# Young Bucks Troll Cornette & 'Haters'



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The first 1min 30sec. It's all in metaphor. Nick Jackson = AEW. Matt Jackson = The Wood & Dude

? ? ?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

That was basically the Bucks in a nutshell. Nick walked away after less than one minute of criticism. If anything, they managed to troll themselves. Their argument is basically, "we worked hard and spent money, therefore it must be good!"


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

I used to like the Bucks but everything they have done in AEW has made me dislike them its almost like they think they're above everyone


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

They did the same thing after that terrible Dark Order segment, every time AEW gets called out about it they try to make a joke out of it, but it makes them look like over sensitive teenagers.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Haha, I’m not going to watch that. How is it trolling me if I don’t even see it? And how insane to think I’m on their level and someone they would give attention to. I also _guarantee_ that Jim Cornette is not a regular viewer of BTE. This is playing to their crowd. Swing and a miss.

EDIT: And I really love, and am a bit surprised, to be honest, how every post in here is someone pointing out how cringe they are/have become. How the crows have come home...


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cornette's criticisms are often true though and are constructive. What's the problem with that?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette's criticisms are often true though and are constructive. What's the problem with that?


If you criticize AEW you need to do a big throat-clearing about how wonderful they are or you’re “toxic.”


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

That Omega/Page segment should be on Dynamite not on BTE. That part of the reason why people can't get invested in some of these stories because a lot of the story is told on YouTube, not on TV.

And yeah, the Bucks and Kenny need to be able to take constructive criticism better. They act like they're always right.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

For me that first minute and a half is why I can't get into them. Like why is that funny? Even in on the joke I can't see why it'd be more than a light chuckle. Maybe they do have real laughs, but it's like the posts I come across are mild shots.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Haha, I’m not going to watch that. How is it trolling me if I don’t even see it? And how insane to think I’m on their level and someone they would give attention to. I also _guarantee_ that Jim Cornette is not a regular viewer of BTE. This is playing to their crowd. Swing and a miss.
> 
> EDIT: And I really love, and am a bit surprised, to be honest, how every post in here is someone pointing out how cringe they are/have become. How the crows have come home...


Yeah Cornette has said many times he will not watch even pre-shows or anything not on TV. No way he has ever watched YouTube. He has never even watched the WWE Network.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

I don't blame the Bucks at all. Social media has become very toxic, filled with "fans" who think they know more than the people who are actually involved in the business. Better to tune out the negative rabble and simply focus on what's important: producing a quality product for the fans who appreciate and enjoy AEW.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Jazminator said:


> I don't blame the Bucks at all. Social media has become very toxic, filled with "fans" who think they know more than the people who are actually involved in the business. Better to tune out the negative rabble and simply focus on what's important: producing a quality product for the fans who appreciate and enjoy AEW.


They gave out their own criticism for years but cannot take it. Let me know when they are directly responsible for producing a quality segment on the product.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

12 posts in before someone is actually on their side. More and more it is becoming clear...

People are not different. Social media just gives people a platform. If you want to exist in the public sphere, exist in the public sphere. It is pretentious and douchey to talk about reality as if it is "poisonous" to your very being or whatever. 

Actors, singers, politicians, writers, wrestlers -- anyone who is a public figure at all -- has always been criticized by people, the media, television, satire, others, professional critics, newspapers, their families, etc. It has happened since the dawn of time. You know what they had? Resilience and a fucking awareness of their position in society. 

People on here are abusing people like me and The Dude and Rainmaker all the time. Garty made a thread showing how obsessed he is with me. He tallied my posts and copied and pasted them to talk about how he thinks he can clinically assign me the status of being a narcissist, like it even fucking matters. Who cares if I were? Do I run off the boards and hide because it's "toxic?" No. I fucking saddle up and tell people why that's wrong, stupid, foolish or whatever, because I'm not so insecure I need society to be a fucking electric blanket to my self-esteem. 

And I'm not mocking people with mental issues who find this sort of stuff hard. That's fine, and they deserve respect. But what they don't need is a public platform to wheel themselves out there so they can make a big dramatic display about how they want to be wheeled out.

Here's the thing, Young Bucks. If you can't handle the spotlight, get the fuck out of it.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Jazminator said:


> I don't blame the Bucks at all. Social media has become very toxic, filled with "fans" who think they know more than the people who are actually involved in the business. Better to tune out the negative rabble and simply focus on what's important: producing a quality product for the fans who appreciate and enjoy AEW.


Social media can certainly be toxic that's for damn sure. But it's also ironic and hypocritical that they now consider things toxic when they're the targets. When they were using BTE to joke on WWE and point out their flaws everything was fine. It more so seems like they can dish it out, but they can't take it.


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## Uchiha Ghost (Nov 16, 2019)

In what world do the Young Shits troll Jim Cornette? They should also stop doing any form of "comedy", since that requires a certain level of charisma. Something neither of this two pieces of shits possess, or displayed.


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## Bloody Warpath (Jan 6, 2020)

I have tried on multiple occasions to watch BTE over the past year and a half, and I just cannot do it. Their comedy and humor just do nothing for me. Maybe this is why I have issues getting I to Dynamite, I am not the type of fan that they cater to.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Their comedy is actually offensive. Not in terms of the content is un-PC or anything, but their attitude that they are so fucking funny is like the AV club at school snort-laughing at their own jokes while everyone else rolls their eyes. 

And they'd be getting paid seven figures to ass off like this. There are fucking starving people with actual talent. There are struggling comedians that have to see this money-mark fork out millions to prop these guys up and give them the stage they've got. It actually deserves resentment. A couple of millionaires whinging and telling jokes about how mean people are to them.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Bloody Warpath said:


> I have tried on multiple occasions to watch BTE over the past year and a half, and I just cannot do it. Their comedy and humor just do nothing for me. Maybe this is why I have issues getting I to Dynamite, I am not the type of fan that they cater to.


I feel like they just missed me age wise.I liked the old Miz and Morrison The Dirt Sheet shorts and I'm from the Jackass, Viva La Bam, and early Adult Swim era of TV. But now that type of purposefully dumb humor is just meh.


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## Bloody Warpath (Jan 6, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> I feel like they just missed me age wise.I liked the old Miz and Morrison The Dirt Sheet shorts and I'm from the Jackass, Viva La Bam, and early Adult Swim era of TV. But now that type of purposefully dumb humor is just meh.


Sounds like we are in the same boat


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Gh0stFace said:


> The first 1min 30sec. It's all in metaphor. Nick Jackson = AEW. Matt Jackson = The Wood & Dude
> 
> ? ? ?


What you have read above my post, I'm sure as below my post, is of the same "opinion" criticism, as those who criticize their opinion criticism, with their own opinion criticism, calling them childish, babies, pussies, etc. for pointing out what is clearly becoming, an "I know you are, but what am I" carousel of never-ending opinions. Keep spinning guys. Keep spinning.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

I have no issue with people dishing it out, but if you're going to do that, then you need to be able to take it; they have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cannot, so it's hard to take any of this seriously.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Garty said:


> What you have read above my post, I'm sure as below my post, is of the same "opinion" criticism, as those who criticize their opinion criticism, with their own opinion criticism, calling them childish, babies, pussies, etc. for pointing out what is clearly becoming, an "I know you are, but what am I" carousel of never-ending opinions. Keep spinning guys. Keep spinning.   [emoji99]


This isn't as witty as you intended it to be


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Garty said:


> What you have read above my post, I'm sure as below my post, is of the same "opinion" criticism, as those who criticize their opinion criticism, with their own opinion criticism, calling them childish, babies, pussies, etc. for pointing out what is clearly becoming, an "I know you are, but what am I" carousel of never-ending opinions. Keep spinning guys. Keep spinning.


And the Bucks have their own opinion criticism. The difference is, none of us are deleting our accounts when we are criticized by online opinions and then make lame attempts at humor on a podcast that really just reinforces the entire point against them.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

"The fans don't matter, we are getting paid so we will do what we want"

@Garty @Gh0stFace They don't care about your opinions either, just so you know.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Bucks leaving Twitter was a bitch move. Calling Kenny soft for bringing up the fact that a lot of the criticism about the women’s division is about the ladies not being hot, aka big boobed blondes, or things of that nature. The Bucks weren’t even being specifically blamed for the Dark Order segment, and they ran and hid.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The fuck are you talking about, Garty? You know some people have honest-to-god reasons for thinking what they think. Not everything is a subjective mess of nonsense.


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

maybe if the young bucks took criticism and feedback they wouldnt do the same 5 moves over and over for the past 5 years. Fuck those guys. they represent everything wrong with modern wrestling.... young buck fans have no idea how much damage they do to the overall product with their selfish bullshit in the ring.


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## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

Corny has rustled these guys to the point they have to cut poor promos ???


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

taker1986 said:


> That Omega/Page segment should be on Dynamite not on BTE. That part of the reason why people can't get invested in some of these stories because a lot of the story is told on YouTube, not on TV.
> 
> And yeah, the Bucks and Kenny need to be able to take constructive criticism better. They act like they're always right.


as opposed to the ‘fans’ that think they’re always right?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cornette's bit on Kenny Omega this week is amazing. He was responding to a question about Omega's take on critics being ignored, and as you can bet, it was hilarious. Trashed him as a booker and said he's been exposed because shit that gets over in Japan is different to shit that gets over in the States, and Omega was told what to do by smart people in Japan, doesn't understand it himself, and that's why everyone is saying "What's happened to Kenny Omega?" He was never that good and now it's showing.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> as opposed to the ‘fans’ that think they’re always right?


If a fan is right, that fan is right. If someone is like "Hey, Kenny -- the Women's Division isn't working," that fan is right on the money. If they can explain why, and it makes sense, then that just goes further to prove that they are right and know why they're right.

That doesn't mean they're always right. But hidden in the way you've phrased that is the dismissal of the critic as opposed to the criticism itself. A lot of AEW fanboys do it on here when they label someone a troll, or say they're mean, or they "sound arrogant" (what does that even mean when you're looking at a wall of text?), or they make a thread about how they think they've got personality disorders. This is called ad hominem. That's what Omega does when he calls critics classless and disrespectful, right? He doesn't want to deal with the actual issue -- the Women's Division isn't working -- so he goes after the quality of character he assumes in people that don't like his Women's Division. 

