AEW beat RAW all three hours in persons 18-34.


0.216 in 18-34
18-49 demo last week: 0.51
This: 0.47.


----------



## Kentucky34

Good job by Seth in hour 1. Creeping close to 2 million again.


----------



## Kentucky34

Erik. said:


> AEW beat RAW all three hours in persons 18-34.


RAW still has almost double the viewers.


----------



## Erik.

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW still has almost double the viewers.


Does it?

I'd never have guessed.


----------



## Frost99

WOW, that Antifi....I mean Retribution group acting all stunning & brave against INANIMATE OBJECTS really setting those ratings on fire, just look below......









​


----------



## Not Lying

RAW Underground and Orton/Flair still failed to draw lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> Does it?
> 
> I'd never have guessed.


18-34 isnt even a real demo lmao. Its goalpost moving by Alvarez and Meltzer. Stop parroting.


----------



## Erik.

Light the fuse. Bring the boom.


----------



## reamstyles

Breat Hart may not be individually charismatic but he make austin look very good the way he performs in matches..why he fail innwcw, he couldve made sting, goldberg, ddp,booker million bucks but no he phoned it..


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They beat all of the NBA and MLB games HANDILY last night, including the Lebron led Lakers:


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

What do we think WWE will be making of the ratings of the last 2 weeks?

Will they take genuine heart from the fact they're beating other sporting events in terms of total viewers, or be disappointed the total viewers of RAW itself are rising minusculely, and the main demo dropped by a greater proportion this week?


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW still has almost double the viewers.


Combine AEW and NXT and it’s about essentially even.


----------



## Prosper

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> What do we think WWE will be making of the ratings of the last 2 weeks?
> 
> Will they take genuine heart from the fact they're beating other sporting events in terms of total viewers, or be disappointed the total viewers of RAW itself are rising minisculely, and the main demo dropped by a greater proportion this week?


Nah they’ll be satisfied with beating major sports this week and take that as justification to keep coasting.


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 1.007M | - 36.90% ]*
> [ - 0.444D | - 48.42% ]


How is that even possible? Losing almost 50% of your demo...in a year. USA will cancel Raw. I have no doubt in my mind. You can't pay Raw what they are paying them for those demo numbers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> 18-34 isnt even a real demo lmao. Its goalpost moving by Alvarez and Meltzer. Stop parroting.







__





Key demographic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Really? lol...


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> They beat all of the NBA and MLB games HANDILY last night, including the Lebron led Lakers:


If you are going to use total viewers, they got destroyed by Fox News. 4.5 mils
If you are going to use demos, the NBA game, 90 day Fiance, and Below Deck all beat them.

You WWE fanboys are relentless. I mean, the show's lost almost 50% of it's demo in a year, and over a million viewers, and you still want to parrot some positivity? You're all lying to yourselves about just how awful their ratings are.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> 18-34 isnt even a real demo lmao.


Then why does ShowBuzzDaily report the P18-34?





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.10.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> If you are going to use total viewers, they got destroyed by Fox News. 4.5 mils
> If you are going to use demos, the NBA game, 90 day Fiance, and Below Deck all beat them.
> 
> You WWE fanboys are relentless. I mean, the show's lost almost 50% of it's demo in a year, and over a million viewers, and you still want to parrot some positivity? You're all lying to yourselves about just how awful their ratings are.


If Raw were to lose to all of them in overall veiwers, people would be shitting on them. They beat them in overall viewers, and its still bad. LOL. This place is awful. It's no wonder no one posts here anymore. Rightfully so.

I don't give a fuck what happens to WWE or wrestling, in general. I got a wife, a kid, and a career. Just know this; if WWE were ever to go out of business, the wrestling business in the US would be fucked for a long ass time, if not forever, or at least many year. I hate current day Vince with an absolute PASSION. But rooting for WWE's failure is only going to hurt the wrestling business, not help. If it would help, I'd actually might be okay with them going out of business. But it won't help, it will hurt.


----------



## reamstyles

I think vince allowing his son to take the idea of the underground thing fornthe third hour is better late than never


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> If you are going to use total viewers, they got destroyed by Fox News. 4.5 mils
> If you are going to use demos, the NBA game, 90 day Fiance, and Below Deck all beat them.
> 
> You WWE fanboys are relentless. I mean, the show's lost almost 50% of it's demo in a year, and over a million viewers, and you still want to parrot some positivity? You're all lying to yourselves about just how awful their ratings are.


Yet Raw still gets twice the viewers of AEW and more than any sports broadcast on cable. 

Yes some of that is down to Seth but WWE is still the biggest game in town regardless.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> They beat them in overall viewers, and its still bad.


Yes, because the over 55+ age viewers propping up the total viewership doesn't mean very much. Yes, they exist. But they don't watch the NBA or MLB. Most do watch Fox News, which is why Fox crushes everyone in viewers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes, because the over 55+ age viewers propping up the total viewership doesn't mean very much. Yes, they exist. But they don't watch the NBA or MLB. Most do watch Fox News, which is why Fox crushes everyone in viewers.


I miss the Monday Night Wars when we compared Raw vs. Nitro demos and not the overall numbers. Or the era after that, or the era after that, and so on..

Oh, wait..


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> Yet Raw still gets twice the viewers of AEW and more than any sports broadcast on cable.
> 
> Yes some of that is down to Seth but WWE is still the biggest game in town regardless.


Is this supposed to be some kind of victory for WWE? AEW is one year old and their audience is half of RAW and SD’s. That’s nothing to celebrate for WWE. Doubling AEW numbers doesn’t change the fact that 1.7-1.9 cable viewers for both RAW and SD is astonishingly bad. And Seth Rollins is not making any kind of difference to anything. The brand is the draw at this point not Seth Rollins. No one is over.


----------



## Not Lying

Nobody gave a fuck about Orton punting Ric. Now we can move on from seeing this attention whore on screen. 
Start pushing new guys.


----------



## OwenSES

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nobody gave a fuck about Orton punting Ric. Now we can move on from seeing this attention whore on screen.
> Start pushing new guys.


The rating improved from last week so people gave more a fuck this week than last. 

Besides not everyone reads the dirtsheets and knew that Ric was being killed out this week. You won't know till next week if "nobody gave a fuck about Orton punting Ric"


----------



## Randy Lahey

OwenSES said:


> The rating improved from last week so people gave more a fuck this week than last.


Demo was down 8% from last week. Total viewers up a tiny tiny hair (less that 1/10 of 1 percent).

Safe to say Raw Underground didn’t create much buzz that stuck around, and Orton/Flair did nothing.


----------



## OwenSES

Randy Lahey said:


> Demo was down 8% from last week. Total viewers up a tiny tiny hair (less that 1/10 of 1 percent).
> 
> Safe to say Raw Underground didn’t create much buzz that stuck around, and Orton/Flair did nothing.


The Orton/Flair thing wasn't an advertised segment. You have to wait till next week to see if it did nothing.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW still has almost double the viewers.


And many of them will be dead in 10 years, probably from not wearing a mask.


----------



## Pippen94

OwenSES said:


> The Orton/Flair thing wasn't an advertised segment. You have to wait till next week to see if it did nothing.


Orton & Flair in 2020 won't do much


----------



## .christopher.

ClintDagger said:


> AEW doesn’t get a million viewers do they? Maybe a couple of times around the debut? I think it’s more likely that they’ll both be struggling to stay above 500k in the not too distant future. WWE’s struggles to stay above a million are already upon us and AEW’s ability to do that faded away long ago.


You're probably right, mate. This time next year 800k viewers will be seen as a successful week.


----------



## OwenSES

Pippen94 said:


> Orton & Flair in 2020 won't do much


It's not really about Flair. It's just keeping Orton as hot as possible to make the match at Summerslam bigger.


----------



## Pippen94

OwenSES said:


> It's not really about Flair. It's just keeping Orton as hot as possible to make the match at Summerslam bigger.


Where flair double crosses


----------



## OwenSES

Pippen94 said:


> Where flair double crosses


Could happen but like mentioned in the other thread, logically it doesn't really make sense. I think WWE just got tired of the heat they were getting for having Flair on TV duing Covid period so killed him off.


----------



## Kentucky34

I love Flair but he isn't what the fans want to see in 2020. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293532884855214080


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.730M [23rd] | 0.520D [9th]
V2 | D2: 1.697M [26th] | 0.490D [10th]
V3 | D3: 1.502M [29th] | 0.440D [13th]

3V | 3D: 1.643M | 0.483D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.033M | - 1.91% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.77% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.195M | - 11.49% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 10.20% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.228M | - 13.18% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 15.38% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.079M | - 4.59% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 2.11% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.891M | - 35.16% ]
[ - 0.327D | - 40.37% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Not a bad number with the competition they had.

Seth drew well again in the 2nd hour. Shame people didn't stick around for the GOAT but there was too much competition and McIntyre isn't a credible champion. Next week they will draw a good number.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Not bad considering all the competition last night: Democratic National Convention (Night 1), NBA Playoffs, Yankees vs. Red Sox, 90 Day Fiance. I mean, they've drawn 1.5 Hour 3's in the past without all of that competition.


----------



## postmoderno

Trash show does a trash rating. Seems about right.

The temporary intrigue from the antifa and underground angles has worn off.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I expected at least flat with the hype of Thunderdome and this lousy Retribution angle they are pushing.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

1.5M viewers in the third hour is just apocalyptically bad, yet it's almost mundane for me to even point that out.

It's really sad how far we done fell.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The go home show to SummerSlam did 1.64 mils....as Meltzer said a couple weeks ago, you think these numbers are bad, wait till Sept-October when the NFL is back. 40% demo drop in one year. When you lose 40-50% of your demo, in a year, there's no recovering from that. It going to be a bleed out till cancellation


----------



## RT1981

when the nfl returns they will fall below one million viewers.


----------



## SPCDRI

In 2016, against a DNC convention that had 7.8 million more people watching, RAW's worst hour was 3.2 million and its best was 3.4 million. The viewership is approximately chopped in half against the last time they went up against a DNC convention.


----------



## Pippen94

But underground & the dancers


----------



## Kentucky34

Even WWE's biggest haters are saying this wasn't a bad number. 

They did well in the demo in the first few hours. The Rollins vs Rey program and other stuff are drawing back younger fans a bit.


----------



## Erramayhem89

WWE is legit dead. I'm surprised anyone watches anymore. I mean today's product is significantly worst than 2009 and that is saying something.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

There are fans, myself included, who will basically refuse to watch WWE until someone other than Vince is running the company.

It's not like we don't care or we're "WWE haters!", it's just that we've reached a point where we can't subject ourselves to this water torture every week.


----------



## Kentucky34

1.2 million views in less than 24 hours. Very impressive.


----------



## Y2K23

Erramayhem89 said:


> WWE is legit dead. I'm surprised anyone watches anymore. I mean today's product is significantly worst than 2009 and that is saying something.


They have done it. As I watched Hornswaggle paint imaginary doors on walls and have midget courts or whatever I said to myself that theres was no freaking way it can get worse.

But they have done it, it's worse now. Bravo.


----------



## llj

Ratings are gonna be UGLY come October.

(I mean they are ugly now, but I think we're in for even more of a ride in the next few months)


----------



## CovidFan

One year ago:
*H1- 2.546M
H2- 2.634M
H3- 2.422M
3H- 2.534M*

You can clearly see that they've driven off 34% of their audience in the span of one year. This week wasn't progress. They have their ups and down but by end of year, they'll be at 1.4m which means they'll be regularly beaten by AEW/NXT combined and that's just sad.


----------



## ClintDagger

This thread used to be so much fun but now that what I and others predicted would happen many years ago has come true I don’t know what’s left to say. I guess the fact that those that were claiming there was a floor at 3MM, 2.9MM, 2.8MM etcetera are no longer saying anything about a floor is a plus.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Showstopper said:


> They beat all of the NBA and MLB games HANDILY last night, including the Lebron led Lakers:


To be fair the NBA killed their own ratings pushing political Marxist ideologies


----------



## DaSlacker

Why do I get the feeling that by the time they start taking genuine risks to turn Raw around it will be way too late.


----------



## Prosper

DaSlacker said:


> Why do I get the feeling that by the time they start taking genuine risks to turn Raw around it will be way too late.


That's what RAW Underground, the ANTIFA angle, and the Montez poisoning are. Those are all out of the box ideas/risks that they are trying to use to turn the ship around. Its not working, so its already too late. They need a consistent 18-24 months of good booking to get back on track and they're not willing to do that.


----------



## DaSlacker

prosperwithdeen said:


> That's what RAW Underground, the ANTIFA angle, and the Montez poisoning are. Those are all out of the box ideas/risks that they are trying to use to turn the ship around. Its not working, so its already too late. They need a consistent 18-24 months of good booking to get back on track and they're not willing to do that.


They're all a bit Kurt's lovechild/Deleters of Worlds/247 championship. Sticking plasters on a severe wound. For example, Retribution is interesting but comes off as hokey due to the way Dunn produces. Underground is cool but it's far from perfect. Adds to the lack of overall consistency - this meant to be 'real' yet that negates the gimmick matches and makes the cinematic stuff/247 stuff even more silly. Trying to be everything and succeeding at nothing comes to mind. Unless you're a WWE mark it just seems...confusing.

I meant more in the way of bold company decisions. Like when they cancelled 2 hour Prime Time Wrestling and premiered 1 hour Monday Night Raw. Or changed to Raw is War and gave a 30 something magazine writer the booking sheet. Dunn, McMahon and 9 hours of weekly content will sink them.


----------



## Prosper

DaSlacker said:


> They're all a bit Kurt's lovechild/Deleters of Worlds/247 championship. Sticking plasters on a severe wound. For example, Retribution is interesting but comes off as hokey due to the way Dunn produces. Underground is cool but it's far from perfect. Adds to the lack of overall consistency - this meant to be 'real' yet that negates the gimmick matches and makes the cinematic stuff/247 stuff even more silly. Trying to be everything and succeeding at nothing comes to mind. Unless you're a WWE mark it just seems...confusing.
> 
> I meant more in the way of bold company decisions. Like when they cancelled 2 hour Prime Time Wrestling and premiered 1 hour Monday Night Raw. Or changed to Raw is War and gave a 30 something magazine writer the booking sheet. Dunn, McMahon and 9 hours of weekly content will sink them.


Oh in that case, making RAW 2 hours would be a great start.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.140M [16th] | 0.720D [5th]
V2 | D2: 2.045M [21st] | 0.660D [7th]
V3 | D3: 1.900M [23rd] | 0.620D [9th]

3V | 3D: 2.028M | 0.667D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.095M | - 4.44% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 8.33% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.145M | - 7.09% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 6.06% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.240M | - 11.21% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 13.89% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.385M | + 23.43% ]
[ + 0.184D | + 38.10% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.500M | - 19.78% ]
[ - 0.130D | - 16.31% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

BIG bounce back:

H1: 2.140
H2: 2.045
H3: 1.900

That's gotta be the highest rated show and hour 3 in awhile for WWE, SD included. Fans stuck around for that Hour 3, as well. Happy for Seth/Dom/Rey.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Best P18-49 rating for Raw since the night after WM36.

And that is up against the first night of the Republican National Convention and a LeBron/Lakers playoff game.


----------



## postmoderno

Wow. Way better than what I was expecting for that mess of a show. Kudos to them, I guess.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

We will see where it goes. I mean they are throwing a lot out there and it is the night after their 2nd biggest PPV of the year (3rd if you count Rumble).

I haven't watched yet but will skim through at some point.


----------



## Pippen94

Show was real bad but gimmicks / reigns return drawing people in.


----------



## Not Lying

Good show + Thunderdome. These ratings will 100% bounce back up once fans are allowed back in.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Great rating and against the NBA too. Wrestling ratings has the been up since the NBA playoffs which was supposedly going to murder them started. Seth Rollins outdrawing Lebron haha.

Despite all the naysayers on here. Thunderdome is working and both shows is so much better now. There is also so many exciting rivalries and stories

Raw
Randy & Drew
Seth, Dom & Mysterio in a hot angle
Bailey, Sasha & Asuka story
Raw Underground
Hurt Business
And now we got Keith Lee plus a heel Aleister Black

Smackdown
Sasha & Bayley still killing it
Hot Mandy & Sonya angle
Bray being Bray...
Admittedly Smackdown is weaker but we got a badass Roman Reigns back about to wreck fools.
We just need Bryan back too.

Plus we got Retributioon on both brands.

I only started watching regularly again 4weeks ago when I heard of Raw Underground but the shows are way better than credit it gets on here. Especially Raw.
Glad the ratings are up and both the shows keep improving.


----------



## Prosper

Good bounce back to 2 million. I'm assuming Drew vs Orton, Keith Lee and the Thunderdome sparked interest.


----------



## llj

The Definition of Technician said:


> Good show + Thunderdome. These ratings will 100% bounce back up once fans are allowed back in.


I think it was more of a post-SummerSlam bump and Thunderdome. I will still settle back around 1.7-1.8 in a few weeks. But, SummerSlam got some positive buzz for them as it was the first WWE ppv in a while that got mostly good reviews, so this is the first time in a while they got a bump this big.


----------



## Chan Hung

Good way to move up in the ratings. The Roman hype helped...


----------



## God Movement

Thanks Roman.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Those marks who put Benoit and KKK images on their screen really helped their ratings.


----------



## Kentucky34

They tuned in for the Summerslam fallout and then stuck around for Seth. 

Good booking by WWE.


----------



## sideon

Fearless Viper said:


> Those marks who put Benoit and KKK images on their screen really helped their ratings.


Those hillbilly idiots might be the reason people tune out next week. As for the ratings i think the new arena is helping, but last night's show was one of the worst RAW episodes in quite awhile. Word is Vince changed everything at the last minute which would explain how awkward and downright bad everything was. I'm pretty sure SD will make up for the crapfest last night.


----------



## DaSlacker

SummerSlam bounce but they have been trying recently. Thunderdome and Underground is fresh. A mysterious masked antagonist is a timelessly easy way to draw interest. Reigns return. Mysterio family vs Rollins cult is good drama. Sasha and Bayley tease. Started good with injury angle.

It won't last. Re-writes never a good sign.


----------



## chronoxiong

Holy shit at that rating. Massive jump. I didn't expect that at all.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

The show was 
Entertaining


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hour 1: 2.1
Hour 2: 1.8
Hour 3: 1.7

1.897M average


Not bad against the NBA playoffs.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.104M [14th] | 0.630D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.882M [22nd] | 0.590D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.703M [25th] | 0.530D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.896M | 0.583D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.222M | - 10.55% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 6.35% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.179M | - 9.51% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 10.17% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.401M | - 19.06% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 15.87% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.132M | - 6.51% ]
[ - 0.084D | - 12.59% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.611M | - 24.37% ]
[ - 0.247D | - 29.76% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Not terrible, I suppose, but I think probably deserved better given the show itself and how decent Payback was.


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number. 

The audience is coming back.


----------



## Pippen94

Down from last week


----------



## llj

Um, that 2nd hour is pretty horrible tbh. 2.1 to 1.8 is a MASSIVE drop.


----------



## Kentucky34

llj said:


> Um, that 2nd hour is pretty horrible tbh. 2.1 to 1.8 is a MASSIVE drop.


Sports competition. 

Hour 2 and 3 actually drew very well.


----------



## llj

Kentucky34 said:


> Sports competition.
> 
> Hour 2 and 3 actually drew very well.


True, if it weren't for Rollins they would be doing sub 1 million in hour 3. Thank god for Seth.


----------



## RT1981

Raw has one more week and party over NFL is back.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RT1981 said:


> Raw has one more week and party over NFL is back.


You could say that for all the other shows as Regular NFL kills everything on TV by a distance including NBA playoffs.

But it will be interesting to see how high NFL ratings stay after the first couple of weeks once the no crowd effect really starts to kick in.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Down a bit from last week but still higher than before The Dome. I was underwhelmed last week when many said it was a good show. I will check it out tonight sometime. I think the NBA has shot itself in the ass. NFL is always a big draw even if their numbers are down they are usually still strong.


----------



## RT1981

Dark Emperor said:


> You could say that for all the other shows as Regular NFL skills everything on TV by a distance including NBA playoffs.
> 
> But it will be interesting to see how high NFL ratings stay after the first couple of weeks once the no crowd effect really starts to kick in.


I don't think having no fans will effect the NFL people love watching football here in the US.Its just a diffent beast then the other sports only thing that can slow them down if they have to shut down due to covid which I don't see happening cause so far doing traning camps all the teams and league are taking this serious so we will see how it goes.


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 2.104M [14th] | 0.630D [4th]
> V2 | D2: 1.882M [22nd] | 0.590D [6th]
> V3 | D3: 1.703M [25th] | 0.530D [7th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.896M | 0.583D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ - 0.132M | - 6.51% ]
> [ - 0.084D | - 12.59% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Looks like it was Thunderdome that popped them over 2 mils. They'll be back in the 1.7s and under till next January


----------



## DaSlacker

Third hour continuing to drag down the show.


----------



## llj

DaSlacker said:


> Third hour continuing to drag down the show.


Well this week the problem was the 2nd hour. 2.1 to 1.8 is really bad. 1.8 to 1.7 is pretty normal though


----------



## DaSlacker

llj said:


> Well this week the problem was the 2nd hour. 2.1 to 1.8 is really bad. 1.8 to 1.7 is pretty normal though


Very true, but looking at it from the bigger picture - the content is being spread over those 3 hours. 4 million were watching in 2013; the remaining 2.1 million viewers tune in and 300,000 instantly feel the chore. By the end of the night another 100,000 of found something more interesting, leaving those 1.4 to 1.7 million devout (for now) viewers. 

It's a complete race to the bottom in the long run. Though as WWE are taking big bucks for delivering extensive content it doesn't matter, for now.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

I'd thought I'd post the differences between the post Summerslam ratings this year, and the equivalent weeks in 2019.

*Viewership (8/24/20 Vs 8/12/19):
H1- 2.140M [16th] Vs 2.772M [4th]
H2- 2.045M [21st] Vs 2.820M [3rd]
H3- 1.900M [25th] Vs 2.595M [5th]
3H- 2.028M Vs 2.729M ( - 25.69% / - 0.701M )

Demo (8/24/20 Vs 8/12/19):
H1- 0.720D [5th] Vs 0.930D [2nd]
H2- 0.660D [7th] Vs 0.950D [1st]
H3- 0.620D [9th] Vs 0.870D [3rd]
3H- 0.667D Vs 0.917D ( - 27.26% / - 0.250D)


Viewership (8/31/20 Vs 8/19/19):
H1- 2.104M [16th] Vs 2.546M [6th]
H2- 1.882M [26th] Vs 2.634M [4th]
H3- 1.703M [31st] Vs 2.422M [9th]
3H- 1.896M Vs 2.534M ( - 25.18% / - 0.638M )

Demo (8/31/20 Vs 8/19/19):
H1- 0.630D [4th] Vs 0.790D [4th]
H2- 0.590D [6th] Vs 0.850D [2nd]
H3- 0.530D [7th] Vs 0.790D [3rd]
3H- 0.583D Vs 0.810D ( - 28.02% / - 0.227D)*


----------



## Kentucky34

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> I'd thought I'd post the differences between the post Summerslam ratings this year, and the equivalent weeks in 2019.
> 
> *Viewership (8/24/20 Vs 8/12/19):
> H1- 2.140M [16th] Vs 2.772M [4th]
> H2- 2.045M [21st] Vs 2.820M [3rd]
> H3- 1.900M [25th] Vs 2.595M [5th]
> 3H- 2.028M Vs 2.729M ( - 25.69% / - 0.701M )
> 
> Demo (8/24/20 Vs 8/12/19):
> H1- 0.720D [5th] Vs 0.930D [2nd]
> H2- 0.660D [7th] Vs 0.950D [1st]
> H3- 0.620D [9th] Vs 0.870D [3rd]
> 3H- 0.667D Vs 0.917D ( - 27.26% / - 0.250D)
> 
> 
> Viewership (8/31/20 Vs 8/19/19):
> H1- 2.104M [16th] Vs 2.546M [6th]
> H2- 1.882M [26th] Vs 2.634M [4th]
> H3- 1.703M [31st] Vs 2.422M [9th]
> 3H- 1.896M Vs 2.534M ( - 25.18% / - 0.638M )
> 
> Demo (8/31/20 Vs 8/19/19):
> H1- 0.630D [4th] Vs 0.790D [4th]
> H2- 0.590D [6th] Vs 0.850D [2nd]
> H3- 0.530D [7th] Vs 0.790D [3rd]
> 3H- 0.583D Vs 0.810D ( - 28.02% / - 0.227D)*


Rollins was champion last year.


----------



## RapShepard

Wrong thread


----------



## Kentucky34

I expect a drop this week. 

Their biggest draw wasn't on the show and nothing much was advertised beforehand.


----------



## Asuka842

This was an, interesting, Raw:

Cedric turning heel was refreshing. He desperately needed a reset and hopefully he can also find a personality.

Shesaro showing up was cool, at this point they should just unify the tag belts. There aren't enough teams to spread across two shows. Having one set of belts that all the teams can compete over would refresh things I think.

Speaking of tag teams, I hope Ivar is ok, that looked nasty.

Peyton vs. Billie was, not good unfortunately. Splitting them up was just a dumb move, they work so much better together than apart.

They continue to put Keith Lee over as a big deal, cool. 

Liv is only the fourth woman in WWE to pin Shayna, cool. Nia would have lost to if not for Retribution. Riott Squad NEED to win those tag belts finally, it's LONG overdue and it'd be the perfect payoff to their story. Also Nia and Shayna hating each other gives them an out.

Asuka vs. Mickie is a PPV-worthy match, I wish it was there. But I'm betting Lana and Nattie interfer next week and we maybe get a triple threat at CoC.

Drew is so cool. He's a babyface who retaliates when you mess with him and seeing him get Orton back was awesome.

Speaking of awesome, seeing the entire Mysterio family giving Murphy a well-deserved beating was great. I especially loved Rey's wife and daughter getting into it as well.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NFL is scary because as evident last year, they lost a good chunk of viewers against NFL, but they ultimately didn't come back when Football season ended.

I assume they lose less viewers than last year because we have to be getting down to the hardcore WWE fans, but I feel like we've been saying that for 3 years so who knows.


----------



## DaSlacker

RelivingTheShadow said:


> NFL is scary because as evident last year, they lost a good chunk of viewers against NFL, but they ultimately didn't come back when Football season ended.
> 
> I assume they lose less viewers than last year because we have to be getting down to the hardcore WWE fans, but I feel like we've been saying that for 3 years so who knows.


I think the hardcore fan base is on the upper side of 0.9 to 1.3 million range.

Reasoning is:

AEW's unopposed core base (0.9 million)
NXT unopposed core audience (0.8)
The number Smackdown pulled on FS1 (0.9)
Raw's lowest ever third hour (1.4)
TNA's final ratings on Spike (1.0 million)
The lows of other long running prime time shows from the 90's - The Simpsons (1.3), Family Guy (1.3), South Park (0.8)
WWE name bumping the hardcore modern wrestling audience by several hundred thousand or thereabouts


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DaSlacker said:


> I think the hardcore fan base is on the upper side of 0.9 to 1.3 million range.
> 
> Reasoning is:
> 
> AEW's unopposed core base (0.9 million)
> NXT unopposed core audience (0.8)
> The number Smackdown pulled on FS1 (0.9)
> Raw's lowest ever third hour (1.4)
> TNA's final ratings on Spike (1.0 million)
> The lows of other long running prime time shows from the 90's - The Simpsons (1.3), Family Guy (1.3), South Park (0.8)
> WWE name bumping the hardcore modern wrestling audience by several hundred thousand or thereabouts


That's a solid assessment, I would say it's at the higher end of that probably 1.1-1.2, but who knows, the show got so bad that they did 1.4 million for an hour earlier this year, and who knows how many more thunderdomes, retributions and undergrounds they have left.


----------



## Dark Emperor

No ratings this week?


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

Dark Emperor said:


> No ratings this week?


Delayed because of Labor Day. They're due today.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.762M [13th] | 0.480D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.800M [12th] | 0.500D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.613M [17th] | 0.450D [8th]

3V | 3D: 1.725M | 0.477D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.038M | + 2.16% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 4.17% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.187M | - 10.39% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 10.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.149M | - 8.46% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 6.25% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.171M | - 9.02% ]
[ - 0.106D | - 18.18% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.405M | - 19.01% ]
[ - 0.216D | - 31.17% ]*


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Everyone knew Thunderdome wasn't going to be a sustainable increase.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number, but not too bad considering they didn't have Seth on the show. 

Next week the number will be similar. They have Seth back but football is also back.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks about right.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Kentucky34 said:


> Bad number, but not too bad considering they didn't have Seth on the show.
> 
> Next week the number will be similar. They have Seth back but football is also back.


You can't actually believe Seth is the difference maker, this has to be a gimmick poster.


----------



## Kentucky34

RelivingTheShadow said:


> You can't actually believe Seth is the difference maker, this has to be a gimmick poster.


He would have added 150-200k to that number, I think.

His segments have been drawing the biggest numbers for months now.


----------



## postmoderno

RelivingTheShadow said:


> You can't actually believe Seth is the difference maker, this has to be a gimmick poster.


Best not to engage. I'm pretty sure he is somewhere on the autism spectrum.


----------



## DaSlacker

1.6 is the new normal once NFL kicks in, with the big 3 PPVs bumping the number beyond the 2 million figure.

I didn't watch any this week. Is it true they're doing a variation on Wild Card Rule again?


----------



## InexorableJourney

At least their not out of the top 10 demo..yet


----------



## RT1981

NFL is Back.

get Ready WWE.Its going to be a long fall for you.


----------



## Frost99

SPOILER 4 NXT WEEK.......


----------



## MoxAsylum

LOL. They are gonna get massacred from here on out. RAW is awful and full of geeks


----------



## Kentucky34

MoxAsylum said:


> LOL. They are gonna get massacred from here on out. RAW is awful and full of geeks


Better than AEW and Smackdown.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Everyone knew Thunderdome wasn't going to be a sustainable increase.


SD is.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> SD is.


I give credit to Roman and the heel turn on that one, I'd say the jury's still out on that one.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Kentucky34 said:


> Better than AEW and Smackdown.


Nah, you’re on drugs. SD blows RAW out of the water


----------



## Kentucky34

MoxAsylum said:


> Nah, you’re on drugs. SD blows RAW out of the water


Not really.

Riddle is good but Reigns and Wyatt suck. 

RAW has Rollins, the best in the industry. They also have Orton and Rey.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Kentucky34 said:


> Not really.
> 
> Riddle is good but Reigns and Wyatt suck.
> 
> RAW has Rollins, the best in the industry. They also have Orton and Rey.


You’re a troll. Rollins is a geek and so is Riddle. Reigns is a star


----------



## Purple Haze

I guess Raw Underground and the masked midgets flopped, they will probably scrap those ideas.


----------



## Seafort

Frost99 said:


> SPOILER 4 NXT WEEK.......


Football will take 120K away from the overall audience, nothing more.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Football usually takes about 15% of Raw’s audience, so if you figure their normal audience of 1.85 mils will be 1.6 mils against MNF. 

And the thunder dome bump lasted what 2 weeks? Raw underground nobody cares. Vince is out of ideas and Raw is on its way to eventual cancellation. In 2 years when their deal is up for negotiating, and the trends continue, they’ll be around 1.3 mil viewers per week and terrible demos since most of that group is old. Don’t see any network paying big bucks for that amount of viewers. Most likely Raw takes a giant pay cut if they wish to stay on TV similar to the Dynamite deal.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seafort said:


> Football will take 120K away from the overall audience, nothing more.


Exactly.

Seth will probably bring back 150k viewers that didn't tune in this week. 

That is why I think next week's number will be around 1.7 million.


----------



## The XL 2

Seth Rollins has about as much drawing power as Brad Armstrong did.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> Seth Rollins has about as much drawing power as Brad Armstrong did.


You will see next week.


----------



## Pippen94

Less hotshoting!! more building new stars & longterm stories


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Seth will probably bring back 150k viewers that didn't tune in this week.
> 
> That is why I think next week's number will be around 1.7 million.


1.8 to 1.85M. If the NBA isn’t demolishing RAW right now, the NFL will not siphon away many viewers either.
The loss of the casual audience has left WWE with a die-hard core of viewers that will now only very gradually erode away. Most of them are not flipping to the NFL or NBA


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Seafort said:


> 1.8 to 1.85M. If the NBA isn’t demolishing RAW right now, the NFL will not siphon away many viewers either.
> The loss of the casual audience has left WWE with a die-hard core of viewers that will now only very gradually erode away. Most of them are not flipping to the NFL or NBA


NBA draws a fraction of NFL in viewership though. NFL usually makes a dent into viewership I don't remember the NBA ever really affecting it outside of rare occasions. Although I think WWE has lost so many viewers I don't think the loss will be as high as some believe so I agree with you on that.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Seafort said:


> 1.8 to 1.85M. If the NBA isn’t demolishing RAW right now, the NFL will not siphon away many viewers either.
> The loss of the casual audience has left WWE with a die-hard core of viewers that will now only very gradually erode away. Most of them are not flipping to the NFL or NBA


The NBA ratings are way down due to their athletes being woke. If the NFL does the same thing, then Raw may not see much of a drop. But if NFL sticks to sports, you'll see the usual drop of 15%


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

Randy Lahey said:


> *The NBA ratings are way down due to their athletes being woke.* If the NFL does the same thing, then Raw may not see much of a drop. But if NFL sticks to sports, you'll see the usual drop of 15%


There's no evidence to support the claim of such a link. Who's to say it isn't more to due with the empty arenas?


----------



## CovidFan

Kentucky34 said:


> Better than AEW and Smackdown.


Love your constant deflection. That has nothing to do with what you quoted which was

"LOL. They are gonna get massacred from here on out. RAW is awful and full of geeks "
and that is true but you ain't have an argument for that.


----------



## wwehbk01

I can’t see raw and smackdown getting any good anytime soon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Seth will probably bring back 150k viewers that didn't tune in this week.
> 
> That is why I think next week's number will be around 1.7 million.


keep dreaming troll.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> The NBA ratings are way down due to their athletes being woke. If the NFL does the same thing, then Raw may not see much of a drop. But if NFL sticks to sports, you'll see the usual drop of 15%


I don’t see any major sporting events that are on network TV or ESPN sticking to sports, especially NFL. The Kentucky Derby didn’t stick to sports and they lost half their audience year over year. These networks airing major sporting events don’t care about ratings for some reason. So maybe that will help Raw a little bit as clearly a big chunk of people are tuning out of major sports right now.


----------



## Rex Rasslin

Really looks like Smackdown is the A show now. WWE has to f'ing cut down RAW back to 2 hours. Nobody needs to see more than 2 hours of prowrestling or any type of real sport for that matter. That's what PPV's are/were there for! You have short, fast and action-packed weekly series to build heated feuds and at the big PPV's fans get to see the blow off.


----------



## Charzhino

Cut it down to 2 hours. RAW consistently gets the lowest ratings for the 3rd hour, which is meant to be the money angle main events. Scrap the 1 hour filler inbetween and go back to 2 hour show. If that means loss of revenue, then so be it. I would release 70% of the womens roster and another 30% of the mens roster to compensate. Enough is enough.


----------



## ClintDagger

Charzhino said:


> Cut it down to 2 hours. RAW consistently gets the lowest ratings for the 3rd hour, which is meant to be the money angle main events. Scrap the 1 hour filler inbetween and go back to 2 hour show. If that means loss of revenue, then so be it. I would release 70% of the womens roster and another 30% of the mens roster to compensate. Enough is enough.


If they were still privately owned I think that 3rd hour would have been gone long ago. Perhaps NXT as well. But they would get blistered for dumping any revenue right now so there’s no chance of it happening.


----------



## Kishido

Yeah cut it down to 2 hours.

You can make good stories how much you want but not for 3 hours on a Monday night. 

But WWE can't make good stories for 3 hours at all and they lack the characters for it. So why even trying to fill in 3 hours 

Cut also down Underground. It was fun but it goes nowhere and starts to get annoying with the stupid MMA wannabe fighting which looks laughable 

Not even talking about Retribution. I hope it will be scrapped as the Hacker storyline or Brock will squash them and they will end worse as Nexus


----------



## Codyreigns

Kentucky34 said:


> Not really.
> 
> Riddle is good but Reigns and Wyatt suck.
> 
> RAW has Rollins, the best in the industry. They also have Orton and Rey.


SD has been much better than RAW recently. RAW lacks any direction - a lot of meaningless matches thrown together on repeat and this really awful underground crap. I'll give it to you - Rollins is one of the decent things on RAW at the minute, alongside Rey, Garza, Drew and Orton, but Reigns certainly doesn't suck and Wyatt needs more direction, as well as Rollins won't bring in that amount of viewers, Drew or Orton are more likely to do that and they won't either.....


----------



## Randy Lahey

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> There's no evidence to support the claim of such a link.


----------



## DaSlacker

ClintDagger said:


> If they were still privately owned I think that 3rd hour would have been gone long ago. Perhaps NXT as well. But they would get blistered for dumping any revenue right now so there’s no chance of it happening.


Yep. They are tied to it until 2025 anyway. Only solution is to get creative with it. For example,combine the main rosters and turn WWE Raw into a 3 hour block of different shows called WWE Monday Night Live.

8.00-9.00 WWE Raw
9.00-10.00 WWE Women (female only show)
10.00-10.30 Miz TV/Kevin Owens Show etc (rotating, studio talk show featuring wrestlers and celebs)
10.30-11.00 Shane McMahon's WWE Underground

Could be a dud and USA would probably veto yet having structure like that would be much easier to book.


----------



## SPCDRI

OpenYourFuckingEyes said:


> There's no evidence to support the claim of such a link. Who's to say it isn't more to due with the empty arenas?


Multiple polls have shown that people don't like politics in sports and they are watching less NBA because they thinki it is too political. Gallup released a positive/negative opinion on sports and sports are now seen negatively due to years of being too political. Ratings are in the toilet and "the leagues are too political" is sited as the major reason at least twice as often as "i dislike watching sports without crowds." For the NBA, "league is too political" is sited as more of a reason for people watching the NBA less than the NBA not having live fans, the NBA having a low quality of play and officiating and the NBA's involvement with China close to put together. 

The NFL was just as political, maybe even more so, than the NBA. If they just stuck to sports, they had a chance. But a year of a season like this, and NFL's ratings are going down at least 20 percent and people's opinion of the NFL in polls will be in the toilet, and the reason given mostly for this is, too much politics in the NFL.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The XL 2 said:


> Seth Rollins has about as much drawing power as Brad Armstrong did.


He wasn't even on the show this week.


----------



## OpenYourFuckingEyes

SPCDRI said:


> Multiple polls have shown that people don't like politics in sports and they are watching less NBA because they thinki it is too political. Gallup released a positive/negative opinion on sports and sports are now seen negatively due to years of being too political. Ratings are in the toilet and "the leagues are too political" is sited as the major reason at least twice as often as "i dislike watching sports without crowds." *For the NBA, "league is too political" is sited as more of a reason for people watching the NBA less than the NBA not having live fans, the NBA having a low quality of play and officiating and the NBA's involvement with China close to put together.*
> 
> The NFL was just as political, maybe even more so, than the NBA. If they just stuck to sports, they had a chance. But a year of a season like this, and NFL's ratings are going down at least 20 percent and people's opinion of the NFL in polls will be in the toilet, and the reason given mostly for this is, too much politics in the NFL.


RE: the sentence in bold



> “The league has become too political” was the clear choice for the decline, with 38% of respondents. “Boring without fans” captured 28% of the vote while the NBA’s association with China caused 19% of sports fans to turn the dial, another nod to a league Trump labeled a “political organization” last week after players boycotted games in response to a police officer shooting Jacob Blake seven times in the back in Kenosha, Wisconsin.











NBA Playoff Ratings Slip As Fans Grumble That League Has Become ‘Too Political’


The Harris Poll found the NBA is more partisan than any other sport. Only 34% of Republicans say they “actively follow” the NBA, compared with 48% of Democrats.




www.forbes.com





28% + 19% = 47%. So the difference between those who claim "the league has become too political" as the reason for watching fewer games versus those who cite "boring without fans" and the China association is 9% (and that's not including the 3rd factor - "low quality of play" that you mentioned) . If you regard 9% as a "close" difference, then surely you have to accept that the 10% difference between "the league has become too political and "boring without fans" is also close?

From that same Forbes article



> While 39% of sports fans say they are watching fewer games, 32% answered they are consuming more basketball this summer (28% say the same amount). Harris did not ask those fans why they were watching more.


So an even "closer" gap between those who are watching fewer games and those who are actually watching more.



> NBA ratings are in fact down overall through the first round of the playoffs compared with last year, but it’s hardly an apples-to-apples comparison. Summer TV viewership typically lags springtime watching, when the playoffs are normally aired. This year, the overall numbers are skewed by the need to air games during the day to accommodate a playoff calendar that has been condensed because of the pandemic. *Ratings are up over last year’s playoffs for the games that have aired in prime time.*











NBA ratings up in primetime, but still down 30 percent overall


Playoffs giving league boost in viewership, unless they are on broadcast during daytime hours.




www.si.com







> The NBA scored its largest audience in months — and cable’s best first round playoff audience in two years — with Wednesday’s Game 7 nailbiter between the Rockets and Thunder.











Seven up: Thunder-Rockets ESPN’s top first round game in three years


The NBA scored its largest audience in months -- and cable's best first round playoff audience in two years --




www.sportsmediawatch.com


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

For all the people who bitch about ratings, last night's NFL season opener is down 12.3% from last year's season opener. It's also down in the 18-49 demo from last year's 12.8 to last night's 5.2. It's their lowest season opener rating in 10 years. So, even the NFL is drastically down, as are NBA Playoffs.









NFL ratings plummet in Chiefs-Texans season opener


The NFL is back. Spread the word. Thursday night’s season-opening matchup between the Chiefs and Texans attracted 19.3 million viewers between 8 and 11 p.m. That marks a 12.3% drop from last …




nypost.com


----------



## The XL 2

Showstopper said:


> For all the people who bitch about ratings, last night's NFL season opener is down 12.3% from last year's season opener. It's also down in the 18-49 demo from last year's 12.8 to last night's 5.2. It's their lowest season opener rating in 10 years. So, even the NFL is drastically down, as are NBA Playoffs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NFL ratings plummet in Chiefs-Texans season opener
> 
> 
> The NFL is back. Spread the word. Thursday night’s season-opening matchup between the Chiefs and Texans attracted 19.3 million viewers between 8 and 11 p.m. That marks a 12.3% drop from last …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com


That's because of all of the political bullshit they're doing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The XL 2 said:


> That's because of all of the political bullshit they're doing.


They were down last year from the previous year, too.


----------



## The XL 2

Showstopper said:


> They were down last year from the previous year, too.


Yeah, but this is a huge drop and an enormous drop in the demo.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The XL 2 said:


> Yeah, but this is a huge drop and an enormous drop in the demo.


It sure is. NBA Playoffs have had a dropoff, too. If the NFL is getting hit hard, then nothing is bulletproof.


----------



## RT1981

Showstopper said:


> It sure is. NBA Playoffs have had a dropoff, too. If the NFL is getting hit hard, then nothing is bulletproof.


NFL getting hit hard yes but they are such a monster that they can afford a hit and still kill everyone else with ease.


----------



## ClintDagger

The XL 2 said:


> That's because of all of the political bullshit they're doing.


The political stuff has been hurting them for awhile but I think this year it is hitting a boiling point. It’s not even a Democrat or Republican thing as I think most people hate politics in general and want nothing to do with it. NFL and NBA should be blowing their recent years out of the water given that people have fewer entertainment options. WWE has no marketable talent which is why their numbers are tanking. The NFL and NBA don’t have that issue. It really is apples and oranges even though the trend is the same.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.812M [16th] | 0.520D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.734M [18th] | 0.520D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.521M [20th] | 0.450D [8th]

3V | 3D: 1.689M | 0.497D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.078M | - 4.30% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.213M | - 12.28% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 13.46% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.291M | - 16.06% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 13.46% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.036M | - 2.09% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 4.19% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.583M | - 25.66% ]
[ - 0.220D | - 30.68% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number.

Seth helped retain the viewers.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Keith Lee Vs. Drew Mcintyre First Time Ever and fell off hard in the third hour, damage has been done to Lee or people knew it was going to be a fuck finish, or both.


----------



## Rankles75

Not a big surprise with an NFL double header.


----------



## ClintDagger

This exemplifies what I’ve been saying for awhile. Whatever leftover fans WWE has left doesn’t watch pro sports. They’ve lost the frat boy and athlete types and I think all that is left is kids, parents, and Comic-con types.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks about back where it was pre retribution, raw underground etc. Wonder how long it holds there before sinking further.


----------



## Kentucky34

ClintDagger said:


> This exemplifies what I’ve been saying for awhile. Whatever leftover fans WWE has left doesn’t watch pro sports. They’ve lost the frat boy and athlete types and I think all that is left is kids, parents, and Comic-con types.


Last weeks number was down because Seth wasn't on.

That is why this weeks numbers isn't that bad compared to last week's number. The fans who didn't watch last week because Seth wasn't on tuned in this week. Some others tuned out because of the football.


----------



## Prosper

1.6 overall and 1.5 in Q3 wow. SMH.


----------



## Frost99




----------



## RT1981

Vince has to be happy with that.I was expecting them to get killed and fall down to 1.2 million but they held up great aginst MNF.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> This exemplifies what I’ve been saying for awhile. Whatever leftover fans WWE has left doesn’t watch pro sports. They’ve lost the frat boy and athlete types and I think all that is left is kids, parents, and Comic-con types.


This. With emphasis.


----------



## Ace

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Keith Lee Vs. Drew Mcintyre First Time Ever and fell off hard in the third hour, damage has been done to Lee or people knew it was going to be a fuck finish, or both.


Or people don't see him as a top guy? Not like they haven't tried like hell to make him a top star. He beat Orton clean.


----------



## DaSlacker

ClintDagger said:


> This exemplifies what I’ve been saying for awhile. Whatever leftover fans WWE has left doesn’t watch pro sports. They’ve lost the frat boy and athlete types and I think all that is left is kids, parents, and Comic-con types.


I don't think it's even the kids anymore tbh. The show is too long for them - the kids who follow WWE will do so via their iPads/short online video clips. I know that's how my nephew and his friends followed it a few years ago.

It's Comic Con types, parents who have remained fans since childhood, and parents who are Comic Con types! I agree, these are less likely to watch pro sports.

WWE and pro wrestling is very much on the lower end of a entertainment subculture thing thesedays, similar to: Warsies, Trekkies, horror franchise lovers, Anime fans, hardcore gamers etc.


----------



## Dark Emperor

prosperwithdeen said:


> 1.6 overall and 1.5 in Q3 wow. SMH.


Haha convenient you round down rather than up to make a point lol. 1.68 is a 1.7 if you are rounding.

With NFL first week, the rating didn't change much from last week so its not bad at all.

AEW, NXT & Smackdown would lose their average rating significantly if they were opposing the biggest show on TV, NFL too.


----------



## Randy Lahey

NFL ratings are way down. The Sunday Night game which had Cowboys-Rams (2 major markets) was down 28% in demo. I don't know what it says that the NFL is losing viewers by about the same rate WWE is.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> Or people don't see him as a top guy? Not like they haven't tried like hell to make him a top star. He beat Orton clean.


They changed his theme to dork music, made him look like a dork, DQ finish in first match, beat Orton fair, went 50/50 with DOLPH ZIGGLER, DQ finish with Orton again, DQ with Drew.

That's not how you make a top star, they killed him. Saying he beat Orton is like saying Riddle beat AJ, it doesn't matter, they were killed.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Steelers at Giants: This game drew 10.8 million viewers on ESPN, down 21% from the early game opener during Week 1 of the 2019 NFL season
Titans at Broncos: Drew 7.7 million viewers, down a whopping 38% from the late game last year.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> NFL ratings are way down. The Sunday Night game which had Cowboys-Rams (2 major markets) was down 28% in demo. I don't know what it says that the NFL is losing viewers by about the same rate WWE is.


I don’t know that it says much if we’re looking for a correlation other than they’re both trending down. The similarities end there (well, you could argue both products are overexposed). But the NFL could fix their ratings overnight if they wanted to. WWE can’t say that.


----------



## postmoderno

Despite of some games showing a drop in ratings, there is this:









Saints' win over Bucs was highest-rated FOX NFL opener in 4 years


So much for all that chatter about a boycott. FOX Sports reported an overnight rating of 16.2 from its Week 1 game between the New Orleans Saints and Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a four-year high for the …




saintswire.usatoday.com





The Thursday night game and the Monday night games mentioned were not anticipated to be as good of matchups. Perhaps people are just more selectively watching. It'll be interesting to see how ratings play out for different games throughout the season.


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> Despite of some games showing a drop in ratings, there is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saints' win over Bucs was highest-rated FOX NFL opener in 4 years
> 
> 
> So much for all that chatter about a boycott. FOX Sports reported an overnight rating of 16.2 from its Week 1 game between the New Orleans Saints and Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a four-year high for the …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saintswire.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Thursday night game and the Monday night games mentioned were not anticipated to be as good of matchups. Perhaps people are just more selectively watching. It'll be interesting to see how ratings play out for different games throughout the season.


The Sunday night game should have blown everything away. It was a great matchup with two huge markets. But it was down big. Probably a lot of the boycotters wanted to see Brady as a Buc because they like Brady and of course the curiosity factor. I don’t think there’s any way to spin the horrendous ratings for the NFL. Some people will probably come back as the political stuff will get slowly phased out as the weeks wear on. But some will never come back if it doesn’t happen fast enough.


----------



## MoxAsylum

ClintDagger said:


> The Sunday night game should have blown everything away. It was a great matchup with two huge markets. But it was down big. Probably a lot of the boycotters wanted to see Brady as a Buc because they like Brady and of course the curiosity factor. I don’t think there’s any way to spin the horrendous ratings for the NFL. Some people will probably come back as the political stuff will get slowly phased out as the weeks wear on. But some will never come back if it doesn’t happen fast enough.


Exactly, NBA is way down too. People are tired of overpaid crybabies shoving politics in their face


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Keith Lee as a promo is really bad. He sounds like a Professor reading his lines. Number is not as bad as I thought but still not good.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Keith Lee as a promo is really bad. He sounds like a Professor reading his lines. Number is not as bad as I thought but still not good.


Think of Keith Lee as MJF but a good guy.

'Bask in my glory'= 'I'm better than you and you know it'


----------



## RainmakerV2

Keith Lee sucks ass.


----------



## DaSlacker

They don't know how to introduce wrestlers anymore. Either all rushed and needy or 50/50 booking.

To casuals and non NXT viewers Lee is a big guy with boring name and bizarre costume who suddenly appears on Raw one night to confront Orton with a dull heel like promo, despite being a face. Within a a few weeks he's wrestled Orton twice, Rollins, Ziggler in a long match and face vs face match with the world champ. A few months worth of material fast tracked.

No time to digest + rapid overexposure = diehard fans saying's crap and casuals thinking 'meh'. So then they have to rush a turn or put a midcard title on him. But midcard titles on babyfaces needs build to have any real effect.


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> The Sunday night game should have blown everything away. It was a great matchup with two huge markets. But it was down big. Probably a lot of the boycotters wanted to see Brady as a Buc because they like Brady and of course the curiosity factor. I don’t think there’s any way to spin the horrendous ratings for the NFL. Some people will probably come back as the political stuff will get slowly phased out as the weeks wear on. But some will never come back if it doesn’t happen fast enough.


Great matchup? The Rams were mediocre at best last year, have little to no hype around them this year, and no one in LA cares about the NFL. I don't think anyone but Cowboys fans or fairly hardcore NFL fans were excited to watch that game.

Pointing out data that directly contradicts your observation, in an already far too small sample, isn't "spin."


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> Great matchup? The Rams were mediocre at best last year, have little to no hype around them this year, and no one in LA cares about the NFL. I don't think anyone but Cowboys fans or fairly hardcore NFL fans were excited to watch that game.
> 
> Pointing out data that directly contradicts your observation, in an already far too small sample, isn't "spin."


You picked 1 example out of 6 time slots and tried to make it a positive. It’s like a team starting out 1-5 and then trying to talk about how great things are because of that one win. That’s spin.


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> You picked 1 example out of 6 time slots and tried to make it a positive. It’s like a team starting out 1-5 and then trying to talk about how great things are because of that one win. That’s spin.


An NFL team starting out 1-5 represents 6 weeks of data, over 1/3 of the entire regular season. We are talking about a set of data points all clustered in Week 1, one of which strongly contradict the observation.

My only point is that this is not enough data to make any conclusions about the NFL's viewership this year. If a few weeks in, ratings are consistently down compared to a year ago, then that's a different story. Again, we shall see.

As a point of interest, here is a graph showing average viewership of the NFL year to year in the past decade. As you can see, it steadily declined between 2015 and 2017 before rebounding in recent years.










NFL average TV viewership per game 2021 | Statista


The NFL is one of the most widely televised sporting leagues in the world.




www.statista.com


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> An NFL team starting out 1-5 represents 6 weeks of data, over 1/3 of the entire regular season. We are talking about a set of data points all clustered in Week 1, one of which strongly contradict the observation.
> 
> My only point is that this is not enough data to make any conclusions about the NFL's viewership this year. If a few weeks in, ratings are consistently down compared to a year ago, then that's a different story. Again, we shall see.
> 
> As a point of interest, here is a graph showing average viewership of the NFL year to year in the past decade. As you can see, it steadily declined between 2015 and 2017 before rebounding in recent years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NFL average TV viewership per game 2021 | Statista
> 
> 
> The NFL is one of the most widely televised sporting leagues in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statista.com


Nobody is making conclusions about an entire year. We are making conclusions about one week and what that could mean for the future. Which is very easy to do since we can compare the week 1’s of previous years. I don’t see how week 1 can bode well for the future but that doesn’t mean that the NFL might now tweak some things going forward that could help. In fact that’s the point I’ve been making all along. WWE can’t change things, but the NFL can if they want to. You mention previous yearly trends which illustrates my point perfectly. When the NFL mires itself in political controversy their ratings go down. As they distance themselves from it, they rebound.


----------



## postmoderno

ClintDagger said:


> Nobody is making conclusions about an entire year. We are making conclusions about one week and what that could mean for the future. Which is very easy to do since we can compare the week 1’s of previous years. I don’t see how week 1 can bode well for the future but that doesn’t mean that the NFL might now tweak some things going forward that could help. In fact that’s the point I’ve been making all along. WWE can’t change things, but the NFL can if they want to. You mention previous yearly trends which illustrates my point perfectly. When the NFL mires itself in political controversy their ratings go down. As they distance themselves from it, they rebound.


Very well. The discussion seemed to be building toward some sort of false narrative that ratings are down in the NFL, therefore it's no big deal that they're also down with RAW. In reality, viewership for the NFL the past several years has been generally climbing since hitting a low number in 2017 (to your point, a year when demonstrations/kneeling were high), and there can be no conclusions drawn about this year yet.

I'm sure that the political aspect of things could be part of the NFL's initial ratings this year. You may be right in saying that if they didn't include that, they would rebound. By contrast, the WWE's problem is that RAW is a trash product, has been for years, and honestly deserves a worse rating than it gets most weeks.


----------



## MoxAsylum

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Keith Lee is really bad.


Fixed it for you


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.746M [19th] | 0.510D [5th]
V2 | D2: 1.692M [21st] | 0.500D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.565M [23rd] | 0.480D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.668M | 0.497D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.054M | - 3.09% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.96% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.127M | - 7.51% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 4.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.181M | - 10.37% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.88% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.021M | - 1.24% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.542M | - 24.52% ]
[ - 0.210D | - 29.70% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Another strong number. 

Competition was strong with the NFL.


----------



## ClintDagger

The march to sub 1MM continues.


----------



## Kentucky34

ClintDagger said:


> The march to sub 1MM continues.


Nowhere close. 

It's amazing they are still doing over 1.5 million. Other sports are losing viewers hand over fist.


----------



## Cosmo77

1.5 is not a good number,also i am convinced this kentucky guy is a troll


----------



## Dark Emperor

Kentucky34 said:


> Nowhere close.
> 
> It's amazing they are still doing over 1.5 million. Other sports are losing viewers hand over fist.


Exactly, it is what it is. Not great numbers but its not as bad as people here make out. This is 3hrs rating, against the NFL and other major shows on Monday. Despite all that, the ratings haven't gotten as bad as it was a couple of months ago.

Plus there is actually a lot going on in the shows and most of it is enjoyable right now.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Cosmo77 said:


> 1.5 is not a good number,also i am convinced this kentucky guy is a troll


Its 1.67 (1.70). Do not exaggerate. The rating has been much lower than this even before NFL & NBA playoffs started.


----------



## Pippen94

MoxAsylum said:


> Exactly, NBA is way down too. People are tired of overpaid crybabies shoving politics in their face


All TV down - ppl use other means to watch


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> Its 1.67 (1.70). Do not exaggerate. The rating has been much lower than this even before NFL & NBA playoffs started.


Not that much lower at all


----------



## DaSlacker

The most alarming thing about these ratings is how far they have to go just to pull 1.6 million. Last night they blew their load on another face vs face match, Retribution reveal and Hurt Biz vs Retribution. Though they lack star power and the product is cold, stuff like that is PPV worthy. There is little to none long term thinking.


----------



## The XL 2

As Retribution and Raw underground fall apart, the ratings are gonna to tank. Hurt Business is saving this shit show


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> As Retribution and Raw underground fall apart, the ratings are gonna to tank. Hurt Business is saving this shit show


It's actually the Seth/Rey feud that is saving the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Their feud is good, but that doesn't change how the Raw rating for this week is still mediocre.

A 1.6 overall rating for Raw is NOT a good number for Raw at all.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Their feud is good, but that doesn't change how the Raw rating for this week is still mediocre.
> 
> A 1.6 overall rating for Raw is NOT a good number for Raw at all.


I disagree, at a time where TV numbers are dropping it's a good number. 

It's not possible to draw 3-4 million viewers anymore for a wrestling show.


----------



## Not Lying

It was a trash RAW and it deserves this number.


----------



## llj

Can't wait until sub 1 million is being normalized in here.

Eventually TV execs have to see through the con job that is the WWE


----------



## Kentucky34

llj said:


> Can't wait until sub 1 million is being normalized in here.
> 
> Eventually TV execs have to see through the con job that is the WWE


That would be terrible for the wrestling industry.


----------



## llj

Kentucky34 said:


> That would be terrible for the wrestling industry.


But fun for everyone left on this forum


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> Another strong number.
> 
> Competition was strong with the NFL.


----------



## Rankles75

NFL ratings are tough to get a handle on so far this season. For instance, last night’s game drew the highest rating for a Monday night game in a decade, though the fact it was the Raiders’ first game in Las Vegas would have probably helped.

The Thursday nighter also had a significantly higher rating than last year’s corresponding game.


----------



## MoxAsylum

I’ve pretty much given up on RAW. It’s too long and full of geeks


----------



## JTB33b

Remember when we considered ratings in the low 3's as brutal? Now look at them. Low 3's would be considered attitude era numbers right about now.


----------



## Ace

And here I was thinking T-bag would turn ratings around.


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> I’ve pretty much given up on RAW. It’s too long and *full of geeks*


To be fair, we (including you) were not on Raw


----------



## InexorableJourney

I looked at RAW's viewers when I joined almost 4 years ago.

2016 Sept 12 - 2.68M
2020 Sept 22 - 1.67M

If RAW continues at that rate, they have nearly 7 years left before they have zero viewers.


----------



## Kentucky34

InexorableJourney said:


> I looked at RAW's viewers when I joined almost 4 years ago.
> 
> 2016 Sept 12 - 2.68M
> 2020 Sept 22 - 1.67M
> 
> If RAW continues at that rate, they have nearly 7 years left before they have zero viewers.


Other sports have seen bigger losses in viewership. 

WWE make mistakes. They booked Rollins's title reign terribly last year and for some reason pushed Mcintyre to the moon this year, but they are still the biggest game in town and pulling great numbers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rankles75 said:


> For instance, last night’s game drew the highest rating for a Monday night game in a decade,


Huh? Last nights MNF game did fewer viewers than Week 1’s game, and Week 1 was down 17% from last year.


----------



## ClintDagger

InexorableJourney said:


> I looked at RAW's viewers when I joined almost 4 years ago.
> 
> 2016 Sept 12 - 2.68M
> 2020 Sept 22 - 1.67M
> 
> If RAW continues at that rate, they have nearly 7 years left before they have zero viewers.


So they’ve lost a million in 4 years, and half of that in one year. The drop is accelerating when it should be doing the opposite as we near zero.


----------



## InexorableJourney

ClintDagger said:


> So they’ve lost a million in 4 years, and half of that in one year. The drop is accelerating when it should be doing the opposite as we near zero.


It's odd because the viewing figures should be bottoming out. The fact that they don't means WWE is doing and has been doing something desperately wrong for generations, and they *choose *not to fix it.


----------



## Rankles75

Randy Lahey said:


> Huh? Last nights MNF game did fewer viewers than Week 1’s game, and Week 1 was down 17% from last year.











TV Ratings Are In For Monday's Raiders-Saints Game


On Monday night, the Las Vegas Raiders hosted the New Orleans Saints in the team's first ever game in Las Vegas. It turned out to be a pretty good night for




thespun.com


----------



## YamchaRocks

McIntyre and Orton are killing the viewers off. But I though big guys draw and "indy geeks" don't, right? 🙄


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rankles75 said:


> TV Ratings Are In For Monday's Raiders-Saints Game
> 
> 
> On Monday night, the Las Vegas Raiders hosted the New Orleans Saints in the team's first ever game in Las Vegas. It turned out to be a pretty good night for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thespun.com


They were adding up numbers from 5 different networks to claim those numbers. Knew it was fishy.


----------



## kingfrass44

YamchaRocks said:


> McIntyre and Orton are killing the viewers off. But I though big guys draw and "indy geeks" don't, right? 🙄


You Smark, do not know anything
Adam Cole Fanboy
You mean Adam Cole to fail to beat AEW


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.956M [21st] | 0.580D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.824M [25th] | 0.540D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.687M [26th] | 0.520D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.822M | 0.547D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.132M | - 6.75% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 6.90% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.137M | - 7.51% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.70% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.269M | - 13.75% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 10.34% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.154M | + 9.23% ]
[ + 0.050D | + 10.06% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.748M | - 29.11% ]
[ - 0.346D | - 38.75% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

A very strong number given the competition they had.


----------



## postmoderno

Really not bad at all. I guess there are a significant enough amount of people who are willing to watch the same 6-7 matches til the end of time.


----------



## Dr. Jones

I mean, at this point it's safe to assume that anywhere from 1.5 million to 2.2 million people even consider watching wrestling each week. What really causes people to tune in one week and then not the next is up for debate and I don't know if there's any type of a right answer.

But the bottom line and the most glaring part of all, is they are not gaining new fans


----------



## DaSlacker

Opening the show with HBK, Flair etc very likely boosted hour 1 by 100,000 viewers. King's Court/Mysterio family in hour 2 did the same. Mystery opponent for the WWE title wrapped up a stronger than usual third hour.


----------



## postmoderno

Dr. Jones said:


> I mean, at this point it's safe to assume that anywhere from 1.5 million to 2.2 million people even consider watching wrestling each week. What really causes people to tune in one week and then not the next is up for debate and I don't know if there's any type of a right answer.
> 
> But the bottom line and the most glaring part of all, is they are not gaining new fans


Does it really matter in the relatively short term that they aren't gaining fans? They are putting out a trash product and the number of people tuning in is fairly steady. Sure, at some point not gaining fans is a problem, but I don't think the bulk of their current audience is comprised of a bunch of people near death. I can imagine things going on like this for at the minimum another decade, probably 2.


----------



## ClintDagger

postmoderno said:


> Does it really matter in the relatively short term that they aren't gaining fans? They are putting out a trash product and the number of people tuning in is fairly steady. Sure, at some point not gaining fans is a problem, but I don't think the bulk of their current audience is comprised of a bunch of people near death. I can imagine things going on like this for at the minimum another decade, probably 2.


They are in no way gaining fans (and I know you aren’t actually saying they are). This 1 step forward, 2 steps back stuff is caused by the people that have one foot already out the door who will tune in maybe 1 out 2 weeks, then 1 out of 3 weeks, then 1 out of 4 weeks, etcetera until they stop tuning in at all. Getting legends involved is usually a good way to get that slight bump but it wears off immediately.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Makes no sense. No way a WWE show going up against a huge NFL game like Chiefs/Ravens should be that close to two million. Hell, they almost did SDs number a few days ago (which had zero competition) while Raw went up against one of the biggest games the NFL has to offer this year in last year's SB winners and one of the best teams in the league with last years MVP in Lamar Jackson. They should have gotten crushed last night.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Makes no sense. No way a WWE show going up against a huge NFL game like Chiefs/Ravens should be that close to two million. Hell, they almost did SDs number a few days ago (which had zero competition) while Raw went up against one of the biggest games the NFL has to offer this year in last year's SB winners and one of the best teams in the league with last years MVP in Lamar Jackson. They should have gotten crushed last night.


I’ve been saying it for a long, long time. WWE fans don’t watch sports. I mean maybe 1% does but not enough to see it in viewing patterns. WWE’s competition isn’t sports or news. What it actually is I really don’t know.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Showstopper said:


> Makes no sense. No way a WWE show going up against a huge NFL game like Chiefs/Ravens should be that close to two million. Hell, they almost did SDs number a few days ago (which had zero competition) while Raw went up against one of the biggest games the NFL has to offer this year in last year's SB winners and one of the best teams in the league with last years MVP in Lamar Jackson. They should have gotten crushed last night.


Seriously impressive number. That NFL game felt like it would be a monster and kill everything else on the night, with two of the youngest and most exciting QBs facing off. 

I was expecting the lowest viewership they had like 1.5m. But to actually get close to 2m and a gain of 10% from last week can't be sniffed at. This number are actually better than before the NFL returned...


----------



## Fearless Viper

CoC bump.


----------



## Swindle

Usually anytime RAW does these heavy soap type storylines, they do well.


----------



## Kentucky34

Team effort this week. 

HBK and Flair drew in the viewers early and Seth made them stay for the second hour. 

What about that? Pushing the right people and putting them in interesting scenarios draws viewers.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Christian was on RAW, RAW rating spikes.

sicut est


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.791M [31st] | 0.560D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.666M [34th] | 0.520D [7th]
V3 | D3: 1.601M [35th] | 0.490D [8th]

3V | 3D: 1.686M | 0.523D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.125M | - 6.98% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.14% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.065M | - 3.90% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.77% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.190M | - 10.61% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.136M | - 7.46% ]
[ - 0.024D | - 4.39% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.648M | - 27.76% ]
[ - 0.224D | - 29.99% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Steady number.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks like the people who normally drop off after hour 1 never bothered tuning in to begin with. Which may have something to do with the football game already on by the time RAW started. 

Then there are the 1.6 million or so sadists who will stick around no matter what.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> Steady number.



It's a 1.6. Are some now at the point where they try to prop up a dismal rating like this as anything even remotely close to ok? This is a disaster cluster fucking a shit fest.


----------



## Kentucky34

ShadowCounter said:


> It's a 1.6. Are some now at the point where they try to prop up a dismal rating like this as anything even remotely close to ok? This is a disaster cluster fucking a shit fest.


Not really. 

NFL and NBA ratings are way down.

RAW and Seth Rollins on the other hand are posting steady numbers the past few months.


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh, fuck off, dude.

That's a shitty number no matter how you try to spin it.

Quit pretending that you're even a "fan" of him too.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> Not really.
> 
> NFL and NBA ratings are way down.
> 
> RAW and Seth Rollins on the other hand are posting steady numbers the past few months.


Ok, it's time for a new gimmick. This one's gone stale.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, fuck off, dude.
> 
> That's a shitty number no matter how you try to spin it.
> 
> Quit pretending that you're even a "fan" of him too.


Fuck off yourself. 

Tell me how it is a bad number? 

News broadcasts are dominating the ratings and sports broadcasts are losing viewers. WWE is one of the few exceptions. They are holding steady.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> *Fuck off yourself.*
> 
> Tell me how it is a bad number?
> 
> News broadcasts are dominating the ratings and sports broadcasts are losing viewers. WWE is one of the few exceptions. They are holding steady.


Sure, I'll consider doing that when your shitty gimmick ends for good first.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, I'll consider doing that when your shitty gimmick ends for good first.


More personal insults. 

I will be ignoring your rude ass from now on.


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> More personal insults.
> 
> I will be ignoring your rude ass from now on.


good move on ignoring that clown.he thinks he always right and hates people who calls him out.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> good move on ignoring that clown.he thinks he always right and hates people who calls him out.


Aren't you the same hopeless clown who continuously blamed Bayley and Sasha Banks for Raw's low ratings back in July? :mj4

How does it feel to be laughably wrong knowing that the viewership is STILL mediocre even SEVERAL weeks after both those women stopped appearing on Raw? 

I also love how you're blindly siding with the Seth Rollins troll now because you can't stand the fact that I called you out on your toxic bullshit months ago 

Anyway, of course that I'm right in this case. It's really not that hard to see that the viewership for Raw will gradually decrease no matter who's getting pushed or who's holding the world title. It doesn't help that the previous 3-4 Raw episodes have mostly sucked (terribly even); although I do think that last night's episode was decent, especially compared to those previous shitty Raw shows.


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Aren't you the same hopeless clown who continuously blamed Bayley and Sasha Banks for Raw's low ratings back in July? :mj4
> 
> How does it feel to be laughably wrong knowing that the viewership is STILL mediocre even SEVERAL weeks after both those women stopped appearing on Raw?
> 
> I also love how you're blindly siding with the Seth Rollins troll now because you can't stand the fact that I called you out on your toxic bullshit months ago
> 
> Anyway, of course that I'm right in this case. It's really not that hard to see that the viewership for Raw will gradually decrease no matter who's getting pushed or who's holding the world title. It doesn't help that the previous 3-4 Raw episodes have mostly sucked (terribly even); although I do think that last night's episode was decent, especially compared to those previous shitty Raw shows.


lol still Butthurt hahahha keep crying your tears are delicious. 

Btw the ratings have actally been stable since they got those 2 annoying clowns off Raw.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> lol still Butthurt hahahha keep crying your tears are delicious.


You're the one who randomly attacked me to begin with when those previous responses to that troll (who just exposed himself for being spineless too for ignoring btw) had nothing to do with you.

It honestly sounds like you spent the last couple of months crying that you got rightfully called out for your nonsense. By all means continue to cry about being proven wrong about what's actually killing the ratings 



> Btw the ratings have actally been stable since they got those 2 annoying clowns off Raw.


Except the ratings are STILL pretty mediocre now.

Hell, they aren't even that close to reaching 2 million viewers; which would still be pretty unimpressive too compared to the Raw ratings 5 years ago (or even over 2 years ago).

Let's face it. You were completely wrong about Bayley and Sasha "killing" the ratings, so now you're pretending that Raw maintaining at a "stable" 1.6 million TV viewers is supposed to be anything impressive (even though that's STILL a low number overall).

Anyway, the only 2 annoying clowns here are you, and that cowardly Rollins troll; but hey, please proceed to continue pretending that you're amused though (even though it's pretty obvious that you're 'triggered' to the point where you're seething hard) 😂


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> You're the one who randomly attacked me to begin with when those previous responses to that troll (who just exposed himself for being spineless too for ignoring btw) had nothing to do with you.
> 
> It honestly sounds like you spent the last couple of months crying that you got rightfully called out for your nonsense. By all means continue to cry about being proven wrong about what's actually killing the ratings
> 
> 
> 
> Except the ratings are STILL pretty mediocre now.
> 
> Hell, they aren't even that close to reaching 2 million viewers; which would still be pretty unimpressive too compared to the Raw ratings 5 years ago (or even over 2 years ago).
> 
> Let's face it. You were completely wrong about Bayley and Sasha "killing" the ratings, so now you're pretending that Raw maintaining at a "stable" 1.6 million TV viewers is supposed to be anything impressive (even though that's STILL a low number overall).
> 
> Anyway, the only 2 annoying clowns here are you, and that cowardly Rollins troll; but hey, please proceed to continue pretending that you're amused though (even though it's pretty obvious that you're 'triggered' to the point where you're seething hard) 😂


dude its football season and also a election year where the news channels are getting all the viewers.

Ratings will go back to 2 million after the election settles down and football season is over.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Exactly what groundbreaking personalities and storylines are going to lure people back in that have tuned out?

Drew McIntyre? Seth Rollins? Roman Reigns? Edge?

People didn't find them interesting enough to stick around then. Why would they all of a sudden decide to come back when the more interesting stuff dies down?


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> good move on ignoring that clown.he thinks he always right and hates people who calls him out.


You should ignore him as well.

He doesn't have the social skills necessary to debate properly. That's why he is so angry and insults people. I feel sorry for him.


----------



## MoxAsylum

postmoderno said:


> Looks like the people who normally drop off after hour 1 never bothered tuning in to begin with. Which may have something to do with the football game already on by the time RAW started.
> 
> Then there are the 1.6 million or so sadists who will stick around no matter what.


Nobody wants to watch geeks.


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> Nobody wants to watch *geeks.*


We’re not on the show though.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> We’re not on the show though.


What gives you the right to personally insult other users constantly? 

You aren't a celebrity around here.


----------



## RT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> What gives you the right to personally insult other users constantly?
> 
> You aren't a celebrity around here.


He thinks he is.


----------



## Kentucky34

RT1981 said:


> He thinks he is.


Poor guy.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> What gives you the right to personally insult other users constantly?
> 
> You aren't a celebrity around here.


Do you (and @RT1981 ) have poor reading comprehension skills or something?

I JUST insulted myself too; hence the pronoun, "WE."

Way to completely misinterpret my previous post.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Rollins marks are fighting each other lol.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Do you (and @RT1981 ) have poor reading comprehension skills or something?
> 
> I JUST insulted myself too; hence the pronoun, "WE."
> 
> Way to completely misinterpret my previous post.


Doesn't matter.

You still insulted another member in the process. 

Grow up.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> Doesn't matter.
> 
> You still insulted another member in the process.
> 
> *Grow up.*


Dude, your entire existence here is to derail tons of threads on here (with a 2nd ACCOUNT) pretending that you're a "fan" of Seth Rollins and intentionally overrate/overhype him to absurd levels hoping to piss everybody off by causing them to shit on the guy due to your ridiculous comments; which is what you originally intended doing to begin with because he truly makes you seethe big time.

Take your *own* advice with the bolded.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, your entire existence here is to derail tons of threads on here (with a 2nd ACCOUNT) pretending that you're a "fan" of Seth Rollins and intentionally overrate/overhype him to absurd levels hoping to piss everybody off by causing them to shit on the guy due to your ridiculous comments; which is what you originally intended doing to begin with because he truly makes you seethe big time.
> 
> Take your *own* advice with the bolded.


I have tried to have a civilised debate with you in the past, but all you do is insult me. 

For the last time, how do I overrate Rollins? What do I say about him that isn't true?


----------



## rodmunch316

Dont worry guys


----------



## Kentucky34

rodmunch316 said:


> Dont worry guys


Real mature.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Kentucky34 said:


> I have tried to have a civilised debate with you in the past, but all you do is insult me.
> 
> For the last time, how do I overrate Rollins? What do I say about him that isn't true?


You overrate him when u compare him to rock or austin. Bro no offense either u are trolling or something is wrong with u mentally. I mean u can’t be that daft surely. I like rollins and I believe he is one of the top 3 talents today but comparing him to rock is like comparing an average tennis player to Serena in her prime or comparing Dembele to messi. 
You are not a rollins fan, if you were, you would be posting in his fan page section. You get insulted because some of your takes are flat out stupid. I mean in the history of professional wrestling it’s common knowledge that only Stone Cold Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan are on the same level as the rock. When you compare arguably the greatest superstar in pro wrestling history to seth rollins who happens to be a good talent, then you are on some levels of madness. As good as seth rollins is, in the last 2 years the faces of wwe have been Roman reigns and becky lynch. Seth rollins is not even the biggest star in current wwe. The biggest stars in wwe during the last 2 years are Roman, Becky and seth. If seth is not a bigger star than Becky, how the heck can u compare him to the rock. Either you were too young to have seen the impact rock had not just in the wrestling bubble but his impact on taken wwf to heights never seen since. 
I have been to a few raws and during the 90’s austin and rock were not just huge stars, they were pop culture icons. Everyone knew who they were in schools, entertainment etc. I still go to raw shows and no one in pop culture knows who seth rollins is. At every show I went to in the last 2 years the two most popular stars were Becky lynch and Roman. If you want to be taken seriously don’t come up with dumb takes such as rollins is better than a guy who happens to be bigger than the wwe.


----------



## Kentucky34

Tk Adeyemi said:


> You overrate him when u compare him to rock or austin. Bro no offense either u are trolling or something is wrong with u mentally. I mean u can’t be that daft surely. I like rollins and I believe he is one of the top 3 talents today but comparing him to rock is like comparing an average tennis player to Serena in her prime or comparing Dembele to messi.
> You are not a rollins fan, if you were, you would be posting in his fan page section. You get insulted because some of your takes are flat out stupid. I mean in the history of professional wrestling it’s common knowledge that only Stone Cold Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan are on the same level as the rock. When you compare arguably the greatest superstar in pro wrestling history to seth rollins who happens to be a good talent, then you are on some levels of madness. As good as seth rollins is, in the last 2 years the faces of wwe have been Roman reigns and becky lynch. Seth rollins is not even the biggest star in current wwe. The biggest stars in wwe during the last 2 years are Roman, Becky and seth. If seth is not a bigger star than Becky, how the heck can u compare him to the rock. Either you were too young to have seen the impact rock had not just in the wrestling bubble but his impact on taken wwf to heights never seen since.
> I have been to a few raws and during the 90’s austin and rock were not just huge stars, they were pop culture icons. Everyone knew who they were in schools, entertainment etc. I still go to raw shows and no one in pop culture knows who seth rollins is. At every show I went to in the last 2 years the two most popular stars were Becky lynch and Roman. If you want to be taken seriously don’t come up with dumb takes such as rollins is better than a guy who happens to be bigger than the wwe.


For the final time.

Rock is the bigger star in Hollywood and therefore more of a household name. Rollins has achieved more in the wrestling business.

The Rock was more popular in the wrestling business at his peak but it didn't last long and he rode Austin's coattails anyway. 

Rollins has competed in a down period so it is impossible for him to draw what Rock did at his peak but he has had more longevity and clearly surpassed Rock as an overall performer. You can argue that Rock is better on the mic but not in the ring. 

Rollins is the only current wrestler that spikes TV quarters and generates Youtube views. For him to do this in a down period is nothing short of exceptional.


----------



## Kentucky34

Back on topic.

I think the draft might save RAW's ratings this week but they are going to struggle to retain viewers from now on. 

They have no draws left on their roster now that Seth has moved to Smackdown.


----------



## DammitChrist

It's just a poor gimmick, fellas.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> It's just a poor gimmick, fellas.


Why are you so desperate to be liked?


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> Why are you so desperate to be liked?


What? 

Dude, more folks need to be aware of your trolling bullshit before they even waste their time arguing with you.


----------



## One Shed

Kentucky34 said:


> For the final time.
> 
> Rock is the bigger star in Hollywood and therefore more of a household name. Rollins has achieved more in the wrestling business.
> 
> The Rock was more popular in the wrestling business at his peak but it didn't last long and he rode Austin's coattails anyway.
> 
> Rollins has competed in a down period so it is impossible for him to draw what Rock did at his peak but he has had more longevity and clearly surpassed Rock as an overall performer. You can argue that Rock is better on the mic but not in the ring.
> 
> Rollins is the only current wrestler that spikes TV quarters and generates Youtube views. For him to do this in a down period is nothing short of exceptional.


HAHAhahahahahahaha. Thanks for that good laugh, and I do not even hate Rollins.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.006M [22nd] | 0.600D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.884M [24th] | 0.590D [6th]
V3 | D3: 1.676M [29th] | 0.520D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.855M | 0.570D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.122M | - 6.08% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.67% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.208M | - 11.04% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 11.86% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.330M | - 16.45% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 13.33% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.169M | + 10.02% ]
[ + 0.047D | + 8.99% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.424M | - 18.60% ]
[ - 0.167D | - 22.66% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Nice number. 

I expect a lower number next week. RAW lost out in the draft.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks about right. Slightly more people tuned in probably thinking cool things were going to happen with the draft, before realizing it's the same old trash.


----------



## Dr. Jones

The sooner they realize that that 3rd hour has completely destroyed their show, only then will they be able to actually be able to fix it

It would be the equivalent of making Seinfeld be an hour every single week by stretching out the stories to fit the time. What if South Park had to stretch their storylines to fit an hour every week?

-Jokes would become mundane and played out because they had to keep going back to them over and over again to fill time

-The characters would become stale and wouldn't have nearly the longevity

-The shows writers would be so burned out just trying to make it work that they would get creatively broke

That's what's happened to Raw


----------



## ClintDagger

Man, they can barely get to 2MM and it takes the draft even for that.


----------



## chronoxiong

We living in rough times if we have to applaud for RAW hitting 2 million viewers for one hour lol. Nice little bump but I think its gonna go back to the new norm of mid 1 million viewers next week.


----------



## RT1981

solid rating.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Got a better bump (vs the previous week numbers) than SD did but dropped just like SD. from hour 1 to hour 2.

I know it is tired but 3 hours is too damn long.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The NBA, NFL and MLB are all down nearly 50% Y-o-Y in viewers.


----------



## DaSlacker

NathanMayberry said:


> The NBA, NFL and MLB are all down nearly 50% Y-o-Y in viewers.


I think a big problem is that none of them 'feel right'. The pandemic has done a number on their atmosphere, their importance, people being out in bars watching. Zombie seasons is the best way to describe it. Another problem is cord cutting really start to bite now. 

Obviously this is all true for WWE too. So maybe looking back it will be considered impressive how hardcore the fan base is, that they stayed above 1.5 million viewers. Or maybe being a fictional entity it doesn't suffer quite as much from the pandemic effect as sports do. It's an interesting question.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Kentucky34 said:


> Back on topic.
> 
> I think the draft might save RAW's ratings this week but they are going to struggle to retain viewers from now on.
> 
> They have no draws left on their roster now that Seth has moved to Smackdown.


For someone that claims to be a seth fan, you sure don’t show up in the seth forum to engage other seth fans lol


----------



## wwehbk01

After I watched final night of draft on raw I thought it might improve but after saw draft picks I thought no it be same rubbish each week I think I stick with AEW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ClintDagger

NathanMayberry said:


> The NBA, NFL and MLB are all down nearly 50% Y-o-Y in viewers.


WWE hasn’t pushed an unpopular political agenda the way the leagues you mentioned have. WWE’s ratings drop is not congruent with what we are seeing from NFL, NBA, MLB, etcetera. WWE is just continuing a trend that we’ve been witnessing for more than a decade.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ClintDagger said:


> WWE hasn’t pushed an unpopular political agenda the way the leagues you mentioned have. WWE’s ratings drop is not congruent with what we are seeing from NFL, NBA, MLB, etcetera. WWE is just continuing a trend that we’ve been witnessing for more than a decade.


As are these leagues... 


The NBA finals was watched by tens of millions of people in the 90s. This year it was watched by like 6 million. Everything on TV has been on a trend of shedding viewers for over a decade.


----------



## ClintDagger

NathanMayberry said:


> As are these leagues...
> 
> 
> The NBA finals was watched by tens of millions of people in the 90s. This year it was watched by like 6 million. Everything on TV has been on a trend of shedding viewers for over a decade.


If you compare it to the 90s, sure. But if you look at the NBA’s viewership starting around 2007 they were slowly trending up, peaking right around 2017, before trending down a bit then crashing this year like nothing we’ve ever seen. The NFL was very similar. Their average viewership in 2015 was the exact same as it was in 2010. They were very consistent. Then they started to crash in 2016 with the start of the kneeling controversy. They again are crashing this year as more politics are being injected.

Bottom line, the WWE can’t claim a period of consistent ratings growth over a several year period like the NBA nor can they claim several years of steady ratings like the NFL. WWE has been a slowly dying product for awhile whereas the NBA and NFL had a really strong run up until very recent years.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Demo beat Smackdowns this week with 30 million less homes to pull from. Very impressive.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.806M [25th] | 0.500D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.835M [24th] | 0.560D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.689M [28th] | 0.490D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.777M | 0.517D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.029M | + 1.61% ]
[ + 0.060D | + 12.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.146M | - 7.96% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.50% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.117M | - 6.48% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 2.00% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.078M | - 4.20% ]
[ - 0.053D | - 9.30% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.565M | - 24.12% ]
[ - 0.230D | - 30.79% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Overall viewership down in all 3 hours from last week. 

Not good.


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

Honestly aside from AJ, Raw has nothing that interests me at the moment then football being on the same night def isn't helping. Smackdown has all the juice


----------



## RT1981

solid rating going up aginst monday night football.


----------



## Zappers

RT1981 said:


> solid rating going up aginst monday night football.


Monday night football was a blowout. Especially the beginning. But is was the Cowboys, so they usually pull people in regardless.


----------



## RT1981

Zappers said:


> Monday night football was a blowout. Especially the beginning. But is was the Cowboys, so they usually pull people in regardless.


thats why I said it was solid cause Cowboys always draw fans in don't matter if they are good or bad.


----------



## Zappers

RT1981 said:


> thats why I said it was solid cause Cowboys always draw fans in don't matter if they are good or bad.


Yes. That's why I mentioned this. Dallas Cowboys always draw. Especially since the Dak went down, people wanted to see the new guy and how he performed.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.859M [26th] | 0.540D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.752M [27th] | 0.510D [7th]
V3 | D3: 1.585M [34th] | 0.470D [8th]

3V | 3D: 1.732M | 0.507D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.107M | - 5.76% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.56% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.167M | - 9.53% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.84% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.274M | - 14.74% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.96% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.045M | - 2.53% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.93% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.401M | - 18.80% ]
[ - 0.213D | - 29.58% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

c'mon 1.4X. Getting closer and closer!


----------



## Kentucky34

No viewership increase even coming off a PPV. 

This is what happens when you load up a 3 hour show with no draws.


----------



## DaSlacker

postmoderno said:


> c'mon 1.4X. Getting closer and closer!


I think you'll get your wish Christmas week. Probably the edition on 28th December if it's taped.


----------



## InexorableJourney

The Randy Orton as Champion viewer bump at work.


----------



## RT1981

DaSlacker said:


> I think you'll get your wish Christmas week. Probably the edition on 28th December if it's taped.


WWE don't care what the ratings are for Christmas week never have so they will not be to bother by it.


----------



## Seafort

WWE needs to change, and change quickly. A new creative direction with Vince going hands off has the chance to pay dividends in 12-18 months if fans gradually return...or in a worse case scenario the erosion simply stops. Without it, all you will see is a steady regression. First to 1.2M. Then 1M. Then when Raw comes up for renewal, we will be talking about NXT type viewership.

The time for doing the same exact thing as you did ten years ago because you won a war twenty years ago that everyone has now forgotten..those days need to be over.


----------



## llj

I expect we won't see Rainmaker in this thread this week


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> WWE needs to change, and change quickly. A new creative direction with Vince going hands off has the chance to pay dividends in 12-18 months if fans gradually return...or in a worse case scenario the erosion simply stops. Without it, all you will see is a steady regression. First to 1.2M. Then 1M. Then when Raw comes up for renewal, we will be talking about NXT type viewership.
> 
> The time for doing the same exact thing as you did ten years ago because you won a war twenty years ago that everyone has now forgotten..those days need to be over.


I completely agree. A good if completely harmless example of how stuck in their ways they are is the Anoa'i family feud. Reigns and Uso have put in some incredible work and it generally makes sense. But then you have Roman hitting the cartoon like superman punch during a heated brawl (who'd do that in real life) and the Hell in a Cell being used when a simple I Quit would suffice. On the flip side you get really silly stuff like the Otis trial.

Their business model is weird. TV and streaming services is now the 'go to' for high quality, high budget, nuanced, original intelligent entertainment. Major studio film is for the most driven by CGI franchises and reboots, apart from Academy Awards season and whatever Tarantino and Nolan are doing. WWE by contrast seems to get dumber every year. Yet they rely on those TV rights and operate in an increasingly crowded market.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.767M [35th] | 0.500D [10th]
V2 | D2: 1.747M [36th] | 0.520D [7th]
V3 | D3: 1.455M [43rd] | 0.430D [15th]

3V | 3D: 1.656M | 0.483D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.020M | - 1.13% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 4.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.292M | - 16.71% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 17.31% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.312M | - 17.66% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 14.00% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.076M | - 4.39% ]
[ - 0.023D | - 4.73% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.480M | - 22.47% ]
[ - 0.274D | - 36.20% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Is that the lowest 3rd hour of all time? My Giants destroying Raw last night and all of the geeks on that show and in the final segment. What a draw that Miz is.

:mark:


----------



## postmoderno

Yayyy 1.4x! Christmas came early this year.


----------



## Kentucky34

They really miss Seth, don't they?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Lowest 3rd hour EVER by 8K viewers. 

Previous all time low was 1.463M on 7/27.

LOL.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also, it is the 4th lowest rated Raw of all time. Lowest 3rd hour of all time. Yikes.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*RAW is by far the worst wrestling program on television. 


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323733102741499904*


----------



## Ace

Put The Fiend in the main event and this is what happens.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Put The Fiend in the main event and this is what happens.


*It sucks because Alexa is carrying him and the show. The rest of it is entirely skippable.*


----------



## dcruz

It's completely directionless so I'm not surprised they're losing people. I rarely find myself rooting for anyone on Raw lately, even people I usually like, that's how dire it is.


----------



## The XL 2

It's a terrible show, so no surprise.


----------



## Prosper

Lol at Hour 3


----------



## .christopher.

Gooood, goooood /palpatine


----------



## OwenSES

Ace said:


> Put The Fiend in the main event and this is what happens.


That's a funny way to spell Drew Mcintyre


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Very bad number. Raw needs to figure something out. SD, even if down YOY, at least is very steady week to week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

llj said:


> I expect we won't see Rainmaker in this thread this week



First, learn to tag. Second, Im not in the RAW thread often because RAW sucks. 
They had a chance to flip the show with RAW Underground and Retribution, but then some people whined on the internet so they got rid of the chicks and just made it the same thing with no ropes and now its dead. Instead of loading Retribution up with stars, it has guys like Shane Thorne and Ali is the fucking leader. What the fuck? 

And Im tired of Drew just Goldberging the roster and kicking out of everyone's shit at 1. Its fine for a few months but hes been doing it since what, February? And as good as he is, Orton as champ in 2020 does nothing for me really.


So yeah, the show sucks and deserves the doo doo numbers. Smackdown doesnt suck and deserves the rise its seen. Pretty simple.


----------



## MoxAsylum

I've given up on RAW and AEW. Smackdown is the only good show. Drew is absolutely boring. The rest of the roster are geeks. Only things i care about and catch clips if is the fiend and alexa. I also like AJ and Orton but the free feud needs to end


----------



## Frost99

Just another Monday #WWELogic........


----------



## Zappers

Seafort said:


> *WWE needs to change, and change quickly.* A new creative direction with Vince going hands off has the chance to pay dividends in 12-18 months if fans gradually return...or in a worse case scenario the erosion simply stops. Without it, all you will see is a steady regression. First to 1.2M. Then 1M. Then when Raw comes up for renewal, we will be talking about NXT type viewership.
> 
> The time for doing the same exact thing as you did ten years ago because you won a war twenty years ago that everyone has now forgotten..those days need to be over.


Go to 2 hour RAW. This should be the first order of action. No excuses. Use the 3 hour for special occasions. 

Everything else they can work on. But first you start with 2 hrs, it's a must. As we can see, these slightly "shorter" PPV's are working well too. It will help RAW tremendously.


----------



## Zappers

RAW right now is thinking Fiend & current storyline is "shocking people" It's not. It's pretty good, but it's not pulling people in. It's serving it's purpose as a"sideshow". But, It's not must see TV. People/fans are just watching youtube clips to get the 2 min version. Why? Because that's what it is, Fiend is a condensed highlight reel. Funhouse, His lights out/on appearances. Alexa showings, etc... all can be shown in a 2 minute clip. There's no matches(as of yet), nothing to "grasp onto".

Now look in comparison on SD with Roman storyline. Is it the best ever?, no, but it's quite good. AND most importantly it can't be told in short 2 minute clips. You need to watch SD live/dvr to get the full picture. His promos, Uso promos, Heyman, the matches, the aftermath of said matches, etc.... You don't need that with the Fiend.

Let me give an example. (maybe it's bad but I'll try) Think back to WCW and Sting's Crow storyline. A mysterious figure haunting WCW, like a Phantom of the Opera(not really but you get the idea) He appeared, disappeared, kicked but when he had to etc... I'll bet anything Vince/Fiend is trying to sorta "recapture" this aura. Problem. He's not Sting, there's no NWO, and this ain't the 90's.


----------



## Ace

Zappers said:


> RAW right now is thinking Fiend & current storyline is "shocking people" It's not. It's pretty good, but it's not pulling people in. It's serving it's purpose as a"sideshow". But, It's not must see TV. People/fans are just watching youtube clips to get the 2 min version. Why? Because that's what it is, Fiend is a condensed highlight reel. Funhouse, His lights out/on appearances. Alexa showings, etc... all can be shown in a 2 minute clip. There's no matches(as of yet), nothing to "grasp onto".
> 
> Now look in comparison on SD with Roman storyline. Is it the best ever?, no, but it's quite good. AND most importantly it can't be told in short 2 minute clips. You need to watch SD live/dvr to get the full picture. His promos, Uso promos, Heyman, the matches, the aftermath of said matches, etc.... You don't need that with the Fiend.
> 
> Let me give an example. (maybe it's bad but I'll try) Think back to WCW and Sting's Crow storyline. A mysterious figure haunting WCW, like a Phantom of the Opera(not really but you get the idea) He appeared, disappeared, kicked but when he had to etc... I'll bet anything Vince/Fiend is trying to sorta "recapture" this aura. Problem. He's not Sting, there's no NWO, and this ain't the 90's.


 Raw is being built around The Fiend and ratings have never been worse.

Whereas SD is being built around Roman and ratings have rebounded.


----------



## Kentucky34

Ace said:


> Raw is being built around The Fiend and ratings have never been worse.
> 
> Whereas SD is being built around Roman and ratings have rebounded.


Fiend, McIntyre and Miz are to blame for Raw's recent ratings decline.

Rollins, Bryan and Bayley should be credited with Smackdown's recent ratings success.


----------



## Zappers

Ace said:


> Raw is being built around The Fiend and ratings have never been worse.
> 
> Whereas SD is being built around Roman and ratings have rebounded.


And the reason. The Fiend isn't "real". 

Yes, we ALL understand WWE/wrestling isn't "real". Built around over the top personas. But The Fiend is completely unrealistic. And imho he doesn't fit currently in this time frame era. He's was meant for the 80's or 90's. Wait? But what about Undertaker or someone like Kane? Right? First off Undertaker is a legend, spread over 20+ years of hard work and respect. He/wwe/fans built that, we accept it. He's nostalgia if you will. Second, he not around. He's a once maybe twice a year performer. I brought up Sting before, again... he was "real".

But going back to the "real" topic. Take Retribution for a tiny example. Like them or hate them, their gimmick is "real". They fit. Take R-Truth and all his silliness. He's "real". The mistake they did with Bray. Was from the very start when the Funhouse started. He should have been wrestling every week in and week out as Bray(red sweater) THEN bring out The Fiend. Instead what we got was Bray doing just Funhouse, teasing and teasing this alter ego. He wrestled like one time as Bray in about a year. Dumb move. Fiend should have been only taken out on special occasions imo. The ratio should have been reversed.

Look at the entire WWE roster. NXT, ....even AEW. Go ahead, give a count. How many guys are there that appear/reappear when the lights go on/off like a ghost, can kick out of any finisher, and have a female wrestler possessed under their control.

P.S. - Said female wrestler is not a midcarder or new talent. It's a Five Time Women's Champion and Two Time Woman's Tag Champ. Ratings are down again why? Wasting good talent, that's why.


----------



## DammitChrist

No individual talent should be blamed for the ratings decline, and I still don't think anyone on the current roster is a big TV draw.

The gradual downward-trend with the ratings will most likely continue.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> No individual talent should be blamed for the ratings decline, and I still don't think anyone on the current roster is a big TV draw.
> 
> The gradual downward-trend with the ratings will most likely continue.


Then why is Smackdown trending upwards now that Seth and Daniel are on the show. 

Stop playing both sides.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> Then why is Smackdown trending upwards now that Seth and Daniel are on the show.


Smackdown has generally been a good show over the past couple of months, so that's why they've been trending upwards lately. 

Plus, I'm guessing that it helps that the likes of Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins are two of their top stars who keep plenty of wrestling fans interested (along with some of the other top stars who are being presented well atm).



> Stop playing both sides.


i'm being fair and realistic here.


----------



## OwenSES

Anyone blaming The Fiend for the ratings clearly has an agenda. The only thing that was clear about the last 2 Raws was Drew Mcintyre is still the number 1 babyface on RAW and is chasing the title.

He is the number 1 guy, he has been number 1 guy for the entire year and the main event was literally "tune in a see Mcintyre beat those geeks Miz and Morrison and maybe WWE Champion Randy Orton will hit an RKO" The Fiend wasn't even advertised in the last hour 🤣

But if you got an agenda you got to agenda.


----------



## Ace

OwenSES said:


> Anyone blaming The Fiend for the ratings clearly has an agenda. The only thing that was clear about the last 2 Raws was Drew Mcintyre is still the number 1 babyface on RAW and is chasing the title.
> 
> He is the number 1 guy, he has been number 1 guy for the entire year and the main event was literally "tune in a see Mcintyre beat those geeks Miz and Morrison and maybe WWE Champion Randy Orton will hit an RKO" The Fiend wasn't even advertised in the last hour 🤣
> 
> But if you got an agenda you got to agenda.


 The Fiend has taken up most of the screen time and has become the focal point of Raw.

Drew lost clean to Randy, he isn't the top star or focal point of Raw anymore.

It's insane how many defenders that fat fraud has. The guy is mediocre to the nth degree and has stunk it up whenever and wherever he's gone.


----------



## OwenSES

Ace said:


> The Fiend has taken up most of the screen time and has become the focal point of Raw.
> 
> Drew lost clean to Randy, he isn't the top star or focal point of Raw anymore.
> 
> It's insane how many defenders that fat fraud has. The guy is mediocre to the nth degree and has stunk it up whenever and wherever he's gone.


Come on now!

Of course Drew is the focal point. He has had the strongest push since Batista in 05. Now The Fiend is getting involved, but the last 2 weeks the show has opened with either Orton or Mcintyre and ended with McIntyre and Orton fighting (with The Fiend in the background 2 weeks ago)


Drew lost clean (after already beating Orton twice) and has made it very clear he is not done with Orton yet. And this week on RAW, Wyatt only had his Firefly fun house where as Drew was booked for the main event in the last hour! He is the no 1 babyface still on the hunt, that makes him the top draw.

So for anyone to watch the last 2 shows and specifically that main event and think it's about The Fiend? Well I think they are watching a diffrient show to me. Surely you would expect more ratings wise, from McIntyre the top babyface and Randy Orton the top heel?


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> No individual talent should be blamed for the ratings decline, and I still don't think anyone on the current roster is a big TV draw.
> 
> The gradual downward-trend with the ratings will most likely continue.


That's a fair assessment. But what is also fair is you said _"No individual talent should be blamed for the ratings decline" _Well Fiend isn't doing it alone correct? It's him, Alexa, and Drew, and Orton. That's four main stars taking up time on the airwaves. Let's not forget his small interaction with Retribution, and staring down Hurt. So it's him as an individual effecting other people. He's got his finger in every pie. Now if he just came out by himself, and did Funhouse's every week with zero mention and zero interaction with any other wrestler. Then your idea about individual would definitely hold true.

Give an example. Steve Austin. He took over shows. He was in the beginning, the middle and the end. Some weeks he effected nobody. Some weeks he effected everyone. He was the reason the WWE did well, people watched because of him. Nobody is watching "because of Fiend". Oh, let's see what he does next. Pretty hard to accomplish that when the wrestlers he comes in contact with, pretty much pay him no mind. When you have Heyman and Roman(when Bray was on SD) basically laugh at him in that awesome post PPV promo. Then, when you have neither Roman or Heyman even glance for a split second over their shoulder when Possessed Alexa stared them down for over 30 seconds the week next. That right there is telling you everything you need to know.

It's real simple. Bray/Fiend needs to wrestle every week. And he needs to wrestle his way through several people, then start stalking the "big guys" He's not Undertaker, he never will be. There's no special pass he gets where he wrestles once every two months in a Swamp. That is unacceptable imho. People want to see him in action. Also people want to see Alexa Bliss in action instead of being held hostage and not wrestling for several weeks. Let this sink in. Super over Alexa Bliss has not been on 5 straight PPV's. Yeah, that's bad. It's a pretty simple concept, fans want to see their favorite wrestlers ... umm ... wrestle.

Do that, then we can talk about the ratings afterwords. See what happens.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.847M [29th] | 0.580D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.690M [35th] | 0.530D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.531M [38th] | 0.490D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.690M | 0.533D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.157M | - 8.50% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.62% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.159M | - 9.41% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.55% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.316M | - 17.11% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 15.52% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.034M | + 2.05% ]
[ + 0.050D | + 10.35% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.368M | - 17.88% ]
[ - 0.110D | - 17.11% ]*


----------



## One Shed

Look at that hour 3 drop off. I remember saying this at the time:



Two Sheds said:


> From the 24/7 silliness to Flipochet? I can literally hear all the channels changing.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Nobody wants to watch a bunch of geeks. I chose to watch Patriots vs Jets yesterday


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> *Nobody wants to watch a bunch of geeks. *I chose to watch Patriots vs Jets yesterday


Why would we be on the show though?

I don't see any real "geek" on Raw atm.


----------



## justin waynes

good numbers better than last week awful numbers ,drew is a draw


----------



## Zappers

This is all entertainment, we get that.

I will say the section of the show with AJ and the guys was a little much Sure I laughed a little, but at the same time I saying to myself, what the hell did they do to my guys? Why are they all doing comedy. R-Truth I get but these guys. Come on now. It's flirting being too silly imo. Just let one of them do it, but not all 5.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Zappers said:


> This is all entertainment, we get that.
> 
> I will say the section of the show with AJ and the guys was a little much Sure I laughed a little, but at the same time I saying to myself, what the hell did they do to my guys? *Why are they all doing comedy.* R-Truth I get but these guys. Come on now. It's flirting being too silly imo. Just let one of them do it, but not all 5.


Somewhere along the last 20 years it became a prerequisite for a wrestlers to be comedians. I don't know when or why it started, but it's awful. It became very apparent when Cena dropped his rapper gimmick and started cracking childish jokes through his promos. AEW for whatever reason thinks that they are really hilarious and need their comedy to be on display all the time.

A very famous quote in wrestling exists for a reason "funny doesn't draw money"


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Miz really drawing those main event numbers the past two weeks.


----------



## OwenSES

Dr. Jones said:


> Somewhere along the last 20 years it became a prerequisite for a wrestlers to be comedians. I don't know when or why it started, but it's awful. It became very apparent when Cena dropped his rapper gimmick and started cracking childish jokes through his promos. AEW for whatever reason thinks that they are really hilarious and need their comedy to be on display all the time.
> 
> A very famous quote in wrestling exists for a reason "funny doesn't draw money"


It started from The Rock. The Rock was pretty much a stand up comedian during his run. He was funny and did draw money.


----------



## Dr. Jones

OwenSES said:


> It started from The Rock. The Rock was pretty much a stand up comedian during his run. He was funny and did draw money.


Which in turn, actually goes back to Brian Gewirtz. Gewirtz wrote a bulk of The Rock's material and still works for him to this day. He gained the reputation while writing for the WWF that he tried to make everyone sound and act like the Rock.

Rock is the exception, not the rule. Rock can actually pull it off, because he has good comedic timing. HHH tried it too, but isn't nearly as funny as the Rock.


----------



## .christopher.

Hopefully, by this time next year, they're below a million. Keep dropping.


----------



## OwenSES

Dr. Jones said:


> Which in turn, actually goes back to Brian Gewirtz. Gewirtz wrote a bulk of The Rock's material and still works for him to this day. He gained the reputation while writing for the WWF that he tried to make everyone sound and act like the Rock.
> 
> Rock is the exception, not the rule. Rock can actually pull it off, because he has good comedic timing. HHH tried it too, but isn't nearly as funny as the Rock.


Well I think Cena went down the same route too. Cena wasn't as funny as The Rock but the goofy funny guy worked for him too and he also made a lot of money. 

The point is If you can get the balance right, of being funny and serious, it can make you a huge star. Rocky and Cena are proof of that.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Guys who were best when they were funny

The Rock
Edge & Christian
Eddie Guerrero
Triple H
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
Kurt Angle
Kevin Nash
Chris Jericho

It's like a who's who of wrestling.


----------



## OwenSES

InexorableJourney said:


> Guys who were best when they were funny
> 
> The Rock
> Edge & Christian
> Eddie Guerrero
> Triple H
> Shawn Michaels
> Steve Austin
> Kurt Angle
> Kevin Nash
> Chris Jericho
> 
> It's like a who's who of wrestling.


For sure.

I think if you can balance it out you can be a big star. I mean Eddie Guerrero got over because of the comedy but he also had the intesity and in ring ability to back it up 03/04 era. 

Even Batista was pretty goofy when he was top face.


----------



## Chasingamymatt

InexorableJourney said:


> Guys who were best when they were funny
> 
> The Rock
> Edge & Christian
> Eddie Guerrero
> Triple H
> Shawn Michaels
> Steve Austin
> Kurt Angle
> Kevin Nash
> Chris Jericho
> 
> It's like a who's who of wrestling.


Thats all true but of those when they were "the top guy" they werent doing comedy - only Austin when he was a heel from what i remember and the Rock. The rest had their moments but personally I would take ass kicking Nash, Wrestling Machine Kurt, Pr!ck heel HBK over their comedy characters anyday. 

Looking back i think Kurts comedic side hurt him as a top guy, same with Jericho & Eddie but again thats just personal taste.


----------



## DammitChrist

InexorableJourney said:


> Guys who were best when they were funny
> 
> The Rock
> Edge & Christian
> Eddie Guerrero
> Triple H
> Shawn Michaels
> Steve Austin
> Kurt Angle
> Kevin Nash
> Chris Jericho
> 
> It's like a who's who of wrestling.


Yep, I’d also throw in CM Punk in there since he was often witty when he roasted other people. 

There’s also Mick Foley too who had some comic-relief moments.


----------



## Zappers

I think the point that is being made is look at the list. None of the guys now are even close to them. Balancing comedy and seriousness. What comes across now, seems a little cringe. Like they are uncomfortable with the material themselves. There's a few that do it well. Miz being one example. Confidence in yourself and the material is a big plus. Gotta go all in.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.868M [25th] | 0.550D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.740M [27th] | 0.480D [7th]
V3 | D3: 1.728M [28th] | 0.500D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.779M | 0.510D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.128M | - 6.85% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.73% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.012M | - 0.69% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 4.17% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.140M | - 7.49% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.09% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.089M | + 5.27% ]
[ - 0.023D | - 4.32% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.348M | - 16.36% ]
[ - 0.173D | - 25.33% ]*


----------



## ClintDagger

Held up a bit better in H3 but obviously it takes a ton to make that happen.


----------



## chronoxiong

So they regained 300k viewers to see Drew win back the WWE Title. Not bad.


----------



## justin waynes

Drew is the only reason with the hurt business why the ratings is doing above 1.3 million viewers


----------



## RT1981

Alexa & Bray = Ratings the more they are on the higher the ratings go up.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

They really need to just get rid of the womens tag team titles, with Mandy out of action and Riott Squad being the Riott Squad (they dont ever win anything💀) there is NOBODY to beat Nia and Shayna! Unless they bring back the Bellas, but even then.. there would be NOBODY to beat the Bellas!

If they wanted Lacey to have a legit team they should have did Lacey and Mandy, then there would be somebody to beat Nia and Shayna.. but as that is now is not believable because all Peyton does is hold tag partners back, she did it to Billie and is now doing it to Lacey.. why the fuck did they sign this clown? Especially when they had Billie, we could have had Billie and Emma as a team instead of this deadweight jobber!

But yeah.. the womens tag titles are kind of pointless, because they cant make any good teams and fail at booking them.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

Both men and women this has got to be the worst most weakest Team RAW ever


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.904M [22nd] | 0.610D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.826M [23rd] | 0.580D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.694M [27th] | 0.510D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.808M | 0.567D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.078M | - 4.10% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.92% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.132M | - 7.23% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.07% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.210M | - 11.03% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 16.39% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.029M | + 1.63% ]
[ + 0.057D | + 11.18% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.301M | - 14.27% ]
[ - 0.143D | - 20.14% ]*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.904M [22nd] | 0.610D [4th]
> V2 | D2: 1.826M [23rd] | 0.580D [5th]
> V3 | D3: 1.694M [27th] | 0.510D [6th]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.808M | 0.567D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.078M | - 4.10% ]
> [ - 0.030D | - 4.92% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.132M | - 7.23% ]
> [ - 0.070D | - 12.07% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.210M | - 11.03% ]
> [ - 0.100D | - 16.39% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ + 0.029M | + 1.63% ]
> [ + 0.057D | + 11.18% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.301M | - 14.27% ]
> [ - 0.143D | - 20.14% ]*


*11/23/20

1.808M
0.567D

11/24/14

4.246M
1.520D

In 6 years, RAW lost 57.42% in viewership and 62.70% in demo.
In 6 years, RAW lost 2.438M and 0.953D in absolute terms.*


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Not good numbers. Even for a fall out Survivor Series Raw show.


----------



## Kentucky34

They are really missing Seth's segments.


----------



## chronoxiong

They gained back 250k viewers this week. Thats good to see.


----------



## llj

No Drew and ratings go up


----------



## CMPunkRock316

chronoxiong said:


> They gained back 250k viewers this week. Thats good to see.


29,000 increase


----------



## Dr. Jones

llj said:


> No Drew and ratings go up


But but he's a YUGE DRAW!!!


----------



## chronoxiong

CMPunkRock316 said:


> 29,000 increase


Lol my bad. No clue how my math went wrong there lol


----------



## Zappers

The last hour should have done a little but better. Especially with AJ Styles vs Orton. It wasn't advertised, but The Fiend being there at the end, it was obvious he was showing up during that match. Plus you had the Alexa Vs Nikki stuff too.

Remember the good old days when RAW vs Nitro. That last hour. People flipping back and forth/ taping one show. Pulling in 6's . must see TV. Good times.


----------



## YamchaRocks

Underwhelming numbers. But that's to be expected when your main event scene consists purely of untrained size guys. 

Bring Undisputed Era and Cole and build the brand around them.


----------



## La Parka

YamchaRocks said:


> Underwhelming numbers. But that's to be expected when your main event scene consists purely of untrained size guys.
> 
> Bring Undisputed Era and Cole and build the brand around them.


Outside of Braun. Who in the Raw main event picture is untrained?


----------



## YamchaRocks

La Parka said:


> Outside of Braun. Who in the Raw main event picture is untrained?


Wyatt and McIntyre.


----------



## DammitChrist

Drew McIntyre can wrestle really well though.


----------



## sideon

YamchaRocks said:


> Underwhelming numbers. But that's to be expected when your main event scene consists purely of untrained size guys.
> 
> Bring Undisputed Era and Cole and build the brand around them.


And what are the ratings like on Wednesday featuring the Undisputed Era?


----------



## YamchaRocks

DammitChrist said:


> Drew McIntyre can wrestle really well though.


Disagreed. His style would fit in 1999, he's not athetic enough for current workrate standards. Something like a suicide dive should be a staple move for every wrestler these days, like a clothesline 20 years ago. Drew wrestles way too safe.


sideon said:


> And what are the ratings like on Wednesday featuring the Undisputed Era?


Good enough considering they're up against the best wrestling show on TV and Nxt is a developmental brand.


----------



## justin waynes

If drew was aound it could have been up to 2 million viewers


----------



## justin waynes

If drew was aound it could have been up to 2 million viewers


----------



## sideon

YamchaRocks said:


> Disagreed. His style would fit in 1999, he's not athetic enough for current workrate standards. Something like a suicide dive should be a staple move for every wrestler these days, like a clothesline 20 years ago. Drew wrestles way too safe.
> 
> *Good enough considering they're up against the best wrestling show* on TV and Nxt is a developmental brand.


   Since when is a weekly trainwreck the best wrestling on TV?


----------



## Kentucky34

sideon said:


> Since when is a weekly trainwreck the best wrestling on TV?


I'm sorry but NXT is the best weekly wrestling show on TV.


----------



## .christopher.

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *11/23/20
> 
> 1.808M
> 0.567D
> 
> 11/24/14
> 
> 4.246M
> 1.520D
> 
> In 6 years, RAW lost 57.42% in viewership and 62.70% in demo.
> In 6 years, RAW lost 2.438M and 0.953D in absolute terms.*


2014. Coincides with the beginning of Reigns' push. No surprises here.


----------



## Fearless Viper

No ratings today?


----------



## ClintDagger

Fearless Viper said:


> No ratings today?


Still behind from Thanksgiving I’m guessing.


----------



## Klitschko

YamchaRocks said:


> Wyatt and McIntyre.


And then you wonder why people think you are the textbook definition of a troll.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.828M [14th] | 0.560D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.763M [15th] | 0.530D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.632M [19th] | 0.490D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.741M | 0.527D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.065M | - 3.56% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.36% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.131M | - 7.43% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.55% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.196M | - 10.72% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.067M | - 3.71% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.05% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.467M | - 21.15% ]
[ - 0.166D | - 23.95% ]*


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number. 

No stars = Declining ratings. 

Seth was drawing 2.5 million viewers last year.


----------



## CovidFan

Kentucky34 said:


> Bad number.
> 
> No stars = Declining ratings.
> 
> Seth was drawing 2.5 million viewers last year.


You gotta work harder at that. Seth Rollins a month after WM 31 and his first world title win:


> This week's show, an "A" effort or not, drew just 3.57 million viewers. The Observer notes that's the smallest viewing audience for a non-holiday, non-football season episode of _Raw_ since 1997.


Seth leaves RAW a month or two ago when it's drawing 1.6M to 1.8M people. So according to your logic, Seth's not a star since RAW's been hemmoraging viewers for 5 years due to Seth.


----------



## Dr. Jones

Hopefully people will chill on the McIntyre is a HUGE STAR and a DRAW talk for a while. He was in the main event. The 3rd hour dropped down to around where it normally is. If he was the star that people say he is, people would wait till the end to see him


----------



## DammitChrist

(5-month old) gimmicks are bad. That is all.


----------



## justin waynes

1


Dr. Jones said:


> Hopefully people will chill on the McIntyre is a HUGE STAR and a DRAW talk for a while. He was in the main event. The 3rd hour dropped down to around where it normally is. If he was the star that people say he is, people would wait till the end to see him


Very moved the ratings,smackdown ratings were low too last week,we know the problem.


----------



## Zappers

justin waynes said:


> Very moved the ratings,smackdown ratings were low too last week,*we know the problem*.


Hallmark Channel 24/7 Christmas movies.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Good thing they took Miz out of the main event and ratings went back up slightly, at least. Better than where they were before when he was involved and they did the lowest rated Raw main event EVER.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Issue with Miz at this point is they've treated him like a complete mid carder since he lost the title back in 2011 (and even during the reign, he eventually became an afterthought to Rock/Cena). And in recent times he's been even below the mid-card imo. He's slightly above jobber territory. He has no momentum right now, he's less of a threat to anyone than Otis was. The couple of times in the last few years he had some momentum (the Talking Smack promo in 2016 and the face turn against Shane in 2019), they did nothing with him in the long term. Now they finally put MITB back on him and it looks like they might eventually put the title on him (if Drew's gonna face Roman at Mania for Universal Title)... but they do it when he has no credibility at all. They pulled the trigger on this "main event push" far too late and with absolutely no build up to it. 

It makes sense he wouldn't draw in anybody at this point. He's got basically nothing going for him right now. Even his promos, his strongest point, lack any real substance nowadays. He could've been put in that "ultimate opportunist" type role Edge had after Edge retired. Miz could've felt somewhat like a star by this point if they had gone that route. Instead they treat him near-jobber level and then expect people to buy into him being WWE Champion again (if he actually becomes champ again).


----------



## xio4up

Aew monday night would take away half their viewers.


----------



## postmoderno

What's with the late ratings again?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.852M [12th] | 0.550D [4th]
V2 | D2: 1.775M [15th] | 0.520D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.583M [22nd] | 0.470D [7th]

3V | 3D: 1.737M | 0.513D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.077M | - 4.16% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.45% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.192M | - 10.82% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.62% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.269M | - 14.52% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 14.55% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.004M | - 0.23% ]
[ - 0.014D | - 2.66% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.413M | - 19.21% ]
[ - 0.174D | - 25.33% ]*


----------



## Rankles75

NFL Monday night double header last night, so pretty much what I’d expect. Very similar to last week’s numbers iirc?


----------



## MoxAsylum

Nobody with a brain is watching RAW


----------



## llj

Bad numbers again, but RAW has surprisingly weathered through the fall period without declining as far as they should (we should be at 1.3s and 1.4s by now at the rate they were declining from late last year to the middle of summer), even though the show still stinks. They've been stuck dead at 1.7m per week since around August.

Last year around this time they were bleeding much more rapidly.


----------



## xio4up

1.3 - 1.4 after wm next year. guarnteed


----------



## DaSlacker

llj said:


> Bad numbers again, but RAW has surprisingly weathered through the fall period without declining as far as they should (we should be at 1.3s and 1.4s by now at the rate they were declining from late last year to the middle of summer), even though the show still stinks. They've been stuck dead at 1.7m per week since around August.
> 
> Last year around this time they were bleeding much more rapidly.


It will comes in waves. There were years when they held the rating or even increased it. So if you're one of those 1.7 million who has stuck through the summer, before ThunderDome and when Drew, Orton, Rollins, Mysterio. Ziggler, Asuka and Lashley were keeping the lights on. Well you're a very hardened person. 

They can get it back to 2 million, as seen after SummerSlam. So bringing back Lynch, Charlotte, Edge and whoever else they find during the build for Mania should help steady the waters. 

Their next problem will arise as the ageing talent leave or scale back. For example, the following guys are all now in their 40's: Orton, Miz, Hardy, Styles, Morrison, Lashley and Sheamus. Unless they can make more stars they will gradually lose the 250,000 floating viewers who turn up for hour 1 when the 'names' from 10 years ago aren't around as much.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.627M [28th] | 0.440D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.512M [30th] | 0.410D [10th]
V3 | D3: 1.441M [32nd] | 0.380D [12th]

3V | 3D: 1.527M | 0.410D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.115M | - 7.07% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 6.82% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.071M | - 4.70% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 7.32% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.186M | - 11.43% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 13.64% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.210M | - 12.09% ]
[ - 0.103D | - 20.08% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.527M | - 25.66% ]
[ - 0.193D | - 32.01% ]*


----------



## RT1981

that poor 3rd hour so sad.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> that poor 3rd hour so sad.


Yea, these low/bad ratings gradually decreasing was always going to happen.

I honestly expect lower ratings for the next couple of weeks no matter what they decide to do.


----------



## postmoderno

WOW.


----------



## thenglishpatriot

holy shit and you know what they absolutely fucking deserve this after that last nights opening segment


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, these low/bad ratings gradually decreasing was always going to happen.
> 
> I honestly expect lower ratings for the next couple of weeks no matter what they decide to do.


you was right earlier in the year that it don't matter who they push.i've started seeing that now it really don't matter what they do the ratings are going to go down unless its a major shift like vince steping down and we get real change and might be too late for that now the damage has been done.


----------



## chronoxiong

Damn at that hour 3 rating. That is sad. Really goes to show how many people are watching this show now. Even discussions for RAW have been low. Yikes


----------



## RainmakerV2

Drew is fucking Boring. 1.4 lmao.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Pretty sure that's the lowest rated Hour 3 in Raw history.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> you was right earlier in the year that it don't matter who they push.i've started seeing that now it really don't matter what they do the ratings are going to go down unless its a major shift like vince steping down and we get real change.


Yea, it's fine. Sometimes, I get heated/frustrated whenever some folks (not you) point the finger on the individual wrestlers when they're really just the spokes on the wheel of the corporate vehicle. Their product plus booking is just really bland and inconsistent for many fans, which is why they keep losing more people.

At this point, I think it'll take a collective effort from both the management/creative team (writing good shows with decent booking consistently for several months), and MULTIPLE top/popular wrestlers (doing whatever they can to entertain fans with their performances in the ring or during promos).

I honestly expect the ratings to bump up a bit during the Road to Wrestlemania (37), but I'm not anticipating any impressive numbers early-next year at this rate. They'll likely get a slight spike in viewership whenever live crowds finally return.


----------



## RCSheppy

The show is an embarrassment.


----------



## The XL 2

AEW isn't going to catch Raw, but Raw might catch AEW, lmao


----------



## RainmakerV2

Drews been a virtually undefeated World Champ for going on 10 months. When does he get his share of the blame? Hes weirdly untouchable for some reason it seems.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Drews been a virtually undefeated World Champ for going on 10 months. When does he get his share of the blame? Hes weirdly untouchable for some reason it seems.


Maybe it's because Raw would still get mediocre ratings (and they'll likely keep declining in viewership too) with OR without Drew McIntyre being pushed in the main-event scene, which is why not so many people are even blaming him to begin with?


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Maybe it's because Raw would still get mediocre ratings (and they'll likely keep declining in viewership too) with OR without Drew McIntyre being pushed in the main-event scene, which is why not so many people are even blaming him to begin with?



Doesnt matter. Hes been virtually undefeated for 10 months. Hes the guy who himself even claimed is carrying the company through hard times. Hes the quarterback. If the team sucks the Quarterback gets the blame. Thats reality. People seem to give him a forever pass. Thats bullshit. If SDs ratings were cratering the way Raws are, you best believe people would be on Romans ass. It goes both ways.


----------



## The XL 2

Dave Batistas return in 2014 drew 5 million viewers. In under 7 years, Raw has lost over 3 times the audience. That's completely insane. At some point, WWE will either fix the ship or they will go out of business.


----------



## Ace

HAHAHAHAH

Deserved for such god awful writing.

Raw is unwatchable garbage.

Their world title feud is playing fourth fiddle to a cash in attempt, two friends we all know are going to split (meaning again AJ doesn't stand a chance because Drew will be defending the title against Sheamus down the line) and some fat fuck in a clown mask.

Worse yet they tell us the champion's opponent doesn't stand a chance by having the champ no sell multple finishers and bitch out their challenger to some 8 foot bodyguard. Then there's the fact the challenger brings up how he's going to have the MITB holder and his friend interfere to help him at MITB.

Why the fuck would anyone want to watch this shit?

Seriously.

Done are the days of the chicken shit heel (especially WWE, everyone there seems to play that role and they're all major geeks), that's change the channel and never watch again rubbish.


----------



## Ace

RCSheppy said:


> The show is an embarrassment.


 An embarrassment to pro wrestling.


----------



## InexorableJourney

2021 The year Dynamite beats RAW in the ratings.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Doesnt matter. Hes been virtually undefeated for 10 months. Hes the guy who himself even claimed is carrying the company through hard times. Hes the quarterback. If the team sucks the Quarterback gets the blame. Thats reality. People seem to give him a forever pass. Thats bullshit. If SDs ratings were cratering the way Raws are, you best believe people would be on Romans ass. It goes both ways.


Honestly, I wouldn't even blame Roman Reigns for the unimpressive Smackdown ratings either (at least in my case) if they ended up matching Raw's mediocre ratings.

I don't think Smackdown's viewership will do much better without having Reigns around. Hell, they were still getting mediocre ratings before he even returned at Summerslam 4 months ago. I don't think anyone on the current roster is really a big TV draw.

Hell, Randy Orton is arguably the company's biggest star out of the current names that they have, and Raw STILL couldn't get over 2 million viewers (consistently) when he won the WWE title recently. That's after the great year he's had so far too with his work as a character. This ratings decline is pretty much out of the hands of the individual talents at this point.


----------



## Ace

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't even blame Roman Reigns for the unimpressive Smackdown ratings either (at least in my case) if they ended up matching Raw's mediocre ratings.
> 
> I don't think Smackdown's viewership will do much better without having Reigns around. Hell, they were still getting mediocre ratings before he even returned at Summerslam 4 months ago. I don't think anyone on the current roster is really a big TV draw.
> 
> Hell, Randy Orton is arguably the company's biggest star out of the current names that they have, and Raw STILL couldn't get over 2 million viewers (consistently) when he won the WWE title recently. That's after the great year he's had so far too with his work as a character. This ratings decline is pretty much out of the hands of the individual talents at this point.


