# Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread (And Stairs)



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Section got all screwy, here's the latest edition of the thread.

and STAIRS


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FACK THE CAL SCALE.

AJ/Roman @ whatever the last PPV was - 3 and a half stairs.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal, blowing minds w/swerves rn.

btw, Rusev vs Titus O'Neil is gonna happen. I'm excited.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Somehow I found the new thread in a reasonable time frame. Usually it takes me a few days to notice. 

I guess for the completists out there (is that a word?), there's some exclusive action figures coming out for Roman Reigns and Randy Savage and they're gonna come with a bonus dvd. Here's the match listings:

*Ultimate Fan Pack: Roman Reigns DVD* (https://www.amazon.com/Roman-Reigns...li_ss_tl&ref_=pd_aw_fbt_21_img_2&tag=wdn0d-20)

_5 Unforgettable Roman Reigns Matches!

– Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. Kane & Daniel Bryan
– Roman Reigns vs. Mark Henry
– Roman Reigns vs. Bray Wyatt
– Roman Reigns vs. Daniel Bryan
– Roman Reigns Participates in a Battle Royal_

*Ultimate Fan Pack: Macho Man DVD* (https://www.amazon.com/Macho-Ultima..._li_ss_tl&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1&tag=wdn0d-20)

_3 Unforgettable “Macho Man” Randy Savage Matches!

– Macho Man vs. Harley Race
– Macho Man & Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair
– Macho Man vs. Arn Anderson_

No dates given for the matches yet. For Roman, the tag match is probably the one from RAW that Cody loves and the match with Bray is probably from Battleground. Versus Bryan is obvious. Versus Henry could be from anywhere. Battle Royal is idk.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Savage vs Arn looks REALLY enticing, wonder if it's from the WCW days or the late 80's WWE days.....

Too bad they didn't label it "Totally Forgettable Roman Reigns Matches!!!!" and "3 Unforgettable Savage Matches" :lmao


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Roman Reigns Participates in a Battle Royal


:bryan2

Fuck, that's convinced me. WWE, take my money NOOOOOOOOOW.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ooooh new thread. Maybe that'll motivate to finally do that write-up of WrestleMania 29.



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Savage vs Arn looks REALLY enticing, wonder if it's from the WCW days or the late 80's WWE days.....


My guess it's from 95/96 when Flair and Savage were feuding.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ooooh new thread. Maybe that'll motivate to finally do that write-up of WrestleMania 29.
> 
> 
> 
> My guess it's from 95/96 when Flair and Savage were feuding.


You're most likely correct, as to the best of my knowledge the Brainbusters didn't do anything with Savage. I just figured there was a SLIGHT chance we got a peak Arn vs peak Savage singles match in the 1980's because Savage in the WWE was one of those guys who would work tag team wrestlers in singles matches, and other guys lower on the card, because he just liked having the best matches possible and wrestling all the best guys, regardless of their status. He wrestled Bret, Dynamite Kid, Shawn Michaels, etc when they were all in tag teams so it's not inconceivable he'd work Arn in that time.

The only time I will ever say I wish I could see more Shawn Michaels is in this case: Savage apparently went to Vince in late 1992, after he'd dropped the title and ended his feud with Flair, and wanted to work an 18-24 month long feud with Shawn, right as he was starting out. It was gonna be a really long, drawn out, double turn, with Savage starting as the good guy and Shawn as the heel, and Savage slowly turning heel as he becomes frustrated with this cocky young upstart, while Michaels shows a lot of grit and determination and an utter refusal to quit, eventually turning him baby face, culminating in a ladder match with Savages career on the line at WrestleMania 10, where Shawn would get his big IC title win and Savage would retire riding out onto the sunset. Apparently Savage spent weeks and weeks writing this entire feud out, every step of the way, in incredible detail too, while he was on the road. He presented it to Vince, and was shot down and told he needed to stick to announcing and that it was time for the New Generation to start.

I don't know about you guys, but that sounds like one awesome fucking feud, it would have been money and the perfect way for Randy to end his WWE run. Add that to the list of 100 questions I'll ask Vince if I ever encounter him drunk at a club. How can you possibly say no to THAT? The work was already done for him! He didn't need to book anything!

Oh well. I went off on a tangent there. Felt like the proper way to christen the new thread.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

CAL SCALE is shit. Cal is shit.


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## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Arn vs Savage was on the Second Savage dvd most of the matches that were listed on the dvds were repeats


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## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Oh new thread, nice. 

I've been doing a lot of downloading. I now have all WWE PPV's from 1987, 1988, 1989, 1999 and 2000. I'm currently downloading 1998, 2001 and 2002 at the moment too. I'll fill in the gaps day by day or when I can. I also have all WCW PPV's from 1989, 1990, 1991 and 1997. Same again, when I have time I'm pretty much getting everything. :mark:


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## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Alex Wright vs Arn Anderson for the WCW World Television Title - Slamboree (1995) 7.5/10


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## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Arn/Savage never happened during the Brainbusters run.*


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy moly. The main event for tomorrow night's live event in Odessa, TX is Reigns vs. Rollins vs. Styles for the WWE Title. :shocked:


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey said:


> No dates given for the matches yet. For Roman, the tag match is probably the one from RAW that Cody loves and the match with Bray is probably from Battleground. Versus Bryan is obvious. Versus Henry could be from anywhere. Battle Royal is idk.


That'll be neat. Suppose it's moot seeing how I can watch it on the Network anytime, but distribution for a fabulous match is always good.

I imagine the battle royal is the one he won to qualify for MITB in 2014.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Warning after typing this: long analysis here but figured I'd pop in here to sing the praises of Goldust/Orton for Cody Rhodes' job Raw match. I remember watching this when it happened and digging it, thinking it was a good match and then watching it again a few months later and liking it but I've watched this match twice these past two days this time watching tentatively/closely: and this isn't a good match: this is a great WWE styled match! Many minor, sometimes minute things that would be easily missed watching without a close eye that just make the story being told in the ring really pop! Sure, this was on the surface probably a good one anyway given bell to bell the crowd was already in the palm of the two's hands. 

Still though: right out of the shoot Goldust with that look of pure focus knowing the task he has at hand and then rushing in with his offense and how Orton started his response with basic, low-effort, rudimentary offense right out of the gate telling a central part of this story with Randy thinking he was going to have an easy night knocking off this "old" and ring-rusted Goldust when Randy is the champ. A tune-up match in Randy's mind if you will. Then in our first "little detail" I just love how that basic approach doesn't work and as a result Randy got hard shots and when Randy rolled out first first he checks his teeth and just gives that great confused heel look and snarl physically saying "what the fuck just happened I expected a night off here" and then throwing out that cokcy "you're going back" line probably meaning it is futile and Orton then dialing in with more focus realizing that Goldie has a little more in the tank then calculated and Orton better take some heel shortcuts, which he smartly does. 

Another thing that is just cool when you notice is after those hard "10 count punches" how the hot crowd finally absolutely quiets concerned for Goldust and then Orton with perfect timing gives that "Im going to enjoy this now" smile and knees Goldust's chest in then smirks while looking around the crowd before doing the Brock/Regal hand stomp to a recovering crawling opponents' hand and then that all is for not since Orton underestimated Goldy again thinking he was gonna close it out powerslam RKO only to nearly lose on the surprise pin. That second rollout where Orton regroups, tells Goldust Orton underestimated him, then as a heel rolls again to tell the ref "you tell him im going to kick his ass as soon as I choose to get in the ring " before cockily egging that hot crowd on with no chants... that was heel gold. When they got back in the ring I found it a nice touch by Dustin since he really doesn't have much of a gameplan out of emotion and ring rust to just flip Orton's earlier offense on him until Orton got the heelish upper hand. 

I thought the close to this with Goldust hitting his old finish spurring his hope spot which the crowd really came for and intending on ending it with Cody's finish was a great little addition to this story too only for Goldy to lose to some cunning by Orton. I mean shit, even some extremely minute selling in this match like two Orton sells: one after Orton got his hand stomped on the ring steps, he for about four seconds moved his fingers rapidly to try and get some quick feeling and B. there is a spot where Orton got I think his head bounced outside and while selling pain he gives this huge swing in the air to add to the frustration of the whole story from his end of having a much harder earned win than anticipated. Usually the Lawler/Cole/JBL commentary is best on mute: but this was a rare job well done at the desk and probably the best job I've heard that trio do. 

Point is: add everyhting up when watching close and this really is a great match. Better too: there was ZERO flashy moves this whole match and they added up these simple yet great parts alongside that hot crowd to carve this stellar story. Easily one of Randy's finest individual efforts of this current decade and a very fine singles notch for the Goldust run.


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## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

Reigns vs. Rollins vs. Styles will be a sick match!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Warning after typing this: long analysis here but figured I'd pop in here to sing the praises of Goldust/Orton for Cody Rhodes' job Raw match. I remember watching this when it happened and digging it, thinking it was a good match and then watching it again a few months later and liking it but I've watched this match twice these past two days this time watching tentatively/closely: and this isn't a good match: this is a great WWE styled match! Many minor, sometimes minute things that would be easily missed watching without a close eye that just make the story being told in the ring really pop! Sure, this was on the surface probably a good one anyway given bell to bell the crowd was already in the palm of the two's hands.
> 
> Still though: right out of the shoot Goldust with that look of pure focus knowing the task he has at hand and then rushing in with his offense and how Orton started his response with basic, low-effort, rudimentary offense right out of the gate telling a central part of this story with Randy thinking he was going to have an easy night knocking off this "old" and ring-rusted Goldust when Randy is the champ. A tune-up match in Randy's mind if you will. Then in our first "little detail" I just love how that basic approach doesn't work and as a result Randy got hard shots and when Randy rolled out first first he checks his teeth and just gives that great confused heel look and snarl physically saying "what the fuck just happened I expected a night off here" and then throwing out that cokcy "you're going back" line probably meaning it is futile and Orton then dialing in with more focus realizing that Goldie has a little more in the tank then calculated and Orton better take some heel shortcuts, which he smartly does.
> 
> ...



Goldust vs Orton from Raw in fall of 2013 was fucking OUTSTANDING. I loved that match so much, one of my top TV singles matches from that year. 

Goldust man, sooooooooooop good. So, so good.


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## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Cal, blowing minds w/swerves rn.
> 
> btw, Rusev vs Titus O'Neil is gonna happen. I'm excited.


I couldn't care less about Titus but Rusev makes anything he's a part of turn to gold.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

So I am finally making my way through 2012, watched The Rumble and EC yesterday. Both weren't that good, the rumble was full of jobbers, Ricardo coming out was pretty funny though I thought. I'm gonna start Mania shortly. What are some matches, feuds, ppv's I have to look forward to for 2012? I wasn't watching the product at this time so I really don't know much of anything that happened.


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## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Jaysin said:


> So I am finally making my way through 2012, watched The Rumble and EC yesterday. Both weren't that good, the rumble was full of jobbers, Ricardo coming out was pretty funny though I thought. I'm gonna start Mania shortly. What are some matches, feuds, ppv's I have to look forward to for 2012? I wasn't watching the product at this time so I really don't know much of anything that happened.


Sheamus/Bryan (Extreme Rules)
Cena/Lesnar (Extreme Rules)
Punk/Bryan (Over The Limit)
Christian/Cody Rhodes (No Way Out)
Punk/Cena (Night of Champions)
The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback (TLC)


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jaysin said:


> So I am finally making my way through 2012, watched The Rumble and EC yesterday. Both weren't that good, the rumble was full of jobbers, Ricardo coming out was pretty funny though I thought. I'm gonna start Mania shortly. What are some matches, feuds, ppv's I have to look forward to for 2012? I wasn't watching the product at this time so I really don't know much of anything that happened.


Get REALLY excited for Extreme Rules. One of the best WWE PPVs of all time imo (or at least of this decade). 

Unfortunately, 2012 was a really weak year for PPV so you're not in for much else to speak of. I thought Summerslam was good as a whole but the main event was weak.


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## Kyle DaCosta (Jun 4, 2016)

Corey said:


> Get REALLY excited for Extreme Rules. One of the best WWE PPVs of all time imo (or at least of this decade).
> 
> Unfortunately, 2012 was a really weak year for PPV so you're not in for much else to speak of. I thought Summerslam was good as a whole but the main event was weak.


Summerslam 2012 was underwhelming as hell. Not one standout match on the entire card. And yes, HHH vs. Brock Lesnar was deplorable.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kyle DaCosta said:


> Summerslam 2012 was underwhelming as hell. Not one standout match on the entire card. And yes, HHH vs. Brock Lesnar was deplorable.


No, there was nothing overly great on the card, but I enjoyed Jericho/Ziggler in the opener (actually was my MOTN), Bryan/Kane was good, Miz/Mysterio was good, Sheamus/Del Rio was solid with a weird finish, and the WWE Title was worked extremely well before the odd finish. I would personally rather have a show with a bunch of good matches instead of one with a great one and then nothing else to really speak of, know what I mean? I'd take 2012 over 2010 and 207 any day of the week.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Sweet, thanks for the heads up. So 2012 is when The Shield debuted? Around what time did they show?


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield debuted @ Survivor Series 2012.

SummerSlam 2012 is a two match show; Sheamus vs Del Rio & Punk vs Cena vs Show. Danielson vs Kane is decent, but that's about it.

2012 is a super shit year, tbhayley.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jaysin said:


> Sweet, thanks for the heads up. So 2012 is when The Shield debuted? Around what time did they show?


I won't spoil the actual moment, but it's late in the year.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Sweet, hopefully I'll find some stuff throughout this year I like. 2010 and 2011 were decent at best, not much stood out to me that I really really liked. Hopefully 12 and 13 are better. Looking forward to seeing more of Bryan and Brock back. I'm pretty sure I read at some point Evolution reformed? Generally speaking, how was that? Did Batista make a return at some point? Anything memorable or noteworthy with him?


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Evolution reformation was a bust, if you ask me. Maybe it popped for some others, but the segments were eh unless The Shield was making me care here and there. At least their whole goal was to put The Shield over, despite the eventual crumble. Matches were very, very dull. Which was indicative of Trips & company trying to make The Shield work their match, not the other way around.

EDIT: Noteworthy 2014 Batista stuff was mostly only the Triple Threat @ WM vs Orton & Danielson and a singles match vs Sheamus on SD. They had two iirc, but it was their second outing that was good. I should find you a date to be sure. My two cents, avoid the Batista vs Dolph tripe. The No DQ match in particular is a train-wreck.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jaysin said:


> Sweet, thanks for the heads up. So 2012 is when The Shield debuted? Around what time did they show?


Survivor Series 2012. Not sure if you plan to carry onto 2013: but of course 2013 ring-wise was marvelous and imo. one of the company's banner ring years. The Shield's awesome consistency is a big part of that.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jaysin said:


> Sweet, hopefully I'll find some stuff throughout this year I like. 2010 and 2011 were decent at best, not much stood out to me that I really really liked. Hopefully 12 and 13 are better. Looking forward to seeing more of Bryan and Brock back. I'm pretty sure I read at some point Evolution reformed? Generally speaking, how was that? Did Batista make a return at some point? Anything memorable or noteworthy with him?


Evolution didn't reform until 2014 actually. It was a short reunion after the crowd turned on Batista and he quit the company. :lol They had a great match with The Shield at Extreme Rules though. Another one at Payback that got mixed reviews.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

This is ironic given I'm watching Mania 29 right now as part of my own Recent WWE catch up. Only ironic b/c I haven't watched any "catch up" stuff in weeks. Write up incoming in 9 more weeks.

WWE still haven't put 2013 NXT on the network, have they? Huge bummer.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, they haven't. But I know there's a p. handy link out there to Sheamus vs Harper on Dailymotion. Praise all that is good.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Cool, thanks for all the feedback! I've been an avid wrestling fan since I was kid, and started watching during the attitude era in 98. Around early 2011 I just quit watching up until late last year/January of this year. I have a huge did collection and had a gap from MITB 2011 to current, I'm caught up to WM28 I believe, whatever Mania for 2012. I will continue watching through until I get to the current product. So a lot of this stuff is new to me. I obviously know who people are now, but I didn't see the debuts of the Shield, or Brock coming back, I missed pretty much all of Byans career, have no clue when the Wyatts came in, idk what happened to Mysterio (I know he's in Lucha Underground) but idk his departure from wwe, I'm not quite sure when Punk left or why, from what I read it's apparent he won't come back, I also see some things on the Network while scrolling through shows, looks like the Rock got a title run at some point so I'm assuming he had more matches than the 2 with Cena at WM, and I want to say I read a description for one show where RVD was on the card? Did he make a return? I was always a fan of his, I knew he went to TNA, but I didn't watch them either during this time. So as you can see I've missed some stuff, but I like getting an idea of what to look out for.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh I'm pretty sure I could find everything I want to (esp w/ XWT), but the network's handiness and lack of waiting time will be missed. :/ edit @Cody


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They did recently put all the 2004 & 2005 RAW's up though. I :mark: at that. But work on the C shows & NXT next, plz. Those prime Superstars years will be so awesome to have at an easy disposal.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Interesting by the way that I presume Dana and Vince are doing a one-off talent exchange I am going to guess a Brock fight in exchange for allowing Rousey a match to help augment the merits of this "Diva Revolution" as they bill it (in actuality not much of a revolution if you ask me). Still though, on the off chance that Brock's never ceasing insane competitive fires have called him again, somehow Brock has gotten out of that contract he recently inked and he is actually looking for a run here: he leaves us with certainly a very interesting mixed bag of results and I haven't seen the first HHH/Brock match and don't remember 

The great and tremendous:
An individual effort for the ages leading to the finish be damned extremely captivating ER 2012 I have at ****3/4 
The tremendous Punk match at SS 13 I have at the same rating (I know many of you go the full five and I nearly do too but a tad too much Heyman does slightly take away imo.)
Cena/Seth/Brock playing Jason Voorhese the most entertained by a match I was in 2014 even though it has its substance faults. ****1/4
The very interesting and shocking basically squash of slightly behind Sammartino the longest franchise guy ****
The fun, hard hitting and good Brock mix of heel prick and smashmout beast Mania match vs Reigns I have at ****

The good/solid:
Taker/Brock Summerslam ***3/4
Even with it's oddities and I thought it told the wrong story: I had Cena/Brock NOC at ***1/4
Sheamus/Brock while quick was a fun hard hitter
I thought Battleground was solid enough albeit I never got a proper rating out of that

The average or not so good:
Obviously, Taker's concussion blew up WM 30 match even though it is an all timer in the history books and the scene of 70,000 fans going silent in shock simultaneously is a sight I will never forget (note: Brock himself thought he went deaf I can only imagine being in his shoes at that moment)
Sadly, the Rollins match wasn't given the time to be anywhere near what it could be
vs Ambrose WM 32 was a dissapointment I had I think at like **
I thought Brock/Trips WM was middling **1/2
That Brock/Trips cage match wasn't a good outing imo. Brock constantly screaming in pain wreaks of Hunter. 
Roadblock I suppose was to be expected for a switch but still not what it could be 
Show/Lesnar was nothing more than segments


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> They did recently put all the 2004 & 2005 RAW's up though. I :mark: at that. But work on the C shows & NXT next, plz. Those prime Superstars years will be so awesome to have at an easy disposal.


You know the weird thing, WWE's youtube channel has every episode of 2010 Superstars up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS_leqvuU1I (random episode, doesn't seem to be a playlist)


edit - wait this dude made a playlist. Has 9/17/09 - 9/20/12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRFladCP-Q&list=PL19Vspo1yClr-9fD6tLCC5fQVxha6RSV2


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was thanks to WWE doing that how I watched all of the 2010 editions to make that best of list a few years ago. :lol

then I got sick of watching on youtube and went to XWT to get all of 2011.


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

So I just started WM28, wtf did I just watch with Bryan losing in 18 seconds? Really? Good god I can imagine the shit show that happened on here at the time. I also hate these ppv's opening with World title matches, so stupid.


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## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That Sheamus vs Harper match is wonderful.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed it is Kenny. :mark:

Just noticed the edit to say 2009 Superstars are up there too. That I _didn't_ know. I think there's a great Finlay vs Knox match lying around at the end of the year. Could be wrong, but I think it might have happened. Losing my touch. *grabs notebook of results*


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE would be smart to capitalize on this UFC 200 money train and put Brock in the main event for Summerslam to get some more eyes on it, which they've now publicly said will be his return date. How we get there will be up to them, but I for sure would be interested in a Lesnar vs. Reigns vs. Rollins main event. Technically a Wrestlemania rematch and we can get a clear cut winner after Rollins entered himself into Wrestlemania and then Taker ruined the singles match at Battleground.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've been saying Reigns vs Brock II is going to be the SummerSlam main event for a while now. I don't see how Rollins is put into that, especially when he's p. much a lock going to take a loss come MITB. (unless it ends dirty and they drag it out to Battleground, lolz)

Reigns getting the W over Lesnar is the final piece of the puzzle left to accomplish. That's where the story has taken us.


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## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

Rusev will end Titus!


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## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So in 2016 we've had Kevin Steen vs El Generico on a WWE PPV, AJ Styles working back-to-back main event programs with the 2 top WWE babybfaces, Shinsuke Nakamura signing for WWE, Samoa Joe holding a WWE title, James Storm wrestling for WWE without signing a contract, Bobby Roode and Kota Ibushi all appearing on WWE TV, The Rock wrestling at Wrestlemania, thumbtacks in a WWE match, a Brand Split, Shane McMahon vs Undertaker in HIAC at Wrestlemania with Shane jumping off the top of the cell, a squash match on Raw against local jobbers, Cody Rhodes quitting, Damien Sandow getting released, Titus O'Neil getting a 90 day suspension for goofing around, Daniel Bryan retired, Eva Marie had a match at Wrestlemania quite frankly not far below the quality of match Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns each had, the Women had the MOTN at a Wrestlemania, a near 1 hour match on WWE TV and Austin Aries signing with WWE.

Oh and Steve Lombardi got released.

AND NOW BROCK LESNAR IS WORKING UFC UNDER WWE CONTRACT.

Well you can't say it's a boring year if nothing else.

Oh and on that note I watched the AJ/Cena angle from Raw yesterday and it was really good. Cena's promo before AJ came out was brilliant. I don't exactly watch promos anymore unless I feel I really need to see them or they happen on a PPV but whenever I catch a Cena promo it's really fucking great. He had one during the Owens feud last year that was a legit all time great promo. AJ/Cena chants were great too. Loved how they started off really tame but they just allowed it to build into a great moment. Shout out to the guy in the front row who switched sides halfway through it too. Oh and then the same crowd who were so hot for the stand off then start giving AJ the what treatment literally as soon as he starts talking. Wrestling crowds everyone. Turn was well done as they pretty much set AJ/Cena vs Gallows/Anderson up perfectly but then also set Cena vs The Club up perfectly at the same time. HATED HATED HATED HATED the camerawork though. Good god almighty what the fuck was that. Legit made me feel giddy watching it and absolutely killed the angle from that point on for me. It's like some kid discovering WordArt on Publisher and whoring the fuck out of it on everything to the point where his school essay is shaped like an octagon with a multi-colour shadow and nobody knows what the fuck it's supposed to be anymore. Really hope the match isn't like the Cena/Owens series but I suspect it will be.*


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## TysonKidd (May 29, 2016)

seabs said:


> *So in 2016 we've had Kevin Steen vs El Generico on a WWE PPV, AJ Styles working back-to-back main event programs with the 2 top WWE babybfaces, Shinsuke Nakamura signing for WWE, Samoa Joe holding a WWE title, James Storm wrestling for WWE without signing a contract, Bobby Roode and Kota Ibushi all appearing on WWE TV, The Rock wrestling at Wrestlemania, thumbtacks in a WWE match, a Brand Split, Shane McMahon vs Undertaker in HIAC at Wrestlemania with Shane jumping off the top of the cell, a squash match on Raw against local jobbers, Cody Rhodes quitting, Damien Sandow getting released, Titus O'Neil getting a 90 day suspension for goofing around, Daniel Bryan retired, Eva Marie had a match at Wrestlemania quite frankly not far below the quality of match Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns each had, the Women had the MOTN at a Wrestlemania, a near 1 hour match on WWE TV and Austin Aries signing with WWE.
> 
> Oh and Steve Lombardi got released.
> 
> ...


Don't forget hornswoggle was also released, 8 years too late


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## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Rewatched * Shamrock vs Vader at In Your House: A Cold Day in Hell* yesterday.


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## Kyle DaCosta (Jun 4, 2016)

With no backstory assistance, Shinsuke Nakmura and Sami Zayn still put on a classic affair. It was a tremendously problematic undertaking, yet these two virtuosos constructed something exquisite in spite of no story to play off. It is one of the greatest exhibition matches ever. Nakamura effortlessly adjusted to NXT’s style and made it look like he had wrestled Zayn an infinite amount of times. These two had astounding chemistry, possessing the same vision and direction of where they wanted to take the match and placing the crowd in the palm of their hands. The crowd just went on for the unforeseeable ride, filled with twists and turns and peaks and valleys. The chain wrestling to start was crisp and smooth, transitioning and setting up the match’s pace so effortlessly.

The match was built on showmanship with both wrestlers trying to outperform the other in every facet. It manufactured into an exquisite “anything you can do, I can do better” seesaw battle with unbridled intensity, hard-hitting strikes, breathtaking spots, blistering sequences, and top-of-the-line athleticism. You name it: psychology, storytelling, physicality, selling, pacing, timing, moves, chemistry, high spots, building to the crescendo; it is all here. **** 3/4


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## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Despite not being a fan of Zayn, the match with Nakamura was great. I will say though, the crowd got a bit annoying to me with all the chants. I'm sure I'm the only one who feels that way or one of the few, but I recall the crowd taking me out of the match a bit with the constant chanting. Was still a great match, I need to rematch it again to refresh my mind but I'd be somewhere around the **** 1/4, ****1/2 range.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Weird because I feel without that crowd the match would be less than **** but they were so into it I'd have it really damn close to *****


----------



## Kyle DaCosta (Jun 4, 2016)

Jaysin said:


> Despite not being a fan of Zayn, the match with Nakamura was great. I will say though, the crowd got a bit annoying to me with all the chants. I'm sure I'm the only one who feels that way or one of the few, but I recall the crowd taking me out of the match a bit with the constant chanting. Was still a great match, I need to rematch it again to refresh my mind but I'd be somewhere around the **** 1/4, ****1/2 range.


All due respect, I don't understand how anyone could dislike Zayn. He's the best pure white-meat babyface in who knows how long. His selling abilities are unparalleled, possessing some of the most realistic and sympathetic facial expressions and body language to the point where it is palpable, as you can feel his "discomfort".


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I've been saying Reigns vs Brock II is going to be the SummerSlam main event for a while now. I don't see how Rollins is put into that, especially when he's p. much a lock going to take a loss come MITB. (unless it ends dirty and they drag it out to Battleground, lolz)
> 
> Reigns getting the W over Lesnar is the final piece of the puzzle left to accomplish. That's where the story has taken us.


Oh I could absolutely see Roman/Lesnar II happening, I just didn't know what else to do with Rollins unless they pull the trigger on the match with Triple H.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They seem intent on keeping Rollins heel, so even that feels doubtful. (who knows w/the way plans can change in WWE, though) They could pull something out their ass just to give something for Rollins to win. idk a random program vs Bray is something fresh, if the latter does stick as a babyface. I'm going WAY off base here, only b/c I can't see how they would justify yet another PPV match vs Cena or Ambrose.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

I have no real reason why I don't care for him. I think it's mainly the character, just the happy go lucky babyface. I can't get behind him, however I respect his in ring ability and don't question it, just simply don't care for him. I don't hate him or anything by any means, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch him.

Edit: This is a response to Kyle, I'm not sure how to quote on mobile.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm trying to find a way to figure this perception out, alas, it's completely foreign to me.










something as random as this image leaves me giddy. :cozy


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Jaysin said:


> I have no real reason why I don't care for him. I think it's mainly the character, just the happy go lucky babyface. I can't get behind him, however I respect his in ring ability and don't question it, just simply don't care for him. I don't hate him or anything by any means, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch him.
> 
> Edit: This is a response to Kyle, I'm not sure how to quote on mobile.


What faces do you care for?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should have started the RAW 2004 watches at the start of the year, but I opted for the night after SummerSlam b/c a lot of the Fall stuff I missed when it aired. Plus knowing I begin w/the excellent Benoit vs Orton match that makes up for their flat PPV match is as good of a place as any.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

To be completely honest I don't really care for many at all at the moment, mainly because I'm playing catchup from when I quit watching back in 2010/2011, currently on 2012. I watch bits of Raw and have been watching some NXT shows on the Network, I don't watch SD. With that said I just haven't gotten invested into much of these new (to me) talent. Some that I like to at least somewhat answer your question, AJ (was a fan from 04 when I first saw TNA), Joe (same as AJ), Nakamura (I'm not that fond of his work, but when he was being hyped before his debut I checked out some clips and is match with AJ in NJPW I believe it was, I like his charisma and style, and he has that aura about him), Lesnar was always a favorite, and those are the few as of right now that I'm enjoying.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Speaking of Zayn & Nakamura, we've got this in a couple nights and I'm really looking forward to it.


----------



## Jaysin (Oct 2, 2005)

Watched ER 2012 last night, gotta say, I really enjoyed the Cena/Lesnar match. Pretty much a squash match, and I didn't mind Cena going over, it was just a different feel than anything else I've seen since going back through 2011-2012. Bryan/Sheamus 2/3 Falls was really good too, the arm/shoulder work was well done and both looked strong. Good show overall.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jaysin said:


> Watched ER 2012 last night, gotta say, I really enjoyed the Cena/Lesnar match. Pretty much a squash match, and I didn't mind Cena going over, it was just a different feel than anything else I've seen since going back through 2011-2012. Bryan/Sheamus 2/3 Falls was really good too, the arm/shoulder work was well done and both looked strong. Good show overall.


Lesnar vs. Cena was my MOTY for 2012 simply because it was different than anything we saw in a really, really long time up to that point.

I wish that Lesnar came back instead of Suplex City Lesnar.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Kyle DaCosta said:


> All due respect, I don't understand how anyone could dislike Zayn. He's the best pure white-meat babyface in who knows how long. His selling abilities are unparalleled, possessing some of the most realistic and sympathetic facial expressions and body language to the point where it is palpable, as you can feel his "discomfort".


When he was still in Ring of Honor and feuding with Owens I say in the 4th row for their big blow out match. If Generico lost he lost his mask and if Steen he had to leave ROH. I didn't want Steen to leave and decided I wanted him to win. I wore a Kevin Steen shirt to the event. You want to know what I was doing 5 minutes into the match? Cheering for El Generico despite the fact that I had already decided that because of the consequences of the match I wanted him to lose. He won the match and there are only a handful of moments that I was happier for. 

Based on that 1 match I can only conclude that Zayn is the best babyface that I've seen in person and I've pretty much seen everyone active in wrestling today in person.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Danielson from Extreme Rules is complete excellence.

The match we knew they could have that got jipped numerous times prior, finally got a chance to happen. And look how grand it was. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NXT Takeover: The End was another show of the year candidate imo. Not as great as Dallas, but pretty damn good.

Tye Dillinger vs. Andrade "Cien" Almas - ***
*NXT Tag Titles:* American Alpha (c) vs. The Revival - ****
Austin Aries vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - ****
*NXT Women's Title:* Asuka (c) vs. Nia Jax - *** 1/4
*NXT Championship Steel Cage Match:* Samoa Joe (c) vs. Finn Balor - *** 1/2

Yeah, whole show was good. Loved the finish to the main event and I can't fuckin wait for the inevitable Joe vs. Nakamura. Hopefully in Brooklyn?


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Damn good show tonight.

*NXT TakeOver: The End*

Andrade "Cien" Almas vs. Tye Dillinger - **3/4

The Revival vs. American Alpha - ****1/4

Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Austin Aries - ***3/4

Nia Jax vs. Asuka - ***1/2

Finn Bálor vs. Samoa Joe - ***

Main event was a bit disappointing, but still enjoyable. Pretty good TakeOver.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Martins said:


> Finn Bálor vs. Samoa Joe - ***
> 
> Main event was a bit disappointing, but still enjoyable.


I really liked the intensity in the first several minutes with all the hard chops and kicks and usage of the cage. That one that Joe took to the face while Balor was standing on the ropes was fucking NASTY. Didn't really care for them casually trading sequences in the last couple minutes though, but man that finish was awesome. Really didn't expect to see that.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


> I really liked the intensity in the first several minutes with all the hard chops and kicks and usage of the cage. That one that Joe took to the face while Balor was standing on the ropes was fucking NASTY. Didn't really care for them casually trading sequences in the last couple minutes though, but man that finish was awesome. Really didn't expect to see that.


I enjoyed the stiffness and the strike exchanges during the initial stages of the match quite a bit, too; what bothered me was them going for the exit and trying to escape from so early on. One minute they were exchanging chops, kicks, elbows like they were trying to kill each other, the next someone's heading for the door or trying to climb the cage.

I know they both want to win the Title real bad, but this has been built up as such a pride-fueled feud from both sides that it seems weird for them to go from "IMMA KICK THE SHIT OUTTA YOU" to trying to escape the cage as quickly as possible in such a short span of time. Instead, if they'd managed to ramp up the aggressiveness even more I'd have marked the fuck out. Plus I wanted to see a bit of colour, but we all figured that wasn't gonna happen 

Finish was awesome though, and Joe making anyone his bitch is always entertaining.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Martins said:


> I enjoyed the stiffness and the strike exchanges during the initial stages of the match quite a bit, too; what bothered me was them going for the exit and trying to escape from so early on. One minute they were exchanging chops, kicks, elbows like they were trying to kill each other, the next someone's heading for the door or trying to climb the cage.
> 
> I know they both want to win the Title real bad, but this has been built up as such a pride-fueled feud from both sides that it seems weird for them to go from "IMMA KICK THE SHIT OUTTA YOU" to trying to escape the cage as quickly as possible in such a short span of time. Instead, if they'd managed to ramp up the aggressiveness even more I'd have marked the fuck out. Plus I wanted to see a bit of colour, but we all figured that wasn't gonna happen
> 
> Finish was awesome though, and Joe making anyone his bitch is always entertaining.


I wasn't bothered by the early attempts at escaping because I felt like they did away with it quickly. It really felt like both of them wanted to decisively beat the other guy.

I'm expecting (or hoping) that Balor either debuts at MITB to help Styles or he gets drafted somewhere next month. I feel like he's run his course in NXT and they don't really need him at the top anymore with Joe, Nakamura, Aries, the returning Itami, and the soon to debut Bobby Roode I'm sure.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Almas vs. Dillinger - **1/2
American Alpha vs. The Revival - ****1/4
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Austin Aries - ****1/2
Asuka vs. Nia Jax - **1/2
Samoa Joe vs. Finn Balor - ***3/4

I think Balor will have one more match at Brooklyn before leaving NXT for good and his opponent will either be Itami, Roode or Aries.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> Lesnar vs. Cena was my MOTY for 2012 simply because it was different than anything we saw in a really, really long time up to that point.
> 
> I wish that Lesnar came back instead of Suplex City Lesnar.



I had to do co-MOTY for 2012, because Punk/Bryan OTL 12' and Lesnar/Cena ER 12' were both equally great, in completely different ways. Lesnar/Cena might have won outright if they hadn't done that absolutely SHIT finish that just killed the vibe from the entire match, for me at least. Cena was such a great baby face in that match, he was finally getting some legitimate sympathy, from Chicago fans of all people, and yet they flushed it all down the toilet by doing the standard "Super Cena" come back and finish. Bleh, whenever I rewatch that match I turn it off as soon as Cena decks Lesnar with the chain and splits his wig.




FITZ said:


> When he was still in Ring of Honor and feuding with Owens I say in the 4th row for their big blow out match. If Generico lost he lost his mask and if Steen he had to leave ROH. I didn't want Steen to leave and decided I wanted him to win. I wore a Kevin Steen shirt to the event. You want to know what I was doing 5 minutes into the match? Cheering for El Generico despite the fact that I had already decided that because of the consequences of the match I wanted him to lose. He won the match and there are only a handful of moments that I was happier for.
> 
> Based on that 1 match I can only conclude that Zayn is the best babyface that I've seen in person and I've pretty much seen everyone active in wrestling today in person.


Since I started watching wrestling again in 2009, the HARDEST I've ever pulled for a wrestler in a match is a tie, between desperately wanting Bryan to beat Orton/Batista at WM 30, and pulling for Sami to beat Neville for the NXT Championship in their singles bout. Those were the two instances where I threw all rational thought and reason out the window, scooted up to the edge of my seat, and acted like a little kid who doesn't realize it's fixed pulling for his guy to win.

The best pure baby faces I've ever see in the ring in my time watching wrestling are Ricky Steamboat, Rey Mysterio, Sami Zayn, and Daniel Bryan. Those guys achieved a level of greatness and likability that simply made it impossible for you to root against them. Sami, in a lot of ways, combines the best things Ricky Steamboat did (the passion, the fire, the intensity, and the picture perfect facial expressions that help get sympathy and tell the story) with the best things Rey did (the high flying, breath taking moves, being smaller so he's always at a size disadvantage), which makes him pretty much the perfect baby face.

Not to mention, now that I've listened to all his interviews and realize he's George Costanza as far as his real personality and how he acts in real life, I just love him that much more. Him telling the story about going through a drive thru and grilling the poor lady at the window about whether she was going to throw out the extra burgers had me positively rolling :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, I guess I gotta double post here cause this thread, really this entire forum, is dead lately. I haven't been that active lately either, that's what happens when the two most popular wrestlers, who curry the most support and favor with the fans, were turned heel to accommodate a wrestler who has been almost universally rejected as a main event baby face yet WWE continues to force the narrative. Maybe others have stopped watching and/or posting for other reasons, but I can say with all honesty and sincerity that Rollins returning, only to have WWE waste all the good will and support by keeping him heel, and then turning AJ heel after he started getting the strongest baby face reactions on the main roster was the final straw for me. I already was only intermittently following the product, I stopped DVR'ing Raw around February, and was only watching PPV's cause I have the Network. Now I'm not even doing that, I've only seen 2 main roster matches since the Raw after WM 32, Styles/Reigns PB and Owens/Zayn PB, which I watched only because Austin raved and pimped them to the moon on his podcast. I didn't watch any of ER and don't plan on it. 

All of this is to say, WWE has caused me to forget at times why I even bother to watch their crummy shows.

Fortunately, I found somewhat of a cure:

I watched Shinsuke Nakamura wrestle Austin Aries. Actually it wasn't even the match, which was definitely GREAT, probably in the **** area for me personally. No, it was just watching Nakamura's entrance. That's all it took. The music, speaking of which, raise your hand if you are like me and being forced to eat some serious crow because WWE some how actually managed to give Nakamura a theme that is comparable in quality to his NJPW theme? Outside of Kevin Steen's "Unsettling Differences" theme, which is my absolute favorite entrance song (though obviously not my favorite entrance, nothing will ever top Undertaker for that honor), Nakamura's NJPW theme was my favorite match of song and wrestler in the entire industry. The song itself was bad ass, the song serving as the entrance for Nakamura was about as perfect as it gets. So, the fact that WWE managed to come up with a theme that actually rivals THAT masterpiece, well, I'm amazed. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

ANYWAY, back to Nakamura. Just watching him make his entrance, coupled with that awesome song and the AWESOME crowd response to his entrance, immediately cleansed my tainted wrestling pallet and had me juiced up to watch some pro graps. This might sound like hyperbole, but it's not: Nakamura has as much natural and innate charisma as any wrestler I've ever seen. He's equaled Rock, Dusty, Hogan, Savage, Austin, Eddie, he's up there with all of them in the "I literally cannot take my eyes off of this guy when he's on my television screen, and everything he does is pleasing to me and seems like the most awesome thing ever." That's the level he's at for me, any new little quirk or mannerism he decides to do immediately becomes awesome. 

I honestly believe if Nakamura debuted on the main roster after Summerslam 2016, by the time the Royal Rumble came he'd be far and away the most popular and genuinely OVER wresrler on the roster, that it would take less than 1 month from the day he debuted for him to totally capture every fan's imagination and become one of if not THE main reasons they buy tickets or watch the show, small boys and girls, teenage boys and girls, adults, nobody is immune to the unique charms of the King.

So, I meant for this post to be a review of the Aries/Nakamura match but obviously that's gone out the window. So here is a TL;DR: If you're feeling as down on the product as it seems just about everyone is, and if it's perceptibly diminishing your passion for watching all wrestling, jusy go watch Nakamura vs Aries, or if you haven't seen it his other NXT Takeover match against Zayn, which will in all likelihood be the MOTY for 2016.

I refuse to watch WWE programming while Reigns is the top baby face, while AJ Styles and to a lesser extent Doc/Gallows remain heels, and not only a heels but a flat out jobber heels whose only purpose is to enhance Reigns "aura" and carry him to watchable matches, and while Rollins stays a heel in order to give Roman yet ANOTHER superior opponent to carry him and bounce around from him and keep him from tripping over his own feet. I just cannot stomach it. WWE has always had horrible booking overall with brief periods of competence, but theyve done in 2016 is truly unprecedented: killing off two white hot baby faces who could EASILY be their top good guys for the next 3-4 years, guys that have everything Vince likes INCLUDING a good look, by turning them heel and jobbing them out to a baby face world champion who hasn't gotten anything better than a 60/40, negative/positive crowd reaction in his entire time as a singles baby face. This is about as bad as it gets, because the damage they did to Seth and AJ cannot be undone. They will never become as popular and successful as they could have been had WWE given a single shit about them besides what they can do for Roman. They will still become even more successful than they already are, but they won't reach where they could have. Don't believe me? Imagine if Steve Austin, after he injured his neck against Owen Hart, if he was taken off TV, and then returns at the Royal Rumble 98' as a heel screwing over Undertaker, costing him the title, and then aligned himself with Mr. McMahon as his manager. If WWE had done that, then say tried to reverse course after SS 98' and tried to turn Austin back baby face, he would still have been a huge star but he'd have never reached the levels he did and that's just the truth.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I haven't watched a wrestling match since, what, WM? That streak of no wrasslin' has come to an end... w/NXT Takeover: (ironically named) The End. And once again, NXT Takeover kicks ass. But... some of the praise for one of the matches is pretty overblown imo.

Almas/Dillinger: **1/2
AA/Revival: ****
Nakamura/Aries: ***3/4
Asuka/Nia: ***1/4
Joe/Bálor: ***1/4

Almas/Dillinger was a nice showcase... for Tye Dillinger. He looked GREAT out there, and certainly proved a point that he can hang w/the big names. Almas looked alright, but I don't think he clicked all that well w/Tye, he looked a little choppy there if you ask me, but still impressive in some areas. Decent start to the show, no Owens/Parker but okay nonetheless.

AA/Revival was FANTASTIC. MOTN by far, and easily the best Tag match I've ever seen on NXT. A lot of you liked Dallas better, and that's fine, but while Dallas had the advantage thanks to the atmosphere and the feelgood ending, as a wrestling match from point A to B goes, this was clearly better in my eyes. One of the most creative Tag matches I've seen in a long ass time (though it is one of the only ones I've seen in a long ass time ). Both teams have perfect chemistry. Gable is impossibly likeable, Jordan is an ass-kicking machine, and the Revival are absolutely terrific as despicable, mean heels that you just love to hate. None of the teams wasted any motions, so much great Tag work, so many creative and wonderfully executed sequences, the character work was great... even the ending made sense, at it worked as a downer, sad outcome to setup for what would happen after the match (which, holy motherfucking shit). Stupendous.

Now... am I the only one that feels like Nakamura/Aries was a little disappointing? I gotta be honest. Maybe it was bad enough it had to follow AA/Revival, but I feel like there was a lot of heaps in logic here and there. The fact alone that Nak didn't even try to seek out Aries' taped ribs is questionable, regardless of wheater or not that was a legit injury. If it was, then don't go stiff, work softballs on it, but WORK IT ANYWAY! You have a clear ass target in front of you, dude! What did you do to it, a bunch of knees spread across a 15 minute match? C'mon, Nak, you're better than that. And Aries' leg work was also wasted potential - it was so on and off I didn't even care that Nak no sold it later as he had way too much time to recover, so I actually believe the pain wore off. And Aries doing that Suicide Dive at the end, despite the 9/10 chances that Nak was gonna get counted out from that Death Valley Driver spot, therefore making it an incredibly unnecessary and dumb risk... ugh. That spot annoyed me. Many of you probably liked it, and I'm pretty certain I gave passes to worse and dumber spots in the past - not giving one to this is probably related to my lack of care about current wrestling - but I just didn't like it. Not to mention, I don't feel like these two guys clicked very well. I felt the opposite of when I saw Zayn/Nak, which felt like they had wrestled a million times before - this truly felt like the 1st time these two were ever touching in the ring, and that's not in a particularly great way.

But don't get me wrong, I still really liked the match. It was a great exhibition-style fight between two badasses who rank among the best in the world. Like the type of back-and-forth fights that don't feel choreographed or prepositioned, but rather actual opening-seeking gladiator battles. Aries is such an asshole that it's great, he played his character, who wanted to prove a point against Nak, to a T. Nak is just Nak, what can you say. The stiffness and the brutality in some of the shots was quite noticeable, and the atmosphere was electric as well. I feel like, if Aries didn't have those taped ribs (which may have steemed from a legit injury or not, so who knows if they had just planned the match out that way before and were afraid to improvise) and they worked that exact same match again, I would've certainly liked it more. As it is, it's still really good, bordering great... but I definitely wasn't blown away, have to say that.

As for the last two matches, Asuka/Nia was pretty damn good. I've grown to like Bayley/Nia from London more than I originally did overtime, though I still feel like that match was essentially Bayley carrying a rather green Nia Jax. Nia has clearly evolved, though, and this was not an Asuka carryjob as much as Asuka did a good bulk of the work, sure, but Nia had a strong performance in her own. It was easily her best, and her best match so far. She needs to work on her selling, but she's on a good track. The raw skill vs. raw power dynamic was played off excellently, and in some parts, I thought Nia actually did have Asuka's number. Shame that the ending virtually came outta nowhere, 5 minutes longer and it would've been pretty terrific. Not exactly a classic, but another commendable women's effort on a Takeover. 

And as for Joe/Bálor... it seems we still have yet to see a truly great Cage match from WWE in the last many years. While certainly not BAD, good for what it was, it was by far the worst PPV match they had together. London and Dallas blow it out of the water completely. The early escape attempts weren't even the problem to me. They wrestled just about the blandest match they could've possibly had in the given circumstances. And while Dallas proved that they weren't allowed to have a complete bloodbath, at least kick the violence up a notch! You're in a fucking Steel Cage! Sigh, whatever. Still a good match, at least.

Superb show, overall, w/only match being less than good, and still being decent for what it was. Brooklyn II should destroy it, though. Joe/Nakamura, Asuka/Bayley II, Revival/AA/Gargano & Ciampa combo, Roode debut... damn.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

_*Probably the most skippable Takeover but still a good one with nothing bad on it. They really need to stop doing Takeovers at Full Sail because they feel so insignificant at Full Sail after being in bigger venues so much in the past year. Tye/Almas was fun. Almas looked like a geek when he came out though. I know he unmasked in Mexico but I wish that they'd just done a Rey with him and had him be the next masked superstar. Easy merch sell and he looks so much better masked imo. NXT debut squashes are always odd in the sense that the new guy works a regular shine-heat-finish match where the other guy gets to showcase almost as much of his own offence but this was that problem turned up to the max. Granted Tye is really over and that was going to be an issue regardless but this felt like as much of if not more of a showcase for Tye than Almas. Thankfully Almas did enough on his end to make himself look good too despite the weird booking of the match. Finisher is really tame mind which is a problem for so many of these NXT guys. Like they can all do these great moves and then a double knees in the corner is the finish? Ok. If Tye is going to be the debut opponent for all these new guys then he NEEDS to just once beat one of them on their debuts. Would be an awesome moment and set up an instant hot program for the pair of them. Revival/Alpha was really good. Not Dallas because it didn't have the atmosphere or the same level of finishing run but still really great. Good way to debut Authors of Pain too. Oh and that's an awesome name for a monster tag team. Aries/Nakamura was borderline great. No hot finish run but I kinda like that Aries made a mistake and Nakamura punished him for it straight away, even if it comes at the expense of the quality of the match. Jax/Asuka was good for what it was but it felt way too short and like Jax went down way too easily/quickly. Thought Jax looked really good again here and totally outclassed Asuka who I thought brought next to nothing to this. No sympathetic babyface selling and barely anything in terms of offence period, let alone nasty looking offence. I get why she isn't laying the strikes in with girls like Alexa Bliss but this was the showcase for how violent Asuka can get and they totally missed the ball with it. Match was good though because Jax works a control segment really well as a nasty monster heel. No idea why people think she's not even good let alone bad. Joe/Balor was bleh. Given the build and the stip, this lacked a serious amount of heat. Felt more like a regular first time title match that just so happened to be in a cage because it was that time of the year booking. Joe looked good but not BITW great like he did in Dallas. Finn brought nothing yet again. Like he's not bad, he's just nothing. Like he goes in the ring, does his moves and that is literally it. He doesn't emote, he doesn't rally the crowd behind him, he doesn't sell. Honestly the moves he does aren't even all that impressive. But this has been the case since day 1 and at least everyone else seems to be over the "but cool face paint and entrance" thing now. 

Joe/Nakamura should headline Brooklyn though and that could be FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.*_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched my all time favourite and greatest match ever today because I was bored and why not?

HBK Vs Taker - HIAC - CAL SCALE RATING =


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

People in the U.S., you can pre-order the Attitude Era Vol.3 Blu Ray for just $14.24 right now. Really considering pulling the trigger myself. https://www.amazon.com/WWE-Attitude...qid=1465591863&sr=8-1&keywords=attitude+era+3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well I havn't bought a WWE DVD/BD set in over a year but ill be getting this when it hits our shores. Can't pass up on that listing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of new releases, the Bischoff doc is worth a watch .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, going back and watching what I missed, the April 25th edition of RAW may just be in best in-ring episode they've had this year.

Sheamus vs. AJ Styles - *** 1/2 (Finish is a bit abrupt, but this is one hell of a physical match)

The Usos vs. Gallows & Anderson - *** (The Club's in ring debut and the best match they had together imo)

Sami Zayn vs. Rusev - *** 1/4 (Holy shit what a sleeper. They had great chemistry together. Finish is hilarious too once Lana throws her shoes at Sami :lol)

Too bad Reigns/Del Rio was a snoozer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE REVIVAL 

:mark:

Excellent match, too. But that surprise result put me on a whole different level. I fear the eventual rematch vs the indie geeks that'll suck, but at least these guys got to be back on top again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> THE REVIVAL
> 
> :mark:
> 
> Excellent match, too. But that surprise result put me on a whole different level. I fear the eventual rematch vs the indie geeks that'll suck, but at least these guys got to be back on top again.


What did you think of the whole show?

And Takeover: Dallas too, for the matter, I don't think I've heard your thoughts on that?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Takeover: The End:

Good show, turned out much better than I had ended up anticipating. Very well rounded, which is why I seemed to be so into. Basically most matches were really snug and I almost get a kick out of that when seeing everyone laid into each other on an intended "big night".

The Sombra vs Dillinger match did its job. I feared using Tye here was going to backfire on the guy obviously going to win his debut. Crowd seemed to smooth out by the end, after the offense of Sombra, or Cien, won em over. This was better of a showcase than say what Tye vs Crews was in Brooklyn.

Loved the tag, would say I preferred it over the first. All four were total fire. They just don't let up, and bless their hearts for making their matches so compelling on the big stage. The title change ruled, b/c who expected it? I walked into this really annoyed b/c The Revival lost to the indie geeks (Gargano/Ciampa, seriously, that's all their persona is rn) on the NXT a week before this which was outrageous. But all that aside, and general "cynicism" of expectations, the nearfalls were heaven & easy to believe on both sides. The Revival is by far my favorite duo in the whole of WWE rn, so seeing these dudes continue to get a rub is something that can put a smile on my face. Wasn't ready for them to lose the straps in Dallas, even if Alpha has already established themselves as a hell of a unit. This is what some like to look for, so yeah, MOTN here.

Nakamura vs Aries was really, really good. Aries should be a full heel following this, but the baby steps towards it were well in place given the nature of this match. I thought his deliberate ways, and flat out DOMINATING Nakamura did a ton for him, even w/the loss. He needed more than *just* to look like "hey I'm Austin Aries, I got plenty of cool moves that can earn a pop too". He's better off being a jerk to the fans, b/c he can be great at that, and messing w/their expectations slightly, while still putting on a hell of an effort. Plus, this shows how strong of a babyface fighting from underneath Nakamura is. Against Zayn that wasn't something showcased (and w/good reason) and all the short TV matches were him working on top. This turned out nicely. I'm gonna enjoy returning to it. Finish is SICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. Popped for a death valley driver on the apron spot b/c I knew Aries does it & it feels like a long time since he brought it out. (and he used it on Punk in 2005, so c'mon, right?) That's marky, but what can I say. Good transition spot to try and go for broke in missing the dive, which allows Naka to only squeak by.

Enjoyed Nia Jax vs Asuka. Not a great match, per say, b/c I don't think they were quite given that chance to exceed there, but Nia Jax is good. There's no doubt about it. She's a monster, she works like a monster, she's totally convincing as a monster. Didn't mind Asuka in it, but you could tell this was more contained via Nia's domination through her which spawned the first time ever desperation by Asuka to just lay in as many gnarly kicks to the face/skull as she could to drop the bruiser. Nia outworked Bayley BIG TIME in their rematch a few weeks ago (worth a look; would be even better had Bayley sold during it) and now she put in another memorable outing on another Takeover. I can cope w/her losses being what they are. The Bayley one was perfection, and this felt logical. You kick someone in the head enough, they well go down. There just could have been a touch more behind it overall. Between these three, there's proven worth. It's the rest of the roster I feel needs to beef up to contain some air of consistency.

I can go out on a limb and say I was cool w/the main event. The start kind of worried me b/c it looked like they were going to lock up or do fancy bs in a HEATED GRUDGE MATCH, before Joe fooled Balor and started to lay it in on him. Like the majority of the show, this was p. damn aggressive. Joe was quality. Not Dallas godly, or even on par to where their best match was in London. Still Joe is all I had to truly care about this from start to finish. Balor was.... ok. If that's being nicer than I want to be. Some of his strikes were great, but he doesn't do much else to feel invested in. At a time here or there during this I started to go blank watching b/c there's nothing going on. This is the main event and the first time on the show I'm losing a twinge of interest b/c of this guy. Sure kicking the living FUCK out of Joe in the face was memorable, but what else are you giving me through your role? At least this worked out to where I was fine w/it by the end. Compared to what feels like numerous other matches involving him where they come, they go, either I hate it or had nothing to remember. Glad the finish was the super Muscle Buster and not the contrived Coup de Grace from the top of the cage. I anticipated a Balor championship win, so once he got annihilated that's when I was feeling p. darn good about the eventual 3 count. Right guy went over. Feud is finally done w/a decent enough capper, even if the cage environment wasn't the most utilized structure. Memorable ending, to say the least. I'll chalk that up as a positive. And this HAS to mean Balor is done out of the championship picture. Please, lets hope so. Joe vs Nakamura is the go to en route to Brooklyn. There's no reason it isn't.

PS: BOBBY ROODE

PPS: PRECIOUS PAUL ELLERING. Didn't see that coming.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I should hopefully watch the NXT show tonight.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT Takeover: The End
(June 8, 2016)*

Tye Dillinger vs Andrade "Cien" Almas *3/4

NXT Tag Team Championship
American Alpha (c) vs The Revival ***

Austin Aries vs Shinsuke Nakamura ***1/4

NXT Women's Championship
Asuka (c) vs Nia Jax **

NXT Championship - Steel Cage Match
Samoa Joe (c) vs Finn Bálor **

Overall Rating: 4.25


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Full list of participants for the Cruiserweight Classic. Remember a luchador was told to get a new name and gear? Turns out it was Mascara Dorada (Gran Metalik)!



Spoiler: list



1.Kota Ibushi
2.Gran Metalik
3.Tajiri
4.Zack Sabre Jr.
5.Noam Dar
6.Da Mack
7.Zumbi
8.Clement Petoit
9.Fabian Aichner
10.Harv Sihra
11.Gurv Sihra
12.Rich Swann
13.Brian Kendrick
14.Cedric Alexander
15.Akira Tozawa
16.Jack Gallagher
17.Johnny Gargano
18.Tony Nese
19.Tomasso Ciampa
20.Ho Ho Lun
21.TJ Perkins
22.Anthony Bennett
23.Drew Gulak
24.Tyson Dux
25.Lince Dorado
26.Sean Maluta
27.Raul Mendoza
28.Kenneth Johnson
29.Alejandro Saez
30.Damien Slater
31.Jason Lee
32.Ariya Daivari


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seeing Tajiri on that list can't help but make one happy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Definitely expecting Sabre Jr. vs. Ibushi in the finals. Guessing the other two semi finalists will be Tozawa & Gargano. Gotta get someone from USA in there somewhere.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> Speaking of new releases, the Bischoff doc is worth a watch .


Damn you weren't kidding dude. I decided to give the Bischoff doc a shot last nigh when I was bored and it absolutely blew me away how well done and entertaining it was. I was starting to think WWE had lost their touch with documentary's after the run of crummy ones they've had lately, but man this was GREAT. Probably the best one since the Foley doc. 

I thought it showed a different side to Bischoff, and actually it made me respect him a bit more because of how he owned his fuck ups and mistakes like a man and didn't try and make excuses for the role he played in creating the dysfunction in WCW.

So, I second what Cal said, definitely worth a watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've added the WCW PPVs/Clash of the Champions Cards to the OP of this thread, instead of them having a thread to itself. For anyone who's bothered lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy cow @ some of the names WWE got to compete in this tournament. Good to see Anthony Nese on their radar. Always felt like he'd make a good fit to their roster.

TAJIRI is obviously the best. Dorada being involved rules. Hope he can get some mileage. Ibushi will probably win. Not that I mind.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Damn you weren't kidding dude. I decided to give the Bischoff doc a shot last nigh when I was bored and it absolutely blew me away how well done and entertaining it was. I was starting to think WWE had lost their touch with documentary's after the run of crummy ones they've had lately, but man this was GREAT. Probably the best one since the Foley doc.
> 
> I thought it showed a different side to Bischoff, and actually it made me respect him a bit more because of how he owned his fuck ups and mistakes like a man and didn't try and make excuses for the role he played in creating the dysfunction in WCW.
> 
> So, I second what Cal said, definitely worth a watch.


Thirded. 

Definitely worth a watch, it was great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Funny how I'm always right, isn't it?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Holy cow @ some of the names WWE got to compete in this tournament. Good to see Anthony Nese on their radar. Always felt like he'd make a good fit to their roster.
> 
> TAJIRI is obviously the best. Dorada being involved rules. Hope he can get some mileage. Ibushi will probably win. Not that I mind.


I'm going to fucking :mark: so hard when Tajiri's first match happens. The last thing I saw from him was that match he had with Finlay several years back and he still obviously had IT, big time. Hoping we get to see him work some Lucha guys, I always enjoyed his matches most when he worked against opponents in that style.

I've been meaning to ask you, and everyone else in here, if they saw the Riccochet vs Will Ospreay match from the NJPW Juniors tournament. I haven't seen it myself yet, but Vader and Cornette trashed it while Austin dedicated a large part of his podcast to praising it. Is it worth watching? Or will it make my head hurt and kill my passion for wrestling?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ehhhhhh not this topic again. More of an annoyance towards it now being "infamous" than anything else. When it's just a literal butthole indie style match that's been happening for years.

I hated it, but you make your decision all yourself. Will Ospreay is absolute cancer and that's where I basically end my thoughts.

Cornette's bit on it is the best, and most fitting one out there. Ok now I'm done.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I didn't realize it had been discussed here before, I searched to see if anyone had posted on it and didn't see anything so that's why I asked. 

If it's just the same flippy bullshit that's been occurring in wrestling for over a decade now, then I'll gladly pass. I've been running out of shit to watch lately, but id rather spend 25 minutes watching this Terry Gordy/Dr. Death Texas Deathmatch for the 4th time in a month than have to taste bile while watching 2 guys find new and innovative ways to make me feel dead inside. Owens/Ambrose and Ziggler/Owens matches from earlier this year already gave me my fill of watching two guys wrestle like dipshits. I don't need any more of that. Oh well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is a big thread with people moaning about it in Other Wrestling if you're interested. Not seen it myself yet either tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> I'm going to fucking :mark: so hard when Tajiri's first match happens. The last thing I saw from him was that match he had with Finlay several years back and he still obviously had IT, big time. Hoping we get to see him work some Lucha guys, I always enjoyed his matches most when he worked against opponents in that style.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask you, and everyone else in here, if they saw the Riccochet vs Will Ospreay match from the NJPW Juniors tournament. I haven't seen it myself yet, but Vader and Cornette trashed it while Austin dedicated a large part of his podcast to praising it. Is it worth watching? Or will it make my head hurt and kill my passion for wrestling?


Wrote about it here, but I'll copy-paste it for the lazy (like me)



Spoiler: thoughts



People criticising the opening sequence are missing the context of it being wrestling's two hottest high-flyers trying to one-up the other in showmanship. They were ego-driven the entire match. A lot of wrestling starts with flashy yet perfunctory work, this was just an extension of that feeling out process. I also think it's disingenuous to state the match as lacking a drive to win, when the rest of the match was exactly that. I'm not a fan of Ospreay's performance, if but wowed by his athleticism, but Ricochet let a lot of his spots breathe. Fair enough, it got cutesy, but they placed those spots toward the end where bomb-throwing finishing stretches usually lie. I'm not a fan of NJPW's house style for that very reason, and I think that's a problem endemic to a lot more styles than just the cruiserweight one. It seems rather disingenuous to deride these two, and not look at the bigger fault in wrestling, today.

I don't think I'm going to have the energy nor time to unpack that last sentence in comparison to other "generations", but I do agree with the basic principle that wrestling is evolving to bigger and bigger spots at the detriment to its quality. I'd argue, though, that such flaws are, in part, down to the business rapidly expanding and technology offering the ability for any old Tom, Dick & Harry to "become" a "wrestler". These guys existed in the 80s, it's just that to get recognition they had to be in bigger feds with exposure and to do so had to have talent. It stands to reason that wrestling will evolve to gymnastic acts when more and more wrestlers are using spots to get over rather than figuring out how to properly structure a match. Spots don't last, in a vacuum, and continual need to one-up your last hoorah is needed.

While true to bigger feds, and I'd assume most would point to the rapidly changing WWE style, I'd still wager its production in part of a generational/societal move toward being more attention-deficit/hyperactive in our consumption habits rather than a sheer drop in actual talent. There's a "discussion" on post-modernity within wrestling over on Voices of Wrestling, if that narrative is your thing, it isn't mine and I'll cease my conjectures here, thus. I'm merely here to offer reasoning for my praise of the aforementioned match.

I think comparing this match to my enjoy (or lack thereof) for Joshi may be an unfair one, but I'll get my comparison point out of the way, first. Ospreay/Ricochet was more entertaining, and better structured, than the vast majority of Joshi that I've seen. There's a weird dichotomy on other sites where the match is being derided yet praise is continually being bestowed upon Akira Hokuto (who I've found to be one of the more egregious workers within the style). I'm not sure I understand the difference between the two, beyond a bias toward a certain style and, perhaps, a lenience given to certain styles that expect different "wrestling rules/physics". The former is probably most true, and not all styles are created equal. I've touched on finishing stretches being fast-paced, and bomb-throwing AJPW is indicative of that, as is current day NJPW (for a quality comparison), but the problem in the instance of a high-flying match is that to setup the next spot, the breathing room between spots is mitigated beyond, perhaps, what it should be. There are guys who can work the style exceptionally (Rey), but I think it requires a helluva talent to master successfully. Ricochet does a good job, but there's a plateau.

I won't argue that this is a must-see spectacle, ready to grace many match of the year lists, but, for the style, it's a very good, if albeit pop-sugar, match. It's certainly better than quite a number of the juniour matches off of the Best of 2000s Puro poll. Perhaps that's due to the other not aging as well, but time will only tell here. I'm not hazarding this as timeless, it's not exceptional enough, but it feels more complete than the average Dragon Gate spotfest where the structure feels disjointed due to the my-turn/your-turn style they run. Sure, this match had a nefarious no-sell or three, but its parts slotted into the whole and the selling existed where need-be. I'd cheekily say that Ospreay made the obnoxious dueling forearms spot look better than Ishii, Zayn or Nakamura have this year, by simply latching onto Richochet's arm bands and using them to desperately stay afloat amidst the barrage. It was a sweet little moment, in a sequence I otherwise loathe.

I think it was interesting to see Regal defend this match, though I think the implication are obvious (WWE are courting the two), but I think that opens up a possible avenue for Will. I've never been sold on him, and he's still very cartoonishly outlandish here, but the kid has athleticism for days and no doubt would be a fabulous star to mold in the performance centre. He's certainly a better acrobat than Evan Bourne who, lest we forget, was dogging it on RoH shows in 2005/2006 only to "get it" and look like an absolute star a half decade later. Regal/Bourne from a Romania is still one of my favourite WWE house shows, and testament to what development can do to a talent.

All praise aside, lunatic spots and actual psychology (learned psychology of matches evolving as the series progresses) is all to be found in the Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi feud. It's a pity that their work was quickly latched on to around the FantasticaMania show only to be forgotten so quickly. Ironically, I'd hazard it being due to Ospreay making a name for himself, but no matter. I'll wave the lucha flag all by lonesome, once more.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Wrote about it here, but I'll copy-paste it for the lazy (like me)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First I'd just like to say, your prose is exquisite. Seriously. You know how to turn a phrase my friend, I enjoyed reading that, quite a bit actually. It's funny, one of my pet peeves is when people try to write like you did there, but they don't actually know what the words they are using mean, or don't know how those words should actually be used in a sentence. So when I started reading your review, my bullshit radar went on high alert, I kept looking to see if you actually knew what you were saying or if you just liked the smell of your own farts. Im happy to report when I finished you passed with full marks, you indeed can write. (Y)

Thank you for posting that, even though you and I generally dig a lot of the same stuff, I'm afraid this match just doesn't sound like something I'd be into. I've just reached my maximum threshold for fast paced, spot heavy, high flying stunt exhibitions. Even when those matches are done smartly and actually tell a story, I just can't enjoy matches like that anymore. Maybe I'll come around again, maybe I'll find myself in the mood for something like that, but I've just been so inundated with that style of work these last few years that I can't enjoy them as the popcorn/Hollywood blockbuster/cream puff type match they are intended to be.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

What did you guys think of Bad Blood 2003? It took place from the Compaq Center in Houston, Texas.

- Vic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This is what I thought of Bad Blood 2003. And lets never speak of it again. http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1635


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I don't usually seek out matches like Ospreay/Ricochet so I enjoyed it for what it was. Not a MOTY or anything, but I enjoyed it. It was too long for my liking with all the same stuff, though.

Bad Blood 2003 was fucking ass. The first time I watched it was on DVD when I was like 9 or 10 years old and I hated it back then so you can imagine how I'd feel about it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bad Blood 2003 is a better PPV than everything produced by WWE this year.

So it has that going for it. (this is probably still true)

Watched NXT from this week. Holy fuck @ all the editing during the Sombra vs Tye rematch. It was like watching Lucha Underground or something. Dreadful. :lmao Fans turning on him (Sombra) now too. D'oh.

At least TMDK (b/c their new name is so stupid) had a nice showing. They're my answer to hoping Gargano & Ciampa fuck off and WWE is more focused on utilizing these two over em.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Gargano's in WWE? Not going to pretend I'm an expert on him but he made a Finlay match not very enjoyable on a level Davey Richards couldn't. So, you know, high hopes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you know he used to be in a tag team w/Chuck Taylor?

Food for thought.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never seen anything worse in my life. And I've seen fucking snails have sex on tv.



Cancelled my network sub. Done with it freezing over and over. Grabbing the PPVs, Raws and SDs 2013 I have left from XWT because I fully plan to continue catching up. Hopefully they all download.

Gonna watch the Ricochet match that caused a bit of stir not long ago. Should be a pile of suck interesting. edit - is the match not free on NJ World any more? I am having the bummest right now and I'm actually TRYING to watch wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But those championships look good, amirite? 

Do you watch the network on a PS3? b/c the same garbage happens to me. But on a Roku it's flawless. Idk why that matters, and it's a shame, but that's how the formula seems to go w/the servers.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> Did you know he used to be in a tag team w/Chuck Taylor?
> 
> Food for thought.





Yeah1993 said:


> Never seen anything worse in my life. And I've seen fucking snails have sex on tv.







hello


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you're going to kill Jheri w/that.

ICARUS :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> But those championships look good, amirite?
> 
> Do you watch the network on a PS3? b/c the same garbage happens to me. But on a Roku it's flawless. Idk why that matters, and it's a shame, but that's how the formula seems to go w/the servers.


I was on a PC. But I'm positive being on PS3 would've made it even worse because of prior experiences. I could try though, I still get to use the sub until it runs out in 10 days.



Rah said:


> **** hidden content ****
> 
> hello


why the hell would you make that a hidden post??? No loss with that getting wiped from the web, I'm sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh god, watching on my laptop was hell too. So. Much. Buffering. :wtf2

Network is worth having if you got it on the right kind of system to work. Which seems to be anything that isn't a PS3 or PC/laptop. Then again I tend to get banned from XWT all the time b/c I don't seed, so I need this advantage of WWE putting all of this stuff on a service.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fuck the network and there 9.99 (which isnt 9.99 for me anyway) 

xwt brings the ratings


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But those easy to access 2004 RAWs are so nice. :cozy

I can't wait for those terrible Smackdown's to follow from the same year. (I'm trying to make this my next project I'll hopefully not abandon.)

Benoit vs Orton 8/16/04 the best thing that whole year not named Eddie vs JBL from Judgment Day. Like I'm so confident in this when the year is all said and done. p. sure Eddie vs Show, iirc April something, will be right behind these two. This is the current benchmark.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Ric Flair defeated Randy Savage at The Great American Bash 1995 from the Hara Arena in Dayton, Ohio.

- Vic


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> But those easy to access 2004 RAWs are so nice. :cozy
> 
> I can't wait for those terrible Smackdown's to follow from the same year. (I'm trying to make this my next project I'll hopefully not abandon.)
> 
> Benoit vs Orton 8/16/04 the best thing that whole year not named Eddie vs JBL from Judgment Day. Like I'm so confident in this when the year is all said and done. p. sure Eddie vs Show, iirc April something, will be right behind these two. This is the current benchmark.


I'd have Benoit/Orton 3rd if if not for the finish. It actually bothered me enough to drop it below Rey/Noble and Rey/Chavo (which is not any shame on it). In fact I think as said as much......


(posting other WWE 2004 top stuff to remind myself that I used to write about wrestling



> *Eddie Guerrero v. The Big Show (SmackDown 4/15/04)*
> I made a list of all the WWE matches I want to watch for the 2000s, and this wasn't even on it. I had no intention to even watch it for the list and only did because a while ago I put it on the same disc as another match I have planned to watch. I am so glad I wound up checking it out again because it completely fucking blew me away. The first and only time I watched this was in 2011 and I thought it was 'very good not great'. 2011 me is a bigger piece of shit than I realised because this is clearly amazing. I was in complete awe while watching it. Show looked maybe the best he ever has. He's a huge, huge guy, but I'm not sure he's ever looked bigger than he has here. I remember a great post made by someone that said Show kind of always looked like a superweight instead of a giant, which was OK, yet you want a giant looking like a giant. I'll be damned if I didn't mistake him for motherfucking Andre here. While I think some of it has to do with how small Eddie is, he was really working perfectly. I adore how he found ways to chuck Eddie around with one arm, including that awesomely awesome awesomesauce one-arm Irish whip. The one-arm sweep while Show was on his knees and Eddie was standing was incredible, too. He practically stands on Eddie's head at one point. The head which held the brain of a genius. Guerrero, man. Goddamn Eddie Guerrero. I think 2003/2004 is really the first time he became a great babyface, but man did he become a GREAT babyface or what? His selling while getting pummelled was perfect. I think my favourite was how he cringed and yelled (I think he said something like 'oh GEEEEEZ') when Show had this monster armbar on (WITH ONE ARM). Or all the cool ways he found to slide across the ring when Show would throw him. He also found awesome ways to combat Show and make his comebacks. The dropkick to the leg so Show goes face-first into the turnbuckle was amazing and perfectly timed. He rakes the eyes, stomps on the toes, and even pulls at the chest-hair (!!!!) to try to get the match in his favour. I think things like that made Show seem like even more of a giant. It's like Jerry lighting Tom's tail on fire with a candle because Tom is so much bigger than he is and he has to do those things to win (or, whatever Tom and Jerry was about that wasn't 'winning'). The wrench being snuck into the boot is one of the more amusing Lie, Cheat, Steal spots and Eddie firing way like mad at the head to capitalise was bizarrely satisfying despite not really being a sneaky tactic. Similarly I think the ref 'bump' was better than most ref bumps. Show kicks out by throwing Eddie and Eddie lands on top of the ref; looked pretty legit as far as ref's being wiped goes. Then Eddie uses a low-blow (a sneaky tactic!) and wins with the frog splash. That really felt like a hard-earned and well-deserved victory (despite the SNEAKY). I only have like 5 matches on my list right now and HHH/Jericho LMS is at the bottom. I'm not sure that's as good as this. Really a phenomenally good match; close to being a top 5 for SmackDown. While I'm at it, this is likely a top ten for Eddie Guerrero. I might watch it again tomorrow morning.
> 
> (the next day)
> ...


It's the best Benoit/Orton IMO. 1/13/06 is pretty close. Found that No Hold's Barred overrated, though still very good. SummerSlam's probably the worst of the four and it's still also very good. Those two complimented each other so well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like the finish b/c the context of what Triple H's motivations were made all the sense in the world. (can't beat Benoit, looks to target Orton to easily get the championship back, yada yada) The kind of thing that when you look back on it, pads it, more than say "in the moment" you're a tiny bit miffed it didn't end clean like on the PPV.

The squash point thought, holy crap, right? Benoit MAULS Orton for 8 minutes non stop. It's unreal. Literally, no exaggeration whatsoever unreal to witness. The way he can put himself in such a desperate "I have to be World Champion again" scenario as a babyface is astounding. He's not waiting for Orton to dictate a damn thing, and begins to pulverizes him w/o taking a single breath. Love, LOVE the idea that Benoit may have let up to allow Orton too much the night prior, which is how he got caught in the RKO outta nowhere to lose. He had egg on his face, so to speak. You read into so much through Benoit's desperate cling to be the best guy on RAW. Orton's selling in this was out of this world. When he hits his knee drop despite it being the destroyed appendage, holy cow @ his sell job on the mindless mistake he made. The dedication to make all the work he went through before hitting a single move (which was a dropkick out of his own desperation) was on point. Benoit left this smelling like a rose, despite taking two losses in a row. Which I say the finish does give him a bit of wiggle room there, even outside of the other context I pointed out. Fans wouldn't have lost interest had Orton beat him clean two straight shows, but you know, doesn't hurt a guy who's THIS threatening and doesn't earn the victory. (then again, I can think of Minoru Suzuki who lost all those IWGP Championship matches clean and he was just as gnarly on offense as Benoit. He was obviously ok in credibility despite the losses.) Easily their best match together for me, too. w/o even discrediting their others. (I've always been a bit whatever to the Summerslam match, but I'm willing to see it again to revise the opinion)


I hope that Mysterio vs Noble match is on youtube or something. Mysterio vs Chavo from GAB has a good chance to rank really high. Always thought it was quite excellent. Another PPV match off the top of my head that ranks high momentarily is Benoit vs Kane. Annnnnnnd I can't deny how much I've always been a fan of the wild Orton vs Foley match from Backlash. So many times watched. Been too long since I've seen Eddie vs Brock. I have no opinion on it, tbhayley. Even if I'm like 100% certain it's at the very least _GOOD_. TV is the real goal here on seeing what makes the cut. The handful from PPV that is worth remembering is all kind of locked down.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

I really don't like Gargano.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well now I really wanna watch Benoit/Orton from Raw again. So I will. Love having Raw 04 readily available to me on DVD .

For anyone else who wants to watch it but doesn't have the network or anything, I uploaded it ages ago http://dai.ly/k6f9UPusLc8aqR4W6i4 .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After Yeah's write up of Rey/Noble, i'd like to see it myself. Found it on YT;


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stellar. I'll give this a go today.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If you like it try to squeeze in their match from 11/2/07 SmackDown as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually remember that one. (not that I won't try and watch it, too) Mostly b/c mid 07, through 08 I kept wanting Noble to get a push of any kind out of the TV exposure he was receiving. Thinking a competitive match vs Mysterio on Smackdown meant good things for him. 17 year old me reaching for the stars.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I will never forget this. :lmao












Could never know if Palumbo was purposely misspelled.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gonna ponder if that's for heel purposes or b/c Noble is too country to spell a name properly. :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That tag title match was such a mess. Lol. 

Ziggler vs. Corbin...never again. Decent match but never again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> That tag title match was such a mess. Lol.
> 
> Ziggler vs. Corbin...never again. Decent match but never again.


I was actually REALLY surprised (in a pleasant way) by Corbin/Ziggler. Corbin looked fantastic.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

He did a good job protecting Ziggler on the botch on the steps. I've seen them work enough though. 

This show is fucking dreadful considering the hype it got. It's a special Sunday night network edition of Raw up to this point.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Corey said:


> I was actually REALLY surprised (in a pleasant way) by Corbin/Ziggler. Corbin looked fantastic.


Well, I really enjoyed the opening section of that (Dolph Ziggler telling a story and not going through the exact carbon copy motions he has developed for going on three years? cue the Farnsworth Whaaaa. Wish that little story of Dolph using his amateur background along the lines of his technical wrestling request to try and get Corbin down but Corbin is too big so ultimately Dolph loses would've been the constant story: but alas they broke that off unfortunately to do the same ol Ziggler shit albeit I liked Corbin's offense in this one. Steve Austin preaches you can have the most technical punch in the world but that isn't gonna register in the cheap seats the way a Hansen haymaker or Funk/Dusty jab would. Well, I heard those Corbin punches from my tv set loud and clear for sure! Nice to see a guy not treat the ref as invisible for once too. Kudos to Corbin there.

Sit back gentlemen we are in for a hell of a contest here I imagine.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really wish that Cena/Styles finish would've been executed better. It felt way too easy imo. No drama in the pin. Other than that, excellent match. I clearly want more though and we should hopefully get it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Third fantastic match on the supercard for Reigns. Despite being perceived as the lesser quality wrestler against Styles and Rollins, he held his own vs Styles and was imo the superior performer tonight. **** for that.

John Cena also looked great despite some bits of rust. Styles also (obviously) performed and the match succeeded in leaving me wanting more. Probably like ***1/2.

Nothing else really stood out. Divas match was the worst match of WWE supercards in 2016 and I really can't get myself into MitB matches.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I THINK I DIED AND WENT TO HEAVEN. Ambrose FINALLY wins the title after Rollins pins Reigns clean. I can't remember the last time I marked so hard.

Golden Truth vs. FaBreeze - *3/4
The Dudley Boyz vs. Lucha Dragons - **
New Day vs. Enzo & Cass vs. Vaudes vs. The Club - **1/2
Ziggler vs. Corbin - **1/4
Charlotte/Brooke vs. Becky/Natalya - *1/2
Sheamus vs. Crews - **1/4
Styles vs. Cena - ****
Money in the Bank - ****
Rusev vs. Titus - NA (switched to watch Curry do the job)
Rollins vs. Reigns - ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Corbin/Ziggler - *** 1/4
Sheamus/Crews - ** 3/4 (I can't really remember anything that happened early in the match though :lol)
Cena vs. Styles - **** (low end 4* because I was meh on the finish)
MITB Ladder Match - *** 1/2 (this fucking match gave me anxiety watching everyone climb slow as shit. A bit too long and I didn't feel any drama whatsoever to the finish)
Reigns vs. Rollins - **** (hesitant, need to rewatch because of that CAVS emotion)

Rest of the show was either skippable or I didn't watch (Rusev/Titus). Honestly though Cena/Styles was the only thing that had my full attention because of Game 7.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Fatal Four Way Tag - **1/2
Styles vs. Cena - ***3/4
MITB Ladder Match - ***1/2
Rollins/Reigns - ***

Rollins/Reigns was made a bit more interesting by Reigns' acting like a heel at certain points. Some cool near-falls as well added to an otherwise lackluster match made this a good solid match as a whole.

Styles/Cena was my MOTN. Only issue I have with the finish is that it makes it seem like Reigns took all of Cena's super kick-out powers. Reigns' took what Cena did and so much more, and ends up beating AJ. Besides that, no issue with that and it was bound to happen in some fashion like that. 

MITB was great. Not the best one, but it had some sick spots and a great winner. Tag Title match was solid. The rest of the card I didn't care about (was happy Rusev retained the title, but the match itself with Titus was forgettable).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, just bought tickets for Battleground. Tonight's finish convinced me enough to spend the dough. Holding out some hope that we get the Shield 3 way in the main event and another Cena/Styles bout, but half of that that just seems too good to be true. :lol

Either way, first PPV in DC in 5 years and the first PPV off of the new brand split, so I'm excited. Possibly getting Wyatt and Orton returning would just be a bonus.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Corey said:


> Corbin/Ziggler - *** 1/4
> Sheamus/Crews - ** 3/4 (I can't really remember anything that happened early in the match though :lol)
> Cena vs. Styles - **** (low end 4* because I was meh on the finish)
> MITB Ladder Match - *** 1/2 (this fucking match gave me anxiety watching everyone climb slow as shit. A bit too long and I didn't feel any drama whatsoever to the finish)
> ...


Yeah take Cena/Styles I down a good amount and slightly lower Reigns/Rollins (exceeded my expectations. **** is my base "great match" mark and I thought it fell short of that but it was a fun, solid contest for sure) and these echoes my feelings. Match wise nothing fantastic but passable in the ring this evening and the main thing for me at least is that we have a coherent story and some chance taking to fuel some discussion and interest for future Raws which has been missing for some time.

I really hope with WWE giving Ambrose the go ahead to enter their ace tier that we get more consistent Dean booking and most importantly far less campy performance. If Dean can embrace this new role and elevate to the best work of his career with a new seriousness ala imo. Honest Man Jericho or at least Shield/pre-leaving for movie level work: I'd be happy with that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, we need the 2014 taped shoulder Dean to return. Unfortunately I don't see this title reign lasting very long. Summerslam at the max but Dean in the main event of that show seems pretty shaky unless they go with the 3 way there (then idk what the hell happens with Lesnar). 

Interesting note, all 3 members of the Shield held the WWE Championship in the same day today. Pretty neat.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> Well, just bought tickets for Battleground. Tonight's finish convinced me enough to spend the dough. Holding out some hope that we get the Shield 3 way in the main event and another Cena/Styles bout, but half of that that just seems too good to be true. :lol
> 
> Either way, first PPV in DC in 5 years and the first PPV off of the new brand split, so I'm excited. Possibly getting Wyatt and Orton returning would just be a bonus.


I'll be there too brother! Haven't seen MitB yet, Finals were on and all that, but last night sounds like it was a great event and I can't pass up on the first DC PPV in 5 years!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> Yeah, we need the 2014 taped shoulder Dean to return. Unfortunately I don't see this title reign lasting very long. Summerslam at the max but Dean in the main event of that show seems pretty shaky unless they go with the 3 way there (then idk what the hell happens with Lesnar).
> 
> Interesting note, all 3 members of the Shield held the WWE Championship in the same day today. Pretty neat.


Shield triple-threat
Cena/Styles
Lesnar/Wyatt


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I've only watched the MITB bank and the Rollins/Reigns match. Both were really good with the MITB match having some fun spots (that Michinoku Driver on Owens onto the ladder GOT DAMN) and the Rollins/Reigns match having good psychology and storytelling with Rollins trying to win the title he never lost and Reigns trying to validate his title reign. That Seth catching Reigns mid-air for the Pedigree was the spot of the match. Holy shit was that cool lol 

I was surprised that Seth won clean but I was most surprised at Ambrose actually winning the MITB and cashing it in on the same night and actually winning the title. As an Ambrose fan that was awesome to see and it'll be interesting how this title picture with Ambrose/Reigns/Rollins will go. Shield Triple Threat match at Summerslam? Yes please :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Highlight of the PPV was the start of Rusev vs Titus.

Not fucking surprised.

LOL @ the ending. Company is in shambles.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Ricky Steamboat defeated Rick Rude in a 30 minute Iron Man match at Beach Blast 1992 from the Civic Center in Mobile, Alabama.

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Man. Posting that following this PPV doesn't seem fair. 

One of the best North American matches in history.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Vic Capri said:


> On this day, Ricky Steamboat defeated Rick Rude in a 30 minute Iron Man match at Beach Blast 1992 from the Civic Center in Mobile, Alabama.
> 
> - Vic


Rick Rude on his game was the shit. Hell, Rick Rude period was the shit. If Im a babyface: I know if I work Rude we are gonna have good heat going in to reflect well on me, I know Rude is a consumate pro so we should have a solid match and my injury risk is real low. Must've been a pleasure to see his name next to yours as a babyface looking at the night's card. 

Anyay, came in here to say Sami Zayn while he can sell snow to an eskimo those hands he just threw on Owens were second-run HBK level. oof.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

This Reigns/Rollins is a really weird match to me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> This Reigns/Rollins is a really weird match to me.


Is it because Rollins isn't wrestling like a heel at all? I think they have really good chemistry, but the character dynamics don't seem to be aligned the right way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corey said:


> Is it because Rollins isn't wrestling like a heel at all? I think they have really good chemistry, but the character dynamics don't seem to be aligned the right way.


That's probably mostt of it, yeah. Reigns started out dominating and it came off as way more malicious than most babyface stuff. The only time Rollins felt like an actual heel was when he rolled out of the ring, and when he had the sleeper. Hopefully they really are angling for a double turn.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE World Heavyweight Champion Dean Ambrose vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins (Triple Threat Match)*








@IT'S VADER TIME Summerslam has came early for us! :woo :woo :woo


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm loving these Reigns/Rollins matches. Weird dynamic with Rollins being a heel going into them and working the matches as a face and the opposite for Reigns, but it shows Reigns is a much, much better heel.

***3/4 for their Raw match.

Also *** for Owens/Zayn. Fun little brawl. I think those two might have a Last Man Standing match before being separated at the draft.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Man. Posting that following this PPV doesn't seem fair.
> 
> One of the best North American matches in history.


It makes me wonder if WWE ever watches their own Network that they spend so much time talking about.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I wasn't expecting to watch this show until the weekend but alas. Nothing really good that I'd recommend tbh and yet again the feeling of wins and losses or anything really mattering continues to plague shows. Ambrose is champion now. So what. He got his turn with the prop. Good for him. 4 was nothing really. New Day promos are one of the best things to come out of WWE this decade. Anderson/Gallows feel like nothing fall guys in WWE. I'll be somewhat surprised if Enzo and Cass are still together this time next year even though it's so fucking obvious they should be lifers as a team but you can tell that Vince is all about Cass and is just biding his time before pushing him on his own. The show went an extra half an hour and I'm pretty sure they paced the show like they did because of Game 7 which is odd in the Network era when you don't have to watch live. AJ/Cena I'm 90% sure was positioned to start exactly at HT and then the main event was made sure to start after the game. Divas match was pretty bad. I think Charlotte wrestles up or down to the quality of the match she's in. Dana looks very small next to Charlotte which is odd given WWE philosophy. Sheamus/Crews was just nothing. Nobody cared at all. Crews is odd. You'd think WWE would be all over him but he's really done nothing at all including his NXT run. For some reason they presented him as they would Kallisto working against Sheamus and even gave him the fluke roll up finish that gets nobody over. I caught the summary of the end of the pre-show matches and Goldust was happier than anyone else on this show to win his match. AJ/Cena I really liked for the first 15 or so minutes. Mike comparing it to a 2000's title match from Japan is so on the money that I'm annoyed I didn't make the comparison myself. Really loved this to begin with because they were telling an actual story that I was invested in and telling it really well. Then it turned into trading finishers and kicking out of them and I lost everything that I had invested in it. Would have been awesome if the AA was protected and Cena couldn't put AJ away with it but literally everyone bar Rusev kicks out of so it's just so what and you're a dumbass if you're shocked by it. Styles Clash kickout has to be a running gag backstage. Mike is bang on about the finish too. It's just why do I bother watching because they do it so often. And then when they don't like in the main event it just does more harm to the top guy losing clean because every other time they're protected so why wasn't Roman. Political hit that's why. MITB match was blah. That Cesaro springboard spot was insane. All these guys taking suplexes onto ladders and it meaning as much as an arm drag bump are dumbasses. Just say no because it could do so much damage for literally no reward. You're not getting a push because you were willing to take a suplex on a ladder along with 5 other guys in the same match. At least take something somewhat memorable like the Michinoku Driver spot. Which actually was just as dumb because FUCK and really the risk is nowhere near being worth the reward which is still like none because this isn't 2000 anymore and that spot isn't making you something you weren't before and nobody is talking about this time next month let alone next decade. Ambrose won and I guess it served a purpose but really who cares. The MITB gimmick is kinda dead at this stage too and it feels like a chore for WWE to do something with every year. Rusev/Titus was fun but basically an extended squash where they never even pretended to try to make Titus look like anything. Also they had Mega Dad Titus lose on Fathers Day with his kids sitting front row. Yay for the good guys. Rollins/Reigns was good but also blah because I didn't care. Another good Reigns match and performance though in which he had a better performance than the so called wrestler heads and shoulders above him. Spear-Pedigree counter looked lousy in real time but slowed down actually looked kinda cool in a way that never should have been possible. Reigns has his out that he had Rollins beaten but really Rollins should have set the finish up with a low blow or something while the ref was down/distracted because at the end of the day it was a clean pin and Reigns is gonna look all sorts of bitchy when he moans about it. Ambrose is champ but he won't be for long and even if he is who cares. He's fucking terrible and he'll be a comedy geek champion. Take a shot for everytime JBL said lunatic in the last 5 minutes of the show and see if you live to tell the tale. Shield 3 way feels like something that is way better on paper than in reality. The reality of it isn't all that special imo but it's a main event and it's something different I suppose. But really who compares about anything. Some guys won, some guys lost. Some matches were bad, some were good. The show happened and another very similar show will happen next month too.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Take a shot for everytime JBL said lunatic in the last 5 minutes of the show and see if you live to tell the tale.


:lmao Insert about another 12 repeated catchphrases that he says and take a shot for each of those and even a years worth of AA meetings wouldn't be able to save you from becoming a full blown alcoholic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did I hear the words "DEAN AMBROSE IS WWE CHAMPION"?????? :mark:

Also....



Corey said:


> *WWE World Heavyweight Champion Dean Ambrose vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins (Triple Threat Match)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


... of course they couldn't wait for SummerSlam instead.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

All those threads booking this as a big WM match.

Yup.........


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Did I hear the words "DEAN AMBROSE IS WWE CHAMPION"?????? :mark:
> 
> Also....
> 
> ... of course they couldn't wait for SummerSlam instead.





Brock said:


> All those threads booking this as a big WM match.
> 
> Yup.........


This makes me feel like they're getting separated after the draft, saying whoever the champ is might be by himself, ya know? Either way this really makes you wonder what they have planned for Summerslam, because I have no idea to this point unless Triple H gets involved in this match and... does something. 

Looks like they're also pulling the trigger on Charlotte vs. Sasha. This is great!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> This makes me feel like they're getting separated after the draft, saying whoever the champ is might be by himself, ya know? Either way this really makes you wonder what they have planned for Summerslam, because I have no idea to this point unless Triple H gets involved in this match and... does something.
> 
> Looks like they're also pulling the trigger on Charlotte vs. Sasha. This is great!


So this could also mean Lesnar going back into the title picture too?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> So this could also mean Lesnar going back into the title picture too?


Your guess is as good as mine.  Certainly possible though. Elimination Chamber at Summerslam? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Called that "lets immediately do it the night after" rematch of Reigns vs Rollins. Not like that was an accomplishment. We all can dictate where WWE will go on stuff like this. They really should keep some of these matches exclusive so they don't all eventually begin to get stale like every other program does. Which is why Cena vs Machine Gun being nothing was actually a good thing. Save it. (even if Anderson is practically a nobody at this rate)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> This makes me feel like they're getting separated after the draft, saying whoever the champ is might be by himself, ya know? Either way this really makes you wonder what they have planned for Summerslam, because I have no idea to this point unless Triple H gets involved in this match and... does something.
> 
> Looks like they're also pulling the trigger on Charlotte vs. Sasha. This is great!


There have been programs between people separated by drafts before, dude. You find a good reason, you have a good excuse.

And, unless they're bringing in Bayley, CHARLOTTE VS SASHA SHOULD ALSO BE SAVED FOR SUMMERSLAM. Not fucking Battleground or whatever. This is giving me deja vu of that year when they almost blew their load too early and put nearly the entire planned SS card on Battleground, and SS wound up being a lot of rematches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fuck at this point I hope they blow their entire wad at Battleground. Bring in Brock. Bring in CM Punk. I've got fucking tickets, my girlfriend just bought them for my Bday, so I'm stoked!

Haven't been to a WWE PPV since Eddie died. This should be a real treat.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wish I could carry mine to any WWE PPV. Tis what I get for living in a broke ass Euro country 

But hey, at least I have my own wads to satisfy her 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> There have been programs between people separated by drafts before, dude. You find a good reason, you have a good excuse.
> 
> And, unless they're bringing in Bayley, CHARLOTTE VS SASHA SHOULD ALSO BE SAVED FOR SUMMERSLAM. Not fucking Battleground or whatever. This is giving me deja vu of that year when they almost blew their load too early and put nearly the entire planned SS card on Battleground, and SS wound up being a lot of rematches.


That was only me trying to justify why they'd run the triple threat match already. I don't really care as much as others for the long term plan or what they do after the draft, because I certainly want them to go all out at Battleground. Give me the 3 way, give me Charlotte/Sasha, give me the Owens/Zayn blowoff, give me everything they got!

What year are you referring to? Most of the Battleground cards have been pretty average and not really translated to Summerslam directly.



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Fuck at this point I hope they blow their entire wad at Battleground. Bring in Brock. Bring in CM Punk. I've got fucking tickets, my girlfriend just bought them for my Bday, so I'm stoked!
> 
> Haven't been to a WWE PPV since Eddie died. This should be a real treat.


What was the last PPV you went to?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I see another filler match making it to Battleground for the Women, but I guess Charlotte vs Sasha could have a dirty finish to stretch out to the obvious championship win for Sasha at the "bigger" event. Interesting to note that this is going to be the first championship match between em where the alignments are switched. Good to know to see if they can change it up from their prior great series of matches on NXT. Just a shame once this is over, the division has absolutely no depth that idk where Sasha will go following. If only they signed names who could work.

Then there's guaranteed to be another Cena vs Styles/The Club match for the card. So it's looking to possibly be an unusually stacked card w/SummerSlam right around the corner. While this is all speculation from one RAW, other than the confirmed main event, I've also felt this is a good example as to why WWE changing the format to their PPVs would help these days. B PPVs back at two hours, and the big traditions that have been around for years at the full three hours, or longer. It won't happen, but I've kicked this idea around in my head for a year and a half now. This would actually pad the idea of stretching out feuds longer than they should go on, as WWE currently is fixated w/.

Now, I should try and finish Unforgiven 04 so I can get back to watching the weekly TV. PPV is bad, so it's not making a good argument to put it on atm. A La Resistance match & a 24 minute Triple H match are all that remain. *sigh* The RAWs building up to this were so damn fun, too. Benoit is keeping up his MVP status on the year, though. I miss that guy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> That was only me trying to justify why they'd run the triple threat match already. I don't really care as much as others for the long term plan or what they do after the draft, because I certainly want them to go all out at Battleground. Give me the 3 way, give me Charlotte/Sasha, give me the Owens/Zayn blowoff, give me everything they got!
> 
> *What year are you referring to? Most of the Battleground cards have been pretty average and not really translated to Summerslam directly.
> *
> ...


The show I was referring too was the 2014 one, after research. Jericho and Wyatt, AJ Lee and Paige, Ambrose and Rollins (which ended up not really happening... but was the reason 99% of people watched the show), Swagger and Rusev - all would wind up on SS a month later as rematches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched a handful of random other things instead of the remainder of the PPV. Proper decision. Raven vs Benoit 2/12/98, Callihan vs Havoc Cage of Death, Kobashi vs Shiozaki 1/23/05, and:

Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble - _WWE: Velocity 5/1/04_

Well I LOVED this.

Noble was often described as "Benoit Jr" backstage, as many have gone on to state. I can't think of a better match during his entire WWE tenure that best describes that personality trait to be true than this match.Statements of him working like a pitbull were on full display. He was on Mysterio like white on rice, like a fly on shit, like a shark who smelled blood in the water. We're talking every cliche in the book level systematic assault. T'was glorious.Even the idea of quelling any attempt at a momentum change type formatting from Noble. Opposed to a long limb assault and basic babyface comeback, Mysterio found himself dead to rights a number of times before eeking out the victory. That kind of working from below, and that "below" is about 3 feet deeper than usual. Fairly one of a kind Mysterio type match, too. Instead of it being a common spectacle, Rey kept trying a lot to beat Noble at his own game.They trade headlocks for the first sequence, Rey not wanting to concede in any of the ground warfare vs the more commonly preferred in the area opponent. It backfired on Rey eventually to where Noble would totally engulf him for the bulk of this, destroying his arm. But the mentality to see Rey want to focus in on a completely different side to winning matches was such a neat, honestly fascinating concept. There's something about this human chess logic of Noble tearing up Rey's arm for a lot of this, even though the idea that targeting the legs would be more "logical" to stop any signature offense in its tracks. This is a good example of what Malenko vs Mysterio from GAB tried to be. Instead of sitting on a limb for x amount of minutes w/no addition towards the finish, all of Noble's hard fought efforts stuck out from start to finish. I can go out and simply say "b/c Noble is better at working on top, dictating a match" than Malenko, but I like to extend beyond simple associations. Mysterio playing ball in selling at all the proper times did Noble a ton of favors. Couple in the strategic counters at all the most surprising times (seriously did NOT expect that sunset flip countered into a Northern Lights near fall. INCREDIBLE.) All variables of a honest to goodness struggle to win an competitive wrestling match was here in spades. Is Noble one of the more forgotten geniuses at body control? b/c his movements during a few sequences were out of this world in the match. The body slam, holding onto the wristlock in one motion, like it's not even something that remotely takes an ounce of effort. Again things you can kind of overuse when talking about pro graps, but when you see it like how it was done here, it really sends the message home. Rey was awesome here, and Noble was on a completely different level. If some haven't seen his terrific ROH tenure to kind of "sell you" on what he's capable of as a whole, this is the ideal match to do so. The kind of cruiserweight match you wished you were spoiled enough to get all the time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> That was only me trying to justify why they'd run the triple threat match already. I don't really care as much as others for the long term plan or what they do after the draft, because I certainly want them to go all out at Battleground. Give me the 3 way, give me Charlotte/Sasha, give me the Owens/Zayn blowoff, give me everything they got!
> 
> What year are you referring to? Most of the Battleground cards have been pretty average and not really translated to Summerslam directly.
> 
> ...


No Way Out 2005. The worst part? I was invited to go to No Way Out 2006 the following year, chose not to because I'm a fucking idiot, and ended up missing seeing Taker/Angle live while my 2 best friends got to see it. 

Yea, fuck me right?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I see another filler match making it to Battleground for the Women, but I guess Charlotte vs Sasha could have a dirty finish to stretch out to the obvious championship win for Sasha at the "bigger" event. Interesting to note that this is going to be the first championship match between em where the alignments are switched. Good to know to see if they can change it up from their prior great series of matches on NXT. *Just a shame once this is over, the division has absolutely no depth that idk where Sasha will go following.* If only they signed names who could work.
> 
> Then there's guaranteed to be another Cena vs Styles/The Club match for the card. So it's looking to possibly be an unusually stacked card w/SummerSlam right around the corner. While this is all speculation from one RAW, other than the confirmed main event, I've also felt this is a good example as to why WWE changing the format to their PPVs would help these days. B PPVs back at two hours, and the big traditions that have been around for years at the full three hours, or longer. It won't happen, but I've kicked this idea around in my head for a year and a half now. This would actually pad the idea of stretching out feuds longer than they should go on, as WWE currently is fixated w/.
> 
> Now, I should try and finish Unforgiven 04 so I can get back to watching the weekly TV. PPV is bad, so it's not making a good argument to put it on atm. A La Resistance match & a 24 minute Triple H match are all that remain. *sigh* The RAWs building up to this were so damn fun, too. Benoit is keeping up his MVP status on the year, though. I miss that guy.


Becky and/or Dana programs, then Bayley leading to WM next year, I guess.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> No Way Out 2005. The worst part? I was invited to go to No Way Out 2006 the following year, chose not to because I'm a fucking idiot, and ended up missing seeing Taker/Angle live while my 2 best friends got to see it.
> 
> Yea, fuck me right?


Well, at least you can say you saw a show headlined by the best Fozzy song ever made. :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Reigns got Wellness'd today. He'll be back in time for Battleground (just), but you have to wonder how this will change their direction. They knew of his failure before the title change, fwiw.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rollins vs. Zayn on Smackdown tomorrow night. :sodone


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> Well, at least you can say you saw a show headlined by the best Fozzy song ever made. :lol


Unfortunately I can't even say that. I spent the majority of that show puking my guts out in the Mellon Arena bathroom. My friends and I had the bright idea to wear Camelbaks filled with a mix of Everclear (180 proof grain alcohol), Fruit Punch Gatorade, and Red Bull. I punished mine before the opening match was even finished, and thus I don't remember much from that night at all, and I didn't even remember Fozzy played until you just told me :lmao

I was 17 and stupid, what can I say.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Y'all better get out there and watch Smackdown for Zayn vs. Rollins. Cesaro vs. ADR was good too. 

ADR/Cesaro - ***1/4
Zayn/Rollins - ***3/4 (and they only had 10-12 minutes)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A match I care to see today and it only goes 12 minutes? That's a great thing. Really ideal duration to make something good happen, over dragging a match out to be long to enforce how "good" they want to claim it is. (*cough New Japan cough*) Given their history of matches too, they work well in that window.

At least I'm finally getting the match I wanted p. quickly. Shades of Night of the Butcher II going on. (I was so excited to see the match happen for the first time. Those memories.) If only this was actually a feud atm. Perhaps later.

Like the sound of Cesaro vs Del Rio a lot, too.



Rah said:


> Reigns got Wellness'd today. He'll be back in time for Battleground (just), but you have to wonder how this will change their direction. They knew of his failure before the title change, fwiw.


Shame. WWE plays fast and loose on who it wants to be vindictive towards for their faults, but I can see this having a mild effect for a spell. Already _kind of_ has given the events of the past two shows. Ambrose might make it to SummerSlam as champion, after all.

----------

Revision: Cena vs Orton from SummerSlam 2007 is very, very good. Way better than I ever remembered. Glad I'm on board w/this now. Feels locked it is their best match vs each other, probably even over NWO 08. Might as well have happened during Cena's awesome 07 reign & the remnants of Orton's prime.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Cody. Just no. Take it back please. Now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another irrational, befuddling Cal thought here, it seems. :cal2

It's too early for me to be clever I guess, so just imagine I put a zinger to associate *Goodfellas* in this post.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well clearly it was too early for you to be clever when you formed that opinion for that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But how does it rank on the > than Undertaker vs Austin Backlash 2002 scale?

The true clever test.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If people honestly think that match is better than Taker/Austin from BL 02 then they need serious mental help.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know you're kind of the only person who actually likes the Backlash match. We give you banter on it all the time.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Taker vs Lesnar vs Big Show from a random episode of SD 2003 is really good, like some chaos they fit into the space of 10-15 minutes. Taker vs Angle from the next week is far superior but this was a lot of fun, don't sleep on it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> A match I care to see today and it only goes 12 minutes? That's a great thing. Really ideal duration to make something good happen, over dragging a match out to be long to enforce how "good" they want to claim it is. (*cough New Japan cough*) Given their history of matches too, they work well in that window.
> 
> At least I'm finally getting the match I wanted p. quickly. Shades of Night of the Butcher II going on. (I was so excited to see the match happen for the first time. Those memories.) If only this was actually a feud atm. Perhaps later.
> 
> Like the sound of Cesaro vs Del Rio a lot, too.


I got pretty excited when it was 9:36pm and Rollins entrance hit. I was thinking "wow, they're really going to get 15-20 minutes in the SD main event". Still fit a lot in and got a really good match out of the 12 minutes, though. 

In typical WWE fashion, I'd expect Rollins vs. Zayn to have a rematch on Raw that eventually breaks down into a tag team main event of Rollins/Owens vs. Ambrose/Zayn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll have a good reason to jump on Smackdown quicker than usual tonight to check it out. Curious to see what they make out of nothing in the mold of an exhibition main event on the B show. There's no doubt they'll probably rack up a decent number of matches vs each other being employed by WWE. Gonna be interesting that it's one of those "popular indie worker pairings" that didn't really have many matches vs each other pre WWE. I count only three singles matches, and then a few tags in ROH.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, King Of The Ring 2002 took place from the Nationwide Arena in Columbus, Ohio.

- Vic


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> I'll have a good reason to jump on Smackdown quicker than usual tonight to check it out. Curious to see what they make out of nothing in the mold of an exhibition main event on the B show. There's no doubt they'll probably rack up a decent number of matches vs each other being employed by WWE. Gonna be interesting that it's one of those "popular indie worker pairings" that didn't really have many matches vs each other pre WWE. I count only three singles matches, and then a few tags in ROH.


The cool thing about any Rollins match in the WWE is that, even if he faces someone he wrestled during his days in ROH, it's going to be a completely different match than what happened previously because more so than any other wrestler who is in the WWE now who previously worked the indy's, Rollins took his game to a completely different level once he joined WWE. I mean, it's almost shocking when compare the wresrler he was in 2006-2009 to the one he's been from 2012-2016.

Don't get me wrong, of course Black was more than capable back in ROH. His matches with Danielson and Steen are amongst my favorite of that time period. Especially the Danielson matches, those hold up marvelously on rewatch. The New Horizons match is still Rollins best outing ever IMO.

But, I just can't help but marvel at how much BETTER he became, all around, these last few years he's worked in the WWE.

You might disagree, because I know the love you have for Generico, but I feel the same way about Zayn/Generico, though to a much lesser extent. I just think he's been even better as Sami Zayn than he was as Generico, but that might just be me. Seeing his face just takes the fire and passion he always displayed and boosts it up a notch, and of course helps with selling and emoting, too.

I still wish Rollins would tone down the flashy stuff when he's working heel, save it for his eventual baby face run and all that (the same goes for Owens, frankly) but other than that I love watching his work. After Zayn/Nakamura/Cesaro, he's probably the next best guy WWE has. Doing flashy stuff is fine when your a heel and facing a Danielson or Zayn, guys the fans will ALWAYS be behind, not so much when he's facing Cena or Reigns or another baby face who doesn't have that universal support. 

That's just my feelings though, I just prefer watching matches where the face is cheered and the heel is boo'd and there is no confusion or disconnect. 

Either way, I'm turning SD! on right now and eagerly anticipating the first Zayn/Rollins singles match I've personally ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zayn getting to add in the facial reactions to go along w/his body language selling is an advantage that WWE has opened itself up to. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say there's been too much of a change from his indies to now as far as growing more from an already defined BITW status to me. Same kind of follows suit w/Rollins, except for both I don't deny that WWE has given them new life in the promo department. Now this is where Black to Rollins sees a MASSIVE change. Generico had presence always, and it transferred over well to Zayn w/o the mask and easy to root for persona, confidence. But my gosh, does Rollins now have presence. A natural command of things that while always top notch, he didn't exactly have even while as champion in ROH. Charisma and appeal were there, sure. I was hooked to his work from the very start, but I think most will understand what I'm talking about here. He's much more complete today in that regard.

When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done. One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. *Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done.* One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.


What?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> If people honestly think that match is better than Taker/Austin from BL 02 then they need serious mental help.


There are maybe 11 matches in wrestling history this is true about.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Zayn getting to add in the facial reactions to go along w/his body language selling is an advantage that WWE has opened itself up to. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say there's been too much of a change from his indies to now as far as growing more from an already defined BITW status to me. Same kind of follows suit w/Rollins, except for both I don't deny that WWE has given them new life in the promo department. Now this is where Black to Rollins sees a MASSIVE change. Generico had presence always, and it transferred over well to Zayn w/o the mask and easy to root for persona, confidence. But my gosh, does Rollins now have presence. A natural command of things that while always top notch, he didn't exactly have even while as champion in ROH. Charisma and appeal were there, sure. I was hooked to his work from the very start, but I think most will understand what I'm talking about here. He's much more complete today in that regard.
> 
> When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done. One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.





funnyfaces1 said:


> What?



Cody is exactly right and I've felt this way for a while, although I don't blame the fans as much as I blame WWE for allowing it to happen.

Basically, fans these days are so goddamn ADD and on the whole have VERY unrefined tastes in wrestling. The wrestlers feel like they HAVE to wrestle at a breakneck pace, do a bunch of dives or flashy moves, etc or the fans will just sit there twiddling their thumbs acting like this headlock is the most uninteresting thing they've ever seen.

It's the same way in NXT, with the supposed "Smark" fans who are really just obnoxious shit heads who try and get themselves over at the expense of the match. Go watch Cesaro/Regal from NXT. It sounds like a goddamn library in the Full Sail Arena for the majority of the match, except for a few lame as shit "THIS IS WRESTLING" chants. Cesaro and Regal worked in that traditional grappling/European/hard hitting style that Regal, Finlay, and Benoit worked whenever they faced one another in the 90's and early 00's. Outside of Uncensored 96', those matches all got really solid reactions, in the case of Judgement Day 06' they had the fans on their feet going crazy. Yet when Cesaro and Regal worked that slower, more methodical, grappling style the fans were flat out silent.

It's not just the style of match, it happens during prolonged heel heat segments a lot of times too unless it's a Brock Lesnar match. The majority of fans today just flat out don't understand or appreciate slower, methodical matches. They don't appreciate a heel working a body part on a baby face for 5+ minutes at a time with various holds and strikes. So when wrestlers try and do that, the fans get silent, and the wrestlers generally have to call an audible and crank the pace up to meth head levels to get the fans back into the match.

In Seth Rollins or Kevin Owens case, they have to forgo traditional heel psychology, i.e. never doing crowd pleasing, flashy baby face like moves, because otherwise they won't get over and won't get the spot on the card they deserve.

As sad as it is to say, a heel like Finlay wouldn't work in todays WWE. Fans would crap all over his work and force the Booker's to not use him in prominent matches.

The reason I blame WWE for this is simple: it's WWE's responsibility to educate the fans and prevent things from getting like this. There is a famous story where Vince called a meeting back in 2003 with all of the talent for both Raw/Smackdown and told the guys that the style of wrestling being presented needed to change, that the fans needed to be reeducated to what good wrestling is. The reason for this was that during the AE guys stopped having normal wrestling matches for the most part. Everything was more or less a brawl, multiple matches on every card would end up with the guys brawling through the crowds, using copious amounts of weapons, and just doing very little wrestling in general. Especially in the main events. Vince told the talents it would take tme, but that they needed to reeducate the fans to what wrestling is supposed to be. Using more holds, not using weapons except in special occassions, getting real heat and heels working body parts instead of just back and forth brawling. All that. 

Guess what? It worked. The wrestling from late 2002-2007 was the best wrestling WWE has ever presented, and fans really got into it obviously.

That's what WWE should be doing now. Start protecting finishers better. Ban suicide dives and only allow 2-3 guys to do them, and only in big matches. Use a lot more holds. Heels need to cheat to get reactions, not use flashy baby face moves. Ban the spamming of false finishes unless it's a big time match, a PPV main event, world title match, feud blowoff, or WM match. Start matches with real baby face shine and transition into real heat segments that are kicked off with the heel using an underhanded tactic to gain the advantage,

Just basic fundamental stuff. The wrestlers might have to endure a few matches that are great but get no reaction, but that's just the price they need to pay to get back to wrestling smart. It'll help prevent injuries, it'll make the matches 1000x better, and it'll get fans booing/loathing heels and cheering/loving baby faces again.

I can't blame the wrestlers for doing what they are doing. They are just trying to get over and be successful and get noticed. They want their match to get the best reaction, and this is the only way to do it. Lord knows they can't count on good booking, promos cut straight from the heart, and being able to control the character they present to the fans to get over. Doing a bunch of stunts and flashy high spots is basically all guys like Luke Harper, Owens, etc have to get over and be successful. It sucks but it's the truth.

I don't want to speak for @Obfuscation , he might have been saying something completely different this is just how I see the issues in today's style of wrestling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched Zayn/Rollins. Thought it was a lot of fun and Zayn almost getting him with the rollup killed me. You blink and you miss the finish though. I had to rewind it to make sure I didn't miss something else happening, but I didn't. It was just over. Short & fun sprint. *** 1/4

Cesaro/Del Rio was good too. Cesaro's selling is always top notch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> If people honestly think that match is better than Taker/Austin from BL 02 then they need serious mental help.


This coming from someone with "Craziness. Insanity. Stupidity." as their slogan 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> This coming from someone with "Craziness. Insanity. Stupidity." as their slogan 8*D


:cal2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> I don't want to speak for @Obfuscation , he might have been saying something completely different this is just how I see the issues in today's style of wrestling.


You hit a lot of points I zero in on. WWE & garnering for a "pop" all co-mingles in the same pool that doesn't do a lot of guys any favors today, largely b/c that's how the company promotes things. You won't get a compelling angle, you'll just get matches involving people and hope they go over well. Sure I'm excited for Zayn vs Rollins on SD, and in this first time case, it works, but imagine if this was put on PPV w/no build and just to have someone like me pop for it, you know? There's got to be more there to truly care. Novelty can only work so far. Zayn vs Nakamura is the goldmine of dream match exception, and that'll probably be their only match for a long time. So that applied. Other things, heck even like Cena vs Styles b/c their angle is trash. All it is is saying "you're getting John Cena vs AJ Styles matches now. Be happy." Fans naturally go w/it b/c they don't care. Luke Harper doing a tope in what feels like every match. Ehhhhhh. That shouldn't be happening.

You brought up the 2002 - 2007 (I usually associate it w/2008 b/c that's when the company went PG, but the pre Benoit scenario makes sense) timeframe and that reminds me of something Raven said when it comes to knowing something is working as a worthwhile investment. I'm watching various stuff from those years lately and to notice the way crowds react are very, very interesting compared to today. We already know those buzzword themed chants aren't around. But there's something else, there's just the idea of heavy stories & heavy themes that seem so much more prominent on competence and not "expect workrate". The way Raven put it is he said how could you know the fans give a damn about your match if all they're chanting are names back and forth near the end of a match? "Lets go Cena/Lets go Styles" just to keep that as a current basis. Instead of, from his POV, fans being so emotionally involved to not give a damn to chant names, but to simply be sucked into an affair and hang on every ebb and flow. That really sticks out to me b/c noticing matches involving popular names in 2007 like Cena or Batista or Mysterio, these fans are rather molten by the finishing stretches. Like holy crap some of these audiences LOVED Batista, it was nuts. They might have gotten their pro chants early in the match, you know feel the connection, crowd wanting to lend their support, etc, etc. Then by the fever pitch, fans knowing this is where it could end at any moment, you weren't hearing chants. You were hearing big booming reactions. Somewhere along the way that changed. It stopped being about the product pulling you in, to now being elsewhere. Match is secondary as long as Reigns gets massive heat, b/c maybe that'll eventually end his push. That type of thinking. Dueling chants b/c people just want to tell the other one that "their guy" lost. "THEY'RE JUST HAVING FUN, MAGGLE". WWE can put over geeky audiences more than lower card guys sometimes. Matches needing more time, guys needing something b/c they "deserve" it. Just a bunch of wacky weird fixations that seem far and away from everything BUT the emotional pull of actually caring about a story behind a match. It strikes me that way far too often and why I'm normally on the outside looking in w/most things WWE tends to produce these days. Plenty of talent there, plenty of favorites of mine signed. Ok, they got me half way. Now what are you going to to do to engage me further. That's what I'm always asking and not seeing enough of.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> You hit a lot of points I zero in on. WWE & garnering for a "pop" all co-mingles in the same pool that doesn't do a lot of guys any favors today, largely b/c that's how the company promotes things. You won't get a compelling angle, you'll just get matches involving people and hope they go over well. Sure I'm excited for Zayn vs Rollins on SD, and in this first time case, it works, but imagine if this was put on PPV w/no build and just to have someone like me pop for it, you know? There's got to be more there to truly care. Novelty can only work so far. Zayn vs Nakamura is the goldmine of dream match exception, and that'll probably be their only match for a long time. So that applied. Other things, heck even like Cena vs Styles b/c their angle is trash. All it is is saying "you're getting John Cena vs AJ Styles matches now. Be happy." Fans naturally go w/it b/c they don't care. Luke Harper doing a tope in what feels like every match. Ehhhhhh. That shouldn't be happening.
> 
> You brought up the 2002 - 2007 (I usually associate it w/2008 b/c that's when the company went PG, but the pre Benoit scenario makes sense) timeframe and that reminds me of something Raven said when it comes to knowing something is working as a worthwhile investment. I'm watching various stuff from those years lately and to notice the way crowds react are very, very interesting compared to today. We already know those buzzword themed chants aren't around. But there's something else, there's just the idea of heavy stories & heavy themes that seem so much more prominent on competence and not "expect workrate". The way Raven put it is he said how could you know the fans give a damn about your match if all they're chanting are names back and forth near the end of a match? "Lets go Cena/Lets go Styles" just to keep that as a current basis. Instead of, from his POV, fans being so emotionally involved to not give a damn to chant names, but to simply be sucked into an affair and hang on every ebb and flow. That really sticks out to me b/c noticing matches involving popular names in 2007 like Cena or Batista or Mysterio, these fans are rather molten by the finishing stretches. Like holy crap some of these audiences LOVED Batista, it was nuts. They might have gotten their pro chants early in the match, you know feel the connection, crowd wanting to lend their support, etc, etc. Then by the fever pitch, fans knowing this is where it could end at any moment, you weren't hearing chants. You were hearing big booming reactions. Somewhere along the way that changed. It stopped being about the product pulling you in, to now being elsewhere. Match is secondary as long as Reigns gets massive heat, b/c maybe that'll eventually end his push. That type of thinking. Dueling chants b/c people just want to tell the other one that "their guy" lost. "THEY'RE JUST HAVING FUN, MAGGLE". WWE can put over geeky audiences more than lower card guys sometimes. Matches needing more time, guys needing something b/c they "deserve" it. Just a bunch of wacky weird fixations that seem far and away from everything BUT the emotional pull of actually caring about a story behind a match. It strikes me that way far too often and why I'm normally on the outside looking in w/most things WWE tends to produce these days. Plenty of talent there, plenty of favorites of mine signed. Ok, they got me half way. Now what are you going to to do to engage me further. That's what I'm always asking and not seeing enough of.



:clap

I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the change in how crowds react to matches. I miss the days when fans just cheered or boo'd, only chanting a baby faces name on a come back, or on really special occasions getting the "Holy shit!" chant. It makes for SUCH a better viewing experience, seeing crowds pop like crazy for a big counter, or boo the shit out out of a heel. Nowadays we just get endless chants, I fucking hate it why would you pay all this money and just go chant for 3 hours? It's absurd.

I'm so happy you mentioned Harper and the tope's. You were the one who introduced me to Brodie Lee WAYYYY back in the day when he first was on NXT. You had him in your avatar and sent me a bunch of stuff to check out. I became a fan, and then when all the Shield/Wyatts stuff happened I became a REAL big fan of his. He's the best big man in the business right now, hands down. Those dives should be special, I still remember the first time he did it and the crowd went ape. But then he started doing it every match and now it's just another cheap pop spot. I don't even blame Harper for this though. What is he supposed to do? He isn't given any real mic time, or any vignettes or segments to help fans connect. He isn't booked properly, hell his booking flat out sucks. How else is he supposed to get over other than doing eye popping moves? I got really really upset watching the ladder match he had with Ziggler at TLC a few years ago. He and Dolph were being fucking morons, Harper almost broke his arm multiple times and they were just being so reckless and stupid it stopped being fun to watch and just made me legitimately fearful they were gonna seriously hurt themselves. And for what? Who even remembers that match? Nobody talks about it, it meant nothing then and means even less now. 

Oh, and don't even get me started on matches just being booked for the sake of booking them without any real thought or creative effort being applied. You are SO right about Zayn/Nakamura being the pinnacle, the ideal way those kind of matches can work. However, that match worked because: 1.) It was Nakamura's debut as a baby face, no matter what fans were gonna go ape for him, 2.) It was Zayn's final NXT match, most people knew it, and as a result that got some extra juice from the fans, and 3.) Because it's, quite literally, the 2 very best wrestlers in the entire world (now that Bryan is retired) facing off with no BS overbooking/scripting of the match, nothing being pre planned at all in fact. You probably know this, but Zayn came out and said he and Nakamura didn't discuss one single thing before going out, they had nothing planned other than Zayn was losing to the Bomaye, and just went out and WRESTLED. That's why it was so refreshing, almost all the great, truly special stuff we get these days occurs when scripts/plans are thrown out and guys just do what they have been trained to do: wrestle.

Cena vs Styles first singles match is, if not a WM main event, AT LEAST a main event of a major PPV. I mean, these are the 2 top baby faces of the 2000-2010 decade essentially, in a match fans never thought they'd get to see. If it's not for the World Title, it at least deserves to be treated as a true main event program, going on last after weeks and weeks of building a good feud. Yet, it gets thrown out there in the mid card of MitB, with Styles booked as unnaturally as possible (I just don't want to see him as a heel right now, makes zero sense when he was getting such strong baby face reactions.)

They do this all the time, and they do it much worse than Cena/Styles. We will get the first ever Zayn/Rollins match just given away with zero buildup on SD! Same with the first Styles/Owens match. Why does WWE feel like giving fans two good wrestlers 15-20 minutes to wrestle on free tv is the way to give fans a good show? I for one would MUCH prefer they just kept things short and sweet for the vast majority of TV matches. Give the main event 15-20 minutes including the commercial break, but the rest of the matches should be no more than 5-10 minutes, pitting the top guys against lower card guys. Then use the guest commentary, interference, or whatever to advance the story's and feuds. Also they shouldn't have Zayn and Rollins and all the top guys wrestling every week. I'm of the opinion guys shouldn't wrestle on TV more than 3 times a month, once in a short squash/sprint and then maybe again in a big tag or something on Raw/SD!, and then once at the monthly PPV. Hell that might even be TOO much for the real main event level talents. Having them wrestle every single week, in competitive matches against guys at the same level they are, just diminishes their importance. Then for the 2 weeks they aren't wrestling, one week can be a promo/vignette, the other week just keep them off TV. No need to see them every single week, it keeps them special.

I mean, would you rather watch: Option 1-Zayn/Rollins first singles match with zero buildup, for 15 minutes, someone wins and someone loses. OR, Option-2 would you rather watch Zayn wrestle an 7-8 minute match against ADR/Big Show, Rollins in a 5-7 minute match against Titus/Neville/Swagger, with Rollins on guest commentary SHREDDING Zayn before he interferes and screws him, and Zayn subsequently returning the favor and coming out from the crowd to cost Rollins his match? Then they wrestle their first singles match, 10-15 minutes max, on PPV. 

I just wish WWE realized they have guys capable of being big time stars and that they should be treated as such. Can you imagine Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Brock, etc being booked like this? It's the equivalent of WWE starting the 2002 Brock/Taker feud by having them wrestle for 20 minutes on free TV before Unforgiven 2002. Heyman would have NEVER allowed something like that to happen, and for good reason.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you guys haven't read yet, they're expanding the PPV schedule once the brand split happens and bringing back some old names. Here's the new schedule (which has been confirmed by multiple sources now)

** WWE SummerSlam*, August 21st in Brooklyn (both brands)
** WWE Backlash*, September 11th in Richmond (SmackDown event/ WWE Network exclusive)
** WWE Clash of the Champions*, September 25th in Indianapolis (RAW event)
** WWE No Mercy*, October 9th in Sacramento (SmackDown event)
** WWE Hell In a Cell*, October 30th in Boston (RAW event)
** WWE Survivor Series*, November 20th in Toronto (both brands)
** WWE TLC*, December 4th in Dallas (SmackDown event)
** WWE Roadblock*, December 18th in Pittsburgh (RAW event)

Backlash in Richmond. So enticing to make it a trio of PPVs for me on the year. :lol Have to see what the Smackdown roster is first. Hopefully Survivor Series feels more special now. Dallas getting another PPV is a joke and so is doing ANOTHER Roadblock in the same year.

Royal Rumble will be at the Staples Center in L.A. as well.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I still get all warm and fuzzy inside seeing Survivor Series in Toronto. I can't wait for a ticket release date.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE taped the first round of the Cruiserweight Classic a couple nights ago. No one really knows what order they're gonna be aired in, but here's the order they taped them in. They'll air weekly starting on July 13th. I believe the semi finals and finals will be live. Haven't seen an actual bracket yet either.

* Gran Metalik (Mascara Dorada) vs. Alejandro Saez
* Ho Ho Lun vs. Ariya Daivari
* Clement Petiot vs. Cedric Alexander
* The Brian Kendrick vs. Raul Mendoza

* Tajiri vs. Damian Slater
* TJ Perkins vs. Da Mack
* Lince Dorado vs. Mustafa Ali
* Akira Tozawa vs. Kenneth Johnson

* Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Tyson Dux
* Drew Gulak vs. Harv Shira
* Tony Nese vs. Anthony Bennett
* Kota Ibushi vs. Sean Maluta

* Rich Swann vs. Jason Lee
* Noam Dar vs. Gurv Shira
* Jack Gallagher vs. Fabian Aichner
* Johnny Gargano vs. Tomasso Ciampa


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corey said:


> If you guys haven't read yet, they're expanding the PPV schedule once the brand split happens and bringing back some old names. Here's the new schedule (which has been confirmed by multiple sources now)
> 
> ** WWE SummerSlam*, August 21st in Brooklyn (both brands)
> ** WWE Backlash*, September 11th in Richmond (SmackDown event/ WWE Network exclusive)
> ...


That is ludicrous. 8 PPVs in four months. What the hell is next year going to look like?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Those were some great posts about how WWE has changed their in ring style. 

I think the best illustration would be to go and watch Roadblock from earlier in the year. Watch what Triple H does in the ring and then watch what everyone else on the card does. I know there are some differences of opinion on how good he was or is but it's startling when you compare him to everyone else going today. His matches with Ziggler and Ambrose illustrate what wrestling could be like today instead of what we get today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FITZ said:


> Those were some great posts about how WWE has changed their in ring style.
> 
> I think the best illustration would be to go and watch Roadblock from earlier in the year. Watch what Triple H does in the ring and then watch what everyone else on the card does. I know there are some differences of opinion on how good he was or is but it's startling when you compare him to everyone else going today. His matches with Ziggler and Ambrose illustrate what wrestling could be like today instead of what we get today.


Man I'm so glad you mentioned that Triple H/Ambrose match. A lot of people didn't like it, and that's fine everyone has their own tastes, likes and dislikes. To me though, that match was a breath of fresh air, which is something I NEVER thought I'd ever say about a Triple H match, especially a Triple H match in 2016.

Hunter forced Ambrose to just fucking wrestle. No bullshit, no "Lunatic Cringe", no dumbass nonsensical high spots, just a good, solid, perfectly paced, classically structured, professional wrestling match. 

It was by no means an all time classic, ****1/2+ type match. It was just a really really good main event world title match, the type and style of match we used to get multiple times a month in years past. It stood out to me because we just don't see that type of match on a regular basis anymore. We might get a handful, AT MOST, during an entire year. It was like one of those 1993-1995 Bret Hart title defenses against Davey Boy, or Owen, or Hennig, or Waltman. It wasn't as good as those Bret Hart title defenses or anything, but it had the same feel, the same sort of vibe, as those wonderful matches.

That's what I love to see, and I hope maybe the brand split might bring some of that back. I know it'll never happen but, man I could totally see Cesaro being that guy, that no nonsense World Champion who has the impeccable reputation as the best WRESTLER in the world, who had the World Heavyweight Championship BECAUSE he's the best wrestler, and it shows in his work. The kind of champion/character who uses his guile, his experience, and his technical ability to win matches without shenaOxiOxiOxiOxins, without a bunch of unneeded horseshit.

All right, I'm don't ranting and shitting on today's wrestling. I know that's not what people want to read when they come here, and I don't mean to be that negative guy who only shits on stuff and I worry that's what it's coming across as. I just love professional wrestling the way it was done for ages and ages and wish we could get some more of that style, mixed in with the newer fast paced, flashy, spotty, poorly structured type stuff that most people outside this thread seem to love and enjoy these days. That's all. Give me some plain old vanilla or chocolate to go with all this rainbow sprinkles cotton candy birthday cake flavored ice cream.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh my God, I just noticed about the existence of a live show on Wednesday w/this card:



Spoiler: card



John Cena vs. Shinsuke Nakamura
Brock Lesnar vs. Kevin Owens
Charlotte vs. Asuka


I haven't seen a WWE MR show of any kind since WM 32, but I'm down for THAT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Oh my God, I just noticed about the existence of a live show on Wednesday w/this card:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're sure that's confirmed as I thought Lesnar would have nothing on his mind exept for training for Mark Hunt tbh.

Can't imagine him having a wrestling match beforehand.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zayn vs Rollins was fine. Glad it was only sub 8 minutes, keeps it fresh for the future. (and hopefully not simply tonight's RAW) Some neat exchanges, which were to be expected, fans felt quite involved, Zayn nabbed two great nearfalls out of it. The schoolboy one was very believable, even for an exhibition on SD. The downside here being the finish was awful. Zayn hits the tope, rolls Rollins in the ring, who no sells the damage to hit the Pedigree on a whim and get the win. Zapped a lot out of me there. Could have given Zayn another nearfall tease, attempt a sequence there, then have Rollins counter into the finisher to win. T'was dumb the way it panned out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock said:


> You're sure that's confirmed as I thought Lesnar would have nothing on his mind exept for training for Mark Hunt tbh.
> 
> Can't imagine him having a wrestling match beforehand.


Yeah, turns out I got worked up there. This was a thing from April, and turns out that not only is Lesnar not doing it, but the show ain't live anyway.

Sorry to disappoint, but it is what it is. At least Cena/Nak and Lesnar/Owens are being saved for special occasions.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I'd hope Lesnar/Owens happens at some point tbh and not on a network special either. Mind you, knowing WWE it'll still be the same formula as most of Lesnar's matches nowadays. 

Saying that, Owens does his own suplexes so they'll probably build it as a Suplex match anyways lol.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> :clap
> 
> I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the change in how crowds react to matches. I miss the days when fans just cheered or boo'd, only chanting a baby faces name on a come back, or on really special occasions getting the "Holy shit!" chant. It makes for SUCH a better viewing experience, seeing crowds pop like crazy for a big counter, or boo the shit out out of a heel. Nowadays we just get endless chants, I fucking hate it why would you pay all this money and just go chant for 3 hours? It's absurd.
> 
> ...



Not like I hardly have shit to add since I opine with pretty much all you said (of course, we usually have similar taste): but one thing to to add credence to what ya'll are saying bout high spots for bigmen and particularly Harper: A key little detail to remember about the Shield/Wyatts feud: Harper had said in a SD promo to help along the story of this being an all out war for team supremacy and a line that sticks with me because of how appropriate and badass it was: "Are you boys willing to DIE for this?". Harper hadn't busted out that suicide dive until EC so when he did: it really helped to add to this all out war story and backed up that yes: for Harper to bust that out at around 6'5 270 lbs, yes Harper must indeed have been willing to die for this. My point is: that first dive really meant something and then I assume because it is a cool visual:the initial psychology behind using the move left and it got implemented into everyday moveset. As a result, the effect slowly dilutes while the risk never does.

edit: by the way: just more-or-less an enhancement match: but still I thought this match was humorous and one thing of note: that sidewalk slam takeover into snake eyes then settling for a powerslam all in a motion was pretty sick by Taker:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@ATF


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/747467451546247169
:hmm:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Your reason to watch Smackdown this week:



Spoiler: Reason



Rusev vs. Cesaro for the U.S. Title after Cesaro wins a 4 way #1 contender's match against Sheamus, Del Rio, & Apollo Crews


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Considering my obtuse starting place on these RAW 2004 viewings, got my first good Evolution tag match out of what seems like plenty on the year. Trips, Flair, & Batista vs Benoit, Orton, & Benjamin. Tag match magic works for the billionth time. Trips finally had a match that didn't suck or wasn't purposely a feud advancer. The heels all work so good w/each other. I like Evolution a lot more looking back, even if Trips & Batista are p. trash. The aura of the faction itself worked, even w/those two. Minus the force feeding of Trips as a second coming of Flair booking, the idea of it was well done. And it produced a good, significant heel unit that worked week in and week out. Orton was out of it for most via a mid match injury. Not sure why they bothered w/that booking, but hey, he was SUPER over when he returned later on. Guess that was the goal? RKO is always such a great finisher considering the reactions it can get. Not gonna fall into the "too bad he fucking sucks today" spiel. This is 2004, I'm letting it speak for itself. Benoit was the star here as far as one significant performance goes. Should I even have to point that out? It's Chris Benoit. Have to say that's probably assumed. Those Benoit vs Flair interactions always rule. Might be his most awe inspiring headbutt I've ever seen too. Hang time was absurd. Not kidding; was more noteworthy than the usual spot. Smart match to move Benjamin back into once he returned from injury. He started off the match having Trips' number, which kept that year long story continued. Showing that he & the angle hasn't missed a beat. Gosh I love matches like this. Such fun & great purpose for filling out TV en route to bigger destinations.


----------



## Rodzilla nWo4lyfe (Jun 28, 2011)

Dope trailer


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

New DVD/BD? :mark:

Kewl.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Corey said:


> Your reason to watch Smackdown this week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:done


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Prospected new Razor Ramon dvd set >>


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Someone posted the Owens vs. Nakamura match from Hawaii on YouTube but it got pulled by WWE. Anyone catch it or have another link for it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Someone posted the Owens vs. Nakamura match from Hawaii on YouTube but it got pulled by WWE. Anyone catch it or have another link for it?


Someone upped it on XWT if you're a member.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RatedR10 said:


> Someone posted the Owens vs. Nakamura match from Hawaii on YouTube but it got pulled by WWE. Anyone catch it or have another link for it?


http://dai.ly/k1T5nBiCzd7bVwixrH7


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> http://dai.ly/k1T5nBiCzd7bVwixrH7


Any chance you could bung that on Filecloud.io for me Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Any chance you could bung that on Filecloud.io for me Cal?


http://filecloud.io/0x52uqvip


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:benson

Fanks.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> http://dai.ly/k1T5nBiCzd7bVwixrH7


I love you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So that Nakamura vs Cena match didn't happen?

ugh, until confirmation.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Prospected new Razor Ramon dvd set >>


Have you seen the 20 min sneak peak that's posted on the Network? I desperately wanted to avoid watching it so as not to spoil it when the full doc is released, but last night I found myself unable to sleep and nothing to watch, so I buckled and watched it.

Well, I needn't worry about it spoiling anything, all it did was get me even MORE excited for the doc to finally be released. I don't want to say it's going to be the best doc since Foley's or Punk's just yet, because you know, it's WWE they have the ability to ruin just about anything they come into contact with. However, those 20 minutes or so made this doc look EXTREMELY promising, and they didn't even cover a single second of his WWE run as Razor Ramon or his return to WCW as Scott Hall. It was all early days stuff, but it was still fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only a few more days for the full Razor doc to be released. Hopefully it shows up online nice and quick.

Cesaro/Rusev from SD is really good. Duh.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> Prospected new Razor Ramon dvd set >>


OMFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: YES!!


RatedR10 said:


> Someone posted the Owens vs. Nakamura match from Hawaii on YouTube but it got pulled by WWE. Anyone catch it or have another link for it?


 I NEED TO WATCH THIS


Big Cal's World said:


> Only a few more days for the full Razor doc to be released. Hopefully it shows up online nice and quick.
> 
> Cesaro/Rusev from SD is really good. Duh.


:mark: 

so much excitement


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Rusev was good stuff (as expected). Loved the struggle and desperation in the submission attempts late in the match and Cesaro tapping quickly was a really nice touch. *** 1/4

Assuming we'll see this Cesaro/Del Rio TV feud continue the next couple weeks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Have you seen the 20 min sneak peak that's posted on the Network? I desperately wanted to avoid watching it so as not to spoil it when the full doc is released, but last night I found myself unable to sleep and nothing to watch, so I buckled and watched it.
> 
> Well, I needn't worry about it spoiling anything, all it did was get me even MORE excited for the doc to finally be released. I don't want to say it's going to be the best doc since Foley's or Punk's just yet, because you know, it's WWE they have the ability to ruin just about anything they come into contact with. However, those 20 minutes or so made this doc look EXTREMELY promising, and they didn't even cover a single second of his WWE run as Razor Ramon or his return to WCW as Scott Hall. It was all early days stuff, but it was still fantastic.


I didn't watch it. b/c much like you, I didn't want to risk getting some of the doc itself spoiled before checking it out. I'll still stay away, but be glad knowing it's got a chance to reach the potential I want it to.

And yeah, duh, Cesaro vs Rusev on SD ruled. Thought that Accolade counter worked. Rusev vs Titus (for the championship) II on Monday. Hyped. It's the 4th, so lets see how they roll the dice for 'Murica. 

Ambrose had his first match in god, at least over a year that I had some fun w/vs Miz on the same SD too. The part when he kicked out of a Skullcrushing Finale was TERRIBLE, though. b/c that move got damaged when it can't be threatening on a B show. That glaring issue aside, those two have good chemistry w/each other. Both of these matches yesterday trumped the Zayn vs Rollins match last week, tbf. Give those something to care to watch, I guess.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i feel like watching some 2003 stuff (good and bad) for some reason

also breaking point 2009 . need to see how bad it is


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Obfuscation You didn't like any of the Ambrose/Owens matches? (I haven't seen any bar the first one they had on a house show, which was pretty good but not great iirc, but I've heard many good things about them)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Just been downloading more random stuff. 

All WCW World Heavyweight Title changes, all MITB ladder matches

and this pack
http://www.xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=148320


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This is apparently the lineup for the July 4th RAW. The USA vs. The World match is a direct ripoff of CMLL's Grand Prix.

* *Non-Title Champion vs. Champion Match*: Dean Ambrose vs. The Miz
* *Sixteen-Man Elimination Match:* Team USA vs. Team World
* *United States Title Match:* Rusev vs. Titus O’Neil
* Cena seeks payback against The Club



King Kenny said:


> also breaking point 2009 . need to see how bad it is


That's actually not that bad of a show. I don't like Cena/Orton too much but other people seem to like/love it. Christian/Regal gets praise as well and I personally love the DX/Legacy tag. Cal probably likes the main event more than anyone else.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> * Cena seeks payback against The Club


Wise choice not to bold this.



> * Sixteen-Man Elimination Match: Team USA vs. Team World


Different for WWE, at least i guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny the only thing you need to watch from Breaking Point is Christian vs Regal. Or the shithouse DX vs Legacy match just to see if you can spot Kevin Owens sitting in the audience when they're brawling to the back. Total highlight of that match, there.



ATF said:


> @Obfuscation You didn't like any of the Ambrose/Owens matches? (I haven't seen any bar the first one they had on a house show, which was pretty good but not great iirc, but I've heard many good things about them)


They're all terrible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Obfuscation said:


> Kenny the only thing you need to watch from Breaking Point is Christian vs Regal. Or the shithouse DX vs Legacy match just to see if you can spot Kevin Owens sitting in the audience when they're brawling to the back. Total highlight of that match, there.
> 
> 
> 
> They're all terrible.


And watch Punk/Taker cos its actually good outside of the finish. Their SD rematch is way better though.

And agree on Ambrose/Owens all being terrible. All of them. Terrible. Just like 99% of everything Ambrose has done since the SHIELD split.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I blocked out the entire PPV other than Christian vs Regal, so it's instinct. 

but I was normally bummed out by the early Punk vs Taker matches so other than me being all like "holy fuck it's Taker vs Punk, I'm in heaven" there's not much to talk about.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I liked Ambrose/Owens from Survivor Series last year. A good sprint. Last Man Standing wasn't bad either, although I didn't like as much as some other people and I've already read all the complaints on this forum.  Rest of their matches have been kinda meh.



Brock said:


> Different for WWE, at least i guess.


Definitely is and I'm looking forward to the match, but boy they've been directly copying a lot of stuff from the lucha world this year. :lol

A shitload of possibilities for teams though. Should be fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Kenny the only thing you need to watch from Breaking Point is Christian vs Regal. Or the shithouse DX vs Legacy match just to see if you can spot Kevin Owens sitting in the audience when they're brawling to the back. Total highlight of that match, there.
> 
> 
> 
> They're all terrible.


The house show one is not. It's good. But I haven't seen any of the others so... really, they are? Yikes. I guess I'll take your word for it. My girlfriend said the Survivor Series one was ok (she watches/watched current wrasslin' far more frequently than I do).

And btw @King Kenny, Orton/Cena I Quit is totally hilarious. Like, legit blow the roof off your house laughing worthy, so watch that too out of Breaking Point for the lulz. LOLSUPERSHEENA. Good story, tho. But still, SUPERSHEENA ending had me in stitches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My entire thoughts on BP 09 http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/breaking-point-2009-ppv-ramblings/.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal would make the best agent around w/his networking techniques. Shame he's too miserable to want to give that a go. :cal2

Big desire to watch Christian vs Regal rn


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't get people to watch my videos, never gonna be a good agent :cal2.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> I can't get people to watch my videos, never gonna be a good agent :cal2.


But you can easily get around that. Just post lesbian porn videos in your Facebook or YouTube, and then tell people: "Do I have everybody's attention now?! unk2", then promote your videos like the Brits promove economical isolation 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> But you can easily get around that. Just post lesbian porn videos in your Facebook or YouTube, and then tell people: "Do I have everybody's attention now?! unk2", then promote your videos like the Brits *promove* economical isolation 8*D


*promote

:cal2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> *promote
> 
> :cal2


Yeah, pay more attention to typos in my writing than to figuring out ways to actually make people watch your stuff, you lazy :heyman4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Yeah, pay more attention to typos in my writing than to figuring out ways to actually make people watch your stuff, you lazy :heyman4


I'm not a jew...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Just watched some random matches

Sting (c) vs Vader - Superbrawl 1993 - **** 1/4
Bret Hart (c) vs Owen Hart Summerslam 1994 - **** 3/4
Chris Jericho (c) vs Rey Mysterio - Title vs Mask match The Bash 2009 - **** 1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wanted to re-watch Sting/Vader the other day while on a bus, just came to mind. Forgot when I got home. Best US gimmick match of the 90s after Hart/Austin, IMO. Assuming Iron Man isn't really a "gimmick" match. Nor is Mask/Hair.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That was the first time I've watched it too.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I wanted to re-watch Sting/Vader the other day while on a bus, just came to mind. Forgot when I got home. Best US gimmick match of the 90s after Hart/Austin, IMO. Assuming Iron Man isn't really a "gimmick" match. Nor is Mask/Hair.


I'd say an Iron Man Match is definitely a gimmick match. Therefore you have to change your answer to Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat from WCW BeachBlast '92. :wink2:

Even though the real answer to best U.S. gimmick match of the 90s is Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker Hell In A Cell from WWF Badd Blood '97.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> That was the first time I've watched it too.


Shiiiit. :mark: Have you seen any other Sting/Vader?



Clique said:


> I'd say an Iron Man Match is definitely a gimmick match. Therefore you have to change your answer to Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat from WCW BeachBlast '92. :wink2:
> 
> Even though the real answer to best U.S. gimmick match of the 90s is Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker Hell In A Cell from WWF Badd Blood '97.


I suppose it is, yeah. Guess my thought process was it doesn't necessarily change the wrestling itself, but I should probably think of it more as whether or not it changes the match's rules from a standard match (where I still don't think a mask/hair match is a gimmick match b/c it only changes what happens in the outcome).

The REAL REAL ANSWER in top 5 form;

1. Hart/Austin
2. Rude/Steamboat
3. Sting/Vader
4. WarGames 92
5. Taker/Michaels

Though I haven't seen either Razor/Michaels ladder match since before I gave up star ratings. And it feels like I'm forgetting something really important...


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I suppose it is, yeah. Guess my thought process was it doesn't necessarily change the wrestling itself, but I should probably think of it more as whether or not it changes the match's rules from a standard match (where I still don't think a mask/hair match is a gimmick match b/c it only changes what happens in the outcome).


Exactly. Just like Eddie vs. Rey Title vs. Mask isn't a gimmick match. The match has a gimmick stipulation attached to it that will affect the match result aftermath, but like you said they work the actual match under standard match rules. 



> The REAL ANSWER in top 5 form...
> 
> 1. Hart/Austin
> 2. Rude/Steamboat
> ...


Excellent match list and I probably have the same picks in a different order. You should give the Michaels/Ramon Ladder Matches a re-watch. The SummerSlam '95 match is up there for me too. I don't know how you feel about the Hart/Hart Cage Match from SummerSlam '94 but there are quite a few people really fond of it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Exactly. Just like Eddie vs. Rey Title vs. Mask isn't a gimmick match. The match has a gimmick stipulation attached to it that will affect the match result aftermath, but like you said they work the actual match under standard match rules.


Yeah otherwise a title match would be a gimmick match I guess, ha. And certainly retirement matches.

What a bonehead, I had Eddie/Rey in mind and wrote mask/hair instead of mask/title (NOTE: originally wrote title/hair here. On fire right now).



Clique said:


> Excellent match list and I probably have the same picks in a different order. You should give the Michaels/Ramon Ladder Matches a re-watch. The SummerSlam '95 match is up there for me too. I don't know how you feel about the Hart/Hart Cage Match from SummerSlam '94 but there are quite a few people really fond of it.


Hart/Hart cage I haven't seen probably in the same amount of time as the ladder matches, but I did used to adore it. Got some mixed responses since then so I've always wondered where I'd fall on it now. 

(On subject of 90s gimmick matches, shout-out to the criminally underrated Hart/Michaels ladder match. Last time I watched it I thought it was legit excellent, and it was recent enough that I'll hold my opinion on it). 

(Also the even more underrated and even more excellent Austin/Savio Vega strap match. The one where the lights worked.)


Both Michaels/Razors are youtube. Going to watch both RIGHT NOW.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Well if we're talking about gimmick matches that don't get much mention (at least I haven't seen it lately) then I'd like to shout out Sting vs. Cactus Jack Falls Count Anywhere Match from the same show as Rude vs. Steamboat at WCW Beach Blast '92.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HUMAN CAGE MATCH needs a mention .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not seen Foley/Sting in years either, no doubt it'd do well in my mind considering a WCW 1992 match has almost never failed me. Re-watched their 91 match (from Power Hour) last year and it unfortunately didn't do a whole lot for me though. Goes to show how much my WCW list would change four years after done. 


Cool but not really popular 90s gimmick matches from WWF & WCW. I like this topic. HERE'S MORE:

-Windham/Anderson v. Doom, Street Fight, Starrcade 1990
-Barry Windham v. Brian Pillman, taped fist match, SuperBrawl 1991
-Cactus Jack v. Van Hammer, FCA, 1/21/92
-Rude/Vader/Jake the Snake/Super Invader v. Sting/Volkoff/the Steiners, Elimination tag, 2/9/92
-Cactus Jack v. Paul Orndorff, FCA, SuperBrawl III 
-Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne v. the Nasty Boys, No DQ/No Holds Barred/Four fat nutcases hit each other with stuff match, Slamboree 1994 (for some reason not as well-known as their Spring Stampede match, though it's almost as good)
-Cactus Jack v. Vader, Texas Death Match, 4/30/94
-WarGames, Fall Brawl 94
-The Undertaker v. Mankind, Boiler Room Better Than Austin/Undertaker at Backlash Match, SummerSlam 96
-Mick Foley v. Terry Funk, FCA, 5/4/97
-Chris Benoit v. Meng, Death Match, Slamboree + GAB 1997
-Vader v. Ken Shamrock, Greatest Match in History MATCH, IYH A Cold Day in Hell
-Austin & Co. v. DX, non-sanctioned 8-man tag, No Way Out 1998
-Owen Hart v. Ken Shamrock, AWESOME DUNGEON OF HELL DOOM MATCH, Fully Loaded 1998 + Lion's Den at SummerSlam
-Bam Bam Bigelow v. Hak, no DQ/hardkore/whatever, Spring Stampede 1999

Though the Hardy/Hardy shitshow from the upcoming TNA thing will be better than all of these, I'm betting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is a massive lie in that post, Yeah...

Oh and don't forget Vader Vs Bradshaw NHB or whatever it was on Raw in 98? Some good shit with those 2 big beefy bastards battering each other. Vader/Shamrock wasn't a gimmick match I don't think, just the referee let em do whatever the fuck they wanted because who the fuck would get in between those 2?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK you caught me the Hardy thing was a joke.

I wasn't sure about Vader/Shamrock but wikipedia says it's a No Hold's Barred.

Still not seen Vader/Bradshaw. Uhhhh DOING IT NOW!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader vs Bradshaw NHB is one of those forgotten little gems from the IYH series that some people tend to either not know about, or forget. Really good, short slugfest.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> Vader vs Bradshaw NHB is one of those forgotten little gems from the IYH series that some people tend to either not know about, or forget. Really good, short slugfest.


Yup, delivered. And pretty unexpected that NHB stipped match could have 1 foreign object used, and barely go near the guardrail, especially in 1998. Bradshaw's clotheslines at the end were Hansen-level.

I actually only realized when it was over that I watched your upload too. Thanks man. ;D Maybe I'll watch that Flair/Eaton now...

The Raw Vader/Bradshaw would have been just as good if given the right...everything. Kane run-ins ruin good matches in any time frame.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought i'd uploaded it at some point, but wasn't sure lol. Pleased it's still up TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cannot wait until September for the HARDCORE TITLE set to be released. So much fun crazy matches on that set. 

Now if only they could release a WCW version for some SCREAMIN' NORMAN SMILEY matches :mark:.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

@Obfuscation, thoughts on Elgin now being sent to CMLL and him eliminating Rush in the World Grand Prix?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> @Obfuscation, thoughts on Elgin now being sent to CMLL and him eliminating Rush in the World Grand Prix?


* with the help of La Mascara retaliating and taking out his own teammate first.

Context, Rah!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hi, friends.






Same guy also uploaded Nakamura vs. Jericho.


----------



## Rodzilla nWo4lyfe (Jun 28, 2011)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnetwork.com/...esnar-blu-ray-no-extras-mitb-2016-dvd/118174/


> A documentary feature (or “Brockumentary” as WDN readers were calling it) is no longer planned for the “Brock Lesnar – Eat. Sleep. Conquer. Repeat.” DVD and Blu-ray later this year.
> 
> However, new packages are planned to be included between the featured matches.
> 
> ...


Oh for fuck's sake.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm a little late to an earlier discussion, but what the hell. Regarding the "ADD", culture warrior bs: If the "Gotha!" game was my thing, I could just as easily point out that fans show their ADD when they complain "I've already seen this match 1000 times" about two performers that have had 4-6 television matches in a year, max. Or when they complain even if two performers have faced off once because OMG they gave away their first encounter! As if pairings don't get better with time or that every story is always the same match to match. It's ridiculous. Matches are good or they aren't - IDGAF how many times the two performers have faced each other beforehand. 

Likewise, complaining about Zayn/Rollins being "Given away" (OMG!) as a televised main event is stupid. Zayn, at this point in the E, needs exposure more than anything else. And having Rollins - one of most talented performers on the roster - only aids Zayn. This is exactly how Bryan got over: TV time against quality opponents. Speaking of Bryan, look how that turned out. Some complained about giving away his matches against Rollins on Raw and SD! but look what happened - we're thankful for the ones we got. Pissing on the present while looking at the past w/rose colored glasses doesn't make you a good, smart wrestling fan. Quite the opposite.

I remember, for instance, the RAE had *The Worst* story ever conceived between two of my favorite wrestlers of all time: Rey/Eddie in that shit w/Rey's son. I remember being fucking appalled by that. How can you fuck up a pairing like that? 'E found a way. I also remember fans at The Famed Bingo Hall booing and starting boring chants at the start of Eddie/Dean 2/3 falls. Sure, it was small and they were shouted down, but to act like fan patience is at an all time low is just a disregard of history. Holy shit, that's exactly how the AE operated - proceed as if fans have a 5 minute or less attention span. Ghastly.

Maybe that's just me: I got into wrestling watching Rey/Malenko on a throw away/no build, random Nitro match which absolutely blew the socks off of my little feet. You never know. I've probably seen that pairing 100 times, and I would book flights and order front row seats if those two wanted to lock up at PWG or for charity, or something. Let me dream dammit!

WWE, since MitB, has been the best in years. I mean, Sheamus won last year. Sheamus! Dean is quality with the belt, and he'll get even better over time, and he'll be an even better heel after that. The Miz? Crushing it. Cesaro? Crushing it. AJ and Cena is money - you've gotta have the TV on mute or fantasy booking yourself into delusion to believe the opposite. Oh, and Rusev? CRUSHING it. Baklava for all! I honestly try to watch the show, not as someone who's watched them since their independent/international days, but instead let myself be reminded of their brilliance. Owens does that in all his matches. What a heel, what a guy. Reigns on top stunted the show, as he couldn't carry multiple segments in a show like Dean does now. It's not all perfect - the monkey see, monkey do nature of wrestling makes performers less distinguished individually (Harper) and has led to the loss of _a lot_ of moves and approaches to the game. Part of why The Miz is so good is that his focus is on character and promos, instead of an intense in-ring focus. Meanwhile, Owens is the exact opposite, but his details and tight grip to being a heel personality makes him special. Sure, the WWE has the best roster in terms of young talent in a decade, but their story hasn't been told in the WWE yet. That's why Zayn/Rollins is fine - Zayn just isn't there yet. He will be, barring injury, because he's just too talented.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

#RandomQuestion , I honestly didn't know where to ask this, but does anyone remember the youtube user TheSuicidalDragon ( if I'm not mistaken that was his name), he was very well known and had tons of Top 10 Moves for numerous wrestlers? Anyone knows what happened to him?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

So I've just downloaded a "Best matches from Smackdown 1999-2003" pack, "best raw matches from 1996-2005" pack and all WWE Hardcore title changes pack. 

Looking forward to this.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1998, Bill Goldberg defeated Scott Hall then Hollywood Hogan to win the WCW World Heavyweight Title on Nitro from The Georgia Dome in Atlanta.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My picks:

Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Akira Tozawa OR Gran Metallik (Semi Final)
Kota Ibushi vs. Johnny Gargano (Semi Final)

Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Kota Ibushi (Final)

Hopefully Ibushi wins it all because Sabre does not need to win another damn major tournament. Some exciting prospects in the top left side as we might get Tajiri/Tozawa or Tajiri/Dorada. Ibushi will probably have some nice looking matches against Cedric, Kendrick/Nese, and probably Gargano. Bottom right of the bracket is EVOLVE central. :lol


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, The Outsiders & Hulk Hogan "defeated" Team WCW (Sting, Lex Luger, & Randy Savage) at Bash At The Beach 1996 from the Ocean Center in Daytona Beach, Florida.

n...W...o...

- Vic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rollins vs. Uso and Jericho vs. Zayn were good matches from Smackdown. You guys should check it out.

Enzo almost killed himself in his match with AJ as well. He is not a good in-ring worker, that's for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader vs Bradshaw from Breakdown is one of the best things around. I feel like we come around to bringing this back up once per new thread and yay @ it being rn. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST; NOT FATTEST.

I should watch it b/c I just finished Smackdown and holy fuck was that dire to sit through. Rollins can't even put an Uso away w/o a cheap, unbelievable struggle, then Zayn wins but has to be jumped per the norm post match. And they wonder why some people eventually lose interest in the junk when you can't tell what month you're in as it continues to blend together. Then good grief @ Enzo nearly dying for the second time this year. But calling him not a solid, effective wrestler is absurd. A botch and lack of comparable endless workrate to some others means dick. He's obviously "good" w/the pull he has on the audience w/his charisma & babyface charm.

Oh and Zack Ryder beat Sheamus clean :lmao Apparently this is b/c of a short term program vs Rusev. Do they think about their decisions AT ALL?



Rah said:


> @Obfuscation, thoughts on Elgin now being sent to CMLL and him eliminating Rush in the World Grand Prix?


Sounds like I should be asking you this instead, w/Rush taking the L. I just happen to question the booking behind it all. I wonder how much of this was spawned b/c Meltzer praised a match Elgin had w/Kamaitachi in PWG. I can see stuff being that petty these days through "fuck it" booking. Bad enough Gedo allowed Ishii to be choked out by Bobby Fish of all people. (meanwhile Fish in New Japan is nothing more than a Junior tag division level guy) Even the ROH crowd didn't buy that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where is @Choke2Death !? He needs to start liking wrestling again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He'll quit the forum again once he realizes it'll mean nothing next to Brock Lesnar having a classic w/CM Punk at the same event 3 years earlier.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What's the point of getting excited for seeing Orton get Suplexed a billion times?

Let's face facts, folks: WWE have fucked over Brock w/that formula. Suplex City was fun the first few times. Overstayed its welcome LOOOOONG since.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two stale personas being given up in a false dream match b/c of their past kayfabe accomplishments. Once upon a time this had reason for interest, in 2016 there's a glaring obvious answer as to why this was revealed on a random edition of Smackdown.

Well, anyways: this Wednesday the Cruiserweight Classic begins. Fingers crossed that's as fun as it could be. Some of the names involved should make it worth the first time viewing.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

King Kenny said:


> So I've just downloaded a "Best matches from Smackdown 1999-2003" pack, "best raw matches from 1996-2005" pack and all WWE Hardcore title changes pack.
> 
> Looking forward to this.


add on to this also downloaded a rey mysterio pack, best wcw 1998 matches, best NXT matches pack

:sodone

is the SCOTT HALL documentary out yet?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> is the SCOTT HALL documentary out yet?


To buy? Yes. Online? No .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread (And Stairs)*



Big Cal's World said:


> To buy? Yes. Online? No .




xwt might upload then perhaps


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread (And Stairs)*



King Kenny said:


> xwt might upload then perhaps


That's what I'm waiting for. Came out Monday in UK, and Tuesday in US, but no sign of it yet .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That's a downer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> That's a downer.


Hoping it will be on soon, just been reading the comments on the request page, and someone has it but his trial ran out for his Bluray ripping program. However someone just uploaded a cracked version for him so... yeah, hopefully online soon :mark:.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Just caught the American Alpha tag match from the last NXT Special. These guys can smash it on the main roster. **** for that match. Vince is going to love Jordan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Daniel97 said:


> Just caught the American Alpha tag match from the last NXT Special. These guys can smash it on the main roster. **** for that match. Vince is going to love Jordan.


Just a shame there isn't really any decent team for them to work with on the main roster atm. Hopefully when they get called up they have a team to work with .


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Daniel97 said:


> Just caught the American Alpha tag match from the last NXT Special. These guys can smash it on the main roster. **** for that match. Vince is going to love Jordan.


You should catch their two-out-of-three falls match from this past Wednesday.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah it was another good match and it was nice to see a 2/3 falls WWE match that didn't have a fall in the opening stretch. Wasn't to keen on Jordan not selling the knee that was worked on for a good 5 minutes when Gable tagged him back in. Around ***1/2 for me.

I think a heel New Day would have a fun match with Alpha.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How do you know that you really have no interest in current pro wrestling:

1) Take WWE's list of their top matches of the year so far:



> 1) Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura; NXT TakeOver: Dallas
> 2) John Cena vs. AJ Styles; WWE Money in the Bank
> 3) The Miz vs. Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens — Fatal 4-Way Intercontinental Championship Match; ER
> 4) Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles — Extreme Rules WWE Championship Match; Extreme Rules
> ...


2) Recognize that you've only seen four of these matches (Zayn/Nak, AA/Revival, Women's 3-Way and Zayn/Owens) :lmao

Well at least they got their #1 right. Because there's no chance that any of that bullshit is better. Also, WTF is the MITB match doing there? I haven't seen it, but I don't need to for the acknowledgment that it's the same Goddamn match that's been done a trillion times now, and it stopped being fun to watch forever ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Scott Hall documentary is fantastic.

AA/Revival 2 out of 3 falls is awesome. Only behind their Texas match for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did you watch their Takeover: The End match? Imo, it's the best one they've had.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Did you watch their Takeover: The End match? Imo, it's the best one they've had.


I did, but personally think its their weakest. Texas > 2/3 falls > The End imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I see. It's The End > Dallas > 2/3 Falls for me. But bottom line is all three are awesome.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cesaro and Styles had a singles match tonight in Toronto. I'm jealous. I hope it ends up on YouTube.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

That match had to be good. Let me know if you find any footage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

My favorite Sting match:



- Vic


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> I see. It's The End > Dallas > 2/3 Falls for me. But bottom line is all three are awesome.


This for me too. I think the final few minutes of "The End" match just surpasses the Dallas one. Also didnt have the botch. Be great to see them go at it on the main roster but Dash & Dawson just don't have the look for the main roster which is a shame because their heel work is so great. Hope I am wrong.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

For me it's Dallas > The End > 2/3 falls, but they're all really, really close. I could re-watch all three and my rankings would change.



ATF said:


> How do you know that you really have no interest in current pro wrestling:
> 
> 1) Take WWE's list of their top matches of the year so far:
> 
> ...


Heh, my top-10 from WWE/NXT thus far:

1. Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Takeover: Dallas)
2. The Miz vs. Cesaro vs. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn (Extreme Rules)
3. American Alpha vs. The Revival (NXT Takeover: Dallas)
4. American Alpha vs. The Revival (NXT Takeover: The End)
5. AJ Styles vs. John Cena (Money in the Bank)
6. Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns (Money in the Bank)
7. American Alpha vs. The Revival (2/3 Falls)
8. Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Austin Aries (NXT Takeover: The End)
9. The New Day vs. Chris Jericho & AJ Styles (Raw 03/07/16)
10. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn (Payback)

HM: Money in the Bank Ladder match, Reigns vs. Styles (ER), Owens vs. Rollins vs. Ambrose (Live Event 07/01/16), Owens vs. Ambrose vs. Zayn (Live Event 03/11/16), Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte vs. Becky Lynch (WM).


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Good to see someone else loved Rollins/Reigns. Only match I'd put in my top 10 is probably Cesaro/Owens from Raw 11/04 and Reigns/AJ from ER is top 5 material.

Edit - does anyone have a list for top 10 matches in NXT history? I just saw Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival for the first time and wow ****1/2. Incredible stuff


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Including NXT, my top 10 for the year:

1. Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Takeover: Dallas) *****
2. Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles (WWE Extreme Rules) **** 1/4
3. Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon (Wrestlemania 32) ****
4. The Royal Rumble Match ****
5. Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles (WWE Payback) ****
6. Finn Balor vs. Samoa Joe (NXT Takeover: Dallas) ****
7. Austin Aries vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NXT Takeover: The End) ****
8. American Alpha vs. The Revival (NXT Takeover: The End) ****
9. 2 out of 3 Falls: The Revival vs. American Alpha (NXT 7/6) ****
10. IC Title Ladder Match (Wrestlemania 32) ****

Honorable Mention: Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Becky, Extreme Rules IC Title 4-Way, Cena/AJ MITB, Rollins/Reigns MITB, Alpha/Revival Dallas, Fastlane Triple Threat, Del Rio/Kalisto 2 out of 3 Falls, Styles/Jericho Mania, and the RAW 4 Way #1 Contender's Match.
@Daniel97 I don't have a full list but be sure to check out Regal vs. Ohno (Chris Hero), Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls, the main event from Takeover: Fatal 4 Way (possibly my absolute favorite in NXT history), Zayn vs. Neville from R Evolution, Neville vs. Balor from Rival, and pretty much any combination of Charlotte/Sasha/Becky/Bayley. It doesn't really count but also see Owens/Balor from Beast in the East too if you haven't.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ambrose vs. Rollins 1-on-1 for the WWE Title on RAW next week. If you missed RAW tonight be sure to at least check out the Rollins Report (hilarious) and in-ring segment with those two afterwards. It was excellent. The match happening all but confirms they're getting split after the draft I imagine. Monstrous week of WWE programming starting on Wednesday with Nakamura/Balor on NXT and then the Cruiserweight Classic. Steph and Shane naming their respective GMs on RAW and then the draft on the live Smackdown. Good shit lying ahead!
@IT'S VADER TIME some of this is gonna look weird as hell on paper, but here's the rest of our Battleground card. :lol

*United States Championship:* Rusev (c) vs. Zack Ryder
*Intercontinental Championship:* The Miz (c) vs. Darren Young
*Highlight Reel:* Special guest, the returning Randy Orton :mark:


----------



## Quackattack (Jul 12, 2016)

I would have created a thread but I don't have the required amount of posts. So I'm thinking about traveling to Orlando for Mania next year. I'm curious about when the various indy companies will announce tickets will be on sale for their events. Is it a month or so prior to Mania, or multiple months? Also fingers crossed that LU will be one of those companies.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Watched the Scott Hall documentary and it was great. Only gripes:



> - They ignored why he got left off the Wrestlemania XII card.
> 
> - Didn't acknowledged how much of a troublemaker he was in WCW to some of his co-workers.
> 
> ...


- Vic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Daniel97 said:


> Good to see someone else loved Rollins/Reigns. Only match I'd put in my top 10 is probably Cesaro/Owens from Raw 11/04 and Reigns/AJ from ER is top 5 material.
> 
> Edit - does anyone have a list for top 10 matches in NXT history? I just saw Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival for the first time and wow ****1/2. Incredible stuff


Here's mine, off the top of my head:

01) Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro, Arrival, ****3/4
02) Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, Dallas, ****1/2
03) Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn, R-Evolution, ****1/2
04) Sasha Banks vs. Bayley, Brooklyn, ****1/2
05) Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch, Unstoppable, ****1/4
06) Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro, 2 Out Of 3 Falls, ****1/4
07) Neville vs. Zayn vs. Kidd vs. Breeze, Fatal 4-Way, ****1/4
08) William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno, April 2013, ****1/4
09) Bayley vs. Sasha Banks, Respect, ****1/4
10) Kevin Owens vs. Finn Bálor, The Beast In The East, ****
HM's: AA/Revival The End ****, Zayn/Breeze 1st Takeover ****, Regal/Cesaro December 2013 ****

Though I would say that about 3/4 of those can only be understood if you had followed their build up and the emotional road leading up to what they would devolve into (especially Neville/Zayn and Sasha/Bayley Brooklyn). I have a higher rating for Zayn/Cesaro than you do for that alone - pretty sure you watched the Arrival match by itself, but watching the 2OO3F match will only make it better (cause callbacks and shit).


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks @ATF & @Corey off work today so going to watch a few of them.

Not Ambrose' biggest fan but the segment with Rollins towards the start of Raw was fantastic mic work from both of them.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Top 10 all-time NXT matches for me:

1 - Shinsuke Nakamura VS Sami Zayn Takeover: Dallas - *****
2 - Sami Zayn VS Adrian Neville Takeover: R Evolution - *****
3 - Bayley VS Sasha Banks Takeover: Brooklyn - ****3/4
4 - Bayley VS Sasha Banks Takeover: Respect - ****1/2
5 - Sami Zayn VS Cesaro 2/3 Falls - ****1/2
6 - Becky Lynch VS Sasha Banks Takeover: Unstoppable - ****1/2
7 - William Regal VS Cesaro December 2013 - ****1/4
8 - American Alpha VS The Revival Takeover: Dallas - ****1/4
9 - Asuka VS Bayley - Takeover: Dallas - ****+
10 - Fuck me if I know. Too much good shit to pick from.

I don't know what it was about Dallas, but I found it absolutely fucking glorious.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day,



Vader defeated Sting to win the WCW Championship at The Great American Bash 1992 from the Civic Center in Albany, New York.



Bill Goldberg defeated Curt Hennig to retain the WCW World Heavyweight Title at Bash At The Beach 1998 from the Cox Arena in San Diego, California.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader/Sting GAB; :mark: I know everyone talks about their Superbrawl match but the Bash match is excellent too tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got around to watching last week's NXT. 2/3 falls was class. American Alpha are great, but screw it, The Revival are greater and lets start talking about them more often plz. So glad they didn't drop the straps immediately. Would have been ugh if WWE would have whored out the "two time" champ thing that quickly. Revival have plenty left to give while on top, keep em there. This was better than Texas, and just a shade behind the The End match. All 3 are top notch stuff at the end of the day. Awesome, awesome trilogy of tag matches.

Bayley vs Bliss from this same NXT was good. Bliss' first actual impressive showing. (lets not go haywire and start trying to comment on past matches, she's sucked) Seeing her actually utilize her gymnast background in her fluid movements on what she uses as offense was a step in the right direction. I'm down for Bayley vs Nia Jax III. I just hope a better Bayley shows up, b/c the second match she was terrible at selling. It was Jax that kept that match up to par w/her great showing.

The flip side to this is I don't much have any reason to care for Nakamura vs Balor tomorrow. Prove me wrong and have it be good, sure. There's just no reason for me to care given the disinterest in Balor matches & knowing their last match in Japan was shit. Cruiserweight Classic though, yay. Please be fun.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yay, I'm not the only one who's not interested in Balor's matches.

Talk about someone who needs a heel turn badly.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

August 17th, 1998 Nitro might be the best overall Nitro ever; Awesome DDP/Bret promo that lead to a great match. Eddie shooting on Eric and how shit WCW is. Kanyon & Horace vs. Raven & Saturn was unexpected gem. Scott Steiner faking more injures :lmao And THE DEBUT OF WARRIOR!!! Just a shame Henning/Malenko wasn't given more time.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I love Shinsuke, but wtf is with him just suddenly no-selling the leg and using it for most of the offense in the comeback up to this post?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bad logic? It happens. It shouldn't, but it does.

Or the rumor that WWE tells their workers to not sell much (or at all) has taken effect and this is one clear example.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That match didn't live up to the hype. It was a good match, don't get me wrong, but it did not live up to the hype from the spoilers and the way people made it seem like a MOTYC.

I could seriously give that match anywhere between a ***1/4 - ***3/4 rating, so I'll go right in the middle with a ***1/2.

Hopefully Finn appears on the main roster set up as a heel aligned with The Club, because babyface Finn does absolutely nothing for me no matter how much paint he wears.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That may have been one of Balor's best individual performances since coming to NXT. The leg work on Nakamura was BRUTAL. Loved pretty much everything he did but was obviously disappointed by Nak's refusal to sell it or whatever it is that he did (just kept using the knee repeatedly). I've seen him and other guys do that in New Japan on a regular basis and it's pretty annoying. Idk if it's a strong style thing or a refusal to let your opponent know you're hurt or what. *** 1/2 as well for the match though. Agreed on Balor needing to go heel and I was pleasantly surprised by how he worked this match.

------------------

Cruiserweight Classic was a blast. LOVED Bryan & Mauro on commentary. So many outside names dropped. :lol Metalik/Saez was good stuff for less than 5 minutes. Dorada looked GREAT while Saez was clearly trying too hard with his weird ass facials and movements. Dorada's 2nd round match should be a hell of a lot of fun. Lun/Daivari and Alexander/Petiot were decent enough. Ho Ho Lun is a fucking dweeb who I can't get behind. German Suplex finisher too? C'mon now. Cedric is in the best shape of his life and I wouldn't be surprised if he's offered an NXT contract. Him vs. Ibushi in the 2nd should be a doozy. Speaking of Ibushi, what a showing from him! Best match of the night against Sean Maluta. Definitely excited for the next like 8 weeks of this. :mark:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

RatedR10 said:


> I love Shinsuke, but wtf is with him just suddenly no-selling the leg and using it for most of the offense in the comeback up to this post?


*This has been a Nakamura trope forever. *


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Really enjoyed the Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls match from nxt (2013 i believe?)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWE Cruiserweight Classic Episode 1*

Been a while since I did any written content for wrestling. My "5 matches with" is still something I plan on making a regular thing, but for now I think I'll ramble on the WWE's CWC!

Let me start off by saying I only know maybe 4 people in this entire tournament. As in, I've only seen 4 of them wrestle before. A couple of names I've heard, but that's it. Almost everyone here is brand new to me, so honestly I'm kinda excited to see if I can find some new wrestlers to become fans of!


*Gran Metalik Vs Alejandro Saez*

This CWC starts off with a Mexican Luchadore (instead of those Japanese ones, right Russo?), and a wrestler from Chile! CHILE!

Damn, Saez dropped 30lbs to be in this tournament... and taught himself wrestling by watching videos online? Dayum!

:lmao Metalik escapes from an arm lock and Saez looks baffled... so he runs and kicks the Luchadore :lmao.

Crazy springboard from the MIDDLE ROPE to the floor from Metalik. I'm with... uhhh, the commentator that isn't Bryan... in that I haven't seen that done before. I don't think. I could have. I forget things. I've seen TENRYU Vs KENTA about 5 times and every time I went into it thinking I'd never seen it before :lmao.

This one isn't too long, but both guys get to show off a couple of cool moves and shit which is all we can ask for I guess in a CW tournament between two people that most of the fans will have never seen before. Metalik wins with a fisherman's driver.

*Rating: ***



*Hoho Lun Vs Ariya Daivari*

DAIVARI'S BROTHER... DAIVARI!

That poor crowd. An Iranian wrestler in the ring and no American for them to chant USA at .

Meh. This match felt like a basic low card match on Superstars or something. And Hoho looked green as shit too tbh. And he won. So we get another match from him at least. Yey...

*Rating: 1/2**



*Clement Petiot Vs Cedric Alexander*

I want CEDRIC to win. Because CEDRIC is an awesome name. CEDRIC.

Oh and his opponent is French so... that helps too .

CEDRIC'S Pastor told him he couldn't make it as a wrestler :lmao. GOD HATES WRESTLING. Its official. Guess he's bitter about losing to Vince and Shane back in 06.

We go from a boring, basic match with someone who looks green as shit, to a match with 2 guys who definitely look polished and are already putting on a better match within the first minute.

I think I am becoming a Petiot fan. His style is pretty great. Some hard hitting moves combined with suplexes. I dig that. Some of his shots look nice and nasty. 

CEDRIC still has the name CEDRIC though. And he seems like a fun, fast moving high flyer. He can bump pretty well too. This is turning into a very good match that I'm having a lot of fun with.

HOLY SHIT AT CEDRIC'S FINISH. That's awesome. Go watch it and see for yourself. This whole match is worth it .

A little disappointed tbh that Petiot didn't win cos I was definitely enjoying him more, but meh, CEDRIC is cool too. Good match.

*Rating: ***1/2*



*Kota Ibushi Vs Sean Maluta*

Main event time in this first episode. Ibushi is a name I absolutely know, but have never seen wrestle lol. He and Jack Saber Jr seem to be the favourites to end up in the final. Would be hilarious if he lost in the first round .

Oh god Sean Maluta is a Samoan. I expect him to be talked up like the greatest Samoan not signed with WWE or some shit lol. Ever since Roman's original push, WWE are trying to make every Samoan seem like the greatest thing ever.

Ha, Maluta gets kicked straight away. KEEP KICKING HIM DAMMIT.

Yey another kick . KOTA'S GONNA KILL YOU chant lol.

Ha, Maluta misses the splash. FUCK YO SAMOAN SPLASH.

:mark: T-BONE SUPLEX :mark:. More suplexes please.

Cool Codebreaker like move from Maluta off the second rope, and Ibushi pretty much does a Scott Hall Stunner bump off it and it looks great lol. Maluta tries to follow it up with a dive and botches it to fuck :lmao.

WELL FUCK ME SIDEWAYS. Pele kick from Ibushi. Except Maluta was STOOD ON THE ROPES. That was one fucking HIGH kick, and a PELE KICK at that. Fucking impressive.

SUPERKICK~! Maluta hits one of the best superkicks I've seen in a good while. And Ibushi took is excellently too. Can we replace both Usos with this guy?

LAST RIDE SIT-OUT POWERBOMB~! Ibushi wins.

Fun match. Not sold on Ibushi as of yet though, will need to see more from him. He's definitely impressive at what he CAN do though. Maluta had some good moments here too, showing he's definitely better than both Usos combined.

*Rating: ****


Good start to this CWC. Ibushi definitely has the potential to make a fan out of me in the future, I just need to see more of him. CEDRIC and Petiot both looks very good too, and I'd love to see them both in WWE after this, and that's based on the one match against each other.

​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2 HOURS OF WWE NETWORK WRASSLIN~:

Bálor/Nakamura: ***1/2
Mascarita/Saez: **3/4
Hoho/Daivari: *
Alexander/French guy: ***1/4
MOTHERFUCKIN' IBUSHI/Maluta: ***1/4-***1/2

NXT + CWC combo = WIN. Kicking things off w/the match of a lot of HYPE~ surrounding it, Bálor/Nak was probably the worst "dream match" (which isn't actually a dream match since they've wrestled a bunch of times in Japan before) that Nak has been involved with, but still very good overall. Honest to God, Bálor totally outperformed Shinsuke. That was probably Bálor's best singles performance ever in WWE (or 2nd best to one of the Owens matches), he was relentless w/his expressions, his energy and his AWESOME leg work. Seriously, had no idea that his limb work was as good as that. He needs a heel turn quick to show off more of this. Shinsuke... you're awesome, one of the BITW, but you are a *GODAWFUL* leg seller. Just sayin'. Just sayin'. Match was still a lot of fun, great sequences, no choreographed indy bullshit, Bálor's performance was excellent, Nak's was fine besides the leg selling, it was good. Just nowhere near worth the ITSALMOSTASGOODASTHESAMIMATCH!!! hype.

As for the CWC, it was a blast and I plan on following the tournament through and through, for sure. Mascarita's match was pretty short, but for a 5 minute flips throwdown, it was everything that a 5 minute flips throwdown should be. A ton of fun, even if I felt that Saez could've used his size more for his advantage. Alexander/Whatshisname was pretty cool too, fairly basic structure wise but very well executed, w/Cedric Alexander rocking THE BEST DAMN FINISHER I'VE SEEN IN FUCKING YEARS. Ibushi's match was easily MOTN, the man is a Goddamn machine, he can have good matches w/just about everyone and him vs. Zack Sabre Jr. in the inevitable finals will be an easy MOTYC. But to his credit, Maluta looked impressive on his own, holding on w/Kota all the way through and putting on a fine little performance, especially for the story they were telling. Hoho/Daivari was the most bleh match of the night, and Hoho, as likeable a personality as he may have, doesn't do much for me in the ring (and these two really lacked chemistry), but it was still fine for what it was, even if very skippable.

WRASSLIN IS GOOD AGAIN!!! HELL, EVEN TNA'S HARDY SHITFEST WAS SOMEWHAT FUN TO WATCH!!!! (*remembers Main Roster WWE's state of things*) Oh.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Looking forward to watching CWC. Hopefully the crowd aren't as annoying as the one for Nakamura/Balor. The match itself is ***1/2 but the crowd, commentators and even the bowing at the end just showed they were trying to hard to make it a classic that it just wasen't.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Money In The Bank 2013 took place from the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey guys, my girlfriend and I are buying a house so I could use any extra money I can get and I've got a SHIT FUCKING TON of wrestling DVDs I'm looking to part ways with. I've got pretty much any major company you can think of. Got some of the store exclusive PPV Blu Rays, the 2 disc edition of Self Destruction of Ultimate Warrior, and loads of other stuff that's not easy to find online. If anyone's interested, send me a PM and we'll go from there. Doesn't matter if you're looking for one or two things in particular or just wanna know what I have. Just please don't ask me to list EVERYTHING because that would drive me or anyone insane. :lol Thanks fellas!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone catch Superstars this week? Really fun Axel/Sami match and a short but good Summer/Becky match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nakamura vs Balor sucked. Ok, getting that out of the way, Cruiserweight Classic stuff:

I loved the presentation. I'm talking LOVED it. So fun and fresh for WWE, which really helped put the competition spin into a better perspective. Yeah, you can't help but associate w/UFC in some regards, but at least this is something that is aware in knowing what combat sport is currently hot today. Nothing wrong w/taking a little of that and incorporating it onto your sport. It's that mentality that made the bulk of the matches entertaining throughout too. You don't expect to get "five star matches" from these sprints, but see the styles match ups in various sprints to see new faces try what they can to win in a 20 minutes of less window.

Dorada/Metallik vs Saez was the proper opener. Two dudes who'll do a lot of flash offense to set the tone of a cruiserweight competition. Then you work in later the more melting pot styles. I'm a big Dorada fan so good on him to look good, win, and get some at least another match under his belt. Saez I knew from NOAH. He was a mixed bag over there, but I enjoyed him in this. He's known for working short matches like these, so it all was well under his wheelhouse. Was I the only one who noticed that Dorada's mask fell off as he hit the Cradle Shock for the win? Thought that was kind of funny.

Daivari's brother vs shitty Chinese guy was there. Damn that Chinese guy sucked, huh? He would overly celebrate or look confused after every sequence. Had a bad feeling he'd win (I found myself rooting for a guy named Daivari b/c of this. That's a first) I saw the brackets and figured Hoho will be out in the second match. idk who he was lined up vs, but I'm p. sure it was one of the givens. This is gonna bug me until I go look again. Blah whatever. 

I wouldn't go out on a limb as much as Cal did w/the Cedric vs Petiot match. But they did mesh well w/each other as far as trading some spiffy moves w/each other goes. I smelled Cedric winning a mile away not b/c he's actually got a decent reputation out there, but b/c I knew WWE wasn't going to let him work a match w/o showing the world his finisher. LUMBAR CHECK. Cedric is someone who I've never hated, but have hated matches he's been in on the indies b/c of you know, stupid indie geek tendencies. Kind of thought he'd be someone solid to watch had he use his brain better and utilize what he's got in a much more grounded environment. WWE seems to be that place. Petiot got dealt a bad hand b/c we may never see him again. I wouldn't object to him returning, there's potential.

Ibushi vs Maluta went exactly how I figured it would. Glad to see Ibushi break out some of his vintage offense in the first round. Good introduction for him. The Samoan guy wasn't going to win, but knowing WWE and their legacy w/that, Ibushi taking nearly 10 minutes to put him away will do well for him in the long run. The botch was wild. Maluta clearly jumped WAY too soon, but somehow it managed to not turn out as bad as it could have. Wasn't sure if the Phoenix Splash would be used, then it wasn't. I support the sitout Last Ride being used to put people away. Not like he didn't win matches w/it in Japan. As if we weren't wise to it to begin w/, Ibushi is clearly winning the block he's in. Already so much exposure on him.

Mauro mentioned Chris Hero on commentary. That may have been the highlight of the night. The commentary was fine. Well a bit more than that, they were having fun, that's always cool. I guess it's just not a surprise when it wasn't bad like the rest of the shows in WWE are. Mauro is actually there to namedrop to give it a more that international flavor, but Danielson was the fun part. Probably b/c it's Bryan Danielson and god damn we all love the guy no matter what he's doing.

Other than the disappointing choice to put Hoho Lun over, this was the bit of fun I had hoped it would be. Next week I'm def down for more. TJP & Tozawa get their matches and so does TAJIRI.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Brye said:


> Anyone catch Superstars this week? Really fun Axel/Sami match and a short but good Summer/Becky match.


*I watched these after Cesaro/Owens from Raw this week and while Cesaro/Owens was obviously "better", I had much more fun watching them 2 matches. Summer Rae in full on STOOGE mode is :yas and Social Outcasts are my new favourite act after watching this and Cesaro/Axel from last weeks Main Event. Definitely watch that if you haven't btw, same format as the Zayn one but executed better. The BO TRAIN spot in the Cesaro match. <3333333333. Bo yelling out HE'S MY BEST FRIEND whenever Axel does something good. <3 ily Bo. Also Slater has the greatest distraction spot ever in the Zayn match. The C shows have had some stuff worth checking out on them the past couple of weeks actually. Cesaro/Usos vs ADR/Dudleys on Superstars this week is good too. Bubba's hatred of HIGH CHIEF PETER MAIVIA. ily. Also a came from VERY UNDERRATED Alicia Fox.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ignoring the Alicia Fox comment, cool to know there's a Cesaro vs Axel match on the lower tier show. I can be into that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

seabs said:


> *I watched these after Cesaro/Owens from Raw this week and while Cesaro/Owens was obviously "better", I had much more fun watching them 2 matches. Summer Rae in full on STOOGE mode is :yas and Social Outcasts are my new favourite act after watching this and Cesaro/Axel from last weeks Main Event. Definitely watch that if you haven't btw, same format as the Zayn one but executed better. The BO TRAIN spot in the Cesaro match. <3333333333. Bo yelling out HE'S MY BEST FRIEND whenever Axel does something good. <3 ily Bo. Also Slater has the greatest distraction spot ever in the Zayn match. The C shows have had some stuff worth checking out on them the past couple of weeks actually. Cesaro/Usos vs ADR/Dudleys on Superstars this week is good too. Bubba's hatred of HIGH CHIEF PETER MAIVIA. ily. Also a came from VERY UNDERRATED Alicia Fox.*


Summer is so good at all the little things in the ring. She's a really smart wrestler and I think you can kind of see why Dusty always talked so highly of her. Did you see the match she had against Natalya on Superstars in June? She got "you can't wrestle" chants so she kept just mocking the crowd and getting a little more technical and chopping the shit out of Natalya during an Indian deathlock. I know she's not the second coming of Bryan Danielson in the ring but I find it hard not to have fun watching her matches and I hope the draft does well. Or at least gives her weekly mic time.

Social Outcasts are fun as hell! Cesaro completely derailing the entire train was amazing, that match was really fun. In Zayn/Axel, I love how every time Axel did some little thing, Bo and Slater would go nuts. Oddly enough I look forward to the matches on the C show more than I look forward to the matches announced on Raw. I like how they generally have a little story to tell in them. While the wrestling is good in a lot of the Raw matches, sometimes I feel like it's just move after move and that's it.



Obfuscation said:


> Ignoring the Alicia Fox comment, cool to know there's a Cesaro vs Axel match on the lower tier show. I can be into that.


It's really fun! I like that we have a show where we can see a guy of Zayn/Cesaro tier have an actual match with a guy of Axel's tier.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summer is an anomaly on what you can get, but she has def had her share of sprints I like. Most recently vs Sasha on Smackdown was a good one. She PLANTS Sasha w/a DDT that I still haven't forgotten.

I've watched a couple of Main Events today from these posts and while everything hasn't been necessarily good, I've found some gems. Main Event isn't a lost cause like Superstars has been reduced to (not that the show can't have its fun matches, too. But we all know it's largely a recap program) and can still have a solid C show identity.

*6/7/16:*

Sheamus vs Ryder was the kind of match you like to see on Main Event. While seemingly obvious in result, they still give you the kind of competitive match where it looks like the lower tier guy is actually going to pull out the victory. This was good. It had a similar formula to the last Owens vs Swagger match from Main Event this year. (Dolph was on commentary this entire show; BLURGH. He didn't ruin the match for me, god damn though. It was awful.)

Titus vs Viktor came up next. Solid short outing here. Viktor's leaping knee strike kind of rules. Certain the best thing he got out of this brief singles tenure was the battle vs Swagger on Superstars a month ago, this doesn't fall too much behind. Titus' offense is scary. Dude just pulverizes people in matches. In that good way. Since Sheamus went back to being heel, this is where Titus can thrive as the beastly babyface on the block. Plus he still trash talks people in matches. :mark:

Rusev vs Sin Cara was largely a squash but then it had a completely phony comeback by Sin Cara that was really obnoxious. I have a rule that matches are kind of stupid from the get go after someone assaults an opponent, they let the match start anyways, then the match goes for 8 or more minutes following. It's very exposing unless worked very well. Why wouldn't the guy, or heel rather, finish the match immediately when the opponent is so vulnerable? But no, lets slap on a chinlock in the first minute instead. Dumb. Rusev himself obviously was crisp and committed per usual during both. He's got no problem making his opponents look good even when he's going over.

*7/5/16:*
The Cesaro vs Axel match was def a good time. It was light hearted, and I got a kick out of that instead of everything feeling the same on each show. Cesaro is probably at his peak level in wrestling rn. Doesn't matter if he's having "MOTY" level matches or something entertaining like this, he's just on point in every department. Axel did fine in his role, you can tell he was more on the enhancement role during this, still a solid guy to build a match around. I enjoy his wacky overhead strikes. But Cesaro def took this match to truly shine. He's got the fans loving his stuff. Hard to believe he once used to get crickets or a smattering by audiences. Now he's kind of "there" at that level and just hope WWE realizes that. Oh well. Even if not, he'll still generally be awesome to watch no matter what he does. As a fan, guess that's good enough.

Corbin vs Sin Cara was a nice big vs little sprint. Thought Corbin had some great moments where he'd maul Sin Cara mid air, and Cara himself seemed to up his usual comeback string of moves. The double dive spot was particularly well done w/the way the match went.

Golden Truth vs Ascension wasn't much of anything. I like 3/4th who occupy the match; just the atypical C/D show affair. Or I guess filler RAW match level.

Shame the couple of Rusev matches I caught on these were both bad. The one here was vs Apollo Crews. It was just trading moves junk w/that moron Dolph Ziggler on commentary & a flat finish.

*7/12/16:*

8 man tag was bad. Something you'd see on RAW. All neutered. Didn't help that The Ascension didn't do too well here. I like em, so this is me being bummed that it wasn't clicking. At least Swagger got a rub at the end by cleaning house. Vaudevillains will probably never win a match ever again. Sad face.

Becky vs Fox was crap. Alicia sandbagging the Bexplex spot :lmao I don't think too much of Becky Lynch either.

Sheamus vs Titus happened here and I'm like HOLY SHIT YES. The match is like the rest of their stuff: they hit each other p. fecking hard & it looks like they really want to fight each other. Naturally I enjoyed it a good bit. Finish is terrific. Titus is doing his multiple backbreakers spot in usual "I'm gonna break you in half, dick" fashion, then Sheamus takes his hand and gouges the hell out of Titus' face to escape and plow him w/the Brogue Kick. That's how I like to see 4 minutes used. Sheamus on Main Event has proven to be exactly what I needed today.

The Dudleys/Del Rio vs Cesaro/Usos six man tag did nothing for me. Well, the heels were good. The match had hardly any Cesaro in it which was a shame. Too much Uso idiocy for me to care. Who the hell takes 10 seconds or longer to punch someone b/c they're trying to do a dance move beforehand? Fuck off. Bubba's trash talking in matches will never get old. Can WWE push this guy again?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Summer is an anomaly on what you can get, but she has def had her share of sprints I like. Most recently vs Sasha on Smackdown was a good one. She PLANTS Sasha w/a DDT that I still haven't forgotten.
> 
> I've watched a couple of Main Events today from these posts and while everything hasn't been necessarily good, I've found some gems. Main Event isn't a lost cause like Superstars has been reduced to (not that the show can't have its fun matches, too. But we all know it's largely a recap program) and can still have a solid C show identity.
> 
> ...


- I was pumped when I saw that Summer/Sasha match. By far the most time Summer's been given on main TV ever. I liked their match from Main Event too, I think 5/31. I still think she'd be doing way better in Dana's role right now than Dana (I don't really mind Dana all that much though). I love that DDT and I hope she keeps using it.

- I'm glad you also enjoyed the Swagger/Viktor match from Superstars. I remember one of their encounters being based on Swagger not being able to keep hold of Viktor's ankle. And then Viktor goes for that knee off the second rope for a second time and Swagger catches it and locks in the Patriot Lock. 

- Have you caught the two Swagger/Corbin matches from Superstars? I enjoyed both but I really liked the first one. Corbin has some stiff as fuck elbows and Swagger has a nasty clothesline (basically a clothesline from hell) at one point. I fucking love Swagger.

- I'll have to check out Sheamus/Titus. They had a medium length match on Raw in 2013 that I loved. I think it might have been the first time I realized I liked Titus.

- Bubba is such a fucking asshole and I love it. There was a Dudleyz vs Ryder/Ziggler match on Superstars a month or so ago where he yelled "SIT DOWN FATTY" to a fan as he beat up Ryder. There's a Bubba/Crews match from Main Event in June where I don't think he ever stops talking during it. 

Been loving the main Main Event/Superstars crew this year. The Swagger, Dudleyz, Ryder, Summer, Viktor, Konnor, Breeze crew.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> - I was pumped when I saw that Summer/Sasha match. By far the most time Summer's been given on main TV ever. I liked their match from Main Event too, I think 5/31. I still think she'd be doing way better in Dana's role right now than Dana (I don't really mind Dana all that much though). I love that DDT and I hope she keeps using it.
> 
> - I'm glad you also enjoyed the Swagger/Viktor match from Superstars. I remember one of their encounters being based on Swagger not being able to keep hold of Viktor's ankle. And then Viktor goes for that knee off the second rope for a second time and Swagger catches it and locks in the Patriot Lock.
> 
> ...


I can see the fixation on Dana being something that's just stuck w/her since NXT. For Summer's credit, she's doing what she can while being "passe" to the New Era bit. But as a lower card member of the roster for now, she's filling out things well. Maybe w/the draft she'll find more footing down the line. Can't say I mind either way if she's producing the same level of that she tends to be doing atm. Depth wouldn't hurt for the championship picture, although I get why some are put higher than others. Been generally cool w/Dana too, even if things haven't been quite as memorable.

Yep, that's the Swagger vs Viktor. Not sure if they had another on either Main Event or Superstars, it's possible. As it kept rolling on I was thinking "damn, this is p. snug and effective the whole way through." It's rarer to come up on Superstars matches that like to add in a mild story there. This one had it. Haven't seen Swagger vs Corbin series yet. I'll try my best to go back and see as much of both shows as I can. Swagger is one of the big reasons why I like to, b/c I dig him so much. Good call on the lariat by Swagger. He used it in the 8 man tag from Main Event, caught me off guard. Worthwhile addition. Gives me an excuse to want to think of Stan Hansen when he uses it.

That Sheamus vs Titus match you mentioned is awesome. I'd say only their match from Main Event in two years ago, has it beat. b/c the latter one was GREAT. Like holy crap out of nowhere type great. The one watched from this year finally gave way to the dynamics being switched, and not much changed, in a good way. Except now Sheamus is gonna find a cheap way to get the win, which he did. Dunno how much Titus will suffer from the Vince situation. Hoping he can maintain a solid career path among the draft. He and Swagger are def the two midcard guys I'm always hoping to see sustained year in and year out.

Not that it matters too much in factoring in w/quality, I wished the Dudleys would win more. Sure they're "older" and stuff, but they got plenty of worth left. While they can make matches w/just about anyone, I don't see how that should imply the booking should equate them down to jobber status by the results alone. Ascension, so be it b/c that's the make up of things. Dudleys though? C'mon, WWE. You can let heels win on the lower tier shows too w/o having to be higher on the food chain. IE like a Rusev or Sheamus. At least they're not put off by it, still producing fun performances. Especially Bubba. I know the company knows of his singles success while in TNA. Petty as they may want to be, there's no denying there's something to be used there. Especially if the brand commitments are in tact. Easy upper card heel for a program or two there. Same goes for Baron Corbin.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I can see the fixation on Dana being something that's just stuck w/her since NXT. For Summer's credit, she's doing what she can while being "passe" to the New Era bit. But as a lower card member of the roster for now, she's filling out things well. Maybe w/the draft she'll find more footing down the line. Can't say I mind either way if she's producing the same level of that she tends to be doing atm. Depth wouldn't hurt for the championship picture, although I get why some are put higher than others. Been generally cool w/Dana too, even if things haven't been quite as memorable.
> 
> Yep, that's the Swagger vs Viktor. Not sure if they had another on either Main Event or Superstars, it's possible. As it kept rolling on I was thinking "damn, this is p. snug and effective the whole way through." It's rarer to come up on Superstars matches that like to add in a mild story there. This one had it. Haven't seen Swagger vs Corbin series yet. I'll try my best to go back and see as much of both shows as I can. Swagger is one of the big reasons why I like to, b/c I dig him so much. Good call on the lariat by Swagger. He used it in the 8 man tag from Main Event, caught me off guard. Worthwhile addition. Gives me an excuse to want to think of Stan Hansen when he uses it.
> 
> ...


- I just want to see her get a real feud or a decent length title match. I mean hell, even Cameron got a PPV title match before. Or she can even still mostly lose but get mic time or something. I like that her matches seem to have emotion behind them. She always actually seems like she's playing her character. Something that bothered me about Breezango vs Primo/Epico last week on Superstars is that it seemed like none of them showed any emotion at all. I like Charlotte/Sasha/Bayley/Becky but I'm just worried that they're going to be all we get in the title scene for years to come. 

- I wanna say they had one before that, shortly after Konnor was suspended. I'll have to give it a look. I remember Viktor/Ryder being pretty solid too. Ryder plays a really good sympathetic face. And I'm glad to hear Swagger is still using that clothesline. He does it extremely well. Dude has a great moveset overall and great selling as well. It's funny that for years I could never picture him as a face and then he turns and turns out I like him even more as a face. Those Rusev matches in 2014. :mark:

- I'll have to give both those a look! I'm glad that they at least let Titus have that program for the US title and I hope they're not done with him. The Vince thing was so weird haha, especially since Titus seems like an absolute class act. Wasn't like it was 2006 Orton where he's getting in trouble every week anyway. He always seems to stay fairly over too (same with Swagger, although it might just be the patriotism). 

- It shocked me how quickly the Dudleyz went from being huge returns to weekly losers. I was actually really impressed when they won the blowoff match with The Usos after Mania. Just on accolades alone they're the most credible tag team in WWE so you'd think they'd at least keep them afloat enough to seem threatening and still put over people. If they do get split in the draft, Bubba really could thrive as a main event heel though. Literally just let him be Bully Ray. Hell, D-Von could even just go from being his partner to like his hype man.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm watching some WWECW stuff now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> - I just want to see her get a real feud or a decent length title match. I mean hell, even Cameron got a PPV title match before. Or she can even still mostly lose but get mic time or something. I like that her matches seem to have emotion behind them. She always actually seems like she's playing her character. Something that bothered me about Breezango vs Primo/Epico last week on Superstars is that it seemed like none of them showed any emotion at all. I like Charlotte/Sasha/Bayley/Becky but I'm just worried that they're going to be all we get in the title scene for years to come.
> 
> - I wanna say they had one before that, shortly after Konnor was suspended. I'll have to give it a look. I remember Viktor/Ryder being pretty solid too. Ryder plays a really good sympathetic face. And I'm glad to hear Swagger is still using that clothesline. He does it extremely well. Dude has a great moveset overall and great selling as well. It's funny that for years I could never picture him as a face and then he turns and turns out I like him even more as a face. Those Rusev matches in 2014. :mark:
> 
> ...


Sure, sure. I wouldn't object to see things changed up. One issue I keep saying week in, week out while I watch stuff w/the women's division is their lack of depth. Not necessarily w/the those that they have, but there should be more bodies. Name recognition is irrelevant. Just get more bodies in the division to even things out. Give it some more life that they talk up behind it. I'm saying this while there are two programs currently happening, but it's like yeah, ok, when those end what's next? NXT is kind of the same, although it's a bit interesting how they maintain it better. Then again I'm sure squash matches assist w/that. When Summer is the go to heel to give babyfaces a win these days, it leaves her nowhere to go. Unless she would start winning matches, she would have to start beating Becky Lynch for example. Which atm, feels unfathomable to take place. More roster members in the mix, you can help everyone out. Including the fans. Make it truly a "division" if they're as serious as they sound.

The point about emotion is something that factors in to when I talked about Dudleys still showing desire despite their current roles. When guys w/practically nothing on the horizon are put out there say like Primo/Epico or Tyler Breeze & Fandango, I can't say I'm too surprised to hear about a lack of life in their matches. I don't think that's fair for the fans watching, even if at the same time, what's their incentive, you know? It's a deeper problem among moral within a company, even if the talent should generally always put their best foot forward when working. That's what makes guys like the Social Outcasts work over these four, b/c they're out there playing up their characters. Being what they are to the fun, animated level. Are they ascending the card? No, but they're at least making me enjoy seeing em. Similar to you bringing up Summer's matches despite her current placement.

Ryder is another prime name in regards to passion playing a part. He's always game for whatever. His gimmick since 2011 has been the babyface that's "happy to be there" which isn't necessarily something I think should linger about for too long, even though it has. Anything other than being an underdog babyface though, now that's just not in the cards. So Ryder has at least a decent, fitting typecast for him. Every since the WM shenanigans, he's been used way more frequently in the lower to midcard role. So this is probably the best he's going to get it, which is still better than where he was at from about 2013 to earlier this year. Here's hoping the match vs Rusev at Battleground is a good one. The dynamics are firmly set in place to have the crowd behind him. Plus, there's the fact that he and Mojo Rawley make a good duo too. Kind of surprised that hasn't been utilized on the main roster yet.

Looked up the Swagger vs Viktor series. The Superstars match came first. W/a rematch on Main Event a few weeks later. I'll like to check that one out soon. Swagger is someone who's assimilated nicely to the babyface role. He's got an appeal I think that resonates w/audiences due to his kind of "everyman" approach. The patriotism absolutely aids him where he can't connect in some regards. Not to say he doesn't have personality, we always knew that mic work yada yada wasn't his greatest strength. He's not Jake Roberts out there. He's made that leap though from "i'm not sure about him as a face" to making a p. solid connection w/most. I find him naturally easy to root for. Partialism aside. Having the strong moveset he does is another clear factor in that. I've always loved his selling and knack for taking DISGUSTING blows to the face over the years. Dude is a trooper. Proven to be a company man, even after his mistakes.

The Vince situation confused me too. Saw it happening, then was like "oh Titus is suspended now". Very out of the blue. The fact he got a US title program following it was awesome. Absolutely on board for him making a PPV going for a championship. Against Rusev no less. I probably got the most fulfillment out of the match that made the PPV than others on here, works for me. WWE probably views Titus as a solid ambassador more than someone to achieve great success as an active worker. So his career will probably be ok in regards to working there, just not sure if they'll fully allow Titus to rise up to where he could be.

WWE would be wise to keep the Dudleys together on a brand. Yet let Bubba branch out in a way Kalisto did. D Von as a hype man isn't a bad role, knowing he's got promo chops too. Beauty of the scenario is, you get TV ready tag matches to hype up PPVs w/their retaining as a duo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, apparently Ibushi and Mascarita have signed with WWE, so Nak vs Ibushi Round III (maybe for the NXT Title) is closer than ever. IN A FUCKING WWE RING. Wrap your heads around that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Assuming that's Dorada you're speaking of as the other name. The first name only is a bit of a curveball when reading. 

Craziness. This year sucks for WWE as a whole so far, but don't let anyone tell you it wasn't newsworthy.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

*CWC Week 1*

Metallik/Saez - *****
HoHo/Daivairi ***1/2*
FrenchGuy/Alexander ***1/4*
Ibushi/Maluta - ****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Assuming that's Dorada you're speaking of as the other name. The first name only is a bit of a curveball when reading.
> 
> Craziness. This year sucks for WWE as a whole so far, but don't let anyone tell you it wasn't newsworthy.


Yeah, that's who I meant.

Huh, if you told me a year ago that AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Karl Anderson, Luke Gallows, Kota Ibushi, Mascarita Dorada, Bobby Roode and Austin Aries would all sign with the WWE, I would've thought that there was a new Invasion storyline pitting WWE vs. NJPW and TNA.



Daniel97 said:


> *CWC Week 1*
> 
> Metallik/Saez - *****
> HoHo/Daivairi ***1/2*
> ...


Hoho/Daivari over Alexander/GuyWhoseCountryDidNotHaveAGoodWeekATALL? Would you kindly argument your choice, sire? Would love to hear.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, CM Punk defeated John Cena to win the WWE Championship at Money In The Bank 2011 from the Allstate Arena in Rosemont, Illinois.

- Vic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sounds like Styles and Cena had an epic match at MSG yesterday that went over 35 minutes, unsurprisingly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I bet 3/4th of it was trading finishers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've been going through every show from 2002 on the Network. Holy fuck the Triple H vs Undertaker match from KOTR has gotta be a contender for my least favorite match of all time.

Highlight of the match is literally Earl Hebner taking a small ref bump and legitimately going down for over 10 minutes. And then the roll-up pin to end the match took like 15 seconds to make because Earl does that slow count thing when he's hurt. :lmao

Thank God for Jamie Noble vs Hurricane though, that match was sweet. Also Noble/Nidia are fucking awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is HORRIBLE. Then there's the stupid Rock run in too that makes no sense. :lmao

Hebner is also someone I can't stop hating. What kind of REFEREE has to get his shit in no matter what match he's working? He still does it today, in TNA.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Rock ran in that match for so long that he actually felt like a competitor in it at one point. :lmao

Hebner is like the Joey Crawford or CB Buckner of wrestling. He thinks people paid to watch him ref. Charles Robinson has gotta be my favorite ref. Dude does his job damn well and is goofy as fuck but I'm pretty sure he's just naturally goofy haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should have just put it as a triple threat match from the start, tbf. Then again, next month that was the plan, they switched out Trips for Angle, and it ended up being excellent. So yay? Weird KOTR got the terrible main when Vengeance, a filler show, got the successful one. W/the championship change at that. 2002 was wild, but I dug it a lot.

The Little Naich angle w/Robinson was AWESOME. Dude legit has a hell of a match w/Gorgeous George at Slamboree 99.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Obfuscation said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming that's Dorada you're speaking of as the other name. The first name only is a bit of a curveball when reading.
> ...


Neither match was really memorable but from what I remember I just thought the two in the first match garnered more involvement from the crowd and I actually liked Daivari as a heel where as the two in the other match were forgettable. So to sum up I just enjoyed that match slightly more.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Should have just put it as a triple threat match from the start, tbf. Then again, next month that was the plan, they switched out Trips for Angle, and it ended up being excellent. So yay? Weird KOTR got the terrible main when Vengeance, a filler show, got the successful one. W/the championship change at that. 2002 was wild, but I dug it a lot.
> 
> The Little Naich angle w/Robinson was AWESOME. Dude legit has a hell of a match w/Gorgeous George at Slamboree 99.


2002 has been super fun so far. There's a lot of stuff I forgot about from when I was a kid. Even the same feuds like Mark Henry and Test were fun. Henry doing a bunch of feats of strength and Test constantly doubting him and attacking him after. I'm actually shocked how they've booked Test. He has a win over Triple H and went toe to toe with Lesnar and lasted longer than a lot his previous opponents did.

I'll have to check that out. I've never seen either of them actually wrestle haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And he got a singles match vs Undertaker at SummerSlam during the height of the UnAmericans angle too. Then by November he was babyface & w/Stacy doing lower card stuff. :wtf2 (as I say this while you're only post KOTR...but I'm sure you remembered.)

Test was that guy they kept always wanting to "utilize his potential" and never followed up w/for whatever reasons that came up. The rumor that he was supposed to win the WWF Championship at Survivor Series 99, but they opted for the Big Show run instead. Kept happening during his career till he eventually died. :mj2

More positive note: did you see the Trips vs Lance Storm match from Smackdown yet? That's a good time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That HHH/Storm match is the tits. If Brye's past the halfway point of 2002 he's nearly at where the Goldust/Booker v. Jericho/Christian matches are. Whether you've watched them once or five hundred times, they are the tittiest of all tits. There's a reallllly fun 8-man tag somewhere in there too. I remember being super impressed with Test's bumping in it. Maybe b/c I've never been high on him at all.



I got one match to go before I post full thoughts of Mania 2013. Note that I said "one match" not one _anything else_, because it could very well take me another five months to watch it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Vic Capri said:


> On this day, CM Punk defeated John Cena to win the WWE Championship at Money In The Bank 2011 from the Allstate Arena in Rosemont, Illinois.
> 
> - Vic


Seeing this just makes me think that the best heel in wrestling in the last decade is the WWE itself. We're constantly put in these situations where we feel like it's going to change. People have hope. They get some great moments but at the end it never really changes. Over time we lose hope little by little until the next thing comes along that makes us think there will be real change. 

I'm not even sure if I'm complaining. I think I love that. It lets us get these inspiring moments in wrestling. Punk winning the title here is a great examples. If WWE was always great that win from Punk really wouldn't have been that big of a deal. Bryan winning the title at Wrestlemania 30 isn't that monumental. We don't have these delusions of a whole new WWE when Shane McMahon says he wants to run the WWE.


And on a completely unrelated note WWE announcing has hit another impressive low. Before the start of Ambrose vs. Rollins they said that Ambrose has never defeated Rollins in a match before. Aside from the fact that this just isn't true (I googled Rollins vs. Ambrose fror Raw and there is a video from WWE's youtube channel of Ambrose winning a singles match against him last) they didn't even exclude the fact that Ambrose defeated Rollins FOR THE TITLE last month. That stupidity aside they then plugged the main even for Battleground. And explained how no matter what happens in this match there is a title match in 6 days and the title match has no champions advantage in that match. To their credit I guess I they didn't outright say that the match was pointless?


----------



## RKO 4life (Feb 20, 2013)

WWE is making another Randy Orton dvd. This should be great and LOP said it will have over 20 matches.

Looking forward to this!


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I watched Raw like I do every so often when there's a few things on there that pique my attention and as always it just reminded me why I don't suffer through it. You can add all the talent you want but no talent in the world is saving how horrible and turn-offy the presentation of the show is. In pretty much every segment you have either Steph or Cole/JBL/Saxton and they're just massive turn offs and they ARE the show. There's no I can't be doing with them so I'll skip that part of go make a drink and come back after they're done. If Steph is a turn off then you skip the entire show. And if I was half thinking about watching again next week as an actual viewer and not a "someone said check this match out so here I am 3 months later" then Steph and Shane and the commentary drove me right away. It's probably why no matter who they have on the show ratings are where they are because stars won't drive ratings when the problems are at the very core. I'm actually really interested in what the numbers are for both shows this week because Raw should theoretically do a big number. GMs announced, Bryan and Foley returned, go-home show for Battleground, Raw before the Draft. Oh and Rollins vs Ambrose in a Title match. But I bet at best they have a decent spike that soon returns to the new norm. And if SD doesn't at least do Raw average numbers tonight then it may as well be called a lost cause already because this should really be the highest rated show of the year.

The fuck was up with Shane? Poor guy looked ready to melt. Him and Steph were super annoying. Actually that's not strong enough. A backstage skit with Bryan and Kane with no audio is annoying. They were just abhorrent. Abhorrent is my new favourtie word btw and I just found out that I've spelled it wrong twice in a row here. Just so unlikeable. Steph just would not shut up and is basically begging for a slappin but of course nobody can so you just turn the TV off and go watch someone else somewhere else that doesn't wind you up like that because fuck, our lives are tough enough as is without coming home and winding the day down with 3 hours of Stephanie McMahon acting like that. And it's not a who wants to see bad guys thing. Seth Rollins is a heel and I want to see him get his (well I don't because I don't care but say I is 9 year old Billy from Tampa) but I enjoy watching him be an annoying bad guy. I don't know how anyone can enjoy watching Steph. I've never watched anyone and felt such go away heat before. Shane was horrible too. Just so stupid and unlikeable and front of attention-y. Foley with Steph is beyond daft. I'd say character killer but thankfully Foley is untouchable and anything they do will just be forgotten. But yeah, moronic pairing. First off why would Steph pick Foley when he represents everything she represents the opposite of. And vice versa. I mean they had some weird explanation from Foley and it was just nonsense. And then poor Mick gets completely overshadowed and trumped by Bryan and it's like why on earth did you take this role Mick? Also he came off like a massive dumbass during that main event just shadowing Stephanie while yet again she made herself centre stage and Mick ended up as a deadbeat character who is just Stephanie's shadow and soon to be bitch. Also where is Mean Gene to ask her why she didn't pick Hunter as her GM. Or where the fuck Hunter even is. Part of me thinks this is just a short term angle to replace Foley with a heel GM but then part of me says look at their track record they do dumb things because Vince just tells the writers don't worry about it the audience won't care.

The idea that Raw vs SD is this big rivalry now is daft too. Like Bryan was on about SD beating Raw in the ratings and as fans I spose we want Bryan to succeed because he's Bryan but that's also telling viewers to watch SD and not Raw so Shane and Bryan can stick it to Steph who we all hate. They're literally telling their viewers to stop watching one of their shows so the heel gets hers. The mind boggles. Oh and the idea of Steph and Shane having a GM is also nonsense because they're going to constantly overshadow and undermine them and make Bryan and Foley look like their subordinate bitches.

Zayn/Owens tag was ok but holy shit they've managed to just totally kill Zayn/Owens dry. That's impressive. I was thinking about the Battleground card last night about what I'm interested in on it and I legit forgot all about their match. It's also apparently a normal rules match because okay then. Oh and the new wwe website is absolutely abhorrent. It's like a puzzle finding a show and then finding the matches for the card.

I didn't watch Young/ADR but howling at them paying Del Rio so much to be an enhancement talent for guys like Darren Young.

The whole 12 man tag portion of the show I liked. See not all bad. Enzo has absolutely abhorrent dialogue but manages to make it work which is about as big of a put over as I can think of. Their act is awesome, yada yada yada. I loved Cena of all people playing the straight man during all this and asking them if they can get serious. Howling I was. New Day come out and I'm sitting in the living room on the couch and gyrating along with Big E and I don't feel at all like a mong. Their act is so awesome and the only thing stopping me from saying they should stay together for life is that I really want a good Big E singles run at some point. But that can wait a long long time. Cole said I wonder if New Day will be the same after what happened last week as they came out and did the shtick they do every week, therefore acting exactly the same as they were before. Good observation Cole. I'm being too positive here, time for another rant. The commentary team are so out of touch and uncool. The recently divorced Dad who's hitting on girls half his age trying to drink cocktails and shot at the bar that was the cool hangout 20 years ago isn't even close to the level they're at. Cole said something at some point along the lines "I bet that'll be all over Social Media" and it's like just ugh. Does anyone watch Last Week Tonight with John Oliver? Coooooool *thumbs up*. Exactly that. And again like Steph they ARE the show and there's no getting away from them and no amount of in ring talent are making up for it. Match was good. You just know how they look at Cass and you just know that Roman Reigns: Reloaded is on the cards in 2017/18. Which is a shame because Cass is over in this role and getting better and better and wait that was Roman Reigns in The Shield wasn't it. For all the supposed next level production WWE has Kevin Dunn is really bad at his job. Small sample but also large enough. Cena got a cut off spot and was crawling towards a hot tag and they go to a break. Like what in the hell? They did the same in the main event. The action finally picks up pace and Rollins does the big frog splash for a big near fall and they just go to a break. And then the abhorrent camera effects during the AJ turn on Cena. Holy cow, that legit made me feel queasy.

So wwe.com as I'm scrolling through the results, next to the Baron Corbin write up they have a video of The Lucha Dragons splitting up. As in literally alongside "but when The Lone Wolf attempted to further punish The International Sensation, Kalisto came Sin Cara’s rescue." And no I didn't cause that typo myself, that's legit the quality control and proofreading that exists on wwe.com.

So on Battleground they hype Charlotte/Dana vs Sasha/X and follow that up with Charlotte/Dana vs Sasha/Becky? Um, okay. So Sasha got herself a partner here but now she needs to get another one? I spose Becky already has a match on the PPV but why do something that makes you look dumb and thoughtless to the fans. Because I bet stuff like this happening every hour of every show has driven many fans away because people don't want to watch TV and think they're smarter than the writers of what they're watching. Unless it's "so bad it's good" viewing but Raw is not that. I tried to start watching the match because Sasha but it was bad so I started forwarding and then it ended just as soon as I started doing that anyway. This time next week including the Natalya run in, this will have featured the entire Womens roster for one show. Very potentially. Her partner has to be Bayley right? So that will come across as her playing second fiddle for the next few months no doubt then. Or babyface Nia Jax :mark:

Nothing at all on the tag match. Lana dresses like a skank rather than a business woman now I spose.

I saw the main event starting and checked how long was left and my planner said 45 minutes and I died a little inside. Very nearly just skipped through to the finish and I so wish that I had done. Dull and not a good match. Ambrose is abhorrently bad right now. Just everything about him. Never been huge on him but I just don't see how people can look at his matches right now and think that's someone who is good at his job. Farcical is an apt adjective. If you thought this was getting a clean decisive finish then lol you're a moron and I'm pretty sure I type that after like every PPV. Why the hell do people get invested in these matches when there's such a low chance of a satisfying ending? I mean the actual finish if you go in this direction was decent but non-finish is the norm so it's just groan groan groan. This became all about Steph and Shane again because duh they're more important than you're top heel and the surrogate top babyface champion. Like I said earlier Foley looked like a total bitch as Steph's shadow.

I never knew this but they actually carried this angle over onto the Network and I only realised when there was some file on XWT called Ambrose/Rollins controversy continues and I was like huh? BECAUSE NOBODY TOLD YOU AS RAW WENT OFF TO TUNE INTO THE NETWORK TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Words fail me. Anyway they gave the belt back to Ambrose and called it a Draw and I spose this is how they get 2 Champions and Rollins is the Raw Champ and has to be the #1 pick after tonight. I spose Ambrose has to be the #2 pick for Shane too. Lel. I mean it's better than Bischoff just giving Hunter the Title but it's not far off. Doesn't this also make the Battleground main event seem very redundant now too? 

:cal2*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I really enjoyed Ambrose vs. Rollins, but more so for Rollins. As usual, Rollins brings the best out of Ambrose - when Ambrose is working with someone else, he's just lazy as hell and he almost did the same in this match for me. I used to be a big Ambrose mark, but this Ambrose is a far cry from the 2014 post-split Dean Ambrose. He's just so incredibly lazy in the ring, and he's not as good as Randy Orton to go through the motions and still put on great matches.

They're having a rematch to open Smackdown as well.

Also from Raw, I enjoyed the Jericho/Owens vs. Cesaro/Zayn match and the 12-man tag (the whole segment was great).


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Only now did I watch Maluta/Ibushi, and godDAMN that was some good shit. ***1/4

That Ibushi rules the fuckin' world is well-known already, and he sold like a motherfucker for Maluta, but this kid more than held his own here. Going for a splash so early seemed weird, but Bryan sold it nicely on commentary making it seem like something out of inexperience, so it actually fit well into the story. 

Then Maluta went for some weird-ass dive to the outside and it looked like it REALLY might've hurt, but the guy actually had the wherewhithal to flip once more the moment he felt the tip of his feet touching the apron and managed to (sort of) hit Ibushi *and* save himself from a nasty landing; didn't look pretty, but he still managed to (sort of) hit his target and keep himself safe, so kudos to him :lol

Cool match. Should Maluta sign with WWE right now, he'd instantly become my favourite Samoan there (which isn't saying much, but still)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

After the amount of crap I crammed from WWE today, I needed that rant above. Proper purge of idiocy.

I feel level again and I didn't even have to type anything myself. Yay.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thought the draft lacked a whole lot of excitement. Nothing too interesting in the picks other than Balor being drafted to RAW, American Alpha to Smackdown, and a cruiserweight division returning despite there being literally no one other than Neville & Sin Cara. Looking at the rosters, there's just not that many _fresh_ matchups in store for the future. On RAW we're hopefully getting Lesnar vs. Owens at some point along with Rollins vs. Balor and the eventual Lesnar/Reigns rematch.

I'm fine with Cena and Orton going to Smackdown, but damn could yo give them some different foes? Do not wanna see Cena/Wyatt again and Ziggler can fuck off. At least we've got Orton/AJ to look forward to but idk how that's gonna turn out with Randy as the face. Seems backwards. I do like the idea of separating AJ from Gallows & Anderson, but I'm interested to see how the Club are booked on RAW. Next tag champs? Who knows. 

Strowman by himself on RAW sounds GOD awful. I really wish they would've separated Owens & Zayn. They could really use a break from each other after this Battleground match... but I guess not. I really wish Cesaro would've went to Smackdown too.

Nia Jax, Carmella, Eva Marie, and Alexa Bliss all called up at the same time? My god what women are left in NXT?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That division is going to be made up of Asuka, Bayley, Billie Kay, Peyton Royce, Liv Morgan, whatever the heck Athena's name is, and some possible others who have been enhancement that may or may not be signed. There's bodies down there to still work under the simple format. Some just have to be made into credible names now. That is, if they don't just keep Carmella, Bliss, and Nia all down there for tapings every so often too. Which wouldn't surprise me if they did.

The Cruiserweight bit for RAW is something that I say is obviously going to be added on. Like the roster atm doesn't have much (I don't think Sin Cara is even eligible; may be too heavy) but they'll clearly bring people undrafted into the fold. (Ibushi/Dorada just signed, lets see how they choose to use them) A lot of it goes w/o saying on assumptions, although the problem here is WWE SHOULDN'T have people like me assume all of this. It should be told to us so we have a decent understanding of things. Of course that doesn't happen b/c all of this reeks of short term hogwash.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So this was a massive mistake by the looks of things. I don't watch anyway besides the PPVs and the odd matches but jesus I came out of this with literally no desire to watch either show after this. The show itself was abhorrent and the rosters now look laughable. Stephanie. Oh my sweet jesus Stephanie. She was somehow even worse than the night before. She's treating this like she's the massive demon child and everyone else is locked inside her little dollhouse but Kevin Dunn is actually a genius and scales her down to the size of all her subjects in the dollhouse. ABHORRENT I TELL THE. When she's imitating these cool acts like Sasha and New Day and I'm just like aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh. And her and Mick are best friends and I'm just dead.

Quickie thoughts. I didn't watch any of the matches btw because matches are unimportant at the best of times but especially so here. I actually watched Cesaro/Jericho though because Cesaro like always has good matches but this was actually bad and holy cow Chris Jericho might be the worst worker in the world now because he had a match with Cesaro that I thought was bad. I guess they had another show airing alongside SD and I'm like wtf I can only watch one show at a time.

The top 2 picks were duh and killed a little of the excitement but at least Rollins can brag forever about being the #1 draft pick. 

These are pretty cool visuals off pwtorch.com. Some of the allignments are a bit okay then mate but still


Spoiler: pics
























I mean the depth is just laughable. I remember doing a mock draft a couple of years ago for a TDL debate and I'm confident I managed to come up with two rosters that had plenty of depth and choice of opponents and that was when they had even less talent to pick from.

They put Zayn and Owens on the same show because obviously. So if Zayn is kept away from Owens then he basically has Rollins, Rusev, Sheamus and Strowman to feud with. Assuming Jericho is going and even then they've run that down already. Incredible. 

Picking Balor so high was good but I don't give a shit about Finn Balor.

The NXT call ups were as phony as I figured they'd be. None of the Champions drafted because if you're a Champion in NXT you're developmental for life which sucks for you. Try not to beat Joe I guess Shinsuke. I don't even know what to say about Daniel Bryan not drafting Shinsuke Nakamura. At least come up with a reason for it. I mean it was only 6 picks so you may as well have just debuted them over the coming weeks and kept them out of the draft. They called up a bunch of Women because they had to and still managed to leave Bayley down there. I think it's just incredible how Triple H has created a promotion as a vanity project for himself that does so much damage to the main roster where the money is made that he's created this vanity project for to help him inherit. 

The splitting of the Tag and Womens divisions. Oh baby. Look at the tag teams that American Alpha have to work with. Talk about doomed from the very start. I can't even make a heel team for them to work with. Corbin & Kane? Miz and Del Rio? Yikes. Turn The Usos and you get one feud. Then what? THE ASCENSION? God they're paying the price now for burying so many acts. You can't just make acts like The Ascension and Zack Ryder credible again now because the damage is done and perceptions are set. I've also just noticed that Mojo Rawley got drafted. Words. Befail. Me.

They split AJ and The Club up. Because nats. Maybe they switch AJ for Balor but Raw needs faces. Mind you they need heels too. No idea who New Day work with. Club. Done. Dudleys. Done and buried. Enzo & Cass? Odd. 

Charlotte/Sasha has to last like forever now. What else? Charlotte vs Paige again? Sasha with Nia and Dana? RIP being a Sasha Banks fan. The Womens split may rival drafting Mojo Rawley over Shinsuke Nakamura for dumbest thing done on this draft. Just why would you create two nothing rosters with a 6 month shelf life before literally everything of interest is done.

They have a Cruiserweight Division on Raw now apparently. I'm hoping they do weekly skits where Neville is like fuck yeah Cruiserweight Wrestling and then goes around the locker room trying to find another Cruiserweight to wrestler and they do comedy skits with him trying to get Braun Strowman to cut weight so he can challenge him for his belt. I know they're coming in from the CWC but yikes. Also duh they put Kallisto on SD because why would we want him anywhere near the Cruiserweight Division. 

Carmella didn't even get on the same show as Enzo & Cass. Okaaaaaaaaay.

GIANT BRAUN STROWMAN PUSH INCOMING. BROCK VS BRAUN AT MANIA. 

Bray/Cena and Bray/Ambrose have been done to death so Bray/Orton incoming. And then what? Look out Zack Ryder!!!

Cena has AJ to work with and then he honestly may as well just go away until Mania. Cena vs Miz/Corbin/ADR/Rowan? HAHAHAHA. At least they gave SD Orton and Ambrose to carry the house shows in Cena's absence. 

Ok lets look at the roster and guys who they can build as up bigger stars than they are before. Cesaro? Not happening. Had infinite chances and did you see how low he got drafted on the show he lost to Chris Jericho? Crews? They've done nothing with him and didn't even draft him on the show. I have a hard time buying anyone not drafted on the show going far. That said Strowman didn't go on the show either. Big Show & Kane pushes incoming for sure. Oh god I forgot the Zayn/Owens burial by Kane. I could make a top 10 dumbest things WWE did this week and that might not even crack the top 5. Ziggler push I spose but who still even likes Dolph Ziggler? Sheamus? Titus? Darren Young? Oh lord.

Heath Slater didn't even get drafted. This has amazing skit potential. 

The Ascension got drafted ahead of Apollo Crews. 

They're gonna need to bring in A LOT of talent over the next few months otherwise they're gonna have literally nothing left for anyone after Mania bar another Draft.*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Both of the rosters look like ass. fpalm I can't believe they looked at their rosters and thought "yeah, I think we can split 'em up!"

At least Ambrose and Rollins was better on SD than on Raw, but fuck, I am not looking forward to watching both these shows moving forward...

I know it's scripted, but the whole draft was so illogical. I won't even mention Nakamura, Aries, Joe in NXT, but you take Baron Corbin before someone like Cesaro? Natalya before someone like Sheamus? Why even split the women up? 

The only thing I can look forward to is Harper's return and hopefully seeing Harper & Rowan vs. American Alpha on Smackdown. And I guess Wyatt actually has a chance to hold a title now...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fixation on assuming Joe, Nakamura, or Aries would be drafted as got to stop. Just makes you look like WWE's puppet in assuming only the TOP names would come over, when that was clearly not the case. Mojo Rawley coming over was the least surprising thing of the entire show. I'll go full hyperbolic machine on you guys, b/c really, HOW did nobody see that coming? Hardly laughable when it's just how WWE does business. You can't garner any emotion other than apathy. I don't disagree that some reasoning should have been issued as to "why" some weren't chosen in kayfabe, b/c it absolutely doesn't make sense. But say Regal made a lockdown for certain names that were actually exempt or whatever. (champions, recent big names like Nakamura, Aries, & stalwarts like a Bayley) It could have been somewhat feasible given the situation. 

The rest of it is just as terrible as everyone else has stated. And it's all thanks to their own booking. Doesn't matter who's actually "good" or "bad" these days, when perception/interest is all that actually tends to matter. Finn Balor drafted is obviously a big deal, but I don't care currently until he starts to change my mind otherwise. Meanwhile I'm someone who actually does enjoy The Ascension, but while they're on Smackdown I know they still won't matter worth a damn. Or even if WWE attempts to save them after their main roster burial, how many are going to truly buy it on the heels of what would no doubt be a short term rebuild just to probably face American Alpha and lose? (not to mention the fact that these two teams already worked in NXT for a one off, which Alpha won) Alpha vs Vaudevillains is all I got there for that brand off the top of my head for a few shows. Unless Bray & Rowan start working as a duo semi regularly. But Bray is clearly patterned for the upper card. (or so you hope) Usos working them as babyfaces would be hilarious b/c those guys have a track record of already getting heat from marks as it is. Then turning em heel just for one program. Oh my. The fuckery. They're shitheads so I kind of hope this actually happens b/c I GROAN and hope they get buried anytime they appear anyways.

and Cena is on this brand too. :lmao That alone is just...you're not fooling anyone, WWE.

yay for someone realizing the Slater not being drafted thing has a world of potential for moments following this. I pitched that he tries to find an way into the buildings for both RAW and Smackdown next week, Heenan style. Imagine him outside picketing w/signs. Or sneaking into locker rooms, interrupting matches. If this ends up being something, I'm honestly the most excited about this.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Would it really have taken anything of real value from that draft if WWE had just bundled the Women and established tag teams into two separate bundles, each counting as one pick? The selection process fell completely flat after the few top names had been picked anyway. 

Even if it would have its not like WWE couldn't have done a billion things to make up for those losses, on what turned out to be a horrifically low effort, run of the mill, bore de force. Yeah to hell with having storylines or angles running throughout the night that thread together the theme of the show and create genuine tension or suspense, let's have some awkwardly poor :keys and sprint through the picks in each individual draft segment. 

Think of the simple but effective angles they could have run, such as; heated debates between GM and commissioner over picks, Steph undermining/preventing Foley from making a pick before Shane/Bryan take that pick next causing tension on Raw (play up that heel/face dynamic properly), tactics/bluffing from each side to try and encourage certain picks from the opposition to ensure they get their own picks, portrayals of devastation and plans being ruined after losing certain out on certain choices, etc. You know, make the whole process feel like it's a HUGE moment in deciding the future direction of each show, rather than blase reactions and lowkey pats on the back at best.

Even with the actual wrestlers you could have; kayfabe politicking and negotiating for roster spots, babyfaces begging to be on the same show as their hated rivals, vice versa for cowardly heels, a smug heel being embarrassed as a lower pick after boasting he would be a top 10 pick, firey promos campaigning for selection, etc. Nah lets pass on all of those little details that make up the bigger picture for the same repeated ad nauseum cold pointless tv matches that are the norm. I mean, if they HAD to split up a tag team or faction, why not run a match at the start of the show where the winners are immune from being split up and the losers are forced to go seperate ways? You know, a tv match with actual stakes with a guarantee of enforcement (remember them?). That's so easy to book that even a bum scratching simpleton such as myself could muster up the concept, but WWE's creative is so low energy these days that that seems like a great idea by comparison.

I mean, the whole point of this brand split was to boost Smackdown's ratings short and long term, due to pressure from the USA Network. You wouldn't think it after watching that drivel. There was really no reason to watch the show. Google the draft results and there's your show in a minute. If that's a case of start as you mean to go on then there's even less reason to watch either show, especially now that both have ridiculously diminished rosters in terms of depth in quite a few vital areas due to absolutely moronic planning.

On a brighter note, the Heath Slater thing angle coming out if this is perfect material for him if he's allowed to run with it properly. A situation like that was absolutely tailor made for him. That's how awful WWE is now. They make you cling on to the hope of tomfoolery from a geek (albeit GREAT) heel jobber, because there's not much else going on.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@seabs , just wanted to say that I love your writing style. Even if I disagree with 50% of what you say, I always look forward to and enjoy your posts.

Something about them is just so easily digestible. Just breezy and covers every base, and I get exactly what you mean & where you're coming from even with a drive-by style of approaching the specifics. That's very hard to pull off.

Haven't been in here for forever, but you just reminded me that I've been wanting to say this to you for forever.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Battleground 2014 took place from the Times Forum in Tampa, Florida.

- Vic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I look forward to reliving the magic of The Wyatts vs. The Usos and living the magic (for the first night) of The Wyatts vs. American Alpha on the Smackdown brand.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWE Cruiserweight Classic Episode 2*


After the terribly disappointing and dull draft, I can only hope the CWC can give me the same kind of enjoyment as it did last week, because I need it.


*Tajiri Vs Damien Slater*

TAJIRI :mark:.

KICKS :mark:.

TAJIRI WINS :mark:.

ALL THE STARS :mark:.

Ok, I'll talk about the match for real. Tajiri looked fantastic. He's the veteran here and is out to show Slater that he's still as good as ever, and he does such a wonderful job of countering Slater who is supposed to be a "technical" wrestler at every turn. Tajiri works over the arm and produces a couple of real slick counters from it any time Slater tries to gain control. 

Slater tries to KICK Tajiri to get him away from the arm... which is never a good idea because Tajiri will kick the FUCK out of you and you will get hurt.

While Slater might not be a master of kicking like Tajiri, but he does use some nice kicks of his own, especially to the leg of Tajiri in hopes of preventing getting kicked some more.

Sadly, Tajiri's leg is not damaged nearly enough and the BUZZSAW KICK to the head puts Slater away and TAJIRI ADVANCES :mark:.

Very fun match, and Slater looked great too. Tajiri is still the man.

*Rating: ***1/4*


Tajiri will face Grand Metalik in the next round. I hope Tajiri kicks his face off .


*T.J. Perkins Vs Da Mack*

Was about to say "what kind of name is Da Mack?" and then I noticed he was German. 

THE URBAN GERMAN :lmao.

Alex Wright name dropped :lmao.

Lots of counters and flipping around to counter things, and TJP applies a bunch of different submissions.

Da Mack is apparently too cool to sell a fucking KICK TO THE HEAD. Try doing that shit with Tajiri...

Perkins wins with a submission. Was mainly a Perkins showcase here. Da Mack didn't do much for me. Though tbf to him, I'm not entirely sure if he wasn't selling a lot of stuff because he's shit, or if a lot of TJP's stuff requires not being sold so he can pull together a sequence of moves... either way I wasn't overly impressed with either man.

*Rating: ***



*Mustafa Ali Vs Lince Dorado*

Mustafa Ali? Someone clearly likes Disney and boxing...

Dorado's mask looks stupid as hell with those teeth.

So is Ali's main form of offence a forward roll? Cos like, he does a billion of them here.

Damn, Ali just went head first into the mat. He might have gotten hurt there, but seemingly he's ok to continue so that's good.

SPRINGBOARD C4? Yeah ok, that was awesome.

Kick out? Fuck you.

Match ends with a Shooting Star Press from Dorado. I mean yeah it was probably the best looking SSP I've seen but that won the match over a Springboard C4? GTFO.

Didn't care for much here. 

*Rating: **



*Akira Tozawa Vs Kenneth Johnson*

Heard the name Tozawa before. That's about it. Kenneth Johnson has the name and look of a generic CAW.

Johnson was trained by MR HUGHES :lmao.

Meanwhile, Tozawa trained with FUNAKI.

First good part of this match takes about 5 minutes to get to, and happens during a back and forth chop battle. Tozawa looks to be losing the battle, so he fakes a chop and then decks Johnson in the side of the head :lmao.

TOZAWA STRETCHING JOHNSON~!

Big rolling elbow to the face and... Johnson ignores it completely to hit a dropkick. No selling big strikes is a big theme this week apparently... except in the first match.

STOP NO SELLING ELBOWS TO THE FACE. Please.

Couple of big German suplexes and Tozawa wins.

More here for me to like than the previous match... but only just. Far too much no selling shit so they can come back and hit a move of their own. Fuck off with that shit please.

*Rating: *1/2*


Sadly, not nearly as fun as last week. Last week had 2 standout matches and 1 fun match. This week has 1 standout match and 3 "meh" matches.

​


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Sami Zayn vs. Samoa Joe - NXT Championship No. 1 Contender's Match: WWE NXT, February 17, 2016

https://giant.gfycat.com/ZanyQuarrelsomeJanenschia.webm


I've been on a WWE hiatus, what were the thoughts on this match?​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I personally didn't care for any of the Joe/Zayn matches. I thought they were extremely slow and clunky. NXT had a problem in the first few months of the year where ALL of their big matches started out at a snail-like pace with a large use of rest holds, whether it was Balor/Crews, Joe/Zayn, Neville/Balor, etc. I didn't like the 3 way with Joe/Zayn/Corbin either. It's a shame.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

What were the ratings for Brock/Taker HIAC 2002, 2015 and Summerslam match? I'm trying to access the thread from that time, it's not letting me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The draft has managed to kill a lot of my interest in Battleground this Sunday. The main event should still be fun, but after seeing Ambrose/Rollins on back-to-back nights it's not gonna feel fresh. Roman being there now just feels random. Legit gonna LOL if he wins and wouldn't be surprised if we get some screwy finish that allows them to create a new World Title for the other show.

Thought I was gonna get to see the actual blowoff (at least for a short term period) between Owens & Zayn but now it seem like just another notch in the story since they're still on the same show. New Day/Wyatts seems pointless now and if the Wyatts do win, who cares? New Day will apparently be champs forever. Team Cena vs. The Club may be the match I'm most looking forward to.

Is Sasha gonna bring in Bayley for her partner? Nikki Bella? Hope Darren Young beats Miz just for the hell of it. Cesaro couldn't do it, so why not Daren Young instead? :lol Rusev better fucking beat Zack Ryder. He can just team with Mojo or something.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*That one you linked wasn't very good but the 2/3 match was excellent and probably the 2nd best WWE match this year behind Zayn/Nakamura.*



RatedR10 said:


> Sounds like Styles and Cena had an epic match at MSG yesterday that went over 35 minutes, unsurprisingly.


*It was good, bit below the level of their PPV match. Nothing must see though.*



Corey said:


> The draft has managed to kill a lot of my interest in Battleground this Sunday. The main event should still be fun, but after seeing Ambrose/Rollins on back-to-back nights it's not gonna feel fresh. Roman being there now just feels random. Legit gonna LOL if he wins and wouldn't be surprised if we get some screwy finish that allows them to create a new World Title for the other show.
> 
> Thought I was gonna get to see the actual blowoff (at least for a short term period) between Owens & Zayn but now it seem like just another notch in the story since they're still on the same show. New Day/Wyatts seems pointless now and if the Wyatts do win, who cares? New Day will apparently be champs forever. Team Cena vs. The Club may be the match I'm most looking forward to.
> 
> Is Sasha gonna bring in Bayley for her partner? Nikki Bella? Hope Darren Young beats Miz just for the hell of it. Cesaro couldn't do it, so why not Daren Young instead? :lol Rusev better fucking beat Zack Ryder. He can just team with Mojo or something.


*I think the Draft has probably made the show a bit more predictable but that was always likely. The Club losing now seems obvious because Cena needs a win and The Club gain nothing from a win now. Miz has to win otherwise SD is left with no midcard Title. That's assuming Rusev wins but if Rusev loses to Ryder then all bets are off. New Day surely win as they're staying together and The Wyatts aren't unless they decide to have Strowman just go full on rampage mode. Zayn/Owens is up in there but I assume Zayn wins because it's easier for Owens to recover from. Sasha obviously wins. Not expecting her partner to be Bayley so when it's Nikki and Reigns wins the belt back #CancelWWENetwork :thumbsup. Main event will probably have a dodgy finish because. *


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first Zayn vs Joe match was really good. (the one in that bigger area, not Full Sail). Found the 2/3 falls match was excruciatingly dull.

Is there a Nikki Bella rumor going around that she'll be Sasha's partner? 'kin hell. Howling.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Vengeance 2002 took place from the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan.

- Vic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CWC Episode 2 was fun, again, but NOWHERE near as good as the 1st episode. Shame, but still fun. RATINGZ~:

Tajiri/HeathSandow - ***1/4
Perkins/Mack - **
Ali/Dorado - **
Tozawa/Johnson - *1/2

Tajiri/Slater was really good. Didn't like it as much as Ibushi/Maluta or even Petiot/Alexander, since I think those told their respective stories in a more fluid way, but overall, I loved the smart approach that both men brought, w/veteran Tajiri outsmarting underdog Slater and working the arm like a champ, while Slater would go for Tajiri's legs. Lots of KICKZ. KICKZ BABY. KICKZ. Tajiri/Metalik should be awesome.

Perkins/Mack was basically the Hoho/Daivari of TJ Perkins, only that, for once, the guy that's supposed to look good actually did. The story was about how Perkins was too fast and would constantly mess Mack's game, so Mack's questionable selling makes sense in a way, but it still doesn't excuse it. That being said, Perkins looked good for what he was supposed to look like, so it's mostly all fine.

Ali/Dorado was a glorified spotfest that served to put over Lince Dorado. Not as good a spotfest as Metalik/Saez last week, since that one went just about the right lenght for that type of match, and impressed me more as a whole (and Saez looked better than Ali imo). Ali was a bit clunky besides the more high octane offense. Lince did look pretty good, though. The Springboard Inverted Rana was the highlight of the night imo (not the big C4, unlike some people will say... the C4 is just a dumb move anyway). I didn't really care much for this, but at the end of the day, it served its purpose. Stupid FS fans chanting "This is awesome" was grating, though.

Tozawa/Johnson was, sadly, the worst MOTN, I felt. It was going in a pretty good direction at 1st, w/the idea of Johnson being a fighter and playing Tozawa's game to try to surprise everywhere and upset the much more famous DGUSA vet, and I have to say that the chop sequence was awesome, but beyond that, it was just a dumb no-sell festival, not even one that was visually impressive like the few other acceptable spotfests we've seen in the CWC so far (like Metalik/Saez or even Ali/Dorado, that was far more visually impressive). I've heard good things about Tozawa, which only made this 1st impression of his for me even suckier. Ugh.

Oh well, next week I get ZSJ and Kendrick to enjoy.







Oh, there was a Draft too. WHO FUCKING CARES.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Battleground tonight. Can the shield triple threat live up to the hype? Personally think they may have a 3 way at Summerslam too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Zayn vs. Owens was just... Wow.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sami Zayn is the WWE WOTY so far. No question about that.

EDIT: Kinda surprised at the dislike for Johnson vs. Tozawa. I thought it told a wonderful story of the inexperienced wrestler vs. the veteran who is a favorite for the tournament. Johnson looked so good in that match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Some things I didn't like sure: but in the big picture hard to argue a standing O, the little details through that story and the veteran switch to change the ring story on the fly to Sami's shoulder/arm making something organic out of a botch. Very nice match all in all really checked the boxes it needed to.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Diva Tag - **1/2
New Day/Wyatts - ***1/4
Rusev/Ryder - **1/4
Zayn/Owens - ****
Becky/Natalya - *
Miz/Young - DUD
Shield Triple Threat - ***1/2

Another good PPV from WWE. That makes it three in a row which makes up for the average 4 shows at the start of the year. Really disappointed with Ambrose winning and the anti climax ending but the WWE title being on SD is a good thing. Wonder who Dean will face at Summerslam. Roman/Rollins, Lesnar/Orton & Cena/AJ all probably going to happen.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Triple Threat ***3/4
- Every time I watch Reigns, I feel he grows on me. Catalyst for why I enjoyed this match. Of course Rollins was the architect of it but Reigns creates the dynamics that has made all of his matches since Wrestlemania memorable. Imo, he (Reigns) has been my WotY so far but Rollins should likely take over by the year-end. At least I hope so. If Ambrose was in better form, this could likely be a classic. He doesn't have the main event "lustre" that the other two radiate, his work isn't very clean and he lacks the physicality that the other two possess in spades. But he's just started his main event run so I hope he continues to progress in the right steps.
As for the match, they did very well to keep the story on them rather than the not-as-important brand seperation. Rollins always finds an extra gear to keep workers like Ambrose on his level and the dynamic of Reigns was great, and how he should be used.

Owens vs Zayn ***3/4
- I thought the beginning went very poorly and it translated to the crowd. Thanks to their synergy that they could deliver such a turn-around as the ending melted together so well.

Club vs Cena and goons ***1/4
- I really didn't like the first "tornado" sequence. Sloppy exceution and it cut a hot-tag that should've brewed for longer. Enzo and Cass' strengths lie in that "Ricky Morton is getting fucked up for 20 minutes" but when it comes to the save, I just have no interest in watching someone as green as Cass clean house. Cena's routine also kills momentum in a tag match. But there was enough good material on show.

Rest was aight.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Bye bye Raw (except October 6, when Raw returns to Chile :lol)
Hello Smackdown!

Very good PPV, probably the best of 2016. KO/SZ was great and Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns was very entertaining. Glad to see that Roman lost clean and Dean retained his title clean as fuck.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

​
FaBreeze/Usos: **1/2
Women's tag: **3/4
Wyatts/New Day: **3/4
Rusev/Ryder: **1/4
Owens/Zayn: ****3/4
Natalya/Becky: **
Miz/Young: *1/4
Six-man tag: ***1/2
Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns: ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Had a really good time at Battleground. Thought the show was strong as a whole but left scratching my head at some of the booking.

Lemme first say Breezango/Usos on the preshow was WAY more fun than anyone could've imagined and I was way too happy see Fabreeze get the win. :lol Awesome.

BAYLEY! Cool moment, good match. Sasha better win the belt at Summerslam.

Definitely enjoyed the Shield/New Day tag. Strowman is fucking MONSTROUS and him throwing Kofi around was wonderful. The Bray/Xavier stuff was good and the crowd ate it up. Good match and glad to see Wyatt get a win. Now let's get New Day to actually defend the belts sometime please.

Rusev/Ryder was nothing outside of that barricade spot. Nothing else to note and Mojo Rawley is shit. Zayn gonna feud with Rusev now for the U.S. Title? Hope so.

Owens/Zayn was an incredible experience. Thought it started off slow but that botch ended up actually HELPING the match with its storytelling and improv armwork (that Zayn sold very well). The finish felt really emotional and that it would actually end this feud... for now.  Whole finishing stretch was crazy too. ****+

Why the hell did Natalya win? Does Becky EVER win anything???

People that were chanting 'this is boring' during Miz/Young were dumb fucks. I actually thought the match was solid for a while. Darren Young has such an orthodox offensive style where he stays so close to his opponent at all times (maybe like Backlund?). I thought it was cool until the dumb finish. What are we trying to do here? Protect Young? He's obviously not getting a rematch.

Team Cena vs. The Club was FUN. That Enzo mic work was just insane. Match was wild and entertaining outside of that weird segment where Enzo and Gallows were just walking around staring at each other. :lol Enzo & Cass are so motherfucking over right now it's ridiculous.

Loved the Highlight Reel segment with Orton. Entertaining and funny stuff. Another cool moment to be a part of.

Main Event had a great atmosphere and was a lot of fun, but I think we all know they're capable of more. Didn't feel like a very long match but the action never slowed and they did some nifty stuff. Probably *** 3/4 but it felt like they were holding back for something down the line. Legit SHOCKED at the finish though. Really did not see Ambrose retaining ad I'm not sure what he does at Summerslam. 3 way with Cena & AJ? No idea. Don't put him against Wyatt again please. That's about all he's got to work with.

@IT'S VADER TIME looking forward to hearing your thoughts sometime too. Hope you had a good time. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*SAMI ZAYN*

FUCK

Actual emotion pouring out of me again. God dammit, this guy. The best.

Both six man tags were fun too. Rest was nothing. The Bayley one off seems odd in retrospect, but it makes sure they didn't have to start up a Nia Jax angle before Sasha gets the championship. So, I guess I can "get" that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, Miz w/the *EYES WIDE SHUT* reference too. Holy crap that was _incredible_.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

One of my favorite steel cage matches of all time. Way better than their rematch at Extreme Rules 2010.





> Why the hell did Natalya win? Does Becky EVER win anything???


Because she put over Charlotte for the past 3 months.

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

"putting over" Charlotte had nothing to do w/it. Natalya just turned heel. So if you want that to die immediately, then she'd lose. But Becky can just as easily beat her later on instead of wasting things right off the bat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zayn/Owens -






























Edit: bah, smileys centring and normal images not just ruined that...

Edit 2: FUCK YOU. I'll fix it myself...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I fixed it :cal2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I preferred the wonky calflakes, thank you very much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CALFLAKES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna edit this into the OP rn. (seriously) 

:cal2


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Look away now but Seabs thought a modern day WWE PPV was good with a match he'd call great.

Usos/Fabreeze was short but kinda fun. Usos are 100% turning heel now because an odd clean loss always means a turn is coming. WWE have a big problem if they're trying to rebuild acts like Fandango and Ryder after all these years of telling us they're massive geeks because them guys going over just does damage to the act they beat rather than good for them.

BAYLEY pop was great. I'm being deadly serious when I say that I can't watch Bayley's entrance without getting emotional. JBL saying his SOURCES were saying this was a one time favour deal during the actual match killed it for a second but I guess it is what it is. There's no logic to it. Match was good although mostly just because Sasha and Bayley are both great. I thought they missed out big time not having the opening portion of this being the babyfaces running wild and the heels just stoogeing their asses off for them. Think Clash 17. NOT RICKY STEAMBOAT! But WWE always do this and they always go straight to a heat segment without giving babyfaces time to run wild and get over beforehand but jesus this match was just crying out for it. Monthly commentary rant but god they just kill everything that's somewhat cool. JBL and Cole and even generic Saxton talking about Bayley and Sasha is just massively ugh and kills them cold until you focus on something else. They're shouting out things like HUG LIFE trying to sound hip and they just need to go because they're so integral to the product and so out of touch. And it's not even because they're old. JR and Lance Russell were old but they never had this problem. Also Cole said in the next match "flying a swot" or something like that and I died and then he came back after and said it right and it somehow became even funnier.

Speaking of, I absolutely lost my shit at Xavier's "what" after Big E's Bone Crusher line. Pretty much took me the whole of The Wyatts' entrance to stop laughing. Match was decent. New Day are staying together and are the Champs but The Wyatts are splitting so guess who went over. I guess the idea is Bray is the biggest star there so he goes over but you could have Big E pin Rowan and it does nothing to Bray. Big E's belly to belly on Rowan looked amazing. He really should just save the spear through the ropes for like max 3 times a year but that said I have to admit this streak he has of doing it and landing on his head without getting hurt is starting to get very impressive. Tone back on it though please. Woods shtick during the match was good. Pretty sure Bray and Woods had a match on Smackdown where he was fine though so yeah.

Rusev/Ryder felt like a nothing extended squash match. I was kinda distracted for the start of it but it didn't feel as though I missed anything. Weird how they very much teases Rusev/Mojo after but now they're on opposite brands so idk. 

Zayn/Owens I thought was great. Most I've liked a WWE match since I'm thinking Reigns/Lesnar. AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO KICK OUT OF FINISHERS FOR IT TO BE GREAT AND EXCITING!!! The botch looked potentially scary but they reacted to it so well. To Cole's credit even he did bringing up Sami's shoulder surgery. Thought this was the best Zayn has looked on the main roster. Probably Owens too but I thought Zayn was the standout of the two. It was kinda weird how given the feud they were having a normal match but it worked. Up until the botch I wasn't really into and was ready to label it as massively underwhelming but then it kept on getting better and better right up to the very end which is really rare these days when they usually peak before the finish and take the shine off a match at the end. Finish itself was great. Whole match was great. Sami's kinda lowkey having a fantastic year with the 2/3 Joe match, the Nakamura match, the 4 way and now this. Or maybe just lowkey to me.

I thought Natalya/Becky was really good. I was kinda distracted for the start of but then I started really paying attention because Natalya was playing an actual heel with an actual workover segment. Becky's selling was about as good as there's been in WWE this year. Doing the running charge into the corner but hobbling. ily. I'm excited for them having another match now. 

Young/Miz was kinda terrible. Just a total mess. Match itself was super flat. Nothing in the work and the crowd just did not care. Backlund shenanigans were good because of Bob but the way they did the finish was indicative of the match, just a flat mess. These two are also on separate shows now. Odd. I guess Miz needed to retain the Title because SD needs the belt but they didn't want Young to lose so soon but really a distraction roll up loss would do no damage to him.

The Club 6 man was really flat to begin with but got better as it went on. Probably a tad on the letdown side of things though. Enzo's promo was quite something. Like with the other 6 man I don't get why Cena needed to pin AJ when they have Gallows and Anderson there who have been nothing but fall guys their entire run. Frankly, it doesn't really matter because they're still where they were before and AJ won't really be hurt by it but it was odd because it was so avoidable. 

I am not watching a Jericho/Orton talking segment.

Shield 3 way wasn't very good imo. Didn't have high hopes for it either. Better idea on paper than in reality. Whole match felt like a bunch of cold nothingness until it got hotter for the last 5 or so minutes due to the sense of any of these 3 could win. Ambrose has pinned Reigns and Rollins clean this week and Reigns has lost clean to Rollins and Ambrose in his last 2 matches. Despite that though I still don't see Ambrose a real top guy because of everything that has preceded this. That and he fucking sucks right now. *


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

The Jericho/Orton segment was good. Jericho is beyond great. Orton taking a shot at Brock failing the drug test had people :done. I kinda wonder if Orton did that himself or with instruction from Vince.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Orton lol.

On any other occasion I'd be serious with a 'People in glass houses' comment but in this case it worked and at least started the feud. Plus with them both going way back, it was a good line. I guess it also their way of acknowledging what happened, if Vince wrote the line or if it was Orton's own work.

Just gotta see now when Heyman, and indeed Lesnar, will be on Raw.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Kinda surprised at the dislike for Johnson vs. Tozawa. I thought it told a wonderful story of the inexperienced wrestler vs. the veteran who is a favorite for the tournament. Johnson looked so good in that match.


To your point, I did also like the storytelling of the match and the way they started on the mat, but Johnson looked GOD awful to me. He's lanky and has terrible balance and that botch off the ropes looked ugly. I really have no idea why they picked the guy other than his nice story overcoming the speech impediment. I thought Tozawa was actually the one that looked great trying to keep everything in tact late in the match. That snap german was beautiful.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Women's tag: **
Newday/Wyatts: ***1/2
Ryder/Rusev: ***
Zayn/Owens: ****3/4
Natalya/Lynch: *1/2
Young/Miz: half a star (pointless mess of a match)
Cenaandfriends/BulletClub: ***
Shield Triple Threat: ****

This is the best PPV we've had in a while. The Natalya/Lynch and IC title matches were honestly the only true low points of the show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WWE official promo video for the match.

@Obfuscation

Lucky I have those WCW PPV cards saved from the OP, eh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I asked you about it in the chatbox before I realized you logged off. :walphtf (meanwhile PM's & VM's are around but late night laziness)

Thought about leaving a link to cagematch(dot net)'s WCW page so it can still be of quick access for those who want it, but the original post was slowing down this place A LOT w/all the text, so I made a snap decision. But it oddly made me want to watch a WCW PPV, therefore accomplishing something at the same time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I asked you about it in the chatbox before I realized you logged off. :walphtf (meanwhile PM's & VM's are around but late night laziness)
> 
> Thought about leaving a link to cagematch(dot net)'s WCW page so it can still be of quick access for those who want it, but the original post was slowing down this place A LOT w/all the text, so I made a snap decision. But it oddly made me want to watch a WCW PPV, therefore accomplishing something at the same time.


No probs. I can always re-add it and put it in spoiler tags, if that'l help. I should have done that originally tbh.

Or host the list elsewhere and just include a link. EDIT; I have just done this and edited the OP.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yo, that Rusev/Cesaro/Balor/Owens fatal-four way was *insert fire emoji*.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The effort these two put in was immense. Not sure what will be left for ppv but damn. :clap: :clap:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This might be the best Raw of the 3-hour era ever. It's insane. 

Balor/Owens/Cesaro/Rusev - ****
Sheamus/Reigns/Jericho/Zayn - ***1/2
Banks/Charlotte - ***3/4

and now Reigns/Balor, plus absolutely no spots in the show where I've been bored out of my mind like previous Raws, or thinking "god, this show is going by so slow." Squash matches to enhance talents, great commentary (thank you based Corey) and smart, solid booking throughout the whole show.

EDIT: WHAT A FUCKING SHOW :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Owens/Balor/Cesaro/Rusev - *** 1/2 (give me a Cesaro/Rusev U.S. Title feud pleas)
Reigns/Zayn/Jericho/Sheamus - *** 1/4 (damn those Zayn nearfalls!)
Charlotte/Sasha - *** 1/2 (bonus points just for the sheer effort, they nearly KILLED themselves)
Reigns/Balor - *** 3/4 (man I loved this dynamic and the work from both guys)

Outside of the Pittsburgh crowd being trash all night and not appreciating what they were seeing, this was basically a PPV edition of Monday Night RAW. Idk how long this will last until the breath of fresh air wears off but WOW. Talk about a fucking push for Balor. I hope overexposure doesn't kick in but this match with Rollins should be an absolute barnburner. Amazing. Can't believe they did it. Looks like they're both punishing Reigns for his suspension and creating a redemption story down the line at the same time. Idk if he even gets on the Summerslam card, honestly. Who knows. 

I honestly hope they got some good ratings for tonight because they really deserved it. Great stuff.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Corey said:


> Owens/Balor/Cesaro/Rusev - *** 1/2 (give me a Cesaro/Rusev U.S. Title feud pleas)
> Reigns/Zayn/Jericho/Sheamus - *** 1/4 (damn those Zayn nearfalls!)
> Charlotte/Sasha - *** 1/2 (bonus points just for the sheer effort, they nearly KILLED themselves)
> Reigns/Balor - *** 3/4 (man I loved this dynamic and the work from both guys)
> ...


 Posted this in the raw thread and I will here. So nice to see a very good on the whole Raw that hits a home run for once. That was EASILY the best Raw I recall since April of 2014. Something might've slipped my mind but I don't recall a Raw where I didn't glance at the time more than once and a multitidue of things got accomplished since then. Very satisfying but they need to keep following up on that formula right there. Cut the comedy segments down to one and replace that with some story enhancement promos/setups and you would really have something again. 

Sure, we won't get these stakes/three solid matches every Raw: but follow this formula to keep checking the boxes/building people up and their identity and momentum will replenish with patience. This isolated won't pop a rating but a few months of this consistently should. That is what is positive is that it wasn't just the stakes that make this an automatic isolated instance; this general formula WILL WORK IF VINCE STICKS TO IT.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Up to Smackdown now to follow up on this momentum. As a sucker for Battle Royals, I'd love to see one tomorrow night to figure out Dean's next challenger since the tournament idea was already doen tonight. If they can continue to re-establish Wyatt as being a big deal, I could get behind the idea of those two squaring off again as long as it doesn't involve some ridiculously stupid finish when we get there. Either that or maybe they run the 'ol both feet hit the floor at the same time trick with AJ & Cena to set up a 3-way. Those three seem like the only legitimate options.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Great Raw tonight. First Fatal Four Way and women's title match were great. That women's title match especially was the best I've seen in a long time. Second Four Way was good as well. Balor/Reigns was a good showcase match for Balor, but tbh the match felt like it was in first gear all throughout. Genuinely enjoyed the little mini-match ups in that first four way, and loved the Owens/Rusev stuff when they were teaming up. Rusev/Cesaro works for me for the US Title, can't think of anything else. Segments overall throughout the show were solid, the feel of the show felt great with the new setup, and we have local jobbers back!

Now come on Smackdown, do your part and make this the best week as a whole of WWE in a long time.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Fuck I'm damn near temoted to give women's title
Match ***** am I tripping? I am
Drunk and high but I felt that was a staple
For women's professional wrestling.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Fatal 4 Way I - ***1/2
Fatal 4 Way II - ***1/4
Charlotte/Sasha - ***1/2
Roman/Balor - ***

WOW. Roman heel turn at Summerslam.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

*First Raw I've watched in a long while. I'd give the first F4 *** 3/4 and the second *** 1/2, but I enjoyed both of them. The Women's match was also very solid, I'd give it *** 1/2, great effort there. The main event gets a ****, I really enjoyed it as well. Maybe I'm just a little too excited to be watching again, but they all did seem pretty darn good.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The things I've been reading... a good Raw episode? Reigns losing clean? Rollins/Bálor, a match that's never happened before and has history given both men's significance to NXT, at SummerSlam? I haven't seen Raw in forever, but if all of that is true, I think Hell just froze over 8*D

The question is, though: what will they book as SD's title match? Cause no plz to Ambrose vs. Wyatt for the billionth time just to make room for Cena vs. Styles: Cena Gets His Win Back (Again) Edition. Triple Threat w/Dean, Cena and AJ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dolph fucking Ziggler, via superkick. What a joke. 6 pack challenge was good from what I caught (my god that AA nearfall GOT ME) but jesus I don't like the decision. Literally ANYONE else in that match outside of Apollo Crews would've been a better choice.

Shelton Benjamin is coming back to Smackdown. That's cool news. I hope he's a heel to help the alignment on that show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bunch of RAW thoughts:



Spoiler: raw



So pardon general WWE business decisions that I'm left questioning, I thought the show did well by its debut show. Especially in comparison to Smackdown which was so damn bad.

LOL @ Universal Championship. Shame they split the main belt. This championship feels so fake, phony, and forced just right off the bat that I legit can't care for it. Only Sami Zayn made me want to go "oh shit, I hope he wins it" then when he didn't make it to the finals I was like ok, back to not caring.

I don't like the idea of Rollins not having to compete for the shot. Steph is friends w/him again in kayfabe b/c they made her return to being a full blown bitch and it's so lazy. Makes the result come SummerSlam feel so one sided too. 

I'm gonna say my negative bit first, the move on. The Balor thing. Yeesh. He's over sure, but I just have to be that guy that lets this linger. All those dense folk claiming Reigns was, or is, shoved down your throat, etc. And then it took him all the time w/the Shield until they were split to finally be in any sort of championship picture. Meanwhile Finn Balor is put on RAW, and in his first night, pins RUSEV and ROMAN REIGNS clean, straight up, is set to work a high billed match at SUMMERSLAM, vs SETH ROLLINS, for an intended MAIN EVENT CHAMPIONSHIP. So yeah. Clearly favoritism means nobody gives a shit, and that's too bad, but seriously, this is really nutty when you break it down on what he's been given. The make it worse, for me anyways, it was all so obvious as the sky is blue. Like if Reigns would have won, holy cow I'd be stunned. WWE transparent as always. (I called this show from start to finish, so fuck it, but other than that, matches were generally quite good)

The good point to the Balor stuff was, that I swear this is the best he looked in an overall scope since really being w/the company. The brief main event vs Reigns was solid, and his four way was really good. w/his efforts included. So, yeah, that was def cool to see it work out well. Do I care? No, not really atm. Maybe down the line as it gets closer, it's possible. I just doubt it b/c I've been more than vocal how I haven't cared for the guy in a long while. I say it's p. obvious he's going to beat Rollins too.

The other four way w/Zayn was good, too. Jericho was awful being all old and shit, and it had an awkward start, but it leveled out. Some of those Zayn nearfalls AHHHHHHHH. Entire match did a p. good job w/the drama at the end, even w/Reigns in the middle of it. I guess w/how much he's been losing lately, it made me think there MAY have been a tiny chance Zayn could have won this. b/c I knew Jericho or Sheamus didn't honestly stand a chance. They were the right names to be put in the mix, though. Curious as to what Zayn will get for SummerSlam. I pondered a random match vs Reigns. Not sure why. Or how. And I don't see Reigns going heel at all. This is simply the problem w/putting Balor so quickly in this spot, it leaves others hanging out there w/how thin things currently seem to be. I don't fear the Owens rematch...but both currently are up in the air.

BRAUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. Holy crap I lost it when I heard that music. It's perfect. Just have the giant guy shout his name in giant fashion. Reverse Chokeslam, good grief. Died at interviewing that weird looking jobber before the match. Hope that's a thing.

Nia Jax is awesome and glad she got to demolish someone herself. That second leg drop she hit to win, whew.

Sasha vs Charlotte happening and having the title change I saw a mile away. Great moment, good match. All that good stuff. But not saving it for the PPV that is legit right around the corner only cements how worthless their PPVs are now. They're seriously WCW. Said it before, now it just feels all but confirmed. Watch the TV b/c that's where the real things happen, PPV just seem like filler points w/maybe one notable moment. The chemistry between these two is so good. Start was a tad shaky, wasn't sure where it was going. Once they smoothed it out (I say that loosely, b/c this match was rough af. The whole night was rather hard hitting, I have to say.) it def clicked. So many of these women's matches I'm sitting there hating life b/c they're awful and the talent is shit, but these two just click. That's another match between em where it was largely different overall to keep it fresh. Just too bad the rematch on the PPV is gonna have to suffer behind the 8 ball in the sense that it's not going to have "the moment" of a change there. Couldn't they have built up the idea that Charlotte has never defeated Sasha a little? Or Charlotte worms a victory here on RAW then you build Sasha back up to take the title at Summerslam? You know, SOMETHING to do in actually making the idea of buying a PPV a logical investment. Part of me wonders if they'll troll and have Charlotte retain at SummerSlam just for the hell of it. Play a mild hot potato before Sasha wins it back. I dunno. I've come to expect WWE to think like that. Sasha's dive in this going full Lita vs Trish, too. YIKES. The Eddie spot to get Dana booted. OMG. You want to make babies w/a woman like that. Not nearly the same in scope, but yeah, I def have a Goldberg vs Hogan mindset here. It worked, I enjoyed it, although you have to think how much more beneficial it could have been on a bigger stage.

Golden Truth doing the Pokemon Go thing wasn't annoying as a topical fixation. Not sure about them interrupting an Enzo and Cass match, then again, not like it hurt anything, so that's ok. Goldust is a trooper to engage in the comedy. He tends to humor me, but I'm greedy and would like him to have some great matches instead a la 2013. The Colons actually made a RAW. Huh. Enzo and Cass almost being an afterthought here worried me. Kept saying "hour three is almost up, where are they?" No idea what they'll do for Summerslam. Looks to be nothing as The Club vs New Day is locked. As expected. New Day getting rekt two nights in a row after being announced as the longest tag champs, though. I'm always favorable to babyfaces working from below, the timing is just off as far as the presentation is concerned.

What else happened. VERY minimal amount of Steph. Lord have mercy, that was good. I doubt this sticks. One night at least.

Mr. Irrelevant for Curtis Axel. That already works. He can be the other Heath Slater.

Enjoyed the look of the show. New intro, entrance, and logo were slick. Dug seeing the RAW team back on the stage a la to the days when JR, King, and Coach were there. RED ropes too. These little things helped the show out. Honestly, it did. Assists it in feeling like a change is actually in place.




Smackdown thoughts:



Spoiler: SD



Good grief was this a night and day difference from RAW, in only bad ways. This didn't feel like much of a change or fresh start at all. The presentation kind of changed, but it didn't really, still managed to seem like the same ol blue context of the B show that has been around the past few years. JBL trying to overshadow Mauro shouting his psychobabble was worse than I imagined. The camera views used at was incredibly obtuse and off putting. That rotating overhead crane shot of sorts. I guess that was their way of trying to make it look different to RAW. It's unneeded.

Opening segment was whatever. Not bad, just going through the motions. I'm really against these rosters all hanging out together things. You can easily say the names involved w/o having the heels and faces right next to each other. When Baron stood right by Dolph, ugh. Sure Dolph gawked at him, but c'mon. A few weeks ago these two legit couldn't stop hitting each other. Or Cena and Styles that close w/o any tension. Bray walking up to Ambrose and smiling was great tho. That's so his personality. This should be Bray's show, seriously.

Battle royal REALLY showed the lack of depth on this roster. WOW at how tiny it is atm, and the names that were expected to be credible for a WWE Championship shot. This lies all on WWE's shoulders. More frequent transparency, Crews winning shouldn't surprise anyone. Ryder's botch was weird. Boy, was he over. They're in Buffalo, that probably meant why, still. Mojo seemed to be p. over too. Once he got eliminated, crowd was p. vocal about not liking that. This match had its moments, like any battle royal tends to have.

SHELTON BENJAMIN. Felt like WWE has been wanting to bring him back ever since they released him in 2010. Well, here it is. If he's as good as he was in 2013 w/New Japan, this can work. More amazed this went completely under my radar. Casually thinking he's still in NOAH like nothing has changed. The inevitable "do something w/American Alpha" comments are no doubt filling up on this place.

Becky vs Natalya again. LOL. No surprise, it was shit. Becky wins, Natalya's win from two days ago already means nothing. So what, are these dames not going to talk about fighting for a championship at all? Like PLEASE do not give them their own, but really, talking about making SD "their" place when nothing is on the line? No mention of Sasha? Hilarious. Bliss was cool b/c she's a good personality, surprisingly got goosebumps when Carmella's music hit (guess that means I quite enjoy her) and then THINGS PEAKED when Eva Marie came out w/that glorious overlong introduction. Yay. (the second best part of the night) Never let Becky near a mic either. Fuck, she's basically just bleh everywhere.

Miz not in the battle royal. Oh right, b/c he's got to do a Miz TV w/Orton. I didn't watch it. Watched the match. Wished I didn't. Good grief what a bunch of dogshit. Orton looks terrible, the milking of things was...strange. Miz won't be ruined by this or anything, but between this junk and the finish to the match vs Young on PPV, ouch. Was the shoulder thing a work or is Orton just a hothead per usual? I honestly don't know. This was baaaaaaaaad.

AMERICAN ALPHA. Next week. Fuck off :lmao They were probably what most fans wanted to see on this show, and it wasn't given.

HEATH SLATER. :mark: I went wild. Crowd reaction really well to him. This was great. Please let it continue. Was wondering who was gonna lay him out. RHYNO. Good for him that his return has him set for the main roster. Excited just to see what match ups he'll get. Best part of Smackdown was this segment. Bar none. The "surprises" are the only things that seemed to come off well. Curious to know who else will be added to the roster for expansion.

Main event wasn't much of anything. Styles kicks out of an FU on Smackdown now. That move is raped of all credibility, it's absurd. Bray not winning this is crushing. Dolph winning this is legit hilarious as fuck and to make it worse, I totally picked him to do it. Smackdown confirmed jobber town w/this match. Who does WWE think they can fool w/this being a WWE Championship match at SummerSlam of all shows? Legit a few weeks ago Baron Corbin was owning Dolph Ziggler in a midcard program. Now he's pinning AJ Styles to win contendership for (as far as name value goes) "THE" championship in the company. Bad enough the guy holding it is Ambrose, who's nothing more than a glorified geek himself these days. This screams "well we don't want this match to overshadow Brock and Balor, so lets make it Dolph". My brother's reaction to this was gold. He had a big meltdown. If I wasn't so apathetic, I probably would have, but wow. Hilarious farcical turn of events. Building people up doesn't matter anymore. Just throw it together and expect your fanbase to wear a smile like it is all hunky dory. Cena vs Styles II is a lock for the PPV by all thoughts, that alone already overshadows the championship match from the same brand. Sad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Shelton coming back is good news. I mean I could never see him again and not care, but if WWE are open to bringing people back it means my pipe dream of the Chris Masters "15 minute match a week" push is closer to being less pipey.

Done with Mania 2013. I'll post full thoughts when there's nothing for anybody to discuss, since current WWE seems to have people talking right now. I've considered actually trying to keep up to join in the "fun," but I wouldn't even know where to start. It's taken me forever to watch one full WrestleMania from three years ago. I am actually beyond repair at this point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just watch the stuff w/Sami Zayn.

and I mentioned Chris Masters tonight too w/all these names coming back. :cozy (along w/some other long-shots but just b/c I'm greedy)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

How is Luke Gallows even doing? He was always one of the guys I wanted back but I've not heard a word about him since he actually returned. Oh fuck I'll just come out and admit I'm not even 100% sure he's been in the company at all this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I enjoyed the match he had w/Reigns, even if it wasn't must see or anything. But it was cool. There's been some tags and whatnot, but mostly he's been an afterthought b/c that's how poorly used he & Anderson have been since showing up. Hoping that changes now that Styles is over on Smackdown and they'll do their own thing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler LOOOOOOL
Ambrose vs Ziggler as the WWE Title match LOOOOOOOOOOOL

I like Dean and all but he definitely lost his golden touch of 2014 many whiles ago, and Ziggler went full retard even longer than that. At least Bray would've probably provided a good match/performance.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This Summerslam card looks like one of those fantasy cards someone online would make up. 

Lesnar vs. Orton
Rollins vs. Balor
Ambrose vs. Ziggler

Can't imagine anyone would think this was reasonably possible just a few weeks ago.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, and out of those three, I'm only excited for Rollins/Bálor, and I don't even really care much about Finn tbh, it's just because it's the one of the three that's almost guaranteed to be AT LEAST good  Lesnar/Orton will be mindless Suplexes and by the motions selling by Randall Viper All-Star, and Ambrose/Ziggler will be wannabe indy dogshit cause ZIGGLERSGOTTAPUTONDAWORKRATE~.

If I have to be pumped up for SummerSlam (which, given how I'll be watching it since it's fucking SummerSlam, of course I'll watch it), it'll be because of the undercard. Rusev/Cesaro, Sasha/Charlotte and a potential Reigns/Zayn/Owens combo all sound sweet enough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So long, current wrestling. I'll still watch RR and WM because they are RR and WM, but everything else? Feck off.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

lol, Ziggler. It's pretty evident that they view Ambrose the same way they did Punk back when he was champ but Punk put on better matches and promos.

Smackdown's roster depth is... yikes. That show was not good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ziggler unkout 

Thought my disdain for him couldn't get any higher. Then he gets put into the SS title match.

Dear, o, dear.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't go around claiming Rollins vs Balor to be a lock to be any good either. It may be a display of smooth looking offense on paper, that's about it. And yet it is the only moderately decent match signed. If only b/c I love Rollins per usual to "care" in that fashion. Well, until Sasha vs Charlotte is officially locked down. And of course that won't get high billing when it actually is good enough to. Go figure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, take solace in that at least the SS weekend will still provide NXT Takeover: Back To Brooklyn, which should be awesome, mostly thanks to the two ME matches of


Spoiler: TAKEOVER



Joe/Nakamura and Asuka/Bayley II

Also looking forward to Alpha/Authors, and the rest could be good but I'm keeping my expectations low.


Not expecting Brooklyn to destroy SS the same way as last year, nor do I expect a Dallas vs. WM 32 type destruction, but still.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

^^ That first match 

:BAM Thank fuck.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Joe/Nakamura :mark: yes pls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I would say "NO SPOILERS" but it's extremely obvious that match is going to happen and holy shit I absolutely cannot wait for it. 

I mean, wow. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Spoiler: NXT



Are The Revival defending against Gargano & Ciampa at Brooklyn? Honestly didn't even know Alpha vs. Authors of Pain was happening. I thought they already had that match on NXT (or at least taped it).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For god sake if that fucking match happens. The Revival are the best tag team in WWE, but not miracle workers. Screw it, idc if the match would even be "good" by carry job standards. (already doubt it b/c their TV match sucked) The idea of that match is just utterly repugnant and leaves me UGHHHHHHHH as much as Dean vs Dolph does. Only worse b/c it wastes the Revival, people I care about.

(but seriously now, lets keep these spoiler tagged unless actually announced on TV. This isn't quite as obvious to everyone as what the main event will be.)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My apologies. I didn't even know if anyone cared enough about NXT's weekly product to be worth a spoiler tag in here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm probably the only one, even if I'm now two weeks behind. :evil

I still at least like to work w/maybe a surprise here or there, tho. Keep some fun in it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Strong episode of the Cruiserweight Classic. A definite upgrade over last week.

Sabre Jr. vs. Dux was solid, but I just get more and more annoyed with Sabre every time I watch him. I don't like his facials, I think his selling (or lack of trying to do so) is poor, and while all of his submissions look effortless, he doesn't even make it seem like he's trying (which I know means the same thing but hopefully you can get what I'm trying to say). He just gets beaten down and then flips around and he's in this fancy submission like nothing ever happened to him. Meh, Dux didn't deserve to be booed. 

Legitimately enjoyed GULAK vs. the Bollywood Guy (Sihra or something? idk). GULAK is so damn good and they made everything feel real or believable. The quick superplex off the top and dragon sleeper finish were really nice.

Nese vs. Bennett wasn't bad either despite Bennett clearly being less experienced and outworked. Wonderful showcase for Nese, who will have no problem at all getting himself over if they signed him. He looks like the American version of Neville.

Who in the HELL is Raul Mendoza!? Holy shit that was one hell of a showcase against Kendrick from someone I've never even seen or heard of. He got over quicker than anyone on this show so far who isn't named Kota Ibushi. Definitely my favorite match to this point. The cunning vet Kendrick outsmarting the younger guy in the end was a neat story too. GREAT match. *** 1/2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

dat NXT title match :rollins4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For those who are willing to read through spoiler tags:


Spoiler: TAKEOVER



yes, Revival/Gargano & Ciampa is set for Takeover as well.

I do kinda dig Gargano and his personality (HATE Ciampa tho), and I've enjoyed some of the tags they've had (vs. American Alpha and some of the Dusty Tag Tourney stuff comes to mind), but yeah, this really comes down to how well will the Revival handle the fuckers.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was going to upload this, but found it already on YT;


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-3/


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

The Batman said:


> Was going to upload this, but found it already on YT;


*"FULL MATCH" and then not even the full match :no:

The one you have is full btw from a better angle. *


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Full match:








Corey said:


> Who in the HELL is Raul Mendoza!? Holy shit that was one hell of a showcase against Kendrick from someone I've never even seen or heard of. He got over quicker than anyone on this show so far who isn't named Kota Ibushi. Definitely my favorite match to this point. The cunning vet Kendrick outsmarting the younger guy in the end was a neat story too. GREAT match. *** 1/2


He went by the name Jinzo/Ronnie Mendoza in Mexico. Used rarely between 2009-2014 in AAA, but had a bit of a sporadic appearance in Lucha Elite this year. He's a DTU guy, and got a short gig over in NOAH thanks to Super Crazy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

seabs said:


> *"FULL MATCH" and then not even the full match :no:
> 
> The one you have is full btw from a better angle. *


(Y)

Posted that from my phone so didn't really take much notice lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched Battleground (most of what I wanted to see again) on the Network:

Women's Tag - ** 1/2
Wyatts vs. New Day - ***
Owens vs. Zayn - **** 1/4
Team Cena vs. The Club - *** 1/2
Shield Triple Threat - *** 3/4 (some of the camera angles were awful, but the finish still legit shocks me)

Really good PPV. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BUTTLOAD OF RASSLIN THOUGHTS (aka three different paragraphs):

NXT 7/20/16



Spoiler: .



American Alpha vs Authors of Pain was legit awesome. Jordan's dive :mark: The bumps these two are willing to take, even on weekly TV, incredible. Makes all their matches exciting to see. AoP are scary bruisers, fan of how they got a lot of double team moves in their arsenal. Was worried this was going to be booked lame w/the pre match beatdown, but letting Alpha regroup before the bell, then get their own revenge was MUCH better, considering it didn't tarnish the win for AoP. They're monsters, no matter how great Alpha are, they should have eaten the loss here to sell AoP was a credible threat. All was accomplished. 

Bayley vs Nia Jax III was awesome, too. Nia busting out the JACKHAMMER. I love this woman. Easily the most back and forth match they've had yet. Both performances tending to equal each other out. (opposed to Bayley's AMAZING comeback in the first match, or Nia outworking a mediocre Bayley in the second to make that one must see) 

Joe vs Rhyno was fine, if largely b/c it was a squash for Joe. Thought he left it looking real good. Would say "wow this does Rhyno nothing" but luckily I caught this after I know he's now on the main roster again, so getting owned by the NXT Champion totally works as his farewell. Torn on the Joe vs Nakamura match, as far as booking goes. No way do I want Joe to lose the championship already. But I'm not against that Nakamura moment if he does win, too. I can easily wait till another Takeover for that, and would prefer Joe to dominate some more. What better way for Nakamura to suffer his first defeat than by the guy who's kicking everyone's ass, ya know? I can't wait for that match. Safe to say this year's main event won't be overshadowed like last year's as far as on paper goes. Nakamura's rise is THE thing people are wanting to see w/NXT today.




NXT 7/27/16



Spoiler: .



This week's episode was a fun exposure show for a lot of cats. 

I still want either Buddy Murphy or Wesley Blake to actually get a chance to be more than enhancement for a change, but I can't complain about their usage on here. Nakamura vs Blake was the usual entertaining TV Naka match. Ibushi vs Murphy was interesting if out of something I thought I'd never see. I don't object to it being p. obvious that Ibushi is going to win the CWC, although I do kind of chuckle at WWE not even making it a quiet issues by already showcasing Ibushi (and signing him to a contract) on something other than the weekly tournament show. THAT KICK upside Murphy's head, yeeeeeeeesh. Murphy got talked up post match, thought that was cool. Corey Graves still sucks b/c when the match started Tom lobbed him a softball to put over the heel "not sweating Ibushi" and then he goes and insults Murphy for it. When he's supposed to be the heel commentator. UGH. 

Billie Kay vs Santana was nothing, but at least they're moving quick on filling up spots for the new women's division. Billie's big boot to win the match was GREAT. 

No Way Jose's promo I liked a lot. Good delivery, believable aggression. Thanks to the past two weeks, this went from random thingy to make Aries heel, into a decently developed grudge among the two. I'm down w/NXT showing some wiggle room in using homegrown guys in some solid spots along w/the studs from elsewhere. Jose vs Aries is easily going to make Takeover: Brooklyn, so good for him. 

TMDK had another nice showing. The guys they were working vs, oh man. They picked em up from the local indie dollar store, b/c wow. I don't advocate showing someone down your throat, especially in no time unless they're a different sensation, but yeah, I'm absolutely on board w/TMDK being in Gargano/Ciampa's spot over the latter jobber twits. I can't believe that's probably going to be the tag team championship match for Brooklyn. Double UGH. Revival hasn't beaten them yet, so dear god let that be the one bit of hope I have to cling to in letting them retain.



CWC Week Three:



Spoiler: .



ZSJ vs Dux was good. Figured it would have been on paper, didn't fall short of what it could be. Danielson calling matches w/guys that are of a similar "type" that he is just shows how much fun he's having out there. Too bad he doesn't do commentary w/Mauro on Smackdown (minus JBL) instead of being an on air personality. But I guess that wouldn't get us HUGE pops any time his music hits week after week, so that matters too. I was bummed Dux got paired vs ZSJ in the first round, b/c we all know Zack is going FAR. I've enjoyed Dux for some years now, he's good & one of the names I'd like to see get a chance out of this Cruiserweight division thingy. Dunno if he will or won't out of this, but winning a match and getting a second would have really helped his cause. I understand why they gave ZSJ a good opponent to showcase, though. Just a bummer another guy I like already had to be out.

Gulak vs Sihra didn't click at all. You can tell the timing between the two was off. Sihra did that ankle thingy w/the body scissors and Danielson loses his shit. That was the highlight. Gulak won, he's up against ZSJ in the next round. Filler towards what we anticipated. Idk why Gulak puts a mask on as Soldier Ant and I'm MUCH more of a fan of his than when he doesn't have it on. I mean, I like him yeah, but some nights he works for me and others I'm sitting on my hands. I guess the answer here is stories & characters, which have been the thick of it for The Colony over the years. When he's Gulak there's nothing but the idea of "only" wrestling. Not much else.

Holy shit this Anthony Bennett guy is even worse than Hoho Lun. Fuck. That was embarrassing. Imagine doing all of those vignettes, and feeling excited at the chance only to shit the bed THIS badly. Like not even being able to stand up for the moment post match where the ref raising the opponents hand. He had to see that sitting down hurt in the corner. Eeeesh. Dead @ his HORRENDOUS leaping pansy clotheslines. Nese felt like he was wrestling himself the entire match. Then the geek gets knocked out or gassed before the finish and it only made things much more awkward. I like Nese a lot. But I hope if anything moves forwards w/WWE, they'll make him tone his shit down and zero in on him being someone they can do something w/. Worst match of the CWC by an obvious mile.

Kendrick vs Mendoza was awesome. Probably my favorite match from the tournament yet. That's how you make a name for yourself when nobody knows it. Match legit started out w/Kendrick having all the cheers, then by the end, crowd was wanting Mendoza to take the upset. I knew Mendoza prior to this working under the name Jinzo, but I don't recall him ever looking this good. So damn, this caught me by surprise. Kendrick working ROUGH and mean was great, too. Just like damn, these two guys were dying for a win here. Really upped the stakes. Especially since most of these I'm having an easy watch w/, but it's all p. cavalier in the first round. Knowing who will win most matches, audience feeling the same. This one flipped it on its head. The crowd getting hyped for the Coast to Coast was a hell of a sight. Mendoza looked great, Kendrick being a jerk was a nice surprise, all around heck of a good time. I see no reason why Mendoza isn't put in the Cruiserweight division after this. Seriously.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Drew Gulak is Soldier Ant!? FUCK. I legitimately did not know that. :lol


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


> Drew Gulak is Soldier Ant!? FUCK. I legitimately did not know that. :lol


This is quite shocking for me too. I honestly had no idea, but that's absolutely HILARIOUS :lmao

Edit: That Raul Mendoza, holy shit. Had never seen this guy before, and what a fucking introduction that was. Loved to see the crowd mark out to that Coast to Coast, because I sure as hell did too. And salty, cheating little cunt Kendrick desperate to prove he can still beat all of these kids is absolutely fucking great. Even his look screams "past his prime and desperate to get back in the spotlight". He knows his 37-year old ass can't compete with these guys' pretty little corkscrew moonsaults and 630 splashes and whatever the fuck, so he'll just cheat and kick the shit out of them. Love it. ***1/2+


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I wonder if Hayley would be more quizzical if he knew that Mr Personality Vacuum, Tracy Williams, was Silver Ant. It really is amazing that a mask can do so much for guys. Anyway, I've been off this site for a while. Here's a little present for you:


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

That match had to be sick. wens2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> I wonder if Hayley would be more quizzical if he knew that Mr Personality Vacuum, Tracy Williams, was Silver Ant. It really is amazing that a mask can do so much for guys. Anyway, I've been off this site for a while. Here's a little present for you:


Didn't know they had one in Japan too, really enjoyed the Honolulu match. Grabbing this too.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Mendoza/Kendrick was a great little match. Kendrick should be on SD or at least NXT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> I wonder if Hayley would be more quizzical if he knew that Mr Personality Vacuum, Tracy Williams, was Silver Ant. It really is amazing that a mask can do so much for guys. Anyway, I've been off this site for a while. Here's a little present for you:


Son of a bitch. :lmao 

I kept trying to figure out who Silver Ant was, then I come to realize I don't like him w/o the mask. What a world we're living in.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

Just came across a reddit post which featured all of Zigglers 4* or more matches. Only 1 was a singles match, the rest where multiman matches.



> 4.5 stars
> MITB 2014: Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Seth Rollins (Rollins won it)
> Survivor Series 2014: Dolph Ziggler, Erick Rowan, John Cena, Ryback & The Big Show vs. Kane, Luke Harper, Mark Henry, Rusev & Seth Rollins (Ziggler sole survivor)
> 4.25 stars
> ...



Balor is another whose record I looked up today, he has only once managed to get a 4.5 star match from Meltzer. That too was more than 3 years ago in a triple threat match featuring Ibushi and Low Ki.

In his NXT run he has managed 4* or more with none of them being higher than 4.25* (Neville, KO x2)


----------



## THE HAITCH (May 18, 2016)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

Because marks think that KICKS = WORKRATE.

:trips2


----------



## ThugaThugaBaby (Jul 11, 2016)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

Who the fuck cares about match ratings from soemone who is long irrelevant.


----------



## -Sambo Italiano- (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

People are generous with the 4 stars. It just means they enjoyed it and it'll probably make their top 50 MOTY. 

I get that you're trying to expose a bias but your not exactly the most objective poster on the boards. Have fun mining the internet for things that justify your crusade.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

Hadn't even noticed people rating Ziggler in the ring for years. 

Regardless..... it's almost like people are capable of forming their own opinions beyond Meltzer's, shocking I know!


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*



BehindYou said:


> Hadn't even noticed people rating Ziggler in the ring for years.
> 
> Regardless..... it's almost like people are capable of forming their own opinions beyond Meltzer's, shocking I know!


 Meltzer ratings are all we have to compare or measure match quality objectively (somewhat).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

None of the matches on that list are 4 four stars. Ziggler singles matches I'd rank that high are Bragging Rights '10 w/ Bryan, Raw after WM31 w/ Bryan, SummerSlam '09 w/ Mysterio, and the double turn concussion angle @ Payback '13 w/ Del Rio. His performance at Survivor Series '14 stands out. 

Finn's had some decent - good stuff in NXT but I can't think of a singles match from his in NXT I'd rank that highly. I like his work with Owens, Joe, and Nakamura but I wouldn't label it _great_. 

Main point is some people think highly of these two men's abilities. I just don't see them quite at that level consistently but they do have potential. I'll give them a shot to impress me in their upcoming SummerSlam main events. I want to see if they will become main stays at the top of the card and if they will put on these 4+ star performances on a frequent basis.


*Also moved this discussion to the Match Ratings thread.*


----------



## THREE AIN'T ENOUGH (Feb 7, 2016)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*

You do know matches being rated using star ratings is very much subjective, right?

Anyway, I'd say Ziggler's matches with Cena at TLC '12, Harper at TLC '14, Edge at the Royal Rumble, Del Rio at Payback all 4 stars and above. He might have had matches with Cesaro, Kofi and Bryan that were high quality too, I just can't remember when those matches took place at the moment.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Why are Ziggler and Balor rated so highly by smarks for their in ring work?*



BehindYou said:


> Hadn't even noticed people rating Ziggler in the ring for years.
> 
> Regardless..... *it's almost like people are capable of forming their own opinions beyond Meltzer's, shocking I know*!


So shocking!

Reigns vs Orton at SummerSlam 2014 was an instant classic **** not a merely **1/2 borefest. No, not at all.

Who cares what the guy think, look up the lengths of the matches, heck many great matches don't even get rated *** by Meltzer ( Mariposa/Sexy No Mas 2016 MOTYC, Edge/Foley vs Funk/Dreamer 2006 MOTY too)

Ziggler doesn't get as much as time as the main eventers, but I can watch his match vs Bryan from the SD Gauntlet last year and appreciate his talent. The guy is athletic, can mat wrestling, solid and doesn't botch, he takes risk, has a good move-set, and he's shown that he can brawl very well too.
Balor the same, and Balor's execution is excellent, his mannerism are great, he can do it all in the ring too. Athletic, strong, fast , technical..
Sure there are guys like Neville who beat him at almost everything, or AJ, and you got guys like Zayn excelling at everything.

No one's claiming these two are BITW discussion, but they are very good to great wrestlers. Ziggler hasn't been given much chance to put on classics, but he always delivers, same for Balor. I'll consider these walking ***1/2 consistent guys to be much better than the other who are shit on a weekly basis and can shine in a choreographed 25min match at some PPV.

You don't have to do everything, you can be like Kalisto and excel and what you do and be considered great for example.

Best in E Today ( no order)
Zayn
Cesaro
AJ
Rollins
KO
Neville
ADR
Nakamura
Aries
Joe
Kalisto
Chad Gable
Orton/Ziggler/Balor/Sheamus
Becky/Asuka

Even guys like New Day ( Kofi mainly), Swagger, and Russev can be called great if given the opportunity ( Swagger's match with Christian at Backlash 09 was brilliant)


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

I don't know or care about those stars but I do know that Ziggler had amazing matches against the likes of Daniel Bryan (remember that champ vs champ match?), CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus and Luke Harper (that infamous TLC match). I know the names on that list are best of the best but that doesn't change the fact that guy is able to hang with them. He may have - at this point - overused moveset and lackluster matches but in his best, he is the go to guy to have a stellar matches in any PPV.

As for Balor, I am not even going to mention his matches but as a AJ Styles fan I'm sure you know that, to be in NJPW for a such a long time as a successful foreigner you have to have a certain amount of talent.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Named half the roster in his list but not big match John. jfc

Ziggler has value on the roster. Sells well, works hard. But after several pushes, there is a reason why he has never maintained the push longer than a few months. When the spotlight is on him, he has never stood up and made the company believe in him. His best work is done when he wants attention. When that comes, has never convinced management to keep him in that spot.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really liked Rollins/Zayn from RAW tonight. At first there was no point to care (like many RAW matches) but they woke the crowd up and had a really fun match. Thought the start and end to RAW was great, but there really wasn't anything in between at all. Henry going back to 2013 with his promo was a joy. Rusev has quietly had a bunch of title defenses since he won the belt.

Not sure how I feel about Reigns/Rusev at Summerslam. It's obviously gonna be a good match and I assume Reigns will win, but putting him in that position just pushes Owens, Zayn, & Cesaro down even more and possibly off the card as a whole. Cesaro is being wasted more than any other guy on this roster atm. It's awful. Why he's not on Smackdown I honestly don't know.

Jinder Mahal coming back to literally waste a roster spot is garbage. Titus & Darren feuding is dumb (how many heels do we really need on RAW?). I was behind D-Young less than 2 weeks ago and now I couldn't care less about the guy, all because of the booking.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*They let Young lose to Titus like that but had to do that shitshow at Battleground with The Miz even thought that was the end of their program. Huh? Reigns/Rusev is a genuine MOTN contender to Sasha/Charlotte. Should be great. Cesaro should be furious that he's somehow still just a midcard guy on Raw when if he was on SD he'd be the perfect guy to have the spot Ziggler has right now that would actually get people excited and wouldn't produce the garbage Ziggler/Ambrose will. Plus I'm all for another round of just how great is Cesaro to see what he musters up with Ambrose.*

*Terry Gordy vs Steve Williams (Texas Death Match) (2/6/87)*
_So duh I ended up getting Classics. They actually give you a free week trial which I was not aware of so I might even actually end up binging the majority of what I want to watch this week because I really don't have anything better to do. I was disappointed in this truth be told. The final chapter of it is great and feels like a brilliant climax to one hell of a war but really the chapters before that weren't a war and I never got invested in anything until that final chapter. If you see the closing minutes of it and the bloodbath it turned into you'd think it was some massive heated war of a brawl but truth be told it never really was. I never got the sense that these two despised each other. Up until the final chapter it just really felt like nothing much. But. Then they get to that final chapter and it's great by then and makes me really sad they didn't hit this height for everything prior because if they had then this would be hot shit. Gordy's bladejob is crazy nutso but with a bladejob like that you also kinda want a great spot that leads to it and there really wasn't. The Williams lifts Gordy up at 2 spot was awesome, especially after Gordy had done it to Williams earlier. Finish is booked superbly well. The race to the feet. Sunshine chucking water at Gordy to wake up him. Sunshine trying to calmly reason with the ref before realising she's shit outta luck and then just throwing a strop. The reversal on the heel wins via distraction finish. Just an awesome finish but ultimately so frustrating that I didn't care at all for anything before then._

*Jose Lothario & Hector Guerrero vs Krusher Kruschev & Masao Ito (5/11/1984)*
_Holy hotballs how hot are the crowd for Jose and Hector. Damn. For someone who hasn't seen much of Lothario this is a damn good introduction to him. Ito looks like some homeless Jap a mall owner found passed out outside his door and offered him enough money to pay for his cracknboozefest that weekend if he filled at his store as the Christmas Elf because that unreliable bastard Jim called in sick again. However, Ito busts out an iron claw that actually busts Lothario open so I'm naturally a pretty big Ito fan at this point, especially after just blasting through the Texas set where somehow that didn't happen once. The Hector turn angle isn't anything amazing but it's great at making Hector look super petty for walking on Lothario over it. This isn't must see or anything but it's an easy watch for how long it goes and is worth watching to see the start of the Hector/Lothario feud, although you don't NEED to see it to watch and appreciate the forthcoming matches between them._

*Hector Guerrero vs Jose Lothario (Mexican Death Match) (6/8/1984)*
_I'm not gonna talk about the first match separately because I'll probably just be repeating most of what I'll say here but it's really good and I can always dig a fuck you ref we just want to fight so here's a knuckle sandwich for you too finish. Anyways, this match. I'm not as high on it as Andy but it's really good. I was watching this thinking jesus Hector is totally Eddie and then I read Andy's write up and yup. I'd normally be down on matwork to start off a grudge match like this but it fits the story they're telling perfectly and actually really adds to the match when Hector stops playing nice guy (which everyone including Lothario knows is coming) and turns into the death match you'd expect. Hector playing nice with Lothario at the start is so Eddie. I mean it's really Eddie doing it is so Hector I guess but you get the jist. Hector's just like "ok well played Jose I'll give you that one, let's go again brother" and he plays it so well. Match transitions into the violence and it's great. Lothario throws awesome punches. Finish is great. It probably lost some of its edge because I saw the Gordy/Williams finish probably less than an hour earlier and it's the same deal, neither man makes the count so it's first one up wins. I can't believe WWE has never stole this finish for a LMS match btw. It's such an easy huge pop when you announce first one up wins and it's great drama. Chavo gets inserted into the feud here and there's a great pre match promo with Boesch that introduces the hot sauce and Boesch plays into it brilliantly by playing up how hot the sauce is and I'm a mongoid for not twigging that the hot sauce would be the finish. At least I'm not that far gone that I couldn't figure out what Chavo was doing because if you're watching this and thinking Chavo isn't there to turn on Lothario for the finish then you're a lost cause. It's just a matter of how and when not if. Post match stuff with Boesch is again great with him being utterly disgusted at The Guerreros and throwing their asses out._

*Hector & Chavo Guerrero vs Jose Lothario & Jim Duggan (7/6/1984)*
_Ok as if Hector/Lothario wasn't good enough you now wanna throw Duggan into the mix? Holy moly. I don't know if you've seen this one yet Andy as you didn't write anything for it but jesus you need to watch it like as of last year because you'll beam like a spastic for it. I definitely was anyway. If anyone's wishing for more Eddie stuff then just watch these Hector matches because he's so Eddie it's untrue. Chavo comes in now and he's just the same too. I saw a decent amount of them on the Mid South set and they never stood out at this level but watching this stuff has been immediately worthwhile for them and Lothario. Match goes pretty much exactly how you want it to. First 5 minutes are absolutely incredible with Hector and Chavo stooging it up to astronomical levels and just flying around all over the shop for Lothario and Duggan. Like some of the best stooging work I've ever seen, straight up. It's incredible. There's a spot where they both lay down and Duggan and Lothario take turns splashing on them as they try to get up and it goes for like a full minute and I'm in total spastic mode cheering for every one they do. Then you get them in control and it doesn't lose a step at all. The Guerrero's are working like absolute mad men in and out and frankly downright taking the piss with the double team work behind the refs back. Hector decides it'd be a good idea to ram Duggan's head into the buckle and Duggan turns around in disgust like are you not aware of who I am and then proceeds to ram Hector's head into the buckles as if he's testing his hypothesis of does Hector Guerrero also have a Jim Duggan noggin. He doesn't btw. Match isn't totally smooth and there's parts where it's pretty messy but who the fuck cares when you have tag team work on this level. Finish also has a run in by the ghost of Jim Cornette because obviously this match wasn't good enough without a phantom run in finish. This is my favourite match ever. Well ok it isn't but it's really fucking great. For just how great this would probably rank #3 on the Texas set I just finished. Well I say #3, maybe even higher because the other 2 matches sure as shit didn't have Hector and Chavo in them. I can't remember if it was this one or the other Guerreros/Lothario tag but there's a spot where Lothario decks I think it was Chavo and he bounces up and down in the ropes like a total loon and it's absolutely everything I want out of wrestling. I was a fan of this ftr._

*Hector & Chavo Guerrero vs Jose Lothario & Terry Taylor (12/27/1984)*
_This one is only 7 minutes long but it's Hector, Chavo and Lothario with Terry Taylor standing on the apron for 7 minutes so it's obviously good. Lothario and The Guerreros are pretty much an instant hit together and I can only pray that more of their stuff gets uploaded in time. Did I mention that Lothario throws awesome punches? They're really pretty awesome but maybe even more so than usual. I love how I've barely seen any Lothario before today and I now have a running average for his awesome punches. I mean at this point if you watch the earlier Hector matches you should only need "Hector Guerrero" to sell you on watching the match._

*Hector & Chavo Guerrero vs Jose Lothario & Al Madril (7/20/1985)*
_I'll get the one ever so slightly down thing that I have to say about this out of the way immediately. This wasn't as good as the Duggan tag. Ok now that's done this ruled too. You know what you're getting from The Guerreros and Lothario btw but Madril is really good in this as well as another babyface for Hector and Chavo to stooge off of and has some cool stuff of his own. Hector and Chavo are just total workhorses and pretty much never stop running around the ring. Even if one's in the ring the other is getting ready to come straight in off the distraction and they just never fucking stop. The stooging isn't as drawn out as it is in the Duggan tag but it's just as great. There's a spot where Hector and Lothario both decide to just put em up and see who comes out on top and Lothario instantly decks Hector and Hector takes this awesome bump off a Lothario swinger that he's done quite a few times now which is freakin awesome and then Chavo runs right in and takes his own crazy bump off of a Lothario right hand and Lothario's basically just standing and punching while these nutso Guerreros run around and take bumps off his fists. Did I mention that Lothario throws awesome punches yet? Hector does indeed need the career comp treatment. Actually so does Chavo. I need more Guerreros right now like a Mitchell needs CRACK._

*Hector & Chavo Guerrero vs The Fantastics (8/3/1984)*
_When you're looking for more Guerreros tags and this turns up. Dead. On the one hand you could call this disappointing because it feels like the very minimum these two could produce but at the same time the very minimum these two can produce is a damn good way to spend 15 minutes. The Guerreros aren't at the level they are in the Lothario matches but they're still great and The Fantastics as usual absolutely rule. Match is worth watching purely for the guy in the yellow and white cap right under the hard cam who just cannot contain his joy at The Fantastics winning and his body is just overcome with unexplainable movements and I don't think I've ever been as happy as this guy was in this one moment in time where The Fantastics beat The Guerreros._

*Hector & Chavo Guerrero vs Ted DiBiase & Steve Williams (Cage Match) (Special Guest Referee Al Madril) (7/26/1985)*
_More Guerreros greatness. Honestly this is worth watching just for Hector's hairdo. Match starts off kinda slow. DiBiase & Williams' heat segment isn't really much to write about but as it goes on Chavo's selling gets better and better and it starts to make the match into something really great. For some reason nobody seems to do this nowadays but I love Chavo's wonder around the ring looking for Hector but he's so out of it that he has no idea where either he or Hector is so he keeps stumbling to the wrong corner. Just a really great sell job by Chavo. Eventually Hector has enough of it and just comes in and starts cleaning house and it's brilliant. Then they both tie DiBiase down so they can steal the glove and then both DiBiase and Williams start bumping around like loons off the glove and DiBiase's selling of it is awesome. Then Madril takes the glove off Chavo and straight away you know where it's heading. Madril starts making a balls up of the count on DiBiase and Chavo isn't best pleased so Madril puts the glove on his own hand and decks Chavo out with it. Hector realises what went down and has this awesome oh fuck he's gonna fucking murder Madril moment until he gets jumped by the heels and laid out too. Really awesome ending. Match takes a while to get great but once it does it's really great._

*Hector Guerrero vs Steve Williams (10/11/1985)*
_Another great Hector showcase and a pretty fun match too. Hector busts out a bunch of stuff that I don't think I've ever seen before. Williams has him in a headlock and Hector gets out of it by just ramming Williams up the butt with his knees and it's a lot better than I just made it sound. Williams sells it brilliantly too. Most of the match is worked around a headlock but it's the 80s so a match worked around a headlock is a safe bet for an easy watch. All you need is simple stuff like Williams pulling on the hair and the ref knowing it's happening but never seeing it to call it and Williams jumping up on the headlock on the mat to take a nothing rest hold into captivating viewing. Ref does the 3 count with Hector's arm and Hector lets it drop a 3rd time but just raises his other arm with one finger up and I've never seen anyone do that before and it's magnificent. Does it again later but this time raises his leg as he lets his arm drop for the 3rd time. It's the little things. Finish is kinda sudden and doesn't really do the rest of the match justice but the post match makes up for it with Hector just begging DiBiase and Williams to both get in the ring and take him on together after he steals a club from one of the cops ringside as his equaliser._


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

There's a really weird spot in the Triple Threat at WM22 where Rey scissorheads Angle down and Angle just crawls over to the second ring rope and sets up for the 619, reminds why I don't think Angle is anything special. Really took me out of the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Meltzer is reporting that after Summerslam, Smackdown is gonna introduce a new Women's Title and a new set of Tag Team Titles for the show. The Tag Team Titles I'm all for because there's plenty of talented teams on SD and it gives American Alpha something to achieve on the main roster. They're supposed to bring back Curt Hawkins to team with Rhyno as well. 

Another Women's Title on the other hand is a bit too much. They just introduced the new belt a few months ago and now they're gonna do another? What are they gonna call it, the Ladies Title? Cruiserweight division should've been on Smackdown imo. RAW is already loaded and Daniel Bryan, the commentator of the CWC, is the damn GM of Smackdown.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Spent all day watching Midnight Express and Fantastics tags and I haven't smiled this much in one day for ages. There's not been a single one of them that isn't at worst good.*

*Midnight Express vs Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II (2/24/1984)*
_There's two new matches (I'm assuming they're unearthed based on neither making the Mid South set) between these two and they're both borderline great but this is the best of them, basically a more advanced version of the 1/27 match. When you talk about babyfaces that despise the heels they're facing THIS is what I'm talking about. TA and II waste no time at all getting to clubbing Eaton and Condrey around the ring. Babyface shine to start a tag vs MX is always great but this is at a higher level than usual. Babyfaces are just super good guy badasses pinging the heels around all over the place. You know how the rest of the match goes and you know that it's great. Only thing stopping me from calling this great rather than borderline great is that the finish is kinda messy and a bit sudden. Sudden finishes straight off the hot tag have been a staple of these Houston tags and they're just fine but they're like the only critique you can make about these matches is that give them a couple more minutes off the hot tag for an actual finishing stretch (by 80s standards not modern standards obvs). Post match angle has the losers taking 5 whips each and I was kinda bummed that the heels won because I wanted Cornette reacting to getting whipped (his reaction to finding out he's part of the stip and not just Eaton and Condrey was great "god damn it") but I kinda figured given how massively strong the babyfaces got to run wild at the start. Babyfaces sell the post match angle tremendously well. _

*Midnight Express vs Rock N Roll Express (5/11/1984)*
_God damn the pop for the Rock N Rolls. Just INSANE. Might be one of the most thunderous pops I've ever heard. There's a Rock N Rolls tag on the Mid South set against I think The Dirty White Boys in some tiny little venue that was the current holder of that feat but this is really fucking with it. The word deafening gets overused to describe a pop but this literally was at points. Just out of this world pop. You know how the match goes and it's brilliant. Ref is in full on panto mode and like this crowd needed egging on even more but they absolutely lose their shit when he pulls Condrey off Morton for pulling the hair. I'm being dead serious when I say I could watch Midnight Express tags forever until the end of time and not get bored of them. _

*Midnight Express vs The Fantastics (8/31/1984)*
_This is the best of the MX tags on Classics and pretty much worth getting the service for this alone. The Cornette/Fulton interactions in this are out of this world. Cornette flipping out and doing the hold me back shtick on the apron had me in full on spastic mode. Then Cornette gets himself so worked up he starts coughing and I'm ready to submit my soul to him. Match isn't anything different than "their match" besides the added Cornette interactions but it's their match and their match is great and the added element made this FUCKING AWESOME GREAT. And to top it off Cornette chucks in one his awesome post match tantrums. This is life. _


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

seabs said:


> *Spent all day watching Midnight Express and Fantastics tags and I haven't smiled this much in one day for ages. There's not been a single one of them that isn't at worst good.*
> 
> *Midnight Express vs Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II (2/24/1984)*
> _There's two new matches (I'm assuming they're unearthed based on neither making the Mid South set) between these two and they're both borderline great but this is the best of them, basically a more advanced version of the 1/27 match. When you talk about babyfaces that despise the heels they're facing THIS is what I'm talking about. TA and II waste no time at all getting to clubbing Eaton and Condrey around the ring. Babyface shine to start a tag vs MX is always great but this is at a higher level than usual. Babyfaces are just super good guy badasses pinging the heels around all over the place. You know how the rest of the match goes and you know that it's great. Only thing stopping me from calling this great rather than borderline great is that the finish is kinda messy and a bit sudden. Sudden finishes straight off the hot tag have been a staple of these Houston tags and they're just fine but they're like the only critique you can make about these matches is that give them a couple more minutes off the hot tag for an actual finishing stretch (by 80s standards not modern standards obvs). Post match angle has the losers taking 5 whips each and I was kinda bummed that the heels won because I wanted Cornette reacting to getting whipped (his reaction to finding out he's part of the stip and not just Eaton and Condrey was great "god damn it") but I kinda figured given how massively strong the babyfaces got to run wild at the start. Babyfaces sell the post match angle tremendously well. _
> ...


