# Missing out on Talent.



## the_flock

Why are AEW with all their riches missing out on so many stars? 

Apparently they were in advanced talks with Edge, he's now signed a 3 year deal with WWE. 

Naomi was a free agent, she's gone back to WWE. 

Killer Kross is now in advanced talks with WWE. 

Marty Scurll resigned with ROH. 

These are all in the last couple of weeks.


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## K4L318

nearly 50

no one worries about Naomi

Kross aint a star

Marty can still work wit AEW in the future, more now since he locked for 5 in ROH.


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## The Wood

They've capped themselves with their niche presentation. Stars like CM Punk, Randy Orton and probably Edge weren't going to go and fuck around with guys like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. Once they don't go, others aren't going to go. 

Since Double or Nothing and we've had a look at their product, AEW has gotten: Santana and Ortiz, Kris Statlander, Priscilla Kelly, Dr. Luther.

WWE has gotten: AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Cain Velasquez, Lana, Scarlett Bordeaux, Mercedes Martinez. 

ROH: Marty Scurll, The Briscoes, Bandido, Flamita, PJ Black, Adam Brooks. 

I know which list is #1, which is #2 and which is a far, far down #3.


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## AEW_19

You can't force people to sign. When all the faults are taken in to account with WWE, they are still the company that everyone grew up on and they have sustained success.


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## K4L318

The Wood said:


> They've capped themselves with their niche presentation. Stars like CM Punk, Randy Orton and probably Edge weren't going to go and fuck around with guys like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. Once they don't go, others aren't going to go.
> 
> Since Double or Nothing and we've had a look at their product, AEW has gotten: Santana and Ortiz, Kris Statlander, Priscilla Kelly, Dr. Luther.
> 
> WWE has gotten: AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Cain Velasquez, Lana, Scarlett Bordeaux, Mercedes Martinez.
> 
> ROH: Marty Scurll, The Briscoes, Bandido, Flamita, PJ Black, Adam Brooks.
> 
> I know which list is #1, which is #2 and which is a far, far down #3.


the business aint moving anywhere wit any of those signings.

Punk and Orton and Edge are a 2000 audience. Those audiences today are dead or done wit wrestling and nowhere near Attitude Era.

Styles career is nearly over, he even got hurt tonight pretty badly, Nakamura aint a draw, The Usos cant stay out of prison, Cain Valasquez aint turning da biz and neither are those other 3.

None of them ROH signings are money. Marty at best has an X-Pac effect to da business.


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## InexorableJourney

Showing interest in AEW is a negotiating tactic to get a better deal from WWE.


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## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> the business aint moving anywhere wit any of those signings.
> 
> Punk and Orton and Edge are a 2000 audience. Those audiences today are dead or done wit wrestling and nowhere near Attitude Era.
> 
> Styles career is nearly over, he even got hurt tonight pretty badly, Nakamura aint a draw, The Usos cant stay out of prison, Cain Valasquez aint turning da biz and neither are those other 3.
> 
> None of them ROH signings are money. Marty at best has an X-Pac effect to da business.


What are your opinions based on? 

Orton, Punk and Edge are three of the biggest stars in wrestling still. Lol, I think someone is taking a silly MJF diss and taking it literally. The ones that are done with wrestling could be persuaded to come back with a hot product with big stars. I don't know why you're mentioning the Attitude era. 

Chris Jericho's career is nearly over. Dustin Rhodes' career is nearly over. If you bring him in for one or two years, he's absolutely worth whatever you can pay him. Still one of the best workers out there. Nakamura is another great worker with a few years left, and could have been a negotiating tool with New Japan. The Usos haven't actually been to prison. Cain Velasquez could very easily be a draw, specifically for certain audiences, and he's mainstream pub. AEW also would have gotten a perception boost from acquiring this level of talent.

You're talking money like Kris Statlander, Santana and Ortiz are. You could say the same things about Jericho and Moxley that you are about Punk, Orton and Edge. Jericho's literally in the same tier as them, except he's been around even longer.


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## Cult03

AEW_19 said:


> You can't force people to sign. When all the faults are taken in to account with WWE, they are still the company that everyone grew up on and they have sustained success.


You can't call yourself Ellis Island and not sign everyone that's been supposedly frustrated with their current company


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## The Wood

Yeah, that quote looks mighty ridiculous. It's just like their "tag teams _actually_ matter here!" snark, as WWE puts on a tag team tournament and has a show where the tag team division consists of The Revival, The Usos, The New Day, John Morrison & The Miz, Shinsuke Nakamura & Cesaro, Dolph Ziggler & Bobby Roode, Heavy Machinery and, potentially, Roman Reigns & Daniel Bryan. I'm probably forgetting some. That's just SmackDown. 

Yeah, I'm really going to give more of a fuck about The Lucha Bros., Best Friends and The Dark Order.


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## the_flock

K4L318 said:


> the business aint moving anywhere wit any of those signings.
> 
> Punk and Orton and Edge are a 2000 audience. Those audiences today are dead or done wit wrestling and nowhere near Attitude Era.


Jericho is an attitude era star and is the current champion and one of the main attractions of AEW. 

Are you telling me Edge Vs Jericho or Edge Vs Omega, Edge Vs Cody doesn't draw?


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## French Connection

I can't understand how the IWC is sometime that much hypocrite. 

Back in a day TNA was "big", everyone criticized the fact they were hiring every WWE stars running out of contract.
Now that AEW is more protective on their hiring rules, you criticize for the opposite reason.


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## reyfan

Regardless on how good or bad you think AEW is there is still the unknown due to their lack of history, if it was TNA in AEW's position with more exposure etc it might be a different story, it's better the devil you know(WWE) than the devil you don't.


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## JJKING13

If AEW signs Cage, Archer, Harper and the Revival, that will be a pretty good catch for the early part of 2020.


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## Cult03

French Connection said:


> I can't understand how the IWC is sometime that much hypocrite.
> 
> Back in a day TNA was "big", everyone criticized the fact they were hiring every WWE stars running out of contract.
> Now that AEW is more protective on their hiring rules, you criticize for the opposite reason.


When you've got Meltzer on the payroll saying all these people want out and none of them really do, when you call yourself Ellis Island and hype the debuts of everyone under the sun, when your fans will tell you how they'll sign everyone, I think its fair to criticize them.


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## The Sheik

Because all these promotions are more desperate to sign these guys than AEW are.. AEW is trying to create their own stars and not willing to dish out millions on a contract.


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## French Connection

Cult03 said:


> When you've got Meltzer on the payroll saying all these people want out and none of them really do, when you call yourself Ellis Island and hype the debuts of everyone under the sun, when your fans will tell you how they'll sign everyone, I think its fair to criticize them.


The only guy who could have been a huge add-on to the roster, is CM Punk. 
I never fantasized on Orton or any other names people advised here or there.
Anyway I don't think it will change the ratings that much for AEW.


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## The Wood

French Connection said:


> I can't understand how the IWC is sometime that much hypocrite.
> 
> Back in a day TNA was "big", everyone criticized the fact they were hiring every WWE stars running out of contract.
> Now that AEW is more protective on their hiring rules, you criticize for the opposite reason.


TNA would take guys that were fired by WWE because they couldn't go anymore. And people didn't like that they would essentially come in a rule the place. And they weren't helping with the TV deal, because it was already in place and rights fees weren't a thing. 

No one is saying that AEW should be picking up Mark Callaway and getting him to run a motorcycle gang and he humiliates MJF each week. There is an actual reason to bring in AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Randy Orton and The Usos. They are still some of the best workers in the business. You'll notice that no one is calling for Kurt Angle, Ric Flair or Kevin Nash in active or even inactive roles in the company. 

And it's not like they haven't tried to get them. They have. They just haven't succeeded. No matter what Meltzer says about this. I don't know if he's on the take, he's just being nice to his friends, or they feed him a plate full of shit and he believes it, but they _wanted_ Randy Orton to sign. That would be bigger than Luger walking over in 1995 and is about as close as you can get to an nWo angle. 

And if this talent means ratings, then those ratings are going to mean rates fees. Having guys like Randy Orton, who is almost like an action figure come to life, is going to be good for getting companies like Hasbro to the table, and that visibility in toy shops, which kids still visit, believe it or not, is going to be so much more important than having a dumpy Joey Janela figure that comes with removable girlfriend and a stapler. I'm sorry, it is. 



JJKING13 said:


> If AEW signs Cage, Archer, Harper and the Revival, that will be a pretty good catch for the early part of 2020.


Pretty good, but they are nowhere near the stars that Styles, Orton and Nakamura would have been. And it's not the same as luring talent away. Harper and The Revival have almost been forced out (although they do have big offers to stay). But keep in mind that they haven't signed yet. More rumors suggest that Harper is actually considering New Japan, and that might entail signing with ROH. More and more people seem to think that The Revival will stay with WWE. I've got a theory that ROH will make a seriously play and they'll be programmed with The Briscoes and Jay Lethal & Jonathan Gresham and have the best tag matches in the world.


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## French Connection

The Wood said:


> And it's not like they haven't tried to get them. They have. They just haven't succeeded. No matter what Meltzer says about this. I don't know if he's on the take, he's just being nice to his friends, or they feed him a plate full of shit and he believes it, but they _wanted_ Randy Orton to sign. That would be bigger than Luger walking over in 1995 and is *about as close as you can get to an nWo angle*.


This is where I think you exaggerate the impact. 
Of course, hiring Orton for AEW would have been a huge move, but I don't think it will grow the audience that much.
WCW did not win the ratings war when Savage, Luger or Hogan jumped in, the nWo angle did. 
Jeff Hardy or Angle didn't increase the TNA's ratings in a significant way neither (except for Angle vs. Joe PPV buys).

I do not pretend to know the recipe to improve an audience, but I am really questioning the fact you stating above.


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## The Wood

The Sheik said:


> Because all these promotions are more desperate to sign these guys than AEW are.. AEW is trying to create their own stars and not willing to dish out millions on a contract.


They are literally paying Chris Jericho and Jim Ross more than anyone else has ever paid them in their lives. And they offered Randy Orton enough money to go to Vince and get a bigger deal. Tony Khan tried to call him out on this. What was Orton's rumored WWE contract? $2.5 million and a tour bus? Let's say $3 million there. 

I seriously doubt that Cody, Omega and The Bucks are working for chips. Hangman Page wouldn't be either, knowing what his buddies are getting paid when there are WWE and ROH deals to be had. And New Japan pays well too. Karl Anderson might have been lying, but he put himself at $750 when he was with them. Is Page walking away from that sort of money when they could have used gaijin after the rest of The Elite left? 

PAC isn't working for free. He could very easily wrangle a bunch of money from a bigger promotion like ROH or New Japan if he didn't want to go back to WWE. How much do you think Jake Hager makes with Bellator. Why wouldn't he just take big dates with someone else or focus on his fighting if it weren't a sweet gig? Do you think Brandi is getting paid nothing knowing how much money Cody is putting into their bank account? It just flat-out doesn't make sense that they aren't paying millions on talent. 

Which stars have AEW created? To create stars it's handy to have eyeballs on your product. Stars help with that. Which wrestlers are more over now than they were when AEW began? I think it's honestly Sammy Guevara and Darby Allin. And Cody is better off. MJF has never been hotter than when he went at Bret Hart on night one, and he just went in a pool. You could argue Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus now have people that care about them, but Jungle Boy is nowhere near ready to carry main events, and Luchasaurus actually seems to be cooling to me. And they've got the Marko Stunt association. No one else is appreciably in better standing with the fans than they were when they had their outside rep or were even unknown. 



French Connection said:


> The only guy who could have been a huge add-on to the roster, is CM Punk.
> I never fantasized on Orton or any other names people advised here or there.
> Anyway I don't think it will change the ratings that much for AEW.


Yeah, but you are likely a smark that thinks of Orton as "lazy" because he works a chinlock and doesn't find the need to go to the top rope or do a dive _every match_, right? Maybe not, don't mean to put words in your mouth. But that is the only mentality that doesn't seen value in one of the biggest stars in wrestling this century -- and one of the most recognizable likenesses in wrestling -- signing a seven-figure deal to come and validate _your_ wrestling promotion, as opposed to the one he was previously with that offered security and opportunities. 

Orton would have changed the game. No one could fucking imagine what it would be like to see this guy in a different environment. The lifer. The golden child. All bullshit, but if it's real to the fans than it's real to the fans. A 6'5, 265lbs adonis with years of experience at the top coming in with new music and drilling some bitches with his RKO. AEW fans would have went _mental_. And they should have. 

You don't think there are any WWE fans who would check out a different wrestling promotion if _Randy fucking Orton_ signed with them and got to cut loose a bit? You don't think there are any lapsed fans that here that a guy that looked like he was going to be something when they stopped watching in 2005, largely because the WWE fucked him up, has finally said "fuck it" and jumped to another promotion and is restarting the wars? You don't think there are any old school fans that would love to see what could happen if Randy Orton actually got to cut authentic promos and have wrestling matches the way he wanted to? 

Randy Orton is not even 40 yet. TV executives would know who he is. Toy makers would know who he is. Video game developers would know who he is. Having him on your team and in a new environment that scaffolds the talents he has developed over more than 20 years in the wrestling business is definitely a good fucking thing. 

If you don't have a cool $3 million to pay him, fire Joey Janela, Jimmy Havoc, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Jack Evans, Angelico, Brandon Cutler, The Dark Order, Michael Nakazawa, Orange Cassidy, Peter Avalon, Shawn Spears, Bea Priestly, Britt Baker, Emi Sakura, Riho, Leva Bates, Mel, Taz, Goldenboy, Bryce Remsburg, Earl Hebner and Excalibur. At $100k a piece that is $2.4 million. take some of that, put it on red and hope for the best. Because it's worth trading all those people who aren't going to move the meter for you for someone who fucking might. And when you get money from that, you can then pay the people with bright futures to come and in do things with them.


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## The Wood

French Connection said:


> This is where I think you exaggerate the impact.
> Of course, hiring Orton for AEW would have been a huge move, but I don't think it will grow the audience that much.
> WCW did not win the ratings war when Savage, Luger or Hogan jumped in, the nWo angle did.
> Jeff Hardy or Angle didn't increase the TNA's ratings in a significant way neither (except for Angle vs. Joe PPV buys).
> 
> I do not pretend to know the recipe to improve an audience, but I am really questioning the fact you stating above.


They got more than 900k though. I'm not saying that Randy Orton would instantly mean they beat WWE. He's on WWE TV now and they do their 2.3 million or whatever. On Twitter, Orton has more than twice the followers of Chris Jericho. In fact, I think you'd have to add the entire AEW roster together to equal him. That means if Orton sends out a tweet, "Hey, in case you didn't know, there's a new wrestling show. It's going to be unchained and I am going to be unchained on it. Real wrestling is back," over 6 million people are going to see it. You don't think _some_ of them would watch and maybe get hooked on serious rasslin' again? 

People always bring up the TNA example, but people forget that TNA was stuck in the Impact Zone, with the most annoying bunch of fans and some of the most god awful creative anyone has ever seen. That sort of shit is negligible. AEW is in the position to have a pretty product in arenas with professionals fucking calling it and professionals fucking wrestling on it. That ain't TNA.


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## French Connection

The Wood said:


> Yeah, but you are likely a smark that thinks of Orton as "lazy" because he works a chinlock and doesn't find the need to go to the top rope or do a dive _every match_, right? Maybe not, don't mean to put words in your mouth. But that is the only mentality that doesn't seen value in one of the biggest stars in wrestling this century -- and one of the most recognizable likenesses in wrestling -- signing a seven-figure deal to come and validate _your_ wrestling promotion, as opposed to the one he was previously with that offered security and opportunities.
> 
> Orton would have changed the game. No one could fucking imagine what it would be like to see this guy in a different environment. The lifer. The golden child. All bullshit, but if it's real to the fans than it's real to the fans. A 6'5, 265lbs adonis with years of experience at the top coming in with new music and drilling some bitches with his RKO. AEW fans would have went _mental_. And they should have.
> 
> You don't think there are any WWE fans who would check out a different wrestling promotion if _Randy fucking Orton_ signed with them and got to cut loose a bit? You don't think there are any lapsed fans that here that a guy that looked like he was going to be something when they stopped watching in 2005, largely because the WWE fucked him up, has finally said "fuck it" and jumped to another promotion and is restarting the wars? You don't think there are any old school fans that would love to see what could happen if Randy Orton actually got to cut authentic promos and have wrestling matches the way he wanted to?
> 
> Randy Orton is not even 40 yet. TV executives would know who he is. Toy makers would know who he is. Video game developers would know who he is. Having him on your team and in a new environment that scaffolds the talents he has developed over more than 20 years in the wrestling business is definitely a good fucking thing.
> 
> If you don't have a cool $3 million to pay him, fire Joey Janela, Jimmy Havoc, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Jack Evans, Angelico, Brandon Cutler, The Dark Order, Michael Nakazawa, Orange Cassidy, Peter Avalon, Shawn Spears, Bea Priestly, Britt Baker, Emi Sakura, Riho, Leva Bates, Mel, Taz, Goldenboy, Bryce Remsburg, Earl Hebner and Excalibur. At $100k a piece that is $2.4 million. take some of that, put it on red and hope for the best. Because it's worth trading all those people who aren't going to move the meter for you for someone who fucking might. And when you get money from that, you can then pay the people with bright futures to come and in do things with them.


Mate, maybe you didn't read my message above yet. 

I admit that I don't really appreciate Orton personally, which doesn't mean I hate him, which doesn't mean I am a smark etc. 
But I am pretty sure if AEW signed Orton, You would have been part of the people to claim they cannot make their own talent, they have to waste the money of Sugar Daddy Khan to be able to compete against WWE etc. 

Anyway, I don't think the ratings will skyrocket significantly except you change Orton the same way WCW did with Hogan.
This is why I think CM Punk would have been more relevant for this role.


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## RiverFenix

Edge was a wwe lifer, who left on good terms from wwe due to injury and was still connected to wwe at various times for appearances and other projects over the years. His wife works for WWE. He was never going to not go there if he could wrestle. If he was ever in talks with AEW it was simply to get more money from WWE, and the schedule he wanted.


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## The Wood

French Connection said:


> Mate, maybe you didn't read my message above yet.
> 
> I admit that I don't really appreciate Orton personally, which doesn't mean I hate him, which doesn't mean I am a smark etc.
> But I am pretty sure if AEW signed Orton, You would have been part of the people to claim they cannot make their own talent, they have to waste the money of Sugar Daddy Khan to be able to compete against WWE etc.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think the ratings will skyrocket significantly except you change Orton the same way WCW did with Hogan.
> This is why I think CM Punk would have been more relevant for this role.


I'm not saying Punk wouldn't have been a huge get too. I'm just saying that Orton would have been huge. Get them both.


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## French Connection

The Wood said:


> They got more than 900k though. I'm not saying that Randy Orton would instantly mean they beat WWE. He's on WWE TV now and they do their 2.3 million or whatever. On Twitter, Orton has more than twice the followers of Chris Jericho. In fact, I think you'd have to add the entire AEW roster together to equal him. That means if Orton sends out a tweet, "Hey, in case you didn't know, there's a new wrestling show. It's going to be unchained and I am going to be unchained on it. Real wrestling is back," over 6 million people are going to see it. You don't think _some_ of them would watch and maybe get hooked on serious rasslin' again?
> 
> People always bring up the TNA example, but people forget that TNA was stuck in the Impact Zone, with the most annoying bunch of fans and some of the most god awful creative anyone has ever seen. That sort of shit is negligible. AEW is in the position to have a pretty product in arenas with professionals fucking calling it and professionals fucking wrestling on it. That ain't TNA.


I agree with, let's say 99.9% of what you're stating. 
I just disagree in some conclusion or domino effect you are claiming.

I agree you need talents with a certain star power to keep the fan tune into your stuff. and Orton or Punk would be a huge plus for the AEW on this point. 
But I think the product at the end, define or not the ratings increase/decrease.
I mean WCW had a brilliant idea bringing Hall and Nash, but it is the ''realistic'' invasion segments that made the thing hot. repeating this today is just impossible. 
Turning Hogan hell was a great move too. But Hogan in 1995 didn't put Nitro over Raw.


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## The Wood

French Connection said:


> I agree with, let's say 99.9% of what you're stating.
> I just disagree in some conclusion or domino effect you are claiming.
> 
> I agree you need talents with a certain star power to keep the fan tune into your stuff. and Orton or Punk would be a huge plus for the AEW on this point.
> But I think the product at the end, define or not the ratings increase/decrease.
> I mean WCW had a brilliant idea bringing Hall and Nash, but it is the ''realistic'' invasion segments that made the thing hot. repeating this today is just impossible.
> Turning Hogan hell was a great move too. But Hogan in 1995 didn't put Nitro over Raw.


Okay, I think we are misunderstanding each other and kind of getting into the point of arguing for the sake of it. I'm not saying that Orton just standing there with his arms folded in his gear would instantly mean Dynamite would be beating Raw. I think it could do a lot better than 900k viewers, and would add another main eventer that could mix it up, meaning you don't have to do Jericho vs. Moxley forever, and help further cultivate a product that people are going to take seriously. 

Of course it's how you use this talent. I don't think I've suggested anything to the contrary.


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## the_flock

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Edge was a wwe lifer, who left on good terms from wwe due to injury and was still connected to wwe at various times for appearances and other projects over the years. His wife works for WWE. He was never going to not go there if he could wrestle. If he was ever in talks with AEW it was simply to get more money from WWE, and the schedule he wanted.


Reports suggest he had all but agreed to join AEW.


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## the_flock

The Sheik said:


> Because all these promotions are more desperate to sign these guys than AEW are.. AEW is trying to create their own stars and not willing to dish out millions on a contract.


What stars are they actually creating? At the moment the biggest pulls the company has are the established stars aka the ex-Wwe guys. Its a bit like people crying over Rey Mysterio Jr. and Billy Kidman not getting a bigger push than Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan in the late 90s.

How is Marko Stunt pushing the needle more than say if they got James Ellsworth, Grado or Disco Inferno. It's pretty obvious that Disco would have more of an impact with the casuals. 

How is pushing Britt Baker and her putting on a slow botch fest every week pushing the needle more than if they had approached Naomi or actually had proper talks with Sasha Banks. Heck they could have tried to lure the Bella twins out of retirement and it would have been more significant than signing up all the joshis. 

People suggesting MJF as a future champion, is he really pushing the needle more than if they had gotten Eli Drake. Is Hangman Page creating more of a stir than Aron Stevens. Was Wardlow and Jake Hager more important signings than getting EC3. 

Let's be honest here, they are signing their friends and friends of friends. That is their policy on signings, it's not lets sign people who are going to make us a legit company.


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## RiverFenix

the_flock said:


> Reports suggest he had all but agreed to join AEW.


Reports from whom? Did AEW leak that they were close - why would they have done that? So if it was leaked that he was close to signing it was just Edge leaking to leverage wwe. Edge is a much better fit to return to wwe where has has 20 years of history - what would he do in AEW? Edge went back for that Saudi money. Saudi money got HBK out of retirement, got Goldberg back, getting Sting now as well - we're talking seven figures for one match type money.


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## the_flock

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Reports from whom? Did AEW leak that they were close - why would they have done that? So if it was leaked that he was close to signing it was just Edge leaking to leverage wwe. Edge is a much better fit to return to wwe where has has 20 years of history - what would he do in AEW? Edge went back for that Saudi money. Saudi money got HBK out of retirement, got Goldberg back, getting Sting now as well - we're talking seven figures for one match type money.


He didn't sign a 3 year contract for 1 match in Saudi. He's got a similar agreement to Lesnar where he's going to be making appearances on Raw and having a part time wrestling schedule, not just a 1 off. 

Edge joining Jericho and the Inner Circle to fight off the Elite would have been huge.


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## Chip Chipperson

It comes down to one thing and that is exposure. Why wrestle in front of 700-900 thousand people when you can wrestle in front of millions around the world, tour the world and become a lifelong star? Only guys going to AEW much like TNA in the past are those that either are released or those that have had enough of WWE and still want to wrestle. AEW should be focusing on making their own stars rather than waiting for WWE to release big stars and jumping on them.




French Connection said:


> I can't understand how the IWC is sometime that much hypocrite.
> 
> Back in a day TNA was "big", everyone criticized the fact they were hiring every WWE stars running out of contract.
> Now that AEW is more protective on their hiring rules, you criticize for the opposite reason.


I was part of the IWC back then (Showing my age) and I was always in favour of bringing the established WWE guys in even if it was a midcard act like a Billy Gunn or Raven. They were a big help for the young TNA stars and are recognisable to the average fan. A young guy like a Johnny Devine or a Matt Bentley would've learned a lot from going up and down the road with these experienced veterans and working with them night in and night out.

AEW needs some of the same but also need a house show schedule for guys to benefit. Imagine how good it'd be for the growth of say Jungle Boy or Luchasaurus if they could work 3 house shows a week against an established veteran tag team of guys who have been in WWE and perfected their skills.


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## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Why are AEW with all their riches missing out on so many stars?
> 
> Apparently they were in advanced talks with Edge, he's now signed a 3 year deal with WWE.
> 
> Naomi was a free agent, she's gone back to WWE.
> 
> Killer Kross is now in advanced talks with WWE.
> 
> Marty Scurll resigned with ROH.
> 
> These are all in the last couple of weeks.


Edge would have been nice signing even if it was part time Lesnar deal. He has no reason to jump to AEW and go to a whole new company. When WWE offered him huge deal to wrestle like 5 times a year. Marty a midcarder and Naomi wasn't going to leave with her husband there. Killer Kross would have been a nice signing. But he's not a game changer and you can't blame him for going to be with his girlfriend.


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## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Reports suggest he had all but agreed to join AEW.


It wasn't that close. Vince didn't think he should come back. He talk to AEW and got a contract offer. Vince heard and likely said we will give you more as long as you get cleared by our doctor. Basically he used AEW for leverage to get back. He never really wanted to leave. If anything he should be asking for a thank you from AEW right now.


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## The Wood

Yes, Edge was medically cleared and Vince had absolutely no intent to use him for a big moment on a show in an era where he is hurting for stars. That is exactly what happened. AEW forcing WWE to use all these giant names in wrestling. And, to make matters worse, Edge took a spot from a spring chicken like The Undertaker, Kane, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Sting and Brock Lesnar. If only WWE's hands weren't tied and they didn't have to use these extortion masters with broken necks like Edge.


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## DMD Mofomagic

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Edge was a wwe lifer, who left on good terms from wwe due to injury and was still connected to wwe at various times for appearances and other projects over the years. His wife works for WWE. He was never going to not go there if he could wrestle. If he was ever in talks with AEW it was simply to get more money from WWE, and the schedule he wanted.


You just described Jon Moxley. 

In fact, Moxley got noticed in Evolve, which is essentially next's developmental at this point


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Because Tony isn’t the money-mark haters portray him as.

he’s not gonna throw a blank cheque at anybody when they are already doing well


----------



## RiverFenix

DMD Mofomagic said:


> You just described Jon Moxley.
> 
> In fact, Moxley got noticed in Evolve, which is essentially next's developmental at this point


Really - I didn't know Moxley was forced to retire from injury and otherwise left on very good terms from wwe.


----------



## The Wood

People need to stop listening to Dave Meltzer on AEW issues. He gets an inside track with them, but whether it's bias, friendship, money or he just believes the wrong people, he says some absolutely _insane_ shit about AEW. Proof:

* He conflates international and domestic PPV data and presents them in contrast to traditional terrestrial PPV data from 2000 and claims that AEW is, for example, more successful on PPV than ECW. Never mind that ECW was sitting at about 100k buys in the NA market, whereas AEW sits at about 65k. This was also during a period where to watch an ECW PPV, you had to actually get it through your main TV. Now kids with pocket money can watch PPVs on their phones. That was not an option for ECW fans in 2000, so imagine how many just couldn't watch a PPV because their parents wanted to watch a movie like real humans, or something took priority. None of this has ever been refuted by anyone on these forums. 

* The key demo has never been so important to Dave as when it is the only way to spin the popularity of AEW in contrast to NXT. He calls anytime they win the key demo a "win." Compare this to his talk about Raw and SmackDown. Those ratings are troubling. 2.3 million viewers for Raw and 2.4 million for SmackDown, where they do quite well in the key demos, especially for a Friday. Can someone provide me anything to the contrary where Meltzer praises SmackDown for its key demo success and says they won the night even despite having lower viewership? He _only_ does this for AEW. 

* His subjective reviews, which are entirely his opinion and his right, go out of their way to query the quality of NXT versus the quality of AEW. Sometimes he will praise NXT and sometimes he will criticize something awful on AEW. But watch how quickly he skims over the Pac/Kenny Omega/Michael Nakazawa stuff never being explained and dropped. Or how quickly he tries to shrug off Omega and Page doing the exact same spots to build tension each week. This is versus him, for example, calling WALTER's last UK Championship match a bad match, or trying to call out a heel woman calling herself the most talented because she's lying because in a shoot Io is the most talented. I mean...what? They might be what he thinks. Maybe. But he knows better. 

* He says AEW has got everyone they ever wanted. If that's the case, then they want the wrong people. He spins Randy Orton not signing with them as him feeling insulted at their offer. Yet Tony Khan himself goes on Twitter and gets mad at Orton for using them for leverage to get a better WWE offer. If they didn't offer Orton a giant sum of money, then how could Tony possibly know that Orton was after a deal to use as leverage. If they were going to offer him considerably less than the _millions_ he makes for WWE, then him taking the WWE deal isn't leverage -- that's just him signing with the company that is willing to pay him millions. So why would Tony Khan call that leverage? It doesn't make sense. 

* His predictions on WWE's strategy was completely wrong. He suggested that Vince McMahon would be heavily involved in NXT. That was completely wrong, but you've got to question why he said it. Was it spin designed to remind his listeners that it is and always will be a WWE product? Maybe. But that was not speculation -- he was suggesting very confidently that the NXT product would become a gentrified WWE production. 

* His latest bit is about WWE "failing" because they wanted to prevent AEW from getting a TV deal. The truth _around_ that is that the goal for AEW has always been large TV rights, and that will determine their profitability and whether they can justify paying talent a lot of money, providing leverage for wrestlers and a way of undermining them in TV negotiations. AEW presenting a show that could rival the popularity of Raw but cost about half as much? TV executives would go insane over that. There was the AEW threat. Then they did Double or Nothing. Okay, it's not going to be that popular. Their show gets about a third of what SmackDown does on FOX. They are going to be no threat to the WWE's global brand. AEW has not succeeded in the way that threatens WWE at all, and it doesn't appear to have the means of growing much more, if any. *Vince cares about the stock price.* If AEW do nothing to threaten that, why would he care if they are barely keeping their head above water in terms of profitability? To believe that Vince wanted this thing dead, dead, dead because it's drawing 900k on a Wednesday night means that you have to believe that Vince and WWE are trying their absolute hardest with a show they barely promote, recently went on hiatus and is now being used to highlight talent from WWE's _fourth_ niche brand. You also have to believe that Vince feels that his grip on cable television is going to be loosened because 900k people watch AEW on Wednesday. AEW encouraged WWE and NBC Universal to monetize NXT, which has made developmental profitable for the first time in a long time. That may or may not happen otherwise. It also means that you have to believe that this preoccupies Vince enough that he wanted them dead, but didn't get hands-on himself. You also have to believe that Vince is willing to take time, effort and energy away from his other promotional avenues to enter a fight which he "loses" instead of focusing on his stock price. 

Those are just a few examples. I get that Dave is a fan of AEW and he wants them to succeed, but people take him so seriously when he says stuff like this, whether he's made it up or he's got it second hand and just believes it, it can be debunked with common sense and a bit of thinking.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Because Tony isn’t the money-mark haters portray him as.
> 
> he’s not gonna throw a blank cheque at anybody when they are already doing well


He has signed Michael Nakazawa and Dr. Luther to contracts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> He has signed Michael Nakazawa and Dr. Luther to contracts.


Yeah, I am sure big money deals

definitely not two people who can bridge the gap in the back with japanese talent with most likely dual roles

solid analysis as always ?‍♂


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah, I am sure big money deals
> 
> definitely not two people who can bridge the gap in the back with japanese talent with most likely dual roles
> 
> solid analysis as always ?‍♂


Oh yes, would you like to tell me how much they are earning? Whatever it is is too much. If you wanted a deal with New Japan, why would you get a baby oil comedy guy and a death match guy from Japan who did, what, four tours? Especially when the stuff they are associated with on the air is the goofy sort of stuff that promotions in Japan that aren't comedy would try to avoid, because it's some TNA-style shit, and we all know how much they fucking loved Okato. 

The nepotism in AEW is off the charts. Khan has thrown millions into giving Chris Jericho and his EVPs' Christmas cards list sacks of money. That is the definition of a money mark. He _believed_ that Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks would know how to book. Why? Because he's a guy with millions of dollars and some good faith. That's the very definition of a money mark.


----------



## tducey

I think AEW should concentrate on creating their own stars, not try to sign every wrestler that becomes available.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Oh yes, would you like to tell me how much they are earning? Whatever it is is too much. If you wanted a deal with New Japan, why would you get a baby oil comedy guy and a death match guy from Japan who did, what, four tours? Especially when the stuff they are associated with on the air is the goofy sort of stuff that promotions in Japan that aren't comedy would try to avoid, because it's some TNA-style shit, and we all know how much they fucking loved Okato.
> 
> The nepotism in AEW is off the charts. *Khan has thrown millions into giving Chris Jericho and his EVPs' Christmas cards list sacks of money. That is the definition of a money mark. He believed that Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks would know how to book. Why? Because he's a guy with millions of dollars and some good faith.* That's the very definition of a money mark.


but he was fucking right you mong bean ?

that means according to the official wrestling rating from the wrestling observer supplementary division, his status can be reversed from money mark into ‘business success story’

and since I know you don’t own this supplementary publication as there was only 1 printed, you can never prove this statement wrong ?‍♂


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Really - I didn't know Moxley was forced to retire from injury and otherwise left on very good terms from wwe.


He left on good terms. Just because he didn't want to be there doesn't mean they didn't want him back.

And oh, he didn't retire, obviously that was the biggest difference. 

Main point is that it's amazing how much people will bend to make excuses for a company that can't close the deal.

Edge would be there if he wanted to be, he isnt. No need to make excuses why

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

imthegame19 said:


> It wasn't that close. Vince didn't think he should come back. He talk to AEW and got a contract offer. Vince heard and likely said we will give you more as long as you get cleared by our doctor. Basically he used AEW for leverage to get back. He never really wanted to leave. If anything he should be asking for a thank you from AEW right now.


This isnt a positive.

There is a very negative stigma of being a company people only want to use for leverage. It happens in all sports, and you never want to be that team.

I dont know why AEW is having a hard time getting people, but they do need to figure it out, because it will be a bad look

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Alexander_G

Without breaking it all down, I think most workers in the business want to say that they can go down in wrestling history with "working/worked for the WWE" on their resume because it has value whether you had a great or not-so-great run in it.


----------



## RiverFenix

DMD Mofomagic said:


> He left on good terms. Just because he didn't want to be there doesn't mean they didn't want him back.
> 
> And oh, he didn't retire, obviously that was the biggest difference.
> 
> Main point is that it's amazing how much people will bend to make excuses for a company that can't close the deal.
> 
> Edge would be there if he wanted to be, he isnt. No need to make excuses why
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


An explanation isn't an excuse. Moxley was miserable in wwe and left, Edge's health forced him to leave while at the top there and he left on good terms and has stayed on good terms with them. Why would a person who was happy at their job not want to return to it now physically able to do so? Only a lot more money or way better schedule and WWE can offer equal or more money without batting an eye and seemingly gave Edge the schedule he wanted. 

You just want to bend to cast dispersion at AEW any way you can.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DMD Mofomagic said:


> This isnt a positive.
> 
> There is a very negative stigma of being a company people only want to use for leverage. It happens in all sports, and you never want to be that team.
> 
> I dont know why AEW is having a hard time getting people, but they do need to figure it out, because it will be a bad look
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


it's a new company, i am sure they are not giving potential stars million dollar contracts. WWE have the money to do that.

AEW will make their own stars. Who even knows if it's that "AEW is having a hard time" or that AEW don't want to hand out million dollar contracts to get someone. Handing out expensive contracts is where TNA were going wrong. That's where WCW went wrong.


----------



## Garty

Hey Woodsy, just fucking stop will 'ya? Holy shit man, you always have to have the last word and again having your opinions, stated as facts. Your opinion on something doesn't mean you're right. Another users opinion on something doesn't mean they're right either. You both, are equally allowed to have a different opinion. Your problem has been and always will be, that what you're saying is Gospel and that everyone who doesn't see it your way 100%, is a blind mark.

You claim to be "wrestling obsessed". I think it's more that you're just "possessed". For a guy who doesn't watch the show, who doesn't care about the product, who doesn't care for its talent (except ex-WWE talent), who doesn't care what they're doing, who doesn't care how much money they make, or how long a TV deal is agreed upon... you sure as hell have way too much to say on these very topics. You're a hypocrite and a fraud. Other than feeding your massive ego, what do you get out of your "journalism of wrestling" here on the board? And no, you haven't "gotten" inside my head. It's the fact that you go on and on every day with this same shit. I don't think any of the other users have fallen into your word-trap, just so they can reply to what you say. I think we're trying to tell you to shut-up, but you can't let anything go for that to happen. If we reply, you'll hit us over the heads with all of your "knowledge" and if we say, I'm done with you, you'll call us quitters and babies. Even quitters know when it's time to quit.

PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! It was nice and quiet during your absence, but as soon as you were back "home" here, you had to reply to every thread and post you missed out on, just so you could show the rest of us, why we're wrong.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> An explanation isn't an excuse. Moxley was miserable in wwe and left, Edge's health forced him to leave while at the top there and he left on good terms and has stayed on good terms with them. Why would a person who was happy at their job not want to return to it now physically able to do so? Only a lot more money or way better schedule and WWE can offer equal or more money without batting an eye and seemingly gave Edge the schedule he wanted.
> 
> You just want to bend to cast dispersion at AEW any way you can.


No. That is still an excuse.

At the end of the day, you get your guy or you dont.

I dont know what kind of sob story you are talking about being happy, it honestly sounds like something you convinced yourself of to avoid reality. 

They went after Edge, just like they went after a bunch of guys who have said "Thanks, but no thanks" 

At what point does this become an issue to you.

And dont tell me what I think or dont think, if you can't come up with a solid argument, dont blame me

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

optikk sucks said:


> it's a new company, i am sure they are not giving potential stars million dollar contracts. WWE have the money to do that.
> 
> AEW will make their own stars. Who even knows if it's that "AEW is having a hard time" or that AEW don't want to hand out million dollar contracts to get someone. Handing out expensive contracts is where TNA were going wrong. That's where WCW went wrong.


Then Meltzer should have kept his mouth shut about people wanting to leave.

And btw, why can't any of you understand, this is stuff that came from AEW.

They started the "We are changing the world"
"We will be sports focused", "We don't need writers, because writers ain't shit" "They have a stupid creative" 

Half of the complaints come from shit that they promised and haven't adhered to, I hold anyone to that standard, why not AEW?

As for the rest, if you think TNA and WCW went wrong because of ex WWE guys, then you really need to brush up on history

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Then Meltzer should have kept his mouth shut about people wanting to leave.
> 
> And btw, why can't any of you understand, this is stuff that came from AEW.
> 
> They started the "We are changing the world"
> "We will be sports focused", "We don't need writers, because writers ain't shit" "They have a stupid creative"
> 
> Half of the complaints come from shit that they promised and haven't adhered to, I hold anyone to that standard, why not AEW?
> 
> As for the rest, if you think TNA and WCW went wrong because of ex WWE guys, then you really need to brush up on history
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


WCW handed out multimillion dollar contracts + creative-freedom to men with small dicks and big egos. that's why you had kevin nash beat goldberg, jeff jarrett lie down to hogan etc. big egos on ex-wwe guys.

so if aew want to change the world, how does giving contracts to ex-wwe guys change the status quo? the only people they lost out to (publicly) are orton, punk, marty. its all speculation really.


----------



## imthegame19

This isn't mid 90s Vince isn't going to let big names leave over money and age. He made that mistake and it burned him with WCW. While he never feared TNA to grow. So he didn't care when Mick Foley, Booker T or Kevin Nash left for TNA. 


He sees AEW level threat now. So he's gonna throw money around to stop them from leaving. That's just a reality of games he's playing. It's gonna take big name to be upset or feeling they can do more elsewhere. 


AEW will get plenty or talent over time. If come summer they don't have a few of Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Rusev, Luke Harper, Lance Archer, Revival etc. Then people can complain about AEW missing out on talent. But right now they aren't gonna get big name like Edge if WWE will give him Lesnar like deal. Or win bidding war for unproven guy like Killer Kross.


I can't see what the Wood is saying but I can see he's starting trouble by reading the comments. People need to start ignoring that piece of crap more. He's trolling people with his negativity at this point. He's one pathetic person.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

optikk sucks said:


> WCW handed out multimillion dollar contracts + creative-freedom to men with small dicks and big egos. that's why you had kevin nash beat goldberg, jeff jarrett lie down to hogan etc. big egos on ex-wwe guys.
> 
> so if aew want to change the world, how does giving contracts to ex-wwe guys change the status quo? the only people they lost out to (publicly) are orton, punk, marty. its all speculation really.


Your first paragraph makes no sense, considering, that without Nash, Hall, and Hogan, WCW gets nowhere close to where they were. 

The Jarrett lying down thing was an angle.

And why do you believe that only ex-WWE guys have big egos. Is not like they ever made themselves vice presidents of a company only to quit hearing customer feedback because it hurt their feelings. 

I don't know how they change the world, they wre the ones who said it, can you show an example of anything they have done that we can say we never have seen before?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## RiverFenix

DMD Mofomagic said:


> No. That is still an excuse.
> 
> At the end of the day, you get your guy or you dont.
> 
> I dont know what kind of sob story you are talking about being happy, it honestly sounds like something you convinced yourself of to avoid reality.
> 
> They went after Edge, just like they went after a bunch of guys who have said "Thanks, but no thanks"
> 
> At what point does this become an issue to you.
> 
> And dont tell me what I think or dont think, if you can't come up with a solid argument, dont blame me
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


Edge has zero reason to not re-sign with WWE once he believed he way physically able to do so. Period. To use this as some great case against AEW is frankly silliness and I question your true intent. 

Being happy at ones work usually leads one to stay there - That's not anything profound or a sob story - whatever that was supposed to even mean in the context where you used it. 

Edge was World Champion when forced to retire due to injuries. He has had a positive relationship with the company over the nine years since, appearing many times and his wife works there. They gave him the money and schedule he wanted. Wow, AEW really blew not being able to sign Edge - everything completely lined up for them and they totally blew it. 

And I bet if they paid Marty $500K and added him to booking you'd be here casting dispersion at "Of course they signed Scurll what a terrible signing and look how much they gave their buddy - NEPOTISM!!!1!

Shoo Troll, don't bother me.


----------



## Brodus Clay

The only big star you did mention was Edge and he obviously doesnt need the money, he just want to retire on his terms instead of a injury, WWE was always great with him.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Edge has zero reason to not re-sign with WWE once he believed he way physically able to do so. Period. To use this as some great case against AEW is frankly silliness and I question your true intent.
> 
> Being happy at ones work usually leads one to stay there - That's not anything profound or a sob story - whatever that was supposed to even mean in the context where you used it.
> 
> Edge was World Champion when forced to retire due to injuries. He has had a positive relationship with the company over the nine years since, appearing many times and his wife works there. They gave him the money and schedule he wanted. Wow, AEW really blew not being able to sign Edge - everything completely lined up for them and they totally blew it.
> 
> And I bet if they paid Marty $500K and added him to booking you'd be here casting dispersion at "Of course they signed Scurll what a terrible signing and look how much they gave their buddy - NEPOTISM!!!1!
> 
> Shoo Troll, don't bother me.


Ok, so if what you think is true, that Edge had no reason to not re-sign, doesn't that make AEW look worse.

They wasted their own time trying to convince someone to come when DetroitRiverPhx obviously know he had no reason to leave.

I thought you were trying to defend your argument, not trying to make Khan look like more of a buffoon.

In all this other amazing rant of non sensical things and insults, I'm going to assume you dont have a point, considering you are quickly tying to back out of the convo.

I appreciate you accepting defeat

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Garty

imthegame19 said:


> This isn't mid 90s Vince isn't going to let big names leave over money and age. He made that mistake and it burned him with WCW. While he never feared TNA to grow. So he didn't care when Mick Foley, Booker T or Kevin Nash left for TNA.
> 
> 
> He sees AEW level threat now. So he's gonna throw money around to stop them from leaving. That's just a reality of games he's playing. It's gonna take big name to be upset or feeling they can do more elsewhere.
> 
> 
> AEW will get plenty or talent over time. If come summer they don't have a few of Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Rusev, Luke Harper, Lance Archer, Revival etc. Then people can complain about AEW missing out on talent. But right now they aren't gonna get big name like Edge if WWE will give him Lesnar like deal. Or win bidding war for unproven guy like Killer Kross.
> 
> 
> I can't see what the Wood is saying but I can see he's starting trouble by reading the comments. People need to start ignoring that piece of crap more. He's trolling people with his negativity at this point. He's one pathetic person.


Everything regarding what WWE has done with NXT, has been a reaction to what AEW has done.

When Vince is giving everyone the money they want, the length of contract they want, the creative control they want (which has to come back around and bite him in the ass at some point), why wouldn't the talent, especially those who aren't and will probably never be on or near the top, take the riches? It's very easy to make the conclusion, that Vince is trying to monopolize the industry once again, now that he actually has the competition, in AEW.

Woodsy is a mark for his own shit. Unfortunately, he'll never stop.


----------



## Garty

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Ok, so if what you think is true, that Edge had no reason to not re-sign, doesn't that make AEW look worse.
> 
> They wasted their own time trying to convince someone to come when DetroitRiverPhx obviously know he had no reason to leave.
> 
> I thought you were trying to defend your argument, not trying to make Khan look like more of a buffoon.
> 
> In all this other amazing rant of non sensical things and insults, I'm going to assume you dont have a point, considering you are quickly tying to back out of the convo.
> 
> I appreciate you accepting defeat
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


Because he was right in saying that. So, how does AEW trying to make a deal with Edge, regardless of his history, raport, connections to WWE, etc. make AEW look even worse? Would it have been better for AEW to sign him to anything he wanted? No, that's unrealistic, problematic and not a smart business move. It'd be doing the exact same type of business, that Vince is currently offering right now.

Edge re-signed with WWE. Edge did not sign with AEW. End of story.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

Garty said:


> Because he was right in saying that. So, how does AEW trying to make a deal with Edge, regardless of his history, raport, connections to WWE, etc. make AEW look even worse? Would it have been better for AEW to sign him to anything he wanted? No, that's unrealistic, problematic and not a smart business move. It'd be doing the exact same type of business, that Vince is currently offering right now.
> 
> Edge re-signed with WWE. Edge did not sign with AEW. End of story.


Because why chase a person who has no interest. 

It makes you look weak, pathetic and desperate. 

What you are saying is equivalent to a guy asking a happily married woman on a date.

Which is hilarious, that you look at that as a positive.

"Hey, Adam, we know you love WWE, but could you come work for us, we can give you money.... I understand if you don't think it is worth it though, I know how much you love WWE"

Y'all need to stop your foolishness

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Roxinius

guys stop feeding the aew hating trolls


----------



## K4L318

the_flock said:


> Jericho is an attitude era star and is the current champion and one of the main attractions of AEW.
> 
> Are you telling me Edge Vs Jericho or Edge Vs Omega, Edge Vs Cody doesn't draw?


nah. Not anymore. Edge is an ok talent that gets the sympathy pop, he aint no needle moving star.

Jericho is a main event draw, proven in multiple promotions including as a rock band in his tours. Adam Copeland is not.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Roxinius said:


> guys stop feeding the aew hating trolls


Was about to reply to the troll and then I saw this post. Thank you for the reminder.


----------



## Alexander_G

K4L318 said:


> nah. Not anymore. Edge is an ok talent that gets the sympathy pop, he aint no needle moving star.
> 
> Jericho is a main event draw, proven in multiple promotions including as a rock band in his tours. Adam Copeland is not.