 Tell me a single thing that's good about the world title feud.

It's not even the most important feud in the freaking world title picture.

They're promoting the MITB cash in and Sheamus more than the feud itself.

They think anyone gives a fuck about either of that. If they focused on the world title picture and stopped trying to make Drew some superhero who can beat everyone and their mother and someone who can be beaten people might actually watch.


----------



## DammitChrist

Ace said:


> Tell me a single thing that's good about the world title feud.
> 
> It's not even the most important feud in the freaking world title picture.
> 
> They're promoting the MITB cash in and Sheamus more than the feud itself.
> 
> They think anyone gives a fuck about either of that. If they focused on the world title picture and stopped trying to make Drew some superhero who can beat everyone and their mother people might actually watch.


Oh, I wasn't really going on about the show itself or even the WWE title scene. I was making a point on how none of the current wrestlers really have much influence to the ratings (anymore)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Damn, what happened to DREW THE DRAW?! I was told he carried Smackdown's ratings during the Survivor Series build. It's almost like that was an obvious crock of shit.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338960668024860672*


----------



## Ace

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Damn, what happened to DREW THE DRAW?! I was told he carried Smackdown's ratings during the Survivor Series build. It's almost like that was an obvious crock of shit.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338960668024860672*


 Roman is the only draw they really have.

Worse yet for Drew is Raw has consisted of him no selling and killing every heel for the last year.


----------



## RT1981

would not be shocked to see Vince get Reigns back on raw thinking that will solve the ratings problems.

maybe a trade of reigns to raw and Drew to smackdown.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Roman is the only draw they really have.
> 
> Worse yet for Drew is Raw has consisted of him no selling and killing every heel for the last year.


*Sasha's been the biggest draw in wrestling since the summer. Her segments do better than Roman's.*


----------



## Ace

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Sasha's been the biggest draw in wrestling since the summer. Her segments do better than Roman's.*


 SD went up 100,000-200,000 once Roman came back.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> SD went up 100,000-200,000 once Roman came back.


*And her segments still do better 🤷*


----------



## Ace

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And her segments still do better 🤷*


 Yet SD's ratings as a whole were average until Roman returned.

You need a draw to boost the overall ratings e.g. Goldberg's return, segments can easily be topped if they're at the top of the hour when people are flicking back and forth.


----------



## One Shed

Last night might have been the worst RAW ever quality-wise. They deserve the low rating.


----------



## La Parka

Raw has been a dry show for years. There is literally not a single person or angle that is interesting at the moment. If you watch the first Raw after the PPV you can predict how the next 4 weeks will play out. (meaningless 6 man tags, silly segments, the same catchphrases over and over, meaningless single matches where the winner is irrelevant to anything)

The lack of crowd highlighted what many already knew, which is Raw is one of the worst TV shows in the world.

Even as a wrestling fan who can sit down and enjoy a match without a crowd, its pretty tough to get through.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Last night might have been the worst RAW ever quality-wise. They deserve the low rating.


Are you sure though?

I thought there were Raw episodes back in August and September that were far worse than the episode last night 

Seriously, that brief period where they added segments with Raw Underground (the skits that didn't have Dolph Ziggler fighting) and Retribution (pre-Mustafa Ali) was BAD (at least to me) :lol


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Are you sure though?
> 
> I thought there were Raw episodes back in August and September that were far worse than the episode last night
> 
> Seriously, that brief period where they added segments with Raw Underground (the skits that didn't have Dolph Ziggler fighting) and Retribution (pre-Mustafa Ali) was BAD (at least to me) :lol


No, if I thought about it more I am sure I would come up with one I hated more. Last night was awful though and is the one (sadly) most fresh in my mind.


----------



## RoyalAsuka

They show needs to be cut back to two hours.

Most of show is hard to watch filled with useless replays, fillers and inconsistencies. 
On the other hand SD is always concise and not all over the place.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Ace said:


> Yet SD's ratings as a whole were average until Roman returned.
> 
> You need a draw to boost the overall ratings e.g. Goldberg's return, segments can easily be topped if they're at the top of the hour when people are flicking back and forth.


Boss is right. He has tweets to back it up.


----------



## Seafort

RT1981 said:


> you was right earlier in the year that it don't matter who they push.i've started seeing that now it really don't matter what they do the ratings are going to go down unless its a major shift like vince steping down and we get real change and might be too late for that now the damage has been done.


It’s not too late, but you’re looking at 6 months of good programming to stop the decline and up to 18 months of great programming to start growing the audience.


----------



## holy

How long until Vince brings Undertaker out of retirement to help these sinking ratings? Any guesses, folks?


----------



## MrMeeseeks

wonder how long till USA starts to hard press vince to get rating up or they get the boot


----------



## Klitschko

Wasn't RAW getting around 2.2 in January? If true, they lost around 700k in about a year.


----------



## RT1981

Seafort said:


> It’s not too late, but you’re looking at 6 months of good programming to stop the decline and up to 18 months of great programming to start growing the audience.


agreed but only way we get 6 months of great programming is if Vince steps down cause him being there changing plans at the last min like he always does will not cut it.


----------



## Seafort

RT1981 said:


> agreed but only way we get 6 months of great programming is if Vince steps down cause him being there changing plans at the last min like he always does will not cut it.


Or step back. Get someone that you trust to implement a new creative vision on one or both shows for the next 18 months. WWE has an enormous financial cushion and is far more profitable now than ever before. They can afford to experiment in the near term. But what they cannot do is what they have been doing - squandering this time with the same sort of start-stop turnstile of writers and Creative Executives as they do with the pushes of their roster. 

Because eventually they will get to the point where they are a year a way from a lucrative renewal and they are pulling in 750K viewers a week. By then, it will be too late to engineer a turnaround in as quick of a fashion as needed to get that high dollar deal, and there will be no Attitude Era levers to pull. 

This actually has a serious shot of happening, and I expect that in 2023 they'll sell the company outright to Disney or Amazon.


----------



## justin waynes

Ace said:


> Roman is the only draw they really have.
> 
> Worse yet for Drew is Raw has consisted of him no selling and killing every heel for the last year.


Am sick of your shit of calling roman the draw,his segment are the lowest in smackdown,Sasha is the real draw there,the ratings of smackdown were always better before roman returned and is going down even with roman.
You can't compare USA network to fox.roman on raw won't draw shit at all


----------



## ClintDagger

Vince isn’t stepping back. He’ll either run it all the way into the ground or die in the chair. Guy has nothing else in life he finds enjoyable.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Two Sheds said:


> Last night might have been the worst RAW ever quality-wise. They deserve the low rating.


I've gave up on RAW weeks ago. The fiend and alexa stuff turned me away and Drew is just absolutely boring, honestly nothing but geeks on the show for the most part. I wish AJ would leave the company and salvage what's left of his career in AEW. I didn't even bother watching last weeks SD. The WWE is just bland right now


----------



## kamaro011

Man i wish WWE problem is just Vince and only him, but it wasnt.

Sure he is one of the main problem, but i think there's many and bigger problem than just Vince being senile and old age catching up on him.


----------



## .christopher.

I'm still not happy with these ratings. Keep sinking.


----------



## Charzhino

.christopher. said:


> I'm still not happy with these ratings. Keep sinking.


Nothing will change until the rating gets to brutal lows. I'm praying that come mid-Jan they are in the 1.2's.


----------



## RT1981

The XL 2 said:


> Dave Batistas return in 2014 drew 5 million viewers. In under 7 years, Raw has lost over 3 times the audience. That's completely insane. At some point, WWE will either fix the ship or they will go out of business.


that was also at the time they pissed Punk off causing him to walk off and had the fans not of hijacked the shows and WWE caving into them it no telling how bad it would had gotten hell the ratings now could be far worse and already less than million had they went with there plans of a Batista/Orton main event.


----------



## Smark1995

USA Network officials are reportedly upset with the recent WWE RAW ratings.

In an update, WWE officials aren’t the only ones who had a big reaction to this week’s record-low numbers as there was a similar reaction at the USA Network, according to Alex McCarthy of talkSPORT.

It was noted that USA Network management is furious with the drop in ratings, and they want more dark and violent content.

“USA Network are furious. They want more adult content. Not sexy adult, but dark and violent adult,” the source said.

It was also said that WWE officials are hoping that the 2021 Royal Rumble pay-per-view can serve as some kind of a “big reset” for the company.


----------



## Erik.

Lol


----------



## justin waynes

Good news,pg shit sucks enough already😠😠


----------



## Han Popo

Just a friendly reminder that WCW even during their heyday was PG, WWE in the 80s and better part of the 90s was PG.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

WWE is dying, and honestly they deserve it. They have been complacent for far too long. AEW isn't far behind in ratings and they are a one year old wrestling company.


----------



## troubleman1218

I’ll believe it when I see it. Besides USA Network is part of the fucking blame. RAW’s ratings started tanking as soon as they added that extra hour. They are also reason why WWE brought back the Brand Split.


----------



## Fearless Viper

3 hrs says hi.


----------



## NapperX

USA Network wants WWE to smarten up........threaten to cancel them.......HHH and Steph stopped listening to the fans, and HHH even made fun of fans for giving up on the product........return the favor.


----------



## InexorableJourney

I'm surprised they're not asking for Roman.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Third hour has to be the first thing to go... followed by Vince.


----------



## FITZ

They should take the ropes of the ring and have shoot style matches! Easy ratings boost.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

USA isn’t to blame for 3 hour RAWs sucking. WWE is to blame for not properly using their talent and having proper script writing that generates interesting storytelling.


----------



## Shleppy

So blading and blood coming back to Raw?


----------



## Britz94xD

The irony if USA were like "Hey we don't want sports-entertainment, we want wrestling". Oof


----------



## yeahright2

InexorableJourney said:


> I'm surprised they're not asking for Roman.


Maybe they are. "Adult and dark" could mean they think the Roman family storyline is good ?


----------



## Kevin Diesel Nash

Pro wrestling is just dying as an industry. There isn't much they can do to change things at this point. 

I'm surprised it took this long actually.


----------



## OldSchoolRocks

USA network was the clowns that came up with the 24/7 joke roll up Benny Hill championship and wanted "Retribution" so I would not get anyone's hopes up from this.


----------



## Seafort

WWE response:

1) Hire more wrestlers over the age of 21. That increases adult content. And hope that no one at USA realizes that their entire current roster are adults.

2) Increase violence quotient by introducing Tables, Ladders, and Pillows matches. Also introduce M&Ms and Skittles as sponsored weapons

3) Dark content can be realized by turning off the LED screens at the Thunderdome and turning off the arena lights


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

Years and years of only pushing the same few people, burying anyone who actually gets over and actually puts in any effort is finally catching up to them. Wheres the appeal in watching Raw thesedays when its just 3 hours of irrelevant jobbers and Drew McIntyre and The Fiend stinking up the joint.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

Kevin Diesel Nash said:


> Pro wrestling is just dying as an industry. There isn't much they can do to change things at this point.
> 
> I'm surprised it took this long actually.


For sure wrestling is not as popular as it was but a bad product is still a bad product. They certainly aren't helping themselves. If it was good, more people would be watching. There will always be an audience for wrestling as long as the product is good. It seems even the few loyal hardcore fans who watch are even starting to give up on it.


----------



## Seafort

Kevin Diesel Nash said:


> Pro wrestling is just dying as an industry. There isn't much they can do to change things at this point.
> 
> I'm surprised it took this long actually.


It only appears that way because WWE has spent the last ten years being ultra-conservative, contrarian just for the joy of it, and ossified themselves in corporate tradition. They're 1970s General Motors. It doesn't mean that a younger, innovative competitor cannot and will not reinvent what modern pro wrestling and/or sports entertainment can be.


----------



## Pojko

I wonder why no one's watching when WWE has become the biggest indie fed in history. Look at all the names who are there right now, and then think about all the guys people were asking for 10 years ago. Fans got what they wanted. It was basically a pro sports team getting all the biggest amateur names and trying to make a competitive team out of them, rather than the real professional athletes everyone else uses.


----------



## The XL 2

The talent sucks and McMahon and Bruce Pritchard can't book wrestling anymore. They're doomed, they're not turning this around. Steve Austin and The Rock aren't walking through that door, nor is Vince Russo.


----------



## Seafort

OldSchoolRocks said:


> USA network was the clowns that came up with the 24/7 joke roll up Benny Hill championship and wanted "Retribution" so I would not get anyone's hopes up from this.


I was thinking about Retribution the other day for a minute, and I fear that this is more thought that went into the motives and background for this faction. There's actually a lot that could have been done with Retribution, but I daresay that none of the below questions were answered, or even worse may never have been asked:


Who is the leader of Retribution, and why should the audience care?
What are their motivations? Why are they attacking? What is it about WWE that they want to change?
What are their objectives?
Should the members of Retribution have strict, kayfabe social media championing their cause?
What is the ultimate end point of this angle? How does it grow interest in our product?


----------



## The Wood

I’m skeptical of this. If USA were furious, they would redistribute or cancel that third hour. I mean, better ratings would be preferable, as would better content, but I just can’t see USA sweating this.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

The entire structure of the show needs to change. As well as the content. 

But they're going to get nowhere with their aesthetic, the goofy oversaturated graphics, the format of the show. Maybe even the concept of a pro wrestling variety hour game show has simply run its course 

Innovate


----------



## JerryMark

Han Popo said:


> Just a friendly reminder that WCW even during their heyday was PG, WWE in the 80s and better part of the 90s was PG.


you don't have to be TV14 or MA to be adult and serious.

who can watch the sterile overly produced nonsense the wwe has put out for over a decade?


----------



## Ham and Egger

Vince only knows cringe comedy and bathroom humor. It's a tall order for him to produce anything with real substance.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

But the wwe fanatics say demos don't matter lol 😂. Wwe is dying and I love every second of it


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Botchy SinCara said:


> But the wwe fanatics say demos don't matter lol 😂. Wwe is dying and I love every second of it


With the money it has it's not gonna die for a very long time, if ever. To be fair, all wrestling is dying unfortunately.


----------



## Chan Hung

"In an update, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that part of this is because Vince McMahon wants more “monsters” as in the past, when business is bad, McMahon blames the fact that there are smaller guys on top. It was noted that he currently doesn’t believe he has any big guys who can work at that level. "

----
Well we shall see ^.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> With the money it has it's not gonna die for a very long time, if ever. To be fair, all wrestling is dying unfortunately.


Aew is growing despite what others try to shill here ..they do some of the best numbers for tnt and their young demos gone up ..they been able to pull in new and younger fans


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ain't no one sticking around 3 hours to see the fucking MIZ and Drew in the final segment of the night.

Lowest rated Raw of all time, BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


----------



## Stellar

If USA truly wants RAW to improve then they need to yank the third hour from RAW. Seriously. I know that the USA network depends on WWE at this point but that 3rd hour really makes a huge difference on whether anyone wants to spend their Monday Nights watching RAW or not. That isn't the only issue, but it is one reason for the decline. That is also a reason why Smackdown is much easier to watch right now.


----------



## Krin

hope this is true, when WWE sent out surveys to people subscribed to the Network, they did ask if people want a more adult or PG-13 type show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Botchy SinCara said:


> Aew is growing despite what others try to shill here ..they do some of the best numbers for tnt and their young demos gone up ..they been able to pull in new and younger fans


While their demo may be in a good place the fact is they've stayed in the exact same position for over a year now between 700k-900k. They've lost over half their viewership from their first episode. Unless they do something major and revolutionary for wrestling they'll never be bigger than what they are now.


----------



## Victor86

Wwe won’t improve as long as they keep sticking to the same old formulas and bringing back people who haven’t been relevant for 2 decades like Hogan.

They should completely redesign the show especially now with no mice audience as they can easily experiment .

I think they got a great idea with Raw underground but they ended up pussing out of it instead to improving it.

The “Fight format” has a lot of potential as it doesn’t focus on some fake ring skills and can give a more dark/ mature feel of the whole show.

Shey should have used the thunder dome and fused it with Raw Underground creating a unique Vegas style/ Sci if/ Cyberpunk arena with dancing chicks and a lot of lights.

Should have created some God Father / Al Capone type of GM, someone like Batista who has all kinds of expensive / fancy outfits that would try to rig matches and force fighters to lose so his champ has easier way, etc.

Instead they just scrapped the entire thing and bring back 67 year old Hogan who does nothing to the current audience and can’t wrestle or take bumps.

Wwe needs completely new management at this point


----------



## validreasoning

The Wood said:


> I’m skeptical of this. If USA were furious, they would redistribute or cancel that third hour. I mean, better ratings would be preferable, as would better content, but I just can’t see USA sweating this.


USA aren't going to freak out over one week and it was still by far and away their highest rated show this week.

Anyway USA tried a bunch of tv-ma programming last year like treadstone and the purge and it bombed.


Botchy SinCara said:


> Aew is growing despite what others try to shill here ..they do some of the best numbers for tnt and their young demos gone up ..they been able to pull in new and younger fans


AEW have spent hundreds of millions and only drew 40k more viewers this week than a developmental show that costs USA next to nothing to air.

As for close to dying....

WWE Network revenue first 9 months of 2020 = $140m (WWEs total ppv revenue in 2010 was $70m). Network also saw rise in revenue last quarter compared to third quarter 2019 ($47m vs $44m).

Advertising and sponsorship first 9 months of 2020 just shy of $49m up from $44m same period last year.

Online merch sales just shy of $28m compared to just less than $19m last year

WWEs portion of video game sales $28m compared to $26m first 9 months of 2019


----------



## 304418

JerryMark said:


> you don't have to be TV14 or MA to be adult and serious.


Usually, such a rating is a sign that a show is adult oriented. But in the case of wrestling, it isn’t.

The problem with wrestling, even under a TV-14 rating, is that it leans towards the goofy. If the territory system still existed today, that is how the US style would be defined.

TNA has Russo booking like Last Rites and feud over Hogan’s HOF ring.

LU was a fantasy show in a wrestling setting.

AEW is the wannabe comedy variety show in a wrestling ring.

Ruthless Aggression Era had Boogeyman and Eugene.

Attitude Era had Beaver Cleavage.

Russo-era WCW has Stacy Keibler give birth to a book to parody Mae Young giving birth to a hand.

Meanwhile, UFC takes its seriously. And Marvel, Star Wars, and NJPW have a bit of light humour as a reminder to not take what’s going on too seriously, but still serious enough that you respect what is being presented.

WWE would literally be better off being bought by Disney at this rate if the goal was to be taken seriously.

I would ask USA Network a) what took so long to come to this realization of the show needing to be more adult? b) how do they expect WWE to pull this off when they are also beholden to Mattel. And c) do they realize that they help to create this sinking ship by giving the green light for the show to be 3 hours long?


----------



## Seafort

Chan Hung said:


> "In an update, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that part of this is because Vince McMahon wants more “monsters” as in the past, when business is bad, McMahon blames the fact that there are smaller guys on top. It was noted that he currently doesn’t believe he has any big guys who can work at that level. "
> ----
> Well we shall see ^.


He also doesn’t have rampant steroids and HGH use on his roster, which is another key difference.


----------



## kamaro011

The Wood said:


> I’m skeptical of this. If USA were furious, they would redistribute or cancel that third hour. I mean, better ratings would be preferable, as would better content, but I just can’t see USA sweating this.


The Source is kind dubious.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

It's almost like people don't want to watch a bad show...

Simply going "adult" won't bring about any sort of sustainable ratings increase.

WWe needs interesting characters in riveting storylines that draw people in and, most importantly, get them to tune in the next week.

Or in short... 

Better creative.


----------



## Qudhufo

Whether their TV show is G rated or TV-14 it doesn’t matter at this point.

Their whole presentation of pro wrestling is absolutely trash. To think that it has gotten even more sports entertainment in the last few years is fucking depressing, but this is what the *"wrestling should be silly and fun ”* crowd asked for lol. 

The fake bad comedy bs, flippy boring indy dudes who don’t even know a simple grappling move, cinematic matches etc...


----------



## zkorejo

So basically they want more "Blood and Guts".


----------



## Prosper

Where's the source?


----------



## MrMeeseeks

you can add as much adult themes as you want but no one cares about the story lines on raw and thats on vince and the writers they need to go but we all know vince will die in gorilla before he gives up the company willingly


----------



## TerraRising

Have Rey gouge out Seth's eyeballs. There, Hispanic market saves WWE, not unlike how Bret's European appeal kept them afloat in the 1990s.


----------



## DJ Punk

USA Network hasn't cared in the past decade. Why would they care now? Plus, the more 'adult' related they get, the more sponsors they lose (potentially). Fake report.


----------



## Heath V

Han Popo said:


> Just a friendly reminder that WCW even during their heyday was PG, WWE in the 80s and better part of the 90s was PG.


 Key words 80's and 90's. Look at all of the talent in those respective generations compared to who and what we have nowadays. That right there is your answer.


----------



## deadcool

I am honestly very surprised that its USA that created the stink (I'm assuming that this news is true).

I thought for sure it would be Fox first who would complain to the WWE about their declining ratings. 

USA/NBCU has given WWE way too much wiggle room when it comes to not delivering consistently growing audience/ratings. The fact that they gave WWE such a bloated TV deal is just weird. Its time Vince faces the music and accounts for that $400+ million per year he's getting from NBCU.


----------



## Lorromire

Pojko said:


> I wonder why no one's watching when WWE has become the biggest indie fed in history. Look at all the names who are there right now, and then think about all the guys people were asking for 10 years ago. Fans got what they wanted. It was basically a pro sports team getting all the biggest amateur names and trying to make a competitive team out of them, rather than the real professional athletes everyone else uses.


It doesn't matter if you have the best of the best talent when the writing and booking is utter dogshit. You can only polish a turd so much.


----------



## JerryMark

DJ Punk said:


> USA Network hasn't cared in the past decade. Why would they care now? Plus, the more 'adult' related they get, the more sponsors they lose (potentially). Fake report.


i don't really get the advertising argument anymore. basic cable has all kinds of shows with people getting shot in the head for years now.


----------



## Randy Lahey

validreasoning said:


> USA aren't going to freak out over one week and it was still by far and away their highest rated show this week.
> 
> Anyway USA tried a bunch of tv-ma programming last year like treadstone and the purge and it bombed.
> 
> AEW have spent hundreds of millions and only drew 40k more viewers this week than a developmental show that costs USA next to nothing to air.
> 
> As for close to dying....
> 
> WWE Network revenue first 9 months of 2020 = $140m (WWEs total ppv revenue in 2010 was $70m). Network also saw rise in revenue last quarter compared to third quarter 2019 ($47m vs $44m).
> 
> Advertising and sponsorship first 9 months of 2020 just shy of $49m up from $44m same period last year.
> 
> Online merch sales just shy of $28m compared to just less than $19m last year
> 
> WWEs portion of video game sales $28m compared to $26m first 9 months of 2019


If WWE loses their TV deal or takes a drastic cut, they are dead. Thats a bankruptcy. TV is the lifeblood and WWE Network isn’t enough to sustain them, That’s why when USA is upset with their ratings WWE better listen.


----------



## DJ Punk

JerryMark said:


> i don't really get the advertising argument anymore. basic cable has all kinds of shows with people getting shot in the head for years now.


I don't really get it either tbh, but it's the truth otherwise WWE would have put on a more adult-oriented product by now. Cena's gone and the kids grew up and yet the product is still PG af.


----------



## Kevin Diesel Nash

The problem with pro-wrestling is that it's highly formulaic and relies on recycling old storylines and tricks that have occurred over decades. Once you've watched it for long enough and figure out the formula, it stops being fun.


----------



## InexorableJourney

USA better beware, usually when Vince hears Adult content his mind races to incest.


----------



## IpostHIGH

NapperX said:


> USA Network wants WWE to smarten up........threaten to cancel them.......HHH and Steph stopped listening to the fans, and HHH even made fun of fans for giving up on the product........return the favor.


Oh shut up. Don't blame Triple H for this crap. 

Vince is the one who makes 300 pounds monsters dance in lingerie with midgets.

Triple H is the one who I affiliate with adult content. Whenever i think of an adult content, I think of Triple H.


----------



## Werner Heizenberg

Man, the wishful thinking here is off the charts.


Smark1995 said:


> talkSPORT.


Literally, WHO?



> It was noted that USA Network management is furious with the drop in ratings, and they want more dark and violent content.
> 
> “USA Network are furious. They want more adult content. Not sexy adult, but dark and violent adult,” the source said.


There's no way a serious person in either USA or FOX ever said this.The most they'll ever say is that they want changes.But not "We need you to be more edgy to scare as many advertisers as humanly possible".There's no point in a rating increase that will not result in any increase in revenue from ads.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Pojko said:


> I wonder why no one's watching when WWE has become the biggest indie fed in history. Look at all the names who are there right now, and then think about all the guys people were asking for 10 years ago. Fans got what they wanted. It was basically a pro sports team getting all the biggest amateur names and trying to make a competitive team out of them, rather than the real professional athletes everyone else uses.


A bad movie with an all star cast is still a bad movie.


----------



## jpickens

Plus in the 80's and early- mid 90's when the WWE was PG the wrestlers weren't restricted as in what they can and can't do in the ring.


----------



## the_flock

Talksport, everyone in the UK knows they are a really bad source, they literally make anything up. 

Either way, WWE will have Becky, Brock and Rhonda back next year which will boost ratings, then if they can tie Punk down, happy days.


----------



## DaSlacker

Wrestling always looked fake but at least it looked bar room brawl fake. Now it looks video game fake. Only a really niche audience are interested in a weekly live action Tekken. 

Linear TV is dying. Cable TV is a relic of the 90's. They are situated in an impossible platform. 

Lack of young male stars. Only Seth and Bray are under 35. AJ, Hardy, Rey, Joe and Orton have an average age of the top names in WCW when it went under. Even the NXT call ups are mid 30s. 

Lack of male star power. Miz, Kofi, Owen, JoMo, Dolph, Mahal, Sheamus etc. Would you be desperate to attend a live show with that line up. 

Year after year of incoherent storytelling. One minute Nexus are a dangerous threat and beating up the boss. The next they are comedy jobbers. One minute Vince is removed from day to day operations, the next he's still in charge. Anybody believe The Shield would realistically keep getting back together. Why would TV executives give a fuck about 3/4 the jobbers that make up the roster. Why did The Authority just fade away. After Hell in a Cell 2019, how could Goldberg easily beat The Fiend. How did Retribution not get fired for admitting to attacking the company. If Raw Underground was real, what was the point in the rest of the show. What does Becky think of Seth's behaviour. Why would WWE sanction a eye for an eye match when 20 years ago they wouldn't sanction a 6 man Hell in a Cell... 

Good luck overcoming all this shit. When people move away from soap operas it's very hard to pull them back in.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Maybe USA should re-air silk stalkings, and just have RAW air in a itty bitty window at the bottom of the screen.


----------



## Cult03

I always enjoy seeing these threads and never seeing people say what would make it better. Say what you want about the AEW section but at least the people who are negative about it say what would improve it. 

I have to ask, what is the difference between WWE and AEW's products that makes one must see viewing and the other "dying"? To me they're both really fucking similar.


----------



## SolarPowerBat

Sure VKM will respond positively to this by firing his creative staff and then throwing shit at a wall like some brain dead monkey


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Cult03 said:


> I always enjoy seeing these threads and never seeing people say what would make it better. Say what you want about the AEW section but at least the people who are negative about it say what would improve it.
> 
> I have to ask, what is the difference between WWE and AEW's products that makes one must see viewing and the other "dying"? To me they're both really fucking similar.


If people on here gave their ideas it would be along the lines of pushing guys like Ricochet, Ali and Kevin Owens to the moon, and making the show primarily based around workrate (Which it already is to an extent).


----------



## gillbergisback

More made up bs. WWE had it's lowest rating so USA is furious. An ape could come up with that story.


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> I always enjoy seeing these threads and never seeing people say what would make it better. Say what you want about the AEW section but at least the people who are negative about it say what would improve it.
> 
> I have to ask, what is the difference between WWE and AEW's products that makes one must see viewing and the other "dying"? To me they're both really fucking similar.


Well due to longevity WWE is viewed as the big evil enemy that folk no longer have faith in. People won't suggest because they don't have faith they'll be heard or see them. Even if they get a lot of things they want funny enough


----------



## Tobiyama

This seems like gossip to me. Not the first time a story has come out about the network being unhappy. And there’s never any meaningful changes when USA network is supposedly unhappy.

But WWE absolutely deserved bad ratings for Monday. It was a horrible show. And not a single program on Raw is working at the moment. No good content.


----------



## Seafort

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> While their demo may be in a good place the fact is they've stayed in the exact same position for over a year now between 700k-900k. They've lost over half their viewership from their first episode. Unless they do something major and revolutionary for wrestling they'll never be bigger than what they are now.


In a (virtually) no live audience environment, the fact that they have not lost viewers is a win. 

I wouldn’t sweat their loss from week 1, but only recognize it as their likely ceiling without bringing in vast amounts of new casual fans. RAW’s theoretical ceiling is the number they drew for their anniversary show recently.


----------



## Seafort

TerraRising said:


> Have Rey gouge out Seth's eyeballs. There, Hispanic market saves WWE, not unlike how Bret's European appeal kept them afloat in the 1990s.


Financially, they are in outstanding shape right now. Baring unionization or giving Brock a new ludicrous deal, it looks like they are going to be pulling in $60M per quarter for the next four years.

Long term where they run into trouble is if they cannot get the same deals in 2024...or if the only deals that they are offered are acquisition terms.


----------



## Seafort

the_flock said:


> Talksport, everyone in the UK knows they are a really bad source, they literally make anything up.
> 
> Either way, WWE will have Becky, Brock and Rhonda back next year which will boost ratings, then if they can tie Punk down, happy days.


Becky: Just had a child. Theoretically she can return shortly, but why? 

Brock: Suppose his price is $25M per year? Yes, you can still easily sign him, but that has a spillover effect on Drew, Randy, and Roman when their contracts become due

Rhonda: Most likely time return, but then again does she want to?


----------



## Seafort

Cult03 said:


> I always enjoy seeing these threads and never seeing people say what would make it better. Say what you want about the AEW section but at least the people who are negative about it say what would improve it.
> 
> I have to ask, what is the difference between WWE and AEW's products that makes one must see viewing and the other "dying"? To me they're both really fucking similar.


I could spend pages detailing what could be done at a macro level or for a specific character. There is so much that could be done - for a creative individual who like wrestling it’s the ultimate sandbox to play in.

As to what is different between AEW and WWE, lets presume Darby Allin, Ricky Starks, Sammy Guevara, and Orange Cassidy had never wrestled for Khan and instead joined WWE. Here’s how each would be after a year in WWE, and how they would be named:

Darby: Young, thin guy (no face paint) who doesn’t talk and gets squashed
Guevara: Young good looking Latino wrestler who barely gets scripted interview time and chases after the 24/7 title. Teams with Ricochet occasionally
Starks: Young wrestler who gives boring scripted interviews who is stuck in NXT
Cassidy: No signs of his Slacker character, he’s languishing in NXT

Meanwhile in AEW, they have taken these blank slate characters - which WWE would happily leave as blank slates as they do not seem able to develop more than two or three characters a year - and made viable, attention drawing future stars:

Allin: Enigmatic, punk wrestler with vibes of a modern Sting. My wife - definition of a casual viewer - finds him cool
Guevara - Outstanding heel character with great upside
Ricky Starks: Star in the making. Each week he is reminding me more and more of 1997 heel Rock
Orange Cassidy: Now a cult star with his slacker character, and I only hope that it one stage towards revealing that he’s this way because he is such a good wrestler that he literally has to wrestler in slacker fashion (I.e. one arm tied behind his back) to make it interesting for himself.

Has AEW had misfires? Absolutely, and a few now. But their strongest ability has been to take blank slates and make them into viable characters.


----------



## Geeee

I'm gonna need like 6 months of positive feedback before I come back to this boring show


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> I always enjoy seeing these threads and never seeing people say what would make it better. Say what you want about the AEW section but at least the people who are negative about it say what would improve it.
> 
> I have to ask, what is the difference between WWE and AEW's products that makes one must see viewing and the other "dying"? To me they're both really fucking similar.


What are you even talking about? 

Dynamite could get strong ratings (like they have already, especially for the past couple of weeks) and you'd STILL have folks like you suggesting their negative ideas that would "improve" the show. 

For the record, it's pretty obvious that you don't visit the General WWE section often enough considering the fact that there's multiple threads in which people made several suggestions of what can make the WWE product better.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If people on here gave their ideas it would be along the lines of pushing guys like Ricochet, Ali and Kevin Owens to the moon, and making the show primarily based around workrate (Which it already is to an extent).


If it were up to people like you, then you'd just remove the wrestling aspect altogether since you're ungrateful with that department.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> If it were up to people like you, then you'd just remove the wrestling aspect altogether since you're ungrateful with that department.


I've got no issue with guys that can wrestle, as long as they you know, can talk on the mic, have a good character and look like a real superstar along with it, you have to have the full package


----------



## YamchaRocks

Vince must have been calling Seth, Goldberg and Rock to come back all week long


----------



## JerryMark

InexorableJourney said:


> Maybe USA should re-air silk stalkings, and just have RAW air in a itty bitty window at the bottom of the screen.


nice throwback.

just stick raw on up all night at 2-5am.


----------



## NapperX

IpostHIGH said:


> Oh shut up. Don't blame Triple H for this crap.
> 
> Vince is the one who makes 300 pounds monsters dance in lingerie with midgets.
> 
> Triple H is the one who I affiliate with adult content. Whenever i think of an adult content, I think of Triple H.


You clearly don't remember that episode of Raw where HHH said the following: 




You have no idea what happens in other companies when execs start making fun of their customers. We're not talking about only one pissed off customer, we are talking about millions and here you have Steph and HHH making fun of everyone. 

HHH is the one who demanded that the Bella/Steph feud be altered and not include Steph's storyline mugshot photo in fear of that photo being used against her when she runs for office, but claimed it was because he feared his daughters would be bullied at school over it, literally throwing his daughters into a fire of an excuse so you can claim he is a proponent of adult content while using his kids as an excuse?. Seems kind of creepy to me.

Figure that one out for a second and then continue telling people to shut up, let us know how it goes for you. When you can't train your staff, and you hate your customer, audience, clientele, etc then it is time for you to find a new career. Basically, you are not fit for the job and millions see that. If you can't step up then step down.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Please God these ratings need to drop lower so Vince and Triple H get the fucking message that the show outside of Wyatt/Orton fucking sucks.


----------



## Piper's Pit

Qudhufo said:


> Whether their TV show is G rated or TV-14 it doesn’t matter at this point.
> 
> Their whole presentation of pro wrestling is absolutely trash. To think that it has gotten even more sports entertainment in the last few years is fucking depressing, but this is what the *"wrestling should be silly and fun ”* crowd asked for lol.
> 
> The fake bad comedy bs, flippy boring indy dudes who don’t even know a simple grappling move, cinematic matches etc...


Haha, excellent post.

This is my first post or visit to this forum in 2 years and it's weird reading this thread and seeing the same old tired arguments and opinions - Vince needs to go, no good characters, need better writers etc. etc.
It's like a f'n time warp in here, I could take another 2 year break, come back and it would still be the same old nonsense.

Professional Wrestling Is Dead
It died in 1996 when the nWo made it cool to be a heel and when both Vince and Eric decided that in order to compete with each other they would book their weekly shows on the fly and do away with long term planning, heels/faces and jobber/squash matches to properly build people and make matches between established names feel special.
After an intense but short lived boom between 1997 and 2000 the business has been on an initially gradual but ever quickening descent into oblivion. The MNW/Attitude Era was the equivalent of giving a terminally ill patient an injection of adrenaline, morphine and cocaine - for a short while they'll be full of energy and feel like their old self again but they're still terminally ill.
You could write a long book about why wrestling died and where it all went wrong but it died in 1996.

What is now called wrestling is merely the reanimated corpse of a once great sport. 
I've accepted it and moved on, I occasionally hope that there will be a return to the glory days of the Golden Age (1985-92) or the territories but of course that's unrealistic, delusion that can not and never will happen for so, so many reasons, some of those reasons aren't even those within the sport's fault.
So to those who still watch WWE but mostly hate it and come on here to complain - stop wasting your time and energy and move on, there are so many better ways to spend your free time.


----------



## Qudhufo

Piper's Pit said:


> Haha, excellent post.
> 
> This is my first post or visit to this forum in 2 years and it's weird reading this thread and seeing the same old tired arguments and opinions - Vince needs to go, no good characters, need better writers etc. etc.
> It's like a f'n time warp in here, I could take another 2 year break, come back and it would still be the same old nonsense.
> 
> Professional Wrestling Is Dead
> It died in 1996 when the nWo made it cool to be a heel and when both Vince and Eric decided that in order to compete with each other they would book their weekly shows on the fly and do away with long term planning, heels/faces and jobber/squash matches to properly build people and make matches between established names feel special.
> After an intense but short lived boom between 1997 and 2000 the business has been on an initially gradual but ever quickening descent into oblivion. The MNW/Attitude Era was the equivalent of giving a terminally ill patient an injection of adrenaline, morphine and cocaine - for a short while they'll be full of energy and feel like their old self again but they're still terminally ill.
> You could write a long book about why wrestling died and where it all went wrong but it died in 1996.
> 
> What is now called wrestling is merely the reanimated corpse of a once great sport.
> I've accepted it and moved on, I occasionally hope that there will be a return to the glory days of the Golden Age (1985-92) or the territories but of course that's unrealistic, delusion that can not and never will happen for so, so many reasons, some of those reasons aren't even those within the sport's fault.
> So to those who still watch WWE but mostly hate it and come on here to complain - stop wasting your time and energy and move on, there are so many better ways to spend your free time.


Man your post was even better than mine lol, your post was beautifully written.


----------



## ClintDagger

To me there’s nothing they can do. It’s like a horrible football team with no talent, no good coaching, and a clueless front office. If you had the talent you could possibly overcome #2 and #3 to some extent but in WWE’s case there just aren’t any options. They are getting by solely on past accomplishments and that can’t last forever.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.841M [13th] | 0.530D [5th]
V2 | D2: 1.701M [16th] | 0.550D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.531M [21st] | 0.510D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.691M | 0.530D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.140M | - 7.60% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 3.77% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.170M | - 9.99% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.27% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.310M | - 16.84% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.77% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.164M | + 10.74% ]
[ + 0.120D | + 29.27% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.144M | - 7.85% ]
[ + 0.007D | + 1.34% ]*


----------



## RapShepard

So they went up some, good on them


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> So they went up some, good on them


Yep, 17% viewership and 29% in demo (Meltzer will be pleased with that one).

And this thread goes back to being dead again until the next record low viewership which could be next week as its the holiday episode....


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Yep, 17% viewership and 29% in demo (Meltzer will be pleased with that one).
> 
> And this thread goes back to being dead again until the next record low viewership which could be next week as its the holiday episode....


I wonder how Meltzer and Alvarez will discuss the ratings this week lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I wonder how Meltzer and Alvarez will discuss the ratings this week lol


They will find probably find a category AEW beat them 2weeks ago with the all Sting hype (Numbers they will likely never see again until another major star joins) and use it as a reason why this increase is terrible.


----------



## MrMeeseeks

RapShepard said:


> So they went up some, good on them


probably people tuning in to see if anything changed


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> They will find probably find a category AEW beat them 2weeks ago with the all Sting hype (Numbers they will likely never see again until another major star joins) and use it as a reason why this increase is terrible.


It'll be something lol



MrMeeseeks said:


> probably people tuning in to see if anything changed


Anything changed?


----------



## thenglishpatriot

RapShepard said:


> So they went up some, good on them


why good? it deserves to sink lower its fucking garbage


----------



## RapShepard

thenglishpatriot said:


> why good? it deserves to sink lower its fucking garbage


I disagree I enjoy WWE. I like what's going on with The Hurt Business, Drew and a possible Sheamus feud, and Orton and The Fiend.


----------



## thenglishpatriot

RapShepard said:


> I disagree I enjoy WWE. I like what's going on with The Hurt Business, Drew and a possible Sheamus feud, and Orton and The Fiend.


i agree with 2/3 but the filler in between makes it so boring. 3 hours is too long


----------



## RapShepard

thenglishpatriot said:


> i agree with 2/3 but the filler in between makes it so boring. 3 hours is too long


That's why I'm a user of the remote control. Unless I'm actively in a live thread here I turn from segment I don't enjoy or don't anticipate enjoying.


----------



## the_hound

i like when people get upset


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard said:


> I wonder how Meltzer and Alvarez will discuss the ratings this week lol





Dark Emperor said:


> They will find probably find a category AEW beat them 2weeks ago with the all Sting hype (Numbers they will likely never see again until another major star joins) and use it as a reason why this increase is terrible.


You can always tell the people who get all their Meltzer/Alvarez news on here and have never listened to a minute of them talking about ratings on their podcast. It's cute.


----------



## RapShepard

CovidFan said:


> You can always tell the people who get all their Meltzer/Alvarez news on here and have never listened to a minute of them talking about ratings on their podcast. It's cute.


Nah I've listened to the free stuff on YouTube and saying Alvarez isn't a fuck them guy would be a stretch. He's to WWE what Cornette is to AEW


----------



## OwenSES

Burning a man to death = ratings.


----------



## .christopher.

thenglishpatriot said:


> why good? it deserves to sink lower its fucking garbage


This is just a blip. It'll keep sinking.

This time next year they'll be in AEW's boat of trying to even reach a million.


----------



## fabi1982

.christopher. said:


> This is just a blip. It'll keep sinking.
> 
> This time next year they'll be in AEW's boat of trying to even reach a million.


And AEW will be on half a million.


----------



## xio4up

rather watch ufc. Then wwe woman wrestling


----------



## WWEfan4eva

So what did Raw do yesterday in ratings?


----------



## Ace

WWEfan4eva said:


> So what did Raw do yesterday in ratings?


 Raw's so shit no one even cares about the ratings anymore.


----------



## Sidloo

WWEfan4eva said:


> So what did Raw do yesterday in ratings?











WWE Raw ratings up for final episode of 2020


This week’s edition of WWE Monday Night Raw saw an increase in viewership from last Monday’s episode. According to Showbuzz Daily, the episode drew an average




wrestlingnews.co






The 18-49 demos saw hour one had 0.56 then 0.52 in hour two, and 0.47 in hour three. Here is the hourly viewership breakdown:

Hour 1 (8 pm): 1.886 million – last week: 1.841
Hour 2 (9 pm): 1.783 million – last week: 1.701
Hour 3 (10 pm): 1.638 million – last week: 1.531


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.886M [14th] | 0.560D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.783M [17th] | 0.520D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.638M [22nd] | 0.470D [6th]

3V | 3D: 1.769M | 0.517D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.103M | - 5.46% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.14% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.145M | - 8.13% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 9.62% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.248M | - 13.15% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 16.07% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.078M | + 4.61% ]
[ - 0.013D | - 2.45% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.670M | - 27.47% ]
[ - 0.250D | - 32.59% ]*


----------



## Sidloo

good raw is improving


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That year over year drop though seems bigger than normal. Did they have some special show this time last year?


----------



## WWEfan4eva

I think people just want to see there old favorites on TV

The Ratings going to go back to normal after RAW Legends Night


----------



## llj

Sidloo said:


> good raw is improving


It's the same average they've been getting for the last 4 months. The bad rating the other week was definitely bad, but 1.7 is the average they had been pulling most weeks since SummerSlam anyway. It isn't really improving, it's just getting back to their normal average after one REALLY bad week.


----------



## xio4up

1.3 - 1.5 after mania


----------



## Sidloo

lol raw rating is hitting the ball out of ground


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.197M [19th] | 0.700D [1st]
V2 | D2: 2.150M [20th] | 0.660D [3rd]
V3 | D3: 2.036M [22nd] | 0.680D [2nd]

3V | 3D: 2.128M | 0.680D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.047M | - 2.14% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 5.71% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.114M | - 5.30% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 3.03% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.161M | - 7.33% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.86% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.359M | + 20.29% ]
[ + 0.163D | + 31.53% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.257M | - 10.78% ]
[ - 0.063D | - 8.48% ]*


----------



## Sidloo

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I can't believe they flew these retired people out just to have them sit backstage while they put on the same shitty show they've been airing since the end of last summer. This is an incredibly stupid thing to do with all time low ratings. RAW has just convinced all the fans they've lost to never tune in again.*





redban said:


> I didn't watch. I'm glad I'm not helping them get out of their low-ratings rut.





The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Every legend show they've done in recent years was to have a bunch of them fly out and do relatively nothing other than appear for like 30 seconds in a backstage segment. They just want to pop a small rating to make things not seem so bad, when in reality the booking around everything is still pretty shit overall.
> 
> Hope Lee/Drew saves it.





tommo010 said:


> My favorite part was the follow up to the "epic cliffhanger" we got left with last week.......................oh wait





Eva MaRIHyse said:


> This was the perfect indicator that this company is creatively bankrupt and has no idea how to stop losing fans.
> 
> They run a Legends Night where nothing is even achieved from it.
> 
> And its always awkward as hell when they trot these Legends out to put over what passes for a 'Star' thesedays. It was cringe when they had DX put over Rollins who just looked massively out of place and like he didn't belong. And it was cringe seeing Hogan act like the Scottish Roman Reigns cosplay is a Star. Hogan was a big deal when Pro Wrestling was a big deal and about larger than life characters telling stories. Drews a nobody in a dead Era full of spot monkeys and is the face of record low ratings.
> 
> Goldberg dropping Drew like a sack of shit was a welcome site. Even 50 year old Goldberg is so much better than Drew.
> 
> Its crazy to think that the same company that put out this train wreck of a show, and continues to put out this train wreck every week is also behind the current Roman Reigns character and story.





OldSchoolRocks said:


> I have to agree. I do not see the point in Legends night if all it is is a few seconds backstage gathering pointless segments, it felt a bit blink and you miss it.
> The first RAW of 2021 was the same tired formula by a stubborn stale company that is creatively bankrupt. The only thing of any value was McIntyre vs Lee which they gave away on RAW and yet decide to present McIntyre vs Goldberg in another blink and you miss it spear vs claymore done and dusted at the Rumble.
> 
> I do not see any signs of change yet not that I was expecting much. We should all be wise to false promises of change by WWE by now.
> Oh well lets see how far the ratings drop this year.





HBK Styles Ospreay said:


> Yeah I guess there aren't many 'basement dwellers' in India, since the "lower classes" are kept as slaves


But you guys said the rating will fall shit you guys were right too bad the Legend night was a epic failure WWE should hire u all booking expert


----------



## postmoderno

Is it any wonder why the people who write and produce this show have no respect for their audience? They don't deserve any. Have the same old incoherent, boring, stupid show, but the ratings are (relatively) through the roof because they trotted out some broken down old fucks.

wrestling fans are mostly fucking idiots and deserve to be treated as such.


----------



## HugoCortez

@45banshee

*Highest ratings since 1957. And almost no drop. Clearly last RAW's show was of a superior quality to anything wwe has put out the past year and got rewarded for it.

Wonder if Vince was involved at all last night because it felt like they actually had a pulse over what the fans and the audience want.*


----------



## Frost99

Welp #Oldberg #HerniaHogan & #RicforgottheSPOT all popped a rating 2.1 as to the avg 1.6, and what happened when #Oldberg popped a rating on SD last year? Well under #WWELogic you better get ready for a Goldberg/Regins Unification match @ WM......


----------



## Runaway

Wow. I really don't get these ratings defenders. Jumping in these threads, desperately trying to pretend Raw is of any relevance. What's in it for you? Was WWE really that important to your childhood?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 2.197M [19th] | 0.700D [1st]
> V2 | D2: 2.150M [20th] | 0.660D [3rd]
> V3 | D3: 2.036M [22nd] | 0.680D [2nd]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 2.128M | 0.680D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.047M | - 2.14% ]
> [ - 0.040D | - 5.71% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.114M | - 5.30% ]
> [ + 0.020D | + 3.03% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.161M | - 7.33% ]
> [ - 0.020D | - 2.86% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ + 0.359M | + 20.29% ]
> [ + 0.163D | + 31.53% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.257M | - 10.78% ]
> [ - 0.063D | - 8.48% ]*


*Highest viewership since 1st PC RAW (3/16).
Highest demo since WM 36 RAW (04/06).*


----------



## HugoCortez

Runaway said:


> Wow. I really don't get these ratings defenders. Jumping in these threads, desperately trying to pretend Raw is of any relevance. What's in it for you? Was WWE really that important to your childhood?


My post was tongue in cheek poking fans at when people went overexcited over SD doing a good rating due to a lead in, attributing it to the show's superior quality, only for the next episode to get a very low one despite people praising it.

Now people were creating a thread shitting on last RAW and saying it was crp to SD and it reflected in the ratings, only for it to get the best ones since the post Summerslam one.

They basically hyped up legends.night and kept peoe tuning in via not doing anything of relevance and giving them hope that something big may happen if they kept watching.


----------



## RT1981

just proves fans care more about the legends than today stars so expect to see more partimers in the future until the stars of today can prove they can actally draw on there own.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sidloo said:


> But you guys said the rating will fall shit you guys were right too bad the Legend night was a epic failure WWE should hire u all booking expert


*I said after watching this show, they've shown us there's no reason to come back. Obviously the rating was higher because we thought it would be better than the garbage that they usually show us. Try to get some kind of context clues before you come at me. Keep that same energy when it drops again next week.*


----------



## Darren Criss

They got what they wanted..


----------



## The XL 2

The legends, even when they do nothing, are still way more over than this current crop of "talent"


----------



## Sidloo

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I said after watching this show, they've shown us there's no reason to come back. Obviously the rating was higher because we thought it would be better than the garbage that they usually show us. Try to get some kind of context clues before you come at me. Keep that same energy when it drops again next week.*


Aren't u tired after three weeks you kept on speaking the same thing I mean you been saying this for DEC 15, 2020 the rating will fall . Also you watch raw because u don't like the current booking so stop watching raw then only watch smackdown . Unless you watch it because u like it which just shit on it .I could be wrong


----------



## Sidloo

RT1981 said:


> can actally draw on there own.


 kieth lee vs drew


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number for Raw nowadays, but not good as a whole considering still down a decent bit year over year. Still with Goldberg back, I wouldn’t be shocked if next week’s first hour does around these numbers - 2.0-2.2 mil. It may even do better if he actually shows up on the show (no idea if he’s advertised or not).

I suppose it is something that this first Raw of year beat first SD of year, all 3 hours, despite being on cable vs. SD on network. Though different weeks, SD was on New Year’s and Raw had the legends night thing, so it’s not the wildest thing. Still a bit surprising though.


----------



## Runaway

HugoCortez said:


> My post was tongue in cheek poking fans at when people went overexcited over SD doing a good rating due to a lead in, attributing it to the show's superior quality, only for the next episode to get a very low one despite people praising it.
> 
> Now people were creating a thread shitting on last RAW and saying it was crp to SD and it reflected in the ratings, only for it to get the best ones since the post Summerslam one.
> 
> They basically hyped up legends.night and kept peoe tuning in via not doing anything of relevance and giving them hope that something big may happen if they kept watching.


I wasn't referencing you. It was the guy going mental with the quotes two posts above yours I had in mind. And the general pattern of this board.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sidloo said:


> Aren't u tired after three weeks you kept on speaking the same thing I mean you been saying this for DEC 15, 2020 the rating will fall . Also you watch raw because u don't like the current booking so stop watching raw then only watch smackdown . Unless you watch it because u like it which just shit on it .I could be wrong


*I watched more than an hour of RAW for the first time since Lana was heavily featured. I only go out of my way to watch Alexa Bliss segments because there's no way in hell I'm sitting through 3 hours of this trash. *


----------



## Dr. Middy

Sidloo said:


> But you guys said the rating will fall shit you guys were right too bad the Legend night was a epic failure WWE should hire u all booking expert


Never said I was an expert, hell I'd have a hell of a time trying to juggle around 3 hours of storylines. But I could come up with better ideas I think at least.

Realistically though, what drew these people to stay? Every legend appearance was forgettable, the only one who is doing anything is a mid 50s Goldberg, and he'll only be around a few weeks. 

Raw is just so poorly booked which is why they even needed to do a legends show to do a ratings prop up. They have another show in Smackdown that has been consistently good for awhile now, so there is no excuse.


----------



## The XL 2

What does it say about Drew and these other jabronis when hundreds of thousands of additional people would rather watch ancient Hogan and Goldberg show up and do nothing?


----------



## Balor fan

The XL 2 said:


> What does it say about Drew and these other jabronis when hundreds of thousands of additional people would rather watch ancient Hogan and Goldberg show up and do nothing?


3rd hour did 2.15 million due to Drew's championship match. Drew is a big draw confirmed.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

The Rating will go back to normal next week


----------



## Y.2.J

Legends pop in rating. Well done. But its a bandaid.
They need to think of long-term.

RAW is pillaged...it doesn't have enough talent to consistently draw 2M+.
They're losing the wednesday war. Just leave NXT, it had its loyal fanbase that will continue to watch just because. Pull most of the stars from NXT and bring them back to RAW/SD but primarily to RAW. They could use Finn, Adam Cole, etc. There's not enough interesting guys and they have 3 hours to fill. SD is fine the way it is IMO.


----------



## Charzhino

Lets see how many stick around next week. That is the real reflection of how the previous weeks show performed.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Balor fan said:


> 3rd hour did 2.15 million due to Drew's championship match. Drew is a big draw confirmed.



So all of his title matches that did 1.6s dont count? Or people tuned into see the legends and just stuck around with no football to change the channel too?



Interesting.


----------



## Not Lying

This is a pathetic number. They still can beat an average SD show rating despite all the legends and hype surrounding it.



RainmakerV2 said:


> So all of his title matches that did 1.6s dont count? Or people tuned into see the legends and just stuck around with no football to change the channel too?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.


Well people judge someone by their peak. You don't see people calling Goldberg out for failing to draw in 2003 with HHH, or Hogan when he killed WCW. You only look at their peak.


----------



## DaSlacker

It's weird seeing 2.1 million viewers touted as a success. 2.5 million viewers down on what Raw 25 pulled just two years ago. That's not even a knock on WWE - it's largely the way the cable audience has dropped.

Looks like 80's and 90's household names Hogan, Flair and Goldberg, like Sting in AEW, can draw 200,000 viewers and nostalgia can draw 200,000 too.


----------



## 45banshee

Smackdown is still the better show. Why? Cause they don't do all these "legend" shows and I'm quite happy about that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Balor fan said:


> 3rd hour did 2.15 million due to Drew's championship match. Drew is a big draw confirmed.


*Lol no. Cardi B started tweeting about WWE during the third hour, which caused a ton of her fans to tune in, because that was more exciting than anything going on during the show. Drew spent NINE months tanking ratings with his segments, is the reason they had to bring back legends in the first place, and you still have the nerve to call him a draw. That's just embarrassing.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They learned from putting Miz in the main-event segments. Don't do that anymore, unless you want lowest rated 3rd hours of all time.


----------



## Y.2.J

Look at the disparity between rosters, now imagine why RAW is doing so poor in ratings. SD is stacked.

RAW: Drew, Orton, AJ, Fiend, Braun (injured?), Lashley, Riddle, Jeff Hardy, Charlotte, Elias, Miz/Morrison, New Day, Ricochet, Keith Lee, Bliss Asuka

SD: Roman Reigns, Rollins, Daniel Bryan, Kevin Owens, Big E, Sami Zayn, Corbin, Ziggle, Roode, Aleister, Shinsuke, Cesaro, Mysterios, Street Profits, Sasha, Bayley, Carmella, 

I don't know...to me SD is heavily stacked with strong talent throughout especially for a 2-hour show. Then you have RAW on 3 hours, with not nearly as much depth IMO. WWE can't afford to have Reigns and Rollins on the same show. They're too good to not be spread around.


----------



## The XL 2

Balor fan said:


> 3rd hour did 2.15 million due to Drew's championship match. Drew is a big draw confirmed.


What will the excuse be when 4-600K don't watch Drew next Monday?


----------



## ThirdMan

SD has many of the same shortcomings in booking that RAW has. Repeating the same matches ad nauseum, 50/50 booking, mid-card and women's champions constantly being beaten in non-title matches, constant distraction/roll-up finishes, people getting title matches without earning them (beat down/insult the champ, get a title match), etc. Promos that make the "faces" seem more like shallow asshole heels (Street Profits this past week, Sasha regularly). Even Roman vs KO, which is solid from a character standpoint, keeps repeating the same matches (Jey vs KO) and scenarios (KO constantly being beaten down to end the show). 

But it's two hours, and on a major network, so it will virtually always draw higher ratings than RAW. But even when it pops a bigger rating due to a big lead-in (NFL football), and delivers a really good show, top-to-bottom (as the Christmas show was), it recedes back to its typical ratings the following week. As will RAW after this week, regardless of the quality of the individual episode (which may end up being better than the Legends Night ep).

And stans will continue to argue on behalf of the show that their favourite happens to appear on. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Runaway

Smackdown is overrated and shares many of Raw's problems but it's still a much better show.

2 Hours is a big reason obviously. But the roster is better. 'Fresher' even. Raw's Orton, Miz, Morrison, Kofi, Shelton etc get a ton of TV time and have been around forever. Smackdown has better talkers - Bryan, Owens, Zayn and Roman all can talk you into the building. Raw only has Drew and MVP and one of them is basically a manager. Singles Big E is fresh whereas Woods/Kofi are stale beyond belief. Sasha is more interesting as champion than Asuka and Charlotte. Otis and Gable are more fun than R-truth. Retribution fucking stink. Sonya rules. And obviously, Roman is the best thing in the company and the only star they have.

I feel sorry for Drew. Ostensibly he's doing a great job but he's sinking in a sea of shit. He's also a kind of 'folk hero' type champion that dies without a crowd behind him.


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Lol no. Cardi B started tweeting about WWE during the second hour, which caused a ton of her fans to tune in, because that was more exciting than anything going on during the show. Drew spent NINE months tanking ratings with his segments, is the reason they had to bring back legends in the first place, and you still have the nerve to call him a draw. That's just embarrassing.*


Imagine being delusional enough to blame Drew McIntyre (or any other individual talent) for the low ratings IN 2021 (even though there’s several years of evidence that Raw has gradually been losing viewers no matter which wrestlers they decide to push; ) but yet, you’ll just sit there and pretend like the ratings will be any different with anybody else as the world champion.

What a fucking joke of a take right there.


----------



## Balor fan

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Lol no. Cardi B started tweeting about WWE during the second hour, which caused a ton of her fans to tune in, because that was more exciting than anything going on during the show. Drew spent NINE months tanking ratings with his segments, is the reason they had to bring back legends in the first place, and you still have the nerve to call him a draw. That's just embarrassing.*


lol cardi b did nothing. Nor did ton of fans tune in. Like u pointed out she tweeted during 2nd hour which was the lowest rated. Ratings went up during 3rd hour because people tuned in to see Drew vs Lee. As simple as that. Nice try though.


----------



## Balor fan

.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Balor fan said:


> lol cardi b did nothing. Nor did ton of fans tune in. Like u pointed out she tweeted during 2nd hour which was the lowest rated. Ratings went up during 3rd hour because people tuned in to see Drew vs Lee. As simple as that.


*I meant third hour:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346299008638046208
So yeah, thanks for proving my point. Like I said, Drew spent NINE MONTHS tanking ratings. Nobody tuned in to see him.*


----------



## ThirdMan

> Smackdown has better talkers - Bryan, Owens, Zayn and Roman all can talk you into the building. Raw only has Drew and MVP and one of them is basically a manager.


Orton's been great with promos this past year, and New Day and Miz have always been confident on the stick (though I concede the "been around forever" point). And I don't think they're giving _any _of the women on either show, outside of perhaps Bayley, much to work with, character-wise. Everyone's stuck talking in buzzwords/catch-phrases, conveying little of substance.

I think SD has benefitted most from Heyman (who struggled the same as anyone else building a 3-hour show, as former executive director of RAW) being very hands-on with -- and focusing all of his attention on -- the Roman stuff, and Daniel Bryan having some measure of influence over the mid-card in the writers room. They seem to be giving Sami Zayn a fair amount of leeway with his promos as well. Vince also seems to be way more controlling with RAW, which is more liable to have last-minute rewrites.


----------



## Runaway

ThirdMan said:


> Orton's been great with promos this past year, and New Day and Miz have always been confident on the stick (though I concede the "been around forever" point). And I don't think they're giving _any _of the women on either show, outside of perhaps Bayley, much to work with, character-wise. Everyone's stuck talking in buzzwords/catch-phrases, conveying little of substance.


Yeah Orton's had a good year. Probably his best in terms of promos, although I think he's dropped off the last few months and he's still . . .Orton at the end of the day. I don't include New Day and Miz because their level is doing unsubstantial comedy to fill time.

I agree that none of the women are getting much to work with. I will keep beating the drum that they're dropping the ball with Nikki Cross, who is one of the best talkers they have. I'm hoping Sonya gets a real shot down the line. But even with Charlotte's return it still feels like Vince can't be bothered with the women.

I think you're right about the amount of creative leeway on Smackdown. Owens, Zany and Bryan have developed more trust than the majority of the roster.


----------



## Balor fan

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I meant third hour:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346299008638046208
> So yeah, thanks for proving my point. Like I said, Drew spent NINE MONTHS tanking ratings. Nobody tuned in to see him.*


The only point u proved is that u don't understand basic math. That tweet by her is liked by about 48 k people. 3K retweeted it. So about 51k max tuned in to wwe because of her. 

That doesn't explain how the third hour did so well compared to last week. Its because of drews match. Without it third hour would be 1.6 million or something.


----------



## OldSchoolRocks

Sidloo said:


> But you guys said the rating will fall shit you guys were right too bad the Legend night was a epic failure WWE should hire u all booking expert


It was a nostalgia advertised show, they always draw higher but you can guarantee it will be downhill again because once again WWE did nothing to instill faith to viewers that things are going to improve with that episode. McIntyre vs Lee was the only fresh thing on the show.


----------



## validreasoning

Raw being #1-3 on cable 28 years after it's debut is terrific achievement.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Goldberg = Draw.

Put the belt on him


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Goldberg = Draw.
> 
> Put the belt on him


I’m betting that Drew McIntyre beats (or even squashes) Goldberg at the Royal Rumble.


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> I’m betting that Drew McIntyre beats (or even squashes) Goldberg at the Royal Rumble.


as he should Goldberg is one legend who don't draw shit Drew should kick him in the face and send him back to the retirement home.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> I’m betting that Drew McIntyre beats (or even squashes) Goldberg at the Royal Rumble.


He probably will, I still want Goldberg to win.


----------



## ThirdMan

DammitChrist said:


> I’m betting that Drew McIntyre beats (or even squashes) Goldberg at the Royal Rumble.


I think they're definitely playing on viewers' paranoia about their usage of Goldberg, especially after last year with The Fiend. But in the cases of Kevin Owens, The Fiend, and Brock, he was beating heel champions, with Goldberg (in his mind) being "the conquering hero". He had no issue with putting over a babyface Strowman at WrestleMania, and I think he'll do the same with Drew here.

He's under contract for 2 matches a year, and we were all suspecting the first match would be at Mania 37 (with Roman), which most people definitely weren't wanting. If he puts over Drew in a short match at the Rumble and isn't used again until significantly later in the year, it's fine. The two Rumble matches are the primary selling-point of the PPV, and if they don't want the event to go on too long, a short world title match fits the bill just fine (because we know Roman vs KO will go fairly long). Have Drew kick out at one on a few spears, and heck, even have him kick out of a Jackhammer. Then hit him with a Claymore or two, and beat him.

(They should definitely rehearse the Jackhammer ahead of time, though, because we don't need any more flimsy-looking suplexes. Heh.)


----------



## ClintDagger

validreasoning said:


> Raw being #1-3 on cable 28 years after it's debut is terrific achievement.


If you look at it from a total viewers standpoint it’s either just barely in or right outside of the top 20. Since WWE has terrible demos where they rank in total viewers is a more telling metric. It’s still impressive that they are still kicking after 30 years but to tout them as the cream of the crop is misleading.


----------



## chronoxiong

We supposed to be happy about a 2 million viewers ratings now? Thats sad. I am happy the WWE reached 2 million viewers for all 3 hours though. But I'm sure it will drop down to the 1.7 million range next week.


----------



## MrMeeseeks

chronoxiong said:


> We supposed to be happy about a 2 million viewers ratings now? Thats sad. I am happy the WWE reached 2 million viewers for all 3 hours though. But I'm sure it will drop down to the 1.7 million range next week.


i feel like 1.7 is being generous after that absolute flop of a shit show monday i think it'll go lower


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Nothing surprising



It's the night of legends


----------



## Zappers

Imagine the ratings if they didn't start the show with that awful segment.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> I’m betting that Drew McIntyre beats (or even squashes) Goldberg at the Royal Rumble.


Only thing that "scares me". Is that I think imo, they want to make Goldberg a Face. A "super hero", to go against Roman Reigns at WM. So it wouldn't shock me Goldberg gets the win.

But I want Drew to win, that's my preference.


----------



## shadows123

Zappers said:


> Only thing that "scares me". Is that I think imo, they want to make Goldberg a Face. A "super hero", to go against Roman Reigns at WM. So it wouldn't shock me Goldberg gets the win.
> 
> But I want Drew to win, that's my preference.


That is my bet too.. Vince's thinking for the most part of the past 5 years has been " How else can we make Roman look strong" ..so wouldnt be surprised if Goldberg wins to set up Roman match at Wrestlemania for his XXX coronation.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Legends were going to help draw higher rating but let's not pretend it was a good show. I watched the show for the first time since before Thanksgiving and I finished it in 50 minutes.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.024M [34th] | 0.620D [7th]
V2 | D2: 1.802M [38th] | 0.530D [12th]
V3 | D3: 1.632M [40th] | 0.510D [16th]

3V | 3D: 1.819M | 0.553D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.222M | - 10.97% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 14.52% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.170M | - 9.43% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.77% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.392M | - 19.37% ]
[ - 0.110D | - 17.74% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.309M | - 14.52% ]
[ - 0.127D | - 18.68% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.211M | - 10.39% ]
[ - 0.057D | - 9.34% ]*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Well, I guess better than when Miz was going on last.


----------



## Balor fan

If Drew was wrestling, the 3rd hour woulda done better than Boreton and HGH. Oh well..


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Almost 400k drop from hour 1 to hour 3.


----------



## Prosper

Balor fan said:


> If Drew was wrestling, the 3rd hour woulda done better than Boreton and HGH. Oh well..


Come on man Drew is not a draw. The product is so bad that even if Drew was booked perfectly it wouldn't matter for at least 4-5 months.


----------



## justin waynes

Balor fan said:


> If Drew was wrestling, the 3rd hour woulda done better than Boreton and HGH. Oh well..


Drew is great ,a badass too but I don't think Orton is boring ,is just that Alexa is so cringey in this storyline.


----------



## justin waynes

Raw needs Seth rollins ASAP. Only a matter of time till the ratings go back to 1.7-1.6 overall numbers.


----------



## chronoxiong

justin waynes said:


> Raw needs Seth rollins ASAP. Only a matter of time till the ratings go back to 1.7-1.6 overall numbers.


Um Rollins is on Smackdown now lol.


----------



## Randy Lahey

justin waynes said:


> Raw needs Seth rollins ASAP. Only a matter of time till the ratings go back to 1.7-1.6 overall numbers.


Seth Rollins is a geek. Geeks don’t draw.


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Seth Rollins is a geek. Geeks don’t draw.


Hey, sorry man;but I’m afraid that we’re the true geeks on here. That term doesn’t really describe any of the wrestlers on the roster


----------



## justin waynes

Randy Lahey said:


> Seth Rollins is a geek. Geeks don’t draw.


The current wrestlers are all geek but Seth is a far better than the rest


----------



## justin waynes

chronoxiong said:


> Um Rollins is on Smackdown now lol.


Who cares,when he comes back he goes to raw to save ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

NOBODY on the current roster will actually save the ratings atm.


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, sorry man;but I’m afraid that we’re the true geeks on here. That term doesn’t really describe any of the wrestlers on the roster


Absolutely. Anybody discussing pro wrestling on a forum in 2021 is definitely higher up on the geek scale . The entire genre had a last hurrah in 2000 and the prime time USA Network show now consists of a fat guy in clown mask being murdered as the company casually watches, with a cosplay Harley Quinn hamming it up. Meanwhile on TNT there is a cosplay nWo. The in ring style is Tekken meets SmackDown: Here Comes the Pain. To fewer viewers than the final episodes of WCW Thunder! 

A lot of the talent are on the geeky side too but their younger self masked it with athletic dedication.


----------



## xio4up

raw avg will be 1.3-1.5 after mania


----------



## Strike Force

justin waynes said:


> Raw needs Seth rollins ASAP. Only a matter of time till the ratings go back to 1.7-1.6 overall numbers.


Raw was pulling 4 million viewers when Rollins debuted in 2012. They've lost 55% of their viewers since Rollins has been a player. What a savior!


----------



## DammitChrist

I think that was supposed to be bait into (falsely) blaming the guy.

No (sane) "fan" can be this delusional like him.


----------



## justin waynes

Strike Force said:


> Raw was pulling 4 million viewers when Rollins debuted in 2012. They've lost 55% of their viewers since Rollins has been a player. What a savior!


 No they've lost those number since they've shoved boreman reings to the throats of the millions


----------



## Strike Force

justin waynes said:


> No they've lost those number since they've shoved boreman reings to the throats of the millions


It’s possible, just possible, that you might have missed the point of my post.


----------



## YamchaRocks

Seth is a proven TV draw.

Oh and ignore DC. It's been estalibished he isn't a genuine fan of Rollins, but a pathetic troll who claims to "support" Seth, but shits and fellow Rollins marks and downplays Seth at every ocassion. Gee, what a suprise he came out of his cave to put down a Rollins fan who thinks Seth Has a positive impact on viewership 🙄


----------



## Fearless Viper

?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.991M [28th] | 0.640D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.875M [32nd] | 0.610D [4th]
V3 | D3: 1.697M [34th] | 0.560D [5th]

3V | 3D: 1.854M | 0.603D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.116M | - 5.83% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 4.69% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.178M | - 9.49% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.20% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.294M | - 14.77% ]
[ - 0.080D | - 12.50% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.035M | + 1.92% ]
[ + 0.050D | + 9.04% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.526M | - 22.10% ]
[ - 0.230D | - 27.61% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Gillberg a draw confirmed.


----------



## RT1981

nice numbers.

Alexa Draws!


----------



## Zappers

I thought for sure the first hour (opening) would have done better.


----------



## TheGunnShow

No HHH=Ratings bump


----------



## ThirdMan

If they'd just include ratings from _India_ in the total, the show would've popped a big number! Alas, (geographical) South Asian viewers are only accounted for in YouTube numbers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

That's a terrible number. This was the first week that WWE had no competition from football.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> That's a terrible number. This was the first week that WWE had no competition from football.


WWE lost the post football season bump a few years ago. The crossover between WWE fans and real sports is now negligible.


----------



## Sidloo

RT1981 said:


> nice numbers.
> 
> Alexa Draws!


Alexa and that whole storyline is a draw but these booking experts who don't know shit are saying to finish that storyline now they look like dumbass


----------



## xio4up

next year when its at 900k - 1.2 1.3 will be a nice bump ritght ?


----------



## justin waynes

xio4up said:


> next year when its at 900k - 1.2 1.3 will be a nice bump ritght ?


As long as Vince doesn't care ,it doesn't matter but the IWC fans will keep complaining.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.904M [20th] | 0.570D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.838M [23rd] | 0.510D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.716M [26th] | 0.470D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.819M | 0.517D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.066M | - 3.47% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 10.53% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.122M | - 6.64% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.84% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.188M | - 9.87% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 17.54% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.035M | - 1.89% ]
[ - 0.086D | - 14.26% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.583M | - 24.27% ]
[ - 0.246D | - 32.24% ]*


----------



## BPG

terrible result, this is the last show before RR


----------



## RT1981

Alexa bringing in those numbers!!!


----------



## chronoxiong

Can't even crack 2 million viewers on the road to Wrestlemania. Yikes. Discussion is down for this show too on other message boards I regularly visit.


----------



## fabi1982

So they end up 1st, second and tied 3rd in the DEMO, but hey, they are doomed and will die soon...


----------



## ThirdMan

Do go-home shows usually pop a bigger number these days? Isn't is usually the episode _after _a PPV that does, for all companies? Like, if they don't do at least a 1.9 next week coming out of the Rumble, that would be a bigger concern for them, I would imagine.


----------



## DaSlacker

That's a good number by current standards. Next week will be up to 2 million. Then back down to 1.7. Mania will give them a boost, then the challenge will be staying above 1.5 million average in the spring. Apart from a Becky return and Drew turn they haven't got many strong hands left to play. Orton/Fiend/Alexa is about as bonkers and as far as they can push it.


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> So they end up 1st, second and tied 3rd in the DEMO, but hey, they are doomed and will die soon...


The fans of the other show were pretty much told that over the past several months too, but yet they also still seem to be around 

For the record, I don’t actually want Raw to die. I think they should struggle in ratings for a while (if they continue delivering mediocre shows) until it forces them to improve for the long-term.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> The fans of the other show were pretty much told that over the past several months too, but yet they also still seem to be around
> 
> For the record, I don’t actually want Raw to die. I think they should struggle in ratings for a while (if they continue delivering mediocre shows) until it forces them to improve for the long-term.


But the other show is not no.1 when there is no/the regular competition


----------



## RapShepard

I didn't know new episodes of Pawn Stars came on


----------



## justin waynes

RT1981 said:


> Alexa bringing in those numbers!!!


Are u alright? The numbers are hitting all time lows.what are you saying


----------



## justin waynes

Charlotte and Alexa are killing the ratings


----------



## justin waynes

DaSlacker said:


> That's a good number by current standards. Next week will be up to 2 million. Then back down to 1.7. Mania will give them a boost, then the challenge will be staying above 1.5 million average in the spring. Apart from a Becky return and Drew turn they haven't got many strong hands left to play. Orton/Fiend/Alexa is about as bonkers and as far as they can push it.


You think it will reach 2 million? Lol😂😂


----------



## RT1981

justin waynes said:


> Are u alright? The numbers are hitting all time lows.what are you saying


numbers look fine to me but keep hating like you guys always do well Vince just got a billion dollar deal and keeps getting richer.


----------



## DaSlacker

justin waynes said:


> You think it will reach 2 million? Lol😂😂


Think it will edge it, but it will be very close. The post Summerslam episode of Raw somehow managed to hit that number. Rumble is arguably a bigger deal or at least situated at a time of year when they can attract a few more viewers. Plus with the upcoming NBC/network deal and half way normal Mania - unless things change - I think they'll put in more effort in terms of bringing back legends, crossover episodes and booking several big matches.


----------



## Seafort

RT1981 said:


> numbers look fine to me but keep hating like you guys always do well Vince just got a billion dollar deal and keeps getting richer.


Indeed. Learn to love what you are being provided. For as the deal shows, as the profitability shows, as the revenue shows this, not some long forgotten period in the 80s or 90s that was the pinnacle of sports entertainment; rather, this is the true Golden Era. Because these deals are absolutely correlated with entertainment and popular culture capture.

Or it’s just that WWE is a world known brand that has particular value in providing cheap new content to a an aging, slowly dwindling fan base in a splintered entertainment market that is seeing rapid reconsolidation into a few streaming platforms.


----------



## SPCDRI

chronoxiong said:


> Can't even crack 2 million viewers on the road to Wrestlemania. Yikes. Discussion is down for this show too on other message boards I regularly visit.


That's a very small viewership decrease, but a decrease none the less, for the last RAW before a Big 4 PPV.
This show had a title match on the line that many people speculated could have been a title change for a long term champion (Alexa Bliss potentially becoming possessed by "The Fiend" and defeating Asuka for the RAW women's title).

I concur that there's almost no buzz for this Royal Rumble at all.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RT1981 said:


> numbers look fine to me


What's fine about losing 25% of your audience each year? Their total viewers were down 24%, demos down 32%.


----------



## fabi1982

Randy Lahey said:


> What's fine about losing 25% of your audience each year? Their total viewers were down 24%, demos down 32%.


Because they still are no.1 in the demo when NFL isnt on. And I thought Meltzer and AEW tought us that this is the only important thing? So whats bad about that?


----------



## RT1981

fabi1982 said:


> Because they still are no.1 in the demo when NFL isnt on. And I thought Meltzer and AEW tought us that this is the only important thing? So whats bad about that?


just a bunch of AEW marks in here crying like they do every week but in the end Vince always has the last laugh on them.


----------



## DammitChrist

RT1981 said:


> just a bunch of AEW marks in here crying like they do every week but in the end Vince always has the last laugh on them.


Are you really going to be a WWE apologist for VINCE of all people? :lol


----------



## RT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Are you really going to be a WWE apologist for VINCE of all people? :lol


its the truth Vince always wins like it or not the peacock deal is proof of that.A billion dollar deal after eveyone in this thread has been laughing at the ratings and said WWE is dead then Vince strikes a deal with peacock for a billion dollars sameting happen with the Fox deal as well noone saw that coming aswell .


----------



## xio4up

1.3 eoy


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.981M [13th] | 0.610D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.885M [16th] | 0.550D [3rd]
V3 | D3: 1.811M [20th] | 0.570D [2nd]

3V | 3D: 1.892M | 0.577D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.096M | - 4.85% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 9.84% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.074M | - 3.93% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 3.64% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.170M | - 8.58% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 6.56% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.073M | + 4.01% ]
[ + 0.060D | + 11.61% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.276M | - 12.73% ]
[ - 0.093D | - 13.88% ]*


----------



## justin waynes

Raw needs Seth rollings I guess. Alexa ,Charlotte are killing the ratings


----------



## Kentucky34

justin waynes said:


> Raw needs Seth rollings I guess. Alexa ,Charlotte are killing the ratings


Yeah the show's quality has also decreased since The Messiah left.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Nobody wants to sit through 3 hours of trash


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.821M [13th] | 0.540D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.735M [15th] | 0.480D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.589M [19th] | 0.440D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.715M | 0.487D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.086M | - 4.72% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 11.11% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.146M | - 8.41% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 8.33% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.232M | - 12.74% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 8.52% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.177M | - 9.36% ]
[ - 0.090D | - 15.60% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.622M | - 26.62% ]
[ - 0.310D | - 38.90% ]*


----------



## Klitschko

Oh jeez lol. They will be at 1.5 for all 3 hours after Wrestlemania season.


----------



## ShadowCounter

So Randy and Drew really lit the world on fire. 1.5 for the third hour. Wasn't there a 1.4 in there somewhere or is that the lowest yet?


----------



## Rankles75

No Bray, no Alexa, no likes...


----------



## MoxAsylum

You mean to tell me nobody wants to watch boringtyre or boreton? Color me shocked. 3 hours is absolutely torture


----------



## Frost99

Yeah, member when RAW ratings were like.....











Or even this










But now RAW's just fall into this.......


----------



## Charzhino

They get the worst ratings in hour 3 week after week and still can't figure out that they need to revert back to 2 hours and ditch short term losses for long term gains.


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> *You mean to tell me nobody wants to watch boringtyre or boreton?*Color me shocked. 3 hours is absolutely torture


Who are you even talking about? 😂 

None of those names even exist :mj4


----------



## SPCDRI

ShadowCounter said:


> So Randy and Drew really lit the world on fire. 1.5 for the third hour. Wasn't there a 1.4 in there somewhere or is that the lowest yet?


Not all the heat is on the wrestlers in the main event of RAW, but I think an Asuka/Sasha Banks for the women and Drew/Ziggler for the men in the third hour was in the 1.4s. The lowest non-wrestling segment I think was a contract signing with Styles I think in the 1.4s.


----------



## Kishido

Fucking scrap the 3rd hour. Is it so hard


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

It just occurred to me that we’ve had 3 hour Raws for almost 9 years now. Nearly a third of Raw’s life. That’s pretty crazy to me it’s been going on for that long.


----------



## xio4up

But but they thought bad bunny would bring in the casuals.


----------



## DaSlacker

#BadNewsSanta said:


> It just occurred to me that we’ve had 3 hour Raws for almost 9 years now. Nearly a third of Raw’s life. That’s pretty crazy to me it’s been going on for that long.


Damn. They kept it ok for the first couple of years. Then in mid 2014/2015 it became more and more meh. 

Sad to see what happened to Raw. A boring zombie show. Pretty much must see television from 1996 to 2000.


----------



## Seafort

Ratings may be down. Power has been out for over a day in a lot of Texas.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Seafort said:


> Ratings may be down. Power has been out for over a day in a lot of Texas.


or maybe they are down because raw is full of geeks


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> or maybe they are down because raw is full of geeks


We're not on Raw though, so nobody with a clue knows what you're even talking about.


----------



## Seafort

MoxAsylum said:


> or maybe they are down because raw is full of geeks


Or maybe both


----------



## SparrowPrime

Anyone know why it's taking so long to get the numbers for this week?


----------



## Dr. Jones

SparrowPrime said:


> Anyone know why it's taking so long to get the numbers for this week?


Its a holiday week. They're always delayed a day


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.935M [8th] | 0.600D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.806M [11th] | 0.570D [3rd]
V3 | D3: 1.690M [12th] | 0.530D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.810M | 0.567D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.129M | - 6.67% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.116M | - 6.42% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.02% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.245M | - 12.66% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 11.67% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.095M | + 5.54% ]
[ + 0.080D | + 16.43% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.627M | - 25.73% ]
[ - 0.223D | - 28.23% ]*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Actually pretty good this week, Especially the demo up 16%. Third hour still a killer though.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

even the big gauntlet match couldn't retain viewers for hr3 huh?


----------



## The Renegade

Been out of the ratings discussion for some years. Are these numbers good or bad considering the context?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Renegade said:


> Been out of the ratings discussion for some years. Are these numbers good or bad considering the context?


One year ago on 2/17/2020 they did a .79 rating with 2,437,333 viewers and this year on 2/15/2021 they did a .53 rating and 1,810,333 viewers, a drop of 28% & 26% respectively.

So, not good.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Expecting Miz and Lashley to have a decent impact on ratings this week. I'm sure viewers were more intrigued this week than your regular Raw show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.978M [9th] | 0.600D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.926M [11th] | 0.570D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.765M [16th] | 0.530D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.890M | 0.567D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.052M | - 2.63% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.161M | - 8.36% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.02% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.213M | - 10.77% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 11.67% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.080M | + 4.42% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.320M | - 14.48% ]
[ - 0.140D | - 19.80% ]*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Only up slightly 4.4% from last week. Still a positive, Miz didn't tank the ratings.

First hour was decent viewership and they seemed to retain all of that with the countdown to Miz decision with people expecting to see a title match.

Once they made the Braun v Lashley match and confirmed the title match is next week. People started to tune out as usual as 3rd hour is a drain.


----------



## Kentucky34

New champion and post PPV bump.

Still didn't draw over 2 million viewers.

The show is a joke since Seth left.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

1.89 and this is not freaking good at all. It's Wm season and they can't even get a 2 M viewers. Sad.


----------



## justin waynes

They can't hit 2 million? This is awful.lashley should be champion


----------



## Seafort

It’s a dead brand, or at least burnt out. Closest analogy is early 1999 WCW. The top stars are almost all older and have been around for many years. There is no up and coming midcard. They’ve booked themselves into a situation where only Orton, Fiend, Drew, Lashley, Seth, Roman, AJ, and Braun matter to any extent - and that’s a small roster.


----------



## Klitschko

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> 1.89 and this is not freaking good at all. It's Wm season and they can't even get a 2 M viewers. Sad.


I dont think this is a bad rating really, but with it being Wrestlemania season and by Summerslam their weekly average will probably be somewhere around 1.5 if I had to guess.


----------



## MIZizAwesome

Lol at the guy saying they would tank after miz becoming champ


----------



## yeahright2

Miz is a proven draw  (as much as anyone can be a draw today)


----------



## .christopher.

MIZizAwesome said:


> Lol at the guy saying they would tank after miz becoming champ


That's considered good? PPV and new champ buzz and can't even get 2m. This time next year they'll be below 1m. Things are looking good!


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

I love the double standards in regards to Miz.

Miz is expected to pop the ratings massively being a new Champion, but no other new Champions ever seem to have those expectations on them.

Miz as Champ is doing better ratings than Drew as Champ already though people...

We as an audience have just had to sit through a year of Super Drew and his amazing dullness. Miz isn't going to bring back all the fans Drews reign of boredom drove away in 1 day.


----------



## Kentucky34

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I love the double standards in regards to Miz.
> 
> Miz is expected to pop the ratings massively being a new Champion, but no other new Champions ever seem to have those expectations on them.
> 
> Miz as Champ is doing better ratings than Drew as Champ already though people...
> 
> We as an audience have just had to sit through a year of Super Drew and his amazing dullness. Miz isn't going to bring back all the fans Drews reign of boredom drove away in 1 day.


The RAW after Summerslam 2019 drew 2.73 million viewers.

This RAW drew under 1.89 million viewers.

Rollins > Miz.


----------



## DammitChrist

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I love the double standards in regards to Miz.
> 
> Miz is expected to pop the ratings massively being a new Champion, but no other new Champions ever seem to have those expectations on them.
> 
> Miz as Champ is doing better ratings than Drew as Champ already though people...
> 
> We as an audience have just had to sit through a year of Super Drew and his amazing dullness. Miz isn't going to bring back all the fans Drews reign of boredom drove away in 1 day.


It's 2021, and you're STILL one of those delusional folks who continue to blame certain (disliked) wrestlers for the low ratings. That's absolutely pathetic.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> It's 2021, and you're STILL one of those delusional folks who continue to blame certain (disliked) wrestlers for the low ratings. That's absolutely pathetic.


Vince is to blame. 

He pushes the wrong performers and books the right performers poorly.


----------



## MIZizAwesome

.christopher. said:


> That's considered good? PPV and new champ buzz and can't even get 2m. This time next year they'll be below 1m. Things are looking good!


Where in my post do you see any of that? Some people lol I love this site


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

DammitChrist said:


> It's 2021, and you're STILL one of those delusional folks who continue to blame certain (disliked) wrestlers for the low ratings. That's absolutely pathetic.


Its 2021 and you pretend the talents have zero impact on ratings. Listen I understand why you do it, you're a fan of dreadfully dull Pro Wrestlers that don't draw so you have to pretend like none of the Wrestlers impact ratings, but that's just not true. People tune in for interesting segments and interesting performers and skip the boring ones.

Do you seriously think that the McMahons hand picking a core group of talents who all look and sound the same and only pushing them doesn't impact the ratings? You seriously think going from Reigns, to Rollins, to McIntyre as the guy on Raw has had zero impact on ratings. Three guys who were dreadfully dull in their top babyface role, three guys who were over pushed, and over protected while more organically over talents were repeatedly buried had zero impact on ratings?

Even if you think the World of Rollins and Drew the reality is they both grew very stagnant in their role as top Babyface.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.916M [9th] | 0.580D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.918M [8th] | 0.600D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.817M [11th] | 0.570D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.884M | 0.583D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.002M | + 0.10% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 3.45% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.101M | - 5.27% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.099M | - 5.17% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.72% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.006M | - 0.32% ]
[ + 0.016D | + 2.82% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.373M | - 16.53% ]
[ - 0.154D | - 20.90% ]*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Drew's Title Run Average Viewership 2021 - 1.862 (1.818 not counting Legend's Night)
Miz's Title Run Average Viewership 2021 - 1.887

Miz's one non-post PPV episode beat out all of Drew's non-post PPV/Legend's Nights shows!

Miz the draw! Should get the belt back on him soon for those big numbers!

Seriously though, bad that it's down year over year, but this did seem a bit more consistent than usual. I like when they have storylines linking the hours and building up throughout the night. It's still though a very bad number y-o-y... especially considering it's Mania season.


----------



## Charzhino

That final hour held up alright. Usually theres a huge drop from hour 1.


----------



## justin waynes

The ratings are going up bit by bit .not really bad


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

We're on the Road To Wrestlemania*™ *and all three hours were below 2M.

That's apocalyptically bad. Down 20% in the demo year over year. No amount of goalpost shifting can change that.

I say this once a year, but until Vince retires and someone else takes over, WWE is on an endless downward spiral.


----------



## the_hound

"downward spiral"


----------



## fabi1982

All these people „downward spiral“ or „the end is near“. Just check the list, the nearly double the demo pos. 4 has in the ratings list. So why would ANYONE think they are dying? They bring the ratings, they bring the advertising money, they bring the smiles on USA execs faces.


----------



## Dark Emperor

fabi1982 said:


> All these people „downward spiral“ or „the end is near“. Just check the list, the nearly double the demo pos. 4 has in the ratings list. So why would ANYONE think they are dying? They bring the ratings, they bring the advertising money, they bring the smiles on USA execs faces.


Also the year on year comparison is unfair as the shows still have no Live fans. There are some people that just wont watch anything without proper fans.

NFL, NBA and all the other Sports ratings are down big too. If we compare the numbers from start of pandemic, then these numbers are decent.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Year over year I think is the best metric, although it’s not perfect. Using it on its own doesn’t say too much, but using that along with recent months average number (factoring in competition vs non-competition like Football season vs non), and how the show performed over the course of the night (did they start big and lose a bunch, remain consistent or build throughout).

There are tons of factors. I like year over year the most because typically it’s the most comparable. Though due to pandemic, admittedly it might not be as great an indicator as usual.

Edit: As far as the whole “dying” thing, there are many things beyond TV ratings and who draws/doesn’t that factor into the business as a whole. I’d need to look at financials to see, but I’d imagine business wise they’re good.


----------



## Dark Emperor

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Year over year I think is the best metric, although it’s not perfect. Using it on its own doesn’t say too much, but using that along with recent months average number (factoring in competition vs non-competition like Football season vs non), and how the show performed over the course of the night (did they start big and lose a bunch, remain consistent or build throughout).
> 
> There are tons of factors. I like year over year the most because typically it’s the most comparable. Though due to pandemic, admittedly it might not be as great an indicator as usual.
> 
> Edit: As far as the whole “dying” thing, there are many things beyond TV ratings and who draws/doesn’t that factor into the business as a whole. I’d need to look at financials to see, but I’d imagine business wise they’re good.


More than good. They actually made more money than ever in 2020. House shows were loss making part of business which of course they didnt run. They still got their TV money in full for both Raw and Smackdown. Cut costs significantly by running in performance centre and getting rid of a bunch of talent. Online sales went up as well. Main source of income they missed out on big is Saudi money and obviously Wrestlemania & Summerslam weeks.

They've now just signed 1bn dollar deal with Peacock. People talking about them dying because of the TV ratings don't know anything. Most people are not watching the shows Live. Why would you, when you can watch it at your convenience or highlights later. That is why their social media numbers are huge.


----------



## fabi1982

Dark Emperor said:


> Also the year on year comparison is unfair as the shows still have no Live fans. There are some people that just wont watch anything without proper fans.
> 
> NFL, NBA and all the other Sports ratings are down big too. If we compare the numbers from start of pandemic, then these numbers are decent.


And even if they are not decent, they still have a much bigger demo than any other show on cable. Bu yeah I am interested in numbers once fans are back


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Of course the 3rd hour didn't drop as much. As I was watching the shitshow (on DVR) I kept telling my wife they are begging for a rating by promising a 9PM title match, no a 10PM title match oh wait a 10:50PM title match.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.031M [8th] | 0.580D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.921M [10th] | 0.550D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.738M [13th] | 0.530D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.897M | 0.553D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.110M | - 5.42% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.17% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.183M | - 9.53% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.64% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.293M | - 14.43% ]
[ - 0.050D | - 8.62% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.013M | + 0.69% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.15% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.266M | - 12.30% ]
[ - 0.137D | - 19.86% ]*


----------



## Frost99

WOW the road to "Wrestle-MEH-nia" is filled with such mediocre moments I'll hardly remember them by next week.....

Remember when RTWM actually gave moments people remember?










 (even recent history)





1.88 mill on the average on the RTWM, just depresing much like the "creativity" #LACKTHEREOF


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hey over 2 mil.


Lash ley lash ley


----------



## Swindle

Bobby "the draw" ... MVP and the Hurt Business !!!


----------



## justin waynes

Frost99 said:


> WOW the road to "Wrestle-MEH-nia" is filled with such mediocre moments I'll hardly remember them by next week.....
> 
> Remember when RTWM actually gave moments people remember?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (even recent history)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.88 mill on the average on the RTWM, just depresing much like the "creativity" #LACKTHEREOF


The pandemic also resulted to this


----------



## justin waynes

Lashley is a draw and the hurt business


----------



## Dark Emperor

Good job Bobby. Impressive first hour. 

Shame there is no crowd. Too many fans ain't gonna watch wrestling without fans. Road to Mania or Not. 

Mania is gonna do big business tho as that's the first time we're gonna see a big size crowd in wrestling for over 1yr.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.874M [8th] | 0.530D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.873M [9th] | 0.560D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.782M [11th] | 0.590D [1st]

3V | 3D: 1.843M | 0.560D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.001M | - 0.05% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 5.66% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.091M | - 4.86% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 5.36% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.092M | - 4.91% ]
[ + 0.060D | + 11.32% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.054M | - 2.85% ]
[ + 0.007D | + 1.27% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.492M | - 21.07% ]
[ - 0.197D | - 26.02% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Pretty low for WM season, but still not nearly as low as that pile deserved.


----------



## Frost99

Didn't think it would EVER come to this but alas the RTWM is......








​


----------



## BPG

RTWM sucks like never... 
wrestling dies, sad


----------



## Seafort

Dark Emperor said:


> Good job Bobby. Impressive first hour.
> 
> Shame there is no crowd. Too many fans ain't gonna watch wrestling without fans. Road to Mania or Not.
> 
> Mania is gonna do big business tho as that's the first time we're gonna see a big size crowd in wrestling for over 1yr.


What are the ticket sales numbers at this point?

You have to factor in the number of fans who cannot or will not travel to the event. There were a ton of out of state fans at previous WrestleManias.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Viewership fell each hour but demo went up?


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> What are the ticket sales numbers at this point?
> 
> You have to factor in the number of fans who cannot or will not travel to the event. There were a ton of out of state fans at previous WrestleManias.


I mentioned in another thread how they never sell more than 65,000 tickets for a Florida WrestleMania when everything is normal. 

79% travelled from out of town. People from 68 countries attend. You can see a lot of non US flags and it's very popular with Canadians, Brits, Aussies etc. One of the reasons they stick to strong tourist hubs like Orlando, New York and LA. 

They'll get people but WM 37 tickets will be absolutely dirt cheap on the secondary market.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> I mentioned in another thread how they never sell more than 65,000 tickets for a Florida WrestleMania when everything is normal.
> 
> 79% travelled from out of town. People from 68 countries attend. You can see a lot of non US flags and it's very popular with Canadians, Brits, Aussies etc. One of the reasons they stick to strong tourist hubs like Orlando, New York and LA.
> 
> They'll get people but WM 37 tickets will be absolutely dirt cheap on the secondary market.


Yes, when I took my family up to Dallas to see WrestleMania 32 we were staying at a hotel that had several Australian fans.


----------



## MoxAsylum

What a shocker, nobody cares about geeks like Drew, atrocious acts like the fiend and Alexa, etc...


----------



## Impermanence

The Raw roster is simply garbage. 

I'm actually surprised they're getting 1M+ viewers.

Nobody outside of Randy Orton and Lashley/MVP are exciting. 

Women's wrestling, Miz, Retribution, Matt Riddle, Braun, Shane, New Day and the raw tag division are all a complete joke and instant channel changers. 

Drew Mcintyre is just boring. Oh and Randy is being wasted on that lame and stupid Alexa Bliss and Fiend crap when he should be having a big money match against someone like Braun Strowman or Lashley at wrestlemania.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.878M [12th] | 0.520D [6th]
V2 | D2: 1.841M [14th] | 0.530D [5th]
V3 | D3: 1.729M [16th] | 0.530D [4th]

3V | 3D: 1.816M | 0.527D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.037M | - 1.97% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 1.92% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.112M | - 6.08% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.149M | - 7.93% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 1.92% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.027M | - 1.47% ]
[ - 0.033D | - 5.89% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.190M | - 9.47% ]
[ - 0.086D | - 14.03% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Not great. Even the demos look worse than usual. Wonder if that would be due to March Madness.

Should also be interesting to see where things are after WM, but I'm guessing it will be around the same. Seems like the audience is what it is at this point, and will only really fall off a cliff once the last of the people sticking around because of nostalgia die off.


----------



## Impermanence

I'm desperate for another historic low, sub-1. 5M viewers or even fewer than that.. Because Raw is unwatchable to me and so I don't even check it for my favs Randy, AJ Styles and Mustafa Ali any more. 

Even the Three hour format has been around for a decade now and I want change. Raw being three hours was fine between 2012-2015 when they had big names and a joint roster and joint tag division but Raw now is full of filler like women's wrestling, weak roster like New day, Miz, Fiend etc. 

Couple that with the fact that Orton, Styles and Jeff Hardy are the only big names they got(who are booked in crap feuds), It's astonishing to me how over 1.5M viewers watch this show LIVE.


----------



## Frost99

How many of us either feel watching RAW or the reaction after looking @ the #Wrestle-MEH-nina card


----------



## Frost99

So ratings just released SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Monday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 3.29.2021 | Showbuzz Daily & 1.7 the average & on the RTWM this is the gif that best describes.....


#Wrestle-MEH-nia #Sad







​


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.733M [7th] | 0.530D [3rd]
V2 | D2: 1.697M [9th] | 0.560D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.673M [10th] | 0.580D [1st]

3V | 3D: 1.701M | 0.557D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.036M | - 2.08% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 5.66% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.024M | - 1.41% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 3.57% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.060M | - 3.46% ]
[ + 0.050D | + 9.43% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.115M | - 6.33% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 5.69% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.223M | - 11.59% ]
[ - 0.026D | - 4.46% ]*


----------



## Impermanence

Wow even this thread is dead just like Monday Night Raw. I found this week's card much better and would like to watch AJ Styles vs Xavier Woods, Sheamus vs Riddle, Lashley vs Shelton and Drew vs Ricochet/Mustafa Ali, and I'm considering watching this episode.

Outside of MVP/Hurt business segment and may be Braun/Shane I think everything else on this episode is pure garbage that I'm gonna have to skip and forward past- whether it's Alexa's stupid segment and by extension Randy Orton(Can't wait for Randy to be done with that channel-changing hot garbage Bray Wyatt), women's wrestling, the Miz and Bad bunny crap, or even AJ Styles/New Day(only the match is important, I couldn't give a damn about Omos and New Day).

That itself tells you all-I'm only interested in the MATCHES featuring a handful of wrestlers for the sheer wrestling, and none of the Angles or talking parts outside of MVP and Drew looking out for a challenge are entertaining in the least.

And when people are interested MORE in the matches for the athleticism rather than the Angles and Talking, and when Randy and AJ Styles are being wasted on garbage like Fiend and New Day, and THAT is your RTWM, even casual fans this year must've decided to not watch.

I'd watch Sheamus vs Riddle or Drew vs Ricochet/Mustafa Ali even if it was on Superstars or Main Event, but I'd NEVER watch a show which has angles like Alexa Bliss/Fiend, Bad Bunny, Miz etc. And that explains the ratings.


----------



## Prosper

I mean hey, the demos are good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Get the title back on Miz, asap! 

lol but seriously, they need to figure something out. Lashley/McIntyre should feel like a bigger deal than it is. Hell, Lashley as WWE Champion should feel like a bigger deal. And I'm very much enjoying him as champion, but something is off. I think one thing is that they had him have two weeks of competitive matches with Sheamus of all people, when he probably should have just destroyed him and continued the dominance he was displaying over Miz. Now they're breaking apart The Hurt Business because... reasons. Rather than make the whole group a dominating force, it's just Lashley (who is starting to go back to having competitive matches when he shouldn't be), the mouthpiece MVP, and a couple of guys they'll use to job out now since they only (maybe) have plans for Lashley.

Never mind that the rest of the show feels pretty directionless. There are some stories going on, but they're all very half-assed. In my honest opinion, they really need to have a general idea of things booked out a year ahead. At least for the main event/woman's title. Mid card and tag title programs can be booked 6 months ahead, as well as individual feud/programs (though they should have a general idea of who they want to be champions and challengers for the following year's Mania). Plus should have basic idea of back-up plans in case of injuries, fans not caring about what's being built up to, etc. Should have individual shows or storylines written out months ahead of time. 

Not saying it would be easy, but if they really put the effort in and built two mid-card guys up well enough over the next year, with great storylines/feuds to keep them interesting and white hot during the year, then you could easily have those two main event Mania next year in today's WWE, and it would probably feel far more special than whatever WWE is doing this year.


----------



## CenaFan247

I've stopped watching RAW myself, Smackdown is the only show worth watching when it comes to the WWE. RAW is just so lackluster and 3 hours has a lot to do with it, they really need to go old school and go back to 9 PM until 11 PM. Also there's really nothing on RAW that is interesting, I've never cared much for Drew, especially as a main eventer, I've never cared much for Lashley, the fiend stuff has ran its course to the point it's repetitive. One of their top stars in AJ Styles has been regulated to a tag team role, honestly Wrestlemania is going to be hard to watch this year, the only noteworthy match is Daniel Bryan vs Edge vs Roman Reigns


----------



## ShadowCounter

CenaFan247 said:


> the only noteworthy match is Daniel Bryan vs Edge vs Roman Reigns


Facts. Hope they play it right also because the aftermath of that match is all WWE has going for it after Mania IMO.


----------



## Klitschko

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.733M [7th] | 0.530D [3rd]
> V2 | D2: 1.697M [9th] | 0.560D [2nd]
> V3 | D3: 1.673M [10th] | 0.580D [1st]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.701M | 0.557D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ - 0.036M | - 2.08% ]
> [ + 0.030D | + 5.66% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.024M | - 1.41% ]
> [ + 0.020D | + 3.57% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.060M | - 3.46% ]
> [ + 0.050D | + 9.43% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ - 0.115M | - 6.33% ]
> [ + 0.030D | + 5.69% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ - 0.223M | - 11.59% ]
> [ - 0.026D | - 4.46% ]*


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Viewership numbers are AWFUL but the demos could be worse.

Truly a miserable ass show. Multiple terrible segments: Break-up The Hurt Business, Shane/Braun, Miz/Bunny shit, New Day Game Night and Alexa/Wyatt stuff.


----------



## Randy Lahey

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.733M [7th] | 0.530D [3rd]
> V2 | D2: 1.697M [9th] | 0.560D [2nd]
> V3 | D3: 1.673M [10th] | 0.580D [1st]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.701M | 0.557D*


Wow! If they are doing this on the RTWM, what do they do during NFL season? You could see some shows do 1.20-1.30 mils I think at this rate.


----------



## Klitschko

Randy Lahey said:


> Wow! If they are doing this on the RTWM, what do they do during NFL season? You could see some shows do 1.20-1.30 mils I think at this rate.


Their average will probably be 1.5 by Summerslam and I can easilly see them doing 1.2/1.3 by the end of the year.


----------



## DaSlacker

Klitschko said:


> Their average will probably be 1.5 by Summerslam and I can easilly see them doing 1.2/1.3 by the end of the year.


The drops will probably become less severe, though that downwards gradient will definitely continue. On the other hand, ThunderDome is here until Summerslam at least and WWE without 4,000 fans is really really hard to get into.


----------



## Impermanence

I can't wait for the 1.5, 1.3 and 1.2M average viewers (or hourly viewers). It's gonna be historic!


----------



## Kentucky34

The bad champions are to blame. Miz, Lashley and Drew. 

Gargano could be RAW's saviour but Vince will never get behind him.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

how do you LOSE viewers heading into wm.


----------



## postmoderno

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> how do you LOSE viewers heading into wm.


game show skits, horrible cringe music videos, angle involving a washed up 51 year old man "bullying" a 6'8 386 lb dude.

it's almost like they're trying to lose people on purpose as a challenge to themselves.


----------



## Kishido

RAW is shit and 3 hours is shit


----------



## Kentucky34

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> how do you LOSE viewers heading into wm.


By pushing the wrong performers and having an out of touch old man running things.


----------



## Not Lying

I'm legit surprised to see no one is blaming Lashley and they should take the belt off him already


----------



## Dr. Jones

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> how do you LOSE viewers heading into wm.


It honestly doesn't matter what time of the year it is for Raw anymore. Wrestlemania season, Summerslam season, the winter, etc... They will have a few random points in the year where they go up a point for two for a few weeks. Then it's back down to their gradual decrease in viewership that's been happening for the last 5 years. 

I don't think there's anything or anyone who can save Raw at this point. But they'll always be the most successful thing that's ever been on the USA Network, so they will never feel any heat or pressure to change their ways. USA/NBC/Universal is just as much to blame for the state of Raw as Vince is.


----------



## Klitschko

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'm legit surprised to see no one is blaming Lashley and they should take the belt off him already


That for reminding me lol. They should take that belt off Lashley and put it back on Drew. At least he usually got 1.8 lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'm legit surprised to see no one is blaming Lashley and they should take the belt off him already



Drew is still booked as the focal point of the show and the real champ.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nobody is really to blame for the low ratings tbh. Anyone on the current roster could be world champion, and you’ll still see similar results.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.759M [8th] | 0.540D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.723M [9th] | 0.510D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.622M [12th] | 0.500D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.701M | 0.517D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.036M | - 2.05% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.56% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.101M | - 5.86% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.96% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.137M | - 7.79% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.41% ]*










*W-W:
[ +|- 0.000M | +|- 0.00% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.18% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.399M | - 19.00% ]
[ - 0.186D | - 26.46% ]*


----------



## Frost99

The RATINGS to #Wrestle-MEH-nia everybody.........







​


----------



## Klitschko

Damn. wrestle-MEH-nia indeed. Their ratings will be down to 1.5's by summerslam.


----------



## Randy Lahey

1.7 for the Go Home to Wrestlemania. If they don't get 2 million viewers next week (which is always their biggest crowd of the year), they will never have 2 million again.


----------



## CenaFan247

Nobody wants to watch 3 hours of bland wrestlers


----------



## Impermanence

Randy Lahey said:


> If they don't get 2 million viewers next week (which is always their biggest crowd of the year), they will never have 2 million again.


Not even on one of those reunion/legends episodes 5 years down the line. 
With The Shield, AJ Styles, Brock Lesnar and others advertised?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Wrong thread lol*


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.125M [5th] | 0.690D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 2.091M [6th] | 0.710D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.862M [10th] | 0.650D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 2.026M | 0.683D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.034M | - 1.60% ]
[ + 0.020D | + 2.90% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.129M | - 10.95% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 8.45% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.263M | - 12.38% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 5.80% ]*










*WM 37-WM 36:
[ - 0.074M | - 3.52% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 2.84% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.325M | + 19.11% ]
[ + 0.166D | + 32.11% ]










Y-Y:
[ + 0.113M | + 5.91% ]
[ + 0.126D | + 22.62% ]*


----------



## Kishido

Why? The show was a cluster fuck. It will be down for sure next week because nothing interesting happened


----------



## postmoderno

Kishido said:


> Why? The show was a cluster fuck. It will be down for sure next week because nothing interesting happened


The whole raw after mania thing got people to tune in. But yeah, next week will be bad after that steaming pile.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

That terrible Raw managed to stay at a 2.0 float for two hours. I am shocked.


----------



## postmoderno

The hilarious (or tragic, depending on perspective) thing about this is that you know they are going to read it as evidence of doing a great job with the show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Is that the lowest rated Raw after WM ever? Anyone know?


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*WM 37:
2.026M
0.683D*










*WM 36 | WM 37:
2.100M [ - 0.074M | - 3.52% ]
0.703D [ - 0.020D | - 2.84% ]*










*WM 35 | WM 37:
2.924M [ - 0.898M | - 30.71% ]
1.083D [ - 0.400D | - 36.93% ]*










*WM 34 | WM 37:
3.921M [ - 1.895M | - 48.33% ]
1.463D [ - 0.780D | - 53.32% ]*










*WM 33 | WM 37:
3.767M [ - 1.741M | - 46.22% ]
1.427D [ - 0.744D | - 52.14% ]*










*WM 32 | WM 37:
4.094M [ - 2.068M | - 50.51% ]
1.547D [ - 0.864D | - 55.85% ]*










*WM 31 | WM 37:
5.364M [ - 3.338M | - 62.23% ]
1.857D [ - 1.174D | - 63.22% ]*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow actually averaged over 2 million. Horrible number though. Although being down only 3% from last year's post-Mania show is... something.

Also look at those numbers decline. Losing 1.3 million between 31 and 32 was a huge loss. Though 34-35 losing a million and then 35-36 losing 800k... maybe they've reached the bottom? (Nah, we'll probably see 1.5 million post-Mania show numbers in a couple years).


----------



## Klitschko

Not a bad rating. But back to 1.8 next week.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Last nights show will be the last time they ever reach 2 million again


----------



## MyronGainsBrah

Everyone tuned in for raw after mania only to be disappointed again. A huge oportunity lost. Back to the tanking next week


----------



## Impermanence

MyronGainsBrah said:


> Everyone tuned in for raw after mania only to be disappointed again. A huge oportunity lost. Back to the tanking next week


What else did people who made the mistake of tuning in expect? It was supposed to be garbage from top to bottom and the WWE delivered- almost 1 hour of women's wrestling garbage, channel changers like Miz, Alexa, Fiend, a horrendous undercard, AND charisma vacuums like Lashley and Drew Mcintyre. Even if they'd have done something interesting with Braun and Randy(which they didn't), the show would've been a pile of crap. 

1.5 M viewers will be the new 3 hour viewership average by Summerslam and I'm still bewildered that over 1 Million people waste 3 hours of time watching this garbage in an age of Netflix, Peacock/WWE Network and such. Absolutely bewildered. I wouldn't even watch YouTube clips and I'm gonna stop reading Raw results as well, as it's obvious now the quality has dipped since 2016 owing to the brand split and women's revolution BS, but 2019-2021 showed me that Raw is nothing but a pile of crap. 

Unless if they end the brand split, unify the world titles, but even then I'm not so sure.


----------



## Bliss316

I don't know why you people waste ur time with the ratings anymore.Ratings don't mean nothing it don't matter how much they fall as u can see Raw is still top 5 on the cable chart no matter what so its pointless plus Vince is getting billion dollars deals with peacock and Fox/Usa are paying him a shit ton aswell with the ratings tanking for years now so its pointless to even talk about.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Bliss316 said:


> I don't know why you people waste ur time with the ratings anymore. Ratings don't mean nothing it don't matter how much they fall as u can see Raw is still top 5 on the cable chart no matter what so its pointless plus Vince is getting billion dollars deals with peacock and Fox/Usa are paying him a shit ton aswell with the ratings tanking for years now so its pointless to even talk about.


People like to make a big deal about the ratings as that is the only area they can really justify their critisism of the company. This helps justify their disappointment in a product they should have stopped waching ages ago if its so bad.

Social media numbers up, Youtube numbers up, Revenue up, Profits up, $1bn Fox Contract, $1bn+ USA Network & $1bn+ Peacock deal. Even share prices up compared to this time last year. These are the bottomline that actually matters.

As long as Raw is a top rated show, they will still be the most valuable program to USA Network. Funny thing about that so called bad rating is that is only 3% down on last year which is actually pretty good when you consider all TV ratings are still going down year on year.


----------



## Bliss316

Dark Emperor said:


> People like to make a big deal about the ratings as that is the only area they can really justify their critisism of the company. This helps justify their disappointment in a product they should have stopped waching ages ago if its so bad.
> 
> Social media numbers up, Youtube numbers up, Revenue up, Profits up, $1bn Fox Contract, $1bn+ USA Network & $1bn+ Peacock deal. Even share prices up compared to this time last year. These are the bottomline that actually matters.
> 
> As long as Raw is a top rated show, they will still be the most valuable program to USA Network. Funny thing about that so called bad rating is that is only 3% down on last year which is actually pretty good when you consider all TV ratings are still going down year on year.


yup Vince know actally what he is doing when it comes to Business.


----------



## troyag93

They lost 2 million people in a span of 3 years? Jesus


----------



## troyag93

Bliss316 said:


> I don't know why you people waste ur time with the ratings anymore.Ratings don't mean nothing it don't matter how much they fall as u can see Raw is still top 5 on the cable chart no matter what so its pointless plus Vince is getting billion dollars deals with peacock and Fox/Usa are paying him a shit ton aswell with the ratings tanking for years now so its pointless to even talk about.


When they are getting less then a million in 3 years it will be a problem


----------



## Bliss316

troyag93 said:


> When they are getting less then a million in 3 years it will be a problem


people has been saying stuff like this for years and Vince still finds a way to profit trust me WWE is not going anywhere aslong as Vince is here running things.


----------



## troyag93

Bliss316 said:


> people has been saying stuff like this for years and Vince still finds a way to profit trust me WWE is not going anywhere aslong as Vince is here running things.


Nobody saying WWE will go bankrupt lol. If you think anybody is going to be happy with 800,000 viewers at a week you're nuts.


----------



## Bliss316

troyag93 said:


> Nobody saying WWE will go bankrupt lol. If you think anybody is going to be happy with 800,000 viewers at a week you're nuts.


Cable TV is dying thats facts I would not be shock to see Raw go under a million in a few years and still be top 5 show of the night.


----------



## ClintDagger

Bliss316 said:


> I don't know why you people waste ur time with the ratings anymore.Ratings don't mean nothing it don't matter how much they fall as u can see Raw is still top 5 on the cable chart no matter what so its pointless plus Vince is getting billion dollars deals with peacock and Fox/Usa are paying him a shit ton aswell with the ratings tanking for years now so its pointless to even talk about.


The ratings definitely still matter. People at WWE have lost their jobs in recent years due to sagging ratings. At some point WWE has to stop losing viewers by the 100Ks YoY or somewhere down the line they will no longer have any takers. Even a reduction in the next TV contracts compared to the last round would be devastating to them. For that reason alone it’s an interesting metric to follow.


----------



## ClintDagger

Bliss316 said:


> Cable TV is dying thats facts I would not be shock to see Raw go under a million in a few years and still be top 5 show of the night.


Quoting their demo ranking is pretty meaningless. WWE has horrendously bad demos. Where they bring value to networks is in their overall rating. Once that drops to a certain point relative to other shows their value is gone and they become a dime a dozen. That’s the real reason to follow it all.


----------



## Impermanence

You know Monday night Raw is dead when 2 years after a crappy "herstoric" WM mainevent, Ric flair's ugly daughter(with enhanced and plastic everything) and a chubby Japanese woman are the mainevent/big angle of MONDAY NIGHT RAW. 

Notwithstanding that the show is interspersed with some more ugly women, a ridiculous-looking 4'11 German babe doing whatever cringey thing she does; and a 40-41 year old Randy and a 45 year old MVP are the only ones on the entire show who can cut an entertaining promo.(That dork the Miz saying "really, really, really" doesn't count for 'entertaining' )

The 1.7 Million who lap this show up must clearly either be gluttons for punishment, or have zero standards. No way in hell anyone else would watch a show interspersed with unattractive old women as WRESTLERS, and an athletic yet misused men's division.

They shouldn't even be getting 1M viewers right now.


----------



## Kishido

I hope they will fall hard.


----------



## postmoderno

I wouldn't expect some huge fall this week, despite what was effectively a repeat of an already horrid show. Probably back to their middling numbers as of late. Guessing 1.8x H1, 1.7x H2, 1.6x H3, avg 1.7 ish.

Will probably stay this way for a long time too, absent some weeks where it goes a bit higher or a bit lower. The people who have stayed around at this point have a supernatural threshold for pain and will likely have to die before they quit watching.


----------



## Impermanence

postmoderno said:


> The people who have stayed around at this point have a supernatural threshold for pain and will likely have to die before they quit watching.


Lol, that made me chuckle. "Likely have to die before they stop watching" 😂😂


----------



## Zappers

Gotta love the people that join a WRESTLING FORUM ... WATCH EVERY WEEK, and then pretend like they don't watch wrestling because it's terrible. BUT yet know the entire WWE roster, who's on, what segments were on each week, etc... 🤔


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 2.017M [8th] | 0.630D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.981M [9th] | 0.630D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.724M [12th] | 0.570D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.907M | 0.610D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.036M | - 1.78% ]
[ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.257M | - 12.97% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 9.52% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.293M | - 14.53% ]
[ - 0.060D | - 9.52% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.119M | - 5.87% ]
[ - 0.073D | - 10.69% ]










Y-Y:
[ + 0.065M | + 3.53% ]
[ + 0.047D | + 8.35% ]*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Still the top 3 hours on cable and around 2 mil. Crazy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Shocked they actually got an hour above 2 million.


----------



## holy

Seriously, who the FUCK are these 2 million people that actually sit through an entire hour of Monday Night Raw?


----------



## TheGunnShow

2nd straight week of YoY growth. I guess the thunderdome is helping.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Wow, 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the so called key demo, plus year on year growth. Even the haters will keep quiet this week.

Like i've said before TV ratings in general are on a downturn and USA network need Raw more than Raw needs them.

Keep up the good work Vinnie Mac!


----------



## Bliss316

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow, 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the so called key demo, plus year on year growth. Even the haters will keep quiet this week.
> 
> Like i've said before TV ratings in general are on a downturn and USA network need Raw more than Raw needs them.
> 
> Keep up the good work Vinnie Mac!


the only downside is they keep giving us shit like last night but I don't care cause I just watch the segments I want on there youtube channel anyway.


----------



## rich110991

Fuck knows how the ratings aren’t tanking. Show was shocking.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Bliss316 said:


> the only downside is they keep giving us shit like last night but I don't care cause I just watch the segments I want on there youtube channel anyway.


Yeah, i'm in UK and don't watch it live. I just download during the week and skip whatever i need to. Much more enjoyable that way.

I'd rather do that than constantly moaning on a forum but somehow watching like Live anyway. Complete waste of 3hrs especially with the adverts.


----------



## holy

rich110991 said:


> Fuck knows how the ratings aren’t tanking. Show was shocking.


I'm thinking it's because there is still some interest from Wrestlemania. I'm hoping (praying) they reach a record low within few weeks.


----------



## The XL 2

Wrestling still has a huge potential audience, the fact that 2 million people watch this horse shit and 1 million people watch a bunch of spot monkey midgets fly every week on AEW proves that. They'd probably still be averaging 3.5+million viewers like they were 10 years ago if their product wasn't so shit.


----------



## Dark Emperor

The XL 2 said:


> Wrestling still has a huge potential audience, the fact that 2 million people watch this horse shit and 1 million people watch a bunch of spot monkey midgets fly every week on AEW proves that. They'd probably still be averaging 3.5+million viewers like they were 10 years ago if their product wasn't so shit.


You guys completely ignore the non live viewers which is now the majority. Why would anyone sit down and watch 2-3hrs of wrestling Live unless it's a special show. 

You can easily record it and watch at your leisure and skip the ads. Even better for some, just go on YouTube and all the main segments is on the WWE channel. This is what younger ppl do, that is why TV demo skews old, even the 'young & hip' AEW viewership is late 40s avg. 

This is why the WWE have record YouTube views and social media numbers bigger than massive brands like NFL. 

The majority are just not watching the full show as there is so many options but many are following. So the company will continue to be heavily profitable even though Live TV ratings will keep dropping. 

The next deal for both Raw & Smackdown would probably be exclusive rights on a streaming platform just like Peacock deal. The world is changing. We need to stop obsessing over TV rating in 2021.


----------



## The XL 2

Why will over 1 million people pay over 60 dollars to watch Jorge Masivdal fight Kamaru Usman this saturday? Because live entertainment is still at a premium. If people will pay money to watch something they could illegally stream or download after, then they'll watch for free, live, if your product is good.


----------



## Bliss316

The XL 2 said:


> Why will over 1 million people pay over 60 dollars to watch Jorge Masivdal fight Kamaru Usman this saturday? Because live entertainment is still at a premium. If people will pay money to watch something they could illegally stream or download after, then they'll watch for free, live, if your product is good.


cause alot of people are idiots.I would never pay 60 dollars for a ppv I can watch for free online.


----------



## The XL 2

Bliss316 said:


> cause alot of people are idiots.I would never pay 60 dollars for a ppv I can watch for free online.


Perhaps, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## Seafort

TheGunnShow said:


> 2nd straight week of YoY growth. I guess the thunderdome is helping.


WWE is entering a new Golden Era. Raw has never been better.


----------



## henrymark

rich110991 said:


> Fuck knows how the ratings aren’t tanking. Show was shocking.


Always gonna be die hards that watch no matter what. That's about their ceiling for that demographic.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.775M [9th] | 0.490D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.830M [8th] | 0.500D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.718M [10th] | 0.470D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.774M | 0.487D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.055M | + 3.10% ]
[ + 0.010D | + 2.04% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.112M | - 6.12% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 6.00% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.057M | - 3.21% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 4.08% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.133M | - 6.97% ]
[ - 0.123D | - 20.16% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.043M | - 2.37% ]
[ - 0.020D | - 3.94% ]*


----------



## postmoderno

Seems very odd the ratings would go up in the 2nd hour, but I've long ago given up trying to make any sense of the ratings.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Ratings have finally stabilized, this *must *be what people want to see.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

lol nobody wants to watch 3 hours of boredom. WWE really needs to change things up...AEW is where it's at


----------



## DaSlacker

InexorableJourney said:


> Ratings have finally stabilized, this *must *be what people want to see.


They've taken such a big hit between 2018 and 2020 that a plateau was inevitable. Even then they are having to throw out Raw's biggest matches to do it. For example, Drew vs Braun, Charlotte vs Asuka, Riddle vs Orton. 

The next noteworthy falls will come after Orton, Miz, Charlotte, New Day etc move into a special attraction role.


----------



## rich110991

So AEW only drew like 600,000 less than RAW. This is what WWE deserves for putting out a shit product every week. Surprised it’s taken this long. AEW has every chance of taking over 😊


----------



## Slickdude458

Just cancel this shit put everyone out of their misery if only it could be taken off the air for a few months and come back with a fresh reboot.


----------



## chronoxiong

Such a sad rating. Its very tellling that the moderators didn't even bother to sticky this week's RAW thread.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Haven't watched Raw or SD in several weeks. I have been following on here and listening to Alvarez on youtube LOL.


----------



## TheDraw

The overall consensus on this forum is that the WWE is unwatchable, yet you have these same people who say that tune in every week out of "routine".....

Gotta love wrestling fans.


----------



## Charzhino

How do 1.8M watch this, I want to know who these people are and what their lifestyle is.


----------



## Smark1995

Charzhino said:


> How do 1.8M watch this, I want to know who these people are and what their lifestyle is.


These are mostly children, families and old people! Those watching AEW are mostly SJW, Anime lovers and indie fans.


----------



## Zappers

Still don't understand why WWE won't just go to 2 Hours for Monday RAW. Save the 3Hr shows for special occasions. There's no more WCW, there's no competition on Mondays. How many more years is it gonna take them to figure this out? The 3 hour RAW should have ended, to be fair... like 8 years ago imo.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Zappers said:


> Still don't understand why WWE won't just go to 2 Hours for Monday RAW. Save the 3Hr shows for special occasions. There's no more WCW, there's no competition on Mondays. How many more years is it gonna take them to figure this out? The 3 hour RAW should have ended, to be fair... like 8 years ago imo.


It's not WWE's choice, they are being paid extra money by the Network for that hour.

As bad as people think rating are and as much as they have fallen over the years. The show was still 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the demographic on Monday.

I agree 2hrs will be better but it's all about money.


----------



## Zappers

Dark Emperor said:


> It's not WWE's choice, they are being paid extra money by the Network for that hour.
> 
> As bad as people think rating are and as much as they have fallen over the years. The show was still 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the demographic on Monday.
> 
> I agree 2hrs will be better but it's all about money.


I agree with the ratings 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I keep forgetting USA, I guess likes having that 3 hour bracket filled. Maybe on renegotiation, they should give it a try. USA will still benefit. Make the third hour for stuff like Miz or Austin's show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Zappers said:


> I agree with the ratings 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I keep forgetting USA, I guess likes having that 3 hour bracket filled. Maybe on renegotiation, they should give it a try. USA will still benefit. Make the third hour for stuff like Miz or Austin's show.


Those shows will not get anywhere near 1.6-1.8m that the third hours averages. So they either continue 3hrs or take the hit on rights fees. 