You mention a RnR express match: Ricky Morton (and damn that man could sell) was the latest guest today on Steve Austin Show and Ricky Morton shared some I thought interesting thoughts on some basic wrestling things. A good listen. 

Anyway, just popping in here to pimp the beautiful simplicity of the tag psychology by Ole Anderson and my guy Stan the man :mark in this squash. Just some solid fundamental rassling for a quick tag match. By the way: screw being an enhancement talent and seeing your name on the card next to t those two surly grouches on the same team. 






This isn't solid: but worth posting for that freaking lariat. Jeez bout took his head off and those scoop slams were no picnic either. Love here too when Stan elbows a guy in the throat in his corner and Stan yells to the ref "get him out of my damn corner"


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Legit, my only gripe with Reigns/Rusev is that it's about two years too late. I would have much preferred Reigns not being rushed and going through the mid-card first and dethroning Rusev at WM31 for the U.S. Title instead of Cena. Reigns would have been in much better shape right now on the card and Rusev wouldn't have had that period where he was floating around post-Cena and doing nothing programs with Ziggler and The League of Nations.



Corey said:


> Meltzer is reporting that after Summerslam, Smackdown is gonna introduce a new Women's Title and a new set of Tag Team Titles for the show. The Tag Team Titles I'm all for because there's plenty of talented teams on SD and it gives American Alpha something to achieve on the main roster. They're supposed to bring back Curt Hawkins to team with Rhyno as well.
> 
> Another Women's Title on the other hand is a bit too much. They just introduced the new belt a few months ago and now they're gonna do another? What are they gonna call it, the Ladies Title? Cruiserweight division should've been on Smackdown imo. RAW is already loaded and Daniel Bryan, the commentator of the CWC, is the damn GM of Smackdown.


I said before the draft that the Cruiserweight division should have been Smackdown exclusive and the women's division should have been Raw exclusive. 

As is, there are like six women on each brand... the hell kind of division is that? Especially Smackdown with Becky, Natalya, Bliss, Carmella, Eva Marie & Naomi. I love Becky, and Alexa has a lot of potential, but god bless Becky's soul and good luck carrying that division.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns vs Rusev is ideal for right now, as it would be ideal for any time. Officially what I want to see the most come SummerSlam now.

RAW sucked, but meh. Not like I'm surprised. Fabulous follow up for Zayn post Battleground. Ugh. At least I got my squashes from Braun and NIA JAX.

LOL @ two women's championships. That legit failed w/brand splits before. What makes Sasha being champion so important, then? Bad enough there isn't enough talent at all to make it work. Especially on SD when that entire roster is p. much trash. (it's so bad Becky Lynch is considered the one to "carry" it, and she's mediocre af. Which is me being kind.)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I honestly hope that they put the new belt on Naomi. I think she's really underrated and should've won the belt ages ago from Nikki when they tried pushing her and she just kept losing.

Miz vs. Crews for the IC Title at Summerslam. Meh, actually pulling for Miz here. Crews hasn't really done anything to make me care about him since they randomly called him up.

Didn't get to see Smackdown, but my friends were raving about the promo work.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Oh man... Ziggler/Ambrose promo was fucking sick, and then Styles/Cena killed it as well. They did more for Ziggler's character and his progression tonight than they have since Survivor Series 2014.

Wyatt vs. Ziggler was also not a bad match at all aside from that Wyatt injury scare.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@seabs is that a Mid-South set (as you watched Lothario before)?

Able to hit me up with the location for the Midnights tags? Got a wrestling kick for now and nothing better than Midnight tags.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> @seabs is that a Mid-South set (as you watched Lothario before)?
> 
> Able to hit me up with the location for the Midnights tags? Got a wrestling kick for now and nothing better than Midnight tags.


I believe he's watching everything from NWA Classics on Demand. http://www.nwaondemand.com/


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## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Corey said:


> I believe he's watching everything from NWA Classics on Demand. http://www.nwaondemand.com/


Cheers. Going to have to check that out. How deep is their wrestling library? Guessing it extends to stuff like Florida, Georgia and some state territories?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's only Paul Boesch's Houston tapes. A lot of it is newly acquired, and even more of it is absolute classic wrestling. Full list (sort of).


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Rah said:


> It's only Paul Boesch's Houston tapes. A lot of it is newly acquired, and even more of it is absolute classic wrestling. Full list (sort of).


Cheers. Compelled now to dig through some of them. Two Flair/Wahoo matches, Flair/Reed, couple of Magnum/Wrestling2 vs Midnight Express. And so much more. Eeexxxxcccceellleennnttt. Would Houston be one of the partner feds with Mid-South or Mid-South itself? Because it oozes Mid-South names like Reed, Ladd, Junkyard etc.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Desecrated said:


> Cheers. Compelled now to dig through some of them. Two Flair/Wahoo matches, Flair/Reed, couple of Magnum/Wrestling2 vs Midnight Express. And so much more. Eeexxxxcccceellleennnttt. Would Houston be one of the partner feds with Mid-South or Mid-South itself? Because it oozes Mid-South names like Reed, Ladd, Junkyard etc.


Hop on the 1-week free trial. Try out the Fantastics/Midnight Express tag; it's pretty much perfect.

As for the talent exchange, I'm far from an expert so I stand to be corrected, but I believe Houston relied heavily on other promotions to feed them talent. Boesch and Bill Watts had a working agreement in the late 70s/early 80s (?) that would allow UWF talent to work Houston in exchange for them getting recognition in the Sam Houston coliseum (which was a pretty big deal arena at the time). Watts got name-value superstars and Boesch got fresh, great talent. Win/win, I guess.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Rah said:


> Hop on the 1-week free trial. Try out the Fantastics/Midnight Express tag; it's pretty much perfect.


Want to write a review on that match but I can't. Words getitng mumbled and coming out sounding weird. Like I'm missing something.

Fucking fantastic is probably good enough. I can probably do better than that as a description. Maybe "pretty much perfect" can be considered an undersell. 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Gotta echo what Seabs said about smiling after (those/this) match(es). That crowd pop and the Cornette shenaigans were incredible.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Jim Duggan & Steve Williams vs Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts (Country Whipping Match) (11/7/1986)*
_COUNTRY WHIPPING MATCHES RULE. Pretty much the only complain you can have about them is that they're short so they always leave you wanting more but that's hardly much of a complaint. All 4 guys are great in this. Hayes & Roberts are fantastic going full on chickenshit heel stooges and Williams and Duggan are just the perfect opposition for them in that mode in this match. Spot where Roberts is backing away from Williams but going towards the babyface corner and Duggan just whips his back is magnificent. Hayes literally just hightailing it at the end was a bit odd but the finish itself is great. Tremendous way to spend 11 minutes of your time and more proof that Jim Duggan was FUCKING AWESOME._

*Jim Duggan vs Kamala (6/28/1985)*
_I've just watched 5 Duggan matches vs Kamala and One Man Gang and they're all at least good but this was the best of them. It's basically the 6 minute OMG match Andy talked about but bigger, better and hotter. Match itself only goes a few minutes before it gets thrown out but the whole brawl itself probably goes around 8. Based on Boesch's commentary (I really like Boesch as a commentator btw) this is Duggan's return to Houston, I'm presuming after some injury angle because he comes out with the eye covered and it gets torn off and his eye is basically a massive red hole on his face and looks nasty as hell. They do the big pull apart brawl where the geeks from the locker room spill out and in WWE it's usually a nothing angle (bar the Cena/Lesnar one they did) but here it's awesome because Duggan is over as fuck and an all time great brawler, especially in a context like this. I'm watched enough Kamala over the last month that I'm getting kinda high on him. Not to the point to say that he's "good" but he's good at what he does and one of the better guys at the role he has. I mean there hasn't been anything with Kamala between this stuff and the Texas set that was bad and a lot of good stuff. Moment when Duggan gets handed an axe handle (an axe handle!) and the whole ring just empties in an instant as Duggan stands tall begging for a fight is awesome. I was a MASSIVE Duggan before this but this Houston footage is just adding some much further weight to my opinion of him. 2nd Kamala match feels kinda hindered by the angle with Akbar being handcuffed and part of the match if Duggan gets past Kamala (as in within the match itself not a if he wins he gets 5 minutes with deal) so it becomes more Duggan drops Kamala and goes for Akbar than the Duggan keeps dropping Kamala that I wanted. But it's still another good sub 10 minute brawl between those 2 and the spot with the powder being flipped back on Kamala ruled. 3rd match is 6 minutes and probably 3-4 of them are an angle with DiBiase so the match is like 2-3 minutes long but Duggan blades anyway lol. Angle ends with Duggan and DiBiase hugging each other triumphantly so of course I love it. And seeing as I ended up mentioning all the matches anyway the 2 OMG matches are well worth your time too but especially the 6 minute one which is really good for a 6 minute walk and punch brawl._

*Jim Duggan vs Ted DiBiase (Loser Leaves Town Cage Match) (8/26/1983)
Jim Duggan vs Ted DiBiase (11/9/1984)*
_I feel harsh calling these two disappointing but it's only in the sense that their matches on the Mid South set range from great to classic and these are ONLY very good. Still, not to turn your nose up at two more very good DiBiase/Duggan matches. Neither match is really anything that you wouldn't expect from these two and it feels like a pairing that's impossible to have a below very good match with. Loved the use of the turnbuckle in the Cage match after it comes unhooked. Incredible how they managed to divert from the script and react to it. Your sarcasm detector should be having a fit about now btw. If you haven't seen the 2 matches also on the site that preceed this one then watch this and get super hyped at what's to come. The Coal Miner's Glove Cage Match is an all time great match and won't get talked about on Classics because prolly everyone who is watching this stuff has already seen it but if you haven't then you're in for a treat. On that note the quality of the footage is really incredible. For those of you who have seen their other matches maybe lower your expectations for these just a tiny touch and you'll definitely dig them._

*Jose Lothario vs Black Gordman (1/13/1984)*
_Jesus this was just flat out awesome as far as 10 minute brawls go. Well actually it doesn't even need that asterisk to call it awesome. I watched some more wrestling based Lothario too today and honestly most of it isn't all that captivating but brawling Lothario continues to be the bomb. Have I mentioned yet that Lothario throws awesome punches? Some of them in this one are just outstanding. Whole match is basically just these two punching each other and shoving the ref out the way whenever he has the audacity to try and break them up and it's about as good of a 10 minute version of said match as there is. This is honestly up there with the Hector Death Match for me. There's a tag between the two on there as well and booooo at it being worked as a straight up tag rather than a direct sequel to this. If there's one fault with this amazing service it's that it's made me want to see matches I never knew I needed in my life beforehand. I know, my criticisms of all this stuff are straight up fire._


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Another good week for the CWC. Swann vs. Jason Lee was short and sweet. Dar vs. other Bollywood guy was a dud. Ddin't care for it at all.

Jack Gallagher vs. Fabian Aichner was where it got real good. I've heard of Gallagher but never seen him and I thought Aichner was gonna be shit, but this was an awesome clash of styles. Both guys were really impressive and the crowd took a liking to Gallagher. That reversal out of the guillotine into the toss up powerbomb was fucking SWEET. *** 1/4

Ciampa vs. Gargano was absurdly one sided and Ciampa laid out one hell of a beatdown, but the match worked for what they were going for I guess (seen the story done with Gargano multiple times though). That apron bump was one of the more painful looking ones I've seen in recent memory and Gargano took one of the best Project Ciampas I've probably ever seen. A lot of nasty shots in this one. Probably would've gotten a better reaction from me if the match was live since I already knew the result. *** 1/4


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Bret Hart defeated The Undertaker to win back the WWF Championship at SummerSlam 1997 from the Continental Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, New Jersey.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Everyone raving about the gargano match on twitter. Not seen it myself yet.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Watched three more on the NWA on Demand site;

Ernie Ladd & Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll & Jim Duggan June 8th 84
There is a lot that can be said about the showmanship of the Midnight Express and the force of nature that is Ricky Morton that would fill every little review of these guys. (It's tremendous) But I'll focus on the other stuff. Thought Ernie Ladd was top freaking notch here. Sold so well for a guy who was half his size. Made the match a great spectacle in the end before it descended into the true anarchy and chaos that is a Mid-South tag match. Classic until the end of time. Everything you'd want from a M-S tag and much more. 

Ric Flair vs Wahoo I (July 12 85)
It feels like this set the tone for their matches throughout 1985. It starts with a brawl but always descends into Flair trying to neutralise Wahoo before the flurry of tomahawks, only for Wahoo to screw himself out of the win. This is a bit more bloody than their 2/3 falls and their rematch. Great match for what it is but I feel these guys can get more over the top.

Ric Flair vs Wahoo II (July 26 85)
Early brawl relaxed into a more intense battle of wear'n'tear. It has higher highs in a way than their original match but it didn't click as well for me. I feel I could talk more about these matches but I somehow came out of them a bit demoralised.

Can probably throw in some stars. ****1/2, **** and ***3/4 in order. I mean, the last one is great but I suppose what I wrote doesn't depict that. It's a mixture of their first match and their Florida match. I haven't seen their other Mid-South one(s) yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-4/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CWC Week 4: (spoiler alert, it was awful)

If this crowd does an "All Night Long" chant, I'm done. and there it is right when the bell rings. Friggin GEEKS. I like Swann a lot, but the dancing needs take a backseat. That's nothing new from me to say. I like him more when he is acting more like a weirdo, not just a guy who dances all the time. Bad enough that has become fashionable in today's world of wrestling. Guys acting like a goof w/o any character context is just as lame to me as guys acting INTENSE as their only emotion. Match is legit NOTHING. What in the world was the point of this? Swann got to hit a couple of signature moves, but this felt more like a squash match for Swann if he was on NXT, than it did anything for Jason Lee. Lee's cravate used in this was soooooooooo bad. Speed kills, but apparently putting some force behind any of his strikes/holds is unknown to him.

Noam Dar had a match. He won his match. Unfortunately he's got Hoho Lun next. He may go deep in the tournament w/matches not worth talking about. That's...something. Not good, but something. Didn't think he did much in this to look particularly good himself. This sucked.

Gallagher I liked and left this show being the only one I felt ended up looking good out of this otherwise bad night of wrestling. Aichner did that counter out of the guillotine thingy, but other than that, nothing stuck out. I guess points for him bumping well off of Gallagher's series of counters.

Gargano vs Ciampa...*sigh*. Welp, I don't have to look any further than this match to know how vindicated I feel in hating Ciampa. Not like Gargano was any good in this either, he was part of the crap too. Didn't even make a convincing FIP for what it was worth, b/c he had to chime in w/his REALLY HARD STRIKES any time he found a chance, instead of imploring a more plucky alternative. It's all so cheap and phony. From start to finish. And exceptionally, disgustingly indie, like I feared. A bazillion stupid knee strikes/shots to the head, the stalling in between exchanges, apron spots, finisher near falls, and random roll up endings. The part about 3 minutes in when Ciampa hit about 3 knee strikes in a row, he looked unsure of what to do next so he put on a chinlock just b/c. Of course he did. Cancer, right here. Straight up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daniel97 said:


> Everyone raving about the gargano match on twitter. Not seen it myself yet.


I feel like most of these people probably never saw either one of them wrestle before they came to NXT.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1997, Lex Luger defeated Hollywood Hogan by submission to win the WCW World Heavyweight Title on Nitro from The Palace in Auburn Hills, Michigan.




I'll never forget this night. 



Tony Schiavone said:


> Luger won the title! Luger won the title! Lex Luger won the title! Lex Luger is the heavyweight champion of the world!


And the best part of this title win? Luger won the WCW world title at the same venue he failed to win the WWF Title 4 years ago at SummerSlam 1993!

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Road Wild 97 happens.

That show. Eeeesh.

******** booing Harlem Heat b/c obvious racism :lmao


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Terry Funk vs Mark Lewin (2/3 Falls) (12/12/1980)*
_The arm work. The arm sell. The leg work. The leg sell. All just awesome. First 2 falls feel a bit like Funk having a great match while someone holds his hand but then Lewin really comes to the party in the 3rd fall with his tremendous sell of the leg. Fantastic showcase for Funk, not like his rep needed stuff like this to pop um mind. Finisher is a debbie downer even by well this is the 80s standards but only caps the match at GREAT rather than anything more._

*Harley Race vs Andre The Giant (2/3 Falls) (1/7/1979)*
_God this was fantastic. Andre's a big blind spot with my viewing for reasons I'm not really entirely sure of and this is the first big Andre match I've seen and yeah he was fantastic. The 1st fall is basically all Andre working holds on Race and it's super captivating and while yeah Andre working holds looks better than anyone because of his size and that obviously adds to it but it's not the reason why the 1st fall was great. It's great because Andre's fucking great at working holds. And that's not to take anything away from Race either who is great in the other end of the equation too. My stock on Race keeps shooting up the more I see of him. I sorta forgot but I've got a Race comp and I may need to dive into that sooner rather than later. Well probably later before sooner because I just got the Portland and Puerto Rico sets in today and I want to be super hip and crack into them as soon as possible. You getting them too Andy? If so which are you watching first and I'll watch that one first too so you're not just rambling to yourself on here about for them for a change. Back to the match in hand. I really love Race's subtle general selling of fear and being in trouble in a match. It kinda blew me away in the Kevin match and it's on a smaller scale here but it's still fantastic and just puts everyone over. I knew about the slam spot but I was expecting it to come later in the match and definitely not on the floor so the actual spot took me by surprise a tad. In the Race matches I've seen lately (which admittedly is a small sample size but that maybe enforces it even further) big spots on the floor seem a very regular occurrence and I'm not super high on that. In the Parsons and Kerry matches they're kinda shrugged off but it's what it should be here. Big move to a big reaction that has a big impact on the match and is sold for the rest of the match by Andre. Finish to the 2nd fall is just as great. I won't spoil it because it's worth not knowing it before you see it because it also kinda blew me away. 3rd fall sadly barely even gets going before the downbeat finish. I mean it's the 80s so expect it but a longer 3rd fall before they go to it would have been nice. It's a shame that so much of this Houston stuff doesn't have super satisfying conclusions to great matches but that doesn't stop this being *maybe* the best match on the site so far. Well it's not because I'm not including the Duggan/DiBiase Tuxedo Cage Match which is better but of the previously unavailable stuff it's maybe the best. It's right up there with the MX vs Fantastics and Guerreros vs Lothario/Duggan tags but it's so hard to compare this with them because of how different they are. If you haven't figured it out btw this is pretty much must watch._

*Wild Bull Curry vs Johnny Valentine (6/20/1969)*
_Fuck I loved this. One of the matches I've loved the most on this so far. Not the best of all them matches (the fact that this is GREAT and yet not even in that discussion is an awesome shill) but I loved it just as much as any of them, probably in large part due to both men being new discoveries for me and me absolutely loving both guys. Curry looks like a terrible Halloween outfit and the eyebrows, oh man those eyebrows. Boesch even rips into his looks saying "well at least Bull doesn't have to worry about his face". Savage Boesch savage. Have I mentioned yet that Lothario throws awesome punches? Well Curry's might be even better. When he starts throwing them in bunches, fucking unreal. I never thought about it before but Curry drove it home here, I'm a massive mark for guys throwing strikes in quick succession and when Curry starts going off with them , oh man, it's beautiful. Valentine's selling of them is masterful too. I love how both men would sell their ears as they get hit upside the head, something you don't see often but is awesome. Talked about Curry but Valentine is just as great in this in his own right. Throws great punches himself, sells Curry's beautifully and works holds super well. First fall has a long headlock segment and although it's not filled with Arn Anderson make a headlock the best part of a match.... isms, it's still really captivating and it's pretty much because they're just working the hold rather than only holding the hold in. Finish of the first fall is super swanky by Valentine too. Second fall Curry really starts going off and turns the match into a full on slugfest and reminded me of the closing minute of a UFC bout where it's dead even and both guys just go out swinging for the win. 3rd fall is really just a ringside brawl for a minute or two before it gets thrown out and that made me sad, not because of the non finish because duh you should see that coming by now but because of how short the 3rd fall itself ended up being. Give me 5 more minutes of these two just swinging for each other and then throw it out. You can imagine my disappointment to discover only one more match on the site involving either guy. Or you will be able to imagine it when you see this. Add another to the I got nwaondemand and this is the shit I really need to make sure that I see before my wife finds out I spent the kid's lunch money on a streaming service of wrestling matches from 30+ years ago._


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

:aj3

I mean... Gargano/Ciampa wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great either. It was overhyped. I can't justify giving it more than ***1/4, though. Neither of those two do anything for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown was trash.

Bray's power moves are great.

Why am I not watching those NWA classics stuff instead?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Why am I not watching those NWA classics stuff instead?


Cause it's the NEW ERA!~, bruh. The rebirth of Dolph Ziggler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't help but feel the crushing irony of wanting a lot for both Zayn and Bray on their respective brands, meanwhile what happened this week shoots home why I'm so down on WWE.

It's like I got a great sandwich on a platter, then Vince & his gang come and knock it out of my hands. I really, really wanted to eat that sandwich. :mj2


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@seabs Saw the Race/Andre match yesterday too. The submission work by Andre was really top notch stuff. Some of the best stuff I've seen in that regards. Race was great in selling how grueling it was. The ending wasn't anywhere near as satisfying as the rest of the match was but with the way it was going, I can understand the finish. Race wasn't going to last going back into the ring with Andre and used that champions advantage to his favour. Great, great match.

Also watched from the Classics;
Lanny Poffo/Bracero vs Midnight Express - Good match, typical Midnight Express match but it's their formula and they work the hell out of it.
Porkchops/Bill Dundee vs Midnight Express - Weaker than the above but still watchable. Ending is abrupt which is super anti-climatic.
Fantastics & Duggan/Midnights & Cornette - Tease around Duggan trying to get Cornette into the ring was great. Use of Cornette perfectly done and while the ending was extremely abrupt, I believe it set up two feuds. Best of the three matches. 

Common trend of whack finishes but in each of the four matches above, the rest of the match gave me enough material to enjoy. And considering the Fantastics/Midnight beauty a month or so later, it was hella worth the dodgy finish.

Going to watch the three Midnight against Wrestling 2/Magnum matches later in the day. Hyped. At least I hope it's three different matches.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> If this crowd does an "All Night Long" chant, I'm done. and there it is right when the bell rings. Friggin GEEKS.


What a pretentious mark thing to say :lmao Not only because Swann himself has utilized and encouraged the chant to help get himself over (and it worked), but just look at Zayn and the "Ole" - it's followed him all the way to the main roster, and it's not hurt him one solitary bit. And the dancing? Um, that's kind of his main personality trait. His weirdness is all the more bizarre in context with that knowledge.

Ciampa/Gargano was very good and the right match to wrap up the first round. There was something missing in Gargano's babyface sell for me. I liked the promo, thought they orchestrated their roles correctly, and really liked Ciampa's hesitation w/the knee pad. I wanted Gargano to emote a little more than "gotcha" and stare out into the center of the universe. IDK, it wasn't bad, and definitely a worthy endcap to the first round. That Air Raid Crash on the Apron was SICK~! GDAMN. Nice false finish on the Project Ciampa, and really liked the finishing sequence. I think fans sometimes get jaded watching counter/pin/counter/pin near the end, and don't believe it will actually be the end. You can tell it surprised the hell out of the crowd. Ciampa looked really good - great strikes - and I really liked the post-match stuff. Somewhere around ***1/2, edging close to ***3/4 for me.



Corey said:


> Probably would've gotten a better reaction from me if the match was live since I already knew the result. *** 1/4


Really? Because you looked up spoilers, it took the match down? :lmao Incredible. Cue that Radiohead song for the both of you "You do it to yourself, you do. Just you and no one else"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But I didn't read spoilers. Does that help my cause out in the overactive rage?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shut up, Cody :cal2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> Really? Because you looked up spoilers, it took the match down? :lmao Incredible. Cue that Radiohead song for the both of you "You do it to yourself, you do. Just you and no one else"


My rating was a whopping 1/4* less than yours and I felt Gargano/Ciampa was the 2nd best match of the 1st round, so do you really think me knowing the result "took the match down"? Cause it certainly didn't for Kendrick/Mendoza, Gallagher/Aichner, or Ibushi/Maluta. It was just a simple observation and if it makes you feel any better, I applauded the fact that they had Gargano win with the flash rollup instead of inflicting a random flurry of offense to beat him (which I probably wouldn't have cared for as much personally). Me not liking the match _quite_ as much as you did boils down to the fact that I had very little investment in their storyline of tag partners & best friends fighting for whats at stake (because I've never even watched any of their tag work in NXT) and seeing Gargano get destroyed while looking like this incredible underdog fighting from behind isn't all that enticing of a story for me because I saw it happen several times in DGUSA/EVOLVE run. I've also voiced my opinion several times on the forum on how strikes in general don't do as much for me when they're used so often throughout a match and sound SO LOUD and you can't clarify which strike will win a match and what won't (see my dislike for Chris Hero).

I hope my further clarification has eased your mind on the topic. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Speaking of cancer. Oh hey Cal.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

How I rated it isn't relevant. It's just a ridiculous reason to downgrade a match - Hardly a fault on the performers or of the match itself that you went out of your way to read spoilers beforehand. It's not like the finish was predictable. Right up there with:



> seeing Gargano get destroyed while looking like this incredible underdog fighting from behind isn't all that enticing of a story for me because I saw it happen several times in DGUSA/EVOLVE run


As far aspects that don't matter when watching a match. I've seen plenty of Gargano on the indies - including live in Evolve multiple times - but unless it's related to how his CWC performance compared to the others, what's the point? Just smacks of being too cool for your own good. Are you not able to judge it on what you saw, or does everything have to be a "new" or "fresh" thing to entice? Obviously, this is the part where heels get dug in the sand, but as criteria for judging any given match, it's awful. Sorry, jmo.

Ob with DAT reading comprehension, tho :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But I said *I* didn't read spoilers, unlike Corey, and still thought the match was shit. Which means I'm exempt from this latest rant. :CENA


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> How I rated it isn't relevant. It's just a ridiculous reason to downgrade a match - Hardly a fault on the performers or of the match itself that you went out of your way to read spoilers beforehand. It's not like the finish was predictable. Right up there with:
> 
> As far aspects that don't matter when watching a match. I've seen plenty of Gargano on the indies - including live in Evolve multiple times - but unless it's related to how his CWC performance compared to the others, what's the point? Just smacks of being too cool for your own good. Are you not able to judge it on what you saw, or does everything have to be a "new" or "fresh" thing to entice? Obviously, this is the part where heels get dug in the sand, but as criteria for judging any given match, it's awful. Sorry, jmo.


What? It's clearly relevant if you're going out of your way to comment on my thoughts on the match and share your own (that's literally what we do here). I already said that I didn't "downgrade" the match for anything involving the finish. You're actually going in the opposite direction of me saying that I clearly _liked_ the finish in comparison of what they could've done.

Here's a question for you, how hard is it to understand that if I've seen the same style/type of match so many times before, then it's not gonna have the same effect on me and my investment won't be the same? Did you like the 3rd Cena/Owens match as much as the 1st one? Because it was pretty much the same thing. How about the NOC match between Cena & Rollins after they'd wrestled 3 or 4 times before that in a short period of time? Pentagon Jr. vs. Fenix has happened in idk how many different companies now and there's such a little difference in the match they put together. Do you think I'm gonna enjoy the same match over and over again as I did the first time? Stop trying to act like you can't comprehend what I'm saying and that me reading spoilers is just so awful and so difficult to do like I needed to dig for them and go "out of my way" to do so. Fuck outta here with that. I liked the match for my reasons, you liked it more for yours. Move on.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

Spoilers spoil all the fun. That is how I feel about it at least.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fuck dolph ziggler

i'm liking orton since he returned. i've got so much wrestling to watch i can't choose. i've got a huge folder of hardcore matches, that could be fun. 

i watched one of my favourite matches the other night, Austin vs Angle - Unforgiven 2001 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But what about the SummerSlam match, Kenny? That's the TOPS. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A bit concerned about the future of Smackdown's roster with some of the news that's broken recently. Cena's FOX show _American Grit_ was renewed for a 2nd season so he'll be taking some time off soon to film that. That could be a huge blow to the ratings and for obvious depth to the main event scene. Also looks like Del Rio is on his way out as soon as maybe next month after not being happy with his position and booking in the company. Probably back to Mexico for him. Wyatt also seems to be injury prone so who the hell knows how long it'll be before he's out again.  Some of the Smackdown PPVs might be reaaaaally scarce on high level talent by the looks of it. Bringing Shelton back is a great move and they should try and continue bringing in those past names to round it out (although there's really not too many more that I think are legit chances at happening). There's apparently reports out saying that they're "very high" on trying to bring back John Morrison, but I doubt that would be anytime soon with Season 3 of LU not even being aired yet.

On the contrary, I really thinks this opens the door for AJ Styles. My honest prediction is that he goes over Cena at Summerslam (hopefully clean) and then challenges Dean (yeah fuck Dolph) at Backlash for the World Title, where he hopefully wins the belt. I mean, they've gotta reward the guy at some point for putting over so many people this year right? Backlash I think might look something like this:

Ambrose vs. AJ for the WWE Title
Orton vs. Wyatt (could somehow see Bray working himself into this Orton/Lesnar thing with his recent history with Brock)
American Alpha vs. Usos for the new Tag Team Titles
New Women's Title match (probably Becky vs. Natalya again)
Some kind of IC Title match (boy that midcard depth is shit... maybe Miz vs. Shelton?)
Some other filler mess


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of the Usos seems to be injured too, though. Jimmy hasn't worked for a few weeks, it's only been Jey in singles.

But I certainly wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet. Still have Summerslam to even take place before any idea will come together. I did easily think of them going after Morrison, b/c why not? That's just a case if he wants the schedule though. (and no, LU wouldn't factor in. He does that largely b/c of the free time awarded)

LOL if Del Rio is gone this soon. Is the contract up or what? To think that's where the Cena US Championship spiel ended.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> LOL if Del Rio is gone this soon. Is the contract up or what? To think that's where the Cena US Championship spiel ended.


He apparently has a clause in his contract where he can walk after one year if he's not happy, which would presumably be sometime in September. Not like we'd notice if he was gone anyway. 

I'm sure you've read by now that Ryback is gone from the company too, right?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> But what about the SummerSlam match, Kenny? That's the TOPS. :mark:


I love their whole series. :mark:

Btw, I just downloaded ALL NITROS from 2000-2001 :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey said:


> He apparently has a clause in his contract where he can walk after one year if he's not happy, which would presumably be sometime in September. Not like we'd notice if he was gone anyway.
> 
> I'm sure you've read by now that Ryback is gone from the company too, right?


Ahhhh. Shame b/c I'm a fan, but he's been floating around all year, so despite the talent, he can easily be gone and it not be a loss to WWE in this current climate.

Didn't know about Ryback being confirmed finally. Not surprising. Another guy I like gone, so that's a bummer. But it is what it is. Figured after being sent home it was only a matter of time.



King Kenny said:


> I love their whole series. :mark:
> 
> Btw, I just downloaded ALL NITROS from 2000-2001 :lol


Awesome. Those got uploaded to the Network recently, yet to dive in myself. I like latter 2000/2001 a good bit b/c they got rid of Russo and felt like they were intent on being a solid all around promotion again. May have to slam through that chunk soon. Any excuse to rewatch Sin and see if it holds up.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Didn't know about Ryback being confirmed finally. Not surprising. Another guy I like gone, so that's a bummer. But it is what it is. Figured after being sent home it was only a matter of time.


Ryback is someone that is just so bizarre to look back on, that late 2012 period was nuts, like he could have beaten Punk for the title at HIAC and I would have been perfectly ok with it. Like I could sit and pick Ryback apart if I wanted to so, so easily but he just gets past all my cynicism and I feel like I'm 8 years old again watching him slam people around. I was about to compare him to Sid there but that is a gravely unfair to the master and ruler of the world.

I've been watching a ton of 06/07 Raw since they stuck it up on the network and seriously 2006 might be my favourite year of WWE, like its nowhere near the best but as an overall.. thing? The shows are great... I mean this does entirely come down to your opinion on the DX reunion but I was 14 at the time, sue me I like it. Smackdown 06 though? OH BABY, please come to the Network soon, just gonna watch every Finlay match :mark:



Big Cal's World said:


> Shut up, Cody :cal2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> Ahhhh. Shame b/c I'm a fan, but he's been floating around all year, so despite the talent, he can easily be gone and it not be a loss to WWE in this current climate.
> 
> Didn't know about Ryback being confirmed finally. Not surprising. Another guy I like gone, so that's a bummer. But it is what it is. Figured after being sent home it was only a matter of time.
> 
> ...


What period in late 2000?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, I feel like I just put a curse on Smackdown. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> What period in late 2000?


Russo was done in October, mainly thanks to the Spear from Goldberg that fucked up the concussion he already had.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Now, now with the thin skin, haha. If you meant something else, that's fine. But you know, this was your quote:



> Probably would've gotten a better reaction from me if the match was live since I already knew the result. *** 1/4


Which I interpreted as you liked the match less than you would have than if you hadn't read the spoilers. Which, to me, is a poor reason. Big whoop - wanna fight about it? If you can't handle having your opinions challenged, block or ignore me. 

If I remember correctly, I preferred the first and third Owens/Cena matches to the second, and only really liked the "broken nose" Raw match and SS (sans the finish) between Rollins and Cena. But no, it doesn't matter much to me how many times two performers lock up. Good matches are good matches and good pairings are good pairings. Simple as, especially considering 95% of all NA matches follow the exact same formula. The performances in each match are capable of being judged in their own right.

And no, how I rated it isn't relevant because I don't really care what you rated it either. I'm questioning how you came to it, not the rating itself. 


And Ob, somehow you missed the the entire block under where I quoted you, and honed in on the dig at the end. The dig was that both of you brought disappointment on yourself - Corey from spoilers, Ob from the crowd during Swann's match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No, I posted a sarcastic comment b/c I'm taking the piss out of your goofy rant. Speaking of lacking comprehension :cal2



Craig said:


> Ryback is someone that is just so bizarre to look back on, that late 2012 period was nuts, like he could have beaten Punk for the title at HIAC and I would have been perfectly ok with it. Like I could sit and pick Ryback apart if I wanted to so, so easily but he just gets past all my cynicism and I feel like I'm 8 years old again watching him slam people around. I was about to compare him to Sid there but that is a gravely unfair to the master and ruler of the world.
> 
> I've been watching a ton of 06/07 Raw since they stuck it up on the network and seriously 2006 might be my favourite year of WWE, like its nowhere near the best but as an overall.. thing? The shows are great... I mean this does entirely come down to your opinion on the DX reunion but I was 14 at the time, sue me I like it. Smackdown 06 though? OH BABY, please come to the Network soon, just gonna watch every Finlay match :mark:


There's this Ryback vs Del Rio match from Main Event in 2012 that's such a blast, and kind of sums up how much I liked Ryback. You jump to Sid, I look at this match kind of, w/o actually making the comparison myself, Ultimate Warrior. Just a lot of that energy from the smash em up monster babyface. I still look at 2013 as a bummer when they turned him heel. I remember when he hit Cena, I literally didn't even believe it was a turn. Just thought he was going to say he wanted a title shot and sometimes this is how you do it. (think Shawn Michaels superkick'ing various folks to make a point) Then I was way off. At least I got that moment where he returned babyface to kill Bo Dallas and I lit up at the thought of him having a career again.

I was watching a decent portion of 2004 RAW, now they've gone and added so much more I'm starting to think I need to get my priorities in order. The good problem of the Network having so much I want to watch, it's starting to consume me to the point where idk where to go. The DX segments didn't do anything for me, but I liked the matches vs the McMahons, so the payoff was worth it. There's this random six pack challenge that happens on a latter RAW during the year that I've always wanted to see again. During the Nitro championship run. Had the feeling Nitro wouldn't be champion that long, so any time the championship was up for grabs, I was usually suckered into the dramatics. Then when he was vs the returning JEFF HARDY. Oh man.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

It sucks about Benjamin but he still can sign with them when he is healthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2006 SmackDown!!!!! What a year. 

Their first episode of the year ends in a crappy shit cage match, but has the awesome (yet brief w/ commercials) Juvi/Kash. 
The second week already hits a major home run with that Benoit/Orton. 
Third week another major home run with Rey/Henry. 
Then the next week the Benoit/Orton NHB. 
Then the next week the opener is a really good MNM/Mexicools, and we get our first Benoit/Finlay, albeit it being short. 
Then the next week we get the GOAT ALL TIME MATCH ALL TIME in Henry/Taker.
Then the next week we get Finlay/Benoit in a tag, and the Angle & Taker/MNM & Orton handicap.
Then the next week we get the AMAZING six man tag.
Then the next week we get the Angle/Taker re-match from NWO

You see where I'm going with this. And it's before I even got to Rey/Finlay, Rey/Orton, Finlay/Benoit, Regal/JBL, Benoit/JBL, Rey/Henry rematch, Henry/Benoit, Mr. Kennedy being shit, etc. Horrible writing throughout the year, yeah, but the consistency of "you will see something bell-to-bell to wet your willy this week" was pretty sublime. In 2012 I was watching it all and stopped at around September (September 2006, not 2012, though that might be when I stopped in 2012 idk) for some reason.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh Smackdown 2006. Feels like a lifetime since I went through that awesomeness .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm-vm8Qjd2M

Was looking for this match, found it on YT. Noticed it has the WWE logo, is this on a DVD anyone know?

Happened on my birthday tho :maisie


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That ending to RAW... :mj2 :mj2

SO DAMN CLOSE!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Batman said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm-vm8Qjd2M
> 
> Was looking for this match, found it on YT. Noticed it has the WWE logo, is this on a DVD anyone know?
> 
> Happened on my birthday tho :maisie


It's from WWE Classics.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:benson


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

At least Ambrose confirmed my thoughts on Lesnar being lazy with his suplex city shit last night. lol


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1996, Ric Flair defeated Eddie Guerrero to retain the United States Title at Hog Wild from the Motorcycle Rally in Sturgis, South Dakota.

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Went to Smackdown last night. Everyone needs to see Mojo Rawley in person. HYPE. And Eva Marie got the biggest pop out of me. Naturally. A good time to be had, imperfections and all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ibushi vs. Alexander is legit a WWE MOTYC for me. God damn.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Went to Smackdown last night. Everyone needs to see Mojo Rawley in person. HYPE. And Eva Marie got the biggest pop out of me. Naturally. A good time to be had, imperfections and all.


Ha, I was actually gonna ask if you'd heard that Royal Rumble was in L.A. next year and see if you were gonna go and now I see this. Sure you had a good time but from what I saw, looked like the show was pretty shitty last night. I'm already done with Ziggler even more than I was before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It'll be on the back of my mind for a bit, deciding if I'll pull the trigger or not. I'm not as close to LA anymore, which makes it mostly the issue to travel. I'm down on the Rumble event as a whole for a while now, but seeing it live is a fairly temping offer. The Smackdown show for example wasn't necessarily "good", but I had a bunch of fun at all that took place. Including giving Dolph grief in person. :cozy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CWC Ep 5 thoughts: http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-5/ :cal2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I forgot about that yesterday. Ha.

TAJIRI vs DORADA omg though. Hyped.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

watching ECW 1997 for the first time ever 










FUNK he gave Brain Lee his only 2 good matches ever :drose


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

CWC this week :lenny

Tajiri/Dorada - *** 1/2
Ibushi/Cedric - *** 3/4

I know Ibushi/Cedric is the match that EVERYONE is talking about (and rightfully so), but how about Tajiri/Dorada? Man Tajiri looked like he hadn't aged a bit with that performance. The mat wrestling in the beginning was excellent and definitely not something I expected to see out of Dorada. Tajiri pulling out the kicks whenever he pleased was basically like a "fuck you and whatever you're doing, this is gonna stop you in your tracks" moment. Kinda wished it didn't end so abruptly with the Dorada Driver, but at least they're selling that as a dangerous move and Tajiri added a nice touch by nearly kicking out at the end. The little things.

-----------------------

Different note, what the hell was that Austin Podcast with Ambrose? That was painfully awkward and Dean acted like he was on some serious painkillers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've been hearing that podcast w/Ambrose was awkward. Still haven't watched, but I'll make some time for it eventually.

Put on disc one of Mysterio's Life of a Masked Man set last night. While I still have 3 more matches to go to finish it, holy shit does it ever cement why I adore Mysterio to begin w/. I _should_ post some singular thoughts on all the matches watched, but wowwowow is it amazing to look back on his career and still be blown away today. The billed first ever match vs Eddie is on the set, it's FANTASTIC for less than six minutes. Easily tells you where the soon after Halloween Havoc 97 match was going to land. Underrated, also first time ever, match vs Jericho immediately follows it. Jericho is a total jerk during the match, hitting GREAT offense on the tiny Rey. Then god damn, that finish is out of this world good. Rey totally sells the back following the flash pin to make it not even close to a lame no sell to pull it off. 

Mysterio <3 (and Eddie and La Parka during this stuff in these matches too)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation, what do you think of Eva Marie? Curious, because I can see you liking the camp of it all, but I also think I remember you not really liking divas like her.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> Obfuscation, what do you think of Eva Marie? Curious, because I can see you liking the camp of it all, but I also think I remember you not really liking divas like her.


She is currently a redhead. He adores her :lmao.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: The TBHayley Litmus Test













this being an actual thing


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Corey said:


> Different note, what the hell was that Austin Podcast with Ambrose? That was painfully awkward and Dean acted like he was on some serious painkillers.


Some guys just don't have chemistry in a conversation. The way that Austin pushes in his podcast conversations is probably not the way Dean likes to have conversations, whereas the more relaxed atmosphere of Jericho's podcast allowed Ambrose to be more engaged in their episode together. With that said, I loved it when Ambrose called out Austin for reading the dirtsheets :lmao.

Speaking of which, why exactly aren't people here enjoying the Ambrose/Ziggler buildup?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking of which, why exactly aren't people here enjoying the Ambrose/Ziggler buildup?


Because Dean's ring work has been lacking and we're all done with Ziggler.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody feeling a lot more cautious about Brock than they were before this whole mess? Now to hear Ambrose say he basically did fuck all for and during their match...I don't know. It's not nice to hear that's for sure. Even still, I'm excited for Lesnar/Orton. I think it's either going to be absolutely crazy or completely shit, I can't see there being a middle ground. I'll probably enjoy it more than most since I'll be there. I just want it to be a fun match more than anything else. Really digging Balor/Rollins too. Ambrose/Ziggler is a joke of a match really. Couldn't care less about that one tbh. The NXT card, which I'm also attending, looks great. Lately the CWC has been pumping out the best content but I'm still looking forward to both NXT and Summerslam. I've watched more wrestling this past month than I have most of 2015/2016 combined I reckon. Good times.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Anybody feeling a lot more cautious about Brock than they were before this whole mess? Now to hear Ambrose say he basically did fuck all for and during their match...I don't know. It's not nice to hear that's for sure. Even still, I'm excited for Lesnar/Orton. I think it's either going to be absolutely crazy or completely shit, I can't see there being a middle ground. I'll probably enjoy it more than most since I'll be there. I just want it to be a fun match more than anything else. Really digging Balor/Rollins too. Ambrose/Ziggler is a joke of a match really. Couldn't care less about that one tbh. The NXT card, which I'm also attending, looks great. Lately the CWC has been pumping out the best content but I'm still looking forward to both NXT and Summerslam. I've watched more wrestling this past month than I have most of 2015/2016 combined I reckon. Good times.


I am a bit yeah tbh. I know he 'doesn't give a fuck' in general but he's said before he still loves performing out there in front of the large crowds so I was a bit surprised to hear what Ambrose said.

Maybe the possibility of going to UFC played into it, or the fact that he was placed in the middle of the card and had restrictions on the actual match in terms of length etc, I don't know.

I just hope he's not got extra lazy and settled into this suplex city shut tbh and took the 'easy way out'.

I do expect more of the same against Orton but I hope he mixes it up, just varying his suplexes would be a nice start. Bring back the backbreaker and what not. He's so much in his arsenal he could use and still keep you his current gimmick IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

From what I've heard and read about Lesnar in the past, he prefers to show up and just get on with it in the ring rather than go over shit backstage. He wasn't that pleased when he had to spend a few months with Taker before their WM match lol, but nobody says no to the DEAD MAN .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> From what I've heard and read about Lesnar in the past, he prefers to show up and just get on with it in the ring rather than go over shit backstage. He wasn't that pleased when he had to spend a few months with Taker before their WM match lol, but nobody says no to the DEAD MAN .


If that's the best they could come up with after spending a few months to go over everything then I'd rather he just show up and wing it. 



The Batman said:


> I am a bit yeah tbh. I know he 'doesn't give a fuck' in general but he's said before he still loves performing out there in front of the large crowds so I was a bit surprised to hear what Ambrose said.
> 
> Maybe the possibility of going to UFC played into it, or the fact that he was placed in the middle of the card and had restrictions on the actual match in terms of length etc, I don't know.
> 
> ...


Most people applaud his IDGAF attitude, including me, but at the same time...he really doesn't give a fuck so I don't know why it should come as a surprise to any of us that he...didn't give a fuck during a match. It's obvious the Suplex City shit is auto pilot. It's an easy night for him if that's the case. I'm a big fan of Brock but I'd be lying if I said the USADA stuff along with Ambrose's comment haven't soured him a little. 

Who knows what we're in store for next week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Obfuscation, what do you think of Eva Marie? Curious, because I can see you liking the camp of it all, but I also think I remember you not really liking divas like her.





Big Cal's World said:


> She is currently a redhead. He adores her :lmao.


This is apt.

The character works for me, more fun among the idea that she even gets heat on the main roster. There's the women like Sasha/Bayley/Asuka signed, then there's room for an Eva Marie type too.



Rah said:


> Spoiler: The TBHayley Litmus Test
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:sodone


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> If that's the best they could come up with after spending a few months to go over everything then I'd rather he just show up and wing it.


TBF I don't think Undertaker getting concussed was the plan .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Had lots of fun last night at the show live in Sydney. 

Finn Balor vs Jericho, Cena vs Styles and Owens vs Zayn was so good to watch live. 

NXT shows announced coming to Australia :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're (Straya) the reason why I didn't get to see Cena or Styles this week. :mj2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah, even I popped a little bit for Cena. The crowd went bonkers for him. Rollins and Owens got nice pops too.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

Lesnar will kill Ambrose and Bryan when he sees them!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> TBF I don't think Undertaker getting concussed was the plan .


True. Although it wasn't all that hot before it happened. Out of all the Streak matches I've been fortunate enough to see live (25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 32), this was definitely the most tepid of the lot. Damn I've spent way too much money on shitty wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well the concussion did happen pretty early into the match lol. Like, 7 or 8 minutes into it .

And be glad you weren't there for WM 31's match .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Well the concussion did happen pretty early into the match lol. Like, 7 or 8 minutes into it .
> 
> And be glad you weren't there for WM 31's match .


I wish I was at 31 and not 32. I feel like I should get a refund for sitting through almost 7 hours of complete shit. Hopefully they make it up to me next week at Summerslam.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I wish I was at 31 and not 32. I feel like I should get a refund for sitting through almost 7 hours of complete shit. Hopefully they make it up to me next week at Summerslam.


Well WM 31 did have an awesome main event. The rest of the event would require a refund too though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Well WM 31 did have an awesome main event. The rest of the event would require a refund too though.


Imagine how it felt watching each and every story play out the exact opposite way it should have, how it felt sitting there for over 6 hours as good guy after good guy lost for no fucking reason and you STILL had a main event to come that nobody even wanted to see. Imagine all that and then imagine you paid around $2000 to sit there and be shit on in person. I'll take 31 as a complete event over 32 any day. It's pretty sad that the Mania 32 weekend experience was awesome but the actual event itself was dog shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For me WM 31 had the main event and nothing else. WM 32 had 2 or 3 good undercard matches and nothing else. Both kinda balance out for me. Glad I spent £0.00 to watch them .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> For me WM 31 had the main event and nothing else. WM 32 had 2 or 3 good undercard matches and nothing else. Both kinda balance out for me. Glad I spent £0.00 to watch them .


Cheapskate. It's clearly a ginger thing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its a smart thing . Only morons pay WWE for anything these days. They don't deserve a penny of anyone's fucking money!


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

Taker vs Mankind at Revenge of The Taker is amazing, probably my favorite match between the two. KOTR 1996 was more of a character match and 1998 was one (iconic) spot. This felt like a war.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> Its a smart thing . Only morons pay WWE for anything these days. They don't deserve a penny of anyone's fucking money!


I'd still like the Attitude Era Vol 3 BD at some point tho tbh. Trouble is paying over £20 for it, which i can't afford atm. 

Chances of finding it second hand could be slim too, but that way, they don't get your money lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which is why I plan on downloading it. Whenever the fuck it shows up online. Seems nobody is buying shit from WWE these days 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> Which is why I plan on downloading it. Whenever the fuck it shows up online. Seems nobody is buying shit from WWE these days 8*D.


True lol, I might just end up doing that tbh. As long as the whole BD shows up, but this is just matches isn't it and not a doc too?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Batman said:


> True lol, I might just end up doing that tbh. As long as the whole BD shows up, but this is just matches isn't it and not a doc too?


Yeah, nothing but matches. Came out last week. Still not online. Uploads for new releases are getting slower and slower these days.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Randy Orton became the youngest World Heavyweight Champion at SummerSlam 2004 in Toronto, Canada.

- Vic


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Love that match a ton. Their re-match on RAW is even better imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Super lazy edition of RAW tonight. We're getting a Best of 7 Series between Sheamus & Cesaro starting at Summerslam (who have just faced each other two weeks in a row on RAW) because I assume they have no idea what else to do with them. I think the better plan imo would be for Mick to say they clearly can't coexist on the same show and made a Loser Leaves RAW match at Summerslam, that way one of them could come over to help Smackdown. Whatevs though. 7 more meaningless matches comin up.

I also absolutely resent the term Demon King after hearing it for a minimum of 300 times tonight. Jesus christ it sounds EXACTLY like you're saying Demon Kane. Stop it!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Raw was the drizzling shits. That is all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hi. Not watching very much of WWE TV at all mainly because what I saw last night was pretty horrid, in addition to several other bits I've watched the last several months. Opening segment was really awful. They still think giving Reigns awful jokes will work for him. Rusev's work was okay but the feud is just bad. Didn't really watch the main event because I couldn't be bothered to watch past the first segment. I really like Balor but putting so much energy into billing someone as the "Demon King" who is like 5'5" is a bit asinine. Whatever though.

Brock/Heyman/Slater segment was decent but Brock telling Slater "I don't give a shit about your kids" was great. Still love Brock. Probably always will.

All that said, I think the Summerslam card is looking really good and I look forward to watching it. Don't think anyone would have predicted that we'd have Ambrose/Ziggler and Balor/Rollins in the two main title matches at Summerslam even just a number of months ago. (Roman getting popped certainly changed their plans for the better imo). Never mind anyone's thoughts on Ziggler, its still a different title match that we might have imagined so let's get behind it. The blowoff for AJ/Cena will be stellar and I'm also looking forward to the women's match. Brock/Orton is pretty much whatever but I can still easily get behind a Brock match. Even Jericho/Owens vs Enzo/Cass should at least be fun for the trash talking heels.


----------



## foodadd (Aug 17, 2016)

Reigns vs. Rollins vs. Styles was a sick match!


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

H said:


> Hi. Not watching very much of WWE TV at all mainly because what I saw last night was pretty horrid, in addition to several other bits I've watched the last several months. Opening segment was really awful. They still think giving Reigns awful jokes will work for him. Rusev's work was okay but the feud is just bad. Didn't really watch the main event because I couldn't be bothered to watch past the first segment. I really like Balor but putting so much energy into billing someone as the "Demon King" who is like 5'5" is a bit asinine. Whatever though.
> 
> Brock/Heyman/Slater segment was decent but Brock telling Slater "I don't give a shit about your kids" was great. Still love Brock. Probably always will.
> 
> All that said, I think the Summerslam card is looking really good and I look forward to watching it. Don't think anyone would have predicted that we'd have Ambrose/Ziggler and Balor/Rollins in the two main title matches at Summerslam even just a number of months ago. (Roman getting popped certainly changed their plans for the better imo). Never mind anyone's thoughts on Ziggler, its still a different title match that we might have imagined so let's get behind it. The blowoff for AJ/Cena will be stellar and I'm also looking forward to the women's match. Brock/Orton is pretty much whatever but I can still easily get behind a Brock match. Even Jericho/Owens vs Enzo/Cass should at least be fun for the trash talking heels.


Dude, watch Smackdown. Raw is not worth the time.

Tonight's SDL was pretty good. The only Raw that has been solid from this brand split was the 1st.
Smackdown is kicking Raw's ass


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Seen bits of Smackdown but my schedule is such that I can't see it when it airs and have little time to go back and watch later. 

Also, just seen that Cesaro/Sheamus at SS kicks off a best of 7 when they've already wrestled twice this month on TV. :lmao I'd actually give them credit if they somehow stretch that to Mania for the lulz.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

The "Infinity War" series feat. Cesaro and Sheamus :lol :lol :lol I mean, I love those guys fighthing, but Zayn/Cesaro in a best of 7 was a better option than this.

Check out the MIZTV with Dean & Dolph, 10 minutes tops. It was solid stuff.
Hell, if you want a good recap, watch Talking Smack on the Network. 26 minutes with Renee and Bryan talking about the things that happened on the show, Bryan even semi-"shooting", they have guest (tonight's guest was John Cena, for example), it's a solid show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown has been forgettable or straight up trash, too. It's all a mess. Slater earns a contract, but then doesn't b/c comedy..? Sheamus can't buy a win, ends up in a best of seven series that's gonna make a PPV. Sami Zayn still winning matches w/no rhyme or reason. Good grief it's all out of sorts. Holy hell at this Balor junk too. The exact same segment w/Rollins, only one he has face paint on and he doesn't in the other. Demon King and Demon Kane to be a cross branded tag team by the end of the year. Ugh. Sad thing is, Kane's actually comes w/character progressions/changes among the personas. Balor is legit the same exact guy w/ or w/o the paint. :lmao

Reigns vs Rusev getting the Christian vs Del Rio treatment from a few years ago. Legit giving away a strong match on TV, when the PPV is right around the corner. I actually skipped the Christian vs Del Rio match the first time out of fear of being spoiled due to replicating the same thing at SummerSlam. Thankfully, both matches were different, but still. I almost did the same w/Reigns vs Rusev in passing it over b/c of this Sunday. While I'm glad I didn't, the idea here is I'm sure others did. And that's the problem. Giving away something you spent weeks building towards and expecting the same reactions for it. All this is sure to mean now is that the PPV match may not even be much of anything or I guess Rusev is probably a lock to get his win back and keep the program going a bit longer. Wait, I just thought of something sillier. This isn't Christian vs Del Rio, it's Cena vs Rollins last year having a match on TV, then leading into SummerSlam. Good grief, it nearly has been a thing 4 years running. Dumbasses.

Top it off, filler six woman tag makes SummerSlam. Guess they wanted people more irrelevant than Apollo Crews to be on the show. 

They make it too fecking easy to rant on this. The novelty of seeing the fun in person is gone. I'm back to reality, and that is, this is garbage.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I finished writing this probably a month ago and forgot to post it. [and as I go to post something here for once I get a goddamn server error]



*WrestleMcMahonia 4/7/13*

Sheamus/Randy Orton/The Big Show v. The Shield
As much as JBL harping on and on about it was annoying, the Shield really did have an “uncanny ability” to make it look like they were in a handicap match when they weren’t. Though I’ll take JBL’s repetition over Michael Cole not being able to name a springshot suplex, despite 15 years as a wrestling commentator. Even though that came to no surprise. This match is pretty awesome. Another line that JBL liked to wring the shit out of was that the Shield were a unit, while the other team were three individuals that just happen to be together. Awesome premise for a match, and one that would have been easy to fuck up, but I thought it was delivered really well. Was there a single team move by Big Irish Viper? Anything to indicate they were a “unit”? Maybe your usual shit, but they never really did feel like a TEAM, especially during those little self-absorption moments. Show tagging himself in when neither of the other two would was really great. It was a hint of hostility, but there was no real super-obvious worry of team implosion. Show added a lot to the match in general because of how hard the Shield had to work to keep him down, putting them over hugely (especially hammering the point of team v. “three individuals”). All three Shield guys were seriously excellent at getting Show over in return, by treating him as Threat #1 that they had to pounce on. The silly bits like Ambrose trying to do Show’s slap were great as well. Sheamus’ double-10 count clubs (w/e) were, also. And the match started with Sheamus/Reigns BEEF. Orton returns the favour to Show by tagging himself in, and it came when Sheamus was dragging himself to get to a hyperventilating Show leaning over the ropes. The actual team break-up not happening until after the match worked way better than if they had some “””surprise””””~ heel turn during. The match just worked from every angle. This might have just gotten lost and buried under a sea of everyone’s favourite Shield tags, but I’m surprised to hear so little about it. WrestleMania openers haven’t exactly lit up the world, so this is automatically one of the best.

Mark Henry v. Ryback
During this “2013-onward catch-up”, Ryback has no sold and been annoying in the face enough to remind why I couldn’t stand him back then. Thought he completely ruined a potentially really good match in that TLC w/ CM Punk, and that’s not because I’m a podcast nerd. Henry hasn’t been on fire in 2013 since return, but I’m a huge squash match fan so he’s kept me having fun. Well except in this match. This did nothing for me. They collide BEEPHY at the beginning and smack each other and it’s OK. Then Henry goes to bearhug mode and it’s boring and Ryback fights back and it’s boring and whatever.

Daniel Bryan/Kane v. BIGGY AND ZIGGY
Another really fun tag. Ziggler’s selling doesn’t looks too much like overselling when he’s on the end of the offense that comes from a 7 footer who’s supposed to be a demon. Big E’s DOMINATE FORCENESS was cool and a nice way to get him over and put Kane in the FIP role. The SPLASH on Kane when Kane was on Ziggler was awesome. Kane’s offense was lame but he did well enough otherwise. Bryan didn’t get enough time as far as I’m concerned but he’s Bryan so his shadow’s always looming over the match, and asking for his involvement is fun for some reason. Helps that they had a hot crowd, and early-match Dolph kissing AJ then nearly losing early callback to WM 3…27??...The year before. 

Chris Jericho v. Fandango 
Y—YES. YES TO ALL OF THIS. Well yes to a third of it. To fuck with Jericho’s half-baked Chris Daniels reversal backyard shit, can he just come back and squash dudes? The rest of the match was decent enough in Fandango getting clever but not clever enough debut-y ways to get out of Jericho’s stuff (Jericho bleeding a little added to it), but I stopped caring once this got really competitive. But the squash bit was awesome. Jericho was just unrelenting for a few minutes in what probably could have become the most enjoyable match from him since that one with Evan Bourne. YES. POUND HIS FACE. YES. CHOP HIM IN THE NIPPLES. YES. THROW HIM OUT AGAIN. HAHAH. 

Alberto Del Rio v. Jack Swagger
S’was pretty good. Swagger’s good at being on top, but can sometimes be kind of lost in what to do next, so I didn’t mind Del Rio fighting back so much. Sort of fit the theme anyway since he started the match so fiery and vengeful. Swagger had a cool transition move where he swept the leg while ADR was on the rope, causing ADR to land back-first onto the top turnbuckle. The finish run was fine. Ankle lock and cross-armbreaker counter naturally into each other. Got kind of tiresome but whatever, it was all right.

The Undertaker v. CM Punk
Didn’t think this was either particularly good or bad. Taker was good enough at being pissy about that hideously lame Paul Bearer stuff, and Punk is always good at acting the weasel you want to see caught and forced-fed a poison cactus. So much so that when he kind of got to work on top for a bit, it bored me to the point of not looking at the screen anymore. It’s a Taker Mania match so it’s bound to be swallowed by tense nearfalls and stuff as well which can go the WM XXV way of “I’m actually into this”, or the HIAC /HHH way of “hahahahahahahahah WHERE IS NOOSE?” Thought here some of that nearfally stuff was all right. The predictable announce table spot got no reaction from me since I am the point of never wanting to see another phony announce table spot again, but it was fine in giving Taker the “oh no a count-out!?” moment (which I always think is pulled off at least sort of well in these kinds of big WWE matches). Match got almost bad once they started hitting finishers. I mean actually hitting them and not just trying to. I thought the sit up from the anaconda vice was charming enough as a Taker no-sell spot, but the GTS/Tombstone thing was truly, truly dumbdumb. Taker takes it right in the face and then just springs against the ropes for the tombstone. Like instead of being hit with a move that pinned John Cena for the WWE Championship – he just went near some onions and had to take a moment to wipe his eyes. Then after that they both slowly get up and trade fists, as if they just came from a double clothesline instead of both guy’s endgame moves. Even the tombstone wasn’t treated how it should be. Highlighted what a garbage cheap pop spot that whole thing was. There was a nearfall after an urn spot that was was all right. I think one of the problems I had with this was how they were trying to sell it as “personal” when the match existed in the first place because of a fucking fourway match on Raw. Then the Paul Bearer stuff comes out of nowhere and everyone’s expected to care. Punk has enough personality to sell almost anything as “personal,” and as I’ve said before is usually a really great “feud” wrestler, but I saw nothing of that here. Basically just an overly dramatic WrestleMania match that WWE obligate themselves to force a special feel on, despite it not actually having one. 

HHH v. Brock Lesnar
HOLD ON. HHH almost owns the company yet Paul Heyman can tell him that he needs to sign the contract before Heyman tells him the stip? AND HOLD ON. HHH needed a “reason” to have a rematch with Lesnar? A reason that WASN’T Brock breaking his arm and his friend’s arm? AND WAIT. Why did Helmsley act like Lesnar might not even show up? AND WAIT A SEC. 

THIS SUCKED.

Ah it wasn’t like AWFUL awful, but only because Lesnar got time to Lesnar everywhere with suplexes and dominance and smiling like a prison rapist. It was a weird match to watch because that stuff was good enough, but every single time Helmsley began to fight back, I had to fight back gagging. Lesnar really did what he could to make HHH’s fluffy fighting back look good, but no dice. Brock could bounce, swing his body, land dementedly on himself (the clothesline over the guardrail early on lead to a really gnarly bump), but 9/10 times HHH’s return to offense just never looked good. Doesn’t help he’s always sucked at fighting back anyway, using those piddly little stomach stomps as his first move after selling most of his career. Ending stuff was so bad. HHH’s REVENGE KIMURA was eye-roll worthy, and quintuple times moreso when he shrugged off those slams onto the steel steps to lock it back in. I think I might owe Taker/Punk a bit of an apology, because THIS is a better example of a match forced into an epic position it had no right belonging near. I don’t exaggerate saying it felt about 45 minutes long. No, I mean I seriously don’t exaggerate saying that. I could have sworn it was twice the length it was. It’s the Bizarro World Rock ‘n’ Roll Express v. Khruschev & Koloff. 

The Rock v. John Cena
I think it’s taken me up until this year to finally get well and truly annoyed at the Rock even showing his face again. I’ve wanted him out for a while, but I’m now thinking I would have preferred if he never came back in 2011. I have warmed up to John Cena in a way that 2008 me would ashamed of, but you know, it’s really true – he’s always been here. A lot of people would consider that a bad thing, but they’d probably defend the Rock if the opposite was true. I’m not one of these bitter wrestling-only fans who thinks ‘Dwaaayyyne’ should have stayed even though he didn’t want to do, but walking in after years like he (still) owns the place, and everyone cheering their head off like he isn’t the corny fucker that they boo Cena for being, has sort of gotten under my skin. I’m at the point where I see ads for a show called “Ballers”, which the Rock stars in, and seeing his face on it makes me want to throw a punch. Kind of worries me because the Rock has generally seemed like a good guy and someone I should have barely a reason to dislike. And even worse than lacking some sort of human decency – this is the first step to AGREEING WITH CAL.

OK I watched the match now. There is *nothing* to talk about. I loved Cena’s mockery of the Rock’s moves and that being a call-back to the previous year’s match (which I wouldn’t have remembered in the slightest without the commentators, as shitty as they are), but they wrestled for what? 20-something minutes? I should have more to talk about than that. They did almost nothing. And anyone reading this should know me on at least some level – move variety doesn’t really do it for me. I consider a match that is mostly punches a possible best ever contender. I just wish the limited amount of stuff they did in this felt like they meant something instead of just filling time. Shame, too, because it had promise on the basic outline of “neither guy wants to make mistake” and “the Rock has the upper hand mostly because of last year.” Just…almost nothing happened. WrestleMania main events are fucking cursed. 



Overall thoughts: 


Spoiler: overall thoughts


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> this is the first step to AGREEING WITH CAL.


Good. Gooooood. This is your first step to the CAL SIDE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Smackdown has been forgettable or straight up trash, too. It's all a mess. Slater earns a contract, but then doesn't b/c comedy..? Sheamus can't buy a win, ends up in a best of seven series that's gonna make a PPV. Sami Zayn still winning matches w/no rhyme or reason. Good grief it's all out of sorts. Holy hell at this Balor junk too. The exact same segment w/Rollins, only one he has face paint on and he doesn't in the other. Demon King and Demon Kane to be a cross branded tag team by the end of the year. Ugh. Sad thing is, Kane's actually comes w/character progressions/changes among the personas. Balor is legit the same exact guy w/ or w/o the paint. :lmao
> 
> Reigns vs Rusev getting the Christian vs Del Rio treatment from a few years ago. Legit giving away a strong match on TV, when the PPV is right around the corner. I actually skipped the Christian vs Del Rio match the first time out of fear of being spoiled due to replicating the same thing at SummerSlam. Thankfully, both matches were different, but still. I almost did the same w/Reigns vs Rusev in passing it over b/c of this Sunday. While I'm glad I didn't, the idea here is I'm sure others did. And that's the problem. Giving away something you spent weeks building towards and expecting the same reactions for it. All this is sure to mean now is that the PPV match may not even be much of anything or I guess Rusev is probably a lock to get his win back and keep the program going a bit longer. Wait, I just thought of something sillier. This isn't Christian vs Del Rio, it's Cena vs Rollins last year having a match on TV, then leading into SummerSlam. Good grief, it nearly has been a thing 4 years running. Dumbasses.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen SD yet, but watching Raw, I honestly wondered if they were intentionally trying to make people not look forward to SS. That's honestly how it seemed for me, and it seems you feel much the same way.

For starters, why in gods name would you have Reigns wrestle FOR 27 MINUTES IN THE MAIN EVENT AGAINST RUSEV.....a week before they have a match at SS. It boggles the mind. Actually, it doesn't boggle, it flat out just doesn't make sense. In this type of situation, where you have the big bad heel champ and the tough young baby face wrestling for a title at a PPV, the smart thing to do is book a non-title match with some sort of stip, like say banning someone from ringside, banning a move, winner picks the rules for the title fight on the PPV, etc. Then when you have the match, just gives the fans a TASTE. We don't need the full 4 course meal, we don't WANT the full 4 course meal on Raw a week before the event. Do a short, 5-6 minute shmozz where no signature moves get done, just an extended brawl in other words. Have it end when Reigns gets the upper hand on Rusev and starts beating him up, and Rusev restarts to grabbing a chair and whacking Reigns, DQ'ing himself. Hell, if they had just left it after Rusev threw Reigns on the catering table as the last shot fans saw before SS, that would have been fine.

The annoying thing is, they are treating Reigns like he's some unknown baby face that needs to be made credible in the fans eyes in order to have a shot a Rusev's title, when it fact it's the other way around. I understand the psychology behind having your baby face win in a non title match heading into a PPV title match, but that's for times when you have a dominant heel champ with loads of credibility and a baby face maybe lacking that same credibility. Ric Flair made a career out of shining up new baby faces on TV in non title matches to get fans to pay to see the title match in person. This is not that scenario, not even close.

For this feud, it's simple. Have Rusev steam roll through jobbers and undercard guys, make him look as dominant as possible. For Reigns, do much the same, just not an all out steam roll and have him beat guys around his level in decisive faction. They don't need to wrestle prior to SS, and if you HAVE to have them face, like I said a 5-6 brawl that ends in a DQ is all that's needed.

Don't even get me started on the Balor ish. Why in gods name would they have him do the full Demon entrance on Raw? Isn't that supposed to be special? Isn't that something fans will pay to see at PPV's? Why even have them do a face to face in ring segment? Isn't less, more, when it comes to a character like Balor's? Actually to be honest I'm not even sure what Balor's character is supposed to be. They missed a HUGE opportunity with him, to make the Demon special, his "Cactus Jack" persona, only to be pulled out in the most dire of circumstances. Then again, Balor is so blah that I don't think he could survive without leaning heavily on the Demon gimmick.


Oh, and the Cesaro/Sheamus Best of 7, Jesus Christ. Those two already had a prolonged, uninteresting, wholly underwhelming feud in 2014. They wrestled a half dozen times then, and still couldn't top the 2013 bout they had on SD! That match remains the pinnacle of what these two can do when they face, and while I really enjoy that match, I don't need to see it 7 different times. We get it, two big badass euros who love laying their shit in stiff. We don't need anymore.

If they had their hearts set on a Best of 7, why not use it to elevate someone like Neville? To my eyes, there is NOTHING Balor has that Neville doesn't have, actually I think Neville is flat out better than Balor. Well, Neville as a heel at least, love his subtle heel stuff from NXT, especially in the Zayn match which is prob the best all around performance I've ever seen from Neville. To my recollection, Neville and Cesaro haven't faced each other, why not do a Best of 7 between them? Or better yet, why not just a best of 5? Everyone overrates the hell out of the Booker/Benoit BO7 series anyway, there are only 3 of those matches that were really good to begin with.

To me, the entire point of a Bo7 series is to elevate two underutilized work horses in the fans eyes. You make the fans appreicate the fact that these two guys are working so hard and managing to keep the matches entertaining and exciting. With that in mind, you've GOT to book a feud with guys who work completely different styles. There is simply no other way to keep the matches fresh and exciting. When two guys work similar styles like Cesaro and Sheamus, are similar build, etc. there are only so many ways a match can go, only so many stories to tell.

With a Neville/Cesaro feud, you could have 1 match where Cesaro's strength is too much for Neville to handle. The next Neville's agility/speed is too much for Cesaro. The next Neville's high flying/high risk style keeps Cesaro on his heels and he can't overcome it. The next, Cesaro counters by working Neville's leg to prevent him from flying around. So Neville counters by going to mat grappling the next match and gains the upper hand, etc. and so on and so on.

I never had a lot of hope things would change with the brand split. So far, my lack of faith seems to be correct. This brand split could have EASILY been the best thing to ever happen to the product, instead it's just.....there.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, SummerSlam 2014 took place from the Staples Center in Los Angeles, California.

- Vic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown may not be great as well, but it's way more watchable than Raw simply because it's two hours. Now that it means something it's much, much easier to watch and watch storylines advance in two hours. There's clear laziness, though, such as throwing all the tag teams in the division in one single match and then all the women in another segment. It's just lazy. The buildup for Crews/Miz has been absolute shit. I can't really blame them since Crews is awful on the main roster and has no character other than happy-go-lucky smiling guy. Miz is so far ahead of him in terms of everything except in-ring work. 

I look forward to seeing what they do after Summerslam because they really have to build up that mid-card. Off the top of my head, it's now only Miz, Kalisto, Corbin and Crews. I'm guessing ADR is out the door. Benjamin has to have surgery. I don't think they have it in them to build up Hawkins and/or Slater to be legitimate mid-card mainstays (although Slater is fucking awesome and should totally be there, and this storyline is getting him over with the crowd so hopefully it leads to something - please put him on SD, though, because he'll just get lost in the shuffle on Raw [if you think I'm wrong, look at Sami fucking Zayn]). It doesn't help that Raw is also getting the whole god damn Cruiserweight division. Smackdown better be getting AT LEAST one of Nakamura/Joe, and hopefully a Dillinger for their mid-card.


Raw thoughts off the top of my head:

- the opening segment was whatever. When you compare it to recent Smackdown openings with Ambrose/Ziggler, Raw openings don't even hold a candle to them.

- Sheamus/Zayn never got to the level I expected of them. And sweet, Sheamus/Cesaro in a best-of-7... yawn. Don't get me wrong, the matches will be good, but ffs, Cesaro just beat him twice in a row. How many matches are they gonna have?

- Jeri-KO is probably the best thing on Raw right now. I doubt Owens is going to get a main event shot anytime soon, so hopefully these two stick together until Jericho leaves at the end of the year.

- The tag title match has been built around testicles for the past three weeks. Think about that.

- I'm just tired of the same old Heyman promo for the past two-and-a-half years. I love Heyman, but it's the same thing with a few different references here and there every time. At least this segment was made better by Slater and Lesnar finally saying a damn word (and then telling Slater he didn't give a shit about his kids.).

- I don't care about The Prime Time Players or The Shining Stars.

- I don't care about Jinder Mahal either. I didn't follow him since his release, but I guess he couldn't make a name for himself on the indies so he took whatever peanuts WWE offered him to be their job guy.

- I can go in a full-on rant about giving away Demon Balor on Monday Night Raw in Corpus fucking Christi, but it's not even worth my energy. I'll just say it was stupid as fuck, and this company has no patience and just can't help themselves. And to make it worse, Demon Balor got into a physical brawl with Rollins and showed casuals that there's nothing different about Demon Balor with the exception of his paint and entrance. No different moves, seemingly the same about of energy and aggression as regular Balor -- then again, maybe I'm biased because I'm not the biggest Balor fan out there. I don't know what they were thinking.

- 25 fucking minutes for Reigns/Rusev *SIX DAYS* before their title match at Summerslam. Fucking seriously? AND IT WAS A CLEAN WIN. Why even have the Summerslam match? To give Rusev a DQ win or something? Ugh.

Raw sucked and the honeymoon phase is dead with "new era" Raws. They've fallen back into the same pattern as pre-draft and now they have an even thinner roster to work with.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd probably take Miz over Apollo in the ring too tbh. Crews has quite literally done _nothing_ for me since coming to the main roster.

So Paige and Del Rio got suspended 30 days each for violating the wellness policy. Who knows for what, but I'd be a little surprised if we see ADR back on TV again. Feel like he's on the way out.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


> *I'd probably take Miz over Apollo in the ring too tbh. Crews has quite literally done nothing for me since coming to the main roster.*
> 
> So Paige and Del Rio got suspended 30 days each for violating the wellness policy. Who knows for what, but I'd be a little surprised if we see ADR back on TV again. Feel like he's on the way out.


Damn right Miz > Apollo in the ring. Miz getting the shit kicked outta him and picking up dirty wins or getting DQ'ed or counted out because Maryse broke a finger nail is still way more entertaining than what Crews has been doing. I've seen standing moonsaults and kip-ups before motherfucker, stop smiling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)




----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


>


It's so annoying yet strangely hilarious, who the fuck can take that mug seriously :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

He was doomed from the start with that horrible name choice.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You guys need some more positive vibes. Build up to Summerslam has been excellent. From the bottom of the card all the way to the major matches, I have little reason to be disappointed. Even Brock Lesnar is interesting now. And that's a rarity.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My views on the Summerslam card:

Lesnar/Orton - Build has been much better than expected. No clue how the match is gonna work if we end up with the same suplex city stuff, but we'll see. Crowd should be hot for it hopefully.

Rollins/Balor - Match on paper should hopefully be great, but debuting the "Demon King" on RAW to very little reaction was a dumb idea imo and I fucking loathe the name already. Also kinda strange that Balor hasn't wrestled a match since winning this opportunity weeks ago. Certainly has MOTN potential and I'd love to see a double turn but doubt it happens. Rooting for Rollins.

Ambrose/Ziggler - Don't care... like at all. You can only try and rebuild someone so many times for me to just not give a shit anymore. Not to mention Ambrose hasn't done much for me in recent months in the ring.

Cena/Styles - Probably looking forward to this most on the show because I really think AJ is going over clean, which should put him into the title picture. Their match at MITB was cut short due to the interference so hopefully they go all out here.

Reigns/Rusev - 26 minute main event on RAW. What else could they really do here? Shock us all and have Rusev go over clean?

Miz/Crews - zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sasha/Charlotte - Should be a great match.

New Day/Club - Buildup has been funny and The Club are being ruthless, so I'm hoping the title change comes here. Match may not be as good as it could be with Big E involved, but who knows. The switch needs to happen so we can have more credible teams.

Cesaro/Sheamus - Pointless. Give me a reason to care and I certainly would.

JeriKO vs. Enzo & Cass - Should be fun. No problem with it.

Smackdown Women's Tag - Don't care.

Sami Zayn is not on this card after winning an incredible match and feud ender at Battleground. Alright.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH v. Brock Lesnar
> HOLD ON. HHH almost owns the company yet Paul Heyman can tell him that he needs to sign the contract before Heyman tells him the stip? AND HOLD ON. HHH needed a “reason” to have a rematch with Lesnar? A reason that WASN’T Brock breaking his arm and his friend’s arm? AND WAIT. Why did Helmsley act like Lesnar might not even show up? AND WAIT A SEC.
> 
> THIS SUCKED.
> ...


Then we got that fucking cage match a month later

:maisie3

Hey tho, we got a great Lesnar sell job. Fuck off HHH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I finished writing this probably a month ago and forgot to post it. [and as I go to post something here for once I get a goddamn server error]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man, I flat out loved Taker/Punk. I got tired of the "Streak match formula" quicker than most people, but even I found plenty to enjoy about that match.

I've discussed this ad nauseum with another person here, but I honestly never saw the GTS/Tombstone spot as a flat out no-sell, I really thought they were intentionally trying to convey that Punk didn't manage to connect with the GTS. Especially because Michael Cole even says it on commentary "He didn't get it all!" or something like that. Cole is absolutely abysmal at picking up on story telling queues for the most part, so him saying that sort of confirmed to me Punk or Taker might have made a point to tell Cole prior to the match to make sure to pick up on Punk not connecting with the GTS.

The other big reason I feel like they were trying to convey Punk missing the GTS was simply that Punk, in every single interview I've ever seen of him, comes across as someone who would NEVER pull a horseshit spot like that, ESPECIALLY in a match with that much significance, ESPECIALLY when it's his own move being no-sold. Punk in interviews constantly trashes nonsensical no-selling and lack of psychology, I find it very hard to believe he would turn around and have a spot where his finisher gets no sold, in a WM match. I mean, he said once he never wanted to give Samoa Joe the Pepsi Plunge during their first two matches in ROH together because he didn't want Joe to kick out of it, because finishers should he protected at all costs.


Who knows though, maybe you are right. He did say on the Cabana podcast he wrestled that match with a death wish and was trying to kill/injure/maim himself because he knew he was going away after WM 29 for surgery, anyway.

Either way, the Punk/Taker WM 29 match is one of my top 3 fave Streak matches to watch, alongside the WM 23 Batista match and the WM 18 Flair match. That match was the only memorable thing about that entire crummy show, to me at least.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Man, I flat out loved Taker/Punk. I got tired of the "Streak match formula" quicker than most people, but even I found plenty to enjoy about that match.
> 
> I've discussed this ad nauseum with another person here, but I honestly never saw the GTS/Tombstone spot as a flat out no-sell, I really thought they were intentionally trying to convey that Punk didn't manage to connect with the GTS. Especially because Michael Cole even says it on commentary "He didn't get it all!" or something like that. Cole is absolutely abysmal at picking up on story telling queues for the most part, so him saying that sort of confirmed to me Punk or Taker might have made a point to tell Cole prior to the match to make sure to pick up on Punk not connecting with the GTS.
> 
> ...


It's entirely possible you're right. I never trust WWE's commentary team with stuff like that though because they cover up for botches as if people don't make mistakes. This one's different because it wasn't a botch and was a match decision, but I got the same stuttery cover-up vibe from it. I agree Punk is just not that kind of guy, too. Really the spot kind of confuses me in general now that I'm thinking about it. Brain hurt.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Taker-Punk was really, really good. I loved it. I haven't watched it in a while, though, but I remember having it as one of my WWE MOTYC for that year.


I'm glad to see people liking Miz's in-ring work more than Apollo's. :lmao I thought I was just being a hater lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Batman said:


> Then we got that fucking cage match a month later
> 
> :maisie3
> 
> Hey tho, we got a great Lesnar sell job. Fuck off HHH.


:lol I wonder if it holds up after all these years, remember it being good Brock randomly playing the FIP, btw what happened to your DM channel?

Excited for Summerslam just for the simple fact Ziggler is doing something and is in actually something meaningful. The first promo was really good, this new one was kinda meh (plz dont make him UBER serious HEEL). I like the stuff Dean is saying to him just as much tho I must admit.

Cena/Styles has my attention as MITB was one of 4 matches I've seen this year and I enjoy'd it as well as the two being the only other people besides Ziggler I remotely care about


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SAEBA said:


> :lol I wonder if it holds up after all these years, remember it being good Brock randomly playing the FIP, btw what happened to your DM channel?


I honestly havn't watched it since it first aired lol. I was just so fucking pissed at that booking that I just couldn't bring myself to resit it again.

My DM channel is still going mate, just removed it from my sig.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's entirely possible you're right. I never trust WWE's commentary team with stuff like that though because they cover up for botches as if people don't make mistakes. This one's different because it wasn't a botch and was a match decision, but I got the same stuttery cover-up vibe from it. I agree Punk is just not that kind of guy, too. Really the spot kind of confuses me in general now that I'm thinking about it. Brain hurt.


 I just can't fathom Punk, in a match with Taker who himself is one of the very best when it comes to keeping his matches in the realm of believability (which is incredible since his character is supposed to be a supernatural force from Hell :lol) would flat out COMPLETELY no sell a finishing move, ala Ultimate Warrior. It just is so completely out of character for both guys I have to believe it was meant to be how you saw it.

Then again, one of my all time favorite spots in any Taker match is when the Deadman takes a SCM from HBK in their HiaC match, but when Michaels goes to cover him, Taker does his sit up spot and Michaels does one of the best "I've seen a ghost......and also possibly shit myself, too" sell jobs this side of HHH's selling of Cactus Jack's return on Raw in 97' and SD! in '00. It's just priceless.

Even then, Taker does go down from the SCM and does lay on the mat for a few moments, in the WM match he barely even registers the shot, he registers about as much as baby face Steve Austin does when a heel gets off 1 lucky punch while Austin is shining to start a match by just repeatedly punching his opponent in the face :lmao That makes me believe it was really intended to be a glancing blow.

The other possibility is, it WASNT meant to be a glancing blow, but since Punk legitimately did NOT connect with it at all Taker made the decision on the fly not to sell it in order to keep the fans suspension of disbelief up. We've all seen matches where a guy sells something that obviously, OBVIOUSLY, didn't connect. It sucks. If it's bad enough it can flat out kill the match. That could be what happened.

Unrelated, but Jericho wrote in his book that one time Benoit did 500 hindu squats right after a match because he sold an enziguiri from Jericho in Japan that missed by a mile. He was so mad at himself for insulting the fans intelligence that he punished himself by doing 500 Hindu squats immediately after the match ended, so Jericho decided to join in since it was his kick that sucked, but Jericho ended up badly over exerting himself because he wasn't a a complete freak about fitness the way Benoit was, to the point Jericho could barely move for the next week and had to work 6 man tags :lmao



RatedR10 said:


> Taker-Punk was really, really good. I loved it. I haven't watched it in a while, though, but I remember having it as one of my WWE MOTYC for that year.
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see people liking Miz's in-ring work more than Apollo's. :lmao I thought I was just being a hater lol.





SAEBA said:


> :lol I wonder if it holds up after all these years, remember it being good Brock randomly playing the FIP, btw what happened to your DM channel?
> 
> Excited for Summerslam just for the simple fact Ziggler is doing something and is in actually something meaningful. The first promo was really good, this new one was kinda meh (plz dont make him UBER serious HEEL). I like the stuff Dean is saying to him just as much tho I must admit.
> 
> Cena/Styles has my attention as MITB was one of 4 matches I've seen this year and I enjoy'd it as well as the two being the only other people besides Ziggler I remotely care about



I've been as critical of Miz's ring work as anyone here. He has always been in the Kofi class for me of guys who just flat out do not understand how to wrestle. I had him written off completely.

Credit @seabs for changing my view on this. I'm not saying Miz is a great worker now, or even a good worker, but he isn't the drizzling shits like Apollo is, that's for damn sure. I'll take watching Miz ANYDAY over that garbage ass Apollo work.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Michael Cole commented that Punk hit Undertaker in the chest and didn't manage to get full effect from his finisher; hence Undertaker managing to come back. It's The Undertaker so it's 99% probable he just decided to no-sell the move, because undead zombie or some horseshit, but I glossed over it as part of the narrative when I watched the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on the CWC this week  http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-6/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm one of very few people who thought both Punk/Taker and Lesnar/HHH were both great (I know Cody liked HHH/Lesnar too but that was years ago ). As some of you have already said, Taker/Punk was incredible and honestly might just be my favorite Streak match ever. Punk's performance is wonderful and those nearfalls really got me. It's a shame that it's not talked about more by the general audience as most people love the stuff with HBK & HHH.

HHH/Lesnar grew on me on the 2nd viewing. I thought the story was actually great since Hunter had to damn near kill Lesnar to win. It was like what, 3 sledgehammer shots and a pedigree on the steps or something? Lesnar was absolutely beastly in that too Remember seeing him and thinking he was the biggest he'd ever been in his career.  Underrated match imo and by far the best in their series too.

Shame that Cena/Rock II had to happen that year and bring the entire event down. What a shitfest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> My thoughts on the CWC this week  http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-6/


Lemme guess "Flippy flippy FUCK YOU ZACK SABRE JR. FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCK. IVE TAKEN SHITS WITH MORE TALENT YOU WANKER!" :lol

Actually that would be a GREAT idea for Big Cal's world. Make a video of yourself watching a Zack Sabre Jr. match. I'd pay a subscription fee just to see the look on your face while he's prancing around doing his circus act :lmao


I'll check it out in a second, did you get the AE Vol. 3 unreleased thingy yet? I just got it today, I believe Zeppers did too, can't wait to see if there are any hidden gems.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Lemme guess "Flippy flippy FUCK YOU ZACK SABRE JR. FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCK. IVE TAKEN SHITS WITH MORE TALENT YOU WANKER!" :lol
> 
> Actually that would be a GREAT idea for Big Cal's world. Make a video of yourself watching a Zack Sabre Jr. match. I'd pay a subscription fee just to see the look on your face while he's prancing around doing his circus act :lmao
> 
> ...


ZSJ wasn't on this episode. And you might be surprised to see what I think of the guy when he has been on the show .

Nope, not got AE Vol 3. Waiting for it to show up online. I refuse to pay the price over here. Oh Silvervision, how I miss thee.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> ZSJ wasn't on this episode. And you might be surprised to see what I think of the guy when he has been on the show .
> 
> Nope, not got AE Vol 3. Waiting for it to show up online. I refuse to pay the price over here. Oh Silvervision, how I miss thee.


If you're actually a fan of Sabre's, or at least don't find what he does inherently offensive to your senses, then I am once and for all done trying to predict how you will feel about certain guys/matches. How is it, the guy who appreciates a old fashioned punch right in the face more than just about any wresrling fan I know, could enjoy a Sabre match? You are a man of constant surprises and mystery, sir.

Personally, unless he was put with someone like Finlay (who I discovered has a Twitter account, because he tweeted "Not a fan of Zack Sabre Jr. At all. :lol), who wouldn't stand for his BS and would beat the everlasting piss out of him in the most entertaining way possible, I just can't stand even seeing him on my television screen. I've always thought I was ridiculously skinny, and even I have about 10lbs of muscle on Sabre. Plus, he just insults me with his every action in the ring. If he was a straight up comedy act I could get into it, it's the fact that he tries to be taken seriously as a grappler that makes me find no amusement in his work.

I was planning on watching all the CWS stuff once it's actually over, and cherry picking the good stuff, because I just don't have enough time anymore to watch bad Wrestling. The limited time I do have needs to be spent on catching up on good stuff. What has happened so far that's worth a watch, beyond those two matches you obviously liked in the review you just posted?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The week before was totally worth a watch too. Tajiri's first match. Maybe something else. I forget things.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cal, please review this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Chris, watch these:

Kota Ibushi vs. Sean Maluta (1st Round)
The Brian Kendrick vs. Raul Mendoza (1st Round, probably my personal favorite so far)
Tommaso Ciampa vs. Johnny Gargano (1st Round, just to get an opinion of this yourself. It's a bit divisive)

Tajiri vs. Gran Metalik (2nd Round)
Kota Ibushi vs. Cedric Alexander (2nd Round, universally praised by just about everyone)

Jack Gallagher vs. Fabian Aichner from the 1st round was good and unique as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I legit keep forgetting Cena vs Styles II is happening on Sunday.

Sums up thoughts and expectations on the show right there. That I'm forgetting about JOHN CENA matches.

CWC matches worth seeing:

Metallik vs Saez
Ibushi vs Maluta
Tozawa vs Johnson
Sabre Jr vs Dux
Kendrick vs Mendoza
Gallagher vs Aichner

Haven't started the second round yet.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tozawa vs. Gallagher - *** 3/4
Dar vs. Ho Ho Lun - ??? (like Cal said)
Kendrick vs. Nese - *** 1/4

What a showing from Gallagher. He got over _real_ quick with that crowd. Thought this was a lot like Ibushi/Cedric with the way they made Gallagher look like a million bucks but the guy that ended up going over was the guy you likely expected to. Leg work was great and entertaining (which isn't easy to do with limb work) and the struggle in the last sequence with the german was beautiful. Awesome match. I can picture Bryan grinning ear to ear with some of the stuff Jack was doing.

Has Noam Dar been stuck with the two worst opponents out of anyone else in the tournament? I'd say so. Another instantly forgettable match. Ho Ho Lun is awful.

I liked Kendrick/Nese for a good amount of time but some parts of it felt rushed to me and I think they peaked a little early. That Bully Choke sequence where Nese powered out like immediately and ended up being rolled through to it again was fantastic and I think it should've ended shortly after that, maybe with Kendrick getting a rollup out of one of Nese's attempts at a power move or something? Idk. Nese tapping quickly at the end was a bit strange to me because he was so close to the ropes. Would've preferred a little more of a struggle, but oh well. Still a good match no doubt. Tozawa/Gallagher probably should've main evented here though imo.

Next week's show quite literally looks like an EVOLVE card from last year. All 6 guys were once full time roster members (maybe not Dorado but I know they've used him).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> The week before was totally worth a watch too. Tajiri's first match. Maybe something else. I forget things.


I should have said "I'm holding off on watching all the CWC stuff till it's over, EXCEPT Tajiri matches.." Cause, come on dude, being a member of this thread there is no way in hell I wasn't gonna watch Tajiri. I'm actually surprised Tajiri hasn't had one of these threads named after him yet, considering he's one of our patron saints.

It was so damn cool seeing him come out in a WWE ring again and immediately just start throwing those gorgeous kicks left and right again. I watched that match, and the Dux/Sabre match for the lulz.

If I'm being honest, outside of Ibushi, Tajiri, Sabre, Kendrick, and maybe 1-2 other guys tops, I don't have the foggiest idea who most of these guys are. That's the real reason I've been waiting in recs, I don't know who to look out for :lol



Corey said:


> Chris, watch these:
> 
> Kota Ibushi vs. Sean Maluta (1st Round)
> The Brian Kendrick vs. Raul Mendoza (1st Round, probably my personal favorite so far)
> ...


Thank you very much sir (Y)



Obfuscation said:


> I legit keep forgetting Cena vs Styles II is happening on Sunday.
> 
> Sums up thoughts and expectations on the show right there. That I'm forgetting about JOHN CENA matches.
> 
> ...


Did you like Cena/Styles I?

Am I the only one in here that hates Sabre lol? I am amazed you like him, I stomach a lot more nonsense than you do normally and even I can't stomach him. Oh well.

Thanks for the recs bud, I'm almost through disc 1 of the AE Unreleased vol. 3 set (it's pretty great so far, although the lack of commentary is a bummer at times. Wish they woulda gotten Joey Styles and Mick Foley or someone to do overdubbed commentary) and I'm feeling like a change of pace so some CWS sounds downright appetizing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For the record, I've rapidly lost interest in Sabre. He's won far too many major tournaments/titles and suffered from overexposure imo. His facials expressions are awful and his "technical prowess" just comes off as him getting his shit in despite whatever direction the match is going in. I actually get annoyed with how he can seemingly get out of any hold imaginable and make it look _too_ easy like he was never in any pain or in trouble beforehand (aka not selling for your opponent).

Someone else on the forum described him as a miniature Giant Baba which is pretty hilarious too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MAN. Did anyone else get some SERIOUS feels during the aftermath of Ibushi/Alexander? Fuck. The match itself was really really good, prob in the **** area, but the aftermath raised it up another level, for me at least. I don't know, nor does it really even matter in the long run, whether Hunter was being serious and intends on giving this kid a developmental deal. What I do know is, he just wrestled what was likely the best match of his career, or at least the most memorable for him personally, against an opponent who he has looked up to and emulated for years in Ibushi. He did it on the biggest stage he's ever been on, and he did it with the most important person in the wrestling business as far as signing talent goes sitting behind the curtain watching his every move. Those were legitimate tears of joy, you can't fake that stuff, and I just feel really happy for that kid and hope he makes something of himself. He definitely needs to find a character and polish up some of the rough edges, but it just makes me feel good seeing someone get a shot at their dream and knock it out of the park. Good for you Cedric.

Oh, and opener with Tajiri was great, of course. Love, LOVE Tajiri working Lucha guys, his style always meshes really really well with the good luchadors it seems. I love Tajiri's mat work too, everything is so believable and crisp. 


Good stuff (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Michael Cole commented that Punk hit Undertaker in the chest and didn't manage to get full effect from his finisher; hence Undertaker managing to come back. It's The Undertaker so it's 99% probable he just decided to no-sell the move, because undead zombie or some horseshit, but I glossed over it as part of the narrative when I watched the match.


Yes that's it. Rings the bells in my head. Which brings up another question - is Punk so incompetent he couldn't land his own finisher probably? I don't think Taker did anything to avoid the hit to the face. Ah whatever I'm not over-dissecting another match I don't even like.


Downloaded Cruiserweight Classic Ep 1 and 2. eeeeoooooooop


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Shawn Michaels defeated Vader to retain the WWF Championship at SummerSlam 1996 from the Gund Arena in Cleveland, Ohio.

- Vic


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

new new new new world order

re watching wcw/nwo stuff, oh the memories

here's a question though, im in a survivor series mood, and i've got all ppvs from 1987-1995 and 1999-2003, whats the best PPV from that lot?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Vic Capri said:


> On this day, Shawn Michaels defeated Vader to retain the WWF Championship at SummerSlam 1996 from the Gund Arena in Cleveland, Ohio.
> 
> - Vic


I think I'm a bigger fan of this match than just about anyone I've come across. The finish is whatever, the match is fucking outstanding though. I just wish to God Vader had fucking ripped HBK's head off with a short arm clothesline or something after he pulled that punk move by stomping him, would have made it a ***** match for me :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> here's a question though, im in a survivor series mood, and i've got all ppvs from 1987-1995 and 1999-2003, whats the best PPV from that lot?


Survivor Series is the one PPV where there's a bunch of years I haven't seen, but from what you listed I can definitely say to check out 2002. A really great show from top to bottom and I still love the original chamber match. What I've seen from 1995 is pretty good as well.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Just quickly back on Lesnar/HHH from a page or two ago, I hated their Wrestlemania match so bad (I hated that entire Wrestlemania) that I completely said "fuck you" to their steel cage match and skipped that match. I haven't watched it to this day. Even their Summerslam match was whatever to me. Those two do not mesh well.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, SummerSlam 2012 took place from the Staples Center in Los Angeles, California.




King Kenny said:


> here's a question though, im in a survivor series mood, and i've got all ppvs from 1987-1995 and 1999-2003, whats the best PPV from that lot?


As a whole? Survivor Series 1987 and Survivor Series 2003.




RatedR10 said:


> that I completely said "fuck you" to their steel cage match and skipped that match.


You should watch it. It made up for Triple H's pointless Wrestlemania win.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Getting everyone possible on the card... but where's Kalisto vs. Corbin? They actually have a thing going. 

Bottom match is a 12 man tag btw.

EDIT: Cesaro/Sheamus has apparently been moved to the preshow as well. http://www.wwe.com/shows/summerslam/2016/cesaro-vs-sheamus


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fucking hell. Too much wrestling in a single night. Jeez.


----------



## Eliko (Oct 2, 2014)

*"Randy Orton - RKO Outta Nowhere" DVD trailer & full content listing*












A new DVD/Blu-ray compilation on Randy Orton will be released on November 14th in the UK, and on November 15th in the US. The title of the DVD will be “Randy Orton – RKO Outta Nowhere.”









Here is the full content listing for the DVD:


DISC 1

Randy Orton vs. Johnny Spade – OVW • June 24, 2000

Randy Orton vs. Flash Flanagan – RAW [Un-Televised]• April 16, 2001

Randy Orton vs. Prototype (John Cena) – OVW • June 16, 2001

WWE Undisputed Championship Match: Undertaker vs. Randy Orton – SmackDown • May 30, 2002

6-Man Elimination Tag Team Match: Dudley Boyz vs. Evolution – RAW • July 14, 2003

Intercontinental Championship Match: Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton – RAW • July 5, 2004

Intercontinental Championship Match: Edge vs. Randy Orton – RAW • July 19, 2004

Randy Orton vs. Triple H – RAW [Un-Televised] • December 13, 2004



DISC 2

D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO – Cyber Sunday • November 5, 2006

WWE Championship Match: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton – Survivor Series • November 18, 2007

WWE Championship Match: Jeff Hardy vs. Randy Orton – Royal Rumble • January 27, 2008

Last Man Standing Match: Randy Orton vs. CM Punk – Extreme Rules • May 1, 2011

Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler – RAW • August 29, 2011



DISC 3

Steel Cage Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton vs. Christian – SmackDown • August 30, 2011

Money in the Bank Ladder Match: CM Punk vs. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton vs. Christian vs. Rob Van Dam – Money in the Bank • July 14, 2013

TLC Unification Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship: John Cena vs. Randy Orton – Tables, Ladders, Chairs • December 15, 2013

Randy Orton vs. Dean Ambrose – RAW • July 7, 2014

Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins – WrestleMania 31 • March 29, 2015

#1 Contenders Triple Threat Match: Randy Orton vs. Kevin Owens vs. Cesaro – RAW • August 10, 2015



BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

Intercontinental Championship Match: Randy Orton vs. Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood • June 13, 2004

No Holds Barred Match for the World Heavyweight Championship

Randy Orton vs. Christian – SummerSlam • August 14, 2011

Randy Orton vs. Damien Sandow – NXT • March 27, 2013

Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs. The Shield – SmackDown • June 14, 2013


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: "Randy Orton - RKO Outta Nowhere" DVD trailer & full content listing*

Meh.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

*Re: "Randy Orton - RKO Outta Nowhere" DVD trailer & full content listing*

I feel like one of the AWESOME Raw main events with Daniel Bryan should defintely be there. I think they did three, and ALL were really fantastic (much better than their title matches).

Also, I know it's controversial and they won't release the match because of who was in it, but I'm surprised that you don't see Orton/Benoit match from Summerslam on here. At the time, that was his first World Title win, and he was the youngest to win it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That Summerslam 12-man tag is an almost ironically meta take on the futility of NXT as a developmental programme.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched Tajiri vs Gran Metallik rn. LOVED it. :mark: All jazzed up now that it ended. I was going kind of wild during it just due to excitement to see how it played out. Second round already delivering like how I had hoped by this alone.

Now to see if this Ibushi match meets up w/the standards. It's a lack of interest in Alexander that I'm unsure if it'll pop.

Random side note match: the four way Ladder match from Armageddon 06 is still the fecking tops. Outstanding mayhem. Even on a stacked 06 thanks to Smackdown, this is HIGH ranking match on the year. I knew ladder matches once upon a time were excellent; miss those days.



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Did you like Cena/Styles I?
> 
> Am I the only one in here that hates Sabre lol? I am amazed you like him, I stomach a lot more nonsense than you do normally and even I can't stomach him. Oh well.
> 
> Thanks for the recs bud, I'm almost through disc 1 of the AE Unreleased vol. 3 set (it's pretty great so far, although the lack of commentary is a bummer at times. Wish they woulda gotten Joey Styles and Mick Foley or someone to do overdubbed commentary) and I'm feeling like a change of pace so some CWS sounds downright appetizing.


Not really. Just another forgettable "big" match in the WWE PPV machine over these last few years that has made way for more disappointments, than achievements.

Sabre's stuff in PWG doesn't do anything for me, but I like his stuff the most in Japan (Europe too depending on the opponent, but def the NOAH work is where he shines brightest for me). There is a back to back series of tags he has w/Ogawa vs Ishimori/Kotoge from 2014 that are terrific. The first match in Korakuen he's outstanding during. A total monster stretching the BRAVE juniors out.

Oh and b/c I suck and never replied, yes, I absolutely loved Zayn vs Nakamura. It's the best thing this year, if not Zayn vs Owens from Battleground.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just saw the Zayn thing for SummerSlam.

*sigh*

Honestly, they could have BUILT that to be a midcard grudge and I'd be ok w/it. Instead it's out of the blue and just there to save face. I do like the idea of Zayn getting bullied by Bubba though. But damn the laziness. SummerSlam is the new WM where they just want everyone on the card for the annual mega show.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Zayn and Owens should have never been drafted to the same brand in the first place. It should be Zayn vs. Miz at Summerslam for the title.


dat NXT tag title match. God, The Revival is so good. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Aries/Jose - ***
Moon/Kay - **
Roode/Almas - ***
Revival/DIY - ****1/4
Asuka/Bayley - ****
Nakamura/Joe - ****

Nakamura and Roode's entrances get 10 stars each, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

First take of Brooklyn. Wasn't properly watched in the latter half though because I was either drinking or having a fantasy football draft.

Aries vs. Jose - *** 1/2 (Jose has a good look and can work, but he's not going anywhere on the main roster with that gimmick)

Billie Kay vs. Ember Moon - N/R (good debut)

Roode vs. Almas - *** (Missed Roode's GLORIOUS entrance but his finisher is weak as fuck. Too basic)

Revival vs. Ciampa & Gargano - **** 1/4 (Jesus, that might've been better than all the American Alpha matches. Sooooooooooo many close calls and incredible work throughout the match. Revival are pure gold.)

Asuka vs. Bayley - *** 3/4

Joe vs. Nakamura - *** 1/2ish (This didn't seem all that exciting but I wasn't paying attention all that closely either. Will need to go back and check it out again, but Nakamura's entrance was magical)


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Good times.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Aries/Jose - **3/4
Ember/Jessie - **1/4
Roode/Almas - ***1/4
Revival/Indies - ****
Asuka/Bayley - ***1/2-***3/4 (undecided)
Joe/Nakamura - ***1/2

Opener felt like a carryjob from Aries, though I appreciate Jose clocking in the necessary aggression. Far better than I expected, and further proves my point that Aries can get good matches out of anybody.

I enjoyed the hell out of Ember's debut. I kinda have a hard on for Jessie McKay/Billie Kay/whatever, and seeing her beat the shit out of other girls is always cool. Ember also looked good there. Let's see what the future awaits for these chicks.

GLORIOUS!!! Roode/Almas was so simple, yet so good imho. Reviews are kinda underrating it. No, it wasn't special or anything, but both men played their characters to a T, the crowd was into it strongly, and they clicked nicely. Almas' best showing, and Roode was GLORIOUS from the 1st moment. Dat entrance tho.

Hate to admit it, but the Legion Of Bingo Halls stole the show. I don't like Ciampa, that's why I'm saying that, and I had a hard time getting into him as a babyface (I do like Gargano, tho). That being said, The Revival put on the best damn performance I've seen from them, the crowd was bananas, and the amount of cockteasing false finishes was extremely riveting. And just the little details they did... so good. Tag Team wrestling - pretty easy, and totally fullfilling. I still like AA/Revival from The End more, but this is definitely up there.

Asuka/Bayley was a bit too no-selly for me, even if some of it had a storyline purpose but whatever, and the ending felt pretty abrupt. But it was still a damn good time, w/Asuka putting on a Brock Lesnar-ish performance w/the beatdowns via hard kicks and the smiling and everything, and Bayley was just her plucky self as per usual. Hopefully Bayley goes finally on to move to the MR, cause even though she'll be killed there, she's far above NXT at this point.

Joe/Nakamura was a little underwhelming, gotta say. Technically, there was nothing wrong w/it. Strong character work, strong counter and stiff wrestling, strong selling, strong everything. But at points, it did feel pretty dull. Dead crowd really didn't help, highlighting the slow pace further more. I don't mind slow paces, but at least do something interesting in between the stalling (like Mark Henry would do). Still good tho, and still better than Finn/Nak, that's for sure. Glad Nak is champion, meaning Joe is probably going to the MR as well. Nak's entrance may have been the moment of the night.

Overall, another really good show. Getting quite overrated by some people (I've even heard some say they liked it better than Dallas, LOL), but great nonetheless.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone else feel like Nakamura has been outworked in virtually every one of his major matches since coming to NXT? After rewatching I thought Joe looked like a fucking monster last night. He was just so focused & nasty and sold those knees wonderfully at the end. Will probably go *** 3/4 for the match for a few moments that I _really_ liked.

I can say now that Aries, Balor, and Joe have outshined him in their matches together. Zayn match could go either way I guess.

Wonder what challengers they have lined up for him in the future. Roode seems the logical guess.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nakamura's entrance live in person was a thing to behold. ************ and 2nd GOAT entrance. 

Revival vs. DIY was immense. God damn the fucking Revival! They keep winning when I want them to lose lol. Incredible match to witness live. 

Another stellar Takeover. Not as good as Brooklyn last year in terms of quality but equally as fun as any wrestling show I've ever been to. 

Summerslam is tonight and I'm already sitting here dreading how long this show is going to be but I'm looking forward to Cena/Styles, Brock/Orton and Balor/Rollins. 

I went to the Evolve show before NXT yesterday too. What's the deal with Timothy Thatcher? Is he considered good, bad, what? Place was completely dead for him vs. Gulak but we got treated to Sabre Jnr. vs Cedric Alexander and that was fun. Cody Rhodes vs. Chris Hero was good too but I didn't realize just how FAT Hero is until I saw him in person. They did a superplex and it sounded like a fucking bomb had gone off. 

McGregor vs. Diaz was also *******


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I went to the Evolve show before NXT yesterday too. What's the deal with Timothy Thatcher? Is he considered good, bad, what? Place was completely dead for him vs. Gulak but we got treated to Sabre Jnr. vs Cedric Alexander and that was fun. Cody Rhodes vs. Chris Hero was good too but I didn't realize just how FAT Hero is until I saw him in person. They did a superplex and it sounded like a fucking bomb had gone off.


I didn't watch the show but from what I read, they turned Thatcher heel yesterday. He's been champion for fucking EVER, pretty much beating everyone on the roster twice by now.  I thought Hero was gonna beat him, then I thought Callihan was gonna beat him, then I thought Riddle was gonna beat him, then I thought Sabre was gonna beast him, etc etc. You get my point. It's very strange that he's still champion because he has no ties towards WWE or the CWC or no rumors about anyone really being behind him. He's just a loner. Reading that the last two matches were god awful and the booking behind them didn't help either. Shame since they probably had a good crowd.

It's also weird that Hero went over Cody but the night before, Rhodes actually beat Sabre Jr... by making him tap out. Odd.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Corey said:


> I didn't watch the show but from what I read, they turned Thatcher heel yesterday. He's been champion for fucking EVER, pretty much beating everyone on the roster twice by now.  I thought Hero was gonna beat him, then I thought Callihan was gonna beat him, then I thought Riddle was gonna beat him, then I thought Sabre was gonna beast him, etc etc. You get my point. It's very strange that he's still champion because he has no ties towards WWE or the CWC or no rumors about anyone really being behind him. He's just a loner. Reading that the last two matches were god awful and the booking behind them didn't help either. Shame since they probably had a good crowd.
> 
> It's also weird that Hero went over Cody but the night before, Rhodes actually beat Sabre Jr... by making him tap out. Odd.


Hero had a really cool promo after the Cody match. He said "Unless it's the greatest of all time...don't put me on no stinking list." Or something akin to that lol. It was a decent match but they fought in the crowd for a big chunk and I couldn't see shit. I immediately went to look to the tron and realized there wasn't one! :lol 

The 6 man at the end was a complete shambles. The mics weren't working, Joey Styles was there and then he wasn't, and they were fighting all over the place. I had no idea what was going on so I left about halfway through to get over to NXT in time.

Thatcher I just didn't get. I've never seen him before, haven't heard much about him and then when he received such a non-reaction I was left confused since most everybody else was over.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not sure if I should watch SummerSlam or not. Some people are saying the card looks good... I'm dreading about 90% of it. Rollins/Bálor, Sasha/Charlotte and I guess Zayn & Neville/Dudleys are the only matches I'd actively watch to test them out. Lesnar/Orton = same old Suplex City shit. Ambrose/Ziggler = LMAO. Cena/Styles = finisher fest/copypaste of MITB. Billions of tags = who gives a fuck. Miz/Crews = ZZZZZZ. Sheamus/Cesaro = been there, done that too fucking much. Reigns/Rusev = can't fathom to get into it, Reigns' character just sucks too much. Ugh. It doesn't look appealing to me.

On that note, I don't know why I haven't catched up w/CWC. Maybe it's because the 2nd episode was so underwhelming (Tajiri match aside) - and I disagree w/Cody in that Tozawa/Johnson was worth watching, because it wasn't imo, it actually kinda sucked. But I've heard so much of good about the other eps. that I think I should start catching up...... ha, actually not. I don't care, anyway.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I think I'm kinda turning sour on the CWC now. Didn't talk about last weeks show but quickly, Tajiri/Metalik was pretty good but I couldn't get invested in Ibushi/Alexander and when that happens your peak is pretty much yeah that was good. And I spose it was but eh. This weeks show had more that I disliked than liked and was the first episode that I came away from thinking that wasn't a pleasing way to spend 40 odd minutes. Gallagher/Tozawa on the whole was good once they got going. I didn't like the hahahaha that lad Gallagher is a real giggle at the start because it makes the wrestling look so fake when Gallagher's doing that sort of work and Tozawa has to play along with it and generally look an idiot. I pretty much hated the tie Tozawa up so he can't move spot. It's just dumb and fake and I'm not sure this is the match to be playing about in. I get that its part of Gallagher's work but that's what the 1st round was for, not here. Once they canned that this was good though and I generally enjoyed Tozawa's leg sell. Tozawa's delayed suplex looks cool as a spot but has like no impact as a finish. Dar/Ho Ho was terrible. I spose the silver lining was they drew each other and didn't wash out two other guys. Ho Ho might be the worst wrestler to ever wrestle on WWE TV as a featured act. I know there's the terrible giants like Khali but they had a lack of mobility as an excuse and weren't there to be good wrestlers, but attractions and spectacles. Ho Ho doesn't have anything and he's flat out horrible. There's plenty of wrestlers who are supposedly great that make what they do look really fake and business exposing but it's usually when they're trying something creative that is at least well executed. Ho Ho makes everything look fake because he's constantly a good 2-3 seconds slow on every single spot, his strikes have nothing behind them, he looks visibly lost during his match and doesn't have any of the non-execution attributes to make up for any of that. Dar is just flat out dull and uninspired. If ever there's been a crowd just entertaining themselves chant then it was the Star Wars stuff here. Ugh. Nese/Kendrick was weird because I thought Kendrick was great but god I HATED Tony Nese. Poor guy's thighs must have been super sore after that match. Everything about the guy screams playing pro wrestler not being one. His strikes are just horrendous. Like every strike was supposedly a knockout blow yet they never have any effect so you're just burying your own strikes. I don't mind leg slapping but when you're doing it so blatantly on every single strikes it just gets grating. The playing pro wrestler rather than being one comes from much more than just the striking too. The whole package screams it. He's another guy who just wrestles and doesn't really emote during his matches. I thought Kendrick was great though. Sold well to put over his battle from underneath and his wily veteran spots were good. So basically he worked his character and it made the match better along with a) letting me know what Brian Kendrick is and b) making me care about Brian Kendrick. For a lot of the guys in this it's nothing more than this is my name, I wrestle this style but that has no impact on the match or the finish (the Lance Storm podcast on this was great btw and really on the money) and you should like me because I do these cool moves in the ring. At least Kendrick won. This and the opener were both good but there's also parts about this that are grating on me more now that the introduction stage is over and the exposure is increasing. Oh and before I forget, I do love Bryan but I kinda wish he'd tone it down a notch on Kendrick matches. It's weird because sometimes it can be grating when he's doing his Kendrick love affair shtick after every single spot but then at times it's kinda cute (ATTA BOY BRIAN). Oh and "he just high jumped over the top rope". ily.

As per usual the TakeOver shows deliver. It's amazing that the same company that produces the main roster PPVs which are usually not good and infuriating can produce shows like the TakeOvers that are never not good and usually great, and not just great but FUN too. I want to get this in first before I forget, Tom Phillips is really good and seriously undervalued. Whenever I see opinions on him it always seems to be yeah he's good or yeah but I don't think he'd be any good without Graves and the fuck outta here with all that talk. He's really good in an understated way and comfortably better than Ranallo imo. I mean he's not all time great play by play guy standards because he doesn't have that one quality that really stands him out but there's like nothing bad about his calls. He's credible, a good guy commentator that calls it as it is and roots for the good guys without being phony, doesn't get totally stripped down by Graves and has real good chemistry with his colour guy. He's been just as good with other guys on Main Event too. 

Aries/Jose I liked a bunch and thought was really good. First time I've seen Jose and I was an instant fan after his entrance. The amount of amazing entrances that they produce for guys in NXT is off the chart. Straight away I'm into the guy. Best part of this was when I realised that the guy at the front of the Jose conga line had an Aries shirt on. Incredible. Match was good. This is exactly what NXT should be doing if it insists on using big names that would have more value on the main roster than most of the guys on said roster, use them to help the guys like Jose who are new and improving. Pair them with guys like Aries who you know will have a good match with them so viewers think the other guy's a good wrestler while also improving their work in the ring from working with an experienced pro like that. Even when these guys like Jose do get time to work which is basically just on house shows now, they're usually paired with other guys at their level while the good workers all face each other and it's forever gonna be a real struggle for them to develop up to their level by just facing each other. And you can still have your NXT dream matches project on TV, just pair them up differently on house shows. Or even better put guys like Goldust on the NXT house show tour rather than the Raw and SD circuits. I thought Jose looked good in ring wise anyway and this was about as much as it could be for what it was. I spose Aries is back to the dream match project now. Weird that they're doing Itami/Aries now in NXT with a Cruiserweight Division about to debut on Raw where you'd imagine they'd be two of the top guys in that division so wouldn't you want to save that match for even just a number of months. Itami's a weird case because he was a massive signing when he first came in and then before he got any momentum he got injured, was gone forever and lost all his momentum and now I don't think anyone looks at him as half the star he was when he first debuted in NXT. But he'll get it back based on this, it's just an odd dynamic for everyone. I assume Aries/Itami is just to build Itami up to facing Joe and/or Nakamura. 

Ember Moon debut was fine. The match wasn't bad, it was just there and hurt by the fact that they totally lost the crowd during the heat segment. Billie Kay has a fantastic look for a heel. She looked just fine in the ring too but the expectations with NXT now are far higher than just fine so it'll be tough for her. Moon has a good look and naturally another great entrance. A lot of finishers that they give guys in NXT are pretty terrible (hello Bobby Roode) but that definitely isn't the case here. Hell of a finish assuming she doesn't botch it. 

Bobby Roode may have just had the greatest entrance ever. First I've seen of him in NXT and I wasn't at all hyped for him but he turned me around on this show. I don't even know why I'm not excited for him. Maybe partially because of the TNA stink but even when I watched him in TNA I never overly liked him. But this was.... well, you know. That entrance is magnificent. NXT has produced A LOT of great entrance themes but this may be the best of them all. And then the slow dramatic ascension. Just amazing. Only down side of it is that there's no way he can be a heel with that entrance but I spose we're fighting a losing battle with that one. Almas on the other hand they've totally flopped with. They won't do this but they should just take the character off TV and bring him back as a masked luchadore like they should have done in the first place really. The reaction when he came out was just massively flat. He's got a pretty face so I get why they'd take the mask off but there's also much more value in his mask than his face. Plus the look is really bad with the suspenders and the hat and the cheesy grin. To his credit he got himself much more over with the crowd by the time the match ended than when it started but yeah, the character is a swing and a miss. Match was just fine. Not much to rave about and probably carried a lot by Roode's glorious shtick being so new to everyone. Roode's finish is really weak though. 

Revival/DIY was really good. DIY is a terrible name but I thought The Revival was a terrible name at first too. No Flips Just Fists >>>>>. Strolling around the place on my own and shouting "I GO HARD, ALL DAY ALL NIGHT" in my deepest voice is a thing that I do now and it might have given me a sore throat once. The things we admit to guys. Revival are just flat out awesome. Gargano and Ciampa aren't a team (or individuals) that I care about at all so the fact The Revival got something so good and that got me so invested out of them speaks volumes for how much I enjoy them. Match was good and then they want to the finishing stretch it bumped up to GREAT with all the near finishes which were definitely of a higher standard than the norm. I'm not a fan of Gargano and Ciampa but I'll give them props for this between this and their CWC match, they really do a great job of selling how important winning and losing are to them. I have all 3 Alpha matches above this but this was really good and maybe MOTN.

Bayley/Asuka I thought was at a similar level to the above match and an improvement on Dallas. The thing stopping both of them from really getting up to that next level is a lack of meat to the match. Longer isn't better but I think it would be here. They tell a great story in the time they have and there's no wasted time in this but I also feel that in this case 5 more minutes would have helped them because they would have had enough stuff to add to keep those 5 minutes interesting and relevant. But wanting more time rather than less is a good problem. It's pretty much impossible for me not to get emotional during Bayley's entrance. This might sound daft but I love it when Bayley's hair gets all messed up and untidy because it makes the match look like a battle. They showed clips of last year before the match and it shows Bayley stood their after the match and her hair is all wild and if you see that one still you immediately think she's been in a war of a match. This was maybe Asuka's best performance yet, which isn't super high praise but she was great in this. Both were. Asuka's strikes came off better than ever before too. Bayley working from the bottom up is about as safe a formula for success as Zayn working from the bottom up is but she really delivered when she had to go toe to toe with Asuka and work stiffer. I thought this had a good case of how to throw a finisher kickout into a match without it being damaging too. Bayley threw the B2B in more as a major hope spot than a big false finish and that's the way to do it because then it's more believable when it not only doesn't get the 3 but Asuka goes right back on top after it. I'd say both this and the tag were around ***3/4, so not the best MOTN standard for a TakeOver but there wasn't anything on the show that I disliked and the majority of it was at a really good level. This sounds super obvious but it isn't always the case but I'm really glad they didn't sit Charlotte with Sasha and Becky. 

Joe/Nakamura wasn't far off being MOTN but it was also a let down. Nothing to do with the match itself just how it was relative to expectations. This felt more like a TV match they'd have together up until the ending rather than a match on the main event of this show. It felt like they were holding back and I would not have expected either to hold anything back here at all. Given the hype video and the entrances I was expecting this to start off more like Joe/Balor at Dallas and instead they started working it like a 30 minute Nakamura/Tanahashi classic. It really took the crowd out of the match too. And the work they were doing was definitely good but I think everyone expected and wanted more. I was fine with the finisher kickouts here too. They worked. Joe's sell of the first knee was outstanding. I really hope this isn't a one and done deal because I want them to have the match everyone knows they're capable of together. *



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> I haven't seen SD yet, but watching Raw, I honestly wondered if they were intentionally trying to make people not look forward to SS. That's honestly how it seemed for me, and it seems you feel much the same way.
> 
> For starters, why in gods name would you have Reigns wrestle FOR 27 MINUTES IN THE MAIN EVENT AGAINST RUSEV.....a week before they have a match at SS. It boggles the mind. Actually, it doesn't boggle, it flat out just doesn't make sense. In this type of situation, where you have the big bad heel champ and the tough young baby face wrestling for a title at a PPV, the smart thing to do is book a non-title match with some sort of stip, like say banning someone from ringside, banning a move, winner picks the rules for the title fight on the PPV, etc. Then when you have the match, just gives the fans a TASTE. We don't need the full 4 course meal, we don't WANT the full 4 course meal on Raw a week before the event. Do a short, 5-6 minute shmozz where no signature moves get done, just an extended brawl in other words. Have it end when Reigns gets the upper hand on Rusev and starts beating him up, and Rusev restarts to grabbing a chair and whacking Reigns, DQ'ing himself. Hell, if they had just left it after Rusev threw Reigns on the catering table as the last shot fans saw before SS, that would have been fine.


*Having them wrestle on the go home show isn't actually a problem within itself. You can do that to build hype for the PPV match. Have Reigns win and you have a more of a story to play off of in the rematch. The issue is they have them wrestle on the go home show and it will just be a stand alone match. They won't play off of the finish tonight, they won't tell the story that can be told of the challenger having a clean win over the champion just 6 nights earlier. That and the fact that they'll probably just work the same match tonight. Like you alluded to you can do the match on the go home show as long as it is different. Now I didn't actually watch the match but given how long it went I'm assuming tonight won't be vastly dissimilar. *




IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Don't even get me started on the Balor ish. Why in gods name would they have him do the full Demon entrance on Raw? Isn't that supposed to be special? Isn't that something fans will pay to see at PPV's? Why even have them do a face to face in ring segment? Isn't less, more, when it comes to a character like Balor's? Actually to be honest I'm not even sure what Balor's character is supposed to be. They missed a HUGE opportunity with him, to make the Demon special, his "Cactus Jack" persona, only to be pulled out in the most dire of circumstances. Then again, Balor is so blah that I don't think he could survive without leaning heavily on the Demon gimmick.


*I actually totally disagree with everyone on the Balor thing. Is there one person who is buying the network ONLY to see Balor's entrance? I really doubt it. Is it part of the appeal? Yes, but Summerslam isn't hanging on that alone. And the people who are excited about the entrance are the ones who have already seen it. So the people moaning about seeing it for the first time on the go home show are the same people who have already seen said entrance multiple times before. Okaaaay. Look at this way. You have Summerslam already loaded to the rafters and is quite frankly sold to anyone who will watch it already. Raw isn't in that situation. They needed selling points for that episode of Raw and the appeal of see Balor do his demon shtick was a reason to tune into Raw for people who may not have tuned in otherwise. That's not the case on Summerslam. First time, second time, tenth time, it really doesn't matter. "This is the first time you will see the Demon" isn't selling any extra buys for Summerslam. If you want to see it then you're already getting it and you're not not getting it anymore because you already saw the Demon on Raw. And if you are that person then you're not a Balor fan and you weren't getting the show to see Balor/Rollins in the first place. So with all that in your mind it made total sense to try and do something of a ratings pop for the go home show where there aren't already a multitude of things that have already sold people on the show. People on here get so hung up on their rules that are the right ways of doing things they just react to stuff like that instinctively when in reality it usually doesn't actually matter all that much, if at all. *




IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Oh, and the Cesaro/Sheamus Best of 7, Jesus Christ. Those two already had a prolonged, uninteresting, wholly underwhelming feud in 2014. They wrestled a half dozen times then, and still couldn't top the 2013 bout they had on SD! That match remains the pinnacle of what these two can do when they face, and while I really enjoy that match, I don't need to see it 7 different times. We get it, two big badass euros who love laying their shit in stiff. We don't need anymore.
> 
> If they had their hearts set on a Best of 7, why not use it to elevate someone like Neville? To my eyes, there is NOTHING Balor has that Neville doesn't have, actually I think Neville is flat out better than Balor. Well, Neville as a heel at least, love his subtle heel stuff from NXT, especially in the Zayn match which is prob the best all around performance I've ever seen from Neville. To my recollection, Neville and Cesaro haven't faced each other, why not do a Best of 7 between them? Or better yet, why not just a best of 5? Everyone overrates the hell out of the Booker/Benoit BO7 series anyway, there are only 3 of those matches that were really good to begin with.
> 
> ...


*Yeah you're right about the Best of 7. I like both guys a lot but they've had a bunch of matches that I've forgotten they've ever had and honestly not one of them has been great. Now you can do it with a pairing that has wrestled a bunch before but the previous matches have to have been to a high standard, the Sheamus/Cesaro matches have ranged from forgettable to very good. I mean it wouldn't be so bad if they added some gimmicks to the matches. Make one a Submission match, one a Street Fight, one a Ladder match. Just anything to mix things up. And like you said, say they have a great 7 match series, so what? Everyone already knows that Cesaro rules and Sheamus having good matches is 1) known and 2) doesn't make fans who don't care about him are about him. The best thing they can do is have Cesaro win 4-1 and that way someone gets over from winning the series so decisively but you know it's going the full. 

If you want to do a Best of Series then do it with Sasha and Charlotte. They've wrestled each other a bunch but people don't tire of their matches and it'd be a big sell for the Womens Division to have them do something like that. I mean they're going to have to have a bunch of matches together anyway with the Division so weak but by presenting it in that format you have the excuse for dragging it out and making them having a bunch of matches a bigger deal than them just having a bunch of matches. And then you can also get other stuff out of the way like having the Women do gimmick matches and main event an episode of Raw with a match just to shut people up banging on about it. Say a Best of 5 and you can have Foley pic the next match stip for each. So Match 1 Charlotte wins via Dana distraction so Match 2 is a Cage Match to keep Dana out. Match 3 is a Submission match, 4 is a Ladder and then 5 is an Ironman match. Now that's a Best of 5/7 Series that actually gets two people over.*



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> If they had their hearts set on a Best of 7, why not use it to elevate someone like Neville? To my eyes, there is NOTHING Balor has that Neville doesn't have, actually I think Neville is flat out better than Balor. Well, Neville as a heel at least, love his subtle heel stuff from NXT, especially in the Zayn match which is prob the best all around performance I've ever seen from Neville. To my recollection, Neville and Cesaro haven't faced each other, why not do a Best of 7 between them? Or better yet, why not just a best of 5? Everyone overrates the hell out of the Booker/Benoit BO7 series anyway, there are only 3 of those matches that were really good to begin with.


*Well popularity for one. I agree on being low on Balor but the one knock you can't have against him is that he's not super over. Neville isn't. You might mean on the main roster and in which case no but Cesaro/Neville had a match in NXT that was really good and a couple pre WWE too. *


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Additional ratings from last night:

Roode's entrance: *********1/2 (9.5)
Nakamura's entrance: ********** (10)
McGregor vs. Diaz: ********** (10)



Excited as fuck for AJ vs. Cena tonight. I feel like I should be more excited for Balor vs. Rollins but I simply do not care about Balor much at all. Still will be good, obviously.

RE: NXT. The Revival is the best damn tag team in the company today, no doubt, and might be the best in the entire business right now. They're magical. They get the best out of anyone they go against, and they're so damn good at getting heat with their in-ring work alone. No "go away" heat, no "your sports team sucks" heat, they get their heat in the ring with what they do and it's fucking beautiful. These guys have to be on the main roster by the end of the year - I'd love to see them and American Alpha carry the tag division on Smackdown.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

New Day vs. The Revival at Wrestlemania next year would be incredible.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Once again: a solid, snug match between these two but apathy is the result due to no heat. Create some organic heat between the two and you'd have something with this series.

edit: by the way: as a little bit of fun: while there are some really easy viable options for Orton and Lesnar to tell a hell of a story: I cynically am going to guess they don't go the route I would as an agent/performer and I predict that match will be a letdown and Im a bit weary Balor/Rollins turns into a flipfest. Im gonna predict that Aj/Cena get their potential chemistry together tonight and walk out with the MOTN.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Starz~ for Takeover:

Austin Aries VS No Way Jose - ***

Ember Moon VS Billie Kay - **1/4

Bobby Roode VS Andrade Cien Almas - **1/2

The Revival VS Gargano & Ciampa - ***1/2

Asuka VS Bayley - ***1/2

Samoa Joe VS Shinsuke Nakamura- ***1/4


Man, when a strike exchange from Joe and Nakamura seems tame, you know they're not giving it their all. Most of these guys and girls seemed not to be working at half-gas, actually. Bayley/Asuka was probably MOTN, but I still preferred their Dallas match by quite a bit. 

Gargano and Ciampa are as meh as meh can get, so this was about the performance I expected from them (= underwhelming). The Revival's performance was also as I expected (= fucking spectacular), so that along with that nifty-as-hell finishing stretch made this a pretty good match. Aries/Jose was pretty fun too, but KENTA with the muthafuckin' GTS :mark:

Overall, disappointing TakeOver. But those entrances, my God :trips8


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sasha is going to break her neck one day. Jesus Christ.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hardly anything was executed perfectly in Charlotte vs. Sasha, but I have to applaud them for the creativity and effort to give us something totally different. Really enjoyed it and was definitely shocked by the finish.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Impressive athleticism and a hell of a reaction live but I guess many call definitive match of the year now has to be something that completely chucks psychology from a sense-standpoint completely out the window ala Cena working calf killer spots and five minutes later going off the top with that leg drop dive and a billion huge move kickouts? Come on now I like old school styling I know that but come on.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, Cena/Styles II was piss fucking poor. A Styles Clash 7 minutes into the match, kickout, followed up with an AA and a kickout. From there we get nothing but random ass moves/finishers and kickouts loaded with a major lack of selling between them repeatedly trading submissions. Unfortunately, a near DUD and what disappoints me even more is that the casual fan will drool all over the match and it's gonna go down as a fantastic moment & win for AJ... but the match was dirt. :shrug


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I thought Cena vs. Styles was incredible. 


Also, Sasha's pulled from events and her next event date is in 33 days :ti


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Double post


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

seabs said:


> *I think I'm kinda turning sour on the CWC now. Didn't talk about last weeks show but quickly, Tajiri/Metalik was pretty good but I couldn't get invested in Ibushi/Alexander and when that happens your peak is pretty much yeah that was good. And I spose it was but eh. This weeks show had more that I disliked than liked and was the first episode that I came away from thinking that wasn't a pleasing way to spend 40 odd minutes. Gallagher/Tozawa on the whole was good once they got going. I didn't like the hahahaha that lad Gallagher is a real giggle at the start because it makes the wrestling look so fake when Gallagher's doing that sort of work and Tozawa has to play along with it and generally look an idiot. I pretty much hated the tie Tozawa up so he can't move spot. It's just dumb and fake and I'm not sure this is the match to be playing about in. I get that its part of Gallagher's work but that's what the 1st round was for, not here. Once they canned that this was good though and I generally enjoyed Tozawa's leg sell. Tozawa's delayed suplex looks cool as a spot but has like no impact as a finish. Dar/Ho Ho was terrible. I spose the silver lining was they drew each other and didn't wash out two other guys. Ho Ho might be the worst wrestler to ever wrestle on WWE TV as a featured act. I know there's the terrible giants like Khali but they had a lack of mobility as an excuse and weren't there to be good wrestlers, but attractions and spectacles. Ho Ho doesn't have anything and he's flat out horrible. There's plenty of wrestlers who are supposedly great that make what they do look really fake and business exposing but it's usually when they're trying something creative that is at least well executed. Ho Ho makes everything look fake because he's constantly a good 2-3 seconds slow on every single spot, his strikes have nothing behind them, he looks visibly lost during his match and doesn't have any of the non-execution attributes to make up for any of that. Dar is just flat out dull and uninspired. If ever there's been a crowd just entertaining themselves chant then it was the Star Wars stuff here. Ugh. Nese/Kendrick was weird because I thought Kendrick was great but god I HATED Tony Nese. Poor guy's thighs must have been super sore after that match. Everything about the guy screams playing pro wrestler not being one. His strikes are just horrendous. Like every strike was supposedly a knockout blow yet they never have any effect so you're just burying your own strikes. I don't mind leg slapping but when you're doing it so blatantly on every single strikes it just gets grating. The playing pro wrestler rather than being one comes from much more than just the striking too. The whole package screams it. He's another guy who just wrestles and doesn't really emote during his matches. I thought Kendrick was great though. Sold well to put over his battle from underneath and his wily veteran spots were good. So basically he worked his character and it made the match better along with a) letting me know what Brian Kendrick is and b) making me care about Brian Kendrick. For a lot of the guys in this it's nothing more than this is my name, I wrestle this style but that has no impact on the match or the finish (the Lance Storm podcast on this was great btw and really on the money) and you should like me because I do these cool moves in the ring. At least Kendrick won. This and the opener were both good but there's also parts about this that are grating on me more now that the introduction stage is over and the exposure is increasing. Oh and before I forget, I do love Bryan but I kinda wish he'd tone it down a notch on Kendrick matches. It's weird because sometimes it can be grating when he's doing his Kendrick love affair shtick after every single spot but then at times it's kinda cute (ATTA BOY BRIAN). Oh and "he just high jumped over the top rope". ily.
> 
> As per usual the TakeOver shows deliver. It's amazing that the same company that produces the main roster PPVs which are usually not good and infuriating can produce shows like the TakeOvers that are never not good and usually great, and not just great but FUN too. I want to get this in first before I forget, Tom Phillips is really good and seriously undervalued. Whenever I see opinions on him it always seems to be yeah he's good or yeah but I don't think he'd be any good without Graves and the fuck outta here with all that talk. He's really good in an understated way and comfortably better than Ranallo imo. I mean he's not all time great play by play guy standards because he doesn't have that one quality that really stands him out but there's like nothing bad about his calls. He's credible, a good guy commentator that calls it as it is and roots for the good guys without being phony, doesn't get totally stripped down by Graves and has real good chemistry with his colour guy. He's been just as good with other guys on Main Event too.
> 
> ...


Great post dude (Y)

Jericho/Owens vs Enzo/Cass ***1/2
Charlotte/Sasha ***3/4
Cena/Styles II ***1/2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose vs. Ziggler was a really good match IMO, but a victim of placement as the crowd is burnt since the Cena/Styles match (and the stupid Stewart stuff). It told a really nice, simple story with a logical ending with Ziggler going for the flashy move but Ambrose using his simplicity, countering it and finishing it off.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Ambrose vs. Ziggler was a really good match IMO, but a victim of placement as the crowd is burnt since the Cena/Styles match (and the stupid Stewart stuff). It told a really nice, simple story with a logical ending with Ziggler going for the flashy move but Ambrose using his simplicity, countering it and finishing it off.


Are we watching the same show, man? :lol They were either trying to turn Ambrose heel to gain more sympathy for Ziggler or simply humiliating Dolph by having Dean mock everything he does. Idk. I thought it sucked either way and there was no reason for me to believe Dolph had a chance.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Corey said:


> Are we watching the same show, man? :lol They were either trying to turn Ambrose heel to gain more sympathy for Ziggler or simply humiliating Dolph by having Dean mock everything he does. Idk. I thought it sucked either way and there was no reason for me to believe Dolph had a chance.


Are we watching the same show? Ambrose was phenomenal in that match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we watching the same show? Ambrose was phenomenal in that match.


Phenomenal in what way? He just mocked everything while getting no reaction from the crowd. The rebound clothesline sequence was terrible and his work was lazy. Probably tried to hook dirty deeds at least 4 times. If anything, Ziggler looked far more motivated and even worked in the amateur stuff he never uses these days. I personally never got invested and thought the whole aspect of it was very... strangely executed.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> Are we watching the same show, man? :lol They were either trying to turn Ambrose heel to gain more sympathy for Ziggler or simply humiliating Dolph by having Dean mock everything he does. Idk. I thought it sucked either way and there was no reason for me to believe Dolph had a chance.


Ambrose played the same character he did in the buildup. Straight shooting, arrogant and confident. It played into the match, but Ziggler went back to trying to steal the show with a fancy spot instead of getting the job done and Ambrose got him for it. 

It was a shame the crowd has died so much since Cena/Styles because I thought it was real good. Not on the level of Cena vs. Styles II which was phenomenal IMO, but a real good match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> Phenomenal in what way? He just mocked everything while getting no reaction from the crowd. The rebound clothesline sequence was terrible and his work was lazy. Probably tried to hook dirty deeds at least 4 times. If anything, Ziggler looked far more motivated and even worked in the amateur stuff he never uses these days. I personally never got invested and thought the whole aspect of it was very... strangely executed.


Don't agree that Styles/Cena was a DUD. Wasn't a great match or a classic or anything, for the reason you stated, it was just another false finish fest and that first Styles Clash kickout really did hurt the match for me. That said, I'm not going to lie and say I didn't enjoy anything about it. They got me on the top rope Avalanche AA. If a match actually manages to get me with a false finish, I can't shit all over it because it shows my disbelief was suspended and they had me immersed. So, I give it ***1/2. Seems fair to me, as it wasn't really a noteworthy or memorable match, but it did have its good parts and was exciting to watch live.

However, I'm with you 100% on not liking Ambrse/Ziggler. Two of my least favorite guys to watch in 2016 going at it, and they didn't dissapoint as that match was a borderline disaster. I'll give it **, just because Ambrose made me chuckle a few times and there were a few cool parts.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Maybe I'm being generous with Ziggler/Ambrose. I'm not particularly interested in either of them at this point, but I liked the story. Maybe I'll give it a re-watch. Until then I have it in the *** - ***1/4 area.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For fuck's sake, I'm gonna have a meltdown tonight. A rope break doesn't happen so Cole all of a sudden tells us this match in No DQ? Since when...? That was never announced in the slightest and wasn't even needed here. Then Balor kicks out of a fucking pedigree? Oh my lord. He precedes to then no sell a superplex and run wild into the finish. I'm so fucking annoyed with this show right now. Can someone at least _try_ to put together a match with a logical story instead of just doing a bunch of moves? There's a reason why this crowd is not reacting anymore. Your booking sucks.



IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Don't agree that Styles/Cena was a DUD. Wasn't a great match or a classic or anything, for the reason you stated, it was just another false finish fest and that first Styles Clash kickout really did hurt the match for me. That said, I'm not going to lie and say I didn't enjoy anything about it. They got me on the top rope Avalanche AA. If a match actually manages to get me with a false finish, I can't shit all over it because it shows my disbelief was suspended and they had me immersed. So, I give it ***1/2. Seems fair to me, as it wasn't really a noteworthy or memorable match, but it did have its good parts and was exciting to watch live.


I completely hear you, man. I thought for a second that Cena might win off of the Super AA, but once he kicked out it just added fuel to my frustration fire. :lol The match really reminded me of Punk/Jericho from Payback. Just way too much shit and careless use of finishers. Credibility has gotta be a thing at some point.

Idk why I'm even ranting though because we're made to have short memories in WWE so no one's gonna remember how much was kicked out of next week.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Am I crazy, or have Enzo/Cass vs Jericho/Owens and Charlotte/Sasha been the best matches of tonight?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fuck sake, what is this show.

Cena/Styles is my MOTN thus far and it's not even close IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> Am I crazy, or have Enzo/Cass vs Jericho/Owens and Charlotte/Sasha been the best matches of tonight?


Nope, cause I agree. This has been a disaster, imho. Now we have Roman & Rusev not even having a match. Way to award your paying Roman fans.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Styles/Cena was great. Rollins/Balor sucked and Ambrose/Ziggler was alright. Fuck what happened with Reigns/Rusev. Opening tag and women's title match were both really good matches though. Mixed bag of a show so far.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow.


I don't even know what to say.



Wow.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All anyone wanted was an F5 into an RKO. And we couldn't even get that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:jericho2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What the fuck was that


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

12-man tag: **
Neville-Zayn vs. Dudleyz: **
Cesaro vs. Sheamus: ***1/2
Enzo-Cass vs. Jericho-Owens: ***
Sasha vs. Charlotte: **3/4
Miz vs. Crews: *3/4
Cena vs. Styles: ****3/4
New Day vs. The Club: *1/2
Ambrose vs. Ziggler: ***
Six-woman tag: **
Balor vs. Rollins: ***1/2
Reigns vs. Rusev: Fuck off
Lesnar vs. Orton: WTF (**)


----------



## lma0 (Aug 22, 2016)

inb4 Shane vs Brock


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Charlotte/Sasha was MOTN at *** 3/4 and even that had some sloppiness. I have Jeri-KO vs. Enzo & Cass at *** 1/4 and the rest was just a giant mess of a show. Sheamus/Cesaro on the preshow was probably the 3rd best on the night.

I could rant for days on this shit. No wonder your crowd was dead for the last 2 and a half hours.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

12-man tag: **
Neville-Zayn vs. Dudleyz: **1/2
Cesaro vs. Sheamus: ***1/2
Enzo-Cass vs. Jericho-Owens: ***1/4
Sasha vs. Charlotte: ***1/2
Miz vs. Crews: **
Cena vs. Styles: ***
New Day vs. The Club: **
Ambrose vs. Ziggler: ***1/2
Six-woman tag: **
Balor vs. Rollins: ***3/4
Lesnar vs. Orton: DUD


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The funny thing is some people actually believe Lesnar went rogue in the finish. Fucking... what? fpalm


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Well, here are my ratings for SummerSlam:

Sasha Banks VS Charlotte - **1/2

The Miz VS Apollo Crews - Didn't watch

John Cena VS AJ Styles - I don't even know

New Day VS The Club - Didn't watch all of it

Dean Ambrose VS Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2

6-Women Tag - Whatever

Finn Bálor VS Seth Rollins - ***1/4 

Brock Lesnar VS Randy Orton - *1/2


These aren't subject to change. Not that they wouldn't be if I rewatched them, but I sure as hell don't plan on doing that :brock4

I don't much care for either Ambrose right now nor Ziggler, but I thought this was pretty neat. Liked Ambrose way more in this one than I usually do nowadays. Did I ever believe Ziggler was going to win? Hell no. But Ambrose's mannerisms fit really well into this story. Ziggler put up a decent fight, but in 2016 he can't hang with the World Champ. Dean doesn't take him seriously and gets a few good shots thrown at him, but it's still nowhere near enough. Ziggler was never anything but a lesser challenge to Ambrose that never stood a chance, no matter how much heart he showed, and I think these types of matches are actually good for the overall narrative. The finish came out of nowhere and was kinda meh, but at least Dolph didn't kick out of it just because. Nor should he. He's Dolph Ziggler in 2016. That's what this match was about and I'm cool with it :ambrose5 (maybe it wasn't what they were striving for, but it was the way I interpreted it).

Cena/AJ, hoo boy. I don't know what to rate this. The only reason it's not a surefire DUD is because... well, it's Cena/AJ. The match DID suck balls, though. Nothing much to say about it. POWER MOVEZ~ NEARFALLS~ FINISHERS~. The first match was good (yet still a bit underwhelming) with a shit finish. This one was SHIT with a good finish. Unfortunately, that still leaves like 20 minutes of shit. This is the type of match where I feel like they had the fucking OBLIGATION to be way better than this. Then again, Cena match.

Bálor/Rollins, whatever. I kinda liked it, but the way they chose to push Prince Devitt to the fucking MOON like this when they had AJ Styles debuting earlier in the same year is hilarious :lmao

Brock/Orton was the expected. Didn't care much for them pulling out fucking blood and gore in such an inconsequential match such as this. Don't care for Lesnar, Suplex City, Orton or the RKO. Nor do I care for Shane fucking McMahon getting F5'd out of his shoes, what's the damn point :lmao


Rest isn't even worth discussing (though I wasn't paying attention during Miz/Crews or New Day/Club... doubt I missed anythin though lol). I truly believe Sasha Banks is going to die in a WWE ring someday, though. I legit stood up when they did that crucifix-hurricanrana spot because I always expect Sasha to land on her fucking neck and die. STOP. DOING. THOSE. SPOTS.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sasha Banks is like Big E. Every. Fucking. Time. So god damn stubborn to get their crowd-popping shit in that they nearly break their fucking necks doing that shit. At least with Big E it's just one move, but anytime Sasha does a big move, like a dive or a rana, it seems like she's going to break her neck. Slow it down or cut it out completely.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> Sasha Banks is like Big E. Every. Fucking. Time. So god damn stubborn to get their crowd-popping shit in that they nearly break their fucking necks doing that shit. At least with Big E it's just one move, but anytime Sasha does a big move, like a dive or a rana, it seems like she's going to break her neck. Slow it down or cut it out completely.


It is legitimately *awful*. It's the wrestling equivalent of an early 20's girl driving drunk because she thinks she can handle it, but doesn't realize she *cannot*. I worry way more whenever I see her going for a suicide dive than I do shit like Shane jumping off the Cell, and that alone speaks volumes of how irresponsible she is in the ring. 

In my country whenever young women do something seriously stupid, a lot of people tend to say "If she were my daughter, I'd beat the shit out of her". That's the way I feel about Sasha Banks. And she's a bit older than I am.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Guess who was right about SummerSlam sucking :y2j

Granted, I haven't seen it myself, but I've more than convinced myself after simply reading a report of it and basically imagining the matches themselves. People saying Cena/Styles as MOTN cause MOVEZ~ was just as predictable as Styles kicking out of an Avalanche AA because EVEN OWENS DID THAT LAST FUCKING YEAR. Cena's big matches are copies of the copies of the copies nowadays. Just exist to make me roll my eyes. And that ending.... what the ever loving fuck. They're not gonna go there.... no, they... they.... they're fucking going there, aren't they? GODDAMN YOU, MOTHERFUCKERS.

But it would take a whole lot of optimism to believe this was gonna be a good show. In current WWE, it's hard to have that.

Well, at least Styles won clean, amirite?

EDIT: To those that did watch this debacle, was it actually worse than last year? Cause that's the impression I'm getting.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm not seeing how people can say AJ/Cena was awesome. AJ is awesome, and Cena CAN have great matches but the last couple of years his big matches have been awful. All I saw last night was two guys no-selling, exchanging big moves and spamming finishers for 15 mins and then AJ winning. No thought was seemingly given to structure an actual match. 

That's all we seem to get from WWE in big matches these days. Just reversals and false finishes. No actual story. I'm glad AJ won, he's a made man now in this company. But the match fucking sucked balls.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't go outside of this thread and talk about Cena/Styles or else my head is going to explode. People trying to make up some shit about how the story was two guys trying to be the best and not giving up, blah blah blah. Finisher spamming wasn't there and they were selling, yadda yadda. :no:


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Cena/AJ was horse shit. I feel like a lot of the people calling it a "classic" are just aj marks caught up in the moment because he won clean. If Cena had won then they would have probably just called it "good". It wasn't good either way. Phony looking big move and kick out trading for what seemed like an eternity. Utter tedium. If that is being given top ratings then the standards of what makes a truly great match have definitely fallen by the wayside.

Pretty much all of the show was mediocre at best though, so it's not like it was a lone offender. Jeriko vs ENZO and Cass was fun. The women's title match was sloppy but the back work by Charlotte was good. Everything else was completely skippable (didn't watch the pre-show so can't comment on that. 4 hours of nonsense is enough).

Thank fuck for Saturday night's goodness. Im not a fan of the current direction of NXT, but it's hard to deny that the Takeovers always deliver match quality wise. The Revival actually made me give a damn about geekgano and ciampa. Miracle workers.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*


















I think I'm enjoying these shows more as of late. Or not disliking them as much is probably a better way of putting it because I'm not about to start really praising any of them but I think they've stepped up over the past few. 12 man was waaaaaaaaaay too long and was death whenever Alpha weren't in the ring. Jason Jordan off the hot tag is forever greatness. The heel side was terrible though so when you give them what must have been around a 8-10 minute heat segment it's gonna blow. Usos are turning and working Alpha now it seems which obviously needed to happen but didn't mean it would. Crowd are ready to totally hate them and are in love with Alpha so we might get a match where the crowd is truly behind one half and truly against the other half of the match. Cool. Matches should be really good too. Usos haven't been at a high level for a while now but they're always good and Alpha should raise them back up another level. Zayn/Neville tag I liked for what it was which was sadly nothing. I'd be fine with these two teaming but it feels like a waste of Zayn but it could just be a temporary thing until the Cruiserweight Division debuts. Bubba singles run seems on the cards too which is for sure better than what he's doing atm and should be good stuff. Cesaro/Sheamus was decent but then they really picked it up for the final 5 minutes and it got really good. Cesaro's springboard crossbody was spectacular. For as much as I liked this though I don't care to see them wrestle again after it unless they finally work a different match.

Opener was easy to watch but maybe the minimum you'd expect from them. Jericho's new look is great. I'm fine with him working tag matches but the gulf between him and Owens is massive. He did a really poor job of covering for the botched finish too. Enzo & Cass lose in Brooklyn because WWE logic. I thought Charlotte/Sasha was actually borderline great and not far below their Raw match. The duo of botches at the start didn't help but they recovered from it, got the crowd back and the first botch actually worked out well because Sasha sold the hell out of her back from it. I get why she goes all out and takes so many dangerous risks because it is what's got her where she is but damn she needs to tone it back a bit because she won't last long at the rate she's landing on her head in these matches. Word is she dropped the belt because she needs time of for an injury and I have a strong feeling she'll be in and out of injury lay offs which sucks for literally everyone. All that said though they at least do a real good job of getting the most out of their big spots and making them original. Double Knees off the top rope looked awesome but will fuck your knees up bad and the top rope Razor's Edge counter was great but Sasha almost landed right on top of her head again. Watch the crowd when Charlotte lifts her up for that spot though. Finish would have been a massive shock if I didn't already 90% know it was coming from the odds but they did it well and didn't make Sasha look weak. Not far behind Cena/AJ for MOTN for me. Miz/Crews was a nothing match. Jesus H Christ at Maryse. Crews is a weird case. He should be a big star with all his attributes but they give him like no character outside of smiles a lot and super grateful to be here and then he's never once had a chance to showcase how good he is. Nothing short match with Sheamus and now the same with Miz. Same case in NXT too. Give him a 15 minute match with AJ and it'd probably be great and he'd get really over from it but a nothing 5 minute match with Miz is doing nothing for anyone. Best thing for him is probably that they turn him heel and give him an edge.

Cena/AJ was really good and also borderline great. They lost me when they threw in a Styles Clash and AA kickout 5 minutes into a 23 minute match but to their credit they had me back by the end and made the most of the near falls at the end. Lose them 2 spots and I'd be higher on this for sure. Top rope AA is how you do a big kick out and sell it right. Awesome sell by Cena despite the horrible camera work. I wouldn't have had AJ come immediately back for the finish off the back of it though. Give that story time to sink in, for AJ to recover and for Cena to really doubt himself and what he goes to next. New Day tag was not good. I thought for sure that Stewart was turning on them and then even more so when New Day had a long control segment because that usually means the babyfaces are losing their belts so this is to compensate for it. But no, Anderson and Gallows just worked the whole match on the back foot until they cornered Stewart and then went back to bumping for New Day. Odd. Stewart totally brought the match down and turned it into a comedy spot. I know New Day are a comedy spot in themselves but Stewart made this at the level of a Golden Truth comedy spot not a New Day one. And ironically this was probably the most serious that New Day have been so naturally it's also the time they insert this nonsense into it. 

I did actually watch Ambrose/Ziggler but only because I'm off work this week and if I'm sitting through 12 other matches I may as well sit through this too. To their credit this was better than I thought it would be. They tried to tell a story in it and didn't go into overkill at the end. However that's also probably the reason the match didn't get over and everyone else was down on it. Story was ok but at least one of them needed to be much more over for the story to also get over and neither were really over. Ambrose seemed to have more of an edge too him which was nice but his offence still sucks and he doesn't really sell. Ziggler went down after one finisher in a title match and when you have the issue of every major match has multiple finisher kickouts you really bury matches like this where there's none and the loser goes straight down for the count. SD needed a much bigger Title match for their first post brand split PPV to make people take notice and this was definitely not it. Also I really don't like SD's announce team. A whole show of Mauro started doing my nut in. I just wish he'd tone right back on his like and as comments. They're so longwinded and forced. He's not Striker bad but he's annoying in that same manner. This is probably the first time that I've had more than just a couple of matches called by him so that's probably why it stood out more here. Also JBL and Otunga do not help at all. Raw's team is just fine now. Graves is comfortably the best of the 6 and Cole was just fine this show. Probably a good thing he wasn't squealing all over the main event but he seems better without JBL. Saxton is still Saxton though. He's not good anyway but the total assassination of them by the other commentators just pushes him down to an even deeper level. There was a clip of him doing the Joe/Nakamura sit down interview on TakeOver and when Joe stands him he does the most pussyish runaway ever and it's like how can you possibly take anything this guys says with any sort of emotion other than shut up Byron. Womens six man (six women? six person? six DIVA?) did not need to go that long at all. Some of them are good but none of them bring the others up to a higher level and instead wrestle down to their level. Like Becky is obviously good but she isn't giving Alexa Bliss a better match than the level that she's at and that's a major issue for this Womens roster which is full of girls that aren't that good yet. Naomi's entrance is spectacular. WWE are really killing it with entrances right now. I cringed at IT'S GLOW TIME and she goes into those kicks though. Eva's entrance is brilliant so I'm glad we got it and the fact that she maybe actually benefits from a suspension is incredible. That pop for Nikki was HUGE. Like maybe the biggest of the night (I do skip a lot of entrances though tbf but it was definitely at least on par with the pop for Enzo & Cass). Really took me by surprise but like with everyone else the crowd stop caring once you start wrestling. At least SD has another Womens wrestler and Becky/Nikki could actually be good based on the level that Nikki got up to last year but then what? Carmella, Alexa and Naomi all have good qualities but they're not working good matches. 

Balor/Rollins was not good imo. Like not they really went for it and had a match that I can see why people would love but didn't do it for me, I can't see why people would think this was great outside of them being massive marks for one or both guys and deciding that they loved this before it even started. Crowd was totally flat this until they started trading near falls. Crowd for both this and TakeOver were really underwhelming and not into most of the matches at all which was odd when you remember last year. 6 hours is far too long for a show and I can get them being burned by hour 5 on this show but it was the same case the night before too. Balor wrestled just like he does without the paint. I smirked at Graves explaining what makes The Demon different to just Balor and it's like you're full of shit, he just wears fancy paint for big shows and then works just the same. Or he's trying to be a darker side of himself in these matches and is just so horribly bad at portraying it. I assume everyone is fuming at Balor being overpushed to the moon within a month of debuting right?[/smirk]. I liked what they did with Rusev/Reigns. When there's 30 minutes left on your video and there's still this and Brock/Orton to come you figure that something like this will happen. It was good though and I'm fine with them doing it because the match will come and didn't need to come on this very show. Also explains why they did the PPV match on Raw. Brawl was really good and just the sort of thing that Reigns needs. That spear at the end looked awesome. I really want to see these two in a Street Fight next time out so mission accomplished. 

Brock/Orton turned into a memorable spectacle. That wasn't a blade job Cal. You can see the exact elbow which busts him open. Listening to Meltzer's podcast now and he says the plan was for Brock to open Randy up hardway and that was the planned finish, just ended up being more bloody than they intended. And just wow at that. You can't blade but we'll have Brock legit bust your head wide open. Honestly Orton should have just quit on the spot when they told him that was the plan. Watching it I assumed that Brock just laid the elbow in too hard and was being kinda unprofessional with the strikes but I spose not. I'll say this for it though, I want to see them rematch now and this should be a big match for Wrestlemania with a No Holds Barred stip. Heyman's reaction to Brock F5ing Shane was great. It's a shame that they can't book anyone else like they do Brock. But at the same time they book Brock like this total God and what are they really getting back in return from him? He never pops a rating and The Network numbers remain pretty constant with or without him so it's not like Brock pops a buyrate anymore. And the shows sell out regardless. I've been on this train for years but I'm pretty sure Brock's run is a massive loser for WWE. Match itself was a Brock match which sadly isn't a good thing in 2016. It's really amazing that they've turned a Brock match into something so stale. I knew they'd mess his booking up but I thought well at least we'll always have Brock in kick ass matches. Never take anything for granted with WWE I spose. 

Going through my thoughts there it doesn't seem like all that good of a show but I never wished that I didn't watch it. Which given that 7/12 matches I'd say I didn't really care for at all and nothing after Cena/AJ bar Reigns/Rusev was good is odd. Two borderline great matches helps a lot though and having an acca running through the whole show definitely helps a lot too.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@seabs :bjpenn


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Cena-Styles match felt like a Triple H match rolled into the finisher fest popularised by Michaels-Taker. And for that, I didn't really like it. Going with the pace that they went with (signature moves out quickly to turn the match into power moves and sleep between) was just a horrible decision considering who were in the fucking match.

Use Styles to his best. Let Cena use his starpower to make Styles look legit.
Instead we get the WWE version of a McDonalds meal. Joy.

Extremely cheap formula. Designed to keep fans in the match while going for the easiest possible way to establish it as a "classic". 

I'm not going to hate on people who enjoyed it but it feels like having super noodles for a diet.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> The Cena-Styles match felt like a Triple H match rolled into the finisher fest popularised by Michaels-Taker. And for that, I didn't really like it. Going with the pace that they went with (signature moves out quickly to turn the match into power moves and sleep between) was just a horrible decision considering who were in the fucking match.
> 
> Use Styles to his best. Let Cena use his starpower to make Styles look legit.
> *Instead we get the WWE version of a McDonalds meal*. Joy.
> ...


Hey, McChicken meals are delicious, don't generalize that :side:

EDIT: I might add that I have seen Cena/Styles out of morbid curiosity. Fucking dogshit. I liked Cena/Rollins from last year's SummerSlam better, that's how much garbage it was.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

Stylez vs Cena was great, you people are wack.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

@seabs fucking agreed on the Balor bullshit with his paint. He's been in the company for god knows how long now (I legit can't even remember) and never once has the demon had more depth other than commentary saying "it's the skeleton in his closet". No, mother fucker, he just has no personality and without the demon he'd be a geek in the mid-card. Nothing changes except his drawn out entrance. Move set? The same. Finisher? The same. Selling? The same. 

I'm pretty much done with Balor as a babyface anyways and have been for about a year now. He's a good worker, but that's about it.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*He's not a good worker, he's just a wrestler who does his moves very crisply. Good wrestler and good worker are very different. *


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone else notice how real some of the stuff was that (for lack of a better word, I don't mean they were actually having a real fight) went down between Brock and Orton? Like, it appeared at times Orton was trying to actually work, Brock wasn't having any of it, so Orton started throwing 100% full force clubbing forearms into Brock's back, which just made Brock angrier so he started shoulder blocking Orton even harder until Randy managed to squirm away. There were a few other spots like this, where it seemed to me Randy was trying to get Brock to work and Brock just wasn't cooperating and instead was intent on just doing suplexes and stuff. 

Also, do you think the sandbagging was on purpose, as in it was part of the story to make it seem real, or do you think Randy just wasn't about to go up for a bunch of Germans and decided to fight every last one of them?

I'm so confused with that match. I don't know how to make heads or tails of it. 

Also, I sincerely hope the hardway was Orton's idea. If someone actually approached him and said "Whaddya think about letting Brock split your noggin open with an elbow?" Then that's a really, really stupid. Blades were invented to prevent that sort of thing from needing to occur.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

honestly just happy I'm not the only one who feels this way about Balor after being on another board full of Balor marks :lmao


re: "sandbagging" - I don't think that was the case. Orton can't take Germans like others because of his shoulders, so he and Lesnar were protecting him. Lesnar wasn't even using his full force. That mother fucker could have tossed Randy if he wanted to.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> honestly just happy I'm not the only one who feels this way about Balor after being on another board full of Balor marks :lmao
> 
> 
> re: "sandbagging" - I don't think that was the case. Orton can't take Germans like others because of his shoulders, so he and Lesnar were protecting him. Lesnar wasn't even using his full force. That mother fucker could have tossed Randy if he wanted to.


You might be right. Although I disagree that Brock could have just "tossed" Orton for some Germans if he'd wanted to. Orton isn't a slouch, and he's strong as hell and also tall. If he was intent on not going up for those Germans, then Brock wasn't gonna be able to just toss him in the air. Brock would still be able to Suplex him, they'd just look a lot like what we got, and not like the Germans we are used to seeing from him. In order for Brock to get Orton to fly through the air on a German, he's gonna need some cooperation from Orton. That's just the truth.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I don't know where the sandbagging talk comes from. Maybe because Orton was clearly taking those suplexes flat on his back and nowhere near his neck? That was very noticeable (and smart). *


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

seabs said:


> *I don't know where the sandbagging talk comes from. Maybe because Orton was clearly taking those suplexes flat on his back and nowhere near his neck? That was very noticeable (and smart). *


You didn't notice how much Brock was struggling to Suplex Orton every time he went to give him a German? It looked like Old Man Flair taking a Suplex, in that they appeared like they were out of sync, or that Orton was sandbagging, or just that Orton was struggling not to let Brock deliver a full release German Suplex like he normally does. 

Normally when guys take Germans, they "go up" or jump right as Brock is lifting so he can easily toss them over his head. Last night, Orton got zero elevation on all the suplexes, Orton was essentially landing on top of Brock's head every time he went over. 

Orton's shoulder injuries could certainly have been the reason for that, maybe it was intentional.

I dunno. Like I said, that match has me so confused. I guess it's a good thing I can't tell what was planned and what wasn't, but at the same time, it just wasn't that entertaining for me to watch personally.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Gonna try doing this using the OP...should be fun.

Edit: That failed. Back to regular:

Jeriko/Enzocass: ***1/2 
Charlotte/Sasha: ***3/4
Miz/Crews: **1/2 
Cena/Styles: ****1/2
Ziggler/Ambrose: ***1/2
Sixwomantag: *3/4
Day/Club: **
Balor/Rollins: **3/4
Reigns/Rusev: DUD 
Lesnar/Orton: **1/4

A pretty strong start for the show just seemed to fall flat after Smackdown's two big matches.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Bálor/Rollins was hyped as fuck by some people, saying that it was a "dream match for a long time"... yeah right :lol :lol :lol

Both of them were underwhelming, but Bálor is worse. Is he a solid worker? Yeah, he is, but he is a bad wrestler, period. Nothing interesting, nothing. Not in NJPW, not in NXT, not in WWE. 

Ziggler/Ambrose was weird...probably the match that had the best build-up was...well, it happened. Put the title on AJ at Backlash and turn Dean heel. Ziggler going back to his purgatory.

AJ/Cena was, indeed, a spotfest...but I give that *****1/4*
When you have great wrestlers like Styles and John, and you have a solid storyline and a crowd that is fired up...even I can forgive a spotfest like this. The right guy won and the symbolism at the end with the armband thing was a nice touch.

Honorable mention to Sasha aka "She's gonna kill herself, her back is fucked up" against Charlotte. Stiffness and sloppy. And JeriKO is :lol :lol :lol love them

The rest of SS...meh. I'm sick of Brock Lesnar.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Immediately it felt better with the stage and set up etc, at least sets it apart from every other PPV they do. Feels like a bigger deal.

Enzo & Cass vs JeriKO was a fine opener, everyone played their roles exactly as they shoud have. Was missing something to make it really good for me but for what it was it served it's purpose. Enzo & Cass promo pre-match was amazing and they were the perfect act to open the show. Please can heels cheat to win though. Please.

Surprised Sasha/Charlotte was on second. It was really good as it usually is with these two. Definitely felt like they were trying to kill eachother. Top rope hurricanrana out of the razors edge attempt was an awesome spot and it got the crowd a bit more in to the match. The back work and selling was great throughout. Finish was kind of deflating though sadly. I'm not mad at Charlotte getting the title back, but Sasha should have at least had a longer reign, or maybe not won it on RAW and won it here instead. Why oh why? Good match though.

edit: Just read Seabs post above explaining the Sasha deal. That really sucks but it makes the move make sense.

Miz/Crews is a feud that is happening? I had no idea. Dull match really. Good god @ Maryse.

Cena/Styles started out well with Cena dominating but half way through it turned in to what I hoped it wouldn't. The Styles Clash and AA kick outs so early just took me out of it completely. So stupid. I get Styles Clash isn't AJ's finisher now it's the forearm but why has it never beaten anyone? It's clearly supposed to be a big deal when someone kicks out of it according to the commentators. Good job there. Just a series of moves from that point on but I will say it had some good moments. The super AA kickout actually did surprise me even though it was retarded, but Cena's reaction to it and AJ's selling of it was a great moment I thought. Cena's face bordered on goofy but I thought it was kind of amazing too. Put over the moment big time and put over Styles too. I have to say I loved that Styles won clean. But yeah, not great but with one really great moment. Cena moment after the match was good too.

Why have Anderson & Gallows got that lame gimmick? Fucking hell. New Days tights are incredible. I like John Stewart but please get off my tv when wrestling is on. Kofi had an amazing dive over the ropes near the start where he grabbed his dick in mid air. Or something. Whatever it was it ruled. Only good part of the match, the rest was pretty bad. John Stewart stuff was horrible. Big E coming out and demolishing people was cool though. Can Big E please be in the main event and stay in New Day? Gallows and Anderson are probably wishing they never signed, pretty sad what they've done with them. Then again every tag team that isn't New Day are made to look kind of shitty.

I actually liked the build for Ambrose/Ziggler, and the fire these two were showing during the introductions had me hopeful this might be something different than usual. Other than Ambrose heeling it up at points it was exactly the same as what these two would usually do aka boring and nothing. Ziggler is literally nothing.

Womens match was on. I didn't pay attention really. God damn I forgot how much I love Nikki Bella though. Like I actually think I'm in love.

Rollins/Balor was exactly what I thought it'd be. It's two guys who can't really put on great matches without the right opponents and I didn't think they were right at all. I watched it and didn't hate it but it was just there. Honestly there isn't anything to say about it. The push Balor is getting will surely get backlash from people. Also the Demon entrance would have worked so much better if they hadn't fucking done it on the RAW before.

Why in the fuck did they do the match with Reigns/Rusev on RAW and have this on the PPV? Fucking bewildering. Also the booking for this is absurd. How is Reigns supposed to get cheered in this stuff? He won clean on RAW too and then destroys Rusev here. Way to make a monster heel look good guys. Poor Rusev. Also poor Reigns because his booking continues to ruin any chance he's going to have at getting over. Unless they're turning him heel which I don't even think they're doing which makes it even stupider. Crowd popped for the spear but it felt like that was only because they wanted to see something happen.

Orton/Lesnar was what it was, an extended squash but I liked it and it was way better than if it had been something more like Lesnar/Ambrose. Orton deserves all the credit in the world for taking a legit beating in a pro wrestling match, but man, should a pro wrestler really be taking those elbows to the head? Like, those were legit elbows. Idk. Seems pretty stupid, but I suppose the reasoning is it puts Lesnar over as a legit fighter etc.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Balor got injured last night and they've agreed to relinquish the Universal Title on RAW.

Excuse me, but :lmao

Not to laugh at the injury, but this is exactly what you get for your shitty, lazy ass booking and sheer lack of creativity.

EDIT: Torn labrum. Out at least 6 months. Damn... that sucks.


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> You didn't notice how much Brock was struggling to Suplex Orton every time he went to give him a German? It looked like Old Man Flair taking a Suplex, in that they appeared like they were out of sync, or that Orton was sandbagging, or just that Orton was struggling not to let Brock deliver a full release German Suplex like he normally does.
> 
> Normally when guys take Germans, they "go up" or jump right as Brock is lifting so he can easily toss them over his head. Last night, Orton got zero elevation on all the suplexes, Orton was essentially landing on top of Brock's head every time he went over.
> 
> ...


It was definitely just the shoulders brother. Orton wasn't sandbagging, I'm sure they discussed how Orton was gonna take those and I'm sure Orton was just trying to make things look believable while protecting his shoulders (Orton doesn't get enough credit for little things like this). It didn't bother Brock as he was even pumped up while doing the germans at one point he shouted in an excited voice "How many is that ?"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rollins vs. Zayn was fantastic. Way better than the Balor match. Tremendous sell job from Zayn and ya know, there was a clear STORY. Loved it. *** 3/4

EDIT: Owens vs. Neville was really good too! Loved the sense of urgency. Neville's matches never follow the typical formula of anyone else on the roster and it's always refreshing to see him wrestle. *** 1/4


----------



## Mike Lucas (Aug 22, 2016)

Is anybody else falling asleep?


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Lol that's how you sell a motherfuckin' leg. 

Zayn's just too good. ***3/4 for that, better than anything from Summerslam.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rollins vs. Zayn was awesome. ***1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, we've got Rollins vs. Reigns vs. Owens vs. Big Cass (yeah forreal) next week for the belt. I know plans are obviously changing now with Finn's injury and I fully expect Seth to win this, but I hope they don't abandon the Reigns/Rusev program and resort back to Rollins/Reigns for an infinite number of months. Rusev _should_ logically come out and cost Reigns the match and all should work out, but I'm afraid they're gonna do away with it and this will get staler than a 3 day old biscuit.

On most occasions I would be rooting for Owens and thinking he's ready to be put in this spot, but it's kinda hard to take him seriously when he's out there fucking around with Jericho and needed his assistance to beat Neville. His win would just feel really empty to me unless he had a monster performance in the match. Who knows.

This really frustrates me that they locked up Cesaro into this stupid Best of 7 series because he would be PERFECT for this position as a serious contender. Rollins vs. Cesaro just has the look and feel of a fantastic in ring program and a perfect main event for a brand exclusive PPV. Damn it, bookers! This better happen at Survivor Series or something.

If I had to take an early stab at the Clash of Champions card, here's what I got:

Universal Title match: Rollins vs. I have no earthly idea... Zayn? Triple threat with Zayn & Owens? 

No Holds Barred U.S. Title Match: Rusev vs. Reigns

Tag Title Match: New Day vs. The Club (pretty much already confirmed)

Women's Title Match: Charlotte vs. Bayley (should be great)

Best of 7 Match Number 3 or 4: Cesaro vs. Sheamus

Titus vs. Darren and no one will care

Neville & Zayn vs. Jericho & Owens (idk, just something if none of these guys are in the main event)

Enzo & Cass vs. The Shining Stars? :lol

Nia Jax vs. Alicia Fox? Strowman vs. Mark Henry? God damn these rosters are thin :lol


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> You didn't notice how much Brock was struggling to Suplex Orton every time he went to give him a German? It looked like Old Man Flair taking a Suplex, in that they appeared like they were out of sync, or that Orton was sandbagging, or just that Orton was struggling not to let Brock deliver a full release German Suplex like he normally does.
> 
> Normally when guys take Germans, they "go up" or jump right as Brock is lifting so he can easily toss them over his head. Last night, Orton got zero elevation on all the suplexes, Orton was essentially landing on top of Brock's head every time he went over.
> 
> ...


*Yeah I noticed it and it was because he was taking the bumps on his back and nowhere near his neck/shoulder area. That's why he doesn't go up as high on them and they don't have the same release power because the higher you go up on them the higher up on your body you land. The only spot that looked a struggle was when Brock threw Randy over the barricade onto the table and it looked like Randy didn't go up smoothly but yeah, there's no way Randy sandbagged anyone. Remember this is the same match in which he ok'd BROCK LESNAR busting him open hardway with legit elbows to his head. *



Corey said:


> Well, we've got Rollins vs. Reigns vs. Owens vs. Big Cass (yeah forreal) next week for the belt. I know plans are obviously changing now with Finn's injury and I fully expect Seth to win this, but I hope they don't abandon the Reigns/Rusev program and resort back to Rollins/Reigns for an infinite number of months. Rusev _should_ logically come out and cost Reigns the match and all should work out, but I'm afraid they're gonna do away with it and this will get staler than a 3 day old biscuit.
> 
> On most occasions I would be rooting for Owens and thinking he's ready to be put in this spot, but it's kinda hard to take him seriously when he's out there fucking around with Jericho and needed his assistance to beat Neville. His win would just feel really empty to me unless he had a monster performance in the match. Who knows.
> 
> ...


*They won't not do Reigns/Rusev. I mean I should never say WWE won't do something that makes total sense but the fact that they don't have Rusev in the match next week screams Rusev coming down and taking Reigns out just as he has it won. I spose Rollins has to win. Him or Owens but one has been slotted in that spot for 2 years now and the other and has been nowhere near it after his first 2 months and has been doing comedy shtick the last month. I have no idea who he faces. The best option of who is free on paper is Zayn but he just beat him last night. Not that that stops them but it would be weak. Cesaro is indeed a good option. There keeps coming these opening that would be perfect for Cesaro to have a one off program much further up the card (Summerslam vs Ambrose) and they keep going to other guys in the same predicament as him while he has to wrestle the same guy for 3 straight months now. He must be fuming. The issue with Zayn and Owens is that you really have to keep them separate for a good while now but you've got them on the same roster that is already super thin and you're just making it even thinner having them together but apart. Clash will be after the Cruiserweight Division debuts though remember so that's a handy intake of talent to boost the Raw shows up. 

I suspect the Clash show will be really strong. Charlotte/Bayley, Reigns/Rusev and Sheamus/Cesaro will all be good and potentially even better than that. New Day/The Club should have an actual match this time which should be good. You have Zayn and Owens in at least one other match which has to be good. Enzo/Cass are a good spot whoever they face. And then the Cruiserweights. 

This next SD PPV is the one I really worry about. Usos/Alpha has my interest but I can't even think of anything else I could fantasy book to make me want to watch. I guess we're getting Ambrose/AJ but it's Ambrose so fuck off. Maybe no Cena but the problem with Cena is there's nobody for him to face on that entire roster that would interest me. Really Orton should be off the show for the next month selling the Lesnar massacre. Bray/Dolph? Jeezus. Miz/Crews again. Kallisto/Corbin. Nikki/Becky. Good lord. *


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

seabs said:


> *Yeah I noticed it and it was because he was taking the bumps on his back and nowhere near his neck/shoulder area. That's why he doesn't go up as high on them and they don't have the same release power because the higher you go up on them the higher up on your body you land. The only spot that looked a struggle was when Brock threw Randy over the barricade onto the table and it looked like Randy didn't go up smoothly but yeah, there's no way Randy sandbagged anyone. Remember this is the same match in which he ok'd BROCK LESNAR busting him open hardway with legit elbows to his head. *
> 
> 
> *They won't not do Reigns/Rusev. I mean I should never say WWE won't do something that makes total sense but the fact that they don't have Rusev in the match next week screams Rusev coming down and taking Reigns out just as he has it won. I spose Rollins has to win. Him or Owens but one has been slotted in that spot for 2 years now and the other and has been nowhere near it after his first 2 months and has been doing comedy shtick the last month. I have no idea who he faces. The best option of who is free on paper is Zayn but he just beat him last night. Not that that stops them but it would be weak. Cesaro is indeed a good option. There keeps coming these opening that would be perfect for Cesaro to have a one off program much further up the card (Summerslam vs Ambrose) and they keep going to other guys in the same predicament as him while he has to wrestle the same guy for 3 straight months now. He must be fuming. The issue with Zayn and Owens is that you really have to keep them separate for a good while now but you've got them on the same roster that is already super thin and you're just making it even thinner having them together but apart. Clash will be after the Cruiserweight Division debuts though remember so that's a handy intake of talent to boost the Raw shows up.
> ...



Man, I hope to god you are right re: the Reigns/Rusev feud. Squashing that feud and shoehorning Reigns into the top spot again would be such a WWE thing to do. Especially because Reigns just destroyed Rusev at Summerslam, it would be just like Vince to fuck Rusev over and never let him get his retribution on Reigns, and in Vince's mind use that beat down as justification that "Reigns is really strong right now, he's gotta be the next champ!"

I really, REALLY hope that's not what happens.....


I'm 100% in agreement with you all that this would have been the PERFECT spot for Cesaro to step into and show he's a main event caliber guy. I wish I could understand why they insist on sticking him in this pointless best of 7 with Sheamus. Absolutely nothing is going to be gained from it, by either party, and it actually might end up doing damage to them if the crowds start tuning out during their endless series of matches if they don't manage to keep them sufficiently different and unique from one bout to the next.

Missed Zayn/Rollins from last night but that's definitely on my list to watch here in the next day or so.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Really Orton should be off the show for the next month selling the Lesnar massacre


Knowing them, he'll probably be back ASAP instead of them actually letting this play out like it should.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown's roster is too weak to have Orton take substantial time off. Cena is heading off for a bit as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah Backlash won't be as good on paper as the Clash I don't think, but the potential of Ambrose/Styles excites me because that's probably where AJ is winning the belt and maybe they get ballsy and try a double turn. Idk. Usos/Alpha should be great too and I actually like the depth they have in the women's division with Nikki, Natalya, Naomi, Becky, and Alexa now. Not as good on top as RAW, but certainly deeper. I'm still guessing they do Orton/Wyatt if Orton is even still around. Maybe have him come out to cut a promo while he's bandaged up and Wyatt interrupts?

They may as well do Miz/Ziggler for the IC Title cause I don't think there's any other faces left besides Kalisto. Ziggler goes on a losing streak before completely snapping?

Can we get Luke Harper or Samoa Joe signed to SD as free agents please? Heel Joe vs. Face AJ for the WWE Title sounds incredible.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> Yeah Backlash won't be as good on paper as the Clash I don't think, but the potential of Ambrose/Styles excites me because that's probably where AJ is winning the belt and maybe they get ballsy and try a double turn. Idk. Usos/Alpha should be great too and I actually like the depth they have in the women's division with Nikki, Natalya, Naomi, Becky, and Alexa now. Not as good on top as RAW, but certainly deeper. I'm still guessing they do Orton/Wyatt if Orton is even still around. Maybe have him come out to cut a promo while he's bandaged up and Wyatt interrupts?
> 
> They may as well do Miz/Ziggler for the IC Title cause I don't think there's any other faces left besides Kalisto. Ziggler goes on a losing streak before completely snapping?
> 
> Can we get Luke Harper or Samoa Joe signed to SD as free agents please? Heel Joe vs. Face AJ for the WWE Title sounds incredible.


My feeling is that once Joe has his rematch with Nakamura that they are going to be sending him to SD! to try and add some star power. He'd fit in great there, he's got the history with AJ and they can rekindle that feud anytime, he's got history with Cena and that can be a real dream pairing/matchup for a lot of folks (myself included), there are just a lot of good possibilities for him. 

If they would just do the Cesaro/Owens for Orton swap, and call up Joe, SD! would immediately become 10x more interesting and have a lot more talent top to bottom to mix and match with for feuds.

Plus, Orton shouldn't be in TV for at least 2 weeks, he could take his time coming back on Raw with the loaded crew they have.

I'd love to see SD! do Styles/Cesaro, Owens/Joe, and Cena/Ambrose feuds throughout the next calendar year.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Summerslam was...weird. I felt uncomfortable watching Sasha clearly in considerable pain fighting her way through that match but I applaud Charlotte for focusing her attack on the back. I thought her work was actually rather excellent in that regard. There were a few botches in this one that hurt the flow, and of course Sasha's injury too. The finish was a surprise and didn't sit well with me in the moment but it all makes sense now. 

Cena/Styles was...exactly what I expected it to be. I had a ton of fun watching this because it's hard not to get caught up when people are going nuts all around you. But I'm calling it as it is; this was an advanced finisher fest. Obviously leagues above Cena/Rock and they had some really cool spots in this one. I LOVED the Cena face moment and thought that was some awesome storytelling. I just wish that a little more of that had been present from the beginning of the match instead of showing up right at the death. Place lost its shit for Styles going over. This was lots of fun but nowhere near a classic imo. I think Cena has settled into a formula with his matches these days. They're all kind of the same affair lately with him busting out a few different moves in each one to keep them somewhat fresh. 

Ambrose/Ziggler fucking sucked. I knew it would suck and I wasn't the least bit surprised that it did. Place was dead. I went to get food. Whatever. 

Balor/Rollins could have been something really good but fuck the crowd for being butthurt over a stupid belt. I can't remember even being so mad at thousands of people. I was really looking forward to this one and Barclays ruined it for me. Well done Brooklyn. It sucks even more to know Balor was legit hurt and still continued on while being shat on by a bunch of entitled idiots. I hope to see a rematch between these two down the line. 

Brock/Orton was...different. I'm a big Brock fan but I'm tiring on the suplex city stuff just like a lot of others. In saying that though, when he started throwing bombs and we all realized Orton was busted open - I'll be damned if that wasn't an equally uncomfortable but thrilling viewing experience. I can't believe so many people thought this was real, even Jericho lol. I just pray to holy God that we don't get Shane McMahon vs. Lesnar. I really struggled to buy Shane as a threat to Taker but I just can't do it with Brock. I can't. Brock has gone through Taker, Cena, Reigns, Rollins, Punk, HHH, Show, all of them. Fuck WWE if they think for one second I'm going to buy Shane McMahon as being able to land a single shot without dying. I really hope that match doesn't happen. 

Raw was a lot of fun. Sami/Rollins was great. I was really close to the ring for Raw and could see Sami's face. He looked like he was in real fucking pain and I bought it. Incredible selling from him and great match. I really enjoyed Reigns/Jericho too. I think that has to be Jericho's best match all damn year. Maybe I'm biased because I was there live but the place was buzzing for this and there was a real sense of unpredictability over who would win. Really fun match and I have to say, Reigns is a beast to see from that close. He's so explosive in the ring. For the first time I actually got to appreciate what he has to offer in there. Solid stuff from those two. 

Overall it was a fun weekend with NXT taking pride of place once again. It's just a completely different mind set, show atmosphere and attitude from the fans of the regular WWE shows. I'm just glad I don't feel 100% ripped off like I did at the end of Mania 32 weekend. I got my money's worth and that's the most important thing in the end I guess.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah I had fun with Reigns/Jericho too because of the last couple minutes. I mean, I knew that Jericho had no shot of winning because you're not gonna tell me Big fucking Cass is gonna be the only babyface in a 4-way title match and expect me to think he has any chance at all, but they got me good with that codebreaker nearfall. Shame it all meant nothing and Reigns was back at full force in no time, but hey it was a fun moment.

Guess we'll have to see how SD plays out tonight to see what their immediate plans are. Only 3 weeks til Backlash so I imagine they'll jump on things quickly. Orton, Miz, Wyatt, and Ziggler are totally up in the air for me with what they do next so it'll be interesting. If they go back to Ambrose/Wyatt it'll be shit.

EDIT: By the way, the Backlash poster is cool as shit, honestly.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm excited for tonights show - hoping Ambrose continues his character development and we see even more of the cocky Ambrose that we saw. I can see him coming out to the ring once is music hits to a mixed reception following Summerslams result and the way in which he acted during the match, cut a killer promo on how he told everyone he'd retain and beat Ziggler and that's exactly what he did, how he's never losing the title etc only for then AJ Styles to cut him off to a huge pop and they go head to head. Ambrose says he isn't giving AJ Styels a shot and he has to prove himself to him etc.

AJ Styles has a match later that night, Ambrose does commentary and perhaps screws him from winning or causes a DQ win for the opponent, Ambrose goes on to say AJ Styles couldn't even get the job done against the superstar he was up against and doesn't get a title shot. This goes on for weeks, Ambrose wins his next title feud (which isnt against AJ Styles), and they build and draw out AJ/Ambrose.

I think Summerslam showed Ambrose is getting to the "cocky, overconfident" persona about him and I think AJ Styles is the PERFECT superstar to put him up against to get the crowd fully against him, I mean they were even booing him at times during Summerslam. You can just see the feud now can't you? Ambrose coming to the ring, doing the AJ Styles taunt with the hands and then laughing at the crowd whilst they boo.

Book it WWE.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Holy fuck, that Backlash poster :tripsblessed


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corey said:


> Does anyone else feel like Nakamura has been outworked in virtually every one of his major matches since coming to NXT? After rewatching I thought Joe looked like a fucking monster last night. He was just so focused & nasty and sold those knees wonderfully at the end. Will probably go *** 3/4 for the match for a few moments that I _really_ liked.
> 
> I can say now that Aries, Balor, and Joe have outshined him in their matches together. Zayn match could go either way I guess.
> 
> Wonder what challengers they have lined up for him in the future. Roode seems the logical guess.


I disagree, completely. 

Out of 4 "major" matches he's had (Zayn, Aries, Balor, Joe) the ONLY match where I felt like his opponent turned in a better performance than him was the Zayn match. Nakamura was indeed GREAT in that match, it's just to me Zayn gave the performance of a lifetime, one of the best performances I've seen in a long, LONG, time. It doesn't matter who Zayn worked, that performance would have been better than his opponent 999/1000. It's the best he's ever been in the ring that I've seen (he might have been better in a match I haven't seen, you'd have to ask @Obfuscation he's the Zayn expert). 

Still, as great as Zayn was, it feels downright wrong for me to say Nakamura was outshone or out worked in that match. I've now watched that match 4 times, and every single time it's held up as a perfect ***** match. It had everything you could possibly want, it had drama, emotion, suspense, storytelling, psychology, and not a single goddamn botch or fault to these trained eyes. So, seeing as how it's a perfect ***** match in my eyes, had Nakamura done ANYTHING different, or "worked harder", or "shined brighter", it would risk hurting the match. You don't fuck with perfection, and you don't say one guy out worked the other in a 5-star match.

The next big match was the Aries match, I've seen it 3 times now and it's held firm at **** each time. I have no idea what you're seeing when you say Aries out worked Nakamura in that match. Aries was GREAT, don't get me wrong, I really really dug what he did, and his heel work was damn good, but did he carry the match, outwork Nakamura, or outshine Nakamura in anyway? Absolutely not. Not to me, and not to the crowd, and not to all the fans watching NXT. 

The Balor match was his weakest outing in WWE so far, but I don't think for a single second Balor out worked Nakamura or that Nakamura was more responsible for it not being great than Balor was. There is no point debating who was better in a mediocre match anyway, so I'll just stop here.

Finally, the Joe match. I was prompted to reply to this post because I just rewatched it for the first time, literally my screen is frozen with a pick of Nak's crazy face right after the ref counted 3. 

I think this was an AWESOME match. I really, REALLY liked it. Everything about it was right on point. I loved the pacing, loved the story, loved the focus on submissions, and loved what both guys brought to the table. Right now I want to give it ****1/4, I think this just supplanted Nak/Aries as his 2nd best NXT outing.

Joe WAS a monster here. He was on fucking point and his intensity definitely jumps out at you when you watch it. However, that's how he's supposed to be. He's presented and booked as a monster, a monster has to be intense at all times. Nakamura on the other hand is the antithesis of a monster, he's the rock star, he's too cool for school, he's the artist who just happens to use a wrestling ring as his canvas. It would be silly for him to come in all juiced up and full of piss and vinegar. Not only that, but the story they were going for, Joe thinks Nakamura is disrespectful and a "punk" and is out to teach him some manners and show him his place. Nakamura on the other hand is supposed to be non plused about this whole thing, Joe is being too up tight and that if Joe really has a problem with him, come find him, he's chilling right here. 

That's basically it, these are two baby faces so they were limited in the story they could tell, so they just chose the most natural and sensible story. I loved it, because it felt REAL. 

Nakamura's ring work reflects his character. He's non chalant, not intimidated, not overly serious or intense, and completely and utterly comfortable no matter what situation he's in. He's not being lazy, or letting guys outwork him. His style is, you bring the fight to me, I'll counter whatever you've got, and probably cave your face in with a knee, no matter what you try cause I'm the King of Strong Style and you aren't, and nothing will ever bother me or make me deviate from my game plan. 

That's why he's gotten over so quickly and effectively, his ring work matches his character to a T, fans are buying in right away because he's REAL, at least to our eyes. There is no disconnect, he's exactly what the announcers say he is, an enigmatic, charismatic superstar. Jim Ross said it best "When you see Nakamura, you want to look at him some more. When you watch him wrestle, you can't take your eyes off him. Any and everything he does draws your eyeballs and absorbs your attention." He's cool, he knows he's cool, and his ring work reflects his character and attitude perfectly.


One last thing: try to remember that Nakamura is not the same as Joe, or Aries, or Zayn. He didn't join NXT after already having worked in the indy's in the US for years. He isn't buddies already with all the guys he's working. Zayn said so himself, he'd never even spoken a word to Shinsuke before the bell rang and they started wrestling. So, he's going to be a little less assertive than he normally would be. He's going to let his opponent lead the match, because they are the ones who have been working in front of US fans for years and know what works, and also because they have tenure over him. AND, he might even be trying to make his peers see he's not selfish and in it for himself, he's in it for the match. I imagine guys in the locker room were a bit nervous about him in the beginning. Not only is this guy coming in with the gimmick that he's the King of Strong Style aka the King of Being Really REALLY Stiff, but Japanese guys, especially top guys, have a history of being arrogant when they come to the US. In Japan once you pay your dues and are a vet, you're expected to treat the underneat "young boys" somewhat harshly, and to not afford them the same respect you pay to the fellow vets. So, the guys in NXT might have been nervous about working him, whether he was just gonna kick the everlasting shit out of them, whether he was gonna no sell their stuff and crap on them, whether he was gonna come in and act like an entitled prick and treat other guys like young boys, etc. 

So, it's not only possible but probable that Nakamura was just doing what most new guys do when they come in: sell their asses off, and then sell some more, let your opponent have more offense and try to make them look as strong as possible (especially cause you're going over in the end and as a new guy that can cause jealousy and hard feelings), show the guys in the back that you are "business" and will make them look GREAT even if they are losing to you, and also defer the "leading" of the match to your opponent, let them control things and call the shots, so they know you're humble and don't think you're entitled and don't have to pay any dues.

It's a tradition in wrestling to act and behave this way when you join a new promotion, it's how you get guys to trust you.

Oh, and he's Japanese and has never lived outside of Japan besides a short stretch in LA at the NJPW dojo where he was still surrounded by Japanese people all the time. He's working for a new company, the biggest company in the world, he has no idea who is a good, trustworthy guy and who isn't, and he's living in a strange foreign country for the first time. I'd say he's adapted and immersed himself far better than you could ever expect.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Not one for the false finish-a-rama usually but this isnt coming at the expense of true finishers and that last false finish actually got me which rarely happens and they made the right move protecting AJ. You know what, a nice, exciting match. I'm in a chill mood tonight just wanted to watch some rasslin and that delivered enough for me. Im not on my old school psychology/sense high horse. ***1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@IT'S VADER TIME we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on some of this. It wasn't meant to be a diss of any sort on Nakamura and I'm fully aware of his character and how he works and all that. I just simply think 3 of his major opponents have outworked him (not referring to Zayn). I wouldn't say he's known for his selling though nor is it really one of his strong suits imo. That was clear in the Balor match specifically and several others he had in New Japan. I thought Balor looked probably the best I've seen him since coming to NXT (whether that really means anything or not is up to the individual person) with the aggression and focus but Nak didn't bother to sell the injury at all. When I think of the matches with Joe & Aries, I'm gonna remember those two for making the match what it was instead of Nak. I don't really take into account how the fans react or what they thought because we obviously all knew the guy was mega over and how they present him has a lot to do with that too. I'm not saying he was carried by any means but I do think that those three opponents put more effort and work into their matches than Nakamura did (regardless of character or personality portrayal).

IMO 

I do like a lot of the points you made in the last couple paragraphs about being less assertive and letting them work the matches (seems apparent after watching them).


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

American Alpha vs. FaBreeze and Styles vs. Ziggler... god damn, Smackdown. Plus dat Miz promo on Bryan on the network. :mark:

Smackdown is so much better than Raw lmao


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Styles/Ziggler was a very good TV match, good story with AJ wearing down the body and Ziggler having to fight through it.

And The Miz cut the promo of the year on Daniel Bryan on Talking Smack.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

That Miz promo was *godlike*.

Fuck me, Talking Smack is the greatest thing going in the WWE right now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I haven't watched Smackdown yet, but I did just watch Talking Smack and holy shit... that was intense. (Y) Miz should not be losing that belt anytime soon until someone can REALLY step up as a midcard babyface or Shelton arrives. Crews ain't cuttin it.

Is this a double turn with Carmella and Nikki? Cause if so that's totally unexpected and I like it.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

I struggle to think of a good match that has a bad video promo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dooze said:


> I struggle to think of a good match that has a bad video promo.


Honestly, has the WWE (or even any other company, for that matter) ever made a bad promo package, for the matter? That's the one thing that can be praised until the end of time - their packages have always been great.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Hunter Hearst Helmsley won the Elimination Chamber to retain the World Heavyweight Title at SummerSlam 2003 from the America West Arena in Phoenix, Arizona.

I was there!

- Vic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Decided to give this week's CWC a try, worth it. For one match only, though. Swann/Lince wasn't all that good, very no-selly and goofy in a meh way, but it had its moments. 

But HOLY SHIT, ZSJ/Gulak was something else. That wasn't a wrestling match, that was a torture festival. It probably won't be for everyone, but I really dug it. Gulak's strenght vs. ZSJ's tenacity, as the bigger and bulkier guy tried to humilliate Sabre Jr. by out "technicalling" him, while ZSJ had a counter for every submission, but not quite for the power and the strikes. Both got in some excellent and totally believable struggle sequences, and then just absolutely tearing each other apart w/nasty holds and strikes, while still telling a coherent story in the process. It was basically the WWE version of an Ishii/Shibata match, and it was glorious.

Meanwhile, Gargano/Perkins was quite the indy showboating, but at least Gargano sold the knee pretty nicely, so whatever. That being said, Perkins is a fucking moron for ignoring the injured limb all but three different times during a 12 minute match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> On this day, Hunter Hearst Helmsley won the Elimination Chamber to retain the World Heavyweight Title at SummerSlam 2003 from the America West Arena in Phoenix, Arizona.
> 
> I was there!
> 
> - Vic


Goldberg, from; 

:mark:

to



In the same match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My CWC thoughts for this week. http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-7/ not exactly a good watch this time around lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Big Cal's World Surprised you didn't enjoy ZSJ/Gulak a bit more. I too became a little wary of all the counters, but I didn't mind. I felt they played into the story nicely, after all. But oh well. 

Glad somebody agrees that Gargano/Perkins kinda sucked, that match is getting its dick deepthroated by everybody else


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown thoughts:

- Man those new title belts are GORGEOUS. I think the blue on the women's title looks better than the red one and the blue & silver combination is wayyyyyyyy easier on the eyes than those ugly ass bronze things New Day has. The Universal title deserves some of the flack it's getting because it has a _completely_ different name, therefore probably should've had a different design (although I think the belt itself looks really good if you forget the name), but I love these new Smackdown belts. Also, Slater is so over right now. It's hilarious.

- I really like that they're doing the 6 pack challenge for the Women's Title because that makes it completely unpredictable and a match that I don't think has ever happened before with the ladies. You'd have to think that Becky is the favorite, but Natalya and Nikki being involved really shakes things up and Becky never wins anything. 

- I like the idea of a double turn between Carmella and Nikki because it's totally unexpected and will work. Nikki was already getting face reactions upon her return and it's better to keep her that way because of her association with Cena/Bryan/Brie. The execution was great too & I loved the follow up on Talking Smack.

- Orton & Wyatt huh? Called that one out of nothing else for them to do. Certainly feels out of nowhere though. Can't really think of any logical reasons for Bray to wanna fight him... but it's happening. :lol Match could be good, not sure how their chemistry will be. Wyatt needs the win but I don't think he's gonna get it.

- American Alpha vs. Breezeango was really fun. That tucked head superkick Breeze does always gets great reactions. Would love to see them get a run with the belts in the future but I know that's not happening. (*** 1/4) Predicting that we get an Usos/Alpha final with Usos cheating to win the belts at Backlash.

- Styles vs. Ziggler was really good and the build throughout the night for it was great. I didn't love it as much as some other people, but it was a quality main event that got more time than normal. AJ's work on top was good and Ziggler sold his arm/shoulder thing well. Dolph's signature moves really me though so the enjoyment can only go so far. Had some good nearfalls and AJ did an awesome job of getting his shoulder up at the appropriate last second to where it doesn't look ridiculous (Kurt Angle I'm lookin at you). *** 1/2

Such a breeze of a show.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown is truly a great show post-split. Even the edition where a lot of top talents were overseas was still much, much easier to watch than the Raw that had all of their talents on hand.


I don't know how I should feel for not watching a full episode of the CWC yet. I've only watched like... three matches, I think.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Didn't really care for anything on this week's CWC, which is pretty much what I was expecting after I saw the lineup. Swann vs. Dorado was moves. Sabre vs. Gulak had some nifty moments and I liked how they started, but it was pretty much just submissions for the hell of it and your usual Sabre having a counter for everything deal. Perkins/Gargano was more moves and I don't really understand why Perkins won, unless he had already a signed a deal at that point and they wanna push him. Gargano should've definitely won the match after TJ's face was demolished into the turnbuckle twice. It was pretty cool how they played the leg injury story into the match coming off of Takeover Brooklyn, but what the hell why didn't Perkins even go after it? That weird spot where Gargano overshot the dive would've made a lot more sense had he done so.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Wow I thought I was down on Swann/Dorado because it did nothing for me and then Cal lay that on them. The match wasn't bad but it didn't do anything for me. Didn't feel like anything clicked to produce much of anything. Not in a wow these two just have no chemistry together sense but like the stuff they did do just felt like it was trying to be better than it was. Cal, Dorado has been around for ages and while Swann is newer he's been around all decade, toured Dragon Gate and been in some high profile stuff. Neither are Ho Ho Lun. And neither are anywhere near being bad either. I mean the match wasn't really good (or bad) but neither guys are bad. I came away from Zack/Gulal thinking it was really good and the most I enjoyed a match all series. Not sure it passes the remembrance test because sitting here thinking about it the next day I'm struggling to remember why I liked it that much after the finish but hey ho. I think going into it with no expectations helped. Like if I had expected them to have the match they had I probably wouldn't have thought half as much of it. Both guys brought tons of fire and grit to this which is the main thing that pushed this up from yeah this was decent to wow that was actually really good. First time Gulak has ever done anything for me. I'm kinda surprised that Zack has been getting so much stick from people being introduced to him through this show. Did not see that coming. I did call him not excelling in shorter matches and being another Chris Hero case where working shorter TV matches doesn't get him over because he's so used to working long matches and that's what gets him over on the Indies. I spose that's the case with Zack but it doesn't fully explain it. TJP/Gargano was the epitome of too much too fast. Like jesus guys give your spots time to breathe and for us to appreciate them. It was a shame because Gargano's turned into a pretty good sympathetic babyface between this show and TakeOver but they never gave us time to follow the Gargano working from behind on a bad leg story or appreciate it. I don't even really know how the selling was because it felt at times he was but then he wasn't but it's also so hard to really follow a leg sell when you're spending no time lying around actually selling it because you have to pop straight back up for the next spot. Also super cool how they worked in the leg injury angle from TakeOver even though this was taped over a month ago and the commentators even brought up the TakeOver match which wouldn't have happened for another 4-6 weeks I think so that was a really cool touch. On that note Bryan was pretty grating this week. I saw someone on PWO compare him to Gabe on the old ROH shows and while it's not that extreme I thought it was pretty apt and the comparison I was looking for to use myself but couldn't put my finger on it. He sounded really forced and phony throughout this show and wasn't calling it in a natural voice. Like he has his normal voice, his genuine psyched up voice and then his fake psyched up voice. I'm also nearly totally over Mauro. There was a terrible strike exchange between Swann and Dorado and he decided that was the time to compare it to the Takayama/Frye and I'm like just close the door behind you now dude. I'm all for him name dropping Hiroshi Hase when someone does a bridging suplex because it fits the spot but too often now it's becoming forced in just so he can show off. I'm sure it's always been like that but I've been watching more of Mauro than normal this week so it's obviously coming off worse. Like the other week he referenced Tajiri vs Finlay from SMASH and it's kinda cool as a novelty thing but then you're also like dude we get it, you watch as much as we do and you really know your shit but Rich Swann vs Lince Dorado on the Cruiserweight Classic is not the time for a Yoshihiro Takayama name drop.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Summerslam was worth it for us to get this.

:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

KEVIN FUCKING OWENS :mark:

just watched the 2002 and 2003 Elimination Chambers, and Jeff Jarrett vs Booker T Bash at the Beach 2000. been watching random stuff, enjoying it. i've got a whole damn library to choose from now, its rad.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I enjoyed the hell out of ZSJ/Gulak, and I hardly ever have anything nice to say about Gulak. Fun jump start, and with it, Gulak found the grit so often missing with ZSJ in many of his matches. That was going hold for hold, counter for counter, people! Something mostly forgotten about these days, and the two did it with such exceptional pacing that it didn't feel preordained/choreographed. Not too fast or slow, and some of the strikes were seriously on point. Probably my second/third favorite match of the tournament after Gargano/Ciampa and Ibushi/Cedric. The two showed a lot of chemistry, and Gulak got the best out of ZSJ. Crowd was super into it too, just a well worked match all around. ***1/4-1/2


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

ZSJ vs. Gulak was fun, about ***-***1/4. Nice little mat exhibition in the beginning, solid-looking submissions (that Gory Special, oh boy) and counters, good stuff.

But my God at Sabre Jr., how bad was that sell on the slap? It did look pretty nasty, but fuck me. I know he was going for a "where the fuck am I?" look, but that was more like a "where the fuck am I? I thought I'd left my car here, but these streets all look the same, so I'll go check the next block. Gotta buy a pack of cigarettes, too" look.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Corey said:


> Smackdown thoughts:
> 
> I really like that they're doing the 6 pack challenge for the Women's Title because that makes it completely unpredictable and a match that I don't think has ever happened before with the ladies. You'd have to think that Becky is the favorite, but Natalya and Nikki being involved really shakes things up and Becky never wins anything.


It's actually been done and arguably the GOAT won.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Trish :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:sodone :sodone

KO-Maniaaaaa!!!

*** 3/4 for the match but HOLY SHIT did I not expect this at all. What a crazy ending.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

BEST MAIN EVENT EVER


20 STARS.

(***1/2)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I read what happened in the Main Event to Raw.

Me and my girl watched the Main Event of Raw.

Girl became wet because of what happened in the ME of Raw.

It was a fun morning.



*ALL HAIL KO MANIA.*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark: :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:

I'M MARKING OUT BRO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I tried watching Smackdown from last week.

It's p. much unbearable at only two hours a week. So I'm still perplexed as the mark perception that it is miles better than RAW when both are the drizzling shits. Besides its bad enough this is a show that is favoring Dolph Ziggler over Cesaro and I'm supposed to buy that. This company, I swear. Then where is the IC championship division? There's no time for it b/c they can't format a two hour show properly, bloody hell. It's all crap.

But god damn how does something like Takeover: Brooklyn II happen and I love it from start to finish? I just don't get it. Same company, two minor parallels of business, and it's a literal night and day turn out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Side note: Sami Zayn's leg selling last week was on a different level. Deplorable booking be damned, he's going to still give you something to talk about.

There's that for random praise, before everything got bleak. Rusev selling his injuries during his entrance too. <3


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

The Mega Powers Vs. Andre & Dibiase at SummerSlam 1988 was a fun main event.

- Vic


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

has anyone watched or reviewed the Attitude Era Vol. 3 DVD yet?


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I could stop watching the CWC right now, because I honestly don't think anything is gonna top Ibushi/Kendrick.

Kendrick's desperation to remain relevant in a tournament full of stronger, faster, younger guys, while being a great touch that was present in his other matches, was *palpable* in this. 

So much great CHARACTER WORK by Brian in this. For every few hits he landed on Ibushi, Ibushi only needed one to counter and it'd have twice the effect. Every kick looked like it murdered Kendrick (and there weren't even that many thrown, just every single one was enough to nearly knock him out), the guy was selling everything like death, by the first few minutes he already looked exhausted, almost pitiful trying to hang in there with the tournament favourite. Then he finds an opening and busts out a nasty-looking neckbreaker onto the turnbuckle and just starts wrenching his neck with cravates, locking in the Bully Choke and even busting out the Sliced Bread #2 way too early for it to be a legit nearfall, but showing perfectly how eager he is to hurt this motherfucker's neck and try to end it as soon as possible, or at least just wear him down enough for it to be easier to go anything close to toe-to-toe with him.

*BEAUTIFUL* German off the second rope, Brian's so worn out by this point that he just says "fuck it all" and hits Ibushi with a GODDAMN BURNING HAMMER. He's *that* fucking desperate. And after that Kota *still* gets the upper hand, goes for the Phoenix Splash, fucking misses and Brian locks in the Bully Choke and everyone's just pulling for him to get the tap. Unfortunately for him, Ibushi still manages to counter into a pin, Brian kicks out, they get up and once again Kendrick's put down by a huge fuckin' kick to the head, and finally gets finished with the Last Ride. You can feel the disappointment in Danielson's voice, guy even starts crying during the post-match. Bryan's commentary has felt forced at times during this tournament, but this was pretty much as real as it gets.

Absolutely amazing. ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2, I really fuckin' loved this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cleavage said:


> has anyone watched or reviewed the Attitude Era Vol. 3 DVD yet?


I started watching it last week and i'm only half way through the first disc of the BD, atm. The non commentary factor on the matches is something you have to get used to, but i have watched many a house show match in the past, so it's not so much of a deal. Plus it's great to have all these never before seen matches before at our fingertips, from this era.

Watched the first ever televised Taker/Mankind match, a good Austin/Bret match from Germany and a fun Taker/Bret vs Owen Hart/British Bulldog tag, that gave us this wonderful image:










Got Austin/HBK, also from Kuwait, to watch next.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Really good CWC episode. Muaro officially lost me this episode with "like DJ Khaled, Future & Jay-Z, Daniel, you've got the keys to this match". Just fuck off. I don't mind him when he's not in parody mode but I don't think he's super great either. I guess I'm saying his ceiling is at good but that's not a high enough ceiling to make me look past the annoying shit. Tozawa/Metalik was very good. I watched it last night and I'm not even sure why off memory it was very good, just one of those matches where it just was ok! Kinda surprised to see Tozawa go out but this isn't PWG Tozawa and Metalik has also been good. Plus Metalik/Ibushi is the match I want most now with what's left along with Ibushi/Swann. Thought the finish was a bit odd in having Metalik taking Tozawa's finish only to kick out and the next spot is Metalik hitting his finish for the win. Needed to be more in between the two spots.

Ibushi/Kendrick was awesome and only behind Zayn/Nakamura, Zayn/Joe and Omega/Naito for me this year. Kendrick has been a total revelation from this show. I've always kinda liked Kendrick but he's also not had a high ceiling, certainly nowhere near as high as it's been this show. All of a sudden out of nowhere he's become the best babyface anywhere in the world and literally the one guy that I'm really rooting for to win wrestling matches. Sure there's guys on the main roster and even in NXT that I like but I don't really care if they win their matches or not because at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Take Owens winning the world title for instance. It just doesn't matter. He won it via luck in kayfabe and real life sense and I can pretty much guarantee that come this time next year he'll be back in the midcard where he's been his entire run besides the Cena feud. I mean it's a cool moment for Kevin Steen the person but it isn't a career defining win that shapes the rest of his run in WWE. The title is just a prop. And this Cruiserweight belt likely will be too. But if Kendrick spends a year clawing his way up the division to win that belt THEN the belt means something and the guy winning it means something. Kendrick has that where him winning and losing a wrestling match means something to him and thus me now. I totally welled up at the end when Bryan came down to the ring too. I was fearing Hunter would do the Cedric thing again and that would have totally killed the moment but then Bryan came down and it was so perfect. I guess Kendrick gets signed and goes to Raw because that's where the Division is but for fucks sake how do you not have General Manager Daniel Bryan not bring this guy onto his show and give him an opportunity. I mean the whole Daniel Bryan as GM thing is kinda daft anyway because it's just Daniel Bryan reciting lines and stories that someone else wrote rather than yeah Bryan Danielson would absolutely bring in all these cool NXT guys while Stephanie sticks with the usual suspects. But Bryan bringing Kendrick in and it all builds to him challenging for the World Title on a PPV (fuck it shoot him all the way to the top) would be amazing and the perfect foil for a heel champ to feud with the babyface GM. I mean just keep it to the IC belt and bring him in to face The Miz. I mean if that isn't literal storyline perfection then I don't know what is. But if it builds to Kendrick getting a seriously big time Cruiserweight Title match against someone massive then I'm all for that. I'm all for any Kendrick at this stage actually and this is probably the highest I've been on one single guy getting a push and winning wrestling matches since god knows when. Maybe Bryan's big push but even then I was like this doesn't really matter because it's just happened out of good fortune and he's back down the card after. Match itself was super. Ibushi is brilliant and Kendrick was the perfect opponent to add the little things to Ibushi's big things. I loved the small touch of Kendrick trying to lure Ibushi to the outside and it not working the first time but then you see his plan when it does work the second time only for it to just totally not work at all. I can't believe that I've never seen anyone do that neckbreaker on the ring post spot before. It ruled. Burning Hammer spot was insane. Again I loved Kendrick going for something from that position earlier but you don't know exactly what and then he sets it up again and you're like jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus when you see what he set up. Kendrick had his spots that he wanted to get in and he was making damn sure he was getting them in even if he had to try a few times to actually get them in. And I mean that line in an awesome storytelling sense not the usual getting your shit in sense. I've seen plenty of shitty Indy guys use the Burning Hammer as a cheap pop to make themselves look good in front of 200 people (hello Dan Maff) but this was perfect. Mostly because it was so unexpected to see that spot used in a WWE ring but also because it's a fucking amazing move in the right context and it was so the right context for desperate Brian Kendrick to bust out a fucking Burning Hammer to beat Kota Ibushi. I've seen Ibushi's ropes assisted german before and it's never not a nutty spot. It's weird to say this but I really did think the match could have gone at least a few more minutes with more near finishes and really played up more Kendrick's reactions to busting out everything but not being able to put Ibushi away and then taking everything Ibushi had but refusing to die. If ever there was a match where going into slight overkill would have worked it was here so obviously they did what you should usually do and end it on the conservative side of the right time to end it. Tremendous everything. Who'da thought that Brian Kendrick would be everyone's new favourite wrestler. And if he isn't yours too then get the fuck outta here. *


----------



## Theszpress22 (Sep 2, 2016)

If you got NWA on Demand, *Harley Race vs Wahoo McDaniel* to be uploaded within the next 24 hours.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

seabs said:


> *Who'da thought that Brian Kendrick would be everyone's new favourite wrestler. And if he isn't yours too then get the fuck outta here. *


*YES.*

The only individual performances this year that had me emotionally invested at a level that was even close to this were Sexy Star in the No Mas match and Omega in the Naito match, but Kendrick just gave us absolutely perfect storytelling with not a single move going to waste, body language and facial expressions on point and just spectacular character work all around right from the beginning when he tried to take Ibushi to the outside so he could find sneakier ways to gain the upper hand. 

It sounds like I'm downplaying Ibushi in this match, but I'm really not. For as much as they showed favouritism towards Kota from the beginning, the tournament hasn't really been much about him; he's not really the main character, he's the obstacle everyone else has to surpass because he's that fuckin' good and he hits that damn hard. And in that role, he was a fulcral part of what were possibly the best matches of both Cedric Alexander's and Brian Kendrick's careers, by them masterfully adapting their characters (Cedric giving his all to prove himself on the biggest stage of his career so far, Brian desperately trying to come back into that stage) to facing the guy Ranallo and Danielson have been constantly referring to as the "favourite to win", "the best Cruiserweight in the world", "the hardest hitter in this tournament" and "the biggest star in the CWC".


----------



## Theszpress22 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Harley Race vs Wahoo McDaniel - Houston 2/10/78* 
The first time a match between these two has been released in its entirety to my knowledge. 

Its for the NWA Title, its 25 minutes long and it is awesome. Wahoo's chops and Harley's headbutts look brutal. Do yourself a favor and check it out on NWA on Demand.
****1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So Bayley beats Charlotte tonight for fun after beating Dana already, but Sasha comes back and fucks with us a little bit before saying she's getting her rematch at Clash of Champions. Alright.

Cesaro already beat Sheamus twice before this Best of 7 Series even started, but now Sheamus goes up 3-0 in this thing? We have to either watch the predictable outcome of Cesaro winning FOUR straight matches against him or Sheamus winning this series for no reason while Cesaro loses the big one yet again? Good lord, where is the creativity here?

That Old Day segment was absolutely awful. Stop having The Club act like goons and just let them beat people up. I still think they're winning the belts, but tonight took their momentum several steps back imo. Stupid.

Looks like I was correct in predicting Nia Jax facing Alicia Fox as her first real "test" on the main roster. What the fuck was that Strowman/Sin Cara match though? Cara CLEARLY got in the ring and had the count broken. :lol

Zayn won the big feud ender a little over a month ago, but to establish Owens as the new top dog he won an unnecessary match tonight that only makes Zayn's win feel meaningless since he's done nothing since then. I felt like it was too soon anyway, but whatevs. 

Are we abandoning Reigns/Rusev now? My only hope is that Rusev FINALLY fucking comes out next week to cost Roman the match, because Owens doesn't need to beating him already and he doesn't need to be losing either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Samoa Joe Vs William Regal from 2000, just released on wwe network as part of that hidden gems collection https://www.mediafire.com/?ndr8y3xj48udxao . Captcha doesn't seem to load if Adblocker is on though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Raw had some pretty good matches last night with Rollins/Jericho, Bayley/Charlotte and Owens/Zayn.

The talking shit, though, notably "The Old Day", and Sasha were fucking horrible. Especially The Old Day bullshit with Anderson and Gallows. That's one of the worst segments of the past 5 years.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Extremely late to the party but holy shit Ambrose/HHH from Roadblock is one of the best damn WWE matches this year.

Also caught up on some CWC action. Alexander/Ibushi is overrated, there I said it. It's a great match but nowhere near MOTY imo. I honestly preferred Kendrick/Mendoza over it. Kendrick has been the MVP of this tournament. I enjoyed every single one of his matches and it's nice to see how much he has developed. The guy is pushing is 40 and he may not be able to go at the pace he used to 10 years ago but age brings wisdom and Kendrick's heel psychology is a bit of fresh air amidst the fast-paced action.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

If someone finds that Rollins vs. Owens vs. Zayn match, hook a brotha up, please.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> If someone finds that Rollins vs. Owens vs. Zayn match, hook a brotha up, please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Putting that on a house show, meanwhile TV just sees Owens immediately defeat Zayn like nothing.

*sigh* (more on the logic side, b/c why just throw scenarios like these away?)

RAW rant above was fitting. WWE TV leaves you questioning damn near every thing they do b/c they're idiots and it's like "it shouldn't be THIS severe" on the ineptitude scale. Sasha Banks w/a mic during any of her supposed "babyface" run on RAW has been horrible. She's literally still a cunt anytime she flaps her gums. What is that? Soften up, you're a god damn face. Guess it is only exacerbated w/bad, bad segments like on Monday. Danielson didn't care for it, either. That's how you keep morale high.

At least Kendrick vs Ibushi is making the rounds. Match was the tops. As was Tozawa vs Metallik.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stop watching Raw Cody, and go watch THE LAST BATTLE OF ATLANTA.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That triple-threat was fucking awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Cal's World said:


> Stop watching Raw Cody, and go watch THE LAST BATTLE OF ATLANTA.


Back when Tommy Rich was still Wildfire, opposed to becoming lukewarm.

and my god BUZZ SAWYER. Well that's a hard sell I'm buying.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

While I had read about the match before: I had never seen Bret vs GOAT/Funker/Terry in ECW, which was fun and actually the first half of that was pretty darn psychologically sound albeit a very quirky acting ref throughout. That Worldwide Wrestling match January 20 1987 Flair/Windham broadway isn't very rare though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on this weeks CWC  http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-9/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cal I believe the semi finals and finals will both be on the live finale next week.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WATCHED:

*Cruiserweight Classic Day 1*

I love how it starts with a video package having HHH talk about a “new generation” getting a spotlight. Fast forward to today and the most talked about wrestler of the event is Brian Kendrick.

Gran Metalik v. Alejandro Saez
This was good! I like how Saez kind of tried to be a heel; can’t tell if he went into the match thinking he wanted to do that, or just saw that people were gravitating a bit toward Metalik/knew him as Dorada. Saez’s expressions were a little exaggerated but no, he was solid. And it was cool that the match felt different from your normal FIP kind of match, because Saez seemed perfectly aware (and accepting) of the fact that nobody in the crowd likely knew who he was. He kind of worked off of it, and took the dives and stiff kicks like a pro. Good finish too, and it very clearly looked like a desperation move from Metalik, so the fact it came so soon after the SSP on the floor was all right to me. I’ve now seen more Alejandro Saez matches than Kazuchika Okada matches.

Hoho Lun v. Ariya Daivari
I was drinking iced coffee while watching this.	

Clement Petiot v. Cedric Alexander
Alexander’s been one of those indie guys I’ve had on my “watch when you care to” list for a long long time, so it was really nice to see him here. No scratch that – it was amazing to see him here. Dude is fucking mesmerizing to watch. Huge, huge fan of how he sells every move. Got good head and body tilting on hard strikes, googly eyes for dazed looks, the squinty-faced back arching stuff, and does a fine “inside-out” clothesline sell. Fun to watch on offense too, and his fake comeback timing was really, really good. Petiot was good but I honestly could barely tell you how good because Alexander had the Andre the Giant quality to me, where he was the only one in the match I could really pay attention to. I did like Petiot’s hard hitting style and clear frustration when the match got hot, I will say though. Finish was too abrupt (Cedric’s finishing move is wild though), but overall a pretty awesome match. I think WWE would have to be insane to not see how well Cedric would fit their TV formula. Welp, time to go searching for his stuff.

LMAO @ Bryan changing the way he pronounced Petiot. He went from Pechu to P’toot.


Kota Ibushi v. Sean Maluta
I cannot remember ever watching Ibushi. I feel like I would have at some point unlike Okada or Naito, but I couldn’t tell you anything about him. I am an expert on Sean Maluta’s career, however. Anyway, I liked this enough. Ibushi’s a really enjoyable offensive worker. Very smooth yet rugged at the same time. His kicks are super lethal and they kind of loomed over a chunk of the match as something Maluta could be downed by. Even his fighting stance position is good; you could tell he was doing because he’s actually preparing to fight, instead of just putting his hands up because it looks cool. He sells like a crash test dummy being kicked down a flight of stairs though. And when gets hit in the face he acts like those robot fighting toys where the neck extends. Maluta was fine I guess. Did what he ‘needed to’, for lack of a better term. Ibushi gave him enough time to show his stuff, he did all right. Solid match, I’d watch some more Ibushi after this.


Overall thoughts: This was fun, I should catch up on the rest. Easy to talk about too since most of these guys are totally new to me so I don’t have to go through any “duh, Rey sells well here.”


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Punk/Gall - *

Punk definitely has some ring rust, he barely did anything in this match. Surprised that UFC would bury a former WWE Champion though, dumb booking imo.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT Takeover: Brooklyn II*

No Way Jose vs Austin Aries *1/2

Billie Kay vs Ember Moon *

Bobby Roode vs Andrade "Cien" Almas **

NXT Tag Team Championship
The Revival (Scott Dawson & Dash Wilder) (c) vs Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa ***1/4

NXT Women's Championship
Asuka (c) vs Bayley ***

NXT Championship
Samoa Joe (c) vs Shinsuke Nakamura ***1/2

Overall Rating: 6.75


*WWE SummerSlam 2016*

Kickoff: The Ascension, Breezango & The Vaudevillains vs The Usos, The Hype Bros & American Alpha *1/4

Kickoff: The Dudley Boyz vs Neville & Sami Zayn *1/2

Kickoff: Best of 7 Series, Match #1 
Sheamus vs Cesaro ***

Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs Chris Jericho & Kevin Owens **1/4

WWE Women's Championship
Sasha Banks (c) vs Charlotte **1/2

WWE Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs Apollo Crews *1/2

AJ Styles vs John Cena **3/4

WWE Tag Team Championship
New Day (Kofi Kingston & Xavier Woods) (c) vs The Club (Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson) 3/4*

WWE World Championship
Dean Ambrose (c) vs Dolph Ziggler *1/2

Naomi, Carmella & Becky Lynch vs Natalya, Alexa Bliss & Nikki Bella 1/4*

WWE Universal Championship
Seth Rollins vs Finn Bálor **1/2

Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton **

Overall Rating: 2.75


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Anyone watching the pre-show? Am I the only one who thought Corbin vs. Crews was much, much better than expected and also blew their NXT Takeover match last year out of the water?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Anyone watching the pre-show? Am I the only one who thought Corbin vs. Crews was much, much better than expected and also blew their NXT Takeover match last year out of the water?


Would've been watching if ya know, they would advertise a preshow match.  Only caught the end but the crowd seemed really into it.

EDIT: Wow, honestly loved the women's 6 pack challenge. Excellent pacing, everyone got their time to shine, and they continued the Nikki/Carmella story really nicely. Satisfying and decisive finish too. *** 1/2 no questions asked.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

On a dual-branded show, Ziggler/Miz would NOT be getting this time but they are (Orton's injury helps) and they're making the most of it. As I type this, this is a really good match, IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah I'm loving this PPV so far. Having a limited roster allows them to give all the matches appropriate amounts of time and it's working really well to this point.

Very interested to see what they do with this Orton situation though.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> On a dual-branded show, Ziggler/Miz would NOT be getting this time but they are (Orton's injury helps) and they're making the most of it. As I type this, this is a really good match, IMO.


You look at that match: Daniel Bryan references from Miz both verbally and in moveset telling part of the set-up story, really thick in false finishes that actually could've got it even protecting the superkick with the foot on the rope and the psychology telling the story of Dolph getting his leg worked effecting his offense. The valet factoring into the finish to create heat even down to Miz trying to crawl away after all the false finishes saying "screw this I cant put em away". A little annoyed at the amount of flashy offense Ziggler did when his knee was jacked up but seriously: that was one of the finest performances of the Miz I've seen and I think that was a great much all in all.

I'm in a good mood for some rasslin tonight Ill go ****. Might change on rewatch but I think on the whole that was a great match that told a multi-layered story. I dont recall giving a Miz match that high of a rating off my head albeit I was on hiatus from 2010-poked in at 2012 and didnt regularly return til 2013. :clap :clap


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah individually that was a tremendous performance from Miz. I'm really glad he retained.

No Holds Barred between Wyatt and Kane. Probably about as good of a replacement that you'll get for Orton to keep the crowd interested.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This has not been a bad show at all. My expectations dropped drastically when I heard the Orton news, but there hasn't been a bad match at all thus far.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> This has not been a bad show at all. My expectations dropped drastically when I heard the Orton news, but there hasn't been a bad match at all thus far.


No this genuinely been a pretty good continuation of Smackdown/little ppv here. Logical booking in relation to what was setup going in throughout the show and not a subpar match so far with the highlight thus far being Miz/Ziggler which I sang those praises a few posts ago. Even the Diva's six pack had fun elements and the usual tropes we see were cut in half to a decent showing. I've enjoyed myself. 

Hopefully Dean steps his game up in this one because a minimum 30 more minutes of the standard Dean we have been getting? Oof. AJ Might legitimately be the best ring wrestler on Earth though so that should happen.

edit: nice to see everyone getting time tonight too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

We're in the midst of a modern day classic here with Ambrose/Styles, guys. Been incredible thus far.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What a phenomenal match. 



Corbin/Crews: ***
Women's title: **3/4
Usos/Hype Bros: **1/2
Miz/Ziggler: ***3/4
Wyatt/Kane: **1/2
Red Rhino/Usos: **1/2
Styles/Ambrose: ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Two riding awesome matches tonight in Miz/Ziggler and Ambrose/Styles. Honestly, both matches are the best of all the men's this year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really good PPV top to bottom and I'm so mad I wasn't able to go to it. Fucking work...

Women's 6 Pack Challenge - *** 1/2
Usos vs. Hype Bros - ***
Miz vs. Ziggler - *** 1/2 (would've liked it more if I cared for Ziggler)
No Holds Barred: Wyatt vs. Kane - ** 3/4 (why did Kane win this? :lol)
Tag Titles: Usos vs. Slater & Rhyno - ** 3/4
WWE Title: Ambrose vs. Styles - **** 1/4

I already said it but man I had so much fun with the women's match. Naomi killed it out there aside form the one botch (which always happens when these women take extra risks). The stuff with Nikki & Carmella was great too. Loved the finish and all of the booking, honestly. Great moment for Becky.

Usos/Hype Bros was surprisingly solid even though I don't care about the Hype Bros at all. LOVE how the Usos won. Awesome. They just need new theme music now.

MIZ

For an impromptu match, Wyatt/Kane wasn't too shabby and the announce table bump was pretty sick. Why must Wyatt keep losing though? He better get a good rub from Orton down the line cause it's getting pretty ridiculous. Ziggler first and now Kane who we probably won't see again for a month or two.

I'm honestly REALLY surprised Slater & Rhyno won the belts. I thought for sure Usos were winning and Alpha would chase, but hey, nice moment for Slater and a good ending to his story. Match wasn't bad either with the long FIP segment but the pin after the gore seemed like it took an eternity. Rhyno seems to never do anything either.  Fully expecting Usos to win the belts on Smackdown before Alpha comes back, btw. Or maybe they run a 3 way at No Mercy?

Copy and paste for Ambrose/Styles, which was amazing: This was such a genuinely GREAT surprise on so many levels. Ambrose finally showed up to work and put on one of the better performances I've seen from him in quite some time. His selling of the calf was excellent and his unlazy fired up offense & facial expressions were great late in the match. The rebound clothesline actually made sense/didn't look stupid and his catapult of AJ into the ringpost was NASTY. Best part though? AJ's performance was even better! He basically ran circles around Dean and was on offense for most of the match, which is always the best way to go if you want an entertaining and diverse wrestling match (i.e. let the guy who puts forth the most effort run the match). The longer it went and the more it built, the better it got while NEVER tapping into the usual finisher kickout shit WWE treats us to these days. I thought this was MILES ahead of Styles/Cena too. I would've actually given it **** 1/2 and called it a damn near modern day classic, but it felt like a slight step down after seeing the finish they booked after a tremendous 30 minutes match. Still though, this was so fucking good and AJ STYLES IS WWE CHAMPION! :mark: :woo

No Mercy main event: Styles vs. Ambrose... No Holds Barred?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I hope Styles vs. Ambrose is a 60-minute Ironman match at No Mercy or something like that lol. THANK GOD Hell in a Cell is a Raw exclusive so they can't just throw those two into the Cell because of the month.

I've got Styles vs. Ambrose as the #8 match on my WWE-NXT MOTY list thus far. Nice to see Ambrose finally show up.


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Excellent show here, now I'm kinda disapointed I didn't go :lol

Becky Lynch v. Nikki Bella v. Carmella v. Alexa Bliss v. Natayla - *** 1/2

The Usos vs. Hype Bros - ***

The Miz v. Dolph Ziggler - **** . A top 3 match in Miz' career here, the storytelling was really good here and Ziggler showed up with another great face performance like he did in the match against AJ on SD.

Bray Wyatt vs. Kane - ** 3/4 

The Usos vs. Slater & Rhyno - ***

Dean Ambrose v. AJ Styles - **** 3/4 (my feelings to the match are in the MOTYC thread)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> I hope Styles vs. Ambrose is a 60-minute Ironman match at No Mercy


For a short period of time, I thought they might actually book a 60 minute draw.  I'd be cool with a 2 out of 3 falls match that went a similar amount of time or even longer than tonight. 

SMACKDOWN is so exciting right now. I love it.


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

Might have to go back and watch the Wyatt vs. Kane and Slater/Rhyno vs. Usos matches but here's my ratings for tonights show:

Becky Lynch vs. Natalya vs. Naomi vs. Alexa Bliss vs. Carmella vs. Nikki Bella: ****1/2*
The Usos vs. The Hype Bros: ***1/2*
Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz (c): ****1/4*
Bray Wyatt vs. Kane: ***1/4*
The Usos vs. Heath Slater and Rhyno: *****
AJ Styles vs. Dean Ambrose (c): *****1/2*

Overall: *8.25*

Fun as all hell show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Very happy to read that others enjoyed the women's 6 packer as much as I did. Smackdown's ladies are being used so much better and they have far more options to go with than RAW. It'll be a shame if Paige walks away from the company too, then they're fucked even more on the red brand.

Need to go back and watch Corbin/Crews sometime. Does anyone know what the hell happened to Kalisto? He hasn't been seen since Apollo won the IC Title #1 contendership on SD over a month ago.

Way too early No Mercy prediction time!

WWE Title 2 out of 3 Falls: Styles vs. Ambrose

Tag Team Title 3 Way: Slater & Rhyno vs. Usos vs. American Alpha

Women's Title: Becky vs. Natalya

Orton vs. Wyatt

IC Title: Miz vs. Kane (Kane won a pretty big match and the Bryan story can be involved)

Nikki vs. Carmella (maybe a crazy stip involved? Last Woman Standing?)

Corbin vs. Kalisto damn it!


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I attended Backlash on a whim and bought a ticket around 3 PM. I initially attended because I currently live less than three miles from the arena and I didn't want to miss out on potentially seeing AJ Styles' first WWE Championship victory. As it turned out, the show was much more than merely Styles/Ambrose, which was the only reason I attended in the first place. I don't know how the crowd came across live, but they erupted for both Styles and Slater's title victories, with Becky Lynch's pop not far behind it.

Crews/Corbin nearly killed the town.

Women's Six Pack Challenge: *****- A lot of people expected the final two to be Becky Lynch and Nikki Bella, and a sort of mini-stunned shock fell over the crowd for about two seconds when Carmella pinned Nikki. Came to be pleasantly surprised by the end of this.

Uso's/Hype-GEEKS~!: ***1/2* Couldn't bring myself to care for this match and the crowd was pretty quiet in my section sans for a few HYPEBROS~! decked out in Mojo Rawley gear. They left disappointed after the match.

Miz/Ziggler: ****3/4-*****- This got really great towards the end. Sans the Darren Young DUD at Battleground, Miz's reign has been tremendous.

Wyatt/Kane: ***1/2*- This was fine. In fact, a few people in my section tried to start a "This is Awesome" chant after the leg drop through the table, to which I wanted with "This is Fine~!" Crowd popped YUGE for Orton coming out and hitting the RKO, as well as for Wyatt mocking the Orton pose before leg-dropping Kane.

Slater-Rhyno/Uso's: *****- I thought Slater's FIP section went on a bit too long and the crowd was kind of quiet, but Rhyno hitting the gore really woke them up, and they erupted when the referee's hand smacked the canvas for the third time. The duo of Slater and Rhyno is extremely over and they'd be making a mistake to have them drop the belts to the Uso's on Tuesday.

Styles/Ambrose: *****1/2*- God this was tremendous. It probably sounded like a 50-50 split in terms of crowd reaction, although in the arena I would say it was more 65-35 in favor of Styles. The crowd was into this the entire twenty-five minutes and I personally loved that they didn't finisher spam like most WWE main events. Part of me feared that they were going to do a double countout/DQ after Ambrose leapt over the barricade and into the crowd, but WWE made the correct decision to pull the trigger on Styles here. He's perhaps the hottest wrestler in the world next to Kenny Omega and WWE rightfully struck whilst the iron was hot. 

Not sure if this aired, but Ambrose got a nice ovation from the crowd after the match and AJ exited. Glad to see that the boos towards him were more b/c he was facing AJ Styles and not because the crowd was genuinely turning on him. NXT is coming to the Richmond area next month, so I'm tempted to go.

Speaking of NXT, now I think is the time for guys like Nakamura, despite being champion, to be called up. AJ definitely needs opponents outside of Ambrose and Orton whilst Miz needs challengers as well. The only way for Miz's reign to end is for him to be completely squashed ala the Honky Tonk Man, and either Shinsuke Nakamura or Samoa Joe are perfect for the job. Perhaps Joe would be better slotted for it not just because of his size, but because Nakamura, due to his charisma and presence alone, should be a main eventer Day 1.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

It absolutely did not sound 50-50 haha. People love AJ but I was shocked at Ambrose's reaction anyways. I know many online turned on him for his work lately and I wonder if the crowd reaction will carry over as long as he works with Styles. 

Miz is simply awesome.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

*WWE Backlash 2016*

6 pack match - ***
Uses/Hype - **1/4
Miz/Ziggler - ****
Wyatt/Kane - **
Usos/Slater&Rhyno - **
Ambrose/Styles - ***3/4

Brand split has benefit Miz so much. One of the best performances from any individual in any WWE Match this year and I'm hardly his biggest fan.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

It just shows how good Smackdowns booking team have been when even when the card could have potentially given us one of the worst PPVs (especially when Orton pulled out) - it provided one with such entertainment and two excellent title matches. The Miz is shining and going from strength to strength since he cut that promo, really starting to make that IC title look important and matches like that will go along way.

Also think Ranallo on commentary has a lot to do with making a show that much better too. Splendid job last night.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Also super smart of creative to put Kane out there against Wyatt in a Ho Holds Barred match to hide Kane's weaknesses. In a straight-up wrestling match, it would have been awful, but the NHB stipulation made it a watchable match.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I only watched the main event from Backlash. That was a legit greeat match I thought, bar Ambrose brushing off the leg stuff too quickly, this was his best performance in what has to be two years? I can't remember, but he was actually good in this, which is better than he has been for ages. AJ Styles though, man, was he great. Up there with the single best performance from a guy this year I think. He just comes off as a star, whether it's the way he hypes himself up at the start of a big match, his constant shit talking or just the sequences and stuff he's still able to come up with. That spot where he slid back in the ring under the bottom rope and leg tripped Ambrose into the ropes as he was running was fucking amazing yet it was so simple and most of all it was an effective move. His stuff just looks incredible all the time and a lot of these indie guys doing cool shit need to look at Styles and see how he makes his stuff so slick but at the same time so impactful. I loved how the match was structured with Styles controlling almost the entire thing with the flurries from Ambrose towards the last third of the match. I liked Styles using that sick leg breaker thing to cut Ambrose off and then going after the leg. Loved Styles selling of Ambrose's stuff especially the suicide dive and the apron bump in to the ring post. The managed to get me invested and build drama without any finishers being kicked out of. I don't think even one finisher was hit before the Styles Clash. They kicked out of some big moves though and they did it enough to not look weak considering people kick out of finishers every match now. I actually loved the finish too. Probably the most fun I've had with a match this year I think, it isn't as good as Omega/Naito, but as far as big main event style matches go in 2016, I don't think you'll get that much better than this. A real surprise.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

Ambrose's offence is lacking, that was one of the few blights. Still a great match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SNOWFLAKES!

Backlash Preshow: Corbin vs. Crews - *** (Corbin is the man)

CWC Semi's: Sabre Jr. vs. Metalik - **** 1/2 (This is a such a fucking great match that was nearly perfect in execution)

CWC Semi's: Ibushi vs. Perkins - **** (The more popular match on the night for just about everyone else)

CWC Final - **** 1/4 (WHAT AN ATMOSPHERE)

Yeah so basically a lot of good wrestling goin on these days. Did anyone catch RAW? Wanna go back and watch Sheamus/Cesaro match 5 and the Owens/Reigns matches but how were they?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

2016 must be the weirdest year for wrestling in all the years I've (not) been watching. I battle to distinguish between fantasy booking and WWE's programming now. Did Austin101 fuck off, again, and get hired by Creative?



Spoiler: what the fuck



~WWE Champion: AJ Styles
~WWE Champion2: Kevin Owens
~Cruiserweight Champion: TJ Perkins
~The Usos are heels
~Prince Devitt was the inaugural WWE Universal champion
~Roman Reigns is losing
~Ambrose made someone else look like a geek for once (Ziggler)
~Heath Slater has a title
~Mascara Dorada main evented a WWE show
~The Last Battle of Atlanta was released



There's all that... then you watch Raw and see Cesaro/Sheamus in a pointless 7-match feud to waste time and realise Vince is still a senile old fuck.
~


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Does anyone have a best of list for WWE this year? Only match I've seen all year is Owens/Zayn from Battleground.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ryan193 said:


> Does anyone have a best of list for WWE this year? Only match I've seen all year is Owens/Zayn from Battleground.


Sure. These are the matches I have listed at ****+ thus far this year from the WWE.

- NXT Takeover: Dallas - Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura.
- Battleground - Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn.
- Summerslam - John Cena vs. AJ Styles
- CC 08/10/16 - Kota Ibushi vs. Cedric Alexander.
- Backlash - Dean Ambrose vs. AJ Styles.
- Extreme Rules - The Miz vs. Cesaro vs. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn.
- NXT Takeover: Brooklyn - The Revival vs. Gargano & Ciampa.
- NXT Takeover: Dallas - American Alpha vs. The Revival.
- MITB - AJ Styles vs. John Cena.
- MITB - Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns.
- CC 08/31/16 - Brian Kendrick vs. Kota Ibushi.
- NXT Takeover: The End - The Revival vs. American Alpha.
- SD 08/23/16 - AJ Styles vs. Dolph Ziggler.
- NXT 07/06/16 - The Revival vs. American Alpha.
- NXT Takeover: Brooklyn - Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Samoa Joe.
- Raw 03/07/16 - The New Day vs. Chris Jericho & AJ Styles.
- NXT Takeover: Brooklyn - Asuka vs. Bayley.
- Payback - Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn.
- Backlash - The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler.
- Battleground - Dean Ambrose vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins.
- MITB - Money in the Bank Ladder match.
- Extreme Rules - Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles.
- Royal Rumble - Dean Ambrose vs. Kevin Owens.
- Raw 03/21/16 - AJ Styles vs. Kevin Owens.
- Raw 09/12/16 - Kevin Owens vs. Roman Reigns.
- NXT Takeover: Dallas - Asuka vs. Bayley.
- Raw 07/25/16 - Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens vs. Rusev vs. Cesaro.
- CC 08/31/16 - Akira Tozawa vs. Gran Metalik.
- NXT Takeover: Dallas - Samoa Joe vs. Finn Balor.


As you can tell, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn are the MVPs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on the final episode of the CWC http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-cruiserweight-classic-episode-10-the-final/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ryan193 said:


> Does anyone have a best of list for WWE this year? Only match I've seen all year is Owens/Zayn from Battleground.


Everything I've rated ****+

The Royal Rumble Match ****
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Takeover: Dallas) *****
Finn Balor vs. Samoa Joe (NXT Takeover: Dallas) ****
IC Title Ladder Match (Wrestlemania 32) ****
Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon (Wrestlemania 32) ****
Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles (WWE Payback) ****
The Miz vs. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro (WWE Extreme Rules) ****
Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles (WWE Extreme Rules) **** 1/4
American Alpha vs. The Revival (NXT Takeover: The End) ****
Austin Aries vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NXT Takeover: The End) ****
2 out of 3 Falls: The Revival vs. American Alpha (NXT 7/6) ****
Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn (Battleground) **** 1/4
The Revival vs. Tommaso Ciampa & Johnny Gargano (NXT Takeover Brooklyn II) **** 1/4
CWC Quarter Final: Akira Tozawa vs. Gran Metalik ****
CWC Quarter Final: Kota Ibushi vs. Brian Kendrick ****
Dean Ambrose vs. AJ Styles (Backlash) **** 1/4
CWC Semi Final: Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Gran Metalik (CWC Live Finale) **** 1/2
CWC Semi Final: Kota Ibushi vs. TJ Perkins (CWC Live Finale) ****
CWC Finals: TJ Perkins vs. Gran Metalik (CWC Live Finale) **** 1/4

Plus several other ones at *** 3/4 that I won't list.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks guys.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

Why do you like Shane vs Taker so much?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dooze said:


> Why do you like Shane vs Taker so much?


I just loved it. I thought it had some great storytelling & visuals and felt like an all out war. More than just a slow paced one spot match imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, TJ Perkins won the CWC? Neither Ibushi or ZSR made the finals?

Fuck you, WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Wait, TJ Perkins won the CWC? Neither Ibushi or ZSR made the finals?
> 
> Fuck you, WWE.


It's because neither one of them signed a deal and the winner became the Cruiserweight Champion as well, which was smart for them not to announce until right before the final.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> It's because neither one of them signed a deal and the winner became the Cruiserweight Champion as well, which was smart for them not to announce until right before the final.


But they could've had at least one of them make the finals, and I'd much rather see Gran Metalik win out of the two who were in the finals anyway. Perkins kinda blows.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

I think TJ Perkins was the right choice.

1) As much as I love Gran Metalik, he really is "El rey de las cuerdas" (and he could be the latino star that WWE wanted all along after Rey Mysterio), TJP, with his life story, is a better choice for marketing and stuff

2) He speaks English and has much of a character than Gran Metalik, that's a fact

3) He is a key for WWE on the Philippines

BTW, Ratings:

_Gran Metalik vs Zack Sabre Jr_****3/4*: 2nd best ever ZSJ I've watched (after his bout against Hero at PWG last year)
_Kota Ibushi vs TJ Perkins_*****1/4*: Best match I've watched from TJ Perkins, just great. Can't wait to watch Kota Ibushi returning to NJPW soon to face Kenny Omega
_Final_******: A fight. Best way to describe it.

And one last thing: Fuck that guy who had the "Paul Heyman Guy" shirt, the guy with the glasses. That's a shitty Professional Wrestling fan. FUCK OFF.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guess I'm the only one who hated most of the matches from the final CWC ep .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm very interested to see how they present the cruiserweights on RAW. Hopefully they just let them go out and wrestle, but it'll probably have to be in shorter time frames because I don't think the crowd will react as well to them. They pretty much can't let any of them get on the mic though. Tozawa & Metalik don't speak English (or at least not much of it) and I don't want to hear any of Perkins, Dar, or Alexander cutting promos. 

Could see some of them working the Superstars taping and giving me a reason to watch that.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

If they want them to be a success, they're going to have to form some sort of character development for the cruiserweights and make us give a fuck about them. We've all seen these cruiserweight matches before. Kendrick has signed, right? You want to build that division around him. He is going to be the top heel of that division if so and he'll be the one to take the belt off Perkins, his mic work will really help that division and to build the right story. 

I don't have any confidence in the WWE to do anything but just throw the cruiserweights out there and tell them to put on a good match, which is boring. They can't even build a mid card with the talent they have on the roster ffs.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cesaro vs cruiserweights would be fantastic. I hope that was the plan behind him being drafted to Raw and being given a meaningless filler feud with Sheamus.

Dorado/Cesaro :sodone


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Erik. said:


> If they want them to be a success, they're going to have to form some sort of character development for the cruiserweights and make us give a fuck about them. We've all seen these cruiserweight matches before. Kendrick has signed, right? You want to build that division around him. He is going to be the top heel of that division if so and he'll be the one to take the belt off Perkins, his mic work will really help that division and to build the right story.
> 
> I don't have any confidence in the WWE to do anything but just throw the cruiserweights out there and tell them to put on a good match, which is boring. They can't even build a mid card with the talent they have on the roster ffs.


*WHAT? He's the most genuine babyface they've had since Bryan and you want him to be a heel? :una *


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

seabs said:


> *WHAT? He's the most genuine babyface they've had since Bryan and you want him to be a heel? :una *


I say that title already belongs to Sami Zayn.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Joe/Regal. 

#FunkyShirt


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Backlash. This was the first PPV where I read the results before I watched anything in absolutely forever. And I would have been quite ok with not catching any of the show at all if nothing got high praise. I don't get in from work until 6 every day now and if there's fitba on Monday night too then there's just like no time to watch these shows without actively making time to watch it. Ended up seeing most of this show in little parts over the course of the week though. The Raw PPVs should always be solid cards with maybe a couple of skippable ones but the SD shows look like inevitable death short of an influx of NXT talent to the roster.

The Womens match wasn't good. I wasn't going to bother with it but intrigue got the best of me to see what Bliss, Becky and Carmella were like. Nobody stood out though. Bliss would be a massive favourite of mine if she was better than average in the ring. Her character work is great. Carmella looked like someone who was playing pro wrestler and wasn't all that confident at playing it either. Naomi is just terrible. If she was half as athletic as she is she'd probably be twice as good because she constantly goes for stuff way above her talent level. The rest were just there. Miz/Ziggler was very good. I don't know if Mike went back and watched it after his post but he really should. I said around April on WF that Miz was one of the best WWE workers in 2015 and I said it half noshingly to wind them up and get the reaction I knew I'd get but now the same people are saying the same thing and I'm like mwahaahahaha. He's had a bunch of very good matches this year and was the better worker in most of them too. He was tremendous in this. Really great control segment working in the Bryan feud too. Ziggler was pretty much just a passenger though. I had to do a double take on Mike saying heel Usos weren't good. They're massively better than they were. Granted this is based off just the Slater/Rhyno match which was the definition of "just there" despite being a pretty relevant match but I thought they looked promising as heels despite a dead heat segment. Slater and Rhyno had a segment on the pre-show that I kinda caught by accident and Rhyno was amazing with his cold humour alongside Slater. Belts don't matter so they as well give the comedy team a feel good reign. AJ/Ambrose was very good. AJ was really good in it. I thought Ambrose looked half good here and had some good spots but this was clearly a very good match because of AJ. I feel comfortable saying that Miz and Reigns are both having better years than AJ. Zayn too. I thought this was the first great AJ match where he was the reason the match was great. I didn't hate the Cena matches and while AJ was obviously good in them it's hard to use them as WOTY evidence because of the structure of the matches and what they turn into. The Reigns matches were both great but I don't know about them great individual AJ performances. This definitely was though. Finish suffered a lot from the damage all his other big matches this year have done to the Styles Clash. Just buries Ambrose with it being the finish on him and a mid-match 2 count on everyone else this year.

Ok so I likely will have forgot a lot of the little things about the matches that I wanted to mention but here goes anyway. I thought the CWC Finale was amazing and all 3 tournament matches were MOTYCs for me. Both Semis were better than any other WWE match this year and the Final was better than everything other than Zayn/Owens. Main roster only of course. Sabre/Metalik was great. Maybe it was because I was expecting both Semi's to be sub 10 minute sprints but this blew my expectations for it out the water. I would have had a lot more to say about it had I made this post not 3 days after I watched it. Zack's selling is what it is but he's been real good when he's really brought the intensity in this tournament. Metalik feels much improved then when I saw him in New Japan which granted is like 3 years ago now so you would expect it. He isn't ultra smooth and fluffs at least a couple of spots every match but he also hasn't had this run of good-great matches by coincidence. That post match interview was quite something. WWE seems to be cloning interviewers now. They have this new one in NXT called Cathy or something whose cute and then they rolled out 3 other girls on this show who all looked just like her. Or maybe it was the same woman in 3 different outfits and I'm an idiot. Or maybe this woman is actually Cathy and I'm a massive idiot rather than just a regular one. Although now I think about it 2 of them were in the ring at the same time here. But then again Bray Wyatt can make holograms appear and mess with kid's voices and Undertaker can be controlled by an Urn so is having the same person appear simultaneously in two spots at the same time out of the question? Pretty sure it isn't. Although it could be. Anyway my point is that the translator was marvellous with her one way only translations. Biggest disappointment on the show wasn't an extra Noam Dar appearance but Metalik doing his first response with "MEHICO MEHICO" and the translator then not also yelling "MEHICO MEHICO".

TJP/Ibushi I thought was excellent and might even be my MOTY now. It's madly infuriating that the same company can protect finishes so perfectly in one presentation and then so amateurishly in another. There's an optimum reaction that you want your viewers to have when watching your product and I was pretty much that fan for this match. I was enjoying the match at the start and appreciated all the little touches and then as the match went on I got more and more into it as the match built more and more and then when they hit their final stretch I was sat up and completely sucked in to what they were doing. The amount of times wrestling matches really have me on the edge of my seat are kinda depressingly so few and far between so when I say this match had me sat up and jumping around it's really high praise. They've built Ibushi up as the top dog so much that he almost had to lose but him losing here in the Semis to TJ really did feel like the massive upset it was presented as. The powerbomb kickout was perfection. They got TJ's kneebar over so well over the course of this show. Tons of little touches that ruled too. I LOVED TJ not dabbing after the headscissors on this show. You get things like that from time to time on the main roster shows but then it's up to you to pick them up yourself and then wonder how intentional they were because the commentators don't mention them but here Bryan freakin Danielson is a commentator and does his fucking job. I liked Bryan a lot on this show and loved how he essentially took the tag match off to save his voice for the Final. Mauro is Mauro. He's better calling the big matches though. The smarky references are what they are. There was one point I think in the Metalik match where he was going for one of his long winded references about Liger and the SSP and Bryan just completely cuts him off mid sentence with "LOOK AT THAT KICK".

The tag match was there. It was manic enough to work in that role. I would have just took all the eliminated guys you had there and done a wacky 10 minute multi man sprint. I don't like either Ciampa or Gargano yet but they're presenting them well as a babyface team that you at least like and feel sympathy for when they lose. Ciampa's promo on the show was good. I don't get the Cedric Alexnader hype yet. I didn't think it was possible to dislike Noam Dar anymore but that chant managed it. If you ever wanted to explain to someone why fans chanting during your matches doesn't in itself mean that they're into you then Dar is your case study. That chant is the definition of we want to like you but you also bore us and we're just entertaining ourselves.

Regal had this awesome interview before the Final that felt so real in a if this was legit and you asked him for analysis he'd say just that way. They clearly went for a heavily UFC influenced presentation for this and at times I liked it and at times I didn't. The pre-match hype for the Finals was great. They should do more of that, more post match interviews, more time for fans to breathe between matches without resorting to another match that is just filler and does more harm than good. The post match hand raise is still a bit wack to me but it's basically a sell the joy of victory and the agony of defeat moment so I've come around to it for that reason. I've been meaning to mention this all the show but the refs telling the wrestlers to make sure they protect themselves is the strangest thing ever given they're about to engage in a pro wrestling fight which is the very definition of not protecting yourselves at all times. And they shout it during the matches too and it's so odd shouting protect yourself while the other guy is chopping him or they're trading elbows. Corey's breaking out of the matrix line was marvellous. I did roll my eyes at Hunter's cameo when the match was all set to start and then Hunter's music blares out like he's about to do a run in and be added to the match. I gave it a pass when it served a purpose though and the Title addition was a sweet touch with great timing right before the match started. I bet Hunter had a massive boner of a smile on his face as he walked to the back with the fans chanting Thank You Hunter at him. There was an interview with Justin Roberts last week on PWTorch and he talks about Hunter being massively insecure and needing constant praise and attention and it's like yep, he does a real good job at hiding it.

The Final was the weaker of the 3 main matches but was also great. This gets taken for granted, I suppose because they're viewed as cosplaying a sport rather than actually playing one but the conditioning for these 2 to go out there and have this match in the hour after they both went out and had a 15 odd minute hold nothing back MOTYC is amazing. That rana over the top rope from Metalik was out of this world bonkers and I totally lost my shit over that. TJ winning was a big upset to me. Once he beat Ibushi I sorta figured TJ gets the Ibushi rub and Metalik gets the winners rub. It's also kinda weird that both ibushi and Sabre seemingly had the world ready to be given to them in a Cruiserweight context and turned it down. I liked TJ more and more as the show went on which is a testament to it. I've always liked TJ despite him always seeming to be stuck at a he has good ***-***/12 matches level but he definitely vanquished that on this show. His post match promo was cool too. I don't expect him to be at the forefront of the CW division for long on Raw given he wasn't brought in to be in that role and they have Neville already on Raw who I expect them to put more stock in as well as Aries and Itami I assume to come into the division from NXT and I also expect them to put more stock into Metalik on the main roster than TJ.

Overall this show was great and I'm glad that I sat through all of it rather than cherry picking matches and watched it all unspoiled. The first round of matches were mostly just ok but you were paid off in the finale for watching them. Main nitpick with the show would be them spending too much time just on the matches and not enough telling the stories of the wrestlers. It was more mentioning them during the matches rather than really telling them and they always felt secondary to "having good matches". Very little promo time to tell what were some good stories with guys like Kendrick, Cedric and TJ. Also would have liked to have seen them tell more stories with the wrestling styles too. It never felt like the story of one style besting another style got told or the story of styles clashes within matches. I don't think this show ended up being massively popular and certainly didn't seem to get even all the viewers NXT has but I think it's a good resource for WWE to have and I'd be all for them doing this format again with a different division. I don't know if there's enough Women talent they can get in because if you do it again you have to match the standard that CWC has set but something like taking the Dusty Tag Classic and making it a CWC like series. They should definitely give it another run next year too. There's an endless supply of outside guys they can bring in either with a view to sign or just as CWC exclusive guys. Bring someone like Liger in just for the tournament. And then you can also have guys from this year run again next year with TJ coming in from Raw wanting to defend his win, Metalik returning to avenge his loss, even someone like Neville going down to put the importance of the tournament over.*


----------



## CreepinUp (Sep 13, 2016)

What does everyone think of WM 23 John Cena vs HBK? I read HBK was pissed at Cena for forgetting to sell the leg that HBK forgot to sell. 

****1/4 a match that could of been ****1/2 - 5* easily.


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

CreepinUp said:


> What does everyone think of WM 23 John Cena vs HBK? I read HBK was pissed at Cena for forgetting to sell the leg that HBK forgot to sell.
> 
> ****1/4 a match that could of been ****1/2 - 5* easily.


I haven't watched it in a long while but from what I remember it was a great match. I'd give it ****1/4 based on memory. I need to rewatch WrestleMania 23.


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

I just watched the first ROH show from 2002: The Era of Honor Begins. Very solid first show for the company. Nothing blow away aside from the main event (Dragon vs. Low Ki vs. Christopher Daniels) but had a few good undercard matches and featured Eddie Guerrero a couple months before he made his return to WWE. But what an amazing main event it was. I believe Dragon was only 20 at the time and Low Ki was only 22. Damn.










ROH The Era of Honor Begins:

The Christopher Street Connection vs. Da Hit Squad: *N/A*
Jay Briscoe vs. The Amazing Red: ****1/4*
Xavier vs. Scoot Andrews: ***1/2*
The Boogie Knights vs. The Natural Born Sinners: ****
Chris Divine vs. Quiet Storm vs. Brian XL vs. Jose Maximo vs. Joel Maximo vs. The Amazing Red: *****
Prince Nana vs. The Towel Boy: *N/A*
Michael Shane and Oz vs. Spanky and Ikaika Loa: ***1/2*
Super Crazy vs. Eddy Guerrero: ****1/4*
The American Dragon vs. Low Ki vs. Christopher Daniels: *****1/2*

Overall: *7.75*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so i'm certain i'm watching this tonight

superbrawl 1993


> Tag Team Match
> Erik Watts & Marcus Alexander Bagwell vs. Flyin' Brian & Steve Austin
> Singles Match (Recommended, Meltzer: ***3/4, CAGEMATCH users: 7.31)
> 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Chris Benoit
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@YestleMania try one of these two threads for the ROH talk:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/575679-roh-sbg-discussion-thread.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1903329-official-indy-dvd-discussion-thread.html


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Heel Usos are awesome.


I remember liking Taker vs. Batista from WM23 more than HBK/Cena, but I haven't watched either match since they happened.


----------



## B316 (Feb 26, 2016)

I've always thought Cena vs HBK at Mania 23 was one of the most underrated Mania matches in history, I think it's superior to both Batista vs Undertaker and the Cena vs HBK rematch from Raw.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The "Hidden Gems" section on the network has some really cool looking matches. I'm not a big fan of classic wrestling but even I have heard of the "Last Battle of Atlanta." I might end up giving that a watch tonight, if not tonight very soon. 

On a different note I bought the Unreleased Attitude Era Blu-Ray and I'm not impressed. The first match was really cool and I was hoping that's what everything would be like. It was 1 camera, at ringside, filming Austin and Hart. It was really cool to watch. But after that the matches just aren't that interesting and I realized that the faces are going to win every single match...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fuck, the introduction of the Cruiserweights on Raw last night was fucking atrocious. It was a good match, but from the placement on the show to Foley being a fucking geek in the ring introducing them it was horrible.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

God, Usos vs. American Alpha was so fucking good on Smackdown. From Gable's selling of the knee, to Jordan not tagging him in because of the knee and going for it on his own to protect Gable and then the finish and eating a double superkick and splash. I can't wait until these guys get 15-20 minutes on PPV and fucking tear the house down.

And then that backstage segment with Usos/Slater/Rhyno. God, heel Usos are fucking AWESOME.

EDIT: Miz/Ziggler II do it again. God damn.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Usos/AA :mark:


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

How's Triple H vs Cena from NOC 08?

Better than their WM22 match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dooze said:


> How's Triple H vs Cena from NOC 08?
> 
> Better than their WM22 match?


God no. Its awful and boring as FUCK.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

What about Undertaker vs Big Show Last Man Standing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dooze said:


> What about Undertaker vs Big Show Last Man Standing?


Fantastic! But I think I just prefer their No Mercy match to it.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Big Show was on fire that year. I remember loving one match against Undertaker. How many times did they fight on PPV that year?

Just watched Roman/Owens from RAW 12/09. The Crowd were on fire.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Daniel97 said:


> Big Show was on fire that year. I remember loving one match against Undertaker. How many times did they fight on PPV that year?


3 times.

No Mercy - Incredible
Cyber Sunday Last Man Standing - Great
Survivor Series Casket Match - Urgh

Then at the 09 RR they went at it multiple times and were kind of the ongoing angle throughout, which lead to a cage match on SD.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

GUYS! 20 years ago today Michaels/Mankind took place :drose


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mind Games :mark:

One of the GOAT WWF matches.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Cleavage said:


> GUYS! 20 years ago today Michaels/Mankind took place :drose


*Stop stealing Vic's ginmick!*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's not a very good thief, he didn't even embed a video of the match in his post :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm still to watch their un-televised match from IYH: It's Time. Obviously i don't expect it to be on the same level tho.


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

I really like DX vs Rated RKO and Cena vs Umaga from NYR 07, anyone else fond of them?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Been catching up on Raw from the past month. Mostly just wanted to post something regarding the Cruiserweights though. I don’t have any hopes for anything that they do on the main roster anymore but it’s still amazing how the same company can present the same thing so right on one platform (CWC) and then just so horribly on another (Raw/SD). Watched the 4 way thing on Raw and I could not believe that TJ didn’t even make it onto the show. They actually managed to surpass presenting the Champ in negative terms and just didn’t present him at all! Like surely this is elementary stuff that you debut a new division after spending 10 weeks to crown its first Champion and on the debut week you showcase the Champion above everyone else. 

Before I would have been pissed at them shooting Kendrick straight into a Title shot after the CWC but at this point I’m just appreciative of getting a Kendrick match on the PPV. And who knows, maybe losing will actually add to his story. That said though I’m pretty sceptical about them even telling the same story he told so perfectly on the CWC because on Raw he just wrestled as a heel which was the obvious move after he got over as the most genuine babyface since Bryan and without Kendrick’s just ok. But I guess we’ll wait and see. Kendrick/TJ should be good but I doubt we got close to really any of Kendrick’s performances in the CWC.

It's also amazing how sticking these guys into the Raw presentation immediately sucks them dry of any cool factor. Or maybe more so the presentation rather than them themselves. Foley came out and basically fuck you little guys I’m knocking you 100m back in the 200m race good luck catching up with us other guys. And then when he got his cue cards out and started introducing them like some celebrity brought in from out of town to judge the local beauty pageant. Honestly that was up there with some of Hunter’s worst burials in an authority role. And then Cole starts reading scripted bios for the guys as they walk out and it’s like “coooooooooool”. In ways I feel bad for Cole because he obviously works hard but he has no credibility and a negative coolness rating which means regardless of anything else he’s forever destined to be terrible at the job they have him doing. It’s like if Bubz was the ring announcer. He can try his damn hardest to be the best god damn ring announcer possible but by the fact that it would take him the entire length of any match to get into the ring he’s a total DUD at being a ring announcer by his very nature. And that’s Cole. Saxton is Saxton. At one point he said watching the Cruisers was like watching the Power Rangers do battle. “Cooooooooooool”. Graves doesn’t sound as good on Raw because he’s drowned out by two goons and he often feels as though he’s reading overly scripted lines fed to him. And speaking of that, Mick Foley is not very good at all at delivering overly scripted lines and I feel pretty safe betting a good chunk of what I own on Mick never using half of them adjectives he used in the promo off camera. For some reason Rich Swann didn’t get an inset promo at all but they gave non English speaking Gran Metalik one. 

The match itself was ok but it was just spots and not a good spotfest because if you’re doing this then give it half the time and work at twice the pace. Structuring was really weird because it felt more like Swann vs Alexander with constant run ins by Metalik and Kendrick than an actual 4 way match. They renamed Kendrick’s Bully Choke to the Captain’s Hook too and it really sums up the difference between Network WWE and TV WWE. 

Crowd was dead but it’s like of course they were, its 3 guys they’ve never heard of before and the Kendrick guy who had a tag run with Paul London 10 YEARS AGO and a failed singles push in 2009. So another new guy to a lot of the audience. And this audience were not watching the CWC. It’s weird how WWE are so worried about putting certain segments on TV that will be channel turners and then put 4 unknown guys on TV for a 20 minute segment in the 3rd hour and are ok with that. 

This is a bit of a tangent but imo the Network is a massive reason for the ratings decline and it’s because they’ve debuted a whole stack of names on Raw in the past couple of years that are complete unknowns to people without the Network. And they don’t debut any of these guys as total unknowns either so what must the casual audience (that Raw has lost) think when they debut? I don’t know who you are but you’re being presented to me as though I do know who you are so now I the viewer am out of the loop. And when you’re out of the loop on something you have two options. Either get in the loop or remove your interest from the loop. And getting in the loop is hard. They debut Sami Zayn for instance in this feud with Kevin Owens and it’s awesome for all of us who have followed their story for the past decade but think about how it comes across to those who haven’t and only watch Raw and Smackdown for their wrestling consumption (which until a few years ago represented millions and millions of WWE’s viewers). To them this total unknown has come in and is clearly continuing a very heated rivalry with another wrestler who himself, was only introduced to them less than a year ago and they must feel completely out of the loop. So they have to do their research and consume what is essentially a decade’s worth of their careers (or even just their NXT history which is still an uphill task for someone who only devotes 5 hours of their weekly viewing time to wrestling) in order to really understand why they’re fighting. Or the other option which is just throw their hands up and give in and admit that they don’t fully understand what’s going on in their show and when that happens you just turn to something else. And there’s examples of that all over the show. 

Bayley just debuted and straight away she’s presented as one of the top names in the division and trading wins with the Champion. So if you’re watching her for the first time then you miss out on nearly everything that has made Bayley arguably the most likeable wrestler they have. Her whole story is about her starting out at the very bottom, constantly being bullied around by heels and ultimately losing to them until one night in Brooklyn she changed the record and finally won the big match. They killed that story dead on Raw within a month by having her beat Charlotte straight away. So to the viewers who don’t have the Network, Bayley’s on par with Sasha and Charlotte and your reason to get behind her is because she’s got a likeable personality, which is only a fraction of why she became so popular in NXT. You lose the journey if you’re not watching NXT on the Network. 

So that went off at an unintentional tangent there but to bring it back, that problem arises again with the Cruiserweights and when people feel out of the loop they just go. They really should have waited a week until after Clash to debut them because this is the definition of shoehorning something in because you have a quote to meet. A 6 day build to a match where the non Network audience hasn’t even seen the Champion before is not good booking. Wait until after the PPV and start phasing them in gradually rather than blowing your load in one big go. And most importantly, integrate them with the existing roster. You have Neville there who is kind of established to the non Network audience at least as a recognisable figure. Granted he’s flirting with “just a guy” territory but it’s better than “who is this guy” territory. Put him there as the standard bearer for the new guys. Have Neville vs Rich Swann as your introduction to Swann. Move Kallisto to Raw and have Kallisto vs Metalik as your introduction to him. At least then it’s not totally unknown territory to your non Network audience. 

Another major issue that I see forthcoming that the presentation on Raw highlighted was the Cruiserweight Division is essentially for smaller guys what the Womens Division is for Women. It’s their own division where they work exclusively with one another. Key word being exclusively. And on one hand that may work out well as they won’t have to be enhancement talent for the Roman Reigns and Kevin Owens’ of the world but it also means they have a very visible glass ceiling. They’re only working with each other and we already know that if they want a smaller guy like Finn Balor at the top of the card, he just won’t be presented as a Cruiserweight. Now it’s only a prediction and time will tell but the fact that they gave them the purple theme during their segment rather than the red Raw one is pretty telling to me. 

That turned into a total nonsense ramble that I did not intend at all. Other stuff. That Sasha promo was absolutely horrible. Trying (very poorly) to recreate Bryan’s retirement promo and then turning around and going hahahahaha hope you didn’t get too invested in that because I LIED = babyface promo in 2016 it seems. The 4 way where Owens won the Title was a really good match up until Hunter came in and we had the whole the Champion gets chosen by the McMahon’s bullshit yet again. Reigns/Owens last week was also very good and on the down low Reigns must be having one of the best individual years purely in amassing star ratings. Miz/Ziggler had another really good match this week on Smackdown. Usos/Alpha was a really well worked match and I like how they clearly realise that Alpha/Usos is literally all they have with that tag division and they’re doing a good job of making that a real long program with them having matches that aren’t the real match yet with the leg injury angle. 

Was looking at the card for Clash tonight just and it’s a super strong card on the quiet and a pretty damning knock on the balance of the brand split when you compare it to the card for Backlash. Really every match on the main card should be a ***+ outing and quite a few of them have the potential to be far above that. Raw is Raw though and getting people excited about the matches outside of “this should be a good match” is a whole other equation. The Womens match for instance should be really good but as a program it’s super cold. Speaking of I caught the Sasha “retirement” promo and it’s totally indefensible that was allowed to make its way all the way onto the air. I mean a babyface faking retiring and playing with the emotions of her fans like is just really bad writing for starters but then like just over 6 months on from the very real and very heartbreaking Danielson retirement it’s super insensitive too. And I admit that I’m not in a position to really grasp how over acts are on a week to week basis but Sasha feels stone cold right now and a promo like that (along with Bayley in the mix now) doesn’t help one bit. That was the sort of bad booking that is hard to look past as just Vince gonna Vince and would genuinely annoy you if you cared enough about the product. TJ/Kendrick should be good but I’m not sure how you can do Kendrick’s story justice at this stage. It should play into the story as it goes on assuming they’re smart to follow through from the CWC with it and not just make Kendrick a heel because he’s the least flippy guy and they need some heels in the mix. Zayn/Jericho should be a fun barometer or just how bad in ring Jericho is these days. The Cesaro/Sheamus matches have pretty much stayed at a *** level which is fine but not really for a 7 match series. Not really got hopes for New Day/Club. Gallows and Anderson haven’t done anything I’ve really liked so far. Jax/Fox on the pre-show I bet I like a ton. There was a skit on Raw where Fox turned around to grab something and threw it at Nia without looking and it hit right on the nose and she had the best oh shit what did I just do face ever for like 3 seconds before switching back on to continue acting the scene out. Reigns/Rusev could be really great so watch the crowd ruin it. Owens/Rollins will be interesting to see babyface Rollins (who fucking ruled in FCW forever ago) and even though I’m not big on Owens in WWE Rollins feels like a good guy to pair him with for one of his better matches. 
*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I feel like I may be completely insane for thinking Rusev/Roman can be the MOTN tonight. 

I have a feeling Owens/Rollins is an overbooked mess, New Day/Club has no heat and has long been ruined, Sheamus/Cesaro has been too long at this point, still good but too long, Zayn/Jericho can also be really good. 

I feel like if Reigns/Rusev go 10-15 mins instead of the 25 they did on Raw last month they can have the MOTN. If Rollins/Owens isn't overbooked to hell it'll probably be them.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My interest level in tonight's PPV is definitely the lowest it's been for any of them this year. I just feel like there's no momentum going into... really anything on the card.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That was a fun tag title match but I am so fucking sick of The New Day. Anderson & Gallows may as well go back to Japan. They've been horrible since the split from AJ.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> That was a fun tag title match but I am so fucking sick of The New Day. Anderson & Gallows may as well go back to Japan. They've been horrible since the split from AJ.


Not much of a story/tag psychology but for the time they got: some fun counters in there. These two haven't shown near the nice chemistry Usos and Harper/Rowan had in their weekly series of good matches apexing in that really nice 2/3 match: but getting to my point: G&A not getting the tag belts once in all their tries on the New Day might have a similar negative effect as Harper&Rowan had at a larger extent. Not a good move imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two matches in. My thoughts:

- Jesus Christ will someone beat the New Day please? Your tag teams have no credibility because of this booking.

- I'm sick of kneebars.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cruiserweights continue to feel like everyone else on the roster except for purple ropes. It didn't take long for the novelty to wear off after the CWC. It was a good match, but nothing special or great imo.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That shitty ass horrific finish legit knocked 1/4* - 1/2* off that match. Fucking FANTASTIC match, HORRIFIC, and I can't stress HORRIFIC enough, horrific ending.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

That was one of the best matches all year in WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some atrocious booking already on this PPV.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I wanna go backstage right now and slap the *shit* out of every one of these stupid motherfuckers who do completely unnecessary suicide dives just to fuck them up and land on their stupid fucking heads.

We already have Big E and Sasha attempting to kill themselves in every piece of shit match they're in, from PPV's down to fucking Main Event or Superstars or whatever the fuck, Cesaro, I sure as hell don't wanna add you to the list of "people who I think are going to die in every match they're in". Fucking behave, work the leg or some shit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Aaaaaaand the booking strikes again. Good match between Jericho & Zayn, but god these decisions of who goes over are so puzzling.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The women had a good, but not great match, imo. I feel like that's the theme of the night. Maybe I'm being too critical. Sheamus/Cesaro is the only match that stands out for me, and unfortunately that had a crappy, crappy ending.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Women's match was mess imo. Way too much going on.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Roman/Rusev was a pretty damn good match, imo. I enjoyed it.

And look @ the fans popping for Roman winning the U.S. Title. That's the way his push SHOULD have started, imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rusev/Roman was fine I guess, but I just didn't buy any of it. Never thought Roman was losing and having Rusev hit three separate superkicks for a 2 count was a bit ridiculous. Whatevs. 

Rollins about to lose his 3rd title match in a row. :lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

This match goes to showcase several things that imo. is wrong with the typical (of course not all by any means) big modern WWE match ala sensible psychology many times here going out the window but Rollins' selling in this match has been largely P-R-I-S-T-I-N-E


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I knew this match was going to be an overbooked mess. fpalm


Backlash wins the PPV war for this month quite easily, imo.


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

Well, the in ring stuff for the show was fine but it was the booking that was shit tonight. No match was a standout because of it. Sheamus/Cesaro and Rollins/Owens could have been great but the overbooking/endings brought them down. A lot of disappointments tonight. The build up was weak but I was hoping the in ring stuff would make up for that. Ratings:

The New Day (c) vs. Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson: ***1/4*
Brian Kendrick vs. T.J. Perkins (c): *****
Sheamus vs. Cesaro: ****1/4*
Sami Zayn vs. Chris Jericho: ****1/4*
Bayley vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte (c): ****1/4*
Rusev (c) vs. Roman Reigns: ***3/4*
Seth Rollins vs. Kevin Owens (c): ****1/4*

Overall: *6.25*


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I knew this match was going to be an overbooked mess. fpalm
> 
> 
> Backlash wins the PPV war for this month quite easily, imo.


No doubt Backlash vs this PPV ends up quite lopsided. Backlash was quite enjoyable, nice booking and ring-wise solid all night with imo. one (Miz/Ziggs) great and two very good (Miz/Ziggs and the ME) matches with nothing below average imo. Tonight was very paint by the numbers, ho hum and some questionable booking or at least ways to go about things/lack of talent protection in some cases. 

Not horrible WM 32 levels, but at best an average ppv at worst subpar imo.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

The endings to some matches lacked a little. However I can't remember a WWE show that had good/very good matches the entire way through for a long time. Possibly the best PPV of the year for me.

New Day/Club - **1/2
Perkins/Kendrick - ***
Cesaro/Sheamus - ****
Zayn/Jericho - ***1/4
Womens Triple Threat - ***1/2
Roman/Rusev - ***1/4
Rollins/Owens - ***1/4

People who need turns, title changes & shocking moments may not like this PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I missed a huge chunk of Sheamus/Cesaro because my internet cut out so Rollins/Owens was definitely my MOTN. Even though the crowd was pretty much dead I really enjoyed the work from both guys. It personally helped me see Owens as a top heel and take Rollins seriously as a newfound babyface. Smart idea for Owens to work the knee and then fucking DESTROY the ribs with that gutbuster. I thought it was nearing Styles/Ambrose level but then Jericho came out and the overbooking ensued. *** 3/4 for the whole thing because the wrestling was superb but the last few minutes were all over the place. Loved the 'Suck It' moments and the table spot though.

I didn't really like the way they got to the finish but I will say it made me REALLY wanna see them go at inside Hell in a Cell next month and for Rollins to get the win.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

In 2016, The Miz and Dolph Ziggler had a better match than Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens.

RATINGZZ

Jax/Fox: *1/2
New Day/Club: **3/4
Perkins/Kendrick: ***1/4
Cesaro/Sheamus: **** (would have been ****1/2 with a proper finish)
Jericho/Zayn: ***
Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte: ***
Reigns/Rusev: ***1/4
Rollins/Owens: **3/4

Solid, but nothing great aside from one match either whereas Smackdown had two ****+ matches on Backlash.

Rollins/Owens wasn't even a bad match, it's just two supremely talented workers putting on an extremely underwhelming match bogged down with overbooking which I KNEW was going to ****ing happen but not destroy the match quality or potential match quality so bad. They never even kicked it into the next gear. It was like a super, long-form match with a slow build to an amazing climatic ending that never happened.


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

The New Day (c) vs. Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson - **1/2

Brian Kendrick vs. T.J. Perkins (c) - ** 1/2

Sheamus vs. Cesaro - ***1/2

Sami Zayn vs. Chris Jericho - ***

Bayley vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte (c) - ***1/4

Rusev (c) vs. Roman Reigns - **3/4

Seth Rollins vs. Kevin Owens (c) - ***1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, one month down and Smackdown is destroying RAW imo. Let's see what October holds, although I'm VERY excited for Styles/Ambrose II next week and then the 3 way at No Mercy. Not to mention HEEL USOS ready to get the tag belts while Alpha chases.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

No Mercy should be pretty sick.

Ambrose/Styles/Cena is a legit Wrestlemania-caliber main event, heel Usos are fucking AWESOME, Miz/Ziggler will probably continue their awesome series (I'm hoping for Last Man Standing), Wyatt/Orton should be a good one, Becky/Bliss, Nikki/Carmella in what appears to be a No DQ build and I guess Corbin/Swagger which shouldn't be okay. 

Smackdown is killing it. I'm super close to solely watching Smackdown and keeping up with Raw by watching the YouTube videos of stuff I want and checking out any good matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW is going up against Monday Night Football and the Presidential Debate tomorrow night. It may just hit another all time low in this era.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've seen some speculating that Cesaro/Sheamus may come out of this as a tag team and go after the tag titles. I'd be down for that, tbh.

All-in-all though, this show did absolutely nothing to make me want to tune in tomorrow night.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> I've seen some speculating that Cesaro/Sheamus may come out of this as a tag team and go after the tag titles. I'd be down for that, tbh.


And New Day would end up going over them on day number 478 of their never ending title reign. :lol

Really though, I don't think anyone wants to see that. Cesaro needs to fucking BREAK OUT and they keep holding him back.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> And New Day would end up going over them on day number 478 of their never ending title reign. :lol
> 
> Really though, I don't think anyone wants to see that. Cesaro needs to fucking BREAK OUT and they keep holding him back.


I've long accepted the fact that this company sees Cesaro as nothing more than a good hand.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How great is this PPV poster?


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

People are giving CoC more praise than I thought they would. Maybe I need to rewatch it, I think some of the booking put me in a weird mood for the show.

Or I guess maybe it's just a difference of opinion and that's fine as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

YestleMania said:


> People are giving NoC more praise than I thought they would. Maybe I need to rewatch it, *I think some of the booking put me in a weird mood for the show.*
> 
> Or I guess maybe it's just a difference of opinion and that's fine as well.


That was definitely it for me. New Day retaining, the Best of 7 series basically continuing because why the fuck not after 6 matches of actual finishes, and Jericho winning just because really made me scratch my head.

Plus the in ring work just wasn't quite as good as Backlash.


----------



## YestleMania (Dec 7, 2015)

Corey said:


> That was definitely it for me. New Day retaining, the Best of 7 series basically continuing because why the fuck not after 6 matches of actual finishes, and Jericho winning just because really made me scratch my head.
> 
> Plus the in ring work just wasn't quite as good as Backlash.


Just realized I called it Night of Champions. :lol

Anyways, yeah when (in my opinion) the show has fucked booking decisions it really ruins the flow and mood of the show. I mean, I don't mean to sound like a complete smark but come on. I can't just go on in ring work alone even though it was solid but as you said not up to par with Backlash and certainly not on par booking wise.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> *In 2016, The Miz and Dolph Ziggler had a better match than Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens.*
> 
> RATINGZZ
> 
> ...


*While I would not have any that if someone told prior to this year, I actually loved that Miz-Ziggler match so much that I'll let it slide (I gave it **** 1/4, probably overrating it a bit). I really couldn't stand the overbooking in the main event, as the extra time for the PPV didn't seem to help at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Jericho's run, but there seemed to be a whole lot of nothing substantial going on in those ~15 minutes of time added to the PPV. I'd probably have liked it to have been tighter, but I don't know. Something just didn't click for me.

Jax/Fox: Didn't Watch
New Day/Club: **1/2
Perkins/Kendrick: **3/4
Cesaro/Sheamus: *** 3/4
Jericho/Zayn: ***1/4
Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte: ** 1/2
Reigns/Rusev: ***
Rollins/Owens: **3/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reigns & Rusev go ANOTHER fucking 25 minutes just so we can get a countout. Just make the HIAC match official already.

@RatedR10 you were right, Sheamus & Cesaro are now a tag team. Makes even less sense that they're going up against New Day though, who once again beat The Club tonight. I don't understand this shit.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Guys, just READING the results felt like a complete waste of time. I didn't even watch this shit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Guys, just READING the results felt like a complete waste of time. I didn't even watch this shit.


They're literally just handing out title matches for the hell of it. Club got a rematch tonight, Kendrick gets a rematch with Perkins next week for no reason, and Charlotte/Sasha is happening again on free television instead of saving it for PPV. So desperate for ratings.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Dug the finale of the CWC - ZSJ/Metalik absolutely ruled - as good or better than any other match of the tournament. Dorada is an amazing pick-up for WWE, and every single one of his matches were good, even while flying under the radar for most of the tourney. I was a bit miffed at TJP going over, but whatever. Rumors, not signing, whatnot. The other side of the coin is that WWE built a new player in TJP who's well-rounded enough to work with most all other cruisers and put on good matches. Time will tell if it was ultimately the right call.

Also LOL at any mention of Kendrick being a babyface. Like, wtf show were you watching? He was the one cutting off his opponent, he was the one running the heat. Yeah, he really wanted to win to vindicate himself...and he was willing to do anything necessary to do it. That's not a babyface people. Too much Breaking Bad for some people, smh. It's good though because the biggest thing the division lacks is a heel and familiarity, and Kendrick has both. His match with TJP was clumsy in spots but good in others, so a mixed bag overall.

NOC was solid, Charlotte still bossing on the women's division is damn fine to watch. I didn't really care for the main, but that's mostly because the whole "I'm a babyface - WITH EDGE!" does so little for me. Fuck me, wear something that isn't black. Sheamus/Cesaro was real good, and I didn't really have a problem with the finish - the reverse sweep angle seems to trite, I'm glad they took a different direction. Reigns/Rusev was good too. Not much of a surprise - Rusev does crush - and I though Reigns held up his own as well. Now stop with all the smirking, damn. SmirkFest '99 over here w/that shit. Killer idea though, hear me out. I want a hair vs. hair match between Rusev and Reigns where Rusev goes over dirty, and cuts some of the Fabio from Reigns. Roman would look a lot like Main Main/Cibernetico with short hair (and better knees ha). 

My biggest problem with WWE right now, and I've said it before, is that everyone is so new to the roster. Aside from Jericho and a few bit players/part-timers, almost no one has been on the main roster for more than a few years. I love the talent pool and enjoy the shows, but it definitely feels like this is something WWE should have followed through with years ago. You can tell there is an "out of the loop" problem because everyone is billed as "the next big star" but everyone can't be that at the same time, and fans are having some trouble identifying who they actually should get behind or take seriously. This is why, no matter how aged, Jericho is the key right now, moving forward. Along with Cena, he's the only consistent performer who 95+% of fans actually know and are established. It's a tough sport for sure in that sense, and WWE only has themselves to blame, but I do hope it gets sorted because the talent is surely there.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose/Styles II - ****

I love Smackdown. <3 

Miz and Ziggler were also on fucking fire tonight to set up their Career vs. Title match. Amazing segment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Miz is ready to Main Event again. Guy is damn good. 

I'm about to watch Ambrose/Styles...


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Gotta chime in on the Miz/Ziggler segment - that was as good a segment as I've seen in years. I've been on the Miz hype-train since he came back a few years ago after filming one of The Marine movies and subsequent "I'm the Marine, dammit!" promo. But damn, those were some choice words. Both guys made it feel real and the emotion was great - Miz with those harsh truths. I would've booed the shit out of him if I were in the audience, and I don't even like Ziggler!

Ambrose/Styles was also excellent - Ambrose with those Nigel McGuinness Lariats, FUCK. It's so awesome he's kept them alive, and his form throwing them is top notch - especially from a guy who isn't much bigger than his opponents. Really hot finish - crowd was eating it up by the end.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I definitely liked this show but if ever there was an example of match quality only being able to carry a product so far it was this one. Nothing on the show was great so in that sense the entire show is skippable if you’re only interested in matches you should make time to see. There was nothing of that mold on the show. What you did get however was 3 (and a bit) hours worth of consistently solid ***+ wrestling. Which is good but can’t really stand alone by itself without good booking, interesting rivalries and compelling characters. Without all that you flirt dangerously with “take it or leave it” territory and right now there’s more leaving going on than taking.

Nia vs Alicia I dug a lot for what it was. I like both girls way more than the common consensus and I knew going on there was a strong chance I’d enjoy it, even if the match ended up being the bare necessities of what it needed to be, which it did indeed end up being. I need more rag dolling in my wrestling and this had some very good rag dolling so I was a happy camper for that. Fox’s kicks look good which means her hope spots vs Nia work in a believable sense without Jax having to bump for weak offence. I’m a fan of Jax winning with different finishes because when she starts working competitive matches that’s a whole ton of convincing near falls you have at your disposal which is something the vast majority of the roster suffers from a lack of. Sami Zayn’s Blue Thunder Powerbomb is way over as a near fall for reasons I can’t truly fathom but am definitely appreciative of so this is a poor example but imagine if he won a match every now and again with that move how much more convincing of a near fall it would be when someone like Chris Jericho kicks out of it in a bigger match. Or for a better example if Roman Reigns actually put away guys he’s going over in non/semi competitive matches with the Superman Punch. Back to the match in hand, it wasn’t much but I enjoyed it for what it was.

New Day vs The Club was a pretty good sprint I thought. Anderson & Gallows haven’t really impressed me thus far into their run but then again how many opportunities have they had to go out and have a better standard of match than they’ve had? The Tornado Tag vs The Usos was worked at way too fast a pace but it was good for what it was, last month at Summerslam they were basically told we’re using your match to do an unwarranted and unwanted Jon Stewart routine and this here was really as good as it could be for how long it went. Structure of the match was odd given the ending. Everything before the finish was designed to make The Club look one step ahead of Kofi and Big E from the hot start to the cut off hot tag. When tag matches go against the grain like that they’re usually a good indicator of the finish but I suppose this was just designed to put over Anderson & Gallows in some way despite them ultimately doing the job. I know a lot of people think The New Day should have dropped the belts either at Summerslam or here to Anderson & Gallows but it really doesn’t matter. None of the belts really matter who they’re on but especially the tag belts and even more so now that the division has been split in two. With or without them New Day will be atop the division (and rightfully so given how over they are) and Anderson & Gallows will likely move onto the same next program they would have with or without winning the belts. Plus I’m not exactly hearing a better argument for either stance other than you’re taking away the best part of New Day’s shtick if you take the belts off them (are you gyrating in your seat too at the moment or just me?).

TJ vs Kendrick was a very solid but ultimately not one bit memorable match. Ideally within the first week the Cruiserweights would have come in and had a real statement maker of a match but they haven’t and I don’t think they can with the current talent pool they have. Everyone there ranges between good to very good taking general consensus opinions but the division doesn’t have an Ibushi who stands out above and beyond all the others as a real star attraction and can have a legitimately great match with just about anyone that makes both wrestlers look great. It’s not a knock on any of them to say that none of them are an Ibushi because there’s like a handful of wrestlers who could fit into that role. None of them are a Rey. Most aren’t even a Psicosis or a Juventud or a La Parka where they have that instant wow factor when you watch their matches for the first time. They’re good undersized wrestlers (with HEART) but with first impressions forming lasting impressions this isn’t a good start to a new division that to the viewer who didn’t watch the CWC is probably seeing as being overhyped.

Like I said, the match was solid. I thought TJ looked good and the headscissors over the top rope was a great spot that got the crowd on their feet. I HATE what they’ve done with Kendrick and he should too because he’s gone from someone who reinvented his perception among fans who watched him on the CWC as a truly elite worker in the wiley but desperate veteran role and became for me, one of only a handful of other wrestlers who I’ve genuinely wanted to see win a wrestling match (others being Bryan, Zayn & Bayley and I don’t think I’m leaving anyone out). And I don’t mean win because I like them and they’re my guy, I mean win because wins and losses matter in this scenario and I want them to win for themselves and not just for my own pleasure. You know, the real sort of investment in the outcome of a pre-determined cosplay of a sport. Kendrick had that and I wasn’t an anomaly in feeling that way about him. Kendrick clawing his way to the top of his division and winning the Cruiserweight belt should have been the feel good underdog story of 2017. So naturally he’s now a generic heel who is back to looking like a good but largely not all that impressive wrestler.

I get the need for heels in the division, it’s a legit need. However, Kendrick, along with TJ, should have been completely and utterly exempt from being turned because natural babyfaces are hard to find and stories as compelling as the one Kendrick had going during the CWC are even harder to come across. But it is what it is and if you had really genuine hopes of everything that was good about the CWC spilling over onto Raw then I have no sympathy for you because you should know better by now. In WWE there’s essentially two world. The Network world and the TV world. Vince essentially lets the Network world run free and present “sports entertainment” however they want but when anything crosses over into Vince’s TV world, the rules change, they’re Vince’s rules and you play by Vince’s god damn rules. “We’ll have the bad guy attack the good guy after the match and that forms a feud and 3 month series of matches. Let’s meet again in 3 months to decide what to do with them next!”.

Also, they gave the Cruiserweights purple ring ropes rather than the red everyone else competed within. And I know to most it’s just a colour and to some they actually find it cool that they have a different presentation but to me it represents a major reason why this Cruiserweight division is doomed. It’s a side show. They’re not part of the main roster, in the same way that the Women’s division is separate. They’re in a bubble together, can only compete together and very rarely, if ever, interact with anyone outside of their bubble. And that’s fine for the Women because it works and they can’t do anything besides mixed tags with the Men anyway. But it’s nothing like being the same for the Cruiserweights. They shouldn’t be defined by their size in the same way that the Women are defined by their gender. And if my belief that this will just be a break within the regular programming where Raw switches to a purple theme and they have these smaller guys (with HEART) wrestle is on point, then it spells trouble.

Say you’re Hideo Itami for instance and your introduction to the main roster is imminent. If you’re switched on enough, you must be praying that they don’t put you in this Cruiserweight division. Because if they do, you’re stuck facing the same 5-10 guys all year round in a division that won’t be presented as being on par with the heavyweights further up the card. Don’t get any ideas of facing guys like John Cena and Roman Reigns Hideo, or even Finn Balor and AJ Styles, because you’re in the side show division. Now granted its just speculation but there’s a lot to it (remember when it was being reported that when the Cruiserweights debuted they’d be on the NXT touring circuit rather than the Raw one) and if I am right about it, that’s a very low glass ceiling for a lot of very talented wrestlers.

Back to the show after another trademark ramble.

Sheamus vs Cesaro was the best match on the show. Out of context that was a really great finish that had you hot to see another match between the pair. And then you put it into context and realise that for as great as this was and as good as all of their matches have been, you’re just so done with this pairing and you revert back to “oh great, Sheamus vs Cesaro again I guess”. And that’s so WWE to come up with a great finish and then use it in the worst context possible. Frankly, they were really lucky that the match got as hot as it did at the end which caused the reaction to this finish from the live crowd to be the optimum response for that finish and made them forget that this was match 7, they were ending a 7 match series that nobody wanted in the first place with a no contest and it probably meant another Sheamus vs Cesaro match they had no interest in seeing.

Match started off like a match you’d seen before and didn’t overly enjoy the previous however many times in recent memory. It was hard to get into. Cesaro’s 619 did not look good but I kinda like that it didn’t look good because that move really should be unique to Rey until long into the future and a guy Cesaro’s size, regardless of how astonishingly gifted he is, doing it like Rey did kinda kills the move. And granted it’s not like WWE should care about protecting the trademark move of a guy who doesn’t work for them anymore and isn’t on all that good terms with them. But still. During the match Cole reeled off all of Sheamus’ accomplishments and I’m like, if you have a guy as cold as Sheamus is and positioned how he’s been all year, it’s maybe not the best idea to bring up how he’s pretty much won everything there is to win in WWE and yet he finds himself stuck in the 50-50 club.

Match really kicked into that higher gear that their matches have so often failed to get up to after the botched suicide dive. Which looked horrific when I first saw it. I really thought that was game over for Cesaro. They went almost straight to a replay of it and I was really worried about seeing a replay of it before it was clear that Cesaro was legit ok. Didn’t look any better on replay. It was pretty ballsy of them to replay it that many times given how easily Cesaro could have seriously messed his neck up on the landing. And let’s face it, a wrestler saying he’s ok is hardly to be taken as gospel. Brouge Kick near fall as soon as they got back in the ring was awesome and I totally brought it. In hindsight, them kicking out of finishers in match 7 should have been obvious but it worked so well coming straight off the botched dive as a “get in the ring and wrap it up asap” ending. Everything after that was total balls to the walls with them trading big bombs and it worked because of the finish. To do that finish they pretty much had to go hard on the big spots at the end. It’s just a shame that it was diluted by WWE matches going in that direction more often than not in matches between the bigger names so it didn’t stand out quite as it would have done otherwise.

Zayn vs Jericho was another chapter in the “Chris Jericho’s character work is still great but his ring work has betrayed him” story of 2016. He’s just not all that good in the ring anymore and this wasn’t much of a match. Nor was it all that good of a showcase for Sami Zayn either. Sami should probably just cut out the moonsault off the barricade spot because there’s not enough height for it to look good and it barely ever seems to connect in a way that looks good, if at all. Jericho going over is what it is. Zayn is way too much of a loser than an underdog on the main roster. His character should be coming up just short in the really big matches but constantly looking strong in every other match. Instead he just loses every single match of any significance other than the “feud ender” with Kevin Owens which in hindsight, is the one match that he should have lost. But hindsight is a beautiful thing in making us look more intelligent than we really are. The only scenario in which the finish makes sense is if Jericho is in a big match at Hell in a Cell and they continue to have no plans for Sami Zayn on Raw despite Smackdown’s roster depth being alarmingly thin and so badly in need of a Sami Zayn or a Cesaro to go over there and become a big player in a smaller pond. But if recent history is anything to go by then Sami will be getting a Title shot on the next PPV and Jericho’s most important contribution will be talking segments to put bigger stars than himself over.

The Womens match was good but it was pretty clear that any combination of the 3 in a singles match would have been significantly better. I’m not against 3 ways and this was definitely a good match but it clearly dampened the potential of any of them having a standout match on the night. Bayley basically got added so that Sasha didn’t have to take another loss to Charlotte. Which isn’t too bad as Bayley won’t be too damaged because “wins and losses don’t matter” works both ways and her having a losing streak of Title matches before her time comes is just fine. They should probably drop the No DQ stip from multi person matches and just say that if you get DQ’d you’re thrown out and the match continues without you because Dana interfering at select times and not just interjecting herself throughout the entire match is a massive gap in logic. And I know it happens literally every single time this scenario comes about but consistency is never a reprieve for poor booking. I thought the spot where Dana pulled Charlotte out of the ring to break up the pin would have been the perfect break up angle for them two if Sasha had pinned Bayley in the ring as Charlotte was on the floor. So of course it didn’t happen. Finish was really poorly executed and reminiscent of the old era of divas trying awkwardly hard to be in the right spot for sequences above their talent level. Finish itself looked weak too and was “was that it?” type of finish. I know I said earlier about how wrestlers should win matches with secondary moves sometimes but this isn’t the match to start doing that in. I’m also a big advocate of KO strikes just ending a match in an instant too and maybe was that the idea but the kick was not even close to having that level of impact to be a convincing finish.

Reigns vs Rusev was a real personal disappointment. It was probably the match I was looking forward to most on the card and the one I thought would be MOTN given the standards both have set. What we got was a really dull basic by the numbers match which felt more like the Saturday Night House Show match they’d have the night before the PPV. Reigns obviously has all sorts of problems but I’ve never had my personal enjoyment of his matches affected by them. However, I think the lack of any heat really hurt both of them here. The crowd was pretty cold all night actually minus the conclusion of Sheamus vs Cesaro. I don’t know about the ref taking the pulled out of the ring spot off a pull from Lana. When they didn’t show her executing the spot I thought for certain that one of the wrestlers was coming out to screw Reigns. Reigns winning is fine because it just doesn’t matter which of them is holding the belt. Rusev won’t fade into the background with the shape of the current Raw roster so he’ll bounce back. Does Reigns really gain a lot from this? No. He needed a big win after a pretty terrible few months since the wellness violation though. I’m pretty surprised given they do everything in their power to a comedic degree to make this Reigns experiment work that they didn’t make him MR. AMERICA against the Russian/Bulgarian/Wherever Rusev is from this month monster disrespecting America and the US Title.

I’m surprised to see so many so down on Owens vs Rollins as I thought it was very good even with the finish. I have no sympathy for people who felt let down or even cheated by the ending of the match because you’re unless you’ve only been watching since the turn of the year, you should know what’s coming in a match like this where they book themselves into a corner by pairing together two acts who really need wins and can’t afford a clean loss. Heck, you get this finish in pretty much every PPV main event regardless. Consistency and expectancy aren’t an excuse for poor booking mind but I really don’t think this was a badly booked finish. I can’t go as far as to call it a well booked finish because it is what it is and its part of a much larger problem with how WWE book finishes to their bigger matches, but it was a necessary finish and they didn’t book the wrong finish at least. Owens needs some guys to go over clean to give him some needed credibility as Champion but Seth isn’t the guy to sacrifice for that cause fresh off a babyface turn (even if the execution of the turn itself is terrible). And Owens obviously shouldn’t be losing this soon so this was a time where this finish was the right finish. The fact the final stage from Jericho’s introduction onwards felt like 5 minutes of a 25 minute match didn’t help though. That final stage of the match needed to be executed much quicker. Also 25 minutes to do a cheap finish as you move into hour 5 of the show (including the pre-show) is too long. The bit at the end with MCMAHON DRAMA~! is what it is but the Title picture has to always be about them and the guys fighting in the ring are just props for them to manoeuvre as they wish in their family drama.

I didn’t feel that the ending detracted from the match which was very good up to that point. I haven’t been a big fan of Owens on the main roster but this was for me his best performance in a single match since he got to WWE (including NXT). His heel work was on point but we’re at a point with Owens where it’s just impossible for him to get big heel heat regardless of the work he does. He’s just too popular with the live crowds who appreciate him for his heel work rather than reacting to it with dislike but deep down appreciating him for it. They can’t hide that appreciation. I thought Owens was great as the heel who think he’s the greatest thing in the world. The “fade to black” trash talking would normally annoy me but he pulled it off in a way where he’s trying to be overly witty and fell in love with himself for coming up with such incredible banter that it worked. Owens crashing and burning through the table off the DX chop (the use of the DX chop is a whole other essay for another time) at the height of his cockiness was great. Rollins was good in this too but he didn’t strike as me different enough in the ring to when he worked as a heel. Which is because he worked way too much of a babyface in ring style as a heel so that was pretty inevitable. He needs to babyface up his ring work but in fairness he didn’t get a whole lot of time on offence here because this wasn’t the go all out match being the first of their series (and rightly so). The gutbuster spot off the top rope I thought was daft even before I learned that Seth got injured off it. It’s high risk and frankly low reward because the guys at the bottom of the card are doing similar spots themselves now and this one didn’t even look all that aesthetically pleasing. They badly need to start working safer because they’re setting a standard that is too dangerous on a regular basis and they simply can’t afford the rate of injuries they’ve had in the last 12 months even before they split the rosters in two.

There wasn’t a bad match on the card but there wasn’t anything great either. It’s hard to get excited for a show like this though that’s plagued by bad booking, characters lacking emotional attachments, feuds that lack creativity and interest and the fact that we can see all these matches for free on TV. 4 of the matches will have been done again for free on TV by next Monday night (Charlotte vs Sasha actually being an upgraded version), Sheamus vs Cesaro is the total opposite of fresh and Zayn and Jericho had a bunch of matches earlier the year on free TV.

A good card of pro wrestling but so what?*


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Anyone wanna rank the Austin/Angle series? I'm specifically looking for ratings for the unforgiven 01 match. I watched it again yesterday first time in a couple years. In a day and age where it's all about spots and finisher kick outs it was very refreshing to see a storytelling and selling classic. 

I'd go ****1/2 possibly *****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Just watched Raw... I swear to God if I never see another Charlotte vs. Sasha match I'll be fine with that. I legitimately think they're going to kill themselves whenever they work together.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brought back "5 Matches With..." as a monthly post on my BLOG~!. Returning today with... RANDY SAVAGE! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-randy-savage/ .


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Shawn Michaels defeated The Undertaker in the first Hell In The Cell match at Bad Blood 1997 from the Kiel Center in St. Louis, Missouri.

- Vic


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I haven't seen Shawn Michaels vs Diesel from WM11 for years, for some reason I feel like watching it. Actually going to check out some stuff from WWF 1995/96


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, The Brotherhood defeated The Shield at Battleground 2013 from the First Niagara Center in Buffalo, New York.

- Vic


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

tboneangle said:


> Anyone wanna rank the Austin/Angle series? I'm specifically looking for ratings for the unforgiven 01 match. I watched it again yesterday first time in a couple years. In a day and age where it's all about spots and finisher kick outs it was very refreshing to see a storytelling and selling classic.
> 
> I'd go ****1/2 possibly *****


I love their whole series. That's mainly due to the fact that Austin is my favourite wrestler of all time and was and still am a big fan of Angle. I'd say ***** just for bias


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Actually going to give No Mercy a try tonight. Raw has been so horrid since the split and KO is total balls as champ. Really not enjoying him in that role at all tbh. There's lots to look forward to on SD though. Should be a good show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christ, another PPV? LOL.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

RatedR10 said:


> In 2016, The Miz and Dolph Ziggler had a better match than Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens.


To be fair... when was the last legitimately good Rollins match? 2014/2013?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Rah said:


> To be fair... when was the last legitimately good Rollins match? 2014/2013?


His triple threat with Cena and Lesnar was in 2015.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Christ, another PPV? LOL.


Lol, I know. I understand that their strategy is anywhere, any time, any device, but they really need to slow the fuck down. It's _too_ much. I never look forward to wrestling any more because there's always something going on and it's usually something shit. At least No Mercy has a real build and consequences to most matches. I'll definitely catch it tomorrow night because I'll be watching the debate tonight instead.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Lol, I know. I understand that their strategy is anywhere, any time, any device, but they really need to slow the fuck down. It's _too_ much. I never look forward to wrestling any more because there's always something going on and it's usually something shit. At least No Mercy has a real build and consequences to most matches. I'll definitely catch it tomorrow night because I'll be watching the debate tonight instead.


I quit a week after the draft so I won't be watching it at all .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> I quit a week after the draft so I won't be watching it at all .


I went to Summerslam, watched the Raw and SD after each one, tried the Raw after that and pretty much checked out. I have kept up with Smackdown in my own time but Raw is horrendous. KO is a terrible champ. Not feeling that at all. SD is worth your time though, even if just Youtube clips which is what I've been doing. It's fun and easy to watch. Can't ask for much more than that really.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I went to Summerslam, watched the Raw and SD after each one, tried the Raw after that and pretty much checked out. I have kept up with Smackdown in my own time but Raw is horrendous. KO is a terrible champ. Not feeling that at all. SD is worth your time though, even if just Youtube clips which is what I've been doing. It's fun and easy to watch. Can't ask for much more than that really.


Sadly my interest in current wrestling in general, and wwe's entire roster is lower than its ever been. I have zero interest in seeing any of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's certainly too much imo. We had Summerslam, then what was it, Backlash. Then Clash of the Champions, now it's No Mercy and in a couple of weeks it's Hell in A Cell.

Too much to digest, take in and at least try to enjoy in such a short span of time.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^ It's absolutely too much. For anybody who works and has a social life, it's simply not possible to dedicate 9 hours a week to wrestling. It's way too much. 



Big Cal's World said:


> Sadly my interest in current wrestling in general, and wwe's entire roster is lower than its ever been. I have zero interest in seeing any of it.


That's fair and also similar to me. I mean I like a number of the current roster but none of them have been able to truly captivate me like I have been by rosters in the past, either individually or as an ensemble. I don't think it's all a creative issue either tbh. Anyways, I try to catch the bits and pieces that interest me when I can. But WWE run so many shows now that it's really hard to keep up with everything.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Can't be bothered to wait 2+ hours into the event to watch the main event?

You don't have to. WWE have CONFIRMED that the World Heavyweight Title match between Cena/Styles/Ambrose is OPENING the show :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Miz/Ziggler gonna be main eventing. God damn. 


yeah, too many damn shows/PPVs. I'm so burned out on all the programming in general, but at least tonight's a Smackdown show and not a Raw show.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> Miz/Ziggler gonna be main eventing. God damn.
> 
> 
> yeah, too many damn shows/PPVs. I'm so burned out on all the programming in general, but at least tonight's a Smackdown show and not a Raw show.


Yeah while this is probably a paradise to kids who are on that time when you get the burn for wrestling and REALLY get immersed in the product because you are "wow'd" by everything, this certainly is taxing for everyone else I would think regardless of love for the craft. Personally, I've slanted to being a pretty pure SD guy and checking out what looks interesting from Raw either in quick glances or at a later time. That doesn't amount to much. Add too that while I only check out portions of NXT specials or a really praised match: many follow that product too which tacks on an hour.

Not to mention: the burnout is compounded when this schedule forces the roster to practically round-robin multiple times every six months. Even with SD's solid booking with nice flow: HOW IS A FEUD SUPPOSE TO BREATHE AND MARINATE WITH THIS SCHEDULE!!!!!! HARD TO BUILD REAL TENSION/ANIMOSITY IN A MONTH. I completely take my hat off to Miz and Ziggler for genuinely doing so in their short time though for sure. 

Anyway. as for tonight: Backlash was imo. finest ppv of the year considerably and a ppv solidly booked with no subpar matches imo. I hope No Mercy brings it and we got an interesting card. I really look forward to seeing what kind of chemistry Orton and Bray have!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Sadly my interest in current wrestling in general


This is where I'm at. It's like I enjoy seeing people talk about wrestling but when I try to want to watch it I just don't. I might be moving house soon and IDK if I'll bother bringing my wrestling DVDs with me for a while.


MIZ/ZIGGLER MAIN EVENT HAHA INTEREST AT NEGATIVE SIX MILLION


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That triple threat was a MOTYC IMO. God damn I loved it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah I had a lot of fun with the triple threat. Loved the frantic pace and the unpredictable booking towards the end. Thought we might have had a situation where they would have another title match to end the show (a la 2008) but I'm glad they didn't. Crowd really loves AJ and I'm glad they tried to protect Dean and had Cena lose again. Gonna go end low end ****. AJ should've done more with the chair to win imo.

Also enjoyed that Carmella/Nikki match. Solid performance from Carmella. I mean, she beat the fuck out of her. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The only thing I remember from Nikki/Carmella was Nikki's shorts.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, really good Tag Title match. That powerslam off the middle rope that Slater did was something I'm not sure I've ever seen before. Ending stretch was great too. Very surprised One Man Rhyno won. *** 1/4



RatedR10 said:


> The only thing I remember from Nikki/Carmella was Nikki's shorts.


They were certainly memorable.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Surprised Beauty & The Man Beast (lol) retained but I'm not complaining. I love both, BATMB and Heel Usos. Fun tag match for sure. 

Corbin/Swagger was perfectly fine IMO. Nothing horrible at all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So Wyatt vs. Orton closing I guess...gotta imagine there's some sort of angle. I expected Miz vs. Ziggler to close.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> So Wyatt vs. Orton closing I guess...gotta imagine there's some sort of angle. I expected Miz vs. Ziggler to close.


Yeah this is getting kinda puzzling. I have no idea what to expect.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This IC Title match may be better than the World Title match god damn.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This might be my MOTY.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Call me crazy, I don't care. Under the WWE umbrella, that's the MOTY, IMO. Better than Nakamura vs. Zayn. Cena vs. Styles. Styles vs. Ambrose. Amazing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:clap

Ah what the hell, I'll chuck another 4 snowflakes at that. Had me on the edge of my seat for sure. Hell of a story that unfolded. Legit SHOCKED me that Ziggler went over and I have no earthly idea why that didn't go on last. Something really big must be planned for Orton/Wyatt.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

That's two PPVs in a row that Miz and Ziggler have got MOTN.

Crazy.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Erik. said:


> That's two PPVs in a row that Miz and Ziggler have got MOTN.
> 
> Crazy.


That's also two matches where the two have wrestled what can legitimately be rated a great match at **** and very debatable the best WWE main roster matches which is even crazier.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

They've had three ****+ matches in about a month. 

Backlash
Smackdown
No Mercy, and this one is my MOTY. They're awesome. 