What is this? Edge vs Jericho would be the talk of the wrestling world and draw enormous numbers. Edge is definitely as big of a star as Jericho.


----------



## K4L318

Alexander_G said:


> What is this? Edge vs Jericho would be the talk of the wrestling world and draw enormous numbers. Edge is definitely as big of a star as Jericho.


Nah. Ya too much of a mark to see it. Ya really havent paid attention to wrestling today. The past 5 years Brock barely puts asses in seats which is why they bring him in and out every few months and lengthen his title reigns.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

optikk sucks said:


> Was about to reply to the troll and then I saw this post. Thank you for the reminder.


I hope it was me, it was becoming boring with how circular your arguments kept becoming. 

I'm kinda happy you realized how little you were adding

Sa thg what you want about the Wood, but at least he doesn't run away when his points are challenged.

I honestly wish he disagreed with me on this, I could use the debate

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

K4L318 said:


> Nah. Ya too much of a mark to see it. Ya really havent paid attention to wrestling today. The past 5 years Brock barely puts asses in seats which is why they bring him in and out every few months and lengthen his title reigns.


I love when obvious marks try to insult people with valid opinions.

My man, AEW wanted Edge, no one in here came up with that idea on their own.

You are basically saying Tony Khan is a fool for offering him a contract.

How are you defending the company by saying an idea they had was stupid.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## K4L318

DMD Mofomagic said:


> I love when obvious marks try to insult people with valid opinions.
> 
> My man, AEW wanted Edge, no one in here came up with that idea on their own.
> 
> You are basically saying Tony Khan is a fool for offering him a contract.
> 
> How are you defending the company by saying an idea they had was stupid.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


I aint.

not denying dat my dukes.

yeah.

I didnt. I said he aint a needle mover.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

K4L318 said:


> I aint.
> 
> not denying dat my dukes.
> 
> yeah.
> 
> I didnt. I said he aint a needle mover.


If your point is that Tony Khan is a money mark playing himself by getting suckered into ANOTHER bidding war that no one thought he could win, 

Then I am in all agreement.



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## El Hammerstone

When I look at NXT's roster and then at guys like Janella, Stunt (especially), Nakazawa, Spears, Cutler, QT Marshall, and Sonny Kiss; I realize how much the midcard in this company sucks and how much better guys like Hammerstone, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee, Jacob Fatu, Killer Kross, etc. would make it look. 

All this talk about the company wanting to build new stars before going out and making significant signings; how about signing some new talent that one can consider far more worthy of being built into these 'new stars'. If a casual viewer were to flip on NXT and see athletes the likes of Keith Lee, Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Dragunov, Austin Theory, WALTER, Shayna Baszler, or Rhea Ripley and then switch to AEW and see Marko Stunt flossing and getting near falls on Chris Jericho; do you think they are going to see AEW as the real deal? Rhetorical question, because the answer is no.

In fact, I can guarantee that the possibility of having to play along with someone like Marko Stunt would be weighing on the mind of a talented wrestler trying to decide between which company to sign with, it's a terrible look.


----------



## K4L318

DMD Mofomagic said:


> If your point is that Tony Khan is a money mark playing himself by getting suckered into ANOTHER bidding war that no one thought he could win,
> 
> Then I am in all agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


nah, my point is he saw Edge as Jericho's friend and a known face. Not that it would have been a great get. Let's see what happens to Adam wouldnt draw a dime on TNT.


----------



## K4L318

El Hammerstone said:


> When I look at NXT's roster and then at guys like Janella, Stunt (especially), Nakazawa, Spears, Cutler, QT Marshall, and Sonny Kiss; I realize how much the midcard in this company sucks and how much better guys like Hammerstone, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee, Jacob Fatu, Killer Kross, etc. would make it look.
> 
> All this talk about the company wanting to build new stars before going out and making significant signings; how about signing some new talent that one can consider far more worthy of being built into these 'new stars'. If a casual viewer were to flip on NXT and see athletes the likes of Keith Lee, Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Dragunov, Austin Theory, WALTER, Shayna Baszler, or Rhea Ripley and then switch to AEW and see Marko Stunt flossing and getting near falls on Chris Jericho; do you think they are going to see AEW as the real deal? Rhetorical question, because the answer is no.
> 
> In fact, I can guarantee that the possibility of having to play along with someone like Marko Stunt would be weighing on the mind of a talented wrestler trying to decide between which company to sign with, it's a terrible look.


There ya go. Finally a smart fan. 

Ya almost made a point but didnt realize a taped show on a boat beat their NXT stars. So they do see it as a bigger deal as they fill actual arenas and not just studio college space of 400 capacity. 

That is a real major issue in AEW. They need to let Marko just be dat small dude. He potentially can kill the level a big guy is building since hes not getting murdered.


----------



## RiverFenix

Who owns "Edge" anyways? Is it a WWE trademark or does Copeland own it? I'd guess the former in this instance. 

Adam Copeland vs Kenny Omega and Adam Copeland vs Jon Moxley are basically the only two matches I'd have wanted to see. I'd be scared for Adam's health to see Copeland vs PAC. We're also not sure if he can still go in ring and to what level.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

K4L318 said:


> nah, my point is he saw Edge as Jericho's friend and a known face. Not that it would have been a great get. Let's see what happens to Adam wouldnt draw a dime on TNT.


So he went after Edge because he is Jericho's friend? You hit a source on this boss, or you just trying to sound like you do. 

Because I would like to take a sec to read that

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## K4L318

DMD Mofomagic said:


> So he went after Edge because he is Jericho's friend? You hit a source on this boss, or you just trying to sound like you do.
> 
> Because I would like to take a sec to read that
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


more than this guy is going to change da bizness. 

You do that.


----------



## K4L318

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Who owns "Edge" anyways? Is it a WWE trademark or does Copeland own it? I'd guess the former in this instance.
> 
> Adam Copeland vs Kenny Omega and Adam Copeland vs Jon Moxley are basically the only two matches I'd have wanted to see. I'd be scared for Adam's health to see Copeland vs PAC. We're also not sure if he can still go in ring and to what level.


A WWE trademark. 

Nah yo, those neck surgeries werent real.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> Yeah, that quote looks mighty ridiculous. It's just like their "tag teams _actually_ matter here!" snark, as WWE puts on a tag team tournament and has a show where the tag team division consists of The Revival, The Usos, The New Day, John Morrison & The Miz, Shinsuke Nakamura & Cesaro, Dolph Ziggler & Bobby Roode, Heavy Machinery and, potentially, Roman Reigns & Daniel Bryan. I'm probably forgetting some. That's just SmackDown.
> 
> Yeah, I'm really going to give more of a fuck about The Lucha Bros., Best Friends and The Dark Order.


You named the Revival and a bunch of teams that no one gives a crap about and arent very good. Best Friends level, comparing them to the Lucha Bros is ridiculous. WWE has one team, Revival, that would be on the level of the top teams in AEW.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

As far as this topic goes, other than CM Punk, Austin Theory, and soon Killer Kross...we haven't lost out on anything. Edge is all sunshine and rainbows in the WWE but had he shown up in AEW he would be "old, washed up WWE reject." He wouldn't move the needle for the promotion, Edge has never been a draw, he fits perfect in WWE with all the fossils. Maybe they can have a 4 way with Goldberg/Edge/Taker/Batista soon lol. 

Punk was the crippling loss, everything was lined up for them to sign him and Kahn should have wrote the check it took to get him. He lowballed him, like he did Orton & Edge, problem is that Punk is a much bigger star than the other two and was absolutely ideal for the renegade image that is AEW.

I am glad they didn't sign Marty, last thing we needed was another 160 lb wrestler. Like someone above said, he is XPac level at best, problem is The Elite arent as big as The nWo so he doesn't fit here like Syxx did in WCW or XPac with DX.


----------



## Zapato

I’m not sure why people are getting so over eager for a rush of talent. AEW need to be selective and hire the right guys rather than anyone who comes available, that’s TNA level idiocy, even WCW at times. You don’t have to hire anyone that worked for the other company or hot talk on the indies for a minute, you hire the guys you can mould and then you actually make people care about them. AEW’s main issue still for me is they are not getting the talent they have over enough, they hide too much away on YouTube. I don’t have time to hunt all that stuff down. Sure they could have hired Edge, but why not instead hire three/four guys (and more arguably women) that echelon below and actually build them up. And stop randomly introducing guys expecting us to know who they are, build them up.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

They barely use the roster they have. They don't need 15 new guys.


----------



## Pippen94

Wwe beat wcw by creating own stars from mid card cast offs such as Austin, Foley & HHH. Wcw brought in main event talent & eventually went bust. I wouldn't be worried on missing out.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

Zapato said:


> I’m not sure why people are getting so over eager for a rush of talent. AEW need to be selective and hire the right guys rather than anyone who comes available, that’s TNA level idiocy, even WCW at times. You don’t have to hire anyone that worked for the other company or hot talk on the indies for a minute, you hire the guys you can mould and then you actually make people care about them. AEW’s main issue still for me is they are not getting the talent they have over enough, they hide too much away on YouTube. I don’t have time to hunt all that stuff down. Sure they could have hired Edge, but why not instead hire three/four guys (and more arguably women) that echelon below and actually build them up. And stop randomly introducing guys expecting us to know who they are, build them up.


Because the guy who Tony Khan has said is one of his biggest influences in wrestling reported that "People can't wait to leave WWE to go to AEW" 

Joe Koff, Court Bauer, and other companies weren't flexing like AEW was doing a few months ago.

This is what happens when you get held accountable for what you say. Thr people now moving the goal posts pretending they weren't part of it are trying to just save face. 

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## El Hammerstone

Undertaker23RKO said:


> They barely use the roster they have. They don't need 15 new guys.


How about replacing losers like Stunt and Janella with more talented guys? Because that's the basis of this argument. People constantly cite the number of wrestlers on the roster, but when so much of it is occupied by easily disposable "talent", that argument means nothing.


----------



## imthegame19

LOL at anyone saying it makes AEW look bad. That Edge decided to stay i. WWE where he's been with since 1998. That's like saying WCW looked bad when Bret Hart decided to stay in WWF in 1996. I guess WWE must look bad after all the people who joined AEW that WWE wanted. Man the attempt at trolling is really weak by these haters/trolls. I almost wanna take them off ignore to get a laugh. I could only imagine how bad the Wood negative spin was on this news lol.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

El Hammerstone said:


> How about replacing losers like Stunt and Janella with more talented guys? Because that's the basis of this argument. People constantly cite the number of wrestlers on the roster, but when so much of it is occupied by easily disposable "talent", that argument means nothing.


Cool, use Allin, Wardlow, Hager, Sabian, Havoc, and Spears more then. We are 4 months into the show. Stunt is a trios guy and has nothing to do with singles matches. Janella is whatever. I'm not against upgrading the talent but it doesn't matter if it isn't utilized.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Cool, use Allin, Wardlow, Hager, Sabian, Havoc, and Spears more then. We are 4 months into the show. Stunt is a trios guy and has nothing to do with singles matches. Janella is whatever. I'm not against upgrading the talent but it doesn't matter if it isn't utilized.


Spears is just a guy, nothing special about him; and Havoc is a novelty. Stunt despite being a trios guy is still being showcased constantly, having guys sell for him which makes them look like complete idiots, and even scoring near falls against the champion; Stunt is gradually getting in more and more offense as the weeks go on, and mark my words, they are building him up to actually pin someone and pass him off as their "dreams do come true" feel good story, meanwhile, whoever eats that pinfall will lose all credibility. Them properly utilizing guys is a whole other matter, they definitely need to work on that as well; it doesn't take away from the fact that they can still put themselves in a better position by having better talent waiting in the wings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> Spears is just a guy, nothing special about him; and Havoc is a novelty. Stunt despite being a trios guy is still being showcased constantly, having guys sell for him which makes them look like complete idiots, and even scoring near falls against the champion; Stunt is gradually getting in more and more offense as the weeks go on, and mark my words, they are building him up to actually pin someone and pass him off as their "dreams do come true" feel good story, meanwhile, whoever eats that pinfall will lose all credibility. Them properly utilizing guys is a whole other matter, they definitely need to work on that as well; it doesn't take away from the fact that they can still put themselves in a better position by having better talent waiting in the wings.


Fucking hell.... you’re a rejoiner, aren‘t you?

i recognise that self-important writing style

fucking bye dude - learn to take a ban like a man and stop bothering us with your shittakes ?‍♂

ignore train chooo chooooo


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fucking hell.... you’re a rejoiner, aren‘t you?
> 
> i recognise that self-important writing style
> 
> fucking bye dude - learn to take a ban like a man and stop bothering us with your shittakes ?‍♂
> 
> ignore train chooo chooooo


Waves goodbye to ignore train


----------



## Jazminator

Some of you are acting like this pro wrestling thing is new to you. Newsflash: No one company is going to sign all the wrestlers.

AEW is going to get its share of new talent. So will NWA, ROH, Impact, NJPW, etc. The WWE is still far and away the "top dog" and probably always will be, so they'll get the lion's share of talent. A lot of wrestlers (like Edge, apparently) will use AEW has a way to land more lucrative contracts from the WWE. That's a good thing.

Be grateful for the WWE. Be grateful for AEW. Be grateful for the smaller companies and even the so-called "indy" companies. They all feed off each other and help keep the industry going. Wrestling today is a lot better off than, say, 10-15 years ago. Enjoy it.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

the_flock said:


> Why are AEW with all their riches missing out on so many stars?
> 
> Apparently they were in advanced talks with Edge, he's now signed a 3 year deal with WWE.
> 
> Naomi was a free agent, she's gone back to WWE.
> 
> Killer Kross is now in advanced talks with WWE.
> 
> Marty Scurll resigned with ROH.
> 
> These are all in the last couple of weeks.


I don't think you have good examples and I don't think they're being "beaten" out by other companies. Edge would never wrestle somewhere else besides WWE; not even a consideration of AEW. Naomi would never fit in or wrestle in AEW; her husband is set for life in WWE. Killer Kross was outsmarted because WWE poached his girlfriend and ain't no man turning down Scarlett. 

Marty Scrull is the one person I could see an argument for. But, with Marty in charge of piece of ROH, who's to say they don't cut a deal with AEW thanks to that. Could be a longer term plan.

AEW just recently signed all the best women (surprisingly), Butcher & Blade, Brian Cage. They're getting top names. At least for me, I don't want them filling up a roster for the sake of taking things from the competition. WWE is stacking their roster and using 20% of it, just to keep people from AEW. AEW is stacking their roster and 95% of it gets TV time or AEW Dark time. It's up to the wrestler. You can either wrestle or be sidelined getting paid (honestly I'd choose sidelined).


----------



## Jeripunk99

WWE didnt get Punk. He signed with Fox


----------



## French Connection

Why all the time, people have to speak about Stunt, Janella or S.Kiss to pretend AEW are missing talents?
This is the bloody undercard (maybe the midcard for JJ at much), come on!

Some people claimed the RR last night was _"the best PPV of the decade" _(cf @Cult03 here), while recognizing the best match was only the males' battle royale (cf @The Wood here). 
Honestly, who care about the lower midcard? I think AEW can do better, but the uppermidcard is not that bad. 

For example, I was feeling off the main event of All Out due to the poor reaction Adam Page received, and he was clearly not ready for the main event back in that day.
However today, Page is getting a very positive crowd reaction and I think he could be a good draw in the coming months.


----------



## El Hammerstone

French Connection said:


> Why all the time, people have to speak about Stunt, Janella or S.Kiss to pretend AEW are missing talents?
> This is the bloody undercard (maybe the midcard for JJ at much), come on!


In the case of Stunt, it's that his mere presence will make the company look like a joke to the casual viewer who may happen upon the show; a company needs their lower card guys that are there to put over other talent with more potential, I get that, but at the very least a guy like Brandon Cutler will present himself as something of a serious athlete and people could just shrug him off, with Marko Stunt, anything he does will come off as a joke and other talents will lose legitimacy having to sell for him. If you took a bland nobody from the indies (and I'm not saying they should) that had no marketable look or mic ability but could simply wrestle a decent match, and AEW put him out there against someone with real potential, at the very least this bland nobody would put on a competent 3-4 minute match that could be taken seriously due to who his opponent was, and a casual viewer would not be compelled to see it as comedy and want to roll their eyes and change the channel.


----------



## RapShepard

I mean it's okay to admit they've been dropping the ball on getting names. They're still doing fine, but they could use more big names. When they're getting folk like Dr. Luthor it's a bad look and no excuse they're not getting better talent. You don't have to go all old school TNA and use big names to bury your rosters, but more actual known names would help them immensely. 


They really need to clean up with the rumored next round of folk in The Revival, Harper, Hardy, and Kross since he isn't officially off the table. If they don't start being more than a negotiation tactic they run the risk as being seen as undesirable unless you just really want the fuck out of somewhere.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> I mean it's okay to admit they've been dropping the ball on getting names. They're still doing fine, but they could use more big names. When they're getting folk like Dr. Luthor it's a bad look and no excuse they're not getting better talent. You don't have to go all old school TNA and use big names to bury your rosters, but more actual known names would help them immensely.
> 
> 
> They really need to clean up with the rumored next round of folk in The Revival, Harper, Hardy, and Kross since he isn't officially off the table. If they don't start being more than a negotiation tactic they run the risk as being seen as undesirable unless you just really want the fuck out of somewhere.


No they don't. Just focus building with what they got. New talent will always join at some point.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> No they don't. Just focus building with what they got. New talent will always join at some point. Big name free agents didn't help TNA or wcw long term


They really do, it's seen all the time in similar industries. Take a look at something like the New York Knicks in the NBA. When you get the reputation as a place that people don't want to be, it becomes hard to get big name free agents. 

As far as WCW and TNA I'll say this, you can look at what they did right and what they did wrong and act accordingly. WCW getting big names and having a big angle helped them. What hurt them was giving those big names too much power which caused them to be unable to build the future. Why not go in the middle of "hey your a name we can use be it midcard or main event, but no you will not be deciding your booking". 

Folk have to realize that there's a healthy middle ground to be found when looking at the mistake WWE, WCW, and TNA have made.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean it's okay to admit they've been dropping the ball on getting names. They're still doing fine, but they could use more big names. When they're getting folk like Dr. Luthor it's a bad look and no excuse they're not getting better talent. You don't have to go all old school TNA and use big names to bury your rosters, but more actual known names would help them immensely.
> 
> 
> They really need to clean up with the rumored next round of folk in The Revival, Harper, Hardy, and Kross since he isn't officially off the table. If they don't start being more than a negotiation tactic they run the risk as being seen as undesirable unless you just really want the fuck out of somewhere.


the first I would classify as ‘dropping the ball’ would be Kross, Harper, Revival

Much as a I like Marty, no way they were paying 500k + giving him the book for it

Much as I hoped for Punk, in what world is he worth the 15m he wanted? (even worth less now with backstage)

Kross I can still let go as I think WWE might throw the blank cheque at him - but the other 2 should be a ‘gimme’


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> They really do, it's seen all the time in similar industries. Take a look at something like the New York Knicks in the NBA. When you get the reputation as a place that people don't want to be, it becomes hard to get big name free agents.
> 
> As far as WCW and TNA I'll say this, you can look at what they did right and what they did wrong and act accordingly. WCW getting big names and having a big angle helped them. What hurt them was giving those big names too much power which caused them to be unable to build the future. Why not go in the middle of "hey your a name we can use be it midcard or main event, but no you will not be deciding your booking".
> 
> Folk have to realize that there's a healthy middle ground to be found when looking at the mistake WWE, WCW, and TNA have made.


Players don't want to go to Knicks for a variety of reasons; media scrutiny, back office, losing culture. I haven't read anything negative about aew thus far. 
Long term building own identity & stars is better. Stocking roster with free agents just hotshotting


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but he was fucking right you mong bean ?
> 
> that means according to the official wrestling rating from the wrestling observer supplementary division, his status can be reversed from money mark into ‘business success story’
> 
> and since I know you don’t own this supplementary publication as there was only 1 printed, you can never prove this statement wrong ?‍♂


No, he was not right. A lot of the signings AEW have made have been criticized to hell and have earned him the nickname "Jacksonville Dixie." The creative of AEW has been panned outside the main event programs. Tony Khan is the very definition of money mark. Having the capital to get this thing on TNT doesn't make you any less of a money mark. 



optikk sucks said:


> it's a new company, i am sure they are not giving potential stars million dollar contracts. WWE have the money to do that.
> 
> AEW will make their own stars. Who even knows if it's that "AEW is having a hard time" or that AEW don't want to hand out million dollar contracts to get someone. Handing out expensive contracts is where TNA were going wrong. That's where WCW went wrong.


It being a new company is the perfect reason to do that, if you can afford to, which they clearly can. How does AEW plan to make stars? Any day now would be nice. 

Handing out expensive contracts is not where TNA went wrong. TNA went wrong with creative and being stuck with the perception of being a retirement home for guys WWE was done with who used the company as a vanity project. WCW didn't go wrong handing out expensive contracts. They went wrong because Eric Bischoff is an idiot who thought the only way forward, even past 1997, was Hogan. He ignored so much data as to who could be stars and lost a lot of money on bad investments. When WCW was losing money, _then_ those contracts became an issue. 



Garty said:


> Hey Woodsy, just fucking stop will 'ya? Holy shit man, you always have to have the last word and again having your opinions, stated as facts. Your opinion on something doesn't mean you're right. Another users opinion on something doesn't mean they're right either. You both, are equally allowed to have a different opinion. Your problem has been and always will be, that what you're saying is Gospel and that everyone who doesn't see it your way 100%, is a blind mark.
> 
> You claim to be "wrestling obsessed". I think it's more that you're just "possessed". For a guy who doesn't watch the show, who doesn't care about the product, who doesn't care for its talent (except ex-WWE talent), who doesn't care what they're doing, who doesn't care how much money they make, or how long a TV deal is agreed upon... you sure as hell have way too much to say on these very topics. You're a hypocrite and a fraud. Other than feeding your massive ego, what do you get out of your "journalism of wrestling" here on the board? And no, you haven't "gotten" inside my head. It's the fact that you go on and on every day with this same shit. I don't think any of the other users have fallen into your word-trap, just so they can reply to what you say. I think we're trying to tell you to shut-up, but you can't let anything go for that to happen. If we reply, you'll hit us over the heads with all of your "knowledge" and if we say, I'm done with you, you'll call us quitters and babies. Even quitters know when it's time to quit.
> 
> PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! It was nice and quiet during your absence, but as soon as you were back "home" here, you had to reply to every thread and post you missed out on, just so you could show the rest of us, why we're wrong.


It is not my "opinion" that AEW have not signed a big star since Double or Nothing. That's a fact. You can try and skewer my logic by throwing it into the pools of subjectivity all you want. Some of my thoughts are my opinion, but when I say things like "These are guys who signed with WWE" and "These are the guys who signed with AEW," those things aren't opinion. You don't get to discredit facts like that because you don't like them. 



DMD Mofomagic said:


> Then Meltzer should have kept his mouth shut about people wanting to leave.
> 
> And btw, why can't any of you understand, this is stuff that came from AEW.
> 
> They started the "We are changing the world"
> "We will be sports focused", "We don't need writers, because writers ain't shit" "They have a stupid creative"
> 
> Half of the complaints come from shit that they promised and haven't adhered to, I hold anyone to that standard, why not AEW?
> 
> As for the rest, if you think TNA and WCW went wrong because of ex WWE guys, then you really need to brush up on history
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


"We're the Ellis Island of professional wrestling." 

Total. Bullshit.



Garty said:


> Everything regarding what WWE has done with NXT, has been a reaction to what AEW has done.
> 
> When Vince is giving everyone the money they want, the length of contract they want, the creative control they want (which has to come back around and bite him in the ass at some point), why wouldn't the talent, especially those who aren't and will probably never be on or near the top, take the riches? It's very easy to make the conclusion, that Vince is trying to monopolize the industry once again, now that he actually has the competition, in AEW.
> 
> Woodsy is a mark for his own shit. Unfortunately, he'll never stop.


That's Meltzer bias and spin. NXT has existed and been a boutique product for WWE for a long time. They decided to move that from the WWE Network to USA Network. but plans to monetize that were almost certainly in place because it's the quickest way to make developmental profitable. 

Meltzer said NXT tried to "get the drop on AEW." Yes, because the third week of television always does so much better than the first week. WWE knew AEW was going to have the hardcore fan support. That is why they got on early -- so week one of AEW didn't smash week one of NXT. And that is why they didn't promote it so hard out the gate -- because you can only give it a huge promotional push a few times before it falls on deaf ears. Meltzer and Alvarez seem baffled by this, because they don't understand how it looks so much worse if they're on WWE TV going "NXT! NXT! NXT! This Wednesday!" and the hardcore fans are all DVRing it or watching it on the Network because the AEW fad is still a thing. 

My logic here is sound. This is exactly what played out. I told people that when NXT starts to cool is when you'll see WWE start mentioning them on TV. That is _exactly_ what happened. And it worked. They did it sooner than I thought, but they've pulled back from that a lot now, so they can go back to it later. And it will probably work then. 

Meltzer also said that NXT would be a Vince McMahon presentation. But they know that AEW exists as "other" to WWE, so that would only push fans further away. Meltzer was either flat-out given wrong information about that, or was just plain wrong. Nothing he has said about the NXT strategy makes sense or has played out like he says. That's because what he gives is what the AEW idea of a bad strategy against them would be. "Oh, they're trying to steal the thunder early, and they want us to die in the first few weeks, and they don't talk about NXT because they're...bad at promoting? I dunno." 

Vince is giving people the money he can afford to give them, because his TV rights deals are huge. AEW can give huge money deals to people too. Jericho and JR are getting paid more than Vince ever paid them. 

And when the _fuck_ did Vince give anyone carte blanche like AEW does? AEW _brags_ about how their talent can do whatever they want. Joey Janela breaks the reality of his program and screams "Fuck Jim Cornette!" into a camera for no reason at all and the company does what? Nothing? WWE is notoriously tight with how they script things. If anything, it would benefit them to give their top guys more freedom. But AEW is the one that needs to reel things in.

And AEW, by the way, has niched itself out of being competition for WWE. In this thread we're talking about how all the top guys have signed with Vince. You're not getting a Hogan/Luger/Nash/Savage/Hall situation. Their ratings are below 1 million each week and their TV deal is for $45 million per year. WCW could lose that much in a year. Vince's deals are safe, his ratings are safe, his product is safe. That became apparent when AEW's first match was a Gimmick Battle Royal on their pre-show for a World Title shot at their equivalent of WrestleMania. 

I _guarantee_ you that Vince McMahon is far more preoccupied with the XFL, and the hundreds of millions he stands to lose on that, and the perception it will do to his image as a businessman, and potentially the WWE stock price, than he is about 900k nerds prefer to watch on Wednesday night as his counter-programming brings in another $30-50 million for them. It'll be interesting to see if he even bothers to try counter-programming the other AEW show.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the first I would classify as ‘dropping the ball’ would be Kross, Harper, Revival
> 
> Much as a I like Marty, no way they were paying 500k + giving him the book for it
> 
> Much as I hoped for Punk, in what world is he worth the 15m he wanted? (even worth less now with backstage)
> 
> Kross I can still let go as I think WWE might throw the blank cheque at him - but the other 2 should be a ‘gimme’


I'd say getting nobody out of the USO, Styles, Emma, Gallows and Anderson was the first flag. Especially given how we hear "everybody wants to leave WWE, morale is low". Of course it's not life or death. But when they're missing out on surefire folk like Marty and possibly a hot prospect people were high on like Kross that's a good sign. 



Pippen94 said:


> Players don't want to go to Knicks for a variety of reasons; media scrutiny, back office, losing culture. I haven't read anything negative about aew thus far.
> Long term building own identity & stars is better. Stocking roster with free agents just hotshotting


You don't have to read anything negative to notice that outside of Moxley and PnP they haven't exactly been cleaning up on getting talent 

As far as building stars you can't just build new stars with no names for them to work against or a lack of names worth building. I mean who exactly are guys who should be midcard forces like Darby, Page, and MJF supposed to work with?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

When people protect the AEW midcard by saying "Who cares it's just the midcard" I like to use a sports analogy.

Pick your favourite sports team lets just use an example most of you would know and go with the New England Patriots. The Patriots have a number of star players who play in the pro bowl, make millions of dollars a year and are known around the world (In AEW this would be Jericho and maybe Moxley)

The Patriots also have an entire roster of non stars who are simply consistently good and aren't making superstar money but are performing at a very high level and doing their jobs properly (In AEW this would be your midcard)

Now if Tom Brady went from the Patriots and signed with the Browns he wouldn't be as effective because the players around him aren't at the New England standard. Sure, he might single handedly win the Browns a game or two a year despite the bad players around him who are consistently poor but the team will remain bad and miss the playoffs regardless of if they have Tom Brady or not.

From an AEW perspective they have signed a fair few star players in Cody, Moxley, Jericho and maybe even Omega and The Bucks but you look at the rest of their team and there are very little highlights. Sure they've got MJF who is great, Page who is consistently good, a few rookies with potential but generally the team is below average and are playing consistently bad kind of like Cleveland Browns.

Your undercard is just as important as your main event scene. Why am I going to watch a two hour television show if the midcard sucks and I have to watch the likes of Marko Stunt getting the better of the World Heavyweight Champion? Why not add signings to your midcard to strengthen your base and then allow those star players to do what they do best without the pressure being on them? Give Marko Stunt's spot to Brian Cage, put Dustin Rhodes deep in the midcard to work with the younger guys, Nick Aldis was available and apparently keen, Ryback is ready to return and would be a phenomenal choice, Davey Boy Smith Jr and Lance Hoyt have been thrown around they'd be awesome, Eli Drake would be a phenomenal midcard act that would probably be near the main event scene now and even veterans like a Colt Cabana, Mr. Anderson or Chris Masters,Carlito etc would make fine additions to a midcard that doesn't have much going on.

Without your toilers you are nothing. The star players can only play as well as the rest of the team will let them and in my honest opinion the AEW midcard more often than not is a let down.




optikk sucks said:


> WCW handed out multimillion dollar contracts + creative-freedom to men with small dicks and big egos. that's why you had kevin nash beat goldberg, jeff jarrett lie down to hogan etc. big egos on ex-wwe guys.
> 
> so if aew want to change the world, how does giving contracts to ex-wwe guys change the status quo? the only people they lost out to (publicly) are orton, punk, marty. its all speculation really.


Nash was booked to beat Goldberg creative control had nothing to do with it. Jeff Jarrett letting Hogan pin him was a story line that was meant to get Booker T over apparently until Russo went into business for himself.

Like it or not the WWE guys have name power and people want to see them. Someone like Emma who has been gone from WWE for 2-3 years means much more for ratings and attendance than the likes of Riho or Britt Baker.

On a much smaller scale the indies around me book guys like Carlito, Hardcore Holly, Orlando Jordan and other guys like that and always see a significant boost in attendance. It's the same for places like AEW, ROH and Impact also.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I'd say getting nobody out of the USO, Styles, Emma, Gallows and Anderson was the first flag. Especially given how we hear "everybody wants to leave WWE, morale is low". Of course it's not life or death. But when they're missing out on surefire folk like Marty and possibly a hot prospect people were high on like Kross that's a good sign.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to read anything negative to notice that outside of Moxley and PnP they haven't exactly been cleaning up on getting talent


The whole morale is low thing changed when Vince started throwing around big money around on five year deals to keep guys and promising new pushes. Like Gallows/Anderson went from jobbers. To be getting money and told they will get put in stable with AJ. The combo of push and money made it hard to leave. It also should be noted that WWE missed out on Marty too. Neither WWE or AEW valued him that much to pay him that contract. 


The thing is they were never going to get every one. For every Jon Moxley or Santana/Ortiz that they get. They will miss out on a AJ Styles or Gallows/Anderson. Yes we probably thought they would get a few more guys by now. But with wave of free agents coming. I don't think we can say they dropped the ball until we see the outcome of that.


Because then it will be like well they missed out on Usos but got Revival. Or it could be like they missed out on Killer Kross and say Rusev. But got Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Luke Harper or Lance Archer.


Overall a lot of these other guys are interchangable. I think it's tougher missing out on a star like Edge. Since he will be must see tv for a while after being retired for last 9 years. But at same time getting a guy like him was always a long shot. It would be like Michael Jordan going to the Knicks in 1995. Only to use them as leverage for the Bulls to give him 30 million a year. He never was going to really leave the Bulls if they paid up. He just had to put some fear unto them. Which is what Edge did when he went to AEW.


----------



## reyfan

imthegame19 said:


> Yes we probably thought they would get a few more guys by now.


Well that's Cody's fault for lying and saying "oh only 40% of the roster is announced so far" and since then they've debuted BBB and Arn Anderson.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> The whole morale is low thing changed when Vince started throwing around big money around on five year deals to keep guys and promising new pushes. Like Gallows/Anderson went from jobbers. To be getting money and told they will get put in stable with AJ. The combo of push and money made it hard to leave.
> 
> 
> The thing is they were never going to get every one. For every Jon Moxley or Santana/Ortiz that they get. They will miss out on a AJ Styles or Gallows/Anderson. Yes we probably thought they would get a few more guys by now. But with wave of free agents coming. I don't think we can say they dropped the ball until we see the outcome of that.
> 
> 
> Because then it will be like well they missed out on Usos but got Revival. Or it could be like they missed out on Killer Kross and say Rusev. But got Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Luke Harper or Lance Archer.
> 
> 
> Overall a lot of these other guys are interchangable. I think it's tougher missing out on a star like Edge. Since he will be must see tv for a while after being retired for last 9 years. But at same time getting a guy like him was always a long shot. It would be like Michael Jordan going to the Knicks in 1995. Only to use them as leverage for the Bulls to give him 30 million a year. He never was going to really leave the Bulls if they paid up. He just had to put some fear unto them. Which is what Edge did when he went to AEW.


As long as they can get some of the next upcoming batch of stars I agree that should calm concerns. But I do think as of this moment in time it's fair to be a smidge worried about why they aren't getting more talent, even if there's logical reasons for talent to not sign. 

I think the battle in the thread comes from it's ridiculous to say they don't want old guys or to just shell out money when they're getting old nobody's like Dr. Luthor or just nobody's like The Butcher and The Blade. Obviously they're not paying those acts out the ass, but it's hard to imagine that they'd be interested in talent like that, but not guys like The Usos or Orton. 


All in all the signings around March and April will show us a lot about how they're viewed by free agents.


----------



## 304418

I don’t know if they missed the boat on everyone. Santana and Ortiz were wanted as was Hager, Kris Statlander is a welcome steal from WWE, Priscilla Kelly is another welcome edition, and Dr Luther is probably a favour to Jericho since I can’t fathom any other reason he’s here.

At the same time...

Edge and Naomi weren’t going anywhere. They’re WWE lifers, which is why I would be surprised if the Miz, Paige, Alexa Bliss, Fire & Desire, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, etc, ever leave even if the creative is better and they have the opportunity to be bigger names than the WWE can provide. They have really strong loyalty to their company, and AEW is still unproven.

The Briscoes would have probably outshone the Young Bucks, which is probably a no no. Even though it would have also gave them a formidable singles star for the heavyweight title scene in Jay Briscoe, and according to the Young Bucks, tag teams are supposed to matter here. So ego may have cost AEW on this signing.

Scrull’s a mixed bag, because there were complaints that AEW was only signing their friends. At the same time, ROH looked like they were nearing the end, and Scrull seemed like a shoe in to be signed especially considering he probably would have joined AEW right off the bat if he wasn’t contracted elsewhere. So from AEW’s end, this makes no sense as to why they allowed a dying promotion in ROH to outbid them.

They’ve dropped the ball on Killer Kross long ago when they failed to sign Scarlett Bordeaux.

By failing to sign Scarlett, in addition to missing out on Killer Kross and possibly the Los Ingobernables offshoot in AAA that he was a part of with Rush, they also now have to elevate Penelope Ford to that female bombshell status. Which I doubt they’ll do because:

a) they’re elevating Britt Baker, who, while I wouldn’t turn down, is still plain
b) by elevating Baker, they’re trying to indicate they’re attempting to present themselves as taking women’s wrestling seriously from the beginning
c) even with this expressed interest and they have the opportunity to show that they are different and bringing real change, they would rather have comedy wrestlers in Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy main event on Dynamite than their own women’s champion.

Even when looking at prospective stars to sign in the future, as I was watching a bit of AAA action over the weekend, there was a six person intergender tag. A thought came over my mind that I would not be surprised if AEW would rather sign Mr Iguana over his partner, Taya Valkyrie, even though Taya is a big name in women’s wrestling today and would give the AEW women’s division a boost, while Mr Iguana’s gimmick is, you guessed it, an iguana and likely a midcarder. AEW seems to like the goofy stuff a lot.

At this point, the only way we’re going to get the AEW roster we want is if NJPW, AAA, Stardom, ROH, MLW, NWA & Impact license some of their stars for use in the AEW video game. And even that is a long shot.


----------



## imthegame19

reyfan said:


> Well that's Cody's fault for lying and saying "oh only 40% of the roster is announced so far" and since then they've debuted BBB and Arn Anderson.


He said that a while ago before All Out i think. Since then Hager, Wardlow, Santana/Ortiz, Statlander, Butcher&Blade, Shanna, Big Swole. Overall it was very poor math by Cody lol. The roster was always too big to add that many more people. If anything if they add 2 or 3 more guys and another tag team. 


The roster is already too big to get people on tv consistently. Yes second show will help some. But it's hard to see guys like Jimmy Havoc or Shawn Spears getting much tv time. When they aren't even now without them bringing in more talent. Even Kip Sabian match with Cody this week. Will be only his 2nd match on Dynamite if you don't count the Battle Royal.


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> This isn't mid 90s Vince isn't going to let big names leave over money and age. He made that mistake and it burned him with WCW. While he never feared TNA to grow. So he didn't care when Mick Foley, Booker T or Kevin Nash left for TNA.
> 
> 
> He sees AEW level threat now. So he's gonna throw money around to stop them from leaving. That's just a reality of games he's playing. It's gonna take big name to be upset or feeling they can do more elsewhere.
> 
> 
> AEW will get plenty or talent over time. If come summer they don't have a few of Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Rusev, Luke Harper, Lance Archer, Revival etc. Then people can complain about AEW missing out on talent. But right now they aren't gonna get big name like Edge if WWE will give him Lesnar like deal. Or win bidding war for unproven guy like Killer Kross.
> 
> 
> I can't see what the Wood is saying but I can see he's starting trouble by reading the comments. People need to start ignoring that piece of crap more. He's trolling people with his negativity at this point. He's one pathetic person.


Do we even have proof that WWE is offering massive 5 year contracts to anyone or is that just more hearsay from Meltzer? So far, who has said it? Dirt sheet writers? Or someone believable?


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> As long as they can get some of the next upcoming batch of stars I agree that should calm concerns. But I do think as of this moment in time it's fair to be a smidge worried about why they aren't getting more talent, even if there's logical reasons for talent to not sign.
> 
> I think the battle in the thread comes from it's ridiculous to say they don't want old guys or to just shell out money when they're getting old nobody's like Dr. Luthor or just nobody's like The Butcher and The Blade. Obviously they're not paying those acts out the ass, but it's hard to imagine that they'd be interested in talent like that, but not guys like The Usos or Orton.
> 
> 
> All in all the signings around March and April will show us a lot about how they're viewed by free agents.


I'm sure they had interest in both Orton and Usos. With Orton he seemed all about the money and wanted them to more for him then even WWE would. Clearly Tony Khan wasn't desperate enough to do something like that. Usos I don't think where ever really going to leave with Reigns and Naomi there. 


As for Dr. Luthor I'm guessing he's got some per appearance deal like Tully. They just added him for another creepy guy for the group. While its pretty clear Butcher and Blade are gonna be jobber tag team or looks that way right now.

But yeah we need to wait and see how things go next few months. Considering they had Brian Cage verbally signed before he got hurt and he's still expected to join the company when he's healthy. 


While they are close to signing Lance Archer. We will see how many guys they end up with. If for some reason they don't end up with 2 or 3 of Cage, Archer, Kross, Hardy, Rusev, Harper, or Revival. Well then I'll agree they missed the boat and missed out on talent. Right now they can't add them all though. So they are going to quote on quote miss out on some of them. That's why people need to let it play out and see what happens. 


The company clearly knows they need to add more talent and aren't sitting on their hands. So they will add more guys and when they have the depth. Then they will do stuff like add a mid card title. Because right now it's basically Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, Page, MJF and Pac. Then there's a gap to Darby, Guevara, Janela, Spears, Sabian and sometimes Dustin or Daniels. 


Which right now whenever one of the bottom group wrestles the top group they lose. So they need some more guys in the middle. Obviously guys like Hager or Wardlow could help that. If Wardlow keeps wrestling and Hager ever does. But they also need to add guys and they will.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> I'm sure they had interest in both Orton and Usos. With Orton he seemed all about the money and wanted them to more for him then even WWE would. Clearly Tony Khan wasn't desperate enough to do something like that. Usos I don't think where ever really going to leave with Reigns and Naomi there.
> 
> 
> As for Dr. Luthor I'm guessing he's got some per appearance deal like Tully. They just added him for another creepy guy for the group. While its pretty clear Butcher and Blade are gonna be jobber tag team or looks that way right now.
> 
> But yeah we need to wait and see how things go next few months. Considering they had Brian Cage verbally signed before he got hurt and he's still expected to join the company when he's healthy.
> 
> 
> While they are close to signing Lance Archer. We will see how many guys they end up with. If for some reason they don't end up with 2 or 3 of Cage, Archer, Kross, Hardy, Rusev, Harper, or Revival. Well then I'll agree they missed the boat and missed out on talent. Right now they can't add them all though. So they are going to quote on quote miss out on some of them. That's why people need to let it play out and see what happens.
> 
> 
> The company clearly knows they need to add more talent and aren't sitting on their hands. So they will add more guys and when they have the depth. Then they will do stuff like add a mid card title. Because right now it's basically Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, Page, MJF and Pac. Then there's a gap to Darby, Guevara, Janela, Spears, Sabian and sometimes Dustin or Daniels.
> 
> 
> Which right now whenever one of the bottom group wrestles the top group they lose. So they need some more guys in the middle. Obviously guys like Hager or Wardlow could help that. If Wardlow keeps wrestling and Hager ever does. But they also need to add guys and they will.


I don't disagree with you at all really, it's just I get why folk aren't impressed. Specualtion that Kahn doesn't want to go out to get someone like Orton or The Usos, but that he'll get low card guys like BnB or Luthor just makes him seem like a cheap owner like you see in legit sports. 

Agree they need to really bolster their midcard since there's not much main event talent just really out there. If they could just get like a good solid 3-6 guys to where they can really start to separate the lower midcard, midcard, upper midcard, and main event they'll be golden.


----------



## French Connection

El Hammerstone said:


> In the case of Stunt, it's that his mere presence will make the company look like a joke to the casual viewer who may happen upon the show; a company needs their lower card guys that are there to put over other talent with more potential, I get that, but at the very least a guy like Brandon Cutler will present himself as something of a serious athlete and people could just shrug him off, with Marko Stunt, anything he does will come off as a joke and other talents will lose legitimacy having to sell for him. If you took a bland nobody from the indies (and I'm not saying they should) that had no marketable look or mic ability but could simply wrestle a decent match, and AEW put him out there against someone with real potential, at the very least this bland nobody would put on a competent 3-4 minute match that could be taken seriously due to who his opponent was, and a casual viewer would not be compelled to see it as comedy and want to roll their eyes and change the channel.


I can definitely understand your point about using Stunt looking slightly too strong. 
From now, I do not remember any other members of Jurassic Express getting pinned when they were fighting 3 v 3. 
Most of Stunt's moves are done with the help of JB or 'Saurus. The guy is just a comedy character.

But I definitely think you (we) are overestimating the 'power' of the casual viewers (CV). We are not in the mid 90's/early 2000's anymore. I've found this article very interesting. 
What need AEW is to increase their dedicated viewership, and I think they doing pretty well at this stage keeping a reasonable audience. 
The casuals are the one tuning for 12 minutes or less on your program... It makes no sense to target them today.


----------



## Boldgerg

The Wood said:


> They've capped themselves with their niche presentation. Stars like CM Punk, Randy Orton and probably Edge weren't going to go and fuck around with guys like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. Once they don't go, others aren't going to go.
> 
> Since Double or Nothing and we've had a look at their product, AEW has gotten: Santana and Ortiz, Kris Statlander, Priscilla Kelly, Dr. Luther.
> 
> WWE has gotten: AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, The Usos, Randy Orton, *CM Punk*, Cain Velasquez, Lana, Scarlett Bordeaux, Mercedes Martinez.
> 
> ROH: Marty Scurll, The Briscoes, Bandido, Flamita, PJ Black, Adam Brooks.
> 
> I know which list is #1, which is #2 and which is a far, far down #3.


Well, that bit is a load of fucking bullshit really, isn't it?


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I don't disagree with you at all really, it's just I get why folk aren't impressed. Specualtion that Kahn doesn't want to go out to get someone like Orton or The Usos, but that he'll get low card guys like BnB or Luthor just makes him seem like a cheap owner like you see in legit sports.
> 
> Agree they need to really bolster their midcard since there's not much main event talent just really out there. If they could just get like a good solid 3-6 guys to where they can really start to separate the lower midcard, midcard, upper midcard, and main event they'll be golden.


Yeah I'm not gonna lie if they could have gotten Orton for 40 dates and maybe 25 matches a year. Or Edge or CM Punk on Lesnar type deals. It would be obviously great additions for AEW. They clearly tried for all three guys at one point.


But at the same time fans can't have it both ways right now. People want AEW to be a profitable successful company. Yet they get mad when they don't do same things other wrestling companies that failed did.


Right now WWE is bullet proof. They got so much tv and network money. They can throw around these huge contracts and resign guys to keep them from AEW. Even if they aren't planning on using them. But like WCW or WWE in the late 90s. Or TNA from 2008 to 2011.


AEW isn't bulletproof and should have cut off point when offering these guys contract. WCW massive guarantee contracts where great to get wrestlers to jump ship. But they also killed the company.


TNA spending money on every possible ex attitude era star or ex WWE guy they could get. Was great at creating excitement. But all that did was send them from profitable to deep in the red. Then when they lost tv money with Spike they had to let even core guys like AJ, Joe and Roode go. With Dixie basically forced to sell the company or close it. 


Yet if you look at Vince McMahon in 96-98. He was letting talent leave and wasn't spending big money to bring guys in. He created new young stars or repackaged guys into new gimmicks(Kane, New Age Outlaws, APA etc). Or signed cast offs like XPac or Big Boss Man.


So as cool as it would be see Randy Orton running out and giving RKO to Omega. Or Edge coming out to Spear Moxley after he won the title. The other part of me feels good about AEW future. That they have smart businessmen running AEW. They aren't showing to be desperate to make big splash to compete with WWE right away. Not if it hurts the company and puts in bad position financially. Especially when doing that hasn't worked long term for either WCW or TNA.


----------



## Cult03

K4L318 said:


> There ya go. Finally a smart fan.
> 
> Ya almost made a point but didnt realize a taped show on a boat beat their NXT stars. So they do see it as a bigger deal as they fill actual arenas and not just studio college space of 400 capacity.
> 
> That is a real major issue in AEW. They need to let Marko just be dat small dude. He potentially can kill the level a big guy is building since hes not getting murdered.