TV ratings is not as big a factor these days cus most watch later or on Youtube so they'd rather take the hit in overall ratings.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.891M [8th] | 0.540D [2nd]
V2 | D2: 1.979M [7th] | 0.570D [1st]
V3 | D3: 1.746M [10th] | 0.470D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.872M | 0.527D*










*H2 | H1:
[ + 0.088M | + 4.65% ]
[ + 0.030D | + 5.56% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.233M | - 11.77% ]
[ - 0.100D | - 17.54% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.145M | - 7.67% ]
[ - 0.070D | - 12.96% ]*










*W-W:
[ + 0.098M | + 5.52% ]
[ + 0.040D | + 8.21% ]










Y-Y:
[ + 0.186M | + 11.03% ]
[ + 0.070D | + 15.32% ]*


----------



## Bravesfan3

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *V1 | D1: 1.891M [8th] | 0.540D [2nd]
> V2 | D2: 1.979M [7th] | 0.570D [1st]
> V3 | D3: 1.746M [10th] | 0.470D [3rd]
> 
> 3V | 3D: 1.872M | 0.527D*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *H2 | H1:
> [ + 0.088M | + 4.65% ]
> [ + 0.030D | + 5.56% ]
> H3 | H2:
> [ - 0.233M | - 11.77% ]
> [ - 0.100D | - 17.54% ]
> H3 | H1:
> [ - 0.145M | - 7.67% ]
> [ - 0.070D | - 12.96% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *W-W:
> [ + 0.098M | + 5.52% ]
> [ + 0.040D | + 8.21% ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y-Y:
> [ + 0.186M | + 11.03% ]
> [ + 0.070D | + 15.32% ]*


Horrible numbers, how are they not panicking? Even for a base that's low.

Also, now Raw officially has exactly 1 million more viewers than AEW Dynamite. both shows will continue to lose viewers however.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Big increase this week and 11% up year on year. Not bad. Thunderdome did have an effect. Crowd should bump it back to 2m hopefully.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Bravesfan3 said:


> Horrible numbers, how are they not panicking? Even for a base that's low.
> 
> Also, now Raw officially has exactly 1 million more viewers than AEW Dynamite. both shows will continue to lose viewers however.


How are those horrible number? All 3 hrs are number 1, 2 & 3 on Cable on Monday night.
Viewership is 5.5% up on last week and and 11% up on last year.

I guess every other show on Cable on Mondays is drawing horrible numbers too then.


----------



## validreasoning

Bravesfan3 said:


> Horrible numbers, how are they not panicking? Even for a base that's low.
> 
> Also, now Raw officially has exactly 1 million more viewers than AEW Dynamite. both shows will continue to lose viewers however.


#1-3 on cable, nearly doubling the two live NBA games head to head in viewers and up more than 10% from same week last year

Why would they be panicking lol. Raw will get huge rights increase if those trends continue. Remember NBA is scheduled to get 3 times their current deal next time.


----------



## postmoderno

Unbelievable that nearly 2 million people per week are watching this mind numbing drivel. Even the pollyannas on this forum seem underwhelmed with the show lately.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Still not good numbers but it is better than a 1.4.


----------



## chronoxiong

Thats an improvement. The show was not as good though but whatever.


----------



## Bliss316

told you guys its pointless to talk about the ratings.they don't really matter anymore and anyway they prob already drop as far as they going to all thats left now are the diehards and they will always watch no matter what.

also another thing alot of people stream stuff these days also some just to watch the highlights on youtube another reason why people should pay no mind to ratings these days.


----------



## Seafort

Bliss316 said:


> told you guys its pointless to talk about the ratings.they don't really matter anymore and anyway they prob already drop as far as they going to all thats left now are the diehards and they will always watch no matter what.
> 
> also another thing alot of people stream stuff these days also some just to watch the highlights on youtube another reason why people should pay no mind to ratings these days.


What actually is happening is that RAW is stair-stepping downward into oblivion. You can kind of see this going on for at least six years, ever since Seth Rollins became champion the first time.

Here's what I mean:

1. Viewership stabilizes for a time
2. RAW booking issues eventually compound, entertainment value plummets. 
3. A segment of the hard-core fanbase taps out. Viewership drops, and then we achieve a new core

That remains stable for a while as WWE makes temporary efforts to improve things. Then the cycle begins again - booking issues multiply, entertainment value plummets, and another slice of the hardcore base gives up. Then WWE rallies and stabilizes its viewer base. But they never really recoup what they lost. And the base remains stable for a bit, until the cycle begins once more.

Right now we're in the phase where WWE has stabilized RAW, which has been going on for basically the last four months. But once their storylines take another nosedive - once there is a change in direction or they find themselves booking into a corner - they'll cause another portion of that older fanbase to give up. And so on, and so on, and so on.

WWE treading water is good right now, but they need to either maintain a 2M base for two or three years (viewer erosion in the overall market would make this a huge victory financially) or try to claw back some casual fans. History is showing otherwise right now.


----------



## ClintDagger

Seafort said:


> What actually is happening is that RAW is stair-stepping downward into oblivion. You can kind of see this going on for at least six years, ever since Seth Rollins became champion the first time.
> 
> Here's what I mean:
> 
> 1. Viewership stabilizes for a time
> 2. RAW booking issues eventually compound, entertainment value plummets.
> 3. A segment of the hard-core fanbase taps out. Viewership drops, and then we achieve a new core
> 
> That remains stable for a while as WWE makes temporary efforts to improve things. Then the cycle begins again - booking issues multiply, entertainment value plummets, and another slice of the hardcore base gives up. Then WWE rallies and stabilizes its viewer base. But they never really recoup what they lost. And the base remains stable for a bit, until the cycle begins once more.
> 
> Right now we're in the phase where WWE has stabilized RAW, which has been going on for basically the last four months. But once their storylines take another nosedive - once there is a change in direction or they find themselves booking into a corner - they'll cause another portion of that older fanbase to give up. And so on, and so on, and so on.
> 
> WWE treading water is good right now, but they need to either maintain a 2M base for two or three years (viewer erosion in the overall market would make this a huge victory financially) or try to claw back some casual fans. History is showing otherwise right now.


WWE television as we know and have known it is slowly fading away. The demos for wrestling are awful and these networks will eventually see the raw rating for Raw and SD as no longer worth owning the stigma of televising wrestling. Soon both shows will be behind paywalls.


----------



## Bravesfan3

Seafort said:


> What actually is happening is that RAW is stair-stepping downward into oblivion. You can kind of see this going on for at least six years, ever since Seth Rollins became champion the first time.
> 
> Here's what I mean:
> 
> 1. Viewership stabilizes for a time
> 2. RAW booking issues eventually compound, entertainment value plummets.
> 3. A segment of the hard-core fanbase taps out. Viewership drops, and then we achieve a new core
> 
> That remains stable for a while as WWE makes temporary efforts to improve things. Then the cycle begins again - booking issues multiply, entertainment value plummets, and another slice of the hardcore base gives up. Then WWE rallies and stabilizes its viewer base. But they never really recoup what they lost. And the base remains stable for a bit, until the cycle begins once more.
> 
> Right now we're in the phase where WWE has stabilized RAW, which has been going on for basically the last four months. But once their storylines take another nosedive - once there is a change in direction or they find themselves booking into a corner - they'll cause another portion of that older fanbase to give up. And so on, and so on, and so on.
> 
> WWE treading water is good right now, but they need to either maintain a 2M base for two or three years (viewer erosion in the overall market would make this a huge victory financially) or try to claw back some casual fans. History is showing otherwise right now.


Well put, use of the term "RAW is stair stepping downward into oblivion" really nails it and gives me the thought of what WWE is actually doing, it's dark and unnecessary:


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> What actually is happening is that RAW is stair-stepping downward into oblivion. You can kind of see this going on for at least six years, ever since Seth Rollins became champion the first time.
> 
> Here's what I mean:
> 
> 1. Viewership stabilizes for a time
> 2. RAW booking issues eventually compound, entertainment value plummets.
> 3. A segment of the hard-core fanbase taps out. Viewership drops, and then we achieve a new core
> 
> That remains stable for a while as WWE makes temporary efforts to improve things. Then the cycle begins again - booking issues multiply, entertainment value plummets, and another slice of the hardcore base gives up. Then WWE rallies and stabilizes its viewer base. But they never really recoup what they lost. And the base remains stable for a bit, until the cycle begins once more.
> 
> Right now we're in the phase where WWE has stabilized RAW, which has been going on for basically the last four months. But once their storylines take another nosedive - once there is a change in direction or they find themselves booking into a corner - they'll cause another portion of that older fanbase to give up. And so on, and so on, and so on.
> 
> WWE treading water is good right now, but they need to either maintain a 2M base for two or three years (viewer erosion in the overall market would make this a huge victory financially) or try to claw back some casual fans. History is showing otherwise right now.


From reading the numbers and looking at a graph, it appears the the declines happened in: 2002-2003, 2007-2008, 2011-2012, 2014-2015 and 2018-2019. I've left out 2001 because the numbers were so inflated before that due to the fad element that a big drop was unavoidable IMO. Likewise, 2020 is a bit of a false dichotomy due to the pandemic. 

It's possible 2021-2022 is a period of relative calmness before some big falls in 2023-2024. By the end of 2024 Styles, Lashley, Ziggler, Orton, Miz, Bryan, Kingston, Morrison and Sheamus will more than likely be gone or jobbing on the C show or in a limited appearance spot like Edge and Goldberg are right now. It will be interesting to see what impact it has on numbers.

Could see a renewed interest and more vigour from the McMahon family around the time of the 40th anniversary of WrestleMania in three years time. That show could act as a bit of a swansong for several of the aforementioned names and others (Cena, Lesnar, HHH). Then WWE appeal drops off a cliff shortly afterwards and 2025 makes 1995 seem like the golden age!

They could also change direction, attract a new generation of fans and makes a whole new cast of superstars too.....But then pigs might fly.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> From reading the numbers and looking at a graph, it appears the the declines happened in: 2002-2003, 2007-2008, 2011-2012, 2014-2015 and 2018-2019. I've left out 2001 because the numbers were so inflated before that due to the fad element that a big drop was unavoidable IMO. Likewise, 2020 is a bit of a false dichotomy due to the pandemic.
> 
> It's possible 2021-2022 is a period of relative calmness before some big falls in 2023-2024. By the end of 2024 Styles, Lashley, Ziggler, Orton, Miz, Bryan, Kingston, Morrison and Sheamus will more than likely be gone or jobbing on the C show or in a limited appearance spot like Edge and Goldberg are right now. It will be interesting to see what impact it has on numbers.
> 
> Could see a renewed interest and more vigour from the McMahon family around the time of the 40th anniversary of WrestleMania in three years time. That show could act as a bit of a swansong for several of the aforementioned names and others (Cena, Lesnar, HHH). Then WWE appeal drops off a cliff shortly afterwards and 2025 makes 1995 seem like the golden age!
> 
> They could also change direction, attract a new generation of fans and makes a whole new cast of superstars too.....But then pigs might fly.


Given comments that Khan has made about leveraging their IP, I wonder if in 3-5 years if they actually reboot the entire WWE fictional universe. Like Spiderman. A new Hulk Hogan, new Undertaker, new Steve Austin. Rehash and update old storylines. New wrestlers portraying old characters, brought forward to a modern age.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> Given comments that Khan has made about leveraging their IP, I wonder if in 3-5 years if they actually reboot the entire WWE fictional universe. Like Spiderman. A new Hulk Hogan, new Undertaker, new Steve Austin. Rehash and update old storylines. New wrestlers portraying old characters, brought forward to a modern age.


Nah, they'll get that wrong as The Huckster and Nacho Man vs Fake Diesel and Fake Razor Ramon headlines lol

In all seriousness, historically they followed a particular template, or Vince . There was a point in the early 2010s where he was using a structured version of the late 80's model. Cena, Punk, Del Rio, Orton, Sheamus, Show, Jericho, Ziggler, Rhodes all positioned eerily similar to how Hogan, Savage, DiBiase, Roberts, Warrior, Andre, Piper, Perfect, Rude were back then.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*V1 | D1: 1.912M [7th] | 0.550D [1st]
V2 | D2: 1.828M [8th] | 0.540D [2nd]
V3 | D3: 1.710M [10th] | 0.510D [3rd]

3V | 3D: 1.817M | 0.533D*










*H2 | H1:
[ - 0.084M | - 4.39% ]
[ - 0.010D | - 1.82% ]
H3 | H2:
[ - 0.118M | - 6.46% ]
[ - 0.030D | - 5.56% ]
H3 | H1:
[ - 0.202M | - 10.56% ]
[ - 0.040D | - 7.27% ]*










*W-W:
[ - 0.055M | - 2.94% ]
[ + 0.006D | + 1.14% ]










Y-Y:
[ - 0.102M | - 5.32% ]
[ - 0.034D | - 6.00% ]*


----------



## DaSlacker

Holding up surprisingly well considering the lack of excitement or storyline, lack of star power and merry-go-round of Drew, Bobby and Braun. On the other hand they had the heavy hitters on there: Charlotte, Asuka, AJ, Orton, New Day, Sheamus, Hardy.


----------



## postmoderno

Another week of decent numbers. Again, it boggles the mind. Just so implausible that millions of people can be watching a show that's so thoroughly boring.


----------



## Cosmo77

people just turn it on out of habit and never turn it off


----------



## Dark Emperor

They are actually maintaining same numbers as Road to Wrestlemania which is surprising. 

Good job Lashley. Vince made the right choice putting the belt on him. Now give him a proper feud.


----------



## holy

I'm starting to think that the ratings are steady because the audience wants to see 3 physically big men in Mcyintyre/Strowman/Lashley beat eachother up.


----------



## Seafort

It’s a new baseline that has been established with much of the audience. It will take prolonged repetitiveness or a fresh downgrade in storylines to drive off a portion of this cohort.


----------



## Bliss316

yeah the ratings have stable out they be in this range from now on and should go back over 2 million when fans are back so all the doom and gloom from users here thinking wwe is dying well sucks to be you.


----------



## reamstyles

Seafort said:


> Given comments that Khan has made about leveraging their IP, I wonder if in 3-5 years if they actually reboot the entire WWE fictional universe. Like Spiderman. A new Hulk Hogan, new Undertaker, new Steve Austin. Rehash and update old storylines. New wrestlers portraying old characters, brought forward to a modern age.


Its a gambke because I dont like it, but have a brand experimenting an idea..or say crossover like andre meets stone cold, nwo meets nexus..


----------



## postmoderno

Ratings get eaten by zombies too?


----------



## Seafort

Viewership last night, per PW Torch.

1.790M
1.932M
1.748M


----------



## 3venflow

Some demo numbers, plus NXT. Finding detailed ratings is hard with Showbuzz still not back.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

Wonder where this weeks rating is? I'm sure it was awful


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Extremelyunderrated said:


> Wonder where this weeks rating is? I'm sure it was awful




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397553345229774853

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InexorableJourney

Monday Shite RAW.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

i must say i didn't even watch the YT clips this week. just sounded awful. not surprised it's so low


----------



## DaSlacker

NondescriptWWEfan said:


> i must say i didn't even watch the YT clips this week. just sounded awful. not surprised it's so low


Just read they put the charisma free Ryker over AJ in 2 mins and Humberto, who wouldn't have got over as a happy go lucky babyface 25 years ago, over Sheamus in 3 mins. Jesus. 

The company is brilliantly run but the product is a mess.


----------



## 749129

Raw has become more and more worse from 2017 onwards.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Yeah put Kofi in the world title scene LMAO


----------



## Kishido

Deserved... Finally get it that no one gives a shit about 3 hours, rematches all the time and chicken breast Kofi in the main event scene


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> Just read they put the charisma free Ryker over AJ in 2 mins and Humberto, who wouldn't have got over as a happy go lucky babyface 25 years ago, over Sheamus in 3 mins. Jesus.
> 
> The company is brilliantly run but the product is a mess.


Honest question...do viewers or fans even matter to them anymore?


----------



## Seafort

And just imagine if the Heat vs Mavericks game had been competitive?


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> Honest question...do viewers or fans even matter to them anymore?


I think they just take their genre and position for granted. Mentality seems to be 'this stuff carries itself assuming you keep bringing in new faces'. 

Like a soap opera goes through a finite number of plots and themes: affair, crime, baddie, stunt etc. Then they do it all again with new characters, as the writers use older characters as a temple for the newer ones. WWE has a similar approach - the athleticism and scripted sports being something only wrestling offers. Occasionally they'll drop something bigger like cinematic matches and Reigns heel turn to get people talking. 

The guaranteed money they are making has just made them worse. A lot worse. They're looking at their position in the ratings, then telling themselves they are over performing In light of changing viewing habits.


----------



## OldSchoolRocks

Well deserved. Until they realise that they need to completely reboot in their presentation and choice of talents that are just driving the ratings down then they deserve every bit of continuing awful sinking ship ratings.
RAW is the same show for practically months, repetition beyond belief, talent that are bloody awful and not main roster worthy being wasted time on, ridiculous cast and script kookyness that has thrown any sense of fan investment in the product out of the window.
They refuse to change despite many false promises to fans that they will do and they have exhausted most of the good will from fans and the ratings are reflecting that.
Each year is sinking more and more. Sad but inevitable with the current product.
WWE is surviving on a combination of a brand name that once was respected for what they presented and TV network and Terrorist blood money deals.


----------



## postmoderno

Meh. I've seen this movie before. Ratings go down a week or two, critics predict doom, ratings go back up inexplicably despite no improvement in product to warrant it, the pollyannas all gloat about everything being fine after all, rinse and repeat.


----------



## Klitschko

Fuck RAW. I don't watch RAW. I used to try at least to watch the highlights from their you tube page of segments that look interesting. I checked last night and there was nothing. Literally nothing there. That's fucking pathetic that I couldn't find a 3 minute clip to see from there.


----------



## chronoxiong

Well deserved rating for RAW. I already said it was a chore to sit through this week. The main event was the women's tag team match. Plus, you have repetitive stuff constantly going on. So sad to see. No clue how the WWE will improve.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397553345229774853
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

Kishido said:


> Deserved... Finally get it that no one gives a shit about 3 hours, rematches all the time and chicken breast Kofi in the main event scene


Facts. 3 hours is mind numbing


----------



## Deathiscoming

CAPTAINAR said:


> Raw has become more and more worse from 2017 onwards.


It's actually an accurate assessment. 2017 Raw was still loaded with women's wrestlecrap, Stephanie on TV etc. But to balance that crap out, you still had Roman, Rollins, Joe, Wyatt, Balor and Strowman when they all were younger and felt fresher, unlike the 2021 versions. Even Lesnar appearing made it feel special and I'll take Lesnar as champion over Lashley or Mcintyre any day.

Now it's literally one hour out of three of women's wrestlecrap, and everything else on the men's side sucks as well. The surprise isn't that they drew 1.6M viewers, but that it took them so long to do so. I guess these 1.5 Million are the last folks with severely low standards and/or a lot of free time. Expect Raw to suck for years to come.



Klitschko said:


> Fuck RAW. I don't watch RAW. I used to try at least to watch the highlights from their you tube page of segments that look interesting. I checked last night and there was nothing. Literally nothing there. That's fucking pathetic that I couldn't find a 3 minute clip to see from there.


They had the top 10 Raw moments video clip up, but it sucks for fans who hate women's wrestling and hate having to keep forwarding through Charlotte or whatever 3 times during that short clip. At least AEW puts up long clips of promos such as Cody crying about his future baby, Miros promo, Ogogo and such. At least that gave me a great incentive to watch Cody vs Ogogo and Miro vs Archer.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

They really need to find a fresh challenger for Lashley. Actually Kofi would have been a decent PPV match for Lashley. Would be a squash I think to put Lashley over more, but the build to the match could’ve been great if done right. Instead they even botched that part of it up with how they started it. Plus Kofi is just there so Drew can “earn” his title match.

Also with regards to Lashley’s reign, they’ve done such a poor job with it following the title win. He has competitive matches all the time and they book him like your average heel. If they were going to do that, they should have just kept the title on The Miz. I think part of it is Lashley was taking some shine away from Roman’s heel run so they cut him down a bit (like they usually do for anyone besides Roman who gets momentum), but also they just seem more focused on protecting McIntyre. Lashley should have been decimating most of his opponents the last 3 months. Instead they’ve made him feel ordinary.

Like they could’ve even made a devastating decisive loss for McIntyre work if they knew how to tell long term stories. Loses at Mania, they do vignettes and promos about how he needs to get the fire back he had going into Mania last year, show him training more and preparing more than any other, move him to SD, and build him to take the title off Roman if that’s their ultimate plan (which I think it is).

Instead, we just have everybody watered down and it’s making the WWE Title scene unwatchable right now.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I think part of it is Lashley was taking some shine away from Roman’s heel run so they cut him down a bit (like they usually do for anyone besides Roman who gets momentum), but also they just seem more focused on protecting McIntyre.


I disagree that Lashley has been cut down because of Roman. Lashley got a clean and decisive win over Drew at WM -- the same guy that beat Brock clean the year prior (something Roman never did). Lashley also opened up RAW the majority of shows since WM. If he were cut down they would be putting him in bad time slots on RAW. 

The problem right now is that Drew has been overused in the title scene and it's effecting Lashley in a negative way.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Boy Wonder said:


> I disagree that Lashley has been cut down because of Roman. Lashley got a clean and decisive win over Drew at WM -- the same guy that beat Brock clean the year prior (something Roman never did). Lashley also opened up RAW the majority of shows since WM. If he were cut down they would be putting him in bad time slots on RAW.
> 
> The problem right now is that Drew has been overused in the title scene and it's effecting Lashley in a negative way.


Nah Lashley’s win at Mania wasn’t clean- MVP distracted Drew.

Whether it’s because Roman or not is not debatable but I think Vince saw Lashley looking like the strongest heel in the company in early March and put a fix to it after he won the title. Stripped away The Hurt Business and has made him look a lot more beatable (even having him take a pin loss to Kofi). Roman on the other hand since and including Mania has the double pinfall Mania closing win, “retired” Bryan from Smackdown, and just beat Cesaro clean. It’s like all of a sudden Vince realized he needed to book Roman stronger and Lashley weaker. Whether that’s because of Vince seeing Lashley looking stronger than Roman for a short period or not is again up for debate, but since actually shortly before Mania Lashley hasn’t been booked as the monster he was prior to his title win. For one reason or another.

Regardless, the problems with the main event are only part of the overall issue. Lashley’s reign has been a largely weak one, largely due to booking reasons. Drew also being overused in the main event isn’t helping things either.


----------



## peowulf

They need to scrap the 3rd hour and tighten the rest of the show. If they absolutely must have a 3rd hour slot, either do:
a) A revamped Main Event show, by promoting a couple of high profile matches during Raw. Remember when Lashley was chasing Miz around for a title match? That was actually entertaining. Have something like that on Raw and advertise the match on Main Event.
b) A Raw Underground show. It kinda sucked last summer, but they can tweak it here and there and make it watchable. Ideally I would want something like Lucha Underground with Shane as the authority figure but that would take time and effort, oh well.
c) An hour of women's wrestling. Not my first choice, but yeah, something to showcase more female talent, without excluding women from Raw altogether. Remember, if you don't like it, don't watch it. You have the main Raw show, this is something extra to air before Raw or after.
d) 205 Live. Same principle as above. Filler to be sure, but the goal is to make the main Raw show better. This can serve as a nice pre-show. 

Heck, you can even alternate these each week so you can have Main Event once a month etc.
I know that this means that the 3rd hour will likely drop a lot, especially with option D, but the goal is to help the main Raw show, quality and ratings wise. Smackdown is not perfect but it's much tighter and watchable.


----------



## Zappers

Discussed this before about RAW going to 2 hours. The ad revenue, etc... being the reason they don't... whatever. I really don't care.

They just need to do it. ASAP

This Monday's RAW for like the first time in a long time. I just let it play. Didn't even fast forward through commercials. (I was doing things around they house) I mean come on. It's like a freakin PPV!!! I'm working and saying , wow this RAW is STILL ON?


----------



## Deathiscoming

peowulf said:


> They need to scrap the 3rd hour and tighten the rest of the show. If they absolutely must have a 3rd hour slot, either do:
> a) A revamped Main Event show, by promoting a couple of high profile matches during Raw. Remember when Lashley was chasing Miz around for a title match? That was actually entertaining. Have something like that on Raw and advertise the match on Main Event.
> b) A Raw Underground show. It kinda sucked last summer, but they can tweak it here and there and make it watchable. Ideally I would want something like Lucha Underground with Shane as the authority figure but that would take time and effort, oh well.
> c) An hour of women's wrestling. Not my first choice, but yeah, something to showcase more female talent, without excluding women from Raw altogether. Remember, if you don't like it, don't watch it. You have the main Raw show, this is something extra to air before Raw or after.
> d) 205 Live. Same principle as above. Filler to be sure, but the goal is to make the main Raw show better. This can serve as a nice pre-show.
> 
> Heck, you can even alternate these each week so you can have Main Event once a month etc.
> I know that this means that the 3rd hour will likely drop a lot, especially with option D, but the goal is to help the main Raw show, quality and ratings wise. Smackdown is not perfect but it's much tighter and watchable.


I've been saying for months, just assemble all the women's wrestling they intersperse Raw with anyway, which amounts to roughly 50-60 minutes every week including matches, promos, interviews and commercials. And then demarcate it as a separate show of its own. That way people who only want to watch the important stuff, can watch the two hours of Raw. And women's wrestling fans can stick around for the third hour. It's win-win for both parties.

I bet that would give more fans an incentive to check out Raw since two hours without women's wrestling itself would seem like a huge step for them. Personally I would love it. I'd rather watch a Mustafa Ali or Ricochet match every week on my Raw than have them be relegated to "Main Event" only for Raw to feature an hour of women's wrestlecrap. (Unless if it's Mandy Rose in a swimsuit or bikini contest. )

Right now the WWE intersperse women's wrestling in the main show is because they are piggybacking off of men's hard work. They know fewer people would give a damn about watching womens wrestling if it was it's own show.. Since most people don't care for it.. So if the WWE intersperses the men's product with 3 women's matches, people would have no choice but to sit through it. But in reality, it just drives more fans away from Raw. Just my two cents.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400208178973904901

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400209554680471554


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Bobby Lashley is Champion. So, not much of a surprise.


----------



## Prosper

All of wrestling is down right now but RAW is literally the same show every week. It’s like they’re just running re-runs with the same matches with the same talent and the same interactions. I couldn’t tell you the difference from the last 4 RAWs they aired.


----------



## Kentucky34

They need a real star to build the brand around. 

Gargano would be perfect.


----------



## KrysRaw1

1.4? Holy shit that's pathetic


----------



## OwenSES

Shoulda kept the title on Miz!


----------



## La Parka

As a fan that has watched a decent amount of wrestling and just television in general... Monday night raw is easily the worst television show I have ever seen in my life. 

The stories go nowhere, the comedy is incredibly bizarre, there’s no compelling characters, there is absolutely nothing surprising or unpredictable about the show and everything is meaningless (belts, feuds, relationships) I never get anything out of the program outside of a waste of 3 hrs.

As low as the number is, I’m surprised it isn’t lower. We’re in an age where there’s so much technology and entertainment available to us and WWE offers a mishmash of absolute shit on Monday.


----------



## The XL 2

1.1 3rd hour. Lol holy fuck. This company is dying. I don't care what deals they have in place, without an audience, you're going to eventually die


----------



## Randy Lahey

1.17 million...told you guys that Dynamite will eventually beat Raw simply by Dynamite staying in the 1 - 1.2 mil range. Raw will sink to their level

Clearly the Peacock deal has not attracted any new viewers to the product


----------



## Chan Hung

1.1-1.5 hot damn! Well i must admit, Raw is consistant at one thing, them ratings dropping


----------



## .christopher.

Twat.


----------



## CookieMonsterPunk_SES

Them ratings tho! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CookieMonsterPunk_SES

.christopher. said:


> Twat.


Word. Came around to bite him. Pretty sure they were still averaging around 4 million viewers at that time too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chan Hung

CookieMonsterPunk_SES said:


> Word. Came around to bite him. Pretty sure they were still averaging around 4 million viewers at that time too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The irony in that video he mentions things that were current trends like tweets, instagram etc where they themselves failed to move forward with the times, pushing new talents, but rather to rely on the past to only find themselves where they are today.


----------



## Seafort

Randy Lahey said:


> 1.17 million...told you guys that Dynamite will eventually beat Raw simply by Dynamite staying in the 1 - 1.2 mil range. Raw will sink to their level
> 
> Clearly the Peacock deal has not attracted any new viewers to the product


Or even worse, it attracted new viewers who sampled it online and said "No Thanks!"


----------



## Y2K23

how long before the third hour scores below the 1M mark? end of 2021?


----------



## Seafort

chronoxiong said:


> Well deserved rating for RAW. I already said it was a chore to sit through this week. The main event was the women's tag team match. Plus, you have repetitive stuff constantly going on. So sad to see. No clue how the WWE will improve.


They could easily improve. Easily. A number of people could correctly book WWE out of the hole that they found themselves in.

The problem as others say is that they view record profits as a sign of record success. It is financially - in the sense that every corporation needs to view themselves. But in terms of their fanbase, on what will ultimately cause an NBC, an Amazon, or a TenCent to value them enough to continue to give them huge deals ten years from now - they are withering away. They've actively trolled their own customers over the last seven years, sent fans home infuriated in several recent WrestleManias, and in an era of ever more sophisticated entertainment have taken an outlier "sport" and dumbed it down to the level of a Barney viewer. And that's despite the fact that the bulk of their fanbase is male fans between 30-50.


----------



## Seafort

Y2K23 said:


> how long before the third hour scores below the 1M mark? end of 2021?


October. 

They just stair-stepped to a new low. They've been doing this since 2015.


----------



## drougfree

cant blame them raw has never been this bland . fun fact is i remember in this forum punk was called a ratings killer when he was drawing 5 million viewers

_from reddit : Last year, for reference ,they did 1.7 Million for Memorial day, and 2.19 the year before. _


----------



## BPG

They deserve even less


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Showstopper said:


> Bobby Lashley is Champion. So, not much of a surprise.


Bobby didn't wrestle on 5/31 or the week before it (the two weeks that saw the ratings drop) . It was Drew and Kofi in the main event for 5/31.....Drew and Kofi also wrestled the week before.

Not Bobby Lashley's fault.

(They need to use Kofi Better.)


----------



## RainmakerV2

USA and FOX are going to start calling for an end to the brand split soon. 1.1 is absolutely unacceptable, Memorial Day or not.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

That 1.42 was the lowest rating ever for RAW according to multiple sources.

Here is a comprehensive comparison:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





P.S. I think the talent of this show is good enough they just need better writing.


----------



## attituderocks

Who cares about ratings or draws? As long as the audience like the wrestlers and react to them.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Jesus Christ those are bordering on AEW numbers now. RAW is a terrible show, that's what happens when you just book long matches every week, you book the same matches every week. That's what happens when you don't tell coherent storylines are create characters.


----------



## Jnewt

RainmakerV2 said:


> USA and FOX are going to start calling for an end to the brand split soon. 1.1 is absolutely unacceptable, Memorial Day or not.


It won't help. We will go from watching the same Raw episode every week to watching the same Raw episode twice a week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheTomBradyofwwefans said:


> Bobby didn't wrestle on 5/31 or the week before it (the two weeks that saw the ratings drop) . It was Drew and Kofi in the main event for 5/31.....Drew and Kofi also wrestled the week before.
> 
> Not Bobby Lashley's fault.
> 
> (They need to use Kofi Better.)


He's the Champion, and he's boring trash.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Haven't they been giving women's wrestling much more time now? Three women's matches, Charlotte promo, and that cringey Alexa playground stuff. And wasn't that women's tag match, something that shouldn't even main event Sunday night heat or velocity, the main event of raw the other week?

That explains all. It's bad enough that the men's main event scene includes Drew Mcintyre, Lashley and Kofi Kingston. But subjecting the audience to one hour of women's wrestling week after week is literally also telling them, "we're gonna feed you crap and you're gonna eat it. don't like? Don't watch".


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

Showstopper said:


> He's the Champion, and he's boring trash.


Pretty much everyone in WWE is boring other than Roman and The Uso's. I wouldn't be shocked if it dips below 1 million soon


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Man that’s horrible. WWE as a whole is horrible. Both shows’ main title scenes are trash right now and not really looking like it’s going to get any better anytime soon. They have no stars, and even guys like Cena and Lesnar returning would have a short term impact. Ending the brand split is the same, and if anything may actually hurt the shows more if it’s two nights a week of the same old Roman storyline and/or Drew getting title shots constantly. 

I don’t see a way out. They have no potential stars either from what I see. It’s a sad state the company is in right now.


----------



## RainmakerV2

WWEs internal ratings that were distributed to employees say hour 3 actually did 1.5 million. 

Without showbuzz daily, who even knows.


----------



## llj

Just look at the RAW and Smackdown forums. Most of these threads are from weeks ago. If even the diehards in here are checking out, you can imagine a similar pattern must be happening amongst the non-diehard viewers

I can't even muster up the energy to show outrage anymore at the product, just sitting back and watching the company's fanbase slowly crumble already proves anything I've wanted to say


----------



## postmoderno

llj said:


> Just look at the RAW and Smackdown forums. Most of these threads are from weeks ago. If even the diehards in here are checking out, you can imagine a similar pattern must be happening amongst the non-diehard viewers
> 
> I can't even muster up the energy to show outrage anymore at the product, just sitting back and watching the company's fanbase slowly crumble already proves anything I've wanted to say


When there's little to no storyline development, particularly on Raw with rematches of rematches of rematches, there's not much to talk about and no real reason to watch.


----------



## Kishido

Dunno what we are discussing. Wrestling and especially RAW suck hard.

Characters are boring and the "storylines" are all over the place with the same old rematches.

Not even talking about it being 3 hours


----------



## ThirdMan

I don't know if this has been reported here, cuz I've got a few people blocked, but that big third-hour drop that PWTorch reported was apparently inaccurate, and the Memorial Day Weekend show did a 1.557, with an actual gain in the third hour:









Further data on WWE Raw viewership including quarter-hour breakdown


POST Wrestling obtained the internal ratings information from WWE covering this past Monday's Memorial Day edition of Raw.




www.postwrestling.com


----------



## DaSlacker

It did seem like an unrealistically big drop off considering the main event was hyped in advance and hour 1 and 2 were consistent.


----------



## ThirdMan

These sites are in such a rush to be the first to report these things that they're getting sloppy, it would appear. I imagine this trend will continue if Showbuzz Daily doesn't go back up, and no other credible site takes its place for the foreseeable future.


----------



## holy

FUCK! I was so happy seeing that Raw only did 1.4 million viewers overall and 1.2 million in the third hour. 

I guess it wasn't meant to be....yet. This piece of shit show has to reach a record low at some point this year.


----------



## InexorableJourney

holy said:


> FUCK! I was so happy seeing that Raw only did 1.4 million viewers overall and 1.2 million in the third hour.
> 
> I guess it wasn't meant to be....yet. This piece of shit show has to reach a record low at some point this year.


WWE demanded a recount.


----------



## postmoderno

Edit


----------



## chronoxiong

So it got a 1.4 million viewership average? Good to hear lol. Its not the lowest viewed RAW of all-time then.


----------



## ThirdMan

It was a 1.557 average.


----------



## postmoderno

chronoxiong said:


> So it got a 1.4 million viewership average? Good to hear lol. Its not the lowest viewed RAW of all-time then.


1.4 would indeed be a new record. Article states average was actually 1.557. All time low was Dec 14 2020 (as the article notes) at 1.527. So this was a narrow miss at a new record low.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Showstopper said:


> He's the Champion, and he's boring trash.


But he didn't even wrestle.

So how do you figure he affected the ratings?


----------



## Seafort

ThirdMan said:


> It was a 1.557 average.


A new Golden Era has begun.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

postmoderno said:


> 1.4 would indeed be a new record. Article states average was actually 1.557. All time low was Dec 14 2020 (as the article notes) at 1.527. So this was a narrow miss at a new record low.


Yep, here is the correction:









Updated & Corrected WWE RAW Ratings Report For This Week


Monday’s live Memorial Day edition of WWE RAW, featuring Drew McIntyre defeating Kofi Kingston in the #1 contender’s main event, drew an average of 1.557 million viewers on the USA Netw…




www.pwmania.com


----------



## Klitschko

I kept saying to everyone they would be at 1.5 by Summerslam, but damn, this is way too fast lol.


----------



## Not Lying

Ratings usually decrease during this period and start going back up around Aug/SummerSlam,that's been the trend at least for the past 3-4 years. Easy to understand, it's Summer, people ain't spending June and July night watching this repetitive boring crap when u can see quick highlights on youtube if you even care


----------



## Kentucky34

Less than 2 years ago Seth Rollins was drawing 2.7 viewers on Monday nights. 

RAW really does miss him.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ratings usually decrease during this period and start going back up around Aug/SummerSlam,that's been the trend at least for the past 3-4 years. Easy to understand, it's Summer, people ain't spending June and July night watching this repetitive boring crap when u can see quick highlights on youtube if you even care


Sounds right because Smackdown is dropping too:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





May 14, 2021: 1.80 million viewers (televised on FOX)

May 21, 2021: 1.83 million viewers (televised on FOX)

May 28, 2021: 1.755 million viewers (televised on FOX)

June 4, 2021: 1.792 million viewers (televised on FOX)


----------



## ThirdMan

Those are overnight SD numbers, not final numbers. Don't know why Fightful hasn't updated all but the most recent one yet. But we should expect all wrestling (and heck, general) TV viewership to be down as people are now more able to go out and enjoy the weather over the summer, after being stuck at home for so long (given the pandemic). That'll probably level out as the weather gets worse in the fall. And we'll see how returning crowds affect viewership overall. The NFL and wrestling fanbases haven't crossed over nearly as much as people would think in the past few years, either.


----------



## peowulf

attituderocks said:


> Who cares about ratings or draws? As long as the audience like the wrestlers and react to them.


They don't though. Rating shouldn't matter to the fans that much, but it's indicative that the show is getting worse and worse.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's not even football season yet, either. Just wait until the Fall. It's probably going to get even worse.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Showstopper said:


> It's not even football season yet, either. Just wait until the Fall. It's probably going to get even worse.


NFL didn't make a difference last year. Majority of the football viewers don't watch Raw live anymore. If it drops, its probably through a general lack of interest.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

I predict 1.2 million viewers


----------



## postmoderno

Extremelyunderrated said:


> I predict 1.2 million viewers


LOL! That would be great, but it's not going to jump that much lower so fast. I'm guessing 1.6 ish.

We probably won't even get a sniff of an initial number until tomorrow, based on how things have been lately.


----------



## Zappers

Well that's unfortunate.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401954789076791296


----------



## Deathiscoming

I have zero hope or wish of Raw improving even 10% so at this point I won't even care if they get 1.2M or some other historic low. They're not gonna change till they get cancelled and even if they make Raw a Network/Stream-only show like the PPVs, it will still be shit.


----------



## llj

They should be falling far faster than they have been. In fact I think their ratings are similar to last year's at the same time period so they haven't declined as fast as they should have, given its poor quality. But quality never did equate to ratings.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

WWE Monday Night Raw rating rebounds from Memorial Day's record low rating, key metrics and comparisons - Pro Wrestling Torch


Last night’s episode of WWE Monday Night Raw drew a 1.23 rating, up from last week’s 1.10 rating (Memorial Day holiday), which was the lowest of all-time for Raw. The 1.23 is right in line [...]




www.pwtorch.com







> The hourly viewership was as follows: 1.667 million, 1.651 million, and 1.602 million.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

TheTomBradyofwwefans said:


> WWE Monday Night Raw rating rebounds from Memorial Day's record low rating, key metrics and comparisons - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> Last night’s episode of WWE Monday Night Raw drew a 1.23 rating, up from last week’s 1.10 rating (Memorial Day holiday), which was the lowest of all-time for Raw. The 1.23 is right in line [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com


Can't believe that many people still watch that garbage


----------



## chronoxiong

1.23 overall rating for this week. At least thats a bump lol. Still can't believe this show was drawing 4 million viewers a few years ago. Time flies.


----------



## Klitschko

They will be getting 1.2 by the end of the year at this pace.


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's not bad to be honest. I expected worse.


----------



## reamstyles

chronoxiong said:


> 1.23 overall rating for this week. At least thats a bump lol. Still can't believe this show was drawing 4 million viewers a few years ago. Time flies.


I think the alst time they had that njmber was when Smackdown debut on fox..


----------



## Dark Emperor

chronoxiong said:


> 1.23 overall rating for this week. At least thats a bump lol. Still can't believe this show was drawing 4 million viewers a few years ago. Time flies.


That is not the viewership. For some reason without Showbuzzdaily, these people are now reporting % of TV audience. That is where the 1.23 comes from. It means 1.23% of of viewers watched Raw this week instead of something else in same slot.

This is also where the confusion from last week came from. The actual viewership was 1.64m, which is inline with last year before Thunderdome. I'm not sure why they are reporting it this way as they still report just viewership for NXT, AEW and Smackdown. I guess it's just clickbait


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Back to last week I can not believe that the 3rd hour saw an increase. 

I watched that awful segment with Bliss and Shayna. WOAT level stuff indeed.


----------



## Wizak10

I don’t even think Brock returning will help them, maybe the main event but they need better storylines for the entire show to keep people through 3 hours


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

Wizak10 said:


> I don’t even think Brock returning will help them, maybe the main event but they need better storylines for the entire show to keep people through 3 hours


They need to go back to 2 hours, 3 hours is awful. I miss the old days of RAW being 9PM ET-11PM ET


----------



## DammitChrist

Extremelyunderrated said:


> They need to go back to 2 hours, 3 hours is awful. I miss the old days of RAW being 9PM ET-11PM ET


Dude, you're like 9 years late on this :lol

They're obviously not going back to 2 hours anytime soon.


----------



## postmoderno

Shortening Raw from 3 to 2 hours is like giving a heart disease patient painkillers so it doesn't hurt so much when they go through cardiac arrest.


----------



## Zappers

postmoderno said:


> Shortening Raw from 3 to 2 hours is like giving a heart disease patient painkillers so it doesn't hurt so much when they go through cardiac arrest.


Nah. Shortening RAW to 2 hours would be beneficial. Rating would up increase. They need to keep it tight, enough with the PPV length RAW's 52 weeks a year. Even hurts the PPV's too. Makes them not special.

They can barely fill a 2 hour show with good solid segments on a consistent basis. 3 hours is a major drag. Smackdown does better and it's on ratings death night. Monday 8-10pm is great timeslot to have, they should not squander that opportunity. While we are at it. NXT should go back to 1 hour too. Yep, I just said it.

5 hours of WWE programing a week. Plenty good.


----------



## postmoderno

Zappers said:


> Nah. Shortening RAW to 2 hours would be beneficial. Rating would up. They need to keep it tight, enough with the PPV length RAW's 52 weeks a year. Even hurts the PPV's too.
> 
> They can barely fill a 2 hour show with good solid segments on a consistent basis. 3 hours is a drag. Smackdown does better and it's on ratings death night. While we are at it. NXT should go back to 1 hour too. Yep, I just said it.
> 
> 5 hours of WWE programing a week. Plenty good.


I'm not opposed to the idea, but the delusion that it would somehow improve the quality of the show has to end. 2 hours of pain is less than 3 hours of pain but is far less preferable to no pain at all, or dare I say, enjoyment.

I understand the temptation to make the comparison to smackdown is always going to be there, but the difference between the 2 shows is not just in length.

At this point, 0 hours of WWE programming is good. They could start by giving me 15 minutes or one match that I or anyone else could give a rat's ass about/be entertained by.


----------



## Zappers

postmoderno said:


> I'm not opposed to the idea, but the delusion that it would somehow improve the quality of the show has to end. 2 hours of pain is less than 3 hours of pain but is far less preferable to no pain at all, or dare I say, enjoyment.
> 
> I understand the temptation to make the comparison to smackdown is always going to be there, but the difference between the 2 shows is not just in length.
> 
> At this point, 0 hours of WWE programming is good. They could start by giving me 15 minutes or one match that I or anyone else could give a rat's ass about/be entertained by.


No delusion. It would absolutely improve the show(RAW)

No temptation. RAW can easily outdo SD. In fact, SD is lucky to get what they are getting now. RAW has the bigger potential. SD is just one giant Roman show. Way, WAY too much of Roman segments. They are gonna burn it out. RAW just doesn't know how to use time properly. So they they just stretch and put on subpar segments. 2 hours would force them to tighten things up.

Switch shows(or rather roster/storylines). Put SD on RAW with 3 hours. They would suffer and RAW would beat them.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

1.742 Million viewers for the 6/14/21 Raw:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





Some past RAWs for comparison:

April 12, 2021: 2.026 million viewers (this is the RAW that happened the day after Wrestlemania)
April 19, 2021: 1.907 million viewers 
April 26, 2021: 1.774 million viewers 
May 3, 2021: 1.872 million viewers 
May 10, 2021: 1.817 million viewers 
May 17, 2021: 1.823 million viewers 
May 24, 2021: 1.62 million viewers 
May 31, 2021 1.557 million viewers (Originally reported as 1.418 million viewers) 
June 7, 2021: 1.64 million viewers


----------



## postmoderno

Decent rebound. WWE just has to wait out one more filler ppv before the geezers start showing up more regularly and juice it back up to almost 2 mil a week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Not bad, best number for a month. This is down down period though, too many filler PPv's after Mania. 

Nothing feels big until build to Summerslam.


----------



## Zappers

Go home show, so it got a slight bump. Not really a surprise. They need to keep this, and improve each week.


----------



## SPCDRI

Post-WM April throughout June is WWE's offseason, basically. You just can tell they are phoning it and stretching stuff out and trying not to burn through big programs and angles before SummerSlam. Vince McMahon himself just said RAW is stale and in a holding pattern until the fans come back and they can build to SummerSlam. These shows being below 2 million is no big surprise. This is the dullest portion of the year.

I think moving Hell in a Cell to the summer instead of October is an attempt to juice up these spring and early summer months for WWE.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Another 1.5 rating incoming for this shit


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Shouldn't the ratings be out now?


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

1.719 Million viewers for the 6/21/21 Raw:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





Some past RAWs for comparison:

April 12, 2021: 2.026 million viewers (this is the RAW that happened the day after Wrestlemania)
April 19, 2021: 1.907 million viewers
April 26, 2021: 1.774 million viewers
May 3, 2021: 1.872 million viewers
May 10, 2021: 1.817 million viewers
May 17, 2021: 1.823 million viewers
May 24, 2021: 1.62 million viewers
May 31, 2021 1.557 million viewers (Originally reported as 1.418 million viewers)
June 7, 2021: 1.64 million viewers
June 14, 2021: 1.742 million viewers


----------



## DaSlacker

Post PPV, Hell in a Cell featuring the WWE champion, and three MITB qualifiers featuring 3 top names. And ratings still drop. 

Was there something else on last night or is it just a sign of the times?


----------



## Cosmo77

It is because Raw is boring and no one wants to watch Niki in a superhero costume and the wrong ppl won


----------



## postmoderno

DaSlacker said:


> Post PPV, Hell in a Cell featuring the WWE champion, and three MITB qualifiers featuring 3 top names. And ratings still drop.
> 
> Was there something else on last night or is it just a sign of the times?


I think the ratings just are what they are at this point no matter what they do. They have been hovering around 1.7-1.8 avg for all of 2021 outside of times like legends night, post mania, etc.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

DaSlacker said:


> Post PPV, Hell in a Cell featuring the WWE champion, and three MITB qualifiers featuring 3 top names. And ratings still drop.
> 
> Was there something else on last night or is it just a sign of the times?


Nobody wants to watch 3 hours of garbage, a girl running around hypnotizing people, boring wrestlers like Drew, etc. Plus it's summer time you honestly think people want to spend their summer watching a garbage product ?


----------



## SPCDRI

Kofi got flushed down the toilet by the way they booked him against Brock. He could have had a 15 minute television match and narrowly lost it in a valiant effort and Brock could have kayfabe broke his arm with a Kimura lock or something. Instead, they jobbed kofi out to 1 move in 7 seconds. That immediately destroyed Kofimania and then they threw him right down to the midcard, even the undercard, really, since he's not involved with new day and hasn't even been a tag champ in about a year.

Who could really be excited for a Lashley/Xavier Woods cage match?

That being said, I liked the rest of the show because it was fresher matches with surprising outcomes and it set up the Last Chance Match next week which I am looking forward to. One of their better shows in a while, but it was just filled with too much goofy stuff and undercard wrestlers. That's how it is. Scooters and Doudrop and mind control and superhero wrestlers is just too much sometimes. This show feels childish too often. Its got big tone issues.


----------



## Seafort

6/28/21 Viewership: 1.57M

*Fourth lowest of all-time*









WWE Raw Barely Tops 1.5 Million Viewers On 6/28/21 | Fightful News


WWE Raw viewership well down on June 28.



www.fightful.com


----------



## Not Lying

damn. And this is with having "stakes" for almost every match.


----------



## DaSlacker

Shocking they haven't ended the brand split again. Unless it actually is a directive from Fox to keep it in place. You can read the results and feel the lack of star power. 

3 hour long Raw is definitely suffering from the ageing main event scene and 205 like undercard. They are having to bring out Truth, Tozawa, Gulak (good talent but pure low card) to do the 24/7 shtick.


----------



## Kentucky34

They have no draws.


----------



## holy

Seafort said:


> 6/28/21 Viewership: 1.57M
> 
> *Fourth lowest of all-time*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Raw Barely Tops 1.5 Million Viewers On 6/28/21 | Fightful News
> 
> 
> WWE Raw viewership well down on June 28.
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com


FUCKKKKK YEAAAAAHHHH! FINALLY!


----------



## chronoxiong

Fans are tired of seeing Drew McIntrye on top. So sad.


----------



## Chan Hung

So, 1,570,000 viewers. That is Quite deserving, they are lucky it wasn't lower.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

It .might actually be possible for raw to hit under a million when Monday night football comes back


----------



## Deathiscoming

It's not even worth reading the results anymore when you have to constantly forward women's wrestlecrap even in the damn results. And with bland maineventers like Drew and challengers like Kofi, I'm shocked 1.5M STILL watch this crap. I'd rather play spiderman or watch YouTube or Netflix.


----------



## AboutDatBiz619

Botchy SinCara said:


> It .might actually be possible for raw to hit under a million when Monday night football comes back


Only thing that I could see saving RAW is making it two hours and putting Roman on RAW


----------



## Kishido

Deserving... Show is a shithole and 3 hours of blant shit


----------



## Kentucky34

Numbers have gone done drastically since Seth left.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Kentucky34 said:


> Numbers have gone done drastically since Seth left.


Not sure why you'd go with this since Smackdown ratings are dropping too.


----------



## Kentucky34

ShadowCounter said:


> Not sure why you'd go with this since Smackdown ratings are dropping too.


Not as much.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Kentucky34 said:


> Numbers have gone done drastically since Seth left.


Seth Rollins first day on Smackdown was October 16th, 2020 so the first RAW without him was October 19, 2020:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





January 6, 2020: 2.384 million viewers
January 13, 2020: 2.030 million viewers
January 20, 2020: 2.380 million viewers
January 27, 2020: 2.402 million viewers
February 3, 2020: 2.168 million viewers
February 10, 2020: 2.337 million viewers
February 17, 2020: 2.437 million viewers
February 24, 2020: 2.210 million viewers
March 2, 2020: 2.256 million viewers
March 9, 2020: 2.162 million viewers
March 16, 2020: 2.335 million viewers
March 23, 2020: 2.006 million viewers
March 30, 2020: 1.923 million viewers
April 6, 2020: 2.099 million viewers
April 13, 2020: 1.913 million viewers
April 20, 2020: 1.842 million viewers
April 27, 2020: 1.817 million viewers
May 4, 2020: 1.686 million viewers
May 11, 2020: 1.918 million viewers
May 18, 2020: 1.757 million viewers
May 25, 2020: 1.735 million viewers
June 1, 2020: 1.728 million viewers
June 8, 2020: 1.737 million viewers
June 15, 2020: 1.938 million viewers
June 22, 2020: 1.922 million viewers
June 29, 2020: 1.735 million viewers
July 6, 2020: 1.687 million viewers
July 13, 2020: 1.561 million viewers
July 20, 2020: 1.628 million viewers
July 27, 2020: 1.616 million viewers
August 3, 2020: 1.714 million viewers
August 10, 2020: 1.722 million viewers
August 17, 2020: 1.643 million viewers
August 24, 2020: 2.028 million viewers
August 31, 2020: 1.896 million viewers
September 7, 2020: 1.725 million viewers
September 14, 2020: 1.689 million viewers
September 21, 2020: 1.667 million viewers
September 28, 2020: 1.822 million viewers
October 5, 2020: 1.686 million viewers
October 12, 2020: 1.855 million viewers (Last day for RAW with Seth Rollins)
October 19, 2020: 1.776 million viewers (First day for RAW without Seth Rollins)
October 26, 2020: 1.732 million viewers
November 2, 2020: 1.656 million viewers
November 9, 2020: 1.689 million viewers
November 16, 2020: 1.778 million viewers
November 23, 2020: 1.808 million viewers
November 30, 2020: 1.741 million viewers
December 7, 2020: 1.736 million viewers
December 14, 2020: 1.526 million viewers
December 21, 2020: 1.691 million viewers
December 28, 2020: 1.769 million viewers
January 4, 2021: 2.128 million viewers
January 11, 2021: 1.819 million viewers
January 18, 2021: 1.854 million viewers
January 25, 2021: 1.819 million viewers 
February 1, 2021: 1.892 million viewers 
February 8, 2021: 1.715 million viewers 
February 15, 2021: 1.810 million viewers 
February 22, 2021: 1.889 million viewers 
March 1, 2021: 1.884 million viewers 
March 8, 2021: 1.896 million viewers 
March 15, 2021: 1.843 million viewers 
March 22, 2021: 1.816 million viewers 
March 29, 2021: 1.701 million viewers 
April 5, 2021: 1.701 million viewers 
April 12, 2021: 2.026 million viewers 
April 19, 2021: 1.907 million viewers 
April 26, 2021: 1.774 million viewers 
May 3, 2021: 1.872 million viewers 
May 10, 2021: 1.817 million viewers 
May 17, 2021: 1.823 million viewers 
May 24, 2021: 1.62 million viewers 
May 31, 2021 1.557 million viewers (Originally reported as 1.418 million viewers) 
June 7, 2021: 1.64 million viewers 
June 14, 2021: 1.742 million viewers 
June 21, 2021: 1.719 million viewers 
June 28, 2021: 1.57 million viewers


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Comparing the last 7 weeks of 2021 to the corresponding weeks in 2020:

May 17, 2021: 1.823 million viewers 
May 24, 2021: 1.62 million viewers 
May 31, 2021 1.557 million viewers (Originally reported as 1.418 million viewers) 
June 7, 2021: 1.64 million viewers 
June 14, 2021: 1.742 million viewers 
June 21, 2021: 1.719 million viewers 
June 28, 2021: 1.57 million viewers 


May 18, 2020: 1.757 million viewers
May 25, 2020: 1.735 million viewers
June 1, 2020: 1.728 million viewers
June 8, 2020: 1.737 million viewers
June 15, 2020: 1.938 million viewers
June 22, 2020: 1.922 million viewers
June 29, 2020: 1.735 million viewers


----------



## HypemanPinky

Do ratings even matter that much anymore though? Besides to the individual channels?


----------



## Zappers

HypemanPinky said:


> Do ratings even matter that much anymore though? Besides to the individual channels?


Well, that's kinda the point. It means a great deal to those channels.

To the us the fans? No, I don't think so. It's just a way to armchair "judge" (and complain/justify)if the product is doing well or not. But it's only part of the equation.


----------



## Charzhino

1.47 million. All time low


----------



## Chelsea

Well deserved. Nothing really happens on this show, it's just the same shit every single week.

I don't remember Raw being this bad before the pandemic started. There was some decent stuff in late 2019/early 2020.


----------



## The XL 2

Lmao, holy shit. They're not even that far ahead of AEW anymore, AEW could probably hype and hotshot a show that gets close to that number. It almost seems unfathomable that their was once upon a time where 8+ million, hell, even 10+ million people a week at the peak of the Monday Night Wars were watching wrestling on Monday nights. Even just 7 years ago in 2014, Raw led by Batista and Daniel Bryan would routinely do well over 4 million viewers. They're well below 2000 Nitro and TNA levels now. They're barely above what ECW was doing in 2000 with a graveyard time slot and no promotion.


----------



## Cooper09

This time next year Raw is going to struggle to get 900k. Anyone willing to pay a Billion for Raw next rights deal needs to be sectioned.


----------



## InexorableJourney

USA Network is very unhappy about the Hell in a Cell...


SD's ratings are very, very close to RAW's ratings these days. How pathetic is that? If you were Smackdown you’d probably be pretty proud of yourself




www.wrestlingforum.com







InexorableJourney said:


> USA Network is losing about 20% viewership per year. This would put RAW viewership at about 1.4 million for June 2022.


Quoting myself. I thought it would take one full year for viewership to get this low, I've surprised myself, as it's only been 19 days ago.


----------



## DaSlacker

The XL 2 said:


> Lmao, holy shit. They're not even that far ahead of AEW anymore, AEW could probably hype and hotshot a show that gets close to that number. It almost seems unfathomable that their was once upon a time where 8+ million, hell, even 10+ million people a week at the peak of the Monday Night Wars were watching wrestling on Monday nights. Even just 7 years ago in 2014, Raw led by Batista and Daniel Bryan would routinely do well over 4 million viewers. They're well below 2000 Nitro and TNA levels now. They're barely above what ECW was doing in 2000 with a graveyard time slot and no promotion.


Think of it like this. They're down to under 1.5 million with most of the Raw roster on there. Last night had a tag match featuring the WWE champion versus his challenger at the PPV. Last week had a triple threat featuring two former world champions and the new star in the making. In terms of matches they keep giving all their shit away. Yet the ratings are either stagnant or dropping. 

Truly a brand and product with no way to turn things around. Return of live crowds, a few appearances from Cena, and Becky, will be like sticking a plaster on a bleeding artery.


----------



## Kentucky34

Emmanuelle said:


> Well deserved. Nothing really happens on this show, it's just the same shit every single week.
> 
> I don't remember Raw being this bad before the pandemic started. There was some decent stuff in late 2019/early 2020.


Early 2020 was the last golden period for RAW. 

Seth Rollins beat Lebron James and the NBA in January. 

Shame they ruined everything by putting the belt on Drew.


----------



## Serpico Jones

This once great company has become an embarrassment.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Christ ...how bad will it get when football comes back ?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

One of the worst shows on TV that's been bad longer than it was ever good does poorly. No surprise.


----------



## DammitChrist

This is probably just me, but I find it interesting how Raw starts getting lower ratings right when I feel like the show has improved (slightly at least) since Hell in a Cell  

They really need to book consistently good shows for several months in order to prevent the decline. They can’t really afford to be inconsistent atm.


----------



## Seafort

Botchy SinCara said:


> Christ ...how bad will it get when football comes back ?


1.3M to 1.11M


----------



## Kentucky34

Only one guy on the roster can save Raw. 










Other than that just push Riddle to the moon.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Kofi Kingston lmao, I mean what the fuck do you expect.


----------



## Prosper

1.47? Damn. Is that overall average or just 3rd hour?


----------



## MrMeeseeks

Damn kofi in the main event is drawing like a motherfucker put the geek where he belongs


----------



## Kishido

Lol


----------



## Serpico Jones

Prosper said:


> 1.47? Damn. Is that overall average or just 3rd hour?


Overall.


----------



## Randy Lahey

1.47 vs no competition is really really bad. When Raw goes up vs MNF I’d expect Dynamite should be even with them at that point.


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> 1.47 vs no competition is really really bad. When Raw goes up vs MNF I’d expect Dynamite should be even with them at that point.


Don't get too excited just yet. It was the day after July 4th weekend - viewership often takes a hit on that day. Plus it is summer. AEW deserves more but is still struggling to hit 900,000 every week and Wednesday night still isn't a great night for wrestling. Additionally, it is mid week after two other live wrestling shows so has that to contend with. 

If WWE keeps resting on its laurels and AEW keeps doing what it's doing + bringing in the occasional new guy/girl. Then I think they'll be neck and neck by June 2023. Depending on how the move to TBS goes.


----------



## AboutDatBiz619

Serpico Jones said:


> Overall.


They desperately need to axe the third hour and make the time slot 8 PM to 10 pm ET or the old school 9 PM until 11 PM. NXT and Smackdown are both 2 hours, don't see why RAW can't. The issue with 3 hours is there's too much filler on between.


----------



## Seafort

1.609 million viewers


----------



## henrymark

Seafort said:


> 1.609 million viewers


I think it'll float anywhere from around 1.8 to 1.4 for a while. As cool as it would be to see it dip below 1 million I'n not sure we'll get there just yet. A lot of people are somehow still entertained by this rubbish.


----------



## Dark Emperor

It will go up at least 200k, maybe more next week. The crowds will make a big difference for the next few weeks. It's then up to them to retain the viewers.

I know its the cool thing on here to say how terrible the show is, but i actually think Raw in the last month or so has been pretty good. 

RKBro is legit entertaining, and now the best thing on all brands imo. 
Eva Marie and Piper is intriguing. Love Piper's facials! 
Lashley & Kofi feud is interesting to me, they actually build a nice story. 

It's not always as terrible as people claim. If you skip the ads its an easy watch unlike a few months back, i'm rarely skipping stuff except when it comes to Natalya tag stuff or Alexa Bliss rubbish.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dark Emperor said:


> It will go up at least 200k, maybe more next week. The crowds will make a big difference for the next few weeks. It's then up to them to retain the viewers.
> 
> I know its the cool thing on here to say how terrible the show is, but i actually think Raw in the last month or so has been pretty good.
> 
> RKBro is legit entertaining, and now the best thing on all brands imo.
> Eva Marie and Piper is intriguing. Love Piper's facials!
> Lashley & Kofi feud is interesting to me, they actually build a nice story.
> 
> It's not always as terrible as people claim. If you skip the ads its an easy watch unlike a few months back, i'm rarely skipping stuff except when it comes to Natalya tag stuff or Alexa Bliss rubbish.


Yea, I think the show has improved to a nice extent since Hell in a Cell.

I don't think Raw is as badly inconsistent as it was before Hell in a Cell.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Goldberg finna swoop in and get em back to 2 mil


----------



## SparrowPrime

They didn't even get to 2 mill with Cena and Goldberg. Haha 😄😄


----------



## .christopher.

SparrowPrime said:


> They didn't even get to 2 mill with Cena and Goldberg. Haha 😄😄


Really?!


----------



## DaSlacker

1.92 million and 0.57 demo. 

Live audience, Cena return, Goldberg return, Lee return, Kross debut, MITB cash in, Charlotte vs Ripley, exciting six man tag opener. Guess that's WWE's ceiling on cable TV thesedays. 

Had more younger guys than usual watching. So they put NXT's hottest prospects in their place, book Goldberg to soon lose another big match and have Cena do nothing of note except try to force a feud with Reigns.


----------



## .christopher.

I've never agreed with Cena being a draw, but that's bad. That decade plus of causing nothing but long term damage to the business and, after being away for how long, he can't even pop a decent rating.

He's very lucky Roman came along to do an even worse job as that's helping make light of how shit he wasm


----------



## Dark Emperor

SparrowPrime said:


> They didn't even get to 2 mill with Cena and Goldberg. Haha 😄😄


1.92m is good for a 3hr hour show on cable by 2021 standards.
Watch them be Number 1,2 & 3. I'm not sure what you people are expecting. They had a 300k+ bump from last week and almost 500k increase from 2 weeks ago.


----------



## dcruz

Are y'all serious? That's not bad at all 💀


----------



## FearTheBliss

Dark Emperor said:


> 1.92m is good for a 3hr hour show on cable by 2021 standards.
> Watch them be Number 1,2 & 3. I'm not sure what you people are expecting. They had a 300k+ bump from last week and almost 500k increase from 2 weeks ago.


true but I think some people was thinking once fans was back they would be over 2 million again but fails to see before covid shut everything they was getting close to falling under 2 million anyway so no shock to me 1.9 is actally good for a tv show these days on cable tv.


----------



## .christopher.

dcruz said:


> Are y'all serious? That's not bad at all 💀


Hell yeah it's bad. Can't even get 2m with all that shit going on/advertised. Wasn't so long ago they were between 4-5m for average, nothing of note RAWs.

Shit is sinking fast.


----------



## FearTheBliss

.christopher. said:


> Hell yeah it's bad. Can't even get 2m with all that shit going on/advertised. Wasn't so long ago they were between 4-5m for average, nothing of note RAWs.
> 
> Shit is sinking fast.


people stream stuff these days you people need to realize this.the days Raw getting ratings like the good ole days are gone cable tv is a dying brand and streaming is the future.


----------



## .christopher.

FearTheBliss said:


> people stream stuff these days you people need to realize this.the days Raw getting ratings like the good ole days are gone cable tv is a dying brand and streaming is the future.


It was the same back when they were getting over twice as many viewers.

The only thing that's changing is more and more people are stopping watching because they're realising it's not going to get any better.

This time next year they'll be in AEW territory. Happy to be getting a million.


----------



## JTB33b

Remember when Raw was getting ratings in the low 3's and we thought that was horrible?


----------



## FearTheBliss

.christopher. said:


> It was the same back when they were getting over twice as many viewers.
> 
> The only thing that's changing is more and more people are stopping watching because they're realising it's not going to get any better.
> 
> This time next year they'll be in AEW territory. Happy to be getting a million.


people has not stop watching they just watch in diffrent ways and follow it in diffrent ways like Social media its always active whenever WWE is on.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

JTB33b said:


> Remember when Raw was getting ratings in the low 3's and we thought that was horrible?


Sure do. Vince would KILL for those numbers now.  It's official. No one in WWE (and wrestling, in general) is a draw, including the part-timers. Wow!


----------



## FearTheBliss

JTB33b said:


> Remember when Raw was getting ratings in the low 3's and we thought that was horrible?


yeah back when Cable Tv was a big deal now its all about streaming.


----------



## FearTheBliss

Showstopper said:


> Sure do. Vince would KILL for those numbers now.  It's official. No one in WWE (and wrestling, in general) is a draw, including the part-timers. Wow!


Vince don't give a shit about ratings anymore he racking in the money from peacock and Fox and the blood money deal.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FearTheBliss said:


> Vince don't give a shit about ratings anymore he racking in the money from peacock and Fox and the blood money deal.


He cares. He has a huge ego. There's a reason Stephanie had a meeting a couple weeks back with FOX/USA about ways to bring some more viewers back.


----------



## AboutDatBiz619

Thought for sure they would crack 2 million. This just goes to show you nobody wants to watch 3 hours


----------



## Dark Emperor

You people are not serious. Have you seen the average audience that watch wrestling Live. Its in the 50's. Even the young and hip AEW has an average age around 48.

Then look the Live crowds and social media. The average age of those people are nowhere near 50. This shows that majority of young people are watching in other ways.

Ratings will continue to go down no matter how much the shows improves. You guys dont get it. Cable is a dying medium. Unless its Live sports or a red hot TV show (very few of these), every other show ratings are downwards.

A bump equivalent to 20% is not bad lol. People aint gonna watch all 3 hrs cus Cena showed up at the start.


----------



## DaSlacker

FearTheBliss said:


> yeah back when Cable Tv was a big deal now its all about streaming.


They were getting over 3 million viewers regularly in 2018 and did some decent numbers on 2019, when Heyman first started.


----------



## Dark Emperor

FearTheBliss said:


> Vince don't give a shit about ratings anymore he racking in the money from peacock and Fox and the blood money deal.


Exactly, i wonder how many of these people that takes the ratings so seriously actually watch the weekly wrestling shows live themselves. I sure don't but i always get round to it eventually at my convenience as i can easily skip ads. Only PPV's are worth watching live for wrestling.

Vince keeps getting bigger deals and making more money than ever whilst haters continue to laugh at falling TV ratings in 2021 .


----------



## DammitChrist

Okay, where was THIS argument regarding different viewership habits and online streams/DVR for the other company?


----------



## justin waynes

.christopher. said:


> I've never agreed with Cena being a draw, but that's bad. That decade plus of causing nothing but long term damage to the business and, after being away for how long, he can't even pop a decent rating.
> 
> He's very lucky Roman came along to do an even worse job as that's helping make light of how shit he wasm


Cena isn't a draw? And roman the overrated chef is? Not even stonecold or prime hogan can boost the rating in 2021 except good storyline which won't do much


----------



## Dark Emperor

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, where was THIS argument regarding different viewership habits and online streams/DVR for the other company?


This is the Raw ratings thread. AEW wrestlers and fans make a big deal out of the ratings so it is taking more seriously on that section. But to a lesser extent, you can use that argument also they only just started out

A bit of perspective tho. WWE have $1.3bn deal for Raw, $1bn deal for Smackdown, $1bn+ deal for Peacock, $20m per Saudi Show. This is before you count international network sales & Tv deals, Live tickets sales and everything else. All this achieved over the years whilst TV ratings constantly declined. But everyone mocks them as if they are loss making and everyone has tuned out.

Check the social media numbers on Cena's return or Vince clip from Smackdown then come back and say not that many people are watching / following the show.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Can't get above 2million with goldberg...or Cena...that's pretty terrible ..like really bad and even after the fallout from mitb


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Dark Emperor said:


> This is the Raw ratings thread. AEW wrestlers and fans make a big deal out of the ratings so it is taking more seriously on that section. But to a lesser extent, you can use that argument also they only just started out
> 
> A bit of perspective tho. WWE have $1.3bn deal for Raw, $1bn deal for Smackdown, $1bn+ deal for Peacock, $20m per Saudi Show. This is before you count international network sales & Tv deals, Live tickets sales and everything else. All this achieved over the years whilst TV ratings constantly declined. But everyone mocks them as if they are loss making and everyone has tuned out.
> 
> Check the social media numbers on Cena's return or Vince clip from Smackdown then come back and say not that many people are watching / following the show.


Social media numbers is a terrible indicator of who is watching 

It's easy to like a clip showing up on fb or Twitter. Harder to sit through 2-3 hours


----------



## The Boy Wonder

On RAW they need more segments and shorter matches. They tend to give every match a commercial break. That just drives viewers away.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Dark Emperor said:


> This is the Raw ratings thread. AEW wrestlers and fans make a big deal out of the ratings so it is taking more seriously on that section. But to a lesser extent, you can use that argument also they only just started out
> 
> A bit of perspective tho. WWE have $1.3bn deal for Raw, $1bn deal for Smackdown, $1bn+ deal for Peacock, $20m per Saudi Show. This is before you count international network sales & Tv deals, Live tickets sales and everything else. All this achieved over the years whilst TV ratings constantly declined. But everyone mocks them as if they are loss making and everyone has tuned out.
> 
> Check the social media numbers on Cena's return or Vince clip from Smackdown then come back and say not that many people are watching / following the show.


And you are straight deluding yourself if you think they will get another deal remotely close to those figures with these numbers. Steph isn't being called into have a little chat with corporate because they are thrilled with sub 2 million viewers.


----------



## Kentucky34

Only two years ago Seth Rollins was drawing over 2.5 million viewers with no help from the part-timers.

What happened?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Kentucky34 said:


> Only two years ago Seth Rollins was drawing over 2.5 million viewers with no help from the part-timers.
> 
> What happened?


Didn't he have Becky Lynch on the show with him? She was actually booked like the top star on RAW.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's clear that USA aren't happy with the show Steph and HHH are booking, why else would they call her in?

But eh, RAW got the same bump SD and Dynamite got with crowds back, that's still nearly an increase of half a million fans.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Still under 2mil for a live show, first return of fans, Cena/Goldberg. That is a terrible number. They'll be back to 1.6 and under by the time football season starts.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

1.92 with Cena and Goldberg returning, coming off of MITB probably the 4th or 5th biggest PPV of the year (argument that MITB > Survivor Series), hyped for a Becky return. Sorry this is awful. I expected AT LEAST 2.2 Million but really expected 2.3 if not 2.4 Mil.


----------



## Fearless Viper

WF experts are at it again lol.


----------



## Deathiscoming

They deserved it. And not in the sense that the show was good. A bunch of parttimers from ruthless aggression era returning doesn't wipe out two decades of bad booking and incompetence. Can't wait for the viewership to drop back to 1.6 and eventually fall below 1.5M viewers. That, they fully deserve.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Let's just put into perspective that it took John Cena and Goldberg rumors with a post PPV boost to bring RAW to LOW SmackDown numbers.*


----------



## Kentucky34

The Boy Wonder said:


> Didn't he have Becky Lynch on the show with him? She was actually booked like the top star on RAW.


No.

Seth was the show's biggest star after Summerslam 2019. He was on fire!

Then Fiend debuted and ruined it.

Seth then turned heel and helped RAW beat Lebron James and the NBA in January of 2020.

They then ruined that by pushing McIntyre to the moon. They haven't recovered since.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Boy Wonder said:


> On RAW they need more segments and shorter matches. They tend to give every match a commercial break. That just drives viewers away.


I mean I agree but how many meaningful segments can you run with a brand split and having to fill 3 hours?


----------



## The XL 2

FearTheBliss said:


> people stream stuff these days you people need to realize this.the days Raw getting ratings like the good ole days are gone cable tv is a dying brand and streaming is the future.


No one is streaming Raw. They might watch bits and pieces on YouTube. The numbers are down because the product is awful


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Fearless Viper said:


> WF experts are at it again lol.


Exactly all they see is the below 2 million and go on about how it's a terrible number while ignoring that they saw a gain of 400k viewers. I what universe is gaining nearly half a million viewers not a good thing?


----------



## Serpico Jones

McMahon doesn’t give a shit about ratings anymore.


----------



## fabi1982

ShadowCounter said:


> And you are straight deluding yourself if you think they will get another deal remotely close to those figures with these numbers. Steph isn't being called into have a little chat with corporate because they are thrilled with sub 2 million viewers.


Thats funny as people said the same thing regarding the last two deals and as you can see they increased with each new deal. And did you speak to the network or Stephanie herself? No, you just read some dirtsheet from those poeple trying to make money themselves and you know what? They wouldnt make money with „yeah basically everything is fine“. But hey, as it is your opinion, it must be true, right?


----------



## sideon

Until they go back to 2 hours this is going to be the norm for RAW, because a 3 hour show means you're going to have at least 45mins worth of useless filler. Sadly this means that they're going to raid the Smackdown roster come draft time like they did last year.


----------



## KingofKings1524

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's clear that USA aren't happy with the show Steph and HHH are booking, why else would they call her in?
> 
> But eh, RAW got the same bump SD and Dynamite got with crowds back, that's still nearly an increase of half a million fans.


Why do you keep insisting that HHH and Stephanie are booking these shows? You really think that Hunter brought Kross up without Scarlett and had him lose in two minutes to Jeff Hardy? Hell no. Every single week there are reports of Vince taking scripts from creative, tearing them up and rewriting the whole damn thing himself an hour before the show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

KingofKings1524 said:


> Why do you keep insisting that HHH and Stephanie are booking these shows? You really think that Hunter brought Kross up without Scarlett and had him lose in two minutes to Jeff Hardy? Hell no. Every single week there are reports of Vince taking scripts from creative, tearing them up and rewriting the whole damn thing himself an hour before the show.


Because the formula and structure of the show isn't Vince's style, Vince has never in his life been a match mark kind of guy, he's never been huge on the long matches on TV unless it was necessary to the storyline, all the shows have a similar structure nowadays, it's the same one that they've had on NXT for years and have now been slowly adopted onto RAW and SD over the last few years.
Maybe HHH and Stephanie aren't fully in control, but they've 100% influenced Vince and changed the way he books shows.


----------



## Dark Emperor

ShadowCounter said:


> And you are straight deluding yourself if you think they will get another deal remotely close to those figures with these numbers. Steph isn't being called into have a little chat with corporate because they are thrilled with sub 2 million viewers.


How much truth do we know about that Steph story. I'm guessing all the other TV shows execs are being dragged to the office to explain themselves too as almost all TV ratings are falling.

I can guarantee you they will get a bigger deal than their current deal. It just likely won't be on traditional cable.

Have you seen how much streaming companies are paying to differentiate themselves from the pack? Whether you like it or not, the WWE brand is very valuable and they will easily get more least $200m a yr for 52 episodes (current rate). That is cheap for a load of unique content all year round.

The funny thing is we had the same argument on here around 4 years ago when ratings were sliding and we were told the TV money would be dropped. They ended up more than doubling them. Its a changing landscape, get with the times.


----------



## Charzhino

They will forever be stuck at 2million viewers and its not even about the talent or booking now. The way the show has been presented for years and years has killed real fan interest returning. The commentary, the lighting, the comedy, the camerawork, the ring entrances, the goofiness, the stage design, the graphics, the generic RAW theme music, all adds up subconsciously into how an average fan views the product and the product has changed too much visually/audibly from when they last remembered it being good. Thats a huge psycholgoical barrier to overcome before we even talk about talent and booking. At this point only a complete revamp will save them.


----------



## FearTheBliss

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, where was THIS argument regarding different viewership habits and online streams/DVR for the other company?


it would be the same for AEW aswell more people I have no doubt are watching them aswell just in diffrent ways that don't show up on the outdated cable ratings chart.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Because the formula and structure of the show isn't Vince's style, Vince has never in his life been a match mark kind of guy, he's never been huge on the long matches on TV unless it was necessary to the storyline, all the shows have a similar structure nowadays, it's the same one that they've had on NXT for years and have now been slowly adopted onto RAW and SD over the last few years.
> Maybe HHH and Stephanie aren't fully in control, but they've 100% influenced Vince and changed the way he books shows.


*This is ridiculous speculation. RAW is booked NOTHING like NXT. You really don't know anything about Triple H if you think he would sabotage Rhea and Kross like this after working so hard to build them.*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is ridiculous speculation. RAW is booked NOTHING like NXT. You really don't know anything about Triple H if you think he would sabotage Rhea and Kross like this after working so hard to build them.*


Sabotage lol what a load of hyperbole.


----------



## DaSlacker

They increased the match length for Raw once they went 3 hours. Hence why in 2013 there was a really good series of matches involving Bryan, Shield, Orton etc. Everything else you see is a symptom of how lazy they have become due to increasingly huge TV fees. For years SmackDown has used the same format. 3-5 matches of decent length, couple of promos and an angle.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Sabotage lol what a load of hyperbole.


*What show are you watching? In what way was Rhea set up for success after WrestleMania? How did it help Kross to strip him naked and expose him as the generic CAW he is?*


----------



## rich110991

People who say Vince doesn’t care about the ratings are kidding themselves. Will he care when we get to a point where RAW and Dynamite are both drawing 1 mil? Or when Dynamite goes above that


----------



## holy

Not being able to reach 2 million viewers despite...
-The return of John Cena
-A widely appreciated (atleast on social media) MITB PPV the night before
-The return of Goldberg
-The return of live crowds

Surely, when Cena and Goldberg leave again this Fall, when that feel-good factor of live crowds goes away, and when MNF starts again, Raw will see all-time record-low viewership again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

First Smackdown has a disappointing number Friday, and now Raw has an even more disappointing number arguably considering the return of Cena being advertised right off the hype from the end of MITB.


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, where was THIS argument regarding different viewership habits and online streams/DVR for the other company?


Mmm it's there. You, and a few others literally use is as an excuse any time AEW does a bad rating.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> Mmm it's there. You, and a few others literally use is as an excuse any time AEW does a bad rating.


No, I meant that he seems to dismiss that "excuse" (which is actually a valid reason) in the AEW Ratings thread, but yet that gets used on the threads on here.

I never outright dismissed those valid metrics on here.


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> No, I meant that he seems to dismiss that "excuse" (which is actually a valid reason) in the AEW Ratings thread, but yet that gets used on the threads on here.
> 
> I never outright dismissed those valid metrics on here.


Ahhh I get ya.


----------



## FITZ

.christopher. said:


> It was the same back when they were getting over twice as many viewers.
> 
> The only thing that's changing is more and more people are stopping watching because they're realising it's not going to get any better.
> 
> This time next year they'll be in AEW territory. Happy to be getting a million.


As Their Ratings Drop, TV Networks Fault Nielsen. Media Researchers Weigh In

It's an interesting read, but in short everything is down. WWE might be down more than the average (which I think they are) but everything has been in a steady decline for years. 

WWE does have a problem because they seem to be doing worse than other people. Like they're down 33% from a couple years ago when the NBA is down 25%. The WWE's numbers though are a lot less of a disaster than they appear to be.


----------



## llj

FITZ said:


> As Their Ratings Drop, TV Networks Fault Nielsen. Media Researchers Weigh In
> 
> It's an interesting read, but in short everything is down. WWE might be down more than the average (which I think they are) but everything has been in a steady decline for years.
> 
> WWE does have a problem because they seem to be doing worse than other people. Like they're down 33% from a couple years ago when the NBA is down 25%. The WWE's numbers though are a lot less of a disaster than they appear to be.


This is exactly it. People always point to TV decline as the fault, but the WWE is declining faster than most other programming. 

There's clearly something about the product that isn't holding its audience as well as other shows.


----------



## ClintDagger

Charzhino said:


> They will forever be stuck at 2million viewers and its not even about the talent or booking now. The way the show has been presented for years and years has killed real fan interest returning. The commentary, the lighting, the comedy, the camerawork, the ring entrances, the goofiness, the stage design, the graphics, the generic RAW theme music, all adds up subconsciously into how an average fan views the product and the product has changed too much visually/audibly from when they last remembered it being good. Thats a huge psycholgoical barrier to overcome before we even talk about talent and booking. At this point only a complete revamp will save them.


They would kill to be able to stick at 2MM. They will continue to consistently drop until they reach a level where it’s no
longer viable for them to appear prime time on major cable or broadcast tv. At that point WWE programming will move 100% behind a pay wall.

WWE will probably not completely die off, at least not in the next 10-20 years, but it will cease to exist as it has come to be known for the last 35+ years. At some point in the fairly near future WWE won’t be found on cable and will probably cease to be a multi times weekly live event product.


----------



## TheDraw

rich110991 said:


> People who say Vince doesn’t care about the ratings are kidding themselves. Will he care when we get to a point where RAW and Dynamite are both drawing 1 mil? Or when Dynamite goes above that


Never thought I'd say his but I just watched Raw highlights and if they don't change something drastically soon I could see AEW drawing higher ratings sooner rather than later.

They are getting Punk and Bryan. Those are two guys that WWE fans love to death.

Nobody is gonna wanna watch these lifeless, dull WWE shows when those guys are on AEW TV drawing interest. WWE shows today look like a damn play.


----------



## DaSlacker

1.814 million viewers and 0.49 demo.


----------



## DanTheMan077

They need to move Kevin Owens to RAW and make him champion ASAP.


----------



## chronoxiong

RAW didnt air in its original time slot in the West Coast this week. I dont even know what time it aired as I was still working. Came back home and the Olympics was on USA. Wonder if that played a part in the viewership this week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Olympics is on. Don't see any wrestling show maintaining numbers they had last week over the next two weeks.


----------



## Charzhino

So only around 600k of the 1.8million are 18-49. It bedazzles my mind that Raw, a childish show is watched predominantly by the over 50s demographic.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Charzhino said:


> So only around 600k of the 1.8million are 18-49. It bedazzles my mind that Raw, a childish show is watched predominantly by the over 50s demographic.


It bedazzles me too. But at least we know most people who watch a product saturated with women's wrestling and kiddy crap are in their 50s and not the young adult male demographic. So may be it's not so bedazzling after all.


----------



## SPCDRI

18-49 isn't even the entire story with pro wrestling because when you think about it, that's a really big age range of 31 years. Its way more weighted to the 30s and 40s than the teens and 20s. The younger side is all people in their 30s and 40s who liked WWE 20 years ago or more as children and young adults. That's the protypical smark now, somebody in his or her 30s to early 40s who liked RAW between the years of around 1990s to 2006ish.


----------



## Rozzop

Charzhino said:


> So only around 600k of the 1.8million are 18-49. It bedazzles my mind that Raw, a childish show is watched predominantly by the over 50s demographic.


The over 50s are the ones watching cable.


----------



## llj

No kids seem to willingly watch WWE on their own. It's usually their middle aged parents who grew up on AE still bringing them to house shows and PPVs


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Rozzop said:


> The over 50s are the ones watching cable.


That could be part of it, but even when comparing 2000 to 2006 the average age of a viewer grew by 5 years.

----> The Average Age Of Wrestling Fans Is A Lot Older Than It Used To Be



> Looking at the numbers, they show that back at the turn of the century *in 2000 the median age of pro wrestling fans was 28* (the youngest of all the sports they were able to get stats for). *In 2006 the median age was 33*


That points to the idea WWE's rartings were being held up by existing fans.

P.S. A person can watch WWE RAW on Hulu with less than one day delay. I wonder how much of the viewing this accounts for?


----------



## Rozzop

TheTomBradyofwwefans said:


> That could be part of it, but even when comparing 2000 to 2006 the average age of a viewer grew by 5 years.
> 
> ----> The Average Age Of Wrestling Fans Is A Lot Older Than It Used To Be
> 
> 
> 
> That points to the idea WWE's rartings were being held up by existing fans.
> 
> P.S. A person can watch WWE RAW on Hulu with less than one day delay. I wonder how much of the viewing this accounts for?


But how do they know what little Johnny is watching for example?

Say Dad is watching, his son could be watching with him. His dad might not be watching at all and his son is all alone in the room watching.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Rozzop said:


> But how do they know what little Johnny is watching for example?
> 
> Say Dad is watching, his son could be watching with him. His dad might not be watching at all and his son is all alone in the room watching.


 Neilsen keeps track of the young viewers too:

----> TV Viewing Among Kids at an Eight-Year High


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Rozzop said:


> The over 50s are the ones watching cable.


Smackdown ratings did substantially increase when they switched to FOX (Broadcast TV) vs. USA (cable network)....although I wonder how many of those people watching FOX are using an antennae vs. having the most basic cable?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

These numbers aren't great, but they still destroy AEW with EASE, even with a third hour.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> These numbers aren't great, but they still destroy AEW with EASE, even with a third hour.


Yeah, a company that has been in this business for 41 years is besting a 1 and 3/4th year old company by a few hundred thousand viewers. Nothing to worry about there.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Yeah, a company that has been in this business for 41 years is besting a 1 and 3/4th year old company by a few hundred thousand viewers. Nothing to worry about there.


They're beating them by a million or slightly less. More than a "few". And the ages of the companies mean nothing. If you get hot, you get hot, no matter how long the company has been around.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> They're beating them by a million or slightly less. More than a "few". And the ages of the companies mean nothing. If you get hot, you get hot, no matter how long the company has been around.


Uh, no. It was 700,000 this week. AEW just scored a 1.1 million. Less than 4 weeks ago Raw scored a 1.4. That's 300,000. This is way closer than you realize. Punk and Bryan debut and NFL starts and we could see AEW take the lead some weeks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Uh, no. It was 700,000 this week. AEW just scored a 1.1 million. Less than 4 weeks ago Raw scored a 1.4. That's 300,000. This is way closer than you realize. Punk and Bryan debut and NFL starts and we could see AEW take the lead some weeks.


Um, yes. 700K isn't a "few hundred thousand", that would be 300K. And now you're using numbers from RAW from a month ago, and Dynamite's number from this week. Lame.

As someone pointed out to me awhile ago, RAW's numbers are pretty much what they are these days, NFL or not.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> Um, yes. 700K isn't a "few hundred thousand", that would be 300K. And now you're using numbers from RAW from a month ago, and Dynamite's number from this week. Lame.
> 
> As someone pointed out to me awhile ago, RAW's numbers are pretty much what they are these days, NFL or not.


AEW's numbers are on the rise mainly cause they are putting on a good consistent product. Cena and live crowds gave Raw a shot in the arm and they've done everything since to squander it. Do you honestly believe Raw's numbers aren't gonna go cratering back down with the repeat bonanza they've been putting on week after week? That 1.4 from a month ago is gonna start looking real good pretty soon if they keep this up.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> AEW's numbers are on the rise mainly cause they are putting on a good consistent product. Cena and live crowds gave Raw a shot in the arm and they've done everything since to squander it. Do you honestly believe Raw's numbers aren't gonna go cratering back down with the repeat bonanza they've been putting on week after week? That 1.4 from a month ago is gonna start looking real good pretty soon if they keep this up.


You realize everything you posted here is your opinion, and not actual fact, right? AEW fans throw a party when AEW hits a million viewers. It's kind of sad, friend. You also seem pretty angry at all of this. Why? Don't worry. I'm sure AEW will sign some more ex-WWE'ers in the near future.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> You realize everything you posted here is your opinion, and not actual fact, right? AEW fans throw a party when AEW hits a million viewers. It's kind of sad, friend. You also seem pretty angry at all of this. Why? Don't worry. I'm sure AEW will sign some more ex-WWE'ers in the near future.


Why do you WWE marks always go to that tired trope? Yes, I must be upset or angry for presenting an analysis based off trend lines and history. It's sad and quite frankly lazy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Why do you WWE marks always go to that tired trope? Yes, I must be upset or angry for presenting an analysis based off trend lines and history. It's sad and quite frankly lazy.


"WWE mark"? Yeah, you're right. No anger at all. Better than being an AEW cultist. _shrug_


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> "WWE mark"? Yeah, you're right. No anger at all. Better than being an AEW cultist. _shrug_


Where did I say I was even a AEW fan? Why? Because I have a positive view of their future based on their and WWE's history? Meanwhile you are going out of your way to insult me because I didn't agree with your WWE is untouchable argument while sporting a user name and picture that is a WWE staple. WWE mark isn't an off the wall assumption.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> Don't worry. I'm sure AEW will sign some more ex-WWE'ers in the near future.


That's not a bad thing. WWE had a boom period based around ex-WCW'ers who Bischoff didn't want or didn't use correctly: Austin, Foley, Levesque, Wight, Jericho, James, Waltman, Regal, Bossman, Simmons, Rhodes... 

Their loss is AEWs gain.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Where did I say I was even a AEW fan? Why? Because I have a positive view of their future based on their and WWE's history? Meanwhile you are going out of your way to insult me because I didn't agree with your WWE is untouchable argument while sporting a user name and picture that is a WWE staple. WWE mark isn't an off the wall assumption.


Hey, you quoted my post first looking to pick a fight. That's not on me. And yeah, you're not fooling anyone, pal. I can't even say 'good try' to you. Wish I could, but nah.



DaSlacker said:


> That's not a bad thing. WWE had a boom period based around ex-WCW'ers who Bischoff didn't want or didn't use correctly: Austin, Foley, Levesque, Wight, Jericho, James, Waltman, Regal, Bossman, Simmons, Rhodes...
> 
> Their loss is AEWs gain.


All of those guys were midcarders at best in WCW, though. They weren't former multi time world champions such as Punk or Bryan. And WWE was moving towards a boom before most of those guys were even in WWE, led by Austin and Rock.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> Hey, you quoted my post first looking to pick a fight. That's not on me. And yeah, you're not fooling anyone, pal. I can't even say 'good try' to you. Wish I could, but nah.


By simply pointing out the numbers. Sure.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> By simply pointing out the numbers. Sure.


Not just that, but there was some smartass'dness to it too with the smiley and whatnot. I agree the numbers tell the story. Lets not even get into SD.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> Hey, you quoted my post first looking to pick a fight. That's not on me. And yeah, you're not fooling anyone, pal. I can't even say 'good try' to you. Wish I could, but nah.
> 
> 
> 
> All of those guys were midcarders at best in WCW, though. They weren't former multi time world champions such as Punk or Bryan. And WWE was moving towards a boom before most of those guys were even in WWE, led by Austin and Rock.


You could compare Punk and Bryan coming in to Hogan and Savage in 1994, or Nash and Hall in 1996, in WCW. Either way they still have more to give. 

Miro, Andrade, Black coming in is comparable to Austin and co coming to WWE in the mid 90's. I mean I don't even consider the latter two as 'WWE guys' because I knew of them before they entered NXT.

Below that you have Ethan Page, Hangman, Darby, MJF, Starks, Guevara etc. Ones they've poached from smaller companies that have TV deals. 

Below that you have the likes of Hobbs, Ogogo, Private Party, Wardlow. True unknowns.

So there's a best of both worlds thing going on here and finally living up to the All Elite Wrestling moniker. What I like about it conpared to WWE is they aren't randomly jobbing them out like Kross and Lee were. It's not too common to see the ones I've listed get pinned or submitted, so the individual talent has some momentum and meaning


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> You could compare Punk and Bryan coming in to Hogan and Savage in 1994, or Nash and Hall in 1996, in WCW. Either way they still have more to give.
> 
> Miro, Andrade, Black coming in is comparable to Austin and co coming to WWE in the mid 90's. I mean I don't even consider the latter two as 'WWE guys' because I knew of them before they entered NXT.
> 
> Below that you have Ethan Page, Hangman, Darby, MJF, Starks, Guevara etc. Ones they've poached from smaller companies that have TV deals.
> 
> Below that you have the likes of Hobbs, Ogogo, Private Party, Wardlow. True unknowns.
> 
> So there's a best of both worlds thing going on here and finally living up to the All Elite Wrestling moniker. What I like about it conpared to WWE is they aren't randomly jobbing them out like Kross and Lee were. It's not too common to see the ones I've listed get pinned or submitted, so the individual talent has some momentum and meaning


You can compare Bryan and Punk to Savage/Hogan or Hall/Nash, but I certainly won't. If they create an\ Monday Night War type boom like the NWO did, then by all means.

But that isn't happening. Not even close. Most of the other names are midcarders that don't matter.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

1.821 million for 8/2/21.









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com


----------



## chronoxiong

Olympics messed up the airing on USA last night. I dont even know what time it aired on the channel. Had to go to my trustworthy website to watch RAW.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

Comparing 2021 to 2020:









Wrestling Television Viewership Numbers: WWE Raw, SmackDown, NXT, AEW, IMPACT | Fightful News


An ongoing of viewership numbers for various wrestling television shows.




www.fightful.com





June 28, 2021: 1.57 million viewers 
July 5, 2021: 1.472 million viewers 
July 12, 2021: 1.609 million viewers 
July 19, 2021: 1.923 million viewers (First RAW with live crowds, John Cena)
July 26, 2021: 1.814 million viewers (olympics are on)
August 2, 2021: 1.821 million viewers (olympics are on)


June 29, 2020: 1.735 million viewers
July 6, 2020: 1.687 million viewers
July 13, 2020: 1.561 million viewers
July 20, 2020: 1.628 million viewers
July 27, 2020: 1.616 million viewers
August 3, 2020: 1.714 million viewers

P.S. John Cena is coming to RAW on August 9th as well (which I think is the day after the Olympics end)


----------



## SPCDRI

I'm looking at 6 weeks in a row where they didn't even sniff 2 million and its UP from last year. RAW is suffering, man.


----------



## TheTomBradyofwwefans

That 8/2/21 RAW only had 88,000 less fans than the 7/30/21 Smackdown (and Smackdown had Cena and Edge).


----------



## RLT1981

1.8 million is good for them still can't believe people can sit through 3 hours of Raw.


----------



## Kishido

Way too high


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dynamite will be beating them in the Demo come fall. I see Raw doing 0.38 - 0.45 while Dynanite will be higher


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I admittedly destroy Raw's ratings, but they once again destroyed AEW this week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

@rich110991 Can laugh all he wants, but it doesn't stop it from being true.


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

Newsflash: Things tend to grow and become more popular over time because of something called network externalities and various other factors that tend to give older sports leagues/wrestling promotions massive advantages.

The WWE has had several decades to grow their base. Surely, we could give AEW one decade before speaking about them as some kind of failure, especially since their demos are already very encouraging?


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> @rich110991 Can laugh all he wants, but it doesn't stop it from being true.


It really isn’t true though. Raw’s ratings are falling, AEW’s are rising, I’ll come back to you when they are even.

Plus Raw has been around for decades and Dynamite is not even 2 years old, and you think they’re destroying them? If Raw was getting 3 or 4 million then yeah maybe, but it’s evidently getting closer and closer.

I don’t know why I’m asking you these questions, because you probably won’t talk sense and it doesn’t matter to me. AEW has all the momentum. Raw has nothing, which is a shame.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rich110991 said:


> It really isn’t true though. Raw’s ratings are falling, AEW’s are rising, I’ll come back to you when they are even.
> 
> Plus Raw has been around for decades and Dynamite is not even 2 years old, and you think they’re destroying them? If Raw was getting 3 or 4 million then yeah maybe, but it’s evidently getting closer and closer.
> 
> I don’t know why I’m asking you these questions, because you probably won’t talk sense and it doesn’t matter to me. AEW has all the momentum. Raw has nothing, which is a shame.


Actually, AEW is down from last week. And yes, nearly 2 million is ALOT more than 1 million.

How long each company has been around means little to nothing. If you're hot, you're hot no matter the age of the company. If this is "all the momentum", then that's sad.


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> Actually, AEW is down from last week. And yes, nearly 2 million is ALOT more than 1 million.
> 
> How long each company has been around means little to nothing. If you're hot, you're hot no matter the age of the company. If this is "all the momentum", then that's sad.


You’re talking absolute bullshit. And you’re also trying to round up and down the numbers to make out the difference was 1 mil, when it was 700,000.

How much down were AEW btw? 

And of course it matters how long you’ve been around, Rome wasn’t built in a day  

I want all wrestling to be good, but you saying AEW is getting destroyed is laughable.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rich110991 said:


> You’re talking absolute bullshit. And you’re also trying to round up and down the numbers to make out the difference was 1 mil, when it was 700,000.
> 
> How much down were AEW btw?
> 
> And of course it matters how long you’ve been around, Rome wasn’t built in a day
> 
> I want all wrestling to be good, but you saying AEW is getting destroyed is laughable.


RAW has been hovering around 1.8-2.0 million for awhile now. What the hell are you even talking about? AEW during this 'hot streak' has been at 1.1 million. I guess 700K-900K viewers isn't alot to you, but to most, it is. That doesn't even take into consideration that RAW has a third hour that Dynamite does not have.


----------



## La Parka

Shouldn’t NXT and TNA have beaten dynamite if “the shows been around years” logic was a thing?


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> RAW has been hovering around 1.8-2.0 million for awhile now. What the hell are you even talking about? AEW during this 'hot streak' has been at 1.1 million. I guess 700K-900K viewers isn't alot to you, but to most, it is. That doesn't even take into consideration that RAW has a third hour that Dynamite does not have.


Ok like I said, I’ll come back to you when the ratings are even.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rich110991 said:


> Ok like I said, I’ll come back to you when the ratings are even.


What? After they sign the entire WWE roster?


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> What? After they sign the entire WWE roster?


Only the good ones 😉


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rich110991 said:


> Only the good ones 😉


At least you're honest. Because AEW's homegrown wrestlers sure as fuck isn't/wasn't drawing shit.  Points for honesty, though.


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> At least you're honest. Because AEW's homegrown wrestlers sure as fuck isn't/wasn't drawing shit.  Points for honesty, though.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413488351236165641


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

rich110991 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413488351236165641


....Okay?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

You gotta love when crying is disguised as laughing.


----------



## rich110991

Showstopper said:


> You gotta love when crying is disguised as laughing.


As an AEW fan there is literally nothing to cry about, that’s one of the great things about it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Raw and Smackdown are absolutely going to beat AEW, every week, for at least the next 2-3 years no matter what happens in either company. No matter who’s pushed, no matter who’s brought in. There may be an exception or two (like SD being put on FS1, or AEW debuting a truly big talent then they might get a short lived pop that MIGHT get past Raw if Raw has a bad week), but AEW is not going to be consistently beating Raw or Smackdown for a long time.

And they may never consistently beat them. AEW needs to continue building their brand+audience, or at the very least maintain it, while WWE needs to continue losing theirs. I think the most likely scenario for AEW beating Raw in viewers is AEW maintaining numbers between 900-1.2 million over next couple of years, while Raw declines 10-20% per year. IF that can happen, then maybe AEW will be beating them consistently 2023-2024.

It’s all speculative though. AEW could decline yearly and always be behind Raw. Plus ultimately even if AEW did ever beat WWE in ratings consistently, WWE will probably still be a bigger company for a long time.


----------



## InexorableJourney

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Raw and Smackdown are absolutely going to beat AEW, every week, for at least the next 2-3 years no matter what happens in either company. No matter who’s pushed, no matter who’s brought in. There may be an exception or two (like SD being put on FS1, or AEW debuting a truly big talent then they might get a short lived pop that MIGHT get past Raw if Raw has a bad week), but AEW is not going to be consistently beating Raw or Smackdown for a long time.
> 
> And they may never consistently beat them. AEW needs to continue building their brand+audience, or at the very least maintain it, while WWE needs to continue losing theirs. I think the most likely scenario for AEW beating Raw in viewers is AEW maintaining numbers between 900-1.2 million over next couple of years, while Raw declines 10-20% per year. IF that can happen, then maybe AEW will be beating them consistently 2023-2024.
> 
> It’s all speculative though. AEW could decline yearly and always be behind Raw. Plus ultimately even if AEW did ever beat WWE in ratings consistently, WWE will probably still be a bigger company for a long time.


Maybe, but I just looked at a variety article which shows that USA is a declining network, (along with HBO and The CW).

They've lost a third of their 18-49 audience in a year, and are no longer a top 10 network which WWE always guaranteed them being in the past.









Year in Review: Most-Watched Television Networks — Ranking 2020’s Winners and Losers


Yes, linear TV still exists, and it’s still watched by millions of viewers. But 2020 was another tipping point for traditional television, and it’s not just because of the pandemic. Wha…




variety.com






*Heck now that I re-read it losing a third of their audience in one year is not a network in decline, that's a network in free-fall.


----------



## DaSlacker

Raw rating was 1,790,000 viewers a nd 0.49 demo.


----------



## RLT1981

thats awful heading int Summerslam could see them falling below 1.5 after Summerslam esp when Monday night football starts up.


----------



## Randy Lahey

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Raw and Smackdown are absolutely going to beat AEW, every week, for at least the next 2-3 years no matter what happens in either company.


AEW will beat Raw consistently in the Demos beginning this fall. Right now it's 0.49 to 0.46, and that's with AEW not having their main guys debuting yet, and before Raw goes against MNF.


----------



## RLT1981

there only hope is the draft but again it wont matter who goes where if they keep booking the show as is which they will.


----------



## rich110991

Oh dear oh dear…

Can’t see it getting any better. Can’t wait for Dynamite to be getting equal ratings and then higher ratings than RAW.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The fact that nobody even watches this show anymore and is 3 hours long and still in it's sleep is the 2nd highest rated wrestling show in the country these days says alot.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> The fact that nobody even watches this show anymore and is 3 hours long and still in it's sleep is the 2nd highest rated wrestling show in the country these days says alot.


It probably does tbf but never underestimate the power of the brand and 36 years straight of wrestling on a Monday night at 9pm.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DaSlacker said:


> It probably does tbf but never underestimate the power of the brand and 36 years straight of wrestling on a Monday night at 9pm.


Plus all the old people who are too tired to get up and change the channel and too confused to work a remote.  I kid.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Last 3 weeks Raw is .49 , .51 and .49

AEW has been .45 and .46 the past 2 weeks

Raw is winning the nursing home demo BIG. 

People are saying Raw is 1.8 to 2.0. Really 1.8 is the high end for Raw I mean it hit 1.92 with the return of Cena, Goldberg and the hype of Becky after MITB.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Tick tock


----------



## RogueSlayer

Bold prediction by this time next year I think they will be doing under 1 million viewers on a regular basis.


----------



## RainmakerV2

1.85 mil, .55 demo


----------



## RLT1981

can't even get 2 million for the go home show to summerslam they are fucked when Football returns.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Monday’s live SummerSlam go-home edition of WWE RAW drew an average of 1.857 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Nielsen via Showbuzz Daily.

This is up 3.74% from last week’s 1.790 million viewers.

For this week’s show, the first hour drew 1.912 million viewers (last week’s hour 1 – 1.840 million), the second hour drew 1.864 million viewers (last week’s hour 2 – 1.863 million) and the final hour drew 1.796 million viewers (last week’s hour 3 – 1.669 million).


----------



## P.H. Hatecraft

Lenny Leonard said:


> There is no official way to oust Vince is there? He has majority control of the shares doesn't he?


Why would anybody oust Vince? He declares record revenue every fucking quarter.


----------



## DammitChrist

Omegapop said:


> They gotta get rid of Triple H and Stephanie, more than 20 years of fucking up this company.
> 
> Enough already.


Triple H is a better option than Vince in 2021.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Triple H is a better option than Vince in 2021.


I use to think so but not anymore he might be just as worse as Vince.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430265486453903367

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RLT1981

2 million viewers!!

its been awhile Congrats Vince.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Wow what a rating. Best rating since Post Mania show. And 3hrs at that. 

Another proof that Summerslam was a massive success. The haters can't claim the WWE is manipulating this number. 

Now let's see how much of a needle mover Punk advertised Dynamite get AEW, plus Brock & Becky on Smackdown. 

It does feel like wrestling is on an upward curve since fans came back compared to other shows on TV.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RLT1981 said:


> 2 million viewers!!
> 
> its been awhile Congrats Vince.


Meltzer will be upset tonight. You know for a fact he was hoping for a low viewership and demo. 

Knowing with the Punk appearance, it's the first chance he can boast about AEW beating Raw in the 18-49 demo.


----------



## RLT1981

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow what a rating. Best rating since Post Mania show. And 3hrs at that.
> 
> Another proof that Summerslam was a massive success. The haters can't claim the WWE is manipulating this number.
> 
> Now let's see how much of a needle mover Punk advertised Dynamite get AEW, plus Brock & Becky on Smackdown.
> 
> It does feel like wrestling is on an upward curve since fans came back compared to other shows on TV.


I'm a huge AEW Fan more then WWE these days but I have to admit its great if both Companys are doing well it helps Wrestling as a whole


----------



## RLT1981

oops .


----------



## Garty

I would have to guess that some fan interest was there for Brock and/or Becky, but neither is on Raw. It'll be next week's rating to look at, to see if it was just a spike or an actual uptick in viewers long-term.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ha. Kross' outfit is a draw fuckers.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Up 150K for post Summerslam I really do not see this as good or bad but it should be expected to see a bump.

I am not watching anymore there is literally nothing on the show that entertains me. RK-Bro seems like it could be fun but not watching just for that. I still am following because if something sounds interesting then I will check it out but until then it is here and Youtube.


----------



## Seafort

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow what a rating. Best rating since Post Mania show. And 3hrs at that.
> 
> Another proof that Summerslam was a massive success. The haters can't claim the WWE is manipulating this number.
> 
> Now let's see how much of a needle mover Punk advertised Dynamite get AEW, plus Brock & Becky on Smackdown.
> 
> It does feel like wrestling is on an upward curve since fans came back compared to other shows on TV.


Good rating. But it will dissipate. You had the buzz of Becky Lynch (Smackdown) and Lesnar (Smackdown) returning. 

What is there to keep fans invested in WWE RAW in the weeks to come? Alexa vs Charlotte? Bobby Lashley vs....who?


----------



## RLT1981

Seafort said:


> Good rating. But it will dissipate. You had the buzz of Becky Lynch (Smackdown) and Lesnar (Smackdown) returning.
> 
> What is there to keep fans invested in WWE RAW in the weeks to come? Alexa vs Charlotte? Bobby Lashley vs....who?


I'm excited for Alexa vs Charlotte they have never fued and only had one match together back in 2017 at the survior series part of the raw vs smackdown stuff they do at that ppv now.


----------



## AnonymousOne

2 million zombies watching that trash can show, LOL


----------



## Cosmo77

Out of pure intrique,but it wont last long


----------



## Randy Lahey

RLT1981 said:


> 2 million viewers!!
> 
> its been awhile Congrats Vince.


Clearly the Paul brothers are movers in combat sports.


----------



## mr.wolf2020

Good for them.


----------



## Not Lying

See all they needed was to get rid of Goldberg and get a bump?
Cool/ #Goldbergsucks #GoldbergANTIDRAW


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I listened to TWRP and they talked about how they went to RAW, and apparently there were barely any fat sweaty neckbeards in the crowds like there usually are, and apparently it was a very casual crowd, lots of kids, and you know, attractive looking people in the crowd. 

Apparently Matt Riddle is extremely over


----------



## Dark Emperor

Seafort said:


> Good rating. But it will dissipate. You had the buzz of Becky Lynch (Smackdown) and Lesnar (Smackdown) returning.
> 
> What is there to keep fans invested in WWE RAW in the weeks to come? Alexa vs Charlotte? Bobby Lashley vs....who?


RKBro is one of the best things on wrestling TV right now.

But Raw will always be let-down by the mere fact its 3hrs. That's what makes getting 2m+ even more impressive.


----------



## Kentucky34

Riddle is the next big thing.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> Riddle is the next big thing.


In theory, yes. He should be the next FOTC. I could easily be wrong, but I’m not sold that his Crush the Turtle act works as the FOTC.

I suspect that Riddle might actually turn heel on Randy as part of this storyline and lead to some character modification.


----------



## dcruz

Riddle is terrible, or at least his current character is. Y'all think Kross wearing an entrance mask and suspenders is the cringiest thing ever yet we're supposed to act like Ridde and the way he speaks/behaves in general is cool/good? 💀


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number for Raw, mostly a good bump. Lesnar and Lynch probably did have some impact, even though not advertised. Smackdown will be the show this week to see what impact they really had.


----------



## Chasingamymatt

good , keep putting on decent weekly shows and build to PPVs (specials, whatever) and everyone wins


----------



## postmoderno

Wow. Well, good for Raw I guess. They were struggling in the ratings for a bit, but seem to have rebounded fairly well. No clue how anybody watches this show, but you can't argue with the results lately.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Riddle is a draw. He's the only babyface who is next in line for a world title push. There is no one left unless they do a brand split.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432795798475997185

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AnonymousOne

LOL, it's gonna probably be barely above a million once Monday Night Football starts


----------



## RainmakerV2

AnonymousOne said:


> LOL, it's gonna probably be barely above a million once Monday Night Football starts



People have said this every year and every year it stays between 1.6-1.8.


----------



## P.H. Hatecraft

AnonymousOne said:


> LOL, it's gonna probably be barely above a million once Monday Night Football starts


And when that happens it will be number 1 for the night too. Just like this one. There’s a reason networks pay Vince the big bux.


----------



## ClintDagger

RainmakerV2 said:


> People have said this every year and every year it stays between 1.6-1.8.


Their viewership has been dropping every year by about 400k if you look at the month of August from ‘17 to ‘20. Then from there they usually lose about 17% of their audience for football. However they have stayed more steady from ‘20 to ‘21 thanks to the return of live crowds. But I think the only year they’ve been at risk of going sub 1MM was last year and in the end they really didn’t get that close. So whether they stay around 1.7mm or not throughout this football season will probably rely on whether they have to go back to a thunderdome type setup. If they do I could see them dropping to the 1.2 to 1.4 range. If they can avoid that I think they stay in that range that you said.


----------



## Fearless Viper

WWE RAW Viewership Down From Last Week For Labor Day Episode


Monday's live Labor Day edition of WWE RAW drew an average of 1.849 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Nielsen via Showbuzz Daily.…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Seth Grimes

How is Raw honestly doing these numbers. It's recently the last few weeks only started becoming watchable again. SD has been head and shoulders better than Raw for a while now, too. In America which of the shows is on the more popular channel?


----------



## reamstyles

Seth Grimes said:


> How is Raw honestly doing these numbers. It's recently the last few weeks only started becoming watchable again. SD has been head and shoulders better than Raw for a while now, too. In America which of the shows is on the more popular channel?


Wrestling is now a staple for Monday Nights


----------



## llj

RainmakerV2 said:


> People have said this every year and every year it stays between 1.6-1.8.


What are you talking about? It's only been 1.6-1.8 for about a year. In early 2020 they were still averaging 2 million (which itself was a huge drop from 2019 when they were averaging 2.3-2.6, which itself was a huge drop from 2018 when they could still pull 3 million on the regular)


----------



## A PG Attitude

Dynamite beat Raw for the first time this week. 0.53 to 0.52.


----------



## Seth Grimes

A PG Attitude said:


> Dynamite beat Raw for the first time this week. 0.53 to 0.52.


Huh? Didn't RAW do 1.9 and Dynamite did 1.3 how is that a win?


----------



## A PG Attitude

Seth Grimes said:


> Huh? Didn't RAW do 1.9 and Dynamite did 1.3 how is that a win?


Because ratings are ranked on the key 18-49 demo not total viewership.


----------



## Seth Grimes

A PG Attitude said:


> Because ratings are ranked on the key 18-49 demo not total viewership.


Why?


----------



## DammitChrist

What a time to be alive!!


----------



## A PG Attitude

Seth Grimes said:


> Why?


Because that's who advertisers want to reach most.


----------



## Basvicii

Seth Grimes said:


> Why?


Because that's what advertisers target. Young people with disposable incomes. Not 55 year old men...


----------



## Seth Grimes

@A PG Attitude 



Basvicii said:


> Because that's what advertisers target. Young people with disposable incomes. Not 55 year old men...


Why are we judging by advertisers? lmao you look at viewership because of how many people enjoy something, not about what advertisers like lmao Young people with disposable income that are either in education and a broke student, or has just came out of education and is either at the bottom of a company, or only just started to earn money. People in their 50's will easily be outearning people in their 20's the fuck kinda logic is that? Are people so desperate to find a win they use these moronic measures to make themselves feel better? lmao. Isn't it a known fact that women spend way more money than men as well? Why aren't you caring about the demo between genders if you care so much about money


----------



## A PG Attitude

Seth Grimes said:


> @A PG Attitude
> 
> 
> Why are we judging by advertisers? lmao you look at viewership because of how many people enjoy something, not about what advertisers like lmao Young people with disposable income that are either in education and a broke student, or has just came out of education and is either at the bottom of a company, or only just started to earn money. People in their 50's will easily be outearning people in their 20's the fuck kinda logic is that? Are people so desperate to find a win they use these moronic measures to make themselves feel better? lmao. Isn't it a known fact that women spend way more money than men as well? Why aren't you caring about the demo between genders if you care so much about money


I don't make the rules pal that's how they are ranked by the television industry, take it up with them.


----------



## Basvicii

Seth Grimes said:


> @A PG Attitude
> 
> 
> Why are we judging by advertisers? lmao you look at viewership because of how many people enjoy something, not about what advertisers like lmao Young people with disposable income that are either in education and a broke student, or has just came out of education and is either at the bottom of a company, or only just started to earn money. People in their 50's will easily be outearning people in their 20's the fuck kinda logic is that? Are people so desperate to find a win they use these moronic measures to make themselves feel better? lmao. Isn't it a known fact that women spend way more money than men as well? Why aren't you caring about the demo between genders if you care so much about money


Mate, it's all about the demo. I work in advertising so know what I'm talking about. 

What advertisers are 55 year olds going to attract for a network? Deck varnishing? Life insurance? Pensions?

Network attracts shit advertiser's with shit fees = offer less when it's contract renewal time etc. Or just cancel the show as it's a waste of time and making them no as revenue (which I know will never happen with RAW or Smackdown)


----------



## DaSlacker

Basvicii said:


> Mate, it's all about the demo. I work in advertising so know what I'm talking about.
> 
> What advertisers are 55 year olds going to attract for a network? Deck varnishing? Life insurance? Pensions?
> 
> Network attracts shit advertiser's with shit fees = offer less when it's contract renewal time etc. Or just cancel the show as it's a waste of time and making them no as revenue (which I know will never happen with RAW or Smackdown)


That 18-49 demo is even more coveted in today's cord cutting and streaming market. If your show can attract younger people to cable in 2021 it's something of a phenomenon lol


----------



## Serpico Jones

Hopefully this wakes Vince up from his coma.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Basvicii said:


> Mate, it's all about the demo. I work in advertising so know what I'm talking about.
> 
> What advertisers are 55 year olds going to attract for a network? Deck varnishing? Life insurance? Pensions?
> 
> Network attracts shit advertiser's with shit fees = offer less when it's contract renewal time etc. Or just cancel the show as it's a waste of time and making them no as revenue (which I know will never happen with RAW or Smackdown)


Why? Why are you caring about what advertisers want?



A PG Attitude said:


> I don't make the rules pal that's how they are ranked by the television industry, take it up with them.


So you work for a television company? Why the fuck would you care how the television industry ranks it? Oh yeah because that way you can jerk your dick over a "win" where you needed to debut about 40 new wrestlers and still dropped 600k to Booby fuckin Lashley, and RKBro. eeeeeeee


----------



## ClintDagger

Seth Grimes said:


> Why?


That essentially started as an industry slight to FNC who was dominating the ratings and annoying people in the industry. Advertisers don’t care near as much about the age demos as they do education, cultural, and income demos (all of which pro wrestling is awful at which is why they attract low class advertisers). WWE or AEW would both much rather have high total viewership with mediocre age demo viewership than vice versa because that’s a much stronger selling point to the USAs and TNTs of the world.


----------



## Seth Grimes

ClintDagger said:


> That essentially started as an industry slight to FNC who was dominating the ratings and annoying people in the industry. Advertisers don’t care near as much about the age demos as they do education, cultural, and income demos (all of which pro wrestling is awful at which is why they attract low class advertisers). WWE or AEW would both much rather have high total viewership with mediocre age demo viewership than vice versa because that’s a much stronger selling point to the USAs and TNTs of the world.


Yeah I have read that, which is why UFC gets so many advertisers because their audience is typically higher earning, whilst wrestling are basically seen as being poor. Is that an old fact that is carried through time or is it still true? I figure in the past all the ******** would have been why wrestling fans were seen as poor, and they pretty much all ditched wrestling.

Did not know the word starting with red, and ending with necks would be blocked out


----------



## reamstyles

Yeah I get why wrestling wanted 18 49 demo, no successful 50 year olders who are ceo's, managers of companies would watch wrestling as pastime so they treat the guys in that demo who watch wrestling as guys who arent able to move a purchase..


----------



## ShadowCounter

Serpico Jones said:


> Hopefully this wakes Vince up from his coma.


Said for the 10 millionth time in the last decade. Good luck but that man is in one hell of a coma.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I stand corrected. I thought they would do 2.3 at least. Holy shit RAW is in trouble.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437868161555124230*


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *I stand corrected. I thought they would do 2.3 at least. Holy shit RAW is in trouble.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437868161555124230*


That's bad. A title match announced ahead of time. A title switch and a MITB cash in tweeted out and that was the result. I'm surprised and yet not. The MNF game was really good.

Edit: Even sadder. We know who will be blamed. Sorry Kofi....er....Big E.


----------



## Not Lying

Football is really though competition and I'm sure a lot of people missed it. You had Orton and Riddle (who've been doing good numbes) Lashley and MITB tease.
But it's Un-winnable circumstances.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437870909507964929


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437628697519923204


----------



## A PG Attitude

Wow. That's embarrassing.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437628697519923204


Brock's on Smackdown. This is a job for Oldberg.


----------



## BPG

everything except ME was total shit


----------



## Kishido

Lol the show was a bit better than last weeks but still mediocre. 

Doubt it will get better in ratings much


----------



## DaSlacker

I had this on in the background. It wasn't that bad but until Orton vs Lashley it was mostly like watching a televised houseshow. It was the same two weeks ago when I watched all of it. 

It's a 1 hour TV show dragged out for 3 hours.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Well, AEW is almost certainly beating WWE again this week. They're practically touching tips in total viewers at this point. Surely this will light a fire in Vince's ass, right? What will it take to wake these guys up? "Legends" and hot shotting don't work.


----------



## Rozzop

How exactly does the football impact the ratings?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Big F in the chat ...if aew keeps going we could see them beating out raw in demo and ratings 

They hot shottes a title match and a cash in and came out with that


----------



## A PG Attitude

Rozzop said:


> How exactly does the football impact the ratings?


Casual wrestling viewers tune out to watch football instead.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Normally I don't care to engage in the WWE ratings discourse as it's been sliding downwards with no end in sight for 20 years. Despite that they'll likely make even more money on their next television deal and honestly should have been making way more money back in the day anyways. Regardless that rating is very surprising. They spent all day on social media practically begging you to watch and telegraphing a WWE title change. Historically title changes have always helped, that's why Russo did it so damn much in WCW.

I expected around a 1.9. The Ravens and Raiders game was really good so I guess that'll be blamed even though the show just sucks.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Rozzop said:


> How exactly does the football impact the ratings?


*Football is still doing Attitude Era numbers in 2021.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437866506709241858








TV Ratings: Monday Night Football Opener Dominates for ABC


In the latest TV ratings, ABC’s coverage of the Monday Night Football season opener averaged 7.4 million total viewers and a 1.7 demo rating, obviously dominating the night




tvline.com






> In the latest TV ratings, ABC’s coverage of the _Monday Night Football_ season opener averaged 7.4 million total viewers and a 1.7 demo rating, obviously dominating the night in both measures.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Is it because NFL are experiencing the crowd effect that it had on wrestling as well hence bigger draw?


----------



## InexorableJourney

That NFL rating viewership has halved since 2 years ago.


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437885643804323847


----------



## Mr316

No surprise there. The show absolutely fucking sucks. It’s unwatchable. It’s lame. It’s embarrassing.


----------



## RLT1981

I only watch Alexa segments.


----------



## rich110991

I’ve stopped watching. The show is blatantly aimed at kids. AEW is for adults.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Monday Night Football is an absolute killer. Especially the first week back.

Smackdown & AEW would also lose significant percentage from prior week if they had same competition. Things may improve depending with NFL team is playing each Monday. But not likely to see the numbers they were enjoying post Summerslam. It is what it is.


----------



## Rozzop

A PG Attitude said:


> Casual wrestling viewers tune out to watch football instead.


I don't really think a show featuring a doll, a superhero and a man twerking has much cross over appeal as the football but hey I could be wrong.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Flipped a tag title match you built most of last week to the WWE title match and then tease a MITB cash-in bringing a guy from another show and you lose hundreds of thousands of viewers.


----------



## Rankles75

Didn’t really matter what they did this week, they weren’t competing with the Raiders/Ravens game. Be interested to see what numbers they do next week, with a new champion and a less appealing Monday night game.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Since it looks like nobody posted this yet - quarter-hour total viewership:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903547362910210
There's also the demo for those that care:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903002556407814

Big E cash in did very well at the end of the show. I don't agree with the decision to do it the way it was done, but it did pop a number so at least it worked for the show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Rozzop said:


> I don't really think a show featuring a doll, a superhero and a man twerking has much cross over appeal as the football but hey I could be wrong.


*Alexa's segment was the most popular behind the twerking man

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903547362910210*


----------



## Randy Lahey

1,670,000 and a 0.43 and that’s with hotshotting the title.

To put it in perspective Raw did a better number last year from the Thunderdome. Raw is dead and if TK books smart with the mega shows he has planned the next few weeks he can deliver the kill shot


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

I'll go out on a limb and guess AEW isn't going to put Danielson vs Omega for the title on Dynamite tomorrow to counter this....


----------



## ClintDagger

Soul Man Danny B said:


> I'll go out on a limb and guess AEW isn't going to put Danielson vs Omega for the title on Dynamite tomorrow to counter this....


If they did the effect would be the same as what WWE got last night. These companies have their audiences and nothing they do is going to suddenly bring in another 500k viewers out of nowhere.


----------



## deadcool

Soul Man Danny B said:


> I'll go out on a limb and guess AEW isn't going to put Danielson vs Omega for the title on Dynamite tomorrow to counter this....


Khan isn't that stupid. I believe he has a long term plan for Omega, Danielson and Punk. He's not going to hotshot it like the WWE fools. 

What I found peculiar is how incredibly low the rating is given that WWE practically guaranteed a title change to try and make it a must watch TV. This could mean 2 things; either Big E wasn't ready for the title or NFL really took a chunk of their audience.


----------



## DammitChrist

It's the latter then.

I fully trust Big E's talent in the upper card.


----------



## ElTerrible

deadcool said:


> Khan isn't that stupid. I believe he has a long term plan for Omega, Danielson and Punk. He's not going to hotshot it like the WWE fools.
> 
> What I found peculiar is how incredibly low the rating is given that WWE practically guaranteed a title change to try and make it a must watch TV. This could mean 2 things; either Big E wasn't ready for the title or NFL really took a chunk of their audience.


It´s a process of months, even years to lose their audience. Why should it be different to get them back? It speaks of their hubris to think they would. Whatever you think about Dynamite it has been consistently better than Raw for two years and it did not move the needle that much.


----------



## InexorableJourney

I'm not looking at the numbers, but I believe Bobby Lashley is the first Champion in a looong time to maintain RAWs viewing figures over his reign.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

I said it last night and I’ll say it now…

lol big e.


----------



## Charzhino

Once Vince sees the slump to even lower ratings, he will get the belt back on Bobby.


----------



## Rozzop

The Legit DMD said:


> *Alexa's segment was the most popular behind the twerking man
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903547362910210*


But how many football fans are into that? 

I would have thought the football and present day WWE have completely different fan bases.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Yikes. 1.6 million with a world title cash in. Brutal.


----------



## Freelancer

With MNF starting, these ratings aren't going up. They basically said watch our show cause we're going to have a title change and that's all they got. It's going to be a brutal couple of months for RAW.

The real question is, how low will the ratings go?


----------



## postmoderno

Freelancer said:


> With MNF starting, these ratings aren't going up. They basically said watch our show cause we're going to have a title change and that's all they got. It's going to be a brutal couple of months for RAW.
> 
> The real question is, how low will the ratings go?


