# The 2008 MOTYC Thread



## MrPaiMei

So far I've liked the MASADA vs. Ito Deathmatch the most so far, tbh.


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## watts63

*ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08*
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

*NJPW Wrestle Kingdom II*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakaruma ****


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## Taroostyles

I haven't seen much of anything so far.

Angle/Cage, and Nakamura/Tanahashi are the only ****+ matches I've seen so far.(All **** exactly IMO)

edit: I know most won't agree here, but Angle/Nagata also falls into the **** range for me as well.


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## Pablo Escobar

Havent seen it yet, but the most hyped match i've heard is Danielson vs Tyler Black. 

Im also curious to see Low KI vs Generico, Im sure thats ****+.


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## sirdilznik

Gail Kim vs. Awesome Kong - No DQ form Final Resolution should be close to ****. It wasn't the best match on the PPV, but I thought it should get a mention.


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## Sephiroth

Ultimate Endurance: The Age of the Fall vs. The No Remorse Corps vs. The Hangm3n Three vs. Team Work (Chicago Ridge, IL, 1/26/08) - ***** 1/4*


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## vivalabrave

Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ZERO1-MAX 1/1 ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura NJPW 1/4 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Go Shiozaki NOAH 1/20 ****
Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage TNA 1/6 ****


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## LowKi

Nobody liked this years Rumble ? I give it **** 1/4.


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## vivalabrave

Gave it ***1/2. The ring became a little full and killed the middle portion a little for me. Cena coming in saved it, though (and I don't even like him).


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## Tom Ormo

I have this year's Rumble at around *** 3/4.


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## ROH

My fav thread


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## GOD OF CUNT

So far, having seen nothing from Japan or any indies, my favourite match is HBK/Kennedy from RAW a couple weeks ago. Apparently I'm the only one who loved that match though.


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## Taroostyles

Personally, I wouldn't go any higher than ***1/2 on the Rumble.

Way too much of a clusterfuck for my liking. The eliminations didn't feel well paced to me, there was no elims for like 15 minutes and then 3 in about 30 seconds. 

I liked last year's Rumble alot more.


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## Blasko

Rumble was a solid *** 1/2. Then Cena came and made it ****.


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## sirdilznik

Taroostyles said:


> Personally, I wouldn't go any higher than ***1/2 on the Rumble.
> 
> Way too much of a clusterfuck for my liking. The eliminations didn't feel well paced to me, there was no elims for like 15 minutes and then 3 in about 30 seconds.
> 
> I liked last year's Rumble alot more.


I agree for the most part. A few things took away from the match for me: The whole Hornswoggle BS and Chavo being a participant left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The John Cena shocker was however really, really awesome and it raised the overall score in my mind to *** 3/4.


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## huthutraul

PWG All-Star Weekend 6 night 1: Low-Ki vs. Danielson for the world title, I gave ****1/4-****1/2. 

Just an amazing match live and the best I have seen so far this year


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## KingKicks

sirdilznik said:


> I agree for the most part. A few things took away from the match for me: The whole Hornswoggle BS and Chavo being a participant left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The John Cena shocker was however really, really awesome and it raised the overall score in my mind to *** 3/4.


When Chavo entered, it did make me laugh for a good while.

Hornswoggle was a complete waste of time in the Rumble.

Overall the Rumble was ***3/4 for me as well, the crowd really helped it as well because everyone (except Elijah Burke) got a good reaction which is cool to see plus Cena at the end was 1 of the best surprises WWE have done in a long time.


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## -GP-

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Rumble was a solid *** 1/2. Then Cena came and made it ****.


spot-on imo.
didn't touch last year's Rumble in terms of pure rumble match quality, but the ending did elevate it a lot


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## Tom Ormo

Yeah Cena did help this years Rumble alot although the ending of last year's Rumble with Taker and HBK going head to head was amazing.


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## Sephiroth

ROH World Title: Nigel McGuinness (c) vs. Go Shiozaki (1/20/08 Tokyo, Japan) - **** 1/2*
ROH World Title: Nigel McGuinness (c) vs. Roderick Strong (1/26/08 Chicago Ridge, IL) - ******


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## TheUnholyDragon

Nice to see this taking off.

First 08 match I've watched, so it's my de facto leader, but it's probably going to stand as a low end contender at the end of the year too.

IWGP 3rd Generation Title: Kurt Angle (c) vs. Yuji Nagata - ****1/4

Great match, built off so many things. Between Kurt's role as a dickish but talented foreigner holding their title and Nagata as the hero trying to save it, this was astounding as a base. What made it even better is Nagata's ability to negate a lot of Kurt's more annoying tendancies and create a nicely paced little match. Between selling the leg like a champ and making perfectly timed comebacks, it's no wonder Nagata is considered one of the best in the world right now. The finish was smart, making Kurt look good for getting a clean win and capitalizing on earlier work while protecting Nagata, making it look like it was only one slim mistake which brought him defeat. Good stuff all around.


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## Taroostyles

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Nice to see this taking off.
> 
> First 08 match I've watched, so it's my de facto leader, but it's probably going to stand as a low end contender at the end of the year too.
> 
> IWGP 3rd Generation Title: Kurt Angle (c) vs. Yuji Nagata - ****1/4
> 
> Great match, built off so many things. Between Kurt's role as a dickish but talented foreigner holding their title and Nagata as the hero trying to save it, this was astounding as a base. What made it even better is Nagata's ability to negate a lot of Kurt's more annoying tendancies and create a nicely paced little match. Between selling the leg like a champ and making perfectly timed comebacks, it's no wonder Nagata is considered one of the best in the world right now. The finish was smart, making Kurt look good for getting a clean win and capitalizing on earlier work while protecting Nagata, making it look like it was only one slim mistake which brought him defeat. Good stuff all around.


I agree, the match is quite unfairly hated on.


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## Saint Dick

TNA
Angle vs Cage - Final Resolution - ****
Kim vs Kong - Final Resolution - ***1/2
Cage vs Styles vs Joe - Impact - ***1/4-***1/2

WWE
Royal Rumble match - Royal Rumble - ***3/4
Hardy vs Umaga - Raw (Steel Cage) - ***1/2
Michaels vs Kennedy - Raw - ***1/2
Orton vs Hardy - Royal Rumble - ***1/4-***1/2
Edge vs Rey - Royal Rumble - ***1/4

Not all MOTYCs, just the best matches of 08 so far.


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## MrPaiMei

Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk - Somewhere between ****1/4-****3/4. Classic.


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## -Mystery-

-Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong/Final Battle 2007 (****)
-Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero vs. Morishima vs. Austin Aries/Final Battle 2007 (**** - ****1/4)
-Briscoes vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black/Final Battle 2007 (****1/4 - ****1/2)


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## KingKicks

-Mystery- said:


> -Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong/Final Battle 2007 (****)
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero vs. Morishima vs. Austin Aries/Final Battle 2007 (**** - ****1/4)
> -Briscoes vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black/Final Battle 2007 (****1/4 - ****1/2)


Exact same ratings i gave.

Those 3 matches made Final Battle for me.


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## -Mystery-

-Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi/Dragon Gate - January (****1/4 - ****1/2)


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## Taroostyles

Not quite sure of a definite rating, but Angle/Cage tonight was tremendous.


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## sirdilznik

You beat me to it Taroostyles. I think this [Angle/Cage at AAO]was the best of the Angle/Cage series despite what people think of the ending (I loved it personally). I personally give that match **** 1/4


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## Outsider 4 Life

*No Mercy '07*
Randy Orton vs Triple H - Last Man Standing **** 1/4


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## Saint Dick

^Dude, we're in 2008.


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## Alim

Cage/Angle - AAO - ****1/2
Cage/Angle - Final Resolution - ****


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## Taroostyles

Yeah, Final Resolution was good but this match was really good.

I would say ****1/4-****1/2 on first viewing, the wild ending was unbelieveable.


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## peep4life

Cage/Angle AAO ****1/4. If it didn't have run ins would have been higher.


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## KingKicks

I'm going to go with ****1/4 for Cage vs. Angle as well.

Best match they have had against each other in TNA.


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## JD13

I just watched Wrestle Kingdom 2, and im giving Tanahashi/Nakamura ****.


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## GOD OF CUNT

Damn, I need to see Angle/Cage. Tanahashi/Nakamura as well, right after I watch DG#76 for the much hyped Hulk/Shingo v SpeedMuscle match.


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## Saint Dick

Angle/Christian gets ****1/4 from me.


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## RVDECCW420

*Angle/Cage*: ****3/4

Early candidate for MOTY.

'Nuff Said.


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## Taroostyles

Jeff Hardy/HBK-Raw tonight-****

WWE MOTY so far.


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## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> Jeff Hardy/HBK-Raw tonight-****
> 
> WWE MOTY so far.


i missed it cuz i had to work . i really want to see it...

*waits for someone to upload it*


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## Derek

I have tonight's Hardy/HBK match at **** as well, at least after first viewing.

The only thing that I caught was that at the end, right after getting out of Micheals' leg lock, Hardy stops selling the leg. But, it was his second match of that night, so I didn't hold it against him too much.


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## Taroostyles

Derek said:


> I have tonight's Hardy/HBK match at **** as well, at least after first viewing.
> 
> The only thing that I caught was that at the end, right after getting out of Micheals' leg lock, Hardy stops selling the leg. But, it was his second match of that night, so I didn't hold it against him too much.


Yeah, the no selling of the leg kinda hurt but it didn't really effect the match rating that much. 

A case for ****1/4 could be made, but I'll stick to **** for now.


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## vivalabrave

Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk DG 1/15 ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage TNA 2/10 ****


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## Saint Dick

Derek said:


> I have tonight's Hardy/HBK match at **** as well, at least after first viewing.
> 
> The only thing that I caught was that at the end, right after getting out of Micheals' leg lock, Hardy stops selling the leg. But, it was his second match of that night, so I didn't hold it against him too much.


Yeah, Jeff didn't sell the leg at all after the submission. 

***3/4-**** on first viewing.


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## ROH

I have the Speed Muscle/New hazard match at like, high ***1/2. Really didn't think it was super great or anything, but saying that I'll give it a re-watch tonight.


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## sirdilznik

Jeff Hardy/HBK Raw 2/11 

***3/4 - ****

A really excellent match. The half-crab sequence was superb. I can't confidently give it **** with Jeff completely not selling the leg at the end. Really great match though.


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## GOD OF CUNT

sirdilznik said:


> Jeff Hardy/HBK Raw 2/11
> 
> ***3/4 - ****
> 
> A really excellent match. The half-crab sequence was superb. I can't confidently give it **** with Jeff completely not selling the leg at the end. Really great match though.


Pretty much my thoughts. Although I'm leaning more towards **** solid. I'll watch it again later anyway.

Should finally be able to give the SpeedMuscle/Hulk & Shingo match a watch later and hopefully Tanahashi/Nakamura.


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## Spartanlax

Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm - CHIKARA's Two Eyebrows Are Better Than One - ****

Some people will be annoyed with parts of the match (FIGHTING SPIRIT~!), but when you see how it plays out it makes sense and isn't that bad...it isn't the annoying normal indy FIGHTING SPIRIT~! at least. Either way, really great match, might go down a bit in rating upon a few more viewings but I loved it a lot after watching it twice.


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## ROH

^ Awesome, everyone was raving about that match from live reports.


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## Sephiroth

*No Way Out*
_Smackdown Elimination Chamber: The Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. Big Daddy V vs. The Great Khali_ - ***** 1/4*
_WWE Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton(c) vs. John Cena _- ******
_Raw Elimination Chamber: HHH vs. HBK vs. Umaga vs. JBL vs. Y2J vs. Jeff Hardy _- ******


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## Taroostyles

Sephiroth said:


> *No Way Out*
> _Smackdown Elimination Chamber: The Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. Big Daddy V vs. The Great Khali_ - ***** 1/4*
> _WWE Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton(c) vs. John Cena _- ******
> _Raw Elimination Chamber: HHH vs. HBK vs. Umaga vs. JBL vs. Y2J vs. Jeff Hardy _- ******


Really, all ****+?

I might have to check this show out after all, was the SD EC that good?

Meltzer said it was the 2nd worst yet.


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## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> Really, all ****+?
> 
> I might have to check this show out after all, was the SD EC that good?
> 
> Meltzer said it was the 2nd worst yet.


i liked it a lot. not as much as Caldwell from PWTorch, he gave it **** 1/2.

Cena vs. Orton puts every TNA match with a dirty finish to shame


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## Taroostyles

Sephiroth said:


> i liked it a lot. not as much as Caldwell from PWTorch, he gave it **** 1/2.
> 
> Cena vs. Orton puts every TNA match with a dirty finish to shame


It's probably a love it or hate it type of match then.

Didn't Cena/Orton have a DQ finish tho?


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## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> It's probably a love it or hate it type of match then.
> 
> Didn't Cena/Orton have a DQ finish tho?


yeah, i won't ruin it but it didn't seem like a copout or something where you'll go "ugh, seriously? couldn't they just have pinned Cena instead?"


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## Blasko

I sense a 3 way at Mania...


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## McQueen

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I sense a 3 way at Mania...


I'm guessing HHH is involved. Because god knows the world would stop turning if he wasn't anywhere near the main event of Wrestlemania.


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## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> I'm guessing HHH is involved. Because god knows the world would stop turning if he wasn't anywhere near the main event of Wrestlemania.


so...you, Blasko and HHH? that's a hott 3 way


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## McQueen

Some like it hot.....

not blasko though, he'll get friction burns.


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## sirdilznik

Smackdown EC ***1/2

Cena/Orton ***1/4

Raw EC ***3/4 - ****

IMHO


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## Blasko

McQueen said:


> Some like it hot.....
> 
> not blasko though, he'll get friction burns.


 Is it because I am a ginger? :$


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## T-C

I thought Cena/Orton was pretty good. It's placement in the card told you what was going to happen, but the finish did actually make sense. If it had a proper finish it would be my leader for match of the year so far. Cena is such a great babyface.


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## vivalabrave

Smackdown Elimination Chamber Match --- ***1/2
Orton vs. Cena --- ***1/2
Raw Elimination Chamber Match --- ****


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## KingKicks

Smackdown Elimination Chamber - ***1/4

Orton vs. Cena - ***1/2 (Finish made sense)

Raw Elimination Chamber - ****


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## Kantos

SD EC - ***1/2

Orton/Cena - ***3/4 - ****

Raw EC - ****


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## -GP-

I have the SD E.C. at ***1/2-3/4 - finishing stretch was good but until the monsters got out it wasn't much

Orton/Cena was ***3/4-**** - red hot crowd, good booking 

Raw E.C. **** maybe even ****1/4 - i marked out like hell when someone kicked out of something towards the end.


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## HeAT

*2008 MOTYC*

Jeff Hardy vs Michaels **** 
Umaga vs Jeff Hardy *** 3/4
Raw Elimination Chamber ****
Royal Rumble Match ****
Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage *** 3/4


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## Dark Church

Umaga VS Hardy was not a MOTYC. A match has to be at least **** to be a MOTYC in my opinion. Raw's ECE gets ***1/2 from me because I hated the clusterfuck of eliminations. Smackdown's gets ***3/4 and was suprisingly the better match.


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## sirdilznik

*AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW 2/17 - ****1/4*

The match had a few slower points and not every move was perfectly clean like those two are capable, but there were some sweet highlight moments, a really awesome back and forth submission sequence. AJ floating over from getting his knees up on a splash into a Kimura was awesome. AJ selling the groin :agree: The ending sequence was pretty good too. If only this match had been given like 5 more minutes...


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## Taroostyles

sirdilznik said:


> *AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW 2/17 - ****1/4*
> 
> The match had a few slower points and not every move was perfectly clean like those two are capable, but there were some sweet highlight moments, a really awesome back and forth submission sequence. AJ floating over from getting his knees up on a splash into a Kimura was awesome. AJ selling the groin :agree: The ending sequence was pretty good too. If only this match had been given like 5 more minutes...


Is this in the multimedia section anywhere?


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## sirdilznik

Taroostyles said:


> Is this in the multimedia section anywhere?


Not that I can see, yet. Angle/Nakamura was ***3/4 IMHO BTW. Great match. Too short, too many ankle locks.


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## odm

just watched the tanahashi/aj match. it was probably MOTN and could be considered a MOTY candidate up to this point.


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## Taroostyles

odm said:


> just watched the tanahashi/aj match. it was probably MOTN and could be considered a MOTY candidate up to this point.


Anywhere I can find it?


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## odm

Taroostyles said:


> Anywhere I can find it?


i uploaded it to the multimedia section  enjoy


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## Taroostyles

Styles/Tanahashi-**** on 1st viewing.

So much better than their 1st match, no Shannon Moore this time. lol

You can tell that these 2 could still have even better matches under the right circumstances.

So far MOTYC I've seen

Angle/Cage-TNA-Against All Odds-****1/4
Angle/Nagata-NJPW-Wrestle Kingdom-****1/4
Nakamura/Tanahashi-NJPW-Wrestle Kingdom-****
Hardy/HBK-WWE-RAW-****
Styles/Tanahashi-NJPW-2/17-****
Angle/Cage-TNA-Final Resolution-****

Angle's not having a bad year for somebody who's spose to be washed up, so far anyway. 

This is only what I've seen, I'm sure there's much more out there.


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## Blasko

Snitsky vs. Jeff Hardy from Raw tonight- 1/2*

Currently second worse match I've seen this year. 

Rellik/Young gets first at 1/4*


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## Taroostyles

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Snitsky vs. Jeff Hardy from Raw tonight- 1/2*
> 
> Currently second worse match I've seen this year.
> 
> Rellik/Young gets first at 1/4*


Oh yeah, Snitsky/Hardy was unbearable.

I don't know why they dragged it out like they did.


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## Blasko

It should have been like Val/Kennedy. Short, Sweet, Simple. 

Not filled with botches and having to see Snitsky 5+ minutes on my TV.


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## - Styles -

Aj Styles Tanahashi was a solid **** The lack of DW marking out during Aj's Pele made me sad though :sad:

It was nice seeing him in a long match, i don't remember the last time he's had a 15+ minute match...

Anyone know what Tanahashi said to Aj at the end?


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## Sephiroth

it could have at least been Jeff vs. Spanky

the crowd would have loved it and Jeff would have still shown he can beat other highflyers (i mean, who has he beaten lately that is?). perfect setup to show him being in MITB isn't a step down...which, imo, is at this point.


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## Blasko

Spanky has been putting on very fun squashes recently, but Jeff's 'selling' would make the match either good or 'meh'.


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## Taroostyles

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> It should have been like Val/Kennedy. Short, Sweet, Simple.
> 
> Not filled with botches and having to see Snitsky 5+ minutes on my TV.


I kinda laughed when I saw the 2 MITB qualifiers, I thought these were gonna be like competitive matches kinda, and we get Snitsky/Val Venis as the opponents respectively.

Not even Hardy could stop the dead crowd on that one, Snitsky does it to em every time.


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## Blasko

Even JR/Kang were dead f or that match. I found it funny when JR tried to cover for Jeff's Botch of the Wind. 

He literally just grazed him with his foot.


----------



## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> I kinda laughed when I saw the 2 MITB qualifiers, I thought these were gonna be like competitive matches kinda, and we get Snitsky/Val Venis as the opponents respectively.


Venis/Kennedy is a suitable qualifier, but i agree. they are pretty laughable. hopefully we can get some quality qualifying matches like Nitro vs. Punk, Kennedy vs. Sabu, Hardy vs. Mercury, Edge vs. RVD, Jeff vs. Shelton. i can't remember if all of them were good, but at least each competitor was credible and you could see either one winning.


----------



## Halifax

My favorite matches so far

Masato Tanaka Vs Daisuke Sekimoto (ZERO1-MAX) - moty in my opinion so far
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Shinsuke Nakamura (New Japan)
Motor City Machine Guns Vs Dick Togo & Ikuto Hidaka (Zero1-Max)
Kurt Angle Vs Yuji Nagata (New Japan)
Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino Vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk (Dragon Gate) 
Nigel McGuinness Vs Go Shiozaki (NOAH)
Kurt Angle Vs Nakamura (New Jaoan)
Kurt Angle Vs AJ Styles (TNA, AAO)


----------



## F5uits

I've barely actually seen any matches from 2008 yet but I should be catching up soon. Anyone see the 2/17 NJPW PPV?


----------



## ROH

Can we stop posting like, ***1/4 matches here? I know SOME have ratings like that as ACTUAL MOTYC range, but looking at whose posted them it's not the case here. Just clogs things up a bit.


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## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> Can we stop posting like, ***1/4 matches here? I know SOME have ratings like that as ACTUAL MOTYC range, but looking at whose posted them it's not the case here. Just clogs things up a bit.


Blasko is an attention whore :no:


----------



## T-C

ROH said:


> Can we stop posting like, ***1/4 matches here? I know SOME have ratings like that as ACTUAL MOTYC range, but looking at whose posted them it's not the case here. Just clogs things up a bit.


Agreed totally. The way things are going this thread will be huge and it will be hard to gain much from it.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Angle/Christian Cage, Final Resolution- ****.

Angle/Christian Cage, Against All Odds- **** 1/4.

Raw's Elimination Chamber, No Way Out- **** 1/4.


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> Blasko is an attention whore :no:


 Darn you, Sephy.... :side:


----------



## -GP-

AjStyles>GOD said:


> Aj Styles Tanahashi was a solid **** The lack of DW marking out during Aj's Pele made me sad though :sad:


It felt really weird to be honest... :no: Pele needs DW!

I'd mark for the sheer awesomness of the Japanese guys going mental over a Tanahashi "Texas Cloverhorld-o" only for AJ to somehow counter into a Pele and DW to climb the announce table screaming "PELE!! PELE!!!!11!!" and bowl them over 

Where was i...?

Oh yeah, the match.

**** maybe up to ****1/4 - AJ's trash talking was great even though his after-match promo thingy was kinda weird for lack of a better word


----------



## T-C

NOAH, 2/21/08

Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tamon Honda & Shuhei Taniguchi 

Best 6 man I have seen in a looooong time. Maru and Sugi were awesome as the heelish dicks. It built Mori/Kobashi brilliantly as a match I really want to see now. Put Taniguchi over like a motherfucker and Honda as the old douche in a singlet who has his friend's back was good times.

This was booked better than the whole of 2007 in NOAH. Great stuff.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - **** 1/2 - perfect face heel stuff. Some better Dragon selling and character work from being more!

Aries vs. Go - **** 1/4- Damn the striking vs. counters in this were golden. A slow middle hurts but not much since it fit.

Stevens vs. Strong vs. Necro - Brutality, sheer brutality, but with the story of Necro being deadly and coming between the two longtime rivals.

Go vs. Generico - **** - There is no better underdog at taking a beating than Go.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - **** 1/2 - perfect face heel stuff. Some better Dragon selling and character work from being more!



please tell me that the crowd was 100% Dragon and there were "boo/yay" crowd interactions during slaps and punches and elbows and european uppercuts


----------



## PulseGlazer

It was 95% Dragon cheers, but I have a hard time wrapping my ahead around Danielson, altruistic face.


----------



## -Mystery-

-Kevin Steen vs. Necro Butcher/Proving Ground (***3/4 - ****)


----------



## Saint Dick

Angle/Christian - Against All Odds - ****1/4
Raw's Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****
Angle/Christian - Final Resolution - ****
HBK/Hardy - Raw - ***3/4


----------



## T-C

What's the point in giving star ratings if you don't justify what you think was good about the match, or tell people why they should watch it and what they should look out for?


----------



## Spartanlax

Mark's post- ***1/4, not long enough to be anything great

There ya go, explainations!


----------



## Saint Dick

T-C said:


> What's the point in giving star ratings if you don't justify what you think was good about the match, or tell people why they should watch it and what they should look out for?


To state which matches I think are MOTYCs maybe?


----------



## ADN

Angle/Cage-Against All Odds-****1/4
Raw Elimination Chamber-No Way Out-****1/4


----------



## PulseGlazer

T-C said:


> What's the point in giving star ratings if you don't justify what you think was good about the match, or tell people why they should watch it and what they should look out for?


So, you're saying you love me.


----------



## Blasko

Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho- ****. 

Fun back and forth action from both sides, fans were lively. Good stuff.


----------



## Taroostyles

I didn't think it was quite that good, ***1/2 or so IMO.

Hardy/HBK from a few weeks back was much better.


----------



## Blasko

*** 3/4, nothing lower.


----------



## Spartanlax

I'd go with ***1/2 on it TBH.


----------



## -Mystery-

Goddamn Call of Duty 4. Raw usually doesn't put out good matches so I decided to play COD instead. Hardy/Jericho is massively interesting to me. I'll have to check YouTube tomorrow for it.


----------



## bstaple12

I'd go ***3/4 but I hate those stupid commercial breaks. Takes away from the match.


----------



## sirdilznik

I have to agree with the ***1/2 crowd on Hardy/Y2J. That match was really fun but it's not going to leave any lasting impression on me,


----------



## Blasko

-Mystery- said:


> Goddamn Call of Duty 4. Raw usually doesn't put out good matches so I decided to play COD instead. Hardy/Jericho is massively interesting to me. I'll have to check YouTube tomorrow for it.


 Road to Mania usually brings the best out of raw, always one *** 1/2 + match per show.


----------



## Derek

I would give the match ***3/4.

Fans were lively when they needed to be, and the match kept a very good pace.


----------



## casper-21

1. MASATO TANAKA vs DAISUKE SEKIMOTO - Zero-1 Genesis (Wht)
2. SHINGO TAKAGI & BxB HULK vs NARUKI DOI & MASATO YOSHINO - Dragon Gate (GHC jr tag) 
3. HIROSHI TANAHASHI vs SHINSUKE NAKAMURA - Njpw (Iwgp)
4. ALEX SHELLEY & CHRIS SABIN vs IKUTO HIDAKA & DICK TOGO - Zero-1 Genesis (I jr tag)


----------



## T-C

PulseGlazer said:


> So, you're saying you love me.


Much love.



Spartanlax said:


> Mark's post- ***1/4, not long enough to be anything great
> 
> There ya go, explainations!


I'd agree.

I thought the psychology behind it was good, but i just didn't bring the much needed werkrate.


----------



## ROH

Ownage™ said:


> To state which matches I think are MOTYCs maybe?


Say *why* you think they're MOTYCs.


----------



## -Mystery-

ROH said:


> Say *why* you think they're MOTYCs.


Because they are good?


----------



## T-C

-Mystery- said:


> Because they are good?


Anything over 3 stars is supposed to be good.

In order to be Match of the Year Candidates they should have something special.

I just don't see what the point in nominating something is if you don't explain why it is a cut above the rest and what you liked about it.


----------



## Saint Dick

ROH said:


> Say *why* you think they're MOTYCs.


Nah, I don't really feel like. If I'm engaged in a discussion about the match then fine.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Jericho/Hardy is around ***1/2 for me, but unless it's a ****+ it shouldn't be considered a MOTY contender.


----------



## Taroostyles

I think just putting down a rating for a MOTYC is fine, just to state that you think it's a MOTYC.(****+)

If someone asked me to elaborate on a particular match or a discussion was brought up, I would be glad to oblige them.


----------



## Saint Dick

Taroostyles said:


> I think just putting down a rating for a MOTYC is fine, just to state that you think it's a MOTYC.(****+)
> 
> If someone asked me to elaborate on a particular match or a discussion was brought up, I would be glad to oblige them.


Pretty much my opinion as well.

What do you guys think about the Umaga/Hardy cage match? I'm asking this because Meltzer gave it ****, as did some dude from the Torch (can't remember if it was Caldwell or Keller) and personally I don't think it deserves that high a rating. The Whisper in the Wind off the top was sick but even so I wouldn't go higher than ***1/2 on this one.

Thoughts?


----------



## -Mystery-

Taroostyles said:


> I think just putting down a rating for a MOTYC is fine, just to state that you think it's a MOTYC.(****+)
> 
> If someone asked me to elaborate on a particular match or a discussion was brought up, I would be glad to oblige them.


My thoughts exactly. I'm not obligated to give anyone anything so get the fuck off my back (and Ownage's) for not typing up some small review. If you want to know why I thought it was good, just ask.


----------



## Taroostyles

I didn't think it was that good when I watched it live, I remember enjoying it but not thinking it was anything over the top.

I think I need to watch it again for a definite rating.


----------



## T-C

Why do people rate the Angle matches so highly? I don't get it.

Angle just seems like a broken down old fossil trying to work matches exactly the same way as he did when he was actually mobile and in his prime.

I hate the style Angle works personally, mainly because it just seems stupid to me that every main event match that he has has to end with a million masturbatory reversals into ankle locks, the second this happens I zone out and lose interest completely. Not that the rest of his work compells me anyway, which tends to consist of suplexes which mean nothing anymore due to him just throwing them about, but his finshing stretches make me hate wrestling.


----------



## vivalabrave

Just watched all these matches in the past couple hours:

Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tamon Honda & Shuhei Taniguchi NOAH 2/21 ****1/4 (My new MOTY so far. I haven't been this vocal for a match in a long time. If Kobashi and Morishima meet this year, I think it could end up in the top 10 or maybe top 5 MOTY. Whew...I'm tired now...)

Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ROH 1/11 ****1/4

AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW 2/17 ****

Motor City Machine Guns vs. Dick Togo & Hidaka Ikuto ZERO1-MAX 1/1 **** 

Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 2/11 ****


----------



## Saint Dick

I had HBK/Hardy at **** initially but I dropped it down to ***3/4. It was an excellent match, especially for free TV, but Hardy no-selling the leg at the end was a bad mistake on his part and some of the offense wasn't as clean as it could've been. 

That said, Jeff is having a hell of a year so far.

vs HBK - ***3/4
vs Y2J - ***1/2
vs Umaga - ***1/2

Too bad his match with Orton didn't live up to expectations.


----------



## Taroostyles

T-C said:


> Why do people rate the Angle matches so highly? I don't get it.
> 
> Angle just seems like a broken down old fossil trying to work matches exactly the same way as he did when he was actually mobile and in his prime.
> 
> I hate the style Angle works personally, mainly because it just seems stupid to me that every main event match that he has has to end with a million masturbatory reversals into ankle locks, the second this happens I zone out and lose interest completely. Not that the rest of his work compells me anyway, which tends to consist of suplexes which mean nothing anymore due to him just throwing them about, but his finshing stretches make me hate wrestling.


Both of his matches with Cage and his match with Nagata were great back and forth contests IMO.

He may not be quite as good as he was in the past, but he's still very competent in the ring when given a chance.

I guess some people just don't like his styles at this point, I still find his matches rather enjoyable.

Guess it's just personal preference.


----------



## T-C

Taroostyles said:


> Both of his matches with Cage and his match with Nagata were great back and forth contests IMO.
> 
> He may not be quite as good as he was in the past, but he's still very competent in the ring when given a chance.
> 
> I guess some people just don't like his styles at this point, I still find his matches rather enjoyable.
> 
> Guess it's just personal preference.


Maybe it is just that, personal preference.

Do you like his finishing stretches with all finisher reversals?


----------



## peep4life

T-C said:


> Maybe it is just that, personal preference.
> 
> Do you like his finishing stretches with all finisher reversals?


I know its predictable, but yes I do. I thought Christian did some pretty unique reversals, in their last match and it made it seem that anyone could win at any minute. 
Yes, its overkill at times, and Angle hasn't been the same in years, but he is still a solid wrestler in my book, not one of the best, but still entertaining enough.


----------



## sirdilznik

T-C said:


> Maybe it is just that, person preference.
> 
> Do you like his finishing stretches with all finisher reversals?


I thoroughly enjoy Angle matches for usually 95% of the match. Then he starts with the ankle locks over and over. If he switched his finishing routine up from Olympic Slam > Ankle Lock > Missed Moonsault > Ankle Lock > Ankle lock (with grapevine) to something else once in a while I would enjoy his matches more. I still think he puts on really great matches though. His mat work is amazing.


----------



## peep4life

sirdilznik said:


> I thoroughly enjoy Angle matches for usually 95% of the match. Then he starts with the ankle locks over and over. If he switched his finishing routine up from Olympic Slam > Ankle Lock > Missed Moonsault > Ankle Lock > Ankle lock (with grapevine) to something else once in a while I would enjoy his matches more. I still think he puts on really great matches though. His mat work is amazing.


The same goes for HBK, who uses the same finishing sequence in all of his matches, but the matches are still great. As long as the match as a whole is good, its all that matters. It makes it exciting, because you know the finish is coming, just like you know an Angle match isn't over until he pulls his straps down.


----------



## T-C

peep4life said:


> The same goes for HBK, who uses the same finishing sequence in all of his matches, but the matches are still great. As long as the match as a whole is good, its all that matters. It makes it exciting, because you know the finish is coming, just like you know an Angle match isn't over until he pulls his straps down.


I tend to think that Michaels is overrated aswell. But he puts so much more thought into his matches than Angle, and does the little things much better to draw you in and get you involved in it.


----------



## Taroostyles

T-C said:


> Maybe it is just that, personal preference.
> 
> Do you like his finishing stretches with all finisher reversals?


Well, it depends on a match by match basis.

I thought the counter/reversals in the Angle/Cage at AAO were very well done and I had know idea how that match would finish.

Without the run in ending, I could have seen myself giving that match atleast ****1/2 and maybe even higher.

In the Nagata match, it was done a little bit to overkill but I still really enjoyed the match.

I could see how it bothers some people, I guess it just doesn't bother me as much.

Alot of people had that problem with the Angle/HBK matches(besides the WM one) with the reversals and counter and how they were done, etc.


----------



## PulseGlazer

The finishing sequence in HBK matches don't bother me in that the sequence tends to build logically to Sweet Chin Music. For Kurt, a match of back work tends to end in an Ankle Lock with the backwork meaning nothing, which cheapens everything before it.


----------



## Sephiroth

Kurt Angle being Kurt Angle cheapens anything...


----------



## Taroostyles

PulseGlazer said:


> The finishing sequence in HBK matches don't bother me in that the sequence tends to build logically to Sweet Chin Music. For Kurt, a match of back work tends to end in an Ankle Lock with the backwork meaning nothing, which cheapens everything before it.


So your saying because a sequence of moves/maneuvers lead to another particular move(The Ankle Lock in this case), that it makes the rest of the sequence before it less meaningful?

But, a sequence of moves that leads to another particular move(Sweet Chin Music in this other case), makes that sequence more meaningful?

I don't see how that's true, unless you just think Sweet Chin Music is a "cooler" move or something like that.

What's so illogical about a guy(Kurt Angle) using his finishing maneuver after a sequence like that?

I spose you could say it's too predictable, but alot of guys do the same thing thruout the wrestling industry.

I think it has to be judged on a match by match basis, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> So your saying because a sequence of moves/maneuvers lead to another particular move(The Ankle Lock in this case), that it makes the rest of the sequence before it less meaningful?
> 
> But, a sequence of moves that leads to another particular move(Sweet Chin Music in this other case), makes that sequence more meaningful?
> 
> I don't see how that's true, unless you just think Sweet Chin Music is a "cooler" move or something like that.
> 
> What's so illogical about a guy(Kurt Angle) using his finishing maneuver after a sequence like that?
> 
> I spose you could say it's too predictable, but alot of guys do the same thing thruout the wrestling industry.
> 
> I think it has to be judged on a match by match basis, but that's just my opinion.


You really missed the point. It's because Angle spends the match working the back to finish with a leg move. 

HBK is both far more likely to finish with something else, like a roll up or whatever, and more likely to work moves that would soften someone up for a knockout blow like Sweet Chin Music.


----------



## T-C

Taroostyles said:


> So your saying because a sequence of moves/maneuvers lead to another particular move(The Ankle Lock in this case), that it makes the rest of the sequence before it less meaningful?
> 
> But, a sequence of moves that leads to another particular move(Sweet Chin Music in this other case), makes that sequence more meaningful?
> 
> I don't see how that's true, unless you just think Sweet Chin Music is a "cooler" move or something like that.
> 
> What's so illogical about a guy(Kurt Angle) using his finishing maneuver after a sequence like that?
> 
> I spose you could say it's too predictable, but alot of guys do the same thing thruout the wrestling industry.
> 
> I think it has to be judged on a match by match basis, but that's just my opinion.


What I think he is saying is that the main body of Angle matches doesn't build to the finish at all. He does a load of suplexes, but no leg work whatsoever to build to his finish which is an ankle lock. Which makes the main body of the match pretty meaningless in regards to the finish.

Edit - The man himself beat me to it.


----------



## Taroostyles

PulseGlazer said:


> You really missed the point. It's because Angle spends the match working the back to finish with a leg move.
> 
> HBK is both far more likely to finish with something else, like a roll up or whatever, and more likely to work moves that would soften someone up for a knockout blow like Sweet Chin Music.


Oh my mistake bro, when you said "back work" I thought you meant like the work before the finish and not the actual back like the body part.

I see what you mean there, but there are times when he does work the leg before the Ankle Lock alot.

His match with Abyss is a great example, really good psychology in that match and he works Abyss's leg the whole match before finally getting the Ankle Lock and forcing him to tap.


----------



## sirdilznik

PulseGlazer said:


> You really missed the point. It's because Angle spends the match working the back to finish with a leg move.
> 
> HBK is both far more likely to finish with something else, like a roll up or whatever, *and more likely to work moves that would soften someone up for a knockout blow like Sweet Chin Music*.


How do you "soften someone up" for Sweet Chin Music? It's a straight up side kick. A knockout blow. Whether you suplex a guy 12 times, work his leg for 10 minutes, or do nothing at all, it will have no bearing on how effective getting kicked in the face will be. The superkick is a strong enough blow that it will KTFO a gut without having to deliver previous blows. Want proof? Guys get laid out just as long getting superkicked by HBK whether it's at the beginning of a match, after 10 minutes, or not in a match at all, but during a promo or something. The only thing that has any bearing on the superkick is getting the guy groggy so when he gets up he doesn't see the kick coming, which makes it more likely to hit, but the move works just as well when HBK pulls it out of nowhere (like Randy with the RKO).

If anything Kurt does more to set up the Ankle Lock. He is wearing the opponent down as a whole so that when he does put the Ankle Lock on they are too tired or don't have the strength to reverse it or pull themselves to the ropes (thus the move failing the first two times but working the third time). I do agree that it would make it better if he worked a Spinning Toe Hold for a bit during the match, or stomped the leg a bit.


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> How do you "soften someone up" for Sweet Chin Music? It's a straight up side kick. A knockout blow. Whether you suplex a guy 12 times, work his leg for 10 minutes, or do nothing at all, it will have no bearing on how effective getting kicked in the face will be. The superkick is a strong enough blow that it will KTFO a gut without having to deliver previous blows. Want proof? Guys get laid out just as long getting superkicked by HBK whether it's at the beginning of a match, after 10 minutes, or not in a match at all, but during a promo or something. The only thing that has any bearing on the superkick is getting the guy groggy so when he gets up he doesn't see the kick coming, which makes it more likely to hit, but the move works just as well when HBK pulls it out of nowhere (like Randy with the RKO).
> 
> If anything Kurt does more to set up the Ankle Lock. He is wearing the opponent down as a whole so that when he does put the Ankle Lock on they are too tired or don't have the strength to reverse it or pull themselves to the ropes (thus the move failing the first two times but working the third time). I do agree that it would make it better if he worked a Spinning Toe Hold for a bit during the match, or stomped the leg a bit.


The knockout blow is important sure, but in wrestling terms at the least, there's a lot you can do to set up a knockout. Usually guys with big KO moves either try and work the head or do "loss of breathe moves" with the supposed logic that if you get caught while breathing hard you're more likely to black out.


----------



## sirdilznik

PulseGlazer said:


> The knockout blow is important sure, but in wrestling terms at the least, there's a lot you can do to set up a knockout. Usually guys with big KO moves either try and work the head or do "loss of breathe moves" with the supposed logic that if you get caught while breathing hard you're more likely to black out.


I get that, and I agree that repeated blows to the head, pile drivers, DDTs, etc... make it look good working the head. However HBK kills that theory whenever he Superkicks someone out of nowhere (like in an interview, contract signing, etc) and they lay there unconscious for an eternity. Kind of makes any "set up" seem worthless when he can KTFO anyone just like that. I guess I'm just over-analyzing (sorry).

I completely agree that it would be good for Angle to work the leg more often than he does or finish with something else (he never even wins with the Olympic Slam anymore). I even tried to satrt a "No More Ankle Locks clap, clap, clap clap clap" chant at the house show in Westbury. No one bought it though *sigh*


----------



## McQueen

Am I the only one who thought Angle/Nagata was at best average? I didn't get into it at all. ** 1/2 from me seriously.

I haven't seen anything MOTYC yet but I downloaded that supposedly wonderful NOAH 6 man last night. Really the only thing else this year i've watched besides Angle/Nagata was Kensuke/Tenryu/Suzuki/Takayama vs Kawada/Yoshie/Ohtani/Saito from K. Office but I certainly don't think its gonna be the best match this year, I just enjoyed it alot.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

sirdilznik said:


> *I completely agree that it would be good for Angle to work the leg more often than he does or finish with something else (he never even wins with the Olympic Slam anymore).* I even tried to satrt a "No More Ankle Locks clap, clap, clap clap clap" chant at the house show in Westbury. No one bought it though *sigh*


Say what? Angle beat Booker with the Olympic Slam just last week on Impact. He's been winning with it in TNA for a good while.

Giving my little two cents in this. I can see where the logic comes from of Angle working on the leg more on opponents to build his submission finisher. But I honestly never believed such a thing was ever needed for Kurt's Ankle Lock. I mean when I looked at most of his career when he used it, I always thought the move was done more as a random hold that wasn't ever suppose to fit his moveset of what he was doing (like focusing on the Slam). It's the move that Angle can get you out of nowhere for the most part and he only exactly attacks the legs when having frustration like moment or taking a big man down in my view of it.


----------



## T-C

McQueen said:


> Am I the only one who thought Angle/Nagata was at best average? I didn't get into it at all. ** 1/2 from me seriously.


I'm with you. First Angle main event match that I've watched since the Joe ones, and it did nothing to make me want to watch him again.


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> I get that, and I agree that repeated blows to the head, pile drivers, DDTs, etc... make it look good working the head. However HBK kills that theory whenever he Superkicks someone out of nowhere (like in an interview, contract signing, etc) and they lay there unconscious for an eternity. Kind of makes any "set up" seem worthless when he can KTFO anyone just like that. I guess I'm just over-analyzing (sorry).
> 
> I completely agree that it would be good for Angle to work the leg more often than he does or finish with something else (he never even wins with the Olympic Slam anymore). I even tried to satrt a "No More Ankle Locks clap, clap, clap clap clap" chant at the house show in Westbury. No one bought it though *sigh*


That's most finishers and in character context more than match context. I tend to agree, but it's more of a booking problem.

The ankle lock would work much more effectively from a storyline perspective if it were either instant kill or set up by the goddamn Ankle lock 4 other times. It's the most overexposed finisher in North America.


----------



## sirdilznik

AngleIsWrestling said:


> Say what? Angle beat Booker with the Olympic Slam just last week on Impact. He's been winning with it in TNA for a good while.


/facepalm

My bad. I can't believe I forgot that, I mean it just happened. Doh!

I guess what I should have said is that he just doesn't seem to win the big matches with the Olympic Slam anymore. Years ago it was close to 50/50 on whether he would win by Ankle Lock or Olympic Slam. These days it seems more like 85/15 Lock/Slam. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

[tangent]One of the things I used to love about Benoit was his variety of finishers. He won with the Crossface, He won with the Headbutt, He won with the Sharpshooter (I think if you're Canadian you are automatically entitled to get like a half dozen Sharpshooter wins), He even (rarely) won with the Triple Germans. Same thing with Kobashi. He could win with the Lariat, enough Half-Nelson Suplexes, the Moonsault, the Brainbuster, and if he broke out the Burning Hammer it was all over for sure.[/tangent] 

I guess I wish Kurt had another finisher. The Super Olympic Slam off the second rope is sweet but that's just a beefed up Olympic Slam. Too bad he's not Canadian. Then he could adopt the Sharpshooter. Maybe some kind of Backbreaker variation?


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

As relates to Angle, I think he's fine when he has an opponent who works well around his style. Nagata and Christian provided those imo.

The Ankle Lock has been built as an incredibly painful hold on its own, so I can see how it requires little build.

As relates to SCM...the effectiveness has actually been shown to vary depending on how well he hits it. I've seen guys start moving seconds later or staying down for minutes. Which makes perfect sense.

As relates to explaining ratings...I've been on about that for more than a year and it's never done anything. Good to see others reflecting my thoughts though.


----------



## casper-21

Add:

ROH Tag Title Match - Ultimate Endurance (ROH proving Ground)

New Hazard vs Typhoon 8 men tag match - 2/3 falls (Dragon Gate 22.01.08)


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> /facepalm
> 
> My bad. I can't believe I forgot that, I mean it just happened. Doh!
> 
> I guess what I should have said is that he just doesn't seem to win the big matches with the Olympic Slam anymore. Years ago it was close to 50/50 on whether he would win by Ankle Lock or Olympic Slam. These days it seems more like 85/15 Lock/Slam. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong.
> 
> [tangent]One of the things I used to love about Benoit was his variety of finishers. He won with the Crossface, He won with the Headbutt, He won with the Sharpshooter (I think if you're Canadian you are automatically entitled to get like a half dozen Sharpshooter wins), He even (rarely) won with the Triple Germans. Same thing with Kobashi. He could win with the Lariat, enough Half-Nelson Suplexes, the Moonsault, the Brainbuster, and if he broke out the Burning Hammer it was all over for sure.[/tangent]
> 
> I guess I wish Kurt had another finisher. The Super Olympic Slam off the second rope is sweet but that's just a beefed up Olympic Slam. Too bad he's not Canadian. Then he could adopt the Sharpshooter. Maybe some kind of Backbreaker variation?



The ankle lock is more incredibly inneffective but easy to hook in than deadly. He does it four times! No other finisher is applied nearly that much.

Multiple finishers are nice, but ultimately unneccessary if you're good enough, which Angle isn't. He was for like three years and even then he was a bit over-rated.


----------



## sirdilznik

PulseGlazer said:


> The ankle lock is more incredibly inneffective but easy to hook in than deadly. He does it four times! No other finisher is applied nearly that much.


That part is at least somewhat realistic. Being a big MMA fan I know that moves like the Ankle Lock or a Heel Hook where you twist the foot are mostly just pain maneuvers. That's not to say that you couldn't injure someone with it, but it's not nearly as likely as some other submissions like for example an Armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) or a Knee Bar. With those last 2 submissions where you put the pressure directly against a joint, if you don't get out of it quickly, or tap, you can very easily get your tendons torn or a limb snapped (Angle's "Tap or Snap" motto would apply to these moves much better). With twisting type maneuvers it's usually more a matter of how much pain can you tolerate (I remember a classic MMA fight in Pride between Ken Shamrock and Don Frye where they both had each other in Heel Hooks for seemingly an eternity). It's very rare that you see someone tap quickly to a move like that unless they are new to the ground game and panic.

Again I'm over analyzing. 

Edit: Sorry for going off topic so much


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> That part is at least somewhat realistic. Being a big MMA fan I know that moves like the Ankle Lock or a Heel Hook where you twist the foot are mostly just pain maneuvers. That's not to say that you couldn't injure someone with it, but it's not nearly as likely as some other submissions like for example an Armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) or a Knee Bar. With those last 2 submissions where you put the pressure directly against a joint, if you don't get out of it quickly, or tap, you can very easily get your tendons torn or a limb snapped (Angle's "Tap or Snap" motto would apply to these moves much better). With twisting type maneuvers it's usually more a matter of how much pain can you tolerate (I remember a classic MMA fight in Pride between Ken Shamrock and Don Frye where they both had each other in Heel Hooks for seemingly an eternity). It's very rare that you see someone tap quickly to a move like that unless they are new to the ground game and panic.
> 
> Again I'm over analyzing.
> 
> Edit: Sorry for going off topic so much


Realism is nice, but in wrestling storytelling and drama in the ring reign supreme.


----------



## sirdilznik

PulseGlazer said:


> Realism is nice, but in wrestling storytelling and drama in the ring reign supreme.


Agreed 1000%


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****

From Raw, though I can't recall the date.

This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.


----------



## Sephiroth

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
> 
> From Raw, though I can't recall the date.
> 
> This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.


i believe that was the Raw before No Way Out.


----------



## Dark Church

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
> 
> From Raw, though I can't recall the date.
> 
> This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. *He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though*, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.


I don't think so because it has worked well for Cena. As for the match I enjoyed it quite a bit. In fact it has been one of my favorite Hardy matches during his recent push.


----------



## Y²

I think Briscoe's vs Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura from 3/2/08 is a candidate, pretty solid match with a truely awesome finish.


----------



## T-C

The finish was out of this world but the rest of the match didn't do much for me.


----------



## Spartanlax

I'm watching the match soon- I keep hearing the finish is amazing. I'm really excited to see it. But first, Morishima/Misawa!


----------



## Mr. Reinheimer

Other than the Royal Rumble, I haven't seen any matches that could be classed as early MOTYC's. I thought that Hardy vs. Michaels; Michaels vs. Kennedy III; and Hardy vs. Umaga were all great, but we'll see better in the WWE. None of those matches would have been any higher than a ***3/4 in my book.


----------



## ROH

Incognito, El Pantera and Lince Dorado vs Mike Quackenbush, Shane Storm and Skayde - CHIKARA King of Trios 2008 Night 3 - *****1/2*

I'll elaborate in my huge review of the whole weekend.


----------



## watts63

Besides the last post is there been any other MOTYCs since mid febraury?


----------



## PulseGlazer

Yes, Morishima-Misawa and Briscoes vs. Sugifuji


----------



## vivalabrave

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima NOAH 3/2 ****1/2 (Might be overating it but I obviously loved it. Had that "big match feel" that very few matches have now a days. My MOTY so far.)

The Briscoes vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura NOAH 3/2 ****

Tanahashi & Mutoh vs. Kawada & Kea AJPW 3/1 ***3/4 (not **** but I've seen some people call it MOTY so far so I thought I'd throw in the rating.)


----------



## -GP-

Misawa-Morishima 2/3/08 - feels like ****1/4 is a bit low, but ****1/2 might be a bit much. not sure.

Felt like a really big deal, crowd was red hot, Shima did a suicida...really good match


----------



## McQueen

I'd give Shima/Misawa a **** 1/4 myself as well and is my current MOTYC. But given I've seen like 4 matches from 2008 so far thats not saying much.


----------



## T-C

Misawa was so good in this match. He did everything to make Morishima look fantastic.

Very simple story telling done very well. Great match.

People need to be checking out the Kings Of Wrestling vs Taue/Izu from this show too. Really fun and I preferred it to the Marufuji/Sug tag.


----------



## vivalabrave

T-C said:


> People need to be checking out the Kings Of Wrestling vs Taue/Izu from this show too. Really fun and I preferred it to the Marufuji/Sug tag.


Good to know. I just downloaded it last night.


----------



## -GP-

Kings vs Taue/Izu was tons of fun tbh, but nothing too special. They weren't going for anything more anyway really, just a light comedy match. Nothing wrong with that


----------



## McQueen

Don't ever say 'nothing special' and Taue in the same sentence again! 

Must download match....


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> Don't ever say 'nothing special' and Taue in the same sentence again!


i don't know what i was thinking...sorry :$


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> Don't ever say 'nothing special' and Taue in the same sentence again!
> 
> Must download match....


You just used nothing special and Taue in the same sentence... Oh crap! So did I!


----------



## T-C

No way am I ever going to fall for that trap.


----------



## Sephiroth

there's nothing special about Chris Hero...unless he's facing Akira Taue.

i just broke the rule


----------



## WillTheBloody

Seriously, the best part of the match was the fact that Claudio and Hero were both over. The crowd loved Hero's antics and dug Double C's moveset (especially the Giant Swing, which was epic). Hope they get booked more in the future.


----------



## Taroostyles

Kurt Angle/Christian Cage-TNA-Impact 3/6-Six Sides Of Steel-around ****(maybe slightly higher on another viewing)

Great storytelling and a solid pace with an awesome finish.(Much better finish then there 1st 2 matches)

Best match on Impact in atleast a few months. Angle/Cage's 3rd ****+ match this year IMO, awesome chemistry between these two.


----------



## Saint Dick

Christian and Angle have been on fire so far in 08. I didn't watch Impact tonight but if the 6SoS match is on the level of their two PPV matches this year then it's definitely around ****. 

What did you guys think of Punk/Chavo on ECW? I know it wasn't a MOTYC but I'm just wondering what you guys rate it at.


----------



## Sephiroth

TNA (3/6/08) - TNA World Champion Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Six Sides of Steel; Non-Title Match) 

Rating: ***

-------------------------------

New Beijing Pro Wrestling (2/7/08) - China and Japan Friendship Special Match: Ken Ohka vs. Long River Hwang Ho 

Rating: *****

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HlK_bO8fCs4


----------



## Taroostyles

Well I've seen many people rate the Umaga/Hardy cage match at ****, and this match was much better.(All that match was the jump from the cage and the rest was pretty forgettable)


----------



## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> Well I've seen many people rate the Umaga/Hardy cage match at ****, and this match was much better.(All that match was the jump from the cage and the rest was pretty forgettable)


didn't see it. what date was that Raw?


----------



## Taroostyles

Um, I think it was the first RAW of 2008. The 1st week in January, so probably Jan 6th or 7th I think.


----------



## vivalabrave

BTW Sephiroth, I wanted to know what "Estuans interius ira vehementi" meant, so I googled it and this came up:



> *Estuans interius ira vehementi* 50 up, 9 down
> 
> - Burning inside with violent anger.
> 
> Bob was _estuans interius ira vehementi _when the dog ate his cell phone.


I'm sorry to hear that a dog ate your cell phone.

DAMN SCHNAUZERS!!!


On topic I thought the Hardy-Umaga Cage match was like ***1/4-***1/2.


----------



## Sephiroth

vivalabrave said:


> BTW Sephiroth, I wanted to know what "Estuans interius ira vehementi" meant.


it's from a video game. Final Fantasy VII

http://lyricwiki.org/Nobuo_Uematsu:One-Winged_Angel


----------



## KingKicks

Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage - Six Sides Of Steel - ****.

Definetly the best Impact match in a while.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> it's from a video game. Final Fantasy VII
> 
> http://lyricwiki.org/Nobuo_Uematsu:One-Winged_Angel


The most horribly over-rated game ever.

Waiting for tonight when Nigel-Aries becomes everyone's MOTY so far.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> The most horribly over-rated game ever.


this is me right now...


----------



## PulseGlazer

Yet somehow FF7 is still direvative with a really, really badly constructed narrative.


----------



## KingKicks

Takeshi Morishima vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - ****1/4

-I really enjoyed this, was even tempted to give it ****1/2 but i decided to keep it at ****1/4.

Naomichi Marufuji and Takashi Sugiura vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - ****

-I thought this would be a bit better but still pretty good. I've seen the ending like 4 times and it never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Spartanlax

My "FF7-Bashing" senses were tingling.

Aaron; I challenge you to physical combat. I LOVE FF7 more than any game, ever. Fight me!

But to be on topic....Misawa/Morishima is like ****. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Blasko

Takashi Sasaki/Miyamoto vs. Abby/Ryuji Ito- ****. 

Current Deathmatch of the year. If Miyamoto doesn't become the deathmatch champion within a year, it'd be a SIN.


----------



## Spartanlax

I just downloaded that match, so that makes me VERY happy!

Oh, and after texting you about Xbox I finally told my Mom that I NEED to get it fixed..so...it's getting fixed. I'll have a working 360 in like 2 weeks, and then I'll own your ass in COD4.


----------



## Sephiroth

Spartanlax said:


> My "FF7-Bashing" senses were tingling.
> 
> Aaron; I challenge you to physical combat. I LOVE FF7 more than any game, ever. Fight me!
> 
> But to be on topic....Misawa/Morishima is like ****. Awesome stuff.


let's start a posse. "Final Fantasy Fans Who Hate Aaron Glazer"

suck it

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a80/sephy37/IMG_0436.jpg

anyways, can't wait to see Aries/Nigel tonight. PPV reports from the dirtsheets that i've seen have it from **** 1/2 - **** 3/4 and "on par, if not better" than the Driven main event.


----------



## Blasko

Hows Brawl, Gary? 



EDIT- I finally got prestige mode, bitch. Bring it.


----------



## KingKicks

Sephiroth said:


> let's start a posse. "Final Fantasy Fans Who Hate Aaron Glazer"
> 
> suck it
> 
> http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a80/sephy37/IMG_0436.jpg
> 
> anyways, can't wait to see Aries/Nigel tonight. PPV reports from the dirtsheets that i've seen have it from **** 1/2 - **** 3/4 and "on par, if not better" than the Driven main event.


I hate you  We don't get Brawl till fucking JUNE!


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> let's start a posse. "Final Fantasy Fans Who Hate Aaron Glazer"
> 
> suck it
> 
> http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a80/sephy37/IMG_0436.jpg
> 
> anyways, can't wait to see Aries/Nigel tonight. PPV reports from the dirtsheets that i've seen have it from **** 1/2 - **** 3/4 and "on par, if not better" than the Driven main event.



I almost died laughing. Lucky for me, my buddy will make me a banner and... oh... crap, you're that buddy.

If FF7 was your first RPG you're forgiven. If it wasn't then I'll take Chi and Jersey out!


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> I almost died laughing. Lucky for me, my buddy will make me a banner and... oh... crap, you're that buddy.
> 
> If FF7 was your first RPG you're forgiven. If it wasn't then I'll take Chi and Jersey out!


it wasn't my first RPG. Legend of Zelda more or less was (since it's more or less an RPG) or Soul Blazer/FF 2 (can't remember which one i bought first)

so i guess i'm not forgiven.

----

*ON TOPIC!*

WOW! 

Rising Above: ROH World Title - Nigel McGuinness(c) vs. Austin Aries - ***** 1/2*

Current MOTY


----------



## Spartanlax

Not my first RPG either. Blah!

And are we counting Aries/Nigel for 2008 even though it took place in 2007?


----------



## odm

lol n00bs FFIII (or VI however you look at it) >>>>>> FF7


----------



## PulseGlazer

You are not forgiben. Nigel-Aries should count since far more people saw it now.


----------



## Sephiroth

odm said:


> lol n00bs FFIII (or VI however you look at it) >>>>>> FF7


agreed.


----------



## Dark Church

Does Mcguiness/Aries count as a 2008 MOTYC since the match took place in 07?


----------



## Sephiroth

it does. it happened like a few days before New Year's so it's pretty much 2008 anyways


----------



## mateuspfc

I didn't see anybody talking about it since it happened, but this past weeks *ECW World Championship Match between Chavo Guerrero and CM Punk* was a very good match. Not a MOTYC by any means, but probably their best encounter to date. 

I'll give it something like ****1/2*.

Looking forward to seeing them fight in a Extreme Rules Match at WM to end the feud.


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

Aries vs. Nigel ****1/2

I'm too tired to type anything at the moment other than, until WrestleMania It's the current Match of the Year.


----------



## -GP-

Aries vs. Nigel - ****1/2

Insane heat from the crowd, Nigel smashing his head on the rail a few minutes in looked bad as hell, that springboard lariat that sent Aries to the outside turning him inside-out was brutal...in short, emotion was perfect.

The one thing that took me out of it was Aries pretty much shaking off the afformetioned springboard lariat in a couple of seconds after he sold it for dead for a bit.

MOTY thus far easily.


----------



## KingKicks

Aries vs. Nigel - ****1/2

Just completely brutal, from Nigel's head smashing into the rail to the 2nd rope lariat that made Aries flip like crazy to the outside to the devastating jawbreaker lariat at the end.

MOTY so far.


----------



## sirdilznik

*Rock n Rave Infection vs. Latin American Xchange vs. Motor City Machine guns - Destination X* - *****1/4 - ****1/2* This match was absolutely awesome. Crowd was going bananas. Great stuff from everybody. Fast paced. Action packed. They even let Rave and Hoyt have a good bit of offense. Jimmy did his sweet ass tilt-a-whirl furiwara armbar takedown and some nice combos. Hoyt with the massive Moonsault. Hernandez with the GARGANTUAN top rope suicide dive. hernandez holding lance Hoyt (yes, Lance Hoyt all 275 lbs. of him) in a vertical suplex for what must have been close to 30 sec. while crazy action was going on around him. Awesome double team goodness from the Guns. Tope Con Hilo. Border Toss. If this match had been given a little more time it could have approached *****. For the time that it was given, it was *spectacular*. Strong MOTYC.


----------



## Sephiroth

i'm really intrigued to watch that match right now. i only like two teams out of the three, but MCMG matches are pretty much must see for me. 

i doubt i'll like it as much as you did, especially after reading Keller's review from PWTorch, but i'll check it out regardless



Wade Keller said:


> WINNERS: LAX in 9:00.
> 
> STAR RATING: **1/4 -- Chaotic at times, good pacing for a short opener throughout, with good highspots to get the crowd into the show.


----------



## sirdilznik

Sephiroth said:


> i'm really intrigued to watch that match right now. i only like two teams out of the three, but MCMG matches are pretty much must see for me.
> 
> i doubt i'll like it as much as you did, especially after reading Keller's review from PWTorch, but i'll check it out regardless


Well it wasn't a psychological battle by any means, but the spots were crazy and even Hoyt and Rave looked good (especially Rave). Maybe I'm too psyched about it, but it was extremely entertaining and for me that's the ultimate measure.


----------



## Sephiroth

sirdilznik said:


> Well it wasn't a psychological battle by any means, but the spots were crazy and even Hoyt and Rave looked good (especially Rave). Maybe I'm too psyched about it, but it was extremely entertaining and for me that's the ultimate measure.


you've been watching too much Dragon Gate . jk


----------



## sirdilznik

Sephiroth said:


> you've been watching *not enough* Dragon Gate . jk


fixed it. 

Anyway, it's a 3 way tag match, of course it's going to be chaotic 

Edit: Also I'm biased. I'm a HUGE Hernandez mark and Hernandez got to be all types of awesome so it put a huge smile on my face.


----------



## Taroostyles

I thought it was certainly better than **1/4, atleast ***3/4 and maybe even a little bit higher IMO.


----------



## -GP-

Taroostyles said:


> I thought it was certainly better than **1/4, atleast ***3/4 and maybe even a little bit higher IMO.


that's my opinion too...very entertaining sprint, lots of nice spots, the rating depends on how much you enjoy sprints, but **1/4 is ridiculously low :no:


----------



## - Styles -

cp_punk said:


> that's my opinion too...very entertaining sprint, lots of nice spots, the rating depends on how much you enjoy sprints, but **1/4 is ridiculously low :no:


Seriously wtf is wrong with that guy, maybe it wasn't an epic 4+ star match, but as for entertaining it doesn't get much better than that. AT least ***+


----------



## Sephiroth

AjStyles>GOD said:


> Seriously wtf is wrong with that guy, maybe it wasn't an epic 4+ star match, but as for entertaining it doesn't get much better than that. AT least ***+


Keller's been dedicating most of his time to MMA lately and couldn't give a shit about anything besides Wrestlemania

i wish Caldwell did a live report, he's usually on the mark and is at least fun to read


----------



## Taroostyles

Well Meltzer said he really enjoyed it, so I guess different strokes for different wrestling journalists. LOL


----------



## Blasko

RAW was great, not one 'bad' match on the card from what I remember. 

Hardy/Y2J- ****. DA NEAR FALLZ
HBK/Cena III- low end **** 1/4. Some rather awkward moments, but both men played it off well. Some lack of arm work by Cena puts it on the low end part of the 1/4. 

Great RAW, shit keeps getting better.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I think the ending of the HBK/Orton match killed it. But they did some really great stuff, especially since they missed alot of spots and really covered them up smoothly and quickly.

The Triple Threat Tag shouldn't be a MOTYC I would say ***1/2, plus MCMG had a better match earlier and two other good matches coming up.

What about The Briscoes vs Marufuji/Sugiura? I enjoyed the match and the ending was sick as hell.


----------



## Taroostyles

Hardy/Jericho-***1/2
HBK/Cena-**3/4-***


----------



## Blasko

Taroostyles said:


> HBK/Cena-**3/4-***


BS. 

Well, my ratings suck at first view...


----------



## Taroostyles

It was an okay match, but it had a crap finish.

Plus, I have their WM match last year at ****. And that match was alot better than this one.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Taroostyles said:


> It was an okay match, but it had a crap finish.
> 
> Plus, I have their WM match last year at ****. And that match was alot better than this one.


There match on RAW was 100 times better the night after Wrestlemaina.


----------



## Taroostyles

You mean the one in England that went almost 60 minutes? I'm pretty sure that wasn't the night after WM.

Anyway, yeah that match is better than the WM one, but I was just using the WM one as a reference.


----------



## Sephiroth

*Raw*:
Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy - **** 1/2*
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - *** 1/2*

Sorry Blasko :$


----------



## sirdilznik

*Hardy/Y2J - ***1/2* - Really good match with a few sloppy parts (sloppy cross body by Y2J, failed bridge out... though they improvised, weak looking Lariat, etc...) Still a fun match

*HBK/Cena - ***1/2* - Excellent match with a but fairly slow in spots. It would have been close to **** if not for the crap ending.


----------



## T-C

I thought Cena/Michaels was their usual great stuff, just toned down a bit. Cena's selling was tremendous. Really enjoyable.


----------



## Sephiroth

*TNA Destination X 2008*
Rock N Rave vs. LAX vs. Murder City Machine Guns - ****

don't see what the big deal is. it was a good opener and got the crowd energized.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Shawn Michaels/John Cena last night on Raw- ***3/4. Just a great match and it was better than their Mania match. It would have easily got **** or higher from me with a clean finish.

Jeff Hardy/Chris Jericho last night on Raw- ***1/4. It was not as good as their previous match, but still a good TV match.

Christian Cage/Kurt Angle, Steel Cage Match from Impact!- ***3/4-****- Great cage match, but seriously I'd would rather have waited to see a Cage between the two at LockDown instead of Joe/Angle. The Christian/Angle series has been awesome.


----------



## Taroostyles

Sephiroth said:


> *TNA Destination X 2008*
> Rock N Rave vs. LAX vs. Murder City Machine Guns - ****
> 
> don't see what the big deal is. it was a good opener and got the crowd energized.


So you thought the HBK/Cena match last night was better than the tag 3 way? To each his own, but I just don't see how.

I also don't see how people are rating the HBK/Cena match over the Jericho/Hardy match, that match was almost a full * better than the HBK/Cena match IMO. Different strokes I guess.


----------



## T-C

I thought the Cena/Michaels match had more depth to it than the Hardy/Jericho one on first viewing. Hardy/Jericho was more about nearfalls than anything else, it didn't suck me into the match as much as the Cena one.

Neither are going to be MOTYCs though.


----------



## KingKicks

Jeff Hardy vs. Chris Jericho - ***1/2

Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena - ***1/4


----------



## KeepItFresh

Aoki/KENTA from Second Navigation is pretty awesome. ****.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Can we stop discussing every match that's barely 4* before this ends up a thousand pages?


----------



## T-C

PulseGlazer said:


> Can we stop discussing every match that's barely 4* before this ends up a thousand pages?


Yes please.


----------



## KeepItFresh

I mentioned that pages ago. If it is not ****'s or higher it shouldn't even be mentioned, but this thread turned into something else.


----------



## PulseGlazer

**** 1/4 - Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries - Proving Ground

They did a ton of Aries veteran vs. Stevens rookie stuff, with Aries thinking so far ahead of Stevens that had an answer for literally everything Stevens tried. Of course, Stevens is the Resilience, so despite his beating, and due to his awesome power, he can withstand Aries stuff just enough to finish him off. Worth getting the DVD for this. Better than any Stevens vs. Strong match. Stevens is the Resilience.


----------



## vivalabrave

PulseGlazer said:


> **** 1/4 - Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries - Proving Ground
> 
> They did a ton of Aries veteran vs. Stevens rookie stuff, with Aries thinking so far ahead of Stevens that had an answer for literally everything Stevens tried. Of course, Stevens is the Resilience, so despite his beating, and due to his awesome power, he can withstand Aries stuff just enough to finish him off. Worth getting the DVD for this. Better than any Stevens vs. Strong match. Stevens is the Resilience.


Agree on everything including the rating. Stevens really proved to me (hence the DVD title) that he is everything they say he is. 

Wonder how the Stevens-Dragon match is from the next night's show? I hate that they did that ending 2 nights in a row, but hopefully the match will still rawk.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> Can we stop discussing every match that's barely 4* before this ends up a thousand pages?


well people are mentioning some matches at **** and we're just trying to put some perspective on it. like i mentioned the 3 way opener from Destination X is ** because people have been saying it's **** - **** 1/2. 

besides, who fucking cares. don't be such a bitch about it Aaron. it's not like people go back in this thread and check shit out anyways.


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> besides, who fucking cares. don't be such a bitch about it Aaron. it's not like people go back in this *section* and check shit out anyways.


 *Ahem.* :side:


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> well people are mentioning some matches at **** and we're just trying to put some perspective on it. like i mentioned the 3 way opener from Destination X is ** because people have been saying it's **** - **** 1/2.
> 
> besides, who fucking cares. don't be such a bitch about it Aaron. it's not like people go back in this thread and check shit out anyways.


I've gone back to check. And I was referring to the Raw matches which no one had at **** but still got 5 or 6 posts.

And I go back and read through.


----------



## Taroostyles

Basically, sometimes people post matches that they think are ****+, and then it leads to other people posting their own ratings that are less than ****+.(Therefore, claiming it wasn't a MOTYC.)

I don't come into this thread and mention a match unlesss I'm positive I feel it's ****+. But sometimes people just comment when they don't agree that a match is as good as other people thought it was.(The RAW matches this week for instance)


----------



## - Styles -

Decided to check out Mcguiness/Aries since everybody was saying it was so great. Really intense throughout, the spots were sick, including Nigel hitting the rail and the springboard lariat wow...:shocked: Really exciting finish as well. 

*Final rating from me: ****1/4 *

Anyone know if Mcguiness got a legit concussion from the rail shot? If not, he sold it pretty damn well.


----------



## KingKicks

Yeah it was a legit concussion as well as a broken nose.


----------



## KillSteve

I havent been able to watch much recent ROH stuff as of late, and nothing I've seen from Japan or Mexico has struck me as MOTY calbre (yet). People seem to be VASTLY overating the Cage/Angle matches if you ask me.

So far we havent had anything special, but I would say Umaga/Hardy cage match, the RAW Elimination Chamber, or maybe even Orton/Hardy at. Oh yeah, and the Royal Rumble was pretty decnent this year, especially when ti got down to the final few.


----------



## geesey38

chalk one more to the aries/nigel match.


----------



## Taroostyles

KillSteve said:


> I havent been able to watch much recent ROH stuff as of late, and nothing I've seen from Japan or Mexico has struck me as MOTY calbre (yet). People seem to be VASTLY overating the Cage/Angle matches if you ask me.
> 
> So far we havent had anything special, but I would say Umaga/Hardy cage match, the RAW Elimination Chamber, or maybe even Orton/Hardy at. Oh yeah, and the Royal Rumble was pretty decnent this year, especially when ti got down to the final few.


I don't really think people are overrating the Angle/Cage matches at all, the 2 ppv matches were both awesome but had dissapointing finishes.(The 3rd match wasn't quite as good but it had a clean/better finish, so it's a toss up I suppose)

As far the WWE goes, I think Hardy/Michaels and the RAW EC are the best 2 matches they've put on this year, both the Royal Rumble and Umaga/Hardy don't go over ***1/2 for me. 

I haven't seen Aries/Nigel but it sounds really good and apparently the best match so far this year, so I need to check it out.


----------



## McQueen

Aries/Nigel was from last year technically. In my book that disqualifies it.

This is why people shouldn't pick a MOTY till March or so once everything major is available. Maybe it's just me and TheUnholyDragon who think so.


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> Aries/Nigel was from last year technically. In my book that disqualifies it.
> 
> This is why people shouldn't pick a MOTY till March or so once everything major is available. Maybe it's just me and TheUnholyDragon who think so.


Like it or not, most of the IWC takes its cue for this sort of thing from Meltz, and this is what he does.


----------



## -GP-

i think that's a detail really...we define the year as we like and it's much simpler to define each match's date as simply the time it goes public (if it does). 
Gets rid of a lot of potential confusion for those of us who can't even recall what they had for diner two hours ago (...think it was a sandwich).


----------



## vivalabrave

*Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ROH 12/29 ****1/2*

Finally got around to watching the PPV and the match was everthing I had hoped it would be. I totally forgot about the Nigel vs. gaurdrail bump, so when Aries went soaring to the outside it freaked the shit out of me. I was tempted to go up to ****3/4, but it didn't feel right for whatever reason. 


I consider the match from last year and right now it's 6th after these:

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (Driven)
2. KENTA/Ishimori vs. Marufuji/Ibushi NOAH 7/15 
3. Briscoes v Steen & El Generico ROH (Boston Street Fight)
4. Briscoes vs. Shelly/Sabin (GTGM)
5. Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima ROH 8/25 (Manhatten Mayhem II)


----------



## MrPaiMei

BxB Hulk and Shingo Takagi vs. KENTA and Taiji Ishimori 

Holy CHRIST this was awesome. The entrances set it up perfectly, too, as KENTA and Ishimori SEEM like such a big deal here, Hulk comes out and everyone loves him, and then SHINGO comes out ready to kill him some people. So it starts, and Hulk and Ishimori are doing their little acrobatics thing, and SHINGO is suddenly like "enough of this bullshit", demands a tag, demands KENTA, and its on from there. KENTaiji play great heels here working over Hulk and getting thecrowd super behind him, but once he makes that tag to SHINGO it's nonstop fucking beatdowns, and eventually it all comes down to KENTA and SHINGO fucking slugging each other till one can't fight no more, and the finish is quite brutal. NOt quite as balls to the wall with the nearfalls as the 1/15 tag, with a bit more NOAH style fighting spirit, but as far as overall match quality it's right there. BE SURE to see this! ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

Just watched Hulk & Shingo Vs. KENTA & Ishimori

****1/4 from me too. 
Not much i can say that hasn't been said, you can tell the NOAH guys were in this when you compare it with the 15/1 match, but that's not a bad thing really - just different.
My only complain is some minor sloppiness all over the place, but nothing too major.

Also Shingo damn near killing Ishimori with a lariat was all kinds of awesome.

On a side note, is it wrong that i find myself watching BxB Hulk matches just to see his entrance...? :$


----------



## ROH

**** for the KENTaiji/NH from me. 

Singles MOTY from me: Nigel/Aries from Rising Above, fairly solid ****1/2.


----------



## -GP-

*CIMA Vs. Yoshino (20/03/08)*

I'm giving it ****1/4. Some nice stuff by both guys, a botch or two here and there, some general no-selling later on (hey, it's still DG after all) but overal a pretty fun match...**** seems too low, 4+1/2 is definitely too much for me.
Finish was also kinda anticlimactic too but i guess it worked.


----------



## ROH

GP_Punk said:


> *CIMA Vs. Yoshino (20/03/08)*
> 
> I'm giving it ****1/4. Some nice stuff by both guys, a botch or two here and there, *some general no-selling later on *(hey, it's still DG after all) but overal a pretty fun match...**** seems too low, 4+1/2 is definitely too much for me.
> Finish was also kinda anticlimactic too but i guess it worked.


I refuse to watch any CIMA singles match nowadays due to his ridiculous no-selling.


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One*
Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm ****-****1/4

Just watched Doi & Yoshino vs. SHINGO & BxB Hulk & all I got to say...that was overkill at its finest.


----------



## Blasko

KO-D Openweight Title: HARASHIMA (c) vs. Yasu Urano

***** 1/4*

I might even pump it up and give it the full **** 1/2. Yasu pulls every heel trick in the book to try and win the Openweight title, but HARASHIMA uses his baby face fighting spirit to try defeat Yasu. 

Maybe my current MOTY, I might have to re-watch Nigel and Aries to see which one is better. But I had more fun watching HARA/Yasu, so meh. 

It's one of those matches you have to see to believe, it's a great face/heel conflict.


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One*
Gran Akuma & Icarus vs. Solider & Fire Ant ****-****1/4


----------



## Halifax

Hulk & Shingo Vs. KENTA & Ishimori is awesome. Gonna watch the matches mention on this page as sonn as I´ve download them. Thanks for the works.


----------



## watts63

*PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One*
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## MrPaiMei

Any possible way your uploading that watts(and maybe some other PDub stuff)? I'll make it worth your whiiiiiiiiiile (SUP getting King of Trios, IWA500, Transform, DGInfinity 80, more).....


----------



## watts63

MrPaiMei said:


> Any possible way your uploading that watts(and maybe some other PDub stuff)? I'll make it worth your whiiiiiiiiiile (SUP getting King of Trios, IWA500, Transform, DGInfinity 80, more).....


Danielson/Ki will most likely be upped by tomorrow but somebody may tell PWG about it like last time I upped a PWG match.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Watts, you are THE MAN. Please, PM me any and all requests.


----------



## watts63

*PWG The High Cost of Business*
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado & Eddie Kingston ****-****1/4


----------



## peep4life

watts63 said:


> *PWG The High Cost of Business*
> Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado & Eddie Kingston ****-****1/4


Wow, watched this match live and don't remember it being that good, just ordered the show with the All Star Weekend package so I'll have to give it another watch.


----------



## Word

*Destination X*

MCMG vs. RNRI vs. LAX - ***** - ****1/4*

Simply amazing.


----------



## Burning Sword

Word said:


> *Destination X*
> 
> MCMG vs. RNRI vs. LAX - ***** - ****1/4*
> 
> Simply amazing.


I enjoyed the match but I didn't think it was that great. For the moment I will have to give it to Aries/McGuiness(****1/4-****1/2)

For Tag Matches, I would go with Kawada/Kea vs. Tanahashi/Muto from the 3/1 All Japan Show. ****1/4


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate 3/20/08*
SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****

*PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two*
Human Tornado vs. Candice LaRae ****-****1/4

*PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA ****1/4

*PWG Pearl Habra*
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado ****

*PWG Pearl Habra*
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

*PWG Pearl Habra*
Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4


----------



## ROH

ROH Proving Ground - Erick Stevens vs Austin Aries - *****1/2*

Amazing match built off Stevens trying to prove himself to Aries and the fans. So well built and awesome finish.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

ROH Breakout 
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black **** - ****1/4
Great stuff here, Black really impressed me here.


----------



## watts63

*ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show*
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & Ryusuke Taguchi ****-****1/4


----------



## Blasko

Ever one should watch HARASHIMA/Yasu. 

You shallow bastards.


----------



## watts63

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Ever one should watch HARASHIMA/Yasu.
> 
> You shallow bastards.


Just watched the match & I don't know what you see because it's not a MOTYC in my eyes.

*Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 3*
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Human Tornado vs. SHINGO, Austin Aries, Jack Evans & Cyber Kong ****

*ROH Proving Ground*
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ****1/4


----------



## Blasko

watts63 said:


> Just watched the match & I don't know what you see because it's not a MOTYC in my eyes.


 HARASHIMA = Baby face who shows fighting spirit, won't stay down 

Yasu = Ultra heel who will do anything to win the title. Uses anything to his advantage.


----------



## McQueen

You got a link -Blasko-? cause I actually want to check it out. I forgot to to ask you for one the other day when we were talking shit about Italianlax.


----------



## Blasko

McQueen said:


> You got a link -Blasko-? cause I actually want to check it out. I forgot to to ask you for one the other day when we were talking shit about Italianlax.


http://www.sendspace.com/file/yvw1qy

DDT "JUDGEMENT 2008", 09.03.2008 Tokyo Korakuen Hall 1,200 Fans - No Vacancy
1. Sakai's Personal Belt Scramble Match: Muscle Sakai vs. Yoshiaki Yago
2. DDT Extreme Title, 3 Way Match: Masahiro Takanashi (c) vs. Danshoku Dino vs. KUDO
3. KO-D Openweight Title: HARASHIMA (c) vs. Yasu Urano

Credit = rmm311.


----------



## KeepItFresh

I'm totally getting that later. 

Pretty sure I rememeber watching some Japanase tag tourney last year where in the middle of the show HARASHIMA fought Morishima for the ROH title. It was a great match, so I have to check this out.


----------



## ROH

KeepItFresh said:


> I'm totally getting that later.
> 
> Pretty sure I rememeber watching some Japanase tag tourney last year where in the middle of the show HARASHIMA fought Morishima for the ROH title. It was a great match, so I have to check this out.


And it has Yago and KUDO on it.


----------



## Blasko

ROH said:


> And it has Yago and KUDO on it.


 You forgot Dino and Sakai.


----------



## MrPaiMei

That was KAZMA Morishima faced for the ROH title, from K-Dojo. HARASHIMA is from DDT.


----------



## odm

just saw the danielson/black match from january. i think people at the show were a little premature calling it a MOTY candidate and rating it so high. it was a solid match, but i don't know if i'd give it 4 stars or higher.


----------



## McQueen

The internet NEVER prematurely overrates things.

I should actually start watching things from this year now....


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate Infinity #80*
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma & Yasushi Kanda vs. 
SHINGO, BxB Hulk, YAMATO, Cyber Kong & Shinobu ****-****1/4


----------



## Spartanlax

BxB Hulk & Shingo vs. KENTA & Ishimori- ****1/4

Comments/thoughts to be written later.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> The internet NEVER prematurely overrates things.
> 
> I should actually start watching things from this year now....


the only one that prematures around here is McQueen!


----------



## McQueen

I haven't rated anything this year at all. The only matches i've seen from 2008 are Nagata/Angle (which sucked IMO) & the all-star (and Akitoshi Saito) 8 man from K. Office which while I very much enjoyed it I didn't think it was a MOTYC.


----------



## Blasko

Multi-man chop fest should get ****** stars. 

That's right.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> I haven't rated anything this year at all. The only matches i've seen from 2008 are Nagata/Angle (which sucked IMO) & the all-star (and Akitoshi Saito) 8 man from K. Office which while I very much enjoyed it I didn't think it was a MOTYC.


I hear you.

I've only watched a handful of 08 matches, and only 2 have come up at ****, if I recall right.

I need to watch more Jeff Hardy. From all accounts, before he fucked the dog and got suspended again, he was having a hell of a string of matches and the go with Shawn is probably my MOTY thus far (for what that's worth)


----------



## sirdilznik

It will probably get no love in here but I got the main event for the *Live Impact 3/27 Tomko/AJ/Team 3D vs. Christian/Rhino/Big Sexy/Sting **** 1/4* It was exactly what I'm looking for when I watch a crazy match like an 8 man tag. Organized chaos. Great flow. Nash was used sparingly which is a good thing. Everybody else got their chance to kick ass. AJ with the crazy elevation on the Springboard Flying Forearm (I mark so hard for that move). Good double team action and dirty heel goodness from 3D. Great build to a hot tag in to The Stinger. Sting didn't disappoint either. Multi Stinger Splashes mixed in between mayhem. Deathdrop, deathlock. No commercials. Decent time given. Clean well executed ending. Very happy sirdilznik. This match was a Tornado Plex away from **** 1/2 + territory.


----------



## Taroostyles

I would probably go ***1/2-***3/4 on the 8 man tag last night, but I have it on DVR to watch again if I need to.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

Wow, that's some big ratings for it.

Because I would give that match **3/4 or just maybe *** at best if I looked at it again. I guess you guys saw way more in it then I did. 

I would point out other then the hot crowd which was into most of the show and what I thought was just watchable action at best. I believe I have seen better 8 man tags done on Impact for the last half of last year then what I seen there.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah, I think ***1/2 is still pretty fair tho. I wouldn't go over 4*

It had a great crowd, Sting's return, hot action, good pace, back and forth, etc.


----------



## KeepItFresh

I didn't bother watching it, but people were also rating LAX v.s MCMG v.s RRI over **** which I don't remember be anywhere near ****.


----------



## sirdilznik

KeepItFresh said:


> I didn't bother watching it, but people were also rating LAX v.s MCMG v.s RRI over **** which I don't remember be anywhere near ****.


Yeah, I rated that matched highly too. What can I say, I love these kind of chaotic matches with sprints. That's why I'm such a big Dragon Gate mark. The #1 criteria I go by is simply how much was I entertained/enjoyed the match. I had a blast with those matches that's why I rated them so high. I found them to be tons of fun and what can I say, I like to have tons of fun.


----------



## -Mystery-

IWA-MS 500th Show - BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacbobs (I Quit Match) - ****1/4

Explaination to come later.


----------



## Spartanlax

You know what'd be even better than an explaination? A link to download the match.


----------



## McQueen

Spartanlax said:


> You know what'd be even better than an explaination? A link to download the match.


Where's you explaination from the match you were talking about on the last page Caruso Jr.? It is later after all.


----------



## -Mystery-

-Mystery- said:


> IWA-MS 500th Show - BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacbobs (I Quit Match) - ****1/4
> 
> Explaination to come later.


Jacobs/Whitmer was a great brawl as usual but this match seemed a lot different than the ones they had in ROH. It was more of an old school type brawl. Whiter had Fannin in his corner so you had the back story of Fannin still seeking revenge on Jacobs and trying to end his career. Then, you had Jacobs who is hell bent on bypassing everyone Fannin puts in his way no matter what. 

The brutality in this match really picked up. Whitmer freaking killed Jacobs with a singapore cane throughout the match. The shots were stiff and sickening. Also, the psychology was pretty damn good too. Whitmer brutalized Jacobs' surgerically repaired knee but Jacobs refused to give up. Jacobs hatred for Fannin and his desire to show him up really shown through when Whitmer locked on the figure-four for a solid amount of time.

The finish was freaking awesome. Both men pulled out spikes and just went to town on each other's faces, just brutal stuff to watch. Finally, Jacobs using the spike and stabbing Whitmer's lower nutsack region was a great way to finish the match. Overall these two men are the Danielson/Aries of brawling, it's impossible for these two men to had a bad brawl. The match had everything you could want from a brawl, psychology, storytelling, and brutality.


----------



## Sephiroth

Wrestlemania XXIV
Money In The Bank - ******
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - *******


----------



## sirdilznik

Sephiroth said:


> Wrestlemania XXIV
> Money In The Bank - ******
> Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - *******


I can agree with MITB but I barely got Flair/HBK scratching *** and a good bit of that was the great finish. It was a really important match with an awesome finish, but I cannot over look the numerous bad botches and it was just way too slow for my liking. Then again I'm all about the sprints so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Taroostyles

I have a hard time believing that HBK/Flair was 5 stars.


----------



## McQueen

I bet the match was super emotional but yeah I have to be skeptical about it being ***** as well. Then again I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Sephiroth

different strokes for different folks. i was really hyped and excited for Flair/HBK.


----------



## sirdilznik

*HHH/Cena/Orton WM24 - ****1/2* 

If not for the semi-botched finish it could have been ****3/4. Awesome, awesome, awesome match. Oddly enough that guy who supposedly can't wrestle ends up in another amazing match. What are the odds?


----------



## Sephiroth

Wrestlemania XXIV
Randy Orton(c) vs. HHH vs. John Cena - **** 3/4*

lol, loved the finish. i'm surprised the world didn't implode because of who won

edit:

i think Big Show vs. Mayweather deserves a star for every inch long Mayweather's shorts are


----------



## - Styles -

*Flair/HBK* ****1/2 loved every minute of it.
*Triple threat* ***1/2

sorry bout that.


----------



## McQueen

Thanks for the spoiler. :$


----------



## KingCrash

Sephiroth said:


> Wrestlemania XXIV
> Money In The Bank - ******
> Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - *******


I would say Flair/HBK was *** 3/4 and that was with all the emotion that went with it. I love Flair and like HBK, but that match wasn't *****.


----------



## McQueen

No problem Styles, being as i'm on this site right now i'm just asking for things to be spoiled lol. At least now I know the status of my Vbookie bet.


----------



## sirdilznik

For me the last few seconds of Flair/HBK and the moment afterwards was beyond ***** but the match itself was nothing special except the last couple minutes which were great.

*Taker/Edge WM24 - ***** - Great match. Really awesome back and forth and the stuff near the end was fun. This match suffers from _Too Many Finisher Reversals Syndrome_. you get to the point in a match where it's like "I know it can't be over because he hasn't reversed that finisher yet". Is it just me or does Taker have some of the weakest looking kick outs? Really fun match though.


----------



## Sephiroth

Wrestlemania XXIV
Edge(c) vs. The Undertaker - ******


----------



## bruteshot74

*Wrestlemania 24*
World Championship - Undertaker vs. Edge - ****


----------



## KingKicks

I'll probably download and rewatch Mania tomorrow but at the moment:

Undertaker vs. Edge - ****
MITB IV - ****
Flair vs. HBK - ****1/4
Cena vs. HHH vs. Orton - ***3/4


----------



## - Styles -

Gotta agree *Taker/Edge* **** too slow of a start to be any higher, but what a great ending to a pretty damn good WM.


----------



## KingCrash

Wrestlemania 24

Undertaker/Edge - ****
MITB - ****
Flair/HBK - *** 3/4 (The aftermath was great, but the match itself wasn't *****)

Everything else was *** or below and I wouldn't even rate the ECW Championship Match.

Edit: On second viewing I found myself enjoying Flair/HBK more than the first. Solid ****.


----------



## -Mystery-

Taker/Edge - ****1/2
Flair/Michaels - **** - ****1/4

These are just preliminary and will likely change when I watch it again. By the way, I have MITB and Cena/Orton/Triple H at ***3/4.


----------



## watts63

*WWE Wrestlemania 24*
Edge vs. Undertaker ****-****1/4

Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair ****1/4 AKA "I'm Sorry. I Love You."


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Michaels vs. Flair - *****

There were some flaws, but nothing major enough for me to care. The emotion was off the charts, and the story of Shawn holding back until Flair forces him to go full tilt was incredible. "I'm sorry, I love you" was great, but I actually loved Flair yelling at him to end it. Fucking fantastic, and everything professional wrestling should be.


Edge vs. Undertaker - ****1/2

Taker came in as an indestructible killing machine who had dominated at Wrestlemania. When he left, he was 16-0 and the World Champ. But only just. Edge had him so well scouted that it took him forever to rally any sort of offense. Even what he did get was often cut off quickly since Edge had all his big moves scouted. The only mistake Edge made was lacking a big move strong enough to put him away, allowing Taker to barely slip on the choke and finish him off. Some of the best storytelling I've seen in WWE over the last while from someone not named "Michaels" or "Cena"


I have the triple threat and MITB at ***3/4 each. The three way would be higher if not for Cena jobbing to what more or less amounted to a 6 count from ONE Pedigree? I cry bullshit. It doesn't hold up to history and fucked up the perfect finish to me. MITB was great once in kicked into high gear, but it started off with weird pacing and sort of took me a while to get back into it. Still fun though, and awesome result.


----------



## the_last_rites

if there is an MVP for 07-08 it has got to be Taker. This guy is the 'Epic Win Guy'


----------



## PulseGlazer

You guys are on freaking drugs. Re-watch if you need to before you rate.

1. Taker-Edge- The early part was just kind of there and had little to do with anything that came later, though when they did the "Edge counters everything" later and Taker ended up winning with a counter that was cool. My problem is the choke doesn't work for Taker's character, nor is it a classic image for a winner in a huge match. *** 3/4. Will be ultimately overshadowed and the start lowered it a lot.

2. MITB - *** 1/2 - you're standard WWE style spotfest. Everyone got a moment, but it still wasn't a story to be found.

3. The Triple Threat- Orton played opportunist here awesomely and Cena was a great he man... but what was Hunter's role in the actual match. Did I miss that somewhere? This was nowhere near the WMXX match, mostly because the didn't establish 1 participant well and the finish was too short/out of nowhere for a huge match. We know Cena can escape a pedigree. Why couldn't he here with time to rest? *** 1/2.

4. Flair HBK- refuse to rate it. Like the Kobashi return or Hogan-Rock, this stands as a special moment. We need a moment of the year to give to this one and those like it.


----------



## Doddsy

Taker/Edge - *** 1/2
Triple Threat - ***
Flair/HBK - ***
MITB - *****!!!


----------



## TakersFan

Wrestlemania XXIV
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Money In The Bank - ****1/4
Undertaker Vs Edge - ****


----------



## -Mystery-

Flair/Michaels was great but come on, *****? I understand it being Flair's last match and all but I think some are being a bit generous. A 5 star match is a flawless match and from my first watch I could see flaws which prevent it from being 'perfect'. I'll give more of my thoughts on the match once I watch it again.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> Flair/Michaels was great but come on, *****? I understand it being Flair's last match and all but I think some are being a bit generous. A 5 star match is a flawless match and from my first watch I could see flaws which prevent it from being 'perfect'. I'll give more of my thoughts on the match once I watch it again.


it's just wrestling. if you didn't think it was and some did, shut up about it. we don't need 5 pages of you trying to explain why we're wrong and you're right.

sames goes to Aaron, you're the biggest star rating nerd.


----------



## Victarion

Flair/HBk ****3/4- Wow
Taker/Edge****1/4-****1/2-A great match,wow great psychology and storytelliing,all round awesome.
MITB ****-better than last years IMO.
Triple Threat ***3/4-Screwy ending but Orton retainignwas a great shock


----------



## -Mystery-

Sephiroth said:


> it's just wrestling. if you didn't think it was and some did, shut up about it. we don't need 5 pages of you trying to explain why we're wrong and you're right.
> 
> sames goes to Aaron, you're the biggest star rating nerd.


So, I have to shut up because I have an opposite opinion? It's called fucking debating, the sole purpose these forums are around. If you didn't want your star ratings to be debated about, then don't post them.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> So, I have to shut up because I have an opposite opinion? It's called fucking debating, the sole purpose these forums are around. If you didn't want your star ratings to be debated about, then don't post them.


i'm sorry. you're right. i came off as a jerk and took your post too serious. it felt like you were attacking me personally. i guess it's just from all the anti-WWE abuse i get from Aaron that has me so defensive.

palsies?


----------



## T-C

I honestly thought Mayweather/Show was the second best match on the card last night. Such great fun. Floyd was so awesome as the heel, to pick up pro wrestling like that and go out and produce in a marquee match on the biggest show of the year in front of a record attendance deserves a lot of credit. His facial expressions when he thought he was winning were perfect and his selling was pretty good. And Show deserves a lot of credit for pulling it out of the bag too.

Flair/Michaels was bloody tremendous.


----------



## -Mystery-

I agree with everything you say T-C about Show/Mayweather but I couldn't help but feel bored and burned out by the match.

My major beef with Michaels/Flair was Flair's lack of attacking Michaels' ribs. I realize that he was likely legit hurt but he should've attacked the ribs to keep up the sense of realism.


----------



## SuperBrawl

I dunno, I thought it was a perfect catalyst to slow Michaels down and let Flair start going. He knew he couldn't win by attacking his ribs. He did give a couple of suplexes any way to ground him, but I think the point was that Michaels was so slowed down to Flair's level, that Flair could start getting at Michaels. I thougt it worked out perfectly as far as story goes.


----------



## -Destiny-

sirdilznik said:


> *HHH/Cena/Orton WM24 - ****1/2*
> 
> If not for the semi-botched finish it could have been ****3/4. Awesome, awesome, awesome match. Oddly enough that guy who supposedly can't wrestle ends up in another amazing match. What are the odds?


Jesus I'm the Orton mark and even I will not give it any more than ***1/2


----------



## Sephiroth

T-C said:


> I honestly thought Mayweather/Show was the second best match on the card last night. Such great fun. Floyd was so awesome as the heel, to pick up pro wrestling like that and go out and produce in a marquee match on the biggest show of the year in front of a record attendance deserves a lot of credit. His facial expressions when he thought he was winning were perfect and his selling was pretty good. And Show deserves a lot of credit for pulling it out of the bag too.
> 
> Flair/Michaels was bloody tremendous.


Mayweather's pants deserve all the credit in the world


----------



## Victarion

Yep Show/Mayweather turned out to be very good in the end. A lot of people were saying it'sd ruin the card,and I've even read posts that saying they wouldn't watch wrestling again yada yada bullshit.
It turned out to be a very solid match.Most people hate Mayweather but the man has got skills.And Money of course.
^Yes Mayweather's pants were brillaint.


----------



## sirdilznik

Killah RKO™;5558014 said:


> Jesus I'm the Orton mark and even I will not give it any more than ***1/2


I rate matches based on how much I enjoyed them. I enjoyed that match (Triple Threat) more than any other at Wrestlemania. What can I say, I just did. It had the perfect pace, kept me glued to the set, had me on the edge of my seat several times, and when the finish went down I was jumping up and down. I know it's kind of cheesy that Cena didn't kick out of a 6 second delayed Pedigree but for whatever reason I choose to look past that and enjoy Orton snaking his way out with a win. (Had the finish been better and the ref hadn't stalled for two seconds waiting for Orton I would have rated it even higher)

I think things like story can be overrated. If the match paints a good story and it helps me enjoy myself then sure I'm all for it, but that doesn't mean I can't have a great time watching a 15 minute spot-fest or a series of sprints. I think for me the pace of a match has a really profound effect on how much I enjoy it. I have a really hard time watching really slow matches (with a few notable exceptions). Honestly as big a deal as HBK/Flair was I actually got up and made myself a sandwich about 5 minutes into it because I was bored. (The least 5 minutes were awesome though). During the Triple Threat I never once for a fraction of a second even contemplated taking my eyes off the set.

Different people like different things I guess. *shrug*


----------



## Dark Church

Orton/Triple H/Cena - ***1/2
Michaels/Flair - **** 1/4
MITB - **** 
Undertaker/Edge - ****1/2


----------



## peep4life

Orton/Triple H/Cena - ***1/2
Michaels/Flair - **** 1/2
MITB - ***3/4
Undertaker/Edge - ****1/4
The emotion of Flair/HBK was so high that I think it bumped up the score, the match wasn't perfect, but it felt epic. Didn't really like the three way that much, but loved the ME.


----------



## -Destiny-

sirdilznik said:


> I rate matches based on how much I enjoyed them. I enjoyed that match (Triple Threat) more than any other at Wrestlemania. What can I say, I just did. It had the perfect pace, kept me glued to the set, had me on the edge of my seat several times, and when the finish went down I was jumping up and down. I know it's kind of cheesy that Cena didn't kick out of a 6 second delayed Pedigree but for whatever reason I choose to look past that and enjoy Orton snaking his way out with a win. (Had the finish been better and the ref hadn't stalled for two seconds waiting for Orton I would have rated it even higher)
> 
> I think things like story can be overrated. If the match paints a good story and it helps me enjoy myself then sure I'm all for it, but that doesn't mean I can't have a great time watching a 15 minute spot-fest or a series of sprints. I think for me the pace of a match has a really profound effect on how much I enjoy it. I have a really hard time watching really slow matches (with a few notable exceptions). Honestly as big a deal as HBK/Flair was I actually got up and made myself a sandwich about 5 minutes into it because I was bored. (The least 5 minutes were awesome though). During the Triple Threat I never once for a fraction of a second even contemplated taking my eyes off the set.
> 
> Different people like different things I guess. *shrug*


I feel the same as you with what you say in your first four lines and I was exactly the same. But a 14 minute match would have to be something expectional to grab that rating.

I was on the edge of my seat and glued to the set when Edge cashed in MITB against Cena at NYR but I'm hardly going to rate that threw the roof for the actual match quality.


----------



## Alan4L

Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer IWA Mid-South I Quit Match


----------



## Horselover Fat

"The Nature Boy" Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels was a 6 star match and nothing will top it this year. Lock this thread plz.


----------



## The Lady Killer

^ I agree.


----------



## DDMac

Did I read in this thread that someone didn't think Flair/Michaels scratched ***?


----------



## Horselover Fat

It's the indy section. I'm sure said individual rates every Briscoe Brothers match ****3/4.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Embarrassing.

I have still yet to hear a legitimate claim about something going wrong in the match.


----------



## kennedy=god

You might as well close this, because *nothing* will out-do Flair/HBK.


----------



## sirdilznik

LOL, I don't even like The Briscoes... well the new ones anyway. I stand by my rating. The match had a great story that unfolded extremely well, a great finish, and awesome emotion afterward. All of that takes what would be an otherwise **1/4 match to me and bumps it to *** territory.

*shrug*

Consequently now that I've had time to digest it, I like the ending in the Triple Threat (other than the obvious delay by the ref because Randy was out of place) even more. John Cena who suffered from _Kick Out Of Everything Disease_, also known as _Damn I Hit That Guy With My Finisher Four Times And He Still Kicked Out Syndrome_ in some parts, gets beat on a delayed pedigree and by Orton no less!?!? To me that is the most delicious of ironies :yum:


----------



## kennedy=god

> LOL, I don't even like The Briscoes... well the new ones anyway. I stand by my rating. The match had a great story that unfolded extremely well, a great finish, and awesome emotion afterward. All of that takes what would be an otherwise **1/4 match to me and bumps it to *** territory.


I understand that * ratings are a measurement of somebody's enjoyment of a match, but why has Flair/HBK gotten *** from you?


----------



## The Lady Killer

How on Earth would it be a **1/4 match without the emotion? That boggles my mind. You thought the match itself was worse than the Belfast Brawl? Or on par with Batista/Umaga? Unreal.


----------



## -Destiny-

The equivalent of him giving it *** is the equivalent of you giving it *****.


----------



## SuperBrawl

I'm mortified by that rating.


----------



## The Lady Killer

The thing is, I have yet to hear anyone giving it *** (or below 5 for that matter) justify their rating.


----------



## -Destiny-

FFS, because it wasen't *****

Storytelling, emotion and the moment at the end can all be great but quite simply enough action in the ring was not done to get *****.

Christ.


----------



## Sephiroth

KIMBO said:


> It's the indy section. I'm sure said individual rates every Briscoe Brothers match ****3/4.


no, but that individual does rate every 8 minute TNA spotfest around **** 1/2 

i only kid


----------



## -Mystery-

The Lady Killer said:


> Embarrassing.
> 
> I have still yet to hear a legitimate claim about something going wrong in the match.


Uhh...Flair failing to work over the injured ribs of Michaels sticks out big time. It's such a simple psychology, exploiting an injury.

Also, lol @ people are already saying Flair/Michaels is MOTY. I'm really starting to think that people might actually be brainwashed by the allure of Flair. Flair probably could've wrestled a broom and people would call it MOTY.


----------



## Spartanlax

My fucking gym teachers spoiled WrestleMania as soon as I saw them today...I can't be spoiler-free even if I avoid this and all wrestling sites like the plauge. 

That said, I got to come here and look at ratings...WM24 looks pretty solid. I can't WAIT to see the Flair/Michaels match...never been more excited for a match.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> Flair probably could've wrestled a broom and people would call it MOTY.


i could buy that. depends tho if Flair gets a splinter which turns into a crimson mask


----------



## SuperBrawl

By Flair busting out moves he hasn't used in years like the underhook suplex and the stalling vertical suplex, he was exploiting Michaels' ribs. He caught an opening with the ribs grounding Michaels so that he could go after his legs once Michaels was hurt. Why wouldn't he abandon the ribs to go after the legs? He wasn't goign to win the match by working on Michaels' ribs. He knew he had to go for the figure fou to win the match, so he worked on the legs. It's a travesty to say he abandoned working on the ribs.


----------



## Horselover Fat

lmao both of you are over analyzing it now. I'd rather just marvel at the spectacle I just witnessed.


----------



## SuperBrawl

Fair enough.


----------



## -Mystery-

SuperBrawl said:


> By Flair busting out moves he hasn't used in years like the underhook suplex and the stalling vertical suplex, he was exploiting Michaels' ribs. He caught an opening with the ribs grounding Michaels so that he could go after his legs once Michaels was hurt. Why wouldn't he abandon the ribs to go after the legs? He wasn't goign to win the match by working on Michaels' ribs. He knew he had to go for the figure fou to win the match, so he worked on the legs. It's a travesty to say he abandoned working on the ribs.


Two moves doesn't constitute working over the ribs, sorry. I can't believe you asked why Flair should work over the ribs. The ribs protect the lungs, you use lungs to breathe. By Flair working over the ribs, he was taking away Michaels' energy and weakening him down. Then, you start working over the legs and by the time you'd be ready to lock in the figure four, Michaels would be out of breath and his legs would be in tremendous pain and he'd have no choice by to tap. It's that simple.


----------



## Horselover Fat

They only had 20 minutes dude.


----------



## -Mystery-

KIMBO said:


> They only had 20 minutes dude.


Well, instead of chopping each other to no end they could of spent that time using psychology.


----------



## DDMac

Or maybe it was better served using the time to give the (majority of) fans what they wanted?


----------



## Horselover Fat

There really wasn't that much chopping going on compared to Flair matches of recent years.

Anyway, the crowd and 99% of the people watching the match would rather see a chop battle then Ric Flair working the ribs.


----------



## -Mystery-

Perhaps but there are some of us that actually care about psychology. Not to mention you could've easily fit in a few mins of rib work. To say you couldn't is complete bullshit.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Nah, nobody cared about the ribs besides wrestling high hats that enjoy giving star ratings.


----------



## -Mystery-

KIMBO said:


> Nah, nobody cared about the ribs besides wrestling high hats that enjoy giving star ratings.


That really makes no sense, tbh. People who ignored the ribs still like giving out star ratings.


----------



## Headliner

'Other Wrestling'.

I can't wait to see this match. Just to see the big fuss about Flair apparently not working the ribs and that being such a big problem.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Not sure why he'd need to work the ribs over when the "injury" was mainly just a way to slow HBK down and level the playing field.


----------



## -Mystery-

Headliner said:


> 'Other Wrestling'.
> 
> I can't wait to see this match. Just to see the big fuss about Flair apparently not working the ribs and that being such a big problem.


I wouldn't call it a "big problem" but it certainly seperates the match from being 5 stars because 5 star matches are flawless matches and the ignoring of the ribs hurts the psychology of the match slightly thus making it "unperfect".

Honestly, I think most people already made up their minds before the match.



The Lady Killer said:


> Not sure why he'd need to work the ribs over when the "injury" was mainly just a way to slow HBK down and level the playing field.


How was Flair suppose to know how badly Michaels injured himself on the announcer's table? That is why he should've stayed with the ribs and worked them over a bit to make sure Michaels' ribs were truly damaged and to wear him down.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Ok, HBK gets back in the ring at 19:30 and Flair stomps his ribs a few times. he then whips him hard into the corner twice. He then gives him the back suplex and then he lifts his arm up and punches him in the ribs. Then he gives him the underhook suplex and kicks him in the ribs again. Then he gives him the vertical suplex. HBK begins to take the advantage but Flair kicks him in the ribs and stops it but HBK hits the neckbreaker and regains the advantage at 22:00. This isn't enough working the ribs?


----------



## The Lady Killer

Flair could tell HBK was badly hurt because HBK wasn't running circles around him in the ring anymore. Perhaps HBK holding his ribs and selling like a champion could've been a dead giveaway as well.

edit - There you go.


----------



## -Destiny-

People asked for a flaw in the match and he's given you one.


----------



## kennedy=god

-Mystery- said:


> Well, instead of chopping each other to no end they could of spent that time using psychology.


That would have completely the crowd and the tempo of the match. They had to continue with those chops to keep the flow going through-out that match, you no what the live crowds are like, if he had worked on the ribs for any longer the crowd would have been completely dead. They just decided to keep the match at a faster pace so that people would be more drawn into it. It would have been dangerous to work on the ribs, as it clearly was a non-kayfabe injury.


----------



## -Mystery-

KIMBO said:


> Ok, HBK gets back in the ring at 19:30 and Flair stomps his ribs a few times. he then whips him hard into the corner twice. He then gives him the back suplex and then he lifts his arm up and punches him in the ribs. Then he gives him the underhook suplex and kicks him in the ribs again. Then he gives him the vertical suplex. HBK begins to take the advantage but Flair kicks him in the ribs and stops it but HBK hits the neckbreaker and regains the advantage at 22:00. This isn't enough working the ribs?


The working over was far too late in the match. Michaels injured himself like 5-7 mins into the match. By then Michaels could've regained his strength and working over the ribs could've been useless.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Killah RKO™ said:


> People asked for a flaw in the match and he's given you one.


Pretty sure WCW just proved it wasn't a flaw.


----------



## -Mystery-

I seriously think people dubbed the match 5 stars before it even happened. It didn't matter what happened in the match but because it was Flair's last match, it has to be 5 stars. Quite laughable really.


----------



## Horselover Fat

-Mystery- said:


> The working over was far too late in the match. Michaels injured himself like 5-7 mins into the match. By then Michaels could've regained his strength and working over the ribs could've been useless.


My bad, the 19:30 and 22:00 was the time on my player. I start right when HBK gets back into the ring after taking the bump. The match isn't even 22 minutes long.


----------



## SuperBrawl

Wow, clearly that isn't a flaw.


----------



## Headliner

-Mystery- said:


> I wouldn't call it a "big problem" but it certainly seperates the match from being 5 stars because 5 star matches are flawless matches and the ignoring of the ribs hurts the psychology of the match slightly thus making it "unperfect".
> 
> Honestly, I think most people already made up their minds before the match.


Oh ok. What do you give it rating wise?


----------



## -Mystery-

Headliner said:


> Oh ok. What do you give it rating wise?


****1/4 - ****1/2

It's not like I'm fucking crucifying the match and giving it something like ***.


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> I seriously think people dubbed the match 5 stars before it even happened. It didn't matter what happened in the match but because it was Flair's last match, it has to be 5 stars. Quite laughable really.


People gave the match five stars based on the pure emotion. While I gave it ****1/2, it way exceeded my expectations, as I was shocked as how great it was. Yes, there were still errors, but I can relate to people who gave it the full five because of the atmosphere and emotion overcoming the few shortcomings of the match.


----------



## SuperBrawl

In all honesty I didn't think it would be as good as it was. I never anticipated ***** out of them but hey, the match was just incredible.


----------



## -Destiny-

People gave it 5 stars because they are marks or wanted the match to be so badly to be *****. Their really is no way that can be *****.


----------



## DDMac

Killah RKO™;5559285 said:


> People gave it 5 stars because they are marks or wanted the match to be so badly to be *****. Their really is no way that can be *****.


Pretty fucking obnoxious thing to type. Your opinion isn't fact.


----------



## kennedy=god

> People gave it 5 stars because they are marks or wanted the match to be so badly to be *****. Their really is no way that can be *****.


I still haven't heard you give a legit flaw in this match :side:. I wouldn't have given it ***** if it didn't have all these things:
-Psychology (They did pretty much everything they could do in this department)
-Story telling
-Emotion
-Hot Crowd
-Great flow
-Fast paced
-Historical value
-Great finish


----------



## -Mystery-

Killah RKO™ said:


> People gave it 5 stars because they are marks or wanted the match to be so badly to be *****. Their really is no way that can be *****.


It depends on how someone rates the match. If they rate it solely on emotion and atmosphere, then it is 5 but if you factor in the match itself and the slight holes it has then I don't see it as 5 stars. Different strokes I suppose.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Why wouldn't we want Flair's match to be 5 stars?

The amazing thing about it is that he came through and pulled it off.


----------



## -Mystery-

If Flair had won and his career continued, I doubt anyone would give it 5 stars.


----------



## -Destiny-

-Mystery- said:


> It depends on how someone rates the match. If they rate it solely on emotion and atmosphere, then it is 5 but if you factor in the match itself and the slight holes it has then I don't see it as 5 stars. Different strokes I suppose.


If that exact match happened say in a regular match between say Regal and Batista at Summerslam or something I would give it a ***1/2 but because of the emotion, the moment and so on I gave it ****.


----------



## DDMac

> If Flair had won and his career continued, I doubt anyone would give it 5 stars.


That's because it wouldn't have had the incredible finish, which is rather pertinent to the overall structure of the match.


----------



## Headliner

I did see the entrances. Flair wore his 80's outfit for a reason imeho. 80's outfit=classic Flair. Classic Flair=classic match aka automatic ****+ match.

I saw a few people in the Mania thread rate Taker/Edge a little higher. Mind you, it was only a few people.


----------



## SuperBrawl

Enough of the presumtuous nonsense. Speculating what people would have rated the match based on other things happening is so ridiculous.


----------



## -Mystery-

DDMac said:


> That's because it wouldn't have had the incredible finish, which is rather pertinent to the overall structure of the match.


Match still could've had an amazing finish with Flair winning, tbh. The emotion wouldn't have been the same which is what I think you were getting at.



SuperBrawl said:


> Enough of the presumtuous nonsense. Speculating what people would have rated the match based on other things happening is so ridiculous.


This debate has been rather awesome, tbh. Probably the best debate I've seen go on around here in quite sometime.


----------



## SuperBrawl

Yeah I agree but saying....if this happened you would all be rating it ***1/2 is an outrage.


----------



## peep4life

You can't live in ifs. 
If HBK would have superkicked Flairs head off and he died in the ring than I would have given it 5 stars for sure.


----------



## -Destiny-

I was merely using it as an example of how caught up in the moment of the fact it was Flair's last match the majority appear to be.


----------



## doubledeez

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I think Nigel/Aries was a better match in the ring and it is still my vote for MOTY. Although I do give Flair/Michaels ****1/2 stars and it was my favorite match, the ring work wasn't good enough for *****.


----------



## Horselover Fat

CENA DIDN'T SELL THE LEG @ WM 23~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **1/4


----------



## KingCrash

Killah RKO™ said:


> I was merely using it as an example of how caught up in the moment of the fact it was Flair's last match the majority appear to be.


So what? Maybe the greatest wrestler ever is retiring, so what if everyone get swept up? Did I think it was *****? No, it wasn't his best, but I understand why people think it was *****.


----------



## Blasko

Found a good way to watch Mania while being a cheap bastard. 

Finlay/JBL- ***. Could have been better with these two, but still fun. 

MITB III- *** 1/2. Very fun spotfest like all the other MITBs.

Not MOTYs, not by a long shot, but Mania is looking like a great show so far.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Im not sold on that being a MOTYC. I hated the "I can't pull the trigger" storyline. Especially since the entire build up was HBK putting him out, and he still continued to fight after that moment.

And yes Flair should have worked the ribs. He hurt them on the table and than Flair didn't catch HBK on the outside on the next spot.

If anything the Triple Threat was the best match of the night, that or the MITB for various reasons. The triple threat finish was awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Flair did work on the ribs. 

The "can't pull the trigger" aspect is what made it great. It brought out "the dirtiest player in the game," who capitalized on HBK's reluctance.


----------



## Blasko

I wonder how the internet would act if Flair pulled a Ian Rotten and came back in a few months. 

Hmm.

HMMM.


----------



## The Lady Killer

I'm sure they'd still remember the 5 star classic he had against Shawn Michaels @ Mania 24.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I wonder how the internet would act if Flair pulled a Ian Rotten and came back in a few months.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> HMMM.


Hes already coming back to RAW tonight. Maybe thats why i didn't like the match. Noone ever stays retired in wrestling. Accept Stone Cold.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I wonder how the internet would act if Flair pulled a Ian Rotten and came back in a few months.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> HMMM.


There's a huge difference between the two retirements; that being Flair doesn't run his own promotion (obviously, duh). With the financial state IWA-MS is in, Ian saves himself a substantial amount of money by wrestling.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Pretty sure Austin's made many appearances since his last match.


----------



## Blasko

Mr. Wanderlei said:


> There's a huge difference between the two retirements; that being Flair doesn't run his own promotion (obviously, duh). With the financial state IWA-MS is in, Ian saves himself a substantial amount of money by wrestling.


 Ian Rotten should just take up prostitution and save himself the embarrassment.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Ian Rotten should just take up prostitution and save himself the embarrassment.


I'm nearly 100% sure he'd do it if the opportunity was there but honestly, who the hell would *pay* for that?

To go on topic, I haven't seen Mania' yet but I intend on doing so tonight before Raw. I'll post my gatherings accordingly.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> That really makes no sense, tbh. People who ignored the ribs still like giving out star ratings.


Mystery, this is why i got defensive the first time. i didn't want to be the one in Kimbo's place arguing with you


----------



## Blasko

Mr. Wanderlei said:


> I'm nearly 100% sure he'd do it if the opportunity was there but honestly, who the hell would *pay* for that?


 One REALLY sick IWA fan. 

BMX is a prime candidate.


----------



## STALKER

based on the match itself, emmotions and because it's the best two guys in wrestling i have to give iot *****.


----------



## Sephiroth

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> Hes already coming back to RAW tonight. Maybe thats why i didn't like the match. Noone ever stays retired in wrestling. Accept Stone Cold.


it's just for a retirement ceremony. Arn, Tully, JJ, Ole, and Windham (maybe others, i forget) are gonna be there to celebrate. 

that's all it is, nothing more.


----------



## Blasko

If we're giving this match ***** stars for emotion...

Kobashi Return should be re-placed at ***********.

Just saying.


----------



## -Mystery-

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> If we're giving this match ***** stars for emotion...
> 
> Kobashi Return should be re-placed at ***********.
> 
> Just saying.


Pretty much.

Also, by everyone's standards, Rock/Austin from WM 19 is now officially 5 stars.


----------



## The Lady Killer

I didn't give the match 5 stars based on emotion alone, but you definitely can't omit it when giving the match a fair rating.


----------



## kennedy=god

-Mystery- said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Also, by everyone's standards, Rock/Austin from WM 19 is now officially 5 stars.


Emotion was a huge contributor to the match being so good, but it wasn't the sole contributor for the match being that good


----------



## -GP-

*Mania*

Taker-Edge **** - would've been +1/4 if it weren't for the first minutes
Three Way ***3/4 - don't know why, it just didn't do it for me (finish was a complete surprise to me - although going 3rd from last told a lot)
MitB ***1/2 - pretty weak in the first stages despite the brilliant Morrison spot (my inner Punk mark wants to give it ***** btw)

Flair-HBK ****1/4 - finish rocked, emotion was off the charts, Shawn's facials were out of this world, as a match it was probably around the 4* mark, but i enjoyed it that bit more, and that's all that matters in the end. If that didn't matter, we wouldn't have storylines, just blokes fighting.

Reason i'm listing stuff under 4 is because there's been some debate about them

Am i the only one who wishes they never do another open stadium Mania again? Crowd noise is just lost and the sky light in the first matches kills the "big match/PPV" factor for me


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

The Lady Killer said:


> Pretty sure Austin's made many appearances since his last match.


Hasn't wrestled or even teased a wrestling match since though.


----------



## The Lady Killer

He kinda teased it when he was going to face Coach @ Taboo Tuesday '05, although that wouldn't have been an actual match. Pretty sure he's teased it a few times, including a few days ago at the Hall of Fame ceremony.

Besides, Flair isn't having a match tonight, so I don't see what the difference is.


----------



## Sephiroth

i'm sure i'll get a response from someone flaming me for mentioning this, but Larry Csonka of 411mania and Wade Keller of PWTorch gave Flair/HBK *****

"oh who fucking cares what they say"

whatever man


----------



## antoniomare007

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> If we're giving this match ***** stars for emotion...
> 
> Kobashi Return should be re-placed at ***********.
> 
> Just saying.


basically.

Flair vs Michaels was great though, just not perfect. That's all.


----------



## -Mystery-

Sephiroth said:


> i'm sure i'll get a response from someone flaming me for mentioning this, but Larry Csonka of 411mania and Wade Keller of PWTorch gave Flair/HBK *****
> 
> "oh who fucking cares what they say"
> 
> whatever man


If Meltzer gives it 5, I'll boost my rating up.


----------



## T-C

I hear the Meltz wasn't high on it and the rest of the show.


----------



## - Styles -

Anyone know what Meltzer rated it? Wiki page say 5 but based on his match by match coverage that's completely bogus. He even said the Triple threat was "Best thing on the show so far."

Edited: Damn you guys are fast.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Maybe he watched it again and changed his opinion.


----------



## Blasko

-Mystery- said:


> If Meltzer gives it 5, I'll boost my rating up.


 Yeah, where's our savior?


----------



## kennedy=god

I heard that Meltzer rated the WWE title match higher than HBK/Flair.

I usually agree with him as well.

Edit: Already posted :side:


----------



## antoniomare007

-Mystery- said:


> If Meltzer gives it 5, I'll boost my rating up.


lol.

you are kidding right?


----------



## -GP-

offcourse not. who are we to disagree with Meltzer?


----------



## -Mystery-

antoniomare007 said:


> lol.
> 
> you are kidding right?


Everyone seems to be a Flair sheep so why can't I be a Meltzer sheep?


----------



## The Lady Killer

Or maybe a lot of people happen to be actual fans of the guy....


----------



## -Mystery-

The Lady Killer said:


> Or maybe a lot of people happen to be actual fans of the guy....


I'm a fan of Flair's. I just don't think every match he works is 5 stars just because it was "emotional".


----------



## The Lady Killer

I don't think every match he works is 5 stars either. That's the first match of his anyone's given close to 5 stars in almost 20 years. I don't think it's THAT far of a stretch.


----------



## -Mystery-

I rated his match with Triple H from Survivor Series 2005 close to 5 stars and so have a good bit of people.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Really?

It was over 4 for sure, but I don't know if I thought it was close to 5. Damn good match, though, regardless. I guess my point was that people are throwing 5 stars around for every match Flair works, just because it's Flair.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

kennedy=god said:


> I heard that Meltzer rated the WWE title match higher than HBK/Flair.
> 
> I usually agree with him as well.
> 
> Edit: Already posted :side:


Wow for once i agree with Dave 110%


----------



## Blasko

Just finished, **** 1/4. Maybe even up to the 1/2 zone.


----------



## El Conquistador

-Mystery- said:


> I'm a fan of Flair's. I just don't think every match he works is 5 stars just because it was "emotional".


You take this shit way to seriously, stop being such a nerd and learn to not hate everything somebody might come to enjoy.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> Well, instead of chopping each other to no end they could of spent that time using psychology.


Okay, this hit me.

a) Wrestling psychology is designed to build a match towards a crescendo, sucking the fans in and drawing legitimate emotional involvement. Flair vs. Michaels did that for me in a major way, therefore *****.

b) Well, since one of your points was how Flair should have made it hard to breathe with his rib work, did you somehow forget that hard chops *knock the wind out of you?* With hurt ribs, a few good chops would make breathing nearly impossible, causing him to take huge painful gasps. AND Flair knew he was good at it.

Therefore it fits into the style of psychology you yourself presented.

Any other questions?


----------



## -Mystery-

Mr. Wanderlei said:


> You take this shit way to seriously, stop being such a nerd and learn to not hate everything somebody might come to enjoy.


Where did I say I hated Michaels/Flair? I gave well over 4 stars for Chris sakes. By the way, the same could be said about every single person in this thread who has shit on my opinion because I thought it wasn't 5 stars. Perhaps you should read everything before you post.

You present a very good point Dragon, one of which I didn't think of. However, even with that said, I still can't call the match 5 stars. Yes, I do need to re-watch the match though. I suppose it really comes down to tastes really. Some people were sucked into the match emotionally and others like myself weren't. To be completely honest, I found myself more emotionally invested into Taker/Edge than I was Flair/Michaels.


----------



## The Lady Killer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Okay, this hit me.
> 
> a) Wrestling psychology is designed to build a match towards a crescendo, sucking the fans in and drawing legitimate emotional involvement. Flair vs. Michaels did that for me in a major way, therefore *****.
> 
> b) Well, since one of your points was how Flair should have made it hard to breathe with his rib work, did you somehow forget that hard chops *knock the wind out of you?* With hurt ribs, a few good chops would make breathing nearly impossible, causing him to take huge painful gasps. AND Flair knew he was good at it.
> 
> Therefore it fits into the style of psychology you yourself presented.
> 
> Any other questions?


Yeah, I thought the hard chops were an obvious way of impeding HBK's breathing, but apparently not. Good post.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> Where did I say I hated Michaels/Flair? I gave well over 4 stars for Chris sakes. By the way, the same could be said about every single person in this thread who has shit on my opinion because I thought it wasn't 5 stars. Perhaps you should read everything before you post.


You were coming off as both super-smarky and condescending about it, therefore the backlash.

Your argument basically came down to:

"Flair didn't use enough MOVEZ to attack the RIBS using mad PSYCHOLOGY~!"

While others were saying that there were other factors involved than that, some based in the match and some in the atmosphere. Also, you started deriding the people who WERE rating it ***** well before anyone cared what you thought, so playing the "Why is everyone ganging up on me for having an opinion?" card doesn't work either.