I'd like to see them do it without their legit ex-WWE Main Eventers, Jericho and Mox. NXT is still a bunch of development superstars and they're barely beating them. This is like RAW getting praised for beating Impact last week. Its just inevitable. But AEW should be winning by more. And they do that by having bigger stars on their roster


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah I'm not gonna lie if they could have gotten Orton for 40 dates and maybe 25 matches a year. Or Edge or CM Punk on Lesnar type deals. It would be obviously great additions for AEW. They clearly tried for all three guys at one point.
> 
> 
> But at the same time fans can't have it both ways right now. People want AEW to be a profitable successful company. Yet they get mad when they don't do same things other wrestling companies that failed did.
> 
> 
> Right now WWE is bullet proof. They got so much tv and network money. They can throw around these huge contracts and resign guys to keep them from AEW. Even if they aren't planning on using them. But like WCW or WWE in the late 90s. Or TNA from 2008 to 2011.
> 
> 
> AEW isn't bulletproof and should have cut off point when offering these guys contract. WCW massive guarantee contracts where great to get wrestlers to jump ship. But they also killed the company.
> 
> 
> TNA spending money on every possible ex attitude era star or ex WWE guy they could get. Was great at creating excitement. But all that did was send them from profitable to deep in the red. Then when they lost tv money with Spike they had to let even core guys like AJ, Joe and Roode go. With Dixie basically forced to sell the company or close it.
> 
> 
> Yet if you look at Vince McMahon in 96-98. He was letting talent leave and wasn't spending big money to bring guys in. He created new young stars or repackaged guys into new gimmicks(Kane, New Age Outlaws, APA etc). Or signed cast offs like XPac or Big Boss Man.
> 
> 
> So as cool as it would be see Randy Orton running out and giving RKO to Omega. Or Edge coming out to Spear Moxley after he won the title. The other part of me feels good about AEW future. That they have smart businessmen running AEW. They aren't showing to be desperate to make big splash to compete with WWE right away. Not if it hurts the company and puts in bad position financially. Especially when doing that hasn't worked long term for either WCW or TNA.


I think there's a happy medium between WCW/TNA and what they're currently at. You have to remember WWF also benefitted from still having a history and guys that had exposure prior to the departure. I think that's the issue they don't have prior history and name recognition as a company so they'd benefit from boosts as long as they don't go overboard and have those names killing off potential future stats.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fucking hell.... you’re a rejoiner, aren‘t you?
> 
> i recognise that self-important writing style
> 
> fucking bye dude - learn to take a ban like a man and stop bothering us with your shittakes ?‍♂
> 
> ignore train chooo chooooo


Your debating style is hilarious. When someone challenges your point of view they're automatically a troll or a rejoiner. You do this as an attempt to make their opinion mean less, but it just makes you look like you're scared to have your opinions challenged. It's an absolute cop out.


----------



## Cult03

French Connection said:


> Why all the time, people have to speak about Stunt, Janella or S.Kiss to pretend AEW are missing talents?
> This is the bloody undercard (maybe the midcard for JJ at much), come on!
> 
> Some people claimed the RR last night was _"the best PPV of the decade" _(cf @Cult03 here), while recognizing the best match was only the males' battle royale (cf @The Wood here).
> Honestly, who care about the lower midcard? I think AEW can do better, but the uppermidcard is not that bad.
> 
> For example, I was feeling off the main event of All Out due to the poor reaction Adam Page received, and he was clearly not ready for the main event back in that day.
> However today, Page is getting a very positive crowd reaction and I think he could be a good draw in the coming months.


I did not. I said that others outside of this bubble have said it. Don't misquote me. 

The midcard usually matters because we want 2 hours of good wrestling. Unfortunately this company doesn't care about the first hour


----------



## French Connection

RapShepard said:


> *I think there's a happy medium between WCW/TNA* and what they're currently at. You have to remember WWF also benefitted from still having a history and guys that had exposure prior to the departure. I think that's the issue they don't have prior history and name recognition as a company so they'd benefit from boosts as long as they don't go overboard and have those names killing off potential future stats.


I think the best medium is to build your own talents with what you have in hand for now.
Of course, if you have an opportunity to strike, go for it. But don't rush!
Moxley got a great momentum for now, so what looking for another one?



Cult03 said:


> I did not. I said that others outside of this bubble have said it. Don't misquote me.
> 
> The midcard usually matters because we want 2 hours of good wrestling. *Unfortunately this company doesn't care about the first hour*


Mate, you are possessed by VKM, it is impossible to be in bad faith that much! 

Anyway, @The Wood said the main event matters, this is what making the PPV good or not. 
I didn't misquote anyone, but just trying to understand your subjective spirit. And I am sorry @Cult03, but you are dishonest the way you are having a double standard to judge the same thing.


----------



## El Hammerstone

French Connection said:


> I can definitely understand your point about using Stunt looking slightly too strong.
> From now, I do not remember any other members of Jurassic Express getting pinned when they were fighting 3 v 3.
> Most of Stunt's moves are done with the help of JB or 'Saurus. The guy is just a comedy character.
> 
> But I definitely think you (we) are overestimating the 'power' of the casual viewers (CV). We are not in the mid 90's/early 2000's anymore. I've found this article very interesting.
> What need AEW is to increase their dedicated viewership, and I think they doing pretty well at this stage keeping a reasonable audience.
> The casuals are the one tuning for 12 minutes or less on your program... It makes no sense to target them today.


Stunt being a straight up comedy character is another reason I can't stand the guy tbh, because it hurts the legitimacy of Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, both of whom I like. 

And yeah, increasing dedicated viewership is important, and yes, cable television in 2020 is not what is once was due to a number of factors, but putting things out there that the average person will roll their eyes at in a glance is not smart either because if interest isn't peaked upon the first impression, then they will likely not get a chance at a second. For instance, in 2003-2004ish, having not watched the WWE in a while, I was channel surfing and happened upon TNA, and I was blown away by AJ Styles and Chris Sabin, but then the next match featured a tag team dressed as Condoms called the Johnsons and I changed the channel; however, the fact that I had seen Styles and Sabin put on such a show made me interested in tuning back in the next time, while if the Johnsons had been the first thing I had seen, there wouldn't have been a next time. 

So, yeah, I may not have stuck around the first few weeks for the entire show but I found myself gradually watching more and more until I was there week in and week out not even thinking about reaching for the remote.


----------



## RapShepard

French Connection said:


> I think the best medium is to build your own talents with what you have in hand for now.
> Of course, if you have an opportunity to strike, go for it. But don't rush!
> Moxley got a great momentum for now, so what looking for another one?


I agree building your own talents is best. But I think they need a few more medium to big pieces to do it. Hard to really build up lesser knowns via other lesser knowns.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I think there's a happy medium between WCW/TNA and what they're currently at. You have to remember WWF also benefitted from still having a history and guys that had exposure prior to the departure. I think that's the issue they don't have prior history and name recognition as a company so they'd benefit from boosts as long as they don't go overboard and have those names killing off potential future stats.


I agree and confident they will get some guys. I just think they need to have cut off point when offering guys contracts. If you offer Orton or Edge 2 million a year to work 40 dates and wrestle 10-20 times a year. Then they counter with 4 or 5 million. 


It's ok to walk away and let WWE pay them that. If you offer Killer Kross 500,000 to work 50 dates and WWE offering over million. Well I have no problem letting him go either and I'm a big Killer Kross fan. Same goes with Marty Schrull. AEW shouldn't be paying him 500,000 grand a year. When hes gonna be a midcarder for the company. Heck WWE wouldn't even touch that offer either. 


I don't think the company looks bad if they pass or get out bid by WWE. Especially when there's gonna be plenty of opportunities to add more talent. They just can't miss out on everyone. While at same time they still want to make Page and MJF into future big stars. While I think Sammy Guevara, Darby, Wardlow and Jungle Boy can be future stars. Which is why I have no problem setting for guys who are in 40s like Archer, Hardy or Harper in short term. While I think Brian Cage could be much bigger star on bigger stage. That's if he can ever stay healthy.


----------



## Cult03

French Connection said:


> I think the best medium is to build your own talents with what you have in hand for now.
> Of course, if you have an opportunity to strike, go for it. But don't rush!
> Moxley got a great momentum for now, so what looking for another one?
> 
> 
> 
> Mate, you are possessed by VKM, it is impossible to be in bad faith that much!
> 
> Anyway, @The Wood said the main event matters, this is what making the PPV good or not.
> I didn't misquote anyone, but just trying to understand your subjective spirit. And I am sorry @Cult03, but you are dishonest the way you are having a double standard to judge the same thing.


Excuse me? My only standard is that I want to enjoy it. This goes for both major companies. I have plenty of negative things to say about WWE over the last decade. You're taking that comment out of context as well. It was in response to people saying it was the worst Rumble, when I was saying others have said it was one of the best. I enjoyed most of the Rumble, minus the Bayley match. The mid card for WWE and the mid card for AEW are not at all comparible.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> I agree and confident they will get some guys. I just think they need to have cut off point when offering guys contracts. If you offer Orton or Edge 2 million a year to work 40 dates and wrestle 10-20 times a year. Then they counter with 4 or 5 million.
> 
> 
> It's ok to walk away and let WWE pay them that. If you offer Killer Kross 500,000 to work 50 dates and WWE offering over million. Well I have no problem letting him go either and I'm a big Killer Kross fan. Same goes with Marty Schrull. AEW shouldn't be paying him 500,000 grand a year. When hes gonna be a midcarder for the company. Heck WWE wouldn't even touch that offer either.
> 
> 
> I don't think the company looks bad if they pass or get out bid by WWE. Especially when there's gonna be plenty of opportunities to add more talent. They just can't miss out on everyone. While at same time they still want to make Page and MJF into future big stars. While I think Sammy Guevara, Darby, Wardlow and Jungle Boy can be future stars. Which is why I have no problem setting for guys who are in 40s like Archer, Hardy or Harper in short term. While I think Brian Cage could be much bigger star on bigger stage. That's if he can ever stay healthy.


I don't think they look bad in the business sense. Your right you don't want to be given out stupid large contracts to midcarders in year 2. But at the same time sometimes perception can mean more than reality and logic. Different part of the business, but look at how long fans have viewed Raw and SmackDown numbers as abysmal only for them to in reality be getting pretty good numbers for this era. I just personally think that if they miss out on too many names it may give talents down the line that have some name value that they're not really worth going to unless you have nowhere else to go 

But by DoN 2 or what not we should know what's up with them.


----------



## Cult03

RapShepard said:


> I agree building your own talents is best. But I think they need a few more medium to big pieces to do it. Hard to really build up lesser knowns via other lesser knowns.


Their own talents could have been those other guys though. MLW and Evolve are at a similar level popularity-wise, so bringing in a Hammerstone or Fatu would have been exactly the same as bringing in Darby Allin. They don't need the Janella's and Stunt's out there making a mockery, when they could have a Killer Kross.


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> Their own talents could have been those other guys though. MLW and Evolve are at a similar level popularity-wise, so bringing in a Hammerstone or Fatu would have been exactly the same as bringing in Darby Allin. They don't need the Janella's and Stunt's out there making a mockery, when they could have a Killer Kross.


See I don't have a problem with a Stunt and I actually like Janela. The issue is they don't have that serious midcard that further pushes down the comedy to make it more acceptable and easily digestible.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

RapShepard said:


> I don't think they look bad in the business sense. Your right you don't want to be given out stupid large contracts to midcarders in year 2. But at the same time sometimes perception can mean more than reality and logic. Different part of the business, but look at how long fans have viewed Raw and SmackDown numbers as abysmal only for them to in reality be getting pretty good numbers for this era. I just personally think that if they miss out on too many names it may give talents down the line that have some name value that they're not really worth going to unless you have nowhere else to go
> 
> But by DoN 2 or what not we should know what's up with them.


Thr problem is that a lot of the narrative, they made themselves. 

This is thr thing that a lot of the AEW fans don't want to refute. AEW and Meltzer made these grand proclamations. 
This is a Dixie Carter tactic, and no one wants to see it, but thus isnt the first time they keep trying to get people excited for nothing. 

Your Knicks analogy was perfect


----------



## RapShepard

DMD Mofomagic said:


> Thr problem is that a lot of the narrative, they made themselves.
> 
> This is thr thing that a lot of the AEW fans don't want to refute. AEW and Meltzer made these grand proclamations.
> This is a Dixie Carter tactic, and no one wants to see it, but thus isnt the first time they keep trying to get people excited for nothing.
> 
> Your Knicks analogy was perfect


That is certainly undeniable that them and Meltzer presenting themselves as the place to be for the misused or that everybody wanted out and to look at AEW haven't really done them any favors. In the attempt to build hype, which is necessary, they might have gone a little overboard. Which it's okay to admit that they may have just overhyped in the beginning and some of those expectations are hard to meet.


----------



## Garty

You haters always bring up Stunt, Cassidy, Kiss, etc. as if they're the "main-event" of every show. I've got some names for you too. Jose, Rawley, Singh Brothers, etc. And if you guys believe that AEW are paying these "main-event" talent loads of cash, please, don't ever run your own business.

You also like to keep harping on the "change the world" tagline. How long has WWE been feeding you the "we give the fans what they want" tagline?


----------



## Geeee

Only Marty Scurll feels like a loss in the OP to me.


----------



## K4L318

Geeee said:


> Only Marty Scurll feels like a loss in the OP to me.


this da truth.


----------



## K4L318

Cult03 said:


> I'd like to see them do it without their legit ex-WWE Main Eventers, Jericho and Mox. NXT is still a bunch of development superstars and they're barely beating them. This is like RAW getting praised for beating Impact last week. Its just inevitable. But AEW should be winning by more. And they do that by having bigger stars on their roster


they on TV for 4 months starting from scratch wit western culture wrestlers and indie geeks growing into a personality. 

They where they should be. What is wearing out is how many times ya can send a main roster talent to NXT and have the watch value go down. If main roster WWE guy or girl goes to NXT, there is no reason to watch them on RAW or Smackdown dat same week.


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> When I look at NXT's roster and then at guys like Janella, Stunt (especially), Nakazawa, Spears, Cutler, QT Marshall, and Sonny Kiss; I realize how much the midcard in this company sucks and how much better guys like Hammerstone, Brian Cage, Brodie Lee, Jacob Fatu, Killer Kross, etc. would make it look.
> 
> All this talk about the company wanting to build new stars before going out and making significant signings; how about signing some new talent that one can consider far more worthy of being built into these 'new stars'. If a casual viewer were to flip on NXT and see athletes the likes of Keith Lee, Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Dragunov, Austin Theory, WALTER, Shayna Baszler, or Rhea Ripley and then switch to AEW and see Marko Stunt flossing and getting near falls on Chris Jericho; do you think they are going to see AEW as the real deal? Rhetorical question, because the answer is no.
> 
> In fact, I can guarantee that the possibility of having to play along with someone like Marko Stunt would be weighing on the mind of a talented wrestler trying to decide between which company to sign with, it's a terrible look.


This is a fantastic post. 



K4L318 said:


> There ya go. Finally a smart fan.
> 
> Ya almost made a point but didnt realize a taped show on a boat beat their NXT stars. So they do see it as a bigger deal as they fill actual arenas and not just studio college space of 400 capacity.
> 
> That is a real major issue in AEW. They need to let Marko just be dat small dude. He potentially can kill the level a big guy is building since hes not getting murdered.


They're doing slightly better right now. That's not necessarily going to be the status quo moving forward and doesn't mean this stuff is endearing itself, as opposed to being watched and disregarded out of morbid curiosity. _This_ is closer to the mentality that saw WCW start getting their ass kicked by the WWF. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> You named the Revival and a bunch of teams that no one gives a crap about and arent very good. Best Friends level, comparing them to the Lucha Bros is ridiculous. WWE has one team, Revival, that would be on the level of the top teams in AEW.


When have I ever said that The Revival are never any good? They're fucking tremendous. Are you just lying again? 



TKO Wrestling said:


> As far as this topic goes, other than CM Punk, Austin Theory, and soon Killer Kross...we haven't lost out on anything. Edge is all sunshine and rainbows in the WWE but had he shown up in AEW he would be "old, washed up WWE reject." He wouldn't move the needle for the promotion, Edge has never been a draw, he fits perfect in WWE with all the fossils. Maybe they can have a 4 way with Goldberg/Edge/Taker/Batista soon lol.
> 
> Punk was the crippling loss, everything was lined up for them to sign him and Kahn should have wrote the check it took to get him. He lowballed him, like he did Orton & Edge, problem is that Punk is a much bigger star than the other two and was absolutely ideal for the renegade image that is AEW.
> 
> I am glad they didn't sign Marty, last thing we needed was another 160 lb wrestler. Like someone above said, he is XPac level at best, problem is The Elite arent as big as The nWo so he doesn't fit here like Syxx did in WCW or XPac with DX.


It is always funny when AEW fanboys mock the WWE for using old wrestlers, but Chris Jericho is basically using it as a vanity project. 



Zapato said:


> I’m not sure why people are getting so over eager for a rush of talent. AEW need to be selective and hire the right guys rather than anyone who comes available, that’s TNA level idiocy, even WCW at times. You don’t have to hire anyone that worked for the other company or hot talk on the indies for a minute, you hire the guys you can mould and then you actually make people care about them. AEW’s main issue still for me is they are not getting the talent they have over enough, they hide too much away on YouTube. I don’t have time to hunt all that stuff down. Sure they could have hired Edge, but why not instead hire three/four guys (and more arguably women) that echelon below and actually build them up. And stop randomly introducing guys expecting us to know who they are, build them up.


We're not in the same era as WCW and AEW is in a completely different scenario to WWE. No one was complaining about Christian and Kurt Angle going to TNA. It was the old washed up guys that were released because their value in the business had expired and/or the fans saw them as stale. TNA was also a very different presentation with awful creative. 

And who have AEW hired that they can actually mould into stars? MJF, Darby Allin and Sammy Guevara, maybe, but given their size, Guevara and Allin are probably not main eventers nor are they going to be ready anytime soon. 



Pippen94 said:


> Wwe beat wcw by creating own stars from mid card cast offs such as Austin, Foley & HHH. Wcw brought in main event talent & eventually went bust. I wouldn't be worried on missing out.


WCW didn't go bust because they brought in main event talent, lol. Nor was this a scenario where TV rights were fucking huge. Building your own stars is wonderful, but you have to have the talent available. AEW is not getting the mid-card cast-offs like Austin, Foley & HHH. They are getting Tye Dillinger. Yaaaaay! 



Jazminator said:


> Some of you are acting like this pro wrestling thing is new to you. Newsflash: No one company is going to sign all the wrestlers.
> 
> AEW is going to get its share of new talent. So will NWA, ROH, Impact, NJPW, etc. The WWE is still far and away the "top dog" and probably always will be, so they'll get the lion's share of talent. A lot of wrestlers (like Edge, apparently) will use AEW has a way to land more lucrative contracts from the WWE. That's a good thing.
> 
> Be grateful for the WWE. Be grateful for AEW. Be grateful for the smaller companies and even the so-called "indy" companies. They all feed off each other and help keep the industry going. Wrestling today is a lot better off than, say, 10-15 years ago. Enjoy it.


*AEW are barely getting anyone though.* It's not that they haven't got every single talent; it's that they haven't gotten a single major name since Double or Nothing. Air time. Not a one. I'm sorry, but LAX 2.0 from TNA and Kris Statlander are not major names. 



All Elite Wanking said:


> I don't think you have good examples and I don't think they're being "beaten" out by other companies. Edge would never wrestle somewhere else besides WWE; not even a consideration of AEW. Naomi would never fit in or wrestle in AEW; her husband is set for life in WWE. Killer Kross was outsmarted because WWE poached his girlfriend and ain't no man turning down Scarlett.
> 
> Marty Scrull is the one person I could see an argument for. But, with Marty in charge of piece of ROH, who's to say they don't cut a deal with AEW thanks to that. Could be a longer term plan.
> 
> AEW just recently signed all the best women (surprisingly), Butcher & Blade, Brian Cage. They're getting top names. At least for me, I don't want them filling up a roster for the sake of taking things from the competition. WWE is stacking their roster and using 20% of it, just to keep people from AEW. AEW is stacking their roster and 95% of it gets TV time or AEW Dark time. It's up to the wrestler. You can either wrestle or be sidelined getting paid (honestly I'd choose sidelined).


But AEW can help her husband be set for life in AEW...why didn't AEW get Scarlett Bordeaux? There are lots of excuses for talent being lifers and choosing WWE, but you don't really think about why. 



Jeripunk99 said:


> WWE didnt get Punk. He signed with Fox


It's much of a muchness. He's under contract and appearing on WWE programming, so anyone checking out anything Punk does is going to see him associated with WWE. 



French Connection said:


> Why all the time, people have to speak about Stunt, Janella or S.Kiss to pretend AEW are missing talents?
> This is the bloody undercard (maybe the midcard for JJ at much), come on!
> 
> Some people claimed the RR last night was _"the best PPV of the decade" _(cf @Cult03 here), while recognizing the best match was only the males' battle royale (cf @The Wood here).
> Honestly, who care about the lower midcard? I think AEW can do better, but the uppermidcard is not that bad.
> 
> For example, I was feeling off the main event of All Out due to the poor reaction Adam Page received, and he was clearly not ready for the main event back in that day.
> However today, Page is getting a very positive crowd reaction and I think he could be a good draw in the coming months.


Being in the preliminary matches/mid-card does not mean you are unimportant and you can and should do whatever the fuck you want and it doesn't matter. 



Pippen94 said:


> No they don't. Just focus building with what they got. New talent will always join at some point.


You say that, yet no one is, lol. 



RapShepard said:


> They really do, it's seen all the time in similar industries. Take a look at something like the New York Knicks in the NBA. When you get the reputation as a place that people don't want to be, it becomes hard to get big name free agents.
> 
> As far as WCW and TNA I'll say this, you can look at what they did right and what they did wrong and act accordingly. WCW getting big names and having a big angle helped them. What hurt them was giving those big names too much power which caused them to be unable to build the future. Why not go in the middle of "hey your a name we can use be it midcard or main event, but no you will not be deciding your booking".
> 
> Folk have to realize that there's a healthy middle ground to be found when looking at the mistake WWE, WCW, and TNA have made.


Thank you! This is an excellent post. It's not that bringing in Hogan, Hall and/or Nash, for example, was the bad thing WCW did. It was insist on making them the central focus of WCW programming long after they stopped being useful in those top roles. It was insisting that Nash be the one to end Hogan's streak, or giving Hogan the control to fuck around with Sting. 



imthegame19 said:


> The whole morale is low thing changed when Vince started throwing around big money around on five year deals to keep guys and promising new pushes. Like Gallows/Anderson went from jobbers. To be getting money and told they will get put in stable with AJ. The combo of push and money made it hard to leave. It also should be noted that WWE missed out on Marty too. Neither WWE or AEW valued him that much to pay him that contract.
> 
> 
> The thing is they were never going to get every one. For every Jon Moxley or Santana/Ortiz that they get. They will miss out on a AJ Styles or Gallows/Anderson. Yes we probably thought they would get a few more guys by now. But with wave of free agents coming. I don't think we can say they dropped the ball until we see the outcome of that.
> 
> 
> Because then it will be like well they missed out on Usos but got Revival. Or it could be like they missed out on Killer Kross and say Rusev. But got Brian Cage, Matt Hardy, Luke Harper or Lance Archer.
> 
> 
> Overall a lot of these other guys are interchangable. I think it's tougher missing out on a star like Edge. Since he will be must see tv for a while after being retired for last 9 years. But at same time getting a guy like him was always a long shot. It would be like Michael Jordan going to the Knicks in 1995. Only to use them as leverage for the Bulls to give him 30 million a year. He never was going to really leave the Bulls if they paid up. He just had to put some fear unto them. Which is what Edge did when he went to AEW.


Yes, but AEW also has the money to throw around and could have offered morale. Instead they signed Janela, Stunt, Havoc, Nakazawa and the gang and now claim they don't have money and the show scares off talent that takes themselves seriously. 



Boldgerg said:


> Well, that bit is a load of fucking bullshit really, isn't it?


No. 



Cult03 said:


> Your debating style is hilarious. When someone challenges your point of view they're automatically a troll or a rejoiner. You do this as an attempt to make their opinion mean less, but it just makes you look like you're scared to have your opinions challenged. It's an absolute cop out.


Absolutely. Call that shit out. 



Garty said:


> You haters always bring up Stunt, Cassidy, Kiss, etc. as if they're the "main-event" of every show. I've got some names for you too. Jose, Rawley, Singh Brothers, etc. And if you guys believe that AEW are paying these "main-event" talent loads of cash, please, don't ever run your own business.
> 
> You also like to keep harping on the "change the world" tagline. How long has WWE been feeding you the "we give the fans what they want" tagline?


No, we don't bring them up like they're the main event of the show. We bring them up like they're part of the show. I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going to defend those WWE guys, but at least they are all athletes and guys who present themselves like they are actually fighters (even if the Singhs are small). They're philosophically way less offensive than the AEW examples. 

And yes, in a perfect world you'd have a lot more interesting under-card talent, and that's an issue, but they aren't insulting to your intelligence.

Buuuuuuuuut, none of that even matters because it's besides the point: Even if WWE were doing something, it doesn't justify AEW doing something awful too.


----------



## bdon

Goddamn.

Boo fucking hoo. There’s a bad wrestling program out and the same stupid fucks are in here crying about it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. If you don’t watch, don’t discuss. You aren’t here to have any meaningful conversations, just to beat the AEW faithful over the head with your opinion. Opinions they clearly don’t want to hear.

I’m being dead serious when I ask this, @The Wood , what are you hoping to gain from the convos at this point? You know they aren’t going to agree. Do you think you’re going to somehow beat them into goddamn submission with the “AEW sucks” hammer until they agree with you?


----------



## K4L318

bdon said:


> Goddamn.
> 
> Boo fucking hoo. There’s a bad wrestling program out and the same stupid fucks are in here crying about it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. If you don’t watch, don’t discuss. You aren’t here to have any meaningful conversations, just to beat the AEW faithful over the head with your opinion. Opinions they clearly don’t want to hear.
> 
> *I’m being dead serious when I ask this,@The Wood, what are you hoping to gain from the convos at this point? You know they aren’t going to agree. Do you think you’re going to somehow beat them into goddamn submission with the “AEW sucks” hammer until they agree with you?*


he on a non post cap limit.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> This is a fantastic post.
> 
> 
> 
> They're doing slightly better right now. That's not necessarily going to be the status quo moving forward and doesn't mean this stuff is endearing itself, as opposed to being watched and disregarded out of morbid curiosity. _This_ is closer to the mentality that saw WCW start getting their ass kicked by the WWF.
> 
> 
> 
> When have I ever said that The Revival are never any good? They're fucking tremendous. Are you just lying again?
> 
> 
> 
> It is always funny when AEW fanboys mock the WWE for using old wrestlers, but Chris Jericho is basically using it as a vanity project.
> 
> 
> 
> We're not in the same era as WCW and AEW is in a completely different scenario to WWE. No one was complaining about Christian and Kurt Angle going to TNA. It was the old washed up guys that were released because their value in the business had expired and/or the fans saw them as stale. TNA was also a very different presentation with awful creative.
> 
> And who have AEW hired that they can actually mould into stars? MJF, Darby Allin and Sammy Guevara, maybe, but given their size, Guevara and Allin are probably not main eventers nor are they going to be ready anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> WCW didn't go bust because they brought in main event talent, lol. Nor was this a scenario where TV rights were fucking huge. Building your own stars is wonderful, but you have to have the talent available. AEW is not getting the mid-card cast-offs like Austin, Foley & HHH. They are getting Tye Dillinger. Yaaaaay!
> 
> 
> 
> *AEW are barely getting anyone though.* It's not that they haven't got every single talent; it's that they haven't gotten a single major name since Double or Nothing. Air time. Not a one. I'm sorry, but LAX 2.0 from TNA and Kris Statlander are not major names.
> 
> 
> 
> But AEW can help her husband be set for life in AEW...why didn't AEW get Scarlett Bordeaux? There are lots of excuses for talent being lifers and choosing WWE, but you don't really think about why.
> 
> 
> 
> It's much of a muchness. He's under contract and appearing on WWE programming, so anyone checking out anything Punk does is going to see him associated with WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> Being in the preliminary matches/mid-card does not mean you are unimportant and you can and should do whatever the fuck you want and it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> You say that, yet no one is, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! This is an excellent post. It's not that bringing in Hogan, Hall and/or Nash, for example, was the bad thing WCW did. It was insist on making them the central focus of WCW programming long after they stopped being useful in those top roles. It was insisting that Nash be the one to end Hogan's streak, or giving Hogan the control to fuck around with Sting.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but AEW also has the money to throw around and could have offered morale. Instead they signed Janela, Stunt, Havoc, Nakazawa and the gang and now claim they don't have money and the show scares off talent that takes themselves seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Call that shit out.
> 
> 
> 
> No, we don't bring them up like they're the main event of the show. We bring them up like they're part of the show. I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going to defend those WWE guys, but at least they are all athletes and guys who present themselves like they are actually fighters (even if the Singhs are small). They're philosophically way less offensive than the AEW examples.
> 
> And yes, in a perfect world you'd have a lot more interesting under-card talent, and that's an issue, but they aren't insulting to your intelligence.
> 
> Buuuuuuuuut, none of that even matters because it's besides the point: Even if WWE were doing something, it doesn't justify AEW doing something awful too.


Nobody would've picked HHH, Austin & Foley as main event players. Who knows who the next star will be? Clogging card with free agents will stop anyone with potential from developing - you can say that's part why wcw died. Of course you won't but you're a troll


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Nobody would've picked HHH, Austin & Foley as main event players. Who knows who the next star will be? Clogging card with free agents will stop anyone with potential from developing - you can say that's part why wcw died. Of course you won't but you're a troll


Hmm I'm not so sure. Paul Heyman clearly saw a lot in Steve Austin and claims that he knew he was going to be a star. Hard to argue against it as well if you look at the way Heyman used him.

Foley as Cactus Jack was main eventing WCW shows and ECW shows before heading to WWE.

Triple H is the one nobody expected anything from. WCW were happy to just give him one year deals with no real commitment and I highly doubt the WWE saw more than 3-4 years in him especially after the curtain call.

You shouldn't be using national TV time as developmental time that's what a developmental territory is for or worst case the indies. Putting developed talent onto TV is not why WCW died it died due to WWF simply putting on better shows at the time and creating bigger and better stars.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm I'm not so sure. Paul Heyman clearly saw a lot in Steve Austin and claims that he knew he was going to be a star. Hard to argue against it as well if you look at the way Heyman used him.
> 
> Foley as Cactus Jack was main eventing WCW shows and ECW shows before heading to WWE.
> 
> Triple H is the one nobody expected anything from. WCW were happy to just give him one year deals with no real commitment and I highly doubt the WWE saw more than 3-4 years in him especially after the curtain call.
> 
> You shouldn't be using national TV time as developmental time that's what a developmental territory is for or worst case the indies. Putting developed talent onto TV is not why WCW died it died due to WWF simply putting on better shows at the time and creating bigger and better stars.


Stone cold developed on wwe TV - wasn't through nxt. Given opportunity to shine due to exodus to wcw. Becky Lynch became the man on main roster too.
Austin was saddled with ringmaster gimmick & was given mouthpiece in Ted Dibase - that's how much faith they had in him. 
It's well known Vince didn't see Foley as a top level guy for many years.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Goddamn.
> 
> Boo fucking hoo. There’s a bad wrestling program out and the same stupid fucks are in here crying about it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. If you don’t watch, don’t discuss. You aren’t here to have any meaningful conversations, just to beat the AEW faithful over the head with your opinion. Opinions they clearly don’t want to hear.
> 
> I’m being dead serious when I ask this, @The Wood , what are you hoping to gain from the convos at this point? You know they aren’t going to agree. Do you think you’re going to somehow beat them into goddamn submission with the “AEW sucks” hammer until they agree with you?


I love discussing wrestling. I don't need people to agree with me. In time, history will tell the story. And I don't go "AEW sucks," I provide reasons why their programming is ineffective. 



Pippen94 said:


> Stone cold developed on wwe TV - wasn't through nxt. Given opportunity to shine due to exodus to wcw. Becky Lynch became the man on main roster too.
> Austin was saddled with ringmaster gimmick & was given mouthpiece in Ted Dibase - that's how much faith they had in him.
> It's well known Vince didn't see Foley as a top level guy for many years.


Steve Austin wasn't a fucking nobody though. By the time he got to the WWF he was already recognized as one of the best workers in the business. He had classics in WCW and had proven he could talk his ass off too. Foley could bump, sell, talk his ass off. He was programmed with The Undertaker pretty quickly. 

I don't know what points you're trying to make, but they seem to be fairly absurd.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I love discussing wrestling. I don't need people to agree with me. In time, history will tell the story. And I don't go "AEW sucks," I provide reasons why their programming is ineffective.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Austin wasn't a fucking nobody though. By the time he got to the WWF he was already recognized as one of the best workers in the business. He had classics in WCW and had proven he could talk his ass off too. Foley could bump, sell, talk his ass off. He was programmed with The Undertaker pretty quickly.
> 
> I don't know what points you're trying to make, but they seem to be fairly absurd.


Wcw sacked Austin with Eric telling him the company had no ideas for him. Vince viewed him as a mechanic & had Ted do promos for him.
If you don't think there's a complete evolution between stunning Steve & stone cold then that is truly absurd.
Nobody would have predicted Foley winning wwe title as a top babyface given his look, wrestling style & self effacing promo. Have a nice day is based around his unlikely rise.
Both got chance to develop & shine in wwe.


----------



## the_flock

TKO Wrestling said:


> problem is that Punk is a much bigger star than the other two and was absolutely ideal for the renegade image that is AEW.


Edge has twice as many followers on social media than Punk, Orton has 10x more. So that simply isn't true.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Wcw sacked Austin with Eric telling him the company had no ideas for him. Vince viewed him as a mechanic & had Ted do promos for him.
> If you don't think there's a complete evolution between stunning Steve & stone cold then that is truly absurd.
> Nobody would have predicted Foley winning wwe title as a top babyface given his look, wrestling style & self effacing promo. Have a nice day is based around his unlikely rise.
> Both got chance to develop & shine in wwe.


Eric Bischoff was a fucking idiot and people knew that at the time. Heyman, JR, Cornette and anyone that had been around Austin for any amount of time knew he was a special talent. He had been in five star matches, which were not given out like candy back then. Everyone remembers The Hollywood Blonds even though they were only together for months. Did he have to find himself in the WWF? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he had never done anything of note, ever been over, or that there weren't people even in the company he worked for that knew he was way better than The Ringmaster. You're confusing a WWF-produced fairy tale of his rise with the reality of Austin being a guy with a motor busting his ass in wrestling since he started, and absorbing basically everything he could from all the legends he shared a ring with. 

It doesn't really matter if people didn't predict that Foley would win the WWF Title in the manner that he did. That isn't all that decides a top guy. Foley was brought in, impressed Vince almost right away, got control of his gimmick in a way that endeared him to Vince way more than Vince expected, and he was working with top guys for basically his whole stint there. Don't be such a mark and think that the WWF Title is the one and only market of a guy's top shelf value. He debuted after WrestleMania and was headlining PPVs by September of the same year. 

Yes, of course you "develop." It's fine to have guys of different skill and experience levels and then send them away to come back fresh and in better roles later on. It's why Drew McIntyre now doesn't feel like 3MB Drew. But that doesn't mean all your developing needs to be done in front of a national audience, or that you are guaranteed to develop. You've accepted the myth that no one ever saw anything in Steve Austin or Cactus Jack, and that someone like Orange Cassidy could magically turn into a star like them, but the premise isn't true, nor is the reality. 

Also, it is a largely accepted truism that you don't become a star in the promotion you develop in. Steve Austin and Cactus Jack had their formative years in WCW and ECW (and Japan for Jack). If you want to apply this to AEW, then you'd probably make a better case for MJF and Darby Allin becoming main event stars in the WWE.


----------



## the_flock

El Hammerstone said:


> All this talk about the company wanting to build new stars before going out and making significant signings; how about signing some new talent that one can consider far more worthy of being built into these 'new stars'. If a casual viewer were to flip on NXT and see athletes the likes of Keith Lee, Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole, Dragunov, Austin Theory, WALTER, Shayna Baszler, or Rhea Ripley and then switch to AEW and see Marko Stunt flossing and getting near falls on Chris Jericho; do you think they are going to see AEW as the real deal? Rhetorical question, because the answer is no.


Neah they need to sign established stars which dominate the top divisions and then build up the "indie stars" slowly. This is why they need more titles. Then when the established stars have gone elsewhere their younger guys can take over. 

Pushing guys like Page, MJF, Spears, Allin, Jungle Boy is just terrible business sense and proves that the Elite are booking everything and Kahn is going along with it because he's a fan boy. He needs to create a committee which isn't full of indie darlings who haven't achieved anything. Jr would have been a good choice, as would Jericho on the booking team.


----------



## the_flock

All Elite Wanking said:


> AEW just recently signed all the best women (surprisingly), Butcher & Blade, Brian Cage. They're getting top names. At least for me, I don't want them filling up a roster for the sake of taking things from the competition. WWE is stacking their roster and using 20% of it, just to keep people from AEW. AEW is stacking their roster and 95% of it gets TV time or AEW Dark time. It's up to the wrestler. You can either wrestle or be sidelined getting paid (honestly I'd choose sidelined).


How are Butcher, Blade and Brian Cage top names? They're essentially nobodies. Jr's tone of voice when BBB came through the ring said it all, with Excalibur trying his hardest to make them seem relevant.


----------



## One Shed

Garty said:


> You haters always bring up Stunt, Cassidy, Kiss, etc. as if they're the "main-event" of every show. I've got some names for you too. Jose, Rawley, Singh Brothers, etc. And if you guys believe that AEW are paying these "main-event" talent loads of cash, please, don't ever run your own business.
> 
> You also like to keep harping on the "change the world" tagline. How long has WWE been feeding you the "we give the fans what they want" tagline?


I have no problem criticizing the stupid AEW does in the same breath as I do WWE. There is no reason for those three to be employed at all by AEW. I feel the same way about No Way Jose and many other WWE guys. Why are we falling over ourselves to excuse a company doing stupid things? WWE has gone consistently downhill since 2004/2005, why would I want the one company that has a shot this decade to follow in their dumb footsteps?


----------



## One Shed

All Elite Wanking said:


> I don't think you have good examples and I don't think they're being "beaten" out by other companies. Edge would never wrestle somewhere else besides WWE; not even a consideration of AEW. Naomi would never fit in or wrestle in AEW; her husband is set for life in WWE. Killer Kross was outsmarted because WWE poached his girlfriend and ain't no man turning down Scarlett.
> 
> Marty Scrull is the one person I could see an argument for. But, with Marty in charge of piece of ROH, who's to say they don't cut a deal with AEW thanks to that. Could be a longer term plan.
> 
> AEW just recently signed all the best women (surprisingly), Butcher & Blade, Brian Cage. They're getting top names. At least for me, I don't want them filling up a roster for the sake of taking things from the competition. WWE is stacking their roster and using 20% of it, just to keep people from AEW. AEW is stacking their roster and 95% of it gets TV time or AEW Dark time. It's up to the wrestler. You can either wrestle or be sidelined getting paid (honestly I'd choose sidelined).


Who are these top women AEW has signed? I love Shida but she is standing alone in a vast chasm of irrelevance.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Eric Bischoff was a fucking idiot and people knew that at the time. Heyman, JR, Cornette and anyone that had been around Austin for any amount of time knew he was a special talent. He had been in five star matches, which were not given out like candy back then. Everyone remembers The Hollywood Blonds even though they were only together for months. Did he have to find himself in the WWF? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he had never done anything of note, ever been over, or that there weren't people even in the company he worked for that knew he was way better than The Ringmaster. You're confusing a WWF-produced fairy tale of his rise with the reality of Austin being a guy with a motor busting his ass in wrestling since he started, and absorbing basically everything he could from all the legends he shared a ring with.
> 
> It doesn't really matter if people didn't predict that Foley would win the WWF Title in the manner that he did. That isn't all that decides a top guy. Foley was brought in, impressed Vince almost right away, got control of his gimmick in a way that endeared him to Vince way more than Vince expected, and he was working with top guys for basically his whole stint there. Don't be such a mark and think that the WWF Title is the one and only market of a guy's top shelf value. He debuted after WrestleMania and was headlining PPVs by September of the same year.
> 
> Yes, of course you "develop." It's fine to have guys of different skill and experience levels and then send them away to come back fresh and in better roles later on. It's why Drew McIntyre now doesn't feel like 3MB Drew. But that doesn't mean all your developing needs to be done in front of a national audience, or that you are guaranteed to develop. You've accepted the myth that no one ever saw anything in Steve Austin or Cactus Jack, and that someone like Orange Cassidy could magically turn into a star like them, but the premise isn't true, nor is the reality.
> 
> Also, it is a largely accepted truism that you don't become a star in the promotion you develop in. Steve Austin and Cactus Jack had their formative years in WCW and ECW (and Japan for Jack). If you want to apply this to AEW, then you'd probably make a better case for MJF and Darby Allin becoming main event stars in the WWE.


You've missed the point & gone off on a massive ranting tangent - I don't think you even know what you're arguing anymore.
Never did I say nobody saw anything in those wrestlers. Nobody thought they would be top stars. Austin's promos sucked in wcw yet in wwe that's what helped lead a wrestling boom. Foley's gimmick hardly yelled top draw. Both given space on card to grow into those roles.
Same could happen to talent in aew - certainly you were wrong when you predicted company to fold before wrestlemania. You'll be wrong again


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You've missed the point & gone off on a massive ranting tangent - I don't think you even know what you're arguing anymore.
> Never did I say nobody saw anything in those wrestlers. Nobody thought they would be top stars. Austin's promos sucked in wcw yet in wwe that's what helped lead a wrestling boom. Foley's gimmick hardly yelled top draw. Both given space on card to grow into those roles.
> Same could happen to talent in aew - certainly you were wrong when you predicted company to fold before wrestlemania. You'll be wrong again


Except Foley was brought in to be a top star with The Undertaker. That's exactly what I'm saying. And Heyman obviously saw top stars in them with how he used them in ECW. People knew Austin would be a top star in the WWF within six months of him being there. It took Vince a bit longer, but there were plenty of people who heard his promo after winning King of the Ring that absolutely thought he had top guy potential. 

And that's exactly what I said about guys leaving the company to go and try new gimmicks somewhere else. It's not like they slowly progressed up the card. Foley was working Taker and Michaels within months and Austin showed up in 1996 and by the end of the year was having matches with Bret Hart at the Survivor Series.

Austin was also seven years into his pro career when the WWF hired him. Foley 13 years. It was hardly them lacing boots for the first time. Your analogy to what AEW has set up just doesn't work for a lot of the talent they do have signed. Guevara has about as much time as Austin, but MJF and Darby Allin both have years before it will become muscle memory to them. 

And, if you want to talk about tangents, I don't know why you'd even bring up my "predictions." I'd like to know when I made that though, because I _didn't_ predict that they'd be out of business by WrestleMania. I've been very adamant that they can stay open for as long as the Khans want to put money into it, because they've got the money. That line has never changed. You are lying. Why do the AEW fanboys find the need to do this?


----------



## Hangman

Yeah they somehow missed top talent like Tenille, Marty, Mercedes, Morrison /Mundo and who did they get instead?

Marko Stunt, Pockets and The butcher, the Baker and the candlestick maker. 

They have really improved the company haven't they ?


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> Yet if you look at Vince McMahon in 96-98. He was letting talent leave and wasn't spending big money to bring guys in. He created new young stars or repackaged guys into new gimmicks(Kane, New Age Outlaws, APA etc). Or signed cast offs like XPac or Big Boss Man.


Simply not true at all. 

He spent big on Marc Mero, Vader, Sid, Honky Tonk Man, Warrior, Hawk & Animal, Shamrock and others. Brought in some absolute dross and a lot of it in order to try and compete with WCW. 

I'm not sure about letting talent leave, he thought Nash and Hall would re-sign, he cocked up massively letting them go to the point he hired 2 guys to play fake versions of them. He offered Bret a huge 20 year contract in order to stop him leaving. He offered Hogan a massive deal at the end of 96, but WCW trumped it. Brought in a guy to play a fake version of the Undertaker when it seemed like he might be jumping ship. The only guys he really let go were those who were ancient or not wrestling anymore like Dibiase.


----------



## the_flock

Pippen94 said:


> Nobody would've picked HHH, Austin & Foley as main event players. Who knows who the next star will be? Clogging card with free agents will stop anyone with potential from developing - you can say that's part why wcw died.


Cactus Jack was having high profile feuds for the world title against Sting, Vader and Simmons. Was a tag team champion and had a new offer on the table when he left. 

Austin had already won the TV, US and Tag team titles. Worked with the likes of Steamboat, Flair, Sting, Rude, Windham. Had a shot at Chono's NWA World title. There was talk amongst the IWC at that time that he was going to be world champion within a couple of years. Flair was high on him and was said to want a feud for the world title with him. He was set to join the four Horsemen in 95 before being fired and was ranked number 6 in the pwi 500 in 1994.

Arn Anderson was very high on HHH and was essentially taking him under his wing. He was offered a guaranteed tag team title run with Regal as the Blue Bloods and a new lengthy contract before he left. 

To suggest these guys were nobodies is bull shit. Its not even comparable to AEW and their midcard.


----------



## the_flock

Pippen94 said:


> Austin's promos sucked in wcw yet in wwe that's what helped lead a wrestling boom. Foley's gimmick hardly yelled top draw.


And yet Austin promos with Pillman against Flair and Arn are ranked amongst some of the best in WCW history. Flair and Steamboat feud is also ranked amongst the best in WCW history. 

Foley was doing stuff nobody had seen before, he was a suicidal maniac and genuinely scared the crap out of the boardroom to the point where they were getting bothered about him potentially killing himself and them having a lawsuit on their hands. He was a cross between Brody and Snuka. His feud with Vader is legendary. He could have easily had a world title rum because he was so exciting and unpredictable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

People casually dragging Orange Cassidy in their posts - acting like he won‘t be the biggest star in all of wrestling by the end of 2020


----------



## Pippen94

the_flock said:


> Cactus Jack was having high profile feuds for the world title against Sting, Vader and Simmons. Was a tag team champion and had a new offer on the table when he left.
> 
> Austin had already won the TV, US and Tag team titles. Worked with the likes of Steamboat, Flair, Sting, Rude, Windham. Had a shot at Chono's NWA World title. There was talk amongst the IWC at that time that he was going to be world champion within a couple of years. Flair was high on him and was said to want a feud for the world title with him. He was set to join the four Horsemen in 95 before being fired and was ranked number 6 in the pwi 500 in 1994.
> 
> Arn Anderson was very high on HHH and was essentially taking him under his wing. He was offered a guaranteed tag team title run with Regal as the Blue Bloods and a new lengthy contract before he left.
> 
> To suggest these guys were nobodies is bull shit. Its not even comparable to AEW and their midcard.


Don't put words into my mouth - never said no bodies. All mid card talent that wcw had no problem dumping for more established wwe names. Each got chance to shine in less crowded company. Aew would be advised to have faith in its young talent.
If anybody said they knew Stunning Steve would become the biggest draw in wwe history or even Stone Cold they are a liar or troll like TheWood


----------



## Pippen94

the_flock said:


> And yet Austin promos with Pillman against Flair and Arn are ranked amongst some of the best in WCW history. Flair and Steamboat feud is also ranked amongst the best in WCW history.
> 
> Foley was doing stuff nobody had seen before, he was a suicidal maniac and genuinely scared the crap out of the boardroom to the point where they were getting bothered about him potentially killing himself and them having a lawsuit on their hands. He was a cross between Brody and Snuka. His feud with Vader is legendary. He could have easily had a world title rum because he was so exciting and unpredictable.


There was no bidding war for these guys in 1995. If only you could go back in time like Biff Tannen - make some money


----------



## Pippen94

the_flock said:


> Simply not true at all.
> 
> He spent big on Marc Mero, Vader, Sid, Honky Tonk Man, Warrior, Hawk & Animal, Shamrock and others. Brought in some absolute dross and a lot of it in order to try and compete with WCW.
> 
> I'm not sure about letting talent leave, he thought Nash and Hall would re-sign, he cocked up massively letting them go to the point he hired 2 guys to play fake versions of them. He offered Bret a huge 20 year contract in order to stop him leaving. He offered Hogan a massive deal at the end of 96, but WCW trumped it. Brought in a guy to play a fake version of the Undertaker when it seemed like he might be jumping ship. The only guys he really let go were those who were ancient or not wrestling anymore like Dibiase.


Let Bret go to save money


----------



## the_flock

Pippen94 said:


> There was no bidding war for these guys in 1995. If only you could go back in time like Biff Tannen - make some money


I was part of the IWC back then and Austin, Rhodes, Cactus and Johnny B. Badd were tipped to be the biggest stars in the industry within the next few years, that's was in 95.