However low it goes, it's not enough. Show is an absolute dumpster fire, even when they "try."


----------



## RogueSlayer

Next week's MNF sounds like a shit match a washed Packers team with a washed QB against the worst team in NFL the Detroit Lions. If Raw does another 1.6 or even lower rating up against that match then they are in serious trouble.


----------



## drougfree

this is what happens when you push midcard geeks like New Day


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Rozzop said:


> But how many football fans are into that?
> 
> I would have thought the football and present day WWE have completely different fan bases.


*Probably zero, considering the numbers they did. The ship has long sailed of trying to get those fans to watch again. WWE's average is around 2 mil, so they're doing well to stay above that on SmackDown. RAW has to figure out how to make each show feel special without blowing their entire load.*


----------



## Serpico Jones

The last five years have been brutal for this company.


----------



## RLT1981

WWE"s mistake is not waiting until after Monday Night Football is over to do Big E cash in cause its noway nothing they put out there is going to take fans away from the football so they should have waited until First Raw of the new year hype it up as this big show and do the cash in there it would pop a great rating.


----------



## DaSlacker

^ The third hour was the highest rated so I think it did as good as it ever would. They've got a draft coming up so that might help. Generally they are being hit due to years of apathy towards their product and treating most of the roster like geeks and Raw like a comedy show. 

They needed to make major changes to Raw, and WWE years ago. However, they just kept doing the same thing year in and year out. 

Everything considered it's amazing they still hit 1.6 million.


----------



## RLT1981

DaSlacker said:


> ^ The third hour was the highest rated so I think it did as good as it ever would. They've got a draft coming up so that might help. Generally they are being hit due to years of apathy towards their product and treating most of the roster like geeks and Raw like a comedy show.
> 
> They needed to make major changes to Raw, and WWE years ago. However, they just kept doing the same thing year in and year out.
> 
> Everything considered it's amazing they still hit 1.6 million.


yeah 1.6 million is still great for them like you said.

I'm also hoping the draft gives them a spark and it usually does for like a few weeks then things go back to shit again.


----------



## Jedah

Dynamite just beat Raw in the demo for the second week in a row. With Grand Slam next week, it's not outlandish to say we should expect a threepeat.


----------



## ClintDagger

Why do people quote the key age demo for wrestling when the overall demo for wrestling is horrible? Do people not notice that the advertisers for wrestling are bottom of the barrel types like junk food, fast food, cheap cellular carriers, and cheap insurance? You’re not seeing BMW, Lexus, Tagheuer, Rolex, etcetera advertising on wrestling for a reason; because wrestling fans are broke uneducated losers in the minds of advertisers. The key demo number is completely and utterly worthless when it comes to pro wrestling.


----------



## Jedah

Cope.


----------



## Fearless Viper

ClintDagger said:


> Why do people quote the key age demo for wrestling when the overall demo for wrestling is horrible? Do people not notice that the advertisers for wrestling are bottom of the barrel types like junk food, fast food, cheap cellular carriers, and cheap insurance? You’re not seeing BMW, Lexus, Tagheuer, Rolex, etcetera advertising on wrestling for a reason; because wrestling fans are broke uneducated losers in the minds of advertisers. The key demo number is completely and utterly worthless when it comes to pro wrestling.


Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it because of Raw and SD consistently in the top 5 of demo the reason they got this major deal from UsA and Fox?


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

Jedah said:


> Dynamite just beat Raw in the demo for the second week in a row. With Grand Slam next week, it's not outlandish to say we should expect a threepeat.



When TNA was watched by two million

Nobody was talking about the demo

In the war between WCW and WWF no one cares about the demo
What matters is the number of viewers
1- They are not on the same night
2- What matters is the number of viewers



There is no war between WWE and AEW
There is no war until Dynamite is on Monday at the same time as Raw or Friday at the same time as SmackDown

AEW don't have the guts to face WWE because they know they're going to lose



AEW Rampage drew 670,000
down 3.73% from last week’s Rampage episode, which drew 696,000

AEW Dynamite drew 1.175 million
down 10.91% from last week’s post-All Out episode, which drew 1.319 million

numbers don't lie
AEW didn't change the business


----------



## InexorableJourney

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Since it looks like nobody posted this yet - quarter-hour total viewership:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903547362910210
> There's also the demo for those that care:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437903002556407814
> 
> Big E cash in did very well at the end of the show. I don't agree with the decision to do it the way it was done, but it did pop a number so at least it worked for the show.


RAW peaked in the last quarter of an hour because anybody that watches it knows thats the only time anything of significance happens. Forget the rest of the show.


----------



## reamstyles

Lol I remember the wrestlemania top sponsor is freaking snickers..yeah wrwstling audience is bottom of the barrel thats why you try it to be family oriented..


----------



## Fearless Viper

Prediction: 1.8-9


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I imagine this week will be up by a few hundred thousand, I'll predict a 150-300k increase.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

ThenWo/WCW said:


> When TNA was watched by two million
> 
> Nobody was talking about the demo
> 
> In the war between WCW and WWF no one cares about the demo
> What matters is the number of viewers
> 1- They are not on the same night
> 2- What matters is the number of viewers
> 
> 
> 
> There is no war between WWE and AEW
> There is no war until Dynamite is on Monday at the same time as Raw or Friday at the same time as SmackDown
> 
> AEW don't have the guts to face WWE because they know they're going to lose
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Rampage drew 670,000
> down 3.73% from last week’s Rampage episode, which drew 696,000
> 
> AEW Dynamite drew 1.175 million
> down 10.91% from last week’s post-All Out episode, which drew 1.319 million
> 
> numbers don't lie
> AEW didn't change the business



networks care about the demo ..better demo means better deals and more ad revenue that's what AEW is aiming for right now

besides so far AEW has been able to do two things wwe has failed to do at less than 3 years old

Bring back Punk

And having Owens wife trust them with his legacy 

as old as wwe is ..AEW even being this close is huge


----------



## Prosper

Going with a 1.9 this week, Roman should help and the Packers/Lions game sucked


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Reckon it'll be 1.8-1.9 million this week. If they're lucky they may get 2 million.


----------



## wwetna1

Raw and MNF are going to get their ass kicked by NCIS season debut and the premiere of NCIS Hawaii since CBS made Monday NCIS night


----------



## fabi1982

Botchy SinCara said:


> networks care about the demo ..better demo means better deals and more ad revenue that's what AEW is aiming for right now
> 
> besides so far AEW has been able to do two things wwe has failed to do at less than 3 years old
> 
> Bring back Punk
> 
> And having Owens wife trust them with his legacy
> 
> as old as wwe is ..AEW even being this close is huge


Punk was holding a grudge against WWE, then went back and asked to be a wrestler again and they didnt want him. And then he held a grudge again (just listen to his initial promo).

Owens wife holds a grudge (righfully so?!) and has an opportunity to „show it to WWE“. So anyone else with a primetime deal would have got her attention.

So I dont think these are accomplishments by AEW.


----------



## Mongstyle

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Reckon it'll be 1.8-1.9 million this week. If they're lucky they may get 2 million.


They'll be lucky with 1.7 million frankly.

A lot of big season premieres happened last night alongside MNF, and they literally didn't advertise Reigns for Raw until 3 days ago (and only did it via social media which isn't the same). One only needs to look at YouTube numbers for Raw and Reigns. People clearly didn't know he was supposed to be on Raw. His Smackdown videos are usually already at more than a million at this stage and they tend to always do big numbers.

A big jump would be unexpected and honestly surprising.


----------



## Fearless Viper

When's the rating?


----------



## Britz94xD

Fearless Viper said:


> When's the rating?


20 minutes-ish


----------



## justin waynes

Fearless Viper said:


> When's the rating?


Why do ya care so much about it


----------



## A PG Attitude

justin waynes said:


> Why do ya care so much about it


Why you in a thread about TV ratings asking why someone wants to know the rating?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

> Last week
> 1,670 (0.42)
> 
> This week
> 1,793 (0.49)


----------



## Dark Emperor

Almost 1.8m is not bad. £130k increase from last week ain't be sniffed at.

NFL getting 12m viewers is ridiculous. Serious competition on Mondays.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Yikes. That’s the best they could do with their top guy advertised.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

So roman isn't the needle mover people like to say he is

Muh tribal chief 

Muh head of the table 


Can't move anything with out being on free tv and having Brock and Cena save his butt


----------



## ShadowCounter

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Yikes. That’s the best they could do with their top guy advertised.


So does that make this their ceiling during football season? Not good.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nobody is a big TV draw confirmed (as I’ve stated since late 2018 at least). 

You’d love to see it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Botchy SinCara said:


> So roman isn't the needle mover people like to say he is
> 
> Muh tribal chief
> 
> Muh head of the table
> 
> 
> Can't move anything with out being on free tv and having Brock and Cena save his butt


Hey, some folks have to find out the hard way


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Hour 3 drops 200k with Roman in the ME


----------



## fabi1982

3.8 in the demo and 13m overall from football, a 13.8 in the 50+ by ncis, dwts, voice all getting 5+m overall and they still increase by 130k, thats impressive.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Hour 3 drops 200k with Roman in the ME



You love to see it...and by the time the game was a blowout


----------



## Dark Emperor

Roman increased the numbers by 130k. If you discount the 3rd hr, which always goes down. Then the number is up by over 180k.

That is well over 10% and a significant increase by any stretch. How is he not a draw? It's not like it went down. They were only doing 1.8-1.9 weeks before the monster NFL returned so i'm not sure how much higher people expected it to be.


----------



## Randy Lahey

MNF game did a massive jump from last week. Last week was 2.76 and this week 3.86. 

Given that, it’s probably not that bad of rating for Raw. 0.48 and 1.8 mils…they’ll end up going far lower than that by late October.

I’d expect Dynamite to do 0.55+


----------



## Fearless Viper

The Tribal Chief keeping the show despite a heavy competition. #Acknowledged.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Also - they just had a title change last week on Raw. So it should’ve had some increase off of that.

Roman had minimal impact. The needle has halted. Lol


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Dark Emperor said:


> Roman increased the numbers by 130k. If you discount the 3rd hr, which always goes down. Then the number is up by over 180k.
> 
> That is well over 10% and a significant increase by any stretch. How is he not a draw? It's not like it went down. They were only doing 1.8-1.9 weeks before the monster NFL returned so i'm not sure how much higher people expected it to be.


Roman was in the ME that saw nearly a 200,000 viewer drop from the first 2 hours and demo drop of 0.05


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Dark Emperor said:


> Roman increased the numbers by 130k. If you discount the 3rd hr, which always goes down. Then the number is up by over 180k.
> 
> That is well over 10% and a significant increase by any stretch. How is he not a draw? It's not like it went down. They were only doing 1.8-1.9 weeks before the monster NFL returned so i'm not sure how much higher people expected it to be.



That's some cope there buddy


----------



## DammitChrist

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Roman was in the ME that saw nearly a 200,000 viewer drop from the first 2 hours and demo drop of 0.05


This might be an appropriate time to mention this, but after seeing how they killed NXT with a shitty revamp (that no sane wrestling fan really wanted); they officially lost me as a TV viewer. 

I’ll just check out future NXT episodes via online streams from here on out (until Vince and Bruce screw off). 

They don’t deserve to keep their TV audience after butchering the show with more main-roster booking.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

"Needle mover "


----------



## Accipiter

The Mannings and McAfee on ESPN 2 are beating Raw too. The NFL is quite the juggernaut.


----------



## Not Lying

Not good at all. Similar to a few weeks except there's a new champion and advertised Roman.

But tbf, RAW is garbage, it sucks the air and charisma out of the performers. I can't imagine Zayn, KO, Apollo, Roman, and many other not being better off on SD. Seth is better off on SD, Becky is too, Bayley as well. Like RAW is seriously just bad.


----------



## Zappers

I love how everyone always point to MNF as the problem. It's one piece of the puzzle.

You do realize RAW is watched by Men, Women, and Children. The 3rd hour always does less on the account that a huge chuck of those children go to bed.

FYI.... Dancing with the Stars just started. And guess what? The Miz is on it. It pulled in over 5 million viewers. We didn't even talk about NCIS, big hit among men/women. The Voice? big hit among all ages and genres.

I would say the ratings WWE got last night was decent considering the choices on TV.


----------



## chronoxiong

1.8 million viewers with NFL back is not bad guys. Quit thinking its the end of the world. I was expecting 1.5 million viewers with NFL back.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

ShadowCounter said:


> So does that make this their ceiling during football season? Not good.


You could probably squeeze out a bit more if Roman defended his title on Raw, but it'd have to be a fairly big match since his defenses on SD have provided mixed results.

As a general note, the number itself for this week isn't bad. It's just not anywhere near what they should've gotten advertising their top guy who's been given a mega star-like push, with a title reign over a year. We know over 2 million still have some tabs on Raw, as 3 weeks ago indicated. Roman's advertisement should've (at the very least) gotten them closer to that number vs. closer to last week's number.

The number would've been OK for just the title change fallout from last week. When you factor Roman in, it's a bit of a let down.


----------



## fabi1982

Zappers said:


> I love how everyone always point to MNF as the problem. It's one piece of the puzzle.
> 
> You do realize RAW is watched by Men, Women, and Children. The 3rd hour always does less on the account that a huge chuck of those children go to bed.
> 
> FYI.... Dancing with the Stars just started. And guess what? The Miz is on it. It pulled in over 5 million viewers. We didn't even talk about NCIS, big hit among men/women. The Voice? big hit among all ages and genres.
> 
> I would say the ratings WWE got last night was decent considering the choices on TV.


But if you have an agenda of telling everyone that Roman isnt a draw, you will not see your points (same I did couple posts above). But the same people will call 600k reality tv shows „huge competition“


----------



## Randy Lahey

chronoxiong said:


> 1.8 million viewers with NFL back is not bad guys. Quit thinking its the end of the world. I was expecting 1.5 million viewers with NFL back.


They’ll hit 1.5 by October/November.

Raw has to be in panic mode that their demo last year in the Thunder Dome was higher than this week’s episode with live fans


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

The number is fine in and of itself. The problem is sustainability and what WWE had to do to pull that number.

Where do you go from here?


----------



## DaSlacker

The number is fine for it is. Hell, you could argue they overperform in comparison to other shows and how lazy WWE became. 

Their problem is that it won't go up. It will keep dropping, year on year, by 5-10%. Some years it will take bigger hits, as old favourites retire or go part time. It's a downward slope. 

In saying that, even if they lose another 750,000 oldee viewers they will still be over performing.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Zappers said:


> I love how everyone always point to MNF as the problem. It's one piece of the puzzle.
> 
> You do realize RAW is watched by Men, Women, and Children. The 3rd hour always does less on the account that a huge chuck of those children go to bed.
> 
> FYI.... Dancing with the Stars just started. And guess what? The Miz is on it. It pulled in over 5 million viewers. We didn't even talk about NCIS, big hit among men/women. The Voice? big hit among all ages and genres.
> 
> I would say the ratings WWE got last night was decent considering the choices on TV.


Facts right ere. But this is not what people want to here and would rather blame Roman. The fact they saw a significant increase despite stiff competition is impressive. Especially as someone said the NFL rating was up from last week which took me by surprise as that was debut weekend.


----------



## DammitChrist

I remember when Raw receiving a 2.1 in the overall viewership was considered to be a ‘terrible’ rating back in late 2019. 

This number is still even LOWER than that. 

Seriously, this week’s number isn’t even impressive at all.

At best, it’s an average number (for 2021 standards).


----------



## Dark Emperor

DammitChrist said:


> I remember when Raw receiving a 2.1 in the overall viewership was considered to be a ‘terrible’ rating back in late 2019.
> 
> This number is still even LOWER than that.
> 
> Seriously, this week’s number isn’t even impressive at all.
> 
> At best, it’s an average number (for 2021 standards).


Maybe not impressive. But comparing to last week numbers, plus the fact that MNF had 12m viewers, plus other popular shows like Dancing with the Stars just returned with 5m viewers.

You can't tell me if AEW increased their numbers 8-10% despite heavier competition than the prior week with a show getting 12m viewers, you wouldn't claim it was impressive. Its clear there is a bias against WWE numbers just to create a narrative.

Raw also has the problem that MNF last the full 3 hrs Raw is on rather than just one hr like many shows.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Roman


Dark Emperor said:


> Maybe not impressive. But comparing to last week numbers, plus the fact that MNF had 12m viewers, plus other popular shows like Dancing with the Stars just returned with 5m viewers.
> 
> You can't tell me if AEW increased their numbers 8-10% despite heavier competition than the prior week with a show getting 12m viewers, you wouldn't claim it was impressive. Its clear there is a bias against WWE numbers just to create a narrative.
> 
> Raw also has the problem that MNF last the full 3 hrs Raw is on rather than just one hr like many shows.


Cope harder man 


Roman makes tweets about being a needle mover after smackdown got a booste from summer slam and blocks return and turns out he dosnt move crap


----------



## Dark Emperor

Botchy SinCara said:


> Roman
> 
> Cope harder man
> 
> 
> Roman makes tweets about being a needle mover after smackdown got a booste from summer slam and blocks return and turns out he dosnt move crap


Haha cope harder. I'm not even a Roman fan, my guy is Seth but i state facts.

Roman's show Smackdown got 1.1m more viewers last week than your precious AEW which features Bryan and Punk.

So he is moving something as those two were one of the most popular superstars of the last 10 years and he doubled their number.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha cope harder. I'm not even a Roman fan, my guy is Seth but i state facts.
> 
> Roman's show Smackdown got 1.1m more viewers last week than your precious AEW which features Bryan and Punk.
> 
> So he is moving something as those two were one of the most popular superstars of the last 10 years and he doubled their number.



Not even bringing aew into the argument I'm just pointing out the fact Roman dosnt move shit and he's the one on Twitter trying to say he does .smack down is on fox free tv it's gonna be higher than raw but wwe as a hole is falling year after year while a company not even 3 years old is creeping up on them and already outgrowing raw where it matters 


Not to mention ticket sells 


Wwe spent years on the Roman project and its proving that it wasn't worth it


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Add on the 200k that tuned out for the main event

Add on the fact the game was a blow out


Also add on the fact they have a ppv this Sunday


Roman is a fox and Brock baby that can't move anything alone


----------



## TheGunnShow

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 108873
> 
> 
> Add on the 200k that tuned out for the main event
> 
> Add on the fact the game was a blow out
> 
> 
> Also add on the fact they have a ppv this Sunday
> 
> 
> Roman is a fox and Brock baby that can't move anything alone


Fake article.


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> This is fake.


Nah, it’s valid.


----------



## TheGunnShow

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s valid.


No, he took this article and edited it to say Roman:









411MANIA | Alexa Bliss Denies Report of 1,500 Fans Leaving During Raw Segment


Alexa Bliss is shooting down the report that 1,500 fans left during her WWE Raw segment with Charlotte Flair.




411mania.com


----------



## Rankles75

TheGunnShow said:


> No, he took this article and edited it to say Roman:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411MANIA | Alexa Bliss Denies Report of 1,500 Fans Leaving During Raw Segment
> 
> 
> Alexa Bliss is shooting down the report that 1,500 fans left during her WWE Raw segment with Charlotte Flair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com


And even that one was bullshit.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s valid.


It's a fake article that changed the story from people walking out on Alexa to Reigns instead. Damn you'll believe anything if it tells you what you want to hear.

And on the rating, eh could have been better, not a bad one though. God damn some dorks have a weird hate boner for Reigns though.


----------



## BrokenFreakingNeck

Next monday roman will have 3 matches.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's a fake article that changed the story from people walking out on Alexa to Reigns instead. Damn you'll believe anything if it tells you what you want to hear.
> 
> And on the rating, eh could have been better, not a bad one though. God damn some dorks have a weird hate boner for Reigns though.



Just more calling out Roman and his stains for saying hea the end all of wrestling .he came out with the needle mover comments first trash talking punk ...now it's proven Roman don't move much himself..it's just ironic 


Not to mention them feeling big E to him bot once but twice


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Botchy SinCara said:


> Just more calling out Roman and his stains for saying hea the end all of wrestling .he came out with the needle mover comments first trash talking punk ...now it's proven Roman don't move much himself..it's just ironic
> 
> 
> Not to mention them feeling big E to him bot once but twice


I don't think Reigns was being serious in those interviews, he was more trying to rile people up because he knew they'd get angry. Oh well, it's no big deal at the end of the day.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I don't think Reigns was being serious in those interviews, he was more trying to rile people up because he knew they'd get angry. Oh well, *it's no big deal at the end of the day.*


You’d be gloating obnoxiously had Raw received 2+ million viewers.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> You’d be gloating obnoxiously had Raw received 2+ million viewers.


I'd be happy to see RAW get that number for sure, but you're going a bit over the top there pal.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I don't think Reigns was being serious in those interviews, he was more trying to rile people up because he knew they'd get angry. Oh well, it's no big deal at the end of the day.


It seems that creative thought he was being serious


----------



## ClintDagger

Fearless Viper said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it because of Raw and SD consistently in the top 5 of demo the reason they got this major deal from UsA and Fox?


Yes, you are wrong. It’s because of the overall viewership WWE was getting. Wrestling brings nothing to the table in terms of demos but they do help networks with rights fees.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Dark Emperor said:


> Roman's show Smackdown got 1.1m more viewers last week than your precious AEW which features Bryan and Punk.


Interesting point.

USA (paid cable network) - 90 million homes
TNT (paid cable network) - 89 million homes
Fox (free network tv) - 299 million homes

I wonder what the answer could be.


----------



## DaSlacker

ShadowCounter said:


> Interesting point.
> 
> USA (paid cable network) - 90 million homes
> TNT (paid cable network) - 89 million homes
> Fox (free network tv) - 299 million homes
> 
> I wonder what the answer could be.


Fox is counted as being in 121 million homes. 

Two years ago there was about a 200,000 difference between Raw and SmackDown. So if SmackDown was still on USA it would be at approximately 1.575 million viewers on a good day.


----------



## Butt Soup

TheGunnShow said:


> No, he took this article and edited it to say Roman:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411MANIA | Alexa Bliss Denies Report of 1,500 Fans Leaving During Raw Segment
> 
> 
> Alexa Bliss is shooting down the report that 1,500 fans left during her WWE Raw segment with Charlotte Flair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com


It gets even better (or worse), just look at the clickbait here:








Alexa Bliss ‘Sabotages’ Roman Reigns Match


WWE Superstar Roman Reigns is certainly one of the top competitors in the company right now and has been on a solid run as the WWE Universal Champion, but he is losing his top spot to two WWE Smackdown women. Roman Reigns successfully defended his WWE Universal Championship against WWE Hall Of...




wrestling-edge.com


----------



## holy

Will someone please explain to me, that when MNF is getting 11 million viewers and Dancing with the Stars is getting 5 million viewers, why is the viewership for any pro wrestling show celebrated just because they were "#1 on cable for the night", even though the viewership is 2 million viewers or below? Aren't these low viewership numbers in comparison to the programs I mentioned? 

Genuine question.


----------



## the_hound

holy said:


> Will someone please explain to me, that when MNF is getting 11 million viewers and Dancing with the Stars is getting 5 million viewers, why is the viewership for any pro wrestling show celebrated just because they were "#1 on cable for the night", even though the viewership is 2 million viewers or below? Aren't these low viewership numbers in comparison to the programs I mentioned?
> 
> Genuine question.


demos, google trends, twitter trends, forum posts, reddit upvotes, youtube video views and some other things which i can't be arsed to name, anyways according to the dub thats how it goes.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DaSlacker said:


> Fox is counted as being in 121 million homes.


Where you seeing that citation? I saw Neilson estimating viewers for the season based off tv sales or something


----------



## DaSlacker

ShadowCounter said:


> Where you seeing that citation? I saw Neilson estimating viewers for the season based off tv sales or something











Nielsen Estimates 120.6 Million TV Homes in the U.S. for the 2019-2020 TV Season | Nielsen


According to Nielsen’s National Television Household Universe Estimates, there are 120.6 million TV homes in the U.S. for the 2019-20 TV season.




www.nielsen.com






It's because they estimate an average of 2.6 people per household out of a population of 328 million. 4% of households don't have a TV (maybe most of them are just vacant properties?). 

But most people have more than one TV and most have a tablet or phone they can watch TV, so not sure how it all works out to be honest.


----------



## validreasoning

holy said:


> Will someone please explain to me, that when MNF is getting 11 million viewers and Dancing with the Stars is getting 5 million viewers, why is the viewership for any pro wrestling show celebrated just because they were "#1 on cable for the night", even though the viewership is 2 million viewers or below? Aren't these low viewership numbers in comparison to the programs I mentioned?
> 
> Genuine question.


MNF is paid $1.9 billion a season for 15-16 games ESPN, NFL reach $15 billion Monday Night Football deal

Comparing it to pro wrestling is daft. Two games costs Disney more than NBC pay for a whole year of Raw and NXT...

Pro wrestling viewership is celebrated because outside the pro wrestling fan base you never see it talked about on national news, newspapers, 24/7 on Espn etc yet it averages better viewership year round than nba, mlb, nhl, UFC all of which get far more national coverage and bigger TV rights...


----------



## RLT1981

Roman is not bringing any new viewers to raw(noone is) we already know that but he is still the best act in the company right alongside Alexa which are the only 2 reasons I still watch WWE at the moment.


----------



## The XL 2

The fact is Roman is not a star. No one has ever been pushed as hard and long as he has and produced zero results.


----------



## Soul Rex

The tribal chief keepting the damn ratings against football competition.

#needlemoving


----------



## Fearless Viper

Prediction: 1.65-1.7


----------



## reamstyles

holy said:


> Will someone please explain to me, that when MNF is getting 11 million viewers and Dancing with the Stars is getting 5 million viewers, why is the viewership for any pro wrestling show celebrated just because they were "#1 on cable for the night", even though the viewership is 2 million viewers or below? Aren't these low viewership numbers in comparison to the programs I mentioned?
> 
> Genuine question.


Because wwe and aew already set low standards, wwe for their cable ranking and aew for the so called "demo"


----------



## Seafort

Fearless Viper said:


> Prediction: 1.65-1.7


I think 1.95


----------



## Fearless Viper

Was there a competition during Raw?


----------



## fabi1982

WOW NFL drew 4.11 in the demo, so we know why WWE made such a title heavy show. Not to contest with AEW, but to compete with NFL. And as far as I think, they did pretty well (.49 demo)


----------



## RapShepard

1.6 and .47 demo


----------



## fabi1982




----------



## Fearless Viper

I was closed.


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> 1.6 and .47 demo


But how is it a 1.6, when even the worst hour was 1.596 and the others were 1.7+ and 1.8+?


----------



## Fearless Viper

Monday’s live post-Extreme Rules edition of WWE RAW drew an average of 1.709 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Nielsen via Showbuzz Daily. 

WWE RAW Viewership And Key Demo Rating For The Post-Extreme Rules Episode - Wrestling Inc. 

I was too closed.


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> But how is it a 1.6, when even the worst hour was 1.596 and the others were 1.7+ and 1.8+?


1.8 + 1.7 + 1.5= 5

5 ÷ 3= 1.6666


----------



## Not Lying

Decent considering the competition, but they can't do 4 title matches and a cage match every week.

Or can they?



RapShepard said:


> 1.8 + 1.7 + 1.5= 5
> 
> 5 ÷ 3= 1.6666


You rounded way too down the to 1.5 bud


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> You rounded way too down the to 1.5 bud


I just keep it fair when I do my AEW ratings track I don't round so I didn't round up here. 

But if you round up the 1.5 the overall is a 1.6 overall


----------



## DaSlacker

At this point they might have better luck moving to the 7pm eastern timeslot.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw did better viewers and ratings last year from the Thunderdome.


----------



## postmoderno

Next week they should have 3 matches between Lashley and Big E. Every hour on the hour.

Guaranteed ratings


----------



## OwenSES

postmoderno said:


> Next week they should have 3 matches between Lashley and Big E. Every hour on the hour.
> 
> Guaranteed ratings


It worked when they did that with Miz vs Lashley.


----------



## DaSlacker

postmoderno said:


> Next week they should have 3 matches between Lashley and Big E. Every hour on the hour.
> 
> Guaranteed ratings


Three contract signing for next three matches
3 Stages of Hell
Lashley and Big E brawling in a supermarket 
Wedding of Lashley and Big E

That's the next few episodes booked.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Post ppv. Steel cage match. Big E title defense. This is terrible. That 3rd hour drop tho. It's not saying much good about Lashley or Big E holding the title.


----------



## RLT1981

nothing that they do will save this show.They have done too much damage for fans to give a shit.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

And man last night's game was a blow out too


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw did better viewers and ratings last year from the Thunderdome.



NFL games didn't have fans and sucked to watch too.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Damn you would have thought they'd get a better rating for a show that was pretty good. Those NFL ratings are absolutely insane.


----------



## reamstyles

4.11 demo for football, now I know why Vince wanted xfl and why we wont see monday night wars in the near future


----------



## JTB33b

The Cowboys games have a huge following. Alot of fans who love them and alot of fans who hate them and want to watch them lose. I am part of the latter and shut the game off midway through the 2nd quarter.


----------



## ClintDagger

Seems like Vince is hot shotting the crap out of these shows in order to stay in that 1.8 million range. I think we may have found the end of USA’s patience. But I would think giving so much away out of desperation while effective in the near term has to be disastrous in the long term.


----------



## Zappers

Week in and week out. NFL or not. That third hour almost always the worst hour.

Beating a dead horse. But.... Time to go to 2hrs. Instant improvement in ratings in the 2hrs, plus overall better programming. No filler, writers can focus on an weekly outline easier.


----------



## RapShepard

Zappers said:


> Week in and week out. NFL or not. That third hour almost always the worst hour.
> 
> Beating a dead horse. But.... Time to go to 2hrs. Instant improvement in ratings in the 2hrs, plus overall better programming. No filler, writers can focus on an weekly outline easier.


But then how can they afford Air McMahon 2!


----------



## RainmakerV2

ClintDagger said:


> Seems like Vince is hot shotting the crap out of these shows in order to stay in that 1.8 million range. I think we may have found the end of USA’s patience. But I would think giving so much away out of desperation while effective in the near term has to be disastrous in the long term.


Lol. USA isn't going to do anything. WWE is the only thing keeping that channel afloat or even relevant.


----------



## Seafort

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol. USA isn't going to do anything. WWE is the only thing keeping that channel afloat or even relevant.


Indeed. Without WWE they are essentially SyFy channel is outlook.

1.93M prediction.


----------



## kazarn

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445491834948505603


----------



## dcruz

Just go back to 2 hours already ffs


----------



## DaSlacker

Interesting to see how the rating holds up from here on. Big E will likely hold that title until next year, so they have a new face on top, and the Raw roster is stronger than it was. But still short on star power and interesting storylines.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> Interesting to see how the rating holds up from here on. Big E will likely hold that title until next year, so they have a new face on top, and the Raw roster is stronger than it was. But still short on star power and interesting storylines.


Aside from Drew, no babyface has held the Raw title for longer than 90 days in the last seven years. I imagine Big E loses before January.


----------



## Mongstyle

DaSlacker said:


> Interesting to see how the rating holds up from here on. Big E will likely hold that title until next year, so they have a new face on top, and the Raw roster is stronger than it was. But still short on star power and interesting storylines.


That depends, but it probably won't. Also, I don't think it's fair to really put what happens from here on out on Big E. He's a midcard act who they threw the title on without any actual build. They're trying to build him while he's champion. This never works. So he's already screwed anyway. He also has no big angles to actually work. That's not to say he can't be blamed, but he is also obviously not the established top talent on the show. He's being built now. He will share part of the blame, but you'd also have to look toward Edge, Becky, Seth, Bianca etc.

Smackdown just did 2.25 million viewers off the back of the draft, so it clearly got some bump from it, even if nothing major compared to other years in the past.

This Raw they were also advertising the draft all week long, as well as Goldberg who, despite smark hate, has produced some level of bump for ratings every time he has returned from an extended absence. Not to mention, MNF was delayed last night. Those are the likely 3 factors that helped here.

Moving forward, they're in a more difficult position. Essentially they will have to try and keep "hyping" Raw by doing big things, but this does wear off in time. The major thing they've got going right now is that they are probably going to be somewhat competitive until Survivor Series on some weeks since the brand warfare will likely lead to them doing shenanigans. I'm guessing they want to target 1.7-1.8 million viewers or around there as much as they can.

Plus since the draft changes don't take effect until after Crown Jewel, they can hype that Raw up as a special Raw of sorts. Then we're straight into brand warfare anyway.

But I imagine by the time we're done with Survivor Series, they will start settling around 1.7 million and less. This is a big moment for WWE because it is going to tell them everything. They've loaded up Raw with every major talent they've invested in aside from 2 guys. Smackdown is essentially going to be hard carried by Reigns, which is nothing new really, but it's clear WWE is hoping all of Edge, Seth, Lashley, Orton, Balor, Styles, Becky, Bianca, Owens, and Big E as a new fan favourite champion is going to help them be competitive against MNF.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Relatively stable viewership this week.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

kazarn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445491834948505603


Is that Good for Raw?


----------



## Pokitren

Fearless Viper said:


> Monday’s live post-Extreme Rules edition of WWE RAW drew an average of 1.709 million viewers on the USA Network, according to Nielsen via Showbuzz Daily.
> 
> WWE RAW Viewership And Key Demo Rating For The Post-Extreme Rules Episode - Wrestling Home
> 
> I was too closed.


Whichever episode you take, millions of viewers are taken.
Why were you too closed?


----------



## kazarn

WWEfan4eva said:


> Is that Good for Raw?


It's better than what it's been for the past month.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Solid numbers


----------



## kazarn

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448018363364610060
Sounds about right for such an awful show.


----------



## Mongstyle

Holy shit.

That's a disaster of a rating. I honestly thought they'd start struggling with getting over 1.7 million when Survivor Series is over but this is is crazy. Sub 1.6 million post-draft in October. Fucking hell. They're gonna be in deep shit by the time we're in late November if this isn't some kind of anomaly.

Although on the one hand, I guess this is what happens when you advertise a Raw based off a midcarder who was hot-shotted a title, a guy who immediately after his Rumble win was already looking like he'd be a bigger flop than Seth was the previous year, and the "Women's Revolution" which at this point is a pretty obvious flop that has turned away people.

If WWE is actually planning on Reigns/Brock for Mania, I hope they abort that plan because Raw is going to die a horrible death in the meantime. They need to get this Reigns/Brock feud over with in the next 1-2 months and send Brock to Raw by Rumble season to save this shit show.


----------



## kazarn

Mongstyle said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> That's a disaster of a rating. I honestly thought they'd start struggling with getting over 1.7 million when Survivor Series is over but this is is crazy. Sub 1.6 million post-draft in October. Fucking hell. They're gonna be in deep shit by the time we're in late November if this isn't some kind of anomaly.
> 
> Although on the one hand, I guess this is what happens when you advertise a Raw based off a midcarder who was hot-shotted a title, a guy who immediately after his Rumble win was already looking like he'd be a bigger flop than Seth was the previous year, and the "Women's Revolution" which at this point is a pretty obvious flop that has turned away people.
> 
> If WWE is actually planning on Reigns/Brock for Mania, I hope they abort that plan because Raw is going to die a horrible death in the meantime. They need to get this Reigns/Brock feud over with in the next 1-2 months and send Brock to Raw by Rumble season to save this shit show.


There's nothing interesting going on Raw right now. I really only watch it out of habit, it's an abomination. Smackdown is a lot better (albeit with problems still) with the Brock/Reigns and Edge/Rollins feuds.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth will bring back some viewers.


----------



## SPCDRI

There's top tier sporting competition going on, MLB numbers are up huge from last year with the full season and crowds back. Monday Night Football continues to be a juggernaut actually up 3 percent in the last 10 years when RAW is down more than 60 percent. The game became a very entertaining comeback game, one of the better regular season games so far. 

You combine top tier competition with one of the shabbier RAWs so far this year and its going to be a bloodbath. 

That's a bottom 10 all time in total viewership and 18-49. As baseball goes on, as Monday Night Football becomes more impactful, as basketball and hockey return and heat up, we could be looking at some outrageously bad numbers this November and December. My feeling is a bottom 10 rating is only the beginning.


----------



## Fearless Viper

What was the competition that night?


----------



## kazarn

Fearless Viper said:


> What was the competition that night?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448018365868564487


----------



## Rankles75

RAW really should stop going head to head with MNF, it’s a no-win situation for them. Doesn’t help that there’s no compelling storylines going on at the moment either.


----------



## Zappers

I blame the Miz. He's sabotaging his employer.


----------



## ElTerrible

Rankles75 said:


> RAW really should stop going head to head with MNF, it’s a no-win situation for them. Doesn’t help that there’s no compelling storylines going on at the moment either.


Vince: Unfortunately we are entered in another legal dispute similar to the World Wildlife Fund. The NFL is claiming the copyright Monday Night, so we are forced to become Tuesday Night Raw.


----------



## ThirdMan

It's to be expected. There was a TON of football and playoff baseball competition last night, particularly in the big California markets (where RAW took place), and a lot of viewers are gonna consider this a lull before the roster changes take effect (some of the comments here from those who didn't watch even stated as much). We'll see what happens once all of those upper-midcard male talents move over from SD, and they get some stories rolling beyond the Saudi stuff.


----------



## Randy Lahey

It’ll go way lower than that. People tuned in to see the results of the draft and have tuned right back out


----------



## Cosmo77

wouldnt be better of RAW Was on tuesday instead of Monday?,Positives better night,people are in a better mood,etc


----------



## DaSlacker

Unsurprising. Look at it from a casual observer point of view. 

- New world champion won it via a cheap cash in after spending a decade in the midcard. His first feud is with another babyface who is switching to the other brand.

- Stop start pushes for Kross (looks silly), Keith Lee (random nickname), Doudrop (annoying), Bazler (scared of a doll not so long ago), Austin Theory (who?). 

- KOTR/QOTR tournaments are a total dud. 

- Mustafa Ali turns heel on Mansoor. Very few care. 

- Green but scary Omos beats likeable Riddle in two minutes in a throwaway match. Build towards that for six months and you might have something. 

Only thing worth looking at was the women's tag match. It had a cop out finish.


----------



## WWEfan4eva

kazarn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448018365868564487


I'm guessing Vince & USA is not happy

Expect major changes to Raw Next Week


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

There's not a whole lot to keep casual fans interested, I get they're in a transition period where the new roster isn't set yet, but that's no excuse. You'd hope after the Draft that guys like Karrion Kross and Keith Lee are more prominently featured and given decent pushes over the guys like Kevin Owens and Finn Balor.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Terrible numbers this week. 

Raw has more talent on the roster since the draft so hopefully some kind of improvement going forward.


----------



## RLT1981

not that WWE would ever do it cause of money but a good idea is to shut down after Summerslam every year and give wrestlers the fall off to heal and give writers a chance to regroup and gets things ready for the return in January(first monday of the newyear) with the countdown to Rumble and road to Wrestemania. 

It also gives Fans a break and maybe they will miss it and they gain somemore when they come back in January.


----------



## Kishido

Deserved. Shit show


----------



## IronMan8

I don’t watch anymore.

How do you guys do it?


----------



## Prosper

RLT1981 said:


> not that WWE would ever do it cause of money but a good idea is to shut down after Summerslam every year and give wrestlers the fall off to heal and give writers a chance to regroup and gets things ready for the return in January(first monday of the newyear) with the countdown to Rumble and road to Wrestemania.
> 
> It also gives Fans a break and maybe they will miss it and they gain somemore when they come back in January.


Or they can just stop booking the same people on every show and end the brand split.


----------



## RLT1981

Prosper said:


> Or they can just stop booking the same people on every show and end the brand split.


that will work to lol

to be honest its plenty of stuff they could do but refuse cause they too lazy and don't care.


----------



## DaSlacker

RLT1981 said:


> that will work to lol
> 
> to be honest its plenty of stuff they could do but refuse cause they too lazy and don't care.


Call up nearly everybody from NXT who is over 30 and been wrestling for 5 years. 

Shave an hour off Raw. Shave an hour off NXT 2.0. Short term losses for long term gain. 

Stop 50/50 booking and bring back bullet point promos and small team writing.

There has to be a cut off point where they get their act together.


----------



## Serpico Jones

McMahon needs to do something to save this turkey. Wake up, Vince, you old fuck!


----------



## Chelsea

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450555062158303236


----------



## postmoderno

Still deserves to be a lot lower.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Raw wins the Fri-Mon battle! What an amazing show! Can't be disputed they had the best one.


----------



## InexorableJourney




----------



## Botchy SinCara




----------



## Fearless Viper

So a tough competition against NFL and MLB. Still at top 10 though.


----------



## Garty

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110459


Is this taken from this weeks forthcoming quarterly earnings report?

If they're in the business to make money solely from the consumer, they're in trouble. It just shows how much WWE has relied on the TV rights and marketing side of its business, but if they don't have any people around to consume everything WWE produces, all those business ties become pretty useless over time.

I said it at the beginning of this year, that WWE would likely be up for sale soon. According to this graph, it looks about as good as it's going to get... at least in the near short-term.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I mean it's RAW at the end of the day, I doubt you'll find an actual fan who enjoys WWE that can say they enjoy RAW. NXT and SmackDown sure, I understand enjoying them, but not RAW.

With RAW you take the 20 minutes of good stuff and that's it. I've gone back and watched a few episodes of RAW from 2003 and the quality is just so much better, and that's when RAW was considered unwatchable back then!!


----------



## RLT1981

ratings needs to fall below 1 million before they might get the message.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Live shows with attendance vs Thunderdome shows clearly make no difference for Raw. They are going to keep bleeding till they are well below AEW in 18-49 at least..


----------



## DaSlacker

Garty said:


> Is this taken from this weeks forthcoming quarterly earnings report?
> 
> If they're in the business to make money solely from the consumer, they're in trouble. It just shows how much WWE has relied on the TV rights and marketing side of its business, but if they don't have any people around to consume everything WWE produces, all those business ties become pretty useless over time.
> 
> I said it at the beginning of this year, that WWE would likely be up for sale soon. According to this graph, it looks about as good as it's going to get... at least in the near short-term.


Yeah, in terms of consumer confidence they are back in the mid 90's. They were very clever or lucky to sell the TV rights to Raw and SmackDown separately. And to be fair the red brand is still king when it comes to scripted original content on cable. Those numbers are on a downward trent though and eventually will hit 1 million. They are feeling the effects of years of criticised storylines, playing nearly everything for laughs and 50/50 booking. AEW is problematic for them because it highlights how someone can produce 100s of hours of similar content and consistently bring in 1 million viewers. For a lot cheaper. 

Funny thing is I actually doubt Vince will sell. He's too much of a control freak and carny at heart. More likely the stock drops by 75% and they downsize.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Fearless Viper said:


> So a tough competition against NFL and MLB. Still at top 10 though.


No, no. Top 10 in the 18-49 demo but WWE fans have been telling me nonstop that the demos don't count. So no top 10. Maybe top 25ish. Yay.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This is why they moved practically the entire SD roster over to RAW.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

.39 Holy Shit that is bad


----------



## SPCDRI

There's a lot of reasons for this, and the competition was ferocious, but when I watch WWE, I feel like they waste my time with too many fuck finishes. Between RAW, Smackdown and NXT they are averaging about 1 of them a week. I saw a graphic from January to last Friday that there were at least 72 of them on WWE TV shows. 

Who really was excited for Charlotte/Bianca when it was going to be a run in or Charlotte deliberately DQing herself? That was WWE's at least 72nd time this year where they screwed people on the ending. That was after Becky/Sasha for a title commercial free on a special Smackdown was a fuck finish, too. 
They save it all for the streaming services and Saudi Arabia and screw people on the tv matches. Its like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and Lucy keeps yanking it away. After time number 100, 200, 300+ in however many years, people go, "Eh, why try to kick the football?"

I think they ought to do something kayfabe wise to stop all the distractions and champions cheating to retain to give people more of a reason to watch these tv shows and stop it with all the crutches and lazy booking.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RAW continuously puts out a terrible show so of course they're going to continue bringing in terrible ratings. That's what happens when your show's top champions are Becky Lynch and Big E, you're not going to bring in new fans or retain your audience with those two as your top two champions. Attendance speaks for itself, 12k arena last week and they only got 4k fans, nobody wants to see these two lead RAW.

I hope RAW drops down to 1.3 million or even lower to get through to the WWE that Becky and Big E are the wrong ones to push. You'll have smarks online say "But it's Vince and Bruce's fault!!" Nah it's because Becky and Big E fucking suck. 

Dynamite will surpass RAW in viewership or get close to it really soon, but that's also not because Dynamite are putting on good shows, it's because RAW is shit.


----------



## Not Lying

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> RAW continuously puts out a terrible show so of course they're going to continue bringing in terrible ratings. That's what happens when your show's top champions are Becky Lynch and Big E, you're not going to bring in new fans or retain your audience with those two as your top two champions. Attendance speaks for itself, 12k arena last week and they only got 4k fans, nobody wants to see these two lead RAW.
> 
> I hope RAW drops down to 1.3 million or even lower to get through to the WWE that Becky and Big E are the wrong ones to push. You'll have smarks online say "But it's Vince and Bruce's fault!!" Nah it's because Becky and Big E fucking suck.
> 
> Dynamite will surpass RAW in viewership or get close to it really soon, but that's also not because Dynamite are putting on good shows, it's because RAW is shit.


FFS Becky’s not even on RAW yet and Charlotte’s been the champ for 2 months, but of course a biased geek caricature like you shifts the blame 🤣

Goldberg was on RAW too. The guy SUCKS and doesn’t move the needle AT ALL.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Definition of Technician said:


> FFS Becky’s not even on RAW yet and Charlotte’s been the champ for 2 months, but of course a biased geek caricature like you shifts the blame 🤣
> 
> Goldberg was on RAW too. The guy SUCKS and doesn’t move the needle AT ALL.


Brother Becky Lynch was pushed as the face of RAW when it was going down the shitter back in 2019, she was drawing awful crowds, hell even in 2018 when she was pushed heavy on SmackDown there's plenty of photo evidence of her cutting promos to tarped audiences. She has never been a draw and seems to turn everything she touches to shit. 

Don't get me started on Charlotte either because she's fucking terrible too.


----------



## DammitChrist

Imagine having the nerve to blame 2 great female talents in Becky Lynch and Charlotte Flair instead of creative management itself for the declining audience over the past several years. 

In case you've forgotten, ratings STILL continued to sink while BOTH women were absent last summer; so how the heck are they responsible for the low ratings? 

They'd STILL get mediocre numbers in spite of Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, or even Big E.


----------



## justin waynes

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Brother Becky Lynch was pushed as the face of RAW when it was going down the shitter back in 2019, she was drawing awful crowds, hell even in 2018 when she was pushed heavy on SmackDown there's plenty of photo evidence of her cutting promos to tarped audiences. She has never been a draw and seems to turn everything she touches to shit.
> 
> Don't get me started on Charlotte either because she's fucking terrible too.


Corbin,Becky,Lacey Evans had showed up,had more matches on raw than Becky lynch back in 2019 ,stats proves it. Also Sasha and Becky are bigger draws than 80% of those uncharismatic guys on raw


----------



## justin waynes

DammitChrist said:


> Imagine having the nerve to blame 2 great female talents in Becky Lynch and Charlotte Flair instead of creative management itself for the declining audience over the past several years.
> 
> In case you've forgotten, ratings STILL continued to sink while BOTH women were absent last summer; so how the heck are they responsible for the low ratings?
> 
> They'd STILL get mediocre numbers in spite of Becky Lynch, Charlotte Flair, or even Big E.


Don't argue with every clueless dude out here. Even overrated roman did just 1.7 million views on raw despite having 2 matches. The storyline and booking is shit. Repeatetive matches and bad storyline is the problem. No one is so special in wwe for a fan to tune into except for maybe brock. Fans tune in for good storyline but clueless expert here won't admit.


----------



## DaSlacker

The show is confused and creatively bankrupt, but I'm not convinced it would be significantly higher even if watertight. Every other scripted show on cable TV is in the 300,000 - 900,000 viewers range. They'd need to find a new Rock n Wrestling or WWF Attitude for Raw to go above 2.5 million on a regular basis now. 25 years ago, back when Raw and Nitro were starting to shoot up the ratings you had shows like Rugrats, Family Matters and Kenan and Kel attracting 4 million viewers. If anything, wrestling is over performing and Raw is still a lot higher than a TV executive would expect.


----------



## Kishido

Bad numbers for a bad show.


----------



## thorwold

Um, hour three held even from hour one? Was UP in the demo? Has the WWE found someone people actually want to watch?? I mean we can assume it isn't the one who has headlined Raw a bunch of times before, right?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I can't imagine the numbers will be good this week even though the show they had tonight wasn't too bad.


----------



## DaSlacker

1,658,000 viewers and 0.47 demo. 

Got a little boost from the Season Premiere hype. 

Seems like 1.6 million is their core base during football season.


----------



## Kentucky34

Best number for weeks.

Seth gave them a spike in viewership.


----------



## justin waynes

Kentucky34 said:


> Best number for weeks.
> 
> Seth gave them a spike in viewership.


Ouve started with this awful gimmick of yours once again. You were silent for some while now


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's an increase which is good, I thought it wasn't too bad of a show. They need to keep getting better though.


----------



## Kishido

Better demo!!! Awesome numbers!


----------



## Kentucky34

They made the right moves last week. This week's number should be higher than last weeks.


----------



## SPCDRI

Basically the same demo and a viewership increase of about 40,000. I know people call you a smark if you want wrestling, but I liked the larger amount of wrestling on the show. Their in-ring is better than the out of ring stuff now. Its been that way for years. Why not lean into the strength?

I think last night's RAW was their best show in months and a step in the right direction.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Two straight increases since the new Raw roster and two better quality shows than they've had in months. No question Seth and Becky have contributed and Big E was practically dying out there pre-draft. Woof. Becky's not a draw, even though she's the most popular female on the roster and gets CHEERED even while a heel over their top babyfaces. 

That's also up against a very close NFL game (20-17) with a HUGE market team in that game (New York) and Patrick Mahomes who is hugely popular and one of the best QB's in the game.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth delivers once again.


----------



## Not Lying

This number is even up on last year, not just last week, so an improvement


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> This number is even up on last year, not just last week, so an improvement


Raw has the much better roster than SD now and it shows.


----------



## .christopher.

justin waynes said:


> Ouve started with this awful gimmick of yours once again. You were silent for some while now


He got caught talking to himself with another account a while ago and has kept his head down since his ban. Probably thinks it's all forgotten about now.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458181390390923278

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Boy Wonder

The first hour did 1,654,000 viewers with a 0.44 demo rating while hour two did 1,621,000 with 0.43 demo rating, and the third hour drew 1,373,000 viewers with a 0.34 demo rating.

The Bears/Steelers game got interesting in the 4th quarter.


----------



## Kishido

Hey Kentucky... What are you saying about the draw Rollins?

But well... Bad numbers


----------



## postmoderno

The Boy Wonder said:


> The first hour did 1,654,000 viewers with a 0.44 demo rating while hour two did 1,621,000 with 0.43 demo rating, and the third hour drew 1,373,000 viewers with a 0.34 demo rating.
> 
> The Bears/Steelers game got interesting in the 4th quarter.


They were also watching 2 hours of RAW and at that point falling asleep or ready to kill themselves.


----------



## dcruz

Kevin Owens?? Twitter fave Liv Morgan isn't a draw either? Well all the girls really, that's too bad


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> No Seth. Less viewers.
> 
> RAW is the only wrestling show showing growth right now. Seth is the reason.
> 
> Reigns isn't a TV draw.


*THE MONDAY NIGHT MESSIAH IS BACK IN FULL FORCE WITH ALL TIME LOW RATINGS!!! *🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458185576704790539


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *THE MONDAY NIGHT MESSIAH IS BACK!!! *🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458185576704790539
> View attachment 111528


Your guy lost to the freaking Bunny over 2 weeks ago  

Sit your behind down for once 😂😂

Edit:

Imagine taking a gimmick account THIS seriously too


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*"RAW is so stacked. Smackdown lost all their best men. Becky Lynch is the biggest star in the women's division." The terrible hot takes after the draft got blown to shit within two weeks! 🤣😂😆*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Your guy lost to the freaking Bunny over 2 weeks ago
> 
> Sit your behind down for once 😂😂
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Imagine taking a gimmick account THIS seriously too


Who the fuck is "THE BUNNY" and how the hell does someone who has main evented WM about a billion times (with mostly SHIT matches too, btw) lose to it?   

SD has been STRAIGHT TRASH since the draft in terms of quality. They have no 3rd hour, are on national television, don't go head to head with the NFL and STILL BARELY hit 2 million viewers. Fuck, their second hour didn't even hit it in the overnights this past week.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *"RAW is so stacked. Smackdown lost all their best men. Becky Lynch is the biggest star in the women's division." The terrible hot takes after the draft got blown to shit within two weeks! 🤣😂😆*


Imagine thinking that a depleted Smackdown roster that only has Drew McIntyre, Jeff Hardy, New Day, Usos, and Sheamus to deal with the boring Universal Champion (along with Charlotte Flair plus Sasha Banks on the women's side) *competes *with Raw's stacked roster of Randy Orton, AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Big E, Riddle, Finn Balor, Dolph Ziggler, Robert Roode, etc. in ANY way 

Imagine thinking that Becky Lynch, who was SO over that her popularity catapulted her into main-eventing Wrestlemania 35 (1 of the first 3 women to do so AND the 1st woman to win as well), "isn't" the biggest female star in the company 😂

Imagine blatantly taking shots at others (in the MOST unfriendly/disrespectful/arrogant) way possible for having "terrible takes" when you do a good job doing that yourself 

Imagine having the audacity to continue mocking other wrestlers when your dude lost the younger audience to the Bunny, and you continue to no-sell it pretending like that hilarious fact never happened.

Nah, you're taking these Ls yourself, 'm8.' It's quite fitting too.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Who the fuck is "THE BUNNY" and how the hell does someone who has main evented WM about a billion times (with mostly SHIT matches too, btw) lose to it?
> 
> SD has been STRAIGHT TRASH since the draft in terms of quality. They have no 3rd hour, are on national television, don't go head to head with the NFL and STILL BARELY hit 2 million viewers. Fuck, their second hour didn't even hit it in the overnights this past week.


Dude, she's a low-midcarder in the AEW women's division, and more of the younger audience chose to watch her wrestle Ruby Soho (who was a TALENTED low-midcarder in WWE that was fired earlier this year) over the boring, overpushed Universal Champion having a contract signing with Brock Lesnar.

It's freaking hilarious 😂 

Edit:

For the record, the Bunny skips like AJ Lee used to during her entrance if you want that funny visual


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, she's a low-midcarder in the AEW women's division, and more of the younger audience chose to watch her wrestle Ruby Soho (who was a TALENTED low-midcarder in WWE that was fired earlier this year) over the boring, overpushed Universal Champion having a contract signing with Brock Lesnar.
> 
> It's freaking hilarious 😂
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, the Bunny skips like AJ Lee used to during her entrance if you want that funny visual


Oh, man. That's hilarious. That's the first I'm hearing of this.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The hits keep on coming. Seth is just doing what he does best to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention for the last 6 years:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458196549792583680*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The hits keep on coming. Seth is just doing what he does best to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention for the last 6 years:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458196549792583680*


You're still no-selling that HUGE L that your dude took recently, and now you're just taking shots to someone else (in lame fashion) to hide that embarrassment  

It's baffling how it's 2021, and you're STILL one of those folks who are incapable of understanding the decade-long ratings trend where the viewership slowly continues to decrease no matter who they push.


----------



## sara sad

The Legit DMD said:


> *"RAW is so stacked. Smackdown lost all their best men. Becky Lynch is the biggest star in the women's division." The terrible hot takes after the draft got blown to shit within two weeks! 🤣😂😆*


The people acting like RAW is so great suddenly are so funny.

It's still trash 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

sara sad said:


> The people acting like RAW is so great suddenly are so funny.
> 
> It's still trash 😂


If Raw is "trash" now, then Smackdown is absolutely pure, rotten GARBAGE atm.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

sara sad said:


> The people acting like RAW is so great suddenly are so funny.
> 
> It's still trash 😂


*I knew this would blow up in their faces on draft day. They posted all this bullshit to shade Roman and it backfired in record time, in the form of ALL TIME LOW ratings. Love to see it.

"Sasha's not a star." 

Gives FS1 their highest rating ever.

"Smackdown is nothing without Rollins."

Stays above 2 mil while he tanks RAW ratings. *


----------



## sara sad

DammitChrist said:


> If Raw is "trash" now, then Smackdown is absolutely pure GARBAGE atm.


I don't disagree 🤷‍♂️

Both are bad but people are not hyping up SD as some must see TV like they do with RAW.

They are both bad shows.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> You're still no-selling that HUGE L that your dude took recently, and now you're just taking shots to someone else (in lame fashion) to hide that embarrassment
> 
> It's baffling how it's 2021, and you're STILL one of those folks who are incapable of understanding the decade-long ratings trend where the viewership slowly continues to decrease no matter who they push.


You would think with someone who has main evented WM more than anyone else in this era and who's been Champion for over a year that they wouldn't lose to every other Network in that timeslot (outside of shitty CW), but nope. Pushed to be dominant and still gets that ass beat by CBS, NBC, ABC, and My9 every Friday night in that timeslot.

And then to lose to the fucking BUNNY on AEW's B-Show,    Awesomely hilarious.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

People are saying the 1,373,000 number for hour 3 is the lowest viewership for a particular hour in history. That's incorrect, right?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I knew this would blow up in their faces on draft day. They posted all this bullshit to shade Roman and it backfired in record times, in the form of record low ratings. *


Folks are still in the right to do that because he JUST lost to the BUNNY recently.

@The Legit DMD still pretending like *one* talent (the SAME dude who sucked up to Seth Rollins's character work via praise/compliments just a couple of months ago) is "tanking" the ratings 😂

Get a clue once you admit that your dude lost to the Bunny


----------



## DammitChrist

The Boy Wonder said:


> People are saying the 1,373,000 number for hour 3 is the lowest viewership for a particular hour in history. That's incorrect, right?


It's either that, or it's 2nd to some other hour in 2011 apparently.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Boy Wonder said:


> People are saying the 1,373,000 number for hour 3 is the lowest viewership for a particular hour in history. That's incorrect, right?


*Thurston is usually right, so no.*


----------



## Rhetro

LOL and to think there were jabronis in the raw thread last night talking about how well booked the show was and the final hour and matches.

I swear it’s like these die hard wwe guys are liek scientology people just absolutely indoctrinated and hypnotized they can’t see reality.

I grew up on WWE. What I see now is not what WWE was this is trash and it’s been trash since 2018 roughly worse and worse.

they earned these ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhetro said:


> LOL and to think there were jabronis in the raw thread last night talking about how well booked the show was and the final hour and matches.
> 
> I swear it’s like these die hard wwe guys are liek scientology people just absolutely indoctrinated and hypnotized they can’t see reality.
> 
> I grew up on WWE. What I see now is not what WWE was this is trash and it’s been trash since 2018 roughly worse and worse.
> 
> they earned these ratings


Oh, come on. I've seen WAY worse episodes of Raw in 2020 around August/September and in 2019 (where there were way more uneventful shows) that did higher ratings that weren't earned then.

Last night's episode was pretty much middle-of-the-road quality-wise.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, come on. I've seen WAY worse episodes of Raw in 2020 around August/September and in 2019 (where there were way more uneventful shows) that did higher ratings that weren't earned then.
> 
> Last night's episode was pretty much middle-of-the-road quality-wise.


What were the matches on when SD lost to the Bunny on AEW's B-Show? I need to know.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> What were the matches on when SD lost to the Bunny on AEW's B-Show? I need to know.


CM Punk vs Matt Sydal on Rampage beat Becky Lynch vs Sasha Banks on Smackdown by a great margin.

Ruby Soho vs Bunny on Rampage and the contract signing with the current Universal Champion plus Brock Lesnar on Smackdown were fairly close, but the former beat the latter via younger adults (in spite of the disadvantage of having a commercial break).

This was just 30 minutes head-to-head though.

There was also the Inner Circle (Chris Jericho/Sammy Guevara/Jake Hager) vs American Top Team (Ethan Page/Scorpio Sky/Junior Dos Santos) in the main-event of Rampage, but that was unopposed.

Punk's match beat anything else that occurred on both shows in those 30 minutes head-to-head by a wide degree.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> CM Punk vs Matt Sydal on Rampage beat Becky Lynch vs Sasha Banks on Smackdown by a great margin.
> 
> Ruby Soho vs Bunny on Rampage and the contract signing with the current Universal Champion plus Brock Lesnar on Smackdown were fairly close, but the former beat the latter via younger adults (in spite of the disadvantage of having a commercial break).
> 
> This was just 30 minutes head-to-head though.
> 
> There was also the Inner Circle (Chris Jericho/Sammy Guevara/Jake Hager) vs American Top Team (Ethan Page/Scorpio Sky/Junior Dos Santos) in the main-event of Rampage, but that was unopposed.
> 
> Punk's match beat anything else that occurred on both shows in those 30 minutes head-to-head by a wide degree.


Wait a second. Sasha Banks? The BIGGEST DRAW IN WWE TODAY...LOST TO THE BUNNY, TOO?!?!?!

Holy shit, who would'a thunk it?  

So, Raw lost to the NFL, and SD and it's biggest names and "DRAWS, BRO" lost AEW's B-Show featuring the Bunny and EVAN BOURNE!? LOL.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

If AEW maintained their September numbers they could've been challenging RAW right now.


----------



## DaSlacker

That 3rd hour is really low for WWE but higher than most stuff on cable 🤯. It's a crazy situation. 

Unsurprising really - should be much lower when you take into what Rampage does. 

Said it before but I can get more entertainment from Superstars and Raw from three decades ago. Simply because WWE today is so damn slow and monotonous and politically correct. Plus most of the roster have been around for years in the same spot: Dolph, AJ, Big E, Lashley, Rey, Owens, Seth, Orton. Then there's the sillly 24/7 stuff. You get invested in a new guy - like Kross and Lee - then they fire them.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> If AEW maintained their September numbers they could've been challenging RAW right now.


They're all not too far away from eachother. SD does the 'best' and it's barely doing two million. That's only 4-500K away from what Raw did last night...with Raw going head to head with the NFL.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> They're all not too far away from eachother. SD does the 'best' and it's barely doing two million. That's only 4-500K away from what Raw did last night...with Raw going head to head with the NFL.


SmackDown is skewed by being on FOX. Move it to USA or FS1 permanently I'm sure it would struggle to ever hit 1.5 million.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Y'all really debating Smackdown vs Raw on who is worse. It's Smackdown. Raw on USA is in around 90 million homes and pulls in 1.6 million and runs against the NFL. Smackdown is in (I've seen several numbers. For this I'm going with the lowest number I've seen) 128 million homes at least and pulls in 2 million viewers against no competition. Think about that. In a pool that is 38 million viewers larger, Smackdown can barely eek out an additional 500k. This isn't a contest. It's a fatality.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Showstopper said:


> They're all not too far away from eachother. SD does the 'best' and it's barely doing two million. That's only 4-500K away from what Raw did last night...with Raw going head to head with the NFL.


I'm surprised AEW didn't maintain their numbers after Punk and Bryan came in. I thought for sure their numbers would be steady.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Boy Wonder said:


> I'm surprised AEW didn't maintain their numbers after Punk and Bryan came in. I thought for sure their numbers would be steady.


They got shuffled off to Saturday nights for a couple weeks derailing their momentum. It'll come back soon enough. Probably just after Full Gear.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Boy Wonder said:


> I'm surprised AEW didn't maintain their numbers after Punk and Bryan came in. I thought for sure their numbers would be steady.


Yea, the move to Saturday nights for 2 weeks hurt them unfortunately since they've consistently held over 1 million viewers (with CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, and Ruby Soho) for over a month up until that change occurred.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Boy Wonder said:


> I'm surprised AEW didn't maintain their numbers after Punk and Bryan came in. I thought for sure their numbers would be steady.


Being moved to Saturday for a couple of weeks killed their momentum. Followed by going head to head with World Series and new NBA season. 

Punk and Danielson star aura being overexposed in long matches with low card guys on B show. 

The very WWE lite Ghostbusters cosplay main event. Complete with an abducted guy being switched with someone else, comedy mistaken identity, overacting etc. 

May or may not have been factors. Or simple audience fatigue from 12 hours of wrestling on national TV every week.


----------



## Irish Jet

ShadowCounter said:


> They got shuffled off to Saturday nights for a couple weeks derailing their momentum. It'll come back soon enough. Probably just after Full Gear.


Most of AEW’s product just doesn’t appeal to casuals. They cater to a niche audience but trash like the Young Bucks kissing guys dressed as the ghostbusters are what make people embarrassed to be wrestling fans.

If everything was like MJF’s promos or Punk/Kingston they’d keep viewers. Sadly the inmates are running the asylum and have to get their circus act to be a huge feature of the show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

"Guys RAW totally has the better roster and they're totally the better show!"

They just shifted all the guys on SD who sucked like Rollins, Owens and Balor and moved them to RAW. RAW still sucks and is the single worst wrestling show right now, how people can sit through this garbage I have no idea. 

And before people even come at me with "Oh shut up SD fanboy!!" SmackDown fucking sucks too right now, but a show that has Roman Reigns on it becomes more entertaining by default, since he's the only one worth watching in WWE right now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> Y'all really debating Smackdown vs Raw on who is worse. It's Smackdown. Raw on USA is in around 90 million homes and pulls in 1.6 million and runs against the NFL. Smackdown is in (I've seen several numbers. For this I'm going with the lowest number I've seen) 128 million homes at least and pulls in 2 million viewers against no competition. Think about that. In a pool that is 38 million viewers larger, Smackdown can barely eek out an additional 500k. This isn't a contest. It's a fatality.


1000% true and pathetic. They lost literally 50% of their audience from the first SD on FOX and that was only 2 years ago. I will admit since this most recent draft it doesn't help that their roster got obliterated.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> "Guys RAW totally has the better roster and they're totally the better show!"


Raw HAS been the better show post-draft.

Seriously, how do you STILL not understand that quantity doesn't equate to quality?

Has Indy NXT being the best wrestling show on TV since late 2019 up until early September not compute with you at all?

You really think the main-roster shows with higher viewership were automatically "better" shows during that time frame?



> They just shifted all the guys on SD who sucked like Rollins, Owens and Balor and moved them to RAW. RAW still sucks and is the single worst wrestling show right now, how people can sit through this garbage I have no idea.


Except for the fact that Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, and Finn Balor are top-tier talents who Smackdown lost out on 😂

NXT 2.0 and Smackdown are WAY worse to watch than Raw post-draft (since this show is actually decent now). You're the last one on here to judge what's "garbage" considering the fact that YOU stan for NXT 2.0, and how that mediocre revamp "brought your love back for 'wrestling'" (which is just freaking sad).

It's like you're upset at the hype that Raw got with the superior roster weeks ago, and you're just taking this time to vent out your anger.



> And before people even come at me with "Oh shut up SD fanboy!!" SmackDown fucking sucks too right now, but a show that has Roman Reigns on it becomes more entertaining by default, since he's the only one worth watching in WWE right now.


The fact that Smackdown still features the boring current Universal Champion and Baron Corbin as prominent acts automatically makes it mediocre to watch. Both men are BIG reasons why that show freaking sucks to watch.

Seriously, you bash TALENTED guys like Rollins, Owens, and Balor (who are far more entertaining btw); but yet you'd rather watch 1 more year of the inferior talent in the current Universal Champion with no shame whatsoever.

Yea, you don't get wrestling nor do you understand ratings at all.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Raw HAS been the better show post-draft.
> 
> Seriously, how do you STILL not understand that quantity doesn't equate to quality?
> 
> Has Indy NXT being the best wrestling show on TV since late 2019 up until early September not compute with you at all?
> 
> You really think the main-roster shows with higher viewership were automatically "better" shows during that time frame?
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the fact that Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, and Finn Balor are top-tier talents who Smackdown lost out on 😂
> 
> NXT 2.0 and Smackdown are WAY worse to watch than Raw post-draft (since this show is actually decent now). You're the last one on here to judge what's "garbage" considering the fact that YOU stan for NXT 2.0, and how that mediocre revamp "brought your love back for 'wrestling'" (which is just freaking sad).
> 
> It's like you're upset at the hype that Raw got with the superior roster weeks ago, and you're just taking this time to vent out your anger.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that Smackdown still features the boring current Universal Champion and Baron Corbin as prominent acts automatically makes it mediocre to watch. Both men are BIG reasons why that show freaking sucks to watch.
> 
> Seriously, you bash TALENTED guys like Rollins, Owens, and Balor (who are far more entertaining btw); but yet you'd rather watch 1 more year of the inferior talent in the current Universal Champion with no shame whatsoever.
> 
> Yea, you don't get wrestling nor do you understand ratings at all.


You're really good at saying so much without saying anything at all. And again you fall into the same trap of believing that your opinions are objectively true (Rollins and Owens being good, NXT being bad etc.) when it's all subjective. Why does it upset you so much that someone actually enjoys the new NXT 2.0 revamp, why does it upset you that some people are actually enjoying wrestling again. Is it because it's not the stuff you like? Is it because people should only like what you like and if they don't their taste in wrestling is inferior? 

You gotta drop the elitist attitude when it comes to wrestling, it's not a good look for you at all. And no anger at all my guy, if I think a show is trash I think it's trash, and that's exactly what RAW is right now for me, there's nobody to get you invested. 

Maybe one day you'll stop taking wrestling so seriously and stop getting so upset when people like stuff that you don't.


----------



## Mongstyle

Are fanboys really trying to defend this embarrassing number? Even 1.6 million would be terrible but I was thinking they'd maintain closer to 1.7 million until December.

WWE seriously needs to stop booking around Rollins and Becky etc. They cratered the ratings last time too. They were en-route to sub-2 million in 2020 without the pandemic with Becky on the show. People forget this simply because of corona and her leaving. The year before the WM35 season was a disaster compared to 2018 and was built around her at her "hottest" alongside Rollins.

What Raw needs is a refresh. The idea of Big E as something new wasn't bad but they didn't build up to it at all. They need to create a new "top" on the Raw roster. You can't rush it but going back to the same well doesn't help. No one on Raw feels like a star.

They really fucked up with Big E and Balor in the last couple months. Big E got the title as a hot shot and Balor just lost clean to Woods. They should've built up Big E and Lashley as a big deal. Balor should have never faced Reigns and should've gotten the slow build. The Woods shit was basically a near burial. Can't come back easily from shit like that. Both these dudes would've been good assets had they used them well. Then you could use guys like Rollins and Owens as support.

They also need to seriously turn Styles face. He's the only dude aside from Reigns and Lesnar who showed he worked as a top guy in the last half decade. Rather than being a tag team jabroni, he should be filling in the modern HHH/HBK role. Always in the spotlight and doing big things even if he isn't champion.

Just stupid booking. If anything, just hot shotting the title now would serve them better just to keep things unpredictable and build up credibility for some of these dudes like Owens and Balor. It worked for Edge back in the day, it'll work for these dudes. At least enough to make them seem like main eventers who can temporarily fill a spot until they get their shit sorted which doesn't look to be anytime soon.


----------



## SPCDRI

RAW and Smackdown have had a bunch of screwy finishes to title matches and main events lately. The last hour of RAW was a total drag and for them to give 25 minutes to a match and have it end it in a screwball countout was inexcusable. They did it to themselves, the show sucked and screwed the fans over again. I'm not watching RAW next week. I'm on pause mode with that. Its a 3 hour slog and time sink.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> *You're really good at saying so much without saying anything at all*. And again you fall into the same trap of believing that your opinions are objectively true (Rollins and Owens being good, NXT being bad etc.) when it's all subjective. Why does it upset you so much that someone actually enjoys the new NXT 2.0 revamp, why does it upset you that some people are actually enjoying wrestling again. Is it because it's not the stuff you like? Is it because people should only like what you like and if they don't their taste in wrestling is inferior?


I did say plenty of substance. You just chose to ignore it.

I love how you immediately followed that up by asking me questions where you pretty much said *nothing* here.



> You gotta drop the elitist attitude when it comes to wrestling, it's not a good look for you at all. And no anger at all my guy, if I think a show is trash I think it's trash, and that's exactly what RAW is right now for me, there's nobody to get you invested.


Raw is easily the 2nd most enjoyable show in WWE atm (behind NXT UK); which says A LOT about how Smackdown sucks, how NXT (2.0) has regressed, and how 205 Live is so irrelevant nowadays.



> Maybe one day you'll stop taking wrestling so seriously and stop getting so upset when people like stuff that you don't.


Says the dude who just ranted about wrestling fans thinking that Chad Gable deserving a better crowd reaction, and who just ranted about other folks preferring Raw more.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Irish Jet said:


> Most of AEW’s product just doesn’t appeal to casuals. They cater to a niche audience but trash like the Young Bucks kissing guys dressed as the ghostbusters are what make people embarrassed to be wrestling fans.


Then those people are fucktards. It was the Halloween episode. They dress up EVERY YEAR. They even did it in Japan.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> I did say plenty of substance. You just chose to ignore it.
> 
> I love how you immediately followed that up by asking me questions where you pretty much said *nothing* here.
> 
> 
> 
> Raw is easily the 2nd most enjoyable show in WWE atm (behind NXT UK); which says A LOT about how Smackdown sucks, how NXT (2.0) has regressed, and how 205 Live is so irrelevant nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> Says the dude who just ranted about wrestling fans thinking that Chad Gable deserving a better crowd reaction, and who just ranted about other folks preferring Raw more.


[/QUOTE]
You really didn't say anything of substance, you just went on a rant about how I'm wrong for liking and disliking certain things. And come on mate, if you can't answer a simple question about why you get angry when people have a different opinion to you then that's more on you than anything.

And again, RAW being better than SD and NXT is your opinion, it's not a fact, but yet again you treat it as a fact because you don't want to listen to other opinions.


----------



## Mongstyle

SPCDRI said:


> RAW and Smackdown have had a bunch of screwy finishes to title matches and main events lately. The last hour of RAW was a total drag and for them to give 25 minutes to a match and have it end it in a screwball countout was inexcusable. They did it to themselves, the show sucked and screwed the fans over again. I'm not watching RAW next week. I'm on pause mode with that. Its a 3 hour slog and time sink.


It needs more storylines.

WWE killing the midcard has hurt Raw a lot since it's 3 hours. They usually run 1 main men's angle, 1 main women's angle, and then a bunch of filler. Just not enough really. RKBro was a midcard angle that ended up becoming the main angle because there wasn't much going on.

The underlying issue still hasn't been fixed with Raw. They're trying to book Raw like Roman or Brock is main eventing. But there isn't anyone like that to anchor the shitshow. So you need to build multiple engaging stories to counter the absence of a big anchor, which they refuse to do for some reason. Even if those guys were on the show, you'd ideally want 2 supporting stories behind the main event. It's a 3 hour show. 3 big stories should be a minimum.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Seth Rollins the mighty ratings draw hahaha


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Pretty funny people are putting it on Seth when the entire show was built around Owens and all of the segments he had in all 3 hours going around and asking other wrestlers what they think of him and teasing him turning heel in the main event.

But, I get it. Seth is the bigger name, bigger star, and better talent.


----------



## Irish Jet

ShadowCounter said:


> Then those people are fucktards. It was the Halloween episode. They dress up EVERY YEAR. They even did it in Japan.


LOL

The fools dressed up their world champion and number one contender in the main event. 

Yeah I famously remember that time Stone Cold Steve Austin and Bret Hart dressed up as the Easter Bunny and The Milky Bar Kid. Good times.

It was an embarrassment to the industry and anyone older than 6 defending it is an embarrassment.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458250890708766720

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

KingofKings1524 said:


> Seth Rollins the mighty ratings draw hahaha


Great contribution as usual from you.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Showstopper said:


> Great contribution as usual from you.


Not much else needs to be said. The same people piling on Roman can’t take it when their boy gets some criticism.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

KingofKings1524 said:


> Not much else needs to be said. The same people piling on Roman can’t take it when their boy gets some criticism.


Tremendous irony here, but okay.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Showstopper said:


> Tremendous irony here, but okay.


The difference here is that I’m not going to repeat myself in the same threads week after week like all of the Roman “haters” do. He gets shit on all the time, but I’m not about to white knight for him every time someone says something negative about him like most Rollins fans do.


----------



## postmoderno

SPCDRI said:


> RAW and Smackdown have had a bunch of screwy finishes to title matches and main events lately. The last hour of RAW was a total drag and for them to give 25 minutes to a match and have it end it in a screwball countout was inexcusable. They did it to themselves, the show sucked and screwed the fans over again. I'm not watching RAW next week. I'm on pause mode with that. Its a 3 hour slog and time sink.


LATELY? It's been like that for months upon months at minimum, possibly years. Consistently. This is why it largely doesn't matter who's pushed, who's champ, who's not, what the rosters are. The shows are produced in a way that creates as little drama and tension and tells as little story as possible.

Match interruptions/fuck finishes, feuds involving no story that consist of infinite rematches with 50/50 booking, constant commercial breaks, an almost completely interchangeable roster of nameless gray faces reciting scripted, phony horseshit: It all adds up to absolutely horrendous, unwatchable TV.


----------



## DammitChrist

KingofKings1524 said:


> Not much else needs to be said. The same people piling on Roman can’t take it when their boy gets some criticism.


Dude, Seth Rollins fans don't go around the forum bragging about how their favorite is a major TV draw (except for that 1 gimmick poster).

I've always claimed how NOBODY in WWE who competes full-time is a big TV draw, and that includes all of my favorites. I've been saying that for over 3 years now.

It's not at all like how fans of the current Universal Champion are so desperate to prove to everyone else on how their favorite is such a "huge TV draw." Hell, that nonsense is even polluting the threads in the AEW section.

They are also quick to dogpile on a different talent and expose how pissed they are about many folks laughing at their top favorite still not being a 'big' TV draw in spite of his super-push. It's just very transparent to see what they are doing.

The Bunny gets the ultimate laugh anyway.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> Seth Rollins the mighty ratings draw hahaha


The ratings were strong for the first two hours. 

A tight NFL game was to blame for the low 3rd hour.

Shows wasn't built around Seth either.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *THE MONDAY NIGHT MESSIAH IS BACK IN FULL FORCE WITH ALL TIME LOW RATINGS!!! *🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458185576704790539
> View attachment 111528


Not his fault.

Do you not understand context. 

Reigns has never been a draw bro. Deal with it.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> Not his fault.
> 
> Do you not understand context.
> 
> Reigns has never been a draw bro. Deal with it.


NO ONE is a fucking draw in this day and age. And no one probably will be again unless the Rock comes back on a full time basis. Arguing about it is just stupid.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> NO ONE is a fucking draw in this day and age. And no one probably will be again unless the Rock comes back on a full time basis. Arguing about it is just stupid.


Lol people would get bored of Rock very quickly. 

Seth is the only TV draw. You can't ignore the previous two weeks where the viewership increased or the decrease in viewership since he left Smackdown. 

This week's viewership only dropped because of the close NFL game and the show being built around Owens. 

Owens is a great wrestler but he is no Rollins. Nobody is.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> Lol people would get bored of Rock very quickly.
> 
> Seth is the only TV draw. You can't ignore the previous two weeks where the viewership increased or the decrease in viewership since he left Smackdown.
> 
> This week's viewership only dropped because of the close NFL game and the show being built around Owens.
> 
> Owens is a great wrestler but he is no Rollins. Nobody is.


I know you’re a one note troll, but suggesting that people would get bored of the Rock “very quickly” is about the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard on here lately.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> I know you’re a one note troll, but suggesting that people would get bored of the Rock “very quickly” is about the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard on here lately.


I'm sorry, but The Rock was very one dimensional and an average worker. 

His act wouldn't get over today in the long term. He would be booed the same as Reigns and Goldberg are. 

He wouldn't draw either.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> I'm sorry, but The Rock was very one dimensional and an average worker.
> 
> His act wouldn't get over today in the long term. He would be booed the same as Reigns and Goldberg are.
> 
> He wouldn't draw either.


You’re absolutely right. One of the biggest stars on the entire planet would fail to draw, yet Seth Rollins is going to raise the numbers all by himself. Get the fuck out of here. You’re in dire need of a gimmick change.


----------



## Charzhino

Seth is not a draw, I've learned this now after the disastrous low rating.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> You’re absolutely right. One of the biggest stars on the entire planet would fail to draw, yet Seth Rollins is going to raise the numbers all by himself. Get the fuck out of here. You’re in dire need of a gimmick change.


Well yes, Seth has raised the numbers by himself the past few weeks. 

Rock might pop a rating once or twice but the novelty would soon wear off. His act doesn't work today.


----------



## Kentucky34

Charzhino said:


> Seth is not a draw, I've learned this now after the disastrous low rating.


Which wasn't his fault at all.


----------



## Charzhino

Kentucky34 said:


> Which wasn't his fault at all.


He was in the main event and it drew a very low hourly. There's no excuses there.


----------



## Irish Jet

Kentucky34 said:


> I'm sorry, but The Rock was very one dimensional and an average worker.
> 
> His act wouldn't get over today in the long term. He would be booed the same as Reigns and Goldberg are.
> 
> He wouldn't draw either.


Of course a guy with a Dave Rubin avatar would have this take.


----------



## Kentucky34

Charzhino said:


> He was in the main event and it drew a very low hourly. There's no excuses there.


He isn't the champion.

The show revolved around Owens. 

The NFL game was close.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Not his fault.
> 
> Do you not understand context.
> 
> Reigns has never been a draw bro. Deal with it.


*That's all you got? The main event was centered around him. Seth stays taking L's while Sasha and Roman remain undefeated. Can't relate to whatever you're going through.*


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Irish Jet said:


> LOL
> 
> The fools dressed up their world champion and number one contender in the main event.
> 
> Yeah I famously remember that time Stone Cold Steve Austin and Bret Hart dressed up as the Easter Bunny and The Milky Bar Kid. Good times.
> 
> It was an embarrassment to the industry and anyone older than 6 defending it is an embarrassment.





Irish Jet said:


> LOL
> 
> The fools dressed up their world champion and number one contender in the main event.
> 
> Yeah I famously remember that time Stone Cold Steve Austin and Bret Hart dressed up as the Easter Bunny and The Milky Bar Kid. Good times.
> 
> It was an embarrassment to the industry and anyone older than 6 defending it is an embarrassment.


Stone Cold Steve Austin dressed as Santa Claus say what?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SD on FOX debuted at 4 million viewers 2 years ago and now just 2 short years later barely does 2 million. That's a 50% drop in just two years...on the biggest TV Network that exists in FOX. There is no bigger L than that...except for maybe losing head to head to the fucking Bunny.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's all you got? The main event was centered around him. Seth stays taking L's while Sasha and Roman remain undefeated. Can't relate to whatever you're going through.*


I can't believe this dude is taking a gimmick poster this seriously 

Raw's ratings have been steadily declining over the past several years regardless of who they push, but yet you still have the audacity to blame the low viewership on an individual talent because you don't comprehend how ratings work at all. 

For the record, your dude can still relate to losing head-to-head to the Bunny 😂 

The likes of Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, and Big E can't relate to that.


----------



## The XL 2

Arguing about who is a bigger draw between Rollins and Reigns is hilarious. They both suck. The nonstop pushing of the Shield in the main event paired with the signings of vanilla midgets in the undercard basically halved the WWEs viewership over a period of 5 years. All of these arguments are meaningless, Reigns vs Rollins, Reigns vs Punk, Rollins vs Omega, etc. All these guys suck, none of them draw shit. More people watched a random Mark Jindrak low midcard match in 2005 than they do anything these "stars." do. These guys are nobodies, the business is dead. McMahon and Khan are just very lucky that they live in an era where TV companies are willing to pay massive money in the form of TV rights contracts.


----------



## Zappers

That last hour of RAW didn't do so well.

I think while people were watching that women's match. When Becky opened her mouth and started to incoherently babble, viewers thought they were having a stroke. Turn the TV off and called 911. That's my guess.


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> Arguing about who is a bigger draw between Rollins and Reigns is hilarious. They both suck.


Only one sucks actually. 

The one that is currently champion on Smackdown.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.40 I believe is Raw's lowest Demo of all time. And really a 0.40 is a number Dynamite should be able to achieve consistently. So it took a little over 2 years for Raw to sink to Dynamite's level. Now the main question will be whether Raw continues to sink further.

I've maintained all along that Dynamite doesn't have to increase their viewers to catch Raw. Raw loses enough each year that eventually Raw will be below them.


----------



## Cosmo77

raw sucks because no one wants to see a 3 hr borefest every week,raw needs to go back to 2 hrs period.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Cosmo77 said:


> raw sucks because no one wants to see a 3 hr borefest every week,raw needs to go back to 2 hrs period.


This will never happen because they get way more money for that third hour than they would get with 2 hours at double the rating. TV is weird. The more you fail the better you are.


----------



## Zappers

Cosmo77 said:


> raw sucks because no one wants to see a 3 hr borefest every week,raw needs to go back to 2 hrs period.


Putting all the network wants and ad revenue, etc... aside.

People don't realize, a 2 hour RAW needs to happen asap. Won't solve every issue, but definitely will help out a lot.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

For all the talk of one show getting better ratings than the other, especially with one being on the biggest Network channel that exists, you'd think the gap would be bigger than 400K on most weeks. The fact that Raw is even that close to SD is so sad on SD's part..


----------



## Butt Soup

You people are really arguing to see which show is the less mediocre.


----------



## ThirdMan

Brand Supremacy, baby. Just in time for Survivor Series.


----------



## ThirdMan

In all seriousness, though, I find the vast majority of stan culture to be utterly childish and embarrassing. In wrestling and in all other areas of pop culture. It's fine to enjoy the work of this wrestler or that pop artist or actor, but bragging (on their behalf?) about how much they supposedly draw is pathetic.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> In all seriousness, though, I find the vast majority of stan culture to be utterly childish and embarrassing. In wrestling and in all other areas of pop culture. It's fine to enjoy the work of this wrestler or that pop artist or actor, but bragging (on their behalf?) about how much they supposedly draw is pathetic. Grow up, people.


Completely agree. Imagine bragging about SD doing 2 million on FOX when that is less than what SD was doing on SyFy. WHOOPS. 

Here's just a couple of examples from a simple Google search:





__





Viewer numbers for the 3/1 WWE Smackdown on Syfy - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results


3/1/13 edition of WWE Smackdown does 2.82 million viewers, down from last week.




www.wrestleview.com









__





Final 12/16 Smackdown on Syfy rating Archives - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results







www.wrestleview.com





YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES.


----------



## DammitChrist

ThirdMan said:


> In all seriousness, though, I find the vast majority of stan culture to be utterly childish and embarrassing. In wrestling and in all other areas of pop culture. It's fine to enjoy the work of this wrestler or that pop artist or actor, but bragging (on their behalf?) about how much they supposedly draw is pathetic.


For the record, I do agree with you. It *is* pathetic. It'd be nice to actually have a mature discussion and reasonable analysis in these ratings threads without having someone gloat *every day/week *about his top favorite(s) being "major draws" at the expense of the other performers.

I personally don't think any of my favorites are big draws (which is why I don't brag about any of their drawing ability), and I still enjoy their work regardless. I do think what happened in the 3rd hour this week was an anomaly due to some major outside factor.

I admittedly do get carried away with my reactionary responses in these types of topics since I do not think these fan wars (about the ratings) nor do I think blaming ANY of the individual talents for the decline in viewership is productive AT ALL. The current numbers are obviously the results from several years of a company-related issue.


----------



## ThirdMan

@DammitChrist

I'm glad you recognize that you get carried away in these threads as well. I understand the impulse to bring up The Bunny every time to try to counteract the claims made by the other poster, but using an isolated incident like that (with a ton of asterisks next to it, given the channel SD was on that night and whatnot) isn't much more helpful than someone using an isolated big third-hour drop to suggest Rollins is a ratings killer. Now, if they continue to feature Rollins in the main event of RAW virtually every week (against a variety of different opponents), and the drops continue to be that steep, well, there's a pattern that someone may be able to draw more conclusive data from. But as you said, it may have just been a weird anomoly, and next week's third-hour drop (regardless of who's featured) may be in line with most other weeks. We shall see.

I really think a lot of this stan stuff belongs in the Rants section, or at least the separate fan forums, because stans will always try to manipulate the narrative to favour their chosen few, regardless of the hard data. And I say that as someone who generally _enjoys_ most of the featured performers on these shows, many of whom have big stan support.

And while the drops in wrestling ratings overall _are_ somewhat related to fan disenchantment with creative direction, much of it is still very much in line with how viewing patterns of live, fictional television have drastically changed in the overall television landscape the past few years. A better episode of a show doesn't always generate better ratings, and a worse episode of a show doesn't always generate bad ratings: it's much more nuanced than that.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> Completely agree. Imagine bragging about SD doing 2 million on FOX when that is less than what SD was doing on SyFy. WHOOPS.
> 
> Here's just a couple of examples from a simple Google search:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viewer numbers for the 3/1 WWE Smackdown on Syfy - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results
> 
> 
> 3/1/13 edition of WWE Smackdown does 2.82 million viewers, down from last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestleview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final 12/16 Smackdown on Syfy rating Archives - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestleview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES.


SD hasn't been on Syfy since 2015. A lot less people watch TV now then they did then. Are there any shows that are doing better ratings now then they did in 2015?

Also, WWE ratings have been consistently going down since 2000 when Raw moved to TNN so I don't think it's fair to blame any one person for the decline.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> SD hasn't been on Syfy since 2015. A lot less people watch TV now then they did then. Are there any shows that are doing better ratings now then they did in 2015?


I get it. But it's still comical when you compare FOX vs. SyFy.



> Also, WWE ratings have been consistently going down since 2000 when Raw moved to TNN so I don't think it's fair to blame any one person for the decline.


Read the last 3 pages of this thread. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Don't wake a sleeping giant. Because fact of the matter is, I have a ton of shit to say, but I keep it inside so as not to start anything. BUT when/if someone wants to say something, I'll be more than happy to spill some of my shit out for everyone to read if that's what they want.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Look at that. Dynamite, on the go-home show to a huge PPV this weekend, not only got beat by Raw in overall viewers, but even in the coveted 18-49 demo. Raw did .40, and Dynamite did a .34. That's with Raw going head to head with the Demo Monster that the NFL is. This is not a bash on AEW at all. Just pointing out that a random 3 hour Raw head to head with the NFL did better not only in overall viewers, but also the demo on a go-home Dynamite.

Certainly beats the hell out of getting beat by The Bunny.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> Look at that. Dynamite, on the go-home show to a huge PPV this weekend, not only got beat by Raw in overall viewers, but even in the coveted 18-49 demo. Raw did .40, and Dynamite did a .34. That's with Raw going head to head with the Demo Monster that the NFL is. This is not a bash on AEW at all. Just pointing out that a random 3 hour Raw head to head with the NFL did better not only in overall viewers, but also the demo on a go-home Dynamite.
> 
> Certainly beats the hell out of getting beat by The Bunny.


That SD tied AEW in the demo and got almost 300k more viewers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> That SD tied AEW in the demo and got almost 300k more viewers.


As they should. Still, The Bunny, though. Hahahahaha. Very interesting that you have nothing to say about the previous few pages in this thread and what got this all started.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> As they should. Still, The Bunny, though. Hahahahaha. Very interesting that you have nothing to say about the previous few pages in this thread and what got this all started.


What are you talking about? I'm just asking how you could consider that being beat.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> What are you talking about? I'm just asking how you could consider that being beat.


Read the thread. It's all right there for you from myself and others. It's been talked about in plenty of other threads, too.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Wrong thread lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Boy Wonder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458923019448037388
Why aren't there quarter hour breakdowns for WWE programming?


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Here are the quarter hour breakdowns for this past week's edition of Monday Night RAW:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458942077195145216


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> Here are the quarter hour breakdowns for this past week's edition of Monday Night RAW:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458942077195145216


Thanks for posting. Not a surprise the big loss wasn't the match so much as it was the entrances they did for Big E, KO, Seth, Austin Theory and the Theory promo. In between those 4 entrances and the promo, they went to commercial not once, but TWICE in between all of that, well before the match even started. It really felt like they were just trying to waste time with the commercial breaks and the Theory entrance/promo which wasn't necessary there even though I like him. I mean, he didn't even interfere in the match. He did that promo, tried to get Big E to take a selfie with him and disappeared for the rest of the night. I think they had more time than they thought they would have and were trying to kill time. Could've easily done another segment backstage or something with other talent before the match started.


----------



## Fergal

Seth has proven to be anti draw they deserve the low ratings hope they fall even lower even marks are running out of excuses Baron Corbin was the problem in 2019 Owens is the problem now but Seff Flopping is still a massive draw bigger than Austin


----------



## Kentucky34

Fergal said:


> Seth has proven to be anti draw they deserve the low ratings hope they fall even lower even marks are running out of excuses Baron Corbin was the problem in 2019 Owens is the problem now but Seff Flopping is still a massive draw bigger than Austin


Seth was in the highest rated segment this week. 

Nice try.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Seth being in the highest and lowest rated segments of the night just opens up the possibility for wonderful ratings discussions.

Off that subject though, I hate we only seem to get quarter breakdowns for certain weeks/shows for WWE. Thurston will post every breakdown for AEW (which I appreciate), but we never really get anything for Raw or Smackdown except in rare cases.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

WWE's official Youtube channel and all of the videos of that segment are described from Owens' POV. Those were Owens' segments more than anyone else's:


----------



## ThirdMan

Dude, I know you're upset that some people are making fun of Rollins because his main-event match experienced a big drop this week, but KO was in the main-event with Big E (non-title match with a somewhat screwy finish as well) the previous week, with much of the story focused on KO, and the third hour did 1.655 million. Just relax. The big drop was probably just an anomaly. Seth will be fine.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Dude, I know you're upset that some people are making fun of Rollins because his main-event match experienced a big drop this week, but KO was in the main-event with Big E (non-title match with a somewhat screwy finish as well) the previous week, with much of the story focused on KO, and the third hour did 1.655 million. Just relax. The big drop was probably just an anomaly. Seth will be fine.


Doesn't at all. Only someone with an agenda would blame it on him. I'd be pissed if my favorite main-evented more WM's than anyone else in this era and only can draw barely 2 million on national television, I'd be insecure and looking to dump heat on others, too.
Well, maybe KO shouldn't be main-eventing multiple weeks in a row. Anyone who watched this week's Raw knows that KO and his heel turn was the focus of the show and the main story throughout the show.


----------



## ThirdMan

Maybe you shouldn't take the fortunes of millionaire wrestlers so personally. You don't have to defend them. It's just a show. They will be fine regardless. The same goes for that other prominent poster, but they've decided that's their gimmick, and are best Ignored if they bother you that much.

And yeah, it's entirely possible that people will tune out for KO-related content, partly because they know he's got one foot out the door. We'll have to see different configurations of wrestlers in the third hour before drawing any more cogent conclusions. They booked a long non-title match with little in the way of meaningful stakes, where viewers could reasonably expect a non-finish. Apparently the NFL game also went down to the wire around the same time. Historically, Seth's presence neither hurts nor helps the ratings to any *major* degree, much like most of the full-time roster (probably even including Roman). Seth will be fine.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Maybe you shouldn't take the fortunes of millionaire wrestlers so personally. You don't have to defend them. It's just a show. They will be fine regardless. The same goes for that other prominent poster, but they've decided that's their gimmick, and are best Ignored if they bother you that much.
> 
> And yeah, it's entirely possible that people will tune out for KO-related content, partly because they know he's got one foot out the door. We'll have to see different configurations of wrestlers in the third hour before drawing any more cogent conclusions. They booked a long non-title match with little in the way of meaningful stakes, where viewers could reasonably expect a non-finish. Apparently the NFL game also went down to the wire around the same time. Historically, Seth's presence neither hurts nor helps the ratings to any *major* degree, much like most of the full-time roster (probably even including Roman). Seth will be fine.


Jesus, dude. This may shock you. But people are allowed to post and respond to others if they so choose. So, no offense, but if you don't want to read my posts (or anyone else's for that matter on particular topics) than either put me (and the others) on ignore, or simply don't respond to our posts on the topics you're not interested in.

And it's not about 'defending millionaires' or whatever. But its about responding to posts that are pure BS. It's funny how you respond to my posts responding to the moronic posts that started this. How about you respond to the shit-posts in this thread that started this childish nonsense in the first place?


----------



## ThirdMan

It's fine. I don't respond much to that other poster because their modus operandi is to antagonize people, and they're in no way worth the effort. The only reason I haven't set them to Ignore is because it would make the Sasha Banks fan thread invisible to me. But that thread might be worth the sacrifice going forward. 

But by all means, continue to argue with them if you think it will accomplish anything (hint: it won't). I've said all I'm gonna say on the matter, as I don't much care if Seth's, Roman's, or anyone else's matches/segments draw high or low ratings. The only thing of consequence is whether or not we, as individuals, actually enjoy the segments and matches.

Cheers.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Jesus, dude. This may shock you. But people are allowed to post and respond to others if they so choose. So, no offense, but if you don't want to read my posts (or anyone else's for that matter on particular topics) than either put me (and the others) on ignore, or simply don't respond to our posts on the topics you're not interested in.
> 
> And it's not about 'defending millionaires' or whatever. But its about responding to *posts that are pure BS*. It's funny how you respond to my posts responding to the moronic posts that started this. How about you *respond to the shit-posts in this thread that started this childish nonsense in the first place?*


Yea, this needs to be called out more because this happens EVERY week in the ratings threads.


----------



## ThirdMan

That poster craves interaction. If you block or simply ignore them, they lose any "power" they think they might have. They want to get you worked up, to antagonize you. None of that works if you don't respond to them at all.


----------



## DammitChrist

ThirdMan said:


> That poster craves interaction. If you block or simply ignore them, they lose any "power" they think they might have. They want to get you worked up, to antagonize you. None of that works if you don't respond to them at all.


If nobody speaks up against the nonsense, then more false information will continue to spread and it could potentially lead to long-term damage (of toxicity).


----------



## ThirdMan

You can speak to ratings trends and whatnot, if you so desire, without actually addressing said poster directly. Have conversations with other people with more reasonable, balanced perspectives. These threads are FAR more toxic when you actually get into pissing-contests with the antagonizer, because you often end up manipulating numbers, just as they do, in order to try to dunk on them. Nothing is accomplished, and you usually end up looking worse for it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Which wasn't his fault at all.


*Record Low Ratings Rollins strikes again! The Monday Night Messiah is back with his MEGASTAR wife to create new milestones of mediocrity. Gotta admire the consistency. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460974320495337475*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hey, that's not much lower than SD's ratings on FOX, and that's up against the NFL! What is SD's excuse?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I must've missed where Seth is Champion or even main-evented this week. Weak ass trolling. Meanwhile, SD gets it's ass beat every single week in it's timeslot. SD on Syfy beats Reigns' on FOX.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *Record Low Ratings Rollins strikes again! The Monday Night Messiah is back with his MEGASTAR wife to create new milestones of mediocrity. Gotta admire the consistency.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460974320495337475*


Lol, that is up on last week and before when Seth switched over. 

Lets see the hourly breakdowns.


----------



## Frost99




----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's one thing to be mediocre on cable against the NFL. Imagine being mediocre on network television, and a huge network like FOX.

But I’ll give Big E a break. He hasn’t received anywhere near the push that Reigns has gotten and for Raw to even be in SDs range at this point is hilarious enough on SDs part.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Record Low Ratings Rollins strikes again! The Monday Night Messiah is back with his MEGASTAR wife to create new milestones of mediocrity. Gotta admire the consistency.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460974320495337475*


1. Your mediocre favorite still took an embarrassing loss to the Bunny.

2. These rating threads would be so much better if you weren't around to continue this awful gimmick of yours where you blatantly try to start fan wars.


----------



## Mongstyle

Raw went too long without Seth Floppins and Becky Stench. Well they're back to finish what they began 3 years ago. Set all new record lows once again.

Big E being done dirty. Rushed to the top position without a proper build. Now having to carry the weight of these failures who can't even help anchor the show.

They need to send Brock over ASAP after Mania. Send Randall and Styles Smackdown in his place.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Raw went too long without Seth Floppins and Becky Stench.


Oh, grow up already. Neither of those names even *exist.*

You're probably older than me too.



> Well they're back to finish what they began 3 years ago. Set all new record lows once again.
> 
> Big E being done dirty. Rushed to the top position without a proper build. Now having to carry the weight of these failures who can't even help anchor the show.
> 
> They need to send Brock over ASAP after Mania. Send Randall and Styles Smackdown in his place.


Except for the fact that Raw's ratings were STILL declining LONG before Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch even made their first respective appearances in WWE ALONG with the fact that the numbers continued to gradually decline in late 2020 through mid 2021 while BOTH of them were away.

You don't know jack about how ratings even work. Quit pretending like you still 'do.' Get a clue.


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> 1. Your mediocre favorite still took an embarrassing loss to the Bunny.
> 
> 2. These rating threads would be so much better if you weren't around to continue this awful gimmick of yours where you blatantly try to start fan wars.


It's all quite sad. Obvious what is happening:

WWE is on a downwards trajectory due to a combination of: cord cutting, failure to make new household names, stale format, ageing roster, oversaturation, lack of enticing storylines. The main thing by far is TV being down - the other stuff just adds fuel to the flames. 

AEW is either holding steady or expected to be on a very small upwards trajectory as they: add new shows, increase their brand awareness, cement as cast of fresh faces, spend money on known names, pull the trigger on some memorable angles. 

A former world champion from the past, who makes his/her return after time away will boost the viewership of that promotion for an episode or two. The longer they have been gone the higher the jump. 

It's way beyond any individual talent. Everything else is just spin or trolling.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> I must've missed where Seth is Champion or even main-evented this week. Weak ass trolling. Meanwhile, SD gets it's ass beat every single week in it's timeslot. SD on Syfy beats Reigns' on FOX.


So is the 18-49 demo more important than total viewership or not? Because SD usually wins that.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Raw after WM33 - 3.76 million
> Raw after WM34 - 3.96 million
> Raw after WM35 (Seth and Becky's push) - 2.92 million
> 
> I get this is difficult for your midget brain but all decreases are not the same. Ratings decline between 2016-2018 were in line with historical performance. The average being something like 10-12%.
> 
> With Floppins and Stench, they doubled the decline to 25%.
> 
> There are 3 times the trend has been broken in the last decade. When Raw went 3 hours, when Seth Rollins was WWE champion in the Summer of 2015, and when Becky and Seth had Raw built around them in 2019.
> 
> And yeah, Raw did no better in 2020 and 2021. Becky was still there in 2020 when Raw was clearly about to go sub-2 million by April regardless of the pandemic. Just because she disappeared in April doesn't change that. As was Floppins. They did the damage. Drew's mediocre ass being unable to recover their disaster wasn't a surprise. And as viewership trends show, retention is always the most important. That's what they fucked up by driving ratings off a cliff in the span of a few months.
> 
> Raw used to be within 20% of Smackdown's numbers. Smackdown is now 40% higher instead. At the rate they're going, they may literally be competing with Dynamite in another 1-2 years.
> 
> *The only clueless person here is you.*


Says the individual who conveniently ignored ACTUAL valid reasons made by the previous poster of why ratings have decreased over the years, and says the individual who can't even do the simple task of calling wrestlers by their proper names.

You're pretty much twisting the numbers with your corrupted narrative just so you can blame this on the individual talents like the rest of those blind, helpless eggs in 2021 still. You don't get to insult someone's brain size at all,

Again, grow up and get a clue.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw being in the same range as SD is despite being on cable, an hour longer, and going head to head vs. the NFL will forever crack me up almost as much as SD on FOX getting beat by SD on SyFy.

They can have Reigns main-event WM until he's 90 and it won't make one iota of a difference. I mean, shit. SD is down year to year from just last year.


----------



## Zappers

Friday's is one of toughest nights of the week to get ratings. Especially the demo they are looking for. Not quite clear at all concern at SD, or rather mocking. They are doing pretty decent given the situation.

But this thread is about RAW and how they are doing or struggling or whatever. Trust me, it would worse if RAW moved to Fridays imo. Said it a thousand times, drop the dam 3rd hour. Tighten it up. Hell even move back to 9-11pm. Will actually help with the west coast audiences.


----------



## Mongstyle

DammitChrist said:


> Says the individual who conveniently ignored ACTUAL valid reasons made by the previous poster of why ratings have decreased over the years, and says the individual who can't even do the simple task of calling wrestlers by their proper names.
> 
> You're pretty much twisting the numbers with your corrupted narrative just so you can blame this on the individual talents like the rest of those blind, helpless eggs in 2021 still. You don't get to insult someone's brain size at all,
> 
> Again, grow up and get a clue.


Yes, yes. Go ahead and deflect. Reality is hard.

There's nothing to twist. They gave those 2 flops the focus and each time the drop off was significantly greater than the historical trend.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mongstyle said:


> Raw after WM33 - 3.76 million
> Raw after WM34 - 3.96 million
> Raw after WM35 (Seth and Becky's push) - 2.92 million
> 
> I get this is difficult for your midget brain but all decreases are not the same. Ratings decline between 2016-2018 were in line with historical performance. The average being something like 10-12%.


RAW's viewership has gone up overall since Seth and Becky moved across. Smackdown's viewership has gone down. I guess that doesn't fit your narrative though.


----------



## Mongstyle

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW's viewership has gone up overall since Seth and Becky moved across. Smackdown's viewership has gone down. I guess that doesn't fit your narrative though.


Yes, it's gone up to a record low just 2 weeks ago.

Bloody hell.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Yes, yes. Go ahead and deflect. Reality is hard.
> 
> There's nothing to twist. They gave those 2 flops the focus and each time the drop off was significantly greater than the historical trend.


Dude, your boy just flopped big time head-to-head against the Bunny recently despite receiving the biggest push out of ANY current male talent over the past several years (in the MIDDLE of his 1 year+ long world title reign too).

You don't get to call anyone else a "flop" going by your baffling logic.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SD is down from last year. They are on the biggest network that exists in Network Television. In the SD time-slot, they finish 2nd last every single week, beating only the CW Network every week.

All that for a billion dollars. They can push Reigns to the moon, and it won't matter one little bit. They've done so, SD has every advantage imaginable and they finish about 4-500K more than Raw, even when Raw goes up against the NFL.

Pathetic.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mongstyle said:


> Yes, it's gone up to a record low just 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Bloody hell.


Last week the third hour was very low because of a tight NFL game.

The previous 2 weeks showed an increase.

This week's number is up on last week's.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I bet if Raw was only 2 hours it'd be even closer to SD than it already is which is soooo pathetic.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> FS1 numbers are irrelevant. *You need to fix this small brain syndrome you got. You say some of the dumbest shit.*
> 
> 
> *Only a retard*looks at the number week to week as if it means something. You look at the overall trend. Raw is currently on the worst ratings run ever.


It's bad enough that you continuously make weak points while STILL being unable to call wrestlers by their proper names, but I see that you're resorting to flame now since you know how twisted your false narratives are.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> SD is down from last year. They are on the biggest network that exists in Network Television. In the SD time-slot, they finish 2nd last every single week, beating only the CW Network every week.
> 
> All that for a billion dollars. They can push Reigns to the moon, and it won't matter one little bit. They've done so, SD has every advantage imaginable and they finish about 4-500K more than Raw, even when Raw goes up against the NFL.
> 
> Pathetic.


ABC, NBC, and CBS are all bigger than Fox. Fox has always been considered the 4th network.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> ABC, NBC, and CBS are all bigger than Fox. Fox has always been considered the 4th network.


You might want to tell the NFL games that air on FOX that or anyother FOX show for that matter.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mongstyle said:


> FS1 numbers are irrelevant. You need to fix this small brain syndrome you got. You say some of the dumbest shit.
> 
> 
> Only a retard looks at the number week to week as if it means something. You look at the overall trend. Raw is currently on the worst ratings run ever. The numbers you're saying were up had nothing to do with them and were shit numbers anyway. Floppins and Stench are the ones who began this massive decline 3 years ago. Them being on the show once again is obviously doing nothing because they've always been flops.
> 
> They're highly likely to do a sub 1.5 million total number very soon and you're going on about 2 weeks. Put down the crack pipe.


Why did the viewership increase the two weeks after Seth and Becky switched?

Stop deflecting.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

1.585 million viewers up slightly from1.549 million viewers last week.

1st hour 1.668 million viewers (last week’s hour 1 – 1.654 million)
2nd hour 1.644 million viewers (last week’s hour 2 – 1.621 million)
3rd hour drew 1.442 million viewers (last week’s hour 3 – 1.373 million).

18-49 demo: 0.42 up from 0.40


----------



## CMPunkRock316




----------



## Zappers

😂

*Becky just said in an interview that RAW has suffered over the last few years in the ratings. Agrees that SD is the better show. Her reason? She said the 3hrs that's the problem.

Now, now Becky. Stop reading my posts.*


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth in the highest rated hour again.


----------



## The XL 2

I remember when WWF programming would do huge numbers vs both WCW and the NFL. They sure have fallen


----------



## Prosper

Zappers said:


> 😂
> 
> *Becky just said in an interview that RAW has suffered over the last few years in the ratings. Agrees that SD is the better show. Her reason? She said the 3hrs that's the problem.
> 
> Now, now Becky. Stop reading my posts.*


SD WAS the better show compared to RAW, now they've stripped the show of all its stars to the point where there is no one to feud with Roman except for New Day and McIntyre.


----------



## Seafort

The issue with Seth's run in 2014-2015 was not the wrestler, but the presentation. Here's how I felt in April 2014 shortly after he became champion:
_
2) Seth Rollins - I'm in the minority here, but the idea of a cowardly, Honkytonk Man-esque heel holding the belt for up to a year (or longer?) aided by Corporate Kane, The Big Show, and the rest of the bland Authority is not necessarily appealing. Why watch the next PPV, or any PPV for that matter over the next six months as we know that we will get a screwjob finish? The NWA was able to sustain it with Ric Flair for a while - how long will the WWE be able to do it? WWE had captured something with Lesnar as champion that they have not had in a LONG time....a captivating, must see attraction. They should have left the belt on Lesnar and made the chase for the title the focus of 2015-16. In the limited opportunities who will get it - Reigns, Orton, Ryback, Rusev, Bryan, Ambrose? Instead the only suspense will be which member of the Authority ruins a great match. The NWA got to the point where the fans would look to the dressing room waiting for the Horsemen to interfere in a Ric Flair match, and WCW fans would be waiting for the rest of the nWo to save Hogan. That's what may happen here._









The Downturn Starts Now - 1 Year Later


Interesting to revisit this post now just over a year later. The original was written after the first two RAWs after WrestleMania 31, a period that seemed to crystalize something about the direction of the company. I felt then that a serious downturn was about to begin. The ratings did trend...




www.wrestlingforum.com





That's largely what happened.


----------



## Fergal

The Messiah of Ratings Slayer continue to be disaster for RAW pray that he stays for next year so I can see RAW go below 1 million


----------



## DammitChrist

Fergal said:


> The Messiah of Ratings Slayer continue to be disaster for RAW pray that he stays for next year so I can see RAW go below 1 million


If you bothered reading through the last couple of pages with posts made by folks who ACTUALLY know what they're talking about, then you'd realize how absurd that your awful take really is here.

Nobody is "tanking" the ratings. Get that through your thick head.


----------



## justin waynes

Zappers said:


> Friday's is one of toughest nights of the week to get ratings. Especially the demo they are looking for. Not quite clear at all concern at SD, or rather mocking. They are doing pretty decent given the situation.
> 
> But this thread is about RAW and how they are doing or struggling or whatever. Trust me, it would worse if RAW moved to Fridays imo. Said it a thousand times, drop the dam 3rd hour. Tighten it up. Hell even move back to 9-11pm. Will actually help with the west coast audiences.


Smackdown is on fox they are both the same raw or smack down


----------



## Kentucky34

Fergal said:


> The Messiah of Ratings Slayer continue to be disaster for RAW pray that he stays for next year so I can see RAW go below 1 million


Last time he was champion the show drew 2.7 million.

The problem is not Seth.


----------



## Zappers

justin waynes said:


> Smackdown is on fox *they are both the same raw or smack down*


Correct, Smackdown is on FOX. RAW is on USA. Both owned by one company. RAW is 3hours long and has one roster and is on cable, on a different night against different competition. SD is on regular TV, different roster, on another night, toughest ratings night of the week, and only 2 hrs long.

Now how are they both the same? Maybe I'm not understanding. Please elaborate.


----------



## Zappers

Prosper said:


> SD WAS the better show compared to RAW, now they've stripped the show of all its stars to the point where there is no one to feud with Roman except for New Day and McIntyre.


I was agreeing with her, not disagreeing with her. SHE is agreeing with me about SD being the better show, and RAW should go to 2 hrs long. Something I've been saying for YEARS.

Now, all we have to do is get Becky to agree with me that WWE has to STOP with the BOUNCING cameras, and STOP the quick cuts. The ratings will go up for both shows. Guaranteed.


----------



## justin waynes

Zappers said:


> Correct, Smackdown is on FOX. RAW is on USA. Both owned by one company. RAW is 3hours long and has one roster and is on cable, on a different night against different competition. SD is on regular TV, different roster, on another night, toughest ratings smack of the week, and only 2 hrs long.
> 
> Now how are they both the same? Maybe I'm not understanding. Please elaborate.


They are currently boring and draws the same ratings. Fox is just saving smack down with some few ratings but both shows sucks


----------



## Zappers

justin waynes said:


> They are currently boring and draws the same ratings. Fox is just saving smack down with some few ratings but both shows sucks


They don't draw the same ratings. Different nights. You can't compare equally. Smackdown gets higher ratings (currently) than RAW and they are on a tougher night. Makes it even more impressive.

And if you don't like either show.(you state they are boring and suck) Don't watch, nobody is forcing you to. In fact, imo, I wouldn't even post about either show ever again. Nor any of the wrestler on said shows. If your aren't watching then you wouldn't have any basis as to what to form an opinion anyway. Will save you a lot of time too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Being on the tougher night is way more than balanced out with Raw having a third hour and going head to head with the NFL every Fall. That doesn't even take into consideration SD being on national television and Raw being on cable.

The fact that the two shows are only separated by about 400-500K is astounding, really. SD should be beating RAW by way more than that considering the circumstances mentioned above. (I don't know why I'm defending Big E, but yeah.)


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Being on the tougher night is way more than balanced out with Raw having a third hour and going head to head with the NFL every Fall. That doesn't even take into consideration SD being on national television and Raw being on cable.
> 
> The fact that the two shows are only separated by about 400-500K is astounding, really. SD should be beating RAW by way more than that considering the circumstances mentioned above. (I don't know why I'm defending Big E, but yeah.)


In all fairness, I do believe that any world champion *SHOULD *be defended here since these numbers will still be low no matter who's being pushed. 

Hell, the WWE Champion (Big E) and the #1 Contender (Seth Rollins) weren't even in that low 3rd hour at all.

The same goes with the Raw Women's Champion too. Becky Lynch only appeared in the 1st hour.

It doesn't matter who they push as world champions, or where they end up on the card because they'd STILL be getting these low numbers because nobody in the current roster is a big TV draw.

If Raw continues being a decent/solid show over the next few months (instead of just worrying too much about these unusually low numbers), then MAYBE they'll grow some of their TV audience back by March 2022.

They DO need to quit doing the lame DQ finishes in short matches, and they need to stop making random announcements on Twitter where they have little plans to follow through (like with the 5v5 matches for Survivor Series).


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Did I accidentally walk into the SmackDown ratings thread? Seems to be a lot of SD talk in a thread about the RAW ratings. Deflection and being in denial about RAW's terrible ratings perhaps? Don't get me wrong, SmackDown is fucking garbage right now, but it seems RAW has gained itself a few stans in this section who dare to defend the honour of RAW against anyone who critiques it.

How about we accept that RAW and SmackDown are both objectively trash right now? Equally trash too, SD at least has Reigns, but they've stuck him in a feud with that joke of a wrestler Xavier Woods so they've managed to go and ruin his appeal now.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Did I accidentally walk into the SmackDown ratings thread? Seems to be a lot of SD talk in a thread about the RAW ratings. Deflection and being in denial about RAW's terrible ratings perhaps? Don't get me wrong, SmackDown is fucking garbage right now, but it seems RAW has gained itself a few stans in this section who dare to defend the honour of RAW against anyone who critiques it.
> 
> How about we accept that RAW and SmackDown are both objectively trash right now? Equally trash too, SD at least has Reigns, but they've stuck him in a feud with that joke of a wrestler Xavier Woods so they've managed to go and ruin his appeal now.


Nah, the fact that Raw doesn't have that overrated current Universal Champion automatically makes this a better show.

Poor Xavier Woods though for being stuck feuding with someone who's not nearly half as talented as him.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the fact that Raw doesn't have that overrated current Universal Champion automatically makes this a better show.
> 
> Poor Xavier Woods though for being stuck feuding with someone who's not nearly half as talented as him.


The fact that Xavier Woods is even in a main event scene is a travesty, you know things are bad when you have to resort to a talentless piece of shit like him. Dude should be on Main Event jobbing to Mustafa Ali every week, or just have him and Kofi get squashed by Los Lotharios every week.

That's how fucking bad WWE has gotten, where you're relying on the New Day of all people, to be in the main event scene. Reigns deserves so much more than that shit.


----------



## postmoderno

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Did I accidentally walk into the SmackDown ratings thread? Seems to be a lot of SD talk in a thread about the RAW ratings. Deflection and being in denial about RAW's terrible ratings perhaps? Don't get me wrong, SmackDown is fucking garbage right now, but it seems RAW has gained itself a few stans in this section who dare to defend the honour of RAW against anyone who critiques it.
> 
> How about we accept that RAW and SmackDown are both objectively trash right now? Equally trash too, SD at least has Reigns, but they've stuck him in a feud with that joke of a wrestler Xavier Woods so they've managed to go and ruin his appeal now.


Reasonable people already realize this, and there's nothing more that needs to be said on the matter. But there are a handful of weirdos who are so obsessed with their favorite wrestler--or in some cases, the one they dislike the most--that they see everything as a function of that wrestler, including the show's quality and resultant ratings. They all seem to tie their self identity and self worth into their opinions about this particular wrestler, and so they treat their opinion about it like objective truth and cannot cope with any stance that conflicts with their own. It's a bizarre phenomenon and quite sad.

The result is the same 4 or 5 nutjobs who have been yelling at each other for pages and pages now and making this thread as unreadable as WWE is unwatchable.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The fact that Xavier Woods is even in a main event scene is a travesty, you know things are bad when you have to resort to a talentless piece of shit like him. Dude should be on Main Event jobbing to Mustafa Ali every week, or just have him and Kofi get squashed by Los Lotharios every week.
> 
> That's how fucking bad WWE has gotten, where you're relying on the New Day of all people, to be in the main event scene. Reigns deserves so much more than that shit.


You're talking about the wrong guy lacking talent in this feud on Smackdown then because it sure as heck isn't the really TALENTED Xavier Woods 😂


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> You're talking about the wrong guy lacking talent in this feud on Smackdown then because it sure as heck isn't the really TALENTED Xavier Woods 😂


Reigns is on another level to Woods, dude is lucky to be on TV let alone in a main event feud of all things.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

postmoderno said:


> Reasonable people already realize this, and there's nothing more that needs to be said on the matter. But there are a handful of weirdos who are so obsessed with their favorite wrestler--or in some cases, the one they dislike the most--that they see everything as a function of that wrestler, including the show's quality and resultant ratings. They all seem to tie their self identity and self worth into their opinions about this particular wrestler, and so they treat their opinion about it like objective truth and cannot cope with any stance that conflicts with their own. It's a bizarre phenomenon and quite sad.
> 
> The result is the same 4 or 5 nutjobs who have been yelling at each other for pages and pages now and making this thread as unreadable as WWE is unwatchable.


Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. Also don't get the brand loyalty towards RAW and SmackDown, they're both run by the same company at the end of the day, and as of right now, both are pretty bad. You can prefer one show over the other which is completely normal, but to go to the lengths of defending one show over the other with al your will is just weird and obsessive as hell.


----------



## DammitChrist

Zappers said:


> They don't draw the same ratings. Different nights. You can't compare equally. Smackdown gets higher ratings (currently) than RAW and they are on a tougher night. Makes it even more impressive.
> 
> And if you don't like either show.(you state they are boring and suck) Don't watch, nobody is forcing you to. In fact, imo, I wouldn't even post about either show ever again. Nor any of the wrestler on said shows. If your aren't watching then you wouldn't have any basis as to what to form an opinion anyway. Will save you a lot of time too.


Dude, do you need to be reminded (yet again) that no individual talent (such as Becky Lynch) is “poisoning” the ratings?

It’s absolutely baffling that helpless folks still think this nonsense in 2021.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, do you need to be reminded (yet again) that no individual talent (such as Becky Lynch) is “poisoning” the ratings?
> 
> It’s absolutely baffling that helpless folks still think this nonsense in 2021.


Huh? I'm talking about the shows(RAW/SD) in general, about the nights they are on, and the competition with this person. And how he/she hates WWE, so I'm discussing why he/she is worrying about it or the ratings, etc...


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Zappers said:


> Huh? I'm talking about the shows(RAW/SD) in general, about the nights they are on, and the competition with this person. And how he/she hates WWE, so I'm discussing why he/she is worrying about it or the ratings, etc...


Ignore him, he instantly jumps to defend RAW at any sight of criticism.


----------



## Mongstyle

Entire WWE roster showing up on Raw tonight, and more importantly Vince is highly likely to be there, and it seems people may buy into the rumours of Rock too.

Seems like Raw may avert another disastrous rating this week. Vince trying to do everything he can to slow the march to sub-1.5 million.

Becky Stench, Seth Floppins, Big E etc. doing so bad it brought Vince back to TV. We can at least praise them for doing one good thing since Vince is a rare sight now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Entire WWE roster showing up on Raw tonight, and more importantly Vince is highly likely to be there, and it seems people may buy into the rumours of Rock too.
> 
> Seems like Raw may avert another disastrous rating this week. Vince trying to do everything he can to slow the march to sub-1.5 million.
> 
> Becky Stench, Seth Floppins, Big E etc. doing so bad it brought Vince back to TV. We can at least praise them for doing one good thing since Vince is a rare sight now.


You're corny as hell. Enjoy SD's second hour doing 1.8 million this past week...on FOX. Fucking losers on that show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Entire WWE roster showing up on Raw tonight, and more importantly Vince is highly likely to be there, and it seems people may buy into the rumours of Rock too.
> 
> Seems like Raw may avert another disastrous rating this week. Vince trying to do everything he can to slow the march to sub-1.5 million.
> 
> *Becky Stench, Seth Floppins, Big E* etc. doing so bad it brought Vince back to TV. We can at least praise them for doing one good thing since Vince is a rare sight now.


Yea, I'm not going to correct you on your inability to understand how ratings work once again.

Grow up, and get a clue, dude.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I'm not going to correct you on your inability to understand how ratings work once again.
> 
> Grow up, and get a clue, dude.


He's a virgin for sure.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> You're corny as hell. Enjoy SD's second hour doing 1.8 million this past week...on FOX. Fucking losers on that show.


Smackdown did a final number of 2.064 million. Basically in line with how it's been doing for over a year. It's fine. It should be at 1.9-2 million right now if anything so it's setting up well for January and a bounce back.

Don't be so hurt Raw is collapsing again under Floppins and Stench. It's not like it's the first time. Maybe only a second time for Stench but Floppins is completing the trilogy.

We going to 1.4 million in December. AEW is waiting to compete with the B show.



Showstopper said:


> He's a virgin for sure.


Seems like I'm fucking you two pretty good with how pressed you feel. 🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Smackdown did a final number of 2.064 million. Basically in line with how it's been doing for over a year. It's fine. It should be at 1.9-2 million right now if anything so it's setting up well for January and a bounce back.
> 
> Don't be so hurt Raw is collapsing again under Floppins and Stench. It's not like it's the first time. Maybe only a second time for Stench but Floppins is completing the trilogy.
> 
> We going to 1.4 million in December. AEW is waiting to compete with the B show.


1.8 second hour with Reigns in it...on FOX. OUCH. Don't worry, little buddy. I understand your anger. SEETHE some more, please. It makes me hard.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> 1.8 second hour with Reigns in it...on FOX. OUCH. Don't worry, little buddy. I understand your anger. SEETHE some more, please. It makes me hard.


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> 🤣🤣🤣


SEETHE.


----------



## Mongstyle

Damn. All capitals. This is serious. I will get you the helpline number buddeh. Don't give up.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Damn. All capitals. This is serious. I will get you the helpline number buddeh. Don't give up.


SEETHE.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> SEETHE.