This gets an extra layer added to it when the person arguing ad hominem will go out of their way to tell you that's not what you're doing. It's just the _way_ the argument is said. What they are really saying is "I don't like you and I want people to think you're bad so they don't take your argument seriously," but they'll try and phrase it like it's your fault and they look like a babyface. These people will also reference criticism elsewhere. Criticism they do like. "It's not that I can't deal with people having a different opinion to me, it's that _you_ do it wrong." In their mind, and in their posturing, this allows them to fallaciously dismiss your points in an unreasonable way while pretending to be perfectly reasonable. 

That's what Omega does when he talks about "constructive criticism." This is criticism that, in his mind, or to his fans or whatever, means he's not close-minded or dismissing criticisms of his division because he's an egomaniac. What he attempts to do with this is make him sound like a babyface that doesn't mind being reasoned with, but critics are unreasonable, so he's not going to reason with them. 

It's also like when there's a tragedy and people (usually conservatives) attempt to step away from discussing the causes of that tragedy by accusing the other party of being unscrupulous in "politicizing" the issue. Ironically, that is politicizing the issue, right? When these ad hominem attacks are masked as reason, ironically they are being unreasonable.

To steer it back to you: You are trying to dismiss the criticism from the "fans" in two ways here. You're putting "fans" in quotation marks, because you want them to be perceived as liars. They're posers. They're not really fans. They are cons. You also try to paint them with a brush of arrogance because they think they're always right. You've tried to insult people twice there instead of talking about their actual arguments. 

But we see through you. I think more and more people are starting to see through the manipulative tactics of AEW fanboys and even some of the AEW executives themselves. That's why The Bucks have been called hypocrites by a lot of people, and Omega is also turning off people with his insincere "sincerity" about wanting to present a better product.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Just turn off the TV already. Stop watching and stop discussing something you find so unenjoyable, man.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't often watch. And don't tell other people how to live their lives. I enjoy talking about wrestling -- not just good wrestling, but bad wrestling. In fact, I LOVE talking about bad wrestling. There's so much of it! People don't need to live life according to your standards and with your values.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

So this week’s BTE carries a metaphor observing the petty nature of some wrestling fans. And these sensitive fans respond with posts about how sensitive the Bucks are! Take that Bucks’!!



Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette's criticisms are often true though and are constructive. What's the problem with that?


“"I swear to God if I saw Kenny Omega right now I'd slit his fucking throat". Jim Cornette is a hypocritical hack who only appeals to the carny boomer generation. He wouldn’t know what constructive criticism was if it kicked him in the balls. He is in the same ridiculous league as Russo as one of those talking heads who only thinks that storytelling and “realistic” wrestling existed “back in the day”. The truth is he is old, his concept of wresting is old and his opinions are old. Seriously the prick still thinks kayfabe is a pillar of wrestling.

For me there is no difference between the people who think Jim Cornette is legitimate and the same people who thinks Alex Jones is legitimate!



taker1986 said:


> That Omega/Page segment should be on Dynamite not on BTE. That part of the reason why people can't get invested in some of these stories because a lot of the story is told on YouTube, not on TV.


I actually agree with this. I love BTE and have watched it for years but with AEW becoming a mainstay, the relevant wrestler storyline bits need to be put in Dynamite. The other non-wrestling stuff could be added to AEW social media.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LongPig666 said:


> So this week’s BTE carries a metaphor observing the petty nature of some wrestling fans. And these sensitive fans respond with posts about how sensitive the Bucks are! Take that Bucks’!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm 29 years old. Far from a boomer. Cornette appeals to me because he talks sense. For a guy that is a hack, he sure gets a lot of attention and booked all over the place. For a hack, he was sure the best damn color commentator working in wrestling in 2019. If his concept of wrestling is "old" and his opinions are "old," then why is wrestling in the fucking toilet? Why do the tricks of pro-wrestling, and it's outdated "realistic" style work in MMA, boxing, entertainment and politics? 

The truth is, the talking point that Cornette is "old" are using that as a smokescreen to avoid talking about them. How are they old? Why won't they work? No one seems to have a answer for that. He's "irrelevant." That's the other one. What the fuck does that even mean? His appearance in the wrestling news is kind of proof against that, but what is meant by "relevancy" by a bunch of young wrestlers that aren't going to be recognized walking down the street? It's another smokescreen. The third you here is that it is all gimmick and he really likes the stuff. Um, sure.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette's criticisms are often true though and are constructive. What's the problem with that?


His views are stuck in the 80's. Every idea he suggests happened already in Memphis 35 years ago.



The Wood said:


> I'm 29 years old. Far from a boomer. Cornette appeals to me because he talks sense. For a guy that is a hack, he sure gets a lot of attention and booked all over the place. For a hack, he was sure the best damn color commentator working in wrestling in 2019. If his concept of wrestling is "old" and his opinions are "old," then why is wrestling in the fucking toilet? Why do the tricks of pro-wrestling, and it's outdated "realistic" style work in MMA, boxing, entertainment and politics?
> 
> The truth is, the talking point that Cornette is "old" are using that as a smokescreen to avoid talking about them. How are they old? Why won't they work? No one seems to have a answer for that. He's "irrelevant." That's the other one. What the fuck does that even mean? His appearance in the wrestling news is kind of proof against that, but what is meant by "relevancy" by a bunch of young wrestlers that aren't going to be recognized walking down the street? It's another smokescreen. The third you here is that it is all gimmick and he really likes the stuff. Um, sure.


You're a troll - not a good one. All your comments are taken straight from Cornette except minus his semblance of humor.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> That was basically the Bucks in a nutshell. Nick walked away after less than one minute of criticism. If anything, they managed to troll themselves. Their argument is basically, "we worked hard and spent money, therefore it must be good!"


Sounds like you are getting worked into a shoot.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The quicker the Bucks turn heel, the better.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I'm 29 years old. Far from a boomer. Cornette appeals to me because he talks sense. For a guy that is a hack, he sure gets a lot of attention and booked all over the place. For a hack, he was sure the best damn color commentator working in wrestling in 2019. If his concept of wrestling is "old" and his opinions are "old," then why is wrestling in the fucking toilet? Why do the tricks of pro-wrestling, and it's outdated "realistic" style work in MMA, boxing, entertainment and politics?
> 
> The truth is, the talking point that Cornette is "old" are using that as a smokescreen to avoid talking about them. How are they old? Why won't they work? No one seems to have a answer for that. He's "irrelevant." That's the other one. What the fuck does that even mean? His appearance in the wrestling news is kind of proof against that, but what is meant by "relevancy" by a bunch of young wrestlers that aren't going to be recognized walking down the street? It's another smokescreen. The third you here is that it is all gimmick and he really likes the stuff. Um, sure.



Cornette’s entire philosophical view is based on protecting kayfabe. It would be akin to Copperfield screaming and yelling at anyone and everyone that he does REAL magic, denouncing every magician who says the words “sleight of hand”, and crying about every America’s Got Talent magician who wins, claiming they’re shit for the business. They get viewers, but they aren’t billionaires like Copperfield. They should just stop performing “their way”, huh?

It’s not real, and no one has believed it to be real for decades. Kayfabe is dead, and with it, a lot of the “magic” of wrestling is dead with it. That’s why Cornette’s ideas won’t work in this day and age. Vince killed kayfabe knowing he had a monopoly on the biggest circus act in the game. Expose it as “entertainment”, and no one will dare waste their time on the lesser acts, no matter how “real” it may look.

I’d love to go back to when kayfabe was alive and well. Believing Hall and Nash just showed up to invade WCW, that Austin was legit getting one over on his boss week-in and weekend-out til he was forced to give him a chance at the title, that Mick Foley was genuinely crazy, etc.

It’s dead. There’s a reason the selling has died and most of it is spot-monkey, flip fests. You can’t unscramble the egg no matter how loud or often you scream it.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I'm 29 years old. Far from a boomer. Cornette appeals to me because he talks sense. For a guy that is a hack, he sure gets a lot of attention and booked all over the place. For a hack, he was sure the best damn color commentator working in wrestling in 2019. If his concept of wrestling is "old" and his opinions are "old," then why is wrestling in the fucking toilet? Why do the tricks of pro-wrestling, and it's outdated "realistic" style work in MMA, boxing, entertainment and politics?
> 
> The truth is, the talking point that Cornette is "old" are using that as a smokescreen to avoid talking about them. How are they old? Why won't they work? No one seems to have a answer for that. He's "irrelevant." That's the other one. What the fuck does that even mean? His appearance in the wrestling news is kind of proof against that, but what is meant by "relevancy" by a bunch of young wrestlers that aren't going to be recognized walking down the street? It's another smokescreen. The third you here is that it is all gimmick and he really likes the stuff. Um, sure.



I love this response! You are actually getting worked by modern indy wrestlers and their new promotions and gimmicks, whilst actually agreeing with Jim Cornette/WWE/AE crowd that modern indy wrestlers are scum because they have abandoned or perverted true wrestling. The Buck’s, Joey Ryan etc are making you old school types into dumb marks and you don’t know it! GENIUS!


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

@The Wood is one of the best posters on here offers logical discussion because he isnt an AEW fanboy he gets shit on constantly. 

this forum is a fucking circle jerk of AEW im over it


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Hell, the name Houdini is still probabky the most well-known name in the art of illusion, doesn’t mean that Copperfield didn’t grow the business, but more exposure and camera angles and less word of mouth killed the belief in “magic”.

Hulk Hogan wouldn’t sell for his opponnent, gave you the same fucking match lacking any differing psychology based on who his opponent was, and still is the most recognizable name in the industry.



Oracle said:


> @The Wood is one of the best posters on here offers logical discussion because he isnt an AEW fanboy he gets shit on constantly.
> 
> this forum is a fucking circle jerk of AEW im over it


I enjoy his posts and thoughts. He does come from a logical place, but he comes off as angry old man yelling at the clouds. Adapt and learn to enjoy what is out there or move on.