----------



## fabi1982

I read so many strange comments here. Why argue over what happened back in the 90‘s, even with @the_flock being right.

I know AEW said they want to change the business, but just look at the cards each week. It is mostly Mox, Jericho, Cody, Pac and the Elite, besides the Elite, what does the others have in common? So they know they have to sign WWE guys. No one besides Hangman really looks like becoming a „star“. Of course Darby gets reactions, but in matches not against the big guys he loses viewers. Same with Jungle Boy etc. AEW needs a bigger roster, Cody said couple month ago this is just 40% of the roster, so they really want like 60 more people. But where to find them besides WWE? And when even a Killer Kross is signing with WWE then it really is hard to think they will find 60 guys who actually have a following besides some indy fans.

And then you see all the „unhappy“ people resign, so who is left? Brodie? Revival? Dont know why people mentioning Rusev tbh. But still, this is 4 people, with a new tv show coming, this is not enough.

But I guess this gets lost in the minds of the AEW fans who just want to defend their precious dynamite. When you look at it objectively you will see that they have a problem (of course no money or ratings problem, but a longevity problem).

We will see in June how things play out with the guys mentioned, but if just Revival and Archer are coming, then this is really missing out on talent.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> You haters always bring up Stunt, Cassidy, Kiss, etc. as if they're the "main-event" of every show. I've got some names for you too. Jose, Rawley, Singh Brothers, etc. And if you guys believe that AEW are paying these "main-event" talent loads of cash, please, don't ever run your own business.
> 
> You also like to keep harping on the "change the world" tagline. How long has WWE been feeding you the "we give the fans what they want" tagline?


Again, who has said WWE is perfect? Their issues just don't get debated ad nauseam because everyone over the age of 15 agrees. Plus they have 67 hours a week to spread their talent around.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> How are Butcher, Blade and Brian Cage top names? They're essentially nobodies. Jr's tone of voice when BBB came through the ring said it all, with Excalibur trying his hardest to make them seem relevant.


Cage yes and Butcher and Blade no. Cage would be just as big signing for AEW as Killer Kross would be. Both are guys you would push near top of the card and expect both to be bigger stars on bigger stage.


As for Butcher and Blade. They aren't big signings and appear to be more job guys for tag division. But some still think they were good signing. Since they add little different style of wrestling to tag division.


----------



## Cult03

K4L318 said:


> they on TV for 4 months starting from scratch wit western culture wrestlers and indie geeks growing into a personality.
> 
> They where they should be. What is wearing out is how many times ya can send a main roster talent to NXT and have the watch value go down. If main roster WWE guy or girl goes to NXT, there is no reason to watch them on RAW or Smackdown dat same week.


What?


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Simply not true at all.
> 
> He spent big on Marc Mero, Vader, Sid, Honky Tonk Man, Warrior, Hawk & Animal, Shamrock and others. Brought in some absolute dross and a lot of it in order to try and compete with WCW.
> 
> I'm not sure about letting talent leave, he thought Nash and Hall would re-sign, he cocked up massively letting them go to the point he hired 2 guys to play fake versions of them. He offered Bret a huge 20 year contract in order to stop him leaving. He offered Hogan a massive deal at the end of 96, but WCW trumped it. Brought in a guy to play a fake version of the Undertaker when it seemed like he might be jumping ship. The only guys he really let go were those who were ancient or not wrestling anymore like Dibiase.


Most of those guys were signed early 96 when company was doing well enough. Vince also resigned Bret Hart that year. Post Hogan joining NWO going into 97 is when they weren't making money and let guys go. Shamrock is example of getting guy on the cheap. Since people didn't see real fighters as big deal like they are today. Point was it took them from really early to mid 96. Until Big Show in early 1999. Before they really added what you would call big free agent. They became bigger then ever on cast offs and creating new stars.


Ringmaster went to Stone Cold, Mankind went to really Mick Foley, Fake Diesel/Isaac Yakkem went to Kane. Got Rock and Triple H over leading groups. New Age Outlaws changed from country gimmicks etc. 


My point is the theory to bring in the biggest names doesnt always work best. There's a lot of talented guys in the wrestling business. Who companies miss out on. Because they might have got lost in the shuffle or maybe weren't ready for big spotlight at the time. 


WWE showed exactly how you create your own stars and it changed the tide in the wrestling business. Even when WCW tried to belittle someone like Mick Foley as a lesser talent then what they had. It only back fired on them more.


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> WWE showed exactly how you create your own stars and it changed the tide in the wrestling business. Even when WCW tried to belittle someone like Mick Foley as a lesser talent then what they had. It only back fired on them more.


I agree with you that guys often go under the radar, but more often than not they have a preverbial glass ceiling and like most sports if they can't breakthrough at a top club/promotion they will do so on a smaller stage,but that doesn't mean that everyone deserves their chance because every individual in this world has a certain cap for their potential, its just some people are better than others.

As I said previously a lot of the IWC were clamouring over Al Snow and wanted him to be the top guy in WWF in the mid 90s, likewise a lot were touting Billy Kidman for greatness in WCW and I believe he got a shot at Hogan and it was very evident that he looked ridiculous, likewise Nash lawn darting Rey Mysterio Jr. Just showed the difference in the stars.

Obviously there are exceptions such as Curt Hennig should have been champion in the early 90s,but he came from good stock, had great credentials and had been world champion elsewhere. 

When you look at AEW though, the vast majority of them are your Al Snows and Billy Kidman and not your Curt Hennigs.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

Lheurch said:


> Who are these top women AEW has signed? I love Shida but she is standing alone in a vast chasm of irrelevance.


No, you're right. That's why I said "surprisingly". Some of the signees are still the best, but not very good. 

Come to think about it, WWE women are probably getting huge raises because WWE knows to keep them and let AEW continue shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

the_flock said:


> How are Butcher, Blade and Brian Cage top names? They're essentially nobodies. Jr's tone of voice when BBB came through the ring said it all, with Excalibur trying his hardest to make them seem relevant.


Brian Cage was absolutely the biggest free agent in the world AEW could have signed.

If you don't know Brian Cage then you haven't been watching wrestling.


----------



## Garty

@The Wood _And, if you want to talk about tangents, I don't know why you'd even bring up my "predictions." I'd like to know when I made that though, because I didn't predict that they'd be out of business by WrestleMania. I've been very adamant that they can stay open for as long as the Khans want to put money into it, because they've got the money. That line has never changed. You are lying. Why do the AEW fanboys find the need to do this?_

Maybe not out of business by WrestleMania and before the announcement of the new TV deal... I'd like you to re-read what you've said quite a few times previously...

_- "I don’t think they’ll be dead within a year, but I think the dream might be over within one." _

- _"I think this will happen by the end of 2020, but don't be surprised if it happens way sooner than you think."

- "AEW has had their "83 weeks." They've got nowhere else to go."_

@Cult03 _Again, who has said WWE is perfect? Their issues just don't get debated ad nauseam because everyone over the age of 15 agrees. Plus they have 67 hours a week to spread their talent around._

I sure as hell don't and I have never said that AEW was perfect, but if the WWE good, far outweighs the WWE bad, why aren't they talking about the good, in the multiple WWE forums? AEW has one forum page. One. That's it. We'd like to be able to discuss AEW, but you few guys, say the same shit (just like I'm doing now), derail every thread, turning anything positive into a negative, thus making the conversations pointless. Why do you think most threads are ended by you and Woodsy? Who wants to keep arguing with you guys, every single day, in every single thread? It's tiresome and expired.

What I do point out, 100% of the time, is the users that hate AEW, bring up petty incidents (like Dude's Cero Miedo glove post and another guy, posting about The Lucha Bros entrance theme music, for its lyrics), forcing your "opinion" on us and tell us that our "opinion" is wrong. YOUR opinion is YOUR opinion. MY opinion is MY opinion. HIS opinion is HIS opinion. It doesn't make anything we all say, is right or wrong. We can agree. We can disagree. But, in the end, it's still an opinion.

That is the obvious problem with this board. Opinions are not facts.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> I agree with you that guys often go under the radar, but more often than not they have a preverbial glass ceiling and like most sports if they can't breakthrough at a top club/promotion they will do so on a smaller stage,but that doesn't mean that everyone deserves their chance because every individual in this world has a certain cap for their potential, its just some people are better than others.
> 
> As I said previously a lot of the IWC were clamouring over Al Snow and wanted him to be the top guy in WWF in the mid 90s, likewise a lot were touting Billy Kidman for greatness in WCW and I believe he got a shot at Hogan and it was very evident that he looked ridiculous, likewise Nash lawn darting Rey Mysterio Jr. Just showed the difference in the stars.
> 
> Obviously there are exceptions such as Curt Hennig should have been champion in the early 90s,but he came from good stock, had great credentials and had been world champion elsewhere.
> 
> When you look at AEW though, the vast majority of them are your Al Snows and Billy Kidman and not your Curt Hennigs.


That's opinion bases and flawed to judge that at this point. Nobody can tell how younger guys can evolve when given the opportunity. For every Kidman there's Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy. Back in 1998 nobody could have predicted who's stars or not. Just like you can't predict that about Darby, Guevara or Jungle Boy now.


I remember Cody Rhodes in WWE I never saw him as a star or liked him. But right now he comes off as bigger star then most top guys in WWE do for me. While I use to like Miz but know he looks like a joke compared to MJF.


Plus things are even more different then the 90s. Back then there where options and wrestlers had more opportunities. For the last few years before AEW. Wrestlers had nowhere to really go besides WWE. So if Vince/Triple H didn't see you as a star or didn't like something about you. Well they were never going to give you the opportunity to be a top guy.


I think the fact that Drew McIntyre. Who WWE had as a jobber and released him at one point. Then three years ago they bought him back as a top guy on NXT and Raw. After he went to indies and Impact and show how good he could be if given a shot. Now he's main eventing Wrestlemania vs Lesnar. I think shows WWE can drop the ball on guys. They judge a wrestler as something and never give them a chance after that to do more.


----------



## K4L318

Cult03 said:


> What?


if I see ya on TV Monday and Wednesday and both stories sucks which most of WWE does, I tune out. The new fan aint tuning in, if anything they'll miss RAW and watch elsewhere.


----------



## ericwaskk

French Connection said:


> The only guy who could have been a huge add-on to the roster, is CM Punk.
> I never fantasized on Orton or any other names people advised here or there.
> Anyway I don't think it will change the ratings that much for AEW.



O c'mon now you can't tell Orton going to AEW wouldn't drive up ratings at least for a short period limited amount of time.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

ericwaskk said:


> O c'mon now you can't tell Orton going to AEW wouldn't drive up ratings at least for a short period limited amount of time.


I really dont think it would. Orton has never been a draw and doesn't exactly get the biggest reactions from the fans, face or heel. I just find him boring and I think many, many fans agree. He was supposed to be the needle mover in Evolution but that ended up being Batista.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

ericwaskk said:


> O c'mon now you can't tell Orton going to AEW wouldn't drive up ratings at least for a short period limited amount of time.


And even if he did for a short period of time you are still stuck paying him for 5 years. No thanks. Punk and Cena are the only wrestlers that the WWE has produced since the Rock/Austin days that would be worth the cash that it would take to get them.


----------



## RiverFenix

Punk isn't even moving the needle on the FS1 show anymore. Dude is barely above statistical noise bump now. He did AEW a favor by not accepting their deal - he wasn't lowballed as he didn't accept a wwe offer either - he's getting paid much less to whine about wwe by Fox. Punk simply isn't motivated to wrestle and without a complete mindset buy in he'd just be a lockerroom cancer. My interest in Punk is when I thought he'd be interested in signing originally to give AEW a boost and to really stick it to Vince/HHH. That isn't where he's at.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Orton is a bigger star and more mainstream than every single person in AEW, even Jericho.


----------



## ericwaskk

TKO Wrestling said:


> I really dont think it would. Orton has never been a draw and doesn't exactly get the biggest reactions from the fans, face or heel. I just find him boring and I think many, many fans agree. He was supposed to be the needle mover in Evolution but that ended up being Batista.


Look I'm not saying there would be a huge spike in viewership although c'mon it's Randy Orton ( one of the biggest stars in pro wrestling in the past twenty years, and I'm not comparing him to Cena or Punk or Batista) but what I am saying you can't tell me viewership wouldn't increase. 

I mean we are talking about Randy Orton here not Dillinger or Barretta.


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> Orton is a bigger star and more mainstream than every single person in AEW, even Jericho.


Orton nowhere close to Jericho. No non wrestling fans know who Orton is. You need to get out of your WWE fan boy bubble. First of all Jericho a best selling author. He's hosted tv shows, he's in a band that opens for big acts. He's been on Dancing with the Stars etc.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Orton nowhere close to Jericho. No non wrestling fans know who Orton is. You need to get out of your WWE fan boy bubble. First of all Jericho a best selling author. He's hosted tv shows, he's in a band that opens for big acts. He's been on Dancing with the Stars etc.


don’t forget to mention that Jericho was wrestling at the height of the attitude era. More people will know Y2J than RKO. Easily.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> O c'mon now you can't tell Orton going to AEW wouldn't drive up ratings at least for a short period limited amount of time.


It would give them a boost for few weeks or month. But like we saw with TNA. That stars jumping to new company buzz wears off quick. If they could have gotten Orton for reasonable money. Then AEW should have signed him. But it would have been idiotic move. To outbid WWE to make it happen. Randy Orton not taking ratings from 900,000 to 1.5 million or whatever that's for sure. Or making attendance sell out every show or taking ppv buys from 100 to 200. Him joining the roster would have a minimal impact long term.


----------



## ericwaskk

TKO Wrestling said:


> And even if he did for a short period of time you are still stuck paying him for 5 years. No thanks. Punk and Cena are the only wrestlers that the WWE has produced since the Rock/Austin days that would be worth the cash that it would take to get them.


I don't think money is much of an issue for the Khan family. You know you keep saying Punk and Cena and I have to tell you there have been times where Orton has pretty popular, and you talk about creating mega stars I would classify Edge as mega star and I'd classify Kurt Angle as a mega star as well. I'd even say the Miz has had a very solid career and has been a star for a long time now.


----------



## the_flock

People saying Orton isn't big. He's got 5x as many followers than Jericho. He would have been the biggest draw they could have gotten apart from Cena, Reigns or Lesnar. 

Back to Edge, 5 of my friends who haven't watched WWE for over a decade are now watching again just because they heard Edge was at the Royal Rumble. I wonder how many other people are now tuning in for Edge. Yet people are saying he wouldn't have shifted the needle.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ericwaskk said:


> I don't think money is much of an issue for the Khan family. You know you keep saying Punk and Cena and I have to tell you there have been times where Orton has pretty popular, and you talk about creating mega stars I would classify Edge as mega star and I'd classify Kurt Angle as a mega star as well. I'd even say the Miz has had a very solid career and has been a star for a long time now.


Money isn't an issue, but the Khans know what they are doing. Throwing money at someone to barely move a needle is not how business is done. 

They know what they are doing. I'm assuming here, but I can guess that you are not a billionaire businessman?


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> People saying Orton isn't big. He's got 5x as many followers than Jericho. He would have been the biggest draw they could have gotten apart from Cena, Reigns or Lesnar.
> 
> Back to Edge, 5 of my friends who haven't watched WWE for over a decade are now watching again just because they heard Edge was at the Royal Rumble. I wonder how many other people are now tuning in for Edge. Yet people are saying he wouldn't have shifted the needle.


Twitter following thing is stupid. You just called Lesnar bigger star. Yet Orton has 4 million more followers then Brock lol.


As for Edge WWE paying him 3 million a year to wrestle 3 times a year and show up on tv 25 times. That amount of money for lack of actual wrestling isn't going to be a needle mover for AEW. It would be a different story if Edge was wrestling all the time like Jericho is for AEW. Edge basically has 2004, 2006-2007 Mick Foley deal. But for a crap load more money. 


If AEW could get Edge at deal like TNA got from Mick Foley in 2009. When he was on tv every week and wrestled like 10-15 times a year then it might be a needle mover. But again Foley going to TNA wasn't a needle mover for them....


----------



## ericwaskk

optikk sucks said:


> Money isn't an issue, but the Khans know what they are doing. Throwing money at someone to barely move a needle is not how business is done.
> 
> They know what they are doing. I'm assuming here, but I can guess that you are not a billionaire businessman?


Ok here's my whole thing why not sigh Orton? I think he could be a major star there, and you know I think it would move the needle more then just a little bit. 

Feuds with Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Page, and Omega, I think all that would be great plus a TV 14 Randy Orton as well, it could be a huge move for AEW , the guy is a legend let's be honest here.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

ericwaskk said:


> Ok here's my whole thing why not sigh Orton? I think he could be a major star there, and you know I think it would move the needle more then just a little bit.
> 
> Feuds with Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Page, and Omega, I think all that would be great plus a TV 14 Randy Orton as well, it could be a huge move for AEW , the guy is a legend let's be honest here.


Well yeah, I actually agree with you. As a fan, I would’ve liked to see Orton in AEW. 

However, as a business owner, would signing Orton be cost effective? AEW are a new company, Khans have many other businesses. They are barely profitable. Can they actually afford Orton? Will he put them over 2 million consistently? If the answer is no, then he is not worth it.
And if Khans know how to do business (which they do) they would have analysts on the case - people experienced in knowing the most cost efficient salary - ie the least amount of money they can give to bring in that rating and keep being profitable. Or maybe I am overthinking it.

but if they are basing their business routines on the attitude era (which they’ve admitted to), they would know that a high price contract is only a short term gain.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> Ok here's my whole thing why not sigh Orton? I think he could be a major star there, and you know I think it would move the needle more then just a little bit.
> 
> Feuds with Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Page, and Omega, I think all that would be great plus a TV 14 Randy Orton as well, it could be a huge move for AEW , the guy is a legend let's be honest here.



The only reason why they wouldn't add a guy like Orton. Is if the cost got too high. It doesn't make sense for AEW to outbid WWE. If Orton would wanna come to AEW. It can't be about making the most total dollars.


----------



## Bloody Warpath

imthegame19 said:


> That's opinion bases and flawed to judge that at this point. Nobody can tell how younger guys can evolve when given the opportunity. For every Kidman there's Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy. Back in 1998 nobody could have predicted who's stars or not. Just like you can't predict that about Darby, Guevara or Jungle Boy now.
> 
> 
> I remember Cody Rhodes in WWE I never saw him as a star or liked him. But right now he comes off as bigger star then most top guys in WWE do for me. While I use to like Miz but know he looks like a joke compared to MJF.
> 
> 
> Plus things are even more different then the 90s. Back then there where options and wrestlers had more opportunities. For the last few years before AEW. Wrestlers had nowhere to really go besides WWE. So if Vince/Triple H didn't see you as a star or didn't like something about you. Well they were never going to give you the opportunity to be a top guy.
> 
> 
> I think the fact that Drew McIntyre. Who WWE had as a jobber and released him at one point. Then three years ago they bought him back as a top guy on NXT and Raw. After he went to indies and Impact and show how good he could be if given a shot. Now he's main eventing Wrestlemania vs Lesnar. I think shows WWE can drop the ball on guys. They judge a wrestler as something and never give them a chance after that to do more.


Even Drew said that he was not ready for the Chosen One role. He was young and had a bad attitude. He had to go away and grow as a person so that he could come back.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> @The Wood _And, if you want to talk about tangents, I don't know why you'd even bring up my "predictions." I'd like to know when I made that though, because I didn't predict that they'd be out of business by WrestleMania. I've been very adamant that they can stay open for as long as the Khans want to put money into it, because they've got the money. That line has never changed. You are lying. Why do the AEW fanboys find the need to do this?_
> 
> Maybe not out of business by WrestleMania and before the announcement of the new TV deal... I'd like you to re-read what you've said quite a few times previously...
> 
> _- "I don’t think they’ll be dead within a year, but I think the dream might be over within one." _
> 
> - _"I think this will happen by the end of 2020, but don't be surprised if it happens way sooner than you think."
> 
> - "AEW has had their "83 weeks." They've got nowhere else to go."_
> 
> @Cult03 _Again, who has said WWE is perfect? Their issues just don't get debated ad nauseam because everyone over the age of 15 agrees. Plus they have 67 hours a week to spread their talent around._
> 
> I sure as hell don't and I have never said that AEW was perfect, but if the WWE good, far outweighs the WWE bad, why aren't they talking about the good, in the multiple WWE forums? AEW has one forum page. One. That's it. We'd like to be able to discuss AEW, but you few guys, say the same shit (just like I'm doing now), derail every thread, turning anything positive into a negative, thus making the conversations pointless. Why do you think most threads are ended by you and Woodsy? Who wants to keep arguing with you guys, every single day, in every single thread? It's tiresome and expired.
> 
> What I do point out, 100% of the time, is the users that hate AEW, bring up petty incidents (like Dude's Cero Miedo glove post and another guy, posting about The Lucha Bros entrance theme music, for its lyrics), forcing your "opinion" on us and tell us that our "opinion" is wrong. YOUR opinion is YOUR opinion. MY opinion is MY opinion. HIS opinion is HIS opinion. It doesn't make anything we all say, is right or wrong. We can agree. We can disagree. But, in the end, it's still an opinion.
> 
> That is the obvious problem with this board. Opinions are not facts.


That's my point though. Whenever you're attempting to debate us you always use WWE as an example when AEW does something wrong. But none of us are sticking up for WWE either because for the most part, their product has been terrible for over a decade. It's really not a good measuring stick. WWE being shit does not excuse AEW.

Just so everyone knows, Garty isn't a mod here and doesn't get to tell anyone what to do. You don't need to precede your posts by announcing that your opinion is an opinion, people should just be able to comprehend that because they're adults and it's pretty obvious. If you back up your opinion with facts then it should be taken more seriously, and if your opinion is that Marko Stunt should never step into a televised wrestling ring, that's not an opinion. That's straight facts.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> I really dont think it would. Orton has never been a draw and doesn't exactly get the biggest reactions from the fans, face or heel. I just find him boring and I think many, many fans agree. He was supposed to be the needle mover in Evolution but that ended up being Batista.


He hasn't drawn on shows with 3 million viewers or whatever, but he would absolutely draw on a show with 900k viewers. There's literally no logical way you could possibly deny this


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> Orton nowhere close to Jericho. No non wrestling fans know who Orton is. You need to get out of your WWE fan boy bubble. First of all Jericho a best selling author. He's hosted tv shows, he's in a band that opens for big acts. He's been on Dancing with the Stars etc.


You realize there's been a meme going around for the last few years where Orton RKO's anybody falling over "outta nowhere"? He's very fucking well known by a lot of people who aren't into wrestling.


----------



## imthegame19

Bloody Warpath said:


> Even Drew said that he was not ready for the Chosen One role. He was young and had a bad attitude. He had to go away and grow as a person so that he could come back.


He wasn't ready when he first got pushed and that was probably true. But that's the problem WWE basically gave up on him.


Leaving WWE gave him creative freedom to develop his character. Which he didn't have freedom to do in WWE after they gave up on him.


Don't buy the stuff with him blaming it all on himself. That's the brain washing nonsense WWE feeds into their wrestlers minds. Remember he's back with the company. So he's not gonna speak the truth. Same thing happened to to him as it did Cody(who they also tried to get back)and other guys. They view you as something and it takes a lot for them to change their minds from that.


It took WWE to see what he was doing in TNA. To say oh wow where was this guy. We want you back here's more money then you are making now etc. Even probably sold him on going to NXT as fresh start and help erase memories of three man Band Drew McIntyre.


----------



## Bosnian21

How many more top guys will even become available within the next year or two?

Of course Punk is still technically a free agent, but at this point I doubt he signs with AEW. Maybe something could change his mind but I don’t get that vibe right now.

Anyone know what other stars are (relatively) soon to be free agents ir may want to return to wrestling?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Why do people keep talking about CM Punk as if he's gonna start wrestling again?


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Why do people keep talking about CM Punk as if he's gonna start wrestling again?


I think he will return eventually, but I hope AEW miss out because he wouldn't be able to help himself talking about the competition. Unless they're going all out in the war with them, he's an absolute liability.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> I think he will return eventually, but I hope AEW miss out because he wouldn't be able to help himself talking about the competition. Unless they're going all out in the war with them, he's an absolute liability.


I don't. I feel like he would've been returned if he wanted to.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Okay, so I just learned that Jeff Cobb is no longer exclusive to ROH and is working on a show to show basis; so in essence, he is a free agent. 

The downsides are that Jeff Cobb is 37 and only about 5'8"/5'9", but he is thick and has a prime Taz like build to him; on the topic of Taz, Cobb wrestles a very similar style with a large assortment of suplexes, and really presents a different dynamic to what the others in AEW do. Any interest here?


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> Okay, so I just learned that Jeff Cobb is no longer exclusive to ROH and is working on a show to show basis; so in essence, he is a free agent.
> 
> The downsides are that Jeff Cobb is 37 and only about 5'8"/5'9", but he is thick and has a prime Taz like build to him; on the topic of Taz, Cobb wrestles a very similar style with a large assortment of suplexes, and really presents a different dynamic to what the others in AEW do. Any interest here?


I watched him in G1 this summer and wasn't that impressed. I don't see much potential outside as midcard/job guy. He also doesn't have Tazz mic skills. Which really made him.


----------



## El Hammerstone

imthegame19 said:


> I watched him in G1 this summer and wasn't that impressed. I don't see much potential outside as *midcard/job guy*. He also doesn't have Tazz mic skills. Which really made him.


That's all he would need to be tbh


----------



## imthegame19

Bosnian21 said:


> How many more top guys will even become available within the next year or two?
> 
> Of course Punk is still technically a free agent, but at this point I doubt he signs with AEW. Maybe something could change his mind but I don’t get that vibe right now.
> 
> Anyone know what other stars are (relatively) soon to be free agents ir may want to return to wrestling?



Killer Kross-FA
Brian Cage-FA
Lance Archer (available once New Beginning tour is done)
Matt Hardy-March 3rd
Luke Harper-March 8th
Revival-April?
Rey Mysterio-October 2020
Rusev-2020
Ryback plans to return to wrestling in 2020.
Jeff Hardy 2021
Daniel Bryan 2021

Roman Reigns, Strowman, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Miz, New Day, Orton, Elias, Jinder Mahal, Uso, Edge, Gallows/Anderson, Nakamuara, AJ Styles, John Morrison, Mojo Rawley are all signed through 2022 at least.


So that leaves unknowns like Seth Rollins, Drew McIntyre, Bray Wyatt, Samoa Joe, Baron Corbin, Fin Balor, Bobby Lashley, Dolly Ziggler, Robert Roode,Cesaro, EC3 and guys like that as unknowns. Considering we haven't heard about them potentially being available this year. I'm guessing that won't be free agents until at least 2021.


As for other places a guy like Juice Robinson is signed until 2022 and Ospreay is signed until 2024. In Impact RVD might come available sometime in 2020. Every one else on Impact that people would want seem locked up until 2021.

So AEW needs to hit on and get some of the guys coming available soon. Outside of that they need to make their stars bigger stars and build new stars. Because I don't see another popular former WWE champion like Moxley in his prime available to join AEW any time soon.


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> That's all he would need to be tbh



That would be fine. But no rush right now. They only have room for so many guys right now and have a lot of wrestlers under contract. So I think they will see how things play out over next 2-5 months. Because I think say Matt Hardy could be a lot more valuable in mid card then say Jeff Cobb. Along with seeing what guys step up. If Wardlow ends up looking good vs Cody. They could start using him a lot. Same goes with Hager if he ever wrestles.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Don't put words into my mouth - never said no bodies. All mid card talent that wcw had no problem dumping for more established wwe names. Each got chance to shine in less crowded company. Aew would be advised to have faith in its young talent.
> If anybody said they knew Stunning Steve would become the biggest draw in wwe history or even Stone Cold they are a liar or troll like TheWood


You are equating them to the AEW mid-card, which is just ridiculous. People _were_ talking about Austin being a big star. He was rubbing shoulders with the top workers in the world all the time, and was already someone you could put in matches that were designed to draw. You're trying to take on the myth that Austin was a nobody in order to justify signing anybody, because nobody can become somebody, but that's literally not the precedent. 



Pippen94 said:


> Let Bret go to save money


He boosted up PPV which allowed him to pay Bret. There was tension because HBK was still on a $750k per year deal, and when you pop the bank for one guy you've got to do it for all guys. He also knew that WCW would not know how to use Bret Hart and he had no political allies there. 

None of that has anything to do with the scenario AEW finds themselves in. Shad Khan has got more money than Vince McMahon did then. He could pay Bret his old WWF contract for over 300 years with the money he had tapped to buy a stadium. Stop trying to make it sound like the Khans can't afford to pay talent seven or even eight figures a year in order to get stars to appear on their television instead of a bunch of no-marks. 



Garty said:


> @The Wood _And, if you want to talk about tangents, I don't know why you'd even bring up my "predictions." I'd like to know when I made that though, because I didn't predict that they'd be out of business by WrestleMania. I've been very adamant that they can stay open for as long as the Khans want to put money into it, because they've got the money. That line has never changed. You are lying. Why do the AEW fanboys find the need to do this?_
> 
> Maybe not out of business by WrestleMania and before the announcement of the new TV deal... I'd like you to re-read what you've said quite a few times previously...
> 
> _- "I don’t think they’ll be dead within a year, but I think the dream might be over within one." _
> 
> - _"I think this will happen by the end of 2020, but don't be surprised if it happens way sooner than you think."
> 
> - "AEW has had their "83 weeks." They've got nowhere else to go."_
> 
> @Cult03 _Again, who has said WWE is perfect? Their issues just don't get debated ad nauseam because everyone over the age of 15 agrees. Plus they have 67 hours a week to spread their talent around._
> 
> I sure as hell don't and I have never said that AEW was perfect, but if the WWE good, far outweighs the WWE bad, why aren't they talking about the good, in the multiple WWE forums? AEW has one forum page. One. That's it. We'd like to be able to discuss AEW, but you few guys, say the same shit (just like I'm doing now), derail every thread, turning anything positive into a negative, thus making the conversations pointless. Why do you think most threads are ended by you and Woodsy? Who wants to keep arguing with you guys, every single day, in every single thread? It's tiresome and expired.
> 
> What I do point out, 100% of the time, is the users that hate AEW, bring up petty incidents (like Dude's Cero Miedo glove post and another guy, posting about The Lucha Bros entrance theme music, for its lyrics), forcing your "opinion" on us and tell us that our "opinion" is wrong. YOUR opinion is YOUR opinion. MY opinion is MY opinion. HIS opinion is HIS opinion. It doesn't make anything we all say, is right or wrong. We can agree. We can disagree. But, in the end, it's still an opinion.
> 
> That is the obvious problem with this board. Opinions are not facts.


And I stand by all those comments. Not one of those -- one which you have _grievously_ used out of context and know it, liar -- is "AEW is going out of business." 

* "I don't think they'll be dead in a year" is _exactly the opposite_ of saying that they will be dead in a year. My reference to the dream was in relation to massive TV rights fees. Turns out they got some, but not massive. Hmm. It's almost like what I said was true. We're at the start of 2020 and WWE, for as shit as they've been for so many years, is stealing the show with an amazing Rumble and what seems like it could be a hot build for WrestleMania. Things like that _will_ affect AEW's business. Come back to me at the end of 2020 and call me out on my prediction being wrong if it looks like they are in a position to start drawing over 2 million people and secure WWE-level rights fees _which has always been the goal._ We'll see for sure in four or five years whether they land a big deal or whether Tony Khan folds up shop or downgrades and says "It was nice and we did our best," which is absolute bullshit, by the way. 

* And I absolutely do believe they've had their 83 weeks. NXT has got a billion things they can do (looks like they will be running a Charlotte Flair vs. Rhea Ripley program, for example). Where the fuck does AEW go next? Jericho vs. Cody II? Yayyyyyy. That's my fucking point there. They've pulled the trigger on all the fresh feuds so fast, because they have a limited roster of actual stars. They've also benefit off things like the brawls and the angles and the turns to the point where doing that in the future is going to have diminishing returns. They started off "hot" against NXT (not for wrestling), but it's going to cool down, because they can't keep doing Moxley and Jericho shenanigans forever. People keep talking about them getting hotter, and I'm just asking "How?" 



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Punk isn't even moving the needle on the FS1 show anymore. Dude is barely above statistical noise bump now. He did AEW a favor by not accepting their deal - he wasn't lowballed as he didn't accept a wwe offer either - he's getting paid much less to whine about wwe by Fox. Punk simply isn't motivated to wrestle and without a complete mindset buy in he'd just be a lockerroom cancer. My interest in Punk is when I thought he'd be interested in signing originally to give AEW a boost and to really stick it to Vince/HHH. That isn't where he's at.


Punk's not wrestling, cutting promos or doing angles on the talk show. 



optikk sucks said:


> Money isn't an issue, but the Khans know what they are doing. Throwing money at someone to barely move a needle is not how business is done.
> 
> They know what they are doing. I'm assuming here, but I can guess that you are not a billionaire businessman?


* You have no evidence they wouldn't move the needle. This is a ridiculous sentiment. 

* Tony Khan is not a billionaire businessman either. 

* They don't know what they're doing -- that's exactly the point of this thread!

* If you throw money at the stars so that people actually watch your television and want to monetize it other ways, then you will get the giant TV rights fees (which they missed out on) and you make several times your talent expenses back. This is the most simple principle in wrestling at the moment. Pay Orton, Punk, Brock, Cain, AJ and Nakamura $3 million each. Get $100 million back from the TV networks. You are up $82 million. 



imthegame19 said:


> Twitter following thing is stupid. You just called Lesnar bigger star. Yet Orton has 4 million more followers then Brock lol.
> 
> 
> As for Edge WWE paying him 3 million a year to wrestle 3 times a year and show up on tv 25 times. That amount of money for lack of actual wrestling isn't going to be a needle mover for AEW. It would be a different story if Edge was wrestling all the time like Jericho is for AEW. Edge basically has 2004, 2006-2007 Mick Foley deal. But for a crap load more money.
> 
> 
> If AEW could get Edge at deal like TNA got from Mick Foley in 2009. When he was on tv every week and wrestled like 10-15 times a year then it might be a needle mover. But again Foley going to TNA wasn't a needle mover for them....


You don't know how much Edge is going to wrestle, or how often he will appear. You also don't know the effect it will have. Also, not having guys appearing every week is actually a good thing. AEW fans just don't get how to make something special. 



ericwaskk said:


> Ok here's my whole thing why not sigh Orton? I think he could be a major star there, and you know I think it would move the needle more then just a little bit.
> 
> Feuds with Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Page, and Omega, I think all that would be great plus a TV 14 Randy Orton as well, it could be a huge move for AEW , the guy is a legend let's be honest here.


They did want to sign Orton. They tried and they failed. It's the only logical explanation and it fits Tony Khan's accounts of events, even if Dave denies it. And a large part of that would have been the shitty mid-card talent they have signed instead of decent workers Orton could actually do something with and won't make it look like he's working in a joke promotion. Same with Punk. 

People keep saying that he doesn't want to wrestle. How do you know that? He doesn't want to do anything meaningless. AEW is almost entirely meaningless because they've capped themselves at <1 million viewers and have silly acts that make the serious acts look like parodies themselves. Punk's always taken himself and what he does seriously. 

There's no evidence that Punk doesn't have any interest to wrestle. He just doesn't want to wrestle for AEW. 



optikk sucks said:


> Well yeah, I actually agree with you. As a fan, I would’ve liked to see Orton in AEW.
> 
> However, as a business owner, would signing Orton be cost effective? AEW are a new company, Khans have many other businesses. They are barely profitable. Can they actually afford Orton? Will he put them over 2 million consistently? If the answer is no, then he is not worth it.
> And if Khans know how to do business (which they do) they would have analysts on the case - people experienced in knowing the most cost efficient salary - ie the least amount of money they can give to bring in that rating and keep being profitable. Or maybe I am overthinking it.
> 
> but if they are basing their business routines on the attitude era (which they’ve admitted to), they would know that a high price contract is only a short term gain.


You are coming from the perspective that "Tony Khan is brilliant, therefore anything AEW does is brilliant..." This is almost literally what you're saying. You break the bank on the stars so you can get more revenue and more revenue streams established. Those ain't coming with Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. They just aren't.


----------



## the_flock

The Wood said:


> Pay Orton, Punk, Brock, Cain, AJ and Nakamura $3 million each. Get $100 million back from the TV networks. You are up $82 million.


Lesnar earns $12 million per year, Orton earns $4.5 million, AJ $3.5 million, Nakamura $400k.


----------



## the_flock

Cult03 said:


> He hasn't drawn on shows with 3 million viewers or whatever, but he would absolutely draw on a show with 900k viewers. There's literally no logical way you could possibly deny this


Exactly if they got $45 million TV rights for 900k viewing figures then an increase of 2-300k viewers is worth $10-15 million. They could easily have paid Edge the $3 million he asked for or Orton $5-6 million and they would have been quids in.


----------



## the_flock

Bosnian21 said:


> How many more top guys will even become available within the next year or two?
> 
> Anyone know what other stars are (relatively) soon to be free agents ir may want to return to wrestling?


Actual stars...

CM Punk -? 
Ryback -? 

RVD - Contract has already expired.

Matt Hardy - March
Luke Harper - March

Brock lesnar - May/June

Jeff Hardy - March, but time added on for injuries, so unknown.

Rey Mysterio - September

Ronda Rousey - April 2021
Daniel Bryan - September 2021
-------------------------
Midcard fodder -

Konnor - March
The Revival - April
Gran Metalik - June
Flamita - December

Sami Zayn - 2021
Ethan Page - February 2021
Rich Swann - May 2021


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't. I feel like he would've been returned if he wanted to.


What's he going to do after Fox don't renew his contract because he's not bringing any extra ratings in?


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> You are equating them to the AEW mid-card, which is just ridiculous. People _were_ talking about Austin being a big star. He was rubbing shoulders with the top workers in the world all the time, and was already someone you could put in matches that were designed to draw. You're trying to take on the myth that Austin was a nobody in order to justify signing anybody, because nobody can become somebody, but that's literally not the precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> He boosted up PPV which allowed him to pay Bret. There was tension because HBK was still on a $750k per year deal, and when you pop the bank for one guy you've got to do it for all guys. He also knew that WCW would not know how to use Bret Hart and he had no political allies there.
> 
> None of that has anything to do with the scenario AEW finds themselves in. Shad Khan has got more money than Vince McMahon did then. He could pay Bret his old WWF contract for over 300 years with the money he had tapped to buy a stadium. Stop trying to make it sound like the Khans can't afford to pay talent seven or even eight figures a year in order to get stars to appear on their television instead of a bunch of no-marks.
> 
> 
> 
> And I stand by all those comments. Not one of those -- one which you have _grievously_ used out of context and know it, liar -- is "AEW is going out of business."
> 
> * "I don't think they'll be dead in a year" is _exactly the opposite_ of saying that they will be dead in a year. My reference to the dream was in relation to massive TV rights fees. Turns out they got some, but not massive. Hmm. It's almost like what I said was true. We're at the start of 2020 and WWE, for as shit as they've been for so many years, is stealing the show with an amazing Rumble and what seems like it could be a hot build for WrestleMania. Things like that _will_ affect AEW's business. Come back to me at the end of 2020 and call me out on my prediction being wrong if it looks like they are in a position to start drawing over 2 million people and secure WWE-level rights fees _which has always been the goal._ We'll see for sure in four or five years whether they land a big deal or whether Tony Khan folds up shop or downgrades and says "It was nice and we did our best," which is absolute bullshit, by the way.
> 
> * And I absolutely do believe they've had their 83 weeks. NXT has got a billion things they can do (looks like they will be running a Charlotte Flair vs. Rhea Ripley program, for example). Where the fuck does AEW go next? Jericho vs. Cody II? Yayyyyyy. That's my fucking point there. They've pulled the trigger on all the fresh feuds so fast, because they have a limited roster of actual stars. They've also benefit off things like the brawls and the angles and the turns to the point where doing that in the future is going to have diminishing returns. They started off "hot" against NXT (not for wrestling), but it's going to cool down, because they can't keep doing Moxley and Jericho shenanigans forever. People keep talking about them getting hotter, and I'm just asking "How?"
> 
> 
> 
> Punk's not wrestling, cutting promos or doing angles on the talk show.
> 
> 
> 
> * You have no evidence they wouldn't move the needle. This is a ridiculous sentiment.
> 
> * Tony Khan is not a billionaire businessman either.
> 
> * They don't know what they're doing -- that's exactly the point of this thread!
> 
> * If you throw money at the stars so that people actually watch your television and want to monetize it other ways, then you will get the giant TV rights fees (which they missed out on) and you make several times your talent expenses back. This is the most simple principle in wrestling at the moment. Pay Orton, Punk, Brock, Cain, AJ and Nakamura $3 million each. Get $100 million back from the TV networks. You are up $82 million.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know how much Edge is going to wrestle, or how often he will appear. You also don't know the effect it will have. Also, not having guys appearing every week is actually a good thing. AEW fans just don't get how to make something special.
> 
> 
> 
> They did want to sign Orton. They tried and they failed. It's the only logical explanation and it fits Tony Khan's accounts of events, even if Dave denies it. And a large part of that would have been the shitty mid-card talent they have signed instead of decent workers Orton could actually do something with and won't make it look like he's working in a joke promotion. Same with Punk.
> 
> People keep saying that he doesn't want to wrestle. How do you know that? He doesn't want to do anything meaningless. AEW is almost entirely meaningless because they've capped themselves at <1 million viewers and have silly acts that make the serious acts look like parodies themselves. Punk's always taken himself and what he does seriously.
> 
> There's no evidence that Punk doesn't have any interest to wrestle. He just doesn't want to wrestle for AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> You are coming from the perspective that "Tony Khan is brilliant, therefore anything AEW does is brilliant..." This is almost literally what you're saying. You break the bank on the stars so you can get more revenue and more revenue streams established. Those ain't coming with Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. They just aren't.


Predicted aew would fall yet they're still here & so are you - no shame


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All I ask for, is that KHAAAAANNNN takes out the blank cheque book and outbids for Bryan Danielson in 2021


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> What's he going to do after Fox don't renew his contract because he's not bringing any extra ratings in?


Go back to living his life? He's sure as shit ain't wrestling.


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Go back to living his life? He's sure as shit ain't wrestling.


He will have to do something. He lived a few years off his WWE money, then his UFC money, then his Fox money. Who's going to hire him next? Everyone always comes back and I doubt he's going to be the exception


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> He will have to do something. He lived a few years off his WWE money, then his UFC money, then his Fox money. Who's going to hire him next? Everyone always comes back and I doubt he's going to be the exception


So you think he'll come back to wwe for money? I don't think so. He'll find another avenue, he's done it before.


----------



## The Wood

the_flock said:


> Lesnar earns $12 million per year, Orton earns $4.5 million, AJ $3.5 million, Nakamura $400k.


If those are the figures, you could offer double their WWE pay each and it would still only cost $40.8 million per year. I don't get where this "they don't want to pay them big money" thing comes from. 


Pippen94 said:


> Predicted aew would fall yet they're still here & so are you - no shame


What do you mean by "fail?" I predicted that NXT would start beating them in the ratings (which they did, although that has reversed temporarily), and that by WrestleMania the same thing would happen again. I've said that I think their chance to secure big TV rights money would expire, and they got a deal that makes them (allegedly) profitable, but they're not exactly rolling in it like I thought was possible.

Is this another attempt to try and assert that I said AEW would be out of business? Because I've never said that. As long as Shad Khan wants to keep financing it, they will stay alive. I have _always_ said that. The guy was about to spend $800 million on a stadium. If you took $500 million of that and put it in into a wrestling promotion, it would basically be perpetually sustainable, with enough money to start up three more AEWs. What about that implies I think they will go out of business? 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Go back to living his life? He's sure as shit ain't wrestling.


People act like they're so sure of that. He was doing his thing away from WWE, burned out for a while, but just because he's signed on to do an analyst gig for a little while, it doesn't mean there is absolutely no interest there. AEW didn't appeal to him and he's probably not going to immediately jump into the arms of Vince McMahon -- especially around WrestleMania time. But don't be surprised if something happens at or after Mania that dates your statement here.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Well I guess we'll see then won't we Woody?


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So you think he'll come back to wwe for money? I don't think so. He'll find another avenue, he's done it before.


I don't think much about him to be honest. I'm not the one ruling it out though


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well I guess we'll see then won't we Woody?


You're on.


----------



## kingfrass44

tducey said:


> I think AEW should concentrate on creating their own stars, not try to sign every wrestler that becomes available.


Difficult creating their own stars Without bringing stars To increase exposure


----------



## kingfrass44

Roxinius said:


> guys stop feeding the aew hating trolls


Not trolls You are just Hardcore Can't accept criticism


----------



## kingfrass44

K4L318 said:


> nearly 50
> 
> no one worries about Naomi
> 
> Kross aint a star
> 
> Marty can still work wit AEW in the future, more now since he locked for 5 in ROH.


 Tony Khan is offering him a contract Edge 
You can't bring excuses


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

kingfrass44 said:


> I can not creating their own stars Without bringing stars To increase exposure


how long will that exposure last? It’s temporary. Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega. All stars in their own right. AEW is on a mainstream outlet. WWE themselves give free exposure to AEW. Guys like Orton May bring a temporary bump. But that’s it. WWE have worked hard to make their stars lesser than the WWE brand itself.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Its funny, AEW has in a weird way achieved what WWE always wanted

the brand draws, the stars are almost secondary


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Exactly if they got $45 million TV rights for 900k viewing figures then an increase of 2-300k viewers is worth $10-15 million. They could easily have paid Edge the $3 million he asked for or Orton $5-6 million and they would have been quids in.



Tv done and money set though. Why would they pay Edge 3 million a year to wrestle 3 times and be in tv only half the year? That's not going to increase ratings every week. Orton not even increasing ratings 200-300 k. But let's say on the shows Edge/Orton were both on it did.


AEW not getting anymore tv money until 2024. So increasing 200-300 viewers on some weeks. Isn't going to make up what it would cost to pay these wrestlers increased ad revenue from what their making already. So why would AEW spend that kinda money on those guys? Doesn't make any sense at all. 


I dunno why people want AEW to make same mistakes TNA did. We saw them bring in Mick Foley, Booker T, Jeff Hardy, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Mr. Anderson, Bobby Lashley etc between 2007 to 2010. When they already had Angle, Sting, Jarrett and young stars in AJ/Joe.


Now there's nothing wrong with adding Orton/Edge. But would be great additions to AEW. Fans can't have it both ways though. You can't expect them to be successful profitable company. Then pay that type of money to wrestlers for minimal gain. They aren't making half billion a year on tv movie. So they can't throw crazy money around like WWE does. It just doesn't make sense to do that at this point. Especially too guys in their 40s when they aren't gonna get any potential increase in tv money for another 4 years.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

If AEW is going to splash cash to get big time free agents then I want them to be backstage contributors as well as wrestlers. Jericho very clearly wants AEW to succeed and wants to put new guys over. Just look to his promos about Hangman leading to their championship match. He would constantly mention how great a wrestler Hangman was and because of that he needed to be at his best. Putting the title up against Darby and Scorpio. Getting pinned by Sky in that tag match and going to the limit with Jungle Boy. If you aren't willing to elevate new talent, easy pass for me even if they are needle movers.

Orton doesn't give a shit and hasn't for years. If AEW dropped big money on him would he do the same as Jericho. Doubtful in my opinion. He would be there for the money and would probably be reluctant on letting the younger guys get as much offense as they do. The same goes for Punk. I feel like their egos would get in the way of putting AEW first instead of going into business for themselves.

Now, Daniel Bryan is someone they should open the checkbook for. I've never been the biggest Bryan fan but I feel like he would be more like Jericho than Orton. He would be there to help elevate the next generation of stars. I also think he would be just as big of a star/needle mover as Punk and Orton.

