# Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win?



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

*BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK. THERE, I SAID IT.*


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I could careless one way or the other since I'm not a women's wrestling fan and only watch SD once in awhile, but I think it's because she's not really good at much.


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## SilvasBrokenLeg (May 31, 2016)

What backlash? I doubt anyone cares enough about women's wrestling for there to be any significant backlash.


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## Strategize (Sep 1, 2016)

For me it was the lack of buildup or storyline. She just shows up, and wins in a mediocre match. 

Completely ignoring everything they've built in the last few months, which, while wasn't great, at least it was something.


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## SilvasBrokenLeg (May 31, 2016)

ShowStopper said:


> I could careless one way or the other since I'm not a women's wrestling fan and only watch SD once in awhile, but I think it's because she's not really good at much.


That can't be true. She's talented and flawless. People clearly only dislike her because she's black.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Shes boring, generic, botches a lot, kinda ugly too, no mic, probably got the title for a Total Divas angle shit.


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## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> What backlash? *I doubt anyone cares enough about women's wrestling *for there to be any significant backlash.


No one cared until Naomi won. Then suddenly the Smackdown womens title became the most prestigious title in the company and it became a travesty a bla- I mean bad wrestler like Naomi held the title.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

O look... the race card. It has nothing to do with her being a shit worker in the ring and on the mic and being that for 7 years. Nope. 

Naomi is simply in the talent range of Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, Kelly Kelly... you know, women that should never have had or ever get a title run. Even the Bellas are better than Naomi...


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## Mad Max (Jan 26, 2016)

Racism. :jericho2


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SilvasBrokenLeg said:


> That can't be true. She's talented and flawless. People clearly only dislike her because she's black.


Apparently, racism is the answer to alot of questions these days.

:lol

It's cringe-worthy at this point.


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## Kink_Brawn (Mar 4, 2015)

Well, I think it was obvious that they gave her the title as "here you go, Wrestlemania will be in your hometown and we don't have any black champions during black history month" So, it feels kind of cheap, and it's also solidified by the fact that she botched the finish of the match with a move she does all the time.


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## SilvasBrokenLeg (May 31, 2016)

Sweggeh said:


> No one cared until Naomi won. Then suddenly the Smackdown womens title became the most prestigious title in the company and it became a travesty a bla- I mean bad wrestler like Naomi held the title.


No. That is not correct.


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## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> O look... the race card. It has nothing to do with her being a shit worker in the ring and on the mic and being that for 7 years. Nope.
> 
> Naomi is simply in the talent range of Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, Kelly Kelly... you know, women that should never have had or ever get a title run. Even the Bellas are better than Naomi...


Ok, maybe you arent racist.

You are just blind. Naomi isnt a great wrestler by any means, in fact I would say she is pretty bad. But Alexa Bliss is terrible too and you loved her title run.

Cant hate on one person for botches and bad matches and like another. Thats hypocritical.


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## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

Race has something to do with it. Also the way she portrays her character. I've never been a big fan of hers but she worked her butt off to get to this point. Just compare the effort she puts in compared to Cameron.


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## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

People have just gotten it into their heads that certain wrestlers are undeserving of anything and that because they personally don't like them, they're objectively shit. Cena in the mid 2000s, Roman now. It has nothing to do with Naomi being black. Ember Moon is generally popular with NXT fans so I'm not sure why she's being used as an example. Any complaints are usually about her lack of character and build up, not her skin colour. 

It's simple fanboyism. Some fans are elitist twats and any perceived injustice against their darling leads to a shitstorm. Right now, it's cool among these people to think Naomi is the worst thing ever and how dare she go over their perfect little princess Bliss. I'm not a fan of Naomi personally but I have no real issue with her winning the championship. She's been around longer than Bliss and worked as hard as anybody else.

I'm really not seeing this massive skill gap between the two women. You have some guys acting like Ellsworth just went over Austin clean. They both suck in the ring.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Sweggeh said:


> Ok, maybe you arent racist.
> 
> You are just blind. Naomi isnt a great wrestler by any means, in fact I would say she is pretty bad. But Alexa Bliss is terrible too and you loved her title run.
> 
> Cant hate on one person for botches and bad matches and hate another.


Alexa is great on the mic. Naomi is not. 

Alexa is passable in the ring. Not great and obviously green, but improving and not fucking up the same shit after 7 years. Naomi is still terrible, still misses her moves because she is sloppy and reckless, and botches her own finish and had to rely on the more green wrestler to salvage the botch. 

Yeah, Alexa is clearly as terrible as the talentless waste of a roster spot that is Naomi. Fuck sake, I've ripped into Naomi for a while now because she has never improved and is still the botching, untalented person she was years ago.


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## Acezwicker (Apr 10, 2016)

The lack of story or build up to it. There was a better option in a triple threat between Alexa, Mickie and Becky.


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## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

Alexa has a lot of marks behind her. Naomi is one of the last relics of the old guard.


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## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

adamclark52 said:


> Alexa has a lot of marks behind her. Naomi is one of the last relics of the old guard.


Good point. She seemed shocked when she got the "You deserve it chants." You know that bothered a lot of people who feel she isn't worthy enough for that title — or even that chant...


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## Crasp (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't think it's racism. At least, I don't think that's the main reason for most people.

The hate is OTT though. Her flaws are incredibly overblown.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Crasp said:


> I don't think it's racism. At least, I don't think that's the main reason for most people.
> 
> The hate is OTT though. Her flaws are incredibly overblown.


Rewatch the match Sunday... no seriously. Do it. Watch closely. I thought she only botched 4 or 5 moves. But she was missing nearly every third move she was attempting. She missed the flipping lariat, a spinning back elbow, several kicks, her finisher twice... and this is not an isolated incident. There are multiple matches where her botching is on full display. She is the female version of Sin Cara.


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## Roxinius (Jul 21, 2014)

yes ita always the race card not her lack of any semblance of progression in the ring or on the mic Bliss may be green but shes leagues a head of botchomi


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## ChaoticMessiah (Jan 6, 2015)

I mean, while I'm male and a confirmed Blissfit (I even kept tweeting it at her in the hopes she'd pick up on use of that pun and now she's using it) but all the female friends I have are also Bliss fans and genuinely weren't happy about Naomi winning because 'Alexa's amazing at what she does and it makes no sense for her to lose to Naomi, this is bullshit'.

My best friend and I only really bother with SD infrequently and when we do watch, it's because we only really like Alexa because the booking for others we like has been shit enough to make us not give a shit about them. I spoke to her yesterday and she wasn't happy at all with the EC results and I genuinely get the feeling we won't be watching this week (though we've not discussed watching SD tomorrow yet, we normally watch on Wednesdays on a streaming site because I have Sky Sports but she doesn't and we can only manage to get through the shows by watching together so we can mock the bullshit and discuss something else during a boring match/promo, which happens 85% of the time at the very least. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if we mutually agreed to skip this week's SD, purely based on Alexa losing the title to Naomi).

It feels like a few people here and a lot of people on Reddit have this weird fetish where because Alexa happens to be an attractive woman, they have to pretend she's not very good as a talker, actress or wrestler and then try to justify it with ridiculous reasoning while those same people pretend that Trish Stratus got over and is a HOFer due to talent rather than looks (she was basically dogshit in the ring but woe betide anyone who was actually watching while she was on the roster speaks the truth to these kids who only know of her thanks to the WWE propaganda machine, post-Trish retirement).

Then again, popular things tend to be hated by a minority of vocal neckbeards just to be contrary so Alexa Bliss seems to fit that to a tee, judging from some of the comments I've seen mostly on Reddit but also spilling over to this place too.


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## Jersey (Jun 24, 2014)

Not many wanted Bliss reign to end just yet that's why.


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## JC00 (Nov 20, 2011)

Why? Because there was no build. She came back after months off and 3 weeks later was given the title because WM is in her hometown. 

There is also the fact that her two biggest matches in her career she's botched the finish.

WM30 was in the women's title match and the finish was supposed to be AJ grabbing her hand and make it look like Naomi was tapping out, instead Naomi tapped out all on her own.

Then biggest moment of her career and she botched her finisher because she rushed it and Alexa couldn't get into place in time. If Naomi landed 4 inches more to the left, probably would have broken some of Alexa's ribs. 

She was also involved in that incident in '15 when she pinned Charlotte when that wasn't the finish.


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## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

It has nothing to do with racism, to even suggest that is ridiculous.


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## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

ChaoticMessiah said:


> I mean, while I'm male and a confirmed Blissfit (I even kept tweeting it at her in the hopes she'd pick up on use of that pun and now she's using it) but all the female friends I have are also Bliss fans and genuinely weren't happy about Naomi winning because 'Alexa's amazing at what she does and it makes no sense for her to lose to Naomi, this is bullshit'.
> 
> My best friend and I only really bother with SD infrequently and when we do watch, it's because we only really like Alexa because the booking for others we like has been shit enough to make us not give a shit about them. I spoke to her yesterday and she wasn't happy at all with the EC results and I genuinely get the feeling we won't be watching this week (though we've not discussed watching SD tomorrow yet, we normally watch on Wednesdays on a streaming site because I have Sky Sports but she doesn't and we can only manage to get through the shows by watching together so we can mock the bullshit and discuss something else during a boring match/promo, which happens 85% of the time at the very least. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if we mutually agreed to skip this week's SD, purely based on Alexa losing the title to Naomi).
> 
> ...


I was with you and could understand where you were coming from until that dumb part at the end. A big part of Alexa's fanbase are the online neckbeards who like her because of her looks and are melting down at Naomi's win.

If you look at the actual crowds Bliss gets zero reaction despite being pushed very hard for quite a while now.


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## XDarkholmeX (Jun 17, 2014)

Why do people on here still say no one cares about women's wrestling? Acting like this is 2010 or something (at least 2010 WWE that is, there have always been fans of women's wrestling outside WWE.)

On topic though, imo Naomi's pretty boring, is pretty bad on the mic, and she botches on the regular. It feels like she won the title more so because she was there for a while and never had it instead of her actually deserving it. The rosters on both brands are really thin too so not a lot of people to consider putting it on either.


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

She's not someone who the fans took as ready to be champions. She's a good wrestler for sure. But look at Daniel Bryan's momentum when he won the title off Cena at SummerSlam that's what we want to see for first time champions. Not like with Roman Reigns or Naomi where they are just handed the title out of the blue. Doesn't mean they are bad wrestlers, we just want the guys who have organically been built up to that point to win it.

And don't try to bring race into it. Sasha Banks is black and most people here love her to pieces as well as Ember Moon on NXT


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

JC00 said:


> Why? Because there was no build. She came back after months off and 3 weeks later was given the title because WM is in her hometown.
> 
> There is also the fact that her two biggest matches in her career she's botched the finish.
> 
> ...


You're racist for bringing up facts! 

And this isn't the only forum where the few Naomi fans out there scream racism... it's the only defense they have since it is obvious Naomi is an untalented wrestler that can only botch her way through matches and fumble through a promo. "Feel the glo..." yeah, we feel it... hard not to when you are a nuclear meltdown level of disaster.


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm happy Naomi finally got her chance to be recognized as a champion. Some of the criticism levied against her is that she's a botch machine while Alexa is praised for being green as grass. I like Alexa but she's not some standard of wrestling that the belt no longer has value because she lost it.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Empress said:


> I'm happy Naomi finally got her chance to be recognized as a champion. Some of the criticism levied against her is that she's a botch machine while Alexa is praised for being green as grass. I like Alexa but she's not some standard of wrestling that the belt no longer has value because she lost it.


If you replace Alexa with Nikki Bella, and I'm sure you know my feelings about the Bellas, I would still be as pissed. The only worse champion you could find would be Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, or Nia Jax. The belt has lost value not because of who lost it, but because of the blackhole of talent that now wears it.


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> If you replace Alexa with Nikki Bella, and I'm sure you know my feelings about the Bellas, I would still be as pissed. The only worse champion you could find would be Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, or Nia Jax. The belt has lost value not because of who lost it, but because of the blackhole of talent that now wears it.


Nikki is another talent that gets more hate than credit. She's not Luna Vachon but she can have a credible match and has improved. The same holds true for Naomi. She's not polished but her botches are used against her as though others have crisp matches. 

The only thing outside of Naomi's control is creative. I wish she would've had a real feud with Alexa before getting the belt. But the WWE likes to play hot tag with its championships. She's probably losing by the next PPV. Or even tonight. So, all this backlash may be moot.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Empress said:


> Nikki is another talent that gets more hate than credit. She's not Luna Vachon but she can have a credible match and has improved. The same holds true for Naomi. She's not polished but her botches are used against her as though others have crisp matches.
> 
> The only thing outside of Naomi's control is creative. I wish she would've had a real feud with Alexa before getting the belt. But the WWE likes to play hot tag with its championships. She's probably losing by the next PPV. Or even tonight. So, all this backlash may be moot.


First, the others have far fewer matches filled with botches. Second, there is a botch then there is Naomi levels of botch... rewatch several of her matches and you see massive and embarrassing botches. Just this last match she missed simple spinning elbows, kicks, lariats, and her finisher TWICE. That isn't a bad night... that is an awful night that is routine for Naomi. 

She is an embarrassment as champion.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

The Boy Wonder said:


> Race has something to do with it. Also the way she portrays her character. I've never been a big fan of hers but she worked her butt off to get to this point. Just compare the effort she puts in compared to Cameron.


Race may have somthing to do with it, but the main problem in my opinion was the lack of buildup. Naomi wins like 2 mathes against Bliss and she is now Womens Champion. It felt weird. It was a filler feud that most people were expecting Alexa to win so she could move on to something else and then Naomi wins out of nowhere. There was no build and it made zero sense. Naomi isnt over at all.


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> First, the others have far fewer matches filled with botches. Second, there is a botch then there is Naomi levels of botch... rewatch several of her matches and you see massive and embarrassing botches. Just this last match she missed simple spinning elbows, kicks, lariats, and her finisher TWICE. That isn't a bad night... that is an awful night that is routine for Naomi.
> 
> She is an embarrassment as champion.


A botch is a botch. When the others you believe are so much better than Naomi are flawless in every match, your criticism will hold more weight with me.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Empress said:


> A botch is a botch. When the others you believe are so much better than Naomi are flawless in every match, your criticism will hold more weight with me.


Almost everyone on the roster is better than her... Dana Brooke and Eva Marie are the only ones that botch more egregiously than her. This is the same woman that botched her WM match finish for crying out loud.


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## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

The fallout is like a nuclear meltdown in here lol

I would say pure rage may be a better word than hate


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## Black Widow (Jul 3, 2014)

Why the fact that she is black has to be mentioned at all? She botches a lot, she can't talk to save her life, she has no character, she has no charisma and "Feel the glow" is really stupid and it makes no sense.That is why some people don't like her not because she is black.


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## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Here is a connection

She married an Uso who is related to Reigns. Therefore she is related to Reigns.


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## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

Sweggeh said:


> Im usually the last person to say this but I think Naomi is suffering from the same thing that makes Ember Moon a "terrible" choice to be NXT womens champion, and the same thing that makes Kofi Kingston "midcard level talent" despite being better in the ring and on the mic than most main eventers.
> 
> If Naomi looked like Bliss or Becky people would be declaring her one of the best womens wrestlers of all time and completely ignoring all botches and mistakes.



Answered your own question. The rallies against Ember really made it clear. The current climate certainly contributes to it but it's always been there. While for many of us it does not matter, for the good chunk of knuckle dragging neanderthals that consume WWE programming, it absolutely matters; the fan base as a whole aren't ready (nor willing) to see black men and women featured prominently on the card. We can't relate to people who look differently than us, especially if we consider them inherently inferior and their features unattractive. This goes doubly for the women. We are harsher critics of blacks as a result, which is why Naomi is being blamed for the finish botch when Bliss explicitly oversold on the second attempt, rolled out of position on the first, and blew an illegal pin spot (that got boos.)

That never happened because the colored girl was in the ring occupying space. 


Naomi not only doesn't pass the paper bag test like a Sasha Banks, but she actually looks ethnic and comes from two black parents. To a lot of us, it doesn't matter. Society as a whole however isn't there and while I'll believe we'll get there in our lifetime in large part due to the current climate and everything about to come to a head once and for all, we're still 20+ years from the storm being totally weathered. It'll get worse before it gets better and nothing I read surprises me any longer. The sentiment has always been there, it's simply no longer being hidden which is as much of a good thing as it is bad. You don't remedy a malignant tumor by ignoring it; you remove it.


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## KingCosmos (Aug 18, 2013)

I find it funny people saying Naomi can't be champ when she is a bad worker when garbage Bliss was just champ. "B-b-but what about mic work?" Please people overrate Bliss like crazy, ALL she does is the typical bratty Diva we have seen countless of times.


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## Eric Fleischer (Mar 28, 2012)

I actually like Naomi, for people to not recognize that her pure athletic ability puts her head and shoulders above plugs like Eva Marie and Kelly Kelly shows that some people don't know a goddamn thing about pro wrestling.

My main problem is the belt changes hands too much. All the belts. It's worse with the RAW women.


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## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Lothario said:


> Answered your own question. The rallies against Ember really made it clear. The current climate certainly contributes to it but it's always been there. While for many of us it does not matter, for the good chunk of knuckle dragging neanderthals that consume WWE programming, it absolutely matters; the fan base as a whole aren't ready (nor willing) to see black men and women featured prominently on the card. We can't relate to people who look differently than us, especially if we consider them inherently inferior and their features unattractive. This goes doubly for the women. We are harsher critics of blacks as a result, which is why Naomi is being blamed for the finish botch when Bliss explicitly oversold on the second attempt, rolled out of position on the first, and blew an illegal pin spot (that got boos.)
> 
> That never happened because the colored girl was in the ring occupying space.
> 
> Naomi not only doesn't pass the paper bag test like a Sasha Banks, but she actually looks ethnic and comes from two black parents. To a lot of us, it doesn't matter. Society as a whole however isn't there and while I'll believe we'll get there in our lifetime in large part due to the current climate and everything about to come to a head once and for all, we're still 20+ years from the storm being totally weathered. It'll get worse before it gets better and nothing I read surprises me any longer. The sentiment has always been there, it's simply no longer being hidden which is as much of a good thing as it is bad. You don't remedy a malignant tumor by ignoring it; you remove it.