It’s his right to explain the differences, but it is everyone else’s right to say “Hey, stfu and let me enjoy this” if they so choose. Self-awareness and reading the room goes a long way.

And @The Wood , man, I’m too old and have way too many more important things to say this stuff out of anger toward you or anything else. I think you genuinely want to enjoy the product, just can’t due to how you think wrestling should be.

Is there any wrestling you enjoy, outside of New Japan? I haven’t kept track fully, but that seems to be the only one, which they have done a wonderful job of protecting kayfabe.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Oracle said:


> @The Wood is one of the best posters on here offers logical discussion because he isnt an AEW fanboy he gets shit on constantly.


He's beyond a joke who uses false narrative/equivalence, straw man response and obfuscation to conceal his clear hatred of AEW (something that he has admitted). If there were actual mods in this section he'd be gone, his trolling is that obvious!



> this forum is a fucking circle jerk of AEW im over it


See ya!!


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> His views are stuck in the 80's. Every idea he suggests happened already in Memphis 35 years ago.


Why though? It’s one thing to just say this, but why are his ideas “stuck?” Why won’t they work? You’re just saying a thing and leading with it being true.



V-Trigger said:


> Sounds like you are getting worked into a shoot.


Lol, what would be the point of this though? This is like when Kenny made that terrible video and buried himself and everyone was like “he’s working.” It turned out he wasn’t (nothing came or it on-air) and it wasn’t productive. If anything, they work themselves. 



bdon said:


> Cornette’s entire philosophical view is based on protecting kayfabe. It would be akin to Copperfield screaming and yelling at anyone and everyone that he does REAL magic, denouncing every magician who says the words “sleight of hand”, and crying about every America’s Got Talent magician who wins, claiming they’re shit for the business. They get viewers, but they aren’t billionaires like Copperfield. They should just stop performing “their way”, huh?
> 
> It’s not real, and no one has believed it to be real for decades. Kayfabe is dead, and with it, a lot of the “magic” of wrestling is dead with it. That’s why Cornette’s ideas won’t work in this day and age. Vince killed kayfabe knowing he had a monopoly on the biggest circus act in the game. Expose it as “entertainment”, and no one will dare waste their time on the lesser acts, no matter how “real” it may look.
> 
> ...


I’ll give you credit. At least you’re trying.

Cornette actually says these things and uses his own magic analogy. You don’t show people how the trick is done then expect them to watch the trick. Kayfabe being dead is what has largely put wrestling on its ass. Still doesn’t mean you don’t try, or that there’s a point to this without kayfabe.

By the way, people are still easy to work. There are people who get worked by boxing and MMA. There are people who believe politicians. People believe in woo a simple Google search dispels. Some people _want_ to be worked.

And the myth that people “believed” wrestling is another place this falls down. A lot of people knew. This comes from a modern perspective that fans today are “smarter” or better than fans back in the day. It’s recency bias. Fans appreciate the effort, suspended their disbelief. They believed _in_ wrestling, even if they didn’t quite believe it.

And I’m yet to see a single shred of evidence that throwing kayfabe out is in any way beneficial. 



LongPig666 said:


> I love this response! You are actually getting worked by modern indy wrestlers and their new promotions and gimmicks, whilst actually agreeing with Jim Cornette/WWE/AE crowd that modern indy wrestlers are scum because they have abandoned or perverted true wrestling. The Buck’s, Joey Ryan etc are making you old school types into dumb marks and you don’t know it! GENIUS!


So, um, genius—care to tell us what the point would be behind allegedly working me? It’s not going to get them any money, which is the whole point of a work. Just to lie? That just makes them trashy people. Shouldn’t they try working on their actual show?

Or, hold on, is that complete and utter bullshit you’ve pulled out of your ass because you’re insecure about your favorites? 

Also, what is the Jim Cornette/WWE/AE crowd? That’s like, three VERY different audiences. It’s most wresting fans. Did you just admit that your boys have worked themselves into being disliked by most wrestling fans? Why would ANYONE do that? 



bdon said:


> Hell, the name Houdini is still probabky the most well-known name in the art of illusion, doesn’t mean that Copperfield didn’t grow the business, but more exposure and camera angles and less word of mouth killed the belief in “magic”.
> 
> Hulk Hogan couldn’t sell shit, gave you the same fucking match lacking any differing psychology based on who his opponent was, and still is the most recognizable name in the industry.


Yeah, but these guys have not grown the business. WWE have grown their own business, but it ain’t “evolving” if you’re going backwards.

And I’m sorry, but did you just say that Hogan couldn’t sell shit? Um, that’s a pretty ridiculous claim. Hogan might not have had the “movez,” but he was an excellent worker.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Why though? It’s one thing to just say this, but why are his ideas “stuck?” Why won’t they work? You’re just saying a thing and leading with it being true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hogan could sell, and when he did, it was magical. I changed my wording and edited after I’d already posted, knowing I’d been unfair in my wording of it.

He could. He simply refused to do so on a regular basis.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Dusty goofies ITT.


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

LongPig666 said:


> He's beyond a joke who uses false narrative/equivalence, straw man response and obfuscation to conceal his clear hatred of AEW (something that he has admitted). If there were actual mods in this section he'd be gone, his trolling is that obvious!
> 
> 
> 
> See ya!!


Im not going anywhere gorgeous xoxo


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> And @The Wood , man, I’m too old and have way too many more important things to say this stuff out of anger toward you or anything else. I think you genuinely want to enjoy the product, just can’t due to how you think wrestling should be.
> 
> Is there any wrestling you enjoy, outside of New Japan? I haven’t kept track fully, but that seems to be the only one, which they have done a wonderful job of protecting kayfabe.


I like some New Japan. Not a big fan of Ospreay and Ibushi unless they are being led. MLW and NWA are really good, but I don’t watch much. I’ve even liked some WWE. It’s been years, but it was all I had for a long time.

NXT has the right philosophy. It’s not the most exciting show every week, but it doesn’t insult my intelligence. Apart from that it’s the classic stuff. 



LongPig666 said:


> He's beyond a joke who uses false narrative/equivalence, straw man response and obfuscation to conceal his clear hatred of AEW (something that he has admitted). If there were actual mods in this section he'd be gone, his trolling is that obvious!


What false narrative/equivalence do I use? Might it be something like flat-out lying about things someone else has said, like you do at the end there? Where have I ever said I hated AEW?

Why do so many AEW fanboys turn out to be liars?

And, even if I did hate AEW (and I don’t)why does that matter? You can discuss things you hate.

By the way, thanks for the shout, Oracle. Don’t subject yourself to anything you don’t want to, but don’t feel too bad for me, haha. I have a blast discussing this, and there are some excellent posters here.



bdon said:


> Hogan could sell, and when he did, it was magical. I changed my wording and edited after I’d already posted, knowing I’d been unfair in my wording of it.
> 
> He could. He simply refused to do so on a regular basis.


Ah, sorry, I think I saw it pre-editing. My bad.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Fair enough, @The Wood . I feel the same on Ospreay, even if I have only watched a single match. I only subscribed to New Japan World for Wrestle Kingdom this year and loved it for the “realism”. I’m one of those that still jokingly screams “It’s real to me!!” 

Ibushi, I’ve watched a little more of through friends, and I enjoyed what I saw.

So, based on what you just said about Cornette’s magic analogy, which I admit I’ve heard him use a couple of times, then why isn’t MLW or NWA setting the world on fire ratings wise? Why is NXT taking a beating in the ratings on a regular basis that doesn’t involve the main roster drawing its loyal fanbase to the show? Keith Lee certainly “looks like a wrestler”, why aren’t millions flocking to see him?

Again, not trying to be a prick. Just curious to here your thoughts on it, because to me, fans don’t care about how “real” it looks or does not look. They care about the drama, and whether it makes sense, whether it’s rankings based or soap opera BS based.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cornette's style of wrestling still draws. The NWA is doing between 150,000 - 200,000 (Allegedly more than TNA these days) as an old school web show. Early day ROH was very old school as well and was incredibly popular.

A lot of southern indies do the traditional style as well and draw really well. Saw some clips from someone doing an independent show in an arena in one of the southern states with a pretty strong crowd.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Fair enough, @The Wood . I feel the same on Ospreay, even if I have only watched a single match. I only subscribed to New Japan World for Wrestle Kingdom this year and loved it for the “realism”. I’m one of those that still jokingly screams “It’s real to me!!”
> 
> Ibushi, I’ve watched a little more of through friends, and I enjoyed what I saw.
> 
> ...


Because of perception and damage done to the industry. You can’t be taken seriously when there are guys with hands in their pockets in the same universe.

Also, it’s not like real = draw. Scott Norton could probably beat some dudes up, doesn’t mean he worked. It’s about working. Not every bad-ass can be Brock Lesnar, but when you’ve got a Brock Lesnar credibility is a thing.

And trust me, NXT is going to win that ratings “war,” lol.

It’s engagement more than people thinking it’s real. And it’s credibility more than people thinking it is legit.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And I go back to the AE. It sold like crazy, and I hated the shit. I remember thinking to myself how it was insulting my intelligence, and how all this soap opera BS would only work for so long. It was a cheap ratings grab that was not sustainable. Mae Young having a baby that turns out to be a fucking hand is far more insulting to me than Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets in front of a paused reaction from Pac before he gets leveled with a stiff kick to the face.

But trust me, for the most part, I do understand and sympathize with your plight. Just don’t understand the need to constantly tear down something you don’t watch.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> This isn't as witty as you intended it to be


It wasn't meant to be witty. It was meant to show the hypocritical nature of this entire issue.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> And I go back to the AE. It sold like crazy, and I hated the shit. I remember thinking to myself how it was insulting my intelligence, and how all this soap opera BS would only work for so long. It was a cheap ratings grab that was not sustainable. Mae Young having a baby that turns out to be a fucking hand is far more insulting to me than Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets in front of a paused reaction from Pac before he gets leveled with a stiff kick to the face.
> 
> But trust me, for the most part, I do understand and sympathize with your plight. Just don’t understand the need to constantly tear down something you don’t watch.