----------



## bmxmadb53

Alright I don't mean to piss anyone off, but I think that Flair vs. Hbk was extremely lack luster. Everyone expected it to "STEAL THE SHOW" In my opinion, it didn't do that. A lot of people have raved about how great the match was and I've watched it twice now. I'll give it ***3/4. It was an extremely emotional match for flair, hbk, and every single person watching, but the actual match was missing something. To give the match 5 stars is absurd. There was at least one botch in the match and that by itself should be enough to knock it down maybe not as far down as I have it, but below 5 stars.


----------



## Word

Take the "chops" for what they are worth. Maybe it was to attack the ribs, maybe it wasn't. I think everyone is just breaking the match down into silly minor detail. It won't change anyones mind. It's like WM XX Triple Threat. Some people give it the full *****, others dont. I don't think anyone will be persuaded to have the match at *****.

If you weren't in the match emotionally and didn't feel the psychology, story telling as a ***** match then so be it. I don't think this should boil down to "chops".

EDIT

bmxmadb - What "Stole The Show" for you? Don't say the Triple Threat and if you do im assuming your a 15 year old kid who hates Cena to the death.


----------



## The Lady Killer

There have been matches with a minor botch that still receive 5 stars, you know. I'm assuming you're referring to the second moonsault, which didn't take away from the match at all.


----------



## -Mystery-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> You were coming off as both super-smarky and condescending about it, therefore the backlash.
> 
> Your argument basically came down to:
> 
> "Flair didn't use enough MOVEZ to attack the RIBS using mad PSYCHOLOGY~!"
> 
> While others were saying that there were other factors involved than that, some based in the match and some in the atmosphere. Also, you started deriding the people who WERE rating it ***** well before anyone cared what you thought, so playing the "Why is everyone ganging up on me for having an opinion?" card doesn't work either.


I personally felt that the match might have flowed a bit better had Flair just worked over the ribs and not used chops or anything. I thought that he could've worked over the ribs thus draining Michaels of energy then when he's right where Flair wants him, Flair can start working over his leg(s). Then, when Flair was ready to lock on the figure four, Michaels' would've already been drained and the pain of the hold on his leg(s) would've given him no other choice but to tap. 

Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.

My response of everyone shitting on my opinion was a reponse to M.W. pretty much insinuating that I was the only person "putting down" people's opinions which isn't true. However, that's a petty issue which really doesn't deserve any attention.


----------



## bmxmadb53

The Lady Killer said:


> There have been matches with a minor botch that still receive 5 stars, you know. I'm assuming you're referring to the second moonsault, which didn't take away from the match at all.


Yes I was referring to the second moonsault. Yes it did take away from the match. He completely missed flair and he made no attempt to catch hbk. They both just kinda crashed. I was ROFL.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Didn't WCW explain how he worked the ribs on multiple occasions?

edit - He caught Flair with his foot. Had he landed on Flair it could've seriously hurt both of them.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I'm kind of in shock that "botched moves" is still coming into play on star ratings. It's one thing for a botched spot in a spot-based match. In the context of a match where storytelling and emotion take precedent, however, it should not really be a factor.

Faults are all about context, and context is determined by the kind of match the participants are going for.

I can't believe there's still a need to say this.

EDIT: To clarify.

I have a big problem with the way a number of people online (and this goes for guys like Keith too) will deride a match for a single mistake which was fairly harmless within the overall picture. For a while it seemed to get as though star ratings were just ***** - however many botches there were, which seems pointless to me. It's one thing if there's consistantly bad execution, but it's another entirely if it's an isolated incident that means little in the overall structure of the match. 

So yeah, pet peeve.


----------



## Word

bmxmadb53 said:


> Yes I was referring to the second moonsault. Yes it did take away from the match. He completely missed flair and he made no attempt to catch hbk. They both just kinda crashed. I was ROFL.


SHIT~!~!~!~ Bret no sold at WM 13, its not *****. 

Botch & no selling small things like that don't stop it from being *****.


----------



## -Mystery-

Word said:


> SHIT~!~!~!~ Bret no sold at WM 13, its not *****.
> 
> Botch & no selling small things like that don't stop it from being *****.


You seem to be saying that like it's fact. Everyone has a different criteria for rating matches and perhaps in his criteria a match that's 5 stars has to be flawless meaning not small botches or whatever.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> I personally felt that the match might have flowed a bit better had Flair just worked over the ribs and not used chops or anything. I thought that he could've worked over the ribs thus draining Michaels of energy then when he's right where Flair wants him, Flair can start working over his leg(s). Then, when Flair was ready to lock on the figure four, Michaels' would've already been drained and the pain of the hold on his leg(s) would've given him no other choice but to tap.
> 
> Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.
> 
> My response of everyone shitting on my opinion was a reponse to M.W. pretty much insinuating that I was the only person "putting down" people's opinions which isn't true. However, that's a petty issue which really doesn't deserve any attention.


I can see where you're coming from, but imo, you weren't conveying it well and got waaaaaaaaay too heated very quickly, causing things to go downhill from there.

Basically, had you dropped it earlier, I don't think anyone would still care.

But yeah, I see your point, but then...what else does Flair have to work the ribs? I can't think of anything in his repetoire to do that, and he's not at a point where he should be adding to his moveset. I thought the use of the chops worked well in the sense of "There's a weakness here, but I can't figure out how to go at it other than just clubbing away. I KNOW that'll work, so what the hell?"

Do you see what I mean? I hope so, because after this, barring something really notable being brought up as a point of debate I'm putting it in a realm of 'agree to disagree'.


----------



## The Lady Killer

He did more than chop, though.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/5559230-post371.html


----------



## Word

-Mystery- said:


> You seem to be saying that like it's fact. Everyone has a different criteria for rating matches and perhaps in his criteria a match that's 5 stars has to be flawless meaning not small botches or whatever.


Well then he will never have a ***** match. I still can't believe the number of people who have said Flair/Michaels is *****. The bandwagon has begun. Don't get me wrong it was a classic match but *****? Meh, will have to watch it again.


----------



## El Conquistador

I don't have a problem realizing you have your own perspective on the match but you were way to over the top on bashing anybody who rated it higher than yourself. The approach and direction you went about presenting your arguement was way to brash and snobby.

I find it funny how modest your response to UnholyDragon was.

As it relates to the match, I don't believe I'll ever be able to rate it properly. The emotion is *so* overwhelming that I can't piece together a valid point as to why it should or shouldn't receive five stars.


----------



## Horselover Fat

This match is being over analyzed way too much. It's kinda sad that when a truly great moment happens for the first time in years that we can't sit back and enjoy it but instead we have to spend 25 pages arguing over whether it's ****1/2 or *****.


----------



## Word

So I'm guessing Michaels/Flair is taking all the thunder from other great matches such as MITB IV and Edge/Undertaker which btw was amazing.

KIMBO - The match is being over analyzed? I agree totally.


----------



## -Mystery-

It's called debating, get used to it.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Attempting objectivity- Flair vs. Michaels was **** - **** 1/4. This is if we apply the same criteria to any match and ignore the situation, judging just on what most will agree are the makings of a good match.

Michaels and Flair built an awesome story. Michaels was a clearly superior talent at this point, but Flair hurt the ribs and legs. Ribs were meant to even the playing feild and Flair worked them over fairly well. Why was Michaels still so dominant he could win any time then? Doesn't seem like the rib injury did it's storyline job then. Next, the leg work. Flair is a huge vet. He knows which leg Michaels uses for Sweet Chin Music and that it's a killer finisher. How about working that leg? Or even if not, shouldn't the other leg and broken ribs impede at least some of those Sweet Chin Musics and prevent shit like a kip up. Now, that can be blown off as minor, if you see Flair's attempts to win and strategy as minor...

None of the work Flair does plays into the finish. It's as if Michaels can finish at any time, which undermines all the work put in earlier. The finish should build to a logical conclusion while incorporating all the elements earlier in the match. 

Like I said earlier- invent a separate category for matches like this and the Kobashi match. They're fantastic and don't need the star ratings to be as special as they are.


----------



## Word

-Mystery- said:


> It's called debating, get used to it.


Yeah but clearly get overworked by the fact that the other members give it the full 5 and you don't. Its getting a little more than a debate.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Nah, it's called bickering. Just look at your usertitle. What the fuck is wrong with you?


----------



## -Mystery-

KIMBO said:


> Nah, it's called bickering. Just look at your usertitle. What the fuck is wrong with you?


So, I now have to conform my usertitle to your liking? It's clearly a stab at my OPINION that some people are sheeps to Flair. Again, just my opinion.


----------



## Spartanlax

I'm not getting involved in any debates, it's just not worth it. All I'm saying is; the Flair/HBK match was special, especially the last 20 seconds. I couldn't stop weeping, and every time I watch that final kick, I start crying again. If a match can evoke that kind of emotion, regardless of situation or tiny botches or semi-lack of selling, I don't care.

Five stars. *****. 10/10


----------



## doubledeez

Anyone know Meltzer's rating for Flair/Michaels because on wikipedia it says *****, but on the observer website he was complaining about how the match wasn't the proper send off.


----------



## Headliner

I really want to hear Meltzer's reasoning for it not being a proper send off. What, facing an up and coming talent or someone like Carlito is the proper send off?


----------



## Blasko

Well, this thread just gained srs biznezz status...


----------



## Saint Dick

Meltzer didn't like the match, that's his opinion, so what?

I can understand why people are giving it 5* but I myself don't have it at that rating. The very highest I'd go is ****3/4, at the moment I'm thinking ****1/2. 

I don't know how to explain it but it's one of those matches where its greatness can't be accurately assessed with a star rating. I don't think it's a ***** bout but even so I still think it's one of the greatest professional wrestling matches of all time. It's hard to explain. Anyone see what I'm getting at?


----------



## Headliner

I'm really not upset or talking about the match itself. I just want to know why Meltzer didn't think it was a good send off when pretty much everyone else did. I know he has an opinion, I just want to see how valid it is.


----------



## Taroostyles

I think some people may be rating the HBK/Flair a little too generously, but if they feel like it was 5*, then that's fine by me.

For me, if I gave that match 5*, I would have to bump up about 200 matches I can think of that were better that I didn't give 5*.

I love Flair as much as the next guy, but people were already giving this match 5* before the bell even rang. I also don't really just buy into the "emotional" card either, Bret/Benoit was 100 times more emotional and it was a much better wrestling match and I still didn't give that match 5*. 

As for people wondering about Meltzer, I guarantee he doesn't give it more than ****-****1/4.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

PulseGlazer said:


> Attempting objectivity- Flair vs. Michaels was **** - **** 1/4. This is if we apply the same criteria to any match and ignore the situation, judging just on what most will agree are the makings of a good match.
> 
> Michaels and Flair built an awesome story. Michaels was a clearly superior talent at this point, but Flair hurt the ribs and legs. Ribs were meant to even the playing feild and Flair worked them over fairly well. Why was Michaels still so dominant he could win any time then? Doesn't seem like the rib injury did it's storyline job then. Next, the leg work. Flair is a huge vet. He knows which leg Michaels uses for Sweet Chin Music and that it's a killer finisher. How about working that leg? Or even if not, shouldn't the other leg and broken ribs impede at least some of those Sweet Chin Musics and prevent shit like a kip up. Now, that can be blown off as minor, if you see Flair's attempts to win and strategy as minor...
> 
> None of the work Flair does plays into the finish. It's as if Michaels can finish at any time, which undermines all the work put in earlier. The finish should build to a logical conclusion while incorporating all the elements earlier in the match.
> 
> Like I said earlier- invent a separate category for matches like this and the Kobashi match. They're fantastic and don't need the star ratings to be as special as they are.


See, THAT'S the best argument I've heard for the case.

And to be honest, I more or less completely agree the more I read it.

Well said.


----------



## MMA

Flair/HBK is already the MOTY. I mean, how is anyone seriously disputing this? Also, ranking it less than five stars is, quite frankly, preposterous.  The 'botched' moonsaults made sense because the first one was totally unexpected and I thought HBK like busted his lungs or something. The second one his leg hit Flair's face and he couldn't get enough momentum since his ribs were injured. I mean the whole match was great if you're gonna lower it a star that's really disrespectful to the spectacle these two men put on, and HBK even did stuff he normally wouldn't do but he put his body on the line just to give Flair the best match he could. Props to these two. After that I was really glad I spent money on the WM. I don't remember EVER crying during a wrestling event but I did at the end, HBK's line was a CLASSIC. Just a CLASSIC match all around. Not only is it MOTY it may just be GMOAT. After that match the star rating scale went up a star. That match was ****** for sure. Simply giving it FIVE STARS wouldn't even do it justice, imo. Giving it lower than FIVE STARS is just borderline insanity.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Its the storyline that still kills it for me, i hate that whole "I can't pull the trigger" in any situation. If he couldn't pull the trigger he should have tapped out.


----------



## -Mystery-

Look I respect people calling it 5 stars but saying it's MOTY when we are only at April is completely stupid.


----------



## Blasko

-Mystery- said:


> Look I respect people calling it 5 stars but saying it's MOTY when we are only at April is completely stupid.


 WWE fans don't see a lot of matches like these in the years, IMO.


----------



## Horselover Fat

PulseGlazer said:


> None of the work Flair does plays into the finish. *It's as if Michaels can finish at any time, which undermines all the work put in earlier.* The finish should build to a logical conclusion while incorporating all the elements earlier in the match.


This is a good analysis. The only problem I have with it is that Flair let HBK beat him. I thought that was pretty obvious.


----------



## gusbarba

ROH - McGuinness vs Aries
WWE - Flair vs HBK
Angle vs Nagata


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> Look I respect people calling it 5 stars but saying it's MOTY when we are only at April is completely stupid.


That's how I feel, if someone liked the match that much, then I have no problem with them giving it *****. 

I just don't feel the same way. It seems like people giving it the 5* are the ones who have a problem with people who aren't.


----------



## Saint Dick

MMA said:


> Flair/HBK is already the MOTY. I mean, how is anyone seriously disputing this? Also, ranking it less than five stars is, quite frankly, preposterous.  The 'botched' moonsaults made sense because the first one was totally unexpected and I thought HBK like busted his lungs or something. The second one his leg hit Flair's face and he couldn't get enough momentum since his ribs were injured. I mean the whole match was great if you're gonna lower it a star that's really disrespectful to the spectacle these two men put on, and HBK even did stuff he normally wouldn't do but he put his body on the line just to give Flair the best match he could. Props to these two. After that I was really glad I spent money on the WM. I don't remember EVER crying during a wrestling event but I did at the end, HBK's line was a CLASSIC. Just a CLASSIC match all around. *Not only is it MOTY it may just be GMOAT. After that match the star rating scale went up a star. That match was ****** for sure. Simply giving it FIVE STARS wouldn't even do it justice, imo. Giving it lower than FIVE STARS is just borderline insanity.*


STFU plz.


----------



## Victarion

I don't see the reason for all the "debating" no one's gonna change there minds at this time.
I personally thought it was ***** maybe I'll wathc it again in a few days and judge it different or maybe it'll still be ***** who knows.

The thing everyone (apart from Meltzer apparently?) can agree on is that it was a great send off for Ric Flair.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I didn't see Mania, but I heard Flairs match was fantastic.

On an ROH note, I would like to say that Kevin Steen and El Generico against Masato Yoshino and Naruki Doi is my current MOTY. ****3/4 from what I thought after viewing it live. Others at the show said *****, but I am not giving it that. Very good inovation. Nice series of one uping each other. And AMAZING near falls. Missed out on some psycology, but that is expected when not all parties speak the same language.


----------



## watts63

As of 3/31/08

*PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4

ROH Proving Ground
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Edge vs. Undertaker ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Gran Akuma & Icarus vs. Solider & Fire Ant ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
Human Tornado vs. Candice LaRae ****-****1/4

PWG Pearl Habra
Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #80
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma & Yasushi Kanda vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk, YAMATO, Cyber Kong & Shinobu ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & Ryusuke Taguchi ****-****1/4

PWG Pearl Habra
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado ****

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom II
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****

DG The Gate of Generation
SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 3
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Human Tornado vs. SHINGO, Austin Aries, Jack Evans & Cyber Kong *****​


----------



## odm

without getting into the meltzer bashing, are his ratings for the mania matches out anywhere (other than the observer)?


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I must see that DG tag with Taiji


----------



## Sephiroth

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I must see that DG tag with Taiji


it's in the other media section


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Oh im so psyched now  Thanks.

Actually a cool idea to keep track of the MOTYC's and so everyone can have good judgment would be a stickied thread in the media section with all the matches uploaded for everyone to see.


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I'm kind of in shock that "botched moves" is still coming into play on star ratings. It's one thing for a botched spot in a spot-based match. In the context of a match where storytelling and emotion take precedent, however, it should not really be a factor.
> 
> Faults are all about context, and context is determined by the kind of match the participants are going for.
> 
> I can't believe there's still a need to say this.
> 
> EDIT: To clarify.
> 
> I have a big problem with the way a number of people online (and this goes for guys like Keith too) will deride a match for a single mistake which was fairly harmless within the overall picture. For a while it seemed to get as though star ratings were just ***** - however many botches there were, which seems pointless to me. It's one thing if there's consistantly bad execution, but it's another entirely if it's an isolated incident that means little in the overall structure of the match.
> 
> So yeah, pet peeve.


I agree. A good example of what your saying is Sasuke/Liger from J-Cup '94. HUGE botch in the finish but that doesn't stop it from being a match of the highest caliber in my eyes. Doesn't matter what match it is no match has ever truly been "perfect". If you want to get anal about every little detail i'm sure you could find something that could have been done better in any match.

That being said I still need to see Flair/HBK, hopefully i'll have Mania downloaded and viewed by Wednesday or Thursday.


----------



## Emarosa

I find it funny that people are rating HBK/Flair as a normal pro-wrestling match when it's clearly anything but. The reason it's rated at ***** is due to the story, yet people still are running around getting mad over a botched move. And people wonder why indy marks get a bad reputation.


----------



## -Mystery-

-ShowStopper- said:


> I find it funny that people are rating HBK/Flair as a normal pro-wrestling match when it's clearly anything but. The reason it's rated at ***** is due to the story, yet people still are running around getting mad over a botched move. And people wonder why indy marks get a bad reputation.


I can't help but be objective. If I rate Michaels/Flair as "more than a normal match", then I have to go back and give matches like Kobashi's return, Austin/Rock from WM 19, and Benoit/Hart from Nitro all 5 stars despite me feeling the contrary.


----------



## Dirk Pepper

Ok really all i can do is rate WWE Matches as MOTY's.

I never really get to witness any good Indy matches, So does anyone have any recommended matches that i should watch? (I love high flying hardcore matches)

But so far it has to be Flair/HBK MOTY for me.


----------



## Destiny

MOTY so far is Flair VS Michaels ~ Wrestlemania 24


----------



## Emarosa

-Mystery- said:


> I can't help but be objective. If I rate Michaels/Flair as "more than a normal match", then I have to go back and give matches like Kobashi's return, Austin/Rock from WM 19, and Benoit/Hart from Nitro all 5 stars despite me feeling the contrary.


The whole point of the star rating system is to give a *personal* opinion. It's impossible to give a purely objective opinion. You can attempt to be objective but at some level an element of subjectivety has to come into play.


----------



## Ste

Taker/Edge - ****1/4-****1/2
Cena/HHH/Orton - ***3/4
Flair/HBK - ****1/2
MITB - ****


----------



## ROH

MMA said:


> if you're gonna lower it a star that's really disrespectful to the spectacle these two men put on


What the Hell. Is this a joke?


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA King of Trios Night Three*
Eddie Kingston, Ruckus & Joker vs. Delirous, Hallowicked & Helios ****


----------



## -Destiny-

I'm going to get slated but I am able to see where I was wrong...

...Basically re-watched Wrestlemania replay last night with my mate and tbh...

Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/2


----------



## Word

Edge vs. Undertaker
Wrestlemania 24
****1/2

If Cole & Coach could commentate and have good chemistry, I wouldn't of found the first 10 minutes quite dull. The fans weren't too great either. I thought though that it was a great way to end an amazing PPV and the story telling was superb. I could go lower by 1/4* but seeing how I thought Edge would do it, the amazing finishers where they kicked out, no interference (Hawkins & Ryder didn't do much and added more pace) we truely had the best main event since WM XX.


----------



## -Destiny-

Word said:


> Edge vs. Undertaker
> Wrestlemania 24
> ****1/2
> 
> If Cole & Coach could commentate and have good chemistry, I wouldn't of found the first 10 minutes quite dull. The fans weren't too great either. I thought though that it was a great way to end an amazing PPV and the story telling was superb. I could go lower by 1/4* but seeing how I thought Edge would do it, the amazing finishers where they kicked out, no interference (Hawkins & Ryder didn't do much and added more pace) we truely had the best main event since WM XX.


If the start of the match had been what it should of been I think my rating of ***3/4 would have been alot higher. The last 10-12 minutes of the match really made it for me though. BTW, Cole needs JBL, BADLY.


----------



## Word

I think Coach was pissed off that night, again. I think he feels that being put as Smackdown commentator is a slap in the face with him. I don't even feel that he said a word in the MITB match and he only commentated in the main event. If he is going to be like this, he should just be taken away. Coach and Cole are too alike, over emphasizing things left, right and centre. They need someone like Lawler or JBL. I would say have Tazz back with him. ECW isn't doing him much justice tbh.


----------



## ROH Fan #1

Edge Undertaker was not as good as HBK Flair, period. 

I have HBK Flair on ****3/4 and Edge Taker on ****1/4.

HBK Flair was not *****, although if you give it to it, I can understand it completely. For Example as someone mentioned WM XX, Benoit vs. HHH vs. HBK was *****.


----------



## Saint Dick

Every time I watch HBK/Flair I end up with a different rating in my head. I think for now I'm going to settle on ****3/4 because it wasn't quite a ***** wrestling match but the story those two men told in the ring made it nearly perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if my rating changed the next time I watch it but for now I'm saying ****3/4. MOTY so far.


----------



## SuperBrawl

At least you keep heading in the right direction


----------



## -Destiny-

I must have been watching a different match than everyone else (Taker/Edge). So far I have seen only one person give it the same as me, ****1/4-****1/2 seems to be the popular rating.


----------



## The Lady Killer

It started off way too slowly. It was still a great match in the end, but the slow start hurt it a bit.


----------



## Word

Killah RKO™ said:


> I must have been watching a different match than everyone else (Taker/Edge). So far I have seen only one person give it the same as me, ****1/4-****1/2 seems to be the popular rating.


If the commentary was there it wouldn't of dragged so much.


----------



## SuperBrawl

How long did Taker/Edge end up going like 20 minutes?


----------



## -Destiny-

Just under 24 minutes.


----------



## The Lady Killer

If the WWE title match had been allowed that much time it would've OWNED.


----------



## papermache16

The Lady Killer said:


> If the WWE title match had been allowed that much time it would've OWNED.


Agreed.

If they plan triple threats out very well, and don't just settle for the "out of the ring, one on one, etc." habit that they fall into, you get great triple threat matches. Besides the obvious XX main event, Cena/CC/Y2J @ Vengeance 05 was my favorite triple threat match because of how little they did the one on one stuff. The triple threat match on Sunday had great elements and other things that make a triple threat match really good, but for me the ending was a little bit flat. It could be because I find Triple H's Pedigree to be one of the slowest, easiest- countering finishers out there.


----------



## -GP-

Word said:


> If the commentary was there it wouldn't of dragged so much.


oh yes.

i hope they re-evaluate JBL's place in the company, because another major match with Jonathan "Captain Obvious" Coachman doing colour for Michael "I'm calling it 'That move' because i don't know its name" Cole (aka Mr. Repetition) will lead me to hard liquor...


----------



## Word

Did Coach say anything is MITB IV?


----------



## Victarion

I didn't hear him speak.
He seemed like he didn't want to be there.


----------



## Word

*WWE 2008 MOTYC*

1. Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - *****3/4*

2. Edge vs. Undertaker - *****1/4*

3. MITB IV - *****1/4*

4. RAW Elimination Chamber - ******

5. SD Elimination Chamber - ****3/4*

6. Orton/Triple H/Cena - ****3/4*

7. Orton/Cena - ****3/4*

8. Royal Rumble - ****1/2*

9. Edge/Mysterio - ****1/2*

10. MVP/Batista - ****1/2*

From a WWE standpoint, a great year so far which looks to be improving a lot.


----------



## Taroostyles

I'm assuming you meant ****3/4 for Flair/HBK, not *****3/4.


----------



## Word

Taroostyles said:


> I'm assuming you meant ****3/4 for Flair/HBK, not *****3/4.


Some would probably say its that good.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Just watched KENTA/Ishimori v Hulk/Shingo and thought it was really good. Probably ****-****1/4 for rating which would fit into my top 5 at this point, although I've yet to see Morishima v Misawa. 

Shawn v Flair's still my number 1 though.


----------



## -Destiny-

Flair/Michaels is the best wrestling match that I've seen all year, although Cena/Orton and MITB are my favourites.


----------



## instantclassic27

HBK/Flair & Edge/Taker are the best matches so far this year imo


----------



## Headliner

I watched HBK/Flair and all I can say is wow. I think people need to realize that Flair is nearly 60 years old and this isn't 1989 so a few of the apparent minor 'mishaps' really shouldn't be so over analyzed. Plus I think some people really don't have their standards right. A WWE style match is a WWE style match. A ROH/Indy style match is a ROH style match and they really can't be rated the same. I think a few people don't realize that and tend to rate WWE matches lower just from that standpoint quite honestly.

btw don't have a 'rating' for it. I'm really not into rates that much anyway.


----------



## Horselover Fat

I actually rate indy matches lower, mostly because they take place in high school gyms and involve 450 splashes done by guys that aren't good enough to be in the WWE.

edit; besides Bryan Danielson


----------



## bstaple12

KIMBO said:


> I actually rate indy matches lower, mostly because they take place in high school gyms and involve 450 splashes done by guys that aren't good enough to be in the WWE.
> 
> edit; besides Bryan Danielson


You have to be fuckin kidding me.


----------



## vivalabrave

*feels the shift of this thread about to turn*


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

KIMBO said:


> I actually rate indy matches lower, mostly because they take place in high school gyms and involve 450 splashes done by guys that aren't good enough to be in the WWE.
> 
> edit; besides Bryan Danielson


April fools?

Cause that is the funniest shit i heard all day.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

vivalabrave said:


> *feels the shift of this thread about to turn*


As soon as I read that post I thought the exact same thing. I actually LOLed at it as well.

And yeah, that statement does seem pretty nuts. I expect KIMBO to be e-raped... assuming he was serious of course.


----------



## ROH

KIMBO said:


> I actually rate indy matches lower, mostly because they take place in high school gyms and involve 450 splashes done by guys that aren't good enough to be in the WWE.
> 
> edit; besides Bryan Danielson


If you're trolling then wow, you're stupid.


----------



## -Destiny-

WOW

I sense 'ROH' is biting his tongue so hard right now.

I mean don't get me wrong I prefer WWE to ROH but ROH is alot more than what it was just described as.


----------



## Sephiroth

vivalabrave said:


> *feels the shift of this thread about to turn*


*waits for -Mystery-*

this should be funny


----------



## Horselover Fat

You guys are WAY too easy. :lmao

I only hate the Briscoe Brothers.

And Jimmy Jacobs.


----------



## bstaple12

Wow, you got me.


----------



## Blasko

KIMBO said:


> I only hate the Briscoe Brothers.


 Come on, maaaaaaan.

How can you NOT like the MOVEZ~!


----------



## Horselover Fat

Having a ******* gimmick but being billed from Delaware shows their lack of commitment towards kayfabe.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Come on, maaaaaaan.
> 
> How can you NOT like the MOVEZ~!


I personally prefer the no selling.


----------



## Blasko

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I personally prefer the no selling.


 And the spots without meaning?


----------



## Sephiroth

KIMBO said:


> Having a ******* gimmick but being billed from Delaware shows their lack of commitment towards kayfabe.


i live in Iowa and there are ******** here. it doesn't matter the state, just as long as there is white trash there.

besides, The Briscoes raise pitbulls, talk like hicks, and have the confederate flag plastered everywhere. what's not to love?


----------



## Horselover Fat

The more highspots, the more stars I give.



> i live in Iowa and there are ******** here. it doesn't matter the state, just as long as there is white trash there.
> 
> besides, The Briscoes raise pitbulls, talk like hicks, and have the confederate flag plastered everywhere. what's not to love?


Sounds like a poorman's version of the freebirds to me.


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> i live in Iowa and there are ******** here. it doesn't matter the state, just as long as there is white trash there.


 Are you the king of white trash, by any chance? 

And you forgot get in motorcycle accidents and get tattoos.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Are you the king of white trash, by any chance?
> 
> And you forgot get in motorcycle accidents and get tattoos.


hell no. i'm a stud. dont wanna brag, but it's true. bitches love it


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Are you the king of white trash, by any chance?
> 
> And you forgot get in motorcycle accidents and get tattoos.


Don't forget not having teeth or the ability to speak english.


----------



## -Destiny-

The Briscoes are fun to watch. But I suppose 'fun' cant compare to the awesomeness of Storytelling.

Storytelling > You


----------



## Horselover Fat

You're completely off base as usual.


----------



## -Destiny-

Nah, you're criticising wrestlers because they do high moves that are entertaning and dissing their moves, without moves you don't get matches.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Too much of anything gets boring. The same holds true with wrestling. Storylines have nothing to do with it. A good wrestler can do a vertical suplex and get ten times the reaction that the Briscoes get for any of their MOVEZ~!


----------



## -Destiny-

Each to their own I guess. Still no reason to bash a team that arguably puts their body on the line as much if not more than any other team in the wrestling business.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Nevermind.


----------



## Horselover Fat

I wasn't trying to bash them, I was just saying I didn't care for them. They do put their bodies on the line but they really need to tone it down. In lieu of the Benoit situation and all of the discoveries regarding post concussion syndrome in athletes watching them wrestle is scary. They're stuck in a never ending cycle of trying to top themselves which is only going to get more dangerous. They need to realize that they can entertain people without killing themselves every night.


----------



## Sephiroth

The Briscoe remarks from Kimbo are justified. They try to do everything each match and you get kind of burned out to it. 

It was awesome when they wrestled MCMG and went all out, but it gets old after they do that twice with Steenerico, 3 times with AOTF, once against NRC, Sydal/Claudio, and whatever matches they had from Feb 07 - Dec 07. the only ones that truly stand out to me looking back at the year is their MCMG match, Jay & Stevens (and eventually Mark) vs. Steenerico from Fighting Spirit, Ladder War, and against AOTF at Final Battle. the rest is like a blur to me. i could lay out a match for you and you could name off teams they fought last year and i wouldn't need to change the lay out of the match because that's how all Briscoes matches go.

they are fucking awesome tho and are insane to see live, so no disrespect to them.


----------



## El Conquistador

WWE Wrestlemania 24 (03-30-08): Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels -- *****

WWE Wrestlemania 24 (03-30-08): Money in the Bank -- ****

WWE Wrestlemania 24 (03-30-08): Triple H vs. John Cena vs. Randy Orton -- ***1/2

WWE Wrestlemania 24 (03-30-08): Edge vs. Undertaker -- ***3/4


----------



## straightedge015

KIMBO said:


> Too much of anything gets boring. The same holds true with wrestling. Storylines have nothing to do with it. *A good wrestler can do a vertical suplex and get ten times the reaction that the Briscoes get for any of their MOVEZ~!*


I think Ric Flair did that at Wrestlemania.


----------



## -GP-

straightedge015 said:


> I think Ric Flair did that at Wrestlemania.


Flair can throw a *chop* and get reactions most wrestlers only dream of, so yeah...


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

GP_Punk said:


> Flair can throw a *chop* and get reactions most wrestlers only dream of, so yeah...


Hell other people can chop and Flair gets the reaction.


----------



## Thisskateboarding

With the botches in the Flair/HBK match im surprised nobody has said anything about when they screwed up the part where they tried to chain wrestle an HBK an Flair couldnt get the bridge up out of the pin attempt


----------



## Horselover Fat

Tons of people have said things about that.


----------



## vivalabrave

Flair hasn't been able to do his part in that sequence for years. When they started the beggining of it with the headlock I kind of groaned knowing what was coming.

No offense to Flair though. I just hate when he tries that.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Shawn probably legit couldn't do the sequence after almost killing himself on that table anyway. 

That specific 'botch' never hurt the match in my eyes as, if anything, it fit with the story and psychology; intentional or otherwise.


----------



## McQueen

KIMBO said:


> Too much of anything gets boring. The same holds true with wrestling. Storylines have nothing to do with it. A good wrestler can do a vertical suplex and get ten times the reaction that the Briscoes get for any of their MOVEZ~!


This would be a reason i've been more into wrestling from the 70's, 80's or 90's lately. Can't beat fans who are actually willing to believe in what they are watching. Damn the wrestling business for killing kayfabe.

I'm still LOL'ing over everyone creaming their pants over Briscoes/MCMG from last year. That match got fucking rediculous in the last 10 minutes and everyone was claiming it to be the greatest thing ever. I didn't much care for the ladder war either, I couldn't get over the rediculousness of the spots they were doing.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I didn't actually mind the ladder war, but I really disliked the MCMG match. I thought it was good, but it just seems so overrated to me. For a match with so much supposed excitement, I was just bored for quite a bit of it.

I can see why people would like it, and like I said, I think it was good and all... just not to the extent that some people do.


----------



## Oceansized

Watched Flair/Michaels for the second time last night. 
I don't think the bridge-up bit hurt the match at all, it added more belief that Michaels was hurt from the chops and moonsault.
One thing that effected the match a bit for me was when Michaels put Flair in a "figure 4". I didn't know whether he was supposed to do it wrong or if he fucked it up, but it looked about as painful as sitting down with your legs crossed. 

Awesome awesome match though! My MOTY so far. 

****1/2


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I don't think it was a figure 4, I'm pretty sure it was the submisiion move he had been using in recent months. Sort of an inverted figuure 4.

I agree with the ****1/2 rating anyway. My MOTY also.


----------



## Sephiroth

Yeah, HBK was using the inverted Figure Four that James Gibson taught him (if I remember correctly)


----------



## KeepItFresh

Yeah, HBK has been using that submission for a few months now.

The only thing that hurt the match for me was when Ric Flair reacted late to a punch.

Still I gave the match ****3/4.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Him reacting late to a punch made you drop it 1/4* or did that have any effect at all?


----------



## KeepItFresh

Didn't effect the rating. It was just the only mishap I remember from the match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Just watched HBK/Flair again. My rating for it after 3 viewings was ****1/2, but now I'm considering going ****3/4. It just gets better every damn time I watch it. I can understand why people would think "It's only been rated so highly coz it's Michaels & Flair at 'Mania!", but that argument just doesn't fly with me. Different strokes though, I guess.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

My whole thing is with the way Micheals has been lately i think ive seen him do better. I enjoyed his match on RAW with Cena this year more(Dispite the shitty ending).


----------



## Maxx Hero

Wow, people that agree with me that The Briscoes/MCMG match was not ***** material. It is reasons like this that I am glad I quit the ROH forum and came here. Over there they excommunicate you for speaking against the Briscoes or anything they have ever touched. 

I gave it a **** at first viewing, but last week I bumped it to ****1/2.

Best part was when one of the Briscoes sold Alex Shelley spitting water in his face. One of the rare times they have ever sold, and by far the best sell of theirs I have ever seen.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Maxx Hero said:


> Wow, people that agree with me that The Briscoes/MCMG match was not ***** material. It is reasons like this that I am glad I quit the ROH forum and came here. Over there they excommunicate you for speaking against the Briscoes or anything they have ever touched.
> 
> I gave it a **** at first viewing, but last week I bumped it to ****1/2.
> 
> Best part was when one of the Briscoes sold Alex Shelley spitting water in his face. One of the rare times they have ever sold, and by far the best sell of theirs I have ever seen.


What the one from last year, i actually rated it as my favorite match, idk if it was 5 stars, but i really liked it.
For me i was still cheering for the MCMG to win it even though i knew they were losing and the match kept me intresting.
Plus im a hardcore Shelley mark so....evey match is instant 5*


----------



## doubledeez

Anyone got Meltzer's rating on FLair/Michaels yet. It says the Observer issue with the info comes out in the coming week?


----------



## Taroostyles

doubledeez said:


> Anyone got Meltzer's rating on FLair/Michaels yet. It says the Observer issue with the info comes out in the coming week?


He doesn't give out ratings right away when the match is over like some other people. His ratings for WWE/TNA/ROH come out periodically and cover all the matches since the last time he gave out ratings.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't expect more than ****-****1/4 at most from Meltzer on Flair/HBK.


----------



## Sephiroth

Flair vs. HBK wasn't an mma match, a puro match, or involved Kobashi so it won't even crack ***


----------



## ROH

Maxx Hero said:


> Wow, people that agree with me that The Briscoes/MCMG match was not ***** material. It is reasons like this that I am glad I quit the ROH forum and came here. Over there they excommunicate you for speaking against the Briscoes or anything they have ever touched.
> 
> I gave it a **** at first viewing, but last week I bumped it to ****1/2.
> 
> Best part was when one of the Briscoes sold Alex Shelley spitting water in his face. One of the rare times they have ever sold, and by far the best sell of theirs I have ever seen.


I actually gave it ***1/2 as a final rating. Very good moves exhibition, but little more than that.


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> I actually gave it ***1/2 as a final rating. Very good moves exhibition, but little more than that.


Its **** 1/2 - ***** 3/4 and if you make me review it to prove to you it has a story, I swear to God Ollie, I'll make you regret it somehow.


----------



## ROH

PulseGlazer said:


> Its **** 1/2 - ***** 3/4 and if you make me review it to prove to you it has a story, I swear to God Ollie, I'll make you regret it somehow.


Like you said man, they didn't show the story enough/tell it consistently.


----------



## McQueen

They through away the story in the last 10 minutes to do MOVEZ! cause indy fans think they are cool. Actually makes me hate the match more since they built the story and heat in the beginning. *** 3/4 from me.

Anyways this is the '2008' thread so back on topic.


----------



## Caponex75

PWG - El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards & Super Dragon was awesome. Don't know if it was because I had such low expectations after watching the first match that was soooo disapointing but I loved it. Don't do star ratings unless I'm saying 5 stars so you'll just have to watch it yourself.

Also I did rate Briscoes/MCMG ***** >_> It had a story but people just often look at Briscoe matches now as just MOVeZ~!. It was way above AOTF vs. Briscoes at Final Battle.


----------



## ROH

Caponex75 said:


> PWG - El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards & Super Dragon was awesome. Don't know if it was because I had such low expectations after watching the first match that was soooo disapointing but I loved it. Don't do star ratings unless I'm saying 5 stars so you'll just have to watch it yourself.
> 
> Also I did rate Briscoes/MCMG ***** >_> It had a story but *people just often look at Briscoe matches now as just MOVeZ~!. *It was way above AOTF vs. Briscoes at Final Battle.


That's because 90% of them are.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> That's because 90% of them are.


only one i can think of that wasn't from last year is Jay & Stevens vs. Steenerico


----------



## watts63

*ROH Sixth Anniversary Show*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson *****

Heel Nigel F'N Owns!


----------



## Spartanlax

Five stars for THAT?!

...WHAT?!


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> Five stars for THAT?!
> 
> ...WHAT?!


DAMN YOU! Now I have to re-watch it.


----------



## Spartanlax

I'll re-watch it too, but I thought it was just 'pretty good'. I liked what they were trying to do and enjoyed it (a more sports entertainment-y/character based match), but they gave up selling a lot in order to do so for some reason, which I just didn't get.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

That match has happened so many times that its always just dull to me.


----------



## McQueen

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> That match has happened so many times that its always just dull to me.


Did I just read this correctly?

We're talking about Nigel/Danielson?


----------



## watts63

Spartanlax said:


> I'll re-watch it too, but I thought it was just 'pretty good'. I liked what they were trying to do and enjoyed it (a more sports entertainment-y/character based match), but they gave up selling a lot in order to do so for some reason, which I just didn't get.


Your right man. Like example McGuinness' ribs, he didn't sell it, especially the ending. I mean Danielson been punching & elbowing his ribs but Nigel was still walking & running like it had no effect. Definetly not a MOTYC. I don't know what the fuck I was seeing.


----------



## Spartanlax

Nigel's ribs, Danielson's arm for the most part...they just kinda threw everything away as the match went on. It confused the hell out of me, especially considering these two are really, really good.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

McQueen said:


> Did I just read this correctly?
> 
> We're talking about Nigel/Danielson?


I get easily bored by the same stuff happening over and over, i like fresh match ups.

Im getting bored with Evans/Strong, and Aries/Danielson too. Oh same goes for Hero/Castagnoli too.


----------



## Burning Sword

That's funny, because whenever I see Steamboat/Flair, Kobashi/Misawa, and Kawada/Misawa, it's always seem fresh to me.

I watch Black vs. Danielson from ROH Breakout and at first viewing I give it ****1/4. I really like the finish to it and the first few minutes of the match were pretty intense.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Still trying to catch up on some ROH shows, but so far this is my MOTY list.

MOTYC List:

1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WrestleMania 24 ****3/4
2. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- Aganist All Odds ****1/4
3. The Undertaker v.s Edge- WrestleMania 24 ****1/4
4. Raw Elimination Chamber- No Way Out ****1/4
5. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- Breakout ****

Few other matches were at ****, but since I already have one Angle/Christian match there I left that one off.


----------



## peep4life

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I get easily bored by the same stuff happening over and over, i like fresh match ups.
> 
> Im getting bored with *Evans/Strong*, and Aries/Danielson too. Oh same goes for Hero/Castagnoli too.


i never get bored of this, watching strong beat the hell out of Evans and bend him into a human pretzal never gets old, but I do agree about hero/cc. 
As for watts and spartan, can't wait for my ROH order to come in the mail so I can watch Nigel/Dragon, there matches are always great, and this one seems to add a new dimension to it.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Burning Sword said:


> I watch Black vs. Danielson from ROH Breakout and at first viewing I give it ****1/4. I really like the finish to it and the first few minutes of the match were pretty intense.


I guess that would fall under the category: "Different strokes for diffrent folks"?


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> only one i can think of that wasn't from last year is Jay & Stevens vs. Steenerico


vs. Shingo and Doi, vs. Shingo and Yokosuka, vs. MCMG, vs. KOW.. that'll do off the top of my head.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> vs. Shingo and Doi, vs. Shingo and Yokosuka, vs. MCMG, vs. KOW.. that'll do off the top of my head.


so those weren't ALL MOVEZ~!? i could have sworn the Shingo/Doi and MCMG matches were like that. which KOW? i never saw their 2/3 and i was just talking about last year (so exclude the two from december 2006). when was Shingo & Susumu vs. Briscoes? i'm lost.


----------



## watts63

Sephiroth said:


> so those weren't ALL MOVEZ~!? i could have sworn the Shingo/Doi and MCMG matches were like that. which KOW? i never saw their 2/3 and i was just talking about last year (so exclude the two from december 2006). *when was Shingo & Susumu vs. Briscoes? i'm lost.*


ROH Live in Osaka.


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> ROH Live in Osaka.


oh right...good match, coulda/shoulda been better


----------



## ROH

The LiO match could have had more action, but I don't think Susumu was really trying due to the fact he was just there to job and the fact the Briscoes had already worked 193874973947 other matches in the past 2 weeks (NOAH Jr. Tag league).


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> so those weren't ALL MOVEZ~!? i could have sworn the Shingo/Doi and MCMG matches were like that. which KOW? i never saw their 2/3 and i was just talking about last year (so exclude the two from december 2006). when was Shingo & Susumu vs. Briscoes? i'm lost.


I'd have to search the crap out of my archives for a full review, but the basics are Briscoes couldn't handle Shingo and so targetted Doi. Theere were giant parts built around them targetting the wrong guy and Shingo thus kept killing them. The Osaka match played off this.

The 2/3 falls is what I'm referring to.

I'll do the Briscoes-MCMG later this week. Remind me.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

*sigh*

Finally settled Shawn vs. Flair at ****1/2

What it came down to was my love of it vs. my logic, and while my love remained strong, I ended up asking myself "Was this better than Edge vs. Undertaker?" and in the end, the answer was no. They have the same rating, but Edge vs. Taker is a little higher and my current frontrunner.


----------



## -Mystery-

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Edge/Taker was a better match. If you don't mind, could you type up a brief review on Edge/Taker? I'm really interested in reading your thoughts on the match.


----------



## -GP-

Edge - Taker as far as i'm concerned lost *a lot* at the start.
The crowd was blown out by that point, the open venue didn't make it any easier for noise to build, and the fact that Taker was a bit of a shoe-in to win was a killer at first.

At somewhere near the half-way point, it all kinda clicked together. 
Edge seems to be something like a WWE version of Austin Aries in terms of performance against good opponents. While you stick him in the ring with a mediocre wrestler and he's only just above mediocre, he didn't look out of place next to Benoit or Angle (good Angle) and always seems to be able to match everything thrown at him. Christian turned out to be the more talented of the two, but Edge can aparently still pull something out when against a high-level opponent.

They told a couple of cool stories (Edge kept countering the "old school" - which i always found an immensely silly move btw - finishers were countered left and right) and ended up with a pretty nice long finish stretch.

What really hurt it was the audio...and by audio i mean commentary and crowd. This would've been a different level of match if JR called it, or if JBL was there, and so would it be were it for a better crowd. I don't know why but they just died in intervals even at the very end.

Overall, i'd say ****-****1/4 from me, mainly because it felt very "cold" at times, especially early on, but at bits near the end too...
What the hell, throw on another 1/4 for Charles Robinson's dash...imagine if he had fallen over 
In all seriousness:
*****1/4*

P.S. Has anyone notticed how Cole keeps calling Taker's gogoplata (which i don't particularly like tbh) "That move!" because he doesn't know what it's called? :no:


----------



## Spartanlax

Michael Cole is an absolute terrible commentator. Beyond all belief. Ugh.


----------



## T-C

With Coach beside him it just magnifies it as well.


----------



## Blasko

Tenay/West vs. Cole/Coach is now my dream match.


----------



## T-C

At least DW is completely fuckin' insane which adds something. All Coach and Cole offer is repetition. Tenay is still worse than both of them though.


----------



## Derek

Coach was at least decent a few years ago when he was an utter heel. Now it seems like he's trying to be a tweener, and is failing miserably at it.


----------



## kennedy=god

I liked Edge/UT as well, not as much as Flair/HBK, but a quality match:

I know most of the talk has been about Ric/HBK, but what a match Edge/'Taker was. These are probably the 2 best psychologists in the company ATM, and this match they both clearly shined in that department. The work on the back at the start of the match was brilliant, Edge was pretty much non-stop, rarely stopping for a breather, and UT's selling was absolutely great, he's very, very under-rated when it comes to his selling. Edge was working on the back to take out the power game of The Undertaker, attempting to take out his power moves such as the Chokeslam, Last ride & Tombstone, as it would be more difficult to lift Edge up. I liked how they made Edge look strong, constantly reversing finishing manouveres by The Undertaker, with Edge becoming very, very desperate to defeat him, eventually resorting to using a camera. The crowd livened up towards the end, with lots of twists and turns, leaving the match pretty unpredictable. Man, when Edge hit that second Spear, i thought that the streat was over, and you could tell the live crowd did as well, as they were in complete stunned silence, but i liked how he managed to recorver and get him with that submission move, showing that at WM, nothing can stop him. Absolutely brilliant match, easily out-does that brilliant match between UT/Batista. I've given this a very, very high ****1/2, bordering on ****3/4. Brought a wonderful end to a wondeful WM.


----------



## -Destiny-

Edge/Undertaker was good but only for the last 10-12 minutes.

***3/4


----------



## Blasko

Tenay use to be quite fun during WCW.

But I think it was because Bobby Heenan shut him up whenever he spoke.


----------



## -Destiny-

Is tenay the colour commentator?


----------



## T-C

Tenay is play by play in TNA.


----------



## Spartanlax

I legitimately enjoy Don West, and don't think he's that bad. He makes me excited for matches and promos because of how excited HE is for the matches and promos. Job well done.


----------



## -Destiny-

Don West is a beautiful little old man.

<3


----------



## Blasko

West is so bad, he's amazing. 

Tenay....Well, is just bad.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

-Mystery- said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Edge/Taker was a better match. If you don't mind, could you type up a brief review on Edge/Taker? I'm really interested in reading your thoughts on the match.


I THINK I put one up with my first Mania thoughts, but I don't feel like digging back that far in the thread atm. It was pretty much just Edge being awesome and countering every one of Taker's signatures, forcing Taker to dig deeper to beat him. The only thing that killed Edge at the end was the lack of a finisher strong enough to put Taker down at Wrestlemania. Just played brilliantly off the characters. I have it at ****1/2 and it's my current MOTY.



GP_Punk said:


> Edge - Taker as far as i'm concerned lost *a lot* at the start.
> The crowd was blown out by that point, the open venue didn't make it any easier for noise to build, and the fact that Taker was a bit of a shoe-in to win was a killer at first.
> 
> At somewhere near the half-way point, it all kinda clicked together.
> Edge seems to be something like a WWE version of Austin Aries in terms of performance against good opponents. While you stick him in the ring with a mediocre wrestler and he's only just above mediocre, he didn't look out of place next to Benoit or Angle (good Angle) and always seems to be able to match everything thrown at him. Christian turned out to be the more talented of the two, but Edge can aparently still pull something out when against a high-level opponent.
> 
> They told a couple of cool stories (Edge kept countering the "old school" - which i always found an immensely silly move btw - finishers were countered left and right) and ended up with a pretty nice long finish stretch.
> 
> What really hurt it was the audio...and by audio i mean commentary and crowd. This would've been a different level of match if JR called it, or if JBL was there, and so would it be were it for a better crowd. I don't know why but they just died in intervals even at the very end.
> 
> Overall, i'd say ****-****1/4 from me, mainly because it felt very "cold" at times, especially early on, but at bits near the end too...
> What the hell, throw on another 1/4 for Charles Robinson's dash...imagine if he had fallen over
> In all seriousness:
> *****1/4*
> 
> P.S. Has anyone notticed how Cole keeps calling Taker's gogoplata (which i don't particularly like tbh) "That move!" because he doesn't know what it's called? :no:


Heat and commentary were missing, but the match itself was still a brilliant piece of work. It was probably the best put together match within WWE style since Cena vs. Michaels at LAST YEAR'S Mania. Also says something that people thought legit that Edge could beat Taker at Mania. I'm tempted to push it to ****3/4 actually, but I need a second viewing to be sure, since I was still burned out from Flair vs. Michaels at the time and had a hard time getting into it proper until midway myself.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Okay- Stevens vs. Roderick from Redefined is at least **** 1/4, a breathtaking war. Must see. It'll be reviewed in ROH Weekly. I'll edit it in here after there, but really, see the match. Oh My God.


----------



## Saint Dick

Spartanlax said:


> I legitimately enjoy Don West, and don't think he's that bad. He makes me excited for matches and promos because of how excited HE is for the matches and promos. Job well done.


I agree. DW entertains me.


----------



## KingKicks

Finally got the chance to rewatch Mania and change my ratings.

MITB IV - ****1/4
HBK vs. Flair - ****1/2-****3/4
Taker vs. Edge - ****1/4-****1/2 (This match was so much better on my second viewing)


----------



## -Destiny-

I might re-watch Edge/Undertaker seening as though I haven't seen anbody rate it the same as me.


----------



## Saint Dick

Benjo™;5597919 said:


> Finally got the chance to rewatch Mania and change my ratings.
> 
> MITB IV - ****1/4
> HBK vs. Flair - ****1/2-****3/4
> Taker vs. Edge - ****1/4-****1/2 (This match was so much better on my second viewing)


I agree with those ratings. ****3/4 for HBK/Flair and ****1/4 for Edge/Taker. Might have to give Edge/Taker another watch.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

RKO Destiny™ said:


> I might re-watch Edge/Undertaker seening as though I haven't seen anbody rate it the same as me.


I agree with it 110%

I didn't think it was as good as everyone rates it.


----------



## KeepItFresh

This thread isn't moving. So I thought I'd post my top 10 matches thus far this year. Thoughts? Whatever? Nonsense?

MOTY List:

1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WrestleMania 24 ****3/4
2. The Undertaker v.s Edge- Wrestlemania 24 ****1/4
3. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuniess- ROH Without Remorse ****1/4
4. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- Aganist All Odds ****1/4
5. Raw Elimination Chamber- No Way Out ****1/4
6. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- Breakout ****
7. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- Final Resolution ****
8. Kevin Steen v.s Go Shiozaki- Eye Of The Storm ***3/4-****
9. Money In The Bank IV- Wrestlemania 24 ***3/4
10. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Impact, Cage Match ***3/4

Still need to watch ROH's 6th Anniversary show. Considering how good Nigel/Danielson matches usually are this should change.


----------



## vivalabrave

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I agree with it 110%
> 
> I didn't think it was as good as everyone rates it.


Neither did I. I've seen it 3 times (third time with a friend who was pretty bored with it, although we did just sit through 3 hours of Mania) and I can only give it ***3/4. Still good though. I didn't love the finish with Taker getting the title with *Cole mode on* THAT MOVE!!! *Cole mode off*



KeepItFresh said:


> This thread isn't moving. So I thought I'd post my top 10 matches thus far this year. Thoughts? Whatever? Nonsense?
> 
> MOTY List:
> 3. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuniess- ROH Without Remorse ****1/4


WOW. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing this match. Highest I've seen someone give it was like ***3/4.


----------



## Sephiroth

vivalabrave said:


> Neither did I. I've seen it 3 times (third time with a friend who was pretty bored with it, although we did just sit through 3 hours of Mania) and I can only give it ***3/4. Still good though. I didn't love the finish with Taker getting the title with *Cole mode on* THAT MOVE!!! *Cole mode off*
> 
> 
> 
> WOW. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing this match. Highest I've seen someone give it was like ***3/4.


i saw it live and initially thought it was ****. haven't seen it since then tho


----------



## KeepItFresh

vivalabrave said:


> WOW. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing this match. Highest I've seen someone give it was like ***3/4.


I'm a huge Roderick Strong fan, so that may have inflated the score. The match also had a great main event feel throughout with Roderick actually looking like he might win which always adds to these matches.


----------



## Saint Dick

KeepItFresh said:


> This thread isn't moving. So I thought I'd post my top 10 matches thus far this year. Thoughts? Whatever? Nonsense?
> 
> MOTY List:
> 
> 1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WrestleMania 24 ****3/4
> 2. The Undertaker v.s Edge- Wrestlemania 24 ****1/4
> 3. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuniess- ROH Without Remorse ****1/4
> 4. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- Aganist All Odds ****1/4
> 5. Raw Elimination Chamber- No Way Out ****1/4
> 6. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- Breakout ****
> 7. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- Final Resolution ****
> 8. Kevin Steen v.s Go Shiozaki- Eye Of The Storm ***3/4-****
> 9. Money In The Bank IV- Wrestlemania 24 ***3/4
> 10. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Impact, Cage Match ***3/4
> 
> Still need to watch ROH's 6th Anniversary show. Considering how good Nigel/Danielson matches usually are this should change.


Angle/Cage from Final Res > the cage match on Impact.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Ownage™ said:


> Angle/Cage from Final Res > the cage match on Impact.


Yeah I have the Final Resolution match at **** as my #7 and Impact cage match is at ***3/4 at #10.


----------



## Saint Dick

KeepItFresh said:


> Yeah I have the Final Resolution match at **** as my #7 and Impact cage match is at ***3/4 at #10.


I totally didn't see that :$


----------



## doubledeez

Anyone got Meltzer's ratings of Mania yet, the Observer sites said the issue with the ratings was supposed to come out this week.


----------



## KeepItFresh

doubledeez said:


> Anyone got Meltzer's ratings of Mania yet, the Observer sites said the issue with the ratings was supposed to come out this week.


Someone just posted them in the WWE DVD discussion thread.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah someone in the WWE DVD Thread said that he gave HBK/Flair ***1/2, MITB ***1/4, Taker/Edge ****1/4, and HHH/Cena/Orton ***1/2. 

I knew he wouldn't go high on HBK/Flair, but I didn't think he'd go that low either.


----------



## doubledeez

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah someone in the WWE DVD Thread said that he gave HBK/Flair ***1/2, MITB ***1/4, Taker/Edge ****1/4, and HHH/Cena/Orton ***1/2.
> 
> I knew he wouldn't go high on HBK/Flair, but I didn't think he'd go that low either.


Wow I'm shocked at that that's ridiculous Flair/HBK deserved at least ****+. I definitely just lost some credibility for Meltzer. I think he has some kind of WWE bias and a secret fetish for Japanese wrestling (not that I don't like Japanese wrestling he just overrates a lot of them).


----------



## Sephiroth

Meltzer had problems with how the match turned out and I'm sure he wasn't into the build. Meltzer is Meltzer, when he gives a low rating for a match you like, most people cry foul, but if he gives a high rating for a match that you love, i'm sure his rating will be the first you go to to shove it in someone's face that there is proof that it's that damn good


----------



## -Mystery-

Meltzer has a bias against WWE? That's funny because he watches WWE more than any other promotion.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I for once agree with Meltzer. Im gonna go kill myself now.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

People still care what Meltzer thinks?

He seemed like a nice guy when he'd call into LAW, but come on...

This is not meant to be sarcastic, really. I am genuinely perplexed by this.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Meltzer is a very good journalist who knows his wrestling. He's one of the few (only?) wrestling journalists that is respected outside of wrestling. I believe Frank Deford, the senior writer for Sports Illustrated, said of him, "Meltzer, I believe, is the most accomplished reporter in sports journalism." Of course people care what he thinks.


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> Meltzer has a bias against WWE? That's funny because he watches WWE more than any other promotion.


I agree, no way does he have a bias against WWE. If anything, I see him giving them generous ratings for the most part.

I'm not sure if it was said in this thread, but he commented that he felt the outdoor setting for the show hurt his enjoyment of some of the matches.

If that's the way the man feels, then that's just the way he feels about it.


----------



## McQueen

KIMBO said:


> Meltzer is a very good journalist who knows his wrestling. He's one of the few (only?) wrestling journalists that is respected outside of wrestling. I believe Frank Deford, the senior writer for Sports Illustrated, said of him, "Meltzer, I believe, is the most accomplished reporter in sports journalism." Of course people care what he thinks.


Agreed, but its still funny when people take his column as gospel.


----------



## Caponex75

I think Meltzer is biais against the WWE. Honestly, how many matches have the WWE had that almost everyone has agreed is ***** that Meltzer has given that "Oh My way of punking out" ****3/4 stars? Hasn't given cred to the E for years now.


----------



## ROH

Eh, one guy's opinion.


----------



## Y²

I think Black vs Nigel might make a candidate, the basic story seems great. Anyone see it live?


----------



## T-C

I could listen to Dave talk about wrestling for hours, top man.

Another thing that affected his enjoyment of Flair/Michaels was that he was dead set on it going on last, and was therefore a bit pissed off at its placement on the card.


----------



## -Mystery-

Caponex75 said:


> I think Meltzer is biais against the WWE. Honestly, how many matches have the WWE had that almost everyone has agreed is ***** that Meltzer has given that "Oh My way of punking out" ****3/4 stars? Hasn't given cred to the E for years now.


Such as? Frankly, I can't think of one match that the IWC has generally agreed on that's 5 stars that Meltzer hasn't given the same.


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> Such as? Frankly, I can't think of one match that the IWC has generally agreed on that's 5 stars that Meltzer hasn't given the same.


Well it depends on how you define "generally agreed on".

Some of the matches I see people giving 5* like Bret/Perfect, Austin/HHH 3SOH, and Benoit/Angle RR 03 would come to mind, but I'm not sure how agreed on they are.

I see alot of people giving all 3 5* and Meltzer didn't, probably alot more too.


----------



## -Mystery-

True but I believe Meltzer gave all those matches something ****1/2 - ****3/4. However, people like to split hairs and make a big deal over 1/2* - 1/4*.


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> True but I believe Meltzer gave all those matches something ****1/2 - ****3/4. However, people like to split hairs and make a big deal over 1/2* - 1/4*.


Oh, I agree with you that Meltzer doesn't have a bias at all. I was just saying there are some matches that are pretty agreed upon within the IWC as 5* that Meltzer didn't give it to.(Not like it should matter anyway)

Out of those 3 matches, the only one I would really say he shortchanged is Bret/Perfect.(I think he gave it like ****1/4)

If there were ever matches he shortchanged IMO, it was definitely ECW matches.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I honestly can't think of any 5* ECW matches at all.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Magnitude Kishiwada - K.Office Vol. 4

Awesome fucking match. Nakajima is the plucky youngster who won't go down and Mag's is gonna teach him a fuckin lesson. Super exciting down the stretch with a hot crowd. Definately see this shit. ****-****1/4


----------



## Taroostyles

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I honestly can't think of any 5* ECW matches at all.


I wasn't talking about 5* matches, just matches in general.(Altho I disagree that there aren't any)


----------



## T-C

I think it's more that ECW was overrated by everyone else.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

So whats the list of all the matches again? Someone should update the first post with it.


----------



## IC

I definitely thought Austin vs HHH 3SOH was ***** as was Benoit/Angle that you mentioned. I thought Michaels vs Flair was as well but I don't think you can blame WWE for it not going on last, a guy like Flair wouldn't have had it.

I think Angle/Joe has the potential for ***** as long as there's no interference and a perfectly clean finish - asking a lot from TNA though.


----------



## Taroostyles

Joe/Angle-****1/4-****1/2
Lethal Lockdown-****1/2

I was at the show live so these easily could change, especially Joe/Angle. Incredible double main event.


----------



## Sephiroth

i need to see Joe/Angle :|.


----------



## Taroostyles

Some people aren't appreciating cause of it's slow build and style, but it was pretty incredible. My rating could easily go up since it's hard to gauge live for match ratings sometimes. 

Easily one of the most realistic pro wrestling matches of all time, right up there Wrestlewar IMO.(Not saying it was better, but felt just as real as that match did)


----------



## Sephiroth

Taroostyles said:


> Some people aren't appreciating cause of it's slow build and style, but it was pretty incredible. My rating could easily go up since it's hard to gauge live for match ratings sometimes.
> 
> Easily one of the most realistic pro wrestling matches of all time, right up there Wrestlewar IMO.(Not saying it was better, but felt just as real as that match did)


Caldwell and Keller from PWTorch gave it **** 1/2. I believe it was Caldwell that said "it could have been much better with at least 5 more minutes since it seemed really short." When you rate a match **** 1/2 and then say it could have been "much better", that says a lot. 

They both gave Lethal Lockdown *** i believe. How was the rest of the show?


----------



## straightedge015

I thought it was fun until the ankle lock reversals started.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I heard the match came off bad on TV from 5 diffrent people, Angle vs Joe that is.

Me personally i wasn't even excited for the match.


----------



## Taroostyles

Sephiroth said:


> Caldwell and Keller from PWTorch gave it **** 1/2. I believe it was Caldwell that said "it could have been much better with at least 5 more minutes since it seemed really short." When you rate a match **** 1/2 and then say it could have been "much better", that says a lot.
> 
> They both gave Lethal Lockdown *** i believe. How was the rest of the show?


*** is incredibly harsh for Lethal Lockdown, I thought it was the best one yet. Meltzer called it "spectacular" and I tend to agree. I stand by the rating pretty wholeheartedly. 

The rest of the show was pretty good and nothing came off really bad.(Even the matches I expected to be bad weren't that bad.)

My ratings were

Xscape Match-***1/4-***1/2
Queen Of The Cage-**1/2(The beginning was silly but Roxxi/Angelina worked a pretty good match. Roxxi was also super over, like seriously over huge.)
BG/Kip-**(Pretty much what I expected.)
Cuffed In The Cage-**3/4(The gimmick played out better than I expected even tho the finish was predictable)
Kong/Melissa vs ODB/Kim-**3/4-***(The match was good but it only got about 8 minutes. Still enjoyable tho, I wanna see Melissa wrestle without that outfit on tho)
Booker/Sharmell vs Roode/Banks-***1/4(Again it went kinda short, but the work Roode/Booker did I thought was really good. They kept the girls out into the end and it played out pretty well)

And the other 2 matches I already rated, any of these could change and probably will when I see them on DVD.

I really can't believe anybody would give LL ***, **** at the very least IMO.


----------



## Sephiroth

Oops, i guess Keller gave Lethal Lockdown *** 1/2.


----------



## Taroostyles

Well matches like that are especially subjective since some people just don't like hardcore/gimmick type of matches. 

I thought it was the best one yet and the last 2 I had at **** and ****1/4 respectively. 

Lethal Lockdown was also the big reason why some people got restless for Joe/Angle, it was so awesome and Joe/Angle was just an entirely other type of match.


----------



## Platt

Angle/Joe ****1/2 atm could even go higher once i watch it again.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I said it in the Lockdown thread, but Angle-Joe V was their best match out of the 5, and one of Angle's best performances in his wrestling career. 

Joe won the title, got the glory and the fame, and he worked just as hard, but Angle was the force driving this match. He played his role perfectly, and executed everything greatly.


----------



## McQueen

M.S.I.I. said:


> Joe won the title, got the glory and the fame, and he worked just as hard, but Angle was the force driving this match. He played his role perfectly, and executed everything greatly.


I would think Angle would have perfected the Belly to Belly and Ankle lock by now seeing as they are the only moves he knows how to do anymore. 

Actually i'm kinda interested in this match, I'll need to download it later.


----------



## Horselover Fat

I laughed @ the fake MMA in the first half of the Joe/Angle match. It was pretty embarrassing. The match got awesome once they started wrestling though.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I agree that Angle really came off as awesome, especially to the live crowd. A truly professional performance by both men TBH. 

I didn't think the MMA stuff was "embarrasing" at all, but the action definitely picked up in the 2nd half of the match.


----------



## peep4life

Angle/Joe ****(Barely)
Lethal Lockdown ****
While they were two different matches, they were both good in their own ways.


----------



## -GP-

Lethal Lockdown - ****
I hate - HATE - these types of matches...Cage and A.J. put on a very good show in the first 5 mins, but because you know nothing is gonna happen that early it's meaningless. Good for what it was, but not really my cup of tea.

Angle vs. Joe - ****1/4
I really liked it tbh. Crowd was chanting "boring" and "we want wrestling" at points, but what do they know?
Liked the slow build, but i think it could really benefit by a slightly longer finish stretch, but i hear Angle got hurt, so maybe they rushed it...still really good


----------



## Spartanlax

To be honest, I absolutely loved Joe/Angle V and am thinking about giving it the full five stars. It's definitely not for everyone, though. Even though the 'MMA stuff' may seem stupid to some people, including me at times, they made it work and it made sense in the match due to how it was built up and hyped. Plus, it wasn't all for naught, EVERYTHING in the match was there for a reason and added to the story, which I felt was amazing. Oh, and it made sense! Yes folks, in TNA, a match made sense. It just built so well and was so great. Right now, I'm putting it at about ****1/2 or ****3/4....but I'm tempted to give it the full five. LOVED this match.


----------



## -Mystery-

I fail to see what's great about Joe/Angle. The highest I'll give it is ***3/4 but at the moment, I have it at ***1/2.


----------



## Saint Dick

Lethal Lockdown - ****

About to watch Angle/Joe.


----------



## Derek

Just watched Angle/Joe. Like -Mystery- I have it at ***3/4 tops.

I didn't mind the pseudo-MMA stuff they did starting out, I just didn't like how suddenly they decided to stop doing it. And does anybody else agree with me that Angles strikes looked pretty weak during the MMA part? 

Both men pulled out their usual stuff once it was back to being a wrestling match, with Angle doing the same counter stuff he's been doing for what seems like forever. The finish seemed a bit out of nowhere, which kind of killed the whole "Joe finally wins" emotions after the match for me.

Just my view, If you liked it, I'm glad.


----------



## KeepItFresh

I have the match at ****. I just was entertained throughout. I actually would have gave it higher with a better finish and if Joe would have sold his leg better. He just completely stopped selling at it one point to hit his next move. 

I really enjoy Angle's TNA main events, though. Well most of them.


----------



## Alim

I have Joe/Angle and Lethal Lockdown both at ****1/4. I might need to rewatch them though. If both matches went on for another five minutes or had a better finish, they'd pass the ****1/2 mark for sure.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Lethal Lockdown was alright, but seriously other than the stuff they did on the cage nothing but swinging weapons really happened inside when the top was lowered. Well they're was a couple things other than the finish, but really they were all just waiting for the top stuff to be finished, so they could complete the match.

I have the match at ***3/4 despite all that.


----------



## T-C

Lax has now forced me into watching TNA and more specifically Kurt Angle again with his write up.

Damn you.

I'll be back with thoughts tomorrow.


----------



## Spartanlax

I absolutely LOVED the ending to Joe/Angle. Joe had Angle in the choke, and with Angle finally running out of legit counters/reversals to this move and desperate to win...he pulls himself close to the ropes using the ref. It made him look like such a pussy heel, which was PERFECT, since he tried (and partially succeeded) to be the superior wrestler throughout the match. Joe had his number though, and he knew it, so he did the cheap thing to get out of the hold. Then Joe was all like "You wanna be cheap? Fine, eat STEEL MOTHER FUCKER" and for the first time in the match uses the cage as a weapon...retaliation in the most BADASS way for the cheap tactic. After that blow, Angle was done, and one Muscle Buster later Joe had slayed his biggest rival.

If that's not an awesome story, I dunno what is.


----------



## Derek

I was fine with Angle using the ref to get to the ref, great dick heel move, but after that, to me it seemed more like Joe realized "Oh yeah, I'm in a cage" then slams Angles head in the cage. Kicks him in the head (which appeared to be partially blocked) gives him the Muscle Buster and pins him. Thats just how I saw it.

Glad you loved it Lax.


----------



## Spartanlax

I can definitely see that Derek...if the superkick wasn't there, I think the finish would have been picture-perfect. With it, though, I think it just rocked. The only thing is that since the cage wasn't used at all (to my memory) until the finish, to me it seemed more like retaliation for being cheap than just remembering the cage is an option. Different strokes though, as they say.


----------



## Blasko

*** 1/4 for Angle/Joe V.

Joe leg selling is horrid tbh. And Kurt just used basic Kurt Angle formula. You know, SUPLEX SUPLEX LEG WORK LEG WORK ANKLE LOCK x10 and who hasn't seen that already. The MMA cross over made me wonder "What the fuck are they doing?" Example being that Kurt kicked the leg, Joe let his guard down and what does Angle do? Walk off and grin. Joe did the same. There's an opening, take it. 

Over all, meh match.


----------



## KingCrash

Angle/Joe - ***1/2 - ***3/4

Didn't mind the slow build but the pseudo-MMA stuff disappointed me a little. The ending also felt a little rushed. OK match, but not MOTY.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

There's no way this match isn't up there with the best matches so far this year, if your talking mainstream (WWE/TNA).


----------



## -Mystery-

Honestly, I can't put it anywhere near Flair/Michaels or Taker/Edge.


----------



## KeepItFresh

In reality it's just as good as the Christian Cage/Kurt Angle matches, because they follow the same formula for the most part.

Those deserve just as much love as Joe/Angle V, actually.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I loved the Cage-Angle series from this year, but I think Angle-Joe V just had everything you wanted in a match, and showed you who the better man was convincingly. And the build was tremendous, and it's the type of build that TNA should have for their title matches all the time. 

With Angle-Joe V I'd probably tie it with Edge-Taker, maybe even put it above, but it's definitely right below Flair Michaels.


----------



## New School Fire

The Joe vs. Angle match from Lockdown was a great one indeed. The match was quite stiff and I enjoyed it. The clothesline Joe gave to Angle was an awesome thing to see. I also loved the side kick Joe gave Angle. Some people are saying it had an abrupt ending, but I disagree with that I felt it ended nicely. Currently I have the match at ****1/4. Though that was just at one viewing. Ill probably check out again later on this week to get my final rating out of it.


----------



## ADN

Angle/Joe V - ****1/4
Lethal Lockdown - ****


----------



## Taroostyles

I personally preferred Joe/Angle and Lethal Lockdown to either of the WM matches. 

Granted, Joe/Angle wasn't for everyone but the realism was so insane. The story it told was pretty much perfect and the way it played out was so well done. 

I guess there wasn't enough action for some people, but it was one of the most logical professional wrestling matches I've ever seen. 

I also think Lethal Lockdown isn't really getting the love it deserves, I thought it was easily ****1/4-****1/2. 

I need to see the matches on DVD but I thought both matches were compeletely different yet similarly awesome. I thought the booking of both matches was just executed perfectly.(Something that doesn't happen often in TNA)

But I can see how some people aren't gonna dig the Joe/Angle match, but I thought it was a classic for sure.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Updated with Lockdown matches to show how good they were compared to the rest.

*MOTY List*:

1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WWE WrestleMania 24 ****3/4
2. Bryan Danielson v.s Nigel McGuiness- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show ****1/2
3. The Undertaker v.s Edge- WWE Wrestlemania 24 ****1/4
4. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuinness- ROH Without Remorse ****1/4
5. Go Shiozaki v.s Austin Aries- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show ****1/4
6. Raw Elimination Chamber- WWE No Way Out ****1/4
7. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Aganist All Odds ****-****1/4
8. Samoa Joe v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Lockdown ****
9. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- ROH Breakout ****
10. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Final Resolution ****

*Other fun stuff* (not in necessarily in order):

Minoru Fujita & Takuya Sugawara vs. Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin- Zero1-Max Miracle Rocket 2nd Impact ****
Money In The Bank IV- WWE Wrestlemania 24 ***3/4
Takeshi Morishima v.s Mitsuharu Misawa- NOAH 3/2/2008 ***3/4
Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson v.s Jay Briscoe & Erick Stevens- ROH Without Remorse ***3/4
Triple H v.s John Cena v.s Randy Orton- WWE Wrestlemania 24 ***3/4
Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle -TNA Impact, Steel Cage Match ***3/4
Masato Tanaka v.s Manabu Nakanishi- Zero1-Max Miracle Rocket 2nd Impact ***3/4
John Cena v.s Shawn Michaels- WWE Raw ***3/4
Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto- Zero1-Max Miracle Rocket 2nd Impact ***3/4
Lethal Lockdown: Team Cage v.s Team Tomko- TNA Lockdown ***3/4
Kevin Steen v.s Go Shiozaki- ROH Eye Of The Storm ***3/4
Go Shiozaki v.s El Generico -ROH Eye Of The Storm ***3/4
Yuji Nagata v.s Kurt Angle -TNA Global Impact ***1/2
ECW/SmackDown! Elimination Chamber- WWE No Way Out ***1/2
Randy Orton v.s John Cena -WWE No Way Out ***1/2


----------



## Sephiroth

Even though Joe/Angle went for an actual MMA feel, I was kind of hoping they would just have it be stiffer than normal and not do some of it. It was a great match tho, don't get me wrong. I was just kind of hoping Joe and Angle studied Danielson vs. Morishima from MM 2 and Man Up to get a good idea what they should shoot for.

**** 1/4 - **** 1/2

Joe winning the title was a great moment.

Edit: Gonna watch Lethal Lockdown soon


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I didn't like the match. I feel the MMA stuff was very cheesy and for the 5th match they should have just gone at each other from the get go. Plus Joe isn't a MMA fighter and neither is Angle plus they were inside a cage....just felt like one giant letdown.


----------



## Y²

I would have to give Joe/Angle a **** at most. I couldn't get into it, plain and simple.


----------



## - Styles -

*Joe/Angle ****1/2 *

Wow It's so refreshing to see something a little different. I don't watch too much stuff outside Tna/wwe so I've never seen a match like this with the whole MMA Vibe. I loved every second of it. (Eventhough some of the crowd clearly weren't into it) The ending I believe could've been a little better, seemed anticlimactic tbh. But still great stuff. No BS run ins or ref bumps just an incredibly realistic and gripping match. So happy Joe's finally the champ :agree: 

*Lethal Lockdown ***** 

Didn't like how Morgan or Sting were kinda just background figures in this since they've been building the match around them these last few weeks... and Rhino picking up the win was pointless. But fun match and loved that Ladder spot from Cage/Aj.


----------



## -Mystery-

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I didn't like the match. I feel the MMA stuff was very cheesy and *for the 5th match they should have just gone at each other from the get go.* Plus Joe isn't a MMA fighter and neither is Angle plus they were inside a cage....just felt like one giant letdown.


EXACTLY! These two have built up such a hatred for each other that it would've made perfect sense for them to come out and brawl with each other and bloody each other up via the cage.


----------



## McQueen

-Mystery- said:


> EXACTLY! These two have built up such a hatred for each other that it would've made *perfect sense* for them to come out and brawl with each other and bloody each other up via the cage.


Your talking about TNA you know.


----------



## -GP-

Well played sir...

I must say i'd mark pretty big if Joe and Angle went into full Frye vs. Takayama mode and beat the living daylights out of each other...


----------



## Taroostyles

TBH, I thought what they did made perfect sense.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I just pictured a more brutal match up. Joe had he career on the line so why would he change his style? Why wouldn't he use the style that got him in the position he was in? Just didn't make sense to me.
The crowd was dead. The announcer even sounded bored. Angle looked like he forgot to change and just came out.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I don't think it would have made sense to brawl. Why would Joe train for 4 weeks, not appearing on impact, to come out and just brawl with Angle? Why would Angle have sparring sessions, and all that, ignore his wife/family to brawl with Joe? 

The way the match was done, it was perfect, and it matched the build that they did. I would have been disappointed if they just came out like an ordinary match, and just brawled. Yea they do have a heated rivalry, but for this match it just made sense to find out who could out wrestle the other.


----------



## -Mystery-

After 4 matches, is there really a point to finding out who could out wrestle the other? Honestly, I thought that's something we already "found out" seeing how Angle already had 3 wins over Joe. I mean had they been split 2-2 then it would've made a bit more sense. But at match 5 and Angle already having 3 wins over Joe, it's kind of pointless to see who could out wrestle the other.

Also, they should've built the match to be a brawl and a fight to the death so to speak. Firstly, you have their history. Last time Joe and Angle wrestled, Angle stole all the titles from Joe and his chance to main event TNA's biggest PPV of the year. Then, you have Joe putting his career on the line. It doesn't make much sense for Joe to change up his style in what's supposed to be the biggest match of his career.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

Brawling just wouldn't have done it, especially if your giving the belt to Joe. I would have been disappointed seeing these guys trying to get all hardcore and shit like that in the match. Joe changed up his style for the match, but it fit what they were building all along. Sometimes you have to change up your style if you want to get to a certain point.

Joe's wrestling career was on the line, so why not take a chance? Especially when you saw the confidence that Joe was regaining from Destination-X to his training with Davis, to the first bell at Lockdown. Like you said, he only won one match against Angle, so something in his approach wasn't working. So maybe it was time for him to switch it up, so he could finally get to the top of TNA. He was willing to do anything to win the championship, and he did it.


----------



## Blasko

I'm starting to wonder that people are giving this match high ratings because of Joe winning the title. 

Joe was pretty darn sloppy through that match. being honest.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

I really don't care about the build cause i don't watch iMPACT....

The only thing i know is the prior history.
I just saw this match as Angles lame attempt to show the world he can do MMA.


----------



## Taroostyles

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I just pictured a more brutal match up. Joe had he career on the line so why would he change his style? Why wouldn't he use the style that got him in the position he was in? Just didn't make sense to me.
> The crowd was dead. The announcer even sounded bored. Angle looked like he forgot to change and just came out.



I dunno how it came across on TV, but the crowd sure as hell wasn't dead live. Tons of back and forth "Let's Go Joe", "Let's Go Angle". A fews fans got restless in the beginning but it really was just one group on idiots who were sitting pretty close to me. Most people have actually commented on how good the crowd was, and I can tell you firsthand that it was electric.



-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I'm starting to wonder that people are giving this match high ratings because of Joe winning the title.
> 
> Joe was pretty darn sloppy through that match. being honest.


Of course him winning the title might have elevated it a little bit, but not really that much.(Similar to the WM XX triple threat match, 1/4* at most.)

Some people loved the match and some didn't, I guess that's what it pretty much comes down to. 

I agree that they couldn't just do the same old routine, they had already wrestled on PPV 4
time in the previous 17 months before this match. I know it was a little short on action, but I thought it was a brilliant performance by both men.(Especially Angle, he really shined in this match)

Also, if you don't watch Impact than obviously you can't appreciate the build to the match. I agree with Meltzer on this one definitely, best build to a US World Title match in quite some time. Just phenomenal.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

Leonardo LunchBoX said:


> I really don't care about the build cause i don't watch iMPACT....
> 
> The only thing i know is the prior history.
> I just saw this match as Angles lame attempt to show the world he can do MMA.


Well if you missed the build I can see why you thought it didn't make sense.


----------



## peep4life

As already mentioned, I found it ridiculous that Joe would put his career on the line and then decide to fight MMA against a gold freaking medalist. Having a brawl would make more sense, as it would take Angle out of his element and give Joe an advantage. 
On another note watched Dragon/Black from Breakout- ****/****1/4. Really enjoyable match from start to finish, something that can't be said about Angle/Joe.


----------



## El Conquistador

Joe vs. Angle = ***1/4 tops. I concur with those who briefly stated that the MMA ingredient sprinkled in this feud/match was dreadful, I laughed my ass off at the way they went about incorporating it.

Haven't seen the Lethal Lockdown yet but I finally downloaded the whole show on a high quality XVID torrent so maybe I'll get around to viewing that in full eventually.


----------



## Taroostyles

So wrestling fans always complain about promotions never trying something new, and now they do(performed quite well might I add) and some people still shit all over it. 

A match that wasn't a spotfest, told an unbelieveable story, and had the best build of any American match in years and people are mad cause the match wasn't "brutal" enough. Gimme a break. 

Typically Fickle IWC.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Pointless arguing. I enjoyed the match. I could careless if others didn't or if they want to be overly critical.


----------



## Taroostyles

I don't care if others like it or not, but some of the reasons people are giving for not liking it are ridiculous or untrue.(Like the crowd not being into it, I was there and the crowd was on fire)

Especially the claim that the match wasn't brutal enough, I don't know why anyone who followed the build would have expected the match to be "brutal" at all. That clearly wasn't the direction this match was ever destined to go.

I suppose alot of people might have not seen any of the build and just saw the match. I just don't wanna hear any crap from people that are gonna say Joe/Angle was so overrated, when it if fact at this point is being severely underrated.(Atleast by alot of people in this thread)

If you just didn't like it cause of the MMA stuff, that's fine since it just might not be some people's cup of tea I guess. 

But they brought something totally different to the table and executed it very well, and yet most people are just mad cause they didn't use the cage more. It's just clutching at straws IMO, the Lethal Lockdown match was there for the brutality. This match was built as a technical battle from the minute it was announced and they followed thru on that pretty much perfectly IMO.


----------



## McQueen

Taroostyles said:


> So wrestling fans always complain about promotions never trying something new, and now they do(performed quite well might I add) and some people still shit all over it.
> 
> A match that wasn't a spotfest, told an unbelieveable story, and had the best build of any American match in years and people are mad cause the match wasn't "brutal" enough. Gimme a break.
> 
> Typically Fickle IWC.


U-style isn't new.

Damn TNA for making me actually want to watch one of their matches.


----------



## El Conquistador

Taroostyles said:


> So wrestling fans always complain about promotions never trying something new, and now they do(performed quite well might I add) and some people still shit all over it.
> 
> A match that wasn't a spotfest, told an unbelieveable story, and had the best build of any American match in years and people are mad cause the match wasn't "brutal" enough. Gimme a break.
> 
> Typically Fickle IWC.


Don't take me for granted by classifying me in that group of wrestling fans. When did I come near mentioning anything to do with 'brutality'? That best build in years statement you made is laughable, quite honestly. I wont even go about rectifying it.

Ratings are subjective as are opinions. No matter how much you make an effort to convey the brilliance of the match live, I wont ever be as fond of it as you are.

For fuck's sake, what happened to the days when you can post an opinion without being identified and labeled a dense, brain-dead wrestling fan?


----------



## -Mystery-

My comment about the brutality of the match has been misunderstood. I was saying that they should've built the match up to big fight, a brutal brawl because in my opinion, that would've added so much more emotion to the match which I felt was missing. I mean how great would it have been to have Angle bloody and beat down Joe then Joe makes the roaring comeback and fights through the blood loss to win his first World Title. That's great, raw emotion which I felt the match lacked greatly.


----------



## KingKicks

**** for Joe/Angle V for me.

I wasn't a fan of the MMA style at the beginning, got better towards the end though.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I'm starting to wonder that people are giving this match high ratings because of Joe winning the title.
> 
> Joe was pretty darn sloppy through that match. being honest.


No, I bumped it up 2 stars because you could hear Karen Angle yell "GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF ME....DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ME" at a security grunt


----------



## T-C

Just watched the Angle/Joe match and I don't get it. They start off by working almost U-Style, a bad attempt at it too, but then just forget about it completely and throw it away amking me wonder what was the point in it in the first place. Then do some moves and start the usual finishing stretch in an Angle match, you do your move then I'll reverse it into one of my finishers that mean fuck all.

The one bit in the match that made me mark a little was when Joe just thought "fuck this shit" and threw Angle into the cage after Angle's antics with the ref.

Frank Trigg was tremendous on commentary.

It sucks to see what Joe has become. He was utter shit against Misawa who was doing everything to try and make Joe look great. Both people in the match have deteriorated beyond belief.


----------



## Blasko

T-C said:


> Just watched the Angle/Joe match and I don't get it. They start off by working almost U-Style, a bad attempt at it too, but then just forget about it completely and throw it away amking me wonder what was the point in it in the first place. Then do some moves and start the usual finishing stretch in an Angle match, you do your move then I'll reverse it into one of my finishers that mean fuck all.


 Agreed, like the little fucking sheep I am. :agree:


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

M.W. said:


> Don't take me for granted by classifying me in that group of wrestling fans. When did I come near mentioning anything to do with 'brutality'? That best build in years statement you made is laughable, quite honestly. I wont even go about rectifying it.
> 
> Ratings are subjective as are opinions. No matter how much you make an effort to convey the brilliance of the match live, I wont ever be as fond of it as you are.
> 
> For fuck's sake, what happened to the days when you can post an opinion without being identified and labeled a dense, brain-dead wrestling fan?


Those days are long gone.



Sephiroth said:


> No, I bumped it up 2 stars because you could hear Karen Angle yell "GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF ME....DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ME" at a security grunt


I loled at that.


My whole point is that the match took place in a cage. They had a feud. Usually when giving the chance to destroy someone you hate with legal weapons your gonna take that chance a la Jimmy Jacobs and BJ Whitmer. This match should have been a big spots and had some sick brawl elements. Its what ive come to expect of steel cage matches. If they didn't want to go with a brutal match they should have held off on the match till the next PPV cause despite how hard i try i can't help but see that giant cage surrounding the cage.


----------



## Taroostyles

McQueen said:


> U-style isn't new.
> 
> Damn TNA for making me actually want to watch one of their matches.


Well for American Mainstream(WWE/TNA) it is, or atleast not done very often. 



M.W. said:


> Don't take me for granted by classifying me in that group of wrestling fans. When did I come near mentioning anything to do with 'brutality'? That best build in years statement you made is laughable, quite honestly. I wont even go about rectifying it.
> 
> Ratings are subjective as are opinions. No matter how much you make an effort to convey the brilliance of the match live, I wont ever be as fond of it as you are.
> 
> For fuck's sake, what happened to the days when you can post an opinion without being identified and labeled a dense, brain-dead wrestling fan?


First of all, the comment wasn't directed specifically at you. In fact, you pretty much said you didn't like it cause of the MMA stuf for the most part, which I said was a good enough reason in my next post. 

My comment was more at the people talking about the brutality or the crowd as reasons for not liking it. 

You just happened to be the post directly before mine, sorry if that seemed like an attack on you personally. It wasn't meant to be at all. 

As far as the comment about the best build, there are knowledgeable wrestling writers who actually said that right after the match ended. So I'm not the only one on that boat, not exactly laughable like you claim it to be. 

Also, people who don't watch Impact regularly and only saw the actual match, aren't gonna appreciate it as much as people who followed the entire build.(That's why the match made so much sense)

If they had gone out and wrestled a brawl or a bloodbath, it would have completely contradicted everything they did before the match actually happened.


----------



## El Conquistador

Taroostyles said:


> Well for American Mainstream(WWE/TNA) it is, or atleast not done very often.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, the comment wasn't directed specifically at you. In fact, you pretty much said you didn't like it cause of the MMA stuf for the most part, which I said was a good enough reason in my next post.
> 
> My comment was more at the people talking about the brutality or the crowd as reasons for not liking it.
> 
> You just happened to be the post directly before mine, sorry if that seemed like an attack on you personally. It wasn't meant to be at all.
> 
> As far as the comment about the best build, there are knowledgeable wrestling writers who actually said that right after the match ended. So I'm not the only one on that boat, not exactly laughable like you claim it to be.
> 
> Also, people who don't watch Impact regularly and only saw the actual match, aren't gonna appreciate it as much as people who followed the entire build.(That's why the match made so much sense)
> 
> If they had gone out and wrestled a brawl or a bloodbath, it would have completely contradicted everything they did before the match actually happened.


I never once said I hated the match because of the MMA, there wasn't much substance in the match itself, in my eyes. Just because that's the only thing I cared to comment on doesn't necessarily mean it's the only aspect of the match that I couldn't tolerate.

Don't care to comment on the other stuff; it's your opinion and you have the right to interpret it. I saw it differently and that's just what it comes down to.

All is fine, sorry for defending myself in the manner I went about doing so.


----------



## Taroostyles

M.W. said:


> I never once said I hated the match because of the MMA, there wasn't much substance in the match itself, in my eyes. Just because that's the only thing I cared to comment on doesn't necessarily mean it's the only aspect of the match that I couldn't tolerate.
> 
> Don't care to comment on the other stuff; it's your opinion and you have the right to interpret it. I saw it differently and that's just what it comes down to.
> 
> All is fine, sorry for defending myself in the manner I went about doing so.


It's all good man, you don't have to be sorry. You thought I was attacking you, it was justifiable but it was just a mix up, no biggie. 

People just happen to have vastly different opinions on this match, it atleast makes for good conversation for the most part.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen said:


> Damn TNA for making me actually want to watch one of their matches.


Haha, I feel the same way. 

I haven't watched TNA in almost a year and half either so I'm completely ignorant to the build or backstory to this. All the debating surrounding that build in the last couple pages makes me doubt I'll even 'get it' if I do watch it.


----------



## T-C

To be fair if the match is as good as people are claiming it to be (4 and a half starz) seeing the build should not be necessary in order to "get it", the story that they tell in the match should be enough for the watcher to be able to tell if it is great or not. However I don't think it is.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'll download it and give it a shot anyway.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

Lots of mixed thoughts on the Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe match here.

I downloaded it today out of the Lockdown show from Sunday. It was a fine match overall, imo. The MMA action they tried is honestly take or leave. But I enjoyed a lot of what they went to do. It was Angle trying what he could against a now all more confident Samoa Joe but finally being put in his place. I thought the match had some very good parts. The reversal sequences was executed perfect to me because it focused on the point of Joe pushing to beat Angle in just everything he tried. The big clothesline spot was sweet. I think it's even great when you see a few of the little things they did besides the big spots. Like Angle thinking ahead before he gets slapped more in the chest by Joe and instead of staying to work on the leg goes for a headlock instead to stop the attack or in another moment when Kurt is bitching around in Joe's finisher with the ref grab before he got to the ropes. Then we got a finish simple to the point that it's great. Not a match that I could say was perfect to myself. There are easy flaws to find but I am one of the majority to think this was worked wonderfully for at least a TNA PPV main event. 

I'm up for maybe **** or ***3/4 on my first watch. I'd gave **** to the Joe/Angle at Turning Point (my favorite match as well between the two). I believe this was the most enjoyable I've seen with them since back then.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

I enjoyed the match, but when I heard it was gonna be an MMA style match, I was expecting something much like Joe vs. Ki, just a fight!

These guys put on a good match for its style, and while the MMA stuff was good, alot of the time it looked way too "fake". The main problem for me in this match was definitely Joe. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy but he wasn't on that night.


----------



## Saint Dick

Just watched Angle/Joe and I have it at ****. If you can get into it, which I was able to do, it's a good match but not a classic. I didn't mind the MMA stuff but I felt that there was so much more these two could've done given what they're capable of in the ring. Maybe they needed another 5 minutes, I dunno. 

Exactly how good was the build for the match?


----------



## New School Fire

I felt it had its high points and low points concerning the build of the match. It was cool to see how much the two were putting in to their match as far as training goes. Joe was off tv for a couple weeks but they showed training promos. Though that is also something that took away from the build imo. For such a big match they should have both been there. I liked what Angle did, he had sparring sessions on iMPACT with people. I'd say decent. I was not super in to the build but I still loved the match.


----------



## -GP-

It seems to me that up to now, people are split in two groups: the ****1/4 area group, and the ***1/2 area group.
What i gather separates the two, is how willing you are to accept the switch from their regular style to the MMA feel.

Obviously the reason is Angle wants to try MMA for real and is just boosting his stocks, but it actually works a bit in story as well. If Angle wanting to try MMA carries into the worked story, then Joe who failed to beat Angle in the past with his own style (and has had some MMA training) figures "what the hell, let's give it a go".
There are some issues with it, but to be honest i only just thought of that a few minutes ago.

I watched the match without questioning why they work that style too much - i don't mind really, as long as a match's style is defined within it, i don't really care why they work it, and while it probably won't go very high in ratings because of that reason, it's still perfectly fine for ****-****1/4 in my book.

So, the major bad things for me were Joe messing up his leg selling later on, and the finish, that could benefit from a longer stretch, while the major good thing was the in-match story of Joe playing by the book, Angle throwing everything at him with Joe countering it all, Angle get's desperate and pulls the ref, at which point Joe goes "Fuck it!" and knocks him in the cage.

It would've been much better if after Angle pulled the ref, Joe's toss was carried on into a full-on brawl in the cage, but i still like it the way it is.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I have Angle vs. Joe at ****.

The 'MMA' stuff wasn't really as good as it could have been. Joe knew how to work that sort of style. Angle...not so much, and he looked lost at times. Still, once they got into a groove it was fine. Things picked up nicely when they hit a more typical pro wrestling style, with Joe sort of picking up steam as they went. The story was nicely handled, with Joe going defensive early on when there wasn't much in the way of damaging moves, then bringing it when the bombs started coming out to a degree that Angle couldn't keep up with. Despite talk in the other direction, this was Joe's match in every way, shape, and form and it's worth a look on those merits alone.


----------



## Caponex75

T-C said:


> It sucks to see what Joe has become. He was utter shit against Misawa who was doing everything to try and make Joe look great. Both people in the match have deteriorated beyond belief.


My opinion but I think you got it fucked up. Joe tried everything in his power to make the match good and Misawa just did not give a shit. The only thing that came good from the match was that Joe looked good in his attempt to carry his ass and I think all that flash got the audience to like him.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Oh dude I so disagree. Watch the match again, Joe is on offense 90% of the time and just dominates Misawa. All Misawa does is bump around for him. Joe got this incredible oppurtunity but all he did was go through the motions, move slowly, and not really build anything during his long ass control segment.


----------



## -Destiny-

Just watched Lockdown

Angle/Joe - ****1/2 (Absolutely loved this match)
Lethal Lockdown - ***3/4-**** (Ending seemed abit weak though)
X Division Title match - ***1/4

The rest was poor except for a solid womens tag match.


----------



## Sephiroth

Anyone else getting this when they try and look at the Indy DVD thread?

Unable to add cookies, header already sent.
File: /sites/wrestlingforum.com/www/htdocs/includes/class_core.php
Line: 3086


----------



## -Destiny-

Yep..


----------



## KeepItFresh

I had to sign out to view the last page in that thread. Quite lame.


----------



## Caponex75

MrPaiMei said:


> Oh dude I so disagree. Watch the match again, Joe is on offense 90% of the time and just dominates Misawa. *All Misawa does is bump around for him.* Joe got this incredible oppurtunity but all he did was go through the motions, move slowly, and not really build anything during his long ass control segment.


That's pretty much all he did. He was like a lifeless dummy that happened to have bones and suck at letting you carry him. Shima is good at letting people carry his ass when he feels like not doing that much but Misawa, not so much.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Joe vs. Angle - *** 1/2. I'm still waiting for ONE person to explain what's so good about this? Was it the abandoned story midway through? The piss poor selling of the back by Angle and the leg by Joe? How about the MMA feel match finishing with a muscle buster? The face controlling for 3/4 of the match? What makes this work?


----------



## T-C

PulseGlazer said:


> Joe vs. Angle - *** 1/2. I'm still waiting for ONE person to explain what's so good about this? Was it the abandoned story midway through? The piss poor selling of the back by Angle and the leg by Joe? How about the MMA feel match finishing with a muscle buster? The face controlling for 3/4 of the match? What makes this work?


I'm with you.


----------



## Claymore

PulseGlazer said:


> Joe vs. Angle - *** 1/2. I'm still waiting for ONE person to explain what's so good about this? Was it the abandoned story midway through? The piss poor selling of the back by Angle and the leg by Joe? How about the MMA feel match finishing with a muscle buster? The face controlling for 3/4 of the match? What makes this work?


Thank you Glazer....Thank you. You have pretty much summed up my opinion on the match right there....


----------



## STALKER

Finally watched lckdown last nighr heres my ratings

Xscape Match-***1/2
Queen Of The Cage-**1/2
BG/Kip-**1/4
Cuffed In The Cage-***
Kong/Melissa vs ODB/Kim-***
Booker/Sharmell vs Roode/Banks-***1/2
Lethal locdown-****
TNA title match-****1/4


----------



## Taroostyles

PulseGlazer said:


> Joe vs. Angle - *** 1/2. I'm still waiting for ONE person to explain what's so good about this? Was it the abandoned story midway through? The piss poor selling of the back by Angle and the leg by Joe? How about the MMA feel match finishing with a muscle buster? The face controlling for 3/4 of the match? What makes this work?


Are you saying Joe controlled 3/4 of the match? I haven't seen it since I saw it live, but it seemed like Angle was in control for practically the entire match. 

What makes the match good is the way the match was built, pretty much perfect. 

The beginning was a little more slow, but I don't think the plan was ever to keep it that slow all the way thru. 

It's definitely a love/hate type of match, but people who saw every bit of build definitely will appreciate it more I think.

It was exactly the match they were building it as, and told an absolutely perfect story IMO. It was light on action I guess, but I thought it was atleast ****1/4.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Just added this to my MOTYC list. A fantastic tag match from NOAH's Global Tag League. Compared with the other matches on the show there was always slow/dull moments on them, but this match kept pace all the way through from Marufuji & Sugiura going after the bandaged cut about Akiyama's eye to the ended moments where nobody would stay down for the finish. Terrific bout.

NOAH Global Tag League 04/12/08: Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura- ****1/4


----------



## Sephiroth

Q: Why it deserves anything above ****?
A: Cuz we're not trying to fucking analyze it and are just trying to enjoy it. We don't need to be "oh, Angle didn't sell the back, that was fucking stupid" to enjoy it. Apparently you do tho. So good for you. But quit trying to act like you're so much better than everyone who liked it more thann you. God, this is why you're such a fucking nerd when it comes to ratings and wrestling.

You're waiting for a reason? Maybe nobody cares enough to answer. This is just like what happened with Flair vs. HBK. We're gonna have 40+ pages of people arguing, flaming, and nothing good will come from it.


----------



## T-C

Sephiroth said:


> You're waiting for a reason? Maybe nobody cares enough to answer. This is just like what happened with Flair vs. HBK. We're gonna have 40+ pages of people arguing, flaming, and nothing good will come from it.


Yea, ah well.


----------



## -Mystery-

How do you rate a match if you don't analyze it? Obviously you're analyzing the match somehow if you're giving it a star rating. If you're just saying that you enjoyed the match then a star rating isn't necessary. The second you start to say why you enjoyed the match is the moment you start to analyze so your first comment is quite silly.

Also, Glazer makes same valid points yets gets flammed? Why? Is it because you have no valid counter points to make?


----------



## Sephiroth

Point is, you and Aaron are fucking assholes when it comes to this shit

Fuck you both.


----------



## -Mystery-

Sephiroth said:


> Point is, you and Aaron are fucking assholes when it comes to this shit
> 
> Fuck you both.


Because we explained why we didn't like the match as others? I guess you would've liked us to just give a rating and not explain why. Oh wait...you probably would've just flammed us for that too.


----------



## - Styles -

While I think It's pointless to argue over Star ratings, I'll give my opinion about why I rated Joe/Angle as high as I did.

I took into account the varying circumstances surrounding it. 

1. I'm a big Joe fan so him finally winning was great

2. The build was excellent for the match and going into it I knew they were going for a hybrid MMA style.

3. Gave them credit for trying something drastically different. Although others have seem similar style matches I hadn't so it was great to see something new.

4. The match itself was very absorbing with great ground submission style wrestling. I was immersed in the action and even though I knew Joe was winning it, doubt started to creep into my mind during the match where I didn't think it would.

I personally take into account these things when rating a match.
Take for instance 2 random wrestlers, say they have a **** match just out of the blue. With no build or no other reason to care about it besides it just being a good match.

Take the same 2, have them wrestle the exact same match and with added circumstances, for instance like the emotion behind the Flair match with his career on the line, or Joe finally winning the belt (his own career on the line as well) and it's sure to bump up the rating at least a little for me at least.

My 2 cents take it for what it's worth


----------



## Blasko

AjStyles>GOD said:


> 1. I'm a big Joe fan so him finally winning was great
> 
> p


 That's the reason why everyone is putting this match over, really. It's because of _Joe winning_.


----------



## Spartanlax

Joe winnning had absolutely no positive/negative effect on me enjoying the match or rating it so high. Joe hasn't had my interest in quite some time...it's a shame.

Just thought I'd let people know I'm one of the few that didn't have the thoughts on the match affected by the outcome.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> Are you saying Joe controlled 3/4 of the match? I haven't seen it since I saw it live, but it seemed like Angle was in control for practically the entire match.
> 
> What makes the match good is the way the match was built, pretty much perfect.
> 
> The beginning was a little more slow, but I don't think the plan was ever to keep it that slow all the way thru.
> 
> It's definitely a love/hate type of match, but people who saw every bit of build definitely will appreciate it more I think.
> 
> It was exactly the match they were building it as, and told an absolutely perfect story IMO. It was light on action I guess, but I thought it was atleast ****1/4.


Re-watch it. Besides leg work, Joe won nearly every encounter or at least blocked and countered what Angle succeeded in.

The outside of match build? We’re rating the match. Love the build all you want. It’s the MOTYC thread, not the BOTYC thread. (no offense, that came off condescending, but there’s art to what goes on in the ring, which is what most of us are discussing).

It wasn’t the match they were building. The match they were building would have MMA pay off and last all the way through. They built on MMA and hatred, along with Joe’s desperation. The first was abandoned and the last two were notably lacking. 



Sephiroth said:


> Q: Why it deserves anything above ****?
> A: Cuz we're not trying to fucking analyze it and are just trying to enjoy it. We don't need to be "oh, Angle didn't sell the back, that was fucking stupid" to enjoy it. Apparently you do tho. So good for you. But quit trying to act like you're so much better than everyone who liked it more thann you. God, this is why you're such a fucking nerd when it comes to ratings and wrestling.
> 
> You're waiting for a reason? Maybe nobody cares enough to answer. This is just like what happened with Flair vs. HBK. We're gonna have 40+ pages of people arguing, flaming, and nothing good will come from it.


Yeah, fuck logic, feelings are all that matter! Oh… wait, we’re going through the pros and cons of what lead to the feelings. Since only some had the feelings, let’s use analysis to figure out what was lacking to others. 

The lack of back selling was important, just like the lack of leg selling. Both don’t kill the match, I rated it very good, but they keep it from being great. Now, the leg work first. Joe sells it, it seems a lot more likely he’ll lose. The audience is invited to wonder “oh my god, with him limping around, how can he win when he can barely stand!?” This adds investment and reason to doubt the finish beyond “oh boy anklelock.” Prior knowledge is good, refreshing it with in ring action is far better. As for the back, Joe is making a huge comeback, killing Angle. Isn’t it easier to get into the fiery face’s destruction of the cowardly heel if the heel is actually taking a wild beating and making the face look like a great world beater? 

This isn’t analysis for analysis’s sake, though that has it’s place as well. This is examining why the match was not as successful with entire (or a reasonably close approximation of) the crowd and audience at home. TNA really seemed to assume the build would make up for the story gaffes in the ring, but while they are interconnected, both must stand on their own. The build manages to; the match doesn’t to the same extend.

Now, insert what Mystery said about this being a rating thread based on analysis and we’re done. 

In conclusion, suck my horribly long phallic symbol from an overrated game over a decade old.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

You actually sit there thinking all of this while watching the match? 

Sounds like you watch it like a critic too much instead of as a wrestling fan.

You can have your opinion, and your critiques, but it sounds like your to the point when your over critiquing it.


----------



## Taroostyles

The reason I say the build has so much to do with it is because the way the match was executed fit the way it was built perfectly. 

The match made absolutely perfect sense IMO, if they had gone out and had a bloody war like some people wanted, it would've totally voided all the stuff they did leading up to the match. 

I agree on the questionable selling by Joe on the leg, but I don't think it's enough for me to really take alot away from the match.

As far as the MMA style being thrown out halfway through, I think it was just a transition in the match. Angle was in control of Joe in that part of the match and Joe needed to make it a wrestling match in order to come out on top. 

If they were really having s "shoot" even if it was a worked "shoot", then it would be pretty unrealistic for Joe to go over on Angle in a real MMA style match.


----------



## PulseGlazer

M.S.I.I. said:


> You actually sit there thinking all of this while watching the match?
> 
> Sounds like you watch it like a critic too much instead of as a wrestling fan.
> 
> You can have your opinion, and your critiques, but it sounds like your to the point when your over critiquing it.


Actually I watch it, ask why, get lost in their story, get my feeling, then figure out the why's and what's of what worked and didn't work after the match. I only do the latter part if I'm intending to review it. I have a column coming on HBKFlair and JoeAngle coming Monday since they're easily the two biggest American matches this year.

And yes, well, I'm a critic, though I prefer analyst. I enjoy it. Many others enjoy reading the analysis. Many don't. To each their own.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Seriously, I rated the match **** and could careless about this so-called awesome build.

I would have rated it higher if it wasn't for the lacking of selling.

Stop with the build argument, please.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

PulseGlazer said:


> Actually I watch it, ask why, get lost in their story, get my feeling, then figure out the why's and what's of what worked and didn't work after the match. I only do the latter part if I'm intending to review it. I have a column coming on HBKFlair and JoeAngle coming Monday since they're easily the two biggest American matches this year.
> 
> And yes, well, I'm a critic, though I prefer analyst. I enjoy it. Many others enjoy reading the analysis. Many don't. To each their own.


Iight Mr. Big Shot.


----------



## Taroostyles

KeepItFresh said:


> Seriously, I rated the match **** and could careless about this so-called awesome build.
> 
> I would have rated it higher if it wasn't for the lacking of selling.
> 
> Stop with the build argument, please.


Well sorry, but it's a totally valid defense TBH.

Meltzer himself(who isn't fond of TNA in general) said something like "As far as building an epic match, this match was the best in the US in many years." Something along those lines.

It's not the build itself, it's the execution of the match in correlation with how the match was booked/built. It was 100% the exact match it should have been. 

I agree with the people about Joe selling the leg, hell I noticed it live but really didn't care since I was having such a great time.

I was including the bad selling in giving it ****1/4, I might even go higher even with it.


----------



## Blasko

Aaron Glazer is pimpin' in high places...


----------



## -Mystery-

How can you acknowledge bad selling and still give it ****1/4? The match was based around MMA thus it needs to seem 'real'. Hell, every match has to suspend disbelief and make the fans believe what they are watching is 'real'. However, back to my original point, Joe selling hurts the match greatly because TNA was attempting to make the match seem as 'real' as possible. If you're going to have a MMA based match, no-selling is a big no. It just can't happen because then it's no longer a MMA based match, it's just a regular old wrestling match.


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> How can you acknowledge bad selling and still give it ****1/4? The match was based around MMA thus it needs to seem 'real'. Hell, every match has to suspend disbelief and make the fans believe what they are watching is 'real'. However, back to my original point, Joe selling hurts the match greatly because TNA was attempting to make the match seem as 'real' as possible. If you're going to have a MMA based match, no-selling is a big no. It just can't happen because then it's no longer a MMA based match, it's just a regular old wrestling match.


There are so many matches that have bad selling that still get high ratings from people, too many to even list.

Hell, HBK/Flair had pretty bad selling and I see tons of people giving it *****.

Plus, I never actually said the selling was "bad". I just agree that it wasn't as good as it should have been.(Need to watch again to fully determine that, but I could tell it wasn't what it could've been)


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> There are so many matches that have bad selling that still get high ratings from people, too many to even list.
> 
> Hell, HBK/Flair had pretty bad selling and I see tons of people giving it *****.
> 
> Plus, I never actually said the selling was "bad". I just agree that it wasn't as good as it should have been.(Need to watch again to fully determine that, but I could tell it wasn't what it could've been)


Some people make a dumb call giving a perfect score to something that isn't near perfect. You want to follow that trend?


----------



## Taroostyles

PulseGlazer said:


> Some people make a dumb call giving a perfect score to something that isn't near perfect. You want to follow that trend?


I'm not making any kind of claim that Joe/Angle was 5* at all, I just think ****1/4 is atleast pretty fair.


----------



## PulseGlazer

I have no real beef with ****. It's about the highest I could see going with any claim at objectivity (honestly I marked for Joe winning. I love Joe), but it's a spectrum usually for just that reason.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Personally, I gave it **** because I could clearly see Joe dismantling Angle from the beginning and I thought the slow progression from it being almost back and forth to Joe just annihilating him told a pretty good story in and of itself, and showed Joe was clearly the best man to be on top of the company.

Your mileage may vary. It wasn't revolutionary or anything. It was just more or less the best and most cleverly disguised squash in the last few years.


----------



## PulseGlazer

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Personally, I gave it **** because I could clearly see Joe dismantling Angle from the beginning and I thought the slow progression from it being almost back and forth to Joe just annihilating him told a pretty good story in and of itself, and showed Joe was clearly the best man to be on top of the company.
> 
> Your mileage may vary. It wasn't revolutionary or anything. It was just more or less the best and most cleverly disguised squash in the last few years.


Agreed on all but Best. Awesome, awesome thought which I totally reserve the right to steal.

Best is King-Donst. Come on.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I'll be honest here and say I haven't seen King-Donst yet. I have both matches floating about somewhere, but just haven't gotten to them yet.

Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.


I'm curious as to what is on that comp, you got a link to the match listing? But yeah no Go/Danielson is a little sad, one of the better matches last year i've seen.


----------



## sirdilznik

I saw both of these matches live in Lowell, Massachusetts 4/13 but I wanted to see them on video before making my rating. Here goes:

*Lethal Lockdown - ****1/4* - Sweet ass War Games Match. Great build for several of the entrances. Stinger running in last with multiple low blow goodness that got the crowd exploding (when a face can get super positive reaction from a crowd on a super heel move like a super blatant low blow, you know he's over) Craziness on top of the cage. Semi-botch on the dangerous ladder slip on top but it *still* came off awesome. Super Hot Crowd! (But that's TNA all the time. Best fucking fans in the world. Yeah I said it.) Beer bottle smashin goodness. OK the gore sort of came out of nowhere (which can be good but not really in this case) so it fell short of ****1/2 because of that. Great match. The greatest testament is that this match was something along the lines of 28 minutes and it seemed like 10 super action packed minutes live and 15 super action packed minutes on tape. Wow!

*Kurt Angle(c) vs. Samoa Joe - ****** - Yep! That's right go ahead and send the flames my way ( /puts fire-proof suit on ) but this is not only *EASILY THE MATCH OF THE YEAR*, but also one of the best matches I have seen in a *long* time. Again I'm waiting for the flames, but this match rivals some of the Misawa/Kobashi and Kobashi/Kawada matches. Yep, that's right, soak it in I've said it. Go ahead and send the flames my way, but here is my full explanation, also take it with a grain of salt because I'm almost as big a MMA fan as I am a Pro Wresling fan. This match was *PERFECTION*. From the beginning MMA sequence. Being there in person I can tell you those kicks were f'n stiff. The nice double leg takedown by Angle. The quick mat reversals. The brutal Backdrop Driver by Kurt. The sweet ground and pound. The part where Kurt was in Joe's guard throwing punches not so much to hurt him, but to distract him and grabbing at arms while Joe flailed them in the air in defense. Even though Kurt didn't get a single armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) out of that, the dedication to the art in that sequence was amazing. They went away from the sweet MMA style worked shoot just at the right time as the few asshole smarks in the crowds started to try (with limited success) to get the hot crowd turned. The submission reversals on the ground were sweet. The amazing Fig 4 struggle with the almost turns and almost taps. The one nice quick heel rope pull by Angle at the beginning of the Fig 4 that the camera mainly missed (oh well it doesn't ruin the greatness of this amazing match). The sweet ass Judo throw by Joe. The near perfect Ankle Lock sequence with Joe rolling through it but Kurt staying with it, rolling with it. The absolutely *PERFECT* Joe Pin/Boston Crab sequence with Joe putting his knee in the upper back and Kurt crawling out to the side and using the referee's shirt to pull himself to the ropes. *SIMPLY AMAZING!!!*. The reversal into the Rear Naked Choke. The multiple reversals into the Cross Face were simly brilliant. The Musle Buster finisher was *PURE PERFECTION* right down to Joe hooking one leg and stepping over the other on the final pin. I love the Muscle Buster and he did it at just the right moment. In conclusion. Awesome crowd (Which I am proud to say I was a part off screaming my lungs out). Perfect amount of MMA (As a huge MMA fan I could have had with a couple more minutes but they changed over to pure wrestling just in time for the pure wrestling fans). All the little nuances down to a tee. Angle grabbing at armbars while distracting Joe with punches. Joe rolling through looking for a knee bar but Kurt gets to the ropes. Just amazing how well they blended the MMA and the wrestling and they made the transition into pure wrestling in the final half so smooth and still threw in some MMA hints down the line perfectly. The perfect amount of time. A bit of cage usage but not too much. Awesome near falls. Perfect flow. Karen dropping multiple F Bombs which adds 1/4 star on top of what was already ***** :agree: I'm a big believer in longer match doesn't necessarily equal better match. You can have a ***** match even if it's only 15 min. This match was the absolutely the perfect length for what it was. This was pretty much perfect in my eyes. Angle haters, Joe haters have at me. Fire away, but don't tell me I didn't explain why I feel the way I do.


----------



## -GP-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Right now I'm going through Goodhelmet's MOTYC 2007 8-disc set. That and a couple matches which aren't on there (Go vs. Danielson being most notable) will allow me to form my final 2007 MOTY list.


I'd be interested in that one as well...any details?


----------



## ROH

Sephiroth said:


> Q: Why it deserves anything above ****?
> A: Cuz we're not trying to fucking analyze it and are just trying to enjoy it. We don't need to be "oh, Angle didn't sell the back, that was fucking stupid" to enjoy it. Apparently you do tho. So good for you. But quit trying to act like you're so much better than everyone who liked it more thann you. God, this is why you're such a fucking nerd when it comes to ratings and wrestling.
> 
> You're waiting for a reason? Maybe nobody cares enough to answer. This is just like what happened with Flair vs. HBK. We're gonna have 40+ pages of people arguing, flaming, and nothing good will come from it.


Dude. Aaron Glazer is a wrestling fan. His goal isn't to analyse matches, it's to enjoy them like everyone else.

The thing with Aaron pointing out those flaws is he's saying, ultimately, what made the match less enjoyable for him. He's saying why it wasn't as enjoyable as it could have been.

It's analysing and enjoying at the same time, really. Not just nerd-like analysis like you're saying.


----------



## -Mystery-

Sorry but to say Joe/Angle rivals Misawa/Kobashi is....insane.

Also, I'm not sure how a match can be perfect when people (even those who liked the match) have pointed out the selling flaws in the match.


----------



## mateuspfc

ROH Breakout 
FIP World Title - Stevens (c) vs. Richards vs. Aries

******


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

-Mystery- said:


> Sorry but to say Joe/Angle rivals Misawa/Kobashi is....insane.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how a match can be perfect when people (even those who liked the match) have pointed out the selling flaws in the match.


To be fair he saw it live. Match live usually seem better than they really are.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> I'm curious as to what is on that comp, you got a link to the match listing? But yeah no Go/Danielson is a little sad, one of the better matches last year i've seen.


Ehh, I have Go vs. Danielson on a personal comp I made for myself anyway.

Huh. It's only 7 discs (6 plus bonus) Dunno why I thought it was 8.

Listing (including the two match reviews I've already done)

Disc 1

Sasaki, Kobayashi, Shadow WX & MASADA vs. Teioh, Kasai, Numazawa & Miyamoto (Big Japan 1/2/07) - ****1/4
This starts out as a crazy, weapons filled brawl then somehow turns into a stiff hatefest. It’s an amazingly well structured match filled with cringe inducing spots, violence, consistant selling, and an absolutely incredible closing stretch. It does, however, still suffer from many flaws inherent in this type of match, particularly the escalation leading to nearfalls that, by all rights, should have been finishes. Still...for a non-stop fun rollercoaster of violence you can’t go much better. I’ve heard Big Japan had a great 2007, and this was a great start to that.

Mistico vs. El Averno (CMLL 1/5/07) - ***1/4
This is going to be an eternal problem for me, because I’m really not that hot on Lucha in general. The match started okay, with Averno heeling it big time with a vicious attack and dominating him to hit three Angel’s Wings and quickly take the first fall. The second fall was just as quick, and Mistico tied it up with a rollup. The third fall, however, was a hugely mixed bag. On one hand, they brought the hate and had a really good, long match that built off the first two falls. On the other hand, it ran a bit too long, and had some serious logic gaps (Averno only went for the Angel’s Wings ONCE despite it winning the first fall for him), and an anticlimactic finish to top it off. All in all, it was a good match, but nothing I’m dying to watch again and not an MOTYC for me.

Briscoe Brothers vs. Marvin & Suzuki (NOAH 1/21/07) 
Freelance vs. Avisman (IWRG 1/21/07) 
MNM vs. The Hardy Boyz (Rumble 1/28/07) 
John Cena vs. Umaga (Rumble 1/28/07) 
Gran Apache vs. Billy Boy (Bull Terrier match) (AAA 2/9/07) 
Mistico vs. Black Warrior (CMLL 2/11/07)
Samoa Joe vs. Takeshi Morishima (ROH 2/16/07) 

Disc 2

Shuji Kondo vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (AJPW 2/17/07) 
Nigel McGuinness vs. Samoa Joe (ROH 3/3/07) 
Jimmy Jacobs vs. B.J. Whitmer (Falls Count Anywhere Match) (ROH 3/4/07) 
Gran Apache vs. Billy Boy (Street fight) (AAA 3/10/07) 
Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuki Miyamoto (Big Japan 3/14/07)
Samoa Joe vs. Eddie Kingston (FSM 3/17/07) 
Jimmy Jacobs vs. B.J. Whitmer (Cage Match) (ROH 3/31/07) 
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka & Shingo vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Masaaki Mochizuki (ROH 3/31/07) 
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (WM 4/1/07) 

Disc 3

Undertaker vs. Batista (WM 4/1/07) 
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero (Loser Leaves Town) (CZW 4/7/07) 
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJ 4/13/07) 
Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima (ROH 4/14/07) 
Akiyama & Rikio vs. Takayama & Sugiura (NOAH 4/28/07) 
John Cena vs. HBK vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton (Backlash 4/29/07) 
Ryuji Ito vs. Abdullah Kobayashi (Big Japan 4/30/07)
Dr. Wagner Jr. & ***** Casas vs. Hirooki Goto & Jushin Liger (Toryumon Mexico 5/12/07) 
Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Texas Death Match) (Sacrifice 5/13/07) 

Disc 4

John Cena vs. Great Khali (Judgment Day 5/20/07)
Chris Hero vs. Mike Quackenbush (Chikara 5/26/07) 
Muscle Outlaw'z vs. Typhoon vs. New Hazard (DG 6/5/07) 
King of the Mountain (Slammiversary 6/17/07) 
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH PPV 6/23/07) 
Minoru Suzuki vs. Keiji Mutoh (AJ 7/1/07) 
KENTA & Ishimori vs. Ibushi & Marufuji (NOAH 7/15/07) 
John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley (GAB 7/22/07) 
Mistico vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. (CMLL 7/27/07) 

Disc 5

Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Boston Street Fight) (ROH 8/10/07) 
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (ROH 8/25/07) 
John Cena vs. Randy Orton (Summerslam 8/26/07) 
Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Ladder Match) (ROH 9/15/07) 
Mask or Hair Cage Match (CMLL 9/28/07) 
Eddie Kingston vs. Chris Hero (Last Man Standing) (IWA-MS 9/29/07) 
Randy Orton vs. Triple H (Last Man Standing) (No Mercy 10/6/07) 
Umaga vs. Triple H (Street Fight) (Sunday 10/28/07) 

Disc 6

Undertaker vs. Batista (Sunday 10/28/07)
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto (New Japan 11/11/07) 
Kaz vs. Christian Cage (Ladder Match) (Genesis 11/11/07) 
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (ROH 11/3/07) 
Undertaker vs. Batista (Hell in a Cell) (Series 11/17/07) 
Misawa & Akiyama vs. Kobashi & Takayama (NOAH 12/2/07) 
Takashi Sasaki vs. Yuki Miyamoto (Big Japan 12/14/07) 
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries (ROH 12/29/07) 

Disc 7 (bonus disc, TV matches)

Finlay vs. Undertaker (SD! 3/9/07) 
John Cena vs. HBK (RAW 4/23/07)
Chris Harris vs. James Storm (Impact 6/7/07)
Finlay vs. Matt Hardy (SD! 6/22/07) 
CM Punk vs. John Morrison (ECW 9/4/07) 
Finlay vs. Rey Mysterio (SD! 11/9/07)


----------



## apocynthian

wow so much cena.


----------



## McQueen

Cena had a pretty awesome year in 2007 to be fair, only rivaled and surpassed by Tanahashi IMO.

UD just for shits and giggles i'm curious what you thought the MOTY was last year out of what you have seen. Personally I thought it was Tanahashi/Nagata from 4/13. So much love for that match.



> Mistico vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. (CMLL 7/27/07)


Oh Shit WAGNER/MISTICO!!!!! Must see!


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> Cena had a pretty awesome year in 2007 to be fair, only rivaled and surpassed by Tanahashi IMO.
> 
> UD just for shits and giggles i'm curious what you thought the MOTY was last year out of what you have seen. Personally I thought it was Tanahashi/Nagata from 4/13. So much love for that match.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Shit WAGNER/MISTICO!!!!! Must see!


Tana vs. Nagata was in the ****1/2 range for me. My current pick for MOTY is Cena vs. Michaels from Mania at ****3/4, slightly tailed by Kobashi's return match, at a slightly lower ****3/4.

Also worth noting, that set is a mere $30, shipping included (overseas adds $5) Best deal around imo.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> Oh Shit WAGNER/MISTICO!!!!! Must see!


heh, the crowd is awesome in this match if it's the one i'm thinking of. it's almost Cena levels of hate

men are like 100% Wagner and the kids and women are 100% Mistico. then by the end it's like 90% for Wagner


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Tana vs. Nagata was in the ****1/2 range for me. My current pick for MOTY is Cena vs. Michaels from Mania at ****3/4, slightly tailed by Kobashi's return match, at a slightly lower ****3/4.


Fair enough as both are excellent matches as well.



Sephiroth said:


> heh, the crowd is awesome in this match if it's the one i'm thinking of. it's almost Cena levels of hate
> 
> men are like 100% Wagner and the kids and women are 100% Mistico. then by the end it's like 90% for Wagner


I've only seen like 6 matches of Wagner Jr. since I don't follow Lucha but man I love that guy, I really think I need to look this up now.


----------



## Blasko

Joe/Angle is up there Misawa/Kobashi and Kobashi/Kawada matches?

What kind of bullshit is this?


----------



## -GP-

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Also worth noting, that set is a mere $30, shipping included (overseas adds $5) Best deal around imo.


Who sells it?


----------



## Claymore

Everyone should check out the following, that has just been posted in the media section -

IWGP Heavyweight Title: Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi 

........Fantastic


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I'd also be interested in that comp, $30 is a steal for all that material. Where can it be found?


----------



## sirdilznik

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Joe/Angle is up there Misawa/Kobashi and Kobashi/Kawada matches?
> 
> What kind of bullshit is this?