Disagree she looks way better than banks to me


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## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Sweggeh said:


> While most normal people were happy for Naomi finally winning the title, there were some groups of people across the internet (pretty much all dudes) that were having mental breakdowns over her win like she was 2007 Cena or something.
> 
> Apparently, these people are getting so heated about this because Naomi shouldnt be champion due to occasional botches and apparently not being great on the mic.
> 
> ...


You know it , I know it and they all know it's the truth.


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## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

scshaastin said:


> Disagree she looks way better than banks to me


It's not about who is more attractive when it pertains to colorism. In any case, if what is said doesn't apply to your thought process, you shouldn't be concerned with defending your stance.


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## AllenNoah (Jan 12, 2017)

Kabraxal said:


> Almost everyone on the roster is better than her... Dana Brooke and Eva Marie are the only ones that botch more egregiously than her. *This is the same woman that botched her WM match finish for crying out loud.*


So did Mickie. Shit happens.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Because Bliss was killing it and had so much potential to be one of the greatest women champion of all time had she had a lengthy title reign. It was far too early to take the strap off her. Terrible decision. Who the fuck cares about Naomi anyways?


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Sweggeh said:


> While most normal people were happy for Naomi finally winning the title, there were some groups of people across the internet (pretty much all dudes) that were having mental breakdowns over her win like she was 2007 Cena or something.
> 
> Apparently, these people are getting so heated about this because Naomi shouldnt be champion due to occasional botches and apparently not being great on the mic.
> 
> ...


I don't think that it has to do with looks(IMO Naomi is absolutely beautiful so maybe I'm biased in that regard) It's more of a fanboy nature about their favourites looking weak or simply not being the aforementioned women which is still fanboy in nature.


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## Eric Fleischer (Mar 28, 2012)

DJ Punk said:


> Because Bliss was killing it and had so much potential to be one of the greatest women champion of all time had she had a lengthy title reign. It was far too early to take the strap off her. Terrible decision. Who the fuck cares about Naomi anyways?


No, they never should have taken the strap off Becky.


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## IWp (Aug 23, 2014)

Don't know, of the 2 women's titles, the Sdl championship is by far the less prestigious belt: if she won the Raw championship I could understand people beign pissed, because Naomi is far from good in the ring and extremely boring outside the ring, but she beat a green talent for the Sdl title, so that they could have a black champion for the black history month. It's no big deal.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Racism. Smarkism. NXT fanboyism. Indy fanboyism. Take your pick.

And it bares repeating; Alexa Bliss is the most overrated female wrestler ever. I see people actually saying she could have been the greatest woman's Champion of all time. WTF?


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## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

It's simple really. She shouldn't be champion.

I can only speak for myself, but for me, it's not even really about Naomi, it's about all the other, more talented, women who should have the belt instead of her.


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## RippedOnNitro (Apr 29, 2015)

To me she is just really boring. Not entertaining at the mic and not in the ring.


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

im an alexa fan so rightly im not pleased she dropped the belt to someone i dont view as talented


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## NeyNey (Sep 26, 2012)

After all these years and all the stuff she went through to get there, I don't get it either!!
She worked her ass off! From FCW to NXT, to the Funkadactyls, to Team B.A.D., she always got overlooked!
Few years ago she was the most talented women on the roster, nobody wrestled like her and nobody had the talent and the skill set she had.
And still, she didn't get the title back then, which was ridiculous!!
I remember when she won a battle royal at the TLC pre-show for the #1 contender in 2012. 
It was fucking awesome. But hey, let's not give her the title yet lol.
She has so much energy in her moves and is so fast and so athletic that some women just can't keep up with her.
Not saying Naomi is free from botches, but most of them happend 'cause the other girls were slow as fuck, especially in 2012/2013 when we didn't have the womens division we have today.


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## Rookie of the Year (Mar 26, 2015)

Kabraxal said:


> O look... the race card. It has nothing to do with her being a shit worker in the ring and on the mic and being that for 7 years. Nope.
> 
> Naomi is simply in the talent range of Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, Kelly Kelly... you know, women that should never have had or ever get a title run. Even the Bellas are better than Naomi...


Exactly this. And those other women you mentioned have received far more shit over getting pushes than Naomi is currently getting.

Man, I hate the race card. People that use it tend to just ignore every fault or legitimate criticism of a person and just continue to say in more varied and aggravated ways, "It's because he/she is black!"

Here's one that might ruffle a few feathers- I think there's been exactly two worthy candidates for a black WWE champion- Kofi Kingston and MVP. Both those guys are/were well rounded enough (talking, charisma, look, wrestling ability) to have a run at the top. But even then, neither were so great that it seems like a huge omission that they never made that step.

Others... Booker T, Shelton Benjamin, Lashley. Booker had fuck all above average matches in WWE, his style was perfect for IC title level. Benjamin was an amazing athlete with some great matches, but totally lacked charisma and talking. Lashley had the main event look, but no charisma, speaking ability, or ability to have a great match.

And I can hear the counter-arguments, "but they made The Miz, Khali etc champion when they weren't great at everything!" Yeah. They shouldn't have. It should be a meritocracy, the very best reach the top. Fuck pushing anyone to the top to fill some race quota. I don't care if you're white, black, yellow, green, whatever. The best talents get the best spots.

Kofi got a raw deal because Orton got mad at him or something? I don't know why they didn't pull the trigger with MVP, maybe he wasn't a wrestling machine but the Benoit series showed he can bring fire with the right opponent. Mark Henry got great at promos in 2011, but 21 years in WWE and I can't think of a great Henry match. Another future contender is Big E. He's had some fun matches and obviously has the mic skills/charisma. I just don't know if he can flip the switch and do serious main event stuff.

The rest can GTFO. And Naomi sucks.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

BigDaveBatista said:


> im an alexa fan so rightly im not pleased she dropped the belt to someone i dont view as talented


There's some irony there...


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## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> There's some irony there...


differences of opinion pal i know you arent a fan of alexa thus dont view her as talented

although feel free to show me even one moment in naomis entire career that was better than even alexas promo on smackdown


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

BigDaveBatista said:


> differences of opinion pal i know you arent a fan of alexa thus dont view her as talented
> 
> although feel free to show me even one moment in naomis entire career that was better than even alexas promo on smackdown


Err no...I am a fan of Alexa I just don't overrate her. She's mediocre at best in the ring, and good at best at everything else. She's not the uber once in a millennium talent her Super fans want to pretend she is.

Naomi's standout matches vs Nikki and AJ were better than any Alexa match, and Naomi's heel turn promo was just as good as any Bliss promo.

Alexa can one day be a great talent, but she isn't yet, she's green as grass in the ring and fans like you pretending she's some super talent is an insult to the more talented wrestlers. She's young, she's relatively new to wrestling, there's no need to pretend she's already great just because she's hot. I'll say it again I like Bliss but I'm not going to pretend she's great just because I'm a fan.


----------



## LucasXXII (Apr 21, 2014)

Personally I'd say screw those people shitting on Naomi because she is apparently "ugly". That doesn't justify the decision to end Alexa's title run prematurely and treat the title as a consolation prize, though. I don't agree with Alexa winning it at TLC either, in fact I think they should have just let Becky keep the title until or even through WM. SD women's division already have less star power than RAW so you've got to raise the prestige of SD's title by creating actual stars, instead they've only managed to make everyone seem equal but not quite as good as the RAW women. Right now SD's women's title is of far less status than RAW's one, and it should not have been the case. Naomi winning the title out of the blue just solidifies the fact and makes things worse.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

1st off, don't think anyone died and made you official spokesperson for "most normal people".

2nd, sure alot of people know the only reason she was gifted a title is because its "black history month" and the hometown WM thing, which the announcers have been gabbing about for weeks before the hot shot title change - And it was done at the expense of a popular hottie in a rushed, shabby way to accommodate a botch queen.

So actually, I think most normal people are hoping it is a very short reign.


----------



## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Err no...I am a fan of Alexa I just don't overrate her. She's mediocre at best in the ring, and good at best at everything else. She's not the uber once in a millennium talent her Super fans want to pretend she is.
> 
> Naomi's standout matches vs Nikki and AJ were better than any Alexa match, and Naomi's heel turn promo was just as good as any Bliss promo.
> 
> Alexa can one day be a great talent, but she isn't yet, she's green as grass in the ring and fans like you pretending she's some super talent is an insult to the more talented wrestlers. She's young, she's relatively new to wrestling, there's no need to pretend she's already great just because she's hot. I'll say it again I like Bliss but I'm not going to pretend she's great just because I'm a fan.


so when you mentioned irony in your previous post you were referring to batista?


----------



## -Sambo Italiano- (Jan 3, 2007)

I was pretty annoyed. While I was a little sceptical when Alexa won the title I felt she was really building something and getting pretty over.

They risked killing her momentum for a jobber and did it with little build. I'm trying to think of the ways this could turn out and non of them seem better than letting Alexa hold the title.

It's not really about Naomi for me. I would have been equally annoyed if the Ascension had beaten American Alpha for their titles. If Mojo Rawley randomly takes the IC title off Dean I'll feel the same way about that.


----------



## Monterossa (Jul 25, 2012)

It has nothing to do with her being black. There're many white jobbers who never went anywhere near a title, and also get hated by the fans.

Naomi is just not that great. My opinion about her will remain the same if she's white.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

Rookie of the Year said:


> Exactly this. And those other women you mentioned have received far more shit over getting pushes than Naomi is currently getting.
> 
> Man, I hate the race card. People that use it tend to just ignore every fault or legitimate criticism of a person and just continue to say in more varied and aggravated ways, "It's because he/she is black!"
> 
> ...


Racism exists. So long as it does, so will race cards. I assure you that actual racism is far more of a hindrance to those of us affected by it than 'race cards' are to people who are no more than casual observers.

As for "it should be a meritocracy" I think you'll find that's what most people argue. But as you have alluded to, people will quite rightly have questions if the argument against minority performers winning titles is to point out every single disqualifying flaw of theirs, while other wrestlers with as many or even flaws are given titles.

Just as common, if not more so, than people playing race cards to overlook minorities' flaws are people playing race cards to denigrate minority successes. 

Accusations of tokenism and claims such as "he/she only got the award, won the title, was given X or Y because he/she is black" are ubiquitous and ignore any diligence or talent demonstrated by the individual concerned.

Saying it 'has nothing to do with racism' or 'no one cares that she's black' is clearly shown to be false when a great deal of the comments begin with complaints that her race was the only reason for the title win.


----------



## Liger!Liger! (Apr 6, 2016)

Personally, i think it didn't make sense. Naomi pins Alexa and 500 years later she gets a shot and wins it. That's pretty much what happened.


----------



## ErichZann (May 20, 2015)

The Boy Wonder said:


> *BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK. THERE, I SAID IT.*


Also, she is not very good.......at all.


----------



## SpeedStick (Feb 11, 2010)

No indy cred + she's from FCW


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

SpeedStick said:


> No indy cred + she's from FCW


Alexa is not from the indies either so don't play that shit. Fcw and nxt are th same thing. Fcw had great stories and opportunities for its wrestlers too.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

BigDaveBatista said:


> so when you mentioned irony in your previous post you were referring to batista?


Just no. It's ironic that you're shitting on Naomi when you're a big Alexa fan.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/2119210-official-naomi-womens-champion-hate-thread.html

Blonde + average at best ring skills = Gold
Dark skinned + average at best ring skills = Waste of spot in the roster / Disgrace aka people making official hate threads for you

IWC's logic everyone :maury


----------



## DJHJR86 (Jan 31, 2015)

Sweggeh said:


> Apparently, these people are getting so heated about this because Naomi shouldnt be champion due to occasional botches and apparently not being great on the mic.


The same people came all over their bellies when Bayley won. Which is ironic.


----------



## Mr. Socko (Sep 2, 2006)

Because there are very few people who care about Women's wrestling that aren't Becky or Bliss fans and both groups feel like they got screwed with Naomi winning out of the blue.

I like it since it was unexpected and Naomi has always been a hard worker and occasional good promo.


----------



## utvolzac (Jul 25, 2013)

I don't care if she's white, black, brown or green. I don't like her because she sucks at everything.

Zero character development.
Zero promo development.
Zero in-ring development.

She's been around forever, and is still making the same botches she made as a rookie. Yes she's athletic, but that doesn't mean shit if you can't execute the moves.

No to mention, she's tainted by the stench of Total Divas.

Alexa is still green, but at least she plays her character well and gives a good promo. Plus she's smoking hot.


----------



## JC00 (Nov 20, 2011)

Here is Becky Lynch explaining why 

https://streamable.com/vetj


There was no story to it.. It was just, Naomi returns, WM is in her hometown this year, wins title 


At least when Alexa won it from Becky there had been 2 months of build up between the 2 and Alexa goaded her into a tables match after she put Becky through a table at the contract signing and Becky agreed to it because she was pissed off.


----------



## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Just no. It's ironic that you're shitting on Naomi when you're a big Alexa fan.


ah okay then fair enough 
it would have been nicer thought if they gave it more story before the title switch


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/2119210-official-naomi-womens-champion-hate-thread.html
> 
> Blonde + average at best ring skills = Gold
> Dark skinned + average at best ring skills = Waste of spot in the roster / Disgrace aka people making official hate threads for you
> ...


It is actually:

Average ring skills + awesome character work + awesome promos while showing signs of improvent = "gold"
Shit ring skills + shit character work + shit promos all while showing NO signs of improvement for 7 YEARS = absolute joke and disgrace

Naomi is shit on because she sucks in every possible way you can suck in the ring and on the mic. It isn't that hard to understand the simple truth.


----------



## Bung (Feb 8, 2017)

She is ugly and married to one of those uso losers.


----------



## DJHJR86 (Jan 31, 2015)

Brodus Clay said:


> Shes boring, generic, botches a lot, kinda ugly too, no mic, probably got the title for a Total Divas angle shit.


You just described 90% of the women's division.


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> O look... the race card. It has nothing to do with her being a shit worker in the ring and on the mic and being that for 7 years. Nope.
> 
> Naomi is simply in the talent range of Eva Marie, Dana Brooke, Kelly Kelly... you know, women that should never have had or ever get a title run. Even the Bellas are better than Naomi...


Warrior was in the talent range of Giant Gonzalez but that didn't stop him from being WHC.

Jesus man, just stop already. We get it, you hate Naomi, there is no need for you to hate on every fucking thread.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

There are FAR women on the roster


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RealLegend Killer said:


> Warrior was in the talent range of Giant Gonzalez but that didn't stop him from being WHC.
> 
> Jesus man, just stop already. We get it, you hate Naomi, there is no need for you to hate on every fucking thread.


Yes, a man in two back to back WM classics and several other good matches against a guy like Rude is in the range of Giant Gonzalez. 

When you try to white knight for Naomi, you should probably actually know what you are talking about instead of spouting absolute bullshit like that. Just a hint.


----------



## SureUmm (Dec 4, 2016)

If the only thing a wrestler can tell me about themselves is that they're athletic and to "feel the glow", not much to root for there.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Mahmenn said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/2119210-official-naomi-womens-champion-hate-thread.html
> 
> Blonde + average at best ring skills = Gold
> Dark skinned + average at best ring skills = Waste of spot in the roster / Disgrace aka people making official hate threads for you
> ...


Plenty of people hate on the white wrestlers too. And lots of fans like Sasha Banks. So don't start that race shit


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Yes, a man in two back to back WM classics and several other good matches against a guy like Rude is in the range of Giant Gonzalez.
> 
> When you try to white knight for Naomi, you should probably actually know what you are talking about instead of spouting absolute bullshit like that. Just a hint.


Classics? Rude carried his ass in that feud and Hogan is well, Hogan.

I'm not even Naomi fan but I'm sick of you calling someone a bad in ring worker while being a fan of Ultimate Warrior who was pushed just because he had impressive physique.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RealLegend Killer said:


> Classics? Rude carried his ass in that feud and Hogan is well, Hogan.
> 
> I'm not even Naomi fan but I'm sick of you calling someone a bad in ring worker while being a fan of Ultimate Warrior who was pushed just because he had impressive physique.


He has good matches with Rude, Hogan, and Savage and a pretty good match with Dibiase... three of those four are great technical wrestlers and Hogan is an underrated worker yes, but you aren't on the shit tier of wrestlers when you have multiple matches against different opponents that you can call good. 

Naomi has no match that is even average. She hasn't even been carried to a decent match. So keep getting sick of her being called a shit worker and throwing your tantrum over Warrior without actually defending Naomi. You are truly making your case.


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> He has good matches with Rude, Hogan, and Savage and a pretty good match with Dibiase... three of those four are great technical wrestlers and Hogan is an underrated worker yes, but you aren't on the shit tier of wrestlers when you have multiple matches against different opponents that you can call good.
> 
> Naomi has no match that is even average. She hasn't even been carried to a decent match. So keep getting sick of her being called a shit worker and throwing your tantrum over Warrior without actually defending Naomi. You are truly making your case.


Almost everyone had good matches with guys like Rude and Savage but his other matches and feuds are average at best.

You can't compare her to Sasha, Becky or Bayley but also you can't compare her to Kelly Kelly or Rosa Mendes dude.
She is average just like other girls in the division but she has this new gimmick that is over with the casuals, WM is in her hometown so they made her champ.
And yes, she improved her skills, you just don't see it because of your hate


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RealLegend Killer said:


> Almost everyone had good matches with guys like Rude and Savage but his other matches and feuds are average at best.
> 
> You can't compare her to Sasha, Becky or Bayley but also you can't compare her to Kelly Kelly or Rosa Mendes dude.
> She is average just like other girls in the division but she has this new gimmick that is over with the casuals, WM is in her hometown so they made her champ.
> And yes, she improved her skills, you just don't see it because of your hate


Improve? Are you talking about the woman that just injured herself in yet another botch because she has no wrestling talent? Are you talking about the woman that was utterly destroyed on the mic last night and could only repeat "Imma snatch you" like a blithering idiot before Alexa turned that around on her and destroyed her even worse?