I see Edge like Bryan but AEW were never getting him. He has only wrestled in WWE. There is a lot of loyalty there. If he was coming back to wrestle it was only going to be WWE unless AEW doubled or tripled what WWE was going to pay and that wasn't going to happen. That would be a lot of money for a guy that's injury was bad enough that if he took a bump wrong he might die. It's too much of a risk.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I just wish they were more aggressive with the non mainstream guys. They should have had Killer Kross set up with Scarlett for months now. Brian Cage I believe is a done deal, great for them, Impact spoiled it so they are trying to act like he isn’t signed. Eli Drake was free. 

These are the types that they should have gone for and it appears only Cage is happening. But imagine Kross/Cage/Eli instead of Janella/Havoc/Spears. Huge difference in quality.


----------



## ceeder

TKO Wrestling said:


> You named the Revival and a bunch of teams that no one gives a crap about and arent very good. Best Friends level, comparing them to the Lucha Bros is ridiculous. WWE has one team, Revival, that would be on the level of the top teams in AEW.


Who are these superior teams?

Bucks and Private Party are the most phoney, choreographed teams in the business. They aren’t in a fight, they are running back and forth doing gymnastics. Nobody throws a punch, everybody is working together for the next spot. 

Lucha Bros. have potential but either refuse to adopt any type of in-ring psychology(no selling, spots don’t make sense) or they’re just probably the sloppiest team in the business when it comes to tag team wrestling; blind tags, both guys doing shit at the same time, it’s a mess.

Santana and Ortiz also have potential but need to be in a proper environment to grow. Whichever one is constantly clicking his finger gun at the camera, swearing at live crowds and cameras... he has a great look and can wrestle, but needs some serious grooming. The other one with the afro is a ridiculous seller that makes the whole thing look fake. 

Best Friends suck because of Chuck Taylor who looks like he should be harvesting corn in a fucking field and Cassidy who is just another joke character. Trent is nice but is weighed down by these two morons. 

Same goes for Jurassic Express. Potential with Luchasaurus and Jungle Jack is instantly ruined by having this little fucking idiot with them. All Marko Stunt does for the product is turn people away and tell them this is a big fake joke, watch grown men sell for this shit because it’s a big fake joke and we want you to know it’s a big fake joke. 

The Dark Order are the drizzling shits, they have go away heat. 

Who am I missing? Omega and Page aren’t an actual team and have the titles for their storyline I guess. Evans and Angelico are more fake gymnasts that make the whole product look like shit. Butcher and Blade are green as shit although Butcher has a nice look. 

SCU are the best workers in the division and they booked their reign to make them look like fucking geeks.


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> AEW not getting anymore tv money until 2024. So increasing 200-300 viewers on some weeks. Isn't going to make up what it would cost to pay these wrestlers increased ad revenue from what their making already. So why would AEW spend that kinda money on those guys? Doesn't make any sense at all


It's not just TV revenue though is it. Its ticket sales, merch sales, potential video game sales, more brand recognition, prestige. Etc. 

You mentioned TNA bringing in the likes of Flair and Hogan, but that was over 5 years after they started, in comparison you would be looking at 2024/5, not 2020 right now. AEW need bigger, more well known stars in order to grow.


----------



## the_flock

ceeder said:


> Who are these superior teams?


To think a few months ago they could have signed the Briscoes.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> It's not just TV revenue though is it. Its ticket sales, merch sales, potential video game sales, more brand recognition, prestige. Etc.
> 
> You mentioned TNA bringing in the likes of Flair and Hogan, but that was over 5 years after they started, in comparison you would be looking at 2024/5, not 2020 right now. AEW need bigger, more well known stars in order to grow.



Nope they need to make Moxley, Cody, Omega bigger stars. They need to make Adam Page and MJF stars. They need to develop Darby, Wardlow, Guevara and Jungle Boy and make them into something.


AEW adding Brian Cage or Killer Kross and making them stars. Also makes more sense then. Spending big money on guys who are 40 or 46.

TNA got on weekly prime time tv in 2006. So you can't really count early pre weekly tv days for them. For tv they brought in Sting and Kurt Angle full time to go with Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Christian, AJ, Joe etc and they continued add guys like Booker T, Foley etc.


What did that do for them? What they didnt do is focus on making Joe or AJ. Considering Joe was basically out of the title picture after 2008. While AJ would go years and years between title reigns. Again what you are suggesting has already been done and failed. Spending big money on past their prime stars(even if they have some good years left) is no way to GROW a wrestling company.


If the price is right. Sure you would take them for those few good years left. But it's not going to increase business enough to justify the money. If WWE isn't selling out shows. How is Orton going to do that for AEW? One or two guys don't increase business enough to justify the cost.


Tony Khan smart guy and has analytics on stuff like this. That is why he passed and isn't gonna make these mistakes. AEW is offering money what these guys are worth to them. If WWE offers them more they aren't gonna be stupid and outbid WWE for them. If anything Tony Khan is proving he's not the money mark wrestlers like Orton want him to be. Thank God for AEW!


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> Tony Khan smart guy and has analytics on stuff like this. That is why he passed and isn't gonna make these mistakes. AEW is offering money what these guys are worth to them. If WWE offers them more they aren't gonna be stupid and outbid WWE for them. If anything Tony Khan is proving he's not the money mark wrestlers like Orton want him to be. Thank God for AEW!


You don't need a team of analysists or play moneyball to work out how much much money you could make against the cost of a well known "superstar". 

Sounds like excuses for the fact that Tony Khan missed out on some huge stars and instead went with the Bucks ideas and booked their friends. They must have missed out on a dozen or more stars in the last 6 months. 

Did Vince say hang on I'm not signing a 49 year old who's arguably the biggest superstar of all time to face the current biggest superstar in the world because I want to push Maven instead. Of course not. That is literally the case here. 

Did Vince pass on bringing a 55 year old Sting to WWE, knowing he would make shed loads of money from action figures, dvds, gloves, masks, tees because he wanted to push Bo Dallas instead. Of course not. 

AEW literally missed out on Orton and Signed Wardlow instead, missed out on Edge and signed Braxton Sutter.


----------



## K4L318

the_flock said:


> You don't need a team of analysists or play moneyball to work out how much much money you could make against the cost of a well known "superstar".
> 
> Sounds like excuses for the fact that Tony Khan missed out on some huge stars and instead went with the Bucks ideas and booked their friends. They must have missed out on a dozen or more stars in the last 6 months.
> 
> Did Vince say hang on I'm not signing a 49 year old who's arguably the biggest superstar of all time to face the current biggest superstar in the world because I want to push Maven instead. Of course not. That is literally the case here.
> 
> Did Vince pass on bringing a 55 year old Sting to WWE, knowing he would make shed loads of money from action figures, dvds, gloves, masks, tees because he wanted to push Bo Dallas instead. Of course not.
> 
> AEW literally missed out on Orton and Signed Wardlow instead, missed out on Edge and signed Braxton Sutter.


Orton is injury prone and going into his late 40s wit back and leg issues, this would be dumb. Wardlow is young and athletic. Edge had neck surgery, da dude is jello. Nobody on dat list drives ratings to justify da money.


----------



## the_flock

K4L318 said:


> Orton is injury prone and going into his late 40s wit back and leg issues, this would be dumb. Wardlow is young and athletic. Edge had neck surgery, da dude is jello. Nobody on dat list drives ratings to justify da money.


Orton and Edge are headlining Wrestlemania. What is top-knot doing? Standing there pouting behind the Bucks friend.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

the_flock said:


> Orton and Edge are headlining Wrestlemania.


WHO CARES, only WWE fans, that is who. If Orton vs Edge was happening at DoN people would shit all over AEW for being a retirement home.

Neither of those guys have any long term effect on the product. AEW would be smart to sign big names but they have to be worth it. Brock Lesnar is up soon, throw $20 million at him, he is worth it. Otherwise focus on signing guys like Brian Cage and making them into the new era of stars.

Because there needs to be a new era, Mox/Rollins/Reigns/Bryan are about all that have been made since the Cena/Orton era. Hopefully MJF joins that list and many others. Wardlow & Cage should be HUGE stars someday. Hangman is really developing quite a following.


----------



## El Hammerstone

K4L318 said:


> Orton is injury prone and going into his late 40s wit back and leg issues, this would be dumb. Wardlow is young and athletic. *Edge had neck surgery, da dude is jello. Nobody on dat list drives ratings to justify da money*.


Yeah, it's not like wrestling fans worldwide exploded with glee upon his entry into the rumble or anything; it's not like his return has become the biggest hot topic in the industry right now; no, fans have been clearly been hung up on da neck surgery.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

El Hammerstone said:


> Yeah, it's not like wrestling fans worldwide exploded with glee upon his entry into the rumble or anything; it's not like his return has become the biggest hot topic in the industry right now; no, fans have been clearly been hung up on da neck surgery.


Yet his hour, which was advertised all night, tanked viewership.

Put The Rock in that same exact spot and that 3rd hour rating is up. Period. Austin. Hogan. Goldberg. Actual draws.

Edge is not a draw and never has been. He is just another good main eventer, a more talented/worse looking Lex Luger in many ways.


----------



## K4L318

the_flock said:


> Orton and Edge are headlining Wrestlemania. What is top-knot doing? Standing there pouting behind the Bucks friend.


homie they aint headlining Mania. Brock and Drew are. 
Mania always sells for da brand. Yall making Edge out to be Sting, Macho and other. He a part time player.


----------



## K4L318

El Hammerstone said:


> Yeah, it's not like wrestling fans worldwide exploded with glee upon his entry into the rumble or anything; it's not like his return has become the biggest hot topic in the industry right now; no, fans have been clearly been hung up on da neck surgery.


his ratings werent even like Drew's first hour.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

K4L318 said:


> Orton is injury prone and going into his late 40s wit back and leg issues, this would be dumb. Wardlow is young and athletic. Edge had neck surgery, da dude is jello. Nobody on dat list drives ratings to justify da money.


Randy Orton is 39 years old.
Wardlow is 33 or 34

There is a bigger age difference between Kenny Omega and Adam Cole



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I love Edge - the Rated R era was amazing

anybody that thinks they ‘missed’ something by not signing him for limited dates and 3m a year is smoking the best grass in the world

1. He will bring a limited ratings bump. More associated with his ‘nostalgia’ match-ups. Like Randy. Or dream match-ups like AJ

2. If he signed with AEW they would’ve been crucified by all the WWE / NXT stans for signing somebody not ‘medically cleared’ and ‘over the hill’ and ‘they’re like TNA’ - and you all know that’s true. Imagine if he got re-injured again in an AEW ring  

I’m glad he’s back. I’m glad its with WWE


----------



## the_flock

See I don't think they would be getting crucified. I think people would be like WTF I thought he was injured, he retired nearly a decade ago, stupid WWE doctors, holy shit how did AEW do that.

Also people saying his deal is only 25 Raw shows per year and 3 or 4 matches. For AEW that would be a Dynamite appearance every other week, AEW only do 52 shows per year anyway and all PPVs.


----------



## the_flock

K4L318 said:


> homie they aint headlining Mania. Brock and Drew are.


It's not like WWE haven't had a title match lower down the card. It happened frequently with Michaels, Hogan etc whenever they were on cards.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> See I don't think they would be getting crucified. I think people would be like WTF I thought he was injured, he retired nearly a decade ago, stupid WWE doctors, holy shit how did AEW do that.
> 
> Also people saying his deal is only 25 Raw shows per year and 3 or 4 matches. For AEW that would be a Dynamite appearance every other week, AEW only do 52 shows per year anyway and all PPVs.


crucified mate. Totally and utterly

even moreso if he just got any injury

this way is best for all


----------



## El Hammerstone

K4L318 said:


> his ratings werent even like Drew's first hour.


You seem to be underselling just how much of a fanbase Drew has, and just how happy people were to see him win the rumble; Drew's title push is something fans have been desperately clamoring for.

Edge is not a draw? I have news for you; you're not getting the Rock, Austin, Cena, or even Drew for that matter. Who in AEW outside of Jericho is going to draw that level of mainstream attention? (and no, as much as I like Jon Moxley, he won't.)

A company that showcases goofs like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella on a regular basis cannot afford to turn their nose up at a guy like Edge. It's not even about Edge's lasting appeal, it's about the initial eyes he can bring to the product where viewers will bear witness to what the rest of the product is about, and perhaps they'll take to guys like Darby Allin and MJF as a result. Edge may not be the Rock, but he is a very credible main event guy. If they were to bring Edge in and in a year's time have him put over Darby Allin on a PPV; do you have any idea how huge that would be for Allin?


----------



## K4L318

El Hammerstone said:


> You seem to be underselling just how much of a fanbase Drew has, and just how happy people were to see him win the rumble; Drew's title push is something fans have been desperately clamoring for.
> 
> Edge is not a draw? I have news for you; you're not getting the Rock, Austin, Cena, or even Drew for that matter. Who in AEW outside of Jericho is going to draw that level of mainstream attention? (and no, as much as I like Jon Moxley, he won't.)


he aint a draw bro, Im sorry I like da dude but outside his theme song he aint.


----------



## the_flock

I read that Edges AEW offer was for a part time wrestling role, agent and ambassador of AEW, he was also going to be involved in creative. He was close to signing until WWE caught wind of the offer and beat it. AEW didn't make another offer.


----------



## K4L318

the_flock said:


> I read that Edges AEW offer was for a part time wrestling role, agent and ambassador of AEW, he was also going to be involved in creative. He was close to signing until WWE caught wind of the offer and beat it. AEW didn't make another offer.


good, I dont get why ya peeps like these 2008's -12 rejects.


----------



## ericwaskk

The Wood said:


> You are equating them to the AEW mid-card, which is just ridiculous. People _were_ talking about Austin being a big star. He was rubbing shoulders with the top workers in the world all the time, and was already someone you could put in matches that were designed to draw. You're trying to take on the myth that Austin was a nobody in order to justify signing anybody, because nobody can become somebody, but that's literally not the precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> He boosted up PPV which allowed him to pay Bret. There was tension because HBK was still on a $750k per year deal, and when you pop the bank for one guy you've got to do it for all guys. He also knew that WCW would not know how to use Bret Hart and he had no political allies there.
> 
> None of that has anything to do with the scenario AEW finds themselves in. Shad Khan has got more money than Vince McMahon did then. He could pay Bret his old WWF contract for over 300 years with the money he had tapped to buy a stadium. Stop trying to make it sound like the Khans can't afford to pay talent seven or even eight figures a year in order to get stars to appear on their television instead of a bunch of no-marks.
> 
> 
> 
> And I stand by all those comments. Not one of those -- one which you have _grievously_ used out of context and know it, liar -- is "AEW is going out of business."
> 
> * "I don't think they'll be dead in a year" is _exactly the opposite_ of saying that they will be dead in a year. My reference to the dream was in relation to massive TV rights fees. Turns out they got some, but not massive. Hmm. It's almost like what I said was true. We're at the start of 2020 and WWE, for as shit as they've been for so many years, is stealing the show with an amazing Rumble and what seems like it could be a hot build for WrestleMania. Things like that _will_ affect AEW's business. Come back to me at the end of 2020 and call me out on my prediction being wrong if it looks like they are in a position to start drawing over 2 million people and secure WWE-level rights fees _which has always been the goal._ We'll see for sure in four or five years whether they land a big deal or whether Tony Khan folds up shop or downgrades and says "It was nice and we did our best," which is absolute bullshit, by the way.
> 
> * And I absolutely do believe they've had their 83 weeks. NXT has got a billion things they can do (looks like they will be running a Charlotte Flair vs. Rhea Ripley program, for example). Where the fuck does AEW go next? Jericho vs. Cody II? Yayyyyyy. That's my fucking point there. They've pulled the trigger on all the fresh feuds so fast, because they have a limited roster of actual stars. They've also benefit off things like the brawls and the angles and the turns to the point where doing that in the future is going to have diminishing returns. They started off "hot" against NXT (not for wrestling), but it's going to cool down, because they can't keep doing Moxley and Jericho shenanigans forever. People keep talking about them getting hotter, and I'm just asking "How?"
> 
> 
> 
> Punk's not wrestling, cutting promos or doing angles on the talk show.
> 
> 
> 
> * You have no evidence they wouldn't move the needle. This is a ridiculous sentiment.
> 
> * Tony Khan is not a billionaire businessman either.
> 
> * They don't know what they're doing -- that's exactly the point of this thread!
> 
> * If you throw money at the stars so that people actually watch your television and want to monetize it other ways, then you will get the giant TV rights fees (which they missed out on) and you make several times your talent expenses back. This is the most simple principle in wrestling at the moment. Pay Orton, Punk, Brock, Cain, AJ and Nakamura $3 million each. Get $100 million back from the TV networks. You are up $82 million.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know how much Edge is going to wrestle, or how often he will appear. You also don't know the effect it will have. Also, not having guys appearing every week is actually a good thing. AEW fans just don't get how to make something special.
> 
> 
> 
> They did want to sign Orton. They tried and they failed. It's the only logical explanation and it fits Tony Khan's accounts of events, even if Dave denies it. And a large part of that would have been the shitty mid-card talent they have signed instead of decent workers Orton could actually do something with and won't make it look like he's working in a joke promotion. Same with Punk.
> 
> People keep saying that he doesn't want to wrestle. How do you know that? He doesn't want to do anything meaningless. AEW is almost entirely meaningless because they've capped themselves at <1 million viewers and have silly acts that make the serious acts look like parodies themselves. Punk's always taken himself and what he does seriously.
> 
> There's no evidence that Punk doesn't have any interest to wrestle. He just doesn't want to wrestle for AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> You are coming from the perspective that "Tony Khan is brilliant, therefore anything AEW does is brilliant..." This is almost literally what you're saying. You break the bank on the stars so you can get more revenue and more revenue streams established. Those ain't coming with Joey Janela and Orange Cassidy. They just aren't.



About Orton, like I said I think Orton would have been a great sigh for AEW and you are right about the Khans wanting to sigh him.


----------



## ericwaskk

imthegame19 said:


> The only reason why they wouldn't add a guy like Orton. Is if the cost got too high. It doesn't make sense for AEW to outbid WWE. If Orton would wanna come to AEW. It can't be about making the most total dollars.


You are aware that AEW actually tried to sigh Orton? According to reports.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Orton would've been cool but it's more of a Macho Man to WCW signing rather than a Hogan or Flair. I think AEW need that big Hogan type signing to lead their brand but unfortunately for them the only guy who could do that (Cena) absolutely loves the WWE and is very well looked after.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Orton would've been cool but it's more of a Macho Man to WCW signing rather than a Hogan or Flair. I think AEW need that big Hogan type signing to lead their brand but unfortunately for them the only guy who could do that (Cena) absolutely loves the WWE and is very well looked after.


I agree with everything else except that I think CM Punk with a vendetta could have been the only other person than Cena that could do it. Like a chip on his shoulder where it burns him daily that they wouldn’t let him main event wrestlmania so he will do whatever it takes to make All Out bigger.

Unfortunately he doesn’t care.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> You are aware that AEW actually tried to sigh Orton? According to reports.


Yes at a certain cost. I never said he wouldn't be good addition to the company. Just only makes sense at a certain cost. Guys shouldn't be coming to AEW for big final pay day.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> You don't need a team of analysists or play moneyball to work out how much much money you could make against the cost of a well known "superstar".
> 
> Sounds like excuses for the fact that Tony Khan missed out on some huge stars and instead went with the Bucks ideas and booked their friends. They must have missed out on a dozen or more stars in the last 6 months.
> 
> Did Vince say hang on I'm not signing a 49 year old who's arguably the biggest superstar of all time to face the current biggest superstar in the world because I want to push Maven instead. Of course not. That is literally the case here.
> 
> Did Vince pass on bringing a 55 year old Sting to WWE, knowing he would make shed loads of money from action figures, dvds, gloves, masks, tees because he wanted to push Bo Dallas instead. Of course not.
> 
> AEW literally missed out on Orton and Signed Wardlow instead, missed out on Edge and signed Braxton Sutter.


Lol huge superstar? I'm sorry but that's all ridiculous. AEW doesn't have WWE money. So saying they should spend like them is idiotic. All the friends hired combined salaries wouldn't even equal to 10th of one year or Randy Orton. 


The funny thing is history tells you that you are wrong here. Only megastars really move the needle. Guys like Bret Hart, Kurt Angle or Orton aren't mega stars. Hart going to WCW or Angle going to TNA didn't move the needle. Either will Randy Orton to AEW. I guess you want AEW to go out of business.


----------



## imthegame19

El Hammerstone said:


> You seem to be underselling just how much of a fanbase Drew has, and just how happy people were to see him win the rumble; Drew's title push is something fans have been desperately clamoring for.
> 
> Edge is not a draw? I have news for you; you're not getting the Rock, Austin, Cena, or even Drew for that matter. Who in AEW outside of Jericho is going to draw that level of mainstream attention? (and no, as much as I like Jon Moxley, he won't.)
> 
> A company that showcases goofs like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella on a regular basis cannot afford to turn their nose up at a guy like Edge. It's not even about Edge's lasting appeal, it's about the initial eyes he can bring to the product where viewers will bear witness to what the rest of the product is about, and perhaps they'll take to guys like Darby Allin and MJF as a result. Edge may not be the Rock, but he is a very credible main event guy. If they were to bring Edge in and in a year's time have him put over Darby Allin on a PPV; do you have any idea how huge that would be for Allin?


Wait are you trying to say Drew McIntyre is bigger star or draw then Jon Moxley? I hope I read that wrong lol.


----------



## El Hammerstone

imthegame19 said:


> Wait are you trying to say Drew McIntyre is bigger star or draw then Jon Moxley? I hope I read that wrong lol.


Not necessarily no; I'm just saying that people acknowledge how much Drew McIntyre worked his ass off on the indy scene after his first release from WWE, and how much he deserved to win a match like this. Not saying McIntyre himself is a huge draw, but the possibility of him winning the rumble after what he's been through certainly was.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> I read that Edges AEW offer was for a part time wrestling role, agent and ambassador of AEW, he was also going to be involved in creative. He was close to signing until WWE caught wind of the offer and beat it. AEW didn't make another offer.


Probably because they have responsible owners. Who made their best offer to Edge and weren't going to get in a bidding war with WWE. Who makes over 500,000 million a year in tv money alone vs 45 million. Again they need to build their own stars. Not throw around crazy money for old wrestles. That's how you put a company out of business when you aren't making crazy tv money yet.


----------



## the_flock

imthegame19 said:


> Hart going to WCW or Angle going to TNA didn't move the needle. Either will Randy Orton to AEW. I guess you want AEW to go out of business.


TNA signed the 10th biggest draw in the world in Kurt Angle and he absolutely did move the needle, there's no denying that. 

The problem with WCW was they just wanted Hart so that WWE couldn't have him, they didn't know what to do with him and by the time he came a year after he was meant to, their roster was too stacked for him to fit in. 

Not really comparable situations. TNA needed Angle at that time, WCW didn't need Hart, AEW absolutely need the star power at this point.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> TNA signed the 10th biggest draw in the world in Kurt Angle and he absolutely did move the needle, there's no denying that.
> 
> The problem with WCW was they just wanted Hart so that WWE couldn't have him, they didn't know what to do with him and by the time he came a year after he was meant to, their roster was too stacked for him to fit in.
> 
> Not really comparable situations. TNA needed Angle at that time, WCW didn't need Hart, AEW absolutely need the star power at this point.


Ratings, attendance and buys showed there was no needle moved long term. Plus TNA wasn't paying Angle what you are trying to suggest they pay Orton lol.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> how long will that exposure last? It’s temporary. Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega. All stars in their own right. AEW is on a mainstream outlet. WWE themselves give free exposure to AEW. Guys like Orton May bring a temporary bump. But that’s it. WWE have worked hard to make their stars lesser than the WWE brand itself.


This was true until very recently. If you've been paying attention, then you'll see what they are trying to do with Drew McIntyre. The whispers in the wind suggest they're going to do the same with Rhea Ripley. They now have talent locked for 5+ years, can afford to pay wrestlers about as much as they would get in fucking Hollywood, and need to get their other business metrics up. The whole "WWE only cares about the brand" thing was cute when they wanted to get investors to put money into _the brand_, but it might look pretty antiquated soon. 

Just like when AEW said "tag teams _actually_ matter here!" then The Revival and New Day had the best match on a WWE PPV and SmackDown featured three good-to-great tag team matches. If you want to play the "we're contemporary" game, you've got to stay contemporary. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its funny, AEW has in a weird way achieved what WWE always wanted
> 
> the brand draws, the stars are almost secondary


AEW doesn't draw. 



imthegame19 said:


> Tv done and money set though. Why would they pay Edge 3 million a year to wrestle 3 times and be in tv only half the year? That's not going to increase ratings every week. Orton not even increasing ratings 200-300 k. But let's say on the shows Edge/Orton were both on it did.
> 
> 
> AEW not getting anymore tv money until 2024. So increasing 200-300 viewers on some weeks. Isn't going to make up what it would cost to pay these wrestlers increased ad revenue from what their making already. So why would AEW spend that kinda money on those guys? Doesn't make any sense at all.
> 
> 
> I dunno why people want AEW to make same mistakes TNA did. We saw them bring in Mick Foley, Booker T, Jeff Hardy, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Mr. Anderson, Bobby Lashley etc between 2007 to 2010. When they already had Angle, Sting, Jarrett and young stars in AJ/Joe.
> 
> 
> Now there's nothing wrong with adding Orton/Edge. But would be great additions to AEW. Fans can't have it both ways though. You can't expect them to be successful profitable company. Then pay that type of money to wrestlers for minimal gain. They aren't making half billion a year on tv movie. So they can't throw crazy money around like WWE does. It just doesn't make sense to do that at this point. Especially too guys in their 40s when they aren't gonna get any potential increase in tv money for another 4 years.


Argh! This is a cart before the horse argument. The TV money is set, yes, because AEW didn't get the stars. Holy shit, how can you see this is not an argument against them. 

Also, signing the current top stars in wrestling would not be the same mistake as TNA made. Bringing in Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Booker T and Scott Steiner in 2006 is not the same thing as signing Randy Orton, AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, CM Punk, Brock Lesnar and Edge. You _cannot_ sincerely believe that. Also, AEW is a touring arena show, whereas TNA was out of a small venue off Spike TV and Panda's money with Vince Russo heading creative. *This is not the same thing.*



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> If AEW is going to splash cash to get big time free agents then I want them to be backstage contributors as well as wrestlers. Jericho very clearly wants AEW to succeed and wants to put new guys over. Just look to his promos about Hangman leading to their championship match. He would constantly mention how great a wrestler Hangman was and because of that he needed to be at his best. Putting the title up against Darby and Scorpio. Getting pinned by Sky in that tag match and going to the limit with Jungle Boy. If you aren't willing to elevate new talent, easy pass for me even if they are needle movers.
> 
> Orton doesn't give a shit and hasn't for years. If AEW dropped big money on him would he do the same as Jericho. Doubtful in my opinion. He would be there for the money and would probably be reluctant on letting the younger guys get as much offense as they do. The same goes for Punk. I feel like their egos would get in the way of putting AEW first instead of going into business for themselves.
> 
> Now, Daniel Bryan is someone they should open the checkbook for. I've never been the biggest Bryan fan but I feel like he would be more like Jericho than Orton. He would be there to help elevate the next generation of stars. I also think he would be just as big of a star/needle mover as Punk and Orton.
> 
> I see Edge like Bryan but AEW were never getting him. He has only wrestled in WWE. There is a lot of loyalty there. If he was coming back to wrestle it was only going to be WWE unless AEW doubled or tripled what WWE was going to pay and that wasn't going to happen. That would be a lot of money for a guy that's injury was bad enough that if he took a bump wrong he might die. It's too much of a risk.


Edge worked for WCW. I think people are confusing "they've only worked for WWE" as "WWE is the only place that has been a logical place for people to work since 2001 unless they are coming up." If Christian didn't go to TNA, or Angle didn't go to TNA, people would say the same things about them. In fact, people were absolutely shocked to see someone of Angle's level go to TNA in 2006. 

Orton being "lazy" is one of those weird myths in wrestling. With his schedule, age, injuries, style and value to the company, he's not going to go out there and take piledrivers off the top every match. But if he's in a creatively stifling environment, that's _more_ of a reason to go somewhere where he can break the mould he feels trapped in. If he feels trapped in it. He just partook in one of the hottest angles WWE has done in a long time, so he might prefer doing that in front of 2.4 million people every week, about to head to the biggest wrestling show of the year in a prominent role than floss with Marko Stunt on a boat. 



ceeder said:


> Who are these superior teams?
> 
> Bucks and Private Party are the most phoney, choreographed teams in the business. They aren’t in a fight, they are running back and forth doing gymnastics. Nobody throws a punch, everybody is working together for the next spot.
> 
> Lucha Bros. have potential but either refuse to adopt any type of in-ring psychology(no selling, spots don’t make sense) or they’re just probably the sloppiest team in the business when it comes to tag team wrestling; blind tags, both guys doing shit at the same time, it’s a mess.
> 
> Santana and Ortiz also have potential but need to be in a proper environment to grow. Whichever one is constantly clicking his finger gun at the camera, swearing at live crowds and cameras... he has a great look and can wrestle, but needs some serious grooming. The other one with the afro is a ridiculous seller that makes the whole thing look fake.
> 
> Best Friends suck because of Chuck Taylor who looks like he should be harvesting corn in a fucking field and Cassidy who is just another joke character. Trent is nice but is weighed down by these two morons.
> 
> Same goes for Jurassic Express. Potential with Luchasaurus and Jungle Jack is instantly ruined by having this little fucking idiot with them. All Marko Stunt does for the product is turn people away and tell them this is a big fake joke, watch grown men sell for this shit because it’s a big fake joke and we want you to know it’s a big fake joke.
> 
> The Dark Order are the drizzling shits, they have go away heat.
> 
> Who am I missing? Omega and Page aren’t an actual team and have the titles for their storyline I guess. Evans and Angelico are more fake gymnasts that make the whole product look like shit. Butcher and Blade are green as shit although Butcher has a nice look.
> 
> SCU are the best workers in the division and they booked their reign to make them look like fucking geeks.


Great analysis. 

SmackDown alone has The Usos, Cesaro & Nakamura, The New Day, The Revival and Ziggler & Roode. Each of those teams is better than most of the AEW teams. I'd probably make a wager and go all. SCU would fit, and maybe there is another team I am forgetting, but that is just one show the company has. NXT has got Undisputed Era, Riddle & Dunne, DIY (on occasion), TimeSplitters (well, if they signed Shelley) and could easily put more together. Raw's got Street Profits, who have charisma, War Raiders (who would be pushed so hard in AEW), Owens & Joe, Rollins & Murphy and probably some others I am forgetting. 

This is NOT to say that "WWE is so fucking great!" They don't do anywhere near enough with their tag teams. But you want to talk about how good your tag division is, at least be better than just ONE of the WWE brands. 



imthegame19 said:


> Nope they need to make Moxley, Cody, Omega bigger stars. They need to make Adam Page and MJF stars. They need to develop Darby, Wardlow, Guevara and Jungle Boy and make them into something.
> 
> 
> AEW adding Brian Cage or Killer Kross and making them stars. Also makes more sense then. Spending big money on guys who are 40 or 46.
> 
> TNA got on weekly prime time tv in 2006. So you can't really count early pre weekly tv days for them. For tv they brought in Sting and Kurt Angle full time to go with Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Christian, AJ, Joe etc and they continued add guys like Booker T, Foley etc.
> 
> 
> What did that do for them? What they didnt do is focus on making Joe or AJ. Considering Joe was basically out of the title picture after 2008. While AJ would go years and years between title reigns. Again what you are suggesting has already been done and failed. Spending big money on past their prime stars(even if they have some good years left) is no way to GROW a wrestling company.
> 
> 
> If the price is right. Sure you would take them for those few good years left. But it's not going to increase business enough to justify the money. If WWE isn't selling out shows. How is Orton going to do that for AEW? One or two guys don't increase business enough to justify the cost.
> 
> 
> Tony Khan smart guy and has analytics on stuff like this. That is why he passed and isn't gonna make these mistakes. AEW is offering money what these guys are worth to them. If WWE offers them more they aren't gonna be stupid and outbid WWE for them. If anything Tony Khan is proving he's not the money mark wrestlers like Orton want him to be. Thank God for AEW!


How are they going to turn them into starts, pal? By having them beat Joey Janela? You need stars to get the eyeballs to make them stars. And you go on to explain everything TNA did wrong and use it as evidence to explain why AEW shouldn't try and do the right thing. Imagine if TNA _did_ have good creative, and _did_ use the top talent to try and make Joe, AJ, Daniels, LAX and the like. Now imagine that with a billionaire's backing. Holy shit. You're starting to get it. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Yet his hour, which was advertised all night, tanked viewership.
> 
> Put The Rock in that same exact spot and that 3rd hour rating is up. Period. Austin. Hogan. Goldberg. Actual draws.
> 
> Edge is not a draw and never has been. He is just another good main eventer, a more talented/worse looking Lex Luger in many ways.


Edge actually boosted ratings for his first (albeit short) stint as WWE Champion. This is just a bald-faced lie. 

He's not a household name, but fuck's sake, at least look at the guy's history before you make ridiculous claims. Lex Luger is another guy that actually did do good at certain points. 

Why sign Jericho and Moxley by this logic? They're "not draws and have never been." Oh wait, it turns out if you put a big star in a certain environment they become valuable. 



imthegame19 said:


> Wait are you trying to say Drew McIntyre is bigger star or draw then Jon Moxley? I hope I read that wrong lol.


Mark this down: He will be.



imthegame19 said:


> Probably because they have responsible owners. Who made their best offer to Edge and weren't going to get in a bidding war with WWE. Who makes over 500,000 million a year in tv money alone vs 45 million. Again they need to build their own stars. Not throw around crazy money for old wrestles. That's how you put a company out of business when you aren't making crazy tv money yet.


*They're only making $45 million a year because they didn't get the top talent.*

You cannot seriously use AEW's current position to justify why they are in that position. 



the_flock said:


> TNA signed the 10th biggest draw in the world in Kurt Angle and he absolutely did move the needle, there's no denying that.
> 
> The problem with WCW was they just wanted Hart so that WWE couldn't have him, they didn't know what to do with him and by the time he came a year after he was meant to, their roster was too stacked for him to fit in.
> 
> Not really comparable situations. TNA needed Angle at that time, WCW didn't need Hart, AEW absolutely need the star power at this point.


This is what AEW fanboys need to accept. They are different scenarios. It's a different environment. People are hungry for an alternative, and more hungry than they have ever been. Top stars can be lured away, because things started to get mighty 1984 in WWE. It's also to do with the scope and size of these promotions, and the potential creative differences in them. 

TNA and AEW are only going to be synonymous in how they end up, not how they started. 



imthegame19 said:


> Ratings, attendance and buys showed there was no needle moved long term. Plus TNA wasn't paying Angle what you are trying to suggest they pay Orton lol.


*AEW have access to several hundreds of millions of dollars more than TNA did, and also exists in a landscape where TV is much more desperate to pay hundreds of millions of dollars.*


----------



## Boldgerg

Why is it that any time I seem to open a fucking thread in the AEW forum it's mostly The Wood rambling on and on and on and on? It's insufferable.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Boldgerg said:


> Why is it that any time I seem to open a fucking thread in the AEW forum it's mostly The Wood rambling on and on and on and on? It's insufferable.


You're more than welcome to dispute the points he made; all I've heard since I've signed up here is about the amount of posts he's made, the "essays" contained within, or gloating about how you've put him on ignore, but I could swear 98% of you don't actually read them.

I'm going to make one final point here when it comes to recruiting new talent to AEW. Whether it's Edge, Orton, CM Punk, Killer Kross, Jeff Cobb, or whoever from wherever; the one question that needs to be asked is "are said talent(s) a clear step above our weakest links in terms of ability?", if the answer is yes, then these talents are valuable to AEW. Right now, there is a major disparity between the top dogs in AEW and the guys in the midcard; AEW needs those credible guys (whether it's name value or simply talent) to help serve as that bridge between the midcard and the mainevent, otherwise you're forced to hotshot Kip Sabian into a feud with Cody or a goof like Janella into a feud with MJF or Pac, and these represent severe mismatches on paper in which the higher ranked guys have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Someone like Jeff Cobb isn't that impressive? He may not be the greatest thing out there, but he's a clear upgrade to Stunt, Kiss, and Janella, so that gives him some value, and as long as AEW is employing dorks like the three mentioned, then they are in no position to turn their nose up at guys who can offer something.


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its funny, AEW has in a weird way achieved what WWE always wanted
> 
> the brand draws, the stars are almost secondary


Draws what? The brand had to draw in the beginning because nobody knew who was going to show up. Just because some of you will watch no matter what wrestlers they put on tv doesn't mean much though


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> Lol huge superstar? I'm sorry but that's all ridiculous. AEW doesn't have WWE money. So saying they should spend like them is idiotic. All the friends hired combined salaries wouldn't even equal to 10th of one year or Randy Orton.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is history tells you that you are wrong here. Only megastars really move the needle. Guys like Bret Hart, Kurt Angle or Orton aren't mega stars. Hart going to WCW or Angle going to TNA didn't move the needle. Either will Randy Orton to AEW. I guess you want AEW to go out of business.


Historically, if the needle was pointed at 900k almost anyone moving from the WWE main roster would move it. What do you think is going to get AEW over a million? Or even higher?


----------



## The Masked Avenger

the_flock said:


> TNA signed the 10th biggest draw in the world in Kurt Angle and he absolutely did move the needle, there's no denying that.
> 
> The problem with WCW was they just wanted Hart so that WWE couldn't have him, they didn't know what to do with him and by the time he came a year after he was meant to, their roster was too stacked for him to fit in.
> 
> Not really comparable situations. TNA needed Angle at that time, WCW didn't need Hart, AEW absolutely need the star power at this point.


What you and everyone using Angle as an example forget the reason why Angle left WWE. He, himself, has admitted that Vince didn't want him medically cleared to compete because of his neck injuries. He wanted to work and TNA wasn't going to stop him so he went there. Money wasn't the motive for him, competing was.


----------



## Cult03

imthegame19 said:


> Probably because they have responsible owners. Who made their best offer to Edge and weren't going to get in a bidding war with WWE. Who makes over 500,000 million a year in tv money alone vs 45 million. Again they need to build their own stars. Not throw around crazy money for old wrestles. That's how you put a company out of business when you aren't making crazy tv money yet.


Responsible owners, pays Joey Janella and Marko Stunt actual money. You can only pick one


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> Probably because they have responsible owners. Who made their best offer to Edge and weren't going to get in a bidding war with WWE. Who makes over 500,000 million a year in tv money alone vs 45 million. Again they need to build their own stars. Not throw around crazy money for old wrestles. That's how you put a company out of business when you aren't making crazy tv money yet.


How do you make stars when you only have two established stars that people in America are familiar with? Someone such as MJF feuding with Edge for a few months with a hot storyline and then pinning him on PPV means a lot more than MJF having that same story line with Kenny Omega and beating him on PPV.

Not saying AEW should've tossed massive amounts of money at Edge or gotten into a bidding war over him because quite frankly I don't think he's worth it but to suggest that AEW doesn't need established older stars is ridiculous. Without Jericho they'd be really struggling and he's an old wrestler.


----------



## imthegame19

Chip Chipperson said:


> How do you make stars when you only have two established stars that people in America are familiar with? Someone such as MJF feuding with Edge for a few months with a hot storyline and then pinning him on PPV means a lot more than MJF having that same story line with Kenny Omega and beating him on PPV.
> 
> Not saying AEW should've tossed massive amounts of money at Edge or gotten into a bidding war over him because quite frankly I don't think he's worth it but to suggest that AEW doesn't need established older stars is ridiculous. Without Jericho they'd be really struggling and he's an old wrestler.


I'm not saying they couldn't use Orton, Edge or older wrestler. But paying more then 3 million a year for Edge to wrestle three times a year. Or paying Orton more then 6 million a year to wrestle 20-25 matches a year or whatever. Just isn't worth the cost for them. That is why AEW had interest in both(they talk to CM Punk too) They made their offer and that was it. They weren't gonna budge or overpay for them.


You can bring in a guy like Matt Hardy for a lot cheaper to feud with MJF for example. Dustin Rhodes is already in the company too. You aren't spending 3 million a year on Edge for three matches a year for him to lose to MJF either. So it's not that I'm saying they shouldn't try to add these guys. But they don't move the needle a enough to pay what they would cost to get them from WWE.


----------



## ericwaskk

imthegame19 said:


> Yes at a certain cost. I never said he wouldn't be good addition to the company. Just only makes sense at a certain cost. Guys shouldn't be coming to AEW for big final pay day.



Like I said c'mon now I think you are just being silly and or a troll, you can't tell me that if AEW sighed Randy Orton that viewership wouldn't go up.


----------



## midgetlover69

Aew definitely needs talent and star power even if they are not a draw. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> Like I said c'mon now I think you are just being silly and or a troll, you can't tell me that if AEW sighed Randy Orton that viewership wouldn't go up.


It would probably be a slight(and I mean slight) increase for a few weeks and them back to norm. It has nothing to do with what you think I'm trying to be or whatever. Reality is unless a guy is legit megastar. It has very little impact on the ratings.


Again when Kurt Angle appeared on Impact. The ratings didn't increase. When Booker T joined the ratings didn't increase much. When Mick Foley joined the ratings didn't increase much.


Basically before Angle joined. TNA was doing 0.8 to 1.0 rating. It took a good 5-6 months before they grew to 1-1.2. Even though they added Booker T, Mick Foley and every big name that became available. So facts are you are just overrating wrestlers as draws in this day and age. If Rock joined AEW that would move the needle. Even John Cena would as well. Guys like Orton who are only known to wrestling fans won't make a big difference. That would justify paying them huge money.


----------



## ericwaskk

imthegame19 said:


> It would probably be a slight(and I mean slight) increase for a few weeks and them back to norm. It has nothing to do with what you think I'm trying to be or whatever. Reality is unless a guy is legit megastar. It has very little impact on the ratings.
> 
> 
> Again when Kurt Angle appeared on Impact. The ratings didn't increase. When Booker T joined the ratings didn't increase much. When Mick Foley joined the ratings didn't increase much.
> 
> 
> Basically before Angle joined. TNA was doing 0.8 to 1.0 rating. It took a good 5-6 months before they grew to 1-1.2. Even though they added Booker T, Mick Foley and every big name that became available. So facts are you are just overrating wrestlers as draws in this day and age. If Rock joined AEW that would move the needle. Even John Cena would as well. Guys like Orton who are only known to wrestling fans won't make a big difference. That would justify paying them huge money.



Well I guess we agree then, I never said there would be a major spike in viewership although you can't tell me that viewership wouldn't increase.


----------



## imthegame19

midgetlover69 said:


> Aew definitely needs talent and star power even if they are not a draw. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot


Nobody is saying they don't. Heck WWE needs more star power on their shows too. The question isn't do they need these guys or not. The question is should they be desperate and outbid WWE for one of these guys. 


That's a big hell no, because they aren't going to make the company a ton more of money. That would justify paying them outrageous amounts of money. We already seen two companies make those mistakes trying to compete with WWE. It put one company out of business and nearly the other company. 


AEW needs to focus on creating their own stars. Yes they should try to add all the big names they can. Like they have so far. But they should have a cut off point and pass on a guy. If the cost doesnt make any sense at a certain point.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> Well I guess we agree then, I never said there would be a major spike in viewership although you can't tell me that viewership wouldn't increase.


It would increase some just not enough for it to be worth the cost. I think Edge would be awesome in AEW. When I heard he considered coming. I was like oh man that would have been a good move. With all the hype of him returning to the ring. But when I saw contract details. 


Along with knowing his loyalty to WWE. Well it doesn't bother me he didn't join. AEW would have thrown crazy money at him. Maybe 2-3 million more a year for him to jump ship. Same goes with Orton. Realistically for him to leave WWE. Well AEW would have to offer well beyond what WWE did. That just makes no sense for a new company that's only getting 45 million a year from tv.


I know it's hard but fans need to be patient. Give AEW time making their existing stars bigger stars. Let them develop their younger talent. Let add guys from other companies and repackage them. They are gonna be around for at least next four years if they make smart business decisions. There's nothing wrong with adding two or three of Brian Cage, Lance Archer or Matt Hardy or Killer Kross or Luke Harper and Revival. Adding depth and building up your talent puts them in strong position.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Star power is happening every show

just listen to the Darby pops / chants and you guys’ll see it too.

they’re building their own stars at a fraction of the cost


----------



## El Hammerstone

Fear not everyone,



Spoiler: AEW Dark



Colin Motherfucking Delaney had his AEW debut on Dark


----------



## famicommander

Right now there are several promotions owned by billionaires operating in the US:
WWE
AEW
ROH
Impact

Not to mention NJPW, which is owned by a Japanese company worth at least 600 million USD. Even CMLL is owned by one of the wealthiest landowning families in Mexico.

Then you have an upstart like MLW, plus music industry stars like Billy Corgan (NWA) and Master P (HOG) buying up indies. And the other major Mexican and Japanese promotions have resources too.

Point being, times are different. The two biggest are obviously WWE and AEW, but the next 5-8 biggest companies in the world after that are well funded enough that they can be expected to snag some stars here and there.

This isn't like WCW vs WWF when it was one or the other. It's no reason to panic if AEW doesn't get every single big star that WWE doesn't, or vice versa. AEW is clearly in a very good position right now, and it's a good thing that ROH and Impact are starting to recover too.


----------



## ericwaskk

imthegame19 said:


> It would increase some just not enough for it to be worth the cost. I think Edge would be awesome in AEW. When I heard he considered coming. I was like oh man that would have been a good move. With all the hype of him returning to the ring. But when I saw contract details.
> 
> 
> Along with knowing his loyalty to WWE. Well it doesn't bother me he didn't join. AEW would have thrown crazy money at him. Maybe 2-3 million more a year for him to jump ship. Same goes with Orton. Realistically for him to leave WWE. Well AEW would have to offer well beyond what WWE did. That just makes no sense for a new company that's only getting 45 million a year from tv.
> 
> 
> I know it's hard but fans need to be patient. Give AEW time making their existing stars bigger stars. Let them develop their younger talent. Let add guys from other companies and repackage them. They are gonna be around for at least next four years if they make smart business decisions. There's nothing wrong with adding two or three of Brian Cage, Lance Archer or Matt Hardy or Killer Kross or Luke Harper and Revival. Adding depth and building up your talent puts them in strong position.




Look I completely agree that AEW should build new and their own stars and I can't speak much for the financial aspect, although c'mon you can't tell me people wouldn't want to see Orton go to AEW and that viewership wouldn't increase.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> How do you make stars when you only have two established stars that people in America are familiar with? Someone such as MJF feuding with Edge for a few months with a hot storyline and then pinning him on PPV means a lot more than MJF having that same story line with Kenny Omega and beating him on PPV.


Exactly, without Savage, DDP doesn't become a huge star, without Hogan, neither Sting or Goldberg become huge stars, without Bret, Austin doesn't become a huge star, etc etc


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> It would probably be a slight(and I mean slight) increase for a few weeks and them back to norm. It has nothing to do with what you think I'm trying to be or whatever. Reality is unless a guy is legit megastar. It has very little impact on the ratings.
> 
> 
> Again when Kurt Angle appeared on Impact. The ratings didn't increase. When Booker T joined the ratings didn't increase much. When Mick Foley joined the ratings didn't increase much.
> 
> 
> Basically before Angle joined. TNA was doing 0.8 to 1.0 rating. It took a good 5-6 months before they grew to 1-1.2. Even though they added Booker T, Mick Foley and every big name that became available. So facts are you are just overrating wrestlers as draws in this day and age. If Rock joined AEW that would move the needle. Even John Cena would as well. Guys like Orton who are only known to wrestling fans won't make a big difference. That would justify paying them huge money.