Have Ziggler work some heel midcards in the IC Title picture and put Miz back in the main event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown's booking has really elevated so many people into viable contenders. Corbin has moved up the ranks, Miz has become a main eventer again in many people's eyes, Ziggler wins the IC Title and it _really_ means something, it's not all about Cena, and the tag division has been great. SMACKDOWN


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Really interested to see this chemistry. If the two have locked up on TV or PPV: I havent seen it.

edit: 1 on 1 I mean


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well that was... a main event.

If only Rowan wasn't hurt then we could have another team to add to this stacked division.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

HARPER :mark::mark::mark: thank GOD this company isn't putting him on Raw.

What a really good show.

Ambrose/Cena/Styles: ****1/2
Carmella/Nikki: *1/2
Usos/BATMB: ***1/4
Corbin/Swagger: **1/4
Miz/Ziggler: *****
Bliss/Naomi: *3/4
Orton/Wyatt: **1/2


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

*I was a bit busy watching the debate, so I'll update this after some exams tomorrow.
*
Ambrose/Cena/Styles: **** 1/4
Carmella/Nikki: Did not watch intently
Usos/BATMB: ***1/2
Corbin/Swagger: Watching Debate
Miz/Ziggler: ****** (Well aware that I'm probably overrating this match, but I haven't been this focused on one in a LONG time.)* 
Bliss/Naomi: Did not watch
Orton/Wyatt: ***


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

Can't wait to check this out.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Cena/Ambrose/Styles: ****1/4
Nikki/Carmella: **1/2
Usos/Slater&Rhyno: ***3/4
Corbin/Swagger: **1/2
Miz/Ziggler: ****3/4
Bliss/Naomi: Half a star
Wyatt/Orton: *1/4


----------



## B316 (Feb 26, 2016)

John Cena vs AJ Styles vs Dean Ambrose - ***
Nikki Bella vs Carmella - **
Usos vs Slater and Rhyno - **
Baron Corbin vs Jack Swagger - *
The Miz vs Dolph Ziggler - ****
Bliss vs Naomi - *
Orton vs Wyatt - *


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> Call me crazy, I don't care. Under the WWE umbrella, that's the MOTY, IMO. Better than Nakamura vs. Zayn. Cena vs. Styles. Styles vs. Ambrose. Amazing.


*I totally agree. That was perfect for what it was supposed to be, and that's not trying to sugarcoat it. It felt perfect, I can't remember any glaring flaws off the top of my head, and the flaws apparently added to the match because I can't remember them. I might need to watch again.*


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Ziggler/Miz match was amazing. Had me really invested in the match and they had me fooled twice on what I thought the finish was. Just a really satisfying experience. I loved the interference and the heel tactics from the Miz. He's been doing it for a while now and it's just a great feeling when he just keeps cheating but the babyface finally overcomes it all and gets the win anyway. 


On a different note the "Hidden Gems" WWE put up on the Network is pretty great. Watched the "Last Battle of Atlanta" and it was pretty amazing even with the really short run time. I wasn't expecting a 10 minute match. That being said good chunks of it just felt like a real fight between the two of them. Lots of fun to watch. And that Flair/Windham match is a blast to watch. I don't think it gets better than Flair in the 80s defending his title.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Hey everyone, I'm trying to watch all old classic (or new matches) for Sting..
Can someone here list Sting's top 5 singles matches with a different opponent? 

From what I've seen, I think the list is probably Great Muta, Foley, Flair, Vader and (maybe AJ?) ?? and what was the event's name ? thanks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He has 2 matches with DDP on Nitro, one in 98 and one in 98.
A PPV match in 96 Vs Regal
Then aside from his stuff with Vader, and matches with Foley, he doesn't have a damn thing worth seeing .


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

When do we get meltzers no mercy ratings?


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

tboneangle said:


> When do we get meltzers no mercy ratings?


Here:


> Hype Bros and American Alpha vs. Ascension and Vaudevillains - **1/2
> 
> AJ Styles (c) vs. John Cena vs. Dean Ambrose - ***3/4
> 
> ...


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Beccause TV sucks, here's some house show matches:









 @Obfuscation


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

now got an urge to bust out my goldberg wcw career comp


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

returning with the WCW theme :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

leaving with the wwe theme......

hopefully they let him keep his wcw one tbh. Unless that was a compromise. Still, coming out to the wcw one was the right call.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chabo Sucks. Testing.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That Styles/Ellsworth match was some of the best comedy WWE has done in ages. Great commentary, Ellsworth slipping out the rear chinlock because he has no chin :maury: Ambrose's announcements, the NO CHIN MUSIC :mark:


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Brock Lesnar defeated The Undertaker in a Biker Chain (Chain On A Pole) match at No Mercy 2003 from the 1st Mariner Arena in Baltimore, Maryland.

- Vic


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Brock Lesnar defeated The Undertaker in a Hell In The Cell match at No Mercy 2002 from the Alltel Arena in Little Rock, Arkansas.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know this is uploaded online, but wasn't sure if WWE had overdubbed it
with their WWE theme, as i saw the WWE logo. So here it is from the live broadcast

x4yezfh_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Styles & Ambrose with another really good match tonight. Finish was fucking hilarious. Had me dying. Smackdown itself feels like a completely different company. So much more entertaining and easier to watch than RAW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

been watching goldberg's wcw run from the start, up until the meng match on saturday night










:woah

what happened to the thread tho :jose


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Decided to catch myself up on some wrasslin this week in the form of NXT. I'm going to the MSG show in a few weeks. Tell you what, it was pretty fun. When Ciampa turns on Gargano it's going to be pretty tremendous. I don't know about the HIAC PPV tonight. I might just put on actual HIAC matches instead since I have the urge to watch back. God knows it will be better than the garbage set to come out of Boston later on.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just rewatched HHH/Batista's Vengeance HIAC. Man, that is still a very physical match where you can feel the heat so to speak and JR sure works hard to sell that one. Not the level of warfare/quality Brock/Taker HIAC 02 is in the "war match" department: but nonetheless a hell of a physical effort as I remember it being. Funny though that since Batista is still relatively green: you can see the match was constructed to be smoke and mirrored to hide it but it really works in this context.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As it's HIAC night, think i'll dig out Brock/Taker from No Mercy. Been a while.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HHH/Batista may just be my _favorite_ HIAC match ever. Not calling it the best (even though I think it's up there) but man that was some awesome brutality.

Do not have high hopes for really anything on the show tonight. Completely dreading Reigns/Rusev and while Charlotte/Sasha is cool that it's happening, what can they really do that would be worthy of ALL of this hype? Guess we'll see. Rollins/Owens certainly has potential but I feel some fuckery coming. RAW has also caused me to not care about the tag division at all and the cruiserweights are whatever. Perkins has been an annoying little shit.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Women's HIAC gets 20 stars just cause Sasha's ass was hanging out for pretty much the entire thing.

I wasn't interested at all in the show, and it was on mostly in the background to my studying, The Walking Dead, etc., but from what I saw:

Reigns/Rusev - ***
Club/E&C - **
New Day/Sheamus-Cesaro - **1/2
Rollins/Owens - ***3/4
Kendrick/Perkins - *1/2
Sasha/Charlotte - ***1/2
Sasha's ass - *************


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reigns/Rusev - *** 1/4 (This was probably my favorite match from these two because the other ones seem to go for 25 minutes and had nothing but superkick nearfalls.  Really though I liked the physicality and creativity here, even though this felt like one of those old Cena matches where you know he's not losing and he'll break out/kick out of anything and everything. I wanna see Joe come to RAW to beat Reigns)

Owens/Rollins - *** 3/4 (Fucking awesome, even with the Jericho interference. Again, really liked the creativity with how Jericho was introduced and Rollins trying to fend off both of them. I went ballistic at the powerbomb through the tables. Only thing holding it back was the finish feeling a bit flat and they no sold a shit load of chair shots towards the end. Another extremely physical match with Rollins taking mega bumps)

Sasha/Charlotte - *** 3/4 (I was hesitant going in but they absolutely deserved the main event spot. Sasha completely put her body on the line and took an absolute POUNDING. Charlotte at times looked like she was gonna legit puke all over the ring. Table botches kinda sucked but everything else was pulled off nicely. Again though, the finish felt a bit flat and I just don't understand why Charlotte won. Sasha can't get the PPV win in her hometown? C'mon now)

Everything else was inconsequential and forgettable. Tag Title match was all over the place and I just want the New Day to get the record so they can lose the damn belts. It doesn't feel organic at all anymore. Crowd didn't care about the CW Title match, but glad Kendrick won. Just get through with the Perkins program. I can't stand hearing him speak.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Kevin Owens/Seth Rollins was the only watchable thing from HIAC last night in my opinion. No point wasting your time with much else.


----------



## B316 (Feb 26, 2016)

Reigns vs Rusev **
Bayley vs Dana Brooke *
Gallows and Anderson vs Enzo and Cass *
Rollins vs Owens ***
Kendrick vs Perkins *
New Day vs Cesaro and Sheamus *
Sasha vs Charlotte **

Another awful brand split PPV.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

At least Owens/Rollins somewhat redeemed themselves after that shitty match last month.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Is the previous thread(the one before 6/16) available to view still? Not On first page


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW wasn't totally awful. I did enjoy the opening segment with Goldberg/Heyman/Rusev and then the way they closed the show with the Rollins & Reigns moment. Not much in between though. I am entirely too hyped up for this Goldberg/Lesnar match and it's weird. The build so far has just been excellent imo and I hope the momentum continues. If they can just go in there and maul each other I'll be happy. Possible Shield reunion too while Rollins is getting huge reactions as a face? Sounds awesome.

Survivor Series has the looks of being a really good show. That 5-on-5 men's match is gonna be hella crazy. Strowman making the RAW team is kinda ehhhh but obviously they're trying to build him up and at least the Battle Royal stuff with Sami was fun. The opportunities in this fucking match are endless though. Comes down to Styles vs. Rollins and Seth wins it for RAW by upsetting the WWE Champion? Makes me giddy thinking about it. I am a bit concerned with who's gonna be on Team SD though. Cena & Orton are apparently not booked for the show right now so that's a big loss. Expecting Styles, Ziggler, Miz, and Ambrose. Not sure about 5th guy though... maybe Corbin? Wyatt doesn't seem like he would care enough to be in the match. Oh who am I kidding, it's gonna be Kane.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I only watched the overrun of Raw and thought that was enough, tbh.


I read they had Enzo go over Gallows and put The Club in more comedy bullshit, too. fpalm


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

HIAC 2016

Roman/Rusev - ***
Bayley/Dana - *1/2
Enzo&Cass/Club - **
Owens/Rollins - ***3/4
Perkins/Kendrick - **
NewDay/Cesaro&Sheamus - **3/4
Sasha/Charlotte - ****1/4

Possibly the PPV of the year. I know alot of people don't like it but i loved Sasha/Charlotte. The match would have got higher had it now slowed down at the end. WWE have are on a roll of really good PPV's after Mania bar Summerslam.

Roman/Jericho - ***1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daniel97 said:


> Possibly the PPV of the year.


You know the bar has been set low when you're saying that and a whopping 3 matches got ***+ ratings from you. :lol

----------------

Somehow, someway, Styles vs. Ambrose happened yet again tonight and it still felt fresh and entertaining with the Ellsworth stuff. Ending was wild and the crowd loved it.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'll watch last night's SD Live shortly, but just enjoying the opening segment to Wrestlemania 30 again. That shit is awesome and I've watched it hundreds of times! Rock, Austin, and Hogan all in the ring together having a chat. God, I wish I'd been there live.

**One Million Stars**


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I suppose in a weird way it’s kinda fitting that the show was all about the 3 HIAC matches and nothing else. Although that was unintentional. Pretty routine formula for these Raw PPVs, good wrestling marred by horrible booking. But to an even greater extent with this one.

I contemplated watching the pre-show match and then I was like I wouldn’t watch a Tony Nese match with 5 other guys I don’t care for in EVOLVE so why should I watch it just because it’s now in a WWE ring. So I didn’t. Reigns/Rusev was decently good. These 2 really haven’t had the match you’d hope/expect them to have. I’m a big Reigns guy but I thought this was everything that’s bad about him. Not connecting with the crowd, lacklustre selling, seemingly having no offence outside of overdone punches and the spear and the two move comeback (which granted were two strong moves but it’s still a two move comeback straight off a near finish). I would say I don’t get how anyone can possibly care about someone being thown into the Cell at this point but the main event kinda squashed that notion. Both guys here looked as though they got up by bumping into the Cell and what a pointless battle scar to pick up they were. Chain spots were cool because they were different. The cane spot gets done basically every hardcore match so how can you care (Cole selling Reigns not being able to get out of the ropes and then 3 seconds later he’s flying at Rusev was great) and the spots on the steps are getting that way too. And I’m pretty sure those bumps must actually hurt so there’s absolutely no way I’d be taking a spot on them when nobody was even talking about that spot after the show. I spose this is over now so what a real letdown of a series. Bayley/Dana was so bad I had to skip to the end a couple of minutes in. And this is a Bayley match so that’s pretty good going. Was amazing how dead the crowd was for a Bayley match so soon into her run. And yes that’s on Dana but it’s also a lot on WWE because I can’t think of one thing they’ve done to get her over to a new audience and it’s another reason why NXT has been wretched for business. One day I’ll write a massive thesis on it for like 70 people to read and forget about. Tag match was also bad. Anderson and Gallows have really sucked. Bad heat segment, bad character work and there wasn’t even a fun finishing stretch full of MOVES.

Rollins/Owens was a bit better than Reigns/Rusev but again in that decently good ballpark. That superkick sequence fucking sucked. Rollins doesn’t look all that as a babyface worker which is really odd because he can be. The turn was terrible but that has nothing to do with how he works in the ring. The two big spots at least to their credit were big and memorable and nasty. TJ/Kendrick I hated. I knew WWE would mess up the Cruiserweights but god they really excelled in doing so. And a big part of why it’s failed is they don’t have any really good talents in the mix. None of them are better than being good and none of them have any great aura about them. First impressions are everything and they really hurt them by not just waiting to have an awesome division to debut them with. Wait for Dorado to finish up in Mexico, Tozawa to finish in Japan, Gallagher to be ready, Aries and Itami to “graduate” from NXT. But then I’m typing this and I remember that Neville is being used to fill time on Superstars every week so like it fucking matters. Match wasn’t good even before you get to the horrible finish. It really really doesn’t help when everyone else on the card is working a more flashy style than these two are but even taking that out of the equation, nothing about this was entertaining and the crowd was as dead as I’ve seen a crowd. I hated the finish, not only because it made TJ look the biggest moron ever but because they just totally ruined the easiest story ever with Kendrick coming out of the CWC. Which is really really impressive. Remember that post I made after the Ibushi/Kendrick match? Well Kendrick won the belt and I absolutely hated it. They’ve killed TJ dead too. I mean he wasn’t a great choice to lead a new division but of the guys who have been on Raw it’s hard to argue for anyone else in that position. But now he’s lost the Title in his first program after one defence by tapping out after being the only person beside the ref and the commentators in the entire world to buy the bluff. It’s just amazing that the same company produces a show like CWC which got so many acts so over and then produces this which just kills everything dead in the water. New Day match was bad too. I howled uproariously at Kofi doing that hometown promo and then not being in the match. Incredible shenanigans right there. I spent most of the match looking at pretty ladies on Instagram but everytime I looked up Woods seemed to be botching something. Another horrible finish. At least do something where Woods taps as the ref is distracted and then Cesaro gets distracted too and Woods gets a roll up as they both turn around. Anything but a lousy DQ that’s met with groans.

Main event was great. I don’t care that not everything worked because execution isn’t the be all and end all and it never killed the match. This felt like what a HIAC match should within the restrictions of PG. And I just shake my head at people saying the match needed blood or would have been much better if Sasha bled. Vultures. This didn’t feel like what they’d working outside the Cell which has been the biggest problem with modern Cell matches. And granted it helps a lot that the Women never work a match like this so that obviously helps it stand out a lot. I was surprised at how over Sasha was, even more so given how good of a job they did of killing that crowd off in the half hour leading up to it. Charlotte was out of this world good in it. I’d say she’s surpassed Sasha but both are so much better working heel than face it’s unfair to say that. She’s giving The Revival are pretty good run for best heel act. The gloating entrance, the expressions during Sasha’s entrance, the sneak attack, the mocking during the stretcher job, all so amazing. I wasn’t a fan of the stretcher job angle for Rollins/Ambrose and I wasn’t here either. It didn’t work super well how Sasha was clearly accepting of being taken out before they started announcing Charlotte as the winner and then she suddenly got straight up. They worked the angle pretty convincingly though but that also hurt it because they took so much time doing it. The table spot was good but I’m pretty sure they had something much bigger planned given how they were both climbing the cell and then Charlotte fell off kinda awkwardly and the setup for the powerbomb was even more awkward. I hope Sasha gets fined and suspended for attacking that poor innocent bloke who was only trying to help her. Once they got going it was basically their match but with the highspots ramped up a level. Finish was really anti-climatic and I don’t understand Sasha losing one bit. These wrestlers should just say their hometown is somewhere like Luxembourg. I feel bad saying the finish needed to end on something much bigger given how often they go the other way on it but there’s a happy medium and this didn’t hit it. Also pretty sure if Sasha took a few more of those bumps that Charlotte may have ripped her pants clean off. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

seabs said:


> *Also pretty sure if Sasha took a few more of those bumps that Charlotte may have ripped her pants clean off. *


What I was hoping for... :yas


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

This thread is on it's ass. Suprises me people seem to be losing interest in the current product. Since the brand split it's been the best it's been in a very long time. 

Smackdown this week was very good. Bryan/Miz are so good together as are Ambrose/AJ who have had two really good matches these past two weeks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah let's try and get this thread back to prominence. I'm REALLY hyped for Survivor Series. For the first time in a long time the show actually feels major and feels like it deserves to be called one of the big four PPVs. 

WWE.com apparently leaked a photo showing that the last member of Team RAW would be Sami Zayn, but I don't understand why or how it wouldn't be Rollins. How is your number one draft pick not gonna be repping your team?  Hopefully Sami accepts Dolph's IC Title open challenge instead (another really cool addition to the show btw). Maybe that way he could sneak his way over to the blue brand somehow.

ICYMI, Styles vs. Ambrose in a TLC match is gonna headline TLC on Dec. 4th and for whatever fucking reason, it's gonna be Owens vs. Reigns for the Universal Title at Roadblock on Dec. 18th. No clue what he's done to earn that match, but whatevs.

No word on whether he'll be on TV or not, but the Undertaker is slated to return to Smackdown on 11/15 for the 900th episode.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I imagine at Survivor Series the Miz is basically going to be in Ziggler's corner and is going to help him win. Making Ambrose/Styles and Miz/Ziggler the 2 big matches at TLC. If we're getting just 1 TLC match than Ambrose/Styles obviously gets it. If they're doing a TLC, Ladder, Tables, and Chairs match then Ziggler and Miz obviously get the ladder match to and could have a great match, the smart kind of ladder match where someone goes after the belt instead of building a ladder fort. Throw in a fun tables match with some tag teams and make Orton and Wyatt be involved in the stupid Chairs matches and we could have a really good card.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FITZ said:


> I imagine at Survivor Series the Miz is basically going to be in Ziggler's corner and is going to help him win. Making Ambrose/Styles and Miz/Ziggler the 2 big matches at TLC. If we're getting just 1 TLC match than Ambrose/Styles obviously gets it. If they're doing a TLC, Ladder, Tables, and Chairs match then Ziggler and Miz obviously get the ladder match to and could have a great match, the smart kind of ladder match where someone goes after the belt instead of building a ladder fort. Throw in a fun tables match with some tag teams and make Orton and Wyatt be involved in the stupid Chairs matches and we could have a really good card.


I was thinking they might have the women do a ladder match or something, but it just doesn't feel like there's a hot enough program for it. Becky & Alexa would make sense but then I think Alexa may not be tall enough to reach the belt. :lol


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

*Re-watched some stuff on the Network, namely the Three Stages of Hell (Austin-HHH) and the 2MPT v. Benoit-Jericho match from Raw. I'll give the IIISH **** 1/2, but that may be me liking Haitch a bit much. Totally fucking digged it from the first fall to the barbed wire & sledgehammer finish. Austin's style works so well and I believe he is really underrated as a worker by some more casual people. I'll give the tag *****, it's totally amazing and probably my favorite tag ever. I'm still amazed HHH finished the match and goddammit I hate what Benoit did, but he was a damn beast.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

not sure if the 3SOH is still polarising around here, but I still adore it. I know the second fall gets a bit of stick and it is the weakest, but it's just a crazy, over the top, fun as fuck match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Batman said:


> not sure if the 3SOH is still polarising around here, but I still adore it. I know the second fall gets a bit of stick and it is the weakest, but it's just a crazy, over the top, fun as fuck match.


Also love this match (Austin mark)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still think the 3SOH match is pretty mediocre . And while the tag match has grown on me over the years, I don't think its close to being one of the best ever.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah I love the Power Trip vs Jericho/Benoit tag but I think it's not THE best tag like many think it is. I have it around ****1/4, but that HOT crowd helps in making it seem like a near 5 star match.

Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit from No Mercy is still my favorite WWE tag match of all time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My latest edition of 5 MATCHES WITH! This month, BUDDY ROSE! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-buddy-rose/


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> I* still think the 3SOH match is pretty mediocre *. And while the tag match has grown on me over the years, I don't think its close to being one of the best ever.


I'm pretty sure I've gotten this response everytime and I admittedly overrate most matches (especially HHH ones, to my fault). I even disagree with myself sometimes if I look at ratings from a year ago. Also, can someone give me some good tag suggestions? I got some suggestions from /r/squaredcircle I haven't looked into yet, mostly from Japan, so I thought you guys would also be able to give some good suggestions. I'm honestly not too high on tag matches, so Benoit-Jericho is an exception to the rule. If I considered it like my singles, I'd say 4 1/2 * maybe, I don't know.

Also, I still hold the opinion that Blanchard-T.A. in the Steel Cage I Quit is fucking amazing. Another one that I'm in love with and one that really helped me get into wrestling in this sense when I saw it four or five years ago.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Rhodes Bros vs Real Americans (WWE Main Event 18/03/2014) - cannot find a link


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Rhodes Bros vs Real Americans (WWE Main Event 18/03/2014) - cannot find a link


i could upload


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks guys! I've already watched the Rhodes matches with the SHIELD and loved them when they happened, so I'll definitely rewatch them.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@Diamond Taurus

Mysterio & Kidman vs. World's Greatest Tag Team (Smackdown 8/14/2003)
Team Hell No vs. Reigns & Rollins (RAW 5/27/2013)
The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (Great American Bash 1988)

Just a few that sprung to mind.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

uploaded a clean version of a while ago;

*Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane (Raw 05.27.2013)*

x3nnh00


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Diamond Taurus said:


> I'm pretty sure I've gotten this response everytime and I admittedly overrate most matches (especially HHH ones, to my fault). I even disagree with myself sometimes if I look at ratings from a year ago. Also, can someone give me some good tag suggestions? I got some suggestions from /r/squaredcircle I haven't looked into yet, mostly from Japan, so I thought you guys would also be able to give some good suggestions. I'm honestly not too high on tag matches, so Benoit-Jericho is an exception to the rule. If I considered it like my singles, I'd say 4 1/2 * maybe, I don't know.


Flair/Sting v. Muta/Dick Slater, Clash in 89
Pillman/Windham v. Steamboat/Douglas, Starrcade 92
HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho 4/24/00
Anderson/Zbyszko v. Steamboat/Rhodes, Clash in 91
Glacier/Mortis v. Wrath/The Cat, Bash at the Beach 97
Goldust/Booker T v. Jericho/Christian (one of October and another from December in 2002. All are good though.)
Christian/Kane v. Ezekiel Jackson/Regal, 1/19/10
Cena/Bourne v. Edge/Jericho, 5/17/10
Hollywood Blondes v. 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell 5/8/93
Steiners v. Gordy/Williams, Clash from 92
Anderson/Windham v. Doom, Starrcade 90
Rey/Batista v. MNM 12/16/05 (or 12/30 IDR which, just not the shitty cage match)
The Rockers v. Anderson/Blanchard 1/23/89
The Rockers v. Demolition 10/24/88
The Rockers v. Powers of Pain 1/15/90
Anderson/Blanchard v. Windham/Luger 4/20/88
Owen Hart/Yokozuna v. Bulldog/Luger, In Your House 1

Dunno what you're really into as far as companies/time/etc goes so I just went with WWE and WCW. Stuck to 2-on-2 matches as well because, well, that I don't know. Avoided matches that are long, too. I think. Off memory none of these are over 20 minutes (*he says as he deletes The Final Conflict and MX/Fantastics 4/26/88*)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Owen Hart/Yokozuna v. Bulldog/Luger, In Your House 1


Need to watch this TBH. Keep meaning to check out some Yoko/Owen tags again.



> Anderson/Blanchard v. Windham/Luger 4/20/88


That the one with the Barry turn?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'll just say one thing from what i have seen above

Glacier/Mortis v. Wrath/The Cat, Bash at the Beach 97 (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fun.As.Fuck


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Batman said:


> i could upload


Please <3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust (Main Event 03.18.2014)*

x5174ox
@Rah
@Diamond Taurus


----------



## Alee Enn (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually want to hear about the long legend of the traffic cone


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Batman said:


> That the one with the Barry turn?


It is, yeah.

Seabs is the champion of forever for discovering that BATB tag.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown was completely useless tonight aside from two pretty big announcements for Survivor Series. Kendrick vs. Kalisto for the CW Title and if Kalisto wins then the whole CW division comes to Smackdown. That's not happening but it should still be a good match if the crowd cares.

They kayfabe injured Corbin and announced that SHANE O'MAC is taking his place on Team SD, which imo is pretty fucking awesome. Can't wait to see the interactions he has with Owens/Reigns/Rollins. Have a feeling Smackdown might take this.

Tag Team SSeries match is New Day, Sheamus & Cesaro, Puerto Rican All Stars or whatever the fuck they're called, Enzo & Cass, & The Club vs. Usos, American Alpha, Slater & Rhyno, Hype Bros, & Breezeango. RAW seems to have an advantage here.

Women's match is Charlotte, Sasha, Nia Jax, Alicia Fox, & Bayley vs. Nikki, Becky, Naomi, Alexa, & Carmella. RAW's got that one too I think.

900th episode of Smackdown next week. Gonna be big. Return of The Undertaker, a Cutting Edge segment, and the (hopefully) final installment of Ziggler vs. Miz for the IC Title. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Flair/Sting v. Muta/Dick Slater, Clash in 89
> Pillman/Windham v. Steamboat/Douglas, Starrcade 92
> HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho 4/24/00
> Anderson/Zbyszko v. Steamboat/Rhodes, Clash in 91
> ...


In Your House 2 :cudi Watched it today for the first time in years.

Plus seeing those Rockers matches on there, you HAVE to include the Orient Express bout from RR '91.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Batman said:


> In Your House 2 :cudi Watched it today for the first time in years.
> 
> Plus seeing those Rockers matches on there, you HAVE to include the Orient Express bout from RR '91.


Wow I've been saying it's from IYH1 this whole time. Looking it up, it comes on right after the amazing Michaels/Jarrett match. Awesome.

I haven't seen Rockers/Orients since 2009, damn. I had to hold back on Rockers recs on that list as it is. Could've put about five more matches with Arn & Tully alone.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho 4/24/00 don't remember this so think i'll dig it out next. Sounds fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

just watched eddie/brock from NWO










:done

this fucking match gets better and better with every watch, the shit that they get through in this match is soooooooooo good. fantastic atmosphere too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Only watched the two segments to build Lesnar/Godlberg and the RAW vs. Smackdown Elimination Match but holy shit they were GREAT. So fucking hyped for Survivor Series this weekend. :mark:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I've been watching a bunch of post MX Bobby Eaton matches recently for a project and without trying too hard to state the obvious, Bobby Eaton was really fucking good. I've essentially just been watching pre and post Dangerous Alliance stuff too so it's very much the down years for Bobby and he's still really fucking good. Bobby being so good is pretty remarkable given his real lack of charisma and it just goes to show how great of a worker he was. Awesome offence, great bumper. There's a good handful of Bobby vs Flair tags from 91 while he was working the Arn and Flair programs that are super bossy TV tags and the in ring chemistry he and Flair have is great. I really have no idea where I am on Flair these days. The posts on here got me thinking about it more than I would have otherwise but I've never really watched enough Flair since to really contribute to it. Then as I was going through the Houston stuff there's some Flair matches on there that I watched and none of them did anything for me but I don't think they were down to Flair's faults. I mean they might have been but it's too small of a sample size and my gut reaction was that these were more matches I just didn't care for rather than being matches where I realised I was being turned off on Flair. 10 minute TV tags are obviously a different Flair entirely but he looks fantastic in all of them and like a wrestler more than worthy of the praise he gets.

Arn Anderson is really fucking good. As in I'm struggling to think of a reason to have someone else in my top 3 alongside Danielson and Lawler other than him. I spose the main argument against would be a lack of great singles bouts but that's not really true given that he actually does have a whole bunch of them, especially relative to the opportunities he got to have them. It's not really a knock when he smashed it out of the park when he pulled up to the line. Steve Austin is crazy good in 91 for like his second year in the biz. It sucks that the Eaton/Austin run only got the one TV match for the Title change and was robbed with that mess of a Scaffold match the Bash PPV. There's a very good handheld match from that run but I bet Eaton/Austin at the GAB show would have been great. Same goes for Dustin in terms of being crazy good a year into his run. It's pretty weird how many of the WCW debuted guys had their best years right at the start of their runs. Sting and Bagwell are the others I'm thinking of. I'd actually add Raven to that because he was great as Scotty Flamingo for that run but people like Raven for some reason so you know.

Post DA run there's still a whole bunch of really good Bobby tags. There's a few with Benoit. I was higher on Benoit in the 93 run with Eaton then I can remember being on him ever for his actual WCW run when I watched all the stuff for the WCW Poll. There's a tag between them 2 and the Nasty Boys which is way the fuck good and this has made me want to watch a ton of Nasty Boys stuff because they're way the fuck good too in this and the 2 Blue Bloods matches June 95. But then I try to think of great Nasty's stuff and I'm basically stuck at the Havoc 90 match and the Cactus matches. Am I missing some obvious stuff? I seem to recall a fun Hardcore match with Public Enemy one a WCW PPV. Did they do anything in WWF? The team with Regal is great of what I've seen so far which is basically up to the GAB match on the Regal set. I've gone way up on Regal from this. None of this stuff necessarily falls into the camp of great Regal matches bur he's such an awesome mid card character worker. I can't say it goes unnoticed, but maybe underappreciated just how great Regal's comedic timing is. Some of the faces he pulls after the Nasty's do the armpit spot are just other wordly. I think my main thing that brings me down on Regal from a ranking perspective is that he should have had more great stuff than he did and been a bigger serious wrestler than he was. In a sense you could add him to the list of guys whose best runs came at the start of their careers too. There's obviously plenty of great Regal matches in WWE too but if I'm doing a top 10 Regal matches I bet over half come from 93-94 WCW. Actually I watched the Regal/Hashimoto match on the Regal set too as it was in the middle of the Blue Bloods stuff and that match is really fucking good but it also really hammered home just how homogeneous modern wrestling is. I mean you'd never really get a WWE match worked like that anyway but you just don't get any sort of variety and even though we're in a "there's more wrestling content then ever before" era there's really not if you're not into the main highspots style. The Blue Bloods stuff isn't great wrestling per se but it's great at what it is and variety matches are badly missed. I spose they think a stupid Halloween themed prop show fills that need but it really doesn't. Anyway, Regal and the Nasty's are way the fuck good. Oh and them Regal/Eaton skits in England Hollywood. Good golly.

You know who else was way the fuck good? Steve Keirn in 1994. That guy ruled in 1994. He comes into team with Bobby and they basically try to do the MX routine but as TV jobbers without the Cornette shtick so it's obviously nowhere near as good but Keirn is just pulling heel tropes left, right and centre. They actually have a good run in 94 tbh. There's a duo of TV tags vs Arn/Steamboat which are really good. The first is good but just as it gets going the announcer calls for 60 seconds remaining and they're only like 5 minutes into the match and that would have been super sad times if I didn't know there was a rematch coming the week after. And fortunately the rematch is way the fuck good and super heated for a nothing TV match. They get lucky that they get a handful of TV tags that get really good time with guys like Arn/Dustin, Cactus/Sullivan and Bagwell/Patriot that all end up being really good tags. There's even an Eaton/Slater vs Simmons/JYD tag from 93 that is way the fuck better than it has any right to be.

TL: DR, Bobby Eaton was very good at this wrestling malark.*


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Ziggler/Miz - ***1/2

Could have been higher had it not had two adverts. Really good stuff


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm glad I popped back in here to read an entire post talking about BOBBY EATON.

like really, I smiled.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

(Audio uncensored.)

Goldberg Vs. Lesnar wasn't that bad of a match, but it gets hated on because of the New York crowd's reaction.

- Vic


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day 20 years ago, Team Mero defeated Team Helmsley in Rocky "The Rock" Maivia's debut and

Sid Vicious defeated Shawn Michaels to win the WWF Championship at Survivor Series 1996 from Madison Square Garden in New York, New York.

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm totally late too, but I'm gonna add it to the list of rec'd tag matches ^ b/c idk if I saw it:

Wrath & Mortis vs Faces of Fear - WCW: Fall Brawl 97

HOSS FIGHT. and it's right on par w/the excellent other, now semi well known among us, Wrath & Mortis tag from 97 vs Glacier/Cat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Jericho/Eddie vs Faces of Fear on that list? As it's also fun as fuck tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't see it on Jheri's. Which surprises me. But def toss that in too. One of the early highlights of WCW 97.

the big boot finish :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kayfabe Commentaries got a new series going called Supercard, where they do a similar format to the Timeline series but for just one big show. First one is WM2 with KING KONG BUNDY. Absolutely worth a watch if you are into these things .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bobby Roode vs. Tye Dillinger reminded me of why I used to like wrestling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bobby Roode vs. Tye Dillinger reminded me of why I used to like wrestling.


If there's another match at any point this weekend where the crowd is that hot then I will be SHOCKED. That was crazy.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

That Revival/DIY 2/3 falls match :banderas

Fantastic match with exciting action, good storytelling, clever callbacks, and just good all around tag team psychology. Definitely MOTN from the latest Takeover special.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Feels like the chance to see Joe vs Nakamura in an Ironman match is at its highest chance of happening. Plz do it. :mark:

JOE THE BEAST


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

anyone remember when Piper did a warm up training video leading up to his match with Hogan at Superbrawl? I'm sure it featured him squashing some power plant guys which included a bill goldberg months before he debuted. Just wondered if I'm right and which show it was on, as I don't think it was a Nitro tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> anyone remember when Piper did a warm up training video leading up to his match with Hogan at Superbrawl? I'm sure it featured him squashing some power plant guys which included a bill goldberg months before he debuted. Just wondered if I'm right and which show it was on, as I don't think it was a Nitro tbh.


Pretty sure it was a Nitro. I remember LUTHER REIGNS being one of the people .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, k. Ill have to go back and dig it out as I can remember a Piper work out video when I watched that time back not long ago, but don't remember seeing a glimpse of Goldberg.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Brock said:


> Ah, k. Ill have to go back and dig it out as I can remember a Piper work out video when I watched that time back not long ago, but don't remember seeing a glimpse of Goldberg.


It's not this you're looking for is it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erik. said:


> It's not this you're looking for is it?


Could have been. Is it that first guy with the ponytail supposed to he Bill? Not quite seeing the resemblance in his face, probably why I couldn't remember seeing him back when I watched that time not long ago.

Watching those reminded me how fucking painful that segment was when I watched Nitro 97 back. Piper


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Brock said:


> Could have been. Is it that first guy with the ponytail supposed to he Bill? Not quite seeing the resemblance in his face, probably why I couldn't remember seeing him back when I watched that time not long ago.
> 
> Watching those reminder me how fucking painful that segment was when I watched Nitro 97 back. Piper


I don't think Goldberg was any of them, I was doing a bit of reading online and can't really see anywhere Goldberg debuted before his actual squash match with Hugh Morrus. I think people may have confused him with Luther Reigns in all honesty.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erik. said:


> I don't think Goldberg was any of them, I was doing a bit of reading online and can't really see anywhere Goldberg debuted before his actual squash match with Hugh Morrus. I think people may have confused him with Luther Reigns in all honesty.


Yeah same here. I keep reading Goldberg was on TV before his September debut but can't see any concrete evidence of such tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That was Luther Reigns (Horshu) NOT Bill Goldberg

The only times that Goldberg appeared at a TV taping before his September debut was in dark matches against Morrus and Buddy Lee Parker. He had five matches before debuting, one being a loss to some jabroni called Chad Fortune.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y) Great info Rah, thx.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone else hyped for Survivor Series tonight? I don't have any idea if they can match Takeover but shit I'm looking forward to that RAW vs. Smackdown men's match, Miz vs. Sami, and Lesnar/Goldberg so much. Don't really remember being this hyped for Survivor Series going into it since maybe... 2007.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah I'm looking forward to it tbh, mainly for :goldberg vs :brock and the men's 5 on 5 match. 

Not expecting anything great out of Goldberg/Brock but I hope Bill does well and comes out if it ok and looking as good as he can at this stage. Interested in the main elimination match and see how it plays out and what develops going forward onto tomorrow's Raw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I shall actually watch Goldberg Vs Lesnar. I'm interested to see just what they'll actually do.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

_#DIY vs The Revival (WWE NXT Takeover Toronto)_ ******* 
Tag team MOTY, by far, no matter what company we are talking about. Normally I don't use this phrase, but damn, this was an Instant Classic. The Revival is the best tag team on professional wrestling at the moment, all of their big matches have been great since winning the titles the 1st time (vs Enzo/Cass at London & Roadblock, vs AA at Dallas & The End; and vs #DIY at Brooklyn & Toronto), even their TV matches have been very good (vs AA 2-3 falls, vs 100 & Cedric, etc). Gargano is the best babyface in the entire company (aside from Sami Zayn) and Ciampa is one of the most intense guys on WWE, reminds me of Chris Benoit in that sense (speaking on his intensity in the ring, mind you). All 4 guys did their job flawlessly. I will go as far to say that this FIGHT was one of the best matches I've ever seen, and one of the best in the history of the company. Probably top 5 tag team matches ever. The psychology, the crowd, the intensity, wow...not ONE dull moment at all. 

You can say I'm doing a blowjob to this match the way I'm talking about it. But it is that DAMN good and it's a match that I'll have no problem in showing to people that I know that don't know anything about professional wrestling at all.

Top guys.

_Samoa Joe is Godzilla_ (vs Shinsuke Nakamura at WWE NXT Takeover Toronto) 
Performance from Samoa Joe -> *******
Match -> ****3/4*
Nakamura is just phoning it in. His last great match was against Sami, and his last good to great match was against Aries. His matches against Joe have been a letdown. But Joe, ever since his fight against Bálor at Dallas, has been on a path of destruction. This guy deserves to be on the main roster NOW, even if he won the NXT title again. I can't wait for HOSS battles against Strowman or Lesnar. As much as I like SDL, I kind of want Joe on Raw. Reigns/Joe is sort of a dream match for me (yeah, whatever, it's my opinion). JOE IS GONNA KILL YOU MOTHERFUCKER!

BTW, bring Mickie James to the Main Roster. She could be useful.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Feels like the chance to see Joe vs Nakamura in an Ironman match is at its highest chance of happening. Plz do it. :mark:
> 
> JOE THE BEAST


Don't necessarily know what they're filming for, but this coming up in a few weeks:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Roode/Dillinger I didn't think was that good tbh. Decent match but there were more moments when I thought this isn't that good than this is pretty good. Well tbh there were zero moments when I was thinking the later but it wasn't overall not good. It was just there. Didn't think Tye looked half as good here as he has in the debut "squashes". Squashes in inverts because the guy going over spends 80% of the match selling. Roode's good in the ring but he feels below the standard that's been set atm. They should have just hotshotted him onto the main roster when the entrance took off because that won't be white hot forever. Assuming the entrance gets over on the main roster he's a hot babyface turn just waiting to happen. 

AoP/TM61 wasn't that good either. For those who haven't seen it watch AoP/DIY from the TV a couple of weeks ago because that match ruled and make Authors my new favourite act. Between that match and the Jose/Swann match they've looked like a really serviceable monster team with great offence. TM61 suck. Senton spot was cool and the setup was so preposterous that I dug it. Not sure why they blew their load on the Ellering Cage gimmick this soon. Chain spot was either terrible or went wrong. I HATED TM61 tossing Authors around like they're Cruiserweight guys. Like caps lock worthy HATED it. Them 2 should barely be bumping at all let alone taking suplexes and slams off 2 guys who look like TM61 do. AoP/DIY is the future I spose which based off their TV match I'm excited for. They're in a tough spot though because The Revival have set a standard for NXT tags now and nobody will be able to live up to them. 

Thought this was their best match yet against anyone. They've knocked it out of the park everytime against these and Alpha. The Enzo/Cass matches were really good too and by far the best matches that team has ever had but ever since then they've kicked into a godly tier. When you watch 80s tags one of the constant takeaways from them for me is god imagine if you transition the first 2/3rds of these matches with the final third of these modern matches and The Revival are exactly that. Incredible finishing stretches but with all the ground work to make them work. Plus having 4 guys to transition in and out helps with the finishing stretch not going into overkill every single time. 1st fall was decent but it really kicked up a gear in the 2nd when The Revival started working their match. Finish to the 1st ruled btw. Also they did an excellent job at structuring a 2/3 match which is so often an issue but for once there were no issues with the 2/3 format being hoaky. I could type for the next hour about the 3rd fall but basically everything they did was amazing. There was a sequence just before the very end that halted their momentum a bit and the ref stopping counting because I assumed Dawson wasn't the legal man didn't come off very well. But aside from that everything ruled. MOTY for me. Also have to give credit to Gargano and Ciampa who have done a great job getting themselves over as a team to someone who had no interest at all in them. I still don't want to see them in singles but they've created added value together as a team and Gargano's become a very sympathetic babyface. The Revival though. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeez. 

Asuka/Mickie was good. Not crazy about how much they gave Mickie given her status, especially in comparison to how much they ever gave Nia and Bayley against Asuka. They should have saved the someone pushing Asuka further than she's ever been pushed before for someone who can benefit from it while still saving the Asuka loss. 

Joe/Nakamura was good and better than Brooklyn but still felt like a disappointment relative to who's in the ring. I'm not sure if it's a case of them not clicking or what. This is their second match now where the crowd are hot at the start and are just kinda sitting there taking it in during the bulk of the match before they get back up to pop for the highspots. Nakamura not selling leg work is far from a new issue with him but it's becoming an all too regular one in NXT and hurt this match for sure. He either needs to start putting forth an effort to sell the leg work or the guys putting these matches together need to be smarter to recognise the issue and not have his opponents work over his legs. I'm starting to wonder if our perception of what Jose is/should be/could be is starting to cloud over vision of what the reality is. I mean his performance in Dallas was great but that's now the anomaly. That said Balor and Nakamura haven't super brought it as opponents against him. Nakamura dropping the belt back to Joe was surprising. You'd think it's because Nakamura is going up but then it leaves the vanity project really lacking drawing power with nobody major incoming and they've been struggling selling these larger venues recently. I'd go more towards they're just prolonging running Nakamura/Joe like they did Balor/Joe because there's really nobody else for either. I'm assuming that Itami getting injured again maybe caused this. 

The Revival have been the difference between the last 3 Takeover's being great shows rather than good shows.*


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT Takeover: Toronto 2016*

Bobby Roode vs Tye Dillinger **

*Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic Final*
The Authors of Pain (Akam & Rezar) vs TM61 (Shane Thorne & Nick Miller) *3/4

*NXT Tag Team Championship - 2 Out of 3 Falls Match*
The Revival (c) vs Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa ***3/4

*NXT Women's Championship*
Asuka (c) vs Mickie James **

*NXT Championship*
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs Samoa Joe ***

Overall Rating: 6.0


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh at the Cage match. Seems lazy w/them just doing it earlier this year. Wanted to see Nakamura and Joe kill each other for thirty minutes instead of twenty. Boourns. 

Bummers all around going from the perfection of Brooklyn II to the ultra mediocrity of last night. Joe vs Nakamura excluded. Well, and The Revival singularly but they're gods, even when their matches leave me lukewarm I still have to be impressed w/them. I just absolutely fear for their careers now that they're kind of left w/nothing to do. ffs at any main roster idea of them being able to work like this on PPV or TV.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

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----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

MINUS FIVE STARS


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

That was the greatest main event in the history of our sport :sodone :sodone :sodone

This match >>>>>>>>>>> The Wrestlemania XX match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Please let this be the end of Brock's career. Good riddance to bad rubbish!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jesus Christ guys how bad was it?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Jesus Christ guys how bad was it?


It was 90 seconds.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I just found and watched the whole thing on youtube. Unbelievable. 

Some people in the video's comments are all like "yeaaa right 'full match' vid's only 3 minutes." :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao :lmao


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

GOLDBERG :mark: :mark:


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I'm waiting for news of a Network exclusive any minute now of Goldberg fucking the shit outta Sable. After this I really believe they're gonna (jack)hammer it all the way home :goldberg


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well I had high hopes for that show and in typical WWE fashion, the booking rears its ugly heads and ruins most of the night, although I did enjoy a good share of the matches.

The women's match was rather sloppy and felt rushed. Didn't mind Natalya being put in for the cheap Canadian pop, but Sasha being such an afterthought was really strange. Nia Jax tapping out was also pretty ridiculous. At least Strowman got a protected finish later. I just saw the show and honestly don't even remember what the finish was. :lol

Miz vs. Sami was a _really_ good match marred by a somewhat shitty finish. It was just more confusing than anything, although I understand the cleverness behind it. Before that though I was really getting into it and figure four segments were fantastic. *** 1/2

Boy I thought the tag team match was gonna go completely in the shitter once New Day was out immediately, but after a few minutes of nothing to note, they got those dives started and things got pretty god damn good with the Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Usos matchup. I really believed a good bit of those false finishes. Great stuff for the last 10 minutes or so. *** 1/2

Baron fucking Corbin coming down to ruin a match where there's quite a bit at stake and both guys went out and busted their ass by bumping like maniacs should probably show you how much the WWE values the cruiserweights. Just give them their own show and take them off the main roster. I could see this leading to a trade that sends Corbin to RAW and gets Sami on SD though.

That men's elimination match was seriously so much fucking fun. Aside from the one down note of Owens getting DQed and being overshadowed by Reigns getting to the end, the match was pretty great imo with so much going on. Yeah there were some sloppiness but there's just SO much to see and remember that will stick with me for a while. Shane bumping like a mania as usual and that insane spear he took, another hilarious Ellsworth moment, AJ bringing the usual tenacity, SHIELD reuniting, Orton RKOing people outta nowhere, and Wyatt FINALLY winning something of meaning! Marked out like a son of a bitch at the finish. Very unexpected and had a really good time for most of the 52 minutes. ****

I don't even know what to say about Goldberg and Lesnar. I've talked about it so much with my friends that I'm just ready to move on. That was dumb.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Still better than WM 20.


----------



## _Chitown_312$ (Aug 26, 2016)

I just booked my WM 33 trip and have no desire to see Brock/Goldberg again ? fuck man. I know for a fact they are gonna go with it again too. 

The Raw/SD 5 on 5 match was fun as fuck though. Great stuff there. ****


SIDENOTE: Did you guys notice Brock looked out of shape last night?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

_Chitown_312$ said:


> SIDENOTE: Did you guys notice Brock looked out of shape last night?


How could you tell in that short period of time? :lol I imagine Lesnar didn't do a whole lot to prepare once he knew he wasn't going to have to do anything except stand there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sold like a champ tho


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

on a positive note, Randy Orton is so fucking phenomenal. Stole the show last night. He's amazing. It's not even fair how good he is when he doesn't give a damn, let alone how great he is when he does give a damn.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Worst PPV since Summerslam. The big four PPV'S have pretty much been the worst four this year minus Fast Lane.

Team Raw/Team SD - ***3/4
Miz/Zayn - ***

Revival/GarganoCiampa - ****1/2
Dillinger/Rude - ***3/4
Nakamura/Joe - ***

Made the mistake of watching Takeover directly before Surivor Series. Then Meltzer spoiled the result of the Goldberg match for me by tweeting the bookies late bets for Goldberg. Bad night. NXT was great.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Remember when Brock beat 'Taker and everyone was having a tantrum because the plan was to use Brock's momentum to cement Roman?

:goldberg


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

This is still me :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## xNECROx (Dec 16, 2014)

Lol Vince is still punishing Lana and Rusev .... Vindictive old man


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Womens Survivor Series match wasn’t up to much. It got plenty of time but also never actually enough time to do anything with any of the pairings. They basically just rushed through to the final fall and even then that was short on time. Everything was basically just there. They’ve really cooled Sasha right off. These matches need clean falls against the bigger names but Sasha’s fall should have been protected a lot more than just getting rolled up by Natalya of all people. Give Alexa the minor rub there. Nia continuing the story that I’m the only the one reading off her dominating but continuing to fall into traps which quickly lead to going down (which is usually getting caught in a submission and tapping) made me smile. I’m assuming she works Sasha for a while now which lends itself perfectly to continuation of that (not-a-)story. Becky/Bayley at the end didn’t get the time to be what they clearly wanted it to be. The right women survived.

Miz/Zayn was very good. Miz delivered again. This was a decent match considerably bumped up by the leg work. Take note Shinsuke. I’d be totally fine with Zayn just selling a lingering leg injury for the next year he’s so great at it. Kinda like how Cesaro was selling the arm every match earlier in the year after coming back from surgery. They worked the Figure Four spot really well between them. That finish isn’t great but if you’re doing it then it was done well. Works with the Miz/Maryse dynamic, Zayn didn’t look completely stupid by thinking Miz had tapped out of his sight in that position and it gives the Miz/Bryan feud easy material to work off with Bryan and SD benefiting from Miz’s cheating. I enjoyed this infinitely more than I would have if this was Ziggler/Zayn. 

Tag Teams Survivor Series match was good. It was frankly terrible until Hype Bros went out. Not sure what FaBreeze have turned into but it’s terrible and not in a heel stooge terrible way. I’ve done a good job avoiding Mojo all together but his minute spell on offence was as bad as whatever Fandango was doing at the start of the match. New Day going so early was good. They don’t need to survive here and you may as well eliminate them in a way that gets a nice pop. Primo and Epico getting an extended shine period in this of all matches was really weird. Cesaro/Sheamus and The Usos had a really great mini match for the final fall that was everything you want from a short tag sprint. Usos got put over really strong here which is nice but they’ve spent the last few months being jobbed out on PPVs to comedy teams in Fandango/Breeze and Slater/Rhyno. 

SD’s direction with the Tag division is pretty clear. Give Slater/Rhyno the short babyface reign to kill time before you run Usos/Alpha into Mania because that’s literally your only pairing of any value. Usos looking strong here I assume means they get the belts a couple of months later than they should have done and you then restart pushing Alpha to the top again and have their big Title win at Mania. Which on paper is actually really good but the execution hasn’t been. They’ve pissed all over what momentum Alpha had coming out of NXT and done nothing to get them over to the new audience. Waiting is good but you need to be pushing them while you wait and keeping them strong in preparation for that Mania moment. Instead they’ve just done nothing at all. This was the perfect opportunity to put a ton of shine on them without winning the belts too soon. Everything that The Usos did here should have been what Alpha got to do. And they should have gone over too. That was where the biggest rub was. Instead they got some very minor shine and went out early leaving The Usos to play the babyfaces fighting against the odds. 

Which brand reigns supreme means fuck all to anyone outside WWE’s bubble but you’d think they’d at least have it 1-1 going into the rubber right? Instead I spose we got classic 50-50 booking yet again even in an odd numbered series where Raw wins the series but SD wins the big one. In other words, nobody won besides the individual acts who survived. 

I really hope the 10 shtick over count outs doesn’t catch on elsewhere.

Kendrick/Kallisto was decent but jesus the crowds are just all time levels of silent for these Kendrick matches. Everything he does on paper is really good but it doesn’t work at getting a dead crowd up and it isn’t anywhere near as effective as a heel on top compared to busting out all these spots as the scrappy desperate underdog. Because all these wiley veteran spots are perfect scrappy hope spots. At the risk of sounding like a broken record I’m just dumbfounded that they took Kendrick from the CWC who was the best babyface act in forever and made him a heel that can’t get any sort of reaction at all. In an era of nonstop highspots running rampant through nearly every match, the Cruiserweights being the ones to work the most dumbed down safest style is quite incredible. The only time the crowd came alive was for the Spanish Fly spot which is what a division like this should be. You have a bunch of new athletic guys that you need to get over all at once, well the easiest way is to send them out there and do a bunch of nutty spots. Bully Choke spot was worked really well. Finish is what it is. Shoutout to Corbin working through an injury that took him off the show to appear on the show. I spose you get more coming out of this match with that finish (Kallisto/Corbin has an edge to it now and you have easy material between Bryan and Corbin) than you do Kendrick just beating Kallisto. The Cruiserweights are still yet to have a match that universally breaks the *** barrier.

The final 5-on-5 was a weird case of a WWE match being extremely well booked but actually let down by the action. Everything in between the falls was just there but they booked the falls really well. Strowman looked really good in this. Well aside from the AJ spot which gave the Cesaro botched dive a good run for scariest spot of the year. Which in this type of match is very achievable but it’s also kinda like where is the end game with him? You build him up to feed to one of your top babyfaces but the top babyface overcoming the monster heel in a subpar match isn’t really a successful formula anymore. And after that WWE have barely ever given any of them monster heels much of anything after their initial run. His best hope is that he can do comedy and that gives him longevity in between the periods where Vince decides to do the monster push again. His elimination was pretty much perfect. You get in your Shane highspot (which is always a good spot) and the extra touch of having get up and about to make it back in before for 10 was great. The Ellsworth addition was great too. Short of being the sole survivor and beating the entire team himself they couldn’t have put Strowman over any better than this. Ellsworth feels like an in joke that I’m not a part of but this was a good minimalistic use of him. 

Owens and Jericho eliminations worked for adding towards their teased breakup. Sure Owens should be put over better but they’re not booking him as that type of Champion so why start here. What I liked about a lot of the booking on this show is that every finish advanced something. Sure in isolation Owens’ elimination could be seen as daft if you have this false image of Owens being Brock-lite but they’re building towards a program that’s comedy first, heat second so that finish worked. 

The AJ/Ambrose stuff worked to get them both out while being protected and also sets both of them up for something with Taker. Ambrose was set up for that harder than AJ was but I’m not sure where they fit that in for Taker. Cena’s almost 100% challenging for the Title at Mania, it’s just a question of if the champ is AJ or Taker. I’m leaning Taker given that he’s back early. They can do Cena/AJ on any show and have already gone to it, Cena/Taker is more of a Mania spectacle. Putting the Title on it kills some of the suspense of who wins but if it was Cena/AJ I don’t think that wouldn’t be an issue there either. So my guess is Taker/AJ at Rumble and Cena earns a Title shot at the Feb PPV with Balor getting the Rumble win and essentially getting every rub he can be given by time Mania is over by which point he’ll likely still be in single figures for matches on the main roster. But he won’t be overpushed….

Shane/Reigns spot was great. I get why people hate the concept of Shane in these matches but tbh he’s got a bunch of in ring experience at this point now and doesn’t really get much offence in besides his big daredevil spots. Those punches looked awful but if you have Shane in there isn’t it better for him to be throwing these awful punches that look like a non-wrestler trying to play wrestler? And also at people arguing against Shane’s involvement, he was the most over babyface in that match. Actually, he was basically the only actual star in that match. Sure you have guys like AJ, Ambrose and Owens who are popular but they’re not OVER. Jericho more so but it’s more his comedy shtick than Jericho the wrestler. People enjoy them and find them entertaining but none of them are needle movers that have fans wanting to see them win or lose. So there’s a real argument to be made for Shane being the most over guy in the match and the biggest actual star in the match. Which considering that they pretty much put all of their top full time guys in this match is worrying. Not at all striking or revealing though. 

Shield reunion spot I popped for which I don’t do very often. Teasing it with just Reigns and Rollins and then getting Ambrose in the mix was neat and they let it breathe long enough for you to anticipate it and then when Reigns and Rollins freed Ambrose it came off really well. I was worried when it came down to Rollins/Reigns that they’d put them 2 over strong and the crowd would just totally reject it. Wyatt’s going over was a surprise. It’s good that they put a different act over strong for a change but Bray’s been so damaged by year after year of the reverse that it’s a case of too little too late. JBL completely blowing the call at the end followed a super awkward 5 seconds of silence ruled. You had one job John. To his credit though I did enjoy his call when Ambrose was screwing AJ out of the match. But he’s doing the big sell to put over Smackdown vs Raw rather than AJ vs Ambrose so you know. They did this terrible Smackdown vs Raw thing that nobody cared about in order to get literally nobody over. Not even Stephanie or Shane because neither of them were presented as winners. 

Goldberg/Brock was a spectacle. I don’t watch live and my file had about 10 minutes left to run as Brock came out so I knew this was going to be really short but based on that I figured Brock was just squashing Goldberg, definitely not vice-versa. Putting my logic hat on with my business pants this didn’t make much sense. Building Brock up like they did for this would be awesome if Goldberg was someone who they could build off of week after week for years to come but he’s not. That said though, there’s not an obvious alternative to put in Goldberg’s position instead of him. Definitely nobody on the current roster because we saw in the previous match that none of them are stars. Maybe Joe but eh I don’t think so. And they don’t see him as being a top guy because he’s clearly been brought in to booster the vanity project before anything else. Shinsuke is the only semi realistic alternative and I suppose is a better alternative than Goldberg but he can still beat Brock later down the line in a longer match where he gets a different type of rub from beating Brock. 

I mean sure, that’s what they SHOULD have done but what we did get was great and I’m not turning my nose up at WWE delivering a great moment and building a big marquee match up to have a definitive winner. The good guy even won! It’s easy to look at the value they flushed with beating Brock here but they should also gain some much needed value for the brand. It’s created buzz, Goldberg’s a bigger asset going into Mania season than anyone’s been since probably Brock returned for all of a month before the Hunter feud killed that off, and they also gained some much needed faith with viewers that if they hype up a massive main event match they’re gonna deliver something big and buzz worthy on the execution of it. And that’s not something that they usually do. How often do they have a match like this and has some daft overbooked finish where there’s no decisive winner and nobody really gets over. If Goldberg is working up to Mania now as it seems then that should make the decision sting less and make more sense. Ignore the part about it should have been someone else for a second. It seems inevitable that Lesnar attacks Goldberg at the Rumble and they rematch at Mania. The rematch is bigger than the Survivor Series match now because of this. Theoretically they now have a major marquee match for Mania that will have a great build going into the event. If Brock wins then you can’t rematch or if you do it doesn’t mean more than the original did. 

I think everyone really overstates the value in Brock too. He’s not a massive needle mover. He shows up on Raw and ratings don’t change. Using him for a single show doesn’t have a big revenue boost with the Network model now taking over and as far as I’m aware they’re not selling out bigger venues with him on shows than they would be otherwise. He definitely WAS a major star when he first returned but frankly that died in less than a year and any drawing ability he had to an audience that weren’t watching WWE anyway was killed with the Hunter feud where he went back to playing pro wrestler again and trading loses. Everyone always plays up the rub of beating Brock and yes beating Brock means more than beating anyone else but without that crossover audience tuning in you’re not really elevating anyone to new heights if you’re not growing your audience. And granted that’s just a fraction of a much bigger problem but I just want to put it out there that beating Brock will make someone an instant megastar is becoming more and more myth than reality the further we go on. 

And once the decision is made to put Goldberg over this was exactly the right way to do it. Winning in a back and forth traditionally structured match doesn’t create half the buzz that this did. Fact, this got people talking and you can be outside the WWE bubble and know exactly what went down. Also this was being sold on the spectacle a lot more so than delivering on match quality. Ok you might have some fans who feel robbed that they didn’t get more of a match but they’ll be far outnumbered by the fans who came out of this show buzzing and the people who didn’t watch the show but are now intrigued into tuning into to see what’s next for Goldberg. And you’ll get the back and forth “epic” at Mania! Moments are more important than match quality. Rousey ending fights in seconds rather than having “a proper match” boosted business much more than her going the distance would have and assuming you save this for once in a blue moon it’s no different. 

I can get why people would shit on the show. Whatever closes a show often decides overall perceptions of a show and I can totally get why people would be pissed at how Lesnar/Goldberg ended. Personally I thought it was a great spectacle and the buzz I felt coming out of it far outweighed the undeniable booking issues. While nothing on the show was great, all the matches were at least decent and this was a very well booked show that nicely advanced pretty much everything that it needed to. *


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching Goldberg's WCW Career Comp over the last few days, up until his match with Brad Armstrong at Superbrawl 8










































:goldberg


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldberg's would maybe be the most fun full career to watch of any wrestler. And it'd take you only like 4 hours.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

He did have some fucking good shit TBH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:goldberg

Up until Spring Stampede 1998 now.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Goldberg's gorilla press spinebuster is my favourite move of his, definitely.

I would LOVE for Strowman to adopt some of the moves in that video posted above, especially that gorilla press spinebuster because he has the legit strength to hit that on some guys and amaze people.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Anyone know where I can find Impact episodes from like, 2008? Can't even find them on XWT. unk3

Edit: 5,000th post :fuckyeah


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*GOLDBERG IS UNITED STATES CHAMPION*

:goldberg

I'd recommend Saturn/Goldberg from Spring Stampede too, Saturn was a good match up for Bill, TBH.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I've also been on a Goldberg binge since Survivor Series. I mean, how could you not? :mark: Two of my favourite matches of his:



*Goldberg vs DDP - WCW World Heavyweight Championship 

Halloween Havoc 98*

Page's rough exaggerated bumping for simple offence makes Goldberg look a million dollars. You see this type of bumping a lot in modern WWE where it looks silly because more often than not neither guy is a powerhouse (example: Ziggler against 5'10 skinny geeks in kick pads), but it absolutely works here with Page being built so slight and Bill as the proverbial brick outhouse, displaying the type of explosiveness that might occur in said restroom after consuming an undercooked lamb bhuna. Page doesn't look like a geek for it and it feels like a real believable struggle rather than a performance. 

A stiff shoulder barge forces Page to bump out of the ring in said manner. He takes his time to gather his belongings, in this case being his bollocks, pacing around the ring before even contemplating locking up again, perfectly conveying how this is da man's ring and that this is the biggest test Page has or will ever likely face. A cheeky telegraphed diamond cutter will not cut it. This is the big leagues now.

Page is outmatched for power so he tries to out wrestle Goldberg with a chain wrestling reversal via a drop toe hold. Again it's to no avail, as Goldberg is just too strong. You can't out muscle him or out wrestle him, so you had better hope for a lucky break and they really promote that concept in this match. 

First of all Page capitalises on Goldberg being impatient with his best pisshead falling out of a nightclub impressions, nailing him with a guillotine on the top rope, before rushing through a desperate sequence of quick fire moves for a two count.

Goldberg soon gets back on top and starts to take control with some incredibly slick power moves, before Page receives lucky break number two when dodging a spear in the corner that leads to Goldberg colliding with the ring post. Credit to Schiavone and an at that point sadly washed up Bobby Heenan for actually putting over the importance of that moment for Page.

Great work building up to the major diamond cutter hope spot, with Goldberg hurting his shoulder with an actually successful spear, before failing to achieve a jackhammer (I doubt Page ever had this issue with Kim) despite two attempts. The reversal into the diamond cutter is a thing of beauty and more than worthy of the pop it garners.

Page holds off from covering to expertly build crowd anticipation over the streak potentially ending. Goldberg kicking out on two seemed premature, limiting a potentially insane pop to just a great one. However, I doubt Kevin Sullivan would have wanted his pet project looking that beatable at that stage anyway. Goldberg quickly takes the match home with a successful jackhammer, while the crowd is at its hottest. The match ends as it peaks, which is the way it should be.

This was a great example of how to put over a very limited worker and make him look a million bucks in a main event match, while sticking to a very basic structure and not relying on a cavalcade of complicated or contrived spots. Page told his own great story of being the weaker underdog everyman with an equal heart, trying to find a lucky break to cause a massive upset, while Goldberg showed some vulnerability by selling shoulder damage, before overcoming the weakness and looking heroic for it. One man wins but both men get much more over, which should be no surprise when selfless ring general Page is involved. That's how you work a great babyface match.




*Goldberg vs Sid - U.S Heavyweight Championship 

Halloween Havoc 99*

I'm fairly sure I've read people say this is a bad match before for reasons I don't understand. Fuck those people, this is terrific!

What I love about this is that it feels like a legitimate big time fight, with the only thing that's even remotely close to it in modern times (as in not really that much but you get my point) being Brock vs Cena ER. The match was built as a big deal between an unstoppable force vs an immovable object, enhanced by hatred that was fuelled by Goldberg not being allowed to physically interact with Sid in the build up angle, where the latter pulled off the usual dastardly heel antics in that type of situation. Thankfully they gave us the war that this needed to be.

Besides the outsiders run in on Goldberg before the bell sounds, there are no distractions and we're given an honest slugfest. If anything this minor distraction gave Sid a good excuse to get on top first and gain a little heat, without looking the stronger man, which would have been counterproductive as Sid's streak was a device to re-heat Goldberg as the potential face of the company. 

Thankfully there's no bullshit feeling out stage to negate the war time feel. The scrapping at ring side is better than a lot of the half hearted phoned in attitude era "you take a turn, I take a turn" shite that was being provided during that time. Goldberg dominates and this never comes across as anything less than a massive struggle for Sid, who puts this over the top by providing a fantastic looking juice job from a pre-existing wound after Berg rams his face into the steel steps. 

Goldberg actually works the crowd and asks them how they feel about the sight of Sid looking like a discarded sanitary towel. I guess Goldberg didn't really do a lot of complicated spots (particularly in this match which is a blessing) so had the time to consider involving the audience instead of worrying about what sequence to perform next. Funny that he's the biggest current star in WWE after a 12 year hiatus, rather than some Abercrombie and Fitch Catherine wheel looking emotionless dork, despite this being a supposed workrate era...

On the subject of taking a dig at modern wrestling, member when wrestling crowds used to react to what was happening in a match instead of entertaining themselves with dumb irrelevant chants? Ooohhhh I member! If you want a comparative reminder of why a lot of modern wrestling audiences suck then watch this match for the Sid camel clutch into a Goldberg electric chair spot. The fans root for the babyface, loudly chanting "Goldberg", before going banana when he breaks out. For a fucking camel clutch spot. That's not praising that crowd, it's just how it's supposed to be. If this match took place in front of an Nxt crowd we would have heard "wipe your face" chants for Sid or some other smug self satisfied sniffing their own farts nonsense. 

Goldberg carries on dominating by doing to Sid what I would like to do to some of those aforementioned fans, throwing stiff shots at the gushing wound and even grinding his knuckles into it. The blood coats his hand and PISSES him off! so much, that Sid finds a way back in as Bill wonders off to the kitchen to find some carex. Much like a Goldberg match, it doesn't last long before Sid is forced into the corner for a blood donation. "That's what you want?!" You read my mind sir :quite At this point Sid's head looks like left over spaghetti bolognese that has been thrown in the bin. He makes one more comeback via a flurry of strikes before the ref calls for a stoppage, due to an amount of blood that has only since been seen inside of Vedran Corluka's collection of hats.

A perfectly booked finish to suit the occasion, which put Goldberg over as the man, protected Sid, allowed him the opportunity to later on give someone else (who must not be named) a strong rub and leaves something on the table for a re-match. The crowd also absolutely lapped this up as if the sight of Sid's spag bol had them work up an appetite. It can't be understated how impressive that feat was after the crowd killing nonsense between Sting and Hogan. This IS pro graps, even though there were fuck all wrestling moves involved. FIGHT!!!





P.S. I wouldn't mind reading a review for Goldberg vs Steiner Fall Brawl 2000 (HINT HINT). I Cba to write any more and yeah fuck writing about Vince Russo, especially after he gave me brain damage after I re-watched late 99 WCW a few months ago.

:woytf :wtf2 :walphtf


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think I've ever actually watched the Sid matches tbh, so I'm looking forward to getting there on my Bill binge. That write up has certainly wetted my appetite.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sid bleeds like a motherfucker in that Goldberg match. That's what happens when a doctor cuts you open before the match, then closes it up in a way it can be easily opened up again when needed to during the match lol.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*In fairness to NXT crowds they haven't started cheering for The Revival yet. I still think that if you book acts the right way and pair them up smartly you can get crowds to boo heels and cheer faces. It's harder than ever but the attempts at it are also worse than ever and only causing the this is awesome era to grow stronger and stronger. When WWE book well they still get the desired reactions. See stuff like The Shield's run, Sasha/Bayley, Goldberg's return and Charlotte and The Revival. Fans are less accepting of just going along with the stories being told to them but WWE are also terrible at reacting to this and alligning and booking characters in effective ways. They do suck but WWE have brought this culture on a lot themselves with terrible booking and promoting crowd hijacks so much. 

Those 3 Goldberg matches are all great and more than sufficient proof to debunk the myth that he could only work sub 5 minute matches. You don't want him working a HHH style main event match because that exposes all hos limitations but matches like the Page one great main events where didn't feel slighted at it being the show closer. WWE would benefit so much from working a main event every now and again as a 10 minute war/sprint. But instead everyone has to adapt to working the exact same match 350 days a year. I think it was the Page match but I'm not sure that has some brilliant leg selling by Goldberg too. You don't want Goldberg selling for an extended period of time like would fit the traditional shine-control-comeback (or as it is in modern times control-comeback-highspots) formula but at the same time the idea that he couldn't sell period is another myth that gets believed based on repetition and little else. 

That Goldberg/Raven match is one of my favourite ever too and one of the matches I'd show a non fan to show why I love pro wrestling. *


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

FUN match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/800694459071660032


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Brock said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/800694459071660032


Video just highlights the difference in playing college football and not - Lesnar is quite frankly embarrassing :lol


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Okay, so I decided that I'm going to give my own personal analysis of the five star matches WWE has had according to Dave Meltzer, and give my own opinion of whether or not they are Five Star worthy or not.

So, the first match I decided to do was the first ever Hell in a Cell match between Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker. 
*
Bad Blood 1997: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker. * 

Does it deserve the five stars? Yes.

Why: Quite frankly, to someone watching this kind of wrestling back in the day for the first time wouldn't really understand what makes this match so perfect. When looking at it without context in regards to the build up and being used to the in ring style of today, a fan might think that this was a slow, one sided spotfest with no clear intention on either person's part to win the actual match.

It makes me sad to watch this match knowing what Hell in a Cell has become today. I said before that Edge/Taker was the last truly great Hell in a Cell match and I stand by that statement because that match, as well as this one, defined what Hell in a Cell is truly all about. Survival. 

On one hand, you had the Undertaker who was lust for revenge. On the other, you had Shawn Michaels who was simply trying to survive. That's the story that should be told in this match and that's exactly what they did. 

For the first ten or so minutes, it was pretty much all Undertaker. Granted, Michaels had a few shots in here and there (and he was constantly being a dick to the camera men, which provided some brief hilarity), but otherwise, Undertaker was dominating. Michaels was finally able to gain the advantage and his offense was a thing of beauty. Diving through the ropes at Taker, piledriving him on the steps, climbing the cage so he had a higher vantage point to perform a diving elbow on Taker, etc. Pretty much everything Michaels did when he was on the offensive made sense, and it looked impactful. But what I liked the most is that when ever he did something, there was always a sense of desperation on his part. Yes, he had the advantage, but you always felt like he was in survival mode. Maybe it was just by design, I don't know, but either way, it made the match work. 

Pretty soon, Taker took the advantage, but Michaels would take it right back from him and at this point Michaels was in full control. Now remember that whole thing about Michaels being a dick to the camera men earlier? In all honesty, I think that was on purpose, because now all of a sudden, Michaels found himself beating the shit out of one of the camera men. This would all be by design, and it would be done beautifully. 

So Michaels continues to dominate Undertaker, while the camera guy is being attended to. Eventually, Michaels hits Sweet Chin Music on the Undertaker. And almost immediately, we witness one of the most legendary moments in the history of the WWF. Undertaker sits right back up, scaring Michaels to the point where he tries to leave the match. Remember that camera guy who was being checked on? Well, they had to open the HIAC door in order to do this, so Michaels tries to leave through that door, but Taker is able to catch him. After a few attempts at getting Taker away from him, even going as far as to dropkick Taker into the cell, Taker catches Michaels and uses the cell to bust him open. Eventually, Michaels climbs to the top, Taker chases him, and body slams him a few times on the top of the cell (as well as another famous moment where a bloodied Michael's head is being smashed down against the cell and ran across it like a cheese grater while the camera from below captures all of it). Michaels continues to try to escape, this time going down the other side of the cell. Taker stops him as he begins the climbing process, and eventually stomps on Michael's hand that is holding him from falling down. Now remember all those classic moments of people falling off the cell and into the announcers table? This is where it truly all began, and this is probably the most unexpected one (apart from Foley's infamous fall). Michaels crashes through the announcers table. 

I'm sure you all know what happens next. Michaels gets brought back into the cell, Taker proceeds to hit a chokeslam off the top of the turnbuckle, smashes Michael's head with a chair, and then right before he's about to finish the job, one of the all time greatest debuts in Pro Wrestling history happens. Kane appears with Paul Bearer, rips apart the Hell in a Cell door, goes into the ring, tombstones Taker and then leaves. Michaels pins him and wins the match.

Honestly, are there any faults with this match? In my opinion, no. At least, not anything that hurts the overall value of the match. I do think that the last two or so minutes drag, and I do think it's a little ridiculous that Taker is able to get beaten after one tombstone considering how long it took for Michaels to pin him after Kane hit it, but honestly, it just made Kane's debut all the more impactful. A lot of what happened in this match were original and unique at the time. And of course Michaels and Taker had the advantage of this being the first ever Hell in a Cell match. A lot of the Hell in a Cell matches that occurred later did what they could to stand out on their own, such as Taker/Mankind, Jericho/HHH, Edge/Taker, but there's always a certain part of those matches that always come back to this one. That's not saying that it automatically makes this one the greatest. What makes this one the greatest is that it truly is a masterpiece and a perfect match. Both guys played their parts perfectly, the right result happened. It made the Hell in a Cell concept, something brand new at the time, live up to its own hype. And given how personal the feud was, this was the right way to settle it. This match made Hell in a Cell a hit right off the bat, and for it, it definitely deserves a perfect rating. And I'm glad Meltzer felt the same way.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Does it deserve the five stars? Yes.


 @Big Cal's World would have asked for your ban from thread if this would have been a no I suspect.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Brock said:


> @Big Cal's World would have asked for your ban from thread if this would have been a no I suspect.


It's funny you mention that, I was actually complaining about how the network was buffering like crazy while I was trying to watch it on the network, and when he asked me when match it was, I told him and he asked why the network was buffering during the greatest match ever. 

But yeah, definitely a five star worthy match and I can't see why it wouldn't be.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

AlternateDemise said:


> Okay, so I decided that I'm going to give my own personal analysis of the five star matches WWE has had according to Dave Meltzer, and give my own opinion of whether or not they are Five Star worthy or not.
> 
> So, the first match I decided to do was the first ever Hell in a Cell match between Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker.
> *
> ...



Well done writeup on one of USA's finest matches imo. One detail I would highlight to add on is when Kane gets in in the ring after ripping that door off and at that time having the boulder shoulders and looking to be in killer shape: I will always remember that expression Taker has on his face when staring at Kane in the ring. A look of not quite fear, for that would mess with Taker's character, but that look with a masterful mix of "yeah, Im screwed" and shock that synched perfectly with the build and result. Taker could've just straight faced Kane there and the moment would still be badass but that extra sell with that expression just really completed things to me. You have to keep in mind how straight-faced Taker was built up until that point. That little expression did so much in telling the marvelous story. 

Anyway, before reading that came in here to say while I am sure some of ya'll who hardly miss a thing have seen this but for me, I found this and this is a nice little match for the time and purpose they got. Some might say Owen got too much in but I think Dibiase did well in making himself and a quite young Owen Hart look good here. that dive through the ropes by Owen was beautiful.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Up next in my five star match reviews, I will be taking a look at the first ever Steel Cage match between two legends in the wrestling industry, Bret and Owen Hart!

*Owen Hart vs Bret Hart Summerslam 1994*

Does it deserve five stars? No.

Okay, hear me out here. Before I explain why, I just want to point out a few things.

First, I do want to give this match all of the credit I can give it before I begin to criticize it. I don't hate it. I really like the match. And of course, I think it goes without saying that just because a match isn't five stars worthy doesn't mean it's not a great match. And to me, this is a great match. There was a time however when I absolutely hated it. That was when the fourteen year old dumbass in me first saw it. I don't even remember why I hated it. I think it must have been because of there being no pin falls, but honestly I can't say for certain. Either way, when I watched it again on the WWE Network (which didn't have much buffering issues this time, I'm unsubscribing if you cunts give me this problem during Austin/Hart) with an open mind (or at least I tried to). In all honesty, I liked it this time a lot better than I remember. I was always a big fan of both performers, so naturally I would expect nothing short of a great match out of these two.

Another thing I have to give them major props for is being able to make their styles blend so well. See, something to note about me is that I am not a big fan of two wrestlers going up against each other who have similar in ring styles. Whether it be two powerhouses or two cruiserweights, I just don't enjoy these kinds of matches. The thing I love the most is when different styles and sizes go up against each other. It allows for a more unique and much more interesting story to be told in the ring. It's one of the reasons why Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell, the first five star rated match I reviewed was so entertaining for me. They were two completely different types of in ring performers working different roles in the match. There are exceptions, especially those who have incredible chemistry (most recently Miz/Ziggler, I loved the matches between Rusev and Swagger, I was always a fan of the Chavo/Mysterio matches too).

So to add onto that, this cage match had one big disadvantage, and it's that there were no pinfalls or submissions. So the only thing you could do is escape the cage. So Bret and Owen had a lot working against them. So for them to have all of that, and to have such similar styles (I mean seriously, they're brothers for fucks sake), and STILL make me enjoy their match is pretty damn impressive and just shows how legendary these two were in the ring.

But, with that said, that's where the problem comes in. Now, I want to just make a point here before I go on (and I know I'm rambling a bit but bare with me here. Seriously, I'll give you a cookie, just keep reading). I've had a couple of people who I have talked to about this whole no pinfall or submission issue point out to me that I shouldn't hold that against them due to it being so unique at the time and to think about what it would be like as a viewer seeing a cage match for the first time. In all honesty, I don't agree with this assertion at all. And that HBK/Taker match I referenced earlier just proves it. And we've seen so much be done with cage matches these days that it's hard to be as impressed with what happens with this one. In my opinion, they don't really set the bar as high with this one. While its pacing was outstanding and the action was incredible, it didn't really define the steel cage match. It didn't set the bar as high as HBK/Taker did, at least not for me. Another thing I want to point out is that there's another famous match that was a first for its time that a lot of people actually give a lot of criticism to. It was none other than the 60 minute Iron Man match between Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart that happened a year and a half later. At the time, that match was a big deal and when it happened, it had people on the edge of their seats. It was actually a nearly perfect match (I would give it a perfect five stars myself if Bret didn't no sell the damage Shawn Michaels did to his arm almost immediately after enduring nearly twenty minutes of it like a stupid idiot). But the problem here is that we know the result. We know now that neither man doesn't get pinned or submitted for the first sixty minutes. So all of a sudden, it's boring. It's an unfortunate thing that we can't really look past. Same problem happens with this cage match only in a different matter. Without the pin or submissions coming into play, it can become a bit of a bore at times. And suddenly, the idea of these guys trying to escape the cage constantly starts to become old.

Here's why I actually wish there were pins or submissions. Remember that point I made before about how HBK/Taker set the bar higher for their match in their first encounter? In that match, we didn't even necessarily need submissions or pinfalls because that wasn't really the focus of the story. In that case, it was about survival on HBK's part, while for Taker it was about beating Shawn within every inch of his life. And when pinfall attempts did in fact happen, they felt a lot more meaningful. You could feel the desperation on Michaels part when he tried as well as when he kicked out. And because it was so infrequent, it meant a lot more when we saw it happen. With this cage match, we're supposed to assume that the cage hurts like hell. And that's fine. But when you're seeing one or both men suddenly recovering a little more quickly than they should, that can suddenly make you forget about the pain they're supposedly going through. And trust me when I say this, they go through a LOT in this match. Being slammed into the cage, big suplex spots, all that jazz. But then suddenly, the climbing of the cage happens and the guy who is down springs back to life. Pinfall and submission attempts would, at the very least, give both men a reason to stop and rest and allow the crowd to settle into what was truly happening. But instead, they had to compensate for the lack of pinfall attempts and down time with dead spots and then actual big spots. And because these big spots were happening so frequently, sometimes you could tell when they were setting up for the next big spot. One example I'll specifically point out is when Owen Hart piledrives Bret Hart to the mat. For a brief moment, Owen takes a breather and rests on the mat to heal up. Now in this situation, because he gave Bret some time to recover, you'd think he would try inflicting some more damage on Bret. OR, do the next logical thing, which is go to the nearest part of the cage. Now I just want to point out their location. On the main camera, at this point they are closest to the bottom right corner of the ring. All of a sudden however, Owen turns around and goes to the OPPOSITE CORNER and climbs there. And guess what? A higher corner spot happens. This specific spot requires a specific camera angle, and you could tell that's why they did it. 

There's also that famous spot where both Bret and Owen are diving at the open door trying to crawl out. I'll admit, it's a cool spot and showcases this idea of both brothers almost being of equal talent with Bret just having the edge due to experience. But here's my problem, why are they not using the door more often? I know that wouldn't be as entertaining, but wouldn't it make a lot more sense? It's something that unfortunately bothered me through out the match. And of course, when either one did use it, the other magically sprung back to life ready to stop the person.

There's another important reason as to why I feel having pinfall and submission would have helped and I'm going to point to one of my all time favorite steel cage matches as an example, which was between Chris Jericho and Edge. At one point in the match, Chris has Edge down in the middle of the mat and tells the referees to open the door. He walks out and is ready to step on the outside floor. However, at the last minute, he decides he wants to decisively beat Edge, believing himself to be truly better than him and that he doesn't need to run away. He thinks he's good enough to pin or submit Edge. That ends up backfiring. Jericho gets pinned and loses the match. In this match between Bret and Owen, these two are trying to truly show who is the better Hart. But when I see one trying to escape the cage as their way of winning, it just doesn't do justice for me. One of the wrestlers escaping the cage just doesn't feel decisive, and Edge/Jericho pointed this out (as did Eddie/Rey, who also did this only to a much more powerful effect, although the match itself wasn't as great). And with the kind of story that these two had, with how personal the feud was, with how many years in the making it was, going back all the way to when Owen was fucking born. These guys are now fighting for the WWF Championship (which should have main evented but instead a shitty Taker vs Clone match did). If they are actually doing this, with everything that is going on, I want this thing ending in a pinfall or submission, not via Owen's leg being stuck on the cage allowing Bret to escape. And maybe they were going for something entirely different. And you know what? It probably worked. Good for them. But it does nothing for me. But now, imagine this. Owen tries to pin Bret with a few big moves, fails, gets frustrated, and THEN tries to escape. Imagine how much more powerful of an effect that would have? And with Bret, who has endured so much, lets say he hits a big move but is already in so much pain that he can't imagine himself mustering much offense at the moment. So what does he decide to do? He tries to escape. What does this do for both guys? You have a lot more to work with, and you make both guys look better. You showcase how dangerous Owen is and how seriously Bret takes him, but you always showcase how much punishment Bret is capable of taking. And with there being pins, and with there being submissions, there aren't as many dead spots in this match (which I remember Bret saying at one point was a problem for them). In the end, Owen decides, you know what? I can beat Bret, I don't need to leave the cage. I pinned his ass at Wrestlemania and I'll do it here. But in the end, Bret beats him. Let that sink in for a moment. Think about what kind of message that would send. 

But in the end, what they did go with did work in a lot of ways. But not in a way that, in my opinion, earns it a perfect five star rating. I'll say this. It was definitely a fantastic back and forth match. Bret and Owen did a terrific job of balancing out escaping the cage attempts with in ring action. As I said earlier, the pacing is incredible, and the chemistry was off the charts. And the crowd was red hot for this. But some of the dead moments, obvious setting up of spots, as well as just the concept of the match simply not working against them makes it hard for me to view this as a perfect match.
*
In the end, I give this match a ****1/2 rating.* A terrific match but with its obvious and glaring weaknesses that can take you out of the match at times. 

Up next: CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really enjoyed the Falls Count Anywhere match between Charlotte & Sasha tonight. I don't understand why the belt is switching hands so much and why RAW is only platform that Sasha can actually win it... but whatevs. Enjoyable main event and another notch in their series.

Roadblock: End of the Line is looking like a skippable show with a god awful name to boot.  Don't care about Owens vs. Reigns in the slightest because it's obvious that Owens is retaining and if he doesn't retain, it's just gonna be REALLY fucking stupid and we're going back to square one with the megapush of Roman. Assuming we get some form of Rollins vs. Jericho too and that's already been done recently. I'm also done with New Day's reign. Another instance where we have to wait it out because they've made it incredibly obvious they're getting the record and then losing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It took me over a week but I watched Survivor Series. All I want to say is I was moved to an overwhelming joy when Zayn ran at HALF SPEED to hit the tope on Miz, b/c he was selling the knee like a god. This is actually common place for him, but in this current era of wrestling taking the L, it's remarkable to see that dedication retain. 

then the finish happened :mj2

but hey good match

oh and GOLDBERGGGGGGGGG


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Only just discovered this today:






Could the odds have been any more lopsided? :lmao






I think it goes without saying that Zayn is a premiere in ring worker in WWE. That match with Owens at Battleground (my favourite main roster match of the year, which says a lot because I think Owens' ring work has been shoddy for a while now) being a prime example of how you can still perform the right way, regardless of all of the excuses in the world about limitations and crap agents. The guy just 'gets it' between bell to bell. He's also very solid on the mic and knows how to convey emotion through his more than likely overly scripted dialogue. That won't exactly be a shock for fans of NXT's glory days. For the uninitiated though, go watch his interactions with Foley on raw as an example. Sami also expertly covered for Mick's humiliating false teeth incident, which could have destroyed the tension of the promo with slower reactions.

That only makes it all the more disappointing when looking at how WWE have generally left him to drift on listlessly without any real direction for most of his main roster tenure. Even when Sami finally gained some momentum by toppling Owens, he faded into obscurity straight after that. Imagine if he had been drafted to Smackdown and given the opportunities that Ziggler had recently. Hopefully this BRAUN/Foley angle builds him some major sympathy and gets him properly over the way he could be.

Just a shame he has to undermine it a tad with that goofy cap that makes him look like a Yorkshire arable farmer. However, I'll forgive him if he comes out at WrestleMania 33 on a combine harvester and shoots blanks into the sky from a shotgun :ban I mean, if ever there was an entrance that would get him white hot over with US audiences, it's that. I'm only half joking btw. Not joking at all about the crazy Yanks and their gun fetishes.

:woywoah

Miz as well though. An actual heel that garners heat in modern WWE. He can work in ring wise too. The guy made a 2016 Ziggler match watchable.











P.S. Fuck Dolph Ziggler.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Strowman/Zayn is going to be a very good feud.

Zayn should NEVER go over Strowman in this feud might I add - it's ridiculous and pointless to ever think he should. I actually think that'll get him more over with the crowd too. Strowman dominates him time after time, Zayn just keeps coming back for more. I have the vision of Strowman standing over Zayn's battered body and you just see Zayn grab on to Strowmans leg trying to crawl him up but is just too beaten to do so whilst Strowman just laughs before walking off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Andre said:


> Only just discovered this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Havn't got to that match yet on my :goldberg watching, but Bazza did have a match with him earlier too near the start of the streak; (saturday night 1/10/98) 



Andre said:


> P.S. Fuck Dolph Ziggler.


roud


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Ive been looking for obscure Goldberg matches on pro fight database, so not sure how I missed that one. I legit laughed when I saw this one on the list though. If there was ever a match up to define the true art and purpose of the squash match, it's that one.




I think Zayn will be the one to take Braun to his most competitive match so far, but will cop an absolute battering at times. That would be the typical way to get him over in defeat. Let him delay leaving the ring after Braun has marched off, before selling agony (as only Sami can) and courageously walking out on his own to a possible standing ovation.

If Sami is to ever beat Braun it will probably a lot further down the line. Braun is being built up for a big time WrestleMania match.

I'm glad they're finally doing something with Strowman btw. I was in here moaning about how Lesnar stiffed him and took him off his feet far too quickly/easily at the Royal Rumble, when most other people thought he was a worthless piece of shit. Then again it is a trend on this forum that people are too quick to define green wrestlers, forgetting they need experience of regularly working to improve. Not just working, but in front of big live tv crowds on a regular basis on the road. The guy has a lot of potential and they're now booking him how a giant should be, unlike say Big Show for most of his WWF/WWE career. Hopefully they keep it up.

BRAUN


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Andre said:


> Ive been looking for obscure Goldberg matches on pro fight database, so not sure how I missed that one. I legit laughed when I saw this one on the list though. If there was ever a match up to define the true art and purpose of the squash match, it's that one.


http://textuploader.com/d53mg

This is the listing for the Goldberg comp i'm going through. Dat Jerry Flynn 8*D


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Agreed with everything Andre said really.

At the moment? Zayn should never even come close to beating him. He should perhaps get the most offence in out of the fact that he's not afraid and would probably catch Strowman off guard. Strowman moves on from Zayn looking much better, Zayn moves on getting a lot of support from the crowd and is hopefully booked a lot better, whether that's him moving to Smackdown and making a name for himself of just being booked better on Raw.

Fast forward a year, two years or whatever. Strowman is potentially champion or holding a belt of some kind (US title for example) and who steps forward as his next challenger? A well booked Sami Zayn who's wanting revenge. I just don't have any faith in the WWE to book anything beyond next week when Strowman probably beats down Foley for not allowing him to demolish Zayn.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah I don't trust them to book either guy properly long term either. They will probably book this feud well enough, but not follow it up properly. 

For example, it would be an amazing 'moment' for Sami and we know WWE love to deal in 'moments', but that has to be followed up with momentum through Sami convincingly putting away a succession of guys nearer his physical level, keeping him warm with another angle, leading into another big match where he's ridiculously outmatched but shows a lot of heart. Keep giving him promo time to convey said heart, while booking him to prove doubters (in this case Foley) wrong and he will get very over. Then when the fans are chomping at the bit for it (I mean other than Cody :cozy) give him a monumental title victory, before screwing him over somehow a little later on and beginning a chase in a heated feud. That's an incredibly basic outline, but I don't think he's someone that needs complicated booking (an example of that being how they should have booked Reigns from his late 2014 injury return onwards, but that's for another discussion).

Braun is the complete opposite end of the spectrum and just needs to dominate, barring a few rare big losses to people that matter or people that are ready to matter.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Andre said:


> Only just discovered this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*:frankie at the bolded part. And the Miz part at the end. 

Did you see the Zayn match with Rollins from after Summerslam? One of my favourtie all time sell jobs by Zayn. Ok slight hyperbole on that but only slight. 

Zayn should be so easy for them to book but they think that their shit booking made Bryan a star and they're doing the same with Zayn now not realising that Bryan got over in spite of their booking that would kill just about anyone else. And has Zayn already to an extent. He's not over "in the universe". And why would he be if you only know 2016 Sami Zayn on Raw. He's sort of likeable but someone who's only been a background player for like 4 consecutive months now with no character moments and now he's in the role Jack Swagger was to Rusev 3 years ago. Sami Zayn is Jack Swagger. The first threat who puts up a fight but it just a stepping stone. He's getting promo time at least so maybe he becomes a bit more than that but he can't get a win over Braun because Vince's monster booking dictates that the monster beats everyone until he faces the top babyface who beats him and then the monster is just a guy until the next vacancy for a monster push to repeat the cycle opens up again. Getting Sami over against Braun should be easy but they a) can't do easy booking and b) won't follow up on it right anyway. I mean they have Sami and Bayley on the same show and somehow they're not best friends already hanging around together backstage. Like come on guys. Zayn eliminating Braun from the Rumble would be good because Braun has to go somehow but it's also kinda too soon because there's not much time for Braun to destroy Sami a whole bunch of times and for that to be the payoff at the end. Although I spose there is if you fast track it. Or save it for the the Battle Royal at Mania but if Braun is in that then he's in it to win it (Next time you’re at the checkout and you hear the beep....)*


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

@seabs yes I've seen it. Jim Cornette, for all his criticisms of Zayn when working as Generico in ROH (some that were fair, like needing to lose the mask and talk), called him an immaculate seller. That match is a perfect example of why that comment is justified. I personally believe it was the type of scenario that he shouldn't have been booked in, putting over an at that point long term poorly booked cowardly heel, but it was a damn fine performance from him none the less. He's the consistent antidote to all of the spammed big spot glorified transitional move no selling bullshit that infests most other matches. "This is awesome". No it's not, dick heads.

I know you're not suggesting they should book it, but if Braun and Sami are in the Andre battle royal then WWE are bigger idiots than I imagined. Both should be in important matches, barring medium term injuries between now and then. Braun should be putting over a top level babyface and Sami should be having a big midcard level title victory. Obviously that could either mean a trade to Smackdown after Foley keeps putting the blocks up, leading to Sami filling the physical Daniel Bryan role (creating the angle of Sami finding a mentor who fully believes in him) versus the Miz and winning the IC title, or staying on Raw and winning the US title. Reigns still being US champion at that point would be weird. Either push him as the top guy and carry on with the propaganda or turn him heel. At this point WWE have to shit or get off the pot, because fans who hate Reigns won't change their minds with the current booking. You can't put the genie back in the lamp. It's too late.

I would say why bother putting Sami and Braun in their current situations otherwise, but then again you could say that about a lot of current WWE booking that generally leads to disappointment. WWE Apathy Era.

Braun's elimination at the Rumble should be the typical giant spot where a bunch of guys are trying to get him out (I've got to be consistent after all :quite), then Sami is the straw that breaks the camel's back.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Apathy Era. Oh my. How fitting. Especially following yet another Sasha title win on RAW that leaves me to not care a single bit. (lolWWE)

The Zayn/Braun pitches are all great. None will probably amount to a single thing in reality, but I agree w/the foundation among all this. They'll probably have a p. damn killer match if left to their simplistic format devices (fairly BIG if, just b/c I can't trust these dolts), then the next night on RAW it'll all be reset like nothing happened. You can't fight the cynicism when it is painstakingly true week in and week out.

On the Goldberg subject: Try and find vs Jim Duggan from 2000. And if you can, see the video package w/Duggan before the match and holy cow does it make for a GREAT story in the midst of a squash. Duggan's promos, WOW. Wait, omg I found it. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd9e1e_jim-duggan-vs-bill-goldberg_sport

This is HEEL Goldberg too, so it's got such an unusual dynamic to it. Not saying I advocate that, but it lets him be a jerk in ways that weren't seen much. Duggan is the right kind of face to do it too. Watch it.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Who would have thought Goldberg could have been such an effective bullying asshole? Then again, why would anyone think that turning WCW's biggest potential money making babyface into a heel was a good idea? Russo strikes again!

On that subject, remember GOLDBERG REFUSES TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT? I decided to make my poor brain go through the mill again and suffer some more damage just to re-live that. Was worth it just for the overly aggressive pumped up hicks that they interviewed at the start of New Blood Rising :lmao

Did we just go a whole page (25 club for life) without star ratings?

Now we will return to your regularly scheduled programming :quite


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Up next in my Meltzer five star WWE match reviews is the most recent addition to his list CM Punk vs John Cena at Money in the Bank in 2011. When looking at the list, it just now occurred to me that this was the only WWE five star rated match that wasn't a No DQ match. :wow

Anyways, on to the review!

*CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011*

Does it deserve five stars? Yes.

You'd think it would be this match that I first said no to rather than the first ever steel cage match between two undisputed in ring legends, and a lot of people I've noticed have said that this match isn't five star worthy. But in all honesty, this match was brilliance personified, and thus I could not disagree more.

To truly understand just how downright amazing this match is, I'm going to focus on three parts: The build up, the match itself, and post match, three very important aspects in my opinion when determining whether or not a match is five star worthy.

But first, there's something I want to address, a reason that many point to as to why this match isn't five star worthy, and that is the botches. Now I agree that botches can and should have an impact on how a match is viewed, especially when they are many in number. But I also think that there's a pecking order on how bad botches can truly be. Do they affect the spot? Do they stop the spot from happening entirely? Is it something as disastrous as someone failing to kick out when they were supposed to or is it something as minor as a move simply not looking right? How did the wrestlers react to said botch? Did it throw them in disorder or did they take advantage of it? These are things I try to factor in. In all honesty, the botches in this match, while there were definitely quite a few, weren't all that bad. A lot of them were minor and didn't have any negative effects on the match, apart from the botched catching powerbomb spot. But even then, this was a 33 minute long match. A lot of the other botches in my opinion didn't really hurt the match and some of them were taken advantage of. One that comes off the top of my head is when Punk hit a diving crossbody spot on Cena and accidentally landed on Cena's knee. So Cena decided to sell it as if he hurt his knee. And he ended up selling the damage for the next few minutes. I thought that was very smart on Cena's part and it helped make the set up for the next few moments in the match make sense. It helped make it feel more real, and that's an underrated aspect of Pro Wrestling. All in all, people overreact to the botches in my opinion, and while there were many, most, if not all, of them were minor and forgettable. 

Okay, so now onto the breakdown.

*The Build Up:* As we've all probably said, the build up to this match was absolutely incredible. I'm not going to go over the part we already know happened. We know about Punk's shoot promo and the amount of attention it brought to the WWE, and how out of no where it seemed to be and how it changed the culture of the WWE at that point. And of course we know about the incredible segments between Cena, Vince and Punk. There's also that little thing about Punk's contract expiring on this date. Oh and it was in Punk's hometown, Chicago. But, yeah, as I said we know all that jazz. And we know how great all of that was. What I want to point out is how this started. See, with the other five star rated matches, their build ups began with something significant. Here, CM Punk was coming off of a win against Rey Mysterio on PPV. He had been going through a irrelevance stage for about two years now and was pretty much an afterthought. No one was expecting this to be anything note worthy. And there wasn't any personal tension between Cena and Punk or any history before this. This was simply a title opportunity Punk earned. 

And the build up was only three weeks long. Yeah, from the time Punk won his title opportunity, WWE only had three weeks to build this thing up. WWE took a risk with this, and it paid off in a huge way. This alone was a huge accomplishment. They took something with no history behind it and only three weeks to build up during a dull time period in WWE and was able to turn it into one of, if not, the hottest storyline in a good five or so years. It had been a while since a storyline in WWE got that much attention. 

But now, onto the next aspect...
*
The Match:* With the way this thing had been built up, it seemed that CM Punk was ready to go all out or die trying. So with that being the case, this shouldn't have been anything other than a evenly match affair that saw neither man really have the advantage for anymore than a significant period of time. And that's exactly what we got. From the very start, neither man seemed to have a significant advantage over each other. Even if one gained the upper hand, it wasn't for very long. 

And Cena reacted to this. See, Cena started this thing out the way he usually does. He feels out his opponent, throws some punches, and does his routine. But here, Punk puts up a fierce resistance, and you can tell after a dropkick spot that Cena is caught off guard by how Punk's performing early on. Cena would shortly attempt his finisher early. Why is this important? Because during this time frame, Cena NEVER did this. You see opponents do finisher counters at the beginning of matches every now and then, but this was rarely ever done during a Cena match that early. And we're not talking about two minutes in, this happened about five minutes into the match. That's a powerful message being sent by Cena. And it played out like this through out the match. 

What do I mean by this? You guys know how Cena likes to bust out random moves he did in the past when he's in a long match with guys who are taking him to the limit? The idea of this is that Cena is doing this when he feels his opponents are extremely dangerous, it's his way of busting out other ways of trying to win because what he's doing right now isn't working. And CM Punk does the same thing. He does a knee onto Cena's head on the ring apron (something he only did once in his career), he busted out the three kick combo sweep, hell he even does a super hurricanrana, something he rarely did at that point. Cena on the other hand attempted the standing leg drop on two occasions, used numerous belly to belly suplex variations, and even did an abdominal stretch.

In other words, the story being told in this match was perfectly clear. Both men were taking each other very seriously, and were pulling out all the stops to win this match. And that would make sense. There was a lot on the line. Punk loses, he leaves WWE without the title. Cena loses, he loses his title AND he's fired. Both men were fighting like their lives were on the line. We've seen that story be told so many times in WWE, but this might have been the best we had ever seen it be put on display (at least in a regular singles match).

One aspect of this match I absolutely loved was the counters. Oh my god the counters. There were so many counters that seemed to come out of nowhere, and yet they made sense. Punk countering the back forward suplex into a knee that sent Cena to the outside, Punk kicking Cena when he does his 'you can't see me' taunt, Punk landing on his feet off the AA attempt and hitting the three kick sweep combo. One of my all time favorite counter sequences actually occurred in this match. Basically, CM Punk does a diving crossbody into Cena who catches Punk and puts him up on his shoulders for an AA attempt. But Cena throws him too far up and Punk gets out and lifts him up for a GTS. Punk is able to lift him over and lifts his knee up to hit the move, but Cena dodges the knee, swings his arm under Punk's rising leg, twists around and brings him down to the mat for a STF attempt, which he successfully locks in. After less than a minute, Punk is able to roll out of it and lock in the Anaconda Vise. About two minutes into the submission, Cena is able to get himself up, get Punk's arms out of his head and quickly lift him up for a AA attempt, which he hits. He goes for the cover, and Punk kicks out at two with the crowd going crazy. It was one of the best sequences I had ever seen, and had me going crazy the first time I saw it, and it still amazes me how well executed this sequence was.

Oh, and speaking of the crowd, you've all probably noticed that I haven't even mentioned them yet. Well, the reason is because, as I said earlier with the build up in regards to all the good things that we already know about, there's not much I can say about the crowd in this. Everything that there is to say has already been said. The crowd was unreal in this match. They were constantly loud, constantly in support of Punk and constantly giving loud boos to Cena. I sound like a broken record saying this because this has been pointed out so many times already. BUT, with that said, there is something that isn't pointed out a lot and it's how Punk and Cena used the crowd to their advantage. And I'm not going to point out numerous examples, instead I'm going to use one.

Not a lot of people saw Punk winning this match. I sure as hell didn't. Fans in Chicago and around the world were still pretty familiar with Punk's stand in the WWE at the time. He wasn't a main eventer by any stretch of the imagination. But despite that, he did kick out of one AA. Now, at the time, anyone kicking out of the AA was an uncommon occurrence, especially compared to today where wrestlers seem to take bets before hand on how many times they can kick out of it in one match. After that first AA, Punk didn't have a lot going for him. He was able to counter the leg drop attempt into a sit out powerbomb, but it was a botched one. Remember that part about using botches to their advantage? Well in this case, that actually worked to their advantage in an unintentional matter. Immediately after this, Cena took back the advantage and was able to hit his leg drop this time. He went for the cover and Punk kicked out. Cena showed no signs of concern, and prepared for another AA attempt. Meanwhile, there was clear concern in the eyes of the Chicago crowd. And even Punk looked to be in a bit of a panic. Punk seemed to just be getting his ass kicked at this point. Cena picks up Punk, hits another AA, and goes for the cover again. And what happened was arguably the most unexpected moment in WWE since Cena's return in 2008: Punk kicked out AGAIN. And this sent the crowd into a frenzy. So now Punk has kicked out of the AA twice. Again, it was rare to see someone kick out of it once. Here, it happened TWICE. Remember all that stuff I talked about in regards to fighting like their lives depended on it? Well, it writes itself here. And at this point, Cena seemed to be in a state of panic, even walking up to the referee and questioning whether or not that was a slow count of some sort. 

And we all know how the match ends...on to the post match.

*Post match:* This might be my all time favorite post match segment ever. The acting, the atmosphere, the realization of what had just happened, it was absolutely incredible. 

CM Punk has won the match, and not once do they even mention what will happen to Cena. Fuck Cena, because right now he's not important. No one saw Punk winning this thing, and he just won. All of that legitimate fear Vince McMahon had about that whole situation involving Bret Hart in 1997 has now just happened here with Punk. At first, after Punk wins, they show Vince's reaction. He's staring on into the ring, with his heart seemingly stopping for what seems like the longest minute of Vince's life. He closes his eyes after a few moments, almost like he's trying to recollect himself. And in what I consider to be one of the greatest acting displays of Vince's career, we see Punk finally stand up, raise the title up in the air, and we cut to Vince with his mouth slightly open staring on into the ring. It's like at this point, it's finally hit him. CM Punk has won the match, he's walking out of WWE with the WWE Championship, and now Christian is technically the top guy in all of WWE. It's all of Vince's worst fears seemingly hitting him right there and then. It's a beautiful thing to watch play out, and I still get goosebumps to this day every time I see it.

And then, of course, there's the very end. CM Punk has taken out Alberto Del Rio, he blows a kiss saying goodbye to Vince and then runs away through the crowd. Vince goes up on the apron to get a sight of Punk and we get a moment that almost made me legitimately faint the first time I saw it. Punk standing among his fellow Chicagoians (or what ever you call them) rising his newly won title among his head as Vince McMahon looks on. There's no music, there's no commentary. Vince isn't saying or doing anything. He is simply looking on in shock with the only noise being heard is that of the screaming Chicago fans. It's a perfect moment. Words can't describe how incredibly well done this was.

Phew, long review I know, but honestly, this match deserves it. It's not HBK/Taker or Austin/Hart, but it is truly a masterpiece. From the build up to the ending, it is the undisputed definition of a perfect match. It had a hot crowd, incredible chemistry, a long list of incredible counters (a lot of which were firsts at the time), a lot of big time spots (that suplex out of the ring spot :banderas), an unexpected ending, the right guy won, and arguably the greatest display of storytelling ever done in the history of this company...in a regular singles match (sorry, no one's topping Austin/Hart). And what's crazy is that there's so much I left out (and there's probably some stuff I wanted to say after I finished watching the match that I left out) and the reason for that is, as I said before, a lot of what I left out has already been said so much about this match. It pretty much goes without saying.

So yeah, this match deserves its five star match rating. 

Up next, we are going back to 1994, and this time I'll be looking at the first ever (sort of) ladder match between Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Been reading some posts about Goldberg in here and have watched most of the matches listed and talked about. The sid matches were very very good. On Andre's post - "refusing to follow the script" still has me :lmao to this day

I attempted to watch Halloween Havoc 2000 the other day, I think i fell asleep after the 1st match, or 2nd match, had no idea what the hell was going on :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The start of Halloween Havoc 00 is p. good. Remember liking the opener tag and hardcore battle quite a bit. Show takes the notorious dive following those, until Steiner vs Booker. But lord have mercy at the garbage stuff that's on it. Sting vs Jarrett :lmao Shame, even the Goldberg match on it isn't any good.

REFUSING TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT actually being the starting point for GOLDBERG vs STEINER is something else. It starts off so :wtf2 only for it to work out by the time the match takes place. Recall digging the wild build at times, too. Steiner beats up Goldberg's girlfriend. Ratings.

@Andre when Goldberg starts to punch the kidney of Duggan post match amirite? Tony screaming that Goldberg is trying to kill him, oh man. There was such an unusual error to turn Goldberg heel, yet this match/segment made me kind of wish it lasted for a spell just to have more moments like this. I'll savor the novelty, b/c Goldberg smashing people to an overwhelming sense of support is what makes his aura so definitive.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How many times has Sting vs Jarrett happened? :lmao one of the most overused matches ever


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Andre

@Erik.


Found these today. Backstage/un-televised from the Nitro when Goldberg won the US Title. I did wonder when i saw the title of the video why i didn't remember seeing this before.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Monday Nitro Pre-Show - Columbia, SC - 10/5/98*






Found a great channel with some Nitro pre-shows on, including this one, that features


Rah said:


> There's a dark match in the Columbia Pre-Show feed where Goldberg absolutely murders Disco Inferno.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded the Mark Henry HALL OF PAIN run on XWT the other day and watched all of it. Man, I knew it was great when I was watching it happen in the first place, but DAMN, rewatching it makes it even better. Henry was truly the fucking MAN. The Summer of Punk was being shat on by HHH, Nash and whoever else at the time on Raw when it should have been the biggest angle in wrestling since Austin/Vince. Over on Smackdown though, MARK FREAKIN' HENRY was the real MVP of WWE in 2011.

Love how it all started off, as BIG SHOW was absolutely rage filled due to being run over by Albert Del Rio. Henry happened to be his opponent on this night, and Big Show BEGGED Henry to not get in the ring. He didn't listen, so Big Show fucking DESTROYED Mark, punching his face to death and causing Henry to be taken out on a stretcher. At first it seemed like WWE were getting ready to give Show a monster push as a destroyer once more, but when Show and Del Rio were due to face at Capital Punishment, Henry jumped Show and beat the fuck out of him, sending him crashing through a table with a WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM. From that point on, Henry would interfere in matches and maul people. Then he destroyed Big Show in a match at MITB, and finished it off by smashing the giant's ankle. Oh, and during the build up to MITB, we get the infamous moment of Henry throwing the sound guy into oblivion :mark:. Big Show pushed Henry to this, and now NOBODY could stop him :mark:. Kane tried, but got his ankle smashed too. Henry would bully and destroy people each week until SHEAMUS came out to put a stop to him, leading to a fantastic SLUGFEST at SS between the two which ended with Henry smashing Sheamus through the fucking barricade :mark:.

Henry wins a 15 man battle royal, which was a pretty great match too. Certainly one of the better battle royals I can remember along with the Raw 04 one that Orton won. As the #1 contender, Henry cuts some great promos, especially the one on the Cutting Edge, as Edge basically tells him his entire career has been a failure and Henry AGREES, but says nothing can stop him from making it right by winning the WHC at NOC.

The NOC match with Orton is great. I didn't used to like it that much before, not to the extent some of you guys do, but on this watch... :mark:. Henry was just so fucking perfect as being an unstoppable, powerful monster. All his basic moves looked brutal, his feats of strength were impressive, and his trash talking is second to fucking none during matches. In the end the WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN becomes the WORLD'S STRONGEST CHAMPION :mark:.

More random matches and beatdowns from Henry, and then the Orton rematch inside HIAC which might be my favourite HIAC match from the actual HIAC PPV that isn't Taker/Lesnar. Better than their NOC match too imo.

After HIAC, Big Show returns and wants revenge on Henry. More random Henry matches where he kills people, including a couple against John Morrison. The Raw match isn't in this pack though, which is the one with the awesome finish. Their SD rematch is damn good though and we get another cool finish from that as well. Vengeance match against Big Show is a fucking awesome battle of the monsters, and the ring imploding finish added to it. Their SVS match is great again but with a disappointing finish.

Leading up to their SVS and TLC natches, DANIEL BRYAN gets involved, by no fault of his own. This gives us some awesome Bryan/Henry matches, a cash in that I genuinely forgot happened and was stunned when Bryan WON, because like, I remember him winning at a different time so I was confused as fuck lol. Turns out Henry wasn't medically cleared to wrestle so the cash in never officially happened. It would also kickstart the AJ/Bryan stuff too and the Bryan heel turn and all that shit so :mark:.

TLC was sadly a very disappointing end to Henry's epic reign. Supposedly due to an injury at the time from what I remember... but Henry kept on going afterwards anyway so fuck knows. Show wins the title, dethroning Henry, and then Bryan cashes in and wins.

Overall this was the run of his career, and was easily the best part of WWE in 2011 now looking back. The whole Punk stuff was soooooo disappointing with the shitty booking and whatnot, but until TLC, Henry's booking was fucking spot on. Some awesome squash matches, awesome PPV matches, awesome moments and great promos. The Hall of Pain was fucking incredible and I miss it .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I only really came back to watching wrestling in 2011 after a near 6 year hiatus, so I only watched Raw to begin with. What Henry matches from that run would you recommend?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> I only really came back to watching wrestling in 2011 after a near 6 year hiatus, so I only watched Raw to begin with. What Henry matches from that run would you recommend?


EVERYTHING.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Predicted that response.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

One of my favourite highlights from the HALL OF PAIN run :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Predicted that response.


And yet, you still asked :cal2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> And yet, you still asked :cal2


One hopes for change.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cal is not kidding. Almost everything from his heel turn in April, to the end of the year, is very worth watching.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Mark Henry vs. CM Punk on the episode of Raw after WM28. I absolutely LOVE that match.



Edit - I remember after when Jericho smashed Jack Daniels over CM Punks head :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So maybe I should try and grab that pack then..........


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You would be wise to.

The Henry/Punk matches in 2012 are :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In the meantime, back to my Goldberg run










:goldberg

And his 99th win might please 
@Big Cal's World










:goldberg

This was the first time i saw him do the 'prepare stance' for the spear first, so Chavo was privileged.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Erik. said:


> Mark Henry vs. CM Punk on the episode of Raw after WM28. I absolutely LOVE that match.


Was a pain in the arse to find, but here's a cracking review of that match from one of the best match reviewers that has posted on this forum:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11248449-post769.html

:woolcock

Yeah1993 and Goku's discussion over the next page is quite interesting too. Henry obviously needs to improve his xG score.




That Henry/Orton NOC match is masterful btw. Henry with an all time great performance and post match promo. Weirdly though, the main thing that really sticks in my mind about that match is the hatchet job that Findlay Martin (Of Powerslam Magazine fame) did when reviewing it. He even cited stupid reasons such as the result deflating the crowd and shocking Orton fans as a reason why the match was bad. That guy HATED Henry and consistently displayed some horrendous bias against him even when he was producing good work. It's like he formed his opinion of the guy in 1997 and stuck with it. Really odd journalism. I've got some old ps copies in the loft and maybe I'll dig them out one day and scan them to show some of the ridiculous shite he wrote.

Talking of Powerslam. When reading their 'entire history of wwf/wcw/ecw on ppv' booklet series a while back, I remember reading that the INFAMOUS Mortis/Wrath vs Glacier/The Cat tag match from WCW BATB 97 was reported by their US ppv reporter (might have been Ernie Santilli of STATELY WAYNE MANOR fame) as having been PRACTICED move for move in the ring before the house doors opened for the public. The thought of it doesn't sour my opinion on the match, I just found it an interesting tidbit. PS gave it the full thumbs up too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry being down in the floor and kicking Orton away like he was a bear caught in a trap trying to escape a hunter's grasp is one of my favourite things in all of wrestling. And I give Orton a ton of shit but I've always said he could not have done a better job getting Henry over in the match. I stand by saying that even if Henry had lost.

The first Henry/Punk is seriously one of the best Raw matches I've ever seen. Punk quickly finding an out of the bearhug with an elbow strike flurry will live in my brain until I rot.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know it's an old WOOLCOCK review when he uses a star rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry vs John Morrison from 2011. 

Holy. Shit.

(they had two, iirc, watch both, but that RAW match is the one where it's like :mark

SI mention. Lets bump that World of Sport thread.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fuck yeah Henry/Morisson. Henry/Ryder too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

From that Nitro pre show

:goldberg


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched disc one of the Ultimate Goldberg set last night b/c obviously. The DDP and Raven matches go w/o saying. Two of my favorite matches ever, still are massively amazing to this day. You know which match is quite underrated? vs Hogan. The World Championship win is a HUGE moment, but the match is quite good too. Certainly the best thing involving Hogan that year by miles. Hogan's stalling, trademark dirty offense works well on Goldberg as he arrogantly tries to fake not being worried about Goldberg as his opponent. Goldberg kicks out of the leg drop, which rules. Although its a bit overshadowed by the crowd going nuts at DDP/Malone coming out for the second time to stop Hennig from interfering. Crowd is MOLTEN from that point on following Malone hitting a Diamond Cutter. Holy shit what a crowd. We all know the bad move in having this on TV, meanwhile BATB was really an underwhelming audience by comparison (I guess w/the exception of Goldberg and Wolfpac). Imagine if this WAS the PPV? I still have to say this all these years later, b/c damn damn damn, that would have been mega. Maybe even something to rival Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade. Maybe. Back to the finish; Hogan is scared shitless once Hennig is KO'ed. He turns around w/so much fear only to be demolished by a spear. The guy is cowering. Which is terrific b/c Hogan as face was the ultimate hero, then as a heel he knows to be the biggest cheap phony "I'm tough and can win on my own" hero around. The rest is history. I love that Hogan didn't try and not go through w/this. Sure it took the idea that it'll draw huge for him to be fine w/it, but screw it, it all went off perfectly. 40,000 people losing their minds that someone deserving won the World Championship. Doesn't get any better than that. Even those wearing the nWo shirts are loving it. Goldberg's celebration and pop will never get old. :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Goldberg joining DDP in getting the best out of Hogan on a Nitro. Or on any WCW show during that time tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just got to, and watched, that infamous 6th July 1998 night



































And :goldberg is the










WCW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION.............OF THE WORLD.

:mark:

What.A.Crowd


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always forget he wrestled Scott Hall first.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

There have been many times where Hogan has been selfish and self serving, but he gave Goldberg everything he needed that night. Worked like a proper heel move wise, used a bunch of heat seeking short cuts, showed ass and bumped when it mattered. It's a legit good match that doesn't recieve the credit it deserves because too many people focus on the 'moment' of Goldberg winning and the marks going into a glorious meltdown.

That Atlanta crowd really was something else though. I don't think I've seen many 'modern' wrestling crowds, if any, that were more rabid and raucous in wanting a certain result. An atmosphere that would put a lot of good big time sporting events to shame. That's when you know the product is good, because it feels real and as if the win/loss is a life or death situation for those in attendance. Then again it's not really a surprise, because Goldberg matches of that time often came across as proper sporting events because of his general presentation and style. It all added up and it's easy to see why he was so over.

Amazing to think the audience could have been even more boisterous if WCW weren't so naively focused on short term ratings. Just imagine the attendance figure, gate receipts and ppv buys WCW could have achieved had they built that match up over a few months for Starrcade 98. They drew close to 40,000 to the Georgia Dome with a few days notice from a fucking thunder episode. It could have been WCW's WrestleMania X7 in some ways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hall match is fun too. Commentary sells a belly to back suplex by Hall on Goldberg as a legitimate way for Hall to win, b/c Goldberg was actually knocked down, and it RULES. The analytical commentary within WCW added to matches more than it tends to be acknowledge. Probs b/c of the running joke that some nights they spent all the time talking about nWo while other matches happened. But when they zeroed in, Tony, Bobby, Tenay, and even that great, wacky Dusty all made some top observations. Bobby's hard sells :banderas

Watching the Georgia Dome Nitro does feel as if it is a WM sort of vibe. The HUGE dome arena, rabid fans for just about every match, the stacked card in terms of offering up a lot of matches under the three hour duration. It's memorable all the way around, to co-sign the infamy of Goldberg vs Hogan (and Hall.) Booker is in the opener, which means you had 40,000 people RAISING THE ROOF. How excellent is that? Scott Putski vs Riggs happens on it, too. :lmao Classic WCW. iirc may be the same night Malenko rips out Jericho's hair b/c he still wants to kill him for the embarrassment harassing.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I marked at all the talk of Mark Henry HALL OF PAIN. Decided to download the pack myself, so much fun coming :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> The Hall match is fun too. Commentary sells a belly to back suplex by Hall on Goldberg as a legitimate way for Hall to win, b/c Goldberg was actually knocked down, and it RULES. The analytical commentary within WCW added to matches more than it tends to be acknowledge. Probs b/c of the running joke that some nights they spent all the time talking about nWo while other matches happened. But when they zeroed in, Tony, Bobby, Tenay, and even that great, wacky Dusty all made some top observations. Bobby's hard sells :banderas
> 
> Watching the Georgia Dome Nitro does feel as if it is a WM sort of vibe. The HUGE dome arena, rabid fans for just about every match, the stacked card in terms of offering up a lot of matches under the three hour duration. It's memorable all the way around, to co-sign the infamy of Goldberg vs Hogan (and Hall.) Booker is in the opener, which means you had 40,000 people RAISING THE ROOF. How excellent is that? Scott Putski vs Riggs happens on it, too. :lmao Classic WCW. iirc may be the same night Malenko rips out Jericho's hair b/c he still wants to kill him for the embarrassment harassing.


Really glad you mentioned the commentary in all of this. After watching the streak up until this point, it's pretty special how Tony/Bobby/Tenay put over Goldberg in every match as the monster he is, and they bring it up a notch for the Hogan match. 

Every match they make him out to be the big deal he is, mention how much the crowds love him and really pit him over as DA MAN.

They definitely deserve a lot of credit in helping and building up the streak for Goldberg IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The kind of assistance that makes you remember why wrestling has commentary to begin w/. (sure every other sport does too, but remember, wrestling is telling stories yada yada and every point of narrative helps)

I'm trying so hard not to go off on a rant on commentary today. :goldberg


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talk about Nitro going off the air just when something happens :lmao

Goldberg did a run in at the end of the DDP/Hogan match and this was the ending of the show.

"We gotta go"

I can imagine the director screaming at the monitor "Just fucking chokeslam him FFS".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW and their damn love for "we've ran out of time, so bye" stuff. You know they loved thinking how spontaneous it felt, yet it happened so semi-frequently, it was REALLY obnoxious. I have a random NWA/WCW show from January '88 that does it ffs. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Funny thing is, it probably WASN'T supposed to be like that half the time :lmao. Just like with the DDp/Goldberg HH match cutting off at the start because they ran out of time :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh. The two PPV moments, both from Halloween Havoc, are different circumstances. Can't run over a slated 3 hour duration. Most of the time, WCW could have stopped or not opted for those type of endings. WCW Saturday Night did it in 95 w/a World Championship match or something big, and that's a TAPED show. Nitro could be afforded some overtime w/it being live, as it was quite a few times and even acknowledged on commentary that they did so. It was just one of those weird fixations the promotion never stopped loving. The running out of time spiel is how they opted to draw in all the viewers for the first ever Thunder, after all. Even though it continuously killed the then easy to book Sting vs Hogan angle at Starrcade.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Where have you got this Goldberg career comp from by the way? Definitely interested, sounds like fun :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erik. said:


> Where have you got this Goldberg career comp from by the way? Definitely interested, sounds like fun :mark:


Bought it ages ago now from a trader. It was made by someone who makes custom comps i think a few years ago. Some of the sources used could be better, but overall it's ok. For the WCW PPV's, i have most of them anyway, so i can fall back on those when needed.

It missed out this 'gem' despite it being on the listing 8*D






Found this streak channel too on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgjH2mVj0s&list=PL4UpzsrtAZiYWXK2hQsvdmakMwc-A6Jz-


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Expect a much shorter write up here compared to my last few.*

Well, it's time for the fourth five star meltzer rated match. And today, I will be discussing the first (again, sort of) ladder match in WWE, between Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels!

*Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon Wrestlemania 10*

Does it deserve five stars? Yes.

It's actually kind of funny. Despite all of the matches I've seen before, even ones dating back to the eighties, I've actually never seen this match until now. I obviously knew what it was, but just never got around to watching it. And it's strange because I was always intrigued by it. I've always had a pretty low opinion of Scott Hall, erm, Razor Ramon. It was a great gimmick and he was talented, but I never thought of him as anything more than a decent in ring performer who, when paired with the right guy, can put out some good matches.

Holy shit was I wrong. 

And more often than not, holy shit was what I found myself saying as I watched this match. It's something I'm hoping I'll be saying over and over again when Ziggler and Miz have their ladder match tomorrow. It's what you SHOULD say when you watch a ladder match. And the odd part is, there's not a lot of big spots or anything. Sure there's Razor tossing Shawn off the ladder, but other than that, a lot of the spots were pretty generic. Either way, this match felt incredibly brutal. Razor, despite me just criticizing him, has always done an incredible job with his striking, and for the first ten or so minutes it was put on display here. It helped make the match feel real. And as you guys know, I love it when guys with two different styles dish it out against each other, and they did a great job with it here. Hell, at one point, Michaels hits Razor with the ladder and sends him out of the ring. Rather than try to climb for the belt, Shawn takes the ladder and throws it at Razor from inside the ring. Shit looked painful.

One thing I really liked is that, for about the first ten or so minutes, they don't involve the ladders yet. Instead they slug it out and wait until one or the other truly get an advantage over the other before bringing the ladder into it. And why? Because the ladder is actually kind of far from the ring. Hell, I like that. Why don't they do that more often? I feel like it plays more into that idea of 'you have to work harder in this type of match to reach the gold'. And there's some brutality even before they get to the ladder. Hell, they already get rid of the protective padding on the outside floor. And wouldn't you know it, Razor Ramon eats the concrete when he gets sent over the top rope by Michaels. Only then, after his opponent crashed onto the concrete floor, did Michaels go to get the ladder. I think ladder matches in general need to do this more often. I know you're trying to reach the title, but it makes it much easier to do a one on one ladder/TLC match when you focus on beating the hell out of your opponent and then going for the belt rather than just spamming attempts.

And even when the ladder is introduced in the match, they still do this. They don't go crazy with the attempts, just when it's necessary. And again, it makes the match feel more real. A lot of ladder and TLC matches these days feel very choreographed, and it can really take you out of it if it looks obvious. Here though it's never an issue, because they do a great job of not over doing it. Because of this, the match flows very well, which is a rarity in ladder matches. It's a very simple match. No big complicated bullshit spots. Just two guys beating the hell out of each other, and going for the title when they feel the other person is out of the picture.

Even the fucking finish is very simple. Shawn Michaels hits sweet chin music on Razor and then hits a piledriver on him. He climbs up the ladder and goes for the title. Razor pushes the ladder, sends Michaels onto the ropes, who lands on them crotch first, and gets his foot hung up on the rope. Razor climbs up, while Michaels tries to free himself. Even after he gets his foot free, he ends up getting his arm free. By the time he gets himself fully free of the ropes, Razor grabs the IC titles and wins the match. That's it. It sounds kind of underwhelming, but in reality it's actually brilliant. It's not flashy or anything, but that's not the point of this match. It's not supposed to be flashy. 

All in all, this match is truly something. It has it all, from story to brutality to truly setting the standards for what a ladder match should be. Remember that thing I said about the first ever HIAC match that it accomplished but not the steel cage match? This ladder match accomplished the same. It showcased exactly how this match should go. There's truly no other way. Two guys beating the shit out of each other and showcasing just how hard it is to win a match like this. I'm hoping there comes a day when we can go back to these kinds of matches. Until then, we will just have to settle with what we have. 

I'd go into more specifics regarding this match, but much like Punk/Cena's five star bout, there's not a whole lot I can say about this match that hasn't already been said. If you haven't seen this match, I strongly recommend checking it out. It's extremely different from what we get now a days in terms of ladder matches. And you'll see what I mean when I say that it's a lot more brutal than what we're used to seeing.

Oh, and they only use one ladder the entire match. Major props to them, since most ladder matches seem to involve four ladders at the least. 

Up next and the final match on the list is the all time classic between two legends. I will look at the Submission match between Bret Hart and Stone Cold Steve Austin!

Edit: Well, fuck me. I guess it wasn't "much shorter". Oh well, I tried :draper2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A couple of weeks after that Goldberg/Giant Nitro off the air moment










He just about got the spear on before 'We gotta go'.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I use to be so confused as a kid when this was happening.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Goldberg/Nash vs Hogan/Giant on Nitro

Guess who Goldberg pinned to win the match?































































Nope. 







































Curt Hennig. 

Further tension started with Nash at least tho.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto Page/Goldberg now :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone looking forward to TLC tonight? It kinda snuck up on me but the Miz/Ziggler Ladder match and Styles/Ambrose TLC should be great. Also hoping Orton & Wyatt win the tag belts.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Decent card with decent build up and a lot of feud enders. It's crazy how much better state the WWE is in a year later than Roman/Sheamus main eventing the TLC PPV.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm not watching paying attention to the actual match, but Ziggler's so un-over and unlikeable that there are clear "Miz" chants from the crowd. I would suggest 'the death of wrestling crowds part 2769, but when the dork has USA tights on in a desperate attempt to try and get over, only for the crowd to still not care in the slightest... :bosque

EDIT: IDGAF what anyone says this brand split has BOMBED. Saw it coming over two years ago too :lenny


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

How has it bombed? Both shows have been entertaining for months now. Raw has had two excellent matches main eventing for two weeks in a row. Since Summerslam WWE has been fantastic.

The brand split has been a big success. Can anyone name anything that happened on Smackdown in the 4/5 years before the split?


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Both rosters are weak, hence shows like tonight's where hardly anyone matters in spite of the best efforts of a show like Smackdown (which in fairness has big flaws). The talent pool isn't deep enough, which is why you get a cold as ice Kalisto/Corbin match on a "special event" with an enforced gimmick that it doesn't need. Then there's people like Carmella who should still be in developmental, but they're desperate for bodies. How many times has Ambrose/Styles and Ziggler/Miz (note the crowd didn't really care) already happened? The majority of the stuff going on seems passable/forgettable because it's so overdone. Note the fallout of Sasha/Charlotte 35,648 and the ever growing tedium.

It feels like there's a "special event" every other week now. They're becoming glorified live aired house shows at this point. WWE are struggling to increase/maintain network subs, despite throwing loads of tricks out to entice subs. 11 free weeks FFS, they're desperate. Offer Squash with 19 parts water and fail to vary the flavours and people won't drink it too often.

The ratings have levelled out as decent, but decent isn't going to help them renew the mega USA Network contract in the future. With renew I mean on similar terms. By playing communism with their own roster at a time when they need capitalism, they're not going to push regular strong figures to create a flagship show (which obviously they always want raw to be) that can justify the money they want, which they NEED if the network is going to struggle long term.

Who is a red hot star in current WWE? Goldberg. That's it. Okay some of that is on booking, but both main event scenes badly lack star quality. Note I wrote star quality. Who looks like a god, talks like Martin Luther King Jr. on Coke, walks like they've got a third leg and has the admiration of the people? Kevin Owens is the country road tyre fitting champion of the world while WWE plays hot potato with Reigns' "will they won't they?" push. When the depth is poor you want to pool the best talents together to create the best possible money feuds and matches. They can't do that now.

"Entertaining for months" is also a subjective PoV. I think the opposite (Raw is an incredible struggle being three hours with a decimated roster) but wouldn't use that as an argument. Same goes for "can anyone name this that or the other from a previous time". Actually member that Smackdown centred around Team Hell No when they went ape shit with the chairs at the end?Oh I member!

Hopefully Styles/Ambrose is half decent.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

HA HA HA JAMES ELLSWORTH HAS NO CHIN HA HA HA LET'S MAKE HIM THE BIG ANGLE!

/Smackdown

Meanwhile WWE officials are sitting around the boardroom table, scratching their chins, wondering why their main event guys look like dorks.

APATHY ERA

At least they make it transparent why they had to give out those long term free sub offers.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Andre said:


> How many times has Ambrose/Styles and Ziggler/Miz (note the crowd didn't really care) already happened?


They are in a feud, of course they're going to have a lot of matches. That's what you're supposed to do. It's called building up to something. And in all honesty, the texas crowd was pretty shit tonight, so I wouldn't exactly look to them as a reference for how much people cared about those two feuds unless you're referencing a different show.

Anyways, I thought TLC was great tonight. A lot of great matches that surpassed my expectations and managed to stand out on their own. Miz/Ziggler was a let down, but still ended up being very good at the least. 

Wyatts/SlaterandRhyno: ***
Carmella/Nikki: *1/4
Ziggler/Miz: ***3/4
Corbin/Kallisto: ****
Bliss/Lynch: ***3/4
Styles/Ambrose: ****3/4

In all honesty, I probably would have given Styles/Ambrose a five star rating had it not been for the terrible finish.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

In the space of what, two months though? They have to hot shot feuds on tv because the roster is so thin that they lack alternative options, hence the Ellsworth nonsense being done to death, when really it's a silly idea that was odd to try even once... and this is the point. WWE are running through these feuds at such a break neck speed that there's nothing much left on the table. They're not building up anything, they're breaking down on the highway running out of gas.

How can you say the crowd being dead isn't evidence? What kind of arse backwards logic is that :woytf It's the EXACT scenario that you would point to when showing how burnt out an audience can become on something. Good grief.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

It is quite strange though, the actual action in the ring is great but it is just missing that connection which makes the audience feel something. Was there really any babyface on the show tonight that you can root for and get behind? These shows are almost always better on mute where you can create your own stories from your imagination like god damn GM Mode lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I personally have enjoyed the brand split, especially Smackdown. The amount of times Styles/Ambrose and Miz/Ziggler have happened doesn't bother me because the matches have never disappointed. As far as TLC goes:

Miz/Ziggler - *** 3/4 (Really enjoyed most of this. The legwork and selling was really well done and added some drama down the line. Thought the finish was a bit anticlimactic though and very surprised Maryse never got involved)

Styles/Ambrose - **** 1/4 (Totally awesome and loved the twist ending. AJ's bumping is just ridiculous in every major match)

The rest of it wasn't bad but I don't think it was particularly special. Tag Title match was too short to be anything but the pose at the end had me :mark:ing. Nikki/Carmella was alright I guess. Would've been nice to see Carmella get a win over her sometime but oh well. I give credit to Corbin & Kalisto because they did a lot of creative things in that chairs match. Sort of difficult to suspend disbelief at times because you feel like Corbin should've won in 30 seconds, but still a good match. Probably in the *** range. Alexa vs. Becky I really didn't care for and I pretty much knew I wouldn't once I saw they made it a tables match. Just a really slow match where nothing happens other than avoiding a table and then it abruptly ends. Happy to see Alexa win it though.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

There is definitely something in that. The roster is full of wrestlers that know how to pull off cool spots and sequences, but in terms of building tension, creating an atmosphere, suspending disbelief and working fans into feeling sympathy or hatred, most of them are the pits. A lot of the matches certainly come across as stunt/gymnastic performances, rather than heated rivalries that you can believe are real (for a few hours), which is why a lot of fans sit on their arses merely observing, with the occasional oohs and ahhs for the crazy spots.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I haven't watched the TV shows in months and it's crazy some of these programs are still going on lmao.

Slater/Rhyno vs. Orton/Wyatt - **
Carmella vs. Nikki - *1/2
Miz vs. Ziggler - ****
Corbin vs. Kalisto - **3/4
Becky vs. Alexa - ***1/2
Styles vs. Ambrose - ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Goldberg/DDP @HH

Starting with that MAGIC ENTRANCE (Cheap plug for an upload)



THAT FUCKING CROWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










Bill; "Get the fuck out with trying that shit with me"


















Fuck i adore this match. 

We roll on.......


----------



## _Chitown_312$ (Aug 26, 2016)

Wyatt's vs Ryno/Slater ***
Corbin/Kalisto ***1/4
Bliss/Lynch **3/4
Miz/Ziggler ***
Styles/Ambrose ****


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Andre said:


> How can you say the crowd being dead isn't evidence? What kind of arse backwards logic is that :woytf It's the EXACT scenario that you would point to when showing how burnt out an audience can become on something. Good grief.


Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I was saying and you know it. Texas crowds aren't known for being lively. In fact they're usually a pretty shitty crowd in this day and age. 

Hence why I said "unless you're referring to a different event". If this was, lets say, Chicago, then you would have a legitimate point here. But instead it was a crowd that was dead the entire night. And if you're telling me all those fans were going to TLC to watch a bunch of matches they didn't give the slightest fuck about, then I don't know what to say to you.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

AlternateDemise said:


> Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I was saying and you know it. Texas crowds aren't known for being lively. In fact they're usually a pretty shitty crowd in this day and age.
> 
> Hence why I said "unless you're referring to a different event". If this was, lets say, Chicago, then you would have a legitimate point here. But instead it was a crowd that was dead the entire night. And if you're telling me all those fans were going to TLC to watch a bunch of matches they didn't give the slightest fuck about, then I don't know what to say to you.


Well in fairness a lot of WWE's product is built on the premise of "come see the show" these days (as Jim Cornette has long argued), rather than being sold on particular matches, hence why a lot of tickets are sold before the cards are even announced...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What were the Bret/Page matches like? I remember a good one on Nitro in late 1998, what about WWIII?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

What's the deal with Ellsworth, and why do I read elsewhere that him running for a WWE title isn't so much a crazy joke as it is a serious possibility? It's like every time I dip back into WWE its writers have been plucked from even further recesses in the local mental asylum.

The dude is trash and is far from an effective enough bumper to work in his role. How did he land a cushy WWE job when there's an infinitely more talented scrawny guy in Kyle Matthews?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think it's the chin... or the lack thereof.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

THANK FUCK, HERE IS GOLDBERG TO SAVE THE DA....................yeah


----------



## Rated Phenomenal (Dec 31, 2011)

Rah said:


> What's the deal with Ellsworth, and why do I read elsewhere that him running for a WWE title isn't so much a crazy joke as it is a serious possibility? It's like every time I dip back into WWE its writers have been plucked from even further recesses in the local mental asylum.
> 
> The dude is trash and is far from an effective enough bumper to work in his role. How did he land a cushy WWE job when there's an infinitely more talented scrawny guy in Kyle Matthews?



Chill, AJ is going to kill him tonight so bad, then Taker gets involved.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> THANK FUCK, HERE IS GOLDBERG TO SAVE THE DA....................yeah


:lmao 

Where are the 2010 gurus? I just downloaded all the PPV's from 2010, what should I watch?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jürgen Klopp said:


> :lmao
> 
> Where are the 2010 gurus? I just downloaded all the PPV's from 2010, what should I watch?


IMO 2010 didn't have a single PPV that I'd label as "great", although I've heard good things about MITB and haven't seen all of that yet. It's one of my least favorite years of this decade though, tbh.

Royal Rumble - Christian/Zeke, Taker/Mysterio, and the Rumble are all good but none are standout imo.

Be sure to watch any matches between Mysterio and Punk. That's pretty much the highlight of the year for me, especially the OTL match.

Both MITB matches are really good but that's all I've seen from that show. I imagine Mysterio/Swagger is good as well.

Summerslam sucked. One of the weakest ones I can recall watching. Mysterio/Kane was good though.

Survivor Series has a really good first half, but the back half is garbage.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I just finished downloading all of WWE RAW from 2001. wens3 (hopefully it works on my tv properly this time, instead of being out of sync like the smackdown year I got a while back). 

OMG I found a CM Punk in WWE MEGA Pack, :sodone

I've been considering downloading WCW Monday Nitro from 1998 too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Need to get back to my WWF 2001 watching soon tbh, got up until KOTR before i took a break/forgot about it.

Back to Goldberg for now......

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, Bigelow's WCW debut

:done

This was soooooooooo well done. Feels like the first real program Goldberg has been involved
in since he became champ, TBH. Shame he's not on the next PPV and he's got Nash at Starrcade though.

I have uploaded his debut and the segments from Nitro 11/16/1998 here:

x54layb

I'd recommend a watch. Plus 
@Big Cal's World

Chavo gets walloped again :maisie


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*If ever there was a show where “well they tried” applies to virtually no effect it was this one. Opener was a total nothing match. May as well have made it a full on demolition. Nikki and Carmella both tried really hard but neither are smooth which makes it so hard for them to produce anything good together. Nikki actually sold the leg really well at first but then totally neglected it when it was comeback time. Carmella is a decent act still learning how to wrestle. There has to be someone better than David Otunga who can fill the quota spot on commentary. Him and JBL together. Jeez. I thought Miz/Ziggler sucked. That stretch at the start on the outside completely killed everything for me. There was just nothing at all to it, trying to do Ladder spots that were just total nothing. In a way I’m glad they worked a safe Ladder match but they worked a dull safe match. The leg shtick at the end was good on paper but they’d totally lost me by that stage. Kallisto/Corbin I thought was very good and they finally found a match where “Chairs Match” actually added more than a regular match would have with the chairs being Kallisto’s equaliser for Corbin’s size along with a platform for them to do big spots that got the match over way more than it would have minus the chair spots. Corbin’s fine but he was nothing more than a base for Kallisto to have a great performance off. They should really do something more with Kallisto because he’s pretty over, especially with kids despite being around for nearly 2 years now and getting fed little more than scraps. Becky/Alexa was about twice the length that a Tables match should be. They tried but Alexa is another still learning to wrestle and it’s very visible in her in ring performances. I actually thought the TLC match was really good. Very well paced. It was a spotfest but it was a good one, it never felt as though they were going too far. I mean they could have sold more but then you have a slower paced 30 minute main event I’ll take the fast pace over a mediocre attempt at selling more in this context. Finish is what it is. The explanation on Talking Smack was pretty cute until you remember that he came out first when AJ had the match won atop the Ladder. The crowd popping for it is the signal that something is badly wrong with that program. One of the better WWE matches this year but this SD roster is just way too thin and lacking in over talent to be running a monthly PPV by themselves.

*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Up until the Goldberg/Nash Starrcade contract signing on Nitro.

Goldberg comes out first and has to stand in the ring to wait on Nash, which is backwards IMO. Nash looks like an idiot with the funny faces and brings this down tbh. 

Bigelow is at ringside and tries to get involved but is held back by security. Bam Bam/Goldberg then do a great little brawl outside at the end of the show.

I mean, fuck Nash, Goldberg/Bigelow is what's hot now. It's great for now but we all know it's Nash at Starrcade and it's odd that they do this now, as good as it is.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

And now, it is time for my last five star match review. Today, I will be looking at the bloodbath that is Bret Hart vs Steve Austin. 

*Wrestlemania 13: Steve Austin vs Bret Hart Submission Match*

Is it five star worthy: Yes (duh).

This match is the definition of greatness. If you want to know what's great about pro wrestling, this is it. If you want to know how to do pro wrestling right, this is it. If you want to know about a time where WWE did absolutely NOTHING WRONG, this is it. At this point, a better question would be, how is it not five star worthy?

Remember that story about the younger me who thought Owen/Bret Steel Cage was a boring match? Well, that dumbass version of me also thought this was a shit match growing up. And, like the cage match, I still can't wrap my head around why I thought that. Lets just be thankful my mindset changed and lets get this review under way.

The idea of this match is absolutely brilliant. It's a no DQ submission match. How do you make that great? By having two guys who have gimmicks that supposedly thrive off of those concepts. Remember that Edge/Taker Hell in a Cell match I referenced back in the review about the HIAC match between Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker? Edge brought in tables, ladders and chairs to level the uneven playing field he was on since he was fighting Taker in his backyard. Hell in a Cell was the Undertaker's thing, and Edge brought in a equalizer to give him a fighting chance. Well, this is arguably where that ideology started (probably started sooner but quite frankly no one probably remembers when and no one would probably care to find out). On one side, you have Bret Hart who is a technician and has a submission move as his finisher. Working on a body part in order to make his submission moves more effective, that's Bret Hart's thing. Well, this Austin guy is a brawler who likes to stomp the living shit out of people and is capable of taking a beating. That's where the no DQ stipulation comes in. 

And the way they do it is fucking brilliant. 

Right from the start, this is an all out brawl. During that fight on the outside, both guys had their moments, but Austin always seemed to have the upper hand. Eventually Austin does take the advantage when they get away from the crowd and we see some early indications of what I'm talking about. Austin goes up to the ring apron and waits for Bret to get up after he was driven into the steel chair (EDIT: steps, fuck you I'm tired). When he's up, Austin jumps off the apron and hits a flying forearm shot. It's not crisp, it's not pretty looking, and yet in a way, it's beautiful to watch. It's exactly how you would expect Austin to perform in this. It's how he should perform. Eventually, Bret takes back the advantage and starts working on Austin's leg.

That's where the difference I was referring to comes in. All of a sudden, the dynamic changes. Bret Hart has the advantage and now we were back to a smarter, more fluent and more stylized type of wrestling. Rather than seeing the brawling aspect, we are now seeing the technical aspect, with Bret using what he knows to perform creative and crafty ways of hurting Austin's leg. And eventually, he embraces the no DQ concept and does his famous figure four leg lock on the ring post spot that I'm sure we all know of. Get used to those moments folks, there's a lot of them here.

In fact, there's one in particular I want to talk about. It's a bit after that spot where Bret grabs a steel chair and tries to use it to cause further damage to Austin's leg. He puts Austin's damaged leg in the chair and goes up to the top turnbuckle. What results is one of the greatest counters I've ever seen. It's so incredible that I actually decided to get a gif of it.










So what's so special about this spot? Why is it so brilliant? Well, for a couple reasons actually. For starters, remember that part about how Austin embraces the no DQ aspect of this match? Here, Bret has been working on Austin's leg sticking to what he knows wrestling a more technically sound match. Hell, he took the advantage away from Austin in the first place by doing a swinging neckbreaker. Here, Bret now chooses to bring a chair into the occasion, opening himself up to Austin's world. And he pays the price for it. But not only that, Austin's selling is absolutely on point, which leads to the second point. Look at how Austin walks. You can tell as he walks towards Hart with the chair that he's not totally right. And that makes sense given that Bret just did a good amount of damage to Austin's leg the past few minutes. Austin even loses his balance as he hits Bret with the chair. He has to bounce off the rope after he hits Bret just to regain his balance. That's fucking brilliant. That tells you that he's in a hurry to get to Bret with the chair so he can smash Bret's skull in with it, but you can tell he's still selling the damage in the process. And at the very end of the gif, you can see Austin go back to full on limping once he regains his balance. It is truly an incredible sequence. That, and for once the guy on the turnbuckle gets hit almost immediately after the person is back on his feet, so he doesn't look like a brain dead idiot sitting there on the turnbuckle waiting for the other guy to do something.

At this point, Austin retakes the advantage and the signs of a face turn start. He does a face routine comeback, and works through the pain showing that it's not going to stop him from giving Bret an ass kicking. He even tries some submission moves. They're not fully locked in correctly, and Bret's able to get out of them easily. And that makes sense considering how submissions aren't really Austins thing. Bret's heel turn starts to happen here as he uses an eye poke to get out of the boston crab submission, something the crowd doesn't like. That's another aspect of this match that is incredibly well done, the double turn. And I know it's finalized with the finish and we'll get to that in a moment, but they do a little of little things in the build up to that moment that really put the double turn into motion. Bret poking Austin in the eye, continuously punching Austin's busted open head, showing very little regard for Austin's safety. And then with Austin, slowly creeping towards a face turn, still does one or two heelish things to remind the crowds of what the wrestlers roles are, at least for the moment. My point is, they don't go overboard with it. They keep things consistent, but show hints that both wrestlers are changing right in front of their very own eyes. 

And then of course, there's the finish. Considered by some to be the greatest finish to a wrestling match in the history of Pro Wrestling, this moment is legendary. We've all seen it too. A bloodied Austin in a sharpshooter screaming in pain as Bret Hart tries to make him submit. Austin never gives up, and instead passes out from the pain, thus losing the match and completing his face turn. 

But I want to talk about the moment that completed Bret Hart's heel turn. 

See, one thing I didn't mention before is that Ken Shemrock is the special guest referee for this match. And I honestly think that the only reason he was made the referee was for this one moment (that and to make sure the crowd is backed up while Austin and Bret brawl in the crowd, which I must say he did an incredible job). Well, after the match while Ken is checking on an unconscious Steve Austin, Bret decides to walk over to Austin and continue the assault on him. Ken isn't happy with this, and tries to make him stop. After a few attempts, Ken decides "fuck this" and picks up Bret and body slams him onto the mat away from Austin. And it was awesome. It made the crowd pop like crazy, and it pretty much confirmed from this moment going forward that Bret was in fact a heel. Bret's reaction to this was perfect as well. Bret stares down Ken, threatening to punch him but decides not to when he sees that Ken is ready for a fight. The look on Bret's face when they cut to him looking back at Ken still gives me goosebumps to this day. It's the kind of acting we rarely see anymore in Pro Wrestling. 

Sorry Shawn/Taker Hell in a Cell, but you're not the greatest pro wrestling match of all time. That title goes to this match. And it's not an insult to be considered worse than this. This is pro wrestling at it's absolute best. The in ring action, the selling, the pacing, the story, it was all superb. It helped turn the man who went on to arguably be the greatest pro wrestler in history into a babyface star. The finish to this match was perfectly executed. Both guys played their roles to absolute perfection. It is a moment in pro wrestling that will simply never be topped. This is without a doubt the best match in the careers of both men, and it is without a doubt WWF's shining star, it's Michael Jordan of Pro Wrestling. This is, in all things considered, the greatest match ever.

So all in all, Meltzer's given five matches in WWE a five star rating. I agreed on all except for one, and even then, I don't think he's wrong at all for thinking that one was five star worthy. We both have differing views on matches and in all honesty, I would have no problem with anyone calling Bret/Owen a five star match. It's not one for me, but either way, it's a classic. Regardless though, as far as five star matches go, I know we give Meltzer a lot of shit for his ratings system (I mean, come on, a ****1/4 for Shield/Wyatt? :mj4), but when it comes to these five matches, apart from Owen/Bret he's pretty much on point here. These are the kinds of matches you can look at and think they are in fact five star worthy. Even if Meltzer might overlook other matches or underlook some others, if I were doing a list for WWE's greatest matches of all time, these would definitely be on it. They are truly classics and the best of their own kind. It'll be an interesting day when the next five star match in Meltzer's opinion happens in WWE, when ever that may be. Hopefully it doesn't take as long as it did for the fifth one to happen. Either way, it's an interesting dynamic of Meltzer that I've always been curious about. In the end, I won't always agree with him, just like I didn't fully agree with him here. But if there's one thing I can agree with him on, it's that these are all fantastic matches and they deserve the praise they get. 

Shawn/Taker: *****
Owen/Bret: ****1/2
Punk/Cena: *****
Shawn/Razor: *****
Austin/Bret: *****

Hope you guys enjoyed my reviews!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Figured I'd chime in, even though I'm over a week late on actually mentioning it: really, REALLY liked Swann vs Kendrick from the first 205 Live. Far, far from a perfect type show, but it seemed to at least zero in on the championship and the two involved as big deals. Which I absolutely enjoyed from this current garbage product. Swann was a great underdog, Kendrick did all the neat heel vet stuff, best Cruiserweight match post CWC for my money. Was a little put off that a super Slice Bread can't win a match, but given Swann's performance and that he'd come away w/the tough victory, I can live w/it. They followed it up nicely, so that was good. Dug the three Rich Kick spot. It seemed totally natural to go to the well that much to keep Kendrick down, instead of indie overkill nonsense. b/c quite frankly, when he went for the cover, I wasn't sure if Kendrick was actually close enough to the ropes or if Swann would get the upset. I knew Kendrick couldn't get the shoulders up b/c c'mon, THREE kicks was a lot. Sure enough something had to give. New champ. Good for Swann, he's buckets of fun. A proper babyface to keep in the thick of the division for a long time. Now idk if it was a paper run and he dropped it last night, but in due time whenever I watch episode number two. Very good stuff here. 

Other notes: Aries is awful on commentary. You can tell people are in his ear and it is not natural. Maybe he can grow w/the WWE style, but that first night was rough. Especially w/that three man booth, which wasn't a smart move. I want to be ok w/Graves, yet he still is doing that annoying thing where one match he marks for heels, then the next he's for the babyface. Consistency, pal.

Bollywood Boyz are trash. I do hate that the division seems to only focus on the faces, while the heels flounder. Ok, maybe not Kendrick, but he lost on the same show where all the other heels did. It only puts so much into perspective. Either stick w/Nese and Gulak as credible jobbers or put them over. Pick a side. But the BB's should def stay as the babyface jobbers like they were from the start.

Gallagher is back and I'm so into it. Seeing him enter in front of a non ultra smark crowd was p. surreal. Audience seemed to a kick out of his stuff. A proper showacase match. I've enjoyed Daivari since being used on the main roster. He's a good jobber heel for the division, lets his opponents get their stuff over well, his brief offensive flurries are nicely timed. He's got his role down. Maybe down the line he can rise up as a different challenge towards the championship, but right now, he's in the logical position. A fun time.

Where's Fabian Aichner? Booourns.



Brock said:


> Up until the Goldberg/Nash Starrcade contract signing on Nitro.
> 
> Goldberg comes out first and has to stand in the ring to wait on Nash, which is backwards IMO. *Nash looks like an idiot with the funny faces and brings this down tbh. *
> 
> ...


Legit the Wolfpac in a nutshell. TERRIBLE faction.

Did you like the Goldberg vs Triple B match from SuperBrawl '99? iirc, while their feud was great, the match was rather disappointing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Figured I'd chime in, even though I'm over a week late on actually mentioning it: really, REALLY liked Swann vs Kendrick from the first 205 Live. Far, far from a perfect type show, but it seemed to at least zero in on the championship and the two involved as big deals. Which I absolutely enjoyed from this current garbage product. Swann was a great underdog, Kendrick did all the neat heel vet stuff, best Cruiserweight match post CWC for my money. Was a little put off that a super Slice Bread can't win a match, but given Swann's performance and that he'd come away w/the tough victory, I can live w/it. They followed it up nicely, so that was good. Dug the three Rich Kick spot. It seemed totally natural to go to the well that much to keep Kendrick down, instead of indie overkill nonsense. b/c quite frankly, when he went for the cover, I wasn't sure if Kendrick was actually close enough to the ropes or if Swann would get the upset. I knew Kendrick couldn't get the shoulders up b/c c'mon, THREE kicks was a lot. Sure enough something had to give. New champ. Good for Swann, he's buckets of fun. A proper babyface to keep in the thick of the division for a long time. Now idk if it was a paper run and he dropped it last night, but in due time whenever I watch episode number two. Very good stuff here.
> 
> Other notes: Aries is awful on commentary. You can tell people are in his ear and it is not natural. Maybe he can grow w/the WWE style, but that first night was rough. Especially w/that three man booth, which wasn't a smart move. I want to be ok w/Graves, yet he still is doing that annoying thing where one match he marks for heels, then the next he's for the babyface. Consistency, pal.
> 
> ...


I remember watching it a while back and I think Bigelow worked on Goldberg's leg for a bit, Goldberg hit his shit and there wasn't much else IIRC. Ill get to it again soon in my Goldberg run tho.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Through a kind person, 

Got the Mark Henry Hall of Pain pack 

:mark:

Double Post worthy me thinks hil


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... Taz!!! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-taz/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kevin Nash/Goldberg Starrcade 1998 Contract Signing + Goldberg/Bigelow Brawl Outside (WCW Monday Nitro 11/30/98)*

x54pmbd

Upped the Starrcade segment as i didn't see it online. Again, Bill/Bam was the best part.



Big Cal's World said:


> 5 Matches With... Taz!!! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-taz/


I need to check out the Taz/Bigelow feud and matches soon TBH. Same with the Bigelow/RVD matches too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I only seem to remember an overlong chinlock sequence, instead of Bigelow doing other damage on Goldberg to get more heat. Which was like, what's the deal? Nash ended up having better matches vs Goldberg. 

At least Bam Bam got something AWESOME vs Hak later on in the year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's a shame their eventual match ended up disappointing TBH, because there was enough hype in the build right now to make the crowds want it to happen ASAP, TBH. Esp after Bigelow debuted, a feud/match with Bill was what they wanted.

---------------------










This was the ending to the Nitro before Starrcade 1998, you know, with Goldberg/Nash. It was Hall vs Goldberg in the main event, then Nash come out, just watched for a bit, before doing this. then Bigelow interfered, who has been the best part of the build TBH. Nash did cut a promo on Goldberg earlier in the night, but yeah.

Onto Starrcade now...........


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starrcade 98 is a weird show. Or well, it does what WCW seemed to rarely do, deliver w/the upper card, and flop w/its cancer laden undercard. But all that filler on it sucks, too. It's a struggle to get to the last hour, then it's fun.

DDP vs Giant :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm a sucker for those WCW Cruiserweights, so I naturally really liked the opener; Juventud Guerrera/Rey Mysterio Jr/Kidman tbh.

Can't remember much else from the show. Apart from the main finish of course.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did any of you guys ever watch the Attitude Era Vol. 3 Unreleased set?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Did any of you guys ever watch the Attitude Era Vol. 3 Unreleased set?


Watched half way through the first disc, really need to finish the set off soon. Watched the first ever televised Taker/Mankind match, a good Austin/Bret match from Germany and a fun Taker/Bret vs Owen Hart/British Bulldog tag, that gave us this wonderful image:










Despite the non commentary, it's still great to have all these unreleased matches finally released TBH. Looking forward to getting to Austin/HBK and the never seen Mankind/HBK match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Quick question before I hibernate from wrasslin' again: what's the WM 33 card looking like? Cause, me being a wrasslin' fan(ish), I feel obligated to watch WM every year, but I care so little about wrasslin' at this moment that any HHH/Reigns'eses of the world will make me wish suicidal thoughts. Please tell me it's looking good...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Quick question before I hibernate from wrasslin' again: what's the WM 33 card looking like? Cause, me being a wrasslin' fan(ish), I feel obligated to watch WM every year, but I care so little about wrasslin' at this moment that any HHH/Reigns'eses of the world will make me wish suicidal thoughts. Please tell me it's looking good...


Well it's too early to really predict anything. Some of the bigger matches they rumored to have planned or want to try and plan (HHH/Rollins and others) may happen at the Rumble instead of Mania. They're running in the Alamodome for the Rumble so they need to get 60,000 fans to fill it. Basically like another Mania.

There's also gonna be two PPVs between the Rumble and Mania this year (Elimination Chamber and Fastlane) so things are probably gonna change even by next month or so.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Quick question before I hibernate from wrasslin' again: what's the WM 33 card looking like? Cause, me being a wrasslin' fan(ish), I feel obligated to watch WM every year, but I care so little about wrasslin' at this moment that any HHH/Reigns'eses of the world will make me wish suicidal thoughts. Please tell me it's looking good...


I have not watched weekly WWE television since late September and only watch the PPVs at this point, but from what I gather, it seems like it's gonna be:

Cena/Taker
Lesnar/Goldberg
Rollins/HHH
Reigns/Balor

as the top-4 matches. If Jericho sticks around I guess you can throw Jericho/Owens in there. Joe's bound to be called up and Smackdown needs some depth, so I think Joe/Ambrose, Joe/Miz, or Ambrose/Miz can be slotted in there. Styles needs a high-profile opponent... if Jericho doesn't stick around maybe Styles/Owens. It'd be shitty for Styles to drop down after his run though. Something with Orton-Wyatt, whether against each other or as a team. Becky/Nikki or Becky/Mickie I'm guessing, a multi-man match for a mid-card title, a combo of Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte for the Women's title on Raw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

roud


















:bunk

Match is pretty good TBH up until the finish. Goldberg sold the taser shot pretty well, too.

Still - *THE STREAK IS FUCKING OVER*

Going to take a break from this project and resume at a later date. Think i'll start that Hall Of Pain pack, considering i have never seen any of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Think i'll start that Hall Of Pain pack, considering i have never seen any of it.




Where the fuck were you during SD 2011?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On my wrestling hiatus  Watched bits and pieces but not that tbh.

Didn't really start watching again full time until later that year. Obviously I've gone back and watched a lot of shit I missed, but not everything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Well it's too early to really predict anything. Some of the bigger matches they rumored to have planned or want to try and plan (HHH/Rollins and others) may happen at the Rumble instead of Mania. They're running in the Alamodome for the Rumble so they need to get 60,000 fans to fill it. Basically like another Mania.
> 
> There's also gonna be two PPVs between the Rumble and Mania this year (Elimination Chamber and Fastlane) so things are probably gonna change even by next month or so.





RatedR10 said:


> I have not watched weekly WWE television since late September and only watch the PPVs at this point, but from what I gather, it seems like it's gonna be:
> 
> Cena/Taker
> Lesnar/Goldberg
> ...


Doesn't look too good, there. I literally couldn't give less of a shit about most of the matches y'all dropped  Cena/Taker is about 5 years too later, Lesnar/Goldberg is like the 3rd fucking time and it sucked twice before (though one was for lack of trying, the other was for lack of time, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that this time we see a REAL Lesnar/Goldberg), HHH/Rollins... could be good I guess. And everything else I just don't give a shit at all. Sasha/Bayley should be the women's match, though, or at least one of the many we'll surely see. Don't Owens/Zayn them and throw 'em in a Goddamn multiwoman match, give them a fucking one-on-one spot.

But wow, the Royal Rumble in a 60k arena? Damn, that's a risk. *looks up that it's the 30th Royal Rumble* Oh okay, that kinda makes sense. Will be hilarious to see everyone exhaust themselves out as they run down the ramp in the Royal Rumble match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@ATF it's the same arena they ran the Rumble in '97 if that helps you get a visual.

There's also some serious talk about running Taker vs. AJ Styles for the WWE Title in the next few months as well (probably the Rumble but idk). That has to get you excited... right?  Taker returned to TV a few weeks back and said something along the lines of him being back but not just to wrestle one match a year, so who knows when we'll see him again.

Reigns vs. Strowman for the U.S. Title has also been rumored too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> @ATF it's the same arena they ran the Rumble in '97 if that helps you get a visual.
> 
> There's also some serious talk about running Taker vs. AJ Styles for the WWE Title in the next few months as well (probably the Rumble but idk). That has to get you excited... right?  Taker returned to TV a few weeks back and said something along the lines of him being back but not just to wrestle one match a year, so who knows when we'll see him again.
> 
> Reigns vs. Strowman for the U.S. Title has also been rumored too.


.... meh. Not really, it doesn't. A few years ago, it was an amazing dream match to me. Now.... I care so little that I just find it to be a "cool, I guess" scenario.

And Reigns/Strowman... :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Corey said:


> @ATF Reigns vs. Strowman for the U.S. Title has also been rumored too.


Don't tell that to someone who is taking a break, they will never come back lolol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bret Hart vs Diamond Dallas Page (WCW Monday Nitro 10/26/98)*

xmvsle

Really good Nitro main event, here. Spot the idiot in the crowd during Buffer's initial ring announcment.

Oh, and speaking of Buffer;

Bret 'The Hitman'...........................Clark?

:bunk

WTF was that about?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/779960242901618688
Saw this mentioned elsewhere. That 5 star Sheepherders/Fantastics Crockett Cup match. match that nobody has seen in full.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WHAT


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erik. said:


> One of my favourite highlights from the HALL OF PAIN run :lol


I'm actually just to this point now watching this Hall of Pain pack.

"Why you playing music"? "You find it funny"? "What does this do"?

Wham!!!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"WHAT DOES THIS DO?" *smashes it* "IT DON'T DO NUFFIN' NOW"


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Crocket Cup 1987 I know has been released in full - more so than what was on commercial release. Commercial releases for the CC's were cut down to 2 hours, sadly. WWE's blocked the first half, now, but you can still see Windham/Flair in unedited glory.

Pretty sure Meltzer was just mentioning the commercial releases. WWE has the full tapes, and I'm sure it'll see the light of day, soon enough. They're scheduling more Holy Grail DVDs, aren't they?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wasn't aware that more of the Crockett Cup had possibly been released tbh. I do have the raw footage of the event still myself that, that link is from tho.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Totally forgot Shane did a SSP at King of the Ring against Angle. 

I do fucking still love this match tho. The work they both put in is crazy, and you have to respect Angle for giving him so much. Found an article from this year where Kurt still remembers what went down;



> Angle spoke to WrestleTalkTV recently about the insane nature of Angle's match with Shane McMahon at King of the Ring. Angle talked about having to throw his boss' son through a window repeatedly.
> 
> "He kept telling me every time I kept throwing him through that wall and the glass didn't go anywhere, do it again. I said 'no,' and he was swearing. It wasn't that Shane was my boss, but I felt like he was my boss. He was the guy telling me what to do and when to do it," Angle said.
> 
> ...


Plus this was Kurt's third match of the night too. There's a great extra on the DVD where they both talk about the match.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Just watched Uncensored 97. One of the greatest PPV endings ever. Sting wrecks the entire NWO's shit while everyone goes fucking nuts for his every move, including the commentators.

Dusty: ALL HELL HAS BROKEN LOOSE AT UNCENSORED, AND HELL BROUGHT WITH HIM A BASEBALL BAT(GOAT Dusty call)
Schiavone: *absolutely losing his shit* WE GOTTA GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, GOODNIGHT FROM CHARLESTOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN

Awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That pop Sting gets :banderas

Watched the main event of KOTR; Austin/Benoit/Jericho. Is this underrated, because it's a very good match tbh. All of them work extra hard and take some big bumps. I mean, Austin does two superplexes then straight after, takes 5 german suplexes from Benoit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The ending to Uncensored 97 is the only part of the show that isn't a trainwreck. I recently watched Ultimo vs Psychosis. Backyard level bullshit. T'was massively embarrassing. That PPV franchise always brought out the worst in the company.

Also, Dusty's commentary is an A plus, plus per usual. HE HEET HIM W/A COMMODE LEEEEEEEEED.

---------------

For some painful reason, I'm watching various WWE stuff circa 2010 in the middle of rummaging through other DVD sets I own (you'd think watching the RAW Best of Seasons one and two would compel me to only talk about DOINK and how phenomenal Borne is during the run or how much I love Razor/Martel IC title), and despite the AWFUL stuff that's there, thankfully guys like Drew McIntyre, CM Punk, Christian, and Taker are around to keep me from going insane. Still love the McIntyre vs Hardy match from May, but I think the *second* McIntyre vs Christian match is the best, non Masters match for Drew on the year. Whole point of this was I was curious to start writing up little tidbits on the matches I watched from these, only talking about what I liked to spare me the rants where I use ALL CAPS AND FOUL LANGUAGE. Thus to make sure the passion I'm spewing is less w/worthless individuals and matches, b/c who needs to read about the one billionth example of why Kofi Kingston horrendous, right?

I'll probably watch McIntyre vs Christian again for fun and to get myself motivated to do this b/c I actually want to. Or I'll finally start a blog. Thinking aloud here. Side note: Undertaker vs Kane from NOC 2010 is GREAT. :mark:


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Who could ever forget THE DOOMSDAY TRIPLE CAGE MATCH in 96? 8*D8*D8*D Eat your heart out, WarGames.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KOTR 01 triple threat is fucking garbage.

NOC Taker/Kane is AWESOME. Just rewatched it :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Had a semi meltdown trying to sit through the Doomsday Cage match the last time I watched the PPV. (we can lol smiley about this, it's ok) It defies all points of logic and sanity.

Was waiting for Cal to chime in on how he hates that match, yet never tells us why. But at least I urged him to watch another Taker match out of a cb discussion. :cal2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was NOC their NHB match? Think I've seen one of their 2010 matches but not sure which one now tbh. Ill have to see if i have the PPV matches on DVD tho.....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, NOC was the No Holds Barred match. Those two go ham for nearly 20 minutes. :cozy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Steve Austin Vs Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Championship Match*

So, if HHH didn't get injured... would this have been a 4 way? A tag with everything on the line like Backlash? Or would just one of them (Benoit hopefully) have gotten a title match with the other (Jericho, duh) going up against HHH?

"Rumours" all night going around that if Benoit or Jericho win the title tonight they are defecting to WCW. You know, WCW. That company that is literally just a logo and a few guys on contracts. No shows or anything. BUT THEY NEED A CHAMPION. LOL.

AUSTIN GETTING KNIFE EDGED TO DEATH~!

Urgh. This is dull. Just a lot of stomping in the corner. Then Jericho gets suplexed out of the ring and disappears for about 10 minutes while Benoit and Austin do... absolutely nothing noteworthy beyond Benoit hitting Austin with a Stunner, and the revelation that Austin can't take his own finisher properly .

Austin tries for a Walls of Jericho on Jericho but Jericho knows how to block it, and fuck, Austin ends up going head first into the mat and you can see he's pissed as he smashes his fist onto the mat. STUPID, STUPID! 

And we're back to dull again.

Benoit brings in a chair. "THIS IS NOT A NO DQ MATCH!". He decks Jericho by accident. Ref doesn't give a shit. LOL.

Austin starts superplexing Jericho from all the corners, but gets stopped by Benoit on the third. Always liked that little spot in Jericho and Austin's singles match at NWO 02.

Austin taps out! To BOTH Benoit and Jericho at the same time. So uhh... both are champions? They did it with the IC title in 2000. Why not the WWF Title in 2001? 

BOOKER T! He attacks Austin and puts him through a table, and injures Austin, something I didn't know about until the Austin doc last year (or the year before? I dunno)! Way to go Booker, not only do you suck but you just injured the top guy in WWF.

Worst. Lionsault. Ever.

MOONSAULT by Jericho. Not often we see that. You know, Lionsault aside which is essentially a moonsault.

BACK SUPERPLEX. BYE BYE BENOIT'S NECK.

Never realised that the suplex that takes Benoit's neck out happens right at the very end of the match. He hits the move, he doesn't move, Austin covers him and that's that.

Bulk of this match is soooo fucking dull. Had its moments no doubt but overall kinda blows. Hard.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No doubt there are some dull moments where even the crowd is really flat too because of it, but I still liked it tbh. Austin took some big bumps in the match that probably bumped my rating up a notch. Not saying it's a top 5 triple threat tho.  Had its moments tho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A lot of stomping in the corner sounds like "Attitude Era" bread and butter, when you take notice. :hmm:

Watch Cena vs Angle from Unforgiven 05 again so you can have a review on it. Realize how Angle giving Cena NO space in between pinfalls/transitions is terrific. He's so grounded and focused, it's the Kurt we wished we got every night.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really like the Angle/Cena match at No Mercy 2003, TBH. Bet others are going to commence to shit on it, but


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Match*

:lmao at Lawler trying to sound all smart and shit, by asking if either JR or Coach could remember who Cena's debut match in WWE was against. Without missing a beat JR quickly answers "Angle" and Lawler is just SILENT :lmao. As if JIM FUCKING ROSS wouldn't know that :lmao.

So Angle out-wrestles Cena at the start. Cena tries to turn it into a brawl. Then Angle starts throwing out suplexes. You know the deal if you've seen any match they've had lol.

I like how Cena comes into this match with a "bad" ankle, and it's all taped up and shit, and Angle clearly looks at it before the bells rings... then doesn't do a damn thing with the ankle until like 15 minutes into the match when he randomly goes for an Ankle Lock... but Cena kicks him off so he decides against going back to it until his Angle Slam fails him AS USUAL :lmao.

:lmao at Cena hopping on one leg for the 5 knuckle shuffle. On one hand I'm happy he's selling the ankle... but on the other hand I find it unbelievably fucking stupid he tried to do that move on one leg :lmao.

F-U~! Oh but look the referee is down.

PUNCH TO THE FACE WITH THE GOLD MEDAL :lmao.

ANKLE LOCK~!

BISCHOFF SHOWS UP AND... shoves the WWE title in Cena's face and tells him to say goodbye lol.

Bischoff tries to pull a screwjob on Cena, but Cena shoves Angle off and Bischoff takes the worst bump through the ropes ever.

WWE TITLE TO THE FACE~! :lmao the referee saw it and Cena is DQ'd :lmao.

Giant load of MEH.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I told you to watch it again, not just post the review like you did in the chatbox :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Does Cal ever shit on a Undertaker match? Really curious here.

Does anyone like the Austin/Angle/RVD triple threat from No Mercy 2001? I love the whole Austin/Angle series, including this triple threat.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I had to remember what I thought of Kane/Take NOC, then I remembered I wrote about every 2010 PPV. I thought it was pretty good, apparently. It's been since June 2015 that I worked on that list. Fuck sake dude.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't seen that triple threat in years, but ill get to it at some point as I'm going to continue my WWF 2001 viewing now I've finally watched KOTR.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

No Mercy 2001 is a pretty good event as a whole. Hardy Boyz vs Lance Storm and The Hurricane for WCW tag titles, Edge vs Christian ladder match for intercontinental title, Chris Jericho vs The Rock for WCW title and that triple threat I mentioned.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forgot about Y2J/Rock. I really, really like their RR '02 match, so i'll see how NM compares.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

There's even a Booker T vs Undertaker match on it that is decent I think. I may re watch this PPV tonight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad Jheri found a way to chime in w/his 2010 project.

As for No Mercy 01:

I've always had a good time w/the Austin vs Angle vs RVD match. Some didn't care for the finish having the McMahons in the fold. It never seemed to bother me much. At least, it led to a more memorable JR line than the finish happened to be. "Austin is leaving as WWF Champion b/c Mr. McMahon was beating the hell out of his own son to notice." Triple Threat matches are touchy, but as of right now, I'm cool w/it. I can only trust my memory so far b/c maybe there's a stupid spot or two that'll bug me tons now, rather than years ago I probably didn't even notice.

Never liked the Edge vs Christian ladder match. Something is just off w/it. Not dreadful, yet not /memorable either. Mediocrity. This is recently confirmed slamming through the Ladder match set. Which was terrible to watch w/BLURS, mind you. I own the unedited show on DVD and I still did this. Gah.

Always loved Jericho vs Rock matches from their program in 01 - 02.

Hardys vs Storm and Hurricane was a breezy opener. Liked that, too.

Taker vs Booker was p. bad. Go figure this is where I end my praise, when the Taker match shows up. Basically his PPV run during the stuff w/the Alliance is below par to what he's used to. Then he gets right back in top territory at Vengeance vs RVD in that excellent Hardcore match.

The real treat on No Mercy 01 though? KANE VS TEST :mark: Hoss fight, yo.

Then there's the Lingerie match which is...what it is. And a Dudleys vs Tajiri and Show match I have absolutely zero opinion on. Those names...it has to be solid. Right? Tajiri especially wants me to believe so.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> Forgot about Y2J/Rock. I really, really like their RR '02 match, so i'll see how NM compares.


It's even better imo. A near classic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

New Day vs. Rollins & Reigns vs. Owens & Jericho for the Tag Titles last night was _really_ good. The best RAW match I've seen in quite some time and something you wouldn't have expected to see.

At this point, no one really deserves to take the titles off of New Day. :lol They've beaten anyone and everyone on so many occasions. Revival or bust imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WCW JUST MAIN EVENTED MONDAY NIGHT RAW BA GAWD

8*D

Well half main evented, as it was interrupted for a half naked Vince skit

Enough of that, here's Regal










20 days until Invasion.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

I am going back over matches for my MOTY, and it's probably Zayn vs Nakamura. However when listing my top matches Undertaker vs Shane came to mind, anyone else like this match as much as me or am i the only one :lol?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shaun_27 said:


> I am going back over matches for my MOTY, and it's probably Zayn vs Nakamura. However when listing my top matches *Undertaker vs Shane came to mind, anyone else like this match as much as me or am i the only one* :lol?


:yes

I loved it personally and it would end up being in my top 10 on the year for WWE. Nakamura/Zayn, Reigns/AJ from Extreme Rules, a couple CWC matches, Owens/Zayn from Battleground, Styles/Ambrose from Backlash, and those Revival/DIY tags are the only things I can say are definitely above it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Shaun_27 said:


> I am going back over matches for my MOTY, and it's probably Zayn vs Nakamura. However when listing my top matches Undertaker vs Shane came to mind, anyone else like this match as much as me or am i the only one :lol?


I'm not even sure I have that one on my list.

As for my MOTY, I think I have it as Miz/Ziggler from one of the SD PPVs, I think Backlash at this point.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my favorite bits of watching WWF 2001 up until now :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now that's how you take out the Aliance


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

His dives got so much better as he got older. Crazy how he got better as he aged in the mid-and-late 2000s into the early 2010s.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

good finish as well. I would've liked the ref to have been more orderly there but within the setup, that was a nice match to kick this off and I like how ingenuity and grey line wins got the New Day their title and ingenuity/grey area stuff lost them the belts. 

*** 1/2ish. nice and solid. By the way, the physical capabilities of Cesaro never cease to amaze. That man's body pays off his hard training for sure.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This show sucked for the most part. It felt like a televised house show right down to the babyfaces standing tall everyone-go-home-happy ending.

Tag Titles - ***1/4
Zayn/Strowman - *3/4
Jericho/Rollins - ***
Perkins/Swann/Kendrick - ** mark: FOR HEEL NEVILLE THOUGH... who got the biggest pop of anyone in the CW division ever)
Sasha/Charlotte - **1/2
Owens/Reigns - **3/4

fuck your 5-minute headlock, Owens. I guess not everyone can be AJ Styles and carry Roman Reigns to a MOTYC though.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> This show sucked for the most part. It felt like a televised house show right down to the babyfaces standing tall everyone-go-home-happy ending.
> 
> Tag Titles - ***1/4
> Zayn/Strowman - *3/4
> ...


cool, sounds like a good skip


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i was bored by most of this show


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Sasha-Charlotte match had the persistent problem of Sasha Banks not delivering a good performance when she's booked to lose. Sure, she bled the hard way and took some nasty bumps. But there is a day and night difference between her selling and technique on RAW (when booked to win) and PPVs (when booked to lose). Once she gets past this, she can be top level imo.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

The show felt like a wresting driver edition of Raw which isn't a bad thing with how great the standards of tv matches have been these past weeks.

New Day vs. Cesaro/Sheamus - ***
Rollins vs. Jericho - ***
Sasha vs. Charlotte - ***3/4
Roman vs. Owens - ***1/2

I genuienly believe in 10 years time people will be raving about the Charlotte/Sasha matches. Had the first 15 minutes been better it could have been higher.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So we're getting Owens vs. Reigns at the Rumble with Jericho hung above the ring in a shark tank. (N) What's even the purpose of the U.S. Title right now?

But I guess this means Reigns won't be in the Rumble maybe...?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Cass/Rusev was really weird. Cass has this perception of being great as a part of Enzo’s act but nobody really either wants to see him pushed as a singles guy or thinks he can work a singles match. So naturally in his first big singles match they book a DUD of a match that gets going in a literal sense but never actually has chance to actually get going.

New Day tag was really good. Could have been great if they actually sold the stories they were telling though. They have Cesaro start off hot from the get go and New Day for once are really on the backfoot and Cole and co are just calling the moves and talking about how great Cesaro looks rather than selling that this is the most vulnerable New Day have looked this early into a match. They even could have brought up the fact that New Day got caught off guard and conceded a quick fall the previous month at Survivor Series. So they work Kofi over for an extended period and Big E’s on the floor unable to tag in for a couple of spots and then he finally does make the tag and he works the exact same hot tag that he would have done had he been waiting ready on the apron for the entire time. On the plus side he managed to do that spear to the outside without it looking like death for him. Match develops into a really fun sprint at the end. Not this match but Cesaro had an all time great hot tag in the 3 way on the Raw before this show. Cesaro’s pretty good at this wrestling lark. I still can’t believe that we haven’t had a year yet of Cesaro just being given opponent after opponent in the midcard to have truly great matches with. Every year has felt like him having a great in ring year despite only being given the freedom to have a good year. Everyone seems to think that New Day are suddenly working like heels again with the Woods spots but they never stopped the 3rd man heel shtick when they turned babyface. That’s who they are and I actually like that they never dropped it. Just because they’re faces now doesn’t mean that they’re different characters. The babyfaces that don’t completely play by the rules and use that to beat the heels at their own game because they’re better at said game than the heels are is a good babyface act but it’s backfiring atm because they’re doing it on very popular babyface Cesaro. The finish was excellent on paper but it only came across good on TV because once again they didn’t sell the story of it. They just did it and then both teams reacted to the finish and not the spot. The announcers too. Isn’t it common sense for Cesaro and Sheamus to point out their brilliance of outsmarting the team who always outsmart their opponents including Cesaro and Sheamus multiple teams to keep the belts from them. That spot is about that moment not Cesaro celebrating in the crowd and Sheamus celebrating on his own. Instead of it coming off as a moment of brilliance from a reluctant but now well functioning team, it came off more as Cesaro having a great idea and Sheamus following up on it. And then they carry on with the two guys who don’t like each other shtick after the match when this should be the turning point for them as a team and dropping that as the main focus of their act. They should have done this match on Monday and had New Day lose the belts a day short. Because New Day breaking the record has done nothing for anyone because it’s not a memorable reign that people will remember, just the same as Demolition’s reign. But then again they wouldn’t treat that as a big moment to follow up on either.

Braun/Sami was awful. This should have been so easy and instead they got it so wrong. First off this match only works if Sami takes a beating which didn’t even come close to happen. You just can’t work this as a regular match with Braun doing his regular squash match moves. Sami took less of a beating than he would do in a match with Owens. Braun should have been hitting his finish 5 minutes in and then just launching him all over the outside area, through a table, on the ramp, into the steps, the ring post, the whole 9 yards. Instead we ended up with Strowman taking the biggest bumps in the match. WTF? Then Foley comes out dressed in god knows what and puts into action his and Zayn’s dastardly plan to distract Braun for long enough to wind the clock down and recover for a good minute. 1/10th of the time limit! And then the match ends with Zayn about to beat Strowman and the time expires right as Sami’s about to hit the kick for the second time and Sami’s not pissed at the time expiring. He doesn’t carry on attacking Braun and hit the 2nd kick and have to be restrained by Foley. He just takes survival as a victory and then trots off to the back. This should have been so easy to do something for at least one of them and instead it managed to do absolutely nothing for either.

Rollins/Jericho was awful too. Rollins has turned super robotic in the ring. He just does his moves and takes his bumps and that’s it. He’s turning into Finn Balor but without the look and the entrance so basically Finn Balor without any of the value. He actually wrestled as a better babyface when he was supposed to be working as a heel. This match made zero sense looking back on it after the finish of the main event.

Cruiserweights was just nothing. Crowds just do not care and they give them no reason to either. I’m in favour of matches being able to end at any point, especially off a kick to the head but they need to establish that as play in the playbook and not just a sudden finish. Adding Neville to the mix is better late than never but they’ve done borderline irreversible damage to the division with this horrible introduction. Turning him heel was a good move as well because it gives him a nice kick start in the division and it needs a better top heel.

Charlotte/Sasha was excellent. Best WWE match this year and would have been on par with the top few NXT matches this year had they done the finish properly. I know people are sick of them wrestling one another now but I don’t get that outside of fans thinking wrestling has a set of booking rules that are set in stone. The brand split has caused all these programs to be stretched out like this but it’s smart to do it like this because the alternative is they run through absolutely everything by Mania. They probably still will with barely anything left for the division outside of trades after Mania. The amount of title changes isn’t super but it also really doesn’t matter. They did another title change so we could have another great match and the best one yet between the pair of them. Woe me. Match was nothing more than ok for the first 10 with them doing their Guerrero/Malenko routine. Up to the first fall this was just good. Crowd was not into at all but what do you expect when you look at the 3 matches before it. What I like most about these Charlotte/Sasha matches is that everything they do feels impactful. It may not be as crisp or as robotic as a Rollins/Balor match would be but it has grit. Sasha gets flak for her bumping style but I’ll take that over bumping as safe as possible in a way that doesn’t look like it would ever hurt. Also they’ve never badly injured one another on a spot in their matches. Rollins/Balor are one for one. That bump on the stairs looked awesome. Ref kinda killed the impact of the spot a little by staying in the ring and not rushing out to check on Sasha.

Charlotte was out of this world great in this match. May be a bit of hyperbole but I thought it was a masterclass in character work over the course of a match. It reminded me of Austin during his heel run in 2001 the way she seemed obsessed with winning and was muttering to herself after every spot and every now and again she’d lose it and let out an outcry of emotion against Sasha and the fans. And not once did she get cheered! The leg work was awesome. I loved how with 4 minutes left Charlotte didn’t go straight into panic mode and straight into the Figure Four. She made sure that Sasha was crippled before going in for the kill. Leg worked looked nasty too. They did the end of the fourth fall totally wrong though and this is the only thing stopping me from calling it MOTY. It was so easy too. Have Sasha fight it and fight it until it gets down to the final 10 seconds and she either passes out or her shoulders fall to the mat for 3 and she’s so out of it she doesn’t even realise. That way Charlotte wins, Sasha gains by losing in that way and you create the same drama but better going into overtime. Instead Sasha came off as a total moron for tapping with 2 seconds left. Mere mortals wouldn’t have held on for as long as she did but once you’re at that point I’m pretty sure most people would just tough it out for another 2 seconds. And when people will think that it makes your wrestler who should be a larger than life opposite of a mere mortal nothing like that.

Overtime was great. I was listening to Meltzer’s review of the show and him and Bryan were both critical of Charlotte struggling to execute the Figure Four at the very end and it was maybe my favourite part of the match. 30+ minutes in I don’t want her working like she’s 5 minutes in to an easy match. I want it to look like a struggle to get every move executed. I mean I don’t know how intentional that was and how much of it was just genuine struggle but that’s what a 35 minute match between epic rivals should build up to. Did they even mention Charlotte’s PPV streak at the end of the match? It’s a nothing thing but once you brought it up at the last PPV surely you should be driving it home hard here. Charlotte’s had an amazing aura of a genuine star that carries herself as a champion from the moment she debuted in NXT but she keeps getting better and better and this was a good of an individual performance as there’s been in recent memory. One final note on this, those reaction shots are god awful but they actually caught a really great one at the end of this that was perfect. But then they also caught someone pulling a stupid face that totally killed the non existent heat in the match and made everyone laugh. Said it before but the wrestlers should be fuming with this because it diverts attention away from their work and in this case made the crowd giggle during their work. They continue to miss spots doing it and the wrestlers should just be fuming thinking why the fuck am I taking bumps on my body when these idiots in the truck are missing it because they’re cutting to the crowd hoping for someone to pull a goofy face that only takes away from me inflicting pain on my body even more when in one second you undo all the work that I’m trying to do by getting their attention and playing with their emotions by making them giggle by showing someone pulling a stupid face. Fans cottoning on to WWE’s desire for crowd reactions and working them into showing them on the big screen only to do something incredibly immature and vulgar can’t come soon enough.

Main event sucked. Probably the worst main event in recent memory. I mean there’s been some terrible ones but at least you can always say well they tried. I thought the Cena/Owens matches sucked but you can’t say they didn’t work their butts off. They didn’t even try here. I know that the headlock spot is kinda Owens’ thing but god how stupid could everyone be to think that doing several extended resthold spots with Roman Reigns in front of a PPV crowd would be a good idea. Owens could at least back up to the ropes and work the ropes and the ref but I guess that’s against WWE policy to do that. Owens just hasn’t been very good in the ring in WWE. And Reigns is getting worse as an in ring worker and falling into all the critiques that everyone throws at him. Between this and the Rusev matches I’m getting sick of him just spamming the same few moves and not selling and shrugging off the heel’s offence. The Reigns experiment is doing so much harm that I have negative interest in seeing him wrestle now because it’s just going to be a disinterested crowd with a horrible atmosphere. Finish sucked. They started building up some goodwill for main event finishes with Brock/Goldberg and in 2 shows they’ve killed that back dead. Why do people care about these main event matches when the chances of an actual finish that puts one guy over another basically come once or twice a year. As far as doing that finish it was a nice variation of it. But it’s still a better way of doing a bad finish. Owens not being in on it made no sense. Surely the shtick should be they both worked Reigns rather than Jericho worked everyone including Owens which makes him out to be the biggest idiot of the lot. Also feels like they’ve turned Jericho and Owens on one another so many times already that when they do it’s not gonna mean much.

New Day tag was really good. Charlotte/Sasha was brilliant. Everything else was garbage.*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Reigns wins the title at the Rumble, Balor wins the Rumble match. There's your Raw title match for WM.


I hope Rusev squashes Cass like a bug but that won't happen since WWE seems to be full-on the Cass train and transitioning Enzo to a manager role.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Will be funny when Raw's Mania main event is Reigns vs Strowman


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

They need to keep Strowman away from Reigns - if the WWE are serious about both they keep them away from eachother for over a year at the minimum. They HAVE to go with Strowman/Zayn at Wrestlemania. It'd be ridiculous not to.

Zayn somehow eliminates Strowman from the Rumble following a dominant showing. Strowman jumps back in the ring and throws Zayn over the top rope in anger, then continues to beat him up around the ring, throws him through the announce table and knocks him unconscious before walking away. You then continue to build towards Wrestlemania, give them some time, show Zayn as the best underdog babyface he can be but have Strowman ultimately win. You then keep Strowman going through out the year, PERHAPS win the US title in the Summer as I imagine Reigns won't have it by then, you have him defend it as often as he can, make him a dominant mid card champion until Wrestlemania where perhaps ZAYN challenges him and ends up winning. You then push Strowman on. The whole landscape could have changed by then anyway, ALOT changes in 12 months let alone 24.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Made a thread on this, but i'll post it in here, too:

*Hulk Hogan vs. Sgt Slaughter (Desert Storm Match) (MSG 6/3/1991)*

xt1d0f

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt...-slaughter-wwf-title-desert-storm-match_sport

I remember the fued from when i was a kid (was only 10 at the time of this match), but i honestly
don't remember this match at all TBH. Was browsing some matches/segments from the year and came across this. i know this whole angle gets mixed views, due to the nature of it all, but holy fuck this match is LEGIT. I may have watched in all the way back then and just forgot about it, as i do remember the fued of course, but this match just slipped my memory.

I do find their WM match quite underrated, but man, maybe this should happened at either WM or Summerslam TBH, instead of the match made in hell tag match. 

This is seriously a brilliant gimmick match. The sarge gets bloodies up, sells and bumps
his fucking arse off all match, Hogan looks cool as fuck in his military gear going into this too. Just a wild match.

Oh, and this moment will now forever be etched in my mind as GLORIOUS:










Certainly one of Hogan's best in WWF, IMO.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Seabs review made me realize that Roman Reigns has made me look like an idiot on another board lmao. I defended Reigns' in-ring work over the summer, but now he's just spamming moves and being lazy and doing everything people (wrongly) accused him of before so now they're right.

Also have no idea how or who they plan on taking the U.S. Title off Reigns. Maybe a 5-man free for fall between Strowman/Jericho/Owens/Reigns/Rollins on the first Raw of 2017 and then build to Zayn/Strowman for the title at WM? I have no idea. It seems clear like they're on path to have Roman main event AGAIN, so you gotta take the U.S. Title off him at some point. It's just a prop at this point. I don't think he's defended it once against anyone other than Rusev.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think I've seen that particular match between them yet. Might give it a watch soon as I am perhaps thinking of Jan's "5 matches With..." being Sgt Slaughter .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It rules IMHO. I need to watch some 'prime' Slaughter tbh, so yeah, a 5 match watch would be welcomed.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

actually changing my prediction for WM to Strowman costing Reigns the title at the Royal Rumble and setting up Strowman vs. Reigns at WM for the U.S. Title. Although I have a hard time believing they'd send Owens to Wrestlemania as the champ, although, I can see it with Rollins/HHH and Lesnar/Goldberg being the two high-profile matches from the brand tbh...

this is the most I've posted about the current day product in the span of three days since like... August lirl


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah that Desert Storm match is a real gem. I watched it in the Old School section of the Network a couple years back and was really surprised it's never talked about. Seemed like it was way before it's time.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I have just realised the Elimination Chamber is back next year after the Rumble and before Wrestlemania. I wonder if they'll have a US title Elimination Chamber as a way of getting the title off Reigns.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Erik. said:


> I have just realised the Elimination Chamber is back next year after the Rumble and before Wrestlemania. I wonder if they'll have a US title Elimination Chamber as a way of getting the title off Reigns.


IIRC Elimination Chamber will be a Smackdown PPV. RAW gets Fastlane.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Corey said:


> IIRC Elimination Chamber will be a Smackdown PPV. RAW gets Fastlane.


Ah yes, you're right.

I wish WWE just had zero PPVs in between Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania and just aimed to BUILD.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I'll just drop this here. I do a weekly article on PWTorch now. This is the second one. CHECK IT OUT~! 

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/12...learned-early-failure-cruiserweight-division/*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They aren't seriously having two PPVs between the Rumble and Mania?


---
When coming up for top ten Starrcade matches in that thread in the Classic section I had to go through wiki results to remember matches, and I always seem to bloody forget that Steamboat/Blanchard from Starrcade 84 happened. Which sucks huge dick because it's one of my favourite matches of all time. Watched it again, unfortunately the quality was bad, which I can live with, but the audio was delayed which I can't live with, yet I apparently don't have the match like I thought I did so whatever it had to do. And yes, it still is absolutely one of my favourite matches of all time. Both guys are totally phenomenal in it, and that would be one thing, but another thing is they just gel so well. Their chemistry was so excellent and it's a shame there isn't a lot of other footage of these two facing off I could see that from (from what I know...I've been out of the loop for a couple years now). They did a terrific job making sure Steamboat's ribs weren't forgotten about during the whole thing, and that was without a long period of Tully working on it. The brass knuckles and drunk punching are the flakes in the top of the sundae. Hopefully I remember this match's existence now everyday of my life. It should pop into mind whenever I hear or read the word "fun" for a few weeks at least.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Brock Lesnar vs Mr.Perfect (Raw Dark Match - Richmond, VA - 01.28.2002)*

x560hlz

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...rfect-dark-match-richmond-va-01-28-2002_sport

I know a partial of this match has been on YT, but this is the *complete match*, taken from the recent Lesnar DVD. Thought i'd share/give something for christmas.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Awesome. Watched it right now b/c 6 minutes. It was all right, Hennig's overselling works better when he's supposed to be putting over a monster/beefy guy so yeah. Sold two clothesline awesomely and then basically no sold the third one for some strange reason though. Lesnar did pretty well but for a sec there he was in cheesy sub-Hulk Up and it looked kind of funny. He was such a vanilla "enthusiastically wanna get my foot in the door" guy. :lol Obviously doesn't suit him.

Warning for the vid though - there's a weird sudden screech 3 seconds in, don't have high volume + headphones on. :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> They aren't seriously having two PPVs between the Rumble and Mania?


They are. Fastlane will be the first non-Wrestlemania PPV to take place in the month of March. It's on March 5th and Wrestlemania is April 2nd. Elimination Chamber will be just two weeks after the Rumble.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone seen the Regal/Flair match(es) from mid 1994 for the Queensbury Cup? I think it's 5 seperate matches (classed as rounds) with judges and scorecards spread over a few weeks on Worldwide.

Sounds really unique and intriguing tbh, esp as it involves these two, and I've never saw it. On the set is have it on, all 5 matches have been put together to essentially make it more like one match.

Looking forward to watching it/them.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Brock said:


> Anyone seen the Regal/Flair match(es) from mid 1994 for the Queensbury Cup? I think it's 5 seperate matches


:faint:

I did not know this was a thing, but I need it *bad*.


----------



## Nicole Queen (Apr 2, 2014)

Man, Lesnar and Mr Perfect are such an oddball combo. To think that Perfect's heyday was in the late 80s/early 90s and he's Perfect-plexing Lesnar in 2002 and winning clean is almost surreal :lol


I was quickly catching up with the WWE PPVs since Summerslam and there were 7 of them. Sure, they are for two shows but _holy hell_, the'll end up with (at least) 25 PPVs a year. It's not like anything of notice happens on at least half of them and the ones with a gimmick are really pointless so clean it up, damn it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Martins said:


> :faint:
> 
> I did not know this was a thing, but I need it *bad*.


It's essentially one match that's spread over a number of weeks, under Regal's Queensbury Rules.

The 5 parts might be on YT but if anyone else wants, ill upload the 'all the parts' video soon.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Yeah those Regal/Flair matches are good stuff. *


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steven Regal Interview + Ric Flair Interview (WCW Worldwide 4/23/1994)*

x564eco

This is from the week before the first round, with Regal challenging Flair to a match.

*Ric Flair vs. Steven Regal (Marquis of Queensbury Cup) (WCW Worldwide 4/30 – 5/28/1994)*

x564s3s

This is all the rounds, which took place over a number of weeks, all spliced into one.

@Martins

And others to


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Regal's 94 is so good. The Flair cup, the long Arn match, the Dustin match, the incredible series with Zbyszko, good matches with Sting, Brad Armstrong, Johnny B. Badd, Brian Pillman, and he starts on January 1st with an awesome match against Terry Taylor. Bet I'm forgetting him ruling it in tag matches too.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just put on the network and watched No way out 2006 Angle/Undertaker as a Christmas present for myself. Oh lord I think I loved it too much. Think it would have to be ****3/4, it's like the definition of a match that is just below perfect. Makes me miss Undertaker, Kurt Angle, and this era in general. GODDAMN.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Their rematch on SmackDown is almost as good (I might think it's maybe better) too. It's from the March 3rd SmackDown.

Everyone reading this needs to spend a few minutes (and I mean a few, it's like 3 and a half minutes) watching Rey/Lesnar from the 10/31/02 SmackDown. Amazing fun and maybe one of the best opening 60 seconds to a match I can remember.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Their rematch on SmackDown is almost as good (I might think it's maybe better) too. It's from the March 3rd SmackDown.
> 
> Everyone reading this needs to spend a few minutes (and I mean a few, it's like 3 and a half minutes) watching Rey/Lesnar from the 10/31/02 SmackDown. Amazing fun and maybe one of the best opening 60 seconds to a match I can remember.


Then watch Brock/Bubba Ray from Raw for more fun.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thirdly watch Rock/Jack/Kane v. HHH/X-Pac/Show from Raw in Feb 2000. The week after the amazing ten man tag (two weeks maybe?). I rewatched it earlier after probably six years and man is it overlooked.

Also Mark Henry/Chris Jericho from Feb 2004. God I love that match too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Perfect/Blue Blazer from WM5 is still quite the forgotten little match tbh. Think this was their only match wasn't it? Shame.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So after loving the fuck out of the Hogan/Slaughter Desert Storm Match; What are the Sarge's best matches?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> So after loving the fuck out of the Hogan/Slaughter Desert Storm Match; What are the Sarge's best matches?


Backlund 1/10/81
Backlund 3/21/81 (cage)
Patterson 4/5/81 (alley fight)
w/Kernodle v. Steamboat & Youngblood ("The Final Conflict" cage)
series with the Iron Sheik, the Boot Camp match IMO might be the best match in WWE history

I've not yet seen the cage match with Slaughter and Blackwell against Al-Kaissie, Masked Superstar, and King Tonga/Meng/Haku that's rated really highly. In fact, I'm gong to watch that today. Slaughter, Meng, Blackwell and Superstar all in a cage is something I should have seen years ago. 

I'll watch the desert storm match first though, idr if I've seen it.

Sarge is the type of guy I could feel safe googling his name and just watching whatever, though. Don't remember a bad match.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Had a lil haul today








All those for £7 total.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I enjoyed the After The Show DVD, esp with the Taker 'spinaroony' stuff lol. Didn't know about that MSG DVD, tho.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> I enjoyed the After The Show DVD, esp with the Taker 'spinaroony' stuff lol. Didn't know about that MSG DVD, tho.


The MSG set could've been better but it was alright for what it was. And well worth £1 lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> The MSG set could've been better but it was alright for what it was. And well worth £1 lol.


Yeah, you did well to get the lot for 7 quid, tbh.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> Yeah, you did well to get the lot for 7 quid, tbh.


I don't really buy DVDs of wrestling these days with the web at my finger tips. But they were getting rid of their wwe section in my local cex so thought I'd check it out. Almost got the True Giants set too but they couldn't find disc 3 so couldn't sell it.

I was a little miffed as I wanted a DVD with Haystacks Calhoun on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> couldn't find disc


:lmao Classic CEX.

Been ages since I've been in my local one tbh. Might pop in this week just to see what they have.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> :lmao Classic CEX.
> 
> Been ages since I've been in my local one tbh. Might pop in this week just to see what they have.


Classic CeX indeed. Gonna watch ECW unreleased 2 later, never cared for it much when it existed.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That was a really fun triple thread with some decent booking. Nice match to end the year. Fitting this year Styles goes out with a quite good one with yet another different opponent involved in Corbin.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fun tag on SmackDown this week with Orton and Harper against Shelton Benjamin and Juventud Guerrera.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fucking hell, Smackdown is so head and shoulders above every other WWE-produced show it's not even fair IMO. Corbin can fucking hang. He won't carry anyone, but he can hang with the best of them. He's going to have a huge 2017.

**

*Since the year is done, my top-25 WWE/NXT matches on the year - enjoy:*

1 -- THE MIZ vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER -- *NO MERCY* -- *****
2 -- THE REVIVAL vs. DIY -- *NXT TAKEOVER: TORONTO* -- *****
3 -- KEVIN OWENS vs. SAMI ZAYN -- *BATTLEGROUND* -- ****3/4
4 -- AJ STYLES vs. JOHN CENA -- *SUMMERSLAM* -- ****3/4
5 -- SHINSUKE NAKAMURA vs. SAMI ZAYN -- *NXT TAKEOVER: DALLAS* -- ****3/4
6 -- KOTA IBUSHI vs. CEDRIC ALEXANDER -- *CW CLASSIC 08/10/16* -- ****3/4
7 -- AJ STYLES vs. DEAN AMBROSE -- *TLC* -- ****1/2
8 -- AJ STYLES vs. DEAN AMBROSE -- *BACKLASH* -- ****1/2
9 -- AJ STYLES vs. DEAN AMBROSE vs. JOHN CENA -- *NO MERCY* -- ****1/2
10 -- THE MIZ vs. CESARO vs. KEVIN OWENS vs. SAMI ZAYN -- *EXTREME RULES* -- ****1/2
11 -- THE REVIVAL vs. DIY -- *NXT TAKEOVER: BROOKLYN* -- ****1/2
12 -- AJ STYLES vs. ROMAN REIGNS -- *EXTREME RULES* -- ****1/2
13 -- AMERICAN ALPHA vs. THE REVIVAL -- *NXT TAKEOVER: DALLAS* -- ****1/4
14 -- KOTA IBUSHI vs. TJ PERKINS -- *CW CLASSIC 09/14/16* -- ****1/4
15 -- AJ STYLES vs. JOHN CENA -- *MONEY IN THE BANK* -- ****1/4
16 -- SETH ROLLINS vs. ROMAN REIGNS -- *MONEY IN THE BANK* -- ****1/4
17 -- THE BRIAN KENDRICK vs. KOTA IBUSHI -- *CW CLASSIC 08/31/16* -- ****
18 -- KOTA IBUSHI vs. GRAN METALIK -- *CW CLASSIC 09/14/16* -- ****
19 -- AMERICAN ALPHA vs. THE REVIVAL -- *NXT TAKEOVER: THE END* -- ****
20 -- AJ STYLES vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER -- *SMACKDOWN 08/23/16* -- ****
21 -- THE MIZ vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER -- *TLC* -- ****
22 -- AMERICAN ALPHA vs. THE REVIVAL -- *NXT 07/06/16* -- ****
23 -- THE NEW DAY vs. CHRIS JERICHO & AJ STYLES -- *RAW 03/07/16* -- ****
24 -- THE MIZ vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER -- *BACKLASH* -- ****
25 -- AJ STYLES vs. DEAN AMBROSE -- *SMACKDOWN 09/27/16* -- ***3/4​


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I dont tend to like matches pre Hulk era. But just watched the champ vs champ match on the MSG set and it was amazing. 

(Billed as a match for the undisputed heavyweight Championship) wwe champion Bob Backlund vs nwa champion Harley Race from September 1980. 

It's Sheikie baby next

After watching the omg DVD 20 minutes in I never wanna hear "oh my god!" Ever again
Lol


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

I made a list on my phone as the year went on of all the ***+ matches in WWE. There may be some missing in particular NXT but hopefully this helps someone who just watches certain matches or PPV's as some of these were on Raw or SD. Personally I think 2016 was a great year of wrestling in WWE mainly after the brand split.


Kalisto/Del Rio ***.. 14/01........ 
Ambrose/Owens ***1/2.. 24/01
Charlotte/Becky ***1/4.. 24/01
Styles/Jericho ***.. 25/01
Styles/Jericho II ***1/4 11/02
Fatal 5 Way *** 15/02
Kalisto/Del Rio ***1/4 21/02
Reigns/Lesnar/Ambrose ***1/2 21/02
New Day/Y2AJ ***1/2 07/03
HHH/Ambrose ***1/4 12/03
HHH/Ziggler ***1/4 14/03
AJ Styles/Owens *** 17/03
AJ Styles/Owens ***1/2 21/03
AmericanAlpha/Revival **** 01/04
Nakamura/Zayn ****1/2 01/04
AJ Styles/Jericho *** 03/04
Lesnar/Ambrose ***1/4 03/04
Charlotte/Sasha/Becky ***1/2 03/04
AJ Styles/Jericho/Owens/Cesaro ***1/4 04/04
Cesaro/Owens ***3/4 11/04
AJ Styles/Zayn ***1/4 11/04
AJ Styles/Miz ***1/4 22/04
Ambrose/Jericho ***1/4 01/05
AJ Styles/Reigns ***1/2 01/05
Owens/Zayn/Miz/Cesaro **** 22/05
AJ Styles/Reigns **** 22/05
Cesaro/Jericho ***1/4 06/06
AmericanAlpha/Revival ****1/4 08/06
Nakamura/Aries ***1/2 08/06
Cesaro/Zayn *** 14/06
AJ Styles/Cena **** 19/06
Reigns/Rollins ****1/4 19/06
Zayn/Rollins *** 30/06
Cesaro/Rusev ***1/2
Ambrose/Rollins ***1/2 18/07
Wyatts/New Day ***1/4 24/07
Zayn/Owens **** 24/07
Fatal 4 Way ***1/2 25/07
Fatal 4 Way ***1/2 25/07
Charlotte/Sasha ***1/2 25/07
Reigns/Balor *** 25/07
Cena/Styles **** 21/08
Rollins/Balor ***1/4 21/08
Lesnar/Orton *** 21/08
Zayn/Rollins *** 22/08
Roman/Jericho ***1/4 22/08
Roman/Rollins/Owens/Cass ***1/2 29/08
6 Pack SD Diva - *** 11/09
Miz/Ziggler - **** 11/09
Ambrose/Styles - ***3/4 11/09
Roman/Owens - ***1/4 12/09
AmericanAlpha/Usos - ***1/4. 20/09
Miz/Ziggler - ***1/2 20/09
Perkins/Kendrick - *** 25/09
Cesaro/Sheamus - **** 25/09
Zayn/Jericho - ***1/4 25/09
Reigns/Rusev - ***1/4 25/09
Rollins/Owens - ***1/4 25/09
AJ/Cena/Ambrose - ***1/2 09/10
Miz/Ziggler ***3/4 09/10
Rollins/Jericho ***1/4 10/10
Rollins/Jericho *** 17/10
New Day/CesaroSheamus ***1/4 24/10
AJ/Ambrose ***1/4 25/10
Rollins/Owens ***3/4 30/10
Miz/Ziggler ***1/2 15/10
Sasha/Charlotte ****1/4 30/10
Rollins/Owens ***3/4 21/11
Reigns/Owens *** 28/11
Sasha/Charlotte ***3/4 28/11
AmericanAlpha/Wyatts ***1/4 29/11
Miz/Ziggler ***1/4 04/12
Kalisto/Corbin ***1/4 04/12
AJ/Ambrose ***1/2 04/12
Zayn/Owens *** 05/12
Reigns/Jericho ***1/4 05/12
NewDay/CesaroSheamus/Club ***1/4 12/12
NewDay/Y2KO/Shield ***1/4 12/12
NewDay/CesaroSheamus *** 18/12
Rollins/Jericho *** 18/12
Sasha/Charlotte ***3/4 18/12
Bayley/Charlotte *** 19/12
NewDay/CesaroSheamus *** 26/12
AJ/Ziggler/Corbin ***3/4 27/12


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... Rhino! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-rhino/

Did 2 of these in December cos this and the Taz one were both very short due to neither man going longer than 5 minutes most of the time lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*New Hart Foundation vs Orient Express (WWF Royal Rumble 1992)*

We all know how great the '91 tag match is, but i feel this one flies under the radar, TBH. Whilst not quite as good as Rockers/Orient, it stands on it's own merits as an excellent match IMO. All guys work hard, Anvil does all his power shit and hot tags, Owen does his technical/high flying stuff and we get a very enjoyable opening tag match here. Probably just forgotten rather than underrated, but it is.

Recomended.

Oh, and we had Anvil looking like this:










To which Heenan proclaimed "The've come out in their pyjamas :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That match is definitely good, but does get forgotten because the 91 tag is much better.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I'll be watching some of my wrestling Blu-Ray/DVD's today as I got a few days left before I return to work. I'll be watching The Shield, Ultimate Warrior (Always Believe one), AJ Styles (last TNA release) and if I get chance the NXT one. Also have a few more matches and the extras to watch on the Hardcore Championship Blu-Ray so may also check that out later.

I've finished The Shield and NXT releases already but I'm a huge fan of a lot of the matches on there that I just have to go back through and watch some of them! Should be a good day.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I was convinced to watch NXT Takeover: Toronto, since I hadn't before and it caused a hole in my NXT Takeover watching track record. Me being in the lowest wrestling mood in years (cause the show fucking sucks) made a harsher viewer out of me, but I still finally gave it a go.

Roode/Dillinger - ***1/2
AOP/TM61 - 1/2*
Revival/DIY - ****3/4
Asuka/Mickie - ***1/2
Nakamura/Joe - **1/4

The opener was very good. Sure, there were some pacing issues, about 80% of the punches clearly missed, which made it a sloppy match strikes wise, and it was fairly basic. However, there's no way around it: it was an 80's match. It was such an 80's match it's not even funny. Difference being that it had far less accurate punches and a much smarkier crowd involved. Roode is so awesome as a heel, man. He's basically a less talented Ric Flair, but still talented, in this glorious gimmick. Dillinger has come so far from being a bland jobber too. They clicked well, had the audience in the palm of their hands, Dillinger did a great job at clocking the necessary HATE~, and Roode played dickhead really nicely.

WTF was that Dusty Tag Team Classic match? Apart from a few fun moments and a forgettable but pretty harmless heat segment by the Authors, this sucked balls. Bizarrely structured to say the least. Played out like a goddamn ROH-style Battle Royal Tornado Tag thingy, the big spot off the structure was beyond telegraphed, the LUKEWARM tag segment too felt more choreographed than a South Korean Deadpool dance, and the ending was pointlessly booked. Why the hell did that TM61 guy take out his own Goddamn partner? WHAT?! WHY?! HOW?! Fuck off w/this garbage. I liked the shark cage approach to Ellering, as 80's as it can get (much like the opener), but it didn't serve much use either other than Ellering dropping the chain to his guy... which was also pointless given the way the ending was booked. It's like the NXT writing team suddenly went retard and forgot how to book a match.

Now, on the other hand.... we get the polar opposite. If AOP/TM61 was a pure display of what Tag Team wrestling should not ever be, Revival/DIY was almost flawless. I have some nitpicks here or there. But they don't detract from a match that accurately showed everything great about Tag Team wrestling. Revival. Fucking Revival. Best In The World doesn't make them justice. My God, the story they told was wonderful. The heat segment was brilliant. The hot tag w/Ciampa was good too, and I don't even like Ciampa (I do have some nitpicks there). The booking of the falls was terrific. The nearfall sequences were the shit. Gargano's selling of the leg was spectacular. The feel good ending was actually feel good. My God, this was just.... almost perfect. 2nd best match in NXT history behind Cesaro/Zayn @ Arrival.

Asuka/Mickie was very good too. Some sloppiness here or there, and a lukewarm atmosphere (not surprising, coming off the incredible Tag Title match). Liked how Mickie frustrated Asuka more than anyone else, showing off that she's a veteran of the ring, AND she studied the beastly champion very adequately. A very Taker/Edge @ WM 24 like story, w/Mickie having a counter for everything Asuka threw. Asuka, so charismatic and brutal, she is, meshed very well w/Mickie. They clocked in some NASTY strikes. Smart ending too, w/Mickie trying everything to fight off the Asuka Lock, and when Asuka finally gets it in, Mickie taps out instantly to avoid long term damage. Very brainy approach. Not the best women's match in NXT history, but a very good one nonetheless.

And the Main Event was... the most frustrating match of the night, even more so than the TM61 shitfest. While this had a lot of cool stuff that would enhance, if not make, any other match good, this one was tainted badly. If they had taken everything that works from here and structured the Brooklyn match entirely around that, or hell, structure THIS entirely around it, I would've gotten the Nak/Joe match I've dreamed of. And it started pretty damn sweet, w/the two just going to war w/one another. But the moment Joe began to shift focus to Nak's leg, this match was doomed. Let's face it, once and for all: Nakamura is a Godawful limb seller. He's a great limb worker, but he's beyond terrible when he has to sell. The leg work was there, and about 3 minutes later, completely forgotten and ignored. Joe stopped caring too, cause he knew it wasn't worth it. But then he cared again about 7 minutes past, and Nak started selling more on and off than a broken switch. Jesus. The supposed leg work completely took me out of an otherwise would-be good match if it hadn't even existed. And I don't EVER say that. At least Brooklyn, as questionably paced it was, worked entirely around the two just kicking the shit out of each other, w/no limb work to be found, and thus, no necessity for Nakamura to sell. Great ending, great start, and good moments that would've totally made a not-doomed match even better. But no question about it: overall, this was not good.

So there you go. Takeover: Toronto - very good PPV. As per usual. But it was inequivocally the worst Takeover since at least Rival, if not since the 1st one (the one w/Zayn/Breeze).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

New year so as usual I'm gonna try my damndest to watch everything noteworthy and keep track of my ratings... up until about late August when football season starts up.  

Zayn vs. Strowman Last Man Standing tonight on RAW and Miz vs. Ambrose for the IC Title on Smackdown tomorrow. Let's see if the year can start on a good note.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...y-adventures-through-1990-a.html#post64704938

Join me in my 1990 adventure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

3 hours of RAW feels so god damn long... Had its watchable parts tonight though. Strowman vs. Zayn LMS was good stuff. They did a great job of still making Strowman look completely unstoppable but giving Zayn just a small taste of the hope spots. Wasn't high on weapon usage (which is better cause Strowman doesn't need them) but the entrance table spot was pretty nice. *** 1/2 for it.

Reigns vs. Jericho for the U.S. Title (this has gotta be the 3rd match they've had for it) was fun for Jericho's antics and the false finish at the end. I bought into it, honestly. Thought for sure this would be the perfect time to take the belt off of Roman... but nope. I'm convinced he'll be a double champ after the Rumble. Owens' booking is just a joke anyway.

Charlotte vs. Bayley for the Women's Title at the Rumble. :mark: I'm really looking forward to that and hoping it doesn't have a screwy finish. Bayley had a promo backstage where she stood up to Stephanie after she basically told her she never wanted her on RAW and this might be the start of her trying to prove herself. If she wins the title and beats Charlotte on PPV, that fucking reaction from 60k people in the Alamodome is gonna be CRAZYYYYY.

Ending segment to RAW was pretty cool and entertaining imo. Kept you guessing throughout and did some really nice foreshadowing. I was hoping after Owens threw all the chairs out of the ring he was gonna get in Goldberg;s face and just yell 'Pop-Up Powerbomb!' :lol That would've been fucking hilarious. There's a very real chance we could win up with Reigns vs. Goldberg being the main event to Wrestlemania and I feel like the reaction would be pretty positive towards that. Owens is not in a position right now where I feel like they have the confidence in him being in a MAJOR match at the show, unless I'm totally wrong and the whole friendship with Jericho blows up and there's your Universal Title match. Who knows!

Really love the unpredictability we have with the Rumble this year. So far the official entrants are Lesnar, Goldberg, New Day, Jericho, and Strowman. Next week Taker is coming to RAW so I'm hoping he announces his entrance into the match. Couple in the real chance of a babyface Rollins win, the whole Orton/Wyatt situation on SD, an incredibly small chance at seeing a true underdog in Sami overcome the odds, or a surprise comeback from Balor and I have no idea what to expect. I LOVE IT :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My latest 1990 post;

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64731498-post8.html

Shill baby, shill :drose


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

2 real good matches and a great closing segment on RAW last night. I was really hoping for Jericho to beat Roman.

Roman/Jericho - ***1/2 (false finishes were amazing)
Zayn/Braun - ***


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown was fan-fucking-tastic tonight.

Corbin/Ziggler - ***1/2
Ambrose/Miz - ***3/4


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> Smackdown was fan-fucking-tastic tonight.
> 
> Corbin/Ziggler - ***1/2
> Ambrose/Miz - ***3/4


205 Live was really solid as well TJ Perkins/Neville is MOTY for a few more hours :wink2:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Corbin vs. Ziggler - *** 1/4
IC Title: Miz vs. Ambrose - ***

Dug Corbin's work yet again. I love seeing him pummel smaller guys. :lol

The return of #HEELZiggler actually gave me goosebumps. Really cool moment and once again it seems like Smackdown is just so far ahead of the curve at giving fans what they actually wanna see or giving us just an overall better product.

Cena/Styles contract signing was a great segment. Really sold me on them having another match because this one should be the most HEATED of their battles. Really do not wanna see Styles lose the belt... but I just don't know if they're gonna let him beat Cena _again_, especially on such a big stage. Corbin coming out was random but I'm cool with it. Another name in the Rumble hat.

Miz vs. Ambrose to me was fun but nothing special match-wise. One of the those matches where Ambrose just kind of annoyed me or looked like he was going through the motions. Can't complain about him winning the title though. I feel like that's the perfect position for him right now.

Cena vs. Corbin & American Alpha vs. The Wyatts for the Tag Titles next week. (Y)(Y)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown is the best.

I can't wait for Big Banter Corbin to hold the WWE Title later this year. Dude is stepping up his game.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64758906-post10.html

Latest 1990 Update, WCW certainly had a hot January.

Maybe more people would care if i put Roman Reigns in the thread title :hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wish I had the 90 yearbook myself. Going through it with someone else is really fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I wish I had the 90 yearbook myself. Going through it with someone else is really fun.


I've certainly enjoyed January so far, esp for WCW, where Buzz Sawyer is entertaining me atm.

Not sure if I should continue with these updates tho tbh if it's just me talking to myself. Thought more people would be interested, but I guess if one can't watch some of this stuff themselves, one can't care as much. Although I enjoy noting my thoughts so far and providing visuals, so maybe.

Trying man, trying.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> I've certainly enjoyed January so far, esp for WCW, where Buzz Sawyer is entertaining me atm.
> 
> Not sure if I should continue with these updates tho tbh if it's just me talking to myself. Thought more people would be interested, but I guess if one can't watch some of this stuff themselves, one can't care as much. Although I enjoy noting my thoughts so far and providing visuals, so maybe.
> 
> Trying man, trying.


Make a thread where you discuss the merits of The Rock against the merits of Shawn Michaels. Forty pages of shit while you sit in the shadows, then close it yourself when people start really talking. Then start a rant on yourself about how Brock is such a tyrannical terrible mod who closed your thread. Tag everyone who was throwing shit in the Rock v. Michaels thread so they can have at it again and direct shit at you while you recede back into the shadows. Close that thread five pages in.

I will edit this post by then so I cannot take the blame for any of this.





To actually talk about 1990, I....was going to say I really loved this match but it was from 1991 so never mind. I love Rockers/POP and Arn/Muta though. You'll be coming up on Flair/Pillman in not long too which is really awesome. Man why have I still put off that Flair/Eaton from January?


I still haven't watched Race/Andre that Rah uploaded for me. "I'll watch it over the break I said"....in December 2015. :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@Brock continue the 1990 watching man. I enjoy reading all your comments and the pictures/gifs really add to it too. I'll chime in whenever I can but I just haven't seen much of anything you're watching.  Probably will go back and check out the Rumble sometime though in prep for this year's.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> @Brock continue the 1990 watching man. I enjoy reading all your comments and the pictures/gifs really add to it too. I'll chime in whenever I can but I just haven't seen much of anything you're watching.  Probably will go back and check out the Rumble sometime though in prep for this year's.


:benson

Yeah lol, I can appreciate it's difficult when people havn't actually seen some of it to really comment tbh. I'm having fun watching this stuff so I'll continue on and see how it goes. Hopefully it does get some people thinking/commenting and wanting to check out the good stuff.....and the bad.

Should have another update later.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64781386-post13.html

1990 update.  Forgot how great the Bossman face turn was TBH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So when did The Miz suddenly learn to wrestle? The girl, who's inexplicably still into current wrestling, told me to start watching some Miz matches. So I plugged in the one w/Zayn @ Survivor Series, cause ZAYN is, I thought, the one person who cerfiably could get a good match out of Miz.

What the fuck. The match was legit GREAT. And not only was it not a Zayn carryjob, Miz looked just as good. That's not a knock at all on Zayn, he's Sami fucking Zayn and he performed like Sami fucking Zayn. It just so happens that The Miz looked really, really good. Like, Figure Four's still shitty but everything else is pretty much on point good. Apparently, he's started to rip off Daniel Bryan's moves and all in the ring. More like D-Bry's spirit has literally invaded his body to stop him from being a shitty wrestler.

Zayn's selling tho. ZAYN. FUCKIN' ZAYN. :mark: Would go ***3/4 for it. Needed a better ending and to go a little longer for me to make it crack the four range, but still great.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

ATF said:


> So when did The Miz suddenly learn to wrestle? The girl, who's inexplicably still into current wrestling, told me to start watching some Miz matches. So I plugged in the one w/Zayn @ Survivor Series, cause ZAYN is, I thought, the one person who cerfiably could get a good match out of Miz.
> 
> What the fuck. The match was legit GREAT. And not only was it not a Zayn carryjob, Miz looked just as good. That's not a knock at all on Zayn, he's Sami fucking Zayn and he performed like Sami fucking Zayn. It just so happens that The Miz looked really, really good. Like, Figure Four's still shitty but everything else is pretty much on point good. Apparently, he's started to rip off Daniel Bryan's moves and all in the ring. More like D-Bry's spirit has literally invaded his body to stop him from being a shitty wrestler.
> 
> Zayn's selling tho. ZAYN. FUCKIN' ZAYN. :mark: Would go ***3/4 for it. Needed a better ending and to go a little longer for me to make it crack the four range, but still great.


The Miz killed it all 2016.

He's pretty much become the complete package. Outstanding heel, some of the best mic work of his life on live shows and on Talking Smack and his ring work has been very solid.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> So when did The Miz suddenly learn to wrestle? The girl, who's inexplicably still into current wrestling, told me to start watching some Miz matches. So I plugged in the one w/Zayn @ Survivor Series, cause ZAYN is, I thought, the one person who cerfiably could get a good match out of Miz.
> 
> What the fuck. The match was legit GREAT. And not only was it not a Zayn carryjob, Miz looked just as good. That's not a knock at all on Zayn, he's Sami fucking Zayn and he performed like Sami fucking Zayn. It just so happens that The Miz looked really, really good. Like, Figure Four's still shitty but everything else is pretty much on point good. Apparently, he's started to rip off Daniel Bryan's moves and all in the ring. More like D-Bry's spirit has literally invaded his body to stop him from being a shitty wrestler.
> 
> Zayn's selling tho. ZAYN. FUCKIN' ZAYN. :mark: Would go ***3/4 for it. Needed a better ending and to go a little longer for me to make it crack the four range, but still great.


When he and Bryan blew up on each other on a Talking Smack episode, Miz really started to take his game to the next level. Idk how much you watched from 2016, but his series with Ziggler was some of the best stuff of the year... and you wouldn't think that when looking at the participants.  You should watch their Backlash match and that'll gauge whether you wanna see the rest or not.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> When he and Bryan blew up on each other on a Talking Smack episode, Miz really started to take his game to the next level. Idk how much you watched from 2016, but his series with Ziggler was some of the best stuff of the year... and you wouldn't think that when looking at the participants.  You should watch their Backlash match and that'll gauge whether you wanna see the rest or not.


Yeah, I saw like, at best, a combined 2/3 weeks' worth of programming :lmao I've been completely careless about wrestling. I've heard No Mercy is the best of the two..... but honestly, I'm not in the mood to watch fucking Miz and Ziggler right now either


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64801354-post18.html

Latest 1990 Update.

The Horsemen have a message for Sting, Norman goes into the women's bathroom, and just who are Doom? Oh and WCW are fucked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sooooo... when did The Miz suddenly learn to wrestle AND Dolph Ziggler remember to be good again? I finally saw their two PPV matches. Backlash was really good, apart from some selling brush-offs at the end by Dolph that REALLY pissed me off (like... how the fuck can you carry a grown man on your shoulders w/a bad leg like nothing? You're not Brock Lesnar, I don't buy that for a fucking second!). Really liked Ziggler reverting back to the usage of his amateur wrestling background to take down Miz, and loved the approach to the "Ziggler is a better wrestler, but Miz is a smarter wrestler" storyline. Miz's heel work is pretty great, to be honest, doing a terrific job at controlling the pace, creating tension, and making the crowd cheer for Dolph. Ending was fine too. Yeah, apart from Ziggler's whatever selling at the end (he hadn't done a bad job up until that point), not much to point. Nothing spectacular, but still really good. Would go around ***1/2, maybe ***3/4 on a good day. Still definitely prefer the Zayn match, though. I felt way more invested in that.

Then I watched the No Mercy match, which everyone raved about it. So did I think about it? OVERFUCKINGRATED.

























:lol Nah just kidding, it was fantastic. 1st half was really basic, it was fine but not at all different from their Backlash match, up until which point I was like "Is this the masterpiece y'all are talking about, for real?". Fine work but nothing special. And w/the crowd DEAD at that point, and me not only knowing the result in advance but even honestly not caring that much about Ziggler - which meant that if he really were to wave goodbyes, I'd be like 'good riddance' -, I was actually a bit bored. Then the Figure 4 happened, and from that point, the match exploded. Ironic, given how shitty Miz's F4 is. The clever use of nearfalls was, just that, totally clever. Loved the callback to Backlash, the use of the Spirit Squad as a way to bring the clichéd but always effective "your past comes back to hunt you" card (especially cool in a match where your career is at stake), and I'll admit that I almost rolled my eyes at the 2nd SCF kick-out, but then I realized that if there ever was a proper time to introduce finisher kick-outs, it's in a Title vs. Career match, so why not. Plus, Miz has been sold as inferior to Dolph all this time, so it kinda makes sense that his finisher too wasn't good enough to put him down. And Dolph not acting like a retard and selling his leg greatly the whole way through was just a plus. Terrific match, overall. ****1/4 for it.

Btw, did not watch their TLC Ladder match, because, ya know, enough caring about fucking Miz and Ziggler, especially w/ladders to the mix .

But speaking of TLC and feuds that lasted until then, I was also convinced to watch the Styles/Ambrose "trilogy":

Backlash: ****1/4
No Mercy 3-way w/Cena: SPOTFEST
TLC: SPOTFEST

Backlash was utterly tremendous. Again, the flaw that keeps it from being better than it is is Ambrose's abrupt brushing of the leg selling. Otherwise, this was awesome, w/great performances from both men but especially Styles. This was the Styles show, and he absolutely is the best performer in the WWE right now alongside Sami Zayn. And their TLC match was a spotfest, but as far as spotfests go, at least it was a fun one. No good as a wrestling match cause it was unquestionably a spotfest, but fun. That 360 through the table, though. What do you know, there's still room for things you haven't seen before in these crazy Ladder match style things.

Styles really seems to get the best of everyone... except John Cena. Speaking of spotfests, the No Mercy 3-way was one too, under the style of a WWE multi man match. And unlike the TLC match, where at least it had enough in the visual flair and explosiveness departments to pop in the eyes, this was just your average WWE 3-way w/a lot of rolling out of the ring for things that shouldn't make you roll out of the ring, a lot of finishers (though some used in a senseful way, I'll give them that), and a lot of moves for the sake of moves. It wasn't good. That's for sure. And I totally came to that conclusion the moment Ambrose blatantly no sold a Styles Clash to stop Styles from tapping out. 'Twas just mind numbing to see. Did have its moments, but nothing good. And this match absolutely confirmed it: John Cena is the Kurt Angle of current WWE. It all goes right. Calling spots so loud I can hear them from the other side of the planet, destroying the credibility of his own finishers in the name of "producing great matches", and making his opponents go retard and play w/his bullshit (again, going back to Ambrose no selling the Styles Clash for the sake of stopping an STF). Had to laugh my ass off at the visual metaphor when Cena hit that Double German on his two opponents. Ugh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Yeah, I saw like, at best, a combined 2/3 weeks' worth of programming :lmao I've been completely careless about wrestling. I've heard No Mercy is the best of the two..... but honestly, I'm not in the mood to watch fucking Miz and Ziggler right now either


Your loss. Smackdown was excellent this year. Like 2009 or 2006 SD level good. But not 2003.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Your loss. Smackdown was excellent this year. Like 2009 or 2006 SD level good. But not 2003.


Uhh, sure. If you say so.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got my Attitude Era Vol. 3 Blu Ray in the mail today. Excited to watch sometime in the near future. Never seen anyone do a full review for it pretty much anywhere online, so looking forward to doing the same thing I did with the Dungeon Collection as far as match-by-match goes. No expectations or anything to go off of at all so it shall be interesting. Came with this little mini book called 'The Attitude Era's Greatest Matches' so that was a cool addition. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking forward to that. I've still to finish disc 1 lol, keep forgetting to go back to it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I watched some of it. There's no commentary on any of it and in some cases it's like a 1 or 2 camera shoot. It's amazing when that one camera is a handheld at ringside (like the Hart/Austin match) but it kind of sucks when they just have a hard camera. And they have a lose definition of "Attitude Era" so some of the crowds weren't really good enough for no commentary.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64818930-post29.html

1990 Update.

"IF I FIND OUT THAT THE POWER YOU POSSESS COMES FROM DRINKING THE SWEAT FROM THE DEVIL'S ARMPIT" 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64833986-post30.html

1990 Update time.

Bret/HBK - First time EVA!!!!, Warrior/Hogan continue to astound us all + Flair is still the man.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WCW Clash of the Champions X: Texas Shootout*

Dr. Death Steve Williams vs. The Samoan Savage - *** 1/4

For the longest time, before I actually looked it up, I thought for sure that The Samoan Savage was a young Umaga. Of course the longer I looked the more I realized Umaga wasn't that old and it was actually The Tonga Kid from '80s WWF. Anyway though, this match was actually pretty darn good. Simple formula but I enjoyed the big men. Dr. Death would get cut off at the perfect time when he started to make a comeback and the Savage was quality. Williams had an awesome feat of strength midway through where he lost his hand position on a gorilla press and basically held him up on the backside of his wrist. Pretty cool.

Flyin Brian & The Z-Man vs. The MOD Squad - ** 1/4

Basic tag formula, but there's nothing wrong with that. 

Mil Mascara vs. Cactus Jack Manson - SQUASH

Ffs if this match doesn't make you completely hate Mil Mascaras (if you don't already which you should tbh) then I don't think anything will. He doesn't let Jack get in a single bit of offense but still manages to get outshined by him. :lol Oh and of course his annoying ass speed walking around the ring with his lats spread. Can't stand the guy. And JESUS CHRIST that bump Foley takes to the floor is disgusting, yet he acted like nothing happened! Crazy bastard.

*Falls Count Anywhere*
Norman The Lunatic vs. Kevin Sullivan - N/R :lmao

Pre-match quote from Norman: "I can pin him 1-2-3 at the hot dog stand... and then get 3 hot dogs" :lmao Completely harmless match. Ending is hilarious as Brock already posted about.

The Road Warriors vs. The Skyscrapers - ** 3/4

Short match but a total sprint, and an impressive one at that. The way all 4 of these men moved for their size was incredible. There was a spot where Taker (Mean Mark) ran the ropes a few times at full speed and Animal leapfrogged him that seriously made my jaw drop. Ending was a DQ as all hell broke loose and Spivey destroyed them with a steel chair. A fun way to spend 7 minutes no doubt. We got an old school sighting before it was old school as well:










*NWA World Tag Team Championship - Titles vs. Masks*
The Steiner Brothers (c) vs. Doom - ***

Longest match of the night at 13 minutes, but a chunk of that was stalling in the beginning. Good action though when it got started. Solid heat segment on Scott and a sweet looking frankensteiner. I'm unsure of what happens after this point until Brock watches it (and yeah I'm not looking at the results), but I would hope Doom gets another shot and they're totally pissed off about losing the masks so they win the titles. 

*Steel Cage Match*
Ric Flair, Arn, & Ole Anderson vs. The Great Muta, The Dragonmaster, & Buzz Sawyer - N/R 

What in the hell was this? It felt pointless as a match and certainly pointless that it was in a cage. Went a total of 6 minutes and Sawyer's crazy ass was bumping for most of it. Who tf is The Dragonmaster? :lol

--------------------------

Hey on a serious note though, even though this show was far from a classic, this was a lot of fun to watch. I didn't feel inclined to skip anything (aside from maybe that awful Luger promo) and most of it was either really entertaining or harmless. Sometimes I love to back and watch some fo these old school formula matches. Refreshing change from the current day.​


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*That Mascaras/Cactus match is fun as fuck for how long it goes. *


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

That bump Foley takes is absurd. 

I was browsing channels on my Roku Player and came across Rasslin.tv. I added it. There are no menus or options to select anything. It appears to just be wrestling roulette. I put it on and it was one of those weird sofcore porn like companies where you have 2 woman not wearing a lot, no crowd, and no commentary. But I can hit the skip and go to a new match. I did. It was a midget match from the 70s or 80s. Then there was a women's match from Japan in the early 90s. Then there was a segment with Jimmy Hart. Then there was some UWF stuff with the Freebirds where Gordy was stripped of the title. Last was a Rock N' Roll Express tag match that was good. 

They throw in an add about a pill for depression or something after like 2 videos. It's a great channel.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FITZ said:


> I was browsing channels on my Roku Player and came across Rasslin.tv. I added it. There are no menus or options to select anything. It appears to just be wrestling roulette. I put it on and it was one of those weird sofcore porn like companies where you have 2 woman not wearing a lot, no crowd, and no commentary. But I can hit the skip and go to a new match. I did. It was a midget match from the 70s or 80s. Then there was a women's match from Japan in the early 90s. Then there was a segment with Jimmy Hart. Then there was some UWF stuff with the Freebirds where Gordy was stripped of the title. Last was a Rock N' Roll Express tag match that was good.


This sounds absolutely fantastic. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Undertaker's in the Royal Rumble match! :woo :woo :woo


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64877314-post35.html

Latest 1990 Update. Mike Tys.................I mean Buster Douglas teaches Savage some lessons and Warrior/Hogan continue to enlighten us.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW WRESTLEWAR 1990: WILD THING*










Teddy Long kicks things off with a promo saying that Dan Spivey is injured and he has a replacement ready for the street fight with the Road Warriors, later.

*Buzz Sawyer & Kevin Sullivan vs. The Dynamic Dudes.*

Totally harmless opening match here. Every time i see Sawyer wrestle, i want to watch more TBH, even at this stage of his career. Pretty standard tag match, with the Dudes opening it up on the heels first. Sawyer/Sullivan get into a funny slapping session with each other over a disagreement. Sawyer the works on Johnny Aces's back for a bit, with a couple of suplexes and a bear hug. Finishing stretch comes when Ace pretty much misses a head scissors, and Sawyer does a snap suplex on him, which seems to legit injure his neck. He then does his 'Jam Sandwich' off the top rope (his big splash), and it's over.

Solid opener TBH.

We then cut to a promo with Missy Hyatt and Norman The Lunatic. How apt. He asks for a hug and a kiss for good luck for his match with Cactus Jack, which Missy obliges. He then asks, i think, for one on the lips, but that ain't happening.

*Norman the Lunatic vs. Cactus Jack Manson.*

"He's down to 384, from 386, so he's been training for this" :lol

Norman comes out with a big teddy bear, which he throws into the crowd for a lucky punter. Cactus attacks him as soon as he gets into the ring. Jack attempts a pin straight off, but is flung to the outside by Norman's massive, frame.

"This isn't a battle of wits, more like battle of nitwits" :lol

Norman does his 'Ultimate Warrior' thing and takes no pain from Jack hitting him in the head, and is like






then proceeds to take over on offense with a clothesline into a BIG BEAR HUG, tosses Jack into the corner into a BIG SPLASH, which promptly knocks him on his face. He proceeds to throw Jack from pillar to post, before Cactus takes his first big bump of the match, over the turnbuckle to the outside, before taking a backdrop over the guardrail.

Jack comes back with an apron dropkick, before getting Norm back in the ring. Jack just pounds on him a bit, and puts the bite on him :suarez Norm makes a short comeback with some headbutts (cos we know how strong his head is now), before Cactus takes back over.

Norm ends up giving Jack a big back body drop (is was more like a drop TBH lol), before missing with a big splash. Finish comes when Jack tries to get Norm into a Piledriver, but Norm reverses it and lifts him over his back, then gives him the BIG SQUAT ON CHEST to pick up the win.

Oh well, Foley turned out alright in the end.

*The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express vs. The Midnight Express (w/Jim Cornette)*

Well this aughta be rather good. Crowd heat on the Midnights from the start, Lane and Gibson start of trading stuff, until Gibson dumps him out the outside. Stand lane isn't happy with referee Nick Patrick and ends up shoving him..........Nick then shoves him right back.

Corny gets involved also with the ref in :lol fashion:










Corney then gets in the ring and does an hilarious drunken type fisty cuffs with himself and Nick Patrick:










:lmao

We get back to normal and Lane/Morton are in the ring, until Ricky dumps Stan out the ring again via an atomic drop. Lane then pushes Eaton over in a fit of rage - TAG TEAM DISSENSION

Lane/Morton back in the ring and Stan goes after him very aggressively with some big punches, yeah he's pissed. Eaton then finally gets in there but is immediately taken down by a series of arm drags by Morton. I love this:










Fantasic move. Another bump by Corny, who is great in this match btw, and the Rock's clear the ring, before it's back to Eaton/Gibson, before long it's a mini brawl, with Lane taking a head post shot, and it's back to Eaton/Morton again. The two have a great punch exchange in the corner before they both topple over ropes and onto the outside. Lane then dumps Morton on his back and that allows Eaton to take over.

Corney gets involved again and whacks Morton in the throat with that damn racket and the Midnight's begin to take charge and build some heat. Eaton ends up dumping Morton head first onto the guardrail, Corney can't help himself from giving him a slap too.

Morton the block an attempt by Eaton to ram him into the post, and reverses it. In the ring, it's Lane/Gibson, with Stan in control. Morton ends up pinning Lane, but there he is again; Jim bloody Cornette is distracting the referee, so he doesn't see it. The Midnight's then get back to work on Morton as Eaton quickly tags back in and breaks up a pin attempt with a neckbreaker and Morton is back playing the FIP role.

He tries to fight back, but Eaton/Lane are in control and Bobby applies a armlock. Another blind tag and Lane is back in to take over. Long heat segment by the Midnight's and Morton is in trouble. I love this segment, and Morton plays a great FIP and the Midnights do a good job maintaining the heat. Eaton then does a big top rope splash, but Morton gets his knees up
and blocks it, this is his chance.

HOT TAG IS MADE AND GIBSON COMES IN AND CLEANS HOUSE.

All four end up in a brawl before that fucking JIOM CORNETTE wallops Gibson on the head with the tennis racket. Gibson kicks out of the pin at 2.9.

The finish then comes and is a bit of a mess TBH, which is a shame. They sort of mess up an attempted double tag team maneuver, and Gibson rolls up Lane for the upset win.

Well, this was FUCKING FANTASTIC. I don't know if this is their best match together, but it's got to be up there, Great tag team wrestling from two teams that know each other so well. Great hope spots and cut offs, Morton with an exellent FIP job. Just a great match.

*The Road Warriors w/Paul Ellering vs The Skyscrapers w/Teddy Long (Chicago Street Fight)*

Mike Enos is apparently the one under the mask who is replacing Spivey. All men are dressed appropriately for this at least. Long is on the mic as the Warriors get on their bikes to Iron Man and ride to the ring. Ellering then gets on the mic and challenges Teddy Long. Mean Mark then throw him into the ring lol and Ellering punches him out the ring with his belt.

That's the cue for both teams to wail on eacth other. The Doom, who are dressed in their tuxedos, come down the isle to observ proceedings. Back in the ring, and the Skyscrapers take over beating on the Warriors. From then on, it's mostly Mark/Hawk and Enos/Animal just wailing on one another, not much variation.

Finish comes when Mean mark gives up and walks away, allowing the Warriors to hit the Doomsday Device on Enos for the win.

Nothing much to this really. 

After match is ok though, Teddy Long, who is now with Doom, gets thrown into the ring, and gets picked up and thrown straight back out onto Doom, who proceed to take off their tuxedo jackets and have a stand off with the Warriors.

Al hell then breaks loose as they essentially start off another street fight all of their own, with the Warriors eventually cleaning house. At least this was a way to transition onto the next feud; Warriors/Doom.

*Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk vs. The Freebirds (US Tag Titles)*

BAD STREET USA

First of all, this was LOOOOOOOOOOOONG. Far too long TBH, match length should have been cut in half.

Two lovely ladies are also in the ring, checking out the Freebirds, to which J.R says "That's an interesting dress she has on, i'm not sure of she's trying to get in it or out if it".  The Fabs messing around here prompts Pillman/Zenk to escort the ladies out the ring and start pounding on the Freebirds.

BAD STREET USA

Match was nothing special TBH and it did go far too long. The most interesting parts was when Pillman/Zenk, mostly Pillman, were on offense, as pretty much all of the Freebirds' offense was soley restholds. At one point, Pillman ran in to break one up, probably because he was sick of having to stand there and watch it for so long lol.

I get they were the heels and were trying to stall the match and garner heat, but they just didn't work in this, esp as the match went for nearly 25 minutes with not much happening. I'm sure there were two FIP segments straight after one another two on Zenk then Pillman.

Pillman got thrown straight into the camera:










Pillman counters a Garvin DDT attempt to Zenk with a top rope cross body for the win. Freebirds attack Pillman/Zenk after the match too, probably their most interesting offense of the match.

Definetly needed time shaved off this. 

*The Steiner Bros. vs. Ole & Arn Anderson (World Tag Titles)*

The Minnesota Wrecking Crew are back together. Scott/Arn start things off, before Arn turns round and punches Rick out the ring, who in turns gets up and punches right back and throwing him into Scott. Ole then grts involved and the two sets go at it with the Steiners punching the shit out of the Andersons.

THIS IS FOR STING, DAMMIT

Scotty takes over and the Andersons want none of it and go for a time out. Once again all hell breaks loose as all four of them get in there and again, the Steiners clean house with a flurry of big punches. It's all the Steiners so far.

They remain in control until Ole/Arn start to work over Rick, who has a short FIP segment here. He tags in Scotty, who gets to work on Arn, before missing with a punch, and hitting the ring post instead. This allows Arn to take over and gets to working over the arm, which Scotty sells well TBH.

Scotty then has a FIP spell, before hitting a wonderful Frankenstienr out of nowhere










He then get the hot tag to Ric, who cleans house, before he quickly rolls up Arn for the win. Post match and Ole/Arn start to destroy Scotty's arm, it an attempt to break it.

Not a classic or anything, but i enjoyed it a fuckload more than the last match and the Steiners from this time are usually worth watching TBH.

*Ric Flair (w/Woman) vs. Lex Luger (World Heavyweight Title)*

Of course this was meant to be Flair/Sting, but Sting injured his knee at COTC and Luger was quickly turned babyface and put with Ric for this.

Oh and it's Ric's birthday










Luger is first up with a pre match promo. Says he ready and what's good for him is very bad for Flair. Flair meanwhile is with Woman by his side for his promo. Says that when you have been champion of the world 6 times, you fear no man.

Yup, we're ready.

The man that everybody wants there and back is STING, and he comes out on his crutches










Damn straight mate.

Luger is next out, followed by the world champion, the man, Ric Flair, accompanied by Woman










YEAH THIS IS BIG AND HERE WE GO

Hot crowd for this as you'd expect. They square off and start jawing at each other to get them going. They start off with some head and arm locks then Luger just says fuck this, and pushes Flair to the floor with great effect. Funk on commentary already putting the match over as it's going to be one of the greats.

Luger again uses his power advantage and Flair isn't happy about this and gets flustered. I sense that is indeed how the match will play out. Luger continues with the power game and Flair bails to get a rest-bite.

This happens again and this time, Flair is like 'Fuck this shit, i'm outta here', and starts to walk the isle, before Lex runs over 'Nope', picks him up, and carries him back to the ring. I just fucking love Luger's power game and how he uses it against Flair.

It's all Lex so far. Ric tries a cheap shot, but Luger is having none of it, and Gorilla presses Ric again to show his current dominance. Flair chops him, but again Lex is like 'Nope', which Ric does a great 'Oh for fuck sake' reaction to and once again, Lex gives him another Gorilla Press Slam and puts on a bear hug/pin attempt, which was good, then Ric does the old thumb in the eye trick, but Luger gets him into the corner for the old ten punches and Flair does his apron face flop. It's still all Luger, here.

But he hip tosses Flair, then goes for a big ariel splash, but Flair moves and it send Lex flying to the outside. This could be a turning point for Ric.

Indeed it is, as he begins to take over and sends Luger into the guardrail. He gets him back in the ring, gives him a big chop, then just dumps him back to the outside. Ric then cleverly asks Woman to get on the apron, to distract the ref no doubt, so he can get to Luger and bounce his head of the guardrail again.

I heard Flair say "Get off you ass and do something". Who was that to? :lol

Ric in full control at the moment. He keeps letting Lex get back up to the apron, then he keeps dumping him back off it again. Back in the ring and Flair continues to take over with knees to the face. Lex kicks out emphatically at the count of 2 and tries to mount a comeback, but he misses a corner spot and is sent running, shoulder first, into the corner, allowing Flair to take over again and work on the arm, using the rope as leverage. Naughty.

Flair tells the crowd to "Shut up, as they are giving him some stick. He then uses the ropes again, and again berates the crowd

"Sit down fat boy and keep your mouth shut" :lmao

Luger looks like he's coming back but Flair pokes him in the eye again and Woman gets involved and pokes him in the eye too for good measure. This continues as Flair swats him down again onto the ropes, and Woman starts pulling at Lex's hair.

It's still all Flair and he works on the arm of Luger and continues to cheat by using the ropes on a pin attempt. Lex then snaps as he grabs Flair and throws him into the corner, and he does his backflip onto the outside. Lex isn't selling shit now and goes after Ric, who is begging Luger to leave off.

Luger gets Ric in a sleeper. Flair counters this by back body dropping Lex and they are both down on the mat, fucked i'd imagine the pace they have kept up. 

Ric gets on the apron to try and suplex Luger to the outside, but he reverses in and gives Ric a big suplex back into the ring. He then goes after the leg by ramming it into the post. He tries to put on the figure four, which looked somewhat sloppy, but Flair wriggles out of it.

Flair knocks Luger down, tries again but Luger reverses it into a big power slam for a 2.9 count. Luger is having none of Flair's chops and Flair bails and they take it once again to the outside. Ric with another fucking thumb in the eye of Lex. i'm surprised he can see at this point.

Back in the ring and Luger gets another nearfall before Ric give him an atomic drop and Lex's leg is hurting. this allows Ric to take over again and gets a nearfall. Lovely double arm suplex by Flair follows this into another nearfall. He jumps on Luger to apply a sleeper hold.

Luger tries to fight back and knocks Flair on his ass for another nearfall before Luger misses an elbow and they're both down. Ric gets up and starts working over Luger's knee. 

FIGURE FOUR LOCKED IN Using the ropes again, Ric. 

Crowd go nuts as STING comes hobbling out to ringside and starts shouting encouragement towards Luger. I fucking LOVE, LOVE this bit










Sting is basically telling Lex to get back in the game. Luger uses this to no sell Flair's shit and runs after him, gets him in the ring, and gives him a Gorilla Press Slam.

CROWD GOING BANANAS as Luger is powering up and starts to finally take his frustrations out on Ric with some big clotheslines and a big vertical suplex for a nearfall. Another big powerslam and Luger signals it's time for THE RACK.

But Luger tries to grab Woman, who slaps Luger, who has his back to Flair, who flies into him with a big knee, knocking the ref down in the process.

REF BUMP

Luger continues to wail on Flair and gives him a super-plex off the top rope. Oh fuck here comes Arn and Ole. Lex swats them out the ring, no nonsense style. Luger has Flair in the TORTURE RACK, but the ref is still down. 

Arn grabs Sting as Ole hits with his crutches. This prompts Luger to run out and clobber Ole and Arn. Fuck yeah. Whilst he's doing that, the ref is counting him out, 7,8,9..........10.

Oh fuck. The Horsemen then pound on Luger as a helpless Sting is forced to watch on. The Steiners come running out and the Horsemen bail. Where the fuck were you 2 minutes ago, Rick/Scott????

Anybody ask me why Ric Flair was great, i'll point them to this, because this is one hell of a fucking match. Pace never lets up, and as good as Luger is here, and he is trust me, Ric is just supreme and i'm not saying he carries Lex, but he puts on one hell of a performance to help him through this. It was the perfect balance of Luger the powerhouse, versus Ric, the wily, experienced general, who will wrestle and cheat his way through anything.

FUCK THIS WAS GREAT. LEGIT GREAT.​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Very well written review @Brock, I love all of the Flair/Luger matches


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So after being brought back into the wrestling world almost by force by close people, I was presented to the idea of why the fuck not just catching up to the rest of all the cool shit I had missed from 2016. Ehh, I'm still overly interested, but I did see some good shit.

I watched the 4-Way from Extreme Rules, which I thought was legit GREAT and I'd give **** to. Very smart, very entertaining, great emphasis on story progression (particularly for Zayn/Owens), and was very low on the stupid shit like rolling out of the ring for no reason and finisher kick-outs (only one was unprotective of the finisher that spawned it).

Then, I saw the ENTIRE Cruiserweight Classic. Yup, been low on life as of lately. Happens when you get a college break and you don't go out all the time. Anyway, these be my rankings:

Ibushi/Kendrick (E8) - ****1/2
Ibushi/Alexander (E5) - ****1/4
Metalik/Tajiri (E5) - ***3/4
Metalik/ZSJ (E10) - ***1/2
Ibushi/Maluta (E1) - ***1/2
Kendrick/Nese (E6) - ***1/2
DIY/Dar & Alexander (E10) - ***1/2
Kendrick/Mendoza (E3) - ***1/4
Gargano/Ciampa (E4) - ***1/4
Tozawa/Gallagher (E6) - ***1/4
Gallagher/Aichner (E4) - ***1/4
Alexander/Petiot (E1) - ***1/4
Tajiri/Slater (E2) - ***1/4
Metalik/Tozawa (E8) - ***1/4
ZSJ/Gulak (E6) - ***
ZSJ/Dux (E3) - ***
Metalik/Saez (E1) - **3/4
ZSJ/Dar (E9) - **3/4
Perkins/Ibushi (E10) - **
Perkins/Swann (E9) - **
Lince/Ali (E2) - *3/4
Perkins/Mack (E2) - *1/2
Tozawa/Johnson (E2) - *1/2
Perkins/Gargano (E7) - *
Dar/Hoho (E6) - *
Perkins/Metalik (E10) - *
Nese/Bennett (E3) - 3/4*
Swann/Lee (E4) - 1/2*
Swann/Lince (E6) - 1/2*
Gulak/Harv (E3) - 1/4*
Hoho/Daivari (E1) - 1/4*
Dar/Gurv (E4) - DUD

Kendrick gets MVP of the tournament for me. Ibushi was initially going to get the rub, but then he went retard in the match w/TJ Fuckstick and lost it from me. TJ who, honestly, gets the LVP prize (which is ironic given how HE WON IT) over even Rich Swann, who was fucking useless throughout his run. At least Swann showed slightly better wrestling fundamentals through character work and noticeable, if bad, selling of his knee in the Perkins match (which, btw, despite having the two most detestable asswipes of the tourney outside of Hoho, wasn't as awful as I feared). Plus, Swann didn't go all the way to the finals and won. Pukings had the chance of producing 5 good matches, and he produced ZERO. Even against Ibushi and Metalik, the #2 and #3 MVP's of the tournament. I fear he'd turn Kendrick retard as well. Tbf though, the Metalik match wasn't retarded, it was just boring as shit cause I didn't give a crap at that point. Ugh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I only watched two days of the cruiserweight classic but the best thing was that luchadore who had those shitty little teeth on his mask. I 100% don't exaggerate saying I spend the entire match laughing at it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Great Tag Title match between DIY & The Revival on NXT tonight, to no one's surprise.  There's not really much they can do on TV to come anywhere close to their Takeover matches, but this was still quality stuff. Great heat segment on Gargano. *** 1/2+

SD Tag Title match between Alpha & The Wyatts was good too, but that was more of a way to continue the Orton & Harper dissension. Idk why but Jordan & Gable suplexing Orton/Wyatt and throwing them around was such a weird dynamic.  ***


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I only watched two days of the cruiserweight classic but the best thing was that luchadore who had those shitty little teeth on his mask. I 100% don't exaggerate saying I spend the entire match laughing at it.


I don't remember that but I wish I did. It'd be a nice memory to wash away the sourness of Pukings.

Seriously. Did I mention TJ Perkins fucking sucks? I HATE HIM.

Oh well. At least I still got the Ibushi and Kendrick goodness to memba.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64953297-post44.html 1990 update. Warrior is the heel, riiiiiiiiiight?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Those Warrior promos leading to WM against Hogan were both :lmao and :mark: worthy all at the same time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

They're completely ridiculous but at the same time, there is some entertainment in amongst the nonsense. Hogan's aren't exactly Shakespeare either tbh.

I can't remember most of these, only really the match, even though I was watching at the time. My brain has probably erased them from my sanity lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steve Williams vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (UWF 6/9/91)*

For the UWF SPORTSCHANNEL CHAMPIONSHIP

Williams comes out to "Bad To The Bone" :mark:

They face up right from the off and start jawing at each other, but before this gets started, Herb Adams is then introduced and bought out with the "$100,000 (reaaaaaly) Championship belt.

Herb goes to shake Bigelow's hand, but is met with aggression, and that triggers Williams to go after Bam Bam with some clotheslines, before missing with one and allowing Bigelow to hit one back, who then takes over with some big headbutts and strikes, seemingly busting Williams open.

Williams mounts a comeback with a BIG clothesline that span Bigelow in half










He then takes over with some big knees to the head of Bam Bam, who is now also busted open. Williams continues with some big punches and chops. Bigelow then comes back with some more big headbutts and goes for a suplex, but is rolled up for a 2 count.

Williams starts hitting back with some more big knees, but Bigleow catches him and delivers a back drop for another 2 count. Bam Bam continues with the headbutts, with the blood dripping on one side of his face and into his eye. He then does a big splash over the top rope onto Williams and pins him for another 2 count.

He follows this up with a DDT and another big splash, this time from the top turnbuckle for another 2 count. Bigelow goes for a big clothesline but is caught by Williams, who delivers a belly to belly side suplex and pins for another 2 count.

Dr.Death is all fired up now and puts on a big clothesline and a running shoulder block. Bam Bam is now staggering, wondering where the fuck he is, so Williams goes again for the shoulder block, this time knocking Bam Bam down. A big power slam follows this for yet another 2 count.

They then start trading big punches before Williams tries to give Bigelow another big power slam, but Bam Bam is having none of it and holds onto the ropes, so Williams punches him some more and tries again, succeeding this time in delivering a big power slam for the win and is the new champion.

Yeah, just a short, big man match with both of them clubbing each other. Not really much actual wrestling, both got busted open early and kept pounding on each other for the entire match. A good big man, hoss brawl.​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey @Brock do you plan on watching any UWF in the 1990 project? Basically is there anything on the comp? 

EDIT: Not UWf, I meant GWF or the Global Wrestling Federation or USWA. Whatever the fuck it's called. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Hey @Brock do you plan on watching any UWF in the 1990 project? Basically is there anything on the comp?
> 
> EDIT: Not UWf, I meant GWF or the Global Wrestling Federation or USWA. Whatever the fuck it's called. :lol


You mean Lawler's USWA? 

Yeah I plan to once I've finished watching the WWF/WCW stuff tbh, as there is some stuff on the discs.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Could someone hit me up with their favourite Lawler matches besides the Funk and Dundee stuff? I'm in the mood for some punchin' :cozy


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Martins said:


> Could someone hit me up with their favourite Lawler matches besides the Funk and Dundee stuff? I'm in the mood for some punchin' :cozy


[hide]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiG3hGM1J6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STQdK7WAkuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ripptYIO-6w (part 1 of vvvv)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEUsz3kcZjw (part 2 of ^^^^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G--FEadIesA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJx_kMM7qjE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWTgZUcFd14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf7_l_C2cxQ (part 1 of vvv)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYRzKSydQU0 (part 2 of ^^^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8q19i9BtH8 (this is like an hour long)

[/hide]


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched the 1st round of the UK Title Tournament. Nothing overly special aside from the main event (which I'll get to in a bit), but very easy to watch. I don't think a lot of the guys got to really stand out or showcase their talents as much as they did in the CWC, but I guess that's partly because the tournament _actually_ took place in the UK so everyone in the audience was already familiar with them. Aside from the two I was familiar with (Dunne & Andrews) I actually took a liking to Wolfgang. He reminds me of one of the fucking Godwinns. :lol Totally rooting for him over this Trent Seven guy but I don't see that happening. That matchup between Conners & Drake looked like I was watching a set of twins wrestle each other. So weird and probably my least favorite of the night. I also had no idea that Danny Burch was Martin Stone. He got busted open BADLY but that was a good heel showing from Devlin.

Anyway, that main event was really good (Tyler Bate vs. Tucker). Tucker hit I swear to god one of the nastiest superkicks I've ever seen IN MY LIFE that got a great reaction. Fun match that I think got the most time at like 10 and a half minutes, which shows you how easy it is to get through. *** 1/2

Tomorrow's matchups and my picks:

*Tyler Bate* vs. Jordan Devlin
*Trent Seven* vs. Wolfgang
*Pete Dunne* vs. Sam Gradwell (I don't even remember this guy doing anything :lol)
*Mark Andrews* vs. Joseph Conners

*Tyler Bate* vs. Trent Seven
*Pete Dunne* vs. Mark Andrews

Tyler Bate vs. *Pete Dunne*

If the four that are expected to win do so, I could see those matches all going either way based on how all four have been presented and their past reputation. Dunne is probably my current pick though unless they plan on trying to sign Andrews to the cruiserweight division or something. I don't really care about Trent Seven, honestly.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

While it isn’t nearly as in depth as some of the other Collections on the Network with it being more of a greatest hits than necessarily a proper recollection of their arc, I’m honestly surprised they have only just done one for The Shield. Can’t believe it’s been over four years already back when CM Punk was actually relevant and Ryback was being pushed as Goldberg lite. 

I just watched their PPV debut in the first ever Six-Man TLC match against Team Hell No with Ryback and the lead into all of this reminded me how goofy this actually was. I didn’t realise just how far they’d come along since these geeks in cosplay we have here, well other than Ambrose who appears to have seriously regressed before he climbed back to the level he debuts at here. 

It isn’t the greatest debut of all time, I really wish WWE would move away from hardcore matches now they’re so watered down. Yeah the match had some good spots all things considered but still. I do like how they're presented like a pack of rabid dogs with no quit, it fits them so much better than if they debuted as some polished tag team which weirdly happens more often than you might think. A guy with a gimmick who isn’t necessarily a wrestler per se but then goes out and wrestles a pretty bog standard match. Also surprise, Reigns' gets their first clean pin with The Shield going over Daniel Bryan and Kane but oddly with Ryback left standing tall. 

Next we skip straight to Wrestlemania 29 with another alliance formed in the name of taking down The Shield, which I’ll watch some point later.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64969537-post45.html

1990 Update time. 

Bret/Martel match, more Warrior/Hogan stuff, Bret says bullshit, and Warrior does a sunset flip.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A thread about 1995 inspired me to watch this, again;

*Bret Hart vs Diesel (WWF Championship) (WWF Survivor Series 1995)*

Mr.Perfect joins J.R and Vince on commentary here. This has always been one of my favorite WWF matches, so i'm looking forward to this.

Both Bret and Diesel look great and ready for business. Nash starts out by removing the top turnbuckle pad and throwing it to the outside. Bret just goes 'Yeah, well i can do that too', and proceeds to follow suit, and they're both like "You ready to do this or what?"

They continue to try and psych each other by calmly staring and Bret starts circling the big man, before running Nash into the corner and tries to go for the leg, but Nash has none of it and starts landing big punches onto Bret and clubbing his back. He keeps him in the corner to deliver his big elbow and knee strikes. He won't let Bret out of that corner as he continues to hammer him with big blows.

Bret bails to the outside for a breather but Nash calmly follows him like he's Michael Myers and gives him a big clubbing forearm to the back, before picking him up and planting Bret's head off the guardrail. No count out in this match either. Nash still in complete control of this one. He throws Bret back into the ring, taking his time and methodically hovering over him. Bret tries to bail again to the outside, but Nash is right there again and starts choking him with his big boot. 

Bret tries a comeback and starts kicking at Nash's leg, but gets cut off by some punches the the head and a big punch that knocks Bret back onto the outside. Nash keeping that slow pace and he's got the Hitman exactly where he wants him. He slams Bret into the steel steps. Bret taking a hammering atm, as Nash picks him up and slams into the post.

Nash walks over to the bell area, throws a bloke off his chair, right into the camera lol










He then takes that same chair and hit's Bret's back with it. No DQ remember in this one. Nash warms his hands and throws Bret back into the ring and slams him, back first into the turnbuckle, before giving him a powerful clothesline. Nash shouts "Do you know what time it is?", and seems to signal for the Jacknife Powerbomb. He tries, but Bret blocks it and grabs Nash's leg. Nash keeps trying, but Bret won't let go of that damn leg, and starts to BITE Nash's arm lol, before landing some big punches of his own.

This might just be the big Bret comeback.

He then BITES Nash's ear seemingly, before raking his eye, jumping on his back and putting a sleeper/chokehold on. Bret starts kicking at Nash's leg, as he tries right at the start of the match, knowing this is his next strategy. Big knees to the leg and a snapmere to Nash, who holds his leg in pain. Bret isn't letting him off and does a big power squat off the ropes onto his damaged leg. It looks like Bret is going for the Sharpshooter, but ends up putting on a Figure-Four.

Nash is puffing and blowing and is selling the agony here, trying to drag himself to the ropes. The ref tells Bret to release the hold because Nash has the ropes (this is bought up by Perfect on commentary, who points out "What's he (ref) going to do, DQ him?"), but Bret ends up releasing the hold, before going back to the leg with big knee strikes. Nash can't get off the mat as his leg is being destroyed here and Bret is in complete control of him.

He tries to put the Sharpshooter on, but Nash pokes him in the eye, TWICE. Nash then shoves Bret, with his legs, head first onto one of those exposed turnbuckles (the one Nash took off, which was a nice touch if that was intended). He then starts clubbing Bret, this is the big Diesel comeback??!!

Nope, Bret grabs that leg again and slams it into the post, twice. Bret grabs some sort of power cord or lead that is wrapped around the post and ties Nash's leg to it!! But that was frivolous as Nash delivers a big leg drop onto Bret's head. Nash tries to get up, but his leg remains tied to the rope, so Bret gets on the turnbuckle drops an elbow onto him. Nash is flat on his back as Bret then goes to the outside and grabs a chair. He tries to swat Nash with it, who counters and on one leg, delivers a couple of big boots to Bret, knocking him down.










What a battle this has been so far. Nash then tries grabbing the chair, but Bret stands on his hand, grabs the chair for himself, and whacks Nash on the back with it and then back to the leg with some big standing chair shots. Nash is still down and tied to the post lol, as Bret stays in control with some big elbow strikes. Not a single pinfall attempt as of yet either, what a refreshing change eh.

Bret picks him up for a back drop. He's still got that chair, and proceeds to climb to the top turnbuckle with it, but Nash gets up and hits Bret, knocking him onto his gentlemen's parts

'Don't rub 'em son, count 'em'

Nash then, still tied to that post, throws Bret off the turnbuckle into the middle of the ring. He then realizes he has to untie himself to do any sort of damage onto Bret. Nash is now free, but is limping, as he should be after the shit his leg has taken. He plants Bret with a side slam before going for the first pin of the match and getting a 2 count.

He rams Bret face first into that exposed turnbuckle (we all know how well Bret can do this). We also get our first instant replay of the match, another refreshing feature here. Nash limps over (good selling here btw) to Bret, before just about landing a big, two legged squat onto Bret at the ropes. He picks him up and carries him over to the corner, still limping here, and delivers Snake Eyes to Bret. He tries to do the same onto the exposed turnbuckle, but Bret blocks it and rams Nash's head straight into it.

Crowd start to come alive now as Bret mounts his comeback with some punches to Nash. He gets Nash down with a big clothesline and goes for another pin, but only gets a 2 again. Bret has the momentum here and delivers a top rope bulldog onto Nash and gets another 2 count. He gives Nash a side Russian leg sweep to keep him down on the mat and gets another 2 count. Both back on their feet and Bret starts laying in some more punches, before clotheslining Nash onto the outside. Bret tries to leap over the top rope onto Nash, but misses and takes a big bump onto the floor.

Nash gets back in the ring to get his bearings back as Bret lays on the outside. Bret tries to get back in the ring, but Nash shoves him off the apron an onto the table (remember when this was refreshing)










Great little moment too as some of the crowd, mostly kids, run over to take a closer look, and i hope lol, see if Bret is ok. Nash goes over, picks Bret up, and clubs him down, Bret still tries to get up and Nash does a 'What the fuck, you still trying to get up?'. He throws Bret back into the ring and signals for the Jacknife. He goes to put Bret int position, but Bret is dead on his feet, and just flops right back down onto the mat. 

Nash is too complacent here as he's standing over Bret, and is then shocked to fuck as Bret ROLLS HIM UP FOR THE WIN!!!










Bret Hart is your new WWF World Champion. Nash is like "Motherfucker"










He gives Hebner one hell of a shove and picks Bret up and delivers a Jacknife. Pfft, poor loser. A load of other refs come in and try to stop him, but he just swats them away with big punches and gives Bret another fucking Jacknife Powerbomb. SOMEONE STOP THIS MADMAN.

Nash then spits onto the outside lol and exits the ring. 

Well do i still love this? FUCK YES I DO. it is just the perfect big man, little man formula, etched into a no DQ setting. Nash is on point mostly with the selling of the leg, Bret is great as always on his offense, as is Nash TBH. There are multiple spots that they incorporate the stipulation into and it feels like a war, with Bret trying to survive, before getting a gameplan together.

I'll have to re-watch their matches at KOTR and RR to see how they compare, but this has always been the best one IMO and is still my favorite. Nash's best match? Probably still is, although his match with Shawn at IYH would run it close TBH. Just excellent storytelling and psychology, brilliantly executed by both men. Maybe it would have been enhanced if one, or both, of them got some blood to help the narrative and those turnbuckle shots, but that's only a small observation that's not really important TBH​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Night 2 of the UK Title Tournament was a GREAT show. Definitely an early candidate for WWE show of the year imo because everything was worth your time and everything served a purpose. Such an easy watch too.

2nd Round: Pete Dunne vs. Sam Gradwell - ***
2nd Round: Mark Andrews vs. Joseph Conners - *** 1/4
2nd Round: Trent Seven vs. Wolfgang - *** 1/2 (They threw BOMBS at each other and gave us a great swerve)
2nd Round: Tyler Bate vs. Jordan Devlin - *** 1/4 (Love the heat that Devlin got here)

Semi Final: Pete Dunne vs. Mark Andrews - **** (Barnburner of a match)
Semi Final: Wolfgang vs. Tyler Bate - ** 3/4

Neville vs. Tommy End - *** 1/4 (Was this Tommy's WWE debut? Legit don't now, but that's a nifty way to do it if so. Had a good showing but I'm glad they let Neville go over. This may have been the first ever meeting too)

Finals: Pete Dunne vs. Tyler Bate - **** 1/4 (Perfect storm of a match. Tremendous performances from both and a fantastic atmosphere. Both these guys gained SO MUCH out of this tournament)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Great fun but I don't think anything stood above 3 1/2 in match quality for me (Dunne/Andrews, Dunne/Bate both meeting that). It's provided the WWE with three great names to add to NXT or 205 Live if they sign contracts.

Hopefully WWE does re-visit this tournament and that they can attract a few big names to help showcase Britain just as well as they did here.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah Andrews would be a perfect fit for 205 Live. Hope they get him signed to help build that division. Dunne I think would get over on the main roster in a heartbeat as a heel. Don't know if I can say the same about Bate, even though he's very impressive for a 19 year old.

I'm really curious to see what they do with the belt from here. How or when will it be defended? Only a part of WWE shows or can he defend it anywhere in the UK? Will they bring him to the US at any point?


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Pete Dunne VS Tyler Bate was fucking *FUN.* Had Bate sold the arm better I'd definitely go ****+ on this, but the lack of proper selling was the biggest gripe I had with this match. Nevertheless, Dunne's work on the arm was fantastic, and some spots like the 450-into-a-stomp (intentional? no?) were pretty fuckin' cool. ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/64993753-post48.html

1990 Update.

Cactus Jack gets to wrestle, more insight from Hogan & Warrior and Flair has another MOTYC.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some damn good stuff on RAW tonight. The opening segment was awesome and Lesnar cleaning house was wonderful. The crowd responded REALLY well to his stare-down with Strowman too so that's a really good sign for him.

Tag Titles: Cesaro & Sheamus vs. Gallows & Anderson - *** 1/2 (man this had a great swerve)
Reigns, Rollins, & Zayn vs. Owens, Jericho, & Strowman - *** 1/2 (HOT)

Complete chaos at the end was great too with Owens putting Reigns through the announce table. I'm loving this build because they're planting seeds of so many matchups. Rumble is completely unpredictable right now. 

Oh and the Charlotte/Bayley build has been good too. Really hope Bayley pulls the upset but they may wait until the Mania.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. Can we expect Kurt Angle in the Royal Rumble then?

What was that chintzy video package for Snuka meant to achieve? Am I meant to feel sad because he got away with murder? Heh. I like how the first brain buster on WWE TV for a very long time was done on the night of his announced death. Gotta keep the peace though as they are in the throws of that massive lawsuit, right?

One VS All but Reigns can’t even win a handicap match against two of the weakest guys on Raws roster? Either way I’m guessing the road to Wrestlemania starts with Reigns as Universal Champ. I just wonder what that means for the assumedly impending return of Finn Balor and the whole Lesnar, Goldberg business. 

Interesting they kept Zayn in the picture, gave him that little stare down with Lesnar before Lesnar did that release german and practically launched him out the ring. Maybe Raw finally has plans for Zayn. Shame they had Strowman backing down from Lesnar. To be fair though id this is a taste of the Rumble to come, it’s probably gonna be epic! 

Was that weird backstage skit a joke at Zayn’s expense and also a reference to the backstage murmurs that he’s a pain in the ass to work with? Micromanaging every aspect of their match and becoming incensed if even a single strike is out of place? 

I really wish they’d stop with the constant Shield teases though, what was the point of breaking the group up and putting them on separate brands if they’re gonna continue to reference the damn stable every episode? I mean what are they doing now, are they trying to tease a Shield with Zayn instead of Ambrose?

The weird moment when you realise Raw’s most badass heel is probably Nia Jax. Why the hell Sasha is slumming it in this nothing feud and not defending the Raw Women’s title around the world is truly beyond me. Especially if they put the belt on Bayley during Wrestlemania, that would just be so wrong. Yeah Bayley was an MVP on NXT but NXT and the Main Roster are two different worlds which we learn the hard way practically every time someone is called up and on the Main Roster, Bayley is no one they are pushing as someone so desperately it’s 2015 into 2016 Roman Reigns level of bad. No matter how many cheap babyface pops you set up and clean pins over Charlotte you give her you can’t just bottle the lightning that was her in NXT and expect it to just translate right across.

It would have probably been pretty stupid to have Sheamus and Cesaro drop the titles to The Club but it wouldn’t have been more stupid than that terrible finish to their match. Ugh. 

It was a solid NJPW style Main Event at least, as they took all their Main Players who haven’t got anything to do right now and just stuck them in a massive tag match. I mean obviously you’re going to get some exciting elements with so many combustible elements in one space but the six men in this match have all been fighting amongst themselves for like the last 12 months so they all have real synergy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> New Raw. Can we expect Kurt Angle in the Royal Rumble then?


In an interview he had after the induction was announced, he said he wasn't planning on having a match at Wrestlemania but obviously that could be a lie. Either way whenever he's on screen, EVERYONE in the crowd will be shouting for one more match. In the same interview he said he'd love to face AJ Styles or Seth Rollins if he ever had the chance.

FWIW though, he's schedule to wrestle at an indy show in March. Steel Cage match vs. Cody Rhodes and in their announcement they said "come see Angle in what may be his last ever non-WWE appearance" so we shall see. Also the night before the Rumble, he's supposed to do commentary for a 5 Star Wrestling show that's gonna air on Spike in the UK. Angle's acting like he had no idea the HOF call was coming so it very well may have been a surprise to him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm pessimistic about an Angle in ring return tbh, even for a one off match. He may do some sort of spot at WrestleMania on someone, but IDK.

If he's ok enough for one last match and WWE are ok with it, that would be perfect. If he's really hanging up the boots of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/65019449-post49.html

1990 Update. MX squash, Warrior & Hogan contract signing and Sting works out.

Wrestlemania 6 here we come...................


----------



## Theszpress22 (Sep 2, 2016)

Johnny Valentine vs Bull Curry - 6/20/69 Houston, TX

Thanks to NWAonDemand this gem was released last year and it is great. This may be the only full Valentine match in North America so that's how rare it is and it did not disappoint. 

This a 2/3 falls match, the first few minutes is both guys feeling each other out. The crowd is going nuts for every Bull Curry punch, Valentine works a headlock but he's not holding it, he is working it and Curry is just trying to get some air. Valentine hits Curry with vicious elbows and fists on the apron. Curry Potatoes Valentine in the face and gets mad and pins him for the 1st fall.










2nd fall and Valentine continues to punish but Curry comes back with fists of his own and Valentine does the most obvious bladejobs you will see and the facials on Valentine after this is tremendous and Valentine gets counted down and the 2nd fall goes to Bull Curry.










3rd fall begins and both men are exchanging blows and go to the outside and both men get counted out. Bull stands in the ring and the crowd is going crazy for him at the Sam Houston Coliseum.

Just a fantastic match, so simple yet so effective. No flips, no dives, just a fight and the fans are loving it. A great look at the Houston territory.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown only had 3 matches tonight but all 3 were solid (*** for all of them). Styles/Miz, Orton/Ambrose, and the Alexa/Becky steel cage match. Styles/Miz I feel like was a bit of a way to test the waters and the crowd was WAY behind Styles so it keeps the option for him to go back to being a face. Orton/Ambrose was the two pretty much sleepwalking their way to a very solid TV match marred by a predictably weak finish. Orton vs. Harper next week will be veeeeeery interesting. Cage match was fun but just way too short. Could've been far better with more time. La Luchadora thing was predictable but in a good way. Nice to see Mickie back to expand the SD women's division even more.

Talking Smack continues to always be worth a watch too. Corbin & Wyatt had great promos tonight and last week we saw a totally different side of Mojo Rawley that I really enjoyed.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I thought this weeks was a complete nothing episode of SmackDown. It's so weird to explain, it felt so much like filler yet it was actually doing a lot of work in moving SmackDown forwards as we begin Wrestlemania season.

I will say though that the Steel Cage match for the Women’s Title was a pretty good match, even if it was very short. Weak until the finish, any way. Why would the ref just let Luchadora in like that? I get that Lynch going over here probably wouldn’t have made sense but not like this. Also the big reveal… was the most obvious one? I also guess this means they are moving Becky away from the Title but then who is taking her place? Natalya?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Theszpress22 said:


> Johnny Valentine vs Bull Curry - 6/20/69 Houston, TX
> 
> Thanks to NWAonDemand this gem was released last year and it is great. This may be the only full Valentine match in North America so that's how rare it is and it did not disappoint.
> 
> ...


*YES

Everyone who considers themselves a wrestling fan needs to at worst get the free month trial for NWA On Demand. So much classic stuff that's never been seen before Bruce released it via this. Valentine/Curry is one of the best things on there which is high high praise. 

Watch Lothario/Gordman if you haven't already. If you love that you'll love this too. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> Why would the ref just let Luchadora in like that?


I asked myself this while laughing a few times. She just stood at the door. :lol


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Five Lessons WWE Can Learn from 2016*
*Part 1* - http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2017/01...utshining-todays-stars-women-babyface-losers/
*Part 2* - http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2017/01...gns-experiment-shinsuke-nakamura-nxt-revival/


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Corey said:


> I asked myself this while laughing a few times. She just stood at the door. :lol


I sometimes wonder if WWE are even trying any more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen (NJPW 9/23/81)*

Well this'll be fun. If you wished to show someone what Andre could do in a setting like this, then show them this match. It's him and a big, hard bastard in Mr. Stan Hansen, going balls to the wall to kick the living shit out of one another........and it's fucking GLORIOUS.

Hansen is the babyface here so it's pitted like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. So here we go.

Andre barley gets in the ring when Hansen just goes straight after him lol, but Andre gives him a swift kick to the gut. He follows this up with a couple of strikes and a headbutt, before Stan takes charge with some big elbows. Crowd is hot for this and for Hansen, already. He whips Andre into the corner, but Andre gives him a big bot to the face, which topples Hansen right over. He's selling it like “What the fuck was that, where am i”

Andre then puts him in a bear hug, whilst Stan tries to break free with some clubbing blows to his back, but Andre has got those arms wrapped around tight and won't let go. Hansen then gives him a walloping right arm and it knocks them both onto the mat, together. Stan delivers a couple of more punches before Andre puts him in a armbar and takes it to the mat. Crowd is loud and chanting for Hansen, as Andre tells them to “Shut up”. He gets up off Hansen and stomps on his hand, before trash talking the crowd some more. This allows Stan to get back up and gives Andre one hell of a big chop

Andre gives him a headbutt, before going back to work on the arm. He whips Hansen into the corner and runs at him, shoulder first, but misses and topples onto the apron. This gives Stand the opportunity to start stomping the shit out of Andre. He tries to then lift Andre for a bodyslam, for which both the crowd and the commentators are going wild for, but Andre blocks it and goes back to Hansen's arm.

Andre continues to twist the arm in a sort of Kimura type lock. Hansen starts to try and break out of it by clubbing Andre's legs with some big right hands. There is a slight break, but Andre goes right back to the arm. Stan is in agony as Andre is literally twisting his arm and his wrist, but he gets a hold of Andre's hair, who screams like a wild beast

Andre gets up and once again, targets the arm, but Stan keeps punching the stomach of Andre with big fists to try and finally break free. Andre delivers a great Suplex-Slam onto Stan, and then goes for a big Headbutt, but Hansen moves out of the way, so Andre suddenly has to put the brakes on.










Andre gives him a big right hook to the back, before applying a chinlock, with a really aggressive expression on his face I have to say. Hansen tries to grab a piece of Andre;'s hair again to break the hold, but Andre swats him away and gives him a big club to the midriff, before using his big legs to apply a big squat on Hansen's back. He whips Stan against the ropes, but Hansen kicks him in the face and delivers a BIG ASS BODY SLAM HEARD AROUND THE WORLD










Crowd and commentators alike are fucking loving this. Stan then gets to work on Andre's back with some kicks and big forearms. He then puts on the Camel-Clutch to try and inflict more pain to the back area. Andre gets out of it, but Hansen just gives him a stiff arm to the back of the head and starts stomping the back of his head with some big knee strikes. They both eventually roll onto the outside and just start beating the shit out of each other. Just big fucking clubs, they both takes turns in ramming each other's heads into the post and apron respectively. Then the bell suddenly rings, can't be a count out yet, so I think the ref has had enough of them wailing on each other?

Hansen gets in the ring and is like “What the fuck happened”, and signals, asking the cord if they want more of this. Yes we fucking do, please. Andre gets back in the ring and starts politely asking the ref for an explanation










DRAMA

Both of these two big bastards just want to continue and fight. Stan is like “Let's fucking get this thing on again”, and is more than ready to carry on trying to beat the shit out of Andre. Andre is grabbing the ref and an official and seems to tell the ref to 'Get this other fucker to get this match started again'. Eventually it is announced that the match would be restarted, for which the crowd go fucking NUTS for. Andre waives the officials to gets out the ring, and Hansen takes this opening to go right after him with big forearms and a bloody HIP TOSS!!! Which rather hilariously knocks the ref down for a moment










Hansen just keeps giving Andre big strikes and knees and one of these sends Andre into the ropes, which he ends up getting caught in. Stan is overjoyed by this and knows he's got him right where he wants him. He just starts to punch the shit out of him, before Andre breaks free and reveres it, putting Hansen in the ropes and giving him one hell of a big chop to the chest. It was that fucking big, it even knocked Andre off his feet. Andre gives a great bad guy “HA, HA HA HA”, before giving Hansen a headbutt. Andre then seems to remove the turn-buckle and tries to ram Stan's head into, but he reverses it and it's Andre's head that connects.

This knocks Andre half way across the ring. Stan then goes for a drop elbow, but Andre moves and quite ingeniously, puts him straight into an armbar. I'm sure Hansen is probably saying at this point “Not that fucking arm again”. He then grabs Stan's arms from behind and starts stretching him and giving him a big headbutt. He eventually picks him into a bodyslam and throws Hansen across the ring. He goes for a big splash, but misses, and Hansen tries for a flying elbow, but also ends up missing.

FUCK THIS HAS BEEN A BATTLE

Andre whips Hansen into the ropes, but Hansen ducks and delivers a LARIATOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










Which sends Andre flying out of the ring. Andre gets back in the ring and the ref tries to then separate them both and tell Andre to back off 

:hutz

What the hell are you doing, you got a fucking death wish, Son? Andre is obviously having none of this shit, and swats the ref away before giving him a big clothesline. As the ref lies dead on the floor, they both just continue to beat the crap out one another. A bunch of trainers end up helping the ref out, but Stan and Andre couldn't give a fuck, they just want to kill each other by now. The bell then rings, again, is this the end?? The trainers then try and again keep this two BIG HARD BASTARDS
apart, yeah wise move, lads.

One of them ends up with a big clump by Hansen










:lol

The bell ringer is going mad ringing that bell lol, but these two just won't stop, and the trainers continue to try and keep them apart. Leave them alone you insane people. Hansen then just goes 'Fuck this shit' and throws a chair in the ring, before the both finally leave the ring amid utter chaos.

Well, where does one start even trying to sum this up? Two big bastards beating the living daylights out of each other. Andre is great with his bumping here too and has some great expressions and mannerisms throughout the match. Just a wonderful spectacle that everyone who hasn't seen it, should watch it.​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (No Holds Barred) (WWF In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies)*










Was just randomly thinking of WWF in 1996 and this match popped into my head as something i'd like like to revisit. So I dug out the HBK: From The Vault DVD and gave it a watch. I've always loved it and it's a highly regarded match of course, some say it's Nash's best one, although I have said that was his match with Bret at Survivor Series, so we'll see on this one. This was also Nash's last televised WWF match before he split for WCW.

These two were best friends, then there was dissension, Nash turned on HBK and they became enemies. It needed a match fitting to the ongoing hatred these two had against each other, and what better way than a 'No holds barred' match? So, here it is.

Diesel is out first and is looking as cool as ever. He gets in the ring and throws his jacket straight onto Vince at the announce table. He's like “What the fuck is this?”. They show Mad Dog Vachon in the audience. Wonder if he'll come into play in this match :hmm:
HBK is still in the back, being 'coached' by Jose Lothario, although i'm sure in his head, HBK is probably thinking “I don't need your stinking help, i'm fucking ready for the this shit, i'm the WWF Champion”. He finally makes his way out, and takes his jacket and belt off whilst walking to the ring and just goes running in the ring and straight for Diesel.

This thing is fucking on.

He starts clubbing Nash with some big right hands, but Nash finally says 'None of this shit', and gives HBK a big knee to the gut. He sends Shawn into the corner, but he reverses it and dropkicks Nash over the top and onto the outside. He follows this up with a baseball slide to keep Nash out the ring. He gets onto the top turn-buckle and Moonsaults onto Nash

“Unbelievable” - :vince2

HBK then, rather randomly, goes to the Spanish announce table and grabs a boot off someone, before getting onto the top turn-buckle again and ramming the said boot onto Nash's head, and goes for the cover for a 2 count. Nash sends Shawn flying into the turnbuckle, which HBK goes into it back first and flips over the ropes onto the apron. Nash then gives him a big sledgehammer shove and sends Shawn face first onto the guardrail. Shawn is dead.

Nash in control now. He goes to the outside and clumps Shawn with a big right hook, before throwing him back in the ring. Nash continues to pound on Shawn with punches and a big clothesline, before delivering classic 'Snake eyes'. Nash takes this opportunity to go and berate Vince some more lol. He puts Shawn into the corner and shouts “Hey old man, this is how we do it in the 90's” at Jose, before putting big knees into Shawn. He picks him up for a big, jumping side slam. Nash in control and fully enjoying this now.

Nash takes his wrist tape off, for which Earl Hebner doesn't like, so Nash strangles him with it and taking his trousers...........................no no.............belt off. He starts whipping Shawn's back with big
lashes of the belt. Ref is back up and his trousers are still up, so that's good. Not so good for HBK as Nash then uses the belt to strangle him with it, we get a camera close up of Shawn's anguish, which i'm not sure we'd see nowadays TBH. Nash swings HBK around with the belt and hangs him with it, in quite spectacular fashion










“Hang in there Shawn” - Lawler

Nash ties HBK to the ropes with the belt and he's now stuck. Even Vince unintentionally joins in and says “Shawn Michaels, trying to hang on”. Nash then goes over to the announce area and throws poor Howard Finkel off his chair and grabs it. As the ref is trying to untie HBK from the ropes (oh, how nice of him), Nash comes over and wallops him in the back with the chair. Shawn is now untied, but Nash is still in control and holds the chair aloft to show this and whacks Shawn again in the back with it. Nash tries hitting him again with it, but Shawn moves and he hits the ropes with it instead, which cause the chair to bounce back and hit Nash plum in the face. 

This is HBK's big chance and the crowd know it.

Shawn picks up the chair himself and goes to hit Nash with it, but before he can, he gets a nasty low blow for his troubles.

'Don't rub them Son, count them'

The ref throws the chair to the outside and both Nash and HBK are flat, down on the mat. Nash is up first, whips Shawn into the ropes and into the big back body drop. He goes for a pin but only gets a 2 count. He then puts on the old 'twisted skull chrusher thing', man HBK has been through the mill so far. Shawn tries to power out of it, but Nash keeps swatting him with big blows, before one of them sends him to the outside. Nash follows him and signals for the Jackknife, which he does...............onto the announce table where Vince is. 

The monitor ends up hitting Vince plum in the face in the process and his damn headset is also still plugged in










ops

Shawn is dead again. Vince tries to tidy up whilst Nash gets in the ring with the WWF belt and poses with it. HBK eventually tries to make his way back up, not knowing where the fuck he is. He does get up and sneakily grabs a fire extinguisher and fires it straight into Nash's face, blinding him. Mind you, it took him two tries, and after the first failed, he seems to say something like “Motherfucker” :lol

Now this has to be Shawn's big chance.

Ash can't see a thing and is throwing wild, blind punches at thing air :shane HBK takes this opportunity and lands some big right hooks of his own, before hitting a big flying forearm. Nash is finally down, HBK 'kips up' and is feeling it now. He goes to the outside and grabs a chair, but it's got a monitor wrapped around it, but he doesn't seem to notice or care as he whacks Nash with the chair. Lawler is like “That is my headset”. He then wallops Nash right in the face and that sends the big man right down onto the mat. 

Nash is back up and HBK sends him into the ropes and tries a back body drop, but Nash is having none of it and clubs him in the back. He then gives Shawn a BIG BOOT, which I always love. He then signals again for the Jackknife, which he tries to hit, but HBK reverses it and starts punching the fuck out of Nash and gives him a stamps for good measure. He goes to the top and delivers a Macho Man elbow. He's in command now and stamps the mat and signals for 'Sweet Chin Music', he flies at Nash but it get's blocked and Nash gives him a big clothesline. Both are down on the mat.

Man alive this has been FUCKING GREAT.

They both bet back up, but Nash delivers another clothesline and sends Shawn to the outside. He picks Shawn up and plants him, face first, onto the guardrail, before throwing him back into the ring. Just as Nash is about to follow suit, he stops and walks over to the crowd. What is he doing? He goes and grabs Mad Dog Vachon and PULLS OFF HIS FUCKING PROSTHETIC LEG, yes you read that right, HE PULLS OFF HIS FUCKING PROSTHETIC LEG










:hutz

He tries to hit Shawn with the leg, but is instead hit with sweet revenge and he gets a big low blow

'Don't rub them, Son, count them'

Shawn picks up the leg, just typing that makes me smile, waits for Nash to get back up again, and runs over and plants the leg right into the cranium of Nash. That's gotta hurt. He then hits 'Sweet Chin Music' for the win and to retain the WWF Championship.

Shawn then seemed to fire a message to Hogan with “You want a big boy to play with”? :cenaooh

Well, this was just as good as it's ever been. Some big spots that i'd forgotten about TBH, like the table bump HBK took. I just love the pace of the match, the control that Nash has for large proportions of it and the way HBK sells being beat the shit out of. The leg spot if funny, but hey it's a NHB and it added to the match in the end. Just a war, with HBK trying to survive and o what he could, when he could, to come back and make it through. I'd still say Nash's best match was with Bret, but fuck this isn't far off.

A full on, WWF classic, and not the only one of course from this year.​


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New NXT. A really strong episode actually, probably the strongest in a long while. The future for NXT has never seemed brighter and I’m expecting Takeover at this point to steal the show during Royal Rumble weekend. Also, how does Liv Morgan make a bobble hat seem so sexy?!

I loved that Steve Cutler/Roderick Strong match and I don’t think I was intended to for the reasons I did. I mean maybe it was all some cheap babyface pop and I got played, although given the beatdown Cutler received in the end probably not. 

The hell am I talking about? As an adult watcher of wrestling I’ve really grown to really appreciate guys with gimmicks that effectively mean they’re super aggressive and out to hurt people because they're pissed at the board of directors. I mean not only is that relatable for us in the real world but the ridiculous dichotomy of WWE’s kayfabe ladder was made so unintentionally clear during the commentary and match here. Cutler both in kayfabe and real life was a marine, military trained, yeah his name isn’t a brand but he’s in kayfabe or otherwise paid his dues as much as anyone else but as they say, while not in this many words, NXT is apparently this impossible mountain to climb for a relatively unknown talent but if you’ve got a recognisable name, no matter how small a crowd it might be recognisable to for a person like Roderick Strong, you’re given title opportunities effectively immediately with no work actually put in for it, at least within the NXT Arena. I’d be pissed if I was Cutler too, you see this shit at your work all the time too, I’m sure. 

The TM61/Revival match was also surprisingly great and well booked for a match with zero heat. TM61 are kinda bland right now but I think they have a great future ahead and NXT’s Tag Division is probably the hottest division in WWE in general right now so they can really forge a legacy for themselves. And if The Revival never ever get called up? I’d be overjoyed, they’d only fuck them on the Main Roster anyway. Let them carry on being NXT legends.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> New NXT. A really strong episode actually, probably the strongest in a long while. *The future for NXT has never seemed brighter and I’m expecting Takeover at this point to steal the show during Royal Rumble weekend.* Also, how does Liv Morgan make a bobble hat seem so sexy?!
> 
> I loved that Steve Cutler/Roderick Strong match and I don’t think I was intended to for the reasons I did. I mean maybe it was all some cheap babyface pop and I got played, although given the beatdown Cutler received in the end probably not.
> 
> ...


Really? I feel the opposite way, honestly. Their current roster is one of their weakest that they've had in recent years imo. Women's division is pretty depleted and I don't particularly think anyone there is ready to take the next step outside of maybe Ember Moon (which she probably will once Asuka drops the strap to her). Tag division is strong but I'm ready to see The Revival on the main roster and I think their current booking indicates we may see that soon. The main event scene is pretty much non-existent outside of Nakamura & Roode because I assume Joe is debuting at the Rumble or soon after that. Nothing left for him to do. I guess if Itami ever comes back that'll help but I don't give two shits about Chris Hero. Outside of those people there's pretty much no one unless someone starts getting booked stronger than they have before (Young, Strong, Tye, etc.)

As far as the shows goes, how do you have so many gripes with RAW & Smackdown but then enjoy a show so much that had two 4 minute nothing matches and an opening squash? :lol So strange. At least the Sanity/Dillinger segment and the Nakamura/Roode contract signing was good stuff.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Corey said:


> Really? I feel the opposite way, honestly. Their current roster is one of their weakest that they've had in recent years imo. Women's division is pretty depleted and I don't particularly think anyone there is ready to take the next step outside of maybe Ember Moon (which she probably will once Asuka drops the strap to her). Tag division is strong but I'm ready to see The Revival on the main roster and I think their current booking indicates we may see that soon. The main event scene is pretty much non-existent outside of Nakamura & Roode because I assume Joe is debuting at the Rumble or soon after that. Nothing left for him to do. I guess if Itami ever comes back that'll help but I don't give two shits about Chris Hero. Outside of those people there's pretty much no one unless someone starts getting booked stronger than they have before (Young, Strong, Tye, etc.)
> 
> As far as the shows goes, how do you have so many gripes with RAW & Smackdown but then enjoy a show so much that had two 4 minute nothing matches and an opening squash? :lol So strange. At least the Sanity/Dillinger segment and the Nakamura/Roode contract signing was good stuff.


Undeniably the brand split gutted them and they've been battling to recover from that ever since. NXT has been in a bad place for a very long time with the only real bright spark being The Revival/DIY and what they are doing with their Women's Division. That is why I felt like the episode was so strong as because for the first time, in a very long time, there seemed to be a sense of forward motion for the whole episode not just one or two segments sandwiched with meaningless squash matches. Much like how NXT used to be. 

I have gripes with SmackDown and Raw because while the problems may be similar across the shows, two and a half hours of filler out of three on Raw for example is far more criminal than ten minutes out of sixty for NXT.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I ordered the Best PPV Matches of 2016 3-disc DVD set and it was dispatched yesterday. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow but fingers crossed it arrives today as I'd like to watch it today as I haven't watched many PPV matches or much wrestling at all for the past few years (especially 2015/2016). I've still been purchasing various Blu-Rays and DVD's but this will be a nice change to watch matches I haven't even seen (only one on the set I can recall seeing is Undertaker/Shane from WrestleMania). I'm looking forward to Balor/Owens, Reigns/Lesnar/Ambrose, TLC, Sasha/Charlotte/Becky, Owens/Zayn, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did make a thread on this, but it got no sold, probably because it didn't have Reigns or Omega in the title,

So i was searching on YT for some Bret Hart in USWA videos, and came across this great channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/popculturestu/videos

And i found a lot of videos from the promotion and during the WWF 'invasion', including the Bret Hart heel stuff with Lawler and the pre 1997 heel Vince McMahon stuff. Found all the videos, and here are the links:

Harts' War: Chapter 1 - Coronation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mscRWSBMg&t=6s

Harts' War: Chapter 2 - Gold for the Rocket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAYbEbJxCM&t=5s

Harts' War: Chapter 3 - Revenge of the Rocket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ElUzKdn_x0&t=3s

Harts' War: Chapter 4 - Lawler Responds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spj4oyeuaN8&t=5s

Harts' War: Chapter 5 - Four Piledrivers for the Rocket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfKDN0cUhMc&t=2s

Harts' War: Chapter 6 - Hail to the King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2iIho7Q4c&t=2s

Harts' War: Chapter 7 - Be A Man Bert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpsbJaGKlAY&t=3s

Harts' War: Chapter 8 - Lawler vs Christopher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqw1BpIFRU&t=1s

Harts' War: Chapter 9 - Enter the Vampire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVpzDU92XHU&t=7s

Harts' War: Chapter 10 - The King and the Vampire Warrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0SQf60tlnQ

Harts' War: Chapter 11 - I'm Going to Count to Five
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug1DEllRH_0

Harts' War: Chapter 12 - I Hope His Brother is Watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsVZov1TPjc

Harts' War: Chapter 13 - Failure to Communicate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJsSu_bzLI4&t=1s

Harts' War: Chapter 14 - That Don't Sit Too Well With Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68FI9FWejYQ

Harts' War: Chapter 15 - King of the Mountain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ukAWRqEug

Harts' War: Chapter 16 - It's Disgraceland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUWWtc0FdrI

Harts' War: Chapter 17 - The Fabulous One and the King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0pFpzEuxw

Harts' War: Chapter 18 - Taking Sides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRiWfSSpW1E

-------------------------------------------------------

McMemphis: Chapter 1 - The Vile Paul Neighbors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV0fiknn6ws

McMemphis: Chapter 2 - A Royal Guarantee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ3ajYDYABk&t=10s

McMemphis: Chapter 3 - A Yankee in the King's Court
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXeWAhihvU4

McMemphis: Chapter 4 - Don't Forget the Softball Plugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taj-XRsUjgo

McMemphis: Chapter 5 - The Mother of All Matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJKWN1tzro

McMemphis: Chapter 6 - The Heel Debut in Memphis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGbVMMbi6nE&t=10s

McMemphis: Chapter 7 - You Asked For It And You Got It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Fw7loEEfk&t=60s

McMemphis: Chapter 8 - Put My Money Where My Mouth Is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZxwL-VEL6U

McMemphis: Chapter 9 - Hitman Defeated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNgWBWeaMl4&t=1s

McMemphis: Chapter 10 - Giant Invasion at WMC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEtpsGQ3Pk

McMemphis: Chapter 11 - Surprise Surprise Surprise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKyBJ-wRLUU

McMemphis: Chapter 12 - Tatanka the Native American
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CGf_gA-pD0&t=5s

McMemphis: Chapter 13 - King of the Cheaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-8vEwuOZo

McMemphis: Chapter 14 - The True Secret of Voiceovers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXBROjoi0Q0

McMemphis: Chapter 15 - Vince Wears the USWA Title
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_1cW-1xZc

McMemphis: Chapter 16 - The End of the Trail Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsIEJDwOyhA&t=1s

McMemphis: Chapter 17 - Tatanka = No Genius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxKd_dwzKuw

McMemphis: Chapter 18 - Challengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buJ3iYZpL1o

McMemphis: Chapter 19 - A Squash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAMRtUwb2Ag

McMemphis: Chapter 20 - Champions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqTvc34jcg&t=1s

McMemphis: Chapter 21 - Oh Yeah, Dig It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy62nDfs1dQ

McMemphis: Chapter 22 - The Tape Didn't Arrive Dave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AvCGYU_8MI

McMemphis: Chapter 23 - No Longer Undefeated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8fwGgmm8es

McMemphis: Chapter 24 - You Have No Chance In Hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6Rn-K-s2E

McMemphis: Chapter 25 - Death, Taxes & Randy Savage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I3mGNF1cLg

McMemphis: Chapter 26 - Fire on the Mountain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dud8MmtYk70

McMemphis: Chapter 27 - King of the Hicks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBB3KA1Ky0

McMemphis: Chapter 28 - The Equalizer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd0KxWZlbYU&t=2s

McMemphis: Chapter 29 - The Final Interview "Machovision"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIJjWs_TXtQ

McMemphis: Chapter 30 - Epilogue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLbn5I17a5g

I didn't embed the videos, as it slows the pages down when there are too many at once. I have seen some of this stuff with Bret/Vince and Savage, but not all of it. Of course these include arena clips, rather than full matches, as it was with USWA back then.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

So I watched the first disc of the WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016 last night whilst having a few drinks. As I said in my prior post, this was the first time I've seen some of these matches (the exception being Undertaker/Shane which I saw parts of a couple of months back). So here are my ratings so far and a little summary of what I thought of each match:

*Royal Rumble - Intercontinental Championship Last Man Standing Match*
_Ambrose vs. Owens_

A great match with a lot of intensity between these two men, some great spots also where they used the kendo stick, chairs, tables and the steel steps. Funny part where both men shout that they hate each other as they both look spent. Also loved the spot where Ambrose delivered Dirty Deeds on the chair to Owens, who at the count of 9 rolled outside the ring to get to a vertical stance... very smart! A lot of back-and-forth action in this one with both men hitting their finishers and escaping the count, also featured a vicious spot where Owens delivered the Cannonball Senton into the barricade that nearly wiped Ambrose out. Loved the ending where Owens teased doing a Moonsault onto Ambrose who was laying across some chairs, only for the latter to spring to his feet and throw Owens into the two stacked tables to win the match. A really fun match to watch from start to finish, enjoyed the rivalry for the Intercontinental title they had and the fact both men had a lot of resentment for one another.

*Rating:* ****

*Fast Lane - Singles Match*
_Styles vs. Jericho_

This match did start off a little sloppy with the pace and timing of the moves looking a bit off however, the match did start to pick up and about half way through and things really did start to click. I like the story of the veteran Jericho trying to outsmart AJ Styles and trying to avoid his big moves. I really enjoy watching Styles offence, he's so fluid in everything he does. I was a fan of the final 5 minutes where both men were trying everything to put the other away, the Dropkick by Jericho whilst Styles went for the springboard was a nice spot. The ending was different with Styles managing to hit the Styles Clash but Jericho showed some resiliency and kicked out, only for Styles to immediately lock in the Calf Crusher for the submission victory. This was a good way to end the match with Styles not panicking and going for his next move to finish Jericho off who was selling the after effects from the Styles Clash. A good match, apparently not their best from the series but for my first time watching it, I enjoyed it.

*Rating:* ***1/2

*Fastlane - Triple Threat Match to determine the #1 Contender for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
_Reigns vs. Lesnar vs. Ambrose_

What an enthralling match this was from start to finish. I don't have it as high as the Lesnar/Rollins/Cena triple threat match from Royal Rumble 2015 (****1/2-****3/4 for me) but this was still an excellent match from start to finish. The story was fantastically told throughout with Lesnar just decimating both Reigns and Ambrose, who sold his Suplexes really well. The part where Ambrose went for the Suicide Dive only for Lesnar to catch him and deliver a nasty Belly-to-Belly Suplex on the floor was sickening! The match was action-packed and I love the fact Lesnar just OBLITERATED AND DESTOYED both ex-Shield members for 10 or so minutes. Lesnar would take out one from the match and leave the other one isolated and SUPLEX or F5 them only for his pinfall attempt to be broken up. Finally, both Reigns and Ambrose realised they needed to work together to dispose of Lesnar and Powerbombed him through one of the announce tables. Ambrose takes control of Reigns and there's some good back-and-forth exchanges. Lesnar though manages to go into BEAST MODE and get back to his feet, which Ambrose and Reigns notice and so decide to Powerbomb Lesnar through ANOTHER ANNOUNCE TABLE! They pile everything and anything they can find on Lesnar to try and keep him out of the match. This time Reigns takes over and looks to finish Ambrose off and we have more great action between the two.

Finally, Lesnar rises from the dead and out of no where delivers a German Suplex whilst Reigns has Ambrose on his shoulders in a cool looking spot where Ambrose goes flying at full pelt out of the ring! This match is being fought at a frantic pace! Reigns hits the Spear but Lesnar counters into the Kimura Lock. Reigns tries to fight out and gets some much needed assist from Ambrose who swings wildly with the chair at both men only for Reigns to capitalise with the Spear and win an awesome match! Such amazing action; great story told in this one with Lesnar dominating Reigns and Ambrose who both finally plot a plan to remove him from the match (albeit temporarily) so they had better chances of winning. Loved some of the big spots in this one and a great finish!

*Rating:* ****1/4

*WrestleMania 32 - Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match*
_Owens vs. Ziggler vs. Sin Cara vs. Zayn vs. Ryder vs. Miz vs. Stardust_

I saw some comments on this match with some people loving it and some not being that huge on it (when WrestleMania 32 aired). This is my first time viewing it and I was a big fan! There were some pretty amazing and unique spots (Zayn's Suicide Dive through the ladder, Cara being pushed to the outside onto Stardust who was prone on a ladder, Zayn's Half Nelson Suplex onto Owens onto the ladder, etc.) and the match was exciting throughout. Maybe it could have slowed down in portions especially with the big bumps but I have no real complaints about this, it was a blast to watch. Seriously the Half Nelson Suplex from Zayn onto Owens onto the ladder was malicious! The way Owens landed on his head and was stuck between the rungs of the ladder was such a visually impressive spot. I like the little story that Zayn was always there to stop Owens from retaining the title, the war between these two was well told. The finish was out of no where with Miz looking to capitalise on everyone being down and out and he cockily went to retrieve the title only for Ryder to pop out of no where and shove him off the ladder and win his first Intercontinental Championship. The fan pop was huge and Ryder deserved it even if it only lasted for 24 hours.

Excellent ladder match.

*Rating:* ****+

*WrestleMania 32 - WWE Women's Championship Triple Threat Match*
_Charlotte vs. Becky vs. Sasha_

I was a big fan of the WWE changing the belt, especially with the _"Women's Revolution"_ looking to come into full effect and they needed to do this for the division to be taken seriously. These 3 women deserved to be in this spot and there were huge expectations for this match especially with the countless great matches these 3 had with each other in NxT. The match did start a little sloppy as you could tell there was a lot of pressure on the women to deliver and maybe the occasion got to them for a bit. However, after the first 3-4 minutes, things started to flow a lot better and there was some solid action and nice spots thrown in. Sasha delivers a nice Flip Dive on the outside (good recovery as she went through the ropes otherwise she could have seriously hurt herself), Charlotte executes a nice Moonsault from the top rope to the outside and Becky with a sweet looking Exploder Suplex from the top rope. The match did slow down in sections as each woman tried to hit her very best offence to win only for someone to intervene the count or the submission.

Flair's bump was hilarious and Sasha credit to her, took some really sickening bumps in this match. I enjoyed the false finishes with Charlotte trying to do the Figure 8 but being unable to due to her leg being worked on and out of no where Becky would lock in the Disarmer and then Sasha would come in and lock in the Bank Statement... some really good false finishes where you believe anyone of these women could win (although most thought Sasha would win the title). The finish was well done with Sasha trying to get back into the ring as Charlotte had Becky locked in the Figure 8 only for Flair to restrain Sasha and thus, Becky tapped out. A very well told match, good chemistry between these women and after a shaky start there was a lot of fast-paced, fluid action and some great bumps also.

*Rating:* ***3/4

*WrestleMania 32 - Singles Match (if Shane wins he takes over Raw, if Undertaker wins he doesn't)*
_The Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon_

This match consisted of big spot after big spot and finishing move after finishing move. I think with the time they had and the story they were trying to tell they did this well. It was a little odd seeing Shane kicking out of a Last Ride and a Chokeslam onto the steel steps but there again, this is the same guy that took Kane to the limits! Although I can see why some may think this was a little unrealistic seeing as it's The Undertaker but remember... this is an older Undertaker and one who is still slightly vulnerable after his loss at WrestleMania 30. Shane suckered Undertaker in at times (e.g. DDT onto the chair) and tried everything he could (Coast to Coash, Sharpshooter, Triangle Choke) to keep Undertaker down but it didn't work. The action was decent but some people disliked the fact it was just one big move after the other but I didn't mind this. They weren't going to put on a wrestling clinic so I suppose this is the best way a 50/51 year old Undertaker and a guy who is in his mid 40's and isn't even considered a wrestler could execute the match.

Anyway, the action spills outside the cell as Shane sacrifices his body with a GIGANTIC ELBOW DROP FROM THE TOP OF THE CELL WHICH MISSES AND HE GOES CRASHING THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!!! That was a fascinating spot to watch! Shane somehow is alive and urges Undertaker to bring it, who pats him on the face and delivers the Tombstone Piledriver for the win. Shane deserves props for putting his body on the line and Undertaker looked great here also. This is a love/hate match where I've seen people rate it as low as ** and as high as ****. Did I enjoy the match? Yes. Was it a classic? No. It was what it was... big move after big move and I guess they wanted to make this as memorable as they could with those spots and they surely did. A solid match even if it did seem like a random encounter for WrestleMania.