Sorry, she hasn't improved. She is still the same shit promo and the same shit wrestler. 

Also hint: WMVI is nearly universally considered a classic. Best think twice before hand waving it away to try and defend the talentless waste of space Naomi.


----------



## blackholeson (Oct 3, 2014)

*Because no one gives a fuck about Naomi. I'd be shocked if people knew any diva outside of Charlotte, and Bayley.*


----------



## Afff (Sep 2, 2016)

blackholeson said:


> *Because no one gives a fuck about Naomi. I'd be shocked if people knew any diva outside of Charlotte, and Bayley.*


I'd be shocked if any of my friends knew any diva at all. It's hilarious how seriously people here take this stuff. Not many people really give a crap about WWE in the first place.

Really think everybody should chill out.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

AmWolves10 said:


> Plenty of people hate on the white wrestlers too. And lots of fans like Sasha Banks. So don't start that race shit


"Race shit" is fictional to those who never experience it . What you call race card will exist as long as racism does , I don't recall seeing a colored female wrestler getting praised at all , most of the time they are rather very getting shit on , teased on their flaws and called ugly.

On the other hand , you got the likes of Trish Stratus , Maryse , Emma , Summer Rae , Charlotte and even Alexa Bliss who seem to be IWC's biggest darlings. I might be wrong tho but right now that's what I'm seeing.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> "Race shit" is fictional to those who never experience it . What you call race card will exist as long as racism does , I don't recall seeing a colored female wrestler getting praised at all , most of the time they are rather very getting shit on , teased on their flaws and called ugly.
> 
> On the other hand , you got the likes of Trish Stratus , Maryse , Emma , Summer Rae , Charlotte and even Alexa Bliss who seem to be IWC's biggest darlings. I might be wrong tho but right now that's what I'm seeing.


So you weren't around when many here were behind Alicia Fox and want her to get a better push still? Or how many were marking out over Ember moon came to NXT? Or Awesome Kong or Jacky or........ seriously, need I go on to disprove that idiocy? Probably not, you'll just ignore it so you can continue to scream racism mindlessly.


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Improve? Are you talking about the woman that just injured herself in yet another botch because she has no wrestling talent? Are you talking about the woman that was utterly destroyed on the mic last night and could only repeat "Imma snatch you" like a blithering idiot before Alexa turned that around on her and destroyed her even worse?
> 
> Sorry, she hasn't improved. She is still the same shit promo and the same shit wrestler.
> 
> Also hint: WMVI is nearly universally considered a classic. Best think twice before hand waving it away to try and defend the talentless waste of space Naomi.


Both of them screwed the finish and you should know that promos in WWE are scripted.
Compare this Naomi with 2014-2015 Naomi and you'll see improvement.

I didin't say that WMVI is not classic, I'm just saying that Warrior is bad wrestler and I can't believe that someone who thinks that Warrior was good wrestler talks trash about someone calling him shit wrestler and shit promo.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RealLegend Killer said:


> Both of them screwed the finish and you should know that promos in WWE are scripted.
> Compare this Naomi with 2014-2015 Naomi and you'll see improvement.
> 
> I didin't say that WMVI is not classic, I'm just saying that Warrior is bad wrestler and I can't believe that someone who thinks that Warrior was good wrestler talks trash about someone calling him shit wrestler and shit promo.


Warrior was a passable wrestler to good WORKER... he isn't one of the greats, but he isn't one of the worst. 

And I have compared Naomi now to back then and to the few development clips I've seen.... she hasn't improved once. She still misses simple lariats, elbows, and kicks. She still botches her finishes. Also, Alexa did not screw up the finish. If your finish is aerial, it is up to you to make sure the opponent is in position. Alexa made sure Naomi was in position and, o look, landed square on Naomi's knees. Naomi just threw Alexa around then threw herself around without bothering to ensure Alexa was in the proper position. At some point, I think Naomi's opponents need to stop trying to save her ass and let her completely miss and look like the idiot she is in the ring. 

Alexa is fucking luckily she wasn't severely injured. ANd this isn't the first opponent to be lucky not to have been injured by the shitty ass botch machine.


----------



## Rookie of the Year (Mar 26, 2015)

ColeStar said:


> Racism exists. So long as it does, so will race cards. I assure you that actual racism is far more of a hindrance to those of us affected by it than 'race cards' are to people who are no more than casual observers.
> 
> As for "it should be a meritocracy" I think you'll find that's what most people argue. But as you have alluded to, people will quite rightly have questions if the argument against minority performers winning titles is to point out every single disqualifying flaw of theirs, while other wrestlers with as many or even flaws are given titles.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the well written response. I agree that racism does exist, but racism is a different thing to playing the race card. Racism is a disgusting thing. Maybe it's a naive view of the world on my part, but racism, sexism, homophobia, all those shit things seem to be built on hating what they don't understand, hating it because it's different. As long as you're a good person- and when discussing wrestling, the performers work hard and have skill- that's all that matters to me. Life's too short to hate people for things outside their control that don't affect me in any way.

I don't think race was the reason for Naomi's win, I think the bookers realised a week or so ago that Naomi was from Orlando, and that it would be a nice boost for one of their champs to be a hometown girl. Great for media and promotion.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> So you weren't around when many here were behind Alicia Fox and want her to get a better push still? Or how many were marking out over Ember moon came to NXT? Or Awesome Kong or Jacky or........ seriously, need I go on to disprove that idiocy? Probably not, you'll just ignore it so you can continue to scream racism mindlessly.


I was around , I was not 24/7 in wrestling threads since I stopped watching WWE for awhile but on the rare occasions I checked WF out I've seen much more people were shitting on them (except Ember Moon who's fairly popular around here). 

I bet you're just going to mindlessly ignore all the posts saying she won because of "Black History Month" and praising Alexa as a champ despite having one of the cringiest run possible.

Anyway It's not like all those "darlings" you named could only be counted on one hand and one of them was released a while ago and the other left the company too and is semi retired :maury


----------



## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

RealLegend Killer said:


> Classics? Rude carried his ass in that feud and Hogan is well, Hogan.
> 
> I'm not even Naomi fan but I'm sick of you calling someone a bad in ring worker while being a fan of Ultimate Warrior who was pushed just because he had impressive physique.


Yes, classics. If you read around here in the classic section you'll see that there are a few here, myself included, that call Warrior vs Savage their fav WM match and it's pretty much basic common knowledge that Warrrior vs Hogan is considered one of the most important matches in wrestling history. You can sit the fuck down down with that "he got carried" shit as a way to completely dismiss his contributions altogether. He was a guy that might now have been as highly regarded in ring as some of his opponents but he carried his weight when it was time to do so. His promo work is an acquired taste. I get that not everyone will praise him for it. I loved his promos. Added a great deal to his character and his natural charisma is off the charts. 

And you're comparing him to Naomi. Warriors got more reaction from crowds for running to the ring than Naomi has gotten her whole career. I have a feeling you weren't around to actually watch Warrior and are just going on what you've watched going back, but the fandom was practically begging that he become champion. A fair argument can be made that at the peak of his popularity that he ranks in the top 5 all time. And you're comparing him to Naomi.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> I was around , I was not 24/7 in wrestling threads since I stopped watching WWE for awhile but on the rare occasions I checked WF out I've seen much more people were shitting on them (except Ember Moon who's fairly popular around here).
> 
> Anyway It's not like all those "darlings" you named could only be counted on one hand :maury


You say that last line as if there were dozens upon dozens of black women that have wrestled for the WWE... seriously, how many more can you list? Cameron, that tough enough turned dominatrix.... it isn't exactly easy to list off a lot more names that make that last line in any way damning.


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Warrior was a passable wrestler to good WORKER... he isn't one of the greats, but he isn't one of the worst.
> 
> And I have compared Naomi now to back then and to the few development clips I've seen.... she hasn't improved once. She still misses simple lariats, elbows, and kicks. She still botches her finishes. Also, Alexa did not screw up the finish. If your finish is aerial, it is up to you to make sure the opponent is in position. Alexa made sure Naomi was in position and, o look, landed square on Naomi's knees. Naomi just threw Alexa around then threw herself around without bothering to ensure Alexa was in the proper position. At some point, I think Naomi's opponents need to stop trying to save her ass and let her completely miss and look like the idiot she is in the ring.
> 
> Alexa is fucking luckily she wasn't severely injured. ANd this isn't the first opponent to be lucky not to have been injured by the shitty ass botch machine.


''She still misses lariats, etc...'' John Cena misses Five Knuckle Shuffle everytime fucking time and he's 16 time world champion, why is the big deal to you when Naomi does it?
And I can't even take you serious now. Calling Ultimate Warrior ''passable wrestler to good worker'' So few good matches/feuds with elite superstars makes him good?
He had terrible looking punches and sloppy headbutt, he would get eaten alive today


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

RealLegend Killer said:


> ''She still misses lariats, etc...'' John Cena misses Five Knuckle Shuffle everytime fucking time and he's 16 time world champion, why is the big deal to you when Naomi does it?
> And I can't even take you serious now. Calling Ultimate Warrior ''passable wrestler to good worker'' So few good matches/feuds with elite superstars makes him good?
> He had terrible looking punches and sloppy headbutt, he would get eaten alive today


Beats me


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Genetically Superior said:


> Yes, classics. If you read around here in the classic section you'll see that there are a few here, myself included, that call Warrior vs Savage their fav WM match and it's pretty much basic common knowledge that Warrrior vs Hogan is considered one of the most important matches in wrestling history. You can sit the fuck down down with that "he got carried" shit as a way to completely dismiss his contributions altogether. He was a guy that might now have been as highly regarded in ring as some of his opponents but he carried his weight when it was time to do so. His promo work is an acquired taste. I get that not everyone will praise him for it. I loved his promos. Added a great deal to his character and his natural charisma is off the charts.
> 
> And you're comparing him to Naomi. Warriors got more reaction from crowds for running to the ring than Naomi has gotten her whole career. I have a feeling you weren't around to actually watch Warrior and are just going on what you've watched going back, but the fandom was practically begging that he become champion. A fair argument can be made that at the peak of his popularity that he ranks in the top 5 all time. And you're comparing him to Naomi.


It was classic but he was carried like in every fucking match, that's my point.
Yes he was over but those were different times, he would get eaten alive today because he is one of the worst main eventers in WWE history, Roman Reigns is Bret Hart compared to him.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RealLegend Killer said:


> ''She still misses lariats, etc...'' John Cena misses Five Knuckle Shuffle everytime fucking time and he's 16 time world champion, why is the big deal to you when Naomi does it?
> And I can't even take you serious now. Calling Ultimate Warrior ''passable wrestler to good worker'' So few good matches/feuds with elite superstars makes him good?
> He had terrible looking punches and sloppy headbutt, he would get eaten alive today


Cena shouldn't be a 16 time champ... so not a good argument there. 

And Warrior was a passable wrestler. He showed up huge in some big matches, despite your weird attempts to dismiss his contributions in those matches. And he is a good worker... you know what worker is right? The ability to take your moveset, take your character, and channel it into the promos and matches and drag the crowd into what you are doing. There is no debate on this... the Warrior was a good worker. He was arguably bigger than Hogan AT HIS PEAK. You don't do that by being a shit worker. 

Get back to me when Naomi actually comes up with a character, let alone channeling it into her work. Get back to me when Naomi even has a passable match, let alone a good one. Get back to me when Naomi can actually give a promo without sounding like she's reading a cue card. The fact you are trying to compare Naomi to Warrior is just laughable. If you want to argue about an undeserving champ that compares to Naomi.... Khali. Just as shit on the mic and in the ring as Naomi. That is what we call an actual reasonable comparison.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> Cena shouldn't be a 16 time champ... so not a good argument there.
> 
> And Warrior was a passable wrestler. He showed up huge in some big matches, despite your weird attempts to dismiss his contributions in those matches. And he is a good worker... you know what worker is right? The ability to take your moveset, take your character, and channel it into the promos and matches and drag the crowd into what you are doing. There is no debate on this... the Warrior was a good worker. He was arguably bigger than Hogan AT HIS PEAK. You don't do that by being a shit worker.
> 
> Get back to me when Naomi actually comes up with a character, let alone channeling it into her work. Get back to me when Naomi even has a passable match, let alone a good one. Get back to me when Naomi can actually give a promo without sounding like she's reading a cue card. The fact you are trying to compare Naomi to Warrior is just laughable. If you want to argue about an undeserving champ that compares to Naomi.... Khali. Just as shit on the mic and in the ring as Naomi. That is what we call an actual reasonable comparison.


Did Naomi steal your meal or something ? They are absolutely nothing alike :maury


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> Did Naomi steal your meal or something ? They are absolutely nothing alike :maury


Khali never had a good match. Naomi never had a good match. Khali couldn't give a good promo (in fairness, not his natural language). Naomi can't give a good promo. Khali should have never been champion. Naomi should have never been champion. 

Pretty damn good comparison. Though Naomi can walk to the ring relatively safely... it's only once she is in the ring she becomes the accident in motion.


----------



## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

I'm black & I'm not really a fan, don't matter what colour she is tbh


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> Khali never had a good match. Naomi never had a good match. Khali couldn't give a good promo (in fairness, not his natural language). Naomi can't give a good promo. Khali should have never been champion. Naomi should have never been champion.
> 
> Pretty damn good comparison. Though Naomi can walk to the ring relatively safely... it's only once she is in the ring she becomes the accident in motion.


Naomi has some exciting spots , while Khali has...height.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> Naomi has some exciting spots , while Khali has...height.


And? Even if she didn't botch most of those "exciting spots", exciting spots do not mean anything. Sin Cara had some "exciting spots" but his matches were laughably bad as well.


----------



## HiddenFlaw (Jan 29, 2014)

because shes not alexa bliss


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Cena shouldn't be a 16 time champ... so not a good argument there.
> 
> And Warrior was a passable wrestler. He showed up huge in some big matches, despite your weird attempts to dismiss his contributions in those matches. And he is a good worker... you know what worker is right? The ability to take your moveset, take your character, and channel it into the promos and matches and drag the crowd into what you are doing. There is no debate on this... the Warrior was a good worker. He was arguably bigger than Hogan AT HIS PEAK. You don't do that by being a shit worker.
> 
> Get back to me when Naomi actually comes up with a character, let alone channeling it into her work. Get back to me when Naomi even has a passable match, let alone a good one. Get back to me when Naomi can actually give a promo without sounding like she's reading a cue card. The fact you are trying to compare Naomi to Warrior is just laughable. If you want to argue about an undeserving champ that compares to Naomi.... Khali. Just as shit on the mic and in the ring as Naomi. That is what we call an actual reasonable comparison.


Lol why are you defending him that much? I think it's an insult to put Warrior in the same class as Hogan quite frankly, as a wrestler, a draw, charisma, a promo, or anything. After all, it was Hogan who carried Warrior's ass to his best match ever. He certainly made him look like a million dollars.
He never hit the heights that were expected of him or reached by Hogan because he just wasn't good.
But my biggest problem with him is that he was one of the biggest assholes in wrestling and in the real life
Jim Hellwig is a documented piece of shit, racist, hompohobic and no sympathy and no understanding for social-economic background.
Ultimate Warrior even said it was perfect that Bobby Heenan got cancer... And still you keep defending this guy

As for Naomi, ball is in her yard and we'll see what's she gonna do with it. She's not the best wrestler but maybe if they give her match against Becky/Mickie she could show you that she can have ''average'' match at best.


----------



## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



RealLegend Killer said:


> It was classic but he was carried like in every fucking match, that's my point.
> Yes he was over but those were different times, he would get eaten alive today because he is one of the worst main eventers in WWE history, Roman Reigns is Bret Hart compared to him.


Who cares if he'd get "eaten alive" today. Today's product is garbage compared to his era. He was on top during the second most popular era in history. He's still fondly remembered by those that were there. Look at threads that ask people to name their top ten favs all time. He's on quite a few of them. Rest assured that Naomi or Giant Gonzales is not since you someone that apparently needs the obvious to be stated to them. Now, answer me this..how many people from that era would actually make it today? Savage is the only I will say with certainty would be huge. You mentioned Bret, but there's a strong possibility that he'd just get the Cesaro treatment. Guys like Rude, Flair, and Henning would probably do pretty well, but Hogan wouldn't have a chance and let's erase him from wrestling history in our minds and look at what would be left since apparently wrestlers that wouldn't make it today are considered subpar to you.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> And? Even if she didn't botch most of those "exciting spots", *exciting spots do not mean anything*. Sin Cara had some "exciting spots" but his matches were laughably bad as well.


The keyword is "exciting". Mistico was indeed a botchmachine , Naomi rarely botches while there is tons of videos , hell compilations of vids of Mistico/Cara's botches. :maury


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> The keyword is "exciting". Mistico was indeed a botchmachine , Naomi rarely botches while there is tons of videos , hell compilations of vids of Mistico/Cara's botches. :maury


Every post you end up burying yourself deeper... rarely botches? She is notorious for her botches. Sunday was not a one off fluke... that is how bad she is all the time. She misses kicks, elbows, drops people, throws herself around wildly in almost every match she is in. Do you even watch her matches?