You’re starting to sound like Cornette with those AE points. And the thing that worked about that time period was the more credible stuff. Austin, Rock, Foley, Vince and JR, especially. You believed in their personas and were engaged by them. The AE didn’t get so hot because people liked Beaver Cleavage.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And again, why can’t an Orange Cassidy put his hands in pockets, take his ass-kicking, and still exist in a world with Jericho, Cody, Moxley, Hager, Omega, Pac, Page, potentially Brian Cage, and any other legit main event scene guys they may acquire? Maybe Omega becomes JUST a mid-card guy that puts everyone over by giving them a great match, and he eats the L to grow the company?

That’s all I’m trying to say. You haven’t explained this, just repeating that Cassidy can’t exist in a universe of legit wrestling, yet Mae Young can have a fucking baby in a world that has Austin and Rock.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

I would never have believed that a certain "gang", would end up carrying the flag of this thread because:

- I don't often watch. And don't tell other people how to live their lives.

- People don't need to live life according to your standards and with your values.

- You also try to paint them with a brush of arrogance because they think they're always right.

- 12 posts in before someone is actually on their side. More and more it is becoming clear...

- People on here are abusing people like me and The Dude and Rainmaker all the time.

I love that song, "Who's Crying' Now" by Journey, you know...


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Garty said:


> I would never have believed that a certain "gang", would end up carrying the flag of this thread because:
> 
> - I don't often watch. And don't tell other people how to live their lives.
> 
> ...


I laughed.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> And again, why can’t an Orange Cassidy put his hands in pockets, take his ass-kicking, and still exist in a world with Jericho, Cody, Moxley, Hager, Omega, Pac, Page, potentially Brian Cage, and any other legit main event scene guys they may acquire? Maybe Omega becomes JUST a mid-card guy that puts everyone over by giving them a great match, and he eats the L to grow the company?
> 
> That’s all I’m trying to say. You haven’t explained this, just repeating that Cassidy can’t exist in a universe of legit wrestling, yet Mae Young can have a fucking baby in a world that has Austin and Rock.


Hang on, I've never defended the hand. I don't know where this idea has come from, lol. 

The hand was fucking stupid, and had they not done shit like that, maybe they would have been even hotter than they were or had more stars that could carry on the business? 

And when you're hot you can get away with a lot. People will make excuses and their threshold for bullshit is going to be higher. Yeah, it's super-hypocritical, but that's the way it goes. And AEW isn't super-hot. The WWF were getting millions upon millions of viewers and even occasionally beat the NFL. People were going to wade through Val Venis to get to Steve Austin. The oomph just isn't there for Chris Jericho and Orange Cassidy. 

Orange Cassidy can't exist in a world with serious acts because he undermines the entire point of what you're presenting. He breaks the fourth wall. He tells the audience "this is fucking bullshit, why would you watch this?" That's literally what him being bored and nonchalantly walking into a fight _means_. I don't think anyone can disagree with this. His "slacker" gimmick is exactly that thing. You cannot see why this is counterproductive when in a later segment you've got two serious acts trying to sell people on a $50 PPV. That you've just told them is frivolous. 

I wonder if people actually get this concept behind Orange Cassidy. He's mocking wrestling, yeah? People get that. He is literally an insult to your intelligence as a wrestling fan. That's _actually his purpose_. 



Garty said:


> I would never have believed that a certain "gang", would end up carrying the flag of this thread because:
> 
> - I don't often watch. And don't tell other people how to live their lives.
> 
> ...


You are obsessed with me. It's getting creepy and annoying. You are projecting this idea of a gang. Just because people have started to see through the AEW myths it doesn't mean they're a gang. Do you often think people are talking about you behind your back?


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine (Dec 28, 2019)

Garty said:


> I would never have believed that a certain "gang", would end up carrying the flag of this thread because:
> 
> - I don't often watch. And don't tell other people how to live their lives.
> 
> ...


Do you actually post anything here that is wrestling related or do you just bitch nonstop about The Wood?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Hang on, I've never defended the hand. I don't know where this idea has come from, lol.
> 
> The hand was fucking stupid, and had they not done shit like that, maybe they would have been even hotter than they were or had more stars that could carry on the business?
> 
> ...


Fair enough. You admit that the shit was shit but still worked, because Austin and Rock were drawing millions upon millions.

Why can’t some of the guys I mentioned become that, and everyone just struggles through the Cassidy shit? Which I absolutely don’t think he and Marco will be around forever, but for my son’s sake, hopefully Cassidy stays another year or two while he develops his understanding of psychology instead of the funny stuff.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There are a few reasons for that: 

1. Rock and Austin were massive stars that were made before things got REALLY bad. Russo got more power in 1999. That Austin and Rock were getting hotter and hotter by this point is a good thing. Not all main eventers can overcome that sort of stuff. 

2. You have to be able to make those stars. AEW doesn't have history, nor does it have the viewership. Austin was made a star in from of several million people. Not 900k. There's no way to super-charge someone off that. 

3. The competition was hot as well. This created a force behind wrestling. That force is not there. 

4. How we consume content was very different then to what it is now. Back then, if you wanted to watch live (and you didn't want those shows spoiled, so a lot of people did), you had to sit down and watch. Now, we can DVR more readily, watch on demand, and have endless content sitting in our pockets. Silly content is going to end up on people's cutting room floors a lot more than priority content in an era where you had to record something with VHS. 

5. The culture was very different. The 90's were a weird time. The WWF almost embraced being a comedy promotion because it was an entertainment juggernaut and that was the zeitgeist of television. This was a period where South Park and Beavis and Butthead were en vogue. It was a lot of poo, naughty words and boobies. Being crude and offensive didn't so much challenge sensibilities. You could present a program where Mae Young, this crazy old bitch, plays a sex-pot that is kept around for some reason, because rude old ladies were cool, and she pretends to give birth to a hand. "Haha, they got that old lady to pretend she gave birth to a hand" actually doesn't do as much damage as a guy undermining the philosophy of what you're doing. It's bad, it's not funny, and I'm not justifying it, but you could make the reasonable claim that it was shitty comedy on a usually good wrestling show, not shitty wrestling on a bad comedy show.

If you want, there is a way of accepting that in this zany world of the WWF, Mae Young is paid by this eccentric millionaire to show up, either out of legacy or as a favor to his father or someone, and in the culture of the late 90's, he paid her to humiliate herself. The whole "WWF Attitude" thing was, in its weird way, a kayfabe push. Vince McMahon hiring writers to "come up with something for that crazy old bitch to do and make that lazy no-talent Mark Henry do it" has this meta purpose behind it. You could explain it away kind of like the NWA legend ad spots. Orange Cassidy, however, is actually a guy who goes into what are supposed to be serious fights with his hands in his pockets. 

I can buy Colt Cabana as a class clown. I can buy him assing off with an opponent. Or him even agreeing to help a heel with a comedic routine in the ring outside of scheduled competition. I've forgotten that dude's name he did it with. But then it turns violent and that's when you actually sell it. Orange Cassidy is not the same thing. He no-sells the very purpose behind wrestling. If he were a referee that every couple of weeks you got a vignette about his debut coming, and you never actually got the debut, it would still be stupid, and I'd ask why, but it wouldn't be as offensive as it is him actually doing it.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Here's another way of putting it: 

I don't believe that the old woman in Chris Jericho's video heading into Full Gear was actually his aunt's friend from church. Jericho put together a silly video and paid an actress to say he's going to beat the shit out of Cody. 

That's silly, but it's not offensive and doesn't hurt your show's credibility. 

Orange Cassidy is really supposed to be a wrestler that doesn't care.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And when does Orange Cassidy no-sell his ass beatings? He plays the too cool for this shit guy, then he gets his ass kicked. It isn’t like he’s pulling his Indy schtick out there fully. He tries, gets his ass kicked, and is done for the night. 

I’ve not seen the Orange Cassidy that popped on my FaceBook timeline 2-3 years ago and pissed me off.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Fair enough. It’s a matter of threshold. You believe Orange Cassidy is too much, but Golddust and Piper making out center stage of WrestleMania isn’t enough to draw away fans, because hindsight is 20/20 and Austin and Rock became stars in spite of all the shit around them.

Stop speaking in absolute truths. It’s off putting even for someone like me who understands and mostly agrees with you in principle. Nothing is set in stone.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

LongPig666 said:


> I love this response! You are actually getting worked by modern indy wrestlers and their new promotions and gimmicks, whilst actually agreeing with Jim Cornette/WWE/AE crowd that modern indy wrestlers are scum because they have abandoned or perverted true wrestling. The Buck’s, Joey Ryan etc are making you old school types into dumb marks and you don’t know it! GENIUS!


But when they leave twitter and make their precious BTE all about the fans who have criticisms, does that mean they've been worked by the fans?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Cornette’s entire philosophical view is based on protecting kayfabe. It would be akin to Copperfield screaming and yelling at anyone and everyone that he does REAL magic, denouncing every magician who says the words “sleight of hand”, and crying about every America’s Got Talent magician who wins, claiming they’re shit for the business. They get viewers, but they aren’t billionaires like Copperfield. They should just stop performing “their way”, huh?
> 
> It’s not real, and no one has believed it to be real for decades. Kayfabe is dead, and with it, a lot of the “magic” of wrestling is dead with it. That’s why Cornette’s ideas won’t work in this day and age. Vince killed kayfabe knowing he had a monopoly on the biggest circus act in the game. Expose it as “entertainment”, and no one will dare waste their time on the lesser acts, no matter how “real” it may look.
> 
> ...


Kayfabe might be dead but one of the most entertaining performers in AEW is MJF who embrases Kayfabe constantly. Maybe he's onto something?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Who said anyone wanted kayfabe to die? Read again, sparky. It’s still real to me!

MJF embraces kayfabe, and it didn’t make MLW must see tv. It hasn’t made HIM must-see tv. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, but the notion that everyone protecting kayfabe will bring back viewers in droves is OPINION, not fact.