*Rating:* ***1/4

Great DVD set so far.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

This is actually a really fun idea. I might hunt down these matches on the Network, watch through them again myself and see how I feel about them isolated on a second go around. Especially as, despite how stagnant things may have felt on a weekly basis, some wrestlers have travelled a bloody light year from where they started in the company at the start of 2016 and where they ended up by the end of the year.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So like I said I would I decided to check out the matches included in the “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” through the Network, starting with the Last Man Standing match for the IC title at last year’s Royal Rumble and despite being only a year ago, it’s quite a fascinating spectacle in hindsight. 

While people still ponder just how truly good and or over Dean Ambrose is he undeniably had one of the best 2016s in the company. Carrying the IC Title in and then back out again. Years of in ring regression seemed to disappear in practically an instant as he feuded with Cena and AJ Styles with Ambrose being a central driving force for why SmackDown Live was so hot at the beginning. Plus, as there are so few surprises left in WWE, what happened to Ambrose during Money In The Bank through the Brand Split felt truly special. They gave him an opportunity to become a lynch pin of his Brand and he fucking seized that moment. Yes it doesn’t appear to have been part of their original plans and was more to do with backstage politics it seems but it was still some of the very best storytelling in WWE that year as a whole and that is coming from someone who really wasn’t much of an Ambrose fan at the time. 

Owens, on the other hand, had almost practically the opposite of a year. Going into 2016 fresh off of the back of his monster NXT run and incredible feud with John Cena, Owens was my MVP in the company and I usually found him to be the best part of any show he was involved in. It also looked like an immense year for him on paper with some high profile victories, being a main player in PPVs, often in the marquee matches, and capturing a whole bunch of titles including the Universal Title. The reality though is everything great about Owens was effectively deconstructed over the course of the year until he was a shadow of his former greatness long before the year was over. It is incredible that one of my favourites getting one of the most epic title captures in recent memory was actually the final nail in the coffin for him. Pretty much none of Owens high profile moments in 2016 are worth talking about outside of anything on paper and I now long to see him stripped of the Universal Title, to see his friendship be over with Jericho and to see him go back to doing the things that made him so great. Preferably without endless matches with Ambrose and Zayn, though, thanks. 

Speaking specifically of the match itself, while hardcore matches are so limited in WWE they are almost pointless, if any two can bridge the gap to move beyond the limitations through storytelling/psychology, it is these two. These two guys are just here to hurt each other and even without the build, you can feel that intensity. 

Silly uses of chairs and lack of blood aside, it isn’t even a horrible hardcore match as far as WWE goes. There are some crazy table spots, vicious kendo breakages, a Dirty Deeds onto a chair and that senton through the barricade. If you can’t wrap a steel chair around someones face anymore (at least not directly, you can chuck it apparently) I’ll take peoples bodies being broken through them, it looks surprisingly effective when someone is left in a crumpled heap in the remnants of an imploded chair. 

While Ambrose keeps his title in the end, Owens dominates throughout the match and without resorting to little bitch tactics, this is back when the guy was a legitimate badass and Ambrose really sells the hell he has to put himself through to take Owens out. Ironic really as he looks in much worse shape here. 

Watching the match again, if I was to ever give a modern hardcore match in WWE “MOTY Status” it would probably be that one. They do the very best they can with their limitations and tell a great story. I can’t wait until Owens gets to put on matches like this again. 

I give the match ⭐⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I enjoyed that LMS match between Owens & Ambrose moreso than everyone else in this thread that shit on it, but not as much as you guys. *** 1/2 for me because I thought all of the major spots and bumps were just too predictable, even if they looked good. A common complaint for myself among WWE's modern day hardcore matches so no big deal. They had a nice serious of matches in that span.

Royal Rumble in general last year doesn't really get the credit it deserves imo. Outside of Backlash, it might actually be the best top-to-bottom PPV in all of 2016. Besides Ambrose/Owens being fun and the Royal Rumble being GREAT in my eyes, New Day/Usos was really good and the other two titles matches (Kalisto/ADR and Charlotte/Becky) were solid as well. Everything was watchable and they started & ended on high notes which is always a plus for me.



Pizzamorg said:


> While people still ponder just how truly good and or over Dean Ambrose is he undeniably had one of the best 2016s in the company. Carrying the IC Title in and then back out again. Years of in ring regression seemed to disappear in practically an instant as he feuded with Cena and AJ Styles with Ambrose being a central driving force for why SmackDown Live was so hot at the beginning. Plus, as there are so few surprises left in WWE, what happened to Ambrose during Money In The Bank through the Brand Split felt truly special. They gave him an opportunity to become a lynch pin of his Brand and he fucking seized that moment. Yes it doesn’t appear to have been part of their original plans and was more to do with backstage politics it seems but it was still some of the very best storytelling in WWE that year as a whole and that is coming from someone who really wasn’t much of an Ambrose fan at the time.
> 
> Owens, on the other hand, had almost practically the opposite of a year. Going into 2016 fresh off of the back of his monster NXT run and incredible feud with John Cena, Owens was my MVP in the company and I usually found him to be the best part of any show he was involved in. It also looked like an immense year for him on paper with some high profile victories, being a main player in PPVs, often in the marquee matches, and capturing a whole bunch of titles including the Universal Title. The reality though is everything great about Owens was effectively deconstructed over the course of the year until he was a shadow of his former greatness long before the year was over. It is incredible that one of my favourites getting one of the most epic title captures in recent memory was actually the final nail in the coffin for him. Pretty much none of Owens high profile moments in 2016 are worth talking about outside of anything on paper and I now long to see him stripped of the Universal Title, to see his friendship be over with Jericho and to see him go back to doing the things that made him so great. Preferably without endless matches with Ambrose and Zayn, though, thanks.


Hmmmm. This is an interesting take because I can both agree and disagree with all of this at the same time.  Ambrose to me will always seem lazy at times and while I can see how someone can say he was a top notch guy based on his strong booking through 2016, I don't necessarily know how much of that you can credit to him. To me, his MITB win seemed too late and really didn't feel that special to me at all (should've happened when his program with Rollins was red hot instead of revisited) and they decided to rush into the Shield 3-way to establish Ambrose as a top star quickly by pinning the other 2 going into the brand split. I was in attendance for Battleground so I can't complain too much about the match because I had fun, but I think everyone can agree that it should've happened on a bigger stage. I try to look at match quality above individual accomplishments in terms of saying someone had a great year so it's tough for me to say Ambrose was near the top of the WWE list. His stuff with AJ was indeed phenomenal though. They worked off of each really well.

Regarding Owens, I'm the opposite from you. Owens was a bright spot in 2016 even though his booking has been shitty in recent months. His match with Zayn (coincidentally also happening at Battleground) was one of the most talked about matches of the year and I think everyone was buzzing over his Universal Title win on RAW. Two of the best moments of the year for me even though I wish they would've kept Owens & Zayn away from each other for a long while after that match. He had loads of good shit both on PPV and TV so I can look past some of the poopy booking for that. Plus he's had a long run at the top of RAW so at least when you look back on it he'll be in the history books.

If I were to list who I thought were the MVPs of WWE in 2016, it would probably look something like this:

1. AJ Styles (by a mile)
2. The Miz (shocking for me to say that but man was he great once Maryse came back)

3-5 could be interchangeable but it's probably some combo of Owens, Cesaro, and/or Zayn/Ambrose. Zayn fell into nothingess after the draft so that hurts him. Cesaro was always great in the ring but failed to win the big one so many times until late.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Undeniable that the whole Shield thing could have been better, it all transpired off of the back of Reigns suspension it seems and it caused them to change their plans seemingly near on the fly. That sense of spontaneity really translated into the action and provided genuine surprise to which I really enjoyed, though. Potentially without Reigns suspension none of this good stuff might have ever happened and it would have instead followed the predictable beats we know it could have gone down which really would have changed the shape of the second half of 2016 for the worse, potentially. But of course if they were allowed to follow their worked out narrative to their planned conclusion it may have also elevated this beyond what it was, I guess we'll never know. 

Owens winning the Universal Title and losing to Zayn clean are two of my favourite 2016 moments also but Owens had a LOT of shit around those moments which I really think deserves to be recognised. 

AJ Styles was certainly my MVP of 2016 though, as a whole.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

While not on the “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” list, courtesy of @Corey I stuck around with last year’s Royal Rumble to check out the finish of Del Rio/Kalisto which was very strong and also Charlotte’s title match against Becky and the Rumble itself. 

Speaking of the women’s match first, it was a stark reminder of how much I hated the women’s division in WWE through 2016, at least on the main roster. I take nothing away from the wrestling itself to which was the best we’ve ever seen from WWE’s women but I hate the characters, I hate the usage of the wrestlers and none of the feuds have been well handled. 

Take this match for example, there is so much potential here in Charlotte being a top heel but we know how this plays out. Crappily. There is so much potential for Becky Lynch as a top baby face champion but we already know they’ll go on to blow it. And I know that we should just appreciate the match in isolation but even that is hard. Seeing Becky Lynch in effectively a handicap match while the ref just stands by and watches, it’s just all cheap pops. Charlotte is such a good wrestler for someone so new to the business but the booking has stained her career, I’d love to see her drop the title and get a proper refresh where the booking accentuates her talent, not hinders it. 

I give this match ⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ - gave it an extra star for Sasha Banks at the end. 

Speaking of the Rumble, it was actually pretty great. While I don’t like Triple H coming in and winning it at the end, his showdowns with pretty much everyone at the end there are awesome. This also ties into the fascinating anomaly that is Dean Ambrose in this match. He goes through hell earlier in the night against Owens, Owens doesn’t last long in the Rumble for obvious reasons yet Ambrose on the other hand not only wins his match and retains his title but he remains in the Rumble for a bloody long time and even lasts longer than Reigns himself, being the last man standing against the Haitch, almost winning the whole thing. What was all the one Versus All and down right stupid Vince McMahon plots all for if it has no real bearing on the finish whatsoever? So much convolution in the name of one swerve. 

Outside of all that my MVPs for the Rumble were Owens, Styles and Jericho. Owens dragging himself to and from the ring, showing a level of commitment rarely seen in WWE, was super badass. While his time in the Rumble is brief he gets perhaps the biggest elimination in the lead up to the finish, AJ Styles, and in what fashion too with that great “Welcome to WWE” line. Plus this leads into the entrance of Zayn and his elimination of Owens, which is also awesome. This year I think Zayn is gonna be a main player in the Rumble, he might even be a dark horse to win it, Owens on the other hand… who knows what role he’ll play in the match this time around given he could potentially be losing his title clean to Reigns earlier in the night. 

While Styles’ first Rumble is punctuated by the pop as he enters and the fantastic fashion that he exits, it’s a nice surprise that WWE keeps him in the Rumble as long as he does and lets him kick so much ass. No he doesn’t really get any meaningful eliminations but this marks a better debut than really anyone could have surely hoped for for Styles. Once again I’ll be interested to see what he does in the Rumble this year as his stock in the company has grown exponentially but what will it all mean if he loses his title clean to Cena earlier in the night?

Jericho is an MVP for similar reasons, the dude is in the match for nearly fifty minutes, wrestling his damn heart out in that time. While he doesn’t get any real meaningful eliminations nor does his length of time in the Rumble have any real ramifications within the match or beyond this is a still a great on paper achievement to kick off Jericho’s career revival in 2016. You would have to assume he'd have any even bigger role to play this year and may even be a dark horse to win it like Zayn could be.

I give this ⭐⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah the finish to Charlotte/Becky was shit. I hated all of Ric's involvement at the time and glad he's not around anymore. 

2016 is honestly in my top 5 all time Rumbles matches. I had so much fun with it throughout and marked SO HARD when Triple H tossed Reigns out late in the match. So fucking glad they made the decision to do that so the crowd could get it out of their system. Also gave the match ****.

You may as well watch Usos/New Day since you've watched everything else. :lol It's the 3rd best match on the card.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Carrying on with the “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” list, I checked out Styles vs Jericho from Fastlane. A match which really changed my opinions on things. 

Yeah Styles went on to defy all expectations but the dude spent plenty of time being nothing but a high profile jobber at the start of the year, just like all of us probably expected him to. He is the face of practically everything pro-wrestling related not WWE and with WWE’s backstage politics and ballooned ego, you just know they’d use Styles to send a message. 

Before watching this match, I would have told you that Styles first half of his first year is best left forgotten, where he did nothing but put over WWE guys as they stroked their brand peen but honestly… this match was genuinely great. And while we know how this all ends, isolating just this match is like a sign of things to come with Styles being rather definitively put over by Jericho in a great finish. This is a match between one of the Greats and a man who is one of the best in the world today. Up and down, inside and out, everything about this match is fantastic. Jericho may not be able to go quite like he once could have but he’s still one of the best stars WWE has and Styles is so good he can bridge any gap for Jericho so they can both put on a great show. It is a battle of pride, a battle of egos and it’s settled in an actual wrestling match, a wrestling match which showcases two in ring masters in an imaginative and hard hitting contest.

Once again, I’d be happy to give this match a “MOTY Status”, it is ultimately just one of many FANTASTIC matches from Styles in his first year in WWE which says everything really. This is a match which, when watched again, certainly deserves far more credit than I originally gave it. I give the match ⭐⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Also from the “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” list is a second match from the Fastlane PPV, which is the Triple Threat to decide the Number One Contender for the World Title between Reigns, Ambrose and Brock Lesnar. Man, the video package for this just makes me feel like we were in another universe 11 months ago. 

Overall this was a solid match but a real head scratcher booking wise. Reigns was obviously the most important part of this going in and he got his clean win but he really didn’t do much in the match at all, I felt like even though Ambrose got pinned clean and Lesnar got screwed again, they still came out looking better. I forgot just how bad the transparent nuclear push Reigns was getting was at the start of 2016. Ugh. 

Outside of that stuff though, like I say the match was pretty good, they threw absolutely everything at The Beast to try and keep him down but like a Terminator the dude just keeps coming. He got screwed in the Royal Rumble, meaninglessly getting eliminated by the Wyatt’s after he already eliminated them all (why would he even agree to that?) and this was a bit of returned face, even he still lost. No one suplexes like Brock Lesnar. Say what you want about Lesnar but even after the last few bizarro appearances at PPVs he’s one of the few wrestlers left in WWE with an aura who can make a match into an EVENT. 

Watching this and the Rumble back to back, I have to wonder if his less than part time schedule and weird matches in 2016 are down to health problems, I get that athletes are gonna sweat because they are fit and healthy but the speed in which Lesnar becomes a purple pool of sweat is SERIOUSLY alarming. It doesn’t seem to slow him down but you have to wonder what is going on inside of him during these matches. 

Ambrose meanwhile is a bit of a spare part in the match but he continues to be this fascinating anomaly. A wild card interjecting himself into what might otherwise be a straight match. I read that the whole Shield business later in the year was rushed out because of backstage politics only but watching this all back again, Ambrose is booked really really strong both here and in the Rumble. The company clearly had plans for him. 

I’m giving this one a ⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Only other thing you need to see from Fastlane was actually on the preshow. Del Rio vs. Kalisto 2 Out Of 3 Falls for the US Title. Fantastic matchup. Owens & Ziggler had an IC Title match that I didn't give a shit about because they had already wrestled tons of time on TV and I couldn't stand Ziggler at the time, but maybe you'll like it. 

Going back to AJ though it's actually really easy to forget about some of the great matches he had all year because there were so many of them. Outside of the series with Jericho, early in his debuting days he had a handful of damn good TV matches against Sheamus, Zayn, Del Rio, and Owens before they start booking him as a top guy. The Y2AJ vs. New Day Tag Title match on RAW is a real gem too.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Although not included on the “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” list (but does in fact turn up on their best matches of 2016 list), I decided to check out Dean Ambrose v Triple H at Roadblock. I don’t remember caring much for this match the first time but I figured I may as well now I’ve watched the Rumble and the Fastlane match, they all work as a sort of series.

I ain’t gonna bang on about wider ramifications here again as I’m sure it’s getting boring but taken in isolation, the storytelling is AWESOME. It took SmackDown Live to make me a fan of Dean Ambrose and I still don’t really understand what his gimmick is but this match here is the perfect usage for Ambrose and brings back fonder memories of his early 2016 booking than I remembered. The match is a wonderful blend between the kayfabe and the real, as a deceptively clever wildcard whose motivations we may never know but will always result in chaos faces off against a man far too egotistical and proud to do the right thing and ignore this crazy man with literally the highest of stakes as the main event of 'Mania and the Heavyweight Title hang deliciously in the balance.

Speaking of it as a match, Ambrose may not outwardly seem like a great wrestler at this time in the year, hell I don’t remember him being very good but watching it with hindsight makes you realise the sheer amount of intricacies he puts into his character work. Every single beat and nuance here fits Ambrose’s character, few tell a better in ring story than him. Plus he has an excellent dance partner in Triple H who doesn’t look like someone who has been absent from the ring for 12 months after that crap match with Sting. 

Ambrose is constantly losing around this time, sure, but yet somehow WWE still seem to be so behind him in all of this. I know it doesn’t really make sense but he still always ends up coming out looking really strong, even if on paper his stats look abysmal.A dude who can be beaten but in the process will go into his next match with a whole new ceiling. I mean look here, if I remember correctly Ambrose comes into this match less than 100% as he is feuding with Lesnar in the background yet he comes into this match laser focused and takes it to Triple H. The spot with the leg under the rope is super clunky but Triple H effectively puts Ambrose over right until the very end which I think everyone kinda expected. Triple H could have easily crushed Ambrose here to make Reigns beating him at ‘Mania even bigger but instead Ambrose came out looking the Champ, even within the belt. You can’t even say Triple H is at a disadvantage as he makes it clear he isn’t suffering with an ounce of ring rust. Couldn’t we have had this as the main event for ‘Mania instead? 

More and more, watching these matches in isolation, the more the developments around Money in the Bank, wether part of some master plan or no, make sense for me. 

I give this ⭐⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE United Kingdom Championship Tournament
January 14, 2017*

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Trent Seven vs H.C. Dyer *1/4

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Danny Burch vs Jordan Devlin **

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Saxon Huxley vs Sam Gradwell 3/4*

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Roy Johnson vs Pete Dunne **

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Wolfgang vs Tyson T-Bone *1/2

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
James Drake vs Joseph Conners *

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Dan Moloney vs Mark Andrews *1/2

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, 1st Round
Tucker vs Tyler Bate **1/4

Overall Rating: 3.0


*WWE United Kingdom Championship Tournament
January 15, 2017*

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Quarter Finals
Pete Dunne vs Sam Gradwell *3/4

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Quarter Finals
Mark Andrews vs Joseph Conners **

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Quarter Finals
Trent Seven vs Wolfgang **1/2

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Quarter Finals
Tyler Bate vs Jordan Devlin **

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Semi Finals
Mark Andrews vs Pete Dunne ***

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Semi Finals
Tyler Bate vs Wolfgang **1/4

Neville vs Tommy End *1/2

WWE United Kingdom Title Tournament, Finals
Pete Dunne vs Tyler Bate ***1/2

Overall Rating: 6.0


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Sycho Sid (WWF Survivor Series 1996)*

A brief conversation in the cb regarding SID led me to dig out this match again and give it a watch. Apart from Sid winning the title, the other aspect that I'm sure others remember is how the smarky crowd cheered for Sid and showered HBK with quite a few boos. Shawn was having a stellar year in the ring, with plenty of quality matches. So I'll see how it all comes together.

So Sid comes out first and is already met with............cheers, looking mean as fuck and is fist bumping everyone in sight lol










*“WHO'S THE MAN?” “WHO'S THE MAN?”*










HBK is out next with Jose Lothario and you can already hear the loud 'Sid' chants from the crowd, although he is mobbed by a small section of fans who won't let go, and has to be rescued by security. Match is under way, and Sid hits Shawn in the gut and and big right hook, HBK keeps getting right back up and Sid keeps sending him right back down with big clubs to the head. Shawn attempts a comeback as he baseball slides under Sid and starts smacking him with some punches of his own and a high body press into a pin for the first near-fall of the match.

HBK in control as he puts Sid down on the mat into a headlock. Sid reverses it and tries to put HBK into a head scissors, but Shawn kips up and gives Sid a big slap to the face. Real smart. He gives him another one until Sid says 'fuck this' and kicks HBK in the gut, before taking him down back to the mat. Shawn reverses this, until Sid kips up and gives HBK a taste of his own medicine and slaps him. Then stands there with a 'yeah Shawn, what you gonna do' look and they start to trade back and forth blows to the head.

Sid picks up HBK and holds him high above his head for some time, 










before Shawn bounces back and whips Sid into the ropes. Sid reverses this and tries to put HBK into the POWERBOMB.

Crowd pop big for this tease btw.

But Shawn gets out of it and bails to the outside. Crowd is giving him some stick at this point and he's not exactly liking it. Eventually Sid goes out ans starts chasing him back into the ring, He sends HBK into the turn-buckle, but Shawn comes right back out and takes Sid out via the knee. Shawn then does the smart thing ans gets to work on that knee.

Crowd not liking this and the boos are high. Their are loud chants of “SYCHO SID, SYCHO SID”

Shawn continues to target the leg of Sid. He seems to mouth something like “Fuck it” to the crowd as he puts on the Figure-Four. Sid is screaming from the effects of this hold. He reverses it into his own Figure-Four, until Shawn gets to the ropes. Shawn stays on the knee of Sid with big, jumping stomps off the ropes.

“BOOOOOOOOOOOO” says the crowd.
Shawn tries to reapply the Figure-Four, but Sid kicks him in the arse and sends him shoulder first into the turn-buckle. Sid gets up, but is still feeling the effects of the knee work. He gives Shawn two big kicks to the gut. This is certainly Sid's chance to take over and go to town. Another big kick to Shawn, before the camera gets too close for comfort and Sid has to swat him off










Foreshadowing, perhaps :hmm: He kicks HBK down again with a boot to the face. He continues literally kicking the shit out of Shawn. Sid tries a big running knee, but Shawn moves and Sid just ends up hitting the ropes. Shawn reverses being whipped into the ropes and kicks the bad knee of Sid again and sends him down to the mat. 

“BOOOOOOOOOO” The crowd says again as Shawn picks up Sid's leg and smashes it hard on the mat. Sid ends up getting up and gives Shawn a massive clothesline, sending him over the top rope and onto the outside. He follows him out and drags him down the isle, before landing a big punch, picking him up, and planting him face first onto the guardrail. 

Sid takes this opportunity to fist bump a fan










:lol

This is Sid's pace now and he's in control as he sends Shawn back into the ring. He pins Shawn but only gets a 2 count. He sends Shawn into the ropes and into a big back body drop, before running straight at him with a big boot to the face. He starts clubbing Shawn's back with big hammer fists and another big running boot to the face. This is where HBK always shines when he's up against a bigger guy, in his bumping and selling the ferocity of Sid's offense. Shawn takes ones of his big back flips over the turn-buckle and onto the apron. Sid tries to choke him out, but Shawn sends him throat first onto the top rope. This could be a comeback for the Heartbreak Kid.

Shawn tries a flying cross body onto Sid, but Sid catches him and the crowd go.........WILD, fuck Sid is oooooovvvvvvver. Sid plants Shawn with a big back-breaker and gets another near-fall with a 2 count. He sends Shawn into the corner and HBK takes one hell of a back bump TBH

Sid in full 'kill him' mode now. He sends Shawn into the opposite turn-buckle for another big back bump. He stands HBK up and starts landing some big blows to his head, but HBK won't go down. Shawn attempts a comeback as he flies some punches of his own onto Sid.

“BOOOOOOOOOOO” says the crowd once again.

They trade blows before HBK body slams Sid and tries to deliver a double ax handle, but Sid puts his leg up and smack Shawn plum in the face, thus getting this great visual:



















:lol

He's took some shit on this match, lol. Sid puts Shawn into a 'Million Dollar Dream'. HBK is fading as he desperately tries to grab onto the ropes. HBK gets out of it and starts hammering away at Sid, but Sid stops him and tries to chokeslam him but gets a THUMB IN THE EYE from Shawn, who prepares the setup for 'Sweet Chin Music'. Sid blocks the attempt and ends up giving him the big chokeslam, for which of course the crowd lapped up. Sid is fucking feeling it now and gestures to the crowd, who respond, and signals for the Powerbomb. HBK quickly reverses it into a small package and into a very near-fall. This of course pisses Sid off and he stomps HBK right back down again. He sends Shawn into the ropes and delivers a big power slam for a 2 count. Shawn flies off the ropes and gives Sid a running forearm, knocking Sid back. HBK kips up, to the annoyance of the crowd, but Sid just puts him in his place with a BIG CLOTHESLINE










Crowd likes that as Sid gets another close 2 count. Sid then goes into the corner to prepare to run at Shawn, but is again distracted by a cameraman. He ends up taking the camera off him and nailing Jose with it. Now, Earl Hebner; 

*FOR FUCK SAKE, DO A BETTER JOB AT NOT SEEING THIS, AS YOU FUCKING DID*










:lmao 

Earl does a terrible job of not only giving Sid time to do it, but also pretending like he didn't clearly bloody see it. He even sees Sid drop the damn camera. Although Sid took his sweet time finally hitting Lothario.

HBK takes this opportunity to give Sid 'Sweet Chin Music'. 

THIS IS IT, HE'S GOING TO RETAIN!!! 

Instead of going for the pin as more boos start to ring out from the crowd, he goes to check on the state of Jose (Oh, now you gives a shit, Shawn), as Jose seems to be having a heart attack. Sid gives no fucks, gets back up, and sends HBK right back into the ring. He flings Shawn into the turn-buckle, who stops and tries a cross body, but Sid ducks and he flies straight into the ref (Oh, this bump may improve Earl's eyesight from now on).

Shawn goes back to check on the condition of Jose. Once again, Sid gives ZERO FUCKS as he follows him, grabs the camera again, and wallops Shawn in the back. Crowd are loving this lol. 

*NOBODY IS COMING TO THE AID OF JOSE AS HE'S HAVING A SUSPECTED HEART ATTACK, BTW* :hutz

Sid rolls Shawn back into the ring, by this time Earl is getting back up again. Crowd cheer Sid on as he puts on the POWERBOMB for the 1..............................2.......................................................................3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crowd erupt as we have ourselves a NEW WWF CHAMPION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, now the bell has rung, the stretcher comes out for poor Jose. Shawn is quickly back up too btw to go and check on him.










“I'M THE MAN”

Plenty more fist bumps for Sid after the match too and hugs from the crowd. 

Well, this was another great match from 1996 and yet another one involving HBK No doubt he worked his ass off in a lot of matches that year and in this one too. He bumped all over the place for Sid, who wasn't too shabby himself TBH. This may well be his best overall performance. No real botches, did all the power shit, sold quite well when he had to, too. A really good/great match. The crowd were surreal too, you can't watch this match and not mention them. They were pretty much pro Sid from as soon as the bell rang, and showered HBK with boos pretty much every time he had the chance of some sustained offense. It certainly added another layer to the match.

Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed my gibberish.​


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Pizzamorg said:


> Yeah Styles went on to defy all expectations but the dude spent plenty of time being nothing but a high profile jobber at the start of the year, just like all of us probably expected him to. He is the face of practically everything pro-wrestling related not WWE and with WWE’s backstage politics and ballooned ego, you just know they’d use Styles to send a message.


Well, if you're to believe reports, Vince was going to use Styles as a mid-card guy but it was Styles' work with Reigns that completely changed Vince's mind and made him push him straight to the top and for good reason. The series with Reigns was great.

Quite possibly the best first year of a superstar in WWE imo. High profile wins, WWE Title, consistent MOTYCs.


On another note, pretty excited for the Royal Rumble next weekend. Cena/Styles should be great, but the unpredictability of the Rumble is also making it really fun. The entire roster (minus Balor *winkwink*) is healthy for the first time in a LONG time at this time of the year, the Rumble will have very few lull periods due to that, and there's no clear favourite to win.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Carrying on with “WWE Best PPV Matches of 2016” list, they cite three matches from last year’s Wrestlemania but I decided to change that a bit. I’m skipping the Hell in a Cell as it was garbage the first time and I don’t want to live that train wreck twice and swapping it out for the Main Event instead given I’d watched the Rumble, Fast Lane and Roadblock with this capping off the series… kinda. 

Kicking off with the Ladder Match for the IC Title, it’s kinda funny that it was a top prize by the end of the year but here we have effectively a bunch of spare parts in the mid card all pushed into one match seemingly to give them something to do. While I do think the Money in The Bank Ladder Match from later in the year is actually the better match, this one is still better than it could have been. We know kayfabe and out the importance of the Wrestlemania stage to everyone who wrestles and so everyone is given at least one big moment to shine with within the inherent, heavy, limitations trying to do something hardcore in WWE, at least. I love badass bastard Kevin Owens, why did you take him away with us and replace him with that little bitch we got at the end of the year? 

This might have been Sami Zayn’s only title match all year which is kinda sad, Zayn deserves so much more than what WWE is giving him. How could they watch his display here and not see his potential as a main eventer? Yeah him and Owens put on great matches but having Zayn go in circles with him for months before falling off the map only to pop up on odd occasions for the rest of the year is just so wrong. I’d love for him to get a proper push and title run this year, hell I’d even take him being the CW Champion if it meant some proper momentum for the guy. 

Most importantly though is that finish, which I love, giving Zack Ryder the win on what I think his Wrestlemania debut. In isolation this is probably the best part of last year’s ‘Mania and one of the best moments of the entire year. Maybe THE moment of the year. 

It’s just a shame I know they’ll go on to fuck it up. Was there anything ever released, a rumour, anything, to explain why they did what they did after Ryder won the title? I know that this is an incredible moment which they can never take from him but that is all it ever was… a moment, it’s just so pointless. Couldn’t they at least have him hold it until the next PPV or something, I don’t get this at all. 

I give this match ⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ overall but I give the finish the full ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. That finish should be what ‘Mania is all about. 

Next up is the Women’s Triple Threat for the new Women’s Title. There is a lot wrong with this match. Sasha Banks’ entrance. Sasha Banks constantly getting dunked out of the ring. Micheal Cole muddling the women’s names up constantly. Ric Flair. Shenanigans. Becky tapping out. Charlotte retaining. The hair extensions (I mean isn’t that like…. dangerous?). But if Wrestlemania is but a collection of moments, this one more than any other, surely cannot be devalued. WWE, like with most things, has been notoriously behind the curve when it comes to Women’s wrestling and no matter what their hashtags say, they still have a LONG way to go still but regardless, this match here is a huge step in the right direction. Yes we saw immense regression after this point but as a “Wrestlemania Moment” in isolation this is one of the highlights of Women’s wrestling in general in 2016. Three ladies all making their Wrestlemania debuts who can outwork 90% of the active roster male or female, channelling their heroes and bringing the big fight as they battle for a brand new title which in this moment in isolation is designed as a bridge for the gap between the genders in WWE. The crowd are hot, the stage is grand and these three women out there forging a legacy and wrestling their damn hearts out. This. Is. Awesome. 

Once again, I’m left torn as to whether to rate this as a moment or a match so I decided to meet myself in the middle and give this a ⭐⭐⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. 

Then finally, the Main Event. I want to say firstly, I actually don’t dislike this match, I don’t love it either, but as a match I think it’s perfectly solid. That video package “The Road” or whatever it’s called before the match, no one does that shit better than WWE and those entrances WRESTLEMANIA BABY! It’s one of those matches which blurs the line between the kayfabe and the real for great effect. But I am fully aware of how flawed it is, too. The commentary is so embarrassing in it’s forced Roman wanking and the crowd simply aren’t buy this at all and it really hurts the action in the ring itself, just look at Triple H’s face. But it isn’t the fans fault, this isn’t NJPW, why did they think such a slow, lengthy, match would feel like satisfying pay off after months of convoluted overbooking and swerves as they literally throw everything into the damn mix to make Reigns look strong and get him over? I mean, was this really it? I mean if it is, then what was this all for? What an anti-climax. Within the context of its wider story and as the main event of the biggest Mania event ever, it doesn’t deserve a single star at all. Overall though, I’ll give it ⭐⭐/⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brock said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs Sycho Sid (WWF Survivor Series 1996)*
> 
> A brief conversation in the cb regarding SID led me to dig out this match again and give it a watch. Apart from Sid winning the title, the other aspect that I'm sure others remember is how the smarky crowd cheered for Sid and showered HBK with quite a few boos. Shawn was having a stellar year in the ring, with plenty of quality matches. So I'll see how it all comes together.
> 
> ...


Awesome write-up, bro. I've never seen the match, but I'll definitely check it out now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fucking fantastic sprint there from Rollins & Zayn. Excellent sense of urgency and high octane offense. When the hell was the last time we saw a pedigree on the apron!? Loved the finish too, but a shame we don't get to see Rollins in the rumble anymore. *** 3/4


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Yeah ***3/4 sounds just right.

Hopefully we get a main event level match between those 2 could be very special.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God damn that RAW ending. :done

SO FUCKING HYPED for this Sunday. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

***3/4 for Rollins/Zayn as well.

Fucking LOVED the ending. Helps so much that only Goldberg was advertised and Lesnar and Taker were surprises.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. Sasha Banks leggings are the MVP. 

I really just don’t give a fuck really about anything happening on Raw right now. Everything on Raw feels slapped together and directionless. Hell a lot of WWE in general feels like that. It’s a concern as as they say, we’re entering Wrestlemania Season and effectively entering the Rumble with no overarching story for maybe the first time ever. 

The Zayn/Rollins match had some good moments. It was really clunky and overlong so it took a lot of the bite out of it but they are two of Raw’s best workers so the results are as expected. That finish too, with Zayn’s face brutally driven into the ring apron then that music hits… SAMI ZAYN IS IN THE RUMBLE! …but Rollins is out… what the hell? 

Talking about “the hell”, the hell was the point of any of that stuff with Reigns and Jericho? Haven’t we seen them wrestle enough? Was it all worth it for Owens in the shark cage? And their PPV match is no DQ now, so what, Rollins can interrupt the match to give him something to do? If not, why? Did they see them practicing the match and think it was so bad they’d need some chairs on the back for spice? 

The hell was that Goldberg segment about, cracking his head open and stumbling around that awful promo. At least we got Lesnar and Undertaker in the retirement home showdown at at least.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> Everything on Raw feels slapped together and directionless. Hell a lot of WWE in general feels like that. It’s a concern as as they say, we’re entering Wrestlemania Season and effectively entering the Rumble with no overarching story for maybe the first time ever.


I disagree with this because I think they've done a great job at both foreshadowing certain matchups and keeping things unpredictable at the same time. You wouldn't want things to be overly obvious this early in the process would you? HHH/Rollins is the only thing that I can say is set in stone for Mania and I'm happy about that. We could wind up with Reigns/Godlberg, Lesnar/Reigns, Reigns/Lesnar/Goldberg, Taker/Anyone, Reigns/Strowman, Owens/Jericho, etc etc. They've done an excellent job of building the Rumble imo.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sasha Banks' leggings were *********** last night.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Corey said:


> I disagree with this because I think they've done a great job at both foreshadowing certain matchups and keeping things unpredictable at the same time. You wouldn't want things to be overly obvious this early in the process would you? HHH/Rollins is the only thing that I can say is set in stone for Mania and I'm happy about that. We could wind up with Reigns/Godlberg, Lesnar/Reigns, Reigns/Lesnar/Goldberg, Taker/Anyone, Reigns/Strowman, Owens/Jericho, etc etc. They've done an excellent job of building the Rumble imo.


Is this early? We're going into the Rumble with no story??


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Giving Rollins-Zayn *** 1/2, really good match with a good pace. I'm not a fan of the finish however, knocked it down a bit for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> Is this early? We're going into the Rumble with no story??


We've got Goldberg in his first Rumble in 13 years in the middle of a hot program with Lesnar. Taker's in his first rumble since '09 and could be in the title picture for the first time in what feels like forever. We've got the story of 'what would happen' if Jericho won and had to face his best friend Owens. Orton has gained Wyatt's trust more than ever after what happened tonight, so how they work together (or if they will) in the match will be something to look for. You've got Strowman who hasn't been pinned or submitted and we're gonna see how dominant he can be. Plus you've got the underdog story of Zayn who just had to earn his spot in the match while everyone else basically entered themselves. All of that on top of the surprise entrants they throw at us every year.

There's stories everywhere! I don't want to be able to predict the main event of Wrestlemania in the middle of January. Keep me guessin.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Corey said:


> We've got Goldberg in his first Rumble in 13 years in the middle of a hot program with Lesnar. Taker's in his first rumble since '09 and could be in the title picture for the first time in what feels like forever. We've got the story of 'what would happen' if Jericho won and had to face his best friend Owens. Orton has gained Wyatt's trust more than ever after what happened tonight, so how they work together (or if they will) in the match will be something to look for. You've got Strowman who hasn't been pinned or submitted and we're gonna see how dominant he can be. Plus you've got the underdog story of Zayn who just had to earn his spot in the match while everyone else basically entered themselves. All of that on top of the surprise entrants they throw at us every year.
> 
> There's stories everywhere! I don't want to be able to predict the main event of Wrestlemania in the middle of January. Keep me guessin.



All of this is true but these are all individual character arcs, there is no force driving them as a unit or tying any of this together. While we don't need to know the full 'Mania card now, it'd be nice to know where this road to Wrestlemania we're getting on is actually going. Right now they seem to just have a bunch of half cooked individual parts with the intention of just bunging them all together to see what they get. It could work but it doesn't often.

Also, I honestly don't have a lot to say about this week’s SmackDown mostly because it was a pretty solid show. Well at least for the men, as much I love the likes of Alexa Bliss and Becky Lynch, none of them are getting the chance to really shine properly and the return of Mickie James feels pretty weak when you compare it to the kind of people Raw is getting. 

I will say that I adored that showdown between Cena and Styles. While Cena can never truly be forgiven for all the shit over the last fifteen or so years, this modern Cena is so damn good. No one is better on the mic than Big Match John and once again, putting in time in a program with Styles suddenly warms me to a talent I never cared about. These two have such great in ring chemistry, such intensity in their feud and while you may feel a little sour at the pro WWE message of it all, I love the stuff that blurs the line between kayfabe and the real. I’d say we’ve seen them wrestle enough but these guys know how to keep the fire going. Whatever happens I hope Orton gets to run a program with Styles as I think that’d be epic and then get a run at the title too, I just want this New Wyatt car crash to be over. 

I also think that moment showed a much better balance of the card, also. If this was Raw, Styles and Cena would have wrestled about 9000 matches by now with probably either a bunch of meaningless title swaps or shitty screw finishes. Instead they hype up their PPV match to make it feel like a big, special, match but don’t give it all away on free TV and then put the IC Title in the Main Event because it’s just as valuable and hell, we’ll put it into a Lumberjack Match. I am concerned though that Baron Corbin’s display here means he is DOOMED in the Rumble.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really good match between Neville & Cedric on 205 Live last night. Possibly the best one since the show debuted. Only problem was Dar's interference in the end which felt completely unnecessary. *** 1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm watching some end years WCW.



Spoiler: .



Syxx v. DDP (Nitro 7/28/97)
I fucking loathe the Bronco buster. There’s something just so unbelievably annoying about it, and it’s not at all exclusive to who’s doing it. I hate every single Bronco buster ever done by anybody. Terrible move, eat cancer Bronco buster. That said this was a fun time. DDP’s a pretty damn good shine with really good looking offense (killer elbow in particular), and he has really fun ways of doing the heel embarrassment thing. Waltman pulled Page’s hair once then got into his lame ass karate stance, only to run away to get a torso-through-rope break, where Page chased him down and beat him down. I think Page kneed Waltman in the arse after that? He did something. Camera was in Waltman’s face and it looked like he was getting a beetle out of trousers after a second. Pretty static comeback thanks to some boring looking punch/block stuff, but DDP’s “I’m getting $8.5 million per match b/c WCW don’t how to business” energy is never not a fun watch. Enjoyable shit.

Scott Hall v. Chris Jericho (Nitro 12/15/97)
Hall takes a survey asking if the crowd is there to see WCW or nWo and the heat on him is pretty awesome. He acts as if they’re on the nWo’s side and that makes it even better. This was Jericho pre-personality so he just kind of comes out smiling to the crowd and camera like someone had a gun to his head backstage because he’s dying inside from being around all these abusive dickheads in the locker room. I swear there’s one bit where he looks at the camera asking anybody with telepathy to get him out of there, then turns away like “my job doesn’t suck at all!” Match was maybe two minutes but it had some really solid stuff. Hall gives Jericho a bit of time to do his thing before mocking the Giant with a chokeslam hat Jericho sold really well. His air time/slam seemed just right for it. Hall mocks the Giant again but instead looks like he’s imitating a zombie trying to catch its balance. Jericho also sells the razor’s edge really well. He looked to plant himself back-flat to know break his neck on the stupid move, but used his momentum and shoulders to still manage to convincingly roll onto his stomach. 

Microshit Word is correcting nWo to ‘now’ everytime I type it and it’s making me livid. And it STILL DOES IT AFTER I ADDED LOWER CASE N CAPTIAL W LOWER CASE O TO ITS DICTIONARY.

Sid Vicious v. Scott Hall (Nitro 2/7/00)
Sid is one of the creepiest looking human being I will ever see in my life. Like I actually find him much creepier than when Kevin Nash wore that Halloween mask to sort of caricaturize what Sid’s face looks like. The microwave instant noodle hair does not help. Oh man, brilliant start to the match. Sid hypes the crowd up to do the corner ten punch and has the most laughably unreal punches you could imagine. I can only describe it as he’s doing one arm on a pec-deck station but someone keeps yanking his arm back as a practical joke. He then gets a chokeslam – his finish – and goes for no pin and instead pulls Hall by the hair, so Hall just…gets up. They do a bizarre ref bump like two minutes into the match, where Sid’s head tumbles the ref over on a fallaway slam like an inadvertent flying headbutt, just so Jeff Jarrett can come out and help Hall toss Sid around. This is a world title match by the way. That’s actually important because just as Jarrett’s about to leave, Hall hits the razor’s edge to pin Sid and Jarrett gets back in the ring to fucking STOP HIM BECAUSE HE SAYS IT’S HIS BELT. HE HELPED HIM THOUGH. Holy christ fucking shit what is any of this?

Glacier v. Mortis (WorldWide 12/13/97)
Nooooooooooo Tony Schiavone said Glacier and The Cat were having trouble. In my mind they’re still teaming 20 years later having awesome untaped matches on the indies, superkicking chairs into people’s faces. Never break up, guys. Anyway this match basically left nothing noteworthy behind at all.

Lance Storm v. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 8/2/00)
I googled ‘lance storm forrest gump’ and apparently Jericho called him that once and someone needs to find that. Storm’s gimmick here is that he’s super Canadian and it’s fucking awesome. He says WCW is now World Canadian Wrestling, and the cruiserweight championship should be referred to as the 100 kilograms and under championship. Also he’s complaining about anti-Canadian bias and the company holding him down despite only being with it for two months and already holding three titles at one time. Someone steal this material. The Cat comes out and says Storm will defend every title he has tonight in three different matches. Against three different people, duh which I shouldn’t have to say but this is 2000 WCW so I do. Match itself was basically nothing. Juvi got way too much time on top and then he spent some time recovering from I’m pretty sure nothing. Stevie Ray on commentary says Juvi is taking time to heal from ‘that move Storm just gave him’ and I swear there was no fucking move. Juvi looked all right. Might’ve been having excellent matches opposite Tajiri if he was in ECW that year instead. Storm sells really strangely, especially chops. Throws his arm back really far on everything. His own stomps are unusual as well. He kind of throws his other leg up for a split second before letting the stomping leg actually come down so he does this half a second of crab walk or something. 

PG-13 v. Rick Steiner/Mike Rotunda (Thunder 12/23/99)
PG-13 a few years back were right atop my “watch more” list. One day. Rotunda and Steiner are wrestling as The Varsity Club which I didn’t know came back this late. Probably a 90 second match but PG-13 do some fun thing where they keep tagging Rotunda on the back and running away just to piss him off before getting caught. Steiner throws some really good clubs and PG-13 put on a fun little bumping show too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So here's all 22 confirmed entrants for the Rumble. Of those 22, imo about 7 of them have a legit shot at winning (Strowman, Zayn, Orton, Wyatt, Lesnar, Goldberg, Taker) with the last 3 of those obviously being the focal point.










So that leaves us with 8 open spots for surprise entrants or _maybe_ some guys on the roster who didn't announce their entry? Idk. Never know if the losers of the two titles matches on the night could wind up with a spot too. Here's who I think could take up those last 8 and I bolded the ones who I think could win the whole thing:

*Kurt Angle
Finn Balor
Samoa Joe*
Tye Dillinger (At number 10!)
Random legend surprise (Jake The Snake?)
James Ellsworth
Kane
Erick Rowan? Is he healthy?
Jobbers/Mid carders if none of the above (Dallas, Axel, Swagger, Crews, Kalisto, etc.)

That makes a legit 10 people who I think can win this year. I cannot remember the last time I could've said that (it's obviously been years). I am SO looking forward to this Sunday. :mark:


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

After Raw on Monday, if it was a deliberate moment anyway, the idea of Undertaker and Goldberg forming an unspoken, uneasy, alliance and just eliminating everyone could be absolutely epic.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs Sycho Sid (WWF Survivor Series 1996)*
> 
> A brief conversation in the cb regarding SID led me to dig out this match again and give it a watch. Apart from Sid winning the title, the other aspect that I'm sure others remember is how the smarky crowd cheered for Sid and showered HBK with quite a few boos. Shawn was having a stellar year in the ring, with plenty of quality matches. So I'll see how it all comes together.
> 
> ...


I FUCKING LOVE this match, and SID. He was so over, was an incredible atmosphere. Good write-up, makes me want to go watch it all again.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I have watched a couple more matches off my Best Pay-Per-Views of 2016 DVD set, this time from disc 2. I'm a little tired as I write this as I haven't had much sleep so I hope I do my review on the next two matches enough justice and that it makes sense why I came to the conclusion on my ratings.

*Payback - Singles Match*
_Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn_

I enjoyed the video packaged they showed as Lita described how these two were best friends on the road when on the indie circuit and credit to WWE they did a good job of describing why Owens turned on his best friend and resented him due to not only Zayn being signed by the WWE first but also due to the fact that on the night Owens debuted on NXT, Zayn outshone him and won his first NXT Championship. That was the night Owens stabbed his best friend in the back and their long, heated and extensive rivalry began. The crowd were pumped up for this one especially the opening exchange where both men just laid into each other with rapid punches to show how much they now hated and despised one another.

There was some great action in this one, Owens dominated the opening few minutes and displayed a lot of his cocky, egotistical mannerisms to the crowd, which was well done. Loved the part where Owens just laid Zayn's arm across the steel steps and proceeded to step on his hand and taunt the crowd. Owens is so brilliant at portraying the badass jerk and Zayn as I said previously in my NXT Blu-Ray review, he does the underdog character that never gives up so well.

The match starts to pick up with a lot of back-and-forth exchanges and some nice moves, I also have to laugh at the fact Michael Cole completely screws up and calls a Sit-Out Scoop Slam a Blue Thunder Bomb, only for Zayn to hit the Blue Thunder Bomb 30-40 seconds later and Cole then says _"He hit a Blue Thunder Bomb... he hit a traditional Blue Thunder Bomb"_. Cole... that was bad! Owens also hits a sick looking Pumphandle Neckbreaker, Frog Splash and two Cannonballs into the corner to try and ware Zayn down. The intensity really starts to pick up with both men going for their signature moves but reversing out of it, one example being Owens going for the Pop-up Powerbomb but Zayn counters into a Dropkick. The action then spills to the outside where Owens grabs Zayn by the ear and starts to yell at him. Both men are jockeying for position, trying to hit a big move on the apron and as Owens tries to Powerbomb Zayn whilst both are stood on the apron, Zayn counters and Owens is Back Body Dropped onto the apron, that was a cool bump!

Zayn hits the Torpedo DDT and then sees his opportunity as he rolls Owens back into the ring and goes for the Helluva Kick but Owens hits a vicious looking Superkick and then whips Zayn into the ropes and the groggy Zayn is a victim of the Pop-up Powerbomb and the 3 count. It was awesome how Owens just collapsed on Zayn as it highlighted how spent they were after hitting each other with some of their best offence. This was an awesome match, my only gripe is I wish it went 5 more minutes and maybe featured a couple of false finishes as my rating would have been even higher (I'm a sucker for false finishes) but I guess it was a fresh way to finish the match... one finisher and you're done! So I guess I can compliment them on that but with this being an all out war between two ex-best friends I think the match warranted a couple of false finishes to show that even if you hit me with your best move, I'm still kicking out and coming at you! Still, the match was great with full of action, heat, great storytelling with Owens being the jerk throughout and thinking he's inferior to Zayn and the latter always fighting back and nearly clinching the win if he hit his finisher a second or two earlier.

*Rating:* ****

*Extreme Rules - WWE World Heavyweight Championship Extreme Rules Match*
_Roman Reigns (c) vs. AJ Styles_

Wow, what a match! This was a blast from start to finish and I saw afterwards it was timed at 22 minutes but to me it felt a lot longer, around the 30+ minute mark. This match captivated me throughout and these men just had awesome chemistry with each other. People are calling this Reigns best singles match of 2016 and I have to concur at the moment (haven't seen any of his other singles matches to be honest). Both men had a great match at Payback but people say this is the superior match. I loved it! Freaking loved it! I'd say this is my favourite match on the DVD set so far and I've probably rated it higher than others but I'll try and back up why I've come to my rating afterwards. Maybe it's because I haven't watched much wrestling in ages and this really surprised me at how good it was, I don't know. Still, what a match!

Anyway, the fans are completely behind Styles with probably 20% of the crowd, mostly women and children are behind Reigns. I'll be honest, I like Reigns. He has the look, he's a good in-ring worker, he sells the hell out of moves (see Brock Lesnar) and he always seems to deliver in the big matches (except the match at WrestleMania 32 against HHH but I haven't seen that match so I can't really give my views on it but I've read others say it's bad, drags on, etc.). That is why I like him, however, I can now see why the crowd have turned on him. I didn't know before because like I've expressed countless times I haven't watched WWE properly in years, I've seen some matches here and there and I still get the DVD/Blu-Ray sets that intrigue me but I never kept up with the story on the fans turning on Reigns. However, from some mini-clips and what others have written I can see the fans don't like Reigns not only because of his poor promos (mainly down to bad WWE writing as if it came from the WWE 2k17 game), not only due to pushing him to the moon when others felt he didn't warrant said push but also because he has no character.

I've read some stupid comments saying he's a poor in-ring performer but I don't see that personally, not from the matches I've seen him in. Maybe they've seen more of him to come to that conclusion but I think a lot are just anti-Reigns and they spout it as if it's the truth. Yes, he may have been pushed too soon or maybe pushed in the wrong way with no character development but that doesn't mean he's a poor in-ring performer. I do laugh also at the _"You can't wrestle_" chants when Reigns isn't a bad worker and there's been a lot worse. Still, that's just my opinion. The WWE need to give him an identity, he was a badass powerhouse in The Shield and then they tried to get him to talk with corny, cheesy promos and push him to the top whilst delivering the awful promos and suddenly, the fans started to get sick of him. So I can sort of understand why the crowd dislike him now... just turn him full-fledged heel and let him run with it. He doesn't have the charisma of The Rock when they turned him heel and then the fans started to love him. However, if you put him as this badass heel much like Lesnar, the fans may start to get back into him. 

Now, apologies for what seems to be my take on the whole Reigns situation, I just wanted to explain all that as it ties in with this match. Reigns was supposed to be the babyface in this match but a month into his feud with Styles they made Reigns a tweener character with the whole _"I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy, I'm the guy"_ catchphrase. This sort of worked as the fans hated him but he still came across like a cocky badass. Why they never stuck with this I never know as he immediately reverted back to the cheesy babyface after his programme with Styles ended. Anyway, Reigns aligned himself with his family, The Usos (who the crowd were starting to turn on just because they associated themselves with Reigns) and Styles had his friends from The Bullet Club to back him up. I like the fact Styles said that he couldn't stop The Bullet Club from interfering but if they did, he would capitalise on it for the sake of winning the prestigious WWE World Heavyweight Championship. Show your true intentions and it adds to the build-up of the match and it suggests something big might happen (eventually Styles turns heel a few days later). The Usos would be there also to keep the most important title in the WWE in their family.

Finally, after all the build up, onto the match and boy, what a match it was! The match starts with both men trying to get the upper hand and out of no where it just breaks into this amazing brawl on the outside and in the crowd. It's so back-and-forth but so well executed. Reigns throws Styles around like a rag doll, including a spot where he launches Styles onto a glass table display. Styles though keeps coming back with kicks and high-octane offence that stuns Reigns. I really love the dynamic of the Powerhouse vs. the High Flyer! Styles hits a beautiful Flying Forearm to Reigns as the action spills back to ringside. Seriously, the brawl is such a highlight in this match, some great intensity with both men trying everything they can to finish the match. They tease doing an announce table spot but delay it for a while, which I like as you know it's going to inevitably happen but the wait is still well done.

Each man hits a big move only for the other to counter with another big move of their own, it's like watching a tennis match and these two make it work so well in this match. The match just gets better and better as it goes on. Seriously, I adore this match but I think I've emphasised that enough. Eventually Styles teases the Styles Clash on the announce table after Reigns tries to Powerbomb Styles through the table (again, I really dig the whole back-and-forth encounter as you don't know at this point whose going to come out on top), but Reigns throws Styles into the barricade. Styles though gets a second wind and jumps onto the barricade and charges at Reigns who hits a HUGE BACK BODY DROP TO STYLES WHO GOES CRASHING THROUGH THE OTHER ANNOUNCE TABLE!!! Crazy, wicked bump job by Styles there and the fans are ecstatic!

The action is back in the ring and Reigns hits a gorgeous Razor's Edge into a lifting Sit-out Powerbomb. They show on the highlights how high Reigns tossed Styles in the air and it's truly a spectacular visual! That gets a near 3 count and again, Styles keeps coming back. Reigns goes for a Superman Punch but Styles hits a cool looking chop block that Reigns sells the hell out of! Now Styles Snap Suplexes Reigns into the corner! Ouch! The action spills to the outside and Styles goes for a big diving move but Reigns catches him and just swings and smashes Styles face into the electronic display (apron) and then swings him violently face first into a broken part of the table near the barricade and then finishes it off by lifting Styles up and LAUNCHING STYLES INTO ANOTHER ANNOUNCE TABLE WITH A POWERBOMB AND STYLES BOUNCES OFF THE TABLE IN A SICK BUMP AND THE TABLE COLLAPSES!. This is fucking awesome!!! The action is non-stop and both men are just going for it, no holds barred!

I have to say, the sell job from both men is fantastic. They're delivering some huge moves, big bumps and there's a lot of crazy action but these men still sell the offence and look absolutely shattered, especially in the final 5 minutes of the match. Styles sells the back but works through the pain and Reigns looks dead every time Styles hits a big aerial move or a malicious kick to his skull. On with the match, Reigns seizes the opportunity and goes for the Spear but instead Reigns goes crashing through the barricade as Styles moves at the last second! BRILLIANT! Back in the ring again and Styles goes for the Phenomenal Forearm but Reigns counters with a Superman Punch whilst Styles is on the top of the ropes and Styles groggily falls back and lands on the apron and then bounces off and hits the padded floor in another sick bump! Reigns gingerly steps out of the ring and finally nails Styles with the Spear on the outside! 

This all leads to The Bullet Club coming out and attacking Reigns as it looks like the latter was about to be crowned the winner. They hit their finisher on Reigns and drag Styles lifeless body onto Reigns but he kicks out! Now The Usos are out and attack Gallows and Anderson and then turn their attention to Styles hitting synchronised Superkicks and a top rope Splash. They put Reigns on top of Styles but he now kicks out! Now The Bullet Club are after The Usos but Reigns intervenes with Superman Punches! He sees Styles is down and hurt and goes for it... he charges at full velocity for the Spear but Styles hits a kick and nails the Styles Clash! 1... 2... no, Reigns kicks out! Styles now knows he has to hit one big move here and gets the chair and goes for the Styles Clash. Reigns Back Body Drops Styles whose leg lands on the chair. Reigns is collapsed in the corner but somehow gets up and goes for the Superman Punch but Styles hits a nice Enziguri and sets up and hits the Styles Clash on the chair! This surely has to be it but one of The Usos grabs Styles leg who kicks him away and goes for the slightly delayed pin, referee accentuates the count but Reigns kicks out! If Styles wasn't pulled back he may have won the title as it gave Reigns a second or two extra to kick out!

Styles is livid and I love the emotion he portrays here, he should have won but feels screwed by The Usos so he goes to town with the chair, battering both Reigns and The Usos with sick steel chair shots to their spines, over and over! Styles senses the end is near after he's eliminated both The Usos and Reigns is sprawled on the mat motionless. He takes off his elbow pad and stands on the apron to collect himself. He signals for it and goes for the Phenomenal Forearm but in midair Reigns CATCHES HIM WITH AN ALMIGHTY SPEAR! FASCINATING VISUAL! 1... 2...3... it's over and what an incredible match it was!

The match was chaotic from the get-go, the match featured some really amazing action, a great brawl, a tonne of big moves and false finishes. A lot of sick bumps and the weapons and environment around the ringside area was utilized well. It was the big powerful moveset from Reigns against the stiff kicks and high flying offence of the athletic and quicker Styles. This match got my adrenaline going! This match just didn't skip a beat, it was so back-and-forth, both men came out looking a million bucks! Neither would give up, all to get their hands on the coveted title and I liked the intervention of both Styles and Reigns allies to even things out and the fact both men whether it be willingly or unwillingly used their help to try and win the match. Just a full out war between two men who have fantastic chemistry with one another! Enthralling!

Fans also went wild for the surprise return of Rollins in the aftermath who delivered a Pedigree to Reigns to an outstanding pop!

Excellent, classic match!

*Rating:* ****3/4

I know I probably have it higher than others but man, this match was a treat for the 22 minutes it was on for!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Corey I think you're getting WAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too overexcited for the Rumble. I tend to think you and everybody else get overexcited for anything WWE cause it's not worth being excited for WWE today (excluding NXT.... many months ago) .

But especially so in the Rumble's case. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't look stacked or anything, the announced roster is pretty good and all. But not only do I not see the amount of stories you do - which may have to do w/me not actually watching ANYTHING MR in months besides catching up to some of Talking Smack, although I am aware of the stories (I know about Zayn/Strowman, I know about Miz/Ambrose, I know about the Wyatts, and I know about Taker/Goldberg/Lesnar, and that's about it... that's not A LOT) -, but I also think it's nowhere near that unpredictable. It's between Bálor, Taker, and a small chance for Strowman. And between those three, Taker is the likeliest, since Bálor already has the title shot guaranteed due to the relinquish via injury and isn't even guaranteed to be there at all. Not to mention, I do NOT want any of those three to win anyway (Bálor is a good worker but he's Goddamn boring and overpushed, Strowman isn't that good of a monster heel either from the little I've seen from him, and yeah, I'm not rooting for Taker for once, he hasn't done anything good in years apart from the Wyatt/Lesnar matches in 2015, and he doesn't need another Rumble win anyway over someone else who'd do more w/it, so SUCK MY BALLS) 

So the Rumble feels like it's going to be disappointing, especially w/WWE booking which is bound to disappoint. They've fucked the unfuckable, they can do it. And the rest of the card, ehh.... AJ/Cena is the only other match I'm checking out, out of morbid curiosity to see if they can redeem their DEBACLE at SummerSlam (that match sucked imo). Owens/Reigns I don't care, Charlotte/Bayley I would care if Charlotte wouldn't inevitably win and I don't care about Charlotte anymore, the pre-show isn't worth my time, and Rich Swann is fucking terrible and I refuse to watch anything else w/him.

So yeah. My rant on the Royal Rumble card. Feels like it's gonna be last year's SummerSlam again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> @Corey I think you're getting WAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too overexcited for the Rumble. I tend to think you and everybody else get overexcited for anything WWE cause it's not worth being excited for WWE today (excluding NXT.... many months ago) .


Well of course you're not gonna look forward to anything with this type of attitude. :lol

I'm not gonna go into much detail cause I don't think you care, but yeah I'm definitely excited and gonna stay excited.  I've enjoyed all the PPVs outside of maybe one since the brand split (Roadblock was meh but still had a great Ironman match and if Summerslam counts then yeah that sucked) so I've got no reason to think they're gonna shit the bed. I loved last year's Rumble too so that helps. I'm gonna mark if Joe debuts or if Angle returns, not gonna lie. Don't care about Balor too much. Personally, I'll be pulling for Taker or Zayn. We've even got talk of Mysterio returning! So much buzz around the match. It should be a fun and entertaining match if just for the mystery alone.

BTW I thought Styles/Cena from Summerslam sucked too. Still excited for this encounter though cause it's pretty much the biggest title match SD can put together right now outside of maybe Styles/Orton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Well of course you're not gonna look forward to anything with this type of attitude. :lol
> 
> I'm not gonna go into much detail cause I don't think you care, but yeah I'm definitely excited and gonna stay excited.  I've enjoyed all the PPVs outside of maybe one since the brand split (Roadblock was meh but still had a great Ironman match and if Summerslam counts then yeah that sucked) so I've got no reason to think they're gonna shit the bed. I loved last year's Rumble too so that helps. I'm gonna mark if Joe debuts or if Angle returns, not gonna lie. Don't care about Balor too much. Personally, I'll be pulling for Taker or Zayn. We've even got talk of Mysterio returning! So much buzz around the match. It should be a fun and entertaining match if just for the mystery alone.
> 
> BTW I thought Styles/Cena from Summerslam sucked too. Still excited for this encounter though cause it's pretty much the biggest title match SD can put together right now outside of maybe Styles/Orton.


Thank God someone agrees on Styles/Cena. All I see is wanking of that match. "FINISHERZ~ EXCITMENT~ ATHLETICIZZ~ 5 STARZ!!!!". Urgh. People got caught up in AJ's clean win big time. Saddest part is that I actually very much enjoyed their MITB match, but this was just awful. Oddly enough, that's the reason I'm watching their match at the Rumble - to see if they can actually do good this time.

Actually I wouldn't at all mind if you went on to enlist your reasonings for enjoyment, and hell, it's your enjoyment and I can't do anything about it. I will, in fact, give you the points of both the Royal Rumble match last year being great, and of pessimism = unlikeliness of enjoyment 

That being said, I do feel that my pessimism has been justified endlessly by the WWE over the years. That's why I feel so uneasy regarding that damn card. Still, I do hope that the WWE proves me wrong, even if I'll spite it cause I have fun ripping them to pieces for all the reasons they continuously give me 8*D

I will say this: if Sami Zayn somehow wins the whole thing, I will masturbate. (Obviously watching a lesbian porn tho :side. But what are the chances of that happening? Zero, that's how many. Zayn will eliminate Strowman and be the Iron Man on best case scenario. Joe could debut, as could Omega. Angle? I really don't see that happening. Wanna bet on that?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Thank God someone agrees on Styles/Cena. All I see is wanking of that match. "FINISHERZ~ EXCITMENT~ ATHLETICIZZ~ 5 STARZ!!!!". Urgh. People got caught up in AJ's clean win big time. Saddest part is that I actually very much enjoyed their MITB match, but this was just awful. Oddly enough, that's the reason I'm watching their match at the Rumble - to see if they can actually do good this time.
> 
> Actually I wouldn't at all mind if you went on to enlist your reasonings for enjoyment, and hell, it's your enjoyment and I can't do anything about it. I will, in fact, give you the points of both the Royal Rumble match last year being great, and of pessimism = unlikeliness of enjoyment
> 
> ...


I understand the pessimism from what they've given us in recent years (excluding 2016) but honestly I'll always be excited for the Rumble match. What makes this year even more intriguing were all the reasons I listed to Pizzamorg a few posts ago. There's just SO many intertwining parts and stories running at the same time. Taker, Goldberg, and Lesnar all in the match, the whole Orton/Wyatt dynamic, Strowman's run of dominance, etc. I just have so much curiosity and excitement toward what will happen and how it'll all go down. The possible returns and debuts just makes it even better. 

After seeing all the people that have come to WWE in the last year or two, I don't think any name is that unlikely. I actually think there's a possibility of Angle, you heard he's going in the Hall of Fame right? He was also supposed to commentate a show in UK tonight but got pulled from it last week so he's totally free and speculation's running rampant. Balor return would get a huge pop and a Joe debut would be big, but I've moved on from thinking about Omega. I expect him to stay with New Japan, but who the hell knows! There's also no dead weight in this match outside of Mojo Rawley. Everyone in there is already a bonafide star, former champion of some sort, or on their way to main event status/being built up as we speak.

Charlotte/Bayley, Reigns/Owens No DQ, and Cena/Styles all have the potential to be great t. I'm even looking forward to Neville vs. Swann because it actually has a story and meaning! And because I hope Neville wins.  Shit, even the stuff on the preshow could be good. Plus we've got 60,000 people in attendance?! It's gonna be awesome.

BTW if what you said about Zayn comes true than I have no problem at all. That would be HUGE for him if he eliminated Strowman and lasted like 40+ minutes in there. I just have this small thought in the back of my head that they've been holding him back for a while and counting him out so he can have this big moment and career making win this Sunday. Just let me think it's possible, please. :lol

Plus if Tye Dillinger comes out at number 10 everyone's gonna go ballistic so there's that too.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Dillinger/Young - ***
Strong/Cien - **3/4
DIY/AOP - ***3/4
Fatal 4 Way - ***1/4
Nakamura/Roode - ****

Really good show and surely we will see Joe and possibly even Nakamura tomorrow. I can't help but think the ending of the Nakamura match might be to throw us off the scent.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Nakamura's best match since his Zayn match. Great stuff.

I HOPE Nakamura is in the Rumble tomorrow. He's too good and over to continue to be in NXT.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NXT Takeover: San Antonio*

Eric Young vs. Tye Dillinger - *** 1/4

Roderick Strong vs. Andrade "Cien" Almas - *** 1/2

*NXT Tag Team Championship*
DIY (c) vs. The Authors of Pain - *** 1/2

*NXT Women's Championship - Fatal Four Way*
Asuka (c) vs. Nikki Cross vs. Peyton Royce vs. Billie Kay - *** 1/4

*NXT Championship*
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs. Bobby Roode - *** 3/4​
- Fun opener with Dillinger having to fight off the numbers game until it became too much, but I can completely understand if someone's turned off by it. Strong/Almas was nothing but a war. All out sprint that's totally enjoyable. I need to go back and watch the Tag Title match sometime because I was dozing in and out for some reason. :lol Liked what I saw though.

- Women's Title match was a really pleasant surprise. I like how they teased Asuka/Nikki but never really let it fully happen and that table spot was completely unexpected. Good showing with Kay & Royce in the final minutes. Very solid & chaotic match. 

- Nakamura/Roode had one hell of an atmosphere, as you'd expect. The amazing thing about it is that while I thought the match was really good, I fully think they're capable of even more. It seems like Nakamura set the bar so high with his first two matches against Zayn and Aries that it's tough for me to say anything else has came close to those two. But yeah they did some good stuff throughout but what set this apart was the angle of the finish. I'm personally thinking it was the scripted finish and they just scripted it so well that it came off as being extremely believable, but either way is really interesting and I had no idea what was gonna happen next. That's always a plus.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

I decided to take a look back at some of the matches that I loved growing up and seeing if they still hold up for me now.

One in particular I wanted to review was Batista vs Undertaker from Wrestlemania 23. So...here I go!

(Gonna take a book out of Brock's page with the centered dialogue, I'm not taking credit for it, PLEASE NO LAWYERS :brockwoah)

*Batista vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 23*

You know, I used to give Batista a lot of shit for his in ring abilities. I know he's had some pretty good matches under his belt, but otherwise I found his in ring resume to be particularly unimpressive. That is until we get to the matches he had with the Undertaker. 

Like Batista, or hate him, he had some incredible chemistry with the Undertaker. And this is the Undertaker we're talking about, a guy who unless it was against Kane at Wrestlemania 14 struggled to get cohesively good matches with other big men. That wasn't the case with Batista though. 

Their match at Wrestlemania as far as I know was the first one they had against each other. And I absolutely loved the build up to this. Both guys constantly trying to get the hit in on each other when ever they could, you could actually feel the tension behind this feud. And it was a unique match up at the time and something refreshing for the Undertaker. For the first time in a while, he was now in one of the main programs, giving him something to really fight for in exchange of his undefeated streak potentially coming to an end. I'll give my thoughts on the match after I give a brief description of the match.

So from the onset, the very first thing Batista does is spear the Undertaker. And from there he doesn't let up. He dominates Taker, throwing him into the steel steps knee first, hitting a shoulder tackle from the second rope, he brought it to the Undertaker. There were brief moments where Taker got some shots in, but otherwise it was all Batista. Undertaker eventually gains the advantage via body shots to Batista's mid section, and is able to mount a comeback against the Animal. He hits the body splash into the corner, a big boot and then followed up with a leg drop. He would then hit a flying clothesline followed by his signature move he likes to call "Old School", and he would eventually send Batista to the outside where he hit his apron leg drop. 

I didn't see his match with Mark Henry at Wrestlemania 22 (I don't remember how considering how I watched the event, but either way I missed it), so what happened next surprised the fuck out of me as a kid. Taker goes back into the ring and hits an over the top rope suicide dive on Batista. Batista would send Taker through the barricade on the other side of the ring and proceeded to follow it up with a running powerslam through the announcers table. After a nice little counter sequence between the two, Taker hits the last ride but only gets a two count. A Spinebuster and Chokeslam later and we see Batista hit another spear followed by the Batistabomb which fails to put away the Phenom. After a failed Tombstone attempt by Batista, Undertaker managed to lift Batista up for the Tombstone to win the title.

So, does it still hold up? Not only does it hold up well, it's actually a lot better than I remember it being. 

When I first saw it, I thought it was a great brutal match. But I never realized how much thought and detail actually went into this match by both men. The story they told was absolutely incredible, and I'll explain what I mean in a moment. But there's a couple things I want to point out first. 

This match was about as far from flashy as you could get. There wasn't any fancy shit going on here. Yeah sure we saw Undertaker dive over the top rope, and that was a big deal at the time. But a lot of what happened was pretty basic. The moves, the counters, the sequences. But that's how it fucking should be. It's Batista and the Undertaker. It's one of the things that has made me grow to hate John Cena as an in ring performer more and more. He was at his best as a brawler who stuck to the storytelling aspect of Pro Wrestling. Fancy technical moved based matches aren't necessary, and they aren't who he is. Here, Batista and Taker stuck to the basics and showed you can have a fantastic match without going all out.

Another thing I want to point out is that the pacing of this match was absolutely phenomenal. Each move they hit felt important because they allowed themselves a decent amount of time after each move to sell its effects and make its impact felt (I know that isn't worded correctly, but you guys know what I mean). The match had a very nice and natural moving flow to it. Because of this, it didn't feel like there were any dead moments in this match. Things just kept moving along nicely and you never felt bored. But at the same time, they didn't do too much and thus when something big happened, it felt important.

Now onto the story. Where do I even begin with this? Two big, larger than life men going at it who absolutely hate each other at this point. And the match played out exactly like that. There was no respect bullshit, none of that played a part here. Neither person held back. Both guys had their significant moments in this match. When you do a big face vs face match, this is exactly how you should do it. Let both guys have their moment to shine and don't let one overshadow the other. But the aspect of their storytelling that I absolutely loved was how they paid homage to the build up. What do I mean by this? Well, let me point out a few examples: 

*Remember that spear I mentioned at the very beginning of the match? In their final confrontation before Mania, they had a big brawl on Smackdown that ended with Batista spearing the Undertaker at the end. That's what was able to get Batista the upper hand in their confrontation. So, to start things off, he goes straight to that, because he knows he can gain a quick advantage with it. 

*There is one sequence that I mentioned very vaguely before and the reason is that I wanted to save it for here. So Batista hits a spinebuster on the Undertaker and the Undertaker responds by doing his signature sit up (don't know what I'm supposed to call it exactly), turns around and hits Batista with a chokeslam. I absolutely love this sequence. Why? Well, for two reasons. First reason, No Way Out. John Cena and Shawn Michaels vs Batista and Undertaker. Batista costs his team the match when he intentionally hits the spinebuster on the Undertaker and then walks out of the ring and watches his partner lose. After the match is over, Batista is watching from the ring ramp when Taker sits up and looks back at Batista. So right here, Batista hits the move that he betrayed the Undertaker with, and Taker sits up just as he did at No Way Out as a response. And then there's the second reason. Anyone remember why Batista did that in the first place? Well, earlier on before that, Undertaker chose Batista as his Wrestlemania opponent after he won the Royal Rumble that year. And when Batista raised the title up in front of him showing he's not afraid of him, the Undertaker chokeslammed him. That was what started it all. So after receiving the move that cost him the match at No Way Out, Undertaker responded by hitting Batista with the move that angered the Animal in the first place. That is absolutely brilliant stuff that we don't see anymore in this day and age and it angers me. 

*Remember that spear I was talking about before? Batista utilizes the spear again before he successfully hits the Batistabomb. Not only does it make sense given the damage he had done to Taker's midsection through out the match, but it once again symbolizes the importance of the spear in this feud (and it's put on display again in their last man standing match, another one I plan on reviewing). 

So in case you haven't figured it out yet, a lot of thought went into this. That whole idea of the "little things" in pro wrestling that certain people never seemed to give a shit about? (I'm looking at you Kurt Angle). It was put on display here. And honestly, that's how you can turn a match into something memorable. Steve Austin was one of the all time greats and it's because of his focus on the little things. While neither man here might have been as good, they certainly did a bitchin job on that night. 

All in all, this match is a classic in my opinion. It's exactly what you should have when you get two big men going up against each other on the grandest stage. It's a match that feels special when you watch it because everything that happens is important. The moves felt impactful, both men came out looking great, the crowd was really into it, the action was great, the selling was good, but more than anything the pacing was just wonderful and it really helped make the story they were trying to sell be told to its fullest. It was two men out to really hurt each other and that's what we got. 

All in all I would give this match a ****1/2 rating. While it's not perfect and a little more focus probably could have been made on selling the mid section damage on Taker's part, this is definitely a great match and one worth checking out. In all honesty, I think this is Taker's best Wrestlemania match after the matches with Michaels. And speaking of, you know you've pulled off something great when your match outshines the main event that had Shawn Michaels in it (and that was with Cena at the time when Cena was at his best in the ring, but that's a discussion for another time).​


----------



## BigDaveBatista (Aug 23, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> I decided to take a look back at some of the matches that I loved growing up and seeing if they still hold up for me now.
> 
> One in particular I wanted to review was Batista vs Undertaker from Wrestlemania 23. So...here I go!
> 
> ...


excellent review, think its criminal that this match didnt go on last when taker won the rumble, just made sense

this is my second favourite batista match behind the triple h hell in a cell


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was here early hours this morning (UK time) watching the chatbox as people were discussing the NXT show as it happened. Me? I was busy watching 5 Matches With... Sgt Slaughter!!! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-sgt-slaughter/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NXT TAKEOVER: SAN ANTONIO - The 1st shitty NXT PPV?




Not really.


*Young/Dillinger - ***
Almas/Strong - **1/4
DIY/AOP - ***3/4
Asuka/Billie/Peyton/Nikki - ***
Nakamura/Roode - ****​*
It looked pretty dry and weak on paper, but holy shit, the NXT Takeover booking team proved their worth once and for all, by making a bleh card into a pretty good show. One of the weakest Takeovers, mind you, but still good, perhaps VERY good nonetheless. Three great matches, two good ones, and a meh one make a damn good show imo.

I very much enjoyed Young/Dillinger. Felt a lot like a shorter Roode/Dillinger from Toronto - a very 80's esque simplistic match, but had the character work, the atmosphere, and the heat to make it work. Young's punches were Matt Hardy worthy (which is high praise). Felt bummed about Tye going down AGAIN, but the story of him fighting the numbers worked well enough for me.

Almas/Strong wasn't bad, entirely because of Andrade Cien Almas. The guy's a really good worker, despite his character being terrible, and he owned the ring as a heel in my books. I did have some nitpicks w/a few things he did, but his performance was really good. His opponent, however, was Roderick Strong. Who may not be Davey Richards bad or anything, but he's boring beyond belief. Never cared about him whatsoever. He represents to me what people used to see Lance Storm as. Strong had some decent arm selling moments, but also many bad arm selling moments. Also HATED how Almas spent the entire match building the bottom rope Knee Driver, only for it to connect at the end and then be completely useless. URGH. If you build something up, don't just throw it in the waste like that. Whatever. Match was average at best, w/a really good performance that wasn't enough to carry it to overall goodness.

DIY/AOP was awesome. I get why some people aren't into the AOP, but I don't think they're as green or as disposable as people make them out to be just because they don't hit 450 Twisting Moonsaults or something. They're WAY better than what The Ascension used to be, that's for sure. Gargano and Ciampa completely won me over as a team, and this match only made them great favors. But it also made the AOP great favors as well, as they did an excellent job of making them look like monster heels (which I would've never figured if that Godawful TM-61 match from Toronto where the anorexic cruiserweights were Suplexing them around like milkshake were my only impression of them). I was bothered by the fact that it turned into a Battle Royal by the end (though what they did in that string was still terrific) and a few other small details, but overall this was stupendous. Not the Revival matches, obviously, but still great.

Gotta say, the Seth Rollins segment did more to hype the HHH/Rollins feud than any 30 minute opening segment on Raw. That was great and totally unexpected, even if it's hilarious that it took Seth this long to figure that HHH is always present in NXT Takeovers.

The Fatal 4-Way was good too. Definitely no Four Horsewomen masterpiece, and to me the weakest NXT Women's Title match on PPV since Charlotte/Natalya (which is beyond overrated), but still good. To me, it was an extra 5 minutes away from being better, as it felt like it ended WAY too suddenly, and I had the sense that there wasn't enough heat as well. However, I did like the constant teasing of Asuka/Nikki, the way that the Aussie hotties took out Nikki, the great justification for the Aussies consistantly rolling out of the ring (a traditional WWE multi-person match trope that gripes my nerves), and the character work all around.

Nak/Roode was, hands down, the best Nakamura match in WWE since the Sami Zayn classic. When he doesn't have to sell a leg for an entire match's duration and just has to focus on kick his opponent's ass (and vice versa), he excels. As he did here. However, in this match, they did have him sell a leg, and unlike every other match I've ever seen him sell a leg, his selljob here was nothing short of flawless. Absolutely FLAWLESS. I actually bought for a little moment he might have actually tweaked his knee there. Until of course I realized that no X had been thrown by the refs or Nakamura himself, which is the indicator of a legit injury. Still, great selljob, and incredible drama in that ending stretch, where my suspension of disbelief was completed through Roode's 1st finisher and that Half Boston Crab, both of which I thought were going to end the match for sure. Roode was GLORIOUS, btw. Again, he's very simplistic in the ring, but all the little things he does, like the fake out into a Rollup before Nak was going for the Boma Ye, were just so good. His entrance.... holy shit, if I had that much pussy walking out to a ring w/me, I'd do EVERYTHING in my power to win like Roode did :lmao. Fantastic match.

Overall, very good show. Your move, Royal Rumble.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Ok show. Nothing I thought was better than good. Dillinger/Young I wasn't invested in much. Absolutely hated that overly contrived setup for the finish. I like Tye as the enhancement guy who generally loses but gets the odd win here and there and is popular despite that but that should be his ceiling. People are getting way carried away with him because it's the era of if we like a guy and he's half decent in the ring he should get a big push and if that doesn't happen then we'll cry about not getting our own way. Strong/Almas was a bit better but a similar story. Good match but barely anything to take away from it. Almas is so much better since the heel turn. This may seem harsh but I just don't see the point in Roderick Strong being a featured act on a WWE show, even NXT. Like what is the point? And I kinda like Roderick Strong. Granted his style now is too spammy but it's like just what is the point in any of this. I much much much preferred the DIY/AOP from last year but this was still good. I'm kinda shocked that so many people seemed to think it was great. AOP are good in their role and have had good matches every single time they were supposed to. Gargano and Ciampa have done well as a team. Someone needs to tell Ciampa he loses 10% of his purse everytime he slaps his thigh. Rollins cameo was great and maybe the best a main roster babyface has been booked in forever. I was really enjoying the womens match and then it just ended out of nowhere when it felt like it was just getting started. Peyton Royce in that outfit is something else entirely. Her and Billie's act is pretty great. I would have loved them going for a pin on each other when Asuka and Nikki were fighting. In a better era Asuka would mock them for not thinking of that but that won't happen. Nikki Cross looked fantastic in this. I was initially turned off by the character because it's become a tad cliche and always done so poorly but she did total screw loose nutjob amazingly well. Once Vnce gets wind of it she'll be ruined though. Table bump was awesome because I totally didn't see the table to the side and expected her to get dropped front first on the announce table. Match ended way too short but I guess they didn't want Asuka selling for the besties. Which sucks and I don't think Asuka is all that good at this stage. She's been the lesser act in every single one of her big matches. Emma was better than her, Bayley was better than her, Jax was better than her, Mickie was better than her and everyone in this was better than her. It wouldn't be so bad if she had killer offence but she really doesn't and her personality really isn't all that strong ever since she won the belt. I might be in love with Peyton Royce now though. Main event was MOTN but only around ***1/2 I spose. Roode not being a total babyface with that entrance is everything wrong with WWE in this era. Nakamura can't keep a crowd once they cool down from the buzz of his entrance and his matches since the Zayn match have been at best good. Roode carries himself really well and is a good but not great worker. Finishing stretch could have been great if the catalyst was better but it sucked. You can't sell a great injury angle without a bump that looks like a legit injury. Everything after that was great and they sold the injury being legit really well. I love the irony of Nakamura suddenly doing this great sell job of the leg off literally nothing when every other time he gets his leg worked and doesn't sell anything of it. If he comes out and runs to the ring tonight my god. I don't expect it even despite this though because they've got a NXT show Mania weekend to sell.*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Dillinger/Young - ***
Almas/Strong - ***1/4
DIY/AoP - ***1/2
Asuka/Royce/Kay/Cross - ***1/4
Nakamura/Roode - ****1/4

first match was barely ***, just liked the finishing sequence.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY Owens/Reigns was a fucking blast. Thank you Strowman! :mark: 

****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I was in the minority for loving the SS match, but I don't care, I loved this Rumble Cena/Styles battle too. Loved it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Piss fucking poor. Looks like you were right @ATF 

I should be way more excited for Orton winning, but absolutely not with the way that was booked. Real disappointing considering the build. Fucking Taker couldn't even move, either. Hats off to Strowman though. He was probably the highlight of the match.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather Strowman won the fucking Rumble. Lesnar and Goldberg were the usual crap, Taker looked like he was about to turn to dust with every step he took, God. Rumble sucked. I've actually been enjoying Orton as of late, but giving him the Rumble? In 2017? Shit.

Had hopes for the Cena/Styles match. Up until the first AA I was like "Is this gonna go the route of MITB, except without the interference? :mark::mark::mark:", then after the AA I immediately realized "Nah, it's gonna be Summerslam again except with Cena winning. Fuck".

Didn't pay any attention whatsoever to any other matches tbh lol.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Aye, the Strowman period of that match was great. Then the midcard wrestlers filled it up and it became bogged down and very linear. I was expecting fuckery for the last unannounced two when it came to Lesnar coming out at 26 and I was fucking right. I'm not too fussed about it though. Was just sitting there laughing as Reigns came out. They've just embraced his "lightning rod" role and showing it off proudly to the world.

But yeah, expected that little WWE knife-twist surprise when no legends or surprise returns came out during the first 25. You know, the one the crowd wanted for Bryan 3 years ago .

Cena Styles was just a very strange match to me. I don't know. It was like I kinda see what they were going for but it wasn't my taste of wrestling so I sat through it judging it rather than feeling like "yeah, this is good" like I was for Reigns-Owens. I'd probably give it like *** while Reigns Owens would likely be ****. 

With the Rumble taking like 60 minutes and 2 hours left, I was expecting Cena-Styles to be given time for a WWE response to Omega-Okada. Instead, very strange wrestling match that was more like John Cena's "Ya see, I can do wrasslin moves" after his initial attempt of his traditional moveset failed to put Styles down. Styles worked perfectly with what he was given but yeah, felt like this was Cena's match and it was just a very alien to what I expected. Disappointed.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Match died after BRAUN was eliminated. He was killing it, then they killed the match. Too many unbelievable geeks after that deflated the crowd. Then they saved up all the star power for the end to heat up the finishing stretch, but booked all of those guys horribly. Reigns being in at the end was done just so Orton's win wasn't rejected. The ANYONE BUT REIGNS mentality. If you liked that finish then you're either a big Orton mark (lel) or WWE worked you good and proper.

REMEMBER THE RUMBLE.

Wel, it was unforgettably shite.

Will have to re-watch them, but I enjoyed the undercard matches that I saw. Cena receiving some real respect from the crowd was a great moment too.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Don't see why they eliminated Strowman so early.

Strowman, Corbin, Goldberg, Lesnar, Zayn, Jericho, Orton, Undertaker, Wyatt and Reigns all would have been a brilliant final 10 competitors.

Everyone knows how big a Strowman fan I am so I am glad they gave him some strong booking tonight. Loved that he helped Owens retain the title, hope it's explained more than "Reigns speared me on the stage a few weeks back" etc and made him look strong in the Rumble eliminating Henry and picking Show up like it's nothing and eliminating him. I also thought Gallagher's spot was pretty damn cool too, so entertaining.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

I like both Orton and Bray but the match at No Mercy was awful. Orton and Bray will get crickets at Mania. The only thing that would have made sense having Orton win was if AJ retained.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Erik. said:


> Don't see why they eliminated Strowman so early.
> 
> *Strowman, Corbin, Goldberg, Lesnar, Zayn, Jericho, Orton, Undertaker, Wyatt and Reigns all would have been a brilliant final 10 competitors.*
> 
> Everyone knows how big a Strowman fan I am so I am glad they gave him some strong booking tonight. Loved that he helped Owens retain the title, hope it's explained more than "Reigns speared me on the stage a few weeks back" etc and made him look strong in the Rumble eliminating Henry and picking Show up like it's nothing and eliminating him. I also thought Gallagher's spot was pretty damn cool too, so entertaining.


Especially if it could have been a chaotic hell for leather finish where nobody could predict who would win. Do that for five minutes as a finishing stretch with a satisfying winner (aka GOLDBERG who was super over as predicted) and the crowd would have been eating out of WWE's palms.

I don't mind Corbin eliminating Braun, but why the fuck do it at that stage of the match. That was a story (aka BRAUN killing people) that the crowd was invested in and they just ended it abruptly.

When did Patterson stop booking? Might be A LOT to do with these recent garbage rumbles.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This was such a flop of a Rumble after all the hype.

Aside from Strowman (WHO SHOULD HAVE WON) the entire match was built around these doofus part-timers who can't even move around for 3 minutes before blowing off (more so Goldberg and Taker, Lesnar can go) but the entire full-time roster that was in the ring looked like a bunch of jabroni geeks so they could get thrown around.

Don't get me started on the fact that we came into this match with *EIGHT* open spots and the ONLY surprise not on the main roster was Tye Dillinger. No Samoa Joe. Brock Lesnar is standing tall in the ring waiting for #27 and they give us ENZO AMORE? NO SAMOA JOE? That stare down would have been HUGE.

AND ROMAN REIGNS AT 30. I can't even fucking comment on it. That is just... what the fuck.

Flop of a Rumble imo. The match died when Strowman was eliminated.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

seabs said:


> *I love the irony of Nakamura suddenly doing this great sell job of the leg off literally nothing when every other time he gets his leg worked and doesn't sell anything of it.*


My God, yes :lol I didn't much care for this match, but I did care for Bálor/Nakamura. Fucking Nakamura could've taken the selling from THIS match, and put it in THAT match, y'know, since Bálor spent the whole time working the shit out of his leg. Instead he takes this opportunity to sell his leg like he's gonna have to get it amputated for no apparent reason. Fuck me.

On the subject of TakeOver, how come every midget motherfucker has to start ragdolling AoP for a bit in apparently every TakeOver match they're in? First it was one of the TM-61 guys, then it's Ciampa busting out Germans on both of them, Jesus. Also there was this really weird part in the match where one of the AoP guys was on his knees, Ciampa was hitting him in the face repeatedly while the dude growled at him...? What the fuck is up with building a comeback for the 6ft3, 290lb guy who's getting beaten up by the 5ft10, 200lb babyface? Goddamn.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I think a Smackdown guy as ALWAYS going to win the Rumble to be honest - with the Elimination Chamber coming up, it made the most sense. I personally would have loved to have seen Goldberg win it just for how over he was and the fact he's one of the legends who have NEVER won it, after demolishing Brock at Survivor Series and again tonight, he would have been a credible winner.

But I guess they have Lesnar/Goldberg set in stone and they booked themselves into a corner with not knowing how to get them two in the same match if Goldberg ended up winning the thing.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I thought the SD guy winning the Rumble would have been Joe and him choosing to face Cena at WM. THAT is something I could get behind. I want a Wyatt title run more than anyone but if the plan is for Orton/Wyatt for the title... god. Their PPV match wasn't good, and there's no way they're going to put Harper in a triple-threat title match at WM.

Strowman should have won.

ALSO, I am SOOOO happy Cena isn't being wasted on Taker after watching Taker work this Rumble.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So many quality points in the last few posts. It would be great if all these folks would post more frequently in here. :lol

I have no idea what they're gonna do with the Universal Title at Mania. I really don't think Owens goes in as champ. Loses it at Fastlane to... someone. Goldberg? Who the fuck knows. Owens vs. Jericho doesn't need the belt and I don't think it'll have it. Lesnar vs. Goldberg probably main events with Lesnar going over hopefully (my god please).

I also agree that at this point with Wyatt just being a guy that's there, the program with Orton is not hot enough to go on by itself as a WWE Title match. Orton vs. Wyatt vs. Cena vs. Styles? Idk. I really hope AJ doesn't get wasted on Shane McMahon even though I'm sure that would be quite entertaining.

This company's fascination with Roman Reigns is getting rather sickening. That motherfucker will beat Strowman at Fastlane before moving on to Taker. Mark my words.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey;65291970 I really don't think Owens goes in as champ. Loses it at Fastlane to... someone. Goldberg? Lesnar vs. Goldberg probably main events
I really hope AJ doesn't get wasted on Shane McMahon
That motherfucker will beat Strowman at Fastlane before moving on to Taker. Mark my words.[/QUOTE said:


> I hate all of these, so they'll probably happen


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If the Rumble had really delivered, it probably would've one of the best Rumble PPVs of all time imo. Of course, it did not deliver.

Charlotte/Bayley - *** 1/4 (I really enjoyed this and thought Bayley looked great)

Owens/Reigns No DQ - **** (Awesome brawl and loved the finish, even though it doesn't make much sense now if they're just gonna run Taker/Reigns. Who the hell even wanted to see that? No one, that's who.)

Swann/Neville - *** (I can't believe I'm saying this but Swann carried the match. Neville worked soooo damn slow and boring to the point that I was just dying to see him do a flip. :lol Finish kind of annoyed me because Swann climbed the ropes slow as dirt so many times during the match.)

Styles/Cena - **** (I'll watch it again sometime but all the big moves and finishers didn't bother me as much as last time since they actually sold them and took time between them. I surprisingly enjoying the submission trading too. This title win for Cena will make absolutely no sense at all though if he just drops the belt two weeks from now at the Chamber, which he obviously will imo because NO ONE thinks they're doing Orton vs. Cena again. NO ONE)

Rumble Match - **? (Braun was the man, Roman was not. I can't tell you how depressed/angry I was when he threw Zayn out like he didn't even matter. So damn sad. Lesnar was made to look like a bitch again, Goldberg was super over but didn't really do anything other than that, and Taker could barely fucking move. Why keep Jericho in the match for that long either? Orton's win would've been much more meaningful if he and Wyatt were actually dominant. Did either of them eliminate anyone? I really don't know. Roman out at 30 was a total fucking joke. Someone explain to me how he managed to get that spot over AJ Styles? It makes no sense! This final few minute stank of 2015 all over again.)

P.S. - Also WWE don't be dumbasses and announce Kurt Angle as a HOF entrant before the Rumble because then speculation is gonna run wild for his return and people will be disappointed. Also don't take Joe off of NXT TV for weeks and don't have him wrestle at Takeover if you're not gonna debut him at the Rumble, people will be disappointed. Also don't put Roman Reigns in the Royal Rumble match when he's not announced, people will be disappointed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Charlotte/Bayley was really good. Bit dry at certain parts but Charlotte usually filled time with really cool shit, or just straight up did cool shit altogether. The double spot on the outside with the ring and the steps was badass and kind of of an un-WWE move to pull off. Nothing contrived, she just used whatever she had at the time. The finish was terrific and something I absolutely didn't see coming (again, pretty un-WWE). I wanna say more cool things about this but I'm going off of memory here and this was like 5 hours ago gimme a break.

I purposely used 'un-WWE' to praise the women's match because Reigns/Owens was basically the exact opposite. It was such a WWE match and yes I'm fine using that as an insult in this case. Random crowd brawling, contrived set up of chairs, the announce table spot, the billion kick outs (seriously, fuck me, the kick outs), the run in finish. Maybe I haven't seen much to judge but man Owens does nothing for me. Nothing about him makes me want to keep watching, and the opening where he and Reigns traded offense made his look pretty bland. He had feathery everything other than that awesome rolling thingy on he barricade. Thought Reigns was great overall in this barring the usual WWE shit. Sells every chairshot as really impactful, and sells where you'd want him to. If he gets hit near the neck, that's where he sells it while cramping his shoulders together. If he gets hit just below the ribs, that's where sells it, and he'll chickenwing his arm to put it over. Coughing after the stunner was fantastic and something that rarely anybody ever seemed to ever do. Reigns is great. Obvious, dogshit chair pile spot had to happened. WWE thing to do. Strowman's run in was kind of funny. WWE thing to do. I probably would have wound up on the floor crying with laughter if it was Kane. Oh yeah, Jericho was sort of in this. Cool start to the match. The brass knuckles might have been also cool if they really had any impact on the match at all. Kind of thought the whole match would have been good if dumb shit didn't keep getting in the way. 

Neville/Swann was good as fuck. Neville seems like the type of guy who really cares about being a heel, even to the point of cutting down on high-risk crowd-popping offense to focus more on grounding his opponent and letting him work upward. Even though honestly based on this match I could see him absolutely working as a heel who uses that type of offense anyway. Though I won't complain, his stuff is pretty violent looking and he isn't afraid to stretch a guy out on a hold or submission. Swann's really good at doing that crowd-poppy offense while also selling the damage he's taken in the match. Looks to me like he would work well into that weekly Rey/Christian role of face who fights upward, even if I want Cedric Alexander to be that guy instead. We can have more than one! Obligatory sentence where I ask to see Swann against heel Cesaro.

I wish Styles/Cena happened somewhere else because I really cannot get past the excessive nearfalls. Cena literally took the Styles clash and like immediately was able to fire back with those 2 AAs right at the end. Nothing about it came off like desperation to me, it was just "oh that move was nothing I'm ok." Putting that aside both guys were really fucking awesome. Idk if Styles goes for that Mr. Perfect/Shawn Michaels/Dolph Ziggler super exaggerated bump selling, but if he does then he's the best ever at it. It's honestly shocking to me how he manages to flop around everywhere and have it come off as totally legit at the same time. His offense is almost equally incredible, he might actually have the best high flying offense of any American wrestler I can remember. Those knee drops, too. Fuck. Oh and he somehow doesn't really wrestle like a heel, yet it's clear every second of the match he is the heel. No idea how he pulls that off either. Cena's selling on the pelee (pele? PAYLAY? whatever fuck the fitba) kick that only just hit the shoulder was really brilliant. It was clear it didn't totally connect but it got him enough that his brain was rattled a little. Leaning against the ropes it felt like he had dodged a bit of a bullet. Again I'm very lukewarm on how the match evolved into the finisher/submission fest but this was good stuff and remember no faults in the build.

I....loved the Rumble. This is maybe the first Rumble I can ever remember where every single entrant had something unique and/or interesting to bring. It's questionable 'realism' that the newest guy comes in and gets the spotlight, but at the same time you can pull a bit of stretch and say well yeah they're the freshest guy too. Like seriously, it felt like everybody served some purpose in the match. Everybody....Maybe except Dolph Ziggler but I zone out when he does anything anyway. Cesaro had his swing segment, Harper faced off with Orton/Wyatt, Jericho played '96 Lawler and Reigns got his revenge on him later, Kofi and Corbin did that...weird ring post thing, New Day had their double and triple team moments, the Big Show and Mark motherfuckin Henry were there and put Strowman over after wiping guys out, Ambrose, Rusev, Dillinger, Zayn, Big Cass, the Miz were always around doing stuff and had their own cool individual moments, that Helmsworth guy had the thing with Ambrose/Strowman and took a ludicrous bump on the elimination, Apollo Crews got some time to shine, Gallagher had his incredible umbrella shtick. I remember the first time the crowd stopped caring and chanted "Goldberg"; they shut up immediately when all of New Day were taken out by Sheamus & Cesaro, both of who were eliminated straight after it. Strowman's rampage was really good, and maybe it's because this is the first real time I've paid attention to him so I have no investment, but, I really didn't mind his elimination or where it was timed. It really felt like he did enough. There was just something happening all the time and I like a rumble that way. There was no "oh, it's #17 , Jamie Noble, and he goes to attack someone in the corner." Lesnar/Golberg/Taker/Reigns being in the last 5 entrants is also questionable for 'realism', but for build I'm fine with it. Not to mention it gave everyone else time to shine. Like the Enzo thing was dumb but I mean you remember that, right? You aren't going to forget what he did in the match. Lesnar killing people was obviously cool, and considering they can't reverse their Goldberg/Lesnar decision from last year, I kind of enjoyed how their interaction turned out. This is like the first time a part timer v. part timer feud has an actual story since the Mania 28 HIAC, isn't it? Like "Goldberg has his number!" Gives a reason for the feud to exist now, at least. That's a fuckton better than "duhhhh Shane McMahon can beat Undertaker?!!" which resulted in a 0.5/10 match. Taker in the rumble was whatever, but if he's this frail at this point, then hiding that frailty among a mass of other guys is cool with me. Orton can get fucked. Not been excited to see him in probably over a half dozen years and there is no wrestler on Earth that they could put against at Mania and make me care. Like seriously bring Cavernario in and I still don't give much of a shit. Ok, LA Park. LA Park is the only one I'd really care to see face Orton at Mania. In the world. Why isn't Reigns a full blown heel yet? C'mon. Meh booking, but idk I don't go into these things for booking. Honestly through multiple parts of the match I thought it was the most consistently enjoyable rumble I've ever seen. Shrug.

I had a huge amount of fun with the show. If I ever had to make a list of top WWE matches of 2017 like I have tried to with 2010, I think I'd re-watch three of the four singles matches on the card. I'm thinking I should start following wrestling in some way again. Bet Mania sucks dick and that's where I give up.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Six-woman tag - *3/4
Raw Tag Titles - **3/4
Sasha/Nia - *1/2
Charlotte/Bayley - ***1/4
Owens/Reigns - ***3/4
Neville/Swann - ***1/2 - **** in this range, going back and forth. 
Cena/Styles - ****3/4
Royal Rumble - ** (died with Strowman's elimination)

Ugh. Such a great show before the Rumble match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I've been lucky enough to witness both Cena/Styles at Summerslam and Royal Rumble live. I thought tonight's match was A MILLION times better than SS and it would have been near perfect if they didn't start spamming the fuck out of finishers and big spots towards the end. It was just too much and left me rolling my eyes at points. It amazes me how many people still think a match is going to end on the first AA. 

Anyways, this was my first live Rumble and I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's such a fun match to witness in person, even if I disagree with some of the outcomes. Could have done without that bullshit at the end though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@Yeah1993 if you liked Neville/Swann that much you should definitely check out both of Neville's matches with TJ Perkins and Cedric Alexander (did you even know that happened?) from 205 Live earlier this month. Both quality.

I hear everything you're saying with the Rumble in the positive light. I agree that most everyone was given their proper time to shine and there was definitely so much action going on (did you notice how much Miz got his ass kicked every time someone came in?) but god almighty some of those eliminations were SO FLAT. It's like everyone was just basically wrestling a match against each other and then when one of the big names came in, they remember it's a Royal Rumble and eliminations occur. Idk if you've seen the 2015 match but some of the same shit happened with Big Show and Kane dumping people out like they meant nothing after all the work they've put in. I mean, you just saw the match a couple hours ago and can you even remember how Miz, Ambrose, or Zayn were eliminated? Should've been more meaningful imo.

You should totally watch the 2016 Rumble if you liked this one so much. That's the best Rumble match in probably the last 8-10 years imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> So I've been lucky enough to witness both Cena/Styles at Summerslam and Royal Rumble live. I thought tonight's match was A MILLION times better than SS and it would have been near perfect if they didn't start spamming the fuck out of finishers and big spots towards the end. It was just too much and left me rolling my eyes at points. *It amazes me how many people still think a match is going to end on the first AA. *
> 
> Anyways, this was my first live Rumble and I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's such a fun match to witness in person, even if I disagree with some of the outcomes. Could have done without that bullshit at the end though.


Seriously, this is so ridiculous. :lol Every time I see it I literally say out loud that it's way too early and it's not over. Probably shouldn't spam them so much these days but whatevs. It's a shitty move anyway.

Seeing a Rumble is something I'd rather do than go to a Wrestlemania (with a lot of that having to do with the size of the arena/stadium). They're gonna be in Philly next year and I don't care who I end up going with but I'm damn sure gonna do my best to get there.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Corey said:


> Seriously, this is so ridiculous. :lol Every time I see it I literally say out loud that it's way too early and it's not over. Probably shouldn't spam them so much these days but whatevs. It's a shitty move anyway.
> 
> Seeing a Rumble is something I'd rather do than go to a Wrestlemania (with a lot of that having to do with the size of the arena/stadium). They're gonna be in Philly next year and I don't care who I end up going with but I'm damn sure gonna do my best to get there.


I didn't even get up out of my seat for the first AA. Surely by now people should know it takes at least 2, in this case fucking 4!!! 

I've been to 6 Mania's but never a Rumble. It has always been on my bucket list and now I can say I've finally done it! While I wasn't thrilled with some of the booking decisions in the Rumble match itself, I'll be damned if that shit wasn't fun as hell. The anticipation for every countdown is unreal. I had a blast. It's definitely worth it imo.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corey said:


> @Yeah1993 if you liked Neville/Swann that much you should definitely check out both of Neville's matches with TJ Perkins and Cedric Alexander (did you even know that happened?) from 205 Live earlier this month. Both quality.


Before the pre-show I thought today was the first time Styles/Cena had a match lmao), so no I didn't know any of those happened. I have the network now, I should just start watching. I never even finished cruiserweight classic.



Corey said:


> I hear everything you're saying with the Rumble in the positive light. I agree that most everyone was given their proper time to shine and there was definitely so much action going on (did you notice how much Miz got his ass kicked every time someone came in?) but god almighty some of those eliminations were SO FLAT. It's like everyone was just basically wrestling a match against each other and then when one of the big names came in, they remember it's a Royal Rumble and eliminations occur. Idk if you've seen the 2015 match but some of the same shit happened with Big Show and Kane dumping people out like they meant nothing after all the work they've put in. I mean, you just saw the match a couple hours ago and can you even remember how Miz, Ambrose, or Zayn were eliminated? Should've been more meaningful imo.
> 
> You should totally watch the 2016 Rumble if you liked this one so much. That's the best Rumble match in probably the last 8-10 years imo.


I did think the Miz was sneakily one of the standout guys, makes me optimistic whenever I get around to the Ziggler feud. I do see what you mean about eliminations, yeah. I guess I didn't really think about it because I never thought guys like Ambrose or Zayn had a chance of winning anyway, but I too wasn't fond of it being just being like "Ambrose has been thrown out." I'll completely admit if I had been following the product for a while I might have felt differently, but as just actual match quality goes I thought it just turned out really well. Considering my hate affair with part timers sometimes I'm actually surprised I wasn't more negative on the last third of it.

I should watch 2016's rumble, never actually did which sucks because seeing AJ debut's would have been cool. Hopefully I don't get to bothered seeing HHH. I'm at an all time low tolerance with even catching the sight of him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Have basically been watching the entire PPV over again on the replay here on the network. Sticking with **** for both the big title matches. Cena was so fucking on point tonight. That was his match out there. Guy looked so determined and that facial expression after the super AA was fantastic. Just can't go any higher because that's simply not the match formula that I go for. Still the best match in their series though.

Anyone notice how much love Cena gave little naitch Charles Robinson after winning for the 16th time? Nce little touch.



Yeah1993 said:


> Hopefully I don't get to bothered seeing HHH. I'm at an all time low tolerance with even catching the sight of him.


You may wanna give it some time then. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

With a clear head and not so angry mindset, just finished the Rumble match again. In all honestly, it was a total 180 and I'm very glad to say that. Some aspects were definitely still disappointing, but the hope isn't there anymore for me to want more out of it in terms of surprise entrants and all that. Just watching back with what we got, it actually a pretty exciting match.

How were Jack Gallagher and Big Show even in this match? Gallagher only wrestles in the cruiserweight division and Big Show already has a match against Shaq at Mania. :lol Oh well, can't apply much logic in wrestling.

The entire Strowman segment was fucking phenomenal. He was such a monster and they had the perfect amount of close calls with him. Only helps that he eliminated so many crowd favorites and the callback with Ellsworth was hilarious. I wish he had lasted a bit longer or that Sami would've gotten the elimination, but the crowd popped hard for it so it's all good. Corbin actually looked really good here too.

I'm pretty sure Sami took more finishers than anyone. I counted a skullcrushing finale, a chokeslam from Taker, jackhammer from Goldberg, and an RKO. Maybe he _was_ the real the MVP and Ironman the whole time!? :lol Jk. I really wanted him to win or do something to break the mold... I really did. 

When Orton hits the ring at number 23 is where everything sort of falls into place but at the same time starts to unravel. I really liked the stuff with Harper and hope that goes even further on TV, maybe with Luke bringing back Rowan? Idk. 

Lesnar dumping Ambrose over immediately was really weird looking at how much Dean was shown backstage throughout the night but Taker was what I think made this the most depressing at times. He literally only left his feet once (other than elimination) and that was to get speared by Goldberg, which didn't look very good and he no sold like a motherfucker by quickly getting up and tossing him out. I think I recall reading somewhere he needs hip surgery but is holding off on it until after Mania which may explain it. Other guys kept coming to him and trying to make him look good but he was so stiff and barely got around without stumbling. The eliminations of Miz and Zayn were shitty. No getting around that for me.

You guys have no idea how much I wanna see Lesnar beat Goldberg now. He's been punked so fucking badly the past couple months and it's been far too long since we've seen him on top or in the title picture. I need Lesnar/Reigns again later this year. Summerslam or something.

Ziggler did nothing in this match and I fucking love it. :lol Wyatt also did a bunch of nothing to note. He was just kind of in there while Orton did all the work. Anyone remember Taker tossing Corbin out? Yeah it was forgettable.

The Reigns/Taker thing is much more tolerable on the 2nd viewing. It would actually be pretty fucking amazing if Taker didn't look like horse shit because this is obviously a huge match by WWE standards. Reigns mouthing "my yard" to him after the elimination is the perfect touch and I wish I could've understood what Taker said in response but I couldn't. Anyone catch it? 

New rating: **** 1/2*

Crowd was very lively, action was nonstop throughout, and lots of stories revisited/created. I think this might be remembered much better in the future than it does just hours after. We'll see though. Reigns is still the most hated man in the universe.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Taker's sell of Goldberg's spear reminded me of 2002 Hulk Hogan.

Gonna selectively watch WWE this year starting from the beginning. By selectively I mean I'll skip around on the episodes on the network and watch what interests me. The joy of streaming services. If 2012 me had wrestling streaming services I would have watched even more wrestling that year and that is a terrifying thought. Since February hasn't started yet, SURELY I can get through this one month? I seriously don't know every show WWE even have on right now though. I'll figure it out.

edit - if this "205" thingy from Jan. 3rd is the first thing that happened in the year, then the first match I get to watch has TAJIRI IN IT! :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No way Taker was taking that at full pelt I guess lol. It was still cool to see though and I'm glad they had them interact tbh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw man how long does it take them to put Raw and SmackDown on the Network's In Ring section? Put a damper on me.

Anyway I watched every match the 205 from 1/3 (didn't bother to finish Noam Dar's match though). Was pretty enjoyable. I'm not saying I really SEE something in Sean Maluta, but I think he'd be really good if he just found his "thing." Like the right gimmick or something. Feels like he needs a reason to be out there that isn't just I Am Samoan.

Guys, Jack's Gallagher's bulge is pretty big. Confirm or no?



Checking out Main Event from the same day. Lince Dorado's fucking little teeth on his mask is the still the funniest thing I've ever seen in wrestling. I can't explain why it just looks so sad and hilarious. I 10000% don't exaggerate saying I spent the entire first match he had on the cruiserweight classic laughing. No seriously, I do not exaggerate saying that. Even when I start to find it less funny, he's shot from a different angle so I see a side I haven't before and my laugh meter resets back to max.




























:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Corey Guess who was right? I don't wanna brag, but... I kinda knew they'd fuck it up.

I paid some attention to the Raw title matches. Didn't watch them in full, just saw a while of them. Women's Title match seemed okay, if sloppy, w/a well told story that reminded me of their great Takeover: Fatal 4-Way match. Universal Title match seemed like a generic WWE brawl w/a lot of SPOTZ~ and SPOTZ~ setting up. Did have some sick bumps, but that's not enough to get me invested. Whatever. Thank God Owens retained, though. Skipped the CW match cause who gives a shit and Rich Swann is awful.

I did see Styles/Cena in full. It was basically a mish mash of their MITB and SummerSlam matches. The 1st 9 minutes (before the 1st AA) were GREAT. Then the 1st AA hit, and I rolled my eyes, but I noticed a pattern that Cena was clocking in unusual aggression that made me think for a moment: "Are they gonna work a double turn here?", which would've justified the consistent AA kicking out very well. But then Styles hit the Phenomenal Forearm and it just became a moves festival like SummerSlam. I did like the finish of Cena resorting to 2 AA's in a row to win, but then again, he completely no sold the Styles Clash that preceeded that. Total meh fest. Not head exploding like SS, nowhere near really good like MITB, just... meh. Middle road. Better thank the great opening act for that. I will give them credit for great selljobs BEFORE they just went into non stops moves. Especially Cena. He looked on point.

Now, the Royal Rumble. I wouldn't say it was total balls or anything, it did have a lot of nice in it. The Braun Strowman bit was, hands down, the best part of the match (oddly enough). That was brilliant, made everybody look good, and especially made Strowman look like a true monster. JACK GALLAGHER :mark: Fuck yes to that. Tye's cameo was, if unsurprising, very welcome. Loved the execution of Harper turning on Bray. The Lesnar shock elimination was, well, shocking, and I did like the short Taker/Goldberg bit. Had fun w/the Cesaro Swing festival, and the New Day had some cool moments here and there too.

Other than that, well, absolutely nothing else memorable about a match that the WWE ironically wanted all of us to "remember". Everything before Braun Strowman was boring, mostly everything in between Strowman's elimination and Harper's arrival was forgettable, and, of course, the curse of the Royal Rumble since 2015, Roman fucking Reigns, at #30 ? After Lesnar, Goldberg and Undertaker, anything less than a BIG #30 was gonna be disappointing..... but Reigns? Huh? I HATE it when people who get a World Title shot at the Rumble PPV show up in the Rumble match. Samoa Joe? Finn Bálor? Anybody else? Hell, I'd take a Rollins appearance, which would make zero sense given the storyline, over that. At least everyone's collective minds would explode.

And the booking of the Final Four was just ridiculous. I guess Meltzer really wasn't kidding when he said that Orton was winning the Rumble. But, why the fuck was Orton the winner? Jericho would've done more w/it, Bray would've done WAY more w/it, and I can name a bunch other people that would've done more w/it. Zayn, Miz, Strowman (who impressed me big time in the match, admitedly), even someone like Ambrose or Corbin. Hell, why not Harper instead? Would've been completely out of nowhere, but would've brought his turn on the Wyatts full circle.

Not to mention, what the fuck is their plan going forward? I thought for sure it was gonna be Reigns/Strowman, is it gonna be Taker/Reigns now? They didn't do ANYTHING to move the Reigns/Strowman feud forward in the Rumble match, just fucking stupid. If you wanted Reigns to show up, have him help the babyfaces eliminate Strowman in revenge for costing him the title, or something like that. No sense to be made. And I swear to God, if they book Cena/Orton #188372837913018301381 as the WWE Title match at WrestleMania, I will not watch the WWE, or wrestling period, ever again. Not that they care, they have all the millions of mindless sheep bringing in the dollars, but it'll save me the misery of giving a shit about this rat's ass product.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2017

6 woman tag-**1/2
Club/Shesaro-***1/4
Nia/Sasha-*3/4
Bayley/Charlotte-***1/4
KO/Roman-****1/2
Neville/Swann-***1/2
AJ/Cena-****1/2
Rumble-***1/2

2 GREAT world title matches that delivered in every way possible. Both totally different and awesome in their own ways.

Neville and Swann could have been higher with a better finishing stretch and a better atmosphere, they had a hard spot going in after the previous match.

The rumble match itself was pretty good until the final 5 entrants, the booking just boggles the mind and made sure that NO ONE got over. 

Overall this was a great show action wise but whenever you blow the booking of one of your biggest attractions it's definitely a huge negative. 7/10


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Kofi Kingston got the unlucky #14 spot :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/royal-rumble-2017-ramblings/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What you think of the Goldberg/Taker stuff, Cal? And Taker in general.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Cal is a Strowman fan? :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@ATF I don't think there's any chance at all that they run Cena/Orton again at Mania. I'm thinking they're gonna make Cena's 16th title win pointless and have him lose it in two weeks at the Chamber. Preferably I'd like to see Orton vs. Styles, but I think Wyatt wins so that match can have the belt attached to it, which isn't really necessary imo.

Samoa Joe has to fucking debut somewhere in the next couple weeks. HAS TO. Think he somehow ends up facing Cena at Mania but who knows.

I think Reigns/Strowman will happen at Fastlane, which of course Reigns will win and then face Taker at the big dance.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> @ATF I don't think there's any chance at all that they run Cena/Orton again at Mania. I'm thinking they're gonna make Cena's 16th title win pointless and have him lose it in two weeks at the Chamber. Preferably I'd like to see Orton vs. Styles, but I think Wyatt wins so that match can have the belt attached to it, which isn't really necessary imo.
> 
> Samoa Joe has to fucking debut somewhere in the next couple weeks. HAS TO. Think he somehow ends up facing Cena at Mania but who knows.
> 
> I think Reigns/Strowman will happen at Fastlane, which of course Reigns will win and then face Taker at the big dance.


You don't think there's a chance of Cena/Orton? You also thought there was a chance of Joe debuting (and I'll admit, so did I), and look where that went :lol Dude, Vince McMahon is probably legit brain damaged. We're talking about the guy that thought that Batista/Orton at WM 30 was gonna be "the greatest WM ME of all time", and thought that Roman Reigns headlining the last two WM's was a good idea in spite of the crowds almost universally booing him. Memba the 2015 debacle? I still memba. We coulda gotten Lesnar/Bryan that year. Nope, ROMAN it had to be. And this isn't blind hate, I think Reigns is a very talented performer, but anybody can look at the way they're booking him and just laugh at it. I think jobbers were better booked 20 years ago than Reigns.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Show was easy to go through and none of the matches were bad but I'm kinda sat here thinking what I take away from the show and I'm kinda blanking because who wins matches means nothing and none of the directions the show setup are very interesting. Orton winning is just total whatever. It's not even a well Strowman won and it does nothing for me but it does something for the product I suppose. Who gains anything from Randy Orton winning the Royal Rumble in 2017? I'm not even sure how it sets up a big match at Mania either. I still imagine him and Bray are working each other with Orton revealing his incredible plan to tear apart the Wyatt Family from inside that everyone saw coming from day 1. But if not then what? Orton/Cena would be the biggest FU ever, even bigger than Batista and Reigns the past few years. Orton/AJ is ok but it's two babyfaces pretending to be heels. They got Goldberg/Lesnar spot on again. Reigns/Taker I don't get at all unless Reigns is actually turning in which case it's brilliant. It's not a combination that interest me otherwise though.

Pre-show matches were nothing. Naomi is trash but she was very good off the hot tag. This was Mickie James' first match back and she did absolutely nothing. Natalya's "personality" work is really awkward. Anderson & Gallows really aren't good. Gallows came to New Japan as I was stopping watching it but Anderson was great with Bernard and great on his own and Gallows was doing some good stuff on Youtube post WWE run but they're just guys in WWE. Match was nothing. The stip meant absolutely nothing as per usual. Meant absolutely nothing in the Reigns/Owens match too. I suspect this is a title change just to keep the program going which we have and will continue to see a lot with two rosters because they can't afford to do one and done programs anymore. Sasha/Jax was barely a match but it wasn't good for what it was. Sasha's leg sell was fine but I so expected so much more from her in that position. Figured it was logical that Sasha's bad leg would be the out for the finish and her losing but instead she just lost clean as a sheet with no out like they gave Nakamura. When a babyface loses so clean it usually means they're turning.

Bayley/Charlotte was good for what it was but it wasn't much. Charlotte is out of this world good in terms of her work in between spots. No wasted motion so to speak. I love how organic her matches feel too. The dual spot on the outside with the apron and the stairs bumps are the perfect example of that. Her setups don't feel contrived. Bayley just so happens to be near the steps so I'll just punt her into them. Bayley was good but this was by no means a showcase for her. As in they didn't let it be rather than she didn't do herself justice. It was just a match. I liked the finish but it was real flat because it came out of nowhere and was a big anticlimax. I was glad a least that a spot like that on the apron was the actual finish, it just needed to be built to better. This felt like they were told save the big match for later but the finality of the finish said different.

Reigns/Owens was easy to watch. Somewhere between good and great. I've totally been defeated in being able to enjoy Reigns. Just total apathy when he comes out now. Actually probably something below that. It's just ugh I'm not gonna get what I want out of a match because he's bombing so hard. And part of it is his performances aren't as good anymore. I like the way he sells like Moops mentioned but I want him to sell more long term so I can get invested in his selling more. He's well and truly fallen into the five moves of doom trap too. I think I mentioned all this after the last show actually. Owens is trash. He's a terrible heel worker and his matches aren't even all that good to make up for it. Like AJ for instance is badly miscast but he does a good job trying to be a heel and works somewhat heelish. Owens is just a flop on every single count. It's a Title match so obviously there was a screwy finish. Brass knucks being just a highspot kinda irks me more than the usual kicking out of stuff.

HOLY FUCK at that Sami Zayn backstage segment. I almost always roll my eyes when people use segments like this to decide that someone is getting buried. Sasha lost clean so she's in the doghouse for instance. But jesus christ this felt like a total hit job on Zayn. Who in fairness should also look at that script and tear it up and protect his character better. I love Sami Zayn about as much as I can love a guy in this current climate but even I was turning against him in this. Ambrose's Number 8 line was kinda cute. He still sucks though.

Neville/Swann, again a good match but it didn't mean anything and I struggled to care. Neville's really strong atm working heel and Swann is good in the ways Moops mentioned too. Crowds still don't give a shit about the Cruiserweights even with 2 IWC guys having a good match. Nobody watches 205 Live either. They did this match on 205 a few weeks ago which I watched yesterday and Neville won with the same superplex spot they did here and it got no reaction. Granted Swann kicked out way too soon but that should have been a huge pop. Neville's submission is cool. I wonder if Gran Metalik can learn where the hard cam is in time for Mania.

Cena/AJ was borderline great. Here and Summerslam they're working a match I don't like but it's been a good enough version of a match I don't like that I've enjoyed it. The kickouts are what they are. Just accepting it isn't valid but I was content just accepting them here because I was enjoying everything else about the match. This was Cena's best performance in years. Lots of great subtle selling touches. AJ would be so much better working babyface but he's still good. This is the match you kick out of finishers in but they've established it as something they do in every single match of any significance that it doesn't cut it here anymore and so they have to go a step further. At least they built upwards to what the finish was rather than peaking earlier on. Cena's reaction to winning was great. Charles Robinson ftw.

Rumble match was easy to sit through and had good moments. It's always like that though. It's impossible for it to be hard to watch for the bulk of the hour and not have anything to pop for. But that's kinda the very least you take from a Rumble match and there wasn't a whole lot else. I enjoyed watching the match but looking back on it's hard to think of too many reasons why. Dillinger at 10 was cool more so because WWE actually got something right in paying the fans some lip service than because Tye is all that good. I'm really struggling to think of guys who are better for the match. Jericho was in forever but did nothing and they never really played up him cowaring on the outside. He actually looked like he'd hurt his leg on a spot with Corbin and was playing it up more so than planned but idk. Likewise Zayn. I mean there were very few actual spots. Corbin eliminating Strowman was cool but then he did nothing else. Brock's rampage was cool. Ellsworth's elimination was nuts. Henry cameo was cool. I was getting annoyed at the camera cutting away from everyone running down the massive isle but apparently a bunch of guys got on a cart which is pretty hilarious. Gallagher's cameo was cool. His elimination gave me a fit of giggles. Goldberg was great but I wished he'd cleaned house more. Harper turning on Bray was cool. Undertaker throwing short jabs at everyone was awesome. Reigns coming out at 30 was such a debbie downer. I was expecting Joe or Balor. I think most people expect something at 30. Finish wasn't hot at all. The more I think about the match the lower I go on it.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@seabs with that Goldberg/Lesnar AND Taker positivity :drose


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Giving Cena "record equalling" 16th title reign that'll end two weeks after :vince2

Giving Reigns two feuds in one night and the most anti-climactic #30 since Big Show in '09 :vince3 (EDIT: I forgot Rey in '14)

Still trying to make Orton happen in 2017 :vince5

I'm still in the initial "highly negative" reaction phase and it's largely down to the so-called surprise entrants. The pale Mary Poppins guy was fine (if only for his elimination where he brilliantly ignored a safe landing to continue clutching his umbrella) & despite never seeing Tye Dillinger in my life, I knew his TEN TEN gimmick so that made sense. Well..it didn't kayfabe wise, but you understand. But the rest, I just..ugh. 

Is it my fault for getting hyped we may see someone big or WWEs? Lawler & Booker T after all were hyping up how good the surprise entrants are these days, and how they feed off the uncertainty of the guys in the ring who "weren't expecting it". Well yeah, I'm sure Lesnar was quaking in his boots when Enzo showed up. Roided Kevin Hart has been completely wasted since being called up so had no point being in the Rumble and Mark Henry I swear to God I thought he'd retired three times by now. They even removed Tyler Bate from the equation to make way for one of these chumps. 

I was expecting Joe or Balor as #30 , but Reigns as he so often does, took all the energy out of body. It was at that point I knew the Orton rumours were true. I like Orton but damn, do they like pushing him back to the main event only to strip away all personality again and again. If Joe debuted 30 and won to go on and face Cena at Mania I'd probably be very high on it right now, so this may be a fickle conclusion from me that I come away deflated and remembering why I don't bother with the product much anymore.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

haribo said:


> Giving Reigns two feuds in one night and the most anti-climactic #30 since Big Show in '09 :vince3


Tbf I think Mysterio in 2014 might have been worse than that. :lol Poor guy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Owens/Reigns - *** - Some good stuff in this match but never got to being great. Liked the build up of the stacked chairs spot to later on it being used near the end. Frog splash table spot was cool as well - Jericho throwing down the brass knuckles was a cool spot as well. A lot of good spots that were utilized very well, but that's about it tbh. Between those spots, the match would get boring. The best Reigns/Owens match easily, and probably Reigns' best match since his last match with Styles, but not great.

Styles/Cena - ***3/4 - Great wrestling throughout most of the match, then devolves into becoming a finisher fest. Cena I think kicked out of three finishers by my count - two Styles clashes and a phenomenal forearm. This is the case with all of Cena's big matches though, and same thing for Reigns as well when it's just a normal match. Still, the wrestling and action before all that brought this match up and as a whole I did really enjoy this match.

Royal Rumble - This was kind of like the Owens/Reigns match... a lot of nothing going on in between some of the bigger moments. Strowman dominating was great, the Ellsworth and Ambrose spot was funny, Lesnar dominating was great, Goldberg eliminating Lesnar like he did played well into the story... but then things kind of fall apart from there. Taker has a great staredown with Goldberg but they don't really do much. Taker then shortly after a spear gets right up and eliminates Goldberg. Then we get Reigns coming in to try and start a Taker/Reigns Mania program that very few people even want to see... especially when Taker and Cena should both be wrestling at the show. Orton wins which is unspectacular, and now Mania is looking even worse coming out of the Rumble than it did going in. It was a solid Rumble all around but the last 5-10 minutes or so were pretty bad. 

Didn't really care/pay much attention to the rest of the matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lost in the madness of last night, Gallows & Anderson FINALLY won the tag titles. Shame that no one will ever remember it happening. :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I started tuning into the Rumble from Swann/Neville. It was a solid match but can't say I really cared much about it tbh. ****1/2?*

I actually liked Cena/Styles and thought this was better than their match at Summerslam. Cena busting out a code red was unexpected. AJ sold it like a mofo. Really liked the avalanche AA as well. Oh and the way Cena rolled over into the last AA was pretty neat as well and made John boy look like he got some skill (not saying he isn't skilled, cause Cena can be GOAT when he wants to. I wouldn't call it a finisher fest tbh. Quite frankly, I felt like it resembled a main event NJPW match :draper2

I'm throwing* ****1/4* snowflakes at it and it is a MOTYC imo. Then again, I haven't seen WK 11 yet to know what a MOTYC is in 2017. But I really enjoyed it and AJ still the GOAT right now. Can't say I agree with Cena going over though but it's WWE, I really don't care about this company anymore. 

As for the Rumble :lmao

At one point I really though Braun was gonna break Kane's..I mean....Roman's record. Also, WWE really missed a huge opportunity with Elsworth. He could have gone Santino 2011 (or was it 2012?) on us. I don't know if you guys remember that one year Santino almost won the Rumble and damn near blew the roof off the place. Huge mistake on WWE's end for not putting some respeck on Elsworth's name.

Goldberg making Lesnar his bitch again was entertaining but man I'm really starting to feel sorry for Lesnar at this point :mj2

The final four was really an uninteresting choice and as far as the winner goes I'm not sure if I even want to watch Mania this year. It's amazing how WWE just can't hold my interest anymore despite having guys such as Ambrose, Styles, Owens, Rollins and Zayn on their roster. It really says a lot about them. The Rumble match was one of the least inspiring Rumbles within recent years. There weren't any big surprises that usually make the least watchable somewhat interesting. Absolute garbage. Once it hit the half way mark, I honestly stopped. Maybe Style's heart-stopping debut last year made me go in with high expectations but I came out of this not giving two fucks about Raw the next day or Mania. ***

I really hope we aren't getting Cena/Orton for Mania :mj2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

seabs said:


> *
> 
> Reigns/Owens was easy to watch. Somewhere between good and great. I've totally been defeated in being able to enjoy Reigns. Just total apathy when he comes out now. Actually probably something below that. It's just ugh I'm not gonna get what I want out of a match because he's bombing so hard. And part of it is his performances aren't as good anymore. I like the way he sells like Moops mentioned but I want him to sell more long term so I can get invested in his selling more. He's well and truly fallen into the five moves of doom trap too. I think I mentioned all this after the last show actually. Owens is trash. He's a terrible heel worker and his matches aren't even all that good to make up for it. Like AJ for instance is badly miscast but he does a good job trying to be a heel and works somewhat heelish. Owens is just a flop on every single count. It's a Title match so obviously there was a screwy finish. Brass knucks being just a highspot kinda irks me more than the usual kicking out of stuff.
> 
> Rumble match was easy to sit through and had good moments. It's always like that though. It's impossible for it to be hard to watch for the bulk of the hour and not have anything to pop for. But that's kinda the very least you take from a Rumble match and there wasn't a whole lot else. I enjoyed watching the match but looking back on it's hard to think of too many reasons why. Dillinger at 10 was cool more so because WWE actually got something right in paying the fans some lip service than because Tye is all that good. I'm really struggling to think of guys who are better for the match. Jericho was in forever but did nothing and they never really played up him cowaring on the outside. He actually looked like he'd hurt his leg on a spot with Corbin and was playing it up more so than planned but idk. Likewise Zayn. I mean there were very few actual spots. Corbin eliminating Strowman was cool but then he did nothing else. Brock's rampage was cool. Ellsworth's elimination was nuts. Henry cameo was cool. I was getting annoyed at the camera cutting away from everyone running down the massive isle but apparently a bunch of guys got on a cart which is pretty hilarious. Gallagher's cameo was cool. His elimination gave me a fit of giggles. Goldberg was great but I wished he'd cleaned house more. Harper turning on Bray was cool. Undertaker throwing short jabs at everyone was awesome. Reigns coming out at 30 was such a debbie downer. I was expecting Joe or Balor. I think most people expect something at 30. Finish wasn't hot at all. The more I think about the match the lower I go on it.*


I think you summed up my thoughts on Reigns and Owens as workers these days. Reigns, along with Owens, since this program started has gotten into the finisher spamming, no-selling stuff and it's taking away from what he is as a performer. He made so many strides and became a legitimately good worker, and is especially GREAT working as a bully/heelish on his opponents like he did against Balor, Rollins and Styles earlier in the year. His program with Owens has featured virtually no selling, spamming the superman punch and spear attempts with a fuckload of clotheslines and punches in between. Kevin Owens... this guy has just been awful as champion in regards of his in-ring work. For someone like Owens to have his best matches in the past 6 months be two walking brawls with Rollins and Reigns is such a disappointment. The chunk of Owens in-ring work has really fucking sucked for a while now but a lot of people on another board I post on cling to his reputation and act like it's been amazing work. He's been extremely underwhelming.

I'm separating the Rumble into three sections:

- First half featuring Strowman dominance, which was GREAT.
- Middle portion featuring the ring filling up and NOTHING happening.
- Final portion from Harper's entrance, which started well and had good story advancement with The Wyatts, but was then ruined by the part-timers making the full-time roster look like a bunch of geeks and was capped off with the disappointment of Roman Reigns being #30 .

I just... ugh. I'll raise my rating up from a ** to a **1/2 because the first half until Strowman's elimination was really good. It's such a shame that guys like Ambrose, Rusev, Harper, Miz and Corbin were eliminated like a bunch of nobodies, especially considering the story Harper is a part of and how they've built Ambrose, Miz and Corbin recently, especially Corbin eliminating Strowman earlier in the match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Tbf I think Mysterio in 2014 might have been worse than that. :lol Poor guy.


....BUT AT LEAST Mysterio was advertised to be in the Rumble while D-Bry never actually was. This was just complete deflation cause I'm pretty sure Reigns wasn't advertised to be in the Rumble (why would he, he was in the fucking Title match AND LOST), and we were all expecting a better and legit surprising #30 than him.

Btw, speaking as an Owens fan, I have to agree w/ @seabs. The guy does nothing to play a good babyface. I wouldn't go out of my way to say he's trash, that feels a little harsh, but I see where you're coming from. He just pops the crowd consistently. Sure, he will sometimes mock his opponent and cheat, perks of which made me love Kevin then Steen as a heel in the indies (watch his AWESOME match w/AJ Styles at House Of Hardcore to know an example of what I'm talking about), but often, he will just do flippy shit that excites the crowd. In what world is the Cannonball a heel move? In what world is a random as fuck Frog Splash through a table a heel move? If those had some kind of disrespectful meaning, they would've had some weight to them at all, but not even that. Owens should just turn face. Especially considering how over he is, usually getting one of the bigger pops in a PPV and all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, the Joe/Nakamura cage match was _not_ good. Everything was weirdly bland. There was a sunset flip top rope powerbomb near the end, and considering who Joe is, it should've felt like a bomb went off. It just felt like nothing. Nakamura's comebacks (especially the teased/unsuccessful ones) are really poor.



I should mention I'm really glad they fixed the network's chapter selection stuff. They start at entrances now and aren't dumb enough to spoil matches any more.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Owens vs. Strowman for the belt tonight! :mark:

Totally expect Roman to get involved... but still looking forward to seeing more BRAUN.

EDIT: Damn, Zayn beats Jericho clean as whistle! Really good mach too. *** 1/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I hope Strowman crushes Owens and takes the title but I know better than that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JOE THE DESTROYER! :woo

My god that was a nice swerve. Rollins vs. Joe at presumably Fastlane could be barnurner.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

That final segment was fucking cool.

Nice debut for Joe, hope he destroys a few dudes from here until Fastlane where he hopefully faces Seth and loses as narrowly as possible.

Then again, we got one cool, relevant moment out of Raw, so the next one is probably a few months away, and so on and so on :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Martins said:


> Then again, we got one cool, relevant moment out of Raw


Hey now, Sami Zayn got a clean win over Jericho too. :cudi


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


> Hey now, Sami Zayn got a clean win over Jericho too. :cudi


Get yer positivity outta my fuckin' face, Corey :arn

Hadn't watched the match as I missed most of Raw, but I did now. Fun stuff :hunter Zayn and Strowman are definitely the two guys I most care about watching on Raw by far right now. Still amazes me that I can say this about Strowman because I spent MONTHS shitting on him, but the guy sure is proving me wrong. He gets booked a hell of a lot better than just about anyone else too, but he actually noticeably improves on a regular basis and it becomes a joy to watch this big motherfucker tearing just about everyone a new asshole. I'd rather it not be our Universal Champion Kevin Owens, but if it wasn't him it'd be Roman again, so eh :side: 

I'd actually be down with Zayn/Strowman having this on/off deal sort of like Zayn had with Owens, too; in my dreams Zayn would eventually reach the top by managing to finally one-up the big man one way or the other, but I don't wanna project too much. For now he got a clean win on Jericho in a good match, so at least I'm happy 'bout that


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What's even more amazing with Strowman is that he's showing the potential that this company has when they actually try make a new star/main eventer organically and get behind them. Not someone that the wrestling world already knows about and they just have to put him on screen, ya know? He's literally like the _only_ recent guy that they've signed or has came out of NXT that's made it big on the main roster with no other major indy followings or other worldwide exposure. 

That's such a short list too. Strowman and Reigns are at the top. Jury will be out on Dillinger soon. I imagine The Revival will do great on the main roster but who knows.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. That guy who got to wrap up Sasha Banks leg, best job in the world!

So… they didn’t debut Samoa Joe at the Rumble but they did debut him on Raw during an anticipated showdown we’ve been waiting for for MONTHS even though he has NOTHING to do with this storyline whatsoever? Why would Joe side with The Authority? Why are they dragging this story out so fucking much? Is it just to give the finger to the fans and nothing more? I do sometimes wonder.

Man I do love this new supercharged Seth Rollins, though. They may have booked him super crappily for like the last six months but he’s still rocking somehow. It may be a little extreme for Rollins to threaten Steph’s kids though but I’m sure he was just trying to get a rise rather than stating intent. I also like stories that blur the lines between kayfabe and reality, that the difference in ring and NXT media personas of Triple H are actually in continuity of one another, two sides of the same coin.

Wow WWE actually proved me wrong, that Universal Title match was designed to set up a feud between Strowman and Owens AND Reigns and not just Strowman and Reigns? Oh. I guess that makes sense of things, then. It feels good to admit I was wrong about WWE for once. Talking about the match that came out of this, it was actually pretty good. Reading between the lines though, I wasn’t sure what to take from all this. Owens went into this match banged up but he was still able to take it Strowman. A few weeks ago Strowman seemed unstoppable and untouchable, I can’t tell if this is them trying to rebuild Owens after they completely took him apart during his Universal Title run, which may explain some of the brutal bumps from the Rumble, ready for him to be separated from the title and from the whole JeriKO business or if they have something planned with Strowman instead. I like what they did with Reigns in this scenario, too. I know why they did what they did but in kayfabe having Reigns come out all action in the name of payback was badass. 

So Strowman, Reigns and Owens getting a Triple Threat at Fastlane?

Why does Bayley think she gets another shot at the Title? I mean we know she probably will get one as WWE likes to throw title shots at the same person about 500 times in a row, regardless of if they lose every single time but in kayfabe Charlotte destroyed Bayley at the Rumble to the point where that should be classed as done and finished. I guess the only reason it isn’t is they gave Bayley so many clean wins over Charlotte in non title opportunities on Raw leading into the Rumble… for some reason. I guess Charlotte, in kayfabe, only turns up for PPV matches. That might explain why she constantly lost her title on Raw only to win it back a couple of weeks later at the PPV to lose it again the next night on Raw. Or it is just shit booking from WWE.

Gallows and Anderson look damn good with those Raw Tag Titles over their shoulder, just a shame they destroyed all the aura they could have had. I guess now is time to rebuild but it would have made more sense to just do this from the start..? WWE, lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, the Joe/Nakamura cage match was _not_ good. Everything was weirdly bland. There was a sunset flip top rope powerbomb near the end, and considering who Joe is, it should've felt like a bomb went off. It just felt like nothing. Nakamura's comebacks (especially the teased/unsuccessful ones) are really poor.
> 
> 
> 
> I should mention I'm really glad they fixed the network's chapter selection stuff. They start at entrances now and aren't dumb enough to spoil matches any more.


You're actually watching NXT stuff? Cool. If I were you, I'd get on watching ALL of their live special PPV stuff (order goes Arrival > Takeover > Fatal 4-Way > R-Evolution > Rival > Unstoppable > Brooklyn > Respect > London > Dallas > The End > Brooklyn II > Toronto > the most recent, San Antonio). Trust me, you're missing out on a ton of good shit.

Though, of all that good shit you're missing out, the Joe/Nakamura feud is, sadly, not quite it. One very good match at Brooklyn and the rest isn't all that much.

EDIT: I gave Cena/Styles another shot, and it actually resonated w/me much better this time. I still wouldn't call it better than 'good', as to me, the finisher spamming and (sometimes) random move throwing still feels problematic, not to mention Cena's complete no-sell of the Styles Clash at the end irks the shit out of me. THAT BEING SAID, such no-sell is honestly the only poor bit of selling to be found, unlike in SummerSlam where it'd just be SPOTnosellSPOTnosell continuously. The finishers, besides that one case, are actually given time to be soaked in in terms of selling and letting the audience breathe, and the top rope AA, while at this point a glorified signature move, still provided that nice "can Cena truly put Styles away" moment.... and I'll be damned if it didn't actually get me for a split second there. So yeah. It's not my kind of match, but I've grown to somewhat like it regardless, and while I'll never masturbate for it the way everybody seems to, it's not another mindless spotfest - it actually tries to tell a story, and a good one at that.

And I gotta say, while I was afraid they were gonna go full Bangle w/those submission finisher counters, Cena turning into a Figure Four and them countering OTHER submissions besides their finishers made it a lot better for me. I kinda hate it when submission finishers are countered like nothing, those should be protected to all ends. Btw, the hilarity of CENA DOING A FIGURE FOUR was also big. Not quite as big as the Canadian Destroyer, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> You're actually watching NXT stuff? Cool. If I were you, I'd get on watching ALL of their live special PPV stuff (order goes Arrival > Takeover > Fatal 4-Way > R-Evolution > Rival > Unstoppable > Brooklyn > Respect > London > Dallas > The End > Brooklyn II > Toronto > the most recent, San Antonio). Trust me, you're missing out on a ton of good shit.


Yeah I plan to get through all of it. At least skim through each show to see what I care to watch (which is usually everything at first anyway since I like watching wrestlers I've never seen before). I've started from this year just b/c I'd like to try to sort of keep up with current wrestling (if all goes well I'll watch Japan/Mexico/indies too), partly because it's fun and partly because stuff comes online then gets deleted forever a year later and i never get to see it. I would like to continue the 2013-current WWE catch up in particular though. I'll just go through every show chronologically and, again, skip around to watch something whenever someone I like turns up. I think I'm up to April 2013? I hate that it takes 30 days for them to put Raw and SD on the network though. Blah. I'll probably torrent each week.

Please someone tell me 2013 NXT is actually on the network now. :/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah I plan to get through all of it. At least skim through each show to see what I care to watch (which is usually everything at first anyway since I like watching wrestlers I've never seen before). I've started from this year just b/c I'd like to try to sort of keep up with current wrestling (if all goes well I'll watch Japan/Mexico/indies too), partly because it's fun and partly because stuff comes online then gets deleted forever a year later and i never get to see it. I would like to continue the 2013-current WWE catch up in particular though. I'll just go through every show chronologically and, again, skip around to watch something whenever someone I like turns up. I think I'm up to April 2013? I hate that it takes 30 days for them to put Raw and SD on the network though. Blah. I'll probably torrent each week.
> 
> Please someone tell me 2013 NXT is actually on the network now. :/


To be fair, you don't actually need to watch the weekly NXT shows to know the feuds heading into the PPV's. Partly because the build up through the weekly shows isn't the best p), but also because the bigger feuds are always explained in the show.

But I still get your point. Have you seen Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber from 2013? One of those sucks balls, the other.... is actually an okay show from memory. Shield vs Justice League is totally awesome and one of the most underrated gems of DA SHIELD.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> To be fair, you don't actually need to watch the weekly NXT shows to know the feuds heading into the PPV's. Partly because the build up through the weekly shows isn't the best p), but also because the bigger feuds are always explained in the show.
> 
> But I still get your point. Have you seen Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber from 2013? One of those sucks balls, the other.... is actually an okay show from memory. Shield vs Justice League is totally awesome and one of the most underrated gems of DA SHIELD.


I actually thought during the Rumble this year whether I'd actually seen the 2013 one. I definitely have, but I couldn't tell you anything about it. I vaguely remember Show/Del Rio. EC I watched live that year but I was so annoyed at Mark Henry losing the chamber that I enjoyed the rest of the show less. Probably the last time a result will bother me enough to affect my enjoyment that much in my life. Anyway I've gone back and watched some of the show and yeah the Shield tag is excellent. Was pretty sure I wrote something about it but I can't find evidence I ever did. I might need to start another blog to keep my garbage together. I thought the Shield had by far the MOTN at Mania that year too. That show I actually did a write up on, and I can find PROOF!: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/61964010-post565.html


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I actually thought during the Rumble this year whether I'd actually seen the 2013 one. I definitely have, but I couldn't tell you anything about it. I vaguely remember Show/Del Rio. EC I watched live that year but I was so annoyed at Mark Henry losing the chamber that I enjoyed the rest of the show less. Probably the last time a result will bother me enough to affect my enjoyment that much in my life. Anyway I've gone back and watched some of the show and yeah the Shield tag is excellent. Was pretty sure I wrote something about it but I can't find evidence I ever did. I might need to start another blog to keep my garbage together. I thought the Shield had by far the MOTN at Mania that year too. That show I actually did a write up on, and I can find PROOF!: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/61964010-post565.html


Trust me: it's not a good show. Though I love your trashing of shit matches, so I'd love to see you do a write up on it for sick pleasure. ADR/Show is, in fact, very forgettable (not even a quarter of the quality of their SD match a few weeks prior). Punk/Rock (that's not the music genre, that's CM Punk vs The Rock) was putrid garbage. Boring, sloppy, and misguidedly booked beyond belief. What you thought of the 2010 Edge/Jericho matches (which I might be true, but I haven't seen them in years) is what I think of that match. The RR match was okay but not great. The show was terrible.

The Chamber PPV is pretty okay. Besides the Shield tag, Cesaro/Miz was pretty good, Rock/Punk II was WAAAAAYYYYYYY better than the Rumble trash, and the Chamber was a little dull but had its moments as well. One of the few decent PPV's that year, alongside Payback, MITB, SummerSlam (one of the greatest PPV's ever), and I guess WrestleMania.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am I seeing right? @Yeah1993 didn't watch NXT when it was at its best?:krillin

Here's when NXT started falling apart for me. Now, a few years ago we were all saying that NXT was no longer a developmental. It felt like a third, separate brand with its own unique identity. The problem now is that WWE became of aware of this. What was once a subtle point noted by fans became marketing hype for WWE. Triple H kept promoting it as "more than just a developmental" and that it is "its own brand". WWE became so aware of how awesome NXT was that it was just destined to fail.


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2017
Charlotte/Baily - ***
Owens/Reigns - ****
Neville/Swann - **
AJ/Cena - ***1/2
Rumble '17 - **1/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I can watch Ambrose and Styles wrestle forever. What a great, great match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ambrose vs. Styles - *** 1/2 (The usual great chemistry between the two. I didn't really care about the match at first because they've ran it so many times, but they reeled me in with the last 10 minutes or so. Great action and Dean worked hard. Chaotic ending was fun)

Orton pinning Cena clean in the tag match was pretty cool along with Harper's face (?) turn that adds some mystery to the whole Wyatts situation. Naomi looked GREAT in the ladies tag. No clue what they were trying to do with American Alpha's open challenge. I thought for a second we might see a Revival debut since we saw on Joe on Monday, but no dice. Glad to see the Usos back and healthy though. Just give me that match at Mania. Rest of the squads don't need to be there.

The fact that this is happening is ridiculous too. I'm not sure if this company just doesn't think sometimes or what. This is supposed to be our Wrestlemania main event. :lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/826621457836838912


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The fact that it's happening next week pretty much makes it a lock that Cena is dropping the title in the Chamber imo


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> The fact that it's happening next week pretty much makes it a lock that Cena is dropping the title in the Chamber imo


Yeah, exactly my point. At least _try_ and make things a little less obvious. Could've waited to run the match the week after the Chamber.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

News has been breaking all day that Rollins re-injured his knee on RAW. Some reports saying a torn MCL which gives him a small chance of being ready by Mania (out for 8 weeks would be the diagnosis), but it doesn't look good. 

No idea what they're gonna do if they have to totally switch plans again. I'd personally like to see Joe vs. Reigns but that doesn't seem likely with Taker in the picture. Would be really shitty if Seth misses his 2nd straight Mania.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Honestly, part of me hopes that they do change plans, with or without Rollins. According to Dave boy, this is the planned card for WM:



Spoiler: WM



- Goldberg vs. Brock III, for the Universal Title
- Wyatt vs. Orton, for the WWE Title
- Taker vs. Reigns
- HHH vs. Rollins (may not happen)
- Cena & Nikki vs. Miz & Maryse
- Show vs. Shaq
- Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Bayley vs. Nia
- Styles vs. Shane (not confirmed)
- Ambrose involved in a multi-man affair; possibly in pre-show


Cal is fucking right. Vince McMahon is BRAIN DAMAGED.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Does anyone have a list of top 10 NXT matches from before 2016?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Daniel97 said:


> Does anyone have a list of top 10 NXT matches from before 2016?


Now, I haven't seen EVERYTHING ever, but this is a pretty good idea to give you off the top of my head:

01. Zayn/Cesaro, Arrival, ****3/4
02. Neville/Zayn, R-Evolution, ****1/2
03. Sasha/Bayley, Brooklyn I, ****1/2
04. Sasha/Becky, Unstoppable, ****1/4
05. Regal/Ohno, April 2013, ****1/4
06. Neville/Zayn/Kidd/Breeze, ****1/4
07. Zayn/Cesaro, 2 Out Of 3 Falls, ****1/4
08. Regal/Cesaro, December 2013, ****
09. Zayn/Breeze, Takeover I, ****
10. Zayn/Swagger, Summer 2013, ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Honestly, part of me hopes that they do change plans, with or without Rollins. According to Dave boy, this is the planned card for WM:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I told ya! Was actually reading through my WM 32 ramble the other night cos I had legit forgot what happened :lmao. The constant BRAIN DAMAGE made me laugh .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> I told ya! Was actually reading through my WM 32 ramble the other night cos I had legit forgot what happened :lmao. The constant BRAIN DAMAGE made me laugh .


Nowadays it's more sad than funny, tbh. You'd look at the WWE's roster and you'd think they'd put on some New Japan level shit every week. Instead, they just fumble and fumble so hilariously much that it's just pathetic.

Seriously, when AJ Styles vs. Shane McMahon is the best looking match in the card of WRESTLEFUCKINGMANIA, you've got yourself a serious problem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs. Sting (Strap Match) (WCW Superbrawl III)*

People on here know how much of a Sting and Vader mark I am, and I was browsing through 1993 and had the urge to revisit this classic match again. Of course, these two already had history before this match. In 1992 they had two other wonderful matches at Great American Bash and at Starrcade. People remember the build up for the infamous 'White Castle Of Fear' video:






Which was a rather wacky element to an other wise, strong rivalry. In the run up to Superbrawl, Sting and Vader both did excellent, individual promos hyping the match up and were involved in matches that further built towards the PPV. There was a Barry Windham & Vader vs. Sting & Dustin Rhodes match on Saturday Night, that resulted in Windham holding Sting, whilst Vader whipped him with the strap, before the babyfaces made the save;










Sting got his revenge the week later when he faced Windham and he used the strap to hang Barry from the rope, until Vader helped Windham and Sting was alone in the ring with the strap, swinging it around in front of Vader;










Vader had a squash match against Rick Thames on Saturday Night, where Race ended up covering his face with red paint to send a message to Sting, whilst Vader held the strap that would be used;










Now, onto the match.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we go.

*'LIGHTS OUT, LEATHER STRAP MATCH – NOT SANCTIONED'*

Vader, the man, the heavyweight champion, is first out. With Harley Race of course and dressed in a white robe










Sting is out next, as energetic as always and gets a massive pop from the crowd. He and Vader square off and start jawing at each other as the ref tries to separate them. Harley has the strap and the ref finally ties them both together. 

Already you can feel the intensity here and just how bad Vader was just by the look he gives Sting.

Sting starts out cautiously, moving around and Vader slowly stalks him. They have a mini tug of war which Vader ends up winning and throwing Sting to the mat. Vader's dominance already in effect here. Once again, they have a tug of war and again, Vader throws Sting down with the strap. Vader drags Sting ever closer to him with the strap and they end up face to face, before Vader gives the Stinger a big clothesline










Vader in control early as he delivers some big elbows to Sting. He starts whipping Sting's back with the strap before getting on the turnbuckle for a big splash. Sting then tries to mount a comeback as he gets up and yanks the strap under Vader's legs (Watch the family jewel, now). Crowd pop big for this as you'd expect. Sting follows this up by running at Vader with some right hooks to the head and finally knocking the big man down. Sting gets onto the turnbuckle but Vader gets up, so Sting smacks him in the face with a big kick followed by a big clothesline

Now the Stinger is in control and he has Vader on the mat. He continues to use the ariel offense as he delivers not one, but TWO big splashes. Crowd is going fucking NUTS for Sting. He untangles the strap from Vader and 

*IT'S PAYBACK TIME, BITCH*

Sting starts whipping the back of Vader and the crowd are LOVING this, esp one of Sting's biggest fans, I'm sure


















He continues to whip Vader big style with the strap, Harley gets on the apron, and Sting clumps him as well with the strap for his troubles. Big Van Vader is in trouble here as Sting is fully in control and is dominating the big man. Vader ends up rolling out the ring as Harley recovers and tries to get Vader going again. Sting then goes to the outside, Vader gets up, but Sting has the strap in between him and drags Vader right into the post, TWICE.










At this point, Vader's back is RED AS FUCK (A little help from Race, there :side: ). Sting gets him up and drags him to a post and to mark that is one down (remember, you have to drag your opponent to all four corners, and touch the corners to win). Sting PICKS UP VADER and slams him to the mat with a big powerslam. Sting is the babyface in this, but he has the physical power to still bring it to Vader. 

Sting starts dragging Vader around to another corner, that's TWO now. He tries to drag Vader to a third, but Vader sends him into the guardrail










I sense this is where Vader regains control. Plus, those two corners mean nothing now as you have to touch all four corners in one successive motion. Sting gets up thou8gh and drags Vader back into the ring and gives Vader a Fireman's carry back drop. Sting runs at Vader but is met with a BIG Vader body bounce, not once, but twice. Vader kicks him in the gut and shouts 'POWERBOMB'. Oh oh, Sting is in trouble here. But Sting blacks it and gives Vader a back drop. Sting is still bringing it here, but ends up making his first real mistake too. He goes to the top turnbuckle again, where he's already been successful, and tries another splash, but Vader moves out the way this time and Sting goes face first onto the mat.

Now this is surely where Vader has enough of this.

He goes off the ropes and delivers his own big splash to Sting, before pancaking him with big punches to the face. We all know you DON'T want to get caught taking any of those from Vader. Crowd is cheering Sting on and willing him on, but Vader squashes that enthusiasm as he picks Sting up and plants him down with a back drop.

Yeah, this is now Vader's yard.

He gets on the turnbuckle and gives Sting his Vaderbomb, as Harley starts taunting him with “How do you like that, Sting?”.










Sting is now in real trouble as Vader starts whipping him again with the strap, the sound effects perfectly demonstrating the pain and anguish he's currently in. This is not where he wants to be . Vader picks Sting up again, gets on the turnbuckle, and delivers a FUCKING BACK BODY DROP










Fuuuuuuuuuuck, Sting is in deep, deep shit atm. Sting is helpless now as Vader drags him to his first corner spot, that's one down. He drags him to another, that's two, only another two to go and this thing is over. Sting is desperately trying to stop this and is grabbing the strap as tight as he can. Just as Vader is close to the third corner, Sting digs deep and kicks Vader right in the mush. Sting is still in trouble, but at least he's broken up the corners.

Vader is pissed and goes back to the turnbuckle and goes for another Vaderbomb. Ohhhhhhhhh shit. He goes for it, but Sting gets some resilience, and moves out of the way. Sting needs to dig deep again here as this could be his moment. Crowd once again go FUCKING NUTS. Vader though gets up and gets back onto the top turnbuckle, he's either supremely or supremely confident. Just as he gets up there though, Sting yanks hard on the strap and it plants Vader down on his, erm, family jewels.

'Don't rub 'em Son, count 'em'

Now this is where Sting can get his shit going again. Vader manages to get up and back onto the top turnbuckle, but Sting again yanks on the strap, only this time it sends Vader over and flying into the ring










Both men and down and, I'd imagine, fucked at what they have been through so far TBH. Vader is gets up on his knees and powders Sting with some of his famous club right hands. Sting blocks on of them and whacks Vader back with a big punch of his own. I love Sting's jumping punches here, as he shows how fucked he is, but he's still trying and fighting. Vader picks him up again though and plants him onto the top turnbuckle. He gives Sting a SUPERPLEX










Sting is dead on the mat as Vader starts going for the four corners again. He gets one. Vader screams “IT'S OVER” as he gets two. He goes for the third, and gets it. ONE MORE AND THIS ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS OVER. He tries to drag Sting over to the fourth, but Sting wraps his legs around the ropes and clings on for dear life

:jericho2

He gives Vader one hell of a big boot, knocking the big man onto the mat. Once again, as much as anything, Sting has saved the match and has the chance of a comeback here. Don't speak so soon though as Vader gets Sting in the corner

:hutz *YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE IN A RING CORNER WITH VADER FACING YOU*

Vader pancakes him with big ass clubs to the head










Big Van Vader just wants to fucking KILL this man. Sting is BUSTED OPEN as Vader continues to destroy him. But Sting gets some energy from somewhere and plants Vader with a CAPULO KICK to the head










*COME ON STINGER*

Fantastic desperation move by Sting to try and get this monster off of him. Vader is still back to his feet, like some fucking horror movie villain though. Sting plants him with some rights and takes him to










Crowd are going nuts as this is Sting's big chance to finally take over. He nails Vader with a DDT. He puts Vader into the corner and starts giving Vader some fucking PAYBACK with some right hooks. I just love Sting's facial expressions here, he perfectly shows the agony and madness he was feeling at Vader. His face is bleeding and he's just pounding on Vader and laying into him with all his frustrations.










STING HAS FUCKING SNAPPED as he's just killing Vader with punch after punch. He rips Vader's mask off, picks him up off his back and touches one of the corners. But as he does that, Vader's foot catches the ref and knocks him down.

*REF BUMP*

Sting goes onto to touch THREE corners as Vader's ear is spouting blood heavily at this point. Sting goes for the final corner, but trips over the ref and just misses the corner with his hand. FUCK SAKE. Vader is a BLOODY MESS atm. Ref is back up, but so is Vader and he flies off the ropes and onto Sting. Vader ties Sting's feet up with the strap and drags him into the corner foe ONE. Then to the other corner for TWO. Sting is down and out and is being dragged around like a lifeless body at this point. Vader drags him to a third turnbuckle for a THREE. 

Just one more :hutz

Sting clings onto the ropes for dear life to stop Vader dragging him to that fourth corner. He kicks Vader back to try and get out of this, but the power of the kick sends Vader back and right in the corner for the win. Man, Vader really is a BLOODY MESS










Sting gets the strap and starts whipping Vader out of the ring.

--------------------------------------------------------

Well, where does one start with this one? IT'S A FUCKING WAR, A FUCKING WAR. Violent, destructive, monstrous. Vader is just a non stop killing machine who has no mercy or remorse and Sting plays the perfect babyface, timing his hope spots and comebacks to perfection but also showing he can bring the power to Vader when he has to. Still one of the best WCW matches ever and the best match of it's kind. Vader and Sting were always perfect for each other and this match demonstrates this as well as any of their matches. This match shows why I'm such a fan of both too, esp Sting.

Thanks for reading. 

Now *GO AND WATCH THIS SHIT* :cudi​


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

After doing some thought on what match I watched as a kid, I decided to go with one that I have a lot of mixed feelings about even before I watched it again. Next match I am reviewing is Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels from Wrestlemania 21. 

*Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 21*

If people are still wondering why I consider Kurt Angle to be an overrated in ring performer, this match is why. 

So yeah, apparently people loved this match. Meltzer gave it ****3/4, it's considered one of the all time greatest matches on WWE's website (they had a list of the best Wrestlemania matches of all time a few years back, this was number three I think. I don't know if they still have that list or not). And a famous wrestler (ironic considering how I can't remember which one it was that said this, I think it was Arn Anderson but don't quote me on it) even called this the best match he had ever seen at the time. And if he still thinks that now, then fuck him and his knowledge of Pro Wrestling. 

Alright so look, it's not all bad. There's actually some good things about this match. And I mean some REALLY good things. But first lets go over the match. 

So Kurt is the heel and Michaels is the face (although the crowd was pro Angle because well that's just the way things were for an Angle match). It starts out with a slap from Michaels, which Angle responds with by aggressively charging at Michaels by trying to use his mat wrestling skills on Shawn. Okay, I'm supposed to go over the match but I just want to point out this is a really shitty way to start out the match. If some guy slaps you in the face, you kick their ass, especially if you're a heel. What Angle does here feels more like something a face would do, and even then I don't even think a face would do this because it makes no fucking sense.

Anyways, they do a sequence of basic but good chain wrestling moves. Michaels for the most part had the upper hand in this exchange. Angle goes for the angle lock early but Shawn rolls out of it and sends both him and Angle over the top rope and out to the floor with a clothesline. After a sequence of events that included Angle attempting to suplex Michaels into the announcers table, Angle is able to lift Shawn up over his shoulders, making it look like he's about to attempt the Angle slam. And what I'll admit is a pretty cool spot, he does a modified angle slam into the ring post. Angle spends the next several minutes dominating Shawn, hitting a couple belly to belly's and showing off to the crowd. After he and Shawn do a punching exchange, he receives another slap from Shawn and this infuriates Kurt, who fires back with a clothesline. He backs Shawn into the corner and tries to suplex Shawn from the top, but Shawn fights it off and sends Kurt down to the mat. Shawn goes for his elbow drop but misses and lands on his back. Kurt goes for the Angle slam but Shawn reverses it. Kurt charges at Michaels and he gets sent overhead to the outside. Shawn goes on the top rope and hits a cross body to the outside. Michaels goes on the ring apron, but Kurt jumps up and tries to do a german. Michaels low blows him, kicks him into the announcers table and does a springboard crossbody onto Kurt into the announcers table, which doesn't collapse (damn). 

From here on out, it's about 10-15 minutes of some of the most lazy, non-creative displays of pro wrestling you'll ever see. 

Okay so Shawn does his typical comeback routine on Kurt who now has a bloodied mouth. He hits his diving elbow and goes for sweet chin music. Unfortunately for Shawn, Kurt grabs him by the ankle and is able to lock in his submission finisher. Michaels is able to reach the ropes to break up the hold. Kurt goes for the Angle Slam but again Michaels is able to counter out of it. He goes for a roll up pin out of the counter but Angle gets out of it and locks in the submission again. Michaels rolls out however and goes for a pin, which Angle breaks out of. Angle hits the Angle Slam but Shawn kicks out at two. So Kurt decides to go on the turnbuckle and goes for the Moonsault. Michaels is able to roll out of the way. Shawn then climbs up to the top rope, but takes to long to climb up and Angle's able to hit the Angle Slam from the top of the turnbuckle. Michaels kicks out again however. Angle is now frustrated and screaming at Michaels, who then slaps away Angle's hands and hits Sweet Chin Music on Angle. Both men are out for a pro-longed period of time, but eventually Michaels goes for the cover only to get a two count. He tries to get up and walk away but Angle grabs his ankle and this time he's able to keep the Angle lock locked in long enough to force Michaels to tap.

Okay, so, why do I hate this match so much? Well, lets start with the good things. 

For one, this match has Shawn Michaels. Is there anymore that even needs to be said? That's an automatic good thing right there. Okay I guess I should go over the specifics. The selling in this match is absolutely incredible. The way Shawn sold his back and ankle injuries here was off the charts. And Kurt did a pretty good job of selling too. There are some pretty cool spots. It's a shame the announcers table didn't break on the springboard move by Shawn, but either way I still liked the spot. And the first half of this match is actually incredible. The pacing was nearly perfect, I thought both men had their moments, there was a clear and obvious story being told that you could follow and get behind. Some minor weaknesses here and there like the beginning of the match as I pointed out before, but otherwise I found myself REALLY liking the first half of this match. It was at that point that I wondered why I hated this match so much when I watched it again a few years ago.

And then the second half of the match happened. 

After that springboard announcers table spot, the entire match seems to go straight to shit for a variety of reasons. 

For starters, the pacing that was so excellent in the first half of the match is all over the place here. There's a lot of dead moments that just take you out of the match. I'm all for taking in some time to sell damage to a move and really build up an atmosphere, but the selling goes on for WAY too long in some cases. Like when Michaels finally hits the Sweet Chin Music on Kurt. At this point both guys are down, but here it feels like a fucking hour. Shawn stays in dead mode for about a good minute and then finally decides to start crawling over to Angle. If you're going to build up anticipation for an awaited cover, there's a good rule of thumb of how long you wait before you suck the audience away from the moment. I know you're selling damage from earlier in the match, but desperation needs to play a part in your characters strive to win the match. And here it simply doesn't exist. 

Another big problem I have is that it feels like the rolls are reversed here. Normally the face is the one who has the upper hand for the most part while the heel is pulling out little tricks to take advantage. I actually had to look up who was the face and who was the heel going into this match because I was so confused at how they were performing in the ring. But yeah, Kurt was the heel here. And for what ever reason, he was in complete control while Michaels was in constant desperation mode. I'm fine with heels playing that role especially when they're portrayed as being some kind of god-like Wrestler but not when it's supposed to be between two guys who are portrayed as legends in the business. It made you feel as if HBK was the underdog here, when that shouldn't be the case. It's fucking HBK. 

But with the issue I just outlined above being minor, and the previous before that being major, the one that was incredibly annoying about the second half of this match was how lazy the storytelling was here. Don't know what I mean by this? Let me point out a few exchanges. Michaels tries to superkick Angle, Angle grabs his foot and counters with an Ankle Lock. Angle for what ever reason goes for a Moonsault. He misses and Michaels, whose back is in a shit ton of pain at this point, for what ever reason attempts to climb the top rope. He never turns his back so it appears he was going for a moonsault too. Either way, Angle climbs up and does an Angle Slam from the top turnbuckle. Angle picks up Shawn by his head and just yells at Shawn WHILE THEY HAVE A MATCH GOING ON. The result? Shawn catches Angle by surprise and superkicks him. Shawn is trying to walk on but is limping, and Angle who is lying on the ground after taking Sweet Chin Music springs back to life and locks in the Angle Lock and wins the match after a few minutes of keeping the hold on. 

See what I'm getting at here? There is no creativity, no effort, nothing. The last 10 or so minutes of the match can be defined as one guy doing the spot and setting up for the next one. It made what was happening next so easy to predict, and it really hurt the quality of the match as a whole. 

And the thing is, a lot of this was very typical of an Angle match. Uneven pacing, unbalanced storytelling, inability to properly play the heel role, and doing a lot of incredibly pointless shit that doesn't make sense like going for a moonsault on a guy who just kicked out of your finisher. At the very least, we know Shawn isn't like this. So while I don't want to blame Kurt for all of it especially since there were some bad moments on Shawn's end, a lot of what happened here had Kurt Angle written all over it. 

Is the match terrible? No, like I said before the first half of the match is outstanding. Hell, give me the first half of this match and the second half of Austin/Angle from Summerslam 2001 and you've got yourself the first 6 star rated match in WWE history. The story they're telling is clear and they do a great job of sticking to it, the pacing is incredible as is the selling, and both guys have their moment. But as soon as the table spot happens, it's almost as if a completely different match was put in front of us. 

I would say, overall, it deserves a ***1/2 rating. Like I said, it's not terrible by any means but it's most certainly not this legendary match people hype it up to be. And it's a shame, because Shawn Michaels really does give it his all in this match. But it was simply not meant to be. So yeah, I don't necessarily hate it because it's terrible. It's honestly not. I hate it because of how great it could have been. It really could have been one of, if not, the greatest match in WWE's history. And it really started out that way. But I can't stand the way they ended this thing. With something that was built up as something so big and with this being their first ever match against each other, just for them to get so lazy and non-creative and so un-motivating in the last half/third of the match really pisses me off.​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy fuck I've never seen that strap match but it sounds (and looks) incredible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corey said:


> Holy fuck I've never seen that strap match but it sounds (and looks) incredible.


WHAT? 



GO. 





NOW.






WATCH.


Hold on, have you seen any Sting/Vader?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That Sting/Vader match is incredible. I think Cody or Brock put me onto it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Holy fuck I've never seen that strap match but it sounds (and looks) incredible.


:hutz

GET ON YT/NETWORK/ANY-FUCKING-THING AND WATCH IT

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Holy fuck I've never seen that strap match but it sounds (and looks) incredible.


Dude, you've never seen that match? :lmao You're missing out on one of the greatest pro wrestling FIGHTS (not just matches) of all time. GO WATCH IT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hey, at least my review helped someone out

:drose

I'm off to watch Hogan/Tenryu from Dec '91. Was recommended to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hulk Hogan vs. Genichiro Tenryu (SWS 12/12/91)*

This one is from SWS, run by Tenryu, and they put on several cross promotional shows with the WWF during this period.

Hogan is out to his 'Real American' theme and is over with the crowd. The stage for the arena is quite unique, with dragons everywhere and a stage, then some steps, then a walk to the ring










They both start off with a respect handshake. Just also realised, Earl Hebner is the referee for this one lol. Hogan goes right after Tenryu's arm and applies a very nifty armbar










Yup, this is Hogan in Japan, so he's actually wrestling. Tenryu quickly reverses this into a leg hold though. Hogan manages to break the hold by going under the ropes and we're back to even stevens as they both get up. I know most Hogan matches feel big in themselves, but Hogan in Japan adds another element to that at times IMO. They go for a test of strength, which Hogan quickly turns into a leg takedown and applies a sleeper hold,as Tenyru is on the mat. That's two very nifty takedowns Hogan has done.

They both end up in the corner and Tenryu gives Hogan a big chop, which pops the crowd, and Hogan is like “What the fuck” and backs right off. You're messing with a tough S.O.B here Hulk. Slow start continues as Hogan does a 'come on' taunt to Tenryu (sure you wanna do that?). They both quickly try and trade holds and Hogan again takes him down and applies the mat sleeper, but Tenryu escapes and puts on an armbar. They both are up on their feet again and Tenryu gives Hogan another big chop to the chest.

You hear Hogan go “What's wrong with this guy, huh?” - Yeah Hulk, you're in a battle, Son.

Back to being even now as they both start circling each other. Again, Hogan gets the better of Tenryu again as he puts him in a headlock, before again taking him down with a leghook. Both back on their feet, and Hulk has still got Tenryu in a headlock as they head towards the ropes, which forces a break. Hogan again taunts him with a 'come on' hand gesture, but Tenryu keeps his cool and has that 'yeah, I'm fine and you'll get some' look on his face.

They again go to start a test of strength, but Hogan gives Tenryu a condensing slap on the face










Not clever, dude.
Hogan goes into WWF mode for a bit as he rakes at the eyes and starts throwing right hands at Tenryu, for which Tenryu returns the favour with some chops of his own










Hogan slings Tenryu off the ropes, but he ducks and Hogan tries the big boot, but that's blocked and he gets taken down into a leg lock, but they both end up rolling out of the ring. Tenryu is first back in the ring, as Hogan chases after him. As soon as Hulk gets back in, Tenryu tries to attack but gets an elbow in the throat. Hogan throws him against the ropes and gives him the 

*HULK HOGAN BIG BOOT*










:hutz

But only gets a 2.9 in the matches' first near fall. Hogan in control now as he puts him into a submission hold whilst keeping his knee firmly in Tenryu's back. He gets him up and starts hitting big right hooks, before whipping him into the corner and giving him a clothesline. Tenryu is down on the mat, so Hogan applies a Boston Crab. He manages to get to the ropes and Hulk backs off. Tenryu gets a bit flustered as he just flings himself at Hogan with his whole body lol










Calm down, you'll get your chance. Hogan gets Tenyru in another headlock, before peppering him with right hands. He whips him into the ropes, I thought another BIG BOOT was coming here, but he ends up doing a flying knee to Tenryu










Seemingly injuring his own knee in the process. Tenryu takes him down with a sort of Enzuigiri, shoving Hogan to the outside. Tenryu is in dick mode now as he sees the leg as an easy target. He follows Hulk outside and gets a chair from the crowd and wallops Hogan's leg with it. He does this again before Hogan escapes back into the ring. Hulk in trouble now as his knee is fucked. Tenryu fly kicks Hogan in the head for and attempts a pin, but Hulk gets his leg on the rope quickly to break it.

Tenryu keeps Hogan down and applies a leg hold, bending the bad leg in the process. Hulk tries to get out of this by elbowing Tenryu in the side of the head, but Tenryu is having none of it and just nails Hulk with a kick.










Tenryu fully in control and he gives Hogan a POWERBOMB straight into a pin attempt, but only gets a 2 again. Hogan quickly gets up and is seemingly fine as he punches Tenryu, gives him a body slam, before bouncing off the ropes and gives him another

*HULK HOGAN BIG BOOT*

That came from nowhere TBH. Tenryu kicks out again though (that's two he's already kicked out of, impressive). Hogan then whips Tenryu off the ropes and gives him the

*AX BOMBER* – This was Hogan's main finisher in Japan










But again, TENRYU KICKS OUT AT 2. Bit of a strange transition follows, as Hogan tries again for the BIG BOOT, but this is blocked. Tenryu then immediately gives Hogan an Enzuigiri, before taking him to the mat and back into a leg hold. Back to that leg now I presume. No, Hulk gets up on his feet but Tenryu starts giving him some big kicks to the face and some big ass chops to the chest. Hogan whips him off the ropes again and gives him an awkward looking forearm, before delivering two running elbow drops. He follows this up with another

*HOGAN BIG BOOT*

He pins Tenryu, but again, IT'S ONLY ANOTHER TWO COUNT LOL.

The finish comes pretty much straight after this though, Hogan gives Tenryu his own Enzuigiri










He follows this up with two big AX BOMBERS, which has Tenryu rocking on his feet, before a third finally knocks him down for the THREE COUNT. 

*HULK HOGAN IS YOUR WINNER*

I thought this was really good match, one of Hogan's best for sure I'd say. He mixed up his offense well here and busted out some really effective moves. There was a couple of awkward spots where they weren't quite on the same wavelength, but overall these two worked well with each other to deliver a very good match. Started well with both having some nifty matwork, then picked up when Hogan injured his knee. Some big spots in this match too that were good and it picked up during the last quarter.

Also liked just what it took to put that tough fucker Tenryu away, Three leg drops wasn't enough, it need several Ax Bombers to finally keep him down. Hogan really bough it here and it made for a overall enjoyable match. Tenryu didn't lose much at this point I don't think and neither did Hogan of course, so I guess why it took so much for Hogan to get the win in the end.

Recommended. There's a Hogan/Tenryu vs Road Warriors match from SWS I want to watch now​


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Not gonna lie, totally forgot all about NXT and then I watched it and saw it was effectively just a recap show of TakeOver, I didn’t even bother watching the main event. 

They did have a surprisingly great NXT debut match for Tyler Bate though. Oney Lorcan has a generic jobber, base design, Male #1 , create a wrestler, appearance so I sorta get why he doesn’t ever really have much to do on NXT but he’s actually a really great wrestler, who really makes the most out of very limited opportunities. Meanwhile Bate gets to show the world British Strong Style and the doomsayers are probably right in saying that Bate will probably get few opportunities for matches on this kind of stage, so we all may as well make the most of it. 

But yes, outside of that, NXT right now is a struggling, directionless, sinking ship that if reports are to be believed, barely anyone bothers to watch any more. And honestly, why should they? Before the Rumble, everything seemed so exciting but now the Rumble is over we are left with so many questions and so few answers and not in some compelling, exciting, way just in your usual WWE frustrating heads scratching, way. 

Like why put so much effort into building your Women’s Division only for Asuka to always go over and then carry the belt off of TV? 

Why did they make #DIY drop the belts to AoP so soon after finally achieving their Title win to near universal praise from fans. They finally do something the fans like and then just immediately take it away, are they telling us to fuck off here? Because there seems to be no clear plans for #DIY or AoP now this title change has happened. 

And this is likewise with everyone else, is something genuinely going on in the background here, because it feels like all Nakamura does is work injury angles and barely actually wrestles. Him doing this yet again and dropping the belt to Roode has no clear end goal in sight nor does it have any sense of immediate purpose either. Just like with #DIY , I don’t get why they titles changed hands other than to have them change hands. 

And then finally, what the hell are they doing with Tye Dillinger? His appearance in the Rumble was one of the few bright sparks of that awful match but he did nothing of note and hasn’t been seen or mentioned again until the nice little package about him here. 

Of all people, the person to make a surprise debut on Raw was Samoa Joe, a contextless ass pull which if rumours are to be believed could cost Rollins ANOTHER Wrestlemania and potentially his whole career, as it seems like as soon as Vince sees you as an injury risk, it’s a hole you never get to climb out of. Bet WWE are regretting all this now…


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHAT?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Brock said:


> :hutz
> 
> GET ON YT/NETWORK/ANY-FUCKING-THING AND WATCH IT
> 
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW





ATF said:


> Dude, you've never seen that match? :lmao You're missing out on one of the greatest pro wrestling FIGHTS (not just matches) of all time. GO WATCH IT.


God damn guys. :lol I've seen at least one Sting/Vader match but I couldn't tell you which one. King of Cable? Idk but I know they've got incredible chemistry. I'll definitely watch that strap match sometime soon. I'm working out of state for the next 10 days so I don't have much free time unfortunately.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://zep81wrestlingreviews.blogspot.co.uk/

In case anyone wishes to read my reviews again, i have created a quick blog to post them on too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader, Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sid (WWF In Your House 9: International Incident)*

So, it's been years since I have seen this match TBH and I always remember it being rather good. The Ultimate Warrior was due to be in the match, but was suspended for missing dates, so was replaced by Sid. Considering the time frame of this match, I'm kinda glad. Earlier on in the night, Cornette and Lothario had a debate in the ring, which resulted in Corny trying to whack Jose with the racket and Vader/Shawn having a pull apart face off, to add even further heat to the match.










Nice slide in by HBK there.

So the faces are actually labelled as 'The People's Posse'

:heyman6

Should be interesting given the recent history between Sid and Shawn over the past year and all involved have been going at it with each other for the majority of the year too TBH. HBK is out first, to a big pop too in Canada. The fans are that excited, they fall over the barricade










Lawler's laugh on commentary is funny during this. Already interesting that the faces are the ones to come out first in this and not the heels. Ahmed Johnson is out next with the 'People's Intercontinental Championship Belt'. Got a feeling this is going to take a while to actually start lol. You know who that leaves; SID, and he's next out to that iconic music and a pop of his own.










*“THE MAN IS HERE”​*
The heels are next out and they all come down together with Jim Cornette. Vader/Owen/Davey. Just on paper that is a fucking great team. So it looks like this is finally ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. Owen has a cast on his arm for this, still recovering from his 'broken wrist'. Wonder if that'll come into play.............

Vader and Ahmed look to start this off, but Vader points at Shawn and demands he's in with him (yeah, I bet HBK is relishing this). Ahmed tags him in and it's Vader/HBK off the bat. They both lock up and HBK is like “Bring it” (now are you SURE??). Shawn pounds away with hard rights at Vader, but this doesn't face the big man one bit and Vader just nails Shawn with a big strike to the throat to knock him down.










Yup Shawn, maybe think again on that one. Shawn though gets up and ends up hitting a Hurricinrana on Vader followed by a flying crossbody. He runs at Vader with another crossbody, knocking both of them to the outside. Shawn gets back in the ring and nails Vader with a baseball slide, followed by yet another flying crossbody, this time over the top rope, right onto Vader. HBK using his high flying skills to try and keep the Mastodon down. He goes to the well one too many times though, as he jumps off the apron, but Vader moves and HBK ends up face first off the guardrail.

Both back in the ring now and Vader has HBK just where he wants him; in the corner. He pancakes away at him with hard rights to the face and body (yeah, bet Shawn is loving this, eh). Crowd are chanting for SID, SID, SID at this point. Vader tries for an atomic drop, but Shawn flips right over Vader and makes the hot tag to...............SID!! Crowd ERUPTS.

Sid and Vader finally going to go at it. Sid comes in and starts landing some big fucking strikes on Vader, followed by some quick kicks to the gut and a clothesline to knock Vader down.










Owen and Davey fly in to try and help out, but Sid just fucking cleans house and throws all three of them over the top and to the outside. Fuck Sid is grand when he's like this. All the faces are now in the ring celebrating and Sid and HBK do a chest bump to demonstrate this










Hot start to the match. Owen tries to blind-side Sid, but ends up eating a clothesline and Sid tags Ahmed in. He takes Owen to 

*BOTCH SUPLEX CITY BOTCH.​*
I assume they are supposed to be German's rather than a side suplex TBH. Didn't look great.










Ahmed then goes for a big elbow, but Owen moves out of the way and tags Davey in. He takes control straight away and starts with big clubbing hands to the back. He flings Ahmed off the ropes, but he reverses it and plants Davey with a spinebuster. He follows this up with the Pearl River Plunge










But Vader makes the save. Vader gets Ahmed in the corner and starts slapping him around. Crows are still chanting loudly for SID lol. Ahmed turns it around and clubs Vader with some whirlwind right hands. Vader does the old 'thumb in the eye', sends Ahmed into the opposite corner and gives him a BIG VADER SPLASH. He then keeps him there and starts pounding away at him with Vader fashion with big right hooks to the face and body. Vader then runs at Ahmed and tries for another VADER SPLASH, but Ahmed uses his power and catches Vader into a powerslam for a nearfall pin. 

Vader manages to get up first and tags in Owen, who immediately starts kicking away at Ahmed, before hitting him with a spinning heel kick. Ahmed turns it around as he whips Owen hard into the turnbuckle before using his power and lifting Owen up high for a big body slam. He then tags Sid in (crowd fucking love this guy lol). He levels poor Owen with a BIG BOOT, before sending him back first into the turnbuckle. I loved the bump Owen took here as he tagged Davey in straight away










The powerhouse is in now; Davey. Sid sends him off the ropes, but Davey kicks Sid in the face and puts him high up for a great extended, standing suplex










Great power by the bulldog. Vader takes this opportunity to pop in and drop an elbow on Sid as Davey distracts the ref. Sid then kicks out of a pin attempt in emphatic style. Vader now back in and it's another round of Sid/Vader :mark: Crowd are still chanting SID, SID, SID. Vader takes him down with a big standing body splash, before tagging Davey back in. Good team work here with these quick tags to try and get at Sid. Davey tries nailing Sid with some punches, but Sid is having none of it. He no sells these and plants Davey with a big right hand, before going over to tag HBK in.

He immediately hits Davey with a elbow off the top rope and straight into a 2 count. He slings Davey back first into the turnbuckle and tries to follow it up with a running shoulder barge, but Davey moves and HBK goes shoulder first into the post. He hits HBK with a headbutt and a couple of strikes, but ends up getting slung into the ropes where Vader is standing, knocking the big man over. Owen then breaks up a pin attempt by HBK, who tosses Owen over the top rope and tries again, but only gets a 2.

Davey then tags Owen in, who has his back to the ring, so HBK flings him over the rope and back into the ring. The two then get involved in a game of rolling pin attempts, as Earl tries to keep up










Always good to have Owen and HBK share a ring though. We get an excellent segment of various flips and rolls by them both in pin attempts, just showing just how well these two work together. Owen ends up solving this by hitting HBK with a hard clothesline for another nearfall. He tags Davey back in, who immediately sends HBK over in a back body drop and a leg drop for a quick nearfall. He follows this up with a powerslam and into another nearfall. He then tries an elbow, but HBK moves out the way to possibly seize his chance of a comeback.

Davey sends HBK to the ropes and immediately into Owen, who takes this opportunity to cheapshot HBK over the head with his damn cast. Doesn't get any better for Shawn, as Vader is now tagged in. Crowd are still chanting Sid, Sid, Sid. He puts HBK into the corner and pounds away with big right hooks again. Not a place you want to be again, Shawn. He's picking him apart here and he sends HBK into the opposite corner and into a big bump










Vader gives Sid a cheap slap to distract the ref as Owen goes to the outside and kicks away at Shawn and flings him back into the ring. Vader nails Shawn with a short clothesline. HBK really in trouble here. Vader decides to punish HBK and puts him in a choke/bearhug. A fucking FAN tries to jump into the ring at this point lol










As Vader is in there? Are you crazy or have a damn death wish? Ahmed and Davey 'team up' to chase him away. Vader continues to apply this bearhug as he also pounds away with punches to the midriff. HBK tries a mini comeback with some punches of his own to Vader, but is quickly shit down and placed firmly back into the hold. Vader is the ever so clever heel here, as he yanks on Shawn's hair as the red can't see. Then when the ref goes to the back of HBK to check, Vader starts choking Shawn via his Adam's Apple. Great, subtle work there.










HBK really in trouble here and desperately needs to make a tag. He starts hammering away at Vader, but is caught again with a big standing Vader Splash. Vader follows this up with a body splash off the ropes. Ahmed decides he's had enough of this shit, and flies in and nails Vader with a clothesline. Shawn is fucked as he climbs over Vader in an attempt at finally making a tag. Vader does get a tag though, and Davey jumps in and just about stops HBK from making that elusive tag. HBK keeps trying to get up, but keeps getting knocked right back down again by Davey's punches to the head. Davey gets HBK up, looks like a piledriver, but ends up putting him into a backbreaker. Shawn tries to counter this, but is knocked back down with a Samoan Drop.

Davey whips HBK into the corner, he follows it up, but Shawn moves out the way and Davey goes head first into the ring post. 

OUCH. 

This is HBK's chance now, he has to take it.

Davey manages to tag Owen back in and he and HBK start exchanging punches. Owen flies off the ropes as HBK turns around and they end up colliding with one another and knocking each other over. They are both down on the mat. Davey gets tagged in and sends HBK back to the mat with his finishing running powerslam. THIS IS IT!!!! He goes for the cover but Sid breaks it up, by deciding that a simple blow to the head won't suffice, I need to give Davey a big leg drop lol. HBK has been in there a loooooooooong time now.

Davey tags Vader in and FINALLY, HBK GETS THE HOT TAG TO................AHMED..................but blind Earl didn't see the fucking tag. Vader/Owen/Davey take this opportunity to kick the shit out of HBK as Earl is busy trying to back the faces off. Davey/Owen are now double teaming HBK and Owen tries a missile drop kick, but HBK moves and he hits Davey instead. Shawn has to make the tag now FFS.

YES IT IS, HE HOT TAGS IT STRAIGHT TO..................SID. Crowd go expectedly nuts as Sid flies in and nails Vader with a clothesline and CHOKESLAM. Owen comes in and he eats one too. Oh and ditto for Davey too. Sid is cleaning fucking house. He tags Ahmed in and they double team on Vader and take him down with a double clothesline. HBK gets on the top turnbuckle as Sid picks him up and throws him onto Vader, but Davey comes in to break the pin attempt up.

All hell is now breaking loose as Owen/Davey are lamping Ahmed on the outside, as Sid goes over to help. Meanwhile, Cornette makes his first appearance as he's on the apron and HBK is choking him as Vader picks up the TENNIS RACKET. Shawn turns around in time and punches Vader before picking up the racket, and whacking Vader right over the head with it.

1............2......................WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT, KICK OUT BY VADER!!!!!!!!

HBK goes into the corner and signals for 'Sweet Chin Music' to finish this thing, but Cornette grabs his damn foot as the ref's back is turned and Vader runs over and squashes Shawn. Vader then gets up on the second rope and hits

*VADERBOMB​*
1...........2................................3. Camp Cornette wins. Sid/Ahmed are obviously not happy about this, and attack Owen/Vader as they are celebrating. Poor Davey ends up eating a Sid Powerbomb at the end of this. He's probably sick of these bumps by now lol. Owen also eats one too for good measure.

POWERBOMB FOR VADER TOO????!!! Nah, Sid tries but Davey pulls Vader out the ring just in time. Vader doesn't quite escape though, as Shawn runs and flies over the top rope and hits Vader with a Plancha.

After not watching this thing in years, this certainly holds up as an excellent, kind of forgotten/overlooked, WWF match TBH. HBK has a really good FIP segment, Vader does some good, stiff shit. Sid is over as fuck and is also good in his quick spurts. Owen/Davey work hard and bring the flash from the heel side. Ahmed is........Ahmed. Sloppy at times, but he was only briefly in the match so he didn't really detract anything from it. Good finishing stretch and ending too that helps set up the Vader/Shawn match at Summerslam. Really good transitions in this match too, with both teams having a chance to shine with varying offense.

A top tier multi man match form the WWF here.

Recommended.​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thought Cena vs. Orton was a lot of tonight. Glad they let them go a little wild since the match is obviously not happening at Mania. Need to go back and watch the opening 4 way cause that sounds fantastic.

Also liked Joe vs. Reigns from last night but FUCK I can't wait to see those two on PPV with a proper finish. Thought Joe's new main roster finisher was pretty cool too.

*** 1/4 to both


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

To be honest, I’m quite enjoying Raw right now. Unlike SmackDown which is a bit of a mess right now, Raw seems to have its feet firmly set on the road. I might not like the direction they are going in much but everything has that big fight feel about it, even on free TV, because matches are as much a meal ticket to Wrestlemania as they are anything else. Suddenly, everything matters, in a way it just didn’t ever really feel like before.

Wow… So Goldberg taking the title off of Owens at Fastlane is basically a lock then based on this new Raw? (Also did they really use a free Prisma filter for the card as well? Come on guys!) Are you guys ready for the worst Wrestlemania in history? Hey at least we still got this year’s Wrestle Kingdom which is one of the best top to bottom PPVs I’ve ever watched. Why can’t you be more like NJPW, WWE? 

Look, Goldberg has spent a long time away from the ring and he’s come back and he looks absolutely terrific. You compare it to a lot of guys from his era who are shadows of their former selves and he’s doing really well but the difference is… Goldberg was never really all that good. We keep commenting on his botches since he returned, that cartoonish protection he’s been given by WWE creative but the dude has been out of the ring for over a decade… so what was his excuse before? I watched that Collection on the Network wanting to relive childhood memories and had to turn the thing off, Goldberg was just as much of a Botchberg then, over protected to try and mask how shit he actually was in the ring and at this point he was supposed to be in his prime. It’s just killed any hype I might have once had. I want Owens away from the Title so he can rebuild himself, yes, but I dunno if Goldberg taking the title off of TV is the way to do it. Because lets be honest, between Fastlane and ‘Mania we aren’t going to see Goldberg defend the title once, at least not properly, he might work some special exhibition squash match but that is the lot. They may as well toss the Universal Title out and start again at this point. 

So Samoa Joe’s motivations for going completely out of character and stepping into a suit to become an Authority puppet is so he can be on Monday Night Raw? Well, that is cheap. Hell, the whole set up was cheap. Steph playing the pantomime villain, Reigns and Foley playing for babyface pops. Ugh. It’s also a shame they blew such a big match like Reigns v Joe on Joe’s first proper night on Raw, this could have been a huge PPV match if they had kept them away from one another and given it some build but WWE doesn’t work like that…

In terms of the New SmackDown. What the hell is with Corbin’s facial hair, has it always looked like that? 

Wow Cena and Orton look so old on those match card things. So are they doing the whole Orton/Cena programme now because the rumours of Wyatt going over in Elimination Chamber and going on to face Orton at ‘Mania are actually true..? Ugh, SmackDown, why?

Still, if that Four Way was a taste of at least the match to come in the Elimination Chamber, then it looks like we can expect to have some good ole chaotic fun. Interesting they showed bloodied superstars in the video packages. I’m also glad they gave Corbin the win here. I just hope the booking doesn’t sour it.

In terms of the Orton/Cena Match, it was okay until the end where everything kinda went pear shaped. Super Cena kicking out of everything despite all the punishment he took is just bullshit. Orton instantly tapping to the STF even bigger bullshit. Orton taking the AA and laying down for effectively a six count. I can’t take all the bullshit! (what was Cena trying to tell Orton after the RKO? He clutched Orton’s arm twice, Orton threw his hand away and then they gripped hands one more time after?) Interesting Cena grazed himself on the steel steps like he did, I wonder what will happen in the chamber if he can botch a move like that. Now I can’t wait for Cena to drop the title, so good job I guess WWE?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Sting vs. Cactus Jack (Submit or Surrender) (WCW Power Hour 11/23/91)*

So everyone knows about their Beach Blast 1992 match and how good that is, but I don't remember much from this match TBH, and as it's a precursor of sorts, thought I'd check it out.

So, the 'Submit or Surrender' concept was basically a hybrid between I quit/last man standing/submit. Just gloss over the fact that 'Submit' and Surrender' are basically the same thing.

Jack is out first carrying a plastic garbage bin. Bit of him already trying to psych Sting out as Jack here is wearing a 'Sting' T-Shirt.










*'BANG, BANG'*

Sting comes out and I forgot he's the U.S Champion at this point. Great spot with a young disabled fan, where Sting takes the time to show him the belt and have a moment with him. The bell rings just as Sting gets in the ring and Jack goes straight for him. He starts BITING at Sting's head!!!

*OUCH*

Jack taking the early advantage here as he clubs Sting with right hands. He pounds Sting's head into the turnbuckle, before setting him up on the ropes. Jack runs at Sting, but Sting moves and Jack takes his first (of many I presume) bump of the match to the outside. Sting follows him out and rams Jack's head into the guardrail. Sting not messing around here, as he does it again, not once but twice. He puts that bin that Jack bought with him into position to suplex Jack onto, but Jack blocks it and rams Sting, back first into the guardrail.

Jack picks up the bin and wallops it over the back of Sting. He does it again, before setting up Sting for a suplex of his own, but Sting blocks and reverses this and plants Jack through the bin.










Sting throws Jack back into the ring, straightens the bin out, and throws that in, too. He then picks it up and starts wailing Jack over the head with it. He then STICKS THE BIN OVER JACK'S head, plants him on the mat, and delivers an elbow onto the bin/Jack.










Sting makes sure that bin is still on tight, as he climbs up to the top turnbuckle and delivers a BIG SPLASH onto Jack whilst he's wearing the bin. Jack is dazed and probably wonders where he is as Sting gets him in the corner for the old ten bell salute punches. Jack blocks one of these and tries to give Sting an Atomic Drop, but Sting blocks it and gives him a short clothesline. Sting whips Jack into the ropes, and tries to leapfrog over him, but Jack stands his ground and Sting ends up going nuts first into Jack. Not sure if this was meant to come off as it looked TBH;










*'DON'T RUB 'EM SON, COUNT' EM'*

Safe to say, this is Jack's opportunity to take over proceedings. Jack goes straight for the abdomen area and drops a leg onto Sting. He gives starts kicking Sting's head repeatedly, before shoving him on the ropes and choking him. He then runs off the ropes and plants his full body onto Sting's back, who's still draped over the ropes. Sting is on empty here as Jack continues to pound away at him with stiff forearms, before running off the ropes and delivering a running bulldog. Jack tries for a pin, but has to reminded by the ref that PINFALL'S MEAN NOTHING HERE. Sting in real trouble here, as Jack drops a big knee onto the throat before choking him with his boot.

Crowd start up a 'Sting, Sting, Sting chant to try and will him on. He tries a mini comeback with some strikes and chops, but gets cut off quick by a Jack thumb in the eye. Jack starts kicking the shit out of him, before dumping him through the middle rope and onto the outside. Jack follows him out and throws Sting into the guardrail. Jack then picks up a chair from the crowd, although one chap did his best to stop this from happening, bless him










But obviously loses as Jack picks the chair up and whacks it right over Sting's back. Sting is just dead at this point on the mat outside. Ref is asking Sting if he wants to give up, and Sting is just shaking his head; he's tougher than that. Jack goes for him again with the choking. He sends Sting onto the apron and gives him a neckbreaker off the top rope. OUCH INDEED. Jack is just punishing Sting at the moment and he carries it on with kicks and big headbutt. Sting is rocking on his feet and can barely stand as Jack knocks him right back down with a forearm and applies a chinlock.

*COME ON STINGER*

Crowd are willing Sting on as he's doing his best to try and power out and mount some sort of retaliation. He manages to get up and hits Jack with some strikes, before running off the ropes, but Jack moves out the way and sends Sting crashing right back to the mat with another big forearm smash. Jack follows this up with one hell of a leg drop onto Sting's throat, before going back to the reverse chinlock. Sting needs to do something here, and he does as he staggers up and grabs Jack's hair and yanks his head down onto the top of his own, thus using it as a sort of bettering ram to try and get out of this mess.

He reverses a whip into the ropes and tries a dropkick onto Jack, but Jack is smart and just holds onto the ropes, so Sting falls flat on his ars........................back. Jack follow up on this with a double arm DDT.

*MAN, WHAT HAS STING GOTTA DO??!!*

Sting gets up as Jack comes over to him and dumps him over the top rope to the outside. Finally, this could be the opening Sting has been waiting for. He flies over the ropes and via a crossbody right onto Jack.










Sting is fired up now as he just starts pounding on Jack with some big ass punches to the head. All the shit Sting has taken, looks like it's payback time. He suplexes Jack on the outside, before dumping him back into the ring. He whips Jack into the corner and attempts a STINGER SPLASH, but Jack moves so Sting...........no he doesn't, Sting was smart and put the brakes on just before his head bounces off the post. But don;t speak too soon, as he flies off the turnbuckle, straight onto Jack, who catches him and flings him throat first onto the top rope. This sends Sting back to the outside.

Jack puts Sting into a headlock and marches around the outside with him, before dumping him onto the mat with a backbreaker. Jack gets on the apron and flies right off it onto Sting with a big flying elbow










Sting is showing some balls and resilience here as he's trying to get some energy from somewhere and make his way back up. Jack picks up a mic and shouts “TELL THEM, YOU DON'T WANT ANY MORE' and clubs on Sting's back. He tells Sting to say “I QUIT” and shoves the mic in Sting's mouth.

*NOOOOOOOOOOOOO STING*










“NOT A CHANCE”, cries Sting, as the crowd erupts.

He makes it back onto his feet at last and Jack throws him back into the ring. Jack goes and grabs the chair again as the ref tries to get it off him, Jack just gives him a shove, sending him onto the mat. Well ref, it is a No-DQ. At this point, Sting is so fucked, he can't really stand, as he's got his head draped over the middle rope. PERFECT TARGET PRACTICE FOR JACK.

Jack goes to whack Sting with the chair, but Sting moves and the chair bounces hard off Jack's head










*SURELY THIS IS STING'S BIG CHANCE, NOW!!!*

Jack recovers and climbs onto the apron, but Sting has finally got the energy to get up and hits a big dropkick onto Jack, sending him crashing to the outside, nearly whacking his head off the rail in the process.










Jack is fucked now, as Sting staggers to the outside, and applies the SCORPION DEATHLOCK onto Jack. The ref, now seemingly recovered, runs over to check on Jack, but he is KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT, and can't respond to anything. Sting is declared the WINNER.

Well this was fucking excellent. Not sure how it compares to the Beach Blast match, but this is such a great brawl on it's own TBH. Jack is fantastic here; Menacing, punishing, just doesn't care one bit. Sting is equally wonderful as the full on babyface in complete peril. These two work so well together, and Jack was the perfect opponent for Sting to demonstrate why he could be so good in this sort of setting. The finish was brutal in showing what it took to finally get and keep Jack down. A full on chair shot to the head, followed by a nasty bump on the outside. Jack looks great here but so does Sting. Jack is spot on with how ruthless he his and makes all his offense work here, and Sting is perfect to play off it all.

Just wonderful.

Recommended.​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Styles vs. Miz vs. Corbin vs. Ambrose - *** 1/4 (Crazy match wrestled at a frantic pace. Miz using Bryan's running knee was awesome. I don't personally recall seeing him do that before but I wouldn't be surprised if he has and I've forgotten. Styles forgetting how to take the End of Days was kinda funny at the end. Nice win fro Corbin)

Speaking of frantic, all of you be sure to watch the 5 way elimination match from 205 Live this week. Fantastic stuff with some great storytelling. Gallagher adapting to the circumstances late in the match is something to see and Alexander looks like a million bucks too. ****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fatal four-way was fun on Smackdown. ***1/2.

I really couldn't care less about Cena vs. Orton in 2017. I just can't. I don't care if it's a good match, I just don't care anymore. Thank god this isn't going to be the Wrestlemania main event.

Reigns/Joe was fine from Raw. Strowman is still the best thing on the show. I fucking love that guy. 

I'm in that phase where the product is really turning me off again which is odd considering the RTWM is here, but maybe that changes on Sunday if a certain someone walks out of EC with the WWE Title.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Found the money in the bank anthology set for £2. Quite fun watching the older ones tbh. Think the set goes up to 2013, on Wrestlemania 24 MITB at the moment. Gotta say the WM22 one was boring as shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddy Guerrero & Chris Jericho vs. Faces of Fear (WCW Monday Nitro 02/24/1997)*

Was flicking through 1997 and had the urge to watch this gem. One of the best matches in the Nitro era. Haku/Barbarian were always one of my favourite big man teams and in this match, they offer some great offense, with Y2J/Eddy being the smaller guys trying to survive. Looking forward to this.

Faces Of Fear are out. Two big hard bastards










Barbarian and Jericho start things off. They lock up but Barbarian just hits Y2J with a series of vicious knees to the midriff, before shoving him into the corner and choking him out and hitting him with a big strike. Jericho gets whipped off the ropes, but ducks a big boot attempt and dropkicks Barbarian's legs from under him. Always a wise strategy when going against big fuckers like these.

Jericho keeps the fast pace and offense going as he gets bounced off the turnbuckle, he catches Barb with a boot, before delivering a missile dropkick, taking the big man down. He tags Eddie in, who springs over the top rope, back first onto Barb and gets a nearfall. The actual faces make a good start in this one. He runs off the ropes, but gets caught by Barn who just plants poor Eddie face first onto the mat










*OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH​*
Eddie already in trouble as Barb just throws him into the corner like a ragdoll. He tags in Meng (oh it's just gets better for Eddie, doesn't it). Meng starts off with chops and strikes to Eddie, who tries in vein to start a mini comeback, but is put firmly in his place with a big headbutt from Meng. This is followed up by a crashing POWERBOMB on Eddie, who is in real trouble here. Meng rubs it in with a little victory dance.










Eddie though quickly pops up from this as he runs off the ropes and hits Meng with a Hurracinrana, before quickly tagging Y2J back in. They immediately double team Meng with a back body drop. Jericho stays on the offense with a back body roll into another quick nearfall. He runs off the ropes but is caught with a kick to the back by Barb. Meng capitalises by dumping Chris on his head with a sickening back suplex.










He tags Barb back in, who immediately picks Jericho up and places him on the top turnbuckle. This can't be good news for Y2J. Barb climbs up also and delivers one hell of a 

*TOP FUCKING ROPE BELLY TO BELLY SUPLEX​*









'Holy shit' chants abound if this was 2017 I'm sure.

One hell of a spot. Barb follow this up with a pin attempt, but Eddie quickly grabs Chris's leg and places it on the ropes. Jericho manages to blindly catch Barb in a small package, but Barb shrugs that off and tags Meng in. Y2J reaaaaaaaaaly needs a tag of his own here. Meng starts punishing Jericho with a headbutt and throws him into the corner to hit him with some chops and strikes. He whips Chris into the opposite corner, but Chris flies feet first off the turnbuckle and into a crossbody onto Meng for a nearfall. Meng kicks out and is pissed. He just starts kicking the shit out of Y2J with vicious boots to the chest and head before choking him out.

Meng with some classic heel tag work here, as he picks on Eddie, who rightfully responds by trying to get in the ring. Meng slyly waves Barb in behind the ref's back to inflict more damage on poor Y2J. Barb just follows up what Meng was doing and also starts kicking the living shit out of Jericho. Some excellent work here by the FOF, TBH. Meng still in as he whips Jericho off the ropes, and Barb steps in. As Y2J comes back off the ropes, he gets lifted up by Meng and straight into a POWERBOMB by Barb.










*JERICHO IN DEEEEEEEEEP SHIT ATM.​*
Barb goes for the cover and gets a 2, before Eddie flies over the top rope and makes the save. Both of the FOF are in the ring now and both get up on opposite turnbuckes. Now this can't be good. They both fly off the corners and deliver a DOUBLE FLYING HEADBUTT










Man, Jericho has taken some punishment in this one so far. Barb goes for another cover on Jericho, but again, gets to 2 before Eddie makes the save. Jericho valiantly tries to mount some sort of comeback as he flays away at Barb with some wild punches, but is quickly stopped by the classic thumb in the eye. He gets dumped on the mat again as Barb tags Meng back in. Jericho gets some adrenaline from somewhere, as Meng whips him into the ropes, Y2J flies off the middle rope feet first, and hits Meng with a backflip moonsault. He's too fucked to try a pin but needs a tag at least now.

He hits Meng with an Enzigiri, who pops back up and attempts an elbow, but Jericho moves out the way and finally TAGS EDDIE IN.

*HERE WE GO.​*
Eddie flies right over the top rope and hits Meng with a series of punches and am uppercut. He flings off the ropes and tries to get Meng off his feet, but the big man isn't budging. He finally does it with a dropkick, just as Jericho gets on the top rope and hits Meng with a crossbody. Eddie and Y2J follow this up with a double dropkick, which sends Meng over the other side and he tags Barb back in. Y2J/Eddie fully in control now as Jericho sends Meng flying off the apron with a =another dropkick, before they hit Barb with a double suplex.

Y2J goes to the ropes in a attempt to hit the Lionsault, but Meng catches him and flings him though the middle rope and onto the outside. Eddie climbs the top rope, but what's this – DEAN FUCKING MALENKO runs in and sends flying into a big boot by Barb for the pin and win.










They got screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewed.

Well this is just as good as it ever was. I read a good analogy of this match elsewhere; It's like a shorter version of that great Powers Of Pain/Rockers match, and that's what it felt like. Y2J was excellent in his FIP segment, both the FOF were brutal, as expected, in all of their offense. The belly to belly suplex spot for example was INSANE. Probably the FOF's best match in WCW and one of the best TV matches from this era IMO.

Recommended.​


----------



## Theszpress22 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Harley Race vs Terry Funk 7/1/77 - Houston, TX*

Thanks to NWAonDemand this classic was unearthed just a few days ago and it is a 'must see' for old school fans. Seeing Race & Funk in their prime is an absolute treat and it shows how great Funk was as a wrestler.

Just a few highlights.

1st Fall

I dont think I've seen Terry work any better on the mat, he is excellent here mostly working on Harley's arm. Funk hits a huge military press slam which I don't see often from him but then goes straight back on the arm. Then unfortunately the tape goes black and we lose about 4 minutes of action. When it comes back Race is now in control working a headlock. Race then has a head scissors lock on Funk, when Funk gets out then the intensity increases with Funk now in fight mode. This is a long fall, both guys exchanging moves, finally Race wins the 1st fall with a abdominal stretch at 28:46.



















2nd Fall

Funk slapping Race, now Race is PISSED, another huge slam by Funk but then Race headbutts Funk's abdomen. Race goes for another abdominal stretch, Funk counters into a backslide but only a 2 count, then Funk hits a viscous piledriver and takes the 2nd fall at 3:05.

3rd Fall

The fists are flying now, Funk going all out now, swinging neck breaker, kick in the head Funk just cant keep him down. BIG atomic drop, cover 1,2 leg on the ropes, the crowd thought Funk won, now Funk trying the spinning toe hold, Funk's eye is BUSTED OPEN, toe hold again but Funk is having trouble seeing and the ref is concerned, Funk is telling the ref not to stop the match, Funk gets the toe hold on again but Race attacks Funk's eye, the ref checks Funk again and Funk hits the ref and he calls for the bell at 7:39.

Winner: Harley Race by blood stoppage.



















We even get a post-match promo with Funk saying that he talked with the NWA president Eddie Graham asking for a rematch which took place in Houston a few weeks later which cannot be stopped whatsoever.

I know people have mix feelings about the NWAonDemand site but it's footage like this that make it worth it and there's plenty more to come.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Spending my Sunday afternoon/evening watching the past Chambers just to amp up my disappointment for tonight. Started with the Chamber debut at Survivor Series 2002, I know it was fifteen years ago but man WWE was a whole different world back then and I miss it so, this is the WWE I grew up with. 

Yeah the match is all over the place with Triple H getting busted open in the opening seconds of the match which really contrasts with his SUPAAAAAH booking, it was also silly RVD effectively eliminated himself and Booker T was kinda pointless… but God that finish. 

Michaels delivers so many works of art super kicks in those cowboy boots, I love seeing both him and Triple H already broken and bloody and yet they continue to just destroy each other. What a way to sign off the first ever Chamber. 

Outside of that, the main highlight for me was seeing Kane on the warpath back when he still had some semblance of an aura. The dude was my favourite as a kid and it’s a shame that someone so awesome has had ultimately a pretty terrible career with WWE despite his length of service. I mean it wasn’t long after this before he got unmasked and the rest is… best left forgotten. His career never really recovered again. But like I say, at least we have moments like these, as Kane throws Jericho through “bullet proof glass” busting him open, goes on a Chokeslam parade and doesn’t stop until he takes a Sweet Chin Music, a Pedigree AND a Lionsault in succession. 

Jericho is a real badass in this match, too. I mean we all remember the way the dude would float across the ring but he gets real nasty at times too and for great effect. I love the way he targets Michaels back and that moment where he tries to bleed Michaels, calling him a “Son of a Bitch” in the process. I mean I love the Jericho we have now but imagine how much better JeriKO would be with this Jericho teaming up with Owens when he was on his monster run. 

Next up is the Chamber from SummerSlam ’03.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just watched SummerSlam ’03’s Chamber… it was pretty weak, I thought. Goldberg exploding out of his Pod destroying every thing and every one one was epic but the finish was bullshit, pure Haitch ego at the expense of good storytelling. The rest of the match was just a watered down version of the first go around which was a shock as this match had a much better lineup. 

This PPV is all about that Lesnar Angle match. That shit is fucking legit. It sometimes gets hard to remember just how good Brock Lesnar once was.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

I remember at the time (i was 14) thinking that the chamber at NYR05 was great. I dont really recall any of the more recent ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, that chamber match kind of sums up the good and the bad of Goldberg's WWE run tbh. He was great in there and the true Goldberg.......then HHH had to be HHH and cut it all off in one swoop. Goldberg's title win was actually still big and got a good reaction IIRC, but he should have gone over at SummerSlam.

Lesnar/Angle is fucking legit as you say. Need to revisit that soon myself. I love Lesnar's "WHAT THE FUCK" response when Kurt kicks out of the F5. (Think it was after an F5, it was a pin attempt anyway  )


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Brock said:


> Yeah, that chamber match kind of sums up the good and the bad of Goldberg's WWE run tbh. He was great in there and the true Goldberg.......then HHH had to be HHH and cut it all off in one swoop. Goldberg's title win was actually still big and got a good reaction IIRC, but he should have gone over at SummerSlam.
> 
> Lesnar/Angle is fucking legit as you say. Need to revisit that soon myself. I love Lesnar's "WHAT THE FUCK" response when Kurt kicks out of the F5. (Think it was after an F5, it was a pin attempt anyway  )


There was just such authority behind all of Goldberg's moves here, you watch his WCW run and it was filled with botches and his current WWE run... yeah, but there was a perfect storm here in the EC. The best I've ever seen from Goldberg. It was so badass when he kicked through the glass, sliced his leg to pieces, didn't even skip a beat. 

Man the way Angle lands, that has gotta be one of the most brutal looking F5's I've ever seen. I think we were all shocked when Angle kicked out because it looked like he may have died. 



Daniel97 said:


> I remember at the time (i was 14) thinking that the chamber at NYR05 was great. I dont really recall any of the more recent ones.


Actually watching that one as we speak.... or I thought I was, I realised clicked on '06 by accident somehow? Well I wasted a lot of time doing that, I don't think I'm gonna get all the Chamber's finished I planned on watching. I'm gonna try and watch as much as I can from '05 now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

05 EC :trips5. Best chamber match ever imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pizzamorg said:


> Man the way Angle lands, that has gotta be one of the most brutal looking F5's I've ever seen. I think we were all shocked when Angle kicked out because it looked like he may have died.












:lelbrock

Brock with that great selling again with the leg.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Brock said:


> :lelbrock


More like an inverted Burning Hammer with the way he drives his head into the mat.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Finished the correct NYR05. It is an odd watch because on the one hand, it may be one of the best matches in WWE history, it took two dry runs but they finally got the Chamber so, so, right. It is an all star blood bath! Only real disappointment is how easily Batista gets taken out, not that it matters because he makes his mark even after getting officially eliminated. Although how come Shawn Michaels ref’d this match properly? I figured as they added him as a special guest referee he'd cause shenanigans but... no?

But then on the other is… Chris Benoit, who hangs like a constant, distracting, elephant in the room. Benoit, as a rassler, maybe one of the greatest of all time and is pretty consistently a part of the best matches put on by the WWE and it’s so hard to admit that given what he would go on to do, what he would go on to cause. It makes it quite hard to enjoy at times just by being there as a reminder.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't HBK superkick Edge which lead to his elimination? Not exactly refereeing properly .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck sake Shawn. Hits Taker with a chair, super kicks Edge to get him eliminated and goes onto hit Taker again, this time with a super kick.

Worlds.Worst.Ref.



























But there's still Hebner :side:


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Big Cal's World said:


> Didn't HBK superkick Edge which lead to his elimination? Not exactly refereeing properly .


Yeah but isn't that after Edge spears him? So much madness in the match now I'm unsure of myself. 

But regardless, when it was effectively a handicap match against Orton at the end, Shawn could have easily fucked everything up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

But HBK is a babyface, so they had to make him seem impartial unless someone attacked him.

Also, don't quite remember the build, but they might have done something similar to the Nash/HHH HIAC where it was TOO DANGEROUS for normal referees to want to do the match? I dunno. Who cares. Match rocks :mark:.

Might go watch it myself just now.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Big Cal's World said:


> But HBK is a babyface, so they had to make him seem impartial unless someone attacked him.
> 
> Also, don't quite remember the build, but they might have done something similar to the Nash/HHH HIAC where it was TOO DANGEROUS for normal referees to want to do the match? I dunno. Who cares. Match rocks :mark:.
> 
> Might go watch it myself just now.


No question on the match itself just the whole angle with him as special guest ref seems kinda pointless by the end. Even the commentators mention it and then are clearly silenced as they randomly drop it and stop bringing it up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*puts in the NYR 05 DVD*

:mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think tonight's match definitely has the potential to be one of the better Chamber matches, especially since it's by itself as the only one on the card. No weak link in the match and Styles & Ambrose could wind up doing some crazy shit or bumping like wild men.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Unlike most people I actually think WWE is probably as good as its been in recent years but THREE divas matches and a handicap match on PPV?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daniel97 said:


> Unlike most people I actually think WWE is probably as good as its been in recent years but THREE divas matches and a handicap match on PPV?


Smackdown's roster gets a bit thin when you put the top 6 guys in one match. 

I thought Mickie/Becky was a really solid opener though. Mickie hasn't lost a step at all. *** 1/4


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Mickie/Becky - **1/2
Handicap - *
Nikki/Natalya - **3/4
Harper/Orton - ***3/4
Naomi/Bliss - *3/4
Elimination Chamber - ****

Harper needs to be pushed so he can face Bray after Mania. Great night for Bray/Harper.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Another strong PPV for Smackdown imo, especially considering how thin some of the card was.

Mickie vs. Becky - *** 1/4 (Mickie was really sharp with her armwork and Becky played a nice underdog. Very solid match)

Ziggler vs. Crews & Kalisto - N/R (Yeah I don't really care about whatever they're trying to accomplish here)

Tag Team Turmoil - *** (I thought this was both a lot of fun and smartly booked. Slater was wrestling like a madman throughout their portions. He was great. The angle with Usos taking out Alpha right after their match was brilliant because it keeps that feud open and it really did look like the Ascension were gonna come in and win the belts after they got that big victory on last week's SD. I mean, they didn't win but it was still smart booking and AA looks strong with the win. Hoping for a proper Alpha vs. Usos match at Mania so they can go all out)

Natalya vs. Nikki - ** 1/4 (This wasn't that bad but my god it was SO DAMN LONG. It peaked on a few different occasions but they opted to keep the match going and it ended up going to a double countout which was completely unnecessary.)

Orton vs. Harper - *** 3/4 (GREAT slow burn match that got better and better with each passing minute. Harper worked his ass off with the bumping and the constant avoiding of signature moves and delivered a star-making performance in the process. There were a couple awkward moments but this is definitely a match that I'll remember and the type of match you wanna see your Royal Rumble winner participating in to keep his stock high for Mania. I hope they have something planned for Harper in the future cause man he was fucking good here)

Bliss vs. Naomi - ** 1/2 (A solid match although it felt a bit rushed at times. Legit surprised by Naomi winning but I felt really happy for here. It's a long time coming and the crowd responded extremely well)

Elimination Chamber - **** 1/4 (Well my prediction was correct in Styles & Ambrose killing themselves. They were bumping machines and the match was pretty damn good from start to finish. Cena was fucking great too with the alpha dog attitude he carried around, constantly pointing to the Wrestlemania sign and puling out big risks like he knew he could pull off the win. Made it even more surprising when Wyatt caught him off guard with Sister Abigail. Miz's segment was hilarious and served its purpose. I wish Corbin had lasted longer but at least they gave us a future program with he and Ambrose. I was biting hard on the nearfalls between Styles & Cena late in the match. Really not sure what else I could've asked for here)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Orton/Harper and the Chamber were both fantastic. ***3/4 and ****1/4 respectively. The rest of the show was largely forgettable.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

@Big Cal's World, how does the Elimination Chamber in 2014 compare to 2005?
@everyone else, how does the EC in 2014 compare to last night's?

I'm thinking of devoting some time to WWE, again, and EC'14 is the favourite I've watched.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> @Big Cal's World, how does the Elimination Chamber in 2014 compare to 2005?
> @everyone else, how does the EC in 2014 compare to last night's?
> 
> I'm thinking of devoting some time to WWE, again, and EC'14 is the favourite I've watched.


I barely even remember the 2014 match. Hell I had to google it to see who the fuck was even in it. All I remember from the show is the epic Shield/Wyatts match.

Decided to watch the chamber match from last night. Was ok. I'd throw maybe ***1/4 at it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> @Big Cal's World, how does the Elimination Chamber in 2014 compare to 2005?
> @everyone else, how does the EC in 2014 compare to last night's?
> 
> I'm thinking of devoting some time to WWE, again, and EC'14 is the favourite I've watched.


2005 is better than both but I think last night's was better than 2014. It might be a bit weird to see at first though because the changed the structure and it seems to be padded on the outside now. There was a ton of action though and everyone was working hard.

My Chamber list would probably look like this:

1. 2002 (unpopular in here but I still love it)
2. 2005
3. 2017
4. Raw 2008
5. 2011


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This year's was probably one of my all-time fav chamber matches, tbh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Despite some definite filler and a lot of it, I'd say RAW was still a success tonight. 

Rusev vs. Zayn - *** 1/4
Women's Title: Charlotte vs. Bayley - ****
Festival of Friendship - ******

Roman's handicap match was pointless as was pretty much the whole first hour. Strowman vs. Henry was a fun little 5 minute match though. Rusev/Zayn was as good as it sounds on paper and the out of nowhere finish was a nice surprise for me. Loved Zayn following up with Joe's comments and their program should be good stuff, even though I was relatively disappointed with their NXT matches. Joe's interview was excellent btw and I love how he's being presented so far.

Festival of Friendship, where to start. That was both hilarious and brilliant. Jericho bringing out GILLBERG had me goin wild. LOLed at the "ya beat him!" comment too. :lol Whole thing was great and the way they had Owens turn was pretty damn clever too.

Bayley! :mark: Awesome match and very glad it got to main event. Both ladies brought the heat but Charlotte in particular was fucking shit up all match with those chops and blows to the neck. Loved the finishing stretch. Executed perfectly.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Festival of Friendship was the best segment I've seen on Raw in a long-ass time. Like for real, I think this could the kinda stuff people're gonna be comparing great segments in the coming years to. That kid in the white shirt in the front row looked absolutely HORRIFIED, fan reactions like these just add so much to this type of thing. Loved it.

Edit: Just watched the main event and that shit was GREAT. Awesome match. Probably my favourite from the Horsewomen on the main roster.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. 

Bayley winning the title so she can be upstaged by Charlotte at Fastlane, they’ve just swapped Sasha Banks out for Bayley and they’re doing it all over again. What a load of bullshit. 

Steph looking fire, trying so hard to get Roman over still after all this time but I guess it beats Raw usual booking of announcing a PPV match and then doing that match every week on Raw leading into the PPV with extra stipulations not even included in the PPV version, killing the interest in the actual PPV. I’m fine seeing these guys jump each other for three weeks, that is how you build momentum and heat, just don’t put them in an actual match until the PPV. Hell, Strowman is my Raw MVP possibly WWE MVP. Raw may have got a lot wrong, just look at that Emmalina shit during this very episode to get an idea of their troll booking, but I love what they’ve done with Strowman. 

What I’m not so happy about is… The Club. I’ll be honest, I think Gallows and Anderson have been shit in WWE and are another NJPW import that I think we be better off going back to Japan. I only watch their matches on PPV because I watch them live and can’t fast forward beyond them. They’ve got the Tag straps, so that has to count for something, but surely not too much as they effectively just fed them to Reigns with Reigns taking the fight to them despite them constantly telling us that after last week with all the beatdowns he took, he was less than 100%. So your tag Champs are so scared they can’t even beat one injured dude in a handicap match, they get themselves DQ’d and run with their tails between their legs? Seems like a burial to me. And kinda pointless. 

Carrying on with the positives though, I think they’e doing some good work with Joe. On paper the character and story they’ve given him doesn’t really work for me but Joe is doing a great job in working that into all the good things he did on NXT. The dude has got ego and swagger with the evidence to back it up and is primal yet calculating when in the ring. If Triple H is scared, he’s got the perfect weapon here. I just hope this role doesn’t end up being a bit of a dead end for him. I’m 100% for this Sami Zayn Samoa Joe match if it actually happens, Zayn v Rusev was probably the only part of the episode of any real note in terms of actual wrestling. 

That Festival of Friendship was actually pretty fun…. i thought they were gonna fuck it with the whole Gillberg thing but then they let Owens become a monster again, making it an INCREDIBLE segment. I wish I had Chris Jericho as a friend. I’m guessing Owens is kissing that title goodbye.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I really hope they go the not-so-obvious route and have Lesnar cost Goldberg the title at Fastlane so that Owens/Jericho can have the belt attached to it at Mania. I don't think anyone thinks that Owens will retain yet again so that would be a nice surprise.

Wyatt vs. Cena for the WWE Title tonight! Expecting some kind of angle that gives us an idea of what Cena will be doing at Mania. Unfortunately, I think that has something to do with Miz & Maryse...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Why does Brock/Goldberg need a title at all? It sells itself without the title. 

Haven't watched much wrestling since Mania, can anyone point me in the direction of some awesome stuff since then? I've seen Styles/Cena from Summerslam, but thats about it tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Smitty said:


> Why does Brock/Goldberg need a title at all? It sells itself without the title.
> 
> Haven't watched much wrestling since Mania, can anyone point me in the direction of some awesome stuff since then? I've seen Styles/Cena from Summerslam, but thats about it tbh.


I think they probably feel the title needs them tbh. As in, having their names on the lineage. The match doesn't need the title as the story is fine without it, but it looks like Lesnar may ultimately win it and of course someone has to then go over him to win it.














*cough*REIGNS*cough*

Lol.




















Won't lie, be great to see Goldberg with a title again, even though it's the UT. Feel bad for KO but he's had it 6 months and it's not been great as it's been more about Jericho tbh.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I completely forgot about RAW last night. My stupid brain had me thinking it was Sunday 
@Smitty, I'm not sure what there is to recommend from WWE last year. I have no idea how this company manages to put out such a terrible product despite having an all time GOAT roster. 

______

I just checked my profile and I can't believe it's been seven years I've been a member of WF. To think I was 15 when I first joined. It's scary how fast time flies. Man, I'm getting old :mj2

Can't believe the amount of shit threads I made :mj2

Can't believe the amount of shit posts I made :mj2

Can't believe @seabs once banned me for trolling :mj2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It just irks me that outside of WM 30, the last few champs going into Manias have been dudes from other eras, WM 29 we had the Rock, 31 we had Brock, last year was HHH, and now Goldberg? Like jesus they just cant seem to let someone younger then 40 get a shot :lol

Anything from any other promotions? Surely something good must have happened in 2016 :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smitty said:


> Haven't watched much wrestling since Mania, can anyone point me in the direction of some awesome stuff since then? I've seen Styles/Cena from Summerslam, but thats about it tbh.


Roman/AJ Payback & Extreme Rules
IC Title 4-Way Extreme Rules
Owens/Zayn Battleground
Ambrose/Styles Backlash & TLC
Entire Miz/Ziggler PPV series
Survivor Series RAW vs. Smackdown match
Charlotte/Sasha 30 minute Ironman from Roadblock

Reigns/Owens & Cena/AJ from the Rumble
Elimination Chamber match from two nights ago

WWE since the brand split has been fine. Actually Smackdown has been great. People just don't like the product for whatever reason. It's not that bad at all.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Owens/Zayn on PPV :mark:

Thanks for that though, a good bunch of that stuff looks worth checking out


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE Title match tonight is now Wyatt vs. Styles vs. Cena! :woo

Wrestlemania has come early! :mark:

EDIT: So yeah that was definitely a lot of fun and the crowd was RED HOT, but literally the whole match was finishers. :lol I'll settle on *** 1/2 since there wasn't much creativity at all but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy it.

The writers from Smackdown need a fucking raise too. Harper coming out to attack Wyatt before the match so we don't forget about him? Love it. Orton declaring his undying allegiance to Wyatt and that he will not face him at Wrestlemania? Who the fuck saw that comin!? 

If only we could get a clear path for AJ at Wrestlemania...


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

People complain but there was some fantastic stuff on RAW and SD this week. The festival of friendship segment was one of the best of recent years. 

Bray/Cena/AJ - ***3/4

One of the best finisher spammers you will ever see. Bray finally got his wins back over Cena.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Triple Threat was fun, like Corey said they spammed a lot of finishers but it was still pretty nice to see Cena take the fall instead of AJ. This was my first time watching SD in a while and I really enjoyed it, it was entertaining throughout and the writing was excellent.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I don't even care how much they spammed finishers, that match was fun as FUCK with a HOT crowd. Wyatt pinning Cena clean with Sister Abigail, which didn't get kicked out of a single time, was an excellent finish too. 

I fucking love Smackdown so much.

And now a battle royal to set up a new number one contender for the WM Title match. I'm fully prepared for that Wyatt vs. Harper vs. Orton main event. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good episode of 205 Live. Metalik FINALLY making his debut was awesome and the match with Gulak was good stuff. The interview between Neville & Perkins actually helped me look forward to their match a lot more and that ended up being good as well even though the crowd was completely dead for it. Probably ***-*** 1/4 range for both.

-----------------------

Bryan just announced on Talking Smack that they're gonna have a Battle Royal next week to determine a new number one contender to face Wyatt at Mania.

HARPER! :mark:

Easy way to set up a Triple Threat for Mania.

EDIT: Got beat to it.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New SmackDown. 

Like a lot of people have said, Elimination Chamber really exposed the SmackDown roster but I did find this episode did make some effort in recovering that. 

For example, two guys who really should have had a place on the card from the get go but so far haven’t, Corbin and Ambrose, look like they’ll be feuding over the IC Title into ‘Mania. Which, when you think about it, writes itself. Why Ambrose wasn’t defending the title at Chamber is beyond me but if he had turned up in the Andre the Giant thing and not defended his title at ‘Mania either… that would just be stupid. I just hope the rumours about the IC Title being dropped to the preshow aren’t true… but this is WWE. 

I dunno whether WWE listened to the collective groaning at the idea of a OrtonWyatt ‘Mania Championship match or what but I think this match made the intention clear that that isn’t where we’re ending up… or they just wanted to make us think that? I mean look at Wyatt, he barely made it out of this Triple Threat, despite the fact that he cleanly and definitively defeated both of these guys consecutively two days beforehand. Yeah the Harper beatdown plays a factor, sure, but Wyatt shrugged that off pretty quickly and just got on with the match so the beatdown doesn’t hold much water. Another 5* performance from Styles in a 2* match as well. 

Meanwhile though SmackDown is giving me no reason to care about their Women’s or Tag Divisions whatsoever. They are both full of talent but once again it’s all wasted. I don’t think either are as bad as Raw’s but when their developmental show is putting them both to shame in that regard, you have a problem.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> WWE Title match tonight is now Wyatt vs. Styles vs. Cena! :woo
> 
> Wrestlemania has come early! :mark:
> 
> ...


That right there tells you a story about why the product is dislikeable. The booking and the shows are generally uncreative and flat out boring.

At least from my eyes


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

I cant think of a RAW/SD that hasen't had a good-great match or segment this year.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Thought it was a pretty bad show up to the main event which was a very easy watch. Highlight of the show was JBL falling down the ramp trying to do a two step. Becky/Mickie was technically sound but dull. I didn’t care, the crowd didn’t care, super forgettable. Handicap match was an absolute mess. I figured the only possible reason for a handicap match in favour of the babyfaces would be for Crews to turn but nope. I hate WWE’s recent trend of deciding that slightly above run-of-the-mill bumps now warrant teasing being taken out of a match. Kallisto got throw into something. Big deal. It’s like they just decide to create their own narratives when they feel like. Well that’s exactly what it is actually. We want to do an injury angle so now that spot is death. Okay then. Oh and then Kallisto returns and does his comeback just the same as he would. Well expect this was way sloppier than usual. Or maybe that was Kallisto actually selling the injury spot and it just was way too meta for us all to comprehend. Babyfaces made the hot tag and then cheered for themselves as they beat the poor heel up 2 on 1. Not that anyone would be rooting for them anyway but way to just make sure of it. Crews has been such a catastrophic failure. Only hope is for someone to start slapping the shit out of him every week and wake some fire up in him and turn him into the type of character Joe is right now. Skipped most of the tag gauntlet. Life is too short to be spending any amount of time watching Breezango, Slater/Rhyno and The Vaudevillians in anything. Tuned back in for Usos/Alpha which wasn’t good. Remember when the brand split took place and everyone was excited for a long series between them two because what the fuck else would they do with that division. Yup. One positive coming out of this is that I found a new measuring stick for success. If you can wrestle in street clothes and it works you’re a success. The Usos in street clothes while they’re being booked this bad just compounds the problem. 

Nikki/Natalya was watchable but it wasn’t good. If Nikki really is hurting as much as reports say she is then for gods sake wrestling these matches is just so not worth it. Hey I took a superplex on my surgically repaired neck that I’m feeling really bad prolonged numbness in at the age of 33 in a *1/2 match that didn’t get over. Smart that. Just stop wrestling and move into another role. And I actually kinda like Nikki in the ring these days! 

Orton/Harper I didn’t care for. I don’t like Harper when he works like the big man high flyer. Does nothing at all for me. If I want to see a big guy work like a cruiserweight there’s many guys so much better than him at it and the truth is he isn’t all that good at doing the high flying stuff. In the 90s it’d be super cool but it’s not unique anymore and it’s not something he busts out that catches you off guard. It’s basically his whole act besides looking creepy. Orton’s good but also blah which encapsulated this match. Commentators calling it an epic about ten times made me hate it ten times more. It was at best a borderline good match. 

Naomi/Alexa was a mess. Naomi is just flat out terrible. I don’t give a shit that she can jump high and is athletic and that she can do a split legged moonsault. Her bearings in the ring are awful and she’s another female wrestler concentrating too hard on what the spot is to do all the stuff besides the spot itself that makes a match good. Her timing on them 2 moonsaults. Jesus wept. Alexa probably should have moved sooner on the first one but Naomi ran through that spot so quickly that you could see why that happened. And then the second one she sets her up halfway across the ring so Alexa needs like 3 rolls to get into position which also leads into the horrible why the fuck is the loser rolling into place to be hit by the move and then because Naomi has no timing or bearings she ended up hurting both her and Bliss on the second one. These modern wrestling crowds are absolutely atrocious. That you deserve it chant because FUCKING NAOMI won a title that doesn’t matter. That post match made me so bitter and grumpy. And apparently they did the same for Bray after the show went off. Do a shot for every you deserve it chant at the Hall of Fame this year and see if you live to tell the tale. 

Chamber match was very good, almost exclusively down to the pacing of the match which was really good. As far as spots go I can barely remember any less than a day after watching it. AJ took some great bumps, Miz had great reactions and Cena did an awesomely goofy cross body off the pod. That’s about it. But the match was good. New Chamber looks real soft but the chamber being a nasty gimmick that causes kayfabe injuries is a thing of the past and just taking a bump over the top rope onto the old steel rails always looked like it hurt but not in a that was a great spot way but in that probably actually hurt a bit way that produces no benefits and just pain to the wrestlers. So yeah the new look is soft but the rewards are greater than keeping the old one so good on them. I wish Corbin got more of a showing because he’s getting really good and this was the perfect environment to show that off in. Miz’s reaction to Corbin staring him out was brilliant and then waiting for the chamber to fully close before pouncing on Ambrose. I thought Bray looked really exposed as being nowhere near as good as anyone else in the match (and this was a match with Dean Ambrose in!). He just brought nothing at all the table. Average ring work and nothing on the character work front. At least they let him pin Cena and AJ clean to make him somewhat credible but WWE don’t get to just undo history and make up for it in short term fixes when they feel like it. Bray getting that big a pop for winning was odd because he isn’t usually that over and surely everyone knew that was coming? Although I guess modern crowds just pop for things happening regardless of who they happen to. FUCK YEAH TITLE CHANGE! Get out and don’t come back. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really good match between Tyler Bate & Trent Seven for the UK Title on NXT tonight. Seven I'm still kinda meh on but I really enjoyed Bate's performance and the match got a lot better the longer it went. *** 1/2

BTW for anyone that hasn't read about or seen this, they're taping Roode vs. Hero for the NXT Title next week. Rushing into things much? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831261649046679557


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... Dustin Rhodes!!! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-dustin-rhodes/


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched what I wanted from EC. I really liked Lynch/Mickie. I never really thought of Mickie of anything other than somebody who was decent yet dragged down because she was surrounded by shit people, but here she looked legit good. Really aggressive during her offense so it came off pretty hateful even though the moves were pretty standard wrestling. Unlike some who say they DESPISE their opponent then mat wrestle them (wait for it). I don't really want to say this because I'd rather not even think of them as "different", but I'm all over the women's division in WWE right now. 

handicap match has Ziggler SKIP

I was going to watch the tag turmoil b/c I like American Alpha but I don't care enough about them to sit through every other team. Plus I watched the one at Wrestle Kingdom and it was exhausting/kind of shit so the bad taste is still there. I thought the Usos had a fun short promo this week where they came off as thugs pretty well, I think if they were repackaged into a full on Gangstas-style gimmick where they spend every match brawling I think it might work.

Nattie/Nikki I didn't finish. Nattie personality wise is a decently natural heel but her wrestling is such a fucking turn off. I liked the video package because it made it seem like Nattie despised Nikki (and y'know, she outright said it), and it showed them brawling backstage and just hating the fuck out of each other. Oh but no Nattie's the WRESTLER. The commentators said she wants to outWRESTLE Nikki. Whatever. Don't attack someone backstage with a steel pipe and say you despise them only spend the match using waistlock takedowns. I've been thinking this about Nattie for years. We get it, you can execute a move. Like I said I didn't finish this but the short backstage brawl they had where cocaine got spilled on someone was actually much better than this match. They got a FCA this week. Nikki gonna get a waistlock takedown onto a whole buncha kendo sticks.

Orton/Harper was good. I don't remember a whole lot about it, though. I liked it more than you'd think based on this bit here. Uh, trust me.

I've shit on chamber matches as a whole in the past but I think I'm indifferent to them now. They usually provide one good chickenshit heel moment (like the Miz/Corbin thing here), but I watch the match staring through the screen. And I don't care how much I see it, I will never not cringe at those 3-man spots. Like the sunset flip powerbomb off of the top turnbuckle thing. Ugh. Styles was so awesome in this though. His bumping is honestly unbelievably good. I really don't fucking care about Ambrose right now. Like honestly he does almost zero for me and I feel myself liking him less and less the more I see him. It's getting that way with Wyatt too. Corbin is whatever to me. He can be main event tomorrow, he can be released tomorrow, I won't feel like something is off either way. I'd obviously rather he not lose his job but you get what I mean, purely from a 'product' view he can be anywhere on the card (or off of it) and I won't like or dislike it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched the Rise and Fall of ECW doc for the first time in years and years. The Network is such a great way to bundle all this stuff together. I didn't even remember there being a Rise and Fall of WCW. What's it like in comparison to the ECW one?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched the Rise and Fall of ECW doc for the first time in years and years. The Network is such a great way to bundle all this stuff together. I didn't even remember there being a Rise and Fall of WCW. *What's it like in comparison to the ECW one?*


It's worth a watch but it's nowhere near as in depth as the ECW one. I think it's like 45 minutes-1 hour shorter too, but at the same time that ECW doc is one of the longest they've ever made.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Vader/Bossman (Guardian Angel) earlier from BATB. Not as good as their classic Spring Stampede match, but it was still a solid match, but with a shitty finish. We get the usual power moves by both, and it's always a sight to see someone tossing Vader around. But Vader, fuck - He busts out a 

*SPINNING WHEEL KICK*










And a *DAMNED SUNSET FLIP*










Woah. 

He even busts out an STF variant later on too. Decent match like i said, but not quite on the level of SS. Might watch their Fall Brawl match later. I always love how easy Vader makes this and the Vadersault look.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*Diesel Vs. Jeff Jarrett*. Champion Vs. Champion. RAW 2/20/1995

Surprisingly good match here. They had in-chemistry and the crowd was loud for this. Check it out if you get a chance.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Maybe it's because the rest of the show was the drizzling shits, but that was an honest to god _good_ main event between Big Show & Strowman. The match didn't even start until after 11 so I thought it would be short a shit but they created some great drama and the crowd was way into it (which is shocking tbh). Liked the superplex tease and the match would've been even better if Strowman had actually caught him off the rope in that running powerslam. ***

Real highlight of the show was Charly Caruso in that dress though. Oh my GAWD :done


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

MONDAY NIGHT BRAUN 

:mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

BRAUN vs. Show - ************

BRAUNNNNN :mark::mark:


Charly popping out of that dress was also **********


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BRAUN :mark:

DDP in the HALL OF FAME :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...no-dq-wcw-fall-brawl-2000-a.html#post65803529

Goldberg/Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000 review up in the new column section.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nikki/Nattie Falls Count Anywhere - *** (Pretty good brawl that I had fun with. Not sure how I feel about the finish though but it was definitely unexpected)

Battle Royal - ***+ mark: I LOVE Battle Royals and this one was a blast with tons of actions and continued stories. Unfortunately, virtually nothing happened between Styles & Harper as the final two and the handling of the "draw" finish was pretty awful. No replay because _clearly_ AJ's feet hit first without question. Interesting to see if this will end in us getting a 4 way or if AJ is left out.)

Looks like Cena & Nikki vs. Miz & Maryse is pretty much set in stone. Don't really care about the match but tbh the booking to get to this point has been pretty clever.

Nese/Gallagher from 205 Live - *** (Nothing to go out of your way to see but a very solid Daniel Bryan-like performance from Gallagher with the stalled superplex and the ridiculous arm stretch early in the match)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...no-dq-wcw-fall-brawl-2000-a.html#post65803529
> 
> Goldberg/Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000 review up in the new column section.


one of my favourite matches. (Y)


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

After a truly terrible Raw, this episode of SmackDown felt pretty good… even though it wasn’t. It was sloppy, predictable, clusterfuck of booking. It seems like they’ve built the ‘Mania card so poorly they leaked it all ahead of schedule to actually help the audience as it looks like along with everything else, that Nikki Bella retirement tag match with her fella is happening at ‘Mania along with the New Wyatt Triple Threat just like the “rumours” said. Gotta question the point of this year’s Rumble though if Orton can just decline his prize and then SmackDown can do their own mini Rumble to replace him, just like that?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

One of the more embarrassing HHH ego strokes where the host guy claims HHH beat Goldberg clean, yet proceeds to describe how Batista interfered in the match to help HHH get the win. 

I can't believe WWE aren't bringing this up more right now, though. Goldberg's never been beaten clean. Even if you say HHH beat him clean in the 3 way above (b/c that's not a DQ in a 3 way blah blah blah), he's never been beaten clean without interference, and never been beaten clean in a singles match. Does @Brock or anyone else know how often the jackhammer has ever been kicked out of? I'd be willing to watch every Goldberg match to find out one of these days.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> One of the more embarrassing HHH ego strokes where the host guy claims HHH beat Goldberg clean, yet proceeds to describe how Batista interfered in the match to help HHH get the win.
> 
> I can't believe WWE aren't bringing this up more right now, though. Goldberg's never been beaten clean. Even if you say HHH beat him clean in the 3 way above (b/c that's not a DQ in a 3 way blah blah blah), he's never been beaten clean without interference, and never been beaten clean in a singles match. Does @Brock or anyone else know how often the jackhammer has ever been kicked out of? I'd be willing to watch every Goldberg match to find out one of these days.


There was a four way match in which Hogan kicked out of the Jackhammer, only because Nash was supposed to break the pin up but was too slow getting to the ring (intentional? :hmm: who knows). Just trying to remember the match........... Flair/Hogan/DDP/Goldberg in April '99

@Yeah1993

But it's never been classified as an official kick out I don't think so technically it doesn't/shouldn't count.

You're right tho, WWE really should bring up the fact that it's so protected up tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Yeah1993

This is what happened. Nash doesn't come out of it smelling of roses IMO. Still, they just treat it like it happened like it was supposed to TBH so it doesn't count as a kick out TBH. So nobody has legit kicked out of the Jackhammer.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I think Brock might kick out of it at Mania! Maybe even twice! *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

seabs said:


> *I think Brock might kick out of it at Mania! Maybe even twice! *


Think he only kicked out of a Spear in that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> Think he only kicked out of a Spear in that match.


think seabs means this upcoming WM, cal


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SHUT UP BROCK :side:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

:cal2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Words hurt. But pictures of my face being censored are worse


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

A week where Strowman was involved in the best match of the week (WWE) - who'd have thought it? :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> @Yeah1993
> 
> This is what happened. Nash doesn't come out of it smelling of roses IMO. Still, they just treat it like it happened like it was supposed to TBH so it doesn't count as a kick out TBH. So nobody has legit kicked out of the Jackhammer.


I like how he didn't hurry under the ropes but instead spent two seconds going over them. Kayfabe I love the idea of the jackhammer being the most lethal move in history, and if only one person has ever kicked out of it - it was Hulk motherfucking Hogan. I need a Goldberg career comp.

Seabs is right though they'll likely change this at Mania.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know Goldberg is 50 and all that, but he's still Goldberg, in WWE, not some cheap Indy fed. If Brock beats him clean and kicks out of a Jackhammer, it'll still be hella weird tbh. Saying that, it's what we all expected at Survivor Series.

But yeah, nobody has legit kicked out of the Jackhammer. Combine that with Goldberg not losing completely clean and it's one helluva accolade.

Does anyone count losing clean in a no DQ match? Cos I'm not really one of those tbh as someone bought up Elimination Chamber 2003 when HHH pinned him..............after a sledgehammer shot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It might be no DQ, but for me doesn't make it clean. I just can't say a match that ends with a sledgehammer to the head is clean lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Somebody passed him the sledgehammer through the cage IIRC so that's still an interference to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone? SOMEONE? You mean RIC FUCKING FLAIR.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Strong episode of NXT this week. I felt inclined to watch the whole thing and that's a definite rarity.

#1 Contender's Match: Ember Moon vs. Peyton Royce vs. Liv Morgan - *** (Solid 3-way and smartly worked from Royce)

Pete Dunne vs. Mark Andrews - *** 3/4 mark: The chemistry between these two is unreal)

Roode vs. No Way Jose wasn't anything special but it set up the Ohno return so that was cool. He's so fucking fat that it's tough to take him seriously. :lol

Asuka vs. Royce for the Women's Title and an Authors of Pain/DIY rematch for the Tag Titles next week! :woo


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New NXT… Did Dillinger say “Robert Strong”? This whole segment was weird, accosting him outside of the door bless him lol. 

Wow, Pete Dunne and Mark Andrews, take a bow. I realise I may have oversold the Tyler Bate NXT matches this month as I’m a total mark for British Strong Style but there really was no marking required for this match, it was fantastic. I mean they basically started marketing this match the night beforehand and no title was on the line but it was actually a far, far, superior match to the UK Title’s first defence last week which may be why they marketed that match for weeks. 

I didn’t know this but I have been reading about it but outside of kayfabe Mark Andrews and Pete Dunne have quite the history. So this match here, both their NXT debuts, seems very fitting. Like if this match was built as a statement to say “The UK Division is here!” this match to me makes that statement the best yet. The guys are the antithesis of one another and they go out and try and wrestle their own match, getting each other over by the contrast and uniqueness of their own individual styles. Andrews is trying to keep the match moving at a pace so he can use his high flying offence while Dunne tries to slow the match down, get it down to the mat which not only cancels out Andrew’s primary weapons but allows Dunne to use his own methods of torture. 

February 2017 wasn’t a great month for WWE in terms of the quality of the matches they put on but then out of nowhere they pull out what will probably go down as one of my favourite matches from WWE all year. 

Weird they started with effectively the biggest match on this weeks NXT and followed it up with two exhibition matches. I suppose women in WWE though, lol. 

I don’t really understand what the hell they are doing with any of these women but I’d still rather be a woman on NXT than either SDL or especially Raw. If this results in the belt finally getting off of Asuka then great, I don’t really see that happening, but there has to be a point to all this, right? The match itself was okay, Ember Moon is a great wrestler but they had her effectively lying on the outside for like 99% of the match leaving Liv Morgan and Peyton Royce to do most of the work. Nothing wrong with that both are coming along nicely but I do think if they let Ember Moon do more in the match she could have also getting more out of the match in turn. At least there was some decent character work during this time.

Don’t care about Jose/Roode and the match only existed to reintroduce Kassius Ohno (really, didn’t want to stick with Chris Hero?) so I had no issue with skipping straight to the finish. Ohno’s theme is so bad and the dude looks so out of shape. Nice stiff shots from the guy, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...hansen-wwf-ajpw-4-13-1990-a.html#post65865593

Hogan/Hansen review up in the columns section


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

ROYAL RUMBLE 1990

Greg Valentine vs. Ronnie Garvin (Submission Match)

This match is GREAT. Holy fuck, the first few minutes are Valentine and Garvin just beating the LIVING SHIT out of each other with chops and punches. Literally some of those shots made me wince. Jesus.

Never lets up after that.Too many pinfall attempts but still, by god this was amazing. Especially straight after two matches involving the Bushwhackers and Brutus Beefcake.

****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Classic Intercourse said:


> ROYAL RUMBLE 1990
> 
> Greg Valentine vs. Ronnie Garvin (Submission Match)
> 
> ...


I watched this myself last month on my 1990 project:

*Ron Garvin vs. Greg Valentine (Submission Match) (Rumble 1/21/90)*

I first have to admit; I was never a big fan of 'Rugged Ronnie Garvin' as a kid. Years later, people tell me he was a solid wrestler that i should watch more of, so here we go with one match. These two i know had a few matches in 89 leading up to this one.

So this is a submission match, yeah. So what is the first thing Garvin does after giving Valentine one hell of a stiff looking punch? Armbar? Figure-Four?

Nope. He tries to pin him. I guess it was their way of reminding the audience it was an I Quit Match. 

We get a few more pin attempts throughout the match too, which Jesse tries to cover up by claiming that "Because wrestlers are so used to pinning people, it just comes natural to them to do that" Think they should have stopped at the first pin attempt, rather than going for more in the match.

But despite that, i really enjoyed this TBH. It's two tough bastards who hate each other, beating the shit out of each other, with some super stiff shots, super stiff. Valentine always looks stoned lol and does play that dazed bloke well when he gets hit and does his own belly flop to the mat.

Really good match overall, that surprisingly got plenty of time too. Quite a novel WWF match, that seemed something right out of NWA. 

A war.










Oh, and this spot. Valentine had a brace on his leg, so the 'pain' of the hold wasn't in full effect to Rugged Ronnie.

They had some stiff battles in '89 too and I'd like to check one of those out soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Loved that match since I first saw it back when I got the RR Anthology set and began my first ROYAL RUMBLE RAMBLES (Started them about a decade ago!). Seen a couple of their other matches and sadly they didn't hold up to that one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (No Holds Barred) (WWE Intercontinental Championship) (WWE Backlash 2004)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...ionship-wwe-backlash-2004-a.html#post65895697

Review up in the columns section  Fuck i LOVED this.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The strangest thing happened yesterday morning. I woke up around 11ish, turned on the TV and Wrestle Kingdom 11 was about to start on AXSTv on Sling. I thought why the hell not. So I watched Okada/Omega as my first foray into anything from NJPW. My first thoughts are that it was...different. I mean different as in the overall presentation of the show. But good different. As for the match itself? I was expecting there to be a drastic difference in the Japan style and 'WWE style' since I hear it talked about so often but I have to say that it was minimal for me. Obviously they did things you'll never see in a WWE ring but I wouldn't necessarily say there was a whole lot that would separate it from a standard big time WWE main event tbh. Going into this I knew absolutely nothing about Okada and only a little about Kenny Omega but damn, this was great stuff. I know it's the '6 star match' according to Meltzer and everything so I wasn't too sure what to expect, but I really liked it.

I thought I'd throw it out there though, is there some huge difference in the styles of NJPW and WWE that I'm missing here? Because I don't think there's a lot that separates the latter half of this match from say, Cena/Styles at the Rumble last month. I'd definitely say Okada/Omega wasn't AS finisher festy as Cena/Styles but it was right in that ballpark imo.

On the Goldberg/Lesnar discussion, I hope Bork squashes Goldy at Mania. It's the only way.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> The strangest thing happened yesterday morning. I woke up around 11ish, turned on the TV and Wrestle Kingdom 11 was about to start on AXSTv on Sling. I thought why the hell not. So I watched Okada/Omega as my first foray into anything from NJPW. My first thoughts are that it was...different. I mean different as in the overall presentation of the show. But good different. As for the match itself? I was expecting there to be a drastic difference in the Japan style and 'WWE style' since I hear it talked about so often but I have to say that it was minimal for me. Obviously they did things you'll never see in a WWE ring but I wouldn't necessarily say there was a whole lot that would separate it from a standard big time WWE main event tbh. Going into this I knew absolutely nothing about Okada and only a little about Kenny Omega but damn, this was great stuff. I know it's the '6 star match' according to Meltzer and everything so I wasn't too sure what to expect, but I really liked it.
> 
> I thought I'd throw it out there though, is there some huge difference in the styles of NJPW and WWE that I'm missing here? Because I don't think there's a lot that separates the latter half of this match from say, Cena/Styles at the Rumble last month. I'd definitely say Okada/Omega wasn't AS finisher festy as Cena/Styles but it was right in that ballpark imo.
> 
> On the Goldberg/Lesnar discussion, I hope Bork squashes Goldy at Mania. It's the only way.


Tbf I don't think Okada/Omega was the best match to look at and try to figure out the difference between New Japan and WWE's main events. That was pretty reminiscent of a WWE style match to me with the table bump and the finishers/big moves in the back half (especially moreso towards the amount of Rainmakers he had to use in reference to how many AAs Cena does these days). Really if I had to pick one thing that differentiates the two it's probably that New Japan tends to be more story driven with limbwork and that 90% of the time the big matches go a LOT longer. Okada/Omega was 45 minutes, Okada/Suzuki went 40, and Elgin/Naito was 36 iirc. It's a huge rarity to see a WWE singles match go 30+.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Corey said:


> Tbf I don't think Okada/Omega was the best match to look at and try to figure out the difference between New Japan and WWE's main events. That was pretty reminiscent of a WWE style match to me with the table bump and the finishers/big moves in the back half (especially moreso towards the amount of Rainmakers he had to use in reference to how many AAs Cena does these days). Really if I had to pick one thing that differentiates the two it's probably that New Japan tends to be more story driven with limbwork and that 90% of the time the big matches go a LOT longer. Okada/Omega was 45 minutes, Okada/Suzuki went 40, and Elgin/Naito was 36 iirc. It's a huge rarity to see a WWE singles match go 30+.


This is exactly why I got a bit confused. Table bumps and finisher kickouts etc. For somebody who has never seen a NJPW match before and to know beforehand that there is (supposedly lol) a marked difference in style between the two, I was a little lost trying to figure out what that different was supposed to be. 100% on the length though. And I could have easily watched it go another 40 minutes. I guess since I have that channel now and they have NJPW on demand I can go check some more matches out. 

Shoutout to Sling TV Blue subscription btw. It has USA so live Raw/SD every week, it has El Rey Network so Lucha Underground live and on demand and now I know it has AXS TV with NJPW live and on demand too. $25 a month!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy shit, guys. I just bought tickets to a Smackdown live event in Fairfax in a couple weeks and idk if I've ever been this hyped for a show just based on buying tickets. :lol I got seventh row floor seats RIGHT next to the entrance way! :woo Never been that close in my life and only the 2nd time I've been on the floor. Best part about it is the double main event. They're advertising two matches that have never happened on WWE television before:

Wyatt vs. Harper (w/ Orton at ringside) :mark:
Ambrose vs. Styles vs. Corbin for the IC Title :mark:

Get to be a few feet away from that Bliss booty too :zayn3


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Corey said:


> It's a huge rarity to see a WWE singles match go 30+.


Thank fuck for that.

Honestly, nowadays it's rare that I have the patience to see more than a few matches that go past 30 minutes. It's a big part of the reason I haven't rewatched much of the All Japan stuff I need to, after 5 or 6 years without checking them out.

If there's one thing I can appreciate about the WWE over New Japan, it's that when they do put on a great match, they don't feel the need to have it go for 45 fuckin' minutes for no apparent reason. I have other shit to do, Gedo, goddammit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not to mention Okada/Omega had around 25 minutes of absolute nothing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can someone rec some WCW matches from the 98-99 period involving Raven/Saturn/Benoit etc? I know there are some tags that are good that i still havn't seen. I seem to remember a really good Raven/Jericho match in there somewhere, too.


----------



## moveznflips_ (Jan 30, 2017)

Someone mind giving me a tip on whether I should download Raw 2003 or 2008 from XWT? 
There's no seeders for 540p, and the 720p is a whopping 150gb+
Which year of Raw between 2003 and 2008 is overall best? (not just in terms of match quality)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

moveznflips_ said:


> Someone mind giving me a tip on whether I should download Raw 2003 or 2008 from XWT?
> There's no seeders for 540p, and the 720p is a whopping 150gb+
> Which year of Raw between 2003 and 2008 is overall best? (not just in terms of match quality)


Raw 04 is probs the only year you really need from those years. 03 is mostly awful. 05 has some good, but tons of bad. 06 is a mixed bag, same for 07 and 08.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

moveznflips_ said:


> Someone mind giving me a tip on whether I should download Raw 2003 or 2008 from XWT?
> There's no seeders for 540p, and the 720p is a whopping 150gb+
> Which year of Raw between 2003 and 2008 is overall best? (not just in terms of match quality)


Bruh, $9.99 is your friend lol.


----------



## moveznflips_ (Jan 30, 2017)

Starbuck said:


> Bruh, $9.99 is your friend lol.


lol why would I pay 9.99 every month when I can just download everything I want on the Network straight from XWT, not pay anything, organise and store it all on my external hard drive. Have all that content without any need for internet, paying for it, buffering, ads, all customised exactly the way I want. 
I have currently 2.5TB of the Network on my external hard drive, 720p (same as Network). It's my own fully customisable WWE Network. Same video quality and content, better flexibility, zero price. I just keep downloading more and more, whatever I feel like.
I don't live in Murica so it's all legal too.

Bruh


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

moveznflips_ said:


> lol why would I pay 9.99 every month when I can just download everything I want on the Network straight from XWT, not pay anything, organise and store it all on my external hard drive. Have all that content without any need for internet, paying for it, buffering, ads, all customised exactly the way I want.
> I have currently 2.5TB of the Network on my external hard drive, 720p (same as Network). It's my own customisable WWE Network, same video quality and content, better flexibility, zero price.
> I don't live in Murica so it's all legal too.
> 
> Bruh


:Out


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> Can someone rec some WCW matches from the 98-99 period involving Raven/Saturn/Benoit etc? I know there are some tags that are good that i still havn't seen. I seem to remember a really good Raven/Jericho match in there somewhere, too.


Raven/Saturn vs. Benoit/Malenko vs. Mysterio/Kidman - Slamboree '99
DDP vs. Benoit vs. Raven - Uncensored '98


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Joe/Cesaro coming :mark:

I'd probably consider chopping off one of my balls to see mid-2000's Joe just fucking massacre late-90's-2000 Foley in a 20-minute extended squash :vince5


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Trash edition of RAW. No point in watching anything outside of a good but forgettable match between Joe & Cesaro.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Another pretty weak Raw, this week, especially given this is the Go Home show for Fastlane but I am loving this whole Triple H/Rollins arc. That whole segment with Rollins and Graves was great and so was the stuff after with Triple H. 

I disliked the idea of Joe being an Authority heavy on his debut but he’s made that really work for him over the last few weeks. This episode he had the only match worth talking about against Cesaro (and yay for Zayn at the end!) and I really enjoyed the lead up to that with him wandering around with swagger backstage being an asshole to everyone. All that ego and hubris, I just can’t wait to see this all come apart like it always does.

And while the contract signing thing was kinda dumb I am so hyped for Reigns and Strowman at Fastlane, I’m so glad that they haven’t actually put them in a match leading into this PPV and have carried on giving us these teasing beatdowns. This is how it should be. I loved when Reigns killed that security guard.


In terms of the NJPW conversation, biggest difference I've seen in terms of NJPW matches and WWE matches is generally, at least in the big matches, a WWE match is likely to be about the third of the length of a NJPW but usually those two extra thirds for a NJPW match are usually pure filler with a finish that arrives in the last five or ten minutes of the match rarely lining up with all the action coming before it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Raven/Saturn vs. Benoit/Malenko vs. Mysterio/Kidman - Slamboree '99
> DDP vs. Benoit vs. Raven - Uncensored '98


(Y) 

Jericho/Raven at Road Wild was the other one I was trying to think of.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I'm giving Harper v. Styles **** 1/2*, had a bit of fun with it but it was a bit screwy and short for my taste.


----------



## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

Apollo Crews turning heel? That was quite a cheap shot


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Another top notch edition of Smackdown. Miz/Cena opening was fantastic. Cena dropping the fact that if he ran the show he'd be facing Undertaker at Mania was CRAZY. Breakin that 4th wall.

The ending with Orton/Wyatt was honestly cool as fuck. Idk what they're going for right now with the face/heel alignment but I don't think anyone's gonna boo Orton so hopefully they're not trying to push him as the heel. This rivalry has unfolded so beautifully though. Love it.

Styles vs. Harper was good shit for the time it lasted (*** 1/4). I know those two could have an absolutely incredible match together down the line. Despite AJ's win, it still looks like we're gonna get Styles/McMahon at Mania which I'm honestly fine with considering how we're getting there. It'll be heated once Shane tells him he's not getting his title match. Part of me hopes they make it a 4 way with Harper but he seems to be out of the picture for the time being despite clearly winning the battle royal last week.

No clear Mania match in sight right now for Joe, Strowman, Zayn, or Harper. Have to think one might be in line for the Andre Battle Royal victory... but who? This is what we're looking at right now:

Goldberg vs. Lesnar (Universal Title?)
Owens vs. Jericho (Universal Title?)
Taker vs. Reigns (I think Taker's music hits and costs Roman the win over Braun at Fastlane)
HHH vs. Rollins? (If Seth is still out I could possibly see Balor in this spot or a tag match with Joe involved or something)
Orton vs. Wyatt WWE Title
Styles vs. Shane O'Mac
Cena & Nikki vs. Miz & Maryse
Ambrose vs. Corbin IC Title
American Alpha vs. Usos SD Tag Titles
Gallows & Anderson v. Enzo & Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro RAW Tag Titles (guessing)
Charlotte vs. Bayley vs. Sasha vs. Nia RAW Women's
SD Women's Title Match (Alexa vs. Becky again? idk)
Andre Battle Royal?
Cruiserweight Title Match? Ladders involved?

Good GOD that's a lot of matches. :lol


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Talking about the only real angle that matters on SDL right now… what an absolute mess. 

It’s clear they’re just dragging this out to ‘Mania but it’s all so unnecessarily convoluted, what pay off are Styles OR Harper fans going to have after watching this program for weeks only for both men to now potentially get screwed anyway. I hate when wrestling promotions render their own product pointless through their own bad booking. 

I did actually genuinely quite like how dark Orton’s turn was at the end there but this just makes no bloody sense, nothing about the New Wyatt story has made sense and it’s just so frustrating. Especially when you see much better talent than the people central effectively just getting thrown under the bus to keep this shit churning. 

I mean was Harper/Styles a great match because both men know they are going to have nothing to do at ‘Mania and are making the most of their spots? Because if that is the case, that is just sad. Bray Wyatt is awful and doesn’t deserve either of their spots. The irony if this match ends up being better than the SDL Title ‘Mania Event, which it probably will be if they settle on Orton/Wyatt right back to that filler match from a PPV six or so months ago.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Another top notch edition of Smackdown. Miz/Cena opening was fantastic. Cena dropping the fact that if he ran the show he'd be facing Undertaker at Mania was CRAZY. Breakin that 4th wall.
> 
> The ending with Orton/Wyatt was honestly cool as fuck. Idk what they're going for right now with the face/heel alignment but I don't think anyone's gonna boo Orton so hopefully they're not trying to push him as the heel. This rivalry has unfolded so beautifully though. Love it.
> 
> ...


Ugh, that's one bowling shoe ugly-looking card on paper. Positivity remains unachievable for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pizzamorg said:


> Talking about the only real angle that matters on SDL right now… what an absolute mess.
> 
> It’s clear they’re just dragging this out to ‘Mania but it’s all so unnecessarily convoluted, what pay off are Styles OR Harper fans going to have after watching this program for weeks only for both men to now potentially get screwed anyway. I hate when wrestling promotions render their own product pointless through their own bad booking.
> 
> ...


The best pay off would be for them to just make the title match a 4-way at Mania so everyone's happy, but I don't think they're gonna do it. Shane will likely prevent AJ from getting his shot and that'll lead to their match together. Harper may honestly be left in the cold but idk. 

I personally like how long this is taking because it's keeping things unpredictable for the time being. There's still like 5 weeks until Mania and if they had pulled the trigger on Orton turning a while back we would just have the same old shit happening on TV every week for a month straight, basically like we're seeing on RAW recently and we know how shitty that's been. They're making use of all the time time they've got between PPVs and I'm glad they are.

I may not like all the matches they've made or are going to make for Mania, but I can honestly appreciate some of the booking that's gotten us there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Cena dropping the fact that if he ran the show he'd be facing Undertaker at Mania was CRAZY.


:cenaooh

Do find it odd how it was apparently a dead cert last year before Cena got hurt, but Vince has seemingly soured on doing it this year.

But Roman. Yeah.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Brock said:


> :cenaooh
> 
> Do find it odd how it was apparently a dead cert last year before Cena got hurt, but Vince has seemingly soured on doing it this year.
> 
> But Roman. Yeah.


If this is Undertaker last stand then I could see why Roman is getting the nod. No matter how many people don't buy it Vince wants Roman Reigns in the same breath as Hogan/Austin/Rock/Triple H/Cena and the only way they can even pretend to sell him on that level is if he beats Undertaker at Wrestlemania, Lesnar at Summerslam and Cena sometime next year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Hardcore Show said:


> if he beats Undertaker at Wrestlemania, Lesnar at Summerslam and Cena sometime next year.


Gross.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs. The Boss (WCW Spring Stampede 1994)*

Review up in the columns section 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...-wcw-spring-stampede-1994-a.html#post65975641


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jushin 'Thunder' Liger vs. Great Sasuke (Super J Cup 1994)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...t-sasuke-super-j-cup-1994-a.html#post65995793

Review up in the columns section


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton vs. Styles made official for Smackdown next week. Winner gets Wyatt at Wrestlemania. Sucks that their first ever meeting doesn't have more build and isn't happening on PPV, but god damn I love Smackdown. :done


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania 8)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...ampionship-wrestlemania-8-a.html#post66026553

Review up in the columns section


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't caught up with WWE this past week yet but the idea that the Royal Rumble winner has turned down his title shot, and now has to wrestle for it on SmackDown is almost "too" big a WWE move.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't caught up with WWE this past week yet but the idea that the Royal Rumble winner has turned down his title shot, and now has to wrestle for it on SmackDown is almost "too" big a WWE move.


To be fair, I was also a bit 'eeh' about it but looking at it, it's almost makes sense? :lol

It's like winning something, then turning down the prize only for the prize to then go to someone else. You then decide you want the prize but because the other guy now has it, you have to face him for the prize.

I just look at it as a way to further Styles/Shane though. AJ Styles will lose (hopefully via fuckery) and Styles will be annoyed that he had to wrestle THREE times to get a shot at Wrestlemania. In his eyes he won the battle royal (even though his and Harpers feet touched at the same time), he then BEAT Harper and now he has to go through Orton instead of them just making it a triple threat etc.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Still holding out hope that they abandon having anything to do with Shane and make the match a 4 way. Would be the first 4 way for the WWE Title since Mania 2000 and Harper _clearly_ won that damn battle royal. :lol

In relevant news to that, my main event in Fairfax has been changed to Wyatt vs. Styles vs. Harper! :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

If they won't do a fatal four-way I hope they at least change course and do an SD vs. Raw match between Styles and Balor. Fuck Shane.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Fastlane 2017

Joe/Zayn-***
Club/Enzo & Cass-**
Sasha/Nia-**1/2
Cesaro/Jinder-*1/2
Show/Rusev-*3/4
Neville/Jack-***3/4
Braun/Roman-***1/4
Bayley/Charlotte-**3/4
KO/Goldy-DUD

Terrible show, even worse than I expected. Neville and Jack had the only real highlight of the night in a hard hitting and well paced title match.

Between the stalling, bad booking, and a terrible finish this show had a little bit of everything you don't want.

And to top it off the actual wrestling wasn't good either.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Maybe I'm being too overly positive but I thought that was a solid PPV from an in-ring standpoint, until you get to the booking of the last 20 minutes of the show. That's kinda puzzling. Nothing to go out of your way to see and there wasn't much to separate it from matches you'd see on RAW, but man Gallagher/Neville was awesome.

Samoa Joe vs. Sami Zayn - *** 3/4* (Underwhelming match because I guess they didn't want Zayn to get much offense in in order to keep Joe looking strong. Only went like 10 minutes)

*RAW Tag Team Titles:* Gallows & Anderson (c) vs. Enzo & Cass - ***** (I enjoyed this and it got pretty hot down the stretch. FIP segment with Enzo was good and the finish was pulled off pretty nicely. Nothing you'll remember a month or two from now though)

Saha Banks vs. Nia Jax - **** 1/4* (I loved this. Nia threw her around and dominated until Sasha could find any way possible to make a comeback. Bank statement was great and the finish looked beautiful)

Cesaro vs. Jinder Mahal - *** 1/4* (Don't remember anything that Mahal did but Cesaro sold his back injury incredibly well. Nothing bad at all about this. Felt like a main event of Superstars)

Big Show vs. Rusev - *** 1/2* (Aside from the finish being COMPLETELY unnecessary, I didn't really mind this either. Big Show was working hard and Rusev got a couple spots in now and there. Still though, what the fuck was that finish?)

*Cruiserweight Title:* Neville (c) vs. Jack Gallagher - **** 3/4* (Fucking fantastic match and performance from Jack. He sold the nasty ass german suplex to perfection followed up with those sick headbutts where he acted like he had no idea what was going on. Forcing Neville to revert back to his old high flying ways was a nice touch as well. MOTN)

Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman - **** 1/2* (Did Roman steal Shane O'Mac's shoes? :lmao Wtf was that? Anyway, slow start but for the most part a really good match. Strowman was dominant and even got to kick out of the spear. Liked the table spot and of course Braun flying halfway across the ring. Would've preferred more chaos though. Should've been a barricade spot, steel steps, etc. I want chaos! Roman winning is whatever. His push will never end.)

*RAW Women's Title:* Bayley (c) vs. Charlotte - ***** (A good match that unfortunately went too long and had a god awful finish. I have no idea why there wasn't a DQ. Completely wasted Charlotte's first PPV loss. Had some nice bumps throughout but their worst PPV match together)

*Universal Championship:* Kevin Owens (c) vs. Goldberg - *N/R* (All of that stalling for 21 seconds. Basically what my expectation was, but I thought they might go a different route. Oh well. Disappointed due to the lack of Taker and Lesnar though. Lose to Lesnar and go away Goldberg.)


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I'd try to give starz for this crap, but I only watched like... three matches. Two if you don't count the main event, and I probably shouldn't :lol

Joe/Zayn was okay, nothing special; Gallagher/Neville was definitely MOTN, pretty good stuff, about ***1/2.

I honestly can't take half of the wrestlers that where on this card seriously. I didn't even consider watching The Club VS Enzo & Cass, I went and watched this shitty-ass podcast with a terrible, terrible sort of motivational speaker/writer from my country which was dumb and bored me to hell and yet I couldn't help but think "at least I'm not watching those four fucks". 

Enzo & Cass don't do anything for me anymore, really. Cass hasn't improved worth a shit, Enzo is impossible to take seriously because I believe he really is the lowest in the kayfabe pecking order on the entire roster, Charles Robinson could probably take him. Gordon fucking Ramsay on Kitchen Nightmares hasn't eaten anything nearly as bland as Gallows & Anderson are at this point.

Also I wasn't paying attention to most of the PPV, so when I checked back to see Jinder and Rusev fighting, followed by Cesaro and Jinder fighting, then Rusev and Show, I just thought "wtf, this is all ONE MATCH? Is this a Fatal 4-Way?" which really would've made about as much sense as what actually happened :lmao

Edit: Oh yeah, I watched Reigns/Strowman too. Guess I just repressed it already. It was a'ight; no comment on the finish.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah my expectations were pretty low so that probably helped my enjoyment. I honestly forgot all about the PPV happening until last night. :lol Will likely be one of the weakest shows of the year by the end I'm sure.

Disappointing to see so many negative or blah reactions to Nia vs. Sasha. That was one smartly worked and darn good match for 8 and a half minutes.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Joe v. Zayn: _***1/4_

Club v. Enzo & Cass: _**1/2_

Sasha v. Nia: _*1/2_

Cesaro v. Jinder: _*_

Show v. Rusev: _**1/2_

Neville v. Gallagher: _****_; I freaking loved this match, Jack and Neville put on a damn clinic. I could have watched these guys go forever, but they put on a great show. I hope I get to see them have many more matches in the future, I would actually care about the CW division.

Braun v. Roman: _***_; It was a good match. I am so impressed with Braun, that man is an athlete and really fun to watch.

Bayley v. Charlotte: _**_

KO v. Goldberg: _DUD_; I would have preferred a straight squash to that mess of a "match".


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That show was the drizzling shits and fuck Goldberg. Raw is the WOAT.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Joe/Zayn-***1/4
Club/Enzo & Cass-**
Sasha/Nia-**
Cesaro/Jinder-*
Show/Rusev-*3/4
Neville/Jack-***3/4
Braun/Roman-**
Bayley/Charlotte-**1/2
KO/Goldy-DUD

Bad show.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chris Kanyon lasted longer against Goldberg than the WWE World Heavyweight champion. Just :maury



Corey said:


> In relevant news to that, my main event in Fairfax has been changed to Wyatt vs. Styles vs. Harper! :mark:


They've done Styles/Wyatt and Harper/Wyatt one-onone as well as in tag (Harper/Cena vs Orton/Wyatt). I don't think that match has happened on a house show, yet.

All of Wyatt's singles matches have been given quite a lot of time, and he's a far better wrestler at a live event than he is on TV. That should be blast of a three way!


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Show started off real good but then really fell off the cliff. Tag on the pre-show was good. Tozawa has a scream that people can chant along with which has instantly got him more over than the vast majority of the cruiserweights. Thought he looked way better in this than he ever did in the CWC. Joe/Zayn was very good for what it was which was exactly what it needed to be. Joe looked great and Zayn looked like somewhat of a somebody while not taking anything away from Joe. Tag Titles match was bad. Neither team are good. Authors of Pain are a million times better team than Anderson & Gallows. I thought Sasha/Jax was good. Nia's control segments are good but they're missing something to make them really stand out. Something like a little more pace or intensity to parts of it. Torture rack sequence ruled. Callback to Bayley/Jax from London was very likely intentional and awesome. Sasha winning is fine. She needed a win and Jax will get her heat back by destroying people on TV. Cole just blatantly lying about Jax's only blemish being against Bayley when she tapped out to Becky Lynch on a pretty major show is why the current WWE product sucks in a nutshell. Nia only ever losing because she gets over confident and keeps making rookie mistakes is the best story in WWE that nobody is telling. That whole Rusev/Jinder part of the show was total filler and it's like jesus christ, we don't need filler matches on a 4 hour show. A 2 and a half hour PPV excluding the pre-show is perfectly acceptable. Jinder's physique is disgusting. Even if he got that through nothing but hard work and dedication someone should tell him to cut that shit out. I am not watching a Jinder Mahal match even against Cesaro. Rusev/Show was kinda good if you could figure out who you were supposed to root for. Rusev being booked as a babyface is nothing new but this really felt like they were booking him with a turn in mind. Finish was all kinds of weird. Show came off like a massive jackass and made you feel sympathy for Rusev. I guess Show/Shaq is indeed off now and they're doing their best to heat Show up for a big match with someone. I'd say Strowman after their Raw match got over. I meant to mention this in the Joe/Zayn match but can refs at least pretend that closed fist punches are illegal please. Joe is jabbing away at Zayn and all the ref can say is "keep protecting yourself Sami". That line crept in during the CWC and it's honestly the dumbest thing a wrestling promotion has ever done. Pro wrestlers, make sure you protect yourselves at all times. Fuck me. Neville/Gallagher was good. Pacing was meh, felt a bit too stop start and they never really got much momentum going. Gallagher is unique which helps me so much in a company where everyone has to be the same. I thought the commentary was really great in this, Cole included. They never said anything stupid and they put over a good handful of little stories within the match that the wrestlers themselves couldn't. Things like Cole bringing up Neville going to the outside because he's not worried about Gallagher flying at him which had an awesome payoff and Cole bringing up that Neville hasn't been using the Red Arrow to beat these cruiserweight geeks were really great. You could really tell that Aries was toning down on the heel shtick too which was really great given he's very likely debuting as Neville's babyface opponent for Mania. Reigns/Strowman largely bored me. Reigns looked like the guy who forgot his PE kit and had to do it in his trainers. Braun has definitely got good but his control segments in this and the Show match were both dreadfully boring. This should have been a 10 minute slugfest but instead it turned into the type of match Reigns would work with someone like Luke Harper. Finish is what it is. They'll still push Strowman hard so he'll be fine. Surely Reigns has to be turning to beat Taker at Mania. Surely. Charlotte/Bayley wasn't good. They never got the crowd into it from the start but then they lost them more and more as the match went on. Finish was horrendous. Cole was trying to make up WWE's own narrative again with claiming Bayley didn't know Sasha had come out even though she was sat right next to her when she hit the B2B. Charlotte got totally screwed by Sasha who came out for no reason at all and Bayley will continue to take the wins by any means as long as she's champion. And Charlotte is the one who's the heel. This was such a weird way to end the Charlotte PPV streak that they fucked Sasha over so bad to make a big deal of. Goldberg/Owens was what it was. Owens had good heel shtick for once with his delaying tactics. The match itself was what it should be. Goldberg is a much bigger star than Owens and is on the bigger match at Mania. Plus that's his gimmick. People don't buy Owens as a top guy anyway way before Goldberg ran through him. I wouldn't have done the Jericho run in because Goldberg didn't need it at all. The heat is already there between them two. I guess it's fine but I would have gone with Goldberg just running through him no assistance required. 

Mania looks even worse than the recent standard right now. I'm looking forward to Goldberg/Lesnar. Should be a spectacle and they could do anything with the match. Suspense in what direction matches go is the selling point for me now. Not like I'm likely to rate the "WWE Epic" match very highly anyway. Reigns/Taker falls into the same category although I'm sure the match will be borderline horrific. Orton/Wyatt was terrible at No Mercy and they aren't two guys who ever surprise me. Cena/Miz mixed tag won't be a good match and I just know I'm going to hate the Nikki Bella stuff. Highlight of Mania will be if Cena doesn't propose. Seth/Hunter is a Hunter match. They should make it Hunter/Joe vs Seth/Balor to cover for Seth's injury. Plus it'd get two matches I really don't want to see into one and a tag could be half decent. Can't see any other direction for Balor to come back into. Like the match will suddenly be good this time around. AJ/Shane I honestly think will be very good. Shane matches are always a great spectacle and you can bet your ass both guys are going to act like lunatics. Shane because he's Shane and he'll want to prove a point against a guy like AJ and AJ to prove he can have a great match with Shane McMahon. Undercard might save the show. Aries/Neville could be real good. God I hope they do the singles match and not the big clusterfuck match. Save that for the rest of the guys. The worst I expect from the Raw Womens match is a good match. SD Womens match probably won't be because there's not enough talent on that side. Alpha/Usos should be good but it'll probably end up as the worst of their series because of time. Owens/Jericho I'll probably hate. Raw Tag Title match will have The Club so in so fuck off straight away. I guess a 3 way to get Enzo's entrance on the card. Ambrose/Corbin is an Ambrose match and Corbin isn't carrying guys. So I'm putting all my stock in AJ/Shane, Charlotte/Bayley/Sasha/Nia, Aries/Neville and Alpha/Usos. Good god.*


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I enjoyed Strowman/Reigns for what it was. It was the only match I was invested in going into the PPV because of my admiration for Strowman but yeah, I do feel it could have been a lot better. Sometimes you really do forget how big Strowman is when he's working because he does stuff you wouldn't expect. The hurt knee spot where he flew over the top rope after missing the big boot was impressive and his ability to go to the top rope and move so well through the air were a particular highlight.

Obviously disappointed with the outcome with it being clean but I still feel they'll push Strowman. I've said it in numerous threads but he's not one of those that has a shelf life in my view. He isn't a foreign heel and he isn't just a big guy who uses power moves. He has a legit strong man background and probably the strongest guy on the roster, he is verbally charismatic and very comfortable in his role, he's still young, still improving and moves like no other big man they've had in years.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LOVED Neville vs. Swann tonight. Swann's urgency was incredible and he was hitting everything with perfect precision. Every bit as good as the Gallagher match imo because there was virtually no downtime at all and Swann was fantastic. *** 3/4

The first half of RAW in general was so easy and enjoyable to watch. Owens & Zayn had a good sprint, they made the Owens/Jericho match for Mania official, Austin Aries got a MONSTER pop, and Lesnar finally got the upperhand on Goldberg!

Second half was meh. Wasting Sasha vs. Bayley like that is definitely something they'd be dumb enough to book unannounced on RAW. Match was really awkward too. Is Nia Jax not gonna be in this Mania match now? They already ran this exact 3 way just a few months back on PPV and it wasn't very good. Joe vs. Jericho was rushed because of time. Taker & Reigns interaction was fine but Braun looks like a bitch coming out of it. No clear path for him at all right now to get to Mania.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I am down for a Taker/Strowman/Reigns triple threat.

Protect Taker a bit, give Strowman a big match that his improvement deserves and protect Reigns from being pinned. 

Obviously im basing this on Strowman going over.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton vs. Styles was fantastic tonight. Orton sold the leg injury really well and I'm glad the story played into AJ's calf crusher instead of it just being a random submission. The fakeout of the springboard was AWESOME. Definitely lived up to the hype while still leaving enough there for an even better match in the future. *** 3/4


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Styles/Orton was really good man *** 1/2


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New SmackDown. 

Talking about positives first Baron Corbin v Dean Ambrose could potentially put on an incredible match at ‘Mania, it’s one of the only aspects of SDL’s ‘Mania I actually care for. 

I also love the idea of Becky Lynch getting a massive title win at ‘Mania but i’d much rather she got to work a match with just Alexa Bliss than have to be a part of some woman battle royal thing. They better not put the title on fucking Mickie James at ‘Mania, ugh. 

Negativewise, I hate SDL’s ‘Mania Main Event scene. Styles v Orton is a bigger Main Event here on SDL than the match they’re doing for ‘Mania. Orton v Bray was a filler match on some Z-List show a couple of months ago, now it’s our ‘Mania Main Event? Ugh. Almost as painful as the Undertaker v Reigns idea. I dunno why they didn’t just make the ‘Mania event a Triple Threat? 

Also I know it had James Ellsworth in it which puts a very low ceiling on the match but man that match with Cena and Nikki teaming up was awful and ‘Mania is only a few weeks away. How much better can they really get in that time?

With the rumours of this whole Styles/Shane McMahon match at ‘Mania too, SDL has a really weak set of offerings for an overall really weak looking ‘Mania.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2003)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...urt-angle-summerslam-2003-a.html#post66164281

Review up in the columns section


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Made a thread about my experience at the Fairfax show tonight: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smack...ania-fairfax-va-3-11-2017-a.html#post66190249

In short, the card changed again, people are much bigger in person, Wyatt/Harper was really good, Bliss is a dime and a half, and Orton/Styles was fantastic. (Y)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Finn Balor returned to wrestling on Friday night. Here's the full match for anyone interested:


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Do any of you kind gentlemen or gentlewomen have a link to Bigelow vs Douglas where Bigelow wins the belt? I've looked everywhere. Can't find it on any torrent site. Is this footage gone forever? The real pop for Bigelow's entrance and win.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TheLapsedFan said:


> Do any of you kind gentlemen or gentlewomen have a link to Bigelow vs Douglas where Bigelow wins the belt? I've looked everywhere. Can't find it on any torrent site. Is this footage gone forever? The real pop for Bigelow's entrance and win.


Wikipedia says it happened on October 16, 1997 but this WWE.com video says it happened on October 24th: http://www.wwe.com/videos/shane-dou...er-24-1997-ecw-world-heavyweight-championship

After looking up an article with the listings from Hardcore TV episodes in 1997, it looks like it may have aired on the 10/25 episode, which can be found in this pack on XWT: http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=141268


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Corey said:


> Wikipedia says...


You are a GOD! I hope I can get it from this one seeder!  Thanks for making my day! Repped, obviously.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did look up to see if I had it. I have and saw the video was 22 mins long........half of that was Douglas' entrance and pre match promo lol.

It did remind me I need to watch some more of Bam Bam outside of WWF tho.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

The download worked, kind of. I got an error I've never seen before: "There was a problem mounting the file".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I _could_ upload it if needed.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

I'd love you forever


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

K. Ill sort it out tomorrow.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Thank you! Much appreciated! One of my favorite angles of all-time. Rude bringing in opponents for Shane was gold.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Another 5 way elimination match on 205 Live tomorrow night! :mark: Aries vs. Tozawa vs. Kendrick vs. Nese vs. Perkins. Winners gets Neville at Wrestlemania. Don't know if it'll be as good as the last one (which I loved), but I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Why don't they just do the most logical thing? You know, have Neville attack Aries after a match and set up a match out of hate instead of out of competition? It's easily one of the top reasons I no longer watch weekly shows and consume about 3 hours of WWE per month including PPVs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith & Yokozuna vs Shawn Michaels, Diesel & Undertaker (WWF Monday Night RAW 10/09/95)

Watched this earlier. The aftermath gets remembered more for when Mabel comes in and destroys Taker, leading to him wearing a face mask, but the actual match is really fun. HBK plays the FIP and he and Owen esp have a really good segment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that is one fun 6 man tag. I remember watching it back in the day and seeing Mabel and Yoko crushing Undertaker's face. They were the biggest heels ever for me at the time .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I also watched Owen/123 Kid (KOTR) for the first time in a while. I forgot just how good this is. It's 4 minutes of balls to the wall, non stop shit. It's like it plays out in fast forward......but still in normal motion. Everything was so crisp too, including one hell of a baseball slide from Owen just before Kid enters the ring.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Boring episode of Smackdown tonight. Whole thing was based around Styles/McMahon and they basically put no other effort towards anything. One of the worst shows they've had since going live imo.

The 5-way from 205 Live started off promising but once the first elimination occurred it really fell flat from there. Pacing felt so incredibly slow and it didn't accomplish nearly as much as the one with Gallagher did. ***


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I liked some of the promo stuff they did and I thought built up all the big mania matches well enough but the show was structured terribly and the wrestling was all extremely forgettable. The buildup to Wyatt/Orton and AJ/Shane has been fantastic, and the mixed tag is also being built up pretty good as well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

finlay breaking character and breaking up a fight :mj2

(this is the only thing ive seen from smackdown so far). aj styles/shane getting that good build. i disagree with the match but cant argue with the build.

Randy Orton burns down a man's house - not fired 

AJ Styles attacks Shane McMahon - fired

#wwelogic﻿

:lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching some Liger today, because he's one of my favorites and why the fuck not. Just watched;

*Jushin Liger vs. Dick Togo (NJ 6/17/96)*

Another super fun Liger match where he was excellent on offense esp. He gives Togo one hell of a slap, knocking him off the turnbuckle and onto the outside. He also finished him off with the SHOTEI~! A performance to watch for Liger for sure, as he does some really good arm work here.

But we got two absolute GEMS out of this match from Liger



















:maisie

Just wonderful.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IIRC that's Liger's defining performance as a wanker scumbag before the Noah v. NJ tags in 2002/2003.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hero looking in great shape in NXT. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... Stan Hansen http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-with-stan-hansen/ 

Currently watching KO/Roode. KO looks like a FAT MESS.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just watched this weeks 205 Live Main Event as I heard great things and I wanted more Austin Aries. Something about Aries never quite clicked in NXT from what I remember but both on Raw and now here… so damn good. They really stuck a rocket under Aries arse going into ‘Mania, too, I’d be shocked if he didn’t walk out Champ after all this. He got a swift win on Raw in his debut and then in this 205 Live Debut match a night later took some crazy bumps and still managed to eliminate the first two CW Champs back to back. 

The match in general was kinda good, yeah. There is still a real problem with CW Division matches feeling like showcases of moves rather than being actual stories, but there was a lot more character, emotion and intensity in this match than I feel like you often see in an average match from this division. This division has always felt like a sea of bland jobbers which is why I’ve never had much interest in following it. You had the few bright sparks in there but with a lack of stories and characters it didn’t help. 

It seems clear to me that this division is still a work very much in progress but now Aries has arrived and that they seem to be showing clear intention to start actually progressing the CWs forward, maybe I'll watch more closely now.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Screw anything from WWE except for Southpaw Regional Wrestling. Literally the greatest thing to ever grace the planet. INFINITY stars!


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just went back and watched the Feb 7th 205 Live that set up the title match from Fastlane. Can I just say that as much as I hate those smarky crowds who try and hijack the show, the near complete silence of the 205 Live crowd may actually be even worse. When a crowd is hot, you don’t realise how much it adds to a match until it is gone. 

We start with Divari taking on Ali to decide who gets Nese’s place in the Five Way after Nese was apparently injured. While matches that have very little story or psychology to them is the issue with the CW Division, now that I watch so little WWE wrestling (especially CW Division WWE wrestling), it’s actually a treat to watch a nice self contained, fast paced, high work rate match like this.

Then I moved on to the actual Five Man Elimination match which makes up, somewhat, for the lack of a sense of purpose elsewhere. Top to bottom this match was really solid, much better than the five way from the other day. There hasn’t been a lot of good wrestling from WWE this year so it makes it all the more special when you get something this good. The way in which Neville came out at the end was just awesome as well, who knew he’d make for such a fantastic heel. One of the few genuine badasses WWE has. Just a shame they forgot their own rules when Gallagher managed to get a rope break to turn the match around. The match also functions as a reminder as to just how much they blew this division. They have so many great talents and they’re just doing nothing with them, Gallagher may be one of the best hands WWE has right now, he feels wasted in this division. I also feel like Alexander, TJ Perkins and Mustafa Ali all deserve so much more. 

This also gave me the excuse to go back and rewatch the Battle of the Brits from Fastlane. Controversial opinion maybe but I'm genuinely considering moving this above the Omega/Okada Wrestle Kingdom match as my MOTY so far. While I love that match it took a good couple of watches before I really saw what the fuss was all about and yeah it did ignite a new found love for NJPW but I loved Neville's title defence against Gallagher from the word go, being English myself I had the extra feeling of jingoistic pride and I've come back to watch the match again for the love of the match. 

Aside the point but that is kinda the weird thing about Fastlane, it was panned and forgotten but actually in a time where even good matches from WWE are few and far between, Fastlane deserves more credit I feel. Yeah the booking was garbage but even outside of the CW Title match the quality of the actual wrestling itself ranges from better than expected all the way to legitimately great. Before this show the only matches from WWE I felt really all that worth talking about were the two title matches from the Rumble.

I also watched Austin Aries 205 Live Debut as I didn’t realise it was from last week’s 205 Live against Tony Nese and what a return performance. Aries and Neville will save 205 Live.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Mankind (WWF Championship) (WWF In Your House: Mind Games)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...p-wwf-your-house-mind-games.html#post66362713

Review up in the columns section


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Decided completely on a whim to go to a RAW house show in Hershey PA last night since I was blessed with a day off that I wasn't supposed to have and I had such a good time at the SD one in Fairfax last weekend. Needless to really say, it wasn't as good as the SD one.  

Doesn't really deserve its on thread this time but I wouldn't put anything over *** that I saw, which would've been Reigns vs. Strowman in the main event and Neville vs. Swann for the CW Title. The main had a DQ finish and Neville faked a leg injury to get his win so that was kinda meh. Reigns speared Strowman through a table postmatch so the crowd loved that. Jericho of all people got the biggest pop of the night, and I'm talking a fucking HUGE ovation. Got to see Balor which was cool. He faced Jinder Mahal.  Sasha was jumping up and down on the apron for her tag match and that cute little butt was looking (Y)(Y)(Y). 

Had a good time but nothing on the show touched Orton/Styles or even Wyatt/Harper. Smackdown really is the superior brand, even when it comes to house shows. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really good match between Joe & Zayn tonight (*** 1/4). Pretty much the only thing you need to see from RAW. Poor Strowman once again looking like a cheap afterthought in this Taker/Reigns build. I hate to say it and I can't believe I am, but Reigns really needs to beat Taker at Mania. Old man needs to hang up the boots.

Looks like we're gonna get HHH vs. Rollins in a non-sanctioned match, which could very well steal the show along with Styles/Shane. Really not much else to look forward to tbh. I'm not sure what type of match we're gonna get with either Lesnar/Goldberg or Orton/Wyatt and Owens/Jericho has cooled off mightily imo. Hopefully Aries/Neville gets some time.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. So they put Nia Jax in the Women’s match at ‘Mania to basically have someone to get pinned? Poor Nia but… oh well. 

I’m not looking forward to this Undertaker match at all. Was that his face twisting in pain after he hit the Chokeslam on Strowman? Hopefully this at least means Strowman gets added into the match, Undertaker doesn’t need to be exposed any further, it’s embarrassing enough. 

Gimme that Kingslayer shirt, an unsanctioned match between Triple H and Rollins at ‘Mania with a clause which means Rollins can do nothing if Triple H ends his career? Given the bloodbath that was the Reigns/Triple H build last year, this match could be fucking glorious if Triple H lets it be.

Although it resulted in an unnecessary repeat of a match we’ve already seen with a weird moment where I’m pretty sure they got the count out rules wrong (but hell yeah, bloody face Samoa Joe!), that opening segment was fucking LIT. When they give Sami Zayn stuff to do, hell yeah! Is this so they can send him over to SDL?


----------



## Dooze (Jul 21, 2016)

Pizzamorg said:


> I’m not looking forward to this Undertaker match at all. Was that his face twisting in pain after he hit the Chokeslam on Strowman? Hopefully this at least means Strowman gets added into the match, Undertaker doesn’t need to be exposed any further, it’s embarrassing enough


Err, he wasn't in pain, he was selling the mistake of turning on Reigns.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Great night for WWE TV:

*SD Tag Team Titles:* American Alpha (c) vs. The Usos **** 1/2* (HOT match)

Orton vs. Corbin - ***** (Really solid despite the predictable finish)

Neville vs. Mustafa Ali (205 Live) - **** 1/2* (This may have went a bit too long for what it was trying to accomplish but god damn it had some AWESOME spots and unique offense from Ali. Definitely worth a watch. Neville has been one of the MVPs of WWE this year)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Bella parody :lmao so good

Maryse is a hotter Nikki than Nikki.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Biff Busick & La Sombra had the best NXT match of the year tonight. Please take 10 minutes out of your day to watch it because it was unexpectedly awesome. *** 3/4


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So my NXT "dream" match finally happened? Well, then. Time to actually watch WWE, then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A Vader/Fujinami match from Germany has recently surfaced. Handheld, but the match is rather grand TBH.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1991, Hulk Hogan defeated Sgt. Slaughter to win back the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania VII from the Memorial Sports Arena in Los Angeles, California.

Includes the ending from the live version.

- Vic


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I haven't watched any WWE in 2017. Ok, that may be an exaggeration but I have probably seen 15 minutes of RAW combined over the last 3 months. I've seen the Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber. And the last hour of Fast Lane. No idea what's going on with Smackdown. 

With that being said, I decided to check out the card for Mania and holy shit this is shaping up to me the worst Mania of all time. And that is no exaggeration. Absolutely nothing peaks my interest. I haven't been following the TV shows, so I'm not sure how the angles are playing out but there's a reason why I haven't been watching the TV shows- because it's freaking boring. We're one week away from Mania and I don't even think I wanna watch RAW tomorrow. I have never not cared about a RTWM or a WM like this before. 

Orton vs Wyatt sounds boring. So does Taker/Reigns tbh. Goldberg/Lesnar for the WWE title in 2017? Really? I would have mind if this were on the undercard as a special attraction but for the World title? In 2017? Jericho vs Owens? Nope. Ambrose vs Corbin? Maybe, I guess. I don't know. It sounds like it can be a somewhat decent match. The three way tag I could see being fun to watch. But why no New Day? Was it because of Xavier Woods' three way tag?

Cena/Nikki vs Miz/Maryse? Jesus Christ, this card is on some Wrestlemania 1 shit. And how and why the fuck is Styles/Shane happening? Can someone please explain this shit to me? 

Does anybody really try to even bother to keep up with this company? They have the strongest roster in years and they book this shit. I'm not feeling this year's Mania at all. I didn't feel last year's much either but at least it had Mania hype to it. This year I'm just not feeling it.


----------



## RKing85 (Mar 22, 2010)

has anyone seen that Raw after Wrestlemania dvd yet? Worth picking up?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1988, Randy Savage defeated Ted Dibiase to win the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania IV from Trump Plaza in Atlantic City, New Jersey

and Ric Flair Vs. Sting ended in a 45 minute draw at Clash Of The Champions from The Coliseum in Greensboro, North Carolina.

- Vic


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I haven't watched any WWE in 2017. Ok, that may be an exaggeration but I have probably seen 15 minutes of RAW combined over the last 3 months. I've seen the Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber. And the last hour of Fast Lane. No idea what's going on with Smackdown.
> 
> With that being said, I decided to check out the card for Mania and holy shit this is shaping up to me the worst Mania of all time. And that is no exaggeration. Absolutely nothing peaks my interest. I haven't been following the TV shows, so I'm not sure how the angles are playing out but there's a reason why I haven't been watching the TV shows- because it's freaking boring. We're one week away from Mania and I don't even think I wanna watch RAW tomorrow. I have never not cared about a RTWM or a WM like this before.
> 
> ...


Legitimately the best promo-work in any promotion in years. Miz is killing it, and has been for a long while. It's not workrate~! but it's wrestling 101, and it's probably going to lead to a big Cena/Nikki engagement payoff.

Do yourself a favour and give Talking Smack a try when you see Miz on it. If that doesn't bite, then just watch Usos/American Alpha. Plenty of good stuff still in wrestling, even for a guy as burned out as you/I.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

People who are complaining about the solid card at this years Mania need to watch Mania 29. Watched it for the first time since it aired and it is WOAT mania. Punk/Taker was very good then the other 3 big matches are around or below **. Del Rio vs. Swagger for the title.. AT MANIA. Wow


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*'Stone Cold' Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF In Your House: Over The Edge)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...ve-wwf-your-house-over-edge.html#post66534129

Review up in the columns section  Fuck i had fun with this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Daniel97 said:


> People who are complaining about the solid card at this years Mania need to watch Mania 29. Watched it for the first time since it aired and it is WOAT mania. Punk/Taker was very good then the other 3 big matches are around or below **. Del Rio vs. Swagger for the title.. AT MANIA. Wow


I actually think WM 29 is kinda underrated. Well, it's far from a great show, but the undercard was fun and Taker/Punk is awesome and one of my favorite Streak matches. The other ME matches were boring, tho.

Anyway, I'm watching WM because it's WM, and no other reason than that. And there's only two matches that I am actually looking forward to. Like you *should* w/every single match at WM. One of those matches is the Cruiserweight Title match on the Goddamn pre-show (Neville/Aries). The other shouldn't even be happening, but since it is happening, at least it sounds like it could be a fun match (that being Shane/Styles) - it's kinda like Foley/Edge from 22 where you think the big hot heel star would be getting top billing at WM, but he just kinda gets someone you'd think wouldn't even be at WM at that point, and they end up (or may end up) stealing the show.

As far as the rest of the card goes:

- Goldberg/Lesnar III will be the biggest joke of a WM ME since Miz/Cena (though it'll STILL be better than the WM 20 debacle, so there's that)... if it goes over 5 minutes and isn't terrible, it'll go down in history as one of the biggest miracles ever;

- Wyatt/Orton is a WWE Title match at WM. Let that sink in for a moment. Look, I've heard that the build up is good and all (I haven't seen Raw or SD in what feels like years at this point), and I'm glad that Bray finally got a world title in his shoulder, but this is probably going to be a snoozefest, especially from their track record together;

- Taker/Reigns could be good... if Taker's in good shape. Thing is, last time I saw him (Royal Rumble), he looked like an old, broken, drunk man trying his damnest to emote a statue w/moving arms. Taker is one of the GOAT, but at this point, I'm not sure how much can he do, and Reigns ain't no miracle worker at all.... I just hope that the inevitable boofest after Reigns beats him isn't as awkward as the match itself may end up being;

- Women's 4-Way actually could be really good if given the chance, but I couldn't give less of a shit about it - nothing against the talented girls, I just... don't care;

- The Cena Tag is a Total Divas marketing ploy. That's all it is. It's gonna be Cena & Ms. Cena kicking Team Mike's rectal separations and then Cena proposing. Yaaaaaaayyyyyy......;

- HHH/Rollins is happening? Sure, whatever. That one depends entirely on Rollins' condition.

- Jericho/Owens could be decent, but it probably won't be, because Jericho sucks as a babyface, and Owens doesn't SUCK as a heel, but he doesn't care to be an effective heel either. More than likely, it'll be an okay at best match that'll be mindlessly awarded **** like Jericho/Styles or Orton/Rollins from the last two years were;

- Ambrose/Corbin? Zzzzz.

- Pre-show stuff is zzzz (besides CW Title), although I am rooting for either Zayn or Braun to win the Battle Royal.

Shitty looking doesn't make it justice. God.

EDIT: Forgot about the Ladder match, that's how irrelevant it is. It's a Ladder match w/more than 2 people in it and the WWE creative team behind it. Fuck that noise.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just watched SDL’s Go Home show for Wrestlemania. 

Bella Bullshit was funny last week but they kinda killed off the joke this week… The commitment from Miz and Maryse to put this match over though is pretty commendable. Certainly much more so than what Cena and Nikki are doing. 

You know, as much as the intensity of AJ Styles has helped put over the idea of the Shane/Styles ‘Mania match, I still wish they spent more time building this match. I mean the whole handling of Styles “getting screwed” wasn’t even particularly good in the first place but I get it, you’ve now worked your ass off and missing out on that ‘Mania main event. But at the same time then, how would he react on Raw? Over there their wrestlers are screwed on a weekly basis, a clean finish is something they bring out only for special occasions like Christmas or Birthdays. I dunno, SmackDown Live has been branded the “land of opportunity” and for better or worse they have lived up to that monicker which makes Styles motivations very muddy and makes him look a bit of a fool. 

Then again I guess at least it isn’t as poor as the Wyatt/Orton build. Ugh.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Eh? Too much skepticism here. Personally, regardless of the build, this year's card looks stacked.

Reigns/Taker, Lesnar/Goldberg, HHH/Rollins, Owens/Jericho, Orton/Wyatt, Aries/Neville, Charlotte/Bayley/Sasha/Nia Jax, Styles/Shane, Ambrose/Corbin could all turn out to be memorable in different ways.

Plus, there's the possibility of BROKEN Matt and Jeff making an appearance in the ladder tag team match I guess? 

Anyway, I'm more optimistic about this Mania than the last 2-3.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't really have super high expectations for the show this year but I will say I'm excited for the spectacle and the weekend as whole (so much fucking wrestling). HHH/Rollins, Styles/Shane, and hopefully LESNAR winning the Universal Title is what I'm looking forward to most. Ladder Match (had no idea this was made btw) could be really fun and I hope they let Aries & Neville go all out but I'm not too sure of that since it's on the preshow. Orton/Wyatt, Jericho/Owens, and Ambrose/Corbin all have potential but I just don't know how much time each of them will be given. Jericho/Ko has lost a LOT of steam imo since the original turn from Owens. Taker/Reigns is the real widcard for me. That's gonna be interesting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> LESNAR winning the Universal Title is what I'm looking forward to most.


:wow Thought nobody cared for him or this match around here TBH.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> :wow Thought nobody cared for him or this match around here TBH.


Oh yeah I'm still a Lesnar mark. The handling of this Godlberg situation has angered me to an extent so I'm hoping Brock crushes him and wins the title in grand fashion, but it'll be interesting to see how they handle it and how long the match goes. Truthfully idk if this is gonna be the main event or not (does anyone know right now?) but I feel like they need to do _something _other than 30 seconds if they do.
Save​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Oh yeah I'm still a Lesnar mark. The handling of this Godlberg situation has angered me to an extent so I'm hoping Brock crushes him and wins the title in grand fashion, but it'll be interesting to see how they handle it and how long the match goes. Truthfully idk if this is gonna be the main event or not (does anyone know right now?) but I feel like they need to do _something _other than 30 seconds if they do.
> Save​


Unless something big is happening in the Taker/Reigns match, I still expect Lesnar/Goldberg to go last tbh. I'm very conflicted on just how long it'll go too if I'm honest. Surely it's got to try and go close to ten minutes at least, although I'm bracing myself for a short win by Brock atm.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Any regulars from this thread at Mania? The atmosphere over here is building nicely.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1985, Hulk Hogan & Paul Orndorff defeated Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff at Wrestlemania from Madison Square Garden in New York, New York.




On this day in 1996, Shawn Michaels defeated Bret Hart in an Iron Man Match to win the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania XII from the Arrowhead Pond in Anaheim, California.

My favorite match of all time!

- Vic


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> :wow Thought nobody cared for him or this match around here TBH.


I care


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IT'S VADER TIME said:


> I care


:fuckyeah

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN MAAAAAAN?

Great to see you're back.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> Oh yeah I'm still a Lesnar mark. The handling of this Godlberg situation has angered me to an extent so I'm hoping Brock crushes him and wins the title in grand fashion, but it'll be interesting to see how they handle it and how long the match goes. Truthfully idk if this is gonna be the main event or not (does anyone know right now?) but I feel like they need to do _something _other than 30 seconds if they do.
> Save​





Brock said:


> Unless something big is happening in the Taker/Reigns match, I still expect Lesnar/Goldberg to go last tbh. I'm very conflicted on just how long it'll go too if I'm honest. Surely it's got to try and go close to ten minutes at least, although I'm bracing myself for a short win by Brock atm.


As of right now, the plan is for Reigns/Taker to close the show per Meltzer. Without actually saying why, I'm sure you guys probably know the reason.



Spoiler: And if you don't...



This is likely Taker's last match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its the 4th annual Wrestling View's Hall of Fame!!! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wrestling-views-hall-of-fame-2017/


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> :fuckyeah
> 
> WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN MAAAAAAN?
> 
> Great to see you're back.


Back like cooked crack :lmao

I'll PM you


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chad 2 Badd said:


> As of right now, the plan is for Reigns/Taker to close the show per Meltzer. Without actually saying why, I'm sure you guys probably know the reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that might actually be a good choice. I'd rather that close than either of the title matches. And surely it can't be worse than HHH/Reigns.... right? RIGHT?

Honestly, I'd just say fuck it and have Shane/Styles be the ME, since that's the only match I'm actually truly excited for (despite me disagreeing w/its existance, I think it's gonna be a hell of a lot of fun), but whatever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The way NXT keeps churning out these fantastic Takeover shows even with not-so-great looking cards and an ice cold build is pretty incredible.

8-Person Tag Match - **** 3/4* (Fucking jesus this was great and the crowd was LOVING Tye & Roddy)

Black vs. Almas - **** 1/4* (So they may have actually struck gold with Tommy End here. His presentation and character work is pretty god damn great so far. We might be looking at a future NXT Champion and a possible superstar in the making)

Tag Title 3-Way Elimination - ***** 1/2* (Absolutely amazing storytelling and atmosphere. The best WWE/NXT match since DIY/Revival in Toronto which tells you how good these guys are.)

Asuka vs. Ember Moon - ****** (Maaaaaaannn this was good. Fast paced action and more great storytelling with the way they presented Ember as a true equal so Asuke had to cheat to win. Can't wait for the rematch and the passing of the torch)

Roode/Nakamura II - **** 3/4* (This is getting a lot of mixed reviews online and I think it's just because of the length. I personally loved the atmosphere and the length didn't really bother me because it was so easy to watch thanks to the characters and the crowd. Once the leg work started it was a real roller coaster ride. I never truly thought Nakamura was gonna win but the kickouts were well done and that spinebuster spot was fucking gorgeous. Loved the way Nakamura took those DDTs too and Roode sold sold his arm pretty well)


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

NXT Takeover Orlando 

Sanity/Team 10-***1/2
Black/Almas-***
3 Way Tag-****1/4
Asuka/Moon-***1/2
Roode/Nakamura-****

Good show overall, no real low points. 7.5/10


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I only really watch some of the Takeovers in regards to NXT, but I can't wait to watch that tag team 3 way. Glad it's getting praise.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Definitely the least I've enjoyed a Takeover. Peyton and Billie on the pre-show are so great. Sanity fucking suck. Whoever came up with the eye paint idea should be fired. The last thing we needed was a group doing a shit cosplay of The Wyatts. THE WYATTS. Eric Young has zero presence in the role. Whatever Axeman is being called now has no presence. Dain at least has presence. He's in the Battle Royal tonight which is random. Nikki was good on the last Takeover show. I was pissed they took Jose off the show. Tye's music is too good for a guy who will have the career he'll have. I like him as a star at an NXT level though but he shouldn't be anything more than an enhancement guy on the main roster. Roderick Strong having the most generic entrance ever on the show where pretty much everyone gets at least a good entrance has to be an inside rib. Ruby Riot did nothing for me. I thought they'd have some debut to replace Jose but duh of course it would be Ohno. I just don't know about Ohno. He's not made for working 10 minute matches. He'll probably be just fine in this new NXT because of what it is but he's death on the main roster working short matches again. I don't know about the jersey vest either. I like Tom Phillips but his line at the end about the numbers always allowing Sanity to win was so fucking stupid in a match where the babyfaces had the same numbers as the heels. I'm honestly shocked everyone thought this was match was so good because I thought it sucked. 

As did Black/Almas. I'm just perplexed that Tommy End is now the hot act we're excited to see in NXT. He was a guy I saw a lot of when I was still enjoying watching Indy wrestling and watching everything there was to watch and he was just a nothing guy then and when he started getting featured more in wXw at the back end of my viewing he was still a nothing guy who was pushed harder because he did really fucking shitty choreographed martial arts spots. He's still that guy but now with an obnoxiously long entrance. Thought he looked nervous as fuck and slow/gassed on multiple spots here. Almas is definitely better as a heel but I'm still not convinced they didn't totally drop the ball unmasking him. That said Gran Metalik is getting less airtime than Tony Nese. Match died a death tbh. Wrestling fans are so funny. A small part of the crowd expressed an opinion that this was boring so they produced the loudest chant of the match telling them to shut the fuck up. The same fans that get pissed at WWE for editing crowd reactions they don't like. 

I don't get why they keep debuting new signings by having them sitting on a chair at a Takeover show. Nobody knew Drew was back so why not just keep it secret for the TV tapings and debut him in an angle that will be more memorable and get a bigger pop. 