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



Genetically Superior said:


> Who cares if he'd get "eaten alive" today. Today's product is garbage compared to his era. He was on top during the second most popular era in history. He's still fondly remembered by those that were there. Look at threads that ask people to name their top ten favs all time. He's on quite a few of them. Rest assured that Naomi or Giant Gonzales is not since you someone that apparently needs the obvious to be stated to them. Now, answer me this..how many people from that era would actually make it today? Savage is the only I will say with certainty would be huge. You mentioned Bret, but there's a strong possibility that he'd just get the Cesaro treatment. Guys like Rude, Flair, and Henning would probably do pretty well, but Hogan wouldn't have a chance and let's erase him from wrestling history in our minds and look at what would be left since apparently wrestlers that wouldn't make it today are considered subpar to you.


The thing is, Warrior was bad wrestler even back in his era so...
I can name maybe 5-6 WWE/WCW wrestlers that are worse than him and that's it. But none of these guys were pushed like he was.
In the end, we can all be thankful for those steroids abuse allegations because it gave the guys like Bret and Shawn opportunity to shine on the main event scene and without them Vince would still push big jacked guys like Warrior and Luger who sucked in the ring


----------



## The Main Headliner (Mar 5, 2009)

Brodus Clay said:


> Shes boring, generic, botches a lot, *kinda ugly too*, no mic, probably got the title for a Total Divas angle shit.


Madness


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> Every post you end up burying yourself deeper... rarely botches? She is notorious for her botches. Sunday was not a one off fluke... that is how bad she is all the time. She misses kicks, elbows, drops people, throws herself around wildly in almost every match she is in. Do you even watch her matches?


You keep using the same argument over and over. 

Paige botches alot too and she's treated like the second coming of Jesus , from what I saw it seems like you look for every thread about her(Naomi) to express your hate , it feels very personal :maury


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm cool with it

There is nothing wrong with someone getting a loyalty run every now and then and freshens up the match ups

Bliss and Lynch also both have a very hardcore fanbase so they are going to freak out of course, remember when a Mickie James fan called in a bomb threat when she got fired?


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

ColeStar said:


> Just as common, if not more so, than people playing race cards to overlook minorities' flaws are people playing race cards to denigrate minority successes.
> 
> Accusations of tokenism and claims such as "he/she only got the award, won the title, was given X or Y because he/she is black" are ubiquitous and ignore any diligence or talent demonstrated by the individual concerned.
> 
> Saying it 'has nothing to do with racism' or 'no one cares that she's black' is clearly shown to be false when a great deal of the comments begin with complaints that her race was the only reason for the title win.


Everyone on the roster has a certain amount of talent, motivation, ethic ect in varying degrees, they wouldn't be there if they didn't.
At a certain point you have to recognize things as they are, this is the case here.
She was given a half assed push and title completely from out of nowhere for reasons other than pure talent, obviously. You can't exactly blame race when the results lead to something you don't like, then want everyone to ignore it when you like the results. 

You are probably on record here numerous times saying/implying "Why hasn't Naomi ever been champ ? Because shes black, thats why ! But its impossible for her to be given a title run because shes black due to PC considerations, thats gotta be due to pure talent and work ethic ?

Thats a hypocritical attitude if you ask me, and doesn't take reality into account. No one really deserves a title after being out of action for months and generally doing precisely nothing to earn it, then waltz in and 3 weeks later being handed the title when it just happens to be black history month and when WM just happens to be in her home town. What about Natty/Summer Rae ect, did they ever get a WM hometown title run ?
People see through it and call it for what it is, and of course thats "racist" to you too, hard to know what to say to someone with such fragile sensitivities.


----------



## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



RealLegend Killer said:


> The thing is, Warrior was bad wrestler even back in his era so...
> I can name maybe 5-6 WWE/WCW wrestlers that are worse than him and that's it. But none of these guys were pushed like he was.
> In the end, we can all be thankful for those steroids abuse allegations because it gave the guys like Bret and Shawn opportunity to shine on the main event scene and without them Vince would still push big jacked guys like Warrior and Luger who sucked in the ring


You just keep holding tightly for dear life onto that "he was a bad wrestler" shit. You've already been made to look ignorant as fuck here. No one here has tried to say he's a GOAT ring worker, but truly bad wrestlers aren't even trusted out there with 20+ minute matches. They are even capable of lasting out there that long due to conditioning. You're trying to put the man in the Khali and Gonzales territory and are just making yourself look ignorant in the process. Again, two of the most fondly remembered WM matches ever on his resume. You don't get that if you're that level bad. No one can carry you to that. Look at the difference between Goldberg and Warrior matches. Both were pushed to the moon, but Goldberg had to squash people to work within his limitations. He was still highly entertaining to watch for me and he was in the ring with same guys Warrior was. Warrior didn't have to be that limited. 

It's clear to me now that you obviously weren't alive during the 80's so there's no way you will be able to truly grasp how fun it was to be a wrestling fan in the days when Vince was pushing those big jacked up guys. Warrior and Hogan created more excitement for the business than the entire roster today could ever dream of doing. If you think that all there is to pro wrestling is the ability to go on the ring then I feel for you, but can understand why you don't find the classic 80's as enjoyable. 

Seriously. You compared Naomi to the Ultimate Warrior. That will be all the time I waste on your ignorance.


----------



## LaraCroft (Oct 12, 2016)

Sweggeh said:


> But Alexa Bliss is terrible too and you loved her title run.
> 
> Cant hate on one person for botches and bad matches and like another. Thats hypocritical.


FUCK YOU!!!!


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> You keep using the same argument over and over.
> 
> Paige botches alot too and she's treated like the second coming of Jesus , from what I saw it seems like you look for every thread about her(Naomi) to express your hate , it feels very personal :maury


And you keep trying to act like Naomi doesn't botch the most out of all the women and most of the men on the roster. Get back to me when Paige, Alexa, or any of the other women botch every match they are in and fuck up major finishes to major matches routinely. O right, only one does that and you are white knighting her for some ungodly reason.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> And you keep trying to act like Naomi doesn't botch the most out of all the women and most of the men on the roster. Get back to me when Paige, Alexa, or any of the other women botch every match they are in and fuck up major finishes to major matches routinely. O right, only one does that and you are white knighting her for some ungodly reason.


I get that Naomi needs more work but Bliss shouldn't even have beaten Becky for the title to begin with , Banks should've been in that spot IMO

Btw why do you have to call me a"white knight" , it's not like you were the one stalking her threads to bash her , Kappa


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Mahmenn said:


> I get that Naomi needs more work but Bliss shouldn't even beat Becky for the title to begin with.
> 
> Why do you have to involve "sleeping" in this discussion , it's not like you were the one stalking her threads to bash her , Kappa



There's three threads that are either about her or the title picture. That isn't stalking. I could make dozens of threads and go to her appreciation thread to knock her too if you'd like me to be a real stalker.

EDIT: Sasha? She's on fucking Raw... o right, you are one of those marks that just want the women divisions to simply be the cycle of Sasha/Charlotte in "history making" borefests? No thanks.


----------



## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

Naomi shouldn't have won the championship. But neither did Alexa.


----------



## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

Because her title win wasn't earned. Good for her if you want being a hard worker to mean she can get gifts, but it won't help her or the womens title.

Naomi isn't popular, she doesn't increase ratings, sell merch, or draw interest to the brand. She's just there. If she at least did one of those things it wouldn't be bad, but nobody cares. When she gets in the ring it's your standard Diva quality match. I've watched many matches from Womens Wrestlers from all over the world who work just as good as the guys. The 4 Horsewomen are right up there with a lot of those women, as are some of the talent they have in NXT. Naomi isn't on their level, nor are most of the women on either roster. She has the skills from a now thankfully dead era where women Wrestled for 5 minutes and got one spot on TV a week.

I'm sorry, but this is how the game is played. Your champ needs to be either super over or a great worker, hopefully both. Naomi is neither of those.

She'll lose it and find herself back where she was. If anything she probably got the title just because the SD womens division lacks depth and they wanted to give Becky a break.


----------



## Mahmenn (Nov 21, 2016)

Kabraxal said:


> There's three threads that are either about her or the title picture. That isn't stalking. I could make dozens of threads and go to her appreciation thread to knock her too if you'd like me to be a real stalker.
> 
> EDIT: Sasha? She's on fucking Raw... o right, you are one of those marks that just want the women divisions to simply be the cycle of Sasha/Charlotte in "history making" borefests? No thanks.


What does this even have to do with Charlotte , you're trying too hard dude , as much as I enjoy their work I couldn't care less about that part :maury

Alexa Bliss can talk the talk but isn't ready for the title yet while Banks is . The "She's on Raw" is irrelevant, of course she is my point is that instead of having this never ending Sasha/Charlotte program" they should've put one of the top female talent on SD to feud with Becky


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



Genetically Superior said:


> You just keep holding tightly for dear life onto that "he was a bad wrestler" shit. You've already been made to look ignorant as fuck here. No one here has tried to say he's a GOAT ring worker, but truly bad wrestlers aren't even trusted out there with 20+ minute matches. They are even capable of lasting out there that long due to conditioning. You're trying to put the man in the Khali and Gonzales territory and are just making yourself look ignorant in the process. Again, two of the most fondly remembered WM matches ever on his resume. You don't get that if you're that level bad. No one can carry you to that. Look at the difference between Goldberg and Warrior matches. Both were pushed to the moon, but Goldberg had to squash people to work within his limitations. He was still highly entertaining to watch for me and he was in the ring with same guys Warrior was. Warrior didn't have to be that limited.
> 
> It's clear to me now that you obviously weren't alive during the 80's so there's no way you will be able to truly grasp how fun it was to be a wrestling fan in the days when Vince was pushing those big jacked up guys. Warrior and Hogan created more excitement for the business than the entire roster today could ever dream of doing. If you think that all there is to pro wrestling is the ability to go on the ring then I feel for you, but can understand why you don't find the classic 80's as enjoyable.
> 
> Seriously. You compared Naomi to the Ultimate Warrior. That will be all the time I waste on your ignorance.


Umm where did I compare Naomi to Warrior? The guy was hating on every Naomi thread in the past couple of days and called her terrible wrestler while at the same time he is probably biggest Ultimate Warrior fan on this forum.
That is pure hypocrisy because Warrior was horrible in the ring and there were numerous threads/polls on the subject ''Is the Warrior the worst wrestler in WWE history'' so I'm not the only one here that thinks Warrior was bad wrestler.
He defends Warrior because of nostalgia and I get it but calling him good wrestler is delusional. He may be charismatic and over the top character but he wasn't good in the ring.

I've never compared Naomi to Warrior in my previous posts, I just wanna ask the guy simple question-If the Ultimate Warrior who was bad in ring could be holder of the most prestigious title in WWE for almost a year, why can't Naomi who is ''terrible'' wrestler be WWE SD Womens champion(title that's not prestigious whatsoever and that nobody cares about) for a month or two? Why is that such a big deal to him and why does he have to hate on every thread?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



RealLegend Killer said:


> Umm where did I compare Naomi to Warrior? The guy was hating on every Naomi thread in the past couple of days and called her terrible wrestler while at the same time he is probably biggest Ultimate Warrior fan on this forum.
> That is pure hypocrisy because Warrior was horrible in the ring and there were numerous threads/polls on the subject ''Is the Warrior the worst wrestler in WWE history'' so I'm not the only one here that thinks Warrior was bad wrestler.
> He defends Warrior because of nostalgia and I get it but calling him good wrestler is delusional. He may be charismatic and over the top character but he wasn't good in the ring.
> 
> I've never compared Naomi to Warrior in my previous posts, I just wanna ask the guy simple question-If the Ultimate Warrior who was bad in ring could be holder of the most prestigious title in WWE for almost a year, why can't Naomi who is ''terrible'' wrestler be WWE SD Womens champion(title that's not prestigious whatsoever and that nobody cares about) for a month or two? Why is that such a big deal to him and why does he have to hate on every thread?


It's been explained and you just ignore it. 

Warrior was PASSABLE as a wrestler and an actually good WORKER. And he has a list of matches you can point to that were good to outright classics that are often mentioned in the GOAT match discussions you will see. 

Naomi is a terrible wrestler and an equally terrible worker. She has no character, she doesn't channel anything into her wrestling to bolster a character, and what she does in the ring is constantly botched to the point she injured herself. Add that the fact she doesn't even have a single passable or average match, let alone good, also puts her far behind the Warrior. 

You keep screaming "BUT BUT WARRIOR!" when it has been explained multiple times why Warrior had a title run and why he is different from the talentless Naomi. You just don't like that the facts don't help your white knighting cause.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

Warrior was absolute trash, lets be real. He lucked into the right gimmick at the right time and ran with it.

He sucked in every way, I think it was Cornette who said he was the worst wrestler to be featured in a prominent role in history. He was and is much more of a disgrace to his position in wrestling history than Naomi will ever be.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Sweggeh said:


> Warrior was absolute trash, lets be real. He lucked into the right gimmick at the right time and ran with it.
> 
> He sucked in every way, I think it was Cornette who said he was the worst wrestler to be featured in a prominent role in history. He was and is much more of a disgrace to his position in wrestling history than Naomi will ever be.


Then Cornette missed The Great Khali...

And again you guys trying to use the Warrior to save Naomi ignore the character work and the classic matches. Can you people actually come up with any reasons or it is just going to be the same tired posts that don't actually defend this woman?


----------



## RealLegend Killer (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



Kabraxal said:


> It's been explained and you just ignore it.
> 
> Warrior was PASSABLE as a wrestler and an actually good WORKER. And he has a list of matches you can point to that were good to outright classics that are often mentioned in the GOAT match discussions you will see.
> 
> ...


How can she have ''good'' matches when she was getting 2-3 minutes in the random tag team matches during the last 2-3 years, give her chance before you judge her.
And I don't think that you know what the word ''terrible'' means, you are overreacting because you're such a hater


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: Why the weird backlash over Naomi's title win*



RealLegend Killer said:


> How can she have ''good'' matches when she was getting 2-3 minutes in the random tag team matches during the last 2-3 years, give her chance before you judge her.
> And I don't think that you know what the word ''terrible'' means, you are overreacting because you're such a hater


She has had multiple opportunities in one on one matches and triple threats and they still sucked. For Christ sake, AJ Lee and Kaitlynn suffered in the same system and still managed to pull out one great match and a few smaller decent matches despite most of their matches being short or random tags. Even underused talents like Summer and Emma have pulled out either a great match or decent match on NXT or Superstars/Main Event. 

The truly good talent will manage to showcase that talent. Naomi has never shined and never looked anything but terrible unless you limit her to 30 seconds and pray she doesn't fuck up a move. 

I expect a wrestler to be passable in the ring, have a decent character, and be able to give a promo. SO yeah, I'll own the label "hater" since Naomi is shit in the ring, shit on the mic, and has no fucking character. She is a waste of TV time that would be better served by giving to one of the women from Raw we never get to see on that show. They can at least deliver.


----------



## Mugging of Cena (Jul 29, 2014)

Eh. I think Mickie James should be champ going into Mania and then have Naomi win the belt off of her. That would have been more exciting by far.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Mahmenn said:


> AmWolves10 said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of people hate on the white wrestlers too. And lots of fans like Sasha Banks. So don't start that race shit
> ...


every wrestler has haters. plenty of people say bad things about the wrestlers you mentioned. it's the Internet


----------



## Reign Supreme (Dec 14, 2016)

Say what you want about Alexa but she is 4 years younger, has much less experience, and she is already better in the ring and tenfold better on the mic.


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

It was just weirdly done. She went from being off TV for a few months to Women's Champ in a matter of what? Two weeks? It just came off as "she's been here for a while and WM will be in her home town, so let's throw her a bone." 

That said, I don't really care enough about it to get outraged. It was just...weird. Good for her though. She's obviously put in a lot of work and I'm sure it will be a great moment for her walking into WM as Champ in front of her friends and family.


----------



## HOJO (Feb 25, 2012)

Why are we all playing retarded in here?

the backlash isn't "weird" unless you're really that deep in fanboyism that an opposing opinion is someone black magic in the works. She sucks, and besides being a giant rave party, has shown literally no improvements from when they tried to push her post WM31 to right now, the point where she randomly becomes champion. She fucking botched her own finish that was suppose to win the title. It's not hard to understand why people dont like a bland, sloppy, hit a bunch of spots worker winning a title. I'm not outraged about it, I don't care. But it's not rocket science.

How is this hard to understand at all? Yeah yeah, Alexa sucks too, not the point


----------



## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Lothario said:


> It's not about who is more attractive when it pertains to colorism. In any case, if what is said doesn't apply to your thought process, you shouldn't be concerned with defending your stance.


What is "colorism"?


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Kink_Brawn said:


> Well, I think it was obvious that they gave her the title as "here you go, Wrestlemania will be in your hometown and we don't have any black champions during black history month" So, it feels kind of cheap, and it's also solidified by the fact that she botched the finish of the match with a move she does all the time.


Guess Jason Jordan does not count in their eyes


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

The Nuke said:


> Because her title win wasn't earned. Good for her if you want being a hard worker to mean she can get gifts, but it won't help her or the womens title.
> 
> Naomi isn't popular, she doesn't increase ratings, sell merch, or draw interest to the brand. She's just there. If she at least did one of those things it wouldn't be bad, but nobody cares. When she gets in the ring it's your standard Diva quality match. I've watched many matches from Womens Wrestlers from all over the world who work just as good as the guys. The 4 Horsewomen are right up there with a lot of those women, as are some of the talent they have in NXT. Naomi isn't on their level, nor are most of the women on either roster. She has the skills from a now thankfully dead era where women Wrestled for 5 minutes and got one spot on TV a week.
> 
> ...


Alexa and Carmella sell more than her


----------



## Paigeology (Feb 23, 2014)

bonkertons said:


> It was just weirdly done. She went from being off TV for a few months to Women's Champ in a matter of what? Two weeks? It just came off as "she's been here for a while and WM will be in her home town, so let's throw her a bone."



This. it just screams " oh WM is in Naomi's hometown? best give her the title then".


----------



## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

scshaastin said:


> What is "colorism"?


In the time it took you to type this response, you could have answered your own question via Google, but I suppose that's out of the question when your intent isn't to actually learn something but to passively aggressively bicker.


col·or·ism
ˈkələrˌizəm/
nounUS
prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group.