There there, The Showflopper Seth Floppins will be alright. I'm sure Vince makes use of him under the table like he did with HBK back in the day. 🤣🤣🤣

Vince would be like "BREATHE". 🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> There there, The Showflopper Seth Floppins will be alright. I'm sure Vince makes use of him under the table like he did with HBK back in the day. 🤣🤣🤣


SEETHE.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I'll be surprised if RAW gets above 1.5 this week, absolute garbage show.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll be surprised if RAW gets above 1.5 this week, absolute garbage show.


You must be confusing Raw for Smackdown then.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> You must be confusing Raw for Smackdown then.


Why are you bringing up SmackDown? This is the RAW thread, we're talking about RAW here. RAW was garbage this week.

I know you can't handle the fact that RAW is terrible but bringing up a show that's slightly less terrible isn't a glowing endorsement for RAW.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Why are you bringing up SmackDown? This is the RAW thread, we're talking about RAW here. RAW was garbage this week.
> 
> I know you can't handle the fact that RAW is terrible but bringing up a show that's slightly less terrible isn't a glowing endorsement for RAW.


Except for the fact that Raw is mostly a decent show nowadays, and Smackdown is way worse.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Raw is mostly a decent show nowadays, and Smackdown is way worse.


RAW has nothing to keep fans invested, what do they do to make people watch each week? They wouldn't be having record low ratings if it was good TV. SD at least has Reigns to keep people entertained.


----------



## DaSlacker

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll be surprised if RAW gets above 1.5 this week, absolute garbage show.


The big competition was:

Buccaneers vs Giants (popped a big number last time and MNF is up 17% this season) 
The Voice
Dancing with Stars final
Good Doctor

The Wisconsin attack will have boosted the news ratings, sadly. 

My guess is it started higher than usual, due to the old whodunnit and Vince and the whole roster. Then the casual audience saw it was one big comedy segment and left. 3 title matches on one show might have helped.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> RAW has nothing to keep fans invested, what do they do to make people watch each week? They wouldn't be having record low ratings if it was good TV. SD at least has Reigns to keep people entertained.


The current Universal Champion isn't keeping them 'entertained' though, dude.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

F


DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that Raw is mostly a decent show nowadays, and Smackdown is way worse.


Facts. SD is down big year on year.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> The current Universal Champion isn't keeping them 'entertained' though, dude.


Clearly more entertained than RAW though, which is the point of this debate.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Clearly more entertained than RAW though, which is the point of this debate.


Yes, NXT UK is the only other WWE show that's more entertaining than Raw


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, NXT UK is the only other WWE show that's more entertaining than Raw


I'm sure the 5 people that watch it are entertained


----------



## Shaun_27

Honestly as goofy as Vince and the egg was, it got me to watch RAW for the first time in a while. Think the number will be better than expected.


----------



## Mongstyle

DammitChrist said:


> The current Universal Champion isn't keeping them 'entertained' though, dude.


The cope. 

Smackdown has seen essentially no decrease since the pandemic beat its ass. They've even recovered slightly and are averaging over 2 million for the last year, up from the pandemic lows. They'll probably do better this coming Mania season than they did in 2021.

Meanwhile Raw just goes lower and lower. Currently set to beat even pandemic lows on a regular basis, and there's little to no chance they're even matching their 2021 Mania season. Amazing how people come out with this bogus cos their darlings fail again and again when given the ball.

Just be happy that Vince coming may have averted another disaster for last night's ratings and stopped the further embarrassment of Seth Floppins and Becky Stench. Acknowledge the Kennedian McMahon.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> The cope.
> 
> Smackdown has seen essentially no decrease since the pandemic beat its ass. They've even recovered slightly and are averaging over 2 million for the last year, up from the pandemic lows. They'll probably do better this coming Mania season than they did in 2021.
> 
> Meanwhile Raw just goes lower and lower. Currently set to beat even pandemic lows on a regular basis, and there's little to no chance they're even matching their 2021 Mania season. Amazing how people come out with this bogus cos their darlings fail again and again when given the ball.
> 
> Just be happy that Vince coming may have averted another disaster for last night's ratings and stopped the further embarrassment of Seth Floppins and Becky Stench.


Sure, keep over-compensating with poor reasoning over the fact that your dude ain't much of a TV draw like everyone else in the current roster aren't


----------



## Mongstyle

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, keep over-compensating with poor reasoning over the fact that your dude ain't much of a TV draw like everyone else in the current roster aren't


Smackdown? Steady.

Raw? Flopping like Seth Floppins when Fatzilla mounted his ass and almost took his anal virginity from him. Becky Stench on the ramp watching like, "Is that how you please my man?" 😂😂😂


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Smackdown? Steady.
> 
> Raw? Flopping like *Seth Floppins* when Fatzilla mounted his ass and almost took his anal virginity from him. *Becky Stench* on the ramp watching like, "Is that how you please my man?" 😂😂😂


Was that supposed to be a childish roast on homosexuality/bisexuality? How old are you? 😂 😂

1. None of those bolded names even exist.

2. The live crowds since mid July are what helped Smackdown keep their steady 2 million viewers (barely),

3. The guy you whine about weekly immobilized that fool in a Guillotine hold until a referee had to break it up.

4. You still don't have a *clue* how ratings work


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

1.8 million on *FOX. DOWN YEAR OVER YEAR, HAHAHAHAHA!!!*


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> 1.8 million on *FOX. DOWN YEAR OVER YEAR, HAHAHAHAHA!!!*


So is Raw:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> So is Raw:
> 
> View attachment 112176


Raw isn't the A-Show with the face of the company on it, genius. Nor is it on national television. Keep quoting me, keep getting smacked back down.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showflopper's just upset his racist hero almost got raped by some fat guy.

Smackdown is down from an average of 2.1 million to 2.06 million YOY (2020 compared to 2021), but excluding pre-pandemic shows in 2020, it's actually up.

Meanwhile Raw is hitting record lows right after Seth the racist Floppins shows up. I'm sure Neo Nazi Showflopper is finding it tough. 🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Yawn.


----------



## Kentucky34

RAW's viewership has actually increased a bit since Seth moved over.

He isn't even the champion or main character on the show.

Dunno why some are claiming he has tanked the ratings. 

Stop the hate.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The egg is a confirmed draw:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463252869059158027*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SETH ROLLINS THE DRAW!!!! SETH ALL OVER THE SHOW LAST NIGHT AND THE BIGGEST TOPIC COMING OUT OF THE SHOW!!! WOOHOOO!!!! DRAW CITY!!!!

(I think that's how it works, right?)


----------



## postmoderno

PUSH THE EGG


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

1.699M viewers and a .49 demo

Only thing that finished above them was NFL related stuff (of course) and Tucker Carlson finished ahead of Hour 3:


----------



## DaSlacker

Had a feeling they'd add a minimum of 100,000 viewers from last week. Big 4 PPV fallout + both rosters + Vince + old whodunnit. Drop off wasn't as big as I thought it might be. Booking several title matches likely helped. 

Gonna be a rough December for Raw. Not much on the horizon apart from the Damian Priest heel turn and further build to (guessing) Big E vs Seth Rollins vs Kevin Owens at Day 1.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Wow they got a post PPV bump, that's cool. Won't last unfortunately, back down to 1.5 million and below next week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Wow they got a post PPV bump, that's cool. Won't last unfortunately, back down to 1.5 million and below next week.


*It's a shame that the egg is only a part timer.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463254539310534662*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's a shame that the egg is only a part timer.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463254539310534662*


It's a shame when an egg storyline is a bigger draw than your entire roster. The state of RAW.


----------



## InexorableJourney

We want EGG!

Coo coo ca choo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's a shame when an egg storyline is a bigger draw than your entire roster. The state of RAW.


*The only way I'd it through this trash is if they put the WWE Championship on Rhea Ripley. *


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> *The only way I'd it through this trash is if they put the WWE Championship on Rhea Ripley. *


I have a feeling she's getting cut honestly, they've had her lose a lot.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth helped draw that number. 

Let's give him credit for once.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I have a feeling she's getting cut honestly, they've had her lose a lot.


*Nah, she's a golden girl. The 4HW, Bianca, Rhea, and Alexa are untouchable. *


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, she's a golden girl. The 4HW, Bianca, Rhea, and Alexa are untouchable. *


You say that but I have heard about her potentially not being vaccinated.


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> You say that but I have heard about her potentially not being vaccinated.


* No one can tour internationally without being vaccinated and they ran Sasha, Charlotte, Rhea, and Bianca a few times in England.*


----------



## TheGunnShow

The Legit DMD said:


> *The only way I'd it through this trash is if they put the WWE Championship on Rhea Ripley. *


Her Raw women's title reign sucked so no thanks.


----------



## the_hound

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's a shame that the egg is only a part timer.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463254539310534662*


yet chicago phil can't break an egg let alone break a million on rampage.


----------



## Rankles75

Showstopper said:


> 1.699M viewers and a .49 demo
> 
> Only thing that finished above them was NFL related stuff (of course) and Tucker Carlson finished ahead of Hour 3:


Who the fuck watches Tucker Carlson? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Her Raw women's title reign sucked so no thanks.


Nah, they should give Rhea Ripley the Raw Women's title.

By the way, you're a hypocrite since Asuka's previous title reign over the past year wasn't anything special either.

Edit:

For the record, I ENJOY both those women; but you're an annoying gimmick poster, so no, you shouldn't get what you want regarding Rhea.


----------



## DaSlacker

Rankles75 said:


> Who the fuck watches Tucker Carlson? 🤷‍♂️


At least 4 million easily led boomers by the looks of it.

If you touch the correct emotions and preconceptions you can sell any old shit to a sizeable customer base. Hence why the guy is pocketing 6 million per year.


----------



## TheGunnShow

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should give Rhea Ripley the Raw Women's title.
> 
> By the way, you're a hypocrite since Asuka's previous title reign over the past year wasn't anything special either.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, I ENJOY both those women; but you're an annoying gimmick poster, so no, you shouldn't get what you want regarding Rhea.


Asuka's title reign may have sucked, but at least she's a better talent. Rhea peaked in 2019.


----------



## chronoxiong

Egg storyline = ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Asuka's title reign may have sucked, but at least she's a better talent. Rhea peaked in 2019.


Nah, Rhea is a pretty damn good talent. You're not reliable.


----------



## Accipiter

I'll admit it, it was the first RAW I'd seen this year, and the first WWE show since Royal Rumble. Call me a sucker for the randomness of anything can happen. And Austin Theory challenging for the WWE championship fits.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Edge is back on RAW this week, they might actually do a somewhat decent rating for the first time in forever. Will be nice for them to actually have a decent wrestler on the show, lord knows they sorely need it.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Edge is back on RAW this week, they might actually do a somewhat decent rating for the first time in forever. Will be nice for them to actually have a decent wrestler on the show, lord knows they sorely need it.


The likes of Edge, AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Dolph Ziggler, Finn Balor, Randy Orton, Riddle, Big E, Robert Roode, Chad Gable, Damian Priest, Becky Lynch, Rhea Ripley, etc. are ALL decent wrestlers


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> The likes of Edge, AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Dolph Ziggler, Finn Balor, Randy Orton, Riddle, Big E, Robert Roode, Chad Gable, Damian Priest, Becky Lynch, Rhea Ripley, etc. are ALL decent wrestlers


Shame that Edge is the only one who knows how to draw a decent rating though.

The others wouldn't know the definition of a good rating if it slapped them in the face.


----------



## DaSlacker

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Shame that Edge is the only one who knows how to draw a decent rating though.
> 
> The others wouldn't know the definition of a good rating if it slapped them in the face.


Edge had the luxury of coming up through the TV-14 years, when TV companies weren't throwing crazy money at them to churn out content and they had to put in some effort to sell the PPVs. 

Edge was allowed to cut promos that sounded like they came from a human being. The others, barring Orton, have had the worst of all worlds. Sanitized to hell, 50/50 booking and promos that sound they come from a 75 year old man. Plus no real incentive for management to work hard for the money.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ratings still off cause of Thanksgiving?


----------



## Mongstyle

Raw did 1.678 million viewers. 18-49 was 0.45.

This is decent considering Raw's trajectory at the moment. Vince and his egg saving this shitshow 2 weeks in a row. Even if he doesn't want to be on TV these days, no denying Vince in a meatier on-screen role would help them.

Also lol at people thinking Edge does anything for ratings. He literally hasn't popped the number once in his return.


----------



## postmoderno

Egg did a slightly better number than Edge. 

Put the egg back on tv, dammit


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Rollins with a second consecutive week of great drawing. Seth was all over this show! It cracks me up how they are right on SD's ass, even with RAW going head to head with the NFL! Absolutely hilarious! You won't see Raw finishing second to last place every week like certain other weekly WWE television Shows! Once again, only the NFL beat Raw as you can see on the chart below! Yeeeeeehawwww!!!!

LONG LIVE ROLLINS THE DRAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!


----------



## Kentucky34

Another increase.


----------



## Kentucky34

Those low 1.5s have become high 1.6s the past month.



http://imgur.com/dsIPO3X


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Edge’s hour doing better than same hour last week. Nice.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

God damn, yeah it held over.......but we've gotten to the point where we're celebrating 1.6 million viewers for RAW........Jesus Christ. Is it the worst? No, is it still a terrible number? Yes.


----------



## Seafort

A new Golden Era.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It should come of no surprise that Raw's ratings have been up since the draft, and that's with going head to head with the NFL.

Meanwhile, SD continues to finish in second to last place every week among the Networks.


----------



## Kentucky34

RAW is the only show where the viewership is trending upwards.

This has happened since Rollins was drafted over.


----------



## chronoxiong

Are ratings delayed again? Jesus christ.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Edit.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Only finished behind the NFL...again:

1.6 Million average.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Becky had a title match advertised for 2 weeks and they hit a new record low demo. This should be the nail in the coffin to the "biggest women's star in wrestling" argument. Pack that shit up and throw it in the trash.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468623439212777475
They also did 79,000 less viewers than the show with the Roman Reigns on it last week:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466092981346263047
So to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention, Seth and Becky fans have no leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing Smackdown ratings.*


----------



## SPCDRI

It opened super soft with a Big E cage match and had bottom 10 viewership for the third hour and lowest 18-49 third hour ever. Time to talk about NFL and other companies doing worse, lmfao.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth in the highest rated hour again.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Becky had a title match advertised for 2 weeks and they hit a new record low demo. This should be the nail in the coffin to the "biggest women's star in wrestling" argument. Pack that shit up and throw it in the trash.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468623439212777475
> They also did 79,000 less viewers than the show with the Roman Reigns on it last week:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466092981346263047
> So to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention, Seth and Becky fans have no leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing Smackdown ratings.*


Your guy LOST to the Bunny in October. You have NO leg to stand on regarding the ratings topic, dude.


----------



## Kentucky34

Lol Becky isn't even pushed as the star of the show.


----------



## SPCDRI

context time, cuz context matters...

RAW December 9, 2019
Hour One- 2.255m
Hour Two-2.201m
Hour Three-1.995m
Overall-2.104m (18-49-0.68)

RAW December 7th, 2020;
Hour One - 1.852m
Hour Two - 1.775m
Hour Three - 1.583m
Overall - 1.737m (18-49 - 0.51)

RAW December 6th ,2021;
Hour One - 1.669m
Hour Two - 1.636m
Hour Three - 1.494m
Overall - 1.600m (18-49 - 0.35)


----------



## Kentucky34

So RAW isn't really leaking viewers year on year?

Sweet.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

SPCDRI said:


> context time, cuz context matters...
> 
> RAW December 9, 2019
> Hour One- 2.255m
> Hour Two-2.201m
> Hour Three-1.995m
> Overall-2.104m (18-49-0.68)
> 
> RAW December 7th, 2020;
> Hour One - 1.852m
> Hour Two - 1.775m
> Hour Three - 1.583m
> Overall - 1.737m (18-49 - 0.51)
> 
> RAW December 6th ,2021;
> Hour One - 1.669m
> Hour Two - 1.636m
> Hour Three - 1.494m
> Overall - 1.600m (18-49 - 0.35)


*This didn't do what you think it did. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Your guy LOST to the Bunny in October. You have NO leg to stand on regarding the ratings topic, dude.


It's funny how for certain posters the demo matters and then it doesn't matter. Literally picking and choosing when it matters. Weak ass bullshit trolling.


----------



## SPCDRI

The Legit DMD said:


> *This didn't do what you think it did. *


Here's what I think it shows. It shows RAW is swirling the drain and there's arguably never been a point in time in more than 20 years where fewer people cared less about RAW. People get off light with WWE because they don't zoom out 4 or 5 years and start comparing it to other wrestling companies. This company's TV shows are going down the tubes.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> It's funny how for certain posters the demo matters and then it doesn't matter. Literally picking and choosing when it matters. Weak ass bullshit trolling.


* Sounds like you're mad that your record low ratings duo hit a new record low 3 times within a month. Maybe if you didn't spend the last 3 months lying about them being massive draws then it wouldn't hurt so much.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468623439212777475
> They also did 79,000 less viewers than the show with the Roman Reigns on it last week:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466092981346263047*


Roman was on the show last week? Did he pull a Cena? Because I didn’t see him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * Sounds like you're mad that your record low ratings duo hit a new record low 3 times within a month.*


Sounds like I have a point that you can't argue. Go back to the AEW ratings thread and tell everyone how the demo doesn't matter, but it does with other shows.

Not my fault you embarrass yourself every week on the AEW thread.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Sounds like I have a point that you can't argue. Go back to the AEW ratings thread and tell everyone how the demo doesn't matter, but it does with other shows.
> 
> Not my fault you embarrass yourself every week on the AEW thread.


* Sounds like angry deflection to me. Would you like to address how you spent the last 3 months telling everyone that Seth was a bigger draw than Roman and Becky was a bigger draw than Sasha, but it blew up in your face in record time with record low ratings? It's also kind of weird to stalk my posts in a section for a show you don't even watch just because the truth triggers you so much.*



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman was on the show last week? Did he pull a Cena? Because I didn’t see him.


*Advertised for a dark segment, disregard. They just tanked massively.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * Sounds like angry deflection to me. Would you like to address how you spent the last 3 months telling everyone that Seth was a bigger draw than Roman and Becky was a bigger draw than Sasha, but it blew up in your face in record time with record low ratings? It's also kind of weird to stalk my posts in a section for a show you don't even watch just because the truth triggers you so much.
> 
> 
> Advertised for a dark segment, disregard. They just tanked massively.*


Please, show me these posts where I said Seth is a bigger draw than Roman. As far as Sasha, as others embarrassed you in the SD thread this past week, drawing an extra 10 viewers to her particular segment while the number for the entire show is good enough to finish second to last place every week doesn't make one a draw.

But, please, show me where I said Seth is a bigger draw than Roman. You said I made these posts recently, so they shouldn't be hard or time-consuming to find.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

And Roman damn well better be a bigger draw than Seth and everyone else in the entire company. No one has had 1/4 the push Reigns has had.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Please, show me these posts where I said Seth is a bigger draw than Roman.


* Cut the crap. You desperately reach to 2015 Seth anytime Roman is brought up as the biggest male draw in the company. No one's buying your bullshit.*




> As far as Sasha, as others embarrassed you in the SD thread this past week, drawing an extra 10 viewers to her particular segment while the number for the entire show is good enough to finish second to last place every week doesn't make one a draw.


* Smackdown was fourth on friday and this is publicly documented, so I'm not sure why you're trying to push this nonsense about them being 2nd to last every week when everyone knows that's not true. It reaks of desperation and misery. Maybe if you didn't make claims you can't back up on a regular basis, you wouldn't be in this situation. It's funny how you're quiet about Becky though because you know you've embarrassed yourself on numerous occasions by calling her the biggest star in this company.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * Cut the crap. You desperately reach to 2015 Seth anytime Roman is brought up as the biggest male draw in the company. No one's buying your bullshit.*


Got it. So, you just made that up. Can't say I blame you. Reigns damn well better be the biggest draw in the entire company. No one has had anywhere near the push he has had, or been Champion for over a year. The fact that SD finishes in 2nd to last place every week despite the Reigns push is pathetic.



*



Smackdown was fourth on friday and this is publicly documented, so I'm not sure why you're trying to dying to push this nonsense about them being 2nd to last every week when everyone knows that's not true. It reaks a desperation and misery. Maybe if you didn't make claims you can backup on a regular basis, you wouldn't be in this situation. It's funny how you're quiet about Becky though because you know you've embarrassed yourself on numerous occasions by calling her the biggest star in this company.

Click to expand...

*4th place (this week) among 6 Networks.. There's only CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, My9, and CW. That's 6 Networks. I don't know how that's possible with the FOTC and Sasha THE DRAW Banks on the same show. But it is.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> It's funny how for certain posters the demo matters and then it doesn't matter. Literally picking and choosing when it matters. Weak ass bullshit trolling.


Wait, I just realized that you’re definitely right about that!

The demographic numbers get discredited by him ALL the time in these rating threads, but yet it suddenly matters now because Becky Lynch happens to be in the 3rd hour (which generally struggles the most compared to the other 2 hours).

I’m someone who believes that BOTH the overall viewership numbers and the demographic numbers matter though


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman was on the show last week? Did he pull a Cena? Because I didn’t see him.


Hey, remember when the current Universal Champion missed the latest FS1 episode of Smackdown in October, and ratings actually went UP to over a million viewers despite his absence?

He’s SUCH a “BIG TV DRAW” though!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, remember when the current Universal Champion missed the latest FS1 episode of Smackdown in October, and ratings actually went UP to over a million viewers despite his absence?
> 
> He’s SUCH a “BIG TV DRAW” though!


The fact that they're not far off from SD even when going head to head against the NFL is fucking hilarious. That doesn't even take into account being on Cable and having a 3rd hour.  So, if you're shitting on these numbers, you're indirectly shitting on SD's numbers as well. Because there's such a HUGE difference between 2 million vs. 1.6 million, especially when the latter is going head to head against the NFL and is on cable.


----------



## Mongstyle

Vince effect is gone. They got the bump post-Survivor Series thanks to him.

Back to regularly scheduled poor ratings now. The question now is if they can manage to sustain the average above 1.5 million. Still 3 Raw shows to go in what is historically a terrible month and Raw has been on a bad downtrend the last 2 months. Very real chance they could fall below 1.5 million, and slim chance they may flirt with 1.3-1.4 million.

Seth Floppins and Becky Stench doing what's expected of them.



Kentucky34 said:


> So RAW isn't really leaking viewers year on year?
> 
> Sweet.


They're literally down 30% from 2 years ago. And the ratings in 2019 were considered a disaster.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Got it. So, you just made that up. Can't say I blame you. Reigns damn well better be the biggest draw in the entire company. No one has had anywhere near the push he has had, or been Champion for over a year. The fact that SD finishes in 2nd to last place every week despite the Reigns push is pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4th place (this week) among 6 Networks.. There's only CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, My9, and CW. That's 6 Networks. I don't know how that's possible with the FOTC and Sasha THE DRAW Banks on the same show. But it is.


* I don't need to lie because I'm not you. I bring facts to debates with numbers to back them up. You make completely irrational statements based on your hatred for wrestlers and it backfires in your face every single time. That's why you STILL haven't spoken on spending the last 3 months calling Becky the biggest female star in the company.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> Vince effect is gone. They got the bump post-Survivor Series thanks to him.
> 
> Back to regularly scheduled poor ratings now. The question now is if they can manage to sustain the average above 1.5 million. Still 3 Raw shows to go in what is historically a terrible month and Raw has been on a bad downtrend the last 2 months. Very real chance they could fall below 1.5 million, and slim chance they may flirt with 1.3-1.4 million.
> 
> *Seth Floppins and Becky Stench doing what's expected of them.[/
> 
> 
> They're literally down 30% from 2 years ago. And the ratings in 2019 were considered a disaster.*


Who are those nonexistent wrestlers that you speak of here?

Oh, are you still pretending that you ‘know’ how ratings work again*?*


----------



## Mongstyle

Raw may very well not recover to even 1.7 million for Mania season if the current downtrend continues. That would also mean 1.5 million post-Mania and likely down to a normal of 1.3 million by December 2022.

If AEW Dynamite continues to maintain 800-900k over the next year, they could actually have a night they beat Raw if they pack the show and get over a million.

Crazy. A show with two plus decades of being the premier brand for WWE and Seth Floppins and Becky Stench nuked the shit out of it in 2019 to the point it has never recovered, and are now back to finish the job.

I fully expect Lesnar is going to Raw when Mania is done. No way they let this shitshow of a ratings fall continue. Worst case scenario, I see the brand split ending by 2023.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * I don't need to lie because I'm not you. I bring facts to debates with numbers to back them up. You make completely irrational statements based on your hatred for wrestlers and it backfires in your face every single time. That's why you STILL haven't spoken on spending the last 3 months calling Becky the biggest female star in the company.*


You have already lied, multiple times, actually. You said that I said that Seth is a bigger draw than Reigns. Never said it. It is a FACT that 2015 Raw's ratings are higher than Raw's and SD's current day ratings. That is not a "lie." That is a FACT. Not my problem that you can't accept that.

You try to paint Sasha as some huge draw, when everyone else laughs in your face about it on a weekly basis, as seen in the SD ratings thread this past week. You can try to push that narrative all you want, but as you saw, everyone knows it's BS.

I know it angers you that Becky's first "MAN" run *(I wasn't even a fan of hers at that point, so I could careless about this, but it's the truth)* was so hugely popular and successful to the point that it broke the glass ceiling of forcing Vince to have the women main event WM for the first time ever, but it did. _shrug_ 

None of that even takes into account when the "demo" matters and when it apparently doesn't to you. This is too easy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@The Legit DMD , did the Young Bucks tank the ratings….

oops, wrong thread - seemed like Dynamite ratings on the 3rd hour 

sorry for the confusion


----------



## Mongstyle

Big E got done dirty. Basically being given the Kofi run. They didn't build him up properly, threw the title on him in the worst quarter of the year, then paired him with Floppins who has been a glorified midcarder for the last 2 years after he flopped so badly back in 2019.

Gotta wonder if the title changes hands soon if only cos they want to shake things up and make them unpredictable to try and garner some interest. Other option would be a Goldberg feud but they should leave him be for a while.

Cena is also expected back for Mania season so they could bring him to Raw. It may not give them a big boost or anything, but if the ratings continue to be so shit, he may at least slow the bleed.


----------



## postmoderno

This is what they get for taking the egg off tv.

Bring back the egg and ratings will rebound


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Who are those nonexistent wrestlers that you speak of here?
> 
> Oh, are you still pretending that you ‘know’ how ratings work again*?*


He's irrelevant. Was banned for a week, and no one even noticed...on the entire forum.


----------



## Mongstyle

Probably cos I don't spend my life on here like you mate. I see the flop mentality exists in even Floppins fans.

Maybe Seth should become Vince's boytoy and take it up the ass a couple times like The Showflopper did back in the 90s. Maybe Vince will give him the ball after Seth drains his balls.

Mutually beneficial relationship that way.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Probably because no one cared or even noticed despite your desperate posting for attention. It obviously hasn't worked. _shrug_


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> You have already lied, multiple times, actually. You said that I said that Seth is a bigger draw than Reigns. Never said it. It is a FACT that 2015 Raw's ratings are higher than Raw's and SD's current day ratings. That is not a "lie." That is a FACT. Not my problem that you can't accept that.


* This is your desperate cop out anytime record low ratings Rollins strikes. Guess what? It was true back then and it's true now. You try to remove context to get people to focus on 4 mill versus 2 mill instead of the fact that Rollins brought the show to record low ratings at that point and he's doing it once again as a main "star" (by default) of RAW. Your implication is that Rollins is a bigger star than Roman because ratings were better when he was champion back then. You were wrong then and you're wrong now, so nothing has changed in 6 years besides the steady decline of RAW ratings. *



> You try to paint Sasha as some huge draw, when everyone else laughs in your face about it on a weekly basis, as seen in the SD ratings thread this past week. You can try to push that narrative all you want, but as you saw, everyone knows it's BS.


*
I mean I really don't care what you're laughing at when you make a joke of yourself on a daily basis by saying Becky is the top star of the women's division. That argument got blown to shit within 2 weeks of her being put on her own brand. Sasha can't relate to that level of mediocrity.*



> I know it angers you that Becky's first "MAN" run *(I wasn't even a fan of hers at that point, so I could careless about this, but it's the truth)* was so hugely popular and successful to the point that it broke the glass ceiling of forcing Vince to have the women main event WM for the first time ever, but it did. _shrug_


* Not really, because anyone with any kind of understanding of how this business works was fully aware that Ronda Rousey put them in that position, and the ratings after her retirement from WWE instantly plummeting confirmed that.*



> None of that even takes into account when the "demo" matters and when it apparently doesn't to you. This is too easy.


*Total number > demo. Both of those suck on RAW and the demo is now at a new record low of suckage. Not sure what you thought you were doing here but it backfired as per usual.*


----------



## Mongstyle

I'm not seeing how this is a bad thing. I understand internet clout on a wrestling forum of all things may be important to you since life must suck but it isn't to other normal people.

To some, like me, shitting on Seth Floppins and Becky Stench is satisfying enough. We're witnessing wrestling history. 1 man, 1 woman, who have been dropping nuclear bombs on a show with decades of history and will soon murder it for good.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Did a whole bunch of 49 year olds turn 50 in the same week?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * This is your desperate cop out anytime record low ratings Rollins strikes. Guess what? It was true back then and it's true now. You try to remove context to get people to focus on 4 mill versus 2 mill instead of the fact that Rollins brought the show to record low ratings at that point and he's doing it once again as a main "star" (by default) of RAW. Your implication is that Rollins is a bigger star than Roman because ratings were better when he was champion back then. You were wrong then and you're wrong now, so nothing has changed in 6 years besides the steady decline of RAW ratings.*




That's not me saying Rollins is a bigger draw than Reigns. But when you come out here and try to make 2 million on National Television some huge deal when you used to shit on Raw for doing a ton more than that on Cable, that says it all. Yes, those were Raw's record low numbers at that time. And guess what? They're almost double what SD is doing today...on FOX. Therefore, when you try to proclaim anyone on that show as a draw, it's laughable and hypocritical as fuck, and that's why people don't agree with you on this.



*



I mean I really don't care what you're laughing at when you make a joke of yourself on a daily basis by saying Becky is the top star of the women's division. That argument got blown to shit within 2 weeks of her being put on her own brand. Sasha can't relate to that level of mediocrity.

Click to expand...

*And that last sentence right there, is why people tore you a new one in the SD thread this past week. Thank you for making my point for me. Once again, too easy.


*



Not really, because anyone with any kind of understanding of how this business works was fully aware that Ronda Rousey put them in that position, and the ratings after her retirement from WWE instantly plummeting confirmed that.

Click to expand...

*If Ronda's opponent doesn't get as hot as Becky got in that time period, they don't main event. They both got them in that position, but if Ronda is just facing someone who isn't all that hot, she very likely doesn't main event. So much for "any kind of understanding of how this business works", though..


*



Total number > demo. Both of those suck on RAW and the demo is now at a new record low of suckage. Not sure what you thought you were doing here but it backfired as per usual.

Click to expand...

*And Raw isn't all that far behind SD these days despite all of the advantages that SD has. I'm sure FOX is thrilled with getting their ass kicked every for week for a billion bucks. At least they consistently beat the CW Network every week, though.


----------



## Mongstyle

Smackdown is 30% higher than Raw and can get as much as 40% on its high weeks. Raw is far behind.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Who are those nonexistent wrestlers that you speak of here?
> 
> Oh, are you still pretending that you ‘know’ how ratings work again*?*


2 million vs. 1.6 million; with the higher one being on Network TV is pathetic. FOX must be looking at Raw and SD's numbers factoring in what they paid WWE and be thinking, "what the fuck?"

They can just go to a TV studio and pay them probably around $500K for the rights to air an old school sitcom in SD's time-slot and get the same exact results.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mongstyle said:


> I'm not seeing how this is a bad thing. I understand internet clout on a wrestling forum of all things may be important to you since life must suck but it isn't to other normal people.
> 
> To some, like me, shitting on Seth Floppins and Becky Stench is satisfying enough. We're witnessing wrestling history. 1 man, 1 woman, who have been dropping nuclear bombs on a show with decades of history and will soon murder it for good.


Lol, Seth isn't even champion or pushed as the face of the brand. 

They would kill for the ratings Seth was drawing in 2019 now. Even then he didn't have good booking and he wasn't FOTC. 

The biggest ratings flop in recent years has been Reigns. He's been given a monster push and hasn't drawn a dime.


----------



## Mongstyle

Kentucky34 said:


> Lol, Seth isn't even champion or pushed as the face of the brand.
> 
> They would kill for the ratings Seth was drawing in 2019 now. Even then he didn't have good booking and he wasn't FOTC.
> 
> The biggest ratings flop in recent years has been Reigns. He's been given a monster push and hasn't drawn a dime.


Doesn't work like that. The 2019 numbers were a disaster and are a big reason why they're in the position they're in today.

They wouldn't kill for those ratings. They'd kill to go back and do a redo of that entire period that stops this car from being driven off a cliff.

And there is no bigger flop than Seth Floppins. They pushed him as hard as possible and he nuked the show in record time then got replaced by Drew McIntyre in 3 months. Drew who was a literal midcarder and had done nothing of importance.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> That's not me saying Rollins is a bigger draw than Reigns. But when you come out here and try to make 2 million on National Television some huge deal when you used to shit on Raw for doing a ton more than that on Cable, that says it all. Yes, those were Raw's record low numbers at that time. And guess what? They're almost double what SD is doing today...on FOX. Therefore, when you try to proclaim anyone on that show as a draw, it's laughable and hypocritical as fuck, and that's why people don't agree with you on this.
> 
> And that last sentence right there, is why people tore you a new one in the SD thread this past week. Thank you for making my point for me. Once again, too easy.


* Does Sasha have the highest rated segments? Yes. Therefore, she is the biggest draw. This isn't up for debate. You don't get to disagree with facts. I don't care how you feel about it because it's not going to change a damn thing. All that laughing behind the tears of realizing Becky isn't a draw at all isn't going to mask the truth.*




> If Ronda's opponent doesn't get as hot as Becky got in that time period, they don't main event. They both got them in that position, but if Ronda is just facing someone who isn't all that hot, she very likely doesn't main event. So much for "any kind of understanding of how this business works", though..


* But you don't understand how the business works, because Becky would have main evented with Shayna the next year if she were the star you thought she was, since they had Shayna squash everyone in the worst Elimination Chamber of all time just to be fed to her.

The entire mainstream focus of Becky's main event was Ronda. Sasha and Bianca got all the focus as full time WWE wrestlers, not because they were carried by a UFC star, and received an ESPY award for their performance. Becky can't relate.*



> And Raw isn't all that far behind SD these days despite all of the advantages that SD has. I'm sure FOX is thrilled with getting their ass kicked every for week for a billion bucks. At least they consistently beat the CW Network every week, though.


* Raw has hit a record low of record lows in a record amount of time under Seth and Becky. That's really not something you should be bragging about, but I'm not surprised you'd try it.*


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> 2 million vs. 1.6 million; with the higher one being on Network TV is pathetic. FOX must be looking at Raw and SD's numbers factoring in what they paid WWE and be thinking, "what the fuck?"
> 
> They can just go to a TV studio and pay them probably around $500K for the rights to air an old school sitcom in SD's time-slot and get the same exact results.


Considering SD is usually #1 on network TV in the 18-49 demo, Fox is probably happy. I'll be surprised if they don't renew it in 2024, but I think there's a chance NBC outbids them to get it back.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> * This is your desperate cop out anytime record low ratings Rollins strikes. Guess what? It was true back then and it's true now. You try to remove context to get people to focus on 4 mill versus 2 mill instead of the fact that Rollins brought the show to record low ratings at that point and he's doing it once again as a main "star" (by default) of RAW. Your implication is that Rollins is a bigger star than Roman because ratings were better when he was champion back then. You were wrong then and you're wrong now, so nothing has changed in 6 years besides the steady decline of RAW ratings. *


Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself with your awful argument here?

You ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that Raw has steadily been declining with the viewership over the past several years no matter WHO they push, but yet you have the nerve to blame talents like Seth Rollins or Becky Lynch for the low ratings. Both of those names were gone from Raw for A YEAR, and the ratings STILL continued to decline. 

You call @Showstopper out for blaming the current Universal Champion for the unimpressive numbers on Smackdown due to his "irrational hatred" for the guy, but yet you're guilty of doing the same to wrestlers you dislike each week.

You keep giving unfair crap to talents like CM Punk, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, and the Young Bucks for any minor dips on the AEW ratings thread. You're being a hypocrite again, dude.


> *I mean I really don't care what you're laughing at when you make a joke of yourself on a daily basis by saying Becky is the top star of the women's division. That argument got blown to shit within 2 weeks of her being put on her own brand. Sasha can't relate to that level of mediocrity.
> 
> 
> Not really, because anyone with any kind of understanding of how this business works was fully aware that Ronda Rousey put them in that position, and the ratings after her retirement from WWE instantly plummeting confirmed that.
> 
> 
> Total number > demo. Both of those suck on RAW and the demo is now at a new record low of suckage. Not sure what you thought you were doing here but it backfired as per usual.*


For the record, yes, you do care about people laughing at you weekly.


----------



## Mongstyle

At least Seth and Becky are breaking records, even if they're the wrong records. Maybe they'll fatality the longest running weekly episodic cable show in history.

Biggest record broken. Huge. Ending a streak even longer than Undertaker's.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DammitChrist said:


> Your guy LOST to the Bunny in October. You have NO leg to stand on regarding the ratings topic, dude.


And Ruby Soho. Say her name dammit. She's not stuck in catering anymore.


----------



## thorwold

Damn. Poor Becky, and especially, poor Liv.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *This didn't do what you think it did. *


Really did tho. It shows the main demo (You know, the one WWE used to cherry pick when claiming they were #1 in all of cable) has been cut in half in 2 years.



The Legit DMD said:


> * Smackdown was fourth on friday and this is publicly documented, so I'm not sure why you're trying to push this nonsense about them being 2nd to last every week when everyone knows that's not true. It reaks of desperation and misery. Maybe if you didn't make claims you can't back up on a regular basis, you wouldn't be in this situation. It's funny how you're quiet about Becky though because you know you've embarrassed yourself on numerous occasions by calling her the biggest star in this company.*


So that's a no on finding those posts then?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> * Does Sasha have the highest rated segments? Yes. Therefore, she is the biggest draw. This isn't up for debate. You don't get to disagree with facts. I don't care how you feel about it because it's not going to change a damn thing. All that laughing behind the tears of realizing Becky isn't a draw at all isn't going to mask the truth.*


*

Well, you have a hard time accepting that Raw from past years is drawing much more than what SD does these days. So, that also isn't up for debate, either. shrug But enjoy her drawing 10 more viewers in her segment, I guess. Everyone else laughs their ass off about it on here.






But you don't understand how the business works, because Becky would have main evented with Shayna the next year if she were the star you thought she was, since they had Shayna squash everyone in the worst Elimination Chamber of all time. 

The entire mainstream focus of Becky's main event was Ronda. Sasha and Bianca got all the focus as full time WWE wrestlers, not because they were carried by a UFC star, and received an ESPY award for their performance. Becky can't relate.

Click to expand...

It got hot because WWE wanted people to cheer Ronda, but instead they said "nah" and decided to cheer for Becky instead to the point where it was undeniable that Becky had to take on Ronda at WM...and in the main event. Becky doesn't get hot, who knows who Ronda feuds with, and it doesn't main event, either.

For the rest of time, it will go down in the history books that Becky and Ronda broke the glass-ceiling. Not anyone else. And they didn't "main event" on "Night One" of WM. They main-evented in NY on the one and only night of WM. Not any of the other women. That can never be argued.






Raw has hit a record low of record lows in a record amount of time under Seth and Becky. That's really not something you should be bragging about, but I'm not surprised you'd try it.

Click to expand...

*SD does barely any better and that's with every advantage possible. You try to convince everyone that on a weekly basis that Sasha is a draw despite everyone laughing their ass off at the notion every week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> And Roman damn well better be a bigger draw than Seth and everyone else in the entire company. No one has had 1/4 the push Reigns has had.


*Seth Rollins:
MITB Cash in in the WrestleMania main event
4x World Champion
Intercontinental Champion
US Champion
Tag Team Champion
2019 Royal Rumble winner
Record low ratings champion in 2015 and 2021

But please, let's keep acting like Seth is out here curtain jerking and jobbing like Dolph Ziggler while Roman is on an 8 year undefeated streak.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> * Does Sasha have the highest rated segments? Yes. Therefore, she is the biggest draw. This isn't up for debate. You don't get to disagree with facts. I don't care how you feel about it because it's not going to change a damn thing. All that laughing behind the tears of realizing Becky isn't a draw at all isn't going to mask the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> But you don't understand how the business works, because Becky would have main evented with Shayna the next year if she were the star you thought she was, since they had Shayna squash everyone in the worst Elimination Chamber of all time just to be fed to her.
> 
> The entire mainstream focus of Becky's main event was Ronda. Sasha and Bianca got all the focus as full time WWE wrestlers, not because they were carried by a UFC star, and received an ESPY award for their performance. Becky can't relate.
> 
> 
> 
> Raw has hit a record low of record lows in a record amount of time under Seth and Becky. That's really not something you should be bragging about, but I'm not surprised you'd try it.*


Jesus Christ, NOBODY on here is "crying," dude.

Enough with the nonsense already.

For the record, are you ACTUALLY implying that Becky "isn't" a big star simply because she didn't main event either night at Wrestlemania 36 even though that big ppv had NO CROWDS at the height of the pandemic?

You realize that someone can make the same claim about Sasha Banks since she was in a world title match, and didn't main event either night, right?

I can't believe that you're this upset because Becky Lynch was the first woman to close a Wrestlemania ppv and WIN. Besides, she was the first woman to make some (minor) appearances or get exposure to the mainstream media before Sasha Banks and Bianca Belair (LOL at using here btw 😂 )


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit DMD said:


> *Seth Rollins:
> MITB Cash in in the WrestleMania main event
> World Champion
> Intercontinental Champion
> US Champion
> Tag Team Champion
> 2019 Royal Rumble winner
> Record low ratings champion in 2015 and 2021
> 
> But please, let's keep acting like Seth is out here curtain jerking and jobbing like Dolph Ziggler while Roman is on an 8 year undefeated streak.*


I know you don't want me to go through Reign's resume..

Have fun knowing that Jinder Mahal drew more than Reigns as Champion on SD when SD was still on cable, by the way.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Jesus Christ, NOBODY on here is "crying," dude.
> 
> Enough with the nonsense already.
> 
> For the record, are you ACTUALLY implying that Becky "isn't" a big star simply because she didn't main event either night at Wrestlemania 36 even though that big ppv had NO CROWDS at the height of the pandemic?
> 
> You realize that someone can make the same claim about Sasha Banks since she was in a world title match, and didn't main event either night, right?
> 
> I can't believe that you're this upset because Becky Lynch was the first woman to close a Wrestlemania ppv and WIN. Besides, she was the first woman to make some (minor) appearances/exposure to the mainstream media before Sasha Banks and Bianca Belair (LOL at using here btw 😂 )


I LOVE that Becky pisses him off so much and main evented WM first. I will absolutely be keeping that in mind in the future. It's fucking FANTASTIC.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> *Well, you have a hard time accepting that Raw from past years is drawing much more than what SD does these days. So, that also isn't up for debate, either. shrug But enjoy her drawing 10 more viewers in her segment, I guess. Everyone else laughs their ass off about it on here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It got hot because WWE wanted people to cheer Ronda, but instead they said "nah" and decided to cheer for Becky instead to the point where it was undeniable that Becky had to take on Ronda at WM...and in the main event. Becky doesn't get hot, who knows who Ronda feuds with, and it doesn't main event, either.
> 
> For the rest of time, it will go down in the history books that Becky and Ronda broke the glass-ceiling. Not anyone else. And they didn't "main event" on "Night One" of WM. They main-evented in NY on the one and only night of WM. Not any of the other women. That can never be argued.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SD does barely any better and that's with every advantage possible. You try to convince everyone that on a weekly basis that Sasha is a draw despite everyone laughing their ass off at the notion every week.


Jeez, he's such a troll that you have to deal with removing the bolded font whenever you cut his quotes in multiple parts.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Seth is probably crying over his Nazi memorabillia while having traumatic flashbacks to when that dude almost raped him in front of the world right now.
> 
> "BECKY WHY? WHY IS IT LIKE THIS?"
> 
> Meanwhile Becky's just celebrating being the first trans woman to ever give birth.


You gotta do better than that. That's just...corny.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> I know you don't want me to go through Reign's resume..
> 
> Have fun knowing that Jinder Mahal drew more than Reigns as Champion on SD when SD was still on cable, by the way.


And Roman drew more as champ on Raw back in 2016 than Seth did in 2019.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Mongstyle said:


> Big E got done dirty.


Big E is Big Fucked. Vince will hold these ratings against him for years.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Seth Rollins:
> MITB Cash in in the WrestleMania main event
> 4x World Champion
> Intercontinental Champion
> US Champion
> Tag Team Champion
> 2019 Royal Rumble winner
> Record low ratings champion in 2015 and 2021
> 
> But please, let's keep acting like Seth is out here curtain jerking and jobbing like Dolph Ziggler while Roman is on an 8 year undefeated streak.*


I'm pretty sure that your guy "did" a record low rating in November 2015 when Raw's viewership finally sunk underneath 3 million viewers, which was almost unheard of at the time; so I don't see why you're giving Seth Rollins that dumb title here.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> And Roman drew more as champ on Raw back in 2016 than Seth did in 2019.


And Seth drew more in 2015 than any of them.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> And Seth drew more in 2015 than any of them.


Because TV is dying. Fewer people watch every year. That's the point I'm making.


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> And Roman drew more as champ on Raw back in 2016 than Seth did in 2019.


Rollins drew more in 2015 than the current Universal Champion did using your poor logic.

Stay out of this argument, @machomanjohncena .


----------



## DammitChrist

Apparently, race and gender is somehow related to the ratings topic.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Apparently, race and gender is somehow related to the ratings topic.


Woof. Someone did a NUMBER on that dude in real life.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mongstyle said:


> Doesn't work like that. The 2019 numbers were a disaster and are a big reason why they're in the position they're in today.
> 
> They wouldn't kill for those ratings. They'd kill to go back and do a redo of that entire period that stops this car from being driven off a cliff.
> 
> And there is no bigger flop than Seth Floppins. They pushed him as hard as possible and he nuked the show in record time then got replaced by Drew McIntyre in 3 months. Drew who was a literal midcarder and had done nothing of importance.


McIntyre lost far more viewers than Rollins did. 

Rollins's segments increase viewership. He drew a massive rating with Cesaro earlier this year when WWE advertised it.


----------



## Mongstyle

DammitChrist said:


> I'm pretty sure that your guy "did" a record low rating in November 2015 when Raw's viewership finally sunk underneath 3 million viewers, which was almost unheard of at the time; so I don't see why you're giving Seth Rollins that dumb title here.


Small brain syndrome at it again.

The Reigns title run in late 2015 got them back on the uptrend. They broke 4 million viewers regularly in January.

Basically Seth Floppins set them up to fail really badly with how they lost a million viewers in Summer yet they made a huge recovery starting December which is unheard of.

Usually November is a downtrend and December is even worse and the January recovery only gets them to Summer numbers of the previous year at best. In 2016, the January recovery had them beat Summer 2015 because of how shit the Summer in 2015 was for ratings. That was Reigns title run.



Kentucky34 said:


> McIntyre lost far more viewers than Rollins did.
> 
> Rollins's segments increase viewership. He drew a massive rating with Cesaro earlier this year when WWE advertised it.


Drew being a flop doesn't change Seth being a flop. If anything, the fact WWE decided to have Drew become the number 2 full-time guy (a spot he still holds) shows just how poor the Seth run was in 2019. He flopped so hard that Seth literally lost his spot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@The Definition of Technician

*I know we discussed not holding random 3rd hour segments against Becky, but this was a title match with 2 weeks of advertisement that main evented on the anniversary of Trish and Lita's main event. This is a massive L for the drawing power you thought Becky had. Please wave the white flag so we can go back to mocking AEW.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468625555532746758*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Apparently, race and gender is somehow related to the ratings topic.


Great point about late 2015. When Seth got injured, that's the first time the third hour of Raw went below 3 million viewers. And not even 2.9, but 2.8.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mongstyle said:


> *Small brain syndrome at it again.*
> 
> The Reigns title run in late 2015 got them back on the uptrend. They broke 4 million viewers regularly in January.
> 
> Basically Seth Floppins set them up to fail really badly with how they lost a million viewers in Summer yet they made a huge recovery starting December which is unheard of.
> 
> Usually November is a downtrend and December is even worse and the January recovery only gets them to Summer numbers at best. In 2016, the January recovery had them beat Summer 2015 because of how shit the Summer in 2015 was for ratings.


I saw your previous 2 posts, dude. You don't get to make fun of anyone else's brain size.

I love how you conveniently use the winter months to justify those unimpressive numbers in previous years (which is a VALID reason), but you can't even do the same with the current ratings since we're in December atm. You're just as big of a hypocrite too.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Mongstyle said:


> Truth is just truth. It's not corny.
> 
> Becky should go in for tests and let scientists discover how a biological man managed to give birth. She would help many trans women out there.
> 
> Seth should finally stop being a racist. A black man beating his ass was just a coincidence. The man could've easily been white or any other colour. He'll use this incident to retroactively justify his racist tendencies instead of becoming a better person.


WTF?


----------



## Dr. Middy

This heel run of Becky's isn't working. Really honestly wasn't a good idea in the first place to do it, makes me wonder how much it hurt her popularity. That 3rd hour was rough, I really wanted it to do well given Liv getting the main event, but in reality it was a stupid idea to do a 3rd hour a decade ago. Didn't help there was a big NFL game on too. 



Mongstyle said:


> Seth is probably crying over his Nazi memorabillia while having traumatic flashbacks to when that dude almost raped him in front of the world right now. "BECKY WHY? WHY IS IT LIKE THIS?"
> 
> Meanwhile Becky's just celebrating being the first trans woman to ever give birth.


You got some serious mental issues dude? Getting this kind of angry and throwing around trans and rape insults like that. Pretty pathetic lol.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> Great point about late 2015. When Seth got injured, that's the first time the third hour of Raw went below 3 million viewers. And not even 2.9, but 2.8.


Actually that has nothing to do with Floppins injury. It was a taped episode. Raw already had multiple 3rd hours flirting with 3 million as early as September 2015.

Floppins was already on his way to taking them sub-3 million for the 3rd hour. What's important is when he left, Raw went back on a streak of getting over 4 million viewers for something like 10 weeks.


DammitChrist said:


> I saw your previous 2 posts, dude. You don't get to make fun of anyone else's brain size.
> 
> I love how you conveniently use the winter months to justify those unimpressive numbers in previous years (which is a VALID reason), but you can't even do the same with the current ratings since we're in December atm. You're just as a big of a hypocrite too.


If the numbers were around 1.7 million, I wouldn't shit on them. They'd be bad but it's in line with how Raw was trending for months.

The problem is the accelerated downtrend. Raw's trend to the downside has increased in the last 2 months. All that changed was the draft. Despite being given plenty of talent, it made things worse.

All I can think is Seth Floppins and Becky Stench are fucking things up again since there is a proven history of them doing that.


----------



## Mongstyle

Dr. Middy said:


> You got some serious mental issues dude? Getting this kind of angry and throwing around trans and rape insults like that. Pretty pathetic lol.


That's messed up you consider being trans an insult. What a fucked up thing to say.

As for the rape jokes, a racist is fair game for all sorts of jokes. Maybe if Seth wasn't a part of the KKK, it'd be different.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

2 weeks after that first dip below 3 million for hour 3 in 2015, they did even lower at 2.7 million, and this episode wasn't taped.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dr. Middy said:


> This heel run of Becky's isn't working. Really honestly wasn't a good idea in the first place to do it, makes me wonder how much it hurt her popularity. That 3rd hour was rough, I really wanted it to do well given Liv getting the main event, but in reality it was a stupid idea to do a 3rd hour a decade ago. Didn't help there was a big NFL game on too.
> 
> 
> 
> You got some serious mental issues dude? Getting this kind of angry and throwing around trans and rape insults like that. Pretty pathetic lol.


Pretty sad what this site has become, isn't it? It's better when no one sells him. He was just banned for a week and no one even noticed.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> This heel run of Becky's isn't working. Really honestly wasn't a good idea in the first place to do it, makes me wonder how much it hurt her popularity. That 3rd hour was rough, I really wanted it to do well given Liv getting the main event, but in reality it was a stupid idea to do a 3rd hour a decade ago. Didn't help there was a big NFL game on too.


*The entire execution of her return has been a disaster since day 1. No one is better off than they were while she was gone, and all of her matches end in shitty roll ups.*


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> 2 weeks after that first dip below 3 million for hour 3 in 2015, they did even lower at 2.7 million, and this episode wasn't taped.


And then they went on an uptrend and managed to break 4 million for over 2 months.

What kind of shit point are you trying to make?

Those low numbers are a direct results of Seth Floppins and his shit title reign destroying the show. He got injured, they readjusted, and ratings made a big recovery.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> And then they went on an uptrend and managed to break 4 million for over 2 months.
> 
> What kind of shit point are you trying to make?
> 
> Those low numbers are a direct results of Seth Floppins and his shit title reign destroying the show. He got injured, they readjusted, and ratings made a big recovery.


Yeah, for the Road to WM, and they went to even lower, with Seth still gone.

Talk about a shit point. When Seth was on the show in 2015, EVERY Hour 3 stayed above 3 million. When he was gone, Hour 3 went below 3 million.

Facts.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Mongstyle said:


> That's messed up you consider being trans an insult. What a fucked up thing to say.
> 
> As for the rape jokes, a racist is fair game for all sorts of jokes. Maybe if Seth wasn't a part of the KKK, it'd be different.


Guess reading comprehension isn't there either.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> Yeah, for the Road to WM, and they went to even lower, with Seth still gone.
> 
> Talk about a shit point. When Seth was on the show in 2015, EVERY Hour 3 stayed above 3 million. When he was gone, Hour 3 went below 3 million.
> 
> Facts.


Actually, no they didn't. Raw ratings recovered to a high of over 4 million, and even post-Mania, they maintained an average higher than Seth's title run viewership.

They never fell below the average of that Seth title run... until Seth Floppins showed up again prior to MITB. 🤣

Holy shit. I can't believe I never checked this before. The ratings literally start falling again when he returns in 2016 and then get worse again as he feuds in the main event scene.

Fucking hell. This flop really does have a history of fucking up the ratings.

So now we have Raw ratings crashing during his title run in 2015, making an unprecedented recovery after his injury heading into 2016, then his return in 2016 fucking it up again, then Raw ratings being pretty normal in terms of decline until 2019 when he gets another chance in the main event and he nukes them completely. And now in 2021, his arrival on Raw accelerated the downtrend again. This dude really is a cancer for ratings. 🤣


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *The entire execution of her return has been a disaster since day 1. No one is better off than they were while she was gone, and all of her matches end in shitty roll ups.*


I'll always enjoy Becky given she's my favorite, but it never made sense to have her come back as a heel with all the babyface goodwill she had when she left originally. I mean that whole pregnancy segment with Asuka legit was some of the best pure babyface stuff in the world, and you could have easily made her a top babyface right from her return. And even if they wanted to turn her, and if she wanted to be a heel, great, but you need to build to that which they did none of. 

I mean I think she's actually wrestling better overall since coming back, apart from too many rollups (some are okay, like the Charlotte match which made sense), and she is still cutting good promos and is trying to be a heel against women like Bianca and Liv, but it was a failed experiment because they clearly still want to cheer her. At this point, I'd throw in the towel and just turn her back honestly, build to a respect type feud with Liv where she loses to her and Liv can hold the title for a few months.


----------



## Mongstyle

In hindsight, Seth Floppins being left out of the main event from late 2016 until late 2018 makes sense. They probably saw that shit and were like leave this ratings poison in the midcard. And then when they took another chance on him due to Reigns cancer, he fucked it up so bad they basically removed him from his spot and gave it to Drew. 🤣🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> Actually, no they didn't. Raw ratings recovered to a high of over 4 million, and even post-Mania, they maintained an average higher than Seth's title run viewership.
> 
> They never fell below the average of that Seth title run... until Seth Floppins showed up again prior to MITB. 🤣
> 
> Holy shit. I can't believe I never checked this before. The ratings literally start falling again when he returns in 2016 and then get worse again as he feuds in the main event scene.
> 
> Fucking hell. This flop really does have a history of fucking up the ratings.
> 
> So now we have Raw ratings crashing during his title run in 2015, making an unprecedented recovery after his injury heading into 2016, then his return in 2016 fucking it up again, then Raw ratings being pretty normal in terms of decline until 2019 when he gets another chance in the main event and he nukes them completely. And now in 2021, his arrival on Raw accelerated the downtrend again. This dude really is a cancer for ratings. 🤣


The 2016 Road to WM was the lowest rated Road to WM ever up to that point. What are you even talking about?


----------



## KingofKings1524

Raw better get MEGA DRAW Sasha Banks back quick. Only she is capable of bringing in the additional 8 thousand fans that Raw needs.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Mongstyle said:


> In hindsight, Seth Floppins being left out of the main event from late 2016 until late 2018 makes sense. They probably saw that shit and were like leave this ratings poison in the midcard. And then when they took another chance on him due to Reigns cancer, he fucked it up so bad they basically removed him from his spot and gave it to Drew. 🤣🤣


And then they went lower in 2016, 2017, 2018, and so on and so forth with others at the top.


----------



## Mongstyle

Showstopper said:


> The 2016 Road to WM was the lowest rated Road to WM ever up to that point. What are you even talking about?


I'm talking about Seth's title run having an average of 3.6 million and that Road to Mania recovering to the tune of 600-700k viewers after Floppins run took them to record lows and managing over 4 million viewers for over 10 weeks once he was gone.

Unprecedented recovery. The Road to Mania never has that kind of bump.


----------



## Mongstyle

Remember Seth's interview from a couple weeks ago. "I WAS TERRIFIED!"

Big E is the one who should be terrified. This ratings poison is gonna kill the ratings for the 4th or 5th time and Big E is gonna get the blame.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I can't even imagine being that deeply hurt in life that this what this dude's life has become.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

KingofKings1524 said:


> Raw better get MEGA DRAW Sasha Banks back quick. Only she is capable of bringing in the additional 8 thousand fans that Raw needs.


Don't forget Roman Reigns and his 9000 WM main events for the honor of getting FOX's ass kicked every week on national television.


----------



## Mongstyle

My life is good.

I don't go around supporting racists unlike a certain someone. Maybe a big scary black man did something to you too.

Anyway, I've had my fun. I'll return when the show inevitably falls to 1.5 million or lower since Seth Floppins and Becky Stench will almost assuredly finish the job.

Raw needs the fucking Batman to stop this violation and crimes being committed against it.

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

"My life is good."

Now, don't mind me as I go on a rampage with transphobic posts left and right and for some strange reason mentioning the KKK and what have you.

Clearly, this guy has a good life and is really well adjusted, though.


----------



## Mongstyle

Now hold on buddeh. I support Becky's rights as a trans woman. Trans women are women.

I'll leave on that note. That's enough laughter for me today.

Gonna flip flop floppety Seth Floppins my way out.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ahhhh, so that's what it is. Clearly, he's been rejected by every woman that he's ever come into contact with. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## EvilDead

The Miz returns and ratings tank!

What a surprise!

He should retire to D-list Hollywood and give us all a break.


----------



## Seafort

Mongstyle said:


> Raw needs the Batman to stop this violation and crimes being committed against it.
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣


This is wrestling and WWE owns WCW...could they get RoboCop out of storage instead of Batman?


----------



## SPCDRI

Edge shows up, 3 million a year to wrestle guys he has already wrestled but they are both 10 years older, viewership in the toilet and their lowest demo ever. Edge's contract stinks and his programs suck.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Oh, by the way, that was the best Monday Night Football rating since Week 1. I'm sure that had no effect, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

This thread the last few pages was more entertaining than WWE has been in years.


----------



## Headliner

Mongstyle has been banned from the thread. A reminder not to bait the guy and escalate the situation even further.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Let's wait and see what kind of numbers RAW does after there's no more MNF. January 3rd will be the last MNF of the season. 

Meltzer said this about the third hour:



> As far as the keys to the drop, from hour one to three, women 18-49 dropped 21 percent, men 18-49 dropped eight percent, teenage girls dropped 45 percent, teenage boys dropped 38 percent, and over 50 dropped 10 percent.
> 
> The big drops with younger viewers in a third hour built around a Becky Lynch vs. Liv Morgan Raw Women's Championship match tells a story that a lot of people will be very upset about, especially as the culmination of a several week-long program.


That's too bad because the storyline was intriguing.

In regards to the numbers over the years I'll say this: no one person is a major draw for the company, and that is by design. Remember there was a report that said WWE doesn't want anyone to be bigger than the company? 

Another issue with the ratings is that the company is losing viewers because they're focusing more on long matches than creating storylines. Going to commercial break for a match with no stakes will lose viewers -- WWE has been doing this for years.


----------



## postmoderno

#BadNewsSanta said:


> This thread the last few pages was more entertaining than WWE has been in years.


Man, I dunno. I find this thread a lot more entertaining when everyone's laughing at how bad the WWE is doing, not marks fighting with each other about who's a draw and who isn't.

But I guess entertainment value is highly subjective. There are people who think Raw is great right now, for example. Imagine.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

postmoderno said:


> Man, I dunno. I find this thread a lot more entertaining when everyone's laughing at how bad the WWE is doing, not marks fighting with each other about who's a draw and who isn't.
> 
> But I guess entertainment value is highly subjective. There are people who think Raw is great right now, for example. Imagine.


What issues do you have with RAW?


----------



## postmoderno

The Boy Wonder said:


> What issues do you have with RAW?


Off the top of my head: roster almost entirely comprised of interchangeable nameless gray faces, with no distinguishing personalities or traits. Absurd amount of fuck finishes. Poor to nonexistent storytelling. Boring champion. Canned, scripted promos that sound like they were written by a middle schooler. Shaky cam/too many camera cuts. Endless rematches or iterations of the same match (tag match one week, singles matches with same talent the next). Overproduced. Uninspired commentary that adds nothing.

Other than that, I guess it's ok.


----------



## DaSlacker

Raw was solid this week, by current standards, from what I saw of it. But it's a cold product. They did too much damage to the WWE product between 2018 and 2019. Then the pandemic happened and they hit rock bottom. Releasing or saying bye to so many characters probably hasn't helped. They invested time and resources into Dean Ambrose, Braun Strowman, Daniel Bryan, Bray Wyatt, Rusev, Adam Cole, Keith Lee, Aleister Black, Andrade, Karrion Kross, Lars Sullivan, Velveteen Dream, Elias and John Morrison. Only for them to vanish offscreen. 

I remember when I was a kid and the mass exodus of 1992-1993 happened. It just wasn't the same anymore and would take several years of putting over new talent and a switch in format for it to feel hot again.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Have y'all really been arguing for the last nearly 4 hours? Do you not have something better to do?

RAW with a terrible number again, I still can't even understand why there are people celebrating the number when it's below 1.6 million. In what universe is that a good number for RAW??? The show which was getting 3s and sometimes 4s up to 5 years ago, and we're celebrating a measly 1.6? Pathetic. 

Don't start with the "Oh but the demo was good!" Fuck the demo, at least I'm always consistent in saying the demo doesn't matter across all shows. Viewership is all I care about.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Have y'all really been arguing for the last nearly 4 hours? Do you not have something better to do?
> 
> RAW with a terrible number again, I still can't even understand why there are people celebrating the number when it's below 1.6 million. In what universe is that a good number for RAW??? The show which was getting 3s and sometimes 4s up to 5 years ago, and we're celebrating a measly 1.6? Pathetic.
> 
> Don't start with the "Oh but the demo was good!" Fuck the demo, at least I'm always consistent in saying the demo doesn't matter across all shows. Viewership is all I care about.


You're sadly wrong since the demographic numbers still matter too.

Thankfully, there'll still be plenty of folks who will continue to talk about their importance on here in spite of you blatantly turning a blind eye to them.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> You're sadly wrong since the demographic numbers still matter too.
> 
> Thankfully, there'll still be plenty of folks who will continue to talk about their importance on here in spite of you blatantly turning a blind eye to them.


If the demo is important to you that's fine, but it's not to me. I don't care about the type of people watching the show or the age bracket or whatever, I just care about the total amount watching, and RAW ain't got many watching.


----------



## Erik.

Ratings really are a moot point in 2021. 

Do you honestly believe if you could legally stream, illegally stream and DVR things back during the Monday Night Wars (all whilst having ALOT more to actually watch) - the ratings would have been 5,000,000 a week?


----------



## KingofKings1524

postmoderno said:


> Off the top of my head: roster almost entirely comprised of interchangeable nameless gray faces, with no distinguishing personalities or traits. Absurd amount of fuck finishes. Poor to nonexistent storytelling. Boring champion. Canned, scripted promos that sound like they were written by a middle schooler. Shaky cam/too many camera cuts. Endless rematches or iterations of the same match (tag match one week, singles matches with same talent the next). Overproduced. Uninspired commentary that adds nothing.
> 
> Other than that, I guess it's ok.


Well said.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> @The Definition of Technician
> 
> *I know we discussed not holding random 3rd hour segments against Becky, but this was a title match with 2 weeks of advertisement that main evented on the anniversary of Trish and Lita's main event. This is a massive L for the drawing power you thought Becky had. Please wave the white flag so we can go back to mocking AEW.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468625555532746758*


Mate, I genuinely don't have time to scratch my balls these days so I'm gona give you this W.
However, you should know the wrestling business is cyclical and this is just a bump in the road. I did expect the 3rd hour to hold up better but oh well, nothing saves it. Roman/Big E/Lashley (much bigger match than anything involving Liv) lost 200K in the 3rd), and they could advertise it all they want, just like Zayn/Roman, nobody believed the challenger will win.
Don't hate me when I bring up Sasha's moments of failure of drawing in the future. Just wait till she's on RAW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Mate, I genuinely don't have time to scratch my balls these days so I'm gona give you this W.
> However, you should know the wrestling business is cyclical and this is just a bump in the road. I did expect the 3rd hour to hold up better but oh well, nothing saves it. Roman/Big E/Lashley (much bigger match than anything involving Liv) lost 200K in the 3rd), and they could advertise it all they want, just like Zayn/Roman, nobody believed the challenger will win.
> Don't hate me when I bring up Sasha's moments of failure of drawing in the future. Just wait till she's on RAW.


*Fox ain't letting her go lol. She hasn't been a RAW wrestler since the brand split returned.*


----------



## TheGunnShow

The Legit DMD said:


> *Fox ain't letting her go lol. She hasn't been a RAW wrestler since the brand split returned.*


She was on Raw from 2016-2019


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TheGunnShow said:


> She was on Raw from 2016-2019


*I meant since the FOX premiere with The Rock. They aren't getting rid of her. She's their biggest star and they know it.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> Mate, I genuinely don't have time to scratch my balls these days so I'm gona give you this W.
> However, you should know the wrestling business is cyclical and this is just a bump in the road. I did expect the 3rd hour to hold up better but oh well, nothing saves it. Roman/Big E/Lashley (much bigger match than anything involving Liv) lost 200K in the 3rd), and they could advertise it all they want, just like Zayn/Roman, nobody believed the challenger will win.
> Don't hate me when I bring up Sasha's moments of failure of drawing in the future. Just wait till she's on RAW.


Well said. They would never send Sasha to Raw. Instead of SD finishing almost last every week, they might actually finish last!


----------



## Kentucky34

Banks is not a draw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Even with going up against the most anticipated Monday Night Football game of this year (and the first or second highest rated of the year); Patriots vs. Bills pretty much for the division, Raw still managed to just about double up Dynamite in overall viewers and still even edged them out in the demo, even with going up against the NFL game which always dominates the demo.


----------



## KingofKings1524

The Legit DMD said:


> *I meant since the FOX premiere with The Rock. They aren't getting rid of her. She's their biggest star and they know it.*


Bigger than Roman and Brock combined!!! MEGA DRAW.


----------



## Randy Lahey

SPCDRI said:


> context time, cuz context matters...
> 
> RAW December 9, 2019
> Hour One- 2.255m
> Hour Two-2.201m
> Hour Three-1.995m
> Overall-2.104m (18-49-0.68)
> 
> RAW December 7th, 2020;
> Hour One - 1.852m
> Hour Two - 1.775m
> Hour Three - 1.583m
> Overall - 1.737m (18-49 - 0.51)
> 
> RAW December 6th ,2021;
> Hour One - 1.669m
> Hour Two - 1.636m
> Hour Three - 1.494m
> Overall - 1.600m (18-49 - 0.35)


Excellent perspective. All AEW has to do is maintain their demos bc Raw is still in a free fall with no signs of the bottom being in.

Once AEW is on TBS and Dynamite is on in prime time on the West Coast, I expect Dynamite to be back in the 0.38-0.48 range. Raw will keep dropping below it.


----------



## Kishido

Pathetic numbers. But well shoe wasn't good and Big E isn't world title material in my eyes


----------



## Kentucky34

Big E as champion hasn't worked. 

The undercard are stopping viewers from tuning out.


----------



## Zappers

Wow, just read the last several pages.

All of this back and forth about the ratings. Never had this problem when Alexa Bliss was the women's champ. Chick was pulling in 3+'s. Alexa did her part for the women leading that division.(that section of the show each week) ....Then Ronda and Becky and Charlotte screwed that all up.(when was the last time they brought in 3+?)


----------



## .christopher.

SPCDRI said:


> Edge shows up, 3 million a year to wrestle guys he has already wrestled but they are both 10 years older, viewership in the toilet and their lowest demo ever. Edge's contract stinks and his programs suck.


Edge has never been a draw, tbf. He's a decent talent who was overpushed because he's big and WWE were lacking stars in the mid 00s. Back when NXT and AEW were going head-to-head, the WWE promoted Edge for a NXT show and they lost viewers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

1.574M viewers and .39 demo. Only the NFL beat it...as usual.


----------



## Kentucky34

Audience retention and still doing better numbers than before the draft.


----------



## Erik.

Lower ratings than last week, even though last week was their lowest ever demo. Yet up on last year. 

If ever ratings talk was pointless and absolutely useless information to people outside of the industry, that proves it. 

It's somewhat nice to see wrestling shows still be one of the most watched in its timeslot


----------



## ThirdMan

Three more Monday Night Football episodes, and then we'll see where the show stands on January 10th, as they build to the Royal Rumble match. Next week will probably be pretty low, and the December 27th episode may be _slightly _higher, if they stack it leading into Day 1 (because there's no go-home SD show on the 31st).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Becky and Seth are keeping those ratings at steady all time lows. Love to see it.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470867537734868994*


----------



## SPCDRI

Up about 10 percent in the demo from last week because the sports competition wasn't as hot with young people but that's lower viewership for every hour compared to last week and last week was a bottom 10 RAW of all time or close to it in viewership, I believe. That's two shows in a row with an hour in the 1.4 million viewer range. They've gone to 1.3s like 2 or 3 times for hour 3 I think with contract signings and women's matches, but a Big E/Bobby Lashley hardcore main event for a title shot at a PPV with Rollins and Owens involved doing that? Good night, Irene!


----------



## Not Lying

That show was built on Bobby Lashley, he was all over the show with 3 matches and multiple segments. It's one of those guys that people on this forum enjoy, but even with MVP he doesn't draw viewers in. He never drew a dime, not in 2007 when they gave a ridiculous superman push in ECW, and certainly not the past year and that's with MVP.
I enjoy his work too, but he just comes off boring and don't see him getting over.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Becky and Seth are keeping those ratings at steady all time lows. Love to see it.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470867537734868994*


1. Your dude took a hilariously massive loss to the Bunny recently.

2. Any rational individual on here would know that nobody is actually "tanking" the ratings

3. Get a clue. You're being ignorant again.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *Becky and Seth are keeping those ratings at steady all time lows. Love to see it.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470867537734868994*


Look at the chart.

The numbers are still higher than they were in the weeks before the draft.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Look at the chart.
> 
> The numbers are still higher than they were in the weeks before the draft.


*lol







*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Roman Reigns fans are one to talk shit when SD just did a higher number without him than they did with him.

A million WM main events AND been Champion over a year, and the show is fucking better off without him.

What a fucking loser.


----------



## Spartan117

The Definition of Technician said:


> That show was built on Bobby Lashley, he was all over the show with 3 matches and multiple segments. It's one of those guys that people on this forum enjoy, but even with MVP he doesn't draw viewers in. He never drew a dime, not in 2007 when they gave a ridiculous superman push in ECW, and certainly not the past year and that's with MVP.
> I enjoy his work too, but he just comes off boring and don't see him getting over.


The show doesn't decrease in ratings one week because it was built around one person. Bobby Lashley showed up at the end of last week's Raw in an angle that has been going for weeks now. He was also WWE champion since February so we have plenty of data to look at when the show was built around him. This has nothing to do with him. You could predict this number regardless of him, especially when last week's number was poor.

You may get an increase on a particular week (like a few weeks ago with Vince McMahon hype), but a show's ratings decline doesn't work like that. Raw has been on a decline for a while now and it seems to have accelerated after the draft. They had an average viewership of 1.81 million viewers prior to the draft between July-September (the show's main focus was Lashley during this time but I believe Goldberg helped ratings here). Since October, their average viewership is at 1.6 million viewers. You can see the viewership immediately plummet in October and they haven't recovered since then. The show's focus since October has been Big E, Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, and Kevin Owens. They've been involved in the main angles on the show.

It's just the show has no stars and nothing interesting going on.

The best bet WWE has is January to see if they can get a rebound into Wrestlemania season. If they're hovering 1.5-1.6 million now, they should automatically get a rebound bump to 1.7-1.8 million or thereabouts in January regardless. Now if they don't get that, and stick to 1.5-1.6 million, they should start being very worried because it means the ratings after Wrestlemania are going to be really bad. They could also try to do a title change at Day 1 for the unpredictability bump, but the reality is it'd be pointless since January will immediately give a bump anyway (or it should). It'd be better for them to save a theoretical title change for Royal Rumble because you could try to ignite interest heading into the RTWM. Not that I think anything is going to work for Raw since it's just a dead show with boring or misused talent. They need a big angle or something.



Showstopper said:


> Roman Reigns fans are one to talk shit when SD just did a higher number without him than they did with him.
> 
> A million WM main events AND been Champion over a year, and the show is fucking better off without him.
> 
> What a fucking loser.


Ratings are largely based on the main angles for the show and who is advertised. Smackdown's main angle since last year has been Roman Reigns, and the main advertisement for last week's Smackdown was Brock and Reigns confrontation despite them revealing Reigns is not on the show the night of. The ratings are going to be due to that regardless of him not being on the show.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kentucky34 said:


> Look at the chart.
> 
> The numbers are still higher than they were in the weeks before the draft.


It burns their ass that everyone shits on SD every week now and that people would rather watch the show WITHOUT Reigns than WITH him, as the rating showed this week.


----------



## Cosmo77

you cannot convince me that their are 1.5 mil watching this show,


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> *Roman Reigns fans are one to talk shit when SD just did a higher number without him than they did with him.*
> 
> A million WM main events AND been Champion over a year, and the show is fucking better off without him.
> 
> What a fucking loser.


It's at least the 2nd time in a row too.


----------



## ShadowCounter

DammitChrist said:


> 1. Your dude took a hilariously massive loss *to the Bunny* recently.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Another garbage number for RAW. Also where's this narrative that people are defending SmackDown? Nobody fucking likes SmackDown, it's garbage too, RAW is just worse though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I like how people say a number is garbage while it finishes in 2nd on all of cable only behind the NFL.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Another garbage number for RAW. Also where's this narrative that people are defending SmackDown? Nobody fucking likes SmackDown, it's garbage too, RAW is just worse though.


Nah, Smackdown is by FAR the worse show to watch.

Sami Zayn is pretty much carrying Smackdown nowadays, and even he's getting destroyed for it in the process too.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Showstopper said:


> It burns their ass that everyone shits on SD every week now and that people would rather watch the show WITHOUT Reigns than WITH him, as the rating showed this week.


Hold up, people would rather watch RAW but RAW gets less viewers? Doesn't make too much sense buddy. And before you go saying "SD is in more homes!" You're right, but that never stopped RAW from getting 2.5 million for years, what's the reason now they can barely get 1.5?


----------



## ShadowCounter

Cosmo77 said:


> you cannot convince me that their are 1.5 mil watching this show,


A lot of old folks watching the lead in, usually a procedural drama like NCIS or Chicago, and falling asleep after cause they're too tired to get up and change the channel. If ever they learn how to work the remote control RAW is doomed.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Hold up, people would rather watch RAW but RAW gets less viewers? Doesn't make too much sense buddy. And before you go saying "SD is in more homes!" You're right, but that never stopped RAW from getting 2.5 million for years, what's the reason now they can barely get 1.5?


You misunderstood. "The show without him" was SD last week which Reigns wasn't on, and did a better number than the previous week.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Smackdown is by FAR the worse show to watch.
> 
> Sami Zayn is pretty much carrying Smackdown nowadays, and even he's getting destroyed for it in the process too.


Dude in all honestly they're both equally garbage, RAW has no good storylines, SD has no good storylines. Reigns and Lesnar are the only things worth watching on the main roster and they're wasting time by having Lesnar interact with Zayn.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Showstopper said:


> You misunderstood. "The show without him" was SD last week which Reigns wasn't on, and did a better number than the previous week.


I put that down to Lesnar more than anything, but even so, does it really matter?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I put that down to Lesnar more than anything, but even so, does it really matter?


When people try to claim certain folks are draws and it's proven that they're not, it's fun to show that they're wrong.

No one is making you read these posts/threads.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> I like how people say a number is garbage while it finishes in 2nd on all of cable only behind the NFL.


In the demos. Those don't count. Or do they again? I can't keep up.

Oh, right. This is the WWE forums...they count here. It's the AEW forums where demos don't matter....especially when they got higher than a certain 50 year old company.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Dude in all honestly they're both equally garbage, RAW has no good storylines, SD has no good storylines. *Reigns* and Lesnar are the only things worth watching on the main roster and they're wasting time by having Lesnar interact with Zayn.


I KINDA get it with Brock Lesnar since he's been somewhat interesting lately as a babyface, but HOW in the heck is the current Universal Champion "worth watching" when he's been doing the same nonsense over the past 16 months?

That's without even mentioning the rest of the other (entertaining) talents on the main roster who are actually worth watching.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Showstopper said:


> When people try to claim certain folks are draws and it's proven that they're not, it's fun to show that they're wrong.
> 
> No one is making you read these posts/threads.


Nah these threads are my guilty pleasure dude, I love watching people argue over who's a draw when nobody is a draw in professional wrestling anymore. So much animosity over a TV show.


----------



## ShadowCounter

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Hold up, people would rather watch RAW but RAW gets less viewers? Doesn't make too much sense buddy. And before you go saying "SD is in more homes!" You're right, but that never stopped RAW from getting 2.5 million for years, what's the reason now they can barely get 1.5?


Cord cutting, exasperation with a shitty product, lazy booking, firing a ton of their talent....take your pick.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> I KINDA get it with Brock Lesnar since he's been somewhat interesting lately as a babyface, but HOW in the heck is the current Universal Champion "worth watching" when he's been doing the same nonsense over the past 16 months?
> 
> That's without even mentioning the rest of the other (entertaining) talents on the main roster who are actually worth watching.


Because I can at least take him seriously as a wrestler? I can't take Zayn or Ricochet seriously.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Nah these threads are my guilty pleasure dude, I love watching *people argue over who's a draw when nobody is a draw in professional wrestling anymore. So much animosity over a TV show.*


Believe it or not, we're actually both on the same page here


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

ShadowCounter said:


> In the demos. Those don't count. Or do they again? I can't keep up.
> 
> Oh, right. This is the WWE forums...they count here. It's the AEW forums where demos don't matter....especially when they got higher than a certain 50 year old company.


Demos don't matter in either company dude, people are just trying to cope with the fact that 1.5 for RAW is inexcusable.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Demos don't matter in either company dude, people are just trying to cope with the fact that 1.5 for RAW is inexcusable.


Nah, sorry, you already lost me here, dude.

The demographic numbers also matter


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> In the demos. Those don't count. Or do they again? I can't keep up.
> 
> Oh, right. This is the WWE forums...they count here. It's the AEW forums where demos don't matter....especially when they got higher than a certain 50 year old company.


Yep. Sometimes demo matters, sometimes it doesn't. Gotta love the logic.


----------



## ShadowCounter

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Demos don't matter in either company dude, people are just trying to cope with the fact that 1.5 for RAW is inexcusable.


Well, they are what has secured those multi million dollar tv contracts which are keeping WWE afloat. So they matter.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Fans probably like the storyline between Sami and Brock. Sami has been pushed aside for years to the likes of Kevin Owens, Daniel Bryan, Big E. His interaction with Heyman was interesting. There's definitely an opportunity to turn Sami back to a face.

The rating being higher without Reigns is definitely interesting. If this week's number is lower than 2m that's definitely not a good sign.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, sorry, you already lost me here, dude.
> 
> The demographic numbers also matter


They matter to you, not to everyone though. I don't care about the type of person watching the show, I care about how many as a whole are watching it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Hold up, people would rather watch RAW but RAW gets less viewers? Doesn't make too much sense buddy. And before you go saying "SD is in more homes!" You're right, but that never stopped RAW from getting 2.5 million for years, what's the reason now they can barely get 1.5?


* I don't know man. But what I do know, is that I distinctly remember that guy and many others telling everyone and their mom that RAW won the draft and Becky is the biggest star in the women's division. All I see is Becky creating new record lows while Sasha’s out here being the real mainstream star of WWE. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Imagine being butt-hurt all because people said they like the new Raw roster post-draft. Heaven forbid people like something that that guy doesn't like and he's been throwing a couple month temper tantrum because of it.

Hilarious.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SD doing better without Reigns this past week was just the icing on the cake. I don't even care, but if it's gonna throw someone into a tizzy who does nothing but antagonize in here; good.

Talk about karma.

What goes around, comes around. Karma's a bitch.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Raw this week just barely beat last year despite the fact that last year was in the Thunderdome. I know that WWE ratings have been declining for years now, but you'd think they'd be doing better with the return to touring.

They should put the women's title back on Asuka when she comes back. She was doing better numbers than Becky.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> * I don't know man. But what I do know, is that I distinctly rremember that guy and many others telling everyone and their mom that RAW won the draft and Becky is the biggest star in the women's division. All I see is Becky creating new record lows while Sasha’s out here being the real mainstream star of WWE. *


If people like the new RAW roster, by all means enjoy it. But it's not having a positive impact on the ratings. They're still as bad as ever.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I still think that really calling anybody a big draw in WWE is kinda pointless given WWE is presented to be the draw itself. Most increases aren't really huge or anything, they fluctuate by a couple tens of thousands here and there.

Anyway, I liked the idea of Lashley getting into the four way, but the wacky dumb way they did it is classic WWE. And while I think the Becky/Liv feud is real fun, Becky as a heel should be ended sooner than later. It didn't make sense initially, still doesn't. 

The ratings aren't any good though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If people like the new RAW roster, by all means enjoy it. But it's not having a positive impact on the ratings. They're still as bad as ever.


*Anyone who actually pays attention to trends and spikes knows Becky and Seth don't move the ratings in a positive direction, but hey, some people have to learn the hard way and embarrass themselves after 3+ months of spewing utter nonsense.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If people like the new RAW roster, by all means enjoy it. But it's not having a positive impact on the ratings. They're still as bad as ever.


Someone on here used to claim Roman Reigns is a super big MAINSTEAM DRAW.

Well, that was proven completely incorrect once again just this week.

But hey, at least they have Sasha and her extra 7 fans she brings in her segments.

Karma is a beautiful, beautiful bitch.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> * I don't know man. But what I do know, is that I distinctly remember that guy and many others telling everyone and their mom that RAW won the draft and Becky is the biggest star in the women's division. All I see is Becky creating new record lows while Sasha’s out here being the real mainstream star of WWE. *


Raw DOES have the better roster, and Becky Lynch IS the biggest female star in the company atm.

I’m not surprised that this guy is clueless regarding who’s “tanking” the ratings (which is already an absurd claim), but why are you buying into his nonsense, @sara sad?

You don’t seriously believe that Sasha Banks is ACTUALLY a big TV draw, right?

I don’t even think that way about any of my top favorites.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Imagine being butt-hurt all because people said they like the new Raw roster post-draft. *Heaven forbid people like something that that guy doesn't like* and he's been throwing a couple month temper tantrum because of it.
> 
> Hilarious.


I suppose that explains the resentment for Indy NXT over the past year (but yet silence for NXT 2.0’s ratings being WORSE with less wrestling pus less workrate guys being showcased) or the opposition for the other company (by gloating/celebrating whenever something negative happens in AEW).

Raw gets more praise and more activity in the discussion thread than Smackdown lately too; so you’re probably right here 




TheGunnShow said:


> Raw this week just barely beat last year despite the fact that last year was in the Thunderdome. I know that WWE ratings have been declining for years now, but you'd think they'd be doing better with the return to touring.
> 
> They should put the women's title back on Asuka when she comes back. She was doing better numbers than Becky.


Asuka will NOT save the ratings either. Let it go now.


----------



## ClintDagger

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If the demo is important to you that's fine, but it's not to me. I don't care about the type of people watching the show or the age bracket or whatever, I just care about the total amount watching, and RAW ain't got many watching.


Wrestling has bottom of the barrel demographics, which is why they get bottom of the barrel advertisers. The fact so many wrestling fans still don’t realize this is truly sad.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

ClintDagger said:


> *Wrestling has bottom of the barrel demographics, which is why they get bottom of the barrel advertisers.* The fact so many wrestling fans still don’t realize this is truly sad.


Has this always been the case -- even during the boom period from 1998-2000?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

ClintDagger said:


> Wrestling has bottom of the barrel demographics, which is why they get bottom of the barrel advertisers. The fact so many wrestling fans still don’t realize this is truly sad.


You just have to look at wrestling fans, especially smarks and think, are these really the types of people you want to cater to?


----------



## Klitschko

Showstopper said:


> Roman Reigns fans are one to talk shit when SD just did a higher number without him than they did with him.
> 
> A million WM main events AND been Champion over a year, and the show is fucking better off without him.
> 
> What a fucking loser.


People were just hoping he would show up sometime throughout the show so the ratings jumped up with the anticipation of our tribal chief.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I'm seeing some self-hate posts these last few posts (not you @Klitschko). Sad to see. Love yourself ladies and gentlemen. Love yourself. You'll never find someone who loves you if you can't love yourself first. Alittle free advice for my fellow wrestling fans (well, at least the ones who seemingly hate themselves).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* Becky and Seth can't get people to watch the show, nor come to the arena. Sasha and Roman cannot relate.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471679462680977409

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472051603024797696*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> * Becky and Seth can't get people to watch the show, nor come to the arena. Sasha and Roman cannot relate.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471679462680977409
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472051603024797696*


Becky Lynch and Seth Rollins can't relate to losing here to the Bunny. That's for sure.

Quit trying to start fan wars in the ratings threads. It's pretty obvious what you're doing here (especially since this place was inactive for 6 days).


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> * Becky and Seth can't get people to watch the show, nor come to the arena. Sasha and Roman cannot relate.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471679462680977409
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472051603024797696*


Meh, different towns and arenas.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Meh, different towns and arenas.


*Man I heard AEW owned Illinois though. Punk really just let the Tribal Chief move the needle on his front porch.*


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *Man I heard AEW owned Illinois though. Punk really just let the Tribal Chief move the needle on his front porch.*


You are really boring.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Becky Lynch and Seth Rollins can't relate to losing here to the Bunny. That's for sure.
> 
> Quit trying to start fan wars in the ratings threads. It's pretty obvious what you're doing here (especially since this place was inactive for 6 days).


SD drawing less on FOX than Jinder did on cable.  
I'm loving the spazzing while everyone else just sits back and laughs.

Can't relate to the insecurity.


----------



## Seafort

The Legit DMD said:


> * Becky and Seth can't get people to watch the show, nor come to the arena. Sasha and Roman cannot relate.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471679462680977409
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472051603024797696*


Perhaps Raw needs to return to the Mid-Hudson Civic Center:


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seafort said:


> Perhaps Raw needs to return to the Mid-Hudson Civic Center:
> 
> View attachment 113556


*They need to do smaller arenas for sure. They don't have the star power to fill stadiums anymore. *


----------



## DaSlacker

They've been choking the life out of the Raw brand for too long with that 3 hour running length. Plus Reigns is so far above anybody else now that fans will follow whatever show he is on as THE show to go to. Women's wrestling as a serious and equal thing is still pretty new for WWE. 

They need to take a cut in revenue and drop Raw back to two hours. Or drop Main Event, 205 and NXT on USA - place the full force of the creative team on making Raw more important. They want it all to maximise profits, but the audience just isn't there for all that. 

They also need a top name on Raw. Big E was stuck in midcard for years and doesn't have the presence or charisma to carry it. Lashley has the presence but lack the promo skills and is up there in age. Owens, Rollins aren't fresh and have too much of an indie vibe. Riddle is a possibility. 

Personally I'd fast track Bron Breakker to the top over a 12 month period. Give him back his Steiner name and use Breakker as the nickname. Culminating with him winning the title at WrestleMania 39. Put him over Edge and have him retire Goldberg. 

In the meantime strap a rocket to Riddle and Omos.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> They've been choking the life out of the Raw brand for too long with that 3 hour running length. Plus Reigns is so far above anybody else now that fans will follow whatever show he is on as THE show to go to. Women's wrestling as a serious and equal thing is still pretty new for WWE.
> 
> They need to take a cut in revenue and drop Raw back to two hours. Or drop Main Event, 205 and NXT on USA - place the full force of the creative team on making Raw more important. They want it all to maximise profits, but the audience just isn't there for all that.
> 
> They also need a top name on Raw. Big E was stuck in midcard for years and doesn't have the presence or charisma to carry it. Lashley has the presence but lack the promo skills and is up there in age. Owens, Rollins aren't fresh and have too much of an indie vibe. Riddle is a possibility.
> 
> Personally I'd fast track Bron Breakker to the top over a 12 month period. Give him back his Steiner name and use Breakker as the nickname. Culminating with him winning the title at WrestleMania 39. Put him over Edge and have him retire Goldberg.
> 
> In the meantime strap a rocket to Riddle and Omos.


Those are the plans (Riddle and Steiner).

But they are not taking a cut in pay. If USA offered an additional $50M per year for a fourth and fifth hour of RAW, they would gladly do it.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473400592454270978

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473400592454270978
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*ANOTHER RECORD LOW FOR MEGA DRAW BECKY LYNCH AND HER HUSBAND!!!! WOOOOO!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I wonder if they take the title off of Big E at this point. Officially the lowest drawing World Champion of all time, with Lashley at #2. The second or third lowest viewership of all time according to the WON Board.


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if they take the title off of Big E at this point. Officially the lowest drawing World Champion of all time, with Lashley at #2.


It wouldn't matter right now. Lashley, Seth, and KO are arguably more featured on the show than Big E has been, and screen-time has more of an effect on viewership than who's holding the prop belt. They're just gonna have to ride it through to the end of the NFL regular season, and see where they stand.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Third lowest in Viewers. Second lowest in Demo.


----------



## postmoderno

Crazy that their rating is so unimpressive given the 5 people who post on the weekly Raw thread insist that the show is really good now.


----------



## TheGunnShow

All 3 hours of Raw did less viewers than Holiday Baking Challenge on Food Network.

I know WWE ratings have been going down for years and cord cutting is a thing but the fact they can't even beat Thunderdome shows is pretty bad. Asuka did better numbers as champ than Becky.


----------



## ThirdMan

It's too bad because, again, the show was far more watchable than last Friday's SD. Waaaaay better wrestling, and no Happy Corbin or Jinder and Shanky to be found.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Beat everything in the demo except the NFL. I wonder how important the demo is to WWE:


----------



## ThirdMan

TheGunnShow said:


> All 3 hours of Raw did less viewers than Holiday Baking Challenge on Food Network.
> 
> I know WWE ratings have been going down for years and cord cutting is a thing but the fact they can't even beat Thunderdome shows is pretty bad. Asuka did better numbers as champ than Becky.


Dude, stop it. No individual performer is gonna drastically affect the ratings of a three-hour show. Stop putting unnecessary heat on Asuka.


----------



## SPCDRI

That is a solid month of declining total viewership with multiple hours below .4 in demo. The Big E and Becky title runs are total flops.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TheGunnShow said:


> All 3 hours of Raw did less viewers than Holiday Baking Challenge on Food Network.
> 
> I know WWE ratings have been going down for years and cord cutting is a thing but the fact they can't even beat Thunderdome shows is pretty bad. Asuka did better numbers as champ than Becky.


*And they did nothing with Asuka as champ after Sasha and Bayley dropped the tag titles. That says a lot.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *ANOTHER RECORD LOW FOR MEGA DRAW BECKY LYNCH AND HER HUSBAND!!!! WOOOOO!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣*


1. You're instigating possible fan wars again with your misleading, poor takes.

2. Your mediocre favorite still lost to the Bunny recently, which none of the 4 men in last night's main event can relate to here.

3. You're obviously embarrassed by #2, and you're projecting here since you want to be petty.


----------



## ThirdMan

Stop feeding the troll, folks.


----------



## SPCDRI

I apologize for saying RAW has declined in total viewership for 4 weeks in a row. That was inaccurate.
ITS ACTUALLY 5 WEEKS


----------



## ThirdMan

BTW, folks, the record-low rating in 2020 (December 14th) was basically the same time-period last year, and it did bounce back in January. So let's just wait and see how it shakes out once the NFL season is over.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

SPCDRI said:


> I apologize for saying RAW has declined in total viewership for 4 weeks in a row. That was inaccurate.
> ITS ACTUALLY 5 WEEKS


I miss your posts, man. You should post more often. Hope all is well.


----------



## DammitChrist

postmoderno said:


> Crazy that their rating is so unimpressive given the 5 people who post on the weekly Raw thread insist that the show is really good now.


It's crazy how Smackdown is supposedly this "awesome wrestling show" according to 5 individuals given how dead its discussion threads typically are per week.


----------



## justin waynes

SPCDRI said:


> That is a solid month of declining total viewership with multiple hours below .4 in demo. The Big E and Becky title runs are total flops.


Was Becky even on the show?why do kids think a fake title on anyone will draw ratings?


----------



## SPCDRI

You can't even quantify how cold American wrestling is based on tv ratings and board activity without losing your mind. Absolutely nothing RAWs in September would crash the board and get thousands of replies. TNA was talked about as much as RAW, Smackdown, Dynamite and NXT 2.0 put together now. 
There's no metric where WWE isn't in the toilet now and its had a huge negative effect on the whole American industry.


----------



## Butt Soup

By the end of 2023 we will be seeing people saying "Hell Yeah!!!" and posting celebratory gifs because the show managed to keep a 1,000,000/1,100,000 viewership.


----------



## DammitChrist

Butt Soup said:


> By the end of 2023 we will be seeing people saying "Hell Yeah!!!" and posting celebratory gifs because the show managed to keep a 1,000,000/1,100,000 viewership.


Dude, that's already happening with Smackdown now even though they've consistently done better numbers in the past


----------



## Cosmo77

You cant spin these numbers all you want,but a .3 in the demo? yikes


----------



## ThirdMan

The worst time for _anyone_ to be champion on RAW is in the fall, when it's going head-to-head with Monday Night Football. Especially in November and early-to-mid December, when the regular-season games have higher stakes. Just be glad if your favourite wrestler isn't champion during this period, so other people don't try to draw misguided conclusions about their supposed level of popularity/drawing power.


----------



## postmoderno

DammitChrist said:


> It's crazy how Smackdown is supposedly this "awesome wrestling show" according to 5 individuals given how dead its discussion threads typically are per week.


What does smackdown sucking have to do with raw sucking?

Or did you confuse me with one of those weirdos who thinks one or the other program is far superior just because their favorite wrassler is on it?


----------



## Spartan117

They should let Big E keep the title until Royal Rumble. Ratings should bounce back on January 3rd anyway, so making him drop the title there is pointless. It'll just make him look bad when people mistake the recovery for him dropping the title and leave him in limbo. Let him keep it until Royal Rumble and drop it in a singles match to either Rollins, Owens, or Styles. Lashley seems to be turning face so I'm guessing he won't be an option, but you have both Lashley and now Styles as potential winners for the Rumble Maybe even Owens.

I think they're doomed regardless from a ratings point of view, but they need to give Big E a good send off so he doesn't become a jabroni in the midcard after. You need to keep him looking good so he can remain as a main event kind of star for the long-term. They can give him a Goldberg feud after dropping the title at Royal Rumble to try and heat him up again. It's a good transition point for him since it's pretty much straight into Wrestlemania after Royal Rumble.


----------



## Randy Lahey

All AEW needs to do is to stay the course in the 0.30-0.40 range. Raw will be below it consistently soon enough. Perhaps as soon as the switch to TBS and West Coast getting live.

Raw loses a portion of people during NFL season that never come back


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw finished second all night on cable in terms of demo only behind the NFL. It's not the demo that's the issue. They've been destroying AEW for months and months now.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Raw finished second all night on cable in terms of demo only behind the NFL. It's not the demo that's the issue. They've been destroying AEW for months and months now.


The demo is the only thing that matters.TV execs don’t care about the amount of old people watching Raw. They do care about demo.

USA paying Raw 5x what TNT pays for Dynanite to get similar demo numbers is a huge problem for WWE


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> The demo is the only thing that matters.TV execs don’t care about the amount of old people watching Raw. They do care about demo.
> 
> USA paying Raw 5x what TNT pays for Dynanite to get similar demo numbers is a huge problem for WWE


They're paying Raw extra because they provide an extra hour of content that no other wrestling program does and because they provide a higher rating than anything else USA would air in that timeslot, both overall viewers and Demo.

It's why they will get another huge TV contract once this one expires. You can set your clock to it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> They're paying Raw extra because they provide an extra hour of content that no other wrestling program does and because they provide a higher rating than anything else USA would air in that timeslot, both overall viewers and Demo.
> 
> It's why they will get another huge TV contract once this one expires. You can set your clock to it.


If USA could pay Dynamite less to get the same or better demos, why wouldn’t they? You act like USA has no other alternative to go for programming. They do. Theres AEW if they want wrestling. USA is also moving to an all sports format, so if they were to land any other live sports programming like college basketball they’d take that. They didn’t get the NHL so they are most likely shopping for other live sports progranming.


USA made their current deal with WWE back when WWE was doing 0.85 to 1.1 in the demos. They are now in thr 0.30 - 0.40 range. If you don’t think that is a huge problem, especially when there’s a valid alternative now to bargain against (there wasn’t back in 2017) then you don’t understand business.

USA doesn’t pay to be “2nd to other live sports programming”. They pay to get a certain number


----------



## DupreeAreBetterThanOne

What does RAW usually add in Live+3 and/or Live+7 ratings?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> If USA could pay Dynamite less to get the same or better demos, why wouldn’t they? You act like USA has no other alternative to go for programming. They do. Theres AEW if they want wrestling. USA is also moving to an all sports format, so if they were to land any other live sports programming like college basketball they’d take that. They didn’t get the NHL so they are most likely shopping for other live sports progranming.
> 
> 
> USA made their current deal with WWE back when WWE was doing 0.85 to 1.1 in the demos. They are now in thr 0.30 - 0.40 range. If you don’t think that is a huge problem, especially when there’s a valid alternative now to bargain against (there wasn’t back in 2017) then you don’t understand business.
> 
> USA doesn’t pay to be “2nd to other live sports programming”. They pay to get a certain number


Everyone said this same nonsense right before they negotiated their current contract. People said they wouldn't get a new contract, or one that is for alot less money. In reality, of course, they broke their record and got, and what is still is, the highest contract a wrestling program has ever gotten at $1.5 billion dollars. Those numbers were record lows back then, too. They still finish second in the all important demo in all of cable only behind the NFL.

I was one of those idiots that thought they'd either get no contract or a much reduced one, and the exact opposite happened. If you wanna bet against it, go for it. But I'm not.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RAW continues to fall every single week. How anyone can look at their viewership and think it's good is insane. They deserve about 800,000 total. 

"But mah demo!!!! They were only behind the NFL!!!"

Nobody gives a fuck about the demo. Why do I care about a certain type of person tuning in? I care about how many people are watching overall, and there aren't many watching.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> RAW continues to fall every single week. How anyone can look at their viewership and think it's good is insane. They deserve about 800,000 total.
> 
> "But mah demo!!!! They were only behind the NFL!!!"
> 
> Nobody gives a fuck about the demo. Why do I care about a certain type of person tuning in? I care about how many people are watching overall, and there aren't many watching.


1. Raw deserves around 2 million viewers atm since the show has actually been fairly solid to watch lately.

2. The demographic numbers DO matter since they’re a big reason why both WWE and AEW struck good TV deals recently due to their good numbers.

3. Nobody cares if you’re indifferent to the demographic numbers. They’ll continue to be talked about in these rating threads, and thankfully (rational) posters will continue discussing them on here in spite of the vocal bunch who irrationally hate their existence.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> 1. Raw deserves around 2 million viewers atm since the show has actually been fairly solid to watch lately.
> 
> 2. The demographic numbers DO matter since they’re a big reason why both WWE and AEW struck good TV deals recently due to their good numbers.
> 
> 3. Nobody cares if you’re indifferent to the demographic numbers. They’ll continue to be talked about in these rating threads, and thankfully (rational) posters will continue discussing them on here in spite of the vocal bunch who irrationally hate their existence.


Raw doesn't deserve anything right now, it's an unwatchable dumpster fire right now. And that's great if the demographics to you personally, that's all good, they don't matter to me. I don't hate their existence at all don't be a little drama queen, I just think it's stupid that they care about catering to such a small sub group of people, cater to your whole audience.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Smackdown doesn't deserve anything right now, it's an unwatchable dumpster fire right now. And that's great if the demographics to you personally, that's all good, they don't matter to me. I don't hate their existence at all don't be a little drama queen, I just think it's stupid that they care about catering to such a small sub group of people, cater to your whole audience.


I fixed that 1st sentence for you, dude


----------



## Randy Lahey

Brandon Thuston already did a demo comparison of reruns of 20 year old Law and Order episodes doing better numbers than NXT. If we can all agree NXT is in cancellation-ville doing 0.11 - 0.14, then how could you not agree that Raw at the very least is in major danger with 0.30 - 0.40 given what USA pays for it? Maybe not of getting cancelled but getting a far smaller deal 

And it’s not like Raw hasn’t bottomed out yet. It’d be one thing if USA thought this was as low as Raw could go, but it will go further and further down if you look at the graph from 2014 onward.


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> 1. Raw deserves around 2 million viewers atm since the show has actually been fairly solid to watch lately.
> 
> 2. The demographic numbers DO matter since they’re a big reason why both WWE and AEW struck good TV deals recently due to their good numbers.
> 
> 3. Nobody cares if you’re indifferent to the demographic numbers. They’ll continue to be talked about in these rating threads, and thankfully (rational) posters will continue discussing them on here in spite of the vocal bunch who irrationally hate their existence.


Dude stop with the snide shit. There's no need for the (rational) bit. It's antagonistic. Debate people respectfully.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> Those are the plans (Riddle and Steiner).
> 
> But they are not taking a cut in pay. If USA offered an additional $50M per year for a fourth and fifth hour of RAW, they would gladly do it.


They won't, unfortunately, but gradually too much pointless and monotonous content will cannibalise Raw and the whole WWE imo. Less is more, quality over quantity as they say. Like yourself I think they are prepping for a break up of the company and sale before the decade is out, so maybe they just don't really care. 

Though regardless of the future of WWE, in fairness, I can see the logic in more content. What with on demand supplanting the old school television model. 

As a far of the WWE for 30+ years it's always difficult to realise you care more about what they produce than they do. And think how a few changes could create a neat little product that does justice as a follow up to Hulkamania, Attitude and even New Generation/Ruthless Aggression.


----------



## justin waynes

Showstopper said:


> I wonder if they take the title off of Big E at this point. Officially the lowest drawing World Champion of all time, with Lashley at #2. The second or third lowest viewership of all time according to the WON Board.


There is nothing wrong with big e. Wrestling is no longer s big deal and only smackdown is doing better because it is just 2 hours. Big e is the vest choice to be with the title. The titles don't draw so whats the big deal


----------



## Kishido

Own fault... 3 hours for B show with a forgettable champion


----------



## SPCDRI

Time to provide the context...ITS TIME TO PROVIDE THE CONTEXT...
MUAHHAHAHAHAHA

1. Last year's Thunderdome show where the biggest angle going was the Alexa Bliss/Fiend stuff didn't have a single hour below 1.5 million viewers and was .51 or better in the 18-49 demo.
Hour 1-1.841/.53
Hour 2-1.701/.55
Hour 3-1.531/.51

2. RAW December 23, 2019
Biggest angle was Seth Rollins with AOP and Becky Lynch as champ
Hour 1-1.955/.56
Hour 2-1.864/.53
Hour 3-1.686/.48

3. RAW December 24, 2018, a Christmas Eve episode. Biggest things were a Lashley/Elias Street Fight, Rollins/Corbin main event and a Ronda Rousey/Natalya title match...
Hour 1-1.752/.56
Hour 2-1.755/.55
Hour 3-1.784/.54
This was for its time the least watched RAW ever in total viewership. Every hour is EASILY 100,000 better than the last RAW with 50 percent higher P18-49 demos.

iTS ALL ABOUT THE CONTEXT
AND HOW YOU PROVIDE IT
RAW IS PLUMMETING
NO ONE CAN HIDE IT
A TON OF VIEWERS LEFT
THE ONES WATCHING DERIDE IT
I AM THE CONTEXT
NONE DARE CHIDE IT


----------



## RainmakerV2

Big E sucks. Get it off him asap


----------



## ThirdMan

Big E is a hugely charismatic performer, a solid, physical big-man worker, and a great ambassador for the company. But as with any other performer, haters gonna hate. Putting the title on anyone else on the RAW roster right now would make no significant long-term difference in the ratings.


----------



## InfamousGerald

ThirdMan said:


> Big E is a hugely charismatic performer, a solid, physical big-man worker, and a great ambassador for the company. But as with any other performer, haters gonna hate. Putting the title on anyone else on the RAW roster right now would make no significant long-term difference in the ratings.


He still needs some tweaking to do as a main eventer tho imo, doesn’t feel quite there yet


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *ANOTHER RECORD LOW FOR MEGA DRAW BECKY LYNCH AND HER HUSBAND!!!! WOOOOO!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣*


Neither are the focus of the show. 

Seth isn't even champion.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Neither are the focus of the show.
> 
> Seth isn't even champion.


*What happened to your UPWARD TRENDS Kentucky?! *


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *What happened to your UPWARD TRENDS Kentucky?! *


RAW is still doing the same viewership it was doing before the draft.

It is also the holiday season.

Reigns lost to the Bunny and Smackdown draws more viewers without him.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW is still doing the same viewership it was doing before the draft.
> 
> It is also the holiday season.
> 
> Reigns lost to the Bunny and Smackdown draws more viewers without him.


*Again, your lie was disproven a week ago. They were doing 1.67 to 1.9 million before the draft. If you're going to troll, at least use facts that can't be disputed. You make it too easy:*


The Legit DMD said:


> *lol
> View attachment 113203
> *


*Reigns beat Dynamite with a RERUN of a 40 minute promo:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452988114142650368
and dominated Rampage by 350,000 viewers on a 3rd rate channel with a contract signing:


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450219374577651716
Rollins is creating new record lows every week. There's levels to this shit. *


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *Again, your lie was disproven a week ago. They were doing 1.67 to 1.9 million before the draft. If you're going to troll, at least use facts that can't be disputed. You make it too easy:*


No, an episode of RAW before the draft did between 1.5 and 1.6 million viewers.

That is the same number as RAW is doing now.

Seth isn't champion or the main focus of the show. Not sure why you are picking on him.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> No, an episode of RAW before the draft did between 1.5 and 1.6 million viewers.
> 
> That is the same number as RAW is doing now.
> 
> Seth isn't champion or the main focus of the show. Not sure why you are picking on him.


*One episode compared to 12 that were significantly higher 🤣. Also, I was told that Rollins and Becky were carrying Smackdown and their MASSIVE STAR POWER would easily do the same for RAW. Therefore, they will bear the brunt of RAW's epic failures as the MEGA STAR POWER COUPLE of the show. *


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit DMD said:


> *One episode compared to 12 that were significantly higher 🤣. Also, I was told that Rollins and Becky were carrying Smackdown and their MASSIVE STAR POWER would easily do the same for RAW. Therefore, they will bear the brunt of RAW's epic failures as the MEGA STAR POWER COUPLE of the show. *


Neither are the main focus of the show, 

You can't blame them.


----------



## SPCDRI

Well, the draft show for RAW was October 4, 2021. Was RAW doing better or worse than before the draft?
Its time...its time...ITS CONTEXT TIME.

RAW had 4 shows in September. The 6th, the 13th, the 20th and the 27th. Here's the first show they did against the first Monday Night Football game of the year, September 13, 2021.











Is that higher or lower than the last 3 weeks? Its higher in every metric. How substantial you think the differences are between the post draft shows aginst MNF and the pre-draft MNF shows is up to you, but the numbers are higher. 

Here's the non-debut number, next week, September 20, 2021 and September 27, 2021.





















Yet again, across the board better than the December numbers. If you're mad at this, recognize that you're mad about somebody showing you ratings charts in something called THE RATINGS THREAD. What am I supposed to be showing you here, how to cook lasagna?


----------



## SPCDRI

I don't really feel like burying you guys in a blizzard of giant charts, so here's the first 3 post-draft shows averaged out for viewership and demo...

October 11-1.582/.42
October 18-1.593/.39
October 25-1.658/.47

Every result is comparable or worse than 2 of the 3 pre-draft shows and only the best result from the first 3 post-draft shows is better than the result of the worst of the 3 pre-draft shows, 1.670/.43


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kentucky34 said:


> Neither are the focus of the show.
> 
> Seth isn't even champion.


For years, he used to blame it all on the CHAMPION. Now, magically and convientently, it's not on the Champion. Funny how that works.

Meanwhile, JINDER MAHAL drew more viewers as World Champion on SD when SD was airing on USA. Meanwhile, since SD has debuted on FOX just two short years ago, SD has lost 50% of their audience in that time. Talk about a low.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Big E is a hugely charismatic performer, a solid, physical big-man worker, and a great ambassador for the company. But as with any other performer, haters gonna hate. Putting the title on anyone else on the RAW roster right now would make no significant long-term difference in the ratings.


He's clearly not the answer, either. He is the lowest drawing Champion of all time, followed by Lashley.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

BIG E IS THE LOWEST DRAWING CHAMPION OF ALL TIME. 



I'm just gonna let that sit there on it's own because I know it pisses a certain someone off (not you ThirdMan).


----------



## ClintDagger

The Boy Wonder said:


> Has this always been the case -- even during the boom period from 1998-2000?


Yes, always. Wrestling fans have always been low income and had low education levels. Those two metrics trump the age metric. You essentially have a viewer base that is poor with no future earnings potential. That’s why when you see people peddle the demos for wrestling as a positive you can automatically chalk those people up to not having a clue. Where WWE historically has had huge value for USA is in their negotiations for rights fees. I can explain that further if anyone doesn’t know what that means.


----------



## ClintDagger

Showstopper said:


> Everyone said this same nonsense right before they negotiated their current contract. People said they wouldn't get a new contract, or one that is for alot less money. In reality, of course, they broke their record and got, and what is still is, the highest contract a wrestling program has ever gotten at $1.5 billion dollars. Those numbers were record lows back then, too. They still finish second in the all important demo in all of cable only behind the NFL.
> 
> I was one of those idiots that thought they'd either get no contract or a much reduced one, and the exact opposite happened. If you wanna bet against it, go for it. But I'm not.


Their timing was impeccable. Remember that their numbers were actually trending upward at the time of negotiations and there was a huge battle for content at that time. UFC also got a huge deal because of ESPN+ being desperate to secure content. Also, Fox essentially had no one at the helm at the time and the committee running them saw an easy way to cross off the Friday prime time slot from the list. If you look at what the guy that is running Fox now has to say it seems like he might not have went with WWE if he was in charge at the time.

The deals were negotiated in spring ‘18 and finalized in June ‘18. So I would think negotiations are about to kick off again for the Fall ‘24 contracts. So the question is, can WWE duplicate the ripe conditions in ‘23 that they had in ‘18? And if they can’t, what is the impact? WWE is still big enough that somebody will offer them a deal. I think the question is who, and if it isn’t as lucrative as last time how badly does that hurt the stock?


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> He's clearly not the answer, either. He is the lowest drawing Champion of all time, followed by Lashley.


I'm not into blaming individual performers for the performance of three hour shows. But the emphasis the past few weeks wasn't on Rollins, KO, Becky Lynch, *OR* Big E. The show was centered around Lashley. I mean, he had THREE matches last week, and this past week's show began and ended with his story.

And if folks truly want to draw conclusions on the supposed drawing power of the two most recent WWE champions based on overall RAW ratings during their reigns, I would say it says some pretty discouraging things about a good section of the wrestling fanbase, given what the two performers have in common. And I'm not talking about their big muscles.

(And, BTW, be glad that Rollins wasn't champion during this period, because then you'd have more misguided folks blaming _him_ instead of E for something beyond his control (stiff NFL competition this time of year, etc.).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> I'm not into blaming individual performers for the performance of three hour shows. But the emphasis the past few weeks wasn't on Rollins, KO, Becky Lynch, *OR* Big E. The show was centered around Lashley. I mean, he had THREE matches last week, and this past week's show began and ended with his story.
> 
> And if folks truly want to draw conclusions on the supposed drawing power of the two most recent WWE champions based on overall RAW ratings during their reigns, I would say it says some pretty discouraging things about a good section of the wrestling fanbase, given what the two performers have in common. And I'm not talking about their big muscles.
> 
> (And, BTW, be glad that Rollins wasn't champion during this period, because then you'd have more misguided folks blaming _him_ instead of E for something beyond his control (stiff NFL competition this time of year, etc.).


Agree with alot of what you say here. But it has nothing to do with what you're insinuating in the least. Look at the the history of these threads on here, especially when it comes to the Champion. It is what it is.


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> Agree with alot of what you say here. But it has nothing to do with what you're insinuating in the least. Look at the the history of these threads on here, especially when it comes to the Champion. It is what it is.


I'm not saying that what I'm insinuating applies to anyone in these ratings threads, but possibly the general audience/potential viewership.

But like I said before, we'll see what happens from January 10th on, without the NFL MNF competition, when they begin the build for the Rumble.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> I'm not saying that what I'm insinuating applies to anyone in these ratings threads, but possibly the general audience/potential viewership.
> 
> But like I said before, we'll see what happens from January 10th on, without the NFL MNF competition, when they begin the build for the Rumble.


Raw's ratings have been slowly declining since 2000/2001. I still don't think it's because of that. Also, cable subscribers are down 9% from last year. Eventually, cable will be dead (or near dead) and this stuff will be on a streaming service most likely.


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> Raw's ratings have been slowly declining since 2000/2001. I still don't think it's because of that. Also, cable subscribers are down 9% from last year. Eventually, cable will be dead (or near dead) and this stuff will be on a streaming service most likely.


I don't necessarily think it's because of that either. But if people want to single out those two guys despite ratings steadily trending down since 2001 regardless of the champion, what are _they _suggesting is the solution (other than, as always, better Creative)?

Regardless, I certainly believe the ratings will be up a few 100K in January, and that it would be shortsighted to do a title switch just yet. But Vince gonna Vince, and we'll see where things stand in a few weeks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> I don't necessarily think it's because of that either. But if people want to single out those two guys despite ratings steadily trending down since 2001 regardless of the champion, what are _they _suggesting is the solution (other than, as always, better Creative)?
> 
> Regardless, I certainly believe the ratings will be up a few 100K in January, and that it would be shortsighted to do a title switch just yet. But Vince gonna Vince, and we'll see where things stand in a few weeks.


One good thing is that Raw is beating AEW in the demo this time of year while Raw is going head to head with the NFL, and the NFL is obviously a demo juggernaut. That's something those in charge have to like.


----------



## SPCDRI

Its a 5 year trend. I don't necessarily like to single out specific wrestlers unless they are not just being booked poorly but poorly doing what they're booked to do. Big E Langston and Bobby Lashley are kinda there for me, same with Becky. But its a 5 year trend. The whole shows need to be better for a while to keep from losing people and maybe get a little buzz to get some people to check it out again. 2 or 3 people can't really do that, its gotta be a whole show thing.


----------



## Erik.

SPCDRI said:


> Its a 5 year trend. I don't necessarily like to single out specific wrestlers unless they are not just being booked poorly but poorly doing what they're booked to do. Big E Langston and Bobby Lashley are kinda there for me, same with Becky. But its a 5 year trend. The whole shows need to be better for a while to keep from losing people and maybe get a little buzz to get some people to check it out again. 2 or 3 people can't really do that, its gotta be a whole show thing.


I reckon that checks out with alot of programmes over a 5 year period though.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Always amusing to know that in one month that followed Triple H's RAW rant, RAW lost half a million viewers, and they never came back.

The more you know.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> Always amusing to know that in one month that followed Triple H's RAW rant, RAW lost half a million viewers, and they never came back.
> 
> The more you know.


They're basically doing on cable what SD is doing on national television and finish second place on all of cable head to head with the NFL. That is why they will get yet another contract when this one expires.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I don't think changing who the WWE Champion is will have any impact or increase on the ratings because the writing for RAW and the roster is awful. Doesn't matter if it's Big E, Seth Rollins or Kevin Owens, ratings won't go up. RAW are only going to continue falling. They'll be struggling to do 800k viewers in a few years.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Raw's ratings have been slowly declining since 2000/2001. I still don't think it's because of that. Also, cable subscribers are down 9% from last year. Eventually, cable will be dead (or near dead) and this stuff will be on a streaming service most likely.


Raw started nose diving in 2015 onward


Showstopper said:


> One good thing is that Raw is beating AEW in the demo this time of year while Raw is going head to head with the NFL, and the NFL is obviously a demo juggernaut. That's something those in charge have to like.


Why would it matter? Raw is still losing 20% of their viewers each year regardless of the competition. They lose a ton after WM, then lose more during MNF, and then recover slightly in Jan/Feb and the cycle continues. AEW hasn’t had those lose viewers cycles 


SPCDRI said:


> Its a 5 year trend. I don't necessarily like to single out specific wrestlers unless they are not just being booked poorly but poorly doing what they're booked to do. Big E Langston and Bobby Lashley are kinda there for me, same with Becky. But its a 5 year trend. The whole shows need to be better for a while to keep from losing people and maybe get a little buzz to get some people to check it out again. 2 or 3 people can't really do that, its gotta be a whole show thing.


That’s an excellent summary. Dynamite on TBS should be able to beat them consistently once Raw settles in the low 0.30s


Showstopper said:


> They're basically doing on cable what SD is doing on national television and finish second place on all of cable head to head with the NFL. That is why they will get yet another contract when this one expires.


How low does the demo have to go for you to believe Raw is in trouble?

Or do you think USA will give Raw a deal just because a live wrestling program can beat whatever is on Comedy Central, MTV, VH1, Food Network, TLC, TBS, Hallmark or an assortment of other basic cable channels that don’t have live programming to compete against?

USA could replace Raw with Impact and they’d finish 2nd simply because it’s a live show going against non-live basic shows


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw started nose diving in 2015 onward
> 
> 
> Why would it matter? Raw is still losing 20% of their viewers each year regardless of the competition. They lose a ton after WM, then lose more during MNF, and then recover slightly in Jan/Feb and the cycle continues. AEW hasn’t had those lose viewers cycles


Like I said, Raw's numbers have been declining since the end of the AE. 2002 was a HUGE downturn in business from even 2001 when Austin turned heel. AEW is a 2 hour show that doesn't have anywhere near the competition that is the NFL, and fans throw a party when they barely hit a million viewers.





> How low does the demo have to go for you to believe Raw is in trouble?


When they're not finishing in 2nd in all of cable only behind the NFL.



> Or do you think USA will give Raw a deal just because a live wrestling program can beat whatever is on Comedy Central, MTV, VH1, Food Network, TLC, TBS, Hallmark or an assortment of other basic cable channels that don’t have live programming to compete against?


They already have to the tune of $1.5 billion dollars when Raw was doing all-time lows in that time period. Which is the richest TV Wrestling contract in history.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Like I said, Raw's numbers have been declining since the end of the AE. 2002 was a HUGE downturn in business from even 2001 when Austin turned heel. AEW is a 2 hour show that doesn't have anywhere near the competition that is the NFL, and fans throw a party when they barely hit a million viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When they're not finishing in 2nd in all of cable only behind the NFL.
> 
> 
> 
> They already have to the tune of $1.5 billion dollars when Raw was doing all-time lows in that time period. Which is the richest TV Wrestling contract in history.


Big difference between negotiating TV deals with demos in the 0.90 to 1.10 range vs 0.30 to 0.45.

I really doubt USA ever thought Raw would decline this much when they signed the current deal. 

When you’re doing 1 to 1.15, sure nothing is going to come close to that as a replacement.

But if you are doing 0.30 to 0.40, there’s shows that can either come close to it (such as Dynamite) or there are shows that would do less like 0.20-0.30 but be way cheaper to produce.

Replacing a 1.0-1.15 demo show with a 0.20-0.30 show is a huge downgrade. Therefore Raw was in a very strong bargaining position even with declining ratings in 2017.

Replacing a 0.30 to 0.40 show with that same 0.20-0.30 show isn’t nearly as much. And a much weaker bargaining position


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Big difference between negotiating TV deals with demos in the 0.90 to 1.10 range vs 0.30 to 0.45.
> 
> I really doubt USA ever thought Raw would decline this much when they signed the current deal.
> 
> When you’re doing 1 to 1.15, sure nothing is going to come close to that as a replacement.
> 
> But if you are doing 0.30 to 0.40, there’s shows that can either come close to it (such as Dynamite) or there are shows that would do less like 0.20-0.30 but be way cheaper to produce.
> 
> Replacing a 1.0-1.15 demo show with a 0.20-0.30 show is a huge downgrade. Therefore Raw was in a very strong bargaining position even with declining ratings in 2017.
> 
> Replacing a 0.30 to 0.40 show with that same 0.20-0.30 show isn’t nearly as much. And a much weaker bargaining position


That is exactly how people (including myself) saw it last time, and they/we were wrong. Raw is still very strong _on cable._ That demo is still second the strong majority of weeks on cable. If other multiple shows on cable had surpassed that, then that's different and WWE then might be in trouble. But as long as they're second in the demo(or better, or in that upper echelon) most weeks (like they were then and are now), they're probably going to be just fine. It also helps that USA has nothing of note on their network. No good original programming. No live sports. Nothing.


----------



## DaSlacker

Here's a crazy thought. What if WWE stopped touring WWE Raw and moved it to a studio/free tickets setup in NYC. A ThunderDome with a live audience.

They then start airing it live Monday - Thursday at 8pm or 9pm for one hour each night.

Basically it morphs into a wrestling version of the late night talk shows. Complete with regular live music guests and celebrity appearances, due to the location. Replaces the lowly drawing NXT 2.0 on the Tuesday, eliminates the long running time of these shows but adds another hour to USA's top rated show.

For example, this week would be:
Monday: Balor vs Theory
Tuesday: Mysterios vs Styles & Omos
Wednesday: Orton vs Gable
Thursday: Lashley & E vs Owens & Rollins

Technically they would have more hours to fill. But the new format makes it easier to implement padding. It also creates a rolling setup in which each match has more hype and importance placed on it than just throwing it out at last minute on a Monday night. They could also have specific hosts for each night to move things along (e.g Miz on Mondays, Titus on Tuesdays etc).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476271293590740994

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They're doing the same demo as SD despite competing for the demo head to head vs. the NFL.

LOLFOX.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

So, Raw was:

Female: 18-49 #1
Male: 18-49 #1

In both Female and Male 18-49 for a change (usually #1 in Men):


----------



## The Boy Wonder

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476271293590740994
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The viewership for RAW would probably go up if they featured Miz and Maryse as the top power couple of the show (with the titles).


----------



## ThirdMan

Yeah, as dumb as they can often be, wedding segments _do _seem to do alright with viewers. I was prepared for a record-low overall and demo rating given the Covid circumstances with some of the roster. This definitely performed better than I expected it to. Or perhaps it's The Grayson Waller Effect.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Miz did pretty well earlier in the year for the couple weeks he was champion, so it’s not a huge surprise a hyped up segment with him performed well.

Of course overall Raw is still a disaster, but good on Mis/Maryse/Edge if that final segment actually did really well.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

Miz = ratings


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Below 1.6 million viewers again, garbage.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Finishing #1 in the demo for men AND women, and #2 in overall viewers only behind the NFL is what's going to get WWE another huge contract from NBCU/USA.