Tag match was really good but had its issues. Everything before the table spot was kinda dull but then that stretch from the table spot up to DIY's elimination was absolutely fantastic and why I love pro wrestling. DIY and The Revival working together to get rid of AoP was sooooooooooo good. I popped so hard for the double team spots with the mixed members. They probably should have eliminated AoP at the end of this. 4 on 2 they still look strong. The match and the crowd really lost heat when they eliminated DIY. AoP/Revival mini match was fine but wasn't needed. Should have kept it to one fall and justify the Revival/DIY teaming as take them out and then settle it ourselves. AoP got put over strong as fuck. They're a good act as long as they're in there with a team who can do the running and let them be the bases. I thought Nigel was really good on commentary getting over all sorts of little sub plots in the matches but I cringed at him saying AOP. You're not saving any syllables! Percy Watson might be the most useless commentator ever. He's silent for the vast majority of the matches and when he does talk he sounds like a bad actor reading cue cards while trying to portray a personality he isn't confident in. I can't call it a great match because the beginning and end were flat but that Revival/DIY working together segment was absolutely fantastic. 

I liked Asuka/Moon a lot more than most seemed to. I think this was the first Asuka match in NXT where she herself has looked really good. The more heelish personality is way the fuck better for her. She was also working a bit stiffer too which is one of my faults with her against everyone else she's faced. The fire she brings with her strikes has never matched her character and reputation until this match. Moon looked good too. I actually liked the we're equals wrestling at the start because the story is that nobody has been Asuka's equal until tonight where Moon was and only lost because Asuka went to a darker place. Obviously some of the match was saved back because they'll be rematching and that's what you should do. I'm more excited for the next Asuka/Moon match than I was for this one and this one was very good so mission accomplished. 

Nakamura/Roode sucked. 3/5 matches on a Takeover show sucking is a shame. When are people going to start calling Nakamura a flop? Th Zayn match was brilliant and the Aries match was pretty good but everything since has flopped and the last few matches have flopped bad. The Joe matches they taped were bad and both these Roode matches haven't been at all good. Not that Roode is super good either. Without that entrance he'd be so cold. If WWE want him to be a heel of significance on the main roster then he needs to lose the music. Or just do the obvious thing and turn him babyface. Because he is a babyface with that music, it's just impossible for him not to be even though everything else he does is heelish. But they undermine everything he's trying to do with him having the most babyface entrance ever. I'll be sat here behind this avatar looking very smug as Nakamura flops on the main roster relative to everyone's expectations for him. I'm sure he'll do ok because he's popular but he ain't getting any more over than he was in that Zayn match. Non wrestling purists won't get behind him because he's just a cool entrance. Even his fans who are such huge marks for him don't get invested in his matches outside of his entrance and the highspots at the end. Which can also describe No Way Jose. Plus he can't cut a proper promo in English which will be such a big hindrance in front of fans who don't watch New Japan. They're a different viewer to us and they want different things and that's interesting and compelling promos and personalities. Not great wrestling. Which btw Nakamura isn't even delivering, even on the big shows when he's trying to. Should I bring up Nakamura's selling again here? About 10 minutes in I started playing on my phone and honestly barely looked up until the last few minutes which were good. Also whoever decided that everyone will now call Nakamura "Shin" needs to be put in the bin with the Sanity guy. No. Just no. *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NXT TAKEOVER: ORLANDO
------------------------------------------
SAnitY/Team Tye - ***1/4
Almas/Black - **3/4 or ***
AOP/Revival/DIY - Huh?
Asuka/Ember - ***1/4
Roode/Nakamura II - ***1/4

Opening Tag was very fun. A total spotfest from about halfway through, but I was having a ball so I didn't really care. Plus, it's not like the logic of madball heels vs. likeable babyfaces... and Roderick Strong was broken.

Almas/Black was alright. Black had a cool entrance and a cool look. Didn't really care about the match when it got all flippy flippy, but when they were allowed to kick the shit out of each other, it was entertaining. Almas is awesome, btw.

Am I the only one who thought that the Tag Title match was a fucking mess? It was by far the most anticipated match of the show for me, and I felt hugely disappointed. It was all over the place - it was awesome, then it was terrible, then it was awesome again, then it was meh.... I LOVED it when they worked the idea of Revival and DIY having to team up against the monsters, and anytime that happened, I was cool. I second @seabs in that the stretch from the table spot to DIY's elimination was fucking EPIC. But then they would continously break that logic by having the two teams just randomly turn on each other instead of WORKING ON THE TWO GIANT BEHEMOTHS INSTEAD, and I was enfuriated at how little sense that made. Or at how little sense there was in the way DIY was eliminated. Or at how little sense they had the two heel teams be the last ones standing. I don't care if I sound like a contrarian, this match was fucking retarded.

On the other hand, while everybody else was psyched for the Women's Ttle match, I didn't really care, so I came out pleasantly surprised. I actually liked the ending, as Ember winning like that was too predictable, Asuka finally has some edge to her character, and this gave some weight to the inevitable rematch. Match was good too.

Main Event was good, w/a mostly strong pair of selljobs by both Bobby and Naka, but for a long while there it felt pretty boring, w/nothing of interesting happening whatsoever. I don't mind slow paced, but only when interesting stuff is happening. Not the case here for the most part. Still, the strong selljobs and the swagger of the two characters elevated this to enjoyable status.

Decent show, I guess.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Had some sleep to put some perspective on the matches last night, think I favour something like this;

8 man tag - ***
It's very clown. Lacks any substance but it's a match put out there and placed appropriately to just be an entertaining clownfiesta before the main courses come out. Did the job it needed and I have no qualms about it.

Almas vs Black - **
I think I had this at *** last night but ugh. It just was not good. It wasn't bad. So it's average. A match designed to put Tommy End over made Almas look like the better star from my point of view. It had no structure and was devoid of flow.

Triple Threat Tag - ****
Actually straight up until the table spot I was telling a friend that this felt very strange. It was the moment that blew the match into the fourth gear and after DIY was eliminated, I still enjoyed the match. AOP looked fantastic when it was just them against the Revival. It made Authors of Pain look like stars, while letting everyone still know that they are limited in certain regards.

Asuka vs Ember Moon - ***
I missed the first few minutes as I would rather brush my teeth but from what I saw (which was still about 10 minutes), it was a good match. Interesting finish by Asuka leaves me fairly interested in what happens with her.

Roode vs Nakamura - *** (way down from ***3/4 I had before)
What I liked about it before was I was sleep deprived enough that made the match flow better than it did. Had a watch over just after waking up and I just could not see what I saw before. Nothing good or bad to say, just that I think Nakamura shouldn't be watering down his strong style but actually putting more of it on display. Just go full out and let the other wrestler catch as he can.

Saw some comments of people thinking Wrestlemania will not pump out "as good of matches". I'd very disappointed if they couldn't. The bar hasn't actually been set all that high.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I initially had Roode/Nak at **** but bumping it down to **3/4-***. Their little hot ending can't sway me that much now that I'm not tired as fuck. 

The tag match was great, Moon/Asuka was kind of a letdown after seeing all the hype and I was disappointed Almas lost again. The dude is so great and just keeps taking losses to all the new guys. I don't give a fuck about Tommy End/Aelister Black.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*








WWE Championship
Bray Wyatt (c) vs. Randy Orton

This fucking shitshow of a build. It was very convenient for Orton how this all came together between the Rumble and Elimination Chamber. This didn’t need the title but Smackdown also needed something to be the title match and it’s kinda of the only option. The ideal scenario would be Cena/AJ with Cena finally getting his win and tying the record but with Cena leaving again after Mania that was off the table. AJ had no viable opponent with Cena and Ambrose both off the table. Maybe you do Orton/AJ here but they were locked into Orton/Wyatt and they need to save something big like Orton/AJ for post Mania when Smackdown will really start struggling for fresh pairings. So it’s more logical than just the title doesn’t add anything to the story. Which it doesn’t. I died when I went to wwe.com on Wednesday morning to read the results and the main headline was “SmackDown LIVE results: The Viper drives a Crusix into the heart and soul of Sister Abigail”. Fucking hell. Remember the match they had last year on whatever that SD PPV was called and how bad it was. Well we’re getting it again. Neither Randy or Bray are guys who step up and really bring it so I’m expecting nothing different here. They’ll be wise to put this in the first half of the show or risk it dying a painful death. Kinda like Sister Abigail. Mwahahahahaha.









Universal Championship
Goldberg (c) vs. Brock Lesnar

Ok first off I’m more than willing to put my ass on the line and commit to saying there’s a 0% chance this goes under 3 minutes and is worked like the other 2 Goldberg matches. The whole point of them matches was to make people believe that’s how this match would go. And they’ll totally tease the fuck out of it ending really quickly. Goldberg goes for the spear straight away only for Lesnar to catch him in the F5, go for the pin and Goldberg kicks out and the stadium goes mental. Finishers galore most likely but I’m certain the crowd will be red hot for this, even if they end up being 100% behind Lesnar. 10-12 minute match is my prediction that ends up being fun in a trashy way. This is the biggest match on the card and will get the biggest reaction on the card so should go on last barring a massive angle with Taker/Reigns. This will be way better than most people are guaranteeing it will be too. 









Non-Sanctioned Match
Seth Rollins vs. Triple H

You know Rollins has got the better of Triple H once in this entire build and that was on the go home show. But it’s all ok because Papa Hunter is losing a match to him at Wrestlemania. I really don’t care one jot about this. Expect a bells and whistles match. Rollins’ leg injury should be the platform for a really good match but Hunter working Rollins over sounds painful to watch and Rollins won’t do any leg work justice when it’s time for him to get his spots in. Watch out for interference from Samoa Joe interrupted by Finn Balor taking his sweet ass time to make the save. Hey, at least a babyface will be making a save for once! Then also look out for Hunter on ESPN talking about Joe and Balor being on the NXT card the year before and now they’re in the ring with THE KING OF KINGS just one year later.









The Undertaker vs. Roman Reigns 

Ok first off lel if this is Taker’s last match and/or he announces his retirement in the week following the match. Way to cash in on UNDERTAKER’S RETIREMENT MATCH. Reigns has to be turning heel right? I mean did you see his promo on Monday? There’s literally no way he isn’t getting booed out the building in this match and surely they can’t be this delusional to think that just getting a win over Undertaker at Mania will start to correct his push. I mean they can be that delusional but rhetoric question alert. Did everyone see that interview Hunter did about turning Reigns heel. ““People can look at Roman Reigns and say, ‘The failed attempt that is Roman Reigns,’ but Roman Reigns sells tickets. Roman Reigns gets one of the loudest reactions every night, whether that reaction is a boo or whether that reaction is a cheer. The fans who say, ‘I don’t understand why they don’t turn Roman Reigns heel!’ Isn’t he already? If you believe what you believe, and you’re saying, ‘How can they not turn him heel? There is 70 percent of the crowd booing him out of the building!’ If that’s your belief, then isn’t he already the biggest heel we have? If 70 percent of that crowd is booing him, then he’s a heel. We’re just presenting him to you in a different way that makes you hate him.” At the start of this I really did think this was the point where they turn him but I really don’t think that’s the direction now. There’s a case for this going on last but ONLY if Reigns turns heel or loses. Match quality wise this is totally reliant on the atmosphere and what little stories they can work into the match. They’ll try to make this a Wrestlemania epic which means it’s going over 20 minutes and will be full of finishers being kicked out of BUT, I might enjoy it in this case because even though Reigns is still the heavy odds favourite I can buy into either guy winning and maybe more importantly, I’m very intrigued into how the finish is worked. So I might be able to get suckered into the 3rd spear as a near fall. I don’t have high hopes for it though but I don’t have hopes for any match being above good and the only matches I think will even be good are Aries/Neville, Bayley/Charlotte/Sasha/Nia, AJ/Shane and Lesnar/Goldberg.









Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles 

How in the fuck does this not have a stip? If they work this as a regular singles match with one big Shane spot then it could very well get really bad. I was looking forward to this because Shane acting like a god damn lunatic and doing crazy spots is entertaining and adding AJ into that setting will only amplify it and you best believe that AJ will do some crazy shit too. But having to work under regular rules restricts so much of the crazy shit and this is a match that needs to get by on the crazy shit so I have no idea what they’ll do. AJ winning is about as sure a thing as death and taxes are.









RAW Women's Championship Fatal 4-Way Elimination Match
Bayley (c) vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Sasha Banks vs. Nia Jax

Ok I like everyone else would prefer a one-on-one match with Bayley and whoever but instead of just moaning at this being a 4 way, consider the opportunity cost of it. Where do you get Charlotte or Sasha onto the card? There’s nobody else on that roster for them to work with. Maybe you do Sasha/Nia but then people moan about Sasha not getting a big Mania match and about there being even more matches on the card. So yeah a singles match would be better but Wrestlemania isn’t about producing the best possible card of wrestling. This should still be very good though and it being an elimination match helps their chances. Nia is probably gone after 5 minutes. Hopefully for them 5 minutes they make it the world vs Nia to help her look good. Then we’ll have the weird dynamic of the babyfaces working over the heel 2 on 1. By the way the build to this has been atrocious. I’m not surprised when their booking botches anything but they’ve not only botched Bayley so bad it honestly feels like a hit on her character the way she’s been booked. Should be a good match though, nothing on the level of the best Charlotte singles matches this last year though. I actually think Charlotte wins as it’s elimination rules. Bayley pins Sasha, Charlotte/Sasha for 5 minutes and then Sasha comes back out looking like she’ll help Bayley again but turns on her and Charlotte gets title reign #8 (may or may not be accurate). 









United States Championship
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Kevin Owens

For the sake of workrate marks this match better deliver on a big scale for them because otherwise they’ll totally shit on this show. I’m fully expecting I’ll hate this match because Jericho is a big as a turn off from an in ring standpoint as I have these days and I think the only Owens matches in WWE I’ve liked are the Zayn blowoff (I use that term almost sarcastically) and some random match with Neville on Main Event. There’s quite a lot of matches on this card that I think would really benefit from a no dq stip and this is one of them but I suppose they’ll have that match in the next one. Because this isn’t the end of the feud I think Jericho wins. I guess Owens can always win both the matches but they’ve been protecting Jericho in this run and him winning probably builds better to the next match. But honestly wins and losses do not matter at this level on the card.









John Cena & Nikki Bella vs. The Miz & Maryse

Fuck did everyone see Cena’s promo on Tuesday. FUCK. Build to this has been really good apart from that first promo where they were way too insider and Cena had that horrible line about if he had pull he’d be facing Undertaker. It’s almost a shame all that great build had to be a match that will struggle to better than ok. Mixed Tag with anyone is difficult to make good let alone when the women are Maryse and Nikki Bella. Cena/Nikki winning is as close to a lock as you can get. As is Cena proposing after the match. I mean I’m pretty sure they’re already engaged in private and this is the public announcement of it. Be hella weird to let Miz and Maryse fire all them shots and for Cena to then still not ask her to marry him. Crowd will totally forget that they hate that shit and start chanting YES for it too. 









Intercontinental Championship
Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Baron Corbin

I like Corbin but this shouldn’t go more than 5 minutes. This should really be the very first match you put on the pre-show too. Corbin has been getting good recently but if he has a good match with Ambrose on a loaded Wrestlemania card then he’s come a lot further than I realised. Actually if he gets a good match out of Ambrose period these days he’s turned into a great worker. Corbin is Vince’s project and Ambrose is the guy who won’t ever be a top top star but will remain popular regardless of what he does. So guess who’s winning. Corbin getting the slow burn push over the last year is good and he’s benefited by being given time to improve at a rate where he’s not in a position where he needs to any better in the ring than he currently is. Post Mania he’s getting pushed to the very top of Smackdown though and will be working with Orton and Cena this year for sure.









RAW Tag Team Championship Triple Threat Ladder Match
Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c) vs. Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Cesaro & Sheamus

The only reason for this now being a Ladder Match is that they remembered they have a quote of a Ladder Match per Wrestlemania to fill and it was between this and the women’s matches as far as multi-person matches go. That or The Hardys turn up here. I’m guessing this will be more of a stiff Ladder match than a high flying one given whose involved. Jeez at Enzo in this setting. Everyone’s going to be feeling the damage of this one even by the time the main event comes on. Because I don’t see a bunch of flying off of ladders this is probably going to be full of stupidly stiff shots that don’t look good and nobody remembers. Nobody will remember Karl Anderson taking flat back bumps onto a ladder even by the time the show is over. Best case scenario for my enjoyment of the match is that they play how close can we come to maiming Enzo without actually doing it. Wrestlemania so the babyfaces should win, toss a coin to decide which.









SmackDown Women's Championship
Alexa Bliss (c) vs. Becky Lynch vs. Carmella vs. Naomi vs. Natalya vs. Mickie James

I don’t really get the point in Naomi coming back on the Smackdown before the show and not on the show itself. At least save whatever pop it would get for the main show. I’d hope that they have some surprise entrant for the match but it looks unlikely now. Becky Lynch being an afterthought in all of this is odd. Although I guess everyone feels like an afterthought in this tbh. Lumping them all together should make for a better match in the sense it’s more action at a faster pace. It should be easier to sit through than any combination of them in a 10 minute singles bout. Naomi wins because that’s what the story is. The whole hometown girl thing is weird at a Wrestlemania where it’s not exactly a hometown crowd.









WWE Cruiserweight Championship (Kickoff Match)
Neville (c) vs. Austin Aries

I don’t know why anyone was surprised this got put on the pre-show. Disappointed sure but nobody should be surprised. WWE’s pre-shows are weird because they’re basically just a slow lead in to the main show rather than being a big last minute shill to attract extra viewers. The idea of the pre-show that’s plugging for you to buy the network being on that same exclusive network is so odd. It’s kinda baffling that after all this time WWE haven’t managed to get their pre-shows on a station with a large audience reach. Maybe ESPN for instance. The whole idea of a pre-show is to attract potential viewers who weren’t going to watch the main show to come across the pre-show that they can access for free. Then they watch the pre-show and hopefully get sucked in enough to want to see more and spend money to watch the main show. 

Match quality wise they’ll still go out and have a technically very good match. The issue is how early on in the pre-show they place it. If it’s the match right before the start of the main show when everyone is already in the stadium they should be just fine. If it’s in the first hour of the pre-show and they get the Kallisto/Ryback deal of having to work a match in front of a half empty stadium while everyone is coming in then the match will struggle regardless of how good it is because it’ll just be background entertainment. Both guys deserve better but no match deserves that slot. Even the Battle Royal has too many relevant names in to be given that treatment. But it’s going to happen to one match. At least they won’t get their time cut when the main show runs long. I’m not overly fussed if this doesn’t deliver even to mild expectations because they’ll rematch in a setting more likely to let them have the great match they’re capable of together and as long as the cruiserweight division is treated as an island to itself the perception of its importance on the show won’t change. 

I’m expecting a perfectly serviceable *** match with maybe ½* either way depending on how many people are watching the match in the stadium. Who wins doesn’t matter because like I said before, they’ll rematch after anyway and a loss won’t hurt either guy much because they’re both already over with the match quality fans. I’d give Aries the win just because if it’s a toss up put the babyface over. Plus I don’t think there’s a bigger star coming into the division to dethrone Neville than Aries. 










2017 Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal (Kickoff Match)


Braun only getting onto the pre-show is strange in a way but it’s better than him working a nothing match with a Dean Ambrose type guy. This will be a better showcase for him than just about any one-on-one match would. Sami winning by eliminating Strowman would be cool but only if he’s getting elevated to a higher level afterwards which I’m pretty sure he won’t be. It’s a Battle Royal, let’s just hope that one cool thing happens. At least by being on the pre-show the crowd might be a bit more into it than if it was stuck between the marquee matches 4 hours into the show. I’m all for them trying to top the randomness of Shaq coming out last year.*​


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Wrestlemania 33

Aries/Neville-***1/2
Battle Royal-*
Ambrose/Corbin-**1/4
Styles/Shane-***3/4
KO/Jericho-***1/2
4 way Women-**3/4
4 way Ladder-***3/4
Mixed Tag-**1/4
Seth/Hunter-***3/4
Bray/Orton-*1/2
Lesnar/Goldberg-***1/4
6 way women-**
Taker/Roman-**1/2

One of the most up and down manias of all time and unfortunately the finishing stretch was maybe the worst in mania history. The WWE title match and Taker/Roman were particularly bad in both exececution and layout. The main event was so sloppy and all over the place, forget about the outcome even it was one of the worst main events in a long time. 

The show started with promise and then peaked with the Hardys return and win. Then the crowd was just done, even for most of the Hunter and Seth match which I thought was very good. Brock and Taker brought them back with an exciting 5 minute war, but it was not enough to save the show.

Up until the mixed tag this could have been on pace to be one of the best manias and then it went right off a cliff.

Still 4 or 5 good matches but no classics and the booking of some of the main matches was disgraceful. 

Overall 5.5/10


----------



## Racing (Feb 2, 2017)

Styles/Shane ~ *** 3/4
Owens/Jericho ~ *** 1/4
Raw Women's Title ~ ***
Ladder Match ~ *** 3/4
Mixed Tag ~ **
Rollins/Trips ~ **** 1/4
Orton/Wyatt ~ *
Lesnar/Goldberg ~ ***
SmackDown Women's Title ~ *
Reigns/Undertaker ~ ** 1/2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Aries/Neville - ***1/2
Battle Royal - *
Ambrose/Corbin - **

Styles/McMahon - ***
Owens/Jericho - ***
Raw Women's Title - ***1/4
Raw Tag Titles Ladder match - ****
Cena-Nikki/Miz-Maryse - **
HHH/Rollins - **1/2
Orton/Wyatt - *1/2
Lesnar/Goldberg - **3/4
SD Women's Title - *1/4
Reigns/Taker - *3/4
Undertaker's send off - ************** + all the tears in the world

- Loved the finish of Neville/Aries to keep it going and eventually build to Aries getting the win.

- For two guys who I'd hope would be angry as fuck for getting bumped to the pre-show, Ambrose/Corbin had a very nothing match.

- Styles/McMahon exceeded expectations. It picked up after the ref bump. It was kind of weird and hokey seeing McMahon actually get any sort of wrestling in on Styles, but when he started killing himself it worked. 

- Owens/Jericho was only slightly above my expectations but I really didn't expect much and wasn't all that interested anyways.

- Raw women's title match was too short.

- The ladder match was fun, helped by The Hardyz surprise appearance and victory. I hope they keep the #BROKEN stuff on WWE television.

- Mixed tag was just for the moment, and it was fine. Whatever. It doesn't affect me in anyway whatsoever.

- HHH/Rollins would have been a fine WRESTLING match, but they built up this Unsanctioned war so you set your expectations at a certain level where these guys would kill each other and then they put out this dud. It probably would have been better if they just advertised a straight-up match and cut the time by about 5-8 minutes. The best part was Stephanie McMahon in that leather.

- Orton/Wyatt was the drizzling shits full of hokey pokey bullshit that ultimately had no affect on the match. Why? Wyatt looks like a chump. I shouldn't have expected anything different, but I was holding out hope and left disappointed.

- Lesnar/Goldberg was essentially a short version of Lesnar/Cena, but it was fun and got the crowd up thankfully and had the right winner compared to the WWE Title match. I forgot how fun it was to watch Lesnar throw people around. Now Goldberg can fuck off.

- SD Women's Title... I didn't even expect it to happen at this point. Whatever.

- Reigns/Taker was just painful. It was so painful watching Taker move around and see the visible pain he was in, but the send off afterwards was beautiful and emotional as fuck. That's a guy who gave it his all for 27 years and can now start taking care of himself. He deserves it.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Aries vs. Neville - ***1/2

Battle Royal - * (such shit, omg)

Ambrose vs. Corbin - Didn't watch lol

AJ vs. Shane - **3/4 (AJ actually pulled a decent match outta Shane, goddamn)

Owens vs. Jericho - ***1/4 (this is pretty much the default grade for BIG RIVALRY~ matches in WWE nowadays; just regular good matches with very little substance)

Raw Women's Championship Four-Way - ** (all the eliminations sucked, my God :lmao)

Raw Tag Titles Ladder Match - ***3/4 

Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse - **1/4 

Rollins vs. HHH - ***3/4 (better than I expected, actually; nice selling on the leg there, good moment with Steph getting TABLED~)

Wyatt vs. Orton - *1/2 (what the fuck was up with the bug footage in the ring? Just why :lmao boring as fuck match, Jesus)

Lesnar vs. Goldberg - **1/4 (for sure their best match... ugh)

Smackdown Women's Title Match - Iunno, *? **? Who cares

Undertaker vs. Reigns - ** (started out okay, predictably turned into shit. No further comments)


Overall: 4.5/10 'Mania. For sure better than last year's, actually popped here and there (Hardyz return for example, and I really dislike Jeff, but it was still really cool to see), but still found it pretty lackluster. No real surprises aside from the aforementioned, so eh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lesnar/Goldberg was a fucking rush of adrenaline. That was seriously awesome and my MOTN. Ratings are tentative for now until proper rewatches.

Show was up and down but I still enjoyed it as a whole. Neville/Aries was fantastic (****) and Styles/Shane really evolved into some good shit despite me not really liking the start (****). Owens/Jericho was real solid (*** 1/2). I wasn't paying too much attention to the ladder match because everyone in my house was freaking out about the Hardys return. :lol It looked real fun though, have to rewatch it sometime. HHH/Rollins was my most anticipated match on the night and I enjoyed it, but boy they could've done so much more. Probably like *** 1/2. No reason why we didn't see a curb stomp, blood, interference, etc. 

On the other side of the spectrum, Andre Battle Royal was a total joke. Stupid shit. Ambrose/Corbin was forgettable. The RAW women's 4-way was the biggest disappointment of the night BY FAR for me. The eliminations were extremely weak. Orton/Wyatt I thought I had a good start with the urgency but then it was literally nothing but finishers and kicking out. Why the fuck did Orton win too? And I'm an Orton fan!  Main event was trash. So glad Taker is hanging them up now. That was really difficult to watch in the last 5-10 minutes. Fucking Reigns of all people got this rub too...Save​


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM 33 Ratings

AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon* ***1/2*
Owens vs Jericho-* ****
Fatal 4 Way Elimination ****- Remember when, before the Women's Wrestlers were branded as such and everything didn't feel forced, there was once a time when these women were stealing the show?
Ladder Match* ***3/4*
Mixed Tag* ***
HHH vs Rollins ***1/2*- Rollins shitty selling hurt this. Also didn't feel like it was non sanctioned
Wyatt vs Orton vignette *******
Wyatt vs Orton *** 
Lesnar vs Goldberg *FUN*
Roman Reigns vs Undertaker ***1/4*

It's amazing how much of a difference 10 years makes. 10 years ago Taker was killing it and WM 23 the hype of the 'Streak Match'. Now....damn. Oh well, an amazing send off for Taker. Brock should have never gotten the win. Reigns' win means nothing tbh. Maybe might have meant more if he was the only one. Would have been nice to turn him as well. Still, best Taker match since his match with Punk. 

Also, Shane/AJ came out of nowhere. Maybe it's because I was expecting it to be the drizzling but it could easily be MOTN. Did anyone else find that Shane was stiff as fuck though? And the way he was throwing AJ around was so damn careless. Oh well, sleeper hit for sure.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Aries/Neville - N/A
Battle Royal - DUD
Ambrose/Corbin - **

Styles/McMahon - ***
Owens/Jericho - **1/2
Raw Women's Title - **3/4
Raw Tag Titles Ladder match - ***
Cena-Nikki/Miz-Maryse - *
HHH/Rollins - **1/4
Orton/Wyatt - 1/2*
Lesnar/Goldberg - **1/2
SD Women's Title - *
Reigns/Taker - *

Yeah, I didn't enjoy this show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*THE UNDERTAKER*

:mj2 :mj2 :mj2

Now _*that's*_ the end of an era. Not that bleh stuff from a few years ago.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I thought the first half of Mania was GOAT Wrestlemania worthy to be honest. 

We got real fun matches and one of the greatest Wrestlemania moments with Hardys returning with one of the biggest pops in Mania history and then going on to win the damn belts. 

The second half was NEVER going to sustain the momentum with the matches they had left. 

But I enjoyed the PPV as a whole. Loved Lesnar/Goldberg. Was fun as hell and booked perfectly.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Neville vs Aries - ***1/4
Battle Royal - Dud (Legit terrible)
Ambrose vs Corbin - **

Shane vs AJ - ***1/4
(SHane was surprising here. The match started with such electricity but it sadly took a minor detour in order to put Shane across as an equal. Still, he delivered everything, a kitchen sink and every bolt and screw he could find. Big props to Shane)

Owens vs Jericho - **1/2
(I was worried this could be a bit meandering and laboursome. Jericho hasn't looked sharp in the ring and Owens might not stylistically match up to him. But they worked well and I am excited if they go with a street fight stipulation in the coming weeks).

RAW Womens - **1/2 
(This was surprisingly a match I wanted to go to a bit longer. They were up for it but the finishes, damn. Charlotte in one year has eclipsed all her competitors.)

Fatal Four-Way Tag - ***1/2
(Spent the first few minutes in disbelief, never expected the Hardys. Good spotfest.)

Rollins vs Triple H - **
(They played it simple which was exactly what they had to do. No qualms, surprised to see Triple H put on a digestible Wrestlemania match for once. But he's still the antithesis of Mr Wrestlemania)

Orton vs Wyatt - Dud
(And Orton is likely in second place for antithesis of Mr. Wrestlemania. I don't know what this is but I expected so much more from third generation wrestlers. Instead, Wyatt got given the Ambrose end of the stick this year)

Lesnar vs Goldberg - ***1/2
(Perhaps the best short match I've seen. Loved this. Just creeps MotN)

Undertaker vs Roman Reigns - Dud 
(This was just sad. I don't blame either performer but this was essentially just a short kid turning up to get beaten down by the school bully.)

Two main event duds and nothing that pops out as must watch. But it was still great fun to watch.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

WrestleMania 33 ratings

Neville vs Aries - ***

Glad this was on the pre-show because no way would this have been given the time it needed on the main show. Really well paced stiff match that never veered into dumb spotty nonsense. Aries did a good job seeking sympathy from the crowd after those NASTY snap Germans where he was dropped on his head, which was pleasing, because I wouldn't usually call that a great strength of his.

Ambrose vs Corbin - DUD

I don't get the love for the robotic and dead behind the eyes Corbin, but he was on a hiding to nothing here. Ambrose is easily one of the worst workers in the company at this point. He has always had an awkward running gait, dodgy footwork and generally weird 'gross motor skills', which when combined with his AWFUL strikes limited his ability to look credible. However he has shown the ability to play a good fip in the past. Totally phoned it in tonight though and looked like he couldn't wait to go home and call it a night. Crowd gave zero shits and neither worker did anything to get them into this at a time when it should have been easy to get the crowd hot.

Andre Battle Royal - 1/2*

Generous rating for Jinder's fun heel work towards the end. This was total garbage for the most part, which is par for the course for most of these battle royals. Would have been far more interesting if they had actually let Braun and Show dominate the match for a while and have an epic show down for a minute, before they eliminate each other somehow. Doesn't matter who wins this because the match means jack shit in the grand scheme of things, so good for Mojo. If ever there was a scenario that summed up how ready and willing WWE are to bend over and take it up the arse from mainstream celebrities in return for a modicum of attention then it was this. LMAO at security lady not being in on the work for the Gronk run in, now that was a real WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT~!

AJ vs Shane - ***

Giving this the objective credit it deserves through gritted teeth. Replace Shane with any young up and coming babyface and this is an unquestionably good match with a star making performance against an already established pseudo "heel". I think my real problem with this was that AJ Styles was made to look second best in every category throughout most of the match against a glorified non-wrestler who's close to 50-years-old. Shane out wrestled him, out punched him, got to show off a bunch of smart looking mma reversals and controlled far too much of the match. Take out your pedantic logical pro-wrestling brain and it's easy enough to look past though. There was never a real chance to feel any major sympathy for Shane either, which seemed off considering the angle that they built to this match with. Regardless of all that, this was decent for what it was and the high spots were well worked into the match. Crowd was actually into this too which helped.

Owens vs Jericho - *1/2

Have a perfectly booked best friends fall out and vicious heel turn story only to have a slow boring tv match m8s. There was no heat in this when it needed to be a grudge match. Jericho is beyond washed up in the ring these days and Owens is crap as a heel ring worker, so this always had a very limited ceiling going in regardless of how they worked this, but yeah they didn't even hit that ceiling. Finish was completely flat.

Raw women - **

Winner of 'match of the night that real could have benefited from another 5-10 minutes' award. Totally rushed and the last two falls were dead as a result of this. The opening segment with Nia vs everyone was GREAT and the girls tried their best to tell some cute little stories for each elimination, but with such time restraints they were on a hiding to nothing. They sacrificed the 'someone beats Charlotte on ppv pop' a month ago in total nonsense circumstances and it would have meant far more on this stage, but still would have been hindered because of the abrupt ending to the match.

Hardy Boyz return - *****

I was joking about real WrestleMania moments earlier but this was as organic a genuine big time deal on the grandest stage that I can remember in a long time. I was completely prepared for WWE to disappoint me and have New Day just introduce themselves in the end because WWE love to underwhelm their fans, but thankfully they didn't do that and they deserve full credit for getting this spot on. When you're a cynical pretentious wrestling critic and you're fist pumping and shouting at the tv you know they've "got you". Goosebumps.

Raw tag ladder - **

Let's be real, this meant nothing before the Hardys returned and was likely to be an awkward match at best, considering the other three teams involved either stiff brutes (Cesaro and Sheamus) or terribly dull ring workers (the other two teams) working a heatless three way tag. The ladder stip added some intrigue and the Hardys gave this match a purpose in terms of a team to strongly root for. Match wasn't much other than a spectacle with a few high spots and the DELETE schtick being over as fuck. Jeff popping the crowd with his standard :woytf stunt spot followed by Matt quickly going home and grabbing the belts afterwards made this a perfectly booked finish within the circumstances. The Hardys winning was the correct decision as they looked like REAL STARS and anyone else winning would have either been flat or just plain killed the crowd. Now watch WWE take the Hardys' momentum and somehow completely kill it within a couple of months.

Cena/Nikki vs Miz/Maryse - *

The crowd reactions in this should tell you exactly why you don't book your hottest heel duo against John Cena and Nikki Bella in front of a hardcore crowd. Miz dominated the match, acted obnoxiously, wasted time and pissed about but the crowd was fully behind him. It didn't help that he pandered to them so much in the end, but I'm assuming he read the situation and thought "fuck it this is a lost cause" and decided to make something out of it. I'm a Cena fan but the finish was a hilariously bad self-aware *nudge nudge wink wibk* super Cena comeback, shrugging off everything Miz did with ease. Shout out to Maryse for nailing her limited spots. Post match proposal shenanigans seemed surprisingly sincere considering this was a WWE production and the angle was based on reality tv show.

HHH's entrance - HA HA HA HA

This was hilarious for all of the wrong reasons. Replace that bike with a Segway and this might as well have been a tribute to Paul Blart Mall Cop 2. I was in stitches watching this! If hhh has any sense he omits this from the future 20 minute hall of fame video package (including those mastubatory nxt takeover intros) that his EGO is pushing him to compile. He looked like the biggest dork on the show doing this, despite wrestling a guy who entered the arena doing Power Rangers cosplay.

HHH vs Rollins - *

Self-indulgent long winded HHH forced "epic"? Check. Boring HHH control segment that killed the crowd? Check. Awful spotty selling from Rollins? Check. Rollins being a shit tier babyface and failing to draw any real sympathy? Check. This was everything I expected it to be. Finish was good and had the crowd hot though so that's something.

Wyatt vs Orton - DUD

This was the worst type of Wrestlecrap/10, which was appropriate given the convoluted, nonsensical and hokey bad fan-fic build. The first maggots image was awfully cheesy, silly and looked STUPID (says this in unprofessional Orton berating Kofi voice), but I think it would have been passable if it had ended there. But WWE being WWE they have to beat a dead horse, so they did it two more times and put this into "switch the channel to freeview porn so your friends/family don't catch you watching this" wrestling territory. The sad thing is those were the highlights of the match! Orton has been a bland, robotic, zero fucks given and going through the motions worker for years, so pairing him with a terrible "wrestler who should be a manager for monster heels" like Bray Wyatt is asking for trouble. Crowd didn't care about this at all either. To think people wanted this to close the show as well. Oh dear...

Brock vs Goldberg - **1/2

The best way to sum up why this was the best booked match on the show is to break it down in the following ways: Did I care about this going into the show? No. Did I care during the match and at the finish? 100%. It seems the crowd were similar too, as they had been killed by the previous two matches and produced the mildest Goldberg chant of all time upon his entrance (partly the after effect of him squashing the popular KO). However, the first two brilliant minutes of this had them back on side and this felt hot for the very limited time it was given. Spear barricade spot is one of the best I've ever seen. Total destruction. Goldberg was surprisingly willing to take all those German bumps and in this short powerhouse scenario it worked without becoming tedious. Brock's leapfrog to evade a spear in the corner was utterly breathtaking athleticism too. A nutty sub-five minute fun fest which completely exceeded my expectations, as I expected this to go a little bit longer and a be a lot worse in the form of a forced epic.

Smackdown women 1/2*

A total mess as expected. The Smackdown women's roster is poor and the belt has been booked to mean very little via pro-wrestling communism, but Naomi winning at least produced a babyface moment that the crowd enjoyed.

Reigns vs Undertaker - *

They tried to tell a compelling John Wayne's last stand story via Taker and it worked to a point, but he's so washed up at this point that any match was going to be a struggle without either a) a more agile worker to do the running and bumping around for Taker or b) the crowd to completely carry this. Reigns isn't a) and b) didn't happen because the crowd was poor all night and they were most likely beyond burnt out after 7 hours of largely dross "sports entertainment". I'll give Reigns credit for playing up the heelish tendencies, but without an actual strong heelish finish this ended up being really flat. You know Reigns is booked super strong in ring when the fans don't root for Taker because they're already at the acceptance stage of the 'five stages of grief and loss of Taker's career' before the opening bell sounds. The hate towards WWE's booking of Reigns largely seemed to become apathy last night. I wonder how WWE will spin that in the future if it becomes any sort of trend. "Their silence is a HUGE sign of respect for the BIG DOG Maggle!"

Taker retirement - *****

It was beyond time for him to go and thankfully he realises that now. If you're going to end Mania on a sad more then this is the way to do it, with a spectacular walk off into the sunset darkness moment. A special moment that was given the respect it deserved. Hopefully the 2 in 23 and 2 battle at Mania 34 between Brock and Reigns does this man's career and WrestleMania legacy sacrifice the justice it deserves match wise. However, we already know it won't in the grand scheme of things beyond that match from bell to bell, because WWE have made a total mess of their booking of Reigns, with continually worse or stagnant live house show attendances and tv ratings as a backdrop.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wrestlemania-33-ppv-ramble/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

{Revised NXT Takeover ratings: Triple Threat Tag - **1/2, Roode/Nakamura II, **1/4)
*
WRESTLEMANIA 33*
---------------------
Neville/Aries - ***1/4
Andre Battle Royal - DUD
Ambrose/Corbin - *
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shane/Styles - ***1/2
Jericho/Owens - ***
Women's 4-Way - **1/2
Ladder 4-Way - SPOTFEST
Cena & Nikki/Miz & Maryse - *1/4
HHH/Rollins - *1/2
Wyatt/Orton - 1/2*
Goldberg/Lesnar - **3/4
SD Women's Title - 1/2*
Taker/Reigns - *

WM 33. The show of fun starts, boring middles, and anti-climatic endings.

The pre-show kinda sucked. The Andre Battle Royal was AWFUL, just fucking AWFUL. Nothing but a ploy for some NFL dipshit to look good. I mean, that moment was kinda fun, but didn't save the match at all. Is it worth mentioning that Jinder fucking Mahal lasted longer than Strowman, Zayn or Big Show? Just... :lol. Ambrose/Corbin started fun, then got really boring. Neville/Aries was pretty damn good, however, even if it took a while to kick into 3rd gear. 2nd best match on the show, and of the WWE WM weekend for me (better than anything on Takeover).

Shane/Styles I really, really enjoyed. Shane's awful punches and cardio as well as the obvious overbooking aside, they told a good story, w/Shane putting a more than respectable performance for a non-wrestler (he seemed to have watched that Angle match quite a lot), Styles just being his awesome self, and the two clicking for a super fun match. Show stealer of the weekend for my money.

Jericho/Owens was good. Not gonna lie. I liked it. Better than I expected. About as good as a babyface Jericho match will be in 2017. There was some irkful shit like finisher kick-outs and one or two unnecessary flips by Owens, and BY GOD Jericho's offense is just awful, but honestly, I thought that, apart from those few hiccups, Owens did a terrific job of controlling the pace and playing a douche. The character work was on fire, and you really felt the heat between the two men. And I admit... the Powerbomb Codebreaker counter, as predictable as it was, was kinda cool.

I was also fond of the Raw women's match, though not much. The Nia Jax part was well done logic and execution wise, and the Charlotte vs. Bayley final off was terrific. The middle was meh. But holy Christ cunt, this was rushed beyond belief. Why book an elimination match when you know the show's not gonna have THAT much time after all? Every single fall was awfully anti-climatic. Anyway, this wasn't bad, but could've really used at least 10 minutes more.

The Ladder match was a dumb, idiotic, brainless spotfest, to the surprise of no one. BUUUUT... the Hardys' return was really, REALLY well handled. And honestly, I'm not gonna shit you, I grinned like a Joker seeing that last minute of the two of them doing crazy ladder spots alas E&C/Dudleys/Hardys three-ways back in the early 2000's. A true nostalgia rush done right. Not sure if they should've won the titles, but ehh, who cares.

The Mixed Tag was, like I expected, a match you won't remember a few hours from now. But The Miz is a fucking legend, and he made it enjoyable entirely on his own. How did he evolve from one of the worst wrestlers in existance to a guy that can carry a 1st hour of Smackdown at best material time waster that was thrown to WM just for Cena to propose to his girl in a twist of fate that only someone who's lived under a rock didn't see coming? Maryse looked good, too. Bolded word being "looked".

HHH/Rollins.... kinda sucked. Again, started off pretty fun, and I really enjoyed the direction they were headed for. Hell, I thought HHH did well in this, and he honestly outperformed Seth. But my God, Seth makes Shinsuke Nakamura look like Rey Mysterio when it comes to leg selling. His complete disregard for making me believe his knee was actually hurt and he wasn't being stupid about it threw me off in a way that even Naka/Joe from Toronto didn't. The curse of WM HHH matches continues (a curse that only Daniel motherfucking Bryan has broken in the last 5 years).

Wyatt/Orton was one of the most bizarre matches I have ever seen. It was not good, I can tell you that, as while it started a lot of fun, then it got super dull... outside of WWE's oddball attempt to mimick Fear Factor. I'll admit that the 1st time they did that, it was pretty creepy. But when they started beating on a dead horse, it just got cheesy and stupid. This match felt more like a twisted experiment than an actual wrestling achievement, and.... well, Orton winning the title didn't help at all.

Goldberg/Lesnar was AWESOME. Like, FUCKING AWESOME.... for the 5 minutes it lasted. A Goddamn spectacle if there ever was one. Anyone who knows me knows I hate finisher fests. BUT, if there was ever a time to do one, it was this match, and they nailed it. It was such ridiculous fun, two unstoppable behemoths just killing each other w/everything they had. So great to finally get a good match between these two. Buuuut, in THE most anti-climatic ending of the night, Brock just pinned him w/one F-5. C'mon, WWE! You had the one perfect opportunity to go batshit ballistic w/finishers! Have Goldberg kick out of that, to cement that one F-5 may not be strong enough to put him down, then have Brock go Hulk and just throw him all over the place, like.... Suplexes through announce tables and shit, cap things off w/an F-5 off the top rope, and you'd have the greatest 6-7 minute match in wrestling history. Still, it was really fun for what it was.

The SD women's match was what I expected it to be. Naomi has a cool entrance, girls kick each other, Naomi wins. But for what it was, it was remotely entertaining, so at least it wasn't absolute trash. It was bad by most standards, but I wouldn't kill myself if I had to watch it again. A fun trashy mega-clusterfuck. End of story.

Taker/Reigns. Oh, you poor thing. Managed to be arguably worse than HHH/Reigns last year as far as actual quality is concerned. It had a very fun start, it was a true 101 in wrestling punches for all kids to learn, and a few extremely epic visuals here or there... but oh boy, it was messy all the way through, painfully boring in some bits, and Taker looked like he was about to die (no pun intended). HOWEVER, Taker's farewell was the strongest ending to a WM since at least D-Bry's title win. And that's what this match will be forever remembered for. By all accounts, it counts as one of Taker's worst WM matches ever (and, while Roman totally tried, he didn't really look all THAT good himself, so it's not like he's out of the dog house here). But nobody will care in the veins of history. Because all this will be remembered as is the last time that one of the greatest of all time put on a pair of boots and walked out there to entertain a crowd. That, people, is how you truly evoke an emotional, captivating and truly memorable end of an era (take tips, Trips).

So yeah, WM 33. Not a good show. At all. But certainly better than last year's. Okay, beat for beat, maybe last year actually had a better card (which is fucking sad when you think about it), but 33 was nowhere near as emotionally, psychologically or even physically exhausting. Despite the many shortcomings, I actually had fun for the majority of the show, which was filled w/at least decent booking choices (anti-climatic endings and Bray Wyatt losing the title aside) and a lot of memorable moments. Even though there were plenty of shitty matches, this felt like a WM to me, in between the glamour, the highlight reel of moments and even one or two of the actual matches. So yeah. Not really a fan of this show, but I enjoyed it more than the shit festival of 32.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Of course Cal comes up with the highest rating yet for Taker/Reigns and think it's MOTN. :lol


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

_*I definitely can't say that I hated the show but no it was not good. I had very low expectations though and it might have very slightly surpassed them. 7 hours and 10 minutes is just way too long for a wrestling show in one sitting even if you have a fucking fantastic card in front of a rabid crowd. 7 hours requires you basically to spend half of your day watching the event. 5 hours is a long ass show but if it's a great show that the live crowd are into for the big matches it's not an issue. UFC 205 I watched everything of and that was a fucking marathon of a viewing experience even with forwarding through the between fights parts but that show was so brilliant it was still a great viewing experience. WWE sure as shit aren't producing a show anytime soon that is good enough to be even 5 hours long let alone 7.

I thought Aries/Neville was really good. It was the 5th longest match on the card and longer than the WWE Title and the John Cena match on a Wrestlemania card. In fact you can add the Brock Lesnar match to either of them and this was still longer than either of them combined. I don't why that's of relevance after typing it but I sure as shit ain't backspacing it now. I really liked the finish sequence. Neville getting out of the Last Chancery by clawing at Aries' broken eye socket ruled and Aries sold it like he was Red Viper.

I was enjoying the Battle Royal up until Strowman got tossed and then it was trash. I didn't mind Strowman not winning but the way he was eliminated did nothing for nobody. If it wasn't Strowman winning then it absolutely should have been Zayn eliminating Strowman as the final 2. Instead we got WWE's masturbatory a celeb from a more popular universe than ours like us EJACULATE. Fucking Mojo Rawley. I don't know who Rob Gronkowski is but I suppose that might have been nice if you do. Until you remember that Mojo Rawley won and I don't think anyone likes Mojo Rawley. Jinder Mahal was in the final 2. Think about that. Kallisto was the 2nd person eliminated in this jobber fest. Sin Cara deserves a push for the effort he put into his Wrestlemania outfit. The Chinese guy did a good job if hiding and then a great at looking lost when he wasn't hiding. I know it's hard to have a showcase performance in a Battle Royal but Dain did nothing to make me think he was good or want to see more of him. Vince's mentality though is put a guy in a Battle Royal for a long time and that'll get them over. Except it means jack shit if they do nothing. This match should have been about Strowman, Show and Sami and instead it was about Mojo Rawley and Jinder Mahal. I'm totally fine with them not pushing Sami Zayn atm because he'll get his turn eventually because fucking everyone does and it'll mean more when it does happen this way but jesus you have to give the guy SOMETHING along the way and this was it.

Ambrose/Corbin sucked. Ambrose is so bad. Corbin's improved to the point he can probably have a really fun match with a great bumper but Ambrose is definitely not that. I don't understand Corbin losing either.

AJ/Shane was absolute bullshit until it turned into the Shane formula. I never had a problem with this pairing because I figured it would be a trash hardcore match with memorable Shane McMahon spots. This was everything it absolutely shouldn't have been. Shane hanging with all these stars has always been fine with me because the gimmick is he can't hang with them as a wrestler but in a hardcore setting he can use weapons as equalisers and he makes a contest out of it because he'll take so much punishment and keep coming back. Here he was winning wrestling exchanges with AJ Styles. The same AJ Styles who less than a year ago was working the same exchanges with JOHN CENA and the gimmick was Cena couldn't hang with AJ in that department. Yet now we have SHANE McMAHON doing what John Cena couldn't do. Once they got to the highspots it was more fun but I was already pissed at the match and why in god's name was this not a Street Fight.

Owens/Jericho bored the life out of me. It was everything I expected it to be. Jericho's character work this run has been brilliant but he's been a total DUD in the ring.

Women's 4 Way was really garbage. I can't really sit here and say a match needed more time on a 7 hour show but this really did. They worked Nia's involvement as they should apart from Charlotte being way too babyface and not once cowarding away from Nia but instead being the one to constantly take the fight to her. Once Nia was gone she at least remember she was a heel but this was not a showcase for anyone. I was literally staring at the ceiling reshuffling myself into a new more comfortable position when Sasha got eliminated. That was pretty garbage but not half as garbage as the actual finish was. I'm all for secondary manoeuvrers being able to pick up the odd win but WRESTLEMANIA is not the time to do that for the first time ever. You do in a 5 minute Raw match with Dana Brooke and hope it fools enough people into thinking it could be a 3 count in the big PPV match. Talk about a flat ending. I wasn't expecting this to be great but I was definitely expecting it to be something of a match. 12 minutes wouldn't be short for any of these as a singles combination but none of the 3 falls got time to be anything of anything. Spectacularly unmemorable.

At this point in the show I was starting to fear the worst until THE HARDYS popped me. I somewhat saw it coming because this match had no business being on the main show without something extra being added to it and the Ladder Match stip was very last minute and very random. I really did expect New Day to add themselves to the match even though that spot was always going to get everyone chanting for The Hardys but it would be so WWE to put The New Day in that spot to add themselves and get massive heat. Cool surprise and the pop from it made what was really an average nothing match a fun one to watch. Not a lot at all in terms of spots but this had a fun viewing atmosphere because of the surprise.

New Day did nothing as hosts btw which was kind of lame. I popped for the levers spot though. I was really disappointed at now surprise appearances besides The Hardys though. No surprise legends promo. No cool backstage skits. Again, not that show needed more adding to it but stuff like that is what makes the legend of Wrestlemania.

To give WWE credit they did a fantastic job making the Mixed Tag feel like a big match and I kinda enjoyed it but a lot of that was due to the excitement from The Hardys surprise and Lawler's outstanding cameo. Lawler had me howling with some of his lines. I think if this had come before the Ladder Match I would have absolutely hated it because it was worked so weirdly. Cena just got his ass kicked the entire match by Miz with no shine at the start. And Miz was constantly pandering for cheers. So odd. John Cena making the hot tag at Wrestlemania to Nikki Bella was something I never thought I'd see. Nikki did a great job of looking shocked at Cena proposing. They really are such an odd couple. If you had any doubts who this was aimed at listen to the reaction when he proposed.

Seth/Hunter was MOTN. Really good match I thought. Went how I expected it to except it worked way better than I thought it would. Leg work was good and Seth sold it really well. Finishing run wasn't really long enough for Seth to undo it all too. I was surprised they didn't have a bigger spectacle at the end of the match. It just kinda ended like you'd expect this to if it was a Triple H match on a B PPV in 2000. Steph bump was nice and totally made up for emasculating everyone for an entire year since her last bump. Match was good but the crowd were just not into it at all. They really needed that big spectacle at the end to give them something to pop for. I was shocked there was no Joe interference. Joe didn't even make the show at all which is odd but better than him being in the Battle Royal. That said he could have won that thing. Long show and stadium atmosphere hurt this a lot. Lel at Shane's kids in the front row to cheer on Uncle Paul and heckle Seth. I'd say around ***3/4 level which isn't a super MOTN but I only had 3 matches I'd put at or above the *** mark (Aries/Neville and the Ladder Match being the other 2 and the Ladder Match wouldn't be above just for the action itself).

Orton/Bray was a DUD and a half. Bray's "magic" spots are the type of shit that make you want the actual world to eat you up if someone sees you watching it. How does that mess with Orton's head? He wasn't even phased by it. Bray Wyatt is turning into an all time bad character who struggles toe even have good matches. And the point of Orton burning down the house was? Stupid gimmickery aside the match sucked anyway. Bray came back from an RKO on the floor to work another control segment.

Goldberg/Lesnar was fun and then it ended less than 5 minutes in and I was like "oh" when it ended. They were always going to work more of a match here but I thought at least 8 minutes was a guarantee. Lesnar has a ridiculous deal getting all that money for never having to work a match over 5 minutes or cut a promo. It never fails to make me shake my head at how bad they've botched getting BROCK LESNAR back. They make everyone less over than they are when they come in. Goldberg is another brutal example of it. Match was a fun spotfest but they should have done a lot more. What they did was structured as a bit of a mess too. That video package was fantastic at least. I suppose Brock now holds for a year before facing Reigns at 34. That should mean more televised Brock matches but I have no desire to see a Lesnar match at this stage until he gets to Reigns. How spectacular of an achievement is that.

Smackdown Women's Match was garbage. I know they've well and truly brought into this belief that they need a filler match between main events but that's garbage because it's not a problem for anyone else and the reasons crowds die out towards the end of long shows isn't because they need a long breather before the final match. If anything it takes them further out of the show having a prolonged nap period. In a way I feel bad for all involved in this because they were sent out there to die but none of them were good or have done anything good since the roster split. Becky's outfit was weird. Naomi sucks.

When they announced out of nowhere this was No Holds Barred I had Mania 17 flashbacks and I started buying all in on this being Reigns turning. Especially with it going on last because it surely had a big reason to go on last. I guess it did it just wasn't the heel turn. I love how they think the solution to get Reigns over more is have him beat more top guys to make him more credible. Because a lack of big wins and a lack of credibility is the issue. With Taker retiring he probably should have lost but it does nothing for Reigns to beat him. Honestly I just would have had Taker win and ride off into the sunset as a winner. This would have been a big deal had they announced ahead this was Taker's last match and if The Streak was still alive. They and Taker obviously knew this was farewell so keeping it secret is baffling. The only reason I can think of is Taker wanted it that way. Imagine if The Streak was still in tact and Roman cheated to win here and retired Taker with it. Instead we got Taker's last match with barely any suspense in front a lethargic crowd. Stadiums suck up atmosphere and it always hurts Mania shows but even factoring that this never felt like a hot crowd. It'll never happen but arena shows produce such a better atmosphere but Mania is all about a big cash in for WWE and not producing a good show with the best atmosphere possible. The match itself was passable and got by for me on the intrigue of if something big would happen. And it didn't and then I was almost totally zoned out by the finish. They were obviously going for a really emotional conclusion but it was just flat. Taker retiring doesn't do anything to me. If it came when The Streak ended it would be something big but since then it's felt like he's been past his sell by date and sticking around just because without producing anything good. Wipe away post streak Undertaker and I don't think you lose anything of value to anyone.*_


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Aries/Neville - **
Battle Royal - DUD
Ambrose/Corbin - *
------
Styles/Shane - **1/2
Jericho/Owens - **3/4
Raw Women - *
Ladders - ***
Mixed Tag - *
Rollins/HHH - ***
Orton/Wyatt - *
Goldberg/Lesnar - *1/2
Smackdown Women - 1/2*
Taker/Reigns - *
Fucks given - 0

I just don't care anymore and I've reflected back and wondered why I watched for 2 WrestleManias in a row now. The only moment I'll take away from this show is the Hardys return. Everything else left me apathetic or worse. Actually, I enjoyed Goldberg's first spear. I wish the two of them did something more in the match as they can do other moves. I think.

:lmao at whatever the Bray Wyatt mind games were supposed to be


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

So to recap:
AJ Styles v Shane McMahon- _★★★★1/4_
Kevin Owens v. Chris Jericho (c)- _★★★ 1/2_
RAW Women's Title Match- _★★_
WWE Raw Tag Team Championship Match- _★★★3/4_
Mixed Tag, Cena-Bella v. Miz-Maryse: _★_
Rollins v. HHH- _★★★ 1/4_
Randy Orton v. Bray Wyatt (C)- _1/2★_
Brock Lesnar v. Bill Goldberg (c)- _★★★★3/4_
Six-Pack Challenge for the WWE SmackDown Women's Championship- _DUD_
Roman Reigns v. Undertaker- _★★3/4_

Pre-Show:
Aries v. Neville (c): _★★★★_
Battle Royal: _DUD_
Corbin v. Ambrose: _★_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually find myself defending the brought up point of Shane outwrestling AJ, here. The whole point of the match was (according to the video package, cause that's all the info I have) AJ didn't have an opponent, so he assaulted Shane, who then inserted himself as AJ's opponent. AJ never, at any point, took Shane seriously as a threat (you can even see that in the opening moments of the match), so he consistently let his guard down and allow Shane to capitalize. His cockyness got in the way, and he underestimated his surprisingly tough opponent. Shane had the elements of surprise and focus, and they were what seemed to allow him outwrestle AJ in the early goings. Again, he took Shane's best shots and wasn't put down. And the Styles Clash kick out was protected by the semi botched (on purpose) execution, where "Shane didn't take the whole of it". At least that's how I interpreted the match


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

ATF said:


> I actually find myself defending the brought up point of Shane outwrestling AJ, here. The whole point of the match was (according to the video package, cause that's all the info I have) AJ didn't have an opponent, so he assaulted Shane, who then inserted himself as AJ's opponent. AJ never, at any point, took Shane seriously as a threat (you can even see that in the opening moments of the match), so he consistently let his guard down and allow Shane to capitalize. His cockyness got in the way, and he underestimated his surprisingly tough opponent. Shane had the elements of surprise and focus, and they were what seemed to allow him outwrestle AJ in the early goings. Again, he took Shane's best shots and wasn't put down. And the Styles Clash kick out was protected by the semi botched (on purpose) execution, where "Shane didn't take the whole of it". At least that's how I interpreted the match


There's definitely that angle in there and it makes sense to a point. The problem is that it kept happening throughout the match (one that went 20 minutes rather than say 10 which would completely change the perspective) and at a point you have to question whether the AJ Styles character is a bit simple/on the special needs spectrum or if Shane is just clearly better than him and AJ got a bit lucky with circumstances in the match. If it's the latter then that's fine in most cases because you want the babyface to look better because that's largely the point of pro wrestling, getting the babyface over. Obviously this isn't most cases though. If it's the former then it's a problem, unless the heel is a low card comedy act where the schtick is that he's a dumb ass mofo there to get laughs and make other guys look like superstars. AJ Styles is miles above that level and shouldn't be booked like that. That's not to say that it hurts him in an isolated incident like this (keep doing it then you build the bad perception, which was dangerous territory that WWE treaded with the AJ vs Ellsworth feud) so it's fine and it never stopped the match from being a really good opener, but the criticisms are still absolutely valid at the same time, as is the point you raise.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bray looked like an utter retard doing those 'mind games' and then losing the match. Randall can come out on SD and totally embarrass him with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't wait for the meme to grow and it has an endless amount of random images inside the ring.

or I hope botchamania shows it and cuts in the Orton "what's my line" botch as the projected image. That'll be fantastic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not a whole lot on the unpredictable side tonight aside from The Revival debuting but some exciting stuff and a fun show nonetheless. Angle as the new GM should 100% result in him beefing with Lesnar and facing him at Summerslam or something.

RAW Tag Titles: Hardys (c) vs. Gallows & Anderson - ***
Neville vs. Mustafa Ali - *** 1/4 (if you enjoy this then definitely watch their 205 Live match)
Rollins & Balor vs. Owens & Joe - *** 1/4 

Was on the verge of buying tickets for Extreme Rules in June until they announced the Superstar Shakeup for next week. Gotta see what happens there. My guesses would be Reigns & New Day to Smackdown and Styles &... idk to RAW.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So, I'll guess New Day, Zayn and one of the Charlotte, Nia Jax or Emma moving to Smackdown and Miz, Carmella and someone else, I don't know who moving to Raw. I don't want AJ Styles to move to Raw. I want him to stay on Smackdown. I think Nakamura is going to Smackdown too and want them on the same brand even though Nak being on the same brand as Cena would set up an inevitable big time match between those two. I still want to see Nakamura vs. Styles in a WWE ring, but at this point I wouldn't be completely shocked if Reigns-Styles swap brands too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


>


That's honestly more disturbing than any of the actual videos shown during the match.

I tell you guys, we're living in history: this is one of those legendary bad matches like a Hogan/Warrior II or the Chamber Of Horrors. I maintain it's not a complete DUD due to the very fun opening minute or so, but holy shit, what this was beyond that is truly WrestleCrap Hall Of Shame material.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

ATF said:


> I actually find myself defending the brought up point of Shane outwrestling AJ, here. The whole point of the match was (according to the video package, cause that's all the info I have) AJ didn't have an opponent, so he assaulted Shane, who then inserted himself as AJ's opponent. AJ never, at any point, took Shane seriously as a threat (you can even see that in the opening moments of the match), so he consistently let his guard down and allow Shane to capitalize. His cockyness got in the way, and he underestimated his surprisingly tough opponent. Shane had the elements of surprise and focus, and they were what seemed to allow him outwrestle AJ in the early goings. Again, he took Shane's best shots and wasn't put down. And the Styles Clash kick out was protected by the semi botched (on purpose) execution, where "Shane didn't take the whole of it". At least that's how I interpreted the match





Andre said:


> There's definitely that angle in there and it makes sense to a point. The problem is that it kept happening throughout the match (one that went 20 minutes rather than say 10 which would completely change the perspective) and at a point you have to question whether the AJ Styles character is a bit simple/on the special needs spectrum or if Shane is just clearly better than him and AJ got a bit lucky with circumstances in the match. If it's the latter then that's fine in most cases because you want the babyface to look better because that's largely the point of pro wrestling, getting the babyface over. Obviously this isn't most cases though. If it's the former then it's a problem, unless the heel is a low card comedy act where the schtick is that he's a dumb ass mofo there to get laughs and make other guys look like superstars. AJ Styles is miles above that level and shouldn't be booked like that. That's not to say that it hurts him in an isolated incident like this (keep doing it then you build the bad perception, which was dangerous territory that WWE treaded with the AJ vs Ellsworth feud) so it's fine and it never stopped the match from being a really good opener, but the criticisms are still absolutely valid at the same time, as is the point you raise.


*Yeah the only point that I'd add to that (all of which I agree with) is that if we're guessing that that might have been the story they were telling then something went wrong. It's the job of the commentators to tell them little sub stories of matches that the wrestlers themselves can only perform and not drive home themselves. But yeah, that would be fine for a few sequences but it carried on throughout the match. *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Andre said:


> There's definitely that angle in there and it makes sense to a point. The problem is that it kept happening throughout the match (one that went 20 minutes rather than say 10 which would completely change the perspective) and at a point you have to question whether the AJ Styles character is a bit simple/on the special needs spectrum or if Shane is just clearly better than him and AJ got a bit lucky with circumstances in the match. If it's the latter then that's fine in most cases because you want the babyface to look better because that's largely the point of pro wrestling, getting the babyface over. Obviously this isn't most cases though. If it's the former then it's a problem, unless the heel is a low card comedy act where the schtick is that he's a dumb ass mofo there to get laughs and make other guys look like superstars. AJ Styles is miles above that level and shouldn't be booked like that. That's not to say that it hurts him in an isolated incident like this (keep doing it then you build the bad perception, which was dangerous territory that WWE treaded with the AJ vs Ellsworth feud) so it's fine and it never stopped the match from being a really good opener, but the criticisms are still absolutely valid at the same time, as is the point you raise.





seabs said:


> *Yeah the only point that I'd add to that (all of which I agree with) is that if we're guessing that that might have been the story they were telling then something went wrong. It's the job of the commentators to tell them little sub stories of matches that the wrestlers themselves can only perform and not drive home themselves. But yeah, that would be fine for a few sequences but it carried on throughout the match. *


Yeah, I will agree that it went on for longer than it should've, and I was a little frustrated at Shane looking equal to Styles for too long right up when the match reverted to Shaneisms. But frankly, it didn't bother me too badly, as I felt like, up until very close to that point, I felt like they had done a decent job of displaying that, yes, Shane was getting the upper hand, but it's not like AJ's not better than him, it's just that he's too full of himself to focus and really go for the kill (I think that the protected and actually not too bad Styles Clash kick out was still the moment in which I started being like, "ok, protected or not, Shane is still not THAT good"... ALTHOUGH, he did kick out of a Chokeslam or Tombstone or whatever on the steps against Taker last year, so there's that). But it's a totally valid point, nonetheless.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Neville/Aries - ***1/2
Andre Battle Royal - **
Ambrose/Corbin - **
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Shane/Styles - ***
Jericho/Owens - ***1/2
Women's 4-Way - **1/2
Ladder 4-Way - ****
Cena & Nikki/Miz & Maryse - **
HHH/Rollins - ****1/4
Wyatt/Orton - 1/2*
Goldberg/Lesnar - ***
SD Women's Title - *
Taker/Reigns - ***
Liked this show


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Stellar edition of Smackdown aside from the weak ending. NAKAMURA! :mark: :mark: 

Women's Title: Naomi vs. Alexa - *** (really solid legwork and selling, but the ending was pretty wonky)
Street Fight: Ambrose vs. Corbin - *** 1/2 (pretty damn awesome sprint)

Oney Lorcan vs. Rich Swann (205 Live) - *** 1/4
Aries vs. Gallagher vs. Perkins vs. Ali (205 Live) - *** 1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit late but fuck it

Brock/Bill - Wonderful.

Crowd really came alive for it too and they would have been fully with them even if the match would have been a bit longer too tbh. The only thing I'd change is have Goldberg kick out of the F5, make a small comeback then be took down by one last F5. Not talking another 5 mins but just another 1 or 2.

Minor quibble though as I fucking enjoyed it.

Lesnar's leap :done

Great spears by Goldberg too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corbin/Ambrose was fun as fuck - ***1/2. The match that should have been on the main WM card imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock said:


> Bit late but fuck it
> 
> Brock/Bill - Wonderful.
> 
> ...


Agreed w/everything. That's the one thing that keeps this match from going into high ***+ territory for me given the ridiculous amount of content they pack into the previous minutes (one or two others would've made it even better). I really feel that Goldberg should've survived a little longer, only to irk Lesnar so much that it forces him to go into really dark places (I think that a top rope F-5 would cap this off perfectly).

Otherwise, terrific 5 minute sprint of two unstoppable juggernauts colliding each other like if the WWE video games came to life (in a good way). Not the best match of the night, but probably my favorite one.

Also hilarious that a 5 minute throwdown between two 40-50 year old's was way better than anything else on the card except for Shane/Styles, Jericho/Owens (for me) and MAYYYYYBE the Ladder match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Agreed w/everything. That's the one thing that keeps this match from going into high ***+ territory for me given the ridiculous amount of content they pack into the previous minutes (one or two others would've made it even better). I really feel that Goldberg should've survived a little longer, only to irk Lesnar so much that it forces him to go into really dark places (I think that a top rope F-5 would cap this off perfectly).
> 
> Otherwise, terrific 5 minute sprint of two unstoppable juggernauts colliding each other like if the WWE video games came to life (in a good way). Not the best match of the night, but probably my favorite one.
> 
> Also hilarious that a 5 minute throwdown between two 40-50 year old's was way better than anything else on the card except for Shane/Styles, Jericho/Owens (for me) and MAYYYYYBE the Ladder match.


Now I never personally give matches star ratings myself anymore, but I do think this is the type of match/spectacle where the ratings system doesn't really apply here fully IMO. It was a big time spectacle that it's hard to give the same match rating (let's say 3 a half stats just for the sake of conversation) that you would then give to another more 'standard' wrestling match.

Although I understand giving it a star rating for the sake of reviewing it or WM as a whole.

This match also showed just how special these two are despite all the shit they get. This match encompasses the big match spectacle moniker between two larger than life performers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock said:


> Now I never personally give matches star ratings myself anymore, but I do think this is the type of match/spectacle where the ratings system doesn't really apply here fully IMO. It was a big time spectacle that it's hard to give the same match rating (let's say 3 a half stats just for the sake of conversation) that you would then give to another more 'standard' wrestling match.
> 
> Although I understand giving it a star rating for the sake of reviewing it or WM as a whole.
> 
> This match also showed just how special these two are despite all the shit they get. This match encompasses the big match spectacle moniker between two larger than life performers.


Completely understand that. I too had some trouble figuring out if this a match that should've gotten star ratings anymore. Hell, I've completely given up on giving those to Ladder matches. I just rate them as SPOTFESTS and that's it. I think it would've been perfectly fair giving this one anything from **+ to even ****+ given how this was handled, but I can see why some wouldn't even do it anyway.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

The last WrestleMania I purchased on Blu-Ray was 31 due to the very positive reviews it received, the last WrestleMania I watched live was 28 as I was interested in a lot on the card especially with Rock/Cena. I was very disappointed with the card for last years WrestleMania and I didn't watch any of it except for the Ladder Match, the Women's Triple Threat and Undertaker/Shane (as all these matches appeared on Best Matches of 2016 DVD). However, I've pre-ordered WM33 as this show has been getting mixed reviews, some absolutely loving it and some saying it was very underwhelming. I thought going into the biggest PPV of the year, it didn't feel that special based on the announced card but it seems I might enjoy some of the matches. 

However, I decided to get it for 3 reasons; one being I'm a huge Jeff Hardy fan and I've been waiting so long for him to return to the WWE and see him have one more run after his epic singles run ended in 2009 so to see him back with Matt, who is still showing some glimpses of the BROKEN character is great to see and I hope WWE don't ruin this return. The fan pop and excitement was an amazing spectacle also. Secondly I do want to see how good the 5 minute match was between Goldberg and Lesnar as it seemed to deliver and just be a straight up _who can kick the others ass more_. Finally, I have to get it for The Undertaker and the strong hint that he has now retired... the man is an absolute legend and even if he didn't put on a classic with Reigns (I will wait to see the match when it comes out on Blu-Ray) he deserves a lot of credit for putting his body on the line one more time before hanging those famous boots up.

The WWE has me intrigued with the whole _"roster shake-up"_ they're about to do. Will it get me watching WWE consistently again for the first time in 4-5 years? I'm not sure but I'll keep an eye on the product and see where they go as when I've read results and reviews on their weekly shows nothing has actually drawn me to watch the shows again. I just haven't been interested in the current product for a long time but I've been through phases like this before so we'll see where this goes.

Side note, I've also pre-ordered some DVD's; The Best of the 2000's, Elimination Chamber/Fast Lane Double Pack, Seth Rollins DVD, WM33 Blu-Ray and some people are buying me the following for my Birthday - DDP Blu-Ray, WrestleMania Monday Blu-Ray and The Story of the Royal Rumble Blu-Ray. I can't wait!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fun RAW last night because of the Superstar Shakeup. Wyatt coming over was the biggest surprise but I feel like this pretty much guarantees he's not winning the WWE Title. Putting that House of Horrors match on Payback is a smart idea as well with Lesnar likely not being there but boy oh boy my expectations for that match are about as low as you can get, especially when they won't even be on the same show to build it. 

Love Alexa and Mickie coming over. Expect Charlotte to go to SD tonight and possibly one more too (please not Sasha though, go with Emma or something). 

Some tag teams desperately need to to go to SD tonight with the loss of Slater & Rhyno. They should get The Club or New Day, if not both. Styles reunited with Gallows & Anderson would be great and New Day has done everything they can on RAW aside from going against The Hardys.

Ambrose & Miz going over to RAW seems like an even swap for Owens definitely and another upper midcarder (Zayn?). Ambrose vs. Owens was a good main event too btw. *** 1/4 Ambrose coming over kind of annoys me though because Corbin should be IC Champion and he at least deserves a shot at something now after his win.

EDIT: Oh shit and how could I forget the BRAUN segment. :lmao Fucking hilariously great as was Elias Sampson literally drifting through the arena.

Save​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Corey Has someone ever told you that your positivity is kinda annoying?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> @Corey Has someone ever told you that your positivity is kinda annoying?


Not at all. It's... not even that overly positive frankly. It's just that 90% of people have to whine about everything the company offers. That's what annoying to me. 

What's this even in reference to though?
Save​


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Really enjoyed AJ/Zayn/Corbin triple threat. Smackdown has a great roster.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

tbh I thought Raw was pretty bad. I didn't enjoy much of anything aside from BRUAN the GOAT destroying Reigns.

I think Smackdown won this talent shakeup thing... Ambrose has gotten stale as hell and while Owens' in-ring work has seriously lacked for the last several months, he's still better than Dean. Subtracting Wyatt and Miz for Zayn and Handsome RuRu, plus adding Charlotte over Bliss, The New Day on top of Nakamura and Dillinger last week... Smackdown's in great shape. Plus they kept the face that runs the place. 

Really enjoyed the parts of Smackdown I watched... the Usos/AA match was great and the triple-threat was another great match.


With Styles, Rusev, The Usos, Nakamura on Smackdown I have literally 0 reason to watch Raw unless I want to see what BRAUN or Seth is doing. WWE has absolutely killed any interest I had in the Bray Wyatt character.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> Not at all. It's... not even that overly positive frankly. It's just that 90% of people have to whine about everything the company offers. That's what annoying to me.
> 
> What's this even in reference to though?
> Save​


No real reference or anything, it was just a mindless little joke. I have no problem w/you liking the show at all myself.

Although I will say that there is a good reason why most people whine about everything the company offers (and stands for, if this whole "JBL debacle that Vince supports" is true, which might). Still, ain't making me trying to force you or anybody else to dislike it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Be sure to watch McIntyre's NXT debut against Oney Lorcan. It only goes 5 or 6 minutes but it's a fucking FIGHT. Oney has become the king of the sub-10 minute matches and pretty much everything he does is worth watching these days. McIntyre is in the best shape of his life and I've been wondering how long it would take for him to come back to the 'E. He basically epitomizes what a bonafide superstar should look like. Definitely expect him to be NXT Champion within the next 6 months. Oh and it's disappointing they didn't bring back his Out of Time theme but his new one isn't bad either. *** 1/4

Other ratings from this week:

SD Tag Titles: Usos (c) vs. American Alpha - *** 1/4 (Crazy sprint)
U.S. Title #1 Contender's Match: Styles vs. Zayn vs. Corbin - *** 1/2

Perkins vs. Gallagher (205 Live) - *** 1/2 (Really good match but the crowd hardly cared)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Someone might like this one


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

If you buy the Slammiversary 2016 DVD off Shop Impact, you get the Bound For Glory 2015 DVD for free. Limited time offer. 

- Vic


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

My Star Ratings for those WWE Wrestlemania Weekend shows

*NXT Takeover: Orlando
(April 1, 2017)*

SAnitY (Eric Young, Nikki Cross, Alexander Wolfe & Killian Dain) vs Tye Dillinger, Ruby Riot, Roderick Strong & Kassius Ohno **1/2

Andrade "Cien" Almas vs Aleister Black **

NXT Tag Team Championship - 3 Way Elimination Match
The Authors of Pain (c) vs #DIY vs The Revival ****

NXT Women's Championship
Asuka (c) vs Ember Moon **

NXT Championship
Bobby Roode (c) vs Shinsuke Nakamura ***1/4

Overall Rating: 7.0


*WWE Wrestlemania 33
(April 2, 2017)*

Kickoff: WWE Cruiserweight Championship
Neville (c) vs Austin Aries **

Kickoff: Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal DUD

Kickoff: WWE Intercontinental Championship
Dean Ambrose (c) vs Baron Corbin **1/4

Shane McMahon vs AJ Styles ***1/4

WWE United States Championship
Chris Jericho (c) vs Kevin Owens *1/2

RAW Women's Championship - Fatal 4 Way Elimination Match
Bayley (c) vs Nia Jax vs Sasha Banks vs Charlotte Flair **1/2

RAW Tag Team Championship - Ladder Match
The Club (Karl Anderson & Luke Gallows) (c) vs Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs Sheamus & Cesaro vs The Hardy Boyz (Matt Hardy & Jeff Hardy) ***

The Miz & Maryse vs John Cena & Nikki Bella *1/2

Non-Sanctioned Match
Triple H vs Seth Rollins **1/2

WWE Championship
Bray Wyatt (c) vs Randy Orton 1/4*

WWE Universal Championship
Goldberg (c) vs Brock Lesnar *1/2

Smackdown Women's Championship
Alexa Bliss (c) vs Becky Lynch vs Mickie James vs Carmella vs Natalya vs Naomi *1/2

No Holds Barred
Roman Reigns vs The Undertaker **

Overall Rating: 4.0


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

General negativity aside how is Aries/Neville scored lower than Ambrose/Corbin?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finished watching WCW Souled Out 1998 today. Very good/excellent PPV as a whole TBH and certainly a high grade event considering it was the late 90's WCW here.

The lucha opener is still fun as fuck.










God bless La Parka.

I fucking LOVED Benoit/Raven. The use of the single chair in the match was great and Raven really bought his working boots. 

Rey/Jericho was ok, but Rey had a bad kneee which he would take time off after this to get sorted out but the match was still ok. Jericho eventually started working on the knee and the finish was clever with Mysterio attempt a top rope Frankensteiner, but Jericho countered it into mid air so that he could lock in the Liontamer. Luckly Jericho didn't drop him though as it would have been a nasty one. Solid story told and Jericho attacked Rey afterwards to properly start his heel run.

Booker/Martel was a traditional wrestling match. Not great but it wasn't a dud IMO.

Hall/Zybysko was what it was, fun enough for what it was trying to do but the whole finish with Spicoli and Dusty was lol. Larry getting loud 'Larry sucks' chants tho and this sign before the match;










NOT VERY NICE

And he's the babyface. Dusty joining the NWO was lol too TBH. Oh and more Larry sucks chants after the match, too.

Steiners and Ray Traylor/NWO tag match was meh. Main story was the dissension between Scott and Rick, but we got a nice Steiner Screwdriver to finish it off










Nash/Giant is of course mainly remembered for the botched powerbomb finish, which was very nasty. But the actual match was surprisingly decent IMO. Good spot where Nash went over the top rope and was caught by Giant;










Nash also did a leap frog and bumped for Giant. Finish is still as shocking as ever though, not talking about the hot coffee but the powerbomb nearly breaking Giant's fucking neck. I did read that Nash apparently didn't to do the spot.

The medical staff came out, but they had to work on The Giant’s worked injury of the coffee in his eyes instead of his shoot injury of being dropped on his head.

Thought Bret/Flair was great. A proper good wrestling match. Loved it when Bret pulled the straps down and so sold Flair's chops (did he do this is the WWF matches? Can't remember). Good story told in the match, although i was hoping there was a bit more 'show off' stuff from them as the story going in was who was the best wrestler. Got given decent time and had a clean finish. Top match and a good one
for Bret's debut.

Bret would take this and go onto...................yeah.

Main Event was Luger/Savage and was meh. Went about 6 or 7 minutes and wasn't anything at all. Quick wrestling in the ring, short brawl outside, and back in the ring, Luger wins with the rack. Poor main event to finish this off.

NWO comes down to attack Luger but Sting saves the day and Luger puts Nash in the rack and Sting puts Hogan in the deathlock.

Overall and damn good PPV IMO.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I finished my Ultimate Warrior - Always Believe Blu-Ray on Saturday and I re-watched Hogan/Warrior from WrestleMania VI but this time from the Fancam angle with no commentary. What can I say other than this was a really great match and a true spectacle to watch as two of the biggest stars in WWF history squared off with both the Intercontinental and World Heavyweight Championship on the line, which made the match even more significantly important. I was a huge Warrior mark when I was young, I remember I used to always get my face painted like him and although I was a huge fan of Hogan, I liked Warrior a little bit more with his look, style, music and energetic ring entrance.

This match had the fans on their feet throughout as they knew they were witnessing something rare, two huge fan favourites going at it in the main event on the biggest stage for two of the biggest titles to be crowned the real champion of the World Wrestling Federation. It was rare to see this happen but boy, did the fans love it. You could tell the fans were slightly more in favour of Hogan but Warrior had a huge amount of support also, probably 55/45 in favour of Hogan but when Warrior won the title there was a huge pop for the World title change.

The match was actually really entertaining to watch, with both men trying to outmuscle the other in the collar-and-elbow tie-up and then pandering and posing to the crowd for approval and receiving huge roars from their fanbase. The match does pick up and after Warrior gains the early advantage it's Hogan that controls the match hitting some big power moves and trying to cover after each move he hits. He then attempts a rest hold and eventually Warrior fights back and starts to execute some big powerful moves of his own and quickly goes for the cover each time, only for Hogan to kick out. You rarely saw this, both men slugging it out and both being so over with the crowd in a babyface versus babyface match. There is a slow portion in the middle of this match due to the rest holds but it does pick up again towards the end with both men going for it and the referee inadvertently getting knocked down.

This leads to Warrior going for the Running Shoulder Tackle only for Hogan to swipe him out of the way and Warrior face plants to the canvas. Hogan covers and counts himself but there's no referee to moderate the pinfall. Hogan pleads for someone to come out and checks on the downed official and Warrior then comes from behind and nails a Back Side Suplex and covers Hogan but again there's no referee to accentuate the count. Next comes some very close false finishes and eventually leads to the big finish which I believe most of us are accustomed to now... Warrior shows great strength and hoists Hogan in the air for the High Press Slam and nails the Body Splash for a two count and Hogan starts to famously _"Hulk Up"_. Warrior nails him with some blows but it does nothing, Hogan points at Warrior and hits 3 strong punches to Warrior's head and then whips him into the ropes and smashes him in the face with the Big Boot. He then goes for the big finish and jumps in the air for the Leg Drop but Warrior gets up and counters with the Body Splash on the already horizontal body of Hogan and pins him for the victory and to simultaneously hold both the Intercontinental and World Heavyweight Championships (although he'd relinquish the IC title not long after) and was the first man to do so in the WWF.

This match holds a lot of meaning to many fans, two of the biggest stars in that era of WWF going at it in a really well told match that had some really memorable moments and a great intensity courtesy of the fans in attendance who were rapturous throughout with their cheers and chants for both men. Hogan and Warrior delivered big time in this match and although it wasn't a wrestling classic in the ring, they did what they had to do very well and executed the match from start to finish really well also. Some good power moves and great storytelling throughout with both trying to use their power and strength and dominating the other big man for a while only for the other big man to make a comeback and hit some big moves of his own. I adored the facial expressions of each man as they thought they put the other man away only to see their adversary motivate themselves back to their feet and shake the effects of the work they had inflicted on them off. I was also a fan of the finish, everyone thought Hogan had it won as it's usually routine for a man to stay down from the Big Boot but no, Warrior got up at the last second to avoid the Leg Drop and hit his move for the finish. I also like the fact Hogan nearly kicked out but didn't kick out in time. It made Hogan look strong but showed Warrior was the better man on the night.

I used to have the match at ***3/4 but for nostalgia purposes and the fact I thoroughly enjoyed watching it again (this time from a different angle) I'd bump it up to ****. Terrific Main Event to close the show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^ Hogan/Warrior is one of my all time favorite Mania main events. Felt like a match that was way before its time. Love it and actually went **** 1/2 the last time I watched.

Pretty good in-ring episode of RAW, tbh. Jericho vs. Joe, Enzo & Cass vs. Gallows & Anderson, and the women's 4-way were all really solid. Pretty surprised to see Alexa get the win there. Thought for sure Nia would be next in line. Cesaro vs. Jeff Hardy (*** 1/4) and Strowman vs. Big Show II (*** 1/2) were the icing on the cake. I marked hard for the ring collapsing again, mainly for the steps going flying and the ref too. :lol Loved how they teased the superplex multiple times and then it finally happened. Didn't even expect the ring to break, tbh.Save​


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Big Show and Braun have another great match. Kinda wish Braun had covered him.

***3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2 years ago, who would've thought that, in a company with Shinsuke Nakamura, Austin Aries, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Seth Rollins, Samoa Joe and so many other supremely talented people, Braun fucking Strowman would be the most entertaining asset of the show?

That's what a combo of talent + good booking do for you. (And Strowman's not even an incredible talent or something just yet, he's still a work in progress, but I'll be damned if he's gotten quite good from what he used to be)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched that Giant/Nash match because I ain't seen it in ages. Fun stuff. Good solid BIG BEEFY BATTLE, though nothing that special overall. Heenan on commentary is :lmao as always though. The bit after Giant stands on Nash's throat and Heenan is trying to tell Tony what Nash said is hilarious :lmao. The fact everyone on commentary goes silent for about 30 seconds followed by Heenan repeating what he said is :lmao. Powerbomb finish is nasty as all hell. How the dude's neck wasn't broken is amazing. All that weight coming down on it would have shattered anyone else's. Best he wishes he'd gone with Nash's idea to gimmick the coffee pot and get smashed over the head with it for the win instead...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the No Way Out '98 ME tag match earlier. It's easy to take for granted how over Austin was at this time, but fuuuuuuck was he over. He could have stunnered Mother Teresa and they would have popped.

The match starts out crazy as he'll with weapons everywhere and everybody just beating the shit out of each other whilst the recent wonders around aimlessly not knowing what the fuck to do lol. Then it finally settles down into more of a standard tag match. Weird way around tbh as you'd think it would have turned into a brawl afterwards, but it was still a fun match despite the flat feel of Savio Vega being involved.

Although the timing was ok tbh with how at least Austin got to take his frustrations out on DX here before getting his hands on HBK at WM and it kept those two apart.

But the Raw before this one you'd think Shawn was still in the match as we didn't know he couldn't make it until the night of.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Stumbled across a folder I forgot about containing all WCW Monday Nitro from 2000 and 2001. ooooh yeah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Half way through Superbrawl 8 and I quite liked the Martel/Booker and then Booker/Saturn opener. Disco/Parka actually got some time and although it wasn't a classic, I'll never get tired of watching Parka's antics.

Goldberg/Armstrong was a perfect demonstration of what it was supposed to be and just showed how much momentum Goldberg was getting. I also loved Jericho's heel antics. Refusing to take his Cruiserweight belt off and continuing his annoying character superbly. Juve unmasked too here.

Ill watch the second half the weekend. Sting/Hogan rematch and all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I forgot Davey Smith was on this PPV, TBH. He also kept his WWF music too.

DDP/Benoit was the MOTN, without doubt. It also featured a great Diamond Cutter to finish
it off










Luger/Savage was meh as expected. HUGE 'Luger sucks' chants tho lol. No DQ match here - So the ref rang the bell as soon as the NWO interfered.

K.

Luger still won with a torture rack, somehow.

Steiners/Outsiders was also pretty dire, but hey it featured Scotty finally turning.

Main event; Fuck off Hogan/WCW/Politics and whatever else screwed this up so fucking badly. Tony said on commentary "This is the rematch to the biggest match in history".

No Tony, this is the rematch of the rematch, as the actual rematch happened the night after Starrcade on Nitro, when the match got cut off half way and it went off air.

This match once again has Hogan on at least 85% or more on offense. The first 5 or 6 minutes of this is still all Hulk. Then the NWO come in and Savage ends up pretty much costing Hogan the belt, rather than Sting just winning it clean. Hogan still wouldn't do the fucking job 2 months after Starrcade.

They could have had Savage just fend off the NWO whilst Sting pinned Hogan. But noooooooooooo.

Sting spraypaints 'WCW' on Hogan's back at the end. This should have happened at Starrcade, as now it pretty much means nothing. Sting would be a midcard champ whilst Hogan/Savage were in the main event.

Clever Hogan, eh.

Sting still got a good pop from winning the belt again, tho. But watching this whole thing back, you can clearly see how mishandled it all was in the end. Sting this I'm sure wasn't near 100% motivated at that time to fully try and capitalise on his new persona and push but it was even more difficult when you have Hogan and his mates power playing their way through the company.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Been enjoying seeing KRONIK on these Nitros. Just witnessed a stickball bat on a pole match though. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Damn pole matches 

:russo

Bro.

Still don't think i have actually watched any of them TBH tho, lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BIG VITO and his STICKBALL BAT :mark:.

Tank Abbott was in a leather jacket on a pole match once too :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched *WCW/NWO Uncencored 1998*. Some notes;

*Eddie/Booker T.*

A fine opener TBH. Nothing great, but fine for what it was. Eddie was great with all his stalling stuff tho and continuing his heel shtick. Finish was surprising, with Eddie avoiding the Harlem Hangover attempt, an taking a missile dropkick from Booker to finish him instead.

*Konnan/Juventud Guerrera.*

Oh fuck, yeah it's Konnan. Always near the top of any fan's least watched wrestlers' lists TBH, including mine. This was actually ok though, mainly because of Juve bumping around for Konnan and making it watchable with his typical underdog spirit.

*Dean Malenko/Chris Jericho.*

First of all, we get this sign in the crowd;










:heyman6

Again, match was fine. Not a classic between these two and the middle portion was meandering, but it was ok. Jericho is really getting his annoying heel mode down and continues to play with the crowd to great effect too.

Oh and Mene Gene Okerlund comes out to interview a disctraught Malenko after he lost;



> DEAN MALENKO YOU ARE O-FOR-4 IN WCW MEGA EVENTS!
> I’M GOING TO GO BACK TO STARRCADE,
> I’M GOING TO CALL YOU OUT!
> YOU DIDN’T WIN AT STARRCADE,
> ...


:aries2

Yeah but Gene; DEAN WASN'T ACTUALLY AT SOULED OUT OR SUPERBRAWL.

*Lex Luger/Scott Steiner.*

First match since Scotty turned heel and joined the NWO. Yeah it was shit. Luger is so far off base and going nowhere at this point. It would also take Steiner another year to get his character down and be over with it too. Shit.

Oh, and this was apparantly a low blow by Steiner










K.

Shit. Just shit. Oh but Rick came back and got a little revenge on Scott, which drew a decent pop.

*Diamond Dallas Page/Raven/Chris Benoit. - TRIPLE JEAPODY MATCH!!!!*

No DQ/No time limit/Falls count anywhere.

A REALLY, REALLY fun brawl with some innovative stuff for the year IMO. It went at such a high pace throughout and the some of the brutal spots felt and looked real. Esp the end with the Diamond Cutter through the table.

FINALLY. I FUCKING LOVED THIS.

*The Giant/Kevin Nash.*

JJ Dillon was out earlier on in the night saying that Giant had requested that the Powerbomb be bought back for this match. JJ agrred to it, stating "To be fair to both men"

What, even Nash? The same Nash that almost killed Giant with the move a month earlier and was 'arrested' for using the move on a Nitro? Yup. Gotta be fair to him.

As Nash is on the outside, shouting shit at Giant. A fan can be clearly heard shouting "Shut up you fat piece of crap: :lol

I can only assume that was aimed at Giant. Match was nothing. Giant wins via a lame DQ as the NWO B-Squad intefere.

A DQ? At Uncensored?

The no rules PPV?

:wtf

Nash couldn't do the job at Starrcade, he couldn't do the job at Souled Out and ended up nearly breaking Giant's neck and he couldn't do the job here, either.

I read this rather hilarious analogy online for this:

"To get out of this many jobs, the man must have a Ph.D. in political science at the University of Shawn Michaels"

:LIGHTS I'll remember that one.

*Bret Hart/Curt Hennig.*

Certainly not up with their WWF classics. Felt like a 'greatest hits' of sorts at times TBH and sort of just going through the motions. I liked the leg work by Hennig though and Bret sold it well. But nothing great and went on probably too long for what it was.

I did mark for Rude hitting the Rude Awakening though. I think he was training for a comeback and he
was moving well here, but it wasn't to be.

*Sting/Scott Hall.*

This did feel like a Nitro main event TBH. They tried to make it somewhat entertaining and Sting took a lot of shit, with Dusty getting involved. Hall bumped around and did the obvious job, but it was what it was.

*Hollywood Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage.*

Cage Match.

fpalm

fpalm

fpalm

No, really

fpalm

THIS WAS THE FUCKING MAIN EVENT. 

Shit.Shit.Shit.

At one point, the ref nonchalantly opens the cage door to let them out so they could have an outside brawl. SO WHY IS THIS SHIT IN A CAGE??!!

The Disciple comes out to interfere and help Hogan. Then Sting comes down, stares Hogan down for over a minute, only for SAVAGE TO TURN ON HIM (Of course this is fully expected with Sting) and just leave as Hogan wonders what is going on.

You and me both, Hulk.

Just fucking HORRIBLE. Shit match, even worse booking. Terrible.

------------------------

Not saying it's a bad PPV, as it still had some decent undercard stuff as always with WCW and the three way is more than worth checking out. but the main event stuff once again just killed it, and not in a good way.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Just came here to say how much I appreciate Erick Rowan's efforts on Smackdown. He made me enjoy an Orton match in 2017 :clap


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Cal's World said:


> BIG VITO and his STICKBALL BAT :mark:.
> 
> Tank Abbott was in a leather jacket on a pole match once too :lmao.


I have to see this. :lmao TANK ABBOTT


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kenny said:


> I have to see this. :lmao TANK ABBOTT


Happened at SUPERBRAWL 2000 .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Cal's World said:


> Happened at SUPERBRAWL 2000 .


Thank you CAL. :hb

2000 just keeps giving and giving. :russo


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Stan Stasiak was before my time, but he seemed like a real badass.

- Vic


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Kenny said:


> I have to see this. :lmao TANK ABBOTT


I watched this 2 or 3 years ago when wanting to watch awful WCW. The aftermath of this match...MY GOD. Please watch before clicking spoiler:



Spoiler: Aftermath



Tank takes a real knife to his opponents throat on the outside of the ring.
Whoever was in charge of creative wanted him to do something wacky. Tank comes up with the knife idea. That creative person hands him a fake knife. Tank thinks it looks too fake so he gets a real fucking knife and puts it to this guy's throat. The announcers are baffled by what the fuck is happening with Mark Madden saying "does he have a knife to his throat?" while we go to a wide shot to get the fuck away from the situation and then go to the back.



Perhaps the very worst thing I've ever seen in wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... NIGEL MCGUINNESS http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-nigel-mcguinness/


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Meh blah show. Only thing that needs to be seen is the main event. Jericho/Owens was very dull but they had a good finishing stretch. Baffling outcome. If Smackdown traded for the Champion shouldn't Owens go back to Raw now? Or did Smackdown kayfabe just con Raw into a 2-for-1 deal. Better than their Mania match at least which I definitely can't say for Neville/Aries. Their Mania match was really good but this was completely forgettable. That type of finish these days just gets heat on the promotion rather than the heel. Hardys tag was largely forgettable too. Turn is fine I suppose. Bayley/Alexa was for me the 2nd best match on the show but it was still only slightly above forgettable. I think even people who expected them to botch Bayley didn't see it ending up this bad. Best thing they can do is an angle where she's a failure, loses to anyone and everyone for a year and has to start a redemption comeback from the very bottom. Bliss has a lot of the positives Charlotte has (who had a good match with NAOMI on SD) but without the polished ring work. It'd help if she worked more like someone undersized than someone with a vicious streak. Ring post spot was cool. Rollins/Joe was totally forgettable. HoH bullshit killed the crowd for them too. Rollins has been a DUD as a babyface so far. Most of that is on the booking but he hasn't excelled either. House of Horrors stuff was what it was. If you're going to do it then be in on the joke. You can't do that shit and present as being dark and serious, it has to be campy as can be. I love how WWE being WWE had to have it come back to the arena and work a regular finish. The most I've been invested in a wrestling angle since Bayley in NXT is getting wound the fuck up by this Jinder push. I absolutely despise it. He's fucking disgusting to look at. If he's clean then good for him but that's not the image WWE should want to be projecting on TV in 2017 and it sends out a horrible message to other wrestlers. Plus I hate WWE's philosophy of just ignoring history as recent as the week before and deciding that something will be a different way from now on and everyone will just accept it. No Jinder is not now a credible act at any level of the card because the fucking Bollywood Boys help him beat 5 other geeks. If you're a total kayfabe fan then why are you watching Smackdown right now. The Champion just got embarrassed by a midcard wackjob on Raw and the Curt Hawkins of Raw has gone to a different show and become top dog. Oh and the new #1 Contender for the Tag Titles is a guy who mere weeks ago was dressing up as and getting his ass kicked by Nikki Bella. Oh yeah and the last episode ended with a new heel faction of Natalya, Tamina, Carmella and James Ellsworth standing tall. Oh and John Cena has vanished from TV with no explanation or notice. Main Event at least was very good. It would be great if they did this whole program with a babyface the crowd liked because the crowd just kill it dead with their hatred of Roman. If they did this even with someone like AJ Styles it would absolutely rule and both him and Braun would be red hot in their respective roles. And Roman was good in the role here but people don't want to see it and it's ruining everything. I would have had the match be more of a one sided destruction with less of a full on comeback for Roman. That little girls reaction to Braun kicking out from the spear made all those terrible crowd shots worth it.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Forgot to post about the PPV last night. Had super low expectations but I ended up enjoying it for the most part for a filler PPV without the Universal Champion. Some really strange booking decisions though.

Owens vs. Jericho was totally forgettable. Thought they'd try to book Owens as one of the top dogs on Smackdown but him losing to a guy that's gonna be gone in maybe days or even weeks was pretty dumb. The title has been useless since Jericho won it from Reigns (god that feels like ages ago that Roman Reigns was U.S. Champ :lol). Guessing Owens wins back Tuesday night or Jericho stays around to drop it in a 3 way at Backlash? Idk

Neville vs. Aries was good again but how much longer are they gonna put off Aries winning the belt? People are gonna stop caring about his chase considering the small reactions the CW division already gets. Treading water there.

Hardyz vs. Sheamus & Cesaro was MOTN for me. Absolutely loved it. SheaSaro came in with such intensity and a will to win that made their heel turn afterwards even more enjoyable and logical. Anyone see how high Cesaro got that on that standing leg drop? FUCK. Great package altogether. *** 3/4

I didn't pay much attention to the Women's Title match, but Alexa won so that's cool I guess.

Joe vs. Rollins was good for me. I liked Rollins throwing himself at Joe early and then the leg work actually seemed interesting to me instead of what Hunter did at Mania. Finish was fine in the sense that it will likely continue the feud and they can kill each other at Extreme Rules and I can see that shit in person. :mark: *** 1/2

House of Horrors match was indeed horrible. The pre-taped shit was indeed that, shit. Nothing horrific about the house and the rules are fucking ridiculous. Not to mention that Bray Wyaatt needs help from 3 guys (none of which are credible in the slightest right now) to win this? He has undoubtedly been the worst booked character on this roster for a very long time and it continues.

I liked the main event but I was again expecting more out of it. Good sprint of a fight but it felt a tad short for a main event. Idk whether this continues til Extreme Rules or not, but it does these motherfuckers better go all out. I want announce tables, barricades broken, etc. That steel step shot afterwards was absolutely disgusting. He could've really caved in his sternum. *** 1/4

Lesnar vs. Strowman at ER for the title will be a dream come true.



seabs said:


> *Plus I hate WWE's philosophy of just ignoring history as recent as the week before and deciding that something will be a different way from now on and everyone will just accept it. No Jinder is not now a credible act at any level of the card because the fucking Bollywood Boys help him beat 5 other geeks. If you're a total kayfabe fan then why are you watching Smackdown right now. The Champion just got embarrassed by a midcard wackjob on Raw and the Curt Hawkins of Raw has gone to a different show and become top dog. Oh and the new #1 Contender for the Tag Titles is a guy who mere weeks ago was dressing up as and getting his ass kicked by Nikki Bella. Oh yeah and the last episode ended with a new heel faction of Natalya, Tamina, Carmella and James Ellsworth standing tall. Oh and John Cena has vanished from TV with no explanation or notice. *


Absolutely agree with this. Idk what the hell happened to the Smackdown writers but it's taken an awful turn since the shakeup. I'm all for some unpredictable booking every now and then but barely any of this shit makes any sense. This will be one of the most bizarre looking PPV cards in recent memory (Backlash).


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*It's an Ambulance Match at Extreme Rules and then (probably) Lesnar/Strowman at GREAT BALLS OF FIRE (still funny).*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lesnar/Strowman will be interesting in regards to how they book it tbh. Do they make it more competitive, or will they just have Lesnar go over in typical strong fashion. I just want a fuck off fight between them tbh.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just skimmed from NXT 147 through to NXT 151. 

I always found it odd that Rollins doesn’t bring up the fact he was the first ever NXT Champ more but watching it play out, Rollins run with the title was awful and really is something best left forgotten. I’m guessing The Shield was planned in advance, so I have no idea why they put the belt on someone who they already had destined to be moved into a huge stable on the Main Roster. Rollins barely defended the title since he won it and when he did it was against the same tiny pool of talent. 

Talking about the match where he drops the title to Big E, the first ever title change for the NXT Title, it’s really weird Seth doesn’t get an entrance. Either way, I wonder what Big E will do with the title moving forwards. 

There are some other interesting things happening in this episodes, too. Graves gives us a painful vision into what he could have been if he wasn’t made of glass. 

We see the debut of Sasha Banks, without the anime hair and swagger that is synonymous with her these days and either the debut or at least very early in Emma’s career where she is working some gimmick where she dances bad (???) also weird she has basically used the same music the whole time. Her current theme is just a remix. 

Both Emma and Banks, along with seemingly every debuting or very green female wrestler, is fed to Paige to perpetuate her push and streak. I really don’t care for Paige at this point, though.

Erick Rowan makes his debut as well, I guess Rowan was given a bin man gimmick or he was just so self aware of what a failure he would be he was already moonlighting and had no time to change between jobs.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Very fun triple threat. Seth had awesome stamina on display there kept up quite a pace the vast majority of this match move to move.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah that main event was ROCKIN. The premise of it was ass fucking backwards (Miz was literally the only one asking for the IC Title :lol) but Seth put on absolute show and those twists at the end were awesome. 

If Lesnar won't be at Extreme Rules (which is how it looks unfortunately ) at least they're trying hard to build some long term stories. Joe/Rollins in some kind of gimmick match should be awesome and the probable Ambulance match between Reigns & Strowman should be a blast to see in person too.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Another awful Monday Night Raw, if anything it was even worse than last weeks. 

What is there even to talk about? I sat through an awful triple threat for a double screw finish which felt like a creative dead end. The Miz and Ambrose come from SDL just so they can feud amongst themselves, Rollins has beaten Triple H and Samoa Joe but they’re keeping this feud going anyway? Don’t they have anything else for him? And the booking of Balor is as conflicted as Roman Reigns. 

The rest of the show was pretty much filler from bell to bell, only real highlights were some of the interactions Bliss had with her division but even that segment wasn’t all that great as a whole.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Absolutely blown away by that triple threat last night. Amazing twist and turns and the match flew for 22 minutes (minus 4 min adverts). Miz looked like a top heel and Seth the face of the company. I would love to see these two go one and one although I can't see them topping this match.

****1/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I only watched the triple threat and it was an amazing, amazing match. So fun. I could have done without two run-ins 30 seconds apart for the finish, but aside from that it was still really fun. ****


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

jinder mahal with the indian version of j & j security


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...na-wwe-extreme-rules-2012-a.html#post67587961 Lesnar/Cena (Extreme Rules 2012) Review up in the columns section


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*The Womens segments on Raw and Smackdown last week were real good, matches included. Bliss' promo was :nice. 3 way was also very very good. Well done Miz. There's also a fun Metalik/Dorado vs Nese/Daivari match from 2 weeks ago on Main Event where Metalik got more over in one dark match than I've heard most crowds get for anyone during 205 Live. But he can't speak English yet so fuck that guy. *


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone got a list of good to great 5 minute or sub 5 minute matches?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone got a list of good to great 5 minute or sub 5 minute matches?


Lesnar/Goldberg. 123 Kid/Owen. Hardy/Edge are three WWE matches that immediately come to mind.

There is a thread over at PWO on best sub 10 minutes matches tho - http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32151-great-10-minute-matches/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sort of regretting buying tickets for Extreme Rules now. Lesnar won't be there, Revival is hurt, and now Strowman is hurt. I have no idea what they're gonna put on for a main event but I've got a feeling it's gonna be thrown together and shit. :no: Even without Reigns/Strowman, I could still get behind a card like this:

Ambrose/Balor/Miz/Wyatt 4-Way for the IC Title (Main Event)
Joe vs. Rollins gimmick match (Last Man Standing? Extreme Rules?)
Hardys vs. Cesaro & Sheamus Tag Titles
Aries vs. Neville CW Title gimmick match (Ladder??)
Women's Title Match

I don't even care what you do with Reigns at that point. Put him in a 6-man with Enzo & Cass for all I care. Team him up with Kalisto to face The Club. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been talk of Reigns/Miz, hasn't there? No idea if that's for ER or not tho.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> Been talk of Reigns/Miz, hasn't there? No idea if that's for ER or not tho.


Yeah the rumor mill is spouting off the rehash of Reigns/Wyatt or Reigns/Miz, which both sound pretty terrible imo.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Brock said:


> Lesnar/Goldberg. 123 Kid/Owen. Hardy/Edge are three WWE matches that immediately come to mind.
> 
> There is a thread over at PWO on best sub 10 minutes matches tho - http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32151-great-10-minute-matches/


Brock vs Big Show at Survivor Series 2002 isn't in that thread at all. I think it's a few seconds shy of 7 minutes. Great match there.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just got this pack

"20 best survivor series matches"



> 20. Team Miz (The Miz, Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger) vs. Team Morrison (John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Evan Bourne Finlay) 2009
> 
> 19. Team Orton (Randy Orton, Shelton Benjamin, William Regal, Cody Rhodes & Mark Henry) vs. Team Batista (Batista, CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, Matt Hardy & R-Truth)2008
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HOLY FUCK I'M HYPE :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864271549284704256


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So it'll be Balor or Rollins, then? As I assume they're still keeping the Reigns match off for now. Joe hasn't got much of a chance.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

New Raw. Why is Charlie wearing a curtain?

Alexa Bliss is the best heel in WWE but the fuck is a “kendo stick on a pole” match? This better not be where Bliss loses her title. 

Why was Ambrose kicking off when he got DQ’d? If I was a Champ, i’d do that all the time. Sure I lose the match but I keep my title and that is all that matters. 

So all of their top guys… plus Bray Wyatt, are going to be in this “Extreme Rules Five Way”? Could be an incredible match then, although you wonder what that means for the rest of the card. It was also cool to see/hear everyone being so over, it isn’t often that you can say that about a WWE match. No one seems to be more over than Reigns and Balor (I’ll need to watch his WWE 24 Doc) though but they all still got their pops. Personally I think Joe v Lesnar out of the five sounds like the best possible match up. It also made for a pretty good Raw too, really stacked with big matches. 

Speaking first of Balor/Reigns, it’s cool they got quite a lot of time to work with, it wasn’t quite as good as the Joe/Rollins match last week which was genuine PPV quality but this was still a solid match between arguably the two top guys in WWE in general right now. 

Interesting kayfabewise, too. What does this all mean for Balor? When all five of them were in the ring, Balor stood tall but then later that night is beaten by a wounded Reigns. They seem to be trying to play Balor’s original victory as some kind of fluke now too but they aren’t shying away from him being the first Universal Champ either. You also gotta feel for some of the top talents in the CW Division, Balor is probably smaller than some of those guys but those guys work the preshow while Balor works the Main Event of PPVs, I’d much rather see someone like Neville or Jack Gallagher in Balor’s place. 

Speaking of Rollins/Wyatt, I dunno whether it was because they wanted to make the most of their first encounter but I think this was another great free TV match featuring Rollins with another great finish involving Samoa Joe. Much better than Balor/Reigns although not on the level of his match against Joe last week. 

I know a lot of people call Rollins boring but I think he’s great, yeah he seems to “borrow” all the popular offence from the moment and has little of his own personal arsenal, he’s just so accomplished in the ring that I don’t really care.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reigns/Balor was fantastic last night. Loved the physicality and the offense from Finn. Had a big fight feel and when they eventually face off on PPV it could be really excellent. *** 3/4



Brock said:


> So it'll be Balor or Rollins, then? As I assume they're still keeping the Reigns match off for now. Joe hasn't got much of a chance.


Yeah I'm guessing Balor. The match itself is really logical when you look at the participants and what they've all accomplished lately. Joe is the only one that's kinda iffy but he should make it even better.



Pizzamorg said:


> So all of their top guys… plus Bray Wyatt, are going to be in this “Extreme Rules Five Way”? Could be an incredible match then, although you wonder what that means for the rest of the card.


The 5-way could take up the last 45 minutes on the PPV or so (like last year's Survivor Series match), so I think this might actually let the rest of the stuff on the card get more time. All of the other matches are between folks who've shown they've got great chemistry together too so I'm HYPE. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

haven't watched much lately but I don't see anyone other than Wyatt winning that match to face Lesnar simply because he's the only geek the company is willing to job out quickly to Lesnar compared to Rollins and Balor who'd probably have more competitive matches with Brock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You'd think Rollins would be more competitive against Lesnar now than he was when he was a heel tbh. But, even then I'm not so sure as this is Brock. I was thinking it might be Balor but if they just want someone to do a quick job then it could be Wyatt. Quite open atm tbh.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Anyone in that match bar Reigns who isn't winning should lose to Brock in under 5 minutes. The only people who shouldn't are Braun and Reigns and you need to save the rub of a competitive match with Brock for them, not for Seth Rollins or Finn Balor, regardless of how much they should be protecting both stars. Plus Brock needs a massacre to reassert his aura after the Goldberg feud. *


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Roman was absolutely fantastic in that match last night. His selling of the arm/shoulder was great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, Smackdown was a snoozer and there hasn't been a reason to watch 205 Live in quite a while. Here's a possible reason next week though:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864666951825608704


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The UK Championship Network special wasn't bad today. The pacing was a lot slower though so it wasn't as easy to watch as the original 2 day tournament for the belt. First two matches weren't much and don't need to be seen but the last two were good stuff. Dunne vs. Seven for the number one contendership was quality. Would've been better if Trent had tried to sell his arm though (*** 1/2).

Bate vs. Andrews was so damn slow in the first half that I was on the verge of giving up, but damn they REALLY turned it up in the last half. Lots of twists and turns and high impact counters. *** 3/4 for it, but either condense that first half into a shorter time span or just work at a quicker pace initially then we're talking higher. Best defense Bate has had. Ready for Dunne to take over at Takeover.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Dunne/Trent - ***3/4
Bate/Andrews - ****1/4

Best WWE match this year only two near it are Raw triple threat and Shane/AJ.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just watched that UK Special on the WWE Network. I’m don’t like the WWE arrogance on display here, just because WWE can’t make stars of their own doesn’t mean they can just pillage other peoples stars and call them their own. Ugh. At least they introduced Pete Dunne as PROGRESS Champion. 

In terms of specifically the show, after months of waiting to see what WWE do with their UK Brand… this show was a MASSIVE disappointment. For whatever reason the special only featured half of the available shows, with only clips from the first night to bridge the gaps, most of the matches were completely throwaway and productionwise, this might be the cheapest WWE has EVER looked. 

Speaking about specific matches, only two matches on this show mattered and thankfully they dedicated the last hour of the show to them. 

The first was Dunne v Seven to become the Number One Contender for the UK Title, a GREAT match which was needlessly held back from being a SPECIAL match. Hard hitting, well paced, well worked, Dunne knows how to sell his offence which I think is often a forgotten art and some spots worked obviously shows the confidence they have in one another but why have both Seven and Bate been asked to work injured arms against Dunne? Bate, Seven and Dunne are best mates and work up and down the country together so for those who for some reason have no idea who these guys are, I can promise you they can put on a great match if they were allowed to. Instead Bate and Seven were both handicapped and held the whole match back for it. Why?

I really do hope when Dunne and Bate clash at Takeover on Saturday they actually let Bate go all out against Dunne rather than working in some handicap again. If they do let Bate and Dunne go all out on a PPV stage I think we could have a match of the year contender on our hands.

Speaking of Tyler Bate, that main event where he defended his title against Mark Andrews was an interesting match. Not your usual WWE Main Event with a long feeling out process, a lot of mat work and focus on technique. Not really my kind of match but I appreciate the uniqueness, not to mention it worked well in accentuating the last ten or so minutes when Andrews started to try and work his match, a much faster, more high risk kind of contest that I personally much prefer.

The only real reason to pick this over say a… PROGRESS show is for the commentary I guess which has the tones of JR and Nigel Mcguinness to flow the matches along.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shouldn't surprise anyone, but Takeover: Chicago was incredible.

Strong vs. Young - *** (Fun match but I feel liek I've seen this whole 'fending off all members SAnitY' things too much now)

UK Title: Bate (c) vs. Dunne - **** 1/2 :done

NXT Women's Title: Asuka (c) vs. Riot vs. Cross - *** 1/4

NXT Title: Roode (c) vs. Itami - *** 1/4 (I may need to rewatch this one sometime. My interest was fading in and out)

NXT Tag Title Ladder Match: AOP (c) vs. DIY - **** 1/4 (My lord the storytelling, once again. Love it. A couple brutal looking spots too)


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Strong/Young - ***
Bate/Dunne - ****3/4
Womens Triple Threat - ***
Roode/Itami - ***1/2
DIY/AOP - ****1/4

One of the best WWE shows in years that featured the best match in WWE for years.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Really great show. Felt like the best one they've done in a long time without actually looking back through what the other cards were. Strong/Young was meh because Eric Young is a fucking black hole and then some. I don't know if anyone watched the Who Is Roderick Strong videos but they're fantastic and I'm now a Roderick Strong fan again. That said I still didn't really care for him in this match but I like the guy again now at least. Fuck Eric Young though seriously. Also Roddy has no friends lel. Bate/Dunne was great. Reminded me of the original Dragon Gate 6 man in ROH in terms of an introduction to a new crowd on a big stage where they go out there and make themselves stars in one match. I think I slightly preferred their original UK Title match, largely because of that crowd being 100% behind Bate but this was at worst right behind it. Crowd really made this one too actually but in a different way. Womens 3 way was meh. It definitely felt like a Nikki/Ruby TV match with Asuka thrown in to make the finish a non factor. Also made it hard to get over Asuka's new swagger. I feel like I've seen enough Ruby Riot now to say that she's not good and not have to eat crow on it later. Itami/Roode I thought was brilliant. Itami needed a big performance to remind people how good he can be and I thought he gave it here. Awesome looking slaps and kicks. It definitely at least reminded me of what I liked about him before NOAH became garbage. Also I love Nigel referencing all these old ROH matches. Loved how the match was layed out for Itami to be on top for the majority of it despite being the babyface. He needed that to allow him to come across as an ass kicker and to balance out the outcome. It also put Roode over way more than him working a dominant FIP segment would have. Instead he got his ass kicked and still found a way to come out on top with one arm. Really great example of how to have a clean finish where both the heel and the babyface get big rubs from the match. Roode's selling was brilliant. Itami needed a bigger catalyst for the leg injury than dropkicking the steps but the intention was cool and it had a nice payoff. MOTN for me but this, Bate/Dunne and the main event were all ****+ and very likely be a top 10 WWE match at the end of the year. Main event was great as well. I have to give Gargano and Ciampa big credit because I hated them at first but they turned me around and had a great run as a team. I sighed when they did the turn because they'll both be a lot better off together and WWE need good teams and them as singles guys are ten a penny right now. Plus it's what they always do, short run as a team and then split. Barely any teams becomes mainstays anymore and that's sad. But in isolation out of context it was a super angle. And that heat! I wish there was a spot in the match where you could go back and be like oh yeah that's what flipped Ciampa's switch but I don't think there ever was. Will be good to have a serious blood feud in NXT not based around a title though because I'm struggling to remember them even having a big non title gimmick match. I worry for both after the program is done though but the program itself should be hot. Match itself was great, especially so by modern Ladder Match standards. They also managed to work a match full of ladder spots that felt original which is the biggest reason why Ladder Matches suck these days. The double dive looked terrifying the way they both flipped over on the landing. I fucking squealed at Gargano getting his head taken off with the ladder shot. Gargano taking the bullet for Ciampa ruled too and made the post match hurt even more. Suplex that fucking DESTROYED that ladder made me yell out too. Finish was super too. Loved Ellering being dragged out with his fist raised. Loved AoP losing their shit at Ellering getting kicked in the face too. AoP have always been good since they debuted and had a super TV match with DIY but they were big guys with no Indy reputation so naturally everyone decided they sucked and now they've had a super series with DIY and now people think differently. Which happens all the time with big guys in WWE now. They're super though. Legit terrifying ass kickers with no reason at all to like them and an uncomfortably adorable love for their manager. If Heavy Machinery can work a longer match and do a decent job selling them I'm pumped for that series. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm usually not one to shit on the main roster when NXT puts on great shows on a regular basis, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say nothing on Backlash tonight will come close to anything from Takeover.  If I'm wrong though, awesome!


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT Takeover: Chicago
(May 20, 2017)*

Eric Young vs Roderick Strong **

WWE United Kingdom Championship
Tyler Bate (c) vs Pete Dunne ****

NXT Women's Championship
Asuka (c) vs Ruby Riot vs Nikki Cross **

NXT Championship
Bobby Roode (c) vs Hideo Itami ***

NXT Tag Team Championship - Ladder Match
The Authors of Pain (Akam & Rezar) (c) vs #DIY (Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa) ***1/4

Overall Rating; 7.5


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Backlash

Nakamura/Ziggler - *3/4
Breezango/Usos - **1/4
Zayn/Corbin - **3/4
Womens Tag - *
Styles/Owens - ***
Harper/Rowan - **
Orton/Jinder - DUD

Worst PPV since Unforgiven 2007 for me. Whoever put togetger Nakamura/Ziggler should be fired. Finally the fact that a guy who is yet to have a decent match in his career is WWE Champion whilst the guys in NXT are putting on shows the quality of last night really makes me sick.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jinder fucking Mahal is the WWE Champion. :lmao Amazing. Was on my way to saying this was gonna be easily the most forgettable PPV in a long time, but at least I'll never forget it because of that. Still, everything felt really stretched out when there wasn't much to sink your teeth into on the card.

Nakamura/Ziggler - ** 3/4 (Don't really think there was much chemistry there and it fell flat in the late stages. The crowd just basically started chanting when nothing was happening because they like Nakamura.  The spitting thing felt really out of place and didn't get a reaction. Ziggler laying on the ropes forever waiting for the finish was weird too)

Usos/Breezango - N/R (What... was this? :lol I guess this was entertaining to an extent and definitely different but I have no idea if it was fitting for PPV. Got fun down the stretch when they actually went at it)

Corbin/Zayn - *** (This wasn't bad but felt way too fucking long and dragged out. I should be way more happy with Zayn winning but I've been down this road and don't see it going anywhere. Wouldn't be surprised if Corbin wins MITB next month so this win literally means nothing for Sami. We'll see. Just wish there was more consistency)

Didn't even watch the 6-woman tag. Becky has become an afterthought.

Styles/Owens - *** 3/4 (I actually thought this was really good and it was on the verge of being fantastic once the leg story came into play. I don't even mind the finish because it's creative, protects AJ, and continues getting real heat on Owens. MOTN by a wide margin)

Harper/Rowan - ** (Why was this on PPV? Why not give them a stipulation if you're putting them on PPV?)

Orton/Mahal - *** (Ok hear me out, this was surreal as fuck and Orton looked really motivated to start. The crowd was hot for it and in the moment I can honestly say I had fun with it. A bonus 1/4* for those CRAZY backdrops Orton was giving people on the announce table. Fuck I thought he killed one of them. :lol The match was standard but at least there was a story and a focal point for Jinder. His bumping was pretty damn good here too. It was kinda slow at times and the fucking Singh brothers should've DEFINITELY been thrown out once they pulled Jinder out of the ring, but whatever. It was fun for the night)

Without a doubt Smackdown's weakest offering since the brand split. I really feel like they need more star power right now.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Orton rag dolling the Bollywood Boys was incredible. 

Also I think Fashion Police vs. Usos was my MOTN. Which isn't me knocking any other matches, it was just awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

This is the first PPV of the year where I only want to watch one match (Styles/Owens).


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

I think I'm the only one here who liked Backlash.

Ziggler/Nakamuara: ***1/2 What I liked about this was that it wasn't a match where both guys went all out. It was basically an introduction match, a showcase of Nakamura's skill-set per say. I liked the slower pace as it allowed anticipation to be built up to Nakamura's next move. And when he was on the offensive, he didn't work at a high pace, which is the way he should be doing it. Again, it's an introduction match. You want the audience and viewers at home who aren't familiar with you to really grasp and take in what's happening. Allowing the big moves he hits to have some time between them is how you help an audience get introduced to a wrestler. Both of these men are great in-ring workers. If they wanted to have a match of the year candidate, they very easily could have. But that wasn't their intention, nor should it have been. 

Breezango/Usos: N/A I was having streaming issues during this match unfortunately and only got to see glimpses here and there. So I can't give a rating for it.

Zayn/Corbin: ****1/4 I have to give big props to the selling job by Sami Zayn in this. He was fantastic in this match and really made it a lot better than it had any business being. Corbin was good as well, so it's nice to see him at least making progress as far as in-ring performing is concerned. It had a clear story that was told very well, a lot of great in-ring action and had a balanced pace. In my opinion this was the match of the night.

Six-Women tag: *** I was surprised at how much time they gave this thing and how seriously they took it. And I think they did pretty damn well with it. I do have to question having the heels win this, as they dominated Charlotte, Becky and Naomi in the build up to the match. Otherwise though, I thought it was a pretty good match.

AJ/Owens: ***1/4 I had a feeling this match wasn't going to be what people were hyping it up to be, and I wasn't surprised when that ended up being the case (at least for me anyways). It was still a pretty good match all things considered, but it had some lackluster moments, including a few obvious set-up spots. I did really like the finish though.

Harper/Rowan: *1/4 My big problem with this match is that there isn't really any actual story to it. In fact despite me watching Smackdown actively, I'm not really sure why these two are feuding to begin with. So to me it just felt like a match where two guys were hitting moves on each other and...yeah, that's pretty much it. It had uneven pacing too which never helps. 

Jinder/Orton: ***3/4 I wasn't expecting this match to be anything good, but I was actually enjoying it a lot. Both guys played their roles extremely well and I thought the storytelling was very good by both men. I was pleasantly surprised. There was some bad moments though and the selling could have been better at times. My biggest complaint was how much time Orton spent on the Indian J&J's. I don't think it made any sense for him to continue the beatdown on them after he ragdolled them both over the announcer tables. Also, and someone fact check me on this, I'm pretty sure the two Indian midgets pulling Jinder out of the ring when Orton was going for a pin attempt should have resulted in a DQ due to interference.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching all the build and the matches from the '89 Flair/Steamboat trilogy.

After going back and re-watching them, i'd rank them thus;

1. WrestleWar
2. Clash of the Champions
3. Chi Town Rumble

I'd also like to give a more than honorable mention to their Landover match too. I loved it and the last 10 minutes esp of that match is fantastic.

Now, here's what might be a slightly controversial opinion

:cenaooh

I still personally prefer Windham/Flair from BOTB. Not taking anything away from any of the Flair/Steamer matches as one could argue they're all 5 stars too and I loved every second of them, I just have a love for that Windham match. Maybe it's time to watch that trilogy again soon too..........


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Owens has been boring as hell since his summer feud with Sami last year that AJ/KO not living up to standards isn't all the surprising. I can only watch so many 3-5 minute headlocks by KO.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I'm actually really slaty about Jinder winning. I'll probably go more in depth in on why it's so horrible in my Torch column if anyone reads them but I guess it's how people feel about the Roman Reigns push except Reigns is good and over in some form or another. This Jinder push basically encapsulates everything I hate about WWE's current philosophy. Take a guy who looks a certain way, has no talent, isn't over, has done nothing to warrant any sort of a push, act like everything in the past doesn't matter and then push him right to the very top of the card because Vince woke up one morning and decided that guy was his new shiny toy. Match was watchable because Randy really had his working boots on but Mahal brought absolutely nothing to the table. That face when he fucking massacred The Bollywood Boys on them back drops. I think I said when I first saw them on CWC that they were gonna get hurt if they were ever working big guys on the main roster and well that didn't take long. Shoulder selling gave Roode a fair run for his money but in a much weaker match obviously. I honestly think that anyone who looks like an Indian could cut the promo Jinder cut earlier in the same show and get the same heat. I mean he got the what treatment so it wasn't even cheap heat. He can walk to the ring better than Khali but that's honest to god the only area he trumps him in. Harper/Rowan was bad. The fuck was the end with the camera panning to the mask and then nothing happening with it. People should watch Rowan on the pre-show to see why Renee Young is fantastic at her job and why Booker T is equally not fantastic at his. Owens/AJ I liked way more than I anticipated. I'm not a super big AJ fan like others but he's had very good matches with Dean Ambrose and Kevin Owens now and that can't be taken lightly. Leg work made the match. Owens had all his usual flaws but limb work over everything. Finish was really great once you get past the fact they couldn't do a clean finish. And in fact it was better than a clean finish either way. Womens match sucked. Natalya/Tamina/Carmella running one half of any possible pairing will be absolute death for SD's women's division. I mean the only women who aren't horrible are Becky and Charlotte and they can't even face each other at the moment. Natalya running the ropes is Eva Marie bad and I'm not even exaggerating. Vince probably thinks Ellsworth is now a great heel by the same token he seems to think Jinder is. Zayn/Corbin was good. Zayn can make a match with anyone good when he's got his selling hat on. Corbin was a fine base but I kinda wanted more from him here. He feels like a dead project at the moment losing to Ambrose at Mania and now perennial jobber Sami Zayn. He'll beat him on SD in the next few weeks and everyone will be back on neutral ground. Usos/Breezango was a hell of a lot of fun in an isolated context. I'll get out the obligatory this match being a Tag Title match on a PPV is horrific and absolutely buries the SD Tag Division out of the way first so I can end on how fun this was. This is the type of match you open a house show with. JBL prolly re-babyfaced himself on commentary in this match too. "The last time that happened to me I had to pay for it" made me howl. I bet you anything if you do a top 10 SD exclusive PPV matches at the end of the year this will be in it. Smackdown's roster fucking sucks. You've got a year of Usos/New Day, Charlotte trying to have passable matches with horrible workers and Jinder fucking Mahal running wild on top. Nakamura/Ziggler was so naively booked. I loved the way they saved Nakamura's debut for a big show and how they've presented him as a genuine special attraction so far but this undid everything. First on a show that ended with Jinder Mahal beating Randy Orton for the World Title this should have main evented and it should have been Nakamura fucking obliterating Dolph in no more than 4 minutes taking no offence at all. Or if you want to debut Nakamura in the memorable back and forth match you do what NXT did with Bate/Dunne and you pair him with a guy like AJ who has credibility as THE guy on the show and can have a legit MOTYC and you can present Nakamura as something special and get over in the same way Bate/Dunne did. But working most of a match underneath Dolph Freakin Ziggler killed all his aura and made him look like a midcard geek with a cool entrance. Or in other words another Adam Rose because if you only watch Raw and Smackdown how do you see a difference? Rating in an isolated context the match was awful anyway and Nakamura working midcard matches against guys like Dolph Ziggler will kill him because he's really not that good at them.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Didn't even realize Money in the Bank was in St. Louis. Crowd should be into the Orton/Jinder rematch big time.

Loaded MITB match. I like how they incorporated all 3 feuds into it. Corbin is my pick.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/867191810849886209


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Where is Rusev :mj2


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

25 years ago today:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:done

One of my most favourite ever matches. When it turned up in full was a glorious day. It's of course remembered for being one of, if not the, greatest crowds ever, but the actual match matches the crowd in how great it is.

I might just give it a watch now.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Kenny said:


> Where is Rusev :mj2


that dude better have a year long title reign and undefeated streak on Smackdown if they can put the fucking title on Jinder Mahal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer (Mid South 11/11/1985)_

When you grow up watching WWF Hacksaw and then years later get introduced to this :faint:

Duggan telling the ref to "Get the fuck away from me" :lol

Duggan shouting "Come on then you son of a bitch" :done

This is a fucking HATE brawl. One of the best of its kind.

There's a woman in the crowd just fucking screaming at them throughout lol too.

She screams to Buzz at one point "Get the fuck back in the ring". Then at the end when Sawyer is being helped to the back, I think the same woman shouts "Duggan beat the shit out of him".

:done


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Went back and revisited Extreme Rules from last year in prep for the PPV next week.

*Tornado Match:* The Usos vs. Gallows & Anderson - *** 3/4*

Good choice for an opener. Solid match but even with it not going that long it still felt like it had a bit too much downtime. This may have been the most boos I can ever remember the Usos getting on PPV.

*Intercontinental Title Fatal 4-Way Match:* The Miz (c) vs. Cesaro vs. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn - ******

Great stuff. It started with a bang but the pacing was a bit slow in the first several minutes, or else I'd rate this even higher. Once they got into that groove though, god damn. Awesome sequences and nearfalls at every turn. Love the chickenshit finish too. Camera barely even catches it!

*WWE Championship Extreme Rules Match:* Roman Reigns (c) vs. AJ Styles - ***** 1/2*

Still an amazing, amazing match. The atmosphere in the building was fucking INCREDIBLE. Roman using his power on AJ made for some fucking wild moments. Looking back on this, it really feels like the match where they made AJ "pay his dues" and put Roman over before getting his big push a few months later. I loved it when he finally snapped and laid out everyone with the chair. Finish is still gut-wrenching to watch. Personal bias aside, I really think this was the best main roster match of the year. What a spectacle... and Rollins returning afterwards. :mark: Still lose my mind watching it.

Would be totally fine with people calling this a 2 match show, but holy hell those 2 matches are wonderful. Rest of the show is decent but easily forgettable. Still can't get over how long they had Ambrose and Jericho go at it in that cage...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

fuck Dolph Ziggler


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> fuck Dolph Ziggler


Not that I need a reason to agree with that statement, but is this a result of something he's just done?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Barry Windham vs Terry Funk (Puerto Rico 09/19/1986)_

This started out with Barry mocking Terry and wearing his hat lol. Some classic Funk stooging to start things off before it quickly transitioned into a brawl. Both traded Piledrivers on the outside.

Funk then goes mad and throws a chair into the ring at Windham.










:done

Baddass Barry.

There's a fucking great spot not long after this when Windham plants a chair over Funk's head and just starts punching him as Funk is also caught in the ropes. Match involves some classic Funk selling too of course.

A wild match as you would expect.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*That's the sort of match that will make you think Funk was the greatest ever. Watch Funk/Martel from Puerto Rico, it's even better. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Every Funk match makes you think that. Even the bad ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup, got the Martel match to watch next as Funk cut a promo on the match at the end of the Windham match in typical Funk fashion.

--------

What's the best Race/Flair match btw?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> What's the best Race/Flair match btw?


No idea. Any match I've seen between them was meh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Terry Funk vs Rick Martel (Puerto Rico 09/20/1986)_

Ref seems to look like a slightly butch woman here tbh lol.

Match starts out with Funk wildly swinging at Martel, to the point where Rick just punches Funk out the ring and then decides in a fit of rage, to drop the elbow on Funk's hat.

Rick continues to punch at Funk and I always love Funk's stagger selling and stooging on the outside. Funk eventually takes over but loses his balance on the top turnbuckle and ends up crotch first on the ropes lol.

A fan throws a chair into the outside ring area towards Funk. So Terry just flings it right back into the crowd and then picks up another chair and recklessly throws that one in the crowd too for good measure.

Back in the ring and they briefly lock up before Funk gets caught over the ropes and Martel pulls his shorts down to expose most of Terry's backside. Martel puts Funk in a headlock and cranks it up and spins Terry around in it.

Martel is eventually thrown out the ring and Funk Piledrives Martel onto the outside grass area. He continues to just stomp at Rick and throws him into some chairs. Back in the ring and Funk continues to control the match. He starts choking Martel with something but hides it with his arm as he's got Rick in a headlock.

Martel then turns the tables and reverses this on Funk. Both back on the outside and Martel plants a chair over Funk's head and Piledrives him whilst he's wearing it.

Funk wins not long after though as he sunset flips back into the ring and pins Martel, but Funk in classic heel mode uses his feet on the ropes as leverage.

It's great watching this and the Windham matches back to back and I love seeing all of Funk's antics in both of these bouts too. Thing about these matches is there's always something going on, something to notice and keep your attention. Usually it's the Funker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Double post worthy 

Forgot to mention, in that Funk/Martel match, just before Funk starts throwing chairs into the crowd, he does a funny as fuck little jig as he's also selling on the outside, as he's also seemingly stuffing his pants with something










:bosque


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Not that I need a reason to agree with that statement, but is this a result of something he's just done?


I just saw that he was going to be in the ladder match a few posts above and felt the need to reiterate.


I remember loving Race/Flair 8/31/83


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think that's the one on Flair's DVD. I must have glossed over it tbh as i don't think I've seen any Race/Flair stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two quality matches on RAW tonight. Didn't really care for Joe/Balor/Wyatt at all though. Barely ever hit a groove and the finish kinda sucked.

Ambrose & The Hardys vs. Miz, Sheamus, & Cesaro - *** 1/4 (Ambrose worked his ass off here)
Reigns vs. Rollins - *** 3/4 (Great main event and I still feel like we haven't seen the best possible match these two can have together)

Absurdly hyped for the 5-way this weekend. :mark: That match is essentially worth the price of my ticket by itself at this point and the rest is just a bonus. Cage match for the Tag Titles and submission match for the CW Title are not my ideal stipulations (was praying to the gods for a Ladder match in either of them but didn't think we'd get one with MITB being a few weeks away), but hey if they're good it'll just be icing on the cake. No expectations at all for Alexa/Bayley. That 'this is your life' segment was awful. :lol


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

Have fun out there, Corey.

I'm gonna give this ppv a miss and watch Neville/Aries later unspoiled and the 5-way pending good reviews.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pretty cool that this is finally happening. Don't know how good the match will be based on who's actually in it and the element being totally new (Sasha would kill herself in this for our pleasure and it feels like it's right up Asuka's alley as well, not to mention Nikki would give it some more star power and crowd reaction) but I'm feeling like Carmella comes out on top with the help of Ellsworth. Two MITBs, Orton/Jinder in Randy's hometown, and Usos/New Day on top of it. Got a pretty stacked card imo. Damn shame they have literally nothing for Harper or Rusev though... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869727101884272641


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnetwork.com/full-content-wwe-kurt-angle-the-essential-collection-dvd/136304/

this is what I texted to him

your DVD looks good for your WWE career. sucks not having a Benoit match sux and id have replaced the 2000 taker match with the 2006 taker match. but other than that a very solid set. 
i wish WWE would have gotten tna library


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Funk/Foley from the 4th May '98 Raw is bloody good fun. Austin is on commentary too and is a blast.

Just a big brawl all over the place. Vince is out at the end and his dancing is :lol Even Austin has trouble controlling his laughter at it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finished watching Slamboree '98. The main event was Sting/Giant vs Hall/Nash.

Sting is a WCW babyface teaming with an NWO heel against two NWO tweeners. Nash is about to powerbomb Giant when Dusty Rhodes gets on the apron to distract the ref. Hall turns on Nash by hitting him with the tag belt and Sting and The Giant win the tag titles. So now Hall and Nash are on opposite sides lol. Plus a WCW guy and an NWO guy are tag champs.

I mean, what a mess.

I have read that Hall's turn was a political power play by Hogan to split them up in storyline and so it helped his own power backstage.

More Hulk bullshit then.

But Benoit/Finlay was great and probably had the most crowd heat tbh. The Cruiserweight battle royale was super purely for Jericho's introductions and the Malenko reveal.

Savage/Bret was ok. Bret going after the bad knee was good but the brawling could have been better given it was essentially a hate match.

Again though, another stupid finish with Liz running into the ring and Hogan taking Savage out for Bret to win.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Me and Cody got talking about BRADSHAW last night in the chatbox after I recommended one of his matches with Road Dogg in 96. I ended up adding a bunch of Bradshaw matches to my watchlist on the wwe network, then watched em all today:

Bradshaw Vs Vader - No Holds Barred Falls Count Anywhere - Breakdown 1998

ITS SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, NOT THE FATTEST!

Not often we have someone going against Vader who can believable beat the fuck out of the man from the rocky mountains, but damn, Bradshaw beating down Vader in the corner looks about as real as it gets lol.

Fans calling Vader a FAT ASS :lmao. Pretty sure someone yelled "YOU TEXAS FUCK" at Bradshaw at the beginning of the match too .

Bradshaw punching the ringpost... TWICE :lmao.

MASSIVE splash from the corner by Vader, rather than a Vader Bomb. Instead of covering, he goes for a Vader Bomb too! Bradshaw is DEAD! No! He kicks out!!!

CLOTHESLINE FROM MOTHERFUCKING HELL and Vader kicks out!!!

A second one nearly kills Vader, but he gets up anyway and Bradshaw hits a strange neckbreaker for the win lol.

A great BIG BEEFY BATTLE as you would expect :mark:. Always been a big fan of this one.


Bradshaw Vs Vader - Raw 06/06/1998

Don't remember this one... I think lol. Happens months before their Breakdown match.

They show clips of Bradshaw in his first round Brawl For All match beating the shit out of... someone lol. So, Vader WAS around for the BFA. Shame he wasn't in it .

BIG BEEFY BATTLE :mark:. Both men trade blows and somehow don't kill each other in the process lol.

Sadly they don't get a full match as Kane and Mankind show up to beat the fuck out of both men. TOMBSTONE TO VADER. For the few minutes they got, it was fun as hell. Glad they got that PPV match .


Bradshaw Vs Bubba Ray Dudley - Smackdown 09/09/1999

The Dudleys were put against the APA from the get go when they came to WWE to see how they'd handle themselves, especially after what happened with the Public Enemy. What happened is that both teams beat the shit out of each other and had fun doing it, earning each other's respect .

Just like what I was expecting; both men beat the shit out of each other . Bradshaw's "tattoo" almost worn away after only a couple of minutes :lmao.

Bradshaw decks Bubba with the Clothesline from Hell, and it ends up turning into an all out brawl with Devon and Faarooq getting involved too. 


Bradshaw Vs Road Dogg - Insurrextion 2000

Love their 1996 matches, wonder how good this is. Don't remember a damn thing, but I probably liked it last time I saw it lol.

JR saying that Tori belongs on Page 3 :lmao. I agree.

This is wild and crazy from the get go with Bradshaw starting things off hot, Tori getting involved, Bradshaw and Faarooq stalking Tori, Faarooq attacking Road Dogg in front of the refee and getting sent to the back instead of causing a DQ .

Always laugh when I watch a Road Dogg shoot and he talks about being terrified of getting in the ring with the APA cos they beat the shit out of him. They beat the shit out of EVERYONE, not just you Road Dogg!!!

Things might slow down, but the shots don't get any lighter. Bradshaw seems to LOVE booting Road Dogg in the face.

Bradshaw hits a double leg takedown at one point, but he's so powerful it looks more like a spear :lmao.

Road Dogg dies. He always took the Clothesline from Hell awesomely. Tori prevents a cover, and it gives Road Dogg time to revover and land his PUMP HANDLE DROP for the win!!! Another good match between these two!


Bradshaw Vs Jeff Jarrett - Raw 27/04/98

Oh hey, this show took place on my birthday! Also think its the show where DX invaded WCW.

JJ still with his 1995 gimmick in WWF 1998 :lmao. He gets ABSOLUTELY NO REACTION :lmao.

Jarrett tries to strut after delivering a dropkick. Bradshaw instead grabs his head and smashes it into the turnbuckle .

Bradshaw's facial hair is magnificent btw.

Kai-En-Tai show up and beat down Bradshaw :lmao. Mr Yamaguichi or whatever his name was is in the ring with a mask. First hit from Taka who comes to make a save and his mask flies off :lmao.

Well this was a disappointment.


Bradshaw Vs A-Train - Smackdown 20/11/03

This gonna be good. I hope :mark:. BIG BEEFY BATTLE potentially incoming :mark:.

BROCK LESNAR has been motivating his SVS team after they lost at the PPV, so A-TRAIN is out to prove his worth to THE BEAST.

I wonder if A-Train was Heyman's little nod to D-Von? A little inside joke maybe?

Loved Bradshaw's back suplex. Always looked impressive. His swinging neckbreaker was cool as fuck too.

DERAILER ON THE FLOOR~!

Ref gets to an 8 count, but dammit A-Train wants to PIN Bradshaw. Brock isn't gonna be impressed with a countout.

The DERAILER fucked Bradshaw up and he even tries to resort to cheating to beat A-Train and get the hell out of this match. He almost lands a Clothesline too, but instead runs right into the Bicycle kick and this one is over!!! Great stuff!


Bradshaw Vs Road Dogg & Billy Gunn - Bunkhouse Brawl - Raw 10/11/97

This was supposed to be a tag, but I assume Barry Windham was taken out beforehand.

This might be a handicap match, but Bradshaw is NOT on the wrong end of it lol. He throws power into Billy's eyes at the start so he can separate the team and beat the shit out of them one at a time .

Remember that shitty wooden table they covered up for the ring bell table? Well, pretty sure this was the last time we saw it since Bradshaw broke it over Billy's head. Then Road Dogg gets a chair to the skull.

DDT ON A STEEL CHAIR. BOTH MEN COVER BRADSHAW FOR THE 3 COUNT, BUT BRADSHAW GETS BACK UP AND CHASES THEM TO THE BACK! Short, but sweet!


Bradshaw Vs Barry Windham - Raw 23/03/98

Its the NWA Invasion!!! RnR Express show up at ringside too which pisses off Cornette who is managing Windham.

New Blackjack Vs New Blackjack!

These two of course beat the hell out of each other, and holy fuck a particular shot from Bradshaw nearly knocks out Barry.

Holy shit, Windham countered a Clothesline with a DDT. In a way I don't think I have EVER seen!!!

The RnR Express distract Cornette and Windham, allowing Bradshaw to roll him up for the win. Lol, the "Midnight Express" show up to help Barry and Jim. Bob and Bart :lmao.


Bradshaw Vs A-Train - Smackdown 13/11/2003

Oh hey its a week before the other A-Train match. Gotta love the search results from the WWE Network...

This is also the week before the big SVS tag match too where both men would be on opposite teams.

A-Train almost doing some VADER punches in the corner! Bradshaw fires back, and clubs A-Train hard in the back which just seems to piss him off, so Bradshaw boots him in the face to prevent getting killed . And it works for about 20 seconds before A-Train comes back himself and murders Bradshaw with a Clothesline Worthy Of Being From Hell!

"You like that, don't you? Two guys BANGING AROUND?" :lmao I wonder what Tazz was trying to say about Cole .

Another great SLUGFEST here, and holy shit Bradshaw even hits a DROPKICK lol!

Nice swerve there with A-Train going for a Bicycle Kick, missing and looking to turn into a Clothesline but he ducks and lands the DERAILER!!! Bradshaw kicks out though, and another Bicycle Kick is dodged and followed up successfully with the Clothesline From Hell!!!


Bradshaw Vs William Regal - Raw 03/12/01

These two have a great match on SD in 06 in the UK, so will be cool to see what they can do in 2001.

Regal is getting the shit kicked out of him, so Regal gets the brass knucks out and decks Bradshaw TWICE for the win. Well. I was hoping we'd get a full match here, not a 30 second segment .


Bradshaw Vs Kurt Angle - Raw 07/05/2001

First suplex of the match comes from BRADSHAW of all people! Angle tries to make it a wrestling match as quickly as possible, but gets pummelled a few times before landing the awesome overhead Belly to Belly and then dropkicks the knee to gain full control of the match.

A MOONSAULT attempt doesn't go well for the Olympian, but after taking a few power moves from Bradshaw he quickly comes back with the Ankle Lock! Bradshaw gets to the ropes, then Benoit's music hits and shows up on the titan tron. Benoit is trying to pay for his meal at WWF New York with Angle's gold medals :lmao.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

Angle rolls to the outside and runs away to try and get back his medals lol. Could have been much more if the Benoit stuff didn't happen.


Bradshaw Vs Bob Holly - Smackdown 30/09/2004

JBL wants to send a message to THE UNDERTAKER tonight. By beating up Bob Holly.

Wonder how these two would have gotten along if one of them only just came into the company in 2004. Both are known for bullying and testing new guys lol.

They might have got into the WWF only within a couple of years of each other, but they are wrestling this match like they are trying to test each other lol. BRAWLING~!

I wonder how JBL would do in a REAL fight. Just because his work punches are those big, lumbering swings that looks great in a wrestling match, but would likely be ducked and dodged in a legit fight .

JBL's taunt before he tries a POWERBOMB is awesome. The one where he pretends he has a cigar and puts it out on his opponents back.

ALABAMA SLAM~! Commercial break and we come back to Bob being busted open. He got DECKED with the steel steps and... the match continues lol. BOOT TO THE FACE. Holly is out of it so the referee calls for the bell. Now JBL can send that message to Taker!

The match might be over, but JBL isn't anywhere near done with Bobby Holly! Another shot with the steel steps, then he punches and kicks the shit out of Bob's open wound. CHAIR SHOT~! CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

JBL cuts a promo on the Dead Man, but is interrupted by Undertaker on the tron, who shows off Orlando Jordan who has been crucified on his symbol!!!


Bradshaw Vs Bob Holly - Smackdown 07/10/2004

REMATCH!!!

Holly got himself a score to settle, but how healthy is the champion just days after his Last Ride match against The Undertaker?

Bradshaw gets the jump on Holly, but it isn't long before Holly starts going after a wound in the head JBL got from the PPV. JBL is busted open again! JBL returns the favour by trying to open up Bob's wound from last week, but Holly is too pissed off to let that happen.

BOOT TO THE HEAD. But even that isn't enough to slow down the momentum of BOBBY HOLLY.

ORLANDO JORDAN IS BACK~! Can he go already?

DROPKICK~! Holly did always have a good dropkick. He was a very underrated wrestler in general though imo. He was a great mid-card guy who could have a solid match with just about anybody.

Clothesline from Hell ducked, and Holly lands the ALABAMALA SLAMA JAMMA~!

JBL fucks off and gets counted out, while Jordan holds Holly's legs to prevent him from going after the champ. Guess they'd better have a third match to finally settle things!!!


Bradshaw Vs Bob Holly - Smackdown 14/10/2004

We're in the UK for this show, and the title is on the line too! Its HARDCORE RULES as well, guaranteeing us a winner!

A BOBBY'S HELMET. Because ENGLAND.

The referee struggles to make a count cos he didn't see the random football that came out of a trash can, and he was right on top of it when he dove down to count :lmao.

MONITOR TO THE SKULL~! Bob could have really used that BOBBY HELMET there. Also, BOBBY HELMET sounds like slang for a condom.

BACKDROP ONTO THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~! Surprisingly it doesn't break, even under JIGGLY BELLY LAYFIELD'S weight!

TRASH CAN SHOTS~!

Holly grabs the ring steps, turns around and gets smashed in the face with a steel chair. JBL retains the belt!

A little short tbh. Not the best way to end this little TV feud they had going tbh. Weakest of their 3 matches, but still good fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Great American Bash 1998.

Benoit/Booker was excellent and the best of their series IMO. Booker actually had a good night as he won here and went onto have another excellent match with Finlay. Chavo/Eddie also had a good match too. Kanyon/Saturn seemed to go on forever TBH.

Semi main event was Piper/Savage vs Bret/Hogan. This sign in the crowd, which i'm sure didn't please Bischoff lol, at least demonstrated that one fan had an idea










Bret ended up making Savage submit in the Sharpshooter. Then Savage/piper had a quick impromptu match, with the highlight being the bump Little Naitch took;










Piper ended up pinning Savage. So Randy got shafted tonight. I think he had a legit injury, i dunno, but losing twice in quick succession seemed odd.

Main event was Sting/Giant for the TAG TITLES. Giant came to the ring smoking a cigarette. Match was what it was. Short, with mostly Sting on offense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the latest Table for 3, Cornette admitted to sending people to Nitro to hold up negatives signs lol. Might have been Cornette's doing .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:cornette

Funny how the camera zoomed in on it too lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Vader/Bradshaw.

"I came here to fight. It's survival of the fittest, not fattest".

"I didn't come here to wrestle that fat Bastard"

:cenaooh

A fan so shouted at Vader "Hit him with your fat ass" :lmao

Stiff as fuck battle of two big, bruising fuckers here. Bradshaw nearly takes Vader's head off in the corner at the start with a stiff ass clothesline. There's certainly some stiff shots in this one. I felt the Clothesline from hell from home lol.

Bradshaw also shouted at Vader "Get up you Bastard".

As Cal said; Big beefy battle.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This cage match was incredibly stupid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And people wonder why nobody cares to watch this crap, anymore. RAW trying to match SD in the terrible ppv battle.

Imagine a Joe vs pre-2014 Brock match. Damn. What could have been.


----------



## TheLapsedFan (Jan 13, 2017)

2006 Joe vs. 2003 Brock = drool


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In another time period I would have said Joe vs. Brock had a legit chance to be a 5 star match. However that would involve Lesnar wrestling a competitive match and taking some bumps. If they actually make this competitive I think it can work but I just don't believe that Joe is going to be allowed to hang in there with Brock.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Extreme Rules 2017

Ambrose vs. Miz - ****
Tag Match - **
Hardys/Shesaro - DUD
Bayley/Bliss - *
Neville/Aries - **3/4
Fatal 5 Way - ***1/2

The action in the cage match was fine but the fact the match was booked to make no sense at all was a shame.

Ambrose/Miz was the opposite as it had great action and great booking.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A lot of mixed reviews on the show (which I can understand) but FUCK that was an awesome PPV in the arena. I'll take quality over quantity and the matches that mattered definitely did while the others they made sure they were forgotten. These ratings are live ones, have not watched it back on TV yet.

Have to give a shoutout to *Crews & Kalisto* on the preshow. That was a really solid match that even I got into, and I don't even care about either of them. In fact I was doing Titus' hoora hoora hoora chant throughout most of it and cracking everyone up around me. :lol Good match though. **** 1/4*

*Ambrose vs. Miz* I thought was pretty damn good. Miz's attempts to get Dean DQed were brilliant and I liked how many times they teased it but never actually went that route. I think the two of them have some of the most underrated chemistry in the company too. Loved when they started using the legwork and the figure 4. Awesome match. I was way into it. ******

Went and got drinks during the mixed tag. Swann got a nice hometown pop and didn't see anything else from there.

The crowd was REALLY into that kendo stick on a pole match. It ended up being a squash and I'm cool with that. Don't think anyone saw that coming.

*Cage match* was a lot of fun for me but the gripes are obvious with guys simply refusing to just walking out of the cage when they had their chances and there's always going to be a lack of logic in these modern day cage matches. Still I thought they kept the action at a good pace and had some really nice spots. Felt like a gritty match where nothing came easy and I like how they kinda swerved us and let Jeff escape first when I thought for sure it would be Matt. The spot where Sheamus brogue kicked the door and Jeff went flying was awesome and obviously the whisper in the wind off the top was fucking BEAUTIFUL. Really liked the finish as it was the classic Jeff being dumbass Jeff and costing his team and there was great drama when everyone was trying to escape. It was kinda confusing at first because Jeff had already gotten out, but I believe the rule was that BOTH teammates had to be on the floor at the same time with feet touching so Jeff fucked himself. I was wearing a Cesaro shirt so HELL YEAH new champs. Cesaro doing the Razor celebration on ramp was sweet **** 1/2*

*Submission match* was in a really tough spot. A lot of people were loudly complaining about how slow it was but they gave them that cooldown spot which really sucked. Should've been Alexa/Bayley here. Match seemed very solid but I'm gonna need to watch it again to get better grasp on it. My interest sort of faded in and out although I thought the last couple minutes and the finish were excellent. They're really pushing this Neville reign. **** 1/4?*

*Fatal 5-Way* was awesome. I booed myself out. :lol Too many boos for every punch that Roman threw or every pose he ever did. I was exhausted minutes into but man that last 5-10 minutes or whatever it was was just fucking top notch. Seth's dive was nutty, I didn't see the spear coming through the barricade at all, the showdowns were well received, the twists at the end were crazy, and fucking Joe wins the whole thing? I didn't think he stood a chance at all.  Definitely the 2nd best match I've ever seen live behind Reigns/AJ II last year. ***** 1/4*

Side note, saw Michael P.S. Hayes getting into a limo on our way out so that was cool. Inside the arena we were sitting directly in front of where they came out of the curtain for the entrances (but several rows up) so we gave everyone in the main event a standing ovation when they were leaving (except Roman cause I just booed the shit out of him and swooshed my hands away :lol). Seth seemed to really appreciate the love more than anyone else. Awesome show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched WCW Bash At The Beach 1998.

Opener was Saturn/Raven. 

Wasn't anything special TBH, bog standard ravens rules match but with less weapons used. Nick Patrick did take a needless ref bump and sold it in quite ridiculous fashion;










Also, Saturn prepped Raven on some double tables, but Kanyon came in and moved Raven out the way, so Saturn still decided to go through them anyway










OK.

Kidman/Juvi. 

MOTN. I know it hasn't exactly got much competition but this was excellent IMO. Fast paced, maybe a little spotty, but there's always going to be an element of that in these matches. A nice series of bridges and reversals in this too. Really good.

Stevie Ray/Chavo Guerrero Jr.

No idea why this was even needed. Chavo was facing Eddie next in a hair vs hair match anyway, so he stooged for a bit here, before turning a simple arm lock by Ray into a finishing submission move and giving up. Probably the best Stevie Ray match tho most would say  

It segways into......

Hair vs hair: Eddie Guerrero/Chavo Guerrero Jr.

I enjoyed their match at GAB and thought this was another good outing. Paced slow at the start with more Chavo stooging and comedy, but when it got going it was quite intense. Chavo loses and shaves his own head again, freaking Eddy out

Disco Inferno/Konnan.

Konnan is the only one of the Wolpac to have a match at this PPV. Tells it all.

Shit.

Giant/Kevin Greene.

Nothing much of course but Greene tried to at least make something out of it. Pretty much a total squash by Giant though.

Cruiserweight Title: Chris Jericho/Rey Mysterio Jr.

Rey's big return after a 6 month layoff. He came back extra tanned and extra buffed up. He did look quite rusty here though which resulted in some noticable botches. Quick match too, probably to help Rey settle back in slowly. Malenko distracts Jericho and Rey rolls him up to take the title.

TV Title: Bret Hart/Booker T.

Bret going after the US Title. Little to zero build up for this match either btw. I'm pretty sure this wasn't even mentioned on the Nitro go home shoe and it wasn't on Thunder, either. Bret did intefere in a couple of Booker matches though, because he was trying to convince Benoit to join the NWO, so that's probably why this match was somehow put together.

Pretty meh TBH. Booker has had excellent matches with Benoit and Finlay in ther last month, but this was a step down, and i'm saying that when it's Bret Hart he's facing. Some of his offense was fine in execution of course, but it was just so uninteresting. It plods along at the start, threatens to turn into something when they go to the outside, but then Bret flips and attacks Booker with the chair, so he obviously gets DQ'd.

Bret continues to attack the leg of Booker after the match for extra heat.

Just pointless. This is where Bret Hart is at this stage in WCW. Sigh.

Rodman/Hogan vs Malone/DDP.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, this is it. The massive hyped up extravaganza between two basketball players masquerading as wrestlers. This went on FOR-FUCKING-EVER. I mean FOR-FUCKING-EVER. Crowd let out a loud 'This is boring' chant at one point. This got about 30 damn minutes.

THIS MATCH WENT ON FOR-FUCKING-EVER. Fuck it needed some time took of it.

Half of that was probably stalling and dicking around for no real reason. There was just nothing of note happening at all. Well, apart from this;










LOL

Rodman looks out of it at times, too. Just slumped and couldn't give a shit. Starting the match with Rodman and Malone when that's the pairing everyone wants to see was odd too. Surely you start with DDP/Hulk, then switch to the celebs to get the crowd going.

DUD. DUD. DUD. DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO WATCH THIS SHIT. I say that in a match that has DDP in it too.

Still this PPV got a record buyrate i think, so it worked to that degree.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Last night's segment between Joe/Heyman was so fucking phenomenal that it actually gave me some type of hope that we're actually going to see a competitive match at GBOF. Joe was on fucking fire.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was fantastic and Joe was perfect. Him getting Heyman in the corner, dropping the mic and telling him what he was going to do was fucking great. As long as Brock comes out and either wrecks shit and/or has a brawl with Joe, then that'll cap off the perfect start to the feud.

I'm not sure he even said anything when Goldberg speared Heyman tbh but hopefully this'll be different.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Revised ER ratings after watching on the Network:

Ambrose/Miz - *** 3/4
Cage Match - *** 1/4
Submission Match - *** 1/4
Fatal 5-Way - **** 1/4

Probably the best RAW brand PPV since the brand split, not that there's a ton of competition. The story with Joe & Wyatt's alliance came across a lot better on camera and they got some good angles on the run-ins and break ups late in the match.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Best Flair/Windham match please?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> Best Flair/Windham match please?


Battle of the Belts '86. IMO.

But I'd recommend watching the whole trilogy tbh.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Thought the show absolutely sucked and was honestly one of the worst they’ve ever done. It says a lot that I saw Crews/Kallisto on the pre-show and just skipped it. 

Miz/Ambrose started the show as it meant to go on and that was matches being made total DUDs by their stupid stipulations. The moment this didn’t start with someone attacking Miz it was DOA for me. But hey there’s a way of doing things and that means these two have to have a long match regardless of what the story dictates. That wasn’t even a missed opportunity to do something good, it was the fucking obvious direction to go in and not going in it made you feel stupid for watching something that was so blatantly insulting not only your intelligence but everyone’s intelligence. And then they do the spot with Maryse slapping Miz to try and con the ref 15 minutes in like Miz was such a retard he had 3 weeks to think of that idea and couldn’t come up with it until that long into the match. Or at least tell the story that Miz wants to pin Ambrose straight up because he’s an egomaniac and wants to prove he’s the better wrestler. But they don’t put any effort into shit like that because they think we’re idiots with no memory. And then they work the match with all these forced teases of Ambrose getting DQ’d that wouldn’t happen if the match didn’t have the stip. Like all of a sudden because Ambrose can get lose the belt on a DQ he decides to start teasing swinging a chair at Miz. But hey people don’t think about logic that much when it comes to watching our product. So basically if you enjoyed this show then you have a simple mind and if you didn’t then congratulations, you have a brain that’s in gear and thinking about whether or not things around you make sense or not. And I’m being 100% serious about that which I should mention as it’s attacking simple minded people who would need the fact that I’m attacking them spelling out to them. Oh and then the ref goes from being somewhat aware of Miz’s evil plans to get Ambrose DQ’d to thinking that Ambrose would shove him out of the ring when his back was turned. Because consistency isn’t an issue for simple minded people. Babyface gets outsmarted and pinned like a fucking loser geek because that’s how you book babyfaces to get them over.

Mixed tag was total filler and a DUD because Alicia Fox didn’t do the worlds greatest bridging suplex. I swear to god there’s a super wrestler in Alicia Fox (and his name is Noam Dar hahahahahahaha no.) if someone sent her to NXT to work proper matches with talented wrestlers and train with Sara Del Ray. Lel at Dar forgetting to kick out and let the babyface go over. After the match when Swann and Banks were dancing Michael Cole yelled out “This is cool!” and now I no longer like Rich Swann.

The Drifter is never drawing a dime of money but he’s a good midcard heel that is impossible not to get worked up over and boo. Knowing WWE though he’ll be a dominant heel and the babyfaces will never get the easy pop by coming to interrupt him and smashing the guitar over his head. 

Poor Bayley. Not much else to say. The match was short and sucked and if you’re still into Bayley after this then you’re either a pre-teen girl or a creepy pervert. I appreciated the women being involved in a match where they have to jerk a long stick of wood off a pole. The build being that Bayley is a big woman child that is too scared to use a weapon in a match where the weapon is legal to use was bad but it’s not so bad if you give it the right pay off which is Bayley gets her hand on the stick, Bliss gets cocky thinking she won’t use it and then she beats the hell out of her with it. She doesn’t even need to win the match as long as that happens. The division really doesn’t have much to put out besides Sasha vs Alexa and Bayley. At least we’ll always have that year or so where Bayley was really awesome and made us feel emotions.

Cage match was the worst match on the show and if you liked it then you have a simple mind. Sorry to break it to you but you’ll forget about that attack by this time next week. The whole concept of the match was beyond stupid but then they had so many individual spots that were mind numbingly nonsensical. Escape rules suck. We’re wrestling fans because we like wrestling, not games of chess. In a tag match it’s a billion times more infuriating. Everyone looked like a massive fuckwit in this that were a good five steps behind even all the simple minded idiots who were watching this and enjoying it. Why the fuck would you a) want to leave your partner behind in a steel cage handicap match and b) want to keep one of the babyfaces from not escaping and leaving the other behind. Oh and the idea that Jeff can escape and then go back into the match but when he does go back in he’s now no longer escaped. Remember the last PPV when Cesaro and Sheamus turned on The Hardys and beat them down and now the next PPV here Matt and Jeff are more bothered about escaping from them than getting revenge on them and beating them down. Oh and they got to choose a stipulation and not only did they choose a Cage Match over their own fucking speciality match, they then lost the match that they got to make the rules for. Oh and they lost because they’re the guys we’re supposed to root for. Finish was the icing on the cake for me. Why the fuck were Cesaro and Sheamus doing this stupid slow climb down the cage rather than dropping straight down to win the fucking match. Take your time brother Cesaro, let the simple minded people bite their nails some more. Sheamus I can maybe buy into being slow but fucking Cesaro? Oh god and that segment where Jeff was on the outside, jesus fucking christ. Why the fuck is Matt Hardy stopping Sheamus from walking out the cage door to leave him alone with Sheamus. Nope I’d rather be in a handicap match. The only thing that could have saved this match was Sheamus walking out the cage door and Matt doing overly theatrical tip toe steps behind him and just following him out the door to leave Cesaro in the ring as Matt pulls his stupid broken faces and celebrates. 

Aries/Neville at least was good but man that crowd did not care. If I’m a wrestler going to NXT then I’m praying to god that they don’t think of me as a cruiserweight because that division is utter depth for anyone and everyone. Aries was way more over on the main roster before he started wrestling on 205 Live and Neville for as good as he’s been really isn’t all that over even in front of these PPV crowds. There’s a million and one things wrong with the division but the short and narrow of it (for you simple minded people) is that nobody is getting over in that division and it’s the fault of the division itself. The stip at least didn’t kill the match like it did every match on the card before it but it certainly didn’t help it. 

Main event isn’t my kind of match. That said I expected it to be far more spotty than it was and actually the best parts of the match were when the spots were flying and the pace ramped up. If this had been half as long it would have been twice as good. Them first 20 minutes were pretty brutal. As far as it being an Extreme Rules match this was worked exactly the same as a regular 5 way would be with the only exception I can remember being Balor using a chair. Barricade spots, announce table spots and steps spots are part of your usual match anyway. Best parts of the match were when Balor and Rollins got to run wild on offence because shockingly babyfaces running wild on offence and kicking ass is actually pretty good TV. Balor looked the best guy in this by a million miles which is something coming from me. I didn’t think anyone else was good though besides Roman having the best first minute of a match in a long time. It says everything about WWE that they’re doing Brock vs Joe in a main event and I don’t care. I’m not expecting a competitive match and it really shouldn’t be which is also why I wish Rollins or Balor won instead of Joe. Brock should be running through this challenger before Strowman. Braun and Reigns are the only guys this year who should be having a competitive match with Brock and for as much as I like Joe he shouldn’t be in that mix because it dilutes the rub those guys get. Also I say I like Joe but he really hasn’t had a good match in WWE or NXT. I think everyone loves the idea of Joe and how good he used to be but does anyone actually think WWE/NXT Samoa Joe has been good? He had that one amazing performance in Dallas but nothing else has even been good let alone great. In all things come together just right version of Brock/Joe it could be awesome but between Joe’s form and Brock’s form and how the match should and likely will be booked that won’t even come close to happening. 

Also, a quick reminder, if you liked this show and any match before Neville/Aries then you have a simple mind that doesn’t get enough of a workout. Just in case you forgot the last time I pointed it out. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Completely understand all those gripes but @seabs I've just gotta say I'm glad you started breaking off paragraphs for your PPV thoughts. :lol It was always a task in itself just reading through the giant wall of text you usually go for.

Not sure if I'm supposed to take offense to your simple minded comments or not, but I'm always gonna be biased to the show since I was there. Had a great time and at the bare minimum I'd say in the modern day WWE style the main event was a success and a great match. It was expected to go long considering the people involved and the lack of other matches on the card. Didn't feel anywhere near 29 minutes in the arena.

Also they only ran the mixed tag because Swann is from Baltimore.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Battleground 2016*​
Charlotte & Dana vs. Sasha & Bayley - *** 3/4*

That pop for Bayley was DEAFENING. :mark:

New Day vs. The Wyatt Family - *****

Xavier's "what?" after Big E said they ain't neva scared. :lol Fun to look back at this and see how far Braun has come. Also, Wyatt has definitely gained some weight since this.  Fun match with good portrayal of the Xavier/Wyatt story.

Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn - ***** 1/4*

Slow start but shit, this is still such a special match after Zayn's moonsault botch. The emotion in the finish is amazing. Pisses me off watching it and still to this day Zayn has done NOTHING in this company. :no:

Cena, Enzo, & Big Cass vs. The Club - **** 1/4*

Enzo fucking killed it on the mic here. :lol Match itself isn't quite as good as I remembered, not the smoothest ever. Still some fun stuff but not a whole lot to differentiate from a RAW main event.

*WWE Title:* Ambrose (c) vs. Reigns vs. Rollins - **** 3/4*

I really didn't remember much from this match, which is shame because of how big it was, but it definitely came across better than I recalled. Still felt a bit short though and they could've done more with it, but maybe they were saving something for another meeting down the line? Idk. The last 8-10 minutes were great though. There was pretty much 3 filler matches on this PPV (Rusev/Ryder, Natalya/Becky, and Miz/Young) so I wish they would've put one of those on the preshow and given this more time so it felt even bigger and more special. Oh well. I'll take what I got.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the 20th July Nitro '98 episode today.










Great catch by Larry...................before he decided to put it in his gob :jones










Sting decides 'fuck it' and wears some black trousers.

Oh and someone called Bret Hart won the US belt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Fully Loaded '98 and Taker's theme is basically like a demo of his soon to become Ministry theme tbh. I still really like the Dungeon match too. Some right brutal head slams into the wall in this. I'll see how their rematch at SummerSlam holds up when I get there.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

So I just spent an hour typing up my WrestleMania 33 review and when I went to post it on here, it said _"invalid token"_ and I couldn't submit the post. I didn't save the work as usually the forum doesn't mess up when I post my messages (I should have copied the work just in case but I just wanted to post it once complete and checked) so I'll just post my ratings as I'm not typing it all up again. Pissed off!

*WrestleMania 33 Ratings:*

*Neville/Aries*: ****
*Andre Battle Royale*: **
*Ambrose vs. Corbin*: **
*Styles vs. Shane*: ****
*Jericho vs. Owens*: ***1/2
*Bayley vs. Charlotte vs. Sasha vs. Nia*: ***
*Club vs. Cesaro/Sheamus vs. Enzo/Cass vs. Hardy Boyz*: ***1/2
*Cena/Bella vs. Miz/Maryse*: *3/4
*Rollins vs. HHH*: ***3/4
*Wyatt vs. Orton*: *1/2
*Goldberg vs. Lesnar*: ***1/2
*Bliss vs. Naomi vs. Carmella vs. Mickie vs. Natalya vs. Becky*: *1/2 
*Undertaker vs. Reigns*: **1/2

A very entertaining WrestleMania, which I would give a 7.5-8/10, I really enjoyed it. A shame I can't show that in my in-depth review but there you go. I'm off for a lie down now, haha.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Quite possibly the worst of the RAW of the year. No effort given whatsoever with no Reigns or Balor on the show on top of neither Wyatt nor Rollins being in a match. Alicia Fox video chat shit was horrible, Bayley asking Graves for a hug was cringeworthy, and the Miz/Ambrose bear thing was god awful. Plus your main event 2 out of 3 falls Tag Team Title match ends... in a double countout. ASS

But make sure to check out the Lesnar/Joe brawl. That was awesome. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Road Wild '98.















































And let's never talk about it again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So, the listings for that Unreleased set have been released https://www.wwedvd.co.uk/unreleased-1986-1995-order-p-12375.html.

Mostly pretty shitty, with a few gems here and there. Hogan/Flair, Jarrett/Bulldog LADDER MATCH, Jarrett/Razor LADDER MATCH, and a steel cage match between Diesel and Yoko... which I am so hoping is their 30 second match where Diesel did it just to stick it to Bill Watts :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still no Savage/Taker, then :mj2

I wonder if that Rockers/POP is the same as I have dated as 01/15, which is fantastic, or a rematch?

I've also seen that Perfect/HBK house show match too. Very overbooked with the Smoking Gunns getting involved IIRC. Although I have it dated as 5th May I think so again, it might be a different match tbh.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Pretty much since getting the Network a few years ago I’ve been trying to get back into Attitude Era WWE/F from my childhood to do those kinds of revisits so many people around my age do. Unlike a lot of people though I’ve discovered most of it is just kinda… boring and so it’s been really slow going. I don’t think I’ve watched a complete match yet on a PPV save for those obvious high spots like that epic Hell in a Cell debut, which also featured Kane’s debut (basically every persons my age favourite wrestler from the AE) and so I really haven’t had a lot to say. Sure there are actual stories and characters at this time rather than just endless streams of contextless matches filled with company line mouth pieces like they have today but the WWE/F’s attempts to be “edgy” have not aged well and the amount of sleaze everywhere is more uncomfortable than sexy now I’m almost twenty six. Not to mention at this stage it’s a wrestling promotion with almost no actual wrestling.

In my latest attempt to try and find stuff from the AE that doesn’t taint my childhood nostalgia, I decided to watch Royal Rumble 1998 which is seen by some as the beginning of the era of Stone Cold’s rise to truly legendary status after riding a year of red hot overness through 1997. 

Before we get to the Rumble though, there is at least one other match worth talking about when we get I believe our first title match of the card for the IC Belt which meant a lot more in 1998 than it does in 2017 which is between 1998s equivalents of Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns, in a ahead of their time Ken Shamrock against a still transitioning The Rock. The match itself kinda sucks, The Rock is playing for heat in such a way that there is almost no action in the ring but when a high impact move does come along, knowing the mat was basically made of concrete at this time makes the bumps seem more impressive. 

Most importantly is the absolute chaos of the ending. I’m not even sure what was planned and what wasn’t. I believe it is D’Lo Brown who gets tangled in the ropes which means the ref isn’t really paying attention to the match but the knuckle shot doesn’t come as a direct result of that, also because the ref is trying to get D’Lo Brown out of the ropes Shamrock effectively pins The Rock for a seven count and it looks ridiculous. The Rock is just laying there, looking across the ring, clearly agitated while he waits for the ref to start the count. I mean was that intended for The Rock to be beaten so definitively because they knew Shamrock would get screwed or is that just a bit of additional narrative because of a botch? The ref also does an amazing bit of no selling as well, we’re educated to believe that either refs are made of paper or wrestlers are superhuman monsters but either way a ref can die from being looked at we’ve lead to believe however during an explosive kick out from Shamrock after he’s hit with the knucks, he launches The Rock into the ref who in turn sends the ref flying but the ref is straight back to trying to get D’Lo out of the ropes again. 

Then of course, The Rumble. I don’t know whether they had real roster depth concerns or what but this match is pretty much an insomnia cure with the majority of the entrants made up of jobber tag teams or stable members and Mick Foley enters the match as three different characters. It’s made worse by WWE/F’s fetish for the image of loads of guys in the ring, no one can do any great action because the ring is so crammed but no one is getting eliminated either so it just feels so utterly boring. 

You would expect that the match really picks up the pace by the time Stone Cold finally arrives at number twenty four, which is basically what this match was waiting for, as about half of the entrants were still in the match, basically all of which were jobbers, just waiting for Stone Cold to clean them up. Or you would assume. Instead after two quick fire eliminations it all goes back to a crammed ring full of a bunch of boring guys not doing anything. 

Weird bit of censorship during the finish as well. The Rock flips the bird at Stone Cold which is uncensored but whatever he says to him is not just bleeped, they cut the whole damn sound of the PPV for a few seconds. Really weird. 

The main event of the PPV is a fantastic match, The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels have always been fantastic dance partners, presenting in ring work and bumps which is quite unlike anything found elsewhere in the AE. Not sure how I feel about the ending here, the visual of the casket burning is awesome and it carries on the stories running though this nicely but when you see two guys give it their all in the ring you kinda want to see one person get a complete and definitive win over the other at the end. Not that that ever really happened in the AE.

I guess we'll see what the next four weeks of Raw bring, which is arguably at this point the bigger focus than the PPVs.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I watched some wrestling last night whilst having a few drinks so I'll give me thoughts below. I was debating whether to try writing up my WrestleMania 33 review from scratch again but I haven't got the time to give an in-depth review for that and I don't really have the motivation to write it up again after it all got lost. However, I'll write up about 2 of the matches from WrestleMania 33 I re-watched:

*WrestleMania 33 Raw Tag Team Championship Ladder Match*
_Club (c) vs. Enzo/Cass vs. Cesaro/Sheamus vs. The Hardy Boyz_
I'm a huge Jeff Hardy fan and I've always liked Matt and appreciate some of his character creations (i.e. V1-aaaahhh) especially with the BROKEN gimmick, which reinvented and sort of reinvigorated his career. Anyway, I know there were rumours The Hardy's would possibly make a return to WWE after the whole Impact Wrestling fiasco and only working temporarily with ROH but when they ruled out appearing at the biggest stage of them all, I didn't think they would appear. How wrong was I? I was genuinely gobsmacked and I was buzzing as soon as I saw both brothers reappear for the first time in 8 years as a tag team. The fans were going crazy as was I and it was an unbelievable moment, possibly the biggest pop of the night. The Hardy's are super over anyway but the nostalgia appeal also worked in their favour and it was great to see them return home and I for one, was elated to see them back!

The match was short for a Ladder match spectacle but still, at a decent length and there was a few creative spots here and there with all 8 men working hard. It also felt like more of a stiff Ladder match than usual, especially with The Club and Sheamus/Cesaro in this match. Cass went crazy delivering Big Boots to everyone including a great spot where Jeff jumped off the second rope into the boot of Cass. Also loved the Brogue Kick spot where Jeff went to the outside, climbed on the middle rope and Sheamus just nailed him and Jeff fell onto the other opponents on the outside. Other cool spots included Cesaro springboarding onto the ladder, Cesaro delivering a European Uppercut to Enzo in midair, Cass launching Enzo over two ladders onto Gallows, Cesaro delivering a Foot Stomp from the shoulders of Gallows onto Anderson, etc. However, the two biggest spots were saved for last with Matt delivering a Twist Of Fate onto Anderson off the Ladder and then Jeff at the age of 39 shows what a crazy daredevil he still is, puts his body on the line and delivers an AWESOME SWANTON BOMB OFF THE TOP OF THE LADDER ONTO CESARO AND SHEAMUS! (the latter's ladder doesn't break but still visually looks great!). Matt captures the Tag Team titles in a really solid, entertaining match. Also, credit to Cesaro who I thought was a real standout in this match! Good stuff.
*Rating:* ***1/2

*WrestleMania 33 - WWE Universal Championship Match*
_Goldberg (c) vs. Lesnar_
Everyone was speculating how this match would turn out, would it be another squash, would it go longer than 2 minutes? In the end we got a 5 minute battle that was FUCKING AWESOME FROM START TO FINISH! This was just an all-out ass kicking contest with two behemoths going at it with their power-moves and high intensity offence. The fans awakened again during this match, they were into every second and were pro-Lesnar however, in the end, they were just into everything including Goldberg's moments. I like the story this match told with Lesnar being dominated in the past by Goldberg, even underestimating him at Survivor Series last year and the Royal Rumble this year and people querying whether he could finally tame the unstoppable Goldberg. I like the fact straight away Lesnar starts quick with 3 German Suplexes, this time trying to get the early advantage only for Goldberg to get up straight away and completely SMASH THROUGH LESNAR WITH AN ALMIGHTY SPEAR!!! The crowd goes insane and I love Heyman's facial expressions through this as he starts to doubt Lesnar's chances and he has that astonished look like _"what does Brock have to do to put Goldberg away or keep him down!?"_ Priceless!

Goldberg then nails a second Spear and Lesnar wisely rolls to the outside but Goldberg doesn't give him a time to breathe, he quickly ensues his wounded foe and stalks him, measures him up and in vehement fashion he charges forwards AND COLLIDES INTO LESNAR HITTING A MALICIOUS SPEAR THROUGH THE BARRICADE! THAT WAS FREAKING AWESOME!!! The fans are going wild as this is just two men kicking each other's ass! Goldberg senses the end is nigh and the fans are now chanting for the Universal Champion. They know this is great action! Goldberg throws Lesnar into the ring and signals for the Jackhammer but Lesnar reverses and goes for the F5, no... Goldberg slides out and hits ANOTHER SPEAR! Lesnar is hurt and Heyman at this point is bewildered! What does Lesnar have to do? Goldberg has his number! Goldberg hoists Lesnar up and executes a devastating Jackhammer! The referee accentuates the count, 1... 2... no! Lesnar somehow kicks out and Goldberg albeit, shocked momentarily, he quickly realises he might need to hit one final move and immediately goes to the corner, coiled and ready to strike. He charges again and at full velocity he goes for another Spear but LESNAR LEAPFROGS OVER HIM AND GOLDBERG GOES CRASHING INTO THE CORNER! He looks semi-conscious!

Lesnar has the advantage and starts hitting German after German Suplex, nailing another 7 to make it 10 in total. The fans are loving this! Goldberg though is doing what no other man has done and is trying to shake off the cobwebs and get to a vertical base after each German Suplex but on the 10th one Lesnar doesn't give him a moment to recuperate. He sees his opportunity and hits an F5, 1... 2... 3! Lesnar secures the Universal Championship in one of the most enthralling 5 minute matches of the year! It was a shame Goldberg didn't kick out of the F5 like Lesnar did with the Jackhammer but I guess it was more surprising that it ended like that. Not only that but they made Goldberg look strong by getting to his feet after each German Suplex. Goldberg looked great here and Lesnar came out looking strong. Just a straight-up awesome ass kicking bout!
*Rating:* ***1/2

*No Way Out 2006 - World Heavyweight Championship Match*
_Kurt Angle (c) vs. The Undertaker_
This for me, was The Undertaker at his absolute peak in the ring, he started to implement more submission offence and a technical moveset into his matches and this was the first sign of that in a big match for the World title no less! I've seen this match once or twice but that was ages ago but I remember absolutely adoring it the first time I watched it and when reading reviews this was getting some of the 5* classic ratings. I regret not trying to see this sooner but I'm glad I did last night! Let's just say, this was indeed a classic!

The match has both men trying to get an early advantage, avoiding each others moves or reversing out of a hold but soon The Undertaker gets the upperhand and works over the arm of Angle, which made sense so Ankle wouldn't have any strength in his arm to lock in the Ankle Lock. The Undertaker does a good job working on it for a decent duration and Angle sells the arm well. However, there is a turning point in the match where Angle manages to chop block the leg of The Undertaker and begins to work away at that specific limb. The Undertaker sells the leg really well throughout the entire match, hopping and walking gingerly and trying to shake the effects off and Angle does a wonderful job at persisting with his dismantling of the leg of his challenger, even locking in a Figure Four around the ring post! The crowd are enjoying this as it's a very technical match for large chunks of it. The Undertaker does hit some power moves and hard right hands and uppercuts but also attempts a more technical style at times, even reversing some of Angle's submission moves into a version of the Triangle Choke!

The psychology and selling in this one is spot on and they tell an intriguing and engaging story in this one, The Undertaker at times tries to outwrestle the _"Wrestling Machine"_ and I love the fact Angle just wants to make Undertaker tap. The final part of this match gets really great with the action picking up and almost turning into a brawl on the outside where the Deadman has had enough and starts to undress the announce table, only for Angle to counter and hit an ANGLE SLAM THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE! The referee moderates the ten count but Angle stops him, he wants to beat The Undertaker cleanly and in the ring! That was great! Angle puts The Undertaker in the ring but he kicks out! Eventually The Undertaker comes right back with an awesome Chokeslam but on landing, his leg buckles and he takes a bit of time going for the cover and this allows Angle to kick out! Then the match gets really awesome with The Undertaker going for the Tombstone Piledriver, Angle reverses into a Tombstone attempt of his own but then Undertaker overpowers him and goes for the Tombstone again but Angle escapes and locks in the Ankle Lock! This is brilliant!

Angle has the submission move locked in tight and The Undertaker is writhing in pain! The move is locked in for a good while! However, The Undertaker manages to somehow reverse the move and eventually clasps onto Angle's arm and lock in another Triangle Choke! This could be the end as Angle after battling for a while starts to fade into unconsciousness and the referee checks the arm of Angle who raises his arm on the third drop attempt and gets to his feet and in a cool looking counter, he rolls over and pins Undertaker's shoulders to the mat for the 3 count. That was an incredible match, fantastic action throughout and had phenomenal psychology, with The Undertaker working on the arm for a good portion at the start and then Angle just destroying the leg of Taker. It was great how The Undertaker thought he made Angle tap out (I believe they claimed throughout the commentary that neither man has ever tapped out in their careers) only for the referee to tell him otherwise and he had this look of absolute disgust on his face. The Undertaker also uses a couple of new moves in this one (i.e. the Downward Spiral was nice!) and the finish sort of worked, Angle won by countering a submission move and The Undertaker looked like he nearly had Angle beat at his own game. I originally had the match rated at ****3/4 but I think I'll settle just a little below that. Still, an absolute classic from 2006.
*Rating:* ****1/2

*Unforgiven 2006 - WWE Championship TLC Match*
_Edge (c) vs. Cena_
Edge had the hometown advantage here and looked to seize the moment by beating Cena one more time to send him to SmackDown! This rivalry was great and one of the best of 2006 and really helped elevate Edge to the next level as a Main Event star. The crowd absolutely hated Cena here (which was no surprise) but credit to him, he worked hard here and took some nasty bumps! Edge chose his speciality, the Tables, Ladders and Chairs match, a stipulation he's fought in many times in the past and never lost so that was the second advantage he had going into this WWE Championship bout.

The match is at a crazy pace throughout with both men trying to hit their best move and utilize the weapons around them. Edge using the chair early also made sense as that was his special weapon of choice! This match contained some brutal spots; the Reverse DDT into the two sat up chairs, the Powerslam through the table (this was during the botched spot but both men recovered well and quickly so as to not take away from the match and the fans didn't crap on it), Cena being pushed off the ladder through the table on the outside, Edge crashing through two tables on the outside by mistake due to Lita's interference and then the amazing visual where Cena was looking to climb the ladder only for Edge to try and stop him and Cena just used all his strength to hoist Edge onto his shoulders and deliver the ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT THROUGH TWO STACKED UP TABLES IN A CRAZY HARDCORE SPOT!!! Cena takes his time and wins the belt and ends Edge's first reign as WWE Champion. Fantastic action from the onset and one of the best singles TLC matches in its archive.
*Rating:* ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Perfect segway to pimp my Brock/Goldberg review http://www.wrestlingforum.com/colum...ar-wrestlemania-33-review-3.html#post68390905 :cozy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Disgraceful, Brock. That would be like me coming in and pimping my WM 33 ramble for both the Brock/Goldberg match and the tag ladder match. Which can be found here btw http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wrestlemania-33-ppv-ramble/. But I wouldn't do that cos it would be rude :side:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was too apathetic for Brock vs Goldberg to care. (my peak was popping for a Goldberg WM entrance for a second time) Wasn't bad, but idk. Wasn't good either. Basically had to rely on the finisher fest gimmick in order to make sure nobody would shit on it. By that point it was exhausted, and knowing Brock aka the heel was going over clean w/no drama, ehhhh. It was the match they should have had all the way back in 2004. Knowing it wasn't even what they booked the second time around really made it too little, too late.

Cena vs Edge TLC match is the drizzing shits. Oh dear, what a failure. I'm in the process of reminding myself how poor RAW circa 06 is again, too. Always liked the majority of Backlash 06, yet the build so far...yikes. MAY 19. Yeah, can never forget about that gem. And how they openly say Kane - aka A MONSTER - is starring in a movie. Kayfabe well attained, everybody.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Went to an NXT house show in Bel Air, MD last night. The attendance was a little alarming because there was a bunch of empty seats, but the folks that were there were LOUD. 

Main event was Roode vs. Roddy for the NXT Title and that was the absolute #1 main event I could've hoped for so that shocked me. Match was really great so watch out when those two finally have a match on TV. Roode's character work was excellent. He's SO fucking over. Roddy is a bit of charisma vacuum as he always has been but man the dude is stiff and fluid in the ring. Idk how far that's gonna get him in the company but it was great to see him live after watching him for like 11 years now. Roode is incredible shape for 40 too. *** 3/4

Aleister Black vs. The Velveteen Dream was the 2nd best match of the night. Really surprised by the chemistry they had and honest to god Patrick Clark is killing it with this gimmick. Maybe it's just because we were in his backyard so he had insults at will but man he was great. Black is gonna be a superstar and has some awesome theme music. *** 1/4

Add Drew McIntyre to the list of guys that look huge and are super imposing in person. He's right next to Orton in terms of dudes that left me in awe when I saw them in person. Had a nice physical match with Andrade here. ***

Ohno faced a jobber who I have never heard of. :lol He's fat in person for sure but very deceiving with the agility. Asuka was super over, Mandy Rose is fucking BEAUTIFUL, and the tag team division is lacking heavily right now. Show was well worth my $20 and better than the RAW house show I went to a few months ago.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Doing my own personal Attitude Era journey, I just watched the Raw’s bridging the Rumble to Wrestlemania 14, skipping the “PPV” in between as I hear it’s complete filler. It took all damn day and honestly it’s really hard to write up how I feel about everything because there is so much bad but so much good and the two things are usually deeply intertwined. 

This is no truer than with the WWF Title picture, there is more focus on Mike Tyson (the convicted rapist) than there is on Austin and Michaels and while it’s vile I do get the business aspect in getting a name like Tyson’s slapped onto their product. I would like to think if they tried this in 2017, it wouldn’t go down so well but at this time the WWF fans are cancerous (they really hurt the shows in my mind, I never thought I’d actually miss that smarky 2017 audience). 

Not quite as problematically but still an issue, they also never make Tyson more than a novelty marketing ploy, even when it was all over I still wasn’t really sure why Tyson was even here in the first place, in story. It’s a shame as I really like DX and I really like Stone Cold and their interactions without Tyson are great, all the antics, all the intense promos and crucially… beat downs, not matches. Nothing kills the momentum of a PPV match for me than them basically doing the PPV match for months on end on the weekly, usually watering it down for free TV but chucking random stipulations at it instead meaning by the time you actually get to the PPV you don’t give a fuck anymore. Owens/Rollins may be the worst feud in recent memory for that.

Also a shock that Stone Cold gets a pretty big win pinning the Intercontinental Champ Rock on the Go Home show of Raw before ‘Mania. I know Rock isn’t AS big a star at this point as he would go on to become but with how it works these days this would guarantee a loss. Instead the era of Stone Cold is only just beginning. 

But then on the flip… Austin, visually, has not aged well. I mean, was he really cool in 1998? Like I get there is inherent homoeroticism involved in oiled men in trunks pretending to fight, that is pro wrestling yo but like… why are Austin’s jeans so tight? Why does he have a bumbag on? Why the tucked in t-shirts or shirtless with a leather vest, gold chain and earring? He looks more like a sex offender than a badass.

Also much like Raw in 2017, despite being shorter, still feels way too long. I get that it is a wrestling promotion but the wrestling in 1998 isn’t even that great on PPV, let alone on weeklies and there are so many filler matches and so little actual content per Raw that really progresses anything. I guess not a lot has changed in the last two decades. It kinda surprise me that since WWF actually had something to lose here that the product still isn’t all that great, not only is there heaps of filler but matches and crucially stories rarely have logical progression and endings either. What is different is that Raw in 1998 is a much less refined production, the timing for pyro, lights, music, scripting etc goes wrong A LOT and people, even top stars, fuck their promos a lot here too and they rub our faces in it by leaving the mistakes in the replace packages.

Probably my favourite angle at this point is Undertaker/Kane. Like most 90s kids Kane was my favourite wrestler growing up, WWF/E really blew it with him and the whole story with The Undertaker down the line but at this stage Kane is the fucking man. A fucking indestructible beast who flat out wants to murder The Undertaker and who loves showing up on Raw to just take out everyone, set off some pyro and then leave again. It’s so much fun seeing him chuck lightning and blow things up, setting people on fire with his powers. The Undertaker’s powers are cool too even if him coming back from the dead every few months softens the impact a little. How is Bray Wyatt so lame when they were doing this so awesome twenty years earlier?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Signing Tyson was one of the few genuine masterstrokes that Vince McMahon pulled off. It's one of the ultimate catalysts in the WWF overtaking WCW and putting them out of business.

Make no bones about it - Austin was cool as fuck in 1998. Sex offender? What the fuck are you watching?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When I was 11 I had at least two things removed from me in surgery, it was so painful I was in tears, someone stole my ice cream from the hospital freezer, and my ears were very senstive to water for years and years after it. If you add every bit of pain of all that time together you would not equal half of the pain I went through during any single second of the Bayley This Is Your Life segment. If the extension cord tucked next to my couch was more visible to me during it, I would not be here writing this today.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Honey Bucket said:


> Signing Tyson was one of the few genuine masterstrokes that Vince McMahon pulled off. It's one of the ultimate catalysts in the WWF overtaking WCW and putting them out of business.
> 
> Make no bones about it - Austin was cool as fuck in 1998. Sex offender? What the fuck are you watching?












So badass?


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So despite spending all day Saturday skimming through about ten episodes of Raw from 1998 by the time Wrestlemania 14 finally arrived I still found myself only watching three matches on the card. Those being Rock/Shamrock for the IC Title, Kane/Undertaker and Stone Cold/Shawn Michaels for the WWF Title. 

Speaking about Rock/Shamrock, it’s a terrible bit of storytelling but a decent bit of action. I say action because it wasn't really a match, more a brawl and I mean that in the bad way. That image of Shamrock with the ankle lock locked in refusing to let go as blood pours from The Rock’s mouth… wow. Shamrock almost feels like a bit part in this story when he should be the protagonist, as the focus here seems to be more on The Rock and the Nation’s future than anything else. I guess it inadvertently makes you really love Shamrock at least, he is 1998’s Brock Lesnar and you can’t help but feel he deserves so much more. Yeah throwing refs around in awesome looking suplexes is cool and all but him beating The Rock for the IC Title twice and getting the decision reversed both times kind of sums up how bad so much of the AE booking is, especially as I know in hindsight the closest Shamrock gets to pay off from this is winning the King of The Ring which at this point is the equivalent of winning the Andre The Giant Jobber Royal.

Kane/Undertaker is a weird match mostly because it is a match. I know stuff like the Inferno Match is around the corner but this is Wrestlemania… the grandest stage of them all. After that build, the death and resurrection, the lightning and pyro kinesis, you finally get your monsters in the ring and there is no stipulation? Not even one? Why?! I mean don’t get me wrong both guys were ahead of their time in the contrast of appearance and ability, if they debuted today they would be right at home (well maybe not the superpower stuff, unless it was Lucha Underground) and they do put a lot of effort in putting themselves over as indestructible monsters even with the limitations of their match but how much better would this have been as a deathmatch or some other kind of match that lets these two murder each other and spill some claret? I mean hell, even the Michaels match back at the Rumble was a Casket match. The fuck? Also did they botch the finish? Kane kicks out pretty much the same time as the three count and the aftermath is just a bit of a mess.

Then of course the main event. I remember reading somewhere once that both Stone Cold and Michaels worked this match hurt but you can’t tell if that is the case because the story is so well told. Whether Michaels wanted too or not, he sure puts Stone Cold over here even though Austin can’t really be any more over. By AE standards, maybe because it’s Wrestlemania, but this was hell of an enjoyable battle.

It is just a shame that the finish is such nonsense, Mike Tyson betrays DX for no clear reason and after doing nothing for the whole match is allowed to do the three count which seals Michael’s fate as Champion? I know they always want some big closing moment for each ‘Mania but what the fuck is happening here?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That was easily the worst MITB Ladder match in history. Absolutely horrific match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Probably the worst PPV of the year, right next to Backlash. The booking in the first 90 minutes was absolutely atrocious.

Women's MITB - ** 1/2 (There was more chaos during that Smackdown brawl they had than this. :lol Needed more time and just _something_ to make it memorable aside from the dumb finish. The right person won imo but the way it happened was wrong)

Usos/New Day - ** 1/2 (Fun moments but extremely disjointed down the stretch with a bunch of nearfalls just for the sake of them. Countout finish is weak as all hell too. Did we not just see that in a title match at Backlash???)

Naomi/Lana - *? (God damn this booking was bad too. Talk about making Lana feel like a complete afterthought)

Orton/Jinder II - *** (This was like... the exact same match they had last month.  I like that they're taking the simple & classic approach with Jinder and having him work a limb, but that's having nothing to do with the payoff at all. Was definitely entertained as hell seeing Orton throw around the Singh Bros like small children, but could see the finish coming a mile away)

Breezango/Ascension - DUD

Men's MITB - **** (The pacing was a little slow at times and I get it if you don't like the length, but as a whole I loved this. Thought the way the match played out was really smart and they built to all the spots extremely well. Lots of brutal ones too. Everyone did their part in putting on a show and the Styles/Nakamura showdown near the end was awesome. Really felt like a major moment and an important match. This seems to be WWE's strong point these days, the multi-man matches)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I lost by watching this show. So bad.

Women's MITB - *1/4
Usos/New Day - ***1/2
Lana/Naomi - 1/2*
Orton/Mahal - *3/4
Men's MITB - ****


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Womens MITB - **3/4
New Day/Usos - ***1/4
Naomi/Lana - **
Orton/Mahal - **3/4
MITB - ****

The ladder match was great but this show did NOT feel like a PPV. New Day/Usos could be great with a proper finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> When I was 11 I had at least two things removed from me in surgery, it was so painful I was in tears, someone stole my ice cream from the hospital freezer, and my ears were very senstive to water for years and years after it. If you add every bit of pain of all that time together you would not equal half of the pain I went through during any single second of the Bayley This Is Your Life segment. If the extension cord tucked next to my couch was more visible to me during it, I would not be here writing this today.


This is me after watching 99% of anything related to WWE today.

Part of me wanted to chime in w/that PPV from last night falls in line w/this too, but I was so apathetic b/c the card & build was such "WHO CARES" that I just sat and laughed. Until Breezango had a segment. Then I left the room as I uttered "I have to fucking get out of here" b/c I absolutely can't take that bullshit w/o feeling my neck tighten up as if there's a vice clinching.

Both MITB matches were SHIT. (well it all was outside of Usos vs New Day, but that had a finish that was SHIT, so fits the bill) LOL @ Nakamura's booking. If that was John Cena or Roman Reigns the match would be universally shat on. So please, lets not. And any match that has me calling Sami Zayn an idiot during is automatically 0/10.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Literally the only reasons I'm still following these days are because of Styles, The Usos and Braun Strowman. Samoa Joe vs. Lesnar also intrigues me but it's all for naught if they just book a usual Lesnar squash.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HE'S BACK! :mark: Great Balls of Fire may be a fucking ridiculous name for a PPV, but damn I'm pretty hyped for the top two matches.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/876987385711476736


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Best Raw of the year last night. Roman/Braun/Cass killed it. Good segments.

Roman/Joe - ***1/2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Great Balls of Fire is shaping up to be one of the better PPVs of the year. They're been so weak in general this year that I'm actually genuinely looking forward to it thanks to Lesnar/Joe and Reigns/Strowman.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though we've seen Braun/Reigns before, I've enjoyed their matches so I'm looking forward to what should be the end chapter. Joe/Lesnar could be anything it wants to be tbh and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing that too, but don't be surprised if it sticks to the regular Lesnar formula.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

If that show doesn't end with Braun coming out to face off with Brock I'll be very disappointed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Platt said:


> If that show doesn't end with Braun coming out to face off with Brock I'll be very disappointed.


Meltzer speculated that they could go with Reigns/Lesnar at SummerSlam. Think it was just his opinion though as Brock/Braun has seemingly been the plan all year tbh and they should certainly have a face off to end the PPV.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I'll take Reigns/Brock @ SS if it means Braun get him at Mania.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Show sucked. Again.

Womens MITB was terrible. This new approach that they have where they do the entrances and then show the video package is so odd. Everybody make their way to the ring and then stand there for a few minutes while we show a video on the tron. The initial 5 way that turned into chaos was a million times better than this and exactly what you’d want this match to be. That brawl was the best thing any of the women have done all year. That brawl had a ton of cool spots too that were a) bigger and b) more frequent. The only memorable spot in this was Charlotte’s dive which was tame compared to the shit she pulls in every other big match. Everything else was garbage pull the ladder with someone and then ram it into someone spots which are the Ladder Match equivalent of the we’re going to a break chinlock spot for me. None of what they did was good but this should have been laid out like the original TLC Match where you let them do anything they want, steal the show and make a career out of this match. Instead it was a tame version of a brawl they did on TV. Finish was garbage. I mean duh. It didn’t help that they did the ref discussion about it which always leads to the match being restarted but then Ellsworth just announced Carmella the winner and that was that. Would have been still been a terrible finish but not half as terrible had the match ended 10 minutes later to end a great match with a ton of memorable spots. But instead it was a garbage finish to end a totally unmemorable and flat Ladder Match.

New Day/Usos was turning into a great match until they cut the heat segment off just as it was picking up steam. It was almost like they said well we have to do a heat segment because that’s how you do tag matches but really we just want to do a big finishing stretch so we can get a good star rating in the observer so we’ll do a quick one for a couple of minutes to please our agent. Which is a real shame because for what it was it was great. Some of their promo material is a bit cringey but from the rare ring time they get working someone over heel Usos are really good. Post hot tag was good for a bit and then it just kept going past my interest peak. Of course Kofi didn’t sell the leg. I thought Kofi deaded himself on that cut off spot but then they showed a replay that showed him landing pretty much ok and I was like well thanks for showing the replay fuckface. Finish was absolute garbage. “It’s been that way forever” isn’t an excuse when it comes to the stupidness of keeping your title if you just walk out on the match. That’s the type of shit that a non wrestling fan watches and is like yeah this is why pro wrestling is garbage. One of the key things that is driving me crazy watching these shows this year is the inconsistency to WWE’s own narratives. Like why the fuck are New Day not going out to break the count and chase The Usos down. Instead they sat in the ring like fucking morons looking sad that the heels were smart enough to find a way by the rules to retain. Yet in any other match without that finish they would go out and break the count. Happens all other every show. In the Orton/Mahal match the ref teased DQing Mahal because the Bollywood Boys put his foot on the rope and even though he saw them when is that ever a DQ tease. It’s just the ref throws them out but they decide here they want to tell a different story and you don’t get to just make these things up as you go along like that. This bullshit finish where nobody wins or loses is yet another case of divisions not having enough depth post brand split so they have to stretch key programs like this out which means either trading wins back and forth or doing non finishes so they can go again. If The Usos just did something heelish to get the pin you’d achieve the same outcome without pissing all your viewers off half as much.

Naomi/Lana was better than the Womens MITB Match in the sense that the MITB match had no positives going for it and this at least had Lana’s ASS. Oh and that awesome entrance music. Match sucked but duh, it’s a non wrestler who can’t wrestle and a wrestler who can’t wrestle. I’m fine with Lana as a character being delusional thinking she can hang with the kayfabe strong wrestlers but she shouldn’t then actually hang with them. This should have been Naomi demolishing the delusional heel but again WWE set their matches up a particular way and that involves the babyface working from underneath and they ain’t changing that for anyone other than Brock and hey shockingly none of your babyfaces are over. I assume the idea behind Carmella coming out was because she isn’t keeping the briefcase for long and this was the well she should have cashed in there spot. Which she really should have done if she saw the tweet from Bryan that they showed on the show.

I hated the Kanellis’ segment at first but then when I thought about it later I kinda loved it. Music rules and if WWE were as good at booking wrestling as they were at booking entrance music they’d have an awesome product. That music is going to get over big and look out for the wrestling nerd couple walking down the aisle to it. At first I rolled me eyes at Mike being Kanellis now not Bennett because it’s so WWE but it’s actually awesome that the whipped husband is taking the wife’s name. JBL’s “he took her name” and subsequent look was honestly the peak of the show. WWE don’t need anymore Chris Hero’s or Roderick Strong’s. They have plenty of them. Midcard characters with actual characters and heels that aren’t designed to be cool heels and that will get heat are exactly what they need and that’s exactly what they’ll be so I’m all in already. Him oogling at Maria while she does all the talking and then needing her interference to win all his matches is going to make him a great midcard heel and if they really want an over babyface for a short term run when he ditches her (because everyone gets ditched in WWE Enzo!)

Orton/Jinder was basically a carbon copy of their last match. Good parts were Orton looking hot on offence and murdering the Bollywood Boys. Everything else sucked a dick. Jinder brings absolutely nothing to his matches. Orton fell for the exact same trick as last time because he’s a babyface so he’s a fucking idiot. I cannot fathom how people think this is a ***1/2-**** match. Not to go on a rant about star ratings but it feels as though five years from now people will look back on all these matches they gave these high star ratings to and not a remember anything about the match itself. Like there’s so many people throwing ****1/2 at the main event here and at Extreme Rules and I can honestly barely tell you 5 great moments between the two matches right now and twelve months from now I bet you the same people rating them that highly won’t be able to either. Unless they’re rating them on the ******1/4 rating scale then ok.

Fashion Files skits are pretty great. Popped for “property of Paul E”. I don’t need to see anyone wrestle The Ascension regardless of how fun their skits are though.

Main event was blah. Nothing original, nothing exciting. Got good when Nakamura came out. I like that they’re very self aware that AJ vs Nakamura is a big thing and that they’re building to it as being a big thing. Pop for Nakamura coming back out was great. It’d be nice if his strikes were better than they are and the trend of big pop for his entrance, crowd sing his music for a bit and then go quiet is still continuing, even here. Corbin winning is whatever. Everyone gets their turn and merit has nothing to do with it. They’ve just decided his time is coming and that’s that.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> Meltzer speculated that they could go with Reigns/Lesnar at SummerSlam. Think it was just his opinion though as Brock/Braun has seemingly been the plan all year tbh and they should certainly have a face off to end the PPV.


Reigns came out at the beginning of RAW and said that his Summerslam announcement was that he's challenging the Universal Champ there, so I assume he already has the shot right now unless Braun beats him or puts him out of action, etc.

I'm also gonna go ahead and say right now that if Strowman faces Lesnar, I think he needs to win. The timing is right.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Anyone seen the Attitude era sets? Was thinking of purchasing them as they're cheap.

Enjoying the Hardcore Championship one so far, picked up the Blu-ray version at a car boot sale for £5.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll honestly be shocked if this is any good at all...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/879897815211585536


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Someone on here a long time ago recommended I watch Beach Blast '92 and their recommendation was great. Absolutely love Rude/Steamboat and Cactus/Sting. Six man tag, Pillman/Scotty and the main event were pretty enjoyable too.

Also, how do people here feel about the Nakamura/Joe matches? I watched them again recently and I'm just not all into them. Kinda overly long and while the wrestling itself is clean and everything, I wasn't really feelin' it.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Rip Oliver, The Assassin & Ed Wiskowski vs. Buddy Rose, Roddy Piper & Hack Sawyer (2/3 Falls) (3/17/84)*
_Roddy Piper in Portland is just the best. The best people! I never realised going into this set that he was so over in Portland and boy is he ever over. Guy comes back into the town for this and gets a standing ovation. A standing ovation! More people need to get on the Piper bandwagon with me btw. All time great Don Owens ramble here too about Piper just having surgery on his thumb which is all bandaged up (guess where that goes...) so he's made it a 3 team match (I love how he always call trios matches that because everytime I'm expecting some Dragon Gate shit) and then all hell breaks loose and Don Owens hasn't finished his introductions god damn it so he's just standing in his corner determined to get his shtick in while Matt Borne is protecting him trying to usher him out. Don Owens is the type of guy who'd run back into his burning home to get his diary and think YOU'RE the idiot for asking why he'd run back into a burning building. Piper just decking people is so much fun. He's a guy that should be brought up more in the best worked punches discussion too. He gets trapped in The Clan's corner early on and instead of getting his ass kicked like a modern day geek he starts unload fists on all of them and the crowd go fucking ballistic. Matt Borne is the guest ref btw and I loved the ending to the first fall where The Clan run in to break up the first pin and then the babyfaces go for another after and Borne just decides fuck it and fasts counts them down. There's a spot in the second fall where Piper holds The Assassin (33.3% chance right?) for Rose to clobber but he ducks and Rose punches Piper and it's the fucking greatest thing ever. The stand off for it should be the stuff of legend it's so amazing. And then the pop for when they get back on the same page is out of this world. Piper eventually does get his thumb worked over and Wiskowski is a motherfucker ripping away at it. Oliver decides to keep working the arm over the ropes because he's a fucking bell but thankfully Wiskowski's in the group now and brings the good stuff. The match alone is absolutely fantastic but then you get the post match stuff and it's 1980 all over again. Piper in Portland has been like a legit 10/10 at every turn. Borne gets beat down and when I say Matt Borne was the star of the post match angle ahead of Piper (who knocks it out of the park too, don't throw rocks at a guy with a machine gun!!!) you know he's fucking on it. The bloody face and the white pants and then whipping himself with the chain that Oliver just bloodied him up with. Even with 1980's TV picture quality you can see the marks on Borne's back from where he's whipping himself the chain and it's like he's playing Roddy Piper almost as good as Piper does and the dude is right fucking there. These Portland arena shows are right at the top of my holy grail list watching this set. Fuck could they sell a match. I'd very happily pay hundreds of pounds if someone out there somewhere had footage of them. Six and a half stars!_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the 1990 WWF Timeline with Bruce Prichard atm. Its good. But one little bit of info I found interesting, was about Colosseum Video. Turns out, it was a collaboration between Titan Sports (aka WWF) and a PORN COMPANY :lmao. WWF provided the content, and the porn company distributed it under the Colosseum Video name .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Revival vs The Club on Main Event is worth the look. It's abbreviated for what we know a more "complete" match of their's would look like, but damn if it isn't a blast in a half in the sub-7 minutes we get. Club works babyface (omg) & Revival is uber heeling it up. WWE, let Revival format all their TV matches like this. Look, it wasn't even long and it clicked. Please. It's all I ask. Luke Gallows getting a hot tag in 2017. oh yeah, loved that sight.



Brye said:


> Someone on here a long time ago recommended I watch Beach Blast '92 and their recommendation was great. Absolutely love Rude/Steamboat and Cactus/Sting. Six man tag, Pillman/Scotty and the main event were pretty enjoyable too.
> 
> Also, how do people here feel about the Nakamura/Joe matches? I watched them again recently and I'm just not all into them. Kinda overly long and while the wrestling itself is clean and everything, I wasn't really feelin' it.


Big fan of the Nakamura vs Joe matches. Maybe not the TV ones (tbf, I still haven't seen them in full, only the clipped editions that were shown before they aired the full house show NXTs) but the two Takeover matches were some of my favorite stuff last year.

Beach Blast '92 forever :mark: Part of my ego wants to claim I rec'd it. Along w/about 4 other people I'm sure b/c who doesn't want to encourage anyone to watch that PPV? So grand.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> The Revival vs The Club on Main Event is worth the look. It's abbreviated for what we know a more "complete" match of their's would look like, but damn if it isn't a blast in a half in the sub-7 minutes we get. Club works babyface (omg) & Revival is uber heeling it up. WWE, let Revival format all their TV matches like this. Look, it wasn't even long and it clicked. Please. It's all I ask. Luke Gallows getting a hot tag in 2017. oh yeah, loved that sight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that I think about it, it was absolutely you, or you were at least one of the people that recommended it haha. :mark:

Shit, they ran Revival/Club on Main Event?! I'll have to check that out.

Now they just need to start letting Summer wrestle on there if they're not gonna put her back on regular TV yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Aye. Kind of blew my mind, too. Main Event hasn't been so iffy this year, thanks to lots of appearances by the Cruiserweights. But stuff like Revival vs Club - for the first time ever, no less - is def a rarity.

She's still employed? Guess they're pulling a Paige w/her and waiting for the contract to run out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Angle's and Jericho's original documentaries. Neither were released on DVD or are on The Network.

- Vic


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Aye. Kind of blew my mind, too. Main Event hasn't been so iffy this year, thanks to lots of appearances by the Cruiserweights. But stuff like Revival vs Club - for the first time ever, no less - is def a rarity.
> 
> She's still employed? Guess they're pulling a Paige w/her and waiting for the contract to run out.


She had a career threatening neck injury in August last year and just got cleared (according to Meltzer) in early May. I'm hoping that's not the case and they're just waiting for the right time to bring her back, but they easily might just be waiting it out. Although she's been backstage every week for the last two months and I feel like they wouldn't have her there if they were just going to release her.

It sucks because before the injury, she was doing really well. And she's far more entertaining than some of the women they've got on TV right now, imo.

I may never get to see Summer/Mickie.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal get into wrestling just so you can be the next "Playboy" Buddy Rose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gotta say I'm really looking to Great Balls of Fire this weekend. The build has been really good for almost everything and the card looks great on paper.

Lesnar/Joe :mark:
Reigns/Strowman Ambulance Match :mark:
Banks/Bliss (Y)
Rollins/Wyatt
Neville/Tozawa (Y)
Cesaro & Sheamus/Hardyz 30 Minute Ironteam :woo
Miz/Ambrose one more time
Enzo/Big Cass

Pretty loaded card imo. Not even sure if there's enough room there for Balor vs. Samson.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1998, Bill Goldberg defeated Hollywood Hogan to win the World Heavyweight Title on Nitro from the Georgia Dome in Atlanta.

*#ChampionVsChampion*




Edit: 

Here's the long lost Fatal Four Way promo from Backlash 2007!

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*CM Punk vs Ryback (WWE Raw 7th January 2013) (TLC Match) (WWE Championship)*

Man, I forgot about how much I enjoyed this. I'm not even a big Ryback fan but I thought he was very good here in his offense and the way he targeted Punk at every opportunity. Punk took some big bumps throughout too. Ryback used all his power to punish Punk, but Punk was tenacious and kept working from under and catching Ryback at opportunist moments. Never for long though as Ryback just decimated Punk any time he got near him.

Punk did take his fair share of shit in this match tbh. Some heavy bumps off ladders.










He got thrown over the top rope and through a table and just all sorts of nasty bumps. He kept taking his licks but kept staying in the match. Crowd were all over Ryback at the start with 'Goldberg' chants, but they were cheering him loudly as soon as he got near to grabbing the belt.

Then The Shield showed up and took Ryback out and dumped him through a table.

Within a month, Ryback was involved in this TLC and the excellent TLC Match with the Shield. Two of the best of this era tbh.

Such an enjoyable match.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Everyone pumped for the PPV tonight. The build up to the two main event matches have been absolutely fantastic. This could be a great PPV as pretty much every match interests me.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Vic Capri said:


> Angle's and Jericho's original documentaries. Neither were released on DVD or are on The Network.
> 
> - Vic


Where about? I can't find them.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Where about? I can't find them.


VHS only releases.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really enjoyed the PPV as a whole. Some of the finishes were a bit weak though.

Neville/Tozawa - ***
Rollins/Wyatt - *** 1/4 (nice win for Bray)
Enzo/Cass - SQUASH
Tag Team Ironman - *** 3/4 (was on the edge of my seat for the last several minutes and really happy with the winners)
Bliss/Banks - *** 1/4 (don't even mind this ending)
Miz/Ambrose - ** 3/4 (ready to move on from this feud now)
Ambulance Match - *** 1/2 (the post-match stuff was fucking hilarious, the match itself needed more SPOTS and VIOLENCE but was still good)
Lesnar/Joe - *** 1/2 (FUCK I thought Joe was gonna win this after the low blow. Wish he would've kicked out of the F5. No one ever loses to that after just one these days )

Slater won a PPV match and no one even knows how. :lmao


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Up and down show.

- As two top of the card guys Seth and Bray need to be having better matches.

- Enzo deserved something in the match given his recent mic work and overness.

- Any match that has guys getting 3 counts for moves that would normally barely get a 2 count loses me immediately. They do the same with 2/3 falls matches and go for what they perceive to be "drama" when really these types of matches don't need that as the final minute of the match will always provide that.

- When you have every man and his dog kick out of finishers in BIG matches the second someone doesn't it makes them look weak as it did when Joe didn't kick out of the F5.

- Roman/Braun is feud of the year and it's not even close. Great work from both and I am expecting Brock/Braun/Roman at SS.

Seth Rollins/Bray - **1/2
Enzo/Cass - *
Hardyz/Shesaro - DUD 
Sasha/Bliss - ***1/2
Ambrose/Miz - **1/4
Roman/Braun - ***1/4
Brock/Joe - ***1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got done watching the 2 matches I wanted to see. Ambulance match was ok, but a little disappointing. For a match like this I guess I was expecting some more SPOTZ, but instead we kinda just got Braun throwing Roman around for the most part. And the SPOTZ they did include kinda fell flat too, like the one with Braun going through the stage. Feel it should have been a Spear instead of just Roman pushing him. Finish was meh, came across as a fluke win for Braun. And then Roman got back out, beat down Braun and tried to kill him. When they kept focusing on trying to open that side door into the Ambulance, I was honestly expecting (or maybe just hoping) than Braun would smash it open and walk out. Wonder where they go from here. Keep reading about SummerSlam main event switching from Braun/Brock to Roman/Brock all the time. Braun just beat Roman, but Roman has fucked up Braun. Are they gonna have another blow off match on Raw before SS to determine who faces Brock?

And speaking of Brock... his match with Joe was pretty sweet. Joe murdering Lesnar before the bell was cool, and I was surprised by how much Joe got in during the match. Only 6 suplexes too! Joe looked like a fucking beast. Gotta say though, the coquina clutch spots all pretty much fell flat with fans barely reacting any time Joe locked it in. Looks far too much like an ordinary sleeper hold lol. Only 1 F-5 in the match was refreshing too, about damn time a FINISHER actually FINISHED a match without needing to be hit 4 or 5 times. And the finish definitely sets up a rematch between the two at some point, with Joe never really being able to fully apply the coquina clutch, as in wrap his legs round and fall to his back, and Lesnar essentially just got lucky by being able to counter into the F-5 OUTTA NOWHERE for a win. Lesnar has been added to the No Mercy PPV now, an extra date or something, so I could see a rematch happening there.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Yeah, pretty much agree. 

It was solid but it wasn't as good as their previous match. They really want to make sure there's proper history between these two before ending it don't they? As if, when they meet in years to come, they'll bring all this up as what started it. 

I can personally see a triple threat or fatal four way at Summerslam as potentially a way of getting the belt off Lesnar without him actually being pinned and then him getting a rematch at No Mercy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm not quite as high on Lesnar/Joe as others, but it was still a solid. It started out hot as fuck with that table spot, although if they'd have started with a brawl, they could have easily fit that spot in still in the middle of the match.

Joe looked good on offense and he got most of it too. I did think the clutch spots fell rather flat though and dragged the match to a halt somewhat, as the suspense wasn't quite there. Plus it does look like a normal sleeper when it's applied in that way. Lesnar at least was great at his selling though here.

The finish did sort of come out of nowhere, as Lesnar just got out the clutch and hit the for the win. Lesnar himself didn't really get much offense in himself tbh, but it made Joe look like a big threat. I didn't want a finisher fest, but a few more minutes then another F5 would have been nice tbh. But it looks like they're building a single F5 back up again.

I felt it needed another 5 minutes at least too IMO. It was a solid match that had/has potential to be better. Lesnar let Joe do what he liked but I felt it could have been more of an intense brawl given the build up.

Still some fun in it tho.

Lesnar was apparently very happy with Joe after the match too, so there's certainly a possibility this will continue at some point. Lesnar/Heyman obviously like Joe and have given him far more than most to try and get him over tbh.

They sold it as Lesnar surviving rather than the other way around too.


----------



## furyinbound (Jun 10, 2017)

Watching the Destruction of the Shield DVD. Reminds me of better times. The documentary was OK but it only goes up to Summerslam 2014 so the ending is pretty rushed and since there are three guys, they couldn't go too in depth. Honestly it's not one of the best, it doesn't capture the tone I was hoping, it mainly just gives these guys a quick introduction, covers a few matches and then says they are the future... Alright, but there is 2 years of stable work you are missing out there. They really need to make another at some point. Perhaps the Seth one has more to it. The matchlist contains pretty much everything you could want up to September 2014 though which is obviously why I am watching.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Joe vs Lesnar was a DUD. :lmao It was basically Brock vs Holly revisited. Only move Joe knows now is the choke? :lmao

Reigns vs Braun was crap. The finish/post-match was ludicrous and vintage WWE. They've now ruined this fun feud. Took them a while, but it happened. How is this angle going to be spun as anything BUT a double turn? Seriously. Reigns murders a guy and the guy gets up and walks away refusing attention b/c he's a tough "monster among men". WWE, get your head out of your ass.

Slater vs Hawkins had a match on WWE PPV and nobody saw the result. Uhh. Miz vs Ambrose had a match that was clearly gunning to end in 2 minutes, yet somehow ended up at 11 minutes. Bliss/Banks recycled the same cheap "i'm a heel so i'm going to leave" finish that Usos vs New Day just had on a PPV a few weeks ago. Then a babyface beats down a heel like an asshole. Bray & Seth did stuff. I'm sure they'll do more stuff w/each other 3 more times over, trading wins. Did that finish to Neville vs Tozawa actually happen or was I imagining WWE booking something so underwhelming/confusing? Go figure the match was lukewarm too, despite finally having the audience into it b/c it opened.

ugh die

Didn't mind the ironman. But who cares, the show peaked at Enzo's 10/10 promo anyways and didn't recover. Yet another terrible WWE PPV offering. Company is on a roll. You know, downhill.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

the big thing was Lesnar SELLING for Joe. That says a bit. He respects him, and reportedly he enjoyed working with Joe a lot. That bodes well for future matches down the road. Samoa Joe and Brock Lesnar were HOT AS FUCK tonight on Raw as well in their segment where Reigns was mostly a background character/cheerleader. That was intense and I don't remember Brock getting so into it like he was tonight since his return. Lesnar/Joe is money.

Reigns/Strowman needs to be built to a Last Man Standing match where they both kill each other for 25 minutes before killing each other in the Cell to blow it off, imo.

Wyatt/Rollins was pretty meh, Ambrose/Miz has long overstayed its welcome, tag titles were okay but commentary was trying waaay too hard to make it sound like a classic which, if you watched anything NJPW G1 Special, it wasn't even close. Not one bit. Sasha/Bliss was good but that might also stem from their real heat they have, but that's ok.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah the segment on RAW tonight with Lesnar, Joe, Roman, Angle, & Heyman was absolutely fucking CRAZY. I was pissing myself. :lol Must see. I so badly now want to see Joe get the rematch and actually win because he's been GREAT in this feud. :mark:


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Breaks my fuckin' heart that Vince enjoys watching Enzo get pummeled so much. I get that his size and sub-par ring skills are hard to accept, because they are for me too, but fuck me, that promo before the match with Cass was something else. The guy is *so damn good* on the mic that I just can't buy the idea of him becoming a manager/mouthpiece for someone anymore; doesn't even sound fair for anyone else to benefit from a silver tongue like that. 

Haven't watched anything else from Raw tonight besides the Reigns/Joe/Lesnar segment, and holy fuckin' shit :mark It's amazing how refreshing it is see something so simple as two guys staring each other down, forehead-to-forehead, and for it to feel so goddamn *real*. It's like it was palpable just how much those two wanted to jump at each other's throats. Heyman sold his fear of Joe perfectly, too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's been rumors of Enzo possibly heading to the cruiserweight division. I'd be for it because it would put more eyeballs on 205 Live and such but the guy just has to improve in the ring somewhere down the line. No way he could hang with Neville, Cedric, etc. Still baffles me that they broke the team up without ever putting a set of belts on them though. Cass is set for big things in his future. Just wish he didn't look so goofy and awkward on his way to the ring so I could take him more seriously. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> Yeah the segment on RAW tonight with Lesnar, Joe, Roman, Angle, & Heyman was absolutely fucking CRAZY. I was pissing myself. :lol Must see. I so badly now want to see Joe get the rematch and actually win because he's been GREAT in this feud. :mark:


the crazy thing is Roman was completely overshadowed last night, too. Well... maybe not crazy. But as soon as Joe's music hit, Reigns became the third wheel, which imo, should raise alarm bells backstage considering this is the guy they're still trying to push as the top face. I actually do like Roman, but Joe and Lesnar were the big deals in this segment and Reigns was a bit player.

just shows how fire Joe/Brock is tho and how much money there is in it that they could relegate someone who at one point did have quite a bit of presence and aura around him (imo) to being a third wheel.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*AJ Styles vs Kevin Owens (Madison Square Garden) (07.07.2017)*

Complete match. Excellent quality.


















http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-w...-square-garden-07-07-2017-a.html#post68907082​


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*WWF MONDAY NIGHT RAW TIME*

The night after Wrestlemania 14...let's get to it.

AUSTIN IS THE CHAMP. HBK IS DEAD. TYSON IS A CUNT. LETS GO.

YEEEEEEEAH

*CRASH BANG WALLOP*

JIM ROSS is ringside with FUCK NO FUCK OFF FUCK YOU MICHAEL COLE FUCK YOU DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE FUCK YOU

VINCE IS HERE. The fans HATE HIM. Brand new belt! Austin is here! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! THIS CROWD IS JACKED JR! SHUT UP COLE YOU DICK. STONECOL STONECOL STONECOL Austin is not gonna be corporate champion. Is he? NO. What, is he? Vincent says so! No? No! STUNNER TO VINCE. HAHA FUCK YOU VINCE. STONE COL STONE COL STONE COL HARD WAY GIMME A HELL YEAH HELL YEEEEEEEEAH

WHAT A WAY TO START OFF RAWW BAH GAWD BAH GAWD

Cole: How the hell is the WWF gonna OH FUCK OFF COLE YOU STUPID CUNT

Let's have a look at what happened FIVE MINUTES AGO YES WE KNOW

Vince is crippled.

*LOD vs. BORICUAS*
Skanky is here. LOD crush the Spaniards in seconds. LOD 2000? Fuck you! Horrible. Horrible.
Three cunts out of twenty.

KEVIN KELLY SAID 'BALLS' HAHAHAHAHHA

BAH GAWD ITS KURRGAN

*KURRGAN vs. FAKE UNDERTAKER*
KURRGAN wins with a claw. His hand is MADE OF GRANITE. He takes Brian Taker backstage for a chat with his hand on his head. OUCH! Careful there Kurrgan!

Later: Cactus Foley and Terry Chainsaw will defend the title tag belts! Stupid dumpster rules! VINCE RUSSO IS DUMB Part 1.

*JEFF DOUBLE J JAY AY DOUBLE ARR WHATEVER JARRETT with TEENENENSESNENEESEE LEE HAHAHAHA vs. SOME MASKED GUY OH IT'S A CRUISERWEIGHT*
BAH GAWD TENNENNEEESEE is on commentary and he says stuff. SHUT UP COLE FOR FUCK SAKE. Jarrett is a bigger man so he must win. OH SURPRISE REALLY? Thanks Tennesee Lee. YES WE KNOW. JARRETT WINS.
OH HERE COMES THE BLACK MAN STEVE I MEAN STEVE THE BLACK MAN STEVE BLACKMAN,,,and he STILL sucks in this exchange.

STONE COLD IS GOING TO PRISON! VINCENT MCMAHON IS SAYING 'you're going to jail'. GO TO JAIL YOU PUNK. YOU SON OF A BITCH. SON OF A WHORE. FUCK YOU. BAH GAWD.

VINCE comes to the ring: 'STEVE IS A CUNT AND I ARRESTED HIM!' Booooo!

THE ROCK IS HERE! THA NATION! THA NATION! THA THA THA THA THA! Shamrock?

MICHAEL COLE IS GONE HAHAHAHHAHA YES FUCK YOU COLE you stupid stupid stupid rodent faced little cunt
*
THA ROCK AND FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAROOQ vs. SHAMROCK AND STEVE THE BLACK MAN*
Tag team stuff. Fuck sake, Mark Henry is shit isn't he? Yes Tha Rock hates Faarooq. MYA VIA! SOME STUFF ABOUT FOOTBALL AMERICANS! JIM ROSS STOP TALKING ABOUT AMERICAN FOOTBALL. SPINEBUSTER BAH GAWD. THA ROCK WALKSED OUT!

BAHHOLY FUCK! THE NATION TURNED ON FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAROOQ! THA ROCK IS NOW *THA RULER* OF THA NATION!

I gotta say classic Faarooq quote: 'GIT YO ASS BACK DOWN HERE' Didn't work though guy.

IT'S ADVERTS.

LOL OH LOOK IT'S TRIPLE HUNTER HEARST NOSE HELMSLEY with *CHINA*. SHAWN DROPPED THE BALLS. SHAWN YOU STUPID BLOODY IDIOT.
OH FUCK IT'S THE 1=2=3=4=5=6=7 KID.
FUCK YOU HULK HOGAN AND FUCK YOU ERIC BITCH OFF. KEVIN NATCH AND SCOTCHALL!!!!! Mmmmmm mustard! Mmmmmmmm asses and breakfast! I'M HUNGRY STOP IT YOU ASSHOLES. SUCK IT SUCK MY COCK! SUCK MY DEGENERATION EGGS! DEE EGGS! DEE EGGS! DEE EGGS! YAAAAAAAHHH! Suck my cock! COCK!

COCK!!!!!

SABLE STILL IS HERE AND SHE HAS TITS! *MASSIVE TITS! YES!*

...oh and marc mero...

OH LOOK ITS VAL VENIS AND HES COMING ALL OVER YOUR FACE LIKE A MASSIVE COCK HAHA VENIS PENIS VENIS PENIS VENIS PENIS

It's LOONA on the mic with SVBLE on the mic....oh fuck my face. Why? WHY??? WHY///// EEEEEEEEEVENING GOWN MATCH what the fuck is that? The first one to WHATEVER LETS GET SOME TITTAYS OUT HERE MOTHERFUCKERS GET SOME TITTAYS OUT YEAH THATS RIGHT TITTAYS TITTAYS TITS TITS TITS
*
TITS*

Okay...back to normal WWF programming:

Luna: 'SLUT SLUT!!!!!'
Sable: 'Fuck you cunt"!!!'

*TACKY MICHYNOOOKU vs. MARK MERRRROO*
MERO punches his cock a million times OH LOOK SABLE TITS TITS TITS TIT SITT TITITIITITITIITITIT TITS!!!!!!!!
BAH GAWD it's three other Japanese guys attacking Tacky!! BLUE WORLD ORDER! WAIT NO ECW! SECURITY YOU SUCK! TACKY IS DEAD! REMEMBER....*TITS*!

*break*

DAN SEVERN? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? WHAYYYYYYY????? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....

*HEADBANGING PUNKS vs THA BRAND NEW SPARLKING MIDNIGHT EXPRESS*
Sorry Jim you can't even make this work. Bob and Bart WIN THE NWANWANWANWANWNANWA TAG TITLE TITLES. 
SEVERN KILLS THE GREEBOS! KILL THE SLAPHEAD METAL CUNTS!!! He's a BEAST!

*break for poo*

AUSTIN IS STILL ALIVE VINCE IM GONNA KILL YOU

OH SHIT ITS KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE AND POLE BERARER. IN MAH DREAM AH SAW THE RING WITH FIRE YADDA YADDA YES WHATEVER YOU FAT CUNT WHATEVER YOU FAT FAT FAT FAT FAT FAT FAT FATTTY silly MAN. KANE VS TAKER IN FIRE MATCH! Yes FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE. Where is Taker anyway? HE HATES FIRRE!!!!!

Russo you are a stupid fucking mong.

*STEEL CAGE: TERRY CHAINSAW AND CACTUS FOLEY vs. NEW AGE BUMLAWS*
Tag titles on the line.
DOGG MENTIONS JUDAS PRIEST! GO DOGG!
FUNK IS STUCK TO THE CAGE. ITS THE DEEEEEEEEE EX CREW! THE KID IS HERE! CHAIRS TO THE HEAD! CHAIR!
CHAIR!
CHAIR!
BAH FUCKIN GAWD!
THE WORM! YES, I KNEW IT! THE ROAD DOGG INENTED THE WORM, NOT YOU SCOTTY TOO HOTTY!

FUCK YOU SCOTTY TOO HOTTY! REALLy, FUCK YOU! YOU FUCKING LITTLE PIECE OF SHIT!
SCOTTY TOO HOTTY...heh...stupid twerp.

DEEEEE EGGS help the Outlaws and they win the tag titles.

Poor old Foley gets KILLED in the ring. CHAIRS and PEDIGREES all over his face. Poor guy. SOMEBODY HELP FOLEY FOR FUCK SAKE.

DEEEE EGGS IS NOW FOUR STRONG.

END OF THE SHOW. 

TUNE IN SOON FOR ANOTHER SHOW HAHAHAH. YES GOOD!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are the Nakamura/Joe matches?

Takeover Toronto
Takeover Brooklyn

They had one in Japan didn't they too that was shown on one of the weekly shows? Or was it Australia lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> What are the Nakamura/Joe matches?
> 
> Takeover Toronto
> Takeover Brooklyn
> ...


It was a Steel Cage match from Australia. Taped it on 12/8/16 but they aired it on 1/4. Looking at cagematch, they also had another match that was taped on 12/3 at a house show and they aired it on the 12/7 episode I think.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> It was a Steel Cage match from Australia. Taped it on 12/8/16 but they aired it on 1/4. Looking at cagematch, they also had another match that was taped on 12/3 at a house show and they aired it on the 12/7 episode I think.


Yeah, they had a match in Osaka that I think aired on 12/28 from what I can see.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Jarrett's documentary is surprisingly good!

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well I didn't expect to see Bobby Fish vs not-Tommy End this week on WWE tv this week. But I did. And it was a good time. Unsurprisingly given their similar styles w/the MMA/martial arts background, they meshed well. Black Mass finish was 10/10. Fish got obliterated. They announced Fish as his "debut", although I'm unsure if he's signed or not.

AoP vs Heavy Machinery was the fun smashy-smashy BEEFfest I knew it would be. Short & sprinty, plenty of room for a rematch down the line. Otis not budging an inch on either Akam or Rezar ruled. Then he knocks them down w/ease & actually THROWS them around like they don't wear near or at 300 lbs each. Awesome, awesome sight. I would have rather had this at a Takeover instead, but I'm fine w/Aop vs Sanity. Bit of a bold move going for heel vs heel on what is basically the "NXT WrestleMania" each year.

Mention these in passing, liked Asuka vs Cross Last Man Standing, Roode vs Strong, & Black vs Ohno over the past weeks, too. When NXT doesn't have a Takeover upcoming, you can tell when they start to pack the shows w/long memorable matches again.

holy shit @ some of these ULTRA green dames they've put in this Women's tournament, though. What in the heck are they thinking? Filler spots or not, good grief. We're supposed to be taking this seriously. Or I assumed that to be the case. C'mon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally back with a new 5 Matches With!!! This month, its THE MIDNIGHT EXPRESS http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-midnight-express/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> Finally back with a new 5 Matches With!!! This month, its THE MIDNIGHT EXPRESS http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-midnight-express/












:done


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm so smashed and i've got almost all ppvs from most years. what's something from 2004-2008?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wrestlemania 23 maybe.

Join me and watch Fall Brawl '98 instead :jones


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

pretty sure i've got that too


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Midnight Express/Southern Boys from GAB. Still one of the best tag matches out there. Just after the start of the match, the Express are on the outside and you can hear Cornette say to someone in the crowd:

"Why don't you sit down and wipe that ugly from your face, you stupid pig faced moron"

:cornettefu

Classic Corney.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched *WCW Fall Brawl 1998*










Fuck it's bad. No honestly. It's bad.

Saturn/Raven was a pretty good end to their long feud at least. Jericho/'Goldberg' was the second best match of the night. Considering it was a parody, says it all really.

Disco/Wright vs Bulldog/Neidhart opened the show

Shit.

More loud "We want Flair" chants being the highlight.

Jericho/'Goldberg' was of course a funny piss take. It was a shame as Jericho wanted the actual Goldberg to squash him here but Goldberg wouldn't play ball and went hunting instead.

Did Vince watch this before coming up with Gillberg I wonder.

Jericho's parody entrance with Ralphus still makes me smile and at least he tried to make all this entertaining. Jericho once again being the shining light in WCW in '98 and he deserved more.

Miller/Smiley was just a short filler match. Just something you'd see on Thunder.

Scott Steiner/Rick Steiner.

So 2 months after they were supposed to face each other, we finally get the match and the feud still isn't finished and once again, Rick is made to look like a fool. They do the Bagwell neck injury angle here. You know when he legit broke his neck a few months before? Yeah well they run a faux version here, which goes on for 10 minutes whilst the fans collectively do a loud bullshit chant as they can see right through this.

So after 10 minutes and being carted off to an Ambulance, Buff and Scott attack Rick because cal suprese....Buff is fine!!!! Never???

The Steiners had a quick brawl first before the bullshit started and the crowd was hot for that portion before they decided to run the stupid 'injury' angle. So this feud goes on.

Sigh.

Juventud/Silver King.

Meh. Nothing special and again, just a standard, short Thunder TV match. Juvi did do a very nice reverserana tho.










Saturn/Raven.

Long feud culmination here as if Raven lost, then the flock would have to disband. It's Raven rules of course, so anything goes. Kind of a slow first few minutes but then it ramped up and ended up being really good. Match of the night, which on a dogshit PPV as this isn't saying much but it was still a fine feud blow off. 

Hennig/Malenko.

So this is a straight up singles match for this feud as they already had a cage match on Nitro.

Yeah it's WCW.

Again, just meh. Malenko tries with targeting the leg of Hennig before interference from Rude leads to a Malenko DQ win.

Scott Hall/Konnan.

Fuck this shit. 

For starters they are incorporating Hall's real life issues with alcohol into this match.

Hall gets in the wrong ring (remember it's war games later so there's 2 rings setup) and staggers around like he's drunk or at least pretending to be.

Wish I was drunk watching this shit.

All this shit went on and fucking on and on.

Fuck this shit. 20 odd minutes of hell with entrances included.

Just before the main event, you know the big WCW/NWO war games match that was actually pretty much a singles match as the winner would go onto face Goldberg for the title.

Yeah.

Well it was announced that on Nitro - the night after Fall Brawl - that it would be Sting/Goldberg for the title.

SO WHY THE FUCK IS STING EVEN IN THE WAR GAMES MATCH FOR A CHANCE TO GET THE COVETED TITLE SHOT IF HE'S GOT ONE ANYWAY IN 24 HOURS~~~~~~!!!!!!!!???????? He should have just stayed at home. Or oh I don't know,

THEY COULD HAVE DONE STING/GOLDBERG ON THIS PPV. Yeah that would mean Jericho probably couldn't do his troll job and Bill would have to ditch going hunting but fuck it.

You can also now win the match by pinfall, before everyone is in the ring. No idea why this even a team war games match tbh when it's pretty much every man for himself considering THERE'S A TITLE SHOT UP FOR GRABS.

We get a very short glimpse of a Bret/Hogan staredown in this that should have felt big in a context of a war games, but of course it's just inconsequential. The match soon descends into the Warrior/Hogan stuff so the title is pretty much forgotten until DDP pins Stevie Ray to win the match and get the coveted title shot.

Oh and Bret still sold the slapjack shot from Stevie Ray even though it missed by about a million miles :lmao

Thank fuck it's over.

Ah well, Ric Flair is nearly back :flair3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

need a recommendation for years between 83-90, what are some standouts for wcw and wwe at this time, even if it's not a big 4 ppv


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starrcade 1985
Great American Bash 1989


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm going to go watch great american bash 89, card looks great :mark:


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

WWE Battleground 2017

Usos/NewDay - ***1/2
Nakamura/Corbin - *3/4
Women's Elimination - *3/4
AJ/KO - *
Cena/Rusev - *1/4
Sami/Mike - *1/2
Orton/Jinder - DUD

The finish to AJ/KO was the worst finish to a WWE match I have ever seen. This PPV was possibly the worst this century. Crazy how RAW can be so good at the top of the card and SD so awful.

Xavier Woods should take some credit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You guys all know how positive I normally am towards the current product, but fucking christ Battleground was the worst PPV I think I've seen in years. I don't think I'd call anything from the show "good" except for maybe Usos/New Day but even that had a ridiculously excessive amount of nearfalls. Cena/Rusev made me wanna scratch my eyes out. Surprise appearance from Great Khali was the highlight of the show. Owens winning the US Title back is fucking eye roll worthy. Stupid.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Tag Titles: ***3/4
Nakamura/Corbin: **
Women's: **
Styles/Owens: **1/4
Cena/Rusev: *1/2
Zayn/Kanellis: **1/4
Orton/Mahal: DUD

one of the worst shows I've ever willingly watched.

Smackdown is such garbage now. Wow. How did we go from AJ/Cena/Ambrose to this crap? How are AJ/Owens having the matches they are? I mean... I know Owens has been pretty lackluster since last year, but this is absurd.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Battleground sounding worse than Fall Brawl '98 :jones


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably the only fun I had was w/the intended filler match that was Zayn vs Kanellis, but I guess after Styles vs Owens & Cena vs Rusev, I was just glad to see Sami Zayn and him kind of get the crowd to react to something again. But naturally he'll continue to do nothing, so whatever.

For as bad as the rest of the matches were, Usos jobbing was basically the topper to me saying this night was a fail right off the bat. WWE, killing something hot when there's no reason for it. Ugh.

laughing at Smackdown kind of doesn't get old, as far as running jokes go. So yet another dreadful Smackdown PPV since it became a brand again. They're perfect in that regard. Amazing consistency in failing month by month.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I reached my breaking point. I was going to just skip the show and cherry pick what got praised but I ended up watching it. Or Up to AJ/Owens anyway. Usos/New Day was a match in 2017. Pointless until they started doing highspots and nearfalls and then it got a little interesting. Camerawork on that superkick to Woods was great. One of The Usos wrestled in a hoody. Nakamura/Corbin sucked. Well I say that I spent the match laughing with my brother about Ronald McDonald's cameo at the Utd/Madrid match last night so who the fuck knows. I saw this coming with Nakamura a year ago. SD Womens division has been pure garbage since the split. Not one good match and horrific booking post Mania. Naomi has been champ for four months now and done but beat Lana. Charlotte is a bit part player while Naomi, Carmella, Lana and Natalya get featured ahead of her. I don't even know what to say. Becky Lynch hasn't done anything of note besides lose to Alexa Bliss for the last year now. Owens/AJ was garbage and where I tapped out. Owens matches in general are garbage though. Finish was just atrocious. It was at that point where they broke me with all these finishes that don't matter. Owens won the title but AJ clearly had his shoulder up so it's another forgettable match that just doesn't matter. Then I saw what was left on the show and I was like fuck this. I could have spent 90 minutes watching Roddy Piper promos instead of this. Tapped our and watched Corrie and Eastenders instead. Good move. Craig, Lisa is back and Mary and Norris are getting married! I had no idea the remaining matches were apparently dogshit when I tapped out but that was good to read. Flicked through Jinder/Orton. More wrestling playing elaborate chess games. There would be a time where I'd smirk at Khali but it's not even laughably bad now. Jinder Mahal, The Great Khali and The Bollywood Boys are running Smackdown and Charlotte is out in the cold while they do Naomi vs Natalya at Summerslam.

I'm skipping these shows from now on unless I actually want to see something. I'll just read the results and if it spoils something like Reigns/Strowman then so be it. There's just so much other stuff I could watch instead of this every other week. Even something like a good AJ/Owens match I just don't need to see. Especially now that fitba is starting back up. Maybe the Raw shows have been half decent and if they run a strong card like Extreme Rules I'll watch unspoiled but I'm at the point now where I'm just not bothered about making the effort. I'll probably break that for Summerslam because the 4 way could be great and anyone could win which is the only hook for WWE I have left now. Probably skip most of the rest of the card. Jinder can get to fuck. Naomi/Natalya obviously. Raw Womens match will probably be skippable but I might watch as long as it's not Alexa/Nia. Unless Dean/Seth/Miz leads to something out they can get to fuck. Whatever Owens does can fuck off. Revival/Hardys possibly but I skipped through their match on Raw last week because I just don't need to see Matt and Jeff do a workrate match in 2017 even against Dash and Dawson. Cass/Show can go in the bin. Cena in a nothing match will be nothing and in a big match will be garbage so that's a sad exclusion. Nakamura/Corbin can fuck off. Neville/Tozawa anywhere else I'd watch but in WWE what's the point. So maybe just the main event. 

Sign up to nwaondemand.com and watch everything on there instead people. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

These four will fucking destroy the Barclays Center :done


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889661971707998208


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

The original Punjabi celebration.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just bought Royal Rumble tickets! :woo Have always wanted to go to the Rumble more than any other PPV (including Mania) and my god I'm excited. Roman better not win in Philly again. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On paper the 4 way should be a collision course of fun. But at the same time, I'm legit not expecting anything (despite a general sense of excitement from the 3 guys not named Brock Lesnar) b/c how can anyone have any form of expectations w/WWE today? Look at how lame that Fatal Five Way match was from Extreme Rules for example. When that should have been a wild affair, it was as generic as can be. The upcoming triple threat match for RAW on Monday will be my test run. If those 3 kill it on TV, then maybe, just maybe, there'll be hope for a truly memorable PPV main event.

I'm feeling the same w/Nakamura vs Cena on Smackdown too. I care, but realistically, am playing it by ear on how good it will be. Kind of humorous that the end game is Jinder, though. Cena vs Nakamura, winner gets Jinder Mahal. If this was 2012 I'd be baffled. More than I still kind of am while happening circa 2017.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The four way at SummerSlam _should_ be boss and I'm looking forward to it. But at the same time, there's some trepidation there because this is WWE. Just give them 15 minutes to do something interesting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Rock/Mankind/Shamrock triple threat cage match from Breakdown. Still a fun match, maybe not as good as I remember it being tho. It picked up once Mankind/Shamrock started double teaming Rock. Then the crowd came alive for Rock's double people's elbow spot.

Amazing how at KOTR 3 months ago, the peoples elbow was getting zero reaction. Crowd were hot for Rock here and esp for the elbow. Pretty funny how he turned face just like that on Raw a couple of weeks before this PPV too. I know he got a good reaction at SummerSlam but he was still a heel, then on Raw a few weeks later, the crowd loved him and that was that.

Think he pins Taker the night after Breakdown to give him that big babyface win.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Jarrett's documentary. Click the picture to play.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been enjoying the Flair/Bischoff feud that much, i created a DVD set off it all



> Ric Flair vs Eric Bischoff: The 1998 WCW Fued (2 Discs)
> 
> Live Sources Used.
> 
> ...


:cozy

Posted it in case anyone wants to use the listing for reference purposes.


----------



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

Brock said:


> Been enjoying the Flair/Bischoff feud that much, i created a DVD set off it all


Awesome. You made an actual DVD of this or just have everything listed from the Network?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Boy Wonder said:


> Awesome. You made an actual DVD of this or just have everything listed from the Network?


A DVD. As the Network doesn't have any Thunder's up.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wow, look at that, a Styles vs. Owens match that didn't suck.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I don’t think I’ve watched an episode of SDL since that garbage MITB do over episode but I figured with the Styles/Owens and Cena/Nakamura matches I’d tune in again. 

Speaking of matches individually starting with Styles and Owens, I thought this was okay for a TV match. Obviously they hold back for these free matches and work around commercials with it running for only around ten minutes with a shitty finish but I actually thought there was more fire here than in their proper Battleground match, Owens really putting over how much it means to him to get that US Title back and hold onto it. Especially in that awesome backstage explosion, where he referenced the fact that WWE referees appear to be made of glass. 

I will say though that I have a real issue with this feud. Firstly, why is it for the US Title? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to swap this feud and the Jinder/Orton feud around? Secondly, why are Styles and Owens wrestling weekly for the US Title? This makes no sense in kayfabe and also, why is no one else interested and wanting to get involved? Then finally, I don’t get why, in a roster so stacked like WWE’s is, feuds go on for so fucking long and effectively sit in a holding pattern for months. This happened with Rollins and Owens for the Universal Title on Raw too and despite loving both performers individually I think it is one of the worst feuds in recent memory and I’d argue Styles and Owens is up there with it at this point. 

A lot of dead air in the middle after this point up until the Rusev/Orton segment. Orton, the foreign heel slayer. Gassed Rusev’s promo was garbage, the timing for the music hit was completely off but then Orton came out and I had no idea this guy was so over. 

Then talking about the “Dream Match”… this match was really sluggish for a ten minute match and given that both men are so charismatic individually, I think their in ring chemistry was lacking. Hilarious seeing Mahal in his sky box though, so far from the ring you literally couldn’t see anything. 

What an odd SDL SummerSlam Main Event all round though. Cena/Mahal writes itself and was seemingly the end game all along, with just a few weeks until SummerSlam what can you build out of Nakamura and Mahal? And also wow…John Cena put over Nakamura in a big way, I love modern John Cena. I wonder though if plans will have changed now Nakamura almost killed Cena?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day, Bret Hart defeated The Undertaker to win back the WWF Championship at SummerSlam 1997 from the Continental Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, New Jersey.

- Vic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Killer episode of Smackdown.

Styles/Owens was really good and far better than their Battleground match. Greater sense of urgency and good action. Still points removed from the stupid ass finish though but those cutoff kicks from Owens looked nasty (*** 1/4). It's unfortunate that I don't care about the next match because the booking's been so dumb. I guess Shane being the ref will add some more entertainment to it but it's pretty clear that Owens will get "screwed" again and that'll lead to KO/Shane somewhere down the line, which I would've preferred to see at Summerslam tbh.

Rusev & Gable damn near stole the show if it wasn't for the main event. Smartly worked match from Gable and Rusev had to end it as quickly as he could when he got any chance to breath. Great stuff. *** 1/2

No idea what to think of Orton vs. Rusev at Summerslam. They have nothing for either of them so why not just pair em together I guess. We'll see if they can deliver.

I thought Cena vs. Nakamura was fun as shit and had a great atmopshere. Everything after the last commercial break was fantastic. Nakamura's strikes were all on point and they both looked really motivated. Finishing stretch had me guessing what would happen next and Cena took that suplex SO WRONG. I was scared for his life.  Nak certainly no sold that last AA but it's a minor quibble. I loved it. *** 3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, Rusev/Gable was a great little TV match TBH. Gable was really good on offense and on his comebacks and it was fun seeing him essentially throw Rusev around.

Cena/Nak did have it's moments and to me it still had that big feel, despite it being on SD. There is certainly hope for a top PPV match down the line. Just a shame they had to have it first on TV TBH. Despite it being only a taster.

JBL and co constantly shouting 'DREAM MATCH' was annoying tho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy fuck Cena vs Nakamura was embarrassing. Cena, idk what his deal is if he's not trying or he's just kaput as a worker, but wow, this is bad.

How many times does WWE have to run terrible Styles vs Owens matches down my throat? I'm sick of it. It's like Styles' once seemingly flawless curve of good/great matches is being forced to fall off now that he's working vs a guy in Owens he has absolutely no chemistry w/. The only match of their's to not have a hilariously bad finish was of course the match on the house show.

Rusev vs Gable was legit af. Leave it to WWE to crush my dreams by having the pinnacle of "i don't care" Orton come out following for a random match that'll only further do nothing for Rusev. But a damn good TV match before the bleak truth. Gable is already so much more over than Jordan. And will probs do nothing for a bit. *sigh*

Reigns vs Joe vs Braun triple threat from RAW was as fun as I had anticipated, too. But gosh, this company really needs to shape up. So god damn bad in too many areas. A few parts do nothing for what is a poorly handled sum of a company. And please, PLEASE stop saying BOOM or BAM at _every. single. high impact move_. during the commentary + REPLAYS. They killed pyro and increased on this. These are the company decisions as of late.

Oh, and while Breezango needs to die, I enjoyed seeing Twin Peaks references on WWE TV. Even if some of it was disingenuous, b/c a show that has a brain has to get some passive aggressive insults by the wrestling company that lacks logic, but the attention to details within the show were p. good, so there's that. Wondering how many people were laughing in the crowd b/c they got the references or what.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Basically what I got from HayleySabin's post is that they should replace the announcers shouting boom or bam with pyro whenever a blow hits.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or have the announcers shout BOOM and BAM in place of pyro.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On this day in 1997, Lex Luger defeated Hollywood Hogan by submission to win the WCW World Heavyweight Title on Nitro from The Palace in Auburn Hills, Michigan.

- Vic


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Fucking loved Luger growing up. That crowd :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Basically what I got from HayleySabin's post is that they should replace the announcers shouting boom or bam with pyro whenever a blow hits.


Or during a tryhard near fall. Lets max out the pyro budget, imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some really good shit on RAW tonight. Honestly enjoyed the whole episode and that Toronto crowd made it interesting. 

Reigns/Strowman LMS - ****
Cesaro vs. Ambrose - *** 3/4

That main event was totally awesome and Cesaro & Dean had a real good wrestling match. Even the two women's matches were really solid.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark: loved the main event. (only thing ive watched so far)

:braun throwing the chair :lmao


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

In honor of The Hulkster's birthday, here's his debut match at Madison Square Garden in 1979 against Ted Dibiase.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Made it to and watched Survivor Series 1998. The while purpose of the event was of course centralised on the booking, there's actually a good little match in Xpac/Regal in there tbh. Until the shitty finish.

Was still entertaining watching the Vince/Austin stuff and The Rock getting his moment.

Clean shaven Mankind in a Tuxedo too :done

Pls don't tell me there are any more Taker/Kane matches this year :mj2 LET IT END


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Any star ratings for the new Angle DVD?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Takeover: Brooklyn was fantastic as usual. They always seem to deliver despite whatever expectation level I'm at. 

Gargano vs. Almas - ****** (MOTN)
AOP vs. Sanity - **** 1/4*
Black vs. Itami - **** 1/2*
Asuka vs. Ember Moon - ******
Roode vs. McIntyre - **** 3/4*

Andrade got a win! :mark: Those two totally tore it up in the opener. I loved seeing the destino variation (I'm just gonna stick with calling it that) and the la mistica from Gargano leading into the submission. Incredible match.

Legit surprised at other results. Did not expect Sanity to win the tag straps and Asuka fucking retaining AGAIN was a shock. Hell of a show though. ADAM COLE BAY BAY! And reDRagon!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*FINALLY*

(bay bay)

I spazed out. :mark:

Excellent show, to boot. NXT always puts on their best of the year w/the Brooklyn shows. As they should w/it being their "WrestleMania". Chicago was a total one match show w/Bate vs Dunne, so having all 5 top to bottom give me something to love, they're rightly back on par per special. Glad to see it. 

Andrade winning is dope. Logic said he should have won given Rosita is now trying to steer him in the proper direction, etc. It's a joy to see Johnny enter w/o you know who and I'm totally behind him now. Right place for this match to be. Right guy goes over. Andrade pumping out the Naito-lite stuff is only going to make me like the taunts more. Hot start. 

Aop vs Sanity was just really fresh to me. From the surprisingly feel-good Sanity win (and apparently face turn..?) to AoP w/one of their smoothest, confident showings to date. It all meshed nicely. Who knew Wolfe could get down for such a fun hot tag. Red Dragon team debut was cool. Part of me got bummed at the beatdown on Young & Wolfe b/c it was a good moment, but it all made sense in the bigger picture. I liked this match a whole bunch.

EASILY the best match KENTA has had since joining NXT by miles, leaps & bounds. Which isn't hard b/c he's been in a crop of massive shit for 90% of his run, but hey, I was pro-heel turn and so far, it's been giving him that missing depth of personality he needed. He didn't need to go over here, so it was wise he didn't, but his great showing - and subsequently fucking Black up p. well - did wonders for his place on the roster. Black's building up a great bunch of matches as of late. I liked his squashes, sure, but now he's having full blown interesting competitive matches, which is is adding that next layer. Between this or vs O'Reilly as my favorite yet. This may have it beat due to its straight forward smash em up dream match success. BLACK FUCKIN MASS. 

Joshi match to the max. Moon & Asuka totally have super chemistry. A mega sprint the whole way, awesome near falls. The Eclipse that was hit did seem a bit out of nowhere, but it didn't taint the believable idea that it wouldn't secure the W. Asuka dominating (although the gimmicky bit w/"the streak" is tacky. Screams main roster nonsense.) in wicked fashion. I joked that I guess at this point if Kairi Hojo does win the Mae Young Classic, that'll probably be Asuka's next "big" challenge. Unless they stick w/Moon getting another shot. They might, but who knows. I'm cool w/Asuka still being champ as it is. The post-match bit for Moon seemed forced. Like they were trying to redo what DIY got last year after The Revival. Sure, I'd call this match "great", but eh. No need to try and make this a needed thing each year at a Takeover.

I already know plenty won't care about Roode vs McIntyre. I liked it a bunch. Snug & competitive. It felt desirable for Roode to be at such a constant ebb and flow w/Drew throughout considering how "even" they seem to match up w/one another. Compared to say Roode vs Nakamura or KENTA in that, he was out of his element vs the strikers, and had to apply limb work to isolate. Here, it was a nip and tuck situation, given way by any chance either one could find an opening to strike. Some may see it as just trading moves, I got more out of it than that. A good meaty heavyweight main here. Crowd wasn't fire, but again, not too surprised considering. Well, except for the post-match that is. No point in being vague any more:

ADAM COLE IS HERE. THE JUMP HAS BEEN MADE COMPLETE. Strange I'm so gung ho about him away from ROH/New Japan and knowing he's in WWE territory, and how shithouse WWE is. Idk, maybe b/c it's a progressive step in his career I'm excited to see him in the new environment. I've made no bones about how I feel about NXT at least, so while here - w/the trio apparently going to be a big factor - I should get my fill on this alone before any - and likely - future disappointing developments. Cole vs Drew already seems lined up to happen. Sometimes it pays off w/those you truly enjoy getting the limelight. I'm def into these two having a series of matches vs each other.

Had myself another hell of a time w/a Takeover. (Brooklyn, especially.) Keep it up, plz. Tomorrow's anticipated six hour suicide watch will test my limits to places I'm scared they can go. There's always this to look back on...


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Show was fine but nothing I'm too excited about after finishing it. Gargano/Almas was an ok match made good by a hot crowd. Finish was awesome except nobody seemed to tell Mauro or Nigel it was a DIY shirt WHICH IS THE WHOLE FUCKING PLOT. Nigel lowkey mentioned it as a possibility but I was dumbfounded it didn't get the big Michael Cole OTT sell. AoP/Sanity got fun at the end but Sanity are in an instant turn off for me. Eric Young being a master manipulator because he tagged in instead of his massive monster is lel. I'll never get over anyone looking at The Wyatt Family and thinking we need a knock off version of that in NXT led by ERIC YOUNG. Heel/heel dynamic was odd. I'm pretty annoyed they beat AoP like that after all they did to protect them during the DIY matches and that was how they lost. Fish and O'Reilly better get a new name and not ReDragon. It's a capital D because it's the first and last letter of both words you see. Cucks. Itami/Black was decent but really hurt by the crowd not caring about Itami who was working real hard. Black has something but it's not working from underneath in long matches so he's death on the main roster. Asuka/Moon was great. Great selling. There was a bit of a dull stretch between the arm work being let slide up to the first Eclipse which made that spot feel a bit out of nowhere but it didn't exactly hurt the spot. Great near fall off that and the superkick. See the difference when you protect a finisher and then kick out of it. Even compare it to the main event where Roode's DDT is whatever and when Drew kicked out of that. What does poor Asuka have to do to impress someone on Raw or SD to sign her god damn it. Main event stunk. Is it too soon to say Drew is becoming a bit of a bust? Match was nothing and then Drew just reversing the 3rd DDT into his god awful finish and then just getting up to celebrate was ugh. Drew dwarfed Roode so working with Cole will be interesting. All my opinions on Indy dudes are now like 4 years out of date but Cole was great once upon a time. I randomly watched a Cole/Lethal match last year and it fucking sucked so who knows now. It's kinda hard to care about these NXT debuts now because there's no oh I hope they end up doing well. All of them are Indy names working the same audience on a bigger scale that will be pushed in NXT regardless so there's no satisfaction of someone like Gargano making it to the top. And then they get to the main roster and it all gets ruined anyway so how do I get invested. Mauro was way more annoying than he ever was impressive too. Him and Nigel doing the BAY BAY shtick at the end made me despise Cole's existence. I can remember Percy Watson having two lines which is double his run last show so maybe he gets 4 lines in next show and by 2023 he's an actual functioning commentator.*


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

The live music made this show feel special. Anyway ratings

Johnny Gargano vs. Cien Almas - ****1/4
AOP vs. Sanity - ***1/2
Aleister Black vs. Hideo Itami - ***1/4
Asuka vs. Ember Moon - ****
Bobby Roode vs. Drew - ****

Such a great show. Triple H is smashing it. Bring on Summerslam!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Excited for the fact that it's Summerslam tonight because it's Summerslam, but not really for the match card. The fatal 4-way mark, RAW Tag Title match (could honestly steal the show), and Sasha/Alexa are the main 3 I'm looking forward to. Also Nakamura/Mahal to an extent if Shinsuke actually wins the belt and because hopefully he gets an epic entrance. Rest of the card I really don't give a shit about. Styles/Owens is guaranteed to have some kind of fuckery in the finish again. Cena/Corbin, Balor/Wyatt, and Orton/Rusev are all useless and thrown together. Corbin and Rusev NEED to go over in those two. Balor/Wyatt will not help either one of them at all.

13 matches in all and Sami Zayn can't even get on the card but Axel & Bo Dallas can. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Almas/Gargano: ****1/4
AoP/Sanity: ***3/4
Black/Itami: ***1/2
Asuka/Moon: ****
McIntyre/Roode: **3/4

now on to Summerslam...


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

That Fatal Four Way :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They had six hours. *SIX HOURS*. And yet, to no surprise whatsoever, it was still a _one_ match show. And that was on the "Kickoff" idk about, what, 4+ hours ago? :lmao Usos, you're too good for these guys.

:mj4 at me calling Brock being carted off even before the match started. Pathetic. Great way to kill all drama on RAW weeks ago by saying he'd quit if he didn't win. Ugh. 

Dreadful PPV. The running jokes never end w/main roster WWE.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

New Day/Usos - ****

Cena/Corbin - *3/4
Naomi/Natalya - **1/2
Show/Cass - DUD
Orton/Rusev - DUD
Bliss/Banks - ***1/4
Balor/Wyatt - ***
Raw Tag - ***3/4
AJ/KO - ***
Nakamura/Mahal - *1/2
Fatal 4 Way - ****1/2

Up and down show. Main event and Braun Strowman killed it


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Usos/New Day was borderline MOTYC imo. Simply an amazing tag team match. It almost makes me happy they got moved to the pre-show so they had 20 minutes to work rather than 7-10 minutes on the main show. It was amazing. I'd have to look at my list, but I'm pretty sure it's the best main roster match of the year. The Usos are simply too good. I love everything about them. 

RATINGZZZ for this crappy show:

Six-man tag: **1/4
Neville/Tozawa: **3/4
Usos/New Day: ****1/2

Cena/Corbin: **1/2
Naomi/Natalya: *3/4
Show/Cass: DUD
Orton/Rusev: DUD
Bliss/Sasha: **1/4
Balor/Wyatt: **3/4
Raw tag titles: ***1/2
Styles/Owens: **1/2
Mahal/Nakamura: **
Lesnar/Reigns/Joe/Strowman: ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The show fucking SUCKED as a whole. No getting around that at all. I just watched 6 hours of programming and very little of that time was worth it. The first match started at 5:30 and there was all of like 80 people in the arena. :lol

Usos/New Day - *** 1/2 (Wanna go back and watch this again but I enjoyed it for sure)
Naomi/Natalya - *** 1/2 (Honestly loved this match. Far exceeded expectations)
Cesaro & Sheamus vs. Rollins & Ambrose - *** 1/2
Fatal 4-Way - **** 1/4

Out of the what, 13 matches they had(?) those are the only ones I'd ever go back and watch. Cena/Corbin was fucking ridiculous as was Orton/Rusev, Sasha & Alexa had a forgettable match with a weak finish, Styles/Owens was chalk full of fuckery & I'm so ready for AJ to move on, and Jinder/Shinsuke was a legit DUD (I remember all of nothing from that match).

Also would've never remembered that Balor/Wyatt even happened without reading these reviews. :lmao Big Show vs. Cass was AWFUL as well. Weak ass show, just like last year's edition.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I stayed up to watch this for one reason and one reason only, but fuckern warz what a chore to get there. Main show was the absolute pits. 3 hour show full of crap with one reason to watch is bad enough, but SIX HOURS is insane. Loooonnngggg show with loads of bad meaningless shit and nonsense = cesaro having to pop a beach ball in order to snap the crowd out of their trance staring into the abyss... And that's before we even get to a Jinder Mahal wwe title match :woytf

But yeah, BRAUN fucking ruled and seeing him attempt to murder lesnar was almost worth it. Shit like that is why i still love wrestling. I was marking out like a little kid at christmas discovering a power rangers dragonzord (dating myself here) underneath the wrapping paper watching that all go down. You know you're invested then and when you're panicking every time your guy is out of the ring while someone else is in peril. Emotional investment. THAT IS WRESTLING. 

Shame the match fell off a cliff after brock was stretchered out, turning into generic "my turn, you break up a pin, your turn, repeat" paint by numbers wwe bullshit. The start though, wow, that was total CHAOS with braun looking like a star. If they had gone home then with braun dragging lesnar into the ring for the win he would have been made. Fuck going 15+ minutes just because that's what you're "supposed to do", that crowd would have ate that up. If you cut out everything else afterwards what would we have lost? Braun bleeding from that gnarly reigns steps shot? Can't think of much else. Goes without saying that lesnar winning sucked the wind out of the crowd AGAIN, but then anything other than joe or braun going over was going to. They sensed change, were fully receptive and on board, but didn't get it. Trust wwe to be so tone death. Even a divvy like me could see that braun should go over lesnar at summerslam months ago in my shoddy half arsed on the fly btb'er. Seriously, how do they not see the obvious? A missed opportunity that should be rectified asap, possibly in a braun vs brock match at no mercy, which looks like total money based on tonight. Could have done that ANYWAY even with braun winning tonight. Ffs at the absolute crowd killing, clueless, out of touch, utter clown shoes at wwe.


Other GOOD stuff:

Usos vs new day. 

NOLO KING sign. - 1 point for no 'lawls' reference. 

Nice but ultimately flat shield tag title win. 

I saw a daddy long legs in my bathroom during a piss break. Daddy long legs >>> jinder. 


That is all dvd thread. You get ZERO star ratings and you will like it! I HAVE SPOKEN :braun


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:braun is taking that title at no mercy brothers


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was ranting too much in the lame same ol, same ol main event to give a damn about Braun killing anyone. b/c this company sucks THAT much and w/Lesnar there, I was waiting for the gaping hole of logic & predictability. Not like he had a shot in hell to win, anyways, so meh. Except for the part when Braun ran through Joe over the announce table. Now that spot ruled.

I'm not gonna hate on Jinder too much b/c despite the difference in clear talent between him & so many others on the roster, they all had matches of equal or LESSER value just as much as him, so fuck 'em all by this point. Plus, my prediction ratio was off the charts successful, so Jinder winning while everybody else picked Nakamura put me on a high. The little victories are all I got.

Fun fact: Cole said DEMON KING about 5-6 times before the bell rang for their match in the brief moment of post-Balor entrance & start of the match. Fitting to associate demons w/something so contrived & obnoxious that it seemingly won't end, to take on the form of punishment. Welcome to hell. This is more memorable than the idea they had something resembling a wrestling match.

90% certain Carmella will cash in on Smackdown. They're still in Brooklyn. That's the kicker.

Is it a good or bad thing that Sami Zayn & Luke Harper weren't on this show? I'm unsure now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

harper may have got the rusev treatment and sami would've jobbed too, so probably a good thing perhaps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tis a bittersweet scenario for sure. Sad part being "sweet" falls under "not making the PPV is good on account of not having the chance of being buried".

I guess one thing there is to ponder, in regards to the main event, was that Reigns was finally pinned by Brock. If No Mercy does indeed end up being the idealistic clash between Brock vs Braun, I wonder if this will open up more wiggle room to a proper championship switch. Instead of the rumored & groan inducing idea of holding off on Brock dropping the gold until WM vs Reigns in the rematch. If WWE decided to let Brock/Reigns culminate in a multiman at SummerSlam (or even have a match at WM, but non-title) and just go off in the direction of letting Braun officially get his time on top. While Brock himself is the hard sell that he'll not be beat before one year, WWE is the kind of promotion that'll have a major change on a show, simply b/c of the location, regardless of B-PPV status. Look at Backlash in Chicago, this will be in LA.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:braun pls

I haven't marked this hard for someone in a good while. Genuinely thought tonight was the night.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

They should hold off on Brock dropping the title until Wrestlemania. He'll have been champ for a year, and Braun can have his crowning moment and be the new monster. He looked absolutely dominant last night, and if they commit to Braun then they don't have to rely on Brock as much to be the guy who fucks everyone up. Braun is there every week to be dominant and unbeatable.

Braun vs Brock at Mania is MONEY.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Andre said:


> I stayed up to watch this for one reason and one reason only, but fuckern warz what a chore to get there. Main show was the absolute pits. 3 hour show full of crap with one reason to watch is bad enough, but SIX HOURS is insane. Loooonnngggg show with loads of bad meaningless shit and nonsense = cesaro having to pop a beach ball in order to snap the crowd out of their trance staring into the abyss... And that's before we even get to a Jinder Mahal wwe title match :woytf
> 
> But yeah, BRAUN fucking ruled and seeing him attempt to murder lesnar was almost worth it. Shit like that is why i still love wrestling. I was marking out like a little kid at christmas discovering a power rangers dragonzord (dating myself here) underneath the wrapping paper watching that all go down. You know you're invested then and when you're panicking every time your guy is out of the ring while someone else is in peril. Emotional investment. THAT IS WRESTLING.
> 
> ...


*Do what I do now buddy and stop watching the crap just because it's a WWE PPV. 

Stuck to my word and only watched the main event. I'll watch the two tag matches at the weekend I guess. Main event was a lot of fun. Thought some pacing issues kept it from being like a REALLY great match but it was definitely great. Hot open up to Lesnar getting stretchered out was awesome. Braun now compared to 12 months ago is remarkable. Dude could be the hottest babyface they've had since Bryan if they booked him like a red hot babyface. But instead he's kinda heel, kinda let the fans decide and you just limit your returns when you don't get all in on anything. Match was lacking a little until Lesnar came back, partly because you're just waiting for Brock to come back and you don't buy into anything until then. Thankfully he wasn't gone for long. Fair due to Brock too who worked his ass off in this and for once earned his fat paycheck. Guy worked harder and took more punishment than anyone in the match. Joe felt like an afterthought. They did such an awesome job building Lesnar/Strowman up that it almost was a shame that you didn't get much of anything else like Brock/Joe and Braun/Joe. Reigns/Lesnar was kinda blah and nothing like 3 years ago. Brock pinning Reigns clean was woah, especially when Joe is in there. Joe/Reigns and Brock/Braun coming out of this are both great directions. Match felt like it lost steam by the end which I put on Reigns getting more of an apathetic reaction than a man fuck this guy reaction. Best WWE match this year but it's saying nothing. Not as good as AoP/DIY/Revival though for instance or DIY/AoP Ladder Match.*


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

seabs said:


> *Do what I do now buddy and stop watching the crap just because it's a WWE PPV.
> 
> Stuck to my word and only watched the main event. I'll watch the two tag matches at the weekend I guess. Main event was a lot of fun. Thought some pacing issues kept it from being like a REALLY great match but it was definitely great. Hot open up to Lesnar getting stretchered out was awesome. Braun now compared to 12 months ago is remarkable. Dude could be the hottest babyface they've had since Bryan if they booked him like a red hot babyface. But instead he's kinda heel, kinda let the fans decide and you just limit your returns when you don't get all in on anything. Match was lacking a little until Lesnar came back, partly because you're just waiting for Brock to come back and you don't buy into anything until then. Thankfully he wasn't gone for long. Fair due to Brock too who worked his ass off in this and for once earned his fat paycheck. Guy worked harder and took more punishment than anyone in the match. Joe felt like an afterthought. They did such an awesome job building Lesnar/Strowman up that it almost was a shame that you didn't get much of anything else like Brock/Joe and Braun/Joe. Reigns/Lesnar was kinda blah and nothing like 3 years ago. Brock pinning Reigns clean was woah, especially when Joe is in there. Joe/Reigns and Brock/Braun coming out of this are both great directions. Match felt like it lost steam by the end which I put on Reigns getting more of an apathetic reaction than a man fuck this guy reaction. Best WWE match this year but it's saying nothing. Not as good as AoP/DIY/Revival though for instance or DIY/AoP Ladder Match.*


It's the smart thing to do, but if they do strowman lesnar i wont be able to resist staying up, although i will probably just have the rest of the show on in the background while i do something else. The reason being exactly what you said with the braun comparison to bryan, as the last time i cared this much about anyone succeeding was bryan in the build up to mania 30. Punk mitb before that. Austin 98-99 before that. It's rare that i'm invested on that level, so i have to try and enjoy it while i can. Then again this is coming from someone who used to sneak downstairs to watch wwf attitude era ppvs with the volume on low at the expense of school work on mondays. Old habits! 

I really don't know what they're trying to do with reigns anymore. They've done a terrible job with him since the start of the most telegraphed golden boy push of all time but at least it was obvious he was SUPPOSED to be the next ace for a while. Now he's the guy that takes the pin but is still presented as the ace in terms of promotion, but with the really weird 'any reaction is good' bullshit disclaimer. It's annoying because i genuinely enjoy reigns, but this direction is weird and he really would find a new lease of life as a heel. Reigns with vince at his side playing up to the fans' perceptions of reigns being the chosen one would be money, for example. Ever seen those ridiculous 'bring it to the table' wwe propaganda pieces? I would love to see jbl say "reigns is the guy people pay tickets to boo" after last night when braun/brock staredown had the crowd red hot, with LOUD goldberg style strowman chants filling the arena (lmao at reigns needlessly cutting those chants off early TWICE btw, i guess only a selfless vet would have had the sense to let that play out a bit). All the while, reigns never felt less relevant. His entire push has been a bizarre mess.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Cena/Corbin: **1/2
Natalya/Naomi: ***
Cass/Show: Half a star
Rusev/Orton: DUD
Banks/Bliss: ***1/4
Wyatt/Balor: ****
Shield/Shesaro: ****1/2
Owens/Styles: ****
Nakamura/Mahal: (didn't see full match, can't comment, I blame shitty internet service)
Fatal Four Way: ****1/2

Summerslam had a few very bad matches to start out, and Usos/New Day should NOT have been on the pre-show. With that said, Summerslam had a lot of great matches and a lot more good than bad in my opinion. Don't know why people continue to shit on it acting like it was some kind of disaster and a one match show when it was very far from it. Calling the fatal four way the only noteworthy match is straight up laughable.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW sucked aside from that Hardys & Shield tag (where's the call ups? the shake ups? the SHOCKS?) but THIS! :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899816716556840961


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Corey said:


> RAW sucked aside from that Hardys & Shield tag (where's the call ups? the shake ups? the SHOCKS?) but THIS! :mark:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899816716556840961


I actually like Roman, but this right here should be the Wrestlemania main event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Chad 2 Badd said:


> I actually like Roman, but this right here should be the Wrestlemania main event.


I agree to an extent but I really think they should strike while the iron's hot and put the belt on Strowman. Timing seems perfect and the crowd will 100% accept it.

Swear to god though if Roman wins the Rumble... ugh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I literally don't give two shits for this match. (skip one, go to two. Makes more of an impact.)

Brock is just going to win anyways, so fuck off. In a company full of APATHY & trash around every corner, Lesnar is up there w/Orton now in regards of what I can desperately live w/o. I don't have to live in a DIY bullshit world anymore (thank you terrible ladder match), but things aren't complete yet.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Believe in :braun CODY :mark:


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

Finally i watched *WWE Great Balls of Fire*, another meh show from WWE

Kickoff: WWE Cruiserweight Championship
Neville (c) vs Akira Tozawa **

Bray Wyatt vs Seth Rollins **1/4

Enzo Amore vs Big Cass 1/2*

RAW Tag Team Championship - 30 Minute Iron Man Match
Sheamus & Cesaro (c) vs The Hardy Boyz ***

RAW Women's Championship
Alexa Bliss (c) vs Sasha Banks **

WWE Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs Dean Ambrose **

Ambulance Match
Braun Strowman vs Roman Reigns ***

Curt Hawkins vs Heath Slater N/R

WWE Universal Championship
Brock Lesnar (c) vs Samoa Joe **1/2

Overall Rating: 4.0


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Roode to be...babyface? :walphtf

It's not so out of reach, as he can be a effective one, but it's not what I had anticipated once he'd be called up. Especially w/how natural he fit into the smug, Flair-lite idea while on NXT. Suppose they figure he's so over w/his entrance & all that, they'd just go w/it. Who knows.

Guessing Dolph will be fed to him, and that's why he's back on TV. Hinted at it in his promo by some of the things he zinged being "a spotlight" & "a fancy robe". 

Gable & Shelton tho. vs Usos, I'm cool w/that. Part of me is like "ahh, at no more singles Gable", but it's better than being lost in the shuffle. Which is incredibly easy to happen to many on Smackdown.



Kenny said:


> Believe in :braun CODY :mark:


I do. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best. Regardless of quality, if Braun makes out it as champion, I'll support it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Fuck I forgot I still haven't watched New Day vs The Usos from Summerslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's worth it for the Alley-Uce to the floor spot, alone. (and all of it, of course)

It's not paranoia :banderas


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> It's worth it for the Alley-Uce to the floor spot, alone. (and all of it, of course)
> 
> It's not paranoia :banderas


i didn't care much at all for usos as faces but as heels they've been great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. The same scenario w/me. The spot oriented ra-ra babyfaces push was trash and not fitting for how they operate. They're finally in a position where they're getting to be more of themselves & feels as if they could have some freedom to work matches like they want to. Plus their promos are p. great, too. Was an instant switch once they turned last year.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Usos have been a revelation. One of the very, very few reasons I'll seek out Smackdown weekly. Probably my favourite acts in the WWE today aside from Strowman and Joe.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

First 4 episodes of the Mae Young Classic are up on the network. I watched the first and it was really fun.

Kay Lee Ray vs. Princesa Sugehit - ***** (Great sense of urgency and good action. Perfect way to open the tournament)
Serena Deeb vs. Vanessa Borne - *** 1/2* (No idea how we didn't get a nip slip from Borne )
Shayna Baszler vs. Zeda - *N/R* (Short and sweet)
Abbey Laith vs. Jazzy Gabert - ***** (This Gabert woman is fucking intimidating. She looks like the female version of Ivan Drago. Crowd was really into this too)

So that made me wanna watch the 2nd episode and... that was a bad idea. Terrible show. 

Mercedes Martinez vs. Xia Li - *** 3/4* (They said this was Li's first wrestling match EVER and she didn't do that bad at all. Short match but I enjoyed it. I'm still not sure what the hell Mercedes is but I refuse to believe she's a real woman :lol)
Rachel Evers vs. Marti Belle - ***
Rhea Ripley vs. Miranda Selinas - ** 3/4*
Mia Yim vs. Sarah Logan - *** 1/4*

Will watch episodes 3 and 4 as the week goes on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm p. hyped for Mercedes Martinez in this. She was frequently one of the few consistent talents on the indies in the all female promotions that pulled her weight over most. Feels like she could go far. Wouldn't be surprised if WWE tries to pair her up vs Serena, considering they have some history. Kind of snickering though at the idea that WWE releases the first four "weeks" of this tournament at once, meanwhile last year's CWC was a drawn out process w/lots of hype behind it. tbf, it was never going to mean nearly as much. At least they're not trying to force it down our throats. I mean come on, they put Marti Belle in this. L.O.L. I'll have to find some time to watch these soon.

I hope Kay Lee Ray doesn't still suck. (b/c hot Scottish babe w/RED hair = me having to want to watch) But, you know, we'll see.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched episode 3 and 4 of the Mae Young Classic. Some of the stuff is really not that exciting to watch, but luckily it had the best two matches of the 1st round:

Piper Niven vs. Santana Garrett _(Episode 3)_ **** 1/2*
Kairi Sane vs. Tessa Blanchard _(Episode 4)_ **** 1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched all four of the Mae Young Classic shows. It's an easy enough watch to cram, but the tournament is poor & as bland as I expected. Only two matches have caught my eye overall (Sane vs Blanchard & Ripley vs Salinas) Rest were either garbage or decent, albeit ultimately forgettable. This second round better shape up. Night four was the "best" of the bunch.

Thoughts on Nights 1-4:



Spoiler: Mae Young Classic



*Night One:*

1) Kay Lee Ray vs Princessa Sugehit started off well. Like if this was 3 minutes, I'd probably call it solid & engaging. Then they both clearly got lost and had no idea what to do following its hot start, lost the heat, and fell flat. (at only 5:58, too, lol. Kay Lee Ray still leaves me unsure on her abilities if she matters or not. 

2) Serena Deeb vs Vanessa Borne, oh dear lord. Way to make six minutes feel like an eternity. Why did they drag it out? Deeb closing in for the spear early on felt like the right time to end it, considering she's going over & returned to the company. Attempting to try and make the Samoan cheerleader dame be a threat worked against it. Awful match, but not quite as horrendous as Borne's debut on NXT if you can believe it.

3) Shayna Baszler vs Zeda wasn't even anything. A squash like this, combined w/the showing of RONDA GOD DAMN ROUSEY at ringside only shows WWE's massive transparency on how far the singular person will go in this tournament. Make it dramatic guys. Baszler's MMA dominance has an appeal, but she's still very green. You can tell. I wished they work on it, instead of thrusting what appears to be a big push coming her way b/c of her past. And poor Zeda. Dame is put in this just to be taken out w/o getting a chance to do anything. That's one big thing w/this tournament so far, it feels...arbitrary in a lot of ways. The CWC managed to have a lot of people leave a mark. This is p. one sided in some regards, or even certain dames who go over don't look impressive in doing so.

4) Jazzy Gabert vs Abbey Laith was too short to be anything of note. Normally I'm not bitchy about duration, but this was def one of those matches that was building, only to be cut short as it was getting to something nice. Gabert left this looking good, I thought. Meanwhile I was underwhelmed by Laith. Interesting where as my track record w/both on the indies has been the opposite. Not that every match Kimber Lee (Laith) has had in the past has been good, but she's managed to stand out some. While I thought Alpha Female (Gabert) had potential, but really fell flat. Shame she's out early despite looking like the BEAST she should be. But hopefully there's a second chance following this. And that Laith's next match shows what she's more truly capable of. You'll read that similar statement a few more times in regards to who's in the second round. PS, I love the name Jazzy Gabert. idk why. It's fun to say.

*Night Two:*

1) Mercedez Martinez vs Xia Li was again, so much NOTHING. It was Li's first match, you could tell. Green to the point where all she got off was a few kicks and that's about it. They pussyfoot'ed around for most of the 3 minutes, until Martinez locked in a submission to end it. Again, already, Martinez goes over, but ultimately has a nothing showing in the process. I don't like that. I know she's guaranteed a second match now, but jeez, why wouldn't she just dominate if say Baszler did? Especially against someone who's only having their first match, could give it a shot, but be decimated by a woman who's been working for 16 years. The story writes itself. Unoffensive, but un-intersting.

2) Rachel Evers vs Marti Belle...fuckin' hell. Well, this is why I shat on Marti Belle to begin w/. Good lord, what TRASH. Evers is the greenest dame yet (talking can't even run the ropes green) and Belle is one of those who's been a consistent worker on the indies and still hasn't graduated beyond Torrie Wilson quality. Cheap roll up finish, too. Yikes. I was scared of this match when I saw the bracket. My instincts proved to be on the money. Worst match of the first round, by far.

3) I'm in love w/Rhea Ripley. What a babe. And w/her youth & lack of experience, she truly looked p. damn good in this. I'm not going to do that entire spiel where people see someone early and go "they're going to be the next big thing", but I wouldn't be surprised if Ripley takes to wrestling as naturally as anyone. Dropkicks were crisp, she was poised, had good fundamentals, all that stuff for potential to grow. I'm hoping she pans out. And did I mention I love her? Opponent Miranda Salinas, wasn't exactly grandiose, but by her work in this, I get the vibe that she could be a decent low card heel. She did this cool hair pull into a headlock spot that was better than anything say Marti Belle could dream of getting over, so that's a start. Felt this match did what the tournament should do - especially for two unknowns - make a mark in a little amount of time, and that's what it did. Had fun here.

4) Mia Yim vs Sarah Logan, bleh. There's no getting around it, Mia Yim sucks. Always thought she has. They trade moves and stuff for about 4 minutes before there's a finale where it kicks into some sort of an interesting gear. Namely by what Logan was bringing to the table. Of course she loses, and Yim kind of floats into the second round & I don't care whatsoever. At least Logan is signed (iirc, she is...) so there's more time for her in the future.

*Night Three:*

1) Toni Storm vs Ayesha Raymond was the pits. Raymond wasn't good, and Storm completely underwhelmed. Not to mention this finish was the second roll up of the first round. lol @ main roster nothing match finishes making their way into this tournament. Storm's entire presence is quite annoying, tbf.

2) Dakota Kai vs Kavita Devi was odd. Devi is Indian and LARGE. So she kind of did some things early on, but she's another green one, and stood around for the majority of this, while Kai - Kiwi indie alumn Evie - ultimately gets to hit two credible moves, before winning. So it's like they wanted to let Devi do something despite losing, and let the experienced one take her out w/little to no effort, and just wait to the second round to showcase something. Why? Not everyone is like me, for example, and has a track record of what Evie can do. The perspective of those watching this to see some new faces possibly can't leave matches like this too thrilled that the person who did very little is the one winning. Maybe I'm putting too much thought into WWE logic like I always do.

3) Bianca Belair vs Sage Beckett. Oof. Bianca Belair had another notoriously bad qualifying match on NXT to put her on my radar that her first round match was all but destined to be bad. It was. Real problem being - aside from the crowd being dead - was that Belair strikes me as someone w/a terrible attitude problem. Which I hate to see in a rookie. Every time Beckett went for a cover after hitting what mostly was credible offense, Belair would immediately kick out. Like we're talking barely one counts b/c she doesn't want to let the chick she's going to beat look good in any way possible. That really irritates me. Some Davey Richards-esque nonsense. All she could apply was some modern agility b/c she's "athletic" so whatever. Funny that she's got Sane in the second round. Doubt she'll be able to pull off that kind of egotistical crap there. Bad match, w/a truly awful showing for Belair. And god damn that hair whip move is the literal dirt worst. Having the same finisher as Serena earns a laugh too. WWE chose not to air it b/c they aired Serena's already. Don't they talk about this stuff? :mj4

4) Piper Niven vs Santana Garrett should have been better. It wasn't altogether bad, but really just another forgettable match w/quite a bit of phony sequences. I like that Viper (they call her Piper now. Get it?) is here & getting the chance. Familiar w/her in STARDOM, etc. Would have preferred her to play up to her size more. She showed how well she can move, that she can use her size to beat people, but when Santana is able to hit these overly flashy head-scissor spots and all of a sudden the fact that Niven has over 100 lbs advantage means nothing. The very idea of physics proves this shouldn't be accomplished. Made worse b/c it isn't as if Santana applied these in interesting ways that would work to shifting momentum so Niven could be taken down. Stuff just kind of happens for the billionth time. Why there are so many weak nearfall attempts in these matches, idk. Crowd suddenly gets hot when Niven survives another head-scissors (seriously), and I guess that'll be a thinly veiled sign like the match is noteworthy when it isn't. Glad VIPER - b/c I like calling her that - went over, at least. 

*Night Four:*

1) Candice LaRae vs Renee Michelle was admirable. Decent, nothing special, but I left it feeling like it went the right amount of time and did what it should. We all knew who was going to win this from the start. Popped for the Mustache Ride finish. Candice looked to have tightened up her game, too, which is a plus. Not everything looked fake. Which was one of her biggest flaws. Michelle is a new face, but I'll remember her. Half b/c she's another one who's really attractive, but also b/c she could possibly be p. solid. Her transitions into strikes need work, but the strikes themselves were landing fairly well. Good looking moonsault, too.

2) b/c I'm all about objectifying beauties that I want to see wrestle, Taynara Conti is another one I'm now gaga over. Not Rhea Ripley gaga, but good enough. As for the match w/Lacey Evans, another one that was mostly decent & effective. Sloppy in parts, but also p. scrappy. As if the identity of Evans' history being in the military vs Conti's Brazilian MMA background clashed in a battle of two head-strong, tough-minded people. For that reason alone, I did get enough of a kick watching this. Evans busting out a Jig N' Tonic for her finish was AHHHH kind of risky, although w/a memorable payoff.

3) Nicole Savoy vs Reina Gonzalez, ZZZZZZZZ. Snoozefest. Neither brought anything to the table. Savoy is labeled the "queen of the suplex". She didn't hit a single one in the match. A worthless 4 minutes.

4) WWE being bastards making me wait 4 shows to see the former HOJO, now Kairi Sane. To no surprise, she looked as good as usual in the match. Tessa Blanchard on the other hand, well, this was quite easily the best I've seen her. Not to oversell it, b/c it wasn't as if she had this star making performance, but in a match where Sane is going over, the big favorite to be in the finals & possibly win, she made sure it wasn't going to be one-sided. And it wasn't. Nor would I necessarily call it a carry-job. Blanchard had some good forearms & was a nice all around opponent to bump for Sane's very over offense. Good match. Only one I'd effectively label as such within the first round. I question why Blanchard was fed to Sane, meanwhile some others are in the second around. Guess the idea of a good debut for Sane was more important. No complaints considering this ended the first round on the highest note possible. Seems oddly out of the blue that Sane is all of a sudden widely known now, but whatever. I guess people caught on to Joshi in 2016 and I was dead not realizing it had happened. Sane's elbow is still fecking glorious. People are gonna be talking about that move for a while.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently waiting for this pack to finish 



> 01. WCW Debut with Air Paris Vs. Even Karagias and Jammie Knoble Thunder 12.02.01
> 03. WWE Debut Vs. The Hurricane Jakked 21.01.02
> 04. WWA International Cruiserweight Vs. Jerry Lynn The Eruption 12.04.02
> 05. TNA X Division Vs. Jerry Lynn Lo Ki and Psicosis Total Nonstop Action 2 19.06.02
> ...


:sodone


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> WWE Debut Vs. The Hurricane Jakked 21.01.02


Didn't realise he had a WWE match back then TBH.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Bret Hart Vs. Ted Dibiase had great chemistry!

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched more of the Mae Young Classic. Not much has changed, but some fun outings came about: Rhea Ripley vs Dakota Kai, Shayna Baszler vs Candice LeRae, & Kairi Sane vs Dakota Kai. Baszler vs Candice match, in particular, sticking out as something done really well in a short amount of time. Rhea Ripley totally has "it", and two matches alone was all I needed to notice. 

Other notes: Had a massive headache during Sane vs Belair, as the latter's continued stench of being an ego shithead was on MASSIVE display. Dumbass tried to not sell for anything Sane had to offer, and decided to drag the match out to nearly 10 minutes, too, ugh. That backfist she ate was sooooo satisfying. Sane's only bad match so far, but that was expected w/the unprofessional opponent. I already have my eye-rolling ready for anyone trying to tell me it was good b/c someone did a 450 splash.

Mercedes Martinez' fisherman buster finisher is great, but it's weird that it happens basically out of the blue so it has no heat for the way matches finish. Some of these second/third round matches ended like that. It's odd. You'd think they would let some of these finishes be more defined, but like the way they have uploaded the shows, all of it seems really rushed.

The transparency of The Four Horsewomen of MMA vs Four Horsewomen of NXT is laughable. It's like who cares. Same kind of goes in how they project that off of Baszler, but Baszler is cool to watch thanks to her believably as a dominate badass. Even better than w/her inexperience she's willing to take plenty of bumps. Even if in reality she could destroy all her opponents. I like that she's open to the give/take nature of pro wrestling. Seeing Mia Yim try to go strike-for-strike against her was hilarious. Not even close, but Baszler did try to sell it.

Surprisingly Rachel Evers had a p. solid showing in her second match. Green, undeniably, but you know, really the best she's looked to date. That's a feather in her cap after that horrid match vs Marti Belle in round one.

Candice appears to have got the WWE sprint down. All 3 matches were short, but rightfully contained. If she does get signed, she could do some good under a consistent string of that. Of course, can depend opponent to opponent.

Abbey Laith was p. disappointing in this tournament. 3 matches and she kind of did a whole lot of nothing. Piper Niven was almost similar, as I felt like she was restricted to only doing a bunch of splashes b/c of her size, but while her matches never translated into anything of note, she did have portions of matches where she got to bust out something better than average, so I hope she can get something beyond this. The finish vs Deeb, for example, was great. Never hurts to have another "big" dame on a women's roster.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

RAW

Cena/Jordan ***1/2
Jeff/Miz ***1/4
Show/BRAUN ***

Smackdown

Nakamura/Orton ***1/2

More great free to matches from WWE. It was nice to see Orton put his all into a match. Give these two 25 minutes and they will put on a great match. Also Jordan was awesome against Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saw it yesterday, and idk how long ago they filled it out, but FINALLY all the WWECW shows are on the Network. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Raw from the 21st December 1998, i had to rewind this bit a couple of times to make sure Lawler did indeed dropped the 'F Bomb' :lol


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So I just watched that Usos/New Day Tag Title match from the SummerSlam kick off. Being that it was a preshow match between two teams I have zero investment in, in a match that I also have paid zero attention to the build, I had no interest in watching this. However you read or listen or watch pretty much any piece of wrestling journalism you respect and this, other than the main event, is the match everyone is talking about. I don’t remember the last time a match in WWE was so universally praised and adored, so I had to see what the fuss was all about. 

And so, from watching from that perspective, I’m not sure whether the match necessarily lived up to the hype but the match did serve as a great reminder as to how good a wrestler Xavier Woods actually is, with him carrying a large portion of this. Spotted throughout were some fun exchanges, hard hitting action and the kind of double team action that suggests everyone in this match loves their indy wrestling but I think a lot of people ignore all the stop starting the match does between these moments, it really feels meandering and bloated at times.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> Watched Raw from the 21st December 1998, i had to rewind this bit a couple of times to make sure Lawler did indeed dropped the 'F Bomb' :lol


:lmao


----------



## JaysonF (Sep 7, 2017)

What's up people, I'm sure none of you remember me at all, I used to post on this thread fairly often. Apparently something changed awhile back with the site and I have been unable to login to my old username, "Jaysin", so I started this one. 

I don't have any reviews for any matches at the moment, but I figured I'd post this in here since there is a bit more traffic. I have been watching some old TNA shows from back in 05-06, and decided to get a couple of the "Brown Bag Specials" off their site. I got a few new DVDs for my collection, but ended up with a copy of Genesis 05 and Bound for Glory 06, which I already owned. I know this is the WWE section, and I posted this same thing over in that sub a couple days ago but no response. Anyway, if anyone would like either of those DVDs I'll ship them to you for free, just pm an address, not trying to make any money or anything and I know most don't like or care about TNA which is fine too, but thought I'd offer to anyone interested. You can search my old username and see I'm not some new guy, I actually did this same thing to someone in this thread many years ago with a Wrestlemania 24 DVD. Thanks!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel like there's more of a myth that Xavier Woods is something special, when in reality he isn't. 

but working tags = magic for a lot of guys, and it should stay that way. It makes Kofi Kingston not all the way shithouse, even pre-New Day. That's saying a lot. Buff Bagwell, too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 Matches With... Jose Lothario http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-jose-lothario/


----------



## Theszpress22 (Sep 2, 2016)

Big Cal's World said:


> 5 Matches With... Jose Lothario http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/5-matches-jose-lothario/


Looks like you found the NWAonDemand site. These are matches from the Paul Boesch library and yes Paul is the bad commentator but he does know his stuff but don't expect a Jim Ross performance out of him.

If you haven't already, watch these.

Johnny Valentine vs Bull Curry 1969
Terry Funk vs Harley Race 1977
Wahoo McDaniel vs Harley Race 1978
Wahoo McDaniel vs the Spoiler 1979
Nick Bockwinkel vs Tito Santana 1981
Gino Hernandez vs Chavo Guerrero 1981


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Theszpress22 said:


> Looks like you found the NWAonDemand site. These are matches from the Paul Boesch library and yes Paul is the bad commentator but he does know his stuff but don't expect a Jim Ross performance out of him.
> 
> If you haven't already, watch these.
> 
> ...


Seabs gave me links to the matches, so he must have the NWAOD site. So much classic wrestling I still need to catch up on though!


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Watched Raw from the 21st December 1998, i had to rewind this bit a couple of times to make sure Lawler did indeed dropped the 'F Bomb'


:lol

- Vic


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Didn't want to make a thread of this and i figured someone here would probably knows, does anyone know who's the giant that Goldberg did the jackhammer to into in this video ( @1:50 ) ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Didn't want to make a thread of this and i figured someone here would probably knows, does anyone know who's the giant that Goldberg did the jackhammer to into in this video ( @1:50 ) ?


Reese.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reese :lmao

----------

Last week WWE TV kind of produced a nice crop of matches that felt more out of the blue than usual. 

Nakamura vs Orton was p. good. Orton was motivated, and Nakamura meshed well w/him. Liked the counters to the RKO, avoiding it, all the while he found ways to blast Orton a good number of times w/knees before finalizing it. Even w/the commercial, none of this felt like it was missing a piece.

205 Live had Gulak vs Tozawa which I really liked. Gulak getting to work snug always helps, and Tozawa's smoothness + fact he actually has a decent crowd following helps as a solid contrast to Gulak. Unsure if this is going to lead to a series of matches between the two, but I kind of hope it does. Five way elimination match w/Enzo vs Kendrick vs Metalik vs Alexander vs Nese was p. damn great. Crowd was lit, actually responding very well, a great thing to see. Alexander is _really_ good, he's won me over since joining WWE. his stock moves rule, & the finisher is brilliant. More Metalik showings weekly is getting me pumped that maybe down the line he'll get more shine. Never a bad thing to see Kendrick look like a threat again, either. His Captain's Hook transitions are sooooo legit. The Enzo booking is a bit obnoxious, sadly. The lone drawback to an otherwise strong multiman match. He took bumps in this, which he no doubt always does, but I hate this "lets have him cheat b/c he's Enzo" bit. So he's not a workrate machine like basically all the other cruiserweights, so what? He can still win w/a FINISHER ffs. Almost as if they want him to be supposedly as annoying as he may be backstage. WWE loves their dreadful schoolboy finishes, I swear. There were like 3 this week alone.

Braun vs Show wasn't "amazing", but they delivered another hard-fought match where both clearly put the effort in. Less a surprise w/Braun, but great to see Show working hard to put him over one more time. Jordan vs Cena was mostly entertaining. Cena was hit or miss (not selling Jordan's crossface was god awful), but Jordan looked damn good. I'm digging his almost "young lion-esque" way of booking where he has to test himself vs established names on RAW. First Balor, now Cena. Finally Miz vs Jeff seemed to represent a nice sense of what the dynamics of wrestling can offer up for a TV match. w/that hot Nebraska crowd loving Jeff and hating Miz, it seemed to elevate everything about it. Miz is Miz, but I still say he has a quality about him that does totally work. The tossing out of the seconds, the teases, Jeff's never-ending bumping, then top it off w/an actual clean finish - for a heel no less - and this was kind of nice.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Usos and the New Day do it again. God damn, do I fucking love these guys against each other. Heel Usos are so god damn good and they bring out the best in The New Day.

Sin City Street Fight - ***3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol That Cena/Reigns match was so bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Miz/Jordan - ***1/4
Balor/Wyatt - **1/2
Ambrose+Rollins/Cesaro+Sheamus - ****1/4
5-way Womens Title Match - ***
Cena/Roman - *
Enzo/Neville - DUD
Braun/Brock - *3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Loved the tag title match and 5-way women's. Last 3 were either really bad or really headscratching.

I really don't get why they didn't put the belt on Strowman. There's probably never gonna be a better time and we likely won't see Lesnar again until January. No one will fucking care if Reigns gets built back up to challenge him again. NO ONE. 

Enzo winning is a joke... and not a good one.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

of what I watched

Ambrose/Rollins vs. Cesaro/Sheamus - ****
5-way women's title match: ***1/2
Cena/Reigns: ***
Neville/Aries: DUD
Lesnar/Strowman: DUD

god damn, first, Lesnar/Strowman was so disappointing after all the heat in their encounters building up to the match, and the result? Don't even get me started. I expected it after seeing the odds, but I was holding out hope, but silly me for thinking they WOULDN'T crowd Reigns yet again at Wrestlemania by going over Lesnar. I actually like Reigns, but WWE really dropped the ball by not capturing lightning in a bottle with Joe and Strowman in back-to-back months now. This is exactly why my interest is pretty much 0 in the product heading into the fall season, and Wrestlemania is already predictable for the Universal title.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

tag match was fucking fantastic. Cesaro :clap roud WHAT A WARRIOR. **** 1/4

roman/cena :lol

5 way womens match was great. enzo winning is a joke. they just buried my man :braun and killed his momentum with that garbage match. what was the point of building him up and building him up to lose like that. lesnar needs to fuck off. lesnar/reigns at mania...yay..:mj2 

miz retaining is great. got a good pop too. jason jordan is a lame geek imo. 

sick of this company. they get things going good in the tag division and womens but main event has to gear towards roman/lesnar while everybody else gets sabotaged.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lesnar winning was a foregone conclusion IMO and was expected.

The match tho sounds :mj2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

match is a DUD Brock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz vs Jordan was basically just do moves, but kind of watchable. Finish was the drizzing shits. Who gets pushed off of a school boy (or why do a school boy in the first place INSTEAD of your finisher when it comes from the back for Jordan - or both guys, actually.) and lunches DIRECTLY into the center to get so obviously punched? D'oh.

Bray vs Finn was about as much of a joke as the SummerSlam match. This one maybe a bit more, considering how poorly handled Bray is. Jumps a guy, a weak beatdown, and then can't even win. This may be the official note to the numerous "he's dead" comments. b/c he is. Bray Wyatt is just, he's done. Shame, but that's what the company did to him. Finn wins, probably will float around some more. He'll be the next random challenger whenever Lesnar returns. Then after that, more floating. idc.

Tag championship match is going to be unjustly overblown, but w/the clear legit damage to both Cesaro & Ambrose, it added a sense of grit to it, that managed to have them break out of their cookie cutter garbage format. For that, I enjoyed it. Nothing great or relating to the annoying commentary overselling it but, but a hell of an effort by those working hurt. I actually cared, which is something nothing else on this show can say they made me do.

Women's match was the usual mutli-women fluff, albeit thankfully not hot garbage. Stuff happens, Nia Jax eventually falls down and how can anyone buy into her as a threat when she never wins (lol WWE logic), and then eventually it has a heatless conclusion. Bayley returns just to get rekt by Bliss, clean, once again. Jeez. Forgettable.

Reigns vs Cena ughhhhhhhhhh. I'm glad Cena is showing the sign that he's done. b/c god damn, he can't work a match anymore to save his life. Immediately goes for finishers & then that's it. Hit a bunch of FU's and hope they stick. Random table spot. Someone wins. Hilarious enough that WWE were trying to inspire drama behind it when Nakamura took out Cena in about 12 minutes on TV clean, but I guess Reigns being "the guy" has to have an epic to do it. Whatever. About as bad as all their promos were.

Neville vs Enzo was pathetic. Justifiably hated. Enzo winning was the most obvious result of the entire PPV, even more than Brock. WWE has officially kind of made me hate Enzo now, too. Ever since he's joined the Cruiserweight division, dude has been unbearable. Claiming to be a face while blatantly cheating w/no shame. All b/c the company openly booked him to admit "he's not up to the caliber as the rest, so he has to "work smarter, not harder" in order to thrive". Nope. How about a babyface earns some victories by, you know, earning them? That's too much. All this Neville stuff and that's the result. b/c we can ignore the Tozawa stuff. As that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Brock vs Braun sucked and I knew it would. Brock vs Joe was a DUD. The SummerSlam 4 way was garbage. Now this. Again, whatever. None of us are surprised. Brock vs Reigns is happening. I said it wouldn't change since WM, and welp, now that Rumble is the real next destination (b/c Survivor Series doesn't mean anything) it's all but official.

This night earns a :monkey/10


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

The Apathy Era was in full effect last night.

I set my phone alarm and managed to catch the last three matches live, but it was wall to wall shit. Crap matches, nonsensical booking, lame stories all around.

Says a lot that I got more satisfying pay offs by weeding my garden, taking garden waste to the tip yard, cleaning my shed and patio during the week than I have with WWE in a looonnnggg time. 

Doing my back in operating a karcher for 4 hours straight >>>>>> WWE.

Not watching anymore until I hear from someone reliable ( @seabs @Obfuscation) that the product is tolerable again. Guess I'll be spending a lot more time in the garden for the forseeable future then...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Braun

:mj2

Yeah I was disappointed. I knew Lesnar was winning, that's wasn't really the issue. I thought the match started out ok but then just fell flat tbh. Crowd were dead and didn't seem to care about anything. Maybe the obvious outcome would explain that.

After what they did at SummerSlam, I thought they'd go that route again. Maybe do a table spot half way through or something. Strowman started out great throwing Brock around, but then the match seemed to plod along, with Lesnar doing the suplexes, then again, all of a sudden the F5 and that was that.

Braun is great but is still limited and that definitely showed last night. Lesnar isn't blameless either. They just didn't really produce much of interest and it felt like a rather damp squib when it was over.

Damn shame as I was really looking forward to it after Summerslam and some of the build up.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I can point you to all the things wrong with the booking and the match itself.

1. They wasted the suplex spot on Raw.
2. They played to the same formula as EVERY single Brock match. Strowman starting strong and then somehow weakening.
3. Inconsistency with finishers. Powerslam took out Cena and Reigns yet 3 of them can't lay out Lesnar.
4. One fucking F5? Seriously? 

Horribly booking. I'm actually disappointed Strowman agreed to the match going that way in all honesty. Sometimes you need to fucking stick up for yourself and play your damn character. No one booked like Strowman has should be being made a bitch like that.

The thing is if you was to ask WWE why they booked it that way, they'd say because Lesnar is Lesnar and they've already made Strowman look strong by beating Reigns, destroying Cena, having Lesnar leave on a stretcher and destroying him on Raw and how this loss doesn't hurt him, not realising that the loss WASN'T the problem, the fucking booking of it was.

You need Lesnar to win? Sure, that's fine. Have him snap Strowmans arm in the kimura lock, have Heyman cost him the fucking match, have the referee get knocked out and Lesnar destroy him with chairs and weapons etc. but ONE FUCKING F5? Fuck off out of here. That's me done.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

RAW IS BRAUN said:


> I can point you to all the things wrong with the booking and the match itself.
> 
> 1. They wasted the suplex spot on Raw.
> 2. They played to the same formula as EVERY single Brock match. Strowman starting strong and then somehow weakening.
> ...


I agree 100%. The problem is that WWE always have Brock vs Reigns in the back of their minds. So yeah, they can make Braun look great in the build but when it's time for the match they make Brock win in convincing fasion with one F5. I imagine it's because they want it to be even more impressive when Reigns doesn't go down to one F5 and finds a way to win.

Braun should totally have told them to go fuck themselves when they presented this shit to him, because it did him no favours at all.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Whilst I was seriously pissed off at the DUD of match and DUD of booking that was Brock/Braun I actually think the PPV was really good. A lot of people hating on Cena/Reigns but I loved it. We had a strong opener where Jordan was excellent, Bray had his best match in years & a very good tag match. I feel people often base their opinion of a PPV as a whole on ONE result or ONE match which is extremely hard on the other competitors on the show.

Jordan/Miz - ***1/4
Balor/Bray - ***1/2
Shield/Bar - ***3/4
Fatal 5 Way - ***1/4
Cena/Reigns - ****
Neville/Enzo - DUD
Brock/Braun - DUD

The way the show went it actually reminded me a little of Wrestlemania 21. Extremely strong undercard with a great 'big match' & then it died. You really have to question why they had the title match main event if it was being booked as it was.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Yeah that did kinda sucked. Card got me interested again but it just ended up being more reaffirmation that even if the build is strong and the card looks like it could be good it won't be good. Miz/Jordan was meh. This Angle's son thing has massacred Jordan's hopes. I just pray that it's a shit setup for Angle/Hunter with it being revealed as a Trips/Steph ruse to fuck with Kurt because reasons because that's the only chance Jordan has of getting out of this with a hope of a second shot in the future. Hilarious how the one time they do a post match interview was the one time they should have kept well clear. Jordan's getting heckled out of the building but nobody can call an audible to not do the post match promo or at least tell Jordan not to do the you suck punchline. That was really painful. Obviously skipped Balor/Wyatt. Tag match was great and one of the best WWE matches in a long time. Womens match was very watchable with the numbers. Sasha and Bayley looked like absolutely nothing in the match and the other 3 looked by far the most impressive acts in the match. Lel at rushing Bayley into the match so Alexa can beat her again. In a match involving Emma. Cena/Reigns was your modern Cena epic that can do one. There's been a conspiracy theory going round during this Cena run that he's not interested/not trying hard and I'm almost all in on that theory now. He was so weird in the opening stand of this in a I don't give a fuck anymore way. It's sad how Cena went from one of the best big match workers to the very worst. WWE transitions always suck but that double AA straight into the kickout and then the spear was the dirt worst. You know what was coming in the last stand but you expected at least something prior to it and it was absolutely nothing. Neville/Enzo was horrific. Enzo isn't good in the ring but this flopped so bad because they've made everyone stop caring about Enzo and not because Enzo can't work a match. That finish might get somewhat over if the babyface is over in a way that New Day cheat to win sometimes but barely anyone likes Enzo anymore so it's just total heel heat. This went 2 minutes longer than Lesnar/Strowman. I'm fine with Brock working sub 10 minute matches but he needs to work a longer more developed match from time to time and this was absolutely the time. It was basically the highlights of a developed out match and nothing else. You just don't get to establish a show wide culture of kicking out of finishers and then have Brock beat Strowman with one F5 in such a flat ending like that. I know what to expect from a Brock match in 2017 but even with that in mind this was really disappointing. *


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

How anybody could say Cena Reigns is four or five stars is beyond me. That match was two stars max it SUCKED it STUNK an 8th grader could of put together that match. 10 mins of brawling, one commentary table spot and 5 finishers than the match is finished. What is that? There was no storytelling during that match besides Roman Reigns is unstoppable and that's not good enough to be considered more than an average match. The table spot began the finish move after after finish move after finish move what a shit match seems like it was put together the last second. I love a lot of Cena matches but this one sucked lazy 6 finisher moves were done. Match reminded me of Austin Rock WM19 but even worse.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I had very little care for Hell in a Cell until last night when they announced The Usos vs. The New Day will be INSIDE Hell in a Cell. I damn near lost my shit out of excitement for that one. It's a long rivalry that actually warrants the cell due to the numbers New Day has and tendency to interfere (surprising they didn't do it in the street fight tbh), and every single match these teams have had has been absolutely amazing and I expect nothing different inside the cell. Legit WWE MOTY if it lives up to the hype imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

In a bit of a TLC mood atm (the tag team title ones ofc, not the PPV). how do people rank them?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

TLC 1 from Summerslam 2000, and TLC from Wrestlemania X-7 are the best in my opinion. TLC 3 from Smackdown 2001 is pretty great, too.