I gave my reasons and I stand by everything I wrote 100%. The match was awesome live though at times it was hard to see with people standing up in front of me. Despite that I loved every second of it. On video it was even better. I loved that match so much I'm going to watch it again later tonight. I have to watch some of the Misawa/Kobashi and Kobashi/Kawada classics to really gauge against them because Joe/Angle V is fresh in my mind and those I haven't watched in a while, but I'll probably watch Joe/Angle at least 2 or 3 more times this weekend alone. It was that good. Everything was perfect right down to Karen - "Don't ****** touch me! Don't you ****** put a hand on me!" So awesome!

But hey I forgot, it's not ROH or puro so it can't possibly be *****. What was I thinking


----------



## Blasko

sirdilznik said:


> But hey I forgot, it's not ROH or puro so it can't possibly be *****. What was I thinking


 Fantastic logic. I'm completely speechless.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Not much these days besides ROH or puro reaches ***** these days. Mexico has some good stuff occasionally, but TNA has been on a down hill slide for some time. The last enjoyable fued I saw was AJ and Daniels vs. LAX.


----------



## Sephiroth

Maxx Hero said:


> Not much these days besides ROH or puro reaches ***** these days. Mexico has some good stuff occasionally, but TNA has been on a down hill slide for some time. The last enjoyable fued I saw was AJ and Daniels vs. LAX.


Nothing in TNA has come close since Joe vs. Angle 2, and before that, Joe vs. Daniels vs. Styles (which was 5 imo)

As for WWE, are you kidding? Cena put on a string of **** - **** 3/4 matches last year that are noteworthy. A lot of people thought Cena vs. HBK from England was close to 5 (I personally didn't since I thought their match at WM 23 was better and closer to 5 stars than anything that year). There are more I could mention, but I'm sure someone will have a better argument than me (and -Mystery- will rag on me for being a hypocrite )


----------



## Taroostyles

Well it also depends on what you consider "close" to 5*, if you mean ****3/4-***** then yeah I would agree. 

But I would say Joe/Styles from TP 05 was probably 5* too, atleast ****3/4 and that match happened after the Unbreakable 3 way. 

It's kinda crazy that from Dec 04-Dec 05 they had 5 matches that were atleast ****3/4 IMO and since then maybe they've had one.(Joe/Angle 2, but I actually only gave it ****1/2 but I could see giving it the other 1/4*)

Also tho, I really don't think the WWE has really had anything close in the last few years either. The last E match I would give atleast ****3/4 is Angle/HBK from WM 21.

Both companies had numerous ****1/4-****1/2 matches in 06/07, but neither has had one higher since 05 IMO.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

GP_Punk said:


> Who sells it?





Taroostyles said:


> Yeah I'd also be interested in that comp, $30 is a steal for all that material. Where can it be found?


Goodhelmet from DVDVR.

That's all I'm saying, so no one else ask.



sirdilznik said:


> But hey I forgot, it's not ROH or puro so it can't possibly be *****. What was I thinking


a) That has nothing to do with anything.

b) Your opinion is your opinion, however, I and many others found Angle vs. Joe somewhat generally lacking, and your reasoning basically amounted to "The moves were well executed and heat was off the charts" which doesn't really amount to a ***** match. If you can tell me what kind of story you thought they told, I might believe ya.

c) Puro amounts to about a dozen plus odd feds, and really there aren't that many more ***** matches out of all of them than there are out of the combined American feds.


----------



## sirdilznik

TheUnholyDragon said:


> b) Your opinion is your opinion, however, I and many others found Angle vs. Joe somewhat generally lacking, and* your reasoning basically amounted to "The moves were well executed and heat was off the charts" which doesn't really amount to a ***** match*. If you can tell me what kind of story you thought they told, I might believe ya.


In *your opinion* it doesn't amount to a ***** match. I have my own standards. Story can be very overrated IMHO. If the story helps me enjoy the match then great, but it's not essential for me. The bottom line for me is how much did I enjoy the match? Answer: I enjoyed it immensely. However since you want story, here you go: The ground and pound specialist with Jiu-Jitsu skills versus the wrestler. Joe's struggle to overcome the world-class amateur wrestling pedigree of the hardened champion and impose his will despite the superior ground control of his opponent under the most dire of circumstances, with his very career on the line. There is a part near the end of the match where a worn down Joe stumbles into a corner seemingly over matched and totally spent. Kurt charges in for the kill and Joe steps out of the corner and hits a desperation one armed ST Joe with pain written all over his face and stumbling on the injured leg as he struggles to overcome the odds. That sequence was such a beautiful microcosm of the match as a whole.

One of the greatest testaments to the greatness of this match is that going into it I (and everybody else) knew full well that Joe would win. 100%, no doubt. Despite that there were points in the match that had me truly feeling like Angle would win. This is the type of match that I will remember 10 years from now and cherish the memory of having been there. I loved it that much. One of the greatest matches I have ever seen, period.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Jimmy Jacobs v.s B.J. Whitmer from IWA-MS 500th Show ****3/4.

This was just an epic brawl. These two beat the living hell out eachother. Seriously is number 2 on MOTYC list now. It's hard to explain after watching it how good it actually was... It was just awesome.


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Was that the barbed wire match? Cause i heard that was one of the most insane matches in America for the past couple years.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Now that was their I Quit Match there was no Barbwire.

I actually changed the rating to ****1/2-****3/4. It will probably be the best IWA-MS match I see this year... Unless their other match you mentioned Lunchbox is infact better.


----------



## ROH

sirdilznik said:


> Story can be very overrated IMHO.


Ugh, without storytelling wrestling wouldn't be wrestling.


----------



## McQueen

ROH said:


> Ugh, without storytelling wrestling wouldn't be wrestling.


Indeed, this is why no matter how skilled the man is Doug Williams will forever be an epic fail in the grand scheme of the wrestling business. Without a story in a match then it would just be MOVEZ!, but then again MOVEZ! can be fun sometimes.


----------



## sirdilznik

ROH said:


> Ugh, without storytelling wrestling wouldn't be wrestling.


I'm not saying it doesn't have a place in wrestling and it certainly can make a match better and more entertaining to have a great stroy to a match, but some people act like story and psychology are the end all, be all of a wrestling match. What I'm saying is they're not. They are but 2 of many factors that determine whether I enjoy a match or not.


----------



## ROH

sirdilznik said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't have a place in wrestling and it certainly can make a match better and more entertaining to have a great stroy to a match, but some people act like story and psychology are the end all, be all of a wrestling match. What I'm saying is they're not. They are but 2 of many factors that determine whether I enjoy a match or not.


When I first really got into wrestling (I always liked it before, but not that much) through ROH, back in late 2005, I used to write brief DVD reviews when I had nothing to do (back then we got little to no school work). Looking back, I didn't enjoy certain matches because I said 'it was just wrestling'. Nowadays, after learning alot more about wrestling and re-watching some of those matches, I realised those matches that had no stories and consisted of just moves weren't enjoyable or engaging.

I know that's just how I see it, but if you look at all the classic matches throughout time that have _really_ got the crowd to care (Autin/Hart, Owen/Hart for example), storytelling is prominent. Matches with no storytelling (lots of Briscoe tags, general Indy spotfests) make the crowd react, but not *care*.

Hell, even talking to Martin Stone on the journey back home from King of Trios, he said he didn't like lots of the matches at KOT (Team IWS vs Team F1RST for example) because they just weren't telling stories. He appreciated what they were doing, but he said it wasn't engaging enough for him. (For the record I do like the fast paced CHIKARA 6 man style and lots of matches that weekend did tell stories, so my love of them isn't contextually hypocritical)

Stroytelling makes the viewer care, so it's one of, if not the most prominent point in wrestling. It literally is not possible to be overrated. It's not something you rate/say is good or bad. You wouldn't have wrestling without it; it can't be overrated.

-----

As far as MOTYCs go, I'm lowering Aries/Stevens from Proving Ground from ****1/2 to ****_****1/4. No particlar reason; I guess could have had some more nearfalls.

Aries/Shiozaki from ROH 6YA ruled my soul. Everything good about wrestling in there. *****1/4*, would be ****1/2nbut the middle section was too slow.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I feel that story is key to wrestling, but that is not the soul base of ratings. I agree that it should be how entertained I am. A story can do this wonderfully, ala Danielson and Nigel's stuff in 2006. Story can be replaced if the match is freaking insane. To me, Speed Muscle against Kel Steenerico didn't seem to have much story besides nearfalls, which is explainable with the language barrier (I know it can be traversed like Joe vs. Kobashi, but this is rare), but that match had me caring. I was blown out of my mind by the moves they were doing and the resilience that they showed with the kick outs. 

Can moves always make up for a lack of story? No. Example, I watched WSX after going to one ROH show, and never seeing anything indy or Japan on DVD. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread #2 (Marufuji does it better than Kendrick imo). The day that season one DVD came out I got it (along with a free best of the deathmatches). I watched it cover to cover and gave nothing a good rating. These little sprint matches were cool with the moves and all but there was nothing super interesting to make me remember it after I watched the next match.

Often times I may give crazy matches good ratings but move them down later. I gave the Team Ca$h vs. BLK OUT COD ****1/2 on first viewing (minus 1/2 because the finish sucked big time), but after viewing again I bumped it down to ***1/2. Sure that stuff was cool, but I would rather watch something with substance. This seems to be regular for me with matches of the hardcore nature. Trent Acid and Homicides match at WrestleRave got a ****1/2 at first, but I now have it at ****.

I think ratings are like foods. The basic moves are like the carbs, they keep you going. It may not be oyour favorite food those arm drags and shoulder tackles, but they are key to your substance. Dairy is charisma and crowd interacion, like bones, it strengthens the match. Your meat is the big moves like powerbombs and finishers like the the half nelson suplex. They are cool, but if you just rely on them you will be unhealthy, and the matches would be terrible. Technical mat work is your fruits and vegetables. We may not like it, I mean eww, asparagus (headlocks to you Danielson), but some of it can be good chain wrestling which is pretty sweet, like strawberries. Last but not (well maybe it is) least is spots and random indy MoVEZ, your sugars and fats. You can not just eat chocolate, and thus you need to do more than flips and head drops to get over.


----------



## sirdilznik

^^^ Damn that is a might good post Maxx. You put a lot of what I've been trying to say a heck of a lot more eloquently than I could ever have. Anyway I agree with pretty much dang everything you wrote.


----------



## Blasko

Trent Acid and **** 1/2 makes my stomach turn...


----------



## KeepItFresh

I stopped reading after ratings are like food.


----------



## McQueen

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Trent Acid and **** 1/2 makes my stomach turn...


Normally I'd agree but I did really enjoy that F.W.H. match he had with Homicide. **** 1/2 might be pushing it though.

Edit: Nevermind I saw Maxx downed it to ****, I could live with that.


----------



## mateuspfc

ROH Breakout
ROH World Title - McGuinness (c) vs. Hero

*****-****1/4*

Poor Dempsey.


----------



## vivalabrave

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Trent Acid and **** 1/2 makes my stomach turn...


Maybe you should take some Trent _Antacid_


----------



## KingKicks

Just finished watching 5 new ROH shows and have a few new MOTYC's.

*ROH Breakout*
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ****1/4
*
ROH Without Remorse*
Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards and Rocky Romero vs. BJ Whitmer and Brent Albright vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ****
Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ****1/4
*
ROH 6th Anniversary Show*
Roderick Strong vs. Necro Butcher vs. Erick Stevens - ***3/4-****
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ****1/4-****1/2
Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## IC

ROH said:


> I know that's just how I see it, but if you look at all the classic matches throughout time that have _really_ got the crowd to care (Autin/Hart, Owen/Hart for example), storytelling is prominent. Matches with no storytelling (lots of Briscoe tags, general Indy spotfests) make the crowd react, but not *care*.


This is exactly how I feel, I think getting the crowd to care about the outcome of the match is far more vital to getting a ***** (or close to) rating than having two guys who can do 1001 submission holds and complicated reversals with no meaning behind them.

Also, has Dave Meltzer rated Angle/Joe V yet because he seemed very positive about it on the night?


----------



## Taroostyles

^His rating isn't out yet, but I would guess atleast ****1/2 from him if not higher.


----------



## T-C

Dave gave it 4 and a quarter.


----------



## Taroostyles

T-C said:


> Dave gave it 4 and a quarter.


When did the rating come out? The match only happened last Sunday.


----------



## KingKicks

*FIP Redefined*
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - ****1/2

They didn't just have a match, they had a bloody brutal war and i feel i could go even higher with this rating.


----------



## El Conquistador

NJPW (02-17-08) - AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi *****1/4*

Completely thrilled with the entire match. So far, this might just be the best actual 'wrestling' match I've seen from 2008. This encounter was awfully similar to Sabin/Nakajima from last year, imo. Awesome, awesome match; Tanahashi brought the best out of AJ.

Why can't Styles perform like this all the time? The guy has so much potential yet struggles to put it on full display consistently.


----------



## Taroostyles

^I agree, awesome match. One of the more overlooked matches so far this year, but definitely one of my favorites. 

To be fair to AJ, he really hasn't been given the opputunity in a long time to put on really great singles matches.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH 4/19/08
The Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns - ***** 1/4 *
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico - ******


----------



## Burning Sword

IMO, Tanahashi has been having an excellent year up until his injury

(NJ 1/4/08) Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura- ****1/4
(NJ 2/7/08)AJ Styles vs. Tanahashi- ****-****1/4
(All Japan 3/1/08) Tanahashi and Muto vs. Kawada and Kea- ****1/4
(Champion's Carnival 4/6/08)Tanahashi vs. Taiyo Kea- ****1/4
(Champion's Carnival 4/7/08)Tanahashi vs. Keiji Muto- ****, maybe more


----------



## PulseGlazer

I'll arrive at the storytelling point later on. For now, reviews of the two controversial matches, from my column.

Sorry this is a week late, but this week we’ll take a look at the biggest match of the year, Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels. Within isn’t play-by-play, but the reasons behind the actions two of wrestling’s greatest in the ring. Below will be an analysis of the match, followed by a discussion of Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle from TNA Lockdown in a similar format. 

Wrestlemania XXIV: Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels

Early establishment has Michaels ahead on speed and strength. Flair shows he can counter/think a step ahead. Flair manages control off of this, as everytime Michaels gets any momentum he attempts a huge move, which the wily Flair remains ahead of. This, of course, leads to Michaels busted ribs on the dive. Flair goes right after the ribs for the next several minutes, with Michaels selling superbly. Michaels gets some offense, but shows that he’s learned nothing, immediately barely glancing on another huge dive. The physical advantage Michaels had early is all but negated due to these huge risks,while Flairs wiles pay off in his avoiding all of these huge moves. 

Back in and Michaels shows he’s still physically superior, taking out Flair in a slugfest, then using atomic drops and slams to keep him down before going for the big elbow, which connects. Michaels readies for Sweet Chin Music, but second thoughts allow the leg work to begin. 

Both men, exhausted, wrestle on the mat, but the hurt ribs hamper HBK to where he can’t bridge and thus Flair controls, using both the weakened ribs and leg to damage Michaels. Shawn, hurt and selling like mad, has next to nothing left after another Figure Four, so it’s pure luck when he hits the desperation Sweet Chin Music, saving his shot at winning. 

Flair again shows his wiles, refusing to get up at the tuning of the band and going with cheating, retakes control. Flair’s cheating to get ahead emphasizes how much better Michaels is and how he has lasted well longer into this match. Michaels controls at every moment of breath, while Flair has to cheat to keep a chance. This plays out with Michaels being too strong, nailing back to back Super Kicks, before the second of which mouthing the now famous “I’m sorry; I love you.”

Shawn Michaels defeats Ric Flair

Attempting objectivity- Flair vs. Michaels was **** - **** 1/4. This is if we apply the same criteria to any match and ignore the situation, judging just on what most will agree are the makings of a great, great match. 

Michaels and Flair built an awesome story. Michaels was a clearly superior talent at this point, but Flair hurt the ribs and legs showed that he still had a lot to offer by using his veteran wiles. The hurt ribs were meant to even the playing field and Flair worked them over fairly well, with chops, suplexes and more. Why was Michaels still so dominant that he could win any time then? It works for awhile, but even a wounded Michaels has more stamina than Flair at this point, so once the ribs won’t put HBK away, Flair isn’t focused enough on that part to keep his physical advantage as he visibly tires.

Next, the leg work. Flair is a huge vet. He knows which leg Michaels uses for Sweet Chin Music and that it’s a killer finisher. How about working that leg? Or, even if not, shouldn’t the other leg and broken ribs impede at least some of those Sweet Chin Musics and prevent shit like a kip up. Now, that can be blown off as minor, if you see Flair’s attempts to win and strategy as minor… Michaels selling was great, but it failing to consistently affect his offense was a major problem. 

None of the work Flair does plays into the finish. It’s as if Michaels can finish at any time, which undermines all the work put in earlier to make it seem like Flair could legitimately win. The finish should build to a logical conclusion while incorporating all the elements earlier in the match. What they did flowed so well that the rating is still great, but 

Like I’ve said elsewhere- invent a separate category for matches like this and the Kobashi-return match. They’re fantastic and don’t need the star ratings to be as special as they are. If ratings are to be applied, objectivity can be maintained, while analysis can explain both this and what makes this such a memorable and special encounter between two legends. 

In a far different match from one which said “Goodbye” to a legend, we have a match that attempts to be a major stepping stone to a rising star’s career. This match is from TNA Lockdown and features Samoa Joe’s first TNA Championship win. Since the very first A Modest Response was a review of Joe vs. Angle 1, I thought I had to review this. 

TNA Lockdown: Steel Cage Match for the TNA Championship: Kurt Angle © vs. Samoa Joe

They begin with some faux MMA, where Angle tries to take it to the mat and Joe attempts at striking. This continues with Joe showing greater skill at both throws and strikes, but Angle’s constant leg attacks, including the figure four of all the non-MMA moves, seem more likely to pay off later when Angle attempts the Ankle Lock. 

Angles control off the figure off alternates wear downs and leg attacks. The weardown attempts don’t work and Joe gets in strikes, leading to control. As the control builds, Joe begins using moves in combination, showing an increased skill in wearing Angle down. That most of these are big moves which focus on the back, like the Muscle Buster, only adds to Angle’s problems.

As Joe goes with submissions, Angle remains in trouble until he locks in an Ankle Lock out of nowhere. Joe turned that around with a crossface and continues his domination. That’s rolled through to an Olympic Slam and Angle is now in pure desperation, looking for a big move and win, since nothing he’s trying to slow Joe down is working. 

Angle is tenacious with his Ankle Lock, but again Joe has a counter and locks in the choke. Kurt uses the ref to reach the ropes. Joe gets up, kicks Angle in the face, and hits the Muscle Buster for the win… that was casual.

Samoa Joe defeats Kurt Angle

Rating: *** ½ 

So, not so hot. They built the MMA (which was really more badly done Inoki strong style, but whatever), then utterly abandoned it. Why go so far to get the feel, only to switch styles mid-way and go with a regular TNA match? This could have been somewhat salvaged by finishing with the choke, which would allow us to use that as an establishment period early on, but really, a Muscle Buster? In a MMA-style match?

They did some decent MMA stuff, which was slow, but all it and the rest of the match established is that “Joe has Angle’s number.” Joe won every exchange that didn’t include leg work or the Angle Slam. That’s all well and good as a payoff, but it doesn’t go a long way towards building drama. 

So, if the face controlling everything didn’t build drama, what did they do to try further? Joe at least had the sense to build to the finish by using a lot of back work, while Angle built some good leg work. Unfortunately, neither man so much as grabbed at the injured parts, let alone actually having it affect their offense, so while it is there for those who look, it’s not highlighted in the least. 

There was good here. Both men worked their holds in quite well, while Angle avoiding over-use of the Ankle Lock until late. The back and forth early on was slow, but meant to be. 

As an angle, this was a home run. Kurt, acting like he was an MMA God then Joe having his number at both MMA and wrestling was satisfying since Angle has killed Joe so thoroughly in the past and because of all of those interviews Kurt gave. The story in ring leaned far too much on that. What they did was jarring and, artistically, as a match, sub par. For a match rating to be high, it needs to be more than, as wrestlingforum.com member UnholyDragon says, “most cleverly disguised squash in the last few years.”

The MMA was, still, fairly rare and well done for America. Unfortunately, Angle did not look comfortable in the style, while Joe, who has trained at New Japan’s LA Dojo, was far more comfortable. Angle’s discomfort and Joe’s smoothness only added to the feeling that this was Joe’s night. Should Angle have gone to the mat hard with leg work after that, we might have gotten somewhere. As is, a lack of selling, switch of styles (which made sense in context, but, again was jarring), and too much control for Joe caused this to be far more good than great.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Dude. I got a reference. Sweet!

My opinions have now shown up on both 411mania and InsidePulse despite neither being interested in my reviews.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Burning Sword said:


> IMO, Tanahashi has been having an excellent year up until his injury
> 
> (NJ 1/4/08) Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura- ****1/4
> (NJ 2/7/08)AJ Styles vs. Tanahashi- ****-****1/4
> (All Japan 3/1/08) Tanahashi and Muto vs. Kawada and Kea- ****1/4
> (Champion's Carnival 4/6/08)Tanahashi vs. Taiyo Kea- ****1/4
> (Champion's Carnival 4/7/08)Tanahashi vs. Keiji Muto- ****, maybe more


I'm in agreement with you here. I bumped Tanahashi/Kea up from **** to ****1/4 after another watch (that backdrop never gets any less disgusting) and is probably my puro MOTY so far, I thought the Nakamura match from 1/4 was ****, and the w/Mutoh v Kawada/Kea is ****-****1/4 for me too. Haven't seen the AJ and Mutoh matches yet though and still too see the Kawada match from the CC (which I still can't wait for).


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH Breakout
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ***** 1/4*


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Speaking of Tyler Black, when does his match against McGuiness air on PPV? Im really looking forward to that.


----------



## McQueen

Question:


M.W. said:


> Tanahashi brought the best out of AJ.
> 
> Why can't Styles perform like this all the time? The guy has so much potential yet struggles to put it on full display consistently.


Answer: Because Tanahashi is better than anyone else in wrestling right now.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Which is funny, because like a year and a half prior everyone hated him and considered him wholly undeserving of his spot.


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Which is funny, because like a year and a half prior everyone hated him and considered him wholly undeserving of his spot.


Yeah I was sorta one of those people (didn't hate him though). A year and a half ago all he could really do was play the handsome underdog babyface but he really grew and improved over the last year.

Maybe it's just me but I thought all of the IWGP Title matches last year were pretty awesome save Tana/Kea.


----------



## Caponex75

Any thoughts about some of the PWG MOTYCs?


----------



## SCSA101

Here are mine:

Undertaker vs. Edge (WrestleMania)

Ric Flair vs. HBK (WrestleMania)

Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (Lockdown)


----------



## Burning Sword

Caponex75 said:


> Any thoughts about some of the PWG MOTYCs?


The only PWG MOTYC I've seen is Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson. Easily the best opener to a PWG show and quite possibly their best match together. I gave it ****1/4.


----------



## Caponex75

I actually thought it was good but not that good. Match had the big stars in it but it didn't really capture as much as I would of liked. Low-ki pounding Daielson with elbows is FTW tho. What are your thoughts on the PWG European Vacation matches? Specficly Richards/Dragon vs. Generico/Steen II, Generico/Danielson II, and Dragon/Richards vs. Pac/Steen.



Benjo™;5645486 said:


> *FIP Redefined*
> Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - ****1/2
> 
> They didn't just have a match, they had a bloody brutal war and i feel i could go even higher with this rating.


Mind passing the link?


----------



## Taroostyles

Joe/Angle-Impact 4/24-****-****1/4

Kind of a weak finish, but an incredible TV match.(I didn't expect a clean finish anyway since I saw the 3 way coming)


----------



## - Styles -

^ Pretty much agree, the finish hurt the match ALOT, but still around **** I'd put it. For a tv match is doesn't get much better than that. Angle is having one hell of a year so far. His matches with Cage and Joe have been amazing. :agree:


----------



## KeepItFresh

Joe/Angle Lockdown was ****.

The Impact was ***-***1/4 at best. The finish sucked and Angle showing that he was going to throw Joe out of the ring was lame as well. Seriously.


----------



## New School Fire

I did love the Angle and Joe match on iMPACT and though I think the finish did not effect it too much as I found it awesome to see Joe use the Island Driver to win, but as of now I have it at ***3/4, Ill have to watch it again before I give it a final rating.


----------



## sirdilznik

*Joe/Angle VI iMPACT 4/24 - **** 1/4*. The match was awesome. Joe selling the knee. The HUGE ST Joe. The underlying Karen theme. It didn't have the "special" feeling of the Lockdown match (I still stand fully and firmly behind my ***** and MOTDC rating for that match as ever after 6 viewings) but it was an excellent match nonetheless.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah, I would rank it probably 3rd or 4th out of their 6 matches. Definitely not better than the Lockdown or TP 06 matches and probably right on par with the Genesis 06 match.


----------



## Burning Sword

I begin to protest against watching Impact so far, but I'm going to watch this match only. I hope Angle/Joe is good as everyone saids it is.


----------



## Taroostyles

^It's very good, but the finish isn't clean and was there to setup a triple threat between Joe/Angle/Steiner.

With a clean finish, I could see going even higher. Sorta like the Angle/Cage matches from earlier this year, very good but the ending takes away fromt the final rating.


----------



## -GP-

Which is so funny (frustrating?) with TNA, because the finish is supposed to be the bit that really gets you going and makes most matches special...


----------



## -Mystery-

KeepItFresh said:


> The Impact was ***-***1/4 at best. The finish sucked and Angle showing that he was going to throw Joe out of the ring was lame as well. Seriously.


Gotta agree with you. I was pretty damn disappointed with this match and it's by far their worst match to date.


----------



## Taroostyles

-Mystery- said:


> Gotta agree with you. I was pretty damn disappointed with this match and it's by far their worst match to date.


Hard Justice 07 is definitely their worse match IMO, not as good wrestling and an even lamer finish.

It was better than their Ironman Match as well I thought, I guess the finish killed it for some people.

Event though nobody really should've been expecting a clean finish since Joe just went over Angle clean 2 weeks ago and it was clear as day that the 3 way was going down.


----------



## Saint Dick

Joe/Angle - Impact - ***1/2

Good match but the finish sucked hard.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I've rewatched and decided on ***3/4-****. 

So maybe it's not quite a MOTYC, but the unclean finish really shouldn't have surprised anyone. The weak Island Driver tho also made the finish look weak.


----------



## T-C

Whether it surprised anyone or not it still takes away from the match.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Burning Sword said:


> The only PWG MOTYC I've seen is Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson. Easily the best opener to a PWG show and quite possibly their best match together. I gave it ****1/4.


Hero vs. Tornado at Pearl Habra is **** too.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah, I incorporated that into that rating.

With a totally clean finish, it would atleast be a 1/4-1/2* higher.


----------



## Saint Dick

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah I've rewatched and decided on ***3/4-****.
> 
> So maybe it's not quite a MOTYC, but the unclean finish really shouldn't have surprised anyone. The weak Island Driver tho also made the finish look weak.


I wonder why Joe didn't use the Muscle Buster or the choke.


----------



## sirdilznik

I'm actually a big fan of using alternative moves to finish once in a while, but I have to agree, predictable or not, that the finish sucked. I'm downgrading my rating for Joe/Kurt IV to ****. I was hyped up when I first posted my rating. I still thoroughly enjoyed the match though.


----------



## Burning Sword

I watched Joe v. Angle earlier and it was pretty good. I'll have to watch it again to give my final rating but for now I'll give it ***3/4.


----------



## El Conquistador

From my perspective, the match was a lot more appealing and astronomically better in terms of quality than their Lockdown encounter. I can't distinguish why I find it the most impressive of their two recent matches but I'll just attribute it to the fact that I enjoyed it more?

Lockdown match = ***1/4
iMPACT! match = ***1/2


----------



## New School Fire

I watched Angle vs. Joe VI for the second time and I am sticking with my ***3/4 rating. The match was very good all the way through and though the finish was dirty, I was not really affected by it. For sure it would have been better without it but all he did was a brief hit to Angle, if I would have looked away for two seconds I would have never noticed it. Island Driver was not the most affecting looking ever, but I was happy to see it.


----------



## mateuspfc

WWE SmackDown! 04/25

Edge vs. Punk ****3/4*
Undertaker vs. Batista *****


----------



## ROH

mateuspfc said:


> Undertaker vs. Batista *****


This thread sucks.


----------



## mateuspfc

ROH said:


> This thread sucks.


I agree.


----------



## Spartanlax

Chris Sicoli (me, Spartanlaxxx) & Aaron Glazer (PulseGlazer, HBK826) Review Angle/Joe from iMPACT to show why it's not a MOTYC, as well as some other iMPACT thoughts.



> HBK826 (10:29:29 PM): Joe angle now
> Spartanlaxxx (10:29:46 PM): im watching.....not sure why
> HBK826 (10:30:00 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:30:05 PM): Same
> HBK826 (10:43:39 PM): So
> HBK826 (10:43:49 PM): Joe is squashing him again
> Spartanlaxxx (10:44:00 PM): so...i really havent watched at all, i could care less for some reason
> Spartanlaxxx (10:44:13 PM): when joe/angle is no longer interesting, something is wrong
> HBK826 (10:44:40 PM): Lol
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:26 PM): ....WTF
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:32 PM): did he just RANDOMLY hit a german?!
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:40 PM): as in, kick to gut, then a GERMAN?
> HBK826 (10:45:48 PM): Yes.
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:51 PM): WHY!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?
> HBK826 (10:45:53 PM): His first offense
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:57 PM): I KNOW
> HBK826 (10:45:59 PM): All match
> Spartanlaxxx (10:45:59 PM): WHAT THE FUCK
> Spartanlaxxx (10:46:10 PM): THAT WAS THE MOST RANDOM NONSENSICAL....BLAH
> HBK826 (10:46:10 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:46:15 PM): I don't know.
> HBK826 (10:46:32 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:46:37 PM): Its not storytelling
> HBK826 (10:46:43 PM): There's no transition
> HBK826 (10:46:48 PM): Where's my angle writeup LOL
> Spartanlaxxx (10:46:51 PM): this is retarded
> Spartanlaxxx (10:46:55 PM): use this convo as your angle write-up
> Spartanlaxxx (10:46:57 PM): honestly
> HBK826 (10:47:13 PM): Lol
> Spartanlaxxx (10:47:15 PM): dont get the ropes right in front of you, no
> Spartanlaxxx (10:47:18 PM): thatd make sense
> Spartanlaxxx (10:47:19 PM): you whores
> HBK826 (10:47:26 PM): So why is angle in control
> HBK826 (10:47:35 PM): For 2 mins
> Spartanlaxxx (10:47:45 PM): cause......uhh.......
> Spartanlaxxx (10:47:51 PM): ............................................................yea
> HBK826 (10:47:52 PM): Of a 15 mins nmatch with no transition
> HBK826 (10:47:57 PM): Then joe lays there like he was beat to poop
> Spartanlaxxx (10:48:12 PM): srsly
> Spartanlaxxx (10:48:19 PM): a german and a sleeper and he acted dead
> HBK826 (10:48:20 PM): Oh wow
> HBK826 (10:48:26 PM): Joe hurt his knee
> Spartanlaxxx (10:48:31 PM): work the KNEE for the ANKLE LOCK
> HBK826 (10:48:31 PM): Oh noes
> Spartanlaxxx (10:48:54 PM): i always hated that
> HBK826 (10:48:55 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:49:01 PM): This is bad
> Spartanlaxxx (10:49:02 PM): you can elbow drop the ankle/foot ya know
> HBK826 (10:49:08 PM): I'm dying for the motyc thread in a half hr
> Spartanlaxxx (10:49:21 PM): people will be giving it **** im sure
> Spartanlaxxx (10:49:27 PM): and then im posting parts of this convo
> HBK826 (10:50:35 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:50:41 PM): Good idea
> Spartanlaxxx (10:52:55 PM): Nash of all people is telling Joe to work through a leg injury? That makes me 'lol'
> HBK826 (10:53:11 PM): Lol true
> HBK826 (10:53:37 PM): Wow, we are not selling this as a near tap, eh?
> Spartanlaxxx (10:53:50 PM): Of course not
> HBK826 (10:54:12 PM): Lol
> Spartanlaxxx (10:55:54 PM): Joe can't build enough speed? Yea, 'cause all of Joe's offense is speed based and that's what he's known for
> Spartanlaxxx (10:55:56 PM): Durrrrrrrrrrrr
> HBK826 (10:56:14 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:56:24 PM): Heyyy finisher sequence
> Spartanlaxxx (10:56:30 PM): .....has Angle always worn white sneakers?!
> HBK826 (10:57:08 PM): Yeah
> Spartanlaxxx (10:57:11 PM): and yea we've never seen that counter sequence before
> Spartanlaxxx (10:57:15 PM): really? wow I'm oblivious
> Spartanlaxxx (10:58:04 PM): WTF
> Spartanlaxxx (10:58:09 PM): L M A O
> HBK826 (10:58:12 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:58:20 PM): Island driver
> HBK826 (10:58:25 PM): Wow
> HBK826 (10:58:30 PM): Misawa is mad somewhere
> Spartanlaxxx (10:58:41 PM): At least they're getting the Island Driver over....I like when they give someone two main finishers. I'm not counting the choke
> Spartanlaxxx (10:58:45 PM): Yea it took a lead pipe too, but still
> Spartanlaxxx (10:58:55 PM): ....that's probs the only positive thing about the match; the Island Driver
> HBK826 (10:59:13 PM): Lol
> HBK826 (10:59:20 PM): Yeah
> Spartanlaxxx (10:59:33 PM): I actually wanna see Steiner/Joe though, a lot
> Spartanlaxxx (10:59:39 PM): I like their match in 06
> Spartanlaxxx (10:59:57 PM): ....its not gonna be Steiner/Joe is it?
> Spartanlaxxx (10:59:59 PM): Oh fuck me
> Spartanlaxxx (11:00:06 PM): I hope TNA dies a terrible death
> HBK826 (11:00:15 PM): Lol
> Spartanlaxxx (11:00:19 PM): You've gotta be kidding me
> Spartanlaxxx (11:00:50 PM): .....I was actually really looking foward to Steiner/Joe, and TNA snatches it away
> HBK826 (11:00:58 PM): If u wanted a 3 way just book a fucking 3 way
> Spartanlaxxx (11:01:14 PM): Seriously
> HBK826 (11:01:32 PM): No need for all this stupidity
> Spartanlaxxx (11:01:49 PM): You know what I literally couldn't stop laughing at? That women's match announced for Sacrifice
> Spartanlaxxx (11:01:56 PM): The battle royal ladder loser head shaved match
> Spartanlaxxx (11:02:18 PM): Like, honestly, I think they're picking three gimmicks out of a hat each week and creating a new match that incorporates each gimmick
> HBK826 (11:02:18 PM): Lol wtf
> HBK826 (11:02:24 PM): No idea
> Spartanlaxxx (11:02:34 PM): No one could honestly think it's a good idea....right?
> HBK826 (11:03:08 PM): Well
> HBK826 (11:03:15 PM): Russo can
> Spartanlaxxx (11:03:28 PM): .....but....he couldn't HONESTLY...could he?
> HBK826 (11:03:57 PM): Apparently so
> Spartanlaxxx (11:03:59 PM): Either he's sick in the head, or he's seeing how much retarded stuff he can create before people finally realize "Wait a second.....this makes no sense. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!" and fires him


----------



## McQueen

Go watch some Kawada you joker.


----------



## Spartanlax

Send me links to Kawada matches please.


----------



## Blasko

I told you, watch 6/3/94.


----------



## McQueen

Jay please beat him.


----------



## Blasko

Kawada kick him in the throat, that's a punishment AND a honor.


----------



## McQueen

I think Lax needs to be trapped in the Stretch Plum for 4 hours.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH said:


> This thread sucks.


4/26/08 - MOTYC Thread
ROH's comment - **** 1/4*


----------



## mateuspfc

Spartanlax said:


> Chris Sicoli (me, Spartanlaxxx) & Aaron Glazer (PulseGlazer, HBK826) Review Angle/Joe from iMPACT to show why it's not a MOTYC, as well as some other iMPACT thoughts.


Oh my god, it must suck to watch wrestling with you guys.


----------



## Horselover Fat

If you don't like Joe/Angle then you clearly aren't a fan of Workrate™.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

Little into saying Angle vs. Joe VI might of just had the best start of a match I've those two work since Turning Point of two years ago. All was fine until the final 5 minutes came in which lead to nothing but something that was totally lame. 

Solid match nevertheless. 

But I didn't find something like that close to being a "MOTY" match. I don't even know if it will be my favorite match of the week as far as I am concern. Since I haven't even watched Smackdown this week as of yet and it looked to have two pretty good matches set up. Which reminds me to go and watch that show in a minute.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

McQueen said:


> Go watch some Kawada you joker.


I got the essential Misawa vs. Kawada the other day.

14 discs documenting the feud from the Jumbo era to the epilogue stuff. 

I win.


----------



## Spartanlax

mateuspfc said:


> Oh my god, it must suck to watch wrestling with you guys.


I know, right? Cracking jokes and enjoying ourselves....phew, we're no fun!


----------



## Sephiroth

Spartanlax said:


> I know, right? Cracking jokes and enjoying ourselves....phew, we're no fun!


yeah, especially since one of you is a future superstar...

it must be a CARDINAL SIN to enjoy wrestling


----------



## McQueen

TheUnholyDragon said:


> I got the essential Misawa vs. Kawada the other day.
> 
> 14 discs documenting the feud from the Jumbo era to the epilogue stuff.
> 
> I win.


Yeah... you win. I still NEED to get that monster comp.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

A 14 disc Kawada/Misawa comp. is undoubtedly a massive win. 14 discs with anything to do with Kawada in general is a massive win.


----------



## KeepItFresh

AngleIsWrestling said:


> Little into saying Angle vs. Joe VI might of just had the best start of a match I've those two work since Turning Point of two years ago. All was fine until the final 5 minutes came in which lead to nothing but something that was totally lame.
> 
> Solid match nevertheless.
> 
> But I didn't find something like that close to being a "MOTY" match. I don't even know if it will be my favorite match of the week as far as I am concern. Since I haven't even watched Smackdown this week as of yet and it looked to have two pretty good matches set up. Which reminds me to go and watch that show in a minute.


I have Joe/Angle VI at ***1/4. Seriously SmackDown! had two matches that could be considered better than Joe/Angle in Punk/Edge and Batista/Undertaker. However neither of those are MOTYCs in my mind either.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Joe Angle as fast as I can because I'm sick of talking about these two sucking - Joe squashes him for literally like 10 minutes.. great start... Angle suddenly out of nowhere casually hits a German... a major move with no weardown, for his first move of the match. Piss poor choice. Joe then sells like he was worked over for an hour for no reason.Alright, next portion...

Joe blows out his knee. Unlike Lax, I'm fine with that. The heel's only working offense is a fluke Joe mistake. Joe needs to be built that way, fine. They go well for awhile, pulling the match up to good, though, really a figure four should be more than a transition move. Beyond that, very good selling and the match gets on track in a big way for 7 minutes or so before the finishing sequence... which is basically entirely overbooked nonsense. ***. If you want to give that four, you'd better have a marvelous reason shit like HBK vs. Cena and Go vs. Aries isn't 5.


----------



## Sephiroth

speaking of Go vs. Aries...

Sixth Year Anniversary
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ***** 1/4*

i will hopefully be adding more since i haven't finished the show yet


----------



## M.S.I.I.

PulseGlazer said:


> Joe Angle as fast as I can because I'm sick of talking about these two sucking - Joe squashes him for literally like 10 minutes.. great start... Angle suddenly out of nowhere casually hits a German... a major move with no weardown, for his first move of the match. Piss poor choice. Joe then sells like he was worked over for an hour for no reason.Alright, next portion...
> 
> Joe blows out his knee. Unlike Lax, I'm fine with that. The heel's only working offense is a fluke Joe mistake. Joe needs to be built that way, fine. They go well for awhile, pulling the match up to good, though, really a figure four should be more than a transition move. Beyond that, very good selling and the match gets on track in a big way for 7 minutes or so before the finishing sequence... which is basically entirely overbooked nonsense. ***. If you want to give that four, you'd better have a marvelous reason shit like HBK vs. Cena and Go vs. Aries isn't 5.


Do you enjoy wrestling, or enjoy criticizing it to death?


----------



## sirdilznik

:lmao at the hate in this thread. Thoroughly entertaining stuff. Keep it coming.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

M.S.I.I. said:


> Do you enjoy wrestling, or enjoy criticizing it to death?


He can't enjoy it yet be critical of it?

Moreover, not enjoying a match means he doesn't enjoy wrestling as a whole?

Did you even form a conscious thought before posting that?


----------



## McQueen

Also are you aware that you are in a thread about rating matches, and "rating" is another way of saying analyzing.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I'm saying, I have no problem with dude analyzing a match. But there's a point where it becomes...geeky, when you overanalyze, and take it too serious.


----------



## McQueen

Different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't take it personally.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Yes. Let's all watch sweaty half naked men grapple each other in a pretend competition. God help us if we get geeky about it though.


----------



## Spartanlax

Who said he was taking it too serious? I posted a convo where me and him were making jokes about the match and having fun. Evidence of him taking it not serious.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Damnit, all the good replies got taken...

1. Yes, I enjoy wrestling.

2. I prefer good wrestling, but can analyze it either way.

3. Bad wrestling often provides a much clearer focus into what makes the good so good.

4. Bad wrestling is often hilarious.

5. It's a thread about anaylsis. The levels are to personal opinion.

6. I really didn't get into that much detail about that match.

7. I am a total geek. Still have an awesome life, hobbies, friends, girlfriend, etc, so I'm not too weighed down by my geekiness.

8. Taking it seriously? I obviously found humor in it. What's that got to do with depth of analysis anyway?

9. I really wish you had read when we had this basic conversation several pages ago.

10. Every week after Impact from now on, I'll be doing a 10 thoughts column on Pulsewrestling, so check it out for the full range of wrestling taken as total b.s. to some good ol' fashioned, geeky analysis. If you think this entire post was an excuse to shill that, then boy, you sure know me.


----------



## Sephiroth

Hey guys, enough of that. The Aaron Glazer jokes are reserved for me, and me only.


----------



## Horselover Fat

I tend to focus more on the psychology and crisp transitions then whether the match is actually entertaining or not.


----------



## -Mystery-

M.S.I.I. said:


> I'm saying, I have no problem with dude analyzing a match. But there's a point where it becomes...geeky, when you overanalyze, and take it too serious.


Something tells me you're pissed because he didn't like Joe/Angle. I doubt you'd make a fuss if he did the same to a WWE match. Sorry but someone had to say it.


----------



## T-C

KIMBO said:


> I tend to focus more on the psychology and crisp transitions then whether the match is actually entertaining or not.


Yer gimmick's taken.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

-Mystery- said:


> Something tells me you're pissed because he didn't like Joe/Angle. I doubt you'd make a fuss if he did the same to a WWE match. Sorry but someone had to say it.


The same could be said vice versa for you, but I really could care less if it's TNA or WWE. Bad cop out.


----------



## PulseGlazer

M.S.I.I. said:


> The same could be said vice versa for you, but I really could care less if it's TNA or WWE. Bad cop out.


Amusingly, Mystery didn't say anything but agree with me when I analyzed HBK-Flair, so your vice versa doesn't work.

There are valid counters you can address if this one is a bad copout though.


----------



## Saint Dick

Orton vs HHH vs Cena vs JBL - ****-****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I wouldn't call it MOTY, but HBK/Batista last night was awesome to me. Not so much from an analytical stand point, but more like in a Foly/Taker HIAC kinda way where I just enjoyed the hell out of it. Probably like ***3/4 for rating, but I may have been overrating it on a live viewing. Top 5 favourite matches this year, but I wouldn't call it top 5 _best._

I'd go **** for both the World title matches as well from last night.


----------



## -Destiny-

I'd go ***1/4 for the Fatal 4 Way, ***3/4 for Undertaker/Edge and ***1/2 for Tista/HBK.


----------



## Victarion

Fatal 4 way and Edge/Taker were both ***3/4 -**** for me.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I need to watch them again to get a decent idea of what I'd rate it overall, since I probably overrated some of it live.


----------



## -Destiny-

When I watched live I had Taker/Edge at ****-****1/4 so that just shows how it's different when you watch it back. I just re-watched them this morning.


----------



## Saint Dick

I didn't think Taker/Edge was that good. ***1/2 for me.

Haven't seen HBK/Tista yet.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'll probably watch those 3 matches on the repeat on Sky Sports tonight, since my Reecordable DVD player fucked up and can't record shit!


----------



## -Destiny-

Honestly think if it has gone another 5 minutes it would have surpassed Mania.


----------



## KingKicks

I didn't really feel any of the matches were MOTYC's but they were still pretty good.

HBK vs. Batista - ***3/4
Taker vs. Edge - ***3/4
Orton vs. JBL vs. Cena vs. HHH - ***1/2

Also

*ROH Double Feature*

Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness and Go Shiozaki - ***3/4-****


----------



## Sephiroth

Changing my rating on one match and adding another from the same show.

Sixth Year Anniversary
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ******
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson - ***** 1/4*


----------



## KingCrash

Taker vs. Edge - ***1/2
Orton vs. JBL vs. Cena vs. HHH - ***1/2
HBK vs. Batista - ***3/4

And one match I just saw

IWA-MS 500th Show
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - I Quit Match - ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## Spartanlax

So...I'd kill for someone to upload the Jacobs/Whitmer I Quit match. Just throwin' that out there.


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

I'm sure its already been said and I know it isn't out on DVD but Age of The Fall vs The Murder City Machine Guns- Tag World 2008. Better than their MOTYC vs the Briscoes from last year IMO.


----------



## Claymore

Spartanlax said:


> So...I'd kill for someone to upload the Jacobs/Whitmer I Quit match. Just throwin' that out there.


I'm with you on that one Spartanlax...If any kind soul out there can upload that match, it would be fantastic...


----------



## Sephiroth

Spartanlax said:


> So...I'd kill for someone to upload the Jacobs/Whitmer I Quit match. Just throwin' that out there.


Kill Michael Cole and we'll talk...


----------



## PulseGlazer

So of matches that actually occurred this calendar year- looks like Whitmer-Jacobs I Quit or Dragon vs. Ki PWG are the MOTY so far, no?


----------



## Sephiroth

I doubt the ROHbots are gonna consider Whitmer vs. Jacobs a MOTY considering it's from a "rotten" promotion (PUNS~!) and it doesn't have Aries, Danielson, or the Brisoces in it. 

I don't know if you are counting Nigel vs. Aries from Rising Above, but that should be up there too. Plus don't count out the WM shows with the alleged "better than the first dg 6man" and "better than their Rising Above match" matches.

Besides, whenever 4/19 is released, you'll be drooling over MCMG vs. Briscoes and how "non-Briscoes" it is and how Shelley/Sabin try to tell a story but end up overshadowing the Brisoces in every way possible. That is assuming you analyze the shit out of it


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> I doubt the ROHbots are gonna consider Whitmer vs. Jacobs a MOTY considering it's from a "rotten" promotion (PUNS~!) and it doesn't have Aries, Danielson, or the Brisoces in it.
> 
> I don't know if you are counting Nigel vs. Aries from Rising Above, but that should be up there too. Plus don't count out the WM shows with the alleged "better than the first dg 6man" and "better than their Rising Above match" matches.
> 
> Besides, whenever 4/19 is released, you'll be drooling over MCMG vs. Briscoes and how "non-Briscoes" it is and how Shelley/Sabin try to tell a story but end up overshadowing the Brisoces in every way possible. That is assuming you analyze the shit out of it


1. I analyze the shit out of everything
2. I was only counting shit from this calendar year, i.e. not Rising Above
3. Only released shows count so far.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Is Briscoes/MCMG actually being pimped as better than their first? I'm not saying that I'm surprised as such, but after all the love last year's got by many people, I never expected it to get 'better' reviews this time around. 

Although until the actual DVDs are released there'll always be a lot of live reviews being classed as overrated.


----------



## KingKicks

PulseGlazer said:


> So of matches that actually occurred this calendar year- looks like Whitmer-Jacobs I Quit or Dragon vs. Ki PWG are the MOTY so far, no?


Not including Flair vs. HBK, then it's Danielson vs. McGuiness and Strong vs. Stevens for me.


----------



## Sephiroth

I don't think it was better, but it was better wrestled...if that makes sense. They didn't go 200% balls for the wall and hit every single spot they could think of. I do think some people on the ROH board said it was better tho...


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Sephiroth said:


> I don't think it was better, but it was better wrestled...if that makes sense. They didn't go 200% balls for the wall and hit every single spot they could think of. I do think some people on the ROH board said it was better tho...


If that's the case, then I'm thinking I'll enjoy it more this time. I liked last year's, but wasn't nearly as high on it as some.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Sephiroth said:


> Kill *Adamle* and we'll talk...


Fixed.


As for my match of the year, none. That will change soon though, once my latest DVD orders come in.


----------



## sirdilznik

My MOTY so far is easily Joe/Angle V at Lockdown. I haven't seen a lot of the other matches mentioned in this thread yet though.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Speed Muscle vs. Shingo and Hulk - ****

Okay, I know this is Jake's MOTY and I see why. The speed and impact that they tell their story in is absurd. Shingo is an unstoppable monster, Hulk is a step below. The first half of the match is basically Hulk trying to survive as Doi and Yoshino go to work. Yoshino is crisp and phenomenal. 

We go on for a bit and Shingo manages to kill Doi with the DVD on the apron. He then has a good control on Yoshino with and without BxB, before Hulk is smashed again. We go on and Shingo takes an absurd amount of Doi and Yoshino's offense, but won't stay down. I get that he's a monster, but holy shit is enough enough and this is the match's big flaw. 

Yoshino and BxB spend the rest of the match trying to eliminate each other, with basically an alpha male showdown between Doi and Shingo. Shingo escapes a sick amount of shit again, Doi gets out of a good bit, but even his fighting spirit is enough as a final Last Falconry finishes.

If Shingo had taken less overkill of a beating, it'd be my MOTY too.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Nice write up, Pulse. I probably won't even view that match, because I have no interest in Dragon Gate.

Well... Since this thread decided to die.

MOTY List:

1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WWE WrestleMania 24 *****3/4*
2. Jimmy Jacobs v.s B.J. Whitmer- IWA-MS The 500th Show: I Quit Match *****1/2-****3/4*
3. Bryan Danielson v.s Nigel McGuiness- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show: ROH Title Match *****1/2*
4. The Undertaker v.s Edge- WWE Wrestlemania 24: WHC Title Match *****1/4*
5. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuinness- ROH Without Remorse: ROH Title Match *****1/4*
6. Go Shiozaki v.s Austin Aries- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show *****1/4*
7. Raw Elimination Chamber- WWE No Way Out *****1/4*
8. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura- NOAH Global Tag League 04/12/08 *****1/4*
9. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Aganist All Odds: TNA Title Match *****-****1/4*
10. Triple H v.s JBL v.s John Cena v.s Randy Orton- WWE Backlash: Fatal 4 Way for the WWE Title *****-****1/4*
11. Samoa Joe v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Lockdown: Steel Cage Match for the TNA Title ******
12. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- ROH Breakout ****
13. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Final Resolution: TNA Title Match ******
14. Edge v.s The Undertaker- WWE Backlash: WHC Title Match ******
15. Eddie Kingston v.s 2 Cold Scorpio- IWA-MS The 500th Show: IWA-MS Title Match ******


----------



## watts63

*NJPW 4/13/08*
Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto ****


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'll have to watch that Tanaka/Koji match, seeing as how I'm a huge mark for Kanemoto.

And I agree with the **** rating for Shingo/Hulk v Speed Muscle. Enjoyed the hell out of it, but it just seemed a bit overkill-y in the end.


----------



## - Styles -

B.J. Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs "I Quit" match

Wow what a great old school type brawl. The Cane shots on Jacobs throughout the match were absolutely brutal. My favorite part by far though was the ending sequence with The spike showdown. My god...

*****1/4 - ****1/2*

Here my 5 for the year so far. I haven't watched too much indy stuff so I'm gonna have to check out a bunch of stuff. 

1. Joe/Angle - Lockdown - *****1/2*

2. Flair/Hbk - WM24 - *****1/2*

3. Jacobs/Whitmer I quit - IWA - *****1/4 - ****1/2*

3. Angle/Christian Cage - Against All Odds - ***** 1/4*

4. Angle/Christian Cage - Final Resolution - ***** - ****1/4*

5. Styles/Tanahashi NJPW - ******


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'll go ahead with my top 5 so far, having seen no ROH, however.

#1 - HBK v Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 24
#2 - Hiroshi Tanahashi v Taiyo Kea - Champions Carnival, can't remember the date right now.
#3 - Shingo/BxB Hulk v Speed Muscle - Dragon Gate 1/21 (I think)
#4 - The Undertaker v Edge - Wrestlemania 24
#5 - Randy Orton v John Cena - No Way Out (some people may think this is insane, but I thought it was excellent. Simple story, told damn near perfectly)


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE MOTYCs
1. Flair/HBK - WM24
2. Edge/Taker - WM24
3. MITB IV - WM24
4. Orton/HHH/Cena/JBL - Backlash
5. Raw's EC - No Way Out


----------



## Taroostyles

I didn't even think Cena/Orton was ***, different strokes I guess. 

I'm not sure about top 5, but Joe/Angle and AJ/Tana would definitely be the top 2 for me so far.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I actually need to see AJ/Tanahashi. Tanahashi was my favourite wrestler on the planet before he got injured.

Yeah, I could see a lot of people disagreeing with Orton/Cena, but like you said, different strokes I guess. I just though Orton trying everything he could to take the cheap way out, only for Cena to prevent it every time, until Orton pretty much just says "Fuck it!" and slaps the ref' was one of my favourite endings to any match this year. Even though it may have seemed like a copout to most.


----------



## Taroostyles

^I see what you mean, it did tell a good story but I just didn't feel like the match itself was really anything special.

Plus, I thought the build up was so ridiculous. Cena says he came back to wrestle for the title at WM and then uses his chance at NWO? It just seemed kinda predictable for the 3 way to be setup.

For me personally, the WWE has had atleast probably 15 matches this year that were better. But I can see how some people might really love the match, so it's a just matter of opinion.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'll agree with the build-up to it, using his Royal Rumble shot for No Way Out kinda took away from the importance of winnig the actual Rumble itself. It was something different though, I guess.

It was obvious they were going for a 3-way at 'Mania though.

I doubt this will stay so high up on my list come the end of the year though, after I see some ROH, which I'll drop an order on when the WM shows are out, as well as re-watching most of the other WWE stuff.


----------



## T-C

Orton/Cena was unbelievably fun I thought. Orton really cemented himself as a top guy and the uber heel in the US in it, and while not being at his best, Cena was still pretty great. Really fun, but I doubt it will be making any LISTS~! at the end of the year.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

T-C said:


> Orton/Cena was ubeleievably fun I thought. Orton really cemented himself as a top guy and the uber heel in the US in it, and while not being at his best, Cena was still pretty great. Really fun, but I doubt it will be making any LISTS~! at the end of the year.


Pretty much, yeah. This was the match that placed Orton at the top of the pile for heels in my book too.


----------



## Burning Sword

I liked that match as well. Orton slapping the ref in the face was pretty funny.


----------



## El Conquistador

I've got a trio in which each individual match has the same equal chance to receive my MOTY vote this year. Due to the difficulty of finding a scale for Flair/HBK and not being able to fully rate it yet, it wouldn't be all that fair to rate the others. So, I'll just do it like this right now:

Brawl of the Year: BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - I Quit Match (500th Show; IWA-MS)
Best Wrestled Match of the Year: AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW)
Favorite Match of the Year: Flair vs. Michaels (Wrestlemania; WWE)


----------



## watts63

*IWA-MS 500th Show*
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

*IWA-MS 500th Show*
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/4-1/2

It'd be a definite 4+1/2 if they hadn't done the false finish in the middle - not a fan of restarting matches in general
I absolutely *loved* the guillotine-northern lights spot!
Kendo stick shots and spikes were brutal and Meltzer would have a field day refusing to rate this one


----------



## watts63

*Kensuke Office 3/28/08*
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Magnitude Kishiwada ****-****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Awesome, I never even knew that happened. Nakajima's fuckin' fantastic so that's another match I'll need to check out. I'm downloading the Kanemoto/Tanaka match you rated earlier right now.


----------



## -Destiny-

Randy Orton vs. John Cena NWO - ***3/4


----------



## PulseGlazer

Shingo and BxB vs. KENTA and Ishimori - ****

Okay, KENTA and Ishimori never went out of their way to act like they were in any reaaal danger here, but that's made up for from the Awesome sequences they bust out. Ishimori and BxB are fun together, but Hulk trying to stand up to KENTA is what makes this gold. I really wanted more huge alpha male showdowns with KENTA and Shingo, but KENTA sort of made him his bitch, which was dissapointing.


----------



## Blasko

KENTA can kick DG back to their even more spotty days.


----------



## SecondCity

Sephiroth said:


> Changing my rating on one match and adding another from the same show.
> 
> Sixth Year Anniversary
> Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ******
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson - ***** 1/4*


For me, I'd bump up each rating by 1/4.

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - **** 1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson: **** 1/2


----------



## peep4life

Styles/Tanahashi ****
Great match, fun to see AJ get a chance to let go and shine. First I've seen of Tanahashi and his cool ass hair and I was impressed. Fun, fun match.


----------



## Caponex75

I, for the record, would like to say Aries/Stevens is better then the overrated Black/Danielson match. Fire away


----------



## Sephiroth

I haven't seen Stevens vs. Aries, but....I hate you regardless.


----------



## dele

I'm gonna change gears and a candidate for deathmatch of the year (rating deathmatches compared to other matches is unfair, as a lot of people can and will shit on the deathmatch):

MASADA vs Ryuji Ito: No ropes, barbed wire, concrete brick, fire boards deathmatch 1/7 in BJW

As much as I dislike Ito, MASADA worked his ass off in the match and helped pull off a really great, emotional, and violent match.
I'd give it **** 3/8. Better than 4 and a quarter but not quite 4 and a half.


----------



## Blasko

dele3344 said:


> I'm gonna change gears and a candidate for deathmatch of the year (rating deathmatches compared to other matches is unfair, as a lot of people can and will shit on the deathmatch):
> 
> MASADA vs Ryuji Ito: No ropes, barbed wire, concrete brick, fire boards deathmatch 1/7 in BJW
> 
> As much as I dislike Ito, MASADA worked his ass off in the match and helped pull off a really great, emotional, and violent match.
> I'd give it **** 3/8. Better than 4 and a quarter but not quite 4 and a half.


 Disagreed. I gave it **** stars tops. 

Or even *** 3/4.


----------



## dele

^^^ What, in your opinion, is the DM of the year right now?

Edit: I'm asking because I really haven't seen a better deathmatch from BJW as of yet, and I don't really pay much attention to US or German deathmatches.


----------



## Y²

Saw BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs I Quit today, was very impressed. Not sure yet if its MoTYC worthy but very good none the less.


----------



## Sephiroth

dele3344 said:


> ^^^ What, in your opinion, is the DM of the year right now?
> 
> Edit: I'm asking because I really haven't seen a better deathmatch from BJW as of yet, and I don't really pay much attention to US or German deathmatches.


I was live for Adam Pearce vs. Delirious (Dog Collar Match). That is the best deathmatch ever since you'll wish you were dead after watching it. That count?


----------



## Maxx Hero

For death match I would say the I Quit or from the hype I have heard their barbed wire match.

The I quit was fairly good, gonna watch it again tonight to rate.

Was the Masada of BJW the same that worked in the Carnage Crew?


----------



## McQueen

Yeah same guy, (at least i'm pretty sure been a while since I've dusted off my '04 ROH)


----------



## dele

Yeah Masada's the same guy from the CC




Ytt said:


> Saw BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs I Quit today, was very impressed. Not sure yet if its MoTYC worthy but very good none the less.


I liked it, I personally gave it ***3/4



Sephiroth said:


> I was live for Adam Pearce vs. Delirious (Dog Collar Match). That is the best deathmatch ever since you'll wish you were dead after watching it. That count?


I guess. "Deathmatch" can be a very loose term.


----------



## Blasko

I gave the I Quit **** 1/4. 

I don't think of it as a death match, but the NRBW is a different story. waiting for that to be posted.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Caponex75 said:


> I, for the record, would like to say Aries/Stevens is better then the overrated Black/Danielson match. Fire away


So, you're right. It's not even really a question. Tyler vs. Dragon was more of a surprise for a crowd that hasn't gotten a great match in awhile, but Aries vs. Stevens is better.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> So, you're right. It's not even really a question. Tyler vs. Dragon was more of a surprise for a crowd that hasn't gotten a great match in awhile, but Aries vs. Stevens is better.


BOO URNS. (I really need to see Aries/Stevens now)


----------



## -Mystery-

*Edge vs. Undertaker - Backlash*

Taker's road to Backlash was a tough one. He had to endure matches with Kane, Batista, and Festus while Edge's road to Backlash was a mild one with his toughest match coming against Punk the Smackdown prior to Backlash. These mild and tough roads played a significant role in the match. Taker worked over Edge's arm early in the match which I thought was brilliant because it played off Punk working over Edge's arm extensively on Smackdown. I was quite surprised Cole nor Foley made note of this but whatever. Then, they played off the tough road Taker has had since Mania by having Edge extensively work over Taker's back. I felt that Taker sold the back exceptionally well for a guy whose selling is usually spotty at times. The selling Taker displayed in this match would've been useful in their Mania. Anyways, another thing great done in this match was they played off Edge's ability to counter Taker's big moves greatly. I was glad they didn't just forget about that because it would've been silly having Edge "forgetting" how to counter Taker's big moves just a month removed from Mania. Finally, the run ins were done well too. Again, it's good to see they haven't strayed away from Edge being the "ultimate opportunist". I've noticed that some people haven't enjoyed this match as much as I did but that's alright. I thought the storytelling and psychology in the match were great and there was just a few subtle things which I thought were done well too. Not nearly as good as their Mania match but still a damn good match. Overall ****


----------



## Caponex75

*PWG: Pearl Harba - Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero 2/3 Falls*

This match completey took me off guard. I was expecting a okay match but damn, this shit was pretty excellent. If I told you these two were a tag team then your ass probably wouldn't believe it because they really did not show it. They really showed that they did not like each other at all and that is something you may not see to much. Goodness, I never thought I would be the one to post it but Romero has been involved in a one-on-one MOTYC. If Shima/Dragon can get love then this one should to for showing twice as much as intensity. Short as hell match tho and main problem was a sorta botched DDT but nothing really to bitch about. If you want a link then pm me because I'm gonna upload this later.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Mystery, I'm with ya on 'Taker/Edge. I thought their 'Mania match was a bit better, but I really dug the Backlash effort. I have it at **** too, and you pretty much summed up my thoughts on it better than I could. So, thanks, I guess .


----------



## -Mystery-

Another thing I really dug with Taker/Edge was the match didn't seemed rushed or forced in the attempt to top their Mania match. They seemed content with the match not being as good and not trying to force things to top such an awesome match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

That's actually something I LOVED about it. I like matches where they have that sort of intangible and this match had that, I feel.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I just rewatched the I Quit match. I wouldn't list this as an I Quit match. For me their was some cool stuff in here, such as the kendo shots mixed withe the figure four. I loved Jimmy's inovation, such as the Spike Dudley style of attack while still duct taped to the ropes. Beyond the rare situations where something good was happening this watch really lagged in many places. I would have prefered more wrestling mixed with weapons rather than reliance on weapons. I feel that is the key to success in these matches. A good example is Jimmy Rave against Tony Mamaluke in NWA: Wildside (Hardcore Hell 2002/3?). The only weapon I remember them using was one chair. The majority of the match was Jimmy being a little bitch and escaping everything Tony tried to do to him. The match was so good that I didn't even care about the fact that the ending was someone throwing in the towel rather that one of them quiting. Man, I need to watch and rate that match. I recorded it off of a late night best of Wildside a few years ago.

In the end I hope the Barbed Wire Match was better, as I know what these two can do in hardcore matches.

Also, I will never say bullshit without making it a 'Bullshit Pal!" in honor of Fannin.


Edit-Forgot my rating-I gave it a ***1/4-***1/2.


----------



## -Mystery-

*Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. JBL - Backlash*

I felt the build to this match was slightly lackluster but the match really delivered. The main thing I liked about the match was the two different types of matches we saw. When the match was a four way, the four men had a quick pace going on similar to the Mania triple threat and they kept at this pace perfectly. The frantic pace also brought the crowd alive which was important to do earlier in the match. Then, when it came down to Orton and Triple H, they brought the pace down which I thought was worked very well because there was no need to keep up the frantic pace and try to eliminate opponents quickly because it was down to just two. They also brought the crowd down which many would look at as a positive but they made it work. They had the crowd hot in the beginning, brought them down in the middle, then brought them back up at the end. You really can't ask for better crowd control than that. Also, I was glad that Triple H and Orton didn't brawl extensively on the outside because we had just seen them brawling several months ago so it was more fresh to see them just wrestle. One thing I thought the match could've benefited from was more back work by Orton. Triple H sold the back very well (some could say he sold a bit too much based on how much work Orton had done). But, other than that the match was all around very good. I'd put it as an overall low end MOTYC but somewhere near the top 5 as far as WWE MOTYCs are concerned. Overall ****


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> *Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. JBL - Backlash*
> 
> I felt the build to this match was slightly lackluster but the match really delivered. The main thing I liked about the match was the two different types of matches we saw. When the match was a four way, the four men had a quick pace going on similar to the Mania triple threat and they kept at this pace perfectly. The frantic pace also brought the crowd alive which was important to do earlier in the match. Then, when it came down to Orton and Triple H, they brought the pace down which I thought was worked very well because there was no need to keep up the frantic pace and try to eliminate opponents quickly because it was down to just two. They also brought the crowd down which many would look at as a positive but they made it work. They had the crowd hot in the beginning, brought them down in the middle, then brought them back up at the end. You really can't ask for better crowd control than that. Also, I was glad that Triple H and Orton didn't brawl extensively on the outside because we had just seen them brawling several months ago so it was more fresh to see them just wrestle. One thing I thought the match could've benefited from was more back work by Orton. Triple H sold the back very well (some could say he sold a bit too much based on how much work Orton had done). But, other than that the match was all around very good. I'd put it as an overall low end MOTYC but somewhere near the top 5 as far as WWE MOTYCs are concerned. Overall ****


I felt pretty much the same way. On another note, did you see that wonderful thread about you and Cody Lane in the rants section? Its good times


----------



## single_tvfanatic

Triple H vs. Ric Flair Career Threatening Match
From the New Year's Raw

Fatal Four Way Elimination Match for the WWE Championship
Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. JBL
Could possibly be one of my favourite matches of wwe 2008.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

*Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer No Rope Barbed Wire ****1/4*

This match was something else, and definately one of the most violent matches I have ever seen, the things they did were jaw dropping at points, I have not yet watched it again since it is pretty lengthy. Once I watch it again I could come up with a better review, but if you have a chance, watch this!


----------



## Maxx Hero

I haven't heard much talk on here about this but I am gonna nominate *Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Takashi Suguira and Naomichi Marufuji *(3.2.08) for match or the year. I give it a ****1/4-****1/2. My review would be better, but I have watched KENTA vs. Marufuji between me watching this and me going online, and thus I don't remember everything. But yes, this is the match with the really cool finish everyone has seen on YouTube.

What I can say is that the Briscoes need to wrestle in ROH more like they do in NOAH. They have completely different movesets and double teams. These moves are better for the flow of matches and don't make the opponents look like shit. Besides that, they actually stay in the ring longer than 30 seconds before tagging out. While fast tags are part of tag team psychology, the Briscoes do this over much, killing the flows of their matches.

This match fixed every problem I have with the Briscoes more recent ROH stuff. Their was a good pace, and both teams had balenced amounts of offense.

So ya, good stuff, and in my view the best match of the year so far, though I need to see Danielson against McGuinness and Mania still.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2/08*
Takashi Suguira & Naomichi Marufuji vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## Maxx Hero

Thank goodness you rated it the same as me, as I haven't watched much puro before and thus I was worried that my rating would be way off.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Just watched Jacobs vs. Whitmer Barb Wire match from IWA. As a match, I think I'd have it around four or five in their series - I definately preferred the first one from Mania Weekend 2006, the Cage match, and the I Quit match, and maybe the UK match, however, this is by far the most gruesome they've had yet, and it is still pretty great, so if that sounds like it appeals to you, be sure to check it out. Certainly will end up top 10 for non-ROH indies in the US. Think I'd give it a fair ****.


----------



## watts63

*IWA-MS April Bloodshowers '08*
Jimmy Jacobs vs, BJ Whitmer ****

Those two are f'n great.


----------



## Blasko

Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mistuharu Misawa, Fire Pro Returns, GHC title, Tokyo Dome 5/3/08. 

Instant ****** stars. 

The story goes as fallowed. Misawa is the current GHC Heavyweight champion and has been on a ROLL since he first won the title. But...enters Kawada. 

Kawada instantly gets a title shot, both players (me and my friend) bring our A fucking game for this single match. Misawa is defending not only his title, but his company's honor in this match. Kawada is still using the basic formula as in every of the Misawa/Kawada matches, bustes it all out and can't put Misawa away. Misawa goes to finish this early, hitting the Tiger Driver 91....FOR A ONE COUNT! IT'S FUCKING ON. 

Both of us went back and forth, the single strike led to a swing of momentum, like a real Kawada/Misawa match. Kawada is OUT on his feet, Misawa starts planting roaring elbows, tiger drivers and even a tiger suplex....My friend has me up, he taunts and...

*SURPRISE GANSO BOMB! 1, 2, 3!*

40.Fucking.minutesEpic.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mistuharu Misawa, Fire Pro Returns, GHC title, Tokyo Dome 5/3/08.
> 
> Instant ****** stars.
> 
> The story goes as fallowed. Misawa is the current GHC Heavyweight champion and has been on a ROLL since he first won the title. But...enters Kawada.
> 
> Kawada instantly gets a title shot, both players (me and my friend) bring our A fucking game for this single match. Misawa is defending not only his title, but his company's honor in this match. Kawada is still using the basic formula as in every of the Misawa/Kawada matches, bustes it all out and can't put Misawa away. Misawa goes to finish this early, hitting the Tiger Driver 91....FOR A ONE COUNT! IT'S FUCKING ON.
> 
> Both of us went back and forth, the single strike led to a swing of momentum, like a real Kawada/Misawa match. Kawada is OUT on his feet, Misawa starts planting roaring elbows, tiger drivers and even a tiger suplex....My friend has me up, he taunts and...
> 
> *SURPRISE GANSO BOMB! 1, 2, 3!*
> 
> 40.Fucking.minutesEpic.


Whenever the rematch goes down, get a camera, record, and upload it .


----------



## Blasko

Sephiroth said:


> Whenever the rematch goes down, get a camera, record, and upload it .


 Right now, Kobashi is the GHC champ and took on Joe and Danielson during an American tour...

vs Joe- *** 1/4
Vs Danielson- **** 1/4. 

I have no life.


----------



## dele

Kind of a different way to go, but I wanna mention it:

MASADA, Mad Man Pondo, and Necro vs Mammoth Sasaki, GENTARO, and Koshino

Match itself: ***1/4

Promos before and after the match, crowd reaction, and just plain awesomeness (including Pondo asking Koshino "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?!?!) makes it:
***1/2 in my book.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I never thought of trying to rate Fire Pro Matches. My best match would be a match to crown my first eight man tag champs as Muscle Outlaws (Yoshino and Doi) teamed with New Hazard (Shingo and BxB Hulk) to form Muscle Hazard (as played by me) in a desperate attempt to stop the domination of Typhoon (CIMA, Dragon Kid, Naruki Doi, and Susumu Yokosuka). 

Fast paced action for the first 25 minutes, very even. Then out of no where Yokosuka busts out tons of big moves, and in five minutes has Yoshino and Hulk out. After the pinfall a brawl ensues between the last two from Muscle Hazard and all of Typhoon. Out of nowhere in this mess in which I can't tell what's going a bell rings. Turns out that as Shingo I took out Dragon Kid. For the nest ten minutes then Shingo one by one forced every member of theirs to tap. It was epic when Shingo ducked a clothsline from their last man Yokosuka, tossed him up in the air with a TKO looking move, and then finnally got victory with some submission I can't think of the name of. 

Fun times...If only they could make an American Fire Pro with all the indys. Sure FPR has 500 create slots but the creator is not very good imo.


----------



## Blasko

Kobashi vs. Bryan Danielson. 

Story- Kobashi has agreed to do a total of 3 matches in America. He picks Joe, Danielson and Stan Hansen. surprisingly, Both Joe and Hansen weren't as good as I'd thought. But this match was the best in the American 3 series. 

Actual match- Danielson(me) begins to take Kobashi(friend) down, knowing that Kobashi would just murder me if I didn't do otherwise. Danielson kept going for quick pins and getting out of the ring whenever Kobashi had the upper hand. 7 minutes in, Danielson has a groggy Kobashi up, AmDrag runs to the ropes....ONLY TO HAVE HIS HEAD TAKEN OFF VIA LARIAT~!

After that, Kobashi just goes INSANE with head drops, chops and even THE ORANGE CRUSH~! 2.9~! Kobashi is incontrol...SMALL PACKAGE! 2 COUNT! Both men up, REGAL PLEX BY DANIELSON! 2! ANOTHER REGAL PLEX! 2.9! MARK.ING.OUT.

Dragon clls for the finish, CATTLE MUTULATION BY DRAGON~! Only to have a rope break! Danielson is up but excausted, Kobashi is up....BURNING LARIAT! 1! 2! 3!

**** 1/2


----------



## KingKicks

Maxx Hero said:


> I never thought of trying to rate Fire Pro Matches. My best match would be a match to crown my first eight man tag champs as Muscle Outlaws (Yoshino and Doi) teamed with New Hazard (Shingo and BxB Hulk) to form Muscle Hazard (as played by me) in a desperate attempt to stop the domination of Typhoon (CIMA, Dragon Kid, Naruki Doi, and Susumu Yokosuka).
> 
> Fast paced action for the first 25 minutes, very even. Then out of no where Yokosuka busts out tons of big moves, and in five minutes has Yoshino and Hulk out. After the pinfall a brawl ensues between the last two from Muscle Hazard and all of Typhoon. Out of nowhere in this mess in which I can't tell what's going a bell rings. Turns out that as Shingo I took out Dragon Kid. For the nest ten minutes then Shingo one by one forced every member of theirs to tap. It was epic when Shingo ducked a clothsline from their last man Yokosuka, tossed him up in the air with a TKO looking move, and then finnally got victory with some submission I can't think of the name of.
> 
> Fun times...If only they could make an American Fire Pro with all the indys. Sure FPR has 500 create slots but the creator is not very good imo.


If you have a maxdrive to transfer saves then you can get any wrestler you want onto FPR.

On mine i've got every WWE, TNA and Indy wrestler you could think of.


----------



## watts63

*PWG iDia de los Dangerous!*
Human Tornado vs. Necro Butcher ****


----------



## KeepItFresh

NJPW 4/13/08: NJPW v.s Zero1-Max, World Heavyweight Title Match- Masato Tanaka (c) v.s Koji Kanemoto ****1/2

This match was just awesome from the opening bell as each were trying to prove to the other that their promotion was superior. It started out with Kanemoto just kicking the shit Tanaka at every chance he could possibly get. They preceded to go outside the ring and brawl in the crowd where Tanaka could gain control in his own environment only to be bested by Kanemoto at this.

They got back to the ring and Kanemoto just started kicking the shit Tanaka again. Tanaka had comeback bursts every now that each lasting a little longer than the last, but only to be floored back to the mat by Kanemoto. 

Tanaka has had enough of this and sets up a table on the outside to put Kanemoto through, but this backfires as well and he gets sent through it himself. 

As they get back in the ring Kanemoto and Tanaka trade high impact moves. Kanemoto comes out on top in most cases. At one point he rolls right into an ankle lock looking to capture the victory, but it just isn't enough as Tanaka gets to the ropes. After more high impact moves are delivered by both parties Kanemoto locks in the ankle lock AGAIN this time surely for the win, right? NO! Even I thought Tanaka was going to tap out and I knew the results before hand. It was just freakin' epic! 

Then after all this these two men get up and precede to thrown forarms at eachother. Tanaka comes out on the winning end, but not quite so fast a spinning back fist and of course a kick by Kanemoto send Tanaka back into the ropes who comes roaring back with a forarm to finally put Kanemoto away... However it's still not enough to end this match. They get back and Kanemoto is still fighting, but after another knockdown Tanaka comes flying at Kanemoto with another forarm. Tanaka makes the cover! NO! Kanemoto is able to kickout! What?! Tanaka flies against the ropes one more time with another forarm and this time it's over. 

Thats what a call a damn match.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Ya I don't have a max drive, don't know how or where to get one, and pry don't have the money for it. I am working on making hundreds from the US but it is slow work.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

watts63 said:


> *PWG iDia de los Dangerous!*
> Human Tornado vs. Necro Butcher ****


Really? I thought it was fun but not ****
The main event was better imo, it was ****


----------



## watts63

SuperDuperDragon said:


> Really? I thought it was fun but not ****
> The main event was better imo, it was ****


Like you said...really? It was a good match but definetly not ****, especially the botch ending.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

True, I forgot about that it was pretty nasty.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Definitely interested in Kanemoto/Tanaka after you gave it ****1/2, KIF. I downloaded it last week, but just haven't got around to watching it yet. I thought I'd maybe be the only one that would really love it since I seem to be the biggest Kanemoto mark around, but I guess I'm not alone.

I only read the first couple paragraphs of your review though, since I wasn't sure if you mentined the outcome (although I'm pretty sure who's winning anyway), but I'll be back with my thoughts when I get to watching it myself (which will now be sooner rather than later).


----------



## Burning Sword

*AJPW Champion's Carnival 4/8/08*

Hiroshi Tanhashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada- ****

Right on par with the Muto match and maybe even better. I simply love Tana acting like a cocky prick and then Kawada coming back to slap the shit out of him. Great stuff.


----------



## Blasko

Burning Sword said:


> *AJPW Champion's Carnival 4/8/08*
> 
> Hiroshi Tanhashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada- ****
> 
> Right on par with the Muto match and maybe even better. I simply love Tana acting like a cocky prick and then Kawada coming back to slap the shit out of him. Great stuff.


 ...

Must watch. :no:


----------



## dele

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> ...
> 
> Must watch. :no:


Amen :no:


----------



## Burning Sword

You two must be ashamed for yourselves :no:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*BJ Whitmer v Jimmy Jacobs, "I Quit" match - IWA:MS*

So, I've never really been a fan of these 2 together in the ring, to be honest, and this wasn't really all that different. I've always felt they had *good* matches, don't get me wrong, but I never put any of them on the *great* level. In saying that, despite all the hype this seemed to get, I wasn't disappointed because I was actually expecting to like it _less_ than I did!

One thing I did really like was the simplicity of it for the most part. They got the brutality of it all over with only really a kendo stick, whereas too often guys need flaming tables with landmines and freakin' machine guns (slight exaggeration, maybe) to get the brutality point across.

BJ going after Jimmy's knee, which he injured in their cage match, was another part of the psychology I enjoyed. And the spike spots were cool as fuck at times too (especially for the finish). 

I wouldn't put this on any LISTS~ come the end of the year, but it was certainly a good match that I'd have no complaints about someone else having as their MOTY. ******


----------



## Kapone89

*All Japan Pro Wrestling.*
*01/28/86 Tsuruta & Tenryu Vs. Choshu & Yatsu ****1/4-****1/2*


----------



## McQueen

Um.... as much as I love that match as it is one of my favorites it doesn't belong in this thread.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Wait, when did it turn 1986? Joke, great match btw. If a little 22 years too late .


----------



## Kapone89

Shit. my bad. i must have been a little bit out of it when i posted that


----------



## KingKicks

BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS 500th Show - ******

Looking forward to the NRBW match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

So the NRBW match came before the "I Quit"? I wasn't sure of the order of the two. Although NRBW does sound like more of a brutal blow-off to the feud, so common sense should probably have answered my first question...


----------



## stinger-splash

My Top 5 matches in 2008 so far:

HBK vs Flair (WM XXIV) *****
Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe (LD) **** 1/4 - ****1/2
Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage (AAO)**** 1/4 - ****1/2
Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage (FR) ****1/4
Edge vs Undertaker (WM XXIV) ****1/4


----------



## -Mystery-

Andy3000 said:


> So the NRBW match came before the "I Quit"? I wasn't sure of the order of the two. Although NRBW does sound like more of a brutal blow-off to the feud, so common sense should probably have answered my first question...


NRBW came after the I Quit match. Which reminds me, I watched the NRBW and I'm giving it ****1/2. Best Jacobs/Whitmer match minus SOH II.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Guess I'll need to watch that one as well then. I'm usually with you on your ratings, Mystery, so I'm looking forward to that match for sure.


----------



## -Mystery-

*AJPW Champion's Carnival*
Hiroshi Tanhashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - **** - ****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

^^Looking forward to that one when I get around to it.

Just watched this though, and I doubt even Tanahashi/Kawada will top it:

*BJW Tag Team Titles Match: Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki v Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto (1/2/08)*

Yeah, so this was fucking awesome! Sekimoto and Y.Sasaki are a fantastic powerhouse team, and T.Sasaki and Miyamoto are so good at being the tough challenger and underdog babyface respectively. Miyamoto is probably one of the most over babyfaces on the planet right now, and the last 6 or 7 minutes of this have the crowd going INSANE for the guy, constantly chanting his name and getting red hot for every near fall.

The powerhouses pretty much try to get T.Sasaki out of the way so they can kill the more inexperienced (and easier to throw around the fucking place) Miyamoto, which is really a thing of beauty in it's own right. Sekimoto may be my favourite power guy in wrestling at the moment as well, and he was freakin' awesome in this one, pulling dead lift Germans and dead lift fucking POWERBOMBS out like nobody's business in an attempt to put down (seemingly literally at times) Miyamoto. One great spot was when Miyamoto hits a perfect moonsault on Y.Sasaki, and looks like he's got it won, before Sekimoto lifts him up from the cover and just drops him with a German. All in one motion. Another is when Miyamoto is standing on the apron (I think he's intending to dive onto Y.Sasaki at this point, although I'm not certain) and Sekimoto reaches over the top rope, lifts him back into the ring and plants him with another sick German. Again, all in one motion, without Miyamoto's feet touching the ground.

Sekimoto's not just all about killing the other guys though because he takes some great offence from Miyamoto and T.Sasaki in return (both Sasakis are really good in this match, by the way, but Sekimoto and Miyamoto are absolute stars, just to explain why I'm showing all the love to those 2 guys). He takes a SICK ring post bump where he charges at Miyamoto (like, REALLY charges) from one corner to the other, and just launches himself shoulder first into the post. It looked so realistic and nasty and beautiful all at the same time.

Sekimoto FINALLY manages to keep Miyamoto down after hitting a shit load of Germans and one SICK AS FUCK Lariat, picking up the win for the powerhouses after 23 minutes of awesomeness, keeping the tag titles in the process.

Unbelievable match, and one that comes very close to being my MOTY so far, just behind HBK/Flair. Watch this now (it's on dailymotion in 2 parts)! *****1/2*


----------



## Blasko

Takashi Sasaki is the most under rated thing going as of now. srsly, that guy is borderline amazing.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Oh Sasaki's fantastic, no doubt, but he was really just along for the ride in this one. Not knocking the guy whatsoever, it was just that Sekimoto and Miyamoto were so awesome in it that it was damn near impossible for anyone else to shine. Although the story wouldn't have worked as well as it did without him as I don't feel anybody else in Big Japan could have played the role as well as he did, even if he wasn't standing out, as such.


----------



## Blasko

BJW is really pushing Miyamoto after his fantastic Trial matches. The guy BLEEDS fighting spirit. I'd think naturally he's going to be the next person to win the DM title of Shadow WX, or whoever will be the champ at the time, by the end of the year. 

....Still waiting for the Epic Jun Kasai push. :side:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah, I can definitely see him winning the DM strap sooner rather than later. I agree with the fighting spirit point as well; the crowd just eat it up. One negative on him may be that he just goes into a little overkill sometimes, but one could argue that it fits perfectly with his character.


----------



## dele

Andy3000 said:


> *BJW Tag Team Titles Match: Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki v Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto (1/2/08)* *****1/2*


I was lucky enough to be at this event. It was fucking amazing. ****1/2 stars is actually low in my opinion. At *least* ****3/4 from me. The amazing thing: that wasn't the main event of the show.



-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> BJW is really pushing Miyamoto after his fantastic Trial matches. The guy BLEEDS fighting spirit. I'd think naturally he's going to be the next person to win the DM title of Shadow WX, or whoever will be the champ at the time, by the end of the year.
> 
> ....Still waiting for the Epic Jun Kasai push. :side:


They've been teasing the crowd for over a year with a Miyamoto title reign, it will happen by the end of this year.

And keep on waiting for that Jun Kasai push....


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I was actually going to go for a ****3/4 rating, but just decided a little lower. I won't argue with anybody giving it ****3/4 though.

And were you one of the masses chanting MIYA-MO-TO! MIYA-MO-TO!?


----------



## -Mystery-

*Dragon Gate Dead or Alive*
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - ****1/4


----------



## dele

Andy3000 said:


> I was actually going to go for a ****3/4 rating, but just decided a little lower. I won't argue with anybody giving it ****3/4 though.
> 
> And were you one of the masses chanting MIYA-MO-TO! MIYA-MO-TO!?


Hell yeah I was!! Me and some Japanese guys (who were hammered) had way too much fun at that show.


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE*
CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda ****1/2


----------



## Sephiroth

I really need to see CM Punk Heavy (get it? since he's KENTA lite...nm) vs. Doi

Oh hey, sup? 1000th post in this thread.


----------



## dele

Sephiroth said:


> I really need to see CM Punk Heavy (get it? since he's KENTA lite...nm) vs. Doi
> 
> Oh hey, sup? 1000th post in this thread.


You mean CM Punk Genuine Draft?


*IWA-MS: April Bloodshowers
Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer (No Rope, Barbed Wire match)*

I liked their I quit match a LOT more.

I give their I quit match ****1/4, so I give this match:
***3/4

It was an okay match.


----------



## watts63

*Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE*
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi ****


----------



## apocynthian

link please ^


----------



## Blasko

BJ Whitmer vs/ Jimmy Jacobs - **** 1/2

Jimmy Stabbing the table with a spike gave it the extra 1/4. Current DM of the year, but that would be easily replaced if more recent BJW was posted more. :side: 

I gave their I Quit **** 1/4 btw.









And Jimmy Jacobs is going to die before he reaches his 40s, at this rate.


----------



## McQueen

Who dies first Jimmy or Mark Briscoe?

Ok so I keep hearing about Takeshi Sasaki and I only saw that one match from him last year so someone needs to direct me to where I can download that match from 1/2/08 please. Dele i'm looking your way buddy.


----------



## Maxx Hero

watts63 said:


> *Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE*
> CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda ****1/2


So, I was wondering, how does the cage work with their styles? I would think it would have been a hinderance, but from the rating I would guess that is worked.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen, links to the 1/2/08 tag. Unfortunately dailymotion seems to be the only place for it since every other actual download link has expired as far as I can tell.

Part 1

Part 2

This is where I watched it, the VQ is great, the match is great, Sekimoto killing Miyamoto is AAAAWESOME; watch it!


----------



## -GP-

Andy3000 said:


> McQueen, links to the 1/2/08 tag. Unfortunately dailymotion seems to be the only place for it since every other actual download link has expired as far as I can tell.
> 
> Part 1
> 
> Part 2
> 
> This is where I watched it, the VQ is great, the match is great, Sekimoto killing Miyamoto is AAAAWESOME; watch it!


Thanks Andy

I'm hopping on the 4+1/2 train as well

*BJW Tag Team Titles Match: Sekimoto & Y. Sasaki v T. Sasaki & Miyamoto (1/2/08) - ****1/2*
Andy's review is not overexaggerating a single thing. Sekimoto f'n kills Miyamoto at least 10 times especially towards the end.
A couple of the single motion Germans have been mentioned, but i'd also like to add the bit where he lifts him in a gorilla press, drops him neck first on the ropes, and Germans him right off the bounce.
I can only imagine what his head must've felt like for the next month or so...


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Oh shit, Punk, I forgot about the gorilla press - even more awesomeness. Good call. 

I''ll definitely be keeping a look out for Miyamoto and Sekimoto this year, especially after their amazing 2007.


----------



## Burning Sword

I've never been much of a Deathmatch fan, but by the way you guys talk up the match makes me interested.


----------



## vivalabrave

Few matches I watched last night/this morning:

Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto BJW 1/2 ****1/4 (thank you Andy)

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ROH 2/23 ****1/4

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 2/23 ****3/4
This is the highest rating I've seen for the match but I tend to do that with these 2 (I have Driven and Unified at *****). Very different from their other matches but that's not a bad thing...it's a good thing (*DDP smile here*). My new MOTY and one I could see there at the end at #1.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Burning Sword said:


> I've never been much of a Deathmatch fan, but by the way you guys talk up the match makes me interested.


The tag match we're all pimping isn't a deathmatch; just straight wrestling. Trust us, it's awesome.

I've not been all that inerested in getting a hold of any ROH this year, but I'll definitely need to check out the 6AS and the 'Mania weekend shows once I get my new credit card (which really isn't a good idea to be honest).

Can't wait to watch some of the Dragon Gate stuff from the Dead or Alive PPV as well, although I'm pretty much going in chronological order when it comes to puro, so that won't be for another week or so since I have quite a bit to get through.


----------



## Burning Sword

Thanks for the info  

I'll check it out when I can.


----------



## KingKicks

vivalabrave said:


> Few matches I watched last night/this morning:
> 
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto BJW 1/2 ****1/4 (thank you Andy)
> 
> Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ROH 2/23 ****1/4
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 2/23 ****3/4
> This is the highest rating I've seen for the match but I tend to do that with these 2 (I have Driven and Unified at *****). Very different from their other matches but that's not a bad thing...it's a good thing (*DDP smile here*). My new MOTY and one I could see there at the end at #1.


Great to see a high rating for Danielson/Nigel, i've currently got it at ****1/2-****3/4.

It's just behind Flair vs. HBK for me, even though after another watch it could overtake it.


----------



## - Styles -

Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto BJW 1/2 *****1/4 - ****1/2*


Really awesome tag match, Sekimoto is a freakin beast. I don't think i've seen so many germans executed like that. And the triple german was sweet as hell too. I wasn't really feeling the match THAT much in the beginning but it really started picking up towards the middle/end. Probably my 3rd MOTY slightly ahead of Jacobs/Whitmer I quit match.


Thank Andy3000 for the link. It would be cool for more direct links like that to be posted so more newbs like myself can easily check out some of this incredible stuff that I usually wouldn't bother with.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

AjStyles>GOD said:


> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto BJW 1/2 *****1/4 - ****1/2*
> 
> 
> Really awesome tag match, Sekimoto is a freakin beast. I don't think i've seen so many germans executed like that. And the triple german was sweet as hell too. I wasn't really feeling the match THAT much in the beginning but it really started picking up towards the middle/end. Probably my 3rd MOTY slightly ahead of Jacobs/Whitmer I quit match.
> 
> 
> Thank Andy3000 for the link. It would be cool for more direct links like that to be posted so more newbs like myself can easily check out some of this incredible stuff that I usually wouldn't bother with.


Well now you've said it I'm obviously gonna put some up . I'm actually with you in that I wasn't feeling the beginning all that much either, although from the 7 minute mark forward I was almost chanting "MIYA-MO-TO" myself! Well, not really, but I was waaay into it.

There are actually quite a few Big Japan Wrestling links on dailymotion, although I've just really started to catch up with the puro for this year so if the resident Big Japan guys have any suggestions, I'd be happy to post the links.

There is one match that interests me though - Sekimoto v Mammoth Sasaki - which looks pretty great on paper as both are fantastic powerhouses. I expect someone to die!


----------



## dele

I have the Mammoth/Sekimoto match, I'll find it and put it up.

Sekimoto vs Mammoth

I'm also putting up a deathmatch from this year that is (imo) better than Jacobs/Whitmer in terms of the match. The build up for the latter obviously beats it.

Edit: 200 lighttubes plus alpha deathmatch:

Ryuji Ito and Yuko Miyamoto vs Jaki Numazawa and Shadow WX

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...-ito-miyamoto-vs-numazawa-wx.html#post5706249


----------



## -GP-

While we're on the Sekimoto subject, i'd like to put this down as well

*Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto* (ZERO 1-MAX 1-1-08) *****-****1/4 *

watched it a while ago but i don't think i ever got round to posting an opinion on it.


----------



## Maxx Hero

dele3344 said:


> *You mean CM Punk Genuine Draft?*


So I first read that late last night and I was like meh...

But now that I am not half asleep I must give you props on your use of words, straight edge man...genuine draft...funny stuff.



As for the BJW tag match, I was to sleepy last night to watch it, but I will soon esspetially after all this good talk of it. I have seen one Miyomoto match in the past and I thought this guy had a ton of potential, I can't wait to see it.


----------



## dele

GP_Punk said:


> While we're on the Sekimoto subject, i'd like to put this down as well
> 
> *Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto* (ZERO 1-MAX 1-1-08) *****-****1/4 *
> 
> watched it a while ago but i don't think i ever got round to posting an opinion on it.


I got to see this match live too, freaking amazing. ****1/4 is just right.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Nice uploads, dele! I'm looking forward to those, especially the deathmatch as I wasn't sure which were the best ones from the year so far. 

I'll also need to check out the Sekimoto/Tanaka match as I forgot that even happened. Last year's Fire Festival Final between the 2 was freakin' awesome.

Just watched this one:
*Hiroshi Tanahashi v AJ Styles (New Japan, 2/17/08)*

Great match! Tanahashi was probably my favourite wrestler on the planet before he got injured, and I was interested in seeing how good AJ was after not having saw him in almost a year; needless to say, it delivered.

I enjoyed AJ going all "Y2J in Japan", taunting the crowd and Tanahashi, while Tana is obviously the crowd favourite. Both guys pulled out some really good stuff too and since it's been so long since I last saw AJ his offence seemed fresh to me. 

My favourite spot of the match was the brainbuster on the apron, which Tanahashi took like a trooper. My actual favourite _thing_ in the match (as I'm sure it wasn't intentional) was when Tanahashi went to slide outside the ring so he could wrap AJ's leg around the ring-post, only to baseball slide a cameraman square in the face! It was beautiful - Tanahashi > cameramen.

I felt AJ could have sold the leg better than he did as, for pretty much all of it, he seemed to act like Tanahashi never went to town on it earlier in the match. Hell, when Tanahashi was in the middle of working over it he never really seemed to sell it then either. There were a couple of slightly sloppy parts as well, but nothing that would take away from the rating.

So, great match, 2 great wrestlers - top 5 for the year so far from what I've seen. ******


----------



## Kawada55

-Mystery- said:


> *AJPW Champion's Carnival*
> Hiroshi Tanhashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - **** - ****1/4


Where did you watch this at?


----------



## watts63

Andy, do you have the Tanahashi/Styles match?

Just seen Kawada/Tanahashi match & I gave it ***3/4. Why did Kawada had to miss those kicks?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

DAISUKE SEKIMOTO IS YOUR FUCKING GOD!!! Here's why:

*WEW Title Match - Mammoth Sasaki(c) v Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW, 2/9/08)*

Holeee Shit! This was fucking AWESOME! Now I'm not the biggest fan of the "I'll chop you, you chop me; I'll lariat you, you lariat me" match dynamic, but these guys are so great at being 'immovable object' powerhouse workers, it's damn near impossible not to love this.

I'm not joking when I say I loved every freakin' second of this. Every one! Hell, I knew I was going to dig the hell out of it even before the bell rang with them both giving the whole "As soon as this bell rings, I'm gonna fuckin' MURDER you!" look as they stood in their corners, ready to just charge at each other. And they did that - from bell to bell - in an attempt to see who the real badass is while both trying everything they could to utterly fuck the other one up in the process. 

The match was just a huge power struggle. A beautiful, stiff, lariating, head dropping power struggle. I loved how both guys would always end up standing in the middle of the ring together trying to knock the other the fuck out because everything else they did would only lead back to this situation anyway. The deuling chops (so damn stiff); the deuling lariats (also so damn stiff); and even the deuling vertical suplex attempts were all perfect with the story they were telling.

Speaking of deuling vertical suplexes, the first time it happened Sekimoto got one over, knocking the wind right out of the chunkier Sasaki. Then, the second time, Mammoth wins this particular struggle, but Sekimoto's not as chunky as Mammoth, so he drops him on his head instead - awesome payback spot.

What's even better than a perfectly timed payback spot though? Daisuke Sekimoto dropping Mammoth motherfucking Sasaki on his head after a HUGE Deadlift German. Twice! Seriously, The guy is a fucking machine!

Anyway, after 21 minutes, Mammoth finally gets the momentum to swing his way long enough to drop Sekimoto on his head AGAIN (after a killer lariat, by the way) and pick up the 3 count, keeping his title after seeing off his undoubted equal. Awesome, awesome stuff.

I'm still on the fence right now about this, and I'm pretty sure I'll be the only one, but I might even put this on a higher level than the Sasaki/Miyamoto v Sekimoto/Sasaki tag from 1/2. I really did love it that much. Swan Lake it ain't, but I sure as hell was mesmarised.

And just to add this, Mammoth looks incredibly like Jumbo in this match. From the all black ring attire (Jumbo elbow pads included), to the chunky build, he's like a 21st century Jumbo Tsuruta. And I also couldn't help but notice that if you squint real hard, Sekimoto looks like a 'roided up monkey version of Kobashi! So this was the 21st century version of Jumbo v Kobashi... just 'coz it fucking is. *****1/2*

dele, thanks a shit load for upping this bad boy.

*EDIT:* Yeah, watts, I've got that one, d/ld it yesterday? You need an upload?


----------



## El Conquistador

I'd love to be able to sit through a BJW match but I just can't find the strength to do so. The language barrier (only with this foreign promotion) causes so many various problems for me. I can't find the attention spand to do it but I'm hoping to start off with that deathmatch you provided above, dele. Thanks for that.

Awesome review on the Tanahashi/Styles match, Andy. AJ not selling his leg as much as he could have was an excellent point that I hadn't even thought of. Still got it at ****1/4 but maybe that'll bring the rating down next time I view the match again.


----------



## watts63

Yeah Andy, I need to see that match.


----------



## dele

The really awesome thing about the Sasaki/Sekimoto fight is that, in person, Sasaki's chest was bleeding after about 10 minutes.


----------



## Blasko

M.W. said:


> I'd love to be able to sit through a BJW match but I just can't find the strength to do so. The language barrier (only with this foreign promotion) causes so many various problems for me. I can't find the attention spand to do it but I'm hoping to start off with that deathmatch you provided above, dele. Thanks for that.


 I'd start off with Abby Jr. Vs Sasaki from, I think, 06. Really insane stuff.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

dele3344 said:


> The really awesome thing about the Sasaki/Sekimoto fight is that, in person, Sasaki's chest was bleeding after about 10 minutes.


You attended that show as well? Damn, I'd love to go to some Big Japan shows in person.

watts, I'll get on the Tana/Styles match right now.

*EDIT:* Checked the Other Media section to see if I could find a link for Tanahashi/Styles (to save me having to wait an hour before mine re-ups ), and found this:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-media/395085-aj-styles-vs-hiroshi-tanahashi-njpw-2-17-08-a.html

It's 200 something megs, so the quality should be pretty great, and the link still looks good. Hope this helps.


----------



## dele

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I'd start off with Abby Jr. Vs Sasaki from, I think, 06. Really insane stuff.


The light tubes and kenzans match?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfTShzPFw0c

Not the best quality, but freaking insane.


----------



## watts63

*BJW 4/28/08*
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/2

*BJW 2/9/08*
Mammoth Sasaki vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah, so, Big Japan is fucking ruling it from what I've been watching so far. That Sekimoto/Tanaka match you just rated watts sounds awesome as well. Just got done d/ling that one, so thanks for upping it.


----------



## - Styles -

^^^^Just finished watching the one watts63 uploaded


Tanaka/Sekimoto BJW 4/28/08 *****1/2 - ****3/4*

WOW my new MOTY. It was so ultra-competitive really back and forth stuff. Loved how Tanaka kept trying to block those Germans (mostly failed lol). Too many great moments to count but thoroughly enjoyed every minute. One word EPIC!

I'm loving all this Sekimoto stuff...Must.Watch.More.....


----------



## dele

^^^ What did I say back in January? Sekimoto is the best wrestler most people have never heard of.

Besides, him and Tanaka were made to wrestle eachother.


----------



## Kawada55

watts63 said:


> Andy, do you have the Tanahashi/Styles match?
> 
> Just seen Kawada/Tanahashi match & I gave it ***3/4. Why did Kawada had to miss those kicks?


Where did you watch it at?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'm sure there's a link to Tanahashi/Kawada in the Other Media section.


----------



## watts63

Kawada55 said:


> Where did you watch it at?


It's at the other media section.

Since late '07, I been saying that Sekimoto fucking rules!


----------



## Leonardo LunchBoX

Idk if it was cover but 
IWA-MS - Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer Barbed Wire; April Bloodshowers.

Pretty sick stuff. Really after watching this i have a complete new respect for the beating Jimmy Jacobs takes. At one point the barbed wire was stuck IN his skin.


----------



## dele

Just got done watching Sekimoto/Tanaka 3.

Every variable was there:
- Hot crowd
- Great Rivalry
- Title Match
- Main Event
- Great Wrestling
- Awesome Spots

I'm going to give it ****9/10-*****
Yeah, it is that damn good.


----------



## watts63

*ZERO1-MAX Ichii Senshin GW Special (4/29/08)*
Masato Tanaka & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato ****1/4-****1/2

*ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show*
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka ****


----------



## -GP-

ok, now i have to watch Tanaka-Sekimoto from 4/28 too...


----------



## sirdilznik

*KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - Dead or Alive - ****1/2* - Keep in mind that Naruki Doi is one of my top 5 favorite wrestlers on the planet so I'm biased. Great match. Slightly longer than I would have liked but there really weren't any dead spots. The last 4-5 minutes was just insane. The biggest thing taking away from this match for me was the semi-botched/weak ass looking GTS at the end. The one that KENTA hit earlier in the match where Doi put his foot on the rope was MUCH better. Doi reversing the GTS into The Muscular Bomb then KENTA kicking out on the delayed cover was awesome. The Doi 555 off the second rope was insane as was the Falcon Arrow off the top. Naruki Doi's bloody mouth was a nice addition too but doesn't make up for the finisher. If only the finisher was better and KENTA sold the leg better earlier on I could have been talking ****3/4


----------



## - Styles -

^Just finished watching that match. Really entertaining all the way through. Stiff as fuck would be an understatement. 
But yeah, the semi-botched GTS was sad looking, you could hear the crowd waiting to explode, and then a AWWWWWWWEEEE.... Swept the arena lol. 

I'd give it ****-****1/4


----------



## -Mystery-

Pretty much agree with everyone's ratings on KENTA/Doi, ****-****1/4 seems about right. Although, ****1/2 is reasonable as well. Man, KENTA/CIMA later this year is going to rule all.


----------



## McQueen

Forget CIMA, KENTA/Liger please.


----------



## Kapone89

Just by reading this thread has made me realize that i have a shitload of wrestling to look forward too.


----------



## AussieFan

1. Edge vs Undertaker - Wm 24

2. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - Wm 24

3. Smackdown Elim. Chamber - NWO 08

4. Joe vs Angle - iMPACT


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

KENTA/CIMA and KENTA/Liger both FTW!

KENTA/Shingo as well, but right now, my Japanese dream match would have to be Shingo/Sekimoto - I'm almost drooling. 

Also, has anybody had a chance to check out the 4/25 match which was Kanemoto/Taguchi v Tanaka/Takaiwa? Koji/Tanaka and Koji/Takaiwa exchanges interest me quite a bit.


----------



## Sephiroth

you guys are way off...Danshoku Dino vs. Hard Gay is the real Dynamic Dream Match!


----------



## vivalabrave

Andy3000 said:


> Just watched this one:
> *Hiroshi Tanahashi v AJ Styles (New Japan, 2/17/08)*
> 
> Great match! Tanahashi was probably my favourite wrestler on the planet before he got injured, and I was interested in seeing how good AJ was after not having saw him in almost a year; needless to say, it delivered.
> 
> I enjoyed AJ going all "Y2J in Japan", taunting the crowd and Tanahashi, while Tana is obviously the crowd favourite. Both guys pulled out some really good stuff too and since it's been so long since I last saw AJ his offence seemed fresh to me.
> 
> My favourite spot of the match was the brainbuster on the apron, which Tanahashi took like a trooper. *My actual favourite thing in the match (as I'm sure it wasn't intentional) was when Tanahashi went to slide outside the ring so he could wrap AJ's leg around the ring-post, only to baseball slide a cameraman square in the face! It was beautiful - Tanahashi > cameramen.*
> 
> I felt AJ could have sold the leg better than he did as, for pretty much all of it, he seemed to act like Tanahashi never went to town on it earlier in the match. Hell, when Tanahashi was in the middle of working over it he never really seemed to sell it then either. There were a couple of slightly sloppy parts as well, but nothing that would take away from the rating.
> 
> So, great match, 2 great wrestlers - top 5 for the year so far from what I've seen. ******


:lmao I remember watching this a couple months ago and just dying laughing. I went back and replayed it like 20 times (He never saw it coming...:no: lol)


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Haha, he never even aknowledged it, making it even funnier. It's 'coz he knows that cameramen are so far beneath him. The dude should be privelaged that Hiroshi Tanahashi kicked him in the head.


----------



## vivalabrave

I wish it would happen to me. :agree:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*Fluorescant Lighttubes Death Match: Ryuji Ito & Shadow WX v Yuko Miyamoto & Takashi Sasaki (BJW, 2/9/08)*

Big Japan is seriously ruling it right now, and this continues that trend. I'm not the biggest fan of Ito, and Shadow I'm pretty indifferent to (althoug he was great here), but Sasaki and Miyamoto are one of my favourite tag teams at the moment and they have yet another great match here, this time in the death match stting as opposed to the regular tag format they had with Sekimoto/Sasaki from 1/2.

Miyamoto is an absolute babyface heat magnet, so the crowd are constantly making noise in this one, especially in the last 5 minutes where Shadow goes about killing him. Speaking of Shadow, the guy takes some sick shit in this, including a couple of running knee shots from Miyamoto, driving a bunch of lighttubes into his chest, and a sick roundhouse kick from Sasaki that drives some more lighttubes into the side of his head. I like how he would just run the ropes whether there were still lighttubes attatched to them or not, making him seem like a badass (which the match in general managed to do) for not caring if he gets a shit load of glass stuck into his back. He's also the one that eventually picks up the win for his team after destroying Miyamoto with lariats and brainbusters.

This is the first death match I've watched this year (still have to see BJ/Jacobs NRBW as wel as the DM that dele uploaded), so naturally it goes top of the death match list, but I still feel it will take a bit to beat this one once I get caught up with Big Japan. It's not in my top 5 for the year overall, but it's a pretty good choice for top 10. ******

Just downloaded the 1/1/08 Zero-1 matches I'm interested in (Tanaka/Sekimoto and MCMG/Hidaka & Togo) so I'll get to watching them later.

I've actually _really_ been enjoying the puro scene so far this year. I only started to catch up this week, but the Zero-1/New Japan feud, Big Japan, the CC and guys like Sekimoto, Miyamoto and Masato Yoshino really have me looking forward to shit again, which isn't something I was feeling last year.


----------



## Sephiroth

Ryuji Ito is GOD. m i rite?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Depends which religioon you follow. We clearly follow different ones... I fall more into the 'Tanahashi is GOD but when he's injured Sekimoto is GOD' religion.


----------



## -Mystery-

*FIP Redefined*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ****1/2


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH 6th Anniversary Show*

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - *****1/4*

The last 10-15 min or so are absolutely fantastic. Go's got some wicked chops! 

Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ***** - ****1/4*

Sacrilege! I know.... I just couldn't get into Nigel/Dragon as much as I thought I would. Loved the heat Mcguiness was getting though, the crowd fucking hated him lol. I actually preferred the Aries/Nigel match from Rising Above (I think it was) alot more.


----------



## Sephiroth

Andy3000 said:


> Depends which religioon you follow. We clearly follow different ones... I fall more into the 'Tanahashi is GOD but when he's injured Sekimoto is GOD' religion.


I was just saying it because Dele always shits a brick about how much Ito sucks.



AjStyles>GOD said:


> Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ***** - ****1/4*
> 
> Sacrilege! I know.... I just couldn't get into Nigel/Dragon as much as I thought I would. Loved the heat Mcguiness was getting though, the crowd fucking hated him lol. I actually preferred the Aries/Nigel match from Rising Above (I think it was) alot more.


Don't worry, the majority of the people that have rated it in this thread have said **** 1/4 (myself included)


----------



## WillTheBloody

AjStyles>GOD said:


> *ROH 6th Anniversary Show*
> 
> Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - *****1/4*
> 
> The last 10-15 min or so are absolutely fantastic. Go's got some wicked chops!
> 
> Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ***** - ****1/4*
> 
> Sacrilege! I know.... I just couldn't get into Nigel/Dragon as much as I thought I would. Loved the heat Mcguiness was getting though, the crowd fucking hated him lol. I actually preferred the Aries/Nigel match from Rising Above (I think it was) alot more.


This is, word for word, what my post was about to be. Saved me some time :agree:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Sephiroth said:


> I was just saying it because Dele always shits a brick about how much Ito sucks.


Ah, OK. Haven't really haven't seen enough of him to say he sucks, but that's probably because I dislike him enough to stay away from most of his matches.

*Zero-1 Light Heavyweight Tag Team Titles Match - Alex Shelly & Chris Sabin v Ikuto Hidaka & Dick Togo (Zero-1, 1/1/08)*

This was pretty good, but it just felt like a spot-fest for the majority of it. I'm a fan of the Dragon Gate style anyway, so I still enjoyed it since it was as great an exhibition of MOVES~ as there's been this year at least. 

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the Murder City machine Guns outside their ROH match with The Briscos, but I've always enjoyed the stuff I do manage to watch, and they definitely impress me as a tag team. They're excellent with the double team spots here as well, as are their opponents. Dick Togo's the fucking MAN though so it's to be expected.

Too many cool spots to call, many of which too freakin' complicated to call, but both teams brought their 'A game' for sure. Nothing much else to say really other than if you enjoy the "indy style", I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy this. ****1/2*


----------



## watts63

*BJW 1/2/08*
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## peep4life

ROH 6th Anniversary Show

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ****1/4
Absolutely loved this match. Its amazing, that about a year ago I was ready to write off Aries as he seemed to be going through the motions, but since the Danielson trilogy, his matches with Nigel and Stevens, as well as this match, it seems that Aries is on his game and arguably better than ever.
By the way, Go is a beast.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*Zero-1 World Heavtweight Title Match - Masato Tanaka v Daisuke Sekimoto (Zero-1, 1/1/08)*

More Sekimoto is great, but more Sekimoto v Tanaka is even better! Coming into this, Sekimoto had pushed Tanaka to a 30 minute draw in the Fire Festival last year, so it looked like he had his number. BUT, Tanaka had picked up a huge amount of steam since winning the Festival and the World Title, destroying people's faces with his Sliding Dust finishing move (sliding elbow to seated opponent's face) along the way. I loved how they played up the fact they were equally matched throughout most of it, until the more experienced Tanaka pushed ahead and finally put the beast away with 3 Sliding Dusts. Couldn't really ask for much more in terms of storytelling.

In saying that, though, I wasn't _really_ feeling the first half of the match. I enjoyed it, but it only seemed to be going along nicely, as opposed to being blow-away. The second half of it was just awesome though. Sekimoto's German suplexes are over anywhere he goes in japan now and they've really been built as a deadly weapon. Tanaka was really great at selling the deadlyness (I don't actually think that's even a word, but fuck it) of them too, literally grabbing the ropes for dear life every time Sekimoto attempted one. By the end, his facial expressions were fantastic when Sekimoto was hitting them, giving an "Oh shit, this time I'm definitely gonna die." look, as well as swinging his arms looking for something to grab onto. 

My favourite spot has to be when Tanaka, who had managed to counter or escape every German that Seki' had attempted, pinned him after (I think) a lariat, only for Sekimoto to quickly slip out of it and, from the mat, hook Tanaka around the waist and German him right from that position. Awesome.

So this built off their previous match really well, and in the end, despite the slow start, it delivered. Bring on Tanaka/Sekimoto III. *****1/4*


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Mystery- said:


> *FIP Redefined*
> Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ****1/2


I demand more.

Danielson vs. Low Ki - All Star Weekend 6 Night 1

This started off with some high quality MMA stuff, with beatiful transitions back and forth between that and normal pro wrestling stuff. I wish everyone who came over Angle vs. Joe saw this, or better, their Round Robin Challenge match, which is *****. 

Danielson owns Ki at the MMA shit after awhile and ends up controling by hurting his arm. After that it's all Dragon control, as Ki gives up the big chops, but uses his feet and big moves to stay in the match, while Danielson is putting together beautiful combinations to make Ki's situation seem really desperate. Unfortunately, this entails totally ditching the MMA and the arm work for the remainder of the match, meaning, as cool as it was, it doesn't come back and thus ends up rather pointless.

Danielson's control continues, but Ki gets more and more offense, but struggles doing combinations. Danielson just can't finish Ki, who has numerous Cattle Mutilation counters and is simply too tough and agile for anything else in Danielson's arsenal. Ki tries a big combo, going for a Phoenix Splash, a move he has defeated Danielson with before, but Danielson is ready. The Tree of Woe double stomp, however, isn't something Ki was doing when Dragon faced him all the time, so that's a huge openning which weakens Danielson enough to take the Ki Crusher and then immediately the Dragon Clutch in combination, forcing Danielson to tap. **** - **** 1/4

The MMA and arm work should have come back and the missed spots hurt, but on the other hand, this told a great story of Ki having fallen behind Dragon in skill and rising and rising until his own combinations outshone those of the 'Best Wrestler in the World.'


----------



## El Conquistador

Hey, Andy. Would you care to shoot me a PM with a link of that New Year encounter between Tanaka & Sekimoto? I'd really appreciate it and in turn would be willing to donate points, upload something for you in the future, or straight up sex you. 

Haha. If not, it's not a big deal, thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.


----------



## Blasko

Andy, please send me Tanaka/Sekimoto first. So I can send it to M.W and take up his offer on 'straight up' sex.


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH Proving Ground: Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries 

This is for Stevens’ FIP Title. This is Stevens revenge for Aries breaking up the Resilience. 

They begin with some technical wrestling, won by Aries handily. Aries shows the first of his veteran wiles, convincing Stevens to run to the ropes, then cold clocking him and taking the match back to the mat. Stevens is strong enough to overcome this and shoots Aries to the ropes, hitting the shoulder tackle and establishing a power advantage. Aries hits the floor to frustrate Stevens, taking his time out there. 

Aries comes back in with a shoving match as he keeps trying to get in Stevens head. This leads to a Stevens chop and he goes for two more big strikes, but Aries moves, building momentum, and takes Stevens down with a shoulder block. Aries is thinking far ahead of Stevens in this match. Stevens tries to score one big move, but Aries has counters and ideas planned. 

Aries again has control on the mat and Stevens, again, powers out. Aries now has a plan for that and gets control on Stevens. Stevens uses his power to again stop Aries control. They repeat it again and finally Aries heat period sticks. 

That doesn’t last long and Aries runs into a powerslam and Stevens gets a short period of control, which he does with high impact moves. They begin countering each other at much greater frequency, neither man able to get anything going, with Aries counters matching Stevens power. 

Aries eventually uses the top rope and goes after Stevens neck, setting up the Brainbuster and Horns of Aries. Aries slingshots onto Stevens neck that’s hanging out of the ring. Back in and Aries runs into a back drop. Stevens then grabs a bearhug. Everything Stevens does hurts the back. He then goes with a huge overhead belly-to-belly. 

Stevens is in control with a sequence of big power moves. Aries gets desperate and rolls through a German suplex attempt, dumping Stevens to the floor. Aries follows with his heat seeking missile. Aries gets Stevens in and throws a ton of back elbows, but stops to taunt and so gets dropped to the floor. Stevens power is such than at any opportunity he asserts himself with it. 

Stevens dives from the apron to tackle Aries. Stevens tries the Choo Choo on the floor, but is elevated into the crowd, where Aries dives on him from the top rope. Both men struggle to get back to the ring and are counted out. Stevens refuses to take a victory that way and restarts the match. 

Aries attacks and immediately tries to finish. Stevens fights him off, but Aries is in full counter mode and a lariat becomes the crucifix bomb. Aries manages to hit the brainbuster, but the 450 hits knees as Stevens steps up his game! He hits a German, but Aries see’s the Choo Choo coming and nails another counter with the lariat. Aries tries the Horns, but Stevens with a huge counter now into a TKO! 

They battle over the Doctor Bomb, trading elbows, but Aries takes out the legs and nails the kick, brainbuster… no… Stevens gets Aries up, but Aries knees him in the air to escape and it’s the Horns of Aries. Stevens fights out straight into the clubbing lariat! Stevens tries a Doctor Bomb again, but this time Aries hits a hurricanrana. Aries hits a roaring elbow, but Stevens turns with a lariat. Doctor Bomb hits and Aries is done! 

Erick Stevens defeats Austin Aries (Pin, Doctor Bomb, **** 1/4-****1/2)

And Stevens proves himself both kayfabe and non-kayfabe with a fantastic match. They did a ton of Aries veteran vs. Stevens rookie stuff, with Aries thinking so far ahead of Stevens that had an answer for literally everything Stevens tried. Of course, Stevens is the Resilience, so despite his beating, and due to his awesome power, he can withstand Aries stuff just enough to finish him off. Worth getting the DVD for this. Better than any Stevens vs. Strong match or Stevens vs. Danielson. Stevens is the Resilience.


----------



## PulseGlazer

For Hero vs. Tornado Pearl Habra and Redefined Stevens vs. Strong.


PWG Pearl Habra: Chris Hero w/ Candice LeRae vs. Human Tornado

Tornado has been the evil pimp in PWG and beaten on LeRae. This made Hero take up a Hero role to save her. Hero and Tornado have been beating the piss out of each other ever since. 

The match is sheer brutality with a wild brawl. When Tornado controls, it’s using his speed and doing as many stomps and dropkicks as possible to weaken Hero’s head for Dat ***** Dead. Hero is merely aiming for pure brutality and dishing out punishment, having far more experience in matches of this type. 

Tornado controls and weakens Hero for most of the early part, increasing his risks, but Hero gets rather cranky and takes out a chain, using that to take down Tornado. He hits the Hero’s Welcome on a chair and this might not last very long, but Tornado lands in the ropes. Hero senses victory is near and goes to the top, but he’s too slow and Tornado counters by tossing a trashcan at him. Great selling from Tornado as he uses the can to regain control. A chair is set up outside as Tornado hits the DND on a chair! Hero is able to barely grit it out for a 2 and 9/10 call. Tornado goes for a twisting senton, but puts himself through the table instead. 

On the outside, Hero piles chairs and slams Tornado on top, then dives onto the pile and Tornado. Of course, with this being out of the ring, by the time Tornado gets in, it’s only good for a two count. Tornado uses speed to counter a final Hero’s Welcome and we go to showdown mode. Tornado forgoes that, knowing it’s a sure loss, and takes out Hero’s knee, which was very recently hurt and caused him to miss shows. The knee is attacked with weapons and Tornado locks in an elevated cloverleaf. With the pressure on the hurt knee and sitting on Hero’s hurt head, he won’t give up, but LeRae throws in the towel. 

Tornado defeats Hero (towel thrown in, Cloverleaf, **** - **** ¼)
Hero is an amazing brawler and the hate here was absolutely intense. With the speed advantage and later knee attack, Tornado showed great strategy and working the head even paid off. Hero was just so tough and awesome at his role of desperately trying to get a big enough, bad enough move to hurt Tornado. Chris Hero is perfect in any role which features him in heated feuds, especially brawling, though in ROH it should be as a heel, not a face.

FIP Redefined: Erick Stevens © vs. Roderick Strong

This one features Stevens as FIP Champion, and Roderick trying to get back the belt he lost. Both men are faces.

They do a surprisingly extended and well developed mat sequence. Roderick ends up barely ahead there, but not enough to control. They then go with a striking sequence and it’s absurdly stiff, but Roddy ends up ahead. They keep going at it nearly even until on the floor, Roderick “accidentally” hits Stevens in the head with the FIP Belt. Stevens is gushing blood out of the side of his head as Roderick narrowly convinces the ref to not disqualify him.

Roderick with control mixes strikes and backwork for quite a while, but simply cannot keep the irrepressible Stevens down. Stevens fights back after a Stronghold and numerous combinations, so Roderick gets desperate and pulls the ref in front of an oncoming clothesline. He then pulls Stevens outside the ring and destroys, and I mean destroys him with a chair shot. Roderick gets back in the ring, wakes the ref, and wins the FIP Title.

Roderick Strong defeats Erick Stevens (Countout, Chair Shot, **** ¼ - **** 1/2)
If you can deal with the ending, this is a major, major MOTYC for 2008. Stevens and Roderick had a war more than a match, fighting for everything and selling to perfection. Roderick’s sneaky heel turn to Stevens clean resilience (pun intended) all match was absolutely awesome. The ending was a bit anticlimactic, but since the new heel won, that’s kind of the point. If anything, I am under-rating this match. Go to www.rohwrestling.com now and buy this DVD for $15. You won’t regret it.


----------



## KingKicks

PulseGlazer said:


> FIP Redefined: Erick Stevens © vs. Roderick Strong
> 
> This one features Stevens as FIP Champion, and Roderick trying to get back the belt he lost. Both men are faces.
> 
> They do a surprisingly extended and well developed mat sequence. Roderick ends up barely ahead there, but not enough to control. They then go with a striking sequence and it’s absurdly stiff, but Roddy ends up ahead. They keep going at it nearly even until on the floor, Roderick “accidentally” hits Stevens in the head with the FIP Belt. Stevens is gushing blood out of the side of his head as Roderick narrowly convinces the ref to not disqualify him.
> 
> Roderick with control mixes strikes and backwork for quite a while, but simply cannot keep the irrepressible Stevens down. Stevens fights back after a Stronghold and numerous combinations, so Roderick gets desperate and pulls the ref in front of an oncoming clothesline. He then pulls Stevens outside the ring and destroys, and I mean destroys him with a chair shot. Roderick gets back in the ring, wakes the ref, and wins the FIP Title.
> 
> Roderick Strong defeats Erick Stevens (Countout, Chair Shot, **** ¼ - **** 1/2)
> If you can deal with the ending, this is a major, major MOTYC for 2008. Stevens and Roderick had a war more than a match, fighting for everything and selling to perfection. Roderick’s sneaky heel turn to Stevens clean resilience (pun intended) all match was absolutely awesome. The ending was a bit anticlimactic, but since the new heel won, that’s kind of the point. If anything, I am under-rating this match. Go to www.rohwrestling.com now and buy this DVD for $15. You won’t regret it.


Great write-up, Strong vs. Stevens is currently my 5th match of the year but it's also my personal favourite.

Got it at **** 1/2 but on another watch i reckon i could go up to **** 3/4.


----------



## dele

Sephiroth said:


> I was just saying it because Dele always shits a brick about how much Ito sucks.


What's really funny is that I was at this match, and I was giving Ito shit the whole match. At one point, he botched a springboard clothesline to the my side, and I shouted "SUGEIIII! (AWESOME!!!)" I also called out a series of moves he did and then yelled out "Same old shit Ito!" Michael Nakazawa was surprised by that, I was surprised that he understood me.



-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Andy, please send me Tanaka/Sekimoto first. So I can send it to M.W and take up his offer on 'straight up' sex.


I'd ask for the link, but I saw it in person . Look for a white guy in the third row.


----------



## McQueen

Make that three Andy, I want to see some more Sekimoto myself.


----------



## Blasko

So, that means both of us are going to have sex with M.W?