Vince Russo joined creative the same week they signed Angle. It was a chance for growth and they blew it. It was also a very different promotion on a very different scale. You can't use that as an accurate analogy. And you can't say "probably" based on anything other than speculation. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Star power is happening every show
> 
> just listen to the Darby pops / chants and you guys’ll see it too.
> 
> they’re building their own stars at a fraction of the cost


He's getting over to the same audience. They're not growing that audience or getting him over to a larger amount of people.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> If those are the figures, you could offer double their WWE pay each and it would still only cost $40.8 million per year. I don't get where this "they don't want to pay them big money" thing comes from.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "fail?" I predicted that NXT would start beating them in the ratings (which they did, although that has reversed temporarily), and that by WrestleMania the same thing would happen again. I've said that I think their chance to secure big TV rights money would expire, and they got a deal that makes them (allegedly) profitable, but they're not exactly rolling in it like I thought was possible.
> 
> Is this another attempt to try and assert that I said AEW would be out of business? Because I've never said that. As long as Shad Khan wants to keep financing it, they will stay alive. I have _always_ said that. The guy was about to spend $800 million on a stadium. If you took $500 million of that and put it in into a wrestling promotion, it would basically be perpetually sustainable, with enough money to start up three more AEWs. What about that implies I think they will go out of business?
> 
> 
> 
> People act like they're so sure of that. He was doing his thing away from WWE, burned out for a while, but just because he's signed on to do an analyst gig for a little while, it doesn't mean there is absolutely no interest there. AEW didn't appeal to him and he's probably not going to immediately jump into the arms of Vince McMahon -- especially around WrestleMania time. But don't be surprised if something happens at or after Mania that dates your statement here.


I just don’t see the point in harping over the same thing over and over and over, man. I don’t think the Khan’s are cheap. I don’t think they are idiots.

I’d guarantee if Tony had his father’s full support in “the silly rasslin’ show”, then he would have thrown massive money everywhere and been the true money mark.

I could be wrong, but I am of the belief, and I have said this a few times, that his father threw him some play money and said, “Here. Knock yourself out for a weekend” fully expecting “a silly rasslin’ show” business venture to fall on its face.

With this small win, that maybe grows into a 1.5m weekly audience, Daddy Warbucks will be more willing to spend in the future...if Tony believes more money is needed.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> *He's getting over to the same audience*. They're not growing that audience or getting him over to a larger amount of people.


they tour


----------



## The Wood

The whole purpose behind this project is to get the big money TV deals. That's the game. WWE is in a weak spot, given them being stretched between five hours (now seven) of content that is largely dissatisfying its fan-base and falling metrics. 

The goal is to provide a wrestling product that attracts wayward fans and creates the image of a hot prospect company that can use WWE's vulnerability and waning popularity to present itself as a viable alternative. 

JR and Chris Jericho have both been on the record as saying, and this is prior to the formation of AEW, is that all you need is the money to compete with Vince. It is no coincidence they are involved in AEW and were the first rumored parties to get into bed with Tony Khan.

If you do not have the play money to start up this venture and secure the talent needed to create the perception that you are potentially the new big dog in town, _you don't do this._ It doesn't come later. You don't get $500 million to do this when you've already embedded yourself in the minds of fans as a giant indy with Jericho, Moxley, JR and a WCW production style. 

You sign the stars you can before the TV deal is forged (Jericho and JR) with the promise of more coming, because you have the capital to pay them more than what Vince is offering plus a reduced schedule, benefits and creative freedom. You use that to inspire confidence from a TV network to put you on the air for either big money or a little bit for a limited schedule so you can prove to be a juggernaut in the ratings to secure nine figures before long to justify spending the money on those giant names. 

You also use those names to secure merchandising agreements with toy companies, video game companies and other potential partners to establish new revenue streams and make the product far more visible to people outside the online community obsessed with wrestling that were going to check it out anyway.

You don't do a grassroots indy fed that you hope does well enough to secure enough money in hopes that a top star and Vince have a falling out and they are just antsy enough to sign up with your rinky-dink league to try and make a dent years down the line.

This is what made AEW appealing from the start. They could pay to play. So far, they've got arena shows, Jericho, Moxley and JR, which is basically where they started. We didn't need a bigger TNA. We wanted something that could potentially kick Vince's ass either from the start or at least put up a fight. AEW is no threat to Raw, SmackDown and it may not be to NXT for very long once they work out ways to subtly introduce viewers from Raw and SmackDown to it over time. They've got that possibility for growth. At this point, AEW really doesn't.


----------



## The Wood

You don't launch a TV show that is going to be fuelled by stars with a bunch of unknown actors with the promise of Chris Hemsworth joining in season three. If what is going to get you over the line is the promise of Chris Hemsworth, then you get Chris Hemsworth to shop the show starring Chris Hemsworth. This is really simple stuff. 

And, at the very least, you go for an Emmy so you've got a show that you can entice Chris Hemsworth with. Right now, all the stars that could help AEW are choosing to work on the other shows. Every. Single. One. 

And the line "They didn't want Chris Hemsworth" doesn't work. Of course they want Chris Hemsworth in their TV show. They just couldn't get Chris Hemsworth.


----------



## bdon

AEW has no chance for growth.

Fuck off with the ignorance. Fucking IMPACT! could grow. You don’t know what the future holds.

I may agree with you on a lot of things in principle, but you just lost me with that one. I won’t be reading or responding with you further.

I sure hope he takes you back soon, girl! Mmhmmm


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> AEW has no chance for growth.
> 
> Fuck off with the ignorance. Fucking IMPACT! could grow. You don’t know what the future holds.
> 
> I may agree with you on a lot of things in principle, but you just lost me with that one. I won’t be reading or responding with you further.
> 
> I sure hope he takes you back soon, girl! Mmhmmm


TNA is not growing either. I'm sorry, but you don't bet money on the sun not coming up tomorrow. It's almost definitely going to be there and if it's not, why bet the money? I don't know what the future holds, but I can make reasonable guesses based on the evidence in front of me.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> Look I completely agree that AEW should build new and their own stars and I can't speak much for the financial aspect, although c'mon you can't tell me people wouldn't want to see Orton go to AEW and that viewership wouldn't increase.


Like I said it would but not by much. Maybe first show buzz to put them over million. Then it will fall back to normal. Again this wouldn't have been first time a star as joined a prime time wrestling show. There's history of results that tell you it's usually minimal impact on tv rating.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Exactly, without Savage, DDP doesn't become a huge star, without Hogan, neither Sting or Goldberg become huge stars, without Bret, Austin doesn't become a huge star, etc etc


That's what Jericho for and what he will probably be done once he drops the title. Cody currently doing that with MJF. Also that was much different time and in front of bigger audience. Also guys like Hogan/Savage were megastars. You don't have those type of guys around today. 


While Stone Cold gimmick got him over. He could have done the Mania Bret Hart spot with Sid and got just as over. Much smaller audience watches wrestling today. That is why the stars in WWE today wouldn't move the needle if they jump ship. Because WWE decided to make the brand the star instead of individuals. So you need to realize times changed.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Star power is happening every show
> 
> just listen to the Darby pops / chants and you guys’ll see it too.
> 
> they’re building their own stars at a fraction of the cost


Hard to argue after last nights show. Darby, MJF, And Hangman are headed to star status very quickly.


----------



## captainzombie

MVP just wrestled his last match in WWE on Monday night, while he is 46, I think AEW can use a veteran like him even if its on a year deal. He is in even better shape now than he was in Impact a few years ago, and is really good on the mic.


----------



## ericwaskk

imthegame19 said:


> Like I said it would but not by much. Maybe first show buzz to put them over million. Then it will fall back to normal. Again this wouldn't have been first time a star as joined a prime time wrestling show. There's history of results that tell you it's usually minimal impact on tv rating.



Look I completely agree with wrestling especially AEW having a niche audience although c'mon Randy Orton is has been a staple in WWE programming for almost two decades and to this day is still a draw, there are plenty of WWE viewers out there I believe who would start watching AEW if Orton decided to join.


----------



## EmbassyForever

captainzombie said:


> MVP just wrestled his last match in WWE on Monday night, while he is 46, I think AEW can use a veteran like him even if its on a year deal. He is in even better shape now than he was in Impact a few years ago, and is really good on the mic.


Why?


----------



## ericwaskk

EmbassyForever said:


> Why?



That's what I'm saying why all of sudden does AEW need to sigh all these ex WWE people? Especially people who ever really had much of an impact in WWE , honestly I say AEW should pass on MVP and Luke Harper, why do they need to sigh all these WWE reject tribute acts, why not just try and build their own product and make their own stars. 

Now if someone like Orton or the Miz wanted to come over then I might change my tune although does sighing MVP or Luke Harper even Matt Hardy ( now Jeff Hardy is a completely different story for me) really excite anyone?


----------



## The Wood

captainzombie said:


> MVP just wrestled his last match in WWE on Monday night, while he is 46, I think AEW can use a veteran like him even if its on a year deal. He is in even better shape now than he was in Impact a few years ago, and is really good on the mic.


Not a knock on MVP, but if they managed to miss the boat on Orton, Styles, Nakamura, The Usos, CM Punk, Cain Velasquez, Edge, Mercedes Martinez and everyone else...just to sign MVP? That would be a very typical "LolAEW" moment. 



ericwaskk said:


> Look I completely agree with wrestling especially AEW having a niche audience although c'mon Randy Orton is has been a staple in WWE programming for almost two decades and to this day is still a draw, there are plenty of WWE viewers out there I believe who would start watching AEW if Orton decided to join.


Especially given he would be a new environment. People don't appreciate how special that is. In the same fish tank, you get used to seeing even the big fish. It's rare for someone to draw having stayed in one place for 17 years. But when that big fish gets moved to a different environment, especially if it's a smaller tank, they are going to become the dominant species. 

Orton would a) be refreshed, b) feel different, c) get a new presentation, and d) be in front of rabid crowds that would appreciate having him. All those things make for a very different experience to Randy Orton coming out for another match with AJ Styles on Raw, no matter how good that match is. 

And Orton just being involved in what might turn out to be a legitimate money angle on Raw just goes to highlight that the guy's still got it. It's looking like they'll get Matt Hardy pulling voices. 



ericwaskk said:


> That's what I'm saying why all of sudden does AEW need to sigh all these ex WWE people? Especially people who ever really had much of an impact in WWE , honestly I say AEW should pass on MVP and Luke Harper, why do they need to sigh all these WWE reject tribute acts, why not just try and build their own product and make their own stars.
> 
> Now if someone like Orton or the Miz wanted to come over then I might change my tune although does sighing MVP or Luke Harper even Matt Hardy ( now Jeff Hardy is a completely different story for me) really excite anyone?


Hey now, ease up on Luke Harper, lol. That guy's a heck of a talent. But you are right, in principle. I'll even swallow my pride on Harper, and as good as he is in the ring, didn't get to a star level in WWE. He's more like Christian Cage coming over to TNA than any sort of big star jumping over to WCW.

And all of that is closer to TNA taking the WWE scraps, as people whinge about, than actually acquiring the big talent that Vince does want to retain and is planning to use in massive programs.


----------



## Lethal Evans

I think after the big storylines finish up in the summer and they hit their 1 year mark, I think that's when you'll see the big stars looking and thinking they're for real.


----------



## The Wood

Lethal Evans said:


> I think after the big storylines finish up in the summer and they hit their 1 year mark, I think that's when you'll see the big stars looking and thinking they're for real.


They're all under five-year contracts.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Could anyone tell me about Mance Warner? I'm reading rumors about AEW being very interested in him, and that he was even backstage at a recent Dynamite show.


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> Could anyone tell me about Mance Warner? I'm reading rumors about AEW being very interested in him, and that he was even backstage at a recent Dynamite show.


They've worked out some deals with MLW talent before, which makes it weirder they didn't go after The Dynasty, Brian Pillman, Jr., Tom Lawlor, Jacob Fatu, Selina del la Renta, Teddy Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Jr., Low Ki or Mance Warner harder then. 

He's a great talent. Don't know if you're asking about him or the contract situation. But personally, I think Warner is a great talker with an authentic personality. He did do the stupid invisible man stuff that made the rounds, which just disheartens you to a guy's instincts, but it's a good sign that he'd be willing to sign with AEW. 

He's got a lot more potential than just about anyone in their "guys with potential" list, except for MJF.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> They've worked out some deals with MLW talent before, which makes it weirder they didn't go after The Dynasty, Brian Pillman, Jr., Tom Lawlor, Jacob Fatu, Selina del la Renta, Teddy Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Jr., Low Ki or Mance Warner harder then.
> 
> He's a great talent. Don't know if you're asking about him or the contract situation. But personally, I think Warner is a great talker with an authentic personality. He did do the stupid invisible man stuff that made the rounds, which just disheartens you to a guy's instincts, but it's a good sign that he'd be willing to sign with AEW.
> 
> He's got a lot more potential than just about anyone in their "guys with potential" list, except for MJF.


I was pretty much asking about him in general; I recognized the name but didn't know much in regards to his abilities. Good to hear that he wouldn't be a waste of money in the event that something is worked out. With that said...ahem...motions to profile avatar.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ericwaskk said:


> That's what I'm saying why all of sudden does AEW need to sigh all these ex WWE people? Especially people who ever really had much of an impact in WWE , honestly I say AEW should pass on MVP and Luke Harper, why do they need to sigh all these WWE reject tribute acts, why not just try and build their own product and make their own stars.


I've gone through this a fair few times in this thread. The WWE guys are seen by tens of millions around the world on a week to week basis and hundreds of thousands in arenas around the world every single year. Compare that to AEW which has their 700-900 thousand people audience and whatever they get from their international internet following (I'd suggest maybe 2-3 million)

AEW can build their own stars on TV and make them stars in the minds of the AEW fans but that would mean they'll forever remain at their current rating. However, if AEW can bring in a guy like an Edge or Orton or Cena or Punk you instantly bring attention to the product and whoever they end up working with which then creates stars. As I said a page or two earlier to the general wrestling fan MJF feuding with Edge or Orton and winning the feud means much more than winning a feud with Omega or Cody.

In terms of midcard talent the former WWE "rejects" often are much more experienced and better equipped for television. I know I'd rather a WWE "reject" like a Harry Smith, Lance Hoyt, Mr. Anderson toiling away in my midcard as opposed to a Joey Janella or Marko Stunt.

The local indies around me use this method also. They book guys like Carlito, Hardcore Holly and Orlando Jordan which always improves their houses significantly. The media pays more attention, the fans are happy to pay extra and pay for extras (Meet and Greets etc) and it adds prestige to the company just having them there. All of those guys haven't been in WWE for 10-15 years at this point and were only ever really midcard talents but people still want to see them simply because 10-15 years ago they wrestled for WWE and had memorable moments. Those guys outdraw big independent acts and NJPW acts at least here in Australia.

AEW obviously has a much bigger budget and doesn't really need those guys (Although I don't think Carlito would look too out of place in a tag team or lower midcard spot) but if they could pick up someone like Ryback it'd be a good piece of business. Imagine Moxley overcomes Jericho at the next AEW PPV, he's out on Dynamite celebrating, drinking, telling the crowd his story about how amazing it is to be AEW Champion and rah rah rah. Ryback emerges from the crowd with a motor mouthed manager and kicks the absolute shit out of Moxley as a total surprise and is revealed as the newest signing and number one contender to Moxley's title. It's a cool surprise, gives the "anything can happen" vibe plus it's an interesting match up.


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> I was pretty much asking about him in general; I recognized the name but didn't know much in regards to his abilities. Good to hear that he wouldn't be a waste of money in the event that something is worked out. With that said...ahem...motions to profile avatar.


I honestly haven't seen too many matches. Seems more a brawler type, which would be welcome, but not sure how he would fit. But his promo work is pretty outstanding. 

Hammerstone is a fucking no-brainer and I have no clue how they haven't arranged it. Other than Court Bauer just saying "No, he's mine." 

Honestly, part of me has a sneaking suspicion as more time goes along that there is a bit of insecurity in AEW. I think there are certain people who don't want guys who look like a million bucks and can work well enough that the spotlight is going to go them over the people already there. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I've gone through this a fair few times in this thread. The WWE guys are seen by tens of millions around the world on a week to week basis and hundreds of thousands in arenas around the world every single year. Compare that to AEW which has their 700-900 thousand people audience and whatever they get from their international internet following (I'd suggest maybe 2-3 million)
> 
> AEW can build their own stars on TV and make them stars in the minds of the AEW fans but that would mean they'll forever remain at their current rating. However, if AEW can bring in a guy like an Edge or Orton or Cena or Punk you instantly bring attention to the product and whoever they end up working with which then creates stars. As I said a page or two earlier to the general wrestling fan MJF feuding with Edge or Orton and winning the feud means much more than winning a feud with Omega or Cody.
> 
> In terms of midcard talent the former WWE "rejects" often are much more experienced and better equipped for television. I know I'd rather a WWE "reject" like a Harry Smith, Lance Hoyt, Mr. Anderson toiling away in my midcard as opposed to a Joey Janella or Marko Stunt.
> 
> The local indies around me use this method also. They book guys like Carlito, Hardcore Holly and Orlando Jordan which always improves their houses significantly. The media pays more attention, the fans are happy to pay extra and pay for extras (Meet and Greets etc) and it adds prestige to the company just having them there. All of those guys haven't been in WWE for 10-15 years at this point and were only ever really midcard talents but people still want to see them simply because 10-15 years ago they wrestled for WWE and had memorable moments. Those guys outdraw big independent acts and NJPW acts at least here in Australia.
> 
> AEW obviously has a much bigger budget and doesn't really need those guys (Although I don't think Carlito would look too out of place in a tag team or lower midcard spot) but if they could pick up someone like Ryback it'd be a good piece of business. Imagine Moxley overcomes Jericho at the next AEW PPV, he's out on Dynamite celebrating, drinking, telling the crowd his story about how amazing it is to be AEW Champion and rah rah rah. Ryback emerges from the crowd with a motor mouthed manager and kicks the absolute shit out of Moxley as a total surprise and is revealed as the newest signing and number one contender to Moxley's title. It's a cool surprise, gives the "anything can happen" vibe plus it's an interesting match up.


You're making so much sense you're about to get called a troll.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> That's what Jericho for and what he will probably be done once he drops the title. Cody currently doing that with MJF. Also that was much different time and in front of bigger audience. Also guys like Hogan/Savage were megastars. You don't have those type of guys around today.
> 
> 
> While Stone Cold gimmick got him over. He could have done the Mania Bret Hart spot with Sid and got just as over. Much smaller audience watches wrestling today. That is why the stars in WWE today wouldn't move the needle if they jump ship. *Because WWE decided to make the brand the star instead of individuals. So you need to realize times changed.*


Exactly.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine Moxley overcomes Jericho at the next AEW PPV, he's out on Dynamite celebrating, drinking, telling the crowd his story about how amazing it is to be AEW Champion and rah rah rah. Ryback emerges from the crowd with a motor mouthed manager and kicks the absolute shit out of Moxley as a total surprise and is revealed as the newest signing and number one contender to Moxley's title. It's a cool surprise, gives the "anything can happen" vibe plus it's an interesting match up.


I think this would work really well for Brodie Lee as well, especially given their history from the days of the Shield vs. Wyatt Family, which could be hinted at without having to outright state it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> I honestly haven't seen too many matches. Seems more a brawler type, which would be welcome, but not sure how he would fit. But his promo work is pretty outstanding.
> 
> Hammerstone is a fucking no-brainer and I have no clue how they haven't arranged it. Other than Court Bauer just saying "No, he's mine."
> 
> *Honestly, part of me has a sneaking suspicion as more time goes along that there is a bit of insecurity in AEW. I think there are certain people who don't want guys who look like a million bucks and can work well enough that the spotlight is going to go them over the people already there.*


I have no evidence of this being true, but I can swear I recall reading somewhere that this was a huge reason the Bucks didn't extend an offer to the Briscoe Brothers.


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> I have no evidence of this being true, but I can swear I recall reading somewhere that this was a huge reason the Bucks didn't extend an offer to the Briscoe Brothers.


I've heard it on here, but I'm not sure I've seen it from a credible source or as anything other than speculation. Honestly, regardless of if it were true or not, I think they'd stay away from The Briscoes because of some of Jay's anti-gay statements in the past. But if The Bucks were insecure about them, that's a convenient excuse to have.


----------



## RiverFenix

Ol' Mancer has run the indie circuit AEW seems to look to as a feeders of sorts. His speaking style is too much of a Austin rip off for my liking - he's been feuding with Jimmy Havok in MLW most recently and they've done some crazy angles and death match stuff.

He's basically a character mash of Austin and Jay Briscoe.


----------



## ericwaskk

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've gone through this a fair few times in this thread. The WWE guys are seen by tens of millions around the world on a week to week basis and hundreds of thousands in arenas around the world every single year. Compare that to AEW which has their 700-900 thousand people audience and whatever they get from their international internet following (I'd suggest maybe 2-3 million)
> 
> AEW can build their own stars on TV and make them stars in the minds of the AEW fans but that would mean they'll forever remain at their current rating. However, if AEW can bring in a guy like an Edge or Orton or Cena or Punk you instantly bring attention to the product and whoever they end up working with which then creates stars. As I said a page or two earlier to the general wrestling fan MJF feuding with Edge or Orton and winning the feud means much more than winning a feud with Omega or Cody.
> 
> In terms of midcard talent the former WWE "rejects" often are much more experienced and better equipped for television. I know I'd rather a WWE "reject" like a Harry Smith, Lance Hoyt, Mr. Anderson toiling away in my midcard as opposed to a Joey Janella or Marko Stunt.
> 
> The local indies around me use this method also. They book guys like Carlito, Hardcore Holly and Orlando Jordan which always improves their houses significantly. The media pays more attention, the fans are happy to pay extra and pay for extras (Meet and Greets etc) and it adds prestige to the company just having them there. All of those guys haven't been in WWE for 10-15 years at this point and were only ever really midcard talents but people still want to see them simply because 10-15 years ago they wrestled for WWE and had memorable moments. Those guys outdraw big independent acts and NJPW acts at least here in Australia.
> 
> AEW obviously has a much bigger budget and doesn't really need those guys (Although I don't think Carlito would look too out of place in a tag team or lower midcard spot) but if they could pick up someone like Ryback it'd be a good piece of business. Imagine Moxley overcomes Jericho at the next AEW PPV, he's out on Dynamite celebrating, drinking, telling the crowd his story about how amazing it is to be AEW Champion and rah rah rah. Ryback emerges from the crowd with a motor mouthed manager and kicks the absolute shit out of Moxley as a total surprise and is revealed as the newest signing and number one contender to Moxley's title. It's a cool surprise, gives the "anything can happen" vibe plus it's an interesting match up.




I mean I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding Orton, Cena, Punk, or Edge, but guess what we aren't talking about any of those guys we are talking about guys like Luke Harper and MVP.


As far as Ryback or Carlito goes I also think AEW should pass.


----------



## imthegame19

ericwaskk said:


> Now if someone like Orton or the Miz wanted to come over then I might change my tune although does sighing MVP or Luke Harper even Matt Hardy ( now Jeff Hardy is a completely different story for me) really excite anyone?


MVP said he's retiring soon. I wouldn't want him anyways but he's not even a option.

The problem you are having is you are basing things off top guys WWE pushed. You gotta open your mind and look past the guy you saw in WWE. Yes if Brodie Lee shows up in the same Wyatt Family gear and doesn't talk much. With being booked as midcarder or tag guy. Yeah I don't want that guy either.


But you repackage him as a big tall bad ass with new ring gear and let him talk. Well you could have a totally have different guy on your hands. Hes hype of under value WWE guy who never got past IC or tag team stuff. Simply because Vince didn't see anything in him.



As for Matt Hardy, the guy is a known among wrestling fans going back to attitude era. All the fans who know who Orton, Edge or Miz are. Know who Matt Hardy is as well. Despite not being as over as his brother or been booked like a star or won World titles in WWE. Hes had peaks where he was extremely over and has a big following. Hes someone you bring in to help put over younger talent and make them bigger stars.


Reality is AEW not adding any of the big name WWE guys that will excite you in 2020 and maybe not 2021. They will target the undervalued guys looking to prove themselves like Harper/Brodie Lee. Or a guy who still feels he has something to offer in Matt Hardy. 


They want to create their own stars and have the peak of a guy like Harper/Lee career to be in AEW not what we saw in WWE. Look at the 90s and all the stars who failed in their first runs with companies. Then became stars once another company did something different with them. AEW finally gives wrestlers opportunities to do that again. One man opinion no longer makes or breaks your career.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ericwaskk said:


> I mean I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding Orton, Cena, Punk, or Edge, but guess what we aren't talking about any of those guys we are talking about guys like Luke Harper and MVP.
> 
> 
> As far as Ryback or Carlito goes I also think AEW should pass.


Carlito as a lower midcard guy or someone like him would be fine. You're looking at it too much from a fans perspective which is fine because you are one but when you're doing business you want people who appeal on a national level.

Ryback is in phenomenal shape, is instantly recognisable, has a big following and is popular. Why not bring him in? He's not a great in ring wrestler but AEW need to get away from that anyway. The money is in stories and compelling characters not flippys and suplexes.


----------



## Dice Morgan

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Ol' Mancer has run the indie circuit AEW seems to look to as a feeders of sorts. His speaking style is too much of a Austin rip off for my liking - he's been feuding with Jimmy Havok in MLW most recently and they've done some crazy angles and death match stuff.
> 
> He's basically a character mash of Austin and Jay Briscoe.


I’ve watched MLW on You Tube for the past 2 years and I’m really not sure how Mance Warner fits into AEW . Unless you redo the feud with Havoc or maybe Darby Allin. Unless they have a working agreement with MLW , I would think there are better options elsewhere.


----------



## ericwaskk

Chip Chipperson said:


> Carlito as a lower midcard guy or someone like him would be fine. You're looking at it too much from a fans perspective which is fine because you are one but when you're doing business you want people who appeal on a national level.
> 
> Ryback is in phenomenal shape, is instantly recognisable, has a big following and is popular. Why not bring him in? He's not a great in ring wrestler but AEW need to get away from that anyway. The money is in stories and compelling characters not flippys and suplexes.


I see your point in Carlito and Ryback for name recognition although honestly like I said I think they need to make their own stars and build up their own talent. 

Now two guys who I think would be great realistic sighs are Sami Callahan and Davey Richards, maybe even Eddie Edwards.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ericwaskk said:


> I see your point in Carlito and Ryback for name recognition although honestly like I said I think they need to make their own stars and build up their own talent.
> 
> Now two guys who I think would be great realistic sighs are Sami Callahan and Davey Richards, maybe even Eddie Edwards.


But you can't make your own stars and build up your own talent without stars for them to beat...


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> But you can't make your own stars and build up your own talent without stars for them to beat...


No reason they can't do both; bring in some talented new blood worth molding into stars and supplement it with guys who carry some name value.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> But you can't make your own stars and build up your own talent without stars for them to beat...


(Cue a Homer Simpson "D'oh!" when AEW realize what they've done)


----------



## ericwaskk

Chip Chipperson said:


> But you can't make your own stars and build up your own talent without stars for them to beat...



Hate to break it to you, although this is 2020 Ryback and Carlito are not stars. Moxley is a star, Rollins is a star, Reigns is a star, Miz is a star, Orton is a star, Ryback and Carlito are not.


----------



## Cult03

ericwaskk said:


> Hate to break it to you, although this is 2020 Ryback and Carlito are not stars. Moxley is a star, Rollins is a star, Reigns is a star, Miz is a star, Orton is a star, Ryback and Carlito are not.


Someone called Darby a superstar in the 'Darby Allin's look' thread. If we are just calling everyone a superstar, Ryback and Carlito are GOATs


----------



## Chip Chipperson

El Hammerstone said:


> No reason they can't do both; bring in some talented new blood worth molding into stars and supplement it with guys who carry some name value.


What I would do isn't really a hard concept.

Assuming AEW give me the cheque book as of 18 months ago or whenever they started signing guys to full time contracts I'd have signed 20-30 of the best potential future stars I could. MJF, Cage, Hammerstone (Who obviously you yourself are a fan of), Fatu, Pillman Jr, Von Erichs, Page, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Lucha Brothers (You could argue they're established but most of America don't know them), Elgin, Moose, Sami Callihan, Eli Drake (How is he NOT signed?), Nick Aldis, Tessa Blanchard, Martinez, Thunder Rosa, Iveliesse and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

Then sign 15-20 established names. Jericho, Moxley, Bucks, Omega, Rhodes, Dustin, Damien Sandow, Ryback, Rhino, Rob Van Dam, Pac, a few veterans for the midcard (Guys like Anderson, Carlito, Chris Masters etc) and some established women such as Melina, Tenille etc to round things out.

You then sign a good writing team to write emotionally investing stories for you and you bring in an announce team that is young, exciting and matches the product you're trying to portray (Not getting on JR who I love but come on...) and I genuinely think you'd have a roster that would easily blitz NXT most weeks. The worst part is AEW could still get most of these men and women right now bar a few but they're loyal to the likes of Chuck Taylor, Joey Janella, Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ericwaskk said:


> Hate to break it to you, although this is 2020 Ryback and Carlito are not stars. Moxley is a star, Rollins is a star, Reigns is a star, Miz is a star, Orton is a star, Ryback and Carlito are not.


I said Carlito was a good lower midcard option so he'd be an okay guy to feud with a young guy in his first feud or work a tag feud. I know he's not still a star at least not in America.

As for Ryback I think he'd definitely be top 5 in terms of popularity at AEW and I'd argue that he is more known throughout the world than the likes of Omega and The Bucks who are treated like the children of god by the AEW fans.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> What I would do isn't really a hard concept.
> 
> Assuming AEW give me the cheque book as of 18 months ago or whenever they started signing guys to full time contracts I'd have signed 20-30 of the best potential future stars I could. MJF, Cage, Hammerstone (Who obviously you yourself are a fan of), Fatu, Pillman Jr, Von Erichs, Page, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Lucha Brothers (You could argue they're established but most of America don't know them), Elgin, Moose, Sami Callihan, Eli Drake (How is he NOT signed?), Nick Aldis, Tessa Blanchard, Martinez, Thunder Rosa, Iveliesse and I'm sure I'm missing a few.
> 
> Then sign 15-20 established names. Jericho, Moxley, Bucks, Omega, Rhodes, Dustin, Damien Sandow, Ryback, Rhino, Rob Van Dam, Pac, a few veterans for the midcard (Guys like Anderson, Carlito, Chris Masters etc) and some established women such as Melina, Tenille etc to round things out.
> 
> You then sign a good writing team to write emotionally investing stories for you and you bring in an announce team that is young, exciting and matches the product you're trying to portray (Not getting on JR who I love but come on...) and I genuinely think you'd have a roster that would easily blitz NXT most weeks. The worst part is AEW could still get most of these men and women right now bar a few but they're loyal to the likes of Chuck Taylor, Joey Janella, Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss.


Aside from a few of the names mentioned, I agree wholeheartedly with all of this. I'd throw Mel and Dr.Luther into the bin with Taylor, Janella, Stunt, and Kiss as well.


----------



## Cult03

This could be fun. You can swap any AEW stars you want for someone on the indies/someone they could plausibly sign. I'll even try to tick a few of the similar boxes with a few of them. Go.

Brandon Cutler for Hammerstone
Jimmy Havoc for Eli Drake
Joey Janela for Jacob Fatu
Marko Stunt for Killer Kross
Michael Nakazawa for Jiro Kuroshio
Sonny Kiss for Anthony Bowens
Nyla Rose for Candy Lee
Emi Sakura for Gisele Shaw
Private Party for The Von Erichs
Angelico and Jack Evans for The Briscoes
Anthony Agogo for Hafþór Björnsson aka The Mountain
Chuck Taylor for Brian Pillman Jr.
Kip Sabian for Chris Ridgeway
Leva Bates for Kamilla Kaine
Mel for Jordynne Grace
Dr. Luther for Karlee Perez

Then bring in your Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, Mil Muertes and Matt Hardy when necessary. 

Send these guys to train/Covering their roster position
Austin Gunn for Flip Gordon
Britt Baker for Tessa Blanchard
Jamie Hayter for Ivelisse
Kris Statlander for Tenille Dashwood
Sammy Guevara for Will Ospreay

Then sign a bunch of people on development contracts, meaning they wrestle elsewhere but are seen as the future and can be trained under AEW (Someone like Al Snow, Bob Holly, Scott Hall etc.)
Anthony Greene
Chris Bey
Cody Hall
Edge Stone
Millie McKenzie
William Eaver
Paige Vanzant
Caveman Ugg
Adam Brooks
Alex Gracia
Steph De Lander
Mark Davis
Matty Wahlberg
Montana Black
Scotty Davis

Honest answers, who wouldn't want to watch this show?


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cult03 said:


> This could be fun. You can swap any AEW stars you want for someone on the indies/someone they could plausibly sign. I'll even try to tick a few of the similar boxes with a few of them. Go.
> 
> Brandon Cutler for Hammerstone
> Jimmy Havoc for Eli Drake
> Joey Janela for Jacob Fatu
> Marko Stunt for Killer Kross
> Michael Nakazawa for Jiro Kuroshio
> Sonny Kiss for Anthony Bowens
> Nyla Rose for Candy Lee
> Emi Sakura for Gisele Shaw
> Private Party for The Von Erichs
> Angelico and Jack Evans for The Briscoes
> Anthony Agogo for Hafþór Björnsson aka The Mountain
> Chuck Taylor for Brian Pillman Jr.
> Kip Sabian for Chris Ridgeway
> Leva Bates for Kamilla Kaine
> Mel for Jordynne Grace
> Dr. Luther for Karlee Perez
> 
> Then bring in your Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, Mil Muertes and Matt Hardy when necessary.
> 
> Send these guys to train/Covering their roster position
> Austin Gunn for Flip Gordon
> Britt Baker for Tessa Blanchard
> Jamie Hayter for Ivelisse
> Kris Statlander for Tenille Dashwood
> Sammy Guevara for Will Ospreay
> 
> Then sign a bunch of people on development contracts, meaning they wrestle elsewhere but are seen as the future and can be trained under AEW (Someone like Al Snow, Bob Holly, Scott Hall etc.)
> Anthony Greene
> Chris Bey
> Cody Hall
> Edge Stone
> Millie McKenzie
> William Eaver
> Paige Vanzant
> Caveman Ugg
> Adam Brooks
> Alex Gracia
> Steph De Lander
> Mark Davis
> Matty Wahlberg
> Montana Black
> Scotty Davis
> 
> Honest answers, who wouldn't want to watch this show?



Sure, I'll play along:

Jimmy Havoc for Alex Hammerstone
Marko Stunt for Bandido
Joey Janela for David Starr
Michael Nakazawa for Jake Lee (I hear Nakazawa is very good at graphic design, let him take a backstage role doing that)
Sonny Kiss for Eli Drake
Anthony Agogo for Killer Kross
Chuck Taylor for Zach Sabre Jr.
Dr. Luther for Jacob Fatu
Jack Evans for Will Ospreay
Angelico for "Switchblade" Jay White
Alex Reynolds for Josh Briggs
Peter Avalon for Jurn Simmons
John Silver for Chris Ridgway
CIMA for Jay Briscoe
QT Marshall for Mark Briscoe
Mel for Tenille Dashwood
Emi Sakura for Tessa Blanchard
Leva Bates for Jordynne Grace

Of course, Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, The Revival, and Matt Hardy

I would send Private Party to developmental as I think they have potential but are still unrefined and very rough around the edges, Big Swole as well.


----------



## imthegame19

Chip Chipperson said:


> What I would do isn't really a hard concept.
> 
> Assuming AEW give me the cheque book as of 18 months ago or whenever they started signing guys to full time contracts I'd have signed 20-30 of the best potential future stars I could. MJF, Cage, Hammerstone (Who obviously you yourself are a fan of), Fatu, Pillman Jr, Von Erichs, Page, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Lucha Brothers (You could argue they're established but most of America don't know them), Elgin, Moose, Sami Callihan, Eli Drake (How is he NOT signed?), Nick Aldis, Tessa Blanchard, Martinez, Thunder Rosa, Iveliesse and I'm sure I'm missing a few.
> 
> Then sign 15-20 established names. Jericho, Moxley, Bucks, Omega, Rhodes, Dustin, Damien Sandow, Ryback, Rhino, Rob Van Dam, Pac, a few veterans for the midcard (Guys like Anderson, Carlito, Chris Masters etc) and some established women such as Melina, Tenille etc to round things out.
> 
> You then sign a good writing team to write emotionally investing stories for you and you bring in an announce team that is young, exciting and matches the product you're trying to portray (Not getting on JR who I love but come on...) and I genuinely think you'd have a roster that would easily blitz NXT most weeks. The worst part is AEW could still get most of these men and women right now bar a few but they're loyal to the likes of Chuck Taylor, Joey Janella, Marko Stunt and Sonny Kiss.


They can't get most of those men and women. Most of them are under contract to either Impact, MLW or NWA.


----------



## El Hammerstone

imthegame19 said:


> They can't get most of those men and women. Most of them are under contract to either Impact, MLW or NWA.


He knows, it's just hypothetical.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> They can't get most of those men and women. Most of them are under contract to either Impact, MLW or NWA.


Here's what you do: You ring up Greg Gilliland/Court Bauer. You tell them what you are doing. You offer to either buy out the contract of the talent, or work out some sort of agreement where you work together and both parties get dates. In exchange, they get money, which they will love. They will also get to finish up their talent in big angles and the like, which helps them out. Then you can also occasionally offer them dates on guys like Jericho and Moxley. 

"Hey, Court, I hear your Battle Riot PPV is coming up. How would you like to be able to put Jericho and Moxley in that? They can't pin each other, but Moxley can throw Jericho out and take a pin from your winner."

The only company in the world that isn't going to play ball with you is WWE, for obvious reasons. Anyone else was fair game. No promotion is going to say "NO! We NEED Brian Pillman, Jr. and we will FIGHT you and piss you off for him!" And that's not a knock on BPJ. 

You can even use these promotions like your developmental. Some of their talent needs it. But if you send Britt Baker to work in a promotion that actually has some decent women? She might get better. AEW can pay her contract, so essentially whichever promotion has got the good women in it will have a talent representing another promotion for free. This is how the WWF/OVW relationship used to work. 

There's no reason that a promotion would not want the following talent: 

From MLW: 


Jacob Fatu (the guy is money and with a good manager, he'd get real heat)
Mance Warner (so much personality)
Salina de la Renta (hot as hell and a great promo/manager)
MJF (who they got)
Alexander Hammerstone (who would be excellent with MJF)
Richard Holliday (as another part of the MJF act)
The Hart Foundation (for their tag team division)
Konnan (as a mouthpiece for Santana and Ortiz)
Timothy Thatcher
Tom Lawlor

They could all still work MLW dates, but you probably want priority on Fatu, MJF, Hammerstone, Lawlor and de la Renta.

From ROH: 


Bandido
Bully Ray (promos and name, although I hate to admit it)
Dalton Castle (great gimmick, solid mid-card act)
Dragon Lee
The Briscoes
Jay Lethal
Josh Woods
Marty Scurll
PCO (the hype is strong)
Rush
Ian Riccaboni to be a modern voice
Mayu Iwatani

Out of them, you probably want priority on The Briscoes, Jay Lethal, Marty Scurll, PCO and Ian Riccaboni. I don't really know which luchadors are the most valuable. You'd probably lean on Konnan for that, but you also don't want to ruffle feathers and take them away from places like ROH and MLW completely. 

From NWA: 


Aron Stevens (great comedy heel, could be an interesting ally to a foil for Cody)
Eddie Kingston (as a part-time agent or talker for someone -- maybe Santana & Ortiz?)
Eli Drake
Ricky Starks (great prospect)
Trevor Murdoch (okay, this is my own personal thing -- I think he's amazing)
Allysin Kay
Brian Hebner to be an actually good referee alongside Paul Turner, Audrey Edwards and Mike Posey

From TNA: 


Kiera Hogan (heard good things about her)
Tessa Blanchard (obviously)
Madison Rayne (familiarity)
Tenille Dashwood (great look)
James Mitchell (manager)
Gail Kim (beg her to wrestle again)
Eddie Edwards (solid mid-card guy)

Free Agents:


Chris Masters
Carlito
John Morrison
Cheerleader Melissa
CM Punk

From AEW you can cut: 


Alex Reynolds (send him to ROH)
Angelico (send him to MLW)
Chuck Taylor (fuck him)
Evil Uno (fuck him)
Isiah Kassidy (send him to ROH)
Jack Evans (send him to MLW)
Jimmy Havoc (send him to MLW)
John Silver (send him to ROH)
Kip Sabian (send him to ROH)
Luther (fuck him)
Marko Stunt (fuck him)
Michael Nakazawa (fuck him)
Orange Cassidy (fuck him -- if he wants to wrestle seriously, new gimmick in NWA)
Peter Avalon (send him to the NWA)
Sonny Kiss (fuck him)
Every single women's wrestler they have other than Nyla Rose, Shanna, Sadie Gibbs and Hikaru Shida and MAYBE Awesome Kong for special appearances and The Bunny to be a sexpot
Excalibur
Goldenboy

Now, you may not use all these people all at once and at the same time, but you can cycle them in and out and use them in other places. Trevor Murdoch could do a program with Mance Warner, for example, put over Mance, then go back to working in the NWA or even somewhere like OVW to help out for a bit. You may not bring in Eli Drake week one of television, but you can have him there after a few weeks in the crowd talking about how Cody is scared of signing him.


----------



## Jazminator

I’m going to try to do fair or even trades.

Nyla Rose for the Beautiful People
Jimmy Havoc and Joey Janela for Sami Callihan
Hybrid2 for Killer Kross
Awesome Kong, Mel and Luther for Rosemary
Jake Hager for Jay Lethal

I just don’t see Impact being willing to give up Tessa, unless it’s for a huge AEW name.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Here's what you do: You ring up Greg Gilliland/Court Bauer. You tell them what you are doing. You offer to either buy out the contract of the talent, or work out some sort of agreement where you work together and both parties get dates. In exchange, they get money, which they will love. They will also get to finish up their talent in big angles and the like, which helps them out. Then you can also occasionally offer them dates on guys like Jericho and Moxley.
> 
> "Hey, Court, I hear your Battle Riot PPV is coming up. How would you like to be able to put Jericho and Moxley in that? They can't pin each other, but Moxley can throw Jericho out and take a pin from your winner."
> 
> The only company in the world that isn't going to play ball with you is WWE, for obvious reasons. Anyone else was fair game. No promotion is going to say "NO! We NEED Brian Pillman, Jr. and we will FIGHT you and piss you off for him!" And that's not a knock on BPJ.
> 
> You can even use these promotions like your developmental. Some of their talent needs it. But if you send Britt Baker to work in a promotion that actually has some decent women? She might get better. AEW can pay her contract, so essentially whichever promotion has got the good women in it will have a talent representing another promotion for free. This is how the WWF/OVW relationship used to work.
> 
> There's no reason that a promotion would not want the following talent:
> 
> From MLW:
> 
> 
> Jacob Fatu (the guy is money and with a good manager, he'd get real heat)
> Mance Warner (so much personality)
> Salina de la Renta (hot as hell and a great promo/manager)
> MJF (who they got)
> Alexander Hammerstone (who would be excellent with MJF)
> Richard Holliday (as another part of the MJF act)
> The Hart Foundation (for their tag team division)
> Konnan (as a mouthpiece for Santana and Ortiz)
> Timothy Thatcher
> Tom Lawlor
> They could all still work MLW dates, but you probably want priority on Fatu, MJF, Hammerstone, Lawlor and de la Renta.
> 
> From ROH:
> 
> 
> Bandido
> Bully Ray (promos and name, although I hate to admit it)
> Dalton Castle (great gimmick, solid mid-card act)
> Dragon Lee
> The Briscoes
> Jay Lethal
> Josh Woods
> Marty Scurll
> PCO (the hype is strong)
> Rush
> Ian Riccaboni to be a modern voice
> Mayu Iwatani
> Out of them, you probably want priority on The Briscoes, Jay Lethal, Marty Scurll, PCO and Ian Riccaboni. I don't really know which luchadors are the most valuable. You'd probably lean on Konnan for that, but you also don't want to ruffle feathers and take them away from places like ROH and MLW completely.
> 
> From NWA:
> 
> 
> Aron Stevens (great comedy heel, could be an interesting ally to a foil for Cody)
> Eddie Kingston (as a part-time agent or talker for someone -- maybe Santana & Ortiz?)
> Eli Drake
> Ricky Starks (great prospect)
> Trevor Murdoch (okay, this is my own personal thing -- I think he's amazing)
> Allysin Kay
> Brian Hebner to be an actually good referee alongside Paul Turner, Audrey Edwards and Mike Posey
> From TNA:
> 
> 
> Kiera Hogan (heard good things about her)
> Tessa Blanchard (obviously)
> Madison Rayne (familiarity)
> Tenille Dashwood (great look)
> James Mitchell (manager)
> Gail Kim (beg her to wrestle again)
> Eddie Edwards (solid mid-card guy)
> Free Agents:
> 
> 
> Chris Masters
> Carlito
> John Morrison
> Cheerleader Melissa
> CM Punk
> From AEW you can cut:
> 
> 
> Alex Reynolds (send him to ROH)
> Angelico (send him to MLW)
> Chuck Taylor (fuck him)
> Evil Uno (fuck him)
> Isiah Kassidy (send him to ROH)
> Jack Evans (send him to MLW)
> Jimmy Havoc (send him to MLW)
> John Silver (send him to ROH)
> Kip Sabian (send him to ROH)
> Luther (fuck him)
> Marko Stunt (fuck him)
> Michael Nakazawa (fuck him)
> Orange Cassidy (fuck him -- if he wants to wrestle seriously, new gimmick in NWA)
> Peter Avalon (send him to the NWA)
> Sonny Kiss (fuck him)
> Every single women's wrestler they have other than Nyla Rose, Shanna, Sadie Gibbs and Hikaru Shida and MAYBE Awesome Kong for special appearances and The Bunny to be a sexpot
> Excalibur
> Goldenboy
> Now, you may not use all these people all at once and at the same time, but you can cycle them in and out and use them in other places. Trevor Murdoch could do a program with Mance Warner, for example, put over Mance, then go back to working in the NWA or even somewhere like OVW to help out for a bit. You may not bring in Eli Drake week one of television, but you can have him there after a few weeks in the crowd talking about how Cody is scared of signing him.


See.

This is a great post, man. Youreally simply offering an IDEA without stamping it as what MUST be done.

You know your wrestling, and we agree on a lot. When you offer ideas without acting as if it is the only way to skin a cat, that’s where we disagree. Just because another option or idea has escaped our minds, doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist.


----------



## The Wood

Sure, except when I am talking about something that is objectively right or wrong, I will call it such, lol.


----------



## bdon

But none of this stuff is black and white. Not signing such and such is clearly a miss, but it doesn’t mean they’re doomed to failure. That’s all I’m saying.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, man. 2+2=4 and so does 3+1 and 1+1+1+1 and 4+0.


----------



## The Wood

Sure, and I wouldn't argue with that. Some ways are going to be much easier though.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Sure, and I wouldn't argue with that. Some ways are going to be much easier though.


Awesome. We’re getting somewhere now.

They have taken what I believe to be a more difficult path in how they’ve done things, but they’ve not fell on their faces either. I have been pissed with a lot of what they’ve done, and at a younger age before having a family and all that, I’d have been screaming at the high heavens about their decision-making.

But as it stands, life and family teaches you there is give and pull, that the path and destination you see for someone or something you care about is constantly changing.

AEW hasn’t done everything I believe they should, but I’m willing to let them navigate THEIR path.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Awesome. We’re getting somewhere now.
> 
> They have taken what I believe to be a more difficult path in how they’ve done things, but they’ve not fell on their faces either. I have been pissed with a lot of what they’ve done, and at a younger age before having a family and all that, I’d have been screaming at the high heavens about their decision-making.
> 
> But as it stands, life and family teaches you there is give and pull, that the path and destination you see for someone or something you care about is constantly changing.
> 
> AEW hasn’t done everything I believe they should, but I’m willing to let them navigate THEIR path.


Well, no, that's always been my philosophy. While you accuse me of being egotistical, you do come off very condescending, lol. And I say that with love.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Well, no, that's always been my philosophy. While you accuse me of being egotistical, you do come off very condescending, lol. And I say that with love.


Well, I’m an asshole. Lmao


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Well, I’m an asshole. Lmao


If you're an asshole, I'm an asshole. <3


----------



## bdon

Fair enough. Hah


----------



## El Hammerstone

Well, Killer Kross and Timothy Thatcher have both signed with the WWE (holy shit is that NXT roster good). It's fine though, I'm sure top talent will be lining up in droves to sign with AEW if intergender matches become a norm; not to mention the opportunity to sell for Marko Stunt.