----------



## Klitschko

That viewership is horrible. They will be at 1.2 by the end of 2022.


----------



## Erik.

Weekly Raw viewership by year, 2013-21

2013 -- 4,158,000
2014 -- 4,143,000
2015 -- 3,705,000
2016 -- 3,203,000
2017 -- 3,018,000
2018 -- 2,830,000
2019 -- 2,415,000
2022 -- 1,888,000
2021 -- 1,756,000

This year seems to be lowest drop since 13/14.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Klitschko said:


> That viewership is horrible. They will be at 1.2 by the end of 2022.


 #1 in the male and female demo, and number 2 on all of cable only behind the NFL.


----------



## postmoderno

Erik. said:


> Weekly Raw viewership by year, 2013-21
> 
> 2013 -- 4,158,000
> 2014 -- 4,143,000
> 2015 -- 3,705,000
> 2016 -- 3,203,000
> 2017 -- 3,018,000
> 2018 -- 2,830,000
> 2019 -- 2,415,000
> 2022 -- 1,888,000
> 2021 -- 1,756,000
> 
> This year seems to be lowest drop since 13/14.


You mistyped 2020 as 2022 there, but still, yeah. Some people have been predicting it will sink closer to a million for a while now, but it hasn't happened. 

You would think for a show around the holidays, where not all the talent is there and up against the NFL would be a time for a dip if any, but no. 

As little as I and many others care for Raw, you have to admit, they've somehow managed to find 1.5 to 1.6 viewers that will consistently watch no matter what.


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> Weekly Raw viewership by year, 2013-21
> 
> 2013 -- 4,158,000
> 2014 -- 4,143,000
> 2015 -- 3,705,000
> 2016 -- 3,203,000
> 2017 -- 3,018,000
> 2018 -- 2,830,000
> 2019 -- 2,415,000
> 2022 -- 1,888,000
> 2021 -- 1,756,000
> 
> This year seems to be lowest drop since 13/14.


I think they got a boost in 2021 due to the return of fans coinciding with the return of Cena. Then they moved Edge, Lynch, Belair, Rollins, Owens, Mysterio, Big E, Balor and Profits across. Plus it tends to see bigger falls when the show is significantly bad (2015, 2019, 2020). It's been consistently solid for a while now. Boring yet solid. 

Still, WWE Raw is on course to have lost 65% of its live audience in a decade. 2 in every 3 people have stopped watching in the traditional way.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> Weekly Raw viewership by year, 2013-21
> 
> 2013 -- 4,158,000
> 2014 -- 4,143,000
> 2015 -- 3,705,000
> 2016 -- 3,203,000
> 2017 -- 3,018,000
> 2018 -- 2,830,000
> 2019 -- 2,415,000
> 2022 -- 1,888,000
> 2021 -- 1,756,000
> 
> This year seems to be lowest drop since 13/14.


That is an alarming drop for the cable audience YOY since 2013. I know the cable audience is not the entire audience and I know people are cutting cable cords these days but damn.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> That is an alarming drop for the cable audience YOY since 2013. I know the cable audience is not the entire audience and I know people are cutting cable cords these days but damn.


I can provide you with the demo too, if you'd like. From the same period.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> I can provide you with the demo too, if you'd like. From the same period.


Would be nice to see.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> Would be nice to see.


Sorry, only got it from 2017.

Raw 18-49, 2017-2021


Month20172018201920202021January1.151.15.88.74.59February1.131.08.91.74.55March1.131.15.93.68.57April1.231.22.89.58.58May.94.87.78.51.48June1.00.91.72.52.47July1.00.91.84.48.48August1.13.98.84.54.55September.99.90.77.51.48October.95.85.74.53.45November.99.84.70.52.45December.87.71.65.49.38


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> Sorry, only got it from 2017.
> 
> Raw 18-49, 2017-2021
> 
> 
> Month20172018201920202021January1.151.15.88.74.59February1.131.08.91.74.55March1.131.15.93.68.57April1.231.22.89.58.58May.94.87.78.51.48June1.00.91.72.52.47July1.00.91.84.48.48August1.13.98.84.54.55September.99.90.77.51.48October.95.85.74.53.45November.99.84.70.52.45December.87.71.65.49.38


I appreciate you putting this together brotha. This is even worse than the overalls given how important the demos are.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw finishes second in the demo these days only behind the NFL, same for the overalls. That's why they got a huge contract last time (biggest wrestling TV contract of all time despite those drops), and will again this time around. Gotta look around the rest of cable for context. I don't know if people are trolling or legitmately don't know how to read context.

Will be interesting to see how the Brock/Lashley feud draws going into WM.


----------



## ThirdMan

Will also be interesting to see if Brock actually *shows up *regularly on RAW, for however long he's holding that title (I'm still not convinced they're not gonna go right back to Brock vs Roman at Mania). Because people may tune out even more than they already are on weeks he's not advertised, if there's no world champion around (and thus, lower stakes). Which _could _elevate Damian Priest somewhat as US champion, but he, unfortunately, hasn't been getting much of a reaction in the past while despite being booked strong for virtually all of 2021.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Raw finishes second in the demo these days only behind the NFL, same for the overalls.


If you are going by overall viewers, Raw finishes behind Cable News every single week.


Erik. said:


> Sorry, only got it from 2017.
> 
> Raw 18-49, 2017-2021
> 
> 
> Month20172018201920202021January1.151.15.88.74.59February1.131.08.91.74.55March1.131.15.93.68.57April1.231.22.89.58.58May.94.87.78.51.48June1.00.91.72.52.47July1.00.91.84.48.48August1.13.98.84.54.55September.99.90.77.51.48October.95.85.74.53.45November.99.84.70.52.45December.87.71.65.49.38


Demos down > 50% since last TV deal was negotiated in 2017.

Plus another viable Demo alternative in Dynamite being available now to bid against means Raw’s next deal is going to be very subpar.

Most shows that see demo drops of 50+% over a 5 year period get cancelled. Raw won’t get cancelled but they will see significantly less money. It comes down to math. If the price per demo viewer was 1x in 2017, it’s not going to be 2x in 2023.

No TV show in history has survived with declining viewership forever


----------



## DaSlacker

^ I think they've got another big TV contract in them due to the streaming wars factor, money being thrown at live sports, that they were undervalued for years and that they were able to turn their content into packages last time (i.e Raw, SmackDown). During Day One last night there were a lot of Peacocks ads - WWE WrestleMania featured heavily alongside Superbowl, Olympics etc. 

Though I think the money will be about the same as last time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> If you are going by overall viewers, Raw finishes behind Cable News every single week.
> 
> 
> Demos down > 50% since last TV deal was negotiated in 2017.
> 
> Plus another viable Demo alternative in Dynamite being available now to bid against means Raw’s next deal is going to be very subpar.
> 
> Most shows that see demo drops of 50+% over a 5 year period get cancelled. Raw won’t get cancelled but they will see significantly less money. It comes down to math. If the price per demo viewer was 1x in 2017, it’s not going to be 2x in 2023.
> 
> No TV show in history has survived with declining viewership forever


This was all said last time, and they got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history. Look at the showbuzzdaily chart that comes out every week. They are at the top, outside of the NFL, every week.

There are going to be some disappointed folks in the next couple years, just like last time.


----------



## Spartan117

Brock becoming WWE Champion is huge news. There should be an expected small recovery into January for Raw anyway, but Brock's recent appearances have averaged at least a 100k bump for Smackdown. All things well, Raw may break 1.8 million tonight. Hell, maybe it'll do more since we're in unpredictable territory with what comes next now. Something like 1.9 million would be fantastic. Maybe they could build momentum off it. Obviously, if it's still in the 1.6 million range, that'd be terrible, but we still have next week too so a weak number for tonight's show wouldn't necessarily indicate doom just yet. It could be that things just need to settle in for people to learn of what's going on.

Anyway, this is a big month for Raw. If it still hovers in the 1.6-1.7 million range, that will be a disaster. If it can recover back to 1.9 million and above now that Brock is WWE Champion, that'd be very good heading into RTWM relative to how terrible the ratings have been the last few months.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The troll above is the recently perma-banned transphobe Mongstyle.

Raw has been number 2 in all of cable only behind the NFL. They were #1 and #2 in the male and female demo just last week.

Stuff like this is what is going to get WWE another massive TV deal from USA. USA is thrilled. Without Raw, they might not even exist.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> The troll above is the recently perma-banned transphobe Mongstyle.
> 
> Raw has been number 2 in all of cable only behind the NFL. They were #1 and #2 in the male and female demo just last week.
> 
> Stuff like this is what is going to get WWE another massive TV deal from USA. USA is thrilled. Without Raw, they might not even exist.


I think a Youtube TV show in the guise of America's Funniest Videos hosted by David Hasselhoff, with celebrities re-enacting the video's would pull in RAW ratings.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> I think a Youtube TV show in the guise of America's Funniest Videos hosted by David Hasselhoff, with celebrities re-enacting the video's would pull in RAW ratings.


Like it or not, it's #2 in all of cable behind only the NFL. SD finishes second to last place in overall viewers every week vs. the other networks in it's timeslot. They're going to get another massive TV deal when the time comes. People don't read the chart that comes out every week in it's context. Yet, they fall over themselves to defend AEW's numbers.

It's hilarious.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> Like it or not, it's #2 in all of cable behind only the NFL. SD finishes second to last place in overall viewers every week vs. the other networks in it's timeslot. They're going to get another massive TV deal when the time comes. People don't read the chart that comes out every week in it's context. Yet, they fall over themselves to defend AEW's numbers.
> 
> It's hilarious.


Only regarding, WWE numbers. I believe the primary reason WWE has done so well (relative to competition) in recent is Covid. Every studio has been shut down, nobody is taking chances and WWE has taken advantage of the lack of competition in the market. 

Having said that, if Covid does continue for a long-time to come, and competition is scarce then WWE really will get the white whale deal when their contracts are re-newed.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> Only regarding, WWE numbers. I believe the primary reason WWE has done so well (relative to competition) in recent is Covid. Every studio has been shut down, nobody is taking chances and WWE has taken advantage of the lack of competition in the market.
> 
> Having said that, if Covid does continue for a long-time to come, and competition is scarce then WWE really will get the white whale deal when their contracts are re-newed.


TV shows have been making new seasons/content since the first wave of Covid ended. And more importantly than that, the NFL never stopped their games during Covid, either, and the NFL is far and away their biggest competition since it's a juggernaut.

Anyway, no one I'm a fan of has been Champion in along time now, so whatever. It's on other people to draw until something changes.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> TV shows have been making new seasons/content since the first wave of Covid ended. And more importantly than that, the NFL never stopped their games during Covid, either, and the NFL is far and away their biggest competition since it's a juggernaut.


Yes, but nothing new, nothing to take notice of. It's the same shows with different wrappings. There is no new big thing to capture anybody attention.

Heck, Celebrity Bowls could pop a rating in the current climate.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> Yes, but nothing new, nothing to take notice of. It's the same shows with different wrappings. There is no new big thing to capture anybody attention.
> 
> Heck, Celebrity Bowls could pop a rating in the current climate.


There's lots of good shows on TV these days, but most of them are on streaming networks. SD doesn't face much competition and you might be able to say the same thing about RAW if they didn't go head to head with the NFL for 5-6 months out of the year.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> There's lots of good shows on TV these days, but most of them are on streaming networks. SD doesn't face much competition and you might be able to say the same thing about RAW if they didn't go head to head with the NFL for 5-6 months out of the year.


TV isn't competition to streaming, because you can pick your moments to watch it, TV is more time-locked, and therefore has an urgency.

The NFL is an eternal force in the TV calendar, it's not so much competition as something other shows have to live with.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> TV isn't competition to streaming, because you can pick your moments to watch it, TV is more time-locked, and therefore has an urgency.
> 
> The NFL is an eternal force in the TV calendar, it's not so much competition as something other shows have to live with.


Raw goes head to head with the NFL. It is very much competition to any show it goes up against, which Raw does. It is more competition than anyother wrestling or non-wrestling show goes up against. The political TV shows are also competition, too. Not sure what your point is here, but the NFL is more competition than anyone can handle for 5-6 months of the year, every year.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> Raw goes head to head with the NFL. It is very much competition to any show it goes up against, which Raw does. It is more competition than anyother wrestling or non-wrestling show goes up against. The political TV shows are also competition, too. Not sure what your point is here, but the NFL is more competition than anyone can handle for 5-6 months of the year, every year.


I agree the NFL and politics are strong competition.

TV shows running against RAW/SD in the Covid era, not so much.


----------



## DaSlacker

There's several variables that didn't exist when they signed the last deal. 

1) A string of streaming platforms now take complete precedence over network and cable. 

2) NBCSN being phased out and content migrating across. 

3) A rival startup on WarnerMedia channels doing a more 18-49 skewed viewership for a fraction of what they are paying for WWE Raw and NXT. 

4) Comcast taking the complete rights to the WWE Network until the end of 2025.


How all of this impacts on how they feel about WWE Monday Night Raw and the 1.2 billion they pay for it is unknown.


----------



## Lady Eastwood

We can cut the insults now, please, we have a rants section for that.

Cheers 

All posts have been removed. Do not respond to each other. Thanks.


----------



## Seafort

postmoderno said:


> You mistyped 2020 as 2022 there, but still, yeah. Some people have been predicting it will sink closer to a million for a while now, but it hasn't happened.
> 
> You would think for a show around the holidays, where not all the talent is there and up against the NFL would be a time for a dip if any, but no.
> 
> As little as I and many others care for Raw, you have to admit, they've somehow managed to find 1.5 to 1.6 viewers that will consistently watch no matter what.


They have chased away almost all of their casual viewership - they are now instead sampling on Peacock. What’s left is WWE’s American base of diehards, their core support.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478750073668440066

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rankles75

Actually expected more than that, with Brock’s advertised appearance.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Ratings went up by like 120k. Putting the belt on Brock was the right decision. The main event scene was stale.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478750073668440066*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Rankles75 said:


> Actually expected more than that, with Brock’s advertised appearance.


Viewership went from last week's 1.59 million to this week's 1.71 million. Went up 120K. Not even close to 200K.

It's a decent number and the right call as Raw now has ALL of the starpower. But Brock (or anyone else) making the rating go SIGNIFICANTLY up is not a thing. They went up 120K, which is decent. But not some huge difference from before Brock become Champion.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> It's a decent number and the right call as Raw now has ALL of the starpower. .


*After Sasha creating new highs and Seth and Becky drawing new lows, you still haven't learned your lesson. And then you want to cry about trolling when you get proven wrong every single week after making ridiculous statements like this.*


----------



## postmoderno

Interesting. Will be curious to see where the number lands in the next couple weeks. There is no Monday night football this coming week, but oddly one of the playoff games will be a Monday the week after (1/17).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *After Sasha creating new highs and Seth and Becky drawing new lows, you still haven't learned your lesson. And then you want to cry about trolling when you get proven wrong every single week after making ridiculous statements like this.*


Yeah, Sasha and the 8 extra fans she brings in. SD isn't that far above Raw, bro. I haven't learned my lesson? You're the one that gets made fun of endlessly on these threads, not me. Might want to reevaluate that alittle bit.

Everyone shits on the SD roster. It's far from just me. Accept it and take the L that everyone else bestows on you every time you jerk it to Sasha and her 8 fans on these threads.


----------



## InfamousGerald

The Legit Lioness said:


> *After Sasha creating new highs and Seth and Becky drawing new lows, you still haven't learned your lesson. And then you want to cry about trolling when you get proven wrong every single week after making ridiculous statements like this.*


Y’all Sasha stans are insufferable, and I’m a fan of Sasha. No one cares about this argument you’re trying to make but yourself


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Yeah, Sasha and the 8 extra fans she brings in. SD isn't that far above Raw, bro. I haven't learned my lesson? You're the one that gets made fun of endlessly on these threads, not me. Might want to reevaluate that alittle bit.
> 
> 
> Everyone shits on the SD roster. It's far from just me. Accept it and take the L that everyone else bestows on you every time you jerk it to Sasha and her 8 fans on these threads.


*Sasha brought over 300k fans on her last appearance, which is more than double as much as Lesnar did after winning the world championship, but it's clear that you're determined to embarrass yourself by constantly posting wrong information, and that hasn't changed in 7 years, so I expect nothing less.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Sasha brought over 300k fans on her last appearance, which is more than double as much as Lesnar did after winning the world championship, but it's clear that you're determined to embarrass yourself by constantly posting wrong information, and that hasn't changed in 7 years, so I expect nothing less.*


I embarrass myself, yet you just posted what you just posted? Dear Lord. I can see why no one takes you seriously anymore.

Hey guys. Roman and Sasha are huge draws even though Sasha and Roman the BIG DRAWS do worse on FOX than Jinder (as Champion) did on USA. DRAW CITY, BROS.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> I embarrass myself, yet you just posted what you just posted? Dear Lord. I can see why no one takes you seriously anymore.
> 
> Hey guys. Roman and Sasha are huge draws even though Sasha and Roman the BIG DRAWS do worse on FOX than Jinder (as Champion) did on USA. DRAW CITY, BROS.


*I know your feelings are still hurt because you spent 3 months lying on this website about Becky being the biggest star in the women's division, only to be rewarded by record low ratings week after week while Sasha thrives in her absence, but it's never going to make you right. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I know your feelings are still hurt because you spent 3 months lying on this website about Becky being the biggest star in the women's division, only to be rewarded by record low ratings week after week while Sasha thrives in her absence, but it's never going to make you right. *


Meh. You've been lying on this site for YEARS about Reigns being a huge draw (and Sasha), so I wouldn't talk much there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Meh. You've been lying on this site for YEARS about Reigns being a huge draw (and Sasha), so I wouldn't talk much there.


*Imagine denying readily available facts, tripling down, then being mad about how wrong you are.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473040923017846788*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Imagine denying readily available facts
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473040923017846788*


What exactly is one rating for one show supposed to prove exactly? Move over Hogan, Austin, and Rock. An episode of SD drew 2.3 million viewers on Fox. WOW! 

I thought you said the demo doesn't matter? Now it matters? Just more trash posting from you. One week the demo matters, the next it doesn't. For this show the demo matters, for this show it doesn't.

Thanks for reminding all of us you're an even worse poster than we remembered.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> What exactly is one rating for one show supposed to prove exactly? Move over Hogan, Austin, and Rock. An episode of SD drew 2.3 million viewers on Fox. WOW!
> 
> I thought you said the demo doesn't matter? Now it matters? Just more trash posting from you. One week the demo matters, the next it doesn't. For this show the demo matters, for this show it doesn't.
> 
> Thanks for reminding all of us you're an even worse poster than we remembered.


*Look at this guy rage over numbers that he JUST denied existed, lmfao.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Look at this guy rage over numbers that he JUST denied existed, lmfao.*


"Numbers." It really is to see why everyone shits on you in these threads. Even a fellow Sasha fan laughed at you.


----------



## Goku

Erik. said:


> Weekly Raw viewership by year, 2013-21
> 
> 2013 -- 4,158,000
> 2014 -- 4,143,000
> 2015 -- 3,705,000
> 2016 -- 3,203,000
> 2017 -- 3,018,000
> 2018 -- 2,830,000
> 2019 -- 2,415,000
> 2022 -- 1,888,000
> 2021 -- 1,756,000
> 
> This year seems to be lowest drop since 13/14.


So they've lost more tv viewers than retained since 2014, which is incidentally when I stopped watching altogether.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> "Numbers." It really is to see why everyone shits on you in these threads. Even a fellow Sasha fan laughed at you.


*









Watching you embarrass yourself while denying facts is too satisfying. You know you've lost miserably when you resort to ad-hominem.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching you embarrass yourself while denying facts is too satisfying. You know you've lost miserably when you resort to ad-hominem.*


Finally, some good judgement on your part in these threads. Better to bow out. Good call.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Finally, some good judgement on your part in these threads. Better to bow out. Good call.


*Who said I'm leaving? What are you even doing right now? Have you enraged yourself into a state of confusion?

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473160232746377218*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Who said I'm leaving? What are you even doing right now? Have you enraged yourself into a state of confusion?
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473160232746377218*


Wow. 2.4 and 2.5 for segments? Impressive. Still lower than Jinder SD's.

Hey, since we want to bring in numbers. Lets look at what Raw averaged in 2015. You know, an actual 3 hour show head to head vs. the NFL the second half of the year? Let's do it!!!









WWE Monday Night Raw Averaged 3,701,115 Viewers In 2015


WWE Monday Night Raw averaged 3,701,115 viewers through 52 episodes in 2015. I took the final numbers of all of our archived data and averaged them to arrive




www.wrestlingnewsworld.com





Oh, look at that. 3.7 million for an entire 3 hour show vs. 2 million and change for individual segments. Yawn. Get that minor league shit out of here.


----------



## InfamousGerald

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Who said I'm leaving? What are you even doing right now? Have you enraged yourself into a state of confusion?
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473160232746377218*


Lol, the Twitter user with a Sasha Banks pic is REAL unbiased

Also lol at using Twitter in general to back up your claims


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Wow. 2.4 and 2.5 for segments? Impressive. Still lower than Jinder SD's.
> 
> Hey, since we want to bring in numbers. Lets look at what Raw averaged in 2015. You know, an actual 3 hour show head to head vs. the NFL the second half of the year? Let's do it!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Monday Night Raw Averaged 3,701,115 Viewers In 2015
> 
> 
> WWE Monday Night Raw averaged 3,701,115 viewers through 52 episodes in 2015. I took the final numbers of all of our archived data and averaged them to arrive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingnewsworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, look at that. 3.7 million for an entire 3 hour show vs. 2 million and change for individual segments. Yawn. Get that minor league shit out of here.


*Speaking of minor leagues, all I see are numbers that Becky and Seth will never achieve in their lives. Thanks for reminding everyone how they hit new record lows on a weekly basis. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Speaking of minor leagues, all I see are numbers that Becky and Seth will never achieve in their lives. Thanks for reminding everyone how they hit new record lows on a weekly basis. *


3.7 million vs. 2 million.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> 3.7 million vs. 2 million.


*3.7 vs 1.5. Sasha is closer to Jinder the GOAT than Becky and Seth will ever be. Sorry for your loss.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *3.7 vs 1.5. Sasha is closer to Jinder the GOAT than Becky and Seth will ever be. Sorry for your loss.*


3.7 million on Cable vs. 2 million on FOX.

 Fucking pathetic.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> 3.7 million on Cable vs. 2 million on FOX.
> 
> Fucking pathetic.


*Yes, it is pathetic for Becky and Seth to be drawing 1.5 million viewers after being touted as the only stars in wrestling. I agree.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Yes, it is pathetic for Becky and Seth to be drawing 1.5 million viewers after being touted as the only stars in wrestling. I agree.*


Not as pathetic as a 2 hour show on FOX doing 2 million.

3.7 million. A number Roman and Sasha will never touch. Love to see it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Not as pathetic as a 2 hour show on FOX doing 2 million.
> 
> 3.7 million. A number Roman and Sasha will never touch. Love to see it.


*You've got to try harder to get a rise out of me because I don't believe that you believe yourself at this point.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You've got to try harder to get a rise out of me because I don't believe that you believe yourself at this point.*


There's nothing to "believe." 3.7 million is significantly higher (especially for a 3 hour show on Cable) than 2 million and change is on a 2 hour show on FOX.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> There's nothing to "believe." 3.7 million is significantly higher (especially for a 3 hour show on Cable) than 2 million and change is on a 2 hour show on FOX.


*Unlike you, I don't have to compare apples to pizza to distract people from the truth. I can use recent numbers to show Sasha's star power vs recent numbers of RAW's catastrophic decline since the brand split, instead of numbers from 5 years ago to deflect from the drawing failures of Seth and Becky. If I wanted to argue like you with flawed logic all over the place, I could sell Reigns as the greatest modern ratings draw by pointing out he did better numbers than a world champion Daniel Bryan in the main event after the title was vacated in 2014.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Unlike you, I don't have to compare apples to pizza to distract people from the truth. I can use recent numbers to show Sasha's star power vs recent numbers of RAW's catastrophic decline since the brand split, instead of numbers from 5 years ago to deflect from the drawing failures of Seth and Becky.*


Oh yeah. Drawing 2 million FOX and getting by beat by Jinder when he was on Cable are such great, huge numbers that even fellow Sasha fans don’t take you seriously anymore.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Oh yeah. Drawing 2 million FOX and getting by beat by Jinder when he was on Cable are such great, huge numbers that even fellow Sasha fans don’t take you seriously anymore.


*Case in point. You have to deflect from today because you know you've been so egregiously wrong about Becky since last fall and instead of taking your L and walking away, you start raging about something completely irrelevant to distract from that. It's beyond corny.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Case in point. You have to deflect from today because you know you've been so egregiously wrong about Becky since last fall and instead of taking your L and walking away, you start raging about something completely irrelevant to distract from that. It's beyond corny.*


You started with the “Sasha is a draw” nonsense that even spurred another Sasha fan to chime in at what a joke some of your claims are.
If someone is going to claim that a segment on national television drawing 2.4 million makes someone a draw of course it’s fair to bring up an entire 3 hour show doing over a million more than that spread over 3 hours on cable is much better.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> You started with the “Sasha is a draw” nonsense that even spurred another Sasha fan to chime in at what a joke some of your claims are.
> If someone is going to claim that a segment on national television drawing 2.4 million makes someone a draw of course it’s fair to bring up an entire 3 hour show doing over a million more than that spread over 3 hours on cable is much better.


* Imagine categorizing factual statistics as "nonsense" and "claims." That's where you always bury your own argument, but you haven't figured that out yet, which is why you keep putting yourself in these situations. *


----------



## InfamousGerald

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Imagine categorizing factual statistics as "nonsense" and "claims." That's where you always bury your own argument, but you haven't figured that out yet, which is why you keep putting yourself in these situations. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Imagine categorizing factual statistics as "nonsense" and "claims." That's where you always bury your own argument, but you haven't figured that out yet, which is why you keep putting yourself in these situations. *


The insane amount of irony here is hilarious.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

They have two more weeks of competition with the CFP National Championship on 1/10 and the Wild Card Game the following week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a great number considering the title change and Brock Lesnar being there as the new champion. It’s better, but better from bottom of the barrel isn’t much to be impressed by, especially when Lesnar is the biggest part time star they have. It’s the same deal with Smackdown. Nice little boosts when looking through a microscope, but a sad overall trend when looking from afar.


----------



## ThirdMan

And regardless of Brock, post-premium-live-event (well, that's a mouthful) episodes generally see a bump, as do shows immediately following a title-change. Though, of course, once the Monday football games are over, I'd expect the show to be in the 1.7-1.85 range most weeks, at least leading up to Mania. We...shall...see.


----------



## InexorableJourney

It must be tough for RAW knowing they'll be losing in the region of 200,000 viewers when Brock leaves.


----------



## rollinsnation91

The ratings were honestly not bad at all. Im not surprised. RAW after Day 1 was one of the best they put so far. All of the men division did well on that show. Brock was obviously the big draw there but overall the show was fine.
1/3/22: 1,716,000 viewers -- Hope they keep this up.


----------



## Blonde

The Legit Lioness said:


> * Imagine categorizing factual statistics as "nonsense" and "claims." That's where you always bury your own argument, but you haven't figured that out yet, which is why you keep putting yourself in these situations. *


I don't know how you don't feel like a geek with every post you make here. Seriously, man.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw is one of only three non-sports/news shows on Cable this week (as of last night) that did .40 or more in the demo. And people want to shit on Raw's ratings and are gonna be surprised when they get another massive deal.  That main event certainly delivered:

January 2022 non sports/non news shows over .40+

1.76 Yellowstone Sunday 2nd 2022 8PM Parm
.52 90 Day Fiance Sunday 2nd 2022 8PM TLC
.45 Raw Monday 3rd 2022 8PM USA

That Yellowstone show is a fucking monster. 1.76 in the demo and 10.3 million overall viewers. Wow.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Wow, just saw the AEW number. Pretty disappointing considering they got the west coast viewers back and TBS is in more households than TNT and all the hype and promotion for this show.

That's a win for WWE.


----------



## ThirdMan

@Showstopper This is the only AEW-related ratings thing I'll post here, since you brought it up. Brandon Thurston recently posted the following data on Twitter, suggesting that West Coast viewership decreases relative to Dynamite being live on the West Coast were overstated, considering it experienced the same decreases on the East Coast during that time period as well. Anyways, they'll have a better idea of what their base viewership actually is after that show has settled on TBS for a few weeks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476712383670272000


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> @Showstopper This is the only AEW-related ratings thing I'll post here, since you brought it up. Brandon Thurston recently posted the following data on Twitter, suggesting that West Coast viewership decreases relative to Dynamite being live on the West Coast were overstated, considering it experienced the same decreases on the East Coast during that time period as well. Anyways, they'll have a better idea of what their base viewership actually is after that show has settled on TBS for a few weeks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476712383670272000


Wow, that's pretty eye opening. So, all those lower viewerships in the past several months wasn't due to the west coast thing? That's not good. That means it was it's true number if what this guy is saying is true.


----------



## ThirdMan

Yeah, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks.


----------



## Spartan117

Next week matters more as does the show before the Royal Rumble. The bump is 10% which is significant, especially against competition. Part of it will be recovery and part of it is Brock's appearance. If they struggle next week by dropping below 1.7 million again or the week before the PPV, then they'll probably have a rough time post-Royal Rumble heading into WM. Otherwise, a few weeks are needed to see how the trend is developing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Yeah, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks.


Yeah, some of us predicted the increase wouldn't be big, and well, yeah, we were right.


----------



## Not Lying

good old days lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

College Football National Championship predictably destroyed them:

1.632 million overall.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,632,000 - .39

Last Week - 1,716,000 - . 45

Last Year - 1,819,000 - . 55


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Make it a 2 hour show, and those numbers are much better. But the extra hour nets them an extra $500 million in the end. That's more than anyother wrestling company makes in an entire year..


----------



## postmoderno

Again, will be most interesting to see where they are at for the episode of Jan 24 and thereafter. They were never going to compete with the National Championship, and should get crushed by the NFL playoff game too. Jan 24 will be the go home for RR and the first night without any real competition. If the RR is interesting at all, the show after should do well. We'll see.


----------



## Cosmo77

3 hrs is too long hurts the pace of the show


----------



## ThirdMan

The best indicators of the ratings going forward will be the go-home show for the Rumble (with no NFL or colllege football championship competition), and particularly the post-Rumble episode, especially if there are title changes at the RR.

I wouldn't be shocked if they do a high 1.4 in the ratings next week, against the NFL playoff game. Truth be told, anything above a 1.6 on that night would probably be considered a win.


----------



## Dark Emperor

ThirdMan said:


> The best indicators of the ratings going forward will be the go-home show for the Rumble (with no NFL or colllege football championship competition), and particularly the post-Rumble episode, especially if there are title changes at the RR.
> 
> I wouldn't be shocked if they do a high 1.4 in the ratings next week, against the NFL playoff game. Truth be told, anything above a 1.6 on that night would probably be considered a win.


A wildcard NFL playoff game will not do 22m viewers like the College National Championships this week. This game was actually seriously massive.

So they should at least maintain 1.6m or so next week


----------



## Spartan117

postmoderno said:


> Again, will be most interesting to see where they are at for the episode of Jan 24 and thereafter. They were never going to compete with the National Championship, and should get crushed by the NFL playoff game too. Jan 24 will be the go home for RR and the first night without any real competition. If the RR is interesting at all, the show after should do well. We'll see.


This is true, but this number is bad even with competition. It basically indicates no recovery for WM season. Also keep in mind February can be a downturn before Match picks up. It's going to be very interesting to see what WWE does in the coming weeks. I can see them doing panic moves and moving to a unification match if the ratings continue to be really bad. Raw is going sub 1.5 million viewers this year on the regular; that much seems assured if there is no bounce back in the coming weeks. I don't see them doing 1.7-1.8 million in March if Brock is off the show and their WM program is Seth Rollins vs. Big E. They're basically screwed, especially coming out of WM.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> The best indicators of the ratings going forward will be the go-home show for the Rumble (with no NFL or colllege football championship competition), and particularly the post-Rumble episode, especially if there are title changes at the RR.
> 
> I wouldn't be shocked if they do a high 1.4 in the ratings next week, against the NFL playoff game. Truth be told, anything above a 1.6 on that night would probably be considered a win.


Yeah. I was expecting worse than what they got today due to the National Championship. Kinda shocked, tbh. Still finished #2 on on the night only behind the game. Big victory for them. This is more competition than anyother wrestling show faces in any company.


----------



## ThirdMan

Dark Emperor said:


> A wildcard NFL playoff game will not do 22m viewers like the College National Championships this week. This game was actually seriously massive.
> 
> So they should at least maintain 1.6m or so next week


It would certainly _seem _that way, but when was the last time an NFL playoff game aired on a Monday? Plus, "special attraction" Brock may not actually appear on next week's show. They may have had Brock and Lashley handling most of the mic duties this week because MVP and Heyman will be doing the honours next week (with Brock absent).


Showstopper said:


> Yeah. I was expecting worse than what they got today due to the National Championship. Kinda shocked, tbh. Still finished #2 on on the night only behind the game. Big victory for them. This is more competition than any other wrestling show faces in any company.


Yeah. I wasn't sure what to expect.

Anyways, people were saying they were gonna do a sub-1.5 average _last year_, and that never really materialized. I still expect something in the 1.7-1.8 range for February and March. The _real _WrestleMania season isn't until after the Rumble.


----------



## SPCDRI

The college football game was a total monster and did millions more than last year, but it wasn't the most watched CFB championship game of those 5 years. These are the ratings for RAW against the CFB championship game for the last 5 years, viewership and demo averaged for the 3 hours

January 8, 2018 - 2.756 (0.90)
January 14th, 2019 - 2.722m (0.91)
January 13th, 2020 - 2.030m (0.61) 
January 11th, 2021 - 1.819m (0.55)
January 10th, 2022 - 1.632m (0.39)

Wowza.


----------



## Randy Lahey

SPCDRI said:


> The college football game was a total monster and did millions more than last year, but it wasn't the most watched CFB championship game of those 5 years. These are the ratings for RAW against the CFB championship game for the last 5 years, viewership and demo averaged for the 3 hours
> 
> January 8, 2018 - 2.756 (0.90)
> January 14th, 2019 - 2.722m (0.91)
> January 13th, 2020 - 2.030m (0.61)
> January 11th, 2021 - 1.819m (0.55)
> January 10th, 2022 - 1.632m (0.39)
> 
> Wowza.


They’ve lost > 50% of their demo in the last 5 years. 

Those are really bad numbers for a live TV show. Beating whatever else is on the rest of the basic cable channels outside of live sports isn’t good enough. It was probably good enough when they were doing 0.90s and the next best regular show did 0.20-0.30.

But now they are in the 0.40 range and those other shows are still the same level. Difference is far smaller than 5 years ago meaning Raw is far less valuable


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This is still higher than the demo AEW has been doing for months, but difference is Raw had stiff competition last night. Yikes.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> This is still higher than the demo AEW has been doing for months, but difference is Raw had stiff competition last night. Yikes.


With a 30 year head start I would certainly hope so. Lest we forget, WWE is still the first thing that pops into everyone's heads when you say wrestling. The fact that anyone has not only got this close on a consistent basis but has even beaten Raw and Smackdown in the demos several times is astonishing.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper, you have to be the biggest WWE shill outside of RapShephard and the Aussie clowns, but what part of this equation do you not understand:

TBS pays AEW to get a 0.35-0.45. That’s what their deal was most likely negotiated on.

USA paid Raw FAR MORE to do a 0.90 to 1.10. Raw is now a 0.40 to 0.50 show. 

If Raw’s demo decline continues in the next 5 years like the previous, they’ll be doing 0.20 to 0.30 aka Rampage numbers. You think USA is going to pay Raw a billion dollars to do what Rampage does? And Rampage does it at the worst time slot imaginable.

Raw doing Rampage numbers in prime time gets them cancelled, and that is the trend Raw is going in based on the last 5 years.

There demo was down 20% from last year at this time and last year was in the Thunderdome with no fans


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ShadowCounter said:


> With a 30 year head start I would certainly hope so. Lest we forget, WWE is still the first thing that pops into everyone's heads when you say wrestling. The fact that anyone has not only got this close on a consistent basis but has even beaten Raw and Smackdown in the demos several times is astonishing.


Not really. No one cares about 30 years ago. WWE's ratings started declining in 2000/2001. You have to look at the current landscape. Just last week, Raw was one of only 4 shows on Cable that did over a .4 in the demo, and that's with it being a 3 hour show, and going head to head with the NFL.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Showstopper, you have to be the biggest WWE shill outside of RapShephard and the Aussie clowns, but what part of this equation do you not understand:
> 
> TBS pays AEW to get a 0.35-0.45. That’s what their deal was most likely negotiated on.
> 
> USA paid Raw FAR MORE to do a 0.90 to 1.10. Raw is now a 0.40 to 0.50 show.
> 
> If Raw’s demo decline continues in the next 5 years like the previous, they’ll be doing 0.20 to 0.30 aka Rampage numbers. You think USA is going to pay Raw a billion dollars to do what Rampage does? And Rampage does it at the worst time slot imaginable.
> 
> Raw doing Rampage numbers in prime time gets them cancelled, and that is the trend Raw is going in based on the last 5 years.
> 
> There demo was down 20% from last year at this time and last year was in the Thunderdome with no fans


You calling anyone else here a shill is hilarious. I shit on the quality of the shows all the time. But the ratings are a different story. Just last week, Raw was one of only FOUR shows on Cable that did over a .4 in the demo. If you don't think that's extremely valuable to a cable network, you're insane. Raw has been beating AEW in the demo for MONTHS now, too. You also said Raw wouldn't get a good TV contract a few years ago, and they BROKE the record for TV deals for wrestling shows to the tune of $1.5 BILLION DOLLARS.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> Not really. No one cares about 30 years ago. *WWE's ratings started declining in 2000/2001*. You have to look at the current landscape. Just last week, Raw was one of only 4 shows on Cable that did over a .4 in the demo, and that's with it being a 3 hour show, and going head to head with the NFL.


So 20 years ago then?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw is gonna be cancelled? HAHAHAHAHAHA. This is the main guy who said the same thing a few years ago, and they got the biggest TV Wrestling deal in HISTORY.

Talk about being wrong. Couldn't have been more wrong if he tried.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dynamite also did over a 0.40 last week. But TBS plays Dynamite about 80% less than what USA is paying for Raw.

So either Dynamite is also worth a billion dollars to do a 0.40 (it’s not), or Raw is worth far far far less now (when they are doing a 0.40) than 5 years ago when they were doing close to 1.0.

I mean how low do the demos have to go. Being 2nd to live sports with a 0.90 is way different than 2nd to live sports with a 0.40.

Bottomline is demos set the advertising rates. If there’s less people watching your show, then you can’t charge as much for ads. If you can’t charge as much for ads, then you can’t pay as much for the show you are selling the ad space on.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

To talk shit after AEW's disasterous rating last week,  On a new network in more households than TNT, got the West Coast fans back live, and barely did a million viewers AND lost in the demo to Raw, too.

The fucking audacity. 

You said this a few years ago too, as did others, and you were completely and utterly wrong. Raw did their .45 demo head to head against the NFL. AEW, did a lower demo, against much less competition (no NFL), on a network with more households than TNT AND with west coast viewers back. Look at the chart every week. Raw is only under the NFL consistently, and that's about it. 

You predicted they would either get cancelled or a much lesser deal just a few years ago, and they broke the record for the highest TV deal in wrestling history. I get that hurts and it _completely_ killed your credibility on the topic, but..


----------



## ShadowCounter

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw doing Rampage numbers in prime time gets them cancelled


They're not gonna get cancelled, but they are gonna take a reduced rate when it comes to what they get paid by FOX and USA next time. Hell, they know this already. It's why they are cutting talent at the rate they are. Vince isn't selling WWE. He's downsizing in preparation for the haircut heading his way soon.


----------



## Flairwhoo84123

Raw ain't going to be cancelled anytime soon, however WWE needs to get their act togther, let's say hypothetically that USA decides to revamp their entire network and go in a different direction with programming, and decides , it doesnt want wrestling anymore, where does raw go?

While WWE wont die , they have too much tv rights, and assets, what about the future ,l? especially after Vince dies? Who his successor? Hope it isnt Kevin Dunn, who would proabably sell it to Disney and make it somthing like "wrestlers on Ice" .


----------



## Randy Lahey

Flairwhoo84123 said:


> Raw ain't going to be cancelled anytime soon, however WWE needs to get their act togther, let's say hypothetically that USA decides to revamp their entire network and go in a different direction with programming, and decides , it doesnt want wrestling anymore, where does raw go?
> 
> While WWE wont die , they have too much tv rights, and assets, what about the future ,l? especially after Vince dies? Who his successor? Hope it isnt Kevin Dunn, who would proabably sell it to Disney and make it somthing like "wrestlers on Ice" .


USA is going to an all sports format, so their programming is for sure changing and WWE simply won’t be as important to them.

There’s a reason ESPN has never bid on wrestling and USA is going to a similar 24/7 sports format similar to Fox Sports 1


----------



## Flairwhoo84123

Randy Lahey said:


> USA is going to an all sports format, so their programming is for sure changing and WWE simply won’t be as important to them.
> 
> There’s a reason ESPN has never bid on wrestling and USA is going to a similar 24/7 sports format similar to Fox Sports 1


So USA going in the direction of Fox Sports 1, fascinating, Vince better think where to shop Raw to, streaming while good, doesnt get wide exposure tv does, even if cable is declining all around.


----------



## Kentucky34

Good number considering the competition. 

WWE are in a good place.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

People love being wrong and never learn their lesson. Oh well.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Showstopper said:


> People love being wrong and never learn their lesson. Oh well.



Blockbuster, Toys R Us, Radioshack, Xerox, Sears, etc.... All thought they were invincible until they weren't. Nothing is certain in life my friend. Complacency is a cancer that is hard to get rid of.


----------



## Goku

Showstopper said:


> People love being wrong and never learn their lesson. Oh well.


Is this some kind of self-reflection or..? Are you exempting yourself from this supposed general truth?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Goku said:


> Is this some kind of self-reflection or..? Are you exempting yourself from this supposed general truth?


I already said a million times I was one of the many on here who was wrong about WWE's most recent TV contract negotiations and that I thought they wouldn't get this big of a deal. I was wrong. Only have said it a bunch of times here.


----------



## Zappers

ShadowCounter said:


> With a 30 year head start I would certainly hope so. Lest we forget, WWE is still the first thing that pops into everyone's heads when you say wrestling. The fact that anyone has not only got this close on a consistent basis but has even beaten Raw and Smackdown in the demos several times is astonishing.


What's astonishing about it really? Wrestling on TV is nowhere where it used to be. AEW is on on a major network with A TON of promotion and a ton of money behind it. More than TNA/Impact ever did times ten. They are on 3 hrs a week. Easy peasy watching. You're in and out. WWE is a bloated 5 hours of programing 52 weeks a year against strong competition. Not to mention 2hrs of NXT. Making it 7hrs. Not easy getting people to commit to that. Cut RAW to 2hrs and make NXT 1hr again. Watch the ratings climb.

Also, I wanna throw in. Not talking to you specifically, just talk in general. Do people realize the entire AEW audience is the WWE audience. A lot of WWE fans watch AEW(but not all)... and practically every AEW fan watches WWE. This is NOT WWE vs WCW. AEW is basically an offshoot, a spinoff of WWE. Almost more so then NXT. So thank WWE fans for any ratings AEW gets whatsoever.

WWE and WCW getting 5's and 6's going head to head during the no DVR's/Youtube/Internet(as we know it now) era...... Now that's astonishing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

And even with massive competition this week, Raw still beat AEW in the demo 507K to 505K. I'd expect AEW to win the demo next week due to the competition being an NFL Playoff game. But they should've beat them this week. Oh well.


----------



## Cosmo77

Wow! a whole 2k! comparing AEW and RAW is meaininglesss. RAW did a 1.6 and that is with both Brock,Edge.


----------



## Kentucky34

Cosmo77 said:


> Wow! a whole 2k! comparing AEW and RAW is meaininglesss. RAW did a 1.6 and that is with both Brock,Edge.


Over 600k more than AEW even with the extra hour. 

RAW is a better show too.


----------



## Cosmo77

Raw is only better cause of part timers.really cant compare the two


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dynamite grew their demo by 30% since last year's show (0.30 to 0.39).
Raw decreased their demo by 30% since last year's show (0.55 to 0.39).

USA pays Raw 4x what TBS pays Dynamite. Something like that. WIth these trends, and these numbers, there's absolutely no way that continues. Either Dynamite is worth way more, or Raw is worth way less, or both.


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> Dynamite grew their demo by 30% since last year's show (0.30 to 0.39).
> Raw decreased their demo by 30% since last year's show (0.55 to 0.39).
> 
> USA pays Raw 4x what TBS pays Dynamite. Something like that. WIth these trends, and these numbers, there's absolutely no way that continues. Either Dynamite is worth way more, or Raw is worth way less, or both.


A customer is a customer.

RAW still draws almost double the audience of AEW.


----------



## Zappers

Alright. I'll say this for tonight's RAW. 1/17/2022

They will either get a pass or a small pat on the back.

Tonight is a NFL Playoff game. (first ever on Monday) This should do very well. So if RAW can hold the ratings it did last week. But if they drop. We will know the reason why imho.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Kentucky34 said:


> A customer is a customer.
> 
> RAW still draws almost double the audience of AEW.


Yup. That dude is obsessed. He was wrong years ago about this most recent deal and is severly butt-hurt about it and loves to be wrong, as we can see. I mean, Raw beat Dynamite last week when they went up again the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. THAT is PATHETIC on AEW's part. Beat them in overall and demo. Pathetic.


----------



## Kentucky34

If RAW does more than 1.3 or 1.4 million viewers this week it will be a good number. 

The NFL Playoffs should destroy them,


----------



## postmoderno

Kentucky34 said:


> If RAW does more than 1.3 or 1.4 million viewers this week it will be a good number.
> 
> The NFL Playoffs should destroy them,


It might be interesting. The game was really not competitive, starting from pretty early on. I didn't watch Raw this week but if they had anything halfway decent going on, it might end up pulling an ok rating. I'll be curious to see.


----------



## Kentucky34

postmoderno said:


> It might be interesting. The game was really not competitive, starting from pretty early on. I didn't watch Raw this week but if they had anything halfway decent going on, it might end up pulling an ok rating. I'll be curious to see.


LA is a massive market though.


----------



## postmoderno

Kentucky34 said:


> LA is a massive market though.


True, but it's not necessarily known to be a rabid NFL fanbase.

Either way, next week's results will paint a clearer picture, imo, since they finally won't be going up against anything meaningful at all.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Update?


----------



## Butt Soup

3k people on the crowd according to the latest Wrestlelamia video. I haven't watched Raw or SD in a while, do they still open the show with "sold out crowd tonight"?


----------



## Spartan117

Butt Soup said:


> 3k people on the crowd according to the latest Wrestlelamia video. I haven't watched Raw or SD in a while, do they still open the show with "sold out crowd tonight"?


Don't think so. They only sell-out they've had was Smackdown last week, but that was around 6k. They did 9k on Smackdown like 2 or 3 weeks before even though it didn't sell out, and a couple shows with 10k in the previous months. Raw tends to average around 4k. Smackdown is usually doing 6k or above depending on the market.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Probably tomorrow due to MLK Holiday


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483644727719251971


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

^
Thank you! That's what I've been saying. Don't be surprised at all if they either get the same deal, if not even bigger. The entire wrestling business is perhaps at an all-time low in terms of interest. Forget about the AE, this isn't even the RA Era. But since everything else (outside of the NFL, of course) is down, too, that's how it goes.

And, a HUGE sidenote; it still rings true today, USA Network without Raw literally might not even exist anymore, or at the very least, they'd be on life-support. You can't say that about TNT, TBS, or FOX when it comes to the wrestling shows they air. All of those channels would be just fine without any of the wrestling shows they currently air.


----------



## Fearless Viper

^AEW marks should be glad about this since this will benefit them as well. Even Tony Khan admitted that the huge tv deals was the reason he decided to jump to the wrestling business.


----------



## DaSlacker

The problem there is WWE and AEW ain't sports. They're just live entertainment albeit scripted and ultra unsophisticated. Even with often more viewers, neither have the reach and appeal to sponsors/advertisers of an NHL, Premier League, College Basketball. 

Whilst it's true they hit a in 2018-2019, you can never rely on that indefinitely. Look at WCW - yeah it had cost Turner Sports upwards of 100 million and dropped in viewership. Yet it was still higher than anything else on there and provided several hours of content. One new executive and it's sold off. 

Now USA Network has been integrated with NBCSN and they have all the stuff from the WWE Network for $1 billion. Do they really need to spend another $1.5 billion just for live showings of Raw and NXT?


----------



## Cosmo77

Because of the merger with nbcsn,raw might end up on the network, I dont see USA paying 1.5 billon again


----------



## Zappers

Showstopper said:


> ^
> Thank you! That's what I've been saying. Don't be surprised at all if they either get the same deal, if not even bigger. The entire wrestling business is perhaps at an all-time low in terms of interest. Forget about the AE, this isn't even the RA Era. But since everything else (outside of the NFL, of course) is down, too, that's how it goes.
> 
> And, a HUGE sidenote; it still rings true today, USA Network without Raw literally might not even exist anymore, or at the very least, they'd be on life-support. You can't say that about TNT, TBS, or FOX when it comes to the wrestling shows they air. All of those channels would be just fine without any of the wrestling shows they currently air.


Correct. TNT and TBS get higher ratings showing movies. They don't need wrestling. They have "real" sports as a major player. But, they can afford to experiment from time to time. If wrestling does well... great, if not, they literally don't care.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Holy shit. Not bad at all considering they went head to head against an NFL Playoff Game for the first time ever:

Hour 1: 1.734
Hour 2: 1.650
Hour 3: 1.456


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The game did about 23 million between ABC, ESPN, and ESPN2 (Manningcast with The Rock), so that's a pretty good number for Raw.


----------



## Flairwhoo84123

Showstopper said:


> Holy shit. Not bad at all considering they went head to head against an NFL Playoff Game for the first time ever:
> 
> Hour 1: 1.734
> Hour 2: 1.650
> Hour 3: 1.456


Not bad, they still need to do somthing about the 3rd hour, the dropoff is obvious.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Demo is up from last week, too.

Incredible numbers, especially considering last night's competition.


----------



## postmoderno

LOL. After that speculation of all time lows. Looks like just another week to me.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw's demo from last night is actually higher than it was last week. LOL. Also worth nothing that the demo in Hour 2 was maintained in Hour 3. They did a .49 in both of those final hours. So, whatever they had billed for Hour 3 kept the entire demo audience from Hour 2.


----------



## Rankles75

Probably would have been a different story if it had been the Cowboys/49ers game instead of the lame duck Cards, but solid figures nonetheless.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,613,000 (.43) 

Last Week - 1,633,000 (.39)

Last Year - 1,854,000 (.60)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I can't believe it. Incredible.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

More demo breakdown. They actually tied the NBA in Females 12-34. 


F 18-49 .36 = Finished in 3rd place for the night in all of Cable Females 18-49
M 18-49 .51 # 1


F12-34 .23 #1
M12-34 .28 #1

WOW.


----------



## ThirdMan

Yes quite surprising, especially considering Brock wasn't advertised or anything.


Showstopper said:


> Also worth nothing that the demo in Hour 2 was maintained in Hour 3. They did a .49 in both of those final hours.


Did you make a typo with this number? Because I thought the overall demo number was 0.43. Or are you just talking about the male 18-49 demo?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Yes quite surprising, especially considering Brock wasn't advertised or anything.
> Did you make a typo with this number? Because I thought the overall demo number was 0.43.


Yes. I took that out. I was reading the wrong line. My eyes are tired, been staring at laptops all day at work.


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> Yes. I took that out. I was reading the wrong line. My eyes are tired, been staring at laptops all day at work.


All good, man.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ROLLINS THE DRAW!!!!! NFL WHO?

And before anyone thinks I'm being serious, I'm joking.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

January 2022 non sports/non news shows over .40+

1.76 Yellowstone Sunday 2nd 8PM Parm
.63 90 Day Fiance Sunday Jan 9th TLC
.52 90 Day Fiance Sunday Jan 2nd 8PM TLC
.48 90 Day Fiance Sunday Jan 16th 8PM TLC
*.45 Raw Monday Jan 3rd 8PM USA (Last Night's RAW)
.43 Raw Monnday Jan 17th 9PM USA*
.43 AEW Dynamite Wednesday 8PM TBS
.43 Sister Wives Sunday Jan 9th TLC


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Lol i wouldnt call these incredible, but it's okay.

Last weeks College football game did monster rating too, maybe more than this NFL game? So not sure why record low was expected, it is the build up to Rumble which is many peoples fav PPV including me.

Good for them maintaining. They need to go up now unto Mania except for the 2 weeks on Scifi.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dark Emperor said:


> Lol i wouldnt call these incredible, but it's okay.
> 
> Last weeks College football game did monster rating too, maybe more than this NFL game? So not sure why record low was expected, it is the build up to Rumble which is many peoples fav PPV including me.
> 
> Good for them maintaining. They need to go up now unto Mania except for the 2 weeks on Scifi.


It's the first time an NFL Playoff game aired on a day that wasn't a Saturday or Sunday. One huge market team (LA Rams) head to head with a 3 hour Raw in which their World Champion wasn't on the show and a main event that has been done before with nothing on the line in this match. The NFL is a juggernaut, even more than NCAA Football, and is particularly a beast in the demo.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483912846090067976


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Fact is pretty much no one watches the NFL or WWE. The numbers really haven't changed during the NFL season and I don't expect them to change too much going forward. 

To think that barely 1.6M and a .43 is considered good for a show in it's 30th season where most viewers watch out of habit (I did for the first 29).


----------



## Sincere

Flairwhoo84123 said:


> Not bad, they still need to do somthing about the 3rd hour, the dropoff is obvious.


And that something is: they need to trim all the bloat, filler, and fat and get rid of the third hour altogether.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Fact is pretty much no one watches the NFL or WWE. The numbers really haven't changed during the NFL season and I don't expect them to change too much going forward.
> 
> To think that barely 1.6M and a .43 is considered good for a show in it's 30th season where most viewers watch out of habit (I did for the first 29).


NFL ratings are up from last year. And this isn't the regular season anymore. This is the playoffs with a big market team involved in this particular game. That number isn't only "good" for this show, it's fucking great considering the head to head competition. No one cares if this show has been around for 30 years. What they care about is if it's good enough, and Vince has done a fuck-ton of damage to this show over the past 20 years. They will and should celebrate the fuck out of this number.


----------



## Not Lying

Showstopper said:


> ROLLINS THE DRAW!!!!! NFL WHO?
> 
> And before anyone thinks I'm being serious, I'm joking.


Becky opened the show and look at that first hour


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> Becky opened the show and look at that first hour


First hour did fantastic. Right after that opening segment; Seth was on the KO Show. (Y)


----------



## Fearless Viper

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Fact is pretty much no one watches the NFL or WWE. The numbers really haven't changed during the NFL season and I don't expect them to change too much going forward.
> 
> To think that barely 1.6M and a .43 is considered good for a show in it's 30th season where most viewers watch out of habit (I did for the first 29).


Stop comparing the numbers from the previous decade. What matters is their placement in the cable ratings and they're just behind NFL and that's a win.


----------



## Kentucky34

Credit goes to Seth and Becky.

Brock wasn't on the show.


----------



## Zappers

Zappers said:


> Alright. I'll say this for tonight's RAW. 1/17/2022
> 
> They will either get a pass or a small pat on the back.
> 
> Tonight is a NFL Playoff game. (first ever on Monday) This should do very well. So if RAW can hold the ratings it did last week. But if they drop. We will know the reason why imho.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Great sign for RAW going forward. Despite going head to head with an NFL Playoff game this week, they basically tied AEW in the demo (.44 to .43) and of course demolished AEW in overall viewers. And that was with a returning Moxley!

Great sign for RAW/WWE.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The fact that they demolished them by 600K while going up against a playoff NFL game with no Brock/World Champion on the show is absolutely insane (in a good way). They have to be thrilled considering so many were wondering if they'd do a record low this week; and not only did they not do that, but they won by 600K and pretty much did the same demo.

Excellent news for this Raw roster, and WWE, as a whole.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> The fact that they demolished them by 600K while going up against a playoff NFL game with no Brock/World Champion on the show is absolutely insane (in a good way). They have to be thrilled considering so many were wondering if they'd do a record low this week; and not only did they not do that, but they won by 600K and pretty much did the same demo.
> 
> Excellent news for this Raw roster, and WWE, as a whole.


Dude a show that gets paid 1/5 what Raw does did a better demo. That’s horrible news for WWE. Advertisers don’t care about the old people watching.

Bottomline is 5 years ago when they negotiated with USA there was no other wrestling alternative. Now there is, and it took less than 2.5 years to catch Raw in the key demo.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, the events from this week pretty much just tells me that more younger viewers tuned in to watch Dynamite compared to Raw.

It's expected for WWE shows to get more overall viewers than AEW shows since the former has been around for nearly 70 years (and with 29 years of exposure of being exposed on national television) whereas the latter has only been on TV for 2+ years.

It took like 6 years for WWE to skyrocket its ratings and peak during the hottest period in wrestling history.

AEW is still relatively getting started. I doubt we'll see their 'peak' until we approach the 2nd half of this decade (like some time between 2025 through 2028).

Dynamite getting around a million viewers is really good news for them now.

Ideally, their aim for Raw should be to stay near 2 million viewers nowadays.

Honestly, I'm just glad that Raw got a fairly solid number (for 2022 standards) this week. I've enjoyed most of their episodes since the draft took place back in late October, and the solid number for Raw this week spares the individual talents from taking the blame for whatever reason.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Randy Lahey said:


> Dude a show that gets paid 1/5 what Raw does did a better demo. That’s horrible news for WWE. Advertisers don’t care about the old people watching.
> 
> Bottomline is 5 years ago when they negotiated with USA there was no other wrestling alternative. Now there is, and it took less than 2.5 years to catch Raw in the key demo.


Do you think that Dynamite would have perform well on Monday Nights competitions like Raw did?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, the events from this week pretty much just tells me that more younger viewers tuned in to watch Dynamite compared to Raw.





Randy Lahey said:


> Dude a show that gets paid 1/5 what Raw does did a better demo. That’s horrible news for WWE. Advertisers don’t care about the old people watching.
> 
> Bottomline is 5 years ago when they negotiated with USA there was no other wrestling alternative. Now there is, and it took less than 2.5 years to catch Raw in the key demo.


I predicted AEW would win in the demo due to Raw going against an NFL Playoff game. But I thought it would be by far more than .01. The fact that it was that close is hilarious. It took WWE going up against the stiffest competition that exists on planet Earth, an NFL Playoff game, for AEW to BARELY beat them .44 to .43. That's PATHETIC. Noticed you weren't here on Wednesday when the Raw rating came out. Not surprised.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I


Fearless Viper said:


> Do you think that Dynamite would have perform well on Monday Nights competitions like Raw did?


When AEW gets a bad rating (which is quite often these days) I've seen people on the AEW thread blame their top competition as some reality show on MTV. LOL. At first, I thought they were joking. But they're actually quite serious. MTV hasn't been relevant or popular in like 20 years. Meanwhile, Raw has a third hour AND goes against the NFL for half the year, the NCAA Football Championship, and still keeps pace with them in the demo (and beats them the strong majority of the time) and still destroys them in overall viewers. Hilarious.

Meanwhile, they said when they go on TBS and get the west coast viewers back, they'd be doing far more than what they've been doing.


----------



## Kentucky34

I think some need to just admit that Seth and Becky can draw. 

They are pulling these numbers without being booked as the FOTC.


----------



## Sincere

Kentucky34 said:


> I think some need to just admit that Seth and Becky can draw.
> 
> They are pulling these numbers without being booked as the FOTC.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Fearless Viper said:


> Stop comparing the numbers from the previous decade. What matters is their placement in the cable ratings and they're just behind NFL and that's a win.


Sorry those numbers f***ing suck. The NFL does not make that much of a difference with Raw ratings anymore no matter how many millions watch it.


----------



## Kentucky34

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Sorry those numbers f***ing suck. The NFL does not make that much of a difference with Raw ratings anymore no matter how many millions watch it.


Yes it does.


----------



## Spartan117

I don't watch AEW but it by no stretch is getting a bad rating at any point. The show was doing something like 800k on average and is now hitting closer to 1 million. It's also had some growth compared to the previous year. (Thanks to many big debuts building momentum.) That's a pretty great for such a new wrestling show. Comparing Mondays to Wednesday during NFL season is a bit stupid, since that is not at all a like for like comparison, but there is truth to the fact that AEW being so close to Raw in the demo doesn't reflect highly on Raw. Especially since with the usual Raw trends, it's not going to go particularly well starting around May and there's no competition during those days. There's a good chance AEW will probably beat Raw in the demo several times outside of NFL season later this year.

The key to watch for Raw is February and March. Next week, Brock is back and they are unopposed, so they should do a better number than this week. It's also the go home show for the Royal Rumble which alongside the post-Rumble Raw tends to be one of the highest rated episodes of the year. However if post-Royal Rumble, they are doing between 1.6-1.7 million on the regular, then there's a very good chance they will hurt badly around May. May is usually decline time until July-August (which then leads to NFL and another decline). At that point, AEW beating Raw in the demo or becoming competitive more often becomes a real possibility.

Whatever the case, I don't think shitting on AEW makes much sense. It's doing very good considering I doubt their network even expected it to do 600k when it launched. It's likely surpassing expectations, especially since Warner Media like to gloat about it a lot. Warner is definitely laughing to the bank with them considering their investment into their TV contract. For AEW, it will be more interesting to see if they can demonstrate growth this year because at some point, you peak, and then you taper off. They had a lot happen last year, so it'll be interesting to see if they have peaked already and if they can maintain long-term consistency when there aren't as many big things happening like there was for them last year.


----------



## Fearless Viper

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Sorry those numbers f***ing suck. The NFL does not make that much of a difference with Raw ratings anymore no matter how many millions watch it.


Raw is consistently on the top 10 cable ratings that's what matters. Unless USA channel can find something better that can replace Raw then Raw will continue get more money.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW should be drawing more than 1 million viewers. They have no competition and a 2 hour show. 

RAW is 3 hours and goes up against the NFL. It is a miracle they are drawing 1.6-1.8 million viewers. 

Credit to Seth, Becky, etc for making the difference.


----------



## Goku

RAW should be drawing 3 mil.

There, I set my hypothetical benchmark and anything less is failure.

People and their justifications. It is what it is. Nothing should be drawing more or less than they are. If you're into speculating, then trend-lines are solid materials for analyses.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW should be drawing more than 1 million viewers. They have no competition and a 2 hour show.
> 
> RAW is 3 hours and goes up against the NFL. It is a miracle they are drawing 1.6-1.8 million viewers.
> 
> Credit to Seth, Becky, etc for making the difference.


They make no difference at all. No one does minus Brock at this point.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> They make no difference at all. No one does minus Brock at this point.


Brock wasn't on this week and they still drew a great number.

Same for Smackdown.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> Brock wasn't on this week and they still drew a great number.
> 
> Same for Smackdown.


I know you’re trolling, and I admire your dedication to this gimmick, but NO ONE is a draw. Especially not goofy Rollins. If he was, my guess is he’d be “drawing” more than 2800 people to see him live.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> I know you’re trolling, and I admire your dedication to this gimmick, but NO ONE is a draw. Especially not goofy Rollins. If he was, my guess is he’d be “drawing” more than 2800 people to see him live.


Seth is not the FOTC so you can't expect him to be a massive draw.

He does have a positive effect on ratings though.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> Seth is not the FOTC so you can't expect him to be a massive draw.
> 
> He does have a positive effect on ratings though.


He could leave tomorrow just like Banks and they wouldn’t skip a beat.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> He could leave tomorrow just like Banks and they wouldn’t skip a beat.


I disagree.


----------



## Cosmo77

look its ok your a rollins fan,but he is a geek


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> I disagree.


Well, I can’t argue that logic.


----------



## Kentucky34

KingofKings1524 said:


> Well, I can’t argue that logic.


Seth constantly changes his act to keep it fresh. Seth also appeals to real wrestling fans who appreciate workrate. 

Guys like that keep viewers tuning in no matter what.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Kentucky34 said:


> Seth constantly changes his act to keep it fresh. Seth also appeals to real wrestling fans who appreciate workrate.
> 
> Guys like that keep viewers tuning in no matter what.


“Real” wrestling fans? Hahaha, get the fuck out of here.


----------



## Spartan117

First night Raw has run unopposed since beginning of September. Ratings tomorrow will be interesting. If you look at usual bounce back levels, around 1.8-1.82 million would the normal expected recovery. Anything above that would be pretty good. Anything below around 1.78 million or would be bad. Demo should be aiming for around 0.47 if normal recovery, and something like 0.50 would be pretty solid in the current circumstances. Less than 0.45 would be bad.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Way up. Highest rated show (in the demo) on Cable last night:

Hour 1: 1.822 .45
Hour 2: 1.882 .47
Hour 3: 1.594 .47


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Highest viewership since October 4 and best demo since November 22.


----------



## Kentucky34

Wow, RAW is on fire.


----------



## RainmakerV2

1, 2 and, 3. Obviously fed is dead


----------



## ClintDagger

So it looks like football barely impacts them these days. Maybe 150k of total crossover and falling each year.


----------



## Rankles75

No NFL competition this week, so not a massive surprise. Still, good to see.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

If Ronda comes back on Saturday the RAW viewership next week will be great.


----------



## Dark Emperor

That hour 3 is a massive killer. But cant argue with their best number in almost 4 months.


----------



## Spartan117

The Boy Wonder said:


> If Ronda comes back on Saturday the RAW viewership next week will be great.


Viewership should be high next week regardless as the post-Rumble episode is usually the second highest rated episode of the year, barring some special exception like an anniversary show. If they do a number like this next week, they're in trouble over the next few months. This number is about as expected. Neither good nor bad, but the demo is significantly lower than the 4 weeks prior to NFL season beginning. Raw is still at the bottom of its trend line and seems like it will break below.

I think it inevitably dips towards the 1.6 million range by May unless we see a better recovery in the coming weeks. Next week could be a key indicator.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Yes, guys you hear that? All three hours of RAW top the night, but WWE is in trouble. Amazes me how much people love to be wrong, just like they were about this number last week. Just like they were about last week's Raw that went head to head with the NFL.

People love to be wrong and I looooove seeing it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> If Ronda comes back on Saturday the RAW viewership next week will be great.


Yeah, man. Between this number and last week head to head with an NFL Playoff game, they're on a roll. USA must be thrilled. It's stuff like this that will get them yet another massive deal with USA when the time comes.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaSlacker said:


> The problem there is WWE and AEW ain't sports. They're just live entertainment albeit scripted and ultra unsophisticated. Even with often more viewers, neither have the reach and appeal to sponsors/advertisers of an NHL, Premier League, College Basketball.
> 
> Whilst it's true they hit a in 2018-2019, you can never rely on that indefinitely. Look at WCW - yeah it had cost Turner Sports upwards of 100 million and dropped in viewership. Yet it was still higher than anything else on there and provided several hours of content. One new executive and it's sold off.
> 
> Now USA Network has been integrated with NBCSN and they have all the stuff from the WWE Network for $1 billion. Do they really need to spend another $1.5 billion just for live showings of Raw and NXT?


It wasn't one new executive it was a corporate merger between AOL and TimeWarner that caused to people to look into WCW's finances and found out it was a money sink for a vast majority of it's existence and decided that they didn't want to LOSE money on it anymore.

The TV landscape in 2001 was also a vastly different beast. Traditional TV broadcast as well as cable weren't struggling for content or viewers like they are now. Streaming has done a number on TV and "LIVE EVENT PROGRAMMING" is one of the things that TG is relying on more and more. WWE provides 52 weeks of content per year comes with a global reach and built in advertisers. Unless traditional TV sees a massive influx of viewers and affordable content live event programming and competition shows are what the networks are going to lean into.

Also NBC no longer has the NHL rights which leaves NASCAR(which traditionally doesn't run on Mondays and Tuesdays(as it's biggest sports property next to the Olympics(which are roughly two weeks of the year and generally occur every two years). Even the EPL doesn't interfere due to the time zone most games air in the afternoon.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Showstopper said:


> Way up. Highest rated show (in the demo) on Cable last night:
> 
> Hour 1: 1.822 .45
> Hour 2: 1.882 .47
> Hour 3: 1.594 .47


It's almost like not competing with the NFL makes a difference in numbers. I mean numbers improved over last week and this week's show was not particularly entertaining or interesting and was relatively weak for a "go-home" show. IMO anyway.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Everybody chant with me! "WWE is dying!"


----------



## postmoderno

Wow. So much for the gloom and doom predictions.

No clue how so many are watching this show, it bores me to tears, but clearly they are doing something right for a lot of people.


----------



## Cosmo77

Nothing was on so that rating doesnt matter,people watch Raw out of habit,


----------



## Freelancer

postmoderno said:


> Wow. So much for the gloom and doom predictions.
> 
> No clue how so many are watching this show, it bores me to tears, but clearly they are doing something right for a lot of people.


I'm willing to bet that most viewers still watch out of habit and nothing more. When I still watched regularly, I was only watching out of habit. I would fall asleep after 15 minutes but the TV was still on, so I guess I was still counted as a viewer lol. I have friends that admit Raw is garbage, but yet they still watch.


----------



## postmoderno

Freelancer said:


> I'm willing to bet that most viewers still watch out of habit and nothing more. When I still watched regularly, I was only watching out of habit. I would fall asleep after 15 minutes but the TV was still on, so I guess I was still counted as a viewer lol. I have friends that admit Raw is garbage, but yet they still watch.


I think you are right to a degree. The only people I know on a personal level who watch the show are similar to your friends. I'm certainly one who is guilty of checking in from time to time out of habit/trying to watch because I've watched since I was a kid. But I also think there are a decent amount of people who genuinely enjoy the show. The weekly thread seems to be increasing in volume, with plenty of posters reporting that they're enjoying the matches and content. I'm sure they are just a microcosm of a larger group of people who feels the same.

I understand that tastes vary, but it is just baffling to me how anyone can find much entertainment value in watching any WWE product lately. It's similar to finding out that there is a large adult cult following for the children's book "Goodnight Moon." Like they don't just read it to their kids, they genuinely find it entertaining for their own right and read it over and over. 

Nevertheless, like so many things, TV is a results oriented business, and you can't argue with the result. Whatever the reasons, a pretty large amount of people are still watching. As a result, I wouldn't expect anything about RAW (or Smackdown) to change, much less go away any time soon. Why mess with success?


----------



## Randy Lahey

postmoderno said:


> Why mess with success?


They’ve lost 60% of their demo in 2 years. That’s not success.

As explained in this thread, USA paid them to do a specific number - 0.90 to 1.10.

They are now in the 0.35 to 0.50 range.

The gap between Raw and the shows beneath them have shrunk considerably. And most importantly, the shows beneath them aren’t paid near as much to produce.

Guys like Meltzer love to say “well NHL does terrible numbers and it still got a large TV deal so wrestling is very safe”. Well, pointing to one bad TV contract and extrapolating that other similar contracts will be given out is not logical.


----------



## Kishido

They need to get rid of the 3rd hour.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> They’ve lost 60% of their demo in 2 years. That’s not success.
> 
> As explained in this thread, USA paid them to do a specific number - 0.90 to 1.10.
> 
> They are now in the 0.35 to 0.50 range.
> 
> The gap between Raw and the shows beneath them have shrunk considerably. And most importantly, the shows beneath them aren’t paid near as much to produce.
> 
> Guys like Meltzer love to say “well NHL does terrible numbers and it still got a large TV deal so wrestling is very safe”. Well, pointing to one bad TV contract and extrapolating that other similar contracts will be given out is not logical.


Lmao no one is expecting them to do over 1 in the 18-49, where do some of you get this shit from? The same guy who said Turner execs only expect 500K out of AEW so they can literally never do a bad number? Lol right.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, this upcoming July will be a FULL decade since they added a 3rd hour for Raw every week.

They’re not getting rid of it, guys. 

The hour change is no longer recent, so it’s pretty much not going anywhere (for better or worse).


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> They’ve lost 60% of their demo in 2 years. That’s not success.
> 
> As explained in this thread, USA paid them to do a specific number - 0.90 to 1.10.
> 
> They are now in the 0.35 to 0.50 range.
> 
> The gap between Raw and the shows beneath them have shrunk considerably. And most importantly, the shows beneath them aren’t paid near as much to produce.
> 
> Guys like Meltzer love to say “well NHL does terrible numbers and it still got a large TV deal so wrestling is very safe”. Well, pointing to one bad TV contract and extrapolating that other similar contracts will be given out is not logical.


There’s a reason why WWE is cutting costs everywhere it can. They don’t think they can increase their tv revenue over what they did last go round. Even a package equal to what they did last time would be hugely disappointing to shareholders. If the package was to be reduced it’s a huge disaster. So they are left to try to improve shareholder value on the cost end since it may not happen on the revenue end. Even without football Raw is nearly outside of the top 10 and surely that’s not what USA paid for. There’s nothing wrong with driving a Honda as long as you paid Honda value for it. When you paid BMW value and get a Honda you aren’t going to be happy. There’s a price point at which USA and Fox would be thrilled to get the numbers that WWE is giving them but I don’t think that’s where they are now. And I think that is what gets lost in this thread sometimes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Well, they destroyed AEW in the demo and viewers again. It's almost like the NFL Playoff game last week had something to do with AEW just barely beating Raw in the demo .44 to .43.

IMAGINE THAT!


RainmakerV2 said:


> Lmao no one is expecting them to do over 1 in the 18-49, where do some of you get this shit from? The same guy who said Turner execs only expect 500K out of AEW so they can literally never do a bad number? Lol right.


That guy literally has no clue what he is talking about. He was dead-on wrong about the last contract negotiations in which Raw scored the highest wrestling TV contract _in history_ and has doubled down on being wrong every week. I love it.


----------



## Sincere

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, this upcoming July will be a FULL decade since they added a 3rd hour for Raw every week.
> 
> They’re not getting rid of it, guys.
> 
> The hour change is no longer recent, so it’s pretty much not going anywhere (for better or worse).


IIRC, wasn't it a few years ago that it was confirmed that it was USA network that insists on keeping the third hour?


----------



## Spartan117

AEW will be close to beating WWE in another year or two with the way Raw is declining and AEW is managing to sustain its growth. Nothing about that is a positive for WWE. Trends aren't just about short-term or week to week. It's about the long-term. If Raw doesn't stabilize within the next couple months, you'll be looking at a 1.5 million range during MNF this year. None of that is good for WWE if AEW manages to keep its numbers where they are right now. What's clear is AEW is doing a much better job of retention than Raw is right now, and in the long-term, that's what can make up the difference. This could change in the coming months, but as it stands, they've shown growth YOY so now it's a matter of seeing whether they retain viewership or finally decline a little.



RainmakerV2 said:


> Lmao no one is expecting them to do over 1 in the 18-49, where do some of you get this shit from? The same guy who said Turner execs only expect 500K out of AEW so they can literally never do a bad number? Lol right.


Regardless of what their expectations may have been, AEW's contract is allegedly around $45 million a year for both Dynamite and Rampage. This is the extension, so will obviously be a larger contract than whatever they originally signed up with back when they first came with Dynamite. Just looking at what they paid AEW, it's pretty obvious their expectations can't have been that high. They definitely wouldn't be anywhere close to what numbers Dynamite is hitting right now for them.

Raw's contract is $265 million a year. If you think USA Network is so happy with its current numbers, why do you think WarnerMedia would have some high expectations for AEW exactly? They've literally got AEW for 1/6 of Raw's price, and that was the extension deal. Even under simple math, the logic doesn't hold up here.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW will never beat RAW in total viewers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rainmaker, 

When Raw signed the current extension back in 2018, they were doing between 0.90 to 1.10.

How can you argue those numbers weren’t the bare minimum of what USA expected? You really think USA paid $265 million a year with the expectation demos would fall 60% by the time the deal was over?

Clint is correct. Paying BMW prices for a BMW is fine. Paying BMW prices for a Honda isn’t going to get it done. Now USA may still want a Honda, but at Honda prices.

TNT paying Dynamite 1/6 what Raw gets, to get near Raw demos makes Raw look way overvalued, Dynamite undervalued, or both.


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> Rainmaker,
> 
> When Raw signed the current extension back in 2018, they were doing between 0.90 to 1.10.
> 
> How can you argue those numbers weren’t the bare minimum of what USA expected? You really think USA paid $265 million a year with the expectation demos would fall 60% by the time the deal was over?
> 
> Clint is correct. Paying BMW prices for a BMW is fine. Paying BMW prices for a Honda isn’t going to get it done. Now USA may still want a Honda, but at Honda prices.
> 
> TNT paying Dynamite 1/6 what Raw gets, to get near Raw demos makes Raw look way overvalued, Dynamite undervalued, or both.


RAW is still number 1 or 2 in the demo most weeks. 

It is still USA's best ticket.


----------



## Spartan117

Raw this week is loaded. Both Royal Rumble winners are advertised, and in the case of Brock they've said he's going to make his challenge for WM. On top of that, you've also had a WWE Championship change hands. In terms of story, this is the most significant show this year so I'm sure fans should be interested. This is also the post-Rumble Raw, usually the 2nd or 3rd highest rated episode of the year. This is going to be very telling of what Raw can peak at in terms of numbers. If the number is mediocre here, that is not a good sign moving forward.

On another note, Brock Lesnar is on the poster of Elimination Chamber. Not necessarily a surprise he is at the Saudi show, but it does beg the question of what he'll be doing there since his route is already set and he's no longer champ. My guess is we could possibly get a match with either Seth (who may have unfinished business with Reigns and would involve himself) or it could be Drew who was eliminated last by Lesnar and is still chasing his moment with fans. Only 3 weeks until EC so they could potentially start the angle on Raw tomorrow.


----------



## AEW on TNT

Kentucky34 said:


> RAW is still number 1 or 2 in the demo most weeks.
> 
> It is still USA's best ticket.


Your wife's segment bored me to tears


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All three hours were the highest rated again of the night, just like last week.

1.865M viewers and .47 demo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*It took Lita, Ronda, and Brock to get them back to 1.8. Jesus.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488621502949957644


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number for Raw. Down only about 30k last year, and that first hour being over 2 million is good. Still, this was a post-Rumble show with Lesnar and Rousey hyped (although 3rd hour wasn't anything special with Rousey). Plus coming off a WWE Title change. They're likely not beating this again. Certainly not getting 2 million unless something big for the post-Mania show I think.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The three most viewed hours on TV last night. Certain other wrestling shows would give their left arm for that. Not all that much behind SD, either, which is pretty shocking.


----------



## Cosmo77

you cant convince me that these numbers are good no competition on


----------



## Braden"GOAT"Walker

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Good number for Raw. *Down only about 30k last year*, and that first hour being over 2 million is good. Still, this was a post-Rumble show with Lesnar and Rousey hyped (although 3rd hour wasn't anything special with Rousey). Plus coming off a WWE Title change. They're likely not beating this again. Certainly not getting 2 million unless something big for the post-Mania show I think.


Down in the demo year-on-year by 19% though (0.57 in 2021 versus 0.48 last night)


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number. 

RAW is on fire. 

Well done Seth and Becky for putting them in this position.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Bobby stopped RAW from cratering yet again.


----------



## ThirdMan

Lita wasn't advertised, kids. She had little or no influence on the ratings. It was the post-Rumble RAW, so it did a bigger number Obviously it's gonna dip again the next few weeks given that it's on SyFy (a channel change that they didn't emphasize much last night, weirdly), but we'll see where it lands after Elimination Chamber. Regardless, a much better show than SD has been since the new Draft rosters took effect, regardless of ratings. RAW's on cable, SD's on FOX: that, and the 3-hour vs 2-hour factor, is the primary determining factor.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, Raw is a much better wrestling show than Smackdown.

You can reasonably claim that Ronda Rousey returning and Bobby Lashley winning the WWE title may have helped out with the numbers for this week.

It also helps that Raw has a much better roster with popular talents (who aren’t overpushed) such as AJ Styles, Becky Lynch, Kevin Owens, Rey Mysterio, Rhea Ripley, Riddle, and Seth Rollins on the show too.

That’s without even mentioning Randy Orton and Finn Balor who weren’t even on the show last night.


----------



## Braden"GOAT"Walker

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, Raw is a much better wrestling show than Smackdown.
> 
> *You can reasonably claim that Ronda Rousey returning and Bobby Lashley winning the WWE title may have helped out with the numbers for this week.*
> 
> It also helps that Raw has a much better roster with popular talents (who aren’t overpushed) such as AJ Styles, Becky Lynch, Kevin Owens, Rey Mysterio, Rhea Ripley, Riddle, and Seth Rollins on the show too.
> 
> That’s without even mentioning Randy Orton and Finn Balor who weren’t even on the show last night.


People evidently weren't that interested in Rousey otherwise they would've stuck around for her appearance in the 3rd hour.


----------



## DammitChrist

Eh, I’ll just chalk it as some viewers expecting to see Ronda in the 1st hour (like I did when Adam Pearce first said her name in that opening segment or when they first showed her graphic like 15 minutes in).

It doesn’t really matter to me. I see these numbers being more as a group effort nowadays over just one specific name (since nobody is really a big TV draw anymore).

The Royal Rumble bump also played a part too.


----------



## qntntgood

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Good number for Raw. Down only about 30k last year, and that first hour being over 2 million is good. Still, this was a post-Rumble show with Lesnar and Rousey hyped (although 3rd hour wasn't anything special with Rousey). Plus coming off a WWE Title change. They're likely not beating this again. Certainly not getting 2 million unless something big for the post-Mania show I think.


One for wrestling is perfect,two hours is great but three hours of wrestling is overkill.and this is one of the statements, I agree with Triple h on.


----------



## ThirdMan

Apparently the February 21st RAW is the 1500th episode, so expect them to load that one up with "Legends" coming out of the Chamber event. At least it would be justified by the number celebration, rather than just being a random ratings ploy.


----------



## ClintDagger

So outside of a heavily advertised Austin or Rock appearance this has to be their top end number. It has to be pretty sobering for them that with their biggest swing they can barely eclipse 2MM and by hour 3 they are in that 1.6MM area. It seems like 10% of their audience is probably just about out the door for good and another 10% is fading fast. You had about 200k willing to flip over to see if Ronda came out to start the show and when she didn’t they bailed, and another 200k willing to see if she popped up in hour 2. By hour 3 I guess those 400k people thought 1000 lb Sisters was the better draw.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> Rainmaker,
> 
> When Raw signed the current extension back in 2018, they were doing between 0.90 to 1.10.
> 
> How can you argue those numbers weren’t the bare minimum of what USA expected? You really think USA paid $265 million a year with the expectation demos would fall 60% by the time the deal was over?
> 
> Clint is correct. Paying BMW prices for a BMW is fine. Paying BMW prices for a Honda isn’t going to get it done. Now USA may still want a Honda, but at Honda prices.
> 
> TNT paying Dynamite 1/6 what Raw gets, to get near Raw demos makes Raw look way overvalued, Dynamite undervalued, or both.


I think USA and Fox would be and eventually will be fine with these numbers in the future albeit at a vastly renegotiated rate. I mean I’m no AEW fan in the slightest but they are clearly the better bang for your buck right now. You’re getting about 65%-70% of the value for $0.15 on the dollar with AEW. WWE is the much better brand name so that is worth something but not at a 6x or 7x premium. The next 18 months are critical for WWE because by the end of that window the new tv contracts will be signed and they really need that package to grow by 20-50% over the current to enhance shareholder value. Right now I just can’t see that happening unless an over the top suitor like Amazon or Disney comes calling. And even then that’s quite the double edged sword because going 100% behind a paywall will really shrink your audience in the long run and limit your long term potential.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Rousey is a draw, but we already know that.


----------



## JP111

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Rousey is a draw, but we already know that.


You do realize the third hour was outdrawn by last week's RAW, right? So her big return after 3 years got outdrawn by Maryse's birthday? 

Yeah, the first hour did great. But how much of that is just post-Rumble buzz? If it was all these people tuning in to see Ronda, how is she a draw if none of them cared enough to tune back in later to see her?


----------



## Zappers

The Legit Lioness said:


> *It took Lita, Ronda, and Brock to get them back to 1.8. Jesus.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488621502949957644


Brock & Lita yes.

Ronda... No.


----------



## Zappers

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Rousey is a draw, but we already know that.


Chick came out and got crickets.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Zappers said:


> Chick came out and got crickets.


*You ain't wrong.*


----------



## Zappers

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You ain't wrong.*


No seriously. Watch it again. Music hits(yes there are some legit cheers)... walks down(people just staring at her), gets in the ring. Now the crowd is just standing there, arms folded... cheers NOT matching the visuals. Obviously pumped in cheers. Announcers are so loud and over the top for nothing.

Then that all stops. You even hear boos. Then basically silence. Nobody is smiling, no facial reactions. Nobody cares. Hate to even say it. Nobody really cared when Becky walked out either.... even when Ronda flipped Becky. Nobody cared.

Until Lita. Now that was a different story. People got more into it.


----------



## DammitChrist

I love Lita, but she was NOT advertised for the show.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> I love Lita, but she was NOT advertised for the show.


Yet it got a bigger reaction with that crowd and the home viewers. That's what they should always do. Stop advertising & giving away specific people.

That's what brings the ratings in. Tune in to see what they do next. You don't want to miss something special.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Over 2 mill is solid for 1st hour but nearly a half a million turn off by final hour and a drop of 0.09 in demo when just a few weeks ago the 10pm hour was either the highest or tied for the highest.

Post Rumble always pops the crowd just not enough to get me to watch for 3 hours. Rollins was great on Saturday I enjoyed him, Roman not so much.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Zappers said:


> No seriously. Watch it again. Music hits(yes there are some legit cheers)... walks down(people just staring at her), gets in the ring. Now the crowd is just standing there, arms folded... cheers NOT matching the visuals. Obviously pumped in cheers. Announcers are so loud and over the top for nothing.
> 
> Then that all stops. You even hear boos. Then basically silence. Nobody is smiling, no facial reactions. Nobody cares. Hate to even say it. Nobody really cared when Becky walked out either.... even when Ronda flipped Becky. Nobody cared.
> 
> Until Lita. Now that was a different story. People got more into it.


I don't know how many live RAWs you've been too but I've been to a few of the 3 hour ones and by the end of the show most of the crowd is drained and silent. You start to lose your voice, etc. 

Not saying what you're saying is wrong, but I'm also saying if she came out at the end of the first hour you probably get a different reaction.


----------



## Goku

Booby Lashley draws 2 million!

Big Booby.


----------



## Zappers

RainmakerV2 said:


> I don't know how many live RAWs you've been too but I've been to a few of the 3 hour ones and by the end of the show most of the crowd is drained and silent. You start to lose your voice, etc.
> 
> Not saying what you're saying is wrong, but I'm also saying if she came out at the end of the first hour you probably get a different reaction.


Possibly. I understand you. I've been to a few RAW's myself and several PPV's. It could have added to the problem. But this is supposed to be WWE's big get. Turns out not so big. Like I was saying, you could see Lita got a better reaction then the other two.


----------



## Spartan117

Raw is on SyFy for the next 2 weeks due to Olympics, so the ratings trend essentially becomes irrelevant until its return to USA Network and the March build up to WM. Now I'm sure there will be a lot of shit talk on social media if it manages to do a bad rating because SyFy is available in a couple million more households than USA Network, but this is a pointless discourse. Demographics and audiences matter. Being available in the same number of households, or more, is not as important as channel disruption and expectations of an audience. People are creatures of habit outside of something extraordinary.

The post-Rumble episode gave us a good idea of Raw's potential peak this WM season with a number of 1.865 million. The demo number wasn't as impressive as the viewership, but it's still their strongest overall rating/viewership combo since August. The question now will be if they can hit close to or above that number again once they're back on USA, and what kind of trend we can see established. That will tell us about post-WM ratings potentially. Obviously had it remained on USA for the next 2 weeks, we could've predicted the trend for March to an extent, but that's not really going to be possible with only 2 weeks of ratings data before we're in March (the most important weeks as they come after the post-Rumble Raw), especially since their return to USA comes as the post-EC Raw. That Raw should be good for them hopefully as they should have momentum coming out of the PPV.

They key will be post-EC Raw and the Raw on February 28th. If they can maintain around or above 1.75+ million, another high hitting around 1.85 million may be possible. If they fall to 1.7 million or below, then March will likely signal a down trend incoming.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Lower than last week, but could've been worse. Only beat out by the Olympics:

1.387M viewers and .36


----------



## postmoderno

Clearly at least some viewers either don't have syfy or couldn't be bothered to turn it on. Either way it'll be interesting to see what the numbers are like once the show goes back to its normal slot. Will 2 weeks be enough to break the habit for these people or not?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Channel change hurt no doubt. I don't know if there's any prior ratings we could accurately compare this to for Raw (don't know when/if ever in past they were moved to SyFy and how much worse it did). Tough to really call it good or bad. Closest thing to compare to is when SD goes to FS1, and this did a lot better than SD does there... but I think SyFy is a bigger channel.


----------



## DaSlacker

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Channel change hurt no doubt. I don't know if there's any prior ratings we could accurately compare this to for Raw (don't know when/if ever in past they were moved to SyFy and how much worse it did). Tough to really call it good or bad. Closest thing to compare to is when SD goes to FS1, and this did a lot better than SD does there... but I think SyFy is a bigger channel.


Pretty sure this was the first time in the history of the show it wasn't on USA Network (apart from that five year period when it was on TNN/Spike TV). 

Going back even further and predecessor Monday night Prime Time Wrestling aired on USA Network from 1985 to 1993. So that's 32 years of wrestling being associated with that timeslot on that channel. 

SmackDown on FS1 will always suffer from being on a Friday night when many are out and about, as opposed to Monday, which is a quiet night in.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> Pretty sure this was the first time in the history of the show it wasn't on USA Network (apart from that five year period when it was on TNN/Spike TV).
> 
> Going back even further and predecessor Monday night Prime Time Wrestling aired on USA Network from 1985 to 1993. So that's 32 years of wrestling being associated with that timeslot on that channel.
> 
> SmackDown on FS1 will always suffer from being on a Friday night when many are out and about, as opposed to Monday, which is a quiet night in.


It was pre-empted or moved to alternate nights multiple times between 1995-1997z


----------



## Randy Lahey

I don’t think anyone in the US cares about the Winter Olympics. They did worse than Raw did last week on USA. I don’t think that’s much of a surprise given how bad hockey does.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Raw's demo last night on a different network and head to head with the Olympics (which won the night) pretty much did the same exact demo as last week's Dynamite which had a Punk/MJF Main Event.

Amazing.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I mean it isn't the worst outcome considering the channel move but last night's episode deserves less viewers after why they put out. Awful stuff.


----------



## Spartan117

DaSlacker said:


> Pretty sure this was the first time in the history of the show it wasn't on USA Network (apart from that five year period when it was on TNN/Spike TV).
> 
> Going back even further and predecessor Monday night Prime Time Wrestling aired on USA Network from 1985 to 1993. So that's 32 years of wrestling being associated with that timeslot on that channel.
> 
> SmackDown on FS1 will always suffer from being on a Friday night when many are out and about, as opposed to Monday, which is a quiet night in.


While the days are important - Monday is the biggest TV night in America - I think the popularity of the channels tends to be significant. I'll see if I can find the article, but there was a pretty good one about the popularity of channels based on programming last year. Despite being in more homes, Syfy is a lot less popular than USA. I believe USA was almost twice as popular as Syfy. Syft meanwhile is twice as popular as FS1, which should tell you all you need to know about that channel.

I think Raw is being positioned well for its return to USA in 2 weeks. They are already advertising Brock for that show. That's a 2 week lead in, and it's a show coming off a PPV (or PLE now I guess). They could have a good bounce back and the 2 week stint on Syfy shouldn't hurt it.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Smackdown was on SyFy for years. About expected viewers and perhaps a slightly higher demo. Will be interesting to see how it goes next week on there.


----------



## ClintDagger

Randy Lahey said:


> I don’t think anyone in the US cares about the Winter Olympics. They did worse than Raw did last week on USA. I don’t think that’s much of a surprise given how bad hockey does.


Even if they lost out slightly in viewership the demographics for the Olympics have to be lightyears better than WWE. I don’t know who the advertisers were last night but I’m guessing they were much better than discount cell phone service providers and bargain insurance.


----------



## DammitChrist

That number is obviously underwhelming/weak; but the show last night was kinda fun as usual (to me), so it's nice to see that they didn't go under a million viewers as I previously feared.


----------



## Fearless Viper

This is a win for both WWE and USA. They both dominated the tv ratings and that's what matters.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> That number is obviously underwhelming/weak; but the show last night was kinda fun as usual (to me), so it's nice to see that they didn't go under a million viewers as I previously feared.


They were on a different channel than usual Monday, so it's really quite good. Did the same demo as last week's Dynamite, too despite, the channel change. Strong number considering the channel change.


----------



## Flairwhoo84123

Seafort said:


> It was pre-empted or moved to alternate nights multiple times between 1995-1997z


Those stupid dog shows 😡


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491465037894012933

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

You can see the moment people realised it was on a different channel.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Erik. said:


> You can see the moment people realised it was on a different channel.


Yep 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491465041341784065

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ThirdMan

Dominik the draw. His late-father Eddie would be *so *proud.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491465037894012933
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why can't they produce breakdowns on a weekly basis?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

For the final quarter hour of the night (10:45-11:00PM) to see a bump from the previous quarter hour in a 3 HOUR show on a _different_ network than usual is absolutely fantastic. Remember, this isn't a 2 hour show. That's amazing. Well done by Rollins, Owens, Riddle, and Orton!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Didn’t realize we got a quarter hour breakdown. Without more of them we don’t have enough to really compare how they usually do, but it’s interesting to get nonetheless.

Probably would’ve started with about 200k extra viewers if people knew about the channel switch. Miz stuff with the Mysterios seemed to draw a bit, though could just be due to it being the turn of the hour (again without other breakdowns, don’t know if this is a usual trend nowadays).

Last couple of quarters did poorly. Again though, could just be the last couple of quarters normally do the worst every week abs we just don’t know (it’s probably since hour 3 is almost always the worst). I assume the breakdown was received due to the SyFy airing, so maybe we’ll get another one next week.


----------



## Zappers

I'm highly convinced if RAW went to 2 hrs, ratings would go up on USA. Probably pull in around 2.1- 2.3 for both hours. Imo, that's a fair number to start with.

Now the question. Which would be better. 8-10pm or 9-11pm? They used to be on 9-11pm for about 15 years before they switched to the consistent 3hr format.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Zappers said:


> I'm highly convinced if RAW went to 2 hrs, ratings would go up on USA. Probably pull in at least 2.25- 2.3 for both hours.
> 
> Now the question. Which would be better. 8-10pm or 9-11pm? They used to be on 9-11pm for about 15 years before they switched to the consistent 3hr format.


It absolutely would go up without a 3rd hour. The 3rd hour is always the lowest out of the three. Think there's only been a few times EVER where that wasn't the case, lol.

That being said, I don't think they see alot of increases in that last quarter hour due to it being a long ass 3 hour show. But to get a bump in that final quarter of this week in particular on a different Network than usual, is a success. I think they tried to stuff as many talents out there as possible on purpose (Rollins, Orton, Owens, and Riddle) to do just that, and it did go up.


----------



## DammitChrist

Becky Lynch and Lita were also featured in the first few minutes of the 3rd hour too 

Edit:

The 3rd hour is almost always at a big disadvantage btw.


----------



## Zappers

Showstopper said:


> It absolutely would go up without a 3rd hour. The 3rd hour is always the lowest out of the three. Think there's only been a few times EVER where that wasn't the case, lol.
> 
> That being said, I don't think they see alot of increases in that last quarter hour due to it being a long ass 3 hour show. But to get a bump in that final quarter of this week in particular on a different Network than usual, is a success. I think they tried to stuff as many talents out there as possible on purpose (Rollins, Orton, Owens, and Riddle) to do just that, and it did go up.


We(as fans) are so "used to it" by now. But when you think about it, it's like they are putting on a PPV(time wise) every week. Imho, takes away from actual PPV being special too.

Not including NXT, let's keep that separate for this convo. WWE with 4 hours of programing per week is plenty. Then every once in a while throw a special 3hr RAW. 8-10pm RAW would help with the younger audiences. Easier for parents to deal with one can only assume. This could a small part of why the 3rd hour doesn't do so well.


----------



## Sincere

DammitChrist said:


> Becky Lynch and Lita were also featured in the first few minutes of the 3rd hour too
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The 3rd hour is almost always at a big disadvantage btw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. RAW was on a completely different network this past week, and still beat EVERYTHING in the demo except for the Olympics, which is what they got moved off of their Network for the in the first place. But they still managed to beat everything else on Cable that night, despite being on a Network Raw has never been on before. Huge feather in the cap for RAW and the wrestlers and main event on that show. It's stuff like this is why RAW is going to get another huge contract when this one is up.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,601,000 - (0.44)

Last Week - 1,387,000 - (0.36)

Last Year - 1,810,000 - (0.57)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Despite being on SyFy again, ALL 3 Hours of RAW TOP the chart!:

1.602M viewers and .44 demo


----------



## InexorableJourney

Bobby Lashley has broken the ratings curve.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RAW winning the night (and in the Demo no less) while on SyFy is fucking insane.


----------



## Cosmo77

1.6 lol what a mark


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hilarious that people don't know how to read a chart. Not too much of a surprise, though.


----------



## Cosmo77

this chart is meaningless


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Yeah. It only tells us how each show did last night and is the basis for what Networks base how much money they hand out to shows, as well as advertising rates. Meaningless, though.


----------



## Cosmo77

no olympics on that chart


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I love wrestling fans.


----------



## Cosmo77

notice besides me and you no one cares about these "ratings"


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That's because they did a good number and won the night. If they were at the bottom of the chart, or near it, there'd be plenty of people in here shitting on it.


----------



## postmoderno

Cosmo77 said:


> notice besides me and you no one cares about these "ratings"


meh, I'm kind of interested every week to see how they do. I'm sure there are others who watch from afar but are mostly quiet about it. What is there to talk about at this point? Every week they'll do their 1.6-1.8, be at or top of the demo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Cosmo77 said:


> notice besides me and you no one cares about these "ratings"



Uh first off, it's 3 in the afternoon on a Tuesday, people do work and shit ya know. Secondly, there's a pretty other big story going on in wrestling right now.


----------



## Fearless Viper

So Raw outdrew Olympics?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Cosmo77 said:


> no olympics on that chart


Yes there is. Lol.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493703183314522112
45 minutes of women's wrestling featuring Rhea Ripley running the gauntlet and capping it off with an excellent showing with Bianca lead to a 300k increase. *


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> So Raw outdrew Olympics?


Looks like it. Olympics are in the 7th and 9th spots on that chart.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Showstopper said:


> Looks like it. Olympics are in the 7th and 9th spots on that chart.


Seems like a pointless move for USA to move Raw to a smaller channel.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Seth main-evnting on SyFy and beating the Olympics. Love to see it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> Seems like a pointless move for USA to move Raw to a smaller channel.


They move back to USA next week. Great showing for Raw these past two weeks on a different Network than usual.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* I love that Rhea had her star making performance and drew an awesome rating on a second rate network simultaneously.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Fearless Viper said:


> So Raw outdrew Olympics?


RaW iS dEaD.


----------



## DammitChrist

Raw has been solid since the October draft, so they deserve these decent ratings on SyFy (for 2022 standards)


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ripley the GOAT


----------



## chronoxiong

Insane how they still did the same numbers on a different network. I'm not ready to crown Rhea or Bobby or Brock for that number either. Really confused at how it stayed consistent.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> Ripley the GOAT


*Second hour was the highest rated:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493767081669582849
Rhea > Brock. *


chronoxiong said:


> Insane how they still did the same numbers on a different network. I'm not ready to crown Rhea or Bobby or Brock for that number either. Really confused at how it stayed consistent.


*Look above. Rhea brought the women in, which made all the difference.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

chronoxiong said:


> Insane how they still did the same numbers on a different network. I'm not ready to crown Rhea or Bobby or Brock for that number either. Really confused at how it stayed consistent.


It was a good show. Between the awesome opening segment with all of the EC participants, the Rhea showcase in the second hour, and a better third hour than usual. Raw's been better since the draft, but I wish they'd book RAW like that every week.

Have to admit, when I first saw that Raw was gonna be on SyFy for two weeks, I thought they might be fucked. But they did better than anyone could've expected both weeks. And I'm particularly proud of Seth for main-eventing BOTH shows. Great stuff.


----------



## fabi1982

funny how they do good numbers on a different channel, I thought probably half their audience is just old people falling asleep infront of USA? Seems like this is not the case...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

fabi1982 said:


> funny how they do good numbers on a different channel, I thought probably half their audience is just old people falling asleep infront of USA? Seems like this is not the case...


RAW is dying, bro! It's DeAd! Meanwhile, back in reality, all three hours of Raw, including the usual dead-ass 3rd hour, is literally at the top of the chart...even when on SyFy.


----------



## fabi1982

Showstopper said:


> RAW is dying, bro! It's DeAd! Meanwhile, back in reality, all three hours of Raw, including the usual dead-ass 3rd hour, is literally at the top of the chart...even when on SyFy.


love to see it =)


----------



## Goku

This is a troll thread at this point right?

There's no way 1.6 million is considered great showing??


----------



## Rankles75

Goku said:


> This is a troll thread at this point right?
> 
> There's no way 1.6 million is considered great showing??


It’s actually a pretty solid number considering it was on Syfy.


----------



## Goku

Rankles75 said:


> It’s actually a pretty solid number considering it was on Syfy.


ok, thanks for confirming.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, it’s a solid number for 2022 standards; especially since they were airing Raw on a different channel.

It would obviously be a fairly weak number if we go by all of Raw’s ratings since 1993 historically.


----------



## Goku

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, it’s a solid number for 2022 standards; especially since they were airing Raw on a different channel.
> 
> *It would obviously be a fairly weak number if we go by all of Raw’s ratings since 1993 historically.*


That's what I was thinking. I stopped watching regularly in 2014 after it was obvious they were going to turn Reigns into Cena 2.0, so I don't know the full details of where it went wrong. But it seems nobody cares about wrestling except 1-2 mil people now (including me, I mean who wants to see Reigns as Cena 2.0 when Cena 1.0 sucked so bad).

Oh right there's Brock. He hasn't been cool since 2003. So go figure.


----------



## DaSlacker

Goku said:


> That's what I was thinking. I stopped watching regularly in 2014 after it was obvious they were going to turn Reigns into Cena 2.0, so I don't know the full details of where it went wrong. But it seems nobody cares about wrestling except 1-2 mil people now (including me, I mean who wants to see Reigns as Cena 2.0 when Cena 1.0 sucked so bad).
> 
> Oh right there's Brock. He hasn't been cool since 2003. So go figure.


One of the mysteries of the universe is where did all the wrestling viewers go! DVR accounts for some, but not that many. Some of the recent YouTube videos hit 6 million on a good day, but that's from many places. Even at this time of the year in 2014 they were hitting 4.5 million on a Monday night.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493993827966750721
Women(matches)don’t draw, huh? GTFO with that garbage 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Swindle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493996189770997762
Definitely a good outing for Rhea.


----------



## Rankles75

Goku said:


> ok, thanks for confirming.


Sign of the times unfortunately, people just don’t give a damn about wrestling these days. Even with the two hottest FA signings on their roster, AEW has been lingering around the 1m mark, and they’re the hot new thing. 

WWE’s been in a creative rut for several years now, but even if they do eventually get their shit in order, I doubt it will make a significant difference.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hopefully, Rhea is Champion really, really soon. She deserves it at this point.

And for the 2nd consecutive week, they saw an increase in that last quarter hour (10:45-11:00PM) from the previous QH. Good to see. Always want to see an increase as the show goes off the air. Even more of an accomplishment for a 3 Hour show, and especially these past two weeks; a 3 hour show on a different Network than usual. Good to finish strong.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Rhea was champ last year and flopped.


----------



## Goku

Rankles75 said:


> Sign of the times unfortunately, people just don’t give a damn about wrestling these days. Even with the two hottest FA signings on their roster, AEW has been lingering around the 1m mark, and they’re the hot new thing.
> 
> WWE’s been in a creative rut for several years now, but even if they do eventually get their shit in order, I doubt it will make a significant difference.


Yes, I have been watching some AEW when I can because I love Hangman and it was cool to see Cody do his arc. But the problem is AEW is modelled after ruthless aggression era WWE, which oversaw arguably the biggest audience depreciation ever.

I don't buy that wrestling had plateaued and can never regain its old popularity. What has happened is that the level of risk companies/networks are willing to take have greatly diminished (perhaps because of the media-political climate, or perhaps because wrestling is no longer considered an effective method to mass programme an audience - late night talk shows and very bad sit-coms seems to have taken up that role).

If you're referring to Punk and Bryan, let's be real, while they were better and more interesting than most of their contemporaries during their time in WWE, what was the peak audience for their runs? 4 mil? And that was so many years ago. How many people are supposed to tune in to see them wrestle again? Here also AEW is following the WWE pattern of "oh this guy is somewhat known, let's hire him and that'll be enough to get a small ratings boost." There's no long-term hook for these things.

Moreover, that's not the mentality that made wrestling popular in any period (except perhaps Rock's return in 2011). I'm not saying it has to be crossover central or crash TV but both companies have hamstrung their booking by following patterns developed during unpopular wrestling times.


----------



## RainmakerV2

TheGunnShow said:


> Rhea was champ last year and flopped.



As a heel with no crowds. The crowd loves her. She's not a heel. Ripley vs. Becky is fresh. I'd have Ripley win it as a face then Bianca beat her maybe 6 months from now as a heel. Bianca is a much better heel.


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhea Ripley succeeded on Raw this week.

That’s for sure


----------



## TheGunnShow

Rhea peaked in 2019.


----------



## RainmakerV2

TheGunnShow said:


> Rhea peaked in 2019.


Rhea is just now peaking.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Damn, just saw that AEW rating. RAW on freaking SyFy destroyed them this week, both in overall viewers AND CRUSHED them in the Demo....on SYFY! Crazy! NBCU/USA has got to be absolutely THRILLED with this. We live in a world where the fucking 3rd hour of RAW is the third most watched hour on Cable on Monday nights only behind...you guessed it...the first two hours of RAW...all the while on SyFy! 

RAW is going to deliver another $1.5 Billion (their current contract amount)+ into WWE's bank account when the new contract comes into play when they're destroying everything else on Cable when they're on the SyFy Network. It's commmmming harder than Val Venis in 1998, folks!


----------



## Spartan117

Austin rumors are beginning to pick up steam everywhere.

I was curious how they'd do on their return to USA since they've been advertising Brock for the show for 2 weeks now, it's a post-PPV show, and there's a good chance there's a new WWE Champion crowned, so another viewership number of 1.8 million seemed possible. That's a lot of promotion and positive factors for this return to USA.

But forget all that now. I'm very interested to see if these Austin rumors have penetrated the casual fans. Makes me wonder if they could do a really high number. I would imagine when Austin does show up, they break that 2 million, but is there a chance it happens this Monday even if it's not confirmed? If people are becoming aware, and enough know of the rumors, they may very well be curious enough to check it out. Ratings this week gonna be very interesting.

Can't believe Stone Cold might be coming back. This is awesome.


----------



## Flairwhoo84123

1.6 is a big deal? I can remember when people thought the day Raw went under 2.0 was hitting bad omen territory, now it considered "great job, and look at them demos" what happen to the business, when 1.6 is a success? This a company where Hulk Hogan vs Andre rematch on TV drew something like over 30 million (and not everyone at the time had cable), or that Rock this is your life segment had a record breaking 8.4, there was a time where raw was regularly hitting 5's, 6's and 7's, the may 10, 1999 raw had a record 8.1 rating, 1.6 is success? Nitro in its dying days was around the 3.0-3.5 territory, if it wasn't for going public, the peacock deal , the saudi deal, etc. Vince would be in deep trouble.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Bobby as champion was huge for the RAW rating, be interesting to see where it heads without him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> Bobby as champion was huge for the RAW rating, be interesting to see where it heads without him.


He barely even main-evented on Raw as Champion and was more in the background than anything else.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Showstopper said:


> He barely even main-evented on Raw as Champion and was more in the background than anything else.


RAW rating have been trending downwards for years. But as far as recent history. Down under Drew, down under E, up or stable under Bobby.

Only Bobby can lay that claim.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

InexorableJourney said:


> RAW rating have been trending downwards for years. But as far as recent history. Down under Drew, down under E, up or stable under Bobby.
> 
> Only Bobby can lay that claim.


It was down under all of them. And Bobby really didn't get featured all that much in the main event of Raw even as Champion for some reason. He's not a draw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Just a reminder, we're not getting RAW's ratings today like we normally do due to President's Day yesterday. We are getting them tomorrow afternoon:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495790470756282370


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493993827966750721
> Women(matches)don’t draw, huh? GTFO with that garbage
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*I knew it without even seeing it. They'll learn one day.*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Flairwhoo84123 said:


> 1.6 us a bug deal, I can remember when people thought the day Raw went under 2.0 wasn't hitting bad omen terrible, now it considered "great job, and look at them demos" what happen to the business, when 1.6 is a success? This a company where Hulk Hogan vs Andre rematch on TV drew something like over 30 million (and not everyone at the time had cable), or that Rock this is your life segment had a record breaking 8.4, there was a time where raw was regularly hitting 5's, 6's and 7's, the may 10, 1999 raw had a record 8.1 rating, 1.6 is success , Nitro in its dying days was around the 3.0-3.5 territory, if it wasn't for going public, the peacock deal , the saudi deal, etc. Vince would be in deep trouble.


TV has changed a lot since 1999-2000. Most TV even the free to air) has seen a sharp decrease in viewership. To the point that broadcast networks consider shows that do numbers that would have gotten them cancelled a decade ago are considered successful. Sure wrestling isn't anywhere near as popular bad it used to be but you still have to account for the fact that people just consume content differently these days.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Not bad, but even with Brock winning and making it title for title, they still didn't hit 2 million. Hell, not even 1.9 million. You can see why they are being forced to give away tickets for WM for the first time ever:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496589078845923328


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

*The Post-Rumble Raw beat this Raw in overall viewers:


----------



## Cosmo77

Still didnt watch so lol at these numbers with brock and n ot much else


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,825,000 - (.51)

Last Week - 1,601,000 - (.44) 

Last Year - 1,890,000 - (.57)


----------



## postmoderno

Same old, same old.


----------



## ThirdMan

I remember the last time that Dynamite went to a different night for a few weeks, and it returned to its regular Wednesday timeslot with a lower number than when it left, at least for a while. So I figured there was a reasonable possibility that this episode of RAW would only draw in the 1.7 range. That demo was actually higher than I was expecting as well (thought it would be around .48). Interesting.


----------



## Seafort

Between Austin and (likely) Cody showing up, I would expect them to peak at 3.2M next month before going back down. By July they will be back to the 1.6 - 1.8M range.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> Not bad, but even with Brock winning and making it title for title, they still didn't hit 2 million. Hell, not even 1.9 million. You can see why they are being forced to give away tickets for WM for the first time ever:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496589078845923328


Wonder if they regret turning WrestleMania into a two night event. Last year and 2020 was understandable due to the situation. This year they will wind up making more money from ticket sales but they are swimming in money anyway. The revenue isn't worth the aesthetics and reports of freebies. 

Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar 
Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair
RK-Bro vs Seth Rollins and a mystery partner
Edge vs AJ Styles
Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens 
Becky Lynch vs Bianca Belair
Mysterios vs The Miz and Logan Paul 
Drew McIntyre vs Happy Corbin
Damian Priest vs Finn Balor vs Austin Theory 
SmackDown IC Title Ladder Match
An appearance from The Undertaker. 

As a 4.5 hour show that would have easily sold out. Trying to split that in half and throw in filler. A very difficult task.


----------



## ThirdMan

Nah, the days of RAW drawing over 3 million at any point are over. I'd say the best they can hope for is maybe a 2.2 for the post-Mania RAW. Virtually every year, that's the most-watched RAW, followed by the post-Rumble RAW.

And re: Mania, they've always comped many thousands of tickets, and done free-ticket promotions for these big stadium shows. The fact that Mania is two nights this year at full-capacity only compounds that, though. Will be interesting to see if they go back to one night at SoFi next year.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> Wonder if they regret turning WrestleMania into a two night event. Last year and 2020 was understandable due to the situation. This year they will wind up making more money from ticket sales but they are swimming in money anyway. The revenue isn't worth the aesthetics and reports of freebies.
> 
> Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar
> Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair
> RK-Bro vs Seth Rollins and a mystery partner
> Edge vs AJ Styles
> Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens
> Becky Lynch vs Bianca Belair
> Mysterios vs The Miz and Logan Paul
> Drew McIntyre vs Happy Corbin
> Damian Priest vs Finn Balor vs Austin Theory
> SmackDown IC Title Ladder Match
> An appearance from The Undertaker.
> 
> As a 4.5 hour show that would have easily sold out. Trying to split that in half and throw in filler. A very difficult task.


I really wish they'd just have WM be a 1 night 4 hour show. That won't happen now, though, because they have to get every Tom, Dick, and Jane on the show these days sadly. Not only does that make the show exponentially longer, but it waters down the quality of the show, obviously.

WM is literally the Super Bowl of wrestling. Just like in the Super Bowl; only the best of the best make it, is how I would have WM be. You know, like it used to be. Only the best of the best make it to the big show. It used to be 3 hours back in the day, but I'll be nice and extend it by 1 hour and make it a 4 hour show. Only the best make it onto the show. That's how it should be.


----------



## postmoderno

DaSlacker said:


> Wonder if they regret turning WrestleMania into a two night event. Last year and 2020 was understandable due to the situation. This year they will wind up making more money from ticket sales but they are swimming in money anyway. The revenue isn't worth the aesthetics and reports of freebies.
> 
> Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar
> Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair
> RK-Bro vs Seth Rollins and a mystery partner
> Edge vs AJ Styles
> Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens
> Becky Lynch vs Bianca Belair
> Mysterios vs The Miz and Logan Paul
> Drew McIntyre vs Happy Corbin
> Damian Priest vs Finn Balor vs Austin Theory
> SmackDown IC Title Ladder Match
> An appearance from The Undertaker.
> 
> As a 4.5 hour show that would have easily sold out. Trying to split that in half and throw in filler. A very difficult task.


That looks absolutely horrid. I've skipped out on everything since Rumble and I have zero interest in WM. It's not worth sitting through what looks like the equivalent of an 8 hour Raw for MAYBE a couple of matches somewhat worth watching.


----------



## DaSlacker

postmoderno said:


> That looks absolutely horrid. I've skipped out on everything since Rumble and I have zero interest in WM. It's not worth sitting through what looks like the equivalent of an 8 hour Raw for MAYBE a couple of matches somewhat worth watching.


Haha that card is the better condensed version. Looks like the actual two shows will feature Sheamus vs Ridge Holland, Usos vs Viking Raiders, Women's Tag Titles, Johnny Knoxville vs Sami Zayn etc.


----------



## TheGunnShow

They were doing better numbers in the Thunderdome. Goes to show you that Becky vs Bianca isn't drawing a lot of interest. Hardly anyone wants to see it again.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The whole script was leaked IN ORDER before the show and their viewership increased significantly. That's actually impressive. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496589078845923328*


----------



## FrankieDs316

Very good numbers.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Seafort said:


> Between Austin and (likely) Cody showing up, I would expect them to peak at 3.2M next month before going back down. By July they will be back to the 1.6 - 1.8M range.


3.2 million would be insane. They couldn't even hit 1.9 million this week with Brock winning and officially making it Title vs. Title. I get that Austin is way above even Title vs. Title, but that would still be crazy. Guess we'll find out.


----------



## FrankieDs316

DaSlacker said:


> Wonder if they regret turning WrestleMania into a two night event. Last year and 2020 was understandable due to the situation. This year they will wind up making more money from ticket sales but they are swimming in money anyway. The revenue isn't worth the aesthetics and reports of freebies.
> 
> Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar
> Ronda Rousey vs Charlotte Flair
> RK-Bro vs Seth Rollins and a mystery partner
> Edge vs AJ Styles
> Steve Austin vs Kevin Owens
> Becky Lynch vs Bianca Belair
> Mysterios vs The Miz and Logan Paul
> Drew McIntyre vs Happy Corbin
> Damian Priest vs Finn Balor vs Austin Theory
> SmackDown IC Title Ladder Match
> An appearance from The Undertaker.
> 
> As a 4.5 hour show that would have easily sold out. Trying to split that in half and throw in filler. A very difficult task.


I can defiantly see them going back to one night next year.


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I'm probably one of the few on here who mostly enjoyed Wrestlemania 35 (which ACTUALLY went 7.5 hours if you include the 2 hour pre-show).

That ppv didn't start to drag for me until approximately past the 5 hour mark when they still had to do those filler midcard matches from the Raw side, which I believe took place AFTER the entertaining Elias/John Cena segment.

I did enjoy the main event though (which seems to get a mostly mixed reaction).


----------



## ThirdMan

The main-event of WM35 was a perfectly-decent match, but the crowd was thoroughly exhausted by that point, and were just waiting for Becky to win (so they could cheer), because it was a foregone conclusion.


----------



## FrankieDs316

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I'm probably one of the few on here who mostly enjoyed Wrestlemania 35 (which ACTUALLY went 7.5 hours if you include the 2 hour pre-show).
> 
> That ppv didn't start to drag for me until approximately past the 5 hour mark when they still had to do those filler midcard matches from the Raw side, which I believe took place AFTER the entertaining Elias/John Cena segment.
> 
> I did enjoy the main event though (which seems to get a mostly mixed reaction).


I would of enjoyed it had I watched it from home


----------



## InexorableJourney

Last time Mania was in Texas it struggled to sell out, and they had to bring in Shane.

Texas is just a tough place to sell.


----------



## FrankieDs316

InexorableJourney said:


> Last time Mania was in Texas it struggled to sell out, and they had to bring in Shane.
> 
> Texas is just a tough place to sell.


WM17 & 25 had no problem selling out. Maybe its just a Dallas thing


----------



## ThirdMan

FrankieDs316 said:


> WM17 & 25 had no problem selling out. Maybe its just a Dallas thing


Heh. AT&T Stadium has a capacity over 100,000. The old Reliant Stadium that housed Mania 25 has an expanded capacity around 80,000 (where Mania 25 did a supposed 73,000). First one's a bit more of a challenge, especially over two nights.


----------



## InexorableJourney

WM17 had The Rock.


----------



## DaSlacker

FrankieDs316 said:


> WM17 & 25 had no problem selling out. Maybe its just a Dallas thing


17 was coming off the back of a year when kids was considered WWE cool. 25 was in the midst of Cena's commercial peak and had a strong supporting cast of names from the Monday Night Wars: Taker, DX, Jericho, Hardy Boyz, Kane, Big Show, Edge, Rey Mysterio. 

WWE is cold in 2022 and the main event has been done so many times. It's been booked twice in the past six months. I don't think Reigns, Lesnar, Rollins, Miz, Flair, Lynch, Owens, New Day, Styles have the same level of drawing power.


----------



## Spartan117

These are the paid WM attendance figures since 2008 according to their financial reports (so actual paid and not their fluffed numbers):

*WM24* - 65,700
*WM25* - 58,200
*WM26* - 64,100
*WM27* - 62,600
*WM28* - 62,400
*WM29* - 68,900
*WM30* - 59,500
*WM31* - 57,800
*WM32 (same arena as WM38)* - 79,800
*WM33* - 64,900
*WM34* - 59,900

For WM38, they have sold over 53k tickets for each night, and are en-route to a final sale of 65-70k for each night by the time the show is happening. I'm not sure how you try and pretend that is bad. Having trouble selling out doesn't mean much since they haven't legit sold out WM on most occasions by the standards of what you all are saying here (capacity of total attendance etc.). They always fluff the numbers but their financial reports usually later reveal the truth.

If WM38 manages to end up at 65-70k for each night across 2 nights, how is that an issue exactly? It will do better numbers than basically every WM aside from a couple but on 2 different nights, and at the usual inflated price. I swear a lot of you don't actually look up the numbers and just say things.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

When you have to give away free tickets for your biggest show of the year: even when you do a title vs. title match:


----------



## Spartan117

I broke down why this point of yours was flawed in another thread. They've given away free tickets before. Their average ticket price is higher this year already than most years. Not the "gotcha" you think it is. But I think it's apparent you're just upset your favorites aren't in prominent spots and are lashing out so you aren't interested in a genuine discussion. This is going to be their most successful WM ever, and handily at that. Title vs. Title is doing just fine.


----------



## postmoderno

Spartan117 said:


> For WM38, they have sold over 53k tickets for each night, and are en-route to a final sale of 65-70k for each night by the time the show is happening.


How are you arriving at your final sale projections?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> I broke down why this point of yours was flawed in another thread. They've given away free tickets before. Their average ticket price is higher this year already than most years. Not the "gotcha" you think it is. But I think it's apparent you're just upset your favorites aren't in prominent spots and are lashing out so you aren't interested in a genuine discussion. This is going to be their most successful WM ever, and handily at that. Title vs. Title is doing just fine.


Buy three tickets get one free, for the first time in WM history.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

postmoderno said:


> How are you arriving at your final sale projections?


Hope and fear:


----------



## Spartan117

postmoderno said:


> How are you arriving at your final sale projections?


Basic math and historic trends for WM. They tend to sell at least 5k tickets the week of WM. So even if they were to sell at a conservative level as of now (think worst case), they'll be over 60k by the time that week happens. 65k is actually a very safe guess for each night this year as it stands. The question is really whether they exceed expectations. They still have the potential Austin announcement to come so he may very well take them over 70k. 75-80k would be an amazing number this year but that all hinges on Stone Cold. That is a X factor impossible to determine.



Showstopper said:


> Buy three tickets get one free, for the first time in WM history.


And will still blast away previous gate records by many millions. Almost like it doesn't matter if the ASP is high. I don't know why you're so upset. Seth will likely get a decent spot and put over Cody in the midcard.


----------



## postmoderno

Spartan117 said:


> Basic math and historic trends for WM. They tend to sell at least 5k tickets the week of WM. So even if they were to sell at a conservative level as of now (think worst case), they'll be over 60k by the time that week happens.


I suspected that was the answer, but didn't want to assume 100%. 

Not saying it won't happen, but it'll be interesting to see how the sales go between now and the week of. They've invested a lot into the title v title gimmick, but don't have a lot else going on otherwise.

Agreed that a lot hinges on the Austin announcement, which is hilarious and depressing at least to me.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> Basic math and historic trends for WM. They tend to sell at least 5k tickets the week of WM. So even if they were to sell at a conservative level as of now (think worst case), they'll be over 60k by the time that week happens. 65k is actually a very safe guess for each night this year as it stands. The question is really whether they exceed expectations. They still have the potential Austin announcement to come so he may very well take them over 70k. 75-80k would be an amazing number this year but that all hinges on Stone Cold. That is a X factor impossible to determine.
> 
> 
> And will still blast away previous gate records by many millions. Almost like it doesn't matter if the ASP is high. I don't know why you're so upset. Seth will likely get a decent spot and put over Cody in the midcard.


Free tickets for a Title vs. Title match. Makes sense since making it official didn't do jack for the ratings this week, either. Raw after the Rumble drew more. That has to hurt, and thus I understand why you are in here trying to explain it all away.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

postmoderno said:


> I suspected that was the answer, but didn't want to assume 100%.
> 
> Not saying it won't happen, but it'll be interesting to see how the sales go between now and the week of. They've invested a lot into the title v title gimmick, but don't have a lot else going on otherwise.
> 
> Agreed that a lot hinges on the Austin announcement, which is hilarious and depressing at least to me.


Yep, in other words, he's pulling it out of the sky. Just like his predictions in this thread many times over which never came to fruition.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496894944241455111

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheGunnShow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496894944241455111
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Becky and Bianca lost a bunch of viewers. People are tired of it.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Spartan117 said:


> These are the paid WM attendance figures since 2008 according to their financial reports (so actual paid and not their fluffed numbers):
> 
> *WM24* - 65,700
> *WM25* - 58,200
> *WM26* - 64,100
> *WM27* - 62,600
> *WM28* - 62,400
> *WM29* - 68,900
> *WM30* - 59,500
> *WM31* - 57,800
> *WM32 (same arena as WM38)* - 79,800
> *WM33* - 64,900
> *WM34* - 59,900
> 
> For WM38, they have sold over 53k tickets for each night, and are en-route to a final sale of 65-70k for each night by the time the show is happening. I'm not sure how you try and pretend that is bad. Having trouble selling out doesn't mean much since they haven't legit sold out WM on most occasions by the standards of what you all are saying here (capacity of total attendance etc.). They always fluff the numbers but their financial reports usually later reveal the truth.
> 
> If WM38 manages to end up at 65-70k for each night across 2 nights, how is that an issue exactly? It will do better numbers than basically every WM aside from a couple but on 2 different nights, and at the usual inflated price. I swear a lot of you don't actually look up the numbers and just say things.