I don't really remember the others very vivdly.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Kenny said:


> In a bit of a TLC mood atm (the tag team title ones ofc, not the PPV). how do people rank them?


It's TLC II followed by TLC I for me, nothing else comes close. The smackdown one as mentioned above by @admiremyclone is probably next followed by the Shield debut match. I have fond memories of the one on Raw Roulette but I have not watched in years so I can't really rank it. As far as the non tag team ones go, Cena vs Edge would be my favourite.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC I is def the best match ever w/the gimmick. All the early matches are still a lot of fun. They're memorable for a reason.

The worst is either Cena vs Edge or Bray vs Ambrose. Oh, god, Cena vs Orton too. Lol. 

Kenny you might not care for Reigns, but Reigns vs Sheamus from 2015 is GREAT. Total feckin fight. Glad to say, Styles vs Ambrose is top notch too. Some guys keeping the gimmick alive.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Roman/Miz on this weeks RAW ***3/4

Despite HIAC having basically no build the show actually has some good looking matches on paper.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

couple of matches i'm gonna watch before HIAC tomorrow

HHH vs Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000
Batista vs Undertaker - HIAC Survivor Series
HHH vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 28 HIAC 
Armageddon 2000 HIAC 6-pack challenge (i might be in the minority of really enjoying this match) 





Obfuscation said:


> TLC I is def the best match ever w/the gimmick. All the early matches are still a lot of fun. They're memorable for a reason.
> 
> The worst is either Cena vs Edge or Bray vs Ambrose. Oh, god, Cena vs Orton too. Lol.
> 
> Kenny you might not care for Reigns, but Reigns vs Sheamus from 2015 is GREAT. Total feckin fight. Glad to say, Styles vs Ambrose is top notch too. Some guys keeping the gimmick alive.


i remember that reigns/sheamus match, watched it live back when i use to watch raw before i use to download. enjoyed it then, might give it a re watch. cena/orton :lol


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

*Hell In A Cell 2017*

New Day/Usos - ***1/2
Randy/Rusev - **
AJ/Dillinger/Corbin - ***
Charlotte/Natalya - **
Nakamura/Jinder - **
Roode/Ziggler - *1/2
Shane/KO - GOAT ENDING TO A WWE MATCH

SAMI FUCKIN ZAYN


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Those Usos/New Day do it again. 

Usos/New Day - ****1/2
Orton/Rusev - ***
Styles/Corbin/Dillinger - ***1/4
Natalya/Charlotte - **1/4
Mahal/Nakamura - *1/2
Roode/Ziggler - **1/2
Owens/McMahon - ***1/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

avoiding spoilers 

just watched the tag title HIAC, loved it. i'll be back after i finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It had its moment; namely w/the Usos doing the damage. (couple of New Day comedy spots w/their shine was ehhhh) While I didn't mind it, I'm still tired of WWE's sense of on the nose storytelling during matches that end up getting forced. Leaves so much dead air in the wake of TRYING to tell a story, rather than simply doing it by the work achieved. How many times do people have to openly stop what they're doing to talk/look menacingly to each other? It's trash talk yeah, but they're actually talking to each other in preparation for what they're about to do. This isn't a movie. I don't need the idea of a monologue to baby step me into understanding what or why you want to do something. Just hit 'em. Of course this wasn't as goofy in the sense like Taker vs Triple H HIAC from WM 28 where it literally becomes daytime TV before your eyes. But this had elements within it that didn't make me go nuts for it. And on the flip side, I had parts I quite liked. Woods' bit at the end w/the weapons was neat. So it was a touch of both here and there. Unsurprising for their PPV gimmicks to have more flaws in the game than the traditional format goes. That said, the sprint Street Fight from Smackdown a few weeks ago I thought was better in the long run, too. SummerSlam is def the peak of this series. Usos winning pleased me though. They were far more deserving to go over. So, caring about who won was welcomed.

At least the duration Usos vs New Day went felt proper, too. Unlike Owens vs Shane. Which was actually kind of solid for a spell, then it eventually morphed into the bloated epic that dragged, instead of intensified. Throw in the obvious spots & time wasting elements (I'm so beyond sick of paramedics showing up so many times in matches these days) then it became apathetic once again. I'm not even going to start about the pointless swerve finish. Good grief. Nice job on making Kevin Owens need help to beat Shane McMahon.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

New Day vs Usos Hell in a Cell is the first match since Wyatts/Shield that I'm willing to give a five star rating to. And thus, that is what I did. I love these kinds of matches, and it was a fantastic way to end the feud (although now that I think about it, they still have another rematch since the New Day lost their titles).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really looking forward to watching New Day/Usos. Finally a WWE series that actually delivers in pure match quality.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Brock said:


> Really looking forward to watching New Day/Usos. Finally a WWE series that actually delivers in pure match quality.


You will not be disappointed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlternateDemise said:


> You will not be disappointed.


It's funny as when the Usos were faces, I couldn't stand them. They were an instant 'fast forward/get this shit off now'. I can only really remember the Shield match from their face run being any good.

But WWE finally did the right thing and turned them heel and now they're one of the acts I do watch again and their whole series with the new day has been great. Culminating in a fantastic series of matches to boot.

WWE actually getting something right? :monkey


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Brock said:


> It's funny as when the Usos were faces, I couldn't stand them. They were an instant 'fast forward/get this shit off now'. I can only really remember the Shield match from their face run being any good.
> 
> But WWE finally did the right thing and turned them heel and now they're one of the acts I do watch again and their whole series with the new day has been great. Culminating in a fantastic series of matches to boot.
> 
> WWE actually getting something right? :monkey


WWE's actually been doing a lot of things right in regards to the tag team feuds. In fact I might even dare say that this has been the best year for tag teams in a very, very long time. And that's saying a lot considering how we're now in a brand split with limited talent on the rosters, but they've managed to do a great job with them. 

Over on Raw Cesaro/Sheamus have been killing it, after having an outstanding face/heel joint run, they both go heel and it's been even better. They had a great feud with the Hardy's. And with the addition of Ambrose/Rollins, we've got another great face tag team and it feels like Raw now has a thriving tag team division (even though in reality they only have about four or so active teams). Over on Smackdown, Usos/New Day have been having arguably the best feud of the year and the Fashion Police have reinvented themselves to the point where there's now revived interest in their gimmick. And now it looks like a potential Owens/Zayn tag team is on the horizon. 

Say what you want about how WWE has handled their product overall, but in terms of the tag team divisions, WWE has been spot on for the most part.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Usos and New Day were the last guys that properly utilized the cell that I can remember in maybe a decade. It wasn’t a match with huge bumps to get big pops, it was a match that showed the hate between the two teams, and how far and brutal they were willing to go to win the final war inside the cell. I loved it. It makes me actually think that my ****1/2 rating is TOO LOW and should actually be higher, maybe a full *****.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*New Day/Usos was really good. Charlotte/Natalya was going really good borderline great and then we got the usual make you regret watching it finish. I was struggling to get into the match at first because who cares about Natalya but then Charlotte's selling got me into it and it was shaping up to be a great match and then they did the finish they do on every Smackdown PPV that makes you wonder why you bothered watching and just puts heat on the promotion and nothing else. Total waste of a great selling performance by Charlotte. Owens/Shane was decent until they got outside and then I thought it was pretty awesome. The work on top of the cell had this aura of genuine danger that WWE just can't create in any other way because of the Taker/Foley match. They created an expectation that someone had to jump off the cell so I was worried they'd shot all over the ending if it ended with the Owens bump. Zayn turning heel is basically the pinnacle of modern WWE booking. I mean he's awesome so he'll probably be good in the role but it's like finding out Messi is a great keeper. Doesn't mean you stick him in goal at the weekend. At least he might get ring time now I suppose. Probably falls under the trashy wrestling banner but it's up there with the most I enjoyed a WWE match this year.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Charlotte's knee was so damaged and her first instinct was "I really need to hit a moonsault". Not like that's ever pinned anybody before. Nor is it her finisher. But go up top for the arbitrary high risk move when you got one leg. Trash.

When you realize the date and that it's been about a year ago Goldberg returned. Where does the time go? :monkey


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sami Zayn vs Seth Rollins - _Royal Rumble Qualifying Match_ - *WWE: Monday Night RAW 1/23/17*

Oh man, I loved this so much. I guess w/who's involved part of me shouldn't be this surprised, but it felt like a match I didn't hear a whole lot about so it came completely out of the blue. Being my ultimate dream match a decade ago or not. (I did like their ROH match in 2008 a whole bunch too, as one would expect) But this managed to capture a couple of things that made me go bonkers & have a complete blast w/the entire thing. A spot in the Royal Rumble was open, and it FELT like that mattered so much. Commentary harped on how it feels like a championship match b/c the spot was that important to each guy. And it did. For something created only about 10 minutes prior, Zayn & Rollins both put it out there that they had everything to gain or lose on account of this one match. It's great to see both of them really put something together that shows how willing they were to have something memorable. 

This wasn't average RAW match stuff, they were working hard. Their chemistry is a given, but it's just that definitive feeling you get when you're watching something w/that extra bit of oomph to it. You could tell Rollins gave a shit b/c even his tope had FORCE behind the dive. Opposed to the flashy fluff on the usual night. The nearfalls in particular came off so damn well. Normally this is an area w/the WWE structure that I'm often apathetic towards. Trade some nearfalls, get a this is awesome chant by the masses, ho hum stuff, then it ends. What I liked so much here was Rollins hitting some big stuff on Zayn one after another, which couldn't keep him down. Instead of working heel to allow Zayn to fight from below, this is what secured that direction. Zayn doing his underdog spiel, and it's so compelling. His facials & flailing arms as he covers following a big move. Counters ruled, trading some neat pinning combinations, Rollins busting out a couple of fresh ways into signature moves; such as the sequence into both the blockbuster & slingblade. (he did a ripcord into the latter, which I liked a whole bunch. Of course he can't do it nowadays, b/c it is his finisher, but a neat spot here.) I knew who won this and I exlaimed w/AHHUGGH when Zayn didn't get to hit the Helluva Kick on the first attempt. Then by the time he went for the second, little did I think it was gonna quickly lead to a Pedigree on the apron spot. By that point I was probably no different than any casual dork in the audience b/c good grief finisher apron spot on a RAW match in hour #1 ? What in the HELL is going on? In that good "ok, yeah, I love this" way. The TV screwjob finish didn't even take a single thing away from this. It proved to matter, we get Rollins vs Trips, & seals the deal on the outcome here. Rollins waiting, only to say "fuck it" and go back to Zayn was honestly, the best damn thing possible. I was kind of feeling a little "eh" to Zayn using a schoolboy from behind to win, but that didn't happen. Turning around to get caught w/the small package was the much wiser decision. Hats off to booking that right. Plus, they didn't immediately cut away from Zayn after he won. Rollins was pissed & shocked, meanwhile they kept acknowleding the result w/Zayn not understanding what happened, but celebrating he's getting the opportunity. 

I'm not gonna pipe cynical in w/the whole spiel of _THIS IS WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE ALL THE TIME_ yada yada. b/c well, I feel like that's obvious and all that, so I'm just here to say they did this right & got a big pop out of me. Truthfully, I kind of felt like teenage me again after watching this. I really mean that. Got sucked in right from the start. Two favorites making me remember why they're that. I love wrestling making me feel warm & fuzzy. Great match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

raising my Uso/New Day HIAC rating to ****3/4. Second best WWE MOTY behind DIY vs. AOP vs. Revival from Takeover earlier in the year, and easily the best main roster match of the year and best HIAC match in roughly a decade, imo.

Owens/McMahon was scary as fuck on top of the cage. I was legit getting anxiety that one of those panels would just give way. Every bump looked like it would, but good on WWE for reinforcing them enough to give them that bounce but making sure they were secure.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

AJ and Corbin had a real good match on SDLive this week. ***1/4 maybe. Also a fun tag match with Orton/Nakamura teaming. Two great promos between New Day/Usos and KO/Sami. Best SD since the Vegas show.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

With War Games returning for NXT in November, I decided to check out the collection on the Network. Somehow I managed to go my whole childhood and teenage phases of pro wrestling fandom without ever seeing or even hearing about one of these matches. I was told to check out the one from ’91, ’92, ’95 and ’97. So 1991… here we go. 

Barry Windham is bleeding pretty much from the moment the match starts with a cool little visual as Pillman looks up at the camera, blood all around his mouth after he tried to chew off Windham’s face but it ends up feeling really weird as minutes upon minutes pass with him being the only one wearing the crimson mask. I think it is about legitimately ten minutes between Windham getting busted open and Flair getting busted open and then no one else bleeds again after that despite there being another six guys in the match and another ten minutes left on the running time. At least be consistent with these things. 

Pillman has inconsistent psychology too as he enters the match heavily wrapped up, the commentators are telling us he is suffering from a serious injury which makes it a big deal when Pillman enters first (the opening two work a five minute match, then additional people are added every two minutes like a Royal Rumble thereafter and transparently it always goes in the heels favour) and then is eventually ganged up on but sans the tape and the commentary, you’d never know he was supposed to be working an injury as Pillman basically never sells it once. I mean don’t get me wrong, Pillman was an incredible performer, his athleticism was years ahead of his time, in terms of pure work rate he is the best guy in this ring but… what is the point of this whole injury angle if the actual performer isn’t performing it? This is in such contrast to Ric Flair who oversells like fuck, it seems like he goes down like he got shot every time someone comes into vague contact with him. Flair is GOAT but some of the shit he does in this match is ridiculous. 

I also don’t really get the rules. The match seems simple enough but the explanations are so convoluted. So you can’t win the match until everyone has entered? I guess that makes sense but given this is supposed to be such a brutal match, what happens before then? If I incapacitated my opponents I just have to wait around? Seems kinda silly, especially during those opening five minutes. 

Overall, I have to say… I really didn’t care all that much for this. Less of a match and more of a brawl, the commentators (are they Dusty and JR?) desperately try and pass this off like you are watching something epic, rather than the reality of it being a bunch of clunky and soft strikes in a cluster of a match. Given there seems to be no real rhythm to this, it is amazing how much spot calling there are in this, it really just feels so tossed together. If this is the best of War Games I dread to think about how bad the bad ones were. 

I did kinda forget though just how good Sting was before he ripped off The Crow and Sid Vicious plays his role as a big bastard well, there is a power bomb he does on Pillman for the finish and rather than your regular power bomb he pulls him up, bounces him off the cage and then he just spikes him straight down and it looks so brutal. A really cool end, to an otherwise flat match. 

Oh well, I guess I’ll see what ’92 brings tonight.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Moving onto the 1992 War Games and honestly, this one was better than the 1991 edition but had a lot of the problems of the first one and some new ones of its own.

The biggest, new, issue with this iteration is that it takes a lifetime to get going. With five men on either team it is almost half an hour before everyone is in the ring and the match actually begins for real. Then a few moments later… the match is over. 

This one has better energy and intensity than the first one but the bulk of its running time is still made up of a sloppy and uninteresting brawl which clashes with the wild hyperbole of the atrocious commentary. What little genuine action the match does have, the cameras utterly fail to keep up with. 

When you see the guys in this match, I can see the matches importance as a relic but it isn’t very entertaining to watch. 

I don’t think I’m going to bother with any more of these…


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two of the best matches ever. Especially the infamous from '92. Madusa climbing the top of the cage trying to get in, crowd losing their minds. Arn's head stuck in the two rings. Sting military pressing Rude into the cage numerous times, etc :mark: I fecking LOVE that War Games blu ray set. All in one place. Temptation rising.

Why was 1995's War Games match rec'd? That's messed up. But I guess it's good that it wasn't 1998's. 'kin hell, I still got to watch that whole PPV. @Brock I'm still holding off, lolz.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even thinking about that PPV again










The whole booking in the War Games match alone :jones
The opener :jones

Hall/Konnan :jones

Pretty much the whole card :jones

Saturn/Raven at least brings something to that abomination of a PPV.

All the fuss they made about the winner of War Games, which Sting is in btw, gets a shot at Goldberg and his world title...........

Then it was announced just before the match started that the next night on Nitro it would be......Sting/Goldberg for the world title.

Sting should have went home and said what we all thinking "WHY AM I EVEN IN THIS GOD FORSAKEN WAR GAMES SHIT".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still facepalm at the booking for not doing Goldberg vs Giant on the card. It was literally built up to be there, their match on TV ends in DQ. Sure he pinned him at Road Wild, but the collision was still fully open. Then of course the true error entirely was Goldberg not even making the card at all. That's madness. Instead we get Jericho vs a midget & The Cat's heel turn begins in a bad 5 minute match vs Norman Smiley. Not to mention British Bulldog is on the verge of death attempting to work in the opener. None of this needing to be on PPV. (Jericho egging Goldberg on w/an actual opponent would have been acceptable)

Damn. I really hope Saturn vs Raven clicks. And I like Juvi vs Silver King as much as I hyped it up to you prior to watching. Steiner vs Steiner tease. :mj2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was it Jericho who has since said that Goldberg went hunting instead of having to face him at Fall Brawl? Then again, I assume Bischoff had something to do with it too as he could have just booked the match. But I'm guessing Goldberg had the choice and just said no.

Like you say, they had options for Goldberg at that PPV. Giant or that big match with Sting that they threw away the next night on Nitro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc something like that was said. There's been that general rift w/Jericho & Goldberg and all that on the subject, so either it was that night or some other. The obsession w/TV never ceases to rear its head when it comes to WCW, though. Which is too bad considering while in 2nd place now, they still COULD have enticed the fans w/PPV outings & compelling TV, had they not gone for the bare minimum or randomly ignoring follow up aspects to what was presented in front of them. I know it is moot to still be :walphtf in the wake of the company, but damn, you know? So many easy mistakes to be avoided. 

I'd be lying if I didn't like to laugh at wrestlecrap though. Where else am I going to get Stevie Ray & Chavo Guerrero Jr. arguing over a championship involving a notary? WCW ftw. There's a TNA level joke in here somewhere, but I'll leave it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No doubt Goldberg/Sting was an obviously massive match on Nitro that had a VERY HOT crowd, plus the match was good for what it was before the interference (who would have guessed huh). But when you think about how big of a match it was and they threw it away on free TV, esp in those circumstances; Not just the night after the PPV but actually announcing it on the PPV before the main event even started :monkey

Yeah. WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Monkey was made for WCW booking decision chatter. :monkey

Listening to Tony Schiavone's various shoot interviews about the state of the company, oh man. What tidbits of info there. He even said he didn't actively care to try much in 1999 until he said to give him a better product to sell. Rekt. Then when he told Meltzer to suck his dick, I couldn't stop :lmao


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Okay so I've never watched a WCW PPV as I only started watching weekly from 2002 onwards so thought I'd give an old WCW PPV a watch. Low blows in front of the ref in every match & referee bumps in most matches? Did I pick a bad show or was WCW like this in 1998?

WCW Halloween Havoc 1998

Raven vs. Chris Jericho - **1/2
Meng vs. Wrath - *
Disco vs. Juventud Guerrera - ***1/4
Finlay vs. Alex Wright - *3/4
Lodi vs. Perry Saturn - *
Billy Kidman vs. Disco - **1/4
Kevin Nash vs. Scott Hall - ***
Bret Hart vs. Sting - *1/2
Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior - DUD
Goldberg vs. DDP - ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not loving DDP/Goldberg :cal.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just wanted to stop in and say that the card for TLC this weekend looks absolutely atrocious.

That is all. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm quite the big fan of Halloween Havoc 1998. RANDOM MEGASHOW. One of the few from the year that isn't a pile of :walphtf

as Brock & I discussed some others ^^^


----------



## Illogical (Sep 28, 2017)

Brock said:


> Was it Jericho who has since said that Goldberg went hunting instead of having to face him at Fall Brawl? Then again, I assume Bischoff had something to do with it too as he could have just booked the match. But I'm guessing Goldberg had the choice and just said no.


Bischoff wanted to do the match at Fall Brawl and told Goldberg he was going to work Jericho but Goldberg informed him that he wasn't scheduled to work that date and wouldn't work it. That is according to Jericho's book.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Daniel97 said:


> WCW Halloween Havoc 1998
> 
> Raven vs. Chris Jericho - **1/2
> 
> Goldberg vs. DDP - ***


Not into ratings, but :mj2




























But it's all subjective anyway 

Goldberg/DDP is one of the best WCW matches of the decade IMO and a perfect example of a big main event that didn't need 30 minutes. Jericho/Raven I thought was pretty great too tbh considering it had virtually no build up going in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Raven in 1998 was a walking four star match machine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just saw him have an.. idk two star match or something on PPV :monkey

but that Raven vs Saturn match still doesn't do much for me. At least Raven vs Jericho at Havoc rules.

Goldberg vs Sting & MENG vs GIANT from 9/14/98 Nitro still awesome stuff. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

damn, WWE should do more PPV matches with minimal build (and only social media house show corridor 45 second promos as hype) because Balor vs. Styles was phenomenal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three hours of steaming hot apathetic garbage & to top it off, someone got CRUSHED ALIVE in a garbage truck to boot. How ironic.

should have stuck Balor in there instead, so his awful match never happened.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

TLC match was the weirdest thing I remember watching, what the fuck.

Beginning and end, all the parts with Angle, were fun. The middle? What the fuck was that? It got so long and drawn out that I got to the point where I would have even accepted Roman Reigns coming out and making the save for The Shield.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chad 2 Badd said:


> damn, WWE should do more PPV matches with minimal build (and only social media house show corridor 45 second promos as hype) because Balor vs. Styles was phenomenal.





Obfuscation said:


> Three hours of steaming hot apathetic garbage & to top it off, someone got CRUSHED ALIVE in a garbage truck to boot. How ironic.
> 
> should have stuck Balor in there instead, so his awful match never happened.


Conflicting reports, who to trust? 8*D

(Not that I'll watch the match anyway, just wanna provoke a debate :lol)


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Really disappointed that they went basically told us they think the shield is bigger than a Kurt Angle return. 

Sasha/Fox - **3/4
Asuka/Emma - **
Tag Match - **1/4
Enzo/Kalisto - *
Bliss/Mickie - ***
Balor/AJ - ***3/4
Jordan/Elias - *3/4
TLC Match - ***1/4

Not bad, not great. Crowd chanting WE WANT TABLES during Mickie/Alexa match was fucking annoying.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still too busy wondering when Braun is gonna bust out of the garbage truck & I hope its as good of a moment as I want it to be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whatever the thought process of a Hogan/Flair feud in '99, this Flair promo on a FUCKING THUNDER~~~!!! is absolutely tremendous and makes you want to see the match






Upped this a while ago tbh and have just got to this point.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wasn't really a single reason to care about anything that happened last night. Main event was a complete mess. Is Braun supposed to be dead? That's what happens when you throw someone into a garbage truck and they get smashed up. :lol Why is Kane here?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Flair in '99 as the World Championship picture really makes you scratch your head b/c they feuded back in 1994 as it is, but w/the exception of the notorious Uncensored debacle, I actually found the program to be mostly fulfilling. They have a good chemistry w/each other as rivals, and it shows even w/the alignment changes of Hogan as the heel & Flair as the face. It's one of those scenarios where it has an appeal, you just ask if it should have been the sole focus of the title picture. Could have sold w/o it, you know? Again, me pitching questions about WCW w/o a time machine. :walphtf


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Flair/Arn vs The Blondes at Clash Of the Champions 23 and it's also Michael Buffer's WCW debut.

As Flair pins Austin for the first fall, just as it's going to a commercial. You can hear Buffer announce Flair/Arn as the new tag team champions :lmao

Great debut.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WCW with the fuckery :lmao

Just got these packs today

Kurt Angle:



> 00. PPW Heavyweight Vs. JR Smooth 24.07.99
> 00a. Debut Vs. Shawn Stasiak Survivor Series 14.11.99
> 01. European Smackdown 08.02.00
> 02. I.C No Way Out 27.02.00
> ...


Kane



> 00. WCW Debut (Bruiser Mastino) Vs. Sting Saturday Night 06.03.93
> 01. Dr. Isaac Yankem Vs. Bret Hart SummerSlam 27.08.95
> 02. Cage Match- Bret Hart Vs. Isaac Yankem DDS (Kane)- Raw 16.10.95
> 03. Diesel and Razor Ramon Vs. Owen Hart and British Bulldog- In your House 12 15.12.96
> ...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Didn't the Hogan/Flair *first blood* cage match end in a pinfall?


edit - no wait it just that Flair bled first but the match didn't end for some reason.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i remember that :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wrote up what ended up as literally a paragraph of errors that match holds in one of the previous of these discussion threads. I should have saved it, b/c my gosh, the things to keep track of (or, logic that doesn't) is truly outrageous. More than Jem, even.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just got to this Nitro and the utterly wonderful Bret promo






:done great week for promos in WCW

The Hall/Bigelow ladder match from this Nitro was actually.......ok too tbh.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

wwe tv THIS week.

AJ/Rollins/Ambrose vs. Miz/Cesaro/Sheamus - ***3/4
Randy Orton vs. Sami Zayn - ***


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just caught up with the Balor/Styles and the TLC match from the PPV the other night. I love how they turned this PPV into the Kurt Angle show. 

Speaking of Balor/Styles. I don’t really know why they made it Demon Balor v Styles, as Balor Club v Bullet Club would have made a lot of sense out of this one and it would have helped set up a rematch down the road but… whatever. 

I’m glad we got to see Balor/Styles go in a WWE ring even if the whole thing was ultimately pretty disappointing. It played out exactly like what it was… two guys wrestling with next to zero preparation, one of which was jet lagged… We got enough I believe that hopefully there will be a next time, with real build which allows the two to work out a great match and I hold out hopes for that one. 

I still commend WWE for giving the crowd this when their hand was played, it isn’t often it feels like they do something for the fans but this one genuinely felt like it was for us. Those empty seats, dwindling Network figures and regular walk outs must finally be forcing WWE’s hand to make good product. Thank the Heavens! 

Oh and while that was definitely aimed as a “Fuck You” to the Bullet Club, that Too Sweet between Styles and Balor… damn. Moment of the year.

Just think, rather than this, we could have been talking about Sister Abigail v The Demon and there was no hope in hell that would have been good. Although think of the memes of Wyatt in drag.

Speaking of the TLC.Can I just ask… what was going on with the commentary on this match? Was Booker going off script or was it all part of the act? It seemed like Cole and Graves were losing their temper with him throughout.

In terms of the match… from a storytelling perspective, it is undoubtedly problematic, even as someone who hasn’t followed the build in real time, I did find myself scratching my head at this one a bit. I mean like… who is this match for? The Shield asked for this… but why? They spent the majority of the match getting beaten into the floor by a group of individuals who spent the majority of the match arguing. I feel like this match just made The Shield look like idiots. And like… why did Angle help them any way? The Shield won in the end but hardly with any sense of definitiveness, so what are we supposed to take from this? And how does Reigns fit into this, I appreciate a legend stepped in his place but The Shield won without him? Is the get out card that The Shield were on the left foot for the majority of the match and that it wouldn’t have been that way with Reigns? Is that the implication? Just a really odd story. 

And as an actual in ring piece of content, it was problematic also. While I guess I shouldn’t be surprised due to the nature of it all, Angle was carried so much, absent so much and bumping like the cripple he was you really wonder why WWE did this. They already gave us Styles/Balor on the same card. I mean don’t get me wrong, Angle entering with The Shield, through the crowd with palpable joy on his face was wonderful. I popped when his music hit. I popped when he hit his signatures but I couldn’t work out why I was watching a random TLC match with Kurt Angle, who can barely walk, going through tables. Just seems a waste of what few bumps, if any, the man has left in him. 

But the whole match was a bit of a car wreck and that usually isn’t a bad thing when everyone is on the same page but Kane was also incredibly sloppy, dangerously so. He looked so gassed throughout and he seemed to be putting people into danger because of it. I mean don’t get me wrong, the fact they made any use of Kane at all after his random inclusion into this match was cool but just like Angle I really have to wonder why we are seeing this in the first place. 

Probably the only person who came out good in this, despite getting literally murdered at the end, was Braun Strowman. I personally don’t like Terminator gimmicks in wrestling but he is just so much fun and so convincing in the role, his brief seeming face turn as he went on a mini rampage was probably the highlight of the match for me. He also serves as a constant reminder that WWE CAN still make stars if they can be bothered.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Royal Rumble '99 last night. Including the Rock/Mankind I Quit match.

Those 10 straight chairshots still don't get any easier to view :mj2

I also forgot about that stage bump Foley took that 'short circuit' the arena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The stage bump is _insane_. Gets forgotten b/c Foley getting nailed in the head 10 times is the infamous takeaway from it all. Which is ridiculous. Great match, though, iirc. There wasn't a Rock vs Mankind match around that time I didn't like a whole bunch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea I've got their halftime heat match to watch next, as I've just watched the Raw following RR.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So Roddy Piper randomly turns up after not being seen in months. Is immediately put into a US title match with Bret. Oh and of course he wins it due to some crap with Will Sasso and that shite.

All this and you have Benoit jobbing twice in one Nitro last week, and Jericho doing god knows what. Not only that, but it was announced that Benoit would get a title shot against Bret at Superbrawl. Then it was announced that it was going to be Hall/Benoit for a title shot first. Of course Hall won but the following week, he was told no shot. So enter Piper.

:bean

Yea, WCW.

We got a p.good debuting (I think) Blitzkrieg vs Rey match tho.


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Just watched Rumble 1992 good show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The :flair3 show :banderas

And Bobby of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Austin/Vince @St. Valentines Day Massacre is still a fun match. Vince was great here playing his character perfectly and that bump he took was nuts










:vince6

Plus "It's PAUL WIGHT!!!!".

Who immediately looks like a monster and a goof at the same time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation


















Why is Hogan and the NWO in balaclavas, when Hogan reveals himself straight away? Flair obviously knows it Hogan. Then they all take the balaclavas off anyway.

This attack also goes on forever.

And why later on in the show, the announcers have no idea what's gone on when Hogan and NWO arrive at Nitro wearing the same gear, but Roddy fucking Piper knows all that's just happened? Did he suddenly have secret monitors that only he could see?

So what do we get on this Nitro?

Hollywood fucking Hogan vs Roddy fucking Piper for the WCW Championship.

:monkey

6 days before we get Hogan/Flair.

Oh and when a farmer or whoever finds Flair all alone in the middle of a secluded field, why still does nobody else in WCW know what's gone on?

And why for the love of fuck can't Bret 'the best there is, was, ever will be' Hart go over Will fucking Sasso without bullshit?

:bean

So going into Superbrawl, Flair had said that Bret Hart would have to defend the US Title against Benoit, but because of nWo shit and Will Sasso bullshit, the US Title match we get instead at.SuperBrawl IX is..............

Scott Hall vs. Roddy Piper..

Sigh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reading all the events one after another has left me speechless, just about as much as I am whenever I watch all of the nonsense take place.

Well, w/the exception of marveling at how much money it cost to pull off the segments complete w/B-movie atmosphere and HELICOPTER & CAMERAS. 

Bret Hart literally feuding w/Will Sasso and not making a PPV b/c of it :lmao

Now you are starting to see how easily WWF was able to pull away from WCW. It's almost like Bischoff & company decided to make the decision for the fans. Speaking of latter 1999, I finished up Fall Brawl '99 yesterday, and my gosh, the difference of appearance in arena size + big time feel for the company in the span of a year (Fall Brawl '98 - Fall Brawl '99) is staggering. They took such a hit it's truly a shame. Too many bad decisions will do that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The money that field skit must have cost :done

Flair gets the shit beat out of him in a field for ten minutes.......he makes his way to Nitro via a lift from a farmer/passer by/whatever.......only to get the shit kicked out of him again when he gets there.

Oh did I mention RODDY FUCKING PIPER???!!!

Oh the joys of Superbrawl await.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Piper randomly benefiting from Flair & the Horsemen's failures, lolol.

Key word there being RANDOMLY. Just give this guy lots of stuff b/c he's a loved big name. Who cares if he's been MIA for months but apparently still has a position of kayfabe power within the company.

Oh, that World Championship Wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

He's still out there claiming he's the 'acting Commissioner'

How? How? Fucking how? You've been gone for months.

Oh hang on; Isn't Goldberg/Bigelow on this PPV? Because there was zero mention of it on the go home Nitro or Thunder AFAIK. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is. tbf, in more vintage WCW ways, I think there are about two more matches that make the card which don't have much hype or announcement behind 'em, too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I may have missed something on Thunder, but i'm sure the Nash/Luger vs Konnan/Rey 'Mask vs Liz's hair' match wasn't announced either TBH. I certainly don't remember the stip being mentioned properly anyway. I had to look the card up to see it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation Re; Superbrawl

Dear Mexico,

Fuck you.

Yours (In)sincerely,

Eric Bischoff


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy shit, I'm actually drawing a bit of a blank on the context here. But I'm :lmao at what it could be that I'm blanking on atm.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really good match between Miz & Matt Hardy for the IC Title tonight. 

Angle as the Team Captain of RAW peaks my interest a tad because I wanna see Braun rise from the dead and Kurt trying to convince him to be on the team could be hilarious.  Rest of the PPV aside from Shield/Usos looks abysmal though. Need to have decent champions first for these matches to feel big at all. Miz/Corbin, Alexa/Nattie, and Lesnar/Jinder are snooze-worthy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Holy shit, I'm actually drawing a bit of a blank on the context here. But I'm :lmao at what it could be that I'm blanking on atm.


http://thumbs80.top1.ro/filme/cenzoru/0721/rey-misterio--unmasked.jpeg

I mean Hall & Nash actually gave Rey quite a bit in the match and went as far as to do some decent bumping for him, 

But yea

In other Superbrawl news;










Bigelow dodged the first spear attempt so I guess Goldberg had to get it in again somehow. Match was pretty meh tho with a lot of the heat gone. Goldberg still really over tho of course.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ahhhhh a jab at the Rey scenario. Makes sense. Especially for me, a big Mysterio fan, who is still ehhhhhhh about his time w/o the mask. 

Goldberg vs Bigelow is one of the true disappointments for me w/a Nitro Era feud/blow off match. Unsure if I'd call it a bad match off the top of my head, but knowing it gets 11 minutes, the vast majority being a heatless chinlock segment, instead of two beasts mauling each other sucks. A lot. Bigelow's streak of matches following it manage to elevate him back into super fun territory, thankfully.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea I'd much rather have had a match half the length with them beating each other up and hitting just big moves until the finish. Not sure if they wanted Goldberg to have a longer match with Bigelow though or what, but as a said, a lot of the heat they built up pre Starrcade between them was gone at this point and it felt flat.

Oh and










:flair3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Ahhhhh a jab at the Rey scenario. Makes sense. Especially for me, a big Mysterio fan, who is still ehhhhhhh about his time w/o the mask.
> 
> Goldberg vs Bigelow is one of the true disappointments for me w/a Nitro Era feud/blow off match. Unsure if I'd call it a bad match off the top of my head, but knowing it gets 11 minutes, the vast majority being a heatless chinlock segment, instead of two beasts mauling each other sucks. A lot. Bigelow's streak of matches following it manage to elevate him back into super fun territory, thankfully.





Brock said:


> Yea I'd much rather have had a match half the length with them beating each other up and hitting just big moves until the finish. Not sure if they wanted Goldberg to have a longer match with Bigelow though or what, but as a said, a lot of the heat they built up pre Starrcade between them was gone at this point and it felt flat.
> 
> Oh and
> 
> ...


Oh of course the night after Rey unmasks, Nash does a job on Nitro










This Nitro did feature a very good Bret/Booker match tho. Altho they did decide to go to a backstage DISCO FUCKING INFERNO skit mid match. Why couldn't Bret have kept the belt and just had this as the US title match.

We also got the sometimes forgotten 'other' Horsemen parody skit at the end of the show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I'm unsure if that was one of the matches where they decided Goldberg should keep on going 10 minutes or longer every PPV now. Then it simply fizzled by the way they constructed it. It's WCW, so again, who knows the thought processes.

Flair moment rules. Did you like the match? Finish shenanigans aside. Stated this once, but I'm ok w/the match for the time being. (actually liked it, tbf, but it's been over a year since I last saw to know for sure)

Giant Killer Rey begins. And ha, nobody seems to remember that Horsemen parody. So much about 1999 not on the radar like the other Nitro years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know something?


















*I'm going to whisper this*











I actually quite enjoyed Hogan/Flair up until the shitty finish. Only issue I has was Hogan I thought got a little too much offense in at the start given it was supposed to be all about Flair's revenge.

You also gotta love WCW's random wavering of the DQ rule. Chairs? Yea why not. Belts too? Yea fuck it.

But as a match, it was actually alright lol. But Flair continuing to look bad is rather disconcerting tbh since he became President esp.

But it ain't over yet, so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nice. WCW mayhem (no pun intended) rule in full effect for the main events. Always a given w/the finishes, but the use of foreign objects not causing cheap DQs being up in the air, well, so be it. IT'S A BIG MATCH. As Tony or Bobby would exclaim to tell us why it still keeps going. All a shame at what's next up on the horizon w/this feud, but I mean, hey, one of their matches working for the majority is something I can accept.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now on this Thunder, Bret the supposed heel still, is squashing the newly Wolfpac member and uber annoying heel Disco Inferno

:monkey

K.

We did get a Blitzkrieg/Juvi match tho. A taster to their Spring St match which I'm looking forward to getting to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A lost tv Blitzkrieg vs Juvi match?

:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> A lost tv Blitzkrieg vs Juvi match?
> 
> :mark:


Just a short match with a commercial break included. If you want it upping I'll try if it's not online.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that'll be cool. I'd like to check it out. :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation

*Juventud Guerrera vs Blitzkrieg (WCW Thunder 02/25/1999)*






I edited out the commercials too :cozy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sweeeet.

I miss Thunder. Hoping it'll be added to the Network sometime soon in the future. Feels like its the next thing to produce; that or various C shows. I want potential for hidden gems.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea I don't know if it's the fact that WCW mislabeled a lot of Thunders that has halted WWE putting them on the network yet. Or they're still mastering them to upload soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That reminds me, I have the network for free until Jan. Maybe I should use it at some point...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bonzo said:


> Yea I don't know if it's the fact that WCW mislabeled a lot of Thunders that has halted WWE putting them on the network yet. Or they're still mastering them to upload soon.


I always figure the editing process is the reason for most delays. b/c they don't tend to have any specific release dates for new added content. Sort of willy-nilly when things get added. Wonder how much of a priority it is to do the remastering at the same time.



Big Cal's World said:


> That reminds me, I have the network for free until Jan. Maybe I should use it at some point...


Don't worry, at this rate you'll have a free trial that lasts for years. :monkey


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well this IS the third free trial I've had this year :lmao.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shit, I don't know what the chances are of this happening (probably slim), but if AJ wins and we can get Lesnar vs. Styles at Survivor Series I'll lose my mind. Modern day DREAM match.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/926146877497774080


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock will just suplex him 5 times, hit an F-5 and it'll be over.

same ol scene

Wasn't there supposed to be a Styles vs Rusev match this week anyways? Killing that, despite being on Smackdown, is 0/10.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> *Brock will just suplex him 5 times, hit an F-5 and it'll be over.*
> 
> same ol scene
> 
> Wasn't there supposed to be a Styles vs Rusev match this week anyways? Killing that, despite being on Smackdown, is 0/10.


Yeah, probably... 

Not sure what they're doing with the Rusev match. May as well just put him on Team SD as the lone heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was having a running joke going that no heels will make each team, so it will opt for the fans to try and figure out who they want to cheer, b/c of brand specifics. That and the championship matches are mostly heel vs heel, w/the exception of tag teams.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> Shit, I don't know what the chances are of this happening (probably slim),


Zero probably.







































Not that WWE would make the match as epic as it's potential has tho anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Apparently Jinder is moderately hurt(?) so that's why there's speculation of a random change here. But it's all moot, especially if it does happen as a contingency. Brock is going over in Brock fashion. We all know the endgame w/him. Then Styles will probably drop the championship to Jinder immediately once he returns to put everything back to status quo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Exactly. Lesnar/AJ could be the Lesnar/Eddie of today.

Fuck, it could be the Brock/Punk of today.

But it won't be and that's why no matter how much I'd want the match to happen, it'll probably be a disappointment due to booking and all that with Lesnar.

I can still see Jinder/Lesnar happening tho unless Jinder is really hurt tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Highlight of this next Nitro.

Well, apart from all the pyro going off in the middle of the Rey/Bigelow match to celebrate the opening of the second hour. But Rey continues his giant killer run anyway.

Plus Hak beating the shit out of Raven/Bigelow and a cameraman with a kendo stick










Oh and Flair cut another good promo. Of course.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jinder being hurt can still def work vs Brock. He'll probably smash him even faster than anticipated w/that being part of it. Part of me wonders if this is just another championship tease en route to locking all the champion vs champion matches for the card. Bliss & Miz already defended. No doubt we're gearing up for Corbin vs Cara before the PPV w/this odd program, & now Styles vs Jinder. I don't expect a change, but either way, much like the rest of the company - NXT excluded - I can't say I care either way.

These Nitro highlights are legit. Goldberg, holy crap. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was nice to see him do that to Steiner tbh 

There was also an ok Bret/Benoit match on that Nitro too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation

This Hogan promo was very different than his character may suggest. This was from Thunder a week before
Uncenscored.

Do i sense a turn coming up from this promo :hmmm

It's actually a very good promo TBH and very different from Hogan. I'd say it's a forgotten one in the midst of this era of WCW. The Hogan/Flair feud has had it's share of :lol and fpalm, but there is still sprinklings of something good from both of them in there at times. More so from Flair of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uncensored '99 gave us that at least out of Stevie Ray/Vincent. :bosque


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation










Where to try and start to sum up Hogan/Flair from Uncensored.

Well, first of all Flair comes out first and immediately cuts a heel promo (he's the face). Telling someone in the crowd to shut up and telling the ref; Charles Robinson to not stop the match for only a little blood. So he's already put that little caveat I. the viewers' minds.

Hogan pretty much dominates from the start as usual and it doesn't take Flair long to be busted open.

Match carries on because "It's just a trickle tho".

They do the double turn mid match with Hogan essentially turning face after a Hulk up and doing his usual Hogan face offense routine. I mean as bad as all this is, Flair and Hogan do actually get the crowd to go along with this.

Hogan goes for a pin and of course Robinson refuses to count because "IT'S A FIRST BLOOD MATCH".

Is Flair bleeding and Robinson ignoring it intentional?

Hulk then points out that Flair is in fact bleeding from his head.

Pfft.

So Hogan carries on and busts Flair open more by continually ramming him into the cage. David Flair comes to ringside and then Arn. Who passes an object to Flair to hit Hogan and then........PIN HIM 1 2 3.

Which Robinson fully obliges and does a fast count for good measure. Which of course Tony and Co doesn't bother to notice or acknowledge.

Okaaaaaaaaaay.

The announcers don't know what the fuck is going on either. Is it a first blood match? Why is Robinson suddenly counting the pinfall? Is he crooked?

At one point Tony says "This is bizarre". He always had a way with saying something that's unintentionally incredibly ironic.

So a double turn with no build up or logic occurs and I guess now Hogan is suddenly face and Flair is explibly a heel. No idea why Flair wanted to turn again for no reason here.

Hogan/Flair do work hard in the match as they usually do together, but the booking and nonsensical nature of it all just supercedes any wrestling work they put in tbh.

HOGAN HULKED UP SO WE CAN NOW FORGET THE LAST THREE YEARS AND THE FINGERPOKE OF DOOM THAT WAS JUST 2 MONTHS AGO......HE'S GOOD AGAIN!!!!!

We think?????


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

THE PHENOMENAL ONE :banderas

He actually managed to carry Mahal to something passable :woytf

I guess I'll give credit to Jinder for the viciousness of the table spot and... well, not fucking up, at least. AJ's offense was crisp and on point as per usual. Nicely worked finishing stretch. Plus, the hot Manchester crowd made it something of a spectacle

I don't watch WWE now and wouldn't have viewed this if the silly buggars in the chat box hadn't been so flagrant with the live updates. The one time where spoilers are a blessing :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ok, business is starting to pick up now. :mark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/928095401588097024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/928277815094599680


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AJ/Brock; pls be good :fingerscrossed

Don't get me wrong, I'm over the moon not only that Styles is WWE Champion again but we are actually getting this match.

I just want them to book it right and at least give one shit about the match quality.

It just feels like saying this is like deja vu lately in Brock matches :mj2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bonzo said:


> @Obfuscation
> 
> Hogan/Flair do work hard in the match as they usually do together, but the booking and nonsensical nature of it all just supercedes any wrestling work they put in tbh.


^^^
It's that paragraph that really sells the baffling nature of it home all the more. Everything about it doesn't make a lick of sense, and yet, somehow, throughout it all, the last thing the match is - is fundamentally bad like the guys weren't at least trying. b/c they were. Of all the matches to finally want to get your shit together in (I guess more so on Hogan's case in WCW) THIS is one of the ones they chose. Again, maybe it's b/c Hogan and Flair just click. Have that natural chemistry. But jeez, you can't defeat warped logic when it is looming massively over any idea of actually wanting to put some work in to make the fans care. (and of course, this mindfuck has a hot crowd fully invested, that puts a lot of stuff this decade to shame) Quite frankly, it's probably the biggest anomaly in the pro wrestling. I mean, really. All the things to point out and dissect. Sheesh. :walphtf


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah as I said, the crowd were fully with them the whole way and we're actually invested in the supposed double turn, no matter how ridiculous and out of left field it was and Hogan/Flair went out there and worked hard to at least try and put it over.

But they could have gone for an hour (well Ric anyway :evil) and it wouldn't have mattered because the wrestling work wasn't important when the booking is all that will be remembered and used upon in the end.

Which is a shame because it's 1999 and it's Flair/Hogan but they did have their working boots on. Of course that's saying more for Hogan then it is for Flair as he always did.

I'm certainly interested what happens the next night on Nitro and how Tony and co make sense of all this because at the PPV, they didn't have a clue what was going on like pretty much all the viewers watching.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

AJ did was Shinsuke and Randy couldn't do multiple times and got a very good match out of Jinder.

****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Nitro after Uncensored (15th March)

We got a Flair promo but nothing was really explained about what went on and Tony/Larry still didn't know either and all are treating Hogan as he heel pretty much. We did get Goldberg/Nash/Hogan coming out and each demanding a title shot against Flair.

It's Goldberg's fucking time. Stop screwing him over.

Anyway, somehow we end up with a main event of Nash/Hogan vs Goldberg/Flair.

@Obfuscation

Went about 10 minutes and it was a really fun match. I know we should expect it given the names involved but this is WCW and Nitro so usually these big name main events go nowhere, but this was very good.

Goldberg and Hogan do great 'clash of the titans' type work in this.

Apart from the finish; WE GOTTA GO WITHOUT A FUCKING FINISH

Fuck off WCW.

Super fun match tho.

Also on this Nitro, Rey won the Cruiserweight title back in an excellent match with Kidman. Really fast paced and non stop. Definitely recommend watching this one.

Jericho/Booker and Malenko/Benoit vs Barbarian/Morrus had good matches too tbh. I even quite liked Meng/Flynn simply for how stiff the match was lol.

As always an up and down Nitro but this had some good matches. Just a shame the main event had to go the usual easy cop out WCW way of "WE GOTTA GO". I hated that shit and it was shit here too. I get nobody probably wanted to job, but it's still annoying to watch.

Saying that, on the same dates' Raw; The main event was Austin/Mankind vs Big Show/Rock. It was another fun match, but after a while whilst they were all brawling out the ring, Austin's music randomly played, the copyright notice appeared and Raw ended.

No warming or anything lol. It was worse than what Nitro did tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm blanking on most of that Nitro w/the exception of Jericho vs Booker & MENG vs Flynn. So this is something to go back and look forward to on a rainy day. Oh well, obviously I remembered Mysterio vs Kidman, just no idea how I feel about the match. I watched their match from 10/19/98 a few days ago and my goodness, was it ever HORRENDOUS. I guess I can chalk it up to Rey coming back from a knee injury, but holy cow did those two shit the bed together. That common misconception that the audience always cared about the Cruiserweights doing moves is just that here; there was no heat for any of this. It went 13 minutes, too, & they called it a time limit draw. To which a crowd that was doing the wave & wanting Flair started to boo. I'll need the '99 match to wipe this away.

Saw the Styles vs Mahal highlights. Seemed fun. Absolutely do not care about Styles vs Brock, like I already stated. But whatever. Styles' moment was cool. I did laugh at Sheamus & Cesaro winning the tag titles on RAW though. Like, what, so they're probably going to lose them now this week on RAW to cause some kind of "omg, can you believe this competition to represent the brands" type junk? Although, tbf, idc if this is minority or not, I rather have The Bar vs Usos at the PPV over Usos vs Shield. Remember what does four did last year w/3 minutes at the end of a terrible match, making it (almost) turn around? Yeah, lets try that w/10 minutes. Heel vs heel or not, this can do work.

not sure why Sami Zayn is getting beat by Kofi Kingston on Smackdown. That's another rant for another day, I suppose. If this was 2011 I'd be so irrationally PISSED, it'll be ridiculous.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Meanwhile on this upcoming Thunder; Hogan vs Hennig main events


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is it 1990 again? :CENA


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hogan wrestling a seemingly random match on Thunder is something too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Babyface Hogan gonna put the work in. :monkey


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea, 'babyface' :evil No idea if Tony know still what's going on or at what point the turn is acknowledged tbh.

The crowd popped again on Nitro for Hogan's Hulk up, but the commentators don't seem to grasp much of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair started acting like a power hungry jerk.

then the rest is just kind of there. That's probably the logic at its deepest backstage. Random turns out of the blue is truly Nash booking 101. One program ends, so here's the next thing w/o a care of the past.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea I was going to say, Flair suddenly becoming dismissive and throwing his weight around and literally telling the audience to shut up even before the Uncensored match was the start. But even then the turn is still 'why'.

But yea, one thing about Nash's booking that I can look at is his hotshotting of things and the lack of logic in some of it.

I mean, on that Nitro when Charles Robinson was explaining why he didn't stop the match when Flair was bleeding, at no point did Mene Gene and/or the commentators say anything about the fact that he not only allowed Flair to 'submit' Hogan, but he also initiated a fast count with it. In a first blood match in which earlier Hogan tried to pin Flair too but Robinson told him he obviously couldn't make a count.

That could be bought up at a later date out of nowhere but it doesn't look like it. Hogan just said essentially he was screwed over, not what happened.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did look odd. Flair and Hogan both cut promos on this Thunder too that practically said "I am now a full on heel again" :flair3 and "I'm face and trying to be good again" :hogan

Flair has been antagonising the crowd since Uncensored though tbh. He berated/insulted one guy on Thunder for having a Hogan sign. His power trip is in full swing. He even made Hennig seem a face too in their promo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So the 22nd March 1999 Nitro then. Main highlights;

@Obfuscation

Dusty Rhodes is suddenly on TV again after not being seen I. months. He's also a 'consultant' or something too now and is putting over Flair as an ass who promised him a lot of shit but he never got it.

He's a consultant which probably means we won't see him again for a while. Or he'll turn up out the blue and insert himself into a storyline.....oh he already has.

Oh Vampiro is back......

Is Baron Corbin just Vampiro......... :hmmm

We then get a bikini contest for 'Miss Nitro' with Torrie out.

:homer

Nash/Hogan are also here and there's a "Show your tits" chant, in which Nash refuteswith "I would but it's cold".

:bosque Yea I did smirk at that one

He also says "Eat your heart out, Sable" as the segment comes to a close.

:heyman6

They're still half assing these Hogan/Nash turns tho tbh.

We get a rather unique match up next; Goldberg vs Hak.

Kewl.

Standard quick match with Hak using the cane to no effect on Goldberg. Goldberg slamming Hak before hitting the spear.

This was a good spot tho










So next we get a Bret promo. Oh he's suddenly back too so I guess they have something for him again. 

Tony suddenly putting Bret over now. So he's a.....face again.......Maybe?????

He goes on one of tirades with a worked shoot about how he's essentially been misused since joining WCW and he come here to earn a reputation not lose one. Bret teases a Hogan match after Gene blatantly says it's a dream match. This should have been a promo to set that up but we never got it.

He eventually calls out Goldberg which sets up next week. WCW actually planning something.

Skip to the main event and it's Flair/Rey. Is this the only match they had btw?

It was a fun match. Some clunky spots and miscommunication at times but Flair did a lot to help Rey stay over and make it look like he may win here. It takes an Arn interference to stop Rey winning in the end. Then Flair ends up in the swimming pool for good measure.

--------------

Then on the following Thunder the main event was Ric Flair vs Barry Windham for the title apparently.

:monkey

You've just had Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and fucking Goldberg come out on Nitro demanding a title shot, but fuck them I'll give it to Windham on Thunder. Who is a heel still AFAIK. 

Match was meh with a non finish, when Flair had Windham in the figure four, Arn came down and for some reason pulled Windham out. Whispered something in his ear and Windham and Arn just left Ric in the ring as Thunder went off air.

Weird.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh god that Vampiro vs Juvi match on that Nitro. :mj4

I remember thinking Goldberg vs Hak should have been more, but liking it for what it was, simply b/c Goldberg formula is something I'm open to. Really don't remember specifics about Flair vs Mysterio, although I def do remember it happening. Doesn't Steiner work vs Jericho? I could be blending the semi-frequent Steiner/Booker/Jericho pairings in early '99.

Envious of the Thunder stuff, still. I know some things, but for sure, there are a few elements about that have slipped by me that I'd love to see - for better or worse - all over again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea Jericho continues doing the jobs on his way to WWF. Match was ok tbh and showed some promise, even with Steiner.

That Thunder is actually on YT


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation

STING IS BACK":










Flair: "I'm the WCW President dammit. Don't go flying around without telling me"

:lmao

This also seems the start of the DDP heel turn too as he's out there insulting the crowd. Just after Steiner ran over his wife and put him on the shelf.

kay

But Page continues to bring up Steiner.

I dunno. These heel turns continue to make zero sense.

Of course we had the Bret/Goldberg segment with the steel plate. Some may question doing this to Goldberg considering he's supposed to be the big face. Plus, Bret's gone for a bit after this so it can't be followed up on either.

But Bret was in Canada so it was always going to turn out this way. The other issue was I don't think WCW followed up on this segment either due to Bret needing groin surgery I think.

Bret's "He's putting up all this money to take on Steve Austin? (When Goldberg called out Austin on the tonight show) Let me tell you something; I beat Steve Austin every time i fought him" line was good too.

Bret then says to Bischoff "I quit". Shouldn't he have said this to Flair instead :evil

We got a couple of very good matches on this show; Malenko/Benoit vs Rey/Kidman was excellent. I don't quite understand them turning all the Horsemen heel though only because Flair suddenly becomes an asshole, but this match was quite boss and would probably end up as one of the MOTY for WCW at least. Really enjoyed this.

The finish also seemed the start of a Raven/Saturn vs Benoit/Malenko feud. Fuck yeah.

We got another good Hogan/DDP match. These two do work well with each other. Not as great as their Nitro match in late '97 (not sure about their '98 one tho, can't remember it atm). Trouble was it was overbooked to fuck but some of the work was good.

------------

Meanwhile on Thunder










Oh and Hogan faced The Disciple (URGH ~~!!) in the ME and ended up seeing off Flair and the Horsemen on his own.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So I made it to Spring Stampede '99 today in my WCW '99 viewing. This show has a very good reputation already as one of WCW's best shows so I was really looking forward to seeing it in full. 

*Juvi/Blitzkrieg* 

This is still one if the best PPV openers of all time. This is exactly how you'd want a match with the cruisers to go. Just balls to the wall the whole way through and innovative offense. Loved it when Juvi put Blitzkrieg in a surfboard, but he quickly reversed it into a pin attempt. Blitz even busted out a Phoenix Splash; he missed, but it still looked great  Fantastic start. 

That super Juvi driver :banderas 

*Hak/Bam Bam* 

From the start, Hak puts Bammer through a table, who then immediately picks up the broken table and hits Hak over the head with it. Great start. The match doesn't reinvent the wheel or anything but is a ton of fun. Just two guys hitting each other with as much shit as they can find. Some of those head shots are always  but still :lenny Hak might not be Ric Flair in the ring but he can be fun to watch when he just doesn't care about his own well being lol. Chastity does mess up a fire instinguisher spot tho but it's a slight blot in a very fun match. 

Grand finish too to cap it off







Even tho it was basically the same finish as the opener but through a table instead :evil 

*Scotty Riggs/Mikey Whipwreck* 

:meh 

Crowds "boring" chants were warranted here. Just a shitty filler match. 

*Konnan/Disco* 

Oh fuck off. We get two great matches followed by two couldn't give a fuck ones. I actually don't mind Disco as much tbh but Konnan is always :jones 

TEN FUCKING MINUTES :tenay 

*Kidman/Rey* 

Cruiserweight Championship match here, although Rey and Kidman are also the tag champs. Yeah it's WCW booking don't forget. Benoit/Malenko should still be the tag Champions. Crowd were rather surprisingly dead for most of this match. It was a fine match between these two, who should know each other well enough by now in there. They've had better matches tbh but there were still some good spots here, just a bit too much of them. The middle rest spot didn't help much either. It was still a good match but at the same time, still disappointing considering I know these two can do better. Probably describe it as a standard good match between them. Although others may like it more. 

*Benoit/Malenko vs Saturn/Raven* 

This should be a lot better. 

First off; Raven's WCW theme :banderas 

Well this is a FUCKING GREAT TAG MATCH. Great heat throughout with Arn Anderson getting involved and the crowd fully behind Saturn/Raven. It's just a great old school classic tag match. Big spots with Saturn going through a table and a creative finish with the chair. They actually teased a big finish right in the middleof the match with the Cloverleaf then the DVD from Saturn. Malenko/Benoit using classic heel tactics throughout too and Raven having a short FIP segment. It got plenty of time too to grow and develop and all four of them came out looking great from this. They all worked hard and the match didn't really slow down. This was excellent and a definite MOTY candidate and one of the best tag matches in WCW. 

*Scott Steiner/Booker T* 

US title time here. 

These two had an ok match at Uncensored Nitro a few weeks before this and this was another ok match tbh. But with this incarnation of Steiner, you're not really going to get great matches. Obviously he plays his heel character well enough and stooges and delays things throughout to get the right amount of heat. As an actual match it's just standard fare in keeping with the feud. Nothing dud worthy but nothing to write home about either. Steiner gets the US belt. 

We did get a Frankensteiner at least










Goldberg/Nash[/b] 

So the rematch. 4 months removed from, what most would call, another low point in shitty WCW booking; As in the ending of the streak.

:tenay 

Goldberg should really be in the title match by now but he's still very over of course despite being stuck in limbo to make way for the Hogan/Flair feud. He wasn't even at Uncensored and this match doesn't serve much purpose other than Goldberg getting his win back and I guess keeping him looking strong going forward. Nash does dominates this from the start, hitting his standard moves until Goldberg quickly makes his comeback. 

He goes for the spear but 

NASH DOES A LESNAR ~~!! 










:wow 

Goldberg then takes out an interfering Luger before winning with the Spear/Jackhammer combo to get his deserved win and in the end, comes out looking strong in the process too. Short match but it served it's purpose. 

*Hogan/DDP/Flair/Sting (Special ref: Savage)* 

Yeah out of nowhere on Nitro, not only did Sting make his return after 6 months out, but Savage was randomly inserted as the ref. Well Sting was randomly added into the match too as all he did was drop down from the rafters and Bam; he's now in the title match. 

The ending to the last Nitro was actually quite bizarre how all this was announced tbh. No Buffer for this one. Savage is finally (I think) back after a long hiatus (he did make a brief appearance on the post Starrcade Nitro) and as I said; he's the special ref for this. 

Gorgeous George tho :lenny 

Tits :banderas 

Thought this was a very fun main event. Hogan has to be taken out the match kid way through due to a bad knee (think he took some time off after this). Sting looked great in this though despite him coming back from 6 months away. Him and Page world so well with each other too. They do a great Tombstone reversal spot and in general, Sting shows so much fire here that he was missing through a lot of '98. Even when Hogan had to leave the match, it was still fun as Flair/Sting/DDP made up for it with some creative spots and keeping the energy of the match up. Sting was great at his no selling spots and getting the crowd alive and engaged. 

The finish was a tad odd with Savage hitting his flyimg elbow on Flair, who basically no sold it tbh, but DDP immediately hit the diamond cutter to finally win his first world title. Yeah I get the Flair/Savage history, but it still came out the blue here. A fun main event to cap off a very good PPV overall. 

All in all an excellent and very fun PPV that remains on the upper echelon of WCW events. Already at this point in 1999 the booking continues to be baffling and nobody knows what they're doing but they put on a great PPV here, double so given the era and the fact that's it's WCW.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy fuck, the decisions and the swerves they've given us in the past week have been crazy and turned my interest level WAY up for this PPV. Ridiculously hyped for the top two matches now! And The Usos vs. The Bar!? Shield vs. New Day!? AND War Games the night before!? :done


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930276386052366337


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol Triple H

but who cares when NXT is running GALLOWAY vs CIEN. Holy shit, now that's actually a WWE match worth an emotional investment.

-----------

Spring Stampede '99 bullet points:

Great PPV. Got a few stinkers in the middle, but oh well. 

Whipwreck vs Riggs is why? Konnan vs Disco is a Konnan match aka crap. Kidman vs Rey sucks b/c both dudes get injured right in the start of it & the crowd doesn't care b/c well, how could they? Match was bad.

I swear for as many times as I've seen that show, I don't remember much about Booker vs Steiner other than the finish. Which I guess isn't good. But I never remember hating it. It's just there. Thought Uncensored was the better of the two.

Main event is sloppy in areas, but still p. fun. DDP, Flair, & Sting. Can't really go wrong w/that. Plus, DDP wins. It may end quick b/c its a WCW ppv, but a great moment.

I like Goldberg vs Nash II. Nash's simple work is swell, the build to the Goldberg comeback is timely, & the Goldberg formula is hot as ever. The first match is better, but this is a worthy follow up. Even if it kind of happens out of the blue. Still a lot of fun to watch. The Goldberg win is always satisfying. :cozy

Juvi vs Blitzkreig, Bam Bam vs Hak, & Benoit/Malenko vs Raven/Saturn are GREAT. Always loved all 3. Especially the first two. Been memorable WCW go-to matches since the PPV aired.

Always been a favorite PPV from the company. Fitting for the reputation it seems to have. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ravens WCW theme :banderas

Actually looking forward to Survivor Series but fear Brock ruining it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm fearing the inevitable 50 minute elimination match two years in a row, w/an abundance of overselling, nonsense spots/booking, & Michael Cole shouting.

Forgot to mention it yesterday but I'm confirmed that Sami Zayn vs Samoa Joe from Fastlane is the most undervalued PPV match of the year. It's outstanding.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation






Had to rewind this bit when i watched this Nitro last night, but Flair certainly seems to say "Your'e fucked" :hutz

I was on my phone when i happened to look up and see this and legit though it was Jim Neidhart for a sec

:bosque










Sting/Flair had an enjoyable match on this Nitro too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hugh "The Anvil" Morrus :walphtf

Flair either says "you're fucked" or "you're booked", but who knows. Had to rival King from dropping an F bomb on that random RAW you posted.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Hugh "The Anvil" Morrus :walphtf
> 
> Flair either says "you're fucked" or "you're booked", but who knows. Had to rival King from dropping an F bomb on that random RAW you posted.


I don't watch the Saturday Night's as I don't have them, but I did catch a Malenko/Benoit vs Rey/Kidman match a few days after that Nitro (04/17) that I enjoyed. It was a sub 10 minute match that was basically the heels beating the crap out of Kidman before Rey got the hot tag. Then Arn got involved for the finish.

Quick but it did show how great of a heel team Benoit/Malenko could be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sure its probably a good time. Most of that tri-pairing among the three teams usually was around then, except for one specific match. But I won't say it to avoid ruining it and all that. (but it sucksssss)

There's some good tag matches left to happen on TV in 1999 that you'll eventually see. One of them having a duo that oddly worked well in their match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ANDRADE CIEN ALMAS!!! :mark: :mark:

Another top of the line Takeover that delivered past expectations. Aleister/Velveteen was just as great as I remembered seeing at a live event a few months ago, women's match was a lot of fun, and the double main event was fantastic.

McIntyre/Almas - **** (Fantastic sense of urgency and crazy nearfalls. Still shocked by the result)
War Games - **** 1/4 (Imo a tremendous throwback to the gimmick and a hell of a lot better than some of the orginals. Brutal match with a ton of crazy bumps and spots. Definitely a war. Huge props to Wolfe)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHEN CIEN BECOMES INFINITE :mark:

Other than the really disappointing Women's 4 way (it was ok, but that's about it. Underwhelmed for what it could have been.) the rest of the card was a total blast. 

I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooved that War Games match. What a riot. so many good moments, everybody came to fight (Dain & AoP :mark, which is great to see. We even got blood - for better or worse, as far as Wolfe is concerned, damn the guy kept on going. Cole getting over huge w/this at the end. I already want to watch it again.

Black vs Dream was fantastic, such an interesting way to put it together, and not only does Black continue to look outstanding, Dream showed up in the best way. The Rick Rude homages everywhere. Even the sell mid hip swivel on the top rope. Great job. 

McIntyre vs Almas was a battle, w/Drew maximizing his power advantage in a lot of neat ways. The use of nearfalls was unexpected, probs will look better on a rewatch, although I still was wholly into the match. The finish, holy crap. Then the result. Sanity beating AoP at Brooklyn III was a surprise, but this result blew it out of the water. Intrigued to see where the road of the new champion & former takes us en route to January. 

Lars vs Ohno was booked ideally. Ohno smacking around the monster, the monster taking it and smashing his way to sudden victory. Exactly how I figured & wanted it to go. Another home grown guy who came out looking good. I like that LARS is basically growing into a Braun-lite for the NXT roster. Guys getting over w/their one man destruction is always cool.

Still dunno why the women seemed so neutered in the long run. No Asuka and then they just kind of felt "there", & that's too bad. Crowd was clearly invested. Oh well, lets hope the next Takeover they'll be back to lighting the show on fire. Rest was still too good to be affected. This is why I gladly look forward to what NXT has up its sleeve.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Word going around is that Drew may have tore his bicep during the match. Don't know whether that changed the outcome or not, but either way... holy shit at the shock. I legit couldn't believe it when it happened. :lol

Drooling at the prospect of Almas vs. Cole, Aleister, and even another match with Gargano. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shit. I was hoping he was only selling for the angle/finish. :mj2

Well, either way, audible or not, I hope they run w/this. Plenty of good matches to make w/the roster. Black is rising, so he'll be sometime soon. Then of course Cole is there as the given. Always fun to see where the fallout of a Takeover will lead.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Obfuscation

HOLY FUUUUUUUUCK at that balls to the wall Juvi/Blitzkrieg/Psichosis/Rey four way match on the 04/19 Nitro.

Must have been 20 minutes of non stop action. Yeah you can pretty much throw any actual match structure out the window, but the match never let up. I thinks it's highly rated as one of the best Nitro matches and I really enjoyed it.

I also enjoyed the opening tag match: Benoit/Malenko vs Scott/Steve Armstrong.

Then we get to the whole Ric Flair situation. Roddy fucking Piper is back for this. He's discovered that Flair signed some papers on Thunder without actually looking at them first. And he also called himself the President of the United States once instead of just WCW. So now he's been stripped of power. But not before Flair/Piper have a match at Slamboree.

Fuck sake.

Before that though we got Flair/Nash on this Nitro. Which resulted in Flair being carted off to the insane asylum by men in white coats.

I found a good summation of this whole situation;

Ric Flair, the fourteen time World Heavyweight Champion and the President of WCW was put in a white van and taken away to a mental hospital after apparently thinking he was President of the United States due to what could easily be written off as a slip of the tongue. 

From what we can tell, David Flair and Piper decided to have Flair institutionalized because he signed a single contract for a match without looking at it. Yeah it’s stupid but it’s not really grounds for being institutionalized.

They pretty much surmised that Flair was 'insane' in the space of four days lol. Yeah I know he's been drunk with power since he beat Bischoff pretty much, but still.

But we did get a very good Page/Goldberg match to finish off Nitro. Not as good as Havoc of course but enjoyable before the inevitable cluster fuck finish.

Oh and this had to be one of the loudest crowds on Nitro I've ever heard. It was hot. Could barley hear the commentators at times (thx fans).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

for someone who doesn't watch much or any nxt really (but i'm interested in the war games watch), should i watch? 

i'll be avoiding spoilers tomorrow too for survivor series


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Everything after when aop entered the match :mark: BRILLIANT. 

I liked Damo pre-Nxt, but this is the first time I've been wow'd by him during this run as Dain. He had a shine segment during that match that was as entertaining as anything I've seen in wrestling this year, plus other really memorable moments. AOP moments obviously ruled but that should go without saying, although I feel they're harshly underrated in a lot of circles. LOVED the psychology of an escape equalling elimination. Just meant that there was a reason to go to the top of the cage to enjoy a respite from the utter madness, which could set up some non-contrived spots. Adam Cole slithering across the top like a slug could be a GOAT cowardly heel spot in the right hands within the context of those match rules btw. The finish could have been a little bit hotter, but I'm just nitpicking really. What a blast overall though!

Other thoughts:

That was a good showcase for Lars Sullivan, although I felt the finishing stretch verged into cartoony monster heel territory a little too much.

I've been a fan of Patrick Clark since tough enough, so I'm realy glad this Velveteen Dream gimmick is working out for him. There was a time where I thought it might bomb, but he's officially over now. That was a coming out party for him last night. His character work was on point throughout and the angle of him trying to gain Black's respect was cleverly woven into the match. Good stuff.

Didn't care for the women's match at all. A whole bunch of nothing. WWE fatal four ways tend to underwhelm and this was par for the course. Glad they didn't put the belt on Kairi straight away as the fun is in the chase. Moon would have probably been stuck with the big match perma-loser tag if she failed again here, so I can see why they went with her, although I could see this being a transitional reign to a heel who Kairi then chases up to Takeover:New Orleans.

Almas winning had me all :woytf :wtf2 :walphtf I'm not going to lie, I wasn't invested in the match at all as the build up did a rubbish job of making me believe he could win, to the point where I started playing fetch with my dog while the match was going. I'm not hugely into either Drew or Almas' personalities either, while Drew's last takeover main event kinda stunk to me, so it was uphill task to care from the start. Will have to "re-watch" this at some point.



Kenny said:


> for someone who doesn't watch much or any nxt really (but i'm interested in the war games watch), should i watch?
> 
> i'll be avoiding spoilers tomorrow too for survivor series


You should absolutely watch the war games match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't really follow NXT bar the odd Takeover match but ill have to check out the War Games match.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

The last 3 Takeovers have been amongst the best WWE shows this decade.

Lars/Ohno - **3/4
Black/Dream - ****1/2
Womens Four Way - ***1/2
McIntyre/Almas - ***3/4
War Games - ****1/4

The story telling in the Black/Dream match was the best I've seen in a WWE ring in a long, long time.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Haven't watched wrestling since No Mercy - looks like the latest NXT is worth the watch?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bonzo said:


> @Obfuscation
> 
> HOLY FUUUUUUUUCK at that balls to the wall Juvi/Blitzkrieg/Psichosis/Rey four way match on the 04/19 Nitro.
> 
> Must have been 20 minutes of non stop action. Yeah you can pretty much throw any actual match structure out the window, but the match never let up. I thinks it's highly rated as one of the best Nitro matches and I really enjoyed it.


Was a big fan of the match, too. Its nuts w/all they put into it. Ugly, but hectic & really capturing what was needed for the Cruiserweight division after a lot of appeal was missing for months. Knowing how bad Souled Out's 4 way stunk up the joint, then this came down the pike. Yay. 

Psychosis winning it all :monkey :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

what the fuck was that main event fpalm

NXT Takeover:

Lars/Ohno: whatever
Black/Dream: ****1/4
Women's: **1/2
McIntyre/Almas: ***1/2
WarGames: ****

Survivor Series:

Shield/New Day: ****
Women's tag: **1/4
Corbin/Miz: didn't pay attention
Usos/Bar: ***1/2
Charlotte/Bliss: didn't pay attention
Styles/Lesnar: ***1/2
Men's tag: *3/4


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Survivor Series 2017

Shield/New Day - ***1/4
Womens Elimination - **1/2
Miz/Corbin - **1/4
Usos/Bar - ***
Charlotte/Bliss - **3/4
Brock/AJ - ****1/4
Mens Elimination - DUD

Really good show until the horrible main event. The crowd were dead for the last 15 minutes and thanks to the worst booked match in years there was no suspense, no drama & nothing made sense at all. Absolutely terrible match. Shane was the last SD guy? WOW. Nakamura/Roode/Joe/Balor being the first to go is a joke too. Fuck Vince.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shield/New Day was fun but super fucking disjointed down the stretch. Had no rhythm and guys were standing around waiting for the next sequence.

Usos/Bar was really good from what I saw and Charlotte/Bliss wasn't bad either.

Styles/Lesnar I loved. Lesnar actually worked a legit match and it shocked me. Ragdolling segments were awesome and AJ had the crowd eating from his palm with the comebacks. **** and MOTN

Main event was a fucking mess. Idk what they were thinking with that finish. Match definitely peaked with the announce table spot and then Shane getting thrown off the top.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Think this was the first PPV I watched from one end to the other since Wrestlemania! Black vs. Dream from TakeOver nearly single-handedly brought me back to regular viewing, decided to give Survivor Series a chance, wasn't at all surprised :lmao

Ratings for TakeOver: 

Lars Sullivan vs. Kassius Ohno: ***3/4*
Aleister Black vs. Velveteen Dream: *****1/4* 
Women's Fatal 4-Way: Iunno, *****? Didn't pay much attention to it
Andrade Cien Almas vs. Drew McIntyre: ****1/2*
WarGames: ******


Ratings for... uuuuuuuuuuugh:

The Shield vs. The New Day: ****1/4*
Raw vs. SmackDown Women's 5-on-5: ***, and that star is for what I believe was Alicia getting pinned by accident? I love my girl's suplexes, but goddamn :lmao
Baron Corbin vs. The Miz: Didn't watch lol
Cesaro/Sheamus vs. Usos: ****1/2*
Charlotte vs. Alexa Bliss: Wasn't honestly paying much attention
AJ Styles vs. Brock Lesnar: **1/2* What the fuck was this? Sloppy, disjointed, wasn't a squash but was so unconvincing when it got "competitive". Just plain shit.
Raw vs. SmackDown 5-on-5: Hilarious :lol


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Some stars for the weekend -

Ohno/Sullivan - Watchable hard-hitting brawl. ***
Black/Dream - Star-making performance from Dream and exactly what Black needed to do to get some notoriety. ****
Womens 4 - Didn't really pay attention
Almas/Drew - Typical NXT Title match imo. Does enough while not doing more. ***1/4
WarGames - I don't believe they told the story well enough before the match to explain why this is WarGames. The lack of a babyface team and keeping Strong's (the only babyface) heat selectively to Adam Cole gave this limited potential. He should've had some drama with Sanity and AOP. He should've 100% been the focus of this match and it would've created an emotional one and a good story. It would have got everyone over had the focus been Strong. Considering that they went with a spotfest (nothing wrong with that) since they couldn't execute a story in the way WarGames is meant to, it was a great hard-hitting spotfest. ***1/2

Shield vs New Day - Basically "alright". Good hot run at the end. ***1/4
Usos vs Bar - Went the other way as Shield/New Day but came out at about the same quality. ***1/4
Brock vs AJ - Saw some feedback critical of Brock throughout the match but the bastard killed it. His selling was incredible and his bumping (while looking reckless) was phenomenal because it really wasn't reckless. AJ was AJ, got the crowd behind him like no one and gave a few fantastic moments that sold the possibility of him getting a win. Just a fantastic match. ****1/2
Mens 5 on 5 - No qualms with the direction of the match they went in regarding pecking order and the ending. But the match was atrocious. No urgency, few guys took it like a day at the races. None of the guys showed any reason why they were selected except Braun, HHH, Angle and Shane. Did not feel like it was 10 main event talents and the wrestling was void of anything that made these talents stand out. A vehicle for a story that no one really wants to be told.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

That Brock/AJ match made all of the con-competitive Brock matches worth it. It worked so well because you believe that there is a chance that Brock will legitimately destroy just about anyone in 2 minutes. When Brock took control early on I was worried that the match could realistically end right away. And for the entire duration of the match you knew it could end at any second. It didn't matter that it was a big show and the match had been going on for 6 minutes, it could end in 6 minutes. 

It made me appreciate Brock a lot more and what he's been doing the last few years. His matches are like a real heavyweight title fight. He could win in 30 seconds or he could go the distance in his match. And at any time during the match whether it be in the first round or 30 seconds before the last round ends he could win. 

I think the sense that the match could legitimately end at time really makes Brock's matches more enjoyable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kickoff series of matches was weak. Kalisto botching his entrance was almost the highlight of the entire PPV. Be lying if I said Zayn & Owens calling Breezango a joke didn't please me greatly; then proceed to half ass the match w/them by mostly using a chinlock to keep the geeks down before winning.

Shield vs New Day sucked. 21 minutes, lmao.

women's elimination match was pathetic.

Miz vs Corbin was nothing. Curtis Axel looking like Joel Gertner was hilarious.

Usos vs Bar sucked (fuckin hell... even these guys didn't give a damn)

Charlotte vs Bliss ughhhhhhhhhhh. Garbage. Who's the idiot thinking Bliss can work 15 minute matches w/her on top?

Brock vs Styles, holy cow it was actually a match. And good. But I have a bone to pick w/WWE considering they didn't let this go on last, which really did hurt the credibility of the nearfalls. Before anyone assumes that as nitpicking, no, it isn't. Why? Easy, b/c we all knew Brock was winning. HOWEVER, had this gone on last and w/the whole "RAW & SD are tied so lets see who takes it" bollocks they're spinning, it could have earned those Styles nearfall/Calf Crusher spots actual drama behind em in possibly thinking the upset was in reach. They weren't bad, far from it of course, but just not really anything to ultimately buy into - like they 100% could have been - thanks to knowing WWE transparent booking wouldn't allow the ten man elimination to follow happen w/o letting it be the "final match to decide the winner of the night." That's a shame. Aside from that, yeah, this was quite a good time. Only 4 german suplexes by Brock. Rest was actual OFFENSE. Amazing. He's still alive in there, just needed the right scenario for him to put it together. And he's throwing knees. What a threat. He felt monstrous, violent, & unpredictable again. Bless Styles & his good comebacks. A bit more lauded than I'd say though. Like its getting Punk vs Brock comments and I absolutely don't see that in the slightest. I guess when the rest of the show is the joke you expect, a match actually being good emphasizes things too much. Idk. Whatever. Yay for this being something.

It's truly sad at how well I called that entire main event. Like, I didn't even laugh that much b/c it was that obvious to me. Yikes. Duh the match was horrible. At least I got all 10 match predictions right. Well, this means nothing b/c I'm the dummy who DOESN'T find someone to bet money on this. That's about 4-5 PPVs in a row I've called everything spot on and I should be making money off the awfulness. Instead I'm just watching and moaning about it on the internet. Nobody can win w/this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:brock bringing some variable offense again :done

His selling was spot on too. So many memorable spots and counters from the match too. That Styles clash attempt>F5 attempt>into the calf crusher was excellent.

As was Lesnar ragdolling AJ around at the start. Running knee :mark: Superb belly to belly.

Styles also sold the suplexes as well as anyone I've seen too. I would have loved Brock to bust out the backbreaker too tbh but I'm pleased with what we got.

That shadow boxing bit :done

Great match. Still rank the Punk match higher if I'm honest and ill have to think about the Reigns match. I'm just glad it turned out as well as it did.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I thought Survivor Series was actually pretty good. Shield/New Day was good but not great and had the usual problem of nothing before the home stretch meant or did anything. Those Shield t-shirts were atrocious. Love Roman being above this red/blue nonsense. Commentary was fucking awful all night btw. All the Raw Women running off screaming after the pep talk from Mama Steph was the worst burial in the history of the company. GEEKS. Womens tag was totally nothing. Corbin/Miz I actually really enjoyed. Don't ask me why but it just all clicked for me. The Bar/Usos was good but not as hot as their mini match last year. Charlotte/Alexa was too long and never clicked. I love Alexa but her matches aren't good and Charlotte just isn't as good working babyface. Brock/AJ was great. The only downside of it was making me mad that we can't get a Brock match like this more often. This put AJ over far more than beating anyone on Smackdown could do for him. Brock's selling was awesome. That counter for the calf crusher was awesome. I'm more hopeful for Brock/Reigns again now. Main event was an easy watch until the second half of it. I didn't think any of the early pairings were on fire but the fresh dynamics were... well fresh. My theory that Cena is just totally phoning it in now gains even more traction. Dude did not give a fuck at all here. He didn't even put his blue shirt on! Angle looked even worse than at TLC. Thought it was super interesting that Hunter and Shane barely did anything together. Finish was classic Hunter but it's all good because he put Braun over at the end. 

NXT show was good as all Takeovers are. Lars/Ohno was good for what it was which is also what it should have been. I like Lars but he needs a couple of really impressive signature spots. That finisher looked shit. Ohno just looks so terrible in the jersey. Dream/Black was great. Awesome blend of character work and action. I don't have any interest in Black working a Finn Balor style match but I'll give WWE credit that they've given him a character that brings something to the table. Dream is awesome and showed he could hang in the ring as well. Those tights! This is what wrestling should be about. Just a notch below Bate/Dunne and AOP/DIY for my favourite WWE match this year. Camera work was horrific though. Totally missed Black stealing Dream's pose, cut to a replay as Black was setting up for his finish and then missed the actual finish. It was really bad along the same lines during the main event too. Womens match I had nothing to take away from it other than Peyton Royce is very pretty. Kairi was a total afterthought and my dream Kairi vs Asuka streak vs streak match is already over. Yipee. I figured Almas would win as soon as Drew was dominating the opening five minutes because that's the babyface champion is losing 101. Match was dull when Drew was on top but got really good once Almas came into the match more. That headscissors spot that Vega did with Strong was other world awesome and I loved Drew countering it here. Bunch of really good near falls. Drew's finisher stinks. Almas winning was surprising in that I didn't think it stood a chance until I saw how the match was playing out. Vega's a great addition and I'm just glad that they're doing something with the guy that's working. I'm still not really over the idea that they unmasked him and made him work like a heavyweight but I suppose he'd be like Metalik if that was the case and that'd be even worse. Thought the sell of the thrill of victory and agony of defeat after was awesome but I guess Drew was just selling busting his arm up. Sucks for the guy if he's out past Mania but I've also not at all been into his run so far. War Games absolutely stunk until everyone was in the match. It didn't feel at all like War Games. That's not a bad or a good thing, just a thing. War Games was overrated to high heaven as a gimmick though so I'm really not too fussed. Once Sanity got in it at least got easy to watch. I wouldn't call it good because I'm struggling to think of good things about the match but it was a fun watch. AoP are like the best guys in the entire company. Roddy wearing the gear was nowhere near as good as Angle in The Shield getup. Finally saw something in Dain in this too. You know Hunter was so behind Dain doing the coast to coast the night before a Shane match. That sly motherfucker. I'd be furious if I was Shane but I don't think Shane probably watches NXT and Shane getting pissy about a wrestler stealing his shtick would be 10/10. Finish was super weak given what came before it. None of the ROH guys impressed in this imo but thankfully the meatheads overdelivered for them.*


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

@Bonzo why did you insist that I watch AJ/Brock? :armfold












I'm trying to permanently quit WWE and that motherfuckin' Styles has to go and produce good matches with Jinder Mahal and 2017 Lesnar, in the same month, no less. 

:wtf2

Kudos to Lesnar btw, that was far from a Styles carry job. Almost makes me want to see a title unification (not happening) re-match at Mania (not happening) with AJ going over (not happening). That or Braun vs Brock II with Braun crushing Brock.

One can dream :hoganinbred


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Andre said:


> @Bonzo why did you insist that I watch AJ/Brock? :armfold
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Welcome back to the darkside :vince

:brock

Yeah I've seen that 'carry job' term mentioned here before and that wasn't the case. No doubt AJ bought a lot to the table and was a perfect match up for Brock, but Lesnar was excellent. His offense was focused and more varied and the first 5 minutes were just wonderful.

His selling and timing was spot on and you could tell he loved being in that sort of match up again too.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Were Backlash & No Mercy from last year not released on DVD? Looking to complete my collection but can't seem to find these 2 events


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is there really a Styles carry job thing going around for Brock/Styles? 

'kin hell.

If anyone specifically stood out w/a strong showing, it was Brock. I know he's been a lazy shit for a long time, but I'm begging the gimmick of today's wrestling fan to calm down.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

still haven't watched war games yet. people in this thread love it, other threads not so much. what to do :hmm: 

watch brock/aj Andre


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Is there really a Styles carry job thing going around for Brock/Styles?
> 
> 'kin hell.
> 
> If anyone specifically stood out w/a strong showing, it was Brock. I know he's been a lazy shit for a long time, but I'm begging the gimmick of today's wrestling fan to calm down.


Not sure if it's common but I've read a couple of posts on here calling it a carry job and it's rubbish. Yeah AJ got a lot of shit in as he should have, that doesn't mean Brick can't wrestle or he doesn't suddenly know what he's doing.

Even with the duplex gimmick he's very aware if what he's doing in there and he showed it in that match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> Were Backlash & No Mercy from last year not released on DVD? Looking to complete my collection but can't seem to find these 2 events


If you're in the US, WWE releases their lesser PPVs in 2-packs on DVD. Payback & Backlash were together: http://shop.wwe.com/wwe-payback-and-backlash-2017-double-feature-dvd/W13588.html

No Mercy & Hell in a Cell are together: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wwe-no...ffcode=pg201033&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2



Kenny said:


> still haven't watched war games yet. people in this thread love it, other threads not so much. what to do :hmm:


This is the only thread that matters. Give it a watch.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Corey said:


> If you're in the US, WWE releases their lesser PPVs in 2-packs on DVD. Payback & Backlash were together: http://shop.wwe.com/wwe-payback-and-backlash-2017-double-feature-dvd/W13588.html
> 
> No Mercy & Hell in a Cell are together: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wwe-no...ffcode=pg201033&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2
> 
> ...


I'm in the UK. Found all of them but those 2. Might have to get the US version.

Edit: those links are this year's. I'm on about last year's. First and second Smackdown ppvs after the brand split (I think)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> I'm in the UK. Found all of them but those 2. Might have to get the US version.


I fucked up and misread your post, ignore that I apologize. You said LAST year and I linked you to this year's. Whoops

I can't find last year's either


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Corey said:


> I fucked up and misread your post, ignore that I apologize. You said LAST year and I linked you to this year's. Whoops
> 
> I can't find last year's either


Damn, that sucks. Will have every ppv from Wrestlemania 1 onwards except those two.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Bonzo said:


> Not sure if it's common but I've read a couple of posts on here calling it a carry job and it's rubbish. Yeah AJ got a lot of shit in as he should have, that doesn't mean Brick can't wrestle or he doesn't suddenly know what he's doing.
> 
> Even with the duplex gimmick he's very aware if what he's doing in there and he showed it in that match.


Yeah I've seen posts saying he's lazy and worst saying that he can't wrestle smh

Some people don't understand that gimmicks and characters are a factor in how people wrestle.

Kevin Nash was not gonna go hold for hold with someone cause that wasn't what his character was about. 

Expecting every performer to wrestle the same is silly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, there is no denying Brock's lack of interest as of late. And the german suplex gimmick was more laziness than full blown "this is all I need to do". That's a given. But its neither here nor there w/the Styles match, and that's the point. Clearly he was highly involved, had a great showing, put Styles over, etc. 

@Kenny if you've moderately enjoyed any, or most, WWE gimmick matches from this year, there's no way you wouldn't dig War Games.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Watched The Great American Bash 1989 on the Network, or some of it, on the Network recently while doing some research for WarGames.

Sting vs. Muta was a lot of fun. It's really cool to see Sting back in his prime and see how much raw energy and athleticism he had. That dive he did from one ring to another was awesome. Also cool to see Muta from his prime (was that his prime?) and how unique of a performer he was.

The WarGames match was really good. I think if this match and the one we just saw at Takeover proved anything, it's that WarGames is made for big beefy dudes. Watching the match at Takeover, it really didn't get going until AOP got in the match and just started wrecking shit. And if you asked me who was the MVP of the match, it was Killian Dane, another big beefy dude.

And in this match, you had Dr. Death, The Road Warriors, The Samoans all doing work. Each time one of these guys came in, the energy in the building went up. Animal and Hawk were throwing guys all around. Doing shoulder blocks off the top and from ring to ring. And Dr. Death had a spot where he had Gordy in a Military Press position and kept elevating him into the top of the cage, which was also awesome.

Michael Hayes was doing his trash talking, guys like Garvin and Eaton were bumping all around, it was just really fun to watch. Felt like it ended to soon but still really good.

All I knew going into Flair vs. Funk in the main event is that apparently Funk had attacked Flair months before and damaged his neck. Commentary was playing up hard to that. Haven't seen a lot younger Funk but it's clear he was a wild man out there. I liked the start with Ric taking it to him on the outside.

And for a bit of revenge, Flair dropped Funk with 2 Piledrivers before going for the Figure Four, until Funk countered with a branding iron which of course, caused Ric to bleed.

They had a great tease on the outside where Funk was going to Piledrive Flair on the concrete outside before Ric countered with a Back Body Drop. Also a funny spot where Funk slipped on the apron and and just barely hit Flair, but Flair still sold it anyway, lol.

Flair eventually counters back and hits Funk with the branding iron himself. And it ends very out of nowhere, IMO, with Flair rolling up Funk out of the Spinning Toe Hold.

The brawl with Sting/Flair and Muta/Funk was cool as well. The crowd was going crazy. And the image of a Flair with blood in is hair and his face and green mist on his face cutting a promo to end the show was surreal, lol.

I hope to cage more old WCW shows in the future.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In terms of Flair/Funk: GAB>COTC

Love the Bash match


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Obfuscation said:


> Well, there is no denying Brock's lack of interest as of late. And the german suplex gimmick was more laziness than full blown "this is all I need to do". That's a given. But its neither here nor there w/the Styles match, and that's the point. Clearly he was highly involved, had a great showing, put Styles over, etc.
> 
> @Kenny if you've moderately enjoyed any, or most, WWE gimmick matches from this year, there's no way you wouldn't dig War Games.


Where are these signs of his lack of interest? I watched all of Lesnar matches before "Suplex City" twice and he wasn't doing much then either. "Suplex City" caught fire and the company went with it, we ask all the time why WWE don't capitalize on something and in 2015 they did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bonzo said:


> In terms of Flair/Funk: GAB>COTC
> 
> Love the Bash match


GAB is the tops. Perfect match.



bme said:


> Where are these signs of his lack of interest? I watched all of Lesnar matches before "Suplex City" twice and he wasn't doing much then either. "Suplex City" caught fire and the company went with it, we ask all the time why WWE don't capitalize on something and in 2015 they did.


It's all p. obvious to see a match where Brock is game to give it his all, and the ones where he isn't. 

Suplex City gimmick wasn't anything that needed to go beyond the Cena matches. Especially when it didn't put down Reigns at WM. Stopping it there would have been ideal. Of course, WWE shoves it into the ground and it gets real old, real quick.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

thanks my dudes. i think i'll watch war games in a couple of hours.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Wonder if they'll ever release Takeovers on DVD. Would be a cool little set to have. Failing that they could add them as s bonus on the big 4 dvd sets.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny :mark:

I'd love to get the Takeovers on DVD/Blu Ray. Doubt it at this rate. They probably want to keep them a WWE Network exclusive. Pardon whatever matches make specific sets that get released.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Obfuscation said:


> GAB is the tops. Perfect match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Suplex City got over after WM31 and it's still over. It's something that fans look forward to and expect from Lesnar now.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Starting my journey of watching more WCW starting with the first thing they had on the Network with Starrcade 1983. I won't lie and say I watch everything, but these are thoughts I had on what I did watch.

Saw 2 tag team matches with Bob Orton Jr. & Dick Slater vs. Mark Youngblood & Wahoo McDaniel and the other being The Brisco Brothers vs. Jay Youngblood & Ricky Steamboat.

Both pretty good tag teams, with the Steamboat match being the best. It's fun watching old Steamboat matches and discovering just how quick and fluid he was in the ring. Both these matches also featured something I wish we would see more in modern day tag wrestling and that's the quick tags. In these matches you would see a guy tag in, do a move, and in less than 5 seconds, tag back out. Quick and constant action that wears down your opponent. Again, I wish we would see more of today.

The Dog Collar match with Piper and Valentine was just presented as a pure fight. Piper with his crazed antics in the ring is the perfect guy for this kind of match. I liked the story of Valentine going after his injured ear and the image of Piper with blood on half of his face. Finish was kind of "meh" I guess but an entertaining brawl.

And then the main event. You know, when WWE puts together these video packages with clips from 30 years ago, it always makes me wonder when these moments actually happened. Well, now I know where the image of Ric coming out in the smoke and darkness comes from. It was from his entrance here, which was great btw. The music beforehand and the crowd reaction was great.

The match itself was exactly what a cage match should be. A bloodbath that keeps the action in the ring and no one gets involved. I audibly laughed when the announcer said the cage was to prevent outside interference, lol. Because you sure as hell don't see that today.

Race just punished Flair throughout the first half the match. Using his knee over and over again, throwing Flair into the cage, big power moves, everything. And then Flair made his comeback which was great. I enjoyed the referee (whose name I forget) constantly dragging these guys away from each other by the hair. I haven't seen a lot of old Flair matches, so seeing him win with a Top Rope Flying Crossbody was a surprise. But still, great match.

Going to watch Starrcade 84, or at least the parts I want to, when I can.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Race is trash. Kiniski ruins a lot of it, the fuck. Not to mention feels like Race was on autopilot. Probs b/c he didn't care for Flair taking the torch. Their non-gimmick match prior to Starrcade is much better.

Piper vs Valentine is a front-runner for best match of the 80's. Well, best match period. Beyond grand.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, Flair/Race is boring as shit. Piper/Valentine though :trips5.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I might dig out that WWE Starrcade DVD and watch Piper/Valentine again. Plus maybe Magnum/Blanchard.

A best of Starrcade list would be timing :hmmm

There was a tag match from '86 I think I've been meaning to watch. Rock n roll Express/Anderson's.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Gonna start a marathon of watching all in your house events. This should be illuminating.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> Gonna start a marathon of watching all in your house events. This should be illuminating.


There's certainly a few gems in those shows tbh despite the lack of overall quality in a lot of the events as a whole. I did compile a best of list once.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Bonzo said:


> There's certainly a few gems in those shows tbh despite the lack of overall quality in a lot of the events as a whole. I did compile a best of list once.


My first ever VHS was an in your house event. The one with goldust debuting (4 I think). And remember marking hard when Warrior and Ahmed helped HBK against Camp Cornette.
@Bonzo do any of them feature the midgets? I used to find Max Mini cool :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> My first ever VHS was an in your house event. The one with goldust debuting (4 I think). And remember marking hard when Warrior and Ahmed helped HBK against Camp Cornette.
> @Bonzo do any of them feature the midgets? I used to find Max Mini cool :lmao


This was the list i made. It's padded out as i did plan on putting a custom comp together of it at one point. Plus some of these I don't remember much of tbh. I'm at Backlash '99 atm so I'll judge that myself soon.

Bret Hart vs Hakushi - WWF In Your House 1
Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Jarrett - WWF In Your House 2
Yokozuna & Owen Hart vs Lex Luger & British Bulldog - WWF In Your House 2
Bret Hart vs Jean Pierre Lafitte - WWF: In Your House 3
Diesel & Shawn Michaels & Yokozuna & Owen Hart (Intercontinental/WWF/Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 3
Dean Douglas vs Razor Ramon (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 4
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 5
Razor Ramon & Marty Jannetty vs Sycho Sid & 123 Kid - WWF In Your House 5
Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart - WWF In Your House 6
Bret Hart vs Diesel (WWF Championship - Steel Cage) - WWF In Your House 6
Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Vader vs Razor Ramon - WWF: In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
Steve Austin vs Savio Vega (Carribean Strap Match) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
Vader, British Bulldog & Owen Hart vs Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sycho Sid - WWF: In Your House 9: International Incident
Shawn Michaels vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames
The Undertaker vs Goldust (Final Curtain Match) - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames 
The Undertaker vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Vader - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Bret Hart (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 12: It's Time
Bret Hart vs Vader vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon vs Owen Hart & British Bulldog (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
Vader vs Ken Shamrock (No Holds Barred) - WWF In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog & Brian Pillman vs Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion Of Doom - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
The Undertaker vs Vader (WWF Championship) - WWF: In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
The Great Sasuke vs Taka Michinoku - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero
Bret Hart vs The Patriot - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs The Patriot & Vader (Flag Match) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Brian Christopher vs Taka Michinoku (WWF Light Heavyweight Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X
Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X
Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie Vs Triple H, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn and "mystery partner" - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out 
Vader vs Kane - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out
Kane vs The Undertaker (Inferno Match) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven
Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven
Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 22: Over The Edge
Kane & Mankind vs The Undertaker & Steve Austin (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
The Rock vs Triple H (WWF Intercontinental Championship - 2/3 Falls) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
Ken Shamrock vs The Rock vs Mankind (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown
Steve Austin vs Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown
Ken Shamrock vs Mankind (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day
Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship match) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day
Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Buried Alive Match) - WWF In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
Steve Austin vs Mr.McMahon (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
Mankind vs The Rock (WWF Championship - Last man Standing) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
Steve Austin vs The Rock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Ken Shamrock vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Mankind vs The Big Show (Boiler Room Brawl) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I remember most of those. I do remember in your house mostly being a one match card though. Been so long since I've seen them though. Completed the whole UK version of tagged classics recently  I love them because there's no blur or anything censored (unless it was in the original Silvervision release). They go from Wrestlemania 1 to Backlash 2002 barring Over the Edge 99 as it was never released.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> I remember most of those. I do remember in your house mostly being a one match card though. Been so long since I've seen them though. Completed the whole UK version of tagged classics recently  I love them because there's no blur or anything censored (unless it was in the original Silvervision release). They go from Wrestlemania 1 to Backlash 2002 barring Over the Edge 99 as it was never released.


Yeah I've got most of the TC too. Just missing WM 1-4, Survivor Series 88/89 and I think the NWO/Razor Ramon set. They're certainly very handy to have, esp the AE PPVs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Razor vs Jarrett/The Roadie (IYH 1) & Mankind vs Henry Godwinn (International Incident) are two matches from IYH shows that are worth nothing. Both are a blast.

Dig King vs Bret from the first show, too. Bret vs Hakushi doesn't hold up like it used to. That was a bummer.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Razor vs Jarrett/The Roadie (IYH 1) & Mankind vs Henry Godwinn (International Incident) are two matches from IYH shows that are worth nothing. Both are a blast.
> 
> Dig King vs Bret from the first show, too. Bret vs Hakushi doesn't hold up like it used to. That was a bummer.


Wasn't the Mankind match changed on the day? Think he was originally set to face Jake Roberts. Could be wrong though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Not originally scheduled, but the given match was a nice hoss fight, iirc.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Godwinn had a decent run considering the shit Gimmick. Read an interview that he and Dan Severn were gonna be members of the Ministry, but both turned it down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was a fan. Phinneas, not so much. But ol Hank was swell. Figured he turned down the Ministry offer due to retiring from his neck injury(ies). Largely what I've known his tenure to end on, to this point.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I remember them bringing him back in the mid 00s. Never understood why they had him in DSW and not the main roster. Mind you they did the same with Gangrel.

As for Phineas I always had a soft spot for the Ministry Mideon. But that might be because the company he was keeping, rather than him. His eyeball shirt was cool though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still wonder if Taker wanted Godfather to join the Ministry b/c he's another of his pals. I hope he offered, then Godfather said no b/c he had a feeling the gimmick would get hot soon. :monkey


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

There were stirrings of going back to Papa Shango back then, so I'm sure the idea cropped up at some point. I know Mabel was never in the original plans.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A Papa Shango return for the Ministry. :done


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pretty good Kidman/Malenko/Benoit vs Rey/Saturn/Raven match on the 04/22/99 Thunder. The episode is on YT;


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Huh. I wonder if they elaborate why Kidman & Rey are on different teams or not. Unsure w/Nash's hectic booking. Especially w/Thunder.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Any body watch the West Texas ******** vs The Jersey Triad match from WCW Thunder 1999 ,It's short but fun match to watch as everybody in both groups got to wrestle (Freebird Rule).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If there's actually a ******** match that doesn't suck, I'm all for it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have to admit I don't think I watched any Thunders back in the day.

Anything I should actually check out?


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Kenny said:


> I have to admit I don't think I watched any Thunders back in the day.
> 
> Anything I should actually check out?


Some youtube channels have full Thunder episodes I think Rassle Reel or how ever to spell it has a list of Thunder shows , There are some good matches from Thunder despite what some people say. Check out Hogan vs Curt Hening, Raven vs Benoit, or any DDP matches from thunder


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I should have made a note of a few notable matches since I've watched most of them up until April '99 now. But I didn't. 

I'll try and think of a few.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP matches :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rey Misterio Jr vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 1/15/98)
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Chris Jericho & Eddy Guerrero (Thunder 1/29/98)
Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (Thunder 6/11/98)
Rey vs. Juventud (Thunder 11/12/98)
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Horace & Brian Adams (Cage Match) (Thunder 2/18/99)
Dean Malenko/Chris Benoit/Kidman vs Rey/Raven/Saturn (Thunder 4/22/99)
Chris Benoit vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Thunder 5/27/99) 
Ric Flair vs. Chris Benoit (Thunder 6/3/99)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Psicosis (Thunder 6/24/99)

I haven't seen Eddy Guerrero vs. Psicosis yet, but i'm looking forward to it.

There's obviously a few more good matches but no way i can remember them all TBH.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Decided to watch from Rumble 95 to the end of the F in 2002 instead of just in your house events. There's some decent events before 95, but it was the year I fully remember as a kid, and tbh I'm not that keen on the older slower style that seemed to change IMO in 96ish.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:flairdance

Just got to this exact moment in WCW '99 :cozy 

Charles Robinson now in charge.

Well Piper is still claiming to be in charge. Even though Flair fired him last week after Piper fired Flair, had him carted away they're having a match at Slamboree for control.

:hutz madness I tells you

I love how Flair has seemingly accepted where he is after just one week lol. As he was committed under such flimsy conditions.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I remember a guy posting all nitro and thunder from 99 to 01 (along with ppvs) on YouTube years ago. 

Approaching the end of 99 was just too much of a mindfuck for me. People would come and go on a whim, turns left and right, 24 title changes a week & quite frankly I can see why it got cancelled. There were a few things I enjoyed (3 Count/Jung Dragons, The Wall [before his push was crushed], was kinda cool seeing the Millionaires Club) but in the end it all meant nothing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Holy fuck Sting/DDP is just as great as ever.

That reverse tombstone spot :banderas

The ganso bomb :banderas

Match just builds and builds into a huge crescendo. No commercials either which was a nice change. Great crowd, great heat and legit great work. DDP was great in control and Sting gave one of his most inspired performances. The Sting of '98 was forgotten and he was back as one of the best babyfaces around.

Probably still the best Nitro match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Scott Hall for some reason just randomly shown up in the mental hospital, in patient clothes, throws a tooth pick at Flair, didn't say a word and nobody mentioned it and I don't think he actually returns to Nitro yet either or even if this is ever talked about again. :lmao

:bosque


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Has TRIPLE A been on yet?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup :bosque


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Imagine doing that stuff today :lmao. A bunch of retards screaming WOOOO while Flair dances around in his robe and underpants demanding that Nitro be aired in the mental home :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When DDP vs Sting happens, and you know its great, but Flair in the mental institution overshadows it. 

Justified. :creepybraun


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Scott Hall appearance cracked me up though. It's like only Flair and the viewers watching at home could see him because nobody mentioned him. Not even Tony/Tenay. It was never bought up.

Sting/DDP just rules the world tho.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

How the hell did the Harris Bros stay so long in the business? Absolute dogshit. Just seeing them noe as the Blu Brothers, forgot that was a thing :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:bosque


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shenanigans. 

That answer can work for both the Scott Hall situation & the Harris Bros. making the rounds in WWF, WCW, ECW, & TNA.

Unsure what my pick for best Nitro match is. Hmm.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Juvi/Blitzkrieg/Psichosis/Rey four way match on the 04/19 Nitro is certainly another strong contender but Sting/DDP takes it for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A certain Eddie/Benoit match probably makes my #1 Nitro match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Sting/DDP takes it for me too. Absolutely love that match. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Emperor Palpatine

What's your thoughts on Taker/Shamrock from Backlash? I appreciated what they tried to do and for Taker esp, it seemed the sort of match he could have had later in his career tbh. It had it's moments and it was interesting seeing them go this way but it was pretty aimless and flat overall.

Show/Mankind was fun and violent though. One of the ending images looks straight out of horror too










I've always much preferred Rock/Austin here than their WM15 match too. Think they were only in the ring for like 1/4 of the match if That, but all the brawling on the outside was more intense and interesting than their WM match a month prior IMO.

HHH/Xpac was fine too tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Boring as shit. Those are my thoughts.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was interesting seeing them go this way but it was pretty aimless and flat overall. I bet seeing that kind of approach in WWF in '99 in a match must have been a 'And what's this exactly' moment tho.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

99 wasn't a good year for ppv IMO. Well not until about Unforgiven anyways.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best Nitro match for me is either Sting/DDP or Regal/Psicosis.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> A certain Eddie/Benoit match probably makes my #1 Nitro match.


Just watched that for the first time in a while and holy fuck at that powerbomb










Fantastic pace for the entire 10 or so minutes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That powerbomb is ingrained into my memory. Always the first thing I think of when I hear Nitro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THAT POWERBOMB is the official term to acknowledge the match. That's a good shout. As is Regal vs Psicosis kada

There's that Mike Enos vs Chris Jericho match from the nWo Nitro that's sticking out to me too, b/c I friggin dig it a whole bunch.

I always liked Taker vs Shamrock. Been a bit since last seen, but always dug the MMA essence. And liked to joke that the crowd was dead b/c it wasn't a standard brawl. (plus it went 18 minutes, so their attention span was shot)

And Rock vs Austin from WM 15 is one of the most underrated main events around. I love it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Apart from the excellent Raven/Saturn vs Benoit/Malenko vs Rey/Kidman opener. This was the the best spot of Slamboree '99 so far......


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Imagine how the show is for those who don't even like the opener. 8*D

but no lie, George vs Little Naitch does rule.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When I said so far in my above post.......that was it. PPV was a bust outside of those moments. Sting/Goldberg was pretty shitty, Piper/Flair obviously dragged and Page/Nash was awful too.

Plus bischoff randomly returned and fuck knows who's actually in charge.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Good god, Wrestlemania 11 must be one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Never saw it till today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steve "Mongo" McMichael ringside for a WrestleMania main event :monkey


----------



## 4Beer (Dec 3, 2017)

So yeah, I haven't followed wrestling or this forum since 2011. Nice to see that there still are some same posters here.

Anyways, after catching up to some of the recent shit that has happened, I started watching RAW from beginning of 2004. Benoit vs. Michaels from February was a match that I much looked forward seeing again. It turned out to be sort...dunno, maybe disappointing. First half of the match was slow and even a little sloppy. The pace picked up in the second half and there were some interesting spots, but the ending with Hunter interfering was lazy and annoying. Of course it was just a TV match so maybe my expectations were too high. Anyways I'm still looking forward to their WHC match later in 2004 and I feel like WWE dropped the ball for never having this matchup on a PPV.

Haven't used snowflakes in ages, but I don't think it's over 3 stars for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Samoa Joe vs Titus O'Neil match on RAW this week. The swift, ugly fight I had hoped it could be. Titus getting Joe all out of sorts, trash talking while bashing him in the corner all before the sudden submission victory; felt...fresh. And legit per competition. Comparative to the usual format for WWE. Fun times.

Kind of dug Reigns vs Elias (Samson), too. Basic, but nothing wrong w/basic. Really underlined the lowkey dynamic that Reigns can thrive in & compel most in the audience to support him. It isn't like he wasn't well received the week before vs The Miz, but the consistency is helpful.

Why do I still watch? idk. Maybe little things like these. Just have to tune out that commentary.


----------



## 4Beer (Dec 3, 2017)

I watched one of my favorite matches, Batista vs. Triple H HIAC. I really like their whole feud, with slow buildup etc. One small problem though is that after this match, Batista looked a fricking demigod and there's no realistic way for anyone on SD! 05 roster to go over him cleanly (expect for 'Taker of course). I also though it was sort of hilarious in kayfabe that Triple H wanted be locked inside the cage with the monster like Batista, who had already kicked Hunter's ass twice.

Anyways, the match itself is a fast paced bloodbath (but you probably knew that already). My favorite match of '05, which is saying a lot because it was a great year.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Fun fact: the WWF title never changed hands at an in your house event. The champion always successfully defended.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Kind of dug Reigns vs Elias (Samson), too. Basic, but nothing wrong w/basic. Really underlined the lowkey dynamic that Reigns can thrive in & compel most in the audience to support him. It isn't like he wasn't well received the week before vs The Miz, but the consistency is helpful.


Elias was so damn impressive in that match. That flying knee, top rope elbow, and electric chair powerbomb mark were NICE. Just wish the match didn't end so abruptly cause I was diggin it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Enforcers (Arn Anderson/Larry Zybysko) vs Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (WCW Clash of the Champions 17)

Steamers return match :done

Ricky comes out dressed in a dragon costume. Windham has a bad hand so Steamer is the sub.

What a substitute eh.

I just love Arn's reaction to seeing the Steamboat reveal.

"NOT RICKY STEAMBOAT!"

Fuck this match is awesome. Steamer just comes straight and nails Arn and just goes on a babyface rampage. When the enforcers take over they just put on a masterclass in heel tag teaming.

Super hot crowd too and it's one of those matches that you are soooooooo glad lived up to the names that are involved. A great tag team match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey said:


> Elias was so damn impressive in that match. That flying knee, top rope elbow, and electric chair powerbomb mark were NICE. Just wish the match didn't end so abruptly cause I was diggin it.


More matches should end like that today, if you ask me. Reigns finding a hole in the game of his opponent to strategically hit his booming finisher in the blink of an eye. Only sends the credibility of the finisher home more, lets Elias feel like victory was more in reach that was snatched away, + it combats the notion that EVERY match in the world of wrestling today has to take it home in the same "hot" finishing stretch.

Elias' new crop of offense was good times. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the 'other' Steamer/Rude match from Superbrawl and it's an excellent match too IMO. Loved Rude going for Steamboat's neck and Steamboat going for the arm of Rude, who's selling was great.

Rude esp was great here in full on heel mode. The heat he got in his pre match promo from the crowd was insane. Shame we had to have the finish we did but I guess it furthers the feud towards Beach Blast.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I LOVED that Steamboat return tag you watched. The goofy dragon costume he comes out in and then blam, crowd is turned up to 11 once it's revealed. 

Slightly off finish of Steamboat vs Rude or not, SuperBrawl is a terrific match between those two. What a program.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Steamboat returning to WCW twice in tag matches and both are awesome :trips5.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Does 95 ever pick up? Seriously considering skipping to 96.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> Does 95 ever pick up? Seriously considering skipping to 96.


I think '95 is considered to be one of the worst years in company history.  But there's still some stuff worth watching like Survivor Series and other random matches (Michaels/Jarrett from IYH 2, Michaels/Razor Ladder match at Summerslam, Bret/Bulldog from IYH 5) but yeah there's not much there.


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonzo said:


> The Enforcers (Arn Anderson/Larry Zybysko) vs Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (WCW Clash of the Champions 17)
> 
> Steamers return match :done
> 
> ...


It is a really good match.


----------



## 4Beer (Dec 3, 2017)

I want catch up on great WWE matches and feuds from 2011-2017. Where should I start? With Lesnar's return? I was a huge mark for his first WWE run. I also watched some CM Punk/Jericho promos from the youtube and that it was interesting. What else good has happened? Looking forward to your suggestions.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

4Beer said:


> I want catch up on great WWE matches and feuds from 2011-2017. Where should I start? With Lesnar's return? I was a huge mark for his first WWE run. I also watched some CM Punk/Jericho promos from the youtube and that it was interesting. What else good has happened? Looking forward to your suggestions.


Start with Punk's win over Cena at MITB 2011 and then roll with his reign(s) from there once he wins it back from Alberto. You've got the feud with Jericho which was awesome imo and then the matches with Bryan. 2012 has Lesnar's return vs. Cena which is one of the GOAT matches of the decade. Then Summerslam 2013 has two all time classics in Bryan/Cena and Lesnar/Punk. The Shield forms and runs roughshod for a couple years (classic match with the Wyatt Family at EC 2014). Wrestlemania XXX is absolutely must watch. Taker's streak matches at 27-29 are definitely necessary viewing too so you can gain an opinion on a heavily discussed set of matches.

I'll just stop there cause 2015-2017 are a whole nother thing.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

The Headhunters in the 96 Rumble? :lmao :lmao doubt they stuck around, remember them showing up in ECW around the same time. They make Abdullah the Butcher look like Frank Gotch in ring skill.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Don't forget Daniel Bryan and Sheamus matches from 2012 hell even the Sheamus and Big Show matches were good


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

zrc said:


> The Headhunters in the 96 Rumble? :lmao :lmao doubt they stuck around, remember them showing up in ECW around the same time. They make Abdullah the Butcher look like Frank Gotch in ring skill.


They were good in FMW


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WorldClass said:


> Don't forget Daniel Bryan and Sheamus matches from 2012 hell even the Sheamus and Big Show matches were good


Yeah good shout. Extreme Rules 2012 is one of my favorites PPVs of all time and Sheamus' World Title run that year was great for sure.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Roman/Jordan and Shield/Bar both worth watching from RAW this week. Both ***1/4-***1/2 range.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zrc said:


> The Headhunters in the 96 Rumble? :lmao :lmao doubt they stuck around, remember them showing up in ECW around the same time. They make Abdullah the Butcher look like Frank Gotch in ring skill.


I don't think they lasted a week in the company lol. They were literally VADER FODDER in the match .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> I don't think they lasted a week in the company lol. They were literally VADER FODDER in the match .


Was like literally a minute haha. Yoko and Vader sent them packing so quickly it made me laugh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching some of the Lawler/Snowman feud from USWA in 1990. Pretty infamous due to the race angle that's involved in it and I've always wanted to check it out.

There's a great write up of the whole deal with it here;

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/26299-the-story-of-jerry-lawler-and-the-snowman/

It's a great read and fills you in on pretty much everything.

I've so far watched Snowman's return to confront Lawler and a couple of other things and it's all very compelling. Just watched their first match at the colisuem;






One of the best worked shoot matches I've seen the and it's only 5 minutes too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Okay so Bryan/Orton from 12/16/2013 Raw is still one of the best matches in Raw history IMO. Yeah it hasn't got a clean finish but thst aside, it's an incredible piece of work.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Survivor Series 99. 

Thoroughly enjoyed every second of this event. Reminds me of why I used to love the event with the random teams. 

Godfather, D'Lo, Headbangers vs Dudley's & Acolytes. 

Fun little match, not the greatest opener but it continued the Dudley's/Acolytes mini feud going on. The headbangers were fodder, but that's nothing new towards the end of their stint. 

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Stasiak 
Decent enough debut for the Olympic hero, but Stasiak? Really? They could've used someone better. 


Henry, Venis, Gangrel, Blackman vs Bulldog, Mean Street Posse.

I'll always have a soft spot for the face team. A sex addict, a pornstar, a vampire and a badass mother fucker encapsulated everything the attitude midcard was. The Posse were never going to last in the match, and Gangers and Blackman were eliminated too easily. Bulldog was a shell of his former self and i was saddened to see it.

Debra, Moolah, Mae & Tori vs Ivory, Jacqueline, Luna & Terri. 

The heels should've destroyed the faces here. Ivory, Jackie & Luna really were the best workers they had but were resorted to fodder for non wrestlers. Complimentary Terri undressing. Not much to say here. 

Kane vs X-Pac
What would become feeling like 654942 matches between the 2, this one wasn't that memorable. Pac kicking Tori looked brutal, but a month later she'd be with DX anyways. 

Big Show vs Boss Man, Albert, Viscera, Mideon. 

Show destroyed his partners on Heat (the jobberific Meanie & Kai En Tai) deciding to go in alone. This made Show look hella strong for later on. I kinda wanted to see Blue Meanie, he was never much in the F but I loved the guy. I'd do the Meanie dance at school lol. I think he was off TV after this before his release in 2000. 

Chyna vs Jericho 
I forgot how physical the guys got with the 9th Wonder of the World. Her career hit a slump around this time to me, and she wasn't greatly over again until pairing with Eddie. Not an amazing match but not a bad one either. The top rope Pedigree was nicely done too. Oh and Miss Kitty practically with her growler out, here kitty kitty kitty!

The Holly's & Too Cool vs Edge, Christian & Hardy's. 

It was kinda interesting to see how over Too Cool got when they added Rikishi. They had zero reaction here despite being heels (?). Sexays laugh was annoying as fuck throughout. All the guys got ample time in this one but never understood why they were pushing Bob Holly in 99. 


Snow & Mankind vs New Age Outlaws
Great tag match here between 4 veterans. I was rooting for Head & Sock but they were never going over. 

Show Vs Hunter Vs Rock 
Typical Attitude Main Event. Run Ins, Brawling, The Announce Table. Was Fun Though For What It Was. Still Surprising Show Went Over Though, At A Time Dominated By Rock And Hunter. Of Course Shows Reign Didn't Last Long, Which Is Fine Because We Got More Hunter/Foley Classics.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The most positive review I've ever read for Survivor Series 1999. More power to ya, that show tests my patience as a wrestling fan. I don't think a single match had any heat.

On the flip side, I enjoy WWF 1995. So, there we go.


@Bonzo - watch Danielson vs Orton from February 2014 imo. It's competitive w/the December match on which is their best vs each other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That's the No DQ match isn't it? I'll watch it later as I know it's excellent too but don't remember much from it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. It's when Orton had to work vs all 5 of his opponents heading into the Elimination Chamber, this was the night he was paired vs Danielson. 2/3/14.

The Street Fight thing they had in 2013 wasn't my cup of tea. Only two matches that I liked between 'em were December & match mentioned ^. Apparently they had a No DQ Match on 3/17/14 that I absolutely don't recall.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah thx. I'll watch both of the Feb matches then as I'm not sure if I've seen the earlier Feb one tbh.

Watching Vader/Takada tho atm :done

Fuck it's epic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having watched the Bryan/Orton match from 02/03/2014 Raw, I still prefer their December match. Not to say this wasn't a good match because it was very good.

Bryan's targeting of Orton's leg because when Bryan targets a body part, he's one of the best at doing it. Orton's work on Bryan's arm especially was direct and vicious, and Bryan sold it great.

I know their 2 PPV matches seem to get kind of a bad esp but these Raw matches are compelling. Think I did like the HIAC match tho (Or Battleground - can't remember atm). One of them anyway.

Onto their No DQ match from later in the month now.....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If only I had that write up I gave the match after I watched it. Captured everything I loved about the match & Danielson in it. Of course, that would mean I'd need to find one of these threads from 2014 or the 2014 MOTYC thread, so that's not going to happen.

damn time flying by so quickly


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been years (duh) since I saw those matches, but the one from Feb sticks out to me more than the December one from what little I remember. Orton was on a roll with those EC opponent matches too from what I remember.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah their No DQ match is actually from 03/17  Not Feb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was, iirc too. Only the Cena match might have underwhelmed, but b/c that was so exhausted only being the reason. The Cesaro match when he went over Orton clean was the next best thing behind the Danielson match.

Lets not forget the brilliant Cena vs Cesaro match around this time too. God damn when weekly WWE was producing at least a few top level matches weekly during 2013-early 2014. Worth it for that alone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Been years (duh) since I saw those matches, but the one from Feb sticks out to me more than the December one from what little I remember. Orton was on a roll with those EC opponent matches too from what I remember.


Seems I liked the December match a little more too:

"So I've finally got around to watching Bryan/Orton from Raw. Nice leg work from Bryan, especially the cool running dropkick to Orton's knee while it was wrapped around the post (though Bryan could have put a bit more effort into it lol). Nice to see Orton doing some more BITING to escape, as well as biting his own hand to take the pain away from his leg while in a submission. BACK SUPLEX ON THE BARRICADE is a fav spot of mine, though has never looked as good as when Punk did it to Rey in that SD match during 2010 . Orton continuing to really sell the leg while trying to control the match was great, and I loved the counter from Bryan's kicks to that suplex. Oh Randy, why can't you work like this on a regular basis? I might actually think you didn't suck if you managed that. Shoulder work to Bryan was good too, with Bryan selling it well and Orton turning up the viciousness, which is another thing he only seems to fucking do when working Bryan. BE THIS MOTIVATED ALL THE TIME YOU STUPID FUCK. Shades of ARN ANDERSON with bending the fingers back while applying an arm lock. That's the great kind of shit missing from wrestling in general. WORKING A HOLD, not sat in it. Which kinda brings me to Bret Hart since people have been talking about him. I'm still a big fan of him, but as fas as his "technical" skills, he was as standard as it gets. He was known for working over limbs in the most standard way possible, while guys like Eddie, Arn, Benoit and others would really WORK the limbs and holds. Man now I have the urge to watch Flair/Reed where they spend HALF a 40 minute match working a HEADLOCK. Orton's favourite match probably. Shame he can't replicate it. Love how both men make sure to sell their injuries right up to the end of the match. None of that "shaking it off" crap. Bryan with the multiple running dropkicks in the corner, each time hurting his shoulder but he keeps going back for more regardless of the pain as it doesn't stop him running, then Orton countering with a huge dropkick that fucks his knee up again but he stopped Bryan and he gets a creepy smile on his face that actually made me smile lol. RUNNING KNEE TO THE FACE. BRYAN WINS CLEAN :mark:. Plenty to like about this match, and very little to dislike. Could have done without Kane showing up at the end, since his "interference" was pointless lol. Didn't like this one as much as their December match, but it's still far and away their second best match together. ***3/4."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The part about Flair/Reed & headlocks :ha


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Bryan/Orton No DQ match from 03/17/2014 Raw is another really good entry in their series. It definitely helped being No DQ as it allowed them to do different things at least to help separate it from their previous two Raw matches. I enjoyed Orton just as much as Bryan too in the series.

The December match is still tops for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So having watched the Rhodes/Windham vs Gordy/Williams tag match from WCW Saturday Night 10/03/1992 that I saw pimped elsewhere, i can attest it's an excellent match.

Crowd could have been better I guess and maybe the MVC could have helped more with that, but I loved the work in this. Rhodes/Windham esp are such a good tag team and work like a dream together with their offense. Lots of focused body work and they always kept things interesting and both sold well and made the inevitable hot tag highly anticipated.

Arn Anderson is good on commentary too.

They really get you fully behind them throughout and they're more than capable of taking it fully to the MVC. The match got 25 or so minutes too on free TV. God bless WCW in '92.

I just realised I actually uploaded the match some time ago lol



I think they had a match prior to this (could have been at the clash) but I don't know how it compares.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Just watched Rick Rude vs Masahiro Chono NJPW G1 Climax 92 finals match , A great match to watch it's a bit slow at the start but builds to great finish with Chono winning the G1 and the NWA World Heavyweight Title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After watching a mixed tag match on one of these '99 Nitros; makes me wish we could have got an extended Flair/Little Naitch tag run. They are always fucking gold together.


----------



## 4Beer (Dec 3, 2017)

I've been watching some random stuff from good old Ruthless Aggresion Era.

-First of the New Years Revolution 05 Elimination Chamber. Great chamber match I would say, building the hype for the Batista/HHH feud. It's a funny and also great moment when Tista and Hunter go face-to-face and J.R is starting to mark out. Benoit and Jericho looked to have very little story going into this match, but both gave a good performance and took some nasty bumps. Edge was in the chamber for like 4 minutes and didn't do anything memorable. Despite all the hate that Orton gets from this period, I though Randall played the symphatic babyface pretty well here and crowd was into it. Oh and yeah, kudos to crowd for marking out for pretty much everyone in the match-

Just under four snowflakes/stairs/whatever.

- Smackdown-episode after Summerslam 02. Last half of 02 SD! has some of the WWE's finest free TV wrestling. This one didn't disappoint. Edge vs. Eddie (with Eddie cheating to win of course), Mysterio vs. Rico (great show of skills surprisingly from the both men), Eddie vs.Rikishi, Lesnar vs. Matt Hardy (Hardy actually put up a good fight here). Hell even John Cena vs. D-Von was interesting with Batista interfering.

And then the main event, Angle vs. Benoit vs. the Undertaker. OMG Taker and Benoit in the same match :surprise:. Kurt and Chris are heels here, so they doubleteam Taker for good while, also using cool looking Crossface+Ankle lock combo. Taker eventually makes a good comeback and goes one-on-one with Benoit and Benoit gives the Taker some suplexies. This almost had me marking out...for about 15 seconds before Angle comes back to the ring and interrupts the dream match. And then the ending. Cool fastpaced match. No big story going on here, but nice MOVEZ from three of my favorites. Three chairs.

BTW, anyone know if the crowd reactions for Smackdown were being edited in 02? Brock and Eddie got a lot of heat here, I'm wondering whetever it's edited or they really were that over.

Anyways, I will continue to watch these 02 Smackdown's and report here when there's something noteworthy going on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then Chono shows up in America from some major stinkers vs Rude & Muta to end the year. :rusev

Thankfully Muta vs Chono in the Dome come '93 makes up for it. The running clothesline on the giant ramp spot :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Man the Blanchard/Garvin match from Worldwide on 5/3/86 fucking rules. I remember @WOOLCOCK pimping it a while ago now and I go finally watched it today.

Amazing back then how the crowd would go rabid for things like the sleeper hold. There's some quite wonderful hand psychology from Garvin throughout the match. With him struggling to put a pin on Blanchard because of his right hand for example.

Long match too at around half an hour with commercials of course. Whole match is a great struggled fight and it's Blanchard that impressed me the most, although as I've said, Garvin selling the hand was perfect. I'd say though also he probably had the majority of the offense here but Tully was great selling it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If SI re-spawned for that. :mj2

The reaction for the (Dusty) finish is _immense_. <3 those passionate NWA crowds.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:banderas

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this is now one of my favorite ever spots. Gotta go back and watch more of their matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

'kin hell, I LOVE that match. :mark:

'92 TV Championship match on COTC rules too.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

If your into Ronnie Garvin matches you should watch Greg Valentine vs Garvin at the 1990 Royal Rumble in a submission match, solid storytelling from both men


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WorldClass said:


> If your into Ronnie Garvin matches you should watch Greg Valentine vs Garvin at the 1990 Royal Rumble in a submission match, solid storytelling from both men


Been pimping that match for years myself .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Might sit and watch Armageddon 2000 later. All this time and I've never even watched it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WorldClass said:


> If your into Ronnie Garvin matches you should watch Greg Valentine vs Garvin at the 1990 Royal Rumble in a submission match, solid storytelling from both men


Yea I watched that earlier in the year when I watched the '90 royal rumble

I first have to admit; I was never a big fan of 'Rugged Ronnie Garvin' as a kid. Years later, people tell me he was a solid wrestler that i should watch more of, so here we go with one match. These two i know had a few matches in 89 leading up to this one.

So this is a submission match, yeah. So what is the first thing Garvin does after giving Valentine one hell of a stiff looking punch? Armbar? Figure-Four?

Nope. He tries to pin him. I guess it was their way of reminding the audience it was an I Quit Match. 

We get a few more pin attempts throughout the match too, which Jesse tries to cover up by claiming that "Because wrestlers are so used to pinning people, it just comes natural to them to do that" Think they should have stopped at the first pin attempt, rather than going for more in the match.

But despite that, i really enjoyed this TBH. It's two tough bastards who hate each other, beating the shit out of each other, with some super stiff shots, super stiff. Valentine always looks stoned lol and does play that dazed bloke well when he gets hit and does his own belly flop to the mat.

Really good match overall, that surprisingly got plenty of time too. Quite a novel WWF match, that seemed something right out of NWA or something. A war.










Oh, and this spot. Valentine had a brace on his leg, so the 'pain' of the hold wasn't in full effect to Rugged Ronnie.

I would like to check out at least one of their '89 matches at some point too.


----------



## 4Beer (Dec 3, 2017)

Watched some more random Ruthless Agression Era matches:

Eddie vs Rey SD! 23/6/2005

-So yeah, everyone knows this match. What can I say that hasn't been said? Great start when Eddie pretends to play it fair before taking a nother cheapshot. Eddies' attack on Reys' back here is all sorts of awesome. And Rey ofcourse being great as usually. Best feud of 05 and second best match of that year. Four and a half stairways to heaven.

JBL vs. John Cena Judgement Day 05 I Quit-match

-Weirdest thing here is that crowd is pretty much all Pro-Cena. :laugh:
Brutal brawl with lots of bleeding and tablespots. This is a sort of match you would have on Here Comes the Pain or SD! vs. Raw - videogames back in the day :laugh: . I thing JBL is the MVP here and that's not a knock against Cena. It's a bit slow at the times and I'm not sure how I feel about the ending. Anyways, probably best Cena match of 05. Three and a half snowies.

Batista vs. Undertaker Survivor Series 07 Hell in a Cell
- Pretty much a standard WWE brutal gimmick match from this era, but it has some nice spots, like Batista Bomb through the table. Don't think they quite captured the magic that they had in the WM match, but I still like this. Yeah and the ending is pretty funny with even JBL being upset.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> Might sit and watch Armageddon 2000 later. All this time and I've never even watched it.


The HIAC match is still one of my faves and one of the most enjoyable.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Bonzo said:


> The HIAC match is still one of my faves and one of the most enjoyable.


I've always FUCKING LOVED this match. I know it gets quite a bit of hate on here but I love it. 

All the talk about 1999 WCW in here has got me to download all Nitros from that year :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kenny said:


> All the talk about 1999 WCW in here has got me to download all Nitros from that year :cozy


Welcome to the madhouse.

I'm just a couple of weeks before GAB, atm. DDP/Savage/Bigelow have just joined forces


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah only recently completed my 2000 collection was missing the Armageddon set that has No Way Out 01 (another event I never saw). Back as a teen I'd miss a few shows here and there. Like 01 I saw them all but NWO, Unforgiven & Vengeance. Will enjoy seeing them over the Christmas period. 

Watching Wrestlemania 15 ATM. God Sable was shocking on the mic, same with Tori. Tbh the whole women's division couldn't talk for shit. Then there was the "match", botches galore and you could see Bass on the outside ducking :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah WM15.

Poor Bart Gunn :mj2 Gets legit knocked out then wakes up to find out a man in a chicken suit came straight out and 'knocked out' the ref just after Bart is being carted out.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Bonzo said:


> Ah WM15.
> 
> Poor Bart Gunn :mj2 Gets legit knocked out then wakes up to find out a man in a chicken suit came straight out and 'knocked out' the ref just after Bart is being carted out.


I wish Butterbean had knocked me out, so I didn't have to see this atrocity of a WM. Watched the battle Royal on YouTube before I put the show. Its shocking how they fucked over the Legion of Doom, did laugh at Public Enemy though. The F really didn't like them did they? :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Vader & Stan Hansen (AJPW Real World Tag League 12/05/98) *

Finally watched this today.



















:done

A classic tag match. Hansen/Vader are just so perfect together.

*Vader vs Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW October Giant Series 10/30/99)*

:done

12 or so minutes of pure bomb throwing. Vader taking Misawa to suplex city early on


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Garvin vs Valentine match sucks so much. The two dudes had no fucking clue what match stipulation they were working w/. :lmao


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Obfuscation said:


> That Garvin vs Valentine match sucks so much. The two dudes had no fucking clue what match stipulation they were working w/. :lmao


That is your opinion and you are entitled to it mr mod sir.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Valentine vs Tito Santana matches, though. :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Eddie/Rey 06/23 SD match today :banderas

Halloween Havoc is still my favourite from their series but fuck this match is legit great. Starts off with both of them trying to get the better of each other until Eddie goes into psycho mode when he pushes Rey off the turnbuckle onto the outside.

From then on Eddie just tortures poor Rey and Eddie is judt wonderful here. He punishes Rey every time he tries a comeback with some superb heel work. His mannerisms are great with his expressions and showing how he just wants to kill Mysterio. Rey is of course excellent as the babyface as he always is and Eddie just puts on a masterclass.

Wonderful performance and match.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Their Lumberjack match is the best Lumberjack I've seen talking about Tito Santana vs Valentine of course


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I put this together a while ago and thought i'd share it on here as a pre xmas gift for anyone that wants it.

Ric Flair vs Vader in 1993 (1 Disc)

1 ISO FILE

Can be opened in VLC player on a PC or burnt straight to a DVD.

Flair For the Gold: Vader & Harley Race (WCW Saturday Night 05/01/1993)
Ric Flair vs. Vader (WCW Clash Of The Champions 25) (11/10/1993)
Vader & Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (WCWSN 11/13/1993)
Battle Royal (Finish Only) (BattleBowl 11/20/1993)
WCW Starrcade 1993 Announcement (WCW Saturday Night 11/27/1993)
Vader Interview (WCW Saturday Night 12/11/1993)
Ric Flair Video (WCW Saturday Night 12/18/1993)
Ric Flair Interview (WCW Saturday Night 12/25/1993)
Vader vs Ric Flair (WCW Starrcade 1993 - Pre Show Buildup)
Opening Video (WCW Starrcade 1993)
Vader Arriving At The Arena/Vader Pre-Match Training Video (WCW Starrcade 1993)
Gene Okerlund + Ric Flair (Starrcade 1993) - All the buildup clips from the PPV, spliced together. Flair with his family etc.
Vader vs Ric Flair (WCW Starrcade 1993)
BONUS: Vader Talks About Ric Flair Starrcade 1993 Match (WCW 1993 Timeline)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-w...-flair-vs-vader-1993-1-disc.html#post71872521


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Jericho/Kane last man standing match and Armageddon hell in a cell were fun as fuck. Wasn't Keen on the rest of the show though.

I love this


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (EMLL 09/23/1983)*

:done :done :done :done :done

Think this is the second time I've watched this well talked about classic but it's been a while since I last saw it. What a fucking war.

MS-I is just the ultimate bastard heel. He attacks Chicana whilst the announcer in the ring is still talking and just sets out kicking the shit out of poor Chicana, who starts to gush blood pretty quickly.

Holy fuck at those punches  Chicana takes such a beating right from the off that a spectator actually wipes the blood off his head. MS-I on the other hand doesn't give a fuck and is just waiting for his next opportunity to attack. Chicana doesn't know where the fuck he is at this point or what's hit him. First fall is quickly over after a frog splash. Trouble is Chicana has to try and survive this onslaught for at least another fall, or two if he wants to win this thing and save his hair.

These punches are fucking brutal and MS-I just dishes them out and keeps stompingon his head.

What a bastard he fully comes across so well as too. Without a care about Chicana. Even the ref tries to hold him back at times but he keeps picking up Chicana and dumping him the ring, before continuing to kick and punch the shit out of him.

Chicana's selling btw is some GOAT level shit btw. Doesn't really need to be said considering the punishment he's taken, but.

Crowd are willing him on but he doesn't know what planet he's on and can't stand up to even try and stop MS-I.

Just realised Chicana's mum is in the audience :mj2 Fuck.

Then we get that moment when Chicana finally makes a comeback and it's great. He just starts slapping the shit out of MS-I and one punch knocks him clearout the ring.

Chicana is still trying to fully find his bearings as he's won the second fall as MS-I is now also full of red.

Third fall starts with Chicana throwing some stiff punches right back at MS-I. Both are back in the ring and both are just fucked at this point as they try and gain some sort of control.

Oh have I mentioned;

THE FUCKING BLOOD HERE

:hutz

The continuing struggle by both of them is amazing to watch. They're both exhausted from the blood and the sheer amount of punching they've both took. Just trying for a pin attempt takes it out of both of them.

But it's the final fall and someone is losing their hair here.

MS-I seems to find something now though as he starts to mount some serious offense again with more punches and a suplex, but still can't get the win. Both make suicide dives to the outside too here to try and finish each other off. I'm surprised they can see with all that blood on their faces.

Finally Chicana gets the win and it's MS-I and his hair next. Chicana still goes back and gets some more licks in as the barber is out.

What an amazing spectacle. It's violent, veeeeeeery bloody and is something to sit and witness. Epic brawling, punches, sheer desperation by both and a proper sense of holy fuck throughout and both put in incredible performances.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Just watched that match great old school match between the two Mexicans . anymore old school lucha matches


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WorldClass said:


> Just watched that match great old school match between the two Mexicans . anymore old school lucha matches


----------



## nyelator (Oct 3, 2016)

Corey said:


>


So good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i've downloaded nitros 1999 from jan - sept atm - tell me what to check out/what stands out cody/brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Try and just start from the beginning of Jan and watch the tail end of the Flair/Bischoff stuff and into the Flair/Hogan feud and the wonders :evil of all that. Despite the nonsensical booking most of the time, I'm sure you'll find some entertainment in it. Try and make it to Spring Stampede and see how you feel then.

There's still some good matches though with the undercard as always.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know we've had this match on a fancam video for years but seeing it in this quality; was this on a DVD then recently?


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Just found every episode of Heat, Metal, Raw & SD from 98-01 in my loft. So I'm happy xD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bonzo said:


> I know we've had this match on a fancam video for years but seeing it in this quality; was this on a DVD then recently?


Either DVD or on the Network. Or both.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Either DVD or on the Network. Or both.


Yea can't see it on any DVD I know of. Must have been on the network in a collection or something perhaps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only collection it would be under, would have to be Hidden Gems, but I don't recall seeing it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea, I wasn't aware of WWE showing it anywhere tbh. I've left a comment on the YT video to ask the uploader where it's from.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reverting back to modern day WWE talk, tonight's RAW could have some quality wrestling:

Reigns vs. Cesaro
Joe vs. Ambrose
Sheamus vs. Rollins
Strowman vs. Kane

Not bad. Just hope with still so much time left between now and the Rumble they don't stretch this Joe/Reigns and Strowman/Kane stuff allllll the way til then. Would much rather see them have their definitive matches on RAW and just possibly interact _during_ the Rumble.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Doink in '93

:banderas

Watched the Doink/Jannetty 2/3 falls match. Such an excellent match and one of the best of the year. Some great chain wrestling mixed with sound mat work and Jannetty's high flying. You really get a good mix of everything here with some very good selling, esp from Jannetty and solid limb work.

The Doink/Perfect match from 05/23 (KOTR qualifier) is also a very good match too from around this time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Other than the crummy dusty finish, I love Doink vs Jannetty. Anything w/Evil Doink earns its way into my heart.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are peeps' thoughts on the best Flair/Bret match? I might watch their iron man from '93 later. I do remember that being pimped along with one from '92 I think. May have been the one that made it onto the Smack 'Em Whack 'Em video.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Like HBK/Bret, I don't think I've ever seen a Flair/Bret match I've ever liked.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Hollywood Blondes/Bagwell & Scorpio match from Worldwide 05/08/1993 is still one of the best tag matches out there and an easy MOTY candidate.

Probably the Blondes best match too. They put on an excellent performance here and if there's one match to show anyone how great they could be, this would be the one. But Bagwell/Scorpio were great too here and it created one hell of a tag match.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Are the Attitude Era volume sets worth a watch?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reigns & Cesaro had a great IC Title match last night. Roman's selling was good when he wasn't actually using the arm but he still did that stupid ass rollup into a powerbomb using one arm (hate that move). Cesaro was absolutely awesome though. *** 1/2

No idea what's gonna happen with the non-finish of Kane/Strowman but jesus did Kane look old and slow last night. :lol



Bonzo said:


> What are peeps' thoughts on the best Flair/Bret match? I might watch their iron man from '93 later. I do remember that being pimped along with one from '92 I think. May have been the one that made it onto the Smack 'Em Whack 'Em video.


None of the matches I've seen between them were anything special that I remember. I don't think they had the best chemistry tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> Are the Attitude Era volume sets worth a watch?


Third volume is probably worth it for the novelty of seeing the unreleased matches. If you can stomach no commentary on them of course.



Corey said:


> Reigns & Cesaro had a great IC Title match last night. Roman's selling was good when he wasn't actually using the arm but he still did that stupid ass rollup into a powerbomb using one arm (hate that move). Cesaro was absolutely awesome though. *** 1/2
> 
> No idea what's gonna happen with the non-finish of Kane/Strowman but jesus did Kane look old and slow last night. :lol
> 
> ...


Kane is always slow tbh. He's only had one gear for a while now.

Him/Brock/Braun should be..........interesting.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't mind no commentary. Recently watched the Raw After the Show set which didn't have much/any commentary. At first I found it off putting, but quickly got used to it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Lawler/Perfect match from USWA on 08/09/1993.

Really good match here and it's almost complete too. Hennig is really aggressive and does his usual bumping. It's fun seeing them in this setting around this time.

Think I'll watch that Rock n Roll/Heavenly Bodies 'bungee jump' match from SMW....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watching RAW rn; Cesaro vs Reigns fuckin ruled.

Reigns' doing the roll up power bomb spot while selling w/a flat cover following, awesome. Cesaro's Superman Punch counter by lariating the hell out of Reigns' arm. :banderas

This is the benchmark Cesaro singles match of the year, too. Finally he got something memorable, and it wasn't even a tag.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Yeah1993 

inspired me to watch a couple of Martel Portland matches, finally.

Buddy Rose/Rick Martel (04/26/1980)

Been meaning to watch this for a while now and have just finished it. First thing of course you notice is Rose' mask. I liked his antics in the first fall and him targeting the leg of Martel. Crowd were quite wild too., esp as soon as Rick attempts to get the mask off of Rose before Buddy goes back to the leg.

Second fall, Rose starts out again by working the leg but Martel quickly gains control by ramming Buddy's head into the post and his offense starts fro there and he eventually gets the fall.

Third fall was Martel punishing Rose's back and trying to rip his mask off, but the count out finish felt a bit flat.

Very good match though overall and you can see here why Rick probably needs more viewing from people, including me. He's so good st selling and play the babyface. Funny considering his gimmick when he got to the WWF.

Roddy Piper & Rick Martel vs Luke Williams & Butch Miller (Portland 05/03/1980)

Another 2/3 Falls match here. It's great seeing Piper esp working holds in the first fall and then in the third fall, he has a very good FIP segment. His selling was good and helped setup the inevitable hot tag to Martel. He and Rick are an excellent well coordinated babyface team and I love the tag switching here too.

The finish is also great and creative and seems to setup a rematch between them soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got to love WWF; signs Martel and his most notable claim to fame is his memorable heel gimmick as The Model. And vice versa, signs the Sheepherders, turns them face w/a kooky entrance & licking people's faces. Territory days can blow some minds.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Sheepherders were always crap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock & Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies (SMW 08/18/93, Losers Must Bungee Jump)

Watched this earlier. The ring was in a country fair so you can hear all the fans close heckles from a single cam view. Match was ok with the classic heel/face tag team formula in effect. Stooging from the bodies and of course a Morton FIP segment too.

Of course it's the aftermath and the dreaded bunjee jump that's the main interest. Can only imagine what Prichard/Del Ray must have thought when this was first put to them.

Watching it certainly made me queasy as I've always had quite the fear of doing anything like that tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hulk Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter (Desert Storm Match) (MSG 06/03/1991)*

:done

Everyone should watch this. Should have been the match to blow off their feud tbh. Slaughter's bumping and selling are incredible.



















It's a MOTYC and it's a shame it was tucked away on a WWF VHS collection. Such a gem that's still probably forgotten by many a people.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^ I pimped that Desert Storm match way back when they started releasing the 'Old School' house shows on the network. Such a fun match that was way before it's time I feel like.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that Hogan/Slaughter match, watched it last year or whenever it was when I was on a Slaughter kick.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched a couple of the GAB '90 matches.

Midnights/Southern Boys is still one of the greatest tag matches out there.










:cornette calling someone a pig faced moron from the off

This is how you do a classic tag match. Some fantastic nearfalls in this and wern't the Southern Boys relatively new here? Eaton/Lane just rule but the Boys more than held their own too. Fast paced with some excellent double teaming and heel shit from the Midnights.

:done A wonderful example of top tier tag team formula.

Not sure if this is best MX of the year or their WrestleWar match with the Express.

Also watched Sting/Flair. Sting's first match back from an injury and his big title win of course. It's pretty much Flair/Sting by the numbers mostly but I still enjoyed it for what it was out there to accomplish; Sting getting his big win. Maybe he went to the no sell well one time too many but the match was designed to be for him so it was fine. Some fun spots in the match as you always get between these two.

It was a great moment to see Sting win here and the match has nice crowd heat throughout.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steve Austin vs Chris Adams (USWA Dallas Sportatorium 08/03/90, Come As You Are Match) 

I havn't really seen much of Austin in USWA, but the stip here peaked my interest. It's a superb brawl. Austin comes out dressed in American football gear and Adams is in a Karate outfit. Austin takes a couple of big bumps on the outside, including one where he ran head first into the post and his crash helmet came off










:austin4

Very enjoyable brawl though. Great use of the football helmet here. Austin used it as protection against the kendo stick and as a weapon used by Adams against Austin.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Midnight Express vs Rock & Roll Express (NWA Main Event 04/22/90)

:done

10 minutes of pure awesomeness with them doing what they do best. A fantastic TV match. Hot crowd as ever around this time too which always helps. Loved Eaton esp in this match and I get even more of an appreciation of him and Lane every time I see a MX match. Just a top tier tag match that's madly on a WCW C show. Only the finish being the main drawback really.

Oh and it features one of my favorite ever ref spots from Nick Patrick. 

HE DID A FUCKING LEAPFROG OVER EATON!!!!!

:banderas

I'll try and gif it cos it was fucking awesome.










:done


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Watching RAW rn; Cesaro vs Reigns fuckin ruled.
> 
> Reigns' doing the roll up power bomb spot while selling w/a flat cover following, awesome. Cesaro's Superman Punch counter by lariating the hell out of Reigns' arm. :banderas
> 
> This is the benchmark Cesaro singles match of the year, too. Finally he got something memorable, and it wasn't even a tag.


Just watched this and thought it was an excellent match. Some really great armwork by Cesaro and great selling again by Reigns. Definetly a top tier match in WWE for the year IMO. Just some great work by both.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Just watched the Rumble, No way out and Wrestlemania 2000 back to back. Most fun I've had watching wrestling in a while.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk (CWA 03/23/81, No DQ)






The punches in this match :done

Funk put on such a great performance here. Loved him at the start tripping over the ropes on his way out and back into the ring. Lawler is in all white attire here which looks cool. Doesn't take long until Funk is busted open and Lawler does too before long.

Grear heat for this throughout and I love Funk's selling and just how entertaining he is. Loved it when Funk gets Jerry in the corner, who is bloodied up and can hardly stand and Funk is just nailing him with slap after slap to the face.

Then Lawler pulls his straps down and starts wailing on Funk with some of his trademark heavy punches, which is awesome to watch. Funk selling some of the chair shots from Lawler was great too and the crowd were just wild throughout.

Just a great, wild brawl. Onto their empty arena match now....

Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk (CWA 04/06/81, Empty Arena Match)

Once again; Terry fucking Funk :done

"MY EYE" "I CAN'T SEE" "DOCTOR, DOCTOR" 

"LAWLER YOU YELLOW PIG"

Funk screaming in pain, completely bloodied up, selling the fact that's he's just had a stick shoved in his eye is a sight to see. Have to say though, Lance Russel is great throughout the match. Both jawing with Funk at the start and in the match calling it.

Another wild match that's a whole visual threat. These two matches alone why people hold Funk in such high regard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midnight Express; the greatest tag team of all time :cozy

GAB '90 vs Southern Boys, AND Desert Storm w/Hogan vs Slaughter talked about on the same page. Wonderful.

I have to check that Austin vs Adams match out. One thing from USWA I haven't seen, actually.



Bonzo said:


> Just watched this and thought it was an excellent match. Some really great armwork by Cesaro and great selling again by Reigns. Definetly a top tier match in WWE for the year IMO. Just some great work by both.


(Y)

Shame this Reigns weekly IC championship scenario is working out as well as it is, when it won't be something they'll let be a constant for him come 2018. He's a good workhorse, & his booking is often at its sturdiest when he's doing work week by week. While it's best to get Reigns vs Brock II finally out of the way so WWE has to move on, it's still something I have to state when they get something fun going, just to "fill time" for a different plan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll upload Austin/Adams if it isn't online. Although it miiiiiiight be on the Network....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll have to give that a look, asap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Savage/Garvin cage match from ICW earlier. Savage puts one of his best babyface performances here. Just great selling and a constant struggle to try and get back at Garvin. Another match where there are some really great punches thrown by both and the crowd are fully behind Savage.

It's a great brawl and of course they both use the cage and end up juicing. The match is also built on them trying to hit each other with a piledriver and they both struggle for control as they try and hit it.

Savage is great as ever at his trademark selling throughout too here. He finally hits the piledriver off the top rope and it's an awesome finish to a gritty cage match. Garvin playing a great heel; punching, choking and trying to decimate Savage, who in turn sells like crazy and gives one his best babyface performances as only he could.

Definetly recommended.

-------------

Just watched the Duggan/DiBiase cage match

:banderas

First of all the crowd is molten for this and for everything Duggan does. We did get a nice recap video beforehand to catch us up with the feud and how it got to this point and the fact that they're both in tuxedos.

It's always amazing when you think about people like me who grew up with the WWF version of Jim Duggan and then you go back and watch him in Mid South. He's just the ultimate babyface that can go and kick the shit out of someone.

This match has pretty much everything you'd want from this sort of feud for a blow off. Blood, violence, drama, insane crowd heat and a proper finish. DiBiase is also the perfect heel here too. Cowardly, but at the same time, takes it to Duggan with great punches. He's also great at his selling and taking the big come back from Duggan.

Just an great spectacle and match.

The Duggan/Sawyer match is still my favourite from Duggan but this match is wonderful too. Now I need to go and watch the other Sawyer/Duggan match; the dog collar one.

--------------


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Yeah1993


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942117198159601665
I think you mentioned this match as may be your favourite from Nitro

The match was called on the fly as Regal had just arrived 15 mins before heading to the ring due to travel issues.

Regal/Psicosis.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Regal having amazing tastes of his own stuff, and being proud of his work. Top notch. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's truly awesome to know. Plus, there's an Adrian Street name drop, too. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I just caught up on the last page and among all the great matches talked about, I don't remember the 4/22/90 MX/RNR at all. I'm gonna see if it's online, I've been back into a wrestling mood lately and I'm working on putting together a year-by-year matchlist of stuff I think really rocks. :cozy 

I'm gonna add the Slaughter/Hogan desert storm match to the 1991 list in a hurry because I forgot it exists and it deserves to be on there.


edit - WWE uploaded RNR/MX on their youtube channel and put the wrong date up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bIDgotzoAM


An episode of Main Event didn't even happen on 4/28 :cal


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I just caught up on the last page and among all the great matches talked about, I don't remember the 4/22/90 MX/RNR at all. I'm gonna see if it's online, I've been back into a wrestling mood lately and I'm working on putting together a year-by-year matchlist of stuff I think really rocks. :cozy
> 
> I'm gonna add the Slaughter/Hogan desert storm match to the 1991 list in a hurry because I forgot it exists and it deserves to be on there.


WWE have the date as the week after but it's the same match


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Clash of Champions 2017

Bobby Roode vs. Baron Corbin vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2
Fatal 4 Way Tag Team Championship - ***1/2
Charlotte vs. Natalya - *3/4
Bludgeon Brothers vs. Fandango/Breeze - *
Nakamura/Orton vs. Owens/Zayn - **3/4
AJ Styles vs. Jinder Mahal - **3/4

Great opener and strange but great in parts tag match. Thank god we go into 2018 with AJ as champ. Average and forgettable PPV but didn't expect anything different from this time of the year!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

High Flyers vs Rick Martel & Tito Santana (AWA 08/29/82)

This cuts into the match already in progress but it's still a great tag match. Both teams are babyfaces so it's an interesting dynamic for the match here. Santana/Gagne start out with a great, prolonged headlock sequence on the mat where they quickly exchange holds with each other with the headlock and headscissors.

Martel again is great here with his selling and it's a very compelling, fast paced match that even though it's heavily focused on the headlocks for the first portion, it's all about the struggle and about them trying to one up each other to prove their the best. There's some great leg work here too and I love the Gagne Indian deathlock he puts on Tito. Lots of quick tags in the second portion of the match where things quicken up and we see great work from both teams, with Gagne working over the knee and both Rick and Tito selling well.

Just a great tag team match that keeps you hooked throughout. It's also great where dropkicks were such a big deal and got the crowd extra hot. Just can't beat those old school crowds.

@Yeah1993

Checking out the listings for the '91 Yearbook might be an idea to get some match reminders. You'll also have to post your list in here to tryyyyyyyy and get this thread started again :cozy


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh man don't get me started on the yearbooks. I gotta go through the listings for 92, 93 and 96 to try to piece together which matches should be added (those specifically because I finished watching those years back). I'm probably gonna have to rewatch a bunch for accuracy. The list won't be done for a long long time. Well technically it won't ever be done but I mean I won't have finished adding everything I want to it for a long long time. It's so much looking through listings and forum posts to try to remember.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stan Lane & Jim Cornette vs Jerry Lawler & Mark Curtis (WWA Rumble II: Wrestlers vs Hunger 08/17/91)

:done

Man this was a ton of fun. Cornette was probably the star of the match here lol, he and Curtis were great in this setting. Lots of comedy spots as you'd expect but there is some wrestling and Cornette does an admirable job in his offense. Curtis busts out a damn plancha in this one too 

Plus, Lane/Cornette were the babyfaces here. Back and forth stalling to start with and Lawler is funny jawing with the crowd, it soon goes into a very fun overall match. Saw it listed and just had to check it out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've had Bret's Dungeon Collection DVD for a while now but have only just got around to watching the Hart Foundation/Islanders match from 03/14/1987 from the Spectrum.

Really enjoyed it. Anvil constantly stooging throughout and Bret of course getting the main wrestling focus. Havnt really gone back and watched much of the islanders but I liked them here. Got the crowd invested and had nice shine spots in the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Styles vs Jinder was good. Highlight of the PPV. I know it was a forgettable show that begs why I'm mentioning it, but hey, a good match. :monkey

Feeling like we're getting the reliable Styles back. Yay.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs Owen Hart & Bob Backlund (WWF Action Zone 02/26/95)

Man this was even better than I remembered it being. Legit one of the best tags in WWF IMO. Everyone looks great here and the match has fantastic heat. Bret has a FIP segment and the continuing teases of the hot tags and all the cut offs keeps the match exciting and fast paced. Owen bumping all over the place and playing his heel role perfectly and the crowd lapped it all up.

Not quite as great the the kliq action zone tag but I'd say it's not too far off.

Watch it.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

I just came across this little gem Sabu vs Eddie Guerrero ( Black Tiger II) 1995/06/12 it's short and a bit sloppy at points but damn it is good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flair/Savage at WM8 still holds up for me. I still get ever so slightly annoyed at all the suits trying to keep Liz back and then trying to keep Savage down as Flair is hammering him, but other than that I really enjoyed it.

It's got great heat throughout and the crowd are an important factor in how vocal they are too. Some nice nearfalls and Flair being busted open ramps up the tension and Savage does his great selling once again. It does venture into 'WWE sports entertainment' in the final minutes but overall I enjoyed it.

The pre and certainly post match promos are also gold from both but esp Flair.

I'm now interested in seeing how their WCW '95 matches compare now. Esp the GAB match.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Struggling to get through 2001 after Judgement Day. The Alliance stuff fucked it all up, finding it pretty boring. Plus I've now lost count how many variations of EC/Hardy's/Dudley's I've seen, snooze fest cause you seen one you've seen them all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like JD 01 a bunch. Lita/Chyna was a good women's match, which was a rarity back then lol. Hardcore title match was another fun hardcore title match that was the standard for the time. Tag Team Turmoil I honestly thought was great, easily the best "turmoil" match I can think of. Kane/HHH is good, and Taker/Austin is really good too.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I've always considered Judgement Day the last true Attitude ppv.

You're right about the womens, hardcore & turmoil matches too. As a Kane mark I will always love the chain match. Undertaker/Austin never fully clicked to me though, which is odd considering how many times they fought.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin/Taker have a VERY hit and miss chemistry. But I find JD 01 to likely be their best match. With a certain BL 02 match being second, but I think I'm the only person on the planet to still like it :lmao.

KOTR is the next PPV, right? That's a hard show to get through outside of the Angle/Shane match. I agree to an extent that the Invasion stuff brings shit down, but overall I loved the entire Invasion angle. When it happened I was only like 12 years old and didn't KNOW that much about the Monday Night Wars or the original NWO etc etc so I was happy with what we got .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Austin/Taker have a VERY hit and miss chemistry. But I find JD 01 to likely be their best match. With a certain BL 02 match being second, but I think I'm the only person on the planet to still like it :lmao.
> 
> KOTR is the next PPV, right? That's a hard show to get through outside of the Angle/Shane match. I agree to an extent that the Invasion stuff brings shit down, but overall I loved the entire Invasion angle. When it happened I was only like 12 years old and didn't KNOW that much about the Monday Night Wars or the original NWO etc etc so I was happy with what we got .


Yeah, KOTR did nothing for me. Don't particularly like the Angle/Shane match either. But then I wasn't then nor am I now a fan of both. So seeing Angle in 3 matches (didnt mind in 2000 because the matches were shorter and had more padding the show out) and Shane showing up throughout was never gonna appeal to me.The other matches and segments just made the whole thing a chore. 

Don't get me started on DDP. Everyone knows he's banging that sex bomb Kimberly but he's stalking Sara? :lmao


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Unforgiven 2001 (first time I ever saw it).

Dudleyz v SpikeShow v HurriStorm v Hardyz. 

Creative had nothing for Show, he went from rumble return, hardcorw fodder to tag teaming with Gunn, Spike, Tajiri, insert random mid card act going nowhere here. Match ending up with Dudley's & Hardy's... Yawn!

Raven v Perry Saturn.

Nothing match, and pales in comparison to their work in WCW. 

Edge v Christian 

Again, seen it before skipped to the end. 

BOD v Kronik 

I loved Kronik in wcw but this match was just awful. I can see why they were gone a week later. Neither were gonna improve going to developmental, and they knew it. 

RVD v Jericho 

Different to the usual hardcore messes I was accustomed to. Solid match, and that backstage bit with Steph is still hysterical. 

Booker & Shane v The Rock 
Pass.

Rhyno v Tajiri 
OK I guess.

Angle v Austin 

Nice moment in his hometown I guess, but Angle ended up in the Alliance anyway. 


Found the show pretty trash tbh.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Austin/Angle series in 2001 is so good, always loved it. Even the triple threat with RVD is worth the watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I must have watched it at the time but havnt watched it since, but I'll have to watch that well celebrated BOD/Kronik match for the lols.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Owen/Austin from Summerslam.

:mj2

You know what?

:austinwhat?

It's even more of a shame the botch happened like it did because this match is excellent IMO up until that point. It's high-energy and a very enjoyable match with great offense from Owen in particular. He works on Austin's hand and we get a middle-finger-based psychology here with great viciousness by Owen, while then switching focus to Austin's neck. Plus he does his usual athletic spots too. Love a german suplex he does.

Owen really is wonderful in this match and again, it's a shame all he in this match and this match in general will only be remembered for the one horrific spot. Crowd is hot and the match builds and builds and it would be remembered as a great match if it had a proper finishing stretch and finish.

It's still an excellent match though. But the Piledriver spot and aftermath is never easy to watch and obviously overshadows the work they put in before that point. Still a minor miracle Austin was able to improvise a finish though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really dig Austin vs Owen, too. The botch sucks for many reasons, but considering Austin would recover, the fact it stopped the match short is the most unfortunate. Talking about SummerSlam '97 has given me the urge to return to Mankind vs Helmsley Steel Cage. I love that match.

Unforgiven 2001 is a fun show. Everything around that time was such a blast & easy to watch. Even the worst match on it is worth watching numerous times. Taker shouting FUCK after a botched chinbreaker will never stop being hilarious.

Austin vs Taker from Judgment Day 2001 has always been my pick for their best match. It's terrific. :mark: I remember A Cold Day in Hell the least. The one match from both those guys I can't ever latch onto from their infamous '97. Huh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More MX greatness;

:done

Midnight Express vs Bill Watts & Stagger Lee (Mid South 4/22/84)

Condrey and esp Eaton are wonderful here at their bumping and stooging best. Swagger/Watts take it in turns at the start to just lay punch after punch on both MX members and they both sell them all so well. Eaton bumps onto the top turnbuckle, only to be punchef off the top turnbuckle straight away. Blood soon follows from the Express to add to the violence the match is bringing.

The crowd is heat is INSANE here too right from the get go. Cornette of course gets involved too with a triple team on Swagger/Watts and Watts is great at the FIP angling for the hot tag, which the already HOT crowd erupts to. One of the hottest crowds I've heard for the whole match but esp for the finish.

The pre-match stipulation was if the MX loses that Cornette has to wear a diaper :lmao Yeah it's certainly a sight to see.

Super match. Fuck, Mid South has so many gems.

The match as well as the build up to it is on YT luckily for you peeps


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I like posting in here. Enjoy reading different views on stuff.

No Mercy 01 tonight, then Survivor Series & Vengeance tomorrow.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon (WWF Action Zone 10/30/94)

I still find it amazing that this was somewhat hidden away on an Action Zone episode. All four of them bring it big time here. Even Nash, who works hard and for a some nice bumps, including a very nice flying shouldercharge. Yeah he lays out for forever from the superkick, but it did help out that move over big time tbh.

I've always loved Hall's punches too, he always made them look pretty great IMO and he has a FIP segment here too rather than Kid. HBK/Kid have an awesome, fast paced segment too and Kid does his usual high offense and super bumping all all over the place.

A classic southern type tag match and one if the best WWF tag matches you're going to find. It's very highly praised of course but it's one of those matches that more than lives up to the names involved. They all bring it here and it's further helped by a hot crowd.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid (WWF Monday Night RAW 07/11/94)

Yeah a very celebrated match and very rightly so. Bret is tremendous in these face/face settings and making them work so well. Always love his facial expression when Kid takes him down straight away with an arm drag. The false finish also works great in putting over Bret's sportsmanship and in keeping the story of the match going.

Kid is great in this too, both on his offense and in his supreme bumping. Talking of offense; Bret gave Kid some pretty stiff looking European uppercuts in the corners  Looked brutal from the camera angles.

All the offense looks great here though. Kid's kicks look as good as they ever did and Bret was vicious with all his strikes and holds. The bulldog was pretty brutal too.

A fantastic match and one of the best TV matches in WWF. A wonderful champion vs underdog classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Action Zone actually mattering when it first started. The usual WWF/WWE trend. :monkey

Bret vs Kid is the best RAW match ever. (along w/Taker vs Hardy Ladder match.)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> I like posting in here. Enjoy reading different views on stuff.
> 
> No Mercy 01 tonight, then Survivor Series & Vengeance tomorrow.


No Mercy has imo one of the most underrated matches ever in Jericho/Rock (love the shit out of it) so that's something to look forward to. Remember thinking the ladder between Edge & Christian was super boring though (ironically enough).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^100% spot on w/me, too. Never cared for the Ladder match. Would Jericho vs Rock truly be underrated though? Feels like the next best Rock matches that got praised outside of his Austin or Foley programs were vs Jericho. Or maybe that's how I saw it. But they always were great together.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> ^100% spot on w/me, too. Never cared for the Ladder match. Would Jericho vs Rock truly be underrated though? Feels like the next best Rock matches that got praised outside of his Austin or Foley programs were vs Jericho. Or maybe that's how I saw it. But they always were great together.


I feel like people talk about the Rumble match before the No Mercy one. Last time I watched it I honestly think I gave it like **** 3/4. That's how much I loved it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perhaps due to the bigger PPV & Jericho's first show after winning the Undisputed Champion is the reason for that. But all the same, they're both great matches in my eyes. I'm for the praise either way. :cozy

Rock, in general, was killer in 2002. PPV alone was vs Jericho, vs Taker, vs Hogan, vs Taker & Angle, & vs Brock. That's an absolutely brilliant list of top matches in a row.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Ended up falling asleep early, so No Mercy will be today. I did see this one at the time, but not since.

I think I only saw the Rumble, Mania, King of the Ring & Survivor Series back in 2002. I was very selective with what I picked up until 2005 when I'd watch them all. Plus the local Woolworths didn't always have them in stock. In the end the lovely Jackie used to keep a copy round back for me to pick up on a Monday.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Test is the (other) real treat when it comes to No Mercy 2001. Main event has one of the best JR lines post match, quite like Hardys vs Hurricane/Storm, too. Again, just most stuff I really got a kick out of. Have to admit, Taker vs Booker does underwhelm. Most of Taker's highlights for 2001 were outside of the Invasion PPVs. Go figure. The heel turn was a great decision.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I much prefer under to midcards anyways. The main events were pretty much the same guys for years. 

I'm really bored as fuck of Hardy's/Dudley's though. I liked both teams but come on... I still think they should've just had the 4 way tag tlc at King of the Ring instead of TV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock did have a p.great 2002. Love the Jericho match at RR, the tremendous Vengeance triple threat, the obvious Hogan match and the great Brock match.

Plus Rock was in great condition that year too physically. 

I need to go back and watch the Taker match at NWO as I always hear mixed views on that one. Rock had a v.fun TV match with Eddie too that I wish was longer and/or on PPV.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

zrc said:


> I like posting in here. Enjoy reading different views on stuff.
> 
> No Mercy 01 tonight, then Survivor Series & Vengeance tomorrow.


Did you like Austin vs Angle vs RVD from No Mercy 2001?

Jericho/Rock and Edge/Christian rules too.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Kenny said:


> Did you like Austin vs Angle vs RVD from No Mercy 2001?
> 
> Jericho/Rock and Edge/Christian rules too.


Will be watching it later today cause I fell asleep. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Took a break from the classics to watch some wrestle-trash;

CM Punk vs Homicide (FIP 11/13/2004)

Yeah, the infamous FCA match that ends up in a strip club. Some images for you



















Colourful language used by Punk here too that's become pretty infamous too and it's certainly a spectacle of a match lol. Starts in the ring but quickly goes outside yo the parking lot and on top of a truck. Before they find themselves in the strip club.

Match ends with Homicide piledriving Punk on the concrete outside.

Yeah it's not exactly a classic but it's just something I'd heard about but never seen.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Oh Bonzo! Merry Christmas dude!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Merry Christmas to you too and all the DVD peeps


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"You are a WHORE!"_ - CM Punk, having a good time in Florida.

*paraphrasing, if memory is slightly off*


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

No Mercy 01

The good 
Kane vs Test, Test always had this uncanny talent for good to great matches that flew under the radar his whole career. 

The bad 
Stacy vs Torrie, awful. 

The ugly 
Undertaker vs Booker T, Taker couldn't make it more obvious he gave zero fucks to the Invasion guys. 

Edge & Christian again, yawn.
Hardy's beat StormCane. Which should be obvious after the latter was eliminated first the month prior. 

Tajiri replaced Spike as Show's partner here, and still lost to the Dudley's. Those damn Dudley's. No table manners!

Rock & Jericho had an awesome match here. 

The main was better than I remembered. I put that down to RVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My NM 01 ratings from my review:

The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Storm & The Hurricane - 1/2*
Test Vs Kane - ***
Torrie Wilson Vs Stacy Keibler - * (for how hot they both were)
Christian Vs Edge - 1/4*
The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Tajiri - **
The Undertaker Vs Booker T - ***
The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - ****
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle Vs RVD - **3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For how hot they are. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well they sure didn't get * for their wrestling ability . Would have been a straight up DUD if they were uggos .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

They were 01s Kat & Terri. Over as fuck but they were no Frank Gotch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Figured I'd watch something from 01 PPV. Taker/RVD from Vengeance it is! Only match on the entire show worth seeing too .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Never seen Vengeance. That, No Way Out & unforgiven were the ones I missed back then. Will get around to Vengeance eventually.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry (WWE Smackdown 11/29/11, Cage Match)

:done

What a cage match. Henry comes into this with an 'injured' ankle but still manages to use his awesome power to full effect. Bryan is of course great at his selling and at making his comebacks. Some great use if the cage here too and if the timing of the escape attempts. Henry wallops Bryan with some heaaaaaavy clothelines in this and I love the slam off the ropes finish.

Henry is also p.great at selling the ankle too and he's just wonderful as the wounded big bear who can still throw you around and just not give a fuck doing it. Great crowd heat throughout too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steve Austin vs Mankind (WWF Monday Night RAW 11/18/96)

Night after Survivor Series and both just want to destroy each other. One thing is definetly noticed throughout this year and esp in the HBK match too was how good physical shape Foley was in.

This starts out a big ass brawl before the bell even rings. It continues to be a fight throughout and it's fucking great. Their overall chemistry certainly showed here and of course Foley took his usual bumps in this too. Finish is rather bleh with the executioner ( :jones) interfering but it's still a very strong match. Esp as it was on TV.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

King of the Ring 2000

The good 

King Kurt 
The main event 
Hardy's & E/C NOT being the final 2 in the tag match. 


The bad 
All of Rikishis matches (why would Benoit and Venis help Angle?)

The ugly 
Geraldine brisco and Aunt Patty Patterson. They should've gone the whole hog and had Chyna win the hardcore belt!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hardy Boyz vs Serial Thrillaz (OMEGA 01/29/99)

Think this was on the WWE Hardy DVD that came out a few years ago but I've never seen it until now.

First thing that hits you is how hot the whole crowd is for this. Super heat throughout and the match very much surprised me in that its an excellent southern style tag match that's both high on impact moves and some sound pschychology intergrated into it too. Hardys are the heels here and they perform thst role very well here with all sorts of bumping and stooging about. Hardys have a nice heat segment too with Helms playing FIP.

It really is a very good tag match that's probably underrated or simply just forgotten.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steven Regal vs Fit Finlay (WCW Uncensored 03/24/96)

:done

STIFF

AS

FUCK

:regal

Crowd doesn't know how to really react either I don't think because it's sub 20 minutes of them beating the living shit out of each other. Even Tony prefaces this by saying "He's here to knock Regal out". How correct he was.

First few minutes is Finlay literally kicking the crap out of Regal and gives him one hell of a clothesline. They soon mix the out right physical violence with some mat based holds and they're just as brutal. Regal starts squeezing the shit out of Finlay's head. Neither hold back on anything and are both prepared to not give a fuck and just want to hurt each other. Various holds, knees, punches and down right nasty shit follows to further both men's pain.

Just one hell of a physical spectacle here. Tack on a proper finish and would be even higher, but Finlay hit Regal that fucking hard in the face, Regal's nose started to gush blood so they had to pretty much call an audible and send the blue bloods out as I'm sure this was supposed to go another 10 minutes or so.

Fabulous stuff (STIFF ~!!) here.

Oh and Dusty is on commentary too and at one point says "Where is Ireland?. Five miles from London?" :cozy


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Finlay & Regal always had great matches. Remember seeing them in Brighton when I was real young, and loved them both.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Owen Hart vs Davey Boy Smith (WWF Monday Night RAW 03/03/97)

Been a while since I last watched this but it's always been one of my favourite Raw matches of all time. This still holds up big time for me. Yeah it's pretty much a showcase, with both of them going through some really super exchanges and sequences that looked great, esp in the environment of the WWF at the time.

It's also a heel vs heel match to boot too, although Bulldog is pretty much the overall face here for the purpose of the match.

Some great near falls in the finishing stretch too and it's just a fabulous match to sit and enjoy. They both do some great stuff together here, with cartwheels, enziguiri, belly to belly and a German suplex by Owen that he always does so well. Superplex, flips, an electric chair; just a run through of lots of flashy shit mixed with great wrestling and storytelling 

Still a top tier match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF Monday Night Raw 04/22/1997 Street Fight)

Holy fuck I remember this whole angle being great but fuck is it ever. It starts out with Bret/Owen/Davey attacking Austin until HBK runs in and nails everyone with chair shots. Then it's down to Austin & Bret.

Bret is just wonderful here in his attacks. He gives Austin one hell of a piledriver and then tries to attack Austin with a chair, but Austin moves out the way and starts wailing heavily at Bret's leg with the chair.

We get a great spot here with Bret flipping the bird to Austin just as he's being turned around for a sharpshooter :done

Austin is relentless with the chair before applying the sharpshooter and then refusing to let go of it. Eventually he does when Owen/Davey come back to help Bret. We then get the infamous ambulance segment where Bret does a stretcher job but Austin is hiding in the ambulance.

Fucking amazing TV and one if the best angles/segments in WWF history. Both Bret and Austin are incredible here in all of this and it's all so perfectly setup and executed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hulk Hogan vs Diamond Dallas Page (WCW Monday Nitro 10/27/1997)

I remember going through the Nitro's from '97 a couple of years ago now and when I got to this Nitro and watched this I was like "Where the fuck did this come from"?

It's such a gem.....and it features Hollywood Hulk fucking Hogan. He actually starts off by wrestling DDP to the mat with an armbar and he does his usual heel shtick. He also does a very neat avoidance of a Diamond Cutter here too and he does take most of the match in terms of offense but Page sells very well and it's the match has a story. Hogan definetly brings his working boots here and of course DDP looks great for his part.

DDP is fantastic here in his classic never say die, underdog role. Taking everything Hogan gives with great selling and timing his comebacks perfectly. Hogan hits a big boot out of nowhere but misses the legdrop in a great spot. Of course it has a smoz finish with fake sting and the NWO and then real Sting saving the day and it was a great moment that I didn't mind as much as other shitty WCW finishes around this time.

An excellent match overall and probably another underappreciated gem. One of the best Nitro matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evolution vs Rock 'N' Sock Connection (Wrestlemania 20)

I know Foley isn't exactly pleased with his own contribution here but I really enjoyed the match. Don't think I've seen it since waaay back when either. It was cool seeing Rock/Flair interact and you could tell they were loving it oit there. Overall it's just a very fun match IMO. Nothing too deep or serious, just all of them going out there and entertaining the crowd with their personalities and turning it into a good tag match.

Has a very nice pace to it too. Batista plays his role well as the enforcer type throughout the match and it was also cool seeing him and Rock in there together.

Orton/Foley stuff was good too with them brawling and Foley of course taking bumps and I guess the overall goal was to put over Orton. It was a match that did pretty much everything it needed to to achieve what it set out too and everyone had their chance to shine.

All four of them made this a very fun match.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

They should've had Orton/Foley at Mania.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

We got the stupendous Backlash match afterwards in addition to this fun tag, so it worked out. Orton got the pin at WM and went onto have a career defining performance a month later.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

If they cut those crap 4 way tag matches, we could've had that stupendous match at a show that mattered. Maybe my judgement is a bit clouded, because I found Mania 20 as a whole a mess. 

They could've cut half the matches and I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker vs Finlay (WWE Smackdown 03/09/07)

I've always loved this match. Taker for the first part of 2007 was quite incredible. He was in great shape and seemed to have a purpose to go out there and put on the best performances of his career and possibly prove something to any doubters and tgis seemingly throwaway SD match is proof of this IMO.

He's awesome here as he's moving so fast and delivering his devastating offense with some conviction. He hits his bombs with much aplomb, including a biiiiiiig boot on the outside. But I'm a sucker for a big boot.

Finlay plays the tough but plucky guy trying to do anything he could to get the advantage over Taker by any means necessary.

And of course thst also meant using Hornswaggle when he needed to. A good nearfalls at the end too before a classic Taker sit up and tombstone.

A more than stellar TV match. Definetly a favourite.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hacksaw Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer (Mid-South) (12/27/85) (Dog Collar Match)

I've only seen Sawyer in the other Duggan match and bits from early 90's WCW, but in just those I love him lol. He's just very entertaining to watch. Same with Duggan in this setting; He's always a great babyface that's more than capable of kicking the crap out of his opponent.

So, Duggan/Buzz had a match in Mid South on 11/11/85 that is one of the greatest brawls in wrestling history IMO and is a match I've now watched countless times. It was featured on the WWE Mid South set I think, so I fully encourage everyone who hasn't seen It, go watch it. It's a stunning piece of work and a real eye opener for those who grew up with Hacksaw only from his WWF days.

So here's the rematch that I havnt seen up until now. A dog collar match rather appropriately, as these two just can't be controlled. Now they have no choice.

As these types of matches go, it's as gritty, volient and visceral as ever. Quick struggle with the chain by both until Duggan starts punching the shit out of Sawyer until he gets his bearings and it's back to equal. They both take a beating as you'd expect and both are a bloody mess by the end of it. Duggan with a crimson mask, dushinv out heavy violence is certainly a sight to see. Both wrap the chain around their hands and use it to inflict punishment on each other's heads. At one point Buzz is caught in the ropes and Duggan just pulls on the chain and is basically strangling Sawyer who can't do much about it as he's being yanked back and forth.

I love his 'Hulk up' moment in this when he's all bloodied up and belts out a loud shout and starts nailing Buzz with the chain.

They hold nothing back yet again and it's a fitting match for them to sort out their differences shall we say. Their November brawl is still the apex, but this was still great and the rawness of it all that only these 80's matches can provide is always a great sight.

Love this shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jim Duggan is seriously so excellent, that I don't think many realize it.

One of "those" comments, but statement comparison via popularity masking quality, Duggan vs a guy like Shawn Michaels, and Duggan wins every time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (04/19/1987) * Date might be 06/01



I've seen this match before and loved it and I still do. Two big beefy bastards punching and beating the shit out of each other. They start out by literally seeing who's the bigger man by running into one another with shoulderblocks, with nobody budging. Yea lots of good 'ol testosterone flying around here. They club each other over again and it's not long at all until Bubba gets busted open.

Some excellent punches thrown by both in this one too










Bubba took a big fall to the outside and once he made his comeback, they just punched each other with some visceral big blows. Both men take great bumps here too and it's something to watch wrestlers of this size just bumping around and out the ring.

Gang also gets busted open and is bleeding profusely as Bubba starts clawing his face and seemingly trying to rip him apart.

Bubba nearly decapitates himself at one point on the ropes










:jones

There's a great spot where Gang is caught in the ropes and Bubba clubs him with knees and Gang is just forced to sit in the ropes, bleeding heavily and taking everything that's being dealt to him.

It's just a very enjoyable big man slugfest. Crowd were hot too as they mostly seem to be in these arenas and were fired up when Bubba was on offense. A bit of clipping in the match with an ad break, but it's ok and the match doesn't really suffer. Definetly another favorite from the place that keeps on giving; Mid South.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Randy Savage vs Bret Hart (Saturday Night's Main Event 10/28/1987)

You know, I'm not sure if I've ever gotten around to watching this match. I know it's rated very high though. Story going in is that the Hart Foundation and Honky Tonk Man attacked Liz the week before so Savage is obviously out for some revenge on Bret here.

I just love how perfectly the heel/babyface formula works here. Savage we know is one if the greats as a babyface, but he's pretty damn amazing in this match. His selling of the leg that Bret works over is fantastic and he just times his spots and comebacks perfectly.

One could easily call this the Savage show, but Bret plays his role just as well as the heel.

Savage takes it right to Bret from the off as he's on a full on revenge mission. There's a quick reversal and Bret starts to take over and immediately enters heel mode by choking Savage, but Savage again take a over and sends Bret into the guardrail.

As much as I love Randy when he's in peril and selling like crazy, I do love it when he goes into full crazy mode on offense and he's hot thst look in his eye. He misses a flying ax handle though and this gives Bret his opportunity.

This is where Bret starts to shine and so does Savage. Bret hits him with one of his classic piledrivers, which I always though Bret did great btw. Things quickly change again as Bret slams into the ring post. It's become a back and forth match now with quick moves and transitions, but there are mini segments in here for them both to take over again. This happens when Savage takes a bump over the top rope and damages his leg. Which of course Bret takes full advantage of after an ad break.

Randy is fucking wonderful at his selling here as he's struggling to get back in the ring and even stand up. He still gestures to Bret to bring it, which Bret does and goes straight for the ankle.

Bret is great at targeting the ankle of Savage and systematically working it over, which Savage continues to sell perfectly whilst he makes a comeback. I didn't quite expect the finish with the small package when it came but it was a smart finish. Savage is still hobbling on one leg after the match too as he goes after the Foundation.

What a guy 

Great match. Excellent performances by both and it's always a pleasure seeing Savage go into his GOAT babyface selling mode and Bret is the perfect foe here.

If only the timing would have been better for a later Bret/Savage feud but it wasn't to be. But we have this TV classic to at least fall back on. One of the best on SNME and on any WWF TV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Toronto 2/15/1987)

Another match where I'm not sure if I've ever watched it. They've had a few other noted matches apart from WM3 and I always hear this one talked up the most.

Both of them are really aggressive from the off but esp Steamboat. Great speed in everything he does and he flips over and under Savage, before punching his face in and sending him to the outside and back into the ring. Great selling by Randy again here already, who quickly turns it around and starts to attack Ricky on the outside.

They've already set a great pace with their intensity here as Savage slowly times his attacks on Steamboat as Ricky is still trying to recover in the outside. Steamboat with some excellent selling here and Savage targets the throat of Steamer, of course we know the history with that. Flying double ax handle keeps Steamer down before a couple of quick 2 count pins.

Savage continues to dominate methodically but Steamer mounts a comeback and gets a close nearfall.

Love Steamer throughout this match as he gradually takes the onslaught by Savage before getting his revenge by targeting the throat of Savage and eventually busting him open. Steamer's selling is tremendous in this match as I've mentioned and so are his timed spots, esp when he starts his comeback with such aggression going after the one body part thst almost finished him.

Both Steamboat and Savage need to be commended for both their selling here and the overall performances in getting the story of the match over. Again, I just live how Steamer goes HAM on Savage with strong intensity that you're fully behind him in every punch.

We get a few nearfalls in the finishing stretch before Savage geys the win with the tights covered in blood like the classic heel he is.

Steamboat is obviously pissed at this and gets a few licks in as Savage tries to bail.

A tremendous match. I'm going to watch the WM3 match next for the first time in years to see how they compare.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Well I have a choice tonight. 
Canadian Stampede, Badd Blood 97 or Vengeance 01. I've never watch any of them (seen the HIAC of Badd Blood though).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)

First time I've seen this in years and decided to watch it after watching their excellent February match from Toronto.

A line from Savage's pre match promo caught my immediate attention "History beckons the Macho Man".

I forgot about George Steele being out for this one. He kidnapped Liz on a SNME so I'd expect Savage to have one eye on him here. The match moves at a fast pace right from the start. Steamer does his classic trademark armdrags and grabs Savage by the throat, but Savage soon gets the upper hand and goes for a quick pin attempt. I love Steamboat working on the arm and Savage selling it only he can.

Savage would go onto to have his own heat segment as he soon starts to target the throat of Steamer and dumps him out the ring. Savage is great as the heel, getting in sly kicks and jabs and some quick pinfall attempts.

Crowd gets behind Steamboat as he makes a comeback as Savage gets caught in the ropes. A high crossbody gets him a 2 count. Tgis portion of the match moves at a high pace until Steamboat went to the well too often and Savage catches him with a high knee.

He flies at Steamboat on the outside, who takes a bump over the guardrail. This is also the first time we see Steele get involved in trying to help out Steamer. Savage though remains in control as he varies his attacks on Steamboat and tries for numerous quick pinfalls, but can't get steamboat down for three.

Savage does a very nice gutwrench suplex for another 2 count. One thing is like to also point out is Ventura on commentary, who I though was his smarmy heel best here. Taking every opportunity to shit on Steamboat and the ref for various reasons.

Savage takes a big bump over the top rope as Steamboat attempts a comeback. Steamboat flies off the turnbuckle and nails Savage with an axehandle and has to jump over ref, who just won't fucking move.

Have to say, that's a big pet peeve of mine; It's not illegal to get into the top rope so fucking move ref and shut the fuck up.

Great nearfall here as Steamboat pins Savage and it looks to be a three, but Savage has his foot on the ropes. Steamer is now in control and he starts chopping the fuck out of Savage and dumps him outside the ring. Then comes a great numerous pinfall sequence where Steamboat tries various ways of trying to get a pin.

There's a great spot here where Savage is thrown into the turnbuckle, turns around dazed and throws a missed punch at the ref, obviously thinking he was Steamboat. Fantastic bit by Savage.

A proper ref bump follows so anything goes now. Savage hits his flying elbow but the ref is still down. Savage is pissed and gets the ring bell but is stopped by Steele, who eats the shot instead. But Steele gets revenge and pushes savage off the ropes and Steamboat rolls him up for the win.

New intercontinental champion.

I'd definetly call this a classic still. I know some people have an issue with the George Steele stuff, but his involvement fitted in with an overarching story involving Savage but I'd admit that I wished it would have been a clean finish here, but it didn't take too much from the match.

Both men were great here with both their selling and the depths they went to, to get the win. Trying everything they could to keep the other down and I loved the sequences with the pinfall attempts and what both tried to vary up how to finidh the other.

I maybe like the 02/17/87 match slightly more if I'm honest though. Just a bit more aggressiveness in it overall, but there's moments in the WM match thst I love so it's probably hard to choose as on another day, I'd probably pick WM3. Both just great matches.

No doubt WM3 is still an upper echelon match not just at WM, but in WWE history.



zrc said:


> Well I have a choice tonight.
> Canadian Stampede, Badd Blood 97 or Vengeance 01. I've never watch any of them (seen the HIAC of Badd Blood though).


Canadian Stampede.

Vengeance does have Taker/RVD, Angle/Austin and Jericho's big moment(s).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hulk Hogan & High Flyers vs Jesse Ventura, Ken Patera, & Bobby Heenan (AWA 3/13/1983)

:done the names

Just seeing Hogan/Ventura/Heenan sharing a wrestling ring was enough for me check this match out. Plus Mene Gene out there announcing. It's a weird WWF nostalgia trip in a land before time.

Love how Ventura looks here. He's got that look and demeanour of someone who doesn't give a fuck. He's already got that 'Predator' type look here. Well until Hogan rips off his bandana and exposed his bald head lol.

The crowd are fucking jacked for Hogan and he and the Flyers go straight after Heenan and co. Hogan/Ventura start locking up and Hulk goes HAM on the arm of Jesse who tags in Heenan.

Hogan vs Heenan :hutz

Bobby is great here. He bumps all over the place for Hogan and the Flyers before he tags out as the crowd starts up a loud Weasel chant. He's soon back in and just as he starts some offense, he takes a wicked bug bump on the turnbuckle. His selling and bumping are fucking great here I have to say. It's so fun seeing this type of match involving Heenan/Hogan and co.

Hogan ends up cleaning house after a hot tag after Brunzell has an extended FIP segment and it's a great spot. He rips everyone apart and drops the leg drop on Heenan.

Super fun match. Seeing Heenan bump like this in a proper match is great and the heels do a great job getting heat and the crowd are hot when the faces finally get in there to shine. Patera uses his power here too when he's in there and it's just a really fun tag match.

It's great seeing both Hogan and Heenan in this type of environment and Jesse too and they all blend together very well to create some entertaining dynamics and spots. Love the heel segment and it makes Hogan finally getting in there all the better when eventually cleans house. Just seeing he and Heenan work together like this was worth it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> Well I have a choice tonight.
> Canadian Stampede, Badd Blood 97 or Vengeance 01. I've never watch any of them (seen the HIAC of Badd Blood though).


Definitely go with Canadian Stampede. Whole show is great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Bubba vs One Man Gang

kada kada 

80's peaking.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steiner Brothers vs Midnight Express (NWA World Championship Wrestling 10/13/90)

Decided to fit in one more match today and had the urge for some MX goodness. Plus I've never seen it and a Steiners/MX match certainly interests me.

Yeah this fucking ruled. Bobby Eaton was the clear star here as he was bumping like a madman and making the Steiners look as good as possible. He was born to take offense like he did in this match. Not to say Rick/Scott wern't good here either as they were and I thought they meshed great with the MX.

Rick has a p.good FIP segment here too thst does work and esp when he gets the hot tag to Scott. I just love some of the selling here by the MX and esp from Eaton. Corny inevitably gets involved too for a nearfall spot. Everything was crisp here too and fast paced and it made everyone involved look great.

Seeing the Steiners throw the MX around was great and fun to watch and Eaton/Lane lapped it all up with their bumping. As I said, Eaton was fucking awesome in this match. Worth watching it just for him alone.

Another high end MX match and another one from this year alone for them.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock N Roll Express vs Arn/Ole Anderson (NWA Starrcade 1986) (Steel Cage Match)

Finally checked this one out. Fuck the crowd is super hot for the express and everything they do here. This is a perfect example of a hated heel team going up against a much loved babyface team and thst dynamic works so well here, esp with the cage being a factor.

Ole just destroys Gibson's leg early on and then Arn takes over and Gibson is selling well here before he tries a comeback but is cut off quickly. I do love the intensity of Ole esp here as he's just tearing Gisbon apart. The Anderson's are just great here keeping Gibson down and tagging in each other in and out to prolong the heat segment.

Morton is going crazy trying to get Gibson over for the hot tag, but Ole/Arn are having none of it. Gibson gets an enziguri out if nowhere and makes the tag and the crowd go fucking ape. But Ole quickly gets on top and is now destroying poor Ricky, who's bloodied up now. Ole gets working on the arm of Morton with intense precision and is just torturing Ricky and throwing him everywhere until Arn tags in and takes over.

Both Arn/Ole are great here in the double teamand in keeping Morton on the mat so he can't go anywhere. They just continue to destroy him until Ricky starts to mount a comeback but again Arn tags Ole in.

It's certainly an extended heat segment by the Anderson's but it's utterly compelling for me in how they dissect Morton and just continue to break him down. It's certainly a visual when a bloodied up Morton tries to desperately fight back as you're right there willing him on.

There's an utterly fantastic bit where Morton, whose face is now full on red with his own blood, starts coming back and punching the shit out of Arn, who sells them so well by staggering and trying to shadow box back. I found it interesting after such a long heat segment there was no hot tag to Gibson but it's not too important.

Finish comes when Gibson comes in and dropkicks Morton on top of Ole for the win. A really great, super heated tag match here. The cage was a bonus but a big bonus. Both Anderson's were fantastic here in their teamwork and how they both tried to decimate the express, who were excellent in their selling and timing the little comebacks they did get. Great match. It was a joy to watch the Anderson's work lime this and the Express were the perfrct opponents with their formula and how they got the crowd to explode at every turn they came back.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

CM Punk vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 09/10/2010)

A match I've been meaning to watch in a long while now as I've never seen it but had recs for it. I even upped it myself on DM a while ago lol.

Punk starts out by attacking the leg of Taker, who is having none of it and just lands a great single punch to knock Punk down. Taker starts working on the arm and goes for old school, but crotches himself on the ropes :jones

Back from a break and Punk is in control now and gets Taker in a choke hold and starts hitting elbows on Taker's head. On the outside and he rams Taker into the barricade and continues his heat segment but Taker fights back with his patented punches. Momentum has shifted again now and Taker hits his big leg drop on the apron, but Taker is still selling the effects of the offense Punk has given him here.

He misses a flying knee in the corner and Punk takes full advantage by going to the mat and applies another choke hold. Taker does some great facials here both when he's selling and when he starts his comeback. Both men are down now until Taker goes for an elbow and misses. He gets hit by a running knee and a great bulldog by Punk for a nearfall. They exchange punches and that's something you just don't do with the deadman.

Taker hits snake eyes, which I always love, but gets caught by a flying knee as he goes for a legdrop. Taker though ends up hitting a chokeslam and gets a pretty great nearfall. He signals for a tombstone but Punk reverses the attempt and hits a GTS. Just as Punk gets close to a pin, Taker applies Hells Gate and it's over.

It's certainly a v.good match. Doesn't hold a candle to their truly excellent WM match though of course, but I never expected it to. There were some good transitions here and it was a nice back and forth match with both getting shine parts.

Punk got in a lot of offense to stay on top of Undertaker the whole time. There were some nice counters to the classic Undertaker spots like snake eyes. The finish was fine too with Undertaker hitting the chokeslam, but being unable to cover right away as he so often does when he hits it and the GTS into the Hells Gate I thought was well done.

Taker was great at his selling too and showing overall vulnerability throughout in his dazed state and obviously he was following the pattern of the storyline. So Yea, good match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hulk Hogan & Genichiro Tenryu vs Legion of Doom (SWS Wrestlefest 03/30/91)

Another match that I've been meaning to watch as it's a rare occasion to see Hogan and LOD match up.

Obvious big fight feel to this and it's certainly a spectacle. Loved seeing Animal and Tenryu square off and then Animal and Hogan and those two start trading blows until Animal press slams Hogan, which again is a sight and Hawk comes in and press slams Tenryu until it goes into mini chaos mode and Hulk/Tenryu clean house.

Hogan and Hawk have a great brawl on the outside here where they just trade big blows and hit each other with what ever they can find out there. Animal kicks Tenryu right in the face for good measure too a d it's now a wild brawl until Animal/Tenryu get back in the ring.

Hogan comes into this with a plaster on his face from WM7 and is busted open now as this match seems to settle down, with Tenryu having a FIP segment and there's a great spot where he and Hawk no sell chopping each other.

Hawk is also bleeding from the face now it seems as he and Hulk are now in the ring and the LOD take it in turns to work Hogan over. Eventually it's back to a wild brawl on the outside as Hogan/Hawk resume their out of control brawling and are judt whacking each other with chairs and shit before again it gets back in the ring to resume normal service.

Yeah the match ends in a double count out, which is kind of a cop out after what the match gave us, but I guess Vince wanted nobody directly jobbing here, so.

This was a ton of fun though. It's a big spectacle of a match, nice crowd and they worked hard out there, particularly Hogan and Hawk who, who both juiced and beat the shit out of each other. Lots of big power moves, match moves at a great pace. It was like a big clash of the titans match with lots of wild brawling and both teams hitting each other with powerhouse shit and anything they could lay their hands on.

Very fun match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hulk Hogan vs Vader (WCW SuperBrawl V 02/19/95)

I don't think I've ever gone back and watched any of the Vader/Hogan stuff properly tbh. Yeah Vader is a big favourite of mine but just never got around to it.

I know that the whole Hogan no sell of the powerbomb happened at COTC prior to this but it was wise of WCW to edit that bit out leading up to this match.

Hogan said 'brother' at least 18 times or more in his pre match promo. Not even close to the record I'm sure.

It obviously has the feel of a big, epic spectacle as it should and it does great when Vader and Hogan are face to face jawing at each other.

A lock up to start and neither bugde. Hogan starts punching Vader in the head, but Vader completely no sells them and just casually takes off his mask. Hogan gets back on offense and slaps the shit out of Vader in the corner and clothelines him but to zero effect again, as this doesn't hurt Vader at all.

So Hogan tries actually wrestling Vader. He puts him down with a short arm scissors and starts working on the arm, but Vader quickly rolls out of it. Nothing is working for Hulk here.

Vader shouts "NO PAIN" :Vader

So Vader gets Hogan in the corner and starts peppering him with some classic stiff add shots to the head and a big splash. Yeah Hulk is in trouble as he bails to the outside, but Vader follows suit. Hogan manages to turn it around though and sends Vader over the guardrail and into where Ric Flair is sitting.

Vader is now pissed as fuck.

Hogan back on offense in the ring as he gets Vader in the corner again with some punches and clothelines him down. Big boot to Vader that just about staggers him, so Hogan clothelines him over the top rope. Vader giving Hogan a lot here as Hulk continues on offense. Vader mounts a comeback as he reverses a body slam and now he's in control as he gives Hulk a Vader bomb.

Vader with more big clubs to Hogans head now as he stiffs him with heavy punches. Vader slams him down and hits a Vader bomb from the middle rope but only gets a 2 count. He tries it again, but misses with a moonsault.

Still love seeing Vader do this though.

This gives Hogan the chance to grab a chair and he nails Vader with it. This draws a few boos from the crowd lol. Back in the ring and Vader gets a big chokeslam on Hogan before again clubbing him in the corner. Biiiiiig suplex by Vader gets a 2 count.

HULK UP ~~!! URGH.

You know how this shit goes.

Big boot to Vader and the leg drop. But Vader kucks out at 1!!!

Ref bump and Vader hits a powerbomb but obviously the ref is down and here comes Flair to attack Hogan. Big splash by Vader as the ref is back up but that only gets a 2 count. Flair is back in the ring and this causes a DQ.

Urgh.

A mixed bag of a match for me if I'm honest. It started out pretty good with the story of can Hogan knock Vader down. Then Hogan took more control of the match and it was more back and forth. Some nice action and Vader was great with his offense with some stiff shots, but even the leg drop kick out at 1 didn't feel as big as it should have because of the final finish of the match.

Slightly confusing too at times as Hogan was playing the guy who thought he couldn't knock Vader down "He's too strong" but he was also kicking some was at times out there. But there were certainly moments in the match thst I enjoyed and Hogan did vary up his shit until the obvious hulk up moment and Vader was great at his no selling at hitting power moves and clubbing Hogan.

I liked the beginning of the match with Hogan trying to wrestle Vader and then using dirty tactics out of because Vader was such an unstoppable monster, that Hogan had to resort to using the chair. Vader was great as the no fuck's given monster with the no-selling at the beginning, the killer offense and kicking out of the leg drop at one. So yeah, a big match and spectacle for sure and there are lots to elements to like but also a few not to.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I really liked that match when I watched it last (I do remember some obnoxious flaws though) but it was about six years ago now. Their strap match at the next month's show is utter dick IMO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stan Hansen & Dan Kroffat vs. Rock N Roll Express (AJPW, 10/26/1988)

After seeing Hansen and Morton on opposite teams, I couldn't pass up the chance to check this one out and I really enjoyed it. Kroffat/Morton start it out and soon after, Hansen gets in the ring and goes straight for Morton like he's insulted his mom or something and is just desperate to get his hands on him. As Kroffat/Morton have a nice segment in the ring, Hansen is just tireless on the apron, desperate to get in there.

As Morton is down, he does and just flies over and punts him in the head. It's a highlight of the match just waiting for Hansen to properly get his hands on Morton throughout.

He goes for him on the outside but misses a clothesline and goes straight into the post. Finally they are both legal in the ring and Stan is just murdering him with throws, elbows and general nastiness and it's great to watch.

Crowd could be hotter though, esp for the Express, but they pop at the various big spots, like Kroffat flying legs first through the ropes and onto the outside.....and Hansen still can't leave poor Ricky alone lol and still goes out to give him a few licks.

Morton ends up with an extended FIP segment with Kroffat and Hansen taking it in turns to decimate him. Morton eventually eats the inevitable LARIOTOOOOOO from Hansen.

As I said, I enjoyed it. Fun match with Morton as a FIP for most of it and the joy of watching Hansen first try and get his paws on Morton and then succeeding.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Terry Funk vs Jerry Lawler (USWA World Title Tournament 10/08/90)*

:done

You want to watch a great squash match? Watch this shit.

Terry Funk brutalizes and murders Lawler here, who hardly gets anything in return and it's glorious to watch. It starts out with Funk kicking the crap out of Lawler as soon as the bell sounds. Funk is hilarious here as he's commentating as he's throwing Jerry around.

"Into the television table" "And now he's picking up the stairs....into the stairs goes Jerry the king Lawler courtesy of Terry Funk"

"PIG! PIG! PIG! DAMN YOU, PIG!"

Funk throws some ficking wonderful punches in this. I mean, really brutal, I thought he'd broke Jerry's nose with one as the thud of the punch was LOUD. He's just beating the shit out of him with punches and Lawler can't do a thing about it.

Those punches are a thing of beauty :banderas

Funk continues to narrate his attacks on Lawler throughout this and is just going fucking crazy. He ends up piledriving referrees too lol before hitting Jerry with one. Lawler is taking the beating of his life here but you can't help but still be on Funk's side as he's just far too good. Match ends up in a DQ but fuck was it a fabulous squash to watch.

Seriously, watch this shit. Dunno if it's online but If not and if anyone wants it putting on YT, lemme know. This is a Terry Funk performance and is now an all time favourite.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck it, had the time so i upped the match:

*Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler (USWA Title Tournament 10/8/90)*






WATCH THIS SHIT

:done

Double post worthy too :cozy


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched the 1989 Royal Rumble match last night. Plan on watching all of them (wish me luck) in the next 4 weeks leading up to this year's version.

Anyway, been several years since I've seen this one and man the first 40 minutes or so are so much fun. Andre does great for the time he was in there. Menacingly choking someone in the corner or having multiple guys clubbing him over the back. Michaels & Mr. Perfect take some great bumps and fly around the ring. All the tag teams wars were fun too (especially Arn & Tully). Unfortunately the match totally peaks with Hogan's elimination after the altercation with Savage and the Twin Towers dominating. After that the match is SO fucking flat and there's hardly any fan favorites left to cheer on. Studd winning was fine because he was dominant but there wasn't any drama at all in the last 10 minutes. He just threw people around. Tough one to rate.

Opening 6 man tag is totally MOTN.



Bonzo said:


> Double post worthy too :cozy


You've been triple and quadruple posting for weeks. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corey said:


> You've been triple and quadruple posting for weeks. :lol


1. You've noticed roud

2. Aaaaaaand they've all been worth it :cozy

3. I'm a motherfucking super mod who's bending rules dammit.....

4. I'm keeping this dead ass thread alive

5. :meh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That 6 man tag from the 1989 RR event is fecking awesome. Good to see it getting some love. Did you watch the 1988 RR already?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't remember that tag at all so think I'll dig it out now. Although it does involve Dino Bravo.....:jones


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> That 6 man tag from the 1989 RR event is fecking awesome. Good to see it getting some love. Did you watch the 1988 RR already?


Yeah it was definitely a ton of fun. Crazy how over Duggan was. Crowd was going NUTS.

Watched the '88 event the other night. Was hardly paying attention during the actual Rumble match because the rest of the show kinda bored me. Rude/Steamboat was solid but sucked that it went so long to end in a DQ just as it was getting hot.

Going back to '89 though, I thought that super posedown between Rude and Warrior was entertaining as hell. :lol "For my next pose, LITTLE MAN!"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the 6 man and fuck it was fun. Can't believe I watched a match with Dino fucking Bravo in it and actually enjoyed It, but it did also feature Bret and the Rougous so there was still a chance I'd like it and I did.

Crowd was wild as @Corey said too. Some great action in this, esp as soon as Bret gets tagged in and I loved his stuff with both Rougous.

It also reminded me how enjoyable the Hart Foundation were as a team and the role Anvil played in it all with him coming in and just cleaning house and being the quick power man. After watching Duggan in Mid South greatness, it's always a comedown when you then watch him in a WWF setting mostly, but in a match like this, he's a ton of fun and just does the quick basics and it works. He gets in here on a hot tag after a heel heat segment and it's great. Crowd loses their shit too.

Bravo will always suck, no matter where he is. Luckily he's pretty inoffensive here.

Very fun match. :up Thanks for the rec as this one is a hidden gem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ultimate Warrior vs Rick Rude (WWF Wrestlemania 5)

No idea when the last time I watched this but had the WM5 DVD to hand so thought I'd revisit it. Seeing Rude/Heenan again here brings a smile to my face. God bless them both. Rude with the interconintebal title design on his tights are so great.

Loved the start of this with Rude going for Warrior but kneeing the championship belt after Warrior comes into this at 600mph. Already Rude starts bumping like a madman here. 1 minute into this and he's already making Warrior look like a million dollars.

Found it a tad odd how Warrior already goes for a bearhug but it's not for long and soon enough Rude is bumlomg big off a back drop. Rude gets a comeback hope by landing a knee on a Warrior splash attempt.

Rude hits a piledriver :mj2 how I miss thee

Rude is great here selling his back he can't do his hip swivel. Rude gets a 2 count and gets in full control. Warrior soon powers out of a stretch and does his 'Hulk up' and Rude eats a clothesline and gets shoved hard into the turnbuckle with another great bump.

Even Warrior does a fine bump into the corner here too. Rude Awakening attempt is blocked and Rude gets dumped over the top rope.

We then get the classic heel finish as Warrior suplexes Rude back in the ring, but Rude lands on top of Warrior as Heenan holds his feet so Rude can get the win.

Yeah, loved this. Warrior was great with his power moves which Rude sold as well as anyone. It was Warrior with all the energy in the world and Rude bumping all over the ring. He made Warrior look so good here and set the pace of the match well considering Warrior's cardio. Rude really was fantastic here and it's a super fun match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steve Austin vs Chris Adams (USWA Dallas Sportatorium 08/03/1990, Come As You Are Match)*






@Hayley Seydoux

:cozy

*Stan Hansen & Dan Kroffat vs. Rock N Roll Express (All Japan 10/26/1988)*






@Donnie


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I know what I'll be watching within the day. :cozy


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I finally got to watching Canadian Stampede it was pretty good. I do think the team in the main event should've been the one they had on Raw afterwards. Sid, Patriot and HBK with Shamrock and Austin is much better than having LOD and Goldust in it. I k ow this match is considered an all time classic, but I didn't see it myself. I'm accustomed to ignoring fans these days so the crowd cheering Hart and booing Austin added nothing to the match for me. 

Always got time for Vader and Taker. Rest of the small card was of no interest to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I enjoyed Sasuke/Taka from Stampede too. I think HHH/Foley was ok on last watch too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Terry Funk vs Brickhouse Brown (USWA World Title Tournament 10/08/90)

This was before the Lawler match that I mentioned yesterday (THAT EVERYONE SHOULD GO FUCKING WATCH NOW :armfold)

That was a very special Terry Funk performance and in similar ways, so is this.

"Terry Funk claims to be middle aged and crazy" Yeah and God bless him.

Funk is crazy straight from the bell here and starts charging Brickhouse into the ropes and then SPITS RIGHT IN HIS FACE

:hutz

This starts off both of them just throwing wild punches at each other until the ref breaks them up. Funk then SPITS IN BROWN'S FACE AGAIN

:hutz

But misses this time so Brown returns the favor and spits in Funk's face, who has a great reaction to this and bails to the outside and flings himself over the barricade and into the crowd. Brown follows him and Funk calmly leads him back into the ring lol.

They lock up back in the ring and Funk starts laying in some of his infamous punches and dumps him over the guardrail and into a table.

Funk just doesn't give a fuck. I just fucking love watching punch people.

He tries for a piledriver but gets backdropped and both of thrm start brawling again on the outside. Brown throws a couple of good punches here too and just a flying crossbody and then hits another. He's in control now as he goes to the top rope and just s flying headbutt.

Funk does this absolutely hilarious sell around the ring as he does a crawl all around it before collapsing again :lol

Brown fails to go for a cover though and instead goes back into the top rope. He flies off and tries rolling Funk up but it's reversed and Funk steals a win.

This was a ton of fun(k). Loved the spit revenge spot and Funk overselling of Brown's offense in such comical ways. Great brawling in the crowd and the way Funk stole a win in the end. His selling was such a joy to see as always, esp when Brown spat back in his face.

Just another excellent Funk performance and he did give Brown a lot here to make it more competitive.

Funk being obnoxious when winning was funny too as he ran around Brown with his arms in the air to really rub it in.

Funk continues to be :done

@Yeah1993 If you want this upping too, lemme know.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> I enjoyed Sasuke/Taka from Stampede too. I think HHH/Foley was ok on last watch too.


Nothing was bad. All were at least OK, I just get a little burnt out watching certain wrestlers fighting each other. This happened most with Foley/Hunter & Rock/Hunter. Its my own fault for having an attitude marathon I guess.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> @Yeah1993 If you want this upping too, lemme know.


I won't specifically ask, but if you put it up I'll sure as hell watch it. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I won't specifically ask, but if you put it up I'll sure as hell watch it. :mark:







:smile2:


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Watching some UK WWF PPVs today. Should get through One Night Only and Capital Carnage today. 

Hey Vince, you gonna put Vinnie Jones in the HOF cause he showed up? :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah the HBK/Bulldog riot that infuriates me for differing reasons. Shawn being a prick but the match IIRC being rather good.

Vader/Owen and Bret/Taker tho too :lenny


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Bourne vs John Morrison (ECW on Syfy 04/14/09)

Saw this pimped elsewhere and I randomly own that Morrison Rock Star DVD so thought I'd check it out as this match was during my wrestling hiatus.

Gotta say, I enjoyed it. Thought these two meshed superbly and I loved how the match mixed in the obvious high flying skills of both, esp Bourne, with some sound wrestling. Morrison was very aggressive here with knees, strikes and holds. Bourne was super as the babyface with his selling and using his guile to keep coming back at Morrison.

Morrison really took it to Bourne and Bourne timed his hope spots very well and kept the match at a high tempo throughout. Both bumped well as you'd think and helped make it a super fun match.

Great finish too with Bourne going for the Shooting Star Press, but Morrison met him and hit the Moonlight Drive. Recommended.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Demolition vs The Brainbusters (07/29/1989) (Saturday Night's Main Event) (2/3 Falls)

Two of my favorite teams. This is for the tag team championships.

Demo were always one of my favouite tag teams as a kid and i always get a big smile as soon as their music hits. Tully and Ax start things off and Tully sneaks a punch on Smash on the apron. He soon bails to the outside but Smash is there waiting for him, who picks him up and press slams him right back into the ring.

The Demos take it in turns to punch poor Tully, who's bumping is really great here. Ax is soon caught in the corner and Arn and Tully try double teaming him but he manages to fight out and it spills to the outside and this is now a mauling by the Demos and the brainbusters regroup with Heenan.

Arn is suddenly the legal man and he gets in control until Smash dumps him on his ass and the Demos remain on top until Tully quickly blind tags in and the busters finally look to get some sustained offense in.

Arn now in and SPINEBUSTER ~~~~!!!! gets a 2 count. Tully gets in to double team Smash until Smash dumps Arn on the top rope and gets the pin to take the first fall.

Back from a break and the Demos are still in control as Ax is working over Arn. Tully manages to tag in and he's straight on Smash by ramming his throat into the bottom rope and the busters start double teaming Ax. Excellent work here as cut the ring off and Arn keeps Ax close to Tully. Ax manages to tag Smash in though and he goes HAM on both Arn and Tully.

Heenan gets on the apron and takes quite a nasty bump when Smash rams his throat in the corner post. Didn't look nice for Bobby tbh. Demos work over Tully in the ring and Andre makes his way out.

They hit their finisher on Tully but can't get a pin as the ref waives them off and the second fall ends in a DQ. Busters get the second fall and now it's 1-1. Did the ref DQ them for the prolonged double team then here?

Back from an ad break and Ax again is in there with Tully, who takes a big flying bump over the top ropes. Ax and Arn trade blows until Arn gets an atomic drop into the corner and they both bump heads. Arn gets the tag to Tully but so does Ax to Smash, who throws Tully into the corner.

Andre throws Arn a chair, who wallops Smash over the back of the head and Arn covers Smash to win the match and to finally end Demolition's title reign.

This was ok. Constant action with very little down time, but with a DQ in the second fall and fuckery in the third, it was very chaotic. There wasn't really much time for a sustained FIP segment either and as soon as any the Busters tried to gain some control, the Demos cut them off before long. But Tully was usually the one in sole trouble at times.

Still a fun match thanks to Tully and his bumping, stooging and selling everything. It was mainly a story of Demos using their power and the busters doing anything to survive and using ways to stay in there and use any advantage they could to get the win. Classic formula really.

-----------------------------------

John Cena vs Umaga (WWE Royal Rumble 2007)

:done

Holy fuck I forgot how much this match RULES. Cena is incredible here and so is Umaga. So many great spots with the steel steps, Cena getting busted open and if course the ending with the turnbuckle.

Cena is all bloodied up taking shots from Umaga, and then punches himself in the head a few times egging Umaga on. Cena is the ultimate underdog here and his selling is fantastic. So is Umaga's offense in first targeting the ribs and then when Cena is busted open, he starts on the head.

Those steel step shots too :done

Incredible match and it's become one of my favourite ever in WWE history. It's phenomenal. Cena's hope spots timing and comeback are pretty perfect and so is Umaga at his cut off points.

Even if you don't like Cena; this is a very special performance and is pretty much a career defining performance IMO


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (WWE Raw 02/29/2003)

So these two have had a million matches and the only one I've liked is their Summerslam classic...........UNTIL NOW!!

Man, this Raw match was excellent. HHH was of course dogshit most of that year but he finally bought the goods here and so did HBK. It's got the classic heel/babyface vibe too with Shawn putting in a fine underdog performance and HHH having an equally good heat segment. HHH wasn't plodding here and it helped the match keep a good pace and kept it compelling throughout.

Good crowd too in Texas and it's one if the best Raw matches for sure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Cena/Umaga :lenny

I don't remember seeing that HBK/HHH match unless I have never watched it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Umaga is a ***1/4 match at best. Awful, awful finish that makes me wanna punch someone in the face.

HHH/HBK's best match is from Raw 06. Its fairly short and nothing but a fight between the two. No 30 minute attempt at trying to have an EPIC match. Just a FIGHT between two old rivals that doesn't drag on.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

It is literally torture watching these DOA, Boricuas, Nation matches. Trading wins between each other whilst never getting anywhere from it. And Crush having a Heart Punch as a finisher :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zrc said:


> It is literally torture watching these DOA, Boricuas, Nation matches. Trading wins between each other whilst never getting anywhere from it. And Crush having a Heart Punch as a finisher :lmao


Ahhh the AE undercard . If it wasn't for the main event scene and part of the upper mid-card scene being so hot, the ratings would have utterly tanked with the rest of the shit on the shows lol.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Ahhh the AE undercard . If it wasn't for the main event scene and part of the upper mid-card scene being so hot, the ratings would have utterly tanked with the rest of the shit on the shows lol.


Tbh later on it's the midcard that keeps my interest. I can only see the same main events so many times before I get bored. I don't recall most of 97 at the time it was on TV as I missed loads here and there. I used to be a huge Crush mark, but for the life of me I'll never understand why. I'll just put it down to him wearing facepaint, like I marked for Warrior and LOD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger & Barry Windham (NWA Clash of the Champions I)

:done

Fucking great match with one hell of a hot crowd. They just love Luger esp, who's great here at keeping it simple and using his power right from the off. He puts Tully in the rack within the first few minutes. We then get Luger playing FIP as Arn and Tully work on his leg. Hot tag to Windham and the crowd explodes again.

Tully and Arn are always such a joy to watch not only for their no nonsense and direct offense but in the way they bump and sell like mad for the babyfaces.

The finish with Luger using the chair gets such a huge reaction. Blanchard made the faces look great as he always does. Windham brought that awesome babyface selling and Luger was the powerhouse and the crowd and myself lapped it all up with glee.

A wonderful tag team match. One of the hottest crowds you'll find and just balls to the wall non stop action.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Brock said:


> Evan Bourne vs John Morrison (ECW on Syfy 04/14/09)
> 
> Saw this pimped elsewhere and I randomly own that Morrison Rock Star DVD so thought I'd check it out as this match was during my wrestling hiatus.
> 
> ...


Is this the one where Morrison hits Bourne with that absolutely disgusting knee through the ropes and Bourne just slides off the apron in slow motion? :lol

2009 Morrison was a total beast, guy was pumpin' out so many fun matches like nobody's business at the time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fit Finlay vs Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 9 07/26/11)

So this match is very well pimped in most circles and I remember uploading it for someone years ago but I'm not sure if I ever got around to watching it myself. I was reminded of it yesterday so thought I'd see what all the fuss is.

:done Finlay

Don't care if were a pro wrestler, I'm not sure i'd want to face Finlay when he's in this mood. In fairness to Callihan, he took most of Finlay's punishment and tried his best to bring some himself.

But Finlay was a fucking brutal machine here. Right from the bat when Sami ran at Finlay and Finlay dumped him right down with one hell of a forearm. Yup, that set the tone of the match.

Finlay was super aggressive in everything he did here. Shit like strikes, elbows, throws and headlocks were put on with such force, it's a miracle Sami could stand. Some real nasty leg submissions and Sami gets beaten and bended to fuck. Headbutts are met with sounds of thunder.

At one point, Callihan wants to go strike for strike "like men", but Finlay responds by shouting "How can we fight like men when I'm the only man here?"

:done

Finish typifies the match too. Callihan has had it, but he refuses to stay down after a Celtic Cross. Finlay gives him another, but Callihan just won't stay down. He defiently flips him the bird, so Finlay picks him up and plants him with a tombstone. Wonderful match and experience.

A proper war and watching Finlay inflict this much damage was both scary and sooooo entertaining at the same time. Callihan though in fairness bought out a very fine performance here. He kept taking all the shit from Finlay and kept hanging in there and was defiant to the end.

Stiff as fuck match and I looooooved it.

So glad I watched this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I forgot about that Michaels/HHH from 06. I remember liking it. Probably Michaels' best match that year.



Brock said:


> Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger & Barry Windham (NWA Clash of the Champions I)


This match is THE TITS. The match from 4/20 is even better IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sami fuckin Callihan around that time. Absolute genius. He and Generico were easily the best in the world.

they still p. much are, but its all about opportunities and changes since then, etc. WATCH CALLIHAN VS BRODIE LEE FROM EVOLVE NEXT.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

CALLIHAN/LEE :sodone :sodone :twentytrillionmoreflooredHenrys


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I forgot about that Michaels/HHH from 06. I remember liking it. Probably Michaels' best match that year.
> 
> 
> 
> This match is THE TITS. The match from 4/20 is even better IMO.


(Y) Was planning to along with Windham/Blanchard.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Sami fuckin Callihan around that time. Absolute genius. He and Generico were easily the best in the world.
> 
> they still p. much are, but its all about opportunities and changes since then, etc. WATCH CALLIHAN VS BRODIE LEE FROM EVOLVE NEXT.


Will do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sami Callihan vs Brodie Lee (Evolve 8)

This starts out similar to the Finlay match when Callihan goes straight for Lee as soon as the bell sounds but is met with a thunderous heavy slap to the face.

:jones Definetly felt that one already.

I like the main basis of the match and thst again Sami uses the working from underneath formula that suits him. He's just trying to survive early on here as every attempt at some offense is met with clubs by Lee.

Some heavy slaps from Lee in this and Callihan and Lee engage in a killer chop battle. Callihan brings some big kicks to bring Lee down but Lee comes back with a big boot. Always love a big boot.


Callihan flips out the referee when he asks Callihan if he wants to quit. More defiance here just like in the Finlay match. Sami goes through the ropes and it descends into a brawl on the outside. More heavy chops and Sami is dead.

You've just gotta get behind Sami here as that plucky but tough babyface as he keeps coming back at Lee.

Last stretch of the match consists of both of them hitting everything and both getting some nearfalls. Lee can't keep Callihan down for good as he keeps surviving and fighting back and he rolls up Lee for a close 2 count.

Lee hits a Liger Bomb for 2 here too.

Sami eventually gets his comeback and hits one hell of a stiff flying forearm. He eventually puts Lee in the Stretch Muffler and he ends up tapping out.

Really enjoyed this. In this and the Finlay match, Sami is great as the underdog babyface surviving best he could but bringing the tenacity and toughness needed to come back and take it both of them. He just won't stay down and no matter what they throw at him, he hangs on in there without a care. Another good, stiff match.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Anyone know where I can find that Ki vs. Callihan match from JAPW?? I don't think I even watched much of Callihan (if at all) back in 2011, mostly because I spent that year just devouring 90's All Japan, but I recall being under the impression that he just spent most of that year getting the absolute piss beaten out of him :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs Rob Van Dam (WWF Vengeance 2001)*

:done :done :done :done :done :done :done :done

The build up video is great too showing Taker beating up J.R and cementing his heel turn.




























HOLY FUCK~~~~~!!!!!!

I know this match was rather great and a hidden gem but lordy did I enjoy revisiting this one. Taker has just transformed into 'Big Evil' and this was his first PPV match in thst incarnation. They fight all around the arena, using all sorts of weapons and RVD hits several big spots including diving off of the balcony and generally flying all over the shop.

Fun as fuck and despite losing, I though it still come out making RVD look good in that he had his fair share of offense in tgis and more than contributed to making it the match it is. These two meshed well and Taker already fitted nicely into his new persona.

Love how it starts out with RVD trying to hit and run his way around Taker. He does a great whirl off the too rope and he gets some nearfalls as he takes it to Taker until Taker dumps him over the ropes with a big boot.

Then it's mainly a super ass brawl all over the arena with Taker in control punishing RVD, who uses all his flying and hard-core skills to time his hope spots and try and inflict damage on Taker. Forget wrestling, this is just a wonderful, fun brawl that is just fun to enjoy. Keeps the pace fast too throughout and is a total blast.

Probably still under appreciated to a lot of fans who have simply forgotten about it. k


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Barry Windham vs Tully Blanchard (NWA World Championship Wrestling 01/23/1988)*

Yeah, Barry fucking Windham.

Every time I see a match of his from around this period, I come away knowing just how great he was in his pomp. Really great.

Love the start of this with Tully doing his classic bumping and stooging, with Windham chasing him all over the ring and laying in some delicious punches and of course Blanchard is a master at taking punishment and selling his ass off.

But Windham is just as good here with his selling and making the match have an even flow with Tully. We get a break when we're back, Tully drags Barry by the leg and wraps it around the post and then slam a chair against the knee. The heat segment here by Tully is really great and Windham sells the leg about as well as anyone. At one point he tried to suplex Tully but couldn't manage it due to his leg.

The knee work is tremendous by Tully and Windham gives back one of his best performances here too.

He tries to hit a superplex but his knee gives way but hits a big lariat and goes for a cover but only gets a 2 because JJ Dillon has rang the bell. Here comes Luger to try and get some justice for Barry. After rewatching all this, referee Tommy Young is ready to restart the match. Tully goes straight for a small package until Luger steps in and TULLY JUMPS ON LUGER!!!

All hell breaks loose now.

The Horsemen storm the ring. They give Windham the chance to deck Luger, but he attacked the Horsemen! Sting comes out too and Sting/Luger/Windham end up together and with the super faces looking strong.

Even a fan gets in the ring here and Arn literally just kicks the crap out of him :lmao

This match is tremendous. I'm not an expert on either, esp Tully, but this has to be one of the best from either. Blanchard is mostly known for his work with the horsemen and his match with Magnum, but he was just as good as Windham here and his heat segment was so well done and Windham was the perfect opponent to take it and sell it like he did.

Tully has a fantastic match with Ronnie Garvin too, plus of course the Magnum match and this one has to be ranked just or at least near as high IMO. Such a compelling match with Windham as the perfrct babyface and Tully not only bumping as we know he can, but taking it to Barry and just destroying the knee throughout and bring the classic heel in taking full advantage of the screwy finish in classic fashion. Windham is great and selling throughout and having that never say die attitude in staying in the match on one leg but always having that one big moment in him to try and pin Tully 

Wonderful match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs Doink the Clown/Bret Hart vs Jerry Lawler (WWF Summerslam 08/30/93)

:done

This whole angle was done so fucking well and this is just so awesome and a ton of fun. Of course Jerry attacked Bret back at KOTR and so a match was made for Summerslam.

We first get Lawler out and he was comedic gold is his promo. Explaining how he'd been in a pile-up and barely survived the wreckage. Unfortunately due to a horrific knee injury he was barred from competing and Doink was to be his replacement. He was just perfect here and the ultimate scummy heel and cut one hell of a promo.

Just fantastic stuff.

So we get a Bret/Doink match first of all and it was really good, and Doink busted out moves that we didn't really see often in WWF. Bret was fine too, trying to get at Lawler first before getting on with the match at hand. We always say it, but Doink was so very fucking good. A clown character who can put on honest to god good wrestling matches shouldn't work, but of course it so did.

But of course this was just the warm up to the real reason everyone is out there and what we're all waiting for.

Lawler is so great as a heel. He looks to escape all this before Tunney shows up and the match with Bret must happen tonight after all.

Someone described it as wrestling theatre and it was. Just a ridiculously great angle that kept you watching for Lawler's eventual demise. The king was the king here for how slimey he was trying to dodge a match with Bret and their brawl was fucking excellent. Bret, for all his technical wrestling shit is also pretty wonderful as an all out brawler and this match is a perfect example of this. If it wasn't for Lawler and the story going into this, Bret could have easily have played the heel with how intense he was here. He kicked ass like no other here and the refusal to release the sharpshooter ending was perfect for the hatred he had for all that Lawler had done over the weeks.

Bret pulling the straps down :banderas

Just a wonderful brawl that was kinda unique to the WWF at the time during this period and it made for an intense experience. A visceral fight thst made for compelling viewing. I remember hearing Bret say that Lawler really stiffed him at KOTR with that sceptre shot, so he made sure to get some of his own stiff shots back on him at Summerslam lol. It's all bittersweet too as Lawler is judged to be the eventual winner due to Bret's refusal to break the sharpshooter. But Bret at least got to kick the living shit out of him to get there.

A classic angle and one of the best in WWF. Long live the king; both of them.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Taker/RVD :lenny :mark:

Always loved that match. Taker/Jeff is great too (Ladder Match), can't remember the year off the top of my head. Jeff is great as the underdog.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

2002


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Oh yes of course. Taker as a heel. How could I forget. BIG EVIL


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Is the lighting off with Summerslam and Unforgiven 01 or was it when they transferred them on the Tagged Classic sets? Only seems to be when they're in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callihan vs Brodie is the best thing from this decade.

Now I want to try and make a top 10 b/c the decade is almost over. Shield vs Wyatts I, Generico vs Callihan 2/3 falls, Shield vs Rhodes Bros from Battleground, Callihan vs Cole Ironman, Zayn vs Neville from R:Evolution, Generico vs Steen BOLA 2011 finals, Naito vs Omega I are all immediate shouts off the top of my head. Probably the 2014 Elimination Chamber match, too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Callihan vs Brodie is the best thing from this decade.
> 
> Now I want to try and make a top 10 b/c the decade is almost over. Shield vs Wyatts I, Generico vs Callihan 2/3 falls, Shield vs Rhodes Bros from Battleground, Callihan vs Cole Ironman, Zayn vs Neville from R:Evolution, Generico vs Steen BOLA 2011 finals, Naito vs Omega I are all immediate shouts off the top of my head. *Probably the 2014 Elimination Chamber match, too.*


Really? The rest of the ones you listed I totally understand coming from you, but I feel like this one is really random. I had to look it up just to remember who was even in it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Easily the best match the gimmick has to offer. Don't like a lot of 'em, but this one was perfect & captured a lot of brilliant areas of the gimmick, everyone involved, and the hot Danielson rising to the top angle. I thought I wrote something on it, but I can't seem to find it anyways. That's too bad. Either way, looooove it.

Thinking of more while away:

CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar (duhhhhh; this makes the list)
Sami Zayn vs Shinsuke Nakamura
Tetsuya Naito vs AJ Styles - G1 Climax Night 4 7/26/14
El Generico vs Kevin Steen - ROH Final Battle 2010 Career vs Mask
Zack Sabre Jr. vs Timothy Thatcher - EVOLVE 9/13/14

Just remembered Naito vs Styles from G1 2014. Good lord. That tournament has loads of appeal, but this match was the big takeaway. While nowadays I guess a good amount of people would be stunned that Styles was such a great heel & Naito was a demanding, strong babyface, but this match proves it was once reality. All things listed though either will make it, or has a great chance of doing so.

I'll end this w/wanting to watch Callihan vs Drake Younger (Ironman & Guerrilla Warfare) again. I haven't even thought about Chikara stuff during their peak yet. Hmm. I'm on the right track for what I know to be the best stuff overall. I'll probably end up compiling favorite matches per year through this decade anyways for fun. (that way I can get some Revival shouts out there.) :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Have a custom comp of the Zayn/Owens NXT feud and have finally decided to go through it today. Made it to Zayn/Neville from R:Evolution.

:banderas 

HOLY fuck was this match pretty much perfect. The storytelling was off the charts with Zayn's journey finally coming to fruition. Excellent crowd and one on the best feel good moments in wrestling. The mstch had pretty much everything you could want.

Owens/Zayn starts here.....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Jerry Lawler (Memphis Wrestling 08/29/82)*

A match I've never seen but given it actually happened and in Memphis, wanted to finally check out.

Flair is in the studio with his NWA championship belt and he's here to sign a contract for a match in Memphis. As most of you know, he was a travelling champion who travelled all over defending the belt.

Ric looks great here in his very nice suit and classic shades and cuts a promo explaining why he's come to Memphis to defend the belt and show everyone what he's all about. Flair agrees to wrestle the southern champion at some point in the near future.

"I'll be back shortly. Prepare yourself because the magnificent one is going to show you why he wears the 10lb gold that makes him the greatest professional wrestler alive today"

:flair3

Back to the studio and Lawler is out, who's the southern heavyweight champion. He wants to shake hands with Ric, who's in the studio preparing to have a match with I presume a local jobber. They shake hands and it's a unique sight to see them here face to face.

Lawler cuts a promo on Flair, lobbying himself for a match with Flair tonight instead of the Rick McCourt, saying he's more deserving of the match. Flair responds by saying all the people are there to see Ric Flair and it doesn't matter who hes facing. Lawler puts forward the idea of a match between them now, which Flair agrees to in a 10 minute TV non title match. Lawler wants it be a title match though, which Flair eventually agrees to.

Already a great angle as they play off each other really well.

So to the match. I thought it was a fine match given it was only 10 minutes and it was on TV. Maybe not quite the classic one would envisage it being given it's Lawler/Flair, but it was a fun match and I'm still glad it happened as it was great just seeing them in the same ring in this setting. Lawler looked a little restrained here and they work a basic match, which could have been the idea. He stuck to a headlock mainly and it was soon down to Flair to provide the main offense.

But to me this was more about Flair, as he busted out a variety of stuff in a showcase of sorts and I was more engaged watching him on offense.

The time limit expires while Flair has him in the figure-4 and since he could submit him, Flair wants him for 5 more minutes. Lawler makes a comeback and shows fire here and slams Flair all over the ring.

Flair ends up bailing, being counted out and taking the championship with him.

The post-match angle is great though with Flair putting out a bounty on Lawler's head and delegating it to Jimmy Hart. Flair cuts another great promo here.

As a match it's not something epic or anything, but it's more than worth watching for the great angle surrounding it and seeing them together. But as a Memphis angle, it's great and recommended viewing. Just don't expect an all time classic 10 minute match in the middle. Watch it for the whole angle because as a package; It's still a classic.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Corey said:


> Really? The rest of the ones you listed I totally understand coming from you, but I feel like this one is really random. I had to look it up just to remember who was even in it.


2014 Elimination Chamber was a sleeper MotYC for me, too. Top 10/15 for the year with a GREAT Cesaro/Danielson performance. I think Cena had a great one in it, too. Everyone forgets about it because it's so overshadowed by the epic Shield/Wyatts match earlier on in the show.



Martins said:


> Anyone know where I can find that Ki vs. Callihan match from JAPW?? I don't think I even watched much of Callihan (if at all) back in 2011, mostly because I spent that year just devouring 90's All Japan, but I recall being under the impression that he just spent most of that year getting the absolute piss beaten out of him :lmao



The one from, like, 2011 or 2017? Because 2017 one is the MotY. Never seen the 2011 one but it's probably on Highspots or something. IDK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What I would give to see a 20 minute match between those two for the world title :trips5. @ Flair/Lawler


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Also hi


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't remember the EC 2014 match at all, just remember a bunch of rather great TV matches between Orton and his opponents every week and matches with some of the other opponents going at it against each other too.

2005 chamber still beats out everything for me though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Rah is here :hi

Happy New year folks :smile2:

-----------

Fabulous Ones vs Moondogs (Memphis 6/13/1983)

:done Now this is how you do a sub 10 minute brawl. Tables, chairs, ring bells everything but the kitchen sink ended up in the ring. The match actually got thrown out 2 minutes 39 seconds in because the Moondogs kept belting Calhoun, but it doesn't stop them. They keep brawling for another 8 minutes or so and it it's tremendous. They judt beat the shit out each other with everything. Calhoun in particular gets a beating here. Just a surreal sight seeing the carnage here and the crowd were super hot.

This was ECW in 1983 and I fucking loved it. People need to watch this shit. Not sure if it's online, but I could up it if anyone wants it.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Never rated any chamber match tbh. First one was still the best though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, for the 1st time since WM 33, I watched a wrestling-related show in its entirety. I still vividly remember NXT Takeover: Orlando disappointing the ever loving crap out of me. Was it a bad show overall? Nah, but it was just.... meh. And compared to every previous Takeover before, which even the weaker ones had been quite enjoyable, meh just didn't cut it. This show left a huge sour taste in my mouth and reminded me of just how much NXT had fallen, to where even their most consistent outlet - the live PPV shows - was now underperforming. There were two matches I liked: the opening Tag, which was messy and spotty but fun; and the Women's Title match, which was pretty good. Apart from that, I didn't care about Aleister Black's debut, since I didn't think he brought anything particularly new to the table (apart from the cool entrance), though I didn't find the match particularly bad either; the Tag Title match was one of the most overrated matches this decade so far - yes, it had some amazing stuff in it, but it also had plot holes and dumb shit that pissed me off and really took me out of it; and the Main Event was a dull, plodding, bland and hyper forgettable copy-paste of Roode and Nakamura's previous match at San Antonio without the good in it. And by that, I mean the good character work, intense storytelling and Nakamura selling his leg in a half credible way. It was 25 minutes of unadulterated NOTHING. It was a pretty bad match.

Since WM weekend, I haven't seen any full wrestling show, as even the NXT shows were beginning to underwhelm me. Well, now, these many months later, I decided to give Takeover: Chicago a shot. If only because, maybe, just maybe, Orlando was a one-off in disappointment.

And, for now, my hopes lived on through. While Chicago is still probably the 2nd weakest Takeover PPV yet, as it had a similar structure to the likes of Takeover 1, Takeover: Rival and Takeover: Toronto - three good matches and two bad ones - but with the good matches having lesser quality than either of those three shows, it was still a good show overall. I can't say that two good matches + one great match out of five counts as less than good, even if the other two matches sucked. It was a good show, and definitely a step up from Orlando.

Roderick Strong vs. Eric Young.... existed. It sure existed. The match wasn't structurally bad or incompetent and had its moments, but I had zero investment in either of these characters. I never cared about Roderick Strong, and unless he's working with a very likeable babyface, Eric Young doesn't really do it for me either. This match was.... a match. A super basic, super bland match, and a match that I didn't really care about. I was dazing on and off constantly, which is not a good sign. I will probably have completely forgotten about it in a few hours from now. And again, I reiterate that I can't say that they did basic and bland outright poorly, the match seemed well executed technically. And if you like these two, you probably enjoyed it. I just didn't give a rat's shit about it. **1/2*

Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne, on the other hand... HOLY CRAP. For the record, I will say that I did not watch the United Kingdom Tournament match, but after this, I might have to. Was it perfect? No. Did I think it was otherworldly special? No. Were there some issues, particularly with selling (every now and then)? Yes. Was it still awesome and great? Absolutely. This is the type of match that is very exhibition-like, without a whole lot of intricate storytelling into it, but it didn't need to have that. Because, as an exhibition match, it is the kind of exhibition match that works: it was flashy and eye-catchy, but it never felt forced or contrived. It did feel like a fight. It felt like two young, hungry guys doing everything they could to keep the other down and win the title. Bate is a fantastic plucky babyface, and what is there to say about Dunne that hasn't been said? The man is an artist in the ring canvas. Impressive, perfectly paced, exciting, gritty.... 'twas a package of greatness. Easily better than Takeover: Orlando combined all on its own. *****1/4*

Asuka vs. Nikki Cross vs. Ruby Riot was a total, utter mess of a match. Easily the worst Women's Title match I can think of as far as NXT Takeovers go. Even the earlier ones like Paige vs. Emma and Natalya vs. Charlotte were better than this. It was a checkbox list of all WWE-style Triple Threat clichés you can think of: people rolling in and out of the ring for little things, pseudo one-on-one matches rather than an actual 3-way fight for the most part, spotty structure, illogical, sometimes pretty sloppy, etc.. I'll give it this: the characters at hand were entertaining, it was never boring like Strong vs. Young, and everything from when Nikki Cross attacked Asuka with the ring covers was good (except the ending, which was GODAWFUL in almost every way). And it's not 100% the ladies' faults, as I could see the talent in there and it being often hindered by poor booking. But Jesus Christ, every little good things I could nitpick are overwhelmed by all the suck involved with this thing. Worst match of the night, which I thought was gonna go to the opener, but it seems I owe that match an apology - boring and bland as it may have been, it was actually structurally competent. ***

Bobby Roode vs. Hideo Itami, off the bat, was already cracking me up with that piano hologram. They couldn't afford a real pianist or was that actually a joke for the entrance? :lmao Either way, the match was fine, it was alright. It was kinda... odd, structurally. I thought Itami was supposed to be the face and Roode the heel, yet it was booked pretty much backwards, with Roode fighting from underneath with an injured shoulder. Shouldn't that be Itami's role to fill, especially since he was the one who had shoulder surgery..... TWICE? I found amusement in the idea that Itami would turn those shoulder injuries against his opponent, and Roode sold the limb really well (apart from a few hiccups), but it was bizarre that the match was positioned that way. Itami himself also had spotty selling regarding the foot - definitely not Nakamura spotty, but kinda spotty. But overall, it was an entertaining match with a good clash of styles, good character work, decent pace and really strong selling from Roode. Not the best, but enjoyable enough. ***3/4*

Finally, Authors Of Pain vs. DIY had a legacy of actually good Ladder matches to live up to. Well, NXT Ladder matches have been good thus far. Dallas vs. Neville @ Arrival was pretty good, and Bálor vs. Owens @ Brooklyn I was very good. So how did this stack up against them? Well.... definitely a step down from Bálor vs. Owens, and around on par with, if not below the 1st one. Pretty good, but not great. The reason why it's not great is because there was a ton of Ladder match logic in there. And by that, I mean bad Ladder match logic, with a lot of time consumed by contrived setting up of ladders. ON THE OTHER HAND, there was also a lot of.... good Ladder match logic in there. Things that at 1st seemed contrived, but then turned out to have a good explanation behind them. Spots that actually came off as naturally set up, rather than clearly forced (not all of them, though). And a pretty good emotional core with DIY's desperation and friendship coming to play (Gargano saving Ciampa and sacrificing himself was easily the best moment of the whole PPV). It's definitely not a match that I will remember for very long, but for what it was, it worked. Ciampa's turn at the end was also well done. ****1/4*

So there you go, my overall thoughts on Takeover: Chicago. I enjoyed it, it wasn't great, it was just good enough, but again, it is still a noticeable step up from Orlando's mehness and I'm glad that I saw it. I will probably be watching Brooklyn III and WarGames soon, just to be all caught up with the ones I haven't seen yet.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rick Martel vs Nick Bockwinkel (AWA Winnipeg 9/20/1984)*

From my limited viewing if Martel outside of his WWF work, I already know he can be one of the best sellers in the world and this match goes a long way to further prove that. But Bock is just as good here too to be fair.

The match is filled with great desperation by both as Bock does some fantastic, heated and controlled work on the ribs of Martel, who sells them perfectly. Same with Bock selling his leg. Bock uses the wrong knee on a knee lift and can't capitalize as it gives way in a great spot. Match is filled with some classic selling by both and is now a mstch I'll note when talking about selling in a specific match.

So much urgency in the match too and they both try and destroy each other by targeting body parts and at one point the sheer exhaustion causes both of them to just collapse in the ring. Martel is so on point with the leg work on Bock and it's a credit to Bock for selling it so well.

Same with Martel selling the ribs. There's a great spot where Martel has Bock in a knee hold and is just punching the shit out of Bock as they're both on the mat.

Only downside is the non finish where Mr. Saito throws salt in the eyes of Martel, who has Bockwinkel in a Boston Crab. 1-2-3!?!?!?!?!? Bock wins??? After much deliberation, the belt is returned to Martel. So yea, rather disappointing finish to a great match. A pure masterclass in selling by both of them. A definite favourite now.

I do need to watch more of both for sure as everytime I watch a non WWF Martel match I get more and more impressed. He's just so good as the babyface. His selling is always spot on and it makes his comebacks all the better. Need to see more of Bock too as I'm only familiar really with his Hennig match I think.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Stan Hansen vs Nick Bockwinkel (AWA Wrestlerock '86 04/20/1986)*

Bock is waiting for Hansen in the ring and is swinging a bullwhip around. Awesome.

As Stan makes his way through the crowd, he randomly grabs some bloke in a suit and starts kicking the shit out of him :lol Turns out he's the co commentator as his colleague explains 

"I don't know if you saw it ladies and gentlemen but Stan the lariat Hansen went to work on my broadcast colleague Larry Nelson who has picked himself up and is ok" :bosque

This is already tremendous.

Both of these can't wait to get their hands on each other and are chomping at the bit. Hansen goes after the bullwhip at the outset, they tussle over it and Bock is able to start on top. Forget selling here, it's two blokes just wanting to beat each other up. Take no prisoners approach by both.

We all know how stiff Hansen is but Bock lays in some pretty snug shots here on Stan. He puts a sleeper on Hansen and they both end up on the outside and Hansengets the chance to lay in some big stiff kicks on Bock, who fights straight back with his own stiff punches.

We get a ref bump and Bock hits a crossbody and piledriver. But of course there is no ref. By the time the ref gets up, Hansen dumps Bock over the top rope for the DQ. This was a war in reality that often came across as a shoot at times, esp from Bock, who was really laying it in on Hansen, who if course took all his shit and came right back at him with clubs and holds. Both throw bombs and it's another Bock match today that I've enjoyed the fuck out of. This was two guys beating each other up and not giving a fuck doing it.

Both gave no quarter and just laid in on each other and it made in one big spectacle of a fight. Not a selling masterclass like the Martel/Bock match I just watched but it was still great. Yeah finish was shitty again here too, but the match was very emjoyable up until then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> Have a custom comp of the Zayn/Owens NXT feud and have finally decided to go through it today. Made it to Zayn/Neville from R:Evolution.
> 
> :banderas
> 
> ...


Where does the comp start at? Would rule if it showed all of Zayn's journey up until the championship win. Had so much wonderful stuff up until the pinnacle that was the R:Evolution Match.

The finish & the celebration 

then the post match breaking me into a million pieces :mj2



Rah said:


> 2014 Elimination Chamber was a sleeper MotYC for me, too. Top 10/15 for the year with a GREAT Cesaro/Danielson performance. I think Cena had a great one in it, too. Everyone forgets about it because it's so overshadowed by the epic Shield/Wyatts match earlier on in the show.


:cozy

Jheri, iirc, gave me a link to Callihan vs Low Ki and I still haven't watched it. :lmao 

Now he knows the pain he dishes out to me when I give him recs.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, after seeing NXT Takeover: Chicago, and enjoying it (although, it's probably the 2nd weakest Takeover ever imo - but Holy Shit, it's so much better than Takeover: Disappointment Orlando), I went ahead and watched Takeover: Brooklyn III, a show that I heard good things about. The 1st Brooklyn show was probably one of the top 2 NXT PPV's of all time imo (2nd only to R-Evolution), and Brooklyn II, while not as good as I, was still great nonetheless with a flawlessly consistent card from top to bottom.

Brooklyn III is a show whose card I didn't really have much expectations for when I saw it on paper, but like I said, I've heard plenty of good about it and I was prepared for at least a solid show. What I got instead was so, so, SO much better than solid. This was a fantastic PPV from start to finish.

Johnny Gargano vs. Andrade Cien Almas - the Main Event of the upcoming NXT Takeover: Philadelphia - is definitely a match that sounded interesting on paper. And it delievered. It was a very good opener (would've already been the 2nd best match on Chicago, and THE best match on Orlando). Perfect? No, not really. Some selling issues every now and then, particularly from Almas who was just no-selling Enziguiris and kicks to the head non-stop. And the climax, imo, felt like it was already running past its would've been peak in energy. I also didn't like how Almas made escaping Gargano's submission finisher look super easy. BUT, the ending itself was great, and I'm all for most of the booking decisions here... even the finisher - that's not actually a finisher anymore, according to Wikipedia - kickout from Gargano, as he clearly was a step above Almas credibility-wise, who had been a jobber for longest time. Also, Almas is a great heel, Gargano is a really likeable face, the two clicked like a motherfucker, the crowd was hot, the match was fun and exciting and it told a damn fine story... really good stuff, what else is there to say? ****1/2*

Authors Of Pain vs. SAnitY I expected to be an all-around BEEFY war. I... can't say that I got what I expected due to Eric Young replacing the big fat dude, but I still got a pretty decent brawl that I _could_ describe as a Shield vs. Wyatts wannabe (down to the wardrobes worn by both factions), but there are some things that make this stand on its own (sorta). Eric Young's FIP segment was pretty meandering and forgettable - partly because the Authors aren't the strongest FIP workers, partly because Young is not too interesting - and brings the whole package down as a whole, as does some of the kinda contrived "chaos" (I mean, that table spot... it wasn't the stupidest thing ever seen, both in setup and execution, but it was pretty corny). However, like I said, it was an entertaining little brawl with some shockingly strong hot tags from SAnitY, good character work from both teams, and surprising little tid bits of originality (such as Eric Young replacing the fat dude with the logic that the big fat dude had been worn out from the pre-bell ring brawl and he hadn't tagged in yet). And an outcome that I actually didn't expect, have to admit. Not the beef fest I wanted, but still fine overall. ***3/4-**** Not sure if I was a huge fan of Fish/O'Reilly raining on the parade, though.

Hideo Itami vs. Aleister Black... 1st of all, Black's entrance w/the live band was pretty fucking cool. That out of the way, this was an intriguing match to me, as I wasn't all into Black himself when he made his debut (just found him as same old, same old) so this was my 2nd chance to judge him properly, and Itami was apparently fully heel now, which is awesome. The 1st minute or so of the match was shitty, with a decent idea at play (the whole "who's gonna kick the other guy 1st" thing) but poorly executed with a TON of cringey no-selling. The rest of the match - apart from one instance of Davey Richards-worthy no-selling from Itami - was actually quite good. Black totally won me over. His presence, his flashy but gnarly style, his character work.... the guy's really good. And this was the best performance I've seen from Itami in the WWE. Heel KENTA has always been better KENTA, and this shows why - a cocky, arrogant, respect-demanding bastard controlling the match (rather than dullishly working from underneath) in often nasty ways. The two had good chemistry and they told a very good story.... despite some severe selling issues. ****1/4*

Asuka vs. Ember Moon was probably the MOTN of the super disappointing Takeover: Orlando for me (which is not saying much, but it was a good match), so I was curious as to how Asuka vs. Ember II was gonna play out. If Asuka vs. Ember I was good, then II was twice as good. It was excellent. Probably Asuka's best match in the WWE, surely up there, if not better than the match against Bayley @ Takeover: Dallas. What an awesome story these girls told - Asuka being an unbeatable bitch, Ember tried to get a rally on her as soon as possible, but it only takes one little opening and Asuka's back on top. Ember's selling of the arm was - for the most part, some hiccups notwithstanding - convincing enough, even doing some inventive things as using gravitational force as leverage to counter the bad arm in order to pull off a Suplex, and Asuka was pretty relentless in that arm work. And I gotta say: even though I already knew outcome, some of Ember's nearfalls still got me; and I was kinda heartbroken for her when she tapped out. It reminded me of Zayn vs. Neville @ R-Evolution or Revival vs. DIY @ Brooklyn II. It was a terrific match, and a great throwback to the glory days of the NXT women's division. Best NXT PPV women's match since at least Takeover: Dallas, if not since the Iron Woman match between Bayley and Sasha. ****3/4-*****

The Main Event, Bobby Roode vs. Drew McIntyre, completed a stunning fifth-fecta of awesomeness. On the con side, McIntyre completely no-selling TWO Implant DDT's in a row sucked, the pace was solid but sometimes too Roode-ish for my likes (and when I say Roode-ish, I mean "nothing really happened during strings of time"), and the dead crowd took away from the excitement. However, this was old school textbook wrestling done right. The cocky ass heel taking on the bigger, stronger babyface and doing whatever he can to avoid taking a shot from the big dude and stay on top is a very traditional story, and it was told pretty damn well here. That one sucky no-sell aside, McIntyre actually sold and presented himself pretty damn well as a face, and Roode is just a master at the character work game. A very solid match in pretty much every way, and a perfectly satisfying conclusion to a superb show. ****1/4-***1/2* And FUCK YEAH to Adam Cole. Holy Shit.

This was the best NXT PPV probably since Takeover: Dallas, and would probably rank #4 or #5 in the all time NXT PPV history of lineups for me, under R-Evolution, Brooklyn I and Respect. Fantastic PPV, all in all. Takeover: Orlando is redeemed, and you have my love again, NXT <3

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Where does the comp start at? Would rule if it showed all of Zayn's journey up until the championship win. Had so much wonderful stuff up until the pinnacle that was the R:Evolution Match.
> 
> The finish & the celebration
> 
> then the post match breaking me into a million pieces :mj2


It doesn't but it's still very good. Finished disc one.



Spoiler: Listings



Kevin Owens vs Sami Zayn - Destined To Do This Forever (3 Discs)

Disc 1
NXT 11/20/14 Kevin Owens Debut Promo #1
NXT 11/27/14 Kevin Owens Debut Promo #2
NXT 12/04/14 Kevin Owens Debut Promo #3
NXT 12/11/14 Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville Buildup Video
NXT R-Evolution 12/11/14 Kevin Owens Debut Promo #4
NXT R-Evolution 12/11/14 Kevin Owens vs CJ Parker
NXT R-Evolution 12/11/14 Sami Zayn & Kevin Owens Backstage
NXT R-Evolution 12/11/14 Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville
NXT 12/18/14 Kevin Owens & Adrian Neville Promo
NXT 12/18/14 Kevin Owens vs Adrian Neville
NXT 12/25/14 Kevin Owens Interview
NXT 01/01/15 Sami Zayn Interview 
NXT 01/01/15 Kevin Owens Interview
NXT 01/08/15 Sami Zayn Promo
NXT 01/14/15 Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville Aftermath
NXT 01/21/15 Owens vs Zayn Recap Video
NXT 01/21/15 Sami Zayn Wants Kevin Owens
NXT 01/21/15 Kevin Owens Interview



Disc 2
NXT 01/28/15 Contract Signing
NXT 02/04/15 Sami Zayn Interview
NXT 02/04/15 Kevin Owens Interview
NXT 02/04/15 Owens vs Zayn Buildup Video
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Kevin Owens Arrives
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Sami Zayn Arrives
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Pre-Show Panel
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Kevin Owens Backstage
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Sami Zayn Backstage
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Kevin Owens vs Sami Zayn 
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Sami Zayn Helped From Ringside
NXT Rival 02/11/15 Kevin Owens Interview
NXT 02/18/15 Kevin Owens Promo
NXT 02/18/15 Sami Zayn Update
NXT 03/04/15 Sami Zayn Promo
NXT 03/11/15 Kevin Owens Promo
NXT 03/25/15 Kevin Owens Promo
NXT 04/01/15 Sami Zayn Promo
NXT 04/01/15 Kevin Owens Promo
NXT 04/22/15 Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn Brawl
NXT 04/29/15 Kevin Owens, William Regal & Sami Zayn Segment

Disc 3
NXT 04/29/15 Sami Zayn vs Alex Riley
NXT 05/06/15 Kevin Owens Interview
NXT 05/06/15 Sami Zayn Interview
NXT 05/13/15 Sami Zayn Raw Recap/Interview
NXT 05/13/15 Face To Face
NXT Unstoppable Preview
NXT Unstoppable Kevin Owens Interview
NXT Unstoppable Kevin Owens vs Sami Zayn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's too bad, but that sounds like a fun capsule of their NXT program. Adding in the rise of Zayn, plus the main roster culmination w/the Battleground win for Zayn (maybe even up to the eventual union) would be a great comprehensive look at their associative run in WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Butch Reed vs Buzz Sawyer (Mid-South 12/31/1985) (Dog Collar Match)*

:done

More Buzz fucking Sawyer. You gotta love him.

Further gold of Mid South.

Piper/Valentine is prob still the best match of this stip, but with the Duggan/Sawyer dog collar match and now with Reed/Sawyer, there's two others that are right up there. Pure hatred and violence with a great heel and a super babyface.

Reed is over big with the crowd as the big babyface looking for plenty of revenge on Buzz. He says he'll go with the dog collar match as long as it's a no dq too.

Yeah, he wants to kick some was here.

He lands a big punch right from the start and is chokingthe shit out of Buzz with the chain. Crowd is hot for Reed as he's so fired up and just keeps yanking Buzz back by the chain and within the first couple of minutes, Buzz is already busted open. So Reed pounds on his head with the chain wrapped around his hand. They're soon on the outside as Buzz, who's a bloody mess now, takes over and starts inflicting punishment back on Reed with the chain.

Sawyer is such a perfect heel and Reed plays the great never say die babyface, who's also tough as nails and just keeps fighting. Sawyer ends up ripping off his Dog Collar and ties Reed to the bottom rope. Reed tries to get out of it and make some sort of come back, but it's too late. In a scarily brutal finish; Sawyer goes to bulldog Reed, but because he is tied to the bottom rope, he is yanked back violently to the ground.1-2-3, Buzz Sawyer wins. Slater and Sawyer look to double team Reed, but Duggan makes the save, only to be clothesline brutally by the chain.

Awesome, awesome violent spectacle. Sawyer was his usual out of control self and Reed was great as the avenging babyface, with his fiery comebacks. Crowd were hot as usual too.

This was is just violence and hatred personified all in one glorious match. The finish was scary as it could have easily snapped Reeds' neck in two.

Tremendous stuff.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Wrestling marathon today. Gonna get through Vengeance 01, Rumble 02, NWO 02, Mania X8 & Backlash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been on a wrestling marathon all over the holidays as you could probably tell  Watching these AWA/Memphis/Mid South matches is such a joy.

But think I'll go back to some WWF later myself. Wanna watch that Rock/Taker match from NWO. Might watch Rock/Jericho from the RR too.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I was gonna do a Rumble marathon but I've seen a lot of them over the past month. Will probably have a Wrestlemania marathon though in February. I'll just have to grin and bear the older ones, I struggle through them. Maybe growing up when I did plays a part in it, but I just find anything early 90s and earlier too slow paced for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Random match viewing? This sounds like it fits the bill:






:cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So I watched Rock/Jericho from RR and it's still a favourite. These two work so well together and the action was fast-paced from the start. Yeah we get the fuckery finish and all that, but the match is super fun and entertaining throughout. Loved Rock reversing Jericho's rock bottom attempt through the table spot. Jericho's arrogance was great throughout and the only real slow bit was when he put Rock in a chinlock, but they quickly ramped the pace back up again before it spilled to the outside. The whole story going in made for a fun dynamic between them too.

Not sure if it's good as their No Mercy match, but it's highly enjoyable. Rock was very good in '02.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jheri, iirc, gave me a link to Callihan vs Low Ki and I still haven't watched it. :lmao
> 
> Now he knows the pain he dishes out to me when I give him recs.


I still have a Microsoft Word doc of you recommending me some Perry Saturn, four or five years ago. Watched none of them. I'll get to Okada/Kojima though. Or...was it...Tenzan....or Nagata. That one you told to me watch, whatever it was. I'm up to the USA G1 stuff in 2017 NJ viewing, and I'm picking and choosing, so I'm not far off. Wanna get as much done as possible before I fall behind in 2018 too, but I still have 40+ matches left to see. :/

I've not watched Callihan/Goldust yet either but that's because I'm scared it won't meet the five-years-in-the-making expectations. Best wrestler in the world at the time + one of my ten favourite wrestlers + half a decade of trying to find it. How can it live up?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Rock/Taker from NWO. Started off fiery with Rock running right to the ring and attacked Taker. The build up to the match seems to be very heated, including a tombstone on top of a car.

But in the match it felt rather flat. Taker dominated large portions of it, which is fine he's the big bad heel and Rock is the babyface hanging in and waiting to get his chance. But the pace hurt it somewhat IMO. I know the story was of respect and that Taker was out to simply still it into Rock, but I didn't feel very engaged in it.

Picked up when they went to the tables and Rock mounted a comeback, but there just wasn't much substance in getting there. I did like the brawling in the crowd and I felt it should have been more akin to this to begin with. Of course they then bring it back into the ring where it's more of the same.

Other people may have liked it more and it's not all bad, but disappointing considering the year Rock would have and Taker's gimmick at the time.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I really don't know why Vince didn't buy out everyone's contracts in 2001 from Warner. He ended up paying them all off in the end. Everyone mentions the Money he lost on things like xfl and BWF and WWF new York. But the biggest loss of money will be his handling of Invasion. And all because of his stupid pride.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

War Games Match:

The Super Powers (Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon) - Great American Bash – Atlanta, GA • July 4, 1987

Man for a first War Games match I thought this was great. Crowd were HOOOOOOOTTTTT!!! Loved Arn bumping all over the shop and Flair/Tully working together. Luger coming in and throwing guys around. Obviously there's blood flowing all around and it's a damn fine start for the concept.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, after one good show (Chicago) and one GREAT show (Brooklyn III), time to cap off my Takeover binge with Takeover: WarGames, the most recent of the shows, eminating from Houston, Texas. The 1st Texan Takeover, Dallas, is one of the best top to bottom wrestling supercards of the decade thus far. The 2nd, San Antonio, isn't one of the stronger NXT shows, but is still a very solid and pretty underrated show imo.

So, how did WarGames go for me?.....

It's only 2nd to R-Evolution as the best NXT PPV of all time imo. And if you consider that R-Evolution was as good as it was because of the pitch perfect booking (top to bottom it wasn't as great a card as some of the other shows), it is THE best NXT PPV ever. Yes, better than Dallas, better than Brooklyns 1-3, better than Respect...... I'm stunned. Two incredible matches, one other great match, a super fun opener, and.... a weak spot in the middle, but still not a DUD by any means. GREAT, GREAT, FUCKING GREAT.

Kassius Ohno vs. Lars Sullivan was my introduction to the latter, and I have to say, IMPRESSIVE. Sullivan is a really good monster heel - a gnarly, charismatically scary clubber who enjoys beating the ever loving shit out of his opponents with a face that I'm not sure if even his mother would love. He did great in his role here. And Kassius Ohno... I mean, he's Kassius Ohno/Chris Hero, the man can get good material out of just about anything he's given. This match was a very entertaining crunch fest of two big bulls trying to land KO shots constantly, and told a great story of no matter how much Ohno strikes, he can't seem to get this behemoth of a man that is Sullivan down. Super fun opener, I was definitely a fan of it. I think Sullivan could do with a better finisher, admitedly, and it was pretty short (felt like 5 minutes), but these two did more in a 5 minute sprint than a lot of people in tryhard 30 minute "classics". ****-***1/4*

Aleister Black vs. The Velveteen Dream was another introduction for me, as I had never seen Velveteen Dream before either. At 1st, I just thought to myself: "welp, 1998 called, cause Dude Love wants his gimmick back". But, hot motherfucking damn, I did not expect what I got. Actually I'm lying, cause I did see all the hype that this match had, so maybe I'm not as taken by surprise as everyone was at the time. Can't say, however, that the match disappointed me, cause it was kinda great. I will say that SOME of the no-sells - not all of them, as some worked for the story - annoyed me a little bit, and I did find the match just a tiny bit clunky every now and then. But they more than made up for whatever technical flaws they might've had with the stunning character work. That was a true character-piece epic if there ever was one, and the constant mind games between the two.... Dream wanting Black to say his name so fucking bad, and wanting to beat that name out of him if necessary, but Black never giving in to Dream's demands.... the teasing between the two, Dream going to some never-before lenghts (according to commentary) to beat Black and get that respect he wanted....... man, this is what wrestling is all fucking about! What an epic story that they told here. It clicked, it simply clicked in pretty much way. It was mighty impressive, and again, apart from some clunkyness here or there, this was incredibly fantastic and it lived up to the hype. *****1/4*

Ember Moon vs. Nikki Cross vs. Peyton Royce vs. Kairi Sane was yet another introduction for me, in this case to Kairi Sane, and... well, she won the Mae Young Tournament, but then again, TJ Perkins won the CWC and he fucking sucks, so yeah. I'm not saying Kairi sucks, though, but in this match, she really didn't do a whole lot. And when she did, she didn't look all that impressive. But then again, who did? This was another flopped multi-woman match in an NXT PPV. Granted, it was WAY, WAY better than the horrible 3-way from Chicago, as it actually had some semblance of story - it was basically Ember vs. Kairi, and Peyton would play that weasel heel trying to pick some bones up, while Nikki would just show up whenever cause she's crazy and all. And at times, this match felt well fought and inspired - particularly in Peyton's big German of Doom spot that was actually very well set up. The character work was also entertaining. The problem is that this match was also filled to the brim with WWE multi-person match clichés, just like the Chicago Triple Threat, with a lot of horribly forced setting up of spots and a lot of.... people rolling in and out of the ring for no reason. Sometimes those roll in-outs had some logic here, but mostly, they didn't. I can't say that I hated this match, like I hated its precursor, but... yeah, it failed to impress. Happy for Ember, though. ***1/4*

Drew McIntyre vs. Andrade Cien Almas sounded quite good on paper, and it delievered. It was pretty great, gotta say. The clash of styles clicked nicely, as McIntyre's gentle brute vs. Almas' cocky, sneaky flyer story worked very well. Rosita might have been my favorite thing about the match, though, as she added to the story immensely with her constant attempts to help Almas, and her aggressive pep talks to her... pupile, I guess? Either way, the two characters meshed strongly, and it created an interesting story with nice action and some very well booked close calls near the end that spiked my interest up. I was irked by one instance of Almas doing something not heelish at all (that big Moonsault spot), and I did find the pace on and off, but for the most part, this was a very good, very satisfying NXT Title match, and I'm happy for Almas as he is a great heel and this redemption arc deserved this conclusion (even if the ending felt rushed). ****3/4*

And finally, the big one. WarGames. SAnitY vs. The Authors Of Pain & Roderick Strong vs. The Undisputed Era. Holy crap. Now, was that pretty much a total spotfest? Yes. Was it.... the bad kind of spotfest? Nope. It was the good kind of spotfest. Why was it the good kind of spotfest? Because it actually told a story, it had selling, it had character work, and pretty much everything that makes wrestling matches good.... just with a lot of flashyness involved. Admitedly, there were some noticeably contrived spots, and it took a while before the match truly gained life. Not that the 1st 8 minutes were bad, they were just... not quite in 3rd, or even 2nd gear yet. They were a little on the boring side. But when the match did gain life (pretty much around when Authors came in, and especially after SAnitY's arrival), it turned into non-stop fun. Pure fun. Carnage everywhere. And dammit, I had a blast. It's the kind of spotfest that reminds me that you can book great spotfests without having to do away with every basic element of a wrestling match. You can still jump all over the place and not give up on selling and logic and story and every one of those little things. And I imagine some people will complain about how WarGames isn't just about spots and it's a gorey, violent hardcore war - and... although it makes sense to modernize WG, you could've at least tried to bring back the roof of the cage - but honestly, the approach they gave it didn't really bother me. This could've gone so, so, SO wrong, especially in the WWE's hands (and with the 3 v 3 v 3 format rather than the traditional 4 v 4). But they handled it smooth. Well done, NXT. *****-****1/4*

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thus I conclude my binge of rewatching the new wave of NXT Takeover shows, that I had missed since... May? Orlando's disappointment is still soaring with me, but these shows have reminded me that, even on its weakest form ever, NXT can still do some kick-assery. I now actually look forward for Takeover: Philadelphia, in the week of the Royal Rumble; and give you my all-time NXT PPV ranks, accounting for Chicago, Brooklyn III and WarGames.

_(and for the record, when I said yesterday that R-Evolution and Brooklyn I were the best NXT PPV's ever, I had totally forgotten about the existance of the Dallas show :lmao):_

R-Evolution
WarGames
Dallas
Brooklyn I
Respect
Brooklyn III
Brooklyn II
Unstoppable
The End
London
San Antonio
Arrival
Toronto
Fatal 4-Way
Rival
Takeover I
Chicago
Orlando

Top 10 NXT PPV matches:

Neville vs. Zayn @ R-Evolution
Zayn vs. Cesaro @ Arrival
Revival vs. DIY @ Toronto
Zayn vs. Nakamura @ Dallas
Sasha vs. Bayley @ Brooklyn I
Neville vs. Zayn vs. Kidd vs. Breeze @ Fatal 4-Way
Sasha vs. Becky @ Unstoppable
Bayley vs. Sasha @ Respect
Black vs. Dream @ WarGames
Bate vs. Dunne @ Chicago


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

New Years Resolutions, anyone?

I plan to watch one wrestling match a day (I watched all of, like, 10 last year!), post ITT at least once a week and get down to arguing why I still don't gotdam understand Charlotte with...Rainmakah?

AJ/Brock was great btw.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jheri, iirc, gave me a link to Callihan vs Low Ki and I still haven't watched it. :lmao
> 
> Now he knows the pain he dishes out to me when I give him recs.


I remember one of my first ever posts in TNA section was asking about Angle/McGuinnes recs. My memory says that you told me they suck and to avoid except one and gave me something to watch. Maybe 7 years later I'm sitting here like whoops.

[HIDE=2345]2011? Please say 2011...

The 2017 link floating around is mine.[/HIDE]


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lex Luger & Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (NWA World Championship Wrestling 4/23/1988)

More Barry fucking Windham :done

Having watched their Clash match the other day, wanted to finally watch this next. I just love these 80s crowds and how over both Luger and Windham are. I can safely say I could watch these two teams against each other all damn day.

Tully as always is a master at making the faces look like a million dollars every time. Arn is no slouch either and between them we always get some fantastic bumping and selling. Also, Lex and Barry are such a fun team that they are a joy to watch. They work so well together in cutting off Arn and Tully keeping one of them in the ring. 

Luger himself was great in this too. Not only getting the hot tag and coming in and wrecking shit, but also with his selling also. Windham was great in this regard too as he always is. Just love how over they both are and just how energetic Luger is at this time. He's fun to watch come in and use his power and get you and the crowd fired up.

Of course this match is about the big angle too. Windham is looking for a tag and Dillon is pointing out that "He is not here just like I told you.". A bloodied up Luger crawls to the apron and Windham tags him in..............and then bodyslams him?!?!?!? Windham hits Luger with a lariat and the Horsemen win the tag team belts. Windham leaves with Dillon and gives the 4 fingers sign.

What another great match between them. The aftermath is what is remembered but these four once again worked their asses off again. I probably prefer their Clash match, but this one was still tremendous and highly enjoyable. Plus it has the heel turn to cap it off so you get that extra element along with a great tag match.

What a pair of matches. Off to watch more Windham me thinks....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> New Years Resolutions, anyone?
> 
> I plan to watch one wrestling match a day (I watched all of, like, 10 last year!), post ITT at least once a week and get down to arguing why I still don't gotdam understand Charlotte with...Rainmakah?
> 
> AJ/Brock was great btw.


Mine would be watch the NXT Takeover shows, as after my heartbreak with Orlando they have proven to me that they can bounce back and be phenomenal again; watch WrestleMania because it's WM (and it's going to triumphantly blow); and go back to pretending wrestling doesn't exist anymore  (Although there is this thing called the Schmoedown which blends wrestling with a movie trivia competition, and it's the most afuckingmazing thing ever. *WATCH IT, IF YOU LOVE WRESTLING AND MOVIES.*)

For the record, I also watched AJ/Brock, out of curiosity, and yeah, I liked it a lot. Holy Shit, Brock Lesnar put effort in a wrestling match. Where has he been for the last 2 fucking years, I couldn't tell you. Can't wait for WM where, now that he finally woke from his slumber, he jobs to Reigns and the whole audience showers the ring in boos as the show fades to black. Ugh.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I fully intend to watch every tagged classic and ppv DVD I have up to 2010 in order this year. When I get round to it is anybody's guess. I tend to dip in and out of years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So you watched any today then? 

If so, tell us what you thought.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Got through Vengeance. Not much to say about it beside Taker/RVD being a hit with me. Always enjoyed Show and Kane as a team. Burned out of seeing Rock, Austin, Jericho and Angle so their matches did nothing for me. 

Rumble 02 was decent enough. Though none of the 4 returns (that were advertised) delivered after the fact. Goldust went on to mildly successful stuff with booker but Val, Godfather and Mr Perfect flopped big time. I seem to recall them advertising it as 4 former IC champs return at the Rumble, locally. Flair coming in was OK, but they could've done it months earlier. Shane should've given his shares or wherever to Bischoff in the story.

Probably watch NWO shortly and call it a night. Not had sleep since Friday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Be interested in your thoughts on Taker/Rock.

Cal probably likes it more than I did :evil


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> New Years Resolutions, anyone?


Keep with 2018 better. I'll probably be more picky than in 2017 because I'm not seeing some of these guys for the first time any more. I can skip much more New Japan main events and skip every single Will Ospreay.

Watch Buddy Rose, Nick Bockwinkel and Carlos Colon in (relative) depth.

Finally watch some super hyped matches I've never seen, like Hashimoto/Hase, Samurai/Kanemoto, Joe/Briscoe cage match, the 60s French match, Shield/Wyatts, Punk/Lesnar, Cena/Bryan, Togo/Honda, Joe/Morishima, etc.

Watch more 2000 than only getting to January 9th. Y'know what I mean.

Watch the Andre/Race you uploaded and shared to me two years ago. If it's still up.

Post ITT more. There were large chunks of 2017 where I didn't even click on this section.

edit - oh and I want to continually update this "every year YES" list I'm making.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jheri never seeing Wyatts/Shield or Punk/Lesnar :mj2

-----------------------

*Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns (WWE Fastlane 2015)*

First time watching this since it happened. I thought it was excellent at the time and I still think that as if now. Loved the start as Bryan is out to prove he's the best wrestler (well duh) as he takes Reigns to school with a headlock. Reigns uses his power to reverse this and dumps Bryan down and gets a 2 count pin. Bryan attempts to pit Roman in a surfboard but again, Reigns uses his power to throw Bryan away.

Already the story of the match is apparent and was the correct way to play this. Bryan soon goes for his trademark kicks and submissions to keep Reigns on the mat as much as possible. Reigns though just punches his way out of this with brute force. Bryan started targeting the middle section of Reigns with a series of big kicks, in a call back to Reigns' past injury in that area.

They exchanged nearfalls on a spear and Busaiku knee. Another one later had Reigns trying to pound Bryan down Bryan put him in a Triangle Hold that was broken via a powerbomb.

A spear attempt was countered with a small package nearfall by Bryan. It ending with Reigns getting a spear during a Busaiku knee attempt for the finish.

I'd still rank one of the AJ/Reigns matches higher, but this was an excellent main event and Reigns bought a lot to the party here and they told a good story of the technical wrestler who can try and beat you in many ways vs someone who will rely on power and force. It was speed vs power and I thought it meshed very well to supply an entertaining match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For you folks looking to keep up in 2018, Reigns vs. Joe tonight for the IC Title. If Reigns get DQed then he loses the belt. Should be another good one between those two. Last week delivered.

Also Styles vs. Zayn (non-title) as well as Usos vs. Benjamin & Gable for the Tag Titles tomorrow night on SD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Rock from No Way Out 2002 is great. Easy best of the triple main event on the show.



Yeah1993 said:


> I still have a Microsoft Word doc of you recommending me some Perry Saturn, four or five years ago. Watched none of them. I'll get to Okada/Kojima though. Or...was it...Tenzan....or Nagata. That one you told to me watch, whatever it was. I'm up to the USA G1 stuff in 2017 NJ viewing, and I'm picking and choosing, so I'm not far off. Wanna get as much done as possible before I fall behind in 2018 too, but I still have 40+ matches left to see. :/
> 
> I've not watched Callihan/Goldust yet either but that's because I'm scared it won't meet the five-years-in-the-making expectations. Best wrestler in the world at the time + one of my ten favourite wrestlers + half a decade of trying to find it. How can it live up?


I wonder how many of those Saturn matches I even still like. Basically, if I listed the Kanyon match from GAB '98, then WHAT IN THE HELL WAS I THINKING. There's a cool showcase match that had the audience LOVE Saturn at every turn vs Kenny Kaos on a September/October '98 Nitro. I probably didn't even list that.

It was Okada vs Kojima. :cozy If you watched Zack Sabre Jr. vs Juice Robinson or Zack Sabre Jr vs Tomohiro Ishii from the G1 Special in USA, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I imagine you'd dig those. (I lowkey want to pipe in Bucks vs RPG Vice III & Okada vs Cody (Rhodes) too, but largely it's the ZSJ matches that I know will probably be the best bet.)

I went into the Callihan/Goldust match w/the warm feeling of knowing Sami was once getting these kinds of matches all the time & it only padded his deep resume all the more. Left me  despite the years it took in finding the match.



Rah said:


> New Years Resolutions, anyone?
> 
> I plan to watch one wrestling match a day (I watched all of, like, 10 last year!), post ITT at least once a week and get down to arguing why I still don't gotdam understand Charlotte with...Rainmakah?
> 
> ...


Resolutions? Probably the same as Jheri in a sense that I don't fall behind this year. I'm not dead at the start of 2018, so I guess that's a good thing. Gonna try and stick w/following some other companies again, like CZW & cherry pick around some other indies. Which I never really did stop doing, but long story short, I want to be "one the ball" when it does happen.

I've maybe been harder on the first Nigel vs Angle match than needed to be, but that was to combat the sections nonsense at the time. But their rematch 3 Degrees of Pain is very awful. I'm dying to know what I told you to watch instead. I hope it was Daniels vs Styles from the same Final Resolution PPV. That's some great stuff.

Also for a resolution, I'll watch Callihan vs Ki from 2017. b/c, why wouldn't I want to watch that? (I ended up watching Ricochet vs Lio Rush from PWG last year and I was laughing within seconds by how horrid it was. So, my decisions lately aren't very good.)



Corey said:


> Also Styles vs. Zayn (non-title) as well


I'd be too stupid to get really hyped for this, but still on paper, FUCK. No idea how Zayn will roll as a heel in it, but I'm curious.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It was Okada vs Kojima. :cozy If you watched Zack Sabre Jr. vs Juice Robinson or Zack Sabre Jr vs Tomohiro Ishii from the G1 Special in USA, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I imagine you'd dig those. (I lowkey want to pipe in Bucks vs RPG Vice III & Okada vs Cody (Rhodes) too, but largely it's the ZSJ matches that I know will probably be the best bet.)


Definitely watching ZSJ against Ishii, will prob throw in the Juice match just because ZSJ's rocked in pretty much everything from 2017 I've seen him in. I thought Bucks/Vice at Dominion was good but I can't care about the Bucks enough to watch any more tbh. I'll watch Okada/Cody.


Watching Joe/Reigns from July rn so I can be read for their match later. Hopefully I can find the match from last week since it's not on the network.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Definitely watching ZSJ against Ishii, will prob throw in the Juice match just because ZSJ's rocked in pretty much everything from 2017 I've seen him in. I thought Bucks/Vice at Dominion was good but I can't care about the Bucks enough to watch any more tbh. I'll watch Okada/Cody.
> 
> 
> Watching Joe/Reigns from July rn so I can be read for their match later. Hopefully I can find the match from last week since it's not on the network.


ZSJ is one of those singular guys from this decade alone I've really liked/loved the bulk of what he's done. I hope you enjoy Juice. By "I hope" it stems from the fact that I like him A LOT, and he was one of the better babyfaces of last year. Another guy who quit WWE and made the most out of it. His team w/Callihan was really good. Okada vs Cody (Y)

Did you see Bucks vs RPG Vice from Wrestle Kingdom? I get not caring much, but this trilogy alone was the highlight of their 2017. The whole sequential order thing sticks out. Actually put enough "serious" emphasis behind the matches to where I loved all 3 outings. The third is def the most "epic" of the lot, w/it being the finale, so I can see how that even would make you potentially go "ehhhhhh". Although I stand it isn't overkill. Bucks keeping the powerbomb the shit out of a babyface on the ramp spot in all three ruled.

While Joe vs Brock sucked, & I def hated the 4 way from SummerSlam, Joe's 2017 was actually lowkey awesome, too. Like the company actually does treat him like SAMOA JOE. Which I still can't believe. Match last week vs Reigns sort of runs into similar territory as matches they had before, but its a good consistency. That bout just had that trademark crummy TV finish where the baby gets DQ'd like a total dickhead.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can also vouch for Bucks/RPG Vice from the G1 USA shows. One of the best tag matches of the year imo. Super underrated and forgotten because the rest of the stuff on those cards. Loved it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> ZSJ is one of those singular guys from this decade alone I've really liked/loved the bulk of what he's done. I hope you enjoy Juice. By "I hope" it stems from the fact that I like him A LOT, and he was one of the better babyfaces of last year. Another guy who quit WWE and made the most out of it. His team w/Callihan was really good. Okada vs Cody (Y)
> 
> Did you see Bucks vs RPG Vice from Wrestle Kingdom? I get not caring much, but this trilogy alone was the highlight of their 2017. The whole sequential order thing sticks out. Actually put enough "serious" emphasis behind the matches to where I loved all 3 outings. The third is def the most "epic" of the lot, w/it being the finale, so I can see how that even would make you potentially go "ehhhhhh". Although I stand it isn't overkill. Bucks keeping the powerbomb the shit out of a babyface on the ramp spot in all three ruled.
> 
> While Joe vs Brock sucked, & I def hated the 4 way from SummerSlam, Joe's 2017 was actually lowkey awesome, too. Like the company actually does treat him like SAMOA JOE. Which I still can't believe. Match last week vs Reigns sort of runs into similar territory as matches they had before, but its a good consistency. That bout just had that trademark crummy TV finish where the baby gets DQ'd like a total dickhead.


Oh yeah I totally forgot Bucks and Vice faced off at WK. I watched that and thought....IDR. I guess me not remembering thought it was passable. I don't remember thinking Bucks ever did anything all that overkill-style in 2017 but yeah I've just stopped watching them at this point. They're one of those things in 2018 that I'll be VERY cherry picky with.


I thought Joe/Brock was fine, wasn't enamored with it. Not seen Summerslam yet because behiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind but on paper it looks like the best match ever. I watched the Extreme Rules multi-way recently. It was a match.


Done with Joe/Reigns 7/17. I loved the February match, and part of that was context. Joe had come off of a boring ass feud with Nakamura in NXT and it seemed like maybe WWE Joe wouldn't be that much more worth watching for me than TNA Joe. Then he debuted on the main roster and kicked the ass of the guy who WWE are obsessed with bringing to the top spot. It was just a great, great way to put someone up on your roster, get his moveset through in a violent way, and he really felt like one of the baddest motherfuckers on the planet. This match...didn't have that. It was well done but it was a pretty basic babyface working upward match turned into some beefy slugging, and while that's good ass shit, I struggle to mention anything really all that special about it. Reigns is as awesome on selling as he usually is (he is, everyone, eat shit) with his coughing, stumbling and rubbing his jaw, Joe brought it on top, and they turned up the heat during he end stretch. It was just a pretty good match that didn't have anything that elevated it beyond that for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey said:


> Can also vouch for Bucks/RPG Vice from the G1 USA shows. One of the best tag matches of the year imo. Super underrated and forgotten because the rest of the stuff on those cards. Loved it.


(Y)



Yeah1993 said:


> Oh yeah I totally forgot Bucks and Vice faced off at WK. I watched that and thought....IDR. I guess me not remembering thought it was passable. I don't remember thinking Bucks ever did anything all that overkill-style in 2017 but yeah I've just stopped watching them at this point. They're one of those things in 2018 that I'll be VERY cherry picky with.
> 
> 
> I thought Joe/Brock was fine, wasn't enamored with it. Not seen Summerslam yet because behiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind but on paper it looks like the best match ever. I watched the Extreme Rules multi-way recently. It was a match.
> ...


Makes sense. But I'll always have a soft spot for 'em, even when they're not putting in the maximum effort. Although when they are w/Kenny Omega and clearly not giving a shit, that's hard to stand. Omega in general, despite all the fanfare, and I'm still a fan, but when that guy doesn't care, holy shit, he really is flipping everyone off & saying "I don't give a shit, but you're gonna pop anyways, so hahaha". Hate it. Kenny is worse at this than Bucks are, fwiw.

On paper, hell yeah that match should have been something I loved too. But it was the same tragic formula as everything else. They even had Brock leave the match from a table spot only to return 10 minutes later to win. But b/c Braun beat people up - and didn't get pinned - I had to be ok w/that. Nahhhhhhhh. Its stuff like this that makes me want to throttle WWE.

I still love the first two Nakamura vs Joe matches. But the matches in Japan & Australia was p. weak. All of that was...odd. You hit he nail on the head w/the Joe vs Reigns matches since the first one. They're quite good, not amazing, but good. Did you know Joe & Zayn had a rematch on RAW en route to WM? I just watched it a few days ago. I liked it a whole bunch. It's not Fastlane brilliant, but a damn strong follow up that I didn't know happened. idc what anyone says, the stuff Zayn had on RAW this year before getting put on Smackdown was sooooo much better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I still love the first two Nakamura vs Joe matches. But the matches in Japan & Australia was p. weak. All of that was...odd. You hit he nail on the head w/the Joe vs Reigns matches since the first one. They're quite good, not amazing, but good. Did you know Joe & Zayn had a rematch on RAW en route to WM? I just watched it a few days ago. I liked it a whole bunch. It's not Fastlane brilliant, but a damn strong follow up that I didn't know happened. idc what anyone says, the stuff Zayn had on RAW this year before getting put on Smackdown was sooooo much better.


I FORGOT ABOUT JOE/ZAYN. :mark: Didn't think it was super stand out as a match, but was a GREAT follow up for the way Joe debuted. Get in there and kill the little guy everyone likes! Zayn/Strowman from the first Raw of 2017 got a YES vote from me and only me (IIRC) in the MOTYC thread. Watched it a second time to make sure I wasn't overrating it (Strowman was new to me at the time). I really, really liked it.

Speaking of, I might be completely forgiving of any bullshit in the Summerslam 4way if I can just see Strowman wreck dudes.  


Ok Joe v. Reigns 12/25/17 did it for me actually. :mark: Reigns thinks he knows what Joe is capable of by now so he tries to get the JUMP on him to level Joe before Joe can get on top and dominate like he usually does. That ironically, and really without surprise, made Joe more willing to dominate, more aggressive and more violent. Reigns smartened up later and used Joe's own momentum against him, e.g. using Joe run up to deliver Samoan drop, moving out of the way so Joe lays flat, but Joe is too focused to slip up. The dive into the barricade AWESOME and it leading to the DQ because Reigns got overcome with emotion was a decent way to set up a rematch. I obviously would have preferred a regular ending but setting up a(nother) rematch that way instead of a run in is sort of a "I'll get what I can take" thing. Plus Reigns looking 'weak' enough to be taken over by the DARK SIDE and using the foreign objects post-match like that is a good counter to him just winning everything cleanly.

The superman punch being too much of an afterthought for my taste is really my only gripe. Joe sold the 'drive by' (ugh) well after he took it, trying to come to his senses even after whacking Reigns in the face, so seeing the superman punch (ugh) so shrugged off was lame.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I FORGOT ABOUT JOE/ZAYN. :mark: Didn't think it was super stand out as a match, but was a GREAT follow up for the way Joe debuted. Get in there and kill the little guy everyone likes! Zayn/Strowman from the first Raw of 2017 got a YES vote from me and only me (IIRC) in the MOTYC thread. Watched it a second time to make sure I wasn't overrating it (Strowman was new to me at the time). I really, really liked it.
> 
> Speaking of, I might be completely forgiving of any bullshit in the Summerslam 4way if I can just see Strowman wreck dudes.
> 
> ...


Braun vs Zayn is still crystal clear in my mind thanks to those glorious spots where Braun kept chucking Zayn all over the place. He did it a few times backstage where Zayn fell over these crates, & then it some more near the finish on the floor. Think he did it once on the stage too. He's just throwing this guy around and Zayn sells it wonderfully. So good. :mark:

Speaking of that, Braun didn't do any cool stuff like that for me in the 4 way. He did his usual - and WWE main event usual - big move through a table spot a could of times. And that was about it. I'm too much of a stickler (for lack of a fecking better term) to give a match that bugs me any leeway simply b/c someone I like did something. That's just me. Same way I feel about Revival vs DIY two out of three falls. Revival were amazing, per usual, but I really didn't like the match, so yeah. Not for me. Although Revival actually DID stuff that stood out. so now I made this minor comment into a paragraph again and idk why. Oh well, I hate the match, you might be tolerable about it. There we go.

Forgot about that barricade spot. That was great. I still will probably feel the same way about it once I saw it, but the finish like that just does bug me. It's not so much the cheapness of it or anything, but rather, I just don't like it when faces feel like heels way out of context. Even if the idea is "I hate this guy so now i'm pissed", too much of it felt overblown. I'm actually almost to Halloween Havoc '99 & Goldberg vs SID - iirc a match you loved? - operates like this. It left me cold. I'll know how I feel when I see it again, but yeah, it's around a similar mold.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Braun vs Zayn is still crystal clear in my mind thanks to those glorious spots where Braun kept chucking Zayn all over the place. He did it a few times backstage where Zayn fell over these crates, & then it some more near the finish on the floor. Think he did it once on the stage too. He's just throwing this guy around and Zayn sells it wonderfully. So good. :mark:


What I loved most about it I think is how Zayn used to props just to stay alive. Any match with a smaller guy against a massive guy with no DQs can easily come off like a huge stretch but I thought they gave Zayn perfect opportunities to get shit in without Strowman over-compensating just to get an illusion of even ground. Zayn earned it. His selling was great, yeah. And any match with big guy chucking around small probably has me won over for at least a couple minutes.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Forgot about that barricade spot. That was great. I still will probably feel the same way about it once I saw it, but the finish like that just does bug me. It's not so much the cheapness of it or anything, but rather, I just don't like it when faces feel like heels way out of context. Even if the idea is "I hate this guy so now i'm pissed", too much of it felt overblown. I'm actually almost to Halloween Havoc '99 & Goldberg vs SID - iirc a match you loved? - operates like this. It left me cold. I'll know how I feel when I see it again, but yeah, it's around a similar mold.


I love Sid/Goldberg, yeah. :drose

Ahh yeah I totally get that though. I like faces acting outside of the realm of faces but only when it's considered a "breaking point" or "out of character moment" of sorts. I do think it's way over-used, often as a cop out so wrtiers/whoever don't have to come up with anything else to give a babyface a real edge to them. That hurts it a lot and I'm sure there are some examples I can come up with that piss me off. I think I'm inclined to be pissed off by heels acting like faces though. Like that actually SUPER annoys me most of the time. :lol

I completely understand being bothered it ESPECIALLY following a year where Reigns himself tried to kill Strowman with the ambulance. :lmao :lmao One of them "this fuckin company" moments, that was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> What I loved most about it I think is how Zayn used to props just to stay alive. Any match with a smaller guy against a massive guy with no DQs can easily come off like a huge stretch but I thought they gave Zayn perfect opportunities to get shit in without Strowman over-compensating just to get an illusion of even ground. Zayn earned it. His selling was great, yeah. And any match with big guy chucking around small probably has me won over for at least a couple minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It helps when you realize that despite how massive Braun is, Zayn isn't a SMALL small guy. He's p. tall & has a decent amount of size to him. So getting stuff in isn't outrageous or a stretch, but he's always had that underdog approach working underneath that when he's vs a beast, damn does it work out super well.

Exactly. Chalk this scenario up to me watching everything WWE produces per year, so when I see it ALL THE TIME, it really does get watered down and feels like the same cop out stuff that's, not "hard to" separate, but def feels like the same ol, same ol when the guy did something like this either a month or few months ago. The death of Braun is the pinnacle & also the most ludicrous example of it, but it absolutely fits. Or when an entire locker room comes out to beat up the heels unprovoked and they spin it like I'm supposed to like these guys being outnumbering jerks.

Duuuude. I hate when heels work like faces as much as the face feeling like the heel. You know what match this pissed me off a LOT in? Rollins vs Cena from SummerSlam 2015. So much garbage. Cena didn't even work like a heel, but obviously he was hated. But Rollins worked like how he works today, 100% uber babyface. Then of course the hilarity of the finish being what it is, he cheats to win so he's all of a sudden still a heel. Leaves me w/a big "what the fuck?" level annoyed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It helps when you realize that despite how massive Braun is, Zayn isn't a SMALL small guy. He's p. tall & has a decent amount of size to him. So getting stuff in isn't outrageous or a stretch, but he's always had that underdog approach working underneath that when he's vs a beast, damn does it work out super well.
> 
> Exactly. Chalk this scenario up to me watching everything WWE produces per year, so when I see it ALL THE TIME, it really does get watered down and feels like the same cop out stuff that's, not "hard to" separate, but def feels like the same ol, same ol when the guy did something like this either a month or few months ago. The death of Braun is the pinnacle & also the most ludicrous example of it, but it absolutely fits. Or when an entire locker room comes out to beat up the heels unprovoked and they spin it like I'm supposed to like these guys being outnumbering jerks.
> 
> Duuuude. I hate when heels work like faces as much as the face feeling like the heel. You know what match this pissed me off a LOT in? Rollins vs Cena from SummerSlam 2015. So much garbage. Cena didn't even work like a heel, but obviously he was hated. But Rollins worked like how he works today, 100% uber babyface. Then of course the hilarity of the finish being what it is, he cheats to win so he's all of a sudden still a heel. Leaves me w/a big "what the fuck?" level annoyed.


Zayn about as tall as I am. :wtf2 Goddamn I ALWAYS forget he isn't like 5'9"



> Or when an entire locker room comes out to beat up the heels unprovoked and they spin it like I'm supposed to like these guys being outnumbering jerks.


This made me smile so much. 

And yeah I couldn't imagine paying attention to WWE's whole year. I mean that might contradict what I said about keeping up this year, but I mean 'keeping up' to me is 'what do I care about seeing?' and also watch some full PPVs. I think I'll watch Raw 25th Anny in a few weeks and the one after Mania but other than that fuck watching a full episode. I'll save that for 90s Raws. :cozy

I haven't seen Rollins/Cena (shock). I think my most hated example is still Angle/Shane at KOTR. Angle is heel but let him throw this half-a-wrestler through stuff so everyone can pop for it. 



watched a thingy

Bayley v. Nia Jax v. Mickie James v. Dana Brooke v. Emma v. Sasha Banks, Raw 6/26/17

Gauntlet! Dunno where I was really convinced to watch this but I'm glad I found the rec. Jax actually looked really good finally; I don't remember ever seeing her look like this much of a monster. Bayley and James both try differing strategies in their falls and that took any any repetitiveness those first two falls could have had. Bayley tried to tear Jax down by kicking her in the legs and her sizable, shiny ass, while Mickie thought being more flashy and using speed would work. Who the fuck is Dana Brooke? I dunno she's some blonde person but I actually liked that she got squashed because she thought she could come in a cartwheel her way to victory and that's foolish as fuck. Emma looked like a geek with that 'bad girl' look and I'm not sure if that was the point of the gimmick or not. Her fall was dead nothing and we already had whoever Dana Brooke is to get squashed. 

The Banks fall was the pay-off to the rest in a way and I thought it was pretty awesome in a mini-Mark Henry match sort of way, so obv I'm bound to love it and possibly bound to overrate it. After going straight for Jax, Banks just full on taunts her with a slap to the face and then a 'bring it.' Jax gets pissed and Banks dodges so Jax falls to the outside. Something I don't think Bayley OR James tried, so there's even less room for repetition~! Jax eventually gets fed up and tried to get a count-out victory which is CLEAR sign she is getting worn out after all these mini-matches she's been in. She starts yelling at Banks and even the referee to which was great. WILL YOU DO YOU DAMN JOB!? Banks failing to go anywhere after all those times she bounced off of the ropes while Jax was upright made it very fitting she instead had to get Jax on her backside before hitting those ropes again. Jax's last Samoan drop looked sloppy in the best way possible. Pure exhaustion. Finish hold was sloppy in the best way too and it pretty tense stuff.

The Banks/Jax fall was what made this as good as I thought it was, but I think everyone leading up to it made for some really cool set up. Dug this a LOT and if we could get this Nia Jax every week I would be SO into it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Joe & Roman got damn near 25 minutes tonight. Last few minutes were really hot but I was pretty damn bored for a while. Great strikes by both guys though and the suicide dive was great it but kinda reminded me of that Reigns/Rusev match they did a year or two ago that just went REALLY long for the hell of it. Idk, maybe I was just bored already because the show fucking SUCKED. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I kind of loved that Reigns vs Rusev match that went long in 2016 right before SummerSlam. Of course, it ended up happening there instead of SummerSlam, but some top stuff.



Yeah1993 said:


> Zayn about as tall as I am. :wtf2 Goddamn I ALWAYS forget he isn't like 5'9"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're 6'1 :monkey Compared to me, you're now officially Andre the Giant.

I do it just to say I saw stuff at least once & to know what to actually give a damn to go back and see a second time to know if I really like it. Plus, I still keep the times/records written down and that keeps me watching, even if I think 90% of it is nonsense. 

That's actually a fair assessment to hate the match. Basically does come down to all on Kurt and the fans liking it Plus, how can anyone really a hate a guy who is working 3 matches on one night like the most credible guy in the company & won 2 of those 3? Let alone winning this crazy, violent fight. And I doubt they had the mindset to say "oh he'll be face real soon, so that was our plan."



> watched a thingy
> 
> Bayley v. Nia Jax v. Mickie James v. Dana Brooke v. Emma v. Sasha Banks, Raw 6/26/17
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say you overrated this, b/c I liked it a lot too. WWE calls Nia Jax "dominate" all the time and she RARELY ever gets a chance to look as good as she did in this. She had a great trilogy vs Bayley on NXT, but as far as main roster goes, squashes aside, she's often made to look like a chump. Which really bums me out b/c I swear, pardon Asuka, Nia Jax is the one dame on the roster I actually do like to the point where I'd care to see her matches. (I <3 her theme music & presentation so I truly do get a bit "jazzed up" once she comes out.) And it comes down to the possibility of kicking everybody's ass like she did in the gauntlet. Then it ends on a high note vs Sasha, that despite what was kind of an obvious loss, I was glad Nia finally got to work like a monster heel.

Dead @ the Dana Brooke part & "her sizable, shiny ass".


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatched Joe/Reigns from tonight. Completely misread that one or wasn't paying close enough attention. Joe's control segment is totally awesome. Methodically picking Roman picking apart, trash talking him, punching and slapping him in the face, etc. The cutoff spots were great and the DQ finish fake out was well done. Also a small aspect but loved how much force Roman had countering the kokina into the finish. First great match of 2018 for sure. **** 3/4*

Also I feel like this is worth mentioning to @Yeah1993 but for some reason Goldust & Cedric Alexander were a tag team tonight. Don't ask me why. :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> You're 6'1 :monkey Compared to me, you're now officially Andre the Giant.


Reading this where the smileys are code I thought you called me a 6'1 monkey. :lol

I have similar hair to afro Andre. :bigheadcena



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I do it just to say I saw stuff at least once & to know what to actually give a damn to go back and see a second time to know if I really like it. *Plus, I still keep the times/records written down and that keeps me watching, even if I think 90% of it is nonsense.*


You STILL do that!? :mark: I think last time I brought it up was when you weren't online for a long long time and I wanted to ask. I've thought about keeping track of everything I watch but wrestling is just so overwhelming compared to movies or games. I've decided on just doing a YES list for every year, like I/a bunch of us do in the MOTYC thread in OW. Keeping it to the HOT SHIT. I don't use *actual* MOTYCs though or there'd be like 10 matches on every list. I tend to keep it to stuff I think is, say, "very very good."

re: Nia Jax
Maybe it was you who told me to watch the gauntlet :monkey Would you say Jax has looked like that since? Ahhhhhh what 2018 could bring and will not. Looking forward to Charlotte trying to kill Jax with an ambulance instead.

I should see if Prons wants the ass line. 


Corey said:


> Also I feel like this is worth mentioning to @Yeah1993 but for some reason Goldust & Cedric Alexander were a tag team tonight. Don't ask me why. :lol


They could actually make one of my favourite teams ever if there was a proper run given. :lmao

C'MON WWE nix that 205, bring back Superstars and let this shit run wild.


Is there any word on Platt or somebody opening a 2018 MOTYC thread yet? I should watch Joe/Reigns before I fall behind on day 1. And I just found out ***** Casas had a hair match on January 1st too. :cal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTNEVIwldOw


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^ Adonis (a 6'4" 250 lb man) hits a 450 splash in that hair match. It's pretty impressive.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking forward to watching Joe/Reigns. They do have good chemistry IMO and I've enjoyed their last Raw matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rock N Roll Express vs Jake Roberts/Barbarian (Mid South 06/28/1985)*

Yeah this was a ton of fun. There is a tremendously awesome spot where Jake got caught in the ropes and the Rock N Roll did a hit and run on him while the ref tried to stop them, and Barbarian chased them around.

:done

Yeah, don't worry I giffed it as it was far too awesome not to;











Loved watching Jake in this on the whole. Jake also stooged and bumped here more than remember him doing much before, although I need to watch more of his work. Overall it's a really fun match. Jake stamped on Morton's fingers and was a general sleaze throughout too and Barb was fine but this was much more of a Jake show and match. Barb did the power as he would and allowed Jake to control most of it. Morton was again great in his ectended FIP segment as Jake/Barb slowly worked him down. Jake was great as the scummy heel here again too as he taunted Gibson and once again, crowd went ape for the hot tag to Gibson. The Express were their usual effervescent selves here of course and the match hot a lot of time to stretch and develop.

Yeah, more fun with Mid South.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A Goldust & Cedric team is what they made on the fly w/Enzo not cleared to work? Dammit. That sounds awesome. That C show callback line has soooooo much truth behind it.



Yeah1993 said:


> Reading this where the smileys are code I thought you called me a 6'1 monkey. :lol
> 
> I have similar hair to afro Andre. :bigheadcena
> 
> ...


Now the monkey smiley needs an afro on it. :monkey

(it was me remembering the afro that made the Andre reference to begin w/)

Oh yeah. Silly me for the longest time though quit writing the results down, but only logged the times for the specific shows, so w/the exception of 2017, stuff like half of 2014 - 2016 WWE, NJPW, TNA, ROH, CZW, etc are mostly just times w/me having to remember what is what. So I have to fix that b/c DUH writing out the results is the easiest way for my brain to comparentalize and remember it all. Not that I can't w/o, but is it ever a glorious system that works. I remember random matches & their duration from a RAW circa June of 08, simply b/c of doing this.

I have a "quality" list, too. The stuff that I like, ranging from good - "MOTY" level on it. The gist being whatever I'll say "check this out" makes the cut. I keep that optioned per year. Again, I should have been writing some of these down more, but I specifically make sure to keep up w/it heavily for WWE so I know what to not have to go back and watch b/c that can be painful.



> re: Nia Jax
> Maybe it was you who told me to watch the gauntlet :monkey Would you say Jax has looked like that since? Ahhhhhh what 2018 could bring and will not. Looking forward to Charlotte trying to kill Jax with an ambulance instead.


Honestly, it might have been. As for Jax following, there's a match vs Sasha Banks from RAW 8/14 that I remember liking. That's about it. Hell, she hasn't even had a match on TV since Survivor Series and that was the 19th of November. *sigh*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Random, but i was browsing some Kawada listings and saw this matvh and i was like :shockedpunk This happened lol

*Toshiaki Kawada vs. D-Lo Brown (07/30/2006)*






Thought i'd upload it for anyone else interested in it. :cozy


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Yeah1993 If you're gonna get to watch more recent stuff, I would personally love it if you did reviews of WWE PPV's from 2011 onwards. Kinda like your 2010 ones. I know this sounds like torture for you, but those reviews were hilarious and it would be amazing to just see someone utterly eviscerate the WWE product some more :lol

Hell, just reading that Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler is the opener of Royal Rumble '11's card makes me wish you'd do a review of that :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Ted DiBiase (Mid-South 11/06/1985)*

:done

Seriously, go and watch this shit NOW!!!!

It's an utterly tremendous angle. I just love Flair in this setting and he and DiBiase make for such compelling viewing. Just before the match is due to start, Dick Murdoch confronts Ted and tells him he wants to handle Flair instead.

Ted tells him he's yesterdays' news and out of nowhere Murdoch lands on hell of a punch on DiBiase. Trust me when I say it was like a shot of a gun going off. They both start exchanging punches as Flair just watches with his NWA belt around his waist.

Ted eventually kicks Murdoch out the ring and Flair takes this opportunity to blind kick Ted in the back and also out the ring, giving Murdoch the chance to shove Ted's head straight into the ring post and starts kicking him. DiBiase is busted open heavily now.

Oh Flair is still waiting in the ring with his belt on. He gets on the mic and berates Ted and says he's off home. He walks out the ring as DiBiase is being looked after by the officials.

Back from a break and we get a report of how banged up Ted is, but DiBiase is still determined to have the match with Flair no matter what.

Ted DiBiase gives such a great performance throughout this. Standing up.to Murdoch, selling the attack, still wanting to fight Flair, and going out and giving it his all in the match. His head is obviously bandaged up but he keeps fighting through it all. He's still all bloodied up and it's certainly a sight to see. They spill to the outside and Flair is giving no quarter and showing no mercy to Ted and it's made all the better when DiBiase makes a comeback and starts stomping on Flair. Ted is so fucked up here, bleeding like a stuffed pig, but he's still hanging in there. A truly wonderful babyface performance. He wants that title soooooooo bad.

Love it when he kicked out of a pin attempt and JR shouts "HE KICKED OUT, HE KICKED OUT". Ross is also really great putting all this over too.

DiBiase is fucking perfect here with his selling. He can't go for a cover after doing a big move as he's just too fucked and he doesn't know where the fuck he is. He's dead and exhausted but is still trying to take it to Flair for that damn title. The ref tries to stop it but Ted waives him off, he just wants to fight. Love the part when DiBiase gives Flair a big powerslam, but can't cover him because he's so out of it. He manages to kneelift Flair and puts him in the FIGURE FOUR ~~~!!!!!!

Super reaction to this and Ross is fantastic on commentary. Flair gets the ropes tho and he pushes Ted over the too rope and onto the floor. DiBiase is out of it totally now and can't stand up and is counted out. Dick Murdoch comes back out and immediately starts attacking Ted again and gives him a BRAINBUSTER ON THE CONCRETE :hutz

We come back from a break to see officials tending to DiBiase, who is flat on the floor and can't move.

:done

One of THE great angles/matches. DiBiase is fantastic in all of this and gives one hell of a performance here. Trust me, he's sublime. The angle before and after is tremendous, but the actual match is also great, it tells the perfect story and DiBiase gives one of the great babyface performances.

Ric is great. Ted is great. JR is great. Murdoch is great.

Seriously, go watch this. Once again, God bless Mid South.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Kawada/D'Lo...? :wtf2



ATF said:


> @Yeah1993 If you're gonna get to watch more recent stuff, I would personally love it if you did reviews of WWE PPV's from 2011 onwards. Kinda like your 2010 ones. I know this sounds like torture for you, but those reviews were hilarious and it would be amazing to just see someone utterly eviscerate the WWE product some more :lol
> 
> Hell, just reading that Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler is the opener of Royal Rumble '11's card makes me wish you'd do a review of that :lmao


I think I would rather be attacked by several small piranhas than go through that again. I still have to do Mania 2014 since I never watched that though.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

*Backlash 2000 - The Rock vs Triple H, WWF Championship match*

This might still be my favourite match ever. Overbooked in the best way possible, with everything making sense in terms of the storyline culminating in one of the most satisfying finishes in history.

The whole thing had been building for a couple of years really, with Rock and Triple H at odds all the way up through the midcard into the main event. As 1999 came to an end, Triple H was becoming one of the best heels in the business and Rocky was more over than he'd ever been. Austin was out due to injury, but had been feuding with Triple H before he left and obviously had a big history with The Rock.

Triple H was abusing his new power alongside his McMahon wife. He had retired Mick Foley, former Rock rival turned tag team partner. Rock was royally screwed by Shane at No Way Out and screwed by Vince at Wrestlemania. It looked like Rock would never get a fair shake at the title. Add the fact that Earl Hebner had also become an enemy of the regime and been fired for the fast count in Trips' match vs Jericho, and there's just lots of fun stuff going down!

This brings us to Backlash. Rock had won one more shot at the gold, but the deck was stacked against him as Triple H had Shane, Stephanie and Vince in his corner. So good ol' Linda throws a spanner in the works and puts Austin in Rock's corner. 

Great pre-match babyface promo from Rock which amps everyone up. Massive heat for Vince trolling the crowd by telling them Austin is having transportation difficulties. Massive pop when Rock comes out, and it just builds and builds. Fast counts from Shane, interference from Vince, run-ins from Patterson & Brisco. 

Simple but perfect to hold off on bringing Austin out until the last possible moment, when all hope looked lost. Epic pop for the ages when the glass shatters, and Austin destroys every motherfucker bar Rocky with a steel chair. That brings out Linda, with Hebner by her side. Last ditch effort by Hunter to use the chair turns into a spinebuster which gets the biggest pop ever for a spinebuster... a People's Elbow to finish and Hebner jumping in to count the three and the crowd loses their collective shit for a sustained 5 or 6 minutes. These days, you're lucky if ONE moment gets a big reaction on a show, but the final 45 minutes of Backlash have about 5 ridiculous reactions from a super hyped up crowd.

Austin comes back out, and he toasts The Rock's new championship and it's just the most perfect moment ever that never gets old.

Damn, WWE used to get it so right.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think I would rather be attacked by several small piranhas than go through that again. I still have to do Mania 2014 since I never watched that though.


Well, you watched all of those 2010 shows, so you already know what's like to be attacked by several PPV-sized piranhas; small ones can't be a bigger issue 

Also, since I know that I'm gonna put myself through that show cause fuck it all, does anyone have any idea of how WM 34 is gonna look like? Besides the obvious Lesnar vs. Reigns II, which.... if Lesnar decides to wrestle for real (like he did with AJ), it could be solid, but I doubt that they pull another miracle like they did with 31 again.