Now continue with your childish shit and enjoy this one response I gave you. I‘lol go back to having an adult convo with The Wood and remember that you’re not important enough to remember.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Fair enough, @The Wood . I feel the same on Ospreay, even if I have only watched a single match. I only subscribed to New Japan World for Wrestle Kingdom this year and loved it for the “realism”. I’m one of those that still jokingly screams “It’s real to me!!”
> 
> Ibushi, I’ve watched a little more of through friends, and I enjoyed what I saw.
> 
> ...


WWE has killed kayfabe too. Why does every problem with AEW need to be compared to WWE as well? They both have many problems. But those wrestlers who live their characters, MJF, Ciampa, Scurll, Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Matt Hardy, Miz, Velveteen Dream, Mox and PAC rarely break character and have been some of the most entertaining wrestlers of the last few years. This whole killing kayfabe thing is killing wrestling because wrestling needed to be fake, because that's what it is. Trying to be something it's not is making the wrestlers and the fans look dumb.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> And I go back to the AE. It sold like crazy, and I hated the shit. I remember thinking to myself how it was insulting my intelligence, and how all this soap opera BS would only work for so long. It was a cheap ratings grab that was not sustainable. Mae Young having a baby that turns out to be a fucking hand is far more insulting to me than Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets in front of a paused reaction from Pac before he gets leveled with a stiff kick to the face.
> 
> But trust me, for the most part, I do understand and sympathize with your plight. Just don’t understand the need to constantly tear down something you don’t watch.


Everyone fucking hated the hand thing! Imagine if this forum was around then. It would have been dissed constantly and Garty would have lost it more than he does for the small amount of AEW hate.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Who said anyone wanted kayfabe to die? Read again, sparky. It’s still real to me!
> 
> MJF embraces kayfabe, and it didn’t make MLW must see tv. It hasn’t made HIM must-see tv. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, but the notion that everyone protecting kayfabe will bring back viewers in droves is OPINION, not fact.
> 
> Now continue with your childish shit and enjoy this one response I gave you. I‘lol go back to having an adult convo with The Wood and remember that you’re not important enough to remember.


It was a response to your magic analogy you twat. Wrestling killing itself for ten years means its going to take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. There's a lot of other variables as well. Your adult argument is black and white and not taking anything into account at all.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> It was a response to your magic analogy you twat. Wrestling killing itself for ten years means its going to take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. There's a lot of other variables as well. Your adult argument is black and white and not taking anything into account at all.


So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.

What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Has this thread just become filled with alts?


----------



## Benoit's Weight Machine (Dec 28, 2019)

What I see in this thread are a bunch of people ranting and raving like idiots and calling each other names because you have differences in opinions on fake fighting. Let that sink in for a minute and get a goddamn grip. ?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.
> 
> What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.


Are you responding to me or someone else because that response was either intentionally putting words in my mouth or just flat out incorrect. If either AEW or WWE started putting on amazing television for a while then yeah, it would make sense that wrestling could become more popular. But neither show puts on anything worth watching (for non-hardcore wrestling fans of course). Now please, adult. Don't put words in my mouth in a lame smart ass attempt at a weak ass strawman.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

You speak in such absolutes @Cult03 , then I will assume you know the future.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Wrestling killing itself for ten years means it could possibly take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. Is that better? Talk about comprehension, for fucks sake. Do I have to make everything a bit easier for you? I literally teach comprehension to children and they'd be able to understand that everything on here is an opinion. This whole speaking in absolutes thing is a cop out, man. Your being an adult gimmick was fun while it lasted.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Wrestling killing itself for ten years means it could possibly take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. Is that better? Talk about comprehension, for fucks sake. Do I have to make everything a bit easier for you? I literally teach comprehension to children and they'd be able to understand that everything on here is an opinion. This whole speaking in absolutes thing is a cop out, man. Your being an adult gimmick was fun while it lasted.


Perhaps you could teach them emotional maturity, so that their written word one day conveys better than yours.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

well thats 12 minutes wasted. i cant believe anyone finds this shit funny or entertaining. Bucks have the charisma and humor of a piece of wood. And on a 3/10 looks scale not even nice to look at either. ugh.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

CenaBoy4Life said:


> And on a 3/10 looks scale not even nice to look at











bro you watching the wrong thing for that LMAO


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> And when does Orange Cassidy no-sell his ass beatings? He plays the too cool for this shit guy, then he gets his ass kicked. It isn’t like he’s pulling his Indy schtick out there fully. He tries, gets his ass kicked, and is done for the night.
> 
> I’ve not seen the Orange Cassidy that popped on my FaceBook timeline 2-3 years ago and pissed me off.


He no-sells the moment he puts his hands in his pockets. If you wouldn’t do it in a shoot with Brock Lesnar or Minoru Suzuki, don’t do it with anyone.
It makes it look like you don’t care about getting your ass kicke



bdon said:


> Fair enough. It’s a matter of threshold. You believe Orange Cassidy is too much, but Golddust and Piper making out center stage of WrestleMania isn’t enough to draw away fans, because hindsight is 20/20 and Austin and Rock became stars in spite of all the shit around them.
> 
> Stop speaking in absolute truths. It’s off putting even for someone like me who understands and mostly agrees with you in principle. Nothing is set in stone.


I didn’t say that at all. For someone making for some pretty good discussion, you put a lot of words into mouths. I don’t have to like everything the WWF’s ever done to criticize AEW or tout the virtues of making this shit credible.

Cult03 is right: the absolute truths thing is a cop-out. I don’t even fully know what you mean by it. Yeah, my opinion is that kayfabe is important. I can back that up with evidence. I absolutely think it’s a truth, and that’s demonstrable.

If I said it’s unlikely that you’d get eaten by a giant radioactive chicken, is that speaking in an absolute truth? Should I avoid statements like that because nothing is set in stone?



bdon said:


> So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.
> 
> What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.


No one said that either. It’s possible that a boom is impossible because wrestling is dead. It’s possible that the right people with the right attitude could re-spark it. I can tell you that it is much more likely with kayfabe than without.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Okay? I mean they made a joke out of it. That's what they usually do. What's the problem?


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Goddamn this thread blew up! Maybe Bucks would make good heels, they have so many haters even amongst AEW fans.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

You’ve got to make people want to pay to see you get beat up, not just hate you.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> The first 1min 30sec. It's all in metaphor. Nick Jackson = AEW. Matt Jackson = The Wood & Dude
> 
> ? ? ?


I think these guys should focus on themselves instead of focusing on a 70 year old man with an opinion.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Holy shit, I watched it up until that god awful intro. Why did I do that to myself? That was so fucking bad, hahaha.

Do they really think landscaping is a good metaphor for wrestling? You know, if someone does know something about landscaping, and they advise you against making some big mistakes, maybe you should actually listen to them, since they know how to do that actual job?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Perhaps you could teach them emotional maturity, so that their written word one day conveys better than yours.


So you're not going to debate the points made and would prefer half assed insults that don't even make sense in regards to my responses? I'll leave you to your "adult convo".


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

@The Wood , you said that Austin and Rock were already stars by the time Mae Young gave birth to a hand. Fair enough. I went further back to show how stupid shit was on the fucking card when they weren’t stars, yet they were still made fucking stars.

Which one is it? You can’t make stars or you can with comedy acts in the same universe? Make up your mind. I’m not twisting words or your argument. I’m merely showing you that if something is good, it is good, and people will absolutely wax poetic about it in hindsight.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Cult03 said:


> So you're not going to debate the points made and would prefer half assed insults that don't even make sense in regards to my responses? I'll leave you to your "adult convo".


There's never anything to "debate" about a matter-of-fact "opinion". The "gang" are always right 100% of the time. Just ask any one of them.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Garty said:


> There's never anything to "debate" about a matter-of-fact "opinion". The "gang" are always right 100% of the time. Just ask any one of them.


Like I said @The Wood I respect and know his opinion.

The rest come off as hanger-ons with all of the importance of Sammy Guevara, praying some relevancy is shined upon them.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Garty said:


> There's never anything to "debate" about a matter-of-fact "opinion". The "gang" are always right 100% of the time. Just ask any one of them.


Oh, just fuck off. 



bdon said:


> @The Wood , you said that Austin and Rock were already stars by the time Mae Young gave birth to a hand. Fair enough. I went further back to show how stupid shit was on the fucking card when they weren’t stars, yet they were still made fucking stars.
> 
> Which one is it? You can’t make stars or you can with comedy acts in the same universe? Make up your mind. I’m not twisting words or your argument. I’m merely showing you that if something is good, it is good, and people will absolutely wax poetic about it in hindsight.


Yeah, but did you conveniently leave off the other points I made. The WWF was in a hole because of a lot of stupid shit. Austin got over largely because of his work with Bret Hart and Mike Tyson. People believed that shit and there was never anything as fucking awful and nonsensical as Orange Cassidy on that show. Kayfabe got that shit over. 

Roddy Piper also had that inherent quality to make people believe in him. There's nothing inherently "phoney" about him getting into a brawl with Goldust. Go and look at the way he works in that. Piper looks like he legit wants to kill Goldust. And Dustin Rhodes is no bad worker himself. It's not the same as a dude with his hands in his pockets. Yes, using the OJ footage was stupid, but it wasn't even as reality breaking as Orange fucking Cassidy. 

If something really sucks so bad, people can forget about it too. But you're comparing bullshit that happens on one show to something that happens _on the same show._ The WWF in 1996 was not exactly cooking and not exactly the same period as when Austin was hot. There are a lot of different factors. And if you're putting Orange Cassidy on your show, then you're not putting on a good show, so the argument is moot. 

I also don't understand why you just wouldn't try to be good in the first place. Why even try to defend shit that just bogs you down?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Gh0stFace said:


> Goddamn this thread blew up! Maybe Bucks would make good heels, they have so many haters even amongst AEW fans.


they are good heels though - they have ‘cocky’ down pat

personally I’ve really grown to love the Bucks


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Well that was a stupid analogy in the BTE, the guy who did the landscaping job didn't ask for feedback and he wasn't trying to sell anyone a product, he did the landscaping job for himself and no one else so why should he give a fuck about anybody's opinion? 