Y'all are gay. :no:


----------



## McQueen

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> So, that means both of us are going to have sex with M.W?
> 
> Y'all are gay. :no:


I got dibs on Caboose in the sex train then.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Edge vs. Punk - Smackdown

Early part of the match is all Punk looking great, out powering, mat wrestling, striking against Edge, but early on that didn't lead to any big moves, despite a long control period. When Punk went up top, Edge struck opportunistically, knocking him off and using that to control. 

This control worked until Punk utilized his striking advantage to attack Edge. Edge continually tried to sneak out one big move for a pin, while Punk usually had ready counters with strikes, which got bigger and bigger, closer and closer nearfalls. Eventually, the spear was countered into Go to Sleep, but Edge fell out of the ring, a distracting run in later, and Punk ate a spear for the loss, but came out looking golden. *** 3/4.

This did a fantastic job of getting over Punk as on Edge's level and everything Edge did played into his opportunistic character. TV MOTY over Jeff Umaga and far over Angle-Joe.


----------



## Sephiroth

dele3344 said:


> What's really funny is that I was at this match, and I was giving Ito shit the whole match. At one point, he botched a springboard clothesline to the my side, and I shouted "SUGEIIII! (AWESOME!!!)" I also called out a series of moves he did and then yelled out "Same old shit Ito!" Michael Nakazawa was surprised by that, I was surprised that he understood me.



I'm pretty sure Nakazawa knows English. At ROH's 4/19 show, I was waiting in line for tickets for the next show and guess who comes walking about, Nakazawa and the sexiest man alive, Kota Ibushi. Nakazawa was translating some stuff for Kota. Plus he was saying hi to fans and then him and Kota bowed back to me when i bowed. (that's how i roll)


----------



## watts63

Andy3000 said:


> *Fluorescant Lighttubes Death Match: Ryuji Ito & Shadow WX v Yuko Miyamoto & Takashi Sasaki (BJW, 2/9/08)*
> 
> Big Japan is seriously ruling it right now, and this continues that trend. I'm not the biggest fan of Ito, and Shadow I'm pretty indifferent to (althoug he was great here), but Sasaki and Miyamoto are one of my favourite tag teams at the moment and they have yet another great match here, this time in the death match stting as opposed to the regular tag format they had with Sekimoto/Sasaki from 1/2.
> 
> Miyamoto is an absolute babyface heat magnet, so the crowd are constantly making noise in this one, especially in the last 5 minutes where Shadow goes about killing him. Speaking of Shadow, the guy takes some sick shit in this, including a couple of running knee shots from Miyamoto, driving a bunch of lighttubes into his chest, and a sick roundhouse kick from Sasaki that drives some more lighttubes into the side of his head. I like how he would just run the ropes whether there were still lighttubes attatched to them or not, making him seem like a badass (which the match in general managed to do) for not caring if he gets a shit load of glass stuck into his back. He's also the one that eventually picks up the win for his team after destroying Miyamoto with lariats and brainbusters.
> 
> This is the first death match I've watched this year (still have to see BJ/Jacobs NRBW as wel as the DM that dele uploaded), so naturally it goes top of the death match list, but I still feel it will take a bit to beat this one once I get caught up with Big Japan. It's not in my top 5 for the year overall, but it's a pretty good choice for top 10. ******


Can you upload that match?


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Mystery- said:


> *FIP Redefined*
> Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ****1/2





Sephiroth said:


> I'm pretty sure Nakazawa knows English. At ROH's 4/19 show, I was waiting in line for tickets for the next show and guess who comes walking about, Nakazawa and the sexiest man alive, Kota Ibushi. Nakazawa was translating some stuff for Kota. Plus he was saying hi to fans and then him and Kota bowed back to me when i bowed. (that's how i roll)


Spoke to him in Edison. Broken English, but can handle conversation.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Jacobs vs. Whitmer- I Quit

They started as always, Jacobs uses speed to set up his ultraviolence, while Whitmer uses power for his. This works and is good until Whitmer ties Jacobs to the ropes (with help from Fannon) and bashes the living shit out of Jacobs with a kendo stick, going after the legs and head. The legs are how Jacobs usually sets up his offense, so when he's free, he immediately tries to finish with the guillotine choke. That doesn't work and he's screwed.

Whitmer takes him out big time with weapons while Jacobs tries and fails to use speed, locking in the figure four for the false finish due to ref stoppage as Jacobs is KO-ed. They restart the match since that isn't an "I Quit" and Whitmer goes back to the same move, but this time Jacobs escapes with a spike. 

They go to a spike war and Jacobs looks like he has nothing left as Whitmer looks to finish... Jacobs, out of desearation goes to the groin with the spike; Whitmer has no choice but to quit and Jacobs pulls out a miracle. **** 1/4-**** 1/2.

Jacobs desperation was his only weapon after his knee was annihilated by Whitmer, and, through pure grit, he found the only way he was going to beat the faster, stronger Whitmer... he out meaned him. Baddass and if anyone actually sold in this it'd be 5*.


----------



## Taroostyles

I think the TV MOTY so far has to be HBK/Hardy, only one I gave 4* to anyway.


----------



## Mr. Reinheimer

As of right now my TV MOTY is MVP vs Matt Hardy from the 4/04 Smackdown. The story going into it was superb (Hardy's return to extract revenge on MVP, and MVP's oppertunaty to do the same after Hardy screwed him out of the MITB), and shown throughout the match. It was unlike anything the two have competed in against eachother, as there was no title on the line. Almost an all out brawl with a load of psychology in the mix. Great leg work by Hardy, and some incredible selling by both men which made the match look very stiff from the get go. I'll have to rewatch Hardy vs Michaels, but this match is definately better than the Cage Match, and Punk vs. Edge.

Match Rating - ****3/4-*****


----------



## watts63

*ROH 6th Anniversary Show*
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

Anyone want to up MVP-Matt and Jeff-Shawn?


----------



## -Mystery-

Glazer, I didn't give any explanation for Strong/Stevens because I'm going to watch it again. First watch was pretty much to soak in all the awesomeness.


----------



## -Destiny-

My television match of the year is HHH/Orton at ***3/4 with Hardy/HBK and Punk/Edge behind.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Okay, so: 

*M.W, McQueen and Blasko* - you all have PMs. *dele*, if you decide you want the link anyway (even though you were there live, lucky prick) let me know. Just to reitterate, I want no part of any sex train.

*watts*; here's the dailymotion link for that match you requested - unfortunately I haven't been able to find any download links for it - but the quality's really good and this is where I saw it anyway.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/2%252F9%2Bmiyamoto/video/x5ahdi_ritoshadow-wx-vs-tsasakiyuko-miyamo_sport

*Aaron*; here are dailymotion links for the 2 matches you requested. Again, I don't know where to get download links for them, but this is quicker and easier anyway. Could only find the HBK/Hardy match in 2 parts though. I actually have to see the MVP/Hardy match as well...

Matt Hardy v MVP, Smackdown! 4/4/08

HBK v Jeff Hardy, RAW 2/11/08 part 1
HBK v Jeff Hardy, RAW 2/11/08 part 2

There, I've done my good deeds for the day 

And just to chime in on the best TV match discussion, mine is HBK/Jeff, although I've only seen Undertaker/Festus of the pimped matches from Smackdown!


----------



## El Conquistador

I was offering sex to Andy exclusively. That's right, neither you or McQueen would have had my permission to partake, Blasko. Considering Andy would like to avoid sexual contact, I think I'll abide by that request.

Thanks for the PM though. Tanaka/Sekimoto owns on so many levels.


----------



## Blasko

Andy just cock blocked me. You bastard. :$


----------



## KeepItFresh

I guess my top TV match of this year is Hardy/Michaels which I have at ***3/4. I would say Triple H/Orton or Michaels/Cena, but neither had clean finishes. I still have them at ***3/4.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Andy just cock blocked me. You bastard. :$


LOL. I'm not sure if all this attention is good or bad...

Anyway, just watched the NOAH 2/21 6-man tag (team Kobashi v team Morishima) and holy fuck it was awesome! I'm going to watch it tomorrow again before I post my thoughts (if I have time before I go away for the weekend), but seriously, it fucking owns.

The Kobashi 6-man from 12 days later should be awesome as well. Hell, KENTA/Takayama exchanges are ****** (that's right, 6) on thier own.


----------



## KingCrash

Top TV match for me would be either Hardy/Michaels or Cage/Angle in a steel cage, both at ***3/4. Punk/Edge and MVP/Matt would be behind those at ***1/2 and ***1/4.


----------



## Kawada55

Saw Tanaka vs Sekimoto on youtube earlier today, defiently match of the year so far. Loved the german suplexs at the end. First on the ring apron,2nd one from the ring apron to the ring,3rd in the ring. I really loved the elbow exchanges at the end aswell, had me marking out like a motherfucker! It was just like watching a movie. The 3 stiff sliding elbows was the perfect way to end the match.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Seriously totally forgot about the Angle/Christian Steel Cage match. I was just thinking WWE. ***3/4 as well, but I though it was better than Hardy/Michaels.


----------



## dele

watts63 said:


> Can you upload that match?


WX/Ito vs Miyamoto/Sasaki (2/9)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/631lob


I personally prefer this deathmatch more:

Jaki Numazawa/MASADA vs Ito/Abdullah Kobayashi 1/2 (The ending (after the match) rocks the shit out of everything)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/13t9ck


----------



## Caponex75

Anyone got Strong/Stevens? I have been DYING to see that.


Pulse Glazer, what did you think of Strong/Romero?


----------



## McQueen

Andy3000 said:


> Okay, so:
> 
> *M.W, McQueen and Blasko* - you all have PMs. *dele*, if you decide you want the link anyway (even though you were there live, lucky prick) let me know. Just to reitterate, I want no part of any sex train.


You just want to get your hands on some Dick right?

Again I mean Dick Togo matches. Sorry bro, I had too.


----------



## KingKicks

Just finished quite a few matches.

*IWA MS April Bloodshowers 2008*
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/2-****3/4

*Gate of Generation 2008*
Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori - ****1/4

*Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE*
CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda - ****1/4
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - ****-****1/4

*Champions Carnival*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - ****-****1/4
*
NJPW 2/17/08*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles - ****
*IMO AJ's best singles match since 2006*


----------



## McQueen

Just finished Tanaka vs. Sekimoto myself. And while it was a very good match I wasn't super impressed by Sekimoto's performace as much as I was with Tanaka doing everything he possibly could (letting him dominate in test of strength, the triple Sliding D finish etc) to make Sekimoto look strong as a challenger.

I'd go *** 3/4 or **** tops myself.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen said:


> You just want to get your hands on some Dick right?
> 
> Again I mean Dick Togo matches. Sorry bro, I had too.


Every freakin' time I walk into that. Every freakin' time lol.

Just rewatched Sekimoto/Tanaka from 1/1 again. I think I'm bumping it down to **** as opposed to the ****1/4 I originally gave it. I'd still put it in my top ten for the year so far though (bearing in mind I haven't seen all that much puro).


Going to watch the 2/21 NOAH 6-man shortly. It was awesome on first viewing and it's one of those matches I can see liking even more on a secons watch.

*EDIT:* Just got done watching the 6-man I mentioned and DAMN it was awesome.

*Kobashi, Honda & Taniguchi v Sugiura, Marufuji & Morishima (NOAH, 2/21/08)*

OK, so this establishes a number of things, first of all is that Kenta Kobashi continues to be God. It's abvious from looking at the line-ups that Taniguchi is the designated job guy for this, and Kobashi's team is noticibly weaker than the team consisting of 3 of NOAH's top young stars. That doesn't stop the 3 punks from kicking the old man's bitch in every chance they though!

It starts off right from the bell with Sugiura going right after Kobashi, starting a forearm/chop war, pissing Kobashi off to the extent that he drags Sugi all aound the building, launching him into any wall in sight. Then, when all 6 guys get back to the ring and things settle down a little, Marufuji gets in there with Taniguchi. They're walking around, feeling each other out, and the Maru chops Kobashi who's on the apron, giving the coolest grin as if to say "Yeah, I did that."! It was so fucking beautiful. Kobashi's facial expression is priceless as well, giving the old "What the FUCK is this fool doing. Does he WANT me to fucking kill him?". I popped here. Then, they start feeling each other out some more, before Maru does it AGAIN! At this point the crowd are all "OOOOOOHHHH!", Kobashi's all "OK, just fucking wait..." and I'm all marking the fuck out.

This is actually how most of the match goes, with the 3 young guys picking on Kobashi until Kobashi manages to get a hold of one of them and beat the shit out of whoever it is (Marufuji takes an absolute pounding when Kobashi gets a hold of him for like, 10 minutes straight). The younger guys take the beating though because they know that 1 Kobashi beating up 3 of them while the other 2 members of him team help out, is nowhere near enough to get over on 3 younger guys beating the living shit out of Taniguchi while they bitch Kobashi in the process (Honda's just there). The punk team are so great at just cheap-shotting Kobashi at any opportunity. Marufuji is my personal favourite at this as he just seems to be able to pull off the most irritating shit (like chopping Kobashi! CHOPPING KENTA FUCKING KOBASHI!? REALLY!?) that you just KNOW Kobashi's going to get him back on. It's all fantastic.

The finishing stretch is superb as well, with the punks continueing to keep Kobashi and Honda out of the way until they can put away the weaker Taniguchi. It takes a while, though, and Taniguchi is great at getting the crowd behind him. Eventually, Maru manages to hit him with enough shit that there's no way Taniguchi can kick out, and Morishima has driven his ass into Kobashi enough times that Kobashi can't possibly make the save, so after enough persistance, Mori, Sugi and Maru pick up the win over team Kobashi. 

This is by far the best NOAH 6-man I've seen in a LONG time. I'd say it's probably the only MOTYC 6-man that the company's had in years. Maybe ever! It really is that good. Watch this now and see how much of a pest Naomuchi Marufuji can be. It's pretty freakin' sweet. *****1/2*


----------



## vivalabrave

Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tamon Honda & Shuhei Taniguchi NOAH 2/21 ****1/4 - ****1/2

Currently 5th on my MOTY list. 

Dick Marufuji = Awesomeness.


----------



## watts63

Andy3000 said:


> Every freakin' time I walk into that. Every freakin' time lol.
> 
> Just rewatched Sekimoto/Tanaka from 1/1 again. I think I'm bumping it down to **** as opposed to the ****1/4 I originally gave it. I'd still put it in my top ten for the year so far though (bearing in mind I haven't seen all that much puro).
> 
> 
> Going to watch the 2/21 NOAH 6-man shortly. It was awesome on first viewing and it's one of those matches I can see liking even more on a secons watch.
> 
> *EDIT:* Just got done watching the 6-man I mentioned and DAMN it was awesome.
> 
> *Kobashi, Honda & Taniguchi v Sugiura, Marufuji & Morishima (NOAH, 2/21/08)*
> 
> OK, so this establishes a number of things, first of all is that Kenta Kobashi continues to be God. It's abvious from looking at the line-ups that Taniguchi is the designated job guy for this, and Kobashi's team is noticibly weaker than the team consisting of 3 of NOAH's top young stars. That doesn't stop the 3 punks from kicking the old man's bitch in every chance they though!
> 
> It starts off right from the bell with Sugiura going right after Kobashi, starting a forearm/chop war, pissing Kobashi off to the extent that he drags Sugi all aound the building, launching him into any wall in sight. Then, when all 6 guys get back to the ring and things settle down a little, Marufuji gets in there with Taniguchi. They're walking around, feeling each other out, and the Maru chops Kobashi who's on the apron, giving the coolest grin as if to say "Yeah, I did that."! It was so fucking beautiful. Kobashi's facial expression is priceless as well, giving the old "What the FUCK is this fool doing. Does he WANT me to fucking kill him?". I popped here. Then, they start feeling each other out some more, before Maru does it AGAIN! At this point the crowd are all "OOOOOOHHHH!", Kobashi's all "OK, just fucking wait..." and I'm all marking the fuck out.
> 
> This is actually how most of the match goes, with the 3 young guys picking on Kobashi until Kobashi manages to get a hold of one of them and beat the shit out of whoever it is (Marufuji takes an absolute pounding when Kobashi gets a hold of him for like, 10 minutes straight). The younger guys take the beating though because they know that 1 Kobashi beating up 3 of them while the other 2 members of him team help out, is nowhere near enough to get over on 3 younger guys beating the living shit out of Taniguchi while they bitch Kobashi in the process (Honda's just there). The punk team are so great at just cheap-shotting Kobashi at any opportunity. Marufuji is my personal favourite at this as he just seems to be able to pull off the most irritating shit (like chopping Kobashi! CHOPPING KENTA FUCKING KOBASHI!? REALLY!?) that you just KNOW Kobashi's going to get him back on. It's all fantastic.
> 
> The finishing stretch is superb as well, with the punks continueing to keep Kobashi and Honda out of the way until they can put away the weaker Taniguchi. It takes a while, though, and Taniguchi is great at getting the crowd behind him. Eventually, Maru manages to hit him with enough shit that there's no way Taniguchi can kick out, and Morishima has driven his ass into Kobashi enough times that Kobashi can't possibly make the save, so after enough persistance, Mori, Sugi and Maru pick up the win over team Kobashi.
> 
> This is by far the best NOAH 6-man I've seen in a LONG time. I'd say it's probably the only MOTYC 6-man that the company's had in years. Maybe ever! It really is that good. Watch this now and see how much of a pest Naomuchi Marufuji can be. It's pretty freakin' sweet. *****1/2*


Now where can I see this match?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.


----------



## T-C

That 6 man deserves so much more pimping than it has been getting. I wrote something about it earlier in the thread, can't remember what it was though, truly great stuff.


----------



## McQueen

T-C is always pimpin'

Think I need to see this match, I downloaded it just too lazy to watch it.


----------



## Burning Sword

I saw that match and I have it around ****1/4. Great stuff indeed


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II*
El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino - ****1/2


----------



## ROH

Benjo™ said:


> *ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II*
> El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino - ****1/2


Good stuff, that DVD better be at home by the weekend.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I am buying DGC II just for that tag match. 

How did the near falls and the crowds reaction come off on DVD?


----------



## Kapone89

Lookin' forward to the roh wrestlemania weekend dvd's myself.
I have seen the 6-man mentioned above. It was a great match. I think i'm gonna
have another watch later.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/21/08*
Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tamon Honda & Shuhei Taniguchi ****1/4


----------



## KingKicks

Maxx Hero said:


> I am buying DGC II just for that tag match.
> 
> How did the near falls and the crowds reaction come off on DVD?


They came off great, and the crowd was awesome the entire night.

Looking forward to SOHIII.

Also

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. BxB Hulk and Shingo ****-****1/4

Roderick Strong, Davey Richards and Rocky Romero vs. Erick Stevens, Go Shiozaki and CIMA ****


----------



## -GP-

*Jimmy Jacobs vs. B.J. Whitmer: No Rope Barbed Wire match*

I don't know if it was the awesomeness of the "I Quit" match (or the fact that i watched Kudo/Toyoda yesterday) but it didn't really impress me.
Wasn't bad by any stretch, but it didn't really "get" me as much as their I Quit did.
Table not breaking *twice* was pretty epic though

I'll say ****


----------



## Saint Dick

Just watched Angle/Christian from Against All Odds again. Excellent back and forth contest. Shame it couldn't have a clean finish. ****1/4


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Supercard Of Honor III*

CIMA, Ryo Saito and Dragon Kid vs. Genki Horiguchi, Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino ****1/2-****3/4

Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries ****1/2

BxB Hulk and Shingo vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico ****1/4

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe ****-****1/4

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****-****1/4


----------



## Taroostyles

Damn, 5 ****+ matches on the same card? That's a hell of a show.


----------



## KingKicks

Taroostyles said:


> Damn, 5 ****+ matches on the same card? That's a hell of a show.


I'd recommend the show to any wrestling fan. The fact that those matches came 1 after another is incredible aswell.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

*Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage: Against All Odds 2008*

A good video package is shown before both competitors make their entrances to begin the match. The video then brings me back to the bad memory with just a few clips of how better the storyline could of been, if they just kept focused on the match instead of bringing another angle or for a better definition storyline into this situation as they had more focus on Tomko being his 'own man'. But I'll end my talk of that. Joe being the speical enforcer for this match was not too much of a big deal for myself. But I would have prefer him to wrestle an actual match on the show then this. Since he had only about close to two months then where he'd win the heavyweight title. It might of added more to his credibility during that point. Christain Cage comes out of the entrance way first before Angle with his wife Karen accompanying him. I can already get the clue of distractions before the match is under way. Terrible. Anyway, the two have a strong start as Angle clearly acts arrogant while getting the better of his opponent on the mat. Christian then gets the advantage after as he takes control when Angle gets way ahead of himself at each point and shows off by having such confidence. It goes this way until after Angle hits the ringpost and Cage goes for a leaping splash on the top to the outside of the ring. When they get back inside, Angle quickly takes the opportunity to yank Cage from the leg right off the top. Decent move to put over the heel quickly wanting the match to fully go his way again. On another subject, I think it's more enjoyable to hear a crowd that isn't always from the Impact Zone. Which is another thing that can separate a match like this from their previous like a month before at Final Resolution. Fast forward back to the match, outside of the ring the two wrestlers battle for a few seconds until Kurt pulls a spot that is more known out of his Wrestlemania 21 encounter against Shawn Michaels. Olympic Slam into the ringpost appears in TNA. Thing is both Michaels and Cage sell the spot entirely different. Michaels sold it like his back was shot. Christian basically sells it like he's exhausted. I suppose you can say that it's good enough either way. Cage tries fighting back in the ring now. But Angle puts a stop to that with a kick to the gut and powerbombs him right on the turnbuckle! Alright it's official, Angle wanted to kill him. After not getting the three count, Kurt puts the body scissors on Cage. Fine follow up after those spots. Cage goes for a fast pin attempt to get out but Angle then starts go for german suplexes next and hits two. A third is about to be hit then Cage reverses to do an overhead release suplex. Match is going well here and the crowd looks like they were enjoying it more as they continued. Mid-way in Christian goes up top again for the frogsplash but Kurt comes a runnin' to take him down, Cage fights him off to hit the frogsplash for the long two. Cage has Angle hanging by a thread more as they continue. Onto another point of the match where Angle goes for the dreaded "I try to go for a german off the apron but I never can get it off" spot. Cage fought it off and uses the ropes to his advantage to kick Angle but it's caught in the Ankle Lock with Angle pulling him straight in the middle of the ring until Christian gets to the ropes. I loved how that was done. Angle takes the straps off as he seeks Cage to do an Olympic Slam on and we get a counter by Cage who is then countered by Angle into an Ankle Lock position which is then countered into a roll up by Cage. This is where it's going by a great pace by the way. Angle then rakes the eyes to hit the Olympic Slam and still gets the two count. Angle grows frustrated as he can't find a way to put Cage away and it begins to show when they keep it going. Time to bust out the moonsault! He goes up the top rope to try but Cage moves out of the way before it hits him. Angle moonsault miss #4,682. Christian goes for yet another try up the top rope but gets caught for an Angle Slam from there by Angle for a close fall. Kurt gets upset and then lifts Christian up to talk trash straight in his face while he slaps him across the face a few times. Excellent. But it only woke Cage to hit the Unprettier on him for another big two count. I am sucked in the effort they are putting in this. Soon right after I see a referee bump. Here comes the trouble. Joe comes in to make the call when Cage has Angle in his own submission finisher. 

It's awesome enough until Karen gets pulled in and this becomes something that many other people see a lot of in TNA main events. There was at least one more sweet nearfall Cage did to Angle that got the crowd off it's feet right after the Karen involvement. Most of the rest of what I saw did more to take away from the match then just about anything. AJ trying to come in, the use of a crappy chair and the Tomko finish with interfering to take out Cage. I have more hate for these such things. I'll give one positive point and that is to say the end did put over more of a thought that Angle was a man who escaped with the title because of a lucky break by someone else. It was fitting for how his character came across here as a heel. 

Rank this match better then what they did at Final Resolution. Lacks a better finish like the last but there are just many areas of it, I would call an improvement over the other.


Match rating - ****

It's up as my favorite TNA match this year for the moment and a top MOTC of mine. 

Must catch up on a couple of more TNA & WWE shows in the year. I'm still too behind. :$


----------



## MrPaiMei

ZERO-ONE World Championship - Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto

This is my new MOTY, it's fucking incredible. Another stage in the Z1 vs. NJPW war, Tanaka, after successfully defending against Nakanishi in Z1, travels to NJPW to defend, in a rocking Korakuen Hall, against Koji Kanemoto. And it's blowaway stuff. They have a huge brawl all across the building, which is awesome in the scenic Korakuen Hall. From then on they just rail the hell outta each other, going blow for blow and not letting up. All in front of a packed, pumped crowd. The match ends with a great fucking sequence, hella heated. My #1 match of the year thus far, EVERYONE WATCH~! ****1/2

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OJT0ESVC


----------



## KeepItFresh

I totally wrote a review on the same match MrPaiMei a few pages ago. I gave it the same rating as well. Awesome match!

However it's not my current MOTY. That still goes to Michaels/Flair.


----------



## KingKicks

I was just wondering who everyone's current Wrestler of the year is?

At the moment it's Jimmy Jacobs for me with Austin Aries in a close second.


----------



## ROH

^ I don't think there cn be anyone despite Aries (outside of maybe lots of Puro I haven't watched ).


----------



## Maxx Hero

My personal WOTY is Kevin Steen. This year he has continued his tag team excellence from last year. Plus he has had some great singles matches against Nigel and Necro.

Second without a doubt is Jimmy Jacobs, and I think I would put Tyler Black in third.


----------



## watts63

Benjo™ said:


> I was just wondering who everyone's current Wrestler of the year is?
> 
> At the moment it's Jimmy Jacobs for me with Austin Aries in a close second.


Daisuke Sekimoto, hands down.


----------



## T-C

So far this year I've enjoyed watching Orton more than anyone.


----------



## dele

watts63 said:


> Daisuke Sekimoto, hands down.


Amen brother


----------



## -Mystery-

*No Way Out*
Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. Great Khali vs. Big Daddy V - ****
Randy Orton vs. John Cena - ****
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. Umaga vs. JBL - **** - ****1/4


----------



## Taroostyles

SD Chamber-***1/2
Orton/Cena-***1/4
Raw Chamber-****


----------



## dele

Taroostyles said:


> SD Chamber-***1/2
> Orton/Cena-***1/4
> Raw Chamber-****


That's more like it, even a little on the high side in my opinion.


----------



## -Destiny-

From memory...

Smackdown ECW - ***
Cena/Orton - ***3/4
Raw EC - ***1/2


----------



## KeepItFresh

SD Chamber-***1/2
Orton/Cena-***1/2
Raw Chamber-****1/4

There.


----------



## Kapone89

*02/21/08 NOAH*
*Kobashi, Honda & Taniguchi Vs. Marufuji, Sugiura & Morishima****1/4*


----------



## -Mystery-

I originally had the Smackdown Chamber and Orton/Cena at ***1/2 but they were perfectly booked, IMO which is why I bumped them both up 1/2*.


----------



## McQueen

KeepItFresh said:


> NJPW 4/13/08: NJPW v.s Zero1-Max, World Heavyweight Title Match- Masato Tanaka (c) v.s Koji Kanemoto ****1/2
> 
> This match was just awesome from the opening bell as each were trying to prove to the other that their promotion was superior. It started out with Kanemoto just kicking the shit Tanaka at every chance he could possibly get. They preceded to go outside the ring and brawl in the crowd where Tanaka could gain control in his own environment only to be bested by Kanemoto at this.
> 
> They got back to the ring and Kanemoto just started kicking the shit Tanaka again. Tanaka had comeback bursts every now that each lasting a little longer than the last, but only to be floored back to the mat by Kanemoto.
> 
> Tanaka has had enough of this and sets up a table on the outside to put Kanemoto through, but this backfires as well and he gets sent through it himself.
> 
> As they get back in the ring Kanemoto and Tanaka trade high impact moves. Kanemoto comes out on top in most cases. At one point he rolls right into an ankle lock looking to capture the victory, but it just isn't enough as Tanaka gets to the ropes. After more high impact moves are delivered by both parties Kanemoto locks in the ankle lock AGAIN this time surely for the win, right? NO! Even I thought Tanaka was going to tap out and I knew the results before hand. It was just freakin' epic!
> 
> Then after all this these two men get up and precede to thrown forarms at eachother. Tanaka comes out on the winning end, but not quite so fast a spinning back fist and of course a kick by Kanemoto send Tanaka back into the ropes who comes roaring back with a forarm to finally put Kanemoto away... However it's still not enough to end this match. They get back and Kanemoto is still fighting, but after another knockdown Tanaka comes flying at Kanemoto with another forarm. Tanaka makes the cover! NO! Kanemoto is able to kickout! What?! Tanaka flies against the ropes one more time with another forarm and this time it's over.
> 
> Thats what a call a damn match.





MrPaiMei said:


> ZERO-ONE World Championship - Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto
> 
> This is my new MOTY, it's fucking incredible. Another stage in the Z1 vs. NJPW war, Tanaka, after successfully defending against Nakanishi in Z1, travels to NJPW to defend, in a rocking Korakuen Hall, against Koji Kanemoto. And it's blowaway stuff. They have a huge brawl all across the building, which is awesome in the scenic Korakuen Hall. From then on they just rail the hell outta each other, going blow for blow and not letting up. All in front of a packed, pumped crowd. The match ends with a great fucking sequence, hella heated. My #1 match of the year thus far, EVERYONE WATCH~! ****1/2
> 
> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OJT0ESVC


*ZERO-ONE World Championship - Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto 4/13/08 - **** 1/2*

Felt the need to bump both these posts because frankly I just watched this match and was completely blown away.

They brought real heat to there Z-1/NJPW Interpromotional Fued. As stated a great brawl with a great finish sequence, especially Kanemoto locking in the Ankle Lock really made me think he had that one in the bag, and watching Tanaka forearm the shit out of Kanemoto was pretty epic. Haven't seen much in the way of matches this year but right now this is easily my MOTY.


----------



## Blasko

So, 08 seems to be the year of DANGAH?!


----------



## McQueen

DANGAN BOMB!

Yeah from what i've seen he's been pretty awesome this year. I now officially mark for the Sliding D.


----------



## dele

Sliding D = Greatness


----------



## -GP-

Dammit, so many things to watch!

Exams or MOTYCs...?
Degree or Wrestling...?


----------



## McQueen

You'll go further in life watching wrestling.


----------



## Yoey Bear

in my opinion the HBK vs. Flair Match was Match of the year so far. not because of the 5 star mat wrestling that wasn't there, but because of the sheer emotion from Flair, Michaels, The Announcers and the Crowd. what the end of the match signified.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*

What an amazing show!

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens *****-****1/4*

Holy shit, Strong's chest bleeding was crazy. I was wincing for damn near every chop. I loved how they just said fuck it and knocked out the ref at the same time lol and went ahead kicking each other's asses. Btw, does this even count as a match seeing as the bell never actually rang???


BxB Hulk/Shingo vs. El Generico/Steen ******

Started off kind of average but really started to pick up towards the end. Great showing by all 4 men.


Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries *****1/4*

Didn't enjoy it as much as the Rising above match but still great stuff. Hot crowd helped as they were numerous duel chants throughout.


CIMA, Dragon Kid and Ryo Saito vs. Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi and Genki Horiguchi *****1/2*

Damn this was fucking entertaining. Incredibly awesome fast paced action. If you blink you'll miss something special.


----------



## McQueen

Was Strong's bleeding chest as awesome as when Kobashi went nuts on Tenryu in '05 and busted his chest open in about 35 seconds? Because that was awesome.


----------



## - Styles -

McQueen said:


> Was Strong's bleeding chest as awesome as when Kobashi went nuts on Tenryu in '05 and busted his chest open in about 35 seconds? Because that was awesome.


Sadly I haven't seen that  but it was bleeding very soon after the match started. Blood was dripping off Strong's chest the whole match, twas great :agree:


----------



## Burning Sword

McQueen said:


> You'll go further in life watching wrestling.


I keep on trying to tell my mom that, but she doesn't listen.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ****-****1/4


----------



## Platt

McQueen said:


> Was Strong's bleeding chest as awesome as when Kobashi went nuts on Tenryu in '05 and busted his chest open in about 35 seconds? Because that was awesome.


Not seen that so can't compare but from memory of it live he was bleeding from the first chop. Can it technically be a MOTYC though since it wasn't a match.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/4


----------



## McQueen

*FIP Redefined

FIP World Championship: Erick Stevens (c) vs. Roderick Strong - **** 1/2*
_Wow just wow, what an awesome match. Great wrestling from the two, some wicked chop exchanges, intensity, hot crowd and a great angle for the finish which could have came off really corny totally worked. My #1 MOTY right now._


----------



## KingKicks

McQueen said:


> *FIP Redefined
> 
> FIP World Championship: Erick Stevens (c) vs. Roderick Strong - **** 1/2*
> _Wow just wow, what an awesome match. Great wrestling from the two, some wicked chop exchanges, intensity, hot crowd and a great angle for the finish which could have came off really corny totally worked. My #1 MOTY right now._


I loved that match so much. I can't wait to see the last man standing match.


----------



## McQueen

That fued is awesome, they haven't had a bad match yet.

Too bad Strong lacks any sort of mic skills because he is such a great worker I think he could go far.


----------



## watts63

Damn, I need to see that match!


----------



## McQueen

Watts that whole show was really damn good and that match makes it worth the buy alone. I enjoyed Redefined more than any ROH show i've seen in quite a while.


----------



## Platt

Really wish I hadn't put Redefined in the same order as my Mania pre-order  another fews weeks before it will come.


----------



## McQueen

Just be prepared for a lot of YRR (which isn't a problem for me since I really like them, especially Sal), and yeah its a good show. Necro/Nigel wasn't as great as it could have been though (see BOLA 2007). I think Necro was holding back due to Nigel's injuries or the fact Gabe didn't want Necro to injure him.


----------



## KingKicks

McQueen said:


> That fued is awesome, they haven't had a bad match yet.
> 
> Too bad Strong lacks any sort of mic skills because he is such a great worker I think he could go far.


It's become my favourite feud at the moment.

And with a Fight Without Honor and likely a big blowoff match in FIP (Hopefully a cage)still to come, it could end up being 1 of the best feuds all year.


----------



## -Mystery-

I've got Redefined sitting in my 360 ready to watch. Hopefully I'll get around to watching the entire show tomorrow but yeah, Stevens/Strong fucking rocked on that show. It's very and I mean very close behind Edge/Taker from Mania for my MOTY.

By the way Platt, I think you can consider Stevens/Strong from SOH III a MOTYC because while it wasn't a official match, it was still worked as if it were a match. I mean it lasted what 10-15 mins? It wasn't as if they just brawled to the back and that was that.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - I Quit - **** 1/4

Great hatred and drama drove this one over the top for me. Amazingly smart and inventive finish too. This was all kinds of awesome, overshadowed only by...

Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - Barbed Wire Match - **** 3/4

Unbelievable. Great storytelling, awesome spots, massive violence, blood galore, and a CRAZY fucking finish. Just absolute must watch stuff. I particularly like how they start off really hesitant because of the wire, then go out of the ring where they don't have to worry anymore and just go nuts on each other. Then when they return, they're so wrapped up in hatred they don't really worry about the wire anymore. Great storytelling in a simple way.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Two low end contenders from Without Remorse:

Generico vs. Claudio- Generico tries to slow CC down, wearing him out because he knows he can't match cc big move for big move this time (using a headlock). It works to an extent as Claudio can't get an advantage on big moves with a huge counter sequence early, but nor can Generico, so the use is limited. Claudio then decides to go to the knee to slow Generico's speed, so Generico is forced to use quick counter moves by timing Claudio's assault. Generico is being beaten about regardless between the power and leg attacks. 

The selling is awesome here, as is the reincorporation of stuff from earlier int he match and their first match. The Ricolla counters re-appearing at the end were truly awesome and the crowd ate Generico's near win at the end when he busted out a Fighting spirit yakuza, but ended up countered to a horsecollar as time ran out. ****

Strong vs. Nigel- Both men are about even at everything, from the mat to 
striking, though Strong is slightly more powerful and Nigel slightly better on the mat. Nigel works over Strong's arm for the Dungeon, while Strong goes after the back. They mix this up with strike wars, where both men are wanting to prove theirs are better, and Nigel's rebound answers just that question. ****


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

As a sort of aside:

Just realized, the barbed wire match getting ****3/4 places it as my fave match between those two AND my current MOTY. Go that.


----------



## .Skittles.

McQueen said:


> *ZERO-ONE World Championship - Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto 4/13/08 - **** 1/2*
> 
> Felt the need to bump both these posts because frankly I just watched this match and was completely blown away.
> 
> They brought real heat to there Z-1/NJPW Interpromotional Fued. As stated a great brawl with a great finish sequence, especially Kanemoto locking in the Ankle Lock really made me think he had that one in the bag, and *watching Tanaka forearm the shit out of Kanemoto was pretty epic*. Haven't seen much in the way of matches this year but right now this is easily my MOTY.


Bolded for truth.

Although Tanaka not selling the ankle after being in the Ankle Lock twice, for quite a while Let me down a little tbh. Seeing him running like a mother fucker on it afterwards an all.

Enjoyed it far more than i thought i would having never seen either guy or have any idea what the match was for/about


----------



## Platt

Jacobs/BJ NRBW is my current MOTYC just bumped it up to ****3/4 on second viewing just awesome stroytelling mixed with brutal violence.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Rewatched the NOAH 6-man that was getting pimped a couple pages back (by meyself included) and I'll just bump the rating down to ****1/4. Marufuji is still fucking AWESOME though.

And I REALLY want to see Kanemoto/Tanaka now as Kanemoto has been one of my favourites for a while, and Tanaka has become one of them so far this year.

And just to chime in on the wrestler of the year discussion, so far I'd have to go with either Sekimoto, Tanaka or Michaels. I need to watch a little more from the first 2 before I decide though.


----------



## - Styles -

Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - Barbed Wire Match - ***** 1/4*

Unbelievably brutal match, I might be in the minority, but I preferred the I Quit. Not to say this wasn't great but I'm just not too big on DM's. 

This was still some incredibly sick stuff. The corner spot with the BW stuck in JJ back was seriously fucked up! The Piledriver by Whitmer on the outside was crazy shit and the ending was pretty cool as well. Who the fuck makes these tables lol?

Non-match notes. Really liked the commentary I don't know who those guys are but they were really good. And the speech by Jacobs afterwards was a nice touch.


----------



## -GP-

AjStyles>GOD said:


> I might be in the minority, but I preferred the I Quit.


I preferred the "I Quit" as well. 

Not exactly sure why, i guess i'm really not that big on these sort of matches. 
I find the psychology of an I Quit match to be more appealing than the deathmatch one - it gives the ultraviolence more of a reason (apart from, you know, hurting each other as much as they can).
Again, not bad by any stretch, i have it at least on the 4* mark, if not 4+1/4, but it didn't get to me as match as the I Quit did.


----------



## - Styles -

^Yeah to me the I quit match seemed to have more emotion which helped me get into that one more.


----------



## .Skittles.

AjStyles>GOD said:


> Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - Barbed Wire Match - ***** 1/4*
> 
> Unbelievably brutal match, I might be in the minority, but I preferred the I Quit. Not to say this wasn't great but I'm just not too big on DM's.
> 
> This was still some incredibly sick stuff. The corner spot with the BW stuck in JJ back was seriously fucked up! The Piledriver by Whitmer on the outside was crazy shit and the ending was pretty cool as well. Who the fuck makes these tables lol?
> 
> Non-match notes. Really liked the commentary I don't know who those guys are but they were really good. And the speech by Jacobs afterwards was a nice touch.


I pretty much agree with this totally except i hated the commentary, my god it made me irritated at some points, for 1 i really wish they'd get a monitor or some set up where they can actually see the stuff during the match but i'll stop with the petty stuff.

Other than that it was a sick match, Jimmy was bleeding a ton to begin with and when the barb wire got stuck in his back....my god that was nasty.


----------



## - Styles -

.Skittles. said:


> I pretty much agree with this totally except i hated the commentary, my god it made me irritated at some points, for 1 i really wish they'd get a monitor or some set up where they can actually see the stuff during the match but i'll stop with the petty stuff.



I guess after listening to so much DW and Iron Mike Tenay it doesn't take much too impress me lol


----------



## T-C

My DW sense was tingling.

Don't diss.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Hah, DW sense lol.

Too bad you have a dirty one of THEM in your sig...


----------



## El Conquistador

Ben Jordan & Brandon Thomaselli were the clever duo on commentary, for everyone's information.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Just a quick question, but was Kingston on commentary for the I Quit match? I could've sworn it was, although I'm not entirely sure.


----------



## El Conquistador

Andy3000 said:


> Just a quick question, but was Kingston on commentary for the I Quit match? I could've sworn it was, although I'm not entirely sure.


Yeah, that was King. The play by play was Ben Jordan & Kingston held down the color role.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Cool, thought so. I thought he was pretty good as well, just for the record.


----------



## -GP-

Kingston is a bit of a gamble. Some times he rocks, some times he gets a bit annoying.


----------



## peep4life

ROH 6th Yr Anniversary Nigel vs Dragon ****1/2
Match told a fantastic story with Danielson not going for the head as promised and Nigel turning it on him and attacking the head. The crowd was amazing, and both performers were great as usual. Not as great as Unified or Driven, but my runer-up for MOTY so far behind Flair/Michaels.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Just ordered that show a little earlier, peep. Definitely looking forward to that and the Aries/Go match.


----------



## peep4life

Andy3000 said:


> Just ordered that show a little earlier, peep. Definitely looking forward to that and the Aries/Go match.


Aries/Go is awesome ****1/4 from me. The FIP title match is **** as well. Great show.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

The entire 6th Year show interests me quite a bit, to be honest. I ordered 3 shows today, and I had no doubt which ones before I even hit the website - 6th Anniversary, DGC II and SCoH III. Now I only have to wait a week til' they get here...

Anyway, just watched:

*Kenta Kobashi, KENTA & Tamon Honda v Yoshihiro Takayama, Takuma Sano & Atsushi Aoki (NOAH, 3/2/08)*

This was... disappointing, to be honest. I may have just been expecting too much after the magnificent 2/21 6-man, but this seemed flat compared to it. Aoki seemed to be going the dickhead Marufuji route, digging at Kobashi like a pain in the ass, but Maru just did it so much... better really, that the crowd were kinda meh to the whole deal. 

The Kobashi/Tak interactions were really good as always, and the match certainly wasn't bad or anything, but for most of it I found myself wanting KENTA/Tak interactions (which were awesome in this, by the way), and like a spoiled child, I sort of lost interest until I got what I wanted.

The last 5 minutes or so were really hot though and that drew me in a little more, but at that point I was too busy thinking ahead to the 4/27 rematch with Go on Takayama's team to be really interested in the hot finish. Still, despite all my lapses in concentration, I still found this to be very good - great even - but the 2/21 effort pretty much blew it out the water. ****3/4*


----------



## -GP-

Andy3000 said:


> I ordered 3 shows today, and I had no doubt which ones before I even hit the website - 6th Anniversary, DGC II and SCoH III.


That's my order too, but i'm not doing it until after exams, for obvious reasons...


----------



## Blasko

I'm thinking...

Supercard of Honor III 
DGC II
6YA
Plus, I'm pretty sure the Ballroom show will be out once I make this order...

B3G1F.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah, that's probably the best idea, Punk lol. I should probably have followed that philosophy last year. Although I just seemed to wing everything anyway 

I don't start college again until August so watching DVDs at work is my day mostly (I'm a lifeguard, btw, so ROH may not be so good if someone happens to be drowning).

I was actually tempted to use the B1G1F sale the last time, Blasko, but I really haven't been interested in ROH this year for the most part, and the 'Mania weekend wasn't released at that ponint anyway. 20% off was OK though.


----------



## El Conquistador

*ROH 03/29/08 - Muscle Outlawz vs. Typhoon*

Awe-inspiring performance from all six of these guys. As always, they started off by slowly working each other to only have the work rate pick up at the 15 minute mark or so. 

Now, theoretically, after pillmanizing each body part, you'd think that the story would be absolutely ripped apart when they started going 100% all out shortly after. I can't make any cases as to why you should forget about the mat work in the beginning stages of the match but we've come to expect these guys having a sprint paced match. If for one minute you didn't believe they'd completely abandon those tactics and turn to a higher work rate than you obviously don't have much knowledge when it comes to Dragon Gate.

Saito/Doi were the bruisers displaying their versatility with all sorts of maneuvers, Genki/CIMA were the vocal leaders of each group battling one another, and Dragon Kid/Yoshino was the war of the high flying, swift juniors. 

Lastly, you'd think that after two years of wrestling at the pace they have that these guys would run out of new combos to pull off. Of course they proved me wrong. Honestly, I can't think of a more innovative product than Dragon Gate right now.

Based on my enjoyment, I'd give the match five stars. It was my favorite of the three six man matches thus far and I was completely astonished by the performance put together from this guys. When all is said and done, there were a few noticeable sloppy exchanges that degraded the matches rating.

*****1/2*


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I'm thinking...
> 
> Supercard of Honor III
> DGC II
> 6YA
> Plus, I'm pretty sure the Ballroom show will be out once I make this order...
> 
> B3G1F.


wow, completely ignore 4/18 or 4/19. actually...4/19 is shit except MCMG vs. Briscoes, Kota vs. Generico, Steen vs. Nigel, and the 6 man tag....so yeah


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*No Rope Barbed Wire Death Match: BJ Whitmer v Jimmy Jacobs (IWA: MS April Blood Showers)*

Honestly, I don't really know where I stand on this exactly. I definitely preferred it to their "I Quit", but I'm still not feeling the "BJ/Jimmy match" (in the general sense, as in all of them). In saying that though, I'd put this as their best match.

Both guys take an insane amount of shit in this, and Jimmy Jacobs continues to get the point across that he probably won't live past 50! It's brutal as hell, yet I'm sure I don't love it as much as most. At this point I don't really have much else to say about it as I'm going to give it another watch, but I'm pretty sure this is the absolute best US death match I'll see this year (make of that what you will). *****1/4*


----------



## Sephiroth

Supercard of Honor 3
The Yoshino Show: Muscle Outlawz (Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi) vs. Typhoon (CIMA, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid) - ***** 1/2*

I'm sure PulseGlazer will have a nifty review of this match sometime soon, so I'll just go with that as my justification for this match being so awesome. Oh and Speed Muscle vs. MCMG on August 2nd, PLZ!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I honestly can't wait 'til I get that show in the mail. It definitely sounds like one of the best shows the company have done, maybe ever.

You get the full show Sephy or just the match itself via download?


----------



## Sephiroth

Andy3000 said:


> I honestly can't wait 'til I get that show in the mail. It definitely sounds like one of the best shows the company have done, maybe ever.
> 
> You get the full show Sephy or just the match itself via download?


i downloaded it from the media section. i won't be picking up the show (along with Dragon Gate Challenge 2) until 4/18 and 4/19 are released so i can get the buy 3, get 1 free


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Cool, I saw that it was uploaded yesterday but I thought I'd wait until I got the DVD anyway. It's pretty hard not to give in to temptation though, especially after it being as pimped as it is.

Just a quick question, but how good were the 4/18 and 19 shows anyway? I've been pretty much oblivious to what's been going on in ROH for the most part this year.


----------



## Bubz

the match i have enjoyed most this year has to be aries vs go or the fip 3 way from 6YA great matches, just ordered SOH3 and can not wait to see all the matches that have great MOTYC potential


----------



## Maxx Hero

Sephiroth said:


> Supercard of Honor 3
> The Yoshino Show: Muscle Outlawz (Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi) vs. Typhoon (CIMA, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid) - ***** 1/2*
> 
> I'm sure PulseGlazer will have a nifty review of this match sometime soon, so I'll just go with that as my justification for this match being so awesome. Oh and *Speed Muscle vs. MCMG* on August 2nd, PLZ!


That idea is win.

Also, why is it the Yoshino show, did he dominate and take his rightful place as the awsomeness that he is?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Maxx, it's the Yoshino show because EVERYTHING is the fuckin' Yoshino show! Speaking of which, I need to get to watching this year's Dragon Gate that I've missed. Meaning all of it...


----------



## Sephiroth

Watching it the first time, the last 4-5 minutes features Yoshino a lot, but after a second viewing, Doi and Dragon Kid are definitely MVPs of this match. 

Seriously, you guys remember the super duper hurricanrana from the first DG 6 man? Well...prepare to cream when you see what they have in store with that spot.

That's another thing I like about the yearly DG 6 man. They are always playing off their previous match somehow. I'm sure next year will have another 6 man, but I'd love to see DG use one of their other special tag matches like the 3 team tag match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

A 3 team tag match would quite literally cause the ROH fans that aren't familiar with DG (if that's at all possible anymore) to collectively jizz.

And I like how you never spoiled anything about the super hurricanrana spot, but make it seem awesome as well... your fucking killing me, man lol.

I'm looking forward to this year's 6man more than last's actually, not just because it seems to be getting better respenses, but because it's the same 6 guys as the original and, like you said, they're always playing off of the previous ones, meaning it should have some sweet throwbacks to 2006 (like the super hurricanrana spot you mentioned).

Anyway, just got done with this:

*Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka v Koji Kanemoto & Ryuske Taguchi (Zero-1, 3/2/08)*

Another great match involving Masato Tanaka in 2008 - shocker I know. I liked how all 4 guys had their roles established early in this one, with Tanaka being the Zero-1 ace leading the you underdog fighter (Hidaka) into battle against the enemy New Japan guys in Kanemoto and Taguchi. Kanemoto's obviously the captain of team NJ as well, with Taguchi being his understudy in the art of being a prick, yet is also clearly closer to his partner's level than Hidaka is to his.

So then, Kanemoto and Taguchi spend the majority of the match beating Hidaka to shit with kicks and general dickheaded-ness, drawing some geat heat from the very pro Zero-1 crowd in the process (Hidaka gets sympathy from the crowd almost as well as Yuko Miyamoto in this). They also do a fair bit of brawling which establishes that both teams really don't like each other, seeing as how some guy bashing another's head into a brick wall gets that point across pretty effectively. 

The Tanaka/Koji exchanges are great as well, bringing the hatered every time, really making me want to see their April match even more. Hidaka just has excellent periods with both NJ guys though, gaining, like I mentioned above, some great crowd support as the underdog fighting for his promotion.

The last 5 minutes or so were red hot with both teams going balls to the wall for a pin, leading to some great near-falls and near-submissions. My favourite of those false finishes was Hidaka's leg lock on Taguchi. Taguchi sold the move flawlessly actually, making it look like he really was about to tap, putting Hidaka's submission over great. Taguchi wouldn't tap of course (thanks to Koji's save), but the fiery Zero-1 underdog had weakened him enough so that the ace could finish him off, naling him with a Sliding D for the 3 count, setting up the big Tanaka/Kanemoto match for the next month. Great stuff. ******


----------



## Maxx Hero

The three team matches are off the hook for sure. 

Maybe a new tradition could be a Narniwa (SP?) Elimination style match like at the end of the JAM cup. Maybe mix DG and some US guys, have yourself a crazy match. They could put it at DG challenge or make the weekend a tripleshot like the first DG weekend.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Maxx Hero said:


> *The three team matches are off the hook for sure.*
> 
> Maybe a new tradition could be a Narniwa (SP?) Elimination style match like at the end of the JAM cup. Maybe mix DG and some US guys, have yourself a crazy match. They could put it at DG challenge or make the weekend a tripleshot like the first DG weekend.


I'm guessing you saw the 3v3v3 match from DG Infinity #65, I think anyway, that happened in June? My DG MOTY for sure and in my top 3 overall for last year.

A Naniwa Style Elimination match would be sweet as well, kinda like what they did at All-Star Extravaganza 3 except, obviously, add eliminations.

Speaking of DG, I re-watched the 1/14 GHC Jr. Tag earlier between Speed Muscle and Shingo/Hulk - fantastic match, if a little overkill city. I've given my thoughts on this alread, as have numerous other members, so I won't go into any more detail, but I will bump my rating up from **** to ****1/4. Top 10 for the year so far in my book. Can't wait to re-watch the 3/20 tag match soon.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Ya I can't wait to get that DVD with the 1/14 match on it. I need to raise $800 still for a philosophy institute I am attending, and then after that I am gonna get all the DG from this year.

Ya, the 3v3v3 was June 30, 2007. That was my #4 last year and my #7 all time favorite match.


----------



## Bubz

the first DG 6 man from SOH is one of my fav matches ever, loved every minute of it, how does this one compare? some live reports said it surpassed the first one, also people said the same about aries/nigel 2


----------



## watts63

*FIP Redefined*
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## peep4life

FIP Redefined
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/2
Wow, just brutal. While it starts off slow with the mandatory indy mat wrestling, it kicks into high gear and is awesome. They chop the shit out of each other, telling a great story in the process. My second favorite match this year besides Flair/Michaels.


----------



## KingKicks

peep4life said:


> FIP Redefined
> Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/2
> Wow, just brutal. While it starts off slow with the mandatory indy mat wrestling, it kicks into high gear and is awesome. They chop the shit out of each other, telling a great story in the process. My second favorite match this year besides Flair/Michaels.


The cut on Stevens head in the match was incredible, looks like the edge of the belt sliced his his head open.


----------



## -GP-

Guess i should really see this match at some point, huh...?


----------



## Maxx Hero

Same, I need to catch up on that fued as all I have seen of it was in the six man at DGCII.


----------



## ROH

GP_Punk said:


> Guess i should really see this match at some point, huh...?


I'm praying for someone to up it


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

ROH said:


> I'm praying for someone to up it


Hah, me too. I even requested it and everything ...


----------



## SecondCity

*FIP Redefined*
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong: ****1/2

My favorite match this year.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I watched the ROH Dragon Gate Six MAn From Super Card Of Honor. I say ****1/4-****1/2. Overall I would say that I enjoyed the ****1/4 Briscoe match more.

I feel that this years match had no psychology besides the psychology of everyone destroying my boy Yoshino, which was not cool.

Also, the Doi 555 is a super dumb move, esspecially from the top rope when Dragon Kid pretty much takes it wrong and then no sells. Like seriously I think the move would work if people would take it and not just land on their knees.


----------



## freeway777

Andy3000 said:


> Mystery, I'm with ya on 'Taker/Edge. I thought their 'Mania match was a bit better, but I really dug the Backlash effort. I have it at **** too, and you pretty much summed up my thoughts on it better than I could. So, thanks, I guess .


THX HAHA


----------



## PulseGlazer

SecondCity said:


> *FIP Redefined*
> Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong: ****1/2
> 
> My favorite match this year.


The reason so many love this is underkill, which is to say they take the weapons and such and make less of them mean more.


----------



## KingCrash

FIP Redefined - Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - ****1/2

Second favorite match of the year behind Jacobs/Whitmer I-Quit


----------



## ROH

Current MOTY so far:

*ROH Supercard of Honor 3: Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ****3/4*.

Gonna give it a rewatch tomorrow (as that rating is kinda loose), as well as watch the DG 6 man


----------



## PulseGlazer

ROH said:


> Current MOTY so far:
> 
> *ROH Supercard of Honor 3: Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ****3/4*.
> 
> Gonna give it a rewatch tomorrow (as that rating is kinda loose), as well as watch the DG 6 man


I'm 1/4* lower due to a less than super-hot finish, but it's likely my MOTY so far as well.


----------



## dele

My current MOTY:

Sekimoto vs Tanaka 4/28/08 ****5/8


----------



## ROH

*ROH Supercard of Honor 3*:

CIMA, Saito and Dragon Kid vs Genki and Muscle Outlaws - *****1/2*. It was really great but it felt WAY too much like the original one at times (although they played off some stuff from the original which was really good).

BxB Hulk and Shingo vs Kel Steenerico - *****1/2*. This just scraped the rating it has. Incredible match, and could have been even better with more Steenerico nearfalls.


----------



## McQueen

ROH said:


> *ROH Supercard of Honor 3*:
> BxB Hulk and Shingo vs Kel Steenerico - *****1/2*. This just scraped the rating it has. Incredible match, and could have been even better with more Steenerico nearfalls.


ROH overuses nearfalls as it is but I can't argue with this rating too much.


----------



## STALKER

Just watch the TNA PPV here my ratings for the match worth mentioning
TNA title match *** 1/2
TerrorDome- **** 
Knockout match *** 1/2


----------



## -Destiny-

TNA title match **3/4
TerrorDome- ***
Knockout match - *1/2


----------



## Taroostyles

None of the matches from Sacrifice were MOTYC's IMO, the main event was the closest which I have at like ***1/2-***3/4


----------



## STALKER

I liked the terrorDome match maybe i like Spot monkey style matches. :$


----------



## McQueen

The only M.O.T.Y.C.'s TNA gives me are Migraine of the Year Canadates.

Wouldn't mind seeing the Cage/Angle match AIW keeps talking about though.


----------



## -GP-

5 days after Sacrifice, and the only image i have left in my mind is the iMPACT! Zone fans being way too "smart" for their own good while Roxxy was shaved.

Not a single match stuck in my head

EDIT: :lmao at McQueen's post


----------



## T-C

GP_Punk said:


> 5 days after Sacrifice, and the only image i have left in my mind is the iMPACT! Zone fans being way too "smart" for their own good while Roxxy was shaved.


What did they do?


----------



## McQueen

Roxxy is too beautiful to be bald. I was sad when I heard about that.


----------



## -GP-

T-C said:


> What did they do?


The face was getting shaved after the heels screwed her over. 

Probably the best booking TNA has done in ages, with Roxxy going insanely over, the pornstars getting massive heat, and the iMPACT! Zone fans chanted "Fire Russo" (when i believe he hasn't got much to do with the women's division there anyway)

Women's hair matches are always hard to book as the crowds always turn on the bookers in the end, but this was booked to perfection imo


----------



## T-C

TNA fans have just proven to me why they are worse than ROHbots. Chants are for the most parts useless in pro wrestling.


----------



## -GP-

T-C said:


> TNA fans have just proven to me why they are worse than ROHbots. Chants are for the most parts useless in pro wrestling.


You've probably seen it, but i love this post:



Katsuyori Murakami said:


> When it comes to fans, It's laughable that TNA fans would look down their noses at ROH fans over anything. Particularly because TNA fans are ROHbots-lite. Before TNA fans truly became their own beast, there was this huge cross section of TNA/ROH fans from when TNA was actually decent and ROH fans watched it. ROH fans took ROHy stuff like slightly annoying chants and started doing it at TNA shows. The section of TNA's audience who wern't smart enough to know how to make proper use of that sort of stuff picked up on it and started abusing all these stupid smarky chants and cheering and booing totally arbitrarily because they thought it was cool. Then when ROH fans stopped watching TNA when it became really bad, TNA marks were still acting like retarded ROHbot mini-me's and it just grew into being an entire fanbase of that shit. On crack. Just rife, out of control stupidity at live shows. At one point I half expected to watch a TNA show and hear the crowd chant "ARE WE AS COOL AS ROH OR ECW FANS YET?"
> 
> And ironic that TNA fans are getting on the case of ROH fans for being snobby smarky assholes when TNA fans used to do (and still do) the same thing to WWE fans.



On a side note, i never fully understood why we want to "Fire Russo"...
Half the fun of watching TNA from time to time is to laugh at Russo's booking!
How would i keep myself entertained without making jokes about things on poles...


----------



## T-C

That Murakami guy is a top man.


----------



## Taroostyles

Isn't that the post where at the end he says that both ROH and TNA fans suck and that they should stop watching them and start watching Battlearts?


----------



## steiners

2007 Rumble was 10 times better than this one.


----------



## T-C

Taroostyles said:


> Isn't that the post where at the end he says that both ROH and TNA fans suck and that they should stop watching them and start watching Battlearts?


I remember BattleArts being mentioned, yea.

But what's your point?


----------



## Taroostyles

I wasn't sure why it wasn't on there.


----------



## -GP-

Because i cut it out to keep it to the subject, along with some other stuff before that

We were talking about TNA, not ROH


----------



## Taroostyles

Oh I wasn't trying to talk about ROH, I was trying to make sure that was the guy who said people should stop watching both promotions to watch BattleArts.


----------



## steiners

Steiner-Joe-Kaz (Sacrifice 2008)


----------



## Maxx Hero

Steiners, you should give reasoning or explanations for why you are suggesting these matches or why the 07 Rumble was better than this years (which I very much so agree on).


----------



## watts63

My List of MOTYCs (Still Need To See Backlash)

*BJW 1/2/08
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4

BJW 4/28/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/2

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda ****1/2

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2/08
Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Suguira vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2

FIP Redefined
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4-****1/2

ZERO1-MAX Ichii Senshin GW Special
Masato Tanaka & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/21/08
Kenta Kobashi, Shuhei Taniguchi & Tamon Honda vs. Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/4

BJW 2/9/08
Mammoth Sasaki vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/4

IWA-MS 500th Show
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4

ROH Proving Ground
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Edge vs. Undertaker ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Gran Akuma & Icarus vs. Solider & Fire Ant ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
Human Tornado vs. Candice LaRae ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ****-****1/4

PWG Pearl Habra
Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #80
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma & Yasushi Kanda vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk, YAMATO, Cyber Kong & Shinobu ****-****1/4

Kensuke Office 3/28/08
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Magnitude Kishiwada ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & Ryusuke Taguchi ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ****

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom II
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****

CHIKARA King of Trios '08 Night Three
Eddie Kingston, Joker & Sabian vs. Delirous, Hallowicked & Helios ****

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka ****

IWA-MS April Bloodshowers '08
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

DG The Gate of Generation
SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

NJPW 4/13/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher ****

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi ****

PWG iDia de los Dangerous!
Human Tornado vs. Necro Butcher ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 3
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Human Tornado vs. SHINGO, Austin Aries, Jack Evans & Cyber Kong *****​


----------



## F5uits

A lot of people are starting to get down on the Dragon Gate six man from this years Supercard, but really I don't see how it's not better than last years. Yes, some spots were repeated, but they all worked and the style of the match and how it flowed better really made it seem fresh. It's certainly cleaner than last years and I think it almost approaches 2006. I can't decide if I would have that or Nigel/Aries as MOTY.


----------



## McQueen

I liked this years 6 man better than last years easy. But I can't stand Mochizuki and SHINGO didn't really work as well as I had hoped. I should rewatch all three of them tbh.

My MOTN was Nigel/Aries by the way.


----------



## KingKicks

*Current MOTYC List*

*-Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/2-****3/4

-Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/2-****3/4

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****1/2-****3/4

-BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - ****1/2-****3/4

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Rising Above - ****1/2

-Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - FIP Redefined - ****1/2

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/2

-El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****1/2

-Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****1/4-****1/2

-The Undertaker vs. Edge - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/4-****1/2

-Money In The Bank IV - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/4

-Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH Breakout - ****1/4

-Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori - DG Gate Of Generation 08 - ****1/4

-Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/4

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ROH Without Remorse - ****1/4

-Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries - ROH Proving Ground - ****1/4

-Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage - TNA Against All Odds - ****1/4

-Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****1/4

-Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. SHINGO and BxB Hulk - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****-****1/4

-Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****1/4

-KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****-****1/4

-Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - Champions Carnival - ****-****1/4

-Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles - NJPW 2/17/08 - ****

-Raw Elimination Chamber - WWE No Way Out 2008 - ****

-CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Dragon Kid vs. Yasushi Kanda - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****

-BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS 500th Show - ****

-Ultimate Endurance - ROH Without Remorse - ****

-Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

-Lethal Lockdown - TNA Lockdown 2008 - ****

-Ultimate Endurance - ROH Proving Ground - ****

-Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Six Sides Of Steel)- 3/6 Impact - ****

-Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - 2/11 Raw - ****

-Roderick Strong vs. Necro Butcher vs. Erick Stevens - 6th Anniversary Show - ***3/4-****

-Nigel McGuiness and Go Shiozaki vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH Double Feature - ***3/4-*****

Still need to watch some 2008 PWG shows.


----------



## Saint Dick

Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Judgment Day - ****1/4


----------



## Taroostyles

Jericho/HBK-****(But I could easily see bumping it up a little bit on a 2nd watch)


----------



## - Styles -

*Y2J vs HBK - **** - ****1/4*

I want to see these 2 in a Ironman or LMS next. They work so well off each other, really enjoyable match.


----------



## casper-21

MY MOTY 2008
1. Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary show
2. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Genesis 
2bis. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 28.04.08 (Z-1 WHT) 
4. CIMA, Dragon Kid & Ryo Saito vs Naruki Doi, Masato yoshino & Genki Horiguhi - ROH SOH 3
5. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH Breakout
6. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk vs Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - Dragon Gate 15.01.08 (GHC tag jr)
7. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 02.01.08 (BJW tag)
8. Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH SOH3 (ROH WHT)
9. Masato Tanaka & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato - Zero-1 29.04.08
10. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Briscoes vs Jack Evans & Jigsaw vs B.J.Whitmer & Brent Albright - ROH Proving Ground (ROH tag)
11. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Gate Of Generation (GHC tag jr)
12. KENTA vs Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive
13. CIMA, Go Shiozaki & Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero - ROH DGC2
14. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW WKingdom (IWGP)
15. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs Ikuto Hidaka & Dick Togo - Zero-1 Genesis (NWA Int lw tag)


----------



## -Destiny-

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Triple H vs. Randy Orton - ***3/4
Undertaker vs. Edge - ***1/2


----------



## RealTeenwolf

These are my 5 so far in order 1-5.

Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs Kevin Steen and El generico - Dragon gate Challenge II
Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - Breakout
Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - 6th Anniversary Show
Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - 6th Anniversary Show
Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens vs Necro Butcher - 6th Anniversary Show


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Got 6th Anniversary earlier today, although I've only watched the first 2 matches, and I'm definitely psyched for Aries/Go, Dragon/Nigel and now Roderick/Necro/Stevens.

Still need to see Danielson/Black, but I can't see myself buying Breakout any time soon.


----------



## RealTeenwolf

Andy3000 said:


> Got 6th Anniversary earlier today, although I've only watched the first 2 matches, and I'm definitely psyched for Aries/Go, Dragon/Nigel and now Roderick/Necro/Stevens.
> 
> Still need to see Danielson/Black, but I can't see myself buying Breakout any time soon.


Breakout is a pretty good show. danielson Black is good but not as good as everyone is saying. All the shows have been good this year, 6th Anniversary is excellent. In the FIP 3-way Necro starts throwing these huge right hands and Lenny Leonard calls them perfectly!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Oh I wasn't implying that I wouldn't buy it bacause I don't think it'd be any good or that, it's just that I'm not really into the product in general as much as I was last year, and I can only really see myself buying the top teir shows for the most part (6th Ann., DGC II and Supercard III were my first order of the year, arriving today).

I'll try and find some of the other highly pimped matches on download or whatever, but like I said, Breakout won't be at the top of my shopping list in the near future.


----------



## El Conquistador

*+Wrestlemania 24:* Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair
*+IWA-MS 500th Show:* Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (I Quit)
*+RoH Dragon Gate Challenge II:* Yoshino/Doi/Horiguchi vs. Dragon Kid/CIMA/Saito
*+FIP Redefined:* Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong
*+NJPW 2/17:* Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles

Those are my top five MOTYC's thus far. I refuse to give ratings right now but if I had to choose a MOTY right this instant, it would be one of the middle three aforementioned matches.


----------



## RealTeenwolf

Andy3000 said:


> Oh I wasn't implying that I wouldn't buy it bacause I don't think it'd be any good or that, it's just that I'm not really into the product in general as much as I was last year, and I can only really see myself buying the top teir shows for the most part (6th Ann., DGC II and Supercard III were my first order of the year, arriving today).
> 
> I'll try and find some of the other highly pimped matches on download or whatever, but like I said, Breakout won't be at the top of my shopping list in the near future.


no i know! the shows you have are all so good, the Hammerstein show will be better on DVD than it was live, at least i think it will, the next shows released have the Ibushi stuff and some MCMG's on there as well, but i agree, stick to the 'A' shows if you're not too into it!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I can actually see myself getting the 4/18 and 19 shows if I'm feeling the 3 I got today. It's just that I just don't have the urge to pick up every release like I did last year. In saying that though, after only watching 2 matches from 6th Ann. today, I feel the ROH spirit coming back lol. Can't wait to get to the 'Mania weekend especially.

Most of my money goes on booze, trainers and DVDs anyway, plus I'm not supposed to drink over my new painkillers, so some more ROH DVDs might be on the agenda soon


----------



## RealTeenwolf

yeah i get ya. my only advice to you is, dont drink, take pain killers and watch a jimmy jacobs promo all at the same time, it wont end well!!

enjoy your dvd's, im sure you will.

during the NRC match at DG2 watch out for Davey Richards throw his ball/ass sweat at the front row fans. the man is a genius.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

RealTeenwolf said:


> *yeah i get ya. my only advice to you is, dont drink, take pain killers and watch a jimmy jacobs promo all at the same time, it wont end well!!*
> 
> enjoy your dvd's, im sure you will.
> 
> during the NRC match at DG2 watch out for Davey Richards throw his ball/ass sweat at the front row fans. the man is a genius.


Duly noted lol.

And that Davey part sounds sick and heel awesomeness all at the same time.


----------



## -Mystery-

*Edge vs. Undertaker - Judgment Day*
These two have awesome chemistry together and this match was no different. The story heading into the match was perfect. We all saw that Taker could beat Edge with the gogoplata but could he beat Edge without it? The storytelling and psychology in the match were exceptional. Taker attacking Edge's arm made perfect sense because it was an attempt to try and weaken the effectiveness of the spear. Next, I thought Edge working over Taker's legs was perfect because in the previous two matches he had attacked Taker's back and wasn't able to win. So, it only made sense for Edge to try and attack another body part to see if he can obtain a different result. Lastly, Edge countering Taker's big moves once again was brilliant. I can't stress enough how important that is to the psychology of the match because it'd make no sense for Edge to be able to counter Taker's big moves in two different makes then seemingly forget how. Another thing I really liked about the match was it wasn't like the other two matches, it was completely different. For example the pacing was much faster than the past matches and there wasn't a slow start to the match much like there was in the past two matches. Finally, I didn't see a big problem with the finish. Would've liked to have seen Edge get a win over Taker but the finish managed to keep both men strong heading into what I believe is the feud ender at One Night Stand. The match wasn't as good as their Mania match but I would put it somewhere on par with their Backlash match. Overall ****


----------



## - Styles -

Stevens vs. Strong: FIP Redefined - *****1/4-****1/2*

Really great match. Started off with some back and forth mat wrestling which was fine and then once the chop showdown happened it's was just awesome from that point on. Insanely hard chops and forearms, one chop so brutal it knocked Stevens the fuck out lol. Really liked the accidental belt shot, where Strong pleaded with the ref to not dq him, and then later proceeded to bash Stevens upside his head with a chair as soon as he saw the ref down.


----------



## -Mystery-

*Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - Judgment Day*
Easily everyone's most anticipated match on the card and the match delivered in a big way. The match started off fast and furious with counter after counter and I liked Jericho attacking Michaels' leg. Perhaps Jericho wanted to actually injure Michaels' leg to somehow teach him a lesson for lying or maybe he thought that there was a bit of truth to Michaels' leg being somewhat hurt. Either way it made perfect sense for him to go after the leg. The psychology and storytelling in the match was great. Michaels attacked Jericho's arm to try and hamper the effectiveness of the Walls of Jericho and Jericho attacked the ribs to try and slow down Michaels and limit his offense. Not to mention the selling of both men was top notch in the match. The superkick on the apron was a damn cool spot and I loved Jericho's possum tactic to bait Michaels into the Codebreaker. Finally, I really liked the finishing sequence, everything just flowed smoothly. The pacing was perfect and the crowd was hot as well. Overall ****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Really looking forward to seeing both of theose Judgment Day matches, Mystery. I ended up downloading most of it but the torrents fucked up so I'm going to have to catch it another way.

Anyway, just watch Danielson/Black from Breakout. Awesome match, and I'd have it in my top 10 for the year so far pretty comfortably. I'll give it a rewatch tomorrow when I'm not sooped up on painkillers before I rate it, but I can see myself going about ****1/4 on it, **** at the lowest.


----------



## Blasko

Kawada vs. Tanahashi. 

******

Very, very fun match from start to finish. Tanahashi being the PERFECT cocky young lion and Kawada being the grizzled veteran. I REALLY wanted to give this **** 1/4, but Kawada falls apart after a botched set of kicks. Then Kawada's age started to show because the pace of the match was pretty fast. Ah well, Kawada is till fricken awesome.


----------



## Burning Sword

Glad to see you finally came around to the match Blasko. It's been awhile since I seen it, but I enjoyed Tanahashi/Kawada.


----------



## LL4E

Some thoughts on some matches that Ive seen this year.

Tanaka/Kanemoto

Well this was quite hate filled. The ankle lock had me thinking the match was over. I hope this match leads to some really great Z1/NJ matches, NAGATA/TANAKA!!!!!

Misawa/Morishima

I thought this was really great. Misawa turned in what is probably one of his final great matches. Also, he did the right thing by finally putting over a young guy. Now so long as the reign goes somewhere, NOAH may have a future.

Stevens/Strong Redefined

Was not as impressed with this match as much as apparently all that have seen it (one guy said it was 5*). Still, very very very heavy hits going on in this match. I crigned at the chop to the face. Good match, still not as good as some put it.

Tanahashi/Kawada

I liked this more than a lot of people did. Very fun match. Tanahashi is a GREAT cocky young guy, and Kawada is Kawada. Would have liked to have seen an actual winner, but you know. Still, very good imo.

Flair/HBK

This is my second MOTY. HOLY SHIT, the storytelling, selling, ending, EVERYTHING. I may have to bump this to #1 later. *bows to Flair* great career and a great way to go out. "Im sorry, I love you" that has to be the greatest WM moment ever.

Nigel/Aries Rising Above

This is my current MOTY (going on the Meltzer calender). Full of hard hitting action and just great stuff all around. Aries really lit a fire under his ass for this one. My favorite spot in the match is when Aries goes to drop kick him on the ground for about the 3rd time and Nigel blocks it again and makes fun of him, so instead of going back to a dropkick or a headlock he just soccer kicks him square in the face, great stuff.


Anyway, I dont do star ratings. Just thought Id post my overall thoughts on some highly praised matches from this year.


----------



## IC

LL4E said:


> Some thoughts on some matches that Ive seen this year.
> 
> Tanaka/Kanemoto
> 
> Well this was quite hate filled. The ankle lock had me thinking the match was over. I hope this match leads to some really great Z1/NJ matches, NAGATA/TANAKA!!!!!
> 
> Misawa/Morishima
> 
> I thought this was really great. Misawa turned in what is probably one of his final great matches. Also, he did the right thing by finally putting over a young guy. Now so long as the reign goes somewhere, NOAH may have a future.
> 
> Stevens/Strong Redefined
> 
> Was not as impressed with this match as much as apparently all that have seen it (one guy said it was 5*). Still, very very very heavy hits going on in this match. I crigned at the chop to the face. Good match, still not as good as some put it.
> 
> Tanahashi/Kawada
> 
> I liked this more than a lot of people did. Very fun match. Tanahashi is a GREAT cocky young guy, and Kawada is Kawada. Would have liked to have seen an actual winner, but you know. Still, very good imo.
> 
> Flair/HBK
> 
> This is my second MOTY. HOLY SHIT, the storytelling, selling, ending, EVERYTHING. I may have to bump this to #1 later. *bows to Flair* great career and a great way to go out. "Im sorry, I love you" that has to be the greatest WM moment ever.
> 
> Nigel/Aries Rising Above
> 
> This is my current MOTY (*going on the Meltzer calender*). Full of hard hitting action and just great stuff all around. Aries really lit a fire under his ass for this one. My favorite spot in the match is when Aries goes to drop kick him on the ground for about the 3rd time and Nigel blocks it again and makes fun of him, so instead of going back to a dropkick or a headlock he just soccer kicks him square in the face, great stuff.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I dont do star ratings. Just thought Id post my overall thoughts on some highly praised matches from this year.


Those are pretty good ratings, I agree on the matches I've seen. What is the Meltzer calendar I've not heard the term before?


----------



## PulseGlazer

Melzter's MOTYC's go from Dec to Dec under the assumption that anything non-WWE or TNA from December will be overlooked due to availability otherwise.


----------



## Kawada55

watts63 said:


> PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One
> Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2
> 
> Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2/08
> Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Suguira vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2
> 
> Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/21/08
> Kenta Kobashi, Shuhei Taniguchi & Tamon Honda vs. Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/4
> 
> PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
> CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4
> 
> PWG Pearl Habra
> Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4
> 
> ROH 6th Anniversary Show
> Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ****
> 
> ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka
> 
> NJPW 4/13/08
> Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto ****
> 
> [/b][/center]


Does anyone know where I can find these matches?


----------



## IC

I watched a couple of matches today and thought I'd post some thoughts.

*FIP Redefined - Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens*
This was a very good match. The opening chain mat wrestling was some of the best I've seen recently, though I felt it went on just a bit too long. Once the match was allowed to continue they really cranked up the pace. Psychology of Strong continuing to pick Stevens apart as soon as the ref let them was good and there was some real stiff aggression shown. Glad to see a solid chair shot having some impact for the finish and I'd look forward to a rematch. Negative points - I thought they could have sold the effects of the earlier mat stuff better later on and a couple of hand to hand exchanges looked a bit sloppy before the shot with the belt (which I wasn't a huge fan of - unique though).
*****1/2*

*ROH Rising Above - Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries*
This was a perfectly balanced match throughout. Loved Nigel's attitude taunting Aries and getting a rise out of the crowd. Their battle ebbed and flowed very nicely. There were some excellent spots and false finishes. Great finish exploding out of nowhere. The only faults I'd find were that they kicked out of each other's finishers too many times and it seemed to lack a little bit in the storytelling department. Still, McGuinness holding the title, covered in blood is an enduring image of a wrestling classic.
*****1/2 - ****3/4*, but just closer to ****1/2 I think.

*IWA 500th Show - Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer - I Quit Match*
This match was fucking savage. _Fucking savage_. Whitmer was brutal and unyielding with the Kendo stick and they told a story of pure hatred and aggression, especially when [I didn't catch his name] insisted on the match continuing. I thought Jacobs sold his injuries and the story very well throughout and proved himself the better man. One criticism is that I didn't like them fighting with those spikes, I just don't think it feels right and Jacobs can use the cane as effectively. Side note, Jimmy Jacobs can cut one impressive promo. 
*****1/4 - ****1/2*. I'm leaning towards ****1/2.


----------



## -GP-

Right, i've had this for ages now but only just got round to watching it (Uni exams and all)

*BJW 4/28/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto *
ZERO 1 MAX World Heavyweight Title

F'N amazing and my new MOTY.
Tanaka goes after the arm and tries to block every single suplex, while Sekimoto just tries to beat the living daylights out of him.

Only bit that (sort of) hurts it is Sekimoto pretty much forgetting about his arm selling at some point when they were still in the story part.
You know, end of the story part, but before they went into the "lets hit everything we have and screw selling as long as we do it fast enough" bit which throws minor selling out the window by default.

That's the only minor complain.
Past that, finish is off the charts, and the look on Sekimoto's face after Tanaka kicks out of two back-to-back dead weight Germans is so priceless it should be in one of those Mastercard ads.

*****1/2-3/4*


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Punk, never read the last paragraph for fear of spoilers, but I should have that match watched pretty soon as I'm upto the beginning of April for Big Japan and, suffice to say, I'm super psyched for that match. 

I'm with you one Aries/Nigel, Instant Classic, although once again I seem to be lower on the "I Quit" than most which I have at ****. I preferred their NRBW match to this one, but both prove Jimmy Jacobs is off his fucking head.

Working my way through 6th Anniversary show (I'd probably have it all watched by now if I didn't keep getting sidetracked by Bob Backlund awesomeness) and just got done with Aries/Go - top 5 so far for me this year for sure. I love the way Aries manages to avoid Go's chops as he knows they'll likely rip his chest apart, ducking and dodging them thinking he's got Go scouted, but then he gets caught with a fucking nailer as he chrges at him after all the aforementioned ducking and dodging. It's obvious that the chops are Shiozaki's main weapon in the match and he keeps going back to them when he needs to get out of any bad situation. 

Overall I'd say the first half of the match was good, but the second half was full-blown awesome! I'll probably rewatch it again tomorrow to see if my rating sticks, but at this point I can't see even Nigel/Danilson topping this for MOTN.


----------



## RealTeenwolf

anything from ROH Supercard Of Honor 3!

Yoshin/Doi vs Kevin Steen and El Generico from Dragon Gate Challenge 2 is just unbeleiveable ****1/2


----------



## McQueen

Bob Backlund for ROH Champion... Right Andy!


----------



## Sephiroth

All Japan Pro Wrestling (6/9/95)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada - *******

I know this is the 2008 MOTYC Thread...but I just finished rewatching it for the billionth time and I can honestly say...this match transcends any concept of "time" and is the default match of the year EVERY YEAR.

Edit: I mean, if McQueen can post random crap in this thread...surely a non-mod has the same right.


----------



## El Conquistador

Sephiroth said:


> All Japan Pro Wrestling (6/9/95)
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada - *******
> 
> I know this is the 2008 MOTYC Thread...but I just finished rewatching it for the billionth time and I can honestly say...this match transcends any concept of "time" and is the default match of the year EVERY YEAR.
> 
> Edit: I mean, if McQueen can post random crap in this thread...*surely a non-mod has the same right.*


Wrong.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen said:


> Bob Backlund for ROH Champion... Right Andy!


Definitely. I think Danielson's as close as we'll get though.

And Sephy, if you're implying that Backlund for ROH champ is random crap.... then fuck off 

Joke, hooking me up with Danielson/Black means I can't shoot you by default.


----------



## IC

Just watched the Whitmer/Jacobs barbed wire match. Again it was a really brutal match. I felt the action was better than the "I Quit" but the storytelling wasn't as good. Probably the best barbed wire match I've seen (I've only seen about 4 so take that for what it's worth). It had a remarkable quality at times of being truly hard to watch yet impossible to look away from. Shame about the finish - I'd say it's just a whisper below their other match but both hovering near to the *****1/2* mark.


----------



## Sephiroth

Andy3000 said:


> Definitely. I think Danielson's as close as we'll get though.
> 
> And Sephy, if you're implying that Backlund for ROH champ is random crap.... then fuck off
> 
> Joke, hooking me up with Danielson/Black means I can't shoot you by default.


i was just pointing out that a MOD was going off the beaten path in this topic. 

...and I'll be honest, if Backlund as ROH champ means he'll randomly come to the ring and give people chickenwings, i'm all for it.


----------



## McQueen

From now on Sephy you need to get what you post cleared, so PM everything you plan to post to Watts63 and wait till he gives you permission to speak your mind.

Bob Backlund is in fact too awesome and that is all.


----------



## sirdilznik

I finally got around to watching the *Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP - Redefined* match that people have been talking so much about. Excellent match. A bit too long for my liking, exemplified by the fact that when the count out was going on I actually wanted Erick to get counted out because I just wanted it to end, and going into the match I wanted Erick to win. If the match had hit 5th gear toward the end then it could have kept my attention longer but every time there was a burst it would then slow right back down. Also it lacked a really good submission struggle. The Boston Crab was the closest, but Erick got to the ropes too soon and the second time he "almost tapped" was cheesy because he was right next to the ropes. I thoroughly enjoyed the technical stuff at the beginning. The chop-fests were brutally stiff, as expected (though that doesn't do as much for me as some other people). I actually enjoyed the ending a lot. I thought it was a good way for Roderick to get a heel victory and keep Erick looking strong. I wasn't too much into the belt shot on Erick. I understand the story and it was good, but what it did was slow the match down right about the time I wanted it to pick up tempo. These are just nitpicks more than actual complaints. Overall a really excellent match. Probably the 3rd or 4th most enjoyable match I've seen this year. *Final score ****1/4 - ****1/2*


----------



## Saint Dick

*WWE*
1. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 24 - ****3/4
2. Edge vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
3. MITB IV - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4

*TNA*
1. Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - Against All Odds - ****1/4
2. Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe - Lockdown - ****
3. Lethal Lockdown - Lockdown - ****


----------



## RealTeenwolf

Ownage™;5769312 said:


> *WWE*
> 1. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 24 - ****3/4
> 2. Edge vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
> 3. MITB IV - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
> 
> *TNA*
> 1. Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - Against All Odds - ****1/4
> 2. Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe - Lockdown - ****
> 3. Lethal Lockdown - Lockdown - ****


i think The Flair Michaels match has been grosley overrated by yourself.

*im adding Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries from ROH Supercard Of Honor to the list. Nearly perfect*.


----------



## ROH

RealTeenwolf said:


> i think The Flair Michaels match has been grosley overrated by yourself.
> 
> *im adding Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries from ROH Supercard Of Honor to the list. Nearly perfect*.


If you think that's overrating the Flair/HBK match, check this thread around the time of WM. You'll have a heart attack 

Agreed on the Nigel/Aries match, obviously.


----------



## Blasko

ROH said:


> I foyu think that's overrating the Flaiur/HBK match, check this thread around the time of WM. You'll have a heart attack


 ....

The funk?


----------



## ROH

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> ....
> 
> The funk?


Ok, that was bad I must say...


----------



## volcanic

*ROH*
*ROH World Title match - McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2*
Dragon Gate Challenge match - CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2

*P.W. NOAH*
GHC World Title match - Misawa vs. Morishima - 03/02/08 - **** 1/4
KENTA, Ishimori, Saito vs. The Briscoes, Chris Hero - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - ****
Marufuji, Sugiura, Morishima vs Kobashi, Honda, Taniguchi - ****

*WWE*
Career-Threatening match - Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - ****1/4

*NJPW*
Styles vs. Tanahashi - 2/17/08 - ****
Tanahashi, Mutoh vs Kawada, Kea - 03/01/08 - ****

still need to see: Dragon Gate Challenge, Sixth Anniversary, KENTA vs. Naruki Doi, and some other ROH/NOAH/DG matches.


----------



## RealTeenwolf

volcanic said:


> *ROH*
> *ROH World Title match - McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2*
> Dragon Gate Challenge match - CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2
> 
> *P.W. NOAH*
> GHC World Title match - Misawa vs. Morishima - 03/02/08 - **** 1/4
> KENTA, Ishimori, Saito vs. The Briscoes, Chris Hero - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - ****
> Marufuji, Sugiura, Morishima vs Kobashi, Honda, Taniguchi - ****
> 
> *WWE*
> Career-Threatening match - Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - ****1/4
> 
> *NJPW*
> Styles vs. Tanahashi - 2/17/08 - ****
> Tanahashi, Mutoh vs Kawada, Kea - 03/01/08 - ****
> 
> still need to see: Dragon Gate Challenge, Sixth Anniversary, KENTA vs. Naruki Doi, and some other ROH/NOAH/DG matches.



what about Kurt Angles NJPW matches?


----------



## McQueen

Angle's match with Nagata sucked.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> Angle's match with Nagata sucked.


Holy shit, something negative NOT directed at Chikara.

What a breakthrough!


----------



## McQueen

It was quasi aimed at TNA, which is nothing new either, but now that you do mension it CHIKARA does in fact suck balls.


----------



## volcanic

RealTeenwolf said:


> what about Kurt Angles NJPW matches?


haven't seen 'em. Angle hasn't impressed me much over the past few years (then again, I dont really watch TNA), but I'll look into 'em.

*KENTA vs. Naruki Do* from 05/05/08 is a good one too. ****


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

*Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 24*

There is an interview where Flair is asked what is his gameplan for the match just before it. His quick answer was "To be the man, wooooooo!" Pretty short and (sweet) to the point. I absolutely love the first few minutes of this match. Flair and Michaels wrestle pretty even until HBK slaps Flair in the face after a push from Flair. Then Flair himself looks a bit stunned at first with what Shawn did. It gave a great impression I thought on Shawn showing that he will try and not hold back on Flair. Nature Boy bleeds a little in the mouth. We get a heated chop battle in the corner. Yes! Wait, why I am marking for this again? I give part of the blame on McQueen's need to speak and show Japan matches to me. But yeah, Flair gets the better of Michaels with a kick to the face. Crowd at the show was even more pumped for the match as of this point, not to say they were exactly quiet since the beginning. Seconds later Michaels goes up on the top rope, only for Flair to throw him off to hit the mat. Then Flair goes up after and Michaels tries for the same, but Flair gives him a quick punch and then does a crossbody! Pop for that one. After the thousands of times Flair has failed on the top to the small amount of times he actually was successful. I could only want that to happen. Michaels pushes Flair to the outside from behind and gives him a baseball slide to boot. Most wild spot of the match I see comes where HBK goes for a moonsault off the ring apron to Flair only miss and crash on the announce table! Edge of it didn't even break. That not only looked crazy to do but it looked to hurt like hell for Shawn. Believe this is a great touch though for some work Nature Boy puts on Michaels ribs for that time to take control of the match in his favor. Decent follow up if nothing else. I liked that Flair busted out the double underhook suplex during this period. Rare for that to happen during a Ric Flair match. Well, you could say that at least here. There is a chop exchange between the two once more after. What's even better for me with this was Flair getting all "woo" reactions from the crowd. But Michaels would get some more negative crowd boos when he would strike. I say it added more to the match as they kept going. HBK later then backdrops Flair to the outside and does another moonsault off the top to hit Flair this time. Both still get back in the ring before the ten count. Michaels hits the flying forearm only seconds later and does the typical HBK routine comeback. Inverted atomic drop, punches, top rope elbow, etc. This match has a very solid pace. HBK starts stomping the mat in the corner, it's time for some Sweet Chin Music. But wait, all of a sudden Michaels totally hesitates when he raised his foot and stops himself. Flair then yanks the Heartbreak Kid to the mat and puts on the figure four leg lock! This was just excellent in every way you can image. You have this putting over the fact it was hard for Michaels to actually put away Flair here so simple like other opponents of his. But it shows Flair continuing to do what he has to do in order to pick up the big victory. Michaels then turns over the hold and reverse it shortly but Flair gets out. We get more chops out of both men. Flair then just takes Michaels down with a headlock takeover and after this I notice a bridge attempt that didn't quite take off. Shame. But both give the impression of looking tired after that covers what happen as passable in my opinion. A sunset flip comes by HBK that only gets two slaps on the mat. Nature Boy then whips Shawn into the corner then clips the legs. Flair went for the figure four again here but Michaels countered that to a small package for a close fall. Michaels tired for an enzuigiri but Ric gets out of the way and locks in the figure four for another time now. So far, so good. HBK tries to go for the ropes but has a hard time getting to it for a while. Flair even rolls through after Michaels tries to turn it over. He then finally reaches the ropes. These guys just have the crowd in the palm of their hands now. We get big boos for HBK. Incredible how easily Shawn is made out to be the bad guy here for continuing. Flair kicks HBK's leg some for a smart follow up after the big spot and did a strut. Then bam! Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere. 

Michaels covers but only still gets the two count. Huge pop for Flair getting out of that. HBK goes to the corner and seems to want to hit another. But Flair doesn't get up quickly and Michaels yells at Flair to get up. Then during this point has to pick up Flair. Low blow. Flair using dirty tactics as always to get his way in my book can only be described as awesome. He only gets the two count for it though. Michaels then gets in the inverted version of his Figure Four. Ross and Lawler's comments on Michaels doing the hold for myself was priceless as they were so against him winning with it. Flair makes it to the ropes but gets pulls back some and then gives thumb to the eye on Michaels. After that a roll up by Flair but only for the two count. These guys are now giving chopfest to each other's chest while on their knees. Epic. They continue while getting up and the Nature Boy seems to be getting better of Michaels. Superkick out of nowhere for the second straight time. But instead of going for the pin. Michaels gets up and want to go for another. I feel this incorporates well with the story for not doing such. Michaels doesn't just want to go for a simple pin here. Very dramatic ending with HBK giving perfect words before putting an end to the match and winning. Flair was already crying before the pin. Oh wow. We get a moment after showing the end of an era.


****1/2. 

That was just about the best of everything that I needed to see for a wrestling match. Drama, some good wrestling and a fine story told all rolled into one. Takes the spot as my favorite match of the year currently. Edge/Taker was pretty good watching also. But I found this one to be more unique and better out of the show.


----------



## Goku

KENTA vs. Naruki was great ****1/2+*

...Oh and Flair/Michaels is *******


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*ROH World Title Match: Nigel McGuinness v Bryan Danielson (6th Anniversary Show)*

I loved this big time! Nigel is fuckign awesome as a heel and the way he makes Danielson promise not to go for the head (liked the spot where Dragon could've elbowed the shit out of Nigel, but opted against it), only to use his head as a weapon to fuck up Dragon's eye was pretty great. I also liked how Danielson would try and put Nigel away with various submissions so he didn't need to go after the head. I still prefer HBK/Flair, but this is easily one of the best matches I've seen this year. I thought after seeing Aries/Go and loving it so much that this one wouldn't top it, but after one watch I think it might have. I'll watch it again anyway, but either way, this was fantastic. *****1/2*

Also thought Roderick/Stevens/Necro from the same show was pretty great as well. About **** for a rating, but it was just super fun all the way. I thought Strong was actually going to hit a Tiger Driver '91 at the end (both times), but I'm pretty sure he just couldn't get Necro up for a regular Gibson Driver.


----------



## IC

volcanic said:


> haven't seen 'em. Angle hasn't impressed me much over the past few years (then again, I dont really watch TNA), but I'll look into 'em.


If you're looking, I'd say Angle has had at least 2 MOTYCs with Christian Cage (Against All Odds, Final Resolution and Cage match on Impact) and, while I remember it splitting opinions a lot here, Angle vs Samoa Joe at Lockdown is worth a viewing too.

I have Flair/Michaels at ****½ - ****¾ now, it lost its magic after watching it again recently.


----------



## Legend

Andy3000 said:


> *ROH World Title Match: Nigel McGuinness v Bryan Danielson (6th Anniversary Show)*
> 
> I loved this big time! Nigel is fuckign awesome as a heel and the way he makes Danielson promise not to go for the head (liked the spot where Dragon could've elbowed the shit out of Nigel, but opted against it), only to use his head as a weapon to fuck up Dragon's eye was pretty great. I also liked how Danielson would try and put Nigel away with various submissions so he didn't need to go after the head. I still prefer HBK/Flair, but this is easily one of the best matches I've seen this year. I thought after seeing Aries/Go and loving it so much that this one wouldn't top it, but after one watch I think it might have. I'll watch it again anyway, but either way, this was fantastic. *****1/2*


100% agree with this, Andy. I absolutely LOVED this match on a first viewing, and I've watched it a couple of times too. Nigel completely owned this show, starting him and Dragon having that great promo to the moment in the match when he just socked the ref. "You wankers wanted your title match ... well you got your title match" = BEST. LINE. EVER. Ha ha, I loved it. Nigel as a heel is THE MAN, but I loved Danielson's 'Code of Honor' routine too, and the way Nigel just completely bitchslapped it. The crowd was insane, especially when Nigel just ripped and beat the shit out of Bryan's eye. Just awesome. I give it **** 1/2 too. Brilliant, brilliant match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

There were points where I was trying to hear the snide remarks Nigel was giving the crowd, but there was no way anybody was hearing half of it as the crowd were just rabid to see him get killed. I marked at the part where he nailed the ref', mainly because I had no idea how the match went, other than Nigel retaining and turning full-blown heel, and as soon as he did it I though it was the perfect way to get the crowd to fully turn on him. Danielson was great as well, no doubt, but Nigel was, like you said, the fucking man here.


----------



## vivalabrave

Andy3000 said:


> Nigel was, like you said, the fucking man here.


I agree with this. Very different match from their other ones, but not in a bad way.


----------



## -GP-

*ROH 6th Anniversary*
Aries - Go Shiozaki - ****1/4-1/2
Nigel - Danielson - ****1/2
FIP match may also just about make it at 4*

Very fun show overall btw.

Aries and Go did a terrific job. Loved the early bits with Aries avoiding the chops like hell. 

Nigel and Danielson are pretty much incapable of having a bad match with each other...Nigel as a full blown heel is terrific.
They hated him so much, that if Danielson won the match it'd probably cause a riot.

Not my favourite of their matches (by quite a margin) and not MOTY as far as i'm concerned, but still a great match.

Also, Strong pretty much killing Necro twice was quite the spectacle...


----------



## -Mystery-

*6th Anniversary Show*
Danielson/Nigel - ****1/2 - ****3/4
Aries/Go - ****1/4
Stevens/Strong/Necro - ****


----------



## KingKicks

GP_Punk said:


> *ROH 6th Anniversary*
> Aries - Go Shiozaki - ****1/4-1/2
> Nigel - Danielson - ****1/2
> FIP match may also just about make it at 4*
> 
> Very fun show overall btw.
> 
> Aries and Go did a terrific job. Loved the early bits with Aries avoiding the chops like hell.
> 
> *Nigel and Danielson are pretty much incapable of having a bad match with each other...*Nigel as a full blown heel is terrific.
> They hated him so much, that if Danielson won the match it'd probably cause a riot.
> 
> Not my favourite of their matches (by quite a margin) and not MOTY as far as i'm concerned, but still a great match.
> 
> Also, Strong pretty much killing Necro twice was quite the spectacle...


Agreed.

Of the 7 matches they have had, i'm sure i've rated everyone of them ****+.


----------



## ROH

GP_Punk said:


> Also, Strong pretty much killing Necro twice was quite the spectacle...


I was watching that with some (non-wrestling fan) friends and we were laughing like Hell at the finish there. Good times.


----------



## Y²

Got around to watching Shingo/BxB Hulk vs KENTA/Ishimori for the second time today.

Definetly a candidate imo, great matchup with four of Japans best Junior Heavyweights. More depth then you would expect with 2 big time flyers in there, some amazing powerhouse stuff from KENTA and Shingo aswell.
****1/4


----------



## gusbarba

-Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - 

-Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito - ROH Supercard Of Honor III -

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ROH 6th Anniversary Show 

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Rising Above 

-Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Supercard Of Honor III

-Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show 

-Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori - DG Gate Of Generation 08 

-Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH Supercard Of Honor III

-Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage - TNA Against All Odds - ****1/4

-KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****-****1/4

-Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - Champions Carnival - ****-****1/4

-Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles - NJPW 2/17/08 - ****

-CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Dragon Kid vs. Yasushi Kanda - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****

-Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

-Lethal Lockdown - TNA Lockdown 2008 - ****

-Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Six Sides Of Steel)- 3/6 Impact - ****


----------



## peep4life

Dragon Gate Challenge II
El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino ****1/2

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. SHINGO and BxB Hulk ****

Both were great tag matches, with the Steenerico match slightly outshining the other match. My current favorite tag of the year.


----------



## -GP-

*ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II*
Steenerico vs. Doi/Yoshino - ****1/2
Hulk/Shingo vs. Jimmy/Black - ****-****1/4
No Remorse vs. Stevens/Go/CIMA - just makes ****

Another very strong and very fun show.

Steen and Generico put on one hell of a show with Speed Muscle. 

Tyler Black is very impressive.

Main Event was a bit inconsistent, with some very good bits but also some pretty average stuff. 

On to SOH III....


----------



## Taroostyles

Just saw the Whitmer/Jacobs "I Quit" match, pretty brutal stuff for sure.

I would say **** or so on first viewing, that double spike sequence was intense stuff.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Take No Prisoners*

*Philadelphia Street Fight*
Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Necro Butcher and Joey Matthews ****3/4-*****
-Necro with a shovel was fucking awesome :lmao

Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries ******1/4
-Can these 2 not have a ****+ match?
*
ROH World Title Match*
Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black - ******1/2

-This match was even more amazing then i thought it was going to be. Tyler had everything against him in the match, he had already fought a match earlier in the night, he was thrown into the ringpost before the bell causing him to have an injured shoulder the entire match and Nigel had much more big match experience then him but somehow the heart of Tyler nearly managed to get him the victory. Even knowing the result beforehand, somehow i still felt Tyler was going to win and alot of credit to Nigel in this because his heel greatness really added to the match. I didn't think anything was going to top Strong/Stevens from Redefined (except for another match between the 2) as my current MOTY but this has managed to.


----------



## IC

*My MOTYC List so far...*

*WWE*

No Way Out - Raw Elimination Chamber - *****¼*
WrestleMania 24 - Money In The Bank 5 - ******
WrestleMania 24 - Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - *****½ - ****¾*
WrestleMania 24 - The Undertaker vs Edge - *****½*
Backlash - Fatal Four Way - ***** - ****¼*
Judgement Day - Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - *****¼*

*TNA*

Final Resolution - Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - ***** - ****¼*
Against All Odds - Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - *****¼ - ****½*
Lockdown - Lethal Lockdown - *****¼*
Lockdown - Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe - *****¼ - ****½*
Sacrifice - TerrorDome - ******

*Indys*

FIP - Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - *****½*
ROH - Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - *****½*
IWA - Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer (I Quit) - *****¼*
IWA - Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer (Barbed Wire) - *****¼*

I haven't watched a lot of Indy stuff or anything from Japan/Mexico but I'll probably catch up after exams.


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH "Take No Prisoners"
Philly Street Fight: The Briscoes vs. AOTF - *DUD (I just hated the fuck out of this, sorry)*
Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries - ***** 1/4*
ROH World Title: Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black - ***** 1/2*


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH - Take No Prisoners*

Aires/Danielson - *****1/4*
Great back and forth technical wrestling showcase. These 2 work so well together its ridiculous. 



Nigel/Black - ******

Now if it were the just the last 10 minutes of each match Nigel/Black would've destroyed Aires/Danielson but I just wasn't into the match at all in the beginning. It was either Nigel dominating the whole time or just talking shit to the fans.(yes I know he's a heel but it was a bit much.) I don't see the big deal about this one at all. Now granted the ending was incredible. So many near falls and it looked like there was nothing he could do to finish Black off, but as a whole I think it lacked somewhat.

edited: re-watched - took off 1/4 off Danielson/Aries.


----------



## -GP-

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*

Wow, what a show!

*Strong - Stevens*
Not really a match, but who cares! Strong busting his chest open after two (2) chops was f'n insane
*****-****1/4*

*Briscoes - AotF*
The pre-match brawl was not really my cup of tea, but they still managed to have a proper match once back in the ring and pulled off a brilliant finish
*****-****1/4* 

*Steen & Generico - BxB & Shingo*
Tag team greatness right here
*****1/2*

*Nigel - Aries*
I haven't seen the new PPV yet (maybe tonight) but even without that match, Nigel is having one hell of a year...
They played off the Rising Above match and did a really good job
I really thought Aries would pull it off when he hit the splash and considering i knew he wouldn't win, that's a big deal!
I'll have to rewatch the Rising above match before i can say if it beats it, but it's definitely up there with it
*****1/2*

*DG 6-man*
Your typical DG tag here. All sorts of weird and woderful stuff to end the show with a bang
*****1/4-****1/2*

So yeah, add in Delirious-Go and you've got a phenomenal show from top to bottom!


----------



## T-C

Nigel is the man, still very underrated.


----------



## KingKicks

GP_Punk said:


> *ROH Supercard of Honor III*
> 
> Wow, what a show!
> 
> *Strong - Stevens*
> Not really a match, but who cares! Strong busting his chest open after two (2) chops was f'n insane
> *****-****1/4*
> 
> *Briscoes - AotF*
> The pre-match brawl was not really my cup of tea, but they still managed to have a proper match once back in the ring and pulled off a brilliant finish
> *****-****1/4*
> 
> *Steen & Generico - BxB & Shingo*
> Tag team greatness right here
> *****1/2*
> 
> *Nigel - Aries*
> I haven't seen the new PPV yet (maybe tonight) but even without that match, Nigel is having one hell of a year...
> They played off the Rising Above match and did a really good job
> I really thought Aries would pull it off when he hit the splash and considering i knew he wouldn't win, that's a big deal!
> I'll have to rewatch the Rising above match before i can say if it beats it, but it's definitely up there with it
> *****1/2*
> 
> *DG 6-man*
> Your typical DG tag here. All sorts of weird and woderful stuff to end the show with a bang
> *****1/4-****1/2*
> 
> So yeah, add in Delirious-Go and you've got a phenomenal show from top to bottom!


Good to see you enjoyed it.

Nigel has been the man this year. I've got him in 5 ****+ matches this year so far.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Guess I should really get to watching the Wrestlemania weekend shows then, right? I'm actually not entirely sure why I haven't yet.

Guess I'll also give Take No Prisoners a download as well. Black's one of my faovurites in ROH and a main event with Nigel should be (and apparently is) geat.


----------



## watts63

*ROH Take No Prisoners*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ****1/2


----------



## peep4life

Damn, the way everyone is rating Black/Nigel it makes me want to order the PPV and not wait for the DVD, Damn ROH and their PPVs.


----------



## Spartanlax

Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black- ****1/2 or ****3/4

First match in a long time to give me a goosebump/tingling sensation. Loved it.


----------



## McQueen

T-C said:


> Nigel is the man, still very underrated.


I'd say right now Nigel is a top contender for being Wrestler of the Year as far as what i've seen.


----------



## peep4life

McQueen said:


> I'd say right now Nigel is a top contender for being Wrestler of the Year as far as what i've seen.


Nigel's heel turn has been awesome and besides maybe Aries its hard to question him as wrestler of the year so far.


----------



## KingKicks

peep4life said:


> Nigel's heel turn has been awesome and besides maybe Aries its hard to question him as wrestler of the year so far.


atm I've got Black, Jacobs and Aries above Nigel in terms of great matches but Nigel has been my personal favourite wrestler this year.


----------



## peep4life

Benjo™ said:


> atm I've got Black, Jacobs and Aries above Nigel in terms of great matches but Nigel has been my personal favourite wrestler this year.


Black has been great, but I don't think he's had as good as year as Nigel. As for Jimmy, he might be close, considering his matches with BJ are so good as well as his ROH stuff. On another note,

Edge/Undertaker One Night Stand 
****


----------



## KingCrash

I'd probably go with Aries as WOTY right now over Nigel and Jacobs. I can think of only one bad match Aries has been in this year and he's had at least four ****+ matches (Doing this from memory). But I might add Danielson to the list since most everyone we're talking about has had a good match with him this year.

One Night Stand
HBK/Batista Stretcher - ***1/2
Edge/Taker TLC - ****


----------



## Y²

Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black- ****1/2

The crowd was so good, both wrestlers were great. Even knowing the ending I was still on the Edge of my seat.


----------



## WillTheBloody

*ROH: Take No Prisoners*

Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - *****3/4*
Absolutely fabulous. This was damn near perfect and it was even better because I got to share it with my dad, who said it best when he said, "This is why I loved wrestling long ago. It's not the moves you see...it's the way what you see moves you." I am officially a Tyler Black fan now.

Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ******
Dragged at times, but it was solid overall, and their matwork together may be the best on Earth right now. I'd love to see another title match between these two.

The Briscoes vs Joey Matthews and The Necro Butcher - ****
One star for the snow shovel, one for Mark's dive. That's all I got.


----------



## IC

*One Night Stand Ratings*

*HBK vs Batista* - This was pretty good as stretcher matches go. Some decent psychology between the two and they had some decent in-ring action besides the stretcher stuff. It was nice to see them actually fulfill the premise of the match with Batista literally battering Michaels until he could push him up the ramp. HBK put over Batista big time with the 3 power moves at the end. The WrestleMania throwback was cool too. It will probably end up furthering the story, but I don't feel Y2J helped the match. Actually saying that, I preferred his appearance to having HBK randomly fall off twice for false finishes. But with the way Jericho has been pushed as a tweener in this feud, suddenly helping HBK who he still has a grudge with didn't make much sense.
****¾*

*TLC VII: The Undertaker vs Edge* - Great match, I'd say maybe the best between the two. It didn't have the frequency of spots that Edge vs Cena had, but there were a couple of pretty hard bumps. Edge falling onto the ladder outside looked jarring and I was surprised Taker took the big fall through the four tables. There was a decent story with Undertaker not doing quite enough to overcome the combination of Edge _and_ La Familia. It will be interesting to see where the story goes now after the commentators made a big effort of putting over the fact that Taker wouldn't simply go to RAW in the draft. There were two moments which hurt this match - Edge setting up the tables and then climbing the ladder and Undertaker moving the ladder away from the belt to take the final bump - they just made it too obvious what was about to happen. That took it below ****½ for me, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it so with another watch I may decide again.
*****¼ - ****½*

All the other matches were good I thought (***+) but not MOTYCs. Beth vs Melina "I Quit" deserves credit as the best WWE womens match in forever.


----------



## Blasko

I was going to give HBK/Batista **** 1/4, but the Y2J run ins confused the shit our of me. 

So, *** 3/4 sounds about right.


----------



## Saint Dick

I don't think ONS produced any MOTYCs. **** is the absolute highest I would give Edge/Taker after watching it twice. It was really entertaining but the psychology was all over the place.


----------



## -Mystery-

Ownage™ said:


> I don't think ONS produced any MOTYCs. **** is the absolute highest I would give Edge/Taker after watching it twice. It was really entertaining but the psychology was all over the place.


If Taker/Edge is ****, then ONS did produce a MOTYC (at least by my standards). Also, ladder matches nowadays typically don't make sense.


----------



## McQueen

I'm teetering between McGuinness/Black from Take No Prisoners and Strong/Stevens from FIP Redefined as my current MOTY with a slight edge going to the FIP match.


----------



## KingKicks

McQueen said:


> I'm teetering between McGuinness/Black from Take No Prisoners and Strong/Stevens from FIP Redefined as my current MOTY with a slight edge going to the FIP match.


Same thing i had to deal with after watching McGuiness/Black.

I'll probably watch both again but at the moment both are very high ****1/2 for me.


----------



## Saint Dick

-Mystery- said:


> If Taker/Edge is ****, then ONS did produce a MOTYC (at least by my standards). Also, ladder matches nowadays typically don't make sense.


Well I don't think it's a candidate for match of the year. It doesn't break my top 5 WWE matches personally. And I don't care if ladder matches don't make sense nowadays, that's not an excuse for this one having flaws. MITB IV made perfect sense to me anyways.


----------



## Taroostyles

I'm in the ***3/4-**** range on Edge/Taker TLC, it had some great spots and all but like Ownage said there were some real flaws in the psychology and I thought their chemistry wasn't as good as their other matches as well.

Some of the match was just slow and awkward, especially that back and forth chair sequence. Felt like it went on way too long and just ate up a large amount of time.

Still a great match, but not one of the better TLC matches IMO. I personally enjoyed Cena/Edge alot more.

As for HBK/Tista, definitely not a MOTYC in my book. ***1/4 tops from me.


----------



## sirdilznik

On first viewing of ONS:

*Edge/Taker - ***3/4* - Great match. The run-in after run-in were extremely predictable, and you could see every spot coming from 30 miles away, but still a fun match.
*
HBK/Tista - ***1/2* - I thoroughly enjoyed HBK getting Batista Bombed, Batista Bombed again, and Spinebustered on the steps. "I don't love you and I'm not sorry" was a nice touch. The rest of the match was just OK. The Y2J involvement just seemed weird like they wanted him to be involved but couldn't make up their mind about how to use him. (On a side note: How much of a humongous disappointment has Y2J's return been?)

Nothing else above *** from that show.


----------



## PulseGlazer

KingCrash said:


> I'd probably go with Aries as WOTY right now over Nigel and Jacobs. I can think of only one bad match Aries has been in this year and he's had at least four ****+ matches (Doing this from memory). But I might add Danielson to the list since most everyone we're talking about has had a good match with him this year.
> 
> One Night Stand
> HBK/Batista Stretcher - ***1/2
> Edge/Taker TLC - ****


Here's my problem with Nigel this year... he's been great against Black, Aries, and Dragon,and Strong (when he was a face), but... where are the other great matches? As top guy he has to deliver every night and he's deliverred dissapointments with Hero, Steen, Claudio, and Stevens. That counts heavily against him in my book.


----------



## Word

I have Aries & Black matches from Nigel at ****1/2. 

Aries being my MOTY atm.


----------



## Blasko

Nigel/Tyler gets a **** 3/4 from me. 

Tyler needs to be a baby face. NOW.


----------



## RealTeenwolf

sirdilznik said:


> On first viewing of ONS:
> 
> (On a side note: How much of a humongous disappointment has Y2J's return been?)


how much of a humongous disappointment has his whole WWE career been?


----------



## Word

Jericho return hasn't been a disappointment at all. Probably not amazing but what I expected.


----------



## KingKicks

*WWE One Night Stand 2008

TLC - World Heavyweight Championship*
The Undertaker vs. Edge - ******


----------



## -Destiny-

Taker/Edge - ****1/4

If HBK/Tista haden't had such a bizarre conclusion then that would be in here too.


----------



## -Mystery-

*Edge vs. Undertaker - One Night Stand*
These two have had a string of great matches and that trend continued with this match. The story of this match was perfect. Taker's career was on the line in a match he had never been in and on top of that, the man he was facing is a perfectionist when he comes to TLC matches. So, the odds were heavily stacked against Taker and the crowd ate this story up. As with all the past Taker/Edge matches there was slow build up which I thought complimented this match perfectly because each spot continued to get bigger and bigger until finally, you had a huge spot to finish the finish. Now, to briefly touch upon the spots, they were really damn good. As I noted above, they gradually became bigger and bigger which is how matches like these should be built. The sickest spots of course were the final spot and Edge going through the two tables via the Last Ride. The other smaller spots were cool and entertaining, I marked for the spot when Taker chokeslammed Edge onto the ladder.

Moving along, the run-ins in this match were perfectly executed. Some might not like the fact that there were two separate run-ins but it made perfect sense because instead of all four coming out at once, Edge anticipated the possibility that he might get in trouble more than once so he went with two sets of run-ins which happened at the perfect time as both times Taker was surely going to obtain the title. Not to mention it just continues to feed into Edge's ultimate opportunist gimmick and continued to stack the deck against Taker. 

Now, some people mentioned spotty psychology which had me scratching my head after the match because I really didn't see any minus Edge attacking the wrong leg at first but quickly covering that up and going after the proper leg. I'm not sure what spotty psychology people were referring to but if it was direct at Edge stacking a second table after spearing Taker, then that was fine because Edge wasn't sure if Taker was down and out fully and wanted to prepare himself just in case Taker got up. Or was it when Taker moved the ladder away from Edge after taking out Neely & Chavo? If so, that can be easily explained with Taker wanted to minimize the risk of Edge easily getting up and shoving over the ladder. Granted Edge actually did that but, Taker thought Edge wouldn't be able to make that long of a crawl late in the match and he had the wing span to reach the title.

So, overall I thought the psychology was very good. Edge attacking Taker's leg was brilliant because not only did it play off him attacking the leg at Judgment Day but it was also done to hinder Taker's ability to climb the ladder. The subsequent selling by Taker was great stuff especially when he climbed the ladder with one leg. I won't lie I leaped from my chair slightly and marked because it was such an awesome piece of psychology that most wouldn't do. Also, the story telling was good. As I noted above, the odds being stacked against Taker played out well throughout the match and the crowd was really into the match and they seemed to buy into the fact that they could be witnessing Taker's last match. Overall another great match from Taker & Edge. I've come to the conclusion that these two can't have a bad match together. This was probably my second favorite match between the two. Overall ****1/4 - ****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Mystery- said:


> *Edge vs. Undertaker - One Night Stand*
> These two have had a string of great matches and that trend continued with this match. The story of this match was perfect. Taker's career was on the line in a match he had never been in and on top of that, the man he was facing is a perfectionist when he comes to TLC matches. So, the odds were heavily stacked against Taker and the crowd ate this story up. As with all the past Taker/Edge matches there was slow build up which I thought complimented this match perfectly because each spot continued to get bigger and bigger until finally, you had a huge spot to finish the finish. Now, to briefly touch upon the spots, they were really damn good. As I noted above, they gradually became bigger and bigger which is how matches like these should be built. The sickest spots of course were the final spot and Edge going through the two tables via the Last Ride. The other smaller spots were cool and entertaining, I marked for the spot when Taker chokeslammed Edge onto the ladder.
> 
> Moving along, the run-ins in this match were perfectly executed. Some might not like the fact that there were two separate run-ins but it made perfect sense because instead of all four coming out at once, Edge anticipated the possibility that he might get in trouble more than once so he went with two sets of run-ins which happened at the perfect time as both times Taker was surely going to obtain the title. Not to mention it just continues to feed into Edge's ultimate opportunist gimmick and continued to stack the deck against Taker.
> 
> Now, some people mentioned spotty psychology which had me scratching my head after the match because I really didn't see any minus Edge attacking the wrong leg at first but quickly covering that up and going after the proper leg. I'm not sure what spotty psychology people were referring to but if it was direct at Edge stacking a second table after spearing Taker, then that was fine because Edge wasn't sure if Taker was down and out fully and wanted to prepare himself just in case Taker got up. Or was it when Taker moved the ladder away from Edge after taking out Neely & Chavo? If so, that can be easily explained with Taker wanted to minimize the risk of Edge easily getting up and shoving over the ladder. Granted Edge actually did that but, Taker thought Edge wouldn't be able to make that long of a crawl late in the match and he had the wing span to reach the title.
> 
> So, overall I thought the psychology was very good. Edge attacking Taker's leg was brilliant because not only did it play off him attacking the leg at Judgment Day but it was also done to hinder Taker's ability to climb the ladder. The subsequent selling by Taker was great stuff especially when he climbed the ladder with one leg. I won't lie I leaped from my chair slightly and marked because it was such an awesome piece of psychology that most wouldn't do. Also, the story telling was good. As I noted above, the odds being stacked against Taker played out well throughout the match and the crowd was really into the match and they seemed to buy into the fact that they could be witnessing Taker's last match. Overall another great match from Taker & Edge. I've come to the conclusion that these two can't have a bad match together. This was probably my second favorite match between the two. Overall ****1/4 - ****1/2


Mark.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Fantastic stuff, Mystery. I was intending on writing a whole speil about why I rated this match as high as I did (coincidentally, ****1/4-****1/2), but you literally mentioned EVERYTHING that I wanted to, so props. I also loved the part with 'Taker climbing the ladder with one leg, btw.

Actually, one thing I will say, touching on what you said about each spot building upon the previous, is that the match seemed more along the lines of a "Michaels/Ramon" ladder match, working a match with the ladder (and chairs and tables) being incorporated and pretty much every spot making some kind of sense, as opposed to a Hardys/Dudleys/Edge & Christian style "Let's throw ourselves off of stuff through other stuff from high places" dynamic. Call me old fashioned, but I'm glad they went "old school" (no pun intended) for this.

Ryder's MANLY chokeslam thru that table from the apron to the floor was awesome, by the way. That's all.


----------



## Saint Dick

*-Mystery-* I need to watch the match again but I remember thinking some of the stuff they did didn't make sense. For example, the time when Edge clocked Taker with two sick chair shots on the outside. Taker was down and out, not even inside the ring, and even Mick Foley said it, Edge could've easily went into the ring, climbed the ladder and won the match. But what did he do? He set Taker up on a table on the outside and splashed him through it. Yes, he hurt Taker more but he took damage himself and wasted a chance to win the match. 

You defended the part where Edge stacks the second table onto the first and then begins to climb but your logic there was stupid imo. He put back up the table because he wasn't sure if Taker was down for good? He should have been focussed solely on winning the match and as it turned out in the end he couldn't possibly tell that stacking another table would be to his benefit. They weren't trying to go for that logic either. Either Taker, Hawkins or Ryder made a mistake in moving the table in the first place or that spot was just poorly booked because we all know that the only reason Edge put the table on top of the other one was to take the Last Ride.

There was also another time when Edge dished out punishment, started to climb the ladder and when Taker tried to prevent him from winning Edge speared him. Surely previous punishment + finisher = an attempt to climb the ladder, but not in this match. I can't remember exactly what happened but Edge tried to do something and the sequence ended with him getting Chokeslammed onto the ladder. 

I need to watch the match again to settle on a rating but right now I wouldn't go higher than ****.


----------



## -Destiny-

Yeah it was a ladder match, it was fun. I doubt the bookers even go into the reasonings behind what happened in the match as deep as that.


----------



## - Styles -

TLC - World Heavyweight Championship
The Undertaker vs. Edge - ******


----------



## Saint Dick

RKO Destiny™ said:


> Yeah it was a ladder match, it was fun. I doubt the bookers even go into the reasonings behind what happened in the match as deep as that.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the match and I was marking out for the spots like the next guy but I can't give a match with those flaws ****1/2. Maybe I'll change my mind when I watch it again.


----------



## -Mystery-

Ownage™ said:


> *-Mystery-* I need to watch the match again but I remember thinking some of the stuff they did didn't make sense. For example, the time when Edge clocked Taker with two sick chair shots on the outside. Taker was down and out, not even inside the ring, and even Mick Foley said it, Edge could've easily went into the ring, climbed the ladder and won the match. But what did he do? He set Taker up on a table on the outside and splashed him through it. Yes, he hurt Taker more but he took damage himself and wasted a chance to win the match.
> 
> You defended the part where Edge stacks the second table onto the first and then begins to climb but your logic there was stupid imo. He put back up the table because he wasn't sure if Taker was down for good? He should have been focussed solely on winning the match and as it turned out in the end he couldn't possibly tell that stacking another table would be to his benefit. They weren't trying to go for that logic either. Either Taker, Hawkins or Ryder made a mistake in moving the table in the first place or that spot was just poorly booked because we all know that the only reason Edge put the table on top of the other one was to take the Last Ride.
> 
> There was also another time when Edge dished out punishment, started to climb the ladder and when Taker tried to prevent him from winning Edge speared him. Surely previous punishment + finisher = an attempt to climb the ladder, but not in this match. I can't remember exactly what happened but Edge tried to do something and the sequence ended with him getting Chokeslammed onto the ladder.
> 
> I need to watch the match again to settle on a rating but right now I wouldn't go higher than ****.


I will give you credit for your first example. It's something that didn't come to my attention until you mentioned. 

I disagree on you second point though. Edge stacked the second table in anticipation for Taker possibly getting up and chasing him up the ladder. He wanted to be a step ahead of Taker so to speak. So, if Taker was to get back into the ring and try to thwart Edge's attempt, Edge would try to put Taker out for good by sending him through two tables. See I think Edge was focused on winning the match but in a different way. We all know his sole purpose is to climb the ladder and grab the title but Edge has been built as this cunning and always thinking on his feet champion/challenger. So, while Edge's main objective was to climb the ladder and grab the title, he was putting himself one step ahead of Taker for that just in case because after all, he is the Undertaker and it's not easy to put him down. However, I do agree that they probably weren't going for that logic but sometimes weird things happen and they just work. This whole scenario worked for me and did make sense IMO.

I don't completely remember the finally point you made. I remember Edge spearing Taker but I can't remember what he did after that. It's something I'd have to go back in check. All in all, while you did raise a good point about Edge not climbing the ladder after striking Taker twice with a chair, I still have to disagree with you on the stacking table scene. With that said, even though you raise a good point about how Edge should've climbed the ladder I'm not so sure if it warrants a ratings drop. It was a small lapse in psychology and really didn't ruin the flow of the match IMO.

Good points though.


----------



## Saint Dick

-Mystery- said:


> I will give you credit for your first example. It's something that didn't come to my attention until you mentioned.
> 
> I disagree on you second point though. Edge stacked the second table in anticipation for Taker possibly getting up and chasing him up the ladder. He wanted to be a step ahead of Taker so to speak. So, if Taker was to get back into the ring and try to thwart Edge's attempt, Edge would try to put Taker out for good by sending him through two tables. See I think Edge was focused on winning the match but in a different way. We all know his sole purpose is to climb the ladder and grab the title but Edge has been built as this cunning and always thinking on his feet champion/challenger. So, while Edge's main objective was to climb the ladder and grab the title, he was putting himself one step ahead of Taker for that just in case because after all, he is the Undertaker and it's not easy to put him down. However, I do agree that they probably weren't going for that logic but sometimes weird things happen and they just work. This whole scenario worked for me and did make sense IMO.
> 
> I don't completely remember the finally point you made. I remember Edge spearing Taker but I can't remember what he did after that. It's something I'd have to go back in check. All in all, while you did raise a good point about Edge not climbing the ladder after striking Taker twice with a chair, I still have to disagree with you on the stacking table scene. With that said, even though you raise a good point about how Edge should've climbed the ladder I'm not so sure if it warrants a ratings drop. It was a small lapse in psychology and really didn't ruin the flow of the match IMO.
> 
> Good points though.


Now ya see, I would agree about the 2nd point if Edge had been looking around while climbing the ladder to see if Taker was coming back into the ring, but he wasn't. He set up the table, began climbing and Taker was able to set him up for the Last Ride without Edge seeing it coming. That disproves your reasoning imo.