I swear to God, if there's another Styles vs. Cena match as I've heard..... FUUUUUUCK. I liked their MITB match, I liked their Rumble match, HATED their SummerSlam match, and I don't really want to see them have another match. Another match that will likely be the exact same thing as the three that preceeded it. And I also beg to the holy Heavens that we don't get Cena vs. Taker. No more Taker, as a matter of fact, just let the man retire.

If anything, it feels like the appropriate time to bring on Styles vs. Nakamura. It would leave the smarks happy, it would be a probable star-making performance for Nak, and it would build a new, credible top star in the WWE. Although, being a WWE match, it would never have a shot in the world at even sniffing the Wrestle Kingdom 10 match. Hell, Nakamura could hardly produce anything of high quality when he was on NXT, which is the one WWE division he actually had a chance to produce something great. So even this doesn't do a whole lot for me.

I've also heard that they've completely ruined Bayley in the Main Roster. Unsurprising. But I would still go for that face Bay vs. heel Sasha. Although it's gonna be Asuka vs. whomever, for sure. Meh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno if I can upstage Jheri after his last comment of "I'd rather....than watch this", but basically give me all the plagues the from the Old Testament than have to endure another Cena vs Styles match.

Kawada vs D-Lo tho. :cozy


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the fuck is this...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948388876804067328


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT'S THE GREATEST MATCH EVER MADE.

:zayn3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

"Sami Zayn has pinned the WWE Champion!" :mark:

Man that was crazy to hear. Match was pretty fun even with the overbooked finish. Somehow I think this handicap match will be turned into a triple threat but who knows. Just keep Shane wayyyy the fuck away from this thing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, the heel turn lead to his first WWE Championship match. I guess that alone sees something. The Rumble seems to be good to Zayn. :mj2 of joy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Corey said:


> What the fuck is this...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948388876804067328


:mark:

Sounds VERY EXCITING.

So, it looks like I'll be watching Wrestle Kingdom 12 LIVE tomorrow at a Pub. Should be interesting - it's the first time I'll be watching NJPW event. 

JERICHO THE GOAT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kenny said:


> :mark:
> 
> Sounds VERY EXCITING.
> 
> ...


Hopefully this is the last image you see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it isn't, then 2018 will already be RIP.

ok not really, but seriously, Gedo don't screw this up. :naito


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How long is the run time for this PPV? I'm seeing it advertised for like 5 hours. May need to get some drinks in me while I'm there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's gonna be 5 hours & some change. Always is. There's a New Japan Rumble as the "Kickoff" match prior to the hype and stuff, which lasts about 30 minutes etc. Then the rest of the show goes from there. Maybe keeping up w/the promotion or hype helps, but it's a 5 hours that doesn't "feel" like 5 hours.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Low Ki vs American Dragon (ROH Round Robin Challenge 03/30/2002)

A wonderful match. Love the pacing of It with the matwork for the first portion and how brutal it is. A lot of the match is on the mat, but it's so well done and compelling that it makes the latter half of the match all the better. Shoot-style.kicks, elbows and strikes throughout and it builds and builds with some great nearfalls. They play off Danielson's earlier match with Daniels as he comes into this with an injured eye and neck. Lots of stiff holds and strikes and both sell very well as they put themselves through some intense shit.

The exhaustion is clear to see in both of them by the end and the finishing stretch of the match is tremendous.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

New Japan has made it's way to my local sports bar here in the UK. Hopefully it's a trend that continues. They show WWE, TNA and some ippvs/dvds that they purchase. Might give NJ a chance.

Edit- just found out they're doing a deal £20 you get a pint, a pizza and a bullet club shirt along with watching the show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corey said:


> What the fuck is this...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948388876804067328


I mean, I imagine a Triple Threat would just lead to awful, contrived and clichéd WWE booking and it would be a glorified spotfest, so at least this is different.

And Sami Zayn getting a WWE Title match against AJ Styles is the stuff dreams are made of. Granted, he shouldn't be heel, but... ehh, at least it's something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> Low Ki vs American Dragon (ROH Round Robin Challenge 03/30/2002)
> 
> A wonderful match. Love the pacing of It with the matwork for the first portion and how brutal it is. A lot of the match is on the mat, but it's so well done and compelling that it makes the latter half of the match all the better. Shoot-style.kicks, elbows and strikes throughout and it builds and builds with some great nearfalls. They play off Danielson's earlier match with Daniels as he comes into this with an injured eye and neck. Lots of stiff holds and strikes and both sell very well as they put themselves through some intense shit.
> 
> The exhaustion is clear to see in both of them by the end and the finishing stretch of the match is tremendous.


Seriously, if you're able to upload this, I'll be _very_ happy & stuff. 

Haven't seen it in years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Be happy :cozy

----------

Low Ki vs American Dragon vs Christopher Daniels (ROH Era of Honor Begins 02/23/2002)

Man, loved this just as much as the singles Ki/Danielson match. There wasn't long periods of someone resting outside the ring and it was very fast paced match. They just went hell for leather with each other and there were plenty of stiff kicks and strikes throughout as you'd expect. No dull moments with some great move combinations and sequences. Just a tremendous, balls to the wall match with non stop action and superb wrestling by all of them. Really enjoyed Daniels in this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stan Hansen vs Curt Hennig (AWA TV 05/31/1986)

Fired up ready to fight Curt Hennig :done

They run an angle first where Jerry Blackwell is being interviewed about Hennig taking his place to face Hansen. All of a sudden, Stan comes bowling into the ring and starts trashmouthing him and attacks him with his championship belt.

Hennig comes running in to make the save and starts giving Hansen some wild punches and a hiptoss. I'm already loving this 'I came here to fight' Hennig. He dropkicks Hansen out the ring and we now get a brawl, with Hansen sending Curt into the ring post. He then turns his attention back to Blackwell and attacks him with a chair this time, before going back to Hennig. Curt just takes it to Stan though and starts punt kicking him right in the head, just like Stan would happily do to anyone himself.

This quickly turns into a balls to the wall match where they both just wail on each other. Hennig is great as the fighting babyface taking it to Hansen and never backing down. He even does a 'Bret Hart' chest bump into the turnbuckle, which he does very well. Hansen we know is just a big fucking monster who takes no prisoners, but he also sells well here too for Hennig.

Curt bodyslams Hansen into the ring and hits a splash off the turnbuckle but can only get a 2 count. Stan quickly takes over now and dumps Curt on some chairs on the outside. Curt's dazed but starts fighting back with some punches before Stan headbutts Curt in the........gonads. 

Hansen remains in control as he hits a piledriver but he's too close to the ropes for a pin. Hennig soon turns it around again and gets a great looking monkey flip on Hansen. He goes for a crossbody but only gets 2 and the time limit expires.

Damn shame.

A really good high action, fast paced match with great performance from Hansen and Hennig. Hansen gave Hennig a lot and sold well when he had to and Hennig was always fighting back and taking it to Hansen and never bscking down and it made Hennig look like a big babyface star. Really great TV match and I loved Curt as more of a fighting underdog who's more than willing to bring the fight and punch his way to victory and not rely on his obvious technical skills all the time. He did what he had to do and I loved the fire he bought here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Being happy :mark:

also omg at this stuff:



> They run an angle first where Jerry Blackwell is being interviewed about Hennig taking his place to face Hansen. All of a sudden, Stan comes bowling into the ring and starts trashmouthing him and attacks him with his championship belt.


I haven't even seen this and I'm like ooohh YES


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Luckily it's on YT already for you lucky people


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:monkey

Jerry Blackwell, the mountain from stone mountain aka one super cool FATTY, is getting interviewed atm :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rick Martel vs Jerry Lawler (Memphis10/12/1985) (AWA Championship)

Soon as I saw this listed I had to watch it and of course I'm glad I did.

Martel continues to be fucking great. He's pissed off right from the start here and can't wait to get his hands on Lawler. Usually He comes across as a great babyface, but in this he's just had enough and wants to fight and it makes for a nice dynamic with Lawler. He's also kind of the defecto heel here as the crowd are pro Lawler.

Lawler rolls up Martel right from the start and gets a 2 count and Rick is like "What the fuck??". He tries again with differene pin combinations and when Martel gives Lawler a clean break when Lawler punches him right in the mouth and goes for the pin. Lawler wants that title and Martel is a man on a mission to keep it, as he's so agitated seemingly on the edge.

This is already tremendous stuff. They start loading on each other with punches, which of course Lawler wins and Rick bails to the outside. Martel is certainly the heel here and Lawler is in control as Martel is getting more frustrated.

Martel works the match centred around attacking Lawler's leg, which the announcers do note that he had a injury that caused Jerry to miss most of 1980. Lawler sells all this so well too as Martel puts on a variety of stomps, strikes, kicks and a figure-4. Just wonderful focused work by Martel.

Lawler eventually makes a fired up comeback, but he has to do it on one leg. He's punching the shit out of Martel, but they're not as direct as usual as he's operating one one leg. He finally works through the pain and THE STRAPS ARE DOWN ~~~~!!!! Lawler starts pounding on Martel with punches as Rick sells so well and tries to back off, but Jerry won't let him go anywhere. Lawler is relentless here and the crowd are hot and fully behind him.

Lawler goes for a running fist, but runs into the ref. Martel tries a spinning toehold, but only suvceeds in grabbing Jerry's boot, whicjh he clocks Jerry with. Lawler kicks out. Now he has the boot and clocks the champ. The ref sees that and DQs Lawler.

Booooooooooooo!!!!!

Again, damn shame about a DQ finish as this was a fucking great match. Martel's performance here is excellent. Great character work as a pissed off SOB who's on the edge throughout and who just wants to get in there, kick some was and go home. It's great to see Martel as a heel in such this way. He really did have all the tools for both a super babyface and as a super heel. Here he judt decimated Lawler's leg and wouldn't let up. Lawler was great at his selling and his eventual fiery comeback.

A fucking tremendous match and performance by both, esp Martel.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Fabulous Ones vs Moondogs (Memphis 05/02/1983 Stretcher Match)*

I actually watched the match from June the other day, totally missing this one out;



> Fabulous Ones vs Moondogs (Memphis 06/13/1983)
> 
> :done Now this is how you do a sub 10 minute brawl. Tables, chairs, ring bells everything but the kitchen sink ended up in the ring. The match actually got thrown out 2 minutes 39 seconds in because the Moondogs kept belting Calhoun, but it doesn't stop them. They keep brawling for another 8 minutes or so and it it's tremendous. They judt beat the shit out each other with everything. Calhoun in particular gets a beating here. Just a surreal sight seeing the carnage here and the crowd were super hot.
> 
> This was ECW in 1983 and I fucking loved it. People need to watch this shit. Not sure if it's online, but I could up it if anyone wants it.


But 

HOLY FUCK THIS WAS EVEN BETTER!!!

:done x100000000000000

It's seriously one of the best brawls I've ever seen. They just beat the shit out of each other at such a pace that it's just a straight up tag fight all the way through.

Forget wrestling, it's an all out war, with the Fabulous ones trying to protect each other and fight their way through it by any means necessary. Keirn/Lane are fantastic from the start going straight for the moondogs with punches and a great double team stomp off the ropes.

Lane has a chain, but it goes flying and gets smashed in the head.and is busted open. He's getting the shit beat out of him by the dogs, who take it in turns decimating him and keeping Keirn at bay. It spills over to the outside and the fabs are trying to survive the onslaught by the dogs, but they keep fighting back. Lane is bleeding profusely and is just about hanging in there. The dogs continue to tirture the poor Stan Lane, who manages to get his bearings and is desperately trying to tag keirn, who he eventually does and the crowd go ape as he starts wailing on the dogs. He bits and claws them and one of them is now busted open.

Just love the selling by both here too, really adds to the drama and chaos of the while thing.

Keirn's head gets trapped in the ropes :jones The way Keirn sells it is fantastic and veeeeery scary at the same time. It's certainly a sight to see as he's flailing around in the ropes, literally being hanged here and he's just stuck. The dogs grab him and start dragging and choking him and Lane tells the ref to ring the bell.

Lane gets a chair and is trying to fight off both dogs whilst also trying to free his mate, who is helpless.

He eventually frees him and the ref calls the match as Keirn couldn't continue. So the moondogs get the win.

One of the greatest fights of all time. JUST GO AND WATCH THIS SHIT NOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!

Lane is tremendous as the FIP and both teams sell well. The action is non stop and the drama is through the roof. They just beat each other up for the whole match and it's wonderful. The finish was brutal for Keirn but it was one hell of a finish and visual to end it on. Perfectly encapsulated the match and the sheer violence of it all. Lane is great at the end too trying to both look after his partner but also has to fight both dogs off somehow.

They put Keirn on the stretcher, but Moondogs topple the stretcher and Lane is pissed and tries to see them off.

Fuck what matches these are :done


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*AJ Styles vs Bryan Danielson vs Samoa Joe (09/18/2004 IWA Mid-South Ted Petty Invitational 2004)*

Three way elimination match here rather than a standard triple threat. I liked this the last time I watched it and I did again here. Another really good, fast paced match with all getting their shine and they played off each other well. Joe is super aggressive with his strikes and kicks and we soon get them on the outside after a few minutes of feeling out process in the ring. Some nice transitions too as all three are pretty much in there together throughout and the match retains its pace as there's really not much down time.

We eventually end up with Joe/AJ as the final two and we get a good finishing stretch between them. Enjoyable match. Maybe a little spotty as it was fast paced with everyone getting their shit in, but there's always a chance of that with these matches, but it's still a fun match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Barry Windham & Arn Anderson vs Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner (WCW Saturday Night 02/02/91)

Yes this was a very enjoyable tag match. Windham/Anderson make the perfect tag team and Brad Armstrong has a very good FIP segment here. In fact he's was overall fine in the match and he does a great sunset flip on Arn. Arn/Barry make a great team, both on offense and when they're selling for the faces too. You see a match like this and it reminds you how tremendous Arn could be.

I always love how he bumps and sells but also also his offense. Just great punches thrown and he keeps the heat segment interesting and keeps the match flowing. It's so fun watching Arn/Barry. Armstrong looked great too taking the punches and getting the hot tag to Horner.

But we get a shit finish when Doom do a run in. Yeah it's an annoying negative on an otherwise excellent tag match. Recommended.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Grabbed these videos off someone as i have wanted to check this feud out:

1984.03.31 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - Spectrum
1984.05.05 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - Spectrum
1984.06.16 - Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine- WWF IC Championship - MSG
1984.08.25 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - MSG
1984.09.24 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - Toronto
1984.10.20 - Tito Santana injury report - Championship Wrestling
1984.10.22 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - MSG
1984.11.26 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - MSG
1985.01.21 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - WWF IC Championship - MSG
1985.03.18 - Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana - Lumberjack Match for the IC Championship - MSG
1985.04.21 - Ricky Steamboat Tito Santana vs Greg Valentine Brutus Beefcake - Toronto
1985.04.27 - Tito Santana _ David Sammartino vs. Greg Valentine _ Brutus Beefcake - Spectrum
1985.07.06 - Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - Steel Cage Match for the WWF IC Championship
1988.12.17 - Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine - LA Sports Arena

Anyone want a link too, let me know as i have upped it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rick Martel vs Jumbo Tsuruta (AWA 09/29/1985)*

HOLY FUCKING FUCK BALLS ~~~~!!!!! Where has this blockbuster come from????!!!

Rick fucking Martel keep a getting better and better everytime I watch him in non WWF shit.

This match is a full on, balls to the wall, non stop, bomb throwing extravaganza :done I swear this match would look great if it was showcased today let alone over 30 years ago. That's not a knock at all on it, it's just a tremendous match where they throw everything at each other. It's joined in progress so I don't know how much is cut from the start, but it doesn't detract from the enjoyment much.

Move after move and it's not a spotfest in any way either because each move means something and the transitions come at such a pace, it's incredible to see. The sight of Jumbo hoisting Martel to hit a piledriver, but takes the time revolve around so that every section of the crowd can see what he is about to do was :done

Even with all the fast paced bomb throwing, Martel still does a bang up job at his selling, as he always does. He's seriously one of the best at that art. 

They packed a so much action in this match and hardly any down time at all. For those who love action and a ton of bombs in their wrestling matches, from two elite guys who make it look and feel special; Watch this shit.

Seriously, this is another Martel classic and you all owe it to yourselves to go and watch it. It's on YT too for you :cudi

Oh Martel; Where have you been all my life.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Dream Team (Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake) vs Tito Santana & Ricky Steamboat (WWF, MLG 4/21/1985)*

1. Why havn't I watched this before?!
2. I actually enjoyed a Brutus Beefcake match 

This was a super fun tag team match. Hot crowd and it's in the midst of the Steamer/Valentine feud, so we get thst extra heated element in the match. Ricky/Tito play the perfect babyface team as you'd expect and the dream team do a great job getting the heat and working over them both. Even Brutus does a fine job here too, even with his limited style, he and Valentine kept the quick tags as they both took turns in keeping steamboat down, who was the main FIP.

Hot tag to Tito got the crowd fired up and both he and Steamboat were super fired up throughout and it kept the match at a constant pace. It was a great mix of styles between the teams as Ricky/Tito were the speedy babyfaces and the dream team relying on the ground and pound and using power to wear them down. It all built up nicely for a satisfying finish with the figure four.

Steamboat and Santana put on a babyface masterclass here and the crowd lapped it all up. The crowd bring molten certainly made the match even more enjoyable than it already is. The Dream Team wrestled a very smart match themselves to ensure constant heat throughout the match and in allowing the babyfaces to time their hot tags perfectly. Beefcake actually wrestled ok here and was not as shit as expected.

The dream team were great at their double teaming and Steamer as usual put in another one if his joy to watch babyface performances.

Yeah, this was an excellent tag match and fully recommended for those who havnt seen it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oooooh at the Valentine vs Santana stuff. I love their matches. They had a steel cage match? :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vignette (WCWSN 01.26.1991)*






:done

HOLY FUCK!!!!!! Where did this shit come from. This is like one of those NWO promos from '96............but in '91 and involving Arn/Barry.

Had to upload it on YT. Trust me: WATCH IT

:done


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Jake Roberts (Mid-South 11/24/1985)*

Yeah now this is something. Flair going up against Jake.

Jake is a substitute for Butch Reed after he was injured by a bounty put on his head by Flair.

Flair is using psych out tactics right from the start by mocking Roberts, which results in a shoving match and then all of a sudden; DDT! 

But the bell has not sounded. It was fucking awesome seeing Jake hit Flair with it right from the start and Flair sold it like he's just been shot. Perfect opening. Flair is dead and Jake is going mad at the ref as he wants to make a pin but he can't as the match hasn't officially started yet lol.

Match is already great and the bell has yet to sound :done

Flair is just grand at his selling here, as he's still struggling to get up from the DDT. He eventually draws heat by rolling out the ring before getting back to his feet. He tells the ref he's outta there and walks off. Roberts is hopping mad in the ring and just wants Flair.

He starts goading Flair to get back and the bell does finally sound as Flair gingerly makes his way back to the ring. He waits until the count of 9 to roll back in with his championship belt still in his hands.

Flair is golden. :flair3

They finally lock up and Jake just nails Flair with some great right and left handers and a big back body drop. Flair takes Jake down by his leg and won't let go. He lets loose and back a off as Jake is more than ready.

Flair takes him down again and gets his big heat segment until his kneedrop gets caught, leading to a figure four by Jake.

Love the crowd continually shouting for the DDT.

Jake hits Flair with some more big right handers and Flair does his famous Flair flop to the mat. Jake as the avenging babyface is such a pleasant surprise here.

Jake gets a big running kneelift, but misses on the second one, and takes a great bump. Flair reverses an inside cradle for the win.

Butch Reed in a neck brace.is out and is pissed at he'll and going for Ric. Flair goes for the piledriver, but it's reversed and.Flair bails.

Excellent match. Loved the beginning with the quick DDT before they settled into an actual match. Jake was also a great babyface in this and Flair was just as good here with the crazy selling and offense. Gotta watch more Jake, esp as the babyface he was here. Timed his comebacks well, got the crowd fully he behind him and I loved his punches. He and Flair meshed together superbly and the stuff before the bell even rang is worth the watch alone.

Super match.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Gonna dust off my 2003 Boxset I think. Need to give the Attitude Era a break, as its seriously making me hate an era I loved.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watch Vengeance.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> Watch Vengeance.


Starting from the very beginning so I can laugh at the botch machine Scott Steiner.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh fuck I forgot about those. Although I don't remember watching their NWO rematch. Not that I really want to though.

Suplex city :cozy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their NWO rematch is just... urgh .



Spoiler: my ramble for it



*Triple H Vs Scott Steiner - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh god it just gets worse. And there is still the god awful main event to come :|. And Austin/Bischoff too :|.

Their RR match was SO FUCKING BAD... they booked it again a month later. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM?!?!

*3 days later*

Ok I suppose I should watch this match now .

:lmao the fans are booing Steiner and cheering HHH :lmao. Absolutely NOT what this match needed :lmao. Was gonna be awful on its own, but a crowd not reacting the way they would be expected to = match fucked up .

I like how HHH's leg is taped up, giving Steiner an area to focus on. It was like they watched their RR match back (I fucking hope they did, fans were tortured by it so they should too) and realised that Steiner couldn't do anything beyond SUPLEXES, so creating a leg injury for him to attack meant he had something else to do .

:lmao the MOMENT I finished writing that last sentence... Steiner hit a suplex :lmao.

Scotty applies a Figure Four, but it just doesn't look right when he does it... so Flair pokes his eyes behind the referee's back to prevent such a thing from continuing. I guess if he did that to Steiner for making the Figure Four look bad, he should probably torture and eventually kill The Miz for what he did to the hold...

:lmao the fans who moments ago were cheering HHH are now chanting BORING because HHH is in control :lmao.

:lmao Steiner builds momentum and what does he do? Leg work again? Nah. SUPLEXES!!!

:lmao Steiner just fucking RUNS into HHH'd boot and I'm 99.9% certain he got KNOCKED OUT. HHH goes for a cover and tries to use the ropes, ref catches him and they argue and shove each other for about a minute while Steiner recovers .

MOAR SUPLEXES :lmao.

Orton and Batista show up and get destroyed.

:mark: at Orton being thrown over the ropes and just fucking DIVING onto Batista. Best thing about this match so far.

WHC to the face of Steiner... he kicks out, fans boo :lmao.

PEDIGREE. Yes! It's fucking OVER.

Awful. Awful. Awful. Awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

2003 was strange. They were bringing in loads of folks from years gone by in the vain hope of getting some of the fans back. Steiner, Goldberg, Sable, Piper. None did anything in the long run (or short term come to think of it). Then you had that one legged dickhead Zach Gowen hopping around.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

We had Lesnar/Gowen though :brock4


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Brock said:


> We had Lesnar/Gowen though :brock4


Wasn't that on Smackdown though? I can only recall him facing Vince on PPV. Probably had another I forgot about, its easy to do when someone is only around for a cup of coffee.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget they signed THE WRONG ONE LEGGED MAN before Gowen :lmao.

I like 03 for SD. Raw makes me wanna puke.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

zrc said:


> Wasn't that on Smackdown though? I can only recall him facing Vince on PPV. Probably had another I forgot about, its easy to do when someone is only around for a cup of coffee.


Yea on SD

You just mentioned 2003 in general in your above post so I mentioned that


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Don't forget they signed THE WRONG ONE LEGGED MAN before Gowen :lmao.
> 
> I like 03 for SD. Raw makes me wanna puke.


Only watched Raw for Kane, the women & 3 Minute Warning.


Brock said:


> Yea on SD
> 
> You just mentioned 2003 in general in your above post so I mentioned that


Indeed I did. Touché.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of 2003; not sure if I ever got around to watching the Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri Vs Charlie Hass & Shelton Benjamin ladder match from Judgment Day 2003 that I don't remember much from.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its a fun ladder match. Gave it ***1/4. Eddie and Tajiri should have teamed the entire time instead of Eddie and chabo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agree w/Cal there. It's p. fun, but the Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT matches following the Ladder are excellent.

Triple H vs Steiner from Rumble & NWO are two prizes within the world of Wrestlecrap. Flair vs Hebner happens within the match at the Rumble, too. Such a hilarious trainwreck.

Off the top of my head, I actually don't have the anger towards RAW in 2003 like some people do. I mean it has its bad points for sure, but eh. My memory is was that I generally enjoyed watching WWE during the bulk of that year. I'd have to slam through again to know this for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Brusier Brody vs Terry Funk (AJPW 12/07/1982)*

Terry fucking Funk.

:done

My God his selling his match is off the charts great as is a performance to behold. I havnt really watched much of Brody, but he's just killing Funk in the first half of the match and Funk is just tremendous working from underneath and trying to survive the sheer onslaught. Brody pounds on him, throws him around and just brutalizes poor Terry.

Brody is kicking the shit out of Funk, who ends up being busted open and bleeding like a stuck pig. I can't underestimate enough how great Funk is at his selling here. Brody nails him with a chair and judt won't let up. He keeps bouncing off the ropes and kicking Funk right in the head.

Funk doesn't know what him or where the fuck he is. His ear is bleeding heavily and Brody is still kicking him to death. This has been a complete mauling by Brody and Funk's selling and even his bump off a simple dropkick is great.

Brody hits a fantastic piledriver for two count. Funk starts swinging while holding his ear. Funk eventually manages to make a come back by low blowing Brody. He takes over by grabbing Brody's head and rams his head into the post, breaks a table over his back and starts punching him. All this of course busts Brody wide open too.

Crowd is going crazy at this point, then Stan Hansen turns up. He just kinda observes at first, tjen eventually he steps in and then Dory shows up for kicks. Funk starts hurling chairs in the ring like a madman :done 

Brody getting Dory to stop punching him by pulling his t-shirt over his head and Dory continuing to swing wildly even though he can't see fuck all :lmao Wonderful

Man I enjoyed this. Funk put on an incredible selling display here and his performance in this match would rank as one of his best in that regard. His selling and bumping were so spot on and made Brody look like even more of a fucking monster. His comeback was great and even though it was a cluster ending, it was so entertaining it didn't matter. Maybe Brody could have sold better in the match though, he had his moments, but another bump or two would have made it better. But this was all about the funker.

It's one hell of a sight seeing Funk bleeding so much from his ear here, esp when he's making his come back. His whole left side of his face is crimson red and he's literally a bloody mess.

Yeah, Terry fucking Funk :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns vs Joe on RAW this week was meh. Like they decided to work all long and stuff, Joe beating up the hurt arm was cool, and Reigns did sell it well for a good bit, but my gosh did crap WWE booking rear its ugly head to take me out by the time the finishing run came around. Ref gets all in Reigns' face numerous times b/c of the DQ stip. So why would the ref care? If Reigns wants to hit Joe w/the steps, then he screws himself and that's that. But he basically talks him out of it so Joe then talks w/the ref about that for a contrived "lets jump off the steps to hit a Superman Punch" spot. D'oh. Then Reigns accidentally bumps the ref. It's clear that it was an accident. But here's that ol OH NO HE MIGHT DQ ME NOW spot. D'oh x2. Joe gets a nearfall. Argues w/the ref. It appears the ref might DQ him now. D'oh x3. Reigns' arm being hurt means nothing by this point. D'oh x4. Reigns hits a spear and wins. The arm doesn't matter. The gimmick ended up getting too much in the way instead of working in concert w/the bulk of the match, & I felt like the ref stuck out as much as the other two. Yeah, no thanks.

The topper of the week was that embarrassing dogshit w/the Tag Championship on Smackdown. But I'm too irritated to even attempt to explain that junk. Sami Zayn pinned Styles clean though. Ahhh. Now that works. (even if the end to Smackdown - along w/the rest of it - was total pond scum.) The Zayn vs Styles match had some good moments to it. Too much Shane/Danielson bs took away from it, but that was expected. Styles is Styles & Zayn's facials are crazy good. Like dude got over w/a mask, but he's this complete this whole time anyways good. He's selling me on the heel stuff the more he can actually get to showcase it. Even if it does feel like a step in the wrong direction. As he's getting a WWE Championship match, I know. But I'm thinking long term.

Also: I liked Cesaro vs Jason Jordan & Bray's extended squash vs Apollo Crews b/c it reminded me of an 80's/90's TV match. So it wasn't a total wash. 2018 quality list is off and running.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kamala vs. The Invader (Puerto Rico 02/22/1986)*

I'm only used to Kamala in the WWF but watched this random match from Puerto Rico. Starts off with them just nailing each other with punches until Invader quickly gets worn down by chop after chop after chop to the head by Kamala.

Kamala also bites the forehead whilst Invader is stick on the ropes and he's now busted open. The mstch is only like a minute or so gone :lol Kamala just continues to pound on him with more chops and now big headbutts. Invader tries to fight back but Kamala just won't let him and delivers another headbutt that knocks Invader flat on the mat.

Kamala then looks like he's going to do a big splash, but instead delivers another headbutt. He shows zero mercy here as he continues to club poor Invaders' head in. Invader is bleeding like the proverbial but Kamala is going for the punch record here as he won't stop hitting him.

Invader is still on the mat as Kamala briefly backs away......before going straight back with more chops to his head. Blood is gushing down Invader here but Kamala carries on chopping. Invader attempts a comeback now. He's a bloody mess but is fighting back with what little strength he's got left.

Kamala though just overpowers him with more clubs to the head and he's back down on the mat. The ref asks Invader if he wants to stop the match, but Invader says no.....so Kamala continues to pound on his just about in one piece head.

Just finish the poor guy.

Nope. Kamala clubs him some more and starts biting his head again. Yup, more chops and Kamala actually licks Invaders' blood off his hands just to rub it fucking in. Invader is up again but is soon back down by the continuous chops by Kamala.

He's a damn mess with all the blood he's losing and I doubt he knows where he is. It's all running on instinct as he still has a go at coming back with a few punches, but he's too out of it to properly hurt Kamala. Kamala goes back to chop after chop before finally the ref stops the match.

Fuck. Talk about a chopping squash. It was though a fun brutal beat down. Invader hot chopped to death and still attempted to try and fight back, made you feel for the guy big time as he was bleeding like crazy by the end. They do a close up shot if his face and it's a full on crimson red mask.

All in under 10 minutes and it was a pretty fucking great squash. Not sure if its online, but I could put it up if there's interest.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

No way Out 03 was soooo bad. At least a couple months later Steiner was relegated to facing Rico on Heat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't entirely Steiner's fault. He came into WWE still injured with his ankle, then got stuck with HHH straight away. Injury + working HHH + being a big WCW name = no chance in hell .


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

The fact he's the drizzling shits played its part too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zrc said:


> The fact he's the drizzling shits played its part too.


You have made a powerful enemy on this day... :cal3


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> You have made a powerful enemy on this day... :cal3


:lmao I can't name one match of his I liked after he plied himself with jungle juice.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zrc said:


> No way Out 03 was soooo bad. At least a couple months later Steiner was relegated to facing Rico on Heat.


The show or just the Steiner match itself? Cause I remember the first half of the PPV having some really solid matches.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Corey said:


> The show or just the Steiner match itself? Cause I remember the first half of the PPV having some really solid matches.


Sure there were some decent matches, but the ones that mattered dragged the whole show down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock vs Hogan & Trips vs Steiner flopped, but I (generally) enjoy the rest. That's a solid PPV in my eyes. Taker vs Show :mark:


@Yeah1993 As I hilariously made my way through Halloween Havoc 1999 and getting so much Russo shenanigans in my face, I'm pleased to say I too love Goldberg vs Sid. Holy cow, that totally works. I guess Russo/Oklahoma immediately wanted to make Sid into a babyface in no time, b/c this was the ideal way to do so, and keep Goldberg as a god damn monster. (Sid was all they talked up post match as he still wasn't pinned or submitted, nor did he opt for the stoppage. Real good job, there.) That scenario "what if Bill Goldberg actually got pissed off enough to where he'd say fuck the spear, fuck the jackhammer, I'm just gonna beat you to a bloody pulp instead" actually took place. And good lord was it a threatening sight.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh my god how did I forget Rock and Hogan had a rematch? :lmao 

HHH/Steiner. Legendary. Then comes HHH/Booker at Mania.

Wrestlemania XIX:

3 F-5s to pin Angle
3 Rock Bottoms to pin Austin
3 Leg Drops to pin McMahon
1 sloppy Pedigree and 15 seconds of lying on the floor + only using one arm for the pin, to pin Booker T




Sid/Goldberg love. :mark: I knew you'd know it to be true.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hilarious. It really does seal the deal why that changed finish for Booker vs Trips sucks. Even if I've actually always liked the match. (do I still though? I feel like I do.) The way Austin sells the Rock Bottom. My gosh, so amazing. Dude looks as if taking the move was like getting stabbed in the back 3 times.

Now I'm curious for Goldberg vs Sid II at Mayhem. I know its only 5 minutes, but this is Goldberg, so 5 minutes is all he needs. Literally have no opinion on this atm.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

zrc said:


> :lmao I can't name one match of his I liked after he plied himself with jungle juice.


watch this





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Hilarious. It really does seal the deal why that changed finish for Booker vs Trips sucks. Even if I've actually always liked the match. (do I still though? I feel like I do.) The way Austin sells the Rock Bottom. My gosh, so amazing. Dude looks as if taking the move was like getting stabbed in the back 3 times.
> 
> Now I'm curious for Goldberg vs Sid II at Mayhem. I know its only 5 minutes, but this is Goldberg, so 5 minutes is all he needs. Literally have no opinion on this atm.


That Austin/Rock match :banderas. Great way for the GOAT (fuck you RLStern) to go out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny posting Goldberg vs Steiner :mark:

Only JR & Austin knowing that it was his last match too. :mj2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Nobuhiko Takada vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW Battle Formation 04/29/96)*

:banderas

The crowd. The heat. The atmosphere. The spectacle.

Man, this was fucking great. From the first minute the match just feels huge. Its only like 12 or so minutes but what a heated match. The crowd were hot, esp for the big moves near the end and the superb finish. The match built really well over those 12 minutes too and there was some great counters. For such a short match, it was great to see them try and build as it went on before the finishing stretch. Superb brainbuster and the crowd popped big time for it.

Takada did land some great looking kicks in this, including one right to Hash's temple and of course Hash dished it out just as good as he took it with sone stiff palm strikes and kicks of his own.

Very nice matwork, stiff strikes and a great story all packed into the limited time and as I said, a tremendously heated crowd. Great match.

Edit; THAT LEG SWEEP COUNTER BY HASH :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shinya Hashimoto vs Kazuo Yamazaki (NJPW G-1 Climax 08/02/98)*

Holy fuck another Hash special. They beat the shit out of each other and it's glorious.

Yamazaki targeting the leg of Has as he knew he couldn't beat him in a straight fight. The kicks were brutal and Hash's selling was excellent and they crafted a very nice story. Early on after Yama had been working on his legs, Hash kicked Yama but winced when he did as it was with that leg. Great selling.

Yama had a sound game plan and he was sticking to it, but Hash kept coming back with his own big kicks and chops, whilst also continuing to perfectly sell his leg at every turn. Yama did a tremendous flying crossbody over the top rope on Hash as he upped the offense before going immediately back to the leg on the outside of the ring.

Hash ended up finishing Yama with his brutal brainbuster :mark:

Another Hash classic but I'm not selling Yama short here either, as he put in an excellent performance too. He helped tell a fine story with going after Hash and having a plan to bring him down, but he was also good at his selling too when Hash was kicking the shit out of him. He made the match look like a struggle and kept that shine to perfectly time his comebacks. But Hash put in one hell of a selling performance here, esp when Yama has him in a leg lock submission, you could have easily saw him tap.

Great stuff here. Fuck, Hash is so fun to watch chop and kick someone into oblivion.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Thoughts on Rey/Eddie from March 18th, 2004 Smackdown?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Japanese Elvis is always a good time. The rare match vs Liger :mark: Maybe I like it for the novelty alone, as its no Liger vs Muta, but still a good time.

Trying to think if a match exists where the crowd wasn't MOLTEN for Hashimoto in a singles/big match capacity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Liger/Muta :mark: Yeah I'm watching that again soon after your reminder. Plus the GOAT Liger selling match with Sano.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cleavage said:


> Thoughts on Rey/Eddie from March 18th, 2004 Smackdown?


The WWE Championship match. Forgot about this. Seeing as I have no reference, this needs to be seen again. Has this adds no real input for you, but inspired me to watch this later. 



Brock said:


> Liger/Muta :mark: Yeah I'm watching that again soon after your reminder. Plus the GOAT Liger selling match with Sano.


It doesn't get any better. :mark: Kishin Liger rises :mark:

I really need a Liger comp. There are so many out there, but I'm greedy and even want all of his latter stuff from this decade. He _still_ rules.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The WWE Championship match. Forgot about this. Seeing as I have no reference, this needs to be seen again. Has this adds no real input for you, but inspired me to watch this later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I've got one thst covers up until 1996



Spoiler: Listings



Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 1)

1. Jushin Liger vs Kuniaki Kobayashi (24/4/1989)
2. Jushin Liger vs Shiro Koshinaka (22/5/1989)
3. Jushin Liger vs Hiroshi Hase (25/5/1989)
4. Jushin Liger vs Beef Wellington (16/6/1989)
5. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (12/7/1989)
6. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (13/7/1989)
7. Jushin Liger vs Akira Nogami (28/7/1989)
8. Jushin Liger vs Kantaro Hoshino (5/8/1989)
9. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs Kantaro Hoshino & Naoki Sano (8/8/1989)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 2)

1. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (WPW, 10/8/1989)
2. Jushin Liger, Riki Choshu & Kengo Kimura vs Bam Bam Bigelow, Owen Hart & Pat Tanaka (31/8/1989)
3. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (20/9/1989, JIP)
4. Jushin Liger, Riki Choshu & Masahiro Chono vs Big Van Vader, Tony St. Clair & Tom Pritchard (1/11/1989)
5. Jushin Liger & Masa Chono vs Shinya Hashimoto & Naoki Sano (6/1/1990)
6. Jushin Liger vs Akira Nogami (25/1/1990)
7. Jushin Liger vs Owen Hart (30/1/1990)
8. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (31/1/1990)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 3)

1. Jushin Liger & Hiroshi Hase vs Hiro Saito & Norio Honaga (15/3/1990)
2. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (19/3/1990)
3. Jushin Liger vs Shiro Koshinaka (5/5/1990)
4. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (19/8/1990)
5. Jushin Liger & Takayuki Iizuka vs Hiro Saito & Pegasus Kid (7/9/1990)
6. Jushin Liger vs Villano V (30/9/1990)
7. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (1/11/1990)
8. Jushin Liger & Osamu Matsuda vs Keiji Mutoh & Masahiro Chono (7/11/1990)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 4)

1. Jushin Liger, Kantaro Hoshino & Takayuki Iizuka vs Tatsutoshi Goto, Hiro Saito & Norio Honaga (7/12/1990)
2. Jushin Liger vs ***** Casas (26/12/1990, JIP)
3. Jushin Liger vs David Finlay (6/2/1991)
4. Jushin Liger & Hiroshi Hase vs David Finlay & Franz Schumann (14/2/1991)
5. Jushin Liger & Shiro Koshinaka vs Kantaro Hoshino & Kuniaki Kobayashi (6/3/1991)
6. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (14/3/1991)
7. Jushin Liger vs Akira Nogami (21/3/1991)
8. Jushin Liger vs David Finlay (15/4/1991)
9. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (17/4/1991)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 5)

1. Jushin Liger vs ***** Casas (19/4/1991)
2. Jushin Liger vs Owen Hart (28/4/1991)
3. Jushin Liger vs ***** Casas (30/4/1991)
4. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (30/4/1991)
5. Jushin Liger vs Hiroshi Hase (6/5/1991)
6. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (31/5/1991)
7. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (12/6/1991)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 6)

1. Jushin Liger & Shiro Koshinaka vs Kengo Kimura & Kuniaki Kobayashi (20/6/1991)
2. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (4/7/1991)
3. Jushin Liger & Shiro Koshinaka vs Akira Nogami & Kuniaki Kobayashi (7/8/1991)
4. Jushin Liger vs Akira Nogami (9/8/1991)
5. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (11/8/1991)
6. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs Hiro Saito & Norio Honaga (25/8/1991)
7. Jushin Liger vs Brad Armstrong (10/9/1991)
8. Jushin Liger & Oz vs Scott Norton & Hiro Saito (17/10/1991)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 7)

1. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs Hiro Saito & Norio Honaga (11/11/1991)
2. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs ***** Casas & El Catana (5/12/1991)
3. Jushin Liger vs Tatsumi Fujinami (11/12/1991)
4. Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman (WCW Magazine) (WCWSN, 14/12/1991)
5. Jushin Liger vs ***** Casas (16/12/1991)
6. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (WCWSN, 4/1/1992, JIP)
7. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (27/12/1991, Meadowlands, handheld)
8. Jushin Liger & Bill Kazmeier vs DDP & Mike Graham (Starrcade, 29/12/1991)
9. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (8/2/1992)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 8)

1. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (10/2/1992)
2. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs Flying Scorpio & Pegasus Kid (12/2/1992)
3. Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman Feature (WCWSN, 29/2/1992)
4. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (WCW SuperBrawl II, 29/2/1992)
5. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (16/4/1992)
6. Jushin Liger vs Eddie Guerrero (19/4/1992)
7. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (21/4/1992)
8. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (30/4/1992)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 9)

1. Jushin Liger & Pegasus Kid vs ***** Casas & El Samurai (1/5/1992)
2. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (17/5/1992)
3. Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask vs El Samurai & Pegasus Kid (2/6/1992)
4. Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman vs Chris Benoit & Beef Wellington (Clash, 16/6/1992)
5. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (26/6/1992)
6. Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman vs Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff (GAB, 12/7/1992)
7. Jushin Liger vs Brad Armstrong (WCWSN, 18/7/1992)
8. Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (12/8/1992)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 10)

1. Jushin Liger, Kantaro Hoshino & Koji Kanemoto vs Tatsutoshi Goto, Hiro Saito & Norio Honaga (15/8/1992)
2. Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (16/8/1992)
3. Jushin Liger & Hiroyoshi Yamamoto vs El Samurai & Koji Kanemoto (23/9/1992)
4. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (21/10/1992)
5. Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs Ultimo Dragon & Masao Orihara (11/12/1992)
6. Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (14/12/1992)
7. Jushin Liger vs Franz Schumann (Germany, 19/12/1992)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 11)

1. Jushin Liger & Erik Watts vs Sting & Steve Williams (Starrcade, 28/12/1992)
2. Jushin Liger & Kensuke Sasaki vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (19/22/1992)
3. Jushin Liger vs Ultimo Dragon (4/1/1993)
4. Jushin Liger vs Brad Armstrong (5/2/1993)
5. Jushin Liger & Ultimo Dragon vs Norio Honaga & Hiro Saito (16/2/1993)
6. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Dean Malenko & Pegasus Kid (9/3/1993)
7. Jushin Liger vs Dean Malenko (21/3/1993)
8. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Dean Malenko & Pegasus Kid (23/3/1993)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 12)

1. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Ultimo Dragon & Masao Orihara (WAR, 2/4/1993)
2. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Norio Honaga & Ultimo Dragon (6/4/1993)
3. Jushin Liger vs Tiger Mask (3/5/1993)
4. Jushin Liger vs Eddie Guerrero (9/6/1993)
5. Jushin Liger & Shinjiro Ohtani vs Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero (10/6/1993)
6. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (11/6/1993)
7. Jushin Liger vs 2 Cold Scorpio (12/6/1993) NJPW Top Of The Super Juniors
8. Jushin Liger & Osamu Nishimura vs El Samurai & Shinjiro Ohtani (30/6/1993)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 13)

1. Jushin Liger & Shinjiro Ohtani vs Tiger Mask & El Samurai (14/7/1993)
2. Jushin Liger & Tokimitsu Ishizawa vs El Samurai & Osamu Nishimura (22/7/1993)
3. Jushin Liger & Tatsumi Fujinami vs Genichiro Tenryu & Koki Kitahara (3/8/1993)
4. Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask vs Dean Malenko & Shinjiro Ohtani (20/9/1993)
5. Jushin Liger vs Tiger Mask III (24/9/1993)
6. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (26/9/1993)
7. Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs Shinya Hashimoto & Masahiro Chono (15/10/1993)
8. Jushin Liger & Wild Pegasus vs Akira Nogami & Takayuki Iizuka (4/11/1993)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 14)

1. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (24/11/1993)
2. Jushin Liger vs The Great Kabuki (13/12/1993)
3. Jushin Liger vs Fit Finlay (18/12/1993)
4. Jushin Liger vs Tiger Mask (4/1/1994)
5. Jushin Liger vs Tokimitsu Ishizawa (23/1/1994)
6. Jushin Liger & Power Warrior vs Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner (17/2/1994)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 15)

1. Jushin Liger vs Shinya Hashimoto (24/2/1994)
2. Jushin Liger vs Villano IV (6/3/1994)
3. Jushin Liger & Tatsumi Fujinami vs Black Tiger & Brian Blair (18/3/1994)
4. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (21/3/1994)
5. Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner (4/4/1994)
6. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Akira Nogami & Takayuki Iizuka (7/4/1994)
7. Jushin Liger vs Hayabusa (16/4/1994)
8. Jushin Liger vs Ricky Fuji (16/4/1994)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 16)

1. Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (16/4/1994)
2. Jushin Liger vs Satoru Sayama (1/5/1994)
3. Jushin Liger, Octagon, Tiger Mask y El Hijo Del Santo vs Eddy Guerrero, La Parka, Blue Panther y Psicosis (AAA, 15/5/1994)
4. Jushin Liger vs David Finlay (26/5/1994)
5. Jushin Liger, El Samurai, Shinjiro Ohtani & Tokimitsu Ishizawa vs The Great Sasuke, TAKA Michinoku, SATO & Shiryu (2/3, 1/6/1994)
6. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (8/6/1994)
7. Jushin Liger vs Super Delfin (13/6/1994)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 17)

1. Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (8/7/1994)
2. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Dean Malenko & Gran Hamada (3/8/1994)
3. Jushin Liger vs Gran Hamada (4/8/1994)
4. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Norio Honaga & Gran Hamada (19/9/1994)
5. Jushin Liger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (23/9/1994)
6. Keiji Mutoh & Wild Pegasus vs Jushin Liger & Riki Choshu (24/9/1994)
7. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Koji Kanemoto (11/8/1995)
8. Jushin Liger vs Kazuo Yamazaki (12/8/1995)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 18)

1. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Koji Kanemoto (13/8/1995)
2. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Ohtani (15/8/1995)
3. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (Nitro, 4/9/1995)
4. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Masahiro Chono & Sabu (21/9/1995)
5. Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani (25/9/1995)
6. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (9/10/1995)
7. Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs Naoki Sano & Kenichi Yamamoto (29/10/1995)
8. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Koji Kanemoto (30/10/1995)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 19)

1. Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (11/12/1995)
2. Jushin Liger vs Gran Naniwa (12/12/1995)
3. Jushin Liger vs Ultimo Dragon (13/12/1995)
4. Jushin Liger vs Gedo (13/12/1995)
5. Jushin Liger vs Chris Benoit (Starrcade, 27/12/1995)
6. Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (4/1/1996)
7. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Shinya Hashimoto & Koji Kanemoto (12/1/1996)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 20)

1. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (3/2/1996)
2. Jushin Liger & Black Tiger vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Koji Kanemoto (15/2/1996)
3. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Kensuke Sasaki (20/2/1996)
4. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Nobuhiko Takada & Naoki Sano (25/2/1996)
5. Jushin Liger & Shinya Hashimoto vs Chris Benoit & Scott Norton (13/3/1996)
6. Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani (17/3/1996)
7. Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Ohtani (26/3/1996)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 21)

1. Jushin Liger, Gran Hamada & El Samurai vs Taka Michinoku, Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Ohtani (5/4/1996)
2. Jushin Liger vs The Great Sasuke (29/6/1996)
3. Jushin Liger vs Dean Malenko (Nitro, 6/5//1996)
4. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (28/5/1996)
5. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Hiro Saito & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (18/2/1996)
6. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (11/6/1996)
7. Jushin Liger vs Black Tiger (12/6/1996)
8. Jushin Liger vs Eddy Guerrero (Pro, 15/6/1996)
9. Jushin Liger vs Dick Togo (17/6/1996)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 22)

1. Jushin Liger vs Billy Kidman (Pro, 22/6/1996)
2. Jushin Liger, Shinya Hashimoto & Junji Hirata vs Masahiro Chono, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Hiro Saito (24/6/1996)
3. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Masao Orihara (29/6/1996)
4. Jushin Liger, El Samurai & Norio Honaga vs Tokimitsu Ishizawa, Shinjiro Ohtani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (16/7/1996)
5. Jushin Liger vs Randy Savage (17/7/1996)
6. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Lance Storm & Yuji Yasuraoka (WAR, 20/7/1996)
7. Jushin Liger, Gedo, Lion Heart & Juventud Guerrera vs Rey Mysterio Jr, Ultimo Dragon, Lance Storm & Yuji Yasuraoka (WAR, 21/7/1996)
8. Jushin Liger vs Ultimo Dragon (2/8/1996)
9. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & ***** Casas (6/8/1996)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 23)

1. Jushin Liger, Gran Naniwa & Gran Hamada vs TAKA Michinoku, Shochi Funaki & Dick Togo (M-Pro, 18/8/1996)
2. Jushin Liger vs Wild Pegasus (23/9/1996)
3. Jushin Liger, Keiji Mutoh & Rick Steiner vs Masahiro Chono, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Hiro Saito (14/10/1996)
4. Jushin Liger vs The Great Muta (20/10/1996)
5. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Junji Hirata (25/10/1996)
6. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (28/10/1996)
7. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Norio Honaga (1/11/1996)

Best of Jushin Liger (1989 - 1996) (Volume 24)

1. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Lance Storm & Yuji Yasuraoka (WAR, 9/11/1996)
2. Jushin Liger vs Chavo Guerrero Jr (26/11/1996)
3. Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Ohtani (1/12/1996)
4. Jushin Liger & Keiji Mutoh vs Brad Armstrong & Koji Kanemoto (5/12/1996)
5. Jushin Liger & Norio Honaga vs Shinjiro Ohtani & Koji Kanemoto (7/12/1996)
6. Jushin Liger & Chavo Guerrero Jr vs Koji Kanemoto & Norio Honaga (10/12/1996)
7. Jushin Liger vs Rey Mysterio Jr (Starrcade, 29/12/1996)
8. Jushin Liger vs Ultimate Dragon (Nitro, 30/12/1996)


----------



## PUNQ (Jul 24, 2017)

Okay, I know this is overkill in every way, but since I have a lot of free time at the start of this year I decided to watch and explore wrestling from all over. Trying out a few subscription services and whatever archives are out there to see what's going on in the world. This week I watched a ton of US, Japanese and Mexican wrestling and this was how the experience was. While I watched "too much" (if there is such a thing), the variety helps make it more enjoyable. Hell, even WWE became easier to watch because it so different to the rest of the wrestling world. So this is what became available last week at the various services.


Top-20 Matches Week 1, 2018



Spoiler: Top-20 - Week 1, 2018



1. January 4, 2018 - Kenny Omega (c) -vs- Chris Jericho - (IWGP US Title) [**** 1/2] (NJPW)
2. January 4, 2018 - Kazuchika Okada (c) -vs- Tetsuya Naito - (IWGP Title) [**** 1/4] (NJPW)
3. January 4, 2018 - Marty Scurrl (c) -vs- Will Ospreay -vs- KUSHIDA -vs- Hiromu Takahashi - (IWGP Junior Title; 4-Way) [****] (NJPW)
4. January 4, 2018 - Kota Ibushi -vs- Cody [****] (NJPW)
5. January 5, 2018 - Jiro Kuroshio -vs- Konosuke Takeshita - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [*** 3/4] (DDT)

6. January 4, 2018 - SHO & YOH (c) -vs- Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson - (IWGP Junior Tag Title) [*** 3/4] (NJPW)
7. January 5, 2018 - Shuji Ishikawa -vs- Mike Bailey - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [*** 1/2] (DDT)
8. January 6, 2018 - Niebla Roja -vs- Gran Guerrero [*** 1/2] (CMLL)
9. January 6, 2018 - Titán & Pegasso -vs- Virus & Raziel [*** 1/4] (CMLL)
10. January 6, 2018 - Sansón & Cuatrero & Forastero -vs- Guerrero Maya Jr. & Drone & Esfinge [*** 1/4] (CMLL)

11. January 4, 2018 - Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. (c) -vs- "King of Darkness" EVIL & SANADA - (IWGP Tag Title) [*** 1/4] (NJPW)
12. December 9, 2017 - El Hijo del Fantasma & Pagano & Psycho Clown -vs- Averno & Chessman & El Texano Jr. [*** 1/4] (AAA)
13. January 4, 2018 - Minoru Suzuki (c) -vs- Hirooki Goto - (NEVER Openweight Title; Hair vs Title; No Seconds Death Match) [***] (NJPW)
14. January 6, 2018 - Soberano Jr. -vs- Rey Cometa [***] (CMLL)
15. January 6, 2018 - Último Guerrero & Valiente -vs- Cavernario & Volador Jr. [***] (CMLL)

16. January 6, 2018 - Flyer & Audaz & Magia Blanca -vs- Yago & El Coyote & Templario [** 3/4] (CMLL)
17. January 1, 2018 - Roman Reigns (c) -vs- Samoa Joe - (WWE Intercontinental Title) [** 3/4] (WWE)
18. January 1, 2018 - ***** Casas -vs- Sam Adonis - (Hair vs Hair) [** 3/4] (CMLL)
19. January 3, 2018 - HARASHIMA & Kazusada Higuchi & Jiro Kuroshio -vs- Konosuke Takeshita & Shuji Ishikawa & Mike Bailey [** 1/2] (DDT)
20. January 5, 2018 - Yukio Sakaguchi -vs- Kazusada Higuchi - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [** 1/2] (DDT)






*WWE Universe*



Spoiler: WWE Universe - Week 1, 2018



*WWE - "Monday Night RAW/Main Event" - January 1, 2018, Miami, Florida, USA - (3 hrs)*
*January 1, 2018, Miami, Florida, USA - American Airlines Arena*
_Main Event #274_
1. Dana Brooke -vs- Mickie James [3/4*]
2. Akira Tozawa -vs- Tony Nese [* 1/4]
_Monday Night RAW #1284_
3. Jason Jordan -vs- Cesaro [** 1/4]
4. Bray Wyatt -vs- Apollo Crews [* 1/4]
5. Asuka -vs- Alexa Bliss [* 1/2]
6. Braun Strowman -vs- Rhyno [3/4*]
7. Roman Reigns (c) -vs- Samoa Joe - (WWE Intercontinental Title) [** 3/4]
8. Goldust & Cedric Alexander -vs- Ariya Daivari & Drew Gulak [*]
9. Finn Balor & Karl Anderson & Luke Gallows -vs- Elias & Bo Dallas & Curtis Axel [* 1/4]


Raw has become a lot more watchable since they started doing longer matches a few weeks back. While not all the guys are "big match" guys, they gain a lot of ring experience and they put more effort into the lay-out for the matches, which is more to my appeal as talk is cheap, especially WWE style talking. I'm getting into Jordan's cocky persona and Reigns/Joe had a real good TV bout.



*WWE - "SmackDown Live/205 Live" - January 2, 2018, Orlando, Florida, USA - (2 1/2 hrs)*
*January 2, 2018, Orlando, Florida, USA - Amway Center*
_SmackDown Live #959_
1. Jey Uso & Jimmy Uso (c) -vs- Chad Gable & Shelton Benjamin - (WWE SmackDown Tag Title) [**]
2. Xavier Woods -vs- Aiden English - (WWE United States Title Tournament - Round 1) [* 1/2]
3. Ruby Riott & Liv Morgan & Sarah Logan -vs- Natalya & Tamina & Carmella [*]
4. Sami Zayn -vs- AJ Styles [* 3/4]
_205 Live #58_
5. TJP -vs- Akira Tozawa [* 1/2]
6. Goldust & Cedric Alexander -vs- Ariya Daivari & Drew Gulak [* 1/4]


SmackDown on the other hand continues to be a rocky road. Not a major fan of the Shane McMahon stuff, and I feel they're bringing the wrestlers down with them. But of course this was Aiden English Day! So it was nto all bad. Good tag title bout, even with the screwy mess that concluded it.



*WWE - "NXT #281" - Novemebr 17, 2017, San Antonio, Texas, USA - (1/2 hr)*
*November 17, 2017, San Antonio, Texas, USA - Aztec Theatre*
1. Drew McIntyre (c) -vs- Adam Cole - (NXT Title) [** 1/4]
**Special Referee: Shawn Michaels*


The NXT show was mostly a recap of 2017 show, but they did have this special exlusive. Shawn Michaels as guest referee for the Drew/Cole title match! Good fun, but perhaps more shenanigans than excitement in that one.





*IMPACT*



Spoiler: IMPACT - Week 1, 2018



*IMPACT - Air Date: January 4, 2018 - (1 1/2 hrs)*
*November 9, 2017, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - Aberdeen Pavilion*
1. Trevor Lee (c) -vs- Taiji Ishimori - (Impact X-Division Title) [**]
2. Ethan Carter III (c) -vs- Fallah Bahh -vs- Matt Sydal - (IMPACT Grand Title; 3-Rounds) [* 1/2]
3. Dan Lambert -vs- James Storm - (Career vs Career) [1/4*]
4. Chandler Park -vs- Jon Bolen [1/4*]
*WrestlePro - December 9, 2017, Rahway, New Jersey, USA - Rahway Rec Center*
5. Eli Drake (c) -vs- Alberto El Patron - (Impact Global Title) [**]
*November 9, 2017, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - Aberdeen Pavilion*
6. Dave Crist & Jake Crist (c) -vs- Ortiz & Santana - (Impact Tag Title) [** 1/4]


Impact was back after two weeks of "2017 in review" repeats. Of course they're still stuck with the TV tapings from November. This had a real anti-climatic exit for James Storm and totally uninteresting Park brother debut, but oVe had their best Impact match since first appearing for the company and the bout where Ishimori won the X-Division Title finally aired. About time as Ishimori has already defended the belt in Japan weeks ago. Plus as part of their extended partnership with other promotions we got a Drake/Alberto title match from New Jersey's WrestlePro.






*NJPW*



Spoiler: NJPW - Week 1, 2018



*NJPW - "BIG PRO-WRESTLING FESTIVAL 2018" - January 3, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - (1 hr)*
*January 3, 2018, Tokyo - Differ Ariake (1,700 Fans)*
1. Tiger Mask & Ren Narita -vs- Jushin Thunder Liger & Tetsuhiro Yagi [* 1/2]
2. Satoshi Kojima & Katsuya Kitamura -vs- Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Tomoyuki Oka [* 3/4]
3. Yuji Nagata & Hirai Kawato -vs- Manabu Nakanishi & Shota Umino [* 1/2]


Part of the build-up to the Dome festival where they annually book the least interesting matches they possibly can. Better than last year's pre-Dome show, much due to eager rookies working hard.



*NJPW - "WRESTLE KINGDOM 12 IN TOKYO DOME" - January 4, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - (6 hrs)*
*January 4, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - Tokyo Dome (34,995 Fans)*
1. 21-Man New Japan Rumble [** 1/2]
2. SHO & YOH (c) -vs- Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson - (IWGP Junior Tag Title) [*** 3/4]
3. Bad Luck Fale & Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa (c) -vs- Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano & Beretta -vs- Togi Makabe & Juice Robinson & Ryusuke Taguchi -vs- Takashi Iizuka & Zack Sabre Jr. & Taichi -vs- Michael Elgin & Raymond Rowe & Hanson - (NEVER Openweight 6-Man Tag Title; Gauntlet Match) [** 1/2]
4. Kota Ibushi -vs- Cody [****]
5. Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. (c) -vs- "King of Darkness" EVIL & SANADA - (IWGP Tag Title) [*** 1/4]
6. Minoru Suzuki (c) -vs- Hirooki Goto - (NEVER Openweight Title; Hair vs Title; No Seconds Death Match) [***]
7. Marty Scurrl (c) -vs- Will Ospreay -vs- KUSHIDA -vs- Hiromu Takahashi - (IWGP Junior Title; 4-Way) [****]
8. Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) -vs- Jay White - (IWGP Intercontinental Title; No-DQ) [** 1/4]
9. Kenny Omega (c) -vs- Chris Jericho - (IWGP US Title) [**** 1/2]
10. Kazuchika Okada (c) -vs- Tetsuya Naito - (IWGP Title) [**** 1/4]


Amazing show! Probable the best we'll see in 2018. Exhausting too, as New Japan gave every match time to shine. That's what we get for complaining that New Japan undercarfd matches are pointless. Here they had all types of styles getting epic level ring-time, and it sure delivered in a big way! And hats off to Jericho proving how good of a ring general he can be when motivated. I'm one of the few that preferred the result of the main event. Naito doesn't need the title, he's popular in spite of the belt, and Okada is still a executive level main eventer who's still got milage at the gate. 



*NJPW - "NEW YEAR DASH" - January 5, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - (3 hrs)*
*January 5, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - Korakuen Hall (1,737 Fans)*
1. Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima & Yuji Nagata & Manabu Nakanishi -vs- Tomoyuki Oka & Shota Umino & Tetsuhiro Yagi & Ren Narita [* 1/2]
2. Takashi Iizuka & Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Taichi & El Desperado & Taka Michinoku -vs- Togi Makabe & Toa Henare & Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask & Hirai Kawato [**]
3. Jay White -vs- Katsuya Kitamura - (Katsuya Kitmura 7 Match Trial Series #1) [* 3/4]
4. Kenny Omega & Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson -vs- SHO & YOH & Cheeseburger [**]
5. Cody & Yujiro Takahashi & Chase Owens & Marty Scurll & Leo Tonga -vs- Kota Ibushi & Juice Robinson & David Finlay & KUSHIDA & Ryusuke Taguchi [**]
6. Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano & Beretta (c) -vs- Bad Luck Fale & Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa - (NEVER Openweight 6-Man Tag Title) [** 1/4]
7. Minoru Suzuki & Zack Sabre Jr. & Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. -vs- Hiroshi Tanahashi & Michel Elgin & Raymond Rowe & Hanson [** 1/4]
8. Tetsuya Naito & "King of Darkness" EVIL & SANADA & BUSHI & Hiromu Takahashi -vs- Kazuchika Okada & Hirooki Goto & YOSHI-HASHI & Will Ospreay & Gedo [** 1/2]


Fun "Raw after Mania" show, but it was a clear nachspiel atmosphere in the ring where everybody could breath safely and relax from the pressure of the successful Dome show. So the matches weren't anything special. Instead it was teh angles time to come. Naito vs Jericho, yes please! Omega vs White... meh, but let's hope White can do better than against Tanahashi.






*DDT Universe*



Spoiler: DDT Universe - Week 1, 2018



*DDT - “NEW YEAR’S SPECIAL! 2018” - January 3, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - (3 hrs)*
*January 3, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - Korakuen Hall (1,187 Fans)*
1. Hoshitango & Rekka -vs- Mizuki Watase & Daiki Shimomura [* 1/4]
2. Akito -vs- Yuki Ueno [* 3/4]
3. KUDO & Yukio Sakaguchi & Saki Akai -vs- Toru Owashi & Kazuki Hirata & Veda Scott - (Infomercial Match – “LADY NINJA: A Blue Shadow” Movie) [*]
4. 10-Man New Year Kakizome Rumble [*]
5. Soma Takao -vs- Masahiro Takanashi [* 1/2]
6. Makoto Oishi & Shunma Katsumata & MAO -vs- Danshoku Dino & Brahman Shu & Brahman Kei [1/2*]
7. Daisuke Sasaki & Tetsuya Endo -vs- Colt Cabana & Antonio Honda [**]
8. HARASHIMA & Kazusada Higuchi & Jiro Kuroshio -vs- Konosuke Takeshita & Shuji Ishikawa & Mike Bailey [** 1/2]


First show of the year had a sick Dino 6-man! Bring a bucket to puke in if you're going to watch that one. The main event was good, but only a warm-up for the D-oh tournament. Antonio Honda & Colt Cabana teaming brought a few laughs as well.



*TOKYO JOSHI PRO - “TOKYO JOSHI PRO ’18” - January 4, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - (3 hrs)*
*January 4, 2018, Tokyo, Japan - Korakuen Hall (1,201 Fans)*
1. Miu & Hinano -vs- Raku & Hikari - (Miu, Hinano, Raku & Hikari Debut Match) [1/2*]
2. Yuu & Nodoka-oneesan & Marika Kobashi -vs- Rika Tatsumi & Hyper Misao & Yuki Kamifuku [*]
3. Veda Scott -vs- Maho Kurone [3/4*]
4. Danshoku Dino -vs- Maki Ito [* 1/2]
5. Saki-sama & Azusa Christie -vs- Nonoko & Yuna Manase [*]
6. Yuka Sakazaki & Shoko Nakajima (c) -vs- Riho & Mizuki - (TOKYO Princess Tag Title) [**]
7. Reika Saiki (c) -vs- Miyu Yamashita - (TOKYO Princess Of Princess Title) [** 1/4]


First time I see a TJP show. Not overly impressed so far, but there are a few characters that caught my eye. The last two matches were good and the kissy Dino/Ito bout is one some will love.



*DDT - "D-OH GRAND PRIX 2018 IN SHINJUKU" - January 5, 2017, Tokyo - (2 1/2 hrs)*
*January 5, 2017, Tokyo - Shinjuku FACE (464 Fans)*
1. Joey Ryan & Veda Scott -vs- Soma Takao & Antonio Honda -vs- KUDO & Toru Owashi -vs- Makoto Oishi & Shunma Katsumata - (4-Way) [* 1/2]
2. Yukio Sakaguchi -vs- Kazusada Higuchi - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [** 1/2]
3. Tetsuya Endo -vs- Masahiro Takanashi - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [**]
4. Akito -vs- Daisuke Sasaki - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [** 1/4]
5. Keisuke Ishii -vs- HARASHIMA - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [** 1/2]
6. Shuji Ishikawa -vs- Mike Bailey - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [*** 1/2]
7. Jiro Kuroshio -vs- Konosuke Takeshita - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [*** 3/4]


Then for the start of January's highlight for DDT. The D-Oh Grand Prix opening day, which was much better than the bigger Korakuen Hall show a couple of days earlier. Especially look out for Ishikawa/Bailey and Takeshita/Ikemen! Both excellent, especially considering it's from a indy platform.



*TOKYO JOSHI PRO - “LET’S GO! GO! IF YOU GO! WHEN YOU GO! IF YOU GET LOST JUST GO TO OSAKA!” - January 7, 2018, Osaka - (2 1/4 hrs)*
*January 7, 2018, Osaka Hirano Community Hall (397 Fans)*
1. Miu & Raku -vs- Hikari & Hinano [3/4*]
2. Yuka Sakazaki -vs- Nodoka-oneesan [1/2*]
3. Shoko Nakajima -vs- Hyper Misao - (Drinking Games Rules) [*]
4. Rika Tatsumi & Maho Kurone & Mizuki -vs- Nonoko & Yuna Manase & Yuki Kamifuku [* 1/4]
5. Saki-sama & Azusa Christie -vs- Yuu & Marika Kobashi [* 1/2]
6. Miyu Yamashita (c) -vs- Veda Scott - (TOKYO Princess Of Princess Title) [* 3/4]


TJP, along with the rest of the DDT Universe, goes off to Osaka for a few days. Not a very attractive card except the curio of Veda Scott challenging for the TJP Title.



*DDT "D-OH GRAND PRIX 2018 IN OSAKA 2DAYS - DAY 1" - January 7, 2018, Osaka, Japan - (3 hrs)*
*January 7, 2018, Osaka Hirano Kumin Hall (438 Fans)*
1. Shunma Katsumata & MAO & Veda Scott -vs- Danshoku Dino & Kazuki Hirata & Yuki Ueno [3/4*]
2. Keisuke Ishii -vs- Toru Owashi -vs- Naomi Yoshimura -vs- Kouki Iwasaki - (4-Way) [*]
3. Kazusada Higuchi -vs- Soma Takao - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [** 1/4]
4. HARASHIMA -vs- Joey Ryan - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [**]
5. Mike Bailey -vs- Akito - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [** 1/2]
6. Jiro Kuroshio -vs- Masahiro Takanashi - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [** 1/4]
7. Yukio Sakaguchi -vs- Daisuke Sasaki - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block B) [**]
8. Konosuke Takeshita -vs- Tetsuya Endo - (D-Oh Grand Prix - Block A) [** 1/4]


The second day of the D-Oh Grand Prix wasn't as good as the first day, but it was constantly solid and worth your time. Takeshita/Endo continue to do epic style wrestling, but I felt Bailey/Akito got the most out of their fight.





*STARDOM*



Spoiler: Stardom World - Week 1, 2018



*STARDOM - "NEW YEAR STARS 2018 - DAY 1" - January 3, 2018, Tokyo - (1 3/4 hrs)* 
*January 3, 2018, Tokyo - Shin-Kiba 1st RING (445 Fans)*
1. Shiki Shibusawa -vs- Hanan -vs- Ruaka - (3-Way) [*]
2. Kaori Yoneyama -vs- Hiromi Mimura [* 1/2]
3. Xia Brookside & Miranda -vs- Konami & Starlight Kid [* 3/4]
4. Kay Lee Ray & Nicole Savoy & Rachael Ellering -vs- Mari Apache & Jungle Kyona & Natsuko Tora [**]
5. Io Shirai & AZM & HZK & Momo Watanabe -vs- Kagetsu & Hana Kimura & Kris Wolf & Sumire Natsu [**]


One show was loaded-up on Stardom World, their first of the years from a packed Shin-kiba. More of a "Road to..." Korakuen Hall on January 21st where the main event sets up a 5 vs 5 match. It was most interesting to see all the foreigners, many who was a part of th Mae Young Classics last year.






*The RealHero Archive*



Spoiler: The RealHero Archive - Week 1, 2018



3 shows uploaded last week, all from last year. We have to wait a few weeks for the New Years shows from Z-1, W-1, AJPW, BJW, etc...


*K-DOJO - "TOKYO BIG SHOW" - December 17, 2017, Tokyo - (1 1/2 hrs)*
*December 17, 2017, Tokyo - Shin-Kiba 1st RING (165 Fans)*
1. Kotaro Yoshino & Dinosaur Takuma & Bambi -vs- Ricky Fuji & Daigoro Kashiwa & Yoshihiro Horaguchi [*]
2. Shiori Asahi -vs- Ayame Sasamura [3/4*]
3. Kunio Toshima & Kyu Mogami -vs- GO Asakawa & Yuma [* 1/4]
4. Massimo & Marines Mask -vs- Tank Nagai & Ayumu Honda [*]
5. Daisuke Sasaki (c) -vs- Taka Michinoku - (Independent Junior Title) [* 1/2]
6. Taishi Takizawa (c) -vs- Kaji Tomato - (STRONGEST-K Title) [* 3/4]


Kaientai Dojo's not so Tokyo Big Show. Too much how K-Dojo is. Taking a page out of modern Taka Michinoku work ethic. No fire, some smarts, but mostly nothing at all.



*WRESTLE-1 - "WRESTLE-1 WINTER FESTIVAL 2017" - December 23, 2017, Tokyo, Japan - (1 1/4 hrs)*
*December 23, 2017, Tokyo, Japan - WRESTLE-1 Dojo (240 Fans)*
1. Hajime -vs- Takumi Baba [1/2*]
2. Ganseki Tanaka -vs- Jun Tonsho [3/4*]
3. Daiki Inaba & Takanori Ito -vs- Jiro Kuroshio & Tsugataka Sato [**]
4. 8-Man Royal Rumble [*]


W-1's last show of 2017 was just a small dojo show. Only for the real hardcore W-1 fans with one fun match and 3 very forgettable ones.



*TOSHIKOSHI PRO-WRESTLING 2017 "TOSHIWASURE! SHUFFLE TAG TOURNAMENT" - Decemebr 31, 2017, Tokyo, Japan - (5 hrs)*
*Decemebr 31, 2017, Tokyo, Japan - Korakuen Hall (1,411 Fans)*
1. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazusada Higuchi -vs- Ryota Hama & Takao Soma - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block A - Round 1) [* 1/4]
2. Kazuki Hashimoto & Akito -vs- Kota Sekifuda & Ryota Nakatsu - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block B - Round 1) [* 1/2]
3. Daisuke Sasaki & Brahman Kei -vs- Antonio Honda & Takuya Nomura - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block C - Round 1) [3/4*]
4. Danshoku Dino & Daichi Hashimoto -vs- Keisuke Ishii & Zangief Ueki (Takayuki Ueki) - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block D - Round 1) [*]
5. HARASHIMA & Yuko Miyamoto -vs- Yukio Sakaguchi & Yuya Aoki - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block E - Round 1) [*]
6. Isami Kodaka & Yoshihisa Uto -vs- Masahiro Takanashi & Tatsuhiko Yoshino - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block F - Round 1) [* 1/2]
7. Abdullah Kobayashi & Colt "Boom Boom" Cabana -vs- Minoru Fujita & Shunma Katsumata - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block G - Round 1) [1/2*]
8. Hideki Suzuki & Konosuke Takeshita -vs- Great Kojika & Tetsuya Endo - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Block H - Round 1) [* 1/4]
9. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazusada Higuchi -vs- Kazuki Hashimoto & Akito - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Round 2) [*]
10. Daisuke Sasaki & Brahman Kei -vs- Danshoku Dino & Daichi Hashimoto - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Round 2) [3/4*]
11. HARASHIMA & Yuko Miyamoto -vs- Isami Kodaka & Yoshihisa Uto - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Round 2) [**]
12. Brody the Hideki (Hideki Suzuki) & Jimmy Takeshidata (Konosuke Takeshita) -vs- Abdullah Kobayashi & Colt "Boom Boom" Cabana - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Round 2) [1/2*]
13. Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazusada Higuchi -vs- HARASHIMA & Yuko Miyamoto - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Semi-Final) [**]
14. Brody the Hideki & Jimmy Takeshidata -vs- Daisuke Sasaki & Brahman Kei - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Semi-Final) [* 1/4]
15. Kotaro Yoshino & Dinosaur Takuma & Kazumi Kikuta & MAO -vs- Taka Michinoku & Dick Togo & Ryuji Ito & Sanshiro Takagi - (Taka Michinoku 25th Anniversary Match) [* 1/2]
16. Hideki Suzuki & Konosuke Takeshita -vs- Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazusada Higuchi - (Shuffle Tag Tournament - Final) [** 1/4]


The annual New Years indy show with BJW/DDT. A real party, but not exactly a show which brings the snowflakes regardless of being entertaining. It's a tradition, and a highly watchable one at that.






*CMLL*



Spoiler: CMLL - Week 1, 2018



*CMLL - "Lunes Arena Mexico" - January 1, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - (2 1/2 hrs)*
*January 1, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - Arena Mexico*
1. Eléctrico & Último Dragóncito -vs- Mercurio & Pequeño Olímpico [* 3/4]
2. Starman & Oro Jr. & Star Jr. -vs- Raziel & Cancerbero & El Hijo del Signo [** 1/4]
3. Blue Panther Jr. & The Panther & Pegasso -vs- Virus & Nitro & Sagrado [**]
4. Mr. Niebla & Shocker & Vangellys -vs- Titán & Drone & Esfinge [* 1/2]
5. Valiente & Ángel de Oro & Niebla Roja -vs- Sansón & Cuatrero & Forastero [**]
6. ***** Casas -vs- Sam Adonis - (Hair vs Hair) [** 3/4]


CMLL open the year with a ordinary show with a special treat. A hair match between Casas/Adonis! That one was fun. Only wish it had lasted longer for the drama to sink in.


*CMLL - "Martes Arena Mexico" - January 2, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - (2 hrs)*
January 2, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - Arena Mexico
1. Fantasy & Shockercito -vs- Pequeño Nitro & Pierrothito [* 1/2]
2. Starman & Astral & Robin -vs- Nitro & Cancerbero & Hijo del Signo [*]
3. Dalys & La Metálica & Tiffany -vs- Princesa Sugehit & La Jarochita & Maligna [* 1/2]
4. The Panther -vs- Tritón - (Lightning Match) [** 1/2]
5. Stuka Jr. & Guerrero Maya Jr. & Soberano Jr. -vs- Mr. Niebla & Felino & Sagrado [** 1/4]
6. Carístico & Ángel de Oro & Niebla Roja -vs- Sansón & Cuatrero & Forastero [**]


Day 2 brought a standard show. Dull undercard, a unlucky Lighting Match where Triton knocked himself out on a corkscrew moonsault after a firey pace and rushed main events. 



*CMLL - "Sabados Arena Mexico" - January 6, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - (2 1/2 hrs)*
*January 6, 2018, Mexico City, Mexico - Arena Mexico*
1. Flyer & Audaz & Magia Blanca -vs- Yago & El Coyote & Templario [** 3/4]
2. Titán & Pegasso -vs- Virus & Raziel [*** 1/4]
3. Soberano Jr. -vs- Rey Cometa [***]
4. Sansón & Cuatrero & Forastero -vs- Guerrero Maya Jr. & Drone & Esfinge [*** 1/4]
5. Niebla Roja -vs- Gran Guerrero [*** 1/2]
6. Último Guerrero & Valiente -vs- Cavernario & Volador Jr. [***]


But for their Saturday show (no Friday show) they did something big. A rematch special of last years most hyped matches. And it was great show top-to-bottom! Only beat by New Japan's Tokyo Dome show! A good way to start your lucha year.





*AAA*



Spoiler: AAA - Week 1, 2018



*AAA - December 9, 2017, Ciudad de Mexico, Distrito Federal, Mexico - (1/2 hr)*
*December 9, 2017, Ciudad de Mexico, Distrito Federal, Mexico - Gimnasio Olímpico Juan de la Barrera*
1. El Hijo del Fantasma & Pagano & Psycho Clown -vs- Averno & Chessman & El Texano Jr. [*** 1/4]


AAA have been doing Best of 2017 recap shows for a few weeks, and it was mostly that this week too, with the exception of this benefit show match-up where the AAA put their working shoes on and entertained the fans to finance a school struck by the earthquake in September.





*Lucha Libre Independents*



Spoiler: Lucha Libre Independents - Week 1, 2018



*IWRG - January 1, 2018, Naucalpan de Juarez, Estado de Mexico, Mexico - (1 1/2 hrs)*
*January 1, 2018, Naucalpan de Juarez, Estado de Mexico, Mexico - Arena Naucalpan*
1. Cadillac -vs- Chicanito -vs- Diablo Jr. I -vs- Dragon Bane -vs- Fulgor II -vs- Guerrero 2000 -vs- Motocross -vs- Ram El Carnero -vs- Lunatik Extreme -vs- X-Corpio - (Lucha De Apuesta Mask vs Hair; Cage) [* 1/2]
2. Aramis -vs- Alas de Acero -vs- Black Dragon -vs- Dinamic Black -vs- Emperador Azteca -vs- Fly Warrior -vs- Freelance -vs- Septimo Rayo - (Reyes Del Aire; Cage) [**]
3. Chico Che -vs- Obett - (Hair vs Hair; Cage) [* 1/2]
4. Trauma I & Trauma II -vs- Capo Del Norte & Capo Del Sur -vs- Danny Casas & Veneno -vs- Rokambole Jr. & Villano V Jr. - (Cage) [* 1/4]
5. Imposible (c) -vs- Dr. Cerebro - (IWRG Rey Del Ring Title; Ladder; Cage) [* 3/4]


My first IWRG show. I saw someon call IWRG both the best and worst promotion of 2017, which tells you all you need really. Seems to be a creative group for both joys and frustration. Their first show of 2018 was a all-cage show of various rules. Pretty chaotic for someone not used to their product. The main event however is a MUST! The brawling wasn't bad, but the WCW level booking and cock-ups made it more awkward fun. Rules first. Cage battle until 10 minutes when a Ladder was brough in. You then had to take down the belt hanging over the ring before you had to climb out of the cage with the belt. Corny. And to make it worse, the champion Imposible had it won, but managed to lose the belt back in the ring as he was going over the cage, so he had to climb back in and climb back out again for the anti-climax! I think I might enjoy this 



*Invasion Indy - January 1, 2018, Ciudad Nezahualcoyotl, Estado de Mexico, Mexico - (1/2 hrs)*
*January 1, 2018, Ciudad Nezahualcoyotl, Estado de Mexico, Mexico - Arena Neza*
1. Alan Extreme -vs- Bizarro -vs- Flama Roja -vs- Motocross -vs- Oro ***** -vs- Yoruba -vs- Vampiro Metalico -vs- Guerrero Mixtico - (Hair vs Hair; Cage) [*]
2. Rey Wagner & El Hijo del Dr. Wagner Jr. -vs- Mr. Electro & Sharlie Rockstar [**]


I decided to try out of a few independent lucha companies. On this one Dr. Wagner Jr (aka Rey Wagner) ruled the ringw. Not that there was much else to report from the limited hand-held footage from this one.



*Promociones TSW - January 1, 2018, Ciudad Nezahualcoyotl, Estado de Mexico, Mexico - (1 hr)*
*January 1, 2018, Ciudad Nezahualcoyotl, Estado de Mexico, Mexico*
1. Toro ***** Jr. -vs- Heddi Karaoui [* 1/4]
2. Black Warrior -vs- Toxin [* 3/4]
3. Oro Jr. & Starman -vs- Lokillus & Yoruba [** 1/4]
4. Golden Magic -vs- El Sagrado [* 1/2]
5. Blue Panther Jr. & The Panther -vs- Ciclon Ramirez Jr. & Emperador Azteca [** 1/2]
6. Bandido -vs- Niebla Roja [** 1/4]


This one was interesting. A CMLL vs TSW inter-promotional show! The big leagues against a local promotion. Some of the matches were brutally out-matched, but there still was a lot of curiosity value in those matches. 



*FULL - January 5, 2018, Explanada de la Delegacion, Cuauhtémoc, Distrito Federal, Mexico - (3/4 hrs)*
*January 5, 2018, Explanada de la Delegacion, Cuauhtémoc, Distrito Federal, Mexico*
1. La Parkita & Máscarita Sagrada -vs- Mini Cibernetico & Pequeño Warrior [* 1/2]
2. Ángel Del Amor & Reyna Dorada & Saru -vs- Hip Hop Man & Quimera & Ryder [* 1/2]
3. Hijo de Máscara Año 2000 & Luzbel & Psicosis II -vs- Hijo de Máscara Sagrada & Máximo & Oriental [**]
4. Penta Zero M & Tinieblas Jr -vs- Pirata Morgan & Hijo del Pirata Morgan [** 1/4]


For the intrigue of watching a lucha show outdoors in the dark. Pretty cool main event with the help of the mini mascot!


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Forgot Ultimo Dragon went to WWE. Fuck he's embarrassing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jerry Lawler vs Bam Bam Bigelow -(Memphis 09/07/1986) (Texas Death Match)*

:done

Holy fuck it's more Memphis glory.

This is one of the definitive David/Goliath matches and features amazing performances by both, esp Lawler, who is out of this world great here. But Bigelow is no slouch either. He starts off cartwheeling to show off his athleticism but then it's straight down to business. Bigelow is the monster and Lawler is the undersized underdog looking to survive and try and punch and weave his way around the match.

From the first lock up Bigelow tosses Lawler across the ring with a roar and a thud. Jerry is in for a long day. They lock up again and Lawler punches Bam Bam in the face, but to no avail, as once again Bigelow throws Lawler to the other side of the ring.

Fucking great spot then as Bigelow punches Lawler, who then has the "Oh you want to play that game huh"? face on and gives him one hell of a swinging right hander back. Its now a game of catch me if you can. Just love how Lawker sells a punch.

They both go to the outside of the ring and Bigelow swings a right at Lawler but misses and hits his hand on the post. They get back in the ring and to his credit, Bigelow sells the hand as he gets sideswiped by a Lawler punch.

Lawler is so good at both taking a punch and delivering one.

Bigelow ends up winning the first fall by choking Lawler and repeatedly headbutts him in the ribs. Lawler is back up for the second fall but he's now holding his ribs, which Bam Bam takes full advantage of and goes straight for them with heavy punches and headbutts. He quickly takes the second fall too and he's in total control and is looking unbeatable.

Back up, Lawler storms over and punches Bigelow square in the mouth. Keep saying it and everyone knows it by now but, fuck Lawler can throw a damn punch. Bigelow buries hands deep into the midsection again going for those fucked up tibs of Lawler, but this time he misses a headbutt. Lawler covers and scores a fall back.

Lawler takes full advantage of getting a fall back with more big punches to Bam Bam. Bigelow is dazed from his own headbutt. Flying fist drop by gets Lawler his second fall. Bigelow does some really great bumping here, it's always such a treat seeing a man of that size bump around like this. Lawler continues selling the ribs to perfection and his performance just gets better.

It's 2-2 now and Bigelow is looking very vulnerable.

Lawler is staggering around and looking to punch himself out of trouble but is falling over himself.

:done Jerry fucking Lawler.

He misses a fist drop and Bigelow falls straight on him with a headbutt on the already banged up ribs. Bigelow punches Lawler so hard he falls forward. I go on about Jerry in this match being fucking tremendous but fuck, Bigelow is just doing everything so spot on too. His offense, selling and character work are just perfect.

Bigelow lays with all his weight on Lawler and hooks in a sleeper. He bites at Lawlers head and busts him open.

Ahhhhhh; Here comes the bloooooooooood.

Bigelow sleeper puts Lawler out and this could be all over. Larry Sharpe screams "Is here a Doctor in the house”? Lawler gets up so Bigelow goes straight for the open wound and the eye. Lawler gets a sleeper of his own. Bigelow gets up and snapmares him off. Bigelow elbow gets the three to take the fall.

Lawler straps are now down ~~~!!!

Lawler’s comeback is FUCKING PHENOMENAL. Bigelows takes a huge bump over the top rope. Lawler goes straight out and slams him into railing. Bigelows kicks him in midsection and Irish Whips him into ref. Bigelow pins Lawler, but the ref is dazed, but still gets the fall. Larry Sharpe (who's with Bigelow) storms in and nsils Bam Bam with a chair by accident. Both men are down as the ref starts counting to ten. First man up wins. Lawler is up and wins the match.

Not a big fan of the overly fuckery of the finish, but I guess it was done to protect Bigelow in defeat. Plus he ended up decking Sharpe and turning face in the process, so it was setup for that to happen too.

Well, what a fucking match. A definitive one for Bigelow without question and one for Lawler too. His selling was off the charts. He just sold those ribs and his comeback was one of the best I've ever seen. He plays the perfect foil to a monster like Bam Bam. Bigelow himself puts in one hell of a shift too though. He's bumping and selling like a veteran and plays his role to sheer perfection.

Everything he does to Lawler is on point. His offense, timing, selling, just all tremendous and Lawler puts one of his best performances to make it all look incredible. Seriously, this is probably one of his career defining performances in terms of selling, character work and how to work this sort of match as that trying to survive underdog. The sheer struggle he shows here and the timing of everything he does is a joy to behold.

A pretty incredible piece of work.

:done

Jerry fucking Lawler.

Trust me; Go out of your way and watch this shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perhaps its a slight in my obsessive wrestling fandom, but wow a King vs Bigelow match HAPPENED? In Memphis? w/a stip like Texas Death Match??
Holy shit. I need to buckle down and start watching some random stuff again now that I'm caught up w/2018 shenanigans.



Brock said:


> Yeah I've got one thst covers up until 1996
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only up until 1996 and there's soooooo much stuff. :monkey

Forgot about that Liger vs Savage match. That'll be next to watch as it is on Youtube.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Perhaps its a slight in my obsessive wrestling fandom, but wow a King vs Bigelow match HAPPENED? In Memphis? w/a stip like Texas Death Match??
> Holy shit. I need to buckle down and start watching some random stuff again now that I'm caught up w/2018 shenanigans.
> 
> 
> ...







Trust me; It's everything and a lot more than how I described it :done


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The names alone - and Bigelow getting to be a monster heel in the 80's vs a beloved babyface - has me feeling :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*CM Punk vs Mark Henry (WWE Monday Night RAW 04/02/2012)*

Talking about David & Goliath; This right here is another great example. I know Punk/Henry is usually talked about (think it's this match), but fuck this is a tremendous TV match.

Ah, the Johnny Ace era. How I remember thee. Punk called John Lauranitis a toolbox at the top of the show, so he's put into a match with the world's strongest man.

Henry is getting a title shot and he's going to make the most of it and punish Punk to the max. This is the night after WM, where Punk defeated Jericho of course (need to watch thst match again along with their ER match). So he comes into this Henry match with an injured back.

Perfect target for Mark Henry to fully exploit.

I fucking love Henry's trash talk throughout this match. 

The ref starts counting to get Henry to back off, so Henry goes "You wanna count? Count this" and we get Mark Henry counting along to each stomp he gives to Punk's back.

:done

"Did I tell you to move? You only move when I tell you to move"

:done

The match is all about trying to survive the big bear with a bad back. Henry throws him around the ring, pounds on him, stomps on him and generally mauls Punk. Punk valiantly tries fighting back with his kicks, but his back keeps giving way and Henry takes full advantage.

He stamps and stands directly on his back, Punk tries to fight back but is bought right down with a clothesline.

"I own you"

Henry's trash talk again :done

Henry continues to punish Punk and his poor back. Punk is in serious trouble, but still tries a comeback and the crowd get behind each one and he gets a DDT on Henry and gets s 2 count. He starts kicking Henry and clocks one off his head for another 2 count. Punk is turning this around but his back is still giving him trouble. He makes a critical mistake by going to the top turnbuckle. He jumps off but straight into the arms of Henry, who sends him crashing hard into the corner.

Punk still fights back with forearms but Henry has had enough of this shit and knocks Punk flat on his face with a tree trunk foot right to his face. Henry misses with a big splash from the top rope, so Punk tries to capitalise by jumping off the rope at Henry, but he's flattened by a Henry right hand.

Back from a break and again Punk tries again, but again he's flattened by Henry. This is a great story of a big bad mofo in Henry trying to maul and kill Punk, who's doing all he can to run, dodge and hit Henry with what ever he's got left.

Punk starts a very spirited comeback by delivering a flurry of kicks to Henry over and over again. One big kick finally managed to knock the monster down. Punk goes to the top ropes to hit the big elbow. He hits it but further injured his back in the process and is unable to go for the cover. He somehow runs at Henry in the corner and plants a high knee. Then another one. He tries to hit a bulldog, but Punk just lifts him up and throws him outside.

Punk is on the outside and Henry is still dazed, but needs to get Punk back in if he wants/cares about winning the title. Punk though ends up being counted out and Henry realises this and is PISSED!!!!

He goes straight for Punk and slams his back onto the floor to finish him off.

This is a tremendous match. Punk's selling and fighting through the pain with his bad back was soooo good. Mark Henry played the monster role to perfection. He gave CM Punk openings, but he also knew when to cut him off and get the heat and crowd to invest in Punk's comebacks. Henry's trash talk was another highlight of the match and it fitted perfectly into the story of the match. Punk kept trying to weave and dodge and time his big moves, but couldn't every time because of his back and he displayed this great. You were fully behind him as he fought through the pain amidst the power onslaught of Henry.

Fantastic performances by both and it's an excellent match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's the super popular match of their's. Extreme Rules match (or maybe its simply No DQ) in England is just a bit shy underneath it, but loads of good stuff too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jerry Lawler vs King Kong Bundy (Memphis 07/16/1984) $10,000 Challenge Match.*

The stip here is that Jimmy Hart has offered Lawler a $1000 for every minute he can survive Bundy in the ring, up to ten minutes. So Jerry has the opportunity to earn a cool $10,000 In total.

The challenge makes for a super fun match as Bundy obviously has to crush Lawler as quickly as he can to save Jimmy some money and Jerry has to do his best to survive if he wants the maximum payout.

Lawler sells like crazy for the first few minutes or so with Bundy dishing out a beatdown on him. Two minutes in and I'm already praising his selling. Lawler really was a master at it. Bundy even stomps on and kicks Lawler's crown out the ring :lol

Love Bundy getting pissed off at every failed cover as he knows as every minute passes, Lawler is getting more money and of course Jerry is only too aware of this. Bundy decimates Lawler as he's desperately trying to finish this quickly, but Jerry keeps kicking out. Bundy shows more frustration when the ring announcer shouts "One minute has passed". Just to further rub it in.

Jimmy Hart is running a cross the apron screaming at Bundy to finish him because it's his money he's put up.

Lawler starts fucking around on the outside, stalling for time and it just made perfect sense: the longer Lawler's in the match, the more money he makes. So he's obviously going to be dodging Bundy as much as he can to earn as much as he can. 

Eventually Bundy and Hart trap Lawler. Bundy beats up Jerry some more before Lawler drops the strap.

Fuck yeah.

He starts punching the shit out of Bundy and actually knocks him down. Rick Rude looks to make a run in, but Lawler heads him off and this allows but this allows Hart to throw a chain to Bundy, who clocks Lawler with it and to win the match at just shy of 7 minutes.

In fact, it was like 3 seconds shy of 7 minutes so they just about saved Hart another $1000 there lol.

Super fun match. Lawler was great, bumping and selling and playing up to the stip perfectly. As was Bundy. He tried to destroy Lawler as quickly as he could, but when he couldn't, he was great as showing the frustration and beating up Lawler all the more.

More great stuff from Memphis.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

zrc said:


> Forgot Ultimo Dragon went to WWE. Fuck he's embarrassing.


Hey! He had one good match in, like, 1992!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> blah blah blah


you got a link to that Punk/Henry match? Can only find their No DQ match online .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll upload it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Nick Bockwinkel vs Jerry Lawler (Memphis 11/08/82) (No DQ) (Title vs Hair)*

More glorious Jerry fucking Lawler.

:done

Lawler puts his hair on the line here and from the first minute I bet Lawler is regretting it as he takes a complete shit kicking from Bock. 3/4 of the match is Nick being a sadistic, violent bastard, who's intent on killing Lawler.

From the first minute they lock up and Nick gives Lawler a thunderous punch that sends Jerry crashing into the corner. Bock nails Lawler in the throat and knees him in the stomach and Jerry doesn't know what's going on. No idea which side of bed Bock woke up from that morning, but I wouldn't want to be in the opposite corner like Jerry is.

He doesn't let up as he gobrs Lawler a hefty palm strike to the eyes that damn nearly blinds Jerry, who says fuck this shit and bails to the outside to try and get some rest from this. Bock stays in the ring but is still stalking Lawler, just waiting for him to get back within his graap.

Lawler tries to brawl but is quickly swatted away and Bock again targets the eye. Lawler's selling as usual is great here. Bock unloads with more relentless punching to the midsection and the face and Jerry is already in big trouble. Bock just won't stop kicking the shit out of him. He even rotatrs his hand to signify the punching is wearing it out!!!

Lawler is trapped in the corner and Bock just stamps on him and is choking him out with his foot. The ref tries to pull Bock back, but he just don't let go. The ref ends up grabbing Bock's hair and physically pulls him off Lawler. It's a no DQ match, but there's still safety to consider. Lawler continues to take a shit kicking as Bock punches, chokes, kicks and dismantles poor Jerry.

He manages to kick out of a pinball at 2. 5 minutes gone and Lawler hasn't had a single offensive move on Bock. He hasn't had the chance to, Bock is on a mission to destroy him and don't let up. Just as Bock bends down though over him, Jerry nuts him in the old gonads roud

Bet that felt good. Don't rub em Bock, count em ~~~~!!!

Crowd go ape as they sense a Lawler comeback now, finally. He gets up and starts pounding away at Bock with dome of his own heavy punches right to the face.

Hey Bock, how do you like it Son?????

Bock starts to beg off but Lawler is obviously having none of it and continues to punch and kick him in the corner. Bock is dazed and confused now as he takes a wild swing at Jerry but misses by a mile. Lawler nails him with some great looking boxing esque left handers before sending him down to the mat with s right.

He starts choking Bock with his own towell as the ref tries to pull him back. Lawler stamps on his head and punches him some more before hitting a PILEDRIVER!!!! He covers......but Bock gets a lucky foot on the ropes. Lawler hits a very nasty looking knee right to the back of Bock's head to signify "This shit ain't over yet".

Bock rolls to the outside and the ref, Lawler and the crowd start counting him out in unison. He gets back in the hits Lawler in the midriff with a punch and now it's Bock back on offense. He's right back where he started as he gives Lawler s punch with such thunder, it knocks him flying down to the mat and busts him open. So Bock kicks him full force right in the face for good measure. He sends Lawler to the outside and dumps him on the timers table. He does it s second time as Lawler is now heavily bleeding from his right eye as Bock leaves him and gets back in the ring.

Lawler is trying to get up but Bock slams him into some chairs. He continues to punch him to death. He sends him back into the ring........then immediately sends him flying over the top rope and back to the outside.

Fuck Bock has been an absolute animal throughout this match.

Bock goes out and slams Jerry's face off the top of s rope stand. Lawler selling here is really tremendous. It was a brutal spot considering the state of Lawler's eye at this point. Lawler is a mess but Bock couldn't give two shits and continues to pound on Lawler with right hands and kicks. Bock tries for a PILEDRIVER, but Lawler reverses it and dumps him backwards into the corner straight into the referee.

Ref bump ~~~!!!!

Jimmy Hart them comes running in and nails Jerry in the back of the head with an object and flattens Lawler. Bock goes for a bridge pin but the ref can just about make a count.....1, 2....LAWLER KICKS OUT :fuckyeah

Bock starts punching him again but this time; Lawler is having none of it. He's like "Yeah, that all you got you SOB". Straps come down and he starts giving Bock a heavy dose of his own medicine by landing heavy punch after heavy punch as the crowd shout at every punch landed.

Crowd is loving this as Lawler continues to dish out his revenge after all the shit he's took in the match. Bock takes some great bumps and Lawler is so great at a comeback. It takes three flying fist drops off the top rope for Lawler to get the pinfall and to finally finish Bock off.

:done

What a fucking match. Lawler took an absolute shit kicking here but kept hanging in there best he could. His selling was as always fantastic as he sold his eye and getting best up as bad as he did. Bock though was equally as great as the sadistic mofo who was intent on destroying and punishing Lawler throughout. He just wouldn't stop and even the ref had to hold him back. Even I wanted to go back in time and tell him to back the fuck off Lawler.

Lawler's comeback of course ruled and i liked what it took to finally pin Bock at the end. Great, great match and a special look at Bockwinkel being a vicious bastard.

HIGHLY recommended.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Terry Gordy vs Hacksaw Duggan (Mid South 08/03/1986)*

Power. Hoss. Slugfest. No fucks given. Two former best friends.

All applies.

This starts out with a countdown until the bell rings and then Gordy goes straight for Duggan and starts unloading some heavy punches. Duggan quickly reverses one and sends Gordy over for a hip toss. He sets up for a spear but wisely, Gordy bails to the outside. They do the old running shoulder block to each other and neither of them are budging.

Gordy puts Duggan in a headlock, but Duggan bounces off the ropes and sends Gordy flying out the ring with a massive shoulder tackle. Back in the ring and they both run the ropes and it's Duggan who wins as he hits a crossbody on Gordy and gets a 2 count. He follows up with punches and a side headlock.

Make no mistake, Duggan wants the championship here. Gordy gets out the hold and unloads some right hands and delivers an elbow. Both back up and Duggan sends Gordy over his head and senses he can try and finish him. He runs at Gordy with a running spear but Gordy moves out the way and Duggan crashes into the turnbuckle.

Gordy promptly applies the Oriental Sleeper, but Duggan reaches around and rakes the eyes. Duggan misses a kneedrop Gordy goes straight for the kill and wraps the leg around the post and applies the figure-4. 

Back from a break and Gordy continues to work on Duggan's leg. Duggan does a one-legged sunset flip!! :done Excellent selling of the leg. He gets a 2 count nearfall.

Gordy scoop slams Duggan to the mat but misses a kneedrop attempt. Now it's payback time as Duggan drags Gordy's leg and slams it against the post. Duggan can almost taste the title now as he starts unloading punches to Gordy. 

Gordy manages though to nail a piledriver but Duggan powers out of a cover. He starts fighting back but is quickly met with a big boot to the face.

Gordy hits his Asiatic Spike into the Oriental Sleeper, but Duggan isn't dead yet. The TV time is running out as they are about to go off the air and Duggan starts rallying with his trademark three point stance and the crowd fire up even more as they sense Duggan could actually win the title here. Gordy though as his sleeper locked in as Duggan struggles to find a way out.

Duggan runs at Gordy and they both crash into each other and they're both now down on the mat. Duggan esp is just spent here with exhaustion. Gordy is up and goes to the top turnbuckle, but Duggan meets him and slams him over and down. Duggan though is fucked and can hardly stand so he can't immediately capitalise. He finds the energy to start punching but Gordy puts him back into a sleeper and Duggan is really fading now. Only a minute left of TV time now too.

Both back up and Duggan hits Gordy with a powerful clothesline and starts firing up. He nails Gordy with punch after punch and he's in full control.........

BUT WE'RE OUT OF TIME~~~~~!!!!!!

:hutz

Luckily, the next week they show the closing moments of the match.

Phew.

Buddy Roberts saving the match for Gordy thus triggering the DQ. DiBiase runs in, in a mask saves the day.

Yeah, kinda shitty finish after all of that. But it was an excellent big ass hoss battle with both of them giving no quarter and hitting each other with everything they have. Just two big tough bastards giving it all and beating each other up. Duggan was again great here as the fired up babyface going for the title. His comebacks were spot on and it's always so good to see Duggan in this setting as he's perfectly at home.

Really good match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW Clash of the Champions 29)*

Holy fuck, I remember this match being great, but :done Vader is the ultimate monster heel and Dustin as the ultimate fighting babyface who goes toe to toe with the Mastadon.

What time is it? :Vader time

Vader immediatly gets Dustin in the corner and gives him one hell of a stiff punch to the face to already set the tone. They lock up and again, they're back in the corner as Vader lands a kidney punch and another heavy club to the face and starts trash talking Dustin.

"This ain't no kids party" :Vader

Vader SPITS RIGHT IN DUSTIN'S FACE ~~~~!!!!

Dustin has that "Oh you just not did do that" look as he wipes the spit off his face. Dustin flies straight at Vader and takes him out with an awesome takedown and starts wailing at him with punch after punch.

Vader is flat on the mat and Dustin continues to swing left and rights and won't let up as the crowd go ape. He rope Vader's mask off and continues to pound on him with reckless abandon. Fuck this is already great. Vader doesn't quite know what hit him as Dustin swings him off the ropes. Vader tries clotheslining him, but misses twice and Dustin flies at him with a crossbody and gets a 2 count nearfall.

Dustin isn't letting up though as he clotheslines Vader over the top rope to the outside. Vader is shellshocked and trying to get his bearings as Dustin goes out and starts landing punches again.

Love Dustin's strategy here; Don't let Vader rest up, just keep on him and he does and he's so fired up, every punch looks great.

Dustin thinks fuck it and knocks Race down for good measure too. Vader staggers back in the ring. He just about manages to get back in as Dustin runs straight for him and goes back to landing offense with his punches. He knows he's got Vader where he wants him and won't stop.

He gets him in the corner and hits a fast flurry of punches as he gives Vader a heavy taste of his own medicine. Vader is in real trouble here as Dustin has been fucking relentless.

Dustin SUPLEXES VADER ~~~~~~!!!!!!!

Before he can go for a pin or a follow up, Vader wisely rolls to the outside to try and find out what planet he's still on. He must be thinking what have I got myself into, let alone Dustin. Back in the ring and just as Dustin runs at Vader, he's met with a huge Vader body check, which takes him straight down.

Ohhhhhh shit. Now the bear is coming back and is as mad as he's going to be.

Vader gets him in his favourite corner and you know the drill by now; Vader unloads stiff ass strikes to Dustin's head. Always love the direct camera angle when Vader is mercilessly pummeling someone. Rhodes is the one on serious trouble now. Vader sends him into the corner and tries to body splash him, but Dustin moves and rolls Vader up for a pinfall.....1, 2.....Vader kicks out.

Vader gives Dustin ONE HELL OF A FUCKING RIGHT HAND. Dustin did a spin in the air before landing on the mat. Fuck.

Vader sends him into the corner and runs to body splash him again, but Dustin CATCHES HIM AND DELIVERS A BODY SLAMS TO THE MAT!!!

Holy fuck was this an awesome spot. You certainly need to see it.

He's can't cover Vader yet though so he nails him with a dropkick and starts pounding on Vader with more punches. The ref tries to stop him but he slaps the ref away. He goes for his patented Bulldog, but Vader picks him up and dumps him over the top rope. Another awesome counter and bump.

Back in the ring and Vader can smell a kill here as he dumps Dustin hard down with a clubbing clothesline. Vader goes to the middle turnbuckle and signals for the Vader bomb. He hits it and covers but Dustin's foot is on the rope.

Vader is fucking great here as he shouts at the ref to "Count it" as he's punting poor Dustin in the head. Vader hits the Vader bomb again but again, Dustin kicks out. Dustin is just spent here and can barley stand as Vader is pummeling him in the corner.

Dustin gets the crowd behind him as he tries to get up. Vader picks him up and dumps him down. Another tremendous spot here as Vader attempts to jump off the top rope, but is met by Dustin, who flips him over. Great hope spot by Dustin.

He gets straight on Vader and starts a comeback by running at Vader with punches, but the big man won't go down. Vader is wobbling though so Dustin goes to top rope and hits Vader with a flying lariat and gets a close 2 count.

What a match.

Dustin hits Vader with a middle turnbuckle DDT, which geys another 2 count. Dustin now more than senses he can finish the monster off as he hits the BULLDOG!!!

He gets a one count but pulls away as Harley Race attempts to get in the ring. Vader runs at Dustin and ends up slobbering him and sending Race out at the same time.

Damn it, this was Dustin's chance. Vader picks him up and sends him flat on his face with the Glam Slam and gets the three count and the win. Hacksaw Duggan saves Dustin from the post-match beatdown by Race/Vader afterwards.

Well, what a fucking match and performances by both. Vader was the ultimate monster heel with his as usual crushing offense, trash talking and dealing punishment to Dustin. But he gave Rhodes a lot and Dustin was equally great as the fighting babyface who not only hangs in there but fully takes it Vader at every opportunity. He's just tremendous as the fired up babyface with his high energy and offense. The way he catches Vader here is excellent and he times his hope spots perfectly.

No real moments of downtime either and is fully sction packed, whilst telling a fantastic story. Perfect big bad bully monster vs energetic fired up babyface match.

Wonderful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock/Benoit from Fully Loaded 2000.

Really enjoyed this.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That Henry/Punk write-up brings me great flashbacks of Henry's amazing trash talk. Hall of Pain Mark Henry was seriously so great and refreshing.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

So glad I only paid £3 for the IYH Revenge of the Taker & A Cold Day in Hell set.

Will edit in my thoughts as I go along.

Sultan v Flash Funk - garbage like the majority of Free for All matches. 

LOD v Owen/Bulldog - decent hard hitting match, nothing spectacular though. 

Savio v Rock - funny seeing Rock get no reaction. He was so trash his first year. 

Rockabilly v Jesse James - Trash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*William Regal vs Tommy Dreamer (WWEECW 08/11/2009*

Well here's a match that was sorta out of left field in my random viewing, but fuck it it's Regal, so.

Man, this was a ton of fun inside 10 minutes. Regal's main gameplan is to go after the bandaged arm of Dreamer. He slams it off the post and sets to work on breaking and bending it every way possible. He even tries to bite the tape off Dreamers' arm. Dreamer looks to reverse this by arm dragging Regal a couple of times but when he runs at him in the corner, he's met with Regal's boot in his face.

Regal goes straight back to the arm of Dreamer and he just tears away at it knowing he's got plenty of ways up his sleeve to destroy it.

Dreamer actually sells the arm pretty damn well too. He does use his good right arm most of the time and I'm like :wow He also times his comeback spots well too. He went for a DDT, only for Regal to reverse it, but Tommy still manages to just out a spinebuster. Liked his use of offense here too and his overall timing.

Finish is good to as Dreamer is in control, finally getting the advantage, but Regal rolls to the outside onto the apron, grabs Dreamers' bad arm and slams it against the ropes, while Dreamer staggers back, Regal gets into the ring and hits the running knee right on the damaged arm.

Match was fun with great work from Regal and Dreamer pulling out a pretty good performance here too. Good way to spend 8 or so minutes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zrc said:


> So glad I only paid £3 for the IYH Revenge of the Taker & A Cold Day in Hell set.
> 
> Will edit in my thoughts as I go along.
> 
> ...


Worth the £3 for the epic Taker/Foley match :trips5. My fav out of all their matches.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Worth the £3 for the epic Taker/Foley match :trips5. My fav out of all their matches.


Watching that match right now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> *William Regal vs Tommy Dreamer (WWEECW 08/11/2009*
> 
> Well here's a match that was sorta out of left field in my random viewing, but fuck it it's Regal, so.
> 
> ...


Ahhh ECW 09. Brings back memories of when I watched and reviewed everything of interest that year, including that match: 

William Regal Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 11/08/2009

Regal is announced as the #1 contender to the ECW title before this match. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL :mark:. But for now he has to face Dreamer.

Dreamer's left arm is taped up after the extreme rules match last week. Regal goes after it immediately, and Dreamer is all "YOU GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY ARM YOU ENGLISH CUNT!" and just starts wailing on Regal to keep him away from the arm for as long as possible.

Of course it isn't long before Regal does get hold of that bad arm, and he goes to work on it like only Regal can . He tries to take the bandage or whatever off of his arm, but can't quite get it so he even tries BITING it off :lmao. Odd to see Dreamer's OPPONENT being the one trying to eat mid match .

God, I still loath that "E C W" chest bump thing Dreamer does. He looks like he doesn't give a fuck about it, then he waddles along to do a "running" dropkick and fuck me I think I could move faster in my sleep.

KNEE TREMBLER~! Regal gets the win, then locks in the Regal Stretch to make an example out of Dreamer. Match is decent.

Rating: **


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea Regal of course led the whole thing, but Dreamer sold his arm ok and wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Granted I havnt seen hardly much of Dreamer, but the match was fun enough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dreamer had a handful of good performances during his ECW 09 run, but overall I find him to be rather shitty and lazy. Any time he was in the ring with Christian, Regal or Swagger though he usually put some effort into it.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Was that the time Regal lost to Christian in seconds?


Edit- Taker/Mankind & Bret/Austin saved Revenge of the Taker from being a total dud. 

Not expecting much from A Cold Day in Hell but I shall watch it next. 

Then for the weekend I got Summerslam 98, 99, Fully Loaded 99 & Unforgiven 99.


Edit again - Totally forgot how much they shilled the Superstar Line :lmao.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zrc said:


> Was that the time Regal lost to Christian in seconds?
> 
> 
> Edit- Taker/Mankind & Bret/Austin saved Revenge of the Taker from being a total dud.
> ...


A Cold Day in Hell sucks... except for THAT MATCH. Vader/Shamrock. Holy fooking :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Benoit/HHH from No Mercy 2000 was excellent. HHH did some really great knee work in the first 5 minutes and it does look good. Likewise, Benoit follows up with some equally as good arm work on HHH and we end up with a compelling heel/face match up. Yeah one again we get a fuckery finish with Steph running in but it was still a very enjoyable match with fine work by both. Top limb work and selling and it was nice to see a mostly scientific wrestling match but with the usual big spots thrown in too. Crowd were with HHH as the face here too in his spots and comebacks.

Top match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Benoit/HHH from No Mercy 2000 was excellent. HHH did some really great knee work in the first 5 minutes and it does look good. Likewise, Benoit follows up with some equally as good arm work on HHH and we end up with a compelling heel/face match up. Yeah one again we get a fuckery finish with Steph running in but it was still a very enjoyable match with fine work by both. Top limb work and selling and it was nice to see a mostly scientific wrestling match but with the usual big spots thrown in too. Crowd were with HHH as the face here too in his spots and comebacks.
> 
> Top match.


I don't think we could be further apart on this match lol...

*Triple H Vs Chris Benoit*

BENOIT HEADBUTTED STEPHANIE! JUST WHAT IS THIS GUY CAPABLE OF? Oh yeah...

Only 2 matches left on the card, and this is one of them. WAI NO UNDERRTEKER? Seriously... where was he? I am not recalling him being "taken out" at this point in time. Where is Kane too for that matter? Naked fucking Mideon gets a title match and Undertaker & Kane miss the show? BULLSHIT.

HHH starts the match trying to "out wrestle" Benoit by doing some leg work. Looks good and shit but... doesn't lead to anything... and doesn't help HHH in the slightest. Benoit on the other hand works over the arm and shoulder, which DOES help him. But HHH makes a comeback and ignores it all anyway. Big reverse suplex AND a fucking superplex? With a "bad" arm? Bullshit.

In the end Stephanie (fap fap) is the one that is the difference maker and helps HHH win. TAKE THAT, POINTLESS LEG WORK!

This is eh. HHH stuff at the start is meaningless. Benoit control stuff is great, but HHH's lack of fucking selling makes that meaningless. Stephanie showing up at the end to help HHH win makes, well, everything meaningless. Not a fan.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brock said:


> Benoit/HHH from No Mercy 2000 was excellent. HHH did some really great knee work in the first 5 minutes and it does look good. Likewise, Benoit follows up with some equally as good arm work on HHH and we end up with a compelling heel/face match up. Yeah one again we get a fuckery finish with Steph running in but it was still a very enjoyable match with fine work by both. Top limb work and selling and it was nice to see a mostly scientific wrestling match but with the usual big spots thrown in too. Crowd were with HHH as the face here too in his spots and comebacks.
> 
> Top match.





Emperor Palpatine said:


> I don't think we could be further apart on this match lol...
> 
> *Triple H Vs Chris Benoit*
> 
> ...



Well, I'm going to have to rewatch this match, I remember it being fine but nothing too special; that being said, I love a ton of HHH's work from around this period, so I may like it more than I remember. Seeing two totally opposite approaches to it really lends itself to curiosity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:cal :mj2

Tell me you like the Cactus/HHH street fight from Raw '97 at least. Cos I've just watched that and enjoyed the fuck out of it


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> I don't think we could be further apart on this match lol...
> 
> *Triple H Vs Chris Benoit*
> 
> ...


Undertaker took time off to be with his sick friend (the dying Yokozuna) he wasn't seen throughout October, his final appearance before returning in November was the Raw after Unforgiven talking to Austin backstage. 

As for Kane it wasn't uncommon for him to miss pay per views in 2000. He wasn't at Backlash, Judgement Day or Fully Loaded that year either.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:done Holy fuck Jericho/Rey at the Bash is still magnificent. Jericho's bastard heel character work in the first half of the match is great. There's some special spots here too like one particular codebreaker :mark: and some wonderful counters and offense by Rey. It's a roller coaster where Jericho is in control but Rey just keeps coming back with his high energy and high risk offense. Great transitions throughout like the Boston crab spots. You get pretty much everything here and it all works to perfection. 

Love the finish too with the double masks.

One of the best matches in either guy's catalogue and in WWE in general. A fantastic piece of work.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts on Edge/Michaels from Royal Rumble '05? Watched it again tonight and really liked it. Didn't quite remember that Edge won so I was happy to see him get the rub after Michaels kicked out of the spear (legit shocked me) and got out of edgecator. It's pretty one-sided but in a good way I think. Good selling from HBK late in the match too. 

The entirety of the PPV felt like a coming out party for Edge tbh. Gets a win over Shawn, lasts 40 minutes in the Rumble, and has some key eliminations. Such a natural progression into that that MITB win at Mania. Really cool to look back and see.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Corey said:


> Thoughts on Edge/Michaels from Royal Rumble '05? Watched it again tonight and really liked it. Didn't quite remember that Edge won so I was happy to see him get the rub after Michaels kicked out of the spear (legit shocked me) and got out of edgecator. It's pretty one-sided but in a good way I think. Good selling from HBK late in the match too.
> 
> The entirety of the PPV felt like a coming out party for Edge tbh. Gets a win over Shawn, lasts 40 minutes in the Rumble, and has some key eliminations. Such a natural progression into that that MITB win at Mania. Really cool to look back and see.


I liked their Street fight on Raw in 2005 and the one in 2007 and yeah I remember Edge was on the cusp of greatness in 2005


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips vs Benoit totally sucks. The only time their matches might have not sucked was the iron man, but that's been years for me to know for sure.

Edge in 2005? MATT FREAKIN HARDY. Now I'm on cloud nine thinking about that stuff.


----------



## WorldClass (Oct 6, 2017)

Yeah I watched the Iron Man match between HHH and Chris Benoit a couple of weeks ago they had a solid build in the match that sold the ending for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Memphis 03/23/1987) (Texas Death Match)*

Yeah baby, Jerry and Bam Bam as a team.

Oh, I'll take this opportunity to pester @seabs to add a Lawler smiley again :cozy : jerry










This starts out with Bigelow throwing some steel steps into the ring. Yeah he isn't messing about with cartwheels on this one. He's just running around the ring with furious anger wanting to seemingly kill Rich/Idol, who don't want any of it and refuse to enter the ring. Bogelow even throws the ref down as he's so pissrd and wants to get on with wrecking shit :lol

The bell finally rings and Lawler/Bam Bam go right ahead and begin to beat the crap out of Rich and Idol. Lawler and Idol are out in the arena furiously brawling with one another whilst Bam Bam/Rich are doing their own thing. Idol grabs a 2x4 and hits Jerry with it, but Bigelow comes running over and helps him out. Lawler/Rich continue to brawl as Lawler sends Rich's head into the ring post.

Meanwhile, Bam Bam is out chasing Idol, who doesn't want anything of him. Bigelow is just a big bad bear wanting to kill him. Idol hits Bigelow with the 2x4, but Bam Bam no sells it in a beat spot and just goes 'Nope, that shit ain't gonna work with me'. Idol runs back into the ring bit as soon as he turns around, he's met with one of Lawler's infamous right hands.

So Bigelow turns his attention to Rich in the corner. Man, he just wants to fight here and gives zero fucks. Lawler/Bigelow continue to kick ass until Idol low blows Lawler

'Dont rub em Son, count em'.

Idol/Rich then double team on Bigelow and Idol low blows Bigelow too. The heels are now in control as Lawler is down as he's being kicked to death by Idol. Rich tries to hit Bigelow, but Bam Bam is having none of it and growls at him, so he low blows him yet sgain. Meanwhile Lawler is being choked out by Idol on the outside by an extension cord.

Rich works on Bigelow's mid section with a series of big kicks, whilst Idol dumps Lawler on some steps on the outside. Yeah, the heels are in control and they're loving it. Idol rams Lawler's head straight into the ring bell then takes it into the ring hits Bigelow with it. Idol continues to attack Lawler and sends him over the guardrail whilst Bigelow is dead on the mat in the ring.

Bigelow manages to hit a dropkick on Rich, who sells it brilliantly. Idol is punching Lawler but Lawler now is not feeling anything.

STRAPS ARE DOWN ~~~~~!!!!!

Lawler starts getting his long awaited revenge and lands a series of heavy punches on Idol. All 4 men ate now finally in the ring and Bigelow/Jerry ate kicking the shit out of them both. Idol gets tied up in the ropes as Lawler jumps off the top turnbuckle and nails Rich with a right hand.

This is so fucking great; Idol is still tied up in the ropes and is forced to watch as Bigelow/Lawler drag Rich by both of his legs and they send him BALLS FIRST into the ringpost.

OOOOOOOUUUUUCCCCCHHHH!!!!!

Lawler pins him for the fall. Rich gets counted out and this one is over.

Post-match Bam Bam goes POSTAL again and drags Rich to the post again. He throws ring steps and then almost gets the ref too. Bigelow isn't satisfied until he fucking kills Rich.

Fuck, Lawler/Bigelow were a fucking awesome team. This match was a whole heap of fun and violence. Bigelow was like a wild, untamed animal throughout and had a sole mission of killing Idol/Rich. Great brawling and a proper finish too. Crowd as usual in the Mid South were super hot. I just love the crowds and one other thing too; Lance Russell. He's just so good on commentary and adds an extra element and enjoyment to these matches.

Another HIGHLY enjoyable match that is certainly recommend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now they're a team :monkey

What. A. World.

smiley is great, too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill watch Funk again soon as an excuse to pester @seabs again to add : funk










:cozy

ops just have


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Make the code for Funk :forever :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you @seabs for adding :funk and :jerry :yay2


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Enjoyed Fully Loaded 99. Probably cause I never saw it before. Austin/Taker was trash as expected though. 

Unforgiven 99 was enjoyable, though some of it was funny for the wrong reasons (Snow/Boss Man & Luna/Ivory). Main event was good, just a shame Taker got replaced with a past it Bulldog.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (WrestleMania 7)*

:done

I fucking love this match. It's the most sports entertainment match ever. It's one big melodrama and it's still as special today as it was 26 damn years ago.

The tone is set by Warrior NOT running at 150mph down the isle. Even he knows how serious this shit is, but of course he's got all the energy he's always had. He even has his and savage's faces on his kneepads to further put over how important this match is.

What follows is some of the greatest entertainment, storytelling, drama, emotion and epicness you'll ever experience in a WWF ring.

Warrior holds his end of the bargain up but this is mostly the Randy Savage show. His selling, reactions, timing. When he spits at Warrior and one spot which I completely forgot about. The throat across the barricade spot that he used to injure Steamboat a few years prior. A wonderful callback and it's a great detail. Savage fought exactly like a man who's career was on the line and he was perfect in putting that fact over. His character work was so spot on here and he made use of any limitations Warrior had and bumped all over the place. He was tremendous in this.

This was of course one of Warrior's best performances too. Which yeah I know isn't exactly the same as saying it's one of Randy's, but he told the perfect story from his point of view. That bit where he caught Savage, stood him up and Arrograntly slapped him across the face was great. Or when Savage kicked out of the gorilla press and Warrior started looking up and asking the 'gods' for guidance.

Yeah it's a hokey wrestling spot but fuck it, I don't care, I loved it then and I loved it now. We all knew he was a crazy bloke who talked about space and gods and fuck knows what else. It just felt, normal. I never really minded the multiple elbow drops either and Warrior kicking out like he did. There'd probably be uproar if that happened at WM34 lol but I had no real issue with it.

I used to have a problem with the way Warrior pinned him with one foot, but I don't mind it as much now. The whole angle/match is one of the greatest moments in WWF history and it was the perfect blend of everything that emcapulstrs wrestling and why we all love it so much.

Of course, this is all before the real emotion with Randy/Liz reuniting and all that to really put the emotional icing on the cake.

Stunning.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Trish vs Stephanie was better than it had any right being. Apart from the ending (NWO01).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Dick Murdoch vs Butch Reed (Mid-South 09/22/1985)*

Having not really seen much of either, this was a great match. Loved seeing Reed use his power here and even him cranking on a side headlock was entertaining to watch. Then we get some great arm work by Dick, who I also really enjoyed in the match, particularly his selling which I thought was fantastic. They get into a very heated match after a while with both of them beating the crap out of each other with nasty holds and punches throughout. Murdock does do a great PILEDRIVER and he hits Reed with one here. They trade some pretty heavy looking punches too and it's all out of control. They both lay into each other and Dick's knee gets fucked up, which he sells and continues to sell to the finish. Some wonderful looking punches in this too as you'd probably expect. There's a tremendous sense of struggle as they both use various ways to get in control and destroy the other.

The great thing about that Reed's extended side headlock is that it looks like he is going to break Murdoch's neck with how snug he's got it on. There's also a great spot where Reed springboards over Murdock and immeditaly punches him as he lands and Dick sells it so well and just topples to the outside.

Near the end Murdoch tries a bodyslam, but his knee is so fucked they both topple over the top rope and we end up with a double countout.

Reed shoves the ref as he is trying to give Murdoch the belt. He punches Murdoch and throws him into the belt, then he lays out the ref. They finally manage to break it up and Reed cuts a promo and we get another brawl!!! The brawl after the match is like a match in itself. 

This certainly sets up a rematch which I know they have a month after this that I'm really looking forward to watching now. This was a fucking tremendous match. It had a great, slow burning first portion where Reed had an extended headlock sequence until Murdoch started working on his arm, which looked excellent. He was twisting it, bending it, stretching it, stamping on it. It was very compelling to watch it unfold and a perfect example on how to work an arm.

They both sold well here too, particularly Murdoch and there's a fantastic bit in the match where they both just collapse because they're both fucked from exhaustion. I love how it starts with holds them it descends into a fight amd a wild brawl, with great work from both of them.

This match is vicious and a heated struggle throughout. Every punch, every submission, it's an intense as it gets.

Yeah, real good shit and I can't wait to see if the rematch is better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Arn Anderson vs Alex Wright (WCW Slamboree 1995)*

Arn went out of his way to put Wright over in defeat. They worked a pretty smart veteran/new guy match, with Arm giving Wright quite a bit of offense before eventually taking over in the last quarter, starting with a good 'ol spinebuster. Match told a fine story in the time it was given and credit to Arn in working this sort of match with Wright. The main basis of it was Wright looked to have Arn's number with various counters and a headlock sequence and even briefly working on his arm. Until Arn used his experience to finally teach the kid who's the guy around here.

Oh and it featured one of the greatest finishes EVER!!!!!










:done

Once again that finish

:done

Good match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Real Americans vs Sheamus & Christian (WWE Monday Night RAW 02/10/2014)*

This is a excellent tag team match. Christian has an excellent FIP segment and there's a great spot where he tries to get the tag but gets hits with the Cesaro swing. There's an amazing flapjack lift to european uppercut. Its easy to forget how excellent the Cesaro and Swagger team were and they do a super job here cutting the ring in half and making Christian's hot tag all the sweeter. The double stomp of Cesaro was brutal. Just a highly enjoyable, stiff tag team match. Hot crowd throughout too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Real Americans vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes (WWE Main Event 03/18/2014)*

Been wanting to get around to watching this for a while and boy i'm glad I did. Another excellent tag team match from Cesaro/Swagger and Goldust showed certainly in this mstch that he was well and truly back. Always loved how he and Cody worked together and this is another top tag match for both teams. It remains at a nice place throughout and both Goldust and Cody had very good spells as the FIP. The match was also another fine example of how cohesive of a unit the Real Americans were. Both in their double teaming and in bumping for the faces.

Another hugely enjoyable match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & The Usos (WWE Monday Night RAW 11/18/2013)

Fuck this was good. The first half plus is about The Shield in control and it's great. Lots of quick tags in and out and they each keep the faces down and work them over until Bryan gets the hot tag. The Shield just kept tagging each other in for the first several minutes, not allowing the Wyatt Family a sniff. They eventually do tag the Wyatts and they each set about dismantling the faces. Bryan gets the hot tag and the babyface get they chance to shine, with Punk tagging in and the usos coming in with their high flying offense. Great storytelling and the match was kept at a very quick pace. Just a classic heel in control until babyface get their chance tag match and it was very enjoyable indeed.

Bryan/Punk even hit the Hart Attack finisher here too :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So, I got bored and did some reading. There's a notorious Hollywood gossip blog (seemingly accurate with their news) that's breaking two interesting items:

1) Daniel Bryan is cleared and will return

2) Paige failed a 3rd wellness test and this is a cover-up

:hmmm




Brock said:


> *Real Americans vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes (WWE Main Event 03/18/2014)*
> 
> Been wanting to get around to watching this for a while and boy i'm glad I did. Another excellent tag team match from Cesaro/Swagger and Goldust showed certainly in this mstch that he was well and truly back. Always loved how he and Cody worked together and this is another top tag match for both teams. It remains at a nice place throughout and both Goldust and Cody had very good spells as the FIP. The match was also another fine example of how cohesive of a unit the Real Americans were. Both in their double teaming and in bumping for the faces.
> 
> Another hugely enjoyable match.


One of my favourites from the Real Americans run!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> So, I got bored and did some reading. There's a notorious Hollywood gossip blog (seemingly accurate with their news) that's breaking two interesting items:
> 
> 1) Daniel Bryan is cleared and will return


Rah... don't fucking do this to me. I'm going to the Rumble and I don't wanna be disappointed when Bryan _doesn't_ come out at number 30 and it's like, Dolph fucking Ziggler or something. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rockers vs. Powers of Pain (MSG 1/15/90)*

:banderas I fucking loooooooove this match.

Should have been on a PPV somewhere. It's POP's best match and one of the Rockers' best. They bump wonderfully here, the POP are great on offense too, esp Warlord, who looks good throwing the smaller guys around and this formula suits them perfectly and the rockers make them look great. Jannetty in particular is a bumping machine, including this gem;










An excellent tag match that i can't recommend highly enough. Like the Twin Towers/Rockers WM 5 match formula, but better IMO. Really us one of WWF's diamond tag matches and a huge personal favorite. The classic big man/little man match that's very enjoyable. Fuck the Rockers were really great.

Now I'm in a mood for more Rockers tags.

*Mr. Perfect vs Tito Santana (WWF Saturday Night's Main Event 07/28/1990)*

Man, the crowd for this was HOT. Reminded me of a NWA/WCW crowd. Love this match. One of the best SNME matches for sure.

Hennig of course continues to bump like a loon here and the match is so fast paced. It's a heavy sprint throughout with some tremendous nearfalls and finishing stretch. The false finishes were great and they did a lot to get the crowd even more pumped up. Earl fucking Hebner got annoying again tho here as he got bumped and it forced a ref change. No idea if the bump was legit from the way Earl sold it.

A super match. Hennig had a good heat segment and Santana was good as a fired up babyface. Someone elsewhere described it as a fast version of some of the modern era WWE main events and that's not far off a good description of it. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jerry Lawler vs Dory Funk Jr. (Memphis 03/30/1981)*

:jerry

:done This match is sandwiched between the two Lawler/Terry Funk classics, so it's Funk Jr's turn to try Jerry for size. With this and the two Terry matches, it's a fantastic trio involving the three of them.

Worth noting that Jimmy Hart is suspended above the ring in a harness for this one. I still expect some shenanigans from him at some point.

I say it ever time but I just fucking love these old school crowds. The heat is always off the charts for matches like this. Jimmy Hart is certainly a sight dangling back and forth in his harness :lol

Love how this starts out with Funk putting Lawler in a very stiff looking headlock. He just cranks the shit out of it and I love the struggle it takes to lift Lawler over to keep the pressure on. Same when Jerry reverses it into an armbar. Funk gets Jerry in the corner and powders him with heavy European uppercuts, before dumping him on the mat and into an armbar of his own. He buries Lawler's head in the mat as he stretches the shit out of his arm.

Laser manages to give Funk one of his patented right handers to briefly bring him to his knees, but Funk goes dirty and pulls on Lawler's hair and goes back to the armbar. He powders Jerry with some more European uppercuts before dumping him through the ropes onto the outside and slamming Lawler's head off a table a couple of times.

It's already heating up.

Funk gets a chair but the ref grabs it off him so Funk says fuck this and again slams Lawler's head off the same table. Lawler is staggering and doesn't know where he is as Funk grabs him by his hair and pulls him back into the ring. Lawler seems to have a chain his hand though now, but Funk geys him back in the corner and peppers him with some stiff uppercuts that nearly take Lawler's head off. Funk grabs the chain and stashes it in his trunks for later no doubt.

It's been pretty much all Funk here as he suplexes Lawler for a 2 count. Lawler starts a comeback in the best way he knows how; punch the shit out of your opponent. Funk staggers and falls down from one of these and bails to the outside. Lawler follows suit, grabs something and chases Funk all through the crowd. Slight clip in the video here as Lawler is now back in the ring, closely followed by Funk. Funk is stalking now as Lawler knows he's there for the taking. But Funk gets him in the corner again and starts pounding him in the mid section and stiffing him with more big uppercuts. Lawler starts fighting back with his own supply of punches and one sends Funk down.

Fuck, I know it's said enough times but good golly Lawler can throw a mean punch. :jerry

Funk again bails to the outside but Jerry is right there too and won't let him rest as he continues to lay punches into him and dumps him off the table. Funk gets back in the ring but is immediately met with a flurry of Lawler right hands. Funk backs off as the ref tries to get some calm here but Lawler is having none of it and continues to punch the shit out of Funk. Just as the ref is trying to pull Lawler off of Funk, Funk low blows Jerry.

:tenay

"Don't rub em sunshine, count em'.

Funk does the same fucking thing again as the ref is trying to separate them in the corner. He pins Lawler but can only get a 2 count. Funk misses with an elbow and with a wild swing at Jerry, who ducks and hits Funk with his own special punches.

STRAPS ARE DOWN ~~~!!!!! :jerry

Jerry takes some revenge as he kicks Funk in the mid section (BALLS). Lawler is really pasting him now but Funk sends him into the ref, who falls to the mat. Jimmy Hart takes this opportunity to throw down a chain to Funk, who nails Lawler right in the head with it. He drags the ref over and covers Lawler, hiding his one hand with the chain behind his back, but Jerry kicks out!!!!!

Funk starts choking Lawler with the chain and covers him again but again Lawler kicks out. Finally the ref notices the chain and pulls it from him. As he's doing that, Lawler geys one of his own and plants it straight off Funk's noggin. He picks him up and does it again and again. The ref tries to gran this chain off of Lawler, who grabs him and flings him accross the ring. Funk manages to roll Lawler up and pin him, but just as the ref counts to 2, he notices Funk's feet are on the ropes and throws him off Lawler. So Funk snaps and lays the ref out with a forearm.

The ref doesn't deserve all this shit he's got in this match :armfold :lol

Lawler and Funk start slogging it out with each other now as the ref calls for the bell. Funk/Lawler continue to brawl as it's announced that Funk has been DQ'd. Jimmy Hart gets down from his harness and runs at Lawler, who moves and Jimmy takes a big bump onto the turnbuckle. Lawler doesn't give a fuck as he punches both Jimmy and Funk out the ring.

This was fucking great. Loved the start with the headlocks/armlocks before it fully escalated into a wild ass brawl. Lawler is one of the best at taking a beating, firing up and giving his opponent a thorough shit kicking. His punches can never be overestimated just how fucking great they always are. Funk was great here too at his selling and keeping the heat on him and getting the crowd even hotter for Jerry's comeback. Awesome crowd heat throughout for this too.

Funk was excellent at using all his heel tactics at every turn and Lawler was equally great at giving Funk exactly what Funk is giving him. Instant revenge with the table spots and bringing his own chain into it. Jimmy Hart swinging above the ring was also a sight in this lol and added more levity and drama into it.

Yeah, this was tremendous.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Terry Gordy (WCCW 02/04/1983)*

This is pretty much a heel vs heel match but Flair does end up playing the default face here with the crowd on his side for this one. I thought this was a smartly worked match that only goes for about 12 minutes, so it's a short Flair one.

I thought this was a very good match. Starts out with Flair bring the aggressor as he chops Gordy, but Gordy quickly takes over and starts throwing Flair around with his power. When Flair regains control, it's via a low blow and Gordy does the old Flair flip into the turnbuckle. Flair goes for the bombs with suplexes and pulls out a Boston crab here too, not sure I've seen him do that many times.

Crowd are fully behind Flair with "Go Ric Go" chants. Flair hits Gordy with a back suplex, but Gordy reverses one into a sleeper hold and then a hard right hand sends Flair flying over the top rope. Gordy snaps Flair's head off the rope and sends him down with another hard punch. He uses his power with a delayed vertical suplex but misses with an elbow and hurts his back. Flair tries the figure-4, but inside cradle by Gordy and now backslide by Gordy gets him a 2 count. They start slugging the shit out of each other with chops and punches. Momentum back with Gordy but is hit with a lifting knee drop and Flair puts him in tne figure four to a huge pop from the crowd. Gordy escapes and goes back to punching Flair but Flair won't give up and is trying to give as good as he's getting.

There's a great visual of Flair leaping onto Gordy with a sleeper. Gordy goes to the eyes and in the criss cross across the ropes, Gordy goes crashing into the ropes and onto the mat. Flair pins him for the three count.

Thought this was a very good match that told a good story. Gordy clearly had the power advantage but Flair disn't back down and kept taking it right back to him. It was great seeing the offense Flair pulled out here too like the Boston crab and not being intimidated by Gordy. His suplexes look great and even as the defacto babyface he gave Gordy a lot.

Gordy took some great bumps here too and tried his use his power to overwhelm Flair to wear him down with his big punches. Good match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Corey said:


> Rah... don't fucking do this to me. I'm going to the Rumble and I don't wanna be disappointed when Bryan _doesn't_ come out at number 30 and it's like, Dolph fucking Ziggler or something. :lol


His betting odds just dipped from like 80/1 to 9/1...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> 2) Paige failed a 3rd wellness test and this is a cover-up


:lmao

What top flight news.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hulk Hogan vs King Harley Race (WWF MSG 06/14/87, Texas Death Match)*

Thought this was fucking tremendous. Never heard of it before until I saw it elsewhere. Hogan destroys Race here and looks great doing it. Race also bumps like crazy and it's such an enjoyable match. Hogan hits Race over the head with a chair and Race's head goes right through the seat :lol So Hogan punches Race, still with the remainder of the chair around his neck and biting his head in the process. Race ends up low blowing Hogan and starts to take over and Hogan actually sells well in the match.

Harley is great on offense with hitting Hogan with a piledriver and some headbutts amd a lovely gutwrench suplex. Hogan manages to fling Harley over the top rope and Race does a great 360 bump over it too here. This is just one gnarly brawl as Race hits Hogan with a chair. He misses a headbutt on the outside and I loved his bump off of Hogan's big boot in the ring. Hogan just nails him with a flurry of punches before Race gives Hogan a piledriver on the outside on the concrete.

Heenan gives him the Championship Belt in which he holds it high before using it as a weapon, by rammimg it into Hogan's mid section. Race comes off the top rope looking with a flying headbutt but lands instead head first on the title belt. Hogan runs around Race before smashing Harley in the face and the covers while holding the belt for the win. He nails Heenan with it too.

This was awesome. Race was great at his bumping and offense and Hogan brought it himself here too. A really great brawl.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Stan Hansen vs Terry Funk (AJPW Grand Champion Carnival I, 04/14/1983)*

:funk

:done

Holy fuck, was this pro wrestling or the remnants of a fucking horror movie. Terry Funk gives what has to be his greatest ever performance here. Love the start of this where it's Funk trying to weave and dodge Hansen and trying to hit him with the odd sly jab. Hansen does a great "Come on and hit me if you think you're hard enough" expression at Funk here and when Hansen lands a slap at Terry, he's like "Oh you didn't just do that motherfucker".

Then the match descends into a fucking massacre of epic proportions. Stan Hansen sets out to slaughter and eventually murder Terry. He kicks him I have no idea how many times in the head and already Funk's selling is off the damn charts level of greatness. Before long Funk is fully busted open and his blood is not only gushing down his face but is also smothered all over Hansen's stomach. Funk puts in one of the greatest babyface performances committed to screen here and the crowd go wild for every attempted comeback he does. He tries his best to survive this fucking monster called Stan Hansen by targeting his leg and trying to bring him down. But Stan just keeps slapping him away and punting him in the head.

Then comes one of the ultimate :jones in wrestling as Hansen unwrap the turnbuckle, wraps it around Funk's throat and literally drags him all the way back into the ring. You genuinely fear for poor Terry here as he's covered in blood and is being murdered on TV. Hansen hangs Funk over the ropes and it looks like a scene from the Devils Rejects or something. It's one hell of a sight.

Hansen even ends up throwing the ref out the ring here and carries on with the onslaught on Funk. A bloke in a shirt and trousers hits the ring and it's Dory Funk, who ends up shoving and punching Hansen right out the ring. The bell was called before this to finally signify the end of this massacre.

Holy fuck. Post-match and Terry is stumbling around half dead covered in blood, not knowing where the fuck he is or if he's even alive at this point. Words can't describe the visuals here and throughout the match and just how Funk sells, if that word even applies here, this whole battle.

Hansen is a motherfucking animal, with no regard for human life or any sacrifices and Funk is the poor bastard that has to be in the same ring with him on this day.

One of the greatest pro wrestling spectacles ever.

:funk


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs. Carlos Colon (Puerto Rico) (10/16/1982)*

I havnt watched hardly any of Colon tbh, but this match peaked my interest as it's a Flair match and it was interesting seeing him in this setting. Colon basically controls the first ten or so minutes by working the arm of Flair before it descends into a more even match with them both starting to trade blows and the match starts to heat up. Crowd is obviously pro Carlos and they fire up for everything he does on Flair. Flair hits Colon with snake eyes twice in this match too. Anyone remember him doing this move often? Did surprise me.

Colon flings Flair head first into the ring post about six times in a row, with Flair taking every shot like a true pro. Colon does a damn cartwheel as his "drop the strap" moment and fuck i did pop for that. The crowd goes APE SHIT and it's certainly a moment and the finish to the match is also a great moment for the crowd when we get a brief tease before Colon rolls up Flair.

I enjoyed this. Colon looked great once he got past the arm work and the match became very heated when they started trading blows and the intensity of the match went up. I do wish the arm work at the start would have let somewhere later on, as it was just dropped really. It was great seeing Flair just out a snake eyes here too and I thought these two matched up p.well. Great atmosphere in the stadium too and a super hot crowd. Good match.

Watching this reminded me I reeeeeeealy need to watch the Hansen/Colon series soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Koko Ware (Memphis 11/18/1985)*

I think I have seen this match before but wasn't sure and upon watching it today, I bloody loved it. It is for the NWA title and Flair does a great job in showing that just maybe Koko has a chance of winning here. There's a good story in the match too with Flair thinking he can bully and intimidate Koko, but Koko is having none of it. They show this early when Flair starts to push Koko but he gives as good as he gets. Have to say too; Ware's punches look great in this match and Flair does a great job putting them over. Esp when he does his Flair flop after a flurry and Koko tries to cease his chance with a pin.

The match has a fine heel/babyface dynamic too and Flair is at his heel best here in pulling out every tactic and stroke he can to get the advantage when he senses this Koko guy isn't going to simply roll over for him. Koko himself brings a very good babyface shine here too with his punches and offense in general and the tremendous Lance Russell puts this over so well on commentary in staying that Koko isn't just some local bloke. Flair was great with his varied offense here too with his chops, working on the arm and generally wearing Koko down.

The finishing stretch with the Figure Four/reversals by Koko and with that lead to Koko hitting Flair with some big dropkicks was tremendous and Koko did such a good comeback that you were rooting for him to try and pull the miracle off. We get some fuckery before Flair eventually pins him but I guess it was to protect Koko in defeat.

Great Flair vs underdog match.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

So I've been watching through 2000 and made it to the Royal Rumble last night, watched it today finally. Here are my star ratings for it, don't really want to post my full ramblings I made especially since I stopped writing for Cactus Jack VS Triple H.

*1-800 Collect Presents: The Royal Rumble!*​
Taz VS Kurt Angle- *1/2. 
Winner: Taz, by KO.
I feel like this match went on for a little bit too long and could have had some time cut to go to the other matches on the card, which is saying something since the match is just over 3 minutes. They should've just put over Taz quickly as I don't think them doing that would've completely killed Angle's momentum whatsoever, but whatever. The in ring action was pretty good, no real blown spots which is good.

The Dudley Boys VS The Hardy Boys in the FIRST EVER Elimination Tag Team Tables Match- ***1/4.
Winner: The Hardy Boys
This match on the other hand should have gone a tiny bit longer, but that didn't actually make the match worse. This was great start to finish with some nasty unprotected chair shots, and a table shot. Some awesome visuals as well with Jeff crashing into frame as Matt jumped off the ladder, and the Super Powerbomb onto Matt. Wish there would have been a little bit more build up than a Raw and a Smackdown but for how long they had it was pretty good. Also great as a precursor to the ladder and TLC matches.

Chris Jericho (c) VS Chyna (c) VS Hardcore Holly for the undisputed IC title- **

I'm rather conflicted on this one. For one, you had Jericho giving a good performance, and Chyna giving IMO a pretty good performance along with a nice ending and some good in-between. But on the other hand, you have Hardcore Holly's selling (at one point while he's in the Liontamer he's just sitting there, like it's a nice time for relaxation.), some in-between that didn't really have to be there, and once again an odd match length. But I do feel like Jericho and Chyna's performances pulled this out of 1 star territory. Hardcore honestly had better performances on the Raws and Smackdowns leading up to the rumble.

Swimsuit Competition won by Mae Young- Who cares? It's literally a segment to make a running joke.

New Age Outlaws VS The Acolytes for the WWF World Tag Team Titles- 1/2.
This match sucked, that's all there is to it. The Outlaws literally still won after being pummeled because, X-PAC of all people came out to save them. Even after he interfered, one of the Acolytes still hit like a spinebuster I believe. Some super Cena shit going on there. I feel robbed seeing as this was a major feud for the three weeks leading up to this, on every. Single. Show.

Cactus Jack VS Triple H in a Street Fight for the WWF World Title- ****1/2
An awesome brawling match, with a surprise esque element to it that honestly told a story. The build up was awesome with Foley getting fired, reinstated, and then squaring off with HHH a few times before this match. The promo HHH cut on the go home Smackdown was wonderful, and the 8 man tag and DX segments were wonderful. The barbed wire and thumb tacks coming into play made my inner CZW loving 8 year old self come out and they were wonderfully used by the two of them. Awesome match as a whole. Pedigree on the thumbtacks was brutal at the end.

Royal Rumble- Not that great of a Royal Rumble compared to the next year and year before, still not that bad. I don't do star ratings for rumble matches though.

Show Rating: ***1/2, The good made up for the bad in this one by a long shot, and for every Tag Team Title match you had a Tag Team Table match. And for every swimsuit competition you had a Triple Threat IC title match.

Best: Triple Threat, Tables match, HHH VS Cactus Jack.
Worst: Tag Team Title Match, Swimsuit Competition, Royal Rumble.



They should have done more with heel Al Snow.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hacksaw Duggan & Rock N Roll Express vs Ernie Ladd & Midnight Express (Mid South 06/08/1984)*

Finally got around to getting to this match and boy oh boy it was worth the wait. Love Cornette opening up for the Midnights and instantly getting crowd heat before the match even starts.

Rock N Roll Express/Duggan coming out to Van Halen's 'Jump' :done (Wonder what WWE would have/have replaced this with 8*D)

Fuck this is a super fun match. Morton in particular stands out as he has a fun exchange with Eaton at the start and then gets chance to bump around a lot for big Ernie Ladd. Morton moves around the ring at a million miles an hour as he slides, dodges and runs around the bigger and slower Ladd and it's so fun to see. It's the classic little man trying to hit and run around the big man until Ladd catches Morton with a knee to the throat. It's still remains fun though as Ladd starts ragdolling Morton, who is just as good as Eaton at bumping big around the ring.

Duggan again is also a joy to actually watch here too, he's just perfect for the hot tag and he goes right for Eaton, who is superb as usual as a big bumping machine. Morton gets back in and ends up taking rather a nasty chair shot to the head and is busted open and of course the heels take full advantage of this and work over the exposed area. Cornette gets in too of cpurse and the crowd sound like they want to kill him lol. Morton manages to make the hot tag, but the ref misses it. Cornette tries to use some knockout spray, but instead he sprays Eaton with it and the babyfaces pick up the win. But the heels immeditaly regain their heat by beating them down again afterwards.

Man this was super fun. Watching Morton in particular work his ass off was tremendous and everyone in the match hot their chance to shine. Ladd is a big, lumbering bloke but they made it work with Morton more than willing to superbly work around him and playing a superb FIP. Duggan again was made for this with the hot tag and coming in with his big offense and high energy.

Nuclear heat from the crowd once again here too. The Mid South crowds are so fucking good when they're fired up like this.

Another gem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Barry Windham & Arn Anderson vs Doom (NWA Starrcade 1990) (Street Fight)*

Fuck I enjoyed this. First time I've watched it I think and it's one of the best sub 10 minute brawls I've seen. They fit so much shit in, in such a short space of time too. An intense fight thst of course includes people getting busted open, including Windham taking a chair shot to the face. Love Arn/Barry as a team.

Of course being a street fight, all sorts of weapons are bought out including the aforementioned title belt, a leather strap belt that Arn starts whipping the deal out of Simmons with, chairs and it only takes a minute or two for Barry to have his head rammed into the post to be busted open.

Doesn't take long for Simmons and Reed to get busted open either and Reed shouts out a great "Son of a bitch" straight at Arn. Simmons hits a very nice spinebuster on Windham too here and Simmons in particular impresses in this with his power and slugging it out. Windham hits him with a low blow and immeditaly follows it up with a superplex. The action never let's up and there's zero down time in this match, just balls to the wall for the duration.

Finish though is rather bleh as it ends with a double pin, which does take away from the match a tad tbh. But up until then it's an excellent, intense fight that involves everyone and everything for 10 great minutes.

Enjoyed this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I can see no one here is talking about Takeover: Philadelphia. Shame, cause it was a very enjoyable show, unsurprisingly.

Get on watching that Main Event, asap. It was phenomenal. Had some poor selling moments, but overall, they killed it. ****1/4.

Everything else was at least solid. Opener had a good structure and good execution; Ohno vs. Dream proved yet again that Dream has a bright future; and while it was problematic in areas, Ember vs. Shayna was overall very well booked, Ember selling her bloody ass off and Shayna looking like a murderer w/her arm work.

Only match I hated was Black vs. Cole. It had some great moments, but overall, it was just another dumbass WWE style No DQ match where they spend more time setting up weapons and doing stupid shit than trying to win a match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stan Hansen & Jesse Ventura vs. Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol (9/25/83) :jerry









Well this is a such a unique line up I had to check it out. It's certainly fun to see Hansen/Lawler duke it out. Match is nothing special but I'm not sure how many times those two went up against each other tbh, could have been one of the only times. Standard Memphis tag with them all wailing on one another and ends with a big brawl into the crowd. Nothing great or anything but hey it's still Stan/Jerry in there so it's worth looking at.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Almas/Gargano last night was the best match in NXT history imo. Complete bias because I was in attendance for it yes, but seriously it was absolutely amazing. The emotion and nearfalls were unreal. 5*

Cole/Black was fucking awesome as well and I loved the execution of the finish of Ember/Baszler. They had me reeled in for that one. Tag Title match was really good too.

EDIT: Ok I may have forgot about Nakamura/Zayn... :lol So the 2nd best.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Authors of Pain vs. Undisputed Era: ******
Velveteen Dream vs. Kassius Ohno: ****1/2*
Ember Moon vs. Shayna Baszler: ****3/4*
Adam Cole vs. Alistair Black: *****1/4*
Andrade Almas vs. Johnny Gargano: *****3/4*

They can't keep getting away with this!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Almas/Gargano is the best NXT match in history imo, and I haven't forgotten about Nakamura/Zayn.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Totally forgot about TakeOver, but with all these rave reviews, I guess I can't just let it go. I'll be sure to watch that tomorrow 

This is easily the most fun night in the WWE for me. Fuck Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble's where it's at. Even when it's not really that good, it's still cool to watch just because it's the Rumble.

I had no expectations for it whatsoever, but am I the only one who thought the Women's Rumble was *way* more fun than the Men's? Not necessarily in terms of the in-ring action, but fuck. So many cool returning faces. Trish at #30 vs. Dolph at #30? I know which one I prefer, goes to show that just because something's more predictable doesn't mean it's not the right choice to make.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

AOP/Undisputed - ***
Ohno/Dream - *3/4
Ember/Shaynor - ****
Black/Cole - ****
Gargano/Almas - *****

The Rumbles were both really entertaining too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I really enjoyed the show tonight except for the two matches sandwiched between the Rumbles, which was bad booking imo. I would have had one Rumble open and one Rumble close. Nothing was going to follow Nakamura's win imo.

WWE Title: ***1/2
SD Tag Titles: ***1/4
Men's Rumble: ****1/2
Raw Tag Titles: *3/4
Universal Title: *3/4
Women's Rumble: ***3/4

it was so refreshing to not be disappointed in a Rumble winner tonight and actually see them book one very well, culminating in the right winner. Nakamura/Styles is going to be tremendous. The only big wtf moment of the men's Rumble for me was Ziggler, but that ended up being funny because of how quickly he was eliminated. He's the ultimate geek.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best NXT match in history. :lol

I loved it, but modern hyperbole never fails. Guess that's what EPIC structures earn you nowadays. At least Almas is part of this. Didn't expect that a few months ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/royal-rumble-2018-ppv-ramblings/ :cal3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal watches the Women's Royal Rumble but doesn't watch the women's matches from NXT Takeover.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2018

AJ Styles vs. KO/Sami - ***1/4
Usos vs. Benjamin/Gable - **3/4
Mens Royal Rumble - ****
Tag - Didn't see
Brock vs. Braun vs. Kane - ***
Womens Royal Rumble - ****

I feel like the Womens Rumble is being really underrated.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daniel97 said:


> I feel like the Womens Rumble is being really underrated.


Depends on where you're looking. There's quite a few people on the forum and in the MOTYC thread that preferred the women's to the men. I thought the men's match was completely great (**** 1/4) but the women did very well and it was a lot of fun with all the returns (*** 1/2). Just didn't really think there was much drama in the finish and it was kinda botched. Nia Jax was AWESOME though. I really wanted her to win.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watched the Rumble.... well, 3 matches of the PPV. Saw snippets of the Handicap match, and it looked fine, but I didn't care to watch in full.

The Triple Threat was all about BRAUUUUUUUUN, Bork and Kane were just bodies in his way. Match was pretty trashy, but it was trashy fun, mostly because of MOTHAFUCKIN' BRAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN.

Men's Rumble was a little on the dull/generic side for a while, until the final six, which was tremendous. Loved the old guard vs. new generation standoff, and pretty much everything from the Final Four onwards was great. I'm not a fan of Finn Bálor, but even I was kinda rooting for him to be at least a finalist of the Rumble against Nakamura (which, btw, good winner choice.... he hasn't done anything in the MR - and barely anything in the WWE as a whole - but that could very well change this year). Beyond that, the match still had some good moments... Rey's return was awesome and he looked terrific, I liked seeing Andrade Cien Almas there (Adam Cole too, but I wasn't over the moon about it tbh), and Kofi's big jump was legit impressive. Ziggler at #30 was LMAO worthy, but predictable. I still think that, out of the last couple of years, the 2016 Rumble might've been overall the best one, but this is up there for sure. Wasn't amazed by it, but it was good, all things considered. Compared to the 2017 and 2015 ones, this shit might as well be the 1992 Rumble. Jesus Christ.

Women's Rumble might've not been anywhere near as technically well executed as the Men's, but it was more entertaining. It was basically a giant nostalgia bait, but given how this match was effectively a celebration of the women in the WWE's history, I was fine w/it. Some of the returns were definitely better than others - Kelly Kelly might be one hot babe, but don't let her step in the ring ever again; same for Torrie, and I actually like Torrie..... albeit for everything that she does that isn't actually wrestling a match; also, harsh truth: Lita looked pretty damn sloppy out there, though I still popped my ass off when she came out and did the Moonsault - but the ones that worked, worked well. Particularly, I enjoyed Beth Phoenix, Molly Holly and Jacqueline.... and of Goddamn course, TRISH <3 Trish was easily the highlight of the whole match and maybe of the whole show, she looked amazing out there and as if she hadn't lost a damn beat. Besides Mickie James (but Mickie is part of the full time roster, so it's kinda different), 'twas I said to myself that one of the old girls looked like she belonged there w/the new crop of females, who, for all that's worth, are definitely an improvement in the ring over the old guard. As for the rest, Sasha had a very good performance, Nia was fun as the big monster heel (and her moment w/Beth was pretty dope), some of the others looked decent, and that's about it. The winner was to the surprise of nobody, although I am surprised that Ronda still came out afterwards. Did kinda feel like a theft of Asuka's thunder, there. Nevertheless, for something that could've gone horribly wrong, this wasn't bad, actually. I was entertained, so, good job there.

EDIT: Forgot about this, but the Heath Slater thing in the Rumble was fantastic. Just another note on that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE bullshit at its finest is what the women's match was. Unbearable.

Probably the most rose-tinted glasses orchestrated mess since Trips vs Sting from WrestleMania 31.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> WWE bullshit at its finest is what the women's match was. Unbearable.
> 
> Probably the most rose-tinted glasses orchestrated mess since Trips vs Sting from WrestleMania 31.


Hey, at least it was entertaining (for me, personally) and inoffensive. It looks like Eddie vs JBL compared to Trips vs Sting, which was kinda offensive towards wrestling history, especially if you're a Sting fan. Fuck that match hard.

Plus, it made sense that it was a rose-tinted glasses match. After all, being a celebration of women in the WWE, it wasn't illogical to have all those nostalgia pops. That being said, they're not gonna get away w/this every year. LMAO if they try another 30-Women match next year :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite it largely being a dominated match by the heels until the babyface comeback and win at the end; I quite enjoyed 123 Kid/Bob Holly vs Bigelow/Tatanka from Royal Rumble '95.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Just finished watching TakeOver on my phone. Since social media ruined the show for me I figured there was no reason to wait and honestly knowing all the results really creates a barrier between me and the show. Everyone else was able to be swept up by the show but since I knew exactly what was coming all I could do was focus on the details. And no doubt it was a well presented, solidly wrestled, two and a half hours of show but beyond the Ciampa return this show was effectively meaningless. No other matches really furthered any feuds and no titles changed hands, if anything some matches killed the momentum dead of certain performers, especially given two matches ended in roll ups. Dream is great but his heatless match against Ohno had no reason to be on the card and after the near perfect build for Black/Cole the match was a massive disappointment in how ordinary and middle of the road it was. Extreme my ass, would have been better off with a regular singles match.

Talking about the Main Event, while it’s a shame it was spoiled for me, this was still a hell of a match. Took a while to get going but when it got going... blimey. Beautifully told, expertly worked, a true big fight, competitive title match elevated Byrne chemistry Almas and Gargano share. It was the only match too where the commentary helped the match rather than hundred it. Not sure I’d be branding it quite as hyperbolically as some people have been online but it was a ★★★★½ match for sure and certainly felt like a modern classic by the end.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (NWA Great American Bash 7/5/86) (Cage Match)*

:done :flair3

What a match. It's p.amazing it took until the release of the 4 horsemen DVD for this match to see the light of day I think. Watching and knowing about at least some of the build leading up until the match certainly helps lift it even higher than it would already be.

Of course we get one of the greatest entrances of all time. See my sig for the start of it. Ric comes out the helicopter looking and acting like a million dollars and has all the strut and bravado nailed right down.

The match starts out a tad tentatively with them going for some wrestling before it turns into the proper hate feuled match we thought we'd get. In the build up to the match, the Horsemen attacked Morton and broke his nose twice. So he's wearing the classic Phantom style face mask here. Love the story going into this of Flair continually putting Morton down and then you add in the vicious attacks and it's a great story before the bell even rings.

The only thing the match is missing is commentary, which would have been great, but it's not a big deal. Morton ends up turning the tables on Flair by attacking his face in this and as you'd expect is super aggressive. But so is Flair, who throws some fantastic punches in this as he tries to tear Morton's face apart again. He even rips the mask off and mockingly wears it himself before throwing it into the crowd.
Violent brawler Flair was at his best and he was vicious as hell in this.

Morton and eventually Flair of course get busted open by the cage and it's a tremendous, intense, hate cage match. Flair cheats to win by putting his feet on the ropes for the pin, but Morton put up one hell of a fight. This was excellent and the exact match that this feud deserved.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Hey, at least it was entertaining (for me, personally) and inoffensive. It looks like Eddie vs JBL compared to Trips vs Sting, which was kinda offensive towards wrestling history, especially if you're a Sting fan. Fuck that match hard.
> 
> Plus, it made sense that it was a rose-tinted glasses match. After all, being a celebration of women in the WWE, it wasn't illogical to have all those nostalgia pops. That being said, they're not gonna get away w/this every year. LMAO if they try another 30-Women match next year :lmao


Didn't make sense at all. Lets celebrate Torrie Wilson & Kelly Kelly like they were actually wrestlers at any point in there careers. lol, yeah, that's as much revisionist history as the Trips vs Sting match. Nothing like past people doing better & overshadowing the current division - when these current crop are supposed to be the "superstars", not Divas. People rolling to the floor for minutes on end isn't entertaining either. Especially when it defeats the purpose of the very gimmick they're in. It's garbage. So yeah, no. At all that.

Nothing will ever be ok to be looked at through rose-tinted glasses. If its shit, its shit. Then don't do it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Arn & Ole Anderson vs Rock N Roll Express (07 19 1986)*

Watched this as i'm going through some Horsemen stuff and found it to be tremendous. They had another match not long after this on the Bash tour, but it wasn't half as good or heated as this gem. Not sure if it was on Pro/WWW as i only have the date for it. Upped it to YT as i couldn't find anything on it through searching.

Edit; Actuallly, p.sure it was on Worldwide and the air date could be 2nd August.

Highly recommended.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Doing that old thing I used to do where I googled/youtubed/etc a wrestler and watched a bunch o' shit that pops up. Doing it with 1998 WCW and WWF instead of a specific wrestler this time though because after watching so much 2018 wrestling I'm longing for a time when crowds as a whole gave a shit. I need a term to put this under that no one else will use when I go searching for these posts of mine later (to remember matches/wrestlers/things I liked), so here it is - yooples.


Jim Duggan v. Kendall Windham (Thunder 3/12/98)
Holy shit, Kendall Windham is amazing at selling a clothesline! I would say "well I only watched this one match so I can't judge" but he sold so many in succession that I'm gonna be more firm in saying it, so damn you. He leans back nicely and just tosses his legs in the air in just the right way. I like his offense too. It's not the BEST by any stretch but it's very clearly worked and yet looks snug enough that you don't see air in between his fist (e.g.) and the opponent's body, plus he THROWS most of it well so you kind of buy the illusion of contact after it. This match had a really sloppy....thingy (they might have aimed at a hip toss) but everything else in the short amount of time was really good looking, and fun to watch. Duggan was over seemingly even beyond the patriotism which I wouldn't have expected from a 1998 WCW crowd. I thought he looked good here for being over a dozen years past his peak, and he delivered an awesome knee drop to finish to the match. I really quite liked this. I wanna make a joke about how that means it's four stars but now that I've said that the joke has been made. Mindbad.

Booker T v. Fit Finlay (Thunder 7/2/98)
Wow who is this Fit Finlay he is good. I kind of want to backspace what I wrote about Kendall Windham having good offense because I now have this to compare to it to, but that isn't fair to Kendall because Finlay to me just embarrasses most wrestlers on offense ever. Those clubs, those uppercuts, thank you g'night. Booker isn't the guy you associate with the Finlay-type match but Finlay just perfectly forces his opponent to work more toward his own style that they come out of the match seeming better and tougher than they are. He manages to highlight their strong points even though he doesn't adhere to his opponent, and instead makes his opponent adhere to him. I give Booker credit for selling here though. It can't be easy to take a clothesline over the top rope to the outside and make it look as natural as he did. Good floppy sell on an uppercut, too. What I love about watching this style of short wrestling is that I get to notice and remember most of what happens in the match, so I can learn about what the wrestlers did well and didn't do well specifically. Whether or not the match is good I get something out of it, since it's short so even a couple cool things stick out. And sometimes I see a match that I think I would just call legit good.

Taka Michinoku v. Pablo Marquez (Shotgun saturday Night 1/10/98)
Marquez is some 19 year old Ecuadorean, they said. The match was a complete nothing. Marquez did some bad chops. Taka did a nice spinkick. Brian Christopher heeled it up on the outside. Taka is one of my favourite wrestlers of all time and based on this you'd think he's just a dude who's main positive is athleticism.

Dustin Runnels v. Bradshaw (Heat 8/9/98)
Dustin is in his religious or whatever period. Goes to extend a hand to Bradshaw and is met with a great BOOT to the face. Every bit of pounding Bradshaw did looked really good. He sold Dustin's get-on-knees-and-uppercut-punch thingy better than most people I can remember, too. Dustin wasn't at his most motivated but even on auto-pilot he can sell well enough. They almost went for arm work but...not quite? These two have a MOTYC in them if you break the timeline and pitch them at their best against each other.

The Big Bossman v. Marc Mero (Heat 11/22/98)
Jacqueline is with Mero and in a move I do not understand, grabs his leg when he runs off of the ropes. She somehow confused him with Bossman, even though Bossman wasn't running. Both guys looked pretty good I thought for the 90 or whatever seconds this got but this is nothing to speak of again.

Diamond Dallas Page v. Alex Wright (Nitro 9/21/98)
Alex Wright cuts an awesome anti-American promo pre-match. "*speaks German* I oh I forgot, you stupid Americans can only speak one language! And you can't even speak that correct! [sic]" He says DDP disgusts him more than any other American wrestler, and challenges him so he can take his World Tile match at Halloween Havoc. Page runs through the crowd and people dig the fuck out of him. Wright jumps DDP (throws a hell of a dropkick btw) and he gets the boos before DDP obviously lashes back quickly and hits the cutter. This is very short, very predictable, and doesn't have much in it; it'll never be one of the better things you see, but there's so much energy in the place and everyone was satisfied. Just a fun time. Remember when WWF made DDP a stalker?

The Rock 'n' Roll Express v. DOA (Raw 1/12/98)
RNR are actually Morton & Gibson and not some "New" team so colour me surprised. Jim Cornette announces them, calls them the greatest tag team, and they come out to the Rockers music. More than one kinds of wrong there. JR is shocked they're there and Cornette on commentary keeps going on about how he's put difference aside with RNR, and how great they are. With all this, you might expect more than RNR losing by DQ in 3 minutes to a tag team no one could even name the members of. Shame, hey! Looks like Morton is still kinda great at all sorts of things in 1998. Awesome twisty bump off of a shoulder tackle, and he's still got his fire behind him. Gibson is Gibson I guess, I always found it hard to even pay any specific attention to him even in the best RNR matches. Maybe they should be one of my next yooples. One of DOA hit a really cool sidewalk slam where he turn around a bit before it so it looked like he was drilling Morton into the canvas. This didn't suck.

Steve Austin v. The Rock (Raw 11/16/98)
All right then! This exists and I never watched it. And it's a balls dead fucking awesome fun 8 minute WWF title match. The crowd is crazy rabid for Austin and they lose their fucking minds even a few seconds after they *think* he's gotten the pinfall. They were probably too busy marking out to realise the Corporation had pulled the ref out of the ring. I've given Austin shit for punches before but I came out of this thinking they looked pretty damn nice. I really like the way he throws his opponent's head into turnbuckles, there's always a sense of him actually using the power behind his shoulders to deliver it. I think the Attitude Era's brawling gets a bad rep sometimes but I fucking love when it's sloppy and uncoordinated like this because it comes off more like a bar fight than people organising a show. The clotheslines over the barricade were awesome because they had that delay, where the guy taking it is just uncomfortably hanging over the top for a couple seconds. Austin gets his head bounced on the Spanish announce table and springs up and slovenly rolls over to the announcers themselves before the Rock chokes him out with a cord. This match is just a fiery good time. Fun, wild, energetic, not lacking in outside presence/interference, every move feeling big, Austin going Austin and living up to his whoop ass image, the Rock bumping like the Rock does, clotheslines over barricades, Vince having to act like he hates Austin when his eyes are actually turning gold and green. It has "that air" of the Attitude Era and I can't think of a better match to end this 1998-themed post on. If you think for even a second that you want this, then I think I can safely say you absolutely want this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You should try to find Saturn vs Kenny Kaos from Nitro 10/19/98. It fits in w/that bit you acknowledged of having that great, fun energy of a hot time + it's kind of the pinnacle Saturn showcase match in regards to how over he got from the Raven program, and how cool his offense could be. (I literally think I've said this before. Now I'm hyping up a 4 minute TV match too much. :walphtf)

Duggan never stopped being over. I'm watching Russo Era WCW atm and he's still beloved. Making him a god damn janitor, yet not a single person cares. b/c he's Hacksaw Jim Duggan and they love him. Caught some random RAW 2008 stuff not long ago, he cuts a promo shaming (Cody) Rhodes/Dibiase Jr. and not only is the promo good, but the audience cared SOOO much.

Gonna watch the Austin vs Rock match b/c I don't recall it. For awesome sloppy brawls & just so I can see Austin "slovenly roll", b/c that word usage was phenomenal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh no I hyped up a roll over the announce table too much and didn't know it. :CENA


I'll try to find Saturn/Kaos next time I do one of those.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching that Austin/Rock match now too. This damn slovenly roll better be the best thing ever!!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Austin/Rock was a ton of fun. Great brawl with a molten crowd. Poor Mankind showed up for revenge and gets beaten up, some fan jumps the barricade and barely looks 15 and still gets tackled by security and dragged out :lmao. And of course Taker shows up at the end to deck Austin "in the face" with a shovel. Oh yeah, and the network version of the show with it on has some footage after the show went off the air, with Austin stunning Shane, Bossman and Shamrock. That's cool. Was there something else? No. Don't think so...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SLOVENLY ROLL now cemented in gif form.

I'm gonna ignore actually talking about the blast of a match, and admit how much I laughed in anticipation just for that roll.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Austin/Rock was indeed fun as fuck and as JR said "This crowd is jacked". Rabid crowd for Austin throughout as you'd expect and it's a great brawl. Everything is at a breakneck pace too and the action never let's up. You get the outside shit too when Mankind turns up to further add to the heat, whilst Austin unloads on Rock with punches.

Typical chaotic ending when the corporation turn up and Taker whacks Austin with a shovel to the skull.

Super fun and heated.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Didn't make sense at all. Lets celebrate Torrie Wilson & Kelly Kelly like they were actually wrestlers at any point in there careers. lol, yeah, that's as much revisionist history as the Trips vs Sting match. Nothing like past people doing better & overshadowing the current division - when these current crop are supposed to be the "superstars", not Divas. People rolling to the floor for minutes on end isn't entertaining either. Especially when it defeats the purpose of the very gimmick they're in. It's garbage. So yeah, no. At all that.
> 
> Nothing will ever be ok to be looked at through rose-tinted glasses. If its shit, its shit. Then don't do it.


Fair enough, and I absolutely agree with you when it comes to Torrie and Kelly lmao) and the rolling out of the ring. But again, I personally just kinda sat back and enjoyed it without really thinking much about it. I kinda knew off the bat that it would be a nostalgia bait, and quite honestly, I don't care about more than half of the women in the Main Roster nowadays (albeit I was left confused with some of the choices, like Michelle McCool throwing out 3 people or whatever), so I wasn't too bothered by the glorification of the old at the expense of the new.

It was kinda trashy, but it was the type of trash that entertained me. I guess that's kinda why I wasn't upset w/what I got :shrug

(Also, if we are honest, Kelly Kelly did win the Women's/Divas/Whatever's Title a bunch of times; so by WWE standards, she was a wrestler :lmao)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should have recreated history in Philly by having Asuka win via taking Nia Jax over in a front chancery. :monkey

RE Austin/Rock: That guy who hugged Austin as he was climbing over the barricade. Oh man, hilarious. That crowd was absolutely losing their minds. I should see what Nitro was offering up as competition.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Should have recreated history in Philly by having Asuka win via taking Nia Jax over in a front chancery. :monkey
> 
> RE Austin/Rock: That guy who hugged Austin as he was climbing over the barricade. Oh man, hilarious. That crowd was absolutely losing their minds. I should see what Nitro was offering up as competition.


Oh God, let's not go there :lmao

While we're at it, it's always curious to hear your takes on something; and I know that you loved Almas vs Gargano (I loved it too, but I'm right there w/you: it sure as hell isn't the best match in NXT history), but what did you think of the rest of Takeover: Philadelphia? (And am I the only one who wasn't a fan of Black vs Cole? )

And yes, all Rock vs Austin matches are fun. Even the less than stellar WM 15 one was fun too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still say Austin vs Rock from WM 15 is lowkey great, but that's me.

Wrote about Takeover, but didn't post it here, so here it is:



Spoiler: Takeover Philly



Fun Takeover, as anticipated Although the Women seem to be getting the short end of the stick lately and I'm not sure why. On TV - w/those who inherently matter - it's the amount of fun it usually is, then comes a Takeover and its been on the downer side for their matches. I did like Baszler in the match, though. Just thought the structure was weak, w/the trainers coming in and the ghastly predictable finish. Toss that in w/the 50/50 booking of it and and ugh. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Like Main Roster shenanigans bad. The submission teases should have had a better payoff, b/c I was digging those.

Dug the tag championship match a lot. AoP was more interesting as a whole than Red Dragon was, but that's why I liked it as much as I did. Seeing them work a match as full blown babyfaces was a nice difference from the usual - and well worked - monster brute/heel roles. They're a damn good team. This only convinces me further. This is the best schoolboy victory used by WWE in what will probably be ever, by this rate. It's so overdone, but here it ACTUALLY worked.

Dream vs Ohno suffered from a few things; on the whole I liked when it got to pop. Still quite solid. Shame about Hero/Ohno being on such a downturn w/his booking lately, b/c it was nailed on the head that it makes the crowd kind of not find him easy to beleve in for the win. Dream is still working a bit at some things, but dude has lots of promise. This didn't land like how vs Black or Gargano on TV did, although the crowd still responds well and he's got a nice thing going this early on. Match could have been a bit shorter, but it's all about a learning process. He has strong presence, and that's what matters atm. I hope they keep the push going. Ohno striking the bejezus out of people will never not be great.

Extreme Rules wasn't as GREAT as I wanted it to be. Then again, it was the most amount of actual enjoyment I had from a WWE style gimmick match since idk when. The kind of thing where it was nice that it didn't try to force itself to be something massive in scale. Good brawl. Black has been excellent since showing up to NXT, and I've loved Cole for years. Cole especially was bumping left, right, & center all over for this match. When it was over w/, both guys felt like they really put something into it, but Cole, good grief. What a great guy. Ladder & inverted chair spots were sick.

Dunno about star ratings or all that jazz, I loved Cien vs Gargano from start to finish. w/the exception to the ever annoying "let the challenger come out second" trope b/c NXT is still WWE at the end of the day. Gargano's babyface run is working well, you don't have to force lame things like that to emphasize it. Was into the feeling out start, the gradual build was well done, & the epic climax felt earned, rather than spammed. Proper drama & intrigue. Both guys were bumping mad for their match, too. Cien especially is on a different level, overall. Busting out a few of his old sequences from the La Sombra days was the best. Glad he retained. Hoping the match vs Black is on the horizon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Perry Saturn vs Kenny Kaos (Monday Nitro 10.19.1998)*





 @Yeah1993

In case you need it :cozy


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

There's one problem with a women's rumble. There will come a time when the "surprises" stop being as such. The well isn't as deep as the men. So we should get used to seeing K2 and the likes every January. 

Next year I'd prefer Jillian, Victoria, Jazz, Kharma, Ivory (if Vickie can do it so can Iv), Melina & Eve but the likelihood of some of those is non existent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saturn vs Kaos plug :monkey


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I still say Austin vs Rock from WM 15 is lowkey great, but that's me.
> 
> Wrote about Takeover, but didn't post it here, so here it is:
> 
> ...


Seems like I was a lot more positive on Ember vs Shayna and a lot more negative on Black vs Cole than you were  I agree that Baszler was strong here, but I also give Ember all the prop in the world for selling the arm like a champ. I would've usually rolled my eyes at the structure (especially at the overlong Armbar in the end), but her selljob kinda sold it for me all the way through. As for Black vs Cole, everything up until the kendo stick Moonsault was fantastic; and then they started setting up weapons and spots like time wasting idiots and I got bored of it really quickly. Some cool spots here and there (the chairs one, and the announce table one was cool too), but meh overall. Still love Black, though, he's great; and nothing to take away from Adam Cole either, this just wasn't really a match worthy of him. For me, at least.

Almas vs Black should ME the next Takeover. It sounds amazing on paper. Fun fact: Almas vs Black actually happened at last year's Takeover: Orlando, which would mark New Orleans as exactly one year after Black debuted on NXT and he would be facing the same guy as Orlando, only for the big title now. Not so fun fact: that Orlando match they had was kinda blah. 

Besides them, Ember vs Shayna II or Ember vs Kairi are probables, and I enjoyed Ember vs Shayna I but I wouldn't want it again so soon, so I'm all for Ember vs Kairi tbh; reDRAGON vs sAnitY, which sounds... fine, I guess; debut of one of the new big stars (Ricochet/EC3); and Gargano vs Ciampa, which I expect to enjoy, since I liked their CWC match and this one has a good story behind it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> RE Austin/Rock: That guy who hugged Austin as he was climbing over the barricade. Oh man, hilarious. That crowd was absolutely losing their minds. I should see what Nitro was offering up as competition.


A Hogan segment where he beats up Bischoff and Hall with Nash coming in for the save... even though Nash is facing Hall at the PPV on Sunday :lmao. Then a Benoit/Bret match that ends in a DQ, and DDP steals Bret's US title and dares him to take it back. Followed by a brawl between GOLDBERG and BIGELOW in the last minute of the broadcast. Fook me they just threw everything into those final 20 minutes of the show lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio (WWE Smackdown 12/11/2003)

:brock

Yeah, this is a big reason why Lesnar is great and why he just gets this pro wrestling shit.

Rey Rey of course is half the size of Lesnar but in this match alone, it's not important for the way Lesnar approaches this match and how great it turns out to be. Brock is all cocky at the start, mocking Rey's diminutive size. He starts ragdolling him around, even picking Rey up by his legs and flinging him across the ring. Then Mysterio starts to use his speed and literally leads Lesnar a merry chase around the ring to try and tire the big man out.

He geys some quick offense in by targeting the leg and Lesnar is already selling and bumping great. Rey hits a couple of hurricanrana's to send Brock into the barricade and the ring post. Rey's comeback here is fantastic and Lesnar is equally great in selling it. It says something about the story of the match when Lesnar has to resort to punting Rey in the balls to get an advantage.

Rey gets one of his own later on and Brock does staggered selling as well as anyone can. There's a couple of great nearfalls here too as Rey hits the 619. Lesnar eventually catches Rey and delivers a big powerbomb and puts him in a nasty looking Brock Lock, which always looks brutal and something I'd wish we'd seen more of.

This is a tremendous big man/little man match and Lesnar gives Rey a lot, without losing his aura in the process. So enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Benoit/Finlay from Nitro June 15th 1998. Don't remember seeing it before, but who knows, my memory sucks. Its the night after GAB, when Benoit/Booker I think had their final match in their big series, with the winner facing Finlay for the TV title. Booker won that and beat Finlay, so the 2 losers face off here on Nitro. Great match as we all expect, and got plenty of time too, with a commercial break between it as well. AND the fans were really into it too, which is good to see cos the Nitro crowds did have a tendency to only care about the MAIN EVENTERS. They weren't headbutting each other and brutalising each other like they would in WWE, but what they did was still great and not exactly pain free no doubt . The finish was a sweet reversal of a Tombstone attempt right into a Crossface which was smooth as fuck... until Finlay's hand got caught on Benoit's crotch and it took him a few moments to lock the arm between his legs :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal at least watching wrestling roud


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gave Black vs Cole @ Philadelphia another try. Gotta say: I probably was in a shitty mood during the 1st watch for... some reason, because I enjoyed it wayyyyyy more on rewatch. Still enough to call it "good", due to all the small wasted motions that bored the fuck out of me and some stuff I found dumb, but overall, it played very naturally from start to finish, and both guys were very strong in their characters. Loved the opening of the match, and the spots were - mostly - not contrived, and sick looking.... especially the inverted chairs one. OUCH. Overall, a very solid brawl.

With that said, there have been 19 NXT live shows for the course of 4 years. Time really does fly by. I decided to rank them, cause why not:


Spoiler: NXT



R-Evolution - NXT at its absolute peak. Owens' stunning debut, in one of the most fun sub-5 minute matches the WWE has had. Bálor making his 1st big Demon entrance, which is boring as fuck nowadays, but back then it was awesome; and the tag match that followed was very solid as well. Charlotte vs Sasha setting a high bar for women's wrestling. And the 5-star epic Neville vs Zayn, culminating in Zayn's title win and the Owens turn. The only things keeping this show from being perfection were the team title match and Corbin's filler squash. Absolutely phenomenal stuff.

WarGames - I thought that by now, my hype on this show would've worn off and that I'd push it down to #4 or #5, but it's still up here. One downer aside (the women's match), the opener was a fun beefy brawl, and then the Black vs Dream, McIntyre vs Almas and WarGames trio was fucking incredible. Great, great show.

Dallas - From a pure wrestling perspective, this was mighty stuff. Revival vs AA was great, Bayley vs Asuka was very good and Zayn vs Nakamura was absolutely amazing. Bálor vs Joe II was solid as well. Aries vs Corbin was meh, but everything else more than made up for it. That match, as well as the fact that it wasn't a total game changer like R-Evolution was, kept it from being higher up.

Brooklyn I - Like R-Evolution, this felt like one of those "will never be duplicated" type things, despite the many Brooklyn shows that followed. Obviously Sasha vs Bayley was incredible and one of NXT's greats. Besides that, Liger vs Breeze was very fun, the team title match was a huge sleeper, Joe vs Corbin was a solid brawl and the Main Event was very good. Crews' debut could've been better, and that's the only downer in the show.

Respect - Outside of the way they handled the finals of the team tournament (although the match itself was fine), this was a terrific wrestling show, w/two very strong team matches to open, Asuka's debut rivaling Owens' in pure badassery, Crews vs Breeze being a good little midcard addition, and Bayley vs Sasha having probably one of the best Iron Man matches ever (not saying a lot, I'd say, but they did).

Brooklyn III - How surprising was this show, where every single match was good or better? Gargano vs Almas ruled, AOP vs SAnitY was a fun brawl, Itami vs Black was a sleeper, Asuka vs Ember II was excellent and Roode vs McIntyre was a pretty good ME as well. Top to bottom, the best Brooklyn card from a pure wrestling perspective. Just didn't have that extra hmph that made it stand out higher.

The End - Highlighted by the incredible AA vs Revival II, you also had a very good Nakamura vs Aries, two very solid title matches in Asuka vs Nia and Bálor vs Joe Cage Match, and Almas' debut was entertaining. Great show, and a damn good curtain call to the Full Sail era of NXT Takeovers (hence, "The End").

Brooklyn II - The undercard was solid, w/a good opener and two fine debuts for Ember Moon and Bobby Roode respectively. Revival vs DIY was stunning, though, and the pace changer of the show. Asuka vs Bayley II and Joe vs Nakamura, albeit disappointing, were good title matches to close everything out. A step down from its predecessor and sucessor, but still a very good show without question.

Philadelphia - Top to bottom, a considerably good show; although some matches were better than others. The middle portion of the show - Ohno vs Dream, Ember vs Shayna and Black vs Cole - was all decent to solid, but nothing more than decent to solid. However, reDRAGON vs AOP was very good, and the Main Event was spectacular. Good show, all around.

Unstoppable - Again, another card without a true stinker top to bottom. The undercard was very decent, w/Bálor vs Breeze, the women's tag and Rhyno vs Corbin all being enjoyable to varying degrees. The team title match was pretty good too, to keep the momentum going. Then Sasha vs Becky happened. Holy motherfucking shit. And to top it off, a very good Owens vs Zayn brawl w/Samoa Joe's debut to close the show. Great stuff overall imo.

London - While the show was the one Takeover that did pretty much nothing for the status quo, doesn't change how great it was as a wrestling card. One shitty match in Corbin vs Crews, and then everything else was at least good, from the underrated Bayley vs Nia, to the very good Emma vs Asuka and Revival vs Enzo/Cass, and the great Bálor vs Joe Main Event.

San Antonio - Very strong top to bottom card, even if more on the forgettable side. An excellent Nakamura vs Roode ME, a very good team title match, a good women's Fatal 4-Way and two okay'ish undercard matches make for a supremely enjoyable card from start to finish.

Toronto - While Joe vs Nakamura II sucked, and the Dusty Tourney finals sucked twice as much... the good stuff was just the best. Roode vs Dillinger was very by-the-numbers, but it was the best by-the-numbers match ever, w/the perfect clash of heel, babyface and the crowd eating up every single second. Asuka vs Mickie was very, very solid and Mickie looked like she didn't miss a beat. And Revival vs DIY 2 out of 3 falls was damn near 5 stars, that shit was mindblowing. Terrific show, despite the few missteps here or there.

Fatal 4-Way - Hardly the most consistent wrestling card, but as far as pure fun was, this is one of the most entertaining of the Takeovers. The booking was pitch perfect all night, and every match fulfilled its purpose great, sans for Enzo vs LeFort which was a bit boring. The opener was very solid, Corbin's debut was hilarious, Charlotte vs Bayley was awesome and the 4-Way Main Event was epic. Even Mojo Rawley's match was a ton of fun... probably because it lasted a minute and he got his ass kicked.

Arrival - Zayn vs Cesaro was an all-time classic, Bo vs Neville was quite good and Paige vs Emma was alright. The rest of the card sucked, but the positive stuff is more than enough for the show to get its due as a good event overall. Extra points for being the 1st one; and while it doesn't hold up legendarily well, it's still a mark in the brand's history.

Rival - The 1st half of this show was AWFUL. Like, legit terrible. Itami vs Breeze was a decent opener, but the following two matches were just atrocious, especially the tag match. Once we hit Bálor vs Neville, that's when the show got good. That match was excellent, the women's 4-Way was even more so, and Zayn vs Owens peaked everything out. The 2nd half was so spectacular that it saved this show from disaster. Three great matches + a decent opener make for an overall pretty damn good show.

Takeover - It's all about the triple Main Event here. I really liked Neville vs Kidd, LOVED Zayn vs Breeze, and.... enjoyed Natalya vs Charlotte, even if it's one of the most overrated women's matches I've ever seen. The two undercard matches sucked, but the show is still a strong thumbs up due to the triple punch at the end.

Chicago - Despite the show having three good matches, and three out of five means it was a good show, the fact of the matter is that this very much was a one-match-card, since two of those matches (Roode vs Itami and AOP vs DIY) were fine but nothing special. Bate vs Dunne was absolutely amazing, and truly worthy of the praise it gets. Everything else sucked.

Orlando - Quite honestly the only NXT PPV I'd call less than good. Not necessarily bad though, just... meh. But meh is tragic for NXT standards. Asuka vs Ember was MOTN and it was only "good". Then, the opening tag was a fun clusterfuck. That's it as far as things I liked. Aleister Black's debut was whatever, Roode vs Nakamura II was terrible, and the teams 3-Way is the most overrated match in NXT history. Again, not an outright bad match, but painfully shrug worthy. I seriously don't understand the jizz towards it, I swear I don't.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the Hogan/Vader matches in WCW atm. The Superbrawl match was decent enough, not great. The Uncensored match though... :lmao. What a clusterfuck. Its a strap match. Flair is out at ringside with Vader. He demands that Hogan put the strap on (hahahaha) to start the match... then THE RENEGADE runs out and chases Flair backstage. Flair comes back out, and gets chased again. Then comes back out. Apparently Hogan and Vader are having a match btw. Jimmy Hart shows up halfway through with a torn t-shirt and his tie all messed up and looks like he was in the middle of getting some ACTION before realising he needed to be at ringside :lmao. Then a guy in a black outfit and a mask comes out and attacks Renegade and Hogan with a chair, then fucks off. Hogan and Vader are constantly taking the strap off btw and doing what they want. Then FLAIR attacks Hogan, Hogan no sells, puts the strap on (hahahahahaha) Flair, drags him around the ring touching all 4 corners and... WINS THE MATCH :lmao. How? Why? :lmao. Then the masked guy shows up again, and attacks Vader and Flair as Arn Anderson comes hopping out from the back tied up and in the black outfit, and Savage reveals himself to be the other guy in the mask.

:lmao ***** for hilarious fuckaray the likes of which I have not seen in some time :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wasn't the biggest fan of their Superbrawl match, bar bits of :Vader awesomeness,



> Hulk Hogan vs Vader (WCW SuperBrawl V 02/19/95)
> 
> I don't think I've ever gone back and watched any of the Vader/Hogan stuff properly tbh. Yeah Vader is a big favourite of mine but just never got around to it.
> 
> ...



but fuck I might watch that clusterfuck of a strap match for the lols. Flair winning tho :bosque


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the rest of the Hogan/Vader matches. A tag with Flair/Vader Vs Hogan/Savage, which was pretty bad. Too much shit going on again with Arn and Renegade on the outside, and Hogan just no selling everything as usual so the heels never really got in control of the match. Best part was Savage's dad getting murdered after the match .

Hogan/Vader cage was pretty bad too. Usual Hogan bullshit preventing Vader from really being the MONSTER he should be. Beefcake randomly shows up, walks down to the ring and Rodman stands with a chair so he backs away and... that's that :lmao.

At the end of the cage match they set up Vader Vs Flair/Arn handicap match at the Clash, which was the set up for Flair Vs Arn too which I think is underrated beyond fuck. However I've never actually seen the handicap match, so amma get onto that later methinks .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to watch their Crockett Cup '87 match again, but I think I'm still in the mindset that I might just prefer the Flair/Windham series to Flair/Steamer. I love the Ricky trilogy and not knocking the matches in any way, just a personal preference


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I prefer their WWW and BOTB II matches to any of the Flair/Steamboat matches . But for overall consistency, Steamboat/Flair has the edge simply because they have more matches available out there to watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I was talking strictly comparing the respective trilogies, but they're so close for me, on another day I'd probably say the Steamer series is the one.

I guess it's testament to the three stars involved that we have two truly magnificent series of matches.

Oh :flair3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Watching the Hogan/Vader matches in WCW atm. The Superbrawl match was decent enough, not great. The Uncensored match though... :lmao. What a clusterfuck. Its a strap match. Flair is out at ringside with Vader. He demands that Hogan put the strap on (hahahaha) to start the match... then THE RENEGADE runs out and chases Flair backstage. Flair comes back out, and gets chased again. Then comes back out. Apparently Hogan and Vader are having a match btw. Jimmy Hart shows up halfway through with a torn t-shirt and his tie all messed up and looks like he was in the middle of getting some ACTION before realising he needed to be at ringside :lmao. Then a guy in a black outfit and a mask comes out and attacks Renegade and Hogan with a chair, then fucks off. Hogan and Vader are constantly taking the strap off btw and doing what they want. Then FLAIR attacks Hogan, Hogan no sells, puts the strap on (hahahahahaha) Flair, drags him around the ring touching all 4 corners and... WINS THE MATCH :lmao. How? Why? :lmao. Then the masked guy shows up again, and attacks Vader and Flair as Arn Anderson comes hopping out from the back tied up and in the black outfit, and Savage reveals himself to be the other guy in the mask.
> 
> :lmao ***** for hilarious fuckaray the likes of which I have not seen in some time :lmao


This sounds so bad that I need to watch :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Barry matches are brilliant. But Flair vs Steamboat has 2/3 Falls on its side, so that series wins out for me.

I LOVE Flair vs Arn from Fall Brawl '95. The fact that match happens on the PPV it does. Good ol' 1995 WCW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Flair vs Barry matches are brilliant. But Flair vs Steamboat has 2/3 Falls on its side, so that series wins out for me.
> 
> I LOVE Flair vs Arn from Fall Brawl '95. The fact that match happens on the PPV it does. Good ol' 1995 WCW.


Good to know someone else loves that match :mark:. I was amazed by the amount of shit it got when I looked up reviews and whatnot after I first saw it. People be crazy, man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not even sure what "shit" could be said about it. That Pillman shows up for the finish? Oh well, I know how much I dig it. All I need. Arn winning :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure if I ever got around to watching Flair/Arn. I'll do tjat later and prob watch Pillman/Badd from Fall Brawl too, as it's always been a favourite.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea, so Flair/Arn is v.good indeed. I think most of the 'dislike' it geys is because people I think just assumed it's a hate feud and wanting that to be the basis of the match. When in essence, going by watching clips of the build, thats not really what it's about. It's more about mutual respect and them not wanting to be in this position but they are, so they go out there and try and one up each other to prove that they can.

I like how the match starts slowly with them both having digs at each other before the match starts to escalate and the intensity levels starts to crank up. Love that roll up nearfalls Arn gets too as I legit thought that could be the finish. I can see people not liking the Pillman run in and finish, but I don't think it took much out the match tbh.

'Flair 3:16' sign in the crowd too :flair3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly I think some people might have almost gained their opinion on the match from the 4 Horsemen documentary WWE did, where they briefly mention the feud and match and guys like HHH crap on it saying dumb shit like people being confused as to why they were fighting each other :cal. For the people who hadn't seen the match at the time, they probably went into it with preconceived notions of it being crap and having a stupid feud because top wrestlers said so. I remember a lot of people who didn't like the match only really saw it following the documentary when people in this thread all those years ago were on a Horsemen run watching as much stuff as possible. But who knows, maybe I'm talking shit .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - WCW Fall Brawl 17/09/1995

Woooooooooo! Since I brought this up recently and some others have talked about it, I figured I'd give it a watch for the first time in a few years. I've seen it get plenty of hate, especially back when I originally saw it 12 or so years ago, but I always loved it. Time to find out if it holds up!!!

I made mention earlier of the 4 Horsemen documentary and what it had to say on this match, mainly HHH spouting shit about fans not understanding why Flair and Arn were fighting. The only way you wouldn't understand it is if you saw none of the build-up and watched the match with no sound. Either that or you'd have to be an utter fucking moron lol. This isn't a HATE feud. Its a LOVE feud. These two men LOVE each other like brothers. Founding members of the 4 Horsemen, they were always together and always had each other's back. However, ever since Hogan showed up in WCW, Flair has gone a little crazy, and even seems to have lost a step or two. He appears to be more focused on hiding behind Arn, letting HIM do all the work in the matches or helping him out during singles matches, rather than simply being THE NATURE BOY RIC FLAIR. It all came to "blows" at Clash of the Champions where Arn and Flair took on Vader in a handicap match. Arn constantly did all the work, with Flair coming in only when Arn had Vader down. Arn constantly had to make saves to prevent Flair from being pinned, but when it came to Arn taking the powerbomb and getting covered, despite being RIGHT NEXT to both Arn and Vader, Flair seemingly let the 3 count take place, and then had the BALLS to blame Arn for losing the match! Following that, Flair kept leaving Arn high and dry during tag matches, and Arn had had enough. No longer would Flair receive help from THE ENFORCER. Flair was going to have to rely on himself, the 12 time WORLD CHAMPION that he is, but seems to have forgotten about. Flair was unhappy with this situation, and the two ended up being booked to face each other on PPV, where Arn hopes to rekindle the fire in Flair, all the while proving to himself, the world and to Flair that he's every bit as good as the Nature Boy, and doesn't deserve the disrespect Flair has been giving him lately. Is it the simplest storyline going? No. It is hard to understand? Fuck no. 

I love how IMPORTANT they make this match feel. Tony and Heenan talk about it a little, then we go to Mean Gene who shows a video package, and interviews Arn. Then back to Tony and Heenan who discuss the match some more. As Flair and Arn make their way to the ring, Tony mentions that not only have the fans always wanted to see this match, but the wrestlers have too, and the camera cuts to the crowd where numerous wrestlers have taken seats to watch it. The American Males, Brian Pillman, Eddie Guerrero, Alex Wright, Colonel Parker and Big Bubba are all seen watching the match. I like this idea. WWE should do something like it for huge matches too.

Here we go! The bell rings and its time for the first ever meeting between Flair and Arn!

Flair takes Arn down, but Arn responds with a drop toe hold, and instead of following it up with a hold or a move, he instead ruffles the hair of the Nature Boy and mocks his WOO! Just a little bit of the mind games from Arn!

Arn starts working over the arm of Flair, and Flair just screams HEYYYY! at him as if to say "the fuck are you doing?" only to get a SLAP to the face! Arn is all business here, but Flair is having a hard time really being FLAIR, which is exactly why Arn is in this match; to bring back RIC FLAIR.

Anderson continues the arm work, while Flair keeps getting the odd shot in. Starts with some chops, then some kicks to the leg, but each time Arn just takes him back down, almost as if what Flair is doing isn't enough, and Arn is trying to bring out more intensity and aggression from him. Finally, after some PUNCHES TO THE FACE, Flair finally seems to realise that he NEEDS to get into the game. Vicious chops, ducking at the ropes and sending Arn to the floor, coming off the top rope and more! The Nature Boy is slowly getting back on form!!!

The harder Flair comes at him though, the harder Arn fights back. Flair is still not THERE yet, so dammit, Arn is just gonna have to keep turning it up until he does.

LOW BLOW~!

Now they are battling on the floor, both taking big bumps as again the intensity keeps increasing!

Flair is in a grove now. He does a little strut, he hits the big vertical suplex, he's hitting big rights. But Arn isn't done yet, and now he's starting to play dirty; scraping Flair's face across the ropes and choking him in the corner! However, once he decides its time for a DDT, Flair crawls back into the match and locks the Figure Four in!!!

Arn is in pain, but suddenly, just like The Undertaker, he sits up while in the hold and tells Flair he's got nothing before reversing the submission!!!

Here comes Flair! Despite the hold being reversed, the damage was still done to Arn's legs, and now Flair is like a shark smelling blood in the water! It looks like Flair is finally in control and ready to win the match, but as Arn keeps the referee distracted, Brian Pillman attacks Flair, and a DDT from Arn puts away the Nature Boy!!!

Now, the finish. I can understand people not liking it, especially given the way this feud has gone and what the match was all about. For me personally, I see it as Arn doing one last thing to bring back the old Ric Flair. Flair had relied on Arn for so long to have his back, but due to sheer disrespect, Flair no longer had it. Arn on the other hand seemed to have Brian watching his back, and it was the difference between winning and losing for THE ENFORCER! Maybe now Flair will understand that a) having Arn with him is the best damn thing, and b) he needs to be THE DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME again and do whatever is necessary to beat his opponents!

Obviously that's just how I personally see the finish, and hell, the entire match too. And its precisely why I LOVE this match so much. 

Rating: ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've been going through some classic Horsemen stuff from the 80's and it's put me in an Arn mood. There are two matches I'll be finally checking out later; vs Dustin Rhodes and against Barry Windham. Both from '92.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The bit about the ending for Flair vs Arn is great. Even if in the long run it looks & sounds better there, than it did for Havoc when Flair would join back up w/Arn & Pillman, in seemingly a convoluted moment of booking. It would have been more believable had there not been as much friction post-Fall Brawl w/it turning into HATE. Flair was mauling Pillman in matches and then had a steel cage match vs Arn, but they were all in cahoots to screw Sting at the end of it? Well, Flair vs Arn completely rules and that's all I need at least. :cozy

Watching 2000 as a whole now that I've finished up 1999. Nitro was a monster train-wreck (...), but somewhere in the middle of it Arn Anderson pops up to cut a killer promo. Even out of the clear blue sky, Arn can show up w/a little story arc behind him and create something great. Can't express enough what a treasure this guy is. And he'll fuck you up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arn Anderson vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night 01/04/1992)

This has a rep of being a tremendous match and it certainly lives up to it. You got both of them doing some great body work, with Dustin working on the leg of Arn and later on, Arn doing his fantastic limb work by targeting Dustin's arm. Features some excellent selling by both and the match continues to build. Heyman gets involved too of course as this is during the DA period and he cracks Dustin over the head with his phone, which allows Arn to fully take over.

There are some great nearfalls toward the end too until some outside interference. A big brawl breaks out with the DA members running in and Steamboat, Windham and Simmons brawling in and around the ring.

Chaotic finish to a excellent match. Highly recommended.

Just realised I upped the match aaages ago lol



Includes the finish which was shown the night after on main event.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay I don't think I've seen that Flair/Arn match, I should probably go watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

This happened in New Japan but fuck you it is VADER and I wrote too much to justify sticking it in the Last Match Watched thread.




Keiji Mutoh v. Big Van Vader 8/10/91

All right, time to close the book on one of the very few big and/or praised Vader matches I've never seen. It's a handheld show related to the G-1 Climax in some way that I'm not sure of, and I couldn't tell you when it even showed up on the web. It's possible it's been here all this time and I just didn't hear about until the past few years. Vader's Japan run is a big of a strange thing for me, where I really like a lot of it because duh it's Vader, but I tend to be lower on it than a lot of other people. He has several good/very good matches running through the late 80s to the early 00s against who knows how many opponents, but I think his match against Hashimoto in 1989 and the match against Kawada in 2000, are the only two that are really fuckballs amazing. That's a high bar to reach but a lot of people thought his stuff in All Japan in 99 hit that level and even before I admitted their quality sunk a fair bit in early 97, I never agreed. Everything I've seen from that time is good IIRC, just not on that really great level. This is definitely at that level.

This is big heel v. smaller face at it's most simple and awesome. A masterclass in showing what should probably be very basic. There are two real recurring themes that kick this off - one guy getting sent of the outside, and Mutoh living off of Vader creating opportunities for him. I'm not a Mutoh fan as maybe someone reading this will know, but I'm thinking I should keep a more open mind of his 1991 when I rewatch it because he played his part tremendously here. His selling of Vader's headbutt at the beginning was kind of subtle but absolutely amazing. He kind of hopped backward bit to stop himself from falling over which, again, is small, but something that just tells you exactly how heavy the headbutt was. His selling of the VADER PUNCHES absolutely rocked too, he looked completely shaken on every one, bones rattling and brain losing itself. His kick-outs were very desperate looking, a real "OH SHIT NO NO NO" feel to them. I got that even moreso when Vader locked on a reverse headlock, with Mutoh being so frantic while flopping around, that he actually escapes from him like a spider leaving the beak of an eagle. Considering one of my main contentions with the guy is how bored and unaffected he tends to look during submission holds, this brought me endless, endless joy. His offense stood out to me more than once; especially some actually *incredible* looking forearms when he leapt up in the air like some cartoon hero. It wasn't just the execution of his offense, either; when Vader was down Mutoh threw a bunch of moves in succession to try to finish him off and the hurry of it all really sells that his opponent is a super-heavyweight. I thought Mutoh did a fucking brilliant job of making Vader feel like the giant BEEF chunk bastard he is, while at the same time getting probably even more offense in than Vader did, if you were to add it all up. 

Vader is Vader. VADER PUNCHES. GREAT SELLING. CHUNK. BEEF. When Mutoh gets back in the ring for their 3rd or 4th collar-and-elbow, Mutoh starts throwing hands in Vader's face. Vader's selling of each one was fucking sublime, swinging his head and throwing his arm relative to the force and direction that's coming to him. In addition to Vader being Vader there's also a more cautious Vader. Vader slaps away Mutoh's hand on one of the teased tie-ups after Mutoh wailed on him earlier, and then on the next teased tie-up, Vader hits one single motherfucker of a VADER PUNCH. Mutoh goes down like someone just cut his legs off. You could reasonably think that Mutoh might be down for a while after that, but apparently Vader thought so too and underestimated the gas Mutoh was keeping in the tank. Mutoh goes on the offensive and sends Vader out of the ring again. The VADER PUNCH still had a hell of an impact on him but it was not going to be enough to give Vader an easy handful minutes to slog through the match unchallenged. Vader's next test is to see if he can ground Mutoh after another big blow, which whether on purpose or not, is a fucking perfect fit for the match up until this point. This is, again, Vader playing just a little more cautiously because he fears his opponent will be able to get a surprise burst on him and send him out of the ring again. He laps on a submission hold and thinks "perfect! His face is wide open!" Proceeds to dent noses and break teeth. He doesn't even get up off of him after Mutoh kicks out of a pin. Mutoh gets sent out of the ring, and can you guess what happens? Vader chases him out. This was the 5th or 6th time someone had been sent out of the ring and every time up until now, the opponent waited until they got back in. Vader knows what might happen if he does that again. In the perfect fit of destiny, Vader throws Mutoh back in the ring (after some stuff) and poses to the crowd. That gives Mutoh just enough time to land one single dropkick while Vader is on the apron, to send him to the floor. Mutoh is still just living on opportunities Vader is creating by not being aware enough. Vader was doing great while playing it safe, and the second he stopped to smell the roses, he paid for it. It's so fucking awesome how it feels like they worked this.

The finish stretch is super heated, whether somebody is bouncing off of the ropes at high speed or both guys are just 'there,' unable to figure out where to go next. The crowd were completely hanging on edge waiting for Mutoh to get his moment. There was one amazing fucking spot where it looked like he was absolutely ready to turn the tides after ducking a clothesline and grabbing Vader's hand, body positioned to chuck something (probably a clothesline or forearm), but Vader QUICKLY nails him. The crowd goes "Ahhhhhhhh" like "he nearly had it! Damn!" Shame the last batch of seconds aren't very good because of a no-sold move and a badly executed roll-up but to Hell and back if I'm going to pretend like the match suffers too much for it. I swear to fuck at times it felt like not ten seconds go by in this match without something cool happening. I could barely contain myself from spoiling everything that happened in it through writing this. Purely because it felt like I had to mention enough spots and moments, to truly get across how good the match is. I felt like I would have been missing something had I left any of this out - and I actually did backspace some stuff. I never would have imagined one of the Vader matches I have yet to see would have been on this level. Wait, isn't there a Vader/Fujinami from Germany I haven't watched yet? Well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader/Mutoh is indeed a tremendous match. Certainly has more than a few remnants of the Vader/Sting matches to come and it's Vader in full Monstor mode.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Barry Windham vs Steven Regal (WCW Worldwide 04/17/1993 or Power Hour 04/24/1993)

This is some excellent stuff. First portion features some very nice and aggressive mat work before they start trading holds. Both of them are super intense, esp Regal as he always is and it's a very very good match. Stiff match with big uppercuts by Regal and everything is very gritty. Lots of struggle by both and it's a super match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BEEF. VADER.

MUTOH PRAISE

I feel good just by reading that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck, HBK/Benoit from May 3rd 2004 Raw really is a fucking tremendous match. It's one of the best later era Shawn matches as he is excellent and aggressive with his offense and Benoit is at his very best throughout with his selling. The match builds and builds with great counters and a super finishing stretch. Benoit gets busted open too and they both work pretty snug in this. Yeah we get a smozzy finish with HHH showing up, but it doesn't take away from how much of a great match this is.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

What's everyone's thoughts on the Eddie vs. Rey series from 2005. These two couldn't have a bad match if they tried. There Smackdown match is probably in my top 5 in Smackdown history.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

rude awakening said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on the Eddie vs. Rey series from 2005. These two couldn't have a bad match if they tried. There Smackdown match is probably in my top 5 in Smackdown history.


The SmackDown match is my single favourite match ever. Great American Bash and Judgment Day are both fantastic. I was lukewarm on the ladder and cage matches, I should give them another look one day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey and Eddie... amazing stuff outside of their WM match which is fucking shite, and the ladder match is just "ok" at best. GAB is one of my all time favs from them though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio is all time favorite level stuff. Especially the aforementioned July SD match. Judgment Day '05 isn't far off either.Both are so tremendous. Cage is quite good, largely dig it for the finalization and vindication of Eddie getting the win.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

Eddie's heel work in 2005 was just tremendous in the ring with his mannerisms and how he just pushes Mysterio of the apron unexpectedly. Think he was the best wrestler in the world from 02 until his death.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow I forgot they had a match at Mania. Like I haven't thought it in a good five years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I highly recommend the two DiBiase/Magnum TA matches from 05/27/1984 in mid South. Amazing if they did indeed both happen on the same day. They're both house show matches but in excellent quality. First one does feature Jim Ross on commentary half way through the match.

The first one is just an awesome sprint fight. Lots of punches flying and Magnum gets busted open. Just a tremendous 10 minute brawl with both of them shining and you already get a sense of how great a babyface Magnum could be.

The second match is even better and plays beautifully off the first match but cranks up the intensity even more and once again, Magnum portrays such a great babyface and you and the whole crowd get fully behind his comeback. Dibiase of course deserves great credit too in his heel role in both, as he gets out a loaded glove and nails Magnum with it. Magnum gets busted open again in the same spot and it's a wonderful call back to the first match.

Two fantastic matches that play off each other perfectly. The first being a heavy sprint fight and the second taking tjat and cranking it up to produce two classics.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> The SmackDown match is my single favourite match ever. Great American Bash and Judgment Day are both fantastic. I was lukewarm on the ladder and cage matches, I should give them another look one day.


I genuinely think the Smackdown! match might be the best WWF/E match ever and there's never been a better single match performance in company history than Eddie's in that match. Fuck it.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

Definitely up there with Austin/Benoit. Another great one was Eddie vs. Big Show from 04. That might be in my top 5.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

rude awakening said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on the Eddie vs. Rey series from 2005. These two couldn't have a bad match if they tried. There Smackdown match is probably in my top 5 in Smackdown history.


Take nothing away from Rey's selling and general ability to rally as a babyface, but Eddie was on a different level during that run. Those two almost always have tremendous chemistry, but my goodness the icy, remorseless looks in Eddie's face matched by sadistic smiles as he performs callous actions like a brainbuster on the steps with perfect timing to defenseless Mysterio.

Hell, really everything with Eddie from 03-05 sans a few matches here and there ie: vs Angle at Summerslam was at least good, sometimes historically great imo. (not to take away Eddie's work at his best ring conditioning in the mid-late 90s). 

Though I can see Eddie following Benoit's lead as an extreme perfectionist, I find it fascinating how many of his peers note that Eddie wasn't anywhere near 100 percent and was breaking down during his magnum opus. What the hell would we have gotten if THAT wasn't 100 percent?

Eddie is just a truly special all-around talent really. Embodies the "born to wrestle" cliche. Hell, his pseudo-squash United States debut vs Terry Funk as a scrawny youngster in 89 is fun stuff.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I was more pissed that he died before he could shake off the I'm Your Papi bullshit. 

Took a break from my wrestling marathon, because frankly I was getting worn out. Gonna try some older shows in the near future, as I pretty much neglect anything pre96. The Attitude Era will always bring back amazing memories, however watching the PPVs made me hate quite a few people. Especially when they fought the same guys 270 times.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I never watched December to Dismember so in my mind, tonight's men chamber was the worst chamber I've ever seen.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

PPV sucked and was just as predictable as expected. Women's chamber wasn't too bad but that no sell from Sasha when she got hit with twisted bliss off the top of the pod was HILARIOUSLY bad. Post-match promo from Alexa was awesome.

I really pray to god that there's some form of major payoff down the line for both Nia and Braun because those two are fucking GREAT in their roles right now and they deserve to be champions immediately. 

Main event was a waste of 40 minutes. Cena is absolute ass and it's sad that the crowd doesn't even have a reaction when Roman wins these big matches anymore because we're so used to it. They don't even care enough to boo when obviously the wrong guy is going over.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Regal vs Kassius Ohno (WWE NXT 04/10/2013)

Yeah this is bloody excellent. Both of them are super aggressive and vicious throughout this and do some great body work. Esp Regal going after Ohno's hand and Ohno destroying the head of Regal, who was spot on with his selling. Top notch character work mixed with tremendous psychology makes for a tremendous match overall.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A post reminded me that I still need to watch some Evolution tags from Raw in '04. I did have a list ages ago but can't find it. I did note these down;

Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin (4/12)
Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Tajiri & Edge (05/03)
Benoit/Edge vs Orton/Batista (5/17)
Six Man Tag Team Elimination Match – Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge (6/14)
Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge (8/2)
Batista & Triple H vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho (12/13)

Any more?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chris Benoit vs Jeff Jarrett (WCW Starrcade 1999)

Fuck, I like a Jarrett match that doesn't involve HBK. Thought this was a v.good sprint of a ladder match. Yeah it's spotty, but it's only 10 minutes and it's a blast.

Bret Hart vs Goldberg (WCW Starrcade 1999)

In between all the shit, they tried at least. But 3 ref bumps, Bret getting legit decked and a stupid screwjob finish all in 12 minutes or so killed anything else.




















Shame this thread p.much died :mj2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@Yeah1993 @Hayley Seydoux

RE: The cb discussion from earlier. Culled these from the Yearbooks up until '93:



> Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Sting vs. Buzz Sawyer, Dragon Master & Great Muta (Power Hour 1/26/90)
> Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express (WWW 2/10/90)
> Rock & Roll Express vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (Main Event 2/18/90)
> Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express (Wrestle War 2/25/90)
> ...


:cozy


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Wow this thread really has died. Its a shame, seemed busy a month ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perhaps my swooning for WCW tag team matches last night is the shot in the arm to kick things up again. (Liger & Sasaki vs Steamboat & Douglas, OMG)

Passion has been lacking from me in everything lately; gots to fix that.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

okay so i am getting a 2010 PPV pack. i'm pretty sure 2010 got praised in here :side:

let's see how we go


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kenny said:


> okay so i am getting a 2010 PPV pack. i'm pretty sure 2010 got praised in here :side:
> 
> let's see how we go


You poor bastard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^ What he said. 2010 was definitely my least favorite year of the past decade.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If my sad ass can do it, Kenny can do it. I may have never finished that 2010 list but I got every PPV done and written up. ;smartassmonocle


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, at least there's activity in here :cozy


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Am I mistaken, I thought I remembered positive things about 2010. Or was that more about some raw/smackdown matches. 

What's the best year say from 2006-2010?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Depends on the brand, really. Memory wise I ALMOST want to say 2009, b/c Superstars, ECW, & Smackdown has good stuff throughout the year. But of course, this is the year the gimmick PPVs begin and took us down the rabbit hole of PG WWE that makes me (and I figure the lot of us) want to never want to witness much of the product anymore. So, you have to take the good w/the bad.

Chris Masters & Drew McIntyre in 2010 make that year not a total loss. :cozy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah 2010 had some good TV stuff scattered throughout the year. PPV wise is fucking awful.

2006 has Smackdown which is tremendous, but Raw sucks poo and early WWECW is mostly shit.
2007 is where Smackdown begins to fall of the rails, Raw gets a little better in places, and ECW is honestly unwatchable from memory.
2008... uhhh... ECW gets better as the year goes on thanks to HENRY. SD has a couple of gems but overall isn't worth watching. Raw is a thing.
2009 has GOAT WWECW, pretty good Smackdown, and one of the worst years of Raw up to that point. Oh and Superstars typically had one rocking match each week.

As far as PPV's for those years, they decline in quality each year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Caught a Henry vs Finlay match from late September 2008 the other day. Would need to go back and pay better attention, but what I saw was p. damn great. Henry's selling of a bum wrist/arm ruled. 

Then Triple H worked MVP on the same tapings for Smackdown, and absolutely no sold his arm work. Confirmed Henry already better than Trips pre-Hall of Pain.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry/Finlay have a fantastic street fight at Armageddon 08 btw


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know. :CENA

Well, idk how strongly I feel about it, but I know it happens.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still need to watch that Finlay/JBL match from WM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL vs Finlay rules. :mark:

Hilarious that the culmination of WWE scrambling to find a way to fix the fucked up Summer angle w/Vince was "let these two dudes beat the hell out of each other in a brawl at WM". Whatever it takes. It succeeded.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ric Flair vs Bobby Eaton (NWA Main Event 01/07/1990)

:done

Ok so this is still one of the greatest things ever. Fuck this match is tremendous. Eaton is his usual bumping machine self and heeling it up and Flair is equally as great as the babyface. Eaton does take some fantastic big bumps in this and he and Flair mesh perfectly.

This is definetly PPV calibre that somehow got lumped onto a B Show. Oh and it's also great to have Lance Russell on commentary too here for this one. You like Eaton? Then this isn't one you'd want to miss.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Bobby Eaton. :monkey

It's ok if that didn't make a PPV. Eaton was having classic Midnight matches on those, so TV he can kill it w/Flair and it's all good. :cozy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase (NJPW Explosion Tour 05/01/92)

:Vader

Fuck. I thought I loved the Vader/Bigelow vs Steiners match from that year a lot but this is tremendous too. Hase has a great fip segment and is a bloody mess. Vader and Bigelow are spectacular in this and of course you get plenty of Vader beating the shit out of people. He and Hase have a great punch exchange.

Highly recommended.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kenny said:


> What's the best year say from 2006-2010?


PPV wise? Probably 2007 for me. The Rumble, Wrestlemania, and Backlash are all really fuckin good and most of the rest of the PPVs at least offer 1-2 really good matches aside from like 2 or 3 shows.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never knew this happened last month lol






:monkey


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jerry Lawler vs Crusher Blackwell (CWA 05/04/81)

:jerry

Loved watching Blackwell work in this match. Need to watch more of him tbh, he moved really well here both on offense and with his bumping. A very enjoyable big man/little man match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just stumbled across this when i was randomly watching vids on youtube :lenny






i think i'll go watch their mania match now :cozy


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Didn't care about Fastlane at all going in but holy cow that was a good ass show.

Nakamura/Rusev - *** 1/2
Roode/Orton - *** 3/4 (loved the old school feel here)
Usos/New Day - *** 1/4 
Charlotte/Ruby - ***
Six Pack Challenge - **** 1/4

Usos/New Day was a ton of fun for 9 minutes with the move stealing and copy-catting but holy FUCK the beatdown from The Bludgeon Bros is one of the most memorable things I've seen in recent history in the 'E. That powerbomb on the steps to Xavier was fucking disgusting (really hope he's okay). That's how you make a god damn statement though.

Charlotte vs. Asuka sounds so ace and now this means Nia is getting her moment by going over Alexa. :mark:

Main event had me :marking: like a child after the stupid ass start (fuckin Cena). SO MUCH FUN. Sami Zayn was SO CLOSE to becoming WWE Champion. :lol

Styles vs. Nakamura is actually happening! :done


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it wasn't for Flip Gordon existing, Orton vs Roode would easily be my target practice to laugh at as one of the most unbearable things to witness this early into 2018.

Naturally, a horrendous PPV where the only thing that wasn't a bucket of shit was Usos vs New Day. Of course that had a non finish, so here we are.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having started WWF 2000 and watching how great those first 3 weeks alone are for the HHH/Cactus build :done Nor just the promo where Foley gimmick changes mid promo and that great look of Trips' face. Each week there's something between them to really crank it up to the Rumble including a tag match where Foley gets bloodied up and it's tremendous.

I'm now at their Rumble match :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm at Rumble 2000, too. We're on the same timeline now :monkey

That 8 man tag on RAW was real good; great post-match included. btw did you see the Jeff Hardy vs Bubba Ray Dudley match from the go-home RAW? My kind of 3 minute sprint.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did. I was going to say the build to the tables match was fun too and again, it culminated in a super fun carnage match at the Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was amazed (for lack of a better term) when it all seemed to take place in the span of a week. Maybe it had some legs in latter 1999 I'm forgetting, but still, it was a swift process to start a definitive tag team rivalry. Kept watching the build going "ok, it's gonna begin now." Then Jeff kept working Al Snow, and the go home week happened & it all escalated quickly. No complaints, of course. Love the Tables match. This is one of those memories that told me they captured lighting in a bottle almost in the blink of an eye.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm yet to watch the actual rumble match yet tho. Don't really remember much from it so I'll see how it holds up. But up until the main, the PPV as a whole is a super fun event overall. Great seeing that Tazz debut play out too again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say it's still the benchmark for the gimmick match.

Some credit to Survivor Series 2002's elimination match being the next best thing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs Hakushi (WWF Monday Night RAW 07/24/95)

I don't remember much from their IYH match but I thought this was very good, esp for a TV match. Bret was unappreciated during '95 but still managed to be involved in some very strong matches throughout the year. These two do work well with each other and get some time here to produce something good.

Bret takes a great back sliding bump into the ring post just before a commercial break. We get some really good, varied offense by both here too, including Bret doing a Vader type bomb and there's a great tiger drop at the end of the match.

Very enjoyable.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

been watching some mania stuff lately

hbk/flair :lenny
daniel bryan vs hhh :cozy
daniel bryan vs orton vs batista :mark:

might watch some more stuff later


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The other wrestling section confuses and scares me so I'm posting this here . I asked Andy aka GOD OF CUNT to tell me what he thinks are the best STAN HANSEN matches (one singles and one tag) and he gave me an extra tag match on top of that too. And when I was looking for the download links I found TENRYU/DiBiase and that interested me too so yeah. 

DiBiase Vs Tenryu 4/26/86

Pre-GRUMPY OLD BASTARD TENRYU is always weird to me, because it seems he spent most of his career as that lol. Anyway, DiBiase was great here with his arm work, always wrenching on the arm or lifting Tenryu up with it and slamming him back down etc; no lazy sitting in a hold here. Tenryu occasionally gets to fire back with some CHOPS that will make your chest bleed just watching them. Nice powerbomb from Tenryu who can't quite get Ted up properly cos of the bad arm, so it only gets a 2 count. Ted bumps around like you'd expect from a mid 80's Ted, even taking a big spill over the ropes just from being kicked off a spinning toe hold... from the middle of the ring! Eventually it all comes down to Ted trying to go for the spinning toe hold one too many times, and Tenryu counters with a roll up. Good 20 minutes spent here .

Jumbo/Tenryu Vs Hansen/DiBiase 12/12/86

Oh my word, I was NOT expecting this type of match! I know I haven't seen all that much from Japan in general, but most of it has been singles matches. The handful of tags I have seen have mostly been back and forth with plenty of BOMBS being thrown. This match though? Total STF all the way! Bell rings and Hansen just fucking blasts Tenryu and they both spill to the outside, while Dibiase goes after Jumbo. Tenryu plays FIP here and just gets mauled, and Hansen/DiBiase are fantastic at making sure no tag is made. They'll see Tenryu get too close to Jumbo and the one on the apron will dive in and smack into Tenryu or knock Jumbo off the apron, all the while Jumbo keeps getting frustrated and tries to get in the ring only for the referee to send him back out. Hot tag is finally made and Jumbo comes in like a man possessed. Love the spot with Jumbo running at DiBiase for a lariat, only for Hansen to tackle Ted to the mat and save him. They get to the floor, Ted holds Jumbo for Stan, who charges for the lariat and... Jumbo moves! Ted gets blasted with a Lariat after all! Tenryu runs up behind Stan, hits a back suplex on the floor as Jumbo rolls in to beat the count and get the win! And fuck me, this was only like 8 minutes long? Felt longer in the best of ways.

Hansen/Gordy Vs Tenryu/Kawada 12/16/88

Only been 2 years and Tenryu has aged 50 years to become GRUMPY OLD BASTARD TENRYU :mark:. Well, the early stages, but his grumpy old bastard ways are here. He isn't just taking a beating like he was the green rookie on his team any more, oh no. He's taking hits and getting pissed off and chopping the shit out of anyone in his way. And he's matching Stan Lariat for Lariat too :mark:. He absolutely murders Gordy with one at one point and its magnificent. Hansen loves to club the fuck out of everyone, while Gordy seems to be happy bumping like a lunatic for everyone lol. He takes a wonderful German Suplex from Kawada and that seems to be the turning point of the match, from less of a back and forth affair to OH GOD THE AMERICANS ARE TRYING TO KILL US. Hansen breaks up a pin from the German, then simultaneously shoves Kawada to the floor and Lariats Tenryu off the apron, and from there Gordy and Hansen are out to pearl harbor mofos. Kawada has a hurt leg but keeps trying to get at Hansen and Gordy, so whoever isn't in the ring has to keep fucking him up on the outside just to keep him down for a few minutes while they try and take care for Tenryu. Everything everyone does looks like it fucking hurts, and the crowd are really into the match too. None of that "silent" Japanese crowd we sometimes get here! They lose their shit every time Kawada goes for whoever is on the apron lol. In the end a massive, and I mean MASSIVE Lariatooooooooo from Hansen puts Tenryu away as Kawada still tries to climb into the ring to break it up. Wonderful, wonderful stuff right here.

Hansen Vs Kawada 2/28/93

Fucking hell, how many streamers did they let off before the match? The floor outside the ring looks like a rainbow! Meanwhile Hansen's face is gonna end up black and blue after some of those fucking kicks he takes right to the head! Ouch! Found it funny that early in the match they throw a few chops at each other and they looked pretty shitty compared to the likes of TENRYU... but once Stan throws his big clubbing blows and Kawada throws his kicks, everything looks mean and nasty. I guess they just aren't made for throwing chops lol. Loved the little spot on the floor where Hansen tries to back suplex Kawada, but Kawada holds onto the guardrail like a madman, then when Hansen looks to have given up, Kawada just rams him head first into the ring post! Did Hansen just dropkick Kawada? I think he did. Did Hansen just DIVE THROUGH THE ROPES ONTO KAWADA? Yes, he fucking did! What a crazy (but awesome) bastard! Hansen takes an absolute shit kicking in this match, and he sells everything amazingly. This is definitely the match you wanna show people how great Hansen could be. When Kawada starts slapping the shit out of Hansen in the corner, and Hansen just fires back with a single punch and Kawada is OUT :mark:. And then that POWERBOMB :mark:. That might be one of the best powerbombs I've seen, for a totally different reason to the Benoit/Eddie one. Oh my fucking god, THAT Lariat spot :mark:. Sweet jebus. The entire finishing stretch is so damn good. THAT is how you end a 20+ minute epic. I need a cigarette. Or a beer, since I don't smoke.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sounds like you neeeeeeeeeeeeed Will's Hansen Set, Cally


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I do. And the TENRYU set too. But those cost money. So, fack it . I downloaded a bunch more matches from you know where (you DO know where, right?) involving Hansen, and a few TENRYU matches that jumped out at me too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yea, he didn't get around to doing that big Tenryu set. Yet.

Think I'll join in and watch some Stan myself later. You should really check out that Jumbo match too I pimped in the cb.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you guys are in the mood for some Hansen, he puts on a great performance with one arm in this Champion Carnival Finals against Misawa:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen (AJPW, 3/27/88)

Here you go, Cal. You get Hansen and your favourite Japanese bloke Tenryu beating the piss out of each other. Stan is pacing up and down before the bell rings and can't wait to get his hands on Tenryu. But Tenryu gives as good as he gets here and it's just a big hoss battle. Tenryu lands a flying kick to Hansen, who immeditaly responds by crushing and damn near decaputating Tenryu with an elbow. Tenryu's eye geys busted open and is bleeding just a few minutes into the match. I love how vicious he was right back at Hansen though by going after the ribs. These two throw everything at each other with such intense aggression throughout the match. At one point, Hansen pins Tenryu but let's him up at a 2 count and just decides to punch the shit out of his face with such vigour and anger.

Yea, watch this shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already saw that Hansen/Tenryu match when I did my "5 Matches With Stan Hansen" post a while back . Got another 2 or 3 of their matches downloaded. And the whole HANSEN kick started because of that match you linked me the other day lol. Didn't realise I hadn't posted about it here:

Stan Hansen Vs Jumbo Tsuratu 10/21/86

Brock linked me this on WF earlier, here it is for anyone else who wants it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Pq0wlFO_o.

First half is a little slow and not too interesting. Hansen uses a nerve grip a lot which I fucking hate, but then things spill to the outside and Jumbo gets BUSTED WIDE OPEN and from there is a bloody brawl that makes my weiner feel funny. Hansen sees the blood on Jumbo and is determined to pound the fuck out of him more than ever afterwards, which eventually leads to Jumbo getting PISSED and does his best to smash Hansen's face in, which in turns busts him open too. There is one terrific spot where Hansen is on the floor and Jumbo is on the apron and he's just clubbing the shit out of Stan's head and he crumples to the floor like he's dead. And covered in ribbons. Jumbo is exhausted and can't really follow up, having bled for longer than Stan, but he keeps trying to fight. Another cool spot is where Hansen has a leg hold and Jumbo starts clubbing his face again, but gives up after a few blows and falls back onto his back cos he's fucking knackered. And that LARIATOOOOOOOO where Jumbo gets hit and doesn't fly back, he just kinda slides down Hansen like a sack of bricks or something. Roll up counter out of nowhere is a great way for Jumbo to get the win while still being half dead, and Hansen continuing to fuck him up after the bell is just what you'd expect from the wild bastard that is Stan Hansen. Just great stuff even if the first half is a little slow.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

going to rewatch some 2015 wwe ppv matches :mark: :lenny


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starting with Lesnar/Cena/Rollins then :banderas


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

yes :banderas


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So beyond my loop of PROGRESS/ 205 Live/NXT fixes I am not watching much wrestling, and I don't watch any other TV. Monster Hunter World was consuming my life, but the lack of an endgame and the endless grind has started to become a little exhausting. As such, after inspiration from the latest E&C Pod, I decided I'd go back and watch the "definitive" collection of Steve Austin Bret Hart matches on the Network to fill my time.

I have seen the Survivor Series '96 match before and I have obviously seen the Wrestlemania 13 match many a time, but I will be seeing other stuff for the first time so that should be a lot of fun. Things like the hidden gem South Africa match which I will be talking about in this post, there are also two IYH matches and a match on Raw which I will also be seeing for the first time down the line, too. 

Bret Hart was never a wrestler I cared much for as a kid, but as an adult who has fallen in love with pro wrestling as an art form, I love how ahead of his time he was. His match against Roddy Piper from WrestleMania VIII for the IC belt has gone on to become one of my all-time favourites after watching it with adult eyes. 

Austin at this point is still transitioning into the real Stone Cold, coming to the ring with some ill-fitting music, and as such is working a much more deliberate, technical, style than the brawling, Stunner a minute style he did during his later years after Owen broke his neck. Interestingly, Owen is on commentary for this one too. 

The match itself was honestly rather dull if I am being honest. We get almost a solid ten minutes of Austin putting Bret into headlocks, Bret managing to break out, only to be transitioned back into a headlock again. Austin is heeling it up so he might have done this just to piss off the crowd, but regardless it doesn't make for particularly compelling viewing, even if the crispness of some of Hart's counters are beautiful. The match does pick up intensity and pace towards the end, but the flat finish hits just as the match seems to be getting going, luckily we know the best is still to come. 

I will say though that I do like in these old school matches that kayfabe is very much still alive. Crazy flips to pop the crowd have their place for sure but a match that tries to be real and tell a great story will always have a much more lasting resonation with an audience and with me personally too. There is a reason matches like the Hart/Austin WrestleMania 13 match is still studied by wrestlers two decades later while 95% of last year's indie matches have already been forgotten about. And if remembered, are usually remembered infamously rather than anything else.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Skipping ahead two months later from the South Africa match we come to Survivor Series of '96, the real starting point of the brief but crucial Bret/Austin feud which would light the fire to allow Steve Austin to evolve into the Stone Cold we all love who set the world alight. This match has mixed responses from fans, but Hart himself is very positive about this match, citing it as comparable to the Wrestlemania 13 match. 

The match out of the gate has a much more significant feel to it than their South Africa match but otherwise, it is still a very similar match, and as such my feelings are mostly the same. 

I love that kayfabe is still by and large alive, so Hart and Austin sell everything, and it doesn't undermine either guy that they are always bumping and feeding for one another, but what it does do is make the match far more interesting. There is an actual story being woven here, that psychology is why a match like this is still remembered yet a "bunchamoves" indie match which blurs by in a series of meaningless flips is forgotten as soon as the match is over. 

All that being said, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the match is very limp and a lot of the match is very dull thanks to its drag ass pacing. It does pick up towards the end, but it seems the finish arrives just as the match feels like it is getting going, just like before. The finish was botched here too as neither of Austin's shoulders were on the mat. Vince McMahon is also fucking atrocious on commentary for this match, too, and that can drag things down.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

The next stop on my Hart/Austin journey is a match I have never seen before, but a match that was far too tantalising to pass up on. A match which sees Hart and Austin share a ring with Vader and The Undertaker in a Four Corners Elimination Match for the vacant WWE Title. A match which once again sees the Hart/Austin feud have the stakes raised. 

The commentary for the match is awful, I hate the WWE style commentary where the in-ring action is kinda lacking so they just scream hyperbole into your ears to try and make what you are looking at seem more interesting than it is. 

Speaking more specifically of the match itself, while the body of the match wasn't great, every elimination was pitch perfect storytelling. After the shenans at the Rumble, what a moment to have Hart eliminate Austin first by dumping him over the top rope. Only for Austin to later come back and indirectly help Hart to win the match. I have no context for 'Taker/Vader but there are feuding around and through this match too, so what a moment when Taker stops Hart eliminating Vader so he can later counter the Vader Bomb with a bunch to the balls, sending Vader over the rope and out of the match. The deceptive athleticism of Vader and 'Taker really made them the stars of this match. Oh and holy shit they also have Sid watching the TV like a real person.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I know I have been quite critical of the matches on this Hart/Austin journey but if there is such a thing as a perfect match, their Submission Match at Wrestlemania 13 is that. 

The last four encounters (plus any meetings on Raw) all functioned as the perfect dummy runs in the name of making this final product the best it could be. In the most general of senses, when looked at with modern eyes, the wrestling may seem very basic when concerning the pure athleticism but it is the masterclass of storytelling and emotion that Hart and Austin showcase here which is the exact reason people can make the argument that wrestling is art, which is why this match feels timeless. Two fully fleshed characters going to war in a fully realised story. 

Plus that finish. That finish. 

Featring some of the most iconic visuals in wrestling history this finish is just... HNNG. 

Austin screaming in agony, blood pouring down his face, into his mouth and onto the mat. Behind him, the man billed as the "World's Most Dangerous Man", the only man who WWF trust to officiate this match, has a face of pure terror at the state of Austin but still, Austin fights. Austin breaks the Sharpshooter, but again, Hart fights too, refusing to let go. Austin doesn't give up, he succumbs. Submitting through losing consciousness. Something which is perfectly foreshadowed by Lawler earlier in the match, albeit probably unintentionally. Just perfection. 

With hindsight, the match can also be looked at as allegory for the broader story of the WWF at the time, trying to fight against the inevitable coming tide that was the Attitude Era. An act of defiance in the name of adding colour to enhance the drama of their match ended up being a perfect omen of an era to come. In kayfabe this was captured by heel Austin walking out the hero, while fading face Hart brutally transitions into monster by the end. 

Only real criticism with this match is my same criticism with this year's Omega/Jericho... why are there rope breaks? This is an I Quit match, rope breaks make zero sense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe it was mentioned in passing, idk, but I have to mention it now: THUNDER finally added on the Network. 

Ok, it isn't every edition yet, but still, it's there. Shouldn't be too long before they complete it. More TV gems from WCW :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm excited by that information


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Pizzamorg said:


> I know I have been quite critical of the matches on this Hart/Austin journey but if there is such a thing as a perfect match, their Submission Match at Wrestlemania 13 is that.
> 
> The last four encounters (plus any meetings on Raw) all functioned as the perfect dummy runs in the name of making this final product the best it could be. In the most general of senses, when looked at with modern eyes, the wrestling may seem very basic when concerning the pure athleticism but it is the masterclass of storytelling and emotion that Hart and Austin showcase here which is the exact reason people can make the argument that wrestling is art, which is why this match feels timeless. Two fully fleshed characters going to war in a fully realised story.
> 
> ...



It's a submission match, not an I quit match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's hilariously splitting hairs when its clear it was the precursor to the I Quit match. It even had no DQ, but semantics, baby. Lets quote that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Obfuscation said:


> Maybe it was mentioned in passing, idk, but I have to mention it now: THUNDER finally added on the Network.
> 
> Ok, it isn't every edition yet, but still, it's there. Shouldn't be too long before they complete it. More TV gems from WCW :mark:


Saturday Night added too .


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Obfuscation said:


> That's hilariously splitting hairs when its clear it was the precursor to the I Quit match. It even had no DQ, but semantics, baby. Lets quote that.


They even call it an I Quit match on commentary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Saturday Night added too .


I just saw this. They started w/1992 :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Takeover was AWESOME, as per usual.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Mania 34

Balor/Rollins/Miz-***3/4
Asuka/Charlotte-***3/4
US 4 Way-***
Ronda/Kurt vs Steph/Hunter-****1/4
Usos/New Day/BB-**
Taker/Cena-*1/2
Bryan/Shane vs KO/Sami-***1/4
Nia/Alexa-*1/2
AJ/Nak-***1/2
Raw Tag Titles-*
Brock/Roman-**1/4

This show started off so promising and then nosedived off a cliff. The booking was bad even by today's WWE standards. Who would have thought that the mixed tag would be MOTN and rather easily too. 

Both main events underdelivered but Brock/Roman was a trainwreck. No matter what your thoughts on the match were going in I think we all atleast expected a better match as their 31 match was fantastic. 

Styles and Nak tried but couldn't recreate their magic with a burntout crowd. Bryan return was amazing even though the decision to take him out of the 1st half was beyond stupid. 

Overall I would say a 5.5/10 show. Which is extremely disappointing especially considering how strong it began.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Balor/Rollins/Miz- ***1/4
Asuka/Charlotte- ***1/2
US 4 Way- *1/2
Ronda/Kurt vs Steph/Hunter- ***1/4
Usos/New Day/BB- ***
Taker/Cena-**1/2
Bryan/Shane vs KO/Sami-**1/4
Nia/Alexa-*
AJ/Nak-***1/4
Raw Tag Titles-*1/2
Brock/Roman- DUD

Might be the worst Mania main event of all time. SD Women's Title match MOTN of me. I enjoyed Taker's squash of Cena. Mixed tag was surprisingly really good. Overall not a bad show.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Not much discussion in here. I guess that means it's time for...

*SELF INDULGENT CYNICAL WALLSOFTEXTMANIA 2018~!
Aka the night where I'm glad I didn't stay up through the previous night to the morning before*

- Proudly presented by: Fuck Your Star Ratings

Mania 34 was largely a disaster with a few bright spots, with some down right bizarre situations I just can't sum up without nuanced comments.

IC title match was largely your usual meh formulaic spotty triple threat WWE match, which will probably be overrated to high heaven because of the three people involved and the fact that the crowd was hot because it was an opener. Finishing stretch was fun though, even if it just felt like spamming moves. Two years in a row Miz has let me down by failing to be a great heel when I know he can be. Amazing babyface booking from WWE, having Balor lose right after associating himself with the LGBTQ type group, akin to Davey Boy Smith at One Night Only in Manchester 97. Having said that Rollins really should be winning these types of matches if he's to be a true top guy.

Charlotte vs Asuka was decent but would have been WAY better if Charlotte was working heel, because she's just so much better in that role. Still a nice babyface though. Finish didn't shock me at all because I knew WWE would throw out swerves. Plus they're high on Charlotte and it wouldn't be WWE if WWE didn't try to force a repeated version of an organic moment, with a streak ending in the superdome at Mania again. I'm split on Charlotte winning. On one hand I just think there's so much more upside to Charlotte as an all around talent. Not to mention it's refreshing to see WWE continue to put stock into a talent that is actually over and comes across as a star, while doing it on a huge stage. Look at the crowd reaction afterwards, she's a star if handled properly. Most other people in that position are rejected while the fans shit on the finish, but those with Charlotte's level of overness aren't. Then again, this wouldn't have been necessary if Road Dogg and pals hadn't booked her into oblivion, with worse handling than he and Double J gave that fuckern Bruce Pritchard meme song at the hall of fame. Obviously this does nothing for Asuka. She can be built up again but really you lose a lot of what made her such an attraction by beating her at her first Mania. Undefeated heel (after a slow turn) Asuka vs undefeated Rousey would have been something special, especially with how good a start Ronda got off to last night, but there you go. Heel Charlotte vs Rousey would be good and I suppose Charlotte vs Rousey wouldn't totally blow during promos like Asuka vs Rousey would, although that means Charlotte has to go to raw and swap with Nia, not that I'm against it. 

US title four way was close to the worst thing on the main show. This was pre-show material before rusev was added, so of course WWE beat him because getting overly organically is WRONG in their eyes. Match would have sucked even if Rusev had won. Orton does nothing for me as a babyface (nice heel tease with the crowd reaction though) and Bobby Roode hasn't impressed me since he cut a firey promo on Hogan and Flair (iirc) in tna back in 2011. The definition of bland. Jinder sucks, but I guess some heels had to win and this was the lesser of all evils? 

Mixed tag was match of the night and I'm tempted to call it a classic, although I need to watch it again minus first time viewing hyperbole. You see that Steph? That's how great you could be if you were more giving as a heel instead of just cutting everyone off at the nuts. Great heel work from her, which really made the match. HHH showing ass to Ronda and stooging in that face off popped me too. I might end up calling this my favourite hhh Mania match ever, which isn't saying much, but also doesn't suggest this match wasn't great. Angle was sensible and worked within his physical limitations, was mostly in the right place at the right time and didn't blow any spots, which based on my very low expectations of him is a huge thumbs up. Ronda was fuckern incredible though and completely held up her end of the babyface bargain. She looked a natural in there in terms of; working the crowd; getting fired up; timing and positioning. I had worried that this match would totally blow because of the babyface team sucking in the ring and HHH and Steph being selfish, but I was completely wrong. Crowd was hot and rightly so. A big success for WWE right here. Well done.

I had to look up what happened next because I had completely forgotten... And yeah it doesn't surprise me now having looked it up. New Day vs The Usos was the match we should have been given, with how hot those teams have been over the last year or longer. Yes, their feud was kind of done with, but it's not like what we got instead was better or even as good. Even worse was that the triple threat match was a glorified squash played out in front of a largely dead crowd. Well done damaging two of your most over acts on the biggest stage WWE. That's not to say that I'm not a fan of rowan and Harper, I think they're great. But, the bludgeon brothers' gimmick is rancid and they have zero heat. This match and result didn't change that and therefore was a waste of others opportunities. The Usos certainly deserve better after the year they've just had, even if it meant putting over another team in a good competitive match where they could get over in defeat.

Cena had me hyped up for the Taker match with the type of salesmanship that very few others can provide. It just goes to show we are all marks at heart in the right circumstances. The actual mania show pre-match shenanigans were goofy fun although it was all very predictable. Taker finally coming out was a cool moment, which wore off quite quickly as I had to sit through his entrance which sadly wasn't quite as quick. The squash was even worse, but seeing how physically limited Taker looked in even that short of a match, I will take a squash over a forced epic, especially with the modern indyriffic pwg bullshit version of Cena as the opponent. Taker kind of had to win given the circumstances, but really so did Cena. His star power has been so diminished during the failed Reigns push, to the point that nobody was really shocked when a broken down non-Streak having Taker beat him in the time he did. For all of those idiots who moaned about Cena consistently going over their flavours of the month over the decade previous to Summerslam 2014, that's why WWE booked him that way. Look, charisma, promo skills, good matches (well, before 2015...) and strong booking = STAR. Cena is still over but he just does not feel like a star anymore. That is the major downside compared to the minimal upside of guys like Owens and Del Rio having their random wins. I know it's a mocked meme on here about turning Cena heel, but at this point that would actually revitalise him. The way I would do it would be the only way I would want to see Taker again (and that's at a push) too. Cena says "you didn't answer my call outs on Raw, but you show up on the day when I'm sat in the crowd drinking beer? What kind of a man are you? Not a dead man, but a scared man who knows he couldn't beat me given proper preparation. I wanted to give these fans what they wanted, but you've short changed them and humiliated me. Now I want to humble your bitch ass" (Obviously that's paraphrasing because that's just a half baked thought on the spot and really I hate scripted promos, but you get the gist). Then after Cena spends the year calling Taker out, both men eventually agree to go one more time, knowing that essentially "this company ain't big enough for the both of us." Both men put their careers on the line. Then when it comes to the match, Taker shines just as he did last night, only for Cena to cut him off and force a ref bump. Cena takes advantage and beats taker with a chair, making him bleed profusely, before finishing him off for good. Taker goes out in a glorified angle (better than a fucking squash though) but has some actual use in doing so. Then Cena is re-heated for the next face of the company elect to conquer at Mania 36, aka Braun (more on this in a bit) after he murders Brock (or Reigns) at Mania 35. Hopefully for me this comes true, like my prediction for the 2 in 23 match happening at Mania 34, which I made in one of the versions of this thread right after Mania 33 ended (not that I wanted that though). Obviously you can change things within that to your own tastes (example: Rollins/AJ/Bryan instead of Braun) and flesh it out with more effort than me rambling on a tired Monday night, but I think it's fair to say that Cena as he is right now is fairly redundant. As a side note: It absolutely sucks that this is what we were given, particularly in comparison to our dreaming and fantasy booking Cena vs Taker in an I Quit or Submission match at mania for the streak, all those years ago.

Daniel Bryan's return was the reason why I watched this show in the first place, when I was otherwise fairly adamant that I would sit it out, or just put it off for a while at least. The tag match he was in meant nothing to me without his inclusion. So of course WWE booked him to have a hokey injury in a desperate attempt to create shitty forced WWE drama and sympathy (surely nobody bought it right off the bat of Bryan being cleared), when all we wanted was a strong Bryan shine segment and then a hot tag after Shane got caught in a short fip segment. We didn't even get a properly hot tag because the crowd was demoralised by the shitty tone deaf booking, but at least they were hot for the finishing stretch. Match was mediocre overall, but who really cares about that? This was all about seeing Daniel Bryan in a ring again, making his glorious organic comeback on the same site that hosted the greatest night in his career. This was far from perfect but I was happy, Bryan won and there was no horse shit heel turn swerve from Shane to fuck up the victory, even though he needs to be heel long term or just go away.

Jax vs Bliss was actually half decent, although I'm sure most WF posters will shit all over it because of who was involved. The Nia on Mickie beat down was good, the actual match structure and face/heel dynamics were on point, while the finish was hot and a perfect example of how saving one high spot for the finish can get you more over than a bunch of them spammed senselessly to diminishing returns. Criticisms are largely down to execution. Bliss is either scared of bumping or has bad technique, I'm not sure which without knowing how her mind works. Some of Nia's offence looked weak, particularly at the end where she looked gassed and had the explosiveness of a Malteser farted on by a frog. The other issue was the crowd. Nia wasn't really over to begin with and Alexa does sometimes struggle to garner heel heat in spite of sometimes showing good heel work. I also sensed that this was the point where the crowd was starting to become weary, roughly 5 1/2 hours into the overall show. These super shows are just far too long for anyone's good, especially with so many "moments" crammed into the first half. Less is more. Fans were receptive to Nia's win which was nice, but I can see her turning back heel sooner rather than later, to be chased by the next WWE management golden girl babyface flavour of the quarter in line. Ultimately none of this will matter, 'twas ever thus.

Styles vs Nakamura is another match which I expect to be overrated to hell by "certain fans", despite being a boring mess. If that's the case then it really suggests to me that marks really do still exist and they're certainly not smart. I mean, NJPW booking and Dave Meltzers' subjective opinion has many convinced that Okada is the greatest wrestler since sliced bread was carried by Ric Flair (and no I don't think Ric Flair is the greatest either before anyone pipes up). Also refer to my comments about the ic title opener. Where the previous match had structure, this match really didn't. A bunch of meaningless back and forth awkwardness with a flat finishing stretch and a cold finish. It was a poor man's version of the overrated Cena/Styles matches without the benefit of a hyped crowd. I did predict this match would suffer from a lack of heat (months ago in the smackdown section) and I was proven correct, not that I'm happy about it because I ended up sitting through the tedious experience. Obviously the tiring audience hurts this a lot too, but it still sucked (to me) regardless. Where I had mixed feelings on Charlotte winning, I'm 100% fine with AJ winning as it should have always been the case. That's not to say that it's an ideal situation that he beat Nakamura, far from it actually. Both guys should have had star making matches vs heels in front of the widest 'special event' audience, fuck your so called 'dream matches'. AJ needed a HUGE win as a babyface at Mania in a big match to cement his status as top dog on Smackdown, particularly against a top heel who could put him in a star making situation. Nakamura needed a much lesser rub but a rub none the less. Him being in this match was always a problem, because of the lack of heat, the predictable horribly limited build, the issue of who goes over and more importantly, how badly WWE and Nakamura himself have presented Nakamura since the call up to the main roster (shout out to @seabs who called this happening). The entrance is over but more often than not fans are quiet during his matches, which was even the case during some takeovers. It's a problem that not many of his fans are willing to talk about. I say this as someone who loved the version of Nakamura we saw at WrestleKingdom most years. Swagsuke was awesome. The WWE version though is awful and I include Nakamura's in ring efforts with that, the last match of his I genuinely enjoyed was vs Zayn at Takeover: Dallas. Unlike others, I'm also quite down on his WWE theme, which is absolutely lame compared to subconscious IMO. The raw sexuality of the guitar version last night, plus the cool entrance, kind of reminded me of the WrestleKingdom version of Nakamura that we haven't seen in WWE, only for the match to bring me back down to Earth. The heel turn is... Interesting. The crowd booed vociferously, although I can't be sure whether it was heat put on Nakamura or the company for perceived bad booking after a disappointing match. I think it's the former but time will tell. At least a heel Nakamura sorts the issue of awkward feuds vs opponents who range from poor to average on the mic, if he's given a heel manager. As a side note, Vince McMahon gave a very subtle message tonight: WWE >>>>>> Japanese wrestling. Read into that however you want. I completely expected Nakamura to win after Asuka lost.

Going into the raw tag titles match I was already quite bitter about how WWE were using Strowman, but had quelled that angst somewhat with the thought that Joe might return as his mystery tag partner. That would have absolutely made the match, with Joe returning to a huge pop, making his first Mania appearance, in a stiff chaotic tag affair, in front of a rapturous crowd. The thought of Braun and Joe losing the belts later on and feuding due to it kind of deluded me into thinking this was the correct place for Strowman, although I don't think I ever really accepted that under the surface. Braun came out, did his usual stunt schtick and I was content to watch him terrify human bobble head jesters and go on a rampage with Joe. Then Nicholas happened. I'm still not sure exactly where I stand on this. On one hand, this is the kind of garbage that justifies those who shit on wrestling, the type of stuff that I would be mortified to be seen watching by other people. On another it indicates to me that WWE are going to make a big attempt to get Braun over with the kids, which means a huge babyface push on top, which is GREAT. Braun + random kid from the crowd could be a staple at house shows for the foreseeable future, which would help him win over that demo (and therefore the parents). Seeing the kid have his moment in front of a hot and receptive crowd was also kind of cool because we were all kid fans once, so from a diplomatic PoV it was sweet. I also find the "big tough giant cares for little people (Alexa)" character dynamic kind of neat. But it also means that WWE are likely to strip away a lot of what got Braun over in the first place, which could mean the crowd turns on him, as he morphs into a cheesy pandering goofball (see: Cena 05-06). It's just the way WWE do business now and it sucks in terms of the overall product, but it is what it is.

The main event was as horrid as the nonsense angle leading into it. Briefly touching on the latter subject, if you're going to do a worked shoot, be consistent with it and don't mix it with hokey standard WWE style angles in alternate weeks. Also, if you want to book Reigns in a shoot, don't make him call another wrestler the golden boy, that's just stupid. Even with those major negatives, put a hot babyface in place of Reigns (Braun, Styles, Bryan) and it's a hot angle. Instead you end up with a glorified heel vs heel match as your mania main event... As for the match, I was very open minded going in, as I LOVED the mania 31 main event. However, this was horrible for a multitude of reasons. First of all, where the California crowd was receptive to the 31 match (in spite of Reigns), the fans in Louisiana outright rejected this one; chanting CM Punk/boring, booing both wrestlers, paying more attention to the crowd shenanigans, etc. Then Brock started being reckless with Reigns, dropping him on his head, botching a throw into the announce table and dropping him on his shoulder. There's stiff and there's dangerous. Dangerous just takes me out of a match. Then there was the first F5 kick out, which was supposed to create a huge shock after Brock killed Joe and Braun with just one F5 in each of those singles match. In reality? The crowd didn't give the slightest shit, which made those instances a complete waste of time. On that note, of course this was the match where WWE allowed blood! Think of how it could have helped that Joe/Balor match where Joe threatened to have a career best performance, only to be halted. Or even Gargano vs Ciampa which would have been heightened. But no, everything is wasted on Reigns, because of desperate yet ultimately futile attempts to get him over. Vince would drag his nutsack through a mile of broken glass just to get Roman cheered by a few dozen soccer mums (Just turn the fucker heel, make him wear a white suit, shades, a Rolex and Ron Atkinson style bling, while having Vince as his manager, playing up to fan perceptions of Reigns being the golden boy. It would be great; just look at Reigns in NXT and FCW). All of that was bad enough, but we were also given several more F5 kick outs, which took the match into forced epic territory, only for the crowd to shit all over it. Reigns would go to kick out again... But wait he didn't? I'm not going to lie, this was the moment where the WWE fed me a scrap of hope that this horrible forced babyface push (and I like Reigns, but come on...) is going to come to an end. I was happy, even though I've largely been as sick of Brock for the past three years as I have been with the Reigns push. Then I started putting the pieces together and realised that this would be perfect for Braun! A potential Reigns heel turn (okay, optimistic) and the opportunity to be the guy to beat Lesnar? Wow! Then I took my mark hat off, as it sunk in that WWE just wasted a year of raw for absolutely no pay off. They ruined the momentum of guys like Braun (and Joe) for nothing. They threw away the opportunity to have regular universal title matches on 'special events' for a whole year. That little thing called the streak, that the guy from the funeral parlour had at these events for quite a few years? Yeah, needlessly broken by Brock (after he lost to Cena and died in the horrid HHH feud), with the remnants smashed up by Reigns, just for it all to be swept up and put in the bin. How appropriate that modern WWE is absolutely garbage.

Until next year everyone :cool2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Andre Battle Royal: *1/4
Alexander/Ali: **3/4
Women's Battle Royal: DUD
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miz/Rollins/Balor: * _(sorry guys but I did not like this match whatsoever)_
Charlotte/Asuka: ***1/2
Orton/Mahal/Rusev/Roode: *
Angle & Ronda/Trips & Steph: ***3/4-****
Usos/New Day/Bludgeon: **1/2
Cena/Taker: LMAO _(very fun stuff, though)_
Bryan & Shane/Steenerico: **3/4-***
Alexa/Nia: **
Styles/Nakamura: ***
Bar/Strowman & *NICHOLAS*: *1/4
Lesnar/Reigns: DUD

That Main Event was a DUD if there ever was one. What a piece of utter trash, it somehow managed to be worse than the last two Reigns Main Events :lmao.

That aside, the show wasn't bad overall. A lot of ups and downs, and the downs were hilariously bad, but there was plenty of middle of the road decent/good stuff too, and both Charlotte/Asuka and the Mixed Tag match were really fucking good. Best WM since 30 (which saying much, since 31 and 33 were mediocre and 32 was Godawful).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wrestlemania-34-ppv-ramblings/


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

They're going to do the Reigns coronation in Saudi Arabia aren't they? :lmao Someone told me about the rematch in the chat box, crushing all my hopes and dreams within a couple of hours :hoganinbred this fucking company will literally try anything to get Reigns over for one night :lmao

Drag those balls over the glass shards for ROMAN, Vince

:vince3

Looking forward to seeing how wwe's glaad partnership and women's revolution goes over there :bosque


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lesnar/Reigns is indeed gonna happen again at the Saudi Arabia thing. This level of stubbornness by a company is just unprecedented. And idiotic. THEY. WILL. NOT. GIVE. UP. They just won't. They just have to make Roman the grand babyface, no matter how many times they've failed. Even Nicholas would make Reigns turn heel if he immediately took over booking royalties.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Vince's feelings when a 10-year-old kid got more over in one night than Roman ever has.

:vince7


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The only way this is redeemable is if Roman does beat Lesnar and then Heyman turns on him only to join Roman. Yes, Roman heel turn, but that's the best option. Build to heel Reigns vs face Braun or Bryan and you got the makings of a massive sized ME worthy match for WM next year. I'd even take heel Reigns vs Goldberg or Angle over face Reigns vs anything, for fuck's sake.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Even with it being in Saudi Arabia, I still wouldn't be all that surprised if Lesnar retained again so it doesn't take all the focus off of the 'Greatest Royal Rumble' which who knows what that will even mean in the end. At this rate with him re-signing, I wouldn't put it past Vince to keep the belt on him even longer so he can break Punk's 434 day title reign (Lesnar is currently at 372 so with one more defense he's pretty much guaranteed to break it). Who knows though.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*You know I didn't totally hate the show. I mean it out flat out sucked but it got so goofy bad that I got a kick out of how goofy bad it was.

Love how WWE weren't even pretending the Andre Battle Royal wasn't anything more than everyone who they don't care about right now. Kane sucks and all but it was kinda sad throwing him in here. These battle royal's don't mean zilch so just use them to give an over babyface the win. This (especially in hindsight) should have been Braun eliminating literally everyone or at least Rusev winning so people can chant Rusev Day while he celebrates and donkey fucks Lana in the middle of the ring before going back to Sam Roberts not knowing what the fuck to say because Kevin Dunn never trained him for this level of debauchery. 

Alexander/Ali wasn't all that good even if you factor out the lack of crowd interest. 205 Live is pretty much always good matches in front of dead crowds and this wasn't close to the standard they've set post Enzo. Not much worse than going for dramatic storytelling in a match that nobody gives a shit about.

Thought the Women's Battle Royal was honest to god one of the worst matches I've ever seen. So many of those women are super uncoordinated. The NXT spot might be the cringiest thing WWE have ever done and that's a very high bar. Ugh. Becky getting an elimination that the commentators forget to acknowledge as it happens is pretty sad. Sasha/Bayley thing kinda sucked. I'm not sure who I'm supposed to like or what the story being told is. Finish was super wtf. Classic babyface tactic to sit on the floor and then pounce when the last person thinks they've won. They did this at the Rumble too but the men never do it where the women can't all be in the ring together and they all have to fall under the ropes to make room in the ring and then come back in when it's their turn. It's so weird. Naomi won the Champions League which makes City/Liverpool tomorrow feel a bit pointless.

3 way was perfectly fine and I guess good if you're into any of them guys. Balor's entrance was so cringey. THE BALOR CLUB IS OPEN TO EVERYONE. Nail, meet head. Smirked at Balow working Mania and getting no paint job. 

Charlotte/Asuka was really good and on it's way to being great until the finish. Booking wise it sucked but I thought it stopped short of being great because of how sudden and anti-climatic it was. Felt like they were at the end of the middle stretch about to go into the hot home run and then it ended abruptly. Work was good though. Suplex spot was gnarly. Asuka had a bunch of submission attempts that all looked like they could be a surprise finish because of how unique they looked. Spanish Fly looked terrifying at first but then totally safe on the replay. Looked wierd due to Asuka being on the middle rope not the top rope and having less time to rotate than Charlotte had. Booking sucked. I thought for sure keeping Asuka undefeated on SD and having Rousey tear through Raw before main eventing Mania next year because fuck yeah women would be the direction but I guess they want Rousey/Charlotte. Felt a lot like NXT built this streak up for Asuka and then she got to the main roster and Vince saw it as a burden not an asset and wanting out of it asap because god damn it what if I want Liv Morgan to beat her on SD next week? At least give her something on the main roster before ending it because what the streak ended up being was essentially built up in the developmental promotion and then over as soon as it became a thing on the main roster. Asuka now goes to being just another name on the roster who transitions in and out of relevance depending on when she's challenging for the title, much like Sasha has been. Post match was kinda odd. Asuka spoke to the hard cam rather than Charlotte and basically shouted everything making it seem completely ingenuine. Neat sell of the streak ending by laughing at Cena charging up the ramp. 

4 way had 3 guys nobody care about and Rusev so naturally Rusev was pinned by the one of the three everyone cares the least about. 

Mixed tag ruled but I absolutely hated Stephanie having better defence for the armbar than most MMA fighters. Take that out and this was awesome. Cole's "now that's a WrestleMania entrance" made me vomit. Started off pretty hideous and I was worried we were getting ten minutes of Hunter/Angle flopping before Ronda comes in and runs rampant and wins in a minute. Once Ronda got in this was great from there on though. Amazing fire. The aura is obviously there but it totally transitioned into a wrestling match here with her sense of urgency. Steph's old school heel shtick was great and I was even fine with her getting little moments of offence in on Ronda like the ring post spot and the eye claw but they just couldn't show enough self restraint and not turn into some Jui Jitsu master. Even Hunter gave his arm up easier. It's WWE and sitting in armbars is a thing but it's Ronda and it should be instant death the moment she goes for it. None of this clasping the arms to hold it off. That said the slow break of the grip on Steph and Steph seeing her life leave her body at the end was brilliant. It's such a shame they had Kurt wrestle before this because it felt like he meant absolutely nothing but he also largely sucked so whatever. Very amused at how Hunter shows more ass in the ring for Ronda than basically any of his other big match opponents. The Rousey run is off to a flier. The fans were super into her and she looked like the killer badass she should be (armbar nonsense aside). Hopefully she can put an actual match together with those tools but really I'm down for her just steamrolling everyone for the next year before working the big try to make this great match. 

New Day match was really a glorified squash which was too bad for The Usos but they did at least make Harper and Rowan look great. The gimmick is way too corporatised with their perfect costumes and choreographed entrance but they're still a good monster team in the ring. All that said this is one of the matches that should be a big match on the post Mania SD and kicked off of Mania to keep the run time down to something that doesn't kill the crowd by the end.

I didn't get Cena in the front row but the Cena in the crowd stuff was just about goofy enough to scratch my itch. The Elias troll job was great, or would have been if it didn't feel like everyone going to Mania wanted to cheer him and join in with his shtick. It's a shame they gave him a catchphrase because he was a super heel until then. The build to this on paper was horrific but I really enjoyed it. It was different and even though you know where it was going you never knew how. As for the match I found it hilarious and completely farcical but I wasn't all that excited for a forced epic here so I could laugh it off. That said wow. Don't get the argument that it was nice for Taker to get to come back and look good again after the last couple of years because this for me screamed even louder than last year that the dude should stop coming back. Honestly I think doing nothing would have been better than doing this. More fuel for my Cena don't give a flying fuck no more theory. Imagine telling Hogan he was doing this. Maybe if Taker hadn't waited until the last minute to accept the match he would have been given a longer match. This absolutely sucked but at least in a hilarious way. 

Peak of the show was Bryan Danielson getting the big gimmicked entrance at WrestleMania. That shit made me tear up. Match wasn't good though. Sneak attack to start off was good but then they took Bryan out of the match and everyone went from being super hot to not caring one bit. It didn't hit me until watching it but it's super cool that Sami Zayn ended up in a match as big as this on WrestleMania. Dude is spectacular as a heel too. Owens just shouts a lot and really does suck. Shane tried and he sold but everyone came to see Bryan and they kinda didn't get that. I really don't need Bryan's fake out sell after the top rope dropkick every again. Owens and Zayn remain fired and I don't think one person expects them not to be back on TV by May. Bryan Danielson getting that entrance video at WrestleMania though my word.

Nia/Alexa suffered from WWE having a set structure and not letting anyone look too dominant. Actually Cena/Taker is exactly what this should have been. This might be the first time I've ever looked at a match up and completely not brought one wrestler working on top of another. The eye gauging worked but even trying to have Alexa take Nia's legs out just wasn't working. This should have been a 2-3 minute total squash but they tried to have an actual match and it kinda sucked.

The show had gone way too long and not been good for too long by the point of AJ/Nakamura that I wasn't ready for a traditionally worked match like that. That said nothing even seemed all that good or exciting. Finish along with Asuka/Charlotte feels like Vince took the day of the Rumble off and then came back into work the next day wondering what the fuck the monkey's decided to do. I pretty much saw the turn coming right before it happened which is good but nobody wants to boo Nakamura so maybe turn one of the many babyfaces people do want to boo. 

If it wasn't for that Danielson entrance this would have been the peak of the show. Even in my wildest "imagine if they did this" tongue in cheek posts I could never come up with anything at the height of fuckery that this was at. First of the prelude to The Bar's entrance was outstanding, only made better by the fact that they just went straight into their normal serious entrance afterwards. Big heads screaming running away from Braun was fantastic. This isn't what Bruan should be doing at Mania but he was super awesome in the role. Remember when him and Reigns were trying to murder each other and how a month ago Braun pinned like 6 dudes at Elimination Chamber and took Reigns out afterwards. And now a month later he's running off Mardi Gras characters and winning the tag belts with little kids. There's a picture of Minoru Suzuki in the crowd and just imagine if Braun teased choosing him. I laughed my ass off when Braun was cosplaying Saturday Night Takeaway in the ring and went all in when he started walking some little kid to the ring. Nicholas didn't run in to make the save when Bruan was pinned which broke my heart. This is something you do on a house show and it's the greatest thing ever but doing it in hour seven of WrestleMania probably wasn't the smartest move. That said it woke me back up after AJ/Nakamura. After the match Michael Cole said "is this the most unlikely duo in WWE history?" and called it totally straight and now I can never say a bad word about Michael Cole ever again. This was horrible but if anyone expected me to not love this then you don't know me at all.

Main event died a very painful death. I thought the crowd were kinda into it at the start, or at least for the entrances but around the time Lesnar started suplexing Reigns literally the entire place checked out all at once and this became very depressing to watch. In a way the fact that they laid out such a shocking match made me feel better about it because the crowd didn't then kill a potentially great match. They had the template from 4 years ago and they couldn't just do the same match that got Reigns over before the finish. Suplex, F5, Superman Punch, Spear. Did I miss anything? The F5 spamming was frankly insulting and if they thought that would get Reigns over then I'm lost for words. The blood made for a cool visual and in an alternate reality would be the defining moment in Roman Reigns Babyface Star but really at that point Lesnar should have abandoned that spot because he just fucked Reigns up real bad for literally nobody's enjoyment. Finish was hilarious. The last 3 years for that. I didn't expect this to kill any chance Reigns had as a babyface but this killed it as dead as dead can be. Don't see how even the fans he had can still get behind a title chase after this. He's not just someone nobody wants to see succeed but he's a loser who nobody wants to see succeed. Just get back to Braun being the badass babyface and put him over Lesnar like they should have done last summer if they weren't going with Reigns in the end. 

Has there ever been a worse booked major WWE show than this one? Like I said, I didn't hate the show but I'm not going to act like it was anything above awful even despite the first 90 minutes being a pretty good show. *


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I would say Mania 32 was worse with all the 'fuck you finishes', but at least that was the start of Charlotte being cemented as a star. Like him or not, Reigns actually won the bloody strap that night and recieved a half decent pop for it too. Mania 34 just felt like they wasted an entire year's worth of air time, although really you could stretch it to years with some of the matches in regards to past scenarios they've wasted for absolutely no pay off.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Andre said:


> I would say Mania 32 was worse with all the 'fuck you finishes', but at least that was the start of Charlotte being cemented as a star. Like him or not, Reigns actually won the bloody strap that night and recieved a half decent pop for it too. Mania 34 just felt like they wasted an entire year's worth of air time, although really you could stretch it to years with some of the matches in regards to past scenarios they've wasted for absolutely no pay off.


Did Reigns get a pop? All I remember was "Nakamura" chants and boos at the end. And Charlotte winning was a smaller kind of "fuck you finish" too, since Sasha was leaps and bounds ready to take over champion duties at that point and the crowd was into her all the freakin' way. It felt like a missed opportunity to strike when the iron was hot (but then again, of course the WWE would do that).

WM 34 was poorly booked, but 32 felt like Vince was deliberately insulting the smarks for some reason, and he basically choose every outcome in hopes that everyone would be baffled and pissed.


----------



## Andy362 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Miz/Rollins/Balor:* Exactly what it needed to be. A fun fast paced opener and a title change to start the show. ***1/2
*Charlotte/Asuka:* A very good match between the two and history made despite the finish admittedly being very sudden. ***3/4
*Orton/Mahal/Rusev/Roode:* Just a short match to cool off the crowd. Didn't like Jinder winning but it was all fine. **
*Angle & Ronda/Trips & Steph*: Extremely fun match, exceed all expectations and made Rousey look brilliant. ****
*Usos/New Day/Bludgeon:* We all wanted more than a glorified squash but it was a long show and the right guys won. **
*Cena/Taker:* Really cool moment seeing these two finally interact, the squash was weird but made sense storyline wise. **
*Bryan & Shane/Owens & Zayn:* Was fantastic to see Bryan back and the match was fine for that reason alone. **3/4
*Alexa/Nia:* A lot of people thought this was going to be a squash but it was solid for what it was and told a decent story. **1/2
*Styles/Nakamura:* Disappointing considering the hype. Slow pace just sapped the crowd even more and it never got going. ***
*Bar/Strowman/Nicholas:* Thought this whole thing was daft and completely pointless in hindsight. Just a way to use Braun. *
*Lesnar/Reigns:* Just didn't work as a main event in any way. People are sick of both, they spammed finishers as the crowd shit all over it and then top things off the wrong guy won. Soured a decent show quite a bit. *1/2

In hindsight, it wasn't bad and the main event skewed the feeling towards the show because it was so shit. A 6 or 7/10 Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arn Anderson vs Big Josh is now on the Network so what why isn't this thread talking about that instead?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Andre the Giant documentary in full on YouTube.

:banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:done Man, Benoit/Finlay from the 05/05/2006 Smackdown is tremendous. It's a KOTR qualifier and it's as physical as you'd come to expect from these two. Highly recommended.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plus Finlay wins. :cozy

Perfect set-up for the eventual Judgment Day match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did this for the hell of it if anyone was curious of the way things played out after the draft this year:

RAW:



Spoiler: roster



1) John Cena ("Free Agent")
2) Brock Lesnar
3) Roman Reigns
4) Seth Rollins
5) Dean Ambrose
6) Braun Strowman
7) Kevin Owens
8) Sami Zayn
9) Matt Hardy
10) Bray Wyatt
11) Finn Balor
12) Bobby Lashley
13) Bobby Roode
14) Jinder Mahal
15) Baron Corbin
16) Big Show
17) Kane
18) Chad Gable
19) Jason Jordan
20) Dolph Ziggler
21) Drew McIntyre
22) Scott Dawson
23) Dash Wilder
24) Akam
25) Rezar
26) No Way Jose
27) Heath Slater
28) Rhyno
29) Goldust
30) Titus O'Neil
31) Apollo Crews
32) Elias
33) Curtis Axel
34) Bo Dallas
35) Mojo Rawley
36) Zack Ryder
37) Mike Kanellis
38) Tyler Breeze
39) Fandango
40) Konnor
41) Viktor
42) Curt Hawkins
43) Samir Singh
44) Sunil Singh

1) Ronda Rousey
2) Sasha Banks
3) Bayley
4) Alexa Bliss
5) Nia Jax
6) Natalya
7) Mickie James
8) Ember Moon
9) Ruby Riott
10) Sarah Logan
11) Liv Morgan
12) Dana Brooke
13) Alicia Fox
14) Maria Kanellis




Smackdown:



Spoiler: roster



1) John Cena ("Free Agent")
2) AJ Styles
3) Daniel Bryan
4) Shinsuke Nakamura
5) Samoa Joe
6) Jeff Hardy
7) The Miz
8) Randy Orton
9) Rusev
10) Sheamus
11) Cesaro
12) Chris Jericho
13) Luke Harper
14) Erick Rowan
15) Kofi Kingston
16) Big E
17) Xavier Woods
18) Jimmy Uso
19) Jey Uso
20) Big Cass
21) Shelton Benjamin
22) Karl Anderson
23) Luke Gallows
24) Andrade Almas
25) Eric Young
26) Alexander Wolfe
27) Killian Dain
28) Aiden English
29) Tye Dillinger
30) R-Truth
31) Sin Cara
32) Primo Colon
33) Epico Colon

1) Charlotte Flair
2) Asuka
3) Becky Lynch
4) Naomi
5) Carmella
6) Sonya Deville
7) Mandy Rose
8) Billie Kay
9) Peyton Royce
10) Lana
11) Zelina Vega
12) Maryse
13) Tamina
14) Nikki Bella (she's still listed on WWE.com, so idk)




205 Live:



Spoiler: roster



1) Cedric Alexander
2) TJP
3) Drew Gulak
4) The Brian Kendrick
5) Mustafa Ali
6) Buddy Murphy
7) Kalisto
8) Gran Metalik
9) Lince Dorado
10) Tony Nese
11) Akira Tozawa
12) Hideo Itami
13) Jack Gallagher
14) Noam Dar
15) Ariya Daivari
16) Mark Andrews


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown roster has me drooling. Damn it so much variety and fresh matchups!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Despite not wanting to expect anything from WWE at a general risk of disappointment; Nakamura vs Jeff Hardy is what I'm looking at there. Doubt they pull a Danielson vs Jeff Hardy match, but that too as the back up long-shot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wwe-greatest-royal-rumble-2018/ :Cal


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

:zandigjeeezus this thread is dead!

Hopefully this will reignite it. Bryan's the best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets blame Cal. 

Dark match Danielson vs Nakamura? I got time for this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, all my fault. Sorry guys.

Huh, a Nakamura match I actually WANT TO WATCH? What kind of magic is this?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part was seeing Greg the ring announcer & a random crew member mock Chioda's ref mannerisms.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't have much in the way of new wrestling to watch, so I figured I'd use the WWE Network collections to fill in some gaps of my wrestling knowledge and history. I decided to juggle the Daniel Bryan, Macho Man and Sammartino collections.

First up, I watched Sammartino take on Killer Kowalski. For a match from 1974, it is remarkably well restored for the Network, there is stuff from twenty or thirty years after this that looks way shittier, although this match does appear to have around the whole first half of it lost to time. What we get to see of it, well the match itself is... eh. The business has changed a lot in the last near fifty years, I am sure in its day this was a great match (I feel like I KNOW this is the case given how red hot the crowd is), but watched with modern eyes the match feels very slow and basic and Kowalski spends far too much of the match seemingly trying to rip Sammartino's trunks off. 

Jumping ahead about forty years into the future next I watched a Money in the Bank Ladder match from 2011. I get why this is included in the Daniel Bryan collection as he wins the match, but Bryan does remarkably little here. He gets a few moments to fight from under, usually while being buried on commentary by Cole, before he is taken out of the equation altogether for whole chunks of the match. He is probably the worst showcased person in this entire match, save for Sin Cara who is taken out of the match altogether, but what a memorable exit that was. On an aside, crazily, four people in this match aren't even with the company anymore, and two guys are wrestling with almost entirely different gimmicks. Watching WWE in real time can make it feel like nothing ever happens, but the landscape of this match shows how much has changed in the last six and a bit years.

Then we jump around thirty years backwards again to watch rising star Randy Savage take on Tito Santana for the Intercontinental Title. This is the only match of these three that I have actually seen before. I wouldn't say it is a great match or anything, it has a lot of unconvincing strikes and kicks, but when looking around at his peers, the way Savage flings himself around like a cruiserweight is so unique and so fun. Any idea what Savage takes out of his trunks and what does he do, poke it into Santana's eye?


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So onto my next trio of matches. 

I started with a Daniel Bryan match from 2011 where Bryan takes on Regal, considering I don't think they even got ten minutes of actual on-camera in-ring time and it is taking places on Superstars of all things, this was surprisingly great. Regal and Bryan manage to get a lot into the limited time they have here, I don't know how accurate it is about Regal's role in Bryan's training, but the two of them have undeniable chemistry, with both guys working real snug and taking some really nasty looking bumps. Regal takes a brutal looking kick to the head, before immediately submitting to Bryan MMA style for an impressive finish.

Next, we flashback to around twenty-five years earlier as we see Macho Man I guess defend the IC Title he stole from Santana (?) against another childhood favourite of mine in Jake the Snake. I say I guess because this match is taking place nine months after the Santana one and there is nothing in the collection bridging the gap between these matches. The best part of the match is the insane bumps the ref takes.

Then finally we jump back eleven years for a... Greek Death Match? What the fuck is that??? Vince sorta explains it on commentary and from the sound of things it is just a regular no DQ match but without pinfalls. I guess they called it a Greek Death Match to a) give it more pizazz but also because b) it features Spiros Arion who I had honestly never heard of but is apparently greek. Despite all that noise, the match is again mostly dull, 90% kicks and punches which both guys sell despite neither of them coming anywhere near one another. 

You know the old school guys who complain about the nature of the business today I never really understood their complaints until I started watching these Savage and Sammartino matches. In their day kayfabe was still very real, yet it doesn't even feel like they are even trying to make what they are doing look genuine. Yet today in a business which is wholly exposed everyone today wrestles like it is a shoot taking all manners of risks. Just seems like we've got it all backwards.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I normally post in last wrestling match watched/MOTYC thread but I'll carry WWE stuff over in here. Watched some of Backlash:


Seth Rollins v. The Miz
I muted this because the commentary was annoying me but turned the volume back on because the crowd seemed really into everything. It was worth it. I think this could have ended at 8 minutes and still been a damn good tv match. They already in that time built a nice match of opening sequence > Miz's boot and control bit > Rollins fighting getting his groove back. Little did I know all of that was pretty much the lesser part of the match. I don't love a lot of back-and-forth but I think doing it in this way of trading big moves that aren't *too* big, with time in between, is a way to make me care. Like, the frog splash felt pretty big and also looked really impactful (but man did the slow-motion during the replays kind of ruin it for me). The knee stuff started very well. Miz's embarrassed-bully-in-a-teen-movie face is pretty great as a reverse figure four sell. I like how long it actually took for Miz to get the true jump on the knee because of Rollins playing it smart and mostly not letting him go near it. Leads to the first skull-crushing finale in a really cool reverse sequence where Rollins lands on his feet, grabs the knee for a single second and Miz going for gold. The superplex part sucked. I think I would have been more or less ok...ish with it if it was the finish, because I can much more buy a guy fighting through pain if he's sure he's going to head back to the locker room to rest. Miz did absolutely sell it by holding his back after it but it still leaves a sour taste to me. Not to mention Rollins kicking out of two SCFs in like three minutes really wasn't necessary. Pretty sure I would have added this to my MOTY list if it ended earlier but even with the shit I didn't like, it was really good.

AJ Styles v. Shinsuke Nakamura
Kinda hilarious that these two have two 20 minute PPV matches to refer to and the only thing they can build on is a strike to the testes. I honestly wish they'd just built most of this match around Nakamura trying to get dick blows and Styles trying to avoid it and capitalising on his desperation. I thought I was being nitpicky when I thought in my head that Styles was going too slow, but then fuckin Corey Graves pointed it out and I felt verified. Felt like Styles was pacing himself and we are well beyond the point where he should be keeping his emotions in check. At least as far as I'm concerned; there's probably a good argument against that. I mean I just think they've at least a DECENT job of showing these two actually dislike each other so I think a 13 minute burst of fire with focus on balls could have been really great. The actual 'work' was good and shit. Styles throws a guy very roughly into barricades, s'nice. Nakamura's heel work over was fine but uninteresting. Graves keeps going on about Nakamura being king of strong style and as much as that Inokism means nothing to me, I don't think anyone considers lightly stomping on a guy and putting on a headlock as "strong style." This was many minutes of solid execution and selling backed by almost nothing driving it forward despite it being a no DQ match in what's now a hate feud. The matches between these two feel so emotionless, I'm done saying "ok, the next one could be really good" to my friend. I might watch the WK match later. Never seen it and I need to see what is I ASSUME an actually very good match between the two.

And oh my good sweet hilarity, the finish.

Roman Reigns v. Samoa Joe
After Lesnar/Reigns at Mania I thought it'd be a while before we'd have a match in WWE any near that dire, and here we are not a month later. The fact this non-title match with two people who have only sporadically interacted over the past year was the main event is weird enough, but I mean all of their matches so far have been at least pretty good. The rest holds...why? No matter what angle you look at this from, I don't think it works. I think the only possible explanation you could give is that Joe is used to Reigns and doesn't want him to get his groove going, but for me to believe that you'll have to convince me that Joe actually fears Reigns' offense, which, is, I mean, hell no. He went mano-a-mano in a chop battle with fuckin Kobashi in his mid-20s. He was really the first one to get the proper jump on Lesnar last year. He took on NINJA KIDNAPPERS and destroyed them so badly that TNA never had to explain anything. The man doesn't fear shit. Sad part is the start was phenomenal. Joe gets the jump, Reigns tries to fight back, Joe goddamn DRILLS him through the announce table, all before the bell. We could have had a Cavernario/Soberano (using a modern example) style slaughtering. Instead we got.....why--wh---why--what are you DOING? What is this? Are they trying to get sympathy on Reigns via a rest hold? Are they trying to make it so Joe makes the match boring and so Reigns fighting upward gets the crowd excited? Are they trying to tell you Reigns can even come back from THIS - so look! If any of the above was the plan, it didn't work, to the surprising gasp of the planet. Reigns hitting the saddest and most silent Superman punch we will hopefully ever see is likely proof. Once the bell starts there's almost nothing you could say about this that doesn't make it out to be a monumental failure. Unless the "beat the traffic" chant becomes a mainstay. An unbelievably depressing match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't know what WWE formula I hate more, what Rollins vs Miz was or Joe vs Reigns. 

They both happen so damn much, I actually can sit here and try to figure this out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't imagine how horrible a mood I'd be in all the time if I watched wrestling the way most do. I have like 45 matches to go across the world before I'm considered "caught up." That's not even some full tournaments to people who watch entire shows.

I did like Miz/Rollins though. :cozy

Still haven't watched Sabre in NJPW yet. :cal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's p. soul crushing. Although I actually stopped watching WWE weekly now b/c of this. 

You liking that match hurts our long-standing synergy. :monkey

Not watching the ZSJ stuff yet. WHO ARE YOU?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this for someone elsewhere, so thought i'd post it in here too as i didn't see it already online.

*Terry Funk vs. Dustin Rhodes (PWF 03.11.1989)*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_O9xaOSX2c


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy shit at Funk murdering that guy w/the picket sign. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I ignored WWE network's "hidden gems" thing because in the past when they've called shit unearthed it meant that it already had been available elsewhere for years (ffs they just put up that AJ Styles/Hurricane match I watched a couple months back), but these two are actually new and I couldn't wait a single day to check them out after hearing about them on Segunda Caida (and to boot, a new Santo mask match from 1988 showed up on youtube a few days ago).

Roddy Piper v. Greg Valentine 7/9/83
Fantastic. The result of two wrestlers who are good at everything they do, having a hate brawl. It doesn't have the speed or fire of some hate brawls, but it definitely has the hate. Valentine spends a lot of the early-goings terrified, putting his hands up and down to hopefully block what's coming, and pacing on the outside while a fat elderly woman yell at him like he deserves it. Piper's got the most amazing face of looking forward to getting his hands on someone, and every single time he throws a blow the crowd pops. Piper with another great reaction when he does a "bring it", and Valentine does one also and Piper's looking at him like bitch you've been running away and blocking the entire match. Valentine stops acting overly cautious eventually and decides he needs to go on the offensive, and there aren't many better showings of loathing in a wrestling match I can remember. There's one bit where they're just grabbing at each other's ears. Valentine rolls out of the ring after they tussle on the ground, and Piper, while still laying on the mat, reaches over and pulls at Valentine's hair to not let him escape. Piper uses that rope thingy that's outside the ring at old shows, and not only brings in the ring to choke Valentine, but rubs it across his neck like he's starting a fire. This whole match was just a tremendous display of hatred. I don't even want to say the finish/aftermath but I'll mention that it's noteworthy. If you told me these two started another fight in the locker room after the show was over and cameras were off, I might believe it. I need to keep my eye on the hidden gems thing if more like this going to show up. I still don't understand how the guy from Smashing Pumpkins was able to become the holder of NWA footage before WWE did.

Big Van Vader v. Ron Simmons 12/30/92
This was never going to match Piper/Valentine but I'm a big fan of the match where Simmons wins the title so this had some expectations to live to, and it indeed wound up being really good. Vader gets slammed on the outside concrete and has to deal with a bum back, and in a stretch hold thing he goes back and forth between screaming "NO PAIN!" and screaming "AHHH!" Race is on the mic for some of the match saying "NO PAIN!" which bloody rules. They call back to the other match by Vader kicking out of the powerslam reversal from the top rope. Awesome transition where Vader merely butt-splashes then drops an elbow, and Tony Schiavone is like "and just like that the tides have turned" because Vader is so powerful and Vader's butt is so large. Simmons is on the floor shaking after it which rocked. Weird finish. It was just a shoulder breaker. Vader won the title back with a shoulder breaker, just after he'd taken a near-fall himself. Ok then. Match was still very worth it and really fun. If we get more 1992 WCW I will go fucking berserk. It's been 8 years since I really dug into it, and it still I think remains my favourite year for any promotion in the ring. Imagine after all that time, new Dangerous Alliance tags pop up to add to it. Just the idea has me on edge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm actually glad you posted this b/c or else I never would have looked to find these. Just like when Cal told me that the Sunday Night Heat shows got added. You can tell I explore the Network thoroughly. (sort of an exaggeration to stretch this, but yeah, all this has been right over my head)

Anything to beef up the HATE for Piper vs Valentine Dog Collar culmination :mark:


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Watched WWE Royal Rumble 2000. Good show :cozy


Tazz vs Kurt Angle: **
This was a short match with some nice suplexes. Put over Tazz (and his moves) huge in front of the MSG crowd was was already cheering for him. Angle’s promo before had was okay and very basic.

The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley) vs. The Hardy Boyz (Jeff & Matt Hardy: ***¼ 
As you would expect with these two teams, lot’s of carnage. Chair shots to the head, table spots. Awesome moments. Obviously a spot fest but a fun and memorable one. That Hardy swanton bomb on D-Von spot was insane

Chris Jericho vs. Chyna vs. Hardcore Holly: *** 
Typical triple threat match with them throwing each other out of the ring, trying to get the wi. I thought the match stip helped the quality of the match as well. 

The New Age Outlaws (Billy Gunn & The Road Dogg) vs. The Acolytes (Bradshaw & Faarooq): *
This is bollocks. 

Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. Cactus Jack: ****½ 
Real awesome match. The match started of relatively slow but picked up fairly quick and introduced the weapons into the match. When they did, I thought everything was used well. Perhaps they used the barbed wire 2x4 too early but oh well, it did lead to HHH bleeding which was a great visual. Thought them starting off with Cactus Jack trying to psych out HHH was a great tough to add the the fear factor HHH had going in. Loved the call back to the year previous with the arms handcuffed spot. HHH’s selling of the damage done was good all match, stumbling around etc. I thought the Rock interference was a bit unnecessary and they could’ve gotten Cactus Jack’s arms free another way imo. Nevertheless, the match was a great brawl and the crowd well nuts for it. 

Royal Rumble: **½ 
This was fine. Aside from the Too Cool dance and the Kaientai segment, this isn’t very memorable. 

Overall:
This was a good show overall. Great WWF title match, decet undercard with some nutty moments like the Jeff Swanton bomb spot. 7/10


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That IC champion "match" is truly one of the worst things ever.

And I'm on the go-home Smackdown before this PPV, atm. I would be wise to skip it. At least I got the tables match, TAZZ, Foley/Trips, & Pete Gas running into the bottom rope to look forward, too. (This is so good, it even overshadows the Taka moment now.) I feel like I'm watching this PPV all the time; talk about deja vu.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might have seen that entire show multiple full times and remember nothing about the IC 3-way. I should watch the tables match again, I might like it more now compared to years back when the very mention of a spotfest make me break out in hives. On that note (and WWF 2000 note), I wonder what I'd think of the Armageddon Hell in a Cell today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Other than wondering how a match could be so messed up, there isn't much to remember. If there was a triple threat match from 2000 that could be worse, it would be Eddie vs Malenko vs Saturn from Judgment Day. I'm almost not sure which wins.

I don't like that term used for Hardys vs Dudleys. But this isn't a usage I care to use often. I always see it as basically a well constructed brawl with the endgame gimmick that fans wanted to see. (remember when going through a table was REALLY cool?)

Watched the six man Hell in a Cell a week or so ago. Absolutely brilliant. Even all the shenanigans when Vince comes out and Foley starts to beat up the Stooges & arrests Vince. It's literally focused on them for a few moments and doesn't hurt a thing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Watched the six man Hell in a Cell a week or so ago. Absolutely brilliant. *Even all the shenanigans when Vince comes out and Foley starts to beat up the Stooges & arrests Vince.* It's literally focused on them for a few moments and doesn't hurt a thing.


I've seen that match at least 3 times and I have no idea how I don't remember that segment at all. :lol Guess it shows you that it never overshadowed the action because I have no recollection of it in the slightest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's how the truck gets out there for the Taker/Rikishi chokeslam off the cell. Vince is trying to take it down to stop the match one final time. It's awesome.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Hell of a show. Opener kinda sucked up until Oney got the hot tag. Crowd wouldn't get behind Oney and Burch and Strong and O'Reilly are dull when it comes to working a control segment. Then Oney got in and they had a long finishing stretch and I almost reluctantly got super into it by the end. Burch is a guy that I watched a lot when I was everything Indy going and he's good but unspectacular and those guys aren't made for WWE but it was cool that he got to have a big match on a big WWE show in a match that delivered. He'd be good being what Dillinger should have been in NXT serving as a measuring stick for new guys and an on roster coach ala Ohno. Oney off the hot tag was super awesome and if he gets a partner who can be a bigger star he could be half of a great team. O'Reilly sucks but to give him credit where it's deserved his wobbly leg sell of one of the strikes was awesome. Went in giving Oney and Burch absolutely had no chance but they had a couple of near falls that had me doubting it for a second. Great match by the end and the best thing any of the Undisputed guys have been involved in so far bar the Ladder Match. 

Ricochet/Dream was honest to god one of my favourtie matches ever and a total blowaway spectacle. Dream's entrance made no sense and 99 times out of 100 would be so cringey but Dream makes things like that work so well. Ricochet's entrance is spectacular too and presents him as a superstar straight away. Build to this was that a story of showmanship and Dream wanting to outperform the ultimate showman and this was a case of the match being the perfect conclusion to the story told in the build and that's a lost art in modern wrestling but something Dream is excelling at. The spots were incredible and the near falls ruled but what made this a perfect match was the character work and the storytelling which made every single spot meaningful and not just the highspots. There was never a spot for the sake of a spot or the early stages being something wrestlers have to get through before they can pick up the pace like the opener absolutely was. Just a spot like Ricochet seeing Dream get up early and jump from the top rope to the apron to avoid him after being caught with the same spot earlier and then Dream being obsessed with not just beating Ricochet but outperforming him copying the spot later is something so simple that you get so much equity out of. And the highspots absolutely ruled. The superplex to the floor, Ricochet doing the Death Valley Bomb, Dream's dive to the outside. Ricochet's SSP was just an incredible sequence with Dream seeming to roll out of danger of any mere mortal and then Ricochet remembering he's an alien and continue to leave me in awe of what he can do and Dream getting then still getting the knees up. And of course the story had the fitting conclusion with Dream being obsessed with outperforming Ricochet being the ultimate downfall of him before Ricochet again proved why he's the ultimate showman finishing the match with the 630. I think the fact that I've watched him do that spot for years now makes it easy to forget that to most WWE fans at least it's something I don't think anyone else has ever done before there. Also Dream fucking flew for that elbow. When you watch an 80s classic you sometimes think wow imagine if this had the athleticism of today. And when you watch a modern day classic you think wow imagine if this had the character work and all round storytelling of yesteryear. This had the awe inspiring modern day athleticism with the old school style of everything mattering. Five star match guys.

Shayna/Nikki were kinda doomed following that but they had a character driven match that was a nice easy watch and was perfect for this spot on the card. Shayna intimidating her way through the roster and then coming up against someone who's too much of a loon to be scared of her was awesome progression. Nikki's really delivered whenever she gets the big match opportunity. Her offence needs to look a bit edgier but she works the crazy gimmick into her matches really well without it Dean Ambrose garbage which it inevitably will on the main roster. There's a lot of good with Shayna but still a lot of bad that will hopefully become more polished as she gets more experienced because if it does she can be a great foil for the more popular stars.

Vic Joseph was really good btw. Not sure if I've mentioned him when I bring 205 Live up but he's very good in a simple way that doesn't distract you from the performers like Mauro does. 

Black/Lars was good and really nicely worked as a big guy little guy match. Lars is really good for a guy that size with the experience he has. Botched Black Mass was a shame but in a way worked out for the best if Lars was going to kick out of it. Plus they still got to put Lars over using it by having them fight his way back up after the second one hit. It feels like forever since the NXT title program has been the hottest program going into a TakeOver. Maybe Gargano/Almas but that's the exception not the rule over the last few years. It doesn't really matter because there's always been something super hot but it is weird. 

Main event was brilliant. Didn't think it was as good as New Orleans but still hit all the spots you wanted it to hit. KICK. HIS. ASS. Neck work after Ciampa's latest attack and Gargano's sell of every shot was great. Last time I thought they got everything out of everything and didn't have to do a million things. That wasn't the case here but the pacing was still great and the seething hatred was ever present. Storytelling was absolutely on point. I love how in both matches Gargano has shown remorse for the depths he's sunk to and then Ciampa does something to push him back over the edge. Last time he had try gave Ciampa a chance for redemption with the crutch spot and this time the inner battle of what he'd done after the table spot before realising what Ciampa sunk to with the wedding ring spot which was so incredible and that triggering Gargano to sink back into Ciampa's hell. Totally fine with the finish because it means another match between these two and I'm completely in favour of that. I kinda hope they hold it off though and have Ciampa refuse to give Gargano a rematch because it's over now he's won and go and win the title and set up the third match later in the year for the belt where Gargano not just overcomes Ciampa but finally gets the belt. Crowd were kinda obnoxious at certain points too with some of their chants but it felt like small portions than the whole. Like this isn't the match to be doing your woop woop shtick. 

Opener - ****
Ricochet/Dream - *****
Shayna/Nikki - **3/4
Black/Sullivan - ***1/4
Ciampa/Gargano - ****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Respect your opinion, mate, but I totally disagree when it comes to Ricochet/Dream  Don't get me wrong, I thought it was good, but I also think they tried WAY too hard. The middle portion of the match honestly felt like spots for the sake of spots to me. Everything right before the Death Valley Bomb off the top rope (which was the 1st spot that gave me "oh, they're going for an 'epic'" vibes) was perfect, with Dream being a cocky ass motherfucker trying to out-Ricochet Ricochet himself. The ending stretch, starting from Ricochet doing the Death Valley Bomb himself (which I think should've been the move right before the ending, but that's just me; the way they did it was still good), all the way to them consistently outdoing the previous crazy top rope stunt was a very clever idea. And everything in-between.... I wasn't really feeling it a whole lot, because at no point did I think that they earned a high spots epic (this match should've been way more down-to-Earth than that), nor did I think that some of them served the story any purpose (the concrete Superplex was, from a conception perspective, a literal and needless repetition of the Super DVB spot... just going about it by another way superficially), nor did I like that, at some points, the two sold as if they were 100% equally exhausted and broken and would even get up at the same time even though Ricochet had just taken the vast brunt of a couple of brutal bumps, and they ended up playing as if they were on level ground (sure, Dream took some damage as well, but nothing compared to what Ricochet took). Didn't love the match, all in all.

On the other hand, I word for word agree entirely with your assessment on the Tag match (except the O'Reilly sucks part, I don't mind him).


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Spent most of the show doing other stuff while it was on. It was weird that they had Harper and Rowan run through The Usos without giving them anything and then they work a 50-50 match with geeks like Anderson and Gallows. Bryan/Cass last time was a Cass match and this time was a Daniel Bryan match so it was good. Cass sucked but they at least gave the match a chance to succeed this time. At least they didn't trade wins. Lashley/Zayn was when I went to my phone expecting a longer match and then I looked up and it was over. Rollins/Elias I barely paid attention to. It's so stupid that Elias isn't doing his shtick as a babyface right now. Both MITB matches were dull and lacking good highspots. I'm for safer Ladder Matches but they do nothing creative at all in them anymore. Owens bump aside which was nuts. Mens should have been Braun finding creative ways to murder 7 guys before strolling up the Ladder uncontested. He's the most over guy in the match so him winning is fine. Michael Cole ended this match shouting MONSTER IN THE BANK. Witty. Womens sucked again this year because they're a) not allowed to take really big bumps and b) not good enough to pull them off anyway. Loads of awkward spots. Naomi was about to grab the briefcase and Becky decided now was the time to hit her move on Lana before chasing Naomi. Karma had a great showing when Alexa was late and made her wait like a goon at the top. Falling off a Ladder onto the ropes means nothing now and neither does taking a back bump onto the Ladder. Thought Ember Moon looked like a star in this. Reigns/Jinder was a waste of time but I caught Jinder's lackey stealing the Milo Beasley gimmick from FIP and that made me happy. Michael Cole ended this shouting THE BIG DOG GONE HUNTING. Carmella/Asuka was garbage and HA at anyone who thought Asuka could be a star on the main roster. Gormless moron mesmerised because an unknown entity was dressed as her. Ellsworth is change the channel for me. If you were conned into believing that WWE were actually serious about womens wrestling outside of pushing the Stephanie agenda outside the company then look at who the champions are and wonder why you're being such a mark. Didn't pay enough attention to AJ/Shinsuke to properly judge it but that tells you a lot. 

Rousey/Nia was very good until the ending. We saw this with Brock when he first came back, any crossover interest you get from MMA fans disappears the moment you start doing pro wrestling angles with them. Kinda rolling my eyes at Alexa being back on top. Not because of pushes or nonsense that marks still think matters but because the only womens matches given time to be good are the title matches and Alexa just can't reach that level with anyone. Great character but she can't carry a singles match and her vs Rousey is gonna be painful because her offence can not and will not be even slightly believable for Ronda to sell and she'll have to because WWE style. When she was swinging that briefcase it legit looked too heavy for her to swing with any force. Michael Cole ended this shouting FIVE TIME CHAMPION ALEXA BLISS. Match up to then was good though. It should be Ronda just running through people at this stage but whatever. She sold better than almost every women on the main roster including a lot of the supposed polished ones. Nia looked good. The match was working. It's amusing how Ronda has suddenly forgot how she good she was at applying armbars since joining WWE but ok. The sequence from Ronda going for the armbar to Alexa running it was fantastic. Then they started making their own narrative up pretending that Nia's arm was injured when the armbar was never locked in. Coach is insufferable btw. Nia should flatten him for killing her bearhug. He's every bit as bad as Matt Striker in the sense that he talks like the smartest guy in the room constantly imposing his sage pearls of wisdom upon us which rarely actually transition from something an analyst on ESPN would say that actually means nothing to something that applies to pro wrestling.
*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Unreleased HBK set is looking quite good so far:



> The Rockers vs. The Orient Express
> London, ON, Canada • April 29, 1990
> 
> Piper’s Pit with Shawn Michaels
> ...


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ECW November to Remember 1999 

*Simon Diamond w/Dick Hertz vs. Spike Dudley *

I liked it a lot.Diamond is heeling it up with the crowd before things start and Spike comes out and just attacks. He hits Dick in the dick and follows up with a Dudley Dog and that’s the last we see of him. He proceeds to beat the ever living shit out of Diamond and wins like 3 minutes later. Spike seemed like a crazy person and sometimes it’s just fun to watch the heel get beat up. But man, the gay innuedo stuff Diamond was doing has NOT aged well. 
**¾* 


*Little Guido w/Big Sal vs. Nova *

Little Guido jumped Spike and Nova comes in for the save and the match starts. Starting that way made it so thing started fast, stayed fast, and ended fast. Nova does a lot of cool stuff. He looks like a generic indy guy but I got the impression that he sort of defined the look and not copying it. The run in train continues after this. Someone saves Nova after the match and then someone saves Guido from the guy that saved Nova. I don’t remember the names but found the chain of run ins funny. 
**½ *


*Tajiri w/Steve Corino and Jack Victory vs. Jerry Lynn vs. Super Crazy *

This was fantastic. And it makes watching a WWE triple threat match depressing. They start wild and I just love the way that they sell. You see someone go down, they’re hurt, and watch them try to struggle to their feet to get back in the match. They never spent 5 minutes unconscious on the floor. They had this really fun brawl into the crowd where Lynn and Tajiri, who had some heat with each other coming into the match, forgot about Super Crazy and let him sneak upstairs and moonsault down on to them. You had a good 8-10 minutes of craziness before Super Crazy is eliminated. From there the match changes pace and really finishes off a good story. Lynn has his ribs taped and Tajiri goes after them. There’s good selling until Tajiri starts throwing some stiff kicks. Lynn looks at him, tells him to fuck off (or something similar to that) and hits his cradle piledriver for the win. It was a cos out of control. ol moment and the crowd loved it. 

I loved the structure here. Tajiri and Lynn wanted to fight and the third man made things out of control. That was a blast and then things slowed down, got serious, and delivered a very satisfying ending. 
****¾ *


*Da Baldies vs. Axl Rotten, Balls Mahoney, and New Jack *

I’m not sure what to make of this. I want to hate but when you have three crazy looking guys beating up 4 bald guys in sweatpants it’s a lot of fun. New Jack doesn’t start in the match but makes his surprise comeback about 2 minutes in. His music plays for the entirety off the match. Rotten and New Jack take two the bald guys into the crowd where New Jack jumps off the top of a basketball backboard. Balls was meanwhile left alone in the ring with the other two guys. They beat him up the whole time. Eventually makes their way back into the ring, they hit each other with a lot of weapons, and somehow the Baldies win after hitting New Jack with a guitar. Kind of a garbage match with one crazy spot but it’s hard to say that it wasn’t fun. 
****


*Chris Candido w/Tammy Lynn Sytch vs. Sabu w/Bill Afonso*

A weird performance from Candido. At first it looked like he was going to try to keep things on the mat while Sabu wanted to turn it into a wild fight. It was working for Candido and I liked the flow of the match with him trying to contain Sabu. But soon after he’s trying to out Sabu Sabu and he gets his ass kicked. He’s mimicking his moves, setting up tables, setting up chairs and it wasn’t working at all. But he just kept doing it. Sabu didn’t botch anything so that was a plus. It’s an enjoyable match but it’s really confusing what Candido was doing.
*****


_ECW Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Mike Awesome(c) w/Judge Jeff Jones vs. Masato Tanaka *

Amazing. I’ve seen them wrestle before but it’s been a while and it’s just the best. It’s an absolute war and the way they work it is perfect. Tanaka shows a ton of heart and has the crowd loving him. Awesome should have been a much bigger star than he was, the fact that WCW signed him and gave him a gimmick of liking fat girls is a shame. He looks like a monster and does things better in the ring than just about anyone else that I’ve ever seen at that size. They throw bombs at each other the whole time and Tanaka plays the underdog with a lot of heart. His offense feels like someone trying to slay a monster and Awesome conveys the “you’ve got to be shitting me” everytime Tanaka kicks out of something. The story worked and they had a war. There’s not much more I want to see in a wrestling match than this.
*****¼ *


_ECW Television Championship Match:_
*Taz vs. Rob Van Dam(c) w/Bill Alfonso *

I liked the clashing styles. RVD and all of his flips and kicks and Taz just being a badass. Nothing sums up the difference better than when RVD takes a chair, does one of his roles, and just gets leveled by Taz with a clothesline. The heel/face dynamic was confusing though. Alfonso blatantly interferes to help RVD but Taz is also out there flipping off the crowd. The ending was weak as well. Taz looks like he’s taking control, Alfonso gets involved, and then RVD hits a bunch of moves for the win. A little more drama at the end would have been nice. I liked the fight feeling and their styles meshed well together. Just seem things that could have made this a lot more enjoyable. It also didn’t help that they mentioned Taz was leaving ECW soon after this match.
***¾ *


*Rhino, Lance Storm, and Justin Credible w/Dawn Marie and Jason Night vs. Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, and Raven w/Francine *

The match is intriguing because of Sandmand, Dreamer, and Raven all the same team and the history that they have together. That being said this isn’t a PPV main event. This is something you do as the main event on a weekly TV show. The show ended up being 2 hours and 36 minutes so it’s not like they were strapped for time but this didn’t make the 10 minute mark. I liked seeing Raven being an asshole to hit team. It was funny when he set a table up for Dreamer, had Dreamer run the ropes, and then gave him a drop toe hold into the chair, then launched himself over the top rope onto the guy on the table, and missed… The ending played more on that dynamic with Raven hitting Sandman with a cane by mistake and not really caring at all allowing Sandman to get pinned. I enjoyed all of this but the main event is not the place for doing this. 
***½ *


I’m usually not a big fan of the original ECW. A lot of what I saw on this was really trashy. That being said Awesome/Tanaka was amazing and the Three Way Dance was also excellent. And while I would get tired of the style if that’s all I watched the hardcore matches and wild brawls in the crowd were fun to watch for this show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Shawn Michaels vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts
> Mid South Wrestling • February 1, 1985
> 
> WWE Tag Team Championship Match
> ...


Some more matches for the HBK Unreleased set. The LOD tag is a ton of fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Full listings have been revealed. Set looks sweeet:



> DISC 1
> 
> Proud of the Future
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hope they continue to do these sets with various wrestlers. I would love a Vader one.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

has anyone else watched osw reviews? they're quite fun :cozy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A VADER set would be sublime. 

Bring back blu rays for this.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

*NWA Starrcade 1987 - "Chi-Town Heat"*

*Eddie Gilbert, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Steiner (w/Baby Doll) vs. Sting & The Fabulous Freebirds (Jimmy Garvin & Michael Hayes) (w/Precious): ****
Pretty fun opener. The crowd was hot for the freebirds which added something to their basic offence. Especially Hayes. Rick Steiner had some nice looking power moves and showed them off well. The match was at its best when they all ran in a brawled with each other. 

*UWF Heavyweight Title Match - Steve Williams (c) vs. Barry Windham: *½ * 
This was disappointing. Loved Dr Death but this clearly isn't his prime and he was slow, looked lost when on top and was pretty dull as well. Windham was better when he was controlling the match which wasn’t often enough and the match fell apart after the accidental ball shot. 

*Scaffold Tag Team Match - The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) (w/Big Bubba Rogers & Jim Cornette) vs. The Rock 'n' Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson): ****
Tough stipulation to get a good and exciting match out of but they did it. If anyone could, they would. A normal match would’ve been better or at least a No DQ match but oh well, decent enough. The crowd was hot for it and 

*NWA World Television Title / UWF Television Title Unification Match - Nikita Koloff (c) vs. Terry Taylor (w/Eddie Gilbert) (c): * *
When Koloff kept on targeting the arm I thought to myself that Terry Taylor is just going to be sell it by the end. And that’s exactly what happened. Now if Nikita Koloff did something other than slapping on an arm lock, then that’s one thing but that’s all he did. It was so dull and by the end, it didn't even matter because there was no follow up or selling. Awful. 

*NWA World Tag Team Title Match - Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (w/JJ Dillon) (c) vs. The Road Warriors (Road Warrior Animal & Road Warrior Hawk) (w/Paul Ellering): ***¼ *
Really good for the most part. Double A and Tully was excellent in their heel roles and did some tremendous work on the legs of Road Warrior Hawk. They were very cleaver in the ways of cutting of the ring and their cheating methods. Just the little things. The hot tag was great and the crowd went bananas as Gorilla Monsoon would say (wrong company though). The finish was kinda disappointing and a terrible choice for this match. The crowd was hot for the Road Warriors and it’s in Chicago. The finish took some of the impact away but real good match for the most part.

*NWA United States Heavyweight Title Vs. Career Steel Cage Match - Lex Luger (w/JJ Dillon) (c) vs. Dusty Rhodes (w/Johnny Weaver): **
This….this was rough to watch. Felt much longer than 15-16 minutes, so dull and boring. How can you make a steel cage match boring? They both had each other in an arm lock for the most part and like the Nikita Koloff match, there was no variety in the arm work. It was basically a rest hold. No that’s exactly what it was. They were both gassed within minutes. The finish was nice hence the rating otherwise. This match was pretty awful. Some huge Dusty may like it but it wasn’t for me. 

*NWA World Heavyweight Title Steel Cage Match - Ronnie Garvin (c) vs. Ric Flair: ****
I liked the match. It was smartly worked and built towards a good finish pretty well. The crowd was hit and miss here. Sometimes they were into the match but other times, there was silence and no heat to it. The crowd booed Garvin, the face which didn’t help. In cage matches, I do think the cage should be used more. I bring it up because they used it sparling here but they teased it being used a few times and it built up tension for that eventual spot. Crowd went nuts for Flair winning as did I but I can’t help but feel that Garvin was just tossed aside here. Oh well. Flair is champion again!