It's the difference between the house ***** and the field *****. Y'kno...the system that has been around for millenia and is the heart of nearly every caste system that has ever existed. 



> From the colonial period, when the Spanish imposed control, many wealthy persons and high government officials were of peninsular (Iberian) and/or European background, while African or indigenous ancestry, or dark skin, generally was correlated with inferiority and poverty. The "whiter" the heritage a person could claim, the higher in status they could claim; conversely, darker features meant less opportunity.



Light = passable & higher social status.
Dark = lesser and lower social status.



It's not a foreign topic to anyone whom has ever stayed awake through a single history leson in grade 7.


----------



## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Lothario said:


> In the time it took you to type this response, you could have answered your own question via Google, but I suppose that's out of the question when your intent isn't to actually learn something but to passively aggressively bicker.
> 
> 
> col·or·ism
> ...


 So why did you bring up ancient history in the first place?


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)




----------



## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

scshaastin said:


> So why did you bring up ancient history in the first place?



What the fuck are you even babbling about? I didnt mention Nat Turners slave rebellion of 1831, I mentioned colorism which exists *today* and plays a role in how melenated people are categorized and treated. You're not stupid, you simply want to dig for an argument because you're still sour over what you read over 24 hours ago. At least have a set of balls and come out of the gate swinging instead of being a passive aggressive kitten and pussyfooting around it.


----------



## RVP_The_Gunner (Mar 19, 2012)

If i was choosing i would have kept the title on Bliss but even she's not as faultless as people make her out to be on here. The thing i don't get is randomly putting the title on someone with no build just because they are going to be wrestling in their home town/state at some point down the line, people should earn he right but at least on SD most people do actually get a fair crack of the whip.


----------



## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Lothario said:


> What the fuck are you even babbling about? I didnt mention Nat Turners slave rebellion of 1831, I mentioned colorism which exists *today* and plays a role in how melenated people are categorized and treated. You're not stupid, you simply want to dig for an argument because you're still sour over what you read over 24 hours ago. At least have a set of balls and come out of the gate swinging instead of being a passive aggressive kitten and pussyfooting around it.


Are you SJW?


----------



## Afff (Sep 2, 2016)

RVP_The_Gunner said:


> If i was choosing i would have kept the title on Bliss but even she's not as faultless as people make her out to be on here. The thing i don't get is randomly putting the title on someone with no build just because they are going to be wrestling in their home town/state at some point down the line, people should earn he right but at least on SD most people do actually get a fair crack of the whip.


Alexa won the title while saying before "I was born to be champion, you're a loser", while not even winning a title in NXT. That makes no sense from a storyline perspective.

Then she wins in it in what, her 2nd match against Becky? Alexa's win had a pretty shit story, if you can even call it that.

Point is, neither of them should be champion. Should've been between Nikki and Becky at Mania.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

I dont mind at all, couldnt give a shit about workrate in womens wrestling and shes always come across as a nice, humble chick. Would would much rather she had won the Raw womens title though because the Raw womens scene is far more insufferable and in need of a change of direction than SDs.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

scshaastin said:


> Are you SJW?


Dont tell me you are one of those racist mofos who thinks everyone in society being treated equally regardless of race is a bad thing? :surprise:


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

Ugh this thread. 

The only reason I can understand for a backlash is because it came out of nowhere with no real build. 

The idea that she's this awful wrestler who hasn't 'earned' it is lolworthy. She's a solid hand in the ring and has more than paid her due over the years. She's not 4HW calibre but not everyone can be (I love Bliss and even she's not much better than Naomi in the ring)

It's even more hilarous when I see people lauding over Bray Wyatts title win and claiming how much he deserves it despite the fact that he's been rattling over similar style promos for years and to date I can only think of two good matches in his career (Cena at WM and Bryan at the Rumble).

Not to mention his whole title reign is essentially just in place to get Orton over so it's not even a thank you reign :lol

Naomi as champ for a few months is fine and can freshen things up a little.


----------



## Kink_Brawn (Mar 4, 2015)

nyelator said:


> Guess Jason Jordan does not count in their eyes


As what?? A champion?? He is the co holder of a title with a white dude who is arguably the better of the team....so, probably not.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Its funny how this race shit comes up whenever there is a black wrestler who gets called out for sucking. Has nothing to do with race and there are plenty of popular black wrestlers like The Rock, Booker T, Shelton Benjamin, Sasha Banks, Jason Jordan, etc, etc, etc Plus its not like everyone hates Naomi, lots of people chanted you deserve it for her when she won. Plenty of white wrestlers get hated on too. Enough of this bullshit race crap, its totally fictional and fabricated at least as it comes to professional wrestling.


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Kink_Brawn said:


> As what?? A champion?? He is the co holder of a title with a white dude who is arguably the better of the team....so, probably not.


Think they are both overrated honestly was just making a point to WWE not you.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

LowRida said:


> You are probably on record here numerous times saying/implying "Why hasn't Naomi ever been champ ? Because shes black, thats why ! But its impossible for her to be given a title run because shes black due to PC considerations, thats gotta be due to pure talent and work ethic ?


Actually, no, I've never said any such thing about Naomi. Not even once. You've also got no good reason whatsover to assume I would have said such a thing.



LowRida said:


> People see through it and call it for what it is, and of course thats "racist" to you too, hard to know what to say to someone with such fragile sensitivities.


How precisely have you deduced that I am fragile? Because I dared to point out the fact - not an opinion - that many on here immediately pointed to Naomi's race as the sole or primary factor for her title win?

Utterly ludicrous.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

AmWolves10 said:


> Its funny how this race shit comes up whenever there is a black wrestler who gets called out for sucking. Has nothing to do with race and there are plenty of popular black wrestlers like The Rock, Booker T, Shelton Benjamin, Sasha Banks, Jason Jordan, etc, etc, etc Plus its not like everyone hates Naomi, lots of people chanted you deserve it for her when she won. Plenty of white wrestlers get hated on too. Enough of this bullshit race crap, its totally fictional and fabricated at least as it comes to professional wrestling.


You can't speak for everyone. 

Of course, not everyone - or even necessarily most - people who dislike Naomi feel that way because of her race. That's a ridiculous claim and not one being made by anyone sensible.

But likewise, it's silly to claim that dislike of her has 'nothing to do with her race' and race is not a factor at all for anyone. Even in this very thread people have made statements that debunk that assertion.

As for claiming that race isn't a factor in professional wrestling, that's naive to say the very least. Again, I'm not saying it's a factor in everything or occurs at every turn, but it absolutely will play a role in some situations and with some people. I don't even see how this is a controversial statement - there are many people of all ethnicities and of varied political beliefs who work or have worked in wrestling and have clearly documented this fact.

This isn't even to say that wrestling is more racist than any other industry - I've never worked in it and would have no way to ascertain the veracity of such a claim. But there are indubitably prejudiced people in our society and so wrestling, like any other field, will be affected at times.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Because a lot of people like Alexa Bliss too much.

- Vic


----------



## Jurassic Bucks CM (Feb 10, 2017)

There are two things I can think of for this.

1. Obviously the previously stated "no build up."

2. And this is what I think personally. They are starting to treat this like the Raw Women's championship where they just pass it off after a short while. Once a superstar wins it they lose it at the following PPV event. They are playing hot potato with the title. Becky Lynch won at Backlash. She was suppose to defend the title at No Mercy against Alexa Bliss. Injury happened so they pushed it back to the next Smackdown Live PPV, TLC, where Alexa won. Now Naomi has won at the following Smackdown Live PPV, Elimination Chamber. Maybe they want all of the female superstars on smackdown to have at least one reign (which is a horrible idea). Just my train of thought.


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Vic Capri said:


> Because a lot of people like Alexa Bliss too much.
> 
> - Vic


Excuse her for getting over with people on here.


----------



## Jurassic Bucks CM (Feb 10, 2017)

Oh I forgot, she is from Sanford, Florida, which is 30 mins from Orlando. Wrestlemania 33 is in Orlando . . . you're all smart enough. It's the it's her hometown (but not really) reason.


----------



## ThEmB0neZ (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't think Naomi deserves it right now. That's the problem I have. She was injured for 2 months and just comes back and gets a title shot and wins it with 3 weeks of build. If she had at least a couple of months of build then fine, but now it just looks like they just put the title on her because her "hometown" is at Mania this year. Which is a stupid reason. If they take the belt off her at Maina(likely) or after quick how does that help the division? Especially doesn't help Naomi. Just makes the belt look like a useless prop when they just give the title away for dumb reasons and not because they truly earned it. 

I don't care how long she's been with the company. I care what she's doing right now and that's what matters. In just 3 weeks that's a hard sell for me to believe anyone's championship worthy or deserves it.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

ColeStar said:


> Actually, no, I've never said any such thing about Naomi. Not even once. You've also got no good reason whatsover to assume I would have said such a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is also a fact - not an opinion - that she was gifted a title run from completely out of nowhere due to it being FEB and WM coming up in her home town.
And people who deny this are fragile and shy away from the truth.

Tell me this - Why do you think she was given a title run from completely out of nowhere ? No runup, no feud, no story line, nothing. Just comes back from a months long injury, then waltzes in and handed 3 clean wins over Bliss.
[tipoff for me for the WM part at least was the announcers for 3 weeks straight, up to and including the Raw title match, kept repeating that WM is in her home down, and how nice it would be if she walked in Orlando as champ]
They just don't drop those little hints for nothing, they obviously knew the script well in advance and were told to prep the audience with these not so subtle hints.

As far as the black history month part, its pretty obvious but of course no way to actually prove it short of an admission from Vince. Wouldn't be the 1st FEB title gifted to a black performer, won't be the last. I trust you do notice their incessant black segments during FEB - Alls you really need to do is put 2+2 together.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

LowRida said:


> Is also a fact - not an opinion - that she was gifted a title run from completely out of nowhere due to it being FEB and WM coming up in her home town.
> And people who deny this are fragile and shy away from the truth.
> 
> Tell me this - Why do you think she was given a title run from completely out of nowhere ? No runup, no feud, no story line, nothing. Just comes back from a months long injury, then waltzes in and handed 3 clean wins over Bliss.
> ...


You seem unable to discern the definition of the words 'fact' and 'fragile'.

It being Black History Month may well have played into the decision. It would be silly of me to insist otherwise because I was not party to the decision-making process. 

Likewise, neither were you involved in the process nor do you have first-hand knowledge of what occurred, so you cannot speak accurately about the facts of what took place. Of course you can have suspicions and beliefs, even be very sure of what you think happened. But you can't call them facts, because a belief or suspicion - no matter how strong or well-founded - is not the same as a fact.

Also, someone disbelieving your version of events or disagreeing with your opinion does not equate to them being fragile. The two have absolutely no correlation.

To return to the issue of Naomi's title win and the reasons behind it, for your sake, again I will concede that Black History Month may well have been a factor. However, consider this. As you pointed out, she won the title with little build or story behind it. But this is far from the first time such a thing has ever occurred. Multiple wrestlers and teams from numerous promotions have won championships in similar circumstances before. Do we in all circumstances assume that race must've been the sole or primary motivator behind their wins? Of course not.

Once again, I'm not saying that Black History Month had no bearing on events, but I would encourage you and everyone else to consider all possible influences and factors rather than simply grab eagerly at the low hanging fruit.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

I don't have a problem with her or anything. 

I just hate the booking of a rushed push to get a title on a babyface. I would have preferred the heel champ to have a longer run and if Naomi is going to beat her, I would have liked to have her get built up for a longer period of time instead of being a non-factor for months.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

ColeStar said:


> You seem unable to discern the definition of the words 'fact' and 'fragile'.
> 
> It being Black History Month may well have played into the decision. It would be silly of me to insist otherwise because I was not party to the decision-making process.
> 
> ...



Possible there was, but I doubt if there was a conference where all the WWE honchos got together and said "Hey, you know black history month is coming up, maybe we should toss a bone to minorities and enhance our ad nauseum multi weekly promotions and give a short title run to a black star !" These people know each other well enough, more than likely the script came from the top on short notice, and was implemented without anyone having to get into the reasons behind it, which they already knew with a wink of an eye.

As far as "numerous promotions have won championships in similar circumstances before", care to name some examples ?
You might point to the swaps of Charlotte/Banks, but the swaps themselves developed into a build and angle, and there weren't many if any people saying neither one deserved it or came from out of nowhere. When you have a whole series of champ vs #1 challenger title matches, someone has got to win and its not always going to be the champ.
Cena has had some short reigns lately in the build to make him all time champ, but his at least are plot heavy and designed to put a younger talent over. Outside of that, most title reigns have been relatively stable.

Was probably the ideal time to make such a move though, now or never really. With the brand split and creation of 2 titles, that eases the heat they would have got if she was gifted a unified title over all divas instead of less than half.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

LowRida said:


> As far as "numerous promotions have won championships in similar circumstances before", care to name some examples ?


Poor typo on my part, I meant to type 'performers' rather than 'promotions'. Thank you for not making a big deal out of that.

As for the examples, I was hoping we could take it as a given that we accept as wrestling fans that once in a while titles get put on someone or some team seemingly out of nowhere with no build. I'm sure with long enough and sufficient input several examples could be given, though of course individual circumstances would differ and the exact situation is never going to be replicated in its entirety.

From the top of my head the one that comes to mind is Sheamus' first WWE title win, which came over John Cena in a Tables Match. He'd been called up from ECW only recently, he had minimal heat and was placed into a world title match at a time when the fans remained largely indifferent to him. He then won the match, which wasn't in the PPV main event, to everyone's shock. People were so surprised at the lack of build to the title change that I recall as I followed the PPV thread on this forum, loads of people genuinely thought it was either an accidental finish with Cena falling through the table by mistake, or that Cena would come back for a rematch later in the show and win it straight back.

As it turned out neither scenario was true and the case was simply that Vince had given the title to Sheamus at a time that he was still so cold and almost everyone expected it would be a routine Cena win over the latest 'monster of the week' to be fed to him.


----------



## MillionDollarProns (Feb 10, 2011)

#NotMyChampion


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

ColeStar said:


> Poor typo on my part, I meant to type 'performers' rather than 'promotions'. Thank you for not making a big deal out of that.
> 
> As for the examples, I was hoping we could take it as a given that we accept as wrestling fans that once in a while titles get put on someone or some team seemingly out of nowhere with no build. I'm sure with long enough and sufficient input several examples could be given, though of course individual circumstances would differ and the exact situation is never going to be replicated in its entirety.
> 
> ...


True, no need to even debate the point that weird title runs out of the blue are not unprecedented or rare.

In the case of Sheamus though, it was used to try to establish an emerging star, so at least it had a valid objective - And we needn't go very far comparing Sheamus with Naomi, I hope you agree. Sheamus was an is close with HHH, he is a great performer and legit tough guy. May be in a charisma/gimmick vacuum but that doesn't take away from his proven performance. 

You seem Ok, I'm sorry if I'm a jerk sometimes. I have a major pet peeve against entitlements, and rightly or wrong, that is the way I perceive this whole thing. Is a precedent now established that a home town performer is always going to be a champ at WM ,,, Or is that just for certain people at a certain time of year ?


----------



## N3LL14 (Aug 24, 2015)

Brodus Clay said:


> Shes boring, generic, botches a lot, kinda ugly too, no mic, probably got the title for a Total Divas angle shit.



Say what you want about her but she's far from ugly smh.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

LowRida said:


> Is also a fact - not an opinion - that she was gifted a title run from completely out of nowhere due to it being FEB and WM coming up in her home town.
> And people who deny this are fragile and shy away from the truth.
> 
> Tell me this - Why do you think she was given a title run from completely out of nowhere ? No runup, no feud, no story line, nothing. Just comes back from a months long injury, then waltzes in and handed 3 clean wins over Bliss.
> ...


How do you know that a Naomi Title win wasn't always on the cards? An injury doesn't necessarily mean all plans are off, it could have just hurt her momentum going into her win so they had to book her strong. Dismissing it as just black history month is ridiculous, Naomi has worked hard and been overlooked for most of her career.



ThEmB0neZ said:


> I don't think Naomi deserves it right now. That's the problem I have. She was injured for 2 months and just comes back and gets a title shot and wins it with 3 weeks of build. If she had at least a couple of months of build then fine, but now it just looks like they just put the title on her because her "hometown" is at Mania this year. Which is a stupid reason. If they take the belt off her at Maina(likely) or after quick how does that help the division? Especially doesn't help Naomi. Just makes the belt look like a useless prop when they just give the title away for dumb reasons and not because they truly earned it.
> 
> I don't care how long she's been with the company. I care what she's doing right now and that's what matters. In just 3 weeks that's a hard sell for me to believe anyone's championship worthy or deserves it.


How did Beckys run as Champ help the division? Or Alexas? I get that you borderline hate Naomi and are big fans of the previous Champs so your view point is a little skewed. But Becky had a shit Title run, Alexa had a shit Title run, so if Naomi does have a shit Title run how's it any worse?


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> How do you know that a Naomi Title win wasn't always on the cards? An injury doesn't necessarily mean all plans are off, it could have just her momentum going into her win so they had to book her strong. Dismissing it as just black history month is ridiculous, Naomi has worked hard and been overlooked for most of her career.


um, what "momentum" are you referring to ?
The biggest momentum she ever had was shaking her rump for Brodus Clay for a few months. 
I never said it was all bhm, hometown thing was obviously a factor too, 2 birds with 1 stone kind of thing.

Really very obvious, but sure, lets randomly reward all of the hard working, overlooked performers with straight from out of the blue token title reigns - Just because ,,, They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap] They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap]


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

LowRida said:


> um, what "momentum" are you referring to ?
> The biggest momentum she ever had was shaking her rump for Brodus Clay for a few months.
> I never said it was all bhm, hometown thing was obviously a factor too, 2 birds with 1 stone kind of thing.
> 
> Really very obvious, but sure, lets randomly reward all of the hard working, overlooked performers with straight from out of the blue token title reigns - Just because ,,, They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap] They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap]


That's my point, her injury meant she didn't have any momentum going in so they had to really book her strong. Her winning could have been planned long ago but her injury affected how well those plans came across.