It’s not bad at all but some people on here wanna make it seem it’s bad because they have a narrative to keep


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Becky and Bianca lost a bunch of viewers. People are tired of it.


Nah, Becky Lynch was in the background throughout that whole match.

The loss in viewership definitely has nothing to do with her.


----------



## Kishido

Good numbers


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Really strong start for Raw, but man what a decline. Nothing really gained except Miz TV with Logan Paul, and a small gain for the Edge promo (which wasn’t that good a number anyway).

These quarters just providing even more evidence how bad the 3rd hour is for the show viewership. Which we already knew, but yeah. Like if it was just two hours looking at that quarterly breakdown, outside of the big Q1, the show was pretty consistent.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I have zero sympathy for Vince and their ratings. They provide USA with a third hour because they are getting paid an extra $500 million for that third hour (Raw gets $1.5 billion, SD gets $1 billion). So, if Vince is gonna get that extra loot, that's on him for sacrificing the overall rating and quality of the show for that extra hour. 

I'd be more disappointed that they didn't hit 1.9 million for the show just a couple of days after making Title vs. Title official, though. I'm not surprised, but I wonder if Vince and his old-ass brain is.


----------



## Not Lying

InexorableJourney said:


> RAW rating have been trending downwards for years. But as far as recent history. Down under Drew, down under E, up or stable under Bobby.
> 
> Only Bobby can lay that claim.


Not true, there was a decline post-WM last year and during his build-up for Lesnar when they had him beat Rollins/E/KO in 1 night, they drew some of their lowest ratings.




M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496894944241455111
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad we're getting these.

Q8-Q9 (begining of the 3rd hour, last week lost 150K viewers, this time it's only 10K, good retention for Becky and Bianca).

Also, probably many tuned in to see the fall-out of CJ, got it in the first segment immediately.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496894944241455111
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice viewership bump with The Miz.


----------



## Kentucky34

RAW's ratings are good.

Seth and Becky have kept the audience interested since October. It is a shame Vince won't reward them.


----------



## Spartan117

postmoderno said:


> I suspected that was the answer, but didn't want to assume 100%.
> 
> Not saying it won't happen, but it'll be interesting to see how the sales go between now and the week of. They've invested a lot into the title v title gimmick, but don't have a lot else going on otherwise.
> 
> Agreed that a lot hinges on the Austin announcement, which is hilarious and depressing at least to me.


Wrestling Observer has a ticket counter going for WM. They are already on pace to do around 70k tickets as of the most recent Meltzer update. The low end is 65k as it stands. They're currently well above 55k on both nights. Austin isn't a factor in WM's success. It's going to be huge without him. He could take them to much crazier heights though. The question is how much of an X factor he is, but we won't know that until there's some kind of announcement. If he's announced and they suddenly change trajectory and it's expected they'll reach 80k on each night, then he's basically sold them another 20k tickets. We'll see though as for all we know, ticket sales pick up before or they stay the same.



Showstopper said:


> Yep, in other words, he's pulling it out of the sky. Just like his predictions in this thread many times over which never came to fruition.


The salt. Don't worry man, Seth will put over Cody. He'll make the card. They put him there with Cesaro last year; I'm sure they can find something for him.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> Wrestling Observer has a ticket counter going for WM. They are already on pace to do around 70k tickets as of the most recent Meltzer update. The low end is 65k as it stands. They're currently well above 55k on both nights. Austin isn't a factor in WM's success. It's going to be huge without him. He could take them to much crazier heights though. The question is how much of an X factor he is, but we won't know that until there's some kind of announcement. If he's announced and they suddenly change trajectory and it's expected they'll reach 80k on each night, then he's basically sold them another 20k tickets. We'll see though as for all we know, ticket sales pick up before or they stay the same.
> 
> 
> The salt. Don't worry man, Seth will put over Cody. He'll make the card. They put him there with Cesaro last year; I'm sure they can find something for him.


LOL. This guy found a way to 'quote' me without it showing up in my notifications. Someone's scared.

How about that second hour of SD this week? A big Brock/Reigns contract signing that did sub 2 million. Between that and the thousands of free tickets being given away for this show, LOL.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Spartan117 said:


> Wrestling Observer has a ticket counter going for WM. They are already on pace to do around 70k tickets as of the most recent Meltzer update. The low end is 65k as it stands. They're currently well above 55k on both nights. Austin isn't a factor in WM's success. It's going to be huge without him. He could take them to much crazier heights though. The question is how much of an X factor he is, but we won't know that until there's some kind of announcement. If he's announced and they suddenly change trajectory and it's expected they'll reach 80k on each night, then he's basically sold them another 20k tickets. We'll see though as for all we know, ticket sales pick up before or they stay the same.


Yep just like I said. WM ticket sales are doing well, and the event will make millions of dollars for WWE.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Tickets are doing well, now don't mind us as we give away thousands of free tickets for the biggest show of the year, though. "I swear. They're doing well, though!"


----------



## FrankieDs316

They've been doing that for years. Nothing new.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They could put every title in history on the line in a match, including the one we're getting, and they'd STILL have to give away free tickets. Says it all, really.


----------



## FrankieDs316

been doing it for years


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

And with Title vs Title, you'd think they wouldn't have to. Nope. Still do.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Did anyone realistically think that they were selling 100,000 tickets to Wrestlemania when they can barely even draw 3-4k for Raw?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

KingofKings1524 said:


> Did anyone realistically think that they were selling 100,000 tickets to Wrestlemania when they can barely even draw 3-4k for Raw?


There's some in here who think so, apparently. Despite the attendance issues AND the fact that they couldn't even get 2 million to stick around for the contract signing on SD last week in the overnights.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498764363582291976

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Not exactly a "hot" Road to WM. At least not yet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498764363582291976


----------



## Not Lying

Showstopper said:


> Not exactly a "hot" Road to WM. At least not yet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498764363582291976


How could it be. They killed everyone at EC. How can I be excited to see Riddle, AJ, Edge, Rollins, Orton..knowing they mean shit and are there to hold the company till Lesnar shows up to embarass them. I don't look at anyone with credibility anymore.


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,753,000 - (.47)

Last Week - 1,825,000 - (.51)

Last Year - 1,884,000 - (.58)


----------



## TheGunnShow

Becky vs Bianca is basically the top feud on Raw and no one cares about it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> How could it be. They killed everyone at EC. How can I be excited to see Riddle, AJ, Edge, Rollins, Orton..knowing they mean shit and are there to hold the company till Lesnar shows up to embarass them. I don't look at anyone with credibility anymore.


Yeap. Everyone in the company is irrelevant outside of two people. Didn't have to be this way, but it's the way Vince went. These numbers are on him and well-deserved.


----------



## postmoderno

Showstopper said:


> Yeap. Everyone in the company is irrelevant outside of two people. Didn't have to be this way, but it's the way Vince went. These numbers are on him and well-deserved.


On the other hand, WM is on pace to sell eleventy billion tickets. So that must mean the product is super good and interesting right now.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Hour 2 was the highest hour. Riddle/Orton were in Hour 2. They need to push Riddle as the face of RAW and eventually of the company.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Good rating.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> How could it be. They killed everyone at EC. How can I be excited to see Riddle, AJ, Edge, Rollins, Orton..knowing they mean shit and are there to hold the company till Lesnar shows up to embarass them. I don't look at anyone with credibility anymore.


It’s okay. We at least have 2 BIG, MUSCULAR MEN who are ‘STARZ’ (even though they’re the only 2 guys who get super dominant booking and almost never lose).


----------



## FrankieDs316

The Definition of Technician said:


> How could it be. They killed everyone at EC. How can I be excited to see Riddle, AJ, Edge, Rollins, Orton..knowing they mean shit and are there to hold the company till Lesnar shows up to embarass them. I don't look at anyone with credibility anymore.


More people then not are excited to see AJ vs Edge.


----------



## Prosper

The Boy Wonder said:


> Hour 2 was the highest hour. Riddle/Orton were in Hour 2. They need to push Riddle as the face of RAW and eventually of the company.


Riddle? Absolutely not.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Prosper said:


> Riddle? Absolutely not.


I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's consistently one of the most over guys on the show.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499068265036795911

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Relatively good close, especially Q11. Q10 was the only real bad quarter in the final hour, and even then it was just a bunch of ads if I recall (went from Balor entrance to commercial to Priest entrance to commercial if I’m not misremembering). Could’ve maybe even been a 3rd hour that wasn’t the lowest of the three for once.

These overall numbers still aren’t good, but the show did seem to trend a bit differently than the last few breakdowns we had.


----------



## postmoderno

Looks to me like something compelling was on until 9 pm, some people tuned in at that point, saw it was the same old boring shit and most wisely turned it back off.

Really not so great outside of that temporary bump.


----------



## Not Lying

The last hour of RAW is solid and ratings reflect that. Q11 Priest/Balor did a fantastic number, they beat out Riddle/Orton and Mysterios Q7-Q9. 

Happy we're getting these quarters now. So far, looks like Q5 tends to be the highest/beg 9pm. This time it was the 6-woman tag peaking viewers.


----------



## Fearless Viper

What's their chart placement?


----------



## Spartan117

Showstopper said:


> LOL. This guy found a way to 'quote' me without it showing up in my notifications. Someone's scared.
> 
> How about that second hour of SD this week? A big Brock/Reigns contract signing that did sub 2 million. Between that and the thousands of free tickets being given away for this show, LOL.


There's a war going on. 28 of the top 30 programs were news. I see logic isn't your strongest suit. When Wrestlemania does a gate of $28-30 million, I'm sure you'll still be talking about free tickets out of bitterness.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> There's a war going on. 28 of the top 30 programs were news. I see logic isn't your strongest suit. When Wrestlemania does a gate of $28-30 million, I'm sure you'll still be talking about free tickets out of bitterness.


Nice excuse. No one said WM isn't going to make a ton of money. It always does. Especially for the supposed biggest show of the year with "biggest WM match ever." Sadly, these numbers are right in line with what they've been doing for awhile now.


----------



## DaSlacker

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499068265036795911
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1.7 million viewers and the ladies in the top rated quarter. 

Damn, WWE really has morphed into TNA from the late 2000's.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That tag match in Hour 1 (and took up more than half of Hour 1) drew one of their highest rated hour in along time, 1.910 million. Pretty much the same number the Hour 1 after EC did; 1.945.

1.775M viewers and .45 demo


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,775,000 - (.45)

Last Week - 1,753,000 - (.47)

Last Year - 1,897,000 - (.55)


So that's Smackdown, Rampage and now Raw that have all increased in ratings. Looks like the news on the war over in Ukraine is starting to lose it's luster to the viewer.


----------



## DammitChrist

Workrate drawing confirmed.


----------



## Seafort

WWE has hit a plateau. They’re holding onto that hardcore base and now just barely attriting. That’s really good news for them if they can keep this going for the next two years. The question is, we have seen them hit new plateaus before, and then eventually something happens and ratings drop another abnormal amount until a new threshold is established.


----------



## Kentucky34

Proof Rollins is who the fans want to see.


----------



## Fearless Viper

*"RAW ranked #1 for the night on the Cable Top 150 for the fourth week in a row" 

WWE is dying...*


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> WWE has hit a plateau. They’re holding onto that hardcore base and now just barely attriting. That’s really good news for them if they can keep this going for the next two years. The question is, we have seen them hit new plateaus before, and then eventually something happens and ratings drop another abnormal amount until a new threshold is established.


This is the most intriguing time of the year though. Even I watched Raw yesterday to see what they did or didn't do with Owens, Austin, Rollins, RK-Bro, Lashley and Rhodes etc. The big test will be summer to mid autumn. Last year was an anomaly due to audiences coming back coinciding with the Cena, Lesnar, Goldberg, Lynch and Edge all making returns. The year before that was a write off - though they did turn their top face heel, which is a pretty big deal. 

Looking at the lacklustre card for WrestleMania I'm not sure what they have going into the summer that will keep fans excited.


----------



## Kentucky34

Rollins and Becky will keep viewers interested.


----------



## Cosmo77

Lol at the above,Rollins doesnt even have a WM match or segment yet,and Becky is stuck with Bianca


----------



## FrankieDs316

Man this thread really doesn’t get much action when Raw gets a good number huh?


----------



## Kentucky34

Cosmo77 said:


> Lol at the above,Rollins doesnt even have a WM match or segment yet,and Becky is stuck with Bianca


That's the fault of the company


----------



## Cosmo77

Well true when they only focus on Roman and Brock


----------



## DammitChrist

Cosmo77 said:


> Well true when they only focus on Roman and Brock


I'm just grateful for Dolph Ziggler and Ilja Dragunov.

They're the only 2 male world champions worth caring about in this company (for me).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501628494262026243

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## postmoderno

FrankieDs316 said:


> Man this thread really doesn’t get much action when Raw gets a good number huh?


I used to find tracking the ratings for both this show and Smackdown to be moderately interesting, but not so much lately. It seems like the numbers have been about the same for a long time. Right now they are a bit higher due to WM. Afterward they will probably go back to their usual slightly lower figures.

The core audience is who it is, and it seems like they will watch no matter what happens. As a result there isn't much that can be said, at least imo.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth's segments grew the audience.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501628494262026243
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*The men's tag was fantastic. I saw more and more people tuning in on Twitter as the highlights were posted. *


----------



## Prosper

Man that 24/7 and Logan Paul shit really killed off a lot of the live cable viewership. Good to see people were loving the tag match though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Tag match did extremely well. Gained 200k throughout at a steady pace. The latter half of the show things fell apart. Seems the Austin speculation might’ve helped that final quarter a bit, but that third hour just drags the numbers down like an anchor.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Thus far, Raw is the only wrestling show of the week to be number 1 in it's slot:


----------



## Erik.

Showstopper said:


> Thus far, Raw is the only wrestling show of the week to be number 1 in it's slot:


Dynamite was actually number 1 too.

Good week for wrestling, tbh. Nice to see.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Erik. said:


> Dynamite was actually number 1 too.
> 
> Good week for wrestling, tbh. Nice to see.


Imagine how much higher Raw would be without a third hour. Only wrestling show that has to deal with that and go an hour later into the evening than the other shows and go against the NFL every year. Actually pretty amazing considering all of that when you think about it. And it's the highest rated wrestling cable show, too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

@erik but I agree it is great to see. Wrestling will never do 80's or 90's ratings obviously, but they're still at the top of their respective charts on their nights. So, that's pretty cool.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This is from the guy who posts the ratings every week and analyzes them. I tried telling people this...🤷‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502405816028221443


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503824624534097927


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hour 3 actually did better in the demo than Hour 1, which is surprising. Good for Rollins and KO, I guess:


----------



## TheGunnShow

Becky vs Bianca is basically the top feud on Raw right now and no one cares. They did better ratings in the thunderdome.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Hour 3 actually did better in the demo than Hour 1, which is surprising. Good for Rollins and KO, I guess:


That is good news for the absent Cody Rhodes too 



TheGunnShow said:


> Becky vs Bianca is basically the top feud on Raw right now and no one cares. They did better ratings in the thunderdome.


Nobody in the WWE who's full-time is a big TV draw, 'm8.' This isn't anything new, dude.


----------



## Not Lying

They're really doing the same with no WWE title build and their top guy directionless. 
What a shitty build to WM besides Becky/Bianca, they're carrying this show. 



TheGunnShow said:


> Becky vs Bianca is basically the top feud on Raw right now and no one cares. They did better ratings in the thunderdome.


Wrong.


----------



## TheGunnShow

The Definition of Technician said:


> They're really doing the same with no WWE title build and their top guy directionless.
> What a shitty build to WM besides Becky/Bianca, they're carrying this show.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.


It's a fact that ratings are down from last year.


----------



## Not Lying

TheGunnShow said:


> It's a fact that ratings are down from last year.


 You can blame Lesnar for that.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Raw did a good number. That means this thread won't have much activity this week.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Adrenaline
In my soul
No one new watched
For a potential debut of Cody Rhodes





FrankieDs316 said:


> Raw did a good number. That means this thread won't have much activity this week.


Wrestlemania just 2 weeks out. Potential major debut could have happened. Getting paid a billion dollars. 30 year existence of said show. Way below 2 million viewers. Real good. 
That bar keeps dropping every year. But they are making money hand over fist so who cares, right?


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,700,000 - (.48)

Last Week - 1,775,000 - (.45)

Last Year - 1,843,000 - (.56)


----------



## Cosmo77

lost a lot of viewers year to year


----------



## FrankieDs316

ShadowCounter said:


> That bar keeps dropping every year. But they are making money hand over fist so who cares, right?


Exactly. WWE is making money. That’s what happens in business.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> This is from the guy who posts the ratings every week and analyzes them. I tried telling people this...🤷‍♂️
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502405816028221443


It would take Roman, Randy, Seth, Becky, Charlotte, and AJ to hold out at a WrestleMania and stand firm on unionization. Otherwise WWE is going to continue to devote 20% or less of their revenue to wrestlers, while NFL and NBA devote 50%.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

1.70M with a sub .5 demo on the Road to Wrestlemania is a "good number". The bar lowers every day/month/year.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Adrenaline

In my soul

Gonna pass 2 mil 

With Cody rhodes


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> This Week - 1,700,000 - (.48)
> 
> Last Week - 1,775,000 - (.45)
> 
> Last Year - 1,843,000 - (.56)



Still can’t beat the Thunderdome 😂


----------



## DaSlacker

Raw from May 1st onwards will be the ratings to take an interest in. Basically the post Wrestlemania lull. At the minute they'll hold steady due to WM intrigue and then the fallout from whatever happens during that weekend. Then it's back down to reality.

Think it was in 2018 when they went from regular 3.1- 3.3 million and 3.9 for special episodes to regularly 2.4 - 2.6 million by the end of the summer. 2019 they were boosted by the wild card thing, intrigue from Heyman running the show and Reigns mystery attacker. 2020 was just a mess but not quite as bad as it had been when covid hit. 2021 was an anomaly due to fans and stars returning. 

Vince has put so much effort into Reigns vs Lesnar and so little effort into everything else that I'm not sure what they have for after the unification.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504236318003539969

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

@Showstopper is going to like this 

Edit:

That's a good week for Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens (as well as the obvious possibility of Cody Rhodes showing up for both of those increases too)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Still can’t beat the Thunderdome 😂


They beat AEW pretty damn handily every week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> @Showstopper is going to like this
> 
> Edit:
> 
> That's a good week for Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens (as well as the obvious possibility of Cody Rhodes showing up for both of those increases too)


Pretty amazing when you consider that Rollins and Owens have faced eachother alot over the past several years. Love it.


----------



## Spartan117

DaSlacker said:


> Raw from May 1st onwards will be the ratings to take an interest in. Basically the post Wrestlemania lull. At the minute they'll hold steady due to WM intrigue and then the fallout from whatever happens during that weekend. Then it's back down to reality.
> 
> Think it was in 2018 when they went from regular 3.1- 3.3 million and 3.9 for special episodes to regularly 2.4 - 2.6 million by the end of the summer. 2019 they were boosted by the wild card thing, intrigue from Heyman running the show and Reigns mystery attacker. 2020 was just a mess but not quite as bad as it had been when covid hit. 2021 was an anomaly due to fans and stars returning.
> 
> Vince has put so much effort into Reigns vs Lesnar and so little effort into everything else that I'm not sure what they have for after the unification.


It comes down to whatever impact Cody may have for them in terms of maybe getting some diehards to tune in. If no impact, then we'll probably be in the 1.6-1.7 million range very soon. It could create a bad downtrend, which Raw was already doing from October onward where their decline seemed to accelerate. I think the big angle coming out of WM is almost assured to be some kind of new title belt on Raw with us maybe getting Cody as the inaugural champion. Funnily enough, a lot could hinge on his shoulders here despite being new to the show.

It should be noted Austin is an X factor here. His comments almost make it seem like this Owens thing is not a one and done if it goes well. His return would change things a fair bit. I could see Raw surviving with a higher baseline if he's around in a proper capacity.

Aside from the Brock Rumble win for the post-Royal Rumble show and his WWE title win for the post-EC show, Raw has averaged 1.708 million viewers this year (excluding the 2 Syfy shows from this average). Those 2 Brock fallout episodes remain the only 2 episodes this year to break the 1.8 million barrier for Raw (1.865 million for post-Rumble and 1.825 million for post-EC). There are only 2 Raws to go now then it's post-WM. April through to the end of June is usually not that kind of WWE ratings. Barring some kind of change or positive impact as a result of Austin or Cody, I'd expect Raw will be sub-1.7 million very soon and the 1.6s will be the new normal before MNF arrives.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Certain folks who predicted Raw's ratings would go in the shitter certainly have been gone for awhile only to come back with more BS. What certain diatribes leave out is that every week except for one, all 3 hours of RAW have finished in the top 3 slots in the Cable chart every week, and that's without Brock all but 2 of those weeks. It's almost like some folks enjoy being wrong all the time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HUGE W: 
1.769M viewers and .50 demo
Up 69K viewers from last week, and up .02 in the Demo from last week.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Highest demo in a month.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506363377387511818


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HUGE W:
1.769M viewers and .50 demo
Up 69K viewers from last week, and up .02 in the Demo from last week.










Edit: Sorry for this double post. Laptop flipped out for some reason.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Cody Cody cody


----------



## Fearless Viper

What happened to the 2nd 3rd hours? Usually its the opposite.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That Cody bait is actually working. The show opened with his name being chanted.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Look at that Male demo last night:

Hour 1: .67
Hour 2: .74
Hour 3: .69

Now, that's domination:










Seth being all over the show puts a huge smile on my face, too. What a great week.


----------



## Seafort

I will say that visually, the show looked better. They pulled way back on the mood lighting and showed off the crowd. It makes it look so much better.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Huge number for Raw last night. Which means this thread once again wont be very active this week.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'm happy for Raw doing well in the ratings (in spite of Brock Lesnar holding the WWE championship hostage and being absent yet again years later) because the show has mostly been really solid ever since the October draft last year.


----------



## chronoxiong

Seth Rollins chasing for a WM moment = ratings


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,769,000 - (.50)

Last Week - 1,700,000 - (.48)

Last Year - 1,816,000 - (.53)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This doesn't have anything to do with ratings per se, but found it interesting about the fantastic Rollins/Styles match:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506379184511324160


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*As I suspected, the major spikes were from Codywatch during Seth's segments. They didn't watch most of the match, but tuned in for the afterbirth. Good on the women for maintaining interest though. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506688224311144450*


----------



## DammitChrist

You’re going to like this quarterly breakdown, @Showstopper !

Seth Rollins, Cody Rhodes, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, and Becky Lynch all had a really good week (overall viewership-wise or young demographic-wise)


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

The Legit Lioness said:


> *As I suspected, the major spikes were from Codywatch during Seth's segments. They didn't watch most of the match, but tuned in for the afterbirth. Good on the women for maintaining interest though.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506688224311144450*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506688917252235265

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> You’re going to like this quarterly breakdown, @Showstopper !
> 
> Seth Rollins, Cody Rhodes, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, and Becky Lynch all had a really good week (overall viewership-wise or young demographic-wise)


Love it! Best part is Seth's segments have been doing well for awhile now, even before the WM build. So, this is more continued fantastic news.

It's no shock that going into the biggest show of the year; the two biggest topics are who is Seth's opponent gonna be and when is Cody gonna debut. The three title matches are barely even getting mentioned which is mind-blowing.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also good to see that the Rollins/AJ in-ring promo did the highest Quarter-Hour of the night; overall and in the demo!

Also good to see that Rollins/AJ match brought the audience back after they tuned out after the 24/7 shit.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth still drawing.

Love to see it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> This Week - 1,769,000 - (.50)
> 
> Last Week - 1,700,000 - (.48)
> 
> Last Year - 1,816,000 - (.53)



Lol still can’t beat the Thunderdome


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Lol still can’t beat the Thunderdome


Thunderdome was 2 years ago and fans were at home. Why would they beat it? They sure as hell come closer than any AEW program, LOL. Enjoy that trash-ass .38 demo from last week. LOL.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> Thunderdome was 2 years ago and fans were at home. Why would they beat it? They sure as hell come closer than any AEW program, LOL. Enjoy that trash-ass .38 demo from last week. LOL.


Thunderdome was 1 year ago. It's not a bad number, but the fact that they can't beat it shows a lack of interest on the Raw side for WM. Hardly anyone wants to see Becky vs Bianca again.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> Thunderdome was 1 year ago. It's not a bad number, but the fact that they can't beat it shows a lack of interest on the Raw side for WM. Hardly anyone wants to see Becky vs Bianca again.


All 3 hours are still the highest rated on Monday Nights except for when the NFL is on in the Fall. And despite being 3 hours, something Dynamite and SD aren't, it's still the second highest rated wrestling show that exists, only behind SD, which is on Cable and only 2 hours. AEW fans sure as shit shouldn't be talking shit.

As far as WM goes, they're doing pretty good considering the "RAW World Champion" is always on SD and hasn't been on RAW in like a month. The show has no World Champion, and still destroys every other wrestling show that exists on planet earth outside of SD, which has multiple built-in advantages over RAW; mentioned above.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Showstopper said:


> All 3 hours are still the highest rated on Monday Nights except for when the NFL is on in the Fall. And despite being 3 hours, something Dynamite and SD aren't, it's still the second highest rated wrestling show that exists, only behind SD, which is on Cable and only 2 hours. AEW fans sure as shit shouldn't be talking shit.
> 
> As far as WM goes, they're doing pretty good considering the "RAW World Champion" is always on SD and hasn't been on RAW in like a month. The show has no World Champion, and still destroys every other wrestling show that exists on planet earth outside of SD, which has multiple built-in advantages over RAW; mentioned above.


I never said it was a bad number, just that they can't beat Thunderdome numbers, which they should be able to.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

TheGunnShow said:


> I never said it was a bad number, just that they can't beat Thunderdome numbers, which they should be able to.


Why should they be able to? That makes no sense. More fans were at home watching then since they weren't allowed in the arenas.


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Why should they be able to? That makes no sense. More fans were at home watching then since they weren't allowed in the arenas.


He's technically admitting that ratings were even higher during Rhea Ripley's world title reign last year


----------



## FrankieDs316

While I agree Seth vs Cody is one of the most talked about programs going into WM, it’s just false to say nobody is talking about Brock vs Roman or Austin and KO, or AJ vs Edge. They are being talked about just as much as Cody and Seth.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

LOL. no, they're not.

Anyway, a .5 demo is amazing for a 3 hour show. Not sure how SD's demo does, but Raw's demo absolutely DESTROYS AEW's, and that includes this week. The fact that they did a .5 demo with Seth all over the show makes it even better. N0t A dRaW.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seth is the best tv draw in the industry.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> LOL. no, they're not.


Yes they are. I know you want to stay otherwise cause Seths your boy but people are talking about a lot more then just his WM program.


----------



## DammitChrist

FrankieDs316 said:


> Yes they are. I know you want to stay otherwise cause Seths your boy *but people are talking about a lot more then just his WM program.*


Yea, that's true.

People are also talking about AJ Styles vs Edge too


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Yes they are. I know you want to stay otherwise cause Seths your boy but people are talking about a lot more then just his WM program.


Not really. The fact that this is even a discussion is pathetic considering we are talking about the title matches here and one of those matches has BOTH titles involved. It shouldn't even be a discussion.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That Cody bait is actually working. The show opened with his name being chanted.*


 It's easy to get the "smark" portion of the audience to chant for random things that the average fan doesn't care about.


----------



## FrankieDs316

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, that's true.
> 
> People are also talking about AJ Styles vs Edge too


Thats what I said


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> Not really. The fact that this is even a discussion is pathetic considering we are talking about the title matches here and one of those matches has BOTH titles involved. It shouldn't even be a discussion.


Your'e making it a discussion because you're lying about it not being talked about much.


----------



## Kentucky34

FrankieDs316 said:


> Your'e making it a discussion because you're lying about it not being talked about much.


Nobody cares about Lesnar vs Reigns in 2022. Heck very few cared in 2015. 

It is Rollins that the fans really care about. The numbers don't lie.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Your'e making it a discussion because you're lying about it not being talked about much.


Not really. But Vince is your boy, so I understand why you feel the way that you do.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> Not really. But Vince is your boy, so I understand why you feel the way that you do.


Yes really. Roman vs Lesnar gets talked about a lot when smackdown is on cause that’s where they are building up the match. To say that or other matches are not getting talked about is a lie.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Kentucky34 said:


> Nobody cares about Lesnar vs Reigns in 2022. Heck very few cared in 2015.


More care then not. People on here represent a very very small % of the audience.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Yes really. Roman vs Lesnar gets talked about a lot when smackdown is on cause that’s where they are building up the match. To say that or other matches are not getting talked about is a lie.


"When SD is on..."


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> More care then not. People on here represent a very very small % of the audience.


Except it's not just here.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> Except it's not just here.


Twitter and social media is not real life either buddy. And yeah when smackdown is on. You know the highest rated wrestling show in the world.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Twitter and social media is not real life either buddy. And yeah when smackdown is on. You know the highest rated wrestling show in the world.


Yes. Nothing matters. Twitter, social media in general, this place and other forums, literally thousands and thousands of people. Nothing matters.

I just went to the SD section with SD on later today, and there is a grand total of 2 posts in that thread and the thread was created 3 days ago.  But again, none of it matters. Imagine being this lost.


----------



## Kentucky34

FrankieDs316 said:


> More care then not. People on here represent a very very small % of the audience.


Seth is drawing the highest rated segments and best demos.

Lesnar vs Reigns is an afterthought. It is old news. Only Vince wants to see.


----------



## DammitChrist

FrankieDs316 said:


> Twitter and social media is not real life either buddy. And yeah when smackdown is on. You know the highest rated wrestling show in the world.


Quantity does not equate to quality, dude.

If it did, then Dynamite, Rampage, and Raw (occasionally) would get 2+ million views instead since those shows are generally really good.

Smackdown is honestly the worst (televised) weekly wrestling program that I watch out of the main 3 promotions.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> I just went to the SD section with SD on later today, and there is a grand total of 2 posts in that thread and the thread was created 3 days ago. But again, none of it matters. Imagine being this lost.


Exactly none of this matter. This site doesn’t even represent about .1% of the audience. Also come back to me when the show is actually starts when it come to that SD discussion


----------



## FrankieDs316

Kentucky34 said:


> Seth is drawing the highest rated segments and best demos.
> 
> Lesnar vs Brock is an afterthought. It is old news. Only Vince wants to see.


Brock Lesnar is facing himself at WM?? Hahaha


----------



## FrankieDs316

DammitChrist said:


> Smackdown is honestly the worst (televised) weekly wrestling program that I watch out of the main 3 promotions.


Not even close


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Exactly none of this matter. This site doesn’t even represent about .1% of the audience. Also come back to me when the show is actually starts when it come to that SD discussion


Except, like I said earlier, it's alot more than just this site. The SD thread is relevant. That match is being billed as the biggest match in WM history, and no one is excited enough to post in it even on the day of the show.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> Except, like I said earlier, it's alot more than just this site. The SD thread is relevant. That match is being billed as the biggest match in WM history, and no one is excited enough to post in it even on the day of the show.


Unless you are referring to just this site alone you are wrong. A majorly of fans are excited for Brock vs Roman.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Unless you are referring to just this site alone you are wrong. A majorly of fans are excited for Brock vs Roman.


I'm not referring to just this site alone. Everything points to very little excitement towards all of the title matches from multiple forms of sites and social media. Sorry Stone Hot.


----------



## DammitChrist

FrankieDs316 said:


> Not even close


Sure, the "wrestling" program that is recently known to air episodes where they can go *up to 60 minutes* into the show with only ONE match taking place (which has happened multiple times for Smackdown) is apparently 'not even close' to being the worst televised wrestling show.

Seriously, I'd like to see you justify Smackdown being a better show than Dynamite, NXT UK, Raw, the NJPW events, or even Rampage.


----------



## Kentucky34

FrankieDs316 said:


> Twitter and social media is not real life either buddy. And yeah when smackdown is on. You know the highest rated wrestling show in the world.


RAW has a third hour and is on cable.

It draws more impressive numbers than Smackdown.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> I'm not referring to just this site alone. Everything points to very little excitement towards all of the title matches from multiple forms of sites and social media. Sorry Stone Hot.


The women title matches maybe but not Brock vs Roman majority of fans are excited for it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> The women title matches maybe but not Brock vs Roman majority of fans are excited for it.


Sure, they are. That's why it's not showing much at all anywhere or even a ratings spike.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Showstopper said:


> Sure, they are. That's why it's not showing much at all anywhere or even a ratings spike.


Smackdown is the highest rated show and that’s where they’ve been building up the feud.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

FrankieDs316 said:


> Smackdown is the highest rated show and that’s where they’ve been building up the feud.


Of course it's the highest rated. It's the only show on Network television.


----------



## DammitChrist

FrankieDs316 said:


> Smackdown is the highest rated show and that’s where they’ve been building up the feud.


Did you really just no-sold my previous statement about quantity not equating to quality?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

1.979M viewers and .55

Almost as good as SD itself!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500


----------



## Erik.

This Week - 1,979,000 - (. 55) 

Last Week - 1,769,000 - (.50) 

Last Year - 1,701,000 - (.56)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Good number for today's day and age, but still depressing that on the go-home show to WM with everyone from both brands on the show, they still can't crack 2 million.


----------



## RLT1981

i'm sure showstopper won't like this rating and cry about it like he always does.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Solid number, about what I'd expect for the go-home Raw show to Mania. Maybe a bit underwhelming with everything factored in, but looks like as usual it's the 3rd hour that really drags things down.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*No Seth and RAW did almost 2 mil LMFAO. *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500
*That's what happens when they bring in the REAL Needle Movers to save the show. You're welcome. 








*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No Seth and RAW did almost 2 mil LMFAO. *
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500
> *That's what happens when they bring in the REAL Needle Movers to save the show. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Seth was on the show. As a matter of fact, his match and storyline is the only one people are even interested in going into WM. They can put all the titles in the world in the Brock/Reigns match and people still won't give a single fuck about them.  

Dude has been World Champion for almost 2 years and still barely does any better than last week's Raw. Hilarious.


----------



## Kentucky34

Down in the demo year on year.

Not great for a go-home show for the biggest wrestling event of the year. They also had everyone on the show.

Last week's number was more impressive.


----------



## RLT1981

Kentucky34 said:


> Down in the demo year on year.
> 
> Not great for a go-home show for the biggest wrestling event of the year. They also had everyone on the show.
> 
> Last week's number was more impressive.


show would draw attitude era numbers if Seth was Champion!


----------



## RLT1981

The Legit Lioness said:


> *No Seth and RAW did almost 2 mil LMFAO. *
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508899170995818500
> *That's what happens when they bring in the REAL Needle Movers to save the show. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Roman reigns did'n draw shit Brock is the draw after Mania ratings go back down and you will still be in denial.

You are such a sad little Fanboy.


----------



## Rankles75

What were the numbers for the WM go home RAW last year?


----------



## ThirdMan

Rankles75 said:


> What were the numbers for the WM go home RAW last year?


1.701 million viewers, with a 0.52 in the key demo. It was up against the NCAA Basketball Tournament finals.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Amazing number by 2022 Cable TV standards. It's as good as it gets except for a post mania show.

It would be over 2m if not for the 3rd hr!


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Hour 2 is the highest number so far this year for RAW (2.100). Hour 2 had the Women's Tag Team Match.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Seth was on the show. As a matter of fact, his match and storyline is the only one people are even interested in going into WM. They can put all the titles in the world in the Brock/Reigns match and people still won't give a single fuck about them.
> 
> Dude has been World Champion for almost 2 years and still barely does any better than last week's Raw. Hilarious.


*Imagine posting this bullshit when a Roman and Sasha appearance gave them their highest viewership since Summerslam 🤣🤣🤣. Hold the L. Firmly grasp it. No one gives a single a fuck about Rollins. He's being carried by an AEW cast-off that hasn't debuted yet. Hang those record low ratings on your wall as a perpetual reminder of Seth's relevance without the man who ended racism.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Imagine posting this bullshit when a Roman and Sasha appearance gave them their highest viewership since Summerslam 🤣🤣🤣. Hold the L. Firmly grasp it. No one gives a single a fuck about Rollins. He's being carried by an AEW cast-off that hasn't debuted yet. Hang those record low ratings on your wall as a perpetual reminder of Seth's relevance without the man who ended racism.*


Here's the chart for this past week's SD, you know, Roman's show. Same finish as always, 2nd to last place, as ALWAYS. But hey, at least Reigns can beat the shitty CW Network with ease. Impressive stuff. Might have to stop by the SD Ratings thread and freshen that thread up a bit. Roman Reigns, and The Next Rock; Sasha Banks, getting their ass beat by ABC, NBC, CBS, ah shit, every Network other than CW. The Big Draws!:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The demo SD did this week (.49) was the lowest demo since the fans came back, excluding Christmas Eve. FOH.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Imagine doing your lowest demo since the fans came back less than 2 weeks before WM, on a show with BOTH World Champions.

 

What a fucking FLOP.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> Here's the chart for this past week's SD, you know, Roman's show. Same finish as always, 2nd to last place, as ALWAYS. But hey, at least Reigns can beat the shitty CW Network with ease. Impressive stuff. Might have to stop by the SD Ratings thread and freshen that thread up a bit. Roman Reigns, and The Next Rock; Sasha Banks, getting their ass beat by ABC, NBC, CBS, ah shit, every Network other than CW. The Big Draws!:


*Yet they STILL CARRIED this shit show that Rollins TANKS with his matches. THE RATINGS GODS DID THE IMPOSSIBLE! 

And I know you're FURIOUS because you just triple posted, LMAO 🤣*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

They carried it alright. Next Rock and Big Flop carried it to the lowest demo less than 2 weeks before the biggest show of the year. I couldn't write a better script if I tried. Meanwhile, on last weeks Raw, Seth was in the highest QH of the entire 3 hour show.  This was too easy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Showstopper said:


> They carried it alright. Next Rock and Big Flop carried it to the lowest demo less than 2 weeks before the biggest show of the year. I couldn't write a better script if I tried. Meanwhile, on last weeks Raw, Seth was in the highest QH of the entire 3 hour show.  This was too easy.


*Just keep embarrassing yourself. It's fun for me.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914143121883142
@#BadNewsSanta * 







*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Just keep embarrassing yourself. It's fun for me.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914143121883142


Way to avoid the SD number that did the worst demo since fans came back. I don't blame you. Hell, RAW beat SD last week in the demo, and Seth was all over RAW last week, so I don't blame you for wanting to avoid that.


----------



## Dark Emperor

There is no point arguing about ratings with Legit Lioness. Takes everything way too serious. Thinks Sasha is a God and will give credit for anytime there is a rating bump even if there are several other people in the same segment and hour.

Basically Sasha is the biggest draw today even though the Online metrics, WWE push and merch sales show otherwise.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Just keep embarrassing yourself. It's fun for me.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914143121883142
> @#BadNewsSanta *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


You mean he did the highest number in Q5?

Color me shocked. 😲


----------



## Dark Emperor

#BadNewsSanta said:


> You mean he did the highest number in Q5?
> 
> Color me shocked. 😲


To be fair, it is the build to the biggest match in WWE history!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Dark Emperor said:


> To be fair, it is the build to the biggest match in WWE history!


On the most "stupendous" Wrestlemania of all time!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> You mean he did the highest number in Q5?
> 
> Color me shocked. 😲


*BY FAR THE PEAK! That's two L's in 1 day Santa. It's a buy one get one free special!*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All this discourse when last week's RAW demo was .50, and this week's was .55.  I mean, really? Can't we all just get along for once?


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> Seth was on the show. As a matter of fact, his match and storyline is the only one people are even interested in going into WM. They can put all the titles in the world in the Brock/Reigns match and people still won't give a single fuck about them.
> 
> Dude has been World Champion for almost 2 years and still barely does any better than last week's Raw. Hilarious.


Dude, did you know that Smackdown’s overall rating STILL did worse compared to last year’s ThunderDome episode, and that they lost 17% of the young demographic viewership compared to last week? 

That’s with BOTH of the 2 nonexistent ‘needle movers’ being heavily advertised too.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Bobby Lashley returns and the ratings skyrocket, no surprise here.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

IWC: Nobody cares about Reigns vs Lesnar

RAW Ratings: Highest number since August

Y'all need to accept you live in a bubble on here and most fans care about Reigns vs Lesnar.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, did you know that Smackdown’s overall rating STILL did worse compared to last year’s ThunderDome episode, and that they lost 17% of the young demographic viewership compared to last week?
> 
> That’s with BOTH of the 2 nonexistent ‘needle movers’ being heavily advertised too.


You treat SmackDown as if it's a different company when it's run by the same guys, it's not in competition with RAW man. 

Who cares anyway? SmackDown sucking has nothing to do with RAW sucking.


----------



## Spartan117

*Raw Ratings during RTWM37 (2021) and RTWM38 (2022):

January 2021 Avg:* 1.905 million
*January 2022 Avg: * 1.718 million

*February 2021 Avg:* 1.826 million
*February 2022 Avg (with Syfy): *1.641 million
*February 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.825 million

*March 2021 Avg:* 1.828 million
*March 2022 Avg: * 1.806 million

*RTWM 2021 Avg:* 1.841 million
*RTWM 2022 Avg (with Syfy): * 1.721 million
*RTWM 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.763 million

February only had 4 shows so obviously the Syfy shows messed it all up by messing with the average. So 4 shows average with Syfy or 2 shows average without it, including post-EC Raw.

Raw passed the 1.8 million mark twice since the beginning of this year: when Brock won the Royal Rumble and when Brock won the WWE Championship at Elimination Chamber. They did almost 2 million yesterday when Reigns and Brock showed up. Without those 3 shows and Syfy, the average is around 1.715 million which I think is probably the kind of number to expect beyond WM in April (post-WM Raw should do around 2 million).

Overall RTWM this year only had a 4% decline YOY so this is pretty decent. It seems the decline that began a few years is beginning to stabilize so WWE could realistically be nearing their floor for the time being. Key point now will be what happens after WM as April-June is usually a pull back. I would say staying in the 1.7-1.75 million range is key, with a sustained drop below it likely signaling that they will be at the 1.5-1.6 million range come NFL season later this year.

We are about to see how big of a deal Cody actually is. Very rare that you get a setup like this to see how much of an impact a star actually has. A lot of this is really going to come down to him and his reintroduction to Raw. We already know from current trends that with the current Raw roster, that they'd likely fall to the 1.7 million range in April and likely below. So if Raw actually does solid numbers beyond that, I could see WWE giving Cody a massive push because it'll be clear where the uptrend is coming from. I believe the plan is to bring another world title to Raw according to rumors so a big story angle like that could also help generate short-term interest too.


----------



## Dark Emperor

InexorableJourney said:


> Bobby Lashley returns and the ratings skyrocket, no surprise here.


FACTS, how could i forget. Good job Bobby.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> IWC: Nobody cares about Reigns vs Lesnar
> 
> RAW Ratings: Highest number since August
> 
> Y'all need to accept you live in a bubble on here and most fans care about Reigns vs Lesnar.


“Most” fans care, but yet the last Smackdown episode lost 17% of the demographic numbers compared to last week, and still did worse compared to last year’s ThunderDome episode.

Let’s also ignore the fact that they crammed everything in last night’s Raw episode by trying to ‘stack’ it up with most of the crap happening on Smackdown.


----------



## Spartan117

Lashley being back is great for Raw too. If they bring the new title immediately, then you have all of Seth, Cody, Owens, and Bobby who can contend for being the first champion. You'd also still have Edge and Styles in the undercard. I think they will continue that feud into HIAC (it would make sense). The title picture could be very interesting if they do it right now.



DammitChrist said:


> “Most” fans care, but yet the last Smackdown episode lost 17% of the demographic numbers compared to last week, and still did worse compared to last year’s ThunderDome episode.
> 
> Let’s also ignore the fact that they convoluted last night’s Raw episode by trying to stack it up with most of the crap happening on Smackdown.


This is such a stupid argument. Reigns/Brock didn't just happen last week. It's the big angle for Smackdown since September. It's what the show is built around. Smackdown managed to do 2.3 million in December of all months and held a strong average that month thanks to it too. You'd honestly have to be a complete moron to think the Reigns/Brock angle hasn't done its job. Smackdown RTWM in 2022 is the first year since Raw in January-March 2018, that WWE will not have lost viewership YOY. They literally just bumped Raw's viewership over 200k+ compared to their RTWM average.

How do you guys try and argue ratings while ignoring the big picture to make such terrible arguments?


----------



## FrankieDs316

HUGE number for Raw last night. Comb of it being the go home show to WM and Roman & Brock being on the show defiantly helped boost the ratings. Also Roman being in the highest rated segment on Raw. The man is a draw no doubt. Majority of fans very much looking forward to Brock vs Roman


----------



## Kentucky34

Spartan117 said:


> *Raw Ratings during RTWM37 (2021) and RTWM38 (2022):
> 
> January 2021 Avg:* 1.905 million
> *January 2022 Avg: * 1.718 million
> 
> *February 2021 Avg:* 1.826 million
> *February 2022 Avg (with Syfy): *1.641 million
> *February 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.825 million
> 
> *March 2021 Avg:* 1.828 million
> *March 2022 Avg: * 1.806 million
> 
> *RTWM 2021 Avg:* 1.841 million
> *RTWM 2022 Avg (with Syfy): * 1.721 million
> *RTWM 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.763 million
> 
> February only had 4 shows so obviously the Syfy shows messed it all up by messing with the average. So 4 shows average with Syfy or 2 shows average without it, including post-EC Raw.
> 
> Raw passed the 1.8 million mark twice since the beginning of this year: when Brock won the Royal Rumble and when Brock won the WWE Championship at Elimination Chamber. They did almost 2 million yesterday when Reigns and Brock showed up. Without those 3 shows and Syfy, the average is around 1.715 million which I think is probably the kind of number to expect beyond WM in April (post-WM Raw should do around 2 million).
> 
> Overall RTWM this year only had a 4% decline YOY so this is pretty decent. It seems the decline that began a few years is beginning to stabilize so WWE could realistically be nearing their floor for the time being. Key point now will be what happens after WM as April-June is usually a pull back. I would say staying in the 1.7-1.75 million range is key, with a sustained drop below it likely signaling that they will be at the 1.5-1.6 million range come NFL season later this year.
> 
> We are about to see how big of a deal Cody actually is. Very rare that you get a setup like this to see how much of an impact a star actually has. A lot of this is really going to come down to him and his reintroduction to Raw. We already know from current trends that with the current Raw roster, that they'd likely fall to the 1.7 million range in April and likely below. So if Raw actually does solid numbers beyond that, I could see WWE giving Cody a massive push because it'll be clear where the uptrend is coming from. I believe the plan is to bring another world title to Raw according to rumors so a big story angle like that could also help generate short-term interest too.


So Seth and Kevin have maintained the audience from last year despite not being pushed as top stars.

Very impressive.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> “Most” fans care, but yet the last Smackdown episode lost 17% of the demographic numbers compared to last week, and still did worse compared to last year’s ThunderDome episode.
> 
> Let’s also ignore the fact that they crammed everything in last night’s Raw episode by trying to ‘stack’ it up with most of the crap happening on Smackdown.


Yet.....they still got nearly 2.2 million viewers And Roman Reigns gained 200k viewers in his segment alone. 

The more people watching, the more people that care, you realise that right. Demographics don't determine how many people care, viewership does.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Spartan117 said:


> *Raw Ratings during RTWM37 (2021) and RTWM38 (2022):
> 
> January 2021 Avg:* 1.905 million
> *January 2022 Avg: * 1.718 million
> 
> *February 2021 Avg:* 1.826 million
> *February 2022 Avg (with Syfy): *1.641 million
> *February 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.825 million
> 
> *March 2021 Avg:* 1.828 million
> *March 2022 Avg: * 1.806 million
> 
> *RTWM 2021 Avg:* 1.841 million
> *RTWM 2022 Avg (with Syfy): * 1.721 million
> *RTWM 2022 Avg (exc Syfy): *1.763 million
> 
> February only had 4 shows so obviously the Syfy shows messed it all up by messing with the average. So 4 shows average with Syfy or 2 shows average without it, including post-EC Raw.
> 
> Raw passed the 1.8 million mark twice since the beginning of this year: when Brock won the Royal Rumble and when Brock won the WWE Championship at Elimination Chamber. They did almost 2 million yesterday when Reigns and Brock showed up. Without those 3 shows and Syfy, the average is around 1.715 million which I think is probably the kind of number to expect beyond WM in April (post-WM Raw should do around 2 million).
> 
> Overall RTWM this year only had a 4% decline YOY so this is pretty decent. It seems the decline that began a few years is beginning to stabilize so WWE could realistically be nearing their floor for the time being. Key point now will be what happens after WM as April-June is usually a pull back. I would say staying in the 1.7-1.75 million range is key, with a sustained drop below it likely signaling that they will be at the 1.5-1.6 million range come NFL season later this year.
> 
> We are about to see how big of a deal Cody actually is. Very rare that you get a setup like this to see how much of an impact a star actually has. A lot of this is really going to come down to him and his reintroduction to Raw. We already know from current trends that with the current Raw roster, that they'd likely fall to the 1.7 million range in April and likely below. So if Raw actually does solid numbers beyond that, I could see WWE giving Cody a massive push because it'll be clear where the uptrend is coming from. I believe the plan is to bring another world title to Raw according to rumors so a big story angle like that could also help generate short-term interest too.


Great analysis.

But Cody himself aint gonna do anything to change the rating of a 3 hr show. Show after mania always goes up and week after that Cody hype would have died. 

No one will. The Rock could appear weekly and the rating would slowly edge back to where it is now after about 1 month or so. People just don't watch TV as much anymore except for Live sports.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Still funny people acting like 2.0-2.2 million is good for WWE and especially Lesnar/Reigns (let alone the 1.9 million this show got which isn't even the best in the last year), but whatever works. More fans have left vs. the few that shift around and don't watch every show.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yet.....they still got nearly 2.2 million viewers And Roman Reigns gained 200k viewers in his segment alone.
> 
> The more people watching, the more people that care, you realise that right. Demographics don't determine how many people care, viewership does.


Wow, am I supposed to be impressed with a ‘gain’ where he apparently performed about the same rating as Sami Zayn vs Ricochet did weeks ago? 

That honestly tells me a lot more about how talents in the midcard scene can still manage to get the TV audience to care about them.

For the record, the demographic numbers help determine how likely a program stays on TV, and they represent the younger generation of fans too. This has been repeated countless times in these topics.


----------



## Kentucky34

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yet.....they still got nearly 2.2 million viewers And Roman Reigns gained 200k viewers in his segment alone.
> 
> The more people watching, the more people that care, you realise that right. Demographics don't determine how many people care, viewership does.


Reigns better increase the audience given the push he has received.

Seth drew almost 2 million for his segment last week without the monster push.


----------



## Spartan117

Dark Emperor said:


> Great analysis.
> 
> But Cody himself aint gonna do anything to change the rating of a 3 hr show. Show after mania always goes up and week after that Cody hype would have died.
> 
> No one will. The Rock could appear weekly and the rating would slowly edge back to where it is now after about 1 month or so. People just don't watch TV as much anymore except for Live sports.


It's less about making some big difference in the overall ratings and more about creating a different trend in the ratings. If your big hook is strong, then the rest of the show benefits regardless, even if it's not quite like it was back in the 2000s (although during those days they wouldn't book the show in such a segmented way either which helped). Ratings ebb and flow anyway but the trend line gives you a good idea of direction.

The key is really seeing if Cody changes the current trend for Raw. If Raw maintains above 1.7 million beyond April (obviously excluding the Raw after WM which should do around 2 million), then you will likely see a potential trend shift occur. That will undoubtedly be thanks to him then, because we can look at Raw ratings right now and over the last 6 months and pretty accurately guess they're headed to sub-1.7 million soon due to the natural pull back that occurs and their current average for 2022. If that pattern breaks when he arrives, it'd no doubt be thanks to him.

He's clearly being set up pretty well. He's going to debut at WM, likely go over Seth, and probably immediately enter the main event picture thereafter. If that creates an uptrend, it'd be undeniable. You do bring up a great point that online views are a much bigger deal now, but if he manages to stabilize ratings, that'd be a big success in itself for them. The key in TV is to retain viewers for the most part with long running shows.

We'll get to see The Rock effect next year most likely. That will definitely be a good indicator for expectations being placed upon the current roster. He is an X factor though. And I think he will likely have a pretty good impact when he does arrive.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Spartan117 said:


> We'll get to see The Rock effect next year most likely. That will definitely be a good indicator for expectations being placed upon the current roster. He is an X factor though. And I think he will likely have a pretty good impact when he does arrive.


No doubt The Rock would have a massive impact. He's a special attraction and a huge star.

What i meant is if he showed up weekly or semi weekly like Brock for example, his impact will dwindle over time as it becomes less special and most people will just watch his segments online or at their leisure.

But yeah in terms of Cody it will be interesting, but he didn't do a lot for AEW numbers so i dont see where his fans are coming from except AEW fans...


----------



## Spartan117

Dark Emperor said:


> No doubt The Rock would have a massive impact. He's a special attraction and a huge star.
> 
> What i meant is if he showed up weekly or semi weekly like Brock for example, his impact will dwindle over time as it becomes less special and most people will just watch his segments online or at their leisure.
> 
> But yeah in terms of Cody it will be interesting, but he didn't do a lot for AEW numbers so i dont see where his fans are coming from except AEW fans...


Oh for sure. The hype factor is strong nowadays so that initial impact will obviously wear off when a new normal is established and it's not as exciting. This is why I say the trend is so important. If they can maintain stability, it's a good thing. Otherwise you get Raw in April 2019 where it starts collapsing and they panic. Lost viewers don't come back.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> Good number for today's day and age, but still depressing that on the go-home show to WM with everyone from both brands on the show, they still can't crack 2 million.


The big question will be where will numbers be a month from now when Brock Lesnar is no longer part of the show and we regress back to SOP.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Seafort said:


> The big question will be where will numbers be a month from now when Brock Lesnar is no longer part of the show and we regress back to SOP.


Absolutely. Very interested to see what SD does after WM, too. This week's SD lost to RAW in the demo last week and that was with Reigns and Brock and SD, and neither of them on last week's RAW. It was also SD's worst demo since the fans came back last July, and this is in the middle of a double title feud. They came to see them on last night's RAW, but not last week's SD, which tells you people are more interested in RAW right now than SD which is understandable since SD's roster is absolute trash and the show has been trash for awhile now.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

I'm actually surprised that any hour last night was able to get over 2 million viewers. Fans knew hours before the show that Cody wasn't showing up. All three hours could've been over 2 million viewers if they created a bit more suspense. Posting the segment on twitter was baffling.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Fed dead


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> I'm actually surprised that any hour last night was able to get over 2 million viewers. Fans knew hours before the show that Cody wasn't showing up. All three hours could've been over 2 million viewers if they created a bit more suspense. Posting the segment on twitter was baffling.


Yep. I think that's something everyone agrees with. Kinda dumb to give it away before the show started. But if there is one bright side to that, looking at WWE'S Youtube channel right now; that Seth/Vince video absolutely destroyed every other video they uploaded from RAW last night. This video did over 1.4 million views, and the second most viewed video did barely 1 million views which it just crossed like an hour ago; the Becky/Bianca segment. Brock promo only did 808K and the Reigns promo did 593K.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Yep. I think that's something everyone agrees with. Kinda dumb to give it away before the show started. But if there is one bright side to that, looking at WWE'S Youtube channel right now; that Seth/Vince video absolutely destroyed every other video they uploaded from RAW last night. This video did over 1.4 million views, and the second most viewed video did barely 1 million views which it just crossed like an hour ago; the Becky/Bianca segment. Brock promo only did 808K and the Reigns promo did 593K.



Adrenaline 

In my soul

I bring the views


I'm Cody rhodes


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Adrenaline
> 
> In my soul
> 
> I bring the views
> 
> 
> I'm Cody rhodes


It's going to be surreal hearing Kingdom at Wrestlemania 38 this Saturday.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Roman's promo peaked at 2.3 million.

G
O
D


Mode.


----------



## Rankles75

RainmakerV2 said:


> Roman's promo peaked at 2.3 million.
> 
> G
> O
> D
> 
> 
> Mode.


----------



## FrankieDs316

RainmakerV2 said:


> Roman's promo peaked at 2.3 million.
> 
> G
> O
> D
> 
> 
> Mode.


Highest draw in WWE by far.


----------



## Goku

Even if the rating drops to 100k per show, there will be people here attributing it all to their favourites and trying to rile everyone else up.


----------



## Frost99

ThirdMan said:


> 1.701 million viewers, with a 0.52 in the key demo. It was up against the NCAA Basketball Tournament finals.


The WOMEN'S ncca finals, not the men's. That happens the RAW after WM.


----------



## postmoderno

Goku said:


> Even if the rating drops to 100k per show, there will be people here attributing it all to their favourites and trying to rile everyone else up.


Low or high, that's all the ratings threads are at this point. Ratings suck because my favorite isn't being featured, or the talent I hate is featured too much. Ratings are great because my favorite is being featured, or the talent I hate is being phased out.

Just a bunch of people demonstrating that they don't understand, or are ignoring, that correlation is not equal to causation.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Look at the segment that helped bring them back to 2+ million viewers, @Showstopper


----------



## TheGunnShow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Women's tag lost a ton of viewers and the Bianca/Becky segment lost them too. Not much interest in the women's division right now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TheGunnShow said:


> Women's tag lost a ton of viewers and the Bianca/Becky segment lost them too. Not much interest in the women's division right now.


*The Tribal Chief delivering a speech on RAW is a much more special occasion than a clusterfuck, no matter how popular one team is.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That actually is a good number for Roman’s promo on Raw. Getting close to 2.4 for Raw is a good showing.

Before (certain) people get crazy, two things:

1) People probably expected Brock to interrupt in some way. I know I did (even though I didn’t watch the segment myself since I got my fill of Brock earlier).

2) Roman doesn’t draw like that consistently. Being well above the rest of the show. Usually he underperforms from the few breakdowns we have and his Raw appearance last year had virtually no effect.

That said, a good quarter is a good quarter and I highly doubt those backstage segments brought that number in.

Ok now Reigns marks, go crazy. 

Other things to note is the Seth/Vince video seemed to do really well too. Probably a decent sized part in propping up the 9pm. Omos did well too. Maybe the Lashley return rumors helped slightly. They’ve been consistently sticking Omos in the 3rd and 4th quarter hours, with varying degrees of success. This week though was good to build on the big gain Q3 did.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Look at the segment that helped bring them back to 2+ million viewers, @Showstopper


Bringing RAW back to over 2 million is a huge deal. Biggest QH on last week's RAW, too, and last week RAW beat SD in the demo. It's been a beautiful several months for Seth. His segments have routinely been at the top for RAW even before the Road to WM. No belt or big push even needed for that. Plus, Raw beat SD in the demo last week and that was with Seth all over last week's show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Wow Sasha Banks losing 300k+ plus viewers and turning people away in droves.
I heard this was the biggest draw in wrestling.


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hate to be the party pooper for the needle mover now (well.. no.. actually don't hate it), but here's some facts

9h00-9h15 is usually the top quarter and usually has 150K-200K bump.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499068265036795911
Are we saying Ciampa brought in 200K viewers? though so.

More proof:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504236318003539969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506701315405234185
God knnows that this show is death, they booked everyone as a jobber in favor of Brock/Roman, the other guy on their level (Bobby) is not that charismatic and is fighting a rookie at WM while top guys like AJ and Rollins were made to look like CHUMPS compared to Roman/Brock. Yeah bet that a show that's been without a world championn for a month and suddenly has the 2 most overpushed wrestlers of all times on the WM go home show for a slight bump in the rating. And we're seriously going to pretend this? How people people saw Lesnar and Reigns do the tug aand are still watching for THIS HUGE HISTORIC STUPENDOUS MATCH? Well, half of them.


----------



## DammitChrist

I KNEW that small bump was insignificant after all 

@The Definition of Technician just proved this to be true by pointing out the common trend regarding the 5th quarter.

Anyway, Raw already drew over 2 million+ viewers at 2 different points in the episode long before 9:00; so that's good enough for me


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> I KNEW that small bump was insignificant after all
> 
> @The Definition of Technician just proved this to be true by pointing out the common trend regarding the 5th quarter.
> 
> Anyway, Raw already drew over 2 million+ viewers at 2 different points in the episode long before 9:00; so that's good enough for me


I'll give credit where it's due, they got to 2m, and he did his job of drawing viewers in Q5, as should any top star. I meann, One time they put 24/7 shit inn Q5 with Dana and Reggie and they lost viewers. but a 9% rise is not THAT impressive, unless we now see end of 6-woman tag and ciama/roode > reigns first time on RAW in month pre-WM, because that was a 11% rise.

ALSO, the other proof I posted had an AD BREAK in the 15min of Q5, this week/Reign's segment had no AD BREAK throughout these 15min, so the segment stays more consistent.

Bref, it's not that impressive.

I haven't commented much on ratings but I love to study these things.
If we had years of data and Quarter breakdowns, all this talk would actually be more legit, but for now, it's just air talk.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Time to strap up Akira Tozawa. Mad Blankey bros UNITE


----------



## Spartan117

Showstopper said:


> Yep. I think that's something everyone agrees with. Kinda dumb to give it away before the show started. But if there is one bright side to that, looking at WWE'S Youtube channel right now; that Seth/Vince video absolutely destroyed every other video they uploaded from RAW last night. This video did over 1.4 million views, and the second most viewed video did barely 1 million views which it just crossed like an hour ago; the Becky/Bianca segment. Brock promo only did 808K and the Reigns promo did 593K.


It wasn't dumb to give it away. It was smart. It allows the video to stand alone and gain attention which they want. You're all giving way too much credit to an X factor in Cody. All the teasing isn't going to work when half the audience doesn't know him and the 3rd hour is usually a bad spot. On Raw, it could have been drowned out. This video had Vince in it, and they likely want it to get as much attention as possible to build anticipation. Also Bianca and Becky did 1.4 million views near enough due to the hair cutting angle. That was on Raw. Not far removed from the Vince and Seth video.

Generally it goes Big Spot > Match > Promo for views. Brock already being over 1 million views in 2 days for a 3 minute solo promo is probably the most impressive thing from Raw considering how much of a struggle it clearly is for promo videos for guys like Owens, Seth, Edge to even break the 500k mark sometimes weeks later. He is incredibly consistent. His YouTube average since his return in August is still above 3 million so far.

Here are Raw's videos for last few weeks (Seth and Vince is not technically Raw obviously but for sake of simplicity).

*Raw March 28, 2022:*
1.59 million views - Mr. McMahon to handpick Seth “Freakin” Rollins’ opponent at WrestleMania
1.37 million views - Bianca Belair cuts off Becky Lynch’s hair: Raw, March 28, 2022
1.05 million views - Brock Lesnar can't wait to get his hands on Roman Reigns at WrestleMania: Raw, March 28, 2022
770k views - RK-Bro vs. The Usos: Raw, March 28, 2022
740k views - Reigns is taking his quest to beat Lesnar at WrestleMania very personally: Raw, March 28, 2022
588k views - The Viking Raiders vs. Omos – 2-on-1 Handicap Match: Raw, March 28, 2022
517k views - Eight-Woman Tag Team Match: Raw, March 28, 2022
425k views - Rey Mysterio vs. The Miz: Raw, March 28, 2022
358k views - Reggie proposes to Dana Brooke and Akira Tozawa to Tamina: Raw, March 28, 2022
288k views - Drew McIntyre vs. Happy Corbin & Madcap Moss: Raw, March 28, 2022
266k views - Edge and AJ Styles will bring justice to their match at WrestleMania: Raw, March 28, 2022

*Raw March 21, 2022:*
1.9 million views - The Miz unmasks Rey Mysterio: Raw, March 21, 2022
1.5 million views - Omos vs. Apollo Crews & Commander Azeez – 2-on-1 Handicap Match: Raw, March 21, 2022
1.26 million views - Kevin Owens impersonates “Stone Cold” Steve Austin in WrestleMania taunt: Raw, March 21, 2022
1.14 million views - AJ Styles vs. Seth “Freakin” Rollins – “Seth Rollins’ Last Chance”: Raw, March 21, 2022
764k views - Finn Bálor vs. Austin Theory: Raw, March 21, 2022
739k views - RK-Bro vs. Alpha Academy: Raw, March 21, 2022
600k views - Reggie & Dana Brooke vs. Akira Tozawa & Tamina – Tornado Tag Team Match: Raw, March 21, 2022
477k views - Rhea Ripley & Liv Morgan vs. Shayna Baszler & Natalya: Raw, March 21, 2022
460k views - Seth “Freakin” Rollins targets AJ Styles in WrestleMania crusade: Raw, March 21, 2022
390k views - Becky Lynch promises to humiliate Bianca Belair: Raw, March 21, 2022

*Raw March 14, 2022:*
2.95 million views - Omos vs. Commander Azeez: Raw, March 14, 2022
1.16 million views - Becky Lynch takes out Bianca Belair after her match against Doudrop: Raw, March 14, 2022
814k views - Seth Rollins takes on Kevin Owens in a match with WrestleMania implications: Raw, March 14, 2022
592k views - Riddle vs. Montez Ford: Raw, March 14, 2022
537k views - Liv Morgan vs. Queen Zelina: Raw, March 14, 2022
517k views - The Street Profits challenge RK-Bro for the Raw Tag Team Titles at WrestleMania: Raw, March 14, 2022
513k views - Kevin Owens sends a “Stone Cold” message with a Stunner on the cameraman: Raw, March 14, 2022
502k views - Finn Bálor vs. Damian Priest: Raw, March 14, 2022
480k views - Rey Mysterio & Dominik Mysterio vs. The Hurt Business: Raw, March 14, 2022
476k views - Seth Rollins plans to steal Kevin Owens’ WrestleMania moment: Raw, March 14, 2022
309k views - Edge will judge AJ Styles from his “Mountain of Omnipotence” at WrestleMania: Raw, March 14, 2022

*Raw March 7, 2022:*
1.28 million views - Kevin Owens invites “Stone Cold” Steve Austin to WrestleMania: Raw, March 7, 2022
1.27 million views - Alpha Academy vs. RK-Bro vs. Owens & Rollins – Raw Tag Team Title Triple Threat: Raw, March 7, 2022
853k views - The Damian is unleashed on Finn Bálor: Raw, March 7, 2022
761k views - Rhea Ripley & Liv Morgan vs. Queen Zelina & Carmella: Raw, March 7, 2022
754k views - Omos vs. Apollo Crews: Raw, March 7, 2022
626k views - Edge sends a dark message to AJ Styles: Raw, March 7, 2022
387k views - Dana Brooke vs. Tamina – 24/7 Title Match: Raw, March 7, 2022
336k views - The Miz & Logan Paul’s Cleveland Homecoming turns sour: Raw, March 7, 2022
329k views - Bron Breakker & Tommaso Ciampa vs. Dolph Ziggler & Robert Roode: Raw, March 7, 2022
277k views - Kevin Owens & Seth Rollins call out Raw Tag Team Title competitors: Raw, March 7, 2022


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> It wasn't dumb to give it away. It was smart. It allows the video to stand alone and gain attention which they want. You're all giving way too much credit to an X factor in Cody. All the teasing isn't going to work when half the audience doesn't know him and the 3rd hour is usually a bad spot. On Raw, it could have been drowned out. This video had Vince in it, and they likely want it to get as much attention as possible to build anticipation. Also Bianca and Becky did 1.4 million views near enough due to the hair cutting angle. That was on Raw. Not far removed from the Vince and Seth video.
> 
> Generally it goes Big Spot > Match > Promo for views. Brock already being over 1 million views in 2 days for a 3 minute solo promo is probably the most impressive thing from Raw considering how much of a struggle it clearly is for promo videos for guys like Owens, Seth, Edge to even break the 500k mark sometimes weeks later. He is incredibly consistent. His YouTube average since his return in August is still above 3 million so far.
> 
> Here are Raw's videos for last few weeks (Seth and Vince is not technically Raw obviously but for sake of simplicity).
> 
> *Raw March 28, 2022:*
> 1.59 million views - Mr. McMahon to handpick Seth “Freakin” Rollins’ opponent at WrestleMania
> 1.37 million views - Bianca Belair cuts off Becky Lynch’s hair: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 1.05 million views - Brock Lesnar can't wait to get his hands on Roman Reigns at WrestleMania: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 770k views - RK-Bro vs. The Usos: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 740k views - Reigns is taking his quest to beat Lesnar at WrestleMania very personally: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 588k views - The Viking Raiders vs. Omos – 2-on-1 Handicap Match: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 517k views - Eight-Woman Tag Team Match: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 425k views - Rey Mysterio vs. The Miz: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 358k views - Reggie proposes to Dana Brooke and Akira Tozawa to Tamina: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 288k views - Drew McIntyre vs. Happy Corbin & Madcap Moss: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 266k views - Edge and AJ Styles will bring justice to their match at WrestleMania: Raw, March 28, 2022
> 
> *Raw March 21, 2022:*
> 1.9 million views - The Miz unmasks Rey Mysterio: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 1.5 million views - Omos vs. Apollo Crews & Commander Azeez – 2-on-1 Handicap Match: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 1.26 million views - Kevin Owens impersonates “Stone Cold” Steve Austin in WrestleMania taunt: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 1.14 million views - AJ Styles vs. Seth “Freakin” Rollins – “Seth Rollins’ Last Chance”: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 764k views - Finn Bálor vs. Austin Theory: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 739k views - RK-Bro vs. Alpha Academy: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 600k views - Reggie & Dana Brooke vs. Akira Tozawa & Tamina – Tornado Tag Team Match: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 477k views - Rhea Ripley & Liv Morgan vs. Shayna Baszler & Natalya: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 460k views - Seth “Freakin” Rollins targets AJ Styles in WrestleMania crusade: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 390k views - Becky Lynch promises to humiliate Bianca Belair: Raw, March 21, 2022
> 
> *Raw March 14, 2022:*
> 2.95 million views - Omos vs. Commander Azeez: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 1.16 million views - Becky Lynch takes out Bianca Belair after her match against Doudrop: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 814k views - Seth Rollins takes on Kevin Owens in a match with WrestleMania implications: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 592k views - Riddle vs. Montez Ford: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 537k views - Liv Morgan vs. Queen Zelina: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 517k views - The Street Profits challenge RK-Bro for the Raw Tag Team Titles at WrestleMania: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 513k views - Kevin Owens sends a “Stone Cold” message with a Stunner on the cameraman: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 502k views - Finn Bálor vs. Damian Priest: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 480k views - Rey Mysterio & Dominik Mysterio vs. The Hurt Business: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 476k views - Seth Rollins plans to steal Kevin Owens’ WrestleMania moment: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 309k views - Edge will judge AJ Styles from his “Mountain of Omnipotence” at WrestleMania: Raw, March 14, 2022
> 
> *Raw March 7, 2022:*
> 1.28 million views - Kevin Owens invites “Stone Cold” Steve Austin to WrestleMania: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 1.27 million views - Alpha Academy vs. RK-Bro vs. Owens & Rollins – Raw Tag Team Title Triple Threat: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 853k views - The Damian is unleashed on Finn Bálor: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 761k views - Rhea Ripley & Liv Morgan vs. Queen Zelina & Carmella: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 754k views - Omos vs. Apollo Crews: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 626k views - Edge sends a dark message to AJ Styles: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 387k views - Dana Brooke vs. Tamina – 24/7 Title Match: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 336k views - The Miz & Logan Paul’s Cleveland Homecoming turns sour: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 329k views - Bron Breakker & Tommaso Ciampa vs. Dolph Ziggler & Robert Roode: Raw, March 7, 2022
> 277k views - Kevin Owens & Seth Rollins call out Raw Tag Team Title competitors: Raw, March 7, 2022


The video would have done the best number regardless of whether or not it debuted on Youtube or not first. Vince is a proven draw, as we know. Seth's in-ring promo from last week's RAW with AJ did the highest QH of the entire episode of RAW; an episode of RAW that beat SD in the demo last week. Brock is World Champion and the biggest name in the entire company in the biggest feud of this Road to WM, him not hitting a million views on the go-home show to WM is at least somewhat telling, as is the fact that SD lost to RAW last week in the demo.

There are arguments we can make for either way, but I guess in some sense it was a good idea.


----------



## Spartan117

Showstopper said:


> The video would have done the best number regardless of whether or not it debuted on Youtube or not first. Vince is a proven draw, as we know. Seth's in-ring promo from last week's RAW with AJ did the highest QH of the entire episode of RAW; an episode of RAW that beat SD in the demo last week. Brock is World Champion and the biggest name in the entire company in the biggest feud of this Road to WM, him not hitting a million views on the go-home show to WM is at least somewhat telling, as is the fact that SD lost to RAW last week in the demo.
> 
> There are arguments we can make for either way, but I guess in some sense it was a good idea.


Raw is a 3 hour show. That's a lot of noise. I also highly doubt it'd be the most viewed video; that would likely be the hair cutting video due to the drama. The Vince and Seth video is only 200k ahead despite being promoted on social media and uploaded earlier. The point ultimately is, it's not the WWE audience they're targeting with these teases. Half of them do not know or care who Cody Rhodes is. It's about hardcore fans, and for that purpose the YouTube video being uploaded early makes sense since those people tend to be to be primarily on social media. It allows WWE to try and give obvious indications to them that "Yes, Cody is coming, please be excited". Unless Vince himself was going to appear on Raw, it makes no difference. That's the one exception because Vince showing up in a ring is always a big deal, but clearly he wasn't going to. So you're left with a video of Vince telling Seth he has an opponent that doesn't take place on Raw. Easy way to highlight it by promoting it on social media.

Also Seth's average YouTube views for the last year are like 400-500k. Brock's are over 3 million since he returned. As for Raw, it's 3 best numbers on this RTWM have all involved Brock (and Reigns last night). You clearly have no idea how rare it is a promo video to break 1 million, especially this quickly. Brock being world champion, or the biggest name, or blah blah is irrelevant to the fact that solo promo videos of a guy standing in the ring alone generally do not do well. You have Seth and Owens promo videos that have done less than 500k despite being up for weeks. Do they not get exposure and time on Raw? What are they, jobbers now? As for demo talk, nice of you to be selective. Raw's average demo for RTWM (excluding Syfy) is 0.46. That number drops even lower without the 2 big Brock episodes, and especially last night. Smackdown's is 0.56. That's a big difference between the two. A bigger difference between Smackdown and Raw in the demo (0.56 to 0.46) than there is between Raw and Dynamite (0.46 to 0.39).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> Raw is a 3 hour show. That's a lot of noise. I also highly doubt it'd be the most viewed video; that would likely be the hair cutting video due to the drama. The Vince and Seth video is only 200k ahead despite being promoted on social media and uploaded earlier. The point ultimately is, it's not the WWE audience they're targeting with these teases. Half of them do not know or care who Cody Rhodes is. It's about hardcore fans, and for that purpose the YouTube video being uploaded early makes sense since those people tend to be to be primarily on social media. It allows WWE to try and give obvious indications to them that "Yes, Cody is coming, please be excited". Unless Vince himself was going to appear on Raw, it makes no difference. That's the one exception because Vince showing up in a ring is always a big deal, but clearly he wasn't going to. So you're left with a video of Vince telling Seth he has an opponent that doesn't take place on Raw. Easy way to highlight it by promoting it on social media.
> 
> Also Seth's average YouTube views for the last year are like 400-500k. Brock's are over 3 million since he returned. As for Raw, it's 3 best numbers on this RTWM have all involved Brock (and Reigns last night). You clearly have no idea how rare it is a promo video to break 1 million, especially this quickly. Brock being world champion, or the biggest name, or blah blah is irrelevant to the fact that solo promo videos of a guy standing in the ring alone generally do not do well. You have Seth and Owens promo videos that have done less than 500k despite being up for weeks. Do they not get exposure and time on Raw? What are they, jobbers now?


Wrong. When Seth and Owens are pushed to the degree that Brock is and is World Champion, then we can talk. RAW last week without Brock, beat SD smack-dab in the middle of a Double World Title Feud featuring Brock and Reigns, and beat it in the all-important demo. That is beyond stablizied without Brock, and actually beating him.

Since the NFL season Ended, all three hours of RAW have finished in the top three slots of the highest-viewed Cable TV shows all but one week where Hour 3 finished 4th instead of third. Add onto that beating SD last week in the demo, and I'm pretty sure USA is beyond thrilled with RAW's ratings. And all of that with the World Champion of the show barely ever making any appearances on the show. That is very impressive for a three hour show with no World Champion and something no other current wrestling program can proclaim.

Just wait until RAW gets it's next increase in it's next TV deal. Make sure you are here that day.


----------



## Spartan117

Showstopper said:


> Wrong. When Seth and Owens are pushed to the degree that Brock is and is World Champion, then we can talk. RAW last week without Brock, beat SD smack-dab in the middle of a Double World Title Feud featuring Brock and Reigns, and beat it in the all-important demo. That is beyond stablizied without Brock, and actually beating him.
> 
> Since the NFL season Ended, all three hours of RAW have finished in the top three slots of the highest-viewed Cable TV shows all but one week where Hour 3 finished 4th instead of third. Add onto that beating SD last week in the demo, and I'm pretty sure USA is beyond thrilled with RAW's ratings. And all of that with the World Champion of the show barely ever making any appearances on the show. That is very impressive for a three hour show with no World Champion and something no other current wrestling program can proclaim.
> 
> Just wait until RAW gets it's next increase in it's next TV deal. Make sure you are here that day.


Seth was pushed plenty hard in 2019, when they lost 700k viewers in 3 weeks in April immediately after WM35. Then they turned him into a midcarder at the end of the year. He's not being given the push now for a reason. Brock was part of Raw until March, and showed up again last night on the go home show. Their biggest numbers in 2022 have happened when he was on the show. Also the TV renewal is in 2024. We could all be dead by then. Never know what's around the corner.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Spartan117 said:


> Seth was pushed plenty hard in 2019, when they lost 700k viewers in 3 weeks in April immediately after WM35. Then they turned him into a midcarder at the end of the year. He's not being given the push now for a reason. Brock was part of Raw until March, and showed up again last night on the go home show. Their biggest numbers in 2022 have happened when he was on the show. Also the TV renewal is in 2024. We could all be dead by then. Never know what's around the corner.


Any numbers Seth 'produced; in either 2015 or 2019 are sure as hell higher than what they are producing these days, go-home show or not; Brock or not. So...yeah. The biggest numbers so far are the RAW after the Rumble, and last RAW before WM; no surprise those are the highest rated shows.

2024? Good to know. As long as your alive by then (your words), make sure you are here.


----------



## Spartan117

Showstopper said:


> Any numbers Seth 'produced; in either 2015 or 2019 are sure as hell higher than what they are producing these days, go-home show or not; Brock or not. So...yeah. The biggest numbers so far are the RAW after the Rumble, and last RAW before WM; no surprise those are the highest rated shows.
> 
> 2024? Good to know. As long as your alive by then (your words), make sure you are here.


Numbers are based on the context of that time. In 2015, the numbers dropped so bad that it was the first time WWE ever had an increase in ratings during the typical death period (Q4) when Seth got injured. In 2019, they had an unprecedented decrease in ratings which led to the network actually panicking. The fact that you're comparing 2015 or 2019 to 2022 (which in itself is in this state partially thanks to the damage done in 2019 onward) about says it all. Not sure why I'm even wasting my time if you lack this much understanding.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

We The Ones ☝☝☝

Tribal Chief never stays slipping.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> We The Ones ☝☝☝
> 
> Tribal Chief never stays slipping.


Except that the demographic numbers/ratings slipped this past Smackdown episode under his (plus Brock Lesnar’s) watch compared to last week’s episode and last year’s episode.


----------



## FrankieDs316

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love it when a Roman isn't a draw narrative gets debunked


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Except that the demographic numbers/ratings slipped this past Smackdown episode under his (and Brock Lesnar’s) watch compared to last week’s episode and last year’s episode.


Bro I don't care about SmackDown I don't watch it, don't care about the demo numbers either. SmackDown has been the most consistent show in terms of viewership staying around 2-2.2 million. That's pretty good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Except that the demographic numbers/ratings slipped this past Smackdown episode under his (and Brock Lesnar’s) watch compared to last week’s episode and last year’s episode.


RAW beat SD last week.


----------



## JP111

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow Sasha Banks losing 300k+ plus viewers and turning people away in droves.
> I heard this was the biggest draw in wrestling.


9:00-9:15 - 0 seconds of commercial breaks.
9:15-9:30 - 8.5 minutes of commercial breaks (plus a 1 minute Steiner HoF promo video).

There's your big drop for you. Context is important when looking at ratings.


----------



## Erik.

The decline in customer revenue is staggering....


----------



## validreasoning

Erik. said:


> The decline in customer revenue is staggering....


You clearly don't understand how to interpret that chart. Customer revenue has not fallen in so much as last tv deal increased b2b as overall % of total revenue


----------



## validreasoning

In 2018 year before New tv deal came into place licensing from video game sales amounted to $46m. Online merch sales were ~$35m and merch sold at live events was $21.7m










In 2021 licensing from video game sales was $52m (increase from 2018). Online merch sales were $39m (increase from 2018) and merch sold at live events was $10.1 roughly half of 2018 which is to be expected given they didn't return to live events until mid July last year. 










Ticket sales in 2018 was ~$144 million. That was around 360 shows. 










Ticket sales in 2021 was ~$58m but again no live events until July so far less shows in 2021 (101 vs 360 on 2018) but higher dollars per ticket sale in 2021.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511431578467115010

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

Cody. Fucking. Rhodes. 




Thats AGAINST a national title game with 2 blue bloods by the way.


----------



## DammitChrist

ADRENALINE IN MY SOUL.

CODY RHODES SAVED THAT SHOW.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511432295017766928

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511431578467115010
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fabi1982

Acknowledge the tribal chief and the savior Cody!! Good that so many eyes got to see a great show!!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania




----------



## RainmakerV2

Oh and Bron Breakker getting crowned in front of their biggest audience in years. Freaking genius.


----------



## BestInTheWorld312

All jokes aside thats a great number considering the national title game was on and it was a great game too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Night 1 of WM on cagematch is the highest rated WM since WM 31; with the Seth/Cody match the highest rated match of all matches by the folks at cagematch. Love it:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511180894047977477


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Post-Mania, with Cody return hype. Great number for Raw, but that ain't holding next week (if it does, then that would be crazy).

Edit: I'll say too, I think Austin wrestling at Mania, though nothing to do with Raw directly, did have some impact as well. Probably older lapsed fans decided to tune in to see what's going on thanks to that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HOUR 1 DID 2.318 MILLION VIEWERS. CODY DA DRAWWW!!!! Highest single hour since 3/16/20:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511436045145067527


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

HOUR 1: 2.318 MILLION .68
HOUR 2: 2.114 .63
HOUR 3: 1.871 .58


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Hour 3 with a bit of a drop:


----------



## Kentucky34

People turned off once Seth and Cody's segment ended.

Reigns doesn't draw.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

The National Championship didn't start until hour 2 of RAW. When Reigns came out at the end the game was tied with five minutes to go. 

It's still a big drop for hour 3.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The national title game tipped at 930. Probably didn't help. But that 2.3 opening is outrageous


----------



## Kentucky34

The Boy Wonder said:


> The National Championship didn't start until hour 2 of RAW. When Reigns came out at the end the game was tied with five minutes to go.Reply
> 
> It's still a big drop for hour 3.


A massive drop.


----------



## Kentucky34

RainmakerV2 said:


> The national title game tipped at 930. Probably didn't help. But that 2.3 opening is outrageous


Cody and Seth are over as fuck.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Kentucky34 said:


> Cody and Seth are over as fuck.


Ok lets make out over it.


----------



## fabi1982

Wow seeing the game got 4.5 and RAW still managed to not fall completelly off with the last hour. WM delivered, RAW delivered. Lets keep it moving!!


----------



## The Boy Wonder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511444408423571458
Veer was in the highest quarter? 

Anyone a premium member on Patreon?


----------



## Prosper

Yep that spike was all Cody. He's drawing the AEW fans into watching RAW without a doubt.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Boy Wonder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511444408423571458
> Veer was in the highest quarter?
> 
> Anyone a premium member on Patreon?


The people wanted to see VEER finally come..


----------



## DaSlacker

You put the effort in, you pull back in the viewers. Raw and SmackDown have been solid shows. Uninspiring but highly consistent. Personally I think after a rough start and pandemic chaos the creative team seem to know what they're doing. Say what you will about him, but Bruce Prichard leading both shows and having Vince's ear more than others probably does make a difference. Jonathan Baeckstrom has come into his own and who knows, maybe Drake Maverick should be getting praised. Above all else, the number of releases have forced them to concentrate on a smaller cast of characters. 

Also coming off a huge WrestleMania. The Saturday show was excellent and as much as a disappointment as the Sunday edition was, it still had a lot of things happening.


----------



## postmoderno

Wow. That is pretty nuts. Should be interesting to see if they can hold anywhere near that in the following weeks.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Here's the quarter-hour breakdowns. Someone remind me to cancel my subscription in one month


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Nice. The second part of the Cody promo; with Seth's appearance, actually went UP from the 1st QH with just Cody out there. Great stuff.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Have to feel good for Cody. You know the boos in AEW weighed on him.


----------



## DammitChrist

I genuinely hope that when Cody Rhodes returns to AEW several years from now that he’ll come out to great positive crowd reactions once again.

I think he’ll be the 1st man in history to have 2 WWE runs and 2 AEW runs.


----------



## DUD

Cody Rhodes the needle mover!


----------



## DUD

The Boy Wonder said:


> Have to feel good for Cody. You know the boos in AEW weighed on him.


Well they wanted him to turn heel and he committed the most heel act possible... He returned to Sports Entertainment and moved the raitings 😂.


----------



## Irish Jet

If I still had BT Sport I would have tuned in for the first time in years. Wrestlemania earned that. Night one especially.

They would have lost me again with Elias and buried it forever with MVP turning heel. I imagine they’ve chased away potential viewers for a lot of reasons with that show. They can pull off a spectacle now and again but their week to week product is just unwatchable trash.


----------



## Randy Lahey

2.1 mils and 0.63 is the peak of what is left of the WWE Raw audience.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Curious to see how SD will perform this week.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Amazing numbers for Raw this week Raw after WM always does very well.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Prosper said:


> Yep that spike was all Cody. He's drawing the AEW fans into watching RAW without a doubt.


Vince is playing the long game. He is going to push Cody big time and lure big AEW names to WWE.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Get in there Cody.

Obviously Seth and our Tribal Chief also deserve some credit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cody da draw

TKs magic even stretches to RAW


----------



## Soul Man Danny B

I'm going to be _that_ guy...

In 2014, going up against the NCAA men's basketball championship, the Raw after WM30 had 5.31 million viewers in the first hour.

I guess me and my friend Mark stopped watching.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

lol Roman the failure, yet again. Couldn't even get back to Q10 viewership after the massive drop. Couldn't even get 1.8. Horrendous for a guy like that.

Great number for Cody… and Veer? 😂

Edit: And just to put out there, not surprised Q5 didn't do top viewership for once. But the fact hour 1 remained as high as it did, basically doing SD level numbers and actually went up in Q2 and Q4 is really impressive. Cody performed well.

Actually looking even closer at the breakdown, I can see who actually led Raw to above normal SD level-quarter viewership.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511479238460907529

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511482639596896257

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

You know the best thing about all this, Bron Breakker just got crowned champion in front of over 2 million viewers, talk about showing off your next top guy, dude was over as well.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> You know the best thing about all this, Bron Breakker just got crowned champion in front of over 2 million viewers, talk about showing off your next top guy, dude was over as well.


The crowd was dead for most of his match 😂


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> The crowd was dead for most of his match 😂


Dude got plenty of reactions during the match, plus a good pop when he won.

You don't have to make things up because you don't like him.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Dude got plenty of reactions during the match, plus a good pop when he won.
> 
> You don't have to make things up because you don't like him.


No, I saw the match, and the crowd was lukewarm (at best) throughout most of it.

He’s also been outpopped by Dolph Ziggler multiple times too over the past couple of months.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> No, I saw the match, and the crowd was lukewarm (at best) throughout most of it.
> 
> He’s also been outpopped by Dolph Ziggler multiple times too over the past couple of months.


Dude got a louder pop than Ziggler yesterday during the entrances, they were near silent for Dolph.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> lol Roman the failure, yet again. Couldn't even get back to Q10 viewership after the massive drop. Couldn't even get 1.8. Horrendous for a guy like that.


Guess the wise man has to school you guys again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

FrankieDs316 said:


> Guess the wise man has to school you guys again.


Guess the chart has to school you again.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

FrankieDs316 said:


> Guess the wise man has to school you guys again.


Do YouTube numbers really matter financially to the WWE? I'm not familiar with the monetary aspect of YouTube/WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Boy Wonder said:


> Do YouTube numbers really matter financially to the WWE? I'm not familiar with the monetary aspect of YouTube.


YouTube definitely provides some monetary boost for WWE. It's probably minor in the grand scheme of things, but getting more views means more ad revenue.


----------



## DammitChrist

YouTube makes VERY little money for WWE in comparison to the rest of their other metrics.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Guess the chart has to school you again.


Roman is the face of the highest rated wrestling show (Smackdown) on TV. Nice try tho. Youre just not gonna win this argument


----------



## The Boy Wonder

FrankieDs316 said:


> Roman is the face of the highest rated wrestling show on TV. Nice try tho. You just not gonna win this argument


Bro, SD would be the highest rated wrestling show even without Reigns. 

Hour 3 is NOT a good number. Let's see how SD does this Friday. The show is built around Reigns' championship plans.


----------



## chronoxiong

Amazing rating this week. Will love if it keeps hold at 2 million viewers weekly


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

FrankieDs316 said:


> Roman is the face of the highest rated wrestling show (Smackdown) on TV. Nice try tho. Youre just not gonna win this argument


Roman wasn't on SD last week and it beat out Raw in viewership last week (which he was on). Nice try tho. You're just not gonna win this argument.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman wasn't on SD last week and it beat out Raw in viewership last week (which he was on). Nice try tho. You're just not gonna win this argument.


Of course it beat Raw because Smackdown is Romans show. Sorry bud but your fantasy that Roman is a failure is just that a fantasy. No amount of lying and repeating yourself is gonna change that. WWE is going to continue to be successful with Roman on top and no amount of lying on a message board will changed that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

FrankieDs316 said:


> Of course it beat Raw because Smackdown is Romans show. Sorry bud but your fantasy that Roman is a failure is just that a fantasy. No amount of lying and repeating yourself is gonna change that. WWE is going to continue to be successful with Roman on top and no amount of lying on a message board will changed that.


Sorry bud, but no amount of lying to yourself will change the overwhelming disappointment and failure Roman is. Biggest push and protection of all time, not even the biggest star in wrestling today. Poor guy (and I mean that - he genuinely seems like a good guy).


----------



## The Boy Wonder

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Sorry bud, but no amount of lying to yourself will change the overwhelming disappointment and failure Roman is. Biggest push *and protection* of all time, not even the biggest star in wrestling today. Poor guy (and I mean that - he genuinely seems like a good guy).


Not sure about protection. He's put the eventual Royal Rumble winner over as the FOTC three times cleanly. He's taken clean losses to Seth, Dean, Lashley, Finn, KO, Brock, Braun, Bray. Also, they had Seth and Drew go over Brock clean before Reigns ever did.

He's been protected over the last two years, no doubt. But a lot of damage was done in the years prior.

Also, I don't think it's unfathomable that no one other than Brock can beat him. He's still never beaten Seth in a championship match.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Sorry bud, but no amount of lying to yourself will change the overwhelming disappointment and failure Roman is. Biggest push and protection of all time, not even the biggest star in wrestling today. Poor guy (and I mean that - he genuinely seems like a good guy).


You can keep lying to yourself but the facts say otherwise. WWE has been making more money with Reigns on top then ever before. You can keep rephrasing my posts to make yourself feel good but facts are facts. Reigns is a huge success.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Boy Wonder said:


> Not sure about protection. He's put the eventual Royal Rumble winner over as the FOTC three times cleanly. He's taken clean losses to Seth, Dean, Lashley, Finn, KO, Brock, Braun, Bray. Also, they had Seth and Drew go over Brock clean before Reigns ever did.


Mainly talking about his run as a heel.

Depends on how you define clean. Seth, Finn, Brock, and Lashley, I'd agree.

The rest? Nah, at least not one on one. Ambrose never pinned him, only in that Shield Triple Threat... which a triple threat win will always have a bit of an asterisk. KO I can't remember ever beating Roman clean, was always some sort of interference. Braun never beat Roman clean either, although did pin him in the Shield vs. Wyatt match if you count that (same thing as the triple threat situation though). 

Reigns is almost always protected in defeat though in some way. Take the four one on one losses he took. The Finn thing happened after the drug suspension, and since then Reigns always beat Balor. Lashley beat him, but then Reigns gets the win back in the match that actually mattered. Lost to Brock, but then took the title anyway later in the year. Seth beat him in the gauntlet match, but I believe that was same week Reigns won the chamber (to go to Mania to face Lesnar if I'm not getting my facts mixed up).

On top of that, beating every legend under the sun. If Austin did/does agree to work more, eventually he's doing the job for Roman too. 

As I said though, it's been his booking as a heel that's earned him that status of "most protected". The guy hasn't been pinned in over 2 years. Even Austin and Rock at their peaks, as far bigger stars than Reigns will ever be, and as faces, took some type of pinfall loss (Austin less so in 1998-1999, but it did happen). Reigns basically just runs through absolutely everyone, with many of those wins clean. Can't even take a loss here and there in multi-man matches. Look at when he wrestled twice on Raw a few months back and won both matches. He could've taken the fall for Big E there to help Big E get his reign off to a solid start, instead of as a loser (and then it's compounded when Reigns beats him at Survivor Series).

Most protected certainly is arguable though, since I'm sure Hogan was just as much if not more so during his run in the 80's. With that said, Hogan was actually a face megastar and brought business to new heights in popularity. Reigns has dragged it to new lows.



FrankieDs316 said:


> You can keep lying to yourself but the facts say otherwise. WWE has been making more money with Reigns on top then ever before. You can keep rephrasing my posts to make yourself feel good but facts are facts. Reigns is a huge success.


You can keep lying to yourself but the facts say otherwise. WWE is at an all-time low in viewership and Reigns has never led to any true increase since he became a top guy in 2015. Facts are facts, Reigns is a huge failure.


----------



## Dr. Middy

That was a way better number than I expected given the NCAA finals were also happening. However, there wasn't really a ton on the show that felt all that interesting long term, so I don't forsee them continuing that rating.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> You can keep lying to yourself but the facts say otherwise. WWE is at an all-time low in viewership and Reigns has never led to any true increase since he became a top guy in 2015. Facts are facts, Reigns is a huge failure.


Roman is the face of the highest rated wrestling show on TV, and WWE has been making more money then ever since he been on top. Reigns has been a massive successes. Also its 2022 imagine thinking cable TV is the only way to watch TV shows.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

FrankieDs316 said:


> Roman is the face of the highest rated wrestling show on TV, and WWE has been making more money then ever since he been on top. Reigns has been a massive successes. Also its 2022 imagine thinking Cabal TV is the only way to watch TV shows.


"Cabal TV" is where it happens live. 

I've already explained why he's a failure, but whatever works for you man. Last post from me in reply to this unless there's something else you want to discuss.


----------



## FrankieDs316

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I've already explained why he's a failure, but whatever works for you man. Last post from me in reply to this unless there's something else you want to discuss.


Ive already explained why he is a success. You can go on and on and on why you think he is a failure but facts and stats say otherwise. Reigns is a success and theres nothing you can do to change that.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Showstopper said:


>


Man is a superstar! His promo on Monday was sooo good


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Mainly talking about his run as a heel.
> 
> Depends on how you define clean. Seth, Finn, Brock, and Lashley, I'd agree.
> 
> The rest? Nah, at least not one on one. Ambrose never pinned him, only in that Shield Triple Threat... which a triple threat win will always have a bit of an asterisk. KO I can't remember ever beating Roman clean, was always some sort of interference. Braun never beat Roman clean either, although did pin him in the Shield vs. Wyatt match if you count that (same thing as the triple threat situation though).
> 
> Reigns is almost always protected in defeat though in some way. Take the four one on one losses he took. The Finn thing happened after the drug suspension, and since then Reigns always beat Balor. Lashley beat him, but then Reigns gets the win back in the match that actually mattered. Lost to Brock, but then took the title anyway later in the year. Seth beat him in the gauntlet match, but I believe that was same week Reigns won the chamber (to go to Mania to face Lesnar if I'm not getting my facts mixed up).
> 
> On top of that, beating every legend under the sun. If Austin did/does agree to work more, eventually he's doing the job for Roman too.
> 
> As I said though, it's been his booking as a heel that's earned him that status of "most protected". The guy hasn't been pinned in over 2 years. Even Austin and Rock at their peaks, as far bigger stars than Reigns will ever be, and as faces, took some type of pinfall loss (Austin less so in 1998-1999, but it did happen). Reigns basically just runs through absolutely everyone, with many of those wins clean. Can't even take a loss here and there in multi-man matches. Look at when he wrestled twice on Raw a few months back and won both matches. He could've taken the fall for Big E there to help Big E get his reign off to a solid start, instead of as a loser (and then it's compounded when Reigns beats him at Survivor Series).
> 
> Most protected certainly is arguable though, since I'm sure Hogan was just as much if not more so during his run in the 80's. With that said, Hogan was actually a face megastar and brought business to new heights in popularity. Reigns has dragged it to new lows.
> 
> 
> 
> You can keep lying to yourself but the facts say otherwise. WWE is at an all-time low in viewership and Reigns has never led to any true increase since he became a top guy in 2015. Facts are facts, Reigns is a huge failure.


Who realistically could have been out in Reigns' position and succeeded though, this was going to happen no matter what because WWE's creative has been down the drain for the better part of 12-15 years. At least Reigns is somewhat marketable.


----------



## OwenSES

Undesirable to Undeniable!!


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## God Movement

Strap the rocket to Rhodes.


----------



## Goku

Soul Man Danny B said:


> I'm going to be _that_ guy...
> 
> In 2014, going up against the NCAA men's basketball championship, the Raw after WM30 had 5.31 million viewers in the first hour.
> 
> I guess me and my friend Mark stopped watching.


I might be your friend Mark.


----------



## Sincere

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Guess the chart has to school you again.


Sasha and Bianca marks on suicide watch. Bianca in particular just absolutely tanking viewership. Roman barely making any difference.

Fucking lol.










KO, Rollins, and Cody having to carry the dead weight.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

YouTube Numbers:



Omos with 1.7M views?


----------



## Sincere

The Boy Wonder said:


> Omos with 1.7M views?


Probably mostly about Lashley.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Sincere said:


> Probably mostly about Lashley.


As much as i like Lashley, its not just him. Obviously the MVP turn helps the views. But Omos segments has been getting good views lately. His 1 on 1 match with Azeez got over 2m views and the most watched segment on Youtube that week.

Although hardcore fans don't usually like monsters like him, casuals are very intrigued. When do you ever see a man that tall and thick in real everyday life. I don't think i have...


----------



## RainmakerV2

Sincere said:


> Probably mostly about Lashley.


A lot of the middle easterners who think it's real..(just check the comments they leave) love the circus acts like Omos.


----------



## Sincere

Dark Emperor said:


> As much as i like Lashley, its not just him. Obviously the MVP turn helps the views. But Omos segments has been getting good views lately. His 1 on 1 match with Azeez got over 2m views and the most watched segment on Youtube that week.
> 
> Although hardcore fans don't usually like monsters like him, casuals are very intrigued. When do you ever see a man that tall and thick in real everyday life. I don't think i have...


I can definitely see how Omos might appeal to or be interesting to certain fans. But Bobby tends to get pretty good reactions from live audiences, and IIRC that Raw audience was reacting quite good for him, plus he just recently returned. So I figured all of that has something to do with it, too.


----------



## Blonde

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Dude got plenty of reactions during the match, plus a good pop when he won.
> 
> You don't have to make things up because you don't like him.


y'all call anything a pop these days


----------



## DammitChrist

Rhhodes said:


> y'all call anything a pop these days


Bron Breakker also got "we want Ziggler" chants and "not my champ" chants last night during both of his segments anyway.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Bron Breakker also got "we want Ziggler" chants and "not my champ" chants last night during both of his segments anyway.


We're also talking about a crowd that booed Cameron Grimes and called Tony D'Angelo boring. Let's not pretend that was any regular NXT crowd.


----------



## thorwold

Was a bold move putting the self-proclaimed needle mover in the third hour of Raw against the NCAA. I bet they were hoping for better than this 😬


----------



## Sincere

Rhhodes said:


> y'all call anything a pop these days


And they think every "pop" means overness, too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Pitiful quarter for Roman. Probably would’ve done better if they used Q4 to set up KO vs. Ezekiel to close the show .


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Cody will be on SD to save the viewership:









Cody Rhodes Scheduled For WWE SmackDown This Week


Cody Rhodes made his big return to WWE at WrestleMania and he was on RAW as well. Following Rhodes' RAW return, he was on WWE The Bump, but his time on




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Still can't believe the 2nd Quarter-Hour (8:15-8:30PM) when Seth interrupted Cody saw a nice increase from the very first Quarter Hour of the night; especially when that first Quarter-Hour was a returning Cody Rhodes cutting a promo. Great sign for both Seth and Cody going forward for sure. Also, even if the ratings weren't good now but the product was exactly the same; RAW is in really good spot right now. The roster continues to be the best roster in WWE and continues to get more and more loaded. Absolutely love it and the direction of the show these days. This show is LOADED.

Also, RAW's official Facebook page has a new banner up, and Seth and Cody are front and center; as they should be. 
:


----------



## DammitChrist

5 out of those 6 names deserve to be on the banner too


----------



## RainmakerV2

"Cody's promos are too long and use too many big words!!!"

_gains 130k in viewership over course of promo_


----------



## Not Lying

thorwold said:


> Was a bold move putting the self-proclaimed needle mover in the third hour of Raw against the NCAA. I bet they were hoping for better than this 😬


Terrible quarter for Roman. Terrible. Here is your undisputed double champion ladies and gentlemen. 700K+ people thought "Fuck it, I don't give a damn what he has to say".
Nah, but it was a bold move. They usually position him in better time-slots so he looks good, but they can't hide his mediocre star-power forever.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Terrible quarter for Roman. Terrible. Here is your undisputed double champion ladies and gentlemen. 700K+ people thought "Fuck it, I don't give a damn what he has to say".
> Nah, but it was a bold move. They usually position him in better time-slots so he looks good, but they can't hide his mediocre star-power forever.


The dude who has the strongest (forced) push out of any full-timer in the company over the past couple of decades AND who just won BOTH world championships in his 6th Wrestlemania main-event receiving the 2nd lowest quarterly ratings on the show for both the overall viewership PLUS the demographic numbers is freaking hilarious.


----------



## Spartan117

Good post-WM Raw rating, especially as the second half was up against a game that did over 17 million viewers and over a 4 in the demo. They could've likely hit a higher number if not for the very strong competition.

Last year did have a bigger bump compared to this year despite a lower overall number though. Raw post-WM37 had a 19% increase from the go home. Raw post-WM38 only had a 6% increase but that's also because the go home Raw did incredibly well this year so that likely ate into whatever post-WM bump they got. There likely wasn't much to gain this year compared to last year.

We enter Q2 which is usually the pullback quarter before the Summer.

*Raw ratings for Q2 in 2021:

April Avg: *1.852 million
*April Avg (post-WM): *1.902 million
*May Avg:* 1.739 million
*June Avg:* 1.668 million
*Q2 Avg:* 1.756 million

The pullback last year was 5% for Q2. That would mean Raw needs to hit an average of 1.674 million for this coming quarter in order to have a similar pullback to last year. However of note is that April last year was up over March, and most of the hurt came towards end of May onward. They basically got destroyed starting May 24th into early July. So we'll see how Raw fares overall as Raw actually performed impressively coming out of WM in 2021 and then did badly later. They've started well this year, but that was the post-WM Raw and doesn't mean much for the coming weeks.

The number to beat overall for Q2 is 1.674 million. A lower average than would mean Raw has done poorly. That's for the entire quarter though, and not month by month.

It seems like Reigns is going to be on Smackdown moving forward, so we will now see what kind of impact Cody actually has immediately. As I said a couple weeks ago, this is a rare occurrence since we can easily determine the kind of star power he brings very quickly since Raw's trend is pretty clear. We already know from how bad Q4 was that the existing stars on Raw did nothing for the trend which was weak until Brock came along. Any positive changes here would indicate strongly that Cody is the primary driver.

The key point now is to determine what level of ratings they establish in the coming weeks. Reference for last year's post-WM Raws heading into Wrestlemania Backlash:

*Raw 2021:

April 12 Episode: *2.026 million
*April 19 Episode:* 1.907 million
*April 26 Episode:* 1.774 million
*May 3 Episode:* 1.872 million
*May 10 Episode:* 1.820 million

April 12th was the post-WM Raw for reference. Last year Raw started taking a big hit towards the end of May (specifically May 24th). If Raw is to perform similarly to 2021 (as in follow the YOY trend), that would mean it needs to hit around 1.816 million as an average for April. That number is key for April. Obviously that's lower than 2021 but it would be in line with the YOY trend so would be a solid result to start in this quarter.

1.75 million average for April would be okay, but could also indicate a bad sign for May/June. May is the month where the hurt usually comes, so they need a strong April in order to counter whatever damage may happen later. Less than a 1.75-1.8 million average for April would also indicate Cody has had no actual effect, and Raw is just following the historic trend YOY.

Decline is usually a taper, so the Raw tomorrow needs to pull a 1.9 million number in order for them to show a good start. That'd be in line with how things went last year coming out of WM. I'm giving more leeway this year since Raw's go home was very strong, and there is no Reigns either. If it was actually in line with 2021, a closer to 2 million number would be expected here. If they fall to below 1.8 million already, that'd be a bad number as it'd mean April may not be a strong month like in 2021 (and prior years), and that is not a good sign for May and June which are historically tougher months.

Cody time basically. Let's see if there was any actual hype for the man.


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## DUSTY 74

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/u0k1ul


----------



## Spartan117

DUSTY 74 said:


> View attachment 120340


Lol, I just posted this in General WWE section! I saw it on r/SquaredCircle. Why'd you post it here? You should've made a thread! But this is basically the WWE financials breakdown. The Reigns era is the most successful whether it's DTC or B2B. Nothing new. Must hurt some people here a lot though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Very convenient to not post here this past Tuesday afternoon. Talk about hurt.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513967559950876675


The Definition of Technician said:


> Terrible quarter for Roman. Terrible. Here is your undisputed double champion ladies and gentlemen. 700K+ people thought "Fuck it, I don't give a damn what he has to say".
> Nah, but it was a bold move. They usually position him in better time-slots so he looks good, but they can't hide his mediocre star-power forever.


*Didn't you concede after the draft last year that the last segment in hour 3 is the death slot? So what you're saying now is Becky and Seth are officially the worst draws of all time since their main events hit record lows this year, right?*


----------



## RainmakerV2

1.8 millon..BUT the highest hour was the second hour by far. Will be interesting quarters.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The best show in WWE delivers again. Second Hour was highest, and that was Seth/Cody hour of their interaction. 

1.803 million. .54 demo.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513967559950876675
> 
> *Didn't you concede after the draft last year that the last segment in hour 3 is the death slot? So what you're saying now is Becky and Seth are officially the worst draws of all time since their main events hit record lows this year, right?*


Don’t you think at least the main event segment post-WM consisting for the historical first appearance of the double champion who just slayed the beast after a hyped WM should draw more?
If that’s the case, I’m fine with it, but then nobody should be expected to draw in the 3rd hour at all if this scenario doesn’t draw.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513974977858576384
*This show definitely needed Cody.*



The Definition of Technician said:


> Don’t you think at least the main event segment post-WM consisting for the historical first appearance of the double champion who just slayed the beast after a hyped WM should draw more?
> If that’s the case, I’m fine with it,


*Not without The Rock tease at WrestleMania, no. 




but then nobody should be expected to draw in the 3rd hour at all if this scenario doesn’t draw.

Click to expand...

**Yeah, we both literally agreed to this in October. *


----------



## chronoxiong

Cody brought something fresh to the show for sure. I noticed it tremendously. He has a ton of new opponents now especially since this is his real persona. Not as Stardust


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Apparently WWE now stands for “We Want Ezekiel”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513985308546813964


----------



## Fearless Viper

So all the 3 hrs topped the chart. Thats what all matters.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Surprised they didn't stay over 2 million viewers. Here are the quarter-hours:


----------



## RainmakerV2

So the Cody announcement at 9 popped 150k viewers almost.


----------



## DammitChrist

Even though Raw's number is above-average; the quarterly breakdowns for this week is pretty much the most ordinary/basic one that I've seen in a long while 

Pretty much everything else on the show was consistent and held up fine.

The 3rd hour took the expected dip.

Edit:

However, the demographic numbers throughout the 3 hours look stronger overall though.


----------



## DaSlacker

Drop that third hour indefinitely, maintain the consistency it has right now and this show would be back averaging 2 million within a few months. 

Get why WWE keeps the third hour - it's money lol. Not sure why USA keeps it. They could use Raw as a lead in to original content or whatever whilst maintaining a stronger number for its prime asset.


----------



## Randy Lahey

This past week is the only week Raw had no sports competition. Beginning next week and thru June they will be against the NBA playoffs where they’ll tank


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

The Boy Wonder said:


> Surprised they didn't stay over 2 million viewers. Here are the quarter-hours:


Damn more viewers watched Liv vs Naomi than Liv vs Sasha(from Smackdown)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> This past week is the only week Raw had no sports competition. Beginning next week and thru June they will be against the NBA playoffs where they’ll tank


And they'll still outdraw the shit out of Dynamite.


----------



## KingofKings1524

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Damn more viewers watched Liv vs Naomi than Liv vs Sasha(from Smackdown)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not possible. Sasha is the biggest draw of the last 20 years.


----------



## Teemu™

Not a good sign. Cody's drawing power already suffering.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Shoutouts to the women carrying again.*


----------



## ClintDagger

DaSlacker said:


> Get why WWE keeps the third hour - it's money lol. *Not sure why USA keeps it.*


Rights fees.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RAW is riding the Cody train right now and I'm here for it. Him and Seth are carrying the show; whether it be ratings (remember all of those weeks before WM when the Seth segments would be the highest on the show), or best segments of the night from a quality standpoint. Best feud in the company right now and nothing comes close.


----------



## .christopher.

The Boy Wonder said:


> Surprised they didn't stay over 2 million viewers.


lol


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit Lioness said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513974977858576384
> *This show definitely needed Cody.
> 
> 
> Not without The Rock tease at WrestleMania, no.
> 
> 
> Yeah, we both literally agreed to this in October. *



I need you to absolve Liv/Becky doing a terrible hour now


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> I need you to absolve Liv/Becky doing a terrible hour now


*I mostly did it to point out the double standard that's used against Roman, BUT, it was a title match, which people have tuned into late! It also had Trish and Lita hyping it up on the anniversary of their main event.*


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Top YouTube Videos from RAW:

Cody Rhodes vs The Miz (1.1M)
Lashley, MVP and Omos (1M)
Miz TV w/Cody (816K)
Bianca and Sonya (802K)
Street Profits vs The Usos (700K)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Cody, Miz, Rollins Youtube video is now over 1.1 million views.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Showstopper said:


> RAW is riding the Cody train right now and I'm here for it. Him and Seth are carrying the show; whether it be ratings (remember all of those weeks before WM when the Seth segments would be the highest on the show), or best segments of the night from a quality standpoint. Best feud in the company right now and nothing comes close.


I like Cody and Seth, but 1.8m aint that impressive dude. What are you smoking lol.

That's the standard number they will hope to maintain before NFL starts. So to fall to that already one week after Mania is not a sign of anyone drawing.

Cody is obviously bringing interest but so is Lashley, who's segment is also over 1m on Youtube and only 100k behind Cody's who is very fresh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dark Emperor said:


> I like Cody and Seth, but 1.8m aint that impressive dude. What are you smoking lol.
> 
> That's the standard number they will hope to maintain before NFL starts. So to fall to that already one week after Mania is not a sign of anyone drawing.
> 
> Cody is obviously bringing interest but so is Lashley, who's segment is also over 1m on Youtube and only 100k behind Cody's who is very fresh.


You might want to take a look at the chart, dude. All three hours are the top 3 most watched hours of all of Cable TV on Monday night in the all-important demo.

Seth's segments have been either the first or second most watched segments for months now, as well.

So...no.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> You might want to take a look at the chart, dude. All three hours are the top 3 most watched hours of all of Cable TV on Monday night in the all-important demo.
> 
> Seth's segments have been either the first or second most watched segments for months now, as well.
> 
> So...no.


If fairness, those ratings are just original shows. Raw, AEW and sport is basically competing with bottom of the barrel stuff such as Real Housewives, Below Deck, Pawn Stars and 90 Day. 

Regular TV doesn't fair well either. NBC didn't even hit 2 million viewers and both Fox and ABC max out at 5 million viewers on a good day. 

So by the metrics WWE Raw is fairing better than most. But it's difficult to see a future for linear TV in 10-15 years.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> If fairness, those ratings are just original shows. Raw, AEW and sport is basically competing with bottom of the barrel stuff such as Real Housewives, Below Deck, Pawn Stars and 90 Day.
> 
> Regular TV doesn't fair well either. NBC didn't even hit 2 million viewers and both Fox and ABC max out at 5 million viewers on a good day.
> 
> So by the metrics WWE Raw is fairing better than most. But it's difficult to see a future for linear TV in 10-15 years.


And at the same time, if they were losing to these shows, we'd all be shitting on them. I'm sure in 10-15 years, alot of these shows will be on streaming networks, or whatever the latest technology is by that point.

In the weeks and months leading up to Dynamite moving to TBS, there were legitimately multiple people in the AEW section saying that Dynamite would be _averaging_ 1.3-1.5 million viewers per week. They haven't even come close to hitting those numbers once since moving to TBS; let alone to "average" that number. I just find it rich that some of those folks are the same people that try to be critical of a 3 hour show that ends an hour later into the evening that does double the number of their favorite show. But, whatever.


----------



## ClintDagger

DaSlacker said:


> If fairness, those ratings are just original shows. Raw, AEW and sport is basically competing with bottom of the barrel stuff such as Real Housewives, Below Deck, Pawn Stars and 90 Day.
> 
> Regular TV doesn't fair well either. NBC didn't even hit 2 million viewers and both Fox and ABC max out at 5 million viewers on a good day.
> 
> So by the metrics WWE Raw is fairing better than most. But it's difficult to see a future for linear TV in 10-15 years.


WWE’s demos are awful so measuring them by any demo component is foolish. Advertisers don’t care what the ages are of low income & low educated viewers. Where WWE stacks up in overall viewers is what actually matters to the networks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Demos are awful, but all 3 hours of RAW dominate the top 3 slots every Monday Night. Got it. Can't speak for SD.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I'm interested to see if the return of Better Call Saul last night that aired from 9-11PM affected RAW at all. It's also the last season of the show, too.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Will there be numbers today with the Easter Holiday?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Woof. Too bad, show got really good reviews from alot of people, too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516510483343364098


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*It's back to business as usual. Keep Cody at the 9:00 hour for optimal results.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516510483343364098*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Well, at least the show itself is good now and actually watchable. Pretty much the only watchable show WWE has at the moment.


----------



## Smark1995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516510483343364098


----------



## Smark1995

This is just a terrible rating!


----------



## Kishido

Terrible rating. Nothing to discuss about. 

The lack star power. And no... Cody isn't enough.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Still almost double what Dynamite does; and that's with NBA Playoffs and Better Call Saul head to head competition.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516432341077475333

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516511412281036805

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516512089455484932
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## holy

They really screwed up by tossing Cody in there with someone like The Miz who is a bit of a jobber.

Cody/Seth is fine: Seth is an established main eventer. Cody/Owens is fine too.

But matches and segments with guys like The Miz will quickly cut Cody's momentum in half.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516511412281036805
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516512089455484932
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, would be nice if the show had a World Champion. Absolutely DUMB to unify the World Titles. I said people would shit on the idea in about 2 months, instead it took 2 weeks.

Awful decision that helped absolutely no one and nothing in the end. Go figure.


----------



## Frost99

Let's not forget the OG Brand Spilt in 02, while HHH defended against Hogan on SD on RAW you had Austin vs Taker for the contenders, in May while Hogan defended against Taker you had HHH/Y2J their WM Backlash feud along with Edge/Angle Hair for Hair and then Austin/Flair. In June you had the KOTR tourney while Taker defend against Rock and Hogan vs Angel going on. 

In July you had the 3 way of Angle/Taker & Rock for the title, while RVD vs Brock was a thing and then where would HHH sign with then enter the nWo plus the debut of Cena on PPV etc. In Aug in was Brock vs Rock for the title, HBK/HHH as the co-main event. The last time there were two brands and one undisputed champion 

Leaving star power aside how they were able to manage this was with CLEAR & INTERESTING feuds either personal rivalries or number one contenderships. Would somebody buy VKM the network on Peacock so he could literally copy and paste for a BETTER show?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Inside the NBA which started at 1 am was still in the top 6 lol, jesus.


----------



## Seafort

Frost99 said:


> Let's not forget the OG Brand Spilt in 02, while HHH defended against Hogan on SD on RAW you had Austin vs Taker for the contenders, in May while Hogan defended against Taker you had HHH/Y2J their WM Backlash feud along with Edge/Angle Hair for Hair and then Austin/Flair. In June you had the KOTR tourney while Taker defend against Rock and Hogan vs Angel going on.
> 
> In July you had the 3 way of Angle/Taker & Rock for the title, while RVD vs Brock was a thing and then where would HHH sign with then enter the nWo plus the debut of Cena on PPV etc. In Aug in was Brock vs Rock for the title, HBK/HHH as the co-main event. The last time there were two brands and one undisputed champion
> 
> Leaving star power aside how they were able to manage this was with CLEAR & INTERESTING feuds either personal rivalries or number one contenderships. Would somebody buy VKM the network on Peacock so he could literally copy and paste for a BETTER show?


I’ll call it again.

Next month is when they announce the sale.


----------



## FrankieDs316

ooof not that good of a rating. The Cody honeymoon maybe over already


----------



## DaSlacker

Though I doubt it it's true, if there's any truth in the tidbit about USA wanting a world title then all they need to do is unify the miscard titles and give it a push. 

A Undisputed US/IC title for Lashley, Theory, Owens, Rhodes, Styles, Edge and Rollins to battle it out for.


----------



## Dark Emperor

No surprise, Mania season over. It is what it is.

Only shocking thing is Smackdown seem to maintain their viewership for almost 2 years straight now.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> I’ll call it again.
> 
> Next month is when they announce the sale.


If that happened it would be almost 40 years to the day since Vince McMahon bought it off his dad for $1 million. It's currently worth 4-6 billion, depending on who you ask. 

It makes sense for Comcast to buy it outright before the right fees come up for renewal in 2024 (2026 for the network). By successfully spliting Raw and SmackDown and then pushing the network rights two years later, Vince is in a brilliant negotiating position. At the same time, with linear TV in serious decline and ratings down each year, it might be arrogant to push a sale back another 5 years. They can't rest on their laurels and expect Fox will want SmackDown indefinitely, that NBC won't change direction. If one or both happens then WWE's attractiveness as purely a billion dollar content provider could collapse.


----------



## Cosmo77

Im sick of these ratings wars


----------



## KingofKings1524

Raw finally puts together some entertaining shows and the ratings plummet. For once, they really don’t deserve the drop. I hope Cody doesn’t somehow end up getting blamed for this.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That's terrible, WrestleMania honeymoon period is over though. Back to their usual ratings.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> If that happened it would be almost 40 years to the day since Vince McMahon bought it off his dad for $1 million. It's currently worth 4-6 billion, depending on who you ask.
> 
> It makes sense for Comcast to buy it outright before the right fees come up for renewal in 2024 (2026 for the network). By successfully spliting Raw and SmackDown and then pushing the network rights two years later, Vince is in a brilliant negotiating position. At the same time, with linear TV in serious decline and ratings down each year, it might be arrogant to push a sale back another 5 years. They can't rest on their laurels and expect Fox will want SmackDown indefinitely, that NBC won't change direction. If one or both happens then WWE's attractiveness as purely a billion dollar content provider could collapse.


My thought was that this was a sweet spot in which to pull the trigger on an offer. WWE is not too close to the next content rights deal, it is making record revenue and profits (albeit due to content rights and with an assist from the Saudi tourism ministry). WrestleMania 38 was an outstanding success and something they can champion. WWE can be spun as something that has *never* been bigger or better. They'll say it's bigger and more popular now than in the 80s or 90s. An outstanding buy for a content hungry NBC, Disney, or Netflix. 

So since around last fall, I thought May 2022.


----------



## DammitChrist

KingofKings1524 said:


> Raw finally puts together some entertaining shows and the ratings plummet. For once, they really don’t deserve the drop. I hope Cody doesn’t somehow end up getting blamed for this.


I’ll never understand why the better wrestling shows tend to struggle more with underwhelming ratings. 

It’s just frustrating to see as a fan most of the time because they generally deserve to get higher ratings due to the good quality.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Dark Emperor said:


> Only shocking thing is Smackdown seem to maintain their viewership for almost 2 years straight now.


We all know that reason


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's not surprising at all. Cable lost 9% of it's total subscribers just from 2020 to 2021. Free Network TV doesn't lose subs; it's free. SD does 2 million no matter who is or isn't on the show from top of the roster to the bottom; that's been proven multiple times, including this past week.


----------



## KingofKings1524

I love the idea of the Bloodline having all of the belts, but only if Roman is actually around to defend them or shows up on Raw at least bi weekly. If you’re not going to do that, then have him drop the world title to Cody and be done with it.


----------



## Not Lying

Dark Emperor said:


> No surprise, Mania season over. It is what it is.
> 
> Only shocking thing is Smackdown seem to maintain their viewership for almost 2 years straight now.


SD was getting 1.8-1.9 in May-July 2021.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> SD was getting 1.8-1.9 in May-July 2021.


That was back when Smackdown's quality started to slowly deteriorate too (which honestly began on April 2021).

Honestly, Smackdown deserves to have way worse ratings. It's been such a bad show since late October.


----------



## DaSlacker

Seafort said:


> My thought was that this was a sweet spot in which to pull the trigger on an offer. WWE is not too close to the next content rights deal, it is making record revenue and profits (albeit due to content rights and with an assist from the Saudi tourism ministry). WrestleMania 38 was an outstanding success and something they can champion. WWE can be spun as something that has *never* been bigger or better. They'll say it's bigger and more popular now than in the 80s or 90s. An outstanding buy for a content hungry NBC, Disney, or Netflix.
> 
> So since around last fall, I thought May 2022.


It's definitely perfect timing. Disney would be an interesting one because they are to spend 33 billion on content this year. WWE is like instantly buying over 500 hours of original content per annum, in one swoop. Netflix is a bit more difficult to imagine because buying media assets is new to them.

The only thing that throws it into doubt is Vince McMahon's hold over power and his live to work philosophy. Not that he see WWE as work, as seen by his interview with NcAfee. He's unlikely to retire because it would probably kill him. I do think his plan was to make XFL successful and then walk away from WWE to concentrate on that. Apart from maintaining I'd guess a ceremonial executive producer role and hold on to enough stock to take a position on the new board, post sale. 

Covid killed off his XFL plans.


----------



## Seafort

DaSlacker said:


> It's definitely perfect timing. Disney would be an interesting one because they are to spend 33 billion on content this year. WWE is like instantly buying over 500 hours of original content per annum, in one swoop. Netflix is a bit more difficult to imagine because buying media assets is new to them.
> 
> The only thing that throws it into doubt is Vince McMahon's hold over power and his live to work philosophy. Not that he see WWE as work, as seen by his interview with NcAfee. He's unlikely to retire because it would probably kill him. I do think his plan was to make XFL successful and then walk away from WWE to concentrate on that. Apart from maintaining I'd guess a ceremonial executive producer role and hold on to enough stock to take a position on the new board, post sale.
> 
> Covid killed off his XFL plans.


I suspect he might head an investment group after a WWE sale to purchase an NFL team. Next to producing WWE content and bodybuilding, the NFL is a love of his.


----------



## Kentucky34

Kishido said:


> Terrible rating. Nothing to discuss about.
> 
> The lack star power. And no... Cody isn't enough.


They have the stars. 

They just don't have a world title or support of the company. 