For the 3rd point, I don't remember exactly what happened either I just know that Edge was in control, he tried to climb the later, Taker pulled him off the ladder, Edge hit a Spear and then didn't try to climb the ladder. This didn't make sense to me because Edge attempted to climb the ladder a few moments earlier but then didn't try to after hitting his finisher.


----------



## SuperBrawl

****1/4 for the TLC imv.


----------



## sirdilznik

I finally got to see *Steenerico vs. Speed Muscle from Dragon Gate Challenge II* - OK so I'm super-biased here because Speed Muscle is easily my favorite tag team in the world and Steenerico are easily in my top 5 favorite tag teams in the world. On top of that I totally cream my pants over sprints. Going into this I totally had the mindset that there is no possible way that this match winds up being anything less than spectacular and sure enough it did not disappoint. Absolutely awesome action all over the place at light speed. Everybody got to be downright awesome. The crowd was going crazy. I was going crazy. To top it all of Steen cut a sweet promo after the match. Easily my second favorite match of the year so far. *Final grade - ****3/4 *


----------



## Maxx Hero

I will be the first to suggest Shelton Benjamin vs. Matt Sydal as CHIRS IS AWESOME. Matt looked good, Shelton looked...bored. I loved Kofi's line 'Who is this mahn?'. Tazz even plugged Matt's expiriences in Japan. Abviously not really a *****, but the piece of WWE television that I have enjoyed most this year. I have not smiled watching WWE since when CM Punk first debuted, but I did for Sydal. This and Ric retiring as best out of WWE this year. I loved the two guys in the front row trying to start a Matt Sydal chant. Also, I was pissed they mispronounced Sydal when ring announcing.

Does anyone have a gif of Shelton powerbombing Sydal over the announce table onto Kofi? That was the most spontanious thing I have seen in WWE lately.

Holy shit, good idea! Team up Olsen with a new gimmick with Sydal and have them fued with Miz and Morrison.


----------



## STALKER

TLC match @ ONS

Taker vs edge- world title

****1/4- ****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> I finally got to see *Steenerico vs. Speed Muscle from Dragon Gate Challenge II* - OK so I'm super-biased here because Speed Muscle is easily my favorite tag team in the world and Steenerico are easily in my top 5 favorite tag teams in the world. On top of that I totally cream my pants over sprints. Going into this I totally had the mindset that there is no possible way that this match winds up being anything less than spectacular and sure enough it did not disappoint. Absolutely awesome action all over the place at light speed. Everybody got to be downright awesome. The crowd was going crazy. I was going crazy. To top it all of Steen cut a sweet promo after the match. Easily my second favorite match of the year so far. *Final grade - ****3/4 *


Just saw this one. Have it at about **** 1/4-****1/2. Generico being utterly unable to keep up with the DG guys most of the time was awesome, but when he got his spots in, usually off a big Steen move or from behind, they were awesome. Steen deciding to just bull over the DG guys was fantastic especially in that it built so well to the SCOH3 match where that failed. They went a bit overkill happy for me at the end to rate this quite as highly as some, but still a great, great match.


----------



## -GP-

Maxx Hero said:


> I will be the first to suggest Shelton Benjamin vs. Matt Sydal as CHIRS IS AWESOME. Matt looked good, Shelton looked...bored. I loved Kofi's line 'Who is this mahn?'. Tazz even plugged Matt's expiriences in Japan. Abviously not really a *****, but the piece of WWE television that I have enjoyed most this year. I have not smiled watching WWE since when CM Punk first debuted, but I did for Sydal. This and Ric retiring as best out of WWE this year. I loved the two guys in the front row trying to start a Matt Sydal chant. Also, I was pissed they mispronounced Sydal when ring announcing.
> 
> Does anyone have a gif of Shelton powerbombing Sydal over the announce table onto Kofi? That was the most spontanious thing I have seen in WWE lately.
> 
> Holy shit, good idea! Team up Olsen with a new gimmick with Sydal and have them fued with Miz and Morrison.


I was reading an ECW report this monring and i kinda marked out for this


----------



## Caponex75

I was wondering what are your guys matches that you just plain consider the best of the year? I mean I already have Stevens/Strong at ***** and that is my singles MOTYC for the moment. My tag one is Davey Richards & Super Dragon vs. Steenrico II although I have a problem figuring out the fucking story to the match. So what are your just straight MOTY match thus far in single and tag?


----------



## KingKicks

Caponex75 said:


> I was wondering what are your guys matches that you just plain consider the best of the year? I mean I already have Stevens/Strong at ***** and that is my singles MOTYC for the moment. My tag one is Davey Richards & Super Dragon vs. Steenrico II although I have a problem figuring out the fucking story to the match. So what are your just straight MOTY match thus far in single and tag?


Singles - Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black ****1/2 (On another watch i will likely put it up to ****3/4 though)

Tag - Steenerico vs. Speed Muscle ****1/2


----------



## -GP-

My favourite singles thus far is Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW 28/4/08) which i have at ****1/2-3/4

Favourite tags, i have all these at ****1/2, in this order of preference 

- Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto (BJW 2/1/08) 
- Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk 
- Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk (ROH Supercard of Honor III) 
- Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino (ROH DG Challenge II) 

I'm missing some stuff (sill haven't watched the new ROH PPV, Tanaka/Kanemoto, KENTA/Doi or Ryuji Ito vs. Shadow WX, plus i haven't seen Davey Richards & Super Dragon vs. Steenrico II either...where is that from?


----------



## Caponex75

GP_Punk said:


> My favourite singles thus far is Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW 28/4/08) which i have at ****1/2-3/4
> 
> Favourite tags, i have all these at ****1/2, in this order of preference
> 
> - Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto (BJW 2/1/08)
> - Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk
> - Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk (ROH Supercard of Honor III)
> - Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino (ROH DG Challenge II)
> 
> I'm missing some stuff (sill haven't watched the new ROH PPV, Tanaka/Kanemoto, KENTA/Doi or Ryuji Ito vs. Shadow WX, plus i haven't seen Davey Richards & Super Dragon vs. Steenrico II either...where is that from?


It's from PWG's European Vacation 2 Night 2 in England. I have links to the ROH New PPV Semi Main Event and the Main Event as well as the Steenrico/Super Dragon & Davey Richards II match. If you want I'll send them to you.


----------



## -GP-

Caponex75 said:


> It's from PWG's European Vacation 2 Night 2 in England. I have links to the ROH New PPV Semi Main Event and the Main Event as well as the Steenrico/Super Dragon & Davey Richards II match. If you want I'll send them to you.


i have the PPV, i just haven't gotten round to it yet - figured i'd get a break after watching three ROH shows in 2 days before it.

I'd appreciate the tag though :agree:


----------



## Caponex75

Check your pm box and enjoy.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Jere's a rematch I've been waiting a LONG time for. A lot of recent matches involving Maru actually interest me, especially his match with Quack from WXW and his two bouts with Danielson, who he's shockingly 0-3 against.


Jun Akiyama vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****

To enjoy this match, you really have to have seen the 06 GHC Title match first. This one sort of shows how far both have come, and how far Marufuji has to go. 

The story of this is actually really simple. Much like their previous match, it's the roles that make it interesting, and specifically, the changes in these roles since their last match. Marufuji is a lot tougher and can stand toe to toe with Akiyama now, but Akiyama isn't treating him lightly anymore. For him this is about redeeming a major loss.

The structure is kind of frustrating. Marufuji dukes it out with Akiyama a lot and comes in fighting rather than picking him apart like he did in their previous match. Of course, fighting it out is more Akiyama's game so while Maru comes close a few times and actually does put up a hell of a fight, the ending isn't really in doubt.

What IS surprising is how much it takes to put Marufuji away. Akiyama has to unload most of his arsenal to put him down for the 3 count. Maru's last hope comes in the attempted Perfect Cradle, which put Akiyama down last time, but when that's countered it's only a matter of time. At least he went down to a strong move, with Akiyama busting out the Exploder 98 for the first time I can recall in a long while.

This is a really good match when viewed in context, but it pales when compared to their previous bout and it really shows how far Marufuji has to go before he'll be able to beat Akiyama. Ironically, if he hadn't been trying so hard to fight it out with him, he just might have won.


----------



## Derek

Just watched KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki for the GHC Jr. Tag Titles

Rating: ****-****1/4 (might watch again to decide on which one)

Match started out a bit differently than I was expecting. Kotaro (who didn't botch once, much to McQueen's dismay) and Marvin worked over KENTA's leg for the first few minutes, KENTA tagged in Ishimori, and when tagged back in about 2 minutes later, KENTA was no longer selling the leg, and didn't the rest of the match.

After about the 12 minute mark, things start to pick up. Some pretty nice spots, almost typical of a NOAH Jr tag match, where everybody hits a big move and everybody kicks out of everything. There was a cool spot where Kotaro countered the Go 2 Sleep into a Tombstone, but instead of letting go, he stood back up and gave another Tombstone.

The ending was a bit anti-climactic as Marvin kicked out of everything, but KENTA locked him into a variation of an Octopus Hold (similar to the one Minoru Suzuki does) which lead to Marvin submitting. Not a bad match by any stretch of the imagination, but I felt that the somewhat awkward start and the finish hurt the match.

Will be rating next:
Marufuji & Suguira vs. Smith & Saito GHC Tag Title match
Marufuji vs. Akiyama (06/01/08)
Morishima vs. Yone


----------



## Bubz

Anything from SOH3 is just awesome, well, the last 5 matches anyway, as for the tv companies, jericho vs hbk at judgement day was amazing, i think i liked it more than most people, i'd have it at ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

*ROH - Take No Prisoners*

Aries vs. Danielson - ****1/4
Yeah, as if these two were gonna have a bad match...

Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black - ****1/2
Black kicked out of one thing too many imo, but still a brilliant, brilliant match.
There's a great story you can play off for a rematch here too.

Also,
"Guess what......Rooooderiiiick!" :lmao :lmao


----------



## Derek

As promised, a couple more reviews:

*GHC Tag Title match: Marufuji & Sugiura (champs) vs. Smith & Saito*

This was Smith & Saito's (or Smaito, as I call them) second attempt to win the tag titles from Marufji & Sugiura. Smaito recently won the Global Tag League, so they had momentum in their favor.

I really liked the pacing in this match, not too slow, and remained consistant until the finish. I really like Smith & Saito as a team, they're a couple of powerhouses that can work, and neither one is a weak link in the team, which is what we see sometimes in other teams *cough* Misawa & Ogawa *cough*.

Near the end, there's a close to minute long period with all men in the ring, hitting big move after big move. Smaito pick up the victory after a second rope Bisontennial! Since Smaito was going to win, and Sugiura being the next challenger for Morishima's GHC Title, Marufuji took the brunt of the punishment in this match (much to some peoples delight). Very Solid match.

*****1/4*

*Jun Akiyama vs Naomichi Marufuji*

This being the first singles rematch of the two since Marufuji won the GHC Title from Akiyama. Marufuji came out looking a bit upset (which gave away who was going over) but decided to start the match quickly by giving Akiyama a Springboard Dropkick before they could even get to introductions.

Jun took over the match quickly, working over the head of Marufuji with moves like a Curb Stomp and a DDT on the ring apron that really spiked Marufuji. They teased the finish of their last match, where Marufuji escaped the Wrist Clutch Exploder and went for the Perfect Inside Cradle, but Akiyama countered with a brutal knee to the face when Marufuji ducked his head down going for the PIC.

Akiyama hit another big knee, a couple of Exploders, and finally a Wrist Clutch Exploder for the win. Akiyama avenges his previous loss, and gets a big win.

****3/4*


----------



## Burning Sword

Derek said:


> Just watched KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki for the GHC Jr. Tag Titles
> 
> Rating: ****-****1/4 (might watch again to decide on which one)
> 
> Match started out a bit differently than I was expecting. Kotaro (who didn't botch once, much to McQueen's dismay) and Marvin worked over KENTA's leg for the first few minutes, KENTA tagged in Ishimori, and when tagged back in about 2 minutes later, KENTA was no longer selling the leg, and didn't the rest of the match.
> 
> After about the 12 minute mark, things start to pick up. Some pretty nice spots, almost typical of a NOAH Jr tag match, where everybody hits a big move and everybody kicks out of everything. There was a cool spot where Kotaro countered the Go 2 Sleep into a Tombstone, but instead of letting go, he stood back up and gave another Tombstone.
> 
> The ending was a bit anti-climactic as Marvin kicked out of everything, but KENTA locked him into a variation of an Octopus Hold (similar to the one Minoru Suzuki does) which lead to Marvin submitting. Not a bad match by any stretch of the imagination, but I felt that the somewhat awkward start and the finish hurt the match.
> 
> Will be rating next:
> Marufuji & Suguira vs. Smith & Saito GHC Tag Title match
> Marufuji vs. Akiyama (06/01/08)
> Morishima vs. Yone


I just finished watching that match and it was pretty awesome. The finish was of course anti-climatic as the submission came out of nowhere. Despite that, it was great seeing Suzuki & Marvin working together again.

I still give it ****1/4


----------



## Spiked.

Derek said:


> Just watched KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki for the GHC Jr. Tag Titles
> 
> Rating: ****-****1/4 (might watch again to decide on which one)
> 
> Match started out a bit differently than I was expecting. Kotaro (who didn't botch once, much to McQueen's dismay) and Marvin worked over KENTA's leg for the first few minutes, KENTA tagged in Ishimori, and when tagged back in about 2 minutes later, KENTA was no longer selling the leg, and didn't the rest of the match.
> 
> After about the 12 minute mark, things start to pick up. Some pretty nice spots, almost typical of a NOAH Jr tag match, where everybody hits a big move and everybody kicks out of everything. There was a cool spot where Kotaro countered the Go 2 Sleep into a Tombstone, but instead of letting go, he stood back up and gave another Tombstone.
> 
> The ending was a bit anti-climactic as Marvin kicked out of everything, but KENTA locked him into a variation of an Octopus Hold (similar to the one Minoru Suzuki does) which lead to Marvin submitting. Not a bad match by any stretch of the imagination, but I felt that the somewhat awkward start and the finish hurt the match.
> 
> Will be rating next:
> Marufuji & Suguira vs. Smith & Saito GHC Tag Title match
> Marufuji vs. Akiyama (06/01/08)
> Morishima vs. Yone


Good review. I gave that match ****. Real good match. I thought Marvin died after KENTA kick his chest 5 times in the corner.


----------



## LL4E

Gotta reccomend 05/24 KENTAfuji vs. Kikuchi/Kobashi. Just a damn good match imo.


----------



## Taroostyles

Slammiversary

AJ/Kurt-****-****1/4(You could tell Kurt was hurting and it was still awesome)
KOTM-****(Not as good as last year's which was ****1/2 IMO, but still very good. Less spotty than usual.)


----------



## -Mystery-

The rating is way too high for Styles/Angle imo. The whole psychology of Styles trying to outwrestle Angle when he clearly stated he was out to hurt him made no sense at all. Not to mention this was suppose to be Styles' revenge match yet he was dominated for 3/4 of the match.


----------



## Taroostyles

Different strokes I guess, I thought the same sorta thing about Taker/Edge TLC.(Still gave it 4* tho)

1st watch rating anyway and I was watching on a stream, they could easily change. But I couldn't see going much lower for Angle/AJ, I thought it was a great match.(Especially considering Angle was really gutting it out)


----------



## -Mystery-

Yeah, don't get me wrong the match itself was great. The action was very enjoyable but as I said the psychology didn't make too much sense. I would've rather see Styles come in and bring the fight to Angle. Next, Angle goes and starts to outwrestle Styles and slow him down which in turn frustrates Styles even more. Then, Styles finally reaches his boiling point and just kills Angle with a chair shot. It extends the feud and gives Styles just a bit of retribution he was seeking.


----------



## Taroostyles

I see what your saying, but I think they went with the Karen thing since everyone was expecting a swerve and they kinda switched it up. 

It would've been nice to see a little more retibution gained physically by AJ, but I think him going over was supposed to be his real redemption. 

I still expected a technical match because of the 2 guys in the ring, but a little more physicality probably would've been nice.

Not sure how much they were protecting Angle tho too, I thought AJ was gonna german him and then they did the pancake maneuver.


----------



## - Styles -

I gave it **** as well. 

Didn't people have this argument before. I forget what match it was, (pretty sure it was a tna one.) but someone was seeking retribution like Aj was, saying he was gonna brutalize him and so forth but tried to outwrestle Kurt during their match. Can't put my finger on it....

I think it was a great bout, but Kurt's injury hampered it from being incredible. (ending was kinda weak too.) Still though you gotta give him credit for even being out there and wrestling a 20+ minute match with that fucked up neck of his. Can't wait to see the rematch.


----------



## sirdilznik

*Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - Slammiversary - ****1/4* - Great match. Some awesome sequences. Kurt tossing AJ around with suplexes. Styles Clash reversed into Ankle Lock. Ankle Lock reversed into a Roll-up. Super Olympic Slam goodness. Good flow, great energy. AJ with a bloody nose put the icing on the cake. It was missing that something special to put it over the top.


----------



## PulseGlazer

sirdilznik said:


> *Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - Slammiversary - ****1/4* - Great match. Some awesome sequences. Kurt tossing AJ around with suplexes. Styles Clash reversed into Ankle Lock. Ankle Lock reversed into a Roll-up. Super Olympic Slam goodness. Good flow, great energy. AJ with a bloody nose put the icing on the cake. It was missing that something special to put it over the top.



Lacking something special means not 4*! It's *** 1/2 - *** 3/4.

The entire match is based on counter-wrestling. Whoever got the bigger counter contolled, leaving a fun, but fairly shallow and unmemorable match. That was Kurt more often than not mixing awesome counters with cheap shots to good effect, while AJ's counters showed that he was resilient and could hit Kurt with big moves, ultimately, Kurt would have won due to his willingness to take the shortcut (which totally undermines AJ's developed character unfortunately), except that Karen involved herself enough to let AJ's athleticism be the deciding factor.


----------



## sirdilznik

PulseGlazer said:


> Lacking something special means not 4*! It's *** 1/2 - *** 3/4.


That's what it means to you, not me.

I thoroughly loved the match and it left a serious impression on me. Totally 4* worthy for me + 1/4* for the bloody nose. *shrug*


----------



## McQueen

Quarter Star for a bloody nose? Really?


----------



## Taroostyles

I don't agree with "shallow" and "unmemorable" as adjectives for that match.


----------



## sirdilznik

McQueen said:


> Quarter Star for a bloody nose? Really?


-Yes- (Needed at least 5 characters)


----------



## Derek

I'm sorry but, if a bloody nose gets 1/4*, then old school ECW and FMW matches would be 5 fucking stars.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> I don't agree with "shallow" and "unmemorable" as adjectives for that match.


Shallow- based on straight counterwrestling with nothing deeper. No brawling vs. power or speed or anything else involved. No build to any move or any body psychology besides the Styles Clash beig set up a bit. No backstory playing in a way that made sense except for outside interference. Pointless Tomko being there at the start. Shallow.

Unmemorable- besides who was involved or the angle that lead to it, there is nothing that will make this match stand out in your memory in 6-months if you watch a lot of wrestling. When you look back, you'll know it happenned and maybe get an image or two, but it lacks the staying power of a classic except for the two points above. I watch and spend a stupid amount of time talking about wrestling, just trust me on this.


----------



## McQueen

Derek said:


> I'm sorry but, if a bloody nose gets 1/4*, then old school ECW and FMW matches would be 5 fucking stars.


And every Abdullah the Butcher match too.


----------



## sirdilznik

A bloody nose on it's own gets nothing. A bloody nose in that particular match got a 1/4* from me. What can I say? I liked it and it made the match even more enjoyable for me. I particularly liked watching it trickle down his face while in a submission and turn his teeth red. *shrug*


----------



## Derek

McQueen said:


> And every Abdullah the Butcher match too.


Well, Forks are awesome.


----------



## WillTheBloody

sirdilznik said:


> A bloody nose on it's own gets nothing. A bloody nose in that particular match got a 1/4* from me. What can I say? I liked it and it made the match even more enjoyable for me. I particularly liked watching it trickle down his face while in a submission and turn his teeth red. *shrug*


We hate you, your opinions, and everything else you believe in. Stop being different. NOW.


----------



## Sephiroth

Derek said:


> Well, Forks are awesome.


Fork you


----------



## Derek

Sephiroth said:


> Fork you


Go Fork yourself and get out of my Forkin face before I Fork you up so bad your own Forkin' Mother won't recognize you.


----------



## Sephiroth

My girlfriend didn't want to get intimate last night because she had about a 1/2* in her pants. So I told her I understand and didn't bug her about going any further.

So thanks, sirdilznik, for quantifying my girlfriend's period in terms I can understand .


----------



## Derek

LMFAO. You're my new hero Sephy.


----------



## McQueen

First off I don't believe Sephy actually has a girlfriend, and secondly. :lmao


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> First off I don't believe Sephy actually has a girlfriend, and secondly. :lmao


...I do. You've just never woken up when I've made you my bitch.


----------



## McQueen

My arse hurts... :$


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> My arse hurts... :$


If you end up having blood in your stool, make sure to give your shit an extra 1/4*.


----------



## Spartanlax

Sephiroth said:


> My girlfriend didn't want to get intimate last night because she had about a 1/2* in her pants. So I told her I understand and didn't bug her about going any further.
> 
> So thanks, sirdilznik, for quantifying my girlfriend's period in terms I can understand .


I don't think you have a girlfriend; enjoy your bleeding hand.

























Kidding, that post makes you instantly and permanently my favorite person. :lmao


----------



## -Mystery-

It's funny because I don't even think the bloody nose was planned. I mean if it was planned then I could see adding 1/4* to it but it was seemed like Angle was striking Styles and accidentally busted open his nose


----------



## Taroostyles

PulseGlazer said:


> Shallow- based on straight counterwrestling with nothing deeper. No brawling vs. power or speed or anything else involved. No build to any move or any body psychology besides the Styles Clash beig set up a bit. No backstory playing in a way that made sense except for outside interference. Pointless Tomko being there at the start. Shallow.
> 
> Unmemorable- besides who was involved or the angle that lead to it, there is nothing that will make this match stand out in your memory in 6-months if you watch a lot of wrestling. When you look back, you'll know it happenned and maybe get an image or two, but it lacks the staying power of a classic except for the two points above. I watch and spend a stupid amount of time talking about wrestling, just trust me on this.


I believe that you felt it was shallow and unmemorable, I just happen to disagree. Well atleast about the shallow part, since I won't know if it's unmemorable since the match just happened last night. 

It just seems like your on a take my opinion as fact kinda trip TBH. So somebody else rated the match 1/4-1/2* higher than you, it's not the end of the world or something.


----------



## Kapone89

*02.21.08 Pro Wrestling NOAH
Kobashi, Honda & Taniguchi Vs. Marufuji, Sugiura & Morishima -* *****1/4*


----------



## sirdilznik

Sephiroth said:


> My girlfriend didn't want to get intimate last night because she had about a 1/2* in her pants. So I told her I understand and didn't bug her about going any further.
> 
> So thanks, sirdilznik, for quantifying my girlfriend's period in terms I can understand .


No problem. Glad to help out. I'm here to educate, astound, befuddle, and make a complete idiot of myself all at the same time. :agree:


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> I believe that you felt it was shallow and unmemorable, I just happen to disagree. Well atleast about the shallow part, since I won't know if it's unmemorable since the match just happened last night.
> 
> It just seems like your on a take my opinion as fact kinda trip TBH. So somebody else rated the match 1/4-1/2* higher than you, it's not the end of the world or something.


Of course it isn't. It's a discussion thread. We were discussing... I thought.


----------



## Blasko

Sephy just won Post of the Year and no one will ever know. :lmao


----------



## IC

_*TNA Slammiversary Ratings*_

*Petey Williams vs Kaz*
Best X-division match in a long time, I thought it was brilliant. Started off with some fast chain wrestling and then progressed nicely as both competitors got good offense in. Both guys seemed to throw in a couple of innovations and good counters. The near-fall withn the pipe was great because I genuinely thought that would be it. More than any other match last night, I felt they took it right into 5th gear at the end. The story was fairly good with the classic X-division style but with Petey throwing in a bit of Steiner's influence, and I liked it when Petey threw off the Mankind mask and went nuts. When I recall how much I enjoyed it last night I couldn't remember why I wouldn't give it a ¼* higher. But the psychology could have been better. This may have been restricted by Petey's injury, but Kaz should have been going right after the head. They also should have built up a proper feud leading up to this match which would have been easy with the guys involved. Though given the months of build-up leading to the epic fail of Lethal/Dutt maybe I should take what I can get with this one.
*****¼* - a high ****¼

*AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle*
Thought this was a great match. Even though AJ cut the promo saying he was going to hurt Kurt, I still expected the match to be mostly of the nature it was. It was highly entertaining and that's most of what I look for in a match. Glad Karen's interference was minimal and Tomko wasn't there long - would have been better without any of it but hey. I generally don't add anything for a blade job (or other blood) unless it's really effectively done. Really looking forward to a rematch when Angle is 100%, I think they can put on a MOTY.
*****¼* - lower than above

*King of the Mountain*
Good, but could have been better. Best points were that everyone came out looking strong. The false finish with Booker was pretty good, Nash came from nowhere to stop him. There was some good storytelling from Rhino and Cage at times and Cage did a couple of good, but not spectacular, spots. Samoa Joe absolutely shone in this match and Robert Roode got enough offense in to look like he could fit nicely into the main event scene in coming months. However, it wasn't as good as it was hyped to be and I felt it was only comparable to the X-Div one on Impact. Also as expected in a match like this, the selling kind of goes to shit a bit. Nonetheless, highly enjoyable.
****** - a low 4* (I know I'm being pedantic with my ratings tonight)

Overall Thoughts
3 MOTYCs from a TNA PPV for the first time since I've been following it. Would have been easily my PPV of the year were it not for the unsurmountably asinine wedding segment. What fucking moron thought that would get more buys than using it in the build-up to a good Jay Lethal vs Sonjay Dutt match, which would have added another solid bout to the card. The Kong segment could easily have been replaced by something like MCMG vs Rock & Rave or a match-up like Sting vs James Storm. Still my TNA PPV of the year, but in 30 minutes they verified why they get so much shit from the IWC.


----------



## Sephiroth

Instant Classic™ said:


> (I know I'm being pedantic with my ratings tonight)


"Hmm, I agree aswell, shallow and pedantic"


----------



## Spartanlax

Sephy beat me to it....and time to download the TNA PPV.


----------



## Taroostyles

If the X Division KOTM was on the PPV, it probably would've been better IMO. 

Even with the bad editing and commercials breaks, it was still probably like ***1/2-***3/4 and last night's match was only slightly better IMO.


----------



## Blasko

Taroostyles said:


> If the X Division KOTM was on the PPV, it probably would've been better IMO.


 I'm pretty sure it's a desperate way to try and get ratings. 



Ah well. It didn't work. Maybe they learned from their mistakes.


----------



## IC

Sephiroth said:


> "Hmm, I agree aswell, shallow and pedantic"


I'll hold my hands up to that, my WWE & TNA ratings do tend to be pretty shallow. When I follow the promotion I usually rate much more instinctively, whereas with Indy matches I'm a bit more methodical. Meh, take them for what they're worth.


----------



## Taroostyles

Well, that might've been part of it but also I think they were trying to familiarize some people with the somewhat convoluted rules of the KOTM match. 

I was just saying that the X match was pretty much just as good as the PPV one and it had like 2 commercial breaks and some really poor editing.


----------



## sirdilznik

Well I'm going to watch the match again in the next few days as my rating was very much fueled on emotion and I was having a great time. I'm going to try to analyze a bit more on the second watching, but not too much since in the end for me it's mostly about how much fun I had/how much I enjoyed the match.


----------



## KeepItFresh

KOTM from Slammiversary I gave ***1/4.

Samoa Joe waits the whole match to get the pinfall and when he does he just ascends the ladder like the match itself was pointless.


----------



## Sephiroth

Instant Classic™ said:


> I'll hold my hands up to that, my WWE & TNA ratings do tend to be pretty shallow. When I follow the promotion I usually rate much more instinctively, whereas with Indy matches I'm a bit more methodical. Meh, take them for what they're worth.


Family Guy quotes are apparently lost on you...


----------



## Taroostyles

KeepItFresh said:


> KOTM from Slammiversary I gave ***1/4.
> 
> Samoa Joe waits the whole match to get the pinfall and when he does he just ascends the ladder like the match itself was pointless.


Well that's how all ladder matches end, regardless of your taking it down or hanging it up.


----------



## IC

Sephiroth said:


> Family Guy quotes are apparently lost on you...


Afraid so lol :$


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Sephiroth said:


> My girlfriend didn't want to get intimate last night because she had about a 1/2* in her pants. So I told her I understand and didn't bug her about going any further.
> 
> So thanks, sirdilznik, for quantifying my girlfriend's period in terms I can understand .


Awesome. Like, really.



Sephiroth said:


> Family Guy quotes are apparently lost on you...



As soon as you said that I thought of Peter. This has nothing to do with anything really, but I'm bored and want to join in.


----------



## peep4life

Supercard of Honor III
Dragon Gate Six Man ****1/2 ****3/4
Nigel vs Aries ****1/2 (Slightly below Rising Above)
Steenerico vs BXB Hulk and Shingo ****1/4
Briscoes vs AOTF ****


----------



## KeepItFresh

Taroostyles said:


> Well that's how all ladder matches end, regardless of your taking it down or hanging it up.


All he did was pin someone and right after just climbed the ladder. There should have been some struggle after the pinfall. Not only was it pointless, it was also anti-climatic.


----------



## -GP-

KeepItFresh said:


> All he did was pin someone and right after just climbed the ladder. There should have been some struggle after the pinfall. Not only was it pointless, it was also anti-climatic.


The point was that everyone was getting a pin and getting the right to hang the belt, while Joe just couldn't do it and so was further away from a win than the others. He then had one big moment where he got a pin and hang the belt in one go.

At least that's what they wanted to do, but for me the whole concept of the KotM match is flawed from the get go and that's why i always find it very hard to enjoy.
It's the same as with those "two teams, member of each team comes in every so-and-so minutes, once everyone's in THEN you can pin to win" matches.
If some sort of stip has to be met before you're even capable of winning, the point is lost. 
You know nothing matters until everyone's in the ring, you know nothing matters until at least the big contenders get a pin and can hang the belt, so i find it really hard to get involved in the match...

Personaly, i hate these stip-depending-on-stip matches for this exact reason. 
I don't know if others feel the same way, but i just find it very hard to suspend disbelief and "get lost into" these sort of matches.


----------



## Y²

Marufuji vs Akiyama ***1/2 wasn't that great of a match. Definetly didn't deserve the finish it got for the time it took.


----------



## - Styles -

*My Current MOTY top 10: 

1. Tanaka/Sekimoto BJW 4/28/08 - ****1/2 - ****3/4

2. Joe/Angle - Lockdown - ****1/2

3. Flair/Hbk - WM24 - ****1/2

4. CIMA/D.Kid/Ryo Saito vs. M.Yoshino/Doi/Horiguchi - SCOH III - ****1/2

5. Stevens vs. Strong - FIP Redefined - ****1/4-****1/2

6. Sekimoto/Y.Sasaki vs. T.Sasaki/Miyamoto - BJW 1/2 - ****1/4 - ****1/2

7. Jacobs/Whitmer - I quit/IWA - ****1/4 - ****1/2

8. Angle/Christian Cage - Against All Odds - **** 1/4

9. Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - SCOH III - ****1/4

10.Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - 6th Anniversary - ****1/4*


----------



## -GP-

AjStyles>GOD said:


> *
> 
> 1. Tanaka/Sekimoto BJW 4/28/08 - ****1/2 - ****3/4
> *


Spot on imo :agree:
My MOTY thus far as well.

I really want to hear Andy3000's views on this but apparently he just won't get round to watching it...:no:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GP_Punk said:


> Spot on imo :agree:
> My MOTY thus far as well.
> 
> I really want to hear Andy3000's views on this but apparently he just won't get round to watching it...:no:


Hey, you try watching 21 discs of Randy Savage and still manage to keep up with everything else . I haven't even seen Jericho/HBK from Judgment Day yet and I NEVER miss a pimped Michaels match. Fuckin' Savage.


----------



## Blasko

Does the Savage comp have his promos? Because those are priceless.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Sure does. And they sure as hell are. There's a fucking AWESOME segment on disc 1 where he's on that old TNT talk show with McMahon and he literally spouts THE most random shit you've ever heard. He compares Elizabeth to a flower pot, but only Elizabeth has more pzazz factor than a flower pot so he chose her as his manager... apparently. Then he wants to beat the shit out of Alfred Hayes and it's all just just sensational.


----------



## -GP-

I hear Savage was to inspiration for most of Scott Steiner's promos...:side:


----------



## Blasko

Macho Man is my most favorite wrestler of all time. Mostly since I use to watch him a lot as a kid. 

I need that comp. Now.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

EVERYBODY needs that comp! Now.

And Punk, crazy Steiner promos ain't got shit on crazy Savage promos .


----------



## -Mystery-

I don't know. Steiner's attempt to do math and add percents was pretty fucking hilarious.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Well, yeah... but I'd still take Savage's attempts at dancing to cheesy music, wanting to kill an English guy for talking while he's talking and comparing his lovely new manager to a flower pot... all in the space of 3 minutes, over Steiner's mathematical genius.


----------



## -Mystery-

Hmm...good point but I think we can all agree Warrior > all.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'd say that's almost indisputible. Man, I miss Warrior.

In fact, Corey has a Warrior set.... and I think I might be insane enough to buy it. I'm probably only 2 pills away from it actually.


----------



## Taroostyles

KeepItFresh said:


> All he did was pin someone and right after just climbed the ladder. There should have been some struggle after the pinfall. Not only was it pointless, it was also anti-climatic.


I agree it was somewhat anti-climatic, still atleast ***3/4-**** for me.


----------



## Bubz

kaz vs petey was very good, as was aj vs angle, its so great to see aj back at his best in tna again


----------



## Taroostyles

It's probably not 4*, as it's like an 8 minute total spotfest but everyone should check out the MCMG/Speed Muscle match from Impact tonight. 

Awesome stuff, and with no commercials during the match either.

Also, the Joe/Kaz match was very good as well.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Taroostyles said:


> It's probably not 4*, as it's like an 8 minute total spotfest but everyone should check out the MCMG/Speed Muscle match from Impact tonight.
> 
> Awesome stuff, and with no commercials during the match either.
> 
> Also, the Joe/Kaz match was very good as well.


I know everyone ill be shocked, but MCMG vs. Speed Muscle - ****. High speed, unique and memorable


----------



## Taroostyles

I had it at around ***3/4-**** on first watch, but I'm def gonna watch it again since I DVRed it. 

For a less than 10 minute spotfest, it was really awesome. The crowd was super hot too, which definitely helps. 

The thought of a possible rematch at Victory Road in a Ultimate X match is pretty awesome as well.


----------



## Sephiroth

I completely forgot MCMG vs. Speed Muscle was on tonight. Damn MGS 4


----------



## Derek

Just watched it, insane match considering that it was only about 6 minutes. After first viewing, I'd give it somewhere around ***1/2-***3/4. **** if really pushed.


----------



## Chiller88

Derek said:


> Just watched it, insane match considering that it was only about 6 minutes. After first viewing, I'd give it somewhere around ***1/2-***3/4. **** if really pushed.


Was it really just 6 minutes? It felt like it went a lot longer because there was just so much that they did in that short time. I'd give it ***3/4 - **** after the first viewing.


----------



## Derek

I downlaoded it and it was done before the 8 minute mark, and that included about a minute of intros.


----------



## Chiller88

Derek said:


> I downlaoded it and it was done before the 8 minute mark, and that included about a minute of intros.


I see. I'll definitely try to rewatch it tomorrow as it was an awesome match for the time it got.


----------



## Sephiroth

I'll be honest...***

It was pretty much Speed Muscle hitting all their moves and showing them to a US audience. It was near 6 minutes too, which is too short for it to be **** for my tastes.

Yeah...If that was ****, then you guys better give Steenerico vs. Speed Muscle the full 5.

Anyways, was that a new double team move The Guns hit before the stereo superkicks?

Edit: If this were my first time seeing Speed Muscle, I'd probably rate it the same...but it wasn't. I've seen all this before, so it wasn't as much of a match as it was "Hey, check out what we can do" and since The Guns didn't have as much offense, they gave them to win to keep them looking strong. Or it's TNA, they flipped a coin and heads was "The Guns win."


----------



## Derek

Sephiroth said:


> Anyways, was that a new double team move The Guns hit before the stereo superkicks?


I've seen them do it before, but it was the first time in TNA I have seen them do it.


----------



## Chiller88

Derek said:


> I've seen them do it before, but it was the first time in TNA I have seen them do it.


I think I've seen them do it in TNA a couple times before. Don't remember when exactly though, not that it really matters.


----------



## M*-*K*-*O

The Complete Dust/Cutter? They've done it in TNA a couple times I think.


----------



## -GP-

Taroostyles said:


> It's probably not 4*, as it's like an 8 minute total spotfest but everyone should check out the MCMG/Speed Muscle match from Impact tonight.
> 
> Awesome stuff, and with *no commercials during the match* either.


I'll check this one out, but TNA not having commercials cut up a match...somebody check the temperature in hell plz


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> I'll be honest...***
> 
> It was pretty much Speed Muscle hitting all their moves and showing them to a US audience. It was near 6 minutes too, which is too short for it to be **** for my tastes.
> 
> Yeah...If that was ****, then you guys better give Steenerico vs. Speed Muscle the full 5.
> 
> Anyways, was that a new double team move The Guns hit before the stereo superkicks?
> 
> Edit: If this were my first time seeing Speed Muscle, I'd probably rate it the same...but it wasn't. I've seen all this before, so it wasn't as much of a match as it was "Hey, check out what we can do" and since The Guns didn't have as much offense, they gave them to win to keep them looking strong. Or it's TNA, they flipped a coin and heads was "The Guns win."


That the match never paused at all and is clearly memorable enough made it **** for me. I've obviously seen Speed Muscle before.

And is **** 1/2 high enough for Steenerico Speed Muscle? Awesome as it was, MCMG AOTF was better! (see roh weekly)


----------



## IC

Just watched MCMG vs Speed Muscle, they pulled it off at an insane pace, really got my heart rate up.

I'm not really familiar with Speed Muscle so I don't know how it compares but I'd definitely give this ****½*, maybe a bit higher after another watch. If they can replicate this in a longer X match (and survive the TNA overbooking machine) I think we'd have a classic for sure.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Wow, I had no idea at all Speed Muscle was TNAing it against the Guns. I'll have to check that out.

Slooooowly working through DGC II and I'll give both Steenerico/Speed Muscle and New Hazard/AOTF tags ****1/4. I actually preferred the latter, but both were fantastic I thought.


----------



## peep4life

Ill give the Speed Muscle/MCMG match ***3/4, buts its extremely close to four. Arguably the best seven minute match I can remember, just a ridiculous amount of offense packed into such a small amount of time. If there rematch gets fifteen minutes I might explode from spot filled awesomeness.


----------



## -GP-

Speed Muscle vs. MCMG is 6 and a half minutes of spot-filled goodness at ***1/2-3/4 imo.


----------



## jobberforlife

I'm keeping an ongoing list of my ****+ matches of 2008 here.


----------



## Caponex75

^Didn't you give Aries/Stevens ***1/4?


----------



## Y²

***1/2 at most for Speed Muscle vs MCMG.
It was as good as it could have been for a 6minute match on Impact.

KENTA/Ishimori vs Shingo/Hulk is my favourite for the year so far, ****3/4. It just blew my mind, really had me on the Edge, even knowning the result. Constant action, decent story, good selling, a really simple (Yet Badass) finish. Everything I love about wrestling.

Black vs Nigel is close behind it, but Black really lacks the experiance factor at the moment, and did a lot of small things that annoyed me. Although it wasn't that big of a deal in this match since Nigel dominated it all it still took something away from it, imo anyway, I just don't want to overrate him because he is new, he's still the future of wrestling.


----------



## thepunisherkills

GP_Punk said:


> I'll check this one out, but TNA not having commercials cut up a match...somebody check the temperature in hell plz


No commercials for the Kaz/Joe match either, which was about *** aswell.


----------



## dele

Just saw Ito vs WX for the BJW Deathmatch title. OK match, but they both really worked their butts off to put on a good match. Add in the crowd going insane for WX and you have a solid *** 1/2 match.

I'm literally salivating at the teased WX/Kasai matchup.


----------



## Saint Dick

Angle/Styles - Slammiversary - ****


----------



## Bubz

mcmg vs speed miscle was awesome for a 6 minute match, the crowd was red hot for joe/kaz aswell and is the most iv seen joe popped for in a while


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

I don't see **** for Speed Muscle vs. MCMG.

It was a lot of fun, and very good for a short match, but it utterly lacked the kind of driving story or dramatic finish that pushes such matches above the rest. ***1/4 is what I'd put it at.

In more detail, it was basically a formula tag with pretty and impressive spots. Were they cool? Sure. Was there a structure? Yes, but it was pretty basic. Was there a dramatic finish? Yes, after a short burst of nearfalls. Did they do anything (impressive spots aside) to make this match stand out above a standard formula tag match? Not really.

Really, it felt like an shortened version of a ****+ spotfest, but it wasn't that match and it wasn't that good. ***1/4 from me.

Want to see a **** match in the five minute range? Check out the Shelton Benjamin vs. Bobby Lashley beat the clock match from Raw last year. Dynamic storytelling and a dramatic finish. Not only did it have all the keys (plus Shelton being a GREAT heel) but it actually BENEFITTED from being that short, as the time limit provided a story for them to work with.


----------



## Saint Dick

***1/2 for Speed Muscle/MCMG.


----------



## - Styles -

^That's why I gave it, a fantastic short match though. If these 2 teams meet in the Ultimate X final I'd be shocked if it was under ****+ tbh.


----------



## vivalabrave

If they meet up in Ultimate X, I'll be mighty upset because I probably won't be able to go to VR.


----------



## volcanic

(ROH) McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 3/4
(ROH) CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2
(NOAH) Misawa vs. Morishima - 03/02/08 - **** 1/2
(WWE) Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - **** 1/2
(BJW) Masato Tanaka vs. Sekimoto - 04/28/08 - **** 1/4
(ROH) McGuiness vs. Black - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
(NOAH) KENTA, Ishimori, Saito vs. The Briscoes, Chris Hero - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
(NOAH) Marufuji, Sugiura, Morishima vs Kobashi, Honda, Taniguchi - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
(ROH) Aries vs. Danielson - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
(DG) Bxb Hulk, Shingo vs. KENTA, Ishimori - The Gate of Generation - 03/20/08 - ****
(ROH) Speed Muscle vs. Steen-erico - Dragon Gate Challenge - ****
(WWE) Edge vs. The Undertaker - One Night Stand - ****
(ROH) BxB Hulk, Shingo vs. Steen-erico - Supercard of Honor III - ****
(DG) KENTA vs. Doi - Dead or Alive - 05/05/08 - ****
(ROH) - McGuiness vs. Morishima - Undeniable - ****
(ROH) Stevens vs. Strong - Supercard of Honor III - ****
(AJPW) Styles vs. Tanahashi - 02/17/08 - *** 3/4
(AJPW) Tanahashi, Mutoh vs Kawada, Kea - 03/01/08 - *** 3/4


----------



## vivalabrave

You need to see Danielson-Nigel from 6YA. Easily my MOTY (although I haven't seen DGCII, SOHIII, or TNP yet).


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

AjStyles>GOD said:


> ^That's why I gave it, a fantastic short match though. If these 2 teams meet in the Ultimate X final I'd be shocked if it was under ****+ tbh.


I actually have concerns about whether it would be any good.

Keep in mind, the Dragon Gate wrestlers are basically trained to work crazy sprint style matches filled with a lot of nearfalls that wouldn't be present in Ultimate X. Not saying they couldn't adapt, but I think a standard match with about 20 minutes in length would be MUCH better. 

Actually, the MCMG's would probably do quite well in DG. Their style is similar enough.



Also...

RoH Title - Nigel McGuinness (c) vs. Tyler Black - ****

This was a really strong underdog style match. Black sold the arm and the nearfalls perfectly and really made you feel that even though it wouldn't be his night, he'd go down swinging.

That said, it was very by the books. Specifically, by Danielson's books. This match pretty much spotlighted everything that pisses me off about modern McGuinness in one fell swoop. He's working like a poor man's Danielson, but lacks the focus to really drive him through. He worked the arm alright early on, but after the big bump he pretty much just ran through his finishers on autopilot and let Black kick out of them with short comebacks in between. Yes, the finishers escalated nicely and there was a decent amount of work in there, but aside from the London Dungeon, Nigel barely even used the injured arm he'd tenderized in the early going.

As an aside, I HATE the Jawbreaker as a finisher. Much like Shelton Benjamin's Dragon Whip, it worked when it was a counter to a counter as it initially was, but watching him run back into the ropes and doing a silly flip at any excuse is just absurd...especially when the end Lariat isn't always the most powerful he's thrown. Just a thought.

So yeah, Black carries Nigel above **** and looks like a star doing it, but he never looked like he could beat Nigel so much as survive him...for a while. Booking and Nigel aside, this WAS a really great match and deserves to be credited as such, but Nigel has a lot of work to do before I'll be able to buy into him as champion.


----------



## The Maloney

volcanic said:


> (ROH) McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 3/4
> (ROH) CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2
> (NOAH) Misawa vs. Morishima - 03/02/08 - **** 1/2
> (WWE) Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - **** 1/2
> (BJW) Masato Tanaka vs. Sekimoto - 04/28/08 - **** 1/4
> (ROH) McGuiness vs. Black - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
> (NOAH) KENTA, Ishimori, Saito vs. The Briscoes, Chris Hero - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
> (NOAH) Marufuji, Sugiura, Morishima vs Kobashi, Honda, Taniguchi - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
> (ROH) Aries vs. Danielson - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
> (DG) Bxb Hulk, Shingo vs. KENTA, Ishimori - The Gate of Generation - 03/20/08 - ****
> (ROH) Speed Muscle vs. Steen-erico - Dragon Gate Challenge - ****
> (WWE) Edge vs. The Undertaker - One Night Stand - ****
> (ROH) BxB Hulk, Shingo vs. Steen-erico - Supercard of Honor III - ****
> (DG) KENTA vs. Doi - Dead or Alive - 05/05/08 - ****
> (ROH) - McGuiness vs. Morishima - Undeniable - ****
> (ROH) Stevens vs. Strong - Supercard of Honor III - ****
> (AJPW) Styles vs. Tanahashi - 02/17/08 - *** 3/4
> (AJPW) Tanahashi, Mutoh vs Kawada, Kea - 03/01/08 - *** 3/4


I dont know, I have to agree with this list. It pretty much sums up what I was going to post.


----------



## KeepItFresh

Caught up on ROH shows all the way through SOH III and here is my current MOTYC list...

1. Shawn Michaels v.s Ric Flair- WWE WrestleMania 24 *****3/4*
2. Masato Tanaka v.s Koji Kanemoto- NJPW v.s Zero1-Max *****1/2*
3. Austin Aries v.s Nigel McGuinness- ROH Supercard of Honor III: ROH Title Match *****1/2*
4. Roderick Strong v.s Erick Stevens- FIP Redifined *****1/2*
5. Bryan Danielson v.s Nigel McGuiness- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show: ROH Title Match *****1/2*
6. Shinsuke Nakamura v.s Hiroshi Tanahashi- NJPW New Dimension: IWGP Title Match *****1/4-****1/2*
7. The Undertaker v.s Edge- WWE Wrestlemania 24: WHC Title Match *****1/4*
8. Roderick Strong v.s Nigel McGuinness- ROH Without Remorse: ROH Title Match *****1/4*
9. Go Shiozaki v.s Austin Aries- ROH 6th Year Anniversary Show *****1/4*
10. Chris Jericho v.s Shawn Michaels- WWE Judgement Day *****1/4*
11. Jimmy Jacobs v.s B.J. Whitmer- IWA-MS The 500th Show: I Quit Match *****1/4*
12. Raw Elimination Chamber- WWE No Way Out *****1/4*
13. Christain Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Aganist All Odds: TNA Title Match *****1/4*
14. SHINGO & BxB Hulk v.s Steenerico- ROH Supercard of Honor III *****1/4*
15. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura- NOAH Global Tag League 04/12/08 *****1/4*
16. Samoa Joe v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Lockdown: Steel Cage Match for the TNA Title ******
17. Bryan Danielson v.s Tyler Black- ROH Breakout ******
18. Edge v.s The Undertaker- WWE One Night Stand: TLC Match for the WWE Title ******
19. Triple H v.s JBL v.s John Cena v.s Randy Orton- WWE Backlash: Fatal 4 Way for the WWE Title ******
20. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black v.s The Briscoes- ROH Supercard of Honor III: Relaxed Rules Match ******
21. Christian Cage v.s Kurt Angle- TNA Final Resolution: TNA Title Match ******
22. Edge v.s The Undertaker- WWE Backlash: WHC Title Match ******
23. Eddie Kingston v.s 2 Cold Scorpio- IWA-MS The 500th Show: IWA-MS Title Match ******
24. El Generico & Kevin Steen v.s Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino- ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II ******
25. Jack Evans v.s Human Tornado- PWG Scared Straight: PWG Title Match ******


----------



## -GP-

KeepItFresh said:


> 2. Masato Tanaka v.s Koji Kanemoto- NJPW v.s Zero1-Max *****1/2*


man, i've had this forever but i never get round to watching it...probably should at some point
Seems like Tanaka's been having one hell of a year. His match with Sekimoto from 28/4 is my current MOTY (at ****1/2-3/4 - i thing dele gave it ****7/8 or something like that ) and their match from 1/1 is also up around ****-4+1/4


----------



## KeepItFresh

Where could I get those matches?


----------



## -GP-

KeepItFresh said:


> Where could I get those matches?


check your pm for 28/4.

i'm afraid i don't recall where i got 1/1 from, but have a look around the media section on here and maybe you'll get lucky


----------



## Emarosa

MCMG/Speed Muscle - ***1/2

That's the max I'd ever give a random tag match. First time I've seen SM as well. I'm guessing with a story and enough time to do some selling they could easily get past ****. Very good spotfest and the hot crowd helped a lot.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GP_Punk said:


> man, i've had this forever but i never get round to watching it...probably should at some point
> Seems like Tanaka's been having one hell of a year. His match with Sekimoto from 28/4 is my current MOTY (at ****1/2-3/4 - i thing dele gave it ****7/8 or something like that ) and their match from 1/1 is also up around ****-4+1/4


Another puro match from this year that I need to get around to watching.

KIF, I'll try and find the 1/1 match link... pretty sure I hooked someone up with it a while ago from somewhere.


----------



## stinger-splash

-ShowStopper-™ said:


> MCMG/Speed Muscle - ***1/2
> 
> That's the max I'd ever give a random tag match. First time I've seen SM as well. I'm guessing with a story and enough time to do some selling they could easily get past ****. Very good spotfest and the hot crowd helped a lot.


Best 6 minutes match I have ever seen. ***3/4


----------



## KeepItFresh

Andy3000 said:


> Another puro match from this year that I need to get around to watching.
> 
> KIF, I'll try and find the 1/1 match link... pretty sure I hooked someone up with it a while ago from somewhere.


Alrights, I'll be expecting it.


----------



## gusbarba

NOAH "GREAT VOYAGE 2008 IN YOKOHAMA", 6/14/08 

Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4


----------



## McQueen

The 30 minute draw?

Care to be kind enough to post a link.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

McQueen said:


> The 30 minute draw?
> 
> Care to be kind enough to post a link.


Here is the youtube link.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WtuBnf3iWU8
It is pretty good, they were able to pull the 
draw off pretty well.
****1/4-1/2


----------



## Derek

My latest review since I can't sleep.

*Takeshi Morishima (champion) vs. Takashi Sugiura GHC Heavywieght Title Match*

This is the first title defense of the "Japanese Monster" (apparently thats his nickname now, as they referred to him as that a few times in the match) against Takashi Sugiura, who got the shot because he pinned Morishima on the last day of the Tag League. Sugiura has an amatuer background and likes to use various suplexes.

I felt that these two, in this match, did not mesh well. Sugiura did evrything he could to make his suplexes work, but he's barely at the heavyweight range, while Morishima is a super heavyweight. At one point, Sugiura locks in an ankle lock even though he hadn't worked over the leg at all, and then worked it over for about a minute, got him in the ankle lock again, and when Mrishima got the ropes break, he gave up on the leg.

The match felt nearly emotionless as it seemed that they were just doing moves with no real sense of urgency. There were a couple of times where Sugiura hit his Olympic Yossen Slam (his main finisher) and Morishima kicked out without even an "ooooooh" from the audience, because it just seemed like there was no way it was going to beat Morishima. At least Morishima was consistant in working over the chest of Sugiura.

The finish saw Morishima no sell a big move by Sugiura (might have been an Olympic Slam, I'm a little tired), hit some clubbin' blows to Sugiura, a lariat, a moonsault (which the crowd did react to and looked good, but he barely caught Sugiura) and then a Backdrop Driver for the win.

*Rating: ***1/2*

I feel I might be a bit generous with this rating, as it really seemed like both men were going through the motions most of the match, rather than it being a higly important title match. As someone who was happy to see Morishima become champion, I hope we don't see any more defenses like this, as with him being champion, the expectations are high, and they aren't met he will be at fault because he's the champ. I really hope his match next month with Rikioh will be better and will add to Morishima's credibility as champion.

Next I'll review Kobashi/KENTA vs. Kensuke Office


----------



## casper-21

Current list:

1. Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show
2. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Genesis
2 bis. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 28.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
3. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi - ROH SOH3
4. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH Breakout
5. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk vs Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - Dragon Gate 15.01.08 (GHC tag junior)
6. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 02.01.08 (BJW tag title)
7. Takeshi Morishima vs Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 14.06.08 (GHC World title)
8. Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH SOH3 (ROH World title)
9. Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ROH Take No Prisoners (ROH World title)
10. Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ROH Take No Prisoners
11. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Briscoes vs Jack Evans & Jigsaw vs Brent Albright & B.J.Whitmer (ultimate endurance) - ROH Proving Ground (ROH tag)
12. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Gate Of Generation (GHC tag junior)
13. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Taiyo Kea - AJPW 06.04.08 Champion Carnival
14. CIMA, Go Shiozaki & Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero - ROH DGC2
15. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW WKingdom (IWGP title)
16. Masato Tanaka vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 13.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
17. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs vs Ikuto Hidaka & Dick Togo - Zero-1 Genesis (NWA Int Light tag)
18. KENTA vs Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive


----------



## vivalabrave

Where's Nigel vs. Dragon from 6YA?


----------



## Derek

As promised

*Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima*

*Backstory:* To understand the Kobashi/Sasaki aspect, you have to go back to the 90's. Kobashi was considred the strongest non-foreigner in ALL Japan, and Sasaki was considered the same for New Japan. Both men finally faced off a few years ago at the last NOAH Tokyo Dome show (They had an amazing match, I highly suggest finding it if you haven't seen it). KENTA and Nakajima are the protoges of their veteran partners. KENTA has had much success in NOAH, and is considered one of the top Junior Heavyweights of the company. Nakajima is a real prodigy, as he became an active wrestler at only age 15, he is now only 19 but is a well polished wrestler and is highly respected by the fans. KENTA and Nakajima had a singles match against each other the night before, with KENTA picking up the win.

*Match Thoughts:* Before the announcer could even do the intros, KENTA and Nakajima are in each others faces, proving that the match they had the night before solved nothing. KENTA & Nakajima start off the match, exchanging some stiff kicks before Nakajima tags in Kensuke. I really loved how during various points in the match, KENTA would take some cheap shots at whoever was on the apron of the opposing team (usually Kensuke) and it allowed the person on the apron to get fired up, and took it out on KENTA when they got tagged in. It was a nice little tactic that brought some extra intensity to the match and kept the crow lively.

The first interaction between Kobashi and Kensuke was a series of chops, which had me worried that they'd have another chopfest (in their '05 match, Kobashi and Kensuke did nothing but chops for over 4 minutes, it was crazy). Luckily it ended after about 30 seconds, and there wasn't much chopping after that. There wasn't too much interaction between Kobashi and Kensuke, if either man was in the ring, it was with KENTA or Nakajima. 

The ending minutes of the match saw KENTA and Nakajima really picked up the pace. When it was announced that there was only a few minutes left, they each made plenty of pin attempts, playing up the urgency to win before the time limit. There was a really sick part where KENTA hit the Go 2 Sleep, only to have Nakajima grab the knee that just smashed his face, and lock in an Ankle Lock! Both guys were hitting some of their biggest moves, only to have the opponent kick out or to have the pin broken up. Kensuke and Kobashi are in the ring, chopping each other on their knees, while KENTA and Nakajima are really trying to beat each other, when the Time Limit bell rings. 30 Minute draw.

*Post Match:* We see all 4 men finally stop and regain composure. The ref raises both teams hands. We see Kobashi and Kensuke shake hands, affirming that despite the hard hitting match, their respect for each other is still there. KENTA offer Nakajima a hand shake, only to have Nakajima blind side KENTA! Both men had to be pulled apart several times, until Nakajima finally walked to the back, kicking the guard rail on his way out. looks like these two still have a major score to settle, and I hope to see them face each other again.

*Rating: ****1/2* 

Despite the match being a draw, I thought the pace was very consistent and didn't really ever slow down much. No stalling tactics or pointless rest holds here. The one thing that I really didn't like was how Kobashi had worked over Kensukes arm for a couple of minutes, but when Kensuke countered a move and made a comeback, he completely no sold the arm. Other than that, there wasn't much more that I could ask for. It was well paced, lived up to expectations, and most of all, was a lot of fun to watch.


----------



## Blasko

I, personally, can't wait for Nakajima vs. KENTA.


----------



## Goku

I only have Kobashi & KENTA vs. Sasaki & Nakajima at ****1/2*


----------



## Derek

Really? Mind letting me know why? Just curious.

Oh and I just saw that Kensuke and Nakajima will be working a few dates on the next NOAH Tour, so I'm thinking KENTA vs. Nakajima at the next Budokan Hall show on July 18th.


----------



## Blasko

I hope Kenskay office stays with NOAH. They're too good to pass down.


----------



## Sephiroth

KENTA vs. Nakajima was on the Kensuke Office show the day after the 30 minute draw. KENTA beat Nakajima in about 27 minutes with the Go 2 Sleep.


----------



## Goku

Derek said:


> Really? Mind letting me know why? Just curious.


Sure. I think they overdid almost everything. I'm generally not a huge fan of long tag team matches. Kobashi didn't really click at all for me in this match. Nakajima and Sasaki had an awesome dynamic going on though. The stuff on the outside, like I said earlier was kind of overdone

Great match and ****1/2* is a great rating


----------



## Derek

That's cool. They did overdue some things like you said. Kobashi seemed a little tentative to do too much, but I think KENTA handled himself well in that situation.

Glad to hear what you thought.


----------



## volcanic

Derek said:


> As promised
> 
> *Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima*
> 
> *Backstory:* To understand the Kobashi/Sasaki aspect, you have to go back to the 90's. Kobashi was considred the strongest non-foreigner in ALL Japan, and Sasaki was considered the same for New Japan. Both men finally faced off a few years ago at the last NOAH Tokyo Dome show (They had an amazing match, I highly suggest finding it if you haven't seen it). KENTA and Nakajima are the protoges of their veteran partners. KENTA has had much success in NOAH, and is considered one of the top Junior Heavyweights of the company. Nakajima is a real prodigy, as he became an active wrestler at only age 15, he is now only 19 but is a well polished wrestler and is highly respected by the fans. KENTA and Nakajima had a singles match against each other the night before, with KENTA picking up the win.
> 
> *Match Thoughts:* Before the announcer could even do the intros, KENTA and Nakajima are in each others faces, proving that the match they had the night before solved nothing. KENTA & Nakajima start off the match, exchanging some stiff kicks before Nakajima tags in Kensuke. I really loved how during various points in the match, KENTA would take some cheap shots at whoever was on the apron of the opposing team (usually Kensuke) and it allowed the person on the apron to get fired up, and took it out on KENTA when they got tagged in. It was a nice little tactic that brought some extra intensity to the match and kept the crow lively.
> 
> The first interaction between Kobashi and Kensuke was a series of chops, which had me worried that they'd have another chopfest (in their '05 match, Kobashi and Kensuke did nothing but chops for over 4 minutes, it was crazy). Luckily it ended after about 30 seconds, and there wasn't much chopping after that. There wasn't too much interaction between Kobashi and Kensuke, if either man was in the ring, it was with KENTA or Nakajima.
> 
> The ending minutes of the match saw KENTA and Nakajima really picked up the pace. When it was announced that there was only a few minutes left, they each made plenty of pin attempts, playing up the urgency to win before the time limit. There was a really sick part where KENTA hit the Go 2 Sleep, only to have Nakajima grab the knee that just smashed his face, and lock in an Ankle Lock! Both guys were hitting some of their biggest moves, only to have the opponent kick out or to have the pin broken up. Kensuke and Kobashi are in the ring, chopping each other on their knees, while KENTA and Nakajima are really trying to beat each other, when the Time Limit bell rings. 30 Minute draw.
> 
> *Post Match:* We see all 4 men finally stop and regain composure. The ref raises both teams hands. We see Kobashi and Kensuke shake hands, affirming that despite the hard hitting match, their respect for each other is still there. KENTA offer Nakajima a hand shake, only to have Nakajima blind side KENTA! Both men had to be pulled apart several times, until Nakajima finally walked to the back, kicking the guard rail on his way out. looks like these two still have a major score to settle, and I hope to see them face each other again.
> 
> *Rating: ****1/2*
> 
> Despite the match being a draw, I thought the pace was very consistent and didn't really ever slow down much. No stalling tactics or pointless rest holds here. The one thing that I really didn't like was how Kobashi had worked over Kensukes arm for a couple of minutes, but when Kensuke countered a move and made a comeback, he completely no sold the arm. Other than that, there wasn't much more that I could ask for. It was well paced, lived up to expectations, and most of all, was a lot of fun to watch.


this I gotta see.


----------



## starttheinfeKKtion

ROH Tag Wars 2008 - Shelly/Sabin vs. Jacobs/Black ****1/2


----------



## KingKicks

Going to rewatch them when the DVD is released but after watching them live.

*NOAH European Navigation 2008*

KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson and Eddie Edwards *****1/4*

Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji *****1/4*


----------



## -GP-

Yeah, can't give ratings because i was marking the hell out over them, but those two are definite MOTYCs.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Benjo™ said:


> Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji *****1/4*


This.

This I HAVE to see.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Completely seperate thought justifies a completely seperate post.

GHC Title: Mitsuharu Misawa (c) vs. Takeshi Morishima - ****1/4

What a fun match. It's the basic NOAH main event style, with both guys just pounding away at each other and gradually raising the bar until the finish, but they work it much smarter than usual with a lot of respect being shown to the respective finishers. They find inventive ways to beat the hell out of each other in the middle including pulling out a few spots I didn't think they'd be able to do like Morishima's dive and the Emerald Fusion off the apron.

The one other story driving this match forward was the way Morishima utterly overwhelmed Misawa. It's exceedingly rare that Misawa runs into someone who can outfight him and go hit for hit with him the way Morishima can and the challenge forces him to dig deep to try and outwresle him rather than outfight him, almost like he did to Stan Hansen and Dr. Death 15 years ago. Unfortunately for him, he's not the wrestler he was 15 years ago and Morishima's at his peak, leading to the crowning of a new GHC Champion.

As a small aside, the finishing sequence to this is just awesome, showing that you don't need to have a bunch of finishers to create a dramatic finale, just use the ones you have properly and it'll all work out. Great big match to usher in the age of Morishima in NOAH.


----------



## volcanic

I loved when Shima went screaming at him with a lariat and nearly took his head off.


----------



## - Styles -

*NOAH - 6-14-08
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima - *****

Saw this is the MM section so I checked it out. Great stuff especially from KENTA and Nakajima. They had some really good interaction and the final furious minutes between the 2 are great.

Not a fan of Time Limit draws though. That's really the only setback I can see besides Kobashi not really doing much.


----------



## Spartanlax

Eddie Kingston vs. Teddy Hart vs. Homicide - JAPW

Pretty awesome, intense, hate-filled brawl that had a cool story of "let's kill Teddy". Kingston and 'Cide form a VERY loose partnership, and it works so well because they both try taking Teddy out, and as soon as they have some 'spare time' so to speak, they're back to killing each other and stabbing each other in the back. BTW, Hart moonsaults off of everything. Literally everything. The fans even count along (total was 5 or 6 I think). At 18:50 (which is 13:50 in the match or so), Kingston does the most badass/coolest thing that made me literally scream "OH MY GOD!" and re-watched it three times...but I won't spoil it. Easily one of the best JAPW matches I've ever seen, and I've seen their 'classics'. Very low end MOTYC but worth checking out. ****

Check the Indy section to download the match.

EDIT- Forgot Homicide's line of the night-

"Teddy! Teddy! You're uncle's a ******!"


----------



## -GP-

Spartanlax said:


> BTW, Hart moonsaults off of everything. Literally everything. The fans even count along (total was 5 or 6 I think)


:lmao :lmao Awesome!

That King thing you mention got me interested...off to the media section


----------



## Sephiroth

Spartanlax said:


> Eddie Kingston vs. Teddy Hart vs. Homicide - JAPW
> 
> Pretty awesome, intense, hate-filled brawl that had a cool story of "let's kill Teddy". Kingston and 'Cide form a VERY loose partnership, and it works so well because they both try taking Teddy out, and as soon as they have some 'spare time' so to speak, they're back to killing each other and stabbing each other in the back. BTW, Hart moonsaults off of everything. Literally everything. The fans even count along (total was 5 or 6 I think). At 18:50 (which is 13:50 in the match or so), Kingston does the most badass/coolest thing that made me literally scream "OH MY GOD!" and re-watched it three times...but I won't spoil it. Easily one of the best JAPW matches I've ever seen, and I've seen their 'classics'. Very low end MOTYC but worth checking out. ****
> 
> Check the Indy section to download the match.
> 
> EDIT- Forgot Homicide's line of the night-
> 
> "Teddy! Teddy! You're uncle's a ******!"


God damn't, now I have to download this.


----------



## Spartanlax

Check the indy section in half an hour, the link I posted was dead, re-upping it now.


----------



## -Mystery-

Teddy Hart and 4 stars just seems....unnatural.


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH Tag Wars 2008 - MCMG vs. AOTF - ****1/4*

Great tag match here. The Guns were WAY over with the crowd. I'd say 90-100% behind them. They played up Shelly and Jacobs history which I didn't know much about but their interaction made it clear that there was a intense hatred and/or jealousy between them. 

The tag team combos from both team were really awesome and I loved that they didn't do a bunch of high risk spots or hardcore stuff and just focused on wrestling. 

Don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it:


Spoiler



The ending was a bit disappointing, I really didn't expect Shelly to tap and by the sounds of it neither did the crowd. They showed their displeasure by throwing a barrage of trash at Jacobs and Black. Pretty funny stuff actually.


----------



## KingKicks

ROH Tag Wars 2008

MCMG vs. AOTF *****1/2*

Briscoes vs. Aries/Ibushi *****1/4*

Ibushi is so much better in tag matches IMO.


----------



## IC

Yeah I give MCMG/AOTF *****½* too.

Was Team Mexico (I think it was Guerrero & Bucanero but not sure tbh) vs Speed Muscle from Impact any good?


----------



## PulseGlazer

Instant Classic™ said:


> Yeah I give MCMG/AOTF *****½* too.
> 
> Was Team Mexico (I think it was Guerrero & Bucanero but not sure tbh) vs Speed Muscle from Impact any good?


Luchariffic, if that's your thing.


----------



## Taroostyles

I thought it was like ***1/2 or so.(Team Mexico/Team Japan)

Almost as good as the Speed Muscle/MCMG match, but not quite.


----------



## DRodri90

The Rey Bucanero & Ultimo Guerrero vs Speed Muscle was a good match, but no a MOTY, I give it ***3/4


----------



## Caponex75

*PWG- Kevin Steen & El Generico(c) vs. Super Dragon and Davey Richards II for the PWG World Tag Team Titles*


Spoiler



For those that do not know, this is my current tag MOTYC but you should also know that I also had problems figuring out the story in this match despite liking so freakin much. I finally found a torrent of this again so I can rip a more high quality one this time and I actually think I finally found the story. Allot of it plays off of their match the night before, their styles, and some of the feuds they had in the past. Pre-match you can already tell Davey & Dragon are a little bit pissed at the fact they aren't wearing gold while Steenrico, not so much. Dragon and Davey try to become more calm of the situation by doing something that brightens their day and that is by shitting on something. However, whenever they try to do so, Steen foils their plan, and ends up shitting on them which gets them frustrated as well as pissing them off a little bit more. Now we are actually onto the match where Davey fails in trying to outwrestle Steen/Generico. Now this is where I started to notice the story beginning as Davey never really got full demanding control in his chain wrestling untill he kicked Generico in the face. That causes Steen to make the tag, outwrestle Davey, and tags back in his partner.


This is where styles come to play as Davey says "To hell with the wrestling" and starts kicking the shit out of Generico before tagging in Super Dragon. Super Dragon goes off on Generico and this turns into a grade A brawl which plays in the favor of the challengers. That is really good storytelling that I didn't notice before because I was thinking it was "They know each other" kind of shit. I like how SDDR take control of the match up when they start throwing tem bows or whatever you kids say these days. Steen finally gets into the match up, renews his feud with Dragon for about a second, and uses his highflying abillity to take him out of the match for a sec. Steen wins in a short battle against Davey and wrestles his way to avoid the striking of Richards(Like when Davey went for the roundhouse kick and it ended up being turned against him into that neckbreaker Steen uses). Generico uses his highflying to elminate Super Dragon for awhile and that's another show of how the styles are playing against one another. Steen & Generico are using their highflying/fun offense to keep themselves on the winning side.

Anyway, Steen BLANTLEY guides Generico into what they are going to do next which is also a hidden gem in the story of the match. While SDDR are pissed and whatnot, Steen is just taking them lightly and not being as Uber SERIOUS~ as they are. This has been a trait that he has been showing through the whole match actually. Well to the match up, Steen being so light hearted in this match ends up getting him a kick to the face by Richards as he yells for Dragon to get on the apron(Kinda like that more then the partner knowing exactly where to be). Dragon and Generico tag in and Generico does his OLE~ arm drag only to get caught in a backbreaker. Now to think of it, both of Steenrico are taking it easy in the match and their fun style isn't exactly paying off for them. Dragon curbstomps his ass and this sets up for a Powerbomb/Lung blower combination move. Generico finds his way out of the move and ducks a Enziguri attempt by Davey which ends up hitting Dragon.

Davey STOs him stupid for that but gets caught by Steen with a gutbuster, Steen misses the moonsault so he gets lariated out of his shoes by Dragon, Generico saves his partner from a Psycho Driver coming up by Half-Nelsoning Dragon, Davey hits him with the alarm clock, Steen catches Davey running at him and powerbombs his ass, and all four men are down. Big sequence which was pretty awesome but I don't think was nessacary for the story of the match. Davey clotheslines Steen over the top and Dragon gets a shoulder full of steel trying to attack Generico. Steenrico once again gets control with their highflying and just about nearly win the match after a Swanton Bomb/Splash combination. Steen starts to show he is taking this match cooler then everyone else again and starts instructing Generico in a very obvious manner. Generico tag out after failing to hit the Super Brain BUSTAH~! and Steen tries to go for the Package Piledriver but Davey wrestles him into the double stomp/Back cruncher combo. Karma. 


Dragon takes the time out of his day to HURL HIS BODY AT GENERICO ON THE OUTSIDE WHILE DAVEY GOES FOR THE PIN THAT GETS 2!! Karma, Irony, I don't know the word but the shit that was working earlier for Steenrico is now being used against them! Davey wants to end this with the SSP but Steen stops him and STILL showing how much of a jackass he is by taking this lightly as he calls for the Brainbustah! So in response, Davey & Super Dragon brutalize Steen untill he can't see straight and Generico makes the save. Fucking A! Dragon tosses him to the floor as Davey goes up top! Dragon kills Generico outside with a Psycho Driver and Davey wins the match after a beautifull SSP! That is some great ass storytelling with some great action to follow. Champs took the duo lightly and ended up paying for it.


Great job with the styles, how the reaction was to the match the night before, and just working the whole ordeal. Steen did a fantastic job being a cocky asshole, as well as Generico, and SDDR did a good job at being those unhappy bastards not being able to get thier way. Side note but Dragon getting the fan back for saying something smart to him was awesome. I might rate this higher after realising how good of storytelling this was but I'm going to post the same rating as before. No idea to as to why I wrote so much but I just like getting into detail.
****1/4


----------



## Sephiroth

ROH Vendetta II
Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ******
Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ***** 1/2*


----------



## ROH

Caponex75 said:


> *PWG- Kevin Steen & El Generico(c) vs. Super Dragon and Davey Richards II for the PWG World Tag Team Titles*
> ****1/4


Ugh, this pissed me off on DVD...the camera angles were so bad, really ruined lots of it.


----------



## Caponex75

They were? I thought they were fine untill the end where Steen had to direct the camera to rotate the camera.


----------



## ROH

Caponex75 said:


> They were? I thought they were fine untill the end where Steen had to direct the camera to rotate the camera.


I distinctly remember at least 2 big spots ruined (well maybe not totally ruined, but made worse) by that stupid IPW dork weilding the camera.


----------



## Caponex75

I think you may be talking about their first match in France. Only spot that was ruined by the camera was the CURBSTOMP~!


----------



## - Styles -

Cena vs HHH at NOC - *****1/4*


----------



## Taroostyles

Cena/HHH-***3/4-****


----------



## Saint Dick

HHH/Cena - ****1/4

Big match feel to it, great atmosphere, great work by both men, good chemistry between the two, excellent selling by Triple H in particular, and a hot finishing sequence. Great match.


----------



## Caponex75

Taroostyles said:


> Cena/HHH-***3/4-****


Change that rating or I will find you 

Incredible fucking match. I actually think that was better than both of Cena's matches with HBK.


----------



## Taroostyles

What's wrong with that rating?

I really liked the match, saying something is 4 stars or close to it should mean you really liked the match.(Which I did)

I would probably lean towards the **** side of it tho. So most people are giving it 1/4* higher, no big deal.


----------



## DRodri90

HHH vs Cena >>> ****1/4


----------



## Sephiroth

Night of Champions
WWE Heavyweight Championship: HHH(c) vs. John Cena - ******

Dragon Gate Challenge 2
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - ***** 1/4*
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Shingo & BxB Hulk - ******

Return Engagement
Non-Title Match: The Briscoes(c) vs. The Murder City Machine Guns - ***** 1/2 (Possibly **** 3/4)* 

Everything is so smooth and well done. They packed in a more meaningful match than their last match, which is about 10 minutes longer. They don't look like they are anticipating the next big spot and everything just flows perfectly. 

This is a much better match than their first encounter.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*6.29.08 WWE Title Match: HHH v John Cena (WWE Night of Champions):*

Fan-effin’-tastic match! Going into this I knew the result, but it still immersed me in a way that many matches I don’t know the result of could. The first part of the match was great, in that it established both guys as being on the same level – the top level – while being evenly matched at the same time. The payback shoulderblock, vertical suplex and crotch chop/salute spots enforced that idea. The one difference seemed to be that HHH had the edge in the cerebral (no pun intended) department, outsmarting Cena by ducking his flying shoulderblock, sending him flying outside the ring. This first part seemed (actually, the whole match seemed) like a “battle for dominance” deal between the two top dogs in the company over who really was THE alpha-male… and it fuckin’ ruled! 

From there it’s both guys going after the other while trying to maintain that dominance, even busting out some of their big time moves in the process, before Hunter takes his favourite turnbuckle bump and flies over the ropes, selling his knee on the landing. I have to applaud his sell job, not just here, but for the entire match, as it really was fantastic. Cena, squeaky clean babyface or not, goes right after it with a chop block and starts to pick it apart as the crowd pretty much boo the shit out of him. It’s awesome (not that everybody’s “turning” on him or anything, since I actually like him, but just for the crowd’s reaction)!

Then it’s the awesome finishing stretch! Both guys go full throttle and, like the entire match, it’s so damn great. Cena constantly going for the STFU since Hunter’s leg is pretty much done at this point was great; Hunter fighting out of it with everything he had, managing to lock on a desperation Crossface was another nice bit of psychology as it focused on Cena’s recently injured pectoral and back which Trips worked over briefly in the opening stages; the back and forth fist fight was SO GREAT because it really showed that both of these guys, even though they don’t hate each other, just won’t go away and they both desperately want that title – it’s pretty much the perfect way to demonstrate an “alpha-male A vs. alpha-male B” battle, right in the middle of the ring. Oh, and the crowd are going completely batshit through all of this.

Finally, after a freakin’ war, Hunter manages to get the upper hand he needs and hits the Pedigree, retaining the strap in the process. Their Wrestlemania match was a fantastic match in it’s own right, but I think that particular match was helped immensely by the crowd; this match was, for me anyway, on another level as far as the actually work in the ring went, as well as having another awesome crowd to back it up. In a word, this was epic! *****1/4 *


----------



## -GP-

I liked HHH-Cena as well. 

Loved the early bits which were much more "indy style" in terms of story (the 'one-up'ing and countering) than the regular punch-kick stuff the WWE style dictates and they really worked off both of the guy's movesets despite not having that much of a history together.
Cena goes all out on the leg without remorse and the way he bends H's leg on one of the STFUs was really nice-looking.
STFUing him made sense on all sorts of levels, both in going after the injured leg and being the move he beat him with in the past.

My only complain is the somewhat sloppy move execution in the first stages, which holds it back from being a definite 4+1/4...
I'd say ****-****1/4


----------



## Saint Dick

How do you guys think HHH/Cena matches up with Edge/Taker? I think it's just as good. Maybe better.


----------



## -Mystery-

Ownage™ said:


> How do you guys think HHH/Cena matches up with Edge/Taker? I think it's just as good. Maybe better.


Better than Backlash and Judgment Day but nowhere near the Mania match and close to the One Night Stand match.


----------



## Taroostyles

I thought it was definitely better than the BL, JD, and ONS matches but probably not quite as good as the WM match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I actually prefer it to the Edge/'Taker matches. I've got both the Wrestlemania and TLC matches at ****1/4 too, but HHH/Cena is just my favourite ahead of them. I'd need to re-watch the 'Mania match before deciding on which was actually _better_ though. Either way, HHH/Cena is my second favourite WWE match this year, behind HBK/Flair.


----------



## Blasko

Kobashi/KENTA vs. K Office. 

***** 3/4*

Fucking amazing stuff. My new MOTY, atm.


----------



## Saint Dick

Andy3000 said:


> I actually prefer it to the Edge/'Taker matches. I've got both the Wrestlemania and TLC matches at ****1/4 too, but HHH/Cena is just my favourite ahead of them. I'd need to re-watch the 'Mania match before deciding on which was actually _better_ though. Either way, HHH/Cena is my second favourite WWE match this year, behind HBK/Flair.


Same. :agree: I'm not sure if HHH/Cena is better but I definitely enjoyed it more than the Edge/Taker matches.


----------



## Tom Ormo

HHH/Cena - Night of Champions 2008 - ****.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Punk vs. Edge *****

You guys can do it for a moment, so can I!


----------



## Derek

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Kobashi/KENTA vs. K Office.
> 
> ***** 3/4*
> 
> Fucking amazing stuff. My new MOTY, atm.


I was thinking you'd really like it. I really want to see the KENTA/Nakajima match from the previous day (I know Sephiroth said it was the day after, but I checked. The Kensuke office match was on 6/13, and the NOAH tag match was 6/14).

I really hope somebody uploads the KENTA/Nakajima match, I'm dying to see it.


----------



## Blasko

I, too, wish to find the Nakajima/KENTA match. Their exchanges were pretty amazing. 

Like the G2S counter into a fucking ankle lock. Great shit.


----------



## Sephiroth

Derek said:


> I was thinking you'd really like it. I really want to see the KENTA/Nakajima match from the previous day (I know Sephiroth said it was the day after, but I checked. The Kensuke office match was on 6/13, and the NOAH tag match was 6/14).
> 
> I really hope somebody uploads the KENTA/Nakajima match, I'm dying to see it.


I blame Green Destiny for getting the dates wrong. I checked Shining Road and they agree with you.


----------



## TheFox

How can you guys rate HHH/Cena ****+ match ?I'd rather be anally raped with a pirate's wooden leg that watch this again.
It was the most boring match on the card.2 * Knee Lift (HHH), 3 * Proto Bomb (Cena), 5 min of "Petter Griffin's Ouch! My Knee!" (HHH), countless Pedigree, FU, si STFU attempts and the rest of the match just punches.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

TheFox said:


> How can you guys rate HHH/Cena ****+ match ?I'd rather be anally raped with a pirate's wooden leg that watch this again.
> It was the most boring match on the card.2 * Knee Lift (HHH), 3 * Proto Bomb (Cena), 5 min of "Petter Griffin's Ouch! My Knee!" (HHH), countless Pedigree, FU, si STFU attempts and the rest of the match just punches.


Well, I don't agree with this at all, but fair play to you if you hated it. I stated why I loved it as much as I did in the previous page anyway.


----------



## -Mystery-

All from WXW's 16 Carat Gold tournament.

-Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****
-Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
-Alex Pain vs. Steve Douglas - N/R (Some could consider it a MOTYC hence why it's listed...think ROH's Ladder War)
-Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
-Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
-Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****1/4 - ****1/2

After seeing this tournament, it's gonna be hard for anyone to knock off Dragon as WOTY.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Holy fuck... I really need that tournament. I was intending on waiting a couple weeks since I bought an absolute shit load of wrestling DVDs in June, but I'm seriously tempted to order it right now! I probably won't get around to watching it until 2009 though with all of the DVDs I have that I still haven't watched yet.


----------



## Sephiroth

Good thing I downloaded Quack vs. Dragon. Now if someone will download Hero vs. Dragon and I'd like to say...why the fuck can't they have a match that good in ROH? It would definitely shut up some Hero haters.


----------



## McQueen

Andy3000 said:


> Holy fuck... I really need that tournament. I was intending on waiting a couple weeks since I bought an absolute shit load of wrestling DVDs in June, but I'm seriously tempted to order it right now! I probably won't get around to watching it until 2009 though with all of the DVDs I have that I still haven't watched yet.


Yes you do Absolute Andy3000.

I'd personally add Marufuji/Doug Williams from night one as well, that was my 3rd favorite match (behind Hero/Danielson and Bones/Danielson). And yeah if you love Briscoe style overkill you'll love that Pain/Douglas match, it was pretty goddamned crazy.


----------



## Sephiroth

*A New Level*
Davey Richards & Rocky Romero vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen - ***** - **** 1/4*
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ***** 1/2*

(I'm so torn on giving the tag match **** or **** 1/4)

Wow, what a show so far and I only just finished Dragon/Marufuji (which is 4 matches in). Marufuji always surprises me with how amazing he is. Great stuff in the singles match. 

Lol, El Generico fan is awesome at the end of the tag match .


----------



## -GP-

Dammit i'm getting behind on these things! Got a crapload of things i have to watch... (or is that a  ?)
Need 16 Carat Gold btw.


----------



## KingKicks

Sephiroth said:


> *A New Level*
> Davey Richards & Rocky Romero vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen - ***** - **** 1/4*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ***** 1/2*
> 
> (I'm so torn on giving the tag match **** or **** 1/4)
> 
> Wow, what a show so far and I only just finished Dragon/Marufuji (which is 4 matches in). Marufuji always surprises me with how amazing he is. Great stuff in the singles match.
> 
> Lol, El Generico fan is awesome at the end of the tag match .


Looking forward to A New Level alot more now.

16 Carat Gold tournament looks amazing, going to have to pick that up soon.


----------



## Maxx Hero

-Mystery- said:


> All from WXW's 16 Carat Gold tournament.
> 
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Alex Pain vs. Steve Douglas - N/R (Some could consider it a MOTYC hence why it's listed...think ROH's Ladder War)
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
> -Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****1/4 - ****1/2
> 
> After seeing this tournament, it's gonna be hard for anyone to knock off Dragon as WOTY.


Holy fuck! It was that good! 

I was just gonna get the last night, but damn!


----------



## -Mystery-

McQueen said:


> Yes you do Absolute Andy3000.
> 
> I'd personally add Marufuji/Doug Williams from night one as well, that was my 3rd favorite match (behind Hero/Danielson and Bones/Danielson). And yeah if you love Briscoe style overkill you'll love that Pain/Douglas match, it was pretty goddamned crazy.


You didn't tell me you finished watching. What did you think of Hero/Danielson?

Also, I was close to rating Marufuji/Williams 4 stars so maybe I'll go back and watch it.


----------



## KingCrash

-Mystery- said:


> All from WXW's 16 Carat Gold tournament.
> 
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Alex Pain vs. Steve Douglas - N/R (Some could consider it a MOTYC hence why it's listed...think ROH's Ladder War)
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
> -Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****1/4 - ****1/2
> 
> After seeing this tournament, it's gonna be hard for anyone to knock off Dragon as WOTY.


Just finished watching up to Hero/Danielson and I can't believe I didn't order this. Fortunately my brother was stupid enough to give me his disks which he will never get back.


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> All from WXW's 16 Carat Gold tournament.
> 
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Alex Pain vs. Steve Douglas - N/R (Some could consider it a MOTYC hence why it's listed...think ROH's Ladder War)
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
> -Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> -Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****1/4 - ****1/2
> 
> After seeing this tournament, it's gonna be hard for anyone to knock off Dragon as WOTY.


Apparently I have to add this to my ever growing pile of stuff I won't be able to watch. Where should I order this from? The WXW website?


----------



## -Mystery-

peep4life said:


> Apparently I have to add this to my ever growing pile of stuff I won't be able to watch. Where should I order this from? The WXW website?


ROH might still have it in stock and you could get 20% off. If not, SMV is where it can be found.


----------



## dele

5/23/2008

200 Lighttubes + Lighttube Boards Deathmatch

T. Sasaki, Miyamoto, Numazawa vs Shadow WX, Ito, Kobayashi

**** and the best deathmatch BJW has put on this year. +1/4 for the aftermath (which saw Kasai return and tell Ito, Sasaki, Miyamoto, WX, and Abby Jr that they are all wimps compared to him).


----------



## Blasko

Someone NEEDS to start upping BJW again, I've been left out of the loop for months now.


----------



## Kawada55

Match of the year so far..

Kobashi & KENTA vs Sasaki and Nakajima

Anyone know where to find Nakajima vs KENTA?


----------



## McQueen

-Mystery- said:


> You didn't tell me you finished watching. What did you think of Hero/Danielson?
> 
> Also, I was close to rating Marufuji/Williams 4 stars so maybe I'll go back and watch it.


Ahh yeah I finished it on my vacation weekend. I need to rewatch Bone/Danielson since I was half asleep when I watched it. I wonder why Mot Van Kunder (and this is no joke) had a dildo with him. :lmao

I really loved Danielson/Hero especially Dragon out smarting him for the win, plus the crowd was really awesome since Hero is a god to them and Dragon is the anti-christ for some reason.


----------



## -Mystery-

Yeah, Hero/Danielson was quite brilliant. Hero attacking Danielson's arm to hinder his offense was incredibly smart as was Danielson attacking Hero's nose to cause him trouble breathing because Danielson intended to stretch the match out. Then, Danielson wrestling a slow pace and stalling was absolutely brilliant because he was trying to take the crowd out of the match. As for the finish, I absolutely loved it. It fit perfectly with the match and Danielson's persona. 

I thought Danielson/Bones was almost as good as Hero/Danielson. Just a tremendous underdog story. It reminded me a lot of Danielson's match at Ring of Homicide with Delirious but this was even better because Danielson was a full blown dickhead. 

Absolutely awesome stuff from Danielson the entire tournament.


----------



## Sephiroth

Edit: Wrong Thread


----------



## dele

Kawada55 said:


> Match of the year so far..
> 
> Kobashi & KENTA vs Sasaki and Nakajima
> 
> Anyone know where to find Nakajima vs KENTA?


I'm still giving it to Sekimoto/Y Sasaki vs T Sasaki/Miyamoto.

Edit: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...00-lighttubes-lighttube-boards-5-23-08-a.html

There's the deathmatch I rated above.


----------



## PulseGlazer

I'm wildly behind on my Puro and WxW 16 Karat is waiting... nevertheless... 

NEW MOTY

Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns - Return Engagement **** 3/4

We begin with MCMG owning, showing new double team the Briscoes don't know and a willingness to take shortcuts to get ahead that lets them end in control of most exchanges, though, as always, the Briscoes are close behind. Finally, the Guns do a miscommunication spot, that allows the Briscoes to control. Being so awesome at combos, the Briscoes do a lot of damage fast and control Shelley until that willingness to cheat rears it's head again and MCMG regain control. Some eye rakes then allow Sabin to dive and it's clear the Briscoes are a step behind this encounter.

The Briscoes finally fight fire with fire, isolating Sabin and keeping Shelley off the apron. Sabin's workover is sold beautifully, stiff and really well done. Awesomely, from here on out, Sabin can't get more than a move or two in a row without collapsing from how badly he's been beaten. Shelley's hot tag leads to numerous tag sequences, with things that worked in the first match and even earlier in this one not working now, but it's clear that Briscoe are at a disadvantage in the tag work department, a departure from last year where they were barely superior at that. 

The Briscoes get desparate and start inventing new combos on the spot. This turns out successful and leads to an out-of-nowhere Jay Driller, which Sabin manages to kick out of, having gotten a decent amount of rest while Shelley did the bulk of the work for several minutes. He then eats a Springboard Doomsday, having no energy left to fight out, and is saved by Shelley at the last second. Shelley takes out Jay and himself, as Mark goes for a shooting star on the downed Sabin. Sabin knows its coming from their last match (awesomely pointed out by the commentary) and moves, getting the huge tag to Shelley. 

Mark is hurt so Shelley goes with the Sliced Bread #2. Mark is strong enough to escape that, so Shelley goes up. Jay stops him, but with his last bit of energy Sabin hits a super German suplex. Mark manages to climb up to try and stop Shelley, but Shelley suckerred him and Mark's still too weak. A Super Sliced Bread #2 finishes. 

This was incredibly well done with only a bit of off selling from (who else) Mark keeping it from the full 5, but even Mark was far better than usual. The Guns stepped up their tag game and used cheating to keep ahead of the Briscoes, but when Jay and Mark's hands were forced they started trying new things. Unfortunately, they only really weakenned Sabin, but not enough that he had nothing and he was able to come through in a big moment due to knowing his opponents from the last encounter and Shelley, the freshest man in the match, was able to finish.

Wow.


----------



## johncenarockz10

I have three ties:
John Cena vs Triple H (NOC) - ****1/4 (alot better than wm22, shocking ending)
Edge vs Undertaker TLC (ONS) - ****1/4 (very unpredictable)
Ric Flair vs Shawn Michael (WM24) - ****1/4 (the emotion factor brings it up)

However I think I'm leaning towards the TLC match. The ending shocked the hell outta me even though I was pulling for Edge to win. Great match.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> I'm wildly behind on my Puro and WxW 16 Karat is waiting... nevertheless...
> 
> NEW MOTY
> 
> Briscoes vs. Murder City Machine Guns - Return Engagement **** 3/4
> 
> We begin with MCMG owning, showing new double team the Briscoes don't know and a willingness to take shortcuts to get ahead that lets them end in control of most exchanges, though, as always, the Briscoes are close behind. Finally, the Guns do a miscommunication spot, that allows the Briscoes to control. Being so awesome at combos, the Briscoes do a lot of damage fast and control Shelley until that willingness to cheat rears it's head again and MCMG regain control. Some eye rakes then allow Sabin to dive and it's clear the Briscoes are a step behind this encounter.
> 
> The Briscoes finally fight fire with fire, isolating Sabin and keeping Shelley off the apron. Sabin's workover is sold beautifully, stiff and really well done.  Awesomely, from here on out, Sabin can't get more than a move or two in a row without collapsing from how badly he's been beaten. Shelley's hot tag leads to numerous tag sequences, with things that worked in the first match and even earlier in this one not working now, but it's clear that Briscoe are at a disadvantage in the tag work department, a departure from last year where they were barely superior at that.
> 
> The Briscoes get desparate and start inventing new combos on the spot. This turns out successful and leads to an out-of-nowhere Jay Driller, which Sabin manages to kick out of, having gotten a decent amount of rest while Shelley did the bulk of the work for several minutes. He then eats a Springboard Doomsday, having no energy left to fight out, and is saved by Shelley at the last second. Shelley takes out Jay and himself, as Mark goes for a shooting star on the downed Sabin. Sabin knows its coming from their last match (awesomely pointed out by the commentary) and moves, getting the huge tag to Shelley.
> 
> Mark is hurt so Shelley goes with the Sliced Bread #2. Mark is strong enough to escape that, so Shelley goes up. Jay stops him, but with his last bit of energy Sabin hits a super German suplex. Mark manages to climb up to try and stop Shelley, but Shelley suckerred him and Mark's still too weak. A Super Sliced Bread #2 finishes.
> 
> This was incredibly well done with only a bit of off selling from (who else) Mark keeping it from the full 5, but even Mark was far better than usual. The Guns stepped up their tag game and used cheating to keep ahead of the Briscoes, but when Jay and Mark's hands were forced they started trying new things. Unfortunately, they only really weakenned Sabin, but not enough that he had nothing and he was able to come through in a big moment due to knowing his opponents from the last encounter and Shelley, the freshest man in the match, was able to finish.
> 
> Wow.


You didn't mention the best part of the match...Sabin's plancha over Sinclair and the top rope and landing in the front row on his feet and dishing out the high fives


----------



## watts63

Hey guys, I had missed a whole month because of my sorry ass laptop (which I still don't have yet) & internet connection. 

So...what matches did I miss since late may & june?


----------



## Sephiroth

watts63 said:


> Hey guys, I had missed a whole month because of my sorry ass laptop (which I still don't have yet) & internet connection.
> 
> So...what matches did I miss since late may & june?


um...CM Punk is champ


----------



## KingKicks

watts63 said:


> Hey guys, I had missed a whole month because of my sorry ass laptop (which I still don't have yet) & internet connection.
> 
> So...what matches did I miss since late may & june?


The ***** moment of Punk winning the World Heavyweight Title?

Other then that, Kobashi/KENTA vs. Sasaki/Nakajima is the first i'd recommend.


----------



## watts63

Benjo™ said:


> The ***** moment of Punk winning the World Heavyweight Title?
> 
> Other then that, Kobashi/KENTA vs. Sasaki/Nakajima is the first i'd recommend.


I saw that...that was the greatest thing I ever seen in my life. I still cry when I see Punk with that World Title.


----------



## -Mystery-

*cough*16 Carat Gold tournament*cough*


----------



## vivalabrave

You should ge that cough checked out...













































...and _I_ need to check out 16 Carat Gold like....yesterday. :agree:


----------



## Caponex75

I'm curious to what you guys think of the Stevens FIP title match up in the beginning of the year. I didn't think it was possible but people like Danielson/Stevens allot more then his match with Stevens. What do you guys think?


----------



## McQueen

Strong/Stevens from Redefined (if thats what your talking about) is right now sitting at **** 1/2 and is my current MOTY. I have yet to watch Dragon/Stevens or Aries/Stevens.

I'm going to go watch DoubleKenta vs K. Office now.


----------



## Caponex75

Whoops. Actually ment to put his match with Aries. I got a link to Aries/Stevens if anyone wants it.


----------



## Blasko

McQueen said:


> I'm going to go watch DoubleKenta vs K. Office now.


 **** 3/4, imo. 

I need to watch the KENTA tags. He's being having a great year.


----------



## McQueen

I've been too distracted to watch the match yet. But i'll have it viewed by the weekend.


----------



## Blasko

Quit phone sexing and strap down. 

Oh, add my new msn pls


----------



## McQueen

Yeam PM or rep me it and i'll have it up in a bit.


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> I'm going to go watch DoubleKenta vs K. Office now.


From what i'm hearing that could just nip ahead of Tanaka/Sekimoto from 4/28 on my list...i'll probably watch it sometime soon.
Need to be in proper fired-up Wrestling Watching~! mood to watch this sort of stuff...can't just squeeze them in between Mythbuster and going out like any ol' match :agree:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GP_Punk said:


> From what i'm hearing that could just nip ahead of Tanaka/Sekimoto from 4/28 on my list...i'll probably watch it sometime soon.
> Need to be in proper fired-up Wrestling Watching~! mood to watch this sort of stuff...can't just squeeze them in between Mythbuster and going out like any ol' match :agree:


Pretty much the reason I've not watched any puro in freakin' ages. I'm actually really, really looking forward to seeing Tanaka/Seki as well as a few more pimped matches, but I never seem in the mood to watch puro at the moment. That Kentas/K. Office tag is another match I'll add to my "must-watch" list.


----------



## Sephiroth

Hey Indy Trolls, the Briscoes vs. MCMG from Return Engagement has been uploaded and is in the Indy Media section. Go see it now!


----------



## -GP-

Sephiroth said:


> Hey Indy Trolls, the Briscoes vs. MCMG from Return Engagement has been uploaded and is in the Indy Media section. Go see it now!


...i love you


----------



## Sephiroth

GP_Punk said:


> ...i love you


Thank KingCrash for the epic download. You can thank me later when I upload KENTA vs. Nakajima from the Kenskay Office show.


----------



## Caponex75

You're awesome


----------



## Blasko

Daneilson's wXw matches, MCMG/Briscoes AND KENTA/Nakajima?

I'm out of breath. :$


----------



## Caponex75

Briscoe/MCMG II - ****2/4(Can I give it that >_>)

Match was nowhere near as good as the last one.


----------



## Spartanlax

Caponex75 said:


> Briscoe/MCMG II - ****2/4(Can I give it that >_>)
> 
> Match was nowhere near as good as the last one.


You sure can give it that, but around here we call it ****1/2.

Nowhere near as good as the last one? I'm assuming you gave the last one five stars...half a star off is actually REALLY near as good.


----------



## McQueen

I thought it was much better tbh because they didn't need to resort to offencive amounts of overkill and storytelling in that match was much better. MCMG/Briscoes II (**** 1/2) is now sitting at my #2 spot behind FIP Redefined's ME.

Still need to see DoubleKenta vs K. Office though.


----------



## Caponex75

****1/4 to ****3/4 then. Ireally don't think it came even fucking close to it. I gave the Briscoes/MCMG I the full ***** stars. One of the besst tag matches I have ever seen.


----------



## Caponex75

What's with this overkill nonsense about the first one? Only time I could agree about overkill in a match up is in the AOTF/MCMG match. They really over did it and took me & The crowd just plain out of the match.

You'll REALLY enjoy KENTA & Kobashi vs. The Kensuake Office. I don't think there was one time where I was actually bored with the match....


edit: Can someone edit this in with my other comment?


----------



## McQueen

Overkill in the fact the last 10 minutes was just them hitting spots over and over (many of which could have easily ended the match, I don't like the fact that the Briscoes have a bunch of offence that should be finisher quality yet they use them like they are normal moves). without any rhyme or reason.


----------



## Derek

Caponex75 said:


> What's with this overkill nonsense about the first one?


They way I can explain it is like this:

Here's the match story: We're two of the best teams in the world. We've held gold here, we've held gold in Japan......


MOVEZ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## roh_sucks

McQueen said:


> Overkill in the fact the last 10 minutes was just them hitting spots over and over (many of which could have easily ended the match, I don't like the fact that the Briscoes have a bunch of offence that should be finisher quality yet they use them like they are normal moves). without any rhyme or reason.


I'd rather see a bunch of spots than someone in a headlock for 10 minutes.


----------



## Caponex75

McQueen said:


> Overkill in the fact the last 10 minutes was just them hitting spots over and over (many of which could have easily ended the match, I don't like the fact that the Briscoes have a bunch of offence that should be finisher quality yet they use them like they are normal moves). without any rhyme or reason.


Well I liked it. They did kinda have a story with them finally getting their hands on Mark(Who had been concussed not to long before the match) and creating some fantastic near falls out of him. I don't think it was overkill due to the fact it wasn't Mark kicking out of everything but Jay barely saving his brother while they were going after his concussed head. Shelley showing he was going to die in his house but got put down in a fitting fashion to what was to be the "Best tag teams going at it". By a tag team Tag team maneuver. Also Mark hitting the shooting star was great and showed how big the situation was to bust it out.


----------



## Blasko

Chris Hero vs. Bryan Danielson, 16 Carrot Semi Final

*******

You heard me. absolutely AMAZING from the start to the finish. I was hooked after the opening bell and wanted more from both men. The arm spots with Danielson made me CRINGE with the snapping effects. Ofcourse, Danielson forgot selling the arm every once in a while, but it is easily over looked with the hot crown and intense final moments AND the amazing conclusion. The ammount of heat Danielson god made me fear for his life after the match was over.


----------



## Sephiroth

God damn't, I was gonna go to bed, but now I need to watch it


----------



## Caponex75

I personally think Inoki overrated the match. Danielson's selling was horrid and it seemed like the arm work had never happened. If they didn't do the spot where it actually made me yelp at Hero looking as if he broke Danielson's arm then I probably wouldn't o been so pissed. I mean he does a suicide dive and acts like this is the beginning of the match up. Ugh....Germany fans are pretty horrible but they never effect the match for me. At least they're into it and not no selling it like NY did Strong/Stevens. Hero got some control back of the arm and Dragon sells it this time......until they start hitting each other with forearms so Dragon chooses to no sell it yet AGAIN! I mean honestly! 


I did like the fact tho that Danielson knew how to resist his own holds and punished Hero for trying to snatch the Crossface Chickenwing on him. Danielson goes for a headbutt but Hero catches him in the cravate and cravate bottom or whatever it is called for a close nearfall. Hangman's Clutch on him but decides to drg him to the center and turn it into a STF-Cravate. Don't see the point in going to the STF and trapping the leg when he had been working on the arm for most of the match. Ehh. Superplex by Danielson as he tries to get back into the match. Trade strikes and Hero takes off his shirt to show how fucking serious he is! They trade forearms and Hero nearly knocks his ass out with a roaring one but Danielson headbutts the shit out of him so hard Hero falls into the ref. Hitting the low low and using the SMALL PACKAGE~!

This match had to many faults. ****-****1/2(Mercy Rating)

Dragon is not having that good of a year at all.


----------



## -Mystery-

Danielson isn't having a good year? Please don't make me list all his 4 star matches compared to others who get praised.

Also, glad to see Blasko pimping the match big time because it deserves it.

By the way, Danielson's selling was perfect in the context of the match. I'll go into that more later today.


----------



## seabs

*Just watched 3 serious MOTYC this weekend 

MCMG/AOTF Tag Wars 08 
****1/4-1/2
Ending wasnt great.


Spoiler



Shelley shouldn't have tapped.



MCMG/Briscoes Return Engagement 
****1/2
Different kind of match to their first one. 1st one was better imo but this one is still awesome.

Hero/Danielson 16 Carat Gold 
****1/2
Not worthy of the full 5 that Blasko gave it imo but still awesome. *


----------



## Caponex75

-Mystery- said:


> Danielson isn't having a good year? Please don't make me list all his 4 star matches compared to others who get praised.
> 
> Also, glad to see Blasko pimping the match big time because it deserves it.
> 
> By the way, Danielson's selling was perfect in the context of the match. I'll go into that more later today.


I found his match with Nigel pretty stupid. Not because the "No one tells me how to wrestle" thing but the fact he said he wouldn't go after the head yet he is dropping him on it constantly? His match with Tyler & Stevens were great but **** stars great....not all that MOTY nonsense. I'll give his match with Low-Ki was overrated. Guy hasn't been as good as previous years.

Anyway, NRC vs. NOAH ****-****1/2 Rocky stood out more than anyone o_0


----------



## -Mystery-

You misunderstand what Danielson meant by not attacking the head. He meant not full head shots (i.e. headbutts, elbows, and stomps). He didn't hit anything from my memory that was a complete head shot.

If **** isn't a MOTYC, what the fuck is? Danielson has had more 4 star matches than Black, Nigel, Stevens, etc yet those guys are getting WOTY praise. Right now, Danielson is the WOTY until someone starts putting on better quality matches than him.


----------



## Caponex75

**** to me is a very great match but not a MOTY and are you kidding me? Nigel has been busting his ass for the better part of this year putting on some MOTY matches(BOTH of his matches against Aries, the Black match(Heh), against Strong, and a hell of allot more). Hell, Aries has been doing the same as well and Strong has been tearing up the year mostly with Stevens. Danielson ain't nowhere near wrestler of the year when he has yet to even put on any type of match like the three guys I just named.


----------



## KeepItFresh

If Nigel is the wrestler of the year he would have had a better match with Stevens in my estimation.


----------



## -Mystery-

Nigel has had 4 great matches this year (against Aries, Danielson, Strong, and Black). While Danielson has MOTYCs against Quack, Marufuji (2), Bones, Hero, Aries, Nigel, Black (haven't seen the second but heard it's a possible MOTYC), and Glazer raves his tag match from the next PPV is a MOTYC. So yeah, he blows Nigel and everyone else out of the water.


----------



## Caponex75

Haven't seen his match with Bones, Quack, or the 2 matches against Marafuji but if they ain't nothing more then **** stars then don't deserve that MOTY mention. His matches with Black(Not counting the second match due to the fact I have not seen it yet but about to) & Aries were not even MOTYC in my opinion and his match with Nigel is still stupid. He may of not of striked towards the head but he might of well had after dropping him on it so much that I got a concussion. So that leaves his match against Bones, Marafuji(Twice), Quack, and Hero. That's 5 matches to 4 matches and I doubt any of them were better than Nigel's encounter against Strong & Black or even close to his damn near classic against Aries at RA.



KeepItFresh said:


> If Nigel is the wrestler of the year he would have had a better match with Stevens in my estimation.


Not every wrestler is good against each other. Some guys just don't have chemistry.


----------



## -Mystery-

You seem to have your standards set way too high imo. I mean it's common acceptance around here that a 4 star match is a MOTYC. Granted, everyone has their own opinions but it appears to me that you set your standards too high which in turn clouds your judgment. 

Also, Danielson never dropped Nigel on his head in that match so please get off your soap box on that issue unless you're gonna give specific examples. By the way, back suplexs don't count as head drops, sorry.

Danielson - 8
Nigel - 4


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> Nigel has had 4 great matches this year (against Aries, Danielson, Strong, and Black). While Danielson has MOTYCs against Quack, Marufuji (2), Bones, Hero, Aries, Nigel, Black (haven't seen the second but heard it's a possible MOTYC), and Glazer raves his tag match from the next PPV is a MOTYC. So yeah, he blows Nigel and everyone else out of the water.


I think you can add Nigel/Hero from Breakout ****,and Nigel/Steen from Injustice **** to the list. I understand that Nigel has had less MOTYC, but I think as a whole with the context of his character and carrying a company that you can argue that Nigel is WOTY, though it is hard to argue with Dragon.


----------



## -Mystery-

peep4life said:


> I think you can add Nigel/Hero from Breakout ****,and Nigel/Steen from Injustice **** to the list. I understand that Nigel has had less MOTYC, but I think as a whole with the context of his character and carrying a company that you can argue that Nigel is WOTY, though it is hard to argue with Dragon.


I haven't seen the Steen match so I can't comment but I have the Hero match close to 4 (***3/4).

I like Nigel's heel character but I was so blown away by Danielson as a heel over in WXW. He was getting the kind of heat where I feared for his life.


----------



## Caponex75

Back Suplex is still dropping him on his head. Given that it isn't a full rotation like the Backdrop driver, but Danielson did use the Chaos Theory, still ended up with Nigel's head slapping against the mat. I don't remember much but I think he even hit him with a Tiger Suplex.

If we are counting just 4 star matches then Strong is God. Matches against Nigel, Stevens(3 matches including one I gave 5 stars), Necro & Stevens, Romero(PWG match), NRC 6-Man tags(2 matches), Aries(Undeniable), Supposedly MOTYC against Hero at BOS, and haven't seen it but I'm just going to go ahead an say Steenrico/Strong & Evans but not counting any of the other matches from DDT4(Although I'm betting the Los Luchas match was great). That's 11 matches in total I think. Shit....makes me wonder why we aren't talking about Strong more often. Still don't think any of those Danielson matches are any better than the Nigel matches he has had.

BTW I really think Steen is just a tag team guy.....not a singles one. His matches against Davey, Strong, and Nigel were 3 stars imo


----------



## vivalabrave

Nigel is WOTY to me so far because I have enjoyed the year he's had more than anyone else. Granted I'm a little behind on ROH , but for me it's not always about the STAR RATINGZ~! even though I think Nigel has been excellent workrate-wise. I mean I thought Cena was WOTY last year and I bet Danielson had more **** matches then him too (Even though Dragon missed half the year. Guy's insane).

EDIT: ^^ Also, Strong is awesome.


----------



## KingKicks

-Mystery- said:


> Nigel has had 4 great matches this year (against Aries, Danielson, Strong, and Black). While Danielson has MOTYCs against Quack, Marufuji (2), Bones, Hero, Aries, Nigel, Black (haven't seen the second but heard it's a possible MOTYC), and Glazer raves his tag match from the next PPV is a MOTYC. So yeah, he blows Nigel and everyone else out of the water.


There is also Danielson's tag match at European Navigation which is easily ****+ imo.

At the moment Aries is still my WOTY even though Danielson, Black, Jacobs and McGuiness are incredibly close.


----------



## watts63

I have been missing out. Downloading Hero/Danielson right now.


----------



## -Mystery-

Caponex75 said:


> Back Suplex is still dropping him on his head. Given that it isn't a full rotation like the Backdrop driver, but Danielson did use the Chaos Theory, still ended up with Nigel's head slapping against the mat. I don't remember much but I think he even hit him with a Tiger Suplex.
> 
> If we are counting just 4 star matches then Strong is God. Matches against Nigel, Stevens(3 matches including one I gave 5 stars), Necro & Stevens, Romero(PWG match), NRC 6-Man tags(2 matches), Aries(Undeniable), Supposedly MOTYC against Hero at BOS, and haven't seen it but I'm just going to go ahead an say Steenrico/Strong & Evans but not counting any of the other matches from DDT4(Although I'm betting the Los Luchas match was great). That's 11 matches in total I think. Shit....makes me wonder why we aren't talking about Strong more often. Still don't think any of those Danielson matches are any better than the Nigel matches he has had.
> 
> BTW I really think Steen is just a tag team guy.....not a singles one. His matches against Davey, Strong, and Nigel were 3 stars imo


Back suplex is dropping a guy on his back/shoulders. If Nigel landed on his head, that's his fault for bumping wrong.

I'll give you the Nigel and Stevens but I generally I don't rank tag matches too high on a guys resume because there are normally 3 or more guys in the match. What is most important to me when it comes to deciding WOTY is what a candidate does in singles competition which is most important imo.


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> I haven't seen the Steen match so I can't comment but I have the Hero match close to 4 (***3/4).
> 
> I like Nigel's heel character but I was so blown away by Danielson as a heel over in WXW. He was getting the kind of heat where I feared for his life.


I have the WXW shows coming in the mail so maybe this will change my opinion. 
As for Strong, I guess we all just take him for granted because he is just so consistently awesome, maybe the lack of character hurts him a little, but his workrate is incredible.


----------



## Caponex75

Anyway it goes, the match just was the wrong way to go.

Didn't you bring up the Danielson & Aries tag match with the AOTF tho? 

I mark for Strong and didn't even realise how awesome he is :lmao:


----------



## -Mystery-

Caponex75 said:


> Anyway it goes, the match just was the wrong way to go.
> 
> Didn't you bring up the Danielson & Aries tag match with the AOTF tho?
> 
> I mark for Strong and didn't even realise how awesome he is :lmao:


Yeah, I probably shouldn't have brought that match up but I did correct myself in a later post with my match count for Danielson.

I really like Strong as well. My only small knock on him is I wanna see how he does singles when this feud with Stevens is over (they've got one more match this month).


----------



## peep4life

-Mystery- said:


> Yeah, I probably shouldn't have brought that match up but I did correct myself in a later post with my match count for Danielson.
> 
> I really like Strong as well. My only small knock on him is I wanna see how he does singles when this feud with Stevens is over (they've got one more match this month).


It looks like Strong will move on to a heated feud with Davey, so hopefully they can tear the house down as well.


----------



## Caponex75

So that's 8 matches for Strong in singles so that means they are tied until this next one with Stevens.

I thought Strong/Davey matches were good except for the 2/3 Falls match.....didn't like that at all. Their match at Hartford two years ago got the NY FB Strong/Stevens treatment.


----------



## Bubz

RODERICK STRONG IS AWESOME! HE NEEDS TO BE CHAMPION


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

KingCrash has just reached legendary status by upping two more 16 Carat matches in the Indy Media section. Both of which feature God... I mean Marufuji. And one is against Danielson!

And I posted it here because they could be considered MOTYCs :side:


----------



## PulseGlazer

Okay- Danielson 4* + matches this year:

Danielson vs. Nigel - **** 1/2 6ya
Danielson vs. Ki **** - ASW VI Night 1
Danielson vs. CIMA **** - ASW VI Night 2
Danielson vs. Aries - TNP - ****
Danielson vs. Tyler Breakout - **** 1/4
Danielson vs. Tyler - Soutner Nav **** 1/4
Danielson vs. Marufuji - **** 1/4- **** 1/2
Danielson and Aries vs. Black and Jacobs - **** 1/2
Danielson vs. Quack WxW- **** 
Danielson vs. Maru WxW - ****
Danielson vs. Bad Bones - **** 1/2
Danielson vs. Hero **** 1/2
Danielson and Eddie Edwards vs. KENTA and Ibushi ****

Supposedly- Danielson vs. Claudio, too.

And, for fun, note that Danielson had, what, FOUR matches by this time last year. Dude is the best. Get over it.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah, I need to see those PWG matches.


----------



## Blasko

I have Danielson/Quack at **** 1/4. Quack being the super baby face that he is and Danielson just being the arrogant anti-christ. Quack's arm selling was as realistic as it gets, must see for fans of Quackenbush.

I think this and his match with Hero are some of my favorites from him.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Guess I'll need to search out those PWG matches then.

I'm guessing the tag against KENTA & Kota is from NOAH?

Just got done with Danielson/Aries from Take No Prisoners (starting to finally catch up on some '08 ROH), and I must say, I fucking loved it!

They worked the reccuring theme of parity really well and the finish worked into that with the winner (I'll try and keep it spoiler free) pulling out something new, while the loser was trying to go back to what had worked in the past, ultimately leading to his downfall. 

Danielson going after Aries' arm after Aries took the elbow pad off to inflict more damage on his own elbow shots was great as well. 

Great, great match! **** for me. Up next is McGuinness/Black, which I'll get to tomorrow.


----------



## Chiller88

A few matches I watched today and yesterday...

MCMG/Briscoes - ROH Return Engagement - ****1/2
I liked this match better than their first one, but I think I need to give that one another watch.

Nigel/Black - ROH Take No Prisoners - ****3/4
I think Black kicked out of one too many things, but it still really had me rooting for him even though I knew he lost the match. This is my MOTY, but I still have a lot of catching up to do as far as indy matches go.

Danielson/Hero - wXw 16 Carat Gold - ****1/2
Awesome match and I loved the finish.

What other '08 indy matches do I need to watch? Tbh, these are the only indy matches I've seen this year.


----------



## - Styles -

Saw most of Return Engagement today. (Skipped the first disc) and got a couple new MOTYC.

*MCMG vs Briscoes - ****1/2*
VERY different from last years match which I still prefer to this one but just barely. Such great tag work by both teams and even though the it's like 24 minutes long the time really does fly by. If you like tag team wrestling this is a must see. Really fun enjoyable match

*
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico - *****
Started off a little slow with a lots of Headlocks and mat wrestling but once it got into second gear it was great. Ibushi just pulls off such incredible moves and the crowd were completely marking for each one.


----------



## Sephiroth

PulseGlazer said:


> Okay- Danielson 4* + matches this year:
> 
> Danielson vs. Nigel - **** 1/2 6ya
> Danielson vs. Ki **** - ASW VI Night 1
> Danielson vs. CIMA **** - ASW VI Night 2
> Danielson vs. Aries - TNP - ****
> Danielson vs. Tyler Breakout - **** 1/4
> Danielson vs. Tyler - Soutner Nav **** 1/4
> Danielson vs. Marufuji - **** 1/4- **** 1/2
> Danielson and Aries vs. Black and Jacobs - **** 1/2
> Danielson vs. Quack WxW- ****
> Danielson vs. Maru WxW - ****
> Danielson vs. Bad Bones - **** 1/2
> Danielson vs. Hero **** 1/2
> Danielson and Eddie Edwards vs. KENTA and Ibushi ****
> 
> Supposedly- Danielson vs. Claudio, too.
> 
> And, for fun, note that Danielson had, what, FOUR matches by this time last year. Dude is the best. Get over it.


Add Danielson vs. Claudio from Vendetta II . And if you're counting tags or tag variants, might I recommend the Ultimate Endurance from Without Remorse?

We might as well throw in Tyler vs. Danielson at the next PPV and Team Work vs. MCMG too since they are going to be. (And the eventual ROH Title vs. ROH Career: Nigel(c) vs. Danielson aka his last match in ROH)

...But honestly, we ALL know who the WOTY is...CM Punk  (Sorry, still on a high from last Monday )

Edit: Anyone who has Return Engagement and skips to MCMG vs. Briscoes, make sure to watch the promo by MCMG that starts the show. It's greatness .

Edit 2: Glazer, have you seen Southern Navigation yet?

Edit 3: So many smilies! 

Edit 4: I think you meant Ishimori, not Ibushi


----------



## McQueen

Glazer told me he thought Danielson/Black II from Southern Nav was in the **** 1/2 range the other day on MSN.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> Glazer told me he thought Danielson/Black II from Southern Nav was in the **** 1/2 range the other day on MSN.


WHAT :shocked:. I need that match NOW!


----------



## McQueen

Yeah, I need to watch pretty much all of my '08 ROH before I get to that show, but I have it.


----------



## WillTheBloody

ROH: Return Engagement
_MCMG vs The Briscoes_ - ******

Buh. FAR inferior to their first encounter. This gets 4* on ingenuity alone, but has nothing in the way of story, work overs, selling, psychology, etc. I believe this is what a certain Mr. Lynn was talking about. Not directly, of course, but this style of wrestling is what irks him, and me for that matter. 

It reminds me of the shitfest that is the movie "Wanted", which is basically a film where the protagonist proclaims, "You are unimportant without a gun in your hand! Everything else is totally lame!" Translation: it's only worth living life if people think you're cool. While it may be "uncool" to be a desk jockey, construction worker, coal miner, fast food employee, janitor, etc. its FAR more important in the grand scheme of things than, say, a fucking bullet-curving assassin.

Same goes for this match. It tells us, "All you need is spots, danger, FIGHTING SPIRIT, high-risk, MOOOORE FIGHTING SPIRIT, some no-selling and KICKASS moves, and you got yourself a match!" Doesn't work that way. There was no rhythm or reason to what they were doing. In the end, without purpose, emotion, or logic, I could only grade it for ingenuity....which, since I gave it 4 fucking ninja stars based on creative kickassery alone, should give you a clue as to how you will enjoy this, if at all.

IMO.


----------



## PulseGlazer

WillTheBloody said:


> ROH: Return Engagement
> _MCMG vs The Briscoes_ - ******
> 
> Buh. FAR inferior to their first encounter. This gets 4* on ingenuity alone, but has nothing in the way of story, work overs, selling, psychology, etc. I believe this is what a certain Mr. Lynn was talking about. Not directly, of course, but this style of wrestling is what irks him, and me for that matter.
> 
> It reminds me of the shitfest that is the movie "Wanted", which is basically a film where the protagonist proclaims, "You are unimportant without a gun in your hand! Everything else is totally lame!" Translation: it's only worth living life if people think you're cool. While it may be "uncool" to be a desk jockey, construction worker, coal miner, fast food employee, janitor, etc. its FAR more important in the grand scheme of things than, say, a fucking bullet-curving assassin.
> 
> Same goes for this match. It tells us, "All you need is spots, danger, FIGHTING SPIRIT, high-risk, MOOOORE FIGHTING SPIRIT, some no-selling and KICKASS moves, and you got yourself a match!" Doesn't work that way. There was no rhythm or reason to what they were doing. In the end, without purpose, emotion, or logic, I could only grade it for ingenuity....which, since I gave it 4 fucking ninja stars based on creative kickassery alone, should give you a clue as to how you will enjoy this, if at all.
> 
> IMO.


Sounds more like you're reviewing the first match than the second here. At least go read my review (2 pages back) for an overview of the story. There was a workover of Sabin that maintained imporance all match. There was a ton of learning from previous spots, such as the Air Raid Crash and Moonsault, a distinct double team advantage for MCMG who broke out new stuff because the Briscoes were superior last year, and a workover on Sabin that maintained importance for the rest of the match.



Sephiroth said:


> Add Danielson vs. Claudio from Vendetta II . And if you're counting tags or tag variants, might I recommend the Ultimate Endurance from Without Remorse?
> 
> We might as well throw in Tyler vs. Danielson at the next PPV and Team Work vs. MCMG too since they are going to be. (And the eventual ROH Title vs. ROH Career: Nigel(c) vs. Danielson aka his last match in ROH)
> 
> ...But honestly, we ALL know who the WOTY is...CM Punk  (Sorry, still on a high from last Monday )
> 
> Edit: Anyone who has Return Engagement and skips to MCMG vs. Briscoes, make sure to watch the promo by MCMG that starts the show. It's greatness .
> 
> Edit 2: Glazer, have you seen Southern Navigation yet?
> 
> Edit 3: So many smilies!
> 
> Edit 4: I think you meant Ishimori, not Ibushi


I think Ult Endurance is *** 3/4. I had Danielson vs. Claudio in there. Team Work vs. AOTF belongs there and from what I hear Team Work vs. NRC might as well.

I saw some of Southern Nav- Danielson vs. Tyler 2 is **** 1/4 - **** 1/2, definately better than their first. It really plays up the similarities, I adore the subplot that comes through hugely in the finish, and really, they bring the competitive fire. 

I did mean Ishimori, not Ibushi.


----------



## WillTheBloody

PulseGlazer said:


> Sounds more like you're reviewing the first match than the second here. At least go read my review (2 pages back) for an overview of the story. There was a workover of Sabin that maintained imporance all match. There was a ton of learning from previous spots, such as the Air Raid Crash and Moonsault, a distinct double team advantage for MCMG who broke out new stuff because the Briscoes were superior last year, and a workover on Sabin that maintained importance for the rest of the match.


First off, there is no right answer here, no matter how badly you want to believe you have it. People do in fact percieve things differently. You apply your own personal opinion to create YOUR story, not THE story. Three examples:

- They never said "Sabin dodged the SSP b/c he remembered last match" they said "Mark hit it in match 1, missed in match 2". You decided Sabin was brilliant and built your logic accordingly.

- Shelley "suckering" Mark in. Again, this was never made clear and is your opinion.

- MCMG got another double submission on the Briscoes in nearly the same manner as last time. How is this "learning"? You didn't mention it in your review because you didn't take that away from the match, it wasn't important to the story YOU built.

Look, I know I'm ragging on you, and in truth, your stuff is always a good read. But I don't read it to be told the match story, I read it to see what you thought the story was. I read what you write simply to get a different take, your take. But don't sell it to me like it's fact. That's what BonesBarkley does, and no ones takes that guy seriously. No one intelligent anyway.

Again, I'm sorry if you feel this was unwarranted, but it was something that bothered me. In truth, this whole argument is in someway Mark Millar's fault.


----------



## PulseGlazer

WillTheBloody said:


> First off, there is no right answer here, no matter how badly you want to believe you have it. People do in fact percieve things differently. You apply your own personal opinion to create YOUR story, not THE story. Three examples:
> 
> - They never said "Sabin dodged the SSP b/c he remembered last match" they said "Mark hit it in match 1, missed in match 2". You decided Sabin was brilliant and built your logic accordingly.
> 
> - Shelley "suckering" Mark in. Again, this was never made clear and is your opinion.
> 
> - MCMG got another double submission on the Briscoes in nearly the same manner as last time. How is this "learning"? You didn't mention it in your review because you didn't take that away from the match, it wasn't important to the story YOU built.
> 
> Look, I know I'm ragging on you, and in truth, your stuff is always a good read. But I don't read it to be told the match story, I read it to see what you thought the story was. I read what you write simply to get a different take, your take. But don't sell it to me like it's fact. That's what BonesBarkley does, and no ones takes that guy seriously. No one intelligent anyway.
> 
> Again, I'm sorry if you feel this was unwarranted, but it was something that bothered me. In truth, this whole argument is in someway Mark Millar's fault.