She had a lot of momentum as a babyface opposing AJ Lee before Alsana injured her, and a lot of momentum when she first turned heel on Paige.

If WM was in Alexas home town and they randomly slapped the Title on her then the same people shitting on this would be loving it...


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> That's my point, her injury meant she didn't have any momentum going in so they had to really book her strong. Her winning could have been planned long ago but her injury affected how well those plans came across.


Insofar as it has long been evident that FEB would be coming after JAN, and WM shortly thereafter, sure plans could have been made well in advance - And I really don't think 2 hotshot wins and 1 kick [after she stood there in 100% silence for over 10 minutes while the other 3 divas promo'ed] could be considered a strong booking. It was what it is - A slapdash plan to give her the title in FEB over all other considerations, no other way to do it.

If the latest injury is to be believed, maybe they rushed it a bit too quickly.




> She had a lot of momentum as a babyface opposing AJ Lee before Alsana injured her, and a lot of momentum when she first turned heel on Paige.
> 
> If WM was in Alexas home town and they randomly slapped the Title on her then the same people shitting on this would be loving it...


Thats a random bit of speculation, haven't heard it before anyhow - Mostly likely because you are the only one thinking it.
Don't think anyone truly likes to see shitty, agenda motivated booking, but I will grant that sure, far more people would want to see Bliss as champ than naomi.


----------



## ColeStar (Apr 13, 2006)

LowRida said:


> Possible there was, but I doubt if there was a conference where all the WWE honchos got together and said "Hey, you know black history month is coming up, maybe we should toss a bone to minorities and enhance our ad nauseum multi weekly promotions and give a short title run to a black star !" These people know each other well enough, more than likely the script came from the top on short notice, and was implemented without anyone having to get into the reasons behind it, which they already knew with a wink of an eye.
> 
> As far as "numerous promotions have won championships in similar circumstances before", care to name some examples ?
> You might point to the swaps of Charlotte/Banks, but the swaps themselves developed into a build and angle, and there weren't many if any people saying neither one deserved it or came from out of nowhere. When you have a whole series of champ vs #1 challenger title matches, someone has got to win and its not always going to be the champ.
> ...





LowRida said:


> True, no need to even debate the point that weird title runs out of the blue are not unprecedented or rare.
> 
> In the case of Sheamus though, it was used to try to establish an emerging star, so at least it had a valid objective - And we needn't go very far comparing Sheamus with Naomi, I hope you agree. Sheamus was an is close with HHH, he is a great performer and legit tough guy. May be in a charisma/gimmick vacuum but that doesn't take away from his proven performance.
> 
> You seem Ok, I'm sorry if I'm a jerk sometimes. I have a major pet peeve against entitlements, and rightly or wrong, that is the way I perceive this whole thing. Is a precedent now established that a home town performer is always going to be a champ at WM ,,, Or is that just for certain people at a certain time of year ?


I'm not trying to put down Sheamus at all. I was a fan of his in the British indies, was pleased when he got signed by WWE and was even happier when he got onto TV. When he won the title I was arguing in his favour whilst many others were trashing him and saying he shouldn't be in the spot.

No worries, I prefer when these things can be discussed amicably rather than in flame wars. I don't think we'll end up with such a precedent. We know Vince has a tendency to mess with performers in their hometowns so I doubt that will go away. Regardless, by the time their careers are said and done, I'd expect Bliss to have more significant title runs and time at the top than Naomi as she is the superior all-round wrestler.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

LowRida said:


> um, what "momentum" are you referring to ?
> The biggest momentum she ever had was shaking her rump for Brodus Clay for a few months.
> I never said it was all bhm, hometown thing was obviously a factor too, 2 birds with 1 stone kind of thing.
> 
> Really very obvious, but sure, lets randomly reward all of the hard working, overlooked performers with straight from out of the blue token title reigns - Just because ,,, They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap] They Deserve It ! [clap clap clappity clap]


I totally agree with ya on the you deserve it chant, it was utter horseshit (as 90% of the you deserve it chants have also been)

But I gotta disagree on the momentum bit, right before her injury she was on a roll and probably about to win the title, she was over with the crowd and actually putting on some decent matches (not great of course but decent).. 

Unfortunantly for her she has regressed significantly in ring and has been surpassed talent wise and over wise (if over wise makes sense lol) by a handful of women.

I'll also assume I'm agreeing with you with this.. to all the people who think Naomi should be champ, I gotta ask, do you think Naomi having the belt is gonna yield the best matches and most entertaining segments? The answers NO, she therefore shouldn't be champion, especially not during Wrestlemania season.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> I totally agree with ya on the you deserve it chant, it was utter horseshit (as 90% of the you deserve it chants have also been)
> 
> But I gotta disagree on the momentum bit, right before her injury she was on a roll and probably about to win the title, she was over with the crowd and actually putting on some decent matches (not great of course but decent)..
> 
> ...


I take you are your word on the momentum thing, can't say I paid much attention, don't remember at all when she was injured, and didn't wonder once when/if she was coming back - Didn't notice she was gone. Of course, thats me, I know she has somewhat of a fanbase who doubtless were wondering.
I find it hard to believe she was anywhere near the title scene, though it can be said that any diva that gets any air time at all is a potential contender, especially on SD where they really don't have an established alpha female. Maybe they did have a proper build in mind before they had to rush it for bhm, who knows ?

As far as her pops, granted her entrance is pulsating and visually appealing, as it was meant to be. I think they could pretty much play the music and flash the lights and get a good round of cheers without her even coming out.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

LowRida said:


> I take you are your word on the momentum thing, can't say I paid much attention, don't remember at all when she was injured, and didn't wonder once when/if she was coming back - Didn't notice she was gone. Of course, thats me, I know she has somewhat of a fanbase who doubtless were wondering.
> I find it hard to believe she was anywhere near the title scene, though it can be said that any diva that gets any air time at all is a potential contender, especially on SD where they really don't have an established alpha female. Maybe they did have a proper build in mind before they had to rush it for bhm, who knows ?
> 
> As far as her pops, granted her entrance is pulsating and visually appealing, as it was meant to be. I think they could pretty much play the music and flash the lights and get a good round of cheers without her even coming out.


I can't remember if it was during Nikki's record reign, if it was there was no way she was winning, but they at the very least were building her up as a serious contender, not a contender like Alicia Fox is a contender.... .... .... sorry bringing Alexia Fox always makes my mind wander... any way, as for Naomi's entrance, I personally find it annoying and a bit of a cheap excuse for a gimmick, also think the Feel the Glow catch phrase lies somewhere between really stupid and really fucking stupid. As you can see I'm not a fan of Naomi's lol but again I can't deny at one time she had potential, she just regressed a lot and got pushed down the pecking order by better talent.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

LowRida said:


> Insofar as it has long been evident that FEB would be coming after JAN, and WM shortly thereafter, sure plans could have been made well in advance - And I really don't think 2 hotshot wins and 1 kick [after she stood there in 100% silence for over 10 minutes while the other 3 divas promo'ed] could be considered a strong booking. It was what it is - A slapdash plan to give her the title in FEB over all other considerations, no other way to do it.
> 
> If the latest injury is to be believed, maybe they rushed it a bit too quickly.
> 
> ...


It's not speculation, most people are hypocrites and play favourites. Alexa is an IWC darling right now who could kill a bus load of puppies and still be adored while Naomi could save a bus load of puppies and people would still hate on her for it. I mean the Bliss fans act lol like she's the GOAT Women's wrestler while they claim Naomi is the worst ever...


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

"Feel the glow" is obviously ludicrous for any sane adult, but probably not a bad marketing ploy as a way to get her over a bit without actually doing anything.
People naturally get amped up when lights go out in a crowd, music thumps and lights flash. To see a gyrating glowing figure is visually striking both live [I would imagine] and on TV.
So yeah, the phrase is stupid but it fits her gimmick and fits her. [ I actually tried to mean that as sort of a compliment]

Props where props are do - I could do without the entrance [and her obviously], but if it drums up interest and excitement over her, good for her. Entrances as we all know is a factor in the overall development and advancement of characters - And especially selling to the audience.



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> It's not speculation, most people are hypocrites and play favourites. Alexa is an IWC darling right now who could kill a bus load of puppies and still be adored while Naomi could save a bus load of puppies and people would still hate on her for it. I mean the Bliss fans act lol like she's the GOAT Women's wrestler while they claim Naomi is the worst ever...


Point granted as a probability but sorry, still speculation.
I don't see many here propose Bliss as GOAT, yes they are enamored and think she is super hot, which she is. They like her character, in ring prowess and see great potential - And its true, the same generally cannot be said about Naomi ,, Hard worker, athletic and veteran though she may be.
I guess it comes down to everyone cannot be very popular and fan favorites, else there' d be no low/mid card. Who gets popular and shoots to stardom tends to resolve itself.


----------



## ThEmB0neZ (Jan 24, 2012)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> How did Beckys run as Champ help the division? Or Alexas? I get that you borderline hate Naomi and are big fans of the previous Champs so your view point is a little skewed. But Becky had a shit Title run, Alexa had a shit Title run, so if Naomi does have a shit Title run how's it any worse?


Can you read? Did I say the others didn't have a shit runs. They didn't get the title because their hometown was at the next PPV at least and actual build.
Becky got the title because she was over and the first draft pick. Alexa got the title after 2 months of feuding with Becky. Naomi got the title being gone for 2 months. Then comes back in her first singles match and wins with no build up. I said I don't hate Naomi(wanted her to win against AJ). I said it would've been fine with it if she had some build(at least a month). It makes it look like the only reason she has the title is because her hometown is at Mania and hot shotted it. Wrong reasons not deserving. That's why she doesn't deserve it right now because WWE makes the title win less important by putting it on anyone for the hell of it. It's worse because it makes the title just look like a prop to put on somebody for wrong reasons(hometown) instead of the right reasons(build up/story). Naomi loses at Mania it buries the title even further. 
Naomi>Nikki BTW

No I borderline hate Nikki(Cena). Actually only really like Becky and Naomi(on Smackdown)I'm a face guy. Would've been happy if she won it after Mania or even at Backlash. Now it's tainted for me. Sorry.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

LowRida said:


> I take you are your word on the momentum thing, can't say I paid much attention, don't remember at all when she was injured, and didn't wonder once when/if she was coming back - Didn't notice she was gone. Of course, thats me, I know she has somewhat of a fanbase who doubtless were wondering.
> I find it hard to believe she was anywhere near the title scene, though it can be said that any diva that gets any air time at all is a potential contender, especially on SD where they really don't have an established alpha female. Maybe they did have a proper build in mind before they had to rush it for bhm, who knows ?
> 
> As far as her pops, granted her entrance is pulsating and visually appealing, as it was meant to be. I think they could pretty much play the music and flash the lights and get a good round of cheers without her even coming out.


I don't get why you're so shocked Naomi has ever been near the Title scene before...this is the WWE we're talking about after all. And even now in 2017 the chick Naomi beat largely gets by on her looks>talent.



LowRida said:


> "Feel the glow" is obviously ludicrous for any sane adult, but probably not a bad marketing ploy as a way to get her over a bit without actually doing anything.
> People naturally get amped up when lights go out in a crowd, music thumps and lights flash. To see a gyrating glowing figure is visually striking both live [I would imagine] and on TV.
> So yeah, the phrase is stupid but it fits her gimmick and fits her. [ I actually tried to mean that as sort of a compliment]
> 
> ...


This is pro wrestling...one of the biggest stars ever had the catchphrase "if you smell what the Rock is cooking". It's all ludicrous and stupid really.

Look in any Bliss or Naomi thread and you'll find some hardcore Bliss fans calling her GOAT, best heel, best wrestler, etc. People see what they want to see, Bliss is hot and has NXT creed so she's deemed to be amazing while utterly shitting on Naomi is acceptable. Let's lay it all out...a cute but very green and raw woman who is adored online lost to someone who isn't adored and people lost their minds over it. If people aren't seeing potential in Naomi it's because they've decided she's shit and nothing can budge their stubborn opinion.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

ThEmB0neZ said:


> Can you read? Did I say the others didn't have a shit runs. They didn't get the title because their hometown was at the next PPV at least and actual build.
> Becky got the title because she was over and the first draft pick. Alexa got the title after 2 months of feuding with Becky. Naomi got the title being gone for 2 months. Then comes back in her first singles match and wins with no build up. I said I don't hate Naomi(wanted her to win against AJ). I said it would've been fine with it if she had some build(at least a month). It makes it look like the only reason she has the title is because her hometown is at Mania and hot shotted it. Wrong reasons not deserving. That's why she doesn't deserve it right now because WWE makes the title win less important by putting it on anyone for the hell of it. It's worse because it makes the title just look like a prop to put on somebody for wrong reasons(hometown) instead of the right reasons(build up/story). Naomi loses at Mania it buries the title even further.
> Naomi>Nikki BTW
> 
> No I borderline hate Nikki(Cena). Actually only really like Becky and Naomi(on Smackdown)I'm a face guy. Would've been happy if she won it after Mania or even at Backlash. Now it's tainted for me. Sorry.


I feel sorry for you, to hate on someone you don't know and has zero impact on your life like Nikki, it's sad.

What you completely and utterly missed is that I was pointing that out because you were so outraged by Naomi winning and acting like it's some uniquely horrible thing when both previous SDL Women's Title runs have been shit anyway. Nothing Naomi is booked to do will hurt this joke Championship.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I don't get why you're so shocked Naomi has ever been near the Title scene before...this is the WWE we're talking about after all. And even now in 2017 the chick Naomi beat largely gets by on her looks>talent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, its pro wrestling, I kinda get that.
Yes, people will believe what they want to believe, same as you and me. GOAT ridiculous, have personally never seen it said and would LOL if I did. She may well be the best heel female wrestler today, thats a matter of opinion.
Yes, many people have decided Naomi is shit, its not the type of thing that can be proven right or wrong. She IMO is incapable of generating much interest, is not entertaining [glow entrance aside], is nothing much to look at, is an embarrassment with a mic in hand, and does botch a fair amount to the point where safety of both her and opponent is a concern. On the + side, she is indeed athletic and I personally don't find her either ugly or attractive. I would about rather watch paint dry than her perform, unless she is matched against someone I am interested in, then I'm half way interested at least.

So of course alot of folks would wonder, why is someone like that even drawing a paycheck ? Her fans would beg to differ on all points [except terrible mic work maybe], and you get what you have hear - A 25 page thread over a stupid topic.


----------



## SpeedStick (Feb 11, 2010)

Imagine Naomi's entrance at Wrestlemania﻿


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

SpeedStick said:


> Imagine Naomi's entrance at Wrestlemania﻿


Glow cast, glow crutches !


----------



## rennlc (Feb 22, 2011)

Glow tears when she loses the title?


----------



## Gravyv321 (Feb 10, 2017)

i think the weird backlash is cuz fans are jealous of that big ol' dark booty of hers.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Gravyv321 said:


> i think the weird backlash is cuz fans are nauseated of that big ol' dark booty of hers.


Edited for truth


----------



## LucasXXII (Apr 21, 2014)

To be fair, seeing how since last July Naomi had always interacted with Alexa, I would guess a feud between the two has always been the plan. It just happened to take place as late as February due to Becky and her getting put out of action respectively. Also, I doubt Naomi was given that entrance just to linger around the women's undercard.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

LowRida said:


> Yes, its pro wrestling, I kinda get that.
> Yes, people will believe what they want to believe, same as you and me. GOAT ridiculous, have personally never seen it said and would LOL if I did. She may well be the best heel female wrestler today, thats a matter of opinion.
> Yes, many people have decided Naomi is shit, its not the type of thing that can be proven right or wrong. She IMO is incapable of generating much interest, is not entertaining [glow entrance aside], is nothing much to look at, is an embarrassment with a mic in hand, and does botch a fair amount to the point where safety of both her and opponent is a concern. On the + side, she is indeed athletic and I personally don't find her either ugly or attractive. I would about rather watch paint dry than her perform, unless she is matched against someone I am interested in, then I'm half way interested at least.
> 
> So of course alot of folks would wonder, why is someone like that even drawing a paycheck ? Her fans would beg to differ on all points [except terrible mic work maybe], and you get what you have hear - A 25 page thread over a stupid topic.


Again though she rarely botches thesedays, people are shitting on her for mistakes she made in 2015(?) and acting like it just happened.

The not being entertaining or attractive thing is entirely subjective as well. She's had some good moments on the mic as a heel too.


----------



## Wildcat410 (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm not particulary upset over Alexa losing a title she probably should not have had yet anyway. (Becky should still be champ and her feud with Mickie ought to be a part of it.)

That said, save her new entrance Naomi has been a rather nondescript performer for someone that has been on the roster for basically a half decade. Summer Rae probably has more moments that bring a smile to my face. And she has been used as nothing but a jobber and is mia from tv for months at a time.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

LucasXXII said:


> To be fair, seeing how since last July Naomi had always interacted with Alexa, I would guess a feud between the two has always been the plan. It just happened to take place as late as February due to Becky and her getting put out of action respectively. Also, I doubt Naomi was given that entrance just to linger around the women's undercard.


Fair point, but the glow gimmick is just a morph from when she wore the glow sneakers for a few months, is apparently her idea and she sold it to Vince.

For sure the best thing she has got going, but from the looks of it, doesn't appear tied to any long term attempt towards a major push, else creative would have been behind the whole conception.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/article/naomi-glow-in-the-dark-interview


----------



## 307858 (Jul 25, 2014)

Racism. There are a lot of white trash, hicks, Dumpster Trumpsters on here. She's just a vehicle for them to project hate. 