----------



## the_flock

You forgot Mercedes Martinez and Taya Valkyrie, 2 women who would have boosted AEWs women's division.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> You forgot Mercedes Martinez and Taya Valkyrie, 2 women who would have boosted AEWs women's division.


Taya’s contract is only up in 2021


----------



## El Hammerstone

the_flock said:


> You forgot Mercedes Martinez and Taya Valkyrie, 2 women who would have boosted AEWs women's division.


Tenille Dashwood would have been a worthwhile pickup as well.


----------



## Boldgerg

I much prefer what AEW is doing (in general, some of it is still shit) over WWE's main roster product, but I don't think there's any denying that they seem to be struggling to attract people at the moment, for whatever reason.

If they do get Brodie Lee, Brian Cage and maybe even Ryback signed then that'll keep me happy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boldgerg said:


> I much prefer what AEW is doing (in general, some of it is still shit) over WWE's main roster product, but I don't think there's any denying that they seem to be struggling to attract people at the moment, for whatever reason.
> 
> If they do get Brodie Lee, Brian Cage and maybe even Ryback signed then that'll keep me happy.


i think they look a lot more at ‘attitude’ than we think

Bucks and Cody used to call it ‘merch table cred’ - they only mingled with wrestlers who interacted positively with the fans, before and after shows - hustled their merch tables and was respectful to fans even in the back

that is a smaller circle than what we might think. They have such a family environment, maybe a bad vibed person can throw that off

i’m certain that is why Ivilisse (sp?) is not signed for instance


----------



## Pippen94

Wrestlers happy to take wwe cash knowing they'll most probably be misused & stuck in nxt. Can't blame them either, but takes people like Mox to have courage to breakout & reach potential else where.


----------



## Pippen94

El Hammerstone said:


> Well, Killer Kross and Timothy Thatcher have both signed with the WWE (holy shit is that NXT roster good). It's fine though, I'm sure top talent will be lining up in droves to sign with AEW if intergender matches become a norm; not to mention the opportunity to sell for Marko Stunt.


Wwe offers more money & security. Wrestlers would rather sit in nxt


----------



## bdon

Kross took the money knowing he will be misused, because he is trying to stay close with Scarlett.

He will get the money, no doubt, but he lost the girl the minute she signed with WWE.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> Kross took the money knowing he will be misused, because he is trying to stay close with Scarlett.
> 
> He will get the money, no doubt, but he lost the girl the minute she signed with WWE.


Doubt he'll be misused on NXT; the main roster is a different story though.


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> Doubt he'll be misused on NXT; the main roster is a different story though.


He was very sought after. I wouldn't be surprised if he has some type of booking power in his contract.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think they look a lot more at ‘attitude’ than we think
> 
> Bucks and Cody used to call it ‘merch table cred’ - they only mingled with wrestlers who interacted positively with the fans, before and after shows - hustled their merch tables and was respectful to fans even in the back
> 
> that is a smaller circle than what we might think. They have such a family environment, maybe a bad vibed person can throw that off
> 
> i’m certain that is why Ivilisse (sp?) is not signed for instance


Lol, and I get accused of spin. It can't just be because wrestlers don't want to sign with AEW, could it?



Pippen94 said:


> Wrestlers happy to take wwe cash knowing they'll most probably be misused & stuck in nxt. Can't blame them either, but takes people like Mox to have courage to breakout & reach potential else where.


NXT is basically watched by the same amount of people as Dynamite, with the possibility of being watched by millions more when they cross over with Raw and SmackDown. Moxley is doing the same thing in AEW as in WWE, only in front of a smaller audience. If his contract were coming up now instead of when it did, it's very likely he re-ups with WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Lol, and I get accused of spin. It can't just be because wrestlers don't want to sign with AEW, could it?
> 
> 
> 
> NXT is basically watched by the same amount of people as Dynamite, with the possibility of being watched by millions more when they cross over with Raw and SmackDown. Moxley is doing the same thing in AEW as in WWE, only in front of a smaller audience. If his contract were coming up now instead of when it did, it's very likely he re-ups with WWE.


Well nxt has a much older audience, but with aew you have a greater say in creative. Some wrestlers will be drawn to that - some will just go for the money & security depends on their situation. After listening to Moxley interviews hard to imagine he resigns, of course you talk out of your ass most times.


----------



## elidrakefan76

Eli Drake is a guy who really is starting to get over in the NWA. He belongs on a bigger stage and depending on when his contract expires, AEW should take a hard look at him. Him and MJF going back and forth in promo's would be gold.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> Lol, and I get accused of spin. It can't just be because wrestlers don't want to sign with AEW, could it?
> 
> 
> 
> NXT is basically watched by the same amount of people as Dynamite, with the possibility of being watched by millions more when they cross over with Raw and SmackDown. Moxley is doing the same thing in AEW as in WWE, only in front of a smaller audience. If his contract were coming up now instead of when it did, it's very likely he re-ups with WWE.


No, lol, he isn't. Mox was never ever the centerpiece of an entire promotion. You hate AEW but it has a super loyal fan base that is much larger than ANY other company in HISTORY at this point in their growth. Mox is the centerpiece to the whole deal. He just looks so much happier its ridiculous to think he would ever go back to WWE when he doesnt have to. AEW is going nowhere, sorry to disappoint you.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

elidrakefan76 said:


> Eli Drake is a guy who really is starting to get over in the NWA. He belongs on a bigger stage and depending on when his contract expires, AEW should take a hard look at him. Him and MJF going back and forth in promo's would be gold.


Yes, they should. He is a star.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

In the end, Killer Kross took a developmental deal lol. WWE obviously thought he wasn't good enough for TV yet. The guy is 34. How much longer than he spend in developmental? AEW have probably dodged a bullet.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Kross took the money knowing he will be misused, because he is trying to stay close with Scarlett.
> 
> He will get the money, no doubt, but he lost the girl the minute she signed with WWE.





Pippen94 said:


> Wrestlers happy to take wwe cash knowing they'll most probably be misused & stuck in nxt. Can't blame them either, but takes people like Mox to have courage to breakout & reach potential else where.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think they look a lot more at ‘attitude’ than we think
> 
> Bucks and Cody used to call it ‘merch table cred’ - they only mingled with wrestlers who interacted positively with the fans, before and after shows - hustled their merch tables and was respectful to fans even in the back
> 
> that is a smaller circle than what we might think. They have such a family environment, maybe a bad vibed person can throw that off
> 
> i’m certain that is why Ivilisse (sp?) is not signed for instance


All of these sound like ridiculous hypotheticals on why they're not getting more free agents. It can't just be that maybe AEW isn't attractive enough to people, it has to be that free agents don't have enough courage or AEW just has this super strict hiring policy and thats why they didn't get Kross.





optikk sucks said:


> In the end, Killer Kross took a developmental deal lol. WWE obviously thought he wasn't good enough for TV yet. The guy is 34. How much longer than he spend in developmental? AEW have probably dodged a bullet.


Nah that sounds like an indictment on AEW. He'd rather go do extra training than sign with the number 2 promotion and immediately be on TV


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RapShepard said:


> All of these sound like ridiculous hypotheticals on why they're not getting more free agents. It can't just be that maybe AEW isn't attractive enough to people, it has to be that free agents don't have enough courage or AEW just has this super strict hiring policy and thats why they didn't get Kross.


I believe AEW makes great offers and if Vince beats them, Kahn doesn't counter. I can't blame him, this bubble will burst eventually for WWE with all these huge contracts. Kahn is playing the long game, it is very clear.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> I believe AEW makes great offers and if Vince beats them, Kahn doesn't counter. I can't blame him, this bubble will burst eventually for WWE with all these huge contracts. Kahn is playing the long game, it is very clear.


I wonder if Khan has insider knowledge on WWE business. It's very likely IMO.


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> I believe AEW makes great offers and if Vince beats them, Kahn doesn't counter. I can't blame him, this bubble will burst eventually for WWE with all these huge contracts. Kahn is playing the long game, it is very clear.


I can get behind not giving out contracts they can't afford, but they really need to clean up this year. Right now it's looking like they're only managing to get complete unknowns and super disgruntled WWE talent. 

As for WWE I wouldn't bet on the bubble bursting. Folk have been betting on a down turn that just hasn't happened.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RapShepard said:


> I can get behind not giving out contracts they can't afford, but they really need to clean up this year. Right now it's looking like they're only managing to get complete unknowns and super disgruntled WWE talent.
> 
> As for WWE I wouldn't bet on the bubble bursting. Folk have been betting on a down turn that just hasn't happened.


i mean to the casual viewer, who is NOT completely unknown apart from ex-wwe viewers? I understand you're biased towards WWE, but it's time to remove Vince's dick from your mouth. In fact, I have never heard of Killer Kross until the other month. Looking at the WWE thread about Kross, a lot of other viewers reflect my views.


----------



## RapShepard

optikk sucks said:


> i mean to the casual viewer, who is NOT completely unknown apart from ex-wwe viewers? I understand you're biased towards WWE, but it's time to remove Vince's dick from your mouth. In fact, I have never heard of Killer Kross until the other month. Looking at the WWE thread about Kross, a lot of other viewers reflect my views.


You sound upset and bothered lol. Fact of the matter is there were tons of AEW fans on this very forum no less that wanted Killer Kross in AEW. Truth is in trying to defend AEW by laughing at his contract, you made AEW look shitty in the process. 
He's only a bad signing and no big deal to miss out on because they didn't actually get him.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> I wonder if Khan has insider knowledge on WWE business. It's very likely IMO.


Absolutely he does. For the first time ever, Vince is dealing with a competitor as smart and connected, if not more, than he is.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RapShepard said:


> I can get behind not giving out contracts they can't afford, but they really need to clean up this year. Right now it's looking like they're only managing to get complete unknowns and super disgruntled WWE talent.
> 
> As for WWE I wouldn't bet on the bubble bursting. Folk have been betting on a down turn that just hasn't happened.


Kross is a complete unknown. Damn good prospect but just as unknown as Brian Cage is.

It will be extremely interesting to see where Vince is when it is time to renew these TV deals. He is definintely risking alot but that is why Vince is where he is, he takes risks and isnt scared to fail in order to acheive.


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> Kross is a complete unknown. Damn good prospect but just as unknown as Brian Cage is.
> 
> It will be extremely interesting to see where Vince is when it is time to renew these TV deals. He is definintely risking alot but that is why Vince is where he is, he takes risks and isnt scared to fail in order to acheive.


When I way unknown I'm talking like Statlander, folk that had no buzz prior. The types of wrestlers folk like us aren't even discussing


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> All of these sound like ridiculous hypotheticals on why they're not getting more free agents. It can't just be that maybe AEW isn't attractive enough to people, it has to be that free agents don't have enough courage or AEW just has this super strict hiring policy and thats why they didn't get Kross.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah that sounds like an indictment on AEW. He'd rather go do extra training than sign with the number 2 promotion and immediately be on TV


What about my statement was an excuse? He HAD to go with Scarlett Bordeaux. It’s one thing for a Renee Young to “work across the hall”, so to speak, but it is an entirely different thing for Scarlett to work a WWE locker room alone.

The man chose to be with his lady, and I suspect it still won’t be enough to save their relationship. IMO, that ended the minute she put ink to paper with Vince.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> What about my statement was an excuse? He HAD to go with Scarlett Bordeaux. It’s one thing for a Renee Young to “work across the hall”, so to speak, but it is an entirely different thing for Scarlett to work a WWE locker room alone.
> 
> The man chose to be with his lady, and I suspect it still won’t be enough to save their relationship. IMO, that ended the minute she put ink to paper with Vince.


Im lost, is Scarlett like this gen's Missy Hyatt or Sunny? Known slut?


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> What about my statement was an excuse? He HAD to go with Scarlett Bordeaux. It’s one thing for a Renee Young to “work across the hall”, so to speak, but it is an entirely different thing for Scarlett to work a WWE locker room alone.
> 
> The man chose to be with his lady, and I suspect it still won’t be enough to save their relationship. IMO, that ended the minute she put ink to paper with Vince.


Lol why do you think she's going to leave him


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> All of these sound like ridiculous hypotheticals on why they're not getting more free agents. It can't just be that maybe AEW isn't attractive enough to people, it has to be that free agents don't have enough courage or AEW just has this super strict hiring policy and thats why they didn't get Kross.


Of course they are hypotheticals - I am basing it off a live 2017 Q&A session about what sort of wrestlers they rate

Just shooting the shit mate ?‍♂ 

They should've gotten Kross, no argument there


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Lol why do you think she's going to leave him


The simple answer is Vince.

We’ll see how it goes.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Triple H apparently wants to sign Kazuchika Okada


Triple H watches promotions all over the world and that includes NJPW. He keeps his eyes out on a few top stars from various promotions. Now it seems he is apparently interested in arguably the top star in NJPW, Kazuchika Okada. According to Pro Sports Extra, Triple H has “made it his personal...




wrestling-edge.com





Now, this guy is arguably the best in ring wrestler on the planet right now, so if AEW isn't monitoring his contract and looking to make a serious run of their own at him when the time comes, then they have officially lost their shit.


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> Triple H apparently wants to sign Kazuchika Okada
> 
> 
> Triple H watches promotions all over the world and that includes NJPW. He keeps his eyes out on a few top stars from various promotions. Now it seems he is apparently interested in arguably the top star in NJPW, Kazuchika Okada. According to Pro Sports Extra, Triple H has “made it his personal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestling-edge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, this guy is arguably the best in ring wrestler on the planet right now, so if AEW isn't monitoring his contract and looking to make a serious run of their own at him when the time comes, then they have officially lost their shit.


Just getting in early as an AEW fan if he signs elsewhere.

Okada is shit. He's over the hill and doesn't have the skills needed to be a star in AEW. Now Yano, he's the Japanese talent that would fit AEW perfectly. He's the perfect mix of goofy and average. Definitely the one we should chase. If only he was smaller though.


----------



## Cult03

optikk sucks said:


> In the end, Killer Kross took a developmental deal lol. WWE obviously thought he wasn't good enough for TV yet. The guy is 34. How much longer than he spend in developmental? AEW have probably dodged a bullet.


Haha oh god you AEW sycophants are so predictable. He chose training at NXT over wrestling Marko Stunt in AEW. Just admit it's a loss and move on so we don't need to hear your terrible excuses anymore. He might have signed a developmental deal the same way Ultimo Ninja did. Could be fine tuning him for a few months before a debut. You don't know shit and you're proving that your opinions are wrong more often than not.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Everybody wants to work for the boyhood dream company. WWE is still a bigger platform too, it's fame and clout over creative relevancy I suppose


----------



## Cult03

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Everybody wants to work for the boyhood dream company. WWE is still a bigger platform too, it's fame and clout over creative relevancy I suppose


It's the only viable option if you want relevancy. You can either continue being the big fish in a small pond or you can test how good you can be in a big pond. Plus if you want to be successful in AEW you need to either be part of The Elite or have spent time building your name in the WWE first.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> No, lol, he isn't. Mox was never ever the centerpiece of an entire promotion. You hate AEW but it has a super loyal fan base that is much larger than ANY other company in HISTORY at this point in their growth. Mox is the centerpiece to the whole deal. He just looks so much happier its ridiculous to think he would ever go back to WWE when he doesnt have to. AEW is going nowhere, sorry to disappoint you.


No one else has jumped. Mox got in early when this thing was all potential. I didn't say he would go back to WWE, I said that if his deal comes up now he probably takes the WWE money like _every other person is_.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Im lost, is Scarlett like this gen's Missy Hyatt or Sunny? Known slut?


She's one of the hottest women in wrestling and she's about to enter a locker-room full of young studs with amazing bodies and more money and fame than anyone in the field outside of that company.



El Hammerstone said:


> Triple H apparently wants to sign Kazuchika Okada
> 
> 
> Triple H watches promotions all over the world and that includes NJPW. He keeps his eyes out on a few top stars from various promotions. Now it seems he is apparently interested in arguably the top star in NJPW, Kazuchika Okada. According to Pro Sports Extra, Triple H has “made it his personal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestling-edge.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, this guy is arguably the best in ring wrestler on the planet right now, so if AEW isn't monitoring his contract and looking to make a serious run of their own at him when the time comes, then they have officially lost their shit.


I've said before that I think an NXT/New Japan deal is far more likely than an AEW/New Japan, just because what NXT does is closer, philosophically, to what New Japan presents. It may be better to just net out a working agreement with New Japan if they want Okada at a Takeover or on FOX.



Cult03 said:


> Haha oh god you AEW sycophants are so predictable. He chose training at NXT over wrestling Marko Stunt in AEW. Just admit it's a loss and move on so we don't need to hear your terrible excuses anymore. He might have signed a developmental deal the same way Ultimo Ninja did. Could be fine tuning him for a few months before a debut. You don't know shit and you're proving that your opinions are wrong more often than not.


That's basically it.


----------



## K4L318

this dude a clown. ?


----------



## MontyCora

Cult03 said:


> It's the only viable option if you want relevancy. You can either continue being the big fish in a small pond or you can test how good you can be in a big pond. Plus if you want to be successful in AEW you need to either be part of The Elite or have spent time building your name in the WWE first.


Darby Allin and MFJ say "hi".


----------



## bdon

Yeah. Scarlett oozes sex appeal and is going to have everyone in her ear. Kross will have to keep an eye on her but not a leash. The minute he starts questioning things in the back is the minute that all falls apart.


----------



## kingfrass44

MontyCora said:


> Darby Allin and MFJ say "hi".


mjf yes
Darby Allin no wwe made offer _Cruiserweights_


----------



## LongPig666

The Wood said:


> I've said before that I think an NXT/New Japan deal is far more likely than an AEW/New Japan, just because what NXT does is closer, philosophically, to what New Japan presents. It may be better to just net out a working agreement with New Japan if they want Okada at a Takeover or on FOX.


You seriously think Kazuchika Okada would be a better fit in a "developmental" WWE brand that is losing a ratings war on Wednesday nights to AEW?


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> You seriously think Kazuchika Okada would be a better fit in a "developmental" WWE brand that is losing a ratings war on Wednesday nights to AEW?


Yes. NXT are much closer to pro-wrestling, with logical stories and the like. Do you think he would be better on a show that admits it is fake every week? What would that do to New Japan’s perception in Japan, where they still try to uphold kayfabe?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MontyCora said:


> Darby Allin and MFJ say "hi".


Don’t forget Sammy Guevara.


----------



## El Hammerstone

LongPig666 said:


> You seriously think Kazuchika Okada would be a better fit in a "developmental" WWE brand that is losing a ratings war on Wednesday nights to AEW?


NXT has become the 'wrestling' show of the big 4; as much as I hate to say it, Okada would fit like a glove. Shinsuke Nakamura is a former world champion in the WWE (though he's been badly misused lately), and Okada not only blows Nakamura out of the water talent wise, but he is 7 years younger as well.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> NXT has become the 'wrestling' show of the big 4; as much as I hate to say it, Okada would fit like a glove. Shinsuke Nakamura is a former world champion in the WWE (though he's been badly misused lately), and Okada not only blows Nakamura out of the water talent wise, but he is 7 years younger as well.


The sad thing is the purest pro wrestling show is the worst rated. The majority of western wrestling fans don’t want workrate


----------



## LongPig666

The Wood said:


> Yes. NXT are much closer to pro-wrestling, with logical stories and the like. Do you think he would be better on a show that admits it is fake every week? What would that do to New Japan’s perception in Japan, where they still try to uphold kayfabe?


This weekend I will be watching AEW's Moxley v NJPW's Suzuki and will VERY LIKELY soon be watching Okada, Naito, Ibushi, Tanahashi etc on AEW if the rumours are true. But if you think an Okada v Ohno or Leo Rush is more likely to happen (because AEW is so fake and NXT is more in line with pro-wrestling), rather than an Omega v Okada match then your welcome to your fantasy world.

Of course, its not impossible WWE could sign him but his salary and other earnings would cause issue's, not to mention the shabby way WWE treats the Japanese. Something Japanese wrestlers are very very aware of.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> The sad thing is the purest pro wrestling show is the worst rated. The majority of western wrestling fans don’t want workrate


I'm talking about potential talent, not fans. The brand itself focuses on workrate, but many of the wrestlers on that roster can offer much more than that. The fact that the show is pitched as developmental by the very company they operate under doesn't help matters either. Let these guys do what they do on Raw or SD, without tinkering with their characters (like sticking Drake Maverick with AOP and making them a comedy team, or making Finn Balor an underwear model), and they are going to kill it. 

Trotting guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella out there on a consistent basis is not going to do AEW any favors; perception means a lot.


----------



## elidrakefan76

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm talking about potential talent, not fans. The brand itself focuses on workrate, but many of the wrestlers on that roster can offer much more than that. The fact that the show is pitched as developmental by the very company they operate under doesn't help matters either. Let these guys do what they do on Raw or SD, without tinkering with their characters (like sticking Drake Maverick with AOP and making them a comedy team, or making Finn Balor an underwear model), and they are going to kill it.
> 
> *Trotting guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella out there on a consistent basis is not going to do AEW any favors; perception means a lot.*


I think that guys like Kip Sabian, Marko Stunt, Sonny Kiss and Joey Janella would be useful hands if/when AEW starts doing intergender wrestling because it's believable that women could beat all of those guys up. But otherwise, they are pretty useless.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Man y’all hate Sabian huh? I think he is pretty good, much better than Janella. He definitely belongs.


----------



## imthegame19

TKO Wrestling said:


> Man y’all hate Sabian huh? I think he is pretty good, much better than Janella. He definitely belongs.


Sabian like two inch shorter version of Finn Balor. He's got potential.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> Man y’all hate Sabian huh? I think he is pretty good, much better than Janella. He definitely belongs.


i don’t hate Sabian - the Penelope pairing has legs.

it’s just.... hard to explain..... i feel he should be flying more for his size. He doesn’t do spectacular stuff - like an Ospreay would, or Ricochet. His personality is kinda there - nowhere near as big as Sammy for instance.

he has potential - but its on DARK for me for now


----------



## K4L318

LongPig666 said:


> This weekend I will be watching AEW's Moxley v NJPW's Suzuki and will VERY LIKELY soon be watching Okada, Naito, Ibushi, Tanahashi etc on AEW if the rumours are true. But if you think an Okada v Ohno or Leo Rush is more likely to happen (because AEW is so fake and NXT is more in line with pro-wrestling), rather than an Omega v Okada match then your welcome to your fantasy world.
> 
> Of course, its not impossible WWE could sign him but his salary and other earnings would cause issue's, not to mention the shabby way WWE treats the Japanese. Something Japanese wrestlers are very very aware of.


Okada not a sell out like Thatcher. Peeps need to do research on who he is as a person and how Japan feels about how WWE has treated asians.


----------



## K4L318

bdon said:


> Yeah. Scarlett oozes sex appeal and is going to have everyone in her ear. Kross will have to keep an eye on her but not a leash. The minute he starts questioning things in the back is the minute that all falls apart.


Sarclett will need to show a lot of ass. I dont see her being more than that.


----------



## The Wood

LongPig666 said:


> This weekend I will be watching AEW's Moxley v NJPW's Suzuki and will VERY LIKELY soon be watching Okada, Naito, Ibushi, Tanahashi etc on AEW if the rumours are true. But if you think an Okada v Ohno or Leo Rush is more likely to happen (because AEW is so fake and NXT is more in line with pro-wrestling), rather than an Omega v Okada match then your welcome to your fantasy world.
> 
> Of course, its not impossible WWE could sign him but his salary and other earnings would cause issue's, not to mention the shabby way WWE treats the Japanese. Something Japanese wrestlers are very very aware of.


And how many times has New Japan booked Omega in the past year? You know what New Japan are aware of? AEW fucking them over in public and bragging about it and just expecting a relationship. AEW also have that TNA stank when it comes to certain levels of talent.

What rumors? The ones started by Dave about how nice the AEW guys are? The ones about AEW being able to get whoever they want despite them getting NO ONE of influence since Double or Nothing?

What does a New Japan fan think seeing Okada presented like a fucking ace in New Japan, only to then pick up a magazine and see he’s also in the States flossing with Marko Stunt?

Yes, I am the one in a fantasy world.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm talking about potential talent, not fans. The brand itself focuses on workrate, but many of the wrestlers on that roster can offer much more than that. The fact that the show is pitched as developmental by the very company they operate under doesn't help matters either. Let these guys do what they do on Raw or SD, without tinkering with their characters (like sticking Drake Maverick with AOP and making them a comedy team, or making Finn Balor an underwear model), and they are going to kill it.
> 
> Trotting guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella out there on a consistent basis is not going to do AEW any favors; perception means a lot.


i think you misunderstand my point. A NXT/NJPW would certainly be good for workrate.
HOWEVER, how does that benefit NJPW? if they are trying to expand in America, they need to show what they can do drama/soap wise. Their style of product simply would not gain any traction in America. 
a RAW partnership would benefit both companies. An AEW partnership would benefit AEW more than NJPW.


----------



## El Hammerstone

optikk sucks said:


> i think you misunderstand my point. A NXT/NJPW would certainly be good for workrate.
> HOWEVER, how does that benefit NJPW? if they are trying to expand in America, they need to show what they can do drama/soap wise. *Their style of product simply would not gain any traction in America.*
> a RAW partnership would benefit both companies. An AEW partnership would benefit AEW more than NJPW.


You wouldn't have to turn AEW into a full out workrate product just because you've signed guys who possess that quality; but an overemphasis on comedy and wrestlers who cannot be taken seriously is not going to get AEW anywhere. A lot of top talent in the US have expressed interest in going to NJPW simply because the possibilities for great matches is vast with guys like Okada and others, and this is no small thing considering they would be settling down in an entirely different culture on the other side of the planet, yet many are willing to explore this option despite the extra accommodations, because the talent over there is that intriguing to many wrestlers. 

If that calibre of talent were to come into AEW, many would see it as a much more attractive option. If AEW were to bring in Okada and portray him as a fucking killer, it would put the interest that TNA garnered around 2005-2006 with Samoa Joe to shame. You can still do the odd comedy bit (MJF and Jericho's back and forth, and Moxley swerving the Inner Circle are two good examples), but if the comedy consists of Marko Stunt flossing and making his opponent stumble around like a fool, that will undoubtedly scare a lot of talent away. 

Also, I never said anything about an AEW-NJPW partnership, as great as I think it would be.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> And how many times has New Japan booked Omega in the past year? You know what New Japan are aware of? AEW fucking them over in public and bragging about it and just expecting a relationship. AEW also have that TNA stank when it comes to certain levels of talent.
> 
> What rumors? The ones started by Dave about how nice the AEW guys are? The ones about AEW being able to get whoever they want despite them getting NO ONE of influence since Double or Nothing?
> 
> What does a New Japan fan think seeing Okada presented like a fucking ace in New Japan, only to then pick up a magazine and see he’s also in the States flossing with Marko Stunt?
> 
> Yes, I am the one in a fantasy world.


AEW have fucked over both NJPW and ROH and get away with it.


----------



## Taroostyles

How did they fuck ROH over? By starting a more successful and relevant company that then showed their weakness as a product without the very same talents who left to start said company? Total nonsense. 

Same with NJPW, the talents left NJPW and that was about it. How is that fucking them over?


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> AEW have fucked over both NJPW and ROH and get away with it.


Yeah, I don’t get how people don’t see that. The AEW guys have also been really public with saying how piss-weak New Japan’s offers were. And there’s no way that if New Japan “knew” that Omega and The Bucks were leaving, like Meltzer says they did, that they are caught with their pants down like that and are even still negotiating at that point.

Fumi Saito honestly believed that Omega was going to be involved in the next ten Wrestle Kingdoms. Why would he believe that if he _knew_ Omega was going to be primarily working for a US-based promotion?

Then there’s the common sense stuff about them just taking up more hours of the day with more wrestling and making it harder for New Japan and ROH to make money.

Cody wearing jaguar-themed attire on that Wrestle Kingdom was a nice touch.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> How did they fuck ROH over? By starting a more successful and relevant company that then showed their weakness as a product without the very same talents who left to start said company? Total nonsense.
> 
> Same with NJPW, the talents left NJPW and that was about it. How is that fucking them over?


* Implying that they are staying while setting up a new competitor.

* Using Wrestle Kingdom and New Japan as a platform to launch this competitor.

* Publicly talking about New Japan’s offers being a distant third compared to WWE and AEW, burying them in the marketplace.

* Publicly talking about their dissatisfaction with both New Japan and ROH.

* Stories about New Japan trying to sabotage Kenny Omega.

* Using ROH and New Japan’s resources to run a wrestling show that became used as a pilot for a new promotion without their knowledge.

Respect is a big thing in Japan. Kenny Omega apparently gets this about Japanese culture, but he comes right out and says that they couldn’t rise to the occasion enough to match WWE or AEW. In other words, they had small dicks. Then there’s just the expectation in the air, floating through the wrestling ethos that New Japan is just going to work with them. Look at the “rumors” now.

There’s a reason Kenny Omega is free to work for New Japan but they haven’t called. Guess they’re just upset about nothing because they’re stupid jerks, right? That seems to be the Meltzer story. You’d think they’d have loved to use Omega for the G1, to boost one of their _two_ Tokyo Dome shows. I’m not a fan of the guy, but even I can see the value in that. What is the AEW fanboy perspective on that making any sense?

Given what we know about how Omega left ROH, and given what we know _from him_ about him having open talks with WWE, New Japan and AEW, I don’t think it is unreasonable to speculate that he wasn’t shutting any doors. Meltzer says New Japan knew he was leaving way before. I don’t know how New Japan would know when, by his own admission, Omega didn’t.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

Taroostyles said:


> How did they fuck ROH over? By starting a more successful and relevant company that then showed their weakness as a product without the very same talents who left to start said company? Total nonsense.
> 
> Same with NJPW, the talents left NJPW and that was about it. How is that fucking them over?


Omega has fucked over 2 different RoH offices. 

The first was when Cornette was there (this is the real reason he hates omega).

Kenny lied about having a foot injury to miss a booking just to work another show on the same day. 

And then they did All In using RoH's production, send then tried to get three footage from them after starting AEW.

That is shitty business principals, no one can argue that


----------



## The Wood

Allegedly Omega did have a legit foot injury and made a non-wrestling appearance, but it is shitty to make that non-wrestling appearance with Japan instead of ROH, who you were committed to previously. Cornette says he and Adam Pearce would have understood if he explained himself better and honestly, but he sent the gross photo as a “joke” and just did what he wanted to do without clarifying with the office.

“Hi Adam and Jim,

Unfortunately I’ve injured my foot and won’t be able to wrestle for you this weekend. I’ve attached a doctor’s note. I’d love to make it up to you guys and be there in any sort of non-wrestling/public appearance capacity you need me in.

If you don’t have reason to use me in this sort of role, I am being honored by a Japanese promotion I did some work for, so if you free me up I would love to make the appearance to them to show my gratitude. Perhaps we can work this into an angle when I get back?

Sorry about the timing of this injury and any inconvenience it causes you in rebooking things in my absence.

Kindest regards,

Kenny”

That is how you deal with that situation. You probably get something back like “That’s fine. Sorry about your foot. Go accept the award and we’ll see you back and we’ll have Davey Richards beat you up and piss on it or something.”

You _don’t_ send fake photos and just go and do whatever the fuck you want on your sick day. But it’s possible this grown-ass man of 26 years grew up more. Then you watch Being the Elite and see non-funny gifs of him acting like a git and hear him talk shit about a promotion that gave him more stardom and presented and protected him in a way that they know is the only reason anyone takes him seriously in the first place, and you realize that some people never change.

Imagine an actor that a great director found a way to present so that critics who didn’t know how lost he was, how many takes it would take, or what few instincts they showed thought he was the best actor in the world. Then that actor turns around and trashes your filmography using that reputation you cultivated for them.


----------



## bdon

You gonna cry on us here, @The Wood ?

“LEAVE BRITNEY (Cornette) ALONE!!!”


----------



## FaceTime Heel

The likelihood of Okada leaving NJPW for anyone, whether it be WWE/NXT or AEW, is slim to none. Dont get your hopes up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Nobody wants to see the majority of the NJPW guys come in except the existing AEW fans. Okada could debut next week on AEW with a Hulk Hogan style parade with confetti falling from the ceiling and JR calling him the greatest wrestler in the past decade and your average wrestling fan will not care. Your average fan does not care that Okada and Omega could have a 17 star match on PPV and Hulk Hogan waddling out on Dynamite would mean more to an American audience.

AEW needs to get their hands on another Jericho type signing but it has to be a dude in their prime that they can build around for the next decade. Someone like a Rollins, Reigns, Wyatt is probably their only option right now and I think Rollins would probably be the best fit. Of course there are some great short term options also but I think AEW needs to think about the long game.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> You gonna cry on us here, @The Wood ?
> 
> “LEAVE BRITNEY (Cornette) ALONE!!!”


Um, okay? Are you alright? That seems like quite the irrational outburst from you. 



FaceTime Heel said:


> The likelihood of Okada leaving NJPW for anyone, whether it be WWE/NXT or AEW, is slim to none. Dont get your hopes up.


There’s no way Okada leaves New Japan. Not impossible that New Japan works with another promotion though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mmmm... anybody know the contract status of ZSJ?

they really are missing a strong technical wrestler


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mmmm... anybody know the contract status of ZSJ?
> 
> they really are missing a strong technical wrestler


He signed a multi year deal with NJPW in 2018, how many years I don't know.

But yes, this is the type of talent AEW should be on the lookout for.


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mmmm... anybody know the contract status of ZSJ?
> 
> they really are missing a strong technical wrestler


I'm curious to see him and Moxley In New Japan. With how thin he is I don't know if he would get over with US fans on weekly tv tho. Like Moxley looks he he can destroy him with one punch.


----------



## Jeripunk99

The need to sign Will Osprey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## The Wood

Will Ospreay is likely to stay in New Japan for a long while yet.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Jeripunk99 said:


> The need to sign Will Osprey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


He has said in an interview that he would never sign with AEW but he said the same about WWE. However, his girl is a fulltime talent in AEW and he said she is very happy with them. He does have a relationship with the Elite guys. He was on BTE early on and help film some of there skits like Marty and Hangman before they became cast members. So I think he will eventually.


----------



## imthegame19

Osprey is signed with New Japan through 2024 I read.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody wants to see the majority of the NJPW guys come in except the existing AEW fans. Okada could debut next week on AEW with a Hulk Hogan style parade with confetti falling from the ceiling and JR calling him the greatest wrestler in the past decade and your average wrestling fan will not care. Your average fan does not care that Okada and Omega could have a 17 star match on PPV and Hulk Hogan waddling out on Dynamite would mean more to an American audience.
> 
> AEW needs to get their hands on another Jericho type signing but it has to be a dude in their prime that they can build around for the next decade. Someone like a Rollins, Reigns, Wyatt is probably their only option right now and I think Rollins would probably be the best fit. Of course there are some great short term options also but I think AEW needs to think about the long game.


The only top 40 WWE star they could realistically get this side of 2024 is Rusev. Out of the three you mention, Wyatt is the better on promos/creative but the gimmick belongs to Vince. In an ideal world John Cena would shock the world by coming in for a stint...


----------



## the_flock

Matt Hardy has been posting a hell of a lot of TNA/Impact posts on social media lately. Perhaps he may dodge AEW and return to Impact/ROH.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Matt Hardy has been posting a hell of a lot of TNA/Impact posts on social media lately. Perhaps he may dodge AEW and return to Impact/ROH.


Yeah AEW only got so much room to sign new people. If they think their getting Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Brian Cage(when healthy) and Revivial(would could cause tag team going into singles) I could see them AEW passing on Hardy. But who maybe Hardy doing it to throw people off. So they don't expect him to show up in AEW. I guess we will see where these guys go over next month or so.


----------



## Jeripunk99

Who the fuck wants to see Matt Hardy ...no thanks


----------



## cai1981

AEW does not have the budget and financial flexibility WWE does. 99% of the established stars and those already in WWE's doors are going to take the GUARANTEED money thrown at them even if it is to sit in catering! AEW can celebrate all they want beating WWE's Minor League (NXT) almost every week (just barely most times), but in the big picture, they are not even drawing half of RAW and Smackdown's audience and do not have a network with 90% of the best moments in wrestling history (even if some of it is watered down with dubbed music and edits).

Sooner or later, Vince will pull the trigger on consistently putting more star power on Wednesdays as well as signing AEW talent when their contracts are up. We have seen a few crossovers from WWE to AEW...Jericho is big, but at almost 50, he is not a big loss. Moxley, PAC, Hager...are not going to move the needle. When AEW talent starts going the other way, they will have a very hard time trying to keep pace only by opening the door for Indy Darlings and "stars" from low rate promotions (Impact, ROH)!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

cai1981 said:


> AEW does not have the budget and financial flexibility WWE does. 99% of the established stars and those already in WWE's doors are going to take the GUARANTEED money thrown at them even if it is to sit in catering! AEW can celebrate all they want beating WWE's Minor League (NXT) almost every week (just barely most times), but in the big picture, they are not even drawing half of RAW and Smackdown's audience and do not have a network with 90% of the best moments in wrestling history (even if some of it is watered down with dubbed music and edits).
> 
> Sooner or later, Vince will pull the trigger on consistently putting more star power on Wednesdays as well as signing AEW talent when their contracts are up. We have seen a few crossovers from WWE to AEW...Jericho is big, but at almost 50, he is not a big loss. Moxley, PAC, Hager...are not going to move the needle. When AEW talent starts going the other way, they will have a very hard time trying to keep pace only by opening the door for Indy Darlings and "stars" from low rate promotions (Impact, ROH)!


Don't hold your breathe lol. AEW isn't going anywhere but up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I would like to add my voice to the ‘thanks, but no thanks dawg’ contingent on Matt Hardy


----------



## Bloody Warpath

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I would like to add my voice to the ‘thanks, but no thanks dawg’ contingent on Matt Hardy


I feel he would be better suited behind the scenes, whether it be as an agent or creative, regardless of what company that he may be with. His mind is saying he still wants to go on the ring, but his body is arguing with it. You can see how he labors just to walk. He has a lot of mileage on his body. There is nothing wrong with walking away from the ring. He has three young boys that he needs a good quality of life with.


----------



## bdon

cai1981 said:


> AEW does not have the budget and financial flexibility WWE does. 99% of the established stars and those already in WWE's doors are going to take the GUARANTEED money thrown at them even if it is to sit in catering! AEW can celebrate all they want beating WWE's Minor League (NXT) almost every week (just barely most times), but in the big picture, they are not even drawing half of RAW and Smackdown's audience and do not have a network with 90% of the best moments in wrestling history (even if some of it is watered down with dubbed music and edits).
> 
> Sooner or later, Vince will pull the trigger on consistently putting more star power on Wednesdays as well as signing AEW talent when their contracts are up. We have seen a few crossovers from WWE to AEW...Jericho is big, but at almost 50, he is not a big loss. Moxley, PAC, Hager...are not going to move the needle. When AEW talent starts going the other way, they will have a very hard time trying to keep pace only by opening the door for Indy Darlings and "stars" from low rate promotions (Impact, ROH)!


I was reading a logical take until I seen you suggest they barely beat NXT most weeks. Only 4 times have the numbers been close. Nice try.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I would like to add my voice to the ‘thanks, but no thanks dawg’ contingent on Matt Hardy


Count me in on the no Matt Hardy movement. I have ZERO interest in him.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> Don't hold your breathe lol. AEW isn't going anywhere but up.


He brings up a really good point though. Yeah, AEW has Jericho but realistically at 49 years old how much longer does he have left? I'd say maybe 3-5 years before he calls it a day. WWE will come knocking for the talent in AEW that gets over and put them on NXT and they would probably be happy to overpay for someone based simply on potential to be a future star in the WWE.

Obviously Cody and The Bucks remain but what about Omega? He couldn't be too happy about being just another guy on the AEW roster and I'm sure NJPW would be happy to have him back. The bright lights and main events of New Japan will one day call his name again and it'd be hard to argue against him going.

If this happens and WWE really wants to hurt AEW you very well could see AEW being Cody, The Bucks, Moxley some higher end indy guys and ageing veterans such as Van Dam.


----------



## The Wood

cai1981 said:


> AEW does not have the budget and financial flexibility WWE does. 99% of the established stars and those already in WWE's doors are going to take the GUARANTEED money thrown at them even if it is to sit in catering! AEW can celebrate all they want beating WWE's Minor League (NXT) almost every week (just barely most times), but in the big picture, they are not even drawing half of RAW and Smackdown's audience and do not have a network with 90% of the best moments in wrestling history (even if some of it is watered down with dubbed music and edits).
> 
> Sooner or later, Vince will pull the trigger on consistently putting more star power on Wednesdays as well as signing AEW talent when their contracts are up. We have seen a few crossovers from WWE to AEW...Jericho is big, but at almost 50, he is not a big loss. Moxley, PAC, Hager...are not going to move the needle. When AEW talent starts going the other way, they will have a very hard time trying to keep pace only by opening the door for Indy Darlings and "stars" from low rate promotions (Impact, ROH)!


This is an excellent take. I haven’t really thought about AEW talent leaving, although JR is one I’ve been anticipating for a while, but it’s something that could inevitably happen.

If talent ask for their release, are AEW going to say “no?” The WWE caught so much shit for that. They just aren’t trying to play babyface. If MJF decides he wants $750k a year pretty soon, does he request his release and take a shot? If MJF has a contract expiring with MLW, is MJF allowed for negotiate with WWE in the basis of that, or him clearly not being exclusive?

I am _not_ suggesting that MJF is unhappy. People love to lie on here. I am running it as a hypothetical business decision. 



bdon said:


> I was reading a logical take until I seen you suggest they barely beat NXT most weeks. Only 4 times have the numbers been close. Nice try.


*It is only definitive that AEW have beaten NXT four times.

950k and 770k are pretty fucking close. The XFL’s average was down that NXT rating from its peak. A 6.4 _rating_ is being reported for Seattle/Tacoma alone. I don’t know if they meant to say “million viewers.” Assuming they did, that’s a difference of 3.1 _million_. This is what I mean when I say that people need to be careful about taking the ratings too seriously and getting excited because AEW “wins” by an arm. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> He brings up a really good point though. Yeah, AEW has Jericho but realistically at 49 years old how much longer does he have left? I'd say maybe 3-5 years before he calls it a day. WWE will come knocking for the talent in AEW that gets over and put them on NXT and they would probably be happy to overpay for someone based simply on potential to be a future star in the WWE.
> 
> Obviously Cody and The Bucks remain but what about Omega? He couldn't be too happy about being just another guy on the AEW roster and I'm sure NJPW would be happy to have him back. The bright lights and main events of New Japan will one day call his name again and it'd be hard to argue against him going.
> 
> If this happens and WWE really wants to hurt AEW you very well could see AEW being Cody, The Bucks, Moxley some higher end indy guys and ageing veterans such as Van Dam.


I know you were just using him as an example, but I think Van Dam is the guy that coined the phrase “All Petite Wrestling.” He doesn’t give a fuck to play nice and doesn’t mind being one of the few guys to come out and call the promotion a bit of a joke.

But overall your point is correct. This early nepotism and silly business has soured a lot of serious professionals on jumping, and that indicates to other professionals that they shouldn’t. This is why those early signings were important and why having those guys who are “just jobbers, it’s not like they’re going for the World Title” is detrimental.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> He brings up a really good point though. Yeah, AEW has Jericho but realistically at 49 years old how much longer does he have left? I'd say maybe 3-5 years before he calls it a day. WWE will come knocking for the talent in AEW that gets over and put them on NXT and they would probably be happy to overpay for someone based simply on potential to be a future star in the WWE.
> 
> Obviously Cody and The Bucks remain but what about Omega? He couldn't be too happy about being just another guy on the AEW roster and I'm sure NJPW would be happy to have him back. The bright lights and main events of New Japan will one day call his name again and it'd be hard to argue against him going.
> 
> If this happens and WWE really wants to hurt AEW you very well could see AEW being Cody, The Bucks, Moxley some higher end indy guys and ageing veterans such as Van Dam.


Depends on whether the TV rights bubble bursts for WWE. Their other areas of business are in constant decline - ratings, PPV/network, total live attendance, merchandise, video games.

It was already arguable whether USA and FOX had paid way too much for that brand and its 2-2.5 million viewers/0.7 demo. TNT has shown that any reasonably well booked wrestling show can deliver 900k/0.35 at a fraction of the cost. If FOX gets bored and/or USA plays hard ball in 2023 then WWE will be looking at one hell of a cull.

Unlikely at the minute but I'd not rule out AEW working with the likes of NJPW, ROH, NWA and Impact. Combined that equals one huge array of talent without having to sign away millions away in long term contracts.The benefits of being a TV based promotion.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> This is an excellent take. I haven’t really thought about AEW talent leaving, although JR is one I’ve been anticipating for a while, but it’s something that could inevitably happen.
> 
> If talent ask for their release, are AEW going to say “no?” The WWE caught so much shit for that. They just aren’t trying to play babyface. If MJF decides he wants $750k a year pretty soon, does he request his release and take a shot? If MJF has a contract expiring with MLW, is MJF allowed for negotiate with WWE in the basis of that, or him clearly not being exclusive?
> 
> I am _not_ suggesting that MJF is unhappy. People love to lie on here. I am running it as a hypothetical business decision.
> 
> 
> 
> *It is only definitive that AEW have beaten NXT four times.
> 
> 950k and 770k are pretty fucking close. The XFL’s average was down that NXT rating from its peak. A 6.4 _rating_ is being reported for Seattle/Tacoma alone. I don’t know if they meant to say “million viewers.” Assuming they did, that’s a difference of 3.1 _million_. This is what I mean when I say that people need to be careful about taking the ratings too seriously and getting excited because AEW “wins” by an arm.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you were just using him as an example, but I think Van Dam is the guy that coined the phrase “All Petite Wrestling.” He doesn’t give a fuck to play nice and doesn’t mind being one of the few guys to come out and call the promotion a bit of a joke.
> 
> But overall your point is correct. This early nepotism and silly business has soured a lot of serious professionals on jumping, and that indicates to other professionals that they shouldn’t. This is why those early signings were important and why having those guys who are “just jobbers, it’s not like they’re going for the World Title” is detrimental.


Dude, stop with the margin of error BS. It was only close 4 weeks either direction. The rest of the time, it has required 10% one way and 10% the other direction, which is a 20% margin of error. Stop.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Dude, stop with the margin of error BS. It was only close 4 weeks either direction. The rest of the time, it has required 10% one way and 10% the other direction, which is a 20% margin of error. Stop.


It’s not bullshit. That’s how individual margins of error work. The numbers can be off either way by 10%. Soz.

As an amendment to my earlier post: They were obviously talking a share re: Seattle. That was my morning brain. My bad there.

Lol at thinking an estimated 180k isn’t even close though. The WWF and WCW in 1999? That wasn’t even close. If AEW drew 12 viewers and NXT drew 9, would you say that’s close?


----------



## bdon

Close sure.

Close enough that the 10% margin of error you keep harping on and on about could plausibly mean NXT’s been winning a lot as you keep suggesting? Fuck no. Shut that shit up. Be logical.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Close sure.
> 
> Close enough that the 10% margin of error you keep harping on and on about could plausibly mean NXT’s been winning a lot as you keep suggesting? Fuck no. Shut that shit up. Be logical.


I haven’t been suggesting they have been winning, but it’s certainly plausible and the numbers are low enough and close enough together that it is insignificant and indistinguishable.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I haven’t been suggesting they have been winning, but it’s certainly plausible and the numbers are low enough and close enough together that it is insignificant and indistinguishable.


No. It isn’t plausible that AEW’s margin of error has been 10% less and NXT’s has been 10% more.

Do you want to discuss things logically, or are you hell bent on just trying to spin everything in a negative light. NXT won definitely. They were close 3 weeks that were considered AEW wins, a tie another. In those weeks, your 10% margin of error would be very likely and possible to skew things one way or the other.

If you don’t want to wax intellectual, then please say so and save me the time from trying to discuss anything with you further.


----------



## DaSlacker

What the hell happened to television and wrestling? Debating viewership margins which would have been poor in 1990, when fewer homes had access to these channels.