But AEW is a product that they're trying to sell to customers and if the customers don't like the product they go out of business. That's why there's the saying "the customer is always right", it doesn't mean that the customer is always objectively right, it just means that it's your job to please them. If McDonald's did a survey of their customers and 90% of them wanted the tomato on the bottom bun, it doesn't matter that it's objectively wrong because it makes the bread soggy, you can bet that McDonald's would start putting the tomato on the bottom.

If the fans are less than thrilled with your product and give you feedback on what would make them enjoy it more, rather than throwing subtle jabs at them, maybe you should take some of that criticism into consideration. The Elite are all too busy patting themselves on the back, and the deserve it, what they have done is amazing, but now they're no longer booking a show for themselves. If they're not in the business of pleasing their customers they shouldn't be in business, especially not at the national level.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The point is that Austin and Rock got over in spite of it, and the dumb shit fucking existed. Just as Orange Cassidy exists in the AEW universe. If Moxley and MJF or whoever get over, they’ll do so in spite of your stupid claims that Cassidy “can’t exist in a serious world”.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Oh, just fuck off.


Please, take your own factual advice. Twist and spin that "opinion".


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Well that was a stupid analogy in the BTE, the guy who did the landscaping job didn't ask for feedback and he wasn't trying to sell anyone a product, he did the landscaping job for himself and no one else so why should he give a fuck about anybody's opinion?
> 
> But AEW is a product that they're trying to sell to customers and if the customers don't like the product they go out of business. That's why there's the saying "the customer is always right", it doesn't mean that the customer is always objectively right, it just means that it's your job to please them. If McDonald's did a survey of their customers and 90% of them wanted the tomato on the bottom bun, it doesn't matter that it's objectively wrong because it makes the bread soggy, you can bet that McDonald's would start putting the tomato on the bottom.
> 
> If the fans are less than thrilled with your product and give you feedback on what would make them enjoy it more, rather than throwing subtle jabs at them, maybe you should take some of that criticism into consideration. The Elite are all too busy patting themselves on the back, and the deserve it, what they have done is amazing, but now they're no longer booking a show for themselves. If they're not in the business of pleasing their customers they shouldn't be in business, especially not at the national level.


I think they are laughing at these “critics” cus AEW have genuine data about how well they are doing. Like you said, if McDonald’s did a survey. However, what about the people who don’t do those surveys? The minority are the most vocal. We don’t know the sales of McDonald’s. What makes you think McDonald’s would follow a surgery when they have decades of records of sales and experienced analysts on the case? We also don’t know the sales of AEW. Complaining but if AEW are hitting their targets, who are we to complain?

the analogy is generally bad because AEW haven’t got a survey to fill in. Give your feedback by not watching the show, buying merch and not paying for the PPV. AEW aren’t gonna log onto WF to get advice ?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> I think they are laughing at these “critics” cus AEW have genuine data about how well they are doing. Like you said, if McDonald’s did a survey. However, what about the people who don’t do those surveys? The minority are the most vocal. We don’t know the sales of McDonald’s. What makes you think McDonald’s would follow a surgery when they have decades of records of sales and experienced analysts on the case? We also don’t know the sales of AEW. Complaining but if AEW are hitting their targets, who are we to complain?


I mean can't the same thing be said of WWE then?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Garty said:


> Please, take your own factual advice. Twist and spin that "opinion".


Cough psycho cough


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> I mean can't the same thing be said of WWE then?


Absolutely. WF generally is a cesspool of idiots and trolls who think they know more than the actual people running the business who have decades of experience.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Absolutely. WF generally is a cesspool of idiots and trolls.


Shit is mostly negative lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> Shit is mostly negative lol


I, like the majority of people, stopped watching WWE and now they’re trying to gain that viewership back.
And that is how business works. Feedback does fuck all if the company is making money. AEW is putting asses in seats, started the year off strong in terms of ratings and has a contract set up for their PPVs up until whenever. So far, the facts suggest AEW is on the up.

so making these long ass posts on WF will do nothing. WWE slowly is getting my viewership back.


these goofies act like what they are saying is more important than the current trends and quick wins that AEW have been achieving.

Btw feedback on WF vs feedback from Cornette is very different and non-comparable. I think Cornette can provide feedback. He has decades of experience. So I’m not complaining about Cornette. But yah also at the end of the day, he is not privy to business trends.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> I think they are laughing at these “critics” cus AEW have genuine data about how well they are doing. Like you said, if McDonald’s did a survey. However, what about the people who don’t do those surveys? The minority are the most vocal. We don’t know the sales of McDonald’s. What makes you think McDonald’s would follow a surgery when they have decades of records of sales and experienced analysts on the case? We also don’t know the sales of AEW. Complaining but if AEW are hitting their targets, who are we to complain?
> 
> the analogy is generally bad because AEW haven’t got a survey to fill in. Give your feedback by not watching the show, buying merch and not paying for the PPV. AEW aren’t gonna log onto WF to get advice ?


Lol, this is a bit of a reach. What suggests their metrics are going up? PPV has a terrible retention rate. They’ve lost a large chunk of viewers. Attendance is down. The hardcore fans that do watch are getting disenchanted by larger numbers.

They are simply trying to send the message that “everyone thinks their an expert.” Yah. Just like them. The point about them not making a wrestling promotion for themselves is a great one.

And there is a correct way to concrete too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I mean can't the same thing be said of WWE then?


from what i hear, WWE is doing quite well in getting viewers back

i might even re-sub to the network just for Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania - that is normally how long I give them to impress or depress me 

I refuse to watch NXT out of principle though ?‍♂


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> from what i hear, WWE is doing quite well in getting viewers back
> 
> i might even re-sub to the network just for Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania - that is normally how long I give them to impress or depress me
> 
> I refuse to watch NXT out of principle though


I mean I've never not enjoyed them so I can't speak on whether to re-sub lol


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Oracle said:


> @The Wood is one of the best posters on here offers logical discussion because he isnt an AEW fanboy he gets shit on constantly.
> 
> this forum is a fucking circle jerk of AEW im over it


Lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I mean I've never not enjoyed them so I can't speak on whether to re-sub lol


Nothing really beats Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania

if for nothing else, the tradition and nostalgia factor

edit> but history also shows they’re bound to piss me off and I’ll just unsub again


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> from what i hear, WWE is doing quite well in getting viewers back
> 
> i might even re-sub to the network just for Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania - that is normally how long I give them to impress or depress me
> 
> I refuse to watch NXT out of principle though ?‍♂


Rumble is a must watch.
Wrestlemania hasn't been a must watch since 30, and even that was only a must-watch for Lesnar Taker.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> Rumble is a must watch.
> Wrestlemania hasn't been a must watch since 30, and even that was only a must-watch for Lesnar Taker.


i was the biggest Daniel Bryan / yes movement mark - so, that WM was the last really good one for me

I‘ll watch as I’m hoping they finally give him his Rumble win - but if its Corbin or Roman or.... whatever.... then ?‍♂ ?‍♂ ?‍♂ ?‍♂

although, I guess i wouldn’t mind somebody new either. We’ll see


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i was the biggest Daniel Bryan / yes movement mark - so, that WM was the last really good one for me
> 
> I‘ll watch as I’m hoping they finally give him his Rumble win - but if its Corbin or Roman or.... whatever.... then ?‍♂ ?‍♂ ?‍♂ ?‍♂
> 
> although, I guess i wouldn’t mind somebody new either. We’ll see


Might be Drew McIntyre. Somehow he's gotten over as a face.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> Might be Drew McIntyre. Somehow he's gotten over as a face.


oh, he did? interesting

eh... was never really a fan, but he’s someone new ?‍♂


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nothing really beats Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania
> 
> if for nothing else, the tradition and nostalgia factor
> 
> edit> but history also shows they’re bound to piss me off and I’ll just unsub again


I can't relate, I've never really gotten that disappointed with a promotion I liked. I got some that would never be regular viewing. But outside of the super hardcore promotions can't think of many I've ever had true disdain and disappointment in love k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I can't relate, I've never really gotten that disappointed with a promotion I liked. I got some that would never be regular viewing. But outside of the super hardcore promotions can't think of many I've ever had true disdain and disappointment in love k


I kinda fall in love and out of love

’disappointment’ is too hard a word I think - sometimes I just know when something isn’t geared towards me any more. I understand why it isn’t - but I am not to sort to ‘hate watch and complain’ or ‘stick with it because nostalgia’

i just move on - which is why I’m hardly ever on WWEs forums here - when i used to be hella active.

but, sometimes you have to give things a 2nd chance too - which is what I like to do at Royal rumble time - if its still not for me after, I just move on

same thing happens with NJPW - watch them at Wrestle Kingdom, not sure i want to stick around for the rest though. No sense in watching and hating it though, too many other interesting things happening that takes up time 

edit: if they push Tyler Bate, Pete Dunne or Daniel Bryan to the moon, I’ll be right onboard again


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

LOL - okay, I watched this expecting to dislike it and crap on it, but it's actually entertaining and smart.

The Starbucks cup
'the grassy knoll'
'not enough colour'
The 5 palm trees
The intentionally sensitive walk-off

I still think they deleted Twitter just to work people and come across as overly sensitive in order to mock those who think that's how they really are.

I see this as kayfabe-laden commentary on modern society's social life. If that's their game, it should age well.

I'm not going to watch their YouTube, but hopefully this kind of progressive kayfabe makes it way onto Dynamite more often, because this type of thinking could be where wrestling needs to go in the near future in order to successfully work a modern audience.

It's almost like celebrity social media PR specialists using their tools to stir the spot to create added drama that pays off in the ring.

Remember, you're not supposed to know you're being worked! In the 80's, fans weren't talking about face/heel/going over/heat/powder/etc. Everything "inside" that fans talk about today is from decades past. WWE seems content progressing only a little from what the audience already knows, but these guys are clearly trying to be two steps ahead of the game IMO.

I still strongly dislike their in-ring style, but I don't really understand the social media reactions they've been getting.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They're pretentious hypocrites with whiny entitled personalities. People tend to call that shit out.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

IronMan8 said:


> Remember, you're not supposed to know you're being worked!