Fuck Mark Millar. The double submission was a different one. MCMG built everything around different double teams. Most teams, Guns included have a set of double teams they usually do. They departed from that totally here and counterred... all but the Springboard Doomsday of the Briscoes standard moves. The Briscoes busted out a new combo or two eventually also, and those were the only things that worked. Are you suggesting this is mere coincidence? I don't see how all of that (I mean, I could go move by move if you really, really want, but I tend not to in my reviews) can just be unintentional happennstance. These guys knew the complaints first time and addressed them here.

They don't say Shelley suckerred in Mark, but he suckers in Mark with trick kicks as he hits the ropes and sweeps throughout the match. This is all just luck with no intent? I really don't see that. 

Lastly, agreed, Fuck Millar.


----------



## Sephiroth

Mark Millar > You both


----------



## Derek

Sephiroth said:


> Mark Millar > You both


Agreed. Ultimates FTW.


----------



## WillTheBloody

Sephiroth said:


> Mark Millar > You both


He's shit, plain and simple. But more power to you for finding any value whatsoever in moronic drivel. Enjoy an Ace Steel match lately, too?


----------



## Sephiroth

So...The Authority, his work on Swamp Thing and Judge Dredd, Superman: Red Son, Kick-Ass, actually making Wolverine's solo comic worth checking out, Ultimates, Wanted, and his current run on F4 are crap?

I can understand if you think he's overrated, but you're hatred for him dumbfounds me. Did Civil War rape you as a child?

Let's start being more positive.

Hopefully we can all agree Grant Morrison IS God


----------



## Derek

I can agree with that.


----------



## Spartanlax

I don't know who Mark Millar or Grant Morrison is.

Coincidentally, I talk to girls. 

I keed, I keed!



















I don't talk to girls.


----------



## WillTheBloody

I was out of line bringing up Ace Steel in ANY discussion. Apologies all around.



Sephiroth said:


> Hopefully we can all agree Grant Morrison IS God


:agree:


----------



## Blasko

You've talked to more girls then Aaron if you don't count family members, Lax.


----------



## Sephiroth

I honestly have a better chancing of ending up with Aaron in the end than his current girlfriend does


----------



## Blasko

That isn't his girlfriend, that's his sister!


----------



## Spartanlax

That isn't his sister, that's my sister!


----------



## Blasko

Isn't Aaron in his 20s and your sister is TWELVE?

The plot thickens!


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Isn't Aaron in his 20s and your sister is TWELVE?
> 
> The plot thickens!


Aaron can pretend you said 18, lol


----------



## PulseGlazer

Guys, We all know I'm total Pedophile for your younger family members, we can even Nickname me RohB Maff, but can we keep this shit out of the MOTYC thread? It's clutterred enough.


----------



## Blasko

Sorry Aaron. I just love slandering your name. 

Quack/Marufuji- *** 3/4- ****

Really interesting styles clash. Marufuji works the Jr style whichs always a good thing. There's a few tiny mess ups that affect the rating and Marufuji kicking out of the QD III left a tad sour taste in my mouth. Over all, fun back and forth technical match.


----------



## - Styles -

*WxW 16 Carat Gold*

*Hero vs Danielson - ****1/4*
This really felt epic. The crowd was so behind Hero is wasn't even funny. Just completely shit on Dragon and he played up to it perfectly. Loved the finish with the viscous forearm exchanges. Awesome match from beginning to end.

*Danielson vs Quackenbush - ***1/4*
Didn't like this as much. They practically spent the whole match on the ground doing submissions and the like. There was some great selling by Quack but ultimately the match bored me for the most part. I can understand why others would like this more but it's just not my type of style.

On a side note, I didn't know a thing about the tourney beforehand so the ring/setting and the lighting was a bit off putting at first but I got used to it after a while. The announcer was kind of annoying too. He got this really high pitched pre-pubescent voice whenever he got excited. Very Joey Styles like with his CATFIGHT!!!!!


----------



## Sephiroth

*Southern Navigation*
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ***** 1/4*

Go check this match out in the Indy Media section. I really can't wait for Danielson vs. Tyler III at the next PPV taping now.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Return Engagement*

MCMG vs. Briscoes *****1/2*
I need to give the first a rewatch before deciding which i enjoyed more.

El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi ******

Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen ******


----------



## watts63

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 2*
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****-****1/4

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 3*
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero ****3/4-*****

El Generico should be on commentary more lol.

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 1*
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush ****


----------



## Saint Dick

Briscoes/MCMG II - ****1/2

I liked the first one better but this was still epic.



watts63 said:


> *wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 2*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****-****1/4
> 
> *wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 3*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero ****3/4-*******
> 
> El Generico should be on commentary more lol.
> 
> *wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 1*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush ****


Seriously? Link plz.


----------



## - Styles -

^ KingCrash Uploaded them in the MM section.


----------



## Sephiroth

Ownage™ said:


> Seriously? Link plz.


Marufuji/Danielson & Marufuji/Quackenbush - wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold

Danielson/Quackenbush & Danielson/Hero - wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold

Generico/Ishimori & Danielson/Bad Bones - wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold

Danielson vs. Bad Bones is the finals and from what some people said, ****+ also.


----------



## -Mystery-

Woo hoo. Glad to see Danielson getting the recognition he deserves for his performance in the 16 Carat Gold tournament.


----------



## Saint Dick

What did you guys rate Danielson/Hero?


----------



## -Mystery-

Ownage™ said:


> What did you guys rate Danielson/Hero?


I've got it sitting at ****1/2 - ****3/4. Another poster in this section gave it the full 5.


----------



## Saint Dick

-Mystery- said:


> I've got it sitting at ****1/2 - ****3/4. Another poster in this section gave it the full 5.


watts gave it ****3/4-***** so I'm definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## Blasko

-Mystery- said:


> Another poster in this section gave it the full 5.


 Sup guy.


----------



## Chiller88

Ownage™ said:


> What did you guys rate Danielson/Hero?


****1/2, although I might bump it up to ****3/4 after another watch.


----------



## Daredevil Jeff

Ownage™ said:


> What did you guys rate Danielson/Hero?


**** 3/4, tbh. Just simply awesome


----------



## Caponex75

*Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black II*



Spoiler



I loved Tyler absolutey just bum rushing Danielson in the beginning because it makes his promo earlier actually mean something about him being more hungry. Dominates for a good while because he completey took Danielson off guard but then makes a bad mistake in disrespecting him. Also a little side note but Tyler becoming more cocky as he gets control is also a plus. As soon as he disrespects Danielson, Danielson kicks his face in and goes for his own hold that Tyler tried to put on him! That's great and I love how he doesn't try to put in the hold immediatly but fucks him for just trying it on him. Lenny makes a solid point in commentary about Tyler knowing how to get out of these holds a little bit faster due to their previous match.

You see Danielson start to calm down and actually become a little more cocky himself kinda like Tyler earlier but still a little pissed. Tells Tyler to c'mon but just knocks his ass out with European Uppercuts. I apperciate the fact that the dive is a showing of desperation and it means allot more now then it usually would which is good. Danielson ducks the flying lariat, shows a little bit of what Lenny said that them catching on to things from their last match, but he gets caught with a spinning wheel kick for his troubles. Tyler repeats himself and Danielson, acknowledging that he saw this earlier, blocks it but gets a kick in the head as well as Tyler finally getting him in position to hitting him with the Springboard lariat. 


Tyler bitch slaps him accouple times and you think he would learn that pissing Danielson off isn't exactly smart as he gets pushed to the outside after a springboard attempt. Suicide dives Tyler and a fan but it means something so :nod:. Danielson kicks the shit out of him and busts a Low-ki and kicks him in the head. That's new. Danielson attempts the cow killer but Tyler gets out of the hold quicky which pertains(Right Word?) to what Lenny said earlier. Accouple nearfalls and I don't remember if the Rana played apart in their last match but Danielson sure did reverse it. Tyler and Danielson have a boo/yeah and exchange but Danielson, being the veteran, hits him with a roaring forearm only for Black to HIT THE PELLE! PELLE! OMFG! WHAT A PELLE!.... :eyes: Well Powerbomb in the corner and kick to the face. Good thing about Tyler selling what just happened and not up to the top like it was the beginning of the match.

Danielson cuts him off and tries for that Back suplex but to no avail on all 3 attempts! Tyler misses the Phenoix Splash but lands on his feet and runs recklessly into a Cow Killer A-gain! Great job acknowledging the fact that Tyler absolutey just is a little fatigue right now and doesn't reverse the move as fast. ELBOWS~ but Tyler gets out! Tyler is trying to catch some offense but Danielson catches him with a forearm. Tyler goes for the PELLE but Dragon says "Full me once, shame on me but Full me twice AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN bitch!" and locks in a Ankle Lock/Heel Hook combo! Tyler starts kicking him in the head with his one free leg but Danielson says "Fuck it" and locks in the Heel Hook on that leg! Tyler taps and the finish makes great sense with Danielson busting out with something new against a Tyler that was ready against everything.


Great match and I give it ****-****1/2


----------



## sivell

i personally loved joe vs angle (lockdown) and Kota Ibushi vs El Generico


----------



## Sephiroth

Caponex75 said:


> *Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black II
> 
> *Great match and I give it ****-****1/2


Didn't it look like Tyler ducked the dive and throws Danielson into the crowd? I hope they do that in their 3rd time facing each other. It would be a cool spot and then Tyler could show up Danielson by doing a dive of his own while he's collecting himself in the crowd.


----------



## Daredevil Jeff

Sephiroth said:


> *Didn't it look like Tyler ducked the dive and throws Danielson into the crowd?* I hope they do that in their 3rd time facing each other. It would be a cool spot and then Tyler could show up Danielson by doing a dive of his own while he's collecting himself in the crowd.


:agree: It looked like that but then Danielson stood up immediately and Tyler was on the floor. I just watched that match and I have to say that it is awesome. I loved every minute of the match. 

***** 1/2*


----------



## Caponex75

It looked like Danielson suicide dived the fan actually lol At least it did to me.


----------



## Daredevil Jeff

To me it looked like Danielson jumped over Tyler, Tyler just touched him a little bit.

Anyone seen Kevin Steen vs El Generico from IWS?


----------



## casper-21

ROH Tag Wars:

Austin Aries & Kota Ibushi vs Briscoes ****
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black *** 3/4

ROH Return Engagement:

Briscoes vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin **** 1/4
El Generico vs Kota Ibushi ****


Dragon Gate 31.05.08 - Twin Gate Title Match:

Susumu Yokosuka & Ryo Saito vs Dragon Kid & Pac *** 3/4


----------



## watts63

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 3*
Bad Bones vs. Bryan Danielson ****-****1/4

After his performance in wXw, Bryan Danielson is my WOTY right now.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

watts63 said:


> *wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 3*
> Bad Bones vs. Bryan Danielson ****-****1/4
> 
> After his performance in wXw, Bryan Danielson is my WOTY right now.


For some reason, even though his match with Hero is widely pimped as the better match, I want to see Danielson/Bones more than any match from the 16 Carat Tourney. And I don't think I've ever seen a Bad Bones match. Actually, maybe that'a why I'm intrigued...


----------



## DRodri90

*ROH A New Level*
Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji **** - ****1/4
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs No Remorse Corps ****


----------



## -Mystery-

Andy3000 said:


> For some reason, even though his match with Hero is widely pimped as the better match, I want to see Danielson/Bones more than any match from the 16 Carat Tourney. And I don't think I've ever seen a Bad Bones match. Actually, maybe that'a why I'm intrigued...


If you liked Danielson/Delirious from Ring of Homicide, you'll love Danielson/Bones. It's the perfect underdog story with a great crowd. Also, Danielson delivers the most awesome curb stomp to Bones.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Well, I haven't seen Ring of Homicide, but I'm always a fan of the underdog story dymanic. Once I download all of the matches that Crash upped I'm gonna try and sit and watch them all in one sitting. Just 'coz that's how I roll.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Southern Navigation*

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black *****1/4*
*Really looking forward to their next match*

Team NOAH vs. No Remorse Corps *****1/2*
*Incredibly entertaining. Alot better then the DGC II main event.*


----------



## watts63

*ROH Return Engagement*
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico ****


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GHT Jr. Titles Match - Shingo & BxB Hulk v KENTA & Taiji Ishimori (Dragon Gate, 3/20) ****1/4

Great match, but I've always semmed to be missing something with this match. I've seen it given as high as ****3/4, but I really don't see it at that level. Still though, most people on here at least have it at ****1/4 too so I don't think I'm underrating it (on here anyway). 

Like the story with the NOAH guys killing Hulk and keeping Shingo out of there 'til they've had their way, then using the advantage of Hulk being out of it to go after the powerhouse Shingo. Ishimori is great at bringing the MOVES~ while Hulk is awesome at taking a manly beating. KENTA and Shingo are just awesome in general. I'd liked to have seen more Shingo/KENTA exchanges, but it looks like they're building to a singles match down the line anyway, so I understand them not wanting to give too much away yet.

So, really good match... great even, but I'd put at least 10 ahead of it so far this year.


----------



## casper-21

Daredevil Jeff said:


> Anyone seen Kevin Steen vs El Generico from IWS?


IWS Violent Valentine - World Title Match:

Kevin Steen vs El Generico *** 1/2



ROH Southern Navigation:

Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black ****

Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero vs Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Go Shiozaki ****


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH A New Level*

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards and Rocky Romero ****

Naomichi Marufuji vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## watts63

*ROH Southern Navigation*
Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Go Shiozaki vs. Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero ****


----------



## -GP-

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****1/4*
I don't care how long you've been watching wrestling, put these 2 f*ckers in the ring and they'll still show you some new modifier on a move.
That back body drop into a sunset flip was all kinds of awesome.

*Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2*
This was Crowd Manipulation 101 right here. They both have the whole building eating out of their hands before the bell even rings, and from there on it only gets better.
Ending is brilliant, and Generico should definitely get more colour commentary gigs


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

*Nigel McGuinnes v Tyler Black, ROH Take no Prisoners - ****3/4*

Ho. Lee. Shit! This was 3534 different kinds of awesome, and it's my new MOTY so far. I fucking loved the whole deal with Nigel being the absolute M. Bison (Street Figher, in case someone's been living under a rock forever) dickhead and Tyler being the young challenger that just WILL NOT stay down and, seemingly, that's impossible not to cheer for. Nigel's utter domination was awesome; Black's determination was awesome; the crowd was awesome; everything was fucking awesome! I found myself marking and hoping that Tyler might sneak it this time... OK this time... THIS time, even though I've known the result since it happened. If that's not good 'rasslin then fuck if I know what is. 

If I was going to complain about one thing, it'd be that Tyler probably kicked out of juuuust about too much (I think it ending at the Jawbreaker Lariat might've been less overkill-tastic), but the rest of the match was too good for me to bother. Unbelievable stuff!


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/19/08*
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## dele

Jun Kasai's Return Match:
Lighttubes and Lighttube cage "Kichi-Gai" deathmatch
Jun Kasai and Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki and Yuko Miyamoto

****1/4. Absolute fucking insanity. If it's bloody insanity (including a Korakuen Hall balcony dive) you want, prepare to be satisfied.

You pretty much know that the returning Kasai will go over, and even then all four guys come out of this match looking (not literally) like a million dollars. If Miyamoto does not get a title shot within the next 6 months, it will be a huge miscarriage of justice.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jzsZAO8ERjQ Part One
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8sXCB6GI-A&feature=related Part Two


----------



## Spartanlax

As always, Andy3000 posts my opinion before I get the chance to. Feel the same way exactly about Black/Nigel.

New legit MOTYC- Danielson vs. Marafuji from A New Level. ****1/2 from me, just an amazing junior heavyweight bout.


----------



## KingKicks

Andy3000 said:


> *Nigel McGuinnes v Tyler Black, ROH Take no Prisoners - ****3/4*
> 
> Ho. Lee. Shit! This was 3534 different kinds of awesome, and it's my new MOTY so far. I fucking loved the whole deal with Nigel being the absolute M. Bison (Street Figher, in case someone's been living under a rock forever) dickhead and Tyler being the young challenger that just WILL NOT stay down and, seemingly, that's impossible not to cheer for. Nigel's utter domination was awesome; Black's determination was awesome; the crowd was awesome; everything was fucking awesome! I found myself marking and hoping that Tyler might sneak it this time... OK this time... THIS time, even though I've known the result since it happened. If that's not good 'rasslin then fuck if I know what is.
> 
> If I was going to complain about one thing, it'd be that Tyler probably kicked out of juuuust about too much (I think it ending at the Jawbreaker Lariat might've been less overkill-tastic), but the rest of the match was too good for me to bother. Unbelievable stuff!


Damn Andy, those were my exact thoughts on the match.



Spartanlax said:


> As always, Andy3000 posts my opinion before I get the chance to. Feel the same way exactly about Black/Nigel.
> 
> New legit MOTYC- Danielson vs. Marafuji from A New Level. ****1/2 from me, just an amazing junior heavyweight bout.


I find it amazing that some people live said it was nothing special. ****1/4-****1/2 for me.


----------



## Spartanlax

Benjo™ said:


> I find it amazing that some people live said it was nothing special. ****1/4-****1/2 for me.


Fuckin' ROH fans, especially NYC fans, are spoiled beyond all belief. Most called the show extremely disappointing...they can get the flying fuck out of here.

On a random note/shill, Glazer from his live report called it something special. So owned random ROH fans, Glazer > you!


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah, I need to see Danielson/Maru. Marufuji's probably in my top 3 favourite wrestlers right now, and that American Dragon dude's pretty OK I guess, so this is must watch for me.

Once I download all of the wXw tourney matches from the media section I'll get on their tourney match, which I'm fucking stoked about as well to say the least.


----------



## dele

So could someone give me a link for Danielson/Black plzkthxbi.


----------



## watts63

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 5/23/08*
Akitoshi Saito & Bison Smith vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/2

Bison f'n rules!

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/1/08*
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****


----------



## - Styles -

*WXW's 16 Carat Gold*

*Danielson vs. Marufuji - ****-****1/4*

Liked this much better than Dragon/Quack. They did the standard Top this stuff in the beginning and while they still had a bunch of back and forth submissions I thought the flow of the match was much better. They also built up the ending quite nicely. 

On a side note: Why does the German crowd hate Danielson so damn much. It's amazing the heat he was generating in that tourney.


----------



## watts63

I asked myself that same question too when they start chanting "You Can't Wrestle". Now that's f'n heat man.


----------



## McQueen

Why is there no love for Williams/Marufuji!!!!!

And I don't know why they hate Danielson so much but my guess is jealousy.


----------



## watts63

McQueen said:


> Why is there no love for Williams/Marufuji!!!!!


Because that match hasn't been uploaded.

*ROH A New Level*
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****1/4

*WWE Backlash '08*
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels ****

*WWE Judgment Day*
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

Williams Marufuji bored even me and I'm known for loving that kind of match.


----------



## watts63

*WWE One Night Stand '08*
Edge vs. Undertaker ****1/4


----------



## volcanic

*Pro Wrestling NOAH - 2/3 Falls Match: Yoshinobu Kanemaru, Davey Richards, Atsushi Aoki & Genba Hirayanagi vs. KENTA, Taiji Ishimori, Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin - *** 3/4*

overall, a really cool match. the guys that I was least familiar with were the ones that really shined, IMO. loved the Suzuki/Marvin angles throughout and <spoilers>: 

<Suzuki's turn at the end.>


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH - A New level*

*Danielson vs. Marufuji - ****1/4*

The Final Countdown thing in the beginning was great, literally sends chills down you spine. This was a very similar match to the WxW one, even with some of the same spots and sequences the difference being I liked the finish better here. Great competitive match throughout.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

*Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day:* ****1/2.

I have a few quick comments. The part of Jericho using the trickery card with Michaels when he was planning hit Sweet Chin Music, and him taking advantage of that by using Codebreaker instead on HBK first was just about one of my favorite moments in a match for the year. I just absolutely love how they play it up.

My real deal with the match though, seems to be how fast it goes by. Once it ends, I seem to wish there was more. 

I thought it still was a terrific match. Looking over all I just seen in WWE & TNA, this is my favorite match at this current time and now my choice as a MOTYC.


----------



## watts63

AIW said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day:* ****1/2.
> 
> I have a few quick comments. The part of Jericho using the trickery card with Michaels when he was planning hit Sweet Chin Music, and him taking advantage of that by using Codebreaker instead on HBK first was just about one of my favorite moments in a match for the year. I just absolutely love how they play it up.


That was my favorite part of the match too.


----------



## Taroostyles

I really liked Jericho/HBK as well, but I'm not quite that high on it. ****, maybe ****1/4 on a rewatch IMO.


----------



## - Styles -

**** - ****1/4 for me Great match but nothing has surpassed Flair/Hbk from WM 24 in the WWE so far this year.


----------



## Chiller88

AIW said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day:* ****1/2.
> 
> I have a few quick comments. The part of Jericho using the trickery card with Michaels when he was planning hit Sweet Chin Music, and him taking advantage of that by using Codebreaker instead on HBK first was just about one of my favorite moments in a match for the year. I just absolutely love how they play it up.
> 
> My real deal with the match though, seems to be how fast it goes by. Once it ends, I seem to wish there was more.
> 
> I thought it still was a terrific match. Looking over all I just seen in WWE & TNA, this is my favorite match at this current time and now my choice as a MOTYC.


Jericho countering the SCM with a Codebraker after playing a little possum was one of my favorite moments in a match this year as well. You're also right about how fast the match goes and how it leaves you wanting more. I have it at ****1/4.


----------



## watts63

*WWE Backlash '08*
Undertaker vs. Edge ****-****1/4

*WWE Judgment Day '08*
Edge vs. Undertaker ****


----------



## -Mystery-

Get outside watts. :side:


----------



## KingCrash

*PWG All-Star Weekend Night 1*
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki - ****-****1/4

*PWG All-Star Weekend Night 2*
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA - ***3/4


----------



## - Styles -

*ROH Southern Navigation*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ****1/4*
Really good match. Danielson just kills him with Submission after submission for awhile including an awesome surfboard into a dragon sleeper but Black makes a bit of a comeback busting out some aerial moves to combat it. 

*Team NOAH vs. No Remorse Corps - ****1/2*
This is about as entertaining match as I've seen in a long time. I was rolling at some of the stuff like Morishima doing the azucar dance, or all three Noah guys laying on top of Davey in the corner while Maru prayed on top lol. Never a dull moment in this one. Lots of fun and some great hard hitting action. Loved this match.


----------



## seabs

AIW said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day:* ****1/2.
> 
> I have a few quick comments. The part of Jericho using the trickery card with Michaels when he was planning hit Sweet Chin Music, and him taking advantage of that by using Codebreaker instead on HBK first was just about one of my favorite moments in a match for the year. I just absolutely love how they play it up.
> 
> My real deal with the match though, seems to be how fast it goes by. Once it ends, I seem to wish there was more.
> 
> I thought it still was a terrific match. Looking over all I just seen in WWE & TNA, this is my favorite match at this current time and now my choice as a MOTYC.


*I gave it ****-1/4*


watts63 said:


> *WWE Backlash '08*
> Undertaker vs. Edge ****-****1/4
> 
> *WWE Judgment Day '08*
> Edge vs. Undertaker ****


*Edge/Taker:
WM ****1/4
Backlash ***3/4
Judgment Day ***1/2
ONS ****1/4

The two there are much higher than mine. Wouldnt go that high personally.*


----------



## Taroostyles

Edge/Taker series

WM 24-****1/4
Backlash-***3/4
Judgment Day-***1/2-***3/4
ONS-***3/4-****


----------



## Bubz

y2j vs hbk at judgement day was awesome, words canot describe how much i loved that match, jericho is just great and hes been having some good matches this year


----------



## -GP-

*Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/14/08*
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/2

Great, great match. Stiffness all around with everyone hating everyone and everyone killing everyone at every possible chance.
It kinda settles down at times for some working on KENTA or Sasaki's arm and whatnot, but mostly they just go non-stop from bell to bell.
Aftermath is brilliant btw.


----------



## Bubz

i might be abit late but im just watching the last two matches of take no prisoners now...dragon vs aries was awesome, great selling by aries on the arm. now tyler vs nigel


----------



## volcanic

*4/26/2008: IWGP Heavyweight Championship match - Keiji Mutoh vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - *** 3/4*
a pretty good match overall, but I was expecting more. Mutoh makes everything look effortless. Naka busts out his cool looking Landslide and Shining Triangle, and Mutoh hits a few leg lariats and a DEADLY neck lariat over the top rope. Mutoh finishes Naka with two Shining Wizards, one to the front of the head and one to the back. Mutoh is the new IWGP champ, for first time in 8 years! he is awarded with some belts, some plaques, a trophy and what appears to be a lifetime supply of toilet paper.


----------



## Taroostyles

TNA Victory Road

12 Man Elim Tag-****1/4-****1/2(Absolutely phenomenal, Yashino owned in this match)

Angle/3D vs Styles/Rhino/Cage-Full Metal Mayhem-****1/4 (Tons of great and original spots, Bubba Ray with a picture perfect super kick owned house)


----------



## Saint Dick

I have the 12 man tag and Full Metal Mayhem at ****1/4 on first viewing. I'll see if they hold up after a re-watch.


----------



## Taroostyles

Too bad the main event had the weirdest ending to match I've ever seen, it was on it's way up there as well.


----------



## - Styles -

*Victory Road*

*12 man tag - ****1/2*
This match just absolutely floored me. Yes it's a spotfest and has little to no psychology but I'm wasn't expecting it to. It delivered exactly what I'd hoped for. An that was an incredibly fun, entertaining, fast paced spotfilled match from beginning to end. Liked it about as much as the Dragon Gate 6-man from Supercard of Honor III.

*Full metal Mayhem - ****1/4*
Bloody and brutal brawl. It seemed like everyone was put through a table. Aj was on fire throughout and Cage did an amazing spot of the top of the UX structure. Great ending as well. 

I know some will rate these MUCH lower and that's fine but for me I couldn't have asked for more from both of these matches.


----------



## Taroostyles

I thought they did a good job in FMM of using some really original spots and it felt different to me than most other TLC/FMM type matches. 

The opener, well the opener was just phenomenal plain and simple.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I have to see both of these. There's actually a shit load of TNA stuff I'd like to watch from this year, but it's hard for me to get motivated enough to do so.


----------



## Spartanlax

Those two matches sounded great from the Gerweck and recap, and now from your thoughts/ratings I gotta d/l them ASAP. Booker/Joe has me interested as well...aside from the BS-ending, it sounds like Joe ended up SNAPPING, and it sounds like a moment that has to be seen.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

What's the ending to the main event? The stupid/weird/BS one?


----------



## Taroostyles

Booker/Joe was really good until the ending, it just a really weird sequence of events and it almost made Joe, Sting, and Booker all out to be heels. It was interesting tho. 

UX was pretty good, but not as great as I expected. Probably like ***1/4, maybe ***1/2 but it had one of the best bumps in TNA history IMO.

Andy, ok here it is. Ref went down and Joe was pummeling Booker, I mean they were making Joe look very strong. Then Sharmell was pleading with Joe to stop and she slapped him, then Joe killed the bodyguard she had with her.(Probably a PWA guy)

Then Joe went full madman killing refs, Booker, security, and pretty much anybody else. Then Sting came out to try and plead with Joe, which it seemed had worked until Joe went back for more on Booker. Then Sting came back to yell at Joe and Joe flipped him off. Sting smashed Joe with the bat and the Book covered him and Sharmell made the 3 count. 

Afterwards they played up that pinfall not counting and that Book wasn't the champ, It was just very weird, that's about the best way to describe it.


----------



## - Styles -

Very confusing and strange finish...

http://www.gerweck.net/news/1216002507.shtml


----------



## Spartanlax

Andy3000 said:


> What's the ending to the main event? The stupid/weird/BS one?


There's like three ref bumps, three run-ins, a heel/face turn(?) (kinda-sorta), and Sharmell ends up counting the pin so...we're not sure if it counts or not yet. I THINK it was ruled a no-contest...who knows.


----------



## Taroostyles

Well there really only one real ref bump, the other refs just got killed by Joe for trying to stop him.


----------



## PulseGlazer

X-Elimination - *** 3/4 - Good spotfest, without any real story and they kept the spots simple/trademark. The uber-finisher kick outs at the end were a bit much, as well.

Ult X- ***- could it have had less flow? the one must see spot raises it from 2 and a half.

Full metal mayhem- *** 3/4- Good babyface shine, then 3-d are put over as really good with Tables, then AJ is a beast. Trigg on the finish annoyed otherwise I'd go ****. Cage is a fucking STAR.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I agree about UX, those 4 really didn't mesh very well. They probably could've used some of the guys from the tag in that match and it wouldn't have really hurt the tag match and would've made the UX match alot better.

I thought the other 2 matches were atleast ****1/4 on 1st watch, but to each his own.


----------



## McQueen

Milano Collection AT did not win the 12 man tag - negative 4 stars on that alone.


----------



## Sephiroth

Negative Stars for Yoshino not dressing up in his Italian Connection gear when tagging with Milano.


----------



## McQueen

I'd rep you for that Sephy but I don't have anymore pictures of Tatanka.


----------



## KingKicks

****1/4 for Full Metal Mayhem, will definitely have to rewatch it.

I didn't enjoy the World X cup elimination match that much. ***1/2, maybe less.

Ultimate X was decent until Kaz came along... ***

I enjoyed Joe/Booker up til the messed up ending, but if it results in 2005 Joe returning then i'm all up for that.


----------



## McQueen

Benjo™ said:


> I didn't enjoy the World X cup elimination match that much. ***1/2, maybe less.


I'd less based solely on Milano didn't win.


----------



## stinger-splash

McQueen said:


> I'd less based solely on Milano didn't win.


It's TNA.. It would be stupid to let other wrestlers go over your own talent. MMG deserved the win, plain and simple.


----------



## McQueen

Not over Milano. No one deserves to go over Milano, not even Joe.


----------



## stinger-splash

McQueen said:


> Not over Milano. No one deserves to go over Milano, not even Joe.


Then he better never goes to WWE, they would let him job to Hornswoggle.


----------



## McQueen

He's in the best promotion in the world right now, New Japan so i'm not worried about it.


----------



## Caponex75

*PWG - Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA II*
Out of every sequel Danielson has been in, this match has to be the best. I don't get why this match isn't talked about when it's the best thing he has done this year. I could understand the dislike of the finish but it was a good idea to me. This match had *SELLING~* Bryan Danielson as well as *SELLING~* CIMA and in my opinion, way better than the World title match before. I'd be uploading thisa lata.****1/4


----------



## PulseGlazer

Caponex75 said:


> *PWG - Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA II*
> Out of every sequel Danielson has been in, this match has to be the best. I don't get why this match isn't talked about when it's the best thing he has done this year. I could understand the dislike of the finish but it was a good idea to me. This match had *SELLING~* Bryan Danielson as well as *SELLING~* CIMA and in my opinion, way better than the World title match before. I'd be uploading thisa lata.****1/4


Vendetta was a sequel. Unified was a third match. Epic Encounter was a sequel.

And as for this year, did you see Danielson vs. Nigel from 6ya or the Hero war from WxW?


----------



## Caponex75

I was talking about this year >_>

Yes I have seen both of those matches and Nigel/Dragon was just bad in my opinion while Hero/Danielson was great but not that awesome.


----------



## peep4life

X Elimination Match, ****
Makes you even more frustrated with TNA because of the over the top booking that was the rest of the night.


----------



## Taroostyles

I didn't really see any other over the top booking besides the main event.


----------



## thepunisherkills

Taroostyles said:


> I didn't really see any other over the top booking besides the main event.


Neither Did I


----------



## thepunisherkills

McQueen said:


> I'd less based solely on Milano didn't win.


I wanted yoshino to get the win. :agree:


----------



## Sephiroth

*sigh*

When Milano is in the same ring as him, his name isnt Yoshino...it's YOSSINO!

I miss ItaCon


----------



## Blasko

I'm unable to give VIn/Fire a proper rating because the use of a Burning Hammer that was NO SOLD.


----------



## Derek

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> I'm unable to give VIn/Fire a proper rating because the use of a Burning Hammer that was NO SOLD.


Bullshit. Kobashi should kill them for that.


----------



## T-C

CJ Otis should kill them.


----------



## sirdilznik

*TNA Victory Road*

*X-Cup 12-Man Elimination - ****1/2* - This match was right up my alley. A super fast paced super sprint with tons of great spots and awesome flow. There were a couple semi-botches but even those were somewhat saved and considering the sheer amount of craziness and mayhem and the pace of the match it's pretty amazing how smooth it all came off. Plenty of time given, everybody given a chance to shine, Masato Yoshino being absolutely sensational. All that leads this to being my second favorite TNA match of the year.

*Full Metal Mayhem (Team 3D & Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage, Rhyno, & AJ Styles) - ****1/4 - ****1/2* - Amazing hardcore match featuring some awesome spots. The match kicked into high gear right off the bat with AJ going airborne over the top rope. The Christian Cross Body off the top of the Ultimate X structure was epic. Tons of great table spots. Rhyno going Gore-crazy. Devon toughing it out after injuring his ankle. Great finish with the Super Olympic Slam off the ladder through a table. I had a hard time choosing between the X-Cup Eliminator and this match as my MOTN but the X-Cup Eliminator won out due to the crazy pace. Still this match was a really close second.


----------



## seabs

*Danielson/Marufuji - ROH. A New Level 
****1/4

Damn, I'm so tempted watch a TNA PPV after seeing some of the ratings for it. 3 ****+ matches!*


----------



## andremt9

Castagnoli vs. McGuinness should be **** 1/4


----------



## KeepItFresh

Seabs said:


> *Danielson/Marufuji - ROH. A New Level
> ****1/4
> 
> Damn, I'm so tempted watch a TNA PPV after seeing some of the ratings for it. 3 ****+ matches!*


The opener was alright, but people are generally overrating it, because it was a glorified spotfest.


----------



## Derek

^^^ I gave it *** 3/4

It was mainly a glorified spotfest, but that was to be expected. Glad to see that Yoshino was used well though.

Danielson vs. Marufuji- A New Level
****-**** 1/4

I thought this one was a little bit better than their first metting way back at Final Battle '05.


----------



## McQueen

Why can't CIMA have good singles matches in Dragon Gate?

You know why? Because he's not Milano Collection AT.


----------



## Derek

Are you saying CIMA's biggest fault is that he isn't Milano Collection AT?


----------



## McQueen

That's everyone's biggest fault really.

But in all seriousness out of the DG CIMA matches I have seen, he's been rather underwhelming.


----------



## Sephiroth

The only thing you need to know is that Ryo Saito kicked out of three Schwein Redlines...yeah. 

Nuff said.

Doi is the fucking man when it comes to singles tho.


----------



## Bubz

opener from victory road was great, glad it got time aswell, yoshino is AWESOME!


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah the 12 man tag was just pretty much a spotfest, but it was a pretty damn incredible spotfest. Tons of spotfest matches get rated ****+ quite frequently and this match was definitely worthy of it IMO. 

****1/4 for me.


----------



## Maxx Hero

McQueen said:


> Why can't CIMA have good singles matches in Dragon Gate?
> 
> You know why? Because he's not Milano Collection AT.


True that! Why can't Milano to DG for a while? That is a legit question. That guy is great. While I wouldn't want Yoshino to go YOSSINO on us and grow out his hair, it would make Mori useful.

As for CIMA I don't think he really ever has good matches, but rather just participates in them. I find him overal just bland and overrated. Really the only good match that he made good I can think of was the title defese against Yoshino.


----------



## seabs

*Just watched Danielson/Black from Souther Navigation. Great match
****1/4 

Watching some TNA Victory Road matches as well now.*


----------



## PulseGlazer

Danielson vs. Hero **** 3/4 - my Match of the Year so far.

Okay, Hero is all about proving he's the best wrestler in the world and Danielson doesn't really think he's much of a threat, choosing to mock Hero and the crowd instead. Brutal arm work changes that and Danielson ends up in trouble, but luckily Hero doesn't have great arm submissions in his arsenal and instead uses Danielson's Cattle Mutilation and Cross-face Chickenwing, both of which Danielson can counter.

Danielson, a but peeved at Hero and the crowd, knows Hero has a busted nose, so he just brutalizes that. Hero stays with his plan and keeps out counter-wrestling Danielson into the Hangmen's clutch. When Dragon escapes from that, he's pissed and begins striking Hero. He shows just how angry he gets at that when he busts out the Nigel style headbutts. That leads to Hero again showing he's superior, this time outstriking Danielson. With a mat advantage and a striking advantage, Danielson is in deep shit, so he gets really cheap for the win, which is built perfectly by how much of a dick he was the whole match. 

And as for the arm selling complaint, Danielson grabbed it regularly, and he used his left arm, the hurt one, precisely once for a strike. I was fine with that. He sold enough to let us know it hurt without building sympathy for himself as a heel. Damn near perfect.


----------



## IC

PulseGlazer said:


> Danielson vs. Hero **** 3/4 - my Match of the Year so far.
> 
> Okay, Hero is all about proving he's the best wrestler in the world and Danielson doesn't really think he's much of a threat, choosing to mock Hero and the crowd instead. Brutal arm work changes that and Danielson ends up in trouble, but luckily Hero doesn't have great arm submissions in his arsenal and instead uses Danielson's Cattle Mutilation and Cross-face Chickenwing, both of which Danielson can counter.
> 
> Danielson, a but peeved at Hero and the crowd, knows Hero has a busted nose, so he just brutalizes that. Hero stays with his plan and keeps out counter-wrestling Danielson into the Hangmen's clutch. When Dragon escapes from that, he's pissed and begins striking Hero. He shows just how angry he gets at that when he busts out the Nigel style headbutts. That leads to Hero again showing he's superior, this time outstriking Danielson. With a mat advantage and a striking advantage, Danielson is in deep shit, so he gets really cheap for the win, which is built perfectly by how much of a dick he was the whole match.
> 
> And as for the arm selling complaint, Danielson grabbed it regularly, and he used his left arm, the hurt one, precisely once for a strike. I was fine with that. He sold enough to let us know it hurt without building sympathy for himself as a heel. Damn near perfect.


Feel I should check this out if it drops into the media section, what show was it?


----------



## seabs

Instant Classic™ said:


> Feel I should check this out if it drops into the media section, what show was it?


*http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...sh-danielson-hero-wxw-2008-16-carat-gold.html

I gave it ****1/2*


----------



## TheFox

MCMG vs AoTF ( ROH Tag Wars) - **** 3/4

ROH MOTY so far. This match had a great background story , the commentators do a good job on explaining it , it also can help if you saw some ROH shows from 2004.
The build-up towards the finish was great. It's nice to see the Guns in other types of matches, not just spotfests like in TNA.
Just a superb match.


----------



## PulseGlazer

I had this as like, my number 3 moty when I saw it, but upon rewatch the really slow start drags it down. It's still great, just not as good as MCMG Briscoes or Steenerico vs. BxB and Shingo.


----------



## TheFox

Haven't seen MCMG/Briscoes yet, I'll probably do that today. If it's as good as the one last year , then it will go on top of list.
And don't get me wrong I liked that fast paced Steenerico/BxB & Shingo match, but it was just too spotty for my taste.


----------



## casper-21

El Dorado - Eye Of The Treasure

KAGETORA & Kota Ibushi vs NOSAWA & MAZADA ***3/4



El Dorado - The Age Of Megalomania

KAGETORA & Kota Ibushi vs Toru Owashi & Takuya Sugawara ***1/2



FIP Redefined

Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens ****1/2 :shocked:



wXw 16 Carat

Bryan Danielson vs Bad Bones ***3/4


----------



## McQueen

Instant Classic™ said:


> Feel I should check this out if it drops into the media section, what show was it?


wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament (Night 3) Semi-Finals. The whole 3 night event was great tbh.

My MOTY is still Strong/Stevens from FIP.


----------



## seabs

*TNA Victory Road: 12 Man Elimination Tag Match
****-****1/4

TNA Victory Road: Full Metal Mayhem
***3/4-****

PWG All Star Weekend Night 1: Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki
*****


----------



## peep4life

Finished watching Day 2 of the WXW 16 Carat Gold Tournament.
Danielson/Maurifuji ****1/4
Douglas/Pain ****1/2
This match is now in my top five of MOTY. Yes it is overkill and way over the top, but it is pure awesomeness throughout. The hell these two guys put themselves through is incredible and I recommend everyone to watch this match.


----------



## watts63

*CHIKARA Young Lions Cup VI Night Three*
Vin Gerard vs. Fire Ant ****1/2


----------



## Saint Dick

Danielson/Hero - 16CG - ****3/4


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect

Victory road 12 man was great ****1/2


----------



## dele

After rewatching:

Tower Cage and Lighttubes Deathmatch
Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto

****1/2

If you want to bitch about the wrestling, go to hell. It's not gonna get better than this for a deathmatch this year. Hopefully I'm wrong.


----------



## Burning Sword

Most recent MOTYC I've seen

*TNA*

Elimination X- ****1/2
Full Metal Mayhem- ***3/4

*ROH*

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler BLack (Southern Navigation)- ****1/2
NRC vs. Team NOAH- ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji (A New Level)- ****1/4
Steenerico vs. Richards & Romero- ****

*WWE*

Triple H vs. John Cena (NOC)- ****1/4
Edge vs. Batista- ***3/4-****


----------



## TheFox

Could someone explain what's so great with that match between Dragon and Tyler from Southern Navigation?
I did not find anything special in that match. *** 1/2 for me.


----------



## Bubz

just watched mcmg/aotf and mcmg/briscoes. both amazing matches the guns are awesome!hard to choose which was better, the aotf match went on forever and i didnt want it to end! i know some people think it went to long but i loved it, probably my roh moty so far


----------



## thepunisherkills

Just watched Briscoes MCMCG

**** 3/4 for me


----------



## McQueen

TheFox said:


> Could someone explain what's so great with that match between Dragon and Tyler from Southern Navigation?
> I did not find anything special in that match. *** 1/2 for me.


Glazer is going to write a 5 page essay on what was awesome about that match now that you brought it up. I have yet to see it.


----------



## Sephiroth

McQueen said:


> Glazer is going to write a 5 page essay on what was awesome about that match now that you brought it up. I have yet to see it.


That is better than sex for Glazer. Can't wait to read it.


----------



## McQueen

You know first hand right Hard Gary? Taking "Inside Pulse" to a whole new level?


----------



## Y²

Bootista vs Punk ***

Triple H vs Edge ***3/4


----------



## seabs

*Dragongate: Dead or Alive - Naruki Doi vs KENTA*
_****1/4_

*Download it here:*
_http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...ad-alive-naruki-doi-vs-kenta.html#post6017618_


----------



## PulseGlazer

Sephiroth said:


> That is better than sex for Glazer. Can't wait to read it.


Someone remind me tomorrow when my friends go away. I'll do it then. I also still owe you guys Guns vs. Briscoes 1.


----------



## Y²

Takeshi Morishima vs Takeshi Rikio
***3/4-****

I was really quite surprised by this match, neither of these guys are well known for putting on a decent match but this one (I felt) was the best match of Morishima's reign. Yes it was only 13Minutes long but it was short and very sweet.

I'm quite the sucker for Lariat's and this match gave no shortage of them, with a lot of spots based around them. Rikio didn't get to much offence in (Which will please most people on this board) in this Morishima dominated match. The finish saw Morishima hit a nasty Lariat almost out of nowhere followed by a Backdrop Driver for the 3 count, (Multiple Finisher's done leading up to that as well) nothing epic or really special but still very convincing and put Morishima over as Bad Ass Mother Fucker.

A strong notch in Morishima's unfolding GHC Heavyweight Championship reign.


----------



## Derek

Pro Wrestling NOAH- GHC Heavyweight Title match
Takeshi Morishima (C) vs. Takeshi Rikio.

A battle of who's the better Takeshi. I've never been a fan of Rikio's work, and he was about average in this match except for a couple points in the match. I got some heat with Rikio now since he stopp Mori from hitting the Shimasault, countering into a second rope Musou.

The match was a battle of superheavyweights, so this was going to be a match of strikes and power moves. The striking wasn't bad, but there were times when they traded clotheslines when if felt a little forced. The last 4 minutes or so is when the pace started to pick up, with each men hitting their signature moves.

Obviously Rikio wasn't going to win the match (Even though he's a former GHC champion himself, he wasn't too well recieved as champion and his reign was somewhat short) but up until the last several minutes, it really didn't feel like a big match. Morishima wins and gets a bit more credibility as champ, and now will face against Kensuke Sasaki in what should be a strong match. 

Rating: *** 1/4


----------



## peep4life

WxW 16 Carat Gold Day 3
Hero vs Danielson ****1/2
Great match, Danielson is so hated in Germany its incredible and the crowd eats up all his heel tactics. Not as good as some have made it out to be, but still an incredible match.


----------



## KingKicks

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008*

*Day One*
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

*Day Two*
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****

*Day Three*
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero ****1/2
Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones ****1/4

And just like that Danielson is now my WOTY with 10 ****+ matches so far this year.


----------



## McQueen

Emil Sitoci is still WOTY IMO. :side:


----------



## Blasko

peep4life said:


> ny its incredible and the crowd eats up all his heel tactics. Not as good as some have made it out to be


 Do explain.


----------



## KingKicks

Final ratings for the 2 great tag matches at European Navigation 08

*GHC Junior Heavyweight Tag Title Match*
KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson and Eddie Edwards ****1/2

Favourite tag match this year

Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji ****1/4-****1/2

If anyone wants me to upload them, then let me know.


----------



## Blasko

Upload both. PLEASE.


----------



## -GP-

Benjo™ said:


> Final ratings for the 2 great tag matches at European Navigation 08
> 
> *GHC Junior Heavyweight Tag Title Match*
> KENTA and Taiji Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson and Eddie Edwards ****1/2
> 
> Favourite tag match this year
> 
> Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji ****1/4-****1/2


From the live, i can say those are about right. I'll be back when i watch them again on DVD


----------



## peep4life

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> Do explain.


I think you gave the match the full five and I've seen some ****3/4 on here as well. Thought the match was great, don't get me wrong, just didn't think it was worthy of the full five, maybe if it had a stronger ending, or if the arm work didn't go on forever I'd had rated it higher. Just didn't completely blow me away like a *****match should.


----------



## vivalabrave

For the first time in a month or so I got around to watching some current stuff.

16 Carat Gold
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush WXW 3/7 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji WXW 3/8 ***3/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero WXW 3/9 ****1/2
Now #2 in my MOTY. Very close to ****3/4.

Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong FIP 2/16 ****1/2

The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. The Briscoes ROH 4/19 ****1/2
The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black ROH 4/18 ****1/2
I like the Briscoes tag a tad more. I originally liked the AOTF match more but the overkill at the end kinda took it down a peg.

Top 5 looks like this
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 2/23 ****3/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero WXW 3/9 ****1/2
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 3/30 ****1/2
The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. The Briscoes ROH 4/19 ****1/2
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong FIP 2/16 ****1/2

Still need to watch the 2 Take No Prisoners matches and the 2 Black-Dragon matches.


----------



## Derek

GHC Jr. Tag title match

KENTA & Taiji Ishimori(c) vs. Eddie Edwards & Bryan Danielson

Solid match for these 2 teams. It was the first time these teams ever faced each other, but they had pretty good chemistry. I loved the part where Edwards oversold KENTA's clothesline, and landed right on his head when he did. See kids, you don't always have to sell a clothesline like it kills you.

Pacing was solid through the match, there were some points where it really seemed like Edwards and Danielson would win. Finish saw Eddie taking a Go 2 Sleep like a champ, right on the chin.

rating: ****-****1/4


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Live impressions obviously don't corrolate to actual ratings, but if I'd definitely suggest watching these five when the Toronto DVD comes out.

Erick Stevens vs. Go Shiozaki
Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli
Roderick Strong vs. Naomichi Marufuji
Nigel vs. Kevin Steen
Aries/Jay Briscoe vs. Jacobs/Black


----------



## vivalabrave

I'm a little late but I finally got around to Take No Prisoners.

Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson ROH 3/16 ****1/2

I'm suprised no one on here like this match as much as I did. I loved all the little counters that only these guys would no about each other. I also loved when Aries took off his elbow pad for the Roarin Elbow and Danielson just jumped at the opportunity to work the arm. I think this may the best match I've ever seen these two have. This sits at #8 in my MOTY list currently.

Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ROH 3/16 ****1/2

I didn't think there was any way that this could live up to the hype or even surpass the match above it, but boy was I wrong. Even knowing the outcome I still could feel a title change in the works. I've only really felt that way about 2 matches (Joe-Punk II and Dragon-Shima MMII). Only Dragon-Nigel 6YA and Dragon-Hero WXW were better to me so far this year.


----------



## dele

Kobashi/KENTA vs Nakashima/K. Sasaki 6/19

**** 1/4


----------



## McQueen

Extra 1/2 star for some lighttubes Dele?

I have that match at the same, KENTA taking swipes at Kenskay was great fun.


----------



## dele

McQueen said:


> Extra 1/2 star for some lighttubes Dele?
> 
> I have that match at the same, KENTA taking swipes at Kenskay was great fun.


Only if it has Kasai jumping off a balcony. I have no clue why no one is drooling all over Kasai's return match. It was awesome.


----------



## Blasko

The link you posted was low quality so I put it on hold after I catch up with some NOAH...

I lost it.


----------



## dele

You do realize there was a link to watch the match in high quality right below the video right?

Edit:

Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsZAO8ERjQ part one


----------



## McQueen

I'm not much of a deathmatch mark Dele, although if I were to watch a deathmatch you better damn believe Big Japan is the first place i'd look. American Indy Deathmatches suck 90% of the time, all spots.


----------



## Blasko

American Indy Deathmatches are fun. Never good.

(Unless if you're Necro or Pondo.)


----------



## Saint Dick

MCMG vs AOTF - Tag Wars - ****3/4

My ROH MOTY.


----------



## McQueen

What is your MOTY Ownage?

Flair/HBK?


----------



## M.S.I.I.

Is there a Daily Motion, or straight download to the Guns-AOTF match?


----------



## Saint Dick

McQueen said:


> What is your MOTY Ownage?
> 
> Flair/HBK?


Yeah but I need to watch it again to see if my rating holds up. I have HBK/Flair, Danielson/Hero and Guns/AOTF at ****3/4.


----------



## McQueen

Fair Enough sir, fair enough.


----------



## Saint Dick

McQueen said:


> Fair Enough sir, fair enough.


What else is MOTY worthy on the indy scene?


----------



## McQueen

I'm actually pretty behind on stuff from this year

My current MOTY is Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens from FIP Redefined.

Both McGuinness/Aries Title matches have been good, but the Rising Above match technically happened last year.

Tyler Black and Danielson have reportedly had a few awesome matches (but as of now i've only seen the first)

McGuinness/Danielson from the 6th Year Anniversary show (those two in a great match, shocking I know)

Aries/Danielson from Take No Prisoners

McGuinness/Black from Take No Prisoners

All 4 of Danielson matches from the wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament in Germany were good/very good (vs. Quackenbush, vs. Marufuji, vs. Hero and vs. Bad Bones a german guy)

Age of the Fall vs Motor City Machine Guns (Tag Wars '08)

Briscoes vs Motor City Machine Guns (Return Engagement - I like that one a lot more than last years overrated spotfest)

Masato Tanaka of ECW fame has been having a pretty awesome string of Zero One Title defences as well, I really enjoyed his match with Koji Kanemoto.

Kobashi & KENTA vs Sasaki & Nakajima was pretty good too.


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> Masato Tanaka of ECW fame has been having a pretty awesome string of Zero One Title defences as well, I really enjoyed his match with Koji Kanemoto.


My MOTY thus far is probably his defence against Sekimoto from 4/28 BJW but nobody seems to have watched that apart from me and dele :no:
(maybe Watts too...)


----------



## McQueen

I saw that too actually, And I enjoyed it.


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> I saw that too actually, And I enjoyed it.


Well done, sir 

i'll have to watch it again one of these days to make sure i didn't overrate it but i'd say ****1/2-3/4.


----------



## McQueen

I had it at **** 1/4


----------



## stinger-splash

Just watched the VR O8 opener: Elimination X **** - ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> I had it at **** 1/4


Watched it again just now and i'll admit 3/4 is too much (arm selling drops it), but i'd say ****1/2 for me. Finishing stretch is brilliant.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GP_Punk said:


> My MOTY thus far is probably his defence against Sekimoto from 4/28 BJW but nobody seems to have watched that apart from me and dele :no:
> (maybe Watts too...)


God dammit, man, I'm getting there!



McQueen said:


> I had it at **** 1/4


Wasn't that the 1/1 match? I think I posted a link for some peeps a while back, which was said January match. Punk, you're talking about the 4/28 match, right? If not then just disregard everything I say .

Either way, I REALLY need to catch up with the indy and puro scene from this year. I'm only as far as Bedlam in Beantown for ROH (not full shows; only the pimped matches) and I'm still in like, March, for puro. I suck.


----------



## stinger-splash

Anyone ratings for the CMLL Grand Prix match? I heard it was a very good match..


----------



## -GP-

Andy3000 said:


> Punk, you're talking about the 4/28 match, right? If not then just disregard everything I say .
> 
> Either way, I REALLY need to catch up with the indy and puro scene from this year. I'm only as far as Bedlam in Beantown for ROH (not full shows; only the pimped matches) and I'm still in like, March, for puro. I suck.


Yeah, i'm talking about 4/28. 
I need to catch up on a crapload of stuff too tbh...Briscoes/MCMG II, Briscoes/AotF, bunch of Danielson stuff...

Also got European Navigation in the mail today so i'll have to watch at least the two tags again for a final rating


----------



## Blasko

stinger-splash said:


> Anyone ratings for the CMLL Grand Prix match? I heard it was a very good match..


 saw it last night. Too fucking confusing to give a proper rating.


----------



## stinger-splash

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> saw it last night. Too fucking confusing to give a proper rating.


Worth watching? (considering it lasts one hour)


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Excuse the ignorance, but what is a CMLL Grand Prix match?


----------



## Blasko

It was pretty much TNA jobbers vs. CMLL Super stars, Andy. 

I'd personally pass. I'm not really big on the lucha style though.


----------



## .EMO

The recent Tyler Black and Dragon match, was possibly the best match ive seen live.


----------



## Maxx Hero

The Grand Prix is a 7 on 7 (I could be wrong with that number, it may be 8) elimination tag. This year it was TNA guys (MCMG, Koslov, Dutt, Leathal...etc) against some of the biggest names in CMLL. Match was nearly an hour long. I haven't heard any star quotes yet though. Does anyone know if they will put that show on Galavision? I used to TiVo both AAA and CMLL but I stopped cause I don't have any time to watch it, but I need to reset that if this show is on because the whole card is good.

I also am mega behind in viewing. The last ROH stuff I have seen was the pimped matches from November and December, and the last full show was Honor Nation. I also haven't seen any Dragon Gate from this year, but I am doing a big order on IVP later today...

Best of Kobashi vs. Kawada V.1 [630] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1537
Best of Kobashi vs. Kawada V.2 [631] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1538
Best of Kobashi vs. Kawada V.3 [632] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1539
Best of Kobashi vs. Kawada V.4 [633] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1540
Best of Misawa vs. Kawada V.06 [5171] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=2268
Best of Misawa vs. Kawada V.07 [5172] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=2269
Best of Misawa vs. Kawada V.09 [5174] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=2271
Dragon Gate 01/13/2008 January 13th 2008 [2831] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=84_244&products_id=3291
Dragon Gate 02/07/2008 February 7th 2008 [2870] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=84_244&products_id=3459
Dragon Gate 02/21/2008 February 21st 2008 [2871] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=84_244&products_id=3458
Dragon Gate 03/20/2008 March 20th 2008 (2 Discs) [2893] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=84_244&products_id=3619
Dragon Gate 05/05/2008 May 5th 2008 (2 Discs) [3736] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=226&products_id=3675
NOAH 07/15/2007 July 15th 2007 (2 Discs) [5247] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_153&products_id=2506
CMLL 01/29/2005 January 29th 2005 [579] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?cPath=92_96&products_id=243
ROH invades Japan V.1 (IVP Custom Comp) [4464] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1739
Best of Jack Evans V.2 (IVP Custom Comp) [50] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1561
Toryumon 03/25/2007 March 25th 2007 [5021] http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=1779


----------



## thepunisherkills

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> It was pretty much TNA jobbers vs. CMLL Super stars, Andy.
> 
> I'd personally pass. I'm not really big on the lucha style though.


AJ STYLES Is not A jobber 

The match is on youtube if anyone is interested I can post the links. The match went almost an hour long but I still think the tag match from Victory road was way better. And Ultimo Guerrero challenged Alex Shelley to a Hair vs mask match for the future. Will he accept?

my rating

*** 

Like Inoki said too confusing.


----------



## dele

Andy3000 said:


> Wasn't that the 1/1 match? I think I posted a link for some peeps a while back, which was said January match. Punk, you're talking about the 4/28 match, right? If not then just disregard everything I say .
> 
> Either way, I REALLY need to catch up with the indy and puro scene from this year. I'm only as far as Bedlam in Beantown for ROH (not full shows; only the pimped matches) and I'm still in like, March, for puro. I suck.


Their 1/1 match was better than their 4/28 match. Partly because I was there watching it live...

Here's my ratings on Sekimoto's big three matches this year:

4/28 M Tanaka vs D Sekimoto **** 1/4

1/1 M Tanaka vs D Sekimoto **** 1/2

1/2 D Sekimoto and Y Sasaki vs T Sasaki and Y Miyamoto **** 3/4 (my current MOTY)


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

-Blaskonio Inoki- said:


> It was pretty much TNA jobbers vs. CMLL Super stars, Andy.
> 
> I'd personally pass. I'm not really big on the lucha style though.


Me neither, man. If Dr. Wagner Jr. was in it I'd watch it, but he's not, so I'm not. 

Shelly/Ultimo sohuld be good if it happens though...



dele3344 said:


> Their 1/1 match was better than their 4/28 match. Partly because I was there watching it live...
> 
> Here's my ratings on Sekimoto's big three matches this year:
> 
> 4/28 M Tanaka vs D Sekimoto **** 1/4
> 
> 1/1 M Tanaka vs D Sekimoto **** 1/2
> 
> 1/2 D Sekimoto and Y Sasaki vs T Sasaki and Y Miyamoto **** 3/4 (my current MOTY)


The 1/2 tag is in my top 5 this year for sure. I've got it at ****1/2, but I have a, perhaps inexplicable, love for Seki/Mammoth from 2/9 (which I also have at ****1/2) and that sits third in my MOTY list.

I've got the Seki/Tanaka 1/1 match at ****1/4, btw.


----------



## Blasko

if you do watch it, turn the volume low. 

The fans are RABID.


----------



## thepunisherkills

Andy3000 said:


> Me neither, man. If Dr. Wagner Jr. was in it I'd watch it, but he's not, so I'm not.
> 
> Shelly/Ultimo sohuld be good if it happens though...
> 
> 
> 
> The 1/2 tag is in my top 5 this year for sure. I've got it at ****1/2, but I have a, perhaps inexplicable, love for Seki/Mammoth from 2/9 (which I also have at ****1/2) and that sits third in my MOTY list.
> 
> I've got the Seki/Tanaka 1/1 match at ****1/4, btw.


DR. Wagner was in it.


----------



## -GP-

Andy3000 said:


> The 1/2 tag is in my top 5 this year for sure. I've got it at ****1/2, but I have a, perhaps inexplicable, love for Seki/Mammoth from 2/9 (which I also have at ****1/2) and that sits third in my MOTY list.
> 
> I've got the Seki/Tanaka 1/1 match at ****1/4, btw.


Yeah, that tag is amazing...probably the best tag this year at ****1/2 for me. 
I have two Steenerico matches, one Shingo/Hulk and the Kensuke Office tag at 4+1/2 too but the BJW one nips ahead.
In fact, i'd say Sekimoto dead weight Germans it ahead...

We still need to clear up the "Rising Above" Aries/Nigel situation because that one is pretty high on my list (needs a second viewing too though so it may drop...)
I know it was from last year but got released this year blah blah blah, but if we didn't get it involved in the 2007 MOTYC thread (did we?) and we don't get it involved now, then it'd be like the match got lost in the shuffle


----------



## McQueen

Yeah, we need a Lucha troll people. Someone needs to step up.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

thepunisherkills said:


> DR. Wagner was in it.


He was? Man, I thought he was still involved in that messy contract dispute. I guess I should pay a little more attention to TNA and I'd know these things... or not. 



McQueen said:


> Yeah, we need a Lucha troll people. Someone needs to step up.


I second this request.


----------



## watts63

My complete list of this year so far...

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 3
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero ****3/4-*****

BJW 1/2/08
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Take No Prisoners
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ****1/2

BJW 4/28/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/2

CHIKARA Young Lions Cup VI Night Three
Vin Gerard vs. Fire Ant ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 5/23/08
Akitoshi Saito & Bison Smith vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/2

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda ****1/2

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2/08
Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Suguira vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2

FIP Redefined
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Judgment Day '08
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4-****1/2

ZERO1-MAX Ichii Senshin GW Special
Masato Tanaka & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/14/08
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/21/08
Kenta Kobashi, Shuhei Taniguchi & Tamon Honda vs. Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/4

BJW 2/9/08
Mammoth Sasaki vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/4

IWA-MS 500th Show
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4

ROH Proving Ground
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ****1/4

WWE One Night Stand '08
Edge vs. Undertaker ****1/4

ROH A New Level
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****1/4

WWE Backlash '08
Undertaker vs. Edge ****-****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Edge vs. Undertaker ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Gran Akuma & Icarus vs. Solider & Fire Ant ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
Human Tornado vs. Candice LaRae ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ****-****1/4

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 2
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****-****1/4

PWG Pearl Habra
Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #80
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma & Yasushi Kanda vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk, YAMATO, Cyber Kong & Shinobu ****-****1/4

Kensuke Office 3/28/08
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Magnitude Kishiwada ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & Ryusuke Taguchi ****-****1/4

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 3
Bad Bones vs. Bryan Danielson ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/1/08
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 1
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ****

WWE Backlash '08
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels ****

ROH Southern Navigation
Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Go Shiozaki vs. Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero ****

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom II
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****

CHIKARA King of Trios '08 Night Three
Eddie Kingston, Joker & Sabian vs. Delirous, Hallowicked & Helios ****

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka ****

IWA-MS April Bloodshowers '08
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

DG The Gate of Generation
SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

NJPW 4/13/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher ****

WWE Judgment Day '08
Edge vs. Undertaker ****

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi ****

PWG iDia de los Dangerous!
Human Tornado vs. Necro Butcher ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 3
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Human Tornado vs. SHINGO, Austin Aries, Jack Evans & Cyber Kong ****

ROH Return Engagement
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico **** 
*​


----------



## casper-21

BJW 23.06.08:

Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ***3/4


----------



## peep4life

ROH Tag Wars 2008
Briscoes vs Ibusi/Aries ****
MCMG vs AOTF ****1/2


----------



## dele

casper-21 said:


> BJW 23.06.08:
> 
> Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ***3/4


Only *** 3/4? What didn't you like about that match?


----------



## Saint Dick

Angle/Christian - Against All Odds - ****1/4
Angle/Joe - Lockdown - ****1/4
Angle/Styles - Slammiversary - ****-****1/4


----------



## Word

Going to make a decent WWE 10 once Ive re-watched a few matches.

watts63, you got some high WWE ratings which I haven't seen that high. I wouldn't argue with them though.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Danielson and Edwards vs. KENTA and Ishimori - **** 1/4

So, basically, Danielson didn't want KENTA at first, but when he finally got him, he really had KENTA's number to the point where KENTA just wanted to eliminate him and take out Edwards. That was really neccessry because Danielson destroyed Ishimori. Edwards was very good against Taiji too and really impressed. Ishimori meanwhile just tried to pick his spots, but kept getting killed. This would be higher if not for all that pointless armwork on Ishimori in the middle.


----------



## casper-21

dele3344 said:


> Only *** 3/4? What didn't you like about that match?


I've liked a lot the match, I have also put him in my MOTYs. I am usually simply very low with the votes.

MOTY 2008
1. Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - FIP Redefined
2. Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show
3. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Genesis
3 bis. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 28.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
4. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi - ROH SOH3
5. Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji - ROH A New Level
6. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH Breakout
7. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk vs Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - Dragon Gate 15.01.08 (GHC tag junior)
8. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 02.01.08 (BJW tag title)
9. Takeshi Morishima vs Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 14.06.08 (GHC World title)
10. Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH SOH3 (ROH World title)
11. Briscoes vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Return Engagement
12. Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ROH Take No Prisoners (ROH World title)
13. Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ROH Take No Prisoners
14. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Briscoes vs Jack Evans & Jigsaw vs Brent Albright & B.J.Whitmer (ultimate endurance) - ROH Proving Ground (ROH tag)
15. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Gate Of Generation (GHC tag junior)
16. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Taiyo Kea - AJPW 06.04.08 Champion Carnival
17. Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - ROH Return Engagement
18. CIMA, Go Shiozaki & Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero - ROH DGC2
19. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW WKingdom (IWGP title)
20. Kohei Suwama vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - AJPW 09.04.08 Champion Carnival Final
21. Briscoes vs Austin Aries & Kota Ibushi - ROH Tag Wars
22. Masato Tanaka vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 13.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
23. Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 23.06.08
24. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs vs Ikuto Hidaka & Dick Togo - Zero-1 Genesis (NWA Int Light tag)
25. KENTA vs Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive
26. Jimmy Jacobs vs B.J.Whitmer (no ropes barbed wire) - IWA-MS April Bloodshower
27. Kota Ibushi & KAGETORA vs NOSAWA & MAZADA - El Dorado Age Of Megalomania (UWA tag titles)


----------



## dele

casper-21 said:


> I've liked a lot the match, I have also put him in my MOTYs. I am usually simply very low with the votes.


Good enough for me.


----------



## stinger-splash

Ownage™ said:


> Angle/Christian - Against All Odds - ****1/4
> Angle/Joe - Lockdown - ****1/4
> Angle/Styles - Slammiversary - ****-****1/4


****1/4+
****1/2
****1/4

Add the 12-man Elimination X match(****1/4) from VR to that list and you have the best TNA MOTYC's.


----------



## Blasko

That awesome Puro site upped Kasai's return match, Dele. 

Rating in a little while~


----------



## Spartanlax

Attention all K-Mart employees: you suck.

<3


----------



## T-C

I'm with Lax. I'd happliy marry Blasko


----------



## Blasko

You guys are suppose to be supportive. 

wtf


----------



## -Mystery-

Target > K-Mart


----------



## Blasko

...............

Mark. You made Rockstar come out of my nose. 

:lmao


----------



## T-C

Well that has made my day worthwhile.


----------



## Blasko

Looking into a mirror daily should do too.


----------



## T-C

You absolute charmer you.


----------



## Blasko

I feel like shit when I look into a mirror...

But when I peak my head into T-C's window while he's changing, I feel strange.

:$


----------



## T-C

It gets me off too.


----------



## Blasko

Same for Eric. And Lax. 

CM Skittle is aroused thinking of it.


----------



## Burning Sword

*NOAH Eurepean Navigation*

Bryan Danielson & Eddie Edwards vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori- ****1/4
Naomichi Marufuji & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Go Shiozaki & Kenta Kobashi- ****


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Homoeroticism runnin' wild, BROTHER!

Sup T-C, ya filthy bitch?!


----------



## T-C

Andy is that your way of asking for a piece of the action?


----------



## dele

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> That awesome Puro site upped Kasai's return match, Dele.
> 
> Rating in a little while~


Which awesome puro site would that be for future reference?


----------



## Blasko

dele3344 said:


> Which awesome puro site would that be for future reference?


 A man name David D. runs that bad boy...

Ask for a link in PM. I can't post it.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

T-C said:


> Andy is that your way of asking for a piece of the action?


I was trying to be subtle


----------



## Blasko

You have to be straight to the point, Andy. Other Wrestling Trolls don't like beating around the bush. some don't like bush at all.


----------



## T-C

I can appreciate that. Dive in, we are all friends here.


----------



## Spartanlax

I love all of you.

Sorry, off-topic or not it needed to be said.


----------



## T-C

I think that after this discussion we have come to the conclusion that Lax and Jay are match of the year.


----------



## Blasko

YOu'd be glad to know that me and Lax have been paired up to do a weekly podcast for Aaron.


----------



## Maxx Hero

You guys are pretty odd...I presonally stick to the ladies.

Also K-Mart blows...


----------



## Sephiroth

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> A man name David D. runs that bad boy...
> 
> Ask for a link in PM. I can't post it.


David Duchovny is soooo awesome. X-Files AND Puro


----------



## PulseGlazer

Okay... no way is YLC final of Fire Ant vs. Vin Gerard ****1/2. First off, the story was absolutely great. Vin heeling it up and Fire ant having too much... fire... to stay down, but they were really sloppy with a lot of bigger spots and yes, quality of the wrestlers wrestling counts and the hope spots were particularly sloppy! You could see them slow to set up spots and make sure they knew what to do when. Then, the fighting spirit by a HEEL out a burning fucking hammer... really, Vin, go to hell for that. *** 1/2- *** 3/4.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Tanahashi vs. AJ- Tanahashi starts off ahead of AJ on everything, but AJ hits a big move, then shows he can hang with Tanahashi athletically, so Tanahashi is all FUCK THAT and breaks AJ's legs to bits and goes "hang with me now you pussy!" AJ, his speed gone, takes control with power, totally catching Tanahashi off guard and nearly wins, thouh he totally ignores the leg. Tanahashi uses speed, figuring AJ can't match that now, but AJ is ready for that and keeps control until a totally gay ref bump. That causes dueling ball shots which get us back to even.

AJ had advantage, so he's up first for Styles Clash, but Tanahashi with recovery time counters it and AJ's leg is smashed more. AJ is back with the Pelle, with a hurt leg, stupidly. Tanahashi wins a reversal war and uses speed, a frog splash to finish. *** 3/4. Not memorable enough for 4 and AJ didn't sell the leg at all, but still very good and really fun.


----------



## Blasko

I don't blame them for sloppy spots. this was their first BIG match. (No much for Vin, since Equinox/Hero was 'big') but still, I'd think you get the idea of were I am trying to get from.

Oh. Vin no selling the Burning Hammer nearly made me X out the match. :side:


----------



## vivalabrave

PulseGlazer said:


> Tanahashi vs. AJ- Tanahashi starts off ahead of AJ on everything, but AJ hits a big move, then shows he can hang with Tanahashi athletically, so Tanahashi is all FUCK THAT and breaks AJ's legs to bits and goes "hang with me now you pussy!" AJ, his speed gone, takes control with power, totally catching Tanahashi off guard and nearly wins, thouh he totally ignores the leg. Tanahashi uses speed, figuring AJ can't match that now, but AJ is ready for that and keeps control until a totally gay ref bump. That causes dueling ball shots which get us back to even.
> 
> AJ had advantage, so he's up first for Styles Clash, but Tanahashi with recovery time counters it and AJ's leg is smashed more. AJ is back with the Pelle, with a hurt leg, stupidly. Tanahashi wins a reversal war and uses speed, a frog splash to finish. *** 3/4. Not memorable enough for 4 and AJ didn't sell the leg at all, but still very good and really fun.


Tanahashi basball sliding out of the ring and kicking the cameraman makes it ****. :agree:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

vivalabrave said:


> Tanahashi basball sliding out of the ring and kicking the cameraman makes it ****. :agree:


I seem to remember you and I discussing how awesome that was a few months ago.

Totally agree with everything you said anyway, Glazer, and I recently bumped the rating down to ***3/4 after a re-watch last month (I much preferred Tana's 2/23 match with Bernard, btw).

Strange how I can re-watch matches from February, but can't seem to get around to watching any recent ROH.


----------



## McQueen

PulseGlazer said:


> Okay... no way is YLC final of Fire Ant vs. Vin Gerard ****1/2. First off, it happened in CHIKARA it's bound to suck. - **


I agree. :side:


----------



## Sephiroth

*Respect Is Earned 2*
Fight Without Honor: Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ***** 1/4*
ROH World Tag Team Titles: Age of the Fall (Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black) vs. Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - ***** 1/2*


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Respect Is Earned II*

*Fight Without Honor*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens *****1/4-****1/2*

*ROH World Tag Team Title Match*
Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries *****1/2*


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'm guessing RIE II aired on PPV some time recently. Or what? I'm so out of the loop with ROH.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah, debuted last night Andyman.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'm so far behind I probably won't get to it until Respect is Earned III.


----------



## -Mystery-

Sephiroth said:


> *Respect Is Earned 2*
> Fight Without Honor: Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ***** 1/4*
> ROH World Tag Team Titles: Age of the Fall (Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black) vs. Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - ***** 1/2*


I second this.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Respect Is Earned II*

*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens *
_****1/4_

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries*
_****1/2_


----------



## -GP-

*ROH Respect Is Earned II*

*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens* - ****1/4
I've seen these two go to chopsville so many times, but i STILL flinch for every single one of them...f'n insane...this was war.

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries* - ****1/2
Everything was done great. The brawl at the start, Tyler and Dragon trying to reason with their teammates, Aries and Jacobs trying to get to each other all the time, and the finish was brilliant.

I'd say Nigel - Go just about edges **** too - wouldn't disagree with the 3+3/4s i'm seeing though. 
Nigel is just awesome at playing off the crowd.

EDIT:
Line of the Night:
Kevin Steen (to El Generico): *"Do something flippy!!!"*
:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Shaw13

AOTF vs. Danielson and Aries **** 1/4
Strong vs. Stevens ****

I enjoyed both, really good to watch but I give the tag match a higher rating because it just appealled to me more. More like my kind of wrestling, plus I am an open Danielson fan.


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> I don't blame them for sloppy spots. this was their first BIG match. (No much for Vin, since Equinox/Hero was 'big') but still, I'd think you get the idea of were I am trying to get from.
> 
> Oh. Vin no selling the Burning Hammer nearly made me X out the match. :side:


I'm not saying I hate them for it or anything, but that they were sloppy should factor into a rating of quality, no?

I actually really like both, especially Gerard.


----------



## Blasko

I never said about hating anyone...

Though, I have personal issues with Vin. He's making moves on my lady.


----------



## peep4life

ROH Return Engagement
MCMG vs Briscoes ****1/2
Ibushi vs Generico ****1/2 Apparently I'm just getting suckered into Ibushi's moves because I'm not that familiar with them, but I fucking loved this match.


----------



## Bubz

just saw the fight without honor, amazingly stiff! alot like the fight from supercard, but this time with a ladder and tables lol, the end spot was awesome! i pooed it as they were so close to the turnbuckles probably **** - ****1/4


----------



## watts63

*ROH Respect is Earned II*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****-****1/4


----------



## dele

I finally got around to watching Shinobu/Teioh vs Madoka/Mashimo (not sure on the pronunciation)

**** 3/4+

Great storytelling, great angle going in with Shinobu going for Teioh's approval, and amazing match. Better than the 1/2 Sekimoto/Sasaki vs Sasaki/Miyamoto match.


----------



## Blasko

Since I am an utter Teioh mark, I need to get onto that ASAP.

I take it you found the wonders of that awesome Puro site?


----------



## dele

You never PM'ed me the link my dear.


----------



## Bubz

*aries and dragon vs tyler and jimmy* - ****1/2

awesome awesome match especially when it got down to dragon and tyler, tyler is the man!


----------



## Kapone89

*2008/05/23 BJW
Kengo Mashimo & Madoka Vs. Men's Teioh & Shinobu - ****1/2-****3/4*

Really good match.


----------



## Saint Dick

McGuinness/Danielson - 6th Anniversary Show - ****3/4

Fantastic psychology. Almost as good as their Unified match and my new MOTY.


----------



## -GP-

Kapone89 said:


> *2008/05/23 BJW
> Kengo Mashimo & Madoka Vs. Men's Teioh & Shinobu *


somebody needs to hook us all up with this one...looking at you dele


----------



## dele

GP_Punk said:


> somebody needs to hook us all up with this one...looking at you dele


I bought it as a DVD. I'll look around for it, but no promises.

Edit: I did find it on youtube. Hopefully it holds you over.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXJNMEqI2yM
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuKmuIA-Qac&feature=related
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2D8CbHF9h8&feature=related


----------



## -GP-

dele3344 said:


> I bought it as a DVD. I'll look around for it, but no promises.


yeah, i ended up having to pick up a DVD for the Sekimoto/Sasaki vs. Miyamoto/Sasaki one too...IVP here i come i suppose 

EDIT:
Thanks for the YouTube links, but i think i'll go the IVP route...rest of the show any good?


----------



## Goku

Ownage™ said:


> McGuinness/Danielson - 6th Anniversary Show - ****3/4
> 
> Fantastic psychology. Almost as good as their Unified match and my new MOTY.


Nowhere near their Unified match imo, *****1/4* tops from me


----------



## Kapone89

BTW everyone the Mashimo, Madoka Vs. Teioh, Shinobu match 
is on the great mans site. I demand you all to go there and get the match.


----------



## -GP-

Kapone89 said:


> BTW everyone the Mashimo, Madoka Vs. Teioh, Shinobu match
> is on the great mans site. I demand you all to go there and get the match.


I knew He wouldn't let us down


----------



## antoniomare007

dele3344 said:


> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXJNMEqI2yM
> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuKmuIA-Qac&feature=related
> 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2D8CbHF9h8&feature=related


that was all kinds of awesome


----------



## Saint Dick

Danielson/Black - Breakout - ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

*2008/05/23 BJW
Kengo Mashimo & Madoka Vs. MEN's Teioh & Shinobu - ****1/2-****3/4*

Fantastic stuff. Story is "Pre-Injured Body Part Working 101" that works very well, along with the standard big powerhouse vs. nippy junior plus some experience vs. strength/speed thrown in.
Shinobu's arm selling (especially early on) should go on a DVD and be shown to anyone who even thinks about going to the ring with a bandaged body part.

Better than Sasaki/Sekimoto vs. Miyamoto/Sasaki from 1/2? Might very well be...


----------



## McQueen

Time to watch that match then it seems.


----------



## Burning Sword

*KENTA vs. Katsuhito Nakajima (Kensuke Office 6/13/08)- ****-****1/4 *

Great Juniors action right here with both men bringing the hate early on. Nakajima looked really good here working on KENTA's bad leg and kicking out of much of KENTA's arsenal. 

I also saw the Shingo/BxB Hulk 60-Minute Draw, but it was clipped to only showing half of that match. It was the typical Dragon Gate Main Event with Faction Interference and overkill at the end, but it was still sweet. **** for that one.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

GP_Punk said:


> *2008/05/23 BJW
> Kengo Mashimo & Madoka Vs. MEN's Teioh & Shinobu - ****1/2-****3/4*
> 
> Fantastic stuff. Story is "Pre-Injured Body Part Working 101" that works very well, along with the standard big powerhouse vs. nippy junior plus some experience vs. strength/speed thrown in.
> Shinobu's arm selling (especially early on) should go on a DVD and be shown to anyone who even thinks about going to the ring with a bandaged body part.
> 
> Better than Sasaki/Sekimoto vs. Miyamoto/Sasaki from 1/2? Might very well be...


Wow, I think I should see that. I just wish I had at least _some_ motivation to watch wrestling from this year, that way I'd be a little further than February as far as 2008 puro goes.


----------



## McQueen

I tried to download that tag today but it didn't work out for me, bad link i'm afraid. I will see it soon though.


----------



## Saint Dick

Danielson/Black - Southern Navigation - ****

Not as good as their first match but still great.

Danielson/Aries vs Black/Jacobs - Respect Is Earned II - ****1/4


----------



## -GP-

McQueen said:


> I tried to download that tag today but it didn't work out for me, bad link i'm afraid. I will see it soon though.


there's a pretty good version on that great man's site...megaupload link i think
EDIT: checked it now, it's MU and it works


----------



## McQueen

Didn't work for me earlier, i'll try it again.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Jack Evans and Roderick Strong vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - DDT4 Finals
- Great shit. Very sprinty but it's not too fast for the finals, with some really cool sequences and stuff thrown in. Lots of insane dives with a wild finish. ****1/4


----------



## volcanic

*DASH THE VOLCANO ROAD: Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. KENTA (6/13/08) - **** 1/4*

good stiff match from the juniors with a fantastic finishing stretch. 'Jima kicking out of one Go 2 Sleep and beautifully countering another into a Victory Roll was probably the highlight for me.

*Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - Southern Navigation - *****

Black keeps looking better and better. solid mat work from Dragon and some excruciating submissions.


----------



## - Styles -

*Aj vs Angle - Last man standing - Hard Justice*

*****1/2*

That's right  better than their slammi match. Had everything I wanted in it. Great back and forth action and sick sick finish. Angle pulled out all the stops even hitting a damn somersault plancha off the ramp! And Aj was a man possessed. He didn't try and outwrestle Kurt this time he tried to outright kill the man.

I'll need to re-watch it as I was on a stream but it was incredible on first viewing.


----------



## Taroostyles

AJ Styles/Kurt Angle-Last Man Standing-Hard Justice-****1/2


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles (Last Man Standing), Hard Justice - ****1/4.

I felt both did such a great job of putting over the brutality of the match and what they were willing to do just to keep each other down. This could be the best TNA match that I have witnessed for at least now.


----------



## Maxx Hero

How was the rest of the show. It looked tasty on paper, but could have been Russofied into suckage...

Did the finish to the show seem like a sublimital hint at JJ or was it flat out _MY NAME IS DON WEST AND I AM MARKING FOR JARRETT!_?


----------



## McQueen

The report I saw (Glazer's) Maxx made it sound like it was all crap except AJ/Kurt.


----------



## - Styles -

Show was pretty good besides the dreadful Tux match everything else was at least decent. Here's my ratings for the whole show.


Petey vs Creed - ****1/2 *
BP/Kong vs Gail/Wilde/ODB - **3/4*
LaX vs Beer Money - *****
Lethal/Dutt - *DUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD*
NJ street fight - ****1/4*
Aj vs Angle - *****1/2*
Booker vs Joe - ****
*

Just saw PG ratings, surprised he went so low for the opener I loved that match. But I did miss the first minute or two of it.


----------



## Taroostyles

The show was not all crap at all, the only really bad things were Dutt/Lethal and the main event getting cut short.

Just saw that report, and all I'll say is that I respectfully disagree with pretty much the entire thing. He makes it sound like the worst show of all time when pretty much everyone else I've seen has agreed it was probably the best or 2nd best TNA show this year.

The only matches even in the same neighborhood as me were AJ/Angle and the KO tag, Styles ratings are pretty close to my own. (cept for the KO tag) 

Meltzer seemed to really enjoy the show and he said the wrestling was really good in matches like LAX/BMI, KO Tag, and Petey/Creed.


----------



## KingKicks

TNA Hard Justice - Last Man Standing
AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle *****1/4-****1/2*

Angle really did pull out alot more then i expected. Due to the stream, I'll need to watch it again before deciding on a final rating.


----------



## IC

Petey Williams vs Consequences Creed - ****½* - Decent match, but not close to Williams/Kaz imo.

AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - *****¼-½* - MOTN and probably TNA's MOTY. I more or less agree with Glazer's assessment of the match, but could bump it to ****½ with a proper viewing.

Also this made me :lmao



> I’d like to send a big fuck you and die to all of the Pulse Wrestling writers who refused to write about this (even for free), leading to me being forced to. I’m far less logical now than I was when this began by osmosis and I hate you all. See you next week for ROH Weekly, wherein I attempt to regain my sanity.


----------



## seabs

*AJ/Kurt sounds great. Will have to try and watch that along with their match from Slammiversary.*


----------



## Word

Any blood in the LMS?


----------



## IC

Word said:


> Any blood in the LMS?


Not that I recall, there was no use of weapons. There was blood in the ME though.


----------



## casper-21

JAPW Reclaiming Hudson:

Teddy Hart vs Homicide vs Eddie Kingston (Jersey Street Fight) ****


----------



## peep4life

Danielson/Marifuji- ROH A New Level ****1/2
These guys work so well together, great storytelling and great counters throughout. Slightly above their WxW match which I had at ****1/4


----------



## andremt9

AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle -Last Man Standing - Hard Justice- **** 1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

Last Man Standing: Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles

Can this save the show?

The Memphis stall starts this off and leads to Kurt beating on AJ without an early-face shine period. About 2 minutes in Kurt gets the chin lock. Angle matches have such poor structure.

AJ comes back and Kurt takes a silly bump over the top to the floor. AJ dives after as Don West notes that this is almost like a fight to AJ. Thanks Don. AJ is in control and intelligently uses hard strikes and throws Angle into things to keep ahead of the accomplished mat wrestler.

Angle again heel’s his way into control, begging off and throwing AJ to the floor. Angle is in control and northern lights suplexes AJ into the guardrail. Well, Kurt is attacking after using heel tactics to control, while AJ is trying to counter with strikes and athleticism. Let’s see how this plays out.

AJ’s back is hurt, but he regains control momentarily anyway. Angle throws AJ off the stage then flips off the stage at AJ (!!!). Kurt is vicious tonight. He brings Styles back to the ring with a backbreaker before going back to the chinlock. 

Hope spots happen and Angle controls some more. Eventually they do a double knockout. 

AJ is up and controls finally. Apparently his back is okay because he locks in the torture rack. Angle manages an Ankle Lock, but AJ knocks him off. AJ goes up top, but is caught with a powerbomb. Angle tries the Styles Clash, but AJ counters to an Ankle Lock.

Angle taps out after a bit. Why wouldn’t he do that immediately so he could minimize damage and have a 10 count to recover? Angle gets up naturally, limping and hits a low blow to regain control. 

Angle hits a bunch of German Suplexes for a near fall, but is soon after hit with a Pelle. AJ goes up and is caught with the top rope German suplex for another near fall. Why is AJ not staying down to get the 10 count to recover? These guys strategy sucks, which is a shame, because the match is great.

An Angle Slam finally gets three on AJ. AJ doesn’t stay down and immediately reverses another Angle Slam into a Styles Clash for three. 10 count again. 

Angle gets up. AJ takes him to the top and both stand there. Kurt is DDTed with both standingon the top. Pin and 10 count again. AJ wins.

AJ defeats Kurt Angle (Pin, Top Rope DDT, **** 1/4)
Good selling, logical story. The poor handling of the rules hurt, but everything else was top notch. Kurt taking these spots with a broken neck is absolutely and unequivocally insane.


----------



## -GP-

casper-21 said:


> JAPW Reclaiming Hudson:
> 
> Teddy Hart vs Homicide vs Eddie Kingston (Jersey Street Fight) ****


is that the one where the crowd is counting along with Teddy's moonsaults?


----------



## peep4life

Aj/Kurt Angle Hard Justice- ****1/4
Great match with great storytelling. The ending was sick. Probably TNAs MOTY so far.


----------



## sirdilznik

I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote in the Hard Justice thread because I'm lazy like that 

*Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - Last Man Standing - ****3/4* -
Why didn't they just call this a Texas Death Match if they were going to use
those rules and avoid confusion? I mean I don't mind since I prefer the
Texas Death Match rules. Anyway it doesn't matter and it in no way
detracted from what was an absolute classic. This match was absolutely
incredible from start to finish. Watching this on a shitty stream the
first time didn't do it justice. It told a great story as Kurt used the
crap he's been getting from doubters and naysayers for years to prove
them all wrong time and time again with amazing feats of skill,
athleticism, and straight up craziness. AJ showed the anger that had
been boiling over inside him from the accusations and countless brutal
sneak attacks he has endured over the last couple months and finally
snapped at the end when he took it way too far. The match featured
nearly flawless execution, good counters, great flow and tempo, and
some seriously sick spots. The ending was a really sickening sight to
see which is appropriate for a blow off match of this magnitude and I
seriously thought Kurt was all done right there for a while. That Top
Rope Super DDT was just ridiculously crazy and dangerous.
*SERIOUS* Match Of The Year Contender.

I'll have to watch both matches back to back but I'm still leaning toward Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle from Lockdown as my MOTY so far because that was such an awesome technical match and was really special in my eyes because of the MMA stuff, but damn Kurt vs. AJ was fucking awesome.


----------



## -Mystery-

Gonna go with **** - ****1/4 for Angle/Styles.


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE top 5:

1. HBK/Flair - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
2. Edge/Taker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
3. HHH/Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
4. MITB IV - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
5. HBK/Jericho - Judgment Day - ****

TNA top 5:

1. Angle/Styles - Hard Justice - ****1/4
2. Angle/Joe - Lockdown - ****1/4
3. Angle/Christian - Against All Odds - ****1/4
4. 12 man tag - Victory Road - ****
5. Angle/Styles - Slammiversary - ****


----------



## Burning Sword

Styles/Angle (Hard Justice)- ****1/2

Great match from these two. Angle is a maniac for taking all these huge bumps, but he is still the man. I still like Angle/Joe from Lockdown more though.


----------



## Bubz

angle vs aj was awesome! kurt is actually insane!


----------



## casper-21

ROH Respect is earned II:

Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens (fight without honor) ****

Nigel McGuinness vs Go Shiozaki ****

Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries ****1/2


----------



## Saint Dick

Just watched Angle/Styles LMS for the second time. What a match. ****1/2.


----------



## peep4life

FIP- Strong/Stevens LMS ****1/2-****1/2
Another great, hard hitting match out of these two. This feud has been incredible and match after match has delivered.


----------



## Sephiroth

peep4life said:


> FIP- Strong/Stevens LMS ****1/2-****1/2
> Another great, hard hitting match out of these two. This feud has been incredible and match after match has delivered.


Really? I've heard **** from one of my CONFIDENTIAL SOURCES. Their "weakest" match to that point he or she said.


----------



## -Mystery-

Glazer gave it ***1/2.

I still got to get through Unfinished Business 2008 before I get to that show. I'm still really looking forward to the match.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> Glazer gave it ***1/2.
> 
> I still got to get through Unfinished Business 2008 before I get to that show. I'm still really looking forward to the match.


Oh...then my CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE changed his mind on it.


----------



## -Mystery-

Sephiroth said:


> Oh...then my CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE changed his mind on it.


Well, he told me that Sunday so he might have changed his mind since then.


----------



## Sephiroth

-Mystery- said:


> Well, he told me that Sunday so he might have changed his mind since then.


He told me **** after just finishing the match. So you're probably right.


----------



## PulseGlazer

I'll rewatch. The stupidly long crowdball immediatley into overkill hurt the fabulous ending.


----------



## Groovemachine

I've just got done watching the Stevens/Strong LMS match, I'm going for **** as well. Good stuff, but I felt it dragged a little in the early portion of the match, and therefore didn't feel as heated as their other encounters.


----------



## KingKicks

*FIP Dangerous Intentions 2008
Last Man Standing*
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****-****1/4

If it wasn't for the crowd brawling at the beginning, then it would of been ****1/4 for me.


----------



## peep4life

I'm with everyone that the crowdbrawling was a little much, but the match once they got back to the ring was great, and the ending was almost perfect. Maybe ****1/2 is too high, but I'll stick with the ****1/4


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

ROH
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson (11/2/07) ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson (11/3/07) ****3/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries (12/29/07) ****3/4
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Davey Richards (12/30/07) ****1/4
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (12/30/07) ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero (12/30/07) ****
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries (1/11) ****
Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson (1/25) ****1/4
El Generico vs. Claudio Castagnoli (1/26) ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Roderick Strong (1/26) ****
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki (2/23) ****1/4
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher (2/23) ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (2/23) *****
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson (3/16) ****1/2
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black (3/16) ****3/4
(Yeah, despite the stale booking, the wrestlers do at least bring it in the ring for ROH.)

FIP
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong (2/16) ****3/4

WWE
Royal Rumble match (1/27) ****
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (3/30) ****
Edge vs. Undertaker (3/30) ****

I haven't watched any Chikara, PWG, TNA, or puro for this year, and the only WWE I've watched post-WM has been Raw.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Just watched Black against Nigel from Take No Prisoners. I give it ****1/4 TOPS. I found it to be a stale (good) match. It most definalttly wasn't bad, it just wasn't phenominal. I also feel that this match did nothing for Tyler's climb to the main event and that he has been better represented in tag matches over the last 8 months. Regardless this is not ****3/4 worthy.


----------



## mateuspfc

*ROH Tag Wars 2008*
Age of the Fall vs. The Motorcity Machineguns

*****3/4*
Burnt out a little bit at the end, but the wrestling, the story and the emotion as a whole here is pretty awesome. I na year full of greatness in the ROH shows, this is probably in the Top 5 in the year for ROH and my personal best tag team MOTY. I haven't seen the MCMG-Briscoes match from the night after yet, but it's hard to think that'll top it. Anyway, the main event from Tag Wars 2008 is a great tag encounter.


----------



## Saint Dick

MCMG/AOTF > MCMG/Briscoes imo.


----------



## Groovemachine

I might need to amend my ratings of those two. The MCMG/Briscoes match was probably a better example of great exhibition-style tag wrestling, with each team attempting to top the other with fancy double team moves, but it was the MCMGC/AOTF match that told a terrific story and had a ton of emotion in it. I guess it depends what your priorities are when watching wrestling, and what you like to get out of it.


----------



## Saint Dick

MCMG/AOTF - Tag Wars - ****3/4
MCMG/Briscoes - Return Engagement - ****1/2


----------



## vivalabrave

The AOTF match would be ahead for me as well but the drawn out ending brought it down a tad for me. Both are at ****1/2 and are #5 and #7 respectively in my MOTYC.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Up For Grabs*
Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong and Davey Richards ******

Great match. I did think What!? when Aries did the heat seeking sunset flip.


----------



## Bubz

aotf/mcmg is better i think, awesome match probably my match of the year


----------



## - Styles -

HIAC Summerslam

Yup it lived up to the hype...

First viewing rating.

*****1/2*


----------



## Taroostyles

Edge/Taker HIAC-****1/4


----------



## STALKER

Taker/Edge HITC - **** 3/4

but i do see myself maybe taking is down to **** 1/2.


----------



## sirdilznik

I give *Taker/Edge HIAC - ****1/2*. Awesome match with some great spots. I loved Taker using Edge's repertoire toward the end.


----------



## Burning Sword

*WWE SummerSlam*

Cena v. Batista- ***3/4-****

Taker vs. Edge (Hell in a Cell)- ****1/4

Both of those matches owned. I'll give them a rewatch later.


----------



## New School Fire

Summerslam:

Taker vs. Edge (HIAC)- ****1/2-3/4, Ill have to watch it again but Im thinking 1/2.
Cena vs. Tista - **** (Actually better than I was expecting.)


----------



## -Mystery-

****3/4 for Edge/Taker. Gonna have to watch again to see if it warrants the full 5.


----------



## Saint Dick

Edge/Taker - ****1/2-****3/4

My new WWE MOTY.


----------



## PulseGlazer

-Mystery- said:


> ****3/4 for Edge/Taker. Gonna have to watch again to see if it warrants the full 5.


Agreed exactly. MOTY so far.

Cena vs. Batista *** 1/4. They went into a finishing sequence 5 minutes in.


----------



## Chiller88

Summerslam:

Batista/Cena: ***1/2 - ***3/4
Taker/Edge: ****1/2 - ****3/4 (My mainstream MOTY atm. I see myself possibly giving it the full 5.)


----------



## M.S.I.I.

Taker giving Edge all the pain that he received from him with the Camera, Conchairto, etc. was a great touch. Edge wasn't as crazy as he was on Smackdown the past couple of weeks, but he was still a great heel in this match. Them going from the transition of "The Undertaker is going to kill Edge" to "Edge might be the one to fear at Summerslam" was great for the build up. They delivered well off of that theme, and put on one of the better HIAC's in a long time.

Great match, but I wouldn't go into classic territory with it.


----------



## T-C

I didn't like the HIAC as much as others. I got what they were going for with the "Edge bringing in his toys to even the odds" but it just diluted the effect of the cell too much for me. It got very indy, for want of a better word, at times as well. It was better than the Mankind/Taker cell which was of the same ilk, but not as good as the Brock/Taker cell which was simple brutality at its best that got the best out of the gimmick.


----------



## Saint Dick

I can't see myself giving Edge/Taker the full 5 but it was a classic for sure. Definitely Edge's best one on one match.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I thought the 1st half of the match was like a TLC inside of the HIAC, instead of an actual HIAC match. Edge spent alot of time outside of the ring and I thought that part of the match sorta dragged. 

Everything that happened outside of the ring/cell was great and very well done, the spot when they were out of the cell was pretty much the best they could do without actually going to the top. 

A really great match tho, I can see why some have it really high.


----------



## New School Fire

I agree in saying HIAC was Taker and Edges' best match of their series. I am still needing to watch it again but its very close to my current MOTY which is HBK vs. Flair. Both are really great. After another viewing it may pass Flair and Shawn.


----------



## Alim

Taker/Edge - *****1/2*
Cena/Batista - ****3/4*


----------



## - Styles -

Top 10 of the Year so far. 

I haven't really watched much outside of WWE or TNA lately but here it is. Still first viewing on HIAC could go up or down. Probably stay the same though as the stream was very good.

*1. Tanaka/Sekimoto BJW 4/28/08 - ****1/2 - ****3/4

2. Aj vs Angle LMS - HJ - ****1/2

3. Joe/Angle - Lockdown - ****1/2

4. Edge vs Taker HIAC - SS - ****1/2

5. Flair/Hbk - WM24 - ****1/2

6. 12 man tag - Victory Road - ****1/2

7. CIMA/D.Kid/Ryo Saito vs. M.Yoshino/Doi/Horiguchi SCOH III - ****1/2

8. Team NOAH vs No remorse Corps - Southern Navigation - ****1/2

9. MCMG vs Briscoes - Return Engagement - ****1/2

10. Stevens vs. Strong: Redefined - ****1/4-****1/2*


----------



## PulseGlazer

Upon Further Review:
Summerslam on August 17, 2008
Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Edge

Edge, a cowardly heel, has been wrestling and tormenting the Undertaker for ages now, costing the Deadman the title and even forcing him into a temporary retirement. The feud began with Edge costing Taker the title in his Hell in a Cell with Batista, by blasting Taker with a video camera. Since, they faced off in numerous gimmick matches, most notably the Tables, Ladders and Chairs match that Edge won to retire the Undertaker, featuring a ton of interference.

Edge is now on his own and thanks to Mick Foley, who Undertaker nearly killed in a Hell in a Cell 10 years ago, has gone from a cowardly opportunist to a wild brawler. This transformation was handled perfectly as Edge destroyed his former allies and took a new attitude into his match with the Undertaker. Background settled, let’s get to the match.

The Undertaker immediately showed his usual level of brutality, but the surprise is Edge. He’s still using opportunism to gain offense, but instead of his usual immediate attempts to win, while using cheap tricks, he’s using clever brawling to set up sequences of weapons attacks. This worked out brilliantly, leading to several great spots, notably an attack from a ladder, with a chair, through a table. In beautiful continuity, Edge even says “I Understand” as he did before putting Foley through a table in the exact same manner. Taker’s back was beat to hell, but naturally, as years of conditioning have taught us, never count out the Deadman. 

Undertaker does the situp into a comeback and beats Edge about, but intelligently, Edge is even ready for this and manages to spear Undertaker through the cage. This is followed by a monitor shot and another spear on top of the announce tables. We’ve been conditioned that it’s really next to impossible to beat the Undertaker, but Edge is laying in the type of beating it would take.

Back in the ring, Edge, like the strike that started the feud, hits The Undertaker with a video camera. That gets two, but is a bad decision as it causes Taker to focus and clear out the cobwebs. Edge goes for a spear and Taker catches him with a chokeslam. Edge, desperate, suddenly reverts to his opportunistic heel persona. He abandons his plan of wearing down the Undertaker with a series of big moves and looks for the knockout blow, cheaply and quickly. A low blow, leads to the impaler for a near fall.

Taker keeps coming and attempting big moves, while Edge stays the opportunist and is a step ahead. Taker tries killing blows, but Edge even kicks out of the Last Ride, before avoiding a Tombstone off the steps onto a chair. Edge gets away and gains control, but his old arrogance is back and he tries for the Old School. Taker will have none of that and chokeslams Edge from the top through two tables. He puts Edge in and claims brutal, sweet revenge. The Undertaker hits Edge with a video camera, gives him a conchairto, and finally a Tombstone for the pin.

The Undertaker defeats Edge (Pin, Tombstone, **** ¾)
Upon rewatch I’ll decide if this is ***** or not. It’s certainly damn close and the best Hell in the Cell since Michaels vs. Undertaker. Edge had an evil plan to take apart the Undertaker’s back and win, using combinations of attacks that were previously successful in his wars against Undertaker. When that assault didn’t work in the fashion Edge wished, as quickly as he wished, Edge reverted to his opportunism to try and grab the victory and get out of the match. Without the constant interference, that didn’t get the victory, but it did lend to Edge some of his old cockiness. That was finally what came back to bite him as the Undertaker took revenge for all the assaults before finally pinning and laying end to this feud in perfect fashion.

Unless something astounding occurs, this is the Match of the Year.

Oh and if you love me, click this - http://pulsewrestling.com/2008/08/1...lysis-and-a-breakdown-for-undertaker-vs-edge/


----------



## Saint Dick

Nice review, AG.

Figured I'd post this here:

*Triple H vs John Cena - Night of Champions 08*

Triple H is the champion coming into this one up against a man he has never beaten one on one in John Cena so not only is Hunter focussed on retaining his title but he's determined to exorcise the demons of WrestleMania 22. Triple H believes in his mind that he's the better technical wrestler, and he is, so just like at Mania 22 he starts the match by out wrestling Cena, smiling as he does it showing his confidence. He throws in a DX crotch chop to let Cena know who the man is as the fans chant 'you can't wrestle' at the challenger. They tie up again and perhaps Cena recognizes that Hunter is indeed the better technician so rather than trying to match The Game hold for hold he counters with his two biggest weapons; power and determination. Cena comes out on top in the exchange and returns the favor with a taunt of his own, evening the early psychological battle.

They decide they've had enough of the feeling out process and Cena gains a brief advantage before he misses a flying shoulder block and rolls to the outside. Hunter goes after him and targets the lower back hoping to negate the power of Cena. Good psychology. HHH has control until he uncharacteristically goes to the top rope and pays for it. Cena gets in some offense and wants the Five Knuckle Shuffle but Trips counters and he looks for the Pedigree but Cena finds a way out and hits a Throwback. After a top rope leg drop Cena wants the Five Knuckle Shuffle again but Triple H has him scouted and hits a high knee. Good pace to the match at this point and the crowd is really getting into it. Hunter goes for the Pedigree looking to end it but Cena reverses and whips HHH hard to the outside.

The Game goes down clutching his knee and sells it superbly. He barely manages to get back into the ring before the count of ten but immediately rolls back outside, knowing he's hurt. It looks like a smart move but Cena doesn't give him a chance to catch his breath as he attacks the injured leg with a chop block. The challenger works over the knee of the champion aggressively showing how much the WWE title means to him and again the psychology is perfect as not only does this soften Triple H up for the STFU, which beat him at WM22, but it puts pressure on the area that Hunter has had problems with in the past. 

Triple H knows that it's crucial that he stays away from the STFU and he fights desperately to avoid it. He manages to battle out of the STFU predicament so Cena reverts to plan B, the FU, but Hunter hits a Pedigree out of nowhere! He's slow to cover because of the injured knee and Cena kicks out! Both men take a while to get to their feet and FU out of nowhere! Cena is still feeling the effects of the Pedigree so he isn't able to cover immediately and when he does The Game gets his shoulder up just before three! They transition into a fist fight and the crowd eats it up as they trade big right hands. Triple H comes out on top but then swings and misses allowing Cena to hit a Proto Bomb. 

Finally, at the third time of asking, Cena connects with the Five Knuckle Shuffle! FU time - no, countered. Pedigree attempt - countered and now for the first time in the contest Cena locks in the STFU! Hunter is in trouble, this made him tap two years ago, but not this time! He struggles out of it and when Cena tries to apply it again Trips slaps on the Crossface! But Cena uses his incredible strength and determination to counter lifting The Game straight into position for the FU! But Triple H isn't having any of it, this match means too much to him, evening the score with Cena and retaining his title mean too much, so he elbows his way out and scores with the Pedigree! It's over after a tremendous finishing sequence.

Fantastic match between two of the biggest stars in the company today. They told a compelling story using great psychology and playing off of their previous encounter. Great atmosphere, great feel, great match.

*****1/4*​


----------



## vivalabrave

Edge vs. Taker - ****1/4
Cena vs. Big Dave - ***3/4

Loved the hype vid for Cena/Batista btw.


----------



## DRodri90

Cena vs Batista - ***1/4 
They were for finishing sequences too early and the match was short

Taker vs Edge - ****
Excellent match, but the finish sucked IMO, it was obvious that Taker was gonna win but I didn't like the way he won


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Battle For Supremacy*

Bryan Danielson vs. Erick Stevens ****
-WAY better then their match at Transform

Chris Hero vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4
-Hard hitting greatness


----------



## -Mystery-

*Edge vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell)*

For 15 months Edge and Taker have been doing battle. It all started on May 8th, 2007 when Edge cashed in Money in the Bank on then champion Undertaker after Taker had just wrestled Batista inside a steel cage. Edge cashed in and won the World Heavyweight Championship. Both men would go onto suffer injuries which would put them on the shelf but the feud was rekindled at Survivor Series 2007 when Edge made his shocking return oddly enough inside a Hell in a Cell where he once again cost Taker the World Heavyweight Championship. Edge would later go onto re-capture the World Heavyweight Championship and Taker would go onto win an Elimination Chamber match to become the number on contender.

The stage was set, it was going to be Edge vs. Undertaker for the first time ever for the World Heavyweight Championship at Wrestlemania 24. Taker would come out the victor in the match and then the subsequent re-match at Backlash but would later be stripped of the title after using a banned hold (the gogoplata) . However, the feud took a drastic turn at One Night Stand when the elements of tables, ladders, and chairs were introduced and Taker's WWE career was put on the line. Edge with help from La Familia would once again regain the World Heavyweight Championship and Taker's career as we know it was over. However, hell hath no fury like a women scorned. After it was discovered that Edge cheated on Vickie Guerrero, Vickie went ahead and reinstated the Undertaker and set up Hell in a Cell at Summerslam between the two. Edge then began a transformation over the next few weeks becoming a different man than the man who started this feud 15 months prior. The time was now and the match was upon us. 

Edge stepped into the Cell with no fear at all. When Taker walked into the Cell, Edge did nothing but smile. I believe for the first time ever, someone was actually happy to be inside the Cell with the Undertaker. The match started off perfectly with Taker asserting his dominance and taking Edge to the outside and introducing him to the Cell walls, showing Edge that this is his domain and that it was finally time for him to pay for his sins. However, in a move of brilliant psychology Edge pulls out tables, ladders, and chairs. I've seen some people knock this but it was sheer brilliance because the Cell is Taker's domain while TLC is Edge's specialty and he does hold a TLC win over Taker. So, why not introduce those elements into the match to level the playing field so to speak? Absolutely brilliant psychology. I loved the deja vu spot with Taker on the table and Edge on the ladder with the chair saying "I understand" much like he did to Foley. 

Awesome spot with Edge running then leaping off the stairs to spear Taker through the Cell wall. The action while on the outside was great as well. Brutal monitor shots followed up with another "holy shit" moment when Edge ran across two tables to spear Taker through the third. The match really picked up big time on the outside and was pretty much the climax of the match so naturally it was time to head back into the ring and head towards the finish. 

In yet another deja vu spot, Edge reaches under the ring and pulls out a video camera similar to the one he used back at Survivor Series and uses it on Taker, great stuff. Then, both men begin to look for the finish. Taker goes for the chokeslam but isn't able to finish Edge, Edge goes for the Edgecution but he isn't able to finish, Taker hits the Last Ride but yet again isn't able to close, and finally Edge his the spear but can't pin Taker. The match appeared at this point to be up in the air but Edge's arrogance was all Taker needed to finish the match and Edge once and for all.

Edge went to attempt Old School but Taker was able to block the attempt and crotch Edge on the top turnbuckle. Taker would then go to chokeslam through two tables stacked on each other on the outside. The match was over there, no way Edge would be kicking out. However, this was now Taker's opportunity to make Edge fully pay for everything he inflicted on him throughout the 15 months. Taker started by spearing Edge, then followed that up with a video camera shot, and then finally finished Edge off with his patented con chairto. Taker then tombstoned Edge for the three count. Absolutely fantastic finish. 

Epic can't begin to describe this match. This is how big time feuds need to come to a conclusion. The psychology was excellent, as was the storytelling. The match had the brutality which all Cell matches should have. One thing a lot have groaned about is the lack of blood. While blood would've been great, the match didn't need blood. To penalize a match due to lack of blood is a silly thing in my view. I've absolutely adored the series between these two and this was indeed the perfect way to close the feud which is why the match is getting the rating it is getting, match of the year. Overall *****​


----------



## Taroostyles

Great review, I don't have it as high but it was a really great match.


----------



## - Styles -

Great reviews, I agree with the blood comment. I saw lots of people bitching about the lack of it. And while it could've ONLY helped it doesn't warrant lowering the rating for it.

I saw it again still sticking with ****1/2. Great but not one of the greatest matches I've ever seen that's for sure. I still would say though that it's WWE MOTY so far.


----------



## -Mystery-

I point out Styles/Angle from HJ for a reference point in terms of a hot feud not needing blood.


----------



## - Styles -

What'd you think of the aftermatch stuff? (I never take what happens after the 3 count into the ratings but just wondering.)I always love the falling through the ring spot, but I think the fire was a bit much and it came off a little corny.


----------



## Hound89

oh come on its the undertaker, when is he not aloud to use fire?


----------



## -Mystery-

- Styles - said:


> What'd you think of the aftermatch stuff? (I never take what happens after the 3 count into the ratings but just wondering.)I always love the falling through the ring spot, but I think the fire was a bit much and it came off a little corny.


I'm taking the wait and see approach because if Edge returns in a week or two, then yes it was a bit much but if he takes a few month break then it was a fitting way to write him off.


----------



## -GP-

I must say i wasn't as impressed with the Cell as the others.

Truth is i'm not that big on the whole "i'll punch you, now sit tight while i set up the things to crash through" style, which is probably why i prefer their WrestleMania match over both this and their TLC match.

Don't get me wrong, great match, story was uterly brilliant, at least 4+1/4 snowflakes, maybe more, but i'm just not a huge fan of this sort of matches...


----------



## - Styles -

GP_Punk said:


> I must say i wasn't as impressed with the Cell as the others.
> 
> Truth is i'm not that big on the whole "i'll punch you, now sit tight while i set up the things to crash through" style, which is probably why i prefer their WrestleMania match over both this and their TLC match.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, great match, story was uterly brilliant, at least 4+1/4 snowflakes, maybe more, but i'm just not a huge fan of this sort of matches...


Snowflakes are awesome 

Agree it was a bit of a spotfest but a great spotfest (I love these types matches btw) that didn't abandon the story or history of the feud/past matches.


----------



## -GP-

- Styles - said:


> Agree it was a bit of a spotfest but a great spotfest (I love these types matches btw) that didn't abandon the story or history of the feud/past matches.


To be honest it wasn't a spotfest at all. They did spots, but they had logic and story behind them.


----------



## T-C

All the spots were done for a reason, but the way they were set up was very indy to me.


----------



## JD13

My personal favourite so far this year is still Flair/HBK from mania. The emotion in that match was overwhelming. That said i havent watched any ROH since SOH3, so i have alot of stuff i need to see.


----------



## IC

*Edge vs The Undertaker | Hell In A Cell | Summerslam 2008

*It's first worth observing that the build-up to this match has been absolutely impeccable. The brilliant conclusion to what I believe had been a waning storyline between Undertaker's departure and his reinstatement. The writers did well to recognise the psychological mismatch between the Edge of the last couple of months and the Undertaker. Edge's enthralling personality change set up the match perfectly. As the opening bell rang, Edge had a look of relishment on his face, contrasted by Taker's traditional angry stoicism. This was a match Edge believed he could win, but The Undertaker knew he would.

Edge goes right after Taker and starts by using speed and confidence to get in some early blows. But of course the well-rested Undertaker will gain the upper hand and start dominating him, not with moves, but by lashing him into the cell. In an ordinary match, Taker might be looking to hit Old School or another of his trademarks, but instead he just starts powering Edge's spine into the steel, and smashing up his head. Taker's dominance is appropriately effortless, as they are wrestling in *his *match. 

As would set a trend for much of the match, Undertaker risks losing his dominance in order to really brutalise Edge, setting up steel steps in the corner for Snake Eyes. Edge quickly gains the upper hand by driving Taker into the steps. Something I noticed that put this match over other hardcore matches, in order to set up the two tables for the big spot - Taker didn't just lie down, it's not in his character. Edge didn't just leave him, it's not in _his _character. Edge took his time setting up the two tables, going back into the ring in order to reassert his position of dominance. Again, Edge almost lost control of the match by going for something overly brutal, but was fortunately quick enough to counter. It's also important to notice that, after finding himself at Taker's mercy when the cell was being brought into play, he decided to even the score, physically and psychologically with tables, ladders and chairs. Like when he cut the promo with Foley, Edge was surrounding himself with the weapons he specialised in. Edge smashed him twice with a chair, but didn't go for a pin. He knew his opponent well enough to know it would take more to keep him down for three. At this point I noticed how much effort and emotion was put into their sporadic interchanges at this time. Edge was hitting him relentlessly, mercilessly and yet The Undertaker kept getting up, to the point where Edge had to take a rest on the steps. 

Lovely parallel as Edge put Taker through the table with Edge saying "I understand" again. It put over his reinforced persona in this match. Only then is Edge seemingly ready to finish the match, which he looks to do with a Conchairto rather than a spear - he goes for the more calculated move, rather than the opportunistic spear. Taker shows his ability to absorb anything Edge hits him with, and knocks Edge to the ground. Taker goes back to work, with blunt, heavy attacks that target Edge's head and torso. This is followed by a reversal which allows Edge to hit an awesome spot through the cell. After letting Undertaker get the upper hand again, Edge was even more willing to absolutely put his body on the line for a victory. And yet Undertaker came out of it fighting. Edge was smarter, setting up an opportunity to hurt Taker, but he was too strong to go down from it. 

Undertaker tries to dominate again, but Edge sees another opportunity and takes it. Then he hits a phenomenal spear, getting desperate and needing a finish to the match. Again, Undertaker attacks first, it's as if destroying the Undertaker will take more than Edge can afford to lose. Edge goes back to the ladder, his safety zone. In another parallel, Edge lays Taker out with a camera, leading to a very suspenseful pin. When he feels he may not have it in him to beat Taker, Edge reverts to his "ultimate opportunist" character, which is where Taker will ultimately get him. 

At this stage, they keep going for their moves. Undertaker kicks out of an Impaler. Undertaker kicks out of a Spear. Edge kicks out of a Last Ride. Edge now shows himself able to match the Undertaker move for move, able to live up to Foley's assessment of him, able to live up to his psychotic persona. For the first time, Undertaker feels he needs more than an ordinary move to put Edge down. He goes for something overly brutal and it costs him. What costs Edge is his arrogance, attempting Undertaker's Old School only to get Chokeslammed through the two tables he set up himself. Fittingly, the heel truly gets his comeuppance. But fittingly to the story, Undertaker wanted to make Edge pay for each of his sins, with a camera shot, conchairto and finally a Tombstone. Furthermore, the moment Edge starts to stir, even after the 3 count the punishment still hasn't finished.

To conclude, this was an excellent end to an epic feud. The two wrestlers told a superb story, both sold very well, the match had plenty of suspense, fitted the build-up, great spots. Neither wrestler put a foot wrong throughout. One might have asked for a "holy shit" spot through the cell, or a blade job, but I thought what was there was ultimately far more rewarding than either. I didn't feel the match buried Edge, as he was put over like hell throughout it by the very fact that he was dominating the Undertaker for much of it, without assistance. A superb match that will go down as Edge's best of all time, not to mention one of the best Hell In A Cell matches ever.
*
Overall - ***** - (MOTY)*​


----------



## Saint Dick

- Styles - said:


> What'd you think of the aftermatch stuff? (I never take what happens after the 3 count into the ratings but just wondering.)I always love the falling through the ring spot, but I think the fire was a bit much and it came off a little corny.


I didn't like the aftermath at all but I didn't take it into consideration when rating the match.


----------



## M.S.I.I.

I'm partially amazed that some are going definite classic on it.


----------



## sirdilznik

My current matches of the year (Keep in mind most of my viewing has been WWE and TNA. Besides Dragon Gate my puro has been limited as well as lucha, and I'm way behind on ROH, PWG, FIP, etc...):

*1)* Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe - Six Sides Of Steel - TNA Lockdown - *******
*2)* Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - Last Man Standing - TNA Hard Justice - *****3/4*
*3)* CIMA, Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - *****1/2*
*4)* 12 Man X Cup Elimination Tag - TNA Victory Road - *****1/2*
*5)* Naruki Doi vs. KENTA - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive - *****1/2*
*6)* Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - *****1/2*
*7)* Edge vs. Undertaker - Hell In A Cell - WWE Summerslam - *****1/2*
*8)* Age Of The Fall vs. Motor City Machine Guns - ROH - *****1/2*
*9)* Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP Redefined - *****1/4 - ****1/2*
*10)* RAW Elimination Chamber - WWE No Way Out - *****1/4*

Snowflakes are *SRS BZNS*


----------



## KingKicks

Just finished rewatching Summerslam.

*Hell In A Cell*
The Undertaker vs. Edge

Fantastic story but i'm definitely not as high on it as others.

*****1/4*

It's actually 32nd on my MOTY list lol.


----------



## thepunisherkills

*Edge vs Taker *
***** 1/2* Its no HBK vs Taker but still very good


----------



## TotalNonstopHonor

The Undertaker Vs. Edge (Hell In A Cell, Summerslam 2008)- *****3/4*
John Cena Vs. Batista (Grudge Match, Summerslam 2008)- *****1/2*


----------



## Maxx Hero

I maxxed out my timecard at work and thus I have forced time off because my manager refuses to pay me more. Thus I am starting to watch 2008 stuff and can actually start listing matches. Right now I have only seen a few matches on DVD from this year, but I will add more, I know this list will change as I was at the Orlando weekend but here is what I got for my top six.

1. ****1/2 World X Cup 12 Man
2. ****1/4 Black vs. McGuinness
3. ****1/4 Micheals vs. Flair
4. ****1/4 Briscoes vs. Marufuji & Suigura
5. ****1/4 Danielson vs. Hero
6. **** Danielson vs. Low Ki


----------



## dele

I really don't list a whole lot, I'll just give you my current MOTY:

MEN'S Teioh and Shinobu vs Mashimo and Madoka, BJW

**** 3/4

By the way,

Edge vs Undertaker

**** - **** 1/4

Good match, but the fact there was no blood really hurt it for me. You're telling me that they're going to hit eachother in the heads with the cage, chairs, cameras, and everything else and there's no blood? Edge needed to be busted open by the end to make it seem as though Taker had hit him with everything he had. Also, how does Edge hit Taker with a chair for 2-3 minutes straight and not win?


----------



## PulseGlazer

Edge vs. Taker stays at **** 3/4. The only flaw preventing it from 5* is it leaned almost too much on past continuity to where I don't know how much someone who isn't following current product closely would get out of the story.


----------



## peep4life

Just finished watching Hell in a Cell (I've been in Vegas for a few days, destroying my liver). I'll go with ****1/2-3/4 on this. Not the instant classic or MOTY that others have it as, but it was still awesome. Definitely in my top 10 for this year, and easily my favorite Edge match ever.


----------



## thepunisherkills

peep4life said:


> Just finished watching Hell in a Cell (I've been in Vegas for a few days, destroying my liver). I'll go with ****1/2-3/4 on this. Not the instant classic or MOTY that others have it as, but it was still awesome. Definitely in my top 10 for this year, and easily my favorite Edge match ever.


For some reason my fav Edge match is the one against Foley.


----------



## Saint Dick

*ROH Take No Prisoners*
Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ****1/2


----------



## Word

I have them at ****1/4 & ****3/4.

My WWE MOTY is still Taker/Edge (WM24)


----------



## stinger-splash

WWE MOTY
Flair vs HBK (WM 24) *****

Other rating
Taker vs Edge (WM 24) ****1/4


----------



## Burning Sword

Time for my updated MOTYC List:

*ROH:*

1. Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black- ****1/2
2. Team Work vs. AOTF (Respect is Earned II)- ****1/2
3. Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black (Southern Navigation)- ****1/2
4. Steenerico vs. SpeedMuscle (Dragon Gate Challenge II)- ****1/2
5. AOTF vs. Briscoes (Return Engagement)- ****1/4

*WWE:*

1. Flair vs. Michaels (WM24)- ****1/2
2. Taker vs. Edge (WM24)- ****1/4
3. Triple H vs. Cena (NOC)- ****1/4
4. Edge vs. Taker (Hell in a Cell)- ****1/4
5. Batista vs. Cena (SummerSlam)- ****

*TNA:*

1. Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle (Lockdown)- ****1/2
2. Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles (Hard Justice)- ****1/2
3. Elimination X (Victory Road)- ****1/2
4. Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Destination X)- ****1/4
5. Kurt Angle vs. Christain Cage (Final Resolution)- **** 


I still need to watch Vendetta II, G-1 Climax and the Dragon Gate World show afterwards.


----------



## peep4life

ROH Battle for Supremacy 
Chris Hero vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4


----------



## Saint Dick

*WWE*
1. HBK/Flair - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
2. Edge/Taker - SummerSlam - ****1/2
3. Edge/Taker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
4. HHH/Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
5. MITB IV - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4

*TNA*
1. Angle/Styles - Hard Justice - ****1/2
2. Angle/Joe - Lockdown - ****1/4
3. Angle/Christian - Against All Odds - ****1/4
4. 12 man tag - Victory Road - ****
5. Angle/Styles - Slammiversary - ****

*ROH*
1. McGuinness/Danielson - 6th Anniversary Show - ****3/4
2. MCMG/AOTF - Tag Wars - ****3/4
3. McGuinness/Black - Take No Prisoners - ****1/2
4. MCMG/Briscoes - Return Engagement - ****1/2
5. AOTF/Team Work - Respect Is Earned II - ****1/4


----------



## VenturaPt

My working top 15:

1) Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, WWE Wrestlemania 30/3
2) John Cena vs. Triple H, WWE Night of Champions 29/6
3) Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer, IWA-MS 500th Show 1/3
4) Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson, ROH 6th Anniversary Show 23/2
5) Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black, ROH Take No Prisoners 30/5
6) Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer, IWA-MS April Bloodshowers 12/4
7) Motor City Machine Guns vs. Age Of The Fall, ROH Tag Wars 18/4
8) Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima, NOAH 14/6
9) CM Punk vs. William Regal, WWE Raw 28/7
10) Beth Phoenix vs. Melina, ECW One Night Stand 1/6
11) CM Punk vs. Batista, WWE Great American Bash 20/7
12) The Undertaker vs. Edge, WWE Backlash 27/4
13) Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show, WWE Wrestlemania 30/3
14) The Miz & John Morrison vs. Jimmy Wang Yang & Shannon Moore, ECW 8/1
15) Johnny Saint vs. Mike Quackenbush, WXW 8/3


----------



## HeAT

MOTY so far...

Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles (Last Man Standing Match) - ***** 3/4*


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Vendetta II*

Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****
Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/4


----------



## Blasko

KingCrash said:


> *ROH Vendetta II*
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****


 LIVE REPORTS FTW.


----------



## Sephiroth

KingCrash said:


> *ROH Vendetta II*
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****
> Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/4


Please post your review of the entire show. I feel I might have overrated it in my INCREDIBLY BIASED LIVE REPORT~!



-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> LIVE REPORTS FTW.


You dick. Change your name to "BlaskoIan Rotten" plz


----------



## seabs

*AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - Slammiversary 08*
_****-_

*John Cena vs Batista - Summerslam 2008*
_****_

*Edge vs Undertaker - HIAC - Summerslam 2008*
_****1/4_


----------



## stinger-splash

Almost finished watching HJ.

AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle ****1/2 (near 3/4) (TNA MOTY, tie with LD ME)

Will post my complete HJ review tommorow in TNA DVD thread.