Naomi is not the best wrestler, but she's no Eva Marie. She's still entertaining and more attractive than the butterfaces and transexual on Raw.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

heel_turn said:


> Racism. There are a lot of white trash, hicks, Dumpster Trumpsters on here. She's just a vehicle for them to project hate.
> 
> Naomi is not the best wrestler, but she's no Eva Marie. She's still entertaining and more attractive than the butterfaces and transexual on Raw.


Anyone bringing up race into this should just have their post removed. Naomi has some haters and some fans, just like every wrestler white or black in the wwe.


----------



## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

I don't watch WWE anymore but I do have a few legit questions.

I've read that Naomi is "ugly" but no one goes on to elaborate. You can say Nicole Bass was ugly, ok, I get it, but with Naomi, you have to be specific.

Kabraxal, you mention Naomi has been in WWE for 7 years, but you forget that a lot of time ws during the 3 minute match, piss break era AND she was a Funkadactyl, not a wrestler for a chunk as well.

A lot of people want build up, there's no problem there. But does anyone remember Santino beating Umaga or Taylor Wilde beating Awesome Kong? It's called shock and awe.

This "sudden challenger" thing isn't new, it's actually a problem all over the card. Bray was a non factor for years and suddenly he's champion, see, black or white, man or woman, this happens in wrestling.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

DX-Superkick said:


> I don't watch WWE anymore but I do have a few legit questions.
> 
> I've read that Naomi is "ugly" but no one goes on to elaborate. You can say Nicole Bass was ugly, ok, I get it, but with Naomi, you have to be specific.
> 
> ...


* I'm not one who said or thinks she is ugly. I'm not attracted to her, I don't think she is "hot" according to my tastes in woman, but certainly not what I would define as ugly.
It is a subjective term, in the eye of the beholder, and impossible to quantify.

* Brays champ run wasn't very sudden, he has been steadily climbing with wins, the Orton angle was a month+ Its not like he disappeared for months, came back and got 2 out of the blue quick wins on the champ and was gifted the title because his home town was in Orlando, not at all. His rise was a fairly steady progression, just the opposite of Naomi.
While out of the blue underdog wins are not unprecedented, this one was particularly rushed and has [time sensitive] agenda written all over it, which is why some folks have a problem with it.


----------



## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

LowRida said:


> * Brays champ run wasn't very sudden, he has been steadily climbing with wins, the Orton angle was a month+ Its not like he disappeared for months, came back and got 2 out of the blue quick wins on the champ and was gifted the title because his home town was in Orlando, not at all. His rise was a fairly steady progression, just the opposite of Naomi.
> 
> While out of the blue underdog wins are not unprecedented, this one was particularly rushed and has [time sensitive] agenda written all over it, which is why some folks have a problem with it.


Correct me if I'm wrong but Bray has lost every main event feud he's been in. Cena, Brock, Bryan and Undertaker x2. A few wins over a couple months doesn't wash away YEARS of mishandling. Bray's the definition of "sudden challenger." He just so happen to win a multi man match, OUTTA NOWHERE!

What is this thing about hometown. Sasha lost in her hometown at HiaC, Brock got owned by Taker in his hometown....Hometown means nothing. Hell during the height of Ryder-Mania WWE didn't even put him on the show in Long Island, what does the hometown have to do with anything?

So what it's February. People of Color win titles at anytime of the year. Sasha, Jason Jordan, the Cruiserweight champ, New Day....February has dick all to do with anything.


----------



## King BOOKAH (Jun 21, 2013)

AmWolves10 said:


> Anyone bringing up race into this should just have their post removed. Naomi has some haters and some fans, just like every wrestler white or black in the wwe.


I don't think I've heard anyone who isn't white say things like this..

Its a relevant topic.

There is a reason that a Rock or a Sasha are easier to pass to the masses apart from a Booker T or a Naomi apart from natural talent, its just easier to make them identifiable and that's just business.

A LARGE majority of the audience are white and specifically white males. Pandering to them SHOULD be of the utmost priority from a financial standpoint. I'm black and understand it completely. I don't like it but I'm not blind either.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Bray is well known to have been misused, buried, meandering plot in the past ect.
_YOU_ directly compared Brays recent win with Naomis, I responded then you move the goal posts. If you want to go back years down memory lane sure, do you want to start with the Funkadelics ?

As far as the hometown/feb thing, it is so obvious that I am not even going to debate the issue anymore - You don't want to see it right in front of your face, then don't.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

King BOOKAH said:


> AmWolves10 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone bringing up race into this should just have their post removed. Naomi has some haters and some fans, just like every wrestler white or black in the wwe.
> ...



Rock is popular because he is one of the most confident and greatest speakers in wrestling, well in any form of entertainment. He actually is his nickname, he is the most electrifying man in sports entertainment history. it has nothing to do with his race or skin color. Bo Dallas is white and he's not as popular as Kofi Kingston is and that has nothing to do with race. I can't stand when people bring race into things for no reason. Every wrestler white or black has haters. AJ Styles and John Cena both have haters, just like Shelton Benjamin and Xavier Woods.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Naomi beat Alexa at No Mercy 2016. Beat her again at Royal Rumble 2017. People (including me) shouldn't have been surprised by her title win. Naomi had Alexa's number from the get go.

- Vic


----------



## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

Why is the race card being pulled? Ffs get outta here lol


----------



## VitoCorleoneX (Jun 27, 2016)

mental breakdown because their fav *cesored* alexa bliss lost.


----------



## Stormbringer (May 3, 2008)

LowRida said:


> Bray is well known to have been misused, buried, meandering plot in the past ect.
> _YOU_ directly compared Brays recent win with Naomis, I responded then you move the goal posts. If you want to go back years down memory lane sure, do you want to start with the Funkadelics ?
> 
> As far as the hometown/feb thing, it is so obvious that I am not even going to debate the issue anymore - You don't want to see it right in front of your face, then don't.


I did mention the Funkadactyls. It was because people keep saying 7 years like it means something. It's a fact that women's wrestling in WWE has sucked for a decade, they use this very fact to hype a "revolution" that brought longer matches. But for years it was 4 minute matches and nothing programs. It's an all things considered type of thing. She's from the very shitty point in the Diva era where Kelly Kelly was a contender. Naomi much like Bray, has had a rocky career filled with mismanagement and suddenly they're champions. It happens.

As for the February crap, saying "she only won because she's black in February," is the other side of the "you only hate her because she's black" coin. It's messed up either way. To be mad about her win is one thing, but to try and diminish it due to color and month is just as ugly as saying she can't simply because she's black.


----------



## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

DX-Superkick said:


> I did mention the Funkadactyls. It was because people keep saying 7 years like it means something. It's a fact that women's wrestling in WWE has sucked for a decade, they use this very fact to hype a "revolution" that brought longer matches. But for years it was 4 minute matches and nothing programs. It's an all things considered type of thing. She's from the very shitty point in the Diva era where Kelly Kelly was a contender. Naomi much like Bray, has had a rocky career filled with mismanagement and suddenly they're champions. It happens.
> 
> As for the February crap, saying "she only won because she's black in February," is the other side of the "you only hate her because she's black" coin. It's messed up either way. To be mad about her win is one thing, but to try and diminish it due to color and month is just as ugly as saying she can't simply because she's black.


1 more time.
For the 3 weeks from her return to the title, each and every week the announces would coyly insert, during her glow gimmick entrance, that she was from Orlando, WM just happens to bew in Orlando this year, and it was a life long dream of hers to go to her hometown as champion.
JBL said that the very night she was handed the title. If you think thats just a random coincidence, you are in true denial. WWE announcers don't say ANYTHING without it being highly scripted and for a reason. Obviously, they were in on the script well in advance and were told to subtly prep the audience, then when it happened they are like "Well what do you know ?? Her life long dream came true after all ! She will walk into her hometown WM womans champ !!"
Most of us here are not so gullible as to fall for this is as a happy coincidence - I have never cut out a portion of a video for a clip before, but I still have these on my computer, of them dropping the hometown hints every single week during her entrance. Assuming that is true, do you still cling to the belief that hometown had nothing to do with it ? 

As far as the Feb thing, timing is everything. If it was just WM they could have waited a bit longer, only had 4 chances to fit the angle in in Feb.
As we know, each and every week, twice a week in fact if Raw and Smackdown are included, they devote 5/10 minutes with every single episode during the month with a spiel about black history month, and they have been doing this for some years now.
If you seriously think that the symbolism of a long ignored, underachieving black performer finally realizing her life long dream after 8 long years and winning a title, and by happy chance, just during black history month, was completely lost on a man like Vince, I don't know what to say to you.


----------



## JC00 (Nov 20, 2011)

Vic Capri said:


> Naomi beat Alexa at No Mercy 2016. Beat her again at Royal Rumble 2017. People (including me) shouldn't have been surprised by her title win. Naomi had Alexa's number from the get go.
> 
> - Vic


 In singles matches it's 2-2 between them . Alexa beat her on the SD after No Mercy and on Main Event a week or so before TLC.


----------



## Jackbox (Sep 5, 2016)

AmWolves10 said:


> Anyone bringing up race into this should just have their post removed. Naomi has some haters and some fans, just like every wrestler white or black in the wwe.


 Yeah man that's bullshit. Ppl trying to act like wrestling internet fans aren't ever racist aren't living in reality.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Jackbox said:


> AmWolves10 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone bringing up race into this should just have their post removed. Naomi has some haters and some fans, just like every wrestler white or black in the wwe.
> ...


You're the one not living in reality bringing up this fantasy racism imaginary crap. A black wrestler has people not liking them? racism. white wrestlers have people not liking them? they just suck? no it goes both ways, every wrestler is just judged by their talent and abilities that's it. Stop having stupid delusions about anything else.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

King BOOKAH said:


> I don't think I've heard anyone who isn't white say things like this..
> 
> Its a relevant topic.
> 
> ...


You should probably do some research before you talk random shit.

Almost 50% of WWE's audience in the US is ethnic (black, latino, asian, etc.) Then you count all the overseas places that WWE is extremely popular like India, the Middle East, and Africa, and it skews things even further.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

AmWolves10 said:


> You're the one not living in reality bringing up this fantasy racism imaginary crap. A black wrestler has people not liking them? racism. white wrestlers have people not liking them? they just suck? no it goes both ways, every wrestler is just judged by their talent and abilities that's it. Stop having stupid delusions about anything else.


Maybe go to a show and see the racist shit certain superstars, especially in NXT these days, get shouted at them on a regular basis. Maybe then you will understand. Right now you just sound like a 15 year old kid with no understanding of the world.

Things have improved a lot since back in the day, but female superstars and superstars from ethnic backgrounds still deal with shit others do not.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Just to illustrate one massive fuck up by this talentless bitch....











Not only does she rush the move and never look back to ensure Alexa is in place for the move, but she fucking plants her in the middle of the ring and immediately turns away, forcing her opponent to try and salvage the situation by rolling an unrealistic and glaringly fake way to even let Naomi get close to hitting her. 

This is why this bitch has "haters". She fucking sucks. And not in a "I don't like her so she sucks!" way. No, she just fucking objectively sucks. You could pull a half dozen of botches by this woman from this match alone. Start pulling all of her botches out and you should just make the "Accident Waiting to Happen" retrospective of her awful career right now.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Sweggeh said:


> AmWolves10 said:
> 
> 
> > You're the one not living in reality bringing up this fantasy racism imaginary crap. A black wrestler has people not liking them? racism. white wrestlers have people not liking them? they just suck? no it goes both ways, every wrestler is just judged by their talent and abilities that's it. Stop having stupid delusions about anything else.
> ...


New Day is one of the leaders in merchandise sales, yeah the crowd sure is racist, lmfao.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

AmWolves10 said:


> New Day is one of the leaders in merchandise sales, yeah the crowd sure is racist, lmfao.


Listen, you can say whatever you want but until you go to a show and see a wrestler awkwardly try to work through a match while sections of a crowd are shouting racist slurs at them all night, then you can tell me if racism exists in wrestling or not.

Just because the majority of wrestling fans are not racist anymore, doesnt mean there arent a lot still out there.


----------



## Jackbox (Sep 5, 2016)

AmWolves10 said:


> You're the one not living in reality bringing up this fantasy racism imaginary crap. A black wrestler has people not liking them? racism. white wrestlers have people not liking them? they just suck? no it goes both ways, every wrestler is just judged by their talent and abilities that's it. Stop having stupid delusions about anything else.


 Dude are you seriously trying to say there's no racism from wrestling fans towards black wrestlers? either you're a troll or have some sort of psychosis.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Jackbox said:


> AmWolves10 said:
> 
> 
> > You're the one not living in reality bringing up this fantasy racism imaginary crap. A black wrestler has people not liking them? racism. white wrestlers have people not liking them? they just suck? no it goes both ways, every wrestler is just judged by their talent and abilities that's it. Stop having stupid delusions about anything else.
> ...


New Day is one of the leading merchandise sellers. if that's racism I wouldn't mind some racism being thrown my way.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Just to illustrate one massive fuck up by this talentless bitch....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes because Alexa is a pillar of crisp work and ring generalship. All of the women botch a fucking lot. The only botches that seem to matter are the women any given poster doesn't like. 


On topic

I think the main problem is while people do appreciate women in the ring more, it still comes down to hotness. Most of the criticism about the women revolves around looks. Why do you think Sasha and Charlotte being compared to dogs/horses and transgenders respectively is so prominent. Why do you think Becky's adorableness is brought up in why she's such a good face all the time. Clearly Alexa's looks are leading her charge.

The fanbase is overwhelmingly white males, and I just don't think most are into big booty dark skinned black women. Her character is also clearly unapologetically black with the way she speaks and carries herself, so that in itself probably furthers the alienation. To a lot it's probably a case of "why is she acting/talking ghetto" when culturally that's just how a lot of folk talk. 

They don't want to fuck her, they don't relate, she's not exactly flawless in the ring, and she beat the hot white girl. I see why most don't like her




Jackbox said:


> Dude are you seriously trying to say there's no racism from wrestling fans towards black wrestlers? either you're a troll or have some sort of psychosis.


My favorite thing with New Day was when most were talking about it was bs they were probably going to get a dancing gimmick. So their bright idea was, let's make them militant blacks "because clearly that's never been a trope used with black folk, on mostly white shows"

This is a business were Booker T didn't start really connecting until he started break dancing in the middle of the ring and he was from Harlem because it was tough and black.

Or hell even off of blacks how they always have great ideas like "hey let's put all the Samoans together in a vicious stable that's unique" or "let's put the Europeans all together". 

Wrestling is very susceptible to racism and embracing of stereotypes. It is what it is, I don't know why folk try to act like racism and prejudice is dead and gone.


----------



## N3LL14 (Aug 24, 2015)

Kabraxal said:


> Just to illustrate one massive fuck up by this talentless bitch....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You feel better now breh?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RapShepard said:


> Yes because Alexa is a pillar of crisp work and ring generalship. All of the women botch a fucking lot. The only botches that seem to matter are the women any given poster doesn't like.
> 
> 
> On topic
> ...


Except, in that very same match, Naomi not only has another half dozen glaringly awful botches, but Alexa, the green (and to some horrible) wrestler, manages to do a move closer to the corner, drag her opponent into place, confirm her position from the top rope, then do her move....... and she lands perfectly. Naomi is shit in the ring.



N3LL14 said:


> You feel better now breh?


That talentless bitch is still degrading the title by holding it so no... my luck, Eva Marie will come back in a shocking return and roll her up to degrade the belt even more instead of putting it on talented performers.


----------



## Jackbox (Sep 5, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> My favorite thing with New Day was when most were talking about it was bs they were probably going to get a dancing gimmick. So their bright idea was, let's make them militant blacks "because clearly that's never been a trope used with black folk, on mostly white shows"
> 
> This is a business were Booker T didn't start really connecting until he started break dancing in the middle of the ring and he was from Harlem because it was tough and black.
> 
> ...


 Yeah and I remember when New Day first came with their gimmick and ppl were saying they were gonna flop but they did what they did to get over and now they're big time. I think things have improved Naomi is finally connecting with the crowd like she never has, so that says something.

But yeah I guess ppl who act like that do it to hide there own prejudice. If they say it's not there they think nobody will notice when they do it. But it always gets noticed either way.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

RapShepard said:


> Yes because Alexa is a pillar of crisp work and ring generalship. All of the women botch a fucking lot. The only botches that seem to matter are the women any given poster doesn't like.
> 
> 
> On topic
> ...


Most of the fans find Sasha Banks to be very attractive. The only ones who say otherwise are the virgin nerd wrestling geeks pretending to be they are some kind of Tom Brady or Brad Pitt from the comforts of their moms basement's computer. She is quite over with most of the adult white male fans at the actual events and she is black.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Jackbox said:


> Yeah and I remember when New Day first came with their gimmick and ppl were saying they were gonna flop but they did what they did to get over and now they're big time. I think things have improved Naomi is finally connecting with the crowd like she never has, so that says something.
> 
> But yeah I guess ppl who act like that do it to hide there own prejudice. If they say it's not there they think nobody will notice when they do it. But it always gets noticed either way.


I don't think most of it is purposeful prejudice or racism. I think it's similar to how some black folk think all white rappers are trying to be like Eminem and shit or don't relate to Eminem's life and style so they downplay his skills.

I do agree shits better than it must have been for folk back in the 70s and 80s.




Kabraxal said:


> Except, in that very same match, Naomi not only has another half dozen glaringly awful botches, but Alexa, the green (and to some horrible) wrestler, manages to do a move closer to the corner, drag her opponent into place, confirm her position from the top rope, then do her move....... and she lands perfectly. Naomi is shit in the ring.
> 
> 
> 
> That talentless bitch is still degrading the title by holding it so no... my luck, Eva Marie will come back in a shocking return and roll her up to degrade the belt even more instead of putting it on talented performers.