 Shhhhh... our friend The Wood might catch on


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

The Wood said:


> They're pretentious hypocrites with whiny entitled personalities. People tend to call that shit out.


In the future, please only speak about yourself, sorry I meant, for yourself. Thank you.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> Shhhhh... our friend The Wood might catch on


Lol, what's the point of this being a work? Do you know what a work is supposed to do? Make money. How does this make them any money? 

They're still babyfaces, for the record. So it would also be bad storytelling. It also isn't happening on their TV, so they are only doing it for their most insanely hardcore audience. Just like Kenny Omega when he was working people with the Donovan Dijakovic stuf...oh wait...

Plus, The Bucks feel bad about working. They can't help but reveal every single little detail about what they've done, otherwise they feel like "carnies." They're allergic to working. 

This is just like when people thought Ambrose leaving the WWE was a work. What is the point? 

There's no way this makes sense other than to avoid them taking responsibility for being dicks on the internet.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Oracle said:


> I used to like the Bucks but everything they have done in AEW has made me dislike them its almost like they think they're above everyone


Im interested in why you say that? I'vr somehow managed to miss most of their segments and matches.


Booking themselves as top dogs?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Insulting other people then calling it "toxic" when they get insulted. Running off Twitter. Doing the whole "Simpsons writer" thing where they blame the fans for not liking the content.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

The Wood said:


> They're still babyfaces, for the record. So it would also be bad storytelling.


Why?

You’re applying past logic to a new situation.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

IronMan8 said:


> Why?
> 
> You’re applying past logic to a new situation.


Because it makes no sense to be heels if you're babyfaces.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost (Nov 16, 2019)

I see the marks are still working themselves into a shoot.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Because it makes no sense to be heels if you're babyfaces.


But why?

Btw, been listening to a lot of Cornette lately, he makes for a great listen


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

IronMan8 said:


> But why?
> 
> Btw, been listening to a lot of Cornette lately, he makes for a great listen


Because it'll make people hate you instead of like you, lol. I don't really know how to make it simpler. 

You work to get people to buy tickets or otherwise put down money. This does no good for anyone. It's only watched by their hardcore fans, and it contradicts the narrative they are pushing on their own show. They're not working. Just like Omega was not working when he took aim at the NXT talent and everyone was like "He's a nice guy -- he wouldn't do that." What did that lead to?


----------



## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> Shit is mostly negative lol


That’s why I’m hardly posting here anymore, some of the constant nitpicking and overwhelming negativity just sucks the fun out of it.

it’s like games, if you truly love playing a game, never go to the general forum.

I stopped posting in the WWE section after I had soured on the product and found myself becoming one of the people complaining. Came back more actively after AEW was announced since it sparked some interest back into me, but seeing what the forum here has become, I’m a very sporadic poster/lurker again. I’m simply just tuning in and enjoying most of what I see.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

IronMan8 said:


> LOL - okay, I watched this expecting to dislike it and crap on it, but it's actually entertaining and smart.
> 
> The Starbucks cup
> 'the grassy knoll'
> ...


I agree! And they have long hair to show their support for women's equality in the workplace. They don't do sit ups to show their support for discrimination of overweight people. It's just so obvious I can't believe people can't see that everything they do is so nuanced and genius. These guys are the smartest people in wrestling. The people are wrong! Not the Bucks.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Cult03 said:


> I agree! And they have long hair to show their support for women's equality in the workplace. They don't do sit ups to show their support for discrimination of overweight people. It's just so obvious I can't believe people can't see that everything they do is so nuanced and genius. These guys are the smartest people in wrestling. The people are wrong! Not the Bucks.


Well, you're the one believing that everything you're seeing them do is real. I believe there's a word for that. 

Each to their own!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lol. They. Are. Not. Working. I cannot stress that enough, people.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Lol. They. Are. Not. Working. I cannot stress that enough, people.


They're very elusive. They've been working sterotypical haters (not to add into this bunch The Wood). And it's funny how triggered they are. Stellar work delivered correctly is intended to strategically deceive and trigger people. It's the best when you don't even know you're being worked.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> They're very elusive. They've been working sterotypical haters (not to add into this bunch The Wood). And it's funny how triggered they are. Stellar work delivered correctly is intended to strategically deceive and trigger people. It's the best when you don't even know you're being worked.


Who is “triggered?” The people who watch BTE are their fans. People who catch wind just think they are idiots and hypocrites who can dish it out but can’t take it.

Working makes you money. No one is buying a ticket to AEW to see the babyface tag team get beaten up. Bucks fans, just like The Bucks, don’t understand how wrestling works, lol.

If they’re just being disingenuous wankers, which they probably are, then they’re just disingenuous wankers. It hurts their business more than helps. Yep, ace workers there. Real Terry Funks.

Can anyone explain how this works anyone? Anyone?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Roman Reigns should put out a video of him taking a shit in an old woman’s lunch. Lololol, working! I can’t believe you guys got worked! Tune in to SmackDown this week to see national hero, Roman Reigns. 

You know who have been worked by The Young Bucks? Their apologists, who will bend over backwards to make them look like stellar, smart, self-deprecating guys, instead of seeing the truth about them. They’re insecure dickheads. And you will buy their shit.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

I mean Corny said they'd be off TV by April, and they just signed a new deal and Cornette got fired from NWA LONG before April, sooooo...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> I mean Corny said they'd be off TV by April, and they just signed a new deal and Cornette got fired from NWA LONG before April, sooooo...


Relevance?

Cornette quite the NWA, by the way. He didn’t like the apology they put out on his behalf. He could have sucked it up and stayed on. He didn’t want to.

The verdict is still out on whether they will still be in the same position they are in by April. I can’t remember if he said out of slot or off the station altogether. We’re in January. There’s still plenty of time. Especially if they keep getting sued for using WWE trademarks they don’t have the rights to, or whatever’s going on there.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

The Wood said:


> Relevance?
> 
> Cornette quite the NWA, by the way. He didn’t like the apology they put out on his behalf. He could have sucked it up and stayed on. He didn’t want to.
> 
> The verdict is still out on whether they will still be in the same position they are in by April. I can’t remember if he said out of slot or off the station altogether. We’re in January. There’s still plenty of time. Especially if they keep getting sued for using WWE trademarks they don’t have the rights to, or whatever’s going on there.


He said off TV entirely. 

But it doesn't matter, they won't get thrown off TV, because Tony Khan is boys with one if the higher ups at TNT.

Its basically a Bischoff/Turner type trust with the wallet switching hands. 

You are correct though, the Bucks are working the marks, thr ones that believe everything, including the money mark supplying the check. 

Anyone in the business is calling them overly sensitive, and such... but their fans?

Their fans eat it up and probably don't even care they are being worked, but they aren't getting anyone new with this stuff.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The more I look into this potential lawsuit the more I think that there’s something to it. Just because a trademark has expired, it doesn’t mean there is free use. Holders can still expect some common law usage. WWE still monetize Bash at the Beach through the Network. Cody was denied the trademark.

I’m not sure who is then at fault. Cody seems to think he owns a trademark he doesn’t, and AEW has used used a trademark he doesn’t, and TNT has broadcast a trademark they don’t, and Jericho is benefitting from a name that he doesn’t.

If lawsuits plague this company, especially ones that seem to have a pretty good foundation, we’ll see how tight Tony Khan is with TNT.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Who is “triggered?” The people who watch BTE are their fans. People who catch wind just think they are idiots and hypocrites who can dish it out but can’t take it.
> 
> Working makes you money. No one is buying a ticket to AEW to see the babyface tag team get beaten up. Bucks fans, just like The Bucks, don’t understand how wrestling works, lol.
> 
> ...


LMFAO. 

So smarks and spectators know more about the wrestling business than wrestlers themselves? It's funny how you don't realize you're projecting. You're acting in the exact same manner that you accuse the Bucks of acting. Try looking into the mirror, my dude


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Relevance?
> 
> Cornette quite the NWA, by the way. He didn’t like the apology they put out on his behalf. He could have sucked it up and stayed on. He didn’t want to.
> 
> The verdict is still out on whether they will still be in the same position they are in by April. I can’t remember if he said out of slot or off the station altogether. We’re in January. There’s still plenty of time. Especially if they keep getting sued for using WWE trademarks they don’t have the rights to, or whatever’s going on there.


I don't give a fuck if he said you can't fire me I quit. The point is, like has ALWAYS happened through his entire career, he's gone and he's gonna blame everyone else. AGAIN.

FUCKING AGAIN. I'm entertained my Corny, but only the hardest of the dick riders would defend him on this. He deserves the bed he's made I hope he's comfortable in it. And the relevance ding dong is that the title of the thread mentions Cornette by name.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

The Wood said:


> The more I look into this potential lawsuit the more I think that there’s something to it. Just because a trademark has expired, it doesn’t mean there is free use. Holders can still expect some common law usage. WWE still monetize Bash at the Beach through the Network. Cody was denied the trademark.
> 
> I’m not sure who is then at fault. Cody seems to think he owns a trademark he doesn’t, and AEW has used used a trademark he doesn’t, and TNT has broadcast a trademark they don’t, and Jericho is benefitting from a name that he doesn’t.
> 
> If lawsuits plague this company, especially ones that seem to have a pretty good foundation, we’ll see how tight Tony Khan is with TNT.


Lawsuits are what killed ECW, fans suing them for getting injured etc. Hopefully we don't see a repeat in history.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> LMFAO.
> 
> So smarks and spectators know more about the wrestling business than wrestlers themselves? It's funny how you don't realize you're projecting. You're acting in the exact same manner that you accuse the Bucks of acting. Try looking into the mirror, my dude


Care to explain? I’m not the one running off Twitter because people don’t like what I’m saying. I’m also not the one “working” a different character off my TV show. That doesn’t make any sense. 



MontyCora said:


> I don't give a fuck if he said you can't fire me I quit. The point is, like has ALWAYS happened through his entire career, he's gone and he's gonna blame everyone else. AGAIN.
> 
> FUCKING AGAIN. I'm entertained my Corny, but only the hardest of the dick riders would defend him on this. He deserves the bed he's made I hope he's comfortable in it. And the relevance ding dong is that the title of the thread mentions Cornette by name.