----------



## Tarfu

ROH Vendetta II:

*Nigel McGuinness vs. Jerry Lynn (Non-title)*

I don't know why I loved this match so much. Maybe it was because of Jerry's "the hasbeen underdog" -position and rising out of it during the match. Many near-falls, nonstop tempo and the crowd was just amazing. I'd say, a MOTYC.


----------



## ADN

*ROH Vendetta II*
Jimmy Jacobs vs Austin Aries - ****1/4-****1/2
Jerry Lynn vs Nigel McGuiness - ****-****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ****


----------



## KeepItFresh

Big time bangin' kids.


----------



## Clique

*Undertaker vs. Edge 
SummerSlam:* *HELL IN A CELL*


*“NOW WE GO TO HELL …”* _– The Undertaker_

Finally the over 15 month rivalry between Edge and The Undertaker comes full circle and there is no better way to end a feud in the WWE like Hell in a Cell. We have seen returns, screw jobs, titles won, lost and stripped. Undertaker was banned from the WWE but once Edge and his philandering ways caught up with him, he soon finds out why it isn’t “easy being sleazy.” This was a punishment from his wife and Smackdown G.M. Vickie Guerrero but it may have turned out to be the match to solidify Edge as a legend. 

This main event isn’t about the World Heavyweight Championship; it is about revenge for The Undertaker and Vickie, the fate of Edge and Hell in its purest form. 

The build towards this final chapter has been impeccable. Edge has delivered some of the best wrestling promos of his career and his character transformed into one of the most intriguing heels ever. We have seen some phenomenal wrestling matches and Match of the Year Candidates in 2008 but none of them top this epic main event! 

Now onto the match, the intensity from the start of the match was unlike any of the other encounters Edge and Undertaker had previously. This time both men are ready to begin the match going at it full speed and just build from there. The punches from the Undertaker are very stiff and so are his head butts! Even though Edge tried to fight back with punches of his own, he can’t match up in a fist fight with the Deadman. So Taker dominates by ramming The Rated R Superstar’s back, face and head into the steel cell. 

Next, Undertaker brings in one of Hell in a Cell’s finest weapons that probably plays a role in these matches all of the time – the steel steps. Edge gets blasted hard with the steps to the head and the brutality has already picked up tremendously! 

Undertaker then tried Snake Eyes on the steel steps but Edge sacrificed his kidneys just so he could counter the upcoming big boot. After that move you notice how physical the match is because Edge has a huge red bruise on the area he sacrificed on the steel steps. He followed up with a sweet Spear on the Undertaker into the steel steps. Once Edge made that innovative assault, it was now time to turn this match in his favor.

It was so smart and made a ton of sense psychologically for Edge to implement his “weapons of destruction” – tables, ladders and chairs into the fight. Hell in a Cell is Undertaker’s match, this is his eighth time competing here and Edge’s first. Edge’s best shot at having any type of advantage comes from using what he knows best. As J.R. stated during Edge’s somewhat demented entrance, “Edge didn’t come to just compete, he came to win.” 

Once Edge started swinging chairs and bashing Undertaker clean on the head, he looked ever so dominant. We can see Edge came with a game plan as he franticly pulls a couple of tables and ladders and more chairs from under the ring.

Some people complained Edge took too much time looking under the ring for weapons but I think he set up everything in a fair amount of time. He stacked the tables on the outside as fast as he could and got the other weapons in the ring without too big a gap from my perspective. It really wasn’t that big of an issue. Plus the camera shot of Undertaker trying to recover while weapons surrounded him as Edge looked to get even more weapons to punish him with was a cool site to behold. 

In further execution in storytelling from Edge is the recreation of the T.L.C. spot he did on Mick Foley three weeks earlier. “I understand” are the ominous words said from Edge because he knows what must be done to prove that he is the greatest superstar in WWE. So while Taker is set up on a table, Edge soars off a 15 ft. ladder with a steel chair in hand crashing into him through the table!

That of course wouldn’t finish off the Undertaker and wouldn’t be the only big spot of the match. Not even close. We get our next “Holy Sh*t” moment when both men are on the outside of the ring going at it and Undertaker’s back is towards the cell. Edge then sets up the stairs and sprints across them to tackle Undertaker through the cell! 

When I was watching this match live I literally jumped out of my seat when the cage broke. Undertaker was bleeding from the forearm and the intensity of the match kicks into yet another gear because now the Hell is outside of the Cell. I started thinking – they’re going to the top of the cell. Well they didn’t do a big spot from the top of the cell which is too big by the way but they made up for it with another innovative spot. 

After some vicious shots by Edge with the announce table monitors, he then Spears the Undertaker from one announce table through the next! That was the spot of the night for me. I jumped up again! I don’t care if I sound too markish for some who are reading because I loved the action and story of the match and enjoyed everything both men had to offer. 

Once they got back into the ring, Edge tried to put Undertaker away by hitting him in the head with a production camera like he did at Survivor Series when he screwed him out of the World title in HIAC; again back to great storytelling playing on their past. Still that wasn’t enough to win the match and Edge tried to finish Taker with his signature Impaler DDT and then the Spear but Undertaker would not stay down!

At this point I feel the end is almost near and I noticed no one has bladed. I’ll admit I was little bothered there was no blood in HIAC but it became an afterthought on further watches because I understand the story and bruises/cuts made from the actual physicality of the match is enough. 

With the end being near, Edge made the mistake in trying to one-up The Phenom by doing Old School/Walk the Ropes which get’s turned on him with a Chokeslam from the top rope through the two stacked tables he set up earlier!

What comes next is probably a flawlessly fitting ending to this epic match. Undertaker gives Edge a taste of his own repertoire – The Spear. He then follows that with breaking the production camera over Edge’s head! But Edge hasn't paid enough so Taker gives him a Con-Chair-Toe followed by the Tombstone Piledriver! The final chapter in this awesome rivalry comes to a classic end.

I can’t say I saw what happened after the match coming with Undertaker sending Edge straight to Hell! Again, the ending was perfect with Edge paying for his sins and Undertaker returning with a vengeance. 

This match is just another great addition to both men’s legacies especially for Edge who performed so well may have proven what Foley said to be true. That he is the “greatest superstar in WWE.” 


***** 3/4 – Match Of The Year*​


----------



## Word

Ergh, I think that HIAC is getting terribly overrated. Esepcially when people shout *****.


----------



## dele

Same here. It was **** 1/4 at best.


----------



## Clique

Edge/Taker series has been epic this year!


----------



## stinger-splash

My MOTY Top 10

1) Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania) *****
2) Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle (Lockdown) ****1/2
3) AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle (Hard Justice) ****1/2
4) Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage (Against All Odds) ****1/4 - ****1/2
5) Edge vs Undertaker (Summerslam) ****1/4
6) 12-man Ellimination Tag (Victory Road) ****1/4
7) Edge vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania) ****1/4
9) MITB IV (Wrestlemania) ****1/4
8) Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage (Final Resolution) ****1/4
10) AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle (Slammiversary) **** - ****1/4


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Respect Is Earned II
Jay Briscoe vs. Necro Butcher (Philadelphia Street Fight)* ***3/4-****

Very violent match. Better then their match from Undeniable.

*ROH Vendetta II

Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson* ****

*Nigel McGuiness vs. Jerry Lynn* ****

*Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs* ****1/2


----------



## casper-21

NJPW 08.07.08 - IWGP Jr.Hw. Tournament Final:

Prince Devitt vs Tiger Mask IV ****

Probably best 10 minutes match of the year.


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH - Battle For Supremacy*
Chris Hero vs Roderick Strong - ****1/4

*PWG - DDT4 2008 Night 2*
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Jack Evans & Roderick Strong - ****1/4


----------



## Superkick_Kid

I give Edge vs Taker ***3/4

While it had some awesome spots, but it really didn't seem that great to me. I thought Cena vs Batista was better.

I've gone back and watched it about 4 times and still I don't see it.

The way you can tell there were too many weapons spots was the lack of heat in between spots. In fact, considering the build, the match suffered for a lack of heat from a very good crowd. One of the most heated spots was when they were just doing classic pro-wrestling, Undertaker countering Edge and hitting him with something (a chokeslam, I think). There was significantly more heat for Batista-Cena, which was much more basic.

I understood why the weapons were there but the way in which they were used was out of sync. You had the key spot from the build up that Edge hit on Foley used far too early and it was irrelevant as Taker was back on offence shortly afterwards. Now, Taker's gimmick is that he's invincible so lots of leeway should be given but that spot was really important and just bypassed. They were using weapons too early and indiscriminately. Psychologically, the match failed in that aspect. It was a good match with some other details that really worked. Such as Taker reusing all of Edge's moves and things he inflicted on him. That worked very well and so did the spear through the cage and through the announcers table.

Another thing about it was I wasn't feeling Edge at his best. The matches that really made me a big fan of Edge was his matches with Foley at WM 22 and his tag match at ONS. Edge really showed personality in those matches. In this, it felt like they had so much to get in that the only person who really showed any personality was Taker and that was towards the end.


----------



## -Mystery-

The weapon spots were fine especially the Foley spot given the way the match played out. The only real time they could have done it was between the beginning of the match and before the spear spot through the Cell. Also, weapons weren't being used too early because that was the entire psychology of the match, Edge bringing in the TLC element to negate Taker's advantage inside the Cell.

There has been one argument that has made me re-think my 5 star rating which was Glazer's but to hell with the casual fans.


----------



## Word

People moan about them not going to the top of the cell. Its 16 foot high now, which is larger than it was in the past. Doing a spot up there would do considerable damage and is very risky.


----------



## Superkick_Kid

-Mystery- said:


> The weapon spots were fine especially the Foley spot given the way the match played out.


So, Edge making the cover after and the crowd not giving a shit about it worked?


----------



## Clique

That crowd was kind of dead tbh. They could have been hotter for all the matches. 

As for reviewers, some caught the storytelling and psychology of the match and others didn't.


----------



## -Mystery-

Superkick_Kid said:


> So, Edge making the cover after and the crowd not giving a shit about it worked?


What did you expect Edge to do? Not cover Taker? He just landed a damaging blow so logic says try to pin him and get the win. Also, when would you have wanted the spot to happen? Based on the way the match played out, during that period of time was the only time they could have done the spot because after they got back in the Cell it was time to head home for the finish.

By the way, the crowd was fucking dead all night and frankly, I could give two shits if the crowd is alive. What matters if you're excited for the match and popping for the spots.


----------



## Burning Sword

*ROH Vendetta II:*

Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ****
Nigel McGuiness vs. Jerry Lynn- ***3/4
Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ****


----------



## volcanic

slightly updated list:

(ROH) McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 3/4
(ROH) CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2
(NOAH) Misawa vs. Morishima - 03/02/08 - **** 1/2
(WWE) Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - **** 1/2
(BJW) Masato Tanaka vs. Sekimoto - 04/28/08 - **** 1/2
(NOAH) Kensuke Office vs. Kobashi & KENTA 06/14/08 **** 1/2
(ROH) McGuiness vs. Black - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
(NOAH) KENTA, Ishimori, Saito vs. The Briscoes, Chris Hero - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
(FIP) Stevens vs. Strong - Redefined - **** 1/4
(ROH) Stevens vs. Strong - Respect is Earned II - **** 1/4
(ROH) Aries, Danielson vs. Age of the Fall - Respect is Earned II - **** 1/4
(NOAH) Marufuji, Sugiura, Morishima vs Kobashi, Honda, Taniguchi - Second Navigation 02/21/08 - **** 1/4
(OFFICE) KENTA vs. Nakajima - 06/13/08 - **** 1/4
(NOAH) KENTA vs. Sasaki - 07/17/08 - **** 1/4
(ROH) Aries vs. Danielson - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4
(ROH) Danielson vs. Black - Southern Navigation - **** 1/4
(DG) BxB Hulk, Shingo vs. KENTA, Ishimori - The Gate of Generation - 03/20/08 - ****
(ROH) McGuinness vs. Shiozaki - Respect is Earned II - ****
(ROH) Speed Muscle vs. Steen-erico - Dragon Gate Challenge - ****
(WWE) Edge vs. The Undertaker - One Night Stand - ****
(ROH) BxB Hulk, Shingo vs. Steen-erico - Supercard of Honor III - ****
(DG) KENTA vs. Doi - Dead or Alive - 05/05/08 - ****
(ROH) - McGuiness vs. Morishima - Undeniable - ****
(ROH) Stevens vs. Strong - Supercard of Honor III - ****
(SHIMMER) Sarah Del Ray vs. MsChief - Vol. 18 - ****
(AJPW) Styles vs. Tanahashi - 02/17/08 - *** 3/4
(AJPW) Tanahashi, Mutoh vs Kawada, Kea - 03/01/08 - *** 3/4


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

I'm sorry if all you people try to kill me and then try to vet myself but i think Nigel McGuiness vs Adam Pearce from RoH - Battle for Supremacy can get ***3/4. Tremendous ring psicology of both wrestlers, also the old-school heel work of Adam and the momentarly face turn of Nigel, even mocking Danielson with "I've got till five, referee" and remarking that he's the top-heel of the company. 

Awesome watching Sweet & Sour manipulating both RoH & NWA Presidents and fun to watch Pearce cheating again.
Two of the best independents heavyweight wrestlers face to face with the NWA World Title on the line. I had a very good time by watching that match.

I agree with KingCrash in Hero vs Strong from Battle for Supremacy was awesome. Hard Knock Out Kid vs Hard Turned Chopper face to face. The reborn of Hero against the self-loyalty of Roderick. Tremendous (if you let me) stiff psicology. ****1/4.


----------



## straightedge015

The Clique87 said:


> That crowd was kind of dead tbh. They could have been hotter for all the matches.


They were really hot for Cena/Batista. And Khali/Triple H + JBL/Punk to a lesser extent.


----------



## Don Frye

For me:

WWE - Edge vs CM Punk (Smackdown)
TNA - Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe (Lockdown)
Other - Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW)


----------



## casper-21

NOAH 01.06.08 - GHC junior tag title match:

KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Ricky Marvin & Kotaro Suzuki ****1/4


----------



## Goku

Don Frye said:


> For me:
> 
> WWE - Edge vs CM Punk (Smackdown)
> TNA - Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe (Lockdown)
> Other - Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW)


Seriously? Edge|Punk ?

WWE - Flair|HBK
TNA - AJ|Angle (HJ)
Haven't seen a lot of ROH or puro from this year particularly, Danielson|Nigel was good though


----------



## stinger-splash

WWE: HBK vs Flair
TNA: Joe/Angle and Angle/AJ
Haven't watch any ROH, absolutely no time.


----------



## PulseGlazer

WWE: Edge Taker- HIAC- **** 3/4
TNA: Angle Cage - **** 1/4
ROH: Either Nigel vs. Aries SCOH 2 **** 1/2 or MCMG vs. Briscoes 2 **** 1/2


----------



## - Styles -

*WWE: HIAC - ****1/2
TNA: LMS - AJ vs Kurt - ****1/2
Other: Tanaka vs Sekimoto BJW 4/28 - ****1/2 - ****3/4*


----------



## KingKicks

WWE: Flair/HBK - ****1/2
TNA: LMS - AJ/Kurt - ****1/2
Other: Strong/Stevens (FIP) - ****3/4


----------



## T-C

Just watched Show/Mayweather again. Really, really fun. One of the most enjoyable matches I've watched this year.


----------



## -GP-

"He can't be doin' that, ref! He can't be doin' that!"

extra star on the rating for the manager plz.


----------



## stinger-splash

T-C said:


> Just watched Show/Mayweather again. Really, really fun. One of the most enjoyable matches I've watched this year.


Really? **1/4 for me. Nothing special.


----------



## Platt

WWE: Edge/Taker (WM) ****1/2
TNA: Joe/Angle (Lockdown) ****1/4 (not seen any of the Angle/AJ ppv matches yet)
ROH: Nigel/Aries (SCOH II) ****1/2 (only up to tag wars)
Other: BJ/Jimmy (IWA:MS Barbed Wire) ****1/2


----------



## T-C

stinger-splash said:


> Really? **1/4 for me. Nothing special.


Yea that shit was put together brilliantly. Big Show proved thath he is one of the top guys of his generation and it and Mayweather was brilliant.

It was also the match, behind Flair/Michaels, that the fans cared most about, which means says a lot that they managed to keep the fans with them throughout. My second favourite match on the card and your rating looks ridiculous to me.


----------



## Goku

I have Floyd|Show at ***3/4* and HBK|Flair at *******. WrestleMania had MITB, Edge|Taker and Randy|Cena|Trips that were much better than Floyd|Show

Joe|Angle - ****1/4*, I don't understand fixed shootfighting


----------



## Groovemachine

8/23 NOAH NTV cup
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Bryan Danielson & Davey Richards - ***3/4

-Some really great sections of the match, but it wasn't all that consistent and didn't really kick into a higher gear. Still, Danielson & Richards looked great as a team with some nice double-team manoeuvres, so I'm eager to see more of them in the tournament.


----------



## casper-21

Dragon GatePro Wrestling Festival in Kobe 

Open the Triangle Gate 4 Way 6 Man: YAMATO, Yasushi Kanda, Gamma vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Naoki Tanisaki vs. Dragon Kid, Anthony W. Mori, PAC vs. Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fujii, Magnitude Kishiwada ****

Open the Dream Gate: Shingo Takagi vs. BxB Hulk ****1/4


----------



## Clique

*"The Biggest Blockbuster of The Summer"
Batista vs. John Cena*​So here it is WWE fans, the two biggest superstars in WWE today facing off for the first time ever in a one-on-one match. And what an explosive match it was. 

The pace was accelerated from start to finish and both men seemed as if they didn't have a slow gear. At first when I watched the match live I thought the finishing sequences in the first five minutes were a bit off but on further watches I can appreciate how different this match is from your standard power house/brawler type match. 

Batista used the Figure Four Leg Lock on Cena early in the match which played on the point Cena brought up previously and that is Batista had the luxury of learning from the best in Ric Flair and Triple H. Batista definitely showed that he learned well as he attacked the legs of the quicker opponent.

I'm so happy Cena remembered to sell the leg injury this time and he sold it well. Batista's attack wouldn't last that long anyway as Cena also tried turning the tables on him as well by snapping Big Dave's leg.

After both men realized taking out the leg deal wasn’t going to cut it they brought out the big guns in full force. We saw the Spine buster from Batista and the Five Knuckle Shuffle sequence from Cena.

The crowd was absolutely split down the middle for each man as they ate up every move Batista and Cena performed.

I will have to say both men delivered two of the coolest counters I have seen in a good while. Cena used all of his strength for an amazing F-U on Batista. But it was Cena that went to the top rope gunning for a leg drop that Batista turned into the Batista Bomb!!!

According to WWE that move cause an injury to Cena’s neck which required surgery. Batista would further punish Cena with a straight kick to the head and another Batista Bomb for the victory!

Batista was as intense as ever and both men really put a lot into a hot match that left you wanting more. Also let's not underplay the magnitude of Cena losing clean to Big Dave on such a large PPV because this victory is one of the biggest in The Animal's career.

People said this big time WrestleMania type feud has been ruined because they’ve already faced each other. Well I say these two have some unfinished business and now they have history to build something even better for a bigger stage. I will be waiting to see more confrontations between these two Superstars.

**** 3/4*​


----------



## PulseGlazer

Show Mayweather was an intelligently put together spectacle. It's not a MOTYC but it sure was fun and way better than it had any business being.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

So...I haven't watched or followed wrestling in about two months (schedule kicking my ass and all)

What have I missed that's worth watching?


----------



## dele

BJW 7/13 Yokohama Cultural Gymnasium

BJW Championship: 
"Summer in Yokohama": Light tubes, Cage Tower, and Super Hot Sauce Death Match
Shadow WX (c) vs Jun Kasai
Had some cool parts, especially with Jun trying to be more insane than WX along with WX pouring two bottles of hot sauce all over Jun's back, but overall a rather disappointing match given how awesome Jun's return match was and how much this match had been built up.
***

BJW Tag Championship Match
Mashimo Ginko and Madoka (c) vs Daisuke Sekimoto and Mammoth Sasaki

A pretty damn good match, and Mashimo is one of those guys who is going to have a pretty damn awesome next year or two. He's so talented. Daisuke and Mammoth have great chemistry as a team and used their strength to pull off some really cool spots (Daisuke puts Mashimo in a torture rack and Mammoth germans them both!!)

****-****1/4

isami BJW Return Match - Barbed Wire Boards and Ladder Deathmatch
Ryuji Ito and isami vs Yuko Miyamoto and Takashi Sasaki
Match of the night, not much else to say...
****1/4


----------



## dragonkid

*The 2008 Match of the year *
*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels- Unforgiven*


----------



## apocynthian

sucks that michaels tore his right tricep.


----------



## Groovemachine

*IWA:MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs [No Rope Barbed Wire match] - ****1/2*

Holy mother of God, do these two simply not give a shit about their own bodies? I think they went out there with the sole aim of TRYING to kill themselves! A very well structured match, Jacobs outshone Whitmer by quite a bit I felt, with some tremendous selling. And as for seeing the barbs literally fish-hooked inside Jacobs' skin....yeowch! An awesome, brutal affair from these two, and I definitely need to get my hands on their I Quit match from the 500th Show.


----------



## casper-21

CMLL INFIERNO EN EL RING:

Héctor Garza, La Máscara e Hijo del Fantasma vs Místico, Blue Panther y Dos Caras Jr ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

> IWA:MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs [No Rope Barbed Wire match] - ****1/2
> 
> Holy mother of God, do these two simply not give a shit about their own bodies? I think they went out there with the sole aim of TRYING to kill themselves! A very well structured match, Jacobs outshone Whitmer by quite a bit I felt, with some tremendous selling. And as for seeing the barbs literally fish-hooked inside Jacobs' skin....yeowch! An awesome, brutal affair from these two, and I definitely need to get my hands on their I Quit match from the 500th Show.


great match, but the i quit match is even better!


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki, ****1/2, All Star Weekend VI Night 1, the best PWG match along with Ki vs. Davey. Excellent psychology with all kinds of tremendous mat work. My only complaint is that it's so great that it burned me out for the rest of the show.


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

KENTA vs Katsuhiko Nakajima, from NOAH [Jun-13-08]
Excelent stiff work by both wrestlers who gave all to make a great match and also perfect psychology by both competitors.
This wasn't a pure matt-wrestling match, and even with that it was awesome to watch. Maybe the end of the match wasn't all the espectacular i hoped by even with that, i give it a ****1/4 rating. 
Wrestling can make us make some noise even not being pure. Wrestling is all real we want ^^



superdupersonic said:


> Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki, ****1/2, All Star Weekend VI Night 1, the best PWG match along with Ki vs. Davey. Excellent psychology with all kinds of tremendous mat work. My only complaint is that it's so great that it burned me out for the rest of the show.


If i'm not wrong, was that the opener? That got to be the Main Event.


----------



## Sephiroth

Robert-Kenflin said:


> If i'm not wrong, was that the opener? That got to be the Main Event.


That was the opener, actually. Hero/Larae/Necro vs. Tornado/Claudio/Kingston was the main.


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

Sephiroth said:


> That was the opener, actually. Hero/Larae/Necro vs. Tornado/Claudio/Kingston was the main.


Continuing with the offtopic, i don't even know why Necro is still appearing in both RoH/PWG promotions.
Hero said one day after KoE Cup (i was on there lmao) "if the crowd likes you, you always will be scheduled to appear on there... we're indy people and we live for the indy wrestling".

Chris is Awesome.


----------



## Sephiroth

Robert-Kenflin said:


> Continuing with the offtopic, i don't even know why Necro is still appearing in both RoH/PWG promotions.
> Hero said one day after KoE Cup (i was on there lmao) "if the crowd likes you, you always will be scheduled to appear on there... we're indy people and we live for the indy wrestling".
> 
> Chris is Awesome.


ROH: Gabe has a role for him in the current AOTF storyline. If nothing else, he caters to a certain niche in the ROH fandom. He is popular, don't forget that.

PWG: Necro, Hero, and Claudio are all good friends with the PWG Six. Why wouldn't they offer them a paycheck? Especially when Necro is very over with the fans.


----------



## antoniomare007

Robert-Kenflin said:


> KENTA vs Katsuhiko Nakajima, from NOAH [Jun-13-08]
> Excelent stiff work by both wrestlers who gave all to make a great match and also perfect psychology by both competitors.
> This wasn't a pure matt-wrestling match, and even with that it was awesome to watch. Maybe the end of the match wasn't all the espectacular i hoped by even with that, i give it a ****1/4 rating.


is that the Kensuke Office Show (the one with with Marufuji vs Sasaki)??

if so, that's a great match, and i actually enjoyed the final sequence


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

Yes, that was Kensufe Office Show (nice in-ring looking).



Sephiroth said:


> ROH: Gabe has a role for him in the current AOTF storyline. If nothing else, he caters to a certain niche in the ROH fandom. He is popular, don't forget that.
> 
> PWG: Necro, Hero, and Claudio are all good friends with the PWG Six. Why wouldn't they offer them a paycheck? Especially when Necro is very over with the fans


Yes, i know the relationship between Necro and ROH/PWG owners. That's the problem when you're a matt-wrestling fan and sometimes try to enjoy Necro but... i liked him in CZW more than in ROH/PWG.
Even with that, Necro is 100% charisma and yes, he's over.
The feud with both Aries & Jimmy is going mad.


----------



## seabs

*FIP Redefined: Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - FIP World Championship*
_****1/2 

*AWESOME! My MOTY atm.*_


----------



## McQueen

Strong/Stevens has been my MOTY all year. Then again i'm way behind on current shit.


----------



## KingKicks

Seabs said:


> *FIP Redefined: Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - FIP World Championship*
> _****1/2
> 
> *AWESOME! My MOTY atm.*_


I've watched it like 4 times and still love it so much. My MOTY aswell but i've got it at ****3/4.


----------



## seabs

*I was tempted to give it higher than ****1/2 but went against it in the end.


Spoiler: Strong/Stevens



I dont like count out victories


 Might go higher on another watch though. Trying to work my way through ROH 08 stuff from now on. *


----------



## McQueen

I thought that was a great way to end the match given it was Strong himself who instituted that rule in the first place when he first won the title. It also showed that Strong wasn't sure he had what it takes to beat Stevens one on one, great heel psychology.


----------



## Blasko

Hero/AmDrag is still my MOTY.


----------



## -GP-

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> Hero/AmDrag is still my MOTY.


I'm thinking about that too. 
There's some stuff from Japan that may beat it, but indy-wise, i think it may have it up to now...


----------



## Maxx Hero

Are you talking about the match in WXW? I only gave that ****1/4. The crowd was the best I have ever seen and the commentary was ledgendary, but the match was not as good as other indy stuff this year. Definatly the best Hero match this year though.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I'm so fucking behind on 2008 shit. With that said, I don't know if I'll enjoy anything as much as Nigel/Tyler from... whatever ROH PPV that was. I tried to catch up on 2008 ROH last week, but I already had enough after watching Davey/Kota. Still haven't seen Strong/Stevens from Redefined. Or any puro past March. Or Michaels/Jericho from Judgment Day.


----------



## -GP-

Maxx Hero said:


> Are you talking about the match in WXW? I only gave that ****1/4. The crowd was the best I have ever seen and the commentary was ledgendary, but the match was not as good as other indy stuff this year. Definatly the best Hero match this year though.


that's the one.

have it at 4+1/2. Other non-Japan indy stuff at 4+1/2 are (and yes, i do keep a list):

Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Rising Above) ****1/2
Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/2
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/2
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino (ROH DG Challenge II) ****1/2
Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH Respect is Earned II) ****1/2
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black (ROH Take No Prisoners) ****1/2
Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH World Title) (ROH 6th Anniversary Show) ****1/2

...i just realised there's an awful lot of singles Nigel in there...

i think on second/third watch one of the Aries matches may drop it, but i can't be sure


for the record:
WWE - Flair/Michaels
TNA - Cage/Angle (Against all Odds) (haven't seen Angle/AJ yet)


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE - HBK/Flair (WM24)
TNA - Angle/Styles (HJ)
ROH - Nigel/Dragon (6AS)


----------



## Blasko

I'm on the same boat as Andy, my wrestling watching has been on a large slump since the start of 08.


----------



## PulseGlazer

I missed that Puro tag with the guys I don't know everyone's creamed over but so far it's a three horse race:

Taker vs. Edge HIAC
Hero vs. Danielson WXW
and Nigel vs. Aries SCOH 3


----------



## dele

^Are you talking about Teioh and Shinobu vs Mashimo and Madoka? If so, look on the Great Man's site.

By the way:

No Rope, Barbed Wire and Barbed Wire Boards Deathmatch

MASADA, Numazawa, and Kasai vs Ito, WX, and Kobayashi

****


----------



## PulseGlazer

dele3344 said:


> ^Are you talking about Teioh and Shinobu vs Mashimo and Madoka? If so, look on the Great Man's site.
> 
> By the way:
> 
> No Rope, Barbed Wire and Barbed Wire Boards Deathmatch
> 
> MASADA, Numazawa, and Kasai vs Ito, WX, and Kobayashi
> 
> ****



I know it's there. I'll get to it. I'm falling far behind... again.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Roderick Strong vs. Chris Hero ROH Battle for Supremacy-

This is a transition match for both men's characters. Hero and Roderick go on the mat, something Hero is known for and Roderick comes out great, frustrating Hero there. Hero decides, as is his new persona, to instead strike and use impact moves, i.e. Rod's usual strategy. This works for a bit until it pisses off Roderick and he just refuses to lose. A slight distraction costs Roderick the win though and gets him knocked out. Smart booking. Roderick is better at everything, but Hero is so close it takes one instant to turn things around **** - **** 1/4


----------



## Saint Dick

Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven - ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

Briscoes vs. Kota and Nakajima - Story: they hit each other hard. A little dull until they went spot crazy. ****


----------



## casper-21

Chikara YLC Night3:

Fire Ant vs Vin Gerard ****


----------



## ADN

*ROH Fueling The Fire*
Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ****1/4-****1/2

Could have been better if the match at least had a winner


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Northern Navigation*

Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson - ****1/4
A little better than the Vendetta II matchup

Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Austin Aries & Jay Briscoe - ****

*wXw European Navigation - Dead End VIII*

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - **** - ****1/4
Another great match in the series. I love heel Danielson.


----------



## Blasko

Heel Danielson in Germany is pretty much sex.


----------



## Bubz

Just saw the Last Man Standing match between Strong and Stevens, really good match probably **** maybe +. Although i still like their SOH3 FIGHT more


----------



## Seventeen Degrees

Not MOTYC level but pretty good despite less than 150 people seeing the show live + on DVD put together:
NOAH vs. The World - Yoshinobu Kanemaru vs. Zac Sabre Jr about 3-3.5 out of 5. A match with good psycholgy and an awesome display by Sabre Jr that was ruined because Kanemaru didn't sell the arm, hus negating any form of tension surrounding Sabre's offense.

European Navigtion - Bryand Danielson & Eddie Edwards vs KENTA & Taiji Ishimori 4-4.25 a great Jr match where Danielson played a great heel who set up so much tension and made the Danielson KENTA exchanges so much better. Edwards had a career match as well.


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Fueling The Fire*

Danielson & Aries vs. The Machine Guns - ****
Age of The Fall vs. Marufuji & Shiozaki - ****1/4

*wXw European Navigation - Dead End VIII*

Kobashi & Shiozaki vs. Bad Bones & Big Van Walter - **** - ****1/4
Maybe I'll actually buy the DVD instead of watching it at work. Watched two matches and so far so good.


----------



## -GP-

Seventeen Degrees said:


> European Navigtion - Bryand Danielson & Eddie Edwards vs KENTA & Taiji Ishimori 4-4.25 a great Jr match where Danielson played a great heel who set up so much tension and made the Danielson KENTA exchanges so much better. Edwards had a career match as well.


Edwards impressed the hell out of me in that too, and i'm really looking forward to seeing him again at Indypendence Day - great things to come from this guy


----------



## seabs

*Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - Breakout*
_****1/2_

*Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - Southern Navigation*
_****1/4_


----------



## ADN

*ROH Northern Navigation*
Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## Burning Sword

ADN said:


> *ROH Northern Navigation*
> Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/4-****1/2


Just finished watching that match and I couldn't agree more.

*WWE Unforgiven:*

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels- ****1/4


----------



## antoniomare007

i think Strong vs Marufuji should get the same treatment as Claudio/Dragon....two awesome matches.


----------



## Burning Sword

Strong/Marufuji- ****


----------



## ADN

*ROH Northern Navigation*
Naomichi Marufuji vs Roderick Strong - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs Nigel McGuiness - ****-****1/4
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Austin Aries & Jay Briscoe - ****

Pretty good show overall


----------



## Saint Dick

Danielson vs Castagnoli - Northern Navigation - ****1/4

Awesome.


----------



## dele

Kensuke Office 2/11 "Take The Dream Vol 3"

K Sasaki, Y Takayama, Tenryu, Suzuki vs Kawada, Saito, Otani, Yoshie

I'm really torn on this one. I saw it live and was luke-warm on it. However, now that I found a copy of it online and was able to watch it, I like it more. I'm going to give a very broad rating on this, because it's a good match, I'm just not sure how good to rate it.

*** 3/4 - **** 1/4

12/31/07 - 1/1/08
Pro-Wrestling Summit at Korakuen
D Sekimoto, Y Sasaki, Kondo vs HARASHIMA, Kuroda, Mashimo
Since the majority (or at least part of it) took place from 12 am New Year's Day onward, I'm putting it in 08. Don't like it? Too bad.
I had the opportunity to see this live as well. I absolutely loved it. And now that I am able to see it again. It's a pretty easy rating for me:
****1/2 - ****3/4

8/10/08
Abdullah Kobayashi vs Shadow WX - No Rope Barbed Wire Fire Death Match with Fire Boards
I'm a big fan of Abby Jr. But this match was atrocious.
*1/2 - **


----------



## McQueen

That K. Office 8 man is one of my favorite matches from this year but I would saying its a very good MOTYC. *** 3/4 - **** tops from me.


----------



## Blasko

*** 1/2 tops.


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

RoH - Northern Navigation, 25/7/08
"American Dragon" Bryan Danielson vs "Double C" Claudio Castagnoli. ****1/2.

Tremendous display of agility and intensity.
Two of the best performers in Ring of Honor today face to face by the simple reason of makin' us have a good time. A lesson of matt-wrestling and in-ring psychology. Nice trademark games between each other (Claudio telling he's got till five and Bryan shouting "heeeeeeeey!"). But the aftermath was simply perfect; an emotional promo from Danielson proving with the crowd that he is the best in the world.

Awesome. Nice story.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Northern Navigation*

Go Shiozaki vs. Erick Stevens ***3/4-**** 
*Can't wait to see their FIP title match*

Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli ****1/4-****1/2 
*Amazing match. ALOT better then their Vendetta II match imo*

Naomichi Marufuji vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4 
*I've been waiting since 2005 to see this match and it was as awesome as i had been hoping it would be*

Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen ****1/4 
*This really should of main evented, it blew away all my expectations. Steen put on 1 hell of a performance*


----------



## KingCrash

*wXw Dead End VIII*

*Steve Douglas vs. Chris Hero - *****
Main event from night one that was a little slow but overall good and Hero busting out the Rubik's Cube never gets old.


----------



## Bubz

cant wait to see nothern navigation, sounds awesome


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Fueling The Fire*

*Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries vs. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley ****1/2*
Fantastic tag match that i ended up enjoying more then i thought i would. Both teams just seemed so even the entire match.
*Dear Gabe:*
No Time Limit Rematch
Aries vs. Shelley III
Danielson vs. Shelley IV (?)
Aries vs. Sabin
*plz*

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Go Shiozaki ****1/4-****1/2*
Another fantastic tag match, almost as great as the previous even though i could see how others would enjoy this more.
Black and Jacobs may be emo cocksuckers (Alex Shelley's words, Not mine :lmao) but they have been incredible this year.


----------



## Shield Plus

So many stars!!!!

can't wait to see these shows


----------



## seabs

*Cant wait to see MCMG/Aries&Danielson. Senn anything from ***3/4-****1/2 for it. Downlaoded it the other day and need watch it when I've got time. *


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I REALLY need to get my ass in gear and watch some ROH! The most recent 2008 stuff I've seen is Davey/Kota from Bedlam in Beantown.


----------



## Burning Sword

*ROH Fueling the Fire:*

Term Work vs. Motor City Machine Guns- ***3/4

Fine tag match but I felt that it really didn't kick into high gear. Hopefully there's a rematch between the two teams.


----------



## TheUnholyDragon

Good to see Northern Navigation holding up roughly to what I thought of it live.

But seriously...we all know the highlight of the show was Hero CRUSHING Ruckus.


----------



## WillTheBloody

TheUnholyDragon said:


> Good to see Northern Navigation holding up roughly to what I thought of it live.
> 
> But seriously...we all know the highlight of the show was Hero CRUSHING Ruckus.


Steen crushing Nigel > Hero crushing Ruckus


IMO :agree:


----------



## dele

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> *** 1/2 tops.


I think you're just jealous that I saw Kawada, Tenryu, Kensuke, and Takayama ALL IN THE SAME MATCH!!


----------



## Saint Dick

Burning Sword said:


> *ROH Fueling the Fire:*
> 
> Term Work vs. Motor City Machine Guns- ***3/4
> 
> Fine tag match but I felt that it really didn't kick into high gear. Hopefully there's a rematch between the two teams.


I agree with that rating and assessment.


----------



## McQueen

I'm glad MCMG/Briscoes II didn't break down too "OMG SPOTZ!" like the first one did at the end, I preferred the second.


----------



## peep4life

ROH Respect is Earned II
Strong vs Stevens ****1/4
Another great match between these two with an insane ending.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

_Triple H vs. John Cena (Night of Champions):_ _****_

Neat of them play off of the Wrestlmania match that took place a few years back with the back and forth punches, what maybe even better was the crowd there being sucked into it again. I also couldn't help but enjoy HHH making Cena work hard to even try to pull of his Five Knuckle Shuffle. Cena's strategy a few times in the match became a little silly to see, imo. But it wasn't all that so terrible and the two showed somewhat of a perfect struggle when Cena at a point tried to get Hunter in the STFU. The final minutes of the match went quite smooth. A match that could be a favorite of mine when the year ends.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Despite the absolutely atrocious booking, LOVE Cima vs. Danielson II from All Star Weekend 6 Night 2. Enjoyed it much more than their 2007 match. Tremendous storytelling with all kinds of mat work, this is NOT the type of match that everyone will enjoy. Just warning you guys. Do not expect going into this match to see a criss-cross of indy strong style and MOVEZ~! That's not what this match is about. ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

nigel vs lynn - ***3/4 (really good match, seemed a little bit sloppy to start but the rest was great)

jay vs necro - respect is earned 2 (AWESOME! one of the best brawls iv ever seen in roh! not sure how to rate it though as there was no selling and they just beat the shit out of eachover)


----------



## PulseGlazer

Three from Vendetta II-

Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli- this was really three different matches with nothing that made any sense transitioning between. The comedy was cute, but went too far... then Danielson controlled for ages and neither Claudio's selling or comebacks made it anything... then randomly they had a big strike war to the finish for no reason. Lame. ** and my least fav Danielson match since Biohazard.

Lynn vs. Nigel- this was great. They built everything around respect and the tricks of a veteran vs. the tricks of a heel. Nigel's physical superiority due to age lead to his tricks being superior in a great back and forth match. ****

Aries vs. Jacobs

The brawl early being set off by the kiss was brilliant, as was Aries fire letting him control. Jacobs trying to mess up Aries back really worked as well, with the inadvertant cut adding a lot to that. They mixed the brawling with actual moves very well and Aries even threw semi-decent worked punches. Aries did a bit too much carrying of Jacobs in power spots after his back was hurt (standing in the end time, a sit up out of the tree of woe), but made up for it by focussing everything on hurting Jacobs neck. Jacobs is a god at these matches, knowing exactly how to risk everything for the win with huge moves and still be a sneering heel. The overbooking was reminiscent of Raven and didn't play in the finish. Effective stuff. The finishing sequence was hot and very smartly put together. **** 1/4- **** 1/2.


----------



## Saint Dick

:lmao

**? Nice rating.


----------



## watts63

*EWF 12th Anniversary Extravaganza: Nothing Personal*
Brandon Gatson vs. Scorpio Sky ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## andremt9

watts63 said:


> *EWF 12th Anniversary Extravaganza: Nothing Personal*
> Brandon Gatson vs. Scorpio Sky ****1/4-****1/2


Holy Shit!Gatson is the next big thing LOL


Mascarita Sagrada vs. Tsuki *****

(only joking)


----------



## mes

andremt9 said:


> Mascarita Sagrada vs. Tsuki *****
> 
> (only joking)


LMAO
You sure haven't watched any mini south of the border action, your so wrong my friend.


----------



## mateuspfc

NOAH 14/06/08
*Kenta Kobashi/KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki/Katsuhiko Nakajima
****1/2*

Oh shit, the more I see those guys wrestling, the less I think they're fucking human. Awesome match.


----------



## Saint Dick

PulseGlazer said:


> Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli- this was really three different matches with nothing that made any sense transitioning between. The comedy was cute, but went too far... then Danielson controlled for ages and neither Claudio's selling or comebacks made it anything... then randomly they had a big strike war to the finish for no reason. Lame. ** and my least fav Danielson match since Biohazard.


It's called one-upmanship.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Ownage™ said:


> It's called one-upmanship.


That'd generally involve some kind of back and forth. At first its pure comedy, not one upsmanship. They aren't competing, they're joking. Okay, fine if that's the match. 

Then they decide to compete... and it isn't close, Danielson just dominates... again, one upsmanship generally involves a back and forth.

Finally they go into striking and spots... with no reason for Danielson to stop dominating on the mat, it just changes. Here you have one upmanship, but its maybe 3 minutes of a 20 minute match. Terrible.


----------



## Blasko

Claudio has become just hit and miss in the pass year or so. 

Shame, he was one of my favorites in 07.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Albright vs. Pearce NWA Title Match - DBD VI

The mat wrestling early is awesome in that it isn't the usual exhibition stuff guys do. It's filled with personality. Pearce shows that he has no interest in winning fairly, taking cheap shots to gain any advantage, while Albright is showing greater skill than Pearce, but has no shame in hitting him as hard as he an at every opportunity to put over the hate. Pearce, for all his weaknesses, is great at showing no positive qualities and making his advantages seem like either cheating or flukes to really put over a face. Biting Albright then spitting in the ref's face was pretty fucking awesome too. 

Pearce's early match control is pretty slow, but full of heelish goodness and Albright's color really help add to the intensity of this. Albright is excellent at taking a beating and giving token "still has fight in him" hope spots so the crowd doesn't get bored. Sweeey's random interference and the Roderick save work out so perfectly in the match, changing gears and making it clear that interference from SnS will not be tolerated, nor will we get a screwjob. That realization actually fires up both Albright and the crowd as business picks up.

The crowd is in a frenzy for Albright's big knees, so Pearce's counter has to be big to keep them up and pointedly stop Albright's momentum before the match ends. Well, this being an NWA title match, what better move to do that and play off history than the figure four? So much for the knee strikes, but even after this, the challenger won't stay down.

Pearce begins to chain up the attacks of former big names- a back drop, a splash from the top, and an STF... (all put over by the history referenced pre-match). Albright is still better than Pearce and he quickly has a counter into the crowbar. Pearce is incredibly lucky, however, and as Albright goes up, Pearce throws him off and he crashes through a table, barely getting in the ring before the 10 count, but no time for cheering as he gets immediately hit with the devestating piledriver immediately upon re-entering. Pearce is stupefied.

Albright out of desperation gets a counter and a half-nelson suplex but has nothing left to go for the pin. He tries to fire himself up and get up, but its slow going for both men. He gets a second half-nelson suplex upon rising, but Pearce, in control much of the preceeding time and just laying there for quite awhile is able to kick out without looking strong in the proccess in what is some great timing. Both men are even in energy left now.

They begin to battle on their knees up to their feet (YAAAY, BOOO!). Pearce tries a shortcut but Albright is ready and chains German suplexes together. Pearce tries to grab Del Rey to stop it, but again his shortcut is cut off. After five German suplexes Albright goes for a cover and a nearfall results. Again Albright was too slow in going for the cover and unable to hook the leg due to the energy he has expended.

Albright goes up again, but Pearce is up, so Albright changes to a sunset flip. Pearce is ready and goes for the figure-4 and we have a counter sequence into a near fall. Albright continues to show his mat advantag and locks in the crowbar, forcing Pearce to tap.

**** 1/2 - **** 3/4 - Nothing here didn't pay off and nearly everything occurred more than once, leading to it getting a bigger pop the second time around. They played off the NWA title's history, both men's character, and moves from earlier in the match. The selling and intensity were top notch. Pearce selling a beating a time or two when he didn't recently take one hurt, as did a slight overkill on the near falls, but the first goes to put over how much energy is being expended in Pearce's attempts to kill Alrbight while the second puts over the importance of the title.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Go Shiozaki vs. Naomichi Marufuji - Death before Dishonor VI - **** just barely.

What a way to put Go over as an absolute beast. He crushes Marufuji early, physically outclassing Marufuji to the point where Marufuji, out of desperation, tries to do everything he can on the apron to break Go's neck. Go can't strategically keep up with Marufuji, but he gives it a hell of a shot, while physically outclassing Marufuji at every turn and even showing he can keep up in speed. Marufuji gets so desperate he even has to bust out to pole shift to put him away before Go can connect with a killer move... which Marufuji knows is a matter of time.


----------



## Saint Dick

PulseGlazer said:


> That'd generally involve some kind of back and forth. At first its pure comedy, not one upsmanship. They aren't competing, they're joking. Okay, fine if that's the match.
> 
> Then they decide to compete... and it isn't close, Danielson just dominates... again, one upsmanship generally involves a back and forth.
> 
> Finally they go into striking and spots... with no reason for Danielson to stop dominating on the mat, it just changes. Here you have one upmanship, but its maybe 3 minutes of a 20 minute match. Terrible.


Even though the first part of the match involves a lot of comedy that doesn't mean they weren't trying to one up each other and I don't remember Dragon dominating Claudio on the mat. One of the most entertaining matches this year imo.


----------



## PulseGlazer

MCMG vs. Steen and Generico (Death before Dishonor VI) - 

The entire match is built around the following: Generico can't hang with MCMG. They stretch the hell out of him. Next, Steen is too strong for MCMG individually. MCMG have a huge double team advantage, but Steen's power sets up Generico sneaking in with huge moves perfectly. Lastly, who's a bigger prick, Steen or Shelley? 

After Generico plays Ricky Mortin, the hot tag leads to the usual melee, but underestimating Generico allows him to sneak in for the Brainbustaaaaaaaaaaah as Steen is using the sharpshooter for the win. ****

They were clearly saving for a rematch and that's just crazy given the overkill here.


----------



## seabs

*MCMG vs Danielson/Aries*

_****1/2_

*I really thought this was just simply amazing. The amazing pace and obvious quality of all 4 guys came together really well all added to the fact it's easily my two favourite teams atm going against each other in a match a year ago you never thought would have happened. Sure the ending with the time limit sucked big time but the 25 minutes of wrestling that they did get in was amazing and had it not stopped, could have been going towards a ***** classic imo. 
MCMG seriously need to get out of TNA and go back to ROH or at least work more shows for them. Unfinished business with AOTF still, still need their 3rd decider match with The Briscoes, Team Work match MUST happen again with no time limits and I havent seen their match with Steenerico yet but I'm sure it's awesome. Plz.*


----------



## Saint Dick

^I gave that match ***3/4.

MCMG/Steenerico - DBD VI - ****


----------



## McQueen

PulseGlazer said:


> Albright vs. Pearce NWA Title Match - DBD VI
> 
> The mat wrestling early is awesome in that it isn't the usual exhibition stuff guys do. It's filled with *personality*. Pearce shows that he has no interest in winning fairly, taking cheap shots to gain any advantage, while Albright is showing greater skill than Pearce, but has no shame in hitting him as hard as he an at every opportunity to put over the hate. *Pearce, for all his weaknesses, is great at showing no positive qualities and making his advantages seem like either cheating or flukes to really put over a face.* Biting Albright then spitting in the ref's face was pretty fucking awesome too.


This is why I have undying love for the "Scrap Daddy" he has an actual personality and he's one of the few guys on the indies who seems to understand you don't need to work a match around doing "MOVEZ" for crowd pops. Pearce acting like a bitch, and making his opponent look WAY better than him most of the time are all just a part of his "spots" and quite rightly so as that is traditionally how a heel should work his matches.

Sure, he may not be Mr. "*****" match but hell if the man doesn't know how to work his particular style.

Bless you Scrap Daddy (for not stooping to 90% of the rest of the indy guys' level), bless you.


----------



## gusbarba

DBD IV
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki - ****
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ****1/4


----------



## watts63

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*
Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright ****1/2-****3/4

I hope this match makes it on the Reclaiming to Glory DVD.


----------



## seabs

*Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ROH DBD VI*
_***3/4

No, I havent missed a * off it accidently. I think I've seen at least 3 people already give it ****1/2 or more and I think they're pretty credible raters too so I gave it a download to see what they hype was about. First off I'm not the biggest fan by any means of either guys. Pearce is a great heel but I dont think much of him in the ring tbh. Albright is better in the ring but again I dont think that much of him. So how have these two had a MOTY match? 

Anyway, I watched it and it was pretty much what I expected tbh. Decent match, crowd was great btw but not MOTY at all imo. All hype and nothing else which was kinda what I epxected._


----------



## Devildude

Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki - ****
Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ****1/4

Both matches from DBD VI.


----------



## Sephiroth

I heart Seabs


----------



## seabs

*MCMG vs Steenerico - DBD IV*

_****-****1/4_


----------



## stinger-splash

I've heard a lot of good things from various Murdercity Machine Guns matches this year. Which one do you guys recommend me to watch?


----------



## seabs

*vs AOTF ****1/4-1/2

vs Briscoes ****1/2

vs Team Work ****1/2-

vs Steenerico ****-****1/4

They had a great match on Impact with Speed Muscle thats worth checking out too.*


----------



## stinger-splash

Seabs said:


> *vs AOTF ****1/4-1/2
> 
> vs Briscoes ****1/2
> 
> vs Team Work ****1/2-
> 
> vs Steenerico ****-****1/4
> 
> They had a great match on Impact with Speed Muscle thats worth checking out too.*


Thanks Seabs Will definitely check out those 4 matches. 
Yeah I saw their match on Impact against Speed Muscle, ***3/4. That's aslo why I said Murdercity Machine Guns


----------



## andremt9

Brent Albright vs. Adam Pearce - Death Before Dishonor VI - **** & 1/2*

Ring Psychology,intensity,perfect storytelling,Old School Style.


----------



## Saint Dick

stinger-splash said:


> I've heard a lot of good things from various Murdercity Machine Guns matches this year. Which one do you guys recommend me to watch?


vs Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black - Tag Wars
vs The Briscoes - Return Engagement


----------



## Burning Sword

It's been awhile since I seen the Return Engagement match. I might have to watch it again soon.


----------



## casper-21

AJPW 25.05.08 - THC Junior Title:

Ryuji Hijikata vs Kaz Hayashi ****


----------



## PulseGlazer

Nigel vs. Bryan vs. Tyler vs. Claudio - DBD VI

The early part of the match was everyone trying to get their hands on Nigel, who just kept escaping. Claudio's focus was, however, off, as he kept aiming for Danielson. Nigel had no intention of being caught against anyone, especially Danielson, so he focussed on cheap shots and being out of the ring. This went on at a slow escalation until Danielson pinned Claudio who then went insane and killed Danielson, leaving him easy pickings for Nigel. 

Part two of the match saw a hyped, but worn down (from the first part of the match that Nigel avoided) Tyler Black take it to Nigel for numerous near falls. If you liked Take No Prisoner's, you'll love this. Ultimately, Tyler was unable to finish with his Phoenix Splash (it missed) leaving Nigel a shot to lariat him to deat. **** 1/2


----------



## -GP-

I'm jumping on the ****1/2 bandwagon for Albright-Pearce too.
The played off everything in the match, had great flow and finished with a super-hot finish sequence.
Really loved it, just good old simple wrestling, great stuff.


----------



## seabs

*Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black vs Claudio Castognoli - ROH Championship - DBD VI*

_****1/2_


----------



## ADN

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*
Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ****1/2
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ****
Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black vs Claudio Castognoli-****1/4


----------



## casper-21

DDT "BEER GARDEN PRO-WRESTLING", 10.08.2008 

DDT Extreme Title, Street Fight Falls Count Anywhere Death Match: Sanshiro Takagi (c) vs Kenny Omega ****


----------



## Saint Dick

ADN said:


> *ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*
> Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ****1/2
> Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ****
> Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black vs Claudio Castognoli-****1/4


Agree with the ratings for the tag match and the four way. Haven't seen Pearce/Albright yet.


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH – Death Before Dishonor VI*

Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright - ****1/2
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black - ****1/2

*NOAH Shiny Navigation 9/6/8*

The Briscoe Bros. vs. Kota Ibushi & Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*

*Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright* ****1/2

*Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki* ****-****1/4

*Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley* ****

*Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black* ****1/2
_This is the 17th match this year featuring Bryan Danielson that i've rated ****+, and there is still 2 matches with McGuiness to come, his match with Nakajima, 3rd match with Tyler and his match with Kanemaru. Incredible._


----------



## BeastOfTheEast07

I usually don't rate matches but I'm pretty bored

*Albright/Pearce* ****1/4 - The match screams that it's gonna be a forgotten classic a couple years from now. If Gunner Scott can keep his performances up like this, then he will be a pretty good at the upper-midcarder-main eventer

*Steenerico/MCMG* **** - As the match suggests, it is a damn fun match with an electric ending.

*Claudio/Black/Danielson/McGuiness* **** - This match seems to me like it's a little overrated. To me it seems that the match is more focused on storylines than anything else. Still a pretty damn good match though.

So yeah, buy DBD6.


----------



## Caponex75

*Roderick Strong vs. Marafuji from Northern Navigation - ****1/2*
Strong happens to get the BEST match out of Marafuji and yet doesn't get no love? I've lost faith in people.....

*Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright for the NWA World Title at Death Before Dishonor - ****3/4*
How these two have such great chemistry is out of this world insane and Strong turning into Stone Cold sold me on this match. I hope this doesn't get overlooked.


----------



## mateuspfc

*ROH New Horizons*

*Nigel McGuinness vs. Claudio Castagnoli* ****
Pretty much better than their match at A New Level, since they just went back and forth, hitting the big moves, using everything in and out of the ring to try to win. This time Claudio shows that he REALLY had a chance to win it, and his inumerous counters to the Jawbreaker were awesomely impressive. Great match.

*Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black* ****1/2
It was their third counter, but yet they always work a very different match. I felt Danielson wasted a bit of time working the shoulder, but it didn't took a lot out of the match. When they got to 6th gear, we got the awesomeness I expected. Nigel's commentary added a lot to the match, and the spots were really sick. Also, the turnbuckle stuff (not sure if it was worked or not), took a great tolll on the match, since it didn't allowed Black to nail the Phoenix Splash, a important move he used to defeat Dragon at the last PPV. Everthing made perfect sense, and if Black wasn't really solidified as a big star of ROH, well, this match pretty sums it up.


----------



## KingKicks

Caponex75 said:


> *Roderick Strong vs. Marafuji from Northern Navigation - ****1/2*
> Strong happens to get the BEST match out of Marafuji and yet doesn't get no love? I've lost faith in people.....
> 
> *Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright for the NWA World Title at Death Before Dishonor - ****3/4*
> How these two have such great chemistry is out of this world insane and Strong turning into Stone Cold sold me on this match. I hope this doesn't get overlooked.


Strong's boot to Sweeney was a thing of beauty.


----------



## andremt9

mateuspfc said:


> *ROH New Horizons*
> 
> *Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black* ****1/2
> It was their third counter, but yet they always work a very different match. I felt Danielson wasted a bit of time working the shoulder, but it didn't took a lot out of the match. When they got to 6th gear, we got the awesomeness I expected. Nigel's commentary added a lot to the match, and the spots were really sick. Also, the turnbuckle stuff (not sure if it was worked or not), took a great tolll on the match, since it didn't allowed Black to nail the Phoenix Splash, a important move he used to defeat Dragon at the last PPV. Everthing made perfect sense, and if Black wasn't really solidified as a big star of ROH, well, this match pretty sums it up.



Better than their Breakout's match?


----------



## McQueen

Glazer better step up and tell me which Black/Dragon match was best.


----------



## mateuspfc

andremt9 said:


> Better than their Breakout's match?


Yes, IMO, because in that match, Danielson went from mocking Black in the early going, to desperate to win it (so much that he won with an small package).
In this one, they already knew what to expect from the other, so they had an strategy, which led to a better conclusion, at least in my view. 

My ranking to their series:
*New Horizons* - ****1/2
*Southern Navigation* - ****1/4
*Breakout* - ****-****1/4


----------



## vivalabrave

Breakout - ****
Southern Navigation - **** (better)
New Horizons - Considering how far behind I've gotten...I'll have a rating on this by next year's MOTYC Thread.


----------



## McQueen

Viva I obviously don't have New Horizons and I haven't got to Southern Nav yet. I'm actually get caught up on my ROH as we speak, honest!

6AS rules the school by the way, it may not have an equal amount of "stars" as Supercard III but I think its a better show.


----------



## vivalabrave

McQueen said:


> Viva I obviously don't have New Horizons and I haven't got to Southern Nav yet. *I'm actually get caught up on my ROH as we speak, honest!*






McQueen said:


> 6AS rules the school by the way, it may not have an equal amount of "stars" as Supercard III but I think its a better show.


I haven't seen SOHIII yet but I think 6AS is my favorite show so far this year (and will probably continue to be). It had so many winning qualities that I need for a show to be an all time favorite.

*1.* Hot opener
*2.* Awesome segment after said opener with Nigel/Dragon (That segment doesn't get enough love. Showed Danielson's evolved character perfectly)
*3.* Everything was at least very watchable.
*4.* A GREAT match before intermission
*5.* Fun spotfest FIP title match
*6.* Epic main event that told story that I couldn't look away from. Amazing heat and Nigel finally beat Dragon in the middle of the ring.

I agree, stars aren't everything. Excluding Driven this is probably my favorite ROH show since Final Battle 06 (which was a show very similar to this one).


----------



## McQueen

DON'T YOU, DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE NIGEL!

I love that segment. Yeah the inbetween matches stuff on that show was pretty swank and add more to the show whereas Supercard I felt was just Great Match after great match. For instance one of my very favorite ROH shows is Escape From New York from '05 because it had a lot to offer aside from the matches on the card.


----------



## KingKicks

vivalabrave said:


> I haven't seen SOHIII yet but I think 6AS is my favorite show so far this year (and will probably continue to be). It had so many winning qualities that I need for a show to be an all time favorite.
> 
> *1.* Hot opener
> *2.* Awesome segment after said opener with Nigel/Dragon (That segment doesn't get enough love. Showed Danielson's evolved character perfectly)
> *3.* Everything was at least very watchable.
> *4.* A GREAT match before intermission
> *5.* Fun spotfest FIP title match
> *6.* *Epic main event that told story that I couldn't look away from. Amazing heat and Nigel finally beat Dragon in the middle of the ring.*
> 
> I agree, stars aren't everything. Excluding Driven this is probably my favorite ROH show since Final Battle 06 (which was a show very similar to this one).



Danielson/McGuiness really doesn't get the love it deserves. I've got it close to ****3/4.


----------



## vivalabrave

I've actually got it at an easy ****3/4. I'm tempted to go full monty but something's holding me back.

2006 - Nigel/Dragon #2 MOTY
2007 - Nigel/Dragon #1 MOTY
2008 - Nigel/Dragon #1 MOTY

Not bad.


----------



## seabs

*ROH: Sixth Year Annivesary Show

Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki*
_****1/4+_

*Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens vs Necro Butcher*
_****_

*Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness*
_****1/2+_


----------



## PulseGlazer

McQueen said:


> Glazer better step up and tell me which Black/Dragon match was best.


As soon as I get the PPV sir.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

6AS is a better show than SCOH3. There are no logical arguments. Tell me, which main event left you more satisfied? Nigel going back to being the fucking prick that we all should have remembered that he was, or six guys just going through a bunch moves?


----------



## Sephiroth

Caponex75 said:


> *Roderick Strong vs. Marafuji from Northern Navigation - ****1/2*
> Strong happens to get the BEST match out of Marafuji and yet doesn't get no love? I've lost faith in people.....


I think his match with Danielson from A New Level is better. Sorry


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

From what I've seen (up to April 2008 now), Marufuji's best ROH matches were against Nigel, Generico, and Davey.


----------



## seabs

*MCMG vs Fujita and Sugawara - Zero1-Max 4/6/2008*
_****1/4_

*KENTA & Ishimori vs Danielson & Edawrds - NOAH European Navigation*
_****1/4+_

*Jay Briscoe vs Kanemaru - NOAH European Navigation*
_***1/2_


----------



## Saint Dick

Pearce/Albright - DBD VI - ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## PulseGlazer

superdupersonic said:


> 6AS is a better show than SCOH3. There are no logical arguments. Tell me, which main event left you more satisfied? Nigel going back to being the fucking prick that we all should have remembered that he was, or six guys just going through a bunch moves?


The DG 6-man wasn't the main event no matter when it went on. Nigel vs. Aries was as good or better than Danielson vs. Nigel from 6as, while the Steenerico vs. Shingo and BxB destroys anything else from 6AS. Stevens and Strong's brawl is better than the three way and even AOTF and the Briscoes deliverred far above the tag title match. All that is without the DG 6-man which was at worst hella fun.


----------



## seabs

*Naomichi Marufuji vs Go Shiozaki - ROH DVD VI*
_****_


----------



## Burning Sword

*Kensuke Office Vol. 6 (8/17/08)*

*Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhito Nakajima, Takashi Okita, & Kento Miyahira vs. Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki, & Akihiko Ito- ****1/2-****3/4*

This basically the KENTA show as he was in the match for almost an entire hour. Nakajima was game here too and the young guys showed some promise. Oh yeah, Kensuke and Kobashi is in it, so I suggest you guys give it a watch. It's my new MOTY so far.


----------



## seabs

*ROH New Horzions

Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black*
_****1/2

Better than their Breakout and Souther Navigation matches imo.
New Horizons > Breakout > Southern Navigation_


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH New Horizons*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black* ****1/2

*Nigel McGuiness vs. Claudio Castagnoli* ****


----------



## Robert-Kenflin

Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black, New Horizons PPV. This is wrestling! ****3/4

Aamazing display of wrestling passion. This is why i loved Danielson for this six years. Tyler Black's gonna be the future in RoH -even his promos and his mic suck a lot-. When Danielson works Tyler's leg i said "this only gotta happen in Ring of Honor". Ask me for the best match in 2008 and i'm gonna tell ya who can do it. Even more if the crowd is very excited watching the match when Bryan and Tyler are telling'em a story on the ring.

Plus the "aftermath/brawl/ftw" between Aries & Jacobs and Necro throwing them falling from the top of the ladder.
Yes, i'm a rohbot and i mark it out.

Now, Death Before Dishonor gets a significate for the feud.
Thank you, Gabe.


----------



## Caponex75

Sephiroth said:


> I think his match with Danielson from A New Level is better. Sorry


I thought Fuji's match with Danielson was **** probably would of been more if Danielson sold his neck which Marafuji DESTROYED. The match had me wanting it to end soon kinda like the AOTF match with the MCMG which I rated the same. Nothing against the guys that like it and felt the match was Fuji's best in the States but I think Strong/Fuji rapes the shit out of it. I haven't seen Generico or Nigel's encounters with Fuji yet tho.


----------



## Burning Sword

Fuji/Strong wasn't as great as you think it is Capone. I'm a fan of both and I enjoyed the match, but I gave it ***3/4-****. Very good match but not the best of Northern Navigation and definitely not as good as the Danielson/Marufuji match from A New Level.


----------



## Saint Dick

Danielson/Black - New Horizons - ****1/2

The turnbuckle break was awesome.


----------



## Bubz

Nigel vs Claudio - New Horizons - ****1/4

loved this match! my only complaint was that nigel didnt get as many of his big moves in as i would of liked, but still awesome!

aparantly Dragon vs Black is better, so im really looking farward to seeing that


----------



## antoniomare007

i'm not a fan of putting star ratingz~! so i wont.....but the Kensuke Office vs NOAH Elimination Tag from 8/17/08 is without doubt a MOTYC


----------



## watts63

*ROH Death Before Dishonor IV*
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black ****1/2
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4
Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ****


----------



## casper-21

Recap:

*MOTY 2008*
1. Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - FIP Redefined (FIP World title)
2. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi - ROH SOH3
3. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Genesis
3 bis. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 28.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
4. Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show
5. Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji - ROH A New Level
6. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - ROH RIE2 (ROH tag)
7. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH New Horizons
8. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH Breakout
9. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk vs Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - Dragon Gate 15.01.08 (GHC tag junior)
10. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 02.01.08 (BJW tag)
11. Naomichi Marufuji vs Roderick Strong - ROH Northern navigation
12. Takeshi Morishima vs Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 14.06.08 (GHC World title)
13. Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Fueling The Fire
14. Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH SOH3 (ROH World title)
15. Briscoes vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Return Engagement
16. Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ROH Take No Prisoners
17. Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ROH Take No Prisoners (ROH World title)
18. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Gate Of Generation (GHC tag junior)
19. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Taiyo Kea - AJPW 06.04.08 Champion Carnival
20. Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - ROH Return Engagement
21. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Briscoes vs Jack Evans & Jigsaw vs Brent Albright & B.J.Whitmer (ultimate endurance) - ROH Proving Ground (ROH tag)
22. CIMA, Go Shiozaki & Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero - ROH DGC2
23. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW WKingdom (IWGP title)
24. Kohei Suwama vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - AJPW 09.04.08 Champion Carnival Final
25. Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Northern Navigation
26. Erick Stevens vs Bryan Danielson - ROH Battle For Supremacy
27. Briscoes vs Austin Aries & Kota Ibushi - ROH Tag Wars
28. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin - NOAH 01.06.08 (GHC tag junior)
29. Undertaker vs Edge (hell in a cell) - WWE Summerslam
30. Masato Tanaka vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 13.04.08 (Z-1 World title)
31. Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 23.06.08
32. Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - ROH Vendetta II
33. Sanshiro Takagi vs Kenny Omega (street fight) - DDT 10.08.08 (Extreme title)
34. A.J. Styles vs Kurt Angle (last man standing) - TNA Hard Justice
35. Shingo Takagi vs BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Kobe World Hall (Dream Gate title)
36. Teddy Hart vs Homicide vs Eddie Kingston (street fight) - JAPW Reclaiming Hudson
37. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs Ikuto Hidaka & Dick Togo - Zero-1 Genesis (NWA Int Light tag)
38. Fire Ant vs Vin Gerard - Chikara YLC N3 (YLC)
39. KENTA vs Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive
40. Tiger Mask IV vs Prince Devitt - NJPW 08.07.08 (IWGP junior tournament final)
41. Ryuji Hijikata vs Kaz Hayashi - AJPW 25.05.08 (THC junior title)
42. Devon Moore vs Danny Havoc - IWA-MS KOTDM Final
43. Jimmy Jacobs vs B.J.Whitmer (no ropes barbed wire) - IWA-MS April Bloodshowers
44. Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki - PWG ASW6 N1


----------



## watts63

Well, here's my recap:

*Kensuke Office 8/17/08
Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara ****3/4-*****

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 3
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero ****3/4-*****

WWE Summerslam '08
Undertaker vs. Edge ****3/4

BJW 1/2/08
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor IV
Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright ****1/2-****3/4

ROH Take No Prisoners
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ****1/2

TNA Lockdown '08
Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe ****1/2

BJW 4/28/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/2

Dragon Gate 7/27/08
Gamma, Yasushi Kanda & YAMATO vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Naoki Tanisaki vs. Dragon Kid, PAC & Anthony W. Mori vs. Masaaki Mochizuki, Magnitude Kishiwada & Don Fujii ****1/2

CHIKARA Young Lions Cup VI Night 3
Vin Gerard vs. Fire Ant ****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 5/23/08
Akitoshi Saito & Bison Smith vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/2

ROH Death Before Dishonor IV
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black ****1/2

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Yasushi Kanda ****1/2

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night One
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 3/2/08
Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Suguira vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ****1/4-****1/2

FIP Redefined
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Judgment Day '08
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4-****1/2

ROH Northern Navigation
Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen ****1/4-****1/2

ZERO1-MAX Ichii Senshin GW Special
Masato Tanaka & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato ****1/4-****1/2

Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/14/08
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima ****1/4-****1/2

EWF 12th Anniversary Extravaganza: Nothing Personal
Brandon Gatson vs. Scorpio Sky ****1/4-****1/2

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels ****1/4

Pro Wrestling NOAH 2/21/08
Kenta Kobashi, Shuhei Taniguchi & Tamon Honda vs. Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura ****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid ****1/4

BJW 2/9/08
Mammoth Sasaki vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****1/4

IWA-MS 500th Show
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson ****1/4

ROH Proving Ground
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ****1/4

WWE One Night Stand '08
Edge vs. Undertaker ****1/4

ROH A New Level
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****1/4

ROH Death Before Dishonor VI
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki ****1/4

WWE Backlash '08
Undertaker vs. Edge ****-****1/4

WWE Wrestlemania 24
Edge vs. Undertaker ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Eddie Kingston vs. Shane Storm ****-****1/4

CHIKARA Two Eyebrows Better Than One
Gran Akuma & Icarus vs. Solider & Fire Ant ****-****1/4

PWG All-Star Weekend VI Night Two
Human Tornado vs. Candice LaRae ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ****-****1/4

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 2
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji ****-****1/4

ROH Respect is Earned II
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****-****1/4

PWG Pearl Habra
Low Ki vs. El Generico ****-****1/4

Dragon Gate Infinity #80
Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma & Yasushi Kanda vs. SHINGO, BxB Hulk, YAMATO, Cyber Kong & Shinobu ****-****1/4

Kensuke Office 3/28/08
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Magnitude Kishiwada ****-****1/4

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & Ryusuke Taguchi ****-****1/4

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament '08 Day 3
Bad Bones vs. Bryan Danielson ****-****1/4

ROH Supercard of Honor III
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****

TNA Hard Justice '08
AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle ****

ROH Northern Navigation
Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson ****

Pro Wrestling NOAH 6/1/08
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin ****

wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 1
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Chris Hero vs. Human Tornado ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ****

WWE Backlash '08
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels ****

ROH Southern Navigation
Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Go Shiozaki vs. Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero ****

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom II
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura ****

CHIKARA King of Trios '08 Night Three
Eddie Kingston, Joker & Sabian vs. Delirous, Hallowicked & Helios ****

ZERO1-MAX 7th Anniversary Show
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka ****

IWA-MS April Bloodshowers '08
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs ****

DG The Gate of Generation
SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori ****

PWG Pearl Habra
Roderick Strong vs. Rocky Romero ****

NJPW 4/13/08
Masato Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto ****

TNA Against All Odds '08
Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage ****

ROH 6th Anniversary Show
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher ****

WWE Judgment Day '08
Edge vs. Undertaker ****

DG DEAD OR ALIVE
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi ****

PWG iDia de los Dangerous!
Human Tornado vs. Necro Butcher ****

TNA Slammiversary '08
Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles ****

Dragon Gate Wrestle JAM 3
CIMA, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid & Human Tornado vs. SHINGO, Austin Aries, Jack Evans & Cyber Kong ****

ROH Death Before Dishonor IV
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****

ROH Return Engagement
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico ****

ROH Battle For Supremacy
Chris Hero vs. Roderick Strong ****

NJPW G1 Climax 8/16/08
Minoru & Fergal Devitt vs. Jushin Liger & AKIRA *****​


----------



## KingKicks

*
1. Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - FIP Redefined - ****3/4

2. Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black - ROH No More Prisoners - ****1/2

3. Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****1/2

4. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson and Eddie Edwards - NOAH European Navigation - ****1/2

5. Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****1/2

6. BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - ****1/2

7. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - ROH Fueling The Fire - ****1/2

8. Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****1/2

9. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - ROH Return Engagement - ****1/2

10.Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH New Horizons - ****1/2

11.Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Rising Above - ****1/2

12.Jimmy Jacobs vs. Austin Aries - ROH Vendetta II - ****1/2

13.Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - wXW 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Three - ****1/2

14.AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle - TNA Hard Justice - ****1/2

15.Team NOAH vs. No Remorse Corps - ROH Southern Navigation - ****1/2

16.Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/2

17.Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ****1/2

18.Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - ROH Tag Wars 2008 - ****1/2

19.El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****1/2

20.Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Go Shiozaki - ROH Fueling The Fire - ****1/4-****1/2

21.Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Northern Navigation - ****1/4-****1/2

22.Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ROH A New Level - ****1/4-****1/2

23.Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****1/4-****1/2

24.The Undertaker vs. Edge - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/4-****1/2

25.Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/4-****1/2

26.Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH European Navigation - ****1/4

27.Roderick Strong vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ROH Northern Navigation - ****1/4

28.Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Three - ****1/4

29.Money In The Bank IV - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****1/4

30.Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH Southern Navigation - ****1/4

31.Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen - ROH Northern Navigation - ****1/4

32.Roderick Strong vs. Chris Hero - ROH Battle For Supremacy - ****1/4

33.Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH Breakout - ****1/4

34.Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ****1/4

35.Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/4

36.Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori - DG Gate Of Generation 08 - ****1/4

37.Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****1/4

38.Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Austin Aries and Kota Ibushi - ROH Tag Wars 2008 - ****1/4

39.Triple H vs. John Cena - WWE Night Of Champions - ****1/4

40.Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ROH Without Remorse - ****1/4

41.The Undertaker vs. Edge - Summerslam 2008 - ****1/4

42.Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries - ROH No More Prisoners - ****1/4

43.Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries - ROH Proving Ground - ****1/4

44.Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage - TNA Against All Odds - ****1/4

45.Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****1/4

46.Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. SHINGO and BxB Hulk - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****-****1/4

47.Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP Dangerous Intentions 2008 - ****-****1/4

48.Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****1/4

49.Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****-****1/4

50.KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****-****1/4

51.Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - Champions Carnival - ****-****1/4

52.Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - TNA Slammiversary 2008 - ****

53.Bryan Danielson vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Battle For Supremacy - ****

54.Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****

55.El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - ROH Return Engagement - ****

56.Nigel McGuiness vs. Jerry Lynn - ROH Vendetta II - ****

57.Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles - NJPW 2/17/08 - ****

58.AJ Styles, Christian Cage, Rhino vs. Kurt Angle and Team 3D - TNA Victory Road - ****

59.The Undertaker vs. Edge - WWE One Night Stand 2008 - ****

60.Raw Elimination Chamber - WWE No Way Out 2008 - ****

61.CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Dragon Kid vs. Yasushi Kanda - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****

62.BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS 500th Show - ****

63.Ultimate Endurance - ROH Without Remorse - ****

64.Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Judgment Day 2008 - ****

65.Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night One - ****

67.Nigel McGuiness vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ROH New Horizons - ****

68.Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

69.Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

70.Lethal Lockdown - TNA Lockdown 2008 - ****

71.Ultimate Endurance - ROH Proving Ground - ****

72.Roderick Strong and Davey Richards vs. Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson - ROH Up For Grabs - ****

73.El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards and Rocky Romero - ROH A New Level - ****

74.Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Two - ****

75.Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Vendetta II - ****

76.12 Man Elimination - TNA Victory Road - ****

77.Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen - ROH Return Engagement - ****

78.Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Six Sides Of Steel)- 3/6 Impact - ****

79.Roderick Strong vs. Necro Butcher vs. Erick Stevens - 6th Anniversary Show - ***3/4-****

80.Necro Butcher vs. Jay Briscoe - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ***3/4-****

81.Erick Stevens vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH Northern Navigation - ***3/4-****

82.Nigel McGuiness and Go Shiozaki vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH Double Feature - ***3/4-*****

I still want to give alot of the matches a rewatch plus i need to watch some more Puro and PWG.


----------



## Bubz

just watched Dragon vs Black from New Horizons.
Amazing, Great, Fantastic, Awesome, Wonderful! loved it loved it loved it!

****3/4 my new MOTY so far


----------



## mateuspfc

2. Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black - ROH *No More Prisoners* - ****1/2
Heh. 

*WWE Unforgiven 2008
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho
****1/2*

Pretty damn overlooked match.


----------



## straightedge015

Agreed about it being overlooked. I thought it was brilliant, personally.


----------



## stinger-splash

Great list Benjo and Watts.

Benjo, where's Joe vs Angle (LD)? My TNA MOTY.


----------



## KingKicks

I didn't enjoy it too much. I thought it was good, just not as great as others thought. Gave it a high ***3/4


----------



## AussieFan

How can i watch some of these matches, i cant find them on Dailymotion or YouTube?


----------



## vivalabrave

Look in the media section.

Indy Media: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-media/

Other Media (Puro): http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-media/


----------



## Goku

Jericho|Shawn Unforgiven - ****1/2*
Joe|Angle LD - ****1/4*

MOTY(s)

Flair|HBK WM - *****1/2+*
Danielson|Hero wXw16 - *****1/2-*
Angle|AJ HJ - *****1/4*


----------



## stinger-splash

I thought you'd rate Angle vs Joe higher, Invincible. For me it's TNA MOTY. Most realistic match ever, both special and awesome. ****1/2.

Flair vs HBK ***** (on the lower end, almost borderline)


----------



## T-C

stinger-splash said:


> I thought you'd rate Angle vs Joe higher, Invincible. For me it's TNA MOTY. *Most realistic match ever*, both special and awesome. ****1/2.


Just no.


----------



## Blasko

T-C said:


> Just no.


 :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick

Main candidates:

WWE - HBK/Flair (****1/2), Edge/Taker HIAC (****1/2)
TNA - Angle/Styles LMS (****1/2), Angle/Joe (****1/4)
ROH - Danielson/McGuinness (****3/4)


----------



## peep4life

Angle/Joe Lockdown was ***1/2 tops for me, a huge disappointment overall.


----------



## Saint Dick

I loved it.


----------



## seabs

*MOTY atm for me would be any one of Danielson/McGuinness 6AS, Strong/Stevens Redefined and HBK/Flair. All ****1/2+ imo.*


----------



## McQueen

T-C said:


> Just no.





-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> :lmao


I laughed as well. I didn't see the match so I yhave no idea if its even good or not but I read a pretty indepth report of it and it sounded like they abandoned the MMA aspect midway through the match to get some pro wrestling spots in.

But i'm sure on the "realism" scale it doesn't touch UWF-i, RINGS or BattleARTS or hell even a Brody/Abdullah brawl.


----------



## Blasko

Or anything Hashimoto or Maeda. 

rit eric?


----------



## McQueen

I'd love to see Maeda mid match shoot on Kurt to shut his ass up.


----------



## Blasko

Current Kurt would cower in fear. 

90s Kurt would start shooting back.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen said:


> I'd love to see Maeda mid match shoot on Kurt to shut his ass up.


I'd just plain love to shoot Kurt.


----------



## AussieFan

Angle/Joe LD ***1/2 - Needed more wrestling towards the end and maybe an extra 5-7 minutes or so with pure wrestling and hard hits.


----------



## -GP-

AussieFan said:


> Angle/Joe LD ***1/2 - Needed more wrestling towards the end and maybe an extra 5-7 minutes or so with pure wrestling and hard hits.


Have it at 4+1/4 because i really liked the first part, but those are my thoughts exactly.
After Joe just goes "fuck this MMA shit" and smashes him on the cage, they should switch to wrestling and get some near falls in.


----------



## watts63

*TNA Victory Road '08*
Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin & Curry Man vs. Masato Yoshino, Milano Collection AT & Puma vs. Averno, Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero vs. Doug Williams, Alex Koslov & Tyson Dux ****1/4

*BJW 5/23/08*
Kengo Mashimo & Madoka vs. MEN's Teioh & Shinobu *****


----------



## McQueen

MEN's Teioh...... and *****!?

Is that your #1 MOTY then Watts? I haven't watched it yet.


----------



## AussieFan

Victory Road Opener, 12 Man Tag - ****1/4

FIP Redefined - Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - ****1/2+


----------



## watts63

McQueen said:


> MEN's Teioh...... and *****!?
> 
> Is that your #1 MOTY then Watts? I haven't watched it yet.


Hell yeah, it's my #1! EVERYONE WATCH IT NOW!

*TNA Victory Road '08*
Christian Cage, AJ Styles & Rhino vs. Kurt Angle, Brother Ray & Devon ****1/2


----------



## AussieFan

*Victory Road Full Metal Mayhem*
****


----------



## McQueen

Of course my file I downloaded for that tag didn't work. :no:

Pretty sure I know where to find it though.


----------



## ADN

Here is my list so far

EDIT: Added Hero/Danielson

*ROH 6th Anniversary Show*
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness - ****1/2-****3/4

*FIP Redefined*
Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - ****1/2-****3/4

*wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament Day 3*
Chris Hero vs Bryan Danielson - ****1/2-****3/4

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*
Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ****1/2-****3/4

*ROH Take No Prisoners*
Nigel McGuiness vs Tyler Black - ****1/2

*ROH Tag Wars 2008*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*
Austin Aries vs Bryan Danielson - ****1/2

*ROH Respect Is Earned II*
Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson vs Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black - ****1/2

*ROH Return Engagement*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs Jay & Mark Briscoe - ****1/2

*WWE WrestleMania XXIV*
Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2

*ROH Supercard of Honor III*
6-Man Tag - ****1/2

*ROH New Horizons 2008*
Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ****1/2

*WWE Summerslam 2008*
Edge vs Undertaker - ****1/2

*ROH Northern Navigation*
Nigel McGuiness vs Kevin Steen - ****1/4

*WWE WrestleMania XXIV*
Edge vs Undertaker - ****1/4

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*
Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli vs Tyler Black - ****1/4

*ROH Fueling The Fire*
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries

*TNA Lockdown 2008*
Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4

*WWE One Night Stand 2008*
Edge vs Undertaker - ****1/4

*ROH Northern Navigation*
Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/4

*ROH Northern Navigation*
Roderick Strong vs Naomichi Marufuji - ****1/4

*TNA Against All Odds*
Christian Cage vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4

*TNA Victory Road 2008*
Elimination Tag - ****1/4

*TNA Lockdown 2008*
Lethal Lockdown - ****1/4

*TNA Hard Justice 2008*
AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4

*WWE No Way Out 2008*
Raw Elimination Chamber - ****1/4


----------



## AussieFan

I have the FIP Redefined Main Event at ****1/2+


----------



## McQueen

That is my MOTY right now, still way behind though.


----------



## Blasko

Hero/Danielson imo


----------



## Caponex75

My straight up match of the years are Strong/Stevens(*****) and the NOAH/Kensuke Office Survival Tag(*****). Loved everything else but I feel these are the best of the year.


----------



## KingKicks

*WWE No Mercy 2008*

*World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels* ****1/2

_The last few minutes were some of the most heart racing, intense minutes i've seen in a match in a long time. My current Number 1 WWE MOTY and Number 2 overall MOTY_


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

The ladder match is definitely up there on my list which I'll eventually have up sometime.

Everyone get the fucking No Mercy DVD when it comes out. Not only was the ladder match fucking awesome, but the HHH vs. Jeff match had some of the best drama I've seen all year.


----------



## Saint Dick

HHH/Jeff - ****
HBK/Jericho - ****


----------



## KingCrash

Y2J/HBK - ****1/4
HHH?Jeff - **** Don't know why everyone's bitching about the ending. It's not like Trips immedately popped up and yelled "See! I told you I was smarter than the druggie!"


----------



## Taroostyles

HHH/Jeff-**** (Still say the finish was totally illogical, but not in the burial type of way some are hinting at. It just didn't make any sense at all to me. Tremendous match tho)

Jericho/HBK-****1/4-****1/2 (Told an incredible story and had a very intense finish, couple of botches but nothing that really takes away from the overall rating.)


----------



## Burning Sword

*WWE No Mercy:*

HHH/Jeff- ****
HBK/Jericho (Ladder)- ****1/4


----------



## AussieFan

Will be downloading NM ASAP

Look forward to it tbh


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Anybody who didn't get the ending to HHH vs. Jeff is, to put it nicely, a dipshit. The ending meant that as great as Jeff is, HHH is just that tad bit much better than him. It means that Jeff is coming closer and closer to reaching the brass ring, but he's just not quite there yet. In addition, with all the abuse Jeff's body took during the match, it only made sense for HHH to win. He has proven that he has the endurance, he has the stamina, and he's a smarter wrestler than Jeff is at this time.

One day, Jeff Hardy will be WWE or World champion. Tonight did more to get him over than his previous shot did back in January.


----------



## Taroostyles

^I get the finish, but in the context of the match itself it was totally illogical.


----------



## ADN

*WWE No Mercy 2008*
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4
Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - ***3/4


----------



## Saint Dick

superdupersonic said:


> Anybody who didn't get the ending to HHH vs. Jeff is, to put it nicely, a dipshit. The ending meant that as great as Jeff is, HHH is just that tad bit much better than him. It means that Jeff is coming closer and closer to reaching the brass ring, but he's just not quite there yet. In addition, with all the abuse Jeff's body took during the match, it only made sense for HHH to win. He has proven that he has the endurance, he has the stamina, and he's a smarter wrestler than Jeff is at this time.
> 
> One day, Jeff Hardy will be WWE or World champion. Tonight did more to get him over than his previous shot did back in January.


Agreed. So many people in the discussion thread said the finish was horrible but I thought it was great given the context of the storyline and it made sense on more than one level. It really put over how close Jeff was that someone as dominant as Triple H would have to resort to a move like that to win. I think the problem most people had was that H had just been hit by the Twist of Fate and the Swanton but I didn't think it was unrealistic because Jeff took some serious punishment in the match and was so exhausted that he wasn't able to turn over and hook the leg, thus allowing the experienced vet to sneak one.


----------



## Derek

Not too mention that Hardy beat Johnny Nitro the EXACT same way a couple years ago.


----------



## sirdilznik

Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - ****
Chris Jericho vs. HBK - ****1/2


----------



## -GP-

HHH vs. Hardy - ****

Jericho vs. HBK - ****1/4-1/2
WWE MOTY up to now imo (with honorary mention to HBK/Flair)


and since we're doing lists (lots of shifting might be done upon second/third viewings especially amongst matches with the same ratings)...



*Kengo Mashimo & Madoka Vs. MEN's Teioh & Shinobu (BJW 23/5/08) ****1/2-****3/4*
*Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW 28/4/08) ****1/2*
*Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Rising Above) ****1/2* 
*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto (BJW 2/1/08) ****1/2*
*Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk ****1/2* 
*Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero (wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2008) ****1/2*
*Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/2* 
*Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/2* 
*Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - NWA World Heavyweight Title Match(ROH Death Before Dishonor VI)****1/2* 
*Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino (ROH DG Challenge II) ****1/2* 
*Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH Respect is Earned II) ****1/2*
*Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black (ROH Take No Prisoners) ****1/2* 
*Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima (NOAH 14/6/08) ****1/2*
*Cage vs. Angle (TNA Against All Odds) ****1/2* 
*Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH World Title) (ROH 6th Anniversary Show) ****1/2*
*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (WWE No Mercy) ****1/4-****1/2*
*B.J. Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - "I Quit" Match (IWA-MS 500th Show) ****1/4-****1/2*
*Dragon Kid, CIMA & Ryo Saito vs. Horiguchi, Doi & Yoshino (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/4-****1/2*
*Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki (ROH 6th Anniversary Show) ****1/4-****1/2*
*Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 3/2) ****1/4-****1/2*
*Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong (FIP Redefined) ****1/4-****1/2*
*Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (TNA Lockdown) ****1/4*
*Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH Take No Prisoners) ****1/4*
*BxB Hulk and Shingo Takagi vs. KENTA and Taiji Ishimori (Dragon Gate - 20/03/08) ****1/4*
*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (ROH Respect is Earned II) ****1/4* 
*Undertaker vs. Edge (WrestleMania 24) ****1/4*
*Briscoes vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (Final Battle 2007) ****1/4*
*Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush (wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2008) ****1/4* 
*A.J. Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW 2/17) ****1/4* 
*CIMA vs Masato Yoshino (Dragon Gate - 20/3/2008) ****1/4*
*Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08) ****-****1/4 *
*Raw Elimination Chamber (No Way Out) ****-****1/4* 
*ΒχΒ Ηulk & Shingo vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH DG Challenge II) ****-****1/4* 
*The Briscoe Brother vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****-****1/4*
*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****-****1/4* 
*Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero vs. Morishima vs. Austin Aries (Final Battle 2007) **** - ****1/4* 
*B.J. Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - "No Ropes, Barbed Wire" Match (IWA-MS April Blood Showers) ****-****1/4*
*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher (FIP World Title) (ROH 6th Anniversary Show) *****
*HHH vs. Jeff Hardy (WWE No Mercy) *****
*The Undertaker vs. Edge (WWE One Night Stand) *****
*Cage vs. Angle (TNA Final Resolution) *****
*Motor City Machine Guns vs. Dick Togo & Hidaka Ikuto (ZERO1-MAX 1/1) *****
*Νο Remorse Corps vs. Erick Stevens, Go Shiozaki & CIMA (ROH DG Challenge II) *****
*Rock n Rave Infection vs. LΑX vs. Motor City Machine guns (Destination X) ***** 
*Lethal Lockdown Match (TNA Lockdown) *****
*Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 24) No rating - more than just a match*


----------



## Taroostyles

Ownage™ said:


> Agreed. So many people in the discussion thread said the finish was horrible but I thought it was great given the context of the storyline and it made sense on more than one level. It really put over how close Jeff was that someone as dominant as Triple H would have to resort to a move like that to win. I think the problem most people had was that H had just been hit by the Twist of Fate and the Swanton but I didn't think it was unrealistic because Jeff took some serious punishment in the match and was so exhausted that he wasn't able to turn over and hook the leg, thus allowing the experienced vet to sneak one.


Yeah see that was my problem with it, just seemed too unrealistic to me. I couldn't care less about the people bitching about HHH burying people or whatever, I just had a hard time buying exactly what you said about the TOF and the Swanton.

However I didn't notice that Jeff didn't hook the leg, that makes it a little better than what I previously had thought. 

Even still, I didn't even lower my rating because of it and at first I really hated the finish. Usually if I hate a finish that much I'll lower it, but that match was fan fucking tastic as far as I'm concerned. 

Hardy's best singles match and one of HHH's better ones in recent memory, he did play the veteran champion to a tee.


----------



## Clique

*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match)*

The start of the match didn't feel all too right for me but I think HBK/Jericho told the story of their feud by the end of the match which a blow off match should do. Shawn and Jericho did pretty much everything they needed to do psychology-wise - Jericho exploited the eye and bicep injuries, HBK worked over Jericho's leg to prevent him from climbing the ladder, etc. 

The announce table spot was cool and the ending even better. Cade's interferance I didn't like much and felt they could have done without him. Shawn getting crazy with beating Jericho with the Ladder brought much more intensity to the match which I loved. I also like WWE going in the more 'hard-way' avenue as far as blood is concerned. I guess they don't need a blade job ever month- let's fuck 'em up for real. Jericho got a good ass whipping!

WWE have definitely been going for the unique finishes in an attempt to build as much drama possible. The tug of war over the belt was tremendous.

***** 1/4*


----------



## KingKicks

Just rewatched the final 2 matches. Y2J/HBK stays at ****1/2 but Hardy/HHH goes up to ****. Enjoyed it alot more this time around.


----------



## peep4life

****1/4 for the Ladder match. Great match, the WWE has been on a roll this year with PPV matches, the story lines are a whole other story though.


----------



## seabs

*Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy 2008*
_****+_

*Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Ladder Match - No Mercy 2008*
_****1/2_


----------



## andremt9

*CHIKARA Style and Substance *

Claudio Castagnoli vs. Brodie Lee - Steel Cage Match 
*Rating:**** *


----------



## stinger-splash

WWE MOTY
1) HBK vs Flair (Mania)*****
2) Edge vs Taker (Mania) ****1/4
3) MITB IV (Mania) ****+
4) Edge vs Taker (Summerslam) ****

Currently watching the No Mercy Ladder match

TNA MOTY
1) Angle vs Joe (Lockdown) ****1/2
2) Angle vs AJ (Hard Justice) ****1/2
3) Angle vs Christian (AAO) ****1/4
4) 12-man Elimination Tag (VR) ****1/4
5) Kong vs Gail (FR) ****


----------



## Clique

*Top 10 WWE Matches *

1. Edge/Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - SummerSlam

2. Edge/Undertaker - WrestleMania 24

3. Ric Flair/Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 24

4. Chris Jericho/Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match) - No Mercy

5. Edge/Undertaker (Tables, Ladders & Chairs) - One Night Stand

6. Punk/Jericho/Benjamin/MVP/Morrison/Kennedy/Carlito (MITB IV) - WrestleMania 24

7. Both Smackdown and Raw Elimination Chamber Matches - No Way Out

8. Shawn Michaels/Chris Jericho - Judgement Day

9. Shawn Michaels/Chris Jericho ("Un-sunctioned" Match) - Unforgiven

10. Triple H/Jeff Hardy - No Mercy


*Best TNA match* I've seen this year is Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe (Cage Match) from Lockdown.


----------



## -Mystery-

Jericho/Michaels from No Mercy review...

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/6355132-post12398.html


----------



## Caponex75

^Answer your PMs

*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens in a Dog Collar Match*
I, for one, would like to say that I will forever will miss heel Roderick Strong. Why? Because he actually has attitude unlike face Strong and is very intense...plus his one liners made me chuckle in this match. Besides that this is a very awesome match but very few chops to my surprise. Strong is pretty much a house of anger and you see him spitting and yelling at Stevens throughout the match up as well as fucking with anyone that's breathing near him. Stevens takes one HELL of a beating and even takes a brutal conchaairto that gets no reaction(Boo you live fans). They also seemingly played off their LMS match with Stevens killin Strong before Strong ended up going crazy and killing him. The post match shit is great and the heels actually feel like......HEELS!~! Don't like the Strong/Stevens respect part and would of liked if they went Kingston/Hero with their rivalry but guess Strong's pride and anger left him as soon as the three count hit. Need to give this a re-watch but ****1/4


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

My MOTY is Shawn/Jericho. Not because it's a ton of stars or anything typically "smarky" like that, but because, well, I'll just copy and paste what I said last night:

HBK/Jericho... yeah, so, this is my match of the year. It may not technically be the best match to happen this year, but for me, its biggest strength isn't that it used excellent psychology, had great bumps, told a great story, was structured perfectly, had a flawless pace, or anything else that can be described as being part of a "top tier" wrestling match's "mechanics"... the reason is: the fact that the the last 5 minutes made me feel like I used to feel when watching a wrestling match involving my favourite wrestler, that could care less about psychology, storytelling, selling, and any of the stuff a "smart" fan may think of -- see: stupified mark that's so immersed in something that's completely fake while DESPERATE for the 45 year old Christian to grab a shiny belt from a hook, despite the fact I'd come across as mentally challenged to a stranger as a result -- puts this above and beyond everything else I've seen this year - including his match against a certain Ric Flair, which, for all intents and purposes, was pretty decent too, I guess. I'm not going to talk about its psychology, its storytelling, its pace, its structure, so on and so on, because frankly, this wasn't just a wrestling match to me - it was a motherfucking time machine that took me back to being a giddy child that nothing in hindsight should have the ability to do. Will its effect ware off when I watch it again? I'm sure it will, but I intend to wait as long as I can before watching it again just to savour the fucking awesomeness it provided me. I'm not going to give this any star rating, ninja star, snowflake, whatever you call it... and if you don't understand why, then you've completely failed to grasp everything that I've just said.


----------



## peep4life

That's cool Andy ^^^, probably how I would have felt if I had watched the match live and not known the results beforehand. Sometimes you have to forget about storytelling and psychology and watch wrestling for the reasons we watched it as a child, for that excitement of not knowing who is gonna win and what is gonna happen next.


----------



## KingKicks

Andy3000 said:


> My MOTY is Shawn/Jericho. Not because it's a ton of stars or anything typically "smarky" like that, but because, well, I'll just copy and paste what I said last night:
> 
> HBK/Jericho... yeah, so, this is my match of the year. It may not technically be the best match to happen this year, but for me, its biggest strength isn't that it used excellent psychology, had great bumps, told a great story, was structured perfectly, had a flawless pace, or anything else that can be described as being part of a "top tier" wrestling match's "mechanics"... the reason is: the fact that the the last 5 minutes made me feel like I used to feel when watching a wrestling match involving my favourite wrestler, that could care less about psychology, storytelling, selling, and any of the stuff a "smart" fan may think of -- see: stupified mark that's so immersed in something that's completely fake while DESPERATE for the 45 year old Christian to grab a shiny belt from a hook, despite the fact I'd come across as mentally challenged to a stranger as a result -- puts this above and beyond everything else I've seen this year - including his match against a certain Ric Flair, which, for all intents and purposes, was pretty decent too, I guess. I'm not going to talk about its psychology, its storytelling, its pace, its structure, so on and so on, because frankly, this wasn't just a wrestling match to me - it was a motherfucking time machine that took me back to being a giddy child that nothing in hindsight should have the ability to do. Will its effect ware off when I watch it again? I'm sure it will, but I intend to wait as long as I can before watching it again just to savour the fucking awesomeness it provided me. I'm not going to give this any star rating, ninja star, snowflake, whatever you call it... and if you don't understand why, then you've completely failed to grasp everything that I've just said.


My exact thoughts on the match except i was rooting for Jericho . The last 5 minutes actually had my heart racing, which is something that hasn't happened to me for any match since Wrestlemania X7.

I think i'm going to watch HBK/Y2J for a 3rd time later tonight.


----------



## -GP-

What Andy described is basically the way i rate matches most of the time...

A mate asked me today why i liked the ladder match more than HHH/Hardy and my answer - after going through some storytelling comments to maintain my indy troll reputation - was that, end of the day, the ladder match made me sit closer to the edge of my seat and put a bigger stupid grin on my face than the other one.
Simple.


----------



## Sheva7

The Ladder match just had that special feeling, where you could feel the hatred readiating off the t.v screen, the storytelling and the match psychology was wonderful. I'm not sure whether it the MOTY so far, but it's definitly a MOTYC. I want to watch it once more before I give it a stars rating though.


----------



## Saint Dick

Andy3000 said:


> My MOTY is Shawn/Jericho. Not because it's a ton of stars or anything typically "smarky" like that, but because, well, I'll just copy and paste what I said last night:
> 
> HBK/Jericho... yeah, so, this is my match of the year. It may not technically be the best match to happen this year, but for me, its biggest strength isn't that it used excellent psychology, had great bumps, told a great story, was structured perfectly, had a flawless pace, or anything else that can be described as being part of a "top tier" wrestling match's "mechanics"... the reason is: the fact that the the last 5 minutes made me feel like I used to feel when watching a wrestling match involving my favourite wrestler, that could care less about psychology, storytelling, selling, and any of the stuff a "smart" fan may think of -- see: stupified mark that's so immersed in something that's completely fake while DESPERATE for the 45 year old Christian to grab a shiny belt from a hook, despite the fact I'd come across as mentally challenged to a stranger as a result -- puts this above and beyond everything else I've seen this year - including his match against a certain Ric Flair, which, for all intents and purposes, was pretty decent too, I guess. I'm not going to talk about its psychology, its storytelling, its pace, its structure, so on and so on, because frankly, this wasn't just a wrestling match to me - it was a motherfucking time machine that took me back to being a giddy child that nothing in hindsight should have the ability to do. Will its effect ware off when I watch it again? I'm sure it will, but I intend to wait as long as I can before watching it again just to savour the fucking awesomeness it provided me. I'm not going to give this any star rating, ninja star, snowflake, whatever you call it... and if you don't understand why, then you've completely failed to grasp everything that I've just said.


:ns

Star rating now.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Ownage™ said:


> Agreed. So many people in the discussion thread said the finish was horrible but I thought it was great given the context of the storyline and it made sense on more than one level. It really put over how close Jeff was that someone as dominant as Triple H would have to resort to a move like that to win. I think the problem most people had was that H had just been hit by the Twist of Fate and the Swanton but I didn't think it was unrealistic because Jeff took some serious punishment in the match and was so exhausted that he wasn't able to turn over and hook the leg, thus allowing the experienced vet to sneak one.


I guarantee that if the match had been Jericho vs. Jeff and it went down the same way, there wouldn't be insipid complaints about Jeff being BERRIED~!


----------



## watts63

*CMLL 7/27/08*
Volador Jr., Averno, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Shocker, Hector Garza, Dr. Wagner Jr. & Dos Caras Jr vs. Sonjay Dutt, AJ Styles, Alex Koslov, Mark Jindrak, Johnny Devine, Jay Lethal, Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****-****1/4


----------



## -GP-

superdupersonic said:


> I guarantee that if the match had been Jericho vs. Jeff and it went down the same way, there wouldn't be insipid complaints about Jeff being BERRIED~!


That's because the IWC is SMARTENED UP~! and knows all about HHH's BACKSTAGE POLITICS~!

In all seriousness, Trips has done his fair share of burrying, but he's been putting Jeff over all the time since the Elimination Chamber when he kicked out of a Pedigree with no cover delay. 
Don't think i can remember the last guy to do that.
Unfortunately people think that "putting over" only means "getting pinned by"...


----------



## stinger-splash

*Y2J Chris Jericho(c) vs ‘The Heartbreak Kid’ Shawn Michaels*


_Ladder Match for the World Heavyweight Championship_

WWE No Mercy 2008


Apart from WM and classic matches, I don’t watch any WWE. This feud however made me watch RAW every Monday (or at least the segments between these two). The heat in this feud was amazing and especially Jericho has been awesome in his heel role. For the first time since WM I was really looking forward to see another WWE match. Ladder matches are one of my favorite gimmick matches and these two had some of the best ladder matches ever. A classic in the making?

The match had a quick start with both men going at eachother. After the first fury was unleashed, Jericho opened the match with a high risk move where he took HBK to the outside. Shortly after, he brought the ladder into play and the match became awesome. I loved when HBK jumped on the ladder on did a cross body on Jericho.

The match became brutal with stiff ladder shots where both man seriously damaged eachother. I marked when out of nowhere Jericho stamped on the ladder out of frustration and the ladder splashed in HBK’s face. Storytelling has been awesome so far. Once HBK took control he decided to further damage Jericho instead of climbing the ladder. After he delivered some brutal ladder shots to Jericho, he set him on top of the ladder near the announce table where they did a cool but strange move and both fell through the table. Hard landing for both.

Once back in the ring, Jericho kicked the ladder on Michaels in the corner. Strange selling from Y2J who climbed the ladder and tried to superplex Michaels. Like everyone could feel coming, HBK pushed the ladder away and Y2J fell. Now Chris pulls the ladder over him and HBK elbow drops the ladder . Logic please.

After this ugly part, they made up for it in the 5 final minutes. It truly was breathtaking with back and forth all the time and suspense in the air. Cade interference didn’t really hurt the match, but it didn’t add something neither. It was meh. The finishing sequence was awesome with both man pulling on the belt and HBK accidentally giving himself a headbutt. 

Overall not as fantastic as I thought it would be, but still an amazing ladder match. The storytelling was great and so was the action. I really enjoyed watching this match.. They kept a high pace during the entire match and worked fucking hard. 

Too bad there were some little ugly moments as well. I already noticed some like the predictable bump where HBK pushed Jericho from the ladder and HBK’s elbow drop on the ladder. I thought Jericho’s selling was pretty bad at some points. Like when HBK smashed the ladder in his face (he was standing forever with the ladder just under his face) and after the table bump. He was crawling and could barely stand and suddenly he was super fit and dropkicked HBK. 
Apart from these smaller remarks, I enjoyed everything like I said. Great performance, great ladder match.

*Rating: *****




That would make my WWE MOTY list:

1) Flair vs HBK *****
2) Taker vs Edge (WM) ****1/4
3) HBK vs Y2J ****
4) MITB IV ****
5) Taker vs Edge (HIAC) ****


----------



## Goku

I agree with everything that Andy said. Jericho|Shawn Ladder match is my MOTY. I'll even give it a rating, snowflakes, NINJA STARZ~!, star rating, asterisks. Five synonyms? Yeah, *******


----------



## -Mystery-

5 seems a bit high despite me giving it ****3/4. Jericho's leg selling was far too spotty for me to give it the full 5.


----------



## Goku

Oh, okay...


----------



## -Mystery-

Won't argue with 5 stars though because the flaws in the match are limited. Still only number 2 overall for me.


----------



## Goku

1 of my only five 5 star matches so I take it pretty srsly


----------



## Taroostyles

^I thought you only had like 2 matches at 5*, atleast the other day that's what I saw.

Anyway, definitely wouldn't go higher than ****1/2 at most for HBK/Jericho. Still an incredible match, probably my favorite WWE match all year to this point.


----------



## Goku

Yeah, I had 2 matches then. Went up to five quite fast

Austin|Bret WM13
Flair|Steamboat WW89 (Waiting to see which of the trilogy was the best so that could be pushed up to five)
Jericho|Shawn NM08 (Hadn't seen it then)
xXx|AMW TP04
Flair|Shawn WMXXIV (Was on the fence with this then)


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

You should see Jumbo vs. Misawa from June 1990. I've seen very little puro but that is definitely the best I've seen of it.


----------



## antoniomare007

superdupersonic said:


> You should see Jumbo vs. Misawa from June 1990. I've seen very little puro but that is definitely the best I've seen of it.


:agree:


Liger vs Sano (Jan. 1990) is another one that's just a perfect match


----------



## Goku

Jumbo vs. Misawa I - ****3/4*
Jumbo vs. Misawa II - *****1/4*

So ya, 

Best puro match I've seen is the 6/9/95 match b/w Kawada and Taue against Kobashi and Misawa


----------



## gusbarba

watts63 said:


> *CMLL 7/27/08*
> Volador Jr., Averno, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Shocker, Hector Garza, Dr. Wagner Jr. & Dos Caras Jr vs. Sonjay Dutt, AJ Styles, Alex Koslov, Mark Jindrak, Johnny Devine, Jay Lethal, Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley ****-****1/4


was a great/fun match


----------



## peep4life

Invincible said:


> Jumbo vs. Misawa I - ****3/4*
> Jumbo vs. Misawa II - *****1/4*
> 
> So ya,
> 
> Best puro match I've seen is the 6/9/95 match b/w Kawada and Taue against Kobashi and Misawa


But you don't have it at five stars, that match owned. 

Jericho's leg selling and his pulling of the ladder on top of himself, then HBK missing said ladder with elbow drop really took away from the match to me. ****1/4 is the highest I'm going.


----------



## - Styles -

*No Mercy 2008*
Jericho vs Hbk - *****1/4*

Just got done watching the ppv, the last 2 matches were fantastic with HHH/Hardy just below ****. Ladder match was great stuff, the ending with the tug of war was absolutely brilliant. I would've liked a few more big spots but that's just me. Still though another great match to add to this amazing feud.


----------



## stinger-splash

peep4life said:


> But you don't have it at five stars, that match owned.
> 
> Jericho's leg selling and his pulling of the ladder on top of himself, then HBK missing said ladder with elbow drop really took away from the match to me. ****1/4 is the highest I'm going.


Agree. Jeircho's selling was really bad at points. Other things that held my rating down

- Jericho pulling the ladder on himself
- HBK elbow dropping the ladder
- The spot were HBK pushed Jericho and the ladder away in the corner was soo predictable
- A mistiming when HBK touched the gold and Jericho was still not in the ring

Other than that it was an amzing match. A very, very high ****


----------



## Saint Dick

HBK/Jericho ladder doesn't even break my WWE top 5.


----------



## Clique

I have it at #4.


----------



## Goku

I actually have that 6/9/95 at *****3/4+*. Won't go higher, I've actually studied everything going into that match to understand everything (thanks to McQueen)

This year my MOTY is Jericho|Shawn NM followed closely by Shawn|Flair WM and maybe Danielson|Hero


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

*Edge vs. The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell), Summerslam 2008:* ****1/4.

Edge put on a great show to me with his character here. The facial expressions on him before the start of the match with all the smiles & weird looks was a cool touch and there were just parts of the match where Edge seem to be so aggressive attacking. It convince me on the effort he put into changing his character for the match weeks before. I think Taker and Edge worked a good enough match like usual, as it showed in some of their earlier PPV matches before this one that happen in the year. Not to discredit Taker for what he done but Edge's performance here might make me like this more then any other match of theirs.

**** down for Batista/Cena on the same show. They put on very good action for my money. Then you have some of the good atmosphere that Cena matches get well often, the match was better then anything that I predicted.


----------



## Sheva7

Am i the only person who feels that a lot of people overate HBK/Flair?


----------



## stinger-splash

Sheva7 said:


> Am i the only person who feels that a lot of people overate HBK/Flair?


I don't think this match is overrated, it was flatout classic. Not THE greatest ever, but five stars for me. Failed bridge is the only bad thing in this match. Psychology and storytelling are amazing.


----------



## Recall

stinger-splash said:


> I don't think this match is overrated, it was flatout classic. *Not THE greatest ever, but five stars for me. *Failed bridge is the only bad thing in this match. Psychology and storytelling are amazing.


But thats what ***** means, its one of the greatest matches ever. Thats why ***** matches are genuinely far and few between.


----------



## stinger-splash

Recall said:


> But thats what ***** means, its one of the greatest matches ever. Thats why ***** matches are genuinely far and few between.


That why it put it in capitals. It's the lowest on my five star list, but it's still gets the full 5 for me. One of the greatest ever, but not THE greatest ever.


----------



## TheAce

Alright here's mine so far this year




1)Bryan Danielson Vs Tyler Black (ROH PPV New Horizons) **** 3/4
2)KENTA vs Marufuji (AJPW Jr Vs GHC Jr) ****1/2
3)Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Rising Above) ****1/2
4)Steenerico vs. Shingo Takagi and BxB Hulk (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/2
5)Tyler Black Vs Claudio Castagnoli Vs Bryan Danielson Vs Nigel McGuiness (ROH Death Before 
Dishonor VI)****1/2
6)Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 24) **** 1/2
7)Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (ROH Supercard of Honor III)****1/2
8)Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - NWA World Heavyweight Title Match(ROH Death Before Dishonor VI)****1/2
9)Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino (ROH DG Challenge II) ****1/2
10)Masato Tanaka Vs Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 4/13/08) ****1/4



The others

-BxB Hulk Vs Shingo (Dragon Gate 07/27/08) ****1/4
-Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH World Title) (ROH 6th Anniversary Show) ****1/4
-Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/4
-Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson vs. MCMG's (ROH Fueling the Fire) **** 1/4
-Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black (ROH Take No Prisoners) ****1/4
-Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima (NOAH 14/6/08) ****1/4
-Nakajima & Marufuji Vs KENTA & Ibushi (ROH 14/09/08) ****1/4
-Dragon Kid, CIMA & Ryo Saito vs. Horiguchi, Doi & Yoshino (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****1/4
-Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens (ROH Respect is Earned II) ****1/4
-The Briscoe Brothers Vs. Marufuji & Suguira (NOAH 03/02/08) ****1/4
-Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong (FIP Redefined) ****1/4
-Steenerico & Susumu Yokosuka Vs The Young Bucks & PAC (PWG ASW 7) ****1/4
-Kurt Angle Vs AJ Styles (TNA Hard Justice) **** 1/4
-BxB Hulk and Shingo Takagi vs. KENTA and Taiji Ishimori (Dragon Gate - 20/03/08) ****1/4
-Undertaker vs. Edge (WrestleMania 24) ****1/4
-A.J. Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW 2/17) ****1/4
-CIMA vs Masato Yoshino (Dragon Gate - 20/3/2008) ****1/4
-Go Shiozaki Vs Marufuji (ROH Death Before Dishonor VI)****1/4
-The Briscoe Brothers Vs Kota Ibushi & Katsuhiko Nakajima (NOAH NTV Cup) **** 1/4
-El Generico Vs Nigel McGuiness (ROH Age of Insanity) ****
-Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (ZERO1-MAX Genesis '08) ****
-ΒχΒ Ηulk & Shingo vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH DG Challenge II) ****
-The Briscoe Brother vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (ROH Supercard of Honor III) ****
-Motor City Machine Guns vs. Dick Togo & Hidaka Ikuto (ZERO1-MAX 1/1) ****
-Brodie Lee Vs Claudio Castagnoli (Chikara Style and Substance) ****
-Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (WWE No Mercy) ****
-Briscoes vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black (Final Battle 2007) ****
-Steen Vs Nigel McGuinness (ROH Northern Navigation) ****
-MCMG's Vs Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi (TNA Impact)****


----------



## KingKicks

*PWG DDT 4 2008 Night Two
Roderick Strong and Jack Evans vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico* ****-****1/4


----------



## Recall

Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright (DBD6) ****1/4


----------



## seabs

*Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ROH Take No Prisoners*
_****1/4_

*Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ROH World Championship - ROH Take No Prisoners*
_****1/4-1/2_


----------



## New Blood

1. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XXIV **** 3/4
2. Undertaker vs. Edge at SummerSlam 2008 **** 3/4
3. Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasake & Katsuhiko Nakajima in Pro-Wrestling NOAH **** 3/4
4. Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki at PWG's All Star Weekend VI Night 1 **** 1/2
5. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels at No Mercy 2008 **** 1/2
6. Typhoon vs. Muscle Outlawz at Supercard of Honor III **** 1/2
7. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson at The Sixth Anniversary Show **** 1/2
8. Kengo Mashimo & Madoka vs. MEN's Teioh & Shinobu in BJW **** 1/2
9. Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black at New Horizons **** 1/2
10. AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle at Hard Justice 2008 **** 1/2


----------



## Vuchato

Pearce vs. Albright at DBDVI-***3/4

it was solid, but I didn't really get into it.


----------



## AussieFan

HBK/Jericho ****1/4+

A few flaws like the botches Michaels crossbody, HBK Elbow Drop missing the ladder, The Headbutt finish (AGAIN!) and Jericho pulling the ladder over him.. WTF


----------



## Saint Dick

WWE:

1. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
2. Edge vs Undertaker - SummerSlam - ****1/2
3. Edge vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
4. Raw's Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****1/4
5. Triple H vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
6. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - No Mercy - ****1/4
7. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy - ****
8. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Judgment Day - ****
9. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven - ****
10. Money In The Bank IV - WrestleMania 24 - ****


----------



## seabs

*ROH Supercard Of Honour III*

*Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP World Championship*
_****_

*Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black - Relaxed Rules*
_****+_

*BxB Hulk and Shingo vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen *
_****1/4+_

*Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH World Championship *
_****1/2_

*CIMA, Dragon Kid and Ryo Saito vs. Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi and Genki Horiguchi *
_****1/4+_


----------



## Vuchato

Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson-New Horizons-****1/4


----------



## Blasko

Kensuke Office vs. BURNING, 9/17/08.

*N/R*

I have trouble rating mutli man matches. But, don't let the N/R fool you. It's pretty MUST WATCH written all over it. The last 15 minutes are incredible, Nakajima/KENTA REALLY mix well.


----------



## Derek

I agree, as I found it hard to rate, but the match is awesome, for multiple reasons:

1. Young guys wanting to show what they can do.
2. KENTA/Nakajima, you really can't go wrong when these two are in the ring. Kicks that are stiffer than a 16 year old virgin that discovered a peep hole into the girls locker room.
3. Really interesting format, I thought it worked out well.
4. Kensuke and Kobashi. 'nuff said.


----------



## Taroostyles

Jarrett/Angle-****
Sting/Joe-****

I know everyone and their grandmother here is gonna hate the finish, but I don't care that match can't be denied. What they did the first 10-15 minutes was incredible, Joe's balcony dive was one of the illest things I've ever seen in wrestling. EVER. 

Couple other matches in the ***1/2-***3/4 range from this show as well. Gonna rewatch sometime soon, but both of these matches owned.


----------



## andremt9

Jeff Jarrett vs. Kurt Angle - **** + 1/4*
Monster's Ball - ****
Sting vs. Samoa Joe - *** 3/4
(just because of that finish)


----------



## peep4life

I'll go ***1/2 for Joe/Sting and thats the best I got from BFG. Angle/JJ is not more than ***1/4 same with three way and terrordome.


----------



## sirdilznik

I have *Angle vs. Double J at ****1/4* - Really awesome old school type match. Kurt is the fucking man and Jarrett didn't look rusty at all either.

I had *Joe vs. Sting at ***3/4* - Really, really good but not a MOTY candidate. The Joe dropkick onto the concrete steps was just fucking insane.

*Steel Asylum ***3/4 - ***** - Yeah it was just a spot-fest, but damn, what a spot fest! The Super Rana, Frog Splash. Johnny Devine just about *killing* Jimmy Rave with a Divine Driver then hitting 2 more spectacular moves. Lethal and Dutt brawling while hanging upside down. Way too many more crazy moves to mention.


----------



## Alim

Sting/Joe - ******
Angle/Jarrett - *****1/4*


----------



## ADN

*TNA Bound For Glory 2008*
Monster's Ball - ****-****1/4
Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett - ****-****1/4
Sting vs Samoa Joe - ***1/2


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

I do have Sting vs. Joe & Angle vs. Jarrett down at ***1/2. Monster's Ball was some wild fun for what it was on the show. But in reality none of those matches for me on that BGF show were even close to being anything above or at four stars. 

Some good matches but nothing that really went to stand out being that great, imo.


----------



## Blasko

Anyone want to make bets how long Sting will hold the title this time?

A month? A week? Till Tuesday?


----------



## Namek

^^^
Remember Live Impact in Vegas in two weeks, could see something there


----------



## Blasko

Sting gets stripped from the title because of the SWERVED finish. 

I wonder were I've read that before...?


----------



## EffectRaven

Sting vs. Joe was no more than ***1/2 for me

Monster's Ball *****1/4*
Angle vs. Jarrett ******
Cage vs. Styles vs. Booker ****** 

I may have overrated the three way but I enjoyed more than any match on the card


----------



## KingCrash

*Dragon Gate 8/28*
Shingo Takagi & Dragon Kid vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - ****1/4

*TNA Bound For Glory*
Jeff Jarrett vs. Kurt Angle - ****


----------



## - Styles -

*BFG 2008*
*Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett - ****1/4*
How people can still hate on Kurt is beyond me.


----------



## seabs

*Jarret/Angle - BFG*
_****

Anything else on the show is below ***1/2. AussieFan deserves some embarassment for giving Joe/Sting ****3/4._


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I would never ever go that high on it, but I did like it more than ***1/2. Same with Monsters Ball and Steel Asylum as well. (***3/4)

The 3 way was ***1/2 tho.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Alright, so... I'm so far out of the loop this year with puro that it's not funny! I've seen everything from January to April 28th, but from then on... nothin'. At all.

So, does any kind soul wish to enlighten me and tell me what I should check out? I've got a good idea, but booze and painkillers have fucked with my head so much that I'm probably way off anyway.


----------



## -Mystery-

Pretty much anything involving Nakajima or Sasaki as far as NOAH is concerned.


----------



## Blasko

Danielson/Hero wXw
BURNING vs. K Office

Those are pretty much the 'must watches' for this year.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Any Japanese indies produce anything special?


----------



## Blasko

BJW, duh.


----------



## casper-21

Andy3000 said:


> Any Japanese indies produce anything special?


K-Dojo - Strongest-K Tournament Final:

Kengo Mashimo vs MADOKA



El Dorado - UWA Tag Title:

NOSAWA & MAZADA vs Kota Ibushi & Kagetora


----------



## antoniomare007

Summer Adventure Tag League II - Final

Speed Muscle vs Dragon Kid & Shingo.


entertaining as fuck. i was missing this kind of fun sprints from Dragon Gate


----------



## Blasko

Mammoth Sasaki and Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Jun Kasai and Jaki Numazawa

***** 1/4-1/2*

Big Japan has been busting out amazing tags all year long. They're moving up on being my favorite fed this year alone. Could have been a full **** 1/2, but some sloppy moments take it down.


----------



## McQueen

Andy3000 said:


> Any Japanese indies produce anything special?


Masato Tanaka has had some real spectacular matches with Daisuke Sekimoto and a great one with Koji Kanemoto if you haven't seen them Andy.


----------



## Daredevil Jeff

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> Danielson/Hero wXw


You still have it at *****'s?

I've got it at **** 3/4.


----------



## Blasko

Yes, yes I do.


----------



## New Blood

Last match:
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero at wXw's 2008 16 Carrot Gold Tournament Day 3 **** 1/4
Burning vs. Kensuke Office *****


----------



## peep4life

ROH Fueling the Fire- Machine Guns vs Team Work
****1/2


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

McQueen said:


> Masato Tanaka has had some real spectacular matches with Daisuke Sekimoto and a great one with Koji Kanemoto if you haven't seen them Andy.


Yeah, I've seen up to April 28th, and the Seki/Tanaka matches were pretty awesome. Only managed to get through half of the Koji match, though. Not because it was bad or anything, but because I had to go to work .

I need to check it out again.


----------



## MrPaiMei

It's easily in my top 10 right now, match is NOT getting enough talk IMO.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

The Koji/Tanaka match, Jake?


----------



## MrPaiMei

Ya. Just a batshit insane brawl melted into the Tanaka bigmove style. Must see, man. Going to watch Nagata/Tanaka now, will update...


----------



## McQueen

Kanemoto is such an awesome worker with Heavyweights, he doesn't get enough credit for it. His IWGP match last year with Tanahashi was brilliant.


----------



## Classless

Heh im still running with Angle/Styles Hard Justice as my MOTY American mainstreem.


----------



## stinger-splash

slammer08 said:


> Heh im still running with Angle/Styles Hard Justice as my MOTY American mainstreem.


I have it at ****1/2 and it's #2 on my MOTY list after Flair vs HBK (*****).


----------



## Clique

Angle/Samoa Joe from Lockdown is my TNA MOTY with Angle/Styles LMS coming in second. Both ***** 1/4*


----------



## Classless

I have Angle/Joe at ****, second or third best TNA match is year.
WWE MOTY is either Edge/Taker WM or HIAC.


----------



## peep4life

Got a new match of the year for me,
Kensuke Office 8/17/08
Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara ****3/4-*****
Epic, awesome match from start to finish. This one is gonna be tough to beat for MOTY.


----------



## -GP-

Need to get to that match one of these days...i have it, i just haven't gotten to it yet

Speaking of getting to long overdue stuff:

*Danielson/Black - New Horizons*
****1/2

from the same show Nigel/Claudio gets 4* as well.


----------



## mateuspfc

*Kensuke Office 8/17/08
Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara
******

Ladies and... well, ladies, THIS is your match of the year. Wall to wall action and... damn, just watch this, because it has some crazy shit. Seriously.

P.S.: I hope KENTA gets named the '08 WOTY before he dies, because wrestle Maru, Nakajima and Sasaki on a regular basis doesn't do any goods for him. Anyway, he has been having an spectacular year, and, to me, after the inevitable Sasaki-Kobashi II clash, KENTA should get the next shot at the GHC title, because if his time isn't now, then I don't know when it's going to be.


----------



## casper-21

Kensuke Office 8/17/08
Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara ****


DDT 31/08/08
KO-D Opernweight Title: Dick Togo vs Kota Ibushi ****


FIP In Full Force
FIP Title: Roderick Strong vs Jerry Lynn vs Austin Aries ****


JAPW Full F'n Forse
JAPW Title: Kenny Omega vs Danny Demanto **** 1/4


----------



## KingCrash

*NJPW - Destruction 2008*
*Masato Tanaka vs. Yuji Nagata - **** - ****1/4*


----------



## Interjestakostas

Anyone got a link to Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara


----------



## mateuspfc

Here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AJU8ZPR


----------



## vivalabrave

Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara KO 8/17 - ****1/2

The last 15 minutes were magic. KENTA is an angry little fucker. Currently #2 in my MOTY behind Nigel/Dragon 6AS. Just epic stuff.


----------



## seabs

*Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara - Kensuke Office 8/17/08*
_****1/2+

Not 5* material imo but still a definite contender for MOTY. Same rating as Strong/Stevens, HBK/Flair and Danielson/McGuinness. None higher tahn them._


----------



## Cage21

Fire Ant/Vin Gerard from YLC 6: N3

Nothing this year tells a better story in the ring.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW

*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match), No Mercy 2008:* ****1/2.

I think I'd have it now above the Judgment Day match from months ago and I got that at the same rating. Michaels was just so fun in this, I thought when it actually looked like he didn't give a crap when he went to hurt Jericho. Throwing the ladder on him, the crazy table spot and the finish was more cool then I expected it to be for a ladder match. They did a superb job with this.


----------



## TheAce

> Ya. Just a batshit insane brawl melted into the Tanaka bigmove style. Must see, man.