Alexa nor Naomi are good enough to be champion in my opinion. They both can barely be led to a good match, let alone led someone at the same level to one. I feel like if people were okay with Alexa you might as well be okay with Naomi, because in ring they both offer athleticness and nothing else and to me neither are standout promos.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RapShepard said:


> I don't think most of it is purposeful prejudice or racism. I think it's similar to how some black folk think all white rappers are trying to be like Eminem and shit or don't relate to Eminem's life and style so they downplay his skills.
> 
> I do agree shits better than it must have been for folk back in the 70s and 80s.
> 
> ...


Alexa is passable in the ring and, unlike the human botch machine, she has shown improvement her entire tenure in the WWE. If she was 7 years in and showed no improvement at any point, you could then argue her and Naomi are alike in that respect. 

As for the promo... well, you can have that opinion but I think most would avidly disagree with you there. Alexa is the best promo either roster for the women. Hell, she is simply one of the best promos the WWE has period right now. Her promo and character work is a huge part of why she continually gets more and more over. And luckily for us, she is up against a black hole of talent and the few in the crowd that are into Naomi will turn on her quick as she is continually eaten alive in this feud (if it goes long especially).


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

AmWolves10 said:


> Most of the fans find Sasha Banks to be very attractive. The only ones who say otherwise are the virgin nerd wrestling geeks pretending to be they are some kind of Tom Brady or Brad Pitt from the comforts of their moms basement's computer. She is quite over with most of the adult white male fans at the actual events and she is black.


I know Sasha is over, but her and every woman get a lot of judgement on their looks. Then there's also the thing of at silly as it sounds the way light skinned black women and dark skinned black women are treated and viewed is massive, that's something that hasn't left since the slave days, and is even prominent in black focused media. 

Light skin blacks are usually treated better do to being closer to white. Even in 2017 they're mostly seen as more attractive and nicer. Where as dark skinned women are usually viewed as combative, angry, bitchy, are given crazy compliments like "you're pretty for a dark skinned girl". 



Kabraxal said:


> Alexa is passable in the ring and, unlike the human botch machine, she has shown improvement her entire tenure in the WWE. If she was 7 years in and showed no improvement at any point, you could then argue her and Naomi are alike in that respect.
> 
> As for the promo... well, you can have that opinion but I think most would avidly disagree with you there. Alexa is the best promo either roster for the women. Hell, she is simply one of the best promos the WWE has period right now. Her promo and character work is a huge part of why she continually gets more and more over. And luckily for us, she is up against a black hole of talent and the few in the crowd that are into Naomi will turn on her quick as she is continually eaten alive in this feud (if it goes long especially).


Alex isn't one of the best promos by far. She has no "you got to see that promos" no "that promo was the segment of the night type promos" she's nowhere near as good as Charlotte, Sasha, Nikki, or Becky on the mic. Alexa is a passable promo and character worker. People let her hotness speak for abilities she really doesn't have. She's Nikki with none of the polish being around for years affords you. 

Then in the ring she's only passable when she has someone great in the ring with her, just like Naomi. They both bring athleticism and nothing else to the table, at least nothing I'm buying. I called it when she first took the title off Becky this feud was going to expose her. It's been clear Naomi is at best mediocre for years, this is that slap in the face of "no Alexa isn't that good, give her time" that folk needed.

Will Alexa probably surpass Naomi down the line, more than likely she will. But right now we have a mediocre veteran with a inexperienced pretty much rookie and it's showing. You can only get over on being hot for so long.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RapShepard said:


> I know Sasha is over, but her and every woman get a lot of judgement on their looks. Then there's also the thing of at silly as it sounds the way light skinned black women and dark skinned black women are treated and viewed is massive, that's something that hasn't left since the slave days, and is even prominent in black focused media.
> 
> Light skin blacks are usually treated better do to being closer to white. Even in 2017 they're mostly seen as more attractive and nicer. Where as dark skinned women are usually viewed as combative, angry, bitchy, are given crazy compliments like "you're pretty for a dark skinned girl".
> 
> ...


Sasha has been shit on the mic since she hit the main roster. Charlotte is decent, but nothing must see. Nikki.... well, I flip the channel whenever she speaks because she just isn't good on the mic. She is on par with Natty there. I will say Becky is there in the discussion with Alexa. Those two are the only women that are absolutely must listen to on the promos since they can sometimes deliver the best one on any given week. Becky's post cage match loss promo backstage was one of the best face promos in a decade, male or female. Alexa's post championship win promo and her most recent SDL promo that tore Naomi to shreds were actually two of my favourite this past year. The only heel I'd put above her right now is the Miz... though Owens might make a surge if he gets to cut loose finally. 

Does Alexa need to get better still, though mostly in the ring? Yes. But, unlike Naomi, we have already seen major strides from the NXT Alexa in that department. I know some will kick and scream that she is doing less on the main roster, but then the obvious nature of wrestling psychology eludes them so it's no surprise they think holding back on her high risk arsenal makes her "lesser". I just hope the WWE keeps putting her in the ring with the Beckys and Mickies of the roster so she learns from the best... and they limit her matches with the likes of a Naomi that no woman on the roster could drag even a decent match out of. Hell, I don't think if you gave HBK or AJ Styles a sex change and put them in their with her they'd be able to drag that idiot to a good match. She'd still miss so many moves you would think you are watching a satire on wrestling instead of a wrestling show trying to be taken seriously as a wrestling show.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Sasha has been shit on the mic since she hit the main roster. Charlotte is decent, but nothing must see. Nikki.... well, I flip the channel whenever she speaks because she just isn't good on the mic. She is on par with Natty there. I will say Becky is there in the discussion with Alexa. Those two are the only women that are absolutely must listen to on the promos since they can sometimes deliver the best one on any given week. Becky's post cage match loss promo backstage was one of the best face promos in a decade, male or female. Alexa's post championship win promo and her most recent SDL promo that tore Naomi to shreds were actually two of my favourite this past year. The only heel I'd put above her right now is the Miz... though Owens might make a surge if he gets to cut loose finally.
> 
> Does Alexa need to get better still, though mostly in the ring? Yes. But, unlike Naomi, we have already seen major strides from the NXT Alexa in that department. I know some will kick and scream that she is doing less on the main roster, but then the obvious nature of wrestling psychology eludes them so it's no surprise they think holding back on her high risk arsenal makes her "lesser". I just hope the WWE keeps putting her in the ring with the Beckys and Mickies of the roster so she learns from the best... and they limit her matches with the likes of a Naomi that no woman on the roster could drag even a decent match out of. Hell, I don't think if you gave HBK or AJ Styles a sex change and put them in their with her they'd be able to drag that idiot to a good match. She'd still miss so many moves you would think you are watching a satire on wrestling instead of a wrestling show trying to be taken seriously as a wrestling show.


I think Sasha is an excellent promo, it's not her fault she had to plug women for months. But even still I think she did very well for having to shoe horn "Eddie" and "I am woman hear me roar". Stuff like her little backstage with Bayley the other week about how she's not okay are truer examples of her mic skills to me.

Personally I think Charlotte is the best promo out of the new generation. Well at least heel Charlotte. Her knowing how to reel the crowd back in and change inflections when she needs to is something a lot of the roster could learn from. Her promos on dropping Flair then her promo on being upset he backed Sasha were awesome to me.

I do think Alexa will get better, I really do. It's just I think they threw her in the deep end to early. To me it's similar to Reigns initial solo run, but she doesn't even have Shield type experience to run off of. Reigns did fine in his first big singles match with Orton, but that's Orton. Remember how dreadful him vs Kane or Big Show weekly was? And that's me as a big reigns fan saying those sucked most of the time. Reigns just wasn't ready to be going against Big Show and Kane types. I feel similar with Alexa, she needs more time to find herself. She's just passable with someone like Becky, there's not a lot of Becky's for her to work with 

To me I think Alexa shouldn't have even sniffed the title scene until at least a year. Should have had Nattie, building her up, then let her kick Naomi's ass in the undercard, the let say a Nikki or Mickie give her a nice look and more veteran tutorship. Then start teasing her as a main event worthy in the women's division. 

A lot of my disdain with her is because I feel like they rushed her and to cover for the lack of depth in the division. I think they did her and Carmella both a disservice by giving them too much too soon.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

RapShepard said:


> I think Sasha is an excellent promo, it's not her fault she had to plug women for months. But even still I think she did very well for having to shoe horn "Eddie" and "I am woman hear me roar". Stuff like her little backstage with Bayley the other week about how she's not okay are truer examples of her mic skills to me.
> 
> Personally I think Charlotte is the best promo out of the new generation. Well at least heel Charlotte. Her knowing how to reel the crowd back in and change inflections when she needs to is something a lot of the roster could learn from. Her promos on dropping Flair then her promo on being upset he backed Sasha were awesome to me.
> 
> ...


It wasn't just content for Sasha, but also her delivery itself. This is mostly the WWE's fault because she is a heel, not a pandering face. As for Charlotte... she delivers well, but her content (be it WWE or her own material) just feels like a retread of the same ideas. I don't hit her hard because, unlike Sasha, she makes the content at least work in the context of the feud. But none of her promos have had anything memorable to them. 

And I was confused when they strapped the rocket to Bliss when they did, but unlike so many that got that push way too quickly... she stepped up and starting owning her role. I knew she could give some good promos, based on her NXT work, but she started to make her segments must see and, in working with another great promo, Alexa became part of one of the two best feuds on the roster. And one that should be continuing and not on hiatus for the human botch machine's pity run (rumours of her retirement are music to my ears... that would be great). If Alexa hadn't shown up and hit her character and promos out of the park, I would be criticizing her and the WWE right now. 

I am not afraid to criticize when it is called for. I mean, I was a pretty big horsewomen mark but I have been disgusted with Sasha, bored of Charlotte, and ripping my hair out over Bayley since they got the call up. Who knew the best of the NXT crew would be the one that was the side character in the women's main event scene in Becky and the young green woman that hadn't had any real focus at all in NXT? Carmella has also been knocking it out of the park with her character and promos.... but dear god, she is probably worse than Alexa in the ring when Alexa was fumbling around in NXT early in her run.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> It wasn't just content for Sasha, but also her delivery itself. This is mostly the WWE's fault because she is a heel, not a pandering face. As for Charlotte... she delivers well, but her content (be it WWE or her own material) just feels like a retread of the same ideas. I don't hit her hard because, unlike Sasha, she makes the content at least work in the context of the feud. But none of her promos have had anything memorable to them.
> 
> And I was confused when they strapped the rocket to Bliss when they did, but unlike so many that got that push way too quickly... she stepped up and starting owning her role. I knew she could give some good promos, based on her NXT work, but she started to make her segments must see and, in working with another great promo, Alexa became part of one of the two best feuds on the roster. And one that should be continuing and not on hiatus for the human botch machine's pity run (rumours of her retirement are music to my ears... that would be great). If Alexa hadn't shown up and hit her character and promos out of the park, I would be criticizing her and the WWE right now.
> 
> I am not afraid to criticize when it is called for. I mean, I was a pretty big horsewomen mark but I have been disgusted with Sasha, bored of Charlotte, and ripping my hair out over Bayley since they got the call up. Who knew the best of the NXT crew would be the one that was the side character in the women's main event scene in Becky and the young green woman that hadn't had any real focus at all in NXT? Carmella has also been knocking it out of the park with her character and promos.... but dear god, she is probably worse than Alexa in the ring when Alexa was fumbling around in NXT early in her run.


I feel the boss is fine for a face character. They should be able to have a female who can be a cocky D.O.B. While I get why the WWE might have wanted to ram "hey we care about women now", I don't think it did her many favorites content wise.

Alexa I just haven't been impressed with, I want to be on some hometown markness. It's just idk right now it's ehh, for me with her. I guess because I'm not really a fan of the women I'm extra hard on them. But with her it's just a underwhelming state. Maybe it's because I still think her character is kind of out of nowhere. With her never being presented as a tough singles competitor or even giving off that she was really after the title the "I've always known I was champion material" seems left field to me.


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## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Sweggeh said:


> You should probably do some research before you talk random shit.
> 
> Almost 50% of WWE's audience in the US is ethnic (black, latino, asian, etc.) Then you count all the overseas places that WWE is extremely popular like India, the Middle East, and Africa, and it skews things even further.


Well , show the research you did - Talk the talk, now walk the walk.




Kabraxal said:


> Just to illustrate one massive fuck up by this talentless bitch....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe her ankle slamming off Alexas hip is the reason for her latest injury ?

Have watched the clip before, more I see it worse it looks, completely unprofessional and obviously very dangerous. Leaves her in the middle of the friggin ring like an apprentice rookie, and can't even be bothered to glance over her shoulder to see if Alexa has rolled into position for her.
Makes you wonder if she even got called out for this botch, probably not because "shes special".


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

Sweggeh said:


> You should probably do some research before you talk random shit.
> 
> Almost 50% of WWE's audience in the US is ethnic (black, latino, asian, etc.) Then you count all the overseas places that WWE is extremely popular like India, the Middle East, and Africa, and it skews things even further.


If you're going to call someone out for shit, use some evidence.

Nothing makes you look more stupid than calling someone out for chatting shit and not doing their research and not backing it up themselves.


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## Y2JHOLLA (Sep 26, 2016)

Because she's fucking awful. It's not exactly hard to figure out.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Seriously who cares? It's a fake title on a TV show about fake fighting. Get over it. Just try and enjoy the show.


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## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

Looks like after tonight like it or not they are right back where they started.


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## BrieMode (Feb 26, 2016)

scshaastin said:


> Looks like after tonight like it or not they are right back where they started.


with no feud option for Alexa? :sasha3 amazing..


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## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Would it be in poor taste to start a celebration thread that Naomi is no longer champion?


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## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

Isn't this Naomi's *third* injury since roughly last May? Woman is made of glass.


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## Iapetus (Jun 5, 2015)

:cry


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## JafarMustDie (Dec 18, 2014)

:reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel :reneelel


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## Hawkke (Apr 2, 2012)

For me there is but one answer, no build. You're going to make a "feel good" moment such at that, something that could have capped off a long feud with a "HISTARY" making moment then make something of it! You need to keep things "surprise" indeed, but sometimes, there are just things that demand a reason to go on.


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Impeccable Sin said:


> Would it be in poor taste to start a celebration thread that Naomi is no longer champion?


Yes.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

LOL its like if all the negative energy of this thread made a spirit bomb that fall on her.


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## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Yes.


That's unfortunate, since it's definitely something worth celebrating.


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## marshal99 (Jan 6, 2016)

Finally , time to celebrate.


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Well at least this can be put to rest. Closing words, Alexa > Naomi.


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## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

All the peeps who complained got their wish when she had to relinquish her Title. Is her injury legit? Or was it like a "HBK lost his smile" thing?


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## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

chronoxiong said:


> All the peeps who complained got their wish when she had to relinquish her Title. Is her injury legit? Or was it like a "HBK lost his smile" thing?


Am pretty sure that she injured her foot slamming it into Alexas thigh on the botched springboard.


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## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

LowRida said:


> Am pretty sure that she injured her foot slamming it into Alexas thigh on the botched springboard.


I think it's quite fitting that Naomi would lose the title because she botched her own finisher.


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## LowRida (Feb 1, 2017)

Poetic justice, indeed.
She was obviously not hobbled during the entire match, must have been the ending.
You can see where the contact was made, and its right where she is wearing the leg support thing.


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## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

Impeccable Sin said:


> I think it's quite fitting that Naomi would lose the title because she botched her own finisher.


Beat me too it. :lmao


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## marshal99 (Jan 6, 2016)

Drop her entirely from mania. With Asuka replacing naomi place in msg , asuka taking her place at mania would be great as well.


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## K-Town Punk (Feb 23, 2017)

First of all, looks matter in entertainment. They matter in Hollywood, so why shouldn't they in WWE? They matter for men and women alike, otherwise fat bellied Kassius Ohno could be as much of a star as Roman Reigns if he just keeps on working solid in the ring and acts like a nice guy towards the fans or whatever. Alexa Bliss, in that regard, has more appeal than any other diva on the main roster. In addition to that, she's worlds ahead of every other diva on the mic. I'd even go as far and say, ring skills aside, Alexa is the most exciting thing about SmackDown at the moment. Next to Baron Corbin and American Alpha the only thing about SmackDown that I can actually enjoy watching every week. To then go and interfere with her title reign just before WrestleMania while making her look like a complete loser against Naomi for the apparent reason of Orlando being Naomi's hometown is something that really upset me. I like to believe that the fans in Orlando, just like wrestling fans in general, would appreciate a great entertainer like Alexa over a replaceable diva like Naomi. We're not talking about someone with Sasha Banks level skills in the ring when we're talking about Naomi. I don't wish anything bad on the girl, don't get me wrong, but the WWE Creative certainly got what they deserved when they had to see all their WrestleMania plans for the SmackDown Women's title get flushed down the toilet just 2 days after making this decision to let Naomi take the title from Alexa.

Just cause you mentioned her in the OP: if Naomi beat a champion Becky, I wouldn't mind too much. Becky might be much better in the ring, but in terms of looks and mic work, both are not exactly championship material, so it would be on somewhat of an equal level. And to claim Kofi Kingston is better on the mic than most main eventers is more than bold, if you ask me. In my opinion, his midcard career as a singles wrestler was already much more successful than his skills should allow and after the New Day is done, the only guy with legitimate potential to achieve something bigger as a singles wrestler is Big E. It actually surprised me that his career didn't already skyrocket after he has pulled up from NXT and was placed next to back then world champion Dolph Ziggler.


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## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

marshal99 said:


> Drop her entirely from mania. With Asuka replacing naomi place in msg , asuka taking her place at mania would be great as well.


Reports I've seen state she has a similar injury to Rollins and list her as out for at least 2 months so it's very likely she will miss Mania and she herself seemed to indicate that in her promo. As for Asuka it's possible but I feel she'll be Smackdown after Mania if she goes to Smackdown which I feel is likely if she's working with Smakdown talent in MSG.


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