But you said he got fired. He didn’t. He’s only been fired from WWE, which was welcome (he couldn’t be fired from OVW) and TNA, because TNA is TNA. I still don’t get how that has any relevance to The Bucks making asses of themselves though. What bed? What are you even rambling about?


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Care to explain? I’m not the one running off Twitter because people don’t like what I’m saying. I’m also not the one “working” a different character off my TV show. That doesn’t make any sense.


The kind of arrogance/cockiness that you see in Bucks is the same arrogance reflected in your posts. Not that arrogance is bad or anything but it looks like you're seeing in them something that you don't like about yourself


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> The kind of arrogance/cockiness that you see in Bucks is the same arrogance reflected in your posts. Not that arrogance is bad or anything but it looks like you're seeing in them something that you don't like about yourself


What is arrogant about what I'm saying? You've got to be able to explain this shit. You can't just say it. I can very easily say that AEW sycophants (love that expression) make that up. Which they do. You're projecting a tone to me speaking matter-of-factly. These guys can dish it but they can't it. That much is evidenced in how they run from social media when they are the targets. They also think that fans that criticize the product are critical of completely subjective choices, as opposed to how you landscape in the first place. They think they are entitled to do whatever they want in the position they are in. _That's the point of the video._


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Care to explain? I’m not the one running off Twitter because people don’t like what I’m saying. I’m also not the one “working” a different character off my TV show. That doesn’t make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> But you said he got fired. He didn’t. He’s only been fired from WWE, which was welcome (he couldn’t be fired from OVW) and TNA, because TNA is TNA. I still don’t get how that has any relevance to The Bucks making asses of themselves though. What bed? What are you even rambling about?


You believe that if he wanted to still be with NWA, he'd still be there?

I have a bridge for sale in San Fran you might be interested in. I'll give it to you for real cheap.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> What is arrogant about what I'm saying? You've got to be able to explain this shit. You can't just say it. I can very easily say that AEW sycophants (love that expression) make that up. Which they do. You're projecting a tone to me speaking matter-of-factly. These guys can dish it but they can't it. That much is evidenced in how they run from social media when they are the targets. They also think that fans that criticize the product are critical of completely subjective choices, as opposed to how you landscape in the first place. They think they are entitled to do whatever they want in the position they are in. _That's the point of the video._


Social media is a cesspool of trolls and bored sadistic fucks hiding behind anonymity. I applaud them for removing themselves from that. That doesn't mean that they can't handle criticism. They address criticism in a playful manner and have talked in length about their perception of psychology and selling. They dropped the ball because they were hoping Tony Khan would out-bid ROH and could save the Dark Order storyline. 

But fuck Twitter, I'm happy they deleted their accounts.


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## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Young Bucks think that Internet audience = TV audience. Not quite - The internet is used by individuals, whereas television is watched by a crowd. One televised segment can make or break the show, and it looks like AEW is so broken it caused Matt Hardy to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

TerraRising said:


> Young Bucks think that Internet audience = TV audience. Not quite - The internet is used by individuals, whereas television is watched by a crowd. One televised segment can make or break the show, and it looks like AEW is so broken it caused Matt Hardy to file a lawsuit for copyright infringement.


Wrestling itself is performed in front of a crowd. What has AEW broken? Tbh I WANT them to break everything and experiment and try new things...

Cornette was crying about Marko Stunt when his segment was one of the few which added viewers. Professional spectators and has-beens like Cornette can either adapt and grow or die in oblivion of irrelevancy.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> You believe that if he wanted to still be with NWA, he'd still be there?
> 
> I have a bridge for sale in San Fran you might be interested in. I'll give it to you for real cheap.


I'm pretty sure it has been widely reported that he was given the option to apologize and stay on and he chose to leave because he didn't like that the company apologized on his behalf while not accepting any responsibility for airing it after the editing process themselves and missing the point of the (admittedly tasteless) joke. 

Cornette was also consulted in the early going-ons of AEW and wanted no more to do with them after he found out what the creative direction would be. He could have been doing commentary on that show. He was working shows out of love, not need or money. 

But again, I ask what is the relevance of any of that? What does that have to do with anything The Bucks are doing or saying to make asses of themselves? Why do you need to be employed by the NWA to hold a valid criticism over what AEW is doing? I don't get it. 



Gh0stFace said:


> Social media is a cesspool of trolls and bored sadistic fucks hiding behind anonymity. I applaud them for removing themselves from that. That doesn't mean that they can't handle criticism. They address criticism in a playful manner and have talked in length about their perception of psychology and selling. They dropped the ball because they were hoping Tony Khan would out-bid ROH and could save the Dark Order storyline.
> 
> But fuck Twitter, I'm happy they deleted their accounts.


You need better friends. Twitter is a useful networking and marketing tool that connects you to all sorts of great people and allows you to crowd source information exceptionally fast. It often responds to the content you put out. Bad content can lead to bad feedback. 

Lol, it's their fucking storyline. It's their fault it's bad. 



Gh0stFace said:


> Wrestling itself is performed in front of a crowd. What has AEW broken? Tbh I WANT them to break everything and experiment and try new things...
> 
> Cornette was crying about Marko Stunt when his segment was one of the few which added viewers. Professional spectators and has-beens like Cornette can either adapt and grow or die in oblivion of irrelevancy.


What sort of ratings do you think "The Princess Diana Autopsy" would get? Ratings can come from morbid curiosity and people laughing their ass off at your product. Ratings, in the moment, can actually be a _negative_ thing. Imagine the whole school seeing your small weiner as you get on stage to accept your "at least you tried" award. It turns out that adding viewers thing was a myth too. The segment came to a net loss, so that's not even the case. 

Ratings do not necessarily equate to quality. Bad shit can get you attention too. And good shit can go unnoticed. It can matter of time. Bad shit with lots of attention usually fizzles out real fast. Good shit that goes unnoticed often gets noticed with critical acclaim. Marathon, not a sprint.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I'm pretty sure it has been widely reported that he was given the option to apologize and stay on and he chose to leave because he didn't like that the company apologized on his behalf while not accepting any responsibility for airing it after the editing process themselves and missing the point of the (admittedly tasteless) joke.
> 
> Cornette was also consulted in the early going-ons of AEW and wanted no more to do with them after he found out what the creative direction would be. He could have been doing commentary on that show. He was working shows out of love, not need or money.
> 
> ...


Bro there is no such thing as bad press.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> Bro there is no such thing as bad press.


There absolutely most definitely is.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Hardcore wrestling fans like us are a rare breed. I can see how casual viewers can be entertained by the likes of Darby Allin or even Orange Cassidy because they have a unique aura about them. Especially Darby Allin. The face paint tells a very dark and tragic story which explains what he does in the ring. Orange Cassidy & Marko are Corney's whipping boys but casual viewers don't care about "what makes a good wrestling show" ... casual viewers want to be intrigued and entertained, NOT bored ( like as in WWE programming). Orange Cassidy is more over with the crowd without doing a thing.. (guys doing 100 flips and spamming superkicks in a single match aren't as over as him). Chris D'Elia who's a good friend of Eminem saw a clip of Orange Cassidy doing some random shit and said:
https://twitter.com/chrisdelia
"I... how have I not known about this guy until now. This is legitimately the illest shit I... have ever seen. I will now follow this man to the ends of the earth. Wow. https://youtu.be/xyP1hWajSRE  @orangecassidy

Growing in ratings isn't all about pleasing you and me. It's also about engaging casual viewers who may see something so random and funny that they tweet and tell their friends about it and start watching it... like above. Or teens who may randomly see a Young Bucks match and think of it as "cool."


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't think you can tell the difference between sincerity and satire. Nor do I think you understand how influencing works or how those audiences are probably not the ones you are going to hook and convince to pay $50 for a PPV. Nor are they even watching the TV. Hardcore wrestling fans are the only people who waste their time with wrestling these days. At all. Casual fans, or the people who would be casual fans, mock this shit.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I don't think you can tell the difference between sincerity and satire. Nor do I think you understand how influencing works or how those audiences are probably not the ones you are going to hook and convince to pay $50 for a PPV. Nor are they even watching the TV. Hardcore wrestling fans are the only people who waste their time with wrestling these days. At all. Casual fans, or the people who would be casual fans, mock this shit.


How could I when I'm trapped in a matrix of satire? 

When someone who is cool with Eminem notices and tweets about it to millions of followers -- this tells me that they're not making a show for you or Cornette. And it also tells me they're doing something right. Because why should they? Fuck pleasing everyone. Hardcore wrestling fans stuck in the old-school mindset are in the minority. 

Kayfabe died when internet became a norm so this whole idea of "everything must be serious"; "we have to protect the business at all costs", "no silly shit", "no spotfests", etc, etc. are in the minority. AEW can be really fucking serious but it's also a lot of fun. 

So I'm not going to get bent out of shape about Bucks killing the business because their style doesn't conform to the "norms" of wrestling. What was normal today will not be normal tomorrow. 

And as far as the fans.. 

What about the many millions that stopped watching after the Monday Night Wars, like myself?


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> At all. Casual fans, or the people who would be casual fans, mock this shit.


It annoys me when my casual friends do that.... it's scripted, but so is every movie & show... except in wrestling you get one take. No retakes


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> How could I when I'm trapped in a matrix of satire?
> 
> When someone who is cool with Eminem notices and tweets about it to millions of followers -- this tells me that they're not making a show for you or Cornette. And it also tells me they're doing something right. Because why should they? Fuck pleasing everyone. Hardcore wrestling fans stuck in the old-school mindset are in the minority.
> 
> ...


No one cares about Chris D’Elia making an insincere bullshit tweet about how coooooool (sense the sarcasm) Orange Cassidy is. If you need to talk about who someone is tight with, they’re a fucking loser. And it’s not like millions of followers listened or paid attention. Nothing happened. Because no one cares.

Wrestling fans stopped watching because of this shit. They may never come back, but they’re not coming back while it’s still shit, nor are they coming back because Chris D’Elia made a fucking tweet.


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