When I saw this match earlier this year all I could wonder was why more Puro fans weren't taking about Tanaka, of the stuff of his I've seen this years I lvoe all of it and I've only seen 3 singles matches of his from his year.


----------



## Y²

Burning vs KO ****1/2

Really good match, solid beginning with a few nice twists with an epic finish. KENTA and Nakajima were each on their A Game. Match of the Year atm.


----------



## dragonkid

Has anyone seen KENTA vs. danielson for the ghc junior title yet and if so could post a link. I really, REALLY want to see it.


----------



## Saint Dick

I don't think a link exists. I'd love to be corrected though.


----------



## casper-21

ZERO-1 Fire Festival 27.07.08:

Masato Tanaka vs Manabu Nakanishi ****1/4 or ****1/2


----------



## Recall

dragonkid said:


> Has anyone seen KENTA vs. danielson for the ghc junior title yet and if so could post a link. I really, REALLY want to see it.



the match or the event it was on wasnt taped. approx 2 mins worth of footage will be on ntv at some time...thats it


----------



## MrPaiMei

Nah dawg, I told you this, it will air in full on IWTV. Just like Kanemaru/Suzuki vs. KENTaiji.


----------



## Maxx Hero

I just hope PaiMei is right as that match will be legit.


----------



## Bubz

Just watched Burning vs Kensuke Office...AWESOME! the last 10 - 15 minutes were insane! KENTA and Nakajima are great. ****3/4 for me and my MOTY along with Dragon vs Tyler from New Horizons


----------



## watts63

*EWF Covina Classic 2008*
Scorpio Sky vs. Ryan Taylor ****1/2

*EWF Old Town Showdown*
Scorpio Sky vs. Joey Ryan ****


----------



## seabs

*Kensuke Sasaki vs Naomichi Marufuji - Kensuke Office 13.06.2008*
_***3/4_


----------



## Saint Dick

Burning vs Kensuke Office - ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## burzi

Where i can download matches on this site?


----------



## Groovemachine

Burning vs Kensuke Office - ****1/2

Definitely an awesome match, although I didn't think it was quite as phenomenal as others have here. The Kenta-Nakajima exchanges were the highlight of the match, and I was surprised at how physical Kobashi got. I've only seen a select few of his matches since his return, and it seemed to me he was (understandably) holding back a bit, taking more of a back seat. Not so here, we saw the Kobashi of old. Great stuff.


----------



## seabs

burzi said:


> Where i can download matches on this site?


*http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrestling-multimedia/

You'll need 25 posts though.*


----------



## watts63

*EWF International Incident*
Liger Rivera & TJ Perkins vs. Dan Kobrick & Terex ****


----------



## stinger-splash

After catching up with some WWE MOTYC's here is my new Top 10 (TNA and WWE only)

1) Flair vs HBK (WM) *****
2) AJ vs Angle (HJ) ****1/2
3) Joe vs Angle (LD) ****1/2
4) Edge vs Taker (WM) ****1/4
5) 12-man Elimination Tag (VR) ****1/4
6) Michaels vs Jericho (NM) ****
7) MITB (WM) ****
8) Angle vs AJ (Slammi) ****
9) Lethal Lockdown (LD) ****
10) Taker vs Edge (SS) ****


----------



## Groovemachine

Wow I am loving ROH Northern Navigation right now. Up to the main event. So far I have:

Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ****1/4-****1/2

Roderick Strong vs Naomichi Marufuji - ****1/4

Kevin Steen vs Nigel McGuinness - ****1/4

Same kind of ratings for each match, but I loved them for different reasons. The emotion in Steen/McGuinness was really well played, Danielson/Claudio was just a great technical display, and Strong/Marufuji had some great chemistry, with balls-to-the-wall action from the get-go.


----------



## Goku

Date for Burning vs. Kensuke Office ?


----------



## seabs

Invincible said:


> Date for Burning vs. Kensuke Office ?


*8/17/2008

It's in the Media Section if you're looking for it *

*KENTA vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - Kensuke Office 13.06.2008*
_****1/4_


----------



## watts63

*EWF Speed Enforced By Radar*
Liger Rivera vs. Terex ****

EWF is f'n awesome!


----------



## dav

Burning vs Kensuke Office - ****3/4

Awesome Awesome match


----------



## vivalabrave

*HHH vs. Jeff Hardy (WWE Title) Cyber Sunday​*
Really loved this match. Totally about to overrate it here. In fact, I liked it MORE than their No Mercy match earlier in the month (****). Story in my eyes is all about the fact that Hardy is just a guy who gets by on ability and HHH gets by through his intelligence. 

Jeff came into the match with the same formula he always has (ie: jump off shit). When they mat wrestle in the beginning, HHH just bides his time until Hardy goes to said formula and HHH pushes him off the turnbuckle. You see, HHH, who was taken to the limit 3 weeks prior, didn’t take Hardy for granted this time. He knew Hardy was going to get the vote (as pointed out by the announcers), so he watched a ton of tape to counter every….little…thing that Hardy had in his arsenal. Examples include:

Whisper in the Wind --> pushed off the top rope
Corner Dropkick --> Spinebuster
Crossbody off the middle rope --> Crippler Crossface
Twist of Fate --> pushed into turnbuckle which then leads to Pedigree attempt

Hardy then started to ever so slightly deviate his formula as he starts to hit the offense that HHH countered beforehand. When he finally hit the Whisper in the Wind, he then attempted and hit it a second time. This is paid off later. Hardy gets on a roll, so HHH tries the sleeper to slow him down, but Jeff can’t be stopped. The payoff of the double Whisper in the Wind goes down when Jeff hits the Swanton, then gets greedy and goes for it again only for HHH to adapt to the change in “style” and get the knees up. Hardy still won’t go down and starts playing to the crowd that voted him in as he goes up for another Swanton, but HHH has seen more than enough of that and Hardy gets pulled off the top and eats Pedigree. I really enjoyed the ending and I’m really glad Kozloff didn’t interfere as everyone one on the net predicted.

There weren’t many things I didn’t like about the match, but there were some. Hardy was a bit sloppy with some of his offense. Also when Hardy was in the Crossface, he looked not so much in pain as he did “mildly annoyed.” Another is when HHH put the steps back up after getting rammed into them so Hardy could do his awesome Poetry-in-Motion-on-the-outside spot. Clean a few of these things up and the rating would have been a little higher.

Incredible match all in all. I can’t really stand HHH as a face and I have not been a fan of his title run so far but his feud with Jeff has breathed new life into it for me. These two have so much chemistry it’s crazy. For the first time I truly buy Hardy as a threat to the title (even though HHH kind of schooled him here). I’m not a fan of Hardy either but I was actually marking for the guy towards the end. I thought there was a slight chance he’d get that day in the sun but it was not to be yet. The rating I’m giving it is the highest I’ve seen for it, but I really don’t care about the consensus anyway. Doubt anyone will like it as much as me, but it's all good.

*****1/4*


----------



## peep4life

ROH Northern Navigation
Danielson/ Claudio- ****1/2-3/4
Might be overrating this a bit but I loved this match. Everything flowed perfect, the crowd was great and the wrestling was top notch. Easily in my Top 10 for this year.


----------



## MrPaiMei

KENTA/Ibushi vs. Marufuji/Nakajima

Really awesome match that just misses out on greatness. The workrate here really is incredible, as these guys go real hard for the full 35 minutes of the match. Things don't get as batshit crazy as, say, KENTaiji vs. Marufuji/Ibushi, but it's still great fucking stuff. ****1/4

Dragon vs. Claudio - Toronto

Really fucking incredibly smooth and smartly wrestled, as well as fun. Much like the above match, not enough to set it apart as a top end MOTYC, unfortunately. ****-****1/4


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Age Of Insanity*
Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico - ****1/4 - ****1/2

Same vein as McGuinness/Black with Generico playing the underdog to perfection.


----------



## Spartanlax

I think Danielson/Claudio from ROH's "Northern Navigation" is borderline five stars, juuuuuust missing out on the mark. I found it to be an incredibly creative technical match where everything made sense and every move was executed perfectly. It was just straight up awesome with a hot crowd to boot. Everyone should check it out. ****3/4


----------



## MrPaiMei

KingCrash, do you know what would be just AWESOME?


----------



## Spartanlax

I believe he does PaiMei...I believe he does.


----------



## KingCrash

Of course I do. Ruckus vs. Adam Pearce, right? :side:


----------



## watts63

*AWS Bart's Birthday Bash '08*
Brandon & Dustin Cutler vs. Matt & Nick Jackson vs. Shane & Shannon Ballard vs. Scorpio Sky & Lil' Cholo ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## peep4life

*ROH Norther Navigation*
Strong/Marufuji ****-****1/4
Steen/Nigel ****1/4-****1/2
Both great matches, this show is easily one of the years best, and I still haven't watched the ME.


----------



## ADN

*ROH Age Of Insanity*
Chris Hero & Go Shiozaki vs Roderick Strong & Brent Albright - ***3/4
Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## T-C

BattlArts 7/26 - Yuki Ishikawa, Alexander Otsuka and Munenori Sawa v Daisuke Ikeda, Katsumi Usuda and Super Tiger II.

Fucking incredible, go watch this now.


----------



## MrPaiMei

I keep hearing that T-C. I gotta ask, is it real slow, real fast, or just kind of BattleARTS hard with no discernable speed?


----------



## T-C

It goes long so it's not super quick or anything, but the pace is kept well, considering how hard they are going on eachother. When I looked at the time when it was over I couldn't believe how long it was, which I suppose is a testment to it's pacing and overall quality.

I'd been off wrestling for a while, but this was great and ridiculously stiff as you would expect.


----------



## casper-21

IWS Scarred 4 life:

El Generico vs Max Boyer *** 3/4


----------



## dragonkid

Just got done watching KENTA vs. Marufuji and WOW! This is my favorite match this year. The story is basically them breaking each others necks for an hour. This had it all, high flying, innovative moves and submission, tremondous high spots and sequences, great mat work and of course, the stiff strikes. This is my favortie hour draw ever and I've seen em all, joe vs. punk 2, kobashi vs. kawada jan. 95, etc. 5 star classic.


----------



## antoniomare007

not the GOAT 1 hr Draw by any means, IMO.

but the KENTA/Maru match was great


----------



## gusbarba

NOAH - KENTA vs MARUFUJI title vs title - 1 Hr draw 

**** 1/4..... ****2/4


----------



## peep4life

*FIP Hot Summer Nights 2008*
Roderick Strong vs Erik Stevens- ****1/4 Nice finish to a fantastic feud.


----------



## Burning Sword

*KENTA vs. Marufuji (NOAH 10/25/08)- ****-****1/4*

Highly enjoyable match and one of better matches I've seen this month. Wada kicking away the rope breaks was awesome and the finishing sequence was solid up until they both had to kill off some of their finisher's credibility. Despite that, it's well worth the watch.


----------



## casper-21

NOAH 25.10.08 - KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji ****1/2 - ****3/4

Better than this way in an hour it was probably impossible. Marufuji is a genius. Every match he goes out with something that you have never seen before, and sometimes he try a grandiose thing from the nothing. The match maker has clearly been him furnishing an uproarious performance. KENTA has departed enough soothed, as obvious for a match of the kind, beginning to beat very hard only in the final part. The rhythm has always been very good, with very little moments of break, and the last 15 minutes were awesome. In conclusion, one of the best matches from a hour of the modern era and for me the better match in Japan from at least one year to.

(sorry for my bad english)


----------



## ADN

*ROH Night Of The Butcher II*
Chris Hero vs Erick Stevens - ***3/4
Nigel McGuinness & Claudio Castagnoli vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - 
****-****1/4


----------



## mateuspfc

*NOAH 25.10.08 - KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji
****3/4*
Nearly perfect. I just couldn't get the ref kicking the ropes... was he helping Maru because he is AJPW Jr. Champ and this stuff? If it is, then it was awesome, just because of the people's and the NOAH ref facial expressions. Anyway, there's nothin to say more about the piece of greatness. Tied with the KO-Burning 10 man tag as my MOTY.


----------



## Y²

KENTAfuji ****3/4 (My MoTY so far)

Really good, the hour seemed to just fly by, its been said but the last 5 minutes really killed each of their Finisher’s Credibility that was really the worst part, although not knowing the result of the match this made for some awesome falsies for me. A lot of the hour was filled with Marufuji’s ‘Movez’ and KENTA selling himself like a prostitute, each were both essential and were delivered. The leg work on KENTA made sense as well like most wrestlers he needs to use his legs, but he more than others, his kicks are most of his move set, although the ‘Leg Work’ didn’t really pay off later because he jumped off his ass and kicked the shit out of Marufuji at times. On the flip side KENTA was working mostly on Marufuji’s neck and head, so I guess that meant he was going for the knock out win. This allowed Marufuji to dominate more when he was offensive. The big moves began rare and became almost script at the end, so well done for building up. The finish was annoying, but I wasn’t surprised at all, it has made room for a number 5, (Or was that not #4?)

My favorite spots- The Moonsault, the Busaiku Knee over the rope and the nasty ass Body Slam to the outside (Everyone’s reaction to the *Thud* was just a “…..”).

Also no Shiranui Kai? WTF?


----------



## Blasko

I'm hoping to spend my Halloween night either watching KENTA/Marufuji or downloading Halloween Havoc PPVs...


----------



## casper-21

Y² said:


> it has made room for a number 5, (Or was that not #4?)


That was at least number 7 or more.


----------



## seabs

* NOAH 25.10.08 - KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji*
_****3/4_


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

T-C said:


> BattlArts 7/26 - Yuki Ishikawa, Alexander Otsuka and Munenori Sawa v Daisuke Ikeda, Katsumi Usuda and Super Tiger II.
> 
> Fucking incredible, go watch this now.


Yeah, I'll need to see this. Is it available at any of the usual places? 



Seabs said:


> * NOAH 25.10.08 - KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji*
> _****3/4_


I'll need to see this as well.


----------



## vivalabrave

Recently watched:

*Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/2 ****1/2*
One of my favorite matches of the year and in my top 3 overall. Never thought I would say that about a Pearce match but there it is. Amazing chemistry and I hope to see them go at it again.


*KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji NOAH 10/25 ****1/2*
Not as good as 10/26/2006, but still epic. Could go higher but I kind of felt like they were trying to go an hour at some points.

Top 10 of 2008 so far:

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 2/23 ****3/4
2. Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara KO 8/17 ****1/2
3. Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/2 ****1/2
4. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero WXW 3/9 ****1/2
5. KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji NOAH 10/25 ****1/2
6. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ROH 3/16 ****1/2
7. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 3/30 ****1/2
8. The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. The Briscoes ROH 4/19 ****1/2
9. Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong FIP 2/16 ****1/2
10. The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black ROH 4/18 ****1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

*KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji NOAH 10/25 - ****1/2*

I agree with vivalabrave, the stalling was a little bit too apparent at times, and I also felt that they kind of killed each other's finishers, but still this was an astounding feat of athleticism. Picking the pace up like they did 45 minutes in was pretty incredible. Not quite *THE* MOTY, but it'll definitely finish highly on my list.


----------



## Starrcade

-Blaskohiro Tenryu- said:


> I'm hoping to spend my Halloween night either watching KENTA/Marufuji or downloading *Halloween Havoc* PPVs...


Watch any? Because most of them own.


----------



## Jonn

Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA 
NOAH 10/25/08
**** 1/2


----------



## -GP-

*KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji NOAH 10/25 ****1/2*
Like vivalabrave said, not as good as 10/26/2006, but then again, what is?
Loved how they played off that match for spots, like the dreaded moonsault over the rail, or the tiger driver off the ropes.
The hour draw did look a bit forced and the finishing stretch could've been better, but i'm really just picking at straws here...great match, definitely go out of your way for this. 

*Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara KO 8/17 ****1/2-3/4*
KENTA and Nakajima are all kinds of awesome together, and the other 6 aren't too shabby either...


----------



## Burning Sword

I watched KENTA vs. Marufuji again and I liked it better than before. ****1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

Currently working my way through Death Before Dishonor VI.

So far I have:

Adam Pearce vs Brent Albright - ****1/4

Go Shiozaki vs Naomichi Marufuji - ****1/4-****1/2

I have a feeling with a second viewing of Pearce/Albright my rating will go up. But yeah, Shiozaki/Marufuji was pure awesomeness.


----------



## volcanic

Danielson vs. Black - ROH Breakout - ******
Danielson vs. McGuinness - 9/13 Differ Ariake - ***** 1/4*
Michaels vs. Jericho - No Mercy - Ladder Match - ***** 1/4*


----------



## Derek

*Pro Wrestling Noah- Double Title Match
-GHC Jr. Heavyweight Champion KENTA vs. AJPW Jr. Heavyweight Champion Naomichi Marufuji*

I thought this match might as well be subtitled "lets do as much as we possibly can in an hour."

The Positives: The pace they were wrestling probably led some people watching live to believe that they weren't going to go for an hour. It seemed like with the way they were going for the first 15-20 minutes, it looked like we might have a double champion, which is a good way to keep the fans interested in the match. Also, each man (especially Marufuji) pulled out some moves that they haven't done in a while, or had not done before (I loved the wrist-clutch Regalplex by Marufuji).

They did play up on their last match a couple of times, like when Marufuji did the moonsault over the guardrail, the move that the wasn't so succesful with the last time he tried it.

And I loved referee Kyohei Wada kicking the ropes away during a rope break. He might as well said "No easy way out this time, you pussy".

The Negatives: Their last match went 35 minutes with a pace of an hour draw, while this match went 60 minutes and had the pace of a match that would go 20-25 minutes. The result was that by the 45-50 minute marks we were starting to see some overkill. Both men have had problems with long term selling in matches, and this is no exception. Dammit KENTA, he damn near tried to actually break your leg, you could at least sell it for more than 5 minutes.

Both men hit their finishers multiple times in the match, and Marufuji even hit his big match finisher, The Pole Shift, only to get a 2 count. While it made both guys look near indestructible to kick out of these moves, it didn't help the credibility of their finishers. 

*Rating: ****1/4*

Not a bad match by any means, definitely worth checking out. The fans seemed very happy with the match, which is a good thing since NOAH has put so much stock in them being a couple of guys that will carry the company for years to come.


----------



## Maxx Hero

While I have yet to see the match, it would make sense for of all people KENTA and Marufuji to kick out, they are the be all end alls in Japan, so if anyone is gonna kick out it is them. I see no problem with KENTA getting out of the pole shift. If it was Mohammad Yone who kicked out of three after taking another ten before hand then I would have a problem with it...I am looking right at you Nigel!


----------



## AussieFan

Just a few awesome match ratings from 08:

Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels No Mercy - ****1/4+
HHH vs Jeff Hardy No Mercy - ****1/4
FIP Redefined - Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - ****1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

What's the lowest rating anyone's seen for the Redefined encounter between Strong and Stevens? I seriously don't think I've seen it any lower than ****1/2. I haven't seen the match yet, and it's kinda putting me off compiling any kind of personal MOTYC list, as it seems it would be highly inaccurate without this match. I really should track it down I guess!


----------



## KingCrash

*NOAH 10/25/08*
Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA - ****1/2

*wXw August 2008*
*wXw World Heavyweight Title*
Mike Quackenbush vs. Steve Douglas - ****


----------



## peep4life

*ROH Fueling the Fire*
GO/Marifuji vs. AOTF ****1/4-****1/2 
Great fast paced action, would love to see Black/Fuji in the future.


----------



## The Great Maijin

My Motyc So far

Angle/Christian FR ***3/4
Angle/Christian AAO ***1/2
Angle/Nagata WK2 ***3/4
Tanahashi/Nakamura WK2 ****
Tanahashi/AJ Styles 2/17 Sumo Hall ***1/2
Cmll Vs TNA Summer ***1/2
Morishima Vs Misawas 3/2 ***3/4
Tanaka/Sekimoto January ****
12 man xcup Victoryroad ****1/4
Angle/Styles Hardjustice ****
Edge/Undertaker Summerslam ****1/2
Raw Elimintation Chamber ****
Smackdown Elimination Chaber ***3/4
Hardy/Michaels JanRaw ***1/2
Noah Vs KO Summer ****
Sasaki/Marufuji ***3/4
Sasaki/Kenta ***3/4
MarufujiSuguira/Briscoes 3/2 ****
ShingoBxB/Ishimori Kenta Jan ****
Angle/Styles Slammiversary ***3/4
Aries/Shiosaki Anniversary ****
Letahl Lockdown ****
Stong/Butcher/Stevens Anniversary ***3/4


----------



## Burning Sword

*AJPW Jr. Heavyweight Championship: Naomichi Marufuji (c) vs. Shuji Kondo 11/3/08- ****-****1/4
*

A damn good Jr. Match here. Marufuji work the finish a whole lot better in contrast to his match his KENTA, using every move possible to try to put away Kondo and abstain from hurting some of his finisher's credibility. Kondo looked pretty awesome here too and the crowd was behind him all the way.


----------



## casper-21

ROH Age Of Insanity - ROH World Title:

Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico ****



NOAH Great Voyage In Osaka - 2/3 falls:

Naomichi Marufuji & Ricky Marvin vs KENTA & Taiji Ishimori *** 3/4



BattlARTS 26/07/08 - Elimination match:

Yuki Ishikawa, Alexander Otsuka & Munenori Sawa vs Daisuke Ikeda, Katsumi Usuda & Super Tiger II *** 3/4


----------



## LowKi

Marufuji vs Shuji Kondo : ****

People do not enough say how great Kondo can be !


----------



## Burning Sword

*Chikara AniversarioCT (4/25/08):*

The Osirian Portal vs. Mike Quackenbush & Shane Storm- ****


----------



## LowKi

*GHC Heavyweight Title : Kensuke Sasaki (c) vs Mohammed Yone*

A very physical match. I was so impressed by Yone's offense, and I really think je sould be one of the top top players of NOAH in the future. 

****


----------



## AussieFan

Where can i watch ROH online (not downloads...) like Full PPV's and matches etc.?


----------



## MrPaiMei

PAC/Young Bucks vs. Steenerico/Yokosuka

HO. LY. SHIT.

This match is so crazy motherfucking fun and good. It's just crazy apparent in this match how ridiculously talented Steenerico and PAC are, and how Young Bucks could maybe be on that level someday (Susumu looked great when he did shit, but honestly had a very small role in the match. This was, and this is rare, awesome US Indy style sequences done with the smoothness and precision DG guys learn, all these men had it too. My favorite tag of the sort in a while, and it's NUTS to realise this was a replacement for an even better looking six man (Generico/Steen/Susumu vs. Strong/Evans/PAC).


----------



## Groovemachine

Phew, finally got round to watching Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong from FIP Redefined. An easy ****1/2. Great storytelling, and a fantastic example of how blood can add so much drama to a match despite not technically being needed (i.e. it wasn't a gimmick match). Looking forward to the Dog Collar match and then that's the feud finished for me.


----------



## sirdilznik

*TNA Turning Point*

*Beer Money Inc. vs. Motor City Machine Guns - ****1/2* - An amazing tag team match that featured everything I could possibly want in a tag match. Great double team moves, and tons of them. Excellent heel team work and a great hot tag. Great near falls and excellent momentum shifts. Backfires, great pace, and tons of time. Even the dirty finish was well done and I didn't mind it. MOTN for one of the best PPVs of the year.
*
Kurt Angle vs. Abyss - Falls Count Anywhere - ****1/4 - ****1/2* - Kurt Angle is officially completely insane... and he is also Wrestler Of The Year, I don't care what anyone says. Sick hardcore match that included some ridiculous spots and great work from both competitors. It's going to take me months to get over Kurt's MASSIVE Flip Dive :shocked:


----------



## KingCrash

*TNA Turning Point*
Beer Money Inc vs. Motor City Machine Guns - ****

*PWG Life During Wartime*
Chris Bosh vs. Scorpio Sky - **** - ****1/4
Human Tornado vs. Chris Hero - ****

*PWG All Star Weekend 7 - Both Nights*
Pac & The Young Bucks vs. Steen/Generico/Yokosuka - **** - ****1/4
The Young Bucks vs. Age Of The Fall - ****
Chris Hero vs. Pac - ****1/4

*wXw Back To The Roots VII*
Alex Pain vs. Absolute Andy - ****


----------



## Y²

AussieFan said:


> Where can i watch ROH online (not downloads...) like Full PPV's and matches etc.?


The same place where you can get laid for free in your computer chair.

Um, nowhere.


----------



## Taroostyles

Beer Money/MCMG-****

Didn't see all of Angle/Abyss just yet, but what I did see was incredible and apparently it's definitely ****+ as well.


----------



## peep4life

Hey KingCrash, thats my head turning in your Kingston gif from PWG, good times.
TNA Turning Point
MCMG/Beer Money ****
Angle/Abyss ****


----------



## TheAce

> PAC/Young Bucks vs. Steenerico/Yokosuka
> 
> HO. LY. SHIT.
> 
> This match is so crazy motherfucking fun and good. It's just crazy apparent in this match how ridiculously talented Steenerico and PAC are, and how Young Bucks could maybe be on that level someday (Susumu looked great when he did shit, but honestly had a very small role in the match. This was, and this is rare, awesome US Indy style sequences done with the smoothness and precision DG guys learn, all these men had it too. My favorite tag of the sort in a while, and it's NUTS to realise this was a replacement for an even better looking six man (Generico/Steen/Susumu vs. Strong/Evans/PAC).


agreed %100

PAC is a beast in this match and Steen is the man. **** 1/4


----------



## ADN

*TNA Turning Point 2008*
Beer Money vs MCMG - ***1/2-***3/4
Kurt Angle vs Abyss - ****


----------



## Maxx Hero

your sig is the first I have seen of the Angle somersault...HOlY SHIT! That is some sick hang time! Was the rest of that match that crazy?


----------



## TheAce

Kenny Omega vs Sanshiro Takagi (Street Fight) 08-10-08 ****

Just saw this and it was really fun. Omega is one of those guys when you see them work you just know they're on their way to doing great things. I've been trying to find Ibushi Vs Omega but I can't seem to find it anywhere!!!! Has anybody here seen it?


----------



## LowKi

Damn right.

Omega had such a good run in DDT ! I've seen of his matches and he impressed me a lot (especially against HARASHIMA or Takagi). He's a great worker.

I do not remember... but has he been contacted by WWE for a developemental contract ?


----------



## peep4life

*PWG Life During Wartime*
Chris Hero vs Human Tornado Steel Cage Guerrilla Warfare
****1/4 Great, brutal blow off to their feud. Its amazing Tornado did so much considering how fucked up his leg was.


----------



## KingKicks

*TNA Turning Point 2008*

MCMG vs. Beer Money ******
_Reminded me of the old TNA tag matches from the Asylum days_

Kurt Angle vs. Abyss ******
_Great match. Angle is a crazy motherfucker_


----------



## Taroostyles

Angle/Abyss-Falls Count Anywhere-****1/4

Finally watched the whole thing, a pretty breathtaking match from start to finish. Slightly better than BMI/MCMG which I have at ****, Turning Point was an incredible show overall as well.


----------



## TheAce

> I do not remember... but has he been contacted by WWE for a developemental contract ?


yeah, he was a couple years ago and he quit. He said he'd rather wrestle on the Indies and world circuit.


----------



## sirdilznik

After re-watching Turning Point I'm revising my rankings slightly. I'm slightly downgrading *Kurt Angle vs. Abyss to **** - ****1/4* (I was just so overcome by Kurt's insanity before) but I'm totally sticking to *****1/2 for BMI vs. MCMG* (if anything I am slightly tempted to almost raise it, that match was so freakin' good).


----------



## Burning Sword

*TNA Turning Point:*

Beer Money vs. MCMG- ****1/2-***3/4*
Kurt Angle vs. Abyss- ******

Angle is a fucking madman


----------



## Chiller88

*Turning Point*
BMI/MCMG: ****
Amazing tag team action.

Angle/Abyss - FCA: ****1/4
Angle is fucking insane!


----------



## andremt9

peep4life said:


> *PWG Life During Wartime*
> Chris Hero vs Human Tornado Steel Cage Guerrilla Warfare
> ****1/4 Great, brutal blow off to their feud. Its amazing Tornado did so much considering how fucked up his leg was.


I Would give **** & 1/2 * 

Just a Brutal Match

We can see the hatred between these guys in this match.Fucking Awesome Match Must-See to Indy Fans


----------



## Jonn

Angle/Abyss - Turning Point '08 - ****¼

First TNA match I've seen for a while, it didn't disappoint.


----------



## dele

CHIKARA - Global Gauntlet Match - *** Kind of disappointing to be honest.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Are you talking about the 64 minute gauntlet match? That does sound disappointing. How was the rest of the show?


----------



## Cleavage

TNA Turning Point 2008

MCMG Vs Beer Money INC ***3/4 - ****
Kurt "Fucking" Angle Vs Abyss **** - ****1/2


----------



## dele

Maxx Hero said:


> Are you talking about the 64 minute gauntlet match? That does sound disappointing. How was the rest of the show?


Yeah, I'm talking about that match. I haven't got a chance to watch the rest of the show.


----------



## Groovemachine

Turning Point 2008:

Beer Money Inc vs Motor City Machine Guns - ****
-Textbook tag team wrestling, I enjoyed the heck out of this.

Kurt Angle vs Abyss - ***3/4


----------



## KingCrash

Maxx Hero said:


> Are you talking about the 64 minute gauntlet match? That does sound disappointing. How was the rest of the show?


The SSB/Portal title match was the best match of the night, most of the other matches were descent although Lince/Icarus was just terrible. Never thought Icarus would be the least hated person in a match.


----------



## Burning Sword

*PWG Life During Wartime:*

Scorpio Sky vs. Chris Bosh- ***3/4
Steel Cage Guerilla Warfare: Human Tornado vs. Chris Hero- ****

Could have shed a few minutes from this match as it dragged, but pretty awesome stuff nonetheless. A great blowoff and some of the sickest elbow shots ever.


----------



## PulseGlazer

Northern Nav-

Strong vs. Marufuji - **** for a fun match. Nothing special, great selling and comebacks by Strong, but the fighting spirit out of a superplex annoyed me.

Nigel vs. Steen ****- This is what all the hype was for? Nigel's 12 minute heat segment on Steen early nearly killed his credibility. What was great was Steen's back being totally dismantled, leading to all of his flying stuff failing and his ultimate defeat. I hate the end of Nigel matches which is basically finisher trading and near-falls. Morishima did something similar, but his formula (without the endless heel control) kept it far fresher. Nigel works like a slightly better TNA Angle and it bothers me a lot.

Danielson vs. Claudio - **** 1/2 - A top 5 ROH match for me this year, so far. The mat wrestling was beautiful and CC using his strength, forcing Danielso to mix in speed with his mat work was beautiful and paid off well. This also flowed soooooo much better than their WEAK Vendetta 2 match.


----------



## stinger-splash

Abyss vs Angle ****+ (Turning Point 08)
Angle for WOTY!


----------



## LowKi

Any thoughts on *Nakajima vs Danielson *? I would rate it **** 1/2 or *** 3/4*.

It was a very good match (no surprise here, because I have never seen a bad singles match including one of these two) BUT I noticed some bad points :

- The fans !!! I got so bored with their chants, especially "USA, USA" at the beginning of the match. I really can't stand US indy fans no more. Japanese are so far better.
- Nakajima got not enough offense sequences compared to Bryan. 
- I was surprised to see Bryan work on the arm of Nakajima, and not the legs, which are Nakajima's main weapon.


----------



## -Mystery-

LowKi said:


> Any thoughts on *Nakajima vs Danielson *? I would rate it **** 1/2 or *** 3/4*.
> 
> It was a very good match (no surprise here, because I have never seen a bad singles match including one of these two) BUT I noticed some bad points :
> 
> - The fans !!! I got so bored with their chants, especially "USA, USA" at the beginning of the match. I really can't stand US indy fans no more. Japanese are so far better.
> - Nakajima got not enough offense sequences compared to Bryan.
> *- I was surprised to see Bryan work on the arm of Nakajima, and not the legs, which are Nakajima's main weapon.*


It actually works both ways. If Danielson works over the arms, he softens him up for the Cattle Mutilation or Crossface Chickenwing. However, if he works over the legs, he takes away Nakajima's offense. Either option makes a lot of sense.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

ROH MOTYC ratings for the first six months (I go November-October)

Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson [Glory By Honor VI Night 1 - 11/2] ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson [Glory By Honor VI Night 2 - 11/3/2007] ****¾
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. KENTA [Glory By Honor VI Night 2 - 11/3/2007] ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries [Rising Above - 12/29/2007] ****¾
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Davey Richards [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****¼
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries [Proving Ground - 1/11] ****
Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson [Breakout - 1/25] ****¼
Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico [Without Remorse - 1/26] ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Roderick Strong [Without Remorse - 1/26] ****
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] ****¼
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] ****¼
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] *****
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson [Take No Prisoners - 3/16] ****½
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black [Take No Prisoners - 3/16] ****¾
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino [Dragon Gate Challenge II - 3/28] ****½
Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black [Dragon Gate Challenge II - 3/28] ****
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****
Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****¼
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****¾
CIMA, Dragon Kid, & Ryo Saito vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, & Genki Horiguchi [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****
Davey Richards vs. Kota Ibushi [Bedlam in Beantown - 4/11] ****
Briscoe Bros. vs. Kota Ibushi & Austin Aries [Tag Wars 2008 - 4/18] ****
Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black [Tag Wars 2008 - 4/18] ****
Briscoe Bros. vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley [Return Engagement - 4/19] ****
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico [Return Engagement - 4/19] ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black [Southern Navigation - 5/9] ****¼
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Bryan Danielson [A New Level - 5/10] ****


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Driven 2008*

Roderick Strong vs. Nigel McGuinness - ****1/4
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/2 - ****3/4

*Chikara - The Global Gauntlet Night 2*

The Osirian Portal vs. The Super Smash Brothers - ****


----------



## LowKi

-Mystery- said:


> It actually works both ways. If Danielson works over the arms, he softens him up for the Cattle Mutilation or Crossface Chickenwing. However, if he works over the legs, he takes away Nakajima's offense. Either option makes a lot of sense.


Right.


----------



## seabs

*Steenerico vs Evans/Strong - PWG DDT 4*
_***3/4_


----------



## PulseGlazer

Tyler vs. Danielson - New Horizons - **** 1/4 (maybe that's even a bit high)... this was no better than their second encounter and actually probably a step below. Danielson was great, but Tyler had no real strategy and it didn't actually feel like he could win, especially when the rope went, which despite the cool visual neutered the match. Danielson's control all match was also all technical, so he suddenly wins by striking Tyler's head in? Realistic, but not storyline satisfying.... though it did pay off Tyler disrespecting him, hence the high, but not too high rating.


----------



## TheAce

> Chikara - The Global Gauntlet Night 2
> 
> The Osirian Portal vs. The Super Smash Brothers - ****


Beat me to it. Really fun match, I just wish it had gone like 2-3 mins longer.


----------



## ADN

*ROH Battle Of The Best*
Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - ****-****1/4


----------



## RPC

LowKi said:


> Any thoughts on *Nakajima vs Danielson *? I would rate it **** 1/2 or *** 3/4*.
> 
> It was a very good match (no surprise here, because I have never seen a bad singles match including one of these two) BUT I noticed some bad points :
> 
> *- The fans !!! I got so bored with their chants, especially "USA, USA" at the beginning of the match. I really can't stand US indy fans no more. Japanese are so far better.*
> - Nakajima got not enough offense sequences compared to Bryan.
> - I was surprised to see Bryan work on the arm of Nakajima, and not the legs, which are Nakajima's main weapon.


Honestly it only sounded like a few fans trying to get that over not the whole crowd.


----------



## casper-21

PWG Life During Wartime:

Chris Bish vs Scorpio Sky **** or **** 1/4


ROH Battle Of The Best:

Roderick Strong vs Davey Richards **** 1/4

Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness ****


----------



## stinger-splash

MCMG vs Briscoes (Return Engagement) ***3/4

First ROH match I watched in a year, and probably the last one for a while. I'm a huge MCMG fans and they were fantastic in this match, but still I was bored during parts of the match. Crowd was pretty dead, except for some claps after a spot, they were silent all the time. I even heard the wrestlers and referee talk to eachtother many times.
Another annoying thing was no replay of big spots. Some spots weren't even shown, like Shelley's running kick and a dive to the outside. Other than that I think they only had two cameras, which sucked as well.
The action in the ring was still great, lots of fantastic back and forth, especially the final minutes. A few slower parts, but the chemistry was great. Psychology and storytelling were missing tho.
If you're ROH fan and in for some tag team wrestling, definitely watch it.


----------



## casper-21

ROH The Tokyo Summit:

Naomich Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs KENTA & Kota Ibushi **** 1/2 or **** 3/4


----------



## antoniomare007

Steenerico vs AOTF - Driven 2008

Amazing, top 5 tag match of the year easily


----------



## ADN

*ROH The Tokyo Summit*
Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs KENTA & Kota Ibushi - ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## casper-21

Dragon Gate GATE OF DESTINY 2008: (best show DG 2008)


Shingo Takagi vs. Susumu Yokosuka (Open the Dream Gate Title) **** 1/4


Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid (Open the Brave Gate Title) ****


Naruki Doi & Naoki Tanizaki vs. Cyber Kong & YAMATO (Open the Twin Gate Title) ****


----------



## Groovemachine

I've got a bit behind as of late, but last night I watched:

*ROH New Horizons*
Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ****1/2
~Best match of their series.


----------



## LowKi

DG Gate of Destiny :


*(Open the Dream Gate Title)*Shingo Takagi vs. Susumu Yokosuka 
******


*(Open the Brave Gate Title)*
Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid 
**** 3/4*

*(Open the Twin Gate Title)*
Naruki Doi & Naoki Tanisaki vs. Cyber Kong & YAMATO 
**** 1/4*


----------



## Maxx Hero

How was Shingo/Susumu? Was it more like old Susumu or new Susumu? Was Shingo playing face or heel during the match with his imminent turn coming?


----------



## RACF

ROH The Tokyo Summit
Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs KENTA & Kota Ibushi ****


----------



## ADN

*ROH Driven 2008*
Nigel McGuinness vs Roderick Strong - ****
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Tyler Black & Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/2


----------



## Maxx Hero

I would not consider it a MOTYC, but others are so I bring this up here.

Super Smash Brothers vs. The Osirian Portal

I am a big fan of the Portal and Stupified, and I can deal with Player Uno, so this match looked good, and it was a very fun match. The first fall may only have been a couple minutes but it was believable. The second fall was entertaining, and the third fall besides the finish wasn't lacking. As usual from The Portal there was some inovative stuff. One example was a back pack mounted death gip flipped into some crazy Canadian flippy slam driver. A very fun match, a great introduction for those not familiar with Chikara, and definate proff that wrestling can be good even mixed heavily with gimmicks. I say ****1/2*.

Also, Chikara Crowd<ROH Crowd. I will take "Shut The Fuck Up" and "Same Old Shit" chants over "Take Your Pants Off", kids screaming, and that CZW fan with the blow horn.


----------



## AussieFan

Not sure if this was in 2008 or not but

PWG Pearl Habra - Chris Hero vs Human Tornado No DQ - ***3/4 - ****

Really good match. PWG looks like an interesting promotion.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Battle Of The Best

El Generico, SHINGO & Dragon kid vs BxB Hulk, Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino*
_***3/4+_

*Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness*
_****+
(Amazingly good technical match. Great mat wrestling)_


----------



## Jonn

AussieFan said:


> Not sure if this was in 2008 or not but
> 
> PWG Pearl Habra - Chris Hero vs Human Tornado No DQ - ***3/4 - ****
> 
> Really good match. PWG looks like an interesting promotion.


It was in January.

***½ for the Hero/Tornado match. Generico/Low Ki from the same show was good too, around **** from what I remember of it.


----------



## Maxx Hero

*KENTA vs. Nakajima ****1/2* _6.13.08 Kensuke Office_

This was great. Stiff, intense, good submissions, hard strikes. I could feel the hate. It was good. Can't wait to see that shows main event. I must know, who funds/runs Kensuke Office? It is a great company, and I wonder why it isn't more known. Very good match. *My match of the year*. My only complains are that the finishers looked weak in this match, and second that the last minute was anti climatic.


----------



## ROHFan4Life

ROH Death before Dishonor VI: 
4 Corner Elimination: Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli **** 3/4 Amazing match. Non-Stop action for the whole 30 minutes and Black/Nigel was better than TNP. MATCH OF THE YEAR!!!
NOAH: Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki **** 1/4
NWA Title: Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright **** 1/4 Awesome match just not as great as I've read about and I guess I set my standards too high.

WrestleMania XXIV:
Ric Flair vs. HBK **** 3/4 A pure Classic which is fitting for Flair's final match but it doesn't get the full 5 because in terms of the match itself, it was above-average and it was the emotion that shot it up so high.

Dragon Gate Infinity:
GHC Tag Title: Doi & Yoshino vs. SHINGO & BxB Hulk **** 1/4

ROH Superard of Honor III:
ROH World Title Match: Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries **** 1/2 A really awesome match that gets overlooked because of their match on PPV and because it was just ONE of the MULTIPLE matches that were great on the card.

ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II:
Steen & Generico vs. Doi & Yoshino **** 1/4 Great fast-paced match that never stopped.
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. BxB Hulk & SHINGO **** 1/4 Really overlooked because of all that happened in the weekend and the previous match before it. A shame really because to me, it was just as good and was a lot more fun because of the clearer face/heel dynamic in the match.

Dragon Gate Gate of Generation:
GHC Tag Titles: SHINGO & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori **** 1/4

Dragon Gate Dead or Alive:
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi **** 1/2 Really stiff match and great to see these two favorites beat each other up.

ROH Respect is Earned II:
Fight Without Honor : Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens **** 1/4 Awesome brutal match that really showed what their feud was about and demonstrated their hate for each other.

ROH Take No Prisoners: 
World Title: Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black **** 1/2-**** 3/4 Incredibly Amazing match that just gets better everytime I watch it and I always feel like one of the pinfalls Tyler gets on Nigel may actually work that time and still get wrapped up in it. Would get the full 5 if Tyler hadn't been so dominated early and focused on Nigel's neck or something.

Kensuke Office:
KENTA vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima **** 1/2 REEEEEEALLY Stiff! Just constant kicks and finishers towards the end.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Steen/Generico vs. Jacobs/Black

Loved this EVEN MORE than live. Just perfect execution the whole way with SUCH a crazy 2nd half with the crowd going crazy the whole time. It's also layed out basically perferctly with no real instances of overkill with the same guy kicking out 20 times in a Row. Everyone builds to their big finishes throughout the match and everything is worked in right where they belong, and the tease to the MCMG finish was SO cool as it was live. ****3/4 and my new MOTY over the DBD6 4-Way and just in general, honestly one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Sephiroth

_ROH - Rising Above 2008_

*I Quit*: Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ***** 1/2*
*ROH World Title*: Nigel McGuinness(c) vs. Bryan Danielson - *******
Samoa Joe vs. Tyler Black - ******


----------



## AussieFan

*ROH Driven 08:*
Roderick Strong vs Nigel McGuiness

****1/4

Superb match.


----------



## seabs

Sephiroth said:


> _ROH - Rising Above 2008_
> 
> *I Quit*: Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - ***** 1/2*
> *ROH World Title*: Nigel McGuinness(c) vs. Bryan Danielson - *******
> Samoa Joe vs. Tyler Black - ******


*o m g

Watched MCMG/AOTF and Brisoces match over the weekend again. Really can't decide which one is better. Both ****1/2. *


----------



## KingKicks

*Survivor Series 2008

World Heavyweight Championship*
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena

_Fantastic match and currently 2nd on my WWE MOTYC's. Jericho's work on the neck and Cena's selling went perfectly together and i loved Jericho doing extra work with some moves to focus on the neck aswell such as the Walls of Jericho but placing his knee over the neck of Cena. Cena also sold being nervous about going back to the top rope brilliantly. An awesome return for Cena, and even better then i was expecting._

*****1/4-****1/2*


----------



## Jonn

McGuinness/Strong - ROH Driven 2008 - ******


----------



## Devildude

ROH The Tokyo Summit - KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4
ROH Battle Of The Best - Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards - ****
ROH Battle Of The Best - El Generico, Shingo, & Dragon Kid vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & BxB Hulk - ***3/4 (Spot)


----------



## KingKicks

*PWG Life During Wartime*
Chris Bosh vs. Scorpio Sky ****¾-*****
*
PWG Life During Wartime*
Steel Cage Guerrilla Warfare Match
Chris Hero vs. The Human Tornado ******
*
PWG All Star Weekend 7 Night One*
El Generico, Kevin Steen, Susumu Yokosuka vs. PAC and The Young Bucks *****-****¼*


----------



## seabs

*ROH The Tokyo Summit*

*Yoshinobu Kanemaru vs. Bryan Danielson - GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title *
_****1/4-1/2_

*KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima*
_****1/2_


----------



## stinger-splash

Cena vs Jericho (Survivor Series) ***

Like you can see, not really a MOTYC for me


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Glory By Honor VII*

*GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title
Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4*

*Steel Cage Warfare
Briscoes/Aries vs. Age of The Fall vs. Necro Butcher - *****


----------



## Spartanlax

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Ladder Match- *****

The best match I've seen in a long time, and my only five star match this year so far. My MOTY at the moment, and I doubt anything tops it. Incredible innovation and creativeness, fantastic story, and the subtle things (subtle selling, facial expressions, etc) put it on a whole different level.


----------



## Platt

HBK/Y2J Ladder ****


----------



## KingKicks

*Pro Wrestling NOAH - 10/25/08
GHC Junior Heavyweight Title and AJPW World Junior Heavyweight Title Match*
KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji *****¼*


----------



## Maxx Hero

Platt just made Spartanlax look like a little bitch...


----------



## Burning Sword

*ROH Tokyo Summit:*

*GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title:* Bryan Danielson vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru- ****


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Driven 2008*

*ROH World Title Match*
Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong *****¼*
*
ROH World Tag Team Title Match*
Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico *****½*


----------



## Goku

Spartanlax said:


> Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Ladder Match- *****
> 
> The best match I've seen in a long time, and my only five star match this year so far. My MOTY at the moment, and I doubt anything tops it. Incredible innovation and creativeness, fantastic story, and the subtle things (subtle selling, facial expressions, etc) put it on a whole different level.


*







*

Finally someone else has it at five


----------



## Devildude

Benjo™ said:


> *ROH Driven 2008*
> 
> *ROH World Title Match*
> Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong *****¼*
> *
> ROH World Tag Team Title Match*
> Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico *****½*


Good call, I got the same ratings down too.


----------



## AussieFan

****1/4 for Roderick/McGuiness too


----------



## AussieFan

*ROH Supercard of Honor:*
Briscoes vs AOTF - ****


----------



## Taroostyles

ROH Driven

Age Of The Fall vs Kevin Steen/El Generico-****1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

Catching up on some more stuff:

*WxW 16 Carat Gold Tournament Night 3:
Bryan Danielson vs Chris Hero (****1/2)*
~Fantastic arm work by Hero, which unfortunately didn't play a role in the finish, almost being forgotten. But a tremendous technical affair from these two. And a rabid crowd made the atmosphere pretty intense. Heel Danielson > all.


*Chikara Young Lions Cup VI, Night III
Vin Gerard vs Fire Ant - ****1/4-****1/2*


*IWA:MS 500th Show - I Quit Match
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs - ****1/2*
~Another frickin' awesome match between these two. I have their Barbed Wire match also at ****1/2, I think it was marginally better than this, but I still loved it. Sick finish as well!


*ROH Age of Insanity
Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - ****1/4*


----------



## AussieFan

*Turning Point 08:*
X Division Ranking Match - ***1/2+
Beer Money vs MCMG - ****
Angle vs Abyss - **** - ****1/4


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH Glory By Honor VII*

Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico - ****

*wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold Night 2*

Mike Quackenbush vs. Johnny Saint - ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****


----------



## ADN

*ROH Glory By Honor VII*
Bryan Danielson vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4-****1/2
Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - ****
Steel Cage Warfare - ****


----------



## Devildude

*ROH Glory By Honor VII:*

Bryan Danielson vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4


----------



## Saint Dick

Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki - PWG 1/5/08 - ****1/2

Epic.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Driven 08*

*Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ROH World Title *
_****¼_

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH World Tag Team Title *
_****½_


----------



## Bubz

ROH Driven 2008

Roderick Strong vs Nigel Mcguinness - ****1/2 awesome match! loved it!

Steenerico vs AOTF - ****3/4 EVEN MORE AWESOME! my new MOTY, need to see GBH now


----------



## seabs

*ROH Glory By Honour VII*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title *
_****1/4-1/2_

*PWG All Star Weekend 7 Night 1

PAC & Young Bucks vs Steenerico & Yokosuka*
_****1/4_


----------



## TheFox

Some ROH Top 10's from those of you who are up to date with the product, star ratings included, would be appreciated.

My ROH MOTY is still AOTF/MCMG @ **** 3/4 but i still need to catch up on some shows.


----------



## Saint Dick

Batista vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 12/1


----------



## TheFox

Ownage™;6563658 said:


> Batista vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 12/1


Yeah, those guys put on an absolute wrestling clinic, with Ziggler surprising Batista early , after the Animal refused to shake his hand, hitting a superb high leg kick, that managed to fire up Batista who than established himself in this match-up, hitting the spinebuster of doom and than ending the match with a brilliant and perfectly executed power bomb, which he calls the Batista bomb. 

Certenly not a MOTYC, but still better than HHH/Cena from NoC.


----------



## Sephiroth

You guys are joking right? This is the MOTYC thread. Not short 3 minute almost squash match that is a good ONE STAR thread.


----------



## MrPaiMei

TheFox said:


> Some ROH Top 10's from those of you who are up to date with the product, star ratings included, would be appreciated.
> 
> My ROH MOTY is still AOTF/MCMG @ **** 3/4 but i still need to catch up on some shows.


I''ll do one, for whatever reason there's a few really highend matches I havent gotten around to watching yet (MCMG/AOTF mainly, two teams I love IDK why I havent gotten to it) but I've seen most of the pimped stuff so hopefully this can give you a good starting point for stuff to downlo...I mean order from rohwrestling.com.

1) Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - Driven, ****3/4
2) Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black - Death Before Dishonor VI, ****3/4
3) Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson - Respect is Earned II, ****1/2
4) Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico - Age of Insanity, ****1/2
5) BxB Hulk and SHINGO vs. El Generico and Kevin Steen - Supercard of Honor III, ****1/2
6) El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - Return Engagement, ****1/2
7) Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - Respect is Earned II, ****1/4-****1/2
8) Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen - Northern Navigation, ****1/4
9) Katsuhiko Nakajima and Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA and Kota Ibushi - The Tokyo Summit, ****14
10) Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries - Supercard of Honor III, ****1/4


----------



## KingCrash

*wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold Night 1*

Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****

*wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold Night 3*

Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****

Hopefully Quackenbush, PAC, & Hero can join Alex Shelley in the 09 tourney.


----------



## Beer Money Inc.

Age of the Fall vs Kevin Steen & El Generico - my match of the year in ROH


----------



## -Mystery-

KingCrash said:


> *wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold Night 1*
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - ****
> 
> *wXw 2008 16 Carat Gold Night 3*
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - ****1/2 - ****3/4
> Mike Quackenbush vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ****
> Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - ****
> 
> *Hopefully Quackenbush, PAC, & Hero can join Alex Shelley in the 09 tourney.*


WXW has this awesome format for '09. They've got 4 blocks (US, England, Europe, and Japan) made up of I think 4 wrestlers with one alternate. The concept seems pretty cool on paper.


----------



## Sephiroth

_ROH The Tokyo Summit_
KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima - ******

_ROH Glory by Honor VII_
*GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title*: Bryan Danielson(c) vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - ***** 1/2*


----------



## Saint Dick

Sephiroth said:


> You guys are joking right? This is the MOTYC thread. Not short 3 minute almost squash match that is a good ONE STAR thread.


Yes I was joking. I'm slightly insulted that you thought I might have been being serious.


----------



## Sephiroth

Ownage™ said:


> Yes I was joking. I'm slightly insulted that you thought I might have been being serious.


I was fooled by how serious TheFox was...I think he was being serious tho.


----------



## TheFox

I was obviously joking, just went along with Ownage's post and made a mini review of that match just to take a shot at his review on HHH/Cena a while back.

Oh, and thanks MrPaiMei, that tag match from Driven sounds _sweet_.


----------



## Blasko

-Mystery- said:


> WXW has this awesome format for '09. They've got 4 blocks (US, England, Europe, and Japan) made up of I think 4 wrestlers with one alternate. The concept seems pretty cool on paper.


 Daisuke Sekimoto was added for this years, as well. 

I have high hopes.


----------



## -GP-

I dunno, that Batista match might qualify as a MOTYC based purely on the utter awesomness of the name "Dolph Ziggler"...


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Age Of Insanity*
Nigel McGuiness vs. El Generico *****¼-****½*


----------



## TheAce

> Nigel McGuiness vs. El Generico ****¼-****½


Age of Insanity or GBH??


----------



## KingKicks

acedast1 said:


> Age of Insanity or GBH??


My bad. Age of Insanity.


----------



## Devildude

*ROH Glory By Honor VII:
*
Bryan Danielson vs Nakajima - ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - ****


----------



## Saint Dick

MY NAME IS DOLPH ZIGGLER


----------



## -GP-

Ownage™ said:


> MY NAME IS DOLPH ZIGGLER


*extends hand*


----------



## Devildude

*PWG All Star Weekend 7 Night One:*

Steenerico and Susumu Yokosuka vs The Young Bucks and Pac - **** (Spot)


----------



## Maxx Hero

I gave Nigel/Generico ***1/2. I thought it was way drawn out with lariets being thrown randomly. Generico oversold and then came back to life at the last second. It was over done. I really wanted to shut it off at the end it was that bad for me.


----------



## KingCrash

Maxx Hero said:


> I gave Nigel/Generico ***1/2. I thought it was way drawn out with lariets being thrown randomly. Generico oversold and then came back to life at the last second. It was over done. I really wanted to shut it off at the end it was that bad for me.


Which McGuinness/Generico, Age of Insanity or Glory By Honor VII?

*Chikara Tag World Grand Prix 2008 Night 1*

Mike Quackenbush vs. Johnny Saint - ***3/4
Not quite as good as the first but Saint injured himself during the match so they had to finish early

*wXw 18+ - 4/12/08*
PAC vs. Marc Roudin - ****
And this as nothing to do with anything, but Claudio needs to bring Roudin over here and reform Swiss Money Holding on a full time basis.


----------



## Devildude

Going a bit random on my match selection now.

*DG Kobe Wrestling Festival 2008:*

Shingo Takagi vs BxB Hulk - ****1/4

Excellent match with plenty of punishment taken by both wrestlers. The credibility of Shingo's array of Falconry finishers was kinda killed by Hulk's persistant kicking out though, I think he used about 5-6 before the match was done. Two vastly under-rated wrestlers, especially Hulk.

*FIP Redefined 2008:*

Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - ****1/4 - ****1/2

Extremely physical match, though I thought it could of done without the chair shot finish. Goddamn those chops must sting.

Edit: Amagad, 100 posts. The value of lurking eh?


----------



## Groovemachine

ROH Fueling The Fire
Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson vs Motor City Machine Guns - ****1/4

ROH The Tokyo Summit
KENTA & Ibushi vs Marufuji & Nakajima - ****1/4


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Night of the Butcher II*

Nigel McGuiness and Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries ******


----------



## seabs

*PWG Life During Wartime

Chris Hero vs Human Tornado - Steel Cage Guerilla Warfare Match - PWG World Championship*
_****1/4_


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Battle Of The Best*

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness *****1/4*

Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards ******


----------



## Maxx Hero

I watched some good stuff recently...

Marufuji/KENTA ****1/4-Best hour draw I have ever seen. Felt like only 25 minutes. Good work based off the other match. I didn't feel cheated at the result, so they did their job. In the last ten minutes there was a few spots where it should have ended if it wasn't a double title match, but it didn't bother me to much.

KENTA vs. Nakajima ****1/2-This was stiff. The out of ring work was solid, Nakajima will take a bump, gonna be a huge star, the next KENTA. They had superb technichal stuff. I can't remember the end...but that is a good thing because the rewatch will be that much better. But ya, this was my match of the year for the last weak, that is until I watched a match both of these two were also in...

KENTA/Kobashi vs. Sasaki/Nakajima ****3/4-*THE BEST MATCH I HAVE EVER SEEN!* Ya. It will be hard to beat. This was near perfect. Ask me questions if you have them. But you need to go to the media section and get this match. Straight up.


----------



## Sephiroth

Maxx Hero said:


> KENTA/Kobashi vs. Sasaki/Nakajima ****3/4-*THE BEST MATCH I HAVE EVER SEEN!* Ya. It will be hard to beat. This was near perfect. Ask me questions if you have them. But you need to go to the media section and get this match. Straight up.


Have you seen Go/Kobashi vs. Sasaki/Naka? I liked it better than the recent tag with KENTA, but it's still very excellent.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Up For Grabs*

*Roderick Strong and Davey Richards vs. Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson *
_****_

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH World Tag Team Championships * 
_****_


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH The Tokyo Summit*

*Bryan Danielson vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru* ****

Just finished watching this, and would just like to say how much i loved the respect the crowd showed after the match towards Danielson. It wasn't some big ovation when he won like it would be in the States but the way they reacted actually made the moment even more memorable. 1 of my top 5 moments this year in Wrestling for sure.


----------



## Maxx Hero

Sephiroth said:


> Have you seen Go/Kobashi vs. Sasaki/Naka? I liked it better than the recent tag with KENTA, but it's still very excellent.


What was the date? Is it in the other media area? I don't remember seeing it.


----------



## Beer Money Inc.

Kobashi/KENTA v Sasaki/Nakajima 

My new MOTY so far.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Battle For Supremacy*

*Bryan Danielson vs Erick Stevens*
_****_

*Roderick Strong vs Chris Hero*
_****_


----------



## Sephiroth

Maxx Hero said:


> What was the date? Is it in the other media area? I don't remember seeing it.


11/5/05. Easily in the Top 3 NOAH matches. Kobashi/Misawa and Kobashi/Sasaki being the other two. Unless others want to disagree.


----------



## ross_thefloyd

Michaels/Flair - Mania
Angle/Joe - Lockdown
Angle/Jarrett - BFG
Joe/Sting - BFG
Michaels/Jericho - I forget, the one that was called off cause michaels couldn't continue.


----------



## Taroostyles

AJ/Joe/Team 3D vs Sting/Nash/Steiner/Booker T-Final Resolution-****

Most here probably won't agree with the rating but the atmosphere was just awesome and it was an old school 8 man tag that just worked IMO, as far as "big match feel" goes this had it and then some. AJ and Joe were the life of the match obviously but even the old guys did their share and the whole package together was very effective.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH The Tokyo Summit*

KENTA and Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Katsuhiko Nakajima *****¼-****½*

*ROH Glory By Honor VII*

Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima *****½*
_Currently my 3rd favourite match this year. Loved every single second of it, and Danielson's selling of the knee the entire match was fantastic._

Nigel McGuiness vs. El Generico ******

Steel Cage Warfare ******


----------



## AussieFan

AJ/Joe/Team 3D vs Sting/Nash/Steiner/Booker T-Final Resolution

***3/4


----------



## KingCrash

*Chikara - Tag World Grand Prix 08 Night 2*

The Colony vs. The Osirian Portal vs. Martin Stone & PAC - ****

Could have been better if Stone & PAC didn't have an early exit, but a great way to close out the grand prix nonetheless. Apparently drunk German fans love people who dress up as ants.


----------



## AussieFan

*Supercard of Honour 3*
_Dragon Gate 3 on 3 Tag Match_
*Muscle Outlaws vs Typhoon*


Fantastic encounter which was insane from start to finish, i could go higher on this match, but how "you don't have to tag to get in the ring" kind of hurt it for me as there were 3 on 1 at many times and the team of the guy who was getting beaten up weren't entering the ring.

Fast paced action really the star of this match was Dragon Kid. First match ive seen of this guy and i have learned he is phenomenal just like everybody else in this epic tag team match.

Brilliant stuff by all men good showing by Dragon Gate, some of the moves showcased in this match i didn't think were even possible. It was amazing, it was a little spotty but it rubbed off good and gave out some great enthrallment for the 29 or so minutes it lasted. Not once did the pace slow down or did the match dissapoint...Great effort all 6 men in this match, i have *NEVER EVER* seen a match such fast paced as this in my life...The build up to the finish was just phenomenal to say the least, kept the fans on their feet the *WHOLE* time. Phenomenal match, just simply amazing.

*****1/2*​


----------



## Jonn

AJ Styles, Samoa Joe & Team 3D vs. Sting, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner & Booker T - TNA Final Resolution '08 - ****½*


----------



## Mark.

While maybe not a real MOTYC, I thought it was worth mentioning this as one of the best tag matches.

*Kota Ibushi & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs The Briscoes*

Lots of interesting things going into this match: It's been a while since Ibushi's mini tour of ROH where he impressed the hell out of everyone, he's always exciting to see and I've yet to see a bad match from him; I've heard a lot about how good Nakajima is and while I've only seen highlights of him, I'm interested in what a match of his is like; The Briscoes have looked very strong recently, mostly in squash matches so this should be their first big match since Mark returned.

The start of the match was very good. It started off with a little bit of chain-wrestling between Jay and Ibushi, then had a great striking sequence with Nakajima and Mark that showed how tough they both were. The match broke down quickly with The Briscoes separating Ibushi from his partner and just beating the crap outta him. But he managed to fight back enough to create an opening and hit a great dive out of nowhere onto the outside. Ibushi's moves can get predictable after a few matches, but sometimes, like in this match, he knows how to build them up or just use them at the right moments to surprise you. This match was only about 15 minutes, but despite being fast-paced, it was kept simple and I like The Briscoes when they keep it simple. Instead of relying on their predictable combos, they just beat up their opponents and use submissions and I think it works better. They were in complete control in this match, with I think plays off well to the Aries/Ibushi vs Briscoes match. Ibushi and Nakajima were definitely portrayed as underdogs in this since they barely got any offense, but when they did it was more special and they had to give it everything before Jay and Mark took over again. This set up a situation similar to the Aries match, where Ibushi's partner was taken out and he was left by himself to fend against The Briscoes, where they dominated even when he had a partner. He showed his fighting spirit and gave them what he had but ultimately fell victim to them just like before as he got hit with the Springboard Doomsday Device.

This match was all about Ibushi and was probably not the best way to start watching Nakajima as he was pretty much the "there" guy. It could have been anyone else taking his place. It was great nonetheless and it's making me even more interested in an Ibushi/partner vs Briscoes match, just to see if he can learn his lesson and find a way of overcoming them.

******​


----------



## seabs

*Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - ROH Vendetta II*
_****1/4+_


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Return Of The 187*
Go Shiozaki vs. Austin Aries ******


----------



## Devildude

*ROH Ring Of Homicide 2:
*
Chris Hero vs Brent Albright - **** (Probably a little high on first viewing, but I thought it was well-worked.)
Tyler Black vs Jerry Lynn - ***3/4 / **** (12:30 of non-stop action. JL can still go.)


----------



## WillTheBloody

devilh said:


> *ROH Ring Of Homicide 2:
> *
> Chris Hero vs Brent Albright - **** (Probably a little high on first viewing, but I thought it was well-worked.)


People really shit on this on the ROH forums, so this is promising. Any other details about the match you can give?


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Ring Of Homicide 2*
LAX vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe ******

_If you are expecting some crazy MOTYC tag match, you will be disappointed but it is still a very good tag match. Very similar to MCMG/Steenerico from Death Before Dishonor._


----------



## Devildude

WillTheBloody said:


> People really shit on this on the ROH forums, so this is promising. Any other details about the match you can give?


Well, I'll try and upload a couple of matches tonight so you can see for yourself.

Watch this space.


----------



## Tarfu

*Chris Hero vs. PAC - PWG All Star Weekend 7 Night 2.* ****

This is PWG. Chris... is PWG.


----------



## dele

BJW: MEN's Teioh, Onryo, KUDO & Shinobu vs. Makoto Oishi, Yuki Sato & Speed of Sounds (Hercules Senga & Tsutomu Oosugi) - 10.27.2008 - **** - **** 1/4

Freaking awesome high flying match. These guys make Bourne, the Briscoe brothers, and your favorite wrestler look slow and unathletic. Not to mention there's a good portion of sleaze thrown in for good measure. Check it out for yourselves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG9P0MnrjKM


----------



## KingKicks

*WWE Armageddon 2008*

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho ****3/4-*****

Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy *****1/4*


----------



## Beer Money Inc.

CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (Armageddon 2008) will make my WWE top 5 list for this year.


----------



## Maxx Hero

So I haven't watched much wrestling this year...between 40 hours of work a week. and getting enough credits so I can have a triple major in four years, plus finding time for my girl, there isn't much for wrestling...but alas, here are my top matches so far this year.

****3/4 KENTA/Kobashi vs. Sasaki/Nakajima
****1/2 KENTA vs. Nakajima
****1/2 Shingo/Hulk vs. Yoshino/Doi
****1/2 KENTA vs. Marufuji
****1/2 DG Six Man SCOH III
****1/2 World X Cup 12 Man
****1/4 KENTA/Ishimori vs. Suzuki/Marvin
****1/4 Black vs. McGuinness
****1/4 Micheals vs. Flair
****1/4 Briscoes vs. Marufuji & Suigura
****1/4 Danielson vs. Hero
**** Briscoe Brothers vs. AOTF SCOH III
**** Angle vs. Styles
**** Danielson vs. Low Ki
***3/4 Super Smash Brothers vs. The Osirian Portal
***1/2 Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico
***1/2 Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Barb Wire)
***1/4 Steel Cage Warfare 2008
*** Kingston vs. Storm I
*** Kingston vs. Storm II


----------



## seabs

*WWE Armageddon

CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - IC Title Tournament Final*
_***3/4_

*John Cena vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship*
_***3/4+_

*Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - WWE Championship*
_****1/4-1/2_


----------



## Groovemachine

WWE Armageddon:

CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - IC Title Tournament Final
***3/4

John Cena (c) vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship
***3/4

Edge (c) vs Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - WWE Championship
****1/4


----------



## Goku

Batista|Orton ~ *****
Jeicho|Cena ~ *****
Edge|Jeff|Hunter ~ ****1/2*
Punk|Rey ~ ****3/4*


----------



## dele

Seabs said:


> *John Cena vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship*
> _***3/4+_


Really??? The ending, which saw Jericho lock in the Walls for a good two minutes, only for Cena to counter and make Jericho tap in 2 seconds takes away a lot.

*** at the maximum.


----------



## seabs

*Harsh imo.*


----------



## STALKER

**** for Jericho/Cena @ Armageden.
*** 3/4 for the 8 man tag match for the tna world title.


----------



## AussieFan

****3/4 *HHH/Hardy/Edge


----------



## ADN

*WWE Armageddon*
Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - ****
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - ***3/4


----------



## Groovemachine

WXW Dead End VIII
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - ***3/4
~Much like their Battle of the Best match, this sort of seemed like a 'house show' variation of their previous encounters, with a lot less emotion. Still, it's great stuff. I'd really like to find a 'bad' match between them, as so far that concept seems almost impossible.


----------



## seabs

*ROH Fueling The Fire*

*Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Go Shiozaki and Naomichi Marufuji - ROH World Tag Team Title Match*
_****1/2_

*Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs. MCMG*
_****1/2_


----------



## MrPaiMei

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe - Bound By Hate

This was a great first defense for Steenerico, if it provides a pattern for their reign. Match was really well done, best from the Briscoes in a while. EVerything was interestingly set up with cool counters and sequences, spicing up the run into the heat on Generico, which generated heat. From there, we went into the finishing sequence, which was just as original and stylish as the start. Doesn't quite aim as epic as, say, _Driven_, but it didn't need to. Cool but unclimatic finish rounds this off, and I hope whenever the inevitable 3rd rematch comes, it's on PPV and really epic. ****1/4


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH The French Connection*

Davey Richards vs. Roderick Strong ****3/4-*****

Nigel McGuinness vs. Go Shiozaki vs. El Generico vs. Kevin Steen ******


----------



## vivalabrave

*My 2008 TNA Match of the Year
Jeff Jarrett vs. Kurt Angle​*


> One man, fueled by two years of pain, two years of agony, two years of tears, Jeff Jarrett is able to defeat Kurt Angle. And I’ve got to send this shout out to Nashville, Tennessee: Jocelyn, Jaclyn, Jaryn, this one was dedicated to you.
> 
> - Mike Tenay


This was Jarrett’s first match in 17 months. To call it emotional would be an understatement. Mick Foley is the special enforcer.

The buildup to this match was intense to say the least. Angle had become very personal in the weeks leading up to the match. Jarrett’s counter attack was clear. How do you get personal with Kurt Angle? You beat him at his own game. Mat wrestling. But, while Jarrett had the right idea, he was totally overmatched in the beginning of the match. Angle dominates on the ground and paint brushes Jarrett’s head to let him know that he’s in a different world now. He’s not wrestling Raven, or AJ or Sting…he’s wrestling a machine. The “paint brushing” might as well have been Angle brushing what rust Jarrett had off, because at this point Jarrett takes control on the mat. He’s able to hang with everything Kurt throws as Jeff throws Angle over the top. Jarrett even vaults himself over the top rope, showing that he's going all out tonight. You can tell he’s feeling it. He starts to string together his patented offense and even gets in a classic “Jarrett Strut,” but he forgot one thing…he’s in the ring with Kurt Angle. 

Angle hits a huge clothesline and takes back control. Kurt dominates Jeff with a sleeper, the very move that Jeff is known for using so effectively. This isn't so much used as a resthold as much as it's Kurt's way of slowing down a very emotional Jeff Jarrett. It begins to work as Jeff starts to wear down. He hasn’t been in the ring in well over a year and he’s going up against the best in the world. Perhaps this is too soon. Perhaps he should have gone up against a lower caliber of opponent. Perhaps…but he’s not falling…*not tonight*. 

Jarrett uses the biggest advantage he has over Kurt, his veteran instincts. Angle gets too aggressive and runs into the post. Jarrett capitalizes with a DDT. Jeff gets desperate and hits a move I’ve never seen him use, the Blue Thunder Bomb. It’s not enough to put Angle away though as Angle recovers with some patented Angle offense, The belly to belly suplex. Angle’s had more than enough of Jarrett so he goes for his Angle Slam, but Jarrett has it scouted. They battle on the top rope and Jarrett gets his biggest move of the match with a Superplex. He knows he doesn’t have much time so he locks in the Figure Four. Angle sells it like it’s the end, but just manages to reach the ropes. Ankle lock out of no where and Jarrett’s in trouble. He thinks about tapping but he just can’t…*not tonight*. Not after 17 months of Hell. He barely manages to escape, but by that time he’s too worn down emotionally and psychically to recover. Angle Slam and it’s all but over. At least on any other night…but *not tonight*. Angle is more than frustrated so he gets desperate. Very desperate. He goes up for a Moonsault and gets nothing on the way down. It’s anyone’s match now.

Jarrett sits up and starts talking to himself. He knows that this is his last chance. The ref gets knocked out but Jarrett doesn’t hesitate. He can’t against Kurt Angle. Stroke from JJ but there’s no one to count the 3. At that moment, outside enforcer Mick Foley slides into the ring to make the pin attempt but only gets 2. Angle knows he was nearly beat, so he gets even more desperate and hits a low blow behind Foley’s back. It’s time to end this. He grabs a chair but Foley won’t have that. Angle has lost it and annihilates Foley with the weapon. He’ll do anything to win and destroy whatever lies in his path to do it. Chair shot on Jarrrett. He’s done. He has nothing left to give. Perhaps Jeff deserves it. After all, he’s made a living doing what ever it takes to win. Maybe tonight was never his night to begin with… 

But it was. Not even God himself can stop this man...*not tonight*. Mick Foley has stopped the pinfall from taking place. As Foley gains vengeance on Angle, Jarrett knows that it’s now or never. _One final bullet in the chamber._ He grabs the guitar that has been by his side for years, and with all his might he destroys Angle with it. Even the best in the world can’t rise from that. 

Redemption at last…


----------



## KingCrash

*ROH The French Connection*

Nigel McGuinness vs. Go Shiozaki vs. El Generico vs. Kevin Steen - ****

Danielson & Aries vs. Black & Jacobs - ****

*ROH Bound By Hate*

*Dog Collar Match*
Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs - **** - ****1/4

Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. The Briscoe Brothers - ****

*wXw True Colors 2008*

Steve Douglas vs. Tommy End vs. Kenny Omega vs. Davey Richards - ****


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Bound By Hate*

Jimmy Jacobs vs. Austin Aries (Dog Collar Match) *****¼*

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe (World Tag Team Title Match) *****¼*

It's so refreshing to see The Briscoes wrestle a match as heel's.


----------



## seabs

*Bryan Danielson vs Atsushi Aoki - NOAH 15.05.2008*
_****_


----------



## watts63

*EWF Breakin' in The New Year '08*
Bino Gambino vs. Alex Koslov ****1/2


----------



## dele

dele said:


> Really??? The ending, which saw Jericho lock in the Walls for a good two minutes, only for Cena to counter and make Jericho tap in 2 seconds takes away a lot.
> 
> *** at the maximum.





Seabs said:


> *Harsh imo.*


True, imo.

Match of the Year so far:

Teioh/Shinobu vs Mashimo/Madoka ****3/4+


----------



## Devildude

*ROH Bound By Hate:*

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe (World Tag Team Title Match) - ****1/4

*ROH The French Connection:*

El Generico vs Kevin Steen vs Go Shiozaki vs Nigel McGuinness - ****


----------



## stinger-splash

The year is coming to an end, so here's my final top 10: (TNA and most of WWE)

1) Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania) *****
2) AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle (Hard Justice) ****1/2
3) Edge vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania) ****1/4
4) 12-Man Elimination Tag (Victory Road) ****1/4
5) Christian Cage vs Kurt Angle (Against All Odds) ****1/4
6) Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (No Mercy) ****+
7) Abyss vs Kurt Angle (Turning Point) ****+
8) MITB (Wrestlemania) ****
9) Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle (Lockdown) ****
10) Edge vs Undertaker (Summerslam) ****


----------



## seabs

*ROH Death Before Dishonor VI*

*Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright - NWA World Heavyweight Title *
_****1/4_

*Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki *
_****_

*Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley *
_****1/4_
*
Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black - ROH World Title Match*
_****1/2

All after a second watch._


----------



## Burning Sword

dele said:


> Really??? The ending, which saw Jericho lock in the Walls for a good two minutes, only for Cena to counter and make Jericho tap in 2 seconds takes away a lot.
> 
> *** at the maximum.


It gives the STFU and submissions of that extent credibility

*WWE Armageddon: *

Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk- ****1/2-***3/4*
Randy Orton vs. Batista- ****1/2*
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho- ****3/4*
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Edge- ******


----------



## andremt9

CHIKARA Cibernetico Begins
Brodie Lee vs. Hallowicked - *** 1/2


----------



## TakersFan

Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 24) *****
Edge Vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania 24) ****1/4

I dont watch wrestling much anymore, but I did watch Mania 24 live, and enjoyed those 2 matches alot.


----------



## ECW fan

*My top 5 matches of 2008 *

1. Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA - Pro-Wrestling NOAH October 2008 *******

2. KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima - ROH The Tokyo Summit ***** 3/4*

3. Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH New Horizons ***** 1/2*

4. Naomichi Marufuji vs. Roderick Strong - ROH Northern Navigation ******

5. Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI ******

:agree:


----------



## watts63

*EWF Knockdown Drag Out II*
Scorpio Sky vs. Ryan Taylor ****1/4-****1/2

*EWF Independent's Day IV: Revenge Served Cold*
Scorpio Sky vs. Joey Ryan ****-****1/4


----------



## Kapone89

watts63 said:


> *EWF Knockdown Drag Out II*
> Scorpio Sky vs. Ryan Taylor ****1/4-****1/2
> 
> *EWF Independent's Day IV: Revenge Served Cold*
> Scorpio Sky vs. Joey Ryan ****-****1/4


Just one question Watts, is EWF becoming your new favorite promotion?


----------



## watts63

Kapone89 said:


> Just one question Watts, is EWF becoming your new favorite promotion?


Yeah, pretty much.

*EWF Gold Standard II: Raising The Bar*
Brandon Gatson vs. Joey Ryan vs. Mikey Nicholls ****1/2


----------



## Maxx Hero

So I have a problem...

_2 Matches...Same Rating...Different Reasons For Awesomeness_

*Nakajima/Sasaki vs. KENTA/Koboshi* or *Teioh/Shinobu vs Kengo/Madoka*

I watched the later today, and couldn't understand why I was so into the match, and that finish had no business being as hot as it was. One of the nice things was that none of the near falls were forced, and the no sells were minimal. Why do I like this match?!? I hate the guys in it, but it rocked me so hard.

Both were ****3/4...I don't know what I am gonna do. I think I need to rewatch the first one...but ya. Help me WF.


----------



## Blasko

I liked GoBashi vs. K Office a lot more then this years tag, tbh.


----------



## watts63

*EWF Anarchy '08*
Ryan Taylor vs. Nick Jackson ****-****1/4

*EWF Anarchy '08*
Billy Blade & Kadin Anthony vs. David Jones & Ryan Stone ****


----------



## El Conquistador

Pretty sure there has to be at least 1,000 people in attendance at that same event in order for a wrestling match to be considered "good".


----------



## sirdilznik

Top 5 matches this year for me:

*1) Kurt Angle (c) vs. Samoa Joe - TNA Lockdown - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - ****** - Not just match of the year but a match of the decade candidate. Absolutely astounding in it's emotion, execution, artistry, length, and importance. This match included some of the best submission sequences I have EVER seen including the famous Samoa Joe Power Bomb/Boston Crab/STF/Cross Face combo with absolutely PERFECT ring placement (you can see Kurt's hand shaking as he's reaching for the bottom rope and coming up 2 inches short), and the absolutely astounding sequence where Kurt uses the ref's shit to pull himself to the ropes when Joe has him in the Coquina Clutch.

2) Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - TNA Hard Justice Last Man Standing - ****3/4 - Ridiculously amazing match that seemed to go on forever (in a good way) and was punctuated by Kurt's insane Flip Dive off the stage and the mind boggling Super DDT off the top rope by AJ on Kurt that I seriously thought KILLED Kurt for a while.

3) Naruki Doi/Masato Yoshino/Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA/Ryo Saito/Dragon Kid - ROH Supercard Of Honor - ****1/2 - ****3/4 - Ridiculously awesome Super Sprint tag match. Anyone who knows me knpws I love sprints and they don't get much better than this.

4) Edge vs. Undertaker - WWE Summerslam Hell In A Cell - ****1/2 - Amazing hardcore match with crazy spots and false finishes galore.

5) Naruki Doi vs. KENTA - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive - ****1/2 - Amazingly stiff and exciting match. Crazy intensity and awesome false finishes. If it wasn't for the weak ass looking GTS to finish I would be inclined to give it higher than I had.


----------



## Attitude

My match of the year is jericho/hbk NM, I pretty much only watch the E and some TNA anyways. DONT HATE


----------



## -Mystery-

M.W. said:


> Pretty sure there has to be at least 1,000 people in attendance at that same event in order for a wrestling match to be considered "good".


Lol what?


----------



## KingKicks

I doubt i'm going to get anymore 2008 matches watched so here is my final list of MOTYC's for 2008.

*Top 10 of the Year*
*
1. Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong - FIP Redefined - ****¾

2. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE No Mercy 2008 - ****½-****¾

3. Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - ROH Glory By Honor VII - ****½

4. Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH Driven 2008 - ****½

5. Nigel McGuiness vs. Tyler Black - ROH No More Prisoners - ****½

6. Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****½

7.Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara -
Kensuke Office 8/17/08 - ****½

8. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson and Eddie Edwards - NOAH European Navigation - ****½

9. Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****½

10. BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - ****½*​
Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - ROH Fueling The Fire - ****½

Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****½

Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - ROH Return Engagement - ****½

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH New Horizons - ****½

Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Rising Above - ****½

Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Three - ****½

AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle - TNA Hard Justice - ****½

Kenta Kobashi and KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki and Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 6/14/08 - ****½

Team NOAH vs. No Remorse Corps - ROH Southern Navigation - ****½

Nigel McGuiness vs. Austin Aries - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****½

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ****½

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - ROH Tag Wars 2008 - ****½

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Naruki Doi and Masato Yoshino - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****½

KENTA and Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Katsuhiko Nakajima - ROH The Tokyo Summit - ****¼-****½

Nigel McGuiness vs. El Generico - ROH Age Of Insanity - ****¼-****½

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Survivor Series 2008 - ****¼-****½

Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Northern Navigation - ****¼-****½

Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ROH A New Level - ****¼-****½

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show - ****¼-****½

The Undertaker vs. Edge - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****¼-****½

Jimmy Jacobs vs. Austin Aries - ROH Vendetta II - ****¼-****½

Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****¼-****½

Kenta Kobashi and Go Shiozaki vs. Mitsuharu Misawa and Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH European Navigation - ****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ROH Northern Navigation - ****¼

KENTA vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - Kensuke Office 6/13/08 - ****¼

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Go Shiozaki - ROH Fueling The Fire - ****¼

KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH 10/25/08 - ****¼

Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Three - ****¼

Money In The Bank IV - WWE Wrestlemania XXIV - ****¼

Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ROH Driven 2008 - ****¼

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH Southern Navigation - ****¼

Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen - ROH Northern Navigation - ****¼

Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - WWE No Mercy -****¼

Jimmy Jacobs vs. Austin Aries - ROH Bound By Hate - ****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Chris Hero - ROH Battle For Supremacy - ****¼

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black - ROH Breakout - ****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ****¼

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - ROH Bound By Hate - ****¼

Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Genki Horiguchi vs. CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****¼

Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. KENTA and Tajiri Ishimori - DG Gate Of Generation 08 - ****¼

Shingo and BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****¼

Nigel McGuiness vs. Bryan Danielson - ROH Battle of the Best - ****¼

Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - WWE Armageddon 2008 - ****¼

Triple H vs. John Cena - WWE Night Of Champions - ****¼

Nigel McGuiness vs. Roderick Strong - ROH Without Remorse - ****¼

Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries - ROH No More Prisoners - ****¼

Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries - ROH Proving Ground - ****¼

Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage - TNA Against All Odds - ****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****¼

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. SHINGO and BxB Hulk - ROH Dragon Gate Challenge II - ****-****¼

Kurt Angle vs. Abyss - TNA Turning Point 2008 - ****-****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP Hot Summer Nights 2008 - ****-****¼

El Generico, Kevin Steen, Susumu Yokosuka vs. PAC and The Young Bucks - PWG All Star Weekend 7 Night One - ****-****¼

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Kota Ibushi and Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 9/6/08 - ****-****¼

Roderick Strong and Jack Evans vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - PWG DDT 4 2008 Night 2 - ****-****¼

Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens - FIP Dangerous Intentions 2008 - ****-****¼

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black - ROH Supercard Of Honor III - ****-****¼

Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****-****¼

The Undertaker vs. Edge - WWE Summerslam 2008 - ****-****¼

KENTA vs. Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****-****¼

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada - Champions Carnival - ****-****¼

Bryan Danielson vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru - ROH The Tokyo Summit - ****

Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles - TNA Slammiversary 2008 - ****

Raw Elimination Chamber - WWE No Way Out 2008 - ****

Bryan Danielson vs. Erick Stevens - ROH Battle For Supremacy - ****

Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Chris Sabin and Alex Shelley - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI - ****

El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - ROH Return Engagement - ****

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Austin Aries and Kota Ibushi - ROH Tag Wars 2008 - ****

Steel Cage Warfare - ROH Glory By Honor VII - ****

Nigel McGuiness vs. El Generico vs. Kevin Steen vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH The French Connection - ****

John Cena vs. Batista - WWE Summerslam 2008 - ****

Nigel McGuiness vs. Jerry Lynn - ROH Vendetta II - ****

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. AJ Styles - NJPW 2/17/08 - ****

AJ Styles, Christian Cage, Rhino vs. Kurt Angle and Team 3D - TNA Victory Road - ****

CIMA vs. Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk vs. YAMATO vs. Dragon Kid vs. Yasushi Kanda - Dragon Gate DEAD OR ALIVE - ****

BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs - IWA MS 500th Show - ****

Ultimate Endurance - ROH Without Remorse - ****

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Judgment Day 2008 - ****

Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards - ROH Battle Of The Best - ****

Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH Return Of The 187 - ****

Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA - PWG All Star Weekend 6 Night Two - ****

Chris Hero vs. The Human Tornado - PWG Life Before Wartime - ****

Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night One - ****

Nigel McGuiness vs. Claudio Castagnoli - ROH New Horizons - ****

Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuiness and Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Night of The Butcher II - ****

Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Jarrett - TNA Bound For Glory IV - ****

LAX vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - ROH Ring Of Homicide 2 - ****

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

Jay and Mark Briscoe vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 2nd Navigation - ****

Lethal Lockdown - TNA Lockdown 2008 - ****

Ultimate Endurance - ROH Proving Ground - ****

Roderick Strong and Davey Richards vs. Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson - ROH Up For Grabs - ****

El Generico and Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards and Rocky Romero - ROH A New Level - ****

Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008 Night Two - ****

Beer Money INC. vs. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin - TNA Turning Point 2008 - ****

12 Man Elimination - TNA Victory Road - ****

Nigel McGuiness vs. Kevin Steen - ROH Return Engagement - ****

Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage (Six Sides Of Steel)- 3/6 Impact - ****

Roderick Strong vs. Necro Butcher vs. Erick Stevens - 6th Anniversary Show - ***¾-****

Erick Stevens vs. Go Shiozaki - ROH Northern Navigation - ***¾-****

Monster's Ball V - TNA Bound For Glory IV - ***¾-****

Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards - ROH The French Connection - ***¾-****

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Armageddon 2008 - ***¾-****

Jimmy Jacobs and Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH The French Connection - ***¾-****

Necro Butcher vs. Jay Briscoe - ROH Respect Is Earned II - ***¾-****

Shawn Michaels vs. Batista - WWE One Night Stand 2008 - ***¾-****

Chris Bosh vs. Scorpio Sky - PWG Life During Wartime - ***¾-****

Nigel McGuiness and Go Shiozaki vs. Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries - ROH Double Feature - ***¾-****

*Amazingly Danielson was in 22 of the matches above*


----------



## HBKBretHart

My MOTY is HBK/Flair WrestleMania 24.


----------



## dele

Benjo, you need to watch more BJW tbh.


----------



## watts63

*WWECW 1/1/08*
CM Punk vs. Chavo Guerrero ****1/4

*WWE Friday Night Smackdown 4/25/08*
CM Punk vs. Edge ****

*WWE Wrestlemania 24*
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. John Morrison vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. MVP vs. Carlito ****


----------



## KingKicks

dele said:


> Benjo, you need to watch more BJW tbh.


Definitely been thinking about doing so.


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

Everybody needs to watch Dragon vs. KENTA 4,it will blow your mind and possibly become your MOTY.
****1/2-3/4
Here is the youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM3vJISqlqM
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!


----------



## watts63

*RAW 12/15/08*
John Morrison & The Miz vs. CM Punk & Kofi Kingston ****-****1/4

*WWE Armageddon '08*
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio ****


----------



## mateuspfc

There were so many great matches, but I think I will stick with *Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong from FIP Redefined* as my MOTY. No need to explain. HBK-Y2J ladder bout is a close second.


----------



## Clique

*TOP 10 Matches of 2008*

1. Edge v. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - SummerSlam

2. Edge v. Undertaker - WrestleMania 24

3. Ric Flair v. Shawn Michaels (Career Threatening Match) - WrestleMania 24

4. Chris Jericho v. Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match) - No Mercy

5. Edge v. Undertaker (Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match) - One Night Stand

6. Undertaker v. Big Show (Last Man Standing Match) - Cyber Sunday 

7. Edge v. Triple H v. Jeff Hardy - Armageddon

8. Money In The Bank Ladder Match: CM Punk v. Jericho v. MVP v. John Morrison v. Mr. Kennedy v. Shelton Benjamin v. Carlito – WrestleMania 24 

9. SD! Elimination Chamber Match: Undertaker v. Batista v. Finlay v. MVP v. Great Khali v. Big Daddy V - No Way Out

10. RAW Elimination Chamber Match: HHH v. Hardy v. HBK v. Jericho v. Umaga v. JBL - No Way Out


----------



## Goku

Year is coming to a close and my MOTY is still Jericho|Shawn from No Meryc, *******


----------



## watts63

*WWE No Way Out '08*
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy vs. JBL vs. Umaga ****1/2


----------



## AussieFan

*Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries - ROH World Championship - ROH Supercard Of Honour III*

****1/2


----------



## Nervosa

Finally finished my list for this year:

1. AJPW 11/23 Naomchi Marufuji vs. Shuji Kondo AJPW *****

2. ROH 8/2 Tyler Black vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson ****3/4

3. BJW 5/23 MEN’s Teioh/Shinobu vs. Madoka/ Kengo Mashimo ****3/4

4. ROH 3/16 Tyler Black vs. Nigel McGuinness ****3/4

5. FIP 2/16 Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens ****3/4

6. ROH 9/20 Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Bryan Danielson ****3/4

7. ROH 9/14 Katsuhiko Nakajima/Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA/ Kota Ibushi****3/4

8. Kensuke Office 8/8 Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara ****3/4

9. ROH 2/23 Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness****3/4

10. WWE 8/17 Edge vs. Undertaker ****3/4


Other matches that were ****1/2 or higher:

Muscle Outlawz vs. Typhoon(Supercard III) ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho(Ladder Match, No mercy) ****3/4
Pearce vs. Albright (DBDVI) ****1/2
Tanahashi vs. SUWAMA (Carnival Final)****1/2
Nigel vs. Steen(Northern Navigation)****1/2
Kobashi/KENTA vs. Sasaki/Nakajima ****1/2
Nigel vs. Aries(Supercard III)****1/2
Jacobs vs. Whitmer (barbed Wire) ****1/2
El Generico vs. Nigel McGuiness(Age of Insanity) ****1/2
Flair vs. Michaels ****1/2
Danielson vs. Castagnoli (Northenr Navigation) ****1/2
AOTF vs. Steenerico (Driven 2008)****1/2


----------



## AussieFan

*FIP Redefined* - *Strong/Stevens* - *****1/2*


----------



## AussieFan

*ROH Driven 08*

Steenerico vs AOTF - ****1/2+ {Fucking amazing}

Nigel vs Roderick - ****1/4


----------



## Devildude

*My 2008 Top 5 Matches (WWE, FIP and ROH):*

WWE - Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match @ No Mercy)
WWE - Jeff Hardy vs Edge vs HHH (WWE Championship Match @ Armageddon)
FIP - Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong (FIP Title Match @ Redefined)
ROH - Steenerico vs AOTF (ROH Tag Team Title Match @ Driven)
ROH - Brent Albright vs Adam Pearce (NWA Heavyweight Championship Match @ Death Before Dishonor VI)

Meh, making lists for so many decent matches sucks. There could of been 55 let alone 5. I guess I went for matches that I personally invested in as something completely gripping and exciting to watch.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 4 

This was awesome awesome awesome. These two just really wailed on each other the whole time, and if one thing really suprised me for the better, it was how important this felt. Shuji Kondo sits (leaned back, like a straight g) at ringside for the whole bout (and has a bit of a moment with KENTA) while Marufuji watches perched from the back. About 20 minutes in, we cut to Marufuji, only now there's a crew of others watching with him, Misawa included. The crowd is also really into it for non-Tokyo and adds a lot to this intense, dramatic match. What we see is clipped by aboiut 10 minutes I think, but it is undoubtably one of my faves of the year. ****1/2


----------



## Blasko

So, Kondo is officially freelancing with NOAH? 

I think I fainted a little.


----------



## MrPaiMei

No, I don't believe so. At the time, the KENTA/Dragon winner would defend against Marufuji in a double title match, the winner of which was booked to go on to AJPW a week later to defend vs. Kondo.


----------



## Derek

Kondo was there because he wanted to see KENTA in action, since if KENTA beat Marufuji, Kondo would have faced KENTA. I wish Kondo was freelancing, he'd own in NOAH. But he's got a much bigger role now in All Japan, so I can't him going freelancer.


----------



## Blasko

To be fair, almost _everyone_ in All Japan is freelancer. 

But yeah, Kondo in NOAH would be freakin' sweet. Same can be said with KENTA/Kondo.

Oops. I fucked up. :lmao


----------



## KingKicks

*Pro Wrestling NOAH - 10/13/2008
GHC Junior Heavyweight Championship*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA *****½*

VERY close to ****3/4 for me. Fucking awesome match, i'd put it 3rd in their series of matches even though i haven't watched the others in over a year.


----------



## Nervosa

Benjo, which Dragon/KENTA match is your favorite? Mine is Driven.


----------



## KingKicks

Mine is Glory By Honor slightly ahead of Driven. Got Driven at ****3/4 and Glory By Honor at ****3/4-*****.


----------



## mateuspfc

For Christ's sake, WHERE DID YOU GUYS GET KENTA VS. DRAGON '08?! Please, tell me! Thanks!


----------



## vivalabrave

mateuspfc said:


> For Christ's sake, WHERE DID YOU GUYS GET KENTA VS. DRAGON '08?! Please, tell me! Thanks!


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-media/437052-10-13-2008-bryan-danielson-vs-kenta-iv.html


----------



## Blasko

No love for Dragon/KENTA II? 

Don't let the dead crowd fool you, great match.


----------



## casper-21

My Recap:

*MOTY 2008*
1. Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - FIP Redefined (FIP title)
2. KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH 25.10 (GHC junior/THC junior)
3. CIMA, Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Genki Horiguchi - ROH SOH3
4. Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black - ROH Driven (ROH tag)
5. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs KENTA & Kota Ibushi - ROH Tokyo Summit
6. Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - NOAH 13.10 (GHC junior)
7. Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - ROH 6th Anniversary Show
8. Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji - ROH A New Level
9. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Zero-1 Genesis
9 bis. Masato Tanaka vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 28.04 (Z-1 World title)
10. Bryan Danielson vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - ROH GBH7 (GHC junior)
11. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - ROH RIE2 (ROH tag)
12. Masato Tanaka vs Manabu Nakanishi - Zero-1 27.07 Fire Festival
13. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH New Horizons
14. Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - ROH Breakout
15. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk vs Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino - Dragon Gate 15.01 (GHC tag junior)
16. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 02.01 (BJW tag)
17. Naomichi Marufuji vs Roderick Strong - ROH Northern Navigation
18. Takeshi Morishima vs Takashi Sugiura - NOAH 14.06 (GHC World title)
19. Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Fueling The Fire
20. Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH SOH3 (ROH World title)
21. Briscoes vs Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin - ROH Return Engagement
22. Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - ROH Take No Prisoners
23. Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - ROH Take No Prisoners (ROH World title)
24. Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli vs Tyler Black (elimination) - ROH DBD6 (ROH World title)
25. Shingo Takagi vs Susumu Yokosuka - Dragon Gate Gate Of Destiny (Dream gate title)
26. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Gate Of Generation (GHC tag junior)
27. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Taiyo Kea - AJPW 06.04 Champion Carnival
28. Roderick Strong vs Davey Richards - ROH Battle Of The Best
29. Nigel McGuinness vs Roderick Strong - ROH Driven (ROH World title)
30. Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - ROH Return Engagement
31. Briscoes vs Katsuhiko Nakajima & Kota Ibushi - NOAH 06.09 NTV Cup
32. Roderick Strong vs Davey Richards - ROH The French Connection
33. CIMA, Go Shiozaki & Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Rocky Romero - ROH DGC2
34. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW WKingdom (IWGP title)
35. Kohei Suwama vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - AJPW 09.04 Champion Carnival Final
36. Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Northern Navigation
37. Erick Stevens vs Bryan Danielson - ROH Battle For Supremacy
38. Briscoes vs Austin Aries & Kota Ibushi - ROH Tag Wars
39. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Kotaro Suzuki & Ricky Marvin - NOAH 01.06 (GHC tag junior)
40. Undertaker vs Edge (hell in a cell) - WWE Summerslam
41. Masato Tanaka vs Koji Kanemoto - NJPW 13.04 (Z-1 World title)
42. Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa vs Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto - BJW 23.06
43. Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - ROH Vendetta II
44. Sanshiro Takagi vs Kenny Omega (street fight) - DDT 10.08 (Extreme title)
45. A.J. Styles vs Kurt Angle (last man standing) - TNA Hard Justice
46. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs Briscoes vs Jack Evans & Jigsaw vs Brent Albright & B.J.Whitmer (ult. endurance) - ROH Proving Ground (ROH tag)
47. Shingo Takagi vs BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate Kobe World Hall (Dream Gate title)
48. Kenny Omega vs Danny Demanto - JAPW Full F'n Force (JAPW title)
49. Fire Ant vs Vin Gerard - Chikara YLC N3 (YLC)
50. KENTA vs Naruki Doi - Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive
51. Tiger Mask IV vs Prince Devitt - NJPW 08.07 (IWGP junior tourn. final)
52. Ryuji Hijikata vs Kaz Hayashi - AJPW 25.05 (THC junior title)
53. Chris Bosh vs Scorpio Sky - PWG Life During Wartime
54. KAI vs Shuji Kondo - AJPW 20.07 Junior Hw. League
55. Devon Moore vs Danny Havoc - IWA-MS KOTDM Final
56. Masato Tanaka vs Kohei Sato - Zero-1 Spirits 23.09 (Z-1 world title)
57. Jimmy Jacobs vs B.J.Whitmer (no ropes barbed wire) - IWA-MS April Bloodshowers
58. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs Shinsuke Nakamura & Hirooki Goto - NJPW 04.11 (G-1 tag league)


----------



## seabs

*Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - GHC Jr. Heavyweight Championship - NOAH 13.10.2008*

_****1/2+_

*KENTA & Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki & Nakajima - NOAH 14.06.2008*
_****1/2_


----------



## vivalabrave

Barring Dragon/Nigel Rising Above or Dragon/Shima Final Battle reaching it, this is my 1st year since 2003 with no ***** match.

Top Matches of 2008

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 2/23 ****3/4
2. Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita & Kento Miyahara KO 8/17 ****1/2
3. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero WXW 3/9 ****1/2
4. Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright ROH 8/2 ****1/2
5. KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji NOAH 10/25 ****1/2
6. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black ROH 3/16 ****1/2
7. The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black ROH 4/18 ****1/2
8. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 3/30 ****1/2
9. Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA NOAH 10/13 ****1/2
10. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Bryan Danielson ROH 8/2 ****1/2

Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong FIP 2/16 ****1/2
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson ROH 3/16 ****1/2
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima NOAH 6/14 ****1/2
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico ROH 9/19 ****1/2
Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black ROH 6/7 ****1/2
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki PWG 1/5 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries ROH 3/29 ****1/4
KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima ROH 9/14 ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Takashi Sasaki & Yuko Miyamoto BJW 1/2 ****1/4
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Takeshi Morishima NOAH 3/2 ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Jarrett TNA 10/12 ****1/4
The Murder City Machine Gunns vs. The Briscoes ROH 4/19 ****1/4
Takeshi Morishima, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Kenta Kobashi, Tamon Honda & Shuhei Taniguchi NOAH 2/21 ****1/4
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki ROH 2/23 ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles TNA 8/10 ****1/4 
Edge vs. Undertaker WWE 8/17 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. Claudio Castagnoli ROH 7/26 ****1/4
Curry Man/Sabin/Shelley vs. Doi/Milano Collection AT/Puma vs. Williams/Koslov/Dux vs. Guerrero/Bucanero/Averno TNA 7/13 ****1/4
The Undertaker vs. Edge WWE 8/17 ****1/4
Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk DG 1/15 ****1/4
HHH vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga WWE 2/17 ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho WWE 10/5 ****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black ROH 7/26 ****1/4
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer IWA:MS 3/1 ****1/4
Bryan Danielson & Eddie Edwards vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori NOAH 6/21 ****1/4
Muscle Outlawz vs. Typhoon ROH 3/29 ****1/4
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy WWE 10/26 ****1/4
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto ZERO1-MAX 1/1 ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura NJPW 1/4 ****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs. CIMA PWG 1/6 ****1/4
Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico ROH 8/15 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness ROH 9/13 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black ROH 5/9 ****
The Briscoes vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura NOAH 3/2 ****
Chris Hero, Candice LeRae & Necro Butcher vs. Human Tornado Claudio Castagnoli Eddie Kingston PWG 1/5 **** 
Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle TNA 4/13 ****
No Remorse Corps vs. Takeshi Morishima, Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji ROH 5/9 ****
El Generico & Kevin Steen vs. The Murder City Machine Guns ROH 8/2 ****
The Motor City Machine Guns vs. Beer Money TNA 11/9 ****
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ROH 6/7 ****
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries ROH 1/11 ****
Triple H vs. John Cena WWE 6/29 ****
Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs. The Murder City Machine Guns ROH 8/1 ****
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer IWA:MS 4/12 ****
CM Punk vs. MVP vs. Y2J vs. Morrison vs. Kennedy vs. Carlito vs. Benjamin WWE 3/30 **** 
Jeff Hardy vs. HHH WWE 10/5 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru ROH 9/14 ****
Angle/Team 3D vs. Styles/Rhino/Christian TNA 7/13 ****
BxB Hulk/Shingo vs. KENTA/Ishimori DG 3/20 ****
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels WWE 5/18 ****
AJ Styles vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi NJPW 2/17 ****
Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage TNA 1/6 ****
Jacobs/Black vs. Danielson/Aries vs. Whitmer/Albright vs. Romero/Richards ROH 1/26 ****
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki ROH 8/2 ****
Kurt Angle vs. Christian Cage TNA 2/10 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush WXW 3/7 ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black ROH 1/25 ****
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong FIP 7/19 ****
Kurt Angle vs. Abyss TNA 11/9 ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Roderick Strong ROH 1/26 ****
BxB Hulk & Shingo vs. El Generico & Kevin Steen ROH 3/29 ****
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji ROH 8/1 ****
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong ROH 3/29 ****
Roderick Strong vs. Davey Richards ROH 9/13 ****
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho WWE 11/23 ****
Motor City Machine Guns vs. Dick Togo & Hidaka Ikuto ZERO1-MAX 1/1 **** 
Edge vs. Undertaker WWE 4/27 ****


----------



## The Whole F'N Show

Bryan Danielson v Kenta - 13.10.2008
Awesome Kong v Gail Kim - Final Resolution(this could be a biased view cuz I was there and the crowd was so hot)
Edge v Undertaker - 27.4.2008


----------



## seabs

*Keiji Muto vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.10.2008*
_****_


----------



## MrPaiMei

El Generico vs. Tyler Black

How the FUCK is this not getting more talk? 13 minutes or so of perfect work rate, entertaining storty, a hot crowd...what do you want? Nearfalls run exciting without overkill, and it all ties in perfectly to the end. And people said this was dissapointing? Huh? ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## ADN

*NOAH 10/13*
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - ****1/2


----------



## peep4life

MrPaiMei said:


> El Generico vs. Tyler Black
> 
> How the FUCK is this not getting more talk? 13 minutes or so of perfect work rate, entertaining storty, a hot crowd...what do you want? Nearfalls run exciting without overkill, and it all ties in perfectly to the end. And people said this was dissapointing? Huh? ****1/4-****1/2


I feel the same way as you, thought the ending was spectacular. It gets ****1/4 from me.


----------



## mateuspfc

MrPaiMei said:


> El Generico vs. Tyler Black
> 
> How the FUCK is this not getting more talk? 13 minutes or so of perfect work rate, entertaining storty, a hot crowd...what do you want? Nearfalls run exciting without overkill, and it all ties in perfectly to the end. And people said this was dissapointing? Huh? ****1/4-****1/2


Yeah, I thought it was that awesome too. Probably the most underrated MOTY.
****1/4 from me too.
A rematch with 20 minutes or so for the FIP title would be THE shit.


----------



## Maxx Hero

FUCK! So few hours to watch wrestling...ahhhh why is the year ending! What is my MOTY!!!!


----------



## MrPaiMei

Honestly. If I had to geuss (think I said this back when it happened it August) I bet Gabe had Black beating Nigel for the belt at Final Battle (Gabe said he didn't book Nigel/Fuji) then a Black vs. Generico rematch in Chitown for the belt with a batshit crowd where they go all out. Woulda been awesome... as you said, maybe FIP can bring in Generico or something.


----------



## KingCrash

NOAH 10/13
GHC Jr. Heavyweight Championship
*Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - ****1/2*

wXw 18+ Reloaded 2008
No Rope Barbed Wire
*Drake Younger vs. Thumbtack Jack - *****

wXw 18+ 2008
Fans Bring The Weapons
*Danny Havoc vs. Thumbtack Jack - *****

wXw True Colors 2008
*Davey Richards vs. Zack Sabre Jr - ***3/4 - *****


----------



## dele

Happy New Year!

Your match of the year is:

BJW 5/23(?)
Kengo Mashimo and Madoka (C) vs MEN'S Teioh and Shinobu
BJW Tag Titles
****3/4+

Your Hardcore/Deathmatch of the year is:
BJW 6/13
045 Janki's Resurrection: The Carnival of Bloodshed (Jun Kasai's Return Match)
Jaki Numazawa and Jun Kasai vs Takashi Sasaki and Yuko Miyamoto
****1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

NOAH 10/13
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - ****1/2


----------



## seabs

*Erick Stevens vs Chris Hero - FIP World Championship - ROH Night Of The Butcher II*
_****_

*Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness & Claudio Castognoli - ROH Night Of The Butcher II*
_****_

*Bryan Danielson vs Kenny King - ROH Age Of Insanity*
_***3/4_

*Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - ROH World Championship - ROH Age Of Insanity*
_****1/2
(Better than Nigel/Tyler imo)_


----------



## Groovemachine

OK, here's my final list. 



*1) Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 24 - ******

2) Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries - Rising Above - ****3/4

3) Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli vs Tyler Black - DBDVI - ****3/4

4) Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - WWE No Mercy - ****1/2

5) Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - FIP Redefined - ****1/2

6) Nigel McGuinness vs Tyler Black - Take No Prisoners - ****1/2

7) Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - New Horizons - ****1/2

8) KENTA vs Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH 10.25.08 - ****1/2

9) Motor City Machine Guns vs Age of the Fall- Tag Wars 2008 ****1/2

10) BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs [No Rope Barbed Wire match] - IWA:MS April Bloodshowers 2008 - ****1/2 


Honourable Mentions:


Age Of The Fall vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - Respect is Earned II - ****1/2

Kenta vs Bryan Danielson - NOAH 10.13.08 - ****1/2

Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles - TNA Hard Justice ****1/2

KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Bryan Danielson & Eddie Edwards - NOAH European Navigation - ****1/2

Bryan Danielson vs Chris Hero - WxW 16 Carat Gold Tournament Night 3 - ****1/2

Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki - PWG ASW6 Night 1 - ****1/2

Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - Sixth Year Anniversary - ****1/2

Nigel McGuinness vs Austin Aries - SCOH 3 - ****1/2

KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs SHINGO & Naruki Doi - ****1/2

Kobashi, KENTA, Aoki & Ito vs Sasaki, Nakajima, Miyahara & Okita (Burning vs K Office) - ****1/2

Motor City Machine Guns vs The Briscoes - Return Engagement - ****1/2

Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - SCOH 3 - ****1/2

Dragon Gate 6 man - SCOH3 - ****1/2



BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs - I Quit Match - IWA:MS 500th Show - ****1/4-****1/2

Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli - Northern Navigation - ****1/4-****1/2

Vin Gerard vs Fire Ant - Chikara Young Lions Cup VI, Night III - ****1/4-****1/2

Kevin Steen vs Nigel McGuinness - Northern Navigation - ****1/4-****1/2



Age of the Fall vs The Briscoes- SCOH 3 - ****1/4

Edge vs Undertaker HIAC- WWE Summerslam 2008 - ****1/4

Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - Return Engagement - ****1/4

Austin Aries vs Go Shiozaki - Sixth Year Anniversary - ****1/4

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - WWE Great American Bash - ****1/4

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - WWE Unforgiven - ****1/4

Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - Take No Prisoners - ****1/4

Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle - TNA Lockdown - ****1/4

Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufji - A New Level ****1/4

Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black - Southern Navigation - ****1/4

Roderick Strong vs Naomichi Marufuji - Northern Navigation - ****1/4

Brent Albright vs Adam Pearce - DBDVI - ****1/4

Go Shiozaki vs Naomichi Marufuji - DBDVI - ****1/4

Mitsuharu Misawa & Naomichi Marufuji vs Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiozaki - NOAH European Navigation - ****1/4

Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - Respect is Earned II - ****1/4

World X-Cup 12-man tag - TNA Victory Road 2008 - ****1/4

Nigel McGuinness vs El Generico - Age of Insanity - ****1/4

KENTA & Ibushi vs Marufuji & Nakajima - ****1/4

Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji vs Age of the Fall - Fueling the Fire - ****1/4

Davey Richards vs Naomichi Marufuji- Final Battle 2007 - ****1/4

Edge vs Undertaker - WWE Wrestlemania 24 - ****1/4

Jeff Hardy vs HHH vs Edge - WWE Armageddon - ****1/4

Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - Vendetta II - ****1/4


----------



## Devildude

*Noah 13/10:*

KENTA vs Bryan Danielson (GHC Jr. Heavyweight Match) - ****1/2

Also, was it just me or was Nigel McGuinness ringside in Bryan's corner for that match? Or did someone steal his haircut and pose as him?


----------



## Derek

It was Nigel. The gaijin tend to be in each others corner for big matches.


----------



## seabs

*KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufuji & Ricky Marvin - 2/3 Falls - NOAH 27.09.2008*
_****1/2-3/4_


----------



## Blasko

Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero from the 24 Carrot Tournament is my MOTY, standing at ***** stars.


----------



## AussieFan

*ROH MOTY:*

*Driven 08*
_Steenerico vs AOTF_
*
WWE MOTY:*
*
WM 24*
_Shawn vs Ric Flair_
*
TNA MOTY:*

*Hard Justice*_
Angle vs AJ Styles - LMS_


----------



## ADN

WWE MOTY: Taker/Edge HIAC - ****1/2
TNA MOTY: Syles/Angle HJ - ****1/2
ROH MOTY: Danielson/Nigel 6AS - ****1/2-****3/4 (Waiting for Danielson/Morishima FB 08 and Danielson/Nigel RA though)


----------



## seabs

*NOAH Shiny Navigation 06.09.2008*

*Akihiko Ito & Ippei Ota vs. Ricky Marvin & Eddie Edwards *
_****_

*Bryan Danielson & Davey Richards vs. 
Naomichi Marufuji & Kento Miyahara - Nippon TV Cup Jr. Heavyweight Tag League *
_***3/4_

*Jay Briscoe & Mark Briscoe vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima & Kota Ibushi - Nippon TV Cup Jr. Heavyweight Tag League*
_****+_

*Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Kotaru Suzuki vs KENTA & Taiji Ishimori - 1st Fall - Tag Team Tournament Tie-Breaker Match, 2nd Fall - Nippon TV Cup Jr. Heavyweight Tag League*
_***3/4_

*Takeshi Morishima vs. Kensuke Sasaki - GHC Heavyweight Title *
_****_


----------



## AussieFan

Is anybody going to make a 2009 edition of this thread?


----------



## Goku

Do you have a 2009 MOTYC yet ?


----------



## mateuspfc

*SmackDown! 02/01/09*
MVP vs. Kizarny ****3/4

Now THAT is the way for a new star to debut. [/joke]


----------



## Goku

Indeed. Be thankful the match wasn't a DUD.


----------



## seabs

*Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs Shingo Takagi & BxB Hulk - GHC Junior Tag Titles - DragonGate 15.01.2008*
_****1/2_


----------



## Saint Dick

*WWE Top 10*
1. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
2. Edge vs Undertaker - SummerSlam - ****1/2
3. Edge vs Undertaker - WrestleMania 24 - ****1/4
4. Raw Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****1/4
5. Triple H vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
6. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - No Mercy - ****
7. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy - ****
8. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Judgment Day - ****
9. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven - ****
10. Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - Armageddon - ****


----------



## stinger-splash

Final Top 5

1) Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania) *****
2) AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle (Hard Justice) ****1/2
3) Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania) ****1/4
4) Abyss vs Kurt Angle (Turning Point) ****1/4
5) 12-Man Elimination Tag (Victory Road) ****1/4


----------



## seabs

*Beer Money Inc vs MCMG - TNA World Tag Team Championships - TNA Turning Point 2008*
_****1/4_

*Kurt Angle vs Abyss - Falls Count Anywhere - TNA Turning Point 2008*
_****+_

*Still got some 08 stuff to watch but pretty sure nothing else part from Danielson/Nigel from Rising Above will break into my top 5.*

*1) Roderick Strong vs Erick Stevens - FIP World Heavyweight Championship - FIP Redefined*
_****1/2-3/4_

*2) Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair - WWE WrestleMania 24*
_****1/2+_

*3) KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufuji & Ricky Marvin - 2/3 Falls - NOAH*
_****1/2+_

*4) Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - ROH World Heavyweight Championship - ROH 6th Anniversar Show*
_****1/2+_

*5) Undertaker vs Edge - Hell In A Cell - WWE Summerslam 2008*
_****1/2_


----------



## AussieFan

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2008*
_Brian Danielson vs Chris Hero_

****1/2

Hero owns!


----------



## volcanic

I was considering waiting until I'd seen Final Battle to make this, but whatever, here it is:

*2008 MOTY list final*:

1. (SEM) Kobashi, KENTA, Aoki & Ito vs Sasaki, Nakajima, Miyahara & Okita - **** 3/4
2. (ROH) McGuinness vs. Aries - Supercard of Honor III - **** 3/4
3. (NOAH) Kensuke Office vs. Kobashi & KENTA 06/14/08 **** 1/2
4. (ROH) Marufuji & Nakajima Vs. KENTA & Ibushi - The Tokyo Summit - **** 1/2
5. (WWE) Flair vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 24 - **** 1/2
6. (BJW) Tanaka vs. Sekimoto - 04/28/08 - **** 1/2
7. (ROH) CIMA, Dragon Kid, Saito vs. Horiguchi, Yoshino, Doi - Supercard of Honor III - **** 1/2
8. (ROH) McGuinness vs. Danielson - 6th Anniversary Show - **** 1/4-**** 1/2
9. (FIP) Stevens vs. Strong - Redefined - **** 1/4
10. (ROH) McGuiness vs. Black - Take No Prisoners - **** 1/4


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## StylinProfilin

1. MOTY= Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Suwama- AJPW Champions Carnival 08

2. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura- IWGP Title, Wrestle Kingdom II

3. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Keiji Mutoh- AJPW Champions Carnival 08

4. Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels- Wrestlemania 24

5. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy- 2008 Royal Rumble

Tanahashi made my top 3 and MOTY. I'm not bias towards Tanahashi at all. Tana just really lit it up this year.


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## MrPaiMei

Doi/Hulk/Madoka vs. SHINGO/Kidou/Saito - ****1/4
Gamma/Kanda/Genki vs. Saito/Susumu/Kidou vs. Hulk/Tanisaki/m.c.KZ (Unit Split) - ****/****1/4
SHINGO vs. Doi - ****/****1/4


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## seabs

*Bryan Danielson vs CIMA - PWG All Star Weekend Night 2*
_****1/2_

*SHINGO vs BxB Hulk - Dragongate 27.07.2008*
_****1/4+_

*KENTA vs Takeshi Minamino - Kensuke Office 06.11.2008*
_***3/4+_

*Katshuhiko Nakajima vs Atsushi Aoki - Kensuke Office 06.11.2008*
_****_


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## TheUnholyDragon

GHC Jr. Title - Bryan Danielson (c) vs. KENTA - ****1/2

What. A. Match. I was waiting for this one to hit the net, and it didn't disappoint. I may be the only one to see this, but it felt a lot like the 04 Kobashi vs. Akiyama match to me. Danielson fought hard when he should have fought smart. When he took his time and focused he could dodge KENTA's assault, and he took apart his leg nicely when he got a shot at it. But instead of sticking to that, he went for the bombs and KENTA gutted it out until he could put Danielson away.

I actually think KENTA outworked Danielson here. He took apart his abdomen nicely, beating the hell out of him with a TON of hate. Danielson may have sold it like a champ and delivered a hot closing sequence, but the way he abandoned a major opening in the hurt leg to go to his usual sequence of bombs irked me. A figure four or the Regal Stretch could have worked with it better. Hell, using the Regalplex would at least take advantage of the injury. It just seems like he threw out a perfectly good target for the sake of hitting his stuff, which is the mark of a lesser wrestler. Still one of the best matches I've seen in ages though.


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## Spartanlax

So, barring my viewing of Hero/Danielson from WXW which I still got sitting there, I think my MOTY for 2008 is Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Ladder Match at ****3/4 or *****. 

Oh, and a shocker MOTYC to me- Kingston vs Jericho from Night Of Champions. I bet most will disagree, but I got it at around ****1/4+. Fantastic work from Jericho, and of course Kingston. Completely old school with great timing and execution on everything.


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## dele

Yuko Miyamoto vs Shadow WX (c)
Exploding Barbed Wire Trap Deathmatch
***-***1/2
Bigger spread because of the year and a half build up of Miyamoto finally winning a title.


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## CactusBoehm

My list for matches of the year:

1. WWE No Mercy - Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - Ladder Match - World Title
2. TNA Lockdown - Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle - Six Sides of Steel - World Title
3. WWE Summerslam - Undertaker vs Edge - Hell in a Cell
4. TNA Hard Justice - AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - Last Man Standing
5. RoH Driven - Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Age of the Fall - Tag Titles
6. WWE Wrestlemania - Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair
7. RoH Ring of Homicide II - Briscoes vs LAX
8. RoH Bound By Hate - Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - Dog Collar Match
9. RoH Death Before Dishonor VI - Kevin Steen & El Generico vs Murder City Machineguns
10. TNA Bound for Glory - Beer Money Inc vs Team 3D vs Abyss & Morgan vs LAX - Monster's Ball - Tag Titles

Potential Top 10 Matches I still am waiting on: 
RoH Rising Above - Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson
RoH Rising Above - Austin Aries vs Jimmy Jacobs - I Quit
RoH Final Battle - Bryan Danielson vs Taskeski Morishima - Fight Without Honor
RoH Final Battle - Briscoes vs Kensuke Office


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## dele

Match of the year for me:
MEN'S Teioh and Shinobu vs Kengo Mashimo and Madoka - ****3/4+


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## alx1880

Marufuji vs Kenta ****1/4


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## SuperDuperSonic

Bit behind, here's my final list.

2008 ****+ Matches

WWE and TNA are within the calendar year, whereas all other companies went November to September. For 2009, WWE and TNA will be the same, but the other companies will be October to September.

ROH:
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson [Glory By Honor VI Night 1 - 11/2/2007] ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson [Glory By Honor VI Night 2 - 11/3/2007] ****¾
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. KENTA [Glory By Honor VI Night 2 - 11/3/2007] ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries [Rising Above 2007 - - 12/29/2007] ****¾
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Davey Richards [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****¼
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****
Takeshi Morishima vs. Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero [Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/2007] ****
Erick Stevens vs. Austin Aries [Proving Ground 2008 - 1/11] ****
Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson [Breakout - 1/25] ****¼
Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico [Without Remorse - 1/26] ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Roderick Strong [Without Remorse - 1/26] ****
Austin Aries vs. Go Shiozaki [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] ****¼
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens vs. Necro Butcher [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] ****¼
Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson [Sixth Anniversary Show - 2/23] *****
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson [Take No Prisoners 2008 - 3/16] ****½
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black [Take No Prisoners 2008 - 3/16] ****¾
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino [Dragon Gate Challenge II - 3/28] ****½
Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black [Dragon Gate Challenge II - 3/28] ****
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****
Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****¼
Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****¾
CIMA, Dragon Kid, & Ryo Saito vs. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, & Genki Horiguchi [Supercard of Honor III - 3/29] ****
Davey Richards vs. Kota Ibushi [Bedlam in Beantown - 4/11] ****
Briscoe Bros. vs. Kota Ibushi & Austin Aries [Tag Wars 2008 - 4/18] ****
Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs. Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black [Tag Wars 2008 - 4/18] ****
Briscoe Bros. vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley [Return Engagement - 4/19] ****
Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico [Return Engagement - 4/19] ****
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black [Southern Navigation - 5/9] ****¼
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Bryan Danielson [A New Level - 5/10] ****
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Respect is Earned II - 6/7] ****
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Austin Aries & Bryan Danielson [Respect is Earned II - 6/7] ****
Necro Butcher vs. Jay Briscoe [Respect is Earned II - 6/7] ****
Jimmy Jacobs vs. Austin Aries [Vendetta II - 6/28] ****½
Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli [Northern Navigation - 7/25] ****¼
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Roderick Strong [Northern Navigation - 7/25] ****¼
Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen [Northern Navigation - 7/25] ****¼
Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson [New Horizons - 7/26] ****½
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Go Shiozaki [Fueling the Fire - 8/1] ****¼
Adam Pearce vs. Brent Albright [Death Before Dishonor VI - 8/2] ****¾
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Go Shiozaki [Death Before Dishonor VI - 8/2] ****¼
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley [Death Before Dishonor VI - 8/2] ****
Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli [Death Before Dishonor VI - 8/2] ****½
Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico [Age of Insanity - 8/15] ****¼
Yoshinobu Kanemaru vs. Bryan Danielson [The Tokyo Summit - 9/14] ****¼
KENTA & Kota Ibushi vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Katsuhiko Nakajima [The Tokyo Summit - 9/14] ****½
Nigel McGuinness vs. Roderick Strong [Driven 2008 - 9/19] ****
Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico [Driven 2008 - 9/19] ****¾
Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima [Glory By Honor VII - 9/20] ****¼

FIP:
Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong [Redefined - 2/16] ****¾
Roderick Strong vs. Erick Stevens [Dangerous Intentions 2008 - 4/26] ****
Erick Stevens vs. Go Shiozaki [Heatstroke 2008 - 8/23] ****¼

NOAH:
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama [Great Voyage 2007 - 12/2/2007] ****¼
Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura vs. Briscoe Bros. [Navigate For Evolution 2008 - 3/2] ****
Kenta Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima [Great Voyage 2008 in Yokohama - 6/14] ****½
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Bryan Danielson & Eddie Edwards [European Navigation 2008 - 6/21] ****
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs. Ricky Marvin & Naomichi Marufuji [9/27] ****

Kensuke Office:
KENTA vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima [Dash the Volcano Road Vol. 2: Take the Dream Vol. 5 - 6/13] ****

SEM:
Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki, & Akihiko Ito vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita, & Kento Miyahara [8/17] ****½

Dragon Gate:
Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo & BxB Hulk [Infinity 77 - 1/15] ****½
Shingo & BxB Hulk vs. KENTA & Taiji Ishimori [Gate of Generation - 3/20] ****¼
KENTA vs. Naruki Doi [Dead or Alive - 5/5] ****

BJW:
Makoda & Kengo Mashimo vs. Men’s Teioh & Shinobu [5/23] ****¾

PWG:
Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki [All Star Weekend VI Night 1 - 1/5] ****½
CIMA vs. Bryan Danielson [All Star Weekend VI Night 2 - 1/6] ****¼

wXw:
Bryan Danielson vs. Mike Quackenbush [16 Carat Gold 2008 Night 1 - 3/7] ****½
Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji [16 Carat Gold 2008 Night 2 - 3/8] ****¼
Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero [16 Carat Gold 2008 Night 3 - 3/9] ****½
Bryan Danielson vs. Bad Bones [16 Carat Gold 2008 Night 3 - 3/9] ****

IWA-MS
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs [500th Show - 3/1] ****¼
BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs [April Bloodshowers 2008 - 4/12] ****½

TNA:
Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles [Hard Justice - 8/10] ****

WWE:
Royal Rumble match [Royal Rumble - 1/27] ****
Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels [Raw - 2/11] ****
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels [WrestleMania 24 - 3/30] ****
Edge vs. Undertaker [WrestleMania 24 - 3/30] ****
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels [Judgment Day - 5/18] ****¼
Triple H vs. John Cena [Night of Champions - 6/29] ****½
Edge vs. Undertaker [SummerSlam - 8/17] ****¼
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho [Unforgiven - 9/7] ****
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy [No Mercy - 10/5] ****½
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels [No Mercy - 10/5] ****¾
Undertaker vs. Big Show [Cyber Sunday - 10/26] ****


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## LoVeRiCe

The post its amazing


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## WillTheBloody

I thought the was the '09 thread. I was so fucking confused for a second. DAMN YOU!


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