Give Seth, Cody or Owens the same booking as Reigns and the viewership would be much higher. The numbers are fine as they are.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> They have the stars.
> 
> They just don't have a world title or support of the company.
> 
> Give Seth, Cody or Owens the same booking as Reigns and the viewership would be much higher. The numbers are fine as they are.


I think the calculation was made that Raw would be fine without a champion. The show essentially went without one in 2018-2019 when Brock was a part time champion. He showed up sparingly on Raw and never wrestled.


----------



## Kentucky34

Seafort said:


> I think the calculation was made that Raw would be fine without a champion. The show essentially went without one in 2018-2019 when Brock was a part time champion. He showed up sparingly on Raw and never wrestled.


Seth and Kevin could only dream of the push that Brock received. 

All I am saying is that you can't blame this number on the performers.


----------



## Seafort

Kentucky34 said:


> Seth and Kevin could only dream of the push that Brock received.
> 
> All I am saying is that you can't blame this number on the performers.


I’m not. It’s reflective of the overall cable universe and the fact that in the US and Europe, the WWE audience is probably not much larger - if at all - than it was during the New Generation Era’s close in 1996. It just looks bigger because it’s hardcore base travels to PPVs and will sell out stadiums. I’m surprised it took them so long to realize it - it’s why MITB of all shows will be in a stadium. If they really want to - every PPV could be in a stadium and sell out.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Only the NBA beat RAW. First QH was the highest of the night; which was the Seth/Cody promo at 1.873 Million viewers. Good to see Cody and Seth still carrying the show. Not bad for a show with no World Champion:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516517772494262283


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Yeah, the NBA will be not only kicking Raw, SD, NXT in the ass but AEW ratings as well.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516901270682021888

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Rollins/Cody promo the highest QH of the night. No surprise there. So happy these QH's get released now. Rollins has been doing very well in them for awhile now, and Cody too since he jumped over.


----------



## The XL 2

NBA playoffs had its highest opening ratings since 2011. Raw does less than half what they did in 2011. But muh cable is dying. No, they just have zero stars and a horrible written show


----------



## Kentucky34

The XL 2 said:


> NBA playoffs had its highest opening ratings since 2011. Raw does less than half what they did in 2011. But muh cable is dying. No, they just have zero stars and a horrible written show


They have Seth, Cody and Owens


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519042247467151361

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Such a shame to see good shows get the big leg dropped on them by the NBA Playoffs. Oh well. Just keep putting on good shows every week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Eh with the playoffs as long as they stay around 1.6 its okay


----------



## Kentucky34

Roughly the same number year on year.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.44 is low. But it’ll go lower.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Ratings rankings this week for RAW's Demo: (non Sports/News): SD, NXT, AEW can't claim this:

18-49 #1
18-49 F#2
18-49 M#1
12-34 F#1
12-34 M#1


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.44 is low. But it’ll go lower.


At least it won't go to Dynamite levels.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> At least it won't go to Dynamite levels.


Give it time. Raw’s demos are declining year over year at a much higher rate than Dynamite. 

All Dynamite has to do is maintain 0.35-0.40.

Raw will sink below that figure. Just look at the trends of the last 3 years.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Give it time. Raw’s demos are declining year over year at a much higher rate than Dynamite.
> 
> All Dynamite has to do is maintain 0.35-0.40.
> 
> Raw will sink below that figure. Just look at the trends of the last 3 years.


This is pretty much the same number they did this time last year. AEW was doing well over a million on TNT and in their first year and change of existence and they're ALREADY steadily declining...and that's in more homes than RAW and with a 2 hour show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Raw, Dynamite, and Rampage are BOTH good shows that deserve better ratings.

I think we can agree that Smackdown deserves WORSE ratings.


----------



## Seafort

Randy Lahey said:


> Give it time. Raw’s demos are declining year over year at a much higher rate than Dynamite.
> 
> All Dynamite has to do is maintain 0.35-0.40.
> 
> Raw will sink below that figure. Just look at the trends of the last 3 years.


It’s still somewhat of a stretch, but AEW can win simply by maintaining, If WWE were to follow their viewership erosion since 2015, they will catch up to AEW within three years. That said, WWE’s erosion tends to subside for a while, hitting new base thresholds that maintain themselves for many months before falling again. I think we’re at the start of a new maintenance level that will exist for a while - 1.6M to 1.9M.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Seafort said:


> It’s still somewhat of a stretch, but AEW can win simply by maintaining, If WWE were to follow their viewership erosion since 2015, they will catch up to AEW within three years. That said, WWE’s erosion tends to subside for a while, hitting new base thresholds that maintain themselves for many months before falling again. I think we’re at the start of a new maintenance level that will exist for a while - 1.6M to 1.9M.


I was mainly talking about key demo 18-49.

In 2021 during WM season (Jan thru Mar), Raw averaged around a 0.56 demo and that was with Thunderdome shows. 

In 2022 during WM season, that average fell to around 0.45 even with live crowd.

So I think 2023 it’d be reasonable to project 0.37 average during WM season which means Dynamite should be competitive even during peak WWE season and be winning most weeks after that. The key demo that is. The over 50+ and total numbers are pretty much irrelevant when it comes to TV deals. Don’t see AEW coming close to that gap.


----------



## InexorableJourney

RAW is in trouble if even Bobby can't save it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I'm old enough to remember in the months and weeks leading up to Dynamite moving to TBS that certain folks (who I won't mention by name) were saying that once the move to TBS is made that Dynamite will averaging 1.3-1.5 million viewers per week and they're going to beat RAW and this and that and this and that. Well, Dynamite has been on TBS for awhile now and their ratings have actually DECREASED even with being on a Network that is in more homes than TNT or USA, for that matter.

Same people who said RAW wouldn't get a big TV deal this last time around, and then they got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history. Same posters, same people. Always wrong. Always embarrassing themselves and I'll always be here to remind everyone.


----------



## Zappers

2 main stars were coming back. Plus news on Ali was leaked.

Should have been a bit higher imo.


----------



## Chan Hung

Raw was actually good. The rating doesn't accurately reflect the quality, sadly.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> Raw was actually good. The rating doesn't accurately reflect the quality, sadly.


Yep, I feel the same way about Dynamite and Rampage respectively.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Quarter breakdown:


----------



## RainmakerV2

Veer ouch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Elias' younger brother, Ezekiel, in top two quarters of the night, and led to a 100k increase in the final quarter for his match. Elias had the musical talent, but Ezekiel is clearly the star in the family.


----------



## Kentucky34

Rollins brought back the audience in the final segment.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519370666134294528


----------



## DammitChrist

I agree with the reply to that tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519374874363539459
Anyway, I still remember post-Wrestlemania 38 week.


----------



## KingofKings1524

DammitChrist said:


> I agree with the reply to that tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519374874363539459
> Anyway, i still remember post-Wrestlemania 38 week.


That sounds like absolutely no one around here…


----------



## ThirdMan

Oh, the quarter that also had the 24/7 stuff, a recap, and an ad break, TLL? Man, you're ridiculous with this stan nonsense. Grow up.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Bianca peaked viewership, but people lost interest after Sonya's bullshit. Veer straight plummeted ratings.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519459376582459392*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

BIG gain in that final QH from the second to last QH to the final of the night of 100K, 2nd biggest gain of the night, but more impressive since it was 3 hours into the show. Great main-event too, so it was earned.

2 Youtube videos went well over 1 million viewers; the main-event at 1.5 Million (of course) and Becky-Asuka (of course) at 1.2 million. So, good shit all around.


----------



## Zappers

Dam, even Bobby and Omos arm wrestling did well. Did just as well as the other big spots like Asuka's Return and the opener and main event.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The Tribal Chief doesn't just move the needle. He broke it:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521520290542624779*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

1.581 0.38 demo.

Horrible number, and Hour 2 did outdrew Hour 1 in overall viewers. Same in the demo. It did beat everything else outside of the NBA Playoffs, though, so that's good:


----------



## RainmakerV2

Dude I thought it was gonna be lower than that with those last 45 minutes lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Lowest Raw number since DECEMBER. Holy shit  :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521586049339871233


----------



## Cosmo77

Bloodline not making numbers go up lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Roman moving the needle the wrong way, yet again. Total failure.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Also, Thurston said earlier today or last night that he believes RAW is going to get at least 1.5x what they're getting right now. Which would mean RAW would be getting $2.25 BILLION dollars (and possibly more) if what he said is true.

Insane.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman moving the needle the wrong way, yet again. Total failure.


*Nah, when he has far and away the best numbers, you find a way to discredit him and attribute it to someone else, so keep that same energy and blame Veer like a civilized wrestling fan.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521608034233069569
Roman and the women are carrying on YouTube. *


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Nah, when he has far and away the best numbers, you find a way to discredit him and attribute it to someone else, so keep that same energy and blame Veer like a civilized wrestling fan.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521608034233069569
> Roman and the women are carrying on YouTube. *


Roman helps nothing viewership wise, this is proven time and time again. He's moving the needle the wrong way.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman helps nothing viewership wise, this is proven time and time again. He's moving the needle the wrong way.


*Wrong again. His segments were far and away the highest and you still made ridiculous excuses.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Wrong again. His segments were far and away the highest and you still made ridiculous excuses.*


No they’re not lol. Wasn’t even the highest quarter on SD this past week. He’s rarely the highest, let alone “far and away” the highest (which is what they should be given his booking vs. the rest of the roster).


----------



## Randy Lahey

Terrible number but expected based on the last 5 year trend. 

5/3/21- 0.53 (in Thunderdome)
5/2/22- 0.38 (with live fans)

That’s about a 30% demo drop. Now last year at this time the NBA playoffs hadn’t stated yet. When they did, Raw averaged around a 0.45 in late May and June vs NBA. 

So if competing against the NBA, going from
a 0.45 to 0.38 is around 15% drop, which is what Raw drops every year. 

All Dynamite has to do is maintain. Stay in the 0.30 to 0.45 range. Raw will be in that range most weeks from here going forward.


----------



## Randy Lahey

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman helps nothing viewership wise, this is proven time and time again. He's moving the needle the wrong way.


No one is a difference maker on Raw. They are going to lose 15-20% of their 18-49 every year till nothing that is left is old people watching the show.

Cody not a difference maker. Neither is Roman, Rousey, Lesnar. None of them. It’s a dead product.

WWE’s only way to push revenues is Saudi money, or running some one night only gates in the UK. Or Nick Khan getting Peacock to vastly overpay for the network.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Randy Lahey said:


> No one is a difference maker on Raw. They are going to lose 15-20% of their 18-49 every year till nothing that is left is old people watching the show.
> 
> Cody not a difference maker. Neither is Roman, Rousey, Lesnar. None of them. It’s a dead product.
> 
> WWE’s only way to push revenues is Saudi money, or running some one night only gates in the UK. Or Nick Khan getting Peacock to vastly overpay for the network.


No disagreement that nobody's a difference maker.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Meanwhile, RAW still doubles up Dynamite and will be getting over $2 Billion dollars at their next contract renewal. AEW is DOWN this year BIG, despite being a on a bigger network with more households than they were on with TNT this time last year, and on a network now that is in more households than USA Network.

WWE and RAW will ALWAYS have that name recognition when it comes to the TV Networks and streaming networks. That is a HUGE advantage that WWE holds over anyother wrestling promotion in the world. Will be interesting to see if TBS even wants to keep AEW given how much AEW has fallen in their move from TNT to TBS. Huge failure. Remember, someone here told us for weeks that RAW would get a huge decrease last time around, and literally the EXACT opposite happened, and RAW got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history. And that's going to happen once again according to Thurston.


----------



## DammitChrist

I come back home from a lengthy and tiring exam just in time to see that fairly mediocre number featuring that collosal flop who failed to move the needle yet again 

He's such a failure 😂


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> No one is a difference maker on Raw.


Seth Rollins outdrew the FOTC this week despite being in hour 2.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Outdrew everything else except NBA. Not bad at all. What matters is their placement in the chart table and they've don't a very great job at that. Same thing with Dynamite as well. Dunno about Rampage and Nxt though.


----------



## DaSlacker

Showstopper said:


> Meanwhile, RAW still doubles up Dynamite and will be getting over $2 Billion dollars at their next contract renewal. AEW is DOWN this year BIG, despite being a on a bigger network with more households than they were on with TNT this time last year, and on a network now that is in more households than USA Network.
> 
> WWE and RAW will ALWAYS have that name recognition when it comes to the TV Networks and streaming networks. That is a HUGE advantage that WWE holds over anyother wrestling promotion in the world. Will be interesting to see if TBS even wants to keep AEW given how much AEW has fallen in their move from TNT to TBS. Huge failure. Remember, someone here told us for weeks that RAW would get a huge decrease last time around, and literally the EXACT opposite happened, and RAW got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history. And that's going to happen once again according to Thurston.


According to wiki USA Network is in slightly more homes than TBS. 

It was also predicted in same report that AEW would get 4.5 times their previous deal, though personally I doubt that. 

Dynamite might be down in the ratings but it's still top 5 demo. A year ago they didn't have a taped show in a later slot on a Friday doing a decent demo, here and there. Then you've got all the additional tie in's - Punk, Danielson, Hardy etc collectively have a very strong social media presence. Unlike TNA a decade ago, this is weekly live shows in basketball size arenas. For 45 million per year it's a steal tbf. Big Bang Theory rights cost 90 million per year and Star Wars cable rights cost 22 million per year. Wrestling comes with picture in picture, no off seasons, dedicated paying fanbase, regular discussion and the ability to add countess spin-offs. 

WWE Raw isn't doing too bad either. It had similar to more viewers and a much bigger demo than anything on NBC on Monday night.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> According to wiki USA Network is in slightly more homes than TBS.
> 
> It was also predicted in same report that AEW would get 4.5 times their previous deal, though personally I doubt that.
> 
> Dynamite might be down in the ratings but it's still top 5 demo. A year ago they didn't have a taped show in a later slot on a Friday doing a decent demo, here and there. Then you've got all the additional tie in's - Punk, Danielson, Hardy etc collectively have a very strong social media presence. Unlike TNA a decade ago, this is weekly live shows in basketball size arenas. For 45 million per year it's a steal tbf. Big Bang Theory rights cost 90 million per year and Star Wars cable rights cost 22 million per year. Wrestling comes with picture in picture, no off seasons, dedicated paying fanbase, regular discussion and the ability to add countess spin-offs.
> 
> WWE Raw isn't doing too bad either. It had similar to more viewers and a much bigger demo than anything on NBC on Monday night.


It is troubling they got all these big names (Punk, Bryan, Cole, and others) are also on a bigger Network than last year, and are doing considerably worse. That's what makes me laugh about some posts you read in here. You'd think by what you read from some that they're on the top of the world, but aren't even close, and that's with a bunch of huge upgrades from last year in terms of Network and talent acquired.

In a word, it's bullshit.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The math simple for anyone but Showstopper. 

If Dynamite is a (0.30 - 0.45) demo show, and Raw is a (0.30 - 0.45) demo show, then either Dynamite is worth way more than what TBS is paying, or Raw is worth way less than what USA is paying, or both.

It’s definitely the latter for sure, as Meltzer had mentioned many times how Peacock way way way overpaid for The Network in comparison to what ESPN+ paid for UFC. In fact, Peacock had taken a huge loss while ESPN was a huge winner in their deals


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> No they’re not lol. Wasn’t even the highest quarter on SD this past week. He’s rarely the highest, let alone “far and away” the highest (which is what they should be given his booking vs. the rest of the roster).


*Not you trying to rewrite history. Reigns has been far and away the highest quarter within the last month, only 34k behind a cage match OPENER last week, and he's missed two weeks between that.*


The Legit Lioness said:


> *Roman and Sasha carrying as per usual.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519102273619644420*





M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594


----------



## DammitChrist

He got the 2nd lowest rated quarterly segment on the biggest Raw episode of the year just 24 hours after Night 2 of Wrestlemania 38 ended.

That alone is alarming for a major non-draw.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Not you trying to rewrite history. Reigns has been far and away the highest quarter within the last month, only 34k behind a cage match OPENER last week, and he's missed two weeks between that.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234250561646594


You just proved my point. Thank you.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

DammitChrist said:


> Raw, Dynamite, and Rampage are BOTH good shows that deserve better ratings.
> 
> I think we can agree that Smackdown deserves WORSE ratings.


This weeks RAW sucked though


----------



## KingofKings1524

DammitChrist said:


> He got the 2nd lowest rated quarterly segment on the biggest Raw episode of the year just 24 hours after Night 2 of Wrestlemania 38 ended.
> 
> That alone is alarming for a major non-draw.


I’m sure that had nothing to do with the National Championship game. I was at the show and I couldn’t make it out fast enough to catch the end of the game at the bar next to the arena.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> Meanwhile, RAW still doubles up Dynamite and will be getting over $2 Billion dollars at their next contract renewal. AEW is DOWN this year BIG, despite being a on a bigger network with more households than they were on with TNT this time last year, and on a network now that is in more households than USA Network.
> 
> WWE and RAW will ALWAYS have that name recognition when it comes to the TV Networks and streaming networks. That is a HUGE advantage that WWE holds over anyother wrestling promotion in the world. Will be interesting to see if TBS even wants to keep AEW given how much AEW has fallen in their move from TNT to TBS. Huge failure. Remember, someone here told us for weeks that RAW would get a huge decrease last time around, and literally the EXACT opposite happened, and RAW got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history. And that's going to happen once again according to Thurston.


That's not entirely true.

AEW aren't down big at all. I reckon if you did an average, they're probably up this year when compared to last year and the year before.

But you're right that WWE have the name recognition. Because that's basically all they have.

Their product is vile and their talent is restricted. It's not hard to see why fans stopped watching live on cable years ago. It's a complete waste of anyone's time. Even just watching a WWE show, you almost get the slight feeling that the fans are only there because "Hey, WWE is in town" as opposed to people actually wanting to go and enjoy something they're passionate about.

Considering AEW are getting a brand new show on TBS, I'd imagine they're doing just fine and it's not all doom and gloom that most people, noticeably WWE fans, think.

Just my two cents, I don't tend to venture into any ratings thread.


----------



## Kentucky34

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> This weeks RAW sucked though


Reigns's segment did. 

The rest was mostly good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> That's not entirely true.
> 
> AEW aren't down big at all. I reckon if you did an average, they're probably up this year when compared to last year and the year before.
> 
> But you're right that WWE have the name recognition. Because that's basically all they have.
> 
> Their product is vile and their talent is restricted. It's not hard to see why fans stopped watching live on cable years ago. It's a complete waste of anyone's time. Even just watching a WWE show, you almost get the slight feeling that the fans are only there because "Hey, WWE is in town" as opposed to people actually wanting to go and enjoy something they're passionate about.
> 
> Considering AEW are getting a brand new show on TBS, I'd imagine they're doing just fine and it's not all doom and gloom that most people, noticeably WWE fans, think.
> 
> Just my two cents, I don't tend to venture into any ratings thread.


Well, they were certainly doing over a million consistently on TNT before moving to TBS. Now, they do consistently under a million practically every week with a bigger potential audience on TBS with bigger name talent acquisitions (from WWE, of course) in guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole. So, I don't think people are exactly hot for AEW's product these days, either. And they really have no excuse with more freedom and a much younger boss.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

KingofKings1524 said:


> I’m sure that had nothing to do with the National Championship game. I was at the show and I couldn’t make it out fast enough to catch the end of the game at the bar next to the arena.


The other day in SD thread you wanted to know if Reigns should get credit for the SD rating. Well, it did the worst demo in SD on FOX history. Does he still get credit for that?


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> Well, they were certainly doing over a million consistently on TNT before moving to TBS. Now, they do consistently under a million practically every week with a bigger potential audience on TBS with bigger name talent acquisitions (from WWE, of course) in guys like Punk, Bryan, and Cole. So, I don't think people are exactly hot for AEW's product these days, either. And they really have no excuse with more freedom and a much younger boss.


I thought I'd just crunch the numbers so we could see. It looks like their average since moving to TBS is 989,352.

Their average last year was 873,057. 

That's based on whether or not these numbers are correct: Complete AEW Dynamite TV Ratings & Viewership(US) - ITN WWE

So, over 100,000 more viewers this year on average to last year. Now of course last year for a portion they were competing alongside NXT in the same timeslot, they were pre-empted a few times and moved to different days which can of course skew the numbers, but if we look at it flat on the surface, that's an increase.

As you rightly put it, WWE is the company with name recognition. So even comparing ratings is silly between the two companies. Especially when one is a juggernaut with over 50+ years of history and the other has barely been on screen for 3 years, with zero name value to it's brand and very very very little of the market share.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> I thought I'd just crunch the numbers so we could see. It looks like their average since moving to TBS is 989,352.
> 
> Their average last year was 873,057.
> 
> That's based on whether or not these numbers are correct: Complete AEW Dynamite TV Ratings & Viewership(US) - ITN WWE
> 
> So, over 100,000 more viewers this year on average to last year. Now of course last year for a portion they were competing alongside NXT in the same timeslot, they were pre-empted a few times and moved to different days which can of course skew the numbers, but if we look at it flat on the surface, that's an increase.
> 
> As you rightly put it, WWE is the company with name recognition. So even comparing ratings is silly between the two companies. Especially when one is a juggernaut with over 50+ years of history and the other has barely been on screen for 3 years, with zero name value to it's brand and very very very little of the market share.


This year on TBS, they also have the West Coast viewers back live, which they didn't have late last year and are on Turner's prime Network and no direct wrestling competition. They also have the new big name acquisitions like Punk and Bryan. They should be doing way better taking all of that into consideration. Fans in the AEW thread were saying AEW would be _averaging_ 1.3-1.5 million once they moved to TBS. They're not even close to that.

The time advantage thing isn't what it used to be. AEW got to debut on a huge market right out of the gate with wrestling history (WCW) which helps, too. I hope AEW does well as it's better for the business, but there are plenty of things to keep an eye on going forward for them.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> This year on TBS, they also have the West Coast viewers back live, which they didn't have late last year and are on Turner's prime Network and no direct wrestling competition. They also have the new big name acquisitions like Punk and Bryan. They should be doing way better taking all of that into consideration. Fans in the AEW thread were saying AEW would be _averaging_ 1.3-1.5 million once they moved to TBS. They're not even close to that.
> 
> The time advantage thing isn't what it used to be. AEW got to debut on a huge market right out of the gate with wrestling history (WCW) which helps, too. I hope AEW does well as it's better for the business, but there are plenty of things to keep an eye on going forward for them.


Depends what you mean by they should be doing better. Cable is a dying market. The fact they've increased their viewership year on year at all is incredible considering the size of the company in comparison to a rival wrestling federation.

Their recent PPV did nearly 40,000 more buys than it did the previous year and nearly 70,000 more buys than the year before that. Yes, they have Punk and Bryan and both of those have shown in merchandise sales (when talking about CM Punk), YouTube numbers, social media gains and PPV buy rates and ticket sales that they are valuable assets to the company. Regardless of whether Bill from Arkansas tuned in live on cable on a Wednesday night.

People need to stop living as if we are in the 1990s when ratings and the demo really were a talking point. As we both know, Raw, Smackdown and Dynamite all do well on their respective nights, usually only bettered by other forms of sports that are more popular than wrestling in 2022. And as long as these shows are doing as well as they are doing on their particular night, the number's ultimately don't matter in a dying market.

Ultimately, we'd all love Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite and Rampage all hitting their best numbers and record numbers but reality is, cable viewers are slowing, their are many more ways to absorb wrestling now than there ever has been, whether it's through the Network, FITE, YouTube, illegal streaming or even just recording the show and watching it at a more convenient time etc.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> Depends what you mean by they should be doing better. Cable is a dying market. The fact they've increased their viewership year on year at all is incredible considering the size of the company in comparison to a rival wrestling federation.
> 
> Their recent PPV did nearly 40,000 more buys than it did the previous year and nearly 70,000 more buys than the year before that. Yes, they have Punk and Bryan and both of those have shown in merchandise sales (when talking about CM Punk), YouTube numbers, social media gains and PPV buy rates and ticket sales that they are valuable assets to the company. Regardless of whether Bill from Arkansas tuned in live on cable on a Wednesday night.
> 
> People need to stop living as if we are in the 1990s when ratings and the demo really were a talking point. As we both know, Raw, Smackdown and Dynamite all do well on their respective nights, usually only bettered by other forms of sports that are more popular than wrestling in 2022. And as long as these shows are doing as well as they are doing on their particular night, the number's ultimately don't matter in a dying market.
> 
> Ultimately, we'd all love Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite and Rampage all hitting their best numbers and record numbers but reality is, cable viewers are slowing, their are many more ways to absorb wrestling now than there ever has been, whether it's through the Network, FITE, YouTube, illegal streaming or even just recording the show and watching it at a more convenient time etc.


I find it funny that you want to say all of the wrestling shows are doing well, but didn’t feel the need to chime in and go at the guy who was shitting on the Raw number harder than anyone else that started this discussion. Many folks, including the journalists had AEW projected to average far more than what they have averaged on TBS thus far, and that’s before some of these big name acquisitions. Interesting.

Anyway you are factually incorrect when you say the rating and especially the demo don’t matter. That is what the networks go by to determine what the next TV contracts are for these shows. The TV money is the highest source of revenue for WWE and AEW. It is literally their life-blood.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Kentucky34 said:


> Reigns's segment did.
> 
> The rest was mostly good.


The only decent moments were the Edge and AJ stuff and the Cody and Seth stuff, everything else was mid at best


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> I find it funny that you want to say all of the wrestling shows are doing well, but didn’t feel the need to chime in and go at the guy who was shitting on the Raw number harder than anyone else that started this discussion. Many folks, including the journalists had AEW projected to average far more than what they have averaged on TBS thus far, and that’s before some of these big name acquisitions. Interesting.
> 
> Anyway you are factually incorrect when you say the rating and especially the demo don’t matter. That is what the networks go by to determine what the next TV contracts are for these shows. The TV money is the highest source of revenue for WWE and AEW. It is literally their life-blood.


I chimed in at the guy who brought up Dynamite's ratings and incorrectly mentioned they were 'down big' that's all.

I wouldn't be so sure that I am factually incorrect here though. Not without looking at history. Now of course ratings will barely have any impact when it comes to the next contract. Unless Raw was starting to hit 200,000 for whatever reason and Dynamite started hitting less than 400,000. Both of which will never happen. 

Raw's demo average last year was 0.49. Do you know what this years is? 0.46

Wrestling shows are _still _the top five watched television shows in their timeslot. Raw's ratings have been declining for nigh on 20 years. Yet they still continuously get ridiculous contracts for their content. Why? Because of the demo. They aren't ranked top five because of their ratings. As we all know.

But you and me are both kidding if we don't believe Raw will get another substantial amount for their television contract when it's up for renewal, even likely get a lot more money. Why? Because of NAME value, like you rightfully put it. Absolutely nothing to do with their current ratings or demos. Which are consistently dropping year on year and have been for a long while.

So regardless of what these so called journalists and many folk thought. AEW are 100,000 viewers up on last year and they are also up on the demo too. 0.38 this year as opposed to 0.32 last year.

In fact, just looking at that, in a dying market, without looking at Smackdown (but I can't imagine it's much better off?), Dynamite is the only wrestling show that's actually grown it's audience. And you could probably thank the likes of Punk and Bryan for that. So it's likely, despite not getting the magical number of a million (Just 12,000 viewers off on average, darn), Dynamite's renewal will likely be for a pretty substantial amount of money too.

Look, we aren't going to agree on any of this.

So what I will say to close off - the Raw number this past week by just looking at it and comparing it to previous years, isn't a good number. But when you factor in the fact that Raw's numbers have been declining year on year regardless and that NBA is destroying everything in the ratings and yet Raw is _still _one of the top watched shows in it's timeslot, then it really doesn't matter what the number is.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> I chimed in at the guy who brought up Dynamite's ratings and incorrectly mentioned they were 'down big' that's all.
> 
> I wouldn't be so sure that I am factually incorrect here though. Not without looking at history. Now of course ratings will barely have any impact when it comes to the next contract. Unless Raw was starting to hit 200,000 for whatever reason and Dynamite started hitting less than 400,000. Both of which will never happen.
> 
> Raw's demo average last year was 0.49. Do you know what this years is? 0.46
> 
> Wrestling shows are _still _the top five watched television shows in their timeslot. Raw's ratings have been declining for nigh on 20 years. Yet they still continuously get ridiculous contracts for their content. Why? Because of the demo. They aren't ranked top five because of their ratings. As we all know.
> 
> But you and me are both kidding if we don't believe Raw will get another substantial amount for their television contract when it's up for renewal, even likely get a lot more money. Why? Because of NAME value, like you rightfully put it. Absolutely nothing to do with their current ratings or demos. Which are consistently dropping year on year and have been for a long while.
> 
> So regardless of what these so called journalists and many folk thought. AEW are 100,000 viewers up on last year and they are also up on the demo too. 0.38 this year as opposed to 0.32 last year.
> 
> In fact, just looking at that, in a dying market, without looking at Smackdown (but I can't imagine it's much better off?), Dynamite is the only wrestling show that's actually grown it's audience. And you could probably thank the likes of Punk and Bryan for that. So it's likely, despite not getting the magical number of a million (Just 12,000 viewers off on average, darn), Dynamite's renewal will likely be for a pretty substantial amount of money too.
> 
> Look, we aren't going to agree on any of this.
> 
> So what I will say to close off - the Raw number this past week by just looking at it and comparing it to previous years, isn't a good number. But when you factor in the fact that Raw's numbers have been declining year on year regardless and that NBA is destroying everything in the ratings and yet Raw is _still _one of the top watched shows in it's timeslot, then it really doesn't matter what the number is.


Exactly my point. You try to paint it as if you're unbiased, but only the person critical of one company prompted to post here, and not the other. Interesting.

I’m not so sure Dynamite is up year on year, to be honest. Last year in TNT they were doing over a million pretty consistently. This year has been the exact opposite for the most part. That’s not growing an audience at all, especially on the better network and with some big name acquisitions made in that time period.

RAW will always get a big contract as long as USA Network is around. USA has pretty much nothing else going for it other than RAW.

My argument isn’t that AEW is doing terrible. It isn’t. But it’s not doing great and it’s certainly not doing anywhere near as well as many people (media, fans, journalists) projected it to do before moving to TBS, especially given the circumstances of no more head to head wrestling competition, bigger names on the roster, and getting the West Coast fans back live once moving to TBS.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> Exactly my point. You try to paint it as if you're unbiased, but only the person critical of one company prompted to post here, and not the other. Interesting.
> 
> I’m not so sure Dynamite is up year on year, to be honest. Last year in TNT they were doing over a million pretty consistently. This year has been the exact opposite for the most part. That’s not growing an audience at all, especially on the better network and with some big name acquisitions made in that time period.
> 
> RAW will always get a big contract as long as USA Network is around. USA has pretty much nothing else going for it other than RAW.
> 
> My argument isn’t that AEW is doing terrible. It isn’t. But it’s not doing great and it’s certainly not doing anywhere near as well as many people (media, fans, journalists) projected it to do before moving to TBS, especially given the circumstances of no more head to head wrestling competition, bigger names on the roster, and getting the West Coast fans back live once moving to TBS.


Your original post came across as if you were mentioning AEW and it's ratings as some kind of coping mechanism because your favourite show's ratings have been declining. You may not have posted it under those reasonings, but that was the way it came across. If I am wrong, so be it, I apologise.

You don't have to be sure, I provided the facts.

I have no doubt Raw will get another big contract. So what I said about ratings and demo's isn't factually incorrect then? USA don't really care about Raw's ever declining ratings (as they were declining long before they offered their last mammoth deal). They're just happy they're a top five rated television show in it's time slot. I think TNT/TBS are probably thinking along the same lines too.

I'd argue it's doing great. TNT give them their own specials, give them air time to put on hour long PPV previews on the week before the PPV, they've just greenlighted yet another TV show for them to have and it's the only wrestling company that's actually grown in younger viewers and ratings over the year on average. But that's for another thread.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> Your original post came across as if you were mentioning AEW and it's ratings as some kind of coping mechanism because your favourite show's ratings have been declining. You may not have posted it under those reasonings, but that was the way it came across. If I am wrong, so be it, I apologise.
> 
> You don't have to be sure, I provided the facts.
> 
> I have no doubt Raw will get another big contract. So what I said about ratings and demo's isn't factually incorrect then? USA don't really care about Raw's ever declining ratings (as they were declining long before they offered their last mammoth deal). They're just happy they're a top five rated television show in it's time slot. I think TNT/TBS are probably thinking along the same lines too.
> 
> I'd argue it's doing great. TNT give them their own specials, give them air time to put on hour long PPV previews on the week before the PPV, they've just greenlighted yet another TV show for them to have and it's the only wrestling company that's actually grown in younger viewers and ratings over the year on average. But that's for another thread.


That's because there is a guy that trolls and baits here in this thread every week that is an AEW fan under the grand delusion that AEW is doing the same numbers as WWE. Hence, why I was surprised you didn't got at him, instead. That's fine. We all have our biases. No one is above it.

I saw the numbers, but when you doing a million or better for the better part of an entire year, and the following year do a mostly less than a million, that tells you all you need to know. The year isn't over yet, either. But based on projections and predictions when the TBS move was announced, they are way behind what many predicted. I'd also be concerned that the Tony Khan "huge announcement" ploy has seemed to stop working recently. The uptick in competition in the Fall may hurt, as well. We shall see. I can't agree that doing well under a million every week and the demos they've been doing as great. Especially when, as mentioned earlier, these numbers are way below what everyone was predicting not too long ago once they made the move to TBS.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> That's because there is a guy that trolls and baits here in this thread every week that is an AEW fan under the grand delusion that AEW is doing the same numbers as WWE. Hence, why I was surprised you didn't got at him, instead. That's fine. We all have our biases. No one is above it.
> 
> I saw the numbers, but when you doing a million or better for the better part of an entire year, and the following year do a mostly less than a million, that tells you all you need to know. The year isn't over yet, either. But based on projections and predictions when the TBS move was announced, they are way behind what many predicted. I'd also be concerned that the Tony Khan "huge announcement" ploy has seemed to stop working recently. The uptick in competition in the Fall may hurt, as well. We shall see. I can't agree that doing well under a million every week and the demos they've been doing as great. Especially when, as mentioned earlier, these numbers are way below what everyone was predicting not too long ago once they made the move to TBS.


Like I said, I don't venture in ratings threads often. I was just struck by your post because no one had mentioned you or quoted you. I didn't see anything mentioned about AEW, from the time the ratings from this past weeks Raw was posted to when you mentioned them, that felt out of place in this thread. Someone mentioned Raw's poor demographic this week in relation to some of their demo's of the past and compared it to an AEW demographic. Which is a reasonable debate point.

You're right, the year isn't over yet. But currently on average, which includes last years ratings when they were getting over a million, they are doing better this year. Regardless whether the year isn't over yet or not, currently they are up. We'll likely see it even out over the year but even if they keep up the same ratings they're getting now over the remainder of the year, they'd _still _be up. Being way behind isn't an issue, the fact they are way behind and are still outdoing last year in numbers is still impressive. I guess as you sound very much interested, we'll bring that back up at the end of the year to see if they have continued their growth.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> Like I said, I don't venture in ratings threads often. I was just struck by your post because no one had mentioned you or quoted you. I didn't see anything mentioned about AEW, from the time the ratings from this past weeks Raw was posted to when you mentioned them, that felt out of place in this thread. Someone mentioned Raw's poor demographic this week in relation to some of their demo's of the past and compared it to an AEW demographic. Which is a reasonable debate point.


So, he's allowed to bring AEW into the discussion in a WWE thread, but no one is allowed to respond? Like I said, everyone has biases..



> You're right, the year isn't over yet. But currently on average, which includes last years ratings when they were getting over a million, they are doing better this year. Regardless whether the year isn't over yet or not, currently they are up. We'll likely see it even out over the year but even if they keep up the same ratings they're getting now over the remainder of the year, they'd _still _be up. Being way behind isn't an issue, the fact they are way behind and are still outdoing last year in numbers is still impressive. I guess as you sound very much interested, we'll bring that back up at the end of the year to see if they have continued their growth.


Well, going from doing over a million consistently to under a million consistently on a bigger Network with a bigger name talent roster doesn't exactly scream success to alot of folks. I think that is where the disconnect is. If you were to ask WWE right now if they're happy if AEW is consistently doing under a million this year compared to last year when they were consistently doing over a million, I think they'd prefer to take this year's AEW's ratings compared to last.


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> So, he's allowed to bring AEW into the discussion in a WWE thread, but no one is allowed to respond? Like I said, everyone has biases..
> 
> Well, going from doing over a million consistently to under a million consistently on a bigger Network with a bigger name talent roster doesn't exactly scream success to alot of folks. I think that is where the disconnect is. If you were to ask WWE right now if they're happy if AEW is consistently doing under a million this year compared to last year when they were consistently doing over a million, I think they'd prefer to take this year's AEW's ratings compared to last.


People can discuss whatever they want. But the guy who brought AEW into the discussion only mentioned Raw's demographic and AEW's. Your response had nothing to do with his discussion. It came across as petty because someone dared to criticise your favourite show. That's all. You're asking me why I quoted you and not him specifically and that's exactly why. Because I don't have anything to debate with the other guy in regards to Raw's demographic. He laid it out on a plate. It is rather low in comparison to where it's been and AEW's demo is in the similar ballpark. Whereas you mentioned they were 'down big' which was inaccurate and we're now having a civil discussion on it

Again, define success?

We know it's not ratings that define success because otherwise the WWE would be failing, no?

But let's take viewership and demographics out of the answer, despite both being up on average. 

On _average _their gates are up, their ticket sales are up, their PPV buy rates are up, their merchandise sales are up, they do much better numbers on YouTube now than what they did in the past, their social media views and searches are up in comparison to previous years. What metric do we use to define success?

Money?

Well with AEW not being public, we don't really know how well they're doing in that department. But it's not profit that AEW should be looking to build in it's infancy, it's market share. Which of course has increased ten fold since they formed.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Jeru The Damaja said:


> People can discuss whatever they want. But the guy who brought AEW into the discussion only mentioned Raw's demographic and AEW's. Your response had nothing to do with his discussion. It came across as petty because someone dared to criticise your favourite show. That's all. You're asking me why I quoted you and not him specifically and that's exactly why. Because I don't have anything to debate with the other guy in regards to Raw's demographic. He laid it out on a plate. It is rather low in comparison to where it's been and AEW's demo is in the similar ballpark. Whereas you mentioned they were 'down big' which was inaccurate and we're now having a civil discussion on it


Well, he does far more and has done far more in these threads for years. He also proclaimed that RAW would either get no new TV deal or a much lower one a few year ago when WWE and USA were negotiating. Along with a billion other bizarre and out there at best takes. RAW's demo is better than AEW's and it's better with an extra hour on a night with more competition (especially when NFL season starts which goes head to head with RAW, and not AEW). In reality, they're not in the same stratusphere.



> Again, define success?
> 
> We know it's not ratings that define success because otherwise the WWE would be failing, no?


RAW and SD beat AEW regularly, again with RAW going head to head with tougher competition and a third hour. SD with being on a bad night for TV in general, Fridays. Two problems AEW do not have to deal with.



> But let's take viewership and demographics out of the answer, despite both being up on average.
> 
> On _average _their gates are up, their ticket sales are up, their PPV buy rates are up, their merchandise sales are up, they do much better numbers on YouTube now than what they did in the past, their social media views and searches are up in comparison to previous years. What metric do we use to define success?


Well, taking out factors that are going to determine how much money AEW is going to get in their next TV deal is a big aspect to take out of the equation. But last I heard they're still in the red. Not sure if that is still the case or not, but I haven't heard any updates that they are in the black, and I'm sure if there were the news would be out there by now.



> Money?
> 
> Well with AEW not being public, we don't really know how well they're doing in that department. But it's not profit that AEW should be looking to build in it's infancy, it's market share. Which of course has increased ten fold since they formed.


Profit, generally speaking, does matter most when it comes to businesses. I think AEW is doing decent overall, but there is no question they fall short in some areas, some overstate their success, and the move to TBS hasn't been nearly as successful as many said it would be. At least not yet.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper, what exactly do you not understand about these demo numbers:

Dynamite 
(Jan 2020 - April 2020) Avg Demo: 0.32
(Jan 2021-April 2021) Avg Demo: 0.30
(Jan 2022 - April 2022) Avg Demo: 0.38

Raw 
(Jan 2020 - April 2020) Avg Demo: 0.68
(Jan 2021- April 2021) Avg Demo: 0.58
(Jan 2022- April 2022) Avg Demo: 0.47

The range Dynamite has consistently been in is the zone that Raw is going to fall into.

Raw is losing a consistent amount of 18-49 viewers every year. So is NXT (even switching channels and having no wrestling competition. So is Smackdown).

Dynamite is literally the only show not losing viewers. Then you look at the amount of PPV buys that have increase year to year.


----------



## DammitChrist

Would anyone else agree that Raw and Dynamite (plus Rampage) are both good/fun wrestling shows that deserve better ratings?


----------



## Jeru The Damaja

Showstopper said:


> Well, he does far more and has done far more in these threads for years. He also proclaimed that RAW would either get no new TV deal or a much lower one a few year ago when WWE and USA were negotiating. Along with a billion other bizarre and out there at best takes. RAW's demo is better than AEW's and it's better with an extra hour on a night with more competition (especially when NFL season starts which goes head to head with RAW, and not AEW). In reality, they're not in the same stratusphere.
> 
> RAW and SD beat AEW regularly, again with RAW going head to head with tougher competition and a third hour. SD with being on a bad night for TV in general, Fridays. Two problems AEW do not have to deal with.
> 
> Well, taking out factors that are going to determine how much money AEW is going to get in their next TV deal is a big aspect to take out of the equation. But last I heard they're still in the red. Not sure if that is still the case or not, but I haven't heard any updates that they are in the black, and I'm sure if there were the news would be out there by now.
> 
> Profit, generally speaking, does matter most when it comes to businesses. I think AEW is doing decent overall, but there is no question they fall short in some areas, some overstate their success, and the move to TBS hasn't been nearly as successful as many said it would be. At least not yet.


I haven't been here long enough to know of any of the threads so I can only go off what I have seen. I wasn't picking sides or showing any bias. I was simply replying to the post that I thought was a far more interesting and logical debate, which was yours.

Profit in the long run, yes.

But there are plenty of successful companies that have gone years without making profit. Amazon, Spotify, Uber just to name three world wide names. I don't actually believe Spotify or Uber make any profit at all still. These companies wanted growth over profit in the start. Risky? Of course. But if there's demand out there, you will become successful.

AEW will be profitable in the long run. No doubt about it. They will never reach the height of WWE but that's okay. It doesn't need to. But if they can provide a profitable wrestling organisation that allows other wrestlers to succeed and get paid, all whilst putting out good content, then only wrestling fans can be the winner. Well, I mean, besides the tribalism and all that.


----------



## Kishido

Bad numbers again


----------



## RainmakerV2

When do quarters come out?


----------



## hardcorewrasslin

Do you reckon we’ll hit sub 1.4 next week?

Cody’s return has not been a draw unfortunately


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Top 4 QH's for this week's *RAW*:

*Overall Viewers:*

AJ/Priest: 1.784
Miz/Ali/Theory: 1.684
VEER/EDGE Promo: 1.658
Rollins/Cody: 1.644

*DEMO:*

Theory/Ali/Miz: 539
Rollins/Cody promo: 534
AJ/Priest: 530
Bloodline/RK-Bro/Drew: 520


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521999363131822080


----------



## ThirdMan

Man, they've got to stop with the endless recaps, ad breaks and unrelated (to the main event) backstage segments in the third- or second-to-last quarter hour. I mean, it looks like 80K viewers came back (despite the match having no stakes) when the main-event actually started, but you're just begging viewers to flip over to basketball or something else with all the needless stalling. I mean, they do it on SD as well, but SD's not three hours.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Roman not even the top quarter of his own hour 

3rd hour tanking the show as usual. It's just amazing how badly things can drop off for the last few quarters. Only thing of note is Cody/Rollins actually held up well from the looks of it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Rollins and Cody tried to save the third hour. That drop for Lashley. Eeek.


----------



## RainmakerV2

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman not even the top quarter of his own hour
> 
> 3rd hour tanking the show as usual. It's just amazing how badly things can drop off for the last few quarters. Only thing of note is Cody/Rollins actually held up well from the looks of it.



People obviously hung around for Cody and Rollins and then sharply said bye.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Dynamite did exactly half of what RAW did this week, and that's with a low RAW number. But they're right on WWE's ass.  .


----------



## Cosmo77

When are some of you going to admit that Roman is a Ratings flop.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cosmo77 said:


> When are some of you going to admit that Roman is a Ratings flop.


Yea, I have been claiming that nobody on the current roster is a big TV draw since at least late 2018; but this apparently needs to be emphasized more regarding the current Universal Champion too.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW and Reigns are cooked gooses.


----------



## Cosmo77

AEW isnt cooked wtf are you smokin


----------



## Blonde

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Roman not even the top quarter of his own hour
> 
> 3rd hour tanking the show as usual. It's just amazing how badly things can drop off for the last few quarters. Only thing of note is Cody/Rollins actually held up well from the looks of it.


Veer vs. a jobber outdrew him  and so did Cody & Seth in the third hour.


----------



## FrankieDs316

Cosmo77 said:


> When are some of you going to admit that Roman is a Ratings flop.


Don’t have to because he is not. Also there’s millions of different ways to watch Raw in 2022 then cable TV.


----------



## Cosmo77

Cable tv will be dead in 5 years so this ratings talk is boring


----------



## Kentucky34

Reigns isn't a draw.

Rollins is the best TV draw in the industry.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dynamite is quickly closing the gap in the demo

May 18-20, 2020
Raw: 0.51
Dynamite: 0.26

May 10-13 2021
Raw: 0.53
Dynamite: 0.31

May 17-20 2021
Raw: 0.48
Dynamite: 0.28

May 2-5 2022
Raw: 0.38
Dynamite: 0.32

Warner has to be pleased with these numbers given what they paid. USA is probably irate.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Dynamite is quickly closing the gap in the demo
> 
> May 18-20, 2020
> Raw: 0.51
> Dynamite: 0.26
> 
> May 10-13 2021
> Raw: 0.53
> Dynamite: 0.31
> 
> May 17-20 2021
> Raw: 0.48
> Dynamite: 0.28
> 
> May 2-5 2022
> Raw: 0.38
> Dynamite: 0.32
> 
> Warner has to be pleased with these numbers given what they paid. USA is probably irate.


Dynamite's numbers are pure trash. This week's number was an embarrassment on every level. Warner isn't 'thrilled' with shit. Take that weak ass shit outta here.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I mean, RAW is a THREE HOUR SHOW and they're still absolutely MURDERING a 2 hour show on a BIGGER Network.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

From Cody's IG; RAW is returning to MSG July 25th:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdOz4LFl6H0/


----------



## Not Lying

Showstopper said:


> Dynamite did exactly half of what RAW did this week, and that's with a low RAW number. But they're right on WWE's ass.  .


You're acting no different than @Kentucky34 at this point.

RAW last year had no Rollins, Cody, Becky, Bianca and RKO-Bro was just starting off, they also had *no fans*, and year on year RAW is like 20% down in total numbers and 30% in demo. The boring ass reign of Lashley feuding with Drew/Braun with no fans was doing 250K+ viewers. Do you realize how bad this looks to all you favs when you take context out of it?

The fact that AEW holding steady in viewership year on year (and not your ridiculous Sep 21 vs Apr 22 comparison to pretend they've lost a ton viewers) is strong enough indicator for the future.

No one's saying they're right on RAW's ass except a few idiots, they're well behind but they are growing and holding steady, and RAW is declining despite favorite circumstances (fans are back and more star power). What are you not getting? If your scapegoat is lol "RAW beat AEW in viewership" to feel like it's all good in paradise WWE-Land and ignoring the decline vs resilience/growth of AEW, then be delusional.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're acting no different than @Kentucky34 at this point.
> 
> RAW last year had no Rollins, Cody, Becky, Bianca and RKO-Bro was just starting off, they also had *no fans*, and year on year RAW is like 20% down in total numbers and 30% in demo. The boring ass reign of Lashley feuding with Drew/Braun with no fans was doing 250K+ viewers. Do you realize how bad this looks to all you favs when you take context out of it?
> 
> The fact that AEW holding steady in viewership year on year (and not your ridiculous Sep 21 vs Apr 22 comparison to pretend they've lost a ton viewers) is strong enough indicator for the future.
> 
> No one's saying they're right on RAW's ass except a few idiots, they're well behind but they are growing and holding steady, and RAW is declining despite favorite circumstances (fans are back and more star power). What are you not getting? If your scapegoat is lol "RAW beat AEW in viewership" to feel like it's all good in paradise WWE-Land and ignoring the decline vs resilience/growth of AEW, then be delusional.


Laughable post, tbh. This dude walked in on this thread a couple days after Dynamite did it's worst number on TBS.

Last year before the move to TBS, we were told that Dynamite would be beating RAW AND that Dynamite would be averaging 1.3-1.5 million viewers because they'd be 1) on a bigger Network and 2) they'd be getting the West Coast viewers back live. They have also added big name talent such as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole (and some others) are actually doing significantly worse than they were doing before the Network move and the talent acquisitions.

If people are going to make sweeping proclamations months in advance, and they're going to go the exact opposite way, AND then come into this thread a day or two after the worst number in months, it's going to get called out, laughed at, and mocked. That will never change. Maybe go at the people who make the ridiculous posts and predictions instead. Sorry.


----------



## Not Lying

Showstopper said:


> Laughable post, tbh. This dude walked in on this thread a couple days after Dynamite did it's worst number on TBS.
> 
> Last year before the move to TBS, we were told that Dynamite would be beating RAW AND that Dynamite would be averaging 1.3-1.5 million viewers because they'd be 1) on a bigger Network and 2) they'd be getting the West Coast viewers back live. They have also added big name talent such as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole (and some others) are actually doing significantly worse than they were doing before the Network move and the talent acquisitions.
> 
> If people are going to make sweeping proclamations months in advance, and they're going to go the exact opposite way, AND then come into this thread a day or two after the worst number in months, it's going to get called out, laughed at, and mocked. That will never change. Maybe go at the people who make the ridiculous posts and predictions instead. Sorry.


So that's it, you're basically bitter Jericho and some AEW diehards thought AEW would be beating RAW at this point? I'm pretty sure almost everyone laughed at Jericho and thought that statement was ridiculous. But you're just using all that as an excuse because you're not addressing how RAW is declining in numbers year on a year.

No one i saw claiming AEW would be doing these 1.3m-1.5m numbers consistently so soon, they peaked once at 1.3m, which they can reach again this summer.

Comparing this period vs their peak period last year to claim some W, when all things considered shows how this if flawed, is quite ridiculous. If they're so down in Sep-Nov 22 to their Sep-Nov 21 then you can talk, otherwise, all points now show that AEW is resilient and RAW is looking bad with more star power and fans back and losing 250K viewers and 30% demo drop year on year


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> So that's it, you're basically bitter Jericho and some AEW diehards thought AEW would be beating RAW at this point? I'm pretty sure almost everyone laughed at Jericho and thought that statement was ridiculous. But you're just using all that as an excuse because you're not addressing how RAW is declining in numbers year on a year.


No, I didn't even know Jericho said that, but yikes. I'm laughing at the hysterical posts that were made in threads last year right before the move to TBS in which numerous people proclaimed this would happen. The guy you're defending in this thread is also the same guy who said that Raw would either get no contract at all, or a reduced contract a few years ago with the contract they're on now. What happened? They set the wrestling TV contract record and got the biggest TV contract for a wrestling show ever. So, have fun defending that ilk.



> No one i saw claiming AEW would be doing these 1.3m-1.5m numbers consistently so soon, they peaked once at 1.3m, which they can reach again this summer.


That's great you didn't see it, but it happened.



> Comparing this period vs their peak period last year to claim some W, when all things considered shows how this if flawed, is quite ridiculous. If they're so down in Sep-Nov 22 to their Sep-Nov 21 then you can talk, otherwise, all points now show that AEW is resilient and RAW is looking bad with more star power and fans back and losing 250K viewers and 30% demo drop year on year


Thank you for making my point for me. Raw has "no star-power" yet are still doubling up Dynamite weekly. Dynamite, on the other hand, has signed alot of star-power in Punk, Danielson, and Cole, and is still down and getting double-up by a Raw with 'no star-power' and on the bigger Network.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Dynamite is quickly closing the gap in the demo
> 
> May 18-20, 2020
> Raw: 0.51
> Dynamite: 0.26
> 
> May 10-13 2021
> Raw: 0.53
> Dynamite: 0.31
> 
> May 17-20 2021
> Raw: 0.48
> Dynamite: 0.28
> 
> May 2-5 2022
> Raw: 0.38
> Dynamite: 0.32
> 
> Warner has to be pleased with these numbers given what they paid. USA is probably irate.



Bro you're trying so hard lol, AEW barely does 800k and you're in here with this mess. This is some serious copium


----------



## Kentucky34

RAW only has no "star power" because the old man has pushed Reigns and Lesnar at the expense of everyone else. 

It's a credit to Rollins and perhaps others that they are drawing the numbers they are. The show is 3 hours and runs head to head with the NBA Playoffs. 

Smackdown should be destroying it in the ratings but it isn't. AEW should be matching it but it isn't.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Only the intentionally ignorant can claim that Dynamite going from losing 51-26 in the demo two years ago, to now 38-32 is a bad thing for AEW. Literally the only metric used in determining rights fees.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> Bro you're trying so hard lol, AEW barely does 800k and you're in here with this mess. This is some serious copium


AEW just did it's worst number since moving to TBS. Remember, they were going to be tying or beating RAW once they got the west coast viewers back live. This doesn't even take into consideration that RAW has a third hour that ends an hour later in the night than Dynamite does on the bigger Network, and RAW still SMOKES them.

Never seen a fanbase so happy to get destroyed every week. If that makes you happy, good for you. BUT it will pointed out, mocked, and laughed at in THIS thread from here on out. No exceptions.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Or, remember how someone in particular said RAW was going to take a HUGE decrease in TV fees this most recent time, and what happened? Oh, that's right. They got the biggest deal in TV history. You can take a guess at who made that predicition. The fact that that they still post in this thread is hilarious. But like I said, from here on out, full-on mock for any shit-posting.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Now, let's have some laughs!

WATCH OUT WWE! Lowest viewership in a year! AEW is on FIRE!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522303265760759810


----------



## Kentucky34

WWE have nothing to worry about from AEW. 

They just have to worry about how much of a flop Reigns is.


----------



## Not Lying

Showstopper said:


> No, I didn't even know Jericho said that, but yikes. I'm laughing at the hysterical posts that were made in threads last year right before the move to TBS in which numerous people proclaimed this would happen. The guy you're defending in this thread is also the same guy who said that Raw would either get no contract at all, or a reduced contract a few years ago with the contract they're on now. What happened? They set the wrestling TV contract record and got the biggest TV contract for a wrestling show ever. So, have fun defending that ilk.
> That's great you didn't see it, but it happened.


Obviously, RAW will get a huge contract next time. They're at 300m/year now and I doubt they'll get less than 500m/year next negotiation round. Still A top 5 cable show 52-Weeks a year.



> Thank you for making my point for me. Raw has "no star-power" yet are still doubling up Dynamite weekly. Dynamite, on the other hand, has signed alot of star-power in Punk, Danielson, and Cole, and is still down and getting double-up by a Raw with 'no star-power' and on the bigger Network.


That's not the point I was making.
RAW in 2021 had only Drew, Braun, Lashley, Charlotte and no-fans and were doing significantly better numbers than now.
RAW in 2022 has Cody, Rollins, RKO-Bro, Becky, Bianca, Lashley (more star-power) with the fans back and that last RAW was 20% down in viewership and 30% down in demo.
This isn't an indication on the quality of of the show or the star-power as clearly RAW 2022 April/May is still better than RAW 2021 April/May.

But you're focusing on the total numbers and if you want to be one of those who thinks a 2.5 year old wrestling show is going to beat a 28 year old RAW, be and be delusional, but we all know it takes more time to knock an empire.
AEW in April 2022 did less than AEW in April 2021 (954K vs 975K) first time in a while a month down year on year, but last year around this time they didn't compete with playoffs. They average like 600K in june last year against the playoffs, bet you'll see a huge rise this year. How much you wana bet WWE willl be down year-on-year in june?

All you're doing is repeating the same BS about the move to TBS being in more homes (yeah, all 2% more of it), and how Punk/Bryan didn't help them, ignoring all other factors and trends that happen in the year. I'll tell you what you keep telling yourself on the declining RAW ratings but your blinded by your bias and AEW hate: next negotiation rounds, AEW will also see a huge increase in TV rights, a bigger % than RAW most likely.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The Definition of Technician said:


> Obviously, RAW will get a huge contract next time. They're at 300m/year now and I doubt they'll get less than 500m/year next negotiation round. Still A top 5 cable show 52-Weeks a year.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the point I was making.
> RAW in 2021 had only Drew, Braun, Lashley, Charlotte and no-fans and were doing significantly better numbers than now.
> RAW in 2022 has Cody, Rollins, RKO-Bro, Becky, Bianca, Lashley (more star-power) with the fans back and that last RAW was 20% down in viewership and 30% down in demo.
> This isn't an indication on the quality of of the show or the star-power as clearly RAW 2022 April/May is still better than RAW 2021 April/May.
> 
> But you're focusing on the total numbers and if you want to be one of those who thinks a 2.5 year old wrestling show is going to beat a 28 year old RAW, be and be delusional, but we all know it takes more time to knock an empire.
> AEW in April 2022 did less than AEW in April 2021 (954K vs 975K) first time in a while a month down year on year, but last year around this time they didn't compete with playoffs. They average like 600K in june last year against the playoffs, bet you'll see a huge rise this year. How much you wana bet WWE willl be down year-on-year in june?
> 
> All you're doing is repeating the same BS about the move to TBS being in more homes (yeah, all 2% more of it), and how Punk/Bryan didn't help them, ignoring all other factors and trends that happen in the year. I'll tell you what you keep telling yourself on the declining RAW ratings but your blinded by your bias and AEW hate: next negotiation rounds, AEW will also see a huge increase in TV rights, a bigger % than RAW most likely.


I don't know why you are shocked a show is doing worse ratings this year than during last year when a) ratings have been going down for DECADES, and B) you're focusing on a time when there were no fans in arena's, who were being forced to watch at home, so of course ratings would be higher. But this is newsworthy...

The old vs. new thing doesn't fly on cable these days. With cable dwindling by the day, if a show is hot/popular, it will do good numbers no matter how new the show is. If people view it as appointment TV, they will watch it. New, old, or in the middle. 

I repeat the TBS thing because alot of AEW fans said once they move to TBS and get the west coast fans back live, it will be averaging significantly more than it's been doing. Those aren't my words. Those are AEW fans' words. But keep deflecting that fact.

AEW might get a higher percentage increase, I agree with that. But only because WWE is already making a ton right now with both of their shows.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW will keep drawing between 750k and 1 million. They have hit their ceiling. 

So long as RAW has Rollins, Owens and Becky it will outdraw AEW. 

RAW is a great show. It would be greater if WWE put more effort into it and cut it to 2 hours.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Up from last week in Overall and Demo, correlates to SD. Good to be up even with NBA Playoffs, I suppose:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524117944669773824


----------



## Kentucky34

That's a good number considering the competition and absence of a world championship.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> No, I didn't even know Jericho said that, but yikes. I'm laughing at the hysterical posts that were made in threads last year right before the move to TBS in which numerous people proclaimed this would happen. The guy you're defending in this thread is also the same guy who said that Raw would either get no contract at all, or a reduced contract a few years ago with the contract they're on now. What happened? They set the wrestling TV contract record and got the biggest TV contract for a wrestling show ever. So, have fun defending that ilk.
> 
> 
> 
> That's great you didn't see it, but it happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for making my point for me. Raw has "no star-power" yet are still doubling up Dynamite weekly. Dynamite, on the other hand, has signed alot of star-power in Punk, Danielson, and Cole, and is still down and getting double-up by a Raw with 'no star-power' and on the bigger Network.


It’s the brand. Take Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy, Adam Page, MJF, and Wardlow and transplant them to RAW. Then transplant Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Riddle, Lashley, Edge and AJ Styles to Dynamite. The numbers for either show will not change much.

WWE fans in large part love the brand, except for the younger fans who have attachments to individual wrestlers. AEW fans are largely former WWE fans who craved an alternative.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Funny how quiet this thread is when they go up lol


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Hour 1: 1635
Hour 2: 1730
Hour 3: 1593

It was a smart move to announce the time of Cody's US Title match.


----------



## Zappers

Seafort said:


> It’s the brand. Take Jungle Boy, Darby, Sammy, Adam Page, MJF, and Wardlow and transplant them to RAW. Then transplant Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, Riddle, Lashley, Edge and AJ Styles to Dynamite. The numbers for either show will not change much.
> 
> WWE fans in large part love the brand, except for the younger fans who have attachments to individual wrestlers. *AEW fans are largely former WWE fans who craved an alternative.*


So you're basically saying they are a minority. Now add that current WWE fans watch AEW too. If they didn't.... you would be looking at numbers sub 500,000.

And when it was WWE vs WCW. It was just the brand too. Difference is, WCW was a major company that knew what they were doing. They were competitors. AEW is a circus run by a fanboy with an unlimited daddy's wallet. AEW is just a place(or was designed to be) for wrestlers to be on TV that couldn't get booked on WWE/NXT/Impact. All that ... different, creative, wrestlers or how different they could be is a smoke screen. They're not. They are no different then anybody else imho. In fact (not all obviously) you can clearly see why they aren't on WWE. There are a few standouts, and rest are ex WWE stars. Many of which have done nothing different then what they were doing on WWE/NXT. Only to get pushed instantly then "pushed" aside for the next "big signing".

I have zero problem with AEW being on the air. I get a chance to see some wrestlers I wasn't familiar with and I get to appreciate how good WWE really is. Which imho, people take for granted... even with all WWE's faults.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, the same promoter who managed to bring CM PUNK (who was hellbent in sticking to retirement for several years) back to professional wrestling, who managed to lure in Bryan Danielson to have compelling matches with NJPW talents, who consistently manages to get high ppv buyrates, who often draws relatively high demographic numbers regarding young males, who’s weekly shows are only beaten by the NBA on competitive nights, and who managed to sell out Forbidden Door very quickly (after healing their relationship with NJPW within 2-3 years) ‘doesn’t’ know what he’s doing.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, the same promoter who managed to bring CM PUNK (who was hellbent in sticking to retirement for several years) back to professional wrestling, who managed to lure in Bryan Danielson to have compelling matches with NJPW talents, who consistently manages to get high ppv buyrates, who often draws relatively high demographic numbers regarding young males, who’s weekly shows are only beaten by the NBA on competitive nights, and who managed to sell out Forbidden Door very quickly (after healing their relationship with NJPW within 2-3 years) ‘doesn’t’ know what he’s doing.


"Managed to lure" Are you even serious?

Money buys a lot of things my friend. Tony is throwing obscene amounts of cash at anything and everything.Those two names you are talking about right now combined are probably over 7 million a year easy. What viewership are they bringing in? So basically what you are telling everyone is that if Bryan and Punk didn't get signed. AEW would be where exactly? Those two guys aren't even the main guys on the show. If that's the case AEW is in more trouble then people may think. Both are ex WWE wrestlers, both went there for the money.

Tony is like the kid going into a wrestling figure store... Daddy. I want that, and that, and that one and that one and that one. Ok. Now what are you gonna do with them? Errr. Not sure. But at least I have them. And that makes me special.


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh, June is going to be a really beautiful/successful month for AEW


----------



## omaroo

Decent enough ratings all things considering.

Should be back in the 1.7-1.8 range after June you imagine.


----------



## Seafort

Zappers said:


> So you're basically saying they are a minority. Now add that current WWE fans watch AEW too. If they didn't.... you would be looking at numbers sub 500,000.
> 
> And when it was WWE vs WCW. It was just the brand too. Difference is, WCW was a major company that knew what they were doing. They were competitors. AEW is a circus run by a fanboy with an unlimited daddy's wallet. AEW is just a place(or was designed to be) for wrestlers to be on TV that couldn't get booked on WWE/NXT/Impact. All that ... different, creative, wrestlers or how different they could be is a smoke screen. They're not. They are no different then anybody else imho. In fact (not all obviously) you can clearly see why they aren't on WWE. There are a few standouts, and rest are ex WWE stars. Many of which have done nothing different then what they were doing on WWE/NXT. Only to get pushed instantly then "pushed" aside for the next "big signing".
> 
> I have zero problem with AEW being on the air. I get a chance to see some wrestlers I wasn't familiar with and I get to appreciate how good WWE really is. Which imho, people take for granted... even with all WWE's faults.


I think that’s a bit harsh. Tony Khan might be a fan, but what promoter who was not second generation was anything but a fan at first? Paul Heyman was a fan. Jim Cornette was a fan. Fritz Von Erich was a fan.

Whats different and is a fair criticism is that Tony Khan never had the years of behind the scenes training that a Cornette or Heyman got before they began to run their own promotions. Or even a Vince. He’s learning on the job, and rising or falling as his experience grows.

To your points about AEW, perhaps that is what it will end up being. But that is a bit more close a comparison to TNA, which before being bought by Dixie Carter (who like Khan had no experience) was run by the son of a long time promoter in Jeff Jarrett.

As for WCW, they had a three to four year window where they were run competently (1994-1998). But even then there were bouts of head scratching ineptitude (failing to actual get Nash and Hall to sign contracts until the fake Diesel/Razor storyline, laying the groundwork for WWF to successfully sue them for infringement, the Hogan creative control, the absolutely absurd 1998 Hogan contract, keeping younger wrestlers locked down on the card, UnCensored 1995, UnCensored 1996, The Yetayhhh, Souled Out 97, and others). And that was during the best years. WCW from 1990-1993 and 1999-2001 was a dumpster fire, a yawning abyss of constant management changes, budget cuts, and trying to counter WWF years after the fact. AEW isn’t close to that yet, and are at worst only comparable to high-stage TNA.

That said, there is tremendous brand loyalty to WWE. They built an enormous wellspring of goodwill at points in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. People will turn out for a WrestleMania in 2022 regardless of who main events - whether it is Roman Reigns or Sammy Guevara. It’s not like it was 15 years ago where a subpar lineup could lead to the specter of a half empty building. It also gives a WWE wrestler little leverage. Aside from a FOX executive caring, the WWE could replace almost any talent because the brand is the star.

AEW doesn’t have anything close to that brand loyalty - they’re literally building the brand right now and are more reliant on characters and storylines (for better or worse).


----------



## Zappers

Seafort said:


> I think that’s a bit harsh. Tony Khan might be a fan, but what promoter who was not second generation was anything but a fan at first? Paul Heyman was a fan. Jim Cornette was a fan. Fritz Von Erich was a fan.
> 
> Whats different and is a fair criticism is that Tony Khan never had the years of behind the scenes training that a Cornette or Heyman got before they began to run their own promotions. Or even a Vince. He’s learning on the job, and rising or falling as his experience grows.
> 
> To your points about AEW, perhaps that is what it will end up being. But that is a bit more close a comparison to TNA, which before being bought by Dixie Carter (who like Khan had no experience) was run by the son of a long time promoter in Jeff Jarrett.
> 
> As for WCW, they had a three to four year window where they were run competently (1994-1998). But even then there were bouts of head scratching ineptitude (failing to actual get Nash and Hall to sign contracts until the fake Diesel/Razor storyline, laying the groundwork for WWF to successfully sue them for infringement, the Hogan creative control, the absolutely absurd 1998 Hogan contract, keeping younger wrestlers locked down on the card, UnCensored 1995, UnCensored 1996, The Yetayhhh, Souled Out 97, and others). And that was during the best years. WCW from 1990-1993 and 1999-2001 was a dumpster fire, a yawning abyss of constant management changes, budget cuts, and trying to counter WWF years after the fact. AEW isn’t close to that yet, and are at worst only comparable to high-stage TNA.
> 
> That said, there is tremendous brand loyalty to WWE. They built an enormous wellspring of goodwill at points in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. People will turn out for a WrestleMania in 2022 regardless of who main events - whether it is Roman Reigns or Sammy Guevara. It’s not like it was 15 years ago where a subpar lineup could lead to the specter of a half empty building. It also gives a WWE wrestler little leverage. Aside from a FOX executive caring, the WWE could replace almost any talent because the brand is the star.
> 
> AEW doesn’t have anything close to that brand loyalty - they’re literally building the brand right now and are more reliant on characters and storylines (for better or worse).


 I appreciate your response. Although Tony Khan had zero wrestling business experience. He was a fan as you clearly stated. The others had wrestling experience. My view of him is really not harsh. In fact I'm going light on him.

The point I was making and made was that you were talking numbers. And how AEW fans are basically different from WWE fans. They are not. In fact everything that AEW was supposed to be is the opposite. It's the WWE, just another wrestling show. So If they are watching and enjoying AEW(and secretly laughing at WWE), the joke is on them. It's the same show with smaller stars. Btw, that list you gave. The switch list. Your trading an all star line up for a minor league team. (except maybe MJF) WWE ratings would drop like a sack of potatoes if they lost all that talent. That would be like WCW Nitro all over again.

15 years ago subpar lineup would lead to a half empty building? Really? I don't remember any WWE PPV playing to a half empty building. Must have been a rare one I'm sure. But I never seen it. Certainly no Wrestlemania.


----------



## Zappers

DammitChrist laughing at Darby Allen NOT being an equal star as Randy Orton or Hall of Famer Edge. 😂

Yes. AJ Styles = Jungle Boy ... same thing. Why not. Ha. At least your happy. Good for the soul.


----------



## Seafort

Zappers said:


> I appreciate your response. Although Tony Khan had zero wrestling business experience. He was a fan as you clearly stated. The others had wrestling experience. My view of him is really not harsh. In fact I'm going light on him.
> 
> The point I was making and made was that you were talking numbers. And how AEW fans are basically different from WWE fans. They are not. In fact everything that AEW was supposed to be is the opposite. It's the WWE, just another wrestling show. So If they are watching and enjoying AEW(and secretly laughing at WWE), the joke is on them. It's the same show with smaller stars. Btw, that list you gave. The switch list. Your trading an all star line up for a minor league team. (except maybe MJF) WWE ratings would drop like a sack of potatoes if they lost all that talent. That would be like WCW Nitro all over again.
> 
> 15 years ago subpar lineup would lead to a half empty building? Really? I don't remember any WWE PPV playing to a half empty building. Must have been a rare one I'm sure. But I never seen it. Certainly no Wrestlemania.


No, what I am saying is that in 2007 if they did a John Cena versus lets say...Tyler Rekks or Braden Walker main event with minimal build you would have seen a drop off in sales. I think WWE is more protected against this now by the dedication of its fanbase and their willingness to turn out. I remember WrestleMania VIII being heavily papered to give the impression of a full stadium. I remember WWF having to pull every lever imaginable to draw the 47,514 paid attendees for the 1997 Royal Rumble. I remember WrestleMania 13 not selling out. That seems almost unimaginable now, and it is not because WWE has so much of a bigger fanbase in 2022 than it did 25 years ago. It's fanbase is simply more dedicated and willing to go to see "the show", because the show is the experience and the show is the star.


----------



## RainmakerV2

No quarters yet?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Zappers said:


> Your trading an all star line up for a minor league team. (except maybe MJF) WWE ratings would drop like a sack of potatoes if they lost all that talent.


Raw’s went from a 0.90-1.0 demo show, to now 0.35-0.50 demo show just in the last 4 years with “all that talent”.

Dynamite has been a consistent 0.30 to 0.45 show despite being in your words a “minor league team”.

So arguing that Raw’s ratings would tank if it has the AEW roster is ridiculous. Tank down to the numbers AEW does now? 10%? Raw will be below them precisely because they have no star power and the wrestling is boring within a year tops. Again, look at the trends. Even the WWE brand is losing its appeal with NXT 2.0. They just finished 51st on Tuesday night with a 0.10 demo. That’s cancelville


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw’s went from a 0.90-1.0 demo show, to now 0.35-0.50 demo show just in the last 4 years with “all that talent”.
> 
> Dynamite has been a consistent 0.30 to 0.45 show despite being in your words a “minor league team”.
> 
> So arguing that Raw’s ratings would tank if it has the AEW roster is ridiculous. Tank down to the numbers AEW does now? 10%? Raw will be below them precisely because they have no star power and the wrestling is boring within a year tops. Again, look at the trends. Even the WWE brand is losing its appeal with NXT 2.0. They just finished 51st on Tuesday night with a 0.10 demo. That’s cancelville


Vince ruined NXT. It's nothing without Gargano, Riddle and Ciampa.

RAW still has the best roster in the industry.

Rollins, Owens, Riddle, Orton, Becky, Cody = Chef's kiss.


----------



## Zappers

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw’s went from a 0.90-1.0 demo show, to now 0.35-0.50 demo show just in the last 4 years with “all that talent”.
> 
> Dynamite has been a consistent 0.30 to 0.45 show despite being in your words a “minor league team”.
> 
> So arguing that Raw’s ratings would tank if it has the AEW roster is ridiculous. Tank down to the numbers AEW does now? 10%? Raw will be below them precisely because they have no star power and the wrestling is boring within a year tops. Again, look at the trends. Even the WWE brand is losing its appeal with NXT 2.0. They just finished 51st on Tuesday night with a 0.10 demo. That’s cancelville


If we were to switch out those wrestlers. WWE rating would go down. It's not ridiculous. In fact, if AEW had those WWE wrestlers, Tony would have his dad pull strings, pony up cash and put Dynamite on Mondays to go head to head with WWE.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

"WWE's brand is losing it's appeal." Same thing that very same guy said just a month or so before WWE got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history with the current RAW deal.

Some folks, are doomed to repeat their past mistakes. He is absolutely one of them. Never seen someone so proud of being wrong time and time again. It's hilarious.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

And RAW wins handily again, against the same NBA competition and with a third hour. .44 demo to .33,  

Yawn.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> "WWE's brand is losing it's appeal." Same thing that very same guy said just a month or so before WWE got the biggest TV deal in wrestling history with the current RAW deal.


They signed that deal when they were over a 1.0 on the 18-49 demo. They were doing 3,000,000 viewers a night. They were the ONLY option for wrestling.

5 years later.

18-49 demo is 0.35-0.50 (consistent dropping each year…60% drop

Total Viewers are about 1,750,000 or so (40% drop).

There is another wrestling show viable to sign for programming.

NXT2.0 failed to even chart in the top 50, and that is with being on USA in primetime.

it you are losing 18-49 viewers consistently, how else can you describe that other than the brand losing appeal?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> They signed that deal when they were over a 1.0 on the 18-49 demo. They were doing 3,000,000 viewers a night. They were the ONLY option for wrestling.
> 
> 5 years later.
> 
> 18-49 demo is 0.35-0.50 (consistent dropping each year…60% drop
> 
> Total Viewers are about 1,750,000 or so (40% drop).
> 
> There is another wrestling show viable to sign for programming.
> 
> NXT2.0 failed to even chart in the top 50, and that is with being on USA in primetime.
> 
> it you are losing 18-49 viewers consistently, how else can you describe that other than the brand losing appeal?


Because check out the chart every week, RAW wins every single week outside of NBA Playoffs and NFL Season, and that's in the demo. They are also highly competitive in overall viewers.

They just trounced AEW TODAY in the demo to the tune of .44 to .33. That's with a third hour that Dynamite doesn't have, with RAW ending an hour later into the evening than Dynamite, providing USA with three hours every week.

You also said this very same thing on the most recent TV deal, and they got the richest TV deal in wrestling history. They just trounced their "competition" in AEW this week .44 to .33 in the demo and up against the NBA Playoffs, with a third hour that AEW doesn't have.

They will get another record breaking contract just like you said they wouldn't last time.

Bank on it.


----------



## ThirdMan

To be fair, it was cruel for AEW to put little Darby Allin up against The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Those bitches are vicious, bro, and even daredevils like him can't withstand that.


----------



## Chelsea

ThirdMan said:


> To be fair, it was cruel for AEW to put little Darby Allin up against The Housewives of Beverly Hills. Those bitches are vicious, bro, and even daredevils like him can't withstand that.


I agree, they should've put him against me. I'd have treated him carefully.


----------



## ThirdMan

Chelsea said:


> I agree, they should've put him against me. I'd have treated him carefully.


Lies. You know damn well that he's very bendable, and would take full advantage of that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Where. Are. The. Quarters!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Thurston hasn’t posted them in awhile. I guess he lost access to them?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

[QUOTE="Showstopper, post: 79188680, member: 218228"

They just trounced AEW TODAY in the demo to the tune of .44 to .33. 
[/QUOTE]

Trounced was last year on the same week when it was .53 to .31, that was a trouncing. Or two years ago when it was .5 to .26. That was a trouncing.

Each year the gap narrows. I say all of this as not a diss on WWE, just the facts behind AEW. Both will get mega deals next year, huge deals.


----------



## Zappers

Maybe on tonight's RAW a random wrestler should try to recklessly injure himself on purpose.

It worked for AEW. Last week the ratings poured in.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

@TKO Wrestling


They will both get better deals than they currently have, that I agree with. RAW currently gets $1.5 Billion with this contract. So, it's reasonable to assume that RAW will cross the $2 Billion mark; which will once again set a new wrestling TV contract record.

As far as the "trouncing", AEW is down from last year. Their numbers are down since moving to TBS when they were supposed to go up considering TBS is the bigger Network and they were getting the west coast fans back live, but the ratings went significantly down, instead. Not good no matter how you try to paint it. They're literally in 800Ks more weeks than they're not these days. That's half of what RAW does. Also, RAW has an extra hour AND ends an hour later into the evening than Dynamite. All of those disadvantages, I considering that a healthy 'trouncing.'


----------



## Zappers

Showstopper said:


> @TKO Wrestling
> 
> 
> They will both get better deals than they currently have, that I agree with. RAW currently gets $1.5 Billion with this contract. So, it's reasonable to assume that RAW will cross the $2 Billion mark; which will once again set a new wrestling TV contract record.
> 
> As far as the "trouncing", AEW is down from last year. Their numbers are down since moving to TBS when they were supposed to go up considering TBS is the bigger Network and they were getting the west coast fans back live, but the ratings went significantly down, instead. Not good no matter how you try to paint it. They're literally in 800Ks more weeks than they're not these days. That's half of what RAW does. Also, RAW has an extra hour AND ends an hour later into the evening than Dynamite. All of those disadvantages, I considering that a healthy 'trouncing.'


Something maybe most don't know. During the Hockey Playoffs. Commercials for Dynamite/Rampage are there. TBS/TNT promotes AEW constantly. It's their "target" demo. .. I would assume they do it for NBA(I don't watch NBA), MLB.

You would think that alone would grab viewers. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526655304284479501

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number!


----------



## Cosmo77

Great Number Lmao,this is all you talk about on this board sad


----------



## Kentucky34

Proof that the NBA has been eating into RAW's numbers. 

I expect strong numbers over the summer if they continue to deliver good shows and push the right talent .


----------



## Rankles75

Sasha throwing her toys out the pram=ratings.


----------



## RLT1981

Great rating!

helped that it was no sports on last night ratings went back to normal.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Third hour was up on the second in 18-49.


Wonder why


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All 3 Hours were the top 3 most watched in Cable in the Demo. Hours 2 and 3 did better in the demo than Hour 1. Both did a .46, while Hour 1 did a .44.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> @TKO Wrestling
> 
> 
> They will both get better deals than they currently have, that I agree with. RAW currently gets $1.5 Billion with this contract. So, it's reasonable to assume that RAW will cross the $2 Billion mark; which will once again set a new wrestling TV contract record.
> 
> As far as the "trouncing", AEW is down from last year. Their numbers are down since moving to TBS when they were supposed to go up considering TBS is the bigger Network and they were getting the west coast fans back live, but the ratings went significantly down, instead. Not good no matter how you try to paint it. They're literally in 800Ks more weeks than they're not these days. That's half of what RAW does. Also, RAW has an extra hour AND ends an hour later into the evening than Dynamite. All of those disadvantages, I considering that a healthy 'trouncing.'


It was too many additions, too soon, without character holding, vignettes, or development. It turned my wife off and she was a casual fan. She cannot stand Bobby Fish or Kyle O’Reilly, but along with Adam Cole they are rapidly becoming primary faces of AEW.


----------



## Seafort

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526655304284479501
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mediocre. WWE’s only pushing themselves not to attrit their audience beyond a certain level. There is no drive to break new ground or grow their audience...because their audience is the executives of NBC and Fox as well as the Saudi Arabian government. Things could (and likely will) remain exactly the same twenty years from now - down to the shaky cam and constant intercutting - as they are now.

In that respect, WWE is just like Simpsons or Spongebob. You know exactly what you are going to get with the show no matter the yeat. Nothing different. Nothing challenging. A promotion in ember.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Hope we get a Countdown to Cody on every WWE show onwards to RAW now


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

How about Hour 2 outdrawing Hour 1 in overall viewers by nearly 70K (1.816 million to 1.749 million)? I feel like that isn't the norm.

They have to like that increase in Hour 2.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.45 with no sports competition. That's a bad number.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Seafort said:


> Mediocre. WWE’s only pushing themselves not to attrit their audience beyond a certain level. There is no drive to break new ground or grow their audience...because their audience is the executives of NBC and Fox as well as the Saudi Arabian government. Things could (and likely will) remain exactly the same twenty years from now - down to the shaky cam and constant intercutting - as they are now.
> 
> In that respect, WWE is just like Simpsons or Spongebob. You know exactly what you are going to get with the show no matter the yeat. Nothing different. Nothing challenging. A promotion in ember.


The 18-49 demo will continue to drop. The average May demos for the last 5 years:

2017: 0.95 (2,650,000 total viewers) - live fans
2018: 0.85 (2,650,000) - live fans
2019: 0.78 (2,320,000) - live fans
2020: 0.51 (1,770,000) - empty performance center
2021: 0.49 (1,740,000) - thunderdome
2022: 0.42 (1,657,000) - live fans

Total viewership is definitely bottoming out as WWE has a huge percentage of over 50 that will watch regardless, but the demos will continue to drop.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Absolute SHAMBLES.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.45 with no sports competition. That's a bad number.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677497336606720

Get a hobby dude lol


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.45 with no sports competition. That's a bad number.


Stop trolling.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I went back to last year to May 17,2021 to see if there was something silmilar in the 10pm hour. 

In 2021:
Good Doctor 0.55 on ABC
Bull did 0.44 on CBS
Debris did 0.28 on NBC
Raw did 0.47 on USA.

In 2022:
Good Doctor did 0.36 on ABC
NCIS:Hawaii did a 0.32 on CBS
NBC had a movie that didn’t chart.
Raw did a 0.46 on USA.

Based on those figures, Good Doctor is on its last legs. It was just renewed for likely it’s 6th and final season. So Raw beating them is ok I guess

What really matters is how Raw does relative to other cable shows, and if their margin is getting smaller vs other shows (it is, and not just vs Dynamite)

In 2021, Raw (9pm) did a 0.53.
Below Deck (9pm) did a 0.31

in 2022, Raw (8pm) did a 0.44.
Below Deck did a 0.33

The gap between Raw and other shows cable is dwindling, and that’s why it’s value is far less than what it used to be.


----------



## Cosmo77

Some people dont like the truth


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> I went back to last year to May 17,2021 to see if there was something silmilar in the 10pm hour.
> 
> In 2021:
> Good Doctor 0.55 on ABC
> Bull did 0.44 on CBS
> Debris did 0.28 on NBC
> Raw did 0.47 on USA.
> 
> In 2022:
> Good Doctor did 0.36 on ABC
> NCIS:Hawaii did a 0.32 on CBS
> NBC had a movie that didn’t chart.
> Raw did a 0.46 on USA.
> 
> Based on those figures, Good Doctor is on its last legs. It was just renewed for likely it’s 6th and final season. So Raw beating them is ok I guess
> 
> What really matters is how Raw does relative to other cable shows, and if their margin is getting smaller vs other shows (it is, and not just vs Dynamite)
> 
> In 2021, Raw (9pm) did a 0.53.
> Below Deck (9pm) did a 0.31
> 
> in 2022, Raw (8pm) did a 0.44.
> Below Deck did a 0.33
> 
> The gap between Raw and other shows cable is dwindling, and that’s why it’s value is far less than what it used to be.


Nice cherry picking.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677497336606720
> 
> Get a hobby dude lol


He also said during the last contract negotiations that RAW would either get a big deduction or no contract at all.

They wound up getting the biggest wrestling TV contract in history. That's why no one in this thread or even the AEW thread responds to him or takes him seriously.

He's very sore after that and probably embarrassed, too. Can't wait until RAW sets the record again.

As that tweet says, the fact that the THIRD hour of Raw was the highest rated in the demo on ALL TV, INCLUDING NETWORK TV, says that RAW is going to get a HUGE new contract when the time comes. They are sitting pretty.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Everyone that was on TV during that third hour should take a bow. The fact that the THIRD hour of RAW beat out NETWORK TV in the demo, is INSANE. Has that ever happened before??? NBCU/USA has to be doing cartwheels over that fact. Their ad-rates just went through the roof; as did what WWE will be getting paid for RAW when the time comes. Huge W for RAW and WWE last night.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Showstopper said:


> Everyone that was on TV during that third hour should take a bow. The fact that the THIRD hour of RAW beat out NETWORK TV in the demo, is INSANE. Has that ever happened before??? NBCU/USA has to be doing cartwheels over that fact. Their ad-rates just went through the roof; as did what WWE will be getting paid for RAW when the time comes. Huge W for RAW and WWE last night.



#countdowntocody


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RainmakerV2 said:


> #countdowntocody


----------



## Randy Lahey

Kentucky34 said:


> Nice cherry picking.


Not cherry picking at all. Literally comparing the 2nd place show behind Raw on the same time slot, on the same week, in the same hour year to year.

If the argument is “Raw is 1st on Cable” ok that’s an argument but it doesn’t really give me any details. How much better is it than it’s competition? Is the gap getting bigger, smaller, or staying the same? If it’s getting smaller, then Raw’s value is diminishing. And clearly compared to Dynamite and other shows, it is.

WWE got a big TV deal when they were 2x’ing the demos of competing shows. They aren’t doing that anymore.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

The third hour of RAW just beat everything on Cable AND Network television last night. I don't think people understand the gravity of that. That is ABSURD. SD can't even do that and it's on Network TV and has no third hour. Dynamite can't do that on a bigger network than USA and no third hour. RAW also ends an hour later into the evening than SD/Dynamite and on a work/school night.

They're doing excellent. Can't say the same for Dynamite at all.

This alone probably netted WWE a good amount of extra money in their next contract and certainly a ton of leverage. They're golden.


----------



## ClintDagger

Seafort said:


> Mediocre. WWE’s only pushing themselves not to attrit their audience beyond a certain level. There is no drive to break new ground or grow their audience...because their audience is the executives of NBC and Fox as well as the Saudi Arabian government. Things could (and likely will) remain exactly the same twenty years from now - down to the shaky cam and constant intercutting - as they are now.
> 
> In that respect, WWE is just like Simpsons or Spongebob. You know exactly what you are going to get with the show no matter the yeat. Nothing different. Nothing challenging. A promotion in ember.


I don’t think it’s a lack of drive. It’s more that WWE is playing it safe. Vince only swings for the fences when his company’s existence is at risk. Right now WWE as a corporation is doing just fine and if these numbers can stay relatively flat for a few more years then the next round of tv deals will be enough to keep them going for another 5 year run. So Vince will continue to play it safe.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Cosmo77 said:


> Some people dont like the truth


Vince-bots don’t understand math. They don’t understand 5 year trends, they don’t understand simple supply and demand.

Only in Showstopper logic can a show that goes 1.0 to 0.45 be in line for a giant increase. If fewer and fewer people are watching TV, then the value of the advertising $$$s generated by TV are less. Fewer advertising $$$s means less $$$$$ a network can pay for a show unless they want to eat a loss. Peacock did it with buying the WWE Network rights. I doubt they make the same mistake twice.

It reminds me of old people that used think a newspaper was going to be around forever despite the reductions in subscriptions each year. Eventually every subscription based model dies when subscriptions drop below a level that advertising $$$ can’t sustain


----------



## ClintDagger

The only broadcast shows Raw is beating in total viewership are CW shows so that’s being way overblown. However, the only shows on cable beating Raw are pretty much FNC which shows the value they are providing to NBCU. Nobody is paying for WWE programming based on their demographics. But outside of sports and cable news Raw is really the only relevant programming left on cable from a total viewership standpoint. I guess the question is, at what total viewership number do they no longer become valuable? And how long does it take them to get there? And will cable tv even still be relevant by then? Those are the questions in my mind.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

When Dave Meltzer, who always finds a way to shit on WWE and praise AEW, is even putting it over as a big deal in a positive way for WWE, you know there has to be something to it. The third hour of Raw beating everything on Cable and Network TV on a given night is crazy and a huge deal/feather in their cap. There is no way around that.

The next contract RAW gets in the next couple of years will see another increase. Thurston and others have even stated that as a given. It's pretty predictable, actually.

The next interesting time will be the contract AFTER that one. That's another 5-7 years now from now or so. Will Cable even still exist? Will anyone even be watching Network TV by that time on a significant level? Both are fair questions.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if after this upcoming new contract that Raw and SD get, that these shows will be negotiating with streaming networks. Not gonna outright state is as a fact or my prediction just yet, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if that's where we are after the upcoming new contracts end in about 5-7 years from now or so. That's when this will be interesting. Not the upcoming negotiation. That is a given that they will get another massive contract.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> I don’t think it’s a lack of drive. It’s more that WWE is playing it safe. Vince only swings for the fences when his company’s existence is at risk. Right now WWE as a corporation is doing just fine and if these numbers can stay relatively flat for a few more years then the next round of tv deals will be enough to keep them going for another 5 year run. So Vince will continue to play it safe.


I agree. All he needs to do is put the foot on the accelerator about a year before the deals end, to give the appearance of growth, to get the new deal.

But I have to ask this. It’s been arguably since 1997 since the company’s survival was at stake, and 22 years since WCW ended. The last 7-8 years have seen only barest of changes. Does it not get boring for Vince to do the same thing over and over again? There’s no challenge, no new horizons to expand to. All WWE is doing is increasing content deals, which makes the company more profitable, yes. But there’s no innovation. No groundbreaking progress. Really, WWE is like that Orwellian scape from the 1984 Macintosh commercial, bland and lacking in any drive other than to preserve the status who, forever.

How dreary.


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> When Dave Meltzer, who always finds a way to shit on WWE and praise AEW, is even putting it over as a big deal in a positive way for WWE, you know there has to be something to it. The third hour of Raw beating everything on Cable and Network TV on a given night is crazy and a huge deal/feather in their cap. There is no way around that.
> 
> The next contract RAW gets in the next couple of years will see another increase. Thurston and others have even stated that as a given. It's pretty predictable, actually.
> 
> The next interesting time will be the contract AFTER that one. That's another 5-7 years now from now or so. Will Cable even still exist? Will anyone even be watching Network TV by that time on a significant level? Both are fair questions.
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised at all if after this upcoming new contract that Raw and SD get, that these shows will be negotiating with streaming networks. Not gonna outright state is as a fact or my prediction just yet, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if that's where we are after the upcoming new contracts end in about 5-7 years from now or so. That's when this will be interesting. Not the upcoming negotiation. That is a given that they will get another massive contract.


I still say that WWE gets acquired before the next deal is reached. Either NBC or Disney.


----------



## Seafort

ClintDagger said:


> The only broadcast shows Raw is beating in total viewership are CW shows so that’s being way overblown. However, the only shows on cable beating Raw are pretty much FNC which shows the value they are providing to NBCU. Nobody is paying for WWE programming based on their demographics. But outside of sports and cable news Raw is really the only relevant programming left on cable from a total viewership standpoint. I guess the question is, at what total viewership number do they no longer become valuable? And how long does it take them to get there? And will cable tv even still be relevant by then? Those are the questions in my mind.


Good question. If WWE is drawing 700K fans for Raw in 2025 and is Number One, does that really matter at that point?


----------



## postmoderno

Seafort said:


> I agree. All he needs to do is put the foot on the accelerator about a year before the deals end, to give the appearance of growth, to get the new deal.
> 
> But I have to ask this. It’s been arguably since 1997 since the company’s survival was at stake, and 22 years since WCW ended. The last 7-8 years have seen only barest of changes. Does it not get boring for Vince to do the same thing over and over again? There’s no challenge, no new horizons to expand to. All WWE is doing is increasing content deals, which makes the company more profitable, yes. But there’s no innovation. No groundbreaking progress. Really, WWE is like that Orwellian scape from the 1984 Macintosh commercial, bland and lacking in any drive other than to preserve the status who, forever.
> 
> How dreary.


You answered your own question. They are increasing content deals and making more and more money. I believe that this is the only important challenge in Vince's mind and likely the same for anyone in a relevant position within the company. Producing an interesting/quality/innovative product is simply not a concern at all, and it shows. But they are making a ton of cash, and in that way, they are very successful.

The sad thing is, I think playing it safe is a miscalculation. There are 1.5-2 million people (depending on the show and the week) who have proven that they will show up consistently and jedi mind trick themselves into believing that they enjoy whatever WWE is spamming at the moment. The company could afford to try to do something different and/or of actual entertainment value, and probably not lose that base, while potentially bringing back those who have given up, or even new viewers. But they show no signs of wanting to do that, so here we are.


----------



## InexorableJourney

And Bobby does it again.


----------



## Seafort

postmoderno said:


> You answered your own question. They are increasing content deals and making more and more money. I believe that this is the only important challenge in Vince's mind and likely the same for anyone in a relevant position within the company. Producing an interesting/quality/innovative product is simply not a concern at all, and it shows. But they are making a ton of cash, and in that way, they are very successful.
> 
> The sad thing is, I think playing it safe is a miscalculation. There are 1.5-2 million people (depending on the show and the week) who have proven that they will show up consistently and jedi mind trick themselves into believing that they enjoy whatever WWE is spamming at the moment. The company could afford to try to do something different and/or of actual entertainment value, and probably not lose that base, while potentially bringing back those who have given up, or even new viewers. But they show no signs of wanting to do that, so here we are.


A wonderful response!

That said, the creative in Vince somewhere has to be agitating to do something new. Unless the something new is every decade getting one person over as the new face of the company. Perhaps that is where the “creative fulfillment“ comes in.

Otherwise how boring it must be to run that organization from a creative direction. Nothing really changes. Nothing is innovated.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Just a friendly reminder that this week's third hour of RAW beat out everything on Cable AND Network TV on Monday night. This is fucking hilariously great:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677497336606720


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

CNBC article speculating that Amazon could buy WWE. Amongst the key points of the article:


*World Wrestling Entertainment’s streaming rights could be attractive to companies like Amazon that are looking for video content, Needham said.*
*Vince McMahon, the WWE CEO, said on an earnings call earlier this week that there was interest in the rights to wrestling programming from major streaming companies.*
*“We believe that such a licensing deal would put AMZN in the best spot to purchase all of WWE,” Needham analyst Laura Martin wrote.*
So, for anyone who thinks WWE's ratings are in way, shape, or form a problem for either TV Networks OR Streaming Networks, you couldn't be anymore wrong if you tried. When you have the wealthiest/most successful companies like Amazon interested in streaming your content on their service, you are sitting pretty.

Let's make better/more educated posts in this thread from here on out and not embarrass ourselves like certain people have been doing for ions in this thread.

Just saying.









Do you smell what Bezos is cooking? Amazon could buy the WWE, analyst predicts


The "best case scenario" for World Wrestling Entertainment is if Amazon buys its streaming rights in the US and internationally, according to Needham.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## Seafort

Showstopper said:


> CNBC article speculating that Amazon could buy WWE. Amongst the key points of the article:
> 
> 
> *World Wrestling Entertainment’s streaming rights could be attractive to companies like Amazon that are looking for video content, Needham said.*
> *Vince McMahon, the WWE CEO, said on an earnings call earlier this week that there was interest in the rights to wrestling programming from major streaming companies.*
> *“We believe that such a licensing deal would put AMZN in the best spot to purchase all of WWE,” Needham analyst Laura Martin wrote.*
> So, for anyone who thinks WWE's ratings are in way, shape, or form a problem for either TV Networks OR Streaming Networks, you couldn't be anymore wrong if you tried. When you have the wealthiest/most successful companies like Amazon interested in streaming your content on their service, you are sitting pretty.
> 
> Let's make better/more educated posts in this thread from here on out and not embarrass ourselves like certain people have been doing for ions in this thread.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you smell what Bezos is cooking? Amazon could buy the WWE, analyst predicts
> 
> 
> The "best case scenario" for World Wrestling Entertainment is if Amazon buys its streaming rights in the US and internationally, according to Needham.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Interesting. I’ve posted a few times that I thought that WWE would be purchased in May this year, coming off of the triumph of a two night WrestleMania and still in advance of the next content rights deal that this would be a perfect time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Seafort said:


> Interesting. I’ve posted a few times that I thought that WWE would be purchased in May this year, coming off of the triumph of a two night WrestleMania and still in advance of the next content rights deal that this would be a perfect time.


And the thing is no matter the result, it's gonna end with billions more in WWE's bank account.


----------



## InexorableJourney

We know consolidation is rapidly coming down the line for the mega media conglomerates.

It may just be a case of them signing up the big tickets items early, thus becoming bigger fish when the time comes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Great week for WWE:

-Amazon interested in RAW streaming rights
-Other top Streaming services also interested in RAW streaming rights
-.46 to .33 in the demo, another trouncing.
-Hour 3 beat everything in it's time-slot on Cable AND Network TV

WOW!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

QH's for this past Monday. Seth's promo 3rd highest in the Demo. Even more impressive since it took place in the 3rd hour!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

double post.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Countdown to Cody kept people around then it fell off a cliff.


----------



## RainmakerV2

And as you see the week prior Cody pops a number with Theory before again it falls off a cliff. Wouldnt surprise me if 10pm is Cody time from here on out.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Glad the QH's are here. Seth's routinely the highest or one of the highest going back to late last year/January.


----------



## Seth Grimes

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 122920
> 
> 
> And as you see the week prior Cody pops a number with Theory before again it falls off a cliff. Wouldnt surprise me if 10pm is Cody time from here on out.


I'd say it's less to do with Cody and more to do with that insane close out of women's tag match, into Ali vs Ciampa, into Asuka vs Bianca


----------



## ThirdMan

Unless it's a world-title match, the last two quarters are always the death spot, no matter who's in them. But they tend to do a ton of padding with 24/7 stuff, recaps, and commercials in the second-to-last quarter, leaving little time for the last match, which audiences (unfortunately) have been trained to believe will often have a DQ finish. Plus, if the match is short, people can see virtually all of it on the WWE YouTube clip the next day anyways. The most-watched RAW YouTube clips from this past week are the Lashley cage match (1.3 million), The Mysterios facing down Veer (1.1 million, which is why they're pushing Veer, for the big India market), and Asuka vs Becky (839K).


----------



## ThirdMan

@DammitChrist Why are you eye-rolling what I posted here? I mean, Cody and Seth were in the final quarter in late-April (the eight-man tag with Orton and Co.), and did 1.495 million viewers. The last two quarters virtually always take a big dip from the previous hours of the show. I thought this was common knowledge by now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

ThirdMan said:


> Unless it's a world-title match, the last two quarters are always the death spot, no matter who's in them. But they tend to do a ton of padding with 24/7 stuff, recaps, and commercials in the second-to-last quarter, leaving little time for the last match, which audiences (unfortunately) have been trained to believe will often have a DQ finish. Plus, if the match is short, people can see virtually all of it on the WWE YouTube clip the next day anyways. The most-watched RAW YouTube clips from this past week are the Lashley cage match (1.3 million), The Mysterios facing down Veer (1.1 million, which is why they're pushing Veer, for the big India market), and Asuka vs Becky (839K).


This week's third hour beat everything in it's time-slot on both Cable and Network TV according to Meltzer, which is insane. Everyone in that third hour should take a bow. Probably not a coincidence they had Cody/Seth start the hour and Becky/Asuka in the main-event. It worked quite well this week.


----------



## ThirdMan

Showstopper said:


> This week's third hour beat everything in it's time-slot on both Cable and Network TV according to Meltzer, which is insane. Everyone in that third hour should take a bow. Probably not a coincidence they had Cody/Seth start the hour and Becky/Asuka in the main-event. It worked quite well this week.


And that's great. I'm just speaking to the ongoing viewership trends with the last two or three quarters, relative to the rest of the show, for the past number of months (years?). I'm not speaking down to any individual performers or anything (I greatly enjoy all four of those performers). And if the Cody Clock is holding viewers a bit better in the 10pm slot than most other things, they should obviously keep doing it, assuming whatever he's saying advances the story.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Lashley & Riddle have been doing great numbers recently.

Push them to the moon.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Up even against Celtics/Heat Playoff game:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529191800019333120


----------



## RLT1981

hour 3 is killing them but they get paid well for it so its not going anywhere.

hour one and 2 both at 1.8 million viewers is great.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Asuka's a draw. Put the belt on her.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Last year they did a 0.45 this week. This year 0.41. Losing to hockey I don’t think has ever happened.

Another drop for Raw. As expected


----------



## Kentucky34

Randy Lahey said:


> Last year they did a 0.45 this week. This year 0.41. Losing to hockey I don’t think has ever happened.
> 
> Another drop for Raw. As expected


Lol.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Hour 1: 0.42 | 1,846
Hour 2: 0.43 | 1,843
Hour 3: 0.38 | 1,530


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Asuka's a draw. Put the belt on her.


Nah, nobody on the current roster is a big TV draw.


----------



## Cosmo77

.38 is not a good demo however you spin it,i turned it off when doudrop appeared so..


----------



## Seafort

None of this really matters beyond marginal plays of 100-200K viewers. You can have Ciampa or Omos as your consistent headliner and the ratings will largely remain the same after a few weeks of adjustment. No one will lead them to a new Golden Era, no one will cause them to plummet to under 1M. The audience is conditioned to largely like whatever WWE provides.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

The day hour 3 goes away will be the best thing ever. Nobody wants to watch 3 hours every week and also this weeks show was terrible


----------



## ThirdMan

Apparently the St. Louis Blues/Colorado Avalanche NHL playoff game started during RAW's third hour, and did a pretty big demo number. Interesting: I knew the New York Rangers were a pretty big market, but didn't realize those two markets drew as much.


----------



## DammitChrist

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The day hour 3 goes away will be the best thing ever. Nobody wants to watch 3 hours every week and also this weeks show was terrible


This upcoming July will officially be the 10-year anniversary since they added a 3rd hour for Raw.

It's pretty much been a *WHOLE* decade already. The 3rd hour is *NOT *going away.


----------



## Seth Grimes

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> The day hour 3 goes away will be the best thing ever. Nobody wants to watch 3 hours every week and also this weeks show was terrible


Even worse when you stack hour 3 with people like Omos. I also tuned out soon as Cody/Seth stuff was over. I assume a bunch of us in Europe tuned out because it wasn't worth it to stay up even longer for them


----------



## ThirdMan

Regardless, it appears that all the wrestling shows are bouncing back a bit overall in terms of viewership, as so many NBA teams are now eliminated, and they're down to only four. Admittedly, some of those are big markets (Boston, Miami, etc.), though. The NHL playoffs will also be in their semi-finals (four teams left) by next week.


----------



## HookedOnThuganomics

Seth Grimes said:


> Even worse when you stack hour 3 with people like Omos. I also tuned out soon as Cody/Seth stuff was over. I assume a bunch of us in Europe tuned out because it wasn't worth it to stay up even longer for them


Cody and Seth are the only good parts about RAW. I'm not really into the Edge stuff either


----------



## Seth Grimes

HookedOnThuganomics said:


> Cody and Seth are the only good parts about RAW. I'm not really into the Edge stuff either


I'm a fan of a few things atm including the Judgement Day and RKBro. But they should either put them on last, or just have them do multiple things on a show. During Rock/Austin/NWO days those guys had multiple segments a show sometimes, and it was good because you wanna see the biggest names ofc, especially if they are good at talking


----------



## ThirdMan

Seth Grimes said:


> I'm a fan of a few things atm including the Judgement Day and RKBro. But they should either put them on last, or just have them do multiple things on a show. During Rock/Austin/NWO days those guys had multiple segments a show sometimes, and it was good because you wanna see the biggest names ofc, especially if they are good at talking


They've had RKBro go on last many times, and the third-hour numbers (especially the last two quarters) don't perform any better. Last time they were in the main-event, which also included Seth and Cody, the final quarter did 1.495 million. It seems a lot of viewers go to bed around 10 or 10:30, and perhaps catch the YouTube highlights of the remainder of the show the next day. And. truth be told, Randy probably wants to leave early most weeks (he has the seniority to do that).


----------



## Seth Grimes

ThirdMan said:


> They've had RKBro go on last many times, and the third-hour numbers (especially the last two quarters) don't perform any better. Last time they were in the main-event, which also included Seth and Cody, the final quarter did 1.495 million. It seems a lot of viewers go to bed around 10 or 10:30, and perhaps catch the YouTube highlights of the remainder of the show the next day. And. truth be told, Randy probably wants to leave early most weeks (he has the seniority to do that).


Yeah and Raw has been alright, even good at times over the last few months, but this week was really bad. Yeah you could be right actually I forgot it's even late for you guys too. Here hour 3 is 3am-4am


----------



## ThirdMan

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah and Raw has been alright, even good at times over the last few months, but this week was really bad. Yeah you could be right actually I forgot it's even late for you guys too. Here hour 3 is 3am-4am


Oh, it's not late for _me_ (the show ends at 8pm in Vancouver), but yeah, many people on the East Coast have got to get up early for work the next morning. And they very rarely have a super-long main-event on RAW, so people can usually get caught up pretty well with the YouTube highlights the next day.


----------



## Seth Grimes

ThirdMan said:


> Oh, it's not late for _me_ (the show ends at 8pm in Vancouver), but yeah, many people on the East Coast have got to get up early for work the next morning. And they very rarely have a super-long main-event on RAW, so people can usually get caught up pretty well with the YouTube highlights the next day.


Oh is TV in NA made for the west rather than the east would you say?


----------



## ThirdMan

Seth Grimes said:


> Oh is TV in NA made for the west rather than the east would you say?


It's certainly easier to watch on the West Coast, assuming you can get home by 5pm, or have a DVR to watch it on delay. West Coast hockey and basketball games are pretty rough for those on the East Coast (10pm start).


----------



## Seth Grimes

ThirdMan said:


> It's certainly easier to watch on the West Coast, assuming you can get home by 5pm, or have a DVR to watch it on delay. West Coast hockey and basketball games are pretty rough for those on the East Coast (10pm start).


Then there's us in western Europe with mma and wrestling shows starting at 1am 💀


----------



## ThirdMan

Seth Grimes said:


> Then there's us in western Europe with mma and wrestling shows starting at 1am 💀


Yeah, it's certainly not ideal. If I lived in Europe, I'd just watch it on my PVR the next day. But I understand the impulse to want to watch live content live.


----------



## Seth Grimes

ThirdMan said:


> Yeah, it's certainly not ideal. If I lived in Europe, I'd just watch it on my PVR the next day. But I understand the impulse to want to watch live content live.


Yeah, I was busy and had to watch WM one time the day after, it was way worse. Luckily for me I catch a decent amount live cause of my night owl sleeping pattern, but yeah overall I hate the timing for these things. So the shows in Saudi I kinda like more hahaha


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Last week's Hour 3 beat everything in the timeslot on Cable AND Network TV, which is a first. This week's RAW number is in the neighborhood of this past week's SD, as well. Something AEW can't claim.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

RAW finished 2nd on Monday Night. Dynamite finished 6th for their night.


----------



## DammitChrist

Both shows performed fairly well against competition this week (at least to me).


----------



## Prosper

Showstopper said:


> Last week's Hour 3 beat everything in the timeslot on Cable AND Network TV, which is a first. This week's RAW number is in the neighborhood of this past week's SD, as well. *Something AEW can't claim.*





Showstopper said:


> RAW finished 2nd on Monday Night. *Dynamite finished 6th for their night*.


You seem really threatened by AEW on a weekly basis lol. You're comparing them like WWE is not expected to be ahead by anyone who understands brand equity.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Prosper said:


> You seem really threatened by AEW on a weekly basis lol. You're comparing them like WWE is not expected to be ahead by anyone who understands brand equity.


If certain people are going to dish it in this thread, they're going to have to learn how to take it to. Go have a seat next to the guy who predicted Raw wouldn't get a TV deal last time around. Great company, there.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> RAW finished 2nd on Monday Night. Dynamite finished 6th for their night.


Raw didn’t have an NBA game on cable to go against. If they had, they’d be at the same level.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw didn’t have an NBA game on cable to go against. If they had, they’d be at the same level.


You're wrong. Celtics/Heat played Monday night.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> If certain people are going to dish it in this thread, they're going to have to learn how to take it to. Go have a seat next to the guy who predicted Raw wouldn't get a TV deal last time around. Great company, there.


You don’t understand basic math or trends.

Last year, they were losing 53-31.
Now it’s 41-35. If you think USA is happy with that, they aren’t. I pay 5x for a show I expect the margin to be higher than 15%.

NXT just finished 43rd on the night. Last year in June before they changed their show they did 0.20. Now they are doing 0.13. They’ve lost 40% of their audience in a year. Raw losing 10%-20%. Smackdown loses to Shark Tank most weeks. Dynamite is the only show not losing demo.

WWE is rapidly losing popularity. It’s been that way for the last 8 years or so. You can claim AEW isn’t making gains themselves, but at least they have a consistent demo that isn’t dropping.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> You don’t understand basic math or trends.
> 
> Last year, they were losing 53-31.
> Now it’s 41-35. If you think USA is happy with that, they aren’t. I pay 5x for a show I expect the margin to be higher than 15%.
> 
> NXT just finished 43rd on the night. Last year in June before they changed their show they did 0.20. Now they are doing 0.13. They’ve lost 40% of their audience in a year. Raw losing 10%-20%. Smackdown loses to Shark Tank most weeks. Dynamite is the only show not losing demo.
> 
> WWE is rapidly losing popularity. It’s been that way for the last 8 years or so. You can claim AEW isn’t making gains themselves, but at least they have a consistent demo that isn’t dropping.



You have no credibility. You claimed last time WWE would get no deal at all. They got the best TV wrestling contract in history. You couldn't have been more wrong if you tried.

Two minutes ago you claimed RAW didn't go up against an NBA Playoff Game this week. They did.

You have zero credibility. Even AEW fans don't like you. Sorry, dude. You provide nothing here.


----------



## Kentucky34

Why can't some just accept that Raw's roster is drawing well?

Rollins especially.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

Showstopper said:


> You have no credibility. You claimed last time WWE would get no deal at all. They got the best TV wrestling contract in history. You couldn't have been more wrong if you tried.
> 
> Two minutes ago you claimed RAW didn't go up against an NBA Playoff Game this week. They did.
> 
> You have zero credibility. Even AEW fans don't like you. Sorry, dude. You provide nothing here.


Don't you know 927000 is a bigger number than 1.7 million?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> You're wrong. Celtics/Heat played Monday night.


They played on ABC. They weren’t included in the cable ratings. If they were, Raw would have finished behind them too and you spout off about Dynamite finishing 6th when they competed directly with the NBA on cable





__





SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Monday 5.23.2022 Top 150 Cable Originals & Network Finals UPDATED | Showbuzz Daily







showbuzzdaily.com





I’m right. You’re wrong


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## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> Don't you know 927000 is a bigger number than 1.7 million?


Don't you know that a wrestling company that's been around for 60+ years (with nearly 30 years on television) is *supposed* to be ahead of a newer company that isn't even 3 years old yet?


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## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> They played on ABC. They weren’t included in the cable ratings. If they were, Raw would have finished behind them too and you spout off about Dynamite finishing 6th when they competed directly with the NBA on cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Monday 5.23.2022 Top 150 Cable Originals & Network Finals UPDATED | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m right. You’re wrong


You said there was no NBA game on Monday night. There was. And it was on _during_ RAW. AEW fans used an MTV reality show as an excuse as to why they don't draw. So, an NBA Playoff game certainly qualifies.

You were wrong. As always.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Lenny Leonard said:


> Don't you know 927000 is a bigger number than 1.7 million?


Overall viewers only matter to them when they receive a million overall viewers. You should know that by now.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> You said there was no NBA game on Monday night. There was. And it was on _during_ RAW. AEW fans used an MTV reality show as an excuse as to why they don't draw. So, an NBA Playoff game certainly qualifies.
> 
> You were wrong. As always.


No, you explicitly made a comment about AEW finishing 6th on Cable on the night. It was because the NBA game was on.

Raw finished 2nd on Cable, but they did not have an NBA game on Cable to compete with. If they had, they’d have finished 6th too behind the NBA and NHL.

Unless you own WWE stock, it makes no sense for you to defend this company.

Evidently you can’t read because I explicitly said Raw was not competing against an NBA game ON CABLE. Dynamite was. That’s why Dynamite finished 6th and Raw 2nd.

Anyhow, whatever place you finish is irrelevant compared to the number you are putting up. USA isn’t paying Raw 5x to beat Dynamite 41-35. That’s insane


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> No, you explicitly made a comment about AEW finishing 6th on Cable on the night. It was because the NBA game was on.
> 
> Raw finished 2nd on Cable, but they did not have an NBA game on Cable to compete with. If they had, they’d have finished 6th too behind the NBA and NHL.
> 
> Unless you own WWE stock, it makes no sense for you to defend this company.


No, you explicitly stated that there was no NBA Playoff game on Monday night. Except there was. And it was on during RAW. That's direct competition no matter the channel that it's on.

It makes no sense for you to defend a shit company like AEW that does terrible numbers. But you are also the same guy who said RAW would get no TV contract, and they went on to get the best TV contract in wrestling history. So, you're not the best one to judge logic, to be fair.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Help me with this logic:

If a 0.35 is a terrible number, then what is a 0.41? What number would Dynamite need to do for it not to be a terrible number?

And given that it’s only a 3 year old company, the arena sellouts, PPV buys, demo numbers tell me they are doing great.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> Help me with this logic:
> 
> If a 0.35 is a terrible number, then what is a 0.41? What number would Dynamite need to do for it not to be a terrible number?
> 
> And given that it’s only a 3 year old company, the arena sellouts, PPV buys, demo numbers tell me they are doing great.


That's .41 with a third hour that Dynamite doesn't have, and thus ending an hour later into the evening than Dynamite does and against a huge NBA Playoff game. But you're the same fella that has said that:

1) WWE would get no deal whatsoever on it's current deal a few years ago, which turned out to be so wrong considering they got the best TV deal in wrestling history.

2) Said earlier today that there was no NBA Playoff game on this past Monday night.

So, no one is surprised.

Some more fun facts:

WWE is doing "so bad", yet they make more money than they have in ANY time period in HISTORY.

RAW's third hour from last week beat EVERYTHING on Cable AND Network TV in that time-slot. THEIR THIRD HOUR. 

Comparing WWE's ratings to AEW's ratings is laughable enough. You do NOT want to go anywhere near the money they are making.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> Comparing WWE's ratings to AEW's ratings is laughable enough.


i am comparing the ratings.

You didn’t answer my question.

What demo should AEW be doing for them to not be in your estimation “terrible”? 

Just give me a number.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> i am comparing the ratings.
> 
> You didn’t answer my question.
> 
> What demo should AEW be doing for them to not be in your estimation “terrible”?
> 
> Just give me a number.



AEW is doing fine. They're doing fine. But you're the one that acts like they're going to get WWE money on their next deal because of "the demo". Which is utterly ridiculous lol. There's so much more to hooking up with WWE that networks pay for than just a demo rating. But you don't understand that because your existence literally revolves around what small percentage of 18-49 year olds watched Dynamite this week.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW is doing fine. They're doing fine. But you're the one that acts like they're going to get WWE money on their next deal because of "the demo". Which is utterly ridiculous lol. There's so much more to hooking up with WWE that networks pay for than just a demo rating. But you don't understand that because your existence literally revolves around what small percentage of 18-49 year olds watched Dynamite this week.


It's cause it's the teeniest, tiniest metric that A&W is doing minusculely better in they can blow up like it actually means a fucking thing


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW is doing fine. They're doing fine. But you're the one that acts like they're going to get WWE money on their next deal because of "the demo". Which is utterly ridiculous lol. There's so much more to hooking up with WWE that networks pay for than just a demo rating. But you don't understand that because your existence literally revolves around what small percentage of 18-49 year olds watched Dynamite this week.


Every TV show’s cancellation/renewal is dependent on demo rating. Nothing else matters. Nothing. If anything else mattered, such as overall viewers, Smackdown would be cancelled bc they usually finish last in overall viewers every week on network TV. 

It’s literally the only metric that determines whether a TV station wants you on TV. The demo.


----------



## DammitChrist

Lenny Leonard said:


> It's cause it's the teeniest, tiniest metric that A&W is doing minusculely better in they can blow up like it actually means a fucking thing


Their good demographic numbers *does* mean a heck of a lot though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

It's a good thing the demo matters then since RAW finishes at the top of the chart practically every single week outside of NFL season and sometimes during NBA Playoff season. Great news for WWE, then.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

This dude really trying to shit on ratings when last week's Hour 3 just beat everything on Cable AND Network TV. 

The absolute audacity and general delusion.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Every TV show’s cancellation/renewal is dependent on demo rating. Nothing else matters. Nothing. If anything else mattered, such as overall viewers, Smackdown would be cancelled bc they usually finish last in overall viewers every week on network TV.
> 
> It’s literally the only metric that determines whether a TV station wants you on TV. The demo.



Of course pumpkin. I'm sure WWE and AEW will get around the same money since they're close in THE DEMO.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532095226151575552

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Was just about to post. Demo up from last week despite RAW falling on a National Holiday and up against the NY Rangers Game 7 Game. Surprising.


----------



## Kentucky34

Great number all things considered.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

All 3 hours were .40 and up in the demo. Only thing that beat it was Rangers Game 7:


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532097570042007552*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Only 300K away from the "A-Show" on free Network TV.

That's hilarious in and of itself. Not to mention "#2 in the demo for the night."


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That year to year number is TRAGIC! EMBARRASSING!!!!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532096945212342274


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

What was SD's excuse this week? At least Raw was on a holiday. SD is on free Network TV and very much in the same range as a Raw that fell on a National Holday.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532099555247857664*


----------



## DammitChrist

Showstopper said:


> What was SD's excuse this week? At least Raw was on a holiday. SD is on free Network TV and very much in the same range as a Raw that fell on a National Holday.


That was also a week removed from the Bloodline unifying everything, and hogging up the spotlight yet again in their awful storyline.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That Seth and Cody feud is a flop that should've ended after Mania. It's pathetic that they had to pipe in cheers for a HIAC announcement. 







*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> That was also a week removed from the Bloodline unifying everything, and hogging up the spotlight yet again in their awful storyline.


The GeekLine is still a thing? 

I get it, though, It's gotta hurt when your favorite is Double World Champion and the ratings go down the toilet. Big time pain.

Looking into it, RAW and SD basically did the same demo this week.  That's fantastic news. * And that's with Raw on a HOLIDAY!!!!  *


----------



## DammitChrist

Yes, the best feud of the year in WWE so far (where BOTH men somehow managed to get "this is awesome" chants from a lukewarm Iowa crowd) is a 'flop.'

This Sunday night should be fun.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit Lioness said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532099555247857664*


With hot competition, on a national holiday, no world championship, and a 3rd hour

Take the L dude.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> With hot competition, on a national holiday, no world championship, and a 3rd hour
> 
> Take the L dude.


*The only hot competition is between Rollins and himself trying to lock down all 3 spots for record low ratings 😂.







*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, the best feud of the year in WWE (where BOTH men somehow managed to get "this is awesome" chants from a lukewarm Iowa crowd) is a 'flop.'
> 
> This Sunday night should be fun.


A Roman Reigns fan talking shit when his shitty-ass is Double World Champion and holding the ENTIRE Men's Division hostage on BOTH shows .  You really can't make it up. And that's on a week where RAW almost tied SD when Raw was on a Holiday!!!


----------



## Kentucky34

The Legit Lioness said:


> *The only hot competition is between Rollins and himself trying to lock down all 3 spots for record low ratings 😂.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Lol he's always in the highest rated segments on RAW.

Reigns is tanking Smackdown's ratings btw.


----------



## Rankles75

Ouch, that’s a lousy number whichever way you slice it. Kind of miss the days when wrestling was popular. Don’t think it even matters who the WWE push at this point, ratings probably aren’t getting out of the 1.5m-1.7m range without a drastic overhaul of the show (getting rid of the 3rd hour would be a start)…


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kentucky34 said:


> Lol he's always in the highest rated segments on RAW.
> 
> Reigns is tanking Smackdown's ratings btw.


*lol















*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Another Fun Fact: Seth Rollins' 2015 World Title reign *CABLE* ratings SHIT all over *Double World Champion *Roman Reigns' ratings on *NETWORK TV.*



I mean, this shit writes itself at this point.


----------



## RLT1981

Showstopper said:


> Only 300K away from the "A-Show" on free Network TV.
> 
> That's hilarious in and of itself. Not to mention "#2 in the demo for the night."


its noway Smakdown can still be the A show after the draft.

Raw has all the good talent on it 

noone cares about Roman no matter how hard they push him just have to get the WWE title off of him and back to Raw hopefully its Cody thats does it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

If you’re doing a 0.42 and sub 1,500,000 overall now (and only competition was a hockey game) what are those numbers going to be this fall vs the NFL?

Take it to the bank AEW Dynamite will have a higher 18-49 demo this fall.

Raw with live audiences doing worse than last year’s thunderdome shows.

2016- 3.2 mil viewers
2022- 1.5 mil viewers

But in Showstopper math that’s still ok. As if a TV network will pay more now for a show that’s lost > 50% of its audience from the time they signed its deal


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> If you’re doing a 0.42 and sub 1,500,000 overall now (and only competition was a hockey game) what are those numbers going to be this fall vs the NFL?
> 
> Take it to the bank AEW Dynamite will have a higher 18-49 demo this fall.
> 
> Raw with live audiences doing worse than last year’s thunderdome shows.
> 
> 2016- 3.2 mil viewers
> 2022- 1.5 mil viewers
> 
> But in Showstopper math that’s still ok. *As if a TV network will pay more now for a show that’s lost > 50% of its audience*


*You said the same thing a few years ago and they got the biggest wrestling contract in TV history.* It was also a National Holiday, too, and they still beat everything on Cable that wasn't Game 7. That's why they will once again get a HUGE TV contract.

When the news comes down, just make sure you don't disappear from the thread like you did last time. Thanks.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Showstopper said:


> *You said the same thing a few years ago and they got the biggest wrestling contract in TV history.* It was also a National Holiday, too, and they still beat everything on Cable that wasn't Game 7. That's why they will once again get a HUGE TV contract.
> 
> When the news comes down, just make sure you don't disappear from the thread like you did last time. Thanks.


i did say the same thing 6 years ago.

But 6 years ago they hadn’t lost over 50% of their audience (the drop from 2016 to 2022 is far steeper than 2010 to 2016) AND perhaps most importantly there was not a competing wrestling show on in 2016 that was doing comparable demos at 1/5 the cost on another major cable station).

If I run USA and I know what TBS is paying for Dynamite, why on earth would I offer Raw 5x the amount TBS pays? They barely are beating a show that Turner pays practically nothing for.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Randy Lahey said:


> i did say the same thing 6 years ago.
> 
> But 6 years ago they hadn’t lost over 50% of their audience (the drop from 2016 to 2022 is far steeper than 2010 to 2016) AND perhaps most importantly there was not a competing wrestling show on in 2016 that was doing comparable demos at 1/5 the cost on another major cable station).
> 
> If I run USA and I know what TBS is paying for Dynamite, why on earth would I offer Raw 5x the amount TBS pays? They barely are beating a show that Turner pays practically nothing for.


They had fallen pretty steep in that time period as well and that's why you were saying they would either get a severe deduction in money or no contract whatsoever. Again, we know what happened from there.

USA has nothing else to offer. RAW is far and away their only show that draws. Two weeks ago, the 3rd hour of Raw beat everything on Cable AND Network television. If USA lets Raw leave, USA will never have anything that does that again, or the any sense of relevancy whatsoever; even less than USA has now. WWE and RAW has brand and market recognizability that no other wrestling show or company will ever have again, as well. And as you just told on yourself re: overall viewers pointing out the decrease they've had in that aspect, overall viewers does matter. They still do roughly double more than AEW and aren't far away from SD, which is on Network TV. All of that with a third hour that ends an hour later into the evening than SD and Dynamite.

Raw is USA's life-blood. Literally. They will pay through the nose for it again. 

Good news, though. Dynamite, with it being the show after their biggest PPV of the year this week, absolutely should beat RAW in the demo this week and should do it rather soundly. If not, then yikes.


----------