*Overall*
There was real stinkers on this show. Luger/Dusty, Nikita Koloff/Terry Taylor and Dr Death/Windham. They really took away from the show. The rest was all pretty good. Nothing blow away. Then again, I didn’t expect any due to the event’s reputation. The main event was good but lacked heat in some crucial parts of it to get that extra level of excitement that was needed.The finish really took away from the Road Warriors vs Arn/Tully match but that was still MOTN by far. Opener was decent enough. I expected to hate the scaffold match but it turned out to be quite an enjoyable experience. 5/10


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

A vader set would be great but I would recommend the Network Collection the Network released on Vader


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just saw this for the Regal fans.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

been watching a lot of random stuff lately. 

going to watch hhh/lesnar steel cage (extreme rules?), shield vs evolution extreme rules 2014 and team wcw vs team nwo hollywood vs nwo wolfpac wargames

:side: pretty sure I've watched them all before but let's see how it goes tonight, i'm pretty wasted so may be enjoyable. :usangle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well you'll need to be wasted to enjoy them. Not so much the Shield/Evolution tag (which I seem to remember being good?), but the other 2? Alcohol is definitely needed .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lesnar/HHH cage match :tripsscust

Featured GOAT-esque Brock selling but that's about it. Don't care if he won, shiiiiiiiite booking and fuck off HHH.

Activity in the thread :wow


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Let's keep the ball rolling!  Current WWE product is hot garbage, but you guys should really check out that New Day/Bar tag team match from last week's Smackdown. Sooooo good. Definitely one of the best main roster matches the company's had all year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I probably will eventually, but the prospect of what is generally considered good from WWE these days really doesn't lead me to believe it would be. It's been forever since I saw a current Cesaro match though, so that alone wants to give me some glimmer of hope.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I probably will eventually, *but the prospect of what is generally considered good from WWE these days really doesn't lead me to believe it would be.* It's been forever since I saw a current Cesaro match though, so that alone wants to give me some glimmer of hope.


To be fair, I think that today's generation/audience of WWE fans (not wrestling fans, just WWE fans) has grown on a different set of costumes and beliefs about what constitutes good wrestling for them. They have been taught, either by the WWE themselves or by a superficial browsing of internet fandom, that wrestling is all about moves and not much thought is needed to be put forth into the booking and the stories being told, cause as long as there's all sorts of Superplexes and finisher fests, they're good to chant "this is awesome" (the most overblown and hyperbolic chant in history) and call it a fun night. And that's not really their fault, nor should they be judged for having a totally different opinion, even if folks like us totally disagree with it. I personally think that treating wrestling matches like excuses to put mindless circus flips for no logical reason is lazy and shit-eating as fuck, but that's just me. We're living in an age where the artform of wrestling struggles to maintain itself mainstream and does whatever it can to preserve the existing audience and bring a new one, using flashiness to its advantage. Our tastes are really only survived by a handful of guys out there.

On the other hand, it's funny that the NXT brand, despite being designed towards the nichest of niche, does a better job of putting out there a product worth investing (though it is a shell of its 2013-2014 self, but the Takeovers are still awesome), so maybe it's just that the people in charge of the big show are out of touch (which they totally are). But then again, the audience keeps telling them it's okay to be out of touch because we'll keep buying into your product regardless, so the WWE can lazy themselves into a good paycheck all day and all night with a shitty product cause nothing will change. All we know is that the show is in ruins for a multitude of reasons, hundreds of millions of sheep continue to support and consume it, thus using their wallets to let the E know that their nauseating, stupidly written, repetitive and dumb show is doing fine, and everything's the bee's knees. I mean, we're getting Lesnar vs Reigns again at SummerSlam after that absolute debacle of a match at WM this year. That should tell you everything about how little the WWE cares about its fanbase, Reigns' T-shirt sales or his existing talent that's awfully miscast on a Godawful Cena-wannabe babyface character be damned. Whooptie doo.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Was it really that good? Turned off the show before it happened. Gotta seek that out then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When you try to watch Taka Michinoku vs Dick Togo on the Network and the servers are being shit. :lauren


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

yeah, i liked the new day/bar match from SD, but fuck i'm sick of new day's act with the fucking pancakes tbh, so them winning was bleh to me.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Bar/Bludgeon would've been a better match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chance for another Harper vs Cesaro battle and they passed up on it. 

Bastards.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fucking wow hhh/lesnar was hilarious watching while wasted. the booking of this match :lmao dat brock selling though :sodone MY KNEE MY KNEE

shield/evolution was great 

wargames :lmao


----------



## Lord Trigon (Apr 23, 2018)

Finally watched My Name is Paul Heyman, Steph's weak attempts to compliment him are hilariously ineffective. XD


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

So I'm currently in the mix of watching loads of feuds from the 00's period and I'm at the HBK/Angle trilogy (I might watch the 2006 as well) and two matches in, I have mixed feelings about it. The WM 21 match is a very good match, I don't think it was good as it's praised to be, but a quality match nonetheless. However, the second match (Vengeance '05) isn't very good at all. It just isn't compelling enough and rather dull for large potions of the match. It's very on and off at the moment, will have to check out their Iron Man match before giving my full judgement on the feud but right now, it's ehhh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vengeance '05 match is absolutely terrible.

The whole series of matches basically is, but that match especially stood out. The finish making Kurt look like a total idiot so Shawn can win. Ugh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think highly of any of them at all but I do remember Vengeance being a special level of trash. The ending is hilarity. I just went and looked it up on the network and JR actually says "what is Angle thinking here?" Coach: "We're talking a wrestling genius" right before Angle leaps with no plans or course of action and costs himself the match. FUCK LOGIC


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle is literally just leaping off hanging in the air with his arms up. :lmao










I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to LOVE that Vengeance match :cal.

I do really like their WM match though. Holds up extremely well for me every time I watch it, which is always a bit of a surprise to me lol .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM match is good. Not great, just good. Some could argue it's substanceless, but I feel like there's enough of a conductive tissue in pretty much everything they did to keep it going. There's a ton of problems (overlong Ankle Lock at the end and dull-ass start being the main ones), but it did feel like two cocky showmen going out of their way to truly beat the other in their game, with HBK trying to truly outwrestle Angle and the latter trying to outshow the so-called Mr. WrestleMania, and it felt 'epic' in a non-forced way. I can see why some hate it for its clearly try-hard spotfesty nature, but I liked it.

Vengeance match is just boring af, though. There's really nothing there, it's just them throwing moves and.... yeah, nothing else to it. I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed Angle throwing his gorgeous looking Suplexes a million times and HBK doing random comeback moves, but it totally felt like they were never going anywhere. Being DULL as shit doesn't help. The ending is testicles. So hilariously idiotic :lol

I have zero memory of their Iron Man or First Blood matches, but I can imagine they were very much like the Vengeance match too :lol


----------



## Black Metal (Apr 30, 2018)

Hot take: Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle had poor chemistry and was a feud I wasn't overly satisfied with unfortunately.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

The HBK/Angle feud had the Sexy Kurt segment and Angle vs. Jannetty. That made it worth existing for me.

I remember the story Kurt told on one of Austin's podcast episodes about all the shit he took before the Wrestlemania match vs. HBK and how he had a hard time even getting out of bed. I'm more impressed with how that match even exists and Angle isn't dead now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't watched Finlay vs Mark Henry Belfast Brawl from Armageddon 2008 damn near since it aired. Nearly ten years sleeping on a match I remembered as being great, and that undersells it. It's about as excellent of a ten minute sprint-y brawl could be for that promotion, with EVERYTHING looking terrific. Henry puts a trash can in-between he and Finlay, and proceeds to squish it into Finlay's face like a human trash compactor by leaning foward. :mark:

I also have an unspoken rule loving brawls that have only one or very minimal pinfall attempts in it. This lives up to that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that match ROCKS.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I've been off these boards for sometime and breaking on wrestling at points but I do love myself some Finlay especially his time WWE near '06. That match looks interesting. 

You win me over to find that for the day Obfuscation. Thanks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's chalk full of Finlay (and Henry) goodness. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finlay goodness always reminds me of the epic showdown with Benoit @ JD '06 for me. Whether is it his best match or not is debatable, but it's certainly up there at the absolute least; and it's arguably his most iconic too. Shocks me that it's actually "mainstream" to like that match as well (usually that kind of match isn't as appreciated outside of the old school-style lovers circle).

Benoit may have been a dickwad as a human being, but at least he was an incredible in-ring performer and brought the best out of most people with his style. Finlay does usually the same. A match made in heaven.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't know what's worse there, the dickwad line because putting over Benoit can't be met without some needless morality complex or calling him an "in-ring performer".

We're all insiders now. Thanks WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I don't know what's worse there, the dickwad line because putting over Benoit can't be met without some needless morality complex or calling him an "in-ring performer".
> 
> We're all insiders now. Thanks WWE.


I know what's worse: that you're really that bothered by that. Sorry if I don't always have an easy time putting Benoit's wrestling ability over, knowing that I would have to praise a scumbag of a human being for his really good work on a fake sport. I know this is a wrestling forum, but yeah, I sometimes can't help myself. But apparently I can't do that anymore, it seems. Though yes, it's no secret that he was a great *wrestler*. There. It is the more correct term anyway, so no trouble there.

But before this argument gets out of control, let's stop it right here, I'd say.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

Speaking of Angle, does anyone think he had better matches with Eddie on Smackdown than any of the matches they had on PPV (Summerslam and Mania in 04). They had a 2/3 falls and lumberjack match on the show between 04/05 which I though were tremendous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

rude awakening said:


> Speaking of Angle, does anyone think he had better matches with Eddie on Smackdown than any of the matches they had on PPV (Summerslam and Mania in 04). They had a 2/3 falls and lumberjack match on the show between 04/05 which I though were tremendous.


I think I only like one of their matches, which is one of the TV ones. WM is bad and SS is a contender for worst WWE match ever imo. They did not have good chemistry 99% of the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Angle wasn't usually a good pairing at all. Not even sure I care for their 2/3 Falls match, which tends to be the token talked up match. Was a farcry from the Eddie classics circa 2004 vs JBL, Show, and (maybe because it has been a while) Brock.

Looking up Angle's 2004, worked vs Mysterio twice. Now both of those are piquing my interest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, you're not wrong about that TV > PPV thing for that particular pairing. Tbh I haven't seen those matches in at least 3-4 years, but I remember liking the 2/3 Falls one. Never saw the Lumberjack match, apart from having the idea that it was the infamous match where Eddie didn't want to be touched by anyone (the unfortunately misread signs of his deteriorating health). 

The WM 20 match is, off my memory, an odd one to judge. If you watch it as "just" Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle, it's watchable, I guess... it was dullishly paced and it had some really frustrating moments of poor selling (from Eddie of all people, believe it or not), but at least the story that the standalone match was telling was simple enough and mostly worked where it needed to, and I do love the ending a lot. But if you watch it in correlation to its build-up, it's extremely bizarre, if not outright bad. Terrible, even. They were building up this absolute blood feud and promised a brawl between the two - and yeah, the build-up itself, going by the promo package, seemed like it was fantastic; basically an early version of the 2012 Punk vs Jericho feud with Angle trying to expose Eddie as a dishonorable champion with a shady past - but what we got instead was a tame and borderline mediocre 'technical wrestling match' that felt right on cue as a Raw or Smackdown Main Event instead (or a regular PPV undercard, if you wanna be generous). It depends on your perspective, really. There's merit to the match, but it's also extremely misaligned with its supposed ambitions (although I imagine the ambition always was to have a 'showstealing technical match', which it still failed as far as I'm concerned, but then why build this blood feud heat to it? A huge, collective 'huh?' haunts that match big time).

SummerSlam 2004 I feel like I would need to write a novel to explain just how scattershot and abysmal it is. It's Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero dumping all sort of fucks they had to give out the window and just spamming as many big moves as they could with absolutely little to no rhyme or reason. I genuinely believe that the two wanted to really bring their A-game from an athleticism and high performance perspective, and I commend them - just like I commend any wrestler, for that matter - for going out of their way to put their bodies on the line for our enjoyment. But wrestling is not about those things individually (hell, it's barely about those things at all; you don't have to be super athletic to tell an incredible story and be a great wrestler as a result). And this match couldn't tell a half-baked story to save its life. It's pathetic how almost everything was flipped on its head, from the two of them throwing finishers at the beginning of the match, to Angle softening the ankle for the Ankle Lock after he had already executed the hold MULTIPLE TIMES and failed to submit Eddie to it, to Eddie virtually no selling almost everything, to more finishers for zero reason..... I think that the two of them were given a backwards script, cause the match felt backwards to me. God, they had some really good things going with the "can Eddie win without cheating" backstory + callbacks to the boot ending of WM 20.... the match almost writes itself. But they squandered it enormously. A fucking disaster of a match, maybe the worst either has ever competed in.

So yeah. I haven't seen the 2/3 Falls match in years, and I don't recall seeing the other one at all, but I doubt that they're any worse than the PPV matches.


----------



## rude awakening (Aug 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> Yeah, you're not wrong about that TV > PPV thing for that particular pairing. Tbh I haven't seen those matches in at least 3-4 years, but I remember liking the 2/3 Falls one. Never saw the Lumberjack match, apart from having the idea that it was the infamous match where Eddie didn't want to be touched by anyone (the unfortunately misread signs of his deteriorating health).
> 
> The WM 20 match is, off my memory, an odd one to judge. If you watch it as "just" Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle, it's watchable, I guess... it was dullishly paced and it had some really frustrating moments of poor selling (from Eddie of all people, believe it or not), but at least the story that the standalone match was telling was simple enough and mostly worked where it needed to, and I do love the ending a lot. But if you watch it in correlation to its build-up, it's extremely bizarre, if not outright bad. Terrible, even. They were building up this absolute blood feud and promised a brawl between the two - and yeah, the build-up itself, going by the promo package, seemed like it was fantastic; basically an early version of the 2012 Punk vs Jericho feud with Angle trying to expose Eddie as a dishonorable champion with a shady past - but what we got instead was a tame and borderline mediocre 'technical wrestling match' that felt right on cue as a Raw or Smackdown Main Event instead (or a regular PPV undercard, if you wanna be generous). It depends on your perspective, really. There's merit to the match, but it's also extremely misaligned with its supposed ambitions (although I imagine the ambition always was to have a 'showstealing technical match', which it still failed as far as I'm concerned, but then why build this blood feud heat to it? A huge, collective 'huh?' haunts that match big time).
> 
> ...


That's a good point on the WM match, at the time I was expecting something with a bit more hatred from both guys but it just turned into a standard wrestling match with no depth. I generally rate Eddie as the best wrestler in the company that year but the Angle matches on PPV didn't really bring out his best qualities.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Is the Diesel/Shawn vs Yokozuna/Owen Hart from In Your House 3 any good? Have never watched it and just seen it in a pack - might give it a watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kenny said:


> Is the Diesel/Shawn vs Yokozuna/Owen Hart from In Your House 3 any good? Have never watched it and just seen it in a pack - might give it a watch.


I seem to remember it being fun.

Speaking of tag matches at IYH PPV's... have you seen the big 6 man with HBK/Ahmed/SID Vs Vader/Owen/Bulldog? Its pretty fucking tremendous.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

No I haven't, but whoa that does sound amazing. 

SID


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kenny said:


> No I haven't, but whoa that does sound amazing.
> 
> SID


Make sure you see the video package before it too. Ultimate Warrior was the original partner for HBK and Ahmed, but he got fired for no showing at the time so they brought back SID and he does some crazy shit and its awesome :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Talking about In Your House tag team matches how's about Owen & Yokozuna vs Allied Powers. So simple, so fun.

If only they actually called Owen & Yoko the Axis Powers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I also enjoyed their matches with the Smoking Gunns for the tag titles (Yoku and Owen, that is). Owen and Yoku might not have been the DREAM TEAM or anything, but they had fun matches for the most part.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kenny said:


> No I haven't, but whoa that does sound amazing.
> 
> SID


I reviewed it here http://zep81wrestlingreviews.blogspot.com/2017/02/vader-owen-hart-davey-boy-smith-vs.html?m=1


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I loved Owen & Yoko so much going through their run years back. Obese athletic behemoth coupled with prodigy jerkass could only have worked out magic for me. I wish they got more lengthier matches in addition to the squashes but I love it all the same. The Allied powers tag was a favourite of mine, wonder how much I'd like it now in comparison. 

I do really really like that 96 3-on-3 too. Not been the biggest Michaels for a while but agree with most that he was on a tear in 96. Other than that horrendous first match with Bulldog. He has the fun tv matches with Leif Cassidy, Helmsley, Owen, Kid, Jannetty to make up for it though. Goooood ass year, that Michaels in 96.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Owen Hart: Prodigy jerkass. 

If only he had the BAD ARM in his repertoire. 

Unsure if the Rad Radford match vs Shawn was late 1995 or early 1996, but I group that in with the rest of the TV stuff. Shawn vs Helmsley on RAW circa May is an absolute slog, though. Find that funny when everyone else was working pretty well carrying or with the shithead, that buddy unit failed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ARM BAD. Don't remember the Radford match myself.

Pretty sure the May match is the one I liked (only one that happened?). Hope I still like it if I watch it again because if not, I may be down to one match of their's I actually enjoy (12/29/03...not even sure how I'd feel about that nowadays). I know I'd still find the headlock/nose spot amusing.

I missed the talk above earlier but yeah I much prefer Eddie/Angle on TV to PPV. Mania match does little for me and the Summerslam match is like, almost what I'd call a dud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love that I already screwed up the banter. It's now both. ARM BAD/BAD ARM.

This is an opinion from two years ago, but I never forgot how long that match felt for about 12 minutes or so. (obnoxious factoid incoming) I was really high when I was watching it and maybe that had something to do with it? But I went from digging Bulldog trying to drown Shawn at the beach while both were wearing hilariously very tight shorts, to wanting RAW to end because the Clique collision wasn't worth seeing.

That's the nicest comment I've seen you make regarding the SummerSlam 2004 match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another pairing that worked better on TV than on PPV is Orton vs Bryan. Raw matches from December 2013 and early 2014 are really good or great. I don't wanna say Orton was on crack for all of those or anything like that, but he looked like it, especially compared to his... tame performances in the PPV matches, but either way, and it was for the better, cause he looked iconic in those matches. Bryan was Bryan, nothing else you need to say. December match is one of the most well booked TV matches in recent history, at least from the WWE.

On the other hand, PPV matches weren't bad but they were far below those standards. NOC match was decent but it never got off from second/third gear, Battleground match was ruined by the Godawful Big Show ending when it was getting good, and the HIAC match was arguably the best one but was also harmed by overbooking and shenanigans. Their chemistry wasn't all that worked out in these matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2014-2016 is still my WWE blind spot so I don't think I ever saw any of those Bryan/Ortons. Maybe one?



Obfuscation said:


> But I went from digging Bulldog trying to drown Shawn at the beach while both were wearing hilariously very tight shorts,


:CENA Watching this tomorrow. Sounds like 1993 WCW. Or whatever year DDP was a homeless person.



Obfuscation said:


> That's the nicest comment I've seen you make regarding the SummerSlam 2004 match.


I backspaced "really fucking terrible" just because it's been so long since I've seen it. :lol Doubt it isn't, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Another pairing that worked better on TV than on PPV is Orton vs Bryan. Raw matches from December 2013 and early 2014 are really good or great. I don't wanna say Orton was on crack for all of those or anything like that, but he looked like it, especially compared to his... tame performances in the PPV matches, but either way, and it was for the better, cause he looked iconic in those matches. Bryan was Bryan, nothing else you need to say. December match is one of the most well booked TV matches in recent history, at least from the WWE.
> 
> On the other hand, PPV matches weren't bad but they were far below those standards. NOC match was decent but it never got off from second/third gear, Battleground match was ruined by the Godawful Big Show ending when it was getting good, and the HIAC match was arguably the best one but was also harmed by overbooking and shenanigans. Their chemistry wasn't all that worked out in these matches.





Yeah1993 said:


> 2014-2016 is still my WWE blind spot so I don't think I ever saw any of those Bryan/Ortons. Maybe one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bryan/Orton from the Dec '13 Raw is fucking tremendous and one of the top teir Raw matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> :CENA Watching this tomorrow. Sounds like 1993 WCW. Or whatever year DDP was a homeless person.
> 
> 
> 
> I backspaced "really fucking terrible" just because it's been so long since I've seen it. :lol Doubt it isn't, though.


Don't you just love wrestling when such comments like drowning a wrestler in comical shorts or remembering when a legend was homeless for a year are common things we can discuss? Of course you do. I know I do, too.

I'll hold up. I've seen that PPV so much that I know Angle vs Eddie like the back of my hand. Because for some reason I never skipped it, either. They just throw stuff at a wall and hope it sticks. Which is also too nice to put it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Don't you just love wrestling when such comments like drowning a wrestler in comical shorts or remembering when a legend was homeless for a year are common things we can discuss? Of course you do. I know I do, too.


Watched it. It was less silly than I expected but I'm considering that a good thing because what I caught of Davey's shit-talking (ocean waves make noise) ruled. 

I need to go on a vignette/promo tear to remind myself wrestling used to be awesome outside of the ring, too. Wonder if there's a WWE Network tag that'll make some stuff come up. Like typing in "microphone" or something. Gonna need to go elsewhere for the ECW 'Pulp Fiction promos' so they aren't too edited, though. :hmm: I need that Misirlou.



EDIT - 

How have I never seen this before? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched it. It was less silly than I expected but I'm considering that a good thing because what I caught of Davey's shit-talking (ocean waves make noise) ruled.
> 
> I need to go on a vignette/promo tear to remind myself wrestling used to be awesome outside of the ring, too. Wonder if there's a WWE Network tag that'll make some stuff come up. Like typing in "microphone" or something. Gonna need to go elsewhere for the ECW 'Pulp Fiction promos' so they aren't too edited, though. :hmm: I need that Misirlou.
> 
> ...


It was mostly the segue into it + my current state that just cracked me up with it. But any/all wrestling that veers into someone trying to harm someone outside of a match with trash talking is going to land with me, possibly humorous or not.

That voice over + disjointed nature of the promos to match the narrative(s) in *Pulp Fiction*, lolz. Lowkey had hoped there was someone talking about feet or calling themselves the Foot Fucking Master of ECW in there, though. :hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Lowkey had hoped there was someone talking about feet or calling themselves the Foot Fucking Master of ECW in there, though. :hmm:


Might exist, there are a bunch of these 'Pulp Fiction promo' packages every year from (I think) 95-01. And ECW was definitely sleazy enough to pull something like that off. So there's hope. I mean this is the same company that had 19 year old Kimona Wanalaya almost-nude stripping to Alice in Chains and IIRC she licked her own nipples during it. Again with the references to outer-ring stuff, because wrestling can be THE BEST.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Might exist, there are a bunch of these 'Pulp Fiction promo' packages every year from (I think) 95-01. And ECW was definitely sleazy enough to pull something like that off. So there's hope. I mean this is the same company that had 19 year old Kimona Wanalaya almost-nude stripping to Alice in Chains and IIRC she licked her own nipples during it. Again with the references to outer-ring stuff, because wrestling can be THE BEST.


Despite knowing about the different types of vignettes ECW did during the tenure, this feels like something I've never known about. The search is on. :hmm:

And she danced just to distract because there was a power outage or something. Proper wrestling sleaze.

This isn't sleazy or anything, but backs up a non-wrestling moment within wrestling that's great, and it was a Foley promo on the go-home RAW before SummerSlam '98, where he's shoving a thumbtack into his face because he's got a Hell in a Cell match later. I'm just sitting here like holy shit, he's done it again.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> I seem to remember it being fun.
> 
> Speaking of tag matches at IYH PPV's... have you seen the big 6 man with HBK/Ahmed/SID Vs Vader/Owen/Bulldog? Its pretty fucking tremendous.


Is this the one here?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5tf3w0


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kenny said:


> Is this the one here?
> 
> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5tf3w0


Yesh, that be the match .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Going to watch tonight. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So we are not going to talk about the babyface team name being The People's Posse?

Because I feel like we have to a little bit. 

Plus: those shirts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rule #1 of the People's Posse: Never talk about the name People's Posse.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm sure Ahmed has a few times, but nobody could tell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ahmed the botch machine (shock horror) in that match IIRC.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sid was a lot of fun in that match. Most over I remember him being during that stint.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

These shows put me in such an inner conflict at times :trips7

I actually liked the ending to both Joe/Styles *and * Miz/Bryan. I know it doesn't make any sense at all to actually start escalating a feud with screwy finishes on one of the PPV's where those feuds should actually be ending in a decisive, clear manner, but I'll take what I can get by now.

If we take these matches out of that context, I thought the finish to Bryan/Miz was decently executed, nothing spectacular, but fine for the continuation of the story; Joe/Styles finish I thought was pretty fucking good actually, Joe was quite the cunt :lmao It actually properly heated up what was a very lukewarm feud, not surprising considering the tiny build-up it got up to the actual match. But now the longer this goes, the more I think they're gonna completely ruin it, which is way more annoying when they actually managed to stumble into something you can actually feel invested in. Ah well. Both good matches though, I enjoyed those.

I genuinely wanted Rousey/Bliss to go on for like 7 or 8 more minutes tbh, I was enjoying the comical over-the-top selling and the completely ineffective offense by Bliss. It's probably not a good idea to have someone who's already a 5-time champion be *that* pathetic against pretty much any challenger, but the fact that Bliss actually seems like a regular person with some decent situational comedy chops made me think it could end up being pretty fun if it lasted a while longer.

Edit: Okay so on a rewatch, she was probably A LOT more pathetic than she should've been, but I stand by my general opinion nonetheless :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Caught myself up with the NXT Takeovers (only saw the first two matches of the previous one).

Thoughts on Chicago II in spoilers:


Spoiler: NXT Takeover Chicago II



Chicago II, overall, was a great show. A clear improvement over the 'only' solid Chicago I [which had one phenomenal match (Bate vs Dunne) and a decent Main Event (AOP vs DIY), but pretty much nothing else; Roode vs Itami was middling imo, for those who ask].

My opinion on the two openers remains the same as before: the Tag match starts off-beat and terrible, but once it kicks into fourth gear and Lorcan comes in with his hot (lukewarm, going by the crowd) tag, it turns into something pretty remarkable. And Dream vs Ricochet is still a good match, very good match even and one that resonated with me more than the first time I saw it, but also I remain on the stance that it was overlong, unnecessarily try-hard and a bit of a forced epic from the third act onwards (though I loved the high flying ending). Regardless, big props to both of them, and fuckin' hell, Dream really is a wrestling God. 

From here on out it was uncharted territory for me. Shayna vs Nikki is a perfectly fine match, not a Sasha vs Bayley classic or anything like that, but further proof that Shayna is an effective heel that does her job pretty well, and Nikki worked nicely as a much more natural actress for the character that WWE really wants Dean Ambrose to be. It was short, a little awkward at points, predictable, and overshadowed by whatever shenanigans were going on in the crowd, but the work done by the ladies was solid nonetheless. 

Black vs Sullivan doesn't seem to be a very revered match by the internet, unsurprising both because I wouldn't call matches featuring huge brutes without flashy moves as a fandom darling these days (Strowman aside, obviously), and because of the big, bad botch near the end, which was..... y'know, big and bad. Taking that botch out of the equation, I still found the remaining match pretty solid, with Sullivan doing fine work as a monstruous but also smart brute who is clever enough to exploit weaknesses at the right time (and that Overhead Boston Crab better be his finisher cause it looked brutal) and Aleister surviving just long enough, doing some good selling of his leg throughout the way. Feel like Sullivan needs to work on his control segments a bit more, I would say, but for the most part, his work was polished on the edges. Not a very good match, but definitely not bad either. 

And finally, Gargano vs Ciampa II, while sorta unnecessary due to the first match already being Unsanctioned and the babyface coming out on top, was nonetheless a terrific sequel to an excellent first match between the two, with both of them using everything and the kitchen sink to beat the ever loving fuck out of each other. It felt different from the New Orleans fight, which was very methodical and emotion-driven, while this was more of your standard WWE No DQ match... however, it felt a lot more personal, wild and one could even say innovative in some areas even than the vast majority of No DQ matches within the PG restrictions (I don't think I remember ever seeing the ring getting unpadded like that before in a match, though it looked silly at first and Ciampa really could've just used the garden lopper as a weapon anyway) was fantastically well done, with so much story and so much depth in pretty much everything that they did. One could argue that the ending was wacky and bullshitty, but ehh, I feel like they set it up decently enough. I don't know if I liked it more than the first match, cause again, they're kinda apples to oranges, but I know that I really enjoyed this. Final consensus: big thumbs up and fantastic follow-up to the incredible New Orleans PPV.


Brooklyn IV. I'd say this was not only the weakest of the four Brooklyn shows so far, but one of the weaker Takeovers for me in a while......... and that's saying something, considering I still really fucking liked this show. Two great matches, a good Main Event and a decent women's match were the anchors for another NXT Takeover winner of an event.

Undisputed Era vs Moustache Mountain is yet another kick-ass Title match, and for TUE it's at least on par with the supreme AOP match @ Philadelphia and possibly the Lorcan/Burch match @ Chicago II as well. Had some issues (finisher kick-outs in the opener of a PPV is about as blah as you get, despite the blow softener of this being the trilogy capper for the two teams; starting minutes were a little off for me and the beginning portion was fine but also stuck in a bland second-third gear limbo, due to the unexciting nature of Bate and Seven's face in peril selling), but similar to that Lorcan/Burch match, once it got kicking, it got Bruce Lee'ing. Bate is otherwordly. The kid is an absolute genius. TUE's team work was sound and solid as well. I did not see either of their previous two matches, for the record, but thankfully the commentators let me know on what the story was, and the Seven towel stunt worked with me all the same. Really good match, overall. War Machine/Raiders beatdown was gold.

Dream vs EC3 isn't a match that I was very interested on tbh, since EC3 really has no business being a babyface and Dream is over as fuck but he's too good as a heel as well (though I'd buy him as a babyface before I'd buy EC3, so the argument is there that the alignments were flipped for my tastes). And yup, my fears were confirmed. Average at best fluff, and the least fun I've had with a Takeover match ft Dream (I even remember enjoying the Ohno match that everyone forgot about more). The few very fun parts usually came from Dream's antics, selling or bumping. A couple of stiff shots every now and then to bump up interest. Otherwise, it was a bit of a snooze. Despite the injured neck giving him something to do, EC3 as face was awkward as fuck and pretty unbelievable. Crowd wasn't having any of face EC3 either, which didn't help the chorefest (yeah, they were resting after the great opener, but Dream vs Ricochet in the previous PPV was a hot match, so no excuses). The two had very little chemistry, control segments for either were more dull than watching paint dry and it probably wasn't too long but felt like it dragged on endlessly. I was bored and didn't really care about this one. Nice ending, though.

Cole vs Ricochet took no more than 5 minutes for me to like it 10x more than the stinker it followed. Didn't expect it to become utterly fantastic as it did, though. Wow. Great stuff. Anchored by one simple sentence that made all the difference in the story being told: "you're not special". It built up, built up and built up to a crescendo pay-off that was totally worth it, and it was the match's heart and soul. Cole was fire, with his confidence, taunting and timing here. He was the perfect cocky heel to play off of Ricochet's plucky high-flying babyface. In return, Ricochet proved that he is a monstruous workhorse of a man and that he absolutely is special, leaving no doubts about that. I thought that they were going to head off with Cole retaining after Ricochet not going for a pin and climbing up the top rope instead (which would have hammered in how much Cole did get inside Ricochet's head and would've been a very good ending to solidify Cole as a smart, sly genius heel), but Ricochet kept his calm, pulled that insane Hurricanrana spot and won it all in a fantastic ending to a great match. Only serious flaw was the cringetastic kick/knee trade-off, which made me roll my eyes. Otherwise, hell of a contest.

Shayna vs Kairi right off the bat started on a strong note cause female ref. Ok, maybe that's not a novelty (I didn't watch anything from the Mae Young Classic), but whatever. As for the match, I enjoyed it, but not without some issues. Kairi's selling was questionable. I bought that she was hurt and I liked some of the ways she worked around the hurt leg, but I didn't buy that she was so injured that the bad leg really stopped her in her tracks, like someone who would actually sell the leg greatly would do. Adrenaline rushes I can forgive; Alabama Slamming someone who is bigger and stronger than you with ease despite a bad leg is the kind of bullshit that just ruins my suspension of disbelief. And the ending is the most rematchbaity nonsense imaginable and quite the anti-climax for Shayna's title reign. Despite all of this, Shayna was awesome, once again, being the perfect amalgamation of a bully and a bitch, and Kairi is just so damn likeable and rootable, and I loved how both of them really got inside the other's head and brought something new out of one another (Kairi showing off some fire and killer instinct; Shayna being more emotion-driven and less cold-blooded). The match would've been a lot better if Kairi's selling had been more solid (while not outright bad or awful imo; certainly not Nakamura-piss poor), but I still thought it was solid.

Ciampa vs Gargano III had two tough acts to follow. And the first half of the match immediately set the sentence that it would not live up to them.... luckily, the second half still made sure that at least it threw an attempt at it. The match started off hot, then got pretty slow and lame, then got really hot again and then ended in an.... odd way. The first half of the match I wasn't on board with, as not only was it slow and generic (while having its moments, sure), but it gave me shades of some of that modern wrestling nonsense that I hate so much (like spending too much time setting up tables when your opponent is fucking up already, and trading Superkicks and knees as if they are nothing whatsoever in an absolute no-sell festival). I'm also not really a huge fan of the Last Man Standing format, even though it has potential for some very creative things, mostly because 'creative' is what people never get with LMS, nevermind the questionable selling which was noticeable in that opening portion of the match as a whole. Ciampa unpadding the ring was when the match got good. From that point on, the spots were very naturally setup, as was the selling and how they beat the count of 10, and the match had both the physicality and the storytelling to live up to both its namesake and the previous two matches, and ultimately be a pretty good match all in all. Though I'd be fooling myself if I didn't say that this was my least favorite of the three by a considerable margin. The ending.... ehhhhh. First of all, of all places Gargano could have handcuffed Ciampa, why did it have to be in a place that Ciampa could, you know, stand up? Why not flip him upside down or hang him up from where he couldn't get his feet down in any possible way? Second, why the hell did Gargano fuck himself up the way he did? You could say there's poetic justice in Gargano trying to put away Ciampa with the DIY finisher only to then ending up dislocating his knee and not being able to get himself back up, but weren't there better ways to accomplish the same result without making Gargano look like a total moron? He destroyed himself more than he destroyed Ciampa, without a doubt. And finally, are we really gonna continue this feud? This is the third PPV Main Event in a row for the two of them. I think you cannot possibly do anything else with either of them, unless you bring down Hell In A Cell or something like that. And it makes zero sense for Gargano to get another title shot this year. He's lost every. Single. One of them clean as a whistle, and I believe he's had at least three title matches in 2018 alone by now. Either way, it was a good match and a good closer overall, despite the rough start and blah ending, but I'll still take the New Orleans and Chicago II matches any day.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I like being able to watch a 6 hour show in two and a half hours. Even more so when all my bets come in. Cedric/Gulak was probably the best match on the card but naturally no reaction. Hopefully they rematch on 205 because I bet they've got a great match in them as long as Cedric doesn't spend all of it overacting. Rollins/Ziggler wasn't good but Enforcer Ambrose was cool. I like calmer no nonsense Ambrose. New Day/Bludgeons was kinda fun because they worked hard but doing half your spots on the floor kinda kills the idea of them. Lame finish. The mallets are so fucking dorkey and not in a good pro wrestling way. An even worse finish if you're doing it later with AJ/Joe as well. Someone high up in WWE clearly had the idea of guys rolling out of the ring to avoid top rope spots because they did it in like every other match on both shows this weekend. 

Strowman/Owens was awesome. Owens was probably not the perfect heel to do it with because fans like him and that might cause some resentment towards Braun but nobody needed to see a long Braun/Owens match (even though they actually had a good one earlier this year). I'm massively in favour of more short squash matches like these so naturally I liked this show. 3 way wasn't good. Becky has probably been the best babyface on the womens side the last few years and Charlotte has been the best heel so naturally they turned Becky heel to keep Charlotte face. Joe/AJ was definitely good. Not quite great but it did also have a super shitty cop out finish. Thought Joe was largely really good in this, especially with the trash talking on the mic. This wasn't the great match but it did make me more optimistic that they can have a great match in 2018. Miz/Bryan wasn't good. The story is Miz can't wrestle on Bryan's level yet he basically did. He took control of the match fair and square and worked largely babyface. They've fucked Bryan's return up so bad. This should have been his first match even if it meant doing it in April or holding Bryan off in a wrestling role until now. It's not that he wasn't over here but it was nothing compared to Mania or even during that 2013-14 run. Maryse yelling get outta here at Bryan like a pesky little dog playing too near her baby was magnificent. Finish was good but the match was lackluster. 

Final hour of the show was super weird. Balor/Corbin being what it was was great. Big Bad Corbin freaking out at Balor because he put body paint on was hilarious. Saw someone earlier call him Bartender Corbin and it made me smile a monganoid. This made Balor look like a massive star so well done. Skipped Nakamura/Hardy. Nakamura has made the switch to retirement mode complete with the baggy black pants. Rousey/Bliss was excellent and exactly what it needed to be. Rousey's a superstar. Rousey has no business selling for Alexa so this was perfect. Reigns finally won and it's all over now. Rejoice! Strowman coming out and saying he's not cashing in like a coward and very blatantly teasing making it a 3 way only to get out of the ring and be like but I'll stand here while you two beat each other first and then cash in. Match probably should have just ended after a minute because they lost the crowd as soon as it slowed down. Finish was really flat for such a big moment too. Even when he won it didn't feel like Reigns slayed the beast, he just caught him off guard after Brock was distracted. Whoever wrote the Beastie Boy line is probably wanking themselves into oblivion. There weren't a lot of good matches on the card but there was little I disliked and I got a big kick out of the short matches making people look like stars. *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

seabs said:


> *I like being able to watch a 6 hour show in two and a half hours. Even more so when all my bets come in. Cedric/Gulak was probably the best match on the card but naturally no reaction. Hopefully they rematch on 205 because I bet they've got a great match in them as long as Cedric doesn't spend all of it overacting. Rollins/Ziggler wasn't good but Enforcer Ambrose was cool. I like calmer no nonsense Ambrose. New Day/Bludgeons was kinda fun because they worked hard but doing half your spots on the floor kinda kills the idea of them. Lame finish. The mallets are so fucking dorkey and not in a good pro wrestling way. An even worse finish if you're doing it later with AJ/Joe as well. Someone high up in WWE clearly had the idea of guys rolling out of the ring to avoid top rope spots because they did it in like every other match on both shows this weekend.
> 
> Strowman/Owens was awesome. Owens was probably not the perfect heel to do it with because fans like him and that might cause some resentment towards Braun but nobody needed to see a long Braun/Owens match (even though they actually had a good one earlier this year). I'm massively in favour of more short squash matches like these so naturally I liked this show. 3 way wasn't good. Becky has probably been the best babyface on the womens side the last few years and Charlotte has been the best heel so naturally they turned Becky heel to keep Charlotte face. Joe/AJ was definitely good. Not quite great but it did also have a super shitty cop out finish. Thought Joe was largely really good in this, especially with the trash talking on the mic. This wasn't the great match but it did make me more optimistic that they can have a great match in 2018. Miz/Bryan wasn't good. The story is Miz can't wrestle on Bryan's level yet he basically did. He took control of the match fair and square and worked largely babyface. They've fucked Bryan's return up so bad. This should have been his first match even if it meant doing it in April or holding Bryan off in a wrestling role until now. It's not that he wasn't over here but it was nothing compared to Mania or even during that 2013-14 run. Maryse yelling get outta here at Bryan like a pesky little dog playing too near her baby was magnificent. Finish was good but the match was lackluster.
> 
> Final hour of the show was super weird. Balor/Corbin being what it was was great. Big Bad Corbin freaking out at Balor because he put body paint on was hilarious. Saw someone earlier call him Bartender Corbin and it made me smile a monganoid. This made Balor look like a massive star so well done. Skipped Nakamura/Hardy. Nakamura has made the switch to retirement mode complete with the baggy black pants. Rousey/Bliss was excellent and exactly what it needed to be. Rousey's a superstar. Rousey has no business selling for Alexa so this was perfect. Reigns finally won and it's all over now. Rejoice! Strowman coming out and saying he's not cashing in like a coward and very blatantly teasing making it a 3 way only to get out of the ring and be like but I'll stand here while you two beat each other first and then cash in. Match probably should have just ended after a minute because they lost the crowd as soon as it slowed down. Finish was really flat for such a big moment too. Even when he won it didn't feel like Reigns slayed the beast, he just caught him off guard after Brock was distracted. Whoever wrote the Beastie Boy line is probably wanking themselves into oblivion. There weren't a lot of good matches on the card but there was little I disliked and I got a big kick out of the short matches making people look like stars.*


 How come you managed to survive a shitty 6-hour wannabe epic show with shitty booking but didn't watch Takeover? C'mon man, you're doing yourself a disservice :lol

Btw, I saw Miz vs Bryan too (just about the only match that truly held my interest on SS - yeah, Styles vs Joe sounded cool but I don't need it when I still have their TNA stuff which was always going to be better), and my interpretation of the story wasn't "Miz can't wrestle on Bryan's level", it was "Miz can't wrestle like Bryan, as in he can't be a stiff hard hitter and he's too afraid to take a punch in the face, thus he doesn't have the sense of samurai-like honor that a wrestler should, while Miz himself consistently taunts Bryan back out of sheer frustration". I think that they got that story decently enough, though I do agree that Miz came off as sympathetic sometimes and that Bryan will never hit that 2013-2014 sweet spot of "biggest star since The Rock" again due to the shitty booking of this company. I thought that the match was alright, but not quite as good as I hoped it would've been.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

With Summerslam just on the other week I watched a video about the 10 best opening matches from all Summerslams to see how many I have missed out and not watched as of yet. 

Their list contained:

10. Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero (Summerslam 2006) - I remember watching this at the time it was on, remember liking it thinking it was alright but nothing stands out from memory. 

9. Ricky Steamboat, Texas Tornado and British Bulldogs vs Power and Glory and Warlord (Six-Man tag, Summerslam 1991) - Haven't seen this. 

8. Brain Busters vs Hart Foundation (Summerslam 1989) - havent seen this

7. Rey vs Ziggler (Summerslam 2009) - seen this multiple times, love it. 

6. Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler (Summerslam 2012) - don't remember seeing this one 

5. Hakushi vs 123 Kid (Summerslam 1995) - can't remember seeing this one

4. Edge vs Lance Storm (Summerslam 2001) - pretty sure i've seen this but would need a re watch

3. Dolph Ziggler vs Seth Rollins (Summerslam 2018) - been saving this one, haven't watched yet. 

2. Mankind vs HHH (Summerslam 1997) - pretty sure i've watched this one but will need a re watch. 

1. Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio (Summerslam 2002) - Have seen this one a few times and have always enjoyed it. 

What do people think of the above list? anything you would put differently? i'm hoping to watch the ones i haven't seen tonight.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kenny said:


> With Summerslam just on the other week I watched a video about the 10 best opening matches from all Summerslams to see how many I have missed out and not watched as of yet.
> 
> Their list contained:
> 
> ...


Rey vs Chavo is ehh, Jericho vs Ziggler I also don't really remember much apart from botches, never saw Ziggler vs Rollins and the rest is all good to great (BB vs Harts, Mankind vs HHH and Angle vs Rey being the standouts). The majority of those are worth watching.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Is this thread not a thing anymore? RIP in pieces.

So the main event was bad but at least not in a dull way. Fighting on top of the cell is always kind of tense and the Brock run in was a legit surprise which never happens these days so that was cool. Braun and Roman just playing dead while the rest of The Shield and THE DOGS OF WAR had a weird run in was hilarious. Especially as it was like during the opening third of the match too. Cell bump meant absolutely nothing because it happens literally every year and it's in that weird grey area between high enough to be a dangerous bump but not high enough or unique enough to mean anything. Rollins will probably wrestle tonight on Raw. Bearded Brock climbing up the door into the ring was awesome. I'm also all in on the PEPPER SPRAY being Heyman's new shtick. Imagine if Brock/DC never happens now because Vince paid him millions to have more shitty wrestling matches that his own fans don't want to see.

The rest of the show was all varying levels of good though I thought and easily the best WWE PPV in a long time for actual legit good matches and not just wacky this was an entertaining show if not a good one. New Day tag was a fun enough sub 10 minute tag. Orton/Jeff was actually very watchable for a match I expected to suck. Poor Randy got shredded to pieces. Finish was another case of them making the rules of their world up as they go along. Or changing them as they go along rather. We've seen Jeff do similar spots for decades and they're neither sold this big yet for whatever reason the ref was in hysterics as soon as it happened. WWE should nominate the guy for an Emmy under Best Supporting Actor next year. It's good that they sold it big but when it's inconsistent it just makes you question it and once fans start doing that you take them out of the moment. Becky/Charlotte was absolutely nothing. I got distracted by a video of a guy on a bike trying to jump over obstacles and constantly failing and totally missed the finish. Becky wrestled largely like she did last month before her turn. The babyface announcers then all vindicated her turning heel and being a dick to innocent Charlotte because it won her the title. So as long as you're successful it doesn't matter how you go about it. Not that she even cheated to win because ya know, she's still working as a babyface. Finish was just as flat the time that I actually watched it. Shield tag was actually really good. Not classic good but really good. I'm digging Ambrose as the nutjob trying to stay calm that you know is going to snap at some point and it could be at literally any point. But then when he does it will suck so don't get too excited. Dolph Ziggler is like one of the top stars in WWE this year and Buddy Murphy is having a better year of wrestling than Daniel Bryan's comeback year. Wrestling is weird. AJ/Joe was good but the nobody wins nobody loses finish kill any single match for me no matter how well that type of finish is done. Mixed tag was maybe borderline good. It was short enough and watchable enough though. I'll never get over a) how bad WWE has fucked up Daniel Bryan during this run but also b) how much fans aren't going mad over it. The poor guy was almost struggling to get cheap pops during the match and still hasn't really been in anything all that good depending on what you thought of the Summerslam match. He definitely hasn't been in anything hot since Mania. Rousey/Bliss was the point in the show I got burned out despite liking basically everything on the show. Just because Ronda can have a good competitive match with Alexa and can do a great sell job doesn't mean that she should be. If you go in with the mentality that this is the objective of the match how do you go about achieving it, they did a very good job of achieving it. But what they were achieving wasn't productive. Ronda's fantastic on offence though and was great selling the ribs. Alicia Fox was the MVP of the match. *


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, haven't been on in ages and this thread was the first thread I came to. I was expecting some awesome match recommendations, but sadly it just isn't what it used to be. What has happened to this place?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded the HBK Unreleased set today. Giving it a watch.

Shawn Michaels & Tim Horner vs. Hector & Chavo Guerrero
Mid South Wrestling • January 5, 1985

Well great way to start, just on paper at least, with Hector and Chavo lol. Short match, not quite a squash but definitely a showcase for the Guerrero's who are getting ready for a tag title match. Shawn actually gets in some offence and its just cool to see him in the ring with a Guerrero. Match is worth watching just to hear Bill Watts tell us all the racist shit Chavo Guerrero apparently said :lmao.

Shawn Michaels vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts
Mid South Wrestling • February 1, 1985

Oh man, imagine if we got this match when both men were in their primes? Sadly when HBK was in his prime, Jake was on a major downhill slide. Is Jake one of the biggest "could have been even better if he wasn't so screwed up" guys in the business? Or maybe he was just 5 years too late. Sure he'd still go downhill but he'd be at his best a lot later than he was and we could have gotten prime Jake in early to mid 90's which would have been awesome. I'm just rambling. And drinking. Thinking of changing my name to Andy and moving to Scotland. So the match. Again, another short match which is a showcase for HBK's opponent, but he gets enough stuff in to show off that he was still pretty good even this early in his career. 

The Midnight Rockers vs. “Pretty Boy” Doug Sommers & “Playboy” Buddy Rose
AWA Championship Wrestling • April 1, 1986

"Claiming to weigh 217lbs, Playboy Buddy Rose" :lmao. Guess he was already on his amazing diet even pre-wwf! There is a second tag match between these 2 on here, and honestly I could have seen one or both of them thanks to non official sets for all I know . But since my memory is terrible I might as well just go into everything as if I've never seen them before in my life. Speaking of, I found a Tenryu/Kenta match on my PC that seems interesting. Maybe I'll watch that later. SUPLEY!!! Good tag match, though not exactly one of their classics. Midnight Rockers get the win, which I'm assuming gets them an eventually title shot...

AWA Tag Team Championship Match
The Midnight Rockers vs. “Pretty Boy” Doug Sommers & “Playboy” Buddy Rose
AWA • July 13, 1986

And here is one of their title matches! Ring announcer makes a mistake and says Rose weighs in a 271lbs, so Rose has to correct him. ITS 217LBS!!! "They've got the men they want, when they want them, for what they want them for". Uhhh... ok. Oh. My. God. This. Commentator. Is. Really. Bad. He. Talks. Really. Slowly. Then. Will randomly say an entire sentence. All. At. Once. Also he calls Shawn Michaels "Shawn Michael". But doesn't call Sommers "Sommer". Then he does call Michaels "Michaels". I don't know any more. I want to strangle this motherfucker. I think he's Lord James Blears. Googled AWA commentators and his name came up, and based on one of his promos when he was a wrestler I think its the same voice. He called him "Michael" again. Yeah, that's his real first name, but it isn't his wrestling name. SO STOP IT, JAMES. Bloody Lancastrian. I can't watch this match. Wrestling with no sound is just wrong, so I can't turn down the volume.

The Midnight Rockers vs. Dennis Stamp & Brian Knobbs
AWA • January 11, 1987

Pre-Nasty Boy Knobbs. Interesting. Fook me, who is this referee? He's fatter than Knobbs. You'd think a wrestling referee would need to be a little... fitter. He's bigger than everyone in this match :lmao. Had a quick google to see who is is. Pretty sure this is him: "Nacho Berrera- Fat Hispanic AWA jobber. Absolutely horrible in the ring. Gagne tried to bill him as a former Sumo wrestler. " :lmao. Match is pretty nothing. Short squash, only this time HBK is on the winning side.

The Rockers vs. The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers
Prime Time Wrestling • October 25, 1988

Oh yeah, now we're talking! Seen this match for sure. Double checked the wwf top 100 matches thingy and I wrote about it there and gave it ***. I didn't read what I put though, so amma watch it again anyway. Weird that before this match they have a little "documentary" bit (which they've had before now), and most of it was about Jeff Jarrett... who isn't featured in any matches on this set :lmao. Video quality is weird with this match. Everything seems a little... blurry, especially when they switch to the hard camera that shows all of the ring. Close ups are a little better, but you can definitely see some blur. Really great tag match here though, regardless of video quality. *** definitely seems too low, but perhaps at the time I was watching multiple matches between the two, and the fact it didn't compare to some of their better matches might have made me think it wasn't too good in comparison and made me rate it lower than it deserves. Or maybe I'm just fucking insane lol. 

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
The Rockers vs. Demolition
Prime Time Wrestling • November 1, 1988

Is this the one Andy loves? There is another one on here from 1990, maybe its that one. I dunno. I can't keep up with dates any more. Oh wait, its the Powers of Pain match from 1990. My bad. Andy probably likes this match too anyway. Assuming it isn't a pile of shite. Or IS IT one of the Demolition matches? My brain might as well be declared dead. I am forgetting more and more every day. I probably forget that I'm forgetting certain stuff. Anyway. FUN. You've got 2 big guys against 2 little guys and yeah, you know the drill. Big guys use power, little guys use speed and high flying moves. They mesh together well and create FUN. A spot I've seen a few times from The Rockers against big opponents is where they work over the arm of their opponent and keep tagging in and out and attacking the arm, and its always a blast to watch. No exception here. Even better when AX gets his arm destroyed over and over and finally has enough and just fucking headbutts Jannetty for being a cunt. Probably seen this match before anyway on the Rockers comp, but again, my memory sucks. Its a great watch regardless and wwe releasing this on dvd for more people to see is definitely a good thing.

The Rockers vs. The Brain Busters
Boston, MA (NESN Taping) • January 13, 1989

Another major :mark: match on here. CBA looking up if I've seen it, but odds are I have. Might not be their MSG match from later in the year, but I don't see it being anything less than good. Just like a Rockers Vs Big Men match, you kinda have an idea of what to expect with this match. Rockers have an extended babyface shine period at the start of the match, with Arn and Tully trying everything they can but constantly failing, before they FINALLY gain the advantage and slow the match down. Yes, they have that formula for pretty much all of their matches, but they are never the same match. Same spots in different places, new spots, and whatever else they can throw at us. Tag team heaven, is what it is.Cut off spot to get Arn and Tully in control looks pretty brutal even by today's standards imo. All in all just a terrific match.

The Rockers vs. Hart Foundation
Hamilton, ON, Canada (Dark Match) • December 14, 1989

Hmmm... not really looking forward to this one. Never thought they had much chemistry together. HBK and Bret just never clicked for me, be it singles or tag team action. 

OH MY GOD IS THIS DULL. 10 minutes and they've been taking things extremely slow. I don't have an issue with matches that take it slow, but holy fuck I just don't care here. This isn't some big dream match where they can take their time and tease us or anything. Booooooring. Fuck this.

The Rockers vs. The Orient Express
London, ON, Canada (Dark Match; Prime Time Wrestling Taping) • April 29, 1990

Alrighty, this should be better! Match starts off nice and quick and is already 10000000000000000 times more interesting than the last match I couldn't even sit through in full. Bunch of kids keep running up and down across the first row lol. No idea what's happening. THAT DAMN MR FUJI USING THE CANE! You know tht double team move that TWGTT did? Where one dude held a guy over the ropes and the other would take a run up then leapfrog over him and come crashing down on the opponent's back? Well The Orient Express do that here, except they get about as much air as me playing basketball . Sadly the match ends in a countout just when I think the match was peaking. Big shame there. At least we have their RR match .

The Rockers vs. Demolition
Rochester, NY (Dark Match; Wrestling Challenge Taping) • June 5, 1990

Oh yesh, here we go again :mark:. Oh hey, CRUSH is here now. No commentary for this one, which is honestly nice. Lord Alfred Hayes has been doing commentary for most of the matches in the WWF so far and... well, he isn't exactly JR or Lance Russell. Like the Brainbusters matches, they might have a formula down for the match, but its still different to their others. Especially with Crush being here instead of Ax. Just more great Rockers getting thrown around and beat down + comeback that puts a big smile on my face . If you watch one of these matches and don't have fun then something is wrong with you. Like, go see a doctor. 

The Rockers vs. The Natural Disasters
Prime Time Wrestling • November 4, 1991

I might be excited for this match more than just about anybody. While we've seen The Rockers against TALL men, we've not seen them against FAT MEN. Not like these two, anyway. Buddy Rose was pretty FAT . Fook me, Typhoon hits an "elbow" drop on Marty and I swear half his body ends up landing on poor Marty lol. The Rockers try to modify some of their offence to combat the DISASTERS, but to no avail. Jannetty leaves HBK alone to chase Jimmy Hart, and HBK gets crushed by both Disasters and is PISSED, refusing to be carried out on a stretcher.

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
The Rockers vs. Legion of Doom
Superstars • December 28, 1991

Think I might have saw this pretty recently on youtube. I dunno. Again, brain dead. Fairly short match, but action packed and a ton of fun as you'd expect. A mistake costs The Rockers the match, and yeah, I remember the finish now. Definitely watched it. This along with the Natural Disasters match is all building to their break up :mark:.


And that is disc 1 done! Such fun, and some genuinely great matches. Set is likely gonna go downhill from here, especially disc 3, but I'm on a roll atm so I'll keep watching!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your comment about refs needing to be more fit proves that you don't watch enough Lucha.

MONTERREY LOGIC
@Yeah1993;


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well lucha referees don't matter. Lucha isn't even real wrestling 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

La Parka is gonna beat you up in a dingy arena for this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd be more suited to be a referee given my fitness level .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Rockers/Demolition match from '88 is for sure a top tier WWF tag match and one of my favourites.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shawn Michaels vs. “Superfly” Jimmy Snuka
Madison Square Garden (MSG Network Taping) • January 31, 1992

Snuka gets absolutely zero reaction. Which is quite surprising for him in MSG. HBK comes out to... some odd music I haven't heard before lol. He doesn't have Sherri or his classic theme yet . He at least gets a reaction. Monsoon: "What's that he's got on the back of his jacket?" Heenan: "Leather..." :lmao. Heenan insults Snuka's intelligence throughout the match and its great. Its no Jim Duggan stuff but still fun to listen to. Match is very "basic" but not in a bad way. Snuka tries to slow down Shawn and frustrate him with headlocks and arm locks, and Shawn tries out outsmart and outquick the veteran and its all decent stuff. Snuka isn't exactly in his prime here, and at one point he takes probably the worst shoulder tackle ever, and seems to forget about a spot on the floor leaving Shawn looking like a moron as he waits for Snuka to simply turn around :lmao. Referee starts a 10 count while both are on the floor fighting... then randomly stops when he realises they aren't coming back in yet and this match isn't supposed to end in a double count out :lmao. THAT FIJIAN FLUID IS FLOWING~! Weird seeing the super kick just be a lead-in for the back suplex lol. HBK shizzle with the win! Decent match, but nothing special. Maybe lasted a few minutes too long tbh, which is a complaint I have for a lot of early HBK singles matches. 

Piper’s Pit with Shawn Michaels
Syracuse, NY (Dark Segment; Superstars Taping) • April 29, 1992

Not a match obviously, but hey, might as well ramble on it if something interesting happens. Its Piper, HBK and Sherri in the ring at the same time, so yeah, amma watch. Piper goes out and gets the crowd to ask HBK questions. Some 9 year old boy wants to know why HBK is so sexy :lmao. Then some dude wants to know if Sherri's tits are real :lmao. A few more boring questions, then a plant is asked if she wants to kiss Shawn and she says not a chance. THAT'S A LIE. ALL WOMEN WANT SHAWN. I think. I dunno. 

WWE Intercontinental Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Perfect
Phoenix, AZ (Dark Match; Wrestling Challenge Taping) • April 5, 1993

Perfect Vs HBK in a battle of the overbumping! HBK is winning so far just because he's the only one taking bumps at the start of the match lol. Pretty simple match, but it was a dark match afterall so I doubt they were gonna go and attempt a 5 star classic anyway. But what we got was fun. Perfect dominated early, Shawn gained control, tried to wear down Mr Perfect who prevented a sleeper hold from being boring, then Perfect makes a comeback, we get a ref bump, a Perfect-Plex, another referee coming down to count 3, Mr Perfect being named champion, the referees arguing, Shawn taking a bump from a shove from a ref ( :lmao ) and Mr Perfect seemingly walking out of the match the new IC champion. Ok lol. Match isn't long so its worth at least sitting through. 

Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs. The Headshrinkers
Milwaukee, WI (Dark Match; Wrestling Challenge Taping) • August 30, 1994

DIESEL :mark:. RIKISHI :mark:. SAMOAN DUDE WHO LOOKS KINDA LIKE RHINO~! DUDE IN THE FRONT ROW MORE EXCITED FOR THIS MATCH THAN ANYONE ELSE AROUND HIM~! The Headshrinkers dominate early, mainly with the old "Samoan heads are too hard to be hurt" schtick which used to be so fun back in the day. Now we just have Roman and the Usos and you wouldn't believe it if they took a shot to the head and no sold it. SUPERKICK on the floor to Rikishi while Big D distracts the referee, and the DUDES WITH ATTITUDE are on top in this match. I HAVE BROWNIES. AND BEER. BROWNIES AND BEER. The brownies and warm and moist, the beer is cold and... fizzy. ALL IS AT IT SHOULD. The Samoans make a comeback and... another ref bump. At least they are over a year apart despite being one after the other on this set . Shawn decks one of the Samoans with the tag titles and he doesn't feel is cos SAMOAN HEAD. He is pissed, grabs the belt and decks Shawn, but the referee wakes up and sees it, and we gots a DQ. Fun little tag that could have easily main evented Raw back in 1994 and would probably be considered a "hidden gem" from the early days of Raw.

Shawn Michaels and Diesel – Face to Face
New York City, NY (WrestleMania XI Public Workout) • March 28, 1995

SID :mark:. Dude keeps cutting his promo while Diesel's music plays. Then Shawn takes the mic too. Fuck knows where Diesel even is. His music keeps playing but he ain't here yet and... oh wait, there he is, getting out of a car :lmao. They all go back and forth with each other until... Luger and Bulldog just randomly appear out of nowhere for absolutely no reason, and that ends the segment. Ok. I'm more hyped for HBK/Diesel than what currently goes on in the world of wrestling .

King of the Ring Qualifying Match
Shawn Michaels vs. King Kong Bundy
RAW • May 22, 1995

BUNDY :mark:. Saw this match not too long ago because I was on a bit of a BUNDY kick, but I'll watch it again. Shawn basically buries Bundy while his music is still playing :lmao. Shawn has been beating the shit out of Bundy before the bell even rang, then extends his hand for a handshake like the cocky little bastard he is :lmao. CRUSH HIM, BUNDY!!! You know that spot with Shawn and Melina where he slides out of the ring and puts his arm around her, and she thinks its Morrison, then turns and sees its Shawn and screams and runs? Well, that spot happens here but with Ted DiBiase! Bit odd though, does DiBiase think Bundy is someone who would stop mid-match to go outside and hug him? :lmao Bundy works the back of Shawn, as he has just returned from being POWERBOMBED by SID after WM. SUPERKICK and HBK picks up the win.

Shawn Michaels & Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. Jacob & Eli Blu
Louisville, KT (Dark Match; RAW Taping) • July 24, 1995

Well this has classic written all over it... at least Bret and HBK are on the same team instead of being against each other. Might not be AS boring. Well, Bret does Bret stuff, Shawn tags in and does Shawn stuff, gets taken out on the floor and beaten down a tad, makes a tag which is about as hot as an Eskimo in snow, and then the match ends with a Sharpshooter. Completely skippable.

Six-Man Elimination Match
Shawn Michaels, Diesel & The Undertaker vs. Sycho Sid, Tatanka & Kama
Evansville, IN (Dark Match; Superstars Taping) • July 25, 1995

UNDERTAKER :mark:. Shame they couldn't put on one of the few singles matches between Taker and Shawn from house shoes in 1997 on this instead. Elimination makes it more fun too. I hope. On paper it does. Thought tbh I don't see any of the babyface team being eliminated lol. Half of the time for this match is taken up on entrances. Yey. Then they spend a couple of minutes deciding who will start the match, only for them to keep tagging in and out because SID doesn't want to face Diesel. Aaaand Tatanka is gone. SID :mark:. He gonna kill Shawn! Or take in Kama. Whatever. Everyone starts brawling and I think Diesel got DQ'd or some bullshit. Taker meanwhile is choking Kama to death on the floor. BIAS. Wait a minute... Diesel is eliminated. Which means we just have the team of Undertaker and HBK... DEAD SEXY IN DA HOUSE!!! :mark: CHOKESLAM TO KAMA~! SID gets involved so no pin, but Taker and Kama end up fighting on the floor and get counted out, leaving HBK and SID to battle! Match ends with some weird running superkick lol. Fun, but not nearly as fun as it could have been if the match had like, time and shit.

Shawn Michaels vs. 1-2-3 Kid
Superstars • April 27, 1996

Well now, this should be good . Likely seen it but as with everything I don't remember. Oh hey, just noticed the date. I turned 8 when this match happened! This is definitely no Bret/Kid match with the champ taking the young guy to the limit and making him look the best he's ever been, but its definitely a fun and good TV match with Kid getting plenty in and looking like something of a threat here and there. Also, that PILEDRIVER :mark:. HBK steals money from Ted DiBiase. What a bastard. SOUPEAKICK~! To celebrate his win, Shawn throws the money into the crowd, and AUSTIN runs in to try and stop him, which leads us to the next match!

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Des Moines, IA (Dark Match; Superstars Taping) • April 30, 1996

Heard a lot of great things about these two together in 1996 on various shoots. Bruce Pritchard talks about how Shawn would absolutely praise Steve and their matches together. Will be interesting to see how a match actually goes, because their KOTR 97 match is blargh and their WM 14 match is pretty shit (yeah yeah both were injured). They do the old "technical" stuff to start with, and its fine. Nothing amazing, but it all looks good at least. Especially liked HBK reversing a rear chin lock attempt by snapmaring Austin. Don't recall seeing that before. I've probably seen it a billion times and just don't remember. Sadly the match does get a bit too rest-holdy, but at least the crowd are actually into the match which helps a lot. HBK's comeback is good though, and damn, he looks like he's being a little more SNUG with his stuff too, and it looks great. Austin takes it all like a champ, and throws a few big rights for good measure here and there too. Chin Music ends the match and yeah, I liked this. One less rest hold and it could have been great.

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna
Kuwait City, Kuwait • May 10 1996

Face Vs Face match. Interesting. Kinda makes me think when I see Yoko missing an elbow drop and getting up so quickly. I doubt I could get off the ground that fast lol, and I'm like 1/3 of his weight. I always wondered what could have been if Yoko hadn't have died, and had lost enough weight for WWF to bring him back at the time. Where would Yoko have fit in 2000/2001? Feuding with Rikishi? Teaming with him? In the Hardcore division? I don't see him getting a big push given the other talent at the time, so none of this "He would have taken Rikishi's spot" stuff that I bet someone out there will be thinking. So yeah. Lowcard guy probably and then released in 01 during the WCW/ECW shit, and then the rest of his time in the indies/tna with maybe the odd return to WWF/E, similar to VISCERA. Either my eyes are going funny or that camera cut was more than just changing camera, but in fact missing out some of the match. I dunno. Probably my eyes going funny. My brain is fucked so it only makes sense that it would fuck up other parts of me. Yoko is slowly beating up Shawn and playing the heel despite the fact he was a babyface at this time in his career. Oh boy, nerve grip. I fucking HATE that hold. It is the very definition of a REST hold. Its pretty impossible for it to be worked. One guy holds it and the other guy just slowly fades and that's that until the comeback. Here comes some SWEET CHIN MUS... SAMOAN DROP~! Yoko follows it up with a leg drop, Shawn moves, recovers, and apparently hits the superkick but the amazing camera work MISSES THE KICK. Pretty dull match.

Shawn Michaels vs. Justin “Hawk” Bradshaw
Superstars • September 29, 1996

Ok, the VADER match is supposed to be next but the order is fucked up lol. BRADSHAW time instead. Hope he beats the piss out of Shawn. Shawn would get mad at Vader when he stiffed Shawn, but Vader would take it because he's a nice guy. Bradshaw on the other hand would beat the piss out of Shawn, listen to Shawn bitch about it then deck him in the face for fun . BOOT TO THE FACE. Bitch about THAT, Shawn. If you fucking dare . For some reason they showed a clip of Live Wire in the corner, with a fan asking if they think the NWO will take them over. Cornette is in the background just laughing. Match is just a fun, somewhat short TV match. Bradshaw beats up Shawn, Shawn makes a comeback, Dutch Mantell gets involved, gets punched in the face, and then Sweet Chin Music ends it all. I'd actually like a length match between the two from this time. I enjoyed what they did in 09, but I think they could have really done something special in 96 with 15 minutes. 

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Vader
State College, PA (Dark Match; Superstars Taping) • September 24, 1996

Righty, here be the VADER match. Doesn't look like its gonna get much time as there is still another match after this, and only 13 minutes left on the DVD. Shame. OMG this is a 2 minute fucking SQUASH MATCH. Vader gets ZERO OFFENCE. Why the fuck did they even put this on the DVD? :lmao

WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Brooklyn Brawler
Madison Square Garden • November 15, 1997

Who the fuck put Brawler in a match event in MSG for the title in 1997? Whose dick did he suck to get that? Oh, wait, nevermind . I think we all know the answer to that one... *cough*Pat Patterson and Vince McMahon*cough*. :lmao for a second there I thought Brawler fell out of the ring trying to go after Shawn on the floor, but because of the camera angle I didn't see HHH come into the ring and try to attack him. So it was HHH getting thrown out of the ring. Not nearly as funny. Fook me this camera man is awful. Its just one dude filming it, and he keeps walking around the ring for better angles, but he doesn't keep the camera pointed at the ring when he moves, instead it just points to the floor :lmao. I hope Vince fired his useless arse. Funny seeing Shawn bump around like he does for someone like Brawler. Member when HHH lost to Brawler in 2000 on either Raw or SD? I member. Member when Chyna nearly murdered Brawler by dropping him on his fucking HEAD as she attempts a wrestling move? I member because it just fucking happened. Holy Jebus. That was NASTY. Fun match though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

hey cal DX are back as you predicted :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal makes a fellatio joke with Brawler. Then keeps it going by actually naming names and not letting the nuance of the gag we all know be the punchline.

He'll get there, one day.

Must be the fizzy beer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Formatting is weird cos stuff. I dunno. I wrote it in Notepad, then C&P'd it into Word to spellcheck, then copied it back into Notepad and this happened.

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Rob Van Dam
RAW • November 25, 2002

The week after HBK won the WHC at the first ever EC at SVS and his opponent is RVD. OMG LOL WTF so many abbreviations. 
Don't remember this match being... that good, and pretty sure it doesn't have a proper finish either. Yey. I guess I can 
see why this match is on here, since it IS HBK's first title defence during his last major title run. HBK with more 
weird tights. At least these aren't the brown ones he had on at SVS, but it seemed he took longer to get some decent 
attire than it did for him to get back into the grove with wrestling after being out for 4 years . MOONSAULT off the 
apron right onto... Shawn's arms. Because Shawn apparently couldn't get into position by standing directly behind RVD 
:lmao. Shawn went to the second rope, yes, second and not top, while RVD was on his back on the mat, and for some reason 
he tried to hit a double axe handle. And OMG WHAT ARE THE ODDS? RVD got his foot up and hit HBK in the face! Silly HBK, 
if only he didn't try to do that particular move. God I fucking hate that spot every time I see it with any wrestler 
that does it. Its utterly stupid and makes no bastarding sense. What does make sense though is having HBK go after RVD's 
legs, since half of his offense involves kicking. Shame RVD keeps on running, jumping and kicking anyway. Useless 
fucker. RVD throws a huge right hook, and I *think* it was for a spot where HBK was gonna duck, because HBK tried to 
duck and still went to grab RVD from behind... but I'm also fairly certain the punch landed anyway :lmao. BACKBREAKER~! 
FIVE STAR FROG SPLASH ON THE BACK OF HBK!!! 1..2..NEW CHAMPION... NO! HHH Pulls RVD out, hits a Pedigree to him on the 
floor then goes after HBK. Match is actually a little better than I remember, but still nothing amazing. Decent TV match 
at best. Might have been a little better with a finish but ah well. HHH needs his TV time dammit!

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho
RAW • July 21, 2003

What is this set called again? Something about UNRELEASED matches? As in, matches we've never had on DVD or Bluray 
before? So what the FUCK is this match on here? I own this on DVD. The DVD I think was exclusive to Europe, so maybe 
this DVD should be "Unreleased in the US". FUCKING WWE LYING TO US. Anyway, the match. I remember liking this a whole 
lot on last watch. Often completely forgotten about, as people tend to only remember their WM match earlier in the year, 
and then their 08 feud (which was filled with bad matches for the most part lol). I guess between not being released on 
DVD worldwide, and being on Raw 03 which most sensible people tend to avoid rewatching, this one fell between the cracks 
(of my arse hahahahahaha) and could be considered a hidden gem. I mean, assuming it holds up. Early part of the match is 
your standard "wwe scientific" stuff as they exchange holds on the mat and try to frustrate each other with headlocks 
etc. Its all fine. Not fair to compare what they do on the mat to a Regal or a Finlay, so I'll just stick with "fine" 
. Every so often Jericho will punch HBK in the face, and HBK will return the favour with... a headlock! Had to laugh 
at HBK though. He shot Jericho into the rope, and Jericho stopped himself... and a few seconds later HBK attempts a leap 
frog as if Jericho was still coming towards him. HE'D ALREADY STOPPED. SHAWN WAS STARING AT HIM. And this results in a 
punch to the face for HBK :lmao. FLAIR. No idea why he's here. I thought he and Shawn had already had their little feud 
and match already. I don't remember. Commentary is hilarious :lmao. You know that episode of The Simpsons with Skinner 
and Willie interrogating Lisa and she keeps laughing because they keep switching between good cop and bad cop? Well Coach 
and Lawler as doing that with the heel commentary and face commentary :lmao. WALLS OF JERICHO~! This match HAS to be 
over!!! Oh wait, commercial break and when we come back HBK is fighting back. LOL. After the Walls, HBK's back is 
bothering him so Jericho smashes it into into the ring post like a smart Canadian. Earl Hebner starts a double count out 
at one point and holy fuck he is about as enthusiastic as me when I have to go to the job centre. Way to put in some 
effort, Earl! Massive SOUPAKICK misses, and while Earl is recovering from a near heart attack after almost getting 
kicked in the face, Jericho kicks HBK right in the balls! Shades of the end of their WM match! SOUPAKICK into a steel 
chair into the face of Jericho! Both men are down! Earl putting some effort into this double count! EARL AND FLAIR GOING 
AT IT :mark:. Here comes Orton! RKO on the steel chair!!! Flair gets sent to the back and tries to attack a camera man 
on his way and its hilarious. SHAWN KICKS OUT~! He had like a full minute to recover though. WALLS OF JERICHO~! Shawn 
tries to power out, but Jericho is right in the corner and uses his head on the turnbuckle to push himself back fully 
into the hold!!! HBK TAPS OUT!!! This match is still awesome and definitely a "hidden gem". Good job WWE for putting 
this on here... even if its not previously unreleased .

Shawn Michaels vs. Christian
RAW • October 4, 2004

CHRISTIAN! CHRISTIAN! AT LAST, YOU'RE ON, YOUR OWN! Yeah yeah, he isn't using that theme song here, but dammit I don't 
care. Actually I think it IS the same theme, just without the bit at the start. I'M CAPTAIN CHARISMA, WHAT DO YOU THINK 
ABOUT THAT?!?! Tomko saves Christian from a Superkick, only for HBK to give Christian a neckbreaker on the floor and 
then some chin music to Tomko for spoiling his fun! Sadly this seems like a very "safe" TV match with nothing out of the 
ordinary going on. Bit surprising given that its taking place in MSG, and you'd maybe expect someone like HBK and 
Christian to really try and steal the show. UNPRETTIER~! I guess HBK kicking out of that is the biggest moment they 
could be bothered to put together for this match . SUPER BACK DROP~! ELBOW DROP~! SEIZURE~! SUPERKICK~! And this one 
is done. Mega disappointed with it .

Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair
RAW • February 7, 2005

Raw is live from Japan! Only thing I remember from this particular show is Benoit Vs Jericho in a submissions match. At 
least... I think that took place on this show . CHOPS~! Even HBK's chops look quite good here. Maybe its the flabby 
flair skin that makes them look more brutal than usual? BACKDROP ON THE FLOOR~! Flair is crazy. Both men in this match 
have suffered from broken backs. Bit of trivia for ya. That you likely already knew. If you didn't, then what the fuck 
is wrong with you? This is only being posted on 2 wrestling forums, and you should know this shit if you are on a damn 
wrestling forum. Flair keeps going after the knee of HBK, but even after a Figure Four he still can't beat the HBKid. 
HBK does his usual back selling, only this time with his knee aka he barely bothers to sell it unless he's just nipped 
up :lmao. Rated R SOUPAKICK and down goes Flair. Fun enough match. Nothing more.

Shawn Michaels & Batista vs. Triple H & Edge
Birmingham, AL (Dark Match; RAW Taping) • March 21, 2005

Finally, a dark match! While all the other matches have been unreleased on DVD sets before (except the Jericho match), 
being TV matches still means we've had easy access to them for years, long before even the Network started. A dark match 
on the other hand is something most people won't have seen, and even those of us who have a collection of handheld shows 
on DVD or whatever, the quality has never been this good. Match is *****. Seriously. HHH hands the referee his title so 
the match can get started, but Batista steals it and poses to the crowd while HHH has an aneurysm or something and has 
to be held back by the referee and its fucking hilarious. Then Batista starts snuggling with the title and kissing it 
:lmao. HBK and HHH are gonna start the match off but the fans are too busy chanting for BATISTA so HBK tags him in after 
about a minute of teasing . HHH was desperately trying to convince HBK to stay in the match too, which was funny. Then 
when Batista comes in he tags out Edge and tells him he isn't warmed up yet and begins to stretch on the outside :lmao. 
HBK calls HHH a chicken and we get a chicken chant. HHH then gets pissed off and pushes Earl Hebner, who pushes him 
back. HHH chases after him but Earl hides behind Batista and of course HHH backs down. THE MATCH HASN'T PROPERLY STARTED 
YET. EARL AND HHH ARE THE ONLY ONES TO GET PHYSICAL :lmao. Dark matches and house show matches are so much fun when they 
can do all this shit. HBK comes back in the ring to once again call HHH a chicken, so HHH starts screaming to everyone 
that he isn't a chicken... except he's doing a chicken impression every time he says chicken and its making him look 
like a chicken :lmao. Officially a ****** match now. Screw you Big Davey Meltz, this is the first 6 star match! We 
finally get into the match, with typical tag shizzle that I like. Heels keep HBK away from Batista and cheat and shit, 
then HHH jumps off the ropes and lands head first into a boot from Shawn, and he spends about a full minute selling 
being out of it as the referee wafts him and asks him if he's ok. HHH says yes, takes a step forward then collapses 
:lmao. BATISTA TIME :mark:. And he's in there with HHH! Edge joins in for shits and giggles and gets mauled too . 
SPINEBUSTER TO HHH~! SOUPAKICK TO EDGE~! THUMBS DOWN TO HHH WHICH IS HISTORICALLY INACCURATE FOR WHAT HE'S GOING FOR~! 
BATISTA BOMB~! BATISTA BEATS THE CHAMP BEFORE WM~! Whole DVD might be worth it for this match alone. Tremendous fun. 

Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle
RAW • January 16, 2006

We move from tremendous fun to this pile of shite. Been a few years since I watched it, but I doubt my opinion of it has 
changed dramatically. Fuck me, this is the COMPLETE version of the match too. The match started during a fucking 
COMMERCIAL BREAK when it originally aired, but here we have that footage too. Because I'm sure more time is the key to 
making this match great... Fuck it. Not watching. Read what I wrote about it previously instead. "Angle got beat last 
week in the tag match thanks to Shawn, then he went to SD and became WHC. LOL. Oh, and if HBK loses, he's fired. Raw 
might have the more "unpredictable" feeling being live, but at least SD can edit shit so matches don't start during a 
commercial fucking break. Only on the third Raw of the year and its already happened like, 3 times lol. Typical back and 
forth stuff that you would expect based on their previous matches, until Divari gets involved and causes HBK to fall out 
of the ring. He gets superkicked for his troubles, but Angle runs up behind HBK and hits the Angle Slam (his finisher 
btw) on THE FLOOR. Oh joy, commercial break... and the match is still going because a finisher on the floor isn't 
enough. Speaking of finishers not being enough... an Angle Slam from the fucking ropes doesn't even end it. Only one 
thing to do now, random Ankle Lock! And yep, there it is lol! HBK escapes a few attempts, but Angle finally locks it in 
as Divari looks on and laughs... only to get slapped in the face. Poor guy keeps getting his face attacked, so he runs 
in with a chair, accidentally hits Angle with it allowing Michaels to get the win. Yeah, didn't like this at all. Angle 
is as dumb as ever and honestly HBK doesn't really bring... anything to the match to try and save it either, other than 
a couple of shots to Divari just for the hell of it."

Texas Tornado Match
D-Generation X vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch vs. Charlie Haas & Viscera vs. The Highlanders
RAW • October 2, 2006

ARE YOU READY? READY FOR DX TO BURY THE TAG DIVISION!!! YEY! DX absolutely DOMINATE EVERYONE and win within a few 
minutes. Member when HBK's superkick was nothing more than a lead-in to the Pedigree, so the guy getting kicked in the 
face wouldn't even fall down? I member. And it was fucking stupid.

WWE World Tag Team Championship Match
Shawn Michaels & John Cena vs. Rated RKO
Bakersfield, CA (Dark Match; RAW Taping) • February 19, 2007

Woo, another dark match. PLEASE BE FUN, PLEASE BE FUN, PLEASE BE FUN. Match starts with Orton half dead already and Edge 
being hurt as well lol. HBK almost gets a 3 count immediately. Aaaand then Orton pops up and hits an RKO so we're on 
even footing now! Looks like they are going for a real match instead of having fun . Sweet Chin Music relegated to the 
lead-in into an F-U here too. Not much to see here. Fairly short and... nothing to it.

Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Batista vs. Chris Jericho
Atlanta, GA (Dark Match; RAW Taping) • November 17, 2008

Now THIS is a pretty darn interesting match on paper! Jericho starts off the match by slapping his two opponents. Guess 
he ain't as smart as he pretends to be . He gets beaten up before escaping a Batista Bomb attempt. HBK and Batista are 
left along in the ring and HBK goes to chop Batista but he gets out of the way just in time and the two play up how HBK 
almost turned on Batista and they exchange funny looks lol. Batista seems to be king of having fun in dark matches. They 
go at it, then Jericho shows up to take advantage of them fighting each other, locks in the WALLS OF JERICHO only to be 
SUPERKICKED in the face and he's out of the match again, leaving HBK and Batista to fight it out. Aaand then he shows up 
only a minute later, hits a CODE BREAKER on Batista OUTTA NOWHERE and wins. Well that was a bit disappointing. Was 
hoping it would go longer.

Shawn Michaels & The Undertaker vs. JBL & Vladimir Kozlov
RAW • March 16, 2009

DEAD SEXY Vs Jibble & Vlad! I remember this time period, with HBK, JBL and Vladdy all fighting to be the one to face 
Undertaker at WM. I was so damn sure WWE weren't going to give us HBK/Taker. I have never been so glad to be wrong. We 
did get Taker/Vlad a couple of times but thankfully they were TV matches. Vlad even has a CLEAN PINFALL VICTORY over the 
Dead Man. Crazy. Especially with how utterly GREEN he was. Personally I think he would have been better starting his WWE 
TV career on ECW rather than being on SD first and even getting title shots during his first year, and THEN going to ECW 
later in 2009. Then again I don't think it would have mattered since he still would have been stuck with the comedy 
gimmick and then released. But he had a role in John Wick 2 so he's doing better than most people . Oh hey, a match is 
happening. Fun spot early on with HBK tuning up the band, then he gets distracted by Vlad and turns around into some 
chin music from JBL who boots him right in the fucking face. JBL's big boot was always awesome. And he always took the 
best boot from Undertaker too. Undertaker gets a hot tag, beats everyone up, is about to Chokeslam JBL only for Shawn to 
make the tag, hit the Superkick and steal the win! Undertaker is fucking PISSED! He chases HBK up the ramp, and gets a 
Superkick! I did enjoy the build to their WM match with HBK always seeming to avoid Undertaker's assault, but I do still 
think HBK superkicking Undertaker every week would have been better. Yeah, Shawn kicked him a couple of times, but I 
think Taker failing to get his hands on Shawn week after week and constantly getting kicked in the face would have been 
great, and would have really put over the first Superkick in their match as well, especially when Undertaker kicked out. 
Anyways, match was ok. Decent enough end to the DVD set.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Can we just talk about anything and everything in here now? As in, all companies and countries and whatnot? Not like it's gonna interrupt any discussion. :lauren I'm watching 2000 stuff again and I don't wanna spam the last match watched thread with 12 posts in a row.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Picked up the 2004 DVD boxset for £15. From what I remember it was pretty terrible, but I'll see.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Doing it anyway. Poo.

Emilio Charles Jr./Lizmark/Tinieblas Jr. v. Bestia Salvaje/Shocker/Scorpio Jr. (CMLL 1/10/00)
Everyone seemed to be working pretty hard to keep the action coming without much of a break (other than the crowd taunting). Lizmark was 49 here and I guess he's one of THOSE "you're this mobile still, huh?" luchadores. I need to deep-dive on that guy. The tecnico comeback on the first fall was actually more violent than the rudo beat down; they were chucking the rudos into the ring posts and Lizmark even pulled Salvaje down onto the concrete. Felt kind of weird that they even did that in the first fall instead of leaving it for the second but hey I'm ok with it. Enjoyable match that I might have given like ****1/4 to if I watched it when I was new to lucha. As of now I thought it was perfectly all right. Maybe especially considering I haven't watched a match like this in a fairly long time.

Chris Benoit/Sid Vicious v. Kevin Nash/Jeff Jarrett (Thunder 1/12/00)
Lemme type this all out so I can understand, bear with me. Sooooooo Benoit and Sid are on the same team despite their match at Souled Out being 4 days away because Jarrett was supposed to be Benoit's opponent (for the US title) in some three stages of hell-style thing but he got injured......2 days earlier than this match. With a concussion. And he's in the ring. 2 days later. Y'know your watching something else when Nash isn't even close to the person you're most worried about injuring themselves. Sid was supposed to face Bret Hart at Souled Out for the WCW championship but Hart was done by then because of the Goldberg kick a couple weeks ago. OKKKKK so it turns out this is what lead to that Billy Kidman/Dean Malenko where Malenko forgot he was in ring-out rules and lost the match in 2m 30s. :lmao Kidman had a "Bunkhouse Brawl" with Perry Saturn though which hey, sounds neat.
The match. Had some ok stuff like the Jarrett/Benoit exchanges, and I bought that all four guys gave a shit about their feuds. Benoit really has a way to do stuff like Irish whips and make it come off more hateful in intent than most would. I think there's a difference between Benoit doing basic moves and Benoit doing basic moves in a hate feud, is what I'm sort of trying to get at. Sid seemed like he was trying and I don't know if I would have guessed that from 2000 WCW. I cringed like mad when Jarrett went over the ropes at the start, I couldn't help but picture his brain knocking around his skull. Nash hit this one boot that - if Sid wasn't there to connect with - there is no way he wouldn't have fallen over from. This wasn't good but I can't complain about it. Shrug.

HHH/X-Pac v. The Rock/The Big Show (SmackDown 1/13/00)
Aw hell yeah I love a hot Attitude Era tag I've never seen. I'm in a weird spot with HHH's 2000 where I'm firmly planted on the "it's very very overrated" side but I also think people too often ignore his good tv output when talking about it. He was good here! I think his bumping is the best thing he does and it's a lot of fun seeing for him bump for someone as large as the Big Show and as over as the Rock. Rock and Show aren't getting along and I liked how they integrated it into the match without letting it swallow it up (at least until the end I guess). This is nothing spectacular but still non-stop fun and I will always think favourably of this kind of thing.

Atlantis/***** Casas/Mr. Niebla v. Dr. Wagner Jr./Villano III/Pierroth Jr. (CMLL 1/14/00)
Never seen a single match that builds up to the legendary Atlantis/Villano apuestas and based on this I may have made several mistakes. Villano and crew tear off Atlantis' mask early while punching him in the face and Villano mocks Atlantis by shining his boots with the mask and chucking it away so a ref has to fetch it later. Atlantis still getting beat on and sent to the outside while covering his face the whole time was something else. Once he gets the mask back he clobbers all three rudos (who have Casas and Niebla tied up) and then goes completely ham on Villano. It's pretty rare seeing Atlantis act completely unrelenting like he seriously wants to injure someone but I now wish we got it more often. He came off frigging furious. Throw in Casas getting a little time act like Casas and you could be forgiven for thinking they were the rudo team out of context. The match didn't slow down very much from the third fall starting and there was just hostility everywhere. No bones about interrupting pins, coming in illegally, double-teaming. Nobody gave a damn and this match ruled. Shout out to Pierroth taking chops "like a man" or something until asking for one only for Casas to dropkick him right there in the chest.

Olimpico/Antifaz del Norte/tarzan Boy v. El Satanico/Ultimo Guerrero/Rey Bucanero (CMLL 1/14/00)
Two hateful awesome trios matches on the same show. Guerrero and Bucanero have never been favourites of mine but surprise surprise, pair them with Satanico and I'm all in on dickhead trio greatness. Bucanero holding Tarzan Boy by the hair while he still tries to swing at a cautious but cocky Satanico but was completely great. Los Infernales work pretty tremendously as a team, I really get the impression any opponent who stands near doesn't have a chance of getting anywhere. They're fans of doing move-after-move-after-move and not giving a breath to who they're mauling. Case in point when Tarzan Boy got in the ring and thought he could do a whole "bring it!" thing to Guerrero and Satanico right before Bucanero launches at him with a dropkick from the side. Stoopid Tarzan man, pay attention. Satanico is unfathomable at making the mundane look incredible. He yanked Tarzan's hair from outside (pulling Tarzan out to the floor in the process) and you could see his muscles tensing up and his face contorting. I mean I imagine that would have actually just hurt Tarzan too but it looked worse than it was, I'm sure. I was really surprised by how long los Infernales had the match for. Wasn't super impressed with the beginning of the tecnico comeback (Guerrero and Bucanero just, like, stood there so Satanico could get dived on) but the meat of it was a lot of fun. Tarzan kicking Satanico while prone on the floor was awesome and of course Satanico sells it excellently because Satanico. Sometimes I really begin to wonder if the only reason I don't call him the #1 all time best is because I've never compiled a list of footage of his to watch a big heap. And we'd be missing an unfortunately large amount.

Super Crazy v. Little Guido (ECW on TNN 1/14/00)
I value this kind of thing so much. Even when it sucks (this did not suck) I get a great look at two wrestlers involved doing their thing for 5 or so minutes (damn commercial break). This kind of match where I get to see two wrestlers got on the offensive, sell short-term, sell long-term, one plays face, one plays heel, one deals with manager, one deals with audience is monstrously important to how I judge a wrestler. These two here packed so much into such a fast-paced match, and for the most part I think they did a great job of not really overdoing it. E.g. I loved when Guido got his knees up for the split-legged moonsault but was still suffering from the previous moonsault. The match not ending after the DDT on the chair, or at least the Big Sal spot right after it, was some dumb shit but whatever I suppose, match had like two more spots to go. Guido seriously went in on the DDT. You get a perfect camera angle of his head landing and I grimaced a little at it. 

Jerry Lynn v. Yoshihiro Tajiri (ECW on TNN 1/14/00)
I'm so low on Jerry Lynn I find it impossible to get excited for him even against motherfucking Tajiri. My bad because this was basically Tajiri being Tajiri for 8 minutes. The man is so captivating at his best just laying a guy out and then mocking him for it. Taking pleasure in every knife-edge chop and moment that he gets to look toward the audience. Lynn's style works a hell of a lot better as this kind of way of attempting to get out of trouble than it does a back-and-forth and if I have to watch him against anybody, I want it to be Tajiri.

The Rock v. X-Pac/The New Age Outlaws (Raw 1/3/00)
YEP this was worth my time. Some of it was awkward because DX just stood there waiting to get punched in the face but in general I was surprised by how naturally Rock got his shots in between all the pummelling. I guess it's made easier by DX being a gagle of over-confident jackasses who think they have it in the bag and treat life as all fun and games until getting hit in the jaw. But no, I dug the group work enough. X-Pac destroying Rock with a flurry of stomps and strikes near the barricade was pretty awesome. I didn't see the surprise run in coming at all for some reason and I internally marked. Add another to the Early 2000 WWF TV Good Shit pile.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Can we just talk about anything and everything in here now? As in, all companies and countries and whatnot? Not like it's gonna interrupt any discussion. :lauren I'm watching 2000 stuff again and I don't wanna spam the last match watched thread with 12 posts in a row.


I would have just said yes, so it's all good. I've talked about plenty of other stuff in here prior, so it was always kind of a given.


----------



## komatsu_na (Dec 14, 2017)

Yeah1993 said:


> Can we just talk about anything and everything in here now? As in, all companies and countries and whatnot? Not like it's gonna interrupt any discussion. :lauren I'm watching 2000 stuff again and I don't wanna spam the last match watched thread with 12 posts in a row.


>last match watched thread 
Where can I find this thread?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

sengen777 said:


> >last match watched thread
> Where can I find this thread?


It's in a section only members with premium accounts can access, unfortunately. I actually forgot until I went to link it here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This was recently put on the Network. Put it on YT (if it stays up)

Greg Valentine vs Roddy Piper (Mid Atlantic) (07.09.1983)


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

So I just watched JBL vs Eddie Guerrero Judgement Day 2004. Never seen it before today EVER (Didn't get the video as a kid so I never saw it) but boy am I glad that I did. It's a bloody fight with fantastic brawling, great wrestling by JBL and Eddie.That chair shot by JBL was sickening. I'm not sure if Eddie's selling was just that damn good or his concussion face was legit. Either way, it added so much. The match was a great brawl that felt like a damn fight. A true WWE CLASSIC imo. I gave it the full five, I loved it that much. 

:done


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That match :sodone


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jake Roberts vs Brett Wayne(Sawyer) (Atlanta 10.23.1983)*






Not watched it yet, but was recently added to the wwe network and is getting some praise, esp Jake.

@Emperor Palpatine ; and anyone else


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Asking as someone who doesn't watch the shows on the regular, but keeps up with the goings-on:

During Neville's reign as "King of the Cruiserweights," I heard him regularly referred to as the best-booked champion in WWE, even though he didn't seem to be having standout matches (which are what I keep an eye out for). What was that about? Anything I should try to go back and check out?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:dead2

:mj2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Been trying my damnedest to catch up on 2018 wrestling, here's WWE stuff I've watched.

Moustache Mountain v. Roderick Strong/Kyle O’Reilly (Takeover Brooklyn IV 8/18/18) – Some early brawling (O’Reilly even sells getting his head thrown into the apron awesome, btw, astonished how much I like this guy now) before UE go the previous match’s route and head for Seven’s leg. Most of the rest isn’t exactly new material (maybe even for these teams) but it’s just an undeniably fun, energetic, heated batch of awesome. You could argue it was just a less good version of the 7/11 tag but that still smokes most of the wrestling in the year. Basically if I rewatch the 7/11 match down the road somewhere there is zero reason for me not to also watch this right after it. At least the finish was better in this one.

Roman Reigns v. Finn Balor (Raw 8/20/18) – Is this an actually, legitimately good Roman Reigns match in Anno Domini 2018? With both wrestlers putting in a good showing and having stand outs moments (yay @ Reigns countering the enzuguiri fwiw that ruled)? It’s not very often that WWE title matches have that actual “edge of your seat” quality to them, I feel like I should check to see if I got the date wrong and this is from last year. Well if it is, it’s only their 2nd best match of 2017 but still good, good stuff. 

Buddy Murphy/Tony Nese v. Gran Metalik/Lince Dorado (205 Live 8/21/18) – I dunno I truthfully can’t say I cared about what was going on in this. Murphy’s entrance music sounds like an accident. 

Pete Dunne v. Zack Gibson (NXT 8/22/18) – This is a cool match up because Dunne is probably the bigger asshole but also more likeable and popular so Gibson steers straight into the skid and acts smug when he has Dunne where he wants him. Begging for mercy in addition to that. I remember much preferring their previous match (s’on my list), though this is worthwhile too. Dunne getting a rope break by biting on the rope was holy shit. 

Buddy Murphy v. Kalisto (205 Live 8/28/18) – Another good Murphy match this year. Do all 205 main events get this much time? I’m actually in support of it, especially when it feels like the two guys get to go at it more or less unfiltered and don’t even let the outside interference get in the way of the action. Murphy really does have such a fun way of slinging himself while bumping. Kalisto took quite the splash on announce table from the apron when Murphy pushed him. Lead to a really good count-out tease. Twice!

Meiko Satomura v. Killer Kelly (Mae Young Classic Round 1, 9/6/18) – Just an awesome quick showcase for Satomura, with the WWE crowd getting to see her slap on holds, throw some strikes, do the cartwheel double knee-drop. This match wasn’t really about Kelly but for someone who was probably just booked to lose to somebody else more well-known, I thought she managed to still impress. Very much looking forward to seeing Satomura in this tourney.

Pete Dunne v. Ricochet (NXT 9/19/18) – I’m definitely not gonna say I’m “over” Pete Dunne, but similarly to Bate I find it hard to get as excited seeing him as I used to. I think maybe it’s because I can feel like I can predict how the match more or less will go. He’ll bend arm and fingers to start with and maybe work over a limb and then go back-and-forth while delivering forearm smashes and enzuigiris. I really don’t want to say this match wasn’t worth a shit but maybe I need to watch it years in the future when I’m not burned out on the kind of thing is brings to the table. I mean even with Dunne’s more grounded style it’s still pretty “indy-ish” which I’ve never favoured in the first place. 

Tommaso Ciampa v. Otis Dozovic (NXT 9/26/18) – OTIS THE SOUP CAN MAN. Now this is more my speed. Chunky BEEF man taking it to shithead heel champion who’s been running amok for a year. OTIS does a lot of what you want someone who looks like him to do; throw clubs, do running corner splashes, drops thick elbows, stumble after getting hit with strikes, and having no fear going head-first on DDTs. He looked way better in kayfabe coming out of this getting pinned than most people do in massive victory. Maybe WWE can learn something from that. This was a lot of fun.

Meiko Satomura v. Mercedes Martinez (Mae Young Classic Round 2, 10/3/18) – Hard fought, scrappy, stiff, dramatic, slow-building with nothing holding it back. I’m not familiar with Martinez at all really but I came out of this pretty curious, she’s pretty great at on the sell when getting curved and torqued. Satomura here did some kind of joshi-style ‘scream to fight through pain” thing and did it better than I can ever remember seeing before. Not that it lasted long anyway as these two constantly had an answer for each other. Back-and-forth wrestling at some of its best and one of my top ten of the year, surely.

Io Shirai v. Rhea Ripley (Mae Young Classic Semifinals 10/24/18) – Ripley’s also much more muscular than most women in wrestling and the size difference between her and Shirai made it immediately interesting to me. Plus Ripley playing the asshole and getting dem boos definitely helped. And hell, I thought this absolutely delivered. Ripley was vicious in locking Shirai down, almost vicious enough that I’d buy Shirai’s mid-giving-birth-level screaming as fitting. Shirai’s fight back starting with a massive barrage of elbows was great stuff, and I dug how she took risks to get large rewards – that is bringing Ripley down to her level of weariness. Based on this I think these two could have WWE’s MOTY in future. My watchlist is too big to want to catch everything and anything so I’m sticking to the more interesting stuff and won’t get to see Shirai or Satomura in all of their shorter matches of the tourney. Maybe if I plow through enough of this before February-ish because I’d like to see that stuff.

Meiko Satomura v. Toni Storm (Mae Young Classic Semifinals 10/24/18) – Thought this was good but by the time they were in the ending stretch I was wondering how they got there from Storm putting a chinlock on. Satomura impressing once again, covering as much area as she can on Storm, acting cautious when getting some distance, rolling away from a kick out and bumping hard. I’m gonna need to rub some shit off of my watchlist to fit more of her on there because I’ve been really into her these three matches. Like I was gonna enjoy that fifty minute WarGames match with Adam Cole anyway.

Io Shirai v. Toni Storm (Evolution 10/28/18, Mae Young Classic finals) – Is Storm supposed to be good? She looked surprisingly amateur during some of this. She did that cartwheel-rolly-flip armbar reversal thingy and I know that takes some very solid athleticism to pull off but if you can’t pull it off…don’t try until you can, maybe. Shirai takes a big German bump on the apron but very quickly fights back with elbows (o’course) because I dunno, this only got ten minutes and it was nearfall time. This was all right. Hardly felt like the end to a tourney though.

Kairi Sane v. Shayna Baszler (Evolution 10/28/18) – Baszler chucking Sane into the steps and causing an arm injury sort of was, and wasn’t, the ‘real start’ the whole match. It lead to Sane selling the arm and having to scrape by, but the end the match just shifted elsewhere and Baszler was the one getting tossed about. There was a completely out-of-place bit early on where Sane starts fighting back (still having the bum arm) in an awful, awful trade-off where none of the strikes even looked any good. Including Baszler’s, who’s right there with Pete Dunne and Zack Sabre Jr. at making their opponent’s bent limb look disgustingly legit. I wouldn’t have minded it SO much if it wasn’t literally how Sane evened things up. Baszler just took it like an imbecile and Sane got away with being fought back against. Sane kind of spent an annoying amount of the match not fighting from below after that. She typically continued to sell the arm but it started to feel like Baszler was the one who needed hope spots to stay in it, which I thought was unconvincing, and probably still would have even without Sane having an injured limb. Her friend’s even cost Sane the match. I still did quite like it. I swear these two have a MOTYC in them (I half-loved-half meh’d their Takeover match in August too), someone just needs to lay out the match better.

Charlotte Flair v. Becky Lynch (Evolution 10/28/18) – I fucking hate what WWE’s done to hate matches. Every single one of them has to be 30 minutes long and have epic laying around and that shit. Obviously throw in bunches of spots with chairs and tables. I don’t even know what I’d call this quality-wise, I’m just so sick of seeing this type of thing that even a good one flies into one hole in my head and out the other. It just feels so manufactured. 

Ronda Rousey v. Nikki Bella (Evolution 10/28/18) – Rousey is way too good at taking shots into the ring post and apron for her experience. She seems to have a naturally, like, floppy body that she can easily toss around and make it come off like it was the opponent’s force doing it. It’s the ring post shots that obviously lead to Rousey in peril. I didn’t think Bella was very interesting on top; I would have liked it way more had they had the other Bella interfere on level with Sherri in Savage v. Warrior. I thought the match was a little long for what they were going for, as well. Pretty sure Rousey had less time selling against Nia Jax. Still a good time though, and the crowd got pretty wild by the end of it. It feels so much easier to care about the women in WWE over the men.

Shayna Baszler v. Kairi Sane (Takeover WarGames 11/17/18) – Why make a 2/3 falls match when you’re only going to give them 11 minutes? First fall was pretty neat, to be fair. Sane wises up and rushes Baszler before a ref distraction and interference from Baszler’s buddies. Sane’s selling in the second fall was pretty great, I liked the squealing in her voice when Baszler had her neck bent over. I guess Baszler’s strikes are just not good in general? She and Sane went at it fast-paced and it was like something you’d expect from SpongeBob. I liked the DDT on the apron as Sane’s trump card but her dodging all the buddies was a bit much. Third fall was pretty standard high-drama double exhaustion stuff. The run in from women looking to help Sane take care of Baszler’s goons was amusing. The finish was….not the kind of thing I like. That “HHH reverses the Swanton” thing. Despite the problems these two manage to be one of my favourite match ups of the year, I think. Mauro references Yogi Bear.

Aleister Black v. Johnny Gargano (Takeover WarGames 11/17/18) – I haven’t really paid much attention to this Gargano heel (?) turn, not sure of the point especially when the Ciampa feud isn’t done with yet. This was a lot of action and not exactly the type of action I like. More the 21st Century indy ‘classic’ action, plus throw in some forced emotion shit. I’ll take this a thousand times over your Davey Richards stand-outs, but having to point that out is probably an indication of what this did for me. This is the kind of match the “fight forever” chant was made for.

Tommaso Ciampa v. Velveteen Dream (Takeover WarGames 11/17/18) – WELL looks like I finally have a solidified answer for MOTY. I can’t remember one thing in the match that didn’t have something at least a little interesting going on, from the character work in the opening stages to the HEAT near the end. They even took the time to make the mundane awesome like when Ciampa ground Dream’s face and yelled “GO TO SLEEP” during the headlock. Or the collar-and-elbow where Ciampa leaned back over the ropes at the beginning. Or Ciampa untying his boot to sell how fucked his leg is. Or the ref catching Ciampa pulling the tights and a mark-out moment being made out of it. Or Ciampa making sure to pick his precious title up from the floor and rest it on the announce table. Dream’s carny tribute act was maybe a little too cutesy and he had some eyebrow-raising choices to fight back with like ref distractions, and that I think is what I have as far as negatives go? This is everything that big matches on the main roster usually aren’t (throw NJPW in there too for some of it, fuck ‘em). Two unique personalities bouncing off of each other, moments of the wrestlers actually acknowledging the audience, heel who actually gets a vitriolic response, opening struggles that actually feel like struggles and not just something to do before you start running around (and the crowd seemed to legitimately give a fuck about the collar-and-elbows and such), cut off moves that involved finding actual openings – so more than just a dickweed standing up and throwing elbows while the other guy takes it like a half-brained twat, and a natural build to the nearfall run instead of it just happening because we’re a certain amount of minutes into the match. If the future is Velventeen Dream and Tommaso Ciampa then the future has at least two bright sparks shining through, even if we wind up with a whale-sized turd. Thank you so much for existing. Shout out to when Mauro said “maybe this is what the sick SOB (Ciampa, obviously) deserves” with Ciampa right there next to him. I reacted like “he’s right there!” and then FUCKING marked when Ciampa threw a coffee cup at him and berated him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upload this match that was recently a part of the WWE Hidden Gem set. Don't think it's been out theer before and it wasn't a part of the Houston NWA On Demand Libary:

_Mid South Wrestling 02/11/1983 – The Common Man’s Best Friend_

*Dusty Rhodes & Junkyard Dog vs Ted DiBiase and Matt Borne (Houston 02.11.1982)*





 @Emperor Palpatine ;


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Pete Dunne v. Ricochet (NXT 9/19/18) – I’m definitely not gonna say I’m “over” Pete Dunne, but similarly to Bate I find it hard to get as excited seeing him as I used to. I think maybe it’s because I can feel like I can predict how the match more or less will go. He’ll bend arm and fingers to start with and maybe work over a limb and then go back-and-forth while delivering forearm smashes and enzuigiris. I really don’t want to say this match wasn’t worth a shit but maybe I need to watch it years in the future when I’m not burned out on the kind of thing is brings to the table. I mean even with Dunne’s more grounded style it’s still pretty “indy-ish” which I’ve never favoured in the first place.


Should I be surprised that you worded this exactly how I would have if I could? But basically that went 100% how I figured (even the cop out finish) and I just didn't care. They would throw in Adam Cole into the next match to basically say "NOW YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT" and I still didn't. Unsure if you'd even watch that, but they recycled the Cole superkicks Ricochet mid-moonsault spot already and that really annoyed me.



Yeah1993 said:


> Tommaso Ciampa v. Otis Dozovic (NXT 9/26/18) – OTIS THE SOUP CAN MAN. Now this is more my speed. Chunky BEEF man taking it to shithead heel champion who’s been running amok for a year. OTIS does a lot of what you want someone who looks like him to do; throw clubs, do running corner splashes, drops thick elbows, stumble after getting hit with strikes, and having no fear going head-first on DDTs. He looked way better in kayfabe coming out of this getting pinned than most people do in massive victory. Maybe WWE can learn something from that. This was a lot of fun.


This was a given, but glad to read all of this anyways. SOUP CAN MAN. I legitimately knew the moment I saw Otis I had to love him. You don't look like that and not deliver. And he just oozes round guy babyface, too. Ciampa having this and the Dream match in such a short span is...well, it's fantastic and I guess I don't have to wax poetic about the subject. More of this stuff and less like the ^ match for NXT is ideal. It's not going to happen, and I shouldn't be bothered since there's apparently room for both, but yeah, this is the real kind of magic in wrestling.

Toni Storm is absolute pond scum, btw.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

So I've been watching all the PPV's of 2003 with the occasional TV match and I've gotten to Vengeance. What a show. :done 

_WWE United States Title Tournament Final Match - Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero_
Fantastic opener. Two of my all time favourite wrestlers going one on one. Never seen this match before which stuns me but I’m glad because I went into this not know what to expect. Some great grappling in the ary goings with the two battling over a knuckle lock for around 5 minutes. Eddie controlled most of it and did a great job at releasing off this energy to make you root against him. It’s uncanny. The two get more physical with more chops, punches and suplexes. A nice escalation throughout the match until the end which had some great character, a unintentional comedy. It was slightly overbooked to protect Benoit but I don’t mind it overall. Great match. ****1/4

_Billy Gunn (w/Torrie Wilson) vs. Jamie Noble_
Poor Jamie Noble being sucked into this match with Billy Gunn. This didn’t last long at all. **

_APA Invitational Bar Room Brawl Match_
I have no clue what to say about this. NOT RATED

_WWE Tag Team Title Match - The World's Greatest Tag Team (Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin) (c) vs. Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio_
Amazing match. This was nutty as well. You got Mysterio and Kidman and flying around the ring, showing off their high flying ability. WGTT showing off their great chemistry as a tag team. So underrated. Then we had Kidman selling and being the FIP for around 10 minutes then the finishing stretch happened which was pure nuts with some fantastic wrestling, awesome near falls and a hot crowd. Fantastic tag match. ****1/2

_No Count Out Cat Fight - Sable vs. Stephanie McMahon_
Um, I’m not sure what I expect going in. It wasn’t bad, it was basically quite fun. I think I legit liked this. **1/2

_John Cena vs. The Undertaker_
This was really good. It wasn’t as technical as Benoit/Eddie or as nutty as the tag title match but it was a good back and forth slug fest. Cena was great here, showing spurts of aggression which allowed him to get the advantage but took an ass whipping like a champ. Taker was awesome as the dominating figure of the match. ***3/4

_Vince McMahon vs. Zach Gowen_
This actually delivered. Vince’s work on Zach’s leg was really good. He was very viscous with it and he was a good foil for Zach. It did go too long though. Gowen was awesome. Big credit for him. ***1/4 

_WWE Heavyweight Title No Disqualification Triple Threat Match - Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show_
I really liked this match. The dynamic is great. You got Brock and Angle, two friends, two rivals going at each other but you got to deal with The Big Show so they have to team up against him. One aspect of the match I liked was the use of weapons. The match is No DQ so why not. They didn’t stick to “I’m a good guy so I won’t use it even if I can” story and it added a lot. Everything was great in this match, the story, the interactions, everything. ****1/4

Awesome PPV. So much better than the last three PPV's which weren't very good. 9/10


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SHOULD HAVE WATCHED BY NOW AND YET NEVER DID, PART 1. I'M SLEEPY


The Undertaker v. Ric Flair (WrestleMania 3/17/02) 
Video package is funny, Taker attacks David Flair in some locker room and brought a camera man with him, la Resistance's theme plays, Flair punches an audience member in the face by accident leading to him getting arrested and there's this super corny business-meeting board thing where Vince & Linda tell him...something, I wasn't listening too much, and Flair says "Wress-stle - Mania" slowly and weirdly, like the way I just typed it sort of. I'm sleepy. Entrances! The Undertaker coming to the ring with the lyrics "L-I-M-P BIZKIT IS RIGHT HERE!" is weird and I never thought too much about it. Flair runs to the ring when he gets close enough and pounds Taker in the face. Flair's strikes are much better than Taker's to be honest but Taker did a very good job selling them, throwing his head in the opposite direction of where the wrinkly fist was coming. I forgot he could do that kind of selling considering it's been a while since I've watched a Taker match where he was less than 80% dust and dead scorpions. It was surprisingly refreshing to see him able to, like, walk? Flair grabbing Taker by the head and going over the commentary table in RAGE was cool. So was Taker choking Flair right on a "WOO!" I tend to forget Flair was still actually very mobile during this time but I guess he still had decent limitations because he failed his over-the-top-rope Irish whip-sell. But you know what, the way he crashed and burned on that second turnbuckle head-first was actually a thousand times more awesome than when he successfully pulled the bump off later. BOOGER RED says "now we go to school" and BOOGER BLONDE begins to bleed from being punched so much. I dug how long they made this match primarily about punches, I was hoping Taker would remove his gloves to add another flavour in it but alas it never came (if it did correct me, am sleepy). The blood on Flair's face really went wild, it was on the back of his head dying his hair in no time. Taker arguably oversells for Flair's chops but no fuck it I really appreciated how he flew back a bit and yelled "ahHhhHHH" because the chops being near-lethal is a great thing (was gonna say "flavour" here but used it already.....was gonna say "spice" but it's too similar) to add to a match that'd mostly based on punches so far. Taker hits a superlex which has Flair yelling in pain and then Taker GRINDS his forearm across Flair's face which has Flair saying some obscenities or something, and then Flair throws a chop which has Flair fall to his knees before being able to do anything else. To quote millions of different people talking about millions of different things: "I liked that." Flair's head looks like a tie-dyed Pomeranian by this point and I did like the 'old school' being countered because it's a big fall for Taker to take, but it was kind of unconvincing. Taker was clearly ready to somersault and I mean no duh you wank I don't want him to get hurt falling so he should prepare all he needs to, but people have made that look a lot better - including The Artist Formerly Known As Booger Red himself. Lawler asks JR "what is a Booger Red?" and that MILLIONS of people want to know, and that is actually true by now in 2018nearly2019. JR says "I'll tell you tomorrow" and if you think I am not fucking stupid enough to watch an entire episode of 2002 Raw just to see if he does, you are...wrong? Right? I forgot what I just typed and whether it would make you wrong or right - I WOULD watch the full Raw to find that explanation, is what I meant. Lawler points out that Flair should be Booger Red because he is way more red than Taker is right now because of the vein juice splatted all over his head. Though earlier he ignored that and said Taker had a really mean gash that would need stitches, consistency much?? Han shot first. Taker gets his unholy sack caught on the top rope and then falls out of the ring when Flair punches/woo-chops him. He winds up near the bike and Flair claws at his face and pulls some thingy from the bike (I not know cars stuff, commentators might not either because they call it just a 'lead pipe') to beat Taker with. Taker running Flair into apron was great purely for the visual of the pipe rolling over from one side of the ring to another. Flair finds a sign that says "KEEP OUT" and beats Taker over the face with before we go back in the ring. JR says "The Undertaker's genitals may be called Death Valley when this all said and done" after Flair kicks Taker in the balls and I really wish he instead said the genitals would be BOOGER RED. Taker attacks Little Naitch but probably not because of the connection the Regular Size Naitch, though there was no other reason to do that because it was No DQ anyway. Maybe he could tell the future and foresaw Arn Anderson running in with the spinebuster (which looked very good) and decided he would at least make the ref slow-count Flair's following pin attempt. But that is obviously not true because (a) if he could tell the future and see Arn coming, he would have just waited and walloped Arn, and (b) he cannot tell the future, dickhead - only shoot lightning out of his hands and summon fire from under the ring. 2002 Arn Anderson is surreal, was cool seeing him though Taker locking in that hold was dumb as fuck because he just left Flair alone to whack him from behind, and….was he hoping to submit Arn? Just tombstone him or something. Like he did with Flair! This was actually a really really fun match that featured two wrestlers who I consider all time greats, even though one only came in later in the match to interfere. HEEEEEYUCK. And to BOOT, one of the good parts of not having ever seen a match before is not knowing who wins!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I went to a Smackdown house show last night in Baltimore and there was some things that had me scratching my head:

- Mysterio vs. Orton went 90 seconds. As far as I know neither one of these guys are hurt so idk what the deal was. They barely did anything and then all of a sudden Orton got set up and hit with the 619 and the splash off the top and it was over. ??? I was quite confused.

- Then in the following match, Jeff Hardy beat Samoa Joe with... a big splash. He literally took his shirt off, ran against the ropes, and jumped on Joe with a splash and that got a 3 count. I mean I get Jeff has that tailbone injury and they're trying to protect him but c'mon now.

- Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena in a STEEL CAGE match for the WWE Title happened and it... wasn't the main event. It was the pre-intermission match. Man this was a weirdly put together card. :lol


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Heads up to UK: not sure how popular Blu-rays/DVDs are post Network (and more importatnly post Silvervision) but WWEDVD has a big sale on right now. Just spent over 40 quid!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE LIST WATCH - 2000


I hadn’t seen the Hardys/Dudleys tables match in so many years that I forgot what I even thought about it before and what I’d think of it now, but it’s a really fun car crash match. Goddamn @ the amount of head shots with the chair were in it, Bubba alone took about three of them. The Jack/Trip street fight will always be great but I might be a little lower on it now than I’ve ever been before. Extremely easy lock regardless but I can’t say for sure it’ll make my top half. I thought their HIAC match was actually not good at all and thank god this wasn’t Foley’s retirement match. Imagine some of the last few moments of your in-ring career being spent trying to throw chairs up to the cell and being too stupid to realise that when you finally succeed in doing it, HHH will of course grab a chair and beat you with it. I don’t think the WM triangle ladder match is all that, which won’t shock anyone. I was at least intrigued as it progressed so that’s something. I had to watch Rock/Trip at Backlash twice to make sure I wasn’t overrating the first watch (not first watch EVER, but first watch for this poll) but no I seriously adore the match as the ultimate interference-based crowd-pleasing-after-heel-domination Attitude Era spectacle. Austin being absent and then showing up to a gargantuan pop. Shane McMahon as referee only for Hebner and Linda to come in later. McMahons everywhere. “If you read the fine print, it will say ‘card subject to change.’” Shane refusing to count a fall. Trip hugging Shane after distracting him, so Vince could attack Rock even though Shane would have let that fly anyway. Trip putting his feet on the ropes during the headlock and Shane going lower to ask Rock, to “not see it.” JR’s reactions to all the chicanery. Double Rock Bottom into the announce table and Vince’s reaction after it. Linda shoving Stephanie! It was obviously pieced together, HHH could be more compelling on offense, and it is helped by taking place in an era where WWF/E was as hot as it will ever get, but it just feels like a bit of magic that supersedes most of any negatives. Exactly what a WrestleMania main event should be, except one PPV late. I’ll have it higher than the Rumble street fight and likely every other HHH match. I might kick out the JD opener eventually but it’s on the bottom right now, it’s a blast and a half and a LACK OF PANTS. It has about five things in it that made me laugh. The whole stack of spots where Christian mocks Sexay, Sexay tags out to Rikishi behind his back, Rikishi clears out Christian and Edge, and then Christian tags in a distracted Angle, is utter gold. IIRC I said the iron man is great and HHH was awesome in it on last watch and I’d agree with neither of those now. It’s pretty good but I’ll probably never find a reason to go through the full hour again. I was honestly really disappointed with the Trip/Jericho LMS from Fully Loaded. I went to watch it like “wonder how this stacks up next to the Rumble and Backlash title matches” and tbh I’d take the build-up tag to the Rumble that I hyped up over it. I had it on my unfinished best of 2000s list and the idea of me putting on the best matches of an entire decade seems actually bizarre to me now. I’d still call it good but not super good. Benoit/Rock from the same show isn’t super good either, Benoit didn’t diversify his offense a whole lot and it wasn’t really interesting to watch. Maybe ironic criticism considering arguably Benoit’s best match is him constantly applying a sleeper but hell. I don’t think Benoit was a good fit for what they were going for, I mean being a meany cheaty heel who comes out with a meany cheaty McMahon against the biggest star in the business who has the odds stacked against him. I wouldn’t picture Benoit that role. TLC I is way better and actually feels more fresh than the WM ladder match. I found most of the off-the-ladder spots to feel more like a mad rush to get your opponent down, over WM focusing on being an innovation showcase or whatever. Also the spots that took out Matt and Bubba were huge and Jeff/D-Von dangling from the belts was a pretty great way to close it out to me. As a contrast, pretty sure at WM that Edge takes the same suplex Christian does and is out for like 8 minutes. Pleasantly surprised by the TLC, much more into the idea of seeing the next couple. I first watched Trip/Benoit at No Mercy for the 2000s poll IIRC and thought it was boring. Still not really a fan. I thought it was really good and surprisingly scrappy until Benoit stops selling the leg. Which is like, less than ten minutes I’m pretty sure. It’s an ok match. I liked Rock/Angle from the same night more, the Steph shenanigans felt more natural and they were able to do a smidgen of outta-the-ring brawling. I wanted to see a good short tv match in between all this so I watched Austin/Benoit from the 11/20 Raw and it holds up as a fun watch. Obviously they destroy it the next year at least a couple times but if they didn’t it would have served as a reminder that they could have. Like…Austin/Eddie 11/16 SD, which I also watched. Shorter than the Benoit match but a little more heated and Benoit doesn’t crotch himself on the ring post. I still don’t like the Armageddon Hell in a Cell. Trip bumping around/selling for Austin’s wildness is my only real consistent highlight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Giant paragraph of FUCK. (I'm still reading it)

I'll always love the Armageddon Hell in a Cell. It's utter chaos. As it stands, mostly with you on the Cactus vs Trips HIAC. I should watch it again to fully know, but last time I watched it wasn't all that special to me. Especially following the Street Fight. Triple H vs Benoit from No Mercy was always boring to me, though. Prefer Benoit vs Trips from Smackdown in early Feb over it. (Benoit's first WWF match)

TLC I is legendary. Edge spearing Lita on the outside and JR getting PISSED calling him a son of a bitch rules. King is upset with JR for his language, too. Even stuff outside of those six is on point. I've seen all of those Hardys/Dudleys/E&C matches so many times that nothing ever needs to be revisited, I just watch them often for the pure fun of how much I enjoy all the matches.

I swear, I haven't seen Trips vs Rock from Backlash maybe since it happened on PPV. I really have to witness this again. Nearly 19 years later and I still feel certain it is just as great as it was on that night. That's a good feeling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I instinctively ignored this thread after I posted that assuming nobody would would respond because this thread's been dead for so long but yay.

I remember us maybe briefly talking about the Armageddon HIAC over at WrestleClubForums in like 2010 when it was a WF off-shoot of sorts. This was before we really knew each other all that much too. The verdict still was you loving it and me not being a fan so the more things change the more we'll mention Paul WS Anderson to each other on some random board in 9 years time. TLC I - I forgot how close Lita's head got to the ladder on the spear. Hell it may have even really connected, I can't tell. IDR Benoit's debut match at all (couldn't even tell someone who was against had they asked) but if I squeeze in enough of the """heavy hitters""" far enough to the deadline, I'm gonna go through the more under-the-radar tv stuff and obviously 2000 will play a decent-sized part in that so I'll check that out. I feel like I made a mistake not re-watching any of the Benoit/Jerichos on PPV that year too, so that'll get done as well. I'm about halfway through the 2001 stuff now and "spoilers" I guess but I'm a little surprised I still like their Rumble ladder match as much as I do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jim Cornette vs Sensational Sherri in a 'loser gets spanked' match

:homer3

That's a find.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2001 finally done.

Austin/Angle 1/8 is fun as hell and a really good match. I could have seen myself chucking it on as a low pick but WWE has so many matches over 40 years that I can't see it staying. I kinda hope someone else lists it though. Austin got a near fall in a WWF title match with some grounded punches. The Benoit/Jericho ladder match is something I hadn't seen in so long (I...don't remember watching it for the 00s poll?) that I didn't have a clue what I'd think of it so I'm happy to report I thought it was kinda excellent. If you play-by-played everything starting them getting the ladder involved it might sound like a bunch of spotty shit but I bought them using their wits to find creative counters for most of it and thought they did a really good job selling everything in between. I didn't rewatch any of their 2000 series but I'm gonna have to go and do that sometime to see if I'll get any on the list. I definitely felt the disdain in this one despite not having seen any of those recently, too. Side note: I've just marinated on this now but Benoit spent the whole of 2000 (in WWF) as a heel, didn't he? Something strange about that to me. Austin/Trip 3SOH is a'ight or good or something I'm not really sure. There's probably a great 15 minute Austin showcase if you took all the best parts but as a whole I couldn't really pay too much attention to it. Was impressed with how invested a lot of the audience seem to be the whole 40 minutes though. Rock and Angle's title match from the same show is another fun title match between the two. The Big Show run in was weird but Mike Chioda's face during replay of the chokeslam was fucking hilarious. What the hell was with Hebnar flubbing the finish? TLC II was more contrived than the first and the finish was flat. Like the triangle ladder match though I was able to watch it with some intrigue. I don't need to go into Rock/Austin. I've had discussions about some of the execution a few times and yeah it could be better but they throw everything with such recklessness and energy that I just don't think it comes even close to prevent it from being a great match. As far as spot-by-spot decision making goes it feels almost flawless, at least until McMahon enters. I watched the INFAMOUS Backlash 01 tag and it had some fun stuff, mostly Trip/Austin's shtick. Wasn't as good as Edge/Christian/Angle's from JD 00 but pretty fun. Match did nooooot need 25 minutes though and Cal giving this ****1/2 would fit on a list of top ten looney Meltzer ratings. Is there a good Austin/Undertaker from around this time I should watch? I seem to remember one. I watched TLC III (5/24/01) before Austin/Trip v. Ben & Jerrys (5/21/01) because I like seeing the latter + the two Austin/Benoits as a "trilogy" in a way. Didn't think of much the TLC. Benoit's injury added something new I guess. THE TRILOGY is obviously great. Well the first Austin/Benoit isn't but it's very good and I won't be surprised if it gets a couple votes. The rematch aka the number 1 match of the 2000s (apparently. And if Cal didn't fuck up the count) really is fantastic and thank Christ there was no commercial break splitting anything up. I'm not sure there was a 90 second span of the match we could have chopped off and lost nothing. I was thinking about watching Angle/Shane from KOTR because maybe I won't utterly despise it now but I'll save it for if I give more time to the list rewatches and go through each year again. Austin/Angle at Summerslam has actually gotten better each watch (remember when I first watched it and was super edgy about it being overrated lmao). I'll have it a fair bit higher than I would have had I finished my 2000s list (or had we done a WWE list at the time). The 'period' starting at Austin first hitting the stunner and ending with Angle getting the ankle lock on the outside (so, mainly Austin's outside assault, inc. the ring posts) is about as good a stretch in a WWE match ever. The Unforgiven match starts off excellently with the Angle revenge tour and if it stayed at that level throughout, I might have voted for it. The in-ring stuff was good enough but it was definitely a drop in quality. Weird moments like Angle's low blow getting no reaction too. The finish kind of came abruptly to me as well. Edge/Christian ladder match at No Mercy is like...a thing. I dunno. The shoot where they both talked about how they knocked each other out during it is really interesting. Rock/Jericho from the same show isn't especially good. I used to cite it as one of the few great Jericho matches and turns out that list gets even fewer (see: HHH LMS not holding up either). Feels like a lifetime ago that most of us agreed on this being like ****1/4 and I wonder if I should bother with the Rumble match. Jericho has the worst sideburns ever. Yes, good idea, that's how I'll end this post.


----------



## MediaAMz V2 (Jan 28, 2019)

Corey said:


> I went to a Smackdown house show last night in Baltimore and there was some things that had me scratching my head:
> 
> - Mysterio vs. Orton went 90 seconds. As far as I know neither one of these guys are hurt so idk what the deal was. They barely did anything and then all of a sudden Orton got set up and hit with the 619 and the splash off the top and it was over. ??? I was quite confused.
> 
> ...


Wait let me, get this straight. Cena versed Daniel Bryan, for the WWE Title. I hope this, does not, mean that cena will, get a future title shot again -_-.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 35 PPV Ramble http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/wrestlemania-35-ppv-ramble/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal has a blog?

Also, watch Velveteen Dream matches. That doesn't take 7 and a half hours.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

"Ok, food break. Really fancied some chicken pies. Then I remembered the Iceland delivery didn’t deliver any chicken pies, so we have no chicken pies. Just steak pies. Had fish burgers instead." 

:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> Giant paragraph of FUCK. (I'm still reading it)
> 
> *I'll always love the Armageddon Hell in a Cell.* It's utter chaos. As it stands, mostly with you on the Cactus vs Trips HIAC. I should watch it again to fully know, but last time I watched it wasn't all that special to me. Especially following the Street Fight. Triple H vs Benoit from No Mercy was always boring to me, though. Prefer Benoit vs Trips from Smackdown in early Feb over it. (Benoit's first WWF match)
> 
> ...


seeing love for the Armageddon HIAC :mark: roud


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I didn't know where to put this, so I figured it was best to put here. I just finished watching that new Worlds Collide show. It was a weird show, taking effectively NXT's midcard and pitting it against a bunch of talent the MR have either mishandled or forgotten about. This resulted in a lot of intriguing combinations on paper which were never as interesting in execution but had an edge to them all the same because they celebrated and showcased the talent of mishandled and forgotten MR talent like Luke Harper, Sanity and Tyler Breeze.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If WWE wants to not suck and grant Harper his release, then this match vs Dijak is gonna be his final aired match with the company. I was going to watch it regardless, but this now has a bit more of an incentive behind it. Curious to see if Strong destroying Breeze turns into anything good, too.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Hell in a Cell”
October 4th, 2009
From the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey
Commentators: Michael Cole and Jerry “the King” Lawler (Raw), Jim Ross and Todd Grisham (Smackdown)
Theme Song: Monster by Skillet

Hell in a Cell Match for the World Heavyweight Championship 
*CM Punk (champion) vs. the Undertaker*
This wasn’t much of a match. They beat the crap out of one another but they didn’t get enough time to make it matter. It was pretty much all offence from the Undertaker.
Winner: the Undertaker (new World Heavyweight Champion)

The Rise and Fall of WCW ad.

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*John Morrison (champion) vs. Dolph Ziggler*
These two had a good undercard match and gave their all. They got more time than the previous match.
Winner: John Morrison

Josh Matthews is backstage with Batista and Rey Mysterio, who are reuniting tonight to try and reclaim the WWE Unified Tag Team Championships from Chris Jericho and the Big Show.

For the WWE Divas Championship
*Alicia Fox vs. Mickie James (champion)*
Holy shit; can you believe that these two are still around ten years later?! Alicia Fox is hot no matter what decade it is. This was just as good as any women’s match today but they just don’t tell you it is.
Winner: Mickie James

“Don’t Try This At Home” ad.

For the WWE Unified Tag Team Championships
*Chris Jericho & the Big Show (champions) vs. Batista & Rey Mysterio*
The crowd was into this match but I really wasn’t. It felt like something I’ve seen a million times before but it was a good match.
Winners: Chris Jericho & the Big Show

Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Championship
*Randy Orton vs. John Cena (champion)*
Ugh, bald Randy Orton. Ugh, 2009 John Cena. Yuck. Shit in Roman Reigns all you want, he’s nothing compared to Cena during his run. He’s pretty much the sole reason I didn’t watch WWE around this time as opposed to my reasons for not watching WWE ten years later being the WWE as a whole. He really was total shit. This match was okay.
Winner: Randy Orton (new WWE champion)

Josh Matthews is with R-Truth, who doesn’t appreciate Drew McIntyres constant disrespect.

*R-Truth vs. Drew McIntyre*
The “boring” chants started less than a minute into this one. 
Winner: Drew McIntyre

Randy Orton is backstage when Legacy comes into to congratulate him. He warns them about Hell in a Cell.

For the WWE United States Championship
*The Miz vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kofi Kingston (champion)*
This was decent. They gave their all in front of an apathetic crowd.
Winner: Kofi Kingston

Hell in a Cell
*Legacy vs. Degeneration X*
I didn’t even bother watching this. 
Winners: Degeneration X
_______________________________________________________________________________
It’s incredible how many of the guys on this show are still in the WWE ten years later. If you watch a show from 1999 I don’t think there was anyone from 1989 still there. Maybe one old guy in a battle royal. Same watching this from 2009, there were very few people from 1999 still there. I don’t know if that’s a testament to the conditioning of the athletes today or a slight on the WWEs inability to create anything new that sticks. 

This was a decent show. Nothing crazy but an entertaining watch. The Undertaker verses CM Punk could’ve been a lot better if it had of gotten more than ten minutes. It should have been the main event but with Degeneration X in full-on mode that just wasn’t happening. The Unified Tag Team Championship Match was fun to watch for the thousandth time.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “TLC”
December 16th, 2019
From the SAP Center in San Jose, California
Commentators: Michael Cole, Renee Young and Corey Graves (Raw); Tom Phillips, Corey Graves and David Otunga (Smackdown Live!)

Final of the WWE Mixed Match Challenge
Winners get the number 30 spot in their respect Royal Rumbles
*R-Truth & Carmella vs. Jinder Mahal & Alicia Fox w/the Singh Brothers* 
This was fine when Truth and Mahal were in the ring but it was an absolute abomination when Carmella and Alicia were.
Winners: R-Truth & Carmella

For the WWE Smackdown Live! Tag Team Championships
*The New Day (Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods) w/Big E vs. the Usos vs. the Bar (champions)*
This was a really good match from all teams but Tom Phillips’ commentary was grating. The Bar were a really good team that would’ve torn shit up in any other era.
Winners: the Bar

TLC Match with Baron Corbins job as General Manager of Raw on the Line, if Braun Strowman wins he gets a shot at the Universal Championship at the Royal Rumble
*Baron Corbin vs. Braun Strowman w/a broken arm* 
Special Referee: Heath Slater
Since Braun had a broken arm (and since TLC Matches are no disqualifications) Apollo Crews, Bobby Roode, Chad Gable, Finn Balor, Heath Slater and Kurt Angle all helped him in this match. They all got their shots in and that was the end of that. Terrible.
Winner: Braun Strowman

Tables Match
*Natalya vs. Ruby Riott w/Liv Morgan and Sarah Logan*
I’d already forgotten this classic WWE angle of the Riott Squad mocking Natalya’s fathers death five months before this. Fuck this company.
Winner: Natalya 

*Drew McIntyre vs. Finn Balor*
This match had some good work from both guys but the crowd was just not into it. Finn Balor gets an entrance pop and that’s it. Drew McIntyre doesn’t even get that much.
Winner: Finn Balor

Chairs Match
*Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton* 
These two wrestled to almost complete silence. But I can’t blame the crowd. I’m pretty sure I saw this match fifteen years ago.
Winner: Rey Mysterio 

For the WWE Raw Women’s Championship 
*Nia Jax w/Tamina vs. Ronda Rousey (champion)*
I was hoping this would at least be the mess it should have been. Instead it was just another boring ass match with three people excited by it (Michael Cole, Renee Young and Corey Graves) and it went way too long. I think the crowd was more behind Nia.
Winner: Ronda Rousey

For the WWE Championship 
*AJ Styles vs. Daniel Bryant (champion)*
I love how Daniel Bryant was a heel here for living a clean healthy lifestyle and cared for the environment. Reminds me of the days when Molly Holly was a heel for being a virgin. This wasn’t the best match but it did its job. Is it strange that I was glad it ended with a roll-up?
Winner: Daniel Bryant

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins (champion)*
The back-and-forth between Renee Young and Corey Graves during this match was grating. I guess the cat is out of the bag now that she’s married to Dean Ambrose. But they sounded so fucking canned arguing. It’s really fucking garbage. The match wasn’t that great. I’m not sure why it didn’t get to be under TLC rules?
Winner: Dean Ambrose (new WWE Intercontinental Champion)

TLC Match for the WWE Smackdown Live! Women’s Championship 
*Asuka vs. Charlotte vs. Becky Lynch (champion)*
This was pretty good. At least they threw three women who can dish out and take a beating in this match. Bayley verses Liv Morgan verses Alicia Fox in a TLC Match would be a sight to see. I’m still not over that horrendous feud between Lynch, Charlotte and Ronda Rousey that dominated the WWE leading up to Wrestlemania yet. God that was terrible. That mess was already starting up at this point. Rousey cost Lynch and Charlotte this match.
Winner: Asuka (new WWE Smackdown Live! Women’s Champion)
_________________________________________________________________________________
I didn’t watch this just to shit on it. Honest. My youngest son saw Seth Rollins on the cover and that’s his favourite wrestler so he wanted to watch it. The first few undercard matches were good. But as the show went on the crowd died and the show got damn boring. They died within an hour, actually. And this show was almost four hours. It’s just the WWE today. I don’t need to say anything anyone else isn’t. The crowd popped for entrances, big spots and finishers. That’s all they do these days. I noticed that when I recently went to a house show. I think the crowd is a big part of the problem with the product looking so bad these days. You look at the audience and by the second hour it’s restless children and bored parents, with a few fans here and there. The crowds even five years ago were hot for most of the show. There were moments in the Ambrose verses Rollins match when the crowd should have been going crazy but they were virtually silent.

I don’t know why these people go to the live shows. Especially with what the WWE charges for tickets these days.

I fast-forwarded through all the hype videos, backstage segments and entrances. Matches are all that interest me and I think just watching those was how I was able to bare this show. They were all fine. Even the Ronda verses Nia Match was passable. It was everything outside the ring (the commentary, the crowd, the camera-work) that was fucking garbage.

Here it comes.

Fuck this fucking shit.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

*Intercontinental Title Steel Cage Match - Jeff Hardy (c) vs. Johnny Nitro (w/Melina)*
Big “Hardy” chants to kick off the match. The match is fairly tame for a Steel Cage match, but not boring. It’s basically a solid match within a cage, which is fine although not preferable. Mostly built around escaping rather than the hatred between the two wrestlers. However, some of the spots were really clever like Nitro Irish whipping Hardy, only for Hardy to jump the ropes and attempt to escape and Nitro hanging off the top of the cage using his legs. The crowd didn’t react to some of the spots like they really should’ve such as the sunset flip off the top of the cage. Maybe they have been desensitized by this point but still, something like that should’ve got a massive response. The finish was a bit contrived with Nitro easily able to escape before Hardy but choosing not to. Clunkily paced in parts with some decent moments but lacked tension. **1/2

*Promo with Edge/Randy Orton *
Pretty bland promo, from Orton especially. 

*Tag Team Turmoil Match* 
Nah. 

*Vince/Coach segment*
Now I know that someone people are into arse licking but I don’t want to see it with Vince McMahon and Jonathan Coachman, thanks. Although that set up for Ron Simmons’ “DAMN” was gold. 

*Kenny Dykstra vs. Ric Flair*
Kenny coming out with the most generic theme song but also dressing like Ric Flair. Talk about a juxtaposition. Kenny cuts a very robotic promo, I guess it’s one of the reasons why he never got past the mid-card. Flair lights up Kenny’s chest like only he could. Woos follow of course. Dykstra does some really bland work over Flair to zero heat. The fans are clearly waiting for Flair to do his stuff, which is always fun, no matter the age. There is some commentary with Lawler begging Flair not to go to the top rope because it never works, and low and behold, it doesn’t. Flair does a nasty chop block but actually hurts his back when Kenny lands on him. There is an awesome spot where they are locked in the figure four and Flair slaps Kenny. Still got the little touches of brilliance. The finish was ugh with a low blow and a roll-up but Lawler, again, put over how Kenny used Flair’s tricks against him. Lawler was on fire this match. Nothing match. **1/4

*Victoria/Melina Segment *
Apparently, Victoria has a checklist with all the woman's names on. There are only 5 women on the list so that sounds about right. 

*WWE Women's Title Match - Mickie James (c) vs. Victoria*
Damn Victoria hasn’t joined TNA yet? I know she is apart of the promotion by the end of the year, so it must be imminent. There is some solid chain wrestling. Take notes, Kurt Angle. . The crowd is pretty silent for this which isn’t a big surprise given the era for women’s wrestling. Victoria does some really good work on the neck of Mickie James, first with the initial front face locks then using the ropes to wrench the neck in an unnatural position. Mickie throws some punches and I was just waiting for Lawler to talk, and he said: “this is throwing the wrestling out of the window”. That got me a chuckle. Melina came down and interfered, playing off the segment before the match. The divas (Candice Michelle and Maria) came down and even up the score. Mickie James got the win from a bulldog out of nowhere. I liked this a ton. Not a bad match. **3/4

*World Tag Team Title Match - Rated-RKO (Edge & Randy Orton) (c) vs. D-Generation X (Shawn Michaels & Triple H)*
I remember watching this live. When I was a young one, I woke up in the middle of the fight and listened in on my Dad watching this show. I burst out in tears because I couldn’t watch it live but my Dad let me in the end and this as on. I used to love Triple H. Even over Shawn. I still prefer him over Shawn Michaels to this day actually. 

The match starts off heavy with DX meeting Rated RKO on the rampway and brawled for a little bit before transitioning into a normal match. The match gets a little dull for a few minutes but Triple H unleashes some punches on Orton which pops the crowd before Edge chop block the left leg (not the leg that’ll get injured btw) of Triple H and begin to work it over. Shawn comes in for a warm tag. Orton and Edge show some really good tag chemistry which does surprise me. It doesn’t come across as two single guys teaming as far as their work goes. Shawn gets split open seemingly out of nowhere (is HBK a Flair mark?), which is basically a big match obligation for 2007. Orton unleashes his awesome Garvin Stomp which always gets me to pop. Speaking of obligations, Rated RKO works over HBK’s back which is fine in theory but it seems aimless and doesn’t go anywhere. However, Shawn does have some nice chops as a defence at least. Triple H comes in with a great hot tag before it happens. You can actually see the muscle on the side of the knee at certain angles. They scramble and take HHH out of the match for the meanwhile. Then the chairs come in with Orton bleeding badly now. The match hits another level with Triple H hitting a goddamn pedigree with the torn quad on the table and Shawn hitting an elbow drop through the other table on Orton. The match sort of ends with no bell and seemingly no real signal the match is over. Now HHH did well to carry on given the injury, but it was still dumb to do so. The match is good but also has its flaws. Things like the aforementioned aimless back work and the structure of the match being brawl, normal match, brawl. No natural progression. However, the finish (if you can call it that) ruled and was easily the peak of the match. ***1/2

*John Cena Promo*
Good promo. Put over Umaga as a big monster. 
*
Carlito (w/Torrie Wilson) vs. Chris Masters *
“Masters might be the WWE champion if it was all about physique” hmmm. They do moves. No one cares. Let’s move on. DUD. But wait!!!!! “Masters has a thought. Something unusual” GOAT burial by JR. 

*WWE Heavyweight Title Match - John Cena (c) vs. Umaga (w/Armando Estrada)*
Seeing Umaga brings back childhood memories. Used to have a figure of Umaga. My favourite too. I adored everything about him. His look most of all. I used to genuinely believe his face paint was a real tattoo. Oh, how naive was I. 

The match starts off pretty good. Cena adopts a stick and moves approach in the opening moments. Baiting Umaga in and getting a few shots in. I did like the “Umaga ate my sign” sign in the crowd. Umaga does a really great job of working over Cena. His unique offence looks so impactful. Something fresh and new to counter Cena’s simplistic babyface offence. The whole match reminds me of Hogan matches in the ’80s. There even is a spot where Cena picks up Umaga only to fall back under the weight which is a classic Hogan spot. And Umaga going for the classic monster role, working over the ribs, using his weight and speed of his moves to his advantage. Cena sells excellently too, getting the crowd on his side very easily which I was taken back by given Cena was hated. Another thing that is good about this match is the struggle Cena has. It’s not as simple as making a comeback and getting stuff it. He has to earn everything he can. He has to not only get out of what Umaga is doing but deal with his constant cutoffs too. The finish is really clever too. Umaga stops another FU attempt and looks to hit all his big moves but Cena sees it coming and does the only thing he can do, he rolls Umaga up. Doesn’t kick out of Umaga’s big moves. He doesn’t even use a ton of his own. He adapts as a champion should. It’s a great match and easily my Match of the night. Loved everything about it. Not as good as their Rumble match but most matches aren’t. ****

Alright show, if I say so myself. The main event and the tag team title match are really good matches. Both well worth recommending. The rest is a bunch of mediocre wrestling that isn’t worth watching. Carlito vs Chris Masters is garbage. For a Raw B-PPV, this is okay, not bad. Best To Worst: John Cena vs. Umaga - [****]. Rated-RKO vs. D-Generation X - [***1/2]. Mickie James vs. Victoria - [**3/4] Jeff Hardy vs Johnny Nitro - [**1/2]. Kenny Dykstra vs. Ric Flair - [**1/4]. Carlito vs. Chris Masters - [DUD]. Tag Team Turmoil Match - [NR].


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Extreme Rules”
April 25th, 2010
From the First Mariner Arena in Baltimore, Maryland
Commentators: Michael Cole, Jerry “the King” Lawler, Matt Stryker
Theme Song: Time To Shine by Saliva

Triple H’s music hits...but he never comes out for his scheduled Street Fight against Sheamus. The camera cuts to backstage where Sheamus is beating him up with a steel pipe.

The Unified Tag Team Champions (the Big Show and the Miz) come out and demand that Bret Hart come out on Raw the following night to admit they are the greatest Tag team of all time. They demand competition and Teddy Long comes out and makes...A TAG TEAM GAUNTLET MATCH, PLAYA! with the winners getting a shot at their titles tomorrow.

Gauntlet Match for a shot at the WWE Unified Tag Team Championships
*ShowMiz vs. R-Truth & John Morrison*
This was fine.
Winners: ShowMiz
*ShowMiz vs. MVP & Mark Henry*
This isn’t even worth mentioning.
Winners: ShowMiz
*ShowMiz vs. the Hart Dynasty w/Natalya and Bret Hart*
This lasted all of one move.
Winners: the Hart Dynasty

Sheamus says if Triple H is too much a coward to face him he should come to the ring and admit.

If CM Punk Loses his head will be shaved
*CM Punk w/the Straight Edge Society vs. Rey Mysterio*
The stipulation for this match should have been if CM Punk loses he has to shave his chest. It was fucking disgusting. It was a decent match.
Winner: CM Punk

Strap Match
*Shad Gaspard vs. JTG*
This was garbage. I’m not a fan of Strap Matches as it is but why would you put such a meaningless feud in one?
Winner: JTG

Todd Grisham is still outside Triple H’s lockeroom and he has been told Triple H will likely not compete tonight.

Extreme Rules Match for the World Heavyweight Championship 
*Jack Swagger (champion) vs. Randy Orton*
This didn’t hold my attention at all.
Winner: Jack Swagger

Sheamus comes out to the ring to hear Triple H admit to being a coward. He demands the referee raise his hand and declare him the winner of their match. Backstage a groggy Triple H leaves the lockeroom and heads for the ring.

Street Fight 
*Sheamus vs. Triple H*
I have zero sympathy for "face" Triple H so I enjoyed watching Sheamus beat on him. It was a decent Street Fight.
Winner: Sheamus

Josh Mathews asks Edge his thoughts on his upcoming Cage Match. Edge says he’s not even going to try escape; he just wants Chris Jericho in the cage.

Extreme Makeover Match for the WWE Womens Championship
*Michelle McCool (champion) w/Layla and Vickie Guerrero vs. Beth Phoenix*
While this was no Bra & Panties or Evening Gown Match it still managed to be a fucking abomination. What really killed it was Vickie and Layla’s actions outside the ring. They were terrible. The commentators called Michelle McCool “the greatest diva of all-time”. I guess that’s true since they only used that term for a short while. But nowadays that seems more like an insult than a compliment. 
Winner: Beth Phoenix (new WWE Womens Champion)

“Please do not try this at home” ad.

Josh Mathews is with Chris Jericho, who says one loss earlier on in the week to an NXT rookie named “Heath Slater” will not affect him at all. One thing for sure, one win against Chris Jericho didn’t affect Heath Slater that much.

Steel Cage Match
*Edge vs. Chris Jericho*
You know what? I was never the hugest Edge fan but seeing him come out here made me really miss him. They told a good story of two people with vehement hatred for one another, with both having many opportunities to exit the cage but deciding to go back in and beat the other more. 
Winner: Edge

Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship
*Batista vs. John Cena (champion)*
This was a really good match but it had that fucking duct tape around the ankles finish. I mean yeah, Batista couldn’t stand up to answer the ten count. But he was flailing around trying to stand up, clearly not incapacitated. You could even hear the collective groan from the live crowd.
Winner: John Cena
__________________________________________________________________________________
This was not a very good show at all. Firstly was the lack of anything really extreme in any of the matches. I've learned though that the name "Extreme Rules" is just a name the WWE still uses because they're in autopilot for most of the spring and probably haven't even noticed it the last decade. But moreso the fact that some of the matches were downright bad. The Gauntlet Match lasted barely five minutes total. The Strap Match didn’t even break five minutes (and was between Shad Gaspard and JTG) and the Extreme Makeover Match was a match where a table full of makeup was at ringside. You would have thought that plus Vickie Guererro would’ve meant total humiliation. But no. And then there’s the fucking stupid ending to the main event.

The beginning with Sheamus attacking Triple H before the match even started was an interesting and different way to start to a show. But like I said, I can’t stand Triple H (especially “face” Triple H) so I was actually happy at the prospect of not having to watch him wrestle. And it was something that would happen on Raw, which is how a lot of this show felt: like an episode of Raw but with more important matches. In some cases. The Tag Team Gauntlet Match and the Strap Match belonged on Raw, except without the Strap Match stipulation for that match. 

The last two matches were at least good. The Last Man Standing Match was really good but just had such a dumb ending. And it exemplified the “Super Cena”/#cenawinslol era. Pure stupidity.

Neon Green Shirt guy was in the front row, but he was wearing a purple shirt.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

*Chris Benoit vs. Mr Kennedy - WWE Friday Night Smackdown 12/01/2007*
This was so, so boring. Benoit tried but ultimately failed to get anything out of Kennedy. Kennedy was a bore on offence and looked so uncoordinated. Chavo coming out for the interference made the entire match pointless. Now I wouldn't have minded if the match was interesting but it really wasn't. *1/2
*
Chris Benoit vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Friday Night Smackdown 19/01/2007 [WWE United States Title Match]*
One thing off the bat is the feeling of hatred. Chavo is a great heel when it comes to his work. He comes across as so petty in whatever he does and it works in his favour. Chavo beats Benoit with the steel chair and goes to town on his arm with it. Usually, Benoit’s game but it gets turned on him, another great hook of the match. Benoit sells it really well early on. Really draws you in. Chavo does an awesome spot where he does the three amigos onto the US title belt and the steel chair. Even better when he misses a frog splash and lands of the chair he used. Benoit locks on the sharpshooter because his arm being worked on meant he couldn’t lock on the crossface and again, Chavo ruled because he is crawling towards the chair, the clutch he has been using all match and he has to tap before he can use it. Great stuff. ***3/4


*Edge vs Shawn Michaels - WWE Raw 22/01/2007 [Street Fight]*
With HHH gone at New Year’s Revolution, Shawn Michaels is left on his own to finish off the DX vs Rated RKO feud. After last week’s attack (I think) with Edge and Orton blooding HBK up, HBK is out for revenge. So we got a street fight with him going against Edge.

No normal Shawn Michaels routine for the entrance. Goes right for Edge early on, which is good although I do love striptease in my wrestling. Shawn ruins the moment by throwing some god awful punches. Oh well. One of the main tropes mid-2000s main events was the constant blood baths, only in this case, we don’t actually get to see what caused the blood. They do more weapon spots but they are all sold really badly with Edge at one point blowing off a slam on the ladder only to get slammed through the ladder again by Shawn Michaels off the top rope after a superplex attempt. Shawn Michaels tries to portray anger, I think, but it comes off so goofy with the facial expressions that make him look on the verge of tears, and an old man Terry Funk impression, which is done so poorly to the point of parody. Edge is bad, as per usual, botching lifting HBK on his shoulders and having his usual awful looking offence. Overall, this was a very soulless, generic street fight with two bad performances. *3/4

*The ECW Originals (Rob Van Dam, Sabu, The Sandman & Tommy Dreamer) vs. The New Breed (Elijah Burke, Kevin Thorn, Marcus Cor Von & Matt Striker - WWE ECW 03/04/2007 [Extreme Rules Eight Man Tag Team Match]*
Fantastic match. The match started off as a normal match but soon rose in intensity at an alarming rate. You might have well taken Dreamer and Sandman out because they did nothing. Sabu and RVD blew me away with their performance. The New Breed looked phenomenal too. Great stuff. ****

*Brian Kendrick & Paul London vs. Chavo Guerrero & Gregory Helms - WWE Friday Night Smackdown 06/04/2007*
Pretty decent match by the tag champions. There was a ton of fun, faced paced spot. The crowd was on their feet for the match. Nothing that I'll leave a big impact on people but entertaining nonetheless. Deuce and Domino coming out were interesting. A good showcase for the tag champions for their tag team championship title match next week. ***


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Royal Rumble”
January 19th, 1992
From the Knickerbocker Arena in Albany, New York
Commentators: Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby “the Brain” Heenan

Tonight: the Vacant WWF Heavyweight Championship is up for grabs in the Royal Rumble!

*The Orient Express vs. The New Foundation*
This was a good match that was completely carried by Owen Hart.
Winners: the New Foundation 

Recap of Bret Hart recently losing the WWF Intercontinental Championship to the Mountie.

The Mountie cuts a promo.

Rowdy Roddy Piper cuts one of the most nonsensical promos I’ve heard in my life.

For the WWF Intercontinental Championship 
*The Mountie (champion) w/Jimmy Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper*
This wasn’t the best match but the crowd was hot as hell the entire time.
Winner: Rowdy Roddy Piper 

Hulk Hogan says there are no friends in the Royal Rumble.

The Bushwhackers cut a promo.

*The Beverly Brothers w/the Genius vs. the Bushwhackers w/Jamison*
This was a Bushwhacker match with the only difference being it went way too fucking long. Jamison was so terrible.
Winners: the Beverly Brothers

For the WWF Tag Team Championships
*The Natural Disasters w/Jimmy Hart vs. the Legion of Doom (champions)*
This was a good match that got out of hand very quickly and ended on a count-out.
Winners: the Natural Disasters via count-out

All the competitors in the Royal Rumble stake their claims.

The Royal Rumble for the WWF Heavyweight Championship
*Featuring: The Barbarian, The Berzerker, The Big Boss Man, the British Bulldog, Col. Mustafa, Greg “the Hammer” Valentine, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Haku, Hercules, Hulk Hogan, Irwin R. Schyster, Jake “the Snake” Roberts, Jerry Sags, Jimmy Snuka, Nikolai Volkoff, Randy Savage, Repo Man, Ric Flair, Rick Martel, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Sgt. Slaughter, Shawn Michaels, Sid Justice, Skinner, Ted Dibiase, The Texas Tornado, The Undertaker, The Warlord, Tito Santana and Virgil*
You know how you watch current Royal Rumbles and most of the guys come out to crickets with the odd star here and there, maybe four or five actual stars during the whole match? This was the complete opposite. The crowd was nuclear for everyone, even the four or five “nobody’s” who came out. The match is incredible and deserving of the title of being one of the greatest matches of all time. The commentary makes it even better. I don’t need to sell this match to anyone.
Winner: Ric Flair
____________________________________________________________________________
As with all Royal Rumbles the undercard of this match wasn’t very good. The first Tag Team Match was good and the Tag Team title match was going places until the lame ending. But this show is all about the Royal Rumble. It’s mandatory viewing for any wrestling fan and still holds up almost thirty years later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Chavo No DQ match rules. There were a handful of matches on that same Smackdown I liked. Hardy vs Mercury standing out with Matt Hardy still being maybe the best guy in WWE at the time.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Hell in a Cell”
October 27th, 2013
From the American Airlines Arena in Miami, Florida
Commentators: Michael Cole, JBL and Jerry Lawler 
Theme Song: _Out of Time_ by Stone Temple Pilots

For the WWE Tag Team Championships
*Cody Rhodes & Goldust (champions) vs. the Usos vs. the Shield*
This was a really good, hot opener. I forget sometimes how good the Shield was together. Even Roman was awesome. Yes, Roman was awesome. Not “awesome” awesome but deserves better than he’s gotten in the years since this awesome. 
Winners: Cody Rhodes & Goldust

Triple H and Shawn Michaels are talking backstage. Shawn Michaels looks like he’s pretending to laugh at Triple H’s jokes and when I read his lips it looks like he keeps saying, _“yes Hunter, you’re my best friend too”_ over and over.

The Miz comes out calls Bray Wyatt out for a fight. The lights go off and Wyatt appears on the screen and tells Miz his words mean less than salt to him. The lights come back on and the rest of the Wyatt Family is in the ring. They beat the Miz up but Kane comes to his rescue. After he’s taken care of the Wyatts he Chokeslams the Miz too.

WWE2K14 ad.

*Fandango & Summer Rae vs. the Great Khali & Natalya w/Hornswoggle*
I can’t put my finger on who was worse in the ring here: Summer Rae or the Great Khali? I mean one’s a lumbering doofus who had no business being in a wrestling ring and the WWE is better off without them. The other was the Great Khali. 
Winners: Fandango & Summer Rae (da fuck!?)

The kick-off panel (Josh Matthews, Dolph Ziggler, R-Truth and Kaitlyn) give their thoughts on the show so far. All two matches.

For the WWE United States Championship
*Dean Ambrose (champion) vs. Big E Langston*
I think the crowd was still so in awe of that last match that they needed to take a breath during this one. Big E took a head-butt under the eye towards the end that knocked him kind of silly so the ending was a bit of a mess. I felt bad for both of them. They worked hard but the crowd didn’t give a damn.
Winner: Big E Langston via countout

2 on 1 Handicapped Hell in a Cell Match
*CM Punk vs. Ryback & Paul Heyman*
This match started with Heyman taking a scissor lift to the top of the cell and taunting CM Punk. The match was slow and anticlimactic. Heyman never got off the top of the cage.
Winner: CM Punk
Afterwards Punk climbs to the top of the cell with kendo stick in hand and delivers a savage beating to Heyman.

Renee Young is backstage with Daniel Bryant, who wants a chance to prove he can be WWE champion. 

*Los Matadores w/el Torito vs. the Real Americans w/Zeb Coulter*
All things considered this wasn’t as bad as it could have been.
Winners: Los Matadores

For the World Heavyweight Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (champion) vs. John Cena*
I could feel the crowd was even tired of SuperCena at this point in time. It was the same match we’ve seen a million times and the same finish.
Winner: John Cena (new World Heavyweight Champion)

Back to the pre-show panel.

For the WWE Divas Championship
*AJ Lee (champion) w/Tamina vs. the Legendary Brie Bella w/the equally as Legendary Nikki Bella*
This was a match.
Winner: AJ Lee

The Prime Time Players are playing WWE2K14 when Bob Backlund comes in and “Bob Backlunds”. They sell him on the game and then do the money dance.

Triple H readies Shawn Michaels for his job refereeing tonight’s main event.

Hell in the Cell Match for the Vacant WWE Championship
Special Referee: Shawn Michaels
*Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryant*
This was actually not a bad match thanks to Daniel Bryant putting his body on the line but had another crap, corporate ending. I remember this storyline well and it was an important piece in the overall picture.
Winner: Randy Orton (new WWE Champion)
________________________________________________________________________________
I don’t know what happened with this show. Yes, the mixed tag team match was bad. But it was no worse than any other mixed tag team match seen throughout the years. The crowd just completely DIED after it though. I’m talking complete silence during the US Championship Match. Maybe something else happened that wasn’t shown on camera? Maybe the arena ran out of popcorn? The crowd woke up during the John Cena Match but then the Divas Championship Match took them right back out of it. The main event did bring them back quite a bit but Daniel Bryant was pretty much God at this point in time.

It was a decent show. The first match was good, the main event was good. Everything else was just “there”. 

It was October and pink had thrown up everywhere. I’m obviously not against the cause but WWE really overdid it here.

JBL was insufferable on commentary. Kaitlyn was pretty horrible too.

Fat Hulk Hogan guy was in the third or fourth row.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Just noticed the ASDA version of Wrestlemania 35 (DVD and Blu Ray) in the UK comes with a bonus disc containing NXT Takeover. Sweeeeet.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

*WWE Judgement Day 20/05/2007*

*Carlito vs. Ric Flair*
Old man Flair!! Shame it’s with Carlito, maybe one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. Not sure why people thought he was a star. He sucks. Anyway, Flair starts the match with his trademark chops so Carlito does the obvious thing and works on the left arm. Carlito tries to do keylock but he does it so poorly that it doesn’t look like he is putting any pressure on it. Flair sells it pretty well regardless and the fans cheer him on. In the process, Flair switches the chopping arm and goes with his right. Carlito continues on with his aimless armwork to almost no heat except a few woos here and there. Flair pops me a little by doing the Tenryu chop/punch spot before locking on the figure four for the win. And Flair stops selling the arm. Hilarious. Awful match that’s even more married down by an awful performance by Carlito. 1/2*

*Shawn Michaels Promo*
They show a replay of Orton punting HBK in the head before Orton attacks Michaels again. At least I know why they are fighting now. 

*ECW World Heavyweight Title Three On One Handicap Match - Shane McMahon, Umaga & Vince McMahon (c) vs. Bobby Lashley*
This was pretty short. The story of the match is Lashley goes after Vince but when he does, Umaga or Shane beats on him. That last two minutes before Lashley wins. Okay. After the match, Umaga destroys Lashley building towards a match at One Night Stand. **

*The Debut of the Concussion Face*
A short segment with the doctor telling Shawn that he can’t go out to the ring tonight.

*CM Punk vs. Elijah Burke*
Punk has heavily taped. Not sure why as there were no video packages telling us why. I highly doubt the ratings were good enough for ECW that you wouldn’t need a video telling PPV buyers what happened. They play up a Mixed Martial Arts background for Punk, which is hilarious in hindsight and a boxing background for Burke. Suddenly there are a ton of empty seats, Lol. The match starts out pretty good with Burke potatoing Punk with some stiff punches and Punk give Burke his receipt. The match loses its focus a bit with both guys seemingly abandoning the ribs story and they begin to do random moves to each other. But then the match picks up a bit with a lovely superplex of the top rope by Punk. Burke, all match. threw some wickedly awesome body punches and Punk sells them really well. The finish wasn’t great either but I liked it. Cut out the awful 5-minute section where they forget what they are doing and think they are doing an exhibition showing off their cool moves (that didn’t look so cool in execution) and you got a really great match. ***1/4

*Edge W/ Sharmell*
There was a pretty funny line where Sharmell said Edge has been on a pretty roll lately and Edge responds with it was more than a roll whilst air-quoting “roll”. If only Edge did more comedy in his promos because he is hilarious and just gets comedy. The rest of the promo was fine.

*Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels*
Randy Orton getting a huge pop makes me smile. They tease Orton winning by forfeit before Shawn Michaels sadly comes out. And look, he has brought his concussion face with him. He looks like he has a hangover after a night of drinking and speed tablets. He has fallen off the wagon and the refs let him wrestle SMH. Orton beats up Shawn Michaels and spikes him with a draping DDT. He stays alive though. And yep, he still has the concussion face. Orton looks to end it with an RKO before changing his mind. No, it’s not an act of passion, he goes to hit an RKO on the ropes. Shawn makes a short comeback before collapsing in the midst of hitting a superkick in hilarious fashion. The ref calls it. Well, it was short and mostly used for an angle. Not much more you can ask. Orton does an ultimate dick move and punts HBK one more time and leaves. ** 

*World Tag Team Title Match - The Hardys (Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy) (c) vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch*
Not sure why the SD commentators are commentating a Raw title match but whatever. The match follows up from their previous match at Backlash. The challengers work over the Hardys and go a fine job of doing it. Some clever work to keep control. Matt Hardy, for some reason, is feeling extra stiff with his strikes. I like it. Good finish for the Hardys wins too. Nice handshake to end the match. I expected Murdoch and Cade to attack them from behind afterwards but nope. A nice change. ***1/2

*World Heavyweight Title Match - Edge (c) vs. Batista*
There is a video package before the match highlighting Edge’s career so far. Ozzy Osbourne plays with it. Batista has a line. We move on. Not a huge fan of either guy but I’ll listen to both guys entrance music all day, Edge especially. Batista shows his smarts by running out and jumping about on the stage, all while having a taped up leg. I’m not going to call him out for bad selling because I think he just genuinely forgot about his leg. I’ll forgive him for it because aw. One thing about this match I really don’t get is the start of the match being structured about Batista injury his leg arm and Edge going after it when he has an injured leg right there. They even teased it with Batista running injured knee first into the stairs. And to make it funnier, they completely drop it almost instantly. The spot was Batista counters a spear by Edge with one of his own was pretty cool. The match rushed towards the finish however and after a few big Batista moves, Batista hits the spinebuster and sells his leg. It’s nice that he sold his leg but it came out of nowhere and the whole setup was illogical. Of course, it leads to Edge rolling up for the win. Awful finish to a rather inexplicable match. Edge hardly works on the leg, maybe once or twice, yet it leads into the finish. What?!!! Wrestling basics are just that, folks. DUD

*WWE United States Title Best Two Out Of Three Falls Match - Chris Benoit (c) vs. Montel Vontavious Porter*
Hmm, a two out of three falls match? Should be interesting. MVP did some interesting work on the knee of Benoit, going off Benoit having his knee beaten by Finlay last Smackdown. The work is a bit heatless though with the crowd not really caring too much for it but I like how it leads into the first fall finish of Benoit dropping MVP from an electric chair position into a position where MVP could hit the Playmaker. Benoit’s selling was great at least. Speaking of leg work, MVP uses the BROCK LOCK on Benoit no less. MVP takes advantage of the leg injury by blowing it to get out of a crossface and wins with a roll up to the shock of everyone. Benoit really put MVP over here, shame the crowd didn’t care a whole lot. ***

*WWE Heavyweight Title Match - John Cena (c) vs. The Great Khali*
Am I in for a Cena masterclass? Well, let’s find out. Our main event joke of the night by Jerry “Like I told my girlfriend, size does matter”. Oh, Jerry. Similar to the Umaga match, Cena does his stick and move approach with his body shots but Khali clobbers Cena with an almighty clothesline. Cena begins selling everything Khali does to him like a boss. Everything looks devastating, which is essential for someone the size of Khali. Cena gets a bad rap for no selling everything when on offence but right, he still is selling the damage when trying to get some offence in, allowing Khali to easily regain control. Jim Ross has his line of the night “he [Khali] is literally blocking out the sun”. Literally Jimmy? There is an awesome spot where Cena breaks out of a nerve grip and shoulder blocks Khali into the ropes, which he gets caught him. The crowd pops big too. The finish was great. Cena thinks on his feet when Khali is coming towards him on the outside and dropkicks the steps into Khali’s knee. Khali injuries his knee so when he gets in the ring, he struggles to get to his feet and Cena hits a dropkick off the top rope and locks in the STFU for the win. Khali’s foot was under the rope but that doesn't matter right now. The crowd go nuts for Cena. Great finish to a really good match. ***1/2

*Overall*
I think I like this show much more than most would. There were a few shite matches like the opener and Edge vs Batista. But the main event was good and the tag match too. A decent angle too, that’ll pay off come November. Good stuff. Best To Worst: John Cena (c) vs. The Great Khali - [***1/2]. The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - [***1/2]. CM Punk vs. Elijah Burke - [***1/4]. Chris Benoit vs. Montel Vontavious Porter - [***]. Shane McMahon, Umaga & Vince McMahon vs. Bobby Lashley - [**]. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - [**]. Carlito vs. Ric Flair - [1/2*]. Edge vs. Batista - [DUD]


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Backlash”
April 30th, 2000
From the MCI Center in Washington, DC
Commentators: Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler 

Tonight: the Rock has Stone Cold Steve Austin in his corner as he faces Triple H for the WWF Championship. However the odds are still stacked against the Rock because Vince McMahon is in Triple Hs corner and Shane McMahon is the special referee. Is Stone Cold really on the Rocks side? Will he even be there?

Also, six titles are on the line.

De-bra comes out to act as special guest ring announcer for the first match. My oldest son thought she did a great job.

For the WWF Tag Team Championships 
*D Generation-X w/Tori vs. Edge & Christian (champions)*
This was a really good match. X-Pac seemed a little out of it. He delivered the most _“who gives a fuck?”_ Bronco Buster I’ve ever seen. And the ending was pretty wonky. X-Pac bladed hard right at the end and there was blood all over the ring for the rest of the show. Seems like a lot of effort for zero reason.
Winners: Edge & Christian

The Rock arrives backstage.

For the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship
*Scotty 2 Hotty vs. Dean Malenko (champion)*
This was a good match but Dean Malenkos style didn’t really gel with the audience at the time. He’d have owned it in Ring of Honor five years later.
Winner: Dean Malenko

The McMahons are backstage with Pat Patterson and Gerald Briscoe. Vince tells them tonight it’s _“all hands on deck”_.

*The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan vs. the Acolytes*
Referee: TEDDY LONG, PLAYA
The Acolytes were in the midst of their transition to the A.P.A. at this time. This was a decent “big man match”. Pretty stiff.
Winners: the Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan 

The Hardy Boyz are backstage getting ready for their match.

Hardcore Holly and Crash are getting ready for their match.

For the WWF Hardcore Championship 
*Crash Holly (champion) vs. Tazz vs. Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Harvey vs. Hardcore Holly vs. Perry Saturn*
I think this match had some “Crash must be pinned to get the belt” stipulation or something. You know what? This was really fucking fun to watch. It did run a little too long though. The only sad thing about this was seeing Tazz reduced to it.
Winner: Crash Holly

Jonathan Coachman interviews Shane McMahon.

*Kurt Angle vs. the Big Show*
This was during some angle where the Big Show was joking around and cosplaying, so he came out dressed like Hulk Hogan and wrestled like Hulk Hogan. The shorts didn’t leave much to the imagination. His impersonation was spot-on but the match was not good.
Winner: the Big Show

Michael Cole interviews Trish Stratus and asks her how she really feels about Bubba Ray Dudley. Bubba is watching backstage on a monitor and he’s entranced by her.

Billy Corgan is in the front row.

*The Dudley Boyz vs. T&A w/Trish Stratus*
This was a fun match but nothing special.
Winners: T&A
Afterwards the Dudley Boyz are about to put Trish through a table but she starts making out with Bubba instead. He comes to his senses and does the right thing: he puts her through the table.

Eddie Guerrero and Chyna arrive. 

For the WWF European Championship
*Eddie Guerrero (champion) w/Chyna vs. Essa Rios w/Lita*
Essa Rios had pay per view matches?! This was a good match that deserved more time.
Winner: Eddie Guerrero 
Lita strips Chyna to her bra and panties but Chyna doesn’t seem phased.

Jonathan Coachman interviews Triple H and Vince McMahon. 

Michael Cole interviews Chris Benoit.

For the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (champion)*
This was a really good match.
Winner: Chris Benoit via disqualification

Michael Cole interviews the Rock.

For the WWF Championship
*Triple H (champion) w/Vince and Stephanie McMahon vs. the Rock*
Special Referee: Shane McMahon
This was a good match but it was overshadowed by “where is Stone Cold?” He’d been gone almost eight months by this time and the audience was salivating for him. The ending was an overbooked mess but as was every ending of the time. Stone Cold did come out and laid everyone in Triple Hs corner out, before Linda McMahon came out with Earl Hebner to make things fair. 
Winner: the Rock (new WWF Champion)
Stone Cold shares a beer with the Rock.
______________________________________________________________________
You know, I’m usually one of the first people that shits on the Attitude Era and its focus on tacky, over-booked storylines over in-ring competition. But I had a lot of fucking fun watching this show and the ring work was mostly really good. I do look at 2000 in a much different light than late-1998 or 1999. The tacky shit was still there (Trish Stratus, Bubba Ray Dudley putting women through tables, the Kings commentary) but I see 2000 as the year where it started tapering off. Vince Russo was gone by this point. 

Do I miss it? I do miss the overall electric excitement that shows had back then. I miss caring. But I don’t miss the style. I barely ever watch anything from this time so it was a nice change but it’s not something I plan on watching too often.

Watching a show before concussion protocol and wellness policies became a thing was kinda awkward but also entertaining. The guys all went all-out. Even Scotty 2 Hotty took a nasty DDT off the top rope. It’s unfortunate how most of these guys lives were ruined by this style of wrestling.

The only title not defended on this show: the Women’s Championship, which was held by Stephanie McMahon at the time.

I don’t know who “Falk” is, but according to a sign that was visible in the second row for the first few matches he is gay.

Overall it was a really good show. None of the matches were five-star classics but there weren’t any abominable duds either, except the Big Show verses Kurt Angle. The Stone Cold stuff was just a tease really. But the show didn’t even need him. It sort of changed my outlook on the era and brought back a lot of memories I’d forgotten.

Yeah, PG-13 was way better.













WWE “Elimination Chamber”
February 21st, 2010
From the Scottrade Center in St. Louis, Missouri 
Commentators: Michael Cole, Jerry Lawler and Matt Striker
Theme Song: Rise Up by Cypress Hill

Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE Championship
*John Cena vs. Ted Dibiase vs. Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Sheamus (champion)*
This was a good match. Everyone looked really good. 
Winner: John Cena (new WWE Champion)

As soon as the match is over Vince McMahon tells John Cena he has to defend the WWE Championship against Batista…RIGHT NOW

For the WWE Championship
*John Cena (champion) vs. Batista*
This went as expected. Wait, it was Cena going up against the odds. This went the total different direction I expected it to.
Winner: Batista (new WWE champion)

Recap of Bret Hart’s car accident at Raw last Monday.

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Drew McIntyre (champion) vs. Kane*
This match did a great job of completely killing the crowd. Drew McIntyre looked like a thirteen year-old. 
Winner: Drew McIntyre

Gail Kim is walking backstage when Maryse comes up to her and says a bunch of stuff in French. Gail informs her that she can speak French.

Gail Kim and Maryse come out for the final match for the WWE Divas Championship Tournament but Vickie Guerrero decides to postpone it and make a Tag Team Match, PLAYA.

*Maryse & Gail Kim vs. LayCool*
...yeah.
Winner: LayCool

Josh Matthews promotes the new show NXT, which starts this Tuesday. He brings out the Miz, who will be mentoring some guy named “Daniel Bryant”. MVP comes out and tells the Miz to get ready for their match.

William Regal comes out and promotes NXT. Edge comes out and Spears him.

For the WWE United States Championship 
*The Miz (champion) w/the Big Show vs. MVP w/Mark Henry*
The other night I was watching a current WWE pay per view (Money in the Bank 2019) and something dawned on me: I have always hated the Miz. He’s terrible. He’s annoying. I just want to see him lose. 
Winner: the Miz

Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Championship
*Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. Chris Jericho vs. the Undertaker (champion) vs. CM Punk vs. R-Truth*
I liked the Undertaker playing a more uncaged, angry character here than the usual walking corpse. He should have done that more often. He was scarier. This was good but I DID NOT like the ending when Shawn Michaels broke into the cage and cost the Undertaker the match.
Winner: Chris Jericho (new World Heavyweight Champion)
_______________________________________________________________________________
The Elimination Chamber matches on this show were good but the undercard was pretty weak. The crowd was dead too. But I can solely put the blame on that being the wrong Elimination Chamber Match going on first. The ending of the first one with Batista really drained the crowd of all their life and energy way too early. 

A lot of the going ons in this show like Batista getting the immediate title show, whatever was going on with the Divas and the “new” show NXT really don’t lend themselves to watching the show nine years later and not being familiar with all the storylines. I even had to think for a second what the deal with Shawn Michaels coming out was all about, then I remembered that he and the Undertaker had a match a month later at Wrestlemania. 

I found out after watching this show that the Undertaker was engulfed in flames and burnt three times during his entrance due to a pyrotechnics accident. That…sort of explains why he came into the match looking much angrier than usual.

Pass.














“United We Slam: the Best of the Great American Bash”
Hosted by Dusty Rhodes

From Charlotte, North Carolina on July 1985
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship 
*Nikita Koloff w/Ivan Koloff vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
There was canned commentary from Dusty Rhodes and Larry Zbyszko during this match and it took me out of it right from the get go. It was a good match but they didn’t even really talk about the match itself too much so I wasn’t paying attention. They were really critical of Nikita and his skill set in the ring. That was kinda funny. Actually, they were both really good but their commentary had nothing to do with the match. What I did pay attention to of the match was good. A fan ran into the ring.
Winner: Ric Flair

From Greensborough, North Carolina in July 1986
To determine the number one contenders for the NWA World Tag Team Championships
*Ole Anderson & Arn Anderson vs. the Rock and Roll Express*
There was canned commentary in this match too but it was actually really good. It focused a bit more on the match, which itself was pretty good.
Winners: time expires

From Charlotte, North Carolina on July 26th, 1986
Steel Cage Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
There was post-recorded commentary for this match but it was more along the lines of the type I hate. It was Dusty Rhodes, Michael Graham and some WWE talking head (I never caught his name) and it was torture. I think it was recorded years before this DVD came out because Michael Graham died in 2012, the DVD came out in 2015. The match was really good.
Winner: Dusty Rhodes (new NWA World Heavyweight Champion)

From Atlanta, Georgia in July 1987
War Games
*The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Lex Luger and JJ Dillon) vs. Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, the Road Warriors & Paul Elring*
The original commentary was used during this match but it was such poor quality I almost wished they’d have piped a clueless Michael Cole and Abraham Washington in. I’m not a huge fan of War Games matches and this is one of my least favourite.
Winners: Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, the Road Warriors & Paul Elring

From Charlotte, North Carolina in July 1988
*The Road Warriors w/Paul Ellering vs. Sting & Lex Luger*
This was good.
Winners: double count out 

From Baltimore, Maryland on July 23rd, 1989
For the WCW Unites States Championship 
*The Great Muta w/Gary Hart vs. Sting (champion) w/Eddie Gilbert*
My attention waned for a few minutes during this one and then it match was over. Disappointing.
Winner: double pin

From Baltimore, Maryland on July 23rd, 1989
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Terry Funk w/Gary Hart vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
This was a good match but another I think could’ve gone way longer.
Winner: Ric Flair
After the match the Great Muta attacks Flair and spits green mist in his face. The combination of blood and mist covering Flair make for quite the visual.

From Baltimore, Maryland on July 7th, 1990
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship 
*Sting w/rat-tail vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
This was a good match but Stings rat-tail was better.
Winner: Sting (new NWA World Heavyweight Champion)

From Baltimore, Maryland on July 7th, 1990
*The Freebirds vs. the Steiner Brothers*
The Freebirds looked stupid here. I don’t know much about their history but what the hell happened to them? What’s up with the makeup? This was a good match.
Winners: the Steiner Brothers

From Albany, Georgia on July 12th, 1992
Quarter Final Match in the Tournament for the NWA Tag Team Championships
*Rick Rude & Steve Austin w/Medusa vs. Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham*
I couldn’t take my eyes off this guy in the front rows incredible neon yellow hat during this match. I tried snapping a picture but he took it off in the first few minutes; as if he knew that twenty-five years later a fat old dude would be sitting in his basement mocking him on some message board. This was a good match but it felt to me like it went on five minutes too long.
Winner: Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham

From Albany, Georgia on July 12th, 1992
For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Vader w/Harley Race vs. Sting (champion)*
This was a good match but my attention again waned.
Winner: Vader (new WCW World Heavyweight Champion)

From Dayton, Ohio on June 18th, 1995
Ric Flair vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage w/Angelo Poffo
This was a really good match. There was a lot of added rage with Savage wanting to get redemption for his father.
Winner: Ric Flair

June 16th, 1996: Eric Bischoff gives the Outsiders their answer: they’re getting their match at Bash at the Beach on July 7th, 1996. The Outsiders ask who WCWs three men will be? Bischoff can’t tell them so he gets Powerbombed off the stage. I’m interested at how this angle played out.

From Moline, Illinois on June 15th, 1997
“Anything Goes”
*“Macho Man” Randy Savage w/Miss Elizabeth vs. Diamond Dallas Page w/Kimberly*
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times before; Elizabeth was so hot in WCW. So hot! This was another good brawling match until the end when it became another nWo finish.
Winner: “Macho Man” Randy Savage

From Moline, Illinois on June 15th, 1997
*Psychosis w/Sunny Ohno vs. Ultimate Dragon*
This was a really good match. Ultimo Dragon was really damn good but so was Psychosis. I bet in a better environment these two could have a wicked match. I bet they have but I don’t know how to find it.
Winner: Ultimate Dragon

From Baltimore, Maryland on June 14th, 1998
*Chaco Guerrero Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero*
This was a good match but I found the camera angles really annoying. They were at least on the wrestling (Kevin Dunn) but there were to man close, “in your face” angles. The crowd was totally not interested in this match. They started chanting “we want Flair” and singing the “na-na-na-na, goodbye” song during parts.
Winner: Chavo Guerrero Jr.

From Baltimore, Maryland on June 14th, 1998
For the vacant WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko*
This was a decent match and at least the crowd was interested in this one. If the ending was any indication I think these two had much more intense matches later on.
Winner: Chris Jericho via disqualification 

From Baltimore, Maryland on June 14th, 1998
*“Macho Man” Randy Savage & Rowdy Roddy Piper vs. Hollywood Hogan & Bret Hart w/the Disciple*
This wasn’t that great. I was expecting a turn from Randy Savage.
Winners: Hollywood Hogan & Bret Hart

Ambulance Match
From Baltimore, Maryland on June 11th, 2000
*Mike Awesome vs. Diamond Dallas Page w/Chris Kanyon*
This was a really weak ambulance match (as opposed to all those awesome ambulance matches I’ve seen) with some serious overbooking.
Winner: Mike Awesome

June 11th, 2000
For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship 
*Kevin Nash vs. Jeff Jarrett (champion)*
Special Guest Bell Ringer: Konnan
Special Guest Timekeeper: Rey Mysterio Jr.
Special Guest Belt Keeper: Disqo
Special Guest Ring Announcer: Juventud Guererra
Special Guest Enforcer and Secondary Referee: the Cat
This wasn’t too bad. Much like every last match on a WCW DVD set it just made me sad. But unlike past years watching this today (2019) isn’t as sad as watching current WWE. It was cool when they went into the crowd but a little silly whenever the Filthy Animals got involved. It really fell apart in the final minutes.
Winner: Jeff Jarrett
_____________________________________________________________________
I really didn’t enjoy this set that much and I don’t know why that was. I know the newly recorded commentary on the entire first disc totally took me out of every one of the matches. It took me almost eight months to work my way through this. I bought it in October or November 2018. It just never interested me like other sets do.

I swear I must have seen the 1989 Great American Bash in full sometime. Those two matches were really familiar.

There was so much canned music and doctored audio on this set. 

God love Dusty Rhodes but his creations (War Games, the Great American Bash) really weren’t anything too special. I think the only person who really got excited over them was him.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I heard the only match worth watching from Money in the Bank was Styles/Rollins so I just finished watching that. Firstly.... that video package, God damn. Why do I even get surprised any more? This is one thing WWE does better than anyone. 

In terms of the match, is it true that this is the first time Seth and Styles have had a one on one match? That seems crazy to me with how quickly WWE burns through feuds, although I guess they have always been on separate brands. I did like though how they made that part of the story of their match. It was no TakeOver Main Event, the match was far too slow but it was certainly an above average match in the context of MR limitations. I liked the little post match angle and the Curb Stomp reversal into the Styles Clash was awesome.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Backlash”
May 6th, 2018
From the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey
Commentators: Michael Cole, Corey Graves and Jonathan Coachman (Raw); Tom Phillips, Byron Saxton and Corey Graves (Smackdown Live!)

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship 
*The Miz vs. Seth Rollins (champion)*
This was a really good match, as good a match as you’re ever going to see the Miz have. It’s possibly the best match I’ve seen Seth have too. I’m impressed.
Winner: Seth Rollins

For the WWE Raw Women’s Championship
*Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax (champion)*
I cannot feel sympathetic to Nia Jax in any way. And I like her. She just can’t work as a face. And Alexa Bliss...she’s mark-wank trash. I enjoyed Nia rag dolling Bliss but this was not good and it went about seven minutes too long.
Winner: Nia Jax 
Renee Young interviewers Nia in the ring. Feel good moment!!!

BE A STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce Prichard podcast ad.

Recap of Roman Reigns Spearing Brock Lesnar through the cage at the Greatest Royal Rumble a week earlier.

Some girl is backstage with Samoa Joe. He says he's going to turn the Big Dog into a whimpering puppy.

For the WWE United States Championship
*Randy Orton vs. Jeff Harvey (champion)*
This was a match that happened.
Winner: Jeff Harvey

“Please don’t try this at home” ad.

Elias comes out to do his thing but is interrupted by the New Day, Rusev Day and Bobby Roode.

*Daniel Bryant vs. Big cAss*
This was uneventful.
Winner: Daniel Bryant

For the WWE Smackdown Live! Women’s Championship 
*Charlotte Flair w/o Balloon Implants vs. Carmella (champion*)
Wow, as bad as Alexa Bliss is Carmella is ten times worse. I still enjoyed Charlotte at this point and had no problem rooting for her in this match. She worked circles around Carmella but this was an abomination because Carmella was in control for most of the match.
Winner: Carmella

No Disqualifications Match for the WWE Championship
*Shinsuke Nakamura vs. AJ Styles (champion)*
The stipulation was only in this match to accommodate that stupid Low Blow gimmick Nakamura had at the time. There were multiple low blows then the referee called the belt when neither could answer the ten count.
Winner: no contest 

*Braun Strowman & Lashley vs. Sami Zayn & Kevin Owens*
This was filler at its finest. Its only purpose was to build Braun Strowman as an unstoppable monster who would go on to lose every big match he had for the rest of 2018.
Winners: Braun Strowman & Lashley

*Samoa Joe vs. Roman Reigns*
The crowd was firmly behind Joe at the start of this match but quickly turned on it. It’s hard not to blame them. The first half was a couple long rest holds and a few short flourishes of excitement. Joe dominated almost the entire match until...well, you know. It was probably worse than those classic SuperCena matches because at least the crowd weren’t getting up and leaving during those.
Winner: Roman Reigns
___________________________________________________________________________
This was one of the first marathon pay per views and it DID NOT need to be three and a half hours long. Either of the women’s matches, the United States championship match, the Tag Team Match and the Elias segment could’ve been on Raw or Smackdown Live! that week. At least two of those should have been cut. Plus the first match was so good that everything afterwards had no interest. It’s good that they put it on first through because a tired, bored crowd didn’t deserve that match.

Long haired fan in the front row looked extra stupid tonight.















WWE “Judgment Day”
May 17th, 2009
From the Allstate Arena in Chicago, Illinois 
Commentators: Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler (Raw), Jim Ross and Todd Grisham (Smackdown), Josh Mathews and Matt Striker (ECW)
Theme Song: Rescue Me by Buckcherry

*CM Punk vs. Umaga*
Umaga really just dominated Punk in this match. The only person I’ve ever seen dominate Punk like this was Mickey Gall. It was strange.
Winner: Umaga

Chavo Guerrero informs Vickie Guerrero that John Cena has been cleared to wrestle the Big Show tonight. The Big Show says it’s probably not good for business that Cena wrestle him. Edge comes in and doesn’t say anything.

For the ECW Championship
*Jack Swagger vs. Christian (champion)*
This was a bland as bland can be then *boom* it was over.
Winner: Christian

Edge leaves Vickie Guerrero’s dressing room and tells Chavo off.

*Shelton Benjamin w/Charlie Haas vs. John Morrison*
This was a good match but it just wasn’t the right time for it to happen. In any other promotion it would’ve gone over much better.
Winner: John Morrison

The Miz (possibly at his most annoying) comes out and calls John Cena out. Cena doesn’t answer so he insults local sports teams and calls out a substitute: some baseball player sitting in the front row. The baseball player doesn’t come to the ring so the Miz declares himself the winner of whatever the hell this was. Santino Marella comes out and does his shtick, which was way more entertaining than the Miz. In the end it doesn’t go so well for poor Santino. After the Miz leaves Chavo Guerrero comes out and Frog Splashes Santino.

Josh Mathews is with Chris Jericho, who feels there is a controversy against him.

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Rey Mysterio (champion) vs. Chris Jericho*
This was a good match. 
Winner: Rey Mysterio

For the WWE Championship
*Randy Orton (champion) vs. Batista*
This was okay but I find Orton in 2009 really earns the name “Borton”.
Winner: Batista via disqualification 
Afterwards the rest Legacy attack Batista but Ric Flair comes to his rescue.

“Please Don’t Try This at Home” 

*The Big Show vs. John Cena*
It’s incredible how in every show I watch from this era John Cenas matches are more eye rolling. This may have been the most face-palm worthy yet. He got pummelled for almost the entire match only to overcome the odds at the very end with an Attitude Adjustment. The only positive to this one was he at least wasn’t in the championship match. 
Winner: John Cena

For the World Heavyweight Championship
*Edge (champion) vs. Jeff Harvey*
I was done with the show by this point. It was a decent match.
Winner: Edge
___________________________________________________________________________
This show was crap. It didn’t even feel like a “b show”. So much was filler and even the main matches felt like they were just there to give everyone something to do. I checked the time during the Intercontinental Championship Match thinking it was well passed the halfway point of the show and it had only been an hour and fifteen minutes. It seems like they saved all the exciting stuff for the following months Extreme Rules pay per view (both titles changed hands and CM Punk cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase). By the end of its run Judgment Day had a bad habit of being a really boring pay per view. I remember 2008’s was really boring too.

I will say the roster was especially stacked at this time. They had a full card with zero tag teams, only one lower card match and no Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker.

So the whole story with Edge and Vickie Guerrero was they were “married” at the time and were having marital problems.

I don’t know what happened but the WWE Network in Canada (which is notoriously crap) must be changing its content this week because we have a grand total of six pay per views to choose from right now: three Judgment Days, Wrestlemanias 35 and 25 and one Fastlane. We had maybe thirty last week. This unemployment I’m currently suffering from better end soon.

I’m still standing by my beliefs that John Cena was worse than Roman Reigns.


----------



## BigRedMachineKane (Jun 3, 2019)

Hi guys. I wanted to post this as a thread but I cant until I have 25 posts. I want to watch WCW on the WWE Network because I was always a WWE guy and have never actually sat down and watched WCW from the start. I'm wondering what would be a good point to start for the Monday Night Wars, and would I get away with just watching Nitro?? Would I need to watch WCW Thunder as well?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this upped on YT






HBK vs Owen Hart from the Kuwait Cup in May '96. Not sure it's been released officially as I don't think I've seen it before.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

Triple H and Stephanie McMahon come out and welcome everyone to the show. They also guarantee there will be no interference in any matches tonight.








WWE “Survivor Series”
November 24th, 2013
From the TD Garden in Boston, Massachusetts 
Commentators: Michael Cole, Jerry Lawler and JBL
Theme Song: _How I Feel_ by FLO RIDA!!

Five on Five Elimination Match
*Rey Mysterio, Goldust, Cody Rhodes & the Usos vs. Jack Swagger, Cesaro & the Shield w/Zeb Coulter*
This was a really good match and everyone looked really good. Swagger, Cesaro and Ambrose went out a bit too early though. Reigns and Rollins looked like gold. It’s hilarious how over Roman Reigns was here. But you could already see the seeds of a Superman push being planted. 
Survivor: Roman Reigns

The Authority are backstage and Randy Orton comes in and demands respect. He also wants to confirm there will be no interference in matches tonight. He seems worried about having to defend the WWE Championship against the Big Show. 

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Curtis Axel vs. Big E Langston (champion)*
Damn, Big E was fucking jacked here. His pecks were massive. This was a good match but it fell of deaf ears.
Winner: Big E Langston
Afterwards Big E cuts a pretty bad promo playing too hard to the crowd.

AJ Lee drops a huge *PIPE BOMB*. No, she just cuts a semi-psychotic promo putting down her Survivor Series teammates. She says they don’t deserve to be on Total Divas, which has new episodes on the E! Network.

Seven on Seven Elimination Match 
*Total Divas (the Legendary Bellas, Natalya, JoJo, Cameron, Naomi and Eva Marie) vs. AJ Lee, Aksana, Tamina, Alicia Fox, Kaitlyn, Summer Rae & Rosa Mendez*
There were certainly some vacuums in this one. It was rapid-fire eliminations and almost no tags. I can’t even say who looked best or worst because they all got out so quickly. Naomi, Tamina and Natalya looked pretty good. Nikki Bella looked good but Legends seldom don’t. Eva Marie and Summer Rae didn’t even have tome to look like garbage. I didn’t even know JoJjo ever wrestled. 
Survivors: Natalya and the Legendary Nikki Bella

Randy Orton is backstage and he tells referee Charles Robinson (who is officiating his match tonight) to call it fair tonight, *wink-wink*. 

The Kick-off Panel (Josh Mathews, Mick Foley, Booked T and Bret Hart) are about to give their thoughts on the show when Ryback comes out and cuts them off. He says they won’t do anything about him because they’re cowards. He issues an open challenge to anyone in the back to come out and make a name for themselves. It’s answered by...MARK HENRY!

*Ryback vs. Mark Henry*
This really was not good and the crowd was stunned silent.
Winner: Mark Henry

The pre-show panel give their thoughts.

For the World Heavyweight Championship 
*Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena (champion)*
This was more even than the usual John Cena Match. Cena actually got some offence in, instead of getting his ass kicked for fifteen minutes only to overcome the odds at the last moment. 
Winner: John Cena

Santino and R-Truth are backstage playing with WWE toys when el Matadors, el Torito, Fandango and John Laurentits come in to play with them.

*CM Punk & Daniel Bryant vs. the Wyatt Family w/Bray Wyatt*
...the Wyatt Family blow.

Watching this made me chuckle. It reminded me of that time when the WWE wanted the main events to be Orton and Cena but the fans wanted Bryant, so the WWE stuck Bryant in meaningless feuds with the Wyatts. Winter 2014 was a hilarious time. This was good whenever Harper was in the ring. Rowan really isn’t that great.
Winners: CM Punk & Daniel Bryant

For the WWE Championship
*The Big Show vs. Randy Orton (champion)*
This was what you’d expect. There were a few audible “we want Bryant” chants and some booing when a few didn’t quite work out.
Winner: Randy Orton

John Cena comes out and stares Randy Orton down.
____________________________________________________________________________________
This was a decent show but the crowd died after the first match, again. I can’t blame them with the promise of a main event featuring Randy Orton and...the Big Show...and the Authority in their “prime”. Late-2013 to early-2104 was such a hilariously terrible time in the WWE and the beginning of the current backlash.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Royal Rumble”
January 30th, 2005
From the Save Mart Center in Fresno, California 
Commentators: Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler (Raw), Michael Cole and Tazz (Smackdown), Jim Ross and Taz (the Royal Rumble (fuck you, Michael Cole))

*Edge vs. Shawn Michaels*
This was a decent match. There was some decent grudge backstory between the two. Edges matches always bored me until their final five or six minutes and this was no different.
Winner: Edge

Eric Bischoff and Teddy Long are backstage in the Royal Rumble Number drawing room discussing whether a Raw star or a Smackdown star will win the Royal Rumble. Ric Flair and Eddie Guerrero come in to draw their numbers. Flair goes first and seems happy with his number. Eddie doesn’t seem too happy with his number so he hugs Flair and wishes him luck. Flair takes another look at his number...and he’s not happy. GUERRERO STOLE HIS NUMBER!!!

John Heidenreich is backstage fretting about his Casket Match with the Undertaker. Gene Snitzky comes in and tells him he likes him. John says he likes him too. Snitzky has an idea for Heidenreichs match.

Casket Match
*Heidenreich vs. the Undertaker*
This wasn’t very good at all. I didn’t like commentaries lines trying to build Heidenreich as one of the Undertakers “mortal enemies”. Heidenreich doesn’t even register as a blip on the Undertakers radar, let alone the WWEs. Snitzky did interfere on Heidenreichs behalf but then Kane (Snitzkys “arch enemy”) popped out of the casket to even the odds. I remember rumours of a Tag Team Match happening at Wrestlemania that year but it never happened. 
I’m not sure if Heidenreich pinning the Undertaker at the end was intentional or not?
Winner: the Undertaker

Teddy Long is trying to get Eddie Guerrero to return Ric Flairs number. Evolution storm in and Eddie gives the number back...and Flairs wallet. Batista goes to leave to get his number for the Royal Rumble but Triple H tells him that taking care of Randy Orton is more important. Batistas eyes show a man who is not happy.

Christian, Tyson Tomko and John Cena get their Royal Rumble numbers. Christian isn't impressed by Cena so he challenges him to an impromptu rap battle. Christian doesn’t do too bad. Cena roasts him pretty good though.

For the WWE Championship
*Kurt Angle vs. the Big Show vs. JBL (champion)*
It’s been fifteen years and I still can’t believe that JBL was WWE Champion. It’s still strange to me. This was good but I would’ve liked it much more if it was a no holds barred, no disqualification type match.
Winner: JBL

Batista is walking backstage when Carlito Caribbean Cool asks him to sign a petition to remove Teddy Long as Smackdown General Manager. Batista says “no” and goes to get his Royal Rumble Number. While doing that he overhears Eric Bischoff banning Evolution from ringside of the World Heavyweight Championship Match. Batista doesn’t seem too upset over that. In fact, he seems happy.

For the World Heavyweight Championship
*Randy Orton vs. Triple H (champion)*
Fuck, I miss Ortons Mercy Drive entrance. That was an entrance. That was also all I cared about happening in this match. Fuck the Reign of Terror and fuck Triple H.
Winner: Triple H

Nunzio is walking backstage with his Royal Rumble Number but Kurt Angle steals it from him.

JBL and his cabinet crash the General Managers room. They're riding high after JBLs victory. Teddy Long informs JBL that his next title defence will be against the Big Show in a Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match at No Way Out. That spoils the party.

The Royal Rumble 
*Featuring: Batista, Booker T, Charlie Haas, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Christian, Daniel Puder, Eddie Guerrero, Edge, Gene Snitzky, Hardcore Holly, the Hurricane, John Cena, Jonathan Coachman, Kane, Kenzo Suzuki, Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns, Mark Jindrak, Muhammad Hassan, Orlando Jordan, Paul London, René Duprée, Rey Mysterio, Ric Flair, Scotty 2 Hotty, Shawn Michaels, Shelton Benjamin, Simon Dean and Viscera*
There were some epic spots in here: Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit being the first two entrants and working magic with one another (the whole match should have been them immediately tossing out whoever came out and then just going back to each other), Daniel Puder getting his ass handed to him by Guerrero, Benoit and Hardcore Holly, the Raw and Smackdown guys momentarily putting their differences aside and throwing Muhammad Hassan out (that guy should have been a top heel for years)...and Vince McMahon blowing both his quads out then sitting in the ring yelling orders to restart the match after the double-elimination of John Cena and Batista. I’ve always been partial to the 2004 Royal Rumble myself but this one is really damn good too. My only problem was the guys came in every minute (which didn’t give certain things enough time to properly settle in) and the middle entrants were all pretty low-tier. The building was *FUCKING NUCLEAR* by the end.
Winner: Batista
_____________________________________________________________________________________
There were some classic backstage segments on this show: Eddie stealing Flairs Number, Snitzky and Heidenreich being fucking creepy, Batista just being cool. I thought Maria’s classic “the Edge” line was also on this show but I guess that was some other show? Then there’s the timeless image of Vince sitting the ring after blowing out his quads. Not to mention the classic beating of Daniel Puder in the Royal Rumble. It’s usually a bad sign when the matches are the least memorable part of a show but those were all moments that have been imbedded in the history of wrestling. The undercard matches were all solid, except the Casket Match. And the Rumble itself was really damn good. I was actually smiling when I watched it. This is worth checking out again.

The breakup of Evolution was some good storytelling.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Summerslam”
August 30th, 1998
From Madison Square Gardens in New York City, New York
Commentators: Jim Ross and Jerry “the King Lawler

For the WWF European Championship
*Val Venis vs. D-Lo Brown (champion)*
This was a better match than I’ve ever seen Val Venis have. I have seen D-Lo have some really good matches in Ring of Honor. But this was a good, solid opener. D-Lo did drop Val on his head when he botched a Powerbomb towards the end and it was kinda eerie to watch considering what happened to Droz a year after this.
Winner: D-Lo Brown via disqualification 

Michael Cole and Mankind are by a hearse that Stone Cold Steve Austin destroyed earlier in the evening. Austin apparently thought the Undertaker and Kane were in the hearse. They weren’t. It was just Mankind’s rental.

Whoop-Whoop, the Insane Clown Posse and the Oddities come out to “entertain” the crowd. 

3 on 4 Handicapped Match
*The Oddities w/Luna and the Insane Clown Posse vs. Kai En Tai w/Yamaguchi-san*
This was terrible and went ten minutes longer than it needed to. I think the Oddities could have had passable matches (for someone his size John Tenta was very good) but they got caught up in comedy stuff.
Winners: the Oddities

Hair verses Hair Match
*Jeff Jarrett w/Southern Justice vs. X-Pac w/Howard Finkle*
This was another surprisingly good match. When you get caught up in the X-Pac character sucking so much balls it’s easy to forget he was a competent wrestler.
Winner: X-Pac
The Billy Gunn, the Road Dogg, Droz and the Headbangers come out to partake in the festivities of shaving Double J’s head.

Dok Hendrix is by the Lion Den for the Lions Den Match between Ken Shamrock and Owen Hart later tonight.

Michael Cole is with The Rock, who is defending the Intercontinental Championship in a Ladder Match against Triple H later tonight.

*Marc Mero & Jacqueline vs. Sable & Edge*
This was a good inter-gender Tag Team Match.
Winners: Sable & Edge

Michael Cole is with Mankind, who has to decide whether or not to defend the WWF Tag Team Championships by himself since Kane is apparently not at the venue. Vince McMahon gives him a pep talk and an idea that he’ll be in the Madison Square Garden Hall of Fame if he defends the titles by himself.

Lions Den Match
*Owen Hart w/Dan “the Beast” Severn vs. Ken Shamrock*
These two put on as good a match as you could expect in a ten foot round cage. It was better than UFC and really wasn’t that bad at all.
Winner: Ken Shamrock

Michael Cole is with Stone Cold Steve Austin, who respects the Undertaker but will do whatever it takes to win tonight.

No Holds Barred, Pinfalls Count Anywhere Match for the WWF Tag Team Championships
*Mankind (champion(s)) vs. the New Age Outlaws*
This really wasn’t too good.
Winners: the New Age Outlaws (new WWF Tag Team Champions)
After the match is over the Outlaws throw Mankind into a dumpster they had wheeled out to ringside. But then Kane (Mankind’s Tag Team partner) comes out of the dumpster and beats Mankind up then wheels the dumpster backstage.

The DX Band comes out to perform the DX song.

Ladder Match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Triple H w/Chyna vs. the Rock (champion) w/Mark Henry*
This wasn’t a very bad match at all. Very good actually. I did recently watch that “Wrestling isn’t wrestling” video from a few years ago and it was hard to watch Triple H here and not chuckle at him. But this was probably better than Shawn Michaels Ladder match with Razor Ramon, which I’ve never really concerted myself with. 
Winner: Triple H (new WWF Intercontinental Champion)

Home Video Exclusive footage of the Rock telling Triple H that payback is a bitch.

For the WWF Championship
*The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (champion)*
It was incredible watching Austin and especially the Undertaker putting their body’s through Hell during this. Austin must have fucked his back up large flying out of the ring at one point and the Undertaker did a leg drop from the top rope onto the announce table that he probably still feels today. A man his size shouldn’t do things like that. This was a good MATCH. No Vince McMahon coming out at the end screwing Austin over. No Ministry of Darkness. Kane did come out towards the beginning but he didn’t really have any effect on the match.
Winner: Stone Cold Steve Austin
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Nowadays it’s popular to shit on the Attitude Era and its focus on stupid storylines over wrestling. I’ll admit to doing it because a lot of times it's warranted. But this show was damn good and had some good *wrestling*. There wasn’t any tacking sex shit aside from a short promo by Val Venis before his match. Even Sable was wearing a modest t-shirt that looked two sizes too big for her. No massive, overbooked run-ins at the end of any matches. Except the hair verses hair match but that was after the match and made sense. It was quite refreshing.

The only matches that WEREN’T any good were the two Handicapped matches. The only other problem I can point out is that I have the Summerslam Anthology version, which I think came out in 2008. The WWEs music editing wasn’t that good at the time (not that it’s any better now) and they still blurred out the “F” in “WWF”. It wasn’t as distracting as videos from years before this but it was still bad.

Vlad and Faith No More Guy? Yes! 

Highly recommend.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW/Slim Jims “Halloween Havoc”
October 26th, 1997
From the MGM Grande Arena in Paradise, Nevada 
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Bobby “the Brain” Heenan, Dusty Rhodes and (for the first three matches) Mike Teney 

Tonight: Hollywood Hulk Hogan verses Rowdy Roddy Piper in a Steel Cage.

*Yuji Nagata w/Sonny Onoo vs. Ultimo Dragon*
Ultimo Dragon was really damn good but I don’t need to tell you that. This was a good match where they really sold Dragons arm being injured very well.
Winner: Yuji Nagata

Disco Inferno is ready to fight a woman tonight and even though he can’t hit her he vows to win. Jacquelyn attacks him.

*Gedo vs. Chris Jericho*
Damn, they botched a Frankensteiner so bad in this one. Yikes. The commentators tried to sell it as a block by Gedo. Yeah, sure. Okay match.
Winner: Chris Jericho

Mean Gene Okerlund is with Debra McMichael, whose job is at stake tonight when whoever she chooses to take on Steve McMichael faces Steve McMichael. She looked a lot better here then she ever did in the WWF. 

Mask verses Title
For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (champion)*
This match was both sloppy and beautiful. These two always worked so well together and it was even better in these days when Rey could really go. I think this may be the best match I’ve seen Rey Mysterio have.
Winner: Rey Mysterio Jr. (new WCW Cruiserweight Champion)

Mean Gene Okerlund says a certain cliq backstage may add another member to their ranks tonight. He can’t talk about it but if you call the WCW hotline you may find out.

Hollywood Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff say that due to WCW failing to provide a safe working environment (for both them AND the fans) Hogan will not wrestle tonight unless they give them a written contract guaranteeing that Sting will not be in the building tonight.

*Steve McMichael vs. Alex Wright w/Debra McMichael*
The commentators were more concerned with talking about what Hogan and Bischoff just announced rather than this match. I think they mentioned this match once or twice. I’m not even sure if Debras job was indeed on the line or not. This did get some excitment when Goldberg ran out and took Steve McMichael out.
Winner: Alex Wright
Afterwards Debra gave Goldberg Steve McMichael’s Super Bowl Ring. Then Goldberg took Alex Wright out too.

Randy Savage and Miss Elizabeth are ready for Diamond Dallas Page and the Las Vegas Sudden Death Match later tonight.

Non-Sanctioned Match
*Disco Inferno vs. Jacquelyn*
Jacquelyns wig here was brutal. The match was not good because Disco refused to hit her. So it was a lot of stalling and jumping out of the ring. I do like Jacquelyn though. Unlike so many other women wrestlers (past and current) she’s one of the few who you could tell always really wanted to be there.
Winner: Jacquelyn

*Curt Hennig vs. Ric Flair*
I’m sure it has happened but I’ve never seen Ric Flair run out to the ring and just throw his robe off the side before. Zero pomp. I guess the anger here was due to Hennig turning his back on WCW and the Four Horsemen. Flair probably would have been even more pissed if he knew that within a year Steve McMichael would be in the Four Horsemen.
Winner: Curt Hennig via disqualification

Randy Savage is on the WCW Live Wire live internet chat.

JJ Dillon is with Mean Gene Okerlund and he says that Hollywood Hulk Hogan’s match against Rowdy Roddy Piper WILL HAPPEN as advertised. An unhappy Eric Bischoff comes out but Dillon presents him with a written contract saying Hogan HAS to wrestle.

Scott Hall w/Syxx-Pac vs. Lex Luger
*Special Guest Referee: Larry Zybyzko*
This wasn’t too bad a match. It got a bit crazy at the end.
Winner: Lex Luger

Las Vegas Sudden Death Match (basically a Last Man Standing Match)
*“Macho Man” Randy Savage w/Miss Elizabeth vs. Diamond Dallas Page*
They should have just called the Last Man Standing match a “Weekend in Vegas” match. But who gives a crap about this match; Elizabeth was wearing leather shorts. #drool
Winner: Randy “Macho Man” Savage

Steel Cage Match
*Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper*
This was an absolute mess but it was fun. There was no referee in the ring, so no pinfalls or submissions. Then Hogan left the cage (which was huge, almost as big as a Hell in a Cell) closely followed by Piper but that didn’t end the match. So I don’t know how one was supposed to win this match. Sometimes you just don’t ask. Because the referee DID come into the ring when Hogan told him to.
Winner: “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
Randy Savage and Eric Bischoff come in and attack Piper but a bunch of guys with bad wigs and Sting masks try to come to the rescue. Then a fan in Sting makeup climbs into the cage and Hogan and Savage beat the crap out of him.
____________________________________________________________________________________
This was a good show. The Las Vegas Sudden Death Match was really good, Scott Hall verses Luger and Flair verses Hennig were decent and the main event was a lot of fun. They all had over-the-top stupid endings though, all involving the nWo members in some way. Eddie Guerrero verses Rey Mysterio was a REALLY good match that stood on its own. I think I’ve seen it before, possibly on one of Eddies DVDs. The only part of the show I really didn’t like was the stretch between when Hogan and Bischoff made their announcement and when JJ Dillon resolved the issue. It was all the commentary team talked about. But as was WCW during the nWo run. And it wasn’t like I was too invested in Steve McMichael verses Alex Wright or Disco Inferno verses Jacquelyn. 

A lot of titles weren't defended on this show. Hogan was World Heavyweight Champion, Hennig was United States Champion and Disco Inferno was (I think) Television Champion. Not sure why for the first two but they did mention Discos title wasn't on the line because it was a non-sactioned match, in between talking about Hogan and Bischoff.

Watching this I can kind of see why people hated Eric Bischoff so much. He was a dweeb hanging out with cool kids. Kinda like Adam Page is today.

Wow, some of the fans that got on camera. at this show were...special. Las Vegas + late 1990’s wrestling fans = wow.

I put "Slim Jims" in the title header because they mentioned Slim Jims presenting the show a few times, Savage had a huge "Slim Jims" logo on his jacket during his one promo and the ring had "Slim Jims" plastered all over the apron and the four turnbuckles.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

Ultimate Warrior “Always Believe”​
Disc One is a documentary from 2014 that gives a bit of a crash course history lesson on the Ultimate Warrior but serves more as damage control on the WWE’s part for the Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior DVD they released a few years earlier that pretty much smeared him. It also goes into his return to the WWE to enter the Hall of Fame in 2014. I watched a bit of it but I had to turn it off when Diana Warrior started appearing too much.

Disc Two is the matches, which are all that interest me.

WCCW on July 25th, 1986
2 on 1 Handicapped Match
*Dingo Warrior w/Gary Hart vs. Perry Jackson & Chico Cabello*
I haven’t seen a match like this in years. It was an elimination handicapped squash.
Winner: Dingo Warrior

WCCW June 2nd, 1987
*“Big Bear” Collie vs. Dingo Warrior*
This was a more competitive squash but it was noticeable for the ridiculously brutal chops the Dingo Warrior hit on his opponent.
Winner: Dingo Warrior

November 24th, 1987
*Frenchy Martin vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
I thought Frenchy Martin was a full-time manager of Dino Bravo by this point? Squash.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

November 29th, 1987
*The Ultimate Warrior vs. Brian Costello*
Bobby Heenan was pretty funny on commentary with his subtle jabs at the Warrior. This was another squash.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

December 5th, 1987
*“Iron” Mike Sharpe vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was a competitive squash match. 
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

Wrestling Challenge on May 8th, 1988
*The Ultimate Warrior vs. Conquistador 1*
Guess what. This was another squash.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

_(FYI we’re about thirty minutes into disc two)_

October 10th, 1988
*The Honky Tonk Man w/Jimmy Hart vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
The Warrior has won the Intercontinental Championship by this point. If they were going to include nothing but squashes I don’t understand why include this match instead of the one when he beat the Honky Tonk Man for the title? But I think this was a little more competitive than that match. Didn’t he beat Honky Tonk Man in a few seconds for the title?
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior via disqualification 

May 8th, 1989
For the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*“Ravishing” Rick Rude (champion) w/Bobby Heenan vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was much better. Warrior still got his early flurry in but Rude then worked most of the match. It was refreshing after seven squash matches in a row. 
Winner: Ultimate Warrior via countout 

June 6th, 1989
*Andre the Giant & “Ravishing” Rick Rude w/Bobby “the Brain” Heenan vs. “King” Duggan & the Ultimate Warrior*
Andre was pretty fucking hilarious in this match mocking Duggan. It was a good match considering three of the four guys in it weren’t really the best wrestlers.
Winners: “King” Duggan & the Ultimate Warrior

From Wrestling Challenge on September 24th, 1989
*The Ultimate Warrior vs. John Weiss*
Warrior was so pumped to squash John Weiss that he didn’t even take the Intercontinental Championship belt off. What a maroon.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

From Maple Leaf Wrestling on October 29th, 1989
For the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Andre the Giant w/Bobby “the Brain” Heenan vs. the Ultimate Warrior (champion)*
This was at least not a ridiculous squash. Andre’s matches weren’t the best by this point. This one relied on a very drawn out bear hug.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior via disqualification

From Wrestling Challenge on March 11th, 1990
*The Brooklyn Brawler vs. the Ultimate Warrior* 
Holy squash-moly. I couldn’t even type fast enough for this one.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

_(So rather than show the Hulk Hogan match from Wrestlemania they skip to an interview from Saturday Nights Main Event on April 28th, 1990. What the fucking fuck?)_

From Saturday Nights Main Event on April 28th, 1990
For the WWF World Championship
*Haku w/Bobby “the Brain” Heenan vs. the Ultimate Warrior (champion)*
This was somewhat competitive but the real Haku would just rip the Ultimate Warriors head off.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior 

Saturday Nights Main Event from April 1991
*Sgt. Slaughter w/Col. Mustafa and General Adnan vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
Sadly this is the best match on this set up until this point. Again, I have no idea why they skipped over Warriors title reign or the match where he retired fucking Randy Savage at Wrestlemania VII? This was notable for the Undertaker causing distraction.
Winner: no contest

From Wrestling Challenge on April 28th, 1991
*“The Model” Rick Martel vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was a much more interesting match because for the first time the Warrior showed vulnerability. It was like a John Cena match; the Warrior got beaten up quite a bit and then pulled out the quick victory.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

From Superstars on May 18th, 1991
*Smash w/Mr. Fuji vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was very similar to the previous match. Both matches were playing off the Warrior being in fear of the Undertaker.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

_(The Undertaker match, which they of course don’t show and instead skip ahead another year.)_

From Superstars on May 2nd, 1992
*Skinner vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
Back to the squash’n.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

From May 19th, 1992
*Papa Shango vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was about as competitive as the earlier match with Iron Mike Sharpe.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

From Summerslam Spectacular on August 23rd, 1992
*The Nasty Boys w/Jimmy Hart vs. the Ultimate Warrior & Randy “Macho Man” Savage*
This was okay but the more interesting story was the tension between Savage and the Warrior, who met at Summerslam for the WWF Championship a week later, and also Ric Flair and Mr. Perfect assaulting the Warrior.
Winners: the Nasty Boys via count out

_(So let’s skip that match from Summerslam 1992. And let’s also skip the only squash of the Ultimate Warriors I’d want to watch: the one against Hunter Hurst Helmsley at Wrestlemania XII.)_

From Monday Night Raw on April 29th, 1996
*Isaac Yankem DDS w/Jerry “the King” Lawler vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
The best part of this was Warriors entrance. It was longer than the match. But he ran out twice so that meant at least seventy seconds of wrestling.
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior

From Monday Night Raw on July 8th, 1996
*Owen Hart w/Jim Cornette vs. the Ultimate Warrior*
This was the most evenly matched matchup on the DVD thus far. It had Owen Hart, my favourite Hart, so it wins. 
Winner: the Ultimate Warrior via disqualification

Disc three is a bunch of Warriors promos from his WWF run. Those are funny but I really don’t have any desire to watch them.
_________________________________________________________
Overall this set was a huge disappointment. The Ultimate Warrior was never a good wrestler but why did they not include any of his BIG matches? I mean yeah, the matches where he beat the Honky Tonk Man and Hulk Hogan to win the Intercontinental and WWE Championships were on that, was the match with Rick Rude at Summerslam 1990 and the Macho Man retirement match. But they had more than enough room to include those since the whole point of this DVD was to make him look good. I can see not including any of the WCW stuff. But I don’t think including a million squashes did him any favours. 

And yet they didn’t include his most famous squash against Triple H at Wrestlemania XII.

Avoid this unless you can find it for dirt cheap, like I did.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Great Balls of Fire”
July 9th, 2017
From the American Airlines Arena in Dallas, Texas
Commentators: Michael Cole, Corey Graves and Booker T

Tonight: Roman Reigns and Braun Strowman face off in an Ambulance Match, Sasha Banks takes on Alexa Bliss for the Raw Women’s Championship and Samoa Joe challenges Brock Lesnar for the Universal Championship.

*Bray Wyatt vs. Seth Rollins*
This wasn’t a bad match. It was a little too choreographed in parts but these two work well together. Bray was such damaged goods by this point though. But he really isn’t anything special anyway. I’m not sure why people had such high expectations of his lame character.
Winner: Bray Wyatt(!?WTF!?)

WWE Battleground promo.

#WWEhero promo.

The Hardy Boyz are with Charley Caruso and they’re ready for their half hour Iron Man match against Sheamus and Cesaro for the Raw Tag Team Championships.

History of Enzo Amore and Big cASS (which I fast-forwarded).

*Enzo Amore vs. Big cASS*
Oh fuck Enzo Amore so much. I seriously hate that guy so fucking much. Talentless piece of garbage. Fuck him, good fucking riddance. cASS was garbage too but he at least came across as someone who was trying. 
Winner: who the fuck cares?

“Kurt Angle 24” promo.

The Miz and the Miztourage are...here. He defends his Intercontinental Championship against Dean Ambrose later tonight.

30-Minute Ironman Match for the Raw Tag Team Championships
*The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro & SHEAMUS (champions)*
Cesaro and Sheamus made the Hardy’s their bitches for the first ten minutes of this match, complete with a nice homage to Sheamus’ glorious victory over Daniel Bryant at Wrestlemania XXVIII. The Hardy’s mounted a bit of offence towards the middle of the match but the last ten minutes were all Cesaro and Sheamus. Good fucking match. 
Winners: Cesaro & Sheamus (4-3)

Rocket League Championship segment. 

John Cena verses Rusev Flag Match at Battleground promo.

Dean Ambrose is backstage getting ready for his match.

Let’s meet the international announcers.

For the Raw Women’s Championship
*Sasha Banks vs. Alexa Bliss (champion)*
Ha-ha, HAHA, fuck you Sasha Banks. This match wasn’t bad because they beat the high holy hell out of themselves. But if you ever want to see why most of these girls don’t have a long shelf life watch these two fumble around the ring. You can’t throw a hundred pound frame around like that. 
Winner: Sasha Banks via count out

Rocket League promo.

Randy Orton verses Jinder Mahal Punjabi Prison Match at Battleground promo.

Recap of the 205 Live match between Neville and Akira Tozawa that was on the preshow.

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*The Miz (champion) w/Maryse and the Miztourage vs. Dean Ambrose*
I really didn’t care about this match and I doubt I would have cared two years ago.
Winner: the Miz

WWE Network promo.

Ambulance Match
*Braun Strowman vs. Roman Reigns*
This was a decent big man match when they were in the ring. Ambulance matches are stupid so when they got out there it was...stupid. Seriously, shouldn’t your opponent have to be incapacitated when you throw them in the ambulance in order for you to win? Strowman won this when he dodged Reigns and Reigns jumped into the ambulance.
Winner: Braun Strowman
Roman jumps out, throws Strowman into the ambulance and drives the ambulance into the parking area. He then backs the ambulance into a trailer. 

*Curt Hawkins vs. Heath Slater*
This was an impromptu match to kill time while the camera kept cutting backstage to Kurt Angle and Jamie Noble trying to get Braun Strowman out of the ambulance. I felt bad for them as the crowd watched the screen and completely ignored them. They didn’t even show the pinfall. I don’t even know why they bothered?
Winner: Heath Slater

Fire and rescue are able to get the ambulance open but Braun Strowman refuses their help. I swear Jordynne Grace was acting as an extra in the background here. Maybe someone can confirm?

For the WWE Universal Championship
*Samoa Joe vs. Brock Lesnar (champion) w/Paul Heyman*
I liked this match. The two of them could have had a classic and this was not that but it was still nice to see Brock have his usual one-sides M.D.K. This was one of the very few times he’s looked vulnerable in years.
Winner: Brock Lesnar 
______________________________________________________________________________________
This was a decent show but a lot of it served as a reminder of why I hate the current WWE product now. The commentary was shit. The camerawork and the fucking crowd cuts were ridiculous. Enzo. Just, fucking Enzo. The iron man match was very good though. Very good. And I enjoyed the women’s match but probably for all the wrong reasons. The ambulance match was good enough when they were in the ring and the main event was fine except for the fact that we all knew Samoa Joe didn’t have a snowballs chance in hell.

I just don’t know who thought it was a good idea to use a then sixty year old song as the backdrop for a wrestling show. Well I do but come on. 

We watched this because the poster had Lesnar and Joe on it and my son asked who’d win between the two.





Sadly, Great Balls of Fire hasn’t been heard from since :’(


----------



## Mr wrestling 123 (Mar 3, 2019)

Hi every one
Do any of you have any list recommended matches that are not very talked about? I am looking for matches from any year and any promotion
thanks in advance&#55357;&#56842;


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

With the new decade a few months away, I'm doing a project to rank my top 30 matches of each year from 2010-now, so I'm rewatching a lot of favorites from earlier in the decade that I haven't seen in a while. And holy crap, Punk vs. Bryan from Over the Limit 2012 is _effing awesome_. I know everybody loved it at the time, and it was definitely in my personal top 10, but seeing it again for the first time in probably seven years, I wonder if we didn't underrate it by consigning it to the status of "great match that doesn't quite have what it takes to endure as a classic." Rediscovering matches like this makes me grateful for this arbitrary time milestone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's similar to how I felt for a while myself. I often thought it was good, then very good, then upon the last few times I watched it; it completely blows me away. Such a fantastic match in all elements from both Punker & Danielson.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Watched the match for a very similar "project" and I thought it was excellent. It was given a large amount of time, which shocked me more than it should've, and they used every time so effectively. I think the match had a rep of shoehorning call backs to their indie runs without any real value (forgot where I heard that) but I was happy to see that the match was much more than that. A big plus for both guys resume of great matches. Shame their MITB didn't reach that standard. In another universe, it could've been one of the best feuds in WWE history. Oh well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Bryan OTL was incredible. Don't think any match I've seen comes close to it since it happened.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still consider it one of the best matches in WWE history.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW “Fall Brawl”
September 12th, 1999
From the Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Winston-Salem, North Carolina 
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Bobby “the Brain” Heenan and Mike Tenay

_“Can Sting trust Hulk Hogan or Lex Luger?”_

Tonight: Hulk Hogan verses Sting for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and Chris Benoit defends the United States Championship against the 79-0 Sid Vicious

*Vampiro & the Insane Clown Posse vs. Rey Mysterio Jr., Eddie Guerrero & Billy Kidman*
Say what you want about the Insane Clown Posse; the fact that they still do wrestling twenty years after this should endure them to wrestling fans that they were there for no other reason other than that they wanted to be. That said they were extremely sloppy and green in this match, especially Shaggy 2 Dope. The crowd was extremely hot. Hotter than I’ve ever heard a WCW crowd.
Winners: Rey Mysterio Jr., Billy Kidman & Eddie Guerrero 

The Revolution guarantee a clean sweep in all their matches tonight.

Recap of Lenny recently winning the WCW Cruiserweight Championship and Kaz Hayashi pinning him to win a match...a match that he was wrestling against Lodi...oh, WCW.

For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Kaz Hayashi vs. Lenny (champion) w/Lodi*
This was a solid match that really didn’t matter. 
Winner: Lenny

Mean Gene Okerlund brings Sting out to the ring. Sting says he has no problem with Hulk Hogan...until he gets in the ring with him tonight. 

Video package of the Revolution’s feud with the First Family.

No Disqualifications
*The First Family (Brian Knobs and Hugh Morris) w/Jimmy Hart vs. the Revolution (Shane Douglas and Dean Malenko)*
The best part of this was Shane Douglas getting the Saginaw, Michigan crowd pumped up for the match. I can see saying the wrong city but he was over six hundred and fifty miles off. And of all the wrong cities to name, “Saginaw”? The match started out as a brawl but after the first five or so minutes became a standard wrestling match.
Winners: the First Family

Perry Saturn verses Rick Steiner promo.

For the WCW World Television Championship
*Perry Saturn vs. Rick Steiner (champion)*
This was a decent “big man” match but I really couldn’t get invested in.
Winner: Rick Steiner

Mean Gene Okerlund is with Hulk Hogan who swears he will not stab Sting in the back.

*Berlyn w/the Wall vs. “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan*
Considering this was Berlyns in-ring debut it went on way longer than it should have and Duggan got way too much offence in.
Winner: Berlyn
Buff Bagwell (who was supposed to have wrestled Berlyn in the previous match) just arrived at the arena. He goes to the ring and thanks Duggan for filling in for him but Duggan doesn’t seem impressed by his show of affection.

For the WCW World Tag Team Championships
*Harlem Heat vs. the West Texas ******** (champions) w/Curt Hennig*
This was a good Tag Team Match. I was really hoping Curly Bill would do a run-in.
Winners: Harlem Heat (new WCW World Tag Team Champions)

For the WCW United States Championship
*Sid Vicious vs. Chris Benoit (champion)*
This was okay. Benoit took a lot of shots to the head.
Winner: Sid Vicious (new WCW United States Champion and now 80-0)

*Diamond Dallas Page vs. Goldberg*
This didn’t have quite the fire of their match eleven months earlier at Halloween Havoc 1998 but it was still a much better wrestling match than you'd usually get from Goldberg.
Winner: Goldberg

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Sting vs. Hulk Hogan (champion)*
I was watching WCW in late-1999 but I have virtually no memory of Hogan going back to red and yellow and holding the World Heavyweight Championship. The ending was as should be expected with Diamond Dallas Page, Bret Hart, Sid Vicious and Lex Luger all running in before Sting pulled the turn and double-crossed Hogan.
Winner: Sting (new WCW World Heavyweight Champion)
______________________________________________________________________________________
This wasn’t too bad a show. It felt like a b-show. Nothing had that important feel to it. Even the main event. I was really surprised how much the crowd was into the entire show. Late-1999 WCW is often seen as a company in the early stages of dying but you wouldn’t have known that here. The first match was fun and the last four matches were good enough. Diamond Dallas Page verses Goldberg was the highlight. 

The Revolution lost every single one of their matches.

This was the first Fall Brawl to not have a War Games match. The icon on the WWE Network said "WCW Fall Brawl: *War Games*" and that's why I chose it.

From Wikipedia:


> Berlyn was originally supposed to face Buff Bagwell, but the storyline was that Bagwell was late in arriving. In reality, Bagwell had refused to lose the match. Instead Berlyn wrestled against Jim Duggan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/seth-rollins-vs-the-fiend-bray-wyatt-hell-in-a-cell-match/


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hi everyone. It's been forever since I posted on here. Not sure if anyone remembers me, but I remember when this forum used to be busy with discussion. Sad to see that the last post was 3 months ago. Would be nice to hear from guys like Cal, Yeah1993 and SegundaCaida again. Hope you all are doing well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hi everyone. It's been forever since I posted on here. Not sure if anyone remembers me, but I remember when this forum used to be busy with discussion. Sad to see that the last post was 3 months ago. Would be nice to hear from guys like Cal, Yeah1993 and SegundaCaida again. Hope you all are doing well.


Forum went to complete shit mate. Discussion has tapered off everywhere since the change. =/


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Corey said:


> Forum went to complete shit mate. Discussion has tapered off everywhere since the change. =/


Damn. I new layout really isn't pleasing on the eyes. I lost my account info some years ago. The last time I posted was late 2014. I see a few OGs are still around. I wonder if anyone moved over to Wreddit? Seems to be the new place to discuss wrestling. It's just so sad to see this community die. I joined when I was 15 and spent most of my teenage years here. Oh well, I guess like all good things....


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Damn. I new layout really isn't pleasing on the eyes. I lost my account info some years ago. The last time I posted was late 2014. I see a few OGs are still around. I wonder if anyone moved over to Wreddit? Seems to be the new place to discuss wrestling. It's just so sad to see this community die. I joined when I was 15 and spent most of my teenage years here. Oh well, I guess like all good things....


I feel ya there. I joined when I was 14. Place just isn't the same anymore. Btw you may remember me as Jack Evans 187 from back in the day.


----------



## JJKING13 (Jan 11, 2020)

So is WWE just releasing pay per views on dvd with docs and concepts available on the WWE Network (which I don’t have).

I have always thought a Rise And Fall of the MegaPowers would make a great DVD. Hogan could narrate and maybe Lanny Poffo could give his thoughts on behalf of Savage. A lot of material could be included with matches and interviews From pay per views, SNME, Superstars of Wrestling. I know most or all of the big matches have already been released but I believe a lot of the interviews from Superstars and Brother Love, etc. have not. There may also be a couple of matches that haven’t been released (Savage vs Akeem).


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW “Fall Brawl: War Games”
September 13th, 1998
From the Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Bobby “the Brain” Heenan and Mike Teney

Tonight: Team Hollywood (Hollywood Hogan, Bret Hart and Stevie Ray) verses Team Wolfpack (Kevin Nash, Sting and Lex Luger) verses Team WCW (Diamond Dallas Page, Rowdy Roddy Piper and the Warrior) in a three team War Games March with the winner getting a WCW World Heavyweight Championship title shot against Goldberg next month at Halloween Havoc.

Wow, Bobby Heenan looks like he DOES NOT want to be there.

Backstage, Ernest Miller is fighting with someone.

Gene Okerlund gives a quick rundown of the undercard: Dean Malenko verses Curt Hennig, Scott Steiner verses Rick Steiner and Saturn verses Raven for control of the Flock. Chris Jericho comes out with a “scoop”. He announces that he and Bill Goldberg will have a title-verses-title match tonight!

*Disco Inferno & Alex Wright vs. the British Bulldog & Jim “the Anvil” Neidhart*
This is the match where the British Bulldog got hurt on that trapdoor in the ring, which pretty much ended his career. You don’t see anything happen and the only time he’s really in visible pain is after an Irish Whip into the ropes towards the beginning. The match was okay. Neidhart looked pretty sluggish. It looked like they were working a little stiff towards the end.
Winners: the British Bulldog & Jim “the Anvil” Neidhart

Gene Okerlund is backstage trying to get a word with Scott Steiner. Steiner says he’s injured so he can’t face his brother tonight. Okerlund doesn’t believe them so he asks JJ Dillon to look into the doctors note that Steiner has. Dillion doesn’t buy it so he tells Steiner he has to wrestle his brother tonight or he’s out of WCW for life.

Chris Jericho gets lost backstage on his way out for his match with Goldberg. Then his pyro doesn’t work. FUCKING CLASSIC!!!!

Title verses Title
*Chris Jericho (WCW World Television Champion) vs. “Goldberg”*
Yeah so it wasn’t really Goldberg. It wasn’t Gillberg either. I think it was that Roadblock guy with his head shaved. You can imagine how this went.
Winner: Chris Jericho

Rick Steiner is on the internet chat. He doesn’t want to fight his brother tonight but he has to.

Footage from earlier when Mike Teney was doing an interview and Ernest Miller interrupted.

*NORMAN SMILEY vs. Ernest “the Cat” Miller*
This was a WCW piss-break match.
Winner: Ernest “the Cat” Miller

Recap of the feud between the Steiners.

*Scott Steiner w/Buff Bagwell vs. Rick Steiner*
This match was going along fine and the crowd was actually into it but then Buff Bagwells neck got injured and the match was called off.
Winner: no contest
The camera follows as Bagwell is taken to an ambulance and finally (after a long time) it’s revealed to be a ruse and they (Scott Steiner and Bagwell) attack Rick Steiner.

For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Silver King vs. Juventud Guererra (champion)*
The crowd was pretty dead for this one but they came alive at the end. It was the best match on the show up until this point, but the bar wasn’t very high.
Winner: Juventud Guererra

Konnan is on the internet chat when his opponent later tonight Scott shall (who is drunk) comes up and throws a drink in Konnans face.

Recap of the drama within the Flock.

Ravens Rules match for control of the Flock
*Raven w/Lodi & Kanyon vs. Saturn*
There were so many stipulations to this one; all that matters is Raven actually having a match. The match could have and should have been a lot better but it had strange pacing. Something just seemed weird.
Winner: Saturn

An update on Hacksaw Jim Duggan: his cancer surgery was successful.

Recap of the feud between Dean Malenko and Curt Hennig.

*Curt Hennig w/Rick Rude vs. Dean Malenko*
This could have been a classic and while it was good it wasn’t great.
Winner: Dean Malenko via disqualification
The nWo (Hennig and Rude) attack Malenko and Arn Anderson when he tries to come to the rescue.

*Scott Hall w/Vincent and a drink vs. Konnan*
This was tough to watch because it was during the “Last Call” Scott Hall angle. The match could have been good (and when it wasn’t focused on Halls demons it was) but it was depressing to see Hall at his lowest...at that point.
Winner: Konnan

War Games Match, winner gets a shot at the WCW World Heavyweight Championship at Halloween Havoc
*Team Hollywood (Hollywood Hogan, Bret Hart and Stevie Ray) verses Team Wolfpack (Kevin Nash, Sting and Lex Luger) verses Team WCW (Diamond Dallas Page, Rowdy Roddy Piper and the Warrior)*
This was a weirder structured War Games match. It felt more like a Royal Rumble. Even though there were three teams of three it was pretty much every man for themselves since there was only one person who could get the prize. And (even though it didn’t matter in the end) the victorious pinfall could have happened at any time, even when it was just the first two guys in the ring. Overall it wasn’t as brutal as other War Games. The main proposed behind it seemed to be setting up the Hogan verses Warrior match rather than feuds between factions and the title shot at hand. A lot of the guys looked like they were half-assing it because of that. The ending was a wreck. 
Winner: Diamond Dallas Page
*__*
I enjoyed this one. Late-1998 WCW was often a shitshow but something about this one was working. There was some pretty historic stuff. Some of it best left forgotten, such as the British Bulldogs infamous injury and “Last Call” Scott Hall. But there was also Chris Jericho getting lost backstage, which is funny no matter how many times you’ve seen it. Wrestling-wise it was “whatever”. I guess the best matches were the Cruiserweight Championship and Hennig verses Malenko.

I saw a lot of stuff on this show that I’d never seen before. I was watching WCW around this time but think I may have started watching super hardcore the month after this. I’ve never seen the Flock outside of a few clips from WWE smear videos. I’d imagine they were around for a while after this but I don’t remember ever seeing them on Nitro. And I’ve never seen Rick Rudes later run in WCW outside of clips.

The crowd was into some of the show but a lot of times they were more interested in chanting for Ric Flair to return to WCW (I didn’t realize the show was in North Carolina until when I finished up this recap the day after watching). And boy oh boy when they showed the crowd...


----------



## Strike Force (Sep 14, 2015)

Brock said:


> I still consider it one of the best matches in WWE history.


Agreed. I have it in the top 50. Absolutely fantastic match between Punk and Bryan.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Backlash: In Your House”
April 25th, 1999
From the Providence Civic Center in Providence, Rhode Island
Commentators: Jim Ross and Jerry “the King” Lawler

Tonight: Stone Cold Steve Austin defends the WWF Championship against the Rock, and if he touches referee Shane McMahon he will be disqualified.

*The Brood vs. the Ministry of Darkness (Bradshaw, Farooq and Midian)*
This was a decent match all things considered. 
Winners: the Ministry of Darkness via assistance from Viscera

The Rock has arrived with Stone Cold Steve Austin’s Smoking Skull Championship

For the WWF Hardcore Championship
*Al Snow w/Head vs. Hardcore Holly (champion)*
This was good, stupid fun. A match like this once in a blue moon is fine. Al Snow started bleeding the hard way right at the beginning. My kids loved it when they went backstage.
Winner: Al Snow (new WWF Hardcore Champion)

The Undertaker is backstage with his Ministry preparing them for “His” arrival.

For the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Goldust w/the Blue Meanie vs. the Godfather (champion) w/Five Hoes of varying quality*
This was a pretty stupid waste of time.
Winner: the Godfather

Michael Cole is in the bathroom with new Hardcore Champion Al Snow, who’s arguing with Head because she was in the hand Al Snow pinned Hardcore Holly with. 

To Determine the #1 Contenders for the WWF Tag Team Championships
*The New Age Outlaws vs. Jeff Jarrett & Owen Hart w/De-Bra w/o much clothing on*
Yeah watching this was pretty sad since it’s Owens last match on pay per view. I’m certain it wasn’t his last match on TV. This was a lot better than I expected since I expected nothing. Hart and Jarrett were both really good wrestlers and they brought out the best in Road Dogg and Billy Gunn.
Winners: the New Age Outlaws (#1 Contenders to the WWF Tag Team Championships)
Billy Gunn celebrates by showing his ass.

Michael Cole is backstage with Shane McMahon. Shane gives his word that if Austin is able to pin the Rock he will count 1-2-3. He promises because he’s not his father.

Vince McMahon is backstage and he hopes Shane doesn’t believe everything he says. Stephanie McMahon is there. Ah, those fleeting moments before she became unbearable.

Boiler Room Brawl
*The Big Show vs. Mankind*
This was better than the hardcore match earlier. They destroyed each other. Foley got a BRUTAL cut on his hand early in the match that you could tell was troublesome. 
Winner: Mankind
As soon as Mankind exited the Boiler Room the Big Bossman and Test attacked her, but the Big Show came to his defence. I wonder where the Big Show and Bossman angle went?

Michael Cole is with Chyna and Triple H. Did you read that? “Chyna and Triple H”. Note the order. 

The Big Show is getting stitched up and his finger...undislocated? Relocated? Popped back into place.

Mankind goes over all the damage from the Boiler Room Brawl and says he doesn’t want to fight the Big Show anymore.

*X-Pac vs. Triple H w/Chyna*
Fuck I hate X-Pac. And he’s about to become a two-time WWE Hall of Famer. Even worse is when he’s a sympathetic face. The whole match JR was calling for it to end out of fear for his neck. I personally didn’t care then or now. Neither did the crowd really. I swear I heard some boring chants. Chyna was nearing the end of her transition at this point and it was...something. The only thing interesting about this was Kane coming out to save X-Pac and Chynas ass.
Winner: Triple H

*Ken Shamrock vs. the Undertaker w/Paul Bearer*
This was a “real wrestling match”. These days that’s not uncommon from the Undertaker (well, maybe not “these day since these days his matches are just trainwrecks where you watch though your fingers and hope no one dies) but in 1999 he hadn’t had too many of those. The crowd was not into it. At all. The crowd even started chanting “Goldberg”. That wasn’t good at all. The match was very submission based. Attitude Era fans didn’t want that.
Winner: the Undertaker via interference from Bradshaw
Bradshaw continues to attack Ken Shamrock.

Vince McMahon loads Stephanie McMahon into their limo and goes back into the arena to watch the main event.

No Holds Barred Match for the WWF Championship
*The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (champion)*
Special Referee: Shane McMahon
This was a fun, wild brawl. As far as I can remember the most fun match these two had. I think the footage of the Rock Rock-Bottoming Stone Cold through the Spanish announce table has been used in many WWF/E highlight videos. The Rock was “on” during this match. The best parts where when he grabbed the Spanish announcers headset and gave some commentary and grabbed a camera and gave some “Rock Cam”. Great stuff. Not as dramatic as their Wrestlemania X7 match but just...fun.
Winner: Stone Cold Steve Austin

Stephanie McMahons limo leaves without Vince McMahon and it’s revealed that the Undertaker is driving it.
*__*
This was a better show than I’m used to from the Attitude era. Wrestling was always secondary in those days but this show had some good matches. No five-star clinics but the Hardcore and Tag Team title matches, the Boiler Room Brawl and the main event were all worth checking out. The Boiler Room Brawl was a real surprise. I thought I read about that match being garbage but I think I was reading about another one. I never even knew there was more than one. The best part was an accident when Mankind took that nasty cut on the hand but that just added another layer. Mankind took such a beating in that match.

I liked the Undertaker alluding to the Higher Powers arrival; which was a little over a month later. In between this show and the Higher Power was the birth of the Corporate Ministry. The whole thing makes me laugh now.

The best part of this show was seeing how not-over Triple H was. His match had no heat and as I alluded to in the recap it was Chyna and Triple H. She was up front and center and he was standing behind her. I’m surprised the WWE didn’t retcon this one for the Network. He was a heel but they’d normally edit in some crowd noise at least. It was funny. He at least did manage to have the longest match on the show (his match was just over 19 minutes; the main event was just over 17). But (and I hate doing this) the following match with the Undertaker and Shamrock had even less heat. The Boiler Room Brawl seemed to suck the life out of the crowd. I can’t blame them. They (the crowd) seemed pissed when the Hardcore match went backstage so having a second match that was ALL backstage was probably a bad idea. The main event had a lot of action outside the ring but it was at least on the arena floor. And at this point Stone Cold Steve Austin could have just sat in the ring playing Game Boy and the crowd would have still been off-the-wall.

And a great plus: no Val Venis. I don’t care about how much of an unlikeable guy he’s become in recent years. He was garbage back then and when he's on it reminds me of why I don’t look back on the Attitude Era too well.

Overall it was a great show. It reminded me that the Attitude Era was good. Not all boobs and catch-phrases. It’s weird that Backlash was always a great show, sometimes even better than Wrestlemania.


----------



## Blindpeake (Feb 28, 2020)

Anyone know where I can find that Ki vs. Callihan match from JAPW?? I don't think I even watched much of Callihan (if at all) back in 2011, mostly because I spent that year just devouring 90's All Japan, but I recall being under the impression that he just spent most of that year getting the absolute piss beaten out of him :lmao


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

Ric Flair “the Definitive Collection”

The first disc was a documentary or something but I’ve heard Ric Flairs life story ten times over so I didn’t bother watching it.

Disc 2

Non-title Match from Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling on August 18th, 1982
*Ric Flair vs. Jack Briscoe*
This was a good mat wrasslin’ match but really didn’t offer too much until the final few minutes when Flair pulled out a lot of stuff I didn’t know he ever had in him. That was cool to see.
Winner: Jack Briscoe

From World Class Championship Wrestling on August 24th, 1982
Best 2 out of 3 Falls Match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Ric Flair (champion) vs. Kerry Von Erich*
Special Referee: Alfred Neely
This match was really good but it had some dumb referee shenanigans at the end of the first fall that it didn’t need. I don’t like shenanigans. They should have just let them go. But at the same time that stuff did its job of making you hate Flair even more. The whole match ended in chaos and a double disqualification in the third fall, which was a nice change for a 2 out of 3 Falls Match.
Winner: no contest

From Mid-Atlantic Championship Wresting on August 31st, 1983
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Ric Flair vs. Harley Race (champion)*
This match wasn’t as brawny manly as I wanted it to be. Give me Harley Race any day of the week but put him in the ring with a real man, not some bleached blonde pin-up. This was an okay match.
Winner: no contest

From World Wide Wrestling on December 15th, 1985
*Ric Flair, Ole Anderson & Arn Anderson vs. Magnum TA, Dusty Rhodes & Manny Fernandes*
Very interesting fact in this match: the commentators were referring to Dusty Rhodes as “Stardust”.
This was a good match with a lot of hatred between the two teams but what really made it special was the electricity of the crowd radiating from the TV. The match was too short. I would like to see the bigger, bloodier finale.
Winners: Ric Flair, Ole Anderson & Arn Anderson

From Clash of Champions on March 27th, 1988
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship 
*Sting vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
JJ Dillon was suspended from a cage for this match. But even more important: Jason Harvey was a judge at ringside. The more 1980’s NWA wrestling I watch the more I realize that Jason Harvey rules. And he’s chatting up Patty Mullen (aka Frankenhooker!!) who was sitting beside him the entire match. I bet Flair had Ole Anderson kick the punk kids ass after the show. Any-hoo, this match was really fucking good. It wasn’t exceptionally violent or brutal. It was just a good back-and-forth match with no stupid outside interference. 
Winner: time expired, the judges scored the match 1-1-1...meaning it ended in a draw. That was stupid.

From the Great American Bash on July 23rd, 1989
For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Ric Flair (champion) vs. Terry Funk*
I’ve seen this match (multiple times) but it’s a really good match and I have no problem watching it again. Such a brutal match had such a sudden, quick ending though.
Winner: Ric Flair

Disc 3

From Madison Square Gardens on October 28th, 1991
*Ric Flair w/Bobby “the Brain” Hennan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper*
This was a pretty good match but the electricity brought it up a notch. It was Flairs first match in Madison Square Gardens and he was facing a red-hot face Roddy Piper. I can only imagine what it was like being in that crowd.
Winner: Ric Flair

From WCW Spring Stampede on April 17th, 1994
For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Ricky “the Dragon” Steamboat vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
This started out pretty slow but got interesting after about twenty minutes once they’d both gotten exhausted and it became a contest of endurance. But of all the matches I’ve seen these two have this wasn’t my favourite.
Winner: draw

From WWE Taboo Tuesday on November 1st, 2005
Steel Cage Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Triple H vs. Ric Flair (champion)*
This was just a blood-bath. But despite all the blood I could help but laugh at how much of a wannabe Triple H was here. He was possibly at his most nauseating outside of DX 2006. There’s “paying tribute” and then there’s “suckling at the teets”. He was suckling at Ric Flairs teets in this match trying to show that he’s just like Flair but it was more like “go away Hunter”. 
Winner: Ric Flair

From Wrestlemania XXIV on March 30th, 2008
Ric Flairs Career on the Line
*Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair*
I don’t think there’s anyone who hasn’t seen this match. It’s lost a lot of its emotional value since it’s been twelve years...and since Flair continued to wrestle afterwards in TNA. But at the time it was great and if you pretend it’s a great ending to an incredible career.
Winner: Shawn Michaels

The set closes with Ric Flairs farewell address on Raw the following night. 
*___*
This was a good set. There are a lot of holes in it and he had a lot of better matches but I’m sure they’re on all the other Ric Flair DVDs the WWE has put out. I could probably walk over to my DVD shelf and read the match listings from the one they put out four or five years before this and see a bunch of better matches are on that one. You know the one. The one with the white cover.

Anyway, this was an enjoyable set. I JUST LIKE WRESTLING!!!!

A lot of these matches were TV matches so there were commercial break fades. But not as many as you’d think considering some of those matches broke thirty minutes. 

Since the matches on this set were spaced so far apart Flair flip-flopped between being a heel or being a face every match. That was odd.

Frankenhooker was so hot.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW “Halloween Havoc 1999”
October 24th, 1999
From the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada
Commentators: Tony Schiavone and Bobby “the Brain” Heenan

Tonight: Goldberg challenges Sid Vicious for the WCW United States Championship, Sting defends the WCW World Heavyweight Championship against Hulk Hogan and all the other major titles are on the line.

Breaking News: Rey Mysterio has suffered an injury and cannot compete tonight so he and Konnan have been stripped of the WCW World Tag Team Championships and there will be a six-man Falls Count Anywhere Tag Team Street Fight to determine the new tag team champions.

For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Disco Inferno (champion) vs. Lash Leroux*
This was a damn good match. I can’t believe I’m saying the word “good” in the same block as “Disco Inferno”. I’m going to have to go re-evaluate my life now.

...okay, I’m back.
Winner: Disco Inferno

Footage from earlier in the day when Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko arrived at the arena. Perry Saturn asked them where they’ve been and they tell him that he and Shane Douglas can shove the Revolution up their asses.

Harlem Heat are ready for tonight’s Falls Count Anywhere Street Fight for the WCW Tag Team Championships.

Falls Count Anywhere Street Fight for the vacant WCW World Tag Team Championships
*The First Family (Brian Knobs and Hugh Morris) w/Jimmy Hart vs. Harlem Heat vs. the Filthy Animals (Konnan and Kidman)*
This was an entertaining stOOpid brawl but they should have had it later in the card when the crowd had cooled down a bit. The ending was a mess.
Winners: Harlem Heat (new WCW World Tag Team Champions)

Ric and David Flair have arrived at the arena and Ric is pissed.

Diamond Dallas Page and Kimberly come to the ring and she cuts a terribly awkward promo. DDP takes the mic and calls the Flairs out. They both can cut promos but the material they had to work with here was just so bad. In the end DDP changes his match with Ric Flair later tonight to a Strap Match.

Goldberg is backstage looking for Sid Vicious.

Mike Teney announces that all members of the Filthy Animals and the Revolution have been barred from ringside during Eddie Guerrero’s match with Perry Saturn.

*Perry Saturn vs. Eddie Guerrero*
This was a great fucking match! Perry Saturn was owning it. But then Ric Flair came out and hit Eddie with a crowbar (he was pissed at Eddie for stealing his watch on Nitro the previous week) and ruined it.
Winner: no contest

Goldberg is backstage beating the shit out of Sid, who’s busted open but ready for more.

Buff Bagwell comes out to deflate the entire show. He has a problem with the two new writers from “up north” and Jeff Jarrett. Jarrett comes out and they fight. Lex Luger comes one and accidentally hits Bagwell with Jarretts guitar, which doesn’t break and probably gave Bagwell a concussion. He hit him with the part of the guitar where the neck attaches to the body and that is a HARD part. 

Sid is getting stitched up but he wants to fight.

Eddie Guerrero is hurting backstage after Flairs attack and he calls all the Filthy Animals together to “take care of things”.

*Brad Armstrong vs. Berlyn w/the Wall*
I was about to say that this pay per view was turning into an episode of Nitro...but this just turned it into an episode of Thunder. When I saw Armstrong all I could wonder was if this was before or after he did that character ripping his brother Road Dogg off? I’d have enjoyed if he’d have came out like that rather than the blandest of the bland he was here.
Winner: Brad Armstrong

Mike Teney is backstage with Ric Flair, who tells the Filthy Animals they know where to find him but he’s also ready for his Strap Match against Diamond Dallas Page.

For the WCW World Television Championship
*Chris Benoit (champion) vs. Rick Steiner*
This was pretty much a savage beating which was even harder to watch what with most of the damage being done to Benoits head.
Winner: Rick Steiner (new WCW World Television Championship) via a double-cross on Benoit by Dean Malenko

Mike Teney is backstage with Bret Hart, who was hurt in an earlier attack from Lex Luger but is still going to wrestle him tonight.

*Lex Luger w/Elizabeth vs. Bret Hart*
This was a pretty boring match. Elizabeth is the only reason to watch it.
Winner: Lex Luger

Goldberg says he’s going to rip Sid’s head off his body.

Medusa comes out wearing a bikini to model the WCW Nitro cologne. This was hilarious thanks to Bobby Heenan. Medusa says that the new writing and powers that be are bullshit.

The Hulk Hogan verses Sting match is supposed to be next but Hogan doesn’t come out when his music plays. Sting comes out then Hogan’s music plays again and he comes out but in street clothes with an upset look on his face. He lays down in the ring and...

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Hulk Hogan vs. Sting (champion)*
...let’s Sting pin him.
Winner: Sting

As Goldberg makes his way to the ring he’s attacked from behind by Scott Hall and Kevin Nash.

For the WCW United States Championship
*Sid Vicious (champion) vs. Goldberg*
Sid was pretty awesome during this match. But Sid is always awesome. He was still bleeding from Goldbergs attack an hour earlier and he looked like an unstoppable monster in this match even though he was getting his ass kicked for most of it. 
Winner: Goldberg (new WCW United States Champion) via referee stoppage due to blood

Sting comes out and says he didn’t come here for a night off; he wants a fight. He issues an open challenge and he wants a fight after the next match.

Strap Match
*Diamond Dallas Page w/Kimberly vs. Ric Flair*
This is a different strap match. Instead of having to touch the four corners of the ring to win it’s just a strap to keep the guys in close proximity to one another. The two hated each other so why would they need a strap to keep them together if they wanted to go at each other’s throats? This was a good older school match that would have been better off on a show ten years earlier. I think someone fucked up at the end. Something happened with the referees count then he called for the bell anyway.
Winner: Diamond Dallas Page
Afterwards DDP continues to beat on Ric Flair, and David Flair when he tries to come to his father’s rescue.

As Ric Flair is being taken out on a stretcher the Filthy Animals attack him, throw him into an ambulance and drive off.

Sting comes out to give someone the chance to accept his open challenge. And his challenge is accepted by: GOLDBERG!

*Sting vs. Goldberg*
The commentators kept reiterating that this match wasn’t for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship so it made perfect sense that the referee gave the title to Goldberg when it was done. 
Winner: Goldberg (new WCW World Heavyweight Champion)
Sting is pretty pissed. Not because he lost but because the match was non-title.

Bobby Herman’s last words as the broadcast ends with Sting hitting referee Charles Robinson with a Scorpion Death Drop: _“…why not”_
*___*
To quote Tony Schiavone:_ “I guess he’s the world champion?”_. That’s how this show can best be summed up. There was so much to take in that it felt like I was watching three shows.

It started out good and there was some damn good wrestling on it. But as it wore on the “Russo influence” became more and more visibly apparent. He’d been with the company for about three weeks at this point so this was probably the first show he had complete control over. It was nowhere near as atrocious as the product would be six or seven months later but it did feel more like a WWF show. Even moreso it felt like a new beginning. The vibe was fresher towards the beginning and it was nice to watch a WCW show that wasn’t anchored by the nWo. But as I said as it wore on it got a little old and it honestly ended a confusing mess. By the end it felt like no one knew what was going on, which is normal in any environment when there’s a huge shift at the top. But at the beginning there was this excitement from everything of what good things were on the horizon and then as it progressed it felt like it started dawning on everyone that they weren’t getting exactly what they were hoping for with Russo. 

It’s really too bad because at the beginning it was one of the best WCW pay per views I’d seen. I really enjoyed the cruiserweight match, the Television title match, Guerrero’s match with Saturn, the United States title match and the strap match. But almost every match and every segment ended an overbooked mess.

The commentary was really good tonight. Heenan was “on” and Schiavone seemed to be having a really good time too. By the end they were both as confused as everyone else. 

The crowd was kinda shit, but it was a Vegas crowd. They chanted “boring” during Guerrero and Benoits matches.

I still think Russo was a mole sent in by the WWF to destroy WCW from within.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW/nWo “Halloween Havoc”
October 25th, 1998
From the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Bobby “the Brain” Heenan and Mile Tenay 

Tonight: the biggest return match in the history of professional wrestling: Hollywood Hogan verses the Warrior. As well as Goldberg defending the WCW World Heavyweight Championship against Diamond Dallas Page, Kevin Nash verses Scott Hall and Sting challenging Bret Hart for the United States Championship.

The Nitro Girls dance in the ring.

Mean Gene Okerlund interviews Rick Steiner about his match tonight against his brother Scott. Buff Bagwell comes out and says everyone is sick of Scott Steiner and the nWo not fighting fair so he offers to be in Ricks corner tonight. 

For the WCW World Television Championship
*Raven vs. Chris Jericho (champion)*
This was a REALLY GOOD match. Definitely the best I saw either have in WCW. They both looked great and I really wanted it to go longer.
Winner: Chris Jericho

Eric Bischoff and Hollywood Hogan come out. They discuss Hogan’s beating of his own nephew Horace the previous week on Nitro and the beating he’s going to deliver to the Ultimate Warrior tonight.

*Meng vs. Wrath*
This was an okay hoss match that Meng pretty much dominated until the final three seconds.
Winner: Wrath

Kidman is on the WCW.com hotline chat discussing defending the WCW Cruiserweight Championship later tonight against the winner of the following match.

For a shot at the WCW Cruiserweight Championship later in the show
*Disco Inferno vs. Juventud Guererra*
There was a whole lotta botchin’ going on in this match. Pretty much all on Juventud. At one point he almost took his own head off outside the ring doing a Hurricaneranna or something. It was a good match though. Probably the best one I’ve seen Disco Inferno have (the bar wasn’t high) and one of the only times I recall him winning.
Winner: Disco Inferno (receives as shot at the WCW Cruiserweight Championship later in the show)

The Nitro Girls dance in the ring again.

Scott Steiner comes out and says that Buff Bagwell should team with his brother tonight to take on him and the Giant for the WCW World Tag Team Championships. JJ Dillon makes it so but says if they’re so confident in themselves than maybe if Bagwell and Rick should win that Rick should get his brother in their oft-delayed one-on-one match afterwards? Scott Steiner agrees.

*Fit Finlay vs. Alex Wright*
This was pretty good for a filler match. They used some pretty harsh offense on one another.
Winner: Alex Wright

Ernest “the Cat” Miller is on the WCW.com chat. Lee Marshall keeps going on about “someone else” being the greatest and the Cat keeps arguing with him over that but they never mention who they’re talking about so I’m completely in the dark on that one.

*Lodi vs. Saturn*
Lodi looked like he’d already been in Vegas for a week during this match. I don’t think he got one move in this, what was a match rust actually had a backstory from the Flock ending a month earlier.
Winner: Saturn

Recap of Buff Bagwell turning his back on the nWo and Scott Steiner on Nitro the past week.

The Nitro Girls dance again.

For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Disco Inferno vs. Kidman (champion)*
I hate Disco Inferno but he looked really good in this match too. I actually wanted him to win based off his performances tonight.
Winner: Billy Kidman

For the WCW World Tag Team Championships and a possible one-on-one match between the Steiner Brothers should Rick Steiner and Biff Bagwell win
*Scott Steiner & the Giant vs. Rick Steiner & Buff Bagwell*
The result of this match was pretty obvious when Buff Bagwell came out in street clothes. Thankfully after he double-crossed Rick Steiner he left and went back backstage and left Scott and the Giant to beat on him. Then Rick Steiner won the match when the Giant fucked up and Dropkicked Scott.
Winner: Rick Steiner (new WCW World Tag Team Champion(s))

*Rick Steiner vs. Scott Steiner*
I was again very surprised by this match and how good these two worked. It was going great until Buff Bagwell returned (for some reason disguised as Bill Clinton) and interfered. But Rick Steiner WOULD NOT give up. 
Winner: Rick Steiner

History of the history between Scott Hall and Kevin Nash.

*Scott Hall w/a drink vs. Kevin Nash*
This was another “blood feud” match, just like the last one. It didn’t have the same excitement as the Steiner Brothers one did and it went a little too long. The Jackknife’s at the end were so sloppily beautiful. 
Winner: Scott shall via count out via Kevin Nash leaving him beaten in the ring and just walking away

The Nitro Girls dance again.

For the WCW United States Championship
*Bret Hart (champion) vs. Sting w/a goatee(?!)*
I just hate watching Bret Hart in WCW. It’s wrong. This match really cooled things down. There seemed to be juice behind it but there were so many blood feuds at this show that this one just didn’t matter. Sting looks weird with facial hair. 
Winner: Bret Hart

Did Bret Hart always have different music when he won a match in WCW? 

*Hollywood Hogan vs. the Warrior*
The whole of this match isn’t that bad. It’s slow and the crowd just didn’t want to see it. Even Horace Hogan’s chairshot on the Warrior isn’t as bad as it’s said to be. The fireball part is dumb knowing about not it now so I don’t know what I would have thought if I watched it live. It was just slow and neither looked very good at all. 
Winner: Hollywood Hogan

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Diamond Dallas Page vs. Goldberg (champion)*
It’s good to see Goldberg have a competitive match. This has all the electricity of his matches but also good working from Goldberg. I wouldn’t call this the one Goldberg match you “have to see” (that would be the one against Hogan when he won the title or even the one against Sid at the following years Halloween Havoc) but this is the one you should watch if you wanted to see that he wasn’t just a wrecking ball. And just think; here we are twenty-two years later and as I’m watching this match a friend of mine just texted me that Braun Strowman has just beaten Goldberg for the WWE Universal Championship.
Winner: Goldberg
*_*
This show was unbelievable. Everyone remembers it for two things: having the best match Goldberg ever had and the horridity of the Hogan-Warrior match. But I don’t think people remember it for seriously being one of the best shows WCW ever put on. I haven’t seen too many of their shows in full so it’s the best one I’ve ever seen. There were A LOT of really good matches on the undercard from guys who seldom or never impressed me, be it in WCW (Raven) or ever (the Steiners, Disco Inferno TWICE) and the commentators did a great job of making every match from the main events to filler matches full and center of their focus. The only times the nWo or the main event were mentioned were when it was their turns. Well the main event of Hogan verses Warrior was brought up quite a few times but it was a really damn important match and at the time no one knew the debacle it would end up being.

The camerawork and audio were excellent. They got all the right angles and picked up all the right sound bites. 

To make the show even better they debuted Konnans rap video during the original broadcast but the WWE Network cut it out.

Summer/fall 1998 is regarded as the beginning of the end for WCW but you wouldn’t know it from this show. Everything was firing on all cylinders.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

NWA “Clash of the Champions”
March 27th, 1988
From the Greensboro Coliseum in Greensboro, North Carolina
Commentators: Tony Schiavone and Jim Ross

Tonight: Sting challenges Ric Flair for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, Dusty Rhodes teams with the Road Warriors to face the Powers of Pain and Ivan Koloff and Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard defend the NWA World Tag Team Championships against Lex Luger and Barry Windham.

For the NWA World Television Championship
*Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin w/Precious vs. Mike Rotunda (champion) w/Kevin Sullivan*
Referee: TEDDY LONG, PLAYA
The stipulations of this one were stupid. It was to be broken up into three five-minute rounds and it only took a one-count for the victory, which could have happened at any time. The rounds are fine but a one-count? What the fuck is that shit? They made it a minute into the second round.
Winner: Mike Rotunda

Bob Caudle interviews Dr. Death Steve Williams. He hopes Sting wins and announces that he has signed a contract for a shot at the NWA World Heavyweight Championship next.

For the NWA United States Tag Team Championships
*The Midnight Express (champions) w/Jim Cornette vs. the Fantastics*
This was a good brawl but don’t think it was like something you’d see in ECW. None of the “hardcore” offence was very convincing. Lots of hands up in front of faces blocking chairs. But it was welcomed after the previous stinker.
Winners: the Midnight Express via disqualification

The guy who plays Eddie Haskell interviews Jim Cornette.

Bob Caudle interviews Al Perez and Gary Hart, who challenge Dusty Rhodes for the United States Championship.

They run down the ten seeds in the Jim Crocket Sr. Memorial Cup: 
10. Ivan Koloff and Dick Murdoch
9. Sting and Ron Garvin
8. The Varsity Club
7. The Fantastics
6. Barry Windham and Lex Luger
5. The Powers of Pain
4. The Midnight Express
3. The Road Warriors
2. Nikita Koloff and Dusty Rhodes
1. Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard

Chicago Street Fight (Texas Barbed Wire Match)
*Dusty Rhodes & the Road Warriors vs. the Powers of Pain & Ivan Koloff w/Paul Jones*
This could have been so awesome but it lasted like five minutes.
Winners: Dusty Rhodes & the Road Warriors

Bob Caudle interviews Nikita Koloff who delivers an anti-drug message. He also wants the NWA World Heavyweight Championship.

For the NWA World Tag Team Championships
*Barry Windham & Lex Luger vs. Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (champions) w/JJ Dillon*
This was a decent match but my attention in this show is pretty much gone.
Winners: Barry Windham & Lex Luger (new NWA World Tag Team Champions)

For the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Sting vs. Ric Flair (champion) w/JJ Dillon*
Oh shit, I watched this match like two months ago on one of Ric Flairs DVD sets. I just read my review of that match and all I cared about was “Frankenhooker” Patty Mullen being ringside serving as one of the judges. And then the stupid as fuck ending where time expired so it went to the judges and one of the five couldn’t decide who won so the match ended in a draw.
Winner: draw
*___*
I know this was a TV special but this show was garbage. The whole show ran for less than two hours and the mine event ended after the forty-five minute time limit had expired. The first match just had that stupid ass structure that killed it from the get-go. The Barbed Wire match was just fucking weak. And while the main event had Frankenhooker it had that dumbass ending too. The two tag team championship matches were good but not good enough for me to recommend anyone watch this show. Just watch Frankenhooker instead. It’s infinitely better.

…this show aired head-to-head against Wrestlemania IV

…yeah


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In your above reviews you have two really good examples of deception by wrestling companies. 

I know Hogan was wrestling regularly in 1999 butt he's still Hulk Hogan. Advertising him to wrestle on a PPV and then not having him wrestle on a PPV is a good way to anger people that bought a ticket or ordered the PPV. I've seen Hogan wrestle in person exactly one time and it was amazing because he's Hogan. I would have been so pissed if I didn't actually get a match with him. 

And the Clash draw is the same thing. They advertise the match with judges so you know there won't be a draw and then there's a draw anyway. I love the match but it's wrong to the fans that watched the show. The whole point is that Flair can't be Flair and actually has actually has to win the match on his own.


----------



## EthanR13 (Apr 3, 2017)

*WWE Summerslam
21 August, 2017
Barclays Centre, Brooklyn, New York

Pre Show*

I didn’t end up watching the first 2 pre show matches, but the results were as follows;

*The Miz, Curtis Axel & Bo Dallas (w/Maryse) def. Jason Jordan, Matt Hardy & Jeff Hardy

Neville def. Akira Tozawa (w/Titus O’Neil)

The Uso’s vs. The New Day (Big E & Xavier Woods) (Smackdown Tag Team Championship)*
_Match Rating – ****_
These two teams have been having a good set of matches. This one started out a bit slow but picked up as it went on. Both teams used some creatively tag team moves, included some stuff that was new. One of the better main roster tag matches of the year. Should have been the opener to the main card! The Uso’s picked up the win, and became the new tag team champions.
*Winners: The Uso’s (New Smackdown Tag Team Champions)

Main Card

Baron Corbin vs. John Cena*
_Match Rating – *1/2_
Not the best choice for an opener in my opinion. Corbin’s ring work doesn’t interest me much, and after they took the Money in the Bank briefcase off him shortly before this, I don’t think they had much direction for him. Cena picks up the obvious win in a match that never hit high heights.
*Winner: John Cena

Naomi vs. Natalya (Smackdown Women’s Championship)*
Match Rating – **1/2
Decent match that was better than I was expecting. Nice to see Natalya pick up the win and get another title reign. She is still one of the best in ring workers in the company.
*Winner: Natalya (New Smackdown Women’s Champion)

Big Cass vs. Big Show*
_Match Rating – 1/2*_
Enzo Amore came out before the match and did his normal spill on the mic. He was suspended above the ring in a “Shark Cage” during this match. The match started out very slow, and all you could hear was Enzo yelling stuff from the cage. The crowd were very dead and eventually started a “boring” chant. Enzo Amore at one stage striped down and then escaped the cage, landed in the ring, and got taken out by Big Cass. Cass eventually won the match at the 11 minute mark, which was way too long!
*Winner:* *Big Cass*

So far the show has really struggled to get going. I think they needed something faster paced during the opening few matches on the main card. It’s disappointing the tag titles match wasn’t the included early in the main card instead of on the kick off show.

*Randy Orton vs. Rusev*
_Match Rating – 1/4*_
Rusev attacked Orton before the match started. Once the match started, it was over within seconds though as Orton hit the quick RKO for the win. Purely giving the quarter of a star for the RKO which looked pretty good!
*Winner: Randy Orton

Alexa Bliss vs. Sasha Banks* *(RAW Women’s Championship)*
_Match Rating – **1/4_
Third match between these two, with Sasha winning the first by count out. The match was average with nothing too noteworthy. Sasha picked up the win and became the new RAW Women’s Champion via submission.
*Winner: Sasha Banks (New RAW Women’s Champion)

Bray Wyatt vs. Finn Balor*
_Match Rating – **1/2_
Balor was using his ‘Demon’ persona for this match. Unfortunately, the match was another that never seemed to have much of note. Bray worked over Finn for most of the match before Finn eventually made the comeback and picked up with win. Another average match on this show.
*Winner: Finn Balor

Cesaro/Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins (RAW Tag Team Championship)*
_Match Rating – ****_
Dean and Seth reunite here to take on Cesaro and Sheamus. Early on in the match, Cesaro went out to the crowd and ripped apart a beach ball that was being thrown around. One of my favourite heel tactics I have seen, another reason why Cesaro is one of my favourite’s going around! The match was just really solid classic tag team work, with the heel team dominating most of it. The finishing sequence was really good though, and the titles changed hand. Overall an excellent classic tag team match, with Cesaro being the star of the match. By far the best match on the card so far
*Winners: Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins (New RAW Tag Team Champions)

AJ Styles vs. Kevin Owens (United States Championship) (Special Guest Referee – Shane McMahon)*
_Match Rating – ***1/2_
I thought their clash at Backlash was really good but the Battleground one never lived up to the first one. Hopefully this one is on par with the Backlash one. As expected, they played off the Special Guest Referee component throughout the match, with Shane getting hit inadvertently by both men. Some of this was done well, but I think it became slightly too much of the focus. Still a good match but didn’t quite match their Backlash clash.
*Winner: AJ Styles

Jinder Mahal vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (WWE Championship)*
_Match Rating – **_
So far Jinder Mahal’s reign has been very poor. This match turned out to be very similar. Nothing special throughout, and the ending was a bit weak with Shinsuke distracted by interference and then Mahal hitting his finisher for the win. The reign of Mahal continues, with the crowd very disappointed. Poor booking I think when you have a new superstar on the main roster that hasn’t been pinned before, and that is how they lose their first match by pinfall.
*Winner: Jinder Mahal

Braun Strowman vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns vs. Samoa Joe (Universal Championship)*
_Match Rating – ****_
This should be good if done right. Few good moments early on, with Braun vs. Brock and the spear through the ringside barrier. Braun then proceeded to put Brock through 2 announcers tables, and crushed him with the third. The match picked up again once Brock made his way back into it. Lesnar ended up getting the clean win over Roman, which surprised me a little. Overall a really good match between the 4 big men. The spots were good and they went for the style it needed.
*Winner: Brock Lesnar

Overall Show Rating – 5/10*
A disappointing event overall. The first half of the show was really poor, with a lot of slow matches that never seemed to get going. The tag titles match was very good though which was much needed at that point of the show. The show did have plenty of title changes, which can add some excitement, but this wasn’t the case most of the time here. Main event was good though, which redeemed the show a bit.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Royal Rumble 2001”
January 21st, 2001
From the New Orleans Arena in New Orleans, Louisiana
Commentators: Jim Ross and Jerry “the King“ Lawler

Tonight: the 30-Man Over-the-top-rope Royal Rumble.

For the WWF Tag Team Championships
*The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (champions)*
This was a decent match that was mostly D-Von getting beaten up trying for the “hot tag”.
Winners: the Dudley Boyz (new WWF Tag Team Champions)

Earlier tonight: Drew Carey arrived at the arena.

Earlier tonight: Vince McMahon decreed that in the interest of fairness Triple H will get his shot at the WWF World Championship and Stone Cold will be in the Royal Rumble.

Triple H is backstage with Stephanie McMahon...who fucking cares?

The A.P.A. show one another their Rumble numbers.

Ladder Match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (champion)*
Watching this match and the shots both of them took one has to wonder how Chris Jericho never suffered the same repercussions and conditions that so many of his contemporaries did? This was a really good match. Benoit was so good at selling.
Winner: Chris Jericho (new WWF Intercontinental Champion)

Drew Carey is backstage with Trish Stratus...who cares? This did lead to Drew Carey in the Royal Rumble.

Chyna is getting ready for her match with Ivory.

Chris Jericho is glad to be WWF Intercontinental Champion one more time.

For the WWF Women’s Championship
*Ivory (champion) w/Steven Richards vs. Chyna*
This was a squash that's worth watching for the terrible miscue on the ending. TERRIBLE. They were selling Chyna’s neck injury leading up to the match, and when she did her cartwheel elbow in the corner move Stevie Richards was supposed to hit her in the neck. He missed his cue, she sold it anyway and lost the match. Then they sold it hard afterwards.
Winner: Ivory

Chyna is taken out on a stretcher.

Stephanie McMahon backstage...fast forward.

Drew Carey walking or something...fast forward.

Vince McMahon and Lo-Down in the lockeroom...fast forward. (I think this was when Vince informed them that he’d given their Royal Rumble spot to Drew Carey)

For the WWF Heavyweight Championship
*Triple H w/Stephanie McMahon vs. Kurt Angle w/Trish Stratus*
Like I care about Triple H and the fucking McMahons? ...fast forward.
Winner: Kurt Angle

The Royal Rumble
*Featuring: Al Snow, Albert, Billy Gunn, Bradshaw, Bull Buchanan, Crash Holly, Drew Carey, Farooq, Grandmaster Sexay, Haku, Hardcore Holly, Jeff Hardy, K-Kwik, Kane, Matt Hardy, Perry Saturn, Raven, Rikishi, Scotty 2 Hotty, Steve Blackman, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tazz, Test, the Big Show, the Goodfather, the Honky Tonk Man, the Rock, the Undertaker, Val Venis and William Regal*
This wasn’t the best Rumble. Yeah, Kane was a total star and the last ten or fifteen minutes were great. What’s often overlooked in this one is how hard the Rock worked the match too. The guy was in there almost forty-five minutes with only one break. But the first half (with the hardcore jabronis) was kinda blah, seeing what a loser Tazz had become in just a year with the WWF was sad and Drew Carey was shit. But there have been worse guest spots. Dude just looked like he was hoping that none of his friends were watching. 
Winner: Stone Cold Steve Austin
*___*
It was bittersweet watching this because in my eyes it was the beginning of the end of the Attitude era, but it was still a good watch and better than anything the WWE has puked out in years. The Rumble was fun. The Ladder Match was really good. And the opener was fine. I’m sure the Triple H match was the usual boring ass marathon (it still clocked in at and unbearable twenty-five minutes without entrances or promo). I’m not sure I would have sat through it any other day but my son wanted to get to the Rumble so who was I to argue? The only “bad” thing (outside of a few Rumble spots) was the totally botched ending of Chyna’s match. My son was really confused what happened and it’s hard to explain what a “botch” is to a seven-year-old so I just had to tell him that she “hurt her neck running”. I think that's even how they explained it afterwards but it was clear what they were going for.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

That Chyna botch was so bad that I actually assumed she was heard because I couldn't figure out what the hell was supposed to have happened to her for her to actually be hurt. Does that make sense? Like never in the history of wrestling has someone sold an injury that they got running across the ring. But it happens. When someone seams injured like that I kind of assume it's a weird non-contact injury and it's legit.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

FITZ said:


> That Chyna botch was so bad that I actually assumed she was heard because I couldn't figure out what the hell was supposed to have happened to her for her to actually be hurt. Does that make sense? Like never in the history of wrestling has someone sold an injury that they got running across the ring. But it happens. When someone seams injured like that I kind of assume it's a weird non-contact injury and it's legit.


it's up there with the Vince McMahon "how did they even do that?" double quad blow


----------



## rinkymehra (Mar 18, 2020)

I don't know about you guys, but that sounds like one awesome fucking feud, it would have been money and the perfect way for Randy to end his WWE run. Add that to the list of 100 questions I'll ask Vince if I ever encounter him drunk at a club. How can you possibly say no to THAT? The work was already done for him! He didn't need to book anything!


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW “Bash at the Beach”
July 12th, 1998
From the Cox Arena in San Diego, California
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Bobby “the Brain” Heenan and Mike Teney

Tonight: Diamond Dallas Page and Karl Malone face Hollywood Hogan and Dennis Rodman. Probably some other stuff too. 

The commentators welcome us to the show and Mike Teney tries to convince everyone that EVERY match matters tonight.

“Mean” Gene Okerlund runs down Goldbergs first WCW World Heavyweight Championship defence, which is tonight against Curt Hennig.

Ravens Rules
*Saturn vs. Raven w/Scotty Riggs and Lodi*
Saturn did one of the dumbed jumps off the top rope through a couple empty tables outside the Ring you’ll ever see, because Raven got off the table in Saturn’s plain site. This was a good match but that was one of the stupidest things I’ve seen in a while, even from a guy with wonky eyes.
Winner: Raven

Mean Gene brings out Eddie Guerrero; who has a hair verses hair match against Chavo Guerrero Jr. later on in the show. Chavo has another match against Stevie Ray tonight which is right before the hair verses hair match.

*Kidman w/Lodi vs. Juvientud Guererra* 
Wow, this was a good one. These two worked together incredibly well. Hands down one of the best matches I’ve seen in a long time. A lot of _“close calls”/”he almost killed himself/him”_ though.
Winner: Juvientud Guererra

Lee Marshall is on the WCW chat with Konnan.

*Stevie Ray vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr.*
I really wish I knew how it came about that Chavo had to wrestle Stevie Ray before he had to have a hair verses hair match against Eddie? The commentators were playing off Chavo being “nuts” so I almost seemed like this was something he wanted. Chavo submitted to the opening handshake. That was funny.
Winner: Stevie Ray

Hair verses Hair 
*Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero*
This was a joke match, which for Chavo is fine. But Eddie’s better than that. He can sell a joke match too though. It just shows you how good he was. This did transfer over to an actual wrestling match after a few moments and it was really good.
Winner: Eddie Guerrero
Chavo starts shaving his own head and asks Eddie to do the same so they can be twins.

Chris Jericho was supposed to face Dean Malenko next but Dean Malenko was suspended this past Monday for violating the “no physical contact” clause between himself and Jericho. But Jericho says he will still perform tonight.

*Disco Inferno w/Alex Wright vs. Konnan w/Kevin Nash and Lex Luger*
I was surprised this match lasted longer than an Irish Whip and a...whatever Konnans finish move was. It didn’t last long though.
Winner: Konnan

*The Giant vs. Kevin Greene*
These two were supposed to be in a tag team match with Goldberg and Curt Hennig as their partners but when Goldberg won the WCW World Heavyweight Championship the previous Monday they just stuck them in a singles match. This was Greens last professional wrestling match as the NFL passed a rule at the beginning of the following season not allowing players to wrestle during the off-season. It was far from an Okada seven-star classic but it was passable. He was better than Steve McMichael.
Winner: the Giant

Curt Hennig is on the WCW hotline. He knows what it’s going to take to beat Goldberg: experience.

Recap of Chris Jericho tricking Dead Malenko into physically contacting him and getting himself suspended thus cancelling their match at this show. Good shit.

Chris Jericho comes out to dance but JJ Dillon comes out and gives Jericho a chance to defend his title tonight anyway against someone who’s local and hasn’t wrestled in months.

No Disqualification match for the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Chris Jericho (champion) vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.*
Rey was local and hadn’t wrestled in almost six months due to an injury he suffered at the hands of Jericho. This was a good match with a few botchy botches. 
Winner: Rey Mysterio Jr. (new WCW Cruiserweight Championship)

For the WCW World Television Championship
*Bret Hart vs. Booker T (champion)*
No offence to the Television Championship but Bret fucking Hart was about two tiers above that belt. Every time I see Bret Hart in WCW I get angrier and I’m not even a fan. This match was going fine until Bret Hart got himself disqualified.
Winner: Booker T via disqualification
Bret Hart continues beating on Booker T but EVENTUALLY Stevie Ray made his way to the ring to help him, after Bret Hart had done his damage. Stevie looks very disappointed in his brother and tells the officials he’s is fine and makes him walk back to the dressing room.

Recap of Goldberg winning the WCW World Heavyweight Championship the previous Monday. 

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Curt Hennig vs. Goldberg (champion)*
These two were having one of the better Goldberg matches until like a flip of a light switch Goldberg “Goldberg’d” and that was it. A prime example of Hennig being so good that he could wrestle a broom and make it a good match. 
Winner: Goldberg

Recap of how tonight’s main event came to be.

*Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman w/Disciple vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone*
This was pretty terrible. I hate Dennis Rodman but he was a at least good showman. And I’m not a fan of basketball so I really have not opinion on Karl Malone but in doing my research I learned that Rodmans Bulls beat Malone’s Jazz in the NBA finals for the second year in a row a few weeks before this. A bad match was to be expected but 20+ minutes of boring posturing was really bad. Even the crowd turned on it pretty quickly. Had this been ten minutes and the main event of a Nitro it would have been fine. 
Winners: Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman

Tony Schiavone, Bobby Heenan and Mike Teney thank everyone for watching and wish “Matt” a happy birthday.
*__*
It’s too bad the main event was so bad because up until it this was a really enjoyable show. There were a few really good matches (seriously, seek out Kidman verses Juventude Guererra) and even the outside of the ring segments weren’t bad either. And it was done without a lot of the WCW staples of the time (Sting, Nash, Luger, Hall, the Steiners) or Nitro Girls. Do yourself a favour and watch this show BUT stop after Goldbergs match. Then you’ll be treated to one of the best WCW pay per views I’ve seen.

I didn’t know that Goldberg held both the World Heavyweight and United States Championships at this time. So Bret Hart being stuck in the dregs of the Television Championship ranks makes sense to me now.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWE “Night of Champions”
September 18th, 2011
From the First Niagara Center in Buffalo, New York
Commentators: Michael Cole, Jerry “the King” Lawler and Booker T

Tonight: Randy Orton defends the World Heavyweight Championship against Mark Henry, Alberto Del Rio defends the WWE Championship against John Cena and Triple H faces CM Punk in a no disqualifications match with Triple Hs title of COO of WWE at stake. Punk won’t be COO if he wins, just Triple H won’t be COO of Punk wins.

For the WWE Tag Team Championships
*The Awesome Truth vs. Air Boom (champions)*
“Heel” R-Truth and “badass” Miz. Double yuck. Thank God the Miz kept the rapping during their entrance to a very minimum. Evan Bourne is one guy who I liked better in the WWE. He bores the hell out of me in Ring of Honor and anywhere else but in WWE he stuck out and shone. All joking and whatnot aside this was a good match. These makeshift tag teams make me kinda depressed because none of the guys have done that much since. I know Kofi won the WWE championship but that ended sad and now he’s back to wrestling in tag team matches again. 
Winners: Air Boom via disqualification
After the match R-Truth and the Miz beat the crap out of the referee.

Matt Striker approaches the Awesome Truth and informs them they will likely get fined but they say it’s a conspiracy by Triple H.

For the WWE Intercontinental Championship
*Cody Rhodes (champion) vs. Ted Dibiase*
This was okay. 
Winner: Cody Rhodes

Christian comes out and says he deserves another shot at the World Heavyweight Championship as soon as Mark Henry and Randy Ortons match finishes. He insults the crowd but then gets them to chant for him. Thank the fucking maker Sheamus comes out, makes fun of Christian, says he’d give his uncle Fargusts lucky green testicle to have a match tonight and tells Christian he wants the first crack at him if he gets a match and wins the World Heavyweight Championship. Then he Brough Kicks Christians useless ass. That’s a Wrestlemania Moment, fella.

Fatal Four-Way match for the WWE United States Championship
*John Morrison vs. Alex Riley vs. Jack Swagger vs. Dolph Ziggler (champion) w/Vickie Guerrero* 
Alex Riley? Alex Riley!!!!?? Of all the “blips” on this show he’s the tiniest. The real point of interest (if you could call it that) during this match was Jack Swagger vying for the managerial services of Vickie Guererro despite Dolph Zigglers displeasure of that. 
Winner: Dolph Ziggler

Josh Matthews is with Mark Henry. He says he’s going to win. He said more but that was the gist of it. 

Vickie Guerrero is so glad that Dolph Ziggler won and that everyone wants to work with her.

For the World Heavyweight Championship
*Mark Henry vs. Randy Orton (champion)*
This was not a good match at all. I like Mzark but he was never title picture material. And Randy was phoning it in.
Winner: Mark Henry (new World Heavyweight Champion)
Josh Matthews interviews Mark Henry and he just yells at everyone for not believing in him.

Alberto Del Rio is mad at Johnathan Laurinaitis for something that happened at Raw. After Del Taco takes off CM Punk comes by and gets in Laurinaitis’ face.

For the WWE Divas Championship
*Kelly Kelly (champion) w/Eve Torres vs. Beth Phoenix w/Natalya*
I don’t care who’s in the ring with Kelly Kelly; the match is shit. Fuck, she was terrible. I swear when she was down and supposed to be selling moves she was laughing. 
Winner: Kelly Kelly

BE A STAR WWE, BE A FUCKING STAR!

For the WWE Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (champion) w/Ricardo Rodriguez vs. John Cena*
The introductions for this match were torture. The match was the same old shit. Del Rio had just won the WWE Championship a month earlier but the result of this match surprised none.
Winner: John Cena (new WWE Champion)

No Disqualification match with Triple’s position as COO of WWE at stake
*CM Punk vs. Triple H*
I wanted to simply say ‘ugh” in my review of this match (because I *HATE* both of these guys) but it actually ended up being an entertaining match. The storyline I couldn’t give two shits about. The was a lot of outside interference at the end and Kevin Nash looked terrible. 
Winner: Triple H
*____*
Man, 2011 was a vacuum in the history of the WWE. Does anyone remember this time or any of the guys and their angles? So much of it I’m glad I’ve forgotten. I hated Alberto Del Rio and Ricardo Rodriguez so much. So I was kinda glad he lost. He won the title back like a month later. Kelly Kelly just makes me naustious. The biggest “WTF?” for me though was Alex Riley. I had completely forgotten about that guy. So much of this show is just astrix in everyone involved career. Seeing so many of them made me sad how they never amounted to anything in the WWE. This should be mandatory watching for everyone hoping to go to the WWE.

Another thing I couldn’t figure out was who were the heels and who were the faces half the time. Christian came out, the crowd was loving him, he was playing face then seemingly turned heel but then turned face again in a matter of a few sentences. Beth Phoenix was a heel but she’s from Buffalo so the crowd was firmly behind her. Or they just feel the same way about Kelly Kelly as I do. And I couldn’t tell who were the heels out of CM Punk, Triple H and Johnathan Laurinaitis. 

What do I remember from these days? Fucking John Cena. Every month, every pay per view, every title match; fucking John Cena. 

There was a pay per view two fucking weeks after this (Hell in a Cell). 

The amount of CM Punk shirts in the crowd were almost as hilarious as the Bullet Club shirts at Ring of Honor a few years ago. You know the shirt: the white one with the lightning bolts and the black stripe or something. 

It was nice to see a pay per view in a hovel like Buffalo.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WCW “Bash at the Beach”
July 9th, 2000
From the Ocean Center in Daytona Beach, Florida
Commentators: Tony Schiavone, Scott Hudson and Mark Madden

Ernest “the Cat” Miller the (new WCW commissioner$ and MI Smooth arrived at the arena. MI Smooth leaves to tell someone something and the Jung Dragons come in to fight him, but he beats all three of them up.

Tonight: Scott Halls future is in the hands of Kevin Nash and Goldberg.

For the WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Juvientud Guererra w/the Filthy Animals vs. Lieutenant Loco (champion) w/M.I.A.*
All the teams were kicked backstage as soon as this started and I couldn’t have been happier. That left Juvi and Chavo to have a great match uninterrupted. I’d forgotten how good these guys were. Sadly, things got Russy towards the middle and both teams tried to sneak back out. Thankfully there were two other referees at ringside who kept kicking them out but I’d rather have just watched these two tear it up on their own.
Winner: Lieutenant Loco

The Cat is in his office telling the Jung Dragons “it’s over” but they don’t understand. I don’t understand either. Jeff Jarrett bursts in looking for Hollywood Hulk Hogan because he wants to retire him.

For the WCW Hardcore Championship
*Big Vito (champion) vs. Screamin’ Norman Smiley AND Ralphus*
How many stars are there? I’m giving them all to this match. 
Winner: Big Vito

Goldberg has arrived and he has Scott Halls contract with him.

Mean Gene Okerlund is with Kevin Nash who is confident.

History of Miss Hancock and Daffney’s feud over...David Flair. David Flair. Let that sink in. You’ve tried to forget it but let that sink in: Stacy Keibler and Daffney were fighting over David Flair.

_sigh_

Wedding Gown Match
*Miss Hancock w/David Flair vs. Daffney*
I hated every second of this for so many reasons. Out of jealousy. As a wrestling fan. As a human. 
Winner: Daffney (due to Miss Hancock stripping)

The Cat is backstage muttering and the Jung Dragons are spying on him.

The commentators kill time as the ring crew clean up all the cake from the last match.

For the WCW World Tag Team Championships
*The Perfect Event (champions) vs. Kronic*
You know what pissed me off about this one right off the bat? I’d forgotten that the Perfect Event came out to Mr. Perfects music. So for a moment I thought I was going to get to see him right this horrid show. This was surprising because it seemed at the offset that Kronic were just going to squash the Perfect Event and walk out with the titles in a minute but for most of it the Perfect Event controlled the match. What was even more surprising was when Kronic was in control how sloppy and dangerous two veterans could be in the ring. I was scared for Palumbo and Stasiak.
Winners: Kronic (new WCW World Tag Team Champions)

The Cat is in his office on the phone and he hears the Jung Dragons music but can’t see them. Jeff Jarrett bursts in again looking for Hulk Hogan. He threatens to ruin the show if Hollywood Hulk Hogan doesn’t show up soon. After he leaves the Jung Dragons attack the Cat.

*“Positively” Kanyon w/bad wig vs. Booker T.*
Kanyon was so underrated. He always pulled something new, unseen and cool out every time he was actually allowed to wrestle a match. This was a really good one until fucking Jeff Jarrett interfered. 
Winner: “Positively” Kanyon

Mike Awesome is backstreet with a large Viking lady when Pamela Paulson and her massive fake boobs ask him about Scott Steiner. He says he’s going to win their match.

For the WCW United States Heavyweight Championship
*Scott Steiner (champion) w/Midajah vs. Mike Awesome*
I guess this was a Hardcore match because Awesome was using a chair and the referee didn’t seem to care. And I guess it was No Countouts because they were outside the ring for minutes at a time and the referee didn’t seem to care about that either. Low-Blows were legal too. The Cat came out and he seemed to care. Whatever it was it was a really entertaining fight. The ending was stupid though.
Winner: Mike Awesome via disqualification (but Steiner was stripped of the WCW United States Heavyweight Championship for using the Steiner Recliner, an illegal move)

Graveyard Match
*The Demon w/Asya vs. Vampiro*
So this starts in a graveyard and the first person to get to the arena wins. The lighting was terrible so it was hard to tell what was going on for a lot of it. It ended when Vampiro threw the Demon into a coffin then overturned the coffin into an open grave. He may have thrown Asya into it too. I wasn’t really paying attention.

Shane Douglas guarantees he will defeat Buff Bagwell tonight.

*Buff Bagwell vs. Shane Douglas*
I couldn’t really get into this one. Torrie Wilson came out and that was nice. 
Winner: Shane Douglas

Hollywood Hulk Hogan is here!

Jeff Jarrett is ready for Hogan. He has a plan.

Jeff Jarrett is supposed to defend the WCW World Heavyweight Championship against Hollywood Hulk Hogan next but Vince Russo comes out first. 

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Jeff Jarrett (champion) w/Vince Russo vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan*
Jarrett lies down, Russo throws the belt at Hogan, Hogan reluctantly pins him and he looks pissed.
Winner: Hollywood Hulk Hogan (WCW World Heavyweight Champion)

Wow.

Vampiro has made his way back to the arena (walking right by Hogan) and gets into the ring, this winning the Graveyard Match. A bunch of black cloaked disciples in Sting masks bring a coffin out to the ring. The coffin opens and (not) Sting attacks Vampiro, throwing him into the coffin.

Mean Gene Okerlund is with Goldberg, who is hoping to end his personal vendetta with the Outsiders tonight when he beats Kevin Nash and rips Scott Halls contract up.

Vince Russo comes back out and informs everyone that he came back for the guys that bust their asses every week and care about WCW, not guys like Hogan. He says everything that happened earlier with Hogan and Jarrett was so Hogan could get his way, get the WCW World Heavyweight Championship, leave and never come back to WCW. He strips Hogan of the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and returns it to Jeff Jarrett. But he puts Jarrett in a real match tonight against Booker T. for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship.

With Scott Halls WCW Contract at Stake
*Kevin Nash vs. Goldberg*
Why wasn’t Hall even present for this match? It was a Goldberg match but with Goldberg playing the heel.
Winner: Goldberg

Mean Gene Okerlund is with Booker T., who has no idea what’s going on but he is not going to let this opportunity pass him by. 

For the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Booker T. vs. Jeff Jarrett (champion)*
This match itself was cloudy and the crowd was drained because of all the crap that had happened in the last hour but it ended the way it needed to. This show needed a feel-good ending after the Hogan stuff and having Booker T. win the WCW World Heavyweight Championship was the best possible way to do it. 
Winner: Booker T. (new WCW World Heavyweight Champion)
*____*
There were moments of this show where I thought it was going to rival New Blood Rising as the worst pay-per-view I’d seen in my life (specifically the Wedding Dress match, some of the overbooking during the earlier portions, whatever was going on with the Cat and the Jung Dragons and when I heard Tony Schiavone introduce Mark Madden as one of the commentators) but wrestling-wise it was REALLY GOOD. That Juvientud Guererra verses Chavo Guerrero match was the best Chavo match I’ve ever seen (the bar wasn’t high), the Hardcore match was way better than I expected for a STOOPID match and the tag team match, the Booker T verses Kanyon match and the United States Championship match were all way better than I made them out to be.

Then there was the the Hogan match. That was sad. Just sad. Say what you may about Hogan and his politicking in WCW but he took WCW to levels it never reached before or after and deserved a better send-off than that. It wasn’t Fingerpoke of Doom or “Hogan’s the Third Man”-levels (the latter of which happened four years earlier in the same building) but it was definitely something to get your head spinning for the next hour. That completely changed the trajectory of the show. It kind of took the wind out of the sails but moreso than anything there was the feeling of “what the fuck just happened”?

We all remember WCW dying in 2000 but the crowd was still extremely hot for this show. And it’s not like the audio was edited, I watched this on the WWE Network. WWE would never edit crowd noise into a WCW show. 

The commentators were really laying it on thick with the term “sports entertainment” here. I don’t know if they were mocking something or if Russo decided to go all META or what. They also cut Mark Madden off from quoting Tony Schiavone’s last line from Bash at the Beach 1996 (“Hulk Hogan, you can go to hell”).

In my opinion Jeff Jarrett ruined the show by being on my TV six separate times during its three hours. 
*[font size="4"]"Dwe-doo dwe-doo dwe-doo duuuh”
“Dwe-doo dwe-doo dwe-doo duuuh”
“Dwe-doo dwe-doo dwe-doo duuuh”
“Dwe-doo dwe-doo dwe-doo duuuh”[/font]*

This was Hogan’s final night in WCW.


----------



## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

WWF “Royal Rumble”
January 24th, 1999
From the Pond in Anaheim, California
Commentators: Michael Cole and Jerry “the King” Lawler

Tonight: the Royal Rumble, and Vince McMahon has put a bounty on whoever eliminates Stone Cold Steve Austin. Plus, the winner of the Royal Rumble is granted a shot at the WWF World Championship at Wrestlemania.

*Road Dogg vs. the Big Bossman*
Despite Road Dogg being the Hardcore champion at the time this match was not under hardcore rules or for the Hardcore Championship, so that took away any real interest a match between these two could have had. I thought remembered the Big Bossman being a surprise entrant in the 1999 Royal Rumble but I guess not, because he was also one half of the WWF Tag Team champions at this time. It was an okay match. I think the point was for the Corporation to wear members of D-X down before the Royal Rumble.
Winner: the Big Bossman 

For the WWF Intercontinental Championship
*“Bad Ass” Billy Gunn vs. Ken Shamrock (champion)*
The bar wasn’t very high but this was a much better match. As good a match as you’re ever going to see from Billy Gunn.
Winner: Ken Shamrock 

Vince McMahon and his cronies are getting pumped up for the Royal Rumble.

For the WWF European Championship
*Gangrel vs. X-Pac {RULES!) (champion)*
Referee: TEDDY LONG, PLAYA!
Aside from a really REALLY bad botch on a roll-up at the end this was a good (but short) match.
Winner: X-Pac (RULES!)

Kevin Kelly is with the members of D-X and they say they’re a family but it’s every man (and woman) for themselves in the Royal Rumble.

Shane McMahon comes out to introduce Luna. He calls Sable (who was injured previously on Sunday Night HeAT) out to forfeit the WWF Women’s Championship to Luna. She refuses.

Strap Match for the WWF Women’s Championship
*Luna vs. Sable (champion)*
This was far from as bad as it could have been, even though they totally forgot the rules of a Strap Match. I thought it was once your opponent touched a turnbuckle it like...reset the count or whatever? I thought you had to touch all four in a row without your opponent touching any? Not here.
Winner: Sable

The Corporation is ready for the Royal Rumble, the bounty and the WWF World Championship shot at Wrestlemania.

Doc Hendrix asks the Rock if he will be able to do what no one else has ever done before: make Mankind say “I Quit”. He guarantees victory.

“I Quit” Match for the WWF World Championship
*The Rock vs. Mankind (champion)*
This match was a lot of fun; be it the crazy punishment they both took, the Rock anytime any microphone was in his face or the insane chair shots at the end. I wonder how sick the Rock felt at the end having to do that?
Winner: the Rock (new WWF World Champion)

The Royal Rumble
*Featuring: Al Snow, Billy Gunn, Chyna, D-Lo Brown w/Terri Runnels and Jacqueline, Dan Severn, Droz, Edge, Gangrel, Gillberg, Goldust, Golga, Jeff Jarrett w/De-Bra, Kane, Ken Shamrock, Kurgan, Mabel, Mark Henry, Owen Hart, Road Dogg, Steve Blackman, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Test, the Big Bossman, the Blue Meanie, the Godfather w/two hoes, Tiger Ali Singh, Triple H, Val Venis, Vince McMahon and X-Pac (Rules!) *
This was a lot of fun at the time but watching it now...it really kinda sucks. All that mattered was Stone Cold getting his hands on Vince McMahon, which could have been done any other way but I guess it served its point in storyline purposes. And at least Stone Cold DID get his hands on Vince, something that’s absence has been well documented in all the authority figure storylines since. Aside from those two though it was just a bunch of low card guys killing time and a lot of times where a single guy was standing in the ring by himself. Even D-X didn’t do too much other than be there. It really showed how weak the undercard of the WWF was in 1999 that the final four (as Vince McMahon sat outside the ring) was Austin, Owen Hart, D-Lo Brown and the Big Bossman. 
Winner: Vince McMahon
*__*
I wasn’t that high on the Royal Rumble but the entire undercard was really good. The WWF Championship match was kinda hard to watch at the end but was worth watching the entire show for. And Stone Cold verses McMahon really never did get old. Overall the show was a good time capsule to glory days of yore. Before the dark times. Before Stephanie McMahon was even known of. 

The crowd here was maybe the most Attitude Era-y you’ll ever see. I was on the lookout for the “X-Pac Rules” guy but I didn’t see him. So here he is.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't know what happened to some of the old stays of this thread, like @Emperor Palpatine and @Obfuscation, but yeah, I've been on a binge of mid 2000's wrestling lately. A lot of matches from my childhood. Here's what I think about a bunch of them.

*Angle vs. Benoit, Royal Rumble 2003* - I haven't touched the other matches in this feud in years at this point, but I certainly remember WM 17 and Backlash 2001 as excellent, while Unforgiven 2002 is a precursor to this (like, they are insanely similar) and it baffles me that this has so much popularity and is seen as a 5 star classic while the Unforgiven match is barely remembered. Must be because this was for the WWE Title. Anyway, I've always had mixed feelings on this match. Rewatching it with the mindset of an adult fan with well set tastes on wrestling... it's fine? I feel like it struggles with a bizarre structure - some of the control segments and match act transitions are pretty rough; the pacing of the match is rather wonky too until they go balls out in the third act; there are some very silly moments, like the German Suplex trade-off; the well known submission countering at the end kinda makes both of their finishers look weak, if you really think about it (c'mon, you lock in your submission 700 times and you still can't get your opponent to tap out? It made sense with this feud to go all the way, especially as Angle needed to put out his soul to finally beat Benoit as he had already lost to him twice, but there's still an element of credibility that needed to be protected more); and, more importantly, this match comes as build-up to Angle vs. Lesnar at WM 19, but not only does Lesnar not play any role in this whatsoever, but Team Angle, the goons hired by Paul Heyman to protect Angle from Lesnar and Benoit, are banned from ringside before the bell even rings, making the entire build-up to this match totally moot. They could've told an interesting story with the numbers game in Angle's advantage, but they did nothing with it and that annoys me. Nevermind the fact that it's hard to believe that the same Angle that was going to have an even match with Brock Lesnar - who had already beaten up everyone at this point - was struggling with midcarder Chris Benoit. However, as the culmination to the ongoing Angle vs. Benoit feud, it is satisfying. It really is the story of two incredible athletes who know each other like the palm of their hand, and the hard-fought competitiveness that they bring to the table to get their hands on the most prized title in the business. And it's a Hell of a spectacle to watch, especially when they go all out and start finding increasingly creative ways to bump off of each other's crazy shit and counter the Ankle Lock or the Crippler Crossface. It's borderline anticlimatic that the ending turns out to be Benoit tapping out to the Ankle Lock after endless minutes locked in it, then, but the fact that this was the 1st time that Angle did the grapevine trick kinda solidified it as him doing everything to force Benoit to submit to him and Benoit just not being able to resist any more punishment. I remember the complaints that it stretches believability and that it looks almost 'too' perfectly executed to be bought, but in all honesty, these two always primed me as in-ring perfectionists, so I think it makes sense for their characters to be smooth in execution, even if yes, it does have moments where I think that it really comes clearly more across as a show than as a real fight (not that wrestling is real, but it's the artform of making you suspend your disbelief, after all). But yes, this is fine. It's not bad, it's entertaining, but it lacks in too many fundamental areas to really stand out. - ** *3/4 - ***

Cena/HHH vs. Angle/Orton/Mysterio, SNME April 2006* - This is a match that I haven't seen since, like, 2007 or something like that (I used to have my cousin's WM 22 DVD 2 which featured the full SNME episode from a few weeks before WM 22, but then it disappeared). This match was the opening segment of that show and it was the precursor to the famous Cena/HBK vs. Batista/Taker No Way Out 2007 match, where you had the two Main Events of WM 22 going against each other. All these years later, I think this match is... well, something. Positives: Rey is great as the babyface in peril; Angle is in full Wrestling Machine gimmick at this point - basically Suplex City Lesnar before Suplex City was cool - and his role is to be a machine in small spurts, which works; I liked the ever growing tensions between Cena and HHH (the one between the SmackDown team made no sense given that the team seemed on board and then they just devolved out of nowhere); and the crowd is hot. Other than that, this was a nothing match. Moves happen, HHH is boring, Orton is basically useless, and things turned into a total mess at the end for no real reason. Not good, Bob. - ** - *1/4

HBK vs. Shane O'Mac, SNME April 2006* - From the same show as Cena/HHH vs. Angle/Orton/Mysterio, comes this spotfest, courtesy of Shawn n' Shane. I remember adoring this match as a kid, mostly thanks to the crazy Superplex off a ladder through two tables spot. That spot is still crazy as fuck and I envy the cojones it took from both men to take it. There's also a funny spot with Shane accidentally giving Vince the Van Terminator. Other than that, I did like that they had Shane work over Shawn's back - notorious for suffering terrible injuries in the 90's - after the Superplex spot. Vince is great on the outside too. And... that's about it as far as good is concerned. The match starts out well, with Shawn attacking Shane in the entrance ramp, but then it goes directly into the two setting up weapons and tables and a ladder while the other sells stalls and I'm left baffled by the blatant spotfestiness of it. Again, I liked the back work by Shane, but Shawn pretty much ignores it completely and it leads to absolutely nothing. The existence of limb work is more than welcome, but try have it mean something, bookers. The structure of this match is fucking bizarre and backwards, with them rushing the big spot of the match 3 minutes in. One could say that they're just not wasting any time bringing in the big guns, and I thought that too at first, but then they really did just set up weapons in a phony fake way and that argument goes out the drain. And I thought the way the match was structured was to justify Shane's back work, but again, that back work goes nowhere. Finally, the ending is just another in the million replicas of the Montreal Screwjob. Vince, it's never gonna be the same again. Deal with it. This is just a spotfest, and if you enjoy that, you're gonna have a lot of fun with this, but I like myself some substance beyond spots. - ** - *1/4*


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

*WWF Raw is War Jun 01,1998 Live in Chicago *


View attachment 88000

*Mcmahon & Foley* *segment-* This was an excellent segment between these two. Vince is on fire and has fully grown to be a relentless asshole heel after being more so of a cowardly one originally. Excellent work put into this, Vince going off about his family, making Foley go on his knees. Absolute gold. I guess he just fired Dude Love only? Looking forward to seeing Foley and how Mankind will be introduced.

*Disciples of Apocalypse vs. Legion Of Doom & Puke AKA Droz Street Fight*- This was a fun little brawl even though it was filler and short lived. Always nice to see Sunny in that fire top she's got on, she was missing for a few weeks so it was nice to see that cutie again. Undertaker's pissed, wonder what he'll do next?

*Val Venis vs. Papi Chulo*- Never heard of Papi Chulo before, interesting. Val Venis vignettes were gold leading up to his debut last week, this is now his second televised match. Cut a great promo about how he's got a "gun in his pocket that doesnt fire off blanks" Awesome. So Papi Chulo means Pimp daddy in spanish? Cool, maybe these two can shake hands and form a team afterwards? Overall I was happy this wasn't a generic squash match. Papi Chulo got a little bit of offense and showed that he's a entertaining guy to watch in the ring.

*Undertaker/Vince Mcmahon segment*- Well delivered by Taker even though he said "give" instead of gave or something along those lines. It seemed like he broke kayfabe or at least it felt like that when he said "Vince didn't want me to be the FOTC, i've only had the belt twice" He expressed his loyalty to the company. Vince heating things up referencing his mom being a whore and announcing a #1 contender match.

This *DX & Sable commercia*l for Super Soakers takes me back to my kid days of having a blast with those. Didn't grow up watching WWE until 2002, so it's great fun seeing these episodes for the first time. Let's get ready to soak it!
*Marc Mero vs. Steve Blackman KOTR qualifier- *Boring, uncharismatic Marc Mero gets another babe. This is either Jacqueline's debut or maybe she hadn't been on screen for a while. Was hoping Steve Blackman would've dodged the shooting star press but who knows if it would've been just as boring had it continued on past two minutes. I enjoy Marc Mero being a controlling abusive asshole to women, but listening to him on the mic for too long is pretty much the equivalent to nails on a chalkboard.

"So punch your boss in the mouth day" is officially on 3/16. Great Edge vignette, he slapped someone in the alleyway and he's making me eager to see his TV beginnings.

*HHH & New Age Outlaws vs Rock, DLO Brown & Owen Hart. 6 man elimination tag*- This went by pretty quickly. Funny to see HHH and Owen Hart still feuding this time Owen Harts not the babyface. Owen easily stands out in ring work though all men played a significant role in making this a solid TV match. And Shamrock returns and the match ends in DQ. Here comes Dan Severin and now the UFC fighters look like they want to fight eachother.

Mcmahon's makes a deal with the devil shaking Kane's hand. Fuck yeah!

*Jeff Jarrett vs. Faarooq KOTR qualifying match-* Now I'm not too fond of Double J doing the nature boy walk and using the figure four. He has something going with that country boy kind of feel being introduced as the greatest entertainer/wrestler but he isn't really doing any kind of singing or entertaining yet. I do like his sparkling logo thing during his entrance. The Godwins are now Southern Justice and are coming in with Jeff Jarret's future entrance music. Nothing too noteworthy or exciting about this bout. Seemed like Farooq carried the match.

*Taka Michinoku vs. Funaki Light heavyweight championship match- *Fun match between these two. Especially liked Funaki's offense. And Al Snow dressed up like he's Japanese, LOL! Classic. *Mark Henry vs. Terry Funk-* Probably one of the better matches of the night. Decent amount of action, terry looked really good kicking out of a bunch of splashes and leg drops after missing a few moonsaults and hurting himself in the process. *Undertaker vs Kane #1 contender match-* Id say it was motn. Not too much action in this match but I was anticipating Mankind to come out and interfere especially after the ref got knocked out. Good commentary from Steve and Vince.


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