TNT are happy with the demo, which eclipses USA's demo and places the channel high in the cable overnight again. A on paper win for WarnerMedia in the AT&T vs ViacomCBS vs Comcast feud.


----------



## Alexander_G

Chip Chipperson said:


> Obviously Cody and The Bucks remain but what about Omega? He couldn't be too happy about being just another guy on the AEW roster and I'm sure NJPW would be happy to have him back. The bright lights and main events of New Japan will one day call his name again and it'd be hard to argue against him going.


What more can Omega do in NJPW? He's already done everything there, beat the best there. People were whining that his last run as champ there was boring and wanting him to move on to something different. Now he should move back? He's not knocking everything out of the park so now he's just another guy?


----------



## TD Stinger

Alexander_G said:


> *What more can Omega do in NJPW?* He's already done everything there, beat the best there. People were whining that his last run as champ there was boring and wanting him to move on to something different. Now he should move back? He's not knocking everything out of the park so now he's just another guy?


1. Have a true match with Ibushi
2. Win a WK main event

.....That's about it.


----------



## imthegame19

DaSlacker said:


> What the hell happened to television and wrestling? Debating viewership margins which would have been poor in 1990, when fewer homes had access to these channels.
> 
> TNT are happy with the demo, which eclipses USA's demo and places the channel high in the cable overnight again. A on paper win for WarnerMedia in the AT&T vs ViacomCBS vs Comcast feud.


It's cable tv numbers in general are down. Cord cutting, social media and streaming hurt cable tv ratings.


AEW is TNT highest rated show besides NBA. AEW even beats NBA head to head some weeks when games are on TNT. They also do better then Thursday NBA games on TNT sometimes.


I'll admit I don't pay for cable. I cut the cord 3 years ago. I have tv antenna and firestick. My parents have cable and use their log in and sign into the apps to watch live tv. Many people did the same thing like I have. So 900,000 viewers is like getting 2 million viewers 10 years ago. Just like 2 million viewers is like 4 million 10 years ago. It's not just wrestling it's all tv.


----------



## Dondada78

captainzombie said:


> MVP just wrestled his last match in WWE on Monday night, while he is 46, I think AEW can use a veteran like him even if its on a year deal. He is in even better shape now than he was in Impact a few years ago, and is really good on the mic.


When AEW started I said I would like to see MVP pass his gimmick down to a tag team that he was paired with in a couple of indies., Locked & Loaded/ Mane Event (Duke Dawkins/ Ganon Jones Jr.). They are big, agile and can wrestle. I would have thought Impact/ AEW/ ROH/ NWA/ MLW or WWE would reach out to these guys already. 

There's still talent out there just got there just gotta find them before WWE does. I keep saying the ideal guys are Mane Event, Edge Stone, Lokomotiv Ivan Markov, Bill Collier and Moonshine Ryan Mantel


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> No. It isn’t plausible that AEW’s margin of error has been 10% less and NXT’s has been 10% more.
> 
> Do you want to discuss things logically, or are you hell bent on just trying to spin everything in a negative light. NXT won definitely. They were close 3 weeks that were considered AEW wins, a tie another. In those weeks, your 10% margin of error would be very likely and possible to skew things one way or the other.
> 
> If you don’t want to wax intellectual, then please say so and save me the time from trying to discuss anything with you further.


Logic dictates that the numbers can fall anywhere in that 10% margin of error. That’s what that means lol. You just don’t like it.


----------



## bdon

Is it likely, @The Wood ? Put up or shut up time. Is it fucking likely that NXT has actually been winning the ratings war since you want to keep screaming about the 10% margin of victory which has often times required AEW to be at the fringes of the 10% to the negative side and for NXT to be at the fringes of the 10% to the positive.

You’re going to say that there is likely a 20% fucking swing on the Wednesday Night ratings!? Say it with your chest this time. Either you believe the bullshit, or you’re just painting the narrative you want.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Is it likely, @The Wood ? Put up or shut up time. Is it fucking likely that NXT has actually been winning the ratings war since you want to keep screaming about the 10% margin of victory which has often times required AEW to be at the fringes of the 10% to the negative side and for NXT to be at the fringes of the 10% to the positive.
> 
> You’re going to say that there is likely a 20% fucking swing on the Wednesday Night ratings!? Say it with your chest this time. Either you believe the bullshit, or you’re just painting the narrative you want.


I didn't say that it was likely. It's not a point about likelihood. It's a point about a) the flexibility of the ratings and b) how narrow that fucking gap is. 950k and 750k are really close together and a good promotional push away. WWE are not getting _killed_ like AEW fanboys would have you believe.

And, as I have always said, there is the WWE Network too. Not all the people who are watching both these shows are going to watch them on the same night. If they watched it on the WWE Network, it's possible they still do, almost to further justify the Network itself. I'm sure that number isn't _huge_, but I bet you it's far more than 0, so yes, it is quite possible that NXT has been the most watched show far more than people think (especially when you factor in international presence). 

Yeah, that's all speculative, but it's logical.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> I didn't say that it was likely. It's not a point about likelihood. It's a point about a) the flexibility of the ratings and b) how narrow that fucking gap is. 950k and 750k are really close together and a good promotional push away. WWE are not getting _killed_ like AEW fanboys would have you believe.
> 
> *And, as I have always said, there is the WWE Network too*. Not all the people who are watching both these shows are going to watch them on the same night. If they watched it on the WWE Network, it's possible they still do, almost to further justify the Network itself. I'm sure that number isn't _huge_, but I bet you it's far more than 0, so yes, *it is quite possible that NXT has been the most watched show far more than people think* (especially when you factor in international presence).


I am pretty sure you didn't want to consider the AEW DVR scores few weeks ago.
I found an article online, claiming both shows were doing pretty good, and even better on "Replay". 
But AEW seems to be the winner again. 

I think we debated this few weeks ago, but let me repeat it. 
I think NXT is losing this _"war",_ not because the show is better or worst than the AEW's one, but because the WWE consider the yellow brand as a B-show. And I am pretty sure a lot of WWE viewers consider the same, and prefer to keep watching the main brands, judging NXT as a bush league. 

It is weird, but that remind the 2007-2009 TNA, having a better show than SD&Raw, but people not desiring to tune in because the product was not professional enough. 
Anyway, winner or loser, NXT is impacting on the AEW audience/expansion, and I am pretty sure HHH is happy with that.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I didn't say that it was likely. It's not a point about likelihood. It's a point about a) the flexibility of the ratings and b) how narrow that fucking gap is. 950k and 750k are really close together and a good promotional push away. WWE are not getting _killed_ like AEW fanboys would have you believe.
> 
> And, as I have always said, there is the WWE Network too. Not all the people who are watching both these shows are going to watch them on the same night. If they watched it on the WWE Network, it's possible they still do, almost to further justify the Network itself. I'm sure that number isn't _huge_, but I bet you it's far more than 0, so yes, it is quite possible that NXT has been the most watched show far more than people think (especially when you factor in international presence).
> 
> Yeah, that's all speculative, but it's logical.


Then why present the argument in such a negative manner, man, other than to get under the skin of the diehards? No matter how much you may piss me off, I do enjoy your persoective, because it usually comes from a place of logical reasoning.

But you seem to have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to AEW and seem hellbent on skewing the polar opposite direction just to combat the overly positive fans that sometimes label ME a hater.


----------



## The Wood

French Connection said:


> I am pretty sure you didn't want to consider the AEW DVR scores few weeks ago.
> I found an article online, claiming both shows were doing pretty good, and even better on "Replay".
> But AEW seems to be the winner again.
> 
> I think we debated this few weeks ago, but let me repeat it.
> I think NXT is losing this _"war",_ not because the show is better or worst than the AEW's one, but because the WWE consider the yellow brand as a B-show. And I am pretty sure a lot of WWE viewers consider the same, and prefer to keep watching the main brands, judging NXT as a bush league.
> 
> It is weird, but that remind the 2007-2009 TNA, having a better show than SD&Raw, but people not desiring to tune in because the product was not professional enough.
> Anyway, winner or loser, NXT is impacting on the AEW audience/expansion, and I am pretty sure HHH is happy with that.


I can see how that would be part of it. But I think more important than that is just fatigue. It is hours six and seven of the WWE week. It's just too much. But in addition to that, it doesn't have the fresh car smell or political advantage an AEW does by being not WWE. 



bdon said:


> Then why present the argument in such a negative manner, man, other than to get under the skin of the diehards? No matter how much you may piss me off, I do enjoy your persoective, because it usually comes from a place of logical reasoning.
> 
> But you seem to have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to AEW and seem hellbent on skewing the polar opposite direction just to combat the overly positive fans that sometimes label ME a hater.


I don't think it is negative. If you perceive it that way, it's on you. But it's just empirically uncertain that AEW has definitely been watched by more people than NXT, and it's silly to treat an estimated slight victory like they're mopping the floor with the machine. That's all. 

I admire optimism, but some things just aren't true, and there is a lot of myth around AEW and what they've done that I just feel should be busted. Especially since some of their mistakes could come back to not only hurt them in time, but the industry as a whole. Because if AEW fails then what chance is there of another promotion. 

So people being over the moon about 950k viewers each week, which I look across and see the ratings for other wrestling, is what it is, but there are many ways to read it. You can compare it to other shows that don't get that much and be stoked about it, or you can see how it's probably not as crash hot as it should be and that it's actually quite a precarious position, because it could burst and hemorrhage really quick. You can see $45 million as an amazing amount of money, or you can see it as money left on the table. You can take it one day at a time or you can look years into the future. 

I don't mind if people want to be happy just enjoying the show. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I can see how this show isn't capturing new fans and how it could all go off the rails very soon. I don't think it's negative, I think it's realistic.


----------



## bdon

No, that it isn’t capturing new fans and the bubble could burst and all of that we agree.

But to try and shit on AEW and spin the possibility of a 20% swing in the ratings just isn’t likely. You know I’ve said all along that you’re right about most of the AEW stuff, but it is intellectually dishonest to try and argue about a possible 20% swing.

You want to say the numbers don’t mean much given how small the sample size is, you won’t hear a word from me. You want to say they aren’t growing the fan base, you won’t hear a word from me. That suggested 20% swing does rub me the wrong way as it just isn’t at all likely.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> No, that it isn’t capturing new fans and the bubble could burst and all of that we agree.
> 
> But to try and shit on AEW and spin the possibility of a 20% swing in the ratings just isn’t likely. You know I’ve said all along that you’re right about most of the AEW stuff, but it is intellectually dishonest to try and argue about a possible 20% swing.
> 
> You want to say the numbers don’t mean much given how small the sample size is, you won’t hear a word from me. You want to say they aren’t growing the fan base, you won’t hear a word from me. That suggested 20% swing does rub me the wrong way as it just isn’t at all likely.


It's not likely. Especially not every week. But there's a difference between it being unlikely and not being possible. It is definitely within the realm of possibility. I mean, look at how wrong polls get it wrong. The Nielsen ratings are basically just a poll as to what shows they think people watch. There isn't much chance they get it right. It's much more likely that the Nielsen numbers are wrong than they are spot-on. 

But, I do think the general trend can be observed, and yeah, AEW seems to be doing better lately. But those one that were neck-and-neck? What do those numbers really mean? Do people really think that AEW beat NXT by 7,000 viewers? Do they take it that literally? Whenever you're within that margin of error, I'm not going to make any sort of declarative statement about one show being vastly more popular than the other, because that's not how you use that data. One show being consistently higher than the other would suggest that it is more popular, but it's only slight and you can't really believe that the difference between 920k and 750k is something that WWE should be concerned about or that AEW should feel really confident about. That's the point.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> It's not likely. Especially not every week. But there's a difference between it being unlikely and not being possible. It is definitely within the realm of possibility. I mean, look at how wrong polls get it wrong. The Nielsen ratings are basically just a poll as to what shows they think people watch. There isn't much chance they get it right. It's much more likely that the Nielsen numbers are wrong than they are spot-on.
> 
> But, I do think the general trend can be observed, and yeah, AEW seems to be doing better lately. But those one that were neck-and-neck? What do those numbers really mean? Do people really think that AEW beat NXT by 7,000 viewers? Do they take it that literally? Whenever you're within that margin of error, I'm not going to make any sort of declarative statement about one show being vastly more popular than the other, because that's not how you use that data. One show being consistently higher than the other would suggest that it is more popular, but it's only slight and you can't really believe that the difference between 920k and 750k is something that WWE should be concerned about or that AEW should feel really confident about. That's the point.


We’re getting somewhere. Thank you for dropping the character and just talking.

Yes, it has always been possible given the margin of error caveat, even if unlikely. And I have specifically spoke about the 4 weeks when the numbers were neck and neck, noting those are instances where I felt the 10% rule was a fair point.

Anyways, I appreciate you not dying on the 10% hill you’ve been on. That shit was starting to piss me off. Heh.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> I didn't say that it was likely. It's not a point about likelihood. It's a point about a) the flexibility of the ratings and b) how narrow that fucking gap is. 950k and 750k are really close together and a good promotional push away. WWE are not getting _killed_ like AEW fanboys would have you believe.
> 
> And, as I have always said, there is the WWE Network too. Not all the people who are watching both these shows are going to watch them on the same night. If they watched it on the WWE Network, it's possible they still do, almost to further justify the Network itself. I'm sure that number isn't _huge_, but I bet you it's far more than 0, so yes, it is quite possible that NXT has been the most watched show far more than people think (especially when you factor in international presence).
> 
> Yeah, that's all speculative, but it's logical.


You backed a loser - if only you could go back in time & choose aew you wouldn't have to make up & post such shit


----------



## imthegame19

French Connection said:


> I am pretty sure you didn't want to consider the AEW DVR scores few weeks ago.
> I found an article online, claiming both shows were doing pretty good, and even better on "Replay".
> But AEW seems to be the winner again.
> 
> I think we debated this few weeks ago, but let me repeat it.
> I think NXT is losing this _"war",_ not because the show is better or worst than the AEW's one, but because the WWE consider the yellow brand as a B-show. And I am pretty sure a lot of WWE viewers consider the same, and prefer to keep watching the main brands, judging NXT as a bush league.
> 
> It is weird, but that remind the 2007-2009 TNA, having a better show than SD&Raw, but people not desiring to tune in because the product was not professional enough.
> Anyway, winner or loser, NXT is impacting on the AEW audience/expansion, and I am pretty sure HHH is happy with that.



I think AEW is winning the way because of Jon Moxley, Chris Jericho and Cody Rhodes. They usually appear in the highest rated segments and get the most increased viewers. So that tells people are turning off to watch NXT, NBA or whatever to watch them in AEW. 


I think NXT made it close for that month stretch. Because they had NXT guys on Raw and Smackdown. While they Raw/Smackdown guys were on NXT. With WWE putting over NXT as superior brand at Survivor Series. 


Once the buzz from all that wore off. People realized oh man bad ass Jon Moxley and Jericho are feuding for the title. While Cody feud with MJF really got going. With these Bash at Beach shows and one from a cruise. While NXT was just same old NXT. 


It will be interesting if WWE does another roster shake up after Mania. If they really want to compete with AEW. They will need move some stars around. Like put Ciampa and Lee on Raw. With AJ Styles or Seth Rollins and Owens or Joe going to NXT. But I think they will be scared Raw ratings will drop if they do stuff like that.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> *We’re getting somewhere. Thank you for dropping the character and just talking.*
> 
> Yes, it has always been possible given the margin of error caveat, even if unlikely. And I have specifically spoke about the 4 weeks when the numbers were neck and neck, noting those are instances where I felt the 10% rule was a fair point.
> 
> Anyways, I appreciate you not dying on the 10% hill you’ve been on. That shit was starting to piss me off. Heh.


See, you just had to go and be a condescending ass about it. There is no character, mate. I say what I bloody well mean lol. Honestly? I don't really care if you've spoken about 4 weeks where the numbers were neck-and-neck or not. I haven't accused you of not, to my knowledge. My point has always been that the ratings, as AEW fans interpret them, are kind of bullshit. It's not a hill to die on, it's just a factual fucking statement.



Pippen94 said:


> You backed a loser - if only you could go back in time & choose aew you wouldn't have to make up & post such shit


This says something about the AEW fanboy mentality. A lot about it, actually. You actually see this as having those sort of stakes. It projects a lot of emotional stakes that you've got to make up because it's your team "4lyf."

I did back AEW out the gate. One of the most vocal supporters of it on here. It reinvigorated my love for pro-wrestling. I talked about how fucking amazing it is that we're going to get hundreds of millions injected into wrestling outside WWE. The term I used was "post-Vince world." Then they cancelled Pac and Page for reasons that didn't make any sense. Hang on. Then they opened with a gimmick Battle Royal on their pre-show for a World Title shot that featured WCW's Glacier freezing people. Oh dear. Since then they haven't signed a single big name (Moxley came in that night). So many of their promises have been exposed as bullshit. They lost me. 

I don't follow NXT as ardently as most people on here probably think. It is obviously the more sensible product, but it's not exactly the most exciting thing in the world. Honestly, I think it's going too slow. Cole vs. Ciampa has been the project since the start and we're only getting to it now. A slow-burn is good and all, but we haven't had a proper Takeover with focus and pay-offs yet, and this shit really started in September. But to say I've "backed a losing horse?" Dude, NXT is part of WWE which is signing deals for hundreds of millions of dollars -- possibly billions if the move of PPVs to other channels is true. That's the losing horse? Try harder. 

If WWE wants, they will just make Wednesday the night for PPVs and cycle through different themes smashing AEW into the dust. They've got the sheer talent to do that. As I've said, if WWE really wanted to kill AEW fast, NXT would have opened with Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet and closed with Daniel Bryan setting something up with Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin would be mentoring someone to go against a heel coach. Edge would have shown up there to work off the ring rust. 

Anyway, this is a thread about AEW missing out on talent, and like they lost me, I think they lost the confidence of the wrestling community that wants to see this shit taken seriously and see stars created. There's _still_ a dependency to lean on Vince and basically sell your soul for half-a-decade, and that's a god damn shame.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> See, you just had to go and be a condescending ass about it. There is no character, mate. I say what I bloody well mean lol. Honestly? I don't really care if you've spoken about 4 weeks where the numbers were neck-and-neck or not. I haven't accused you of not, to my knowledge. My point has always been that the ratings, as AEW fans interpret them, are kind of bullshit. It's not a hill to die on, it's just a factual fucking statement.
> 
> 
> 
> This says something about the AEW fanboy mentality. A lot about it, actually. You actually see this as having those sort of stakes. It projects a lot of emotional stakes that you've got to make up because it's your team "4lyf."
> 
> I did back AEW out the gate. One of the most vocal supporters of it on here. It reinvigorated my love for pro-wrestling. I talked about how fucking amazing it is that we're going to get hundreds of millions injected into wrestling outside WWE. The term I used was "post-Vince world." Then they cancelled Pac and Page for reasons that didn't make any sense. Hang on. Then they opened with a gimmick Battle Royal on their pre-show for a World Title shot that featured WCW's Glacier freezing people. Oh dear. Since then they haven't signed a single big name (Moxley came in that night). So many of their promises have been exposed as bullshit. They lost me.
> 
> I don't follow NXT as ardently as most people on here probably think. It is obviously the more sensible product, but it's not exactly the most exciting thing in the world. Honestly, I think it's going too slow. Cole vs. Ciampa has been the project since the start and we're only getting to it now. A slow-burn is good and all, but we haven't had a proper Takeover with focus and pay-offs yet, and this shit really started in September. But to say I've "backed a losing horse?" Dude, NXT is part of WWE which is signing deals for hundreds of millions of dollars -- possibly billions if the move of PPVs to other channels is true. That's the losing horse? Try harder.
> 
> If WWE wants, they will just make Wednesday the night for PPVs and cycle through different themes smashing AEW into the dust. They've got the sheer talent to do that. As I've said, if WWE really wanted to kill AEW fast, NXT would have opened with Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet and closed with Daniel Bryan setting something up with Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin would be mentoring someone to go against a heel coach. Edge would have shown up there to work off the ring rust.
> 
> Anyway, this is a thread about AEW missing out on talent, and like they lost me, I think they lost the confidence of the wrestling community that wants to see this shit taken seriously and see stars created. There's _still_ a dependency to lean on Vince and basically sell your soul for half-a-decade, and that's a god damn shame.


You also backed xfl - beyond help


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You also backed xfl - beyond help


Huh? I don't know or care about football. What do you mean "backed" it? Are you talking about me talking about the ratings and how things can actually get good ratings in 2020, despite what people say about 900k being AMAZING? Those are facts, brah.


----------



## Shepard

Alright, this seems to have strayed from the original topic. Either keep it relevant or end it now.


----------



## reyfan

Bloody Warpath said:


> I feel he would be better suited behind the scenes, whether it be as an agent or creative, regardless of what company that he may be with. His mind is saying he still wants to go on the ring, but his body is arguing with it. You can see how he labors just to walk. He has a lot of mileage on his body. There is nothing wrong with walking away from the ring. He has three young boys that he needs a good quality of life with.


Obviously none of us know what Matt is thinking, but I assumed he would like to work in NXT in some capacity, he is very creative, I could see him helping talent with gimmick tweaking and working with the camera etc.


----------



## The Wood

Matt's an odd duck, so he could go anywhere. Impact is a possibility with a guy like that.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> Matt's an odd duck, so he could go anywhere. Impact is a possibility with a guy like that.


NWA hand the keys to the kingdom to Aldis, Impact to Matt, ROH to Scurll. All the people who were likely to sign with AEW aren't. I think AEW missing out on talent is better for the business than them signing everyone we want them to. We've got 5 strong companies to watch every week


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> NWA hand the keys to the kingdom to Aldis, Impact to Matt, ROH to Scurll. All the people who were likely to sign with AEW aren't. I think AEW missing out on talent is better for the business than them signing everyone we want them to. We've got 5 strong companies to watch every week


I think we could use more focus. AEW having all this talent and not knowing what to do with them would be painful though.

My hope is that a billionaire or ROH or even MLW makes a serious run at consolidating some of this talent and putting on a show with a serious tone and some money behind it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

AEW Interested In Signing New International Star


AEW signed a multi-year extension for their WarnerMedia contract. This means that the company can secure a deeper roster so they can carry on with their




www.ringsidenews.com





Haven't heard of the guy, but I guess this is another wait and see.


----------



## RiverFenix

El Hammerstone said:


> AEW Interested In Signing New International Star
> 
> 
> AEW signed a multi-year extension for their WarnerMedia contract. This means that the company can secure a deeper roster so they can carry on with their
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't heard of the guy, but I guess this is another wait and see.


Because Penta and Fenix are being booked so well...

Jtst add Aramis to the LB and their transition to Lucha House Party would be complete. If it already isn't.


----------



## Dice Morgan

Konnan seems to have forged a strong alliance with MLW. Looks like Triple AAA and Crash guys are working alot of their TV tapings and MLW has a co produced show coming up with Triple A. I think AEW might be out in the cold for booking most of the stars for major storyline, .


----------



## The Wood

Matt Hardy is teasing something for March 2. This is a Monday. Being the Elite does drop on Mondays, apparently, but it's got a lot of people speculating that he's signed a new deal with WWE. Or it could be Matt Hardy being full of shit or announcing something completely out of left field. He's an odd fellow.


----------



## the_flock

Apparently Matt Hardy has been offered a big role in NXT and creativity as part of a new deal.


----------



## imthegame19

the_flock said:


> Apparently Matt Hardy has been offered a big role in NXT and creativity as part of a new deal.


I'm not sure AEW is interested. There roster is packed as is for two hour show that focuses a lot on tag team as is. Seems like the focus is on adding two or three big guys(Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Jeff Cobb or Brian Cage) and Revival down the line. That said I think Matt Hardy has a big fanbase and can be a bit or a draw. So It Makes me wonder if they will try to sign him. 


Even tho he's not really what their looking for. Since he's not not big main event star, is 45 and they are looking for more big men to go with their 5-8 to 6-2 roster of guys who between 160-240.


----------



## El Hammerstone

It's a shame AEW missed out on Sareee considering Kenny's affinity for Joshi wrestlers.


----------



## Beatles123

I dunno, I think they're doing fine?


----------



## Geeee

the_flock said:


> Apparently Matt Hardy has been offered a big role in NXT and creativity as part of a new deal.


This is a perfect role for Matt. Wrestler/trainer at the performance center. Hall of Fame induction as a tag team or even as a singles.


----------



## Carter84

I think it could be Lance Archer with the tweet aew put out 

Peace.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> It's a shame AEW missed out on Sareee considering Kenny's affinity for Joshi wrestlers.


AEW didn't missed on Sareeee, she's far from being one of the best in Japan.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> AEW didn't missed on Sareeee, she's far from being one of the best in Japan.


Have you seen the women's division in AEW, she absolutely would have helped.


----------



## Aedubya

Carter84 said:


> I think it could be Lance Archer with the tweet aew put out
> 
> Peace.


Whats this?


----------



## El Hammerstone

I'll name drop a few wrestlers off the top of my head, currently working as freelancers that AEW may want to look into right here and now:

Fred Yehi- 5'9", 185 lbs, so not a big guy, but he possesses boatloads of charisma and wrestles a very intense and unorthodox style that could make for some interest matches. 




David Starr- Like Yehi, not a big guy, but has great charisma and tremendous in ring psychology with a great track record against wrestlers of all sizes and styles.

Bill Collier- Collier at 6'5" and 260 lbs fits the atheltic big guy mold that AEW apparently wants to prioritize at the moment. Could definitely see him as a headliner for a big promotion.


This is without even a minute of research on my part, I'm sure there are tons of other great talents available that could really add some much needed depth that I'm completely unaware of.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> Have you seen the women's division in AEW, she absolutely would have helped.


Not at all.

A few women in AEW are better than her.


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> It's a shame AEW missed out on Sareee considering Kenny's affinity for Joshi wrestlers.


Just like a few others in the company, I doubt anyone will be signed that would overshadow Riho. Shida is being held back for a reason


----------



## Cult03

El Hammerstone said:


> I'll name drop a few wrestlers off the top of my head, currently working as freelancers that AEW may want to look into right here and now:
> 
> Fred Yehi- 5'9", 185 lbs, so not a big guy, but he possesses boatloads of charisma and wrestles a very intense and unorthodox style that could make for some interest matches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Starr- Like Yehi, not a big guy, but has great charisma and tremendous in ring psychology with a great track record against wrestlers of all sizes and styles.
> 
> Bill Collier- Collier at 6'5" and 260 lbs fits the atheltic big guy mold that AEW apparently wants to prioritize at the moment. Could definitely see him as a headliner for a big promotion.
> 
> 
> This is without even a minute of research on my part, I'm sure there are tons of other great talents available that could really add some much needed depth that I'm completely unaware of.


I'll add a few not only known for their wrestling abilities but their charisma as well.

Effy Gibbes
Matty Wahlberg
RJ City
Danhausen (Seriously, everyone needs to watch every video on Youtube of this guy. Absolutely hilarious. He has it)
Warhorse (Same goes for Warhorse. Not many better on the mic. An absolute throwback)
William Eaver

Honestly Cody has the best job in the world. Scouting for AEW with someone else's money would be incredible


----------



## HBK Styles Ospreay

The Wood said:


> TNA was stuck in the Impact Zone, with the most annoying bunch of fans


The Fullsail NXT fans are by far the most annoying & obnoxious fans. I can't even watch NXT cuz of it, except the Takeovers


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> They are literally paying Chris Jericho and Jim Ross more than anyone else has ever paid them in their lives. And they offered Randy Orton enough money to go to Vince and get a bigger deal. Tony Khan tried to call him out on this. What was Orton's rumored WWE contract? $2.5 million and a tour bus? Let's say $3 million there.
> 
> I seriously doubt that Cody, Omega and The Bucks are working for chips. Hangman Page wouldn't be either, knowing what his buddies are getting paid when there are WWE and ROH deals to be had. And New Japan pays well too. Karl Anderson might have been lying, but he put himself at $750 when he was with them. Is Page walking away from that sort of money when they could have used gaijin after the rest of The Elite left?
> 
> PAC isn't working for free. He could very easily wrangle a bunch of money from a bigger promotion like ROH or New Japan if he didn't want to go back to WWE. How much do you think Jake Hager makes with Bellator. Why wouldn't he just take big dates with someone else or focus on his fighting if it weren't a sweet gig? Do you think Brandi is getting paid nothing knowing how much money Cody is putting into their bank account? It just flat-out doesn't make sense that they aren't paying millions on talent.
> 
> Which stars have AEW created? To create stars it's handy to have eyeballs on your product. Stars help with that. Which wrestlers are more over now than they were when AEW began? I think it's honestly Sammy Guevara and Darby Allin. And Cody is better off. MJF has never been hotter than when he went at Bret Hart on night one, and he just went in a pool. You could argue Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus now have people that care about them, but Jungle Boy is nowhere near ready to carry main events, and Luchasaurus actually seems to be cooling to me. And they've got the Marko Stunt association. No one else is appreciably in better standing with the fans than they were when they had their outside rep or were even unknown.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but you are likely a smark that thinks of Orton as "lazy" because he works a chinlock and doesn't find the need to go to the top rope or do a dive _every match_, right? Maybe not, don't mean to put words in your mouth. But that is the only mentality that doesn't seen value in one of the biggest stars in wrestling this century -- and one of the most recognizable likenesses in wrestling -- signing a seven-figure deal to come and validate _your_ wrestling promotion, as opposed to the one he was previously with that offered security and opportunities.
> 
> Orton would have changed the game. No one could fucking imagine what it would be like to see this guy in a different environment. The lifer. The golden child. All bullshit, but if it's real to the fans than it's real to the fans. A 6'5, 265lbs adonis with years of experience at the top coming in with new music and drilling some bitches with his RKO. AEW fans would have went _mental_. And they should have.
> 
> You don't think there are any WWE fans who would check out a different wrestling promotion if _Randy fucking Orton_ signed with them and got to cut loose a bit? You don't think there are any lapsed fans that here that a guy that looked like he was going to be something when they stopped watching in 2005, largely because the WWE fucked him up, has finally said "fuck it" and jumped to another promotion and is restarting the wars? You don't think there are any old school fans that would love to see what could happen if Randy Orton actually got to cut authentic promos and have wrestling matches the way he wanted to?
> 
> Randy Orton is not even 40 yet. TV executives would know who he is. Toy makers would know who he is. Video game developers would know who he is. Having him on your team and in a new environment that scaffolds the talents he has developed over more than 20 years in the wrestling business is definitely a good fucking thing.
> 
> If you don't have a cool $3 million to pay him, fire Joey Janela, Jimmy Havoc, Chuck Taylor, Marko Stunt, Jack Evans, Angelico, Brandon Cutler, The Dark Order, Michael Nakazawa, Orange Cassidy, Peter Avalon, Shawn Spears, Bea Priestly, Britt Baker, Emi Sakura, Riho, Leva Bates, Mel, Taz, Goldenboy, Bryce Remsburg, Earl Hebner and Excalibur. At $100k a piece that is $2.4 million. take some of that, put it on red and hope for the best. Because it's worth trading all those people who aren't going to move the meter for you for someone who fucking might. And when you get money from that, you can then pay the people with bright futures to come and in do things with them.


Aaaand they got the toys without Orton, will be sold in Wal-Mart stores across the country. The video game will come.

Bye bye.


----------



## Carter84

Aedubya said:


> Whats this?


There was a cryptic tweet put out by aew balance, now I think it's been the right call, 

Peace.


----------



## Carter84

Cult03 said:


> I'll add a few not only known for their wrestling abilities but their charisma as well.
> 
> Effy Gibbes
> Matty Wahlberg
> RJ City
> Danhausen (Seriously, everyone needs to watch every video on Youtube of this guy. Absolutely hilarious. He has it)
> Warhorse (Same goes for Warhorse. Not many better on the mic. An absolute throwback)
> William Eaver
> 
> Honestly Cody has the best job in the world. Scouting for AEW with someone else's money would be incredible


Danhausen and RJ City are good friend with ethan page , who I also think should be signed to aew , either with His tag partner in impact or by himself , guys legit .

Peace.


----------



## Carter84

Cult03 said:


> I'll add a few not only known for their wrestling abilities but their charisma as well.
> 
> Effy Gibbes
> Matty Wahlberg
> RJ City
> Danhausen (Seriously, everyone needs to watch every video on Youtube of this guy. Absolutely hilarious. He has it)
> Warhorse (Same goes for Warhorse. Not many better on the mic. An absolute throwback)
> William Eaver
> 
> Honestly Cody has the best job in the world. Scouting for AEW with someone else's money would be incredible


Yeah he is funny AF, his gimmick is really cool , one of the best unsigned guys out there , he is pretty nimble in ring too, blade some else noticed too

Peace.


----------



## Carter84

@Cult03 here is a fan art drawing of him , 

Hope you like it, I seen it on twitter yesterday, 

Peace Cult.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Cody Rhodes Reveals More Wrestlers On AEW's Radar


AEW is always keeping their ear to the indie wrestling scene. While taking part in a Q&A at E2C2, Cody Rhodes revealed more names on AEW's radar.




www.ringsidenews.com





Cody reportedly has 3 indy wrestlers on his radar; those being Ethan Page, Danhausen, and Warhorse.


----------



## RiverFenix

Can Cody just talk openly about his and thus AEW's interest in talent currently under contract to other companies? 

If it's anything like his Bey name drop Danhausen will be announced signed somewhere else in 5...4...3...2...


----------



## French Connection

After the Super Showdown joke, I think it is time for Tony to request some daddy's money. 
I can't believe some WWE talents are not annoyed by how the WWE is treating them.
I do not know if it is working like this in the wrestling industry, but I know it is very common in soccer to be able to rebuy the contract from any player to make them free agent, especially since the Financial Fair Play avoid clubs to overspend money. 

If I was in Tony's shoes, I will scout around WWE talents and will offer them the opportunity to buy the time remaining on their contracts to jump ship.


----------



## Boldgerg

Danhausen and Warhorse both look like yet more scrawny, little, out of shape dweebs who I'll never be able to take seriously.

Please, just stop.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Boldgerg said:


> Danhausen and Warhorse both look like yet more scrawny, little, out of shape dweebs who I'll never be able to take seriously.
> 
> Please, just stop.


I actually agree, I went and watched each in a match on YouTube and honestly left more impressed with their opponents.


----------



## RiverFenix

Danhausen is certainly something. Seems more like a Broken Universe character - but at least he recognized he needed to offer something more and is running with it now. 











A bit more on his character - Might fly too close to Statlander's strangeness with common things bit -


----------



## Boldgerg

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Danhausen is certainly something. Seems more like a Broken Universe character - but at least he recognized he needed to offer something more and is running with it now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit more on his character - Might fly too close to Statlander's strangeness with common things bit -


Fucking hell...


----------



## Cult03

This industry needs characters more than it needs giants who can barely move and five star wrestlers. That's an absolute fact. At the moment, televised wrestling bores the shit out of me. Danhausen and Warhorse do the exact opposite


----------



## The Wood

French Connection said:


> After the Super Showdown joke, I think it is time for Tony to request some daddy's money.
> I can't believe some WWE talents are not annoyed by how the WWE is treating them.
> I do not know if it is working like this in the wrestling industry, but I know it is very common in soccer to be able to rebuy the contract from any player to make them free agent, especially since the Financial Fair Play avoid clubs to overspend money.
> 
> If I was in Tony's shoes, I will scout around WWE talents and will offer them the opportunity to buy the time remaining on their contracts to jump ship.


Tony Khan should have been going into this with money. Hell, to get as far as they have would cost a shit-tonne. They could have bought out the contracts of MLW, ROH, TNA and even New Japan and All Japan talent. They could have set themselves up as a place for the best talent outside WWE. That would have helped them negotiate with other promotions and work out mutually beneficial arrangements easier. They could have really tried to get the talent whose WWE contracts were running out in 2019. Now is not the time to start doing that. Especially with Sinclair now breaking bank to keep people and MLW having meetings with NBC Universal and ViacomCBS. 

They may have had a real chance if they had approached CM Punk properly and cultured themselves around a more sensible wrestling presentation. You get Punk and all of a sudden other talent looks at you more seriously. Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar were two other major coups that were missed out on. I'm not actually sure when Lesnar re-upped with WWE, but if you get him jumping from WWE to AEW, you're making news. Like, actual news. If you get Orton, it's a big story too. More and more talent are going to look at you seriously. You are probably going to get far better merchandising and TV deals than what they got. Argh, it's so frustrating that people are just talking about Shad Khan spending money _now_. Everyone is locked up for five years, lol.


----------



## the_flock

He's spending money, but on dorks that no one cares about. As you said there's over a dozen well known stars they could have had, but you know moneyball and all that.


----------



## Jazminator

Okay, so Lance Archer is in. Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee and Brian Cage may or may not be in. Jeff Cobb is not in, but he could appear every now and then.

My question is: Who else is out there that is worth a look?

For the men's side, do you know of any contracts in other companies that are expiring soon?

How about the women's side? I'd really love to see Angelina Love, Velvet Sky and Rosemary come over to AEW. Maybe even Tenille Dashwood. But I have no idea what their current contracts are.


----------



## reyfan

French Connection said:


> After the Super Showdown joke, I think it is time for Tony to request some daddy's money.
> I can't believe some WWE talents are not annoyed by how the WWE is treating them.


I thought that for years too, but now with them showing more behind the scenes you can tell people love it because of the people they work with, like any job, plus alot of the people's career goals were to make it to WWE so they're just collecting a good pay for less work.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Jazminator said:


> Okay, so Lance Archer is in. Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee and Brian Cage may or may not be in. Jeff Cobb is not in, but he could appear every now and then.
> 
> My question is: Who else is out there that is worth a look?
> 
> For the men's side, do you know of any contracts in other companies that are expiring soon?
> 
> How about the women's side? I'd really love to see Angelina Love, Velvet Sky and Rosemary come over to AEW. Maybe even Tenille Dashwood. But I have no idea what their current contracts are.


Don't know much about contracts, but Fred Yehi, David Starr, and Bill Collier are all working as freelancers right now, and Josh Briggs is an athletic big guy worth a look. 

I don't know much about women's wrestling in America, but I think Cheerleader Melissa would be a nice 3-4 year project for AEW (she's 37 but can still go).


----------



## French Connection

reyfan said:


> I thought that for years too, but now with them showing more behind the scenes you can tell people love it because of the people they work with, like any job, plus alot of the people's career goals were to make it to WWE so they're just collecting a good pay for less work.


I partly agree, because beside the goal of working with WWE, you are in a show-business industry where character/star power is money.
And I am pretty sure the ego of some people right now, are angry about how they are used.
I just wonder from my original message, if it is contractually possible to rebuy a worker's contract.
If yes, I will go allin to bring Wyatt and Kevin Steen.


----------



## Dice Morgan

Speedball Mikey Bailey Visa ban ends in March of 2021. He might be worth a look at. I know that’s a year away.


----------



## 304418

I’m favorable toward Starfire, Alex Gracia, & Stephanie Vaquer, a few luchadoras. Two of whom that have worked Stardom before, while the other works the indies.



The Wood said:


> I did back AEW out the gate. One of the most vocal supporters of it on here. It reinvigorated my love for pro-wrestling. I talked about how fucking amazing it is that we're going to get hundreds of millions injected into wrestling outside WWE. The term I used was "post-Vince world." Then they cancelled Pac and Page for reasons that didn't make any sense. Hang on. Then they opened with a gimmick Battle Royal on their pre-show for a World Title shot that featured WCW's Glacier freezing people. Oh dear. Since then they haven't signed a single big name (Moxley came in that night). So many of their promises have been exposed as bullshit. They lost me.
> 
> I don't follow NXT as ardently as most people on here probably think. It is obviously the more sensible product, but it's not exactly the most exciting thing in the world. Honestly, I think it's going too slow. Cole vs. Ciampa has been the project since the start and we're only getting to it now. A slow-burn is good and all, but we haven't had a proper Takeover with focus and pay-offs yet, and this shit really started in September. But to say I've "backed a losing horse?" Dude, NXT is part of WWE which is signing deals for hundreds of millions of dollars -- possibly billions if the move of PPVs to other channels is true. That's the losing horse? Try harder.
> 
> If WWE wants, they will just make Wednesday the night for PPVs and cycle through different themes smashing AEW into the dust. They've got the sheer talent to do that. As I've said, if WWE really wanted to kill AEW fast, NXT would have opened with Rey Mysterio vs. Ricochet and closed with Daniel Bryan setting something up with Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin would be mentoring someone to go against a heel coach. Edge would have shown up there to work off the ring rust.
> 
> Anyway, this is a thread about AEW missing out on talent, and like they lost me, I think they lost the confidence of the wrestling community that wants to see this shit taken seriously and see stars created. There's _still_ a dependency to lean on Vince and basically sell your soul for half-a-decade, and that's a god damn shame.


I think part of the problem is that AEW isn’t using their partnerships fully. They claim they don’t want to stack the roster like WCW did with 200 wrestlers. Okay, then make proper use of the partnerships you have. Within AAA, they could have negotiated a contract with Kross and Scarlett that allows them to work both AAA & AEW and be paid the amount they want. They could then do similar deal with numerous luchadors & luchadoras (Daga, Aerostar, Drago, La Hiedra, Lady Maravilla, Lady Shani, Faby Apache, La PARK, Psycho Circus) within the promotion.

Impact is similar. Don’t have a partnership with them? Then make one (considering they both work with AAA, it shouldn’t be so difficult) with them so that they can work both Impact and AEW. Then there will be access to talents that AEW is either interested in or would benefit from (Tenille Dashwood, Tessa Blanchard, Taya Valkyrie (who’s also AAA), The North (of which Ethan Page is a part of), Ace Austin, Moose, RVD (due to both veteran experience and the current character he plays)) without having to worry too much about them leaving to work somewhere else.

Need high profile Japanese talents, but can’t get NJPW to send Okada, Tanahashi, Ibushi or KENTA? Then work with NOAH. The audience might respond well to seeing NOAH’s biggest names, Marufuji and Nakajima, wrestle on Dynamite or PPV, as well as whomever the top junior heavyweight over there is.

Just like that, the roster starts to feel like an elite roster that lives up to the All Elite Wrestling name.


----------



## The Wood

Jazminator said:


> Okay, so Lance Archer is in. Matt Hardy, Brodie Lee and Brian Cage may or may not be in. Jeff Cobb is not in, but he could appear every now and then.
> 
> My question is: Who else is out there that is worth a look?
> 
> For the men's side, do you know of any contracts in other companies that are expiring soon?
> 
> How about the women's side? I'd really love to see Angelina Love, Velvet Sky and Rosemary come over to AEW. Maybe even Tenille Dashwood. But I have no idea what their current contracts are.


Most of them signed back up with WWE or ROH. They have passed on the excellent talent out there time and time again. They could have gone after any of the talent you could name here over a year ago. They didn't.


----------



## Britz94xD

I want to see a WWE guy show up on AEW tv while under contract and then we'll see if they are really independent contractors or not. Someone must have the balls to do it.


----------



## the_flock

Verbatim17 said:


> They claim they don’t want to stack the roster like WCW did with 200 wrestlers.


They said that, but then Cody said they only had 40% of the roster named and that was after about 50 wrestlers signed for them. They've now got 70. They will have over 100 by the end of the year. 

They also said they don't want too many titles, now there's at least 20 wrestlers who are languishing and need a midcard title to keep them busy. 

Now there's talks of adding a hoss title for the bigger guys to compete for, but the majority of their roster is made up of smaller guys.


----------



## the_flock

Britz94xD said:


> I want to see a WWE guy show up on AEW tv while under contract and then we'll see if they are really independent contractors or not. Someone must have the balls to do it.


No one is going to do that in this day and age as they know if they burn their bridge with Vince, where they have a safe and secure job until their retirement, there's always a slight chance any company they could work for could be bought out by Vince or may go under.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, that Cody statement was very weird. He definitely said that they had many more talents signed, but we have not seen a single one. He's either a liar or they're doing exactly what WCW did but with guys that have even fewer than zero marks.


----------



## bdon

Rent.
Free.


----------



## The Wood

You keep saying that and I don't know what it means. Is that what I'm paying for space in your head?


----------



## reyfan

Britz94xD said:


> I want to see a WWE guy show up on AEW tv while under contract and then we'll see if they are really independent contractors or not. Someone must have the balls to do it.


I know she's not a wrestler but was odd that Renee Young was on the PPV and shown with Moxley and they don't seem to give a shit, she even said in an interview that nothing changed for her backstage once it was announced he had signed with AEW, it's like they're not bothered at all.


----------



## The Wood

reyfan said:


> I know she's not a wrestler but was odd that Renee Young was on the PPV and shown with Moxley and they don't seem to give a shit, she even said in an interview that nothing changed for her backstage once it was announced he had signed with AEW, it's like they're not bothered at all.


When WWE saw Double or Nothing, they probably relaxed A LOT. It was about right away they it was apparent they were booking for a niche and were not going to be a threat. They've settled into <1 million viewers, <70k NA PPV buys, <5,000 attendance, haven't secured any difference-making stars and didn't get giant TV money. They are not a threat. To treat them as one would probably do more to help their perception than they are doing for themselves. The best way to big dog them is probably the realistic thing -- don't give a shit about what they do.


----------



## reyfan

The Wood said:


> When WWE saw Double or Nothing, they probably relaxed A LOT. It was about right away they it was apparent they were booking for a niche and were not going to be a threat. They've settled into <1 million viewers, <70k NA PPV buys, <5,000 attendance, haven't secured any difference-making stars and didn't get giant TV money. They are not a threat. To treat them as one would probably do more to help their perception than they are doing for themselves. The best way to big dog them is probably the realistic thing -- don't give a shit about what they do.


Reminds me of what Cornette said, they probably had it on a screen showing the battle royal and showed Vince and he saw the people with no legs etc and had a good laugh then turned it off.


----------



## The Wood

reyfan said:


> Reminds me of what Cornette said, they probably had it on a screen showing the battle royal and showed Vince and he saw the people with no legs etc and had a good laugh then turned it off.


That was their first match. For a World Title shot and chance to headline their next PPV. On the pre-show. Glacier froze someone. Vince was never going to be worried about them.


----------



## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> When WWE saw Double or Nothing, they probably relaxed A LOT. It was about right away they it was apparent they were booking for a niche and were not going to be a threat. They've settled into <1 million viewers, <70k NA PPV buys, <5,000 attendance, haven't secured any difference-making stars and didn't get giant TV money. They are not a threat. To treat them as one would probably do more to help their perception than they are doing for themselves. The best way to big dog them is probably the realistic thing -- don't give a shit about what they do.


You got numbers for revolution do you? 
Suppose nxt will go back to network with your reasoning


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## Pippen94

Britz94xD said:


> I want to see a WWE guy show up on AEW tv while under contract and then we'll see if they are really independent contractors or not. Someone must have the balls to do it.


Pretty sure aew don't want that risk


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## reyfan

Pippen94 said:


> Pretty sure aew don't want that risk


Also they would be in violation on their contract so they could be sued, not just released.


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## El Hammerstone

__





IMPACT WRESTLING-SU YUNG UPDATE | PWInsider.com







www.pwinsider.com





Should there be interest here?


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## RiverFenix

Dash Wilder has filed a trademark for "Cash Wheeler" - so that's likely his AEW/Indies ring name. Cash likely explained after Johnny Cash, and Wheeler is his real last name. Cash also rhymes with Dash of course. 

Team name is likely going to be "The Shatter Machine" as well as they secured the trademark on that while WWE is fighting them on other trademark attempts. 

I wonder what ring name Dawson will come up with. He wrestled as KC McKnight before being signed to wwe, but that name really doesn't fit with his character. Casey over KC would be better. McKnight still doesn't seem to fit to my ear. 

His real name is David Harwood.


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## The Masked Avenger

They also own the trademark #FTR. I think that will be their name and The Shatter Machine will be their finisher because that's the name of their finisher.


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## The Wood

Bad timing for The Revival. I wonder if the Khans will be so willing to fork out money for talent at the moment. I guess one of them is under contract for much longer, aren't they? It'll be interesting to see how this COVID-19 stuff affects AEW, Dynamite's ratings, attendance, the Khans' spending, etc.


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## Cult03

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Dash Wilder has filed a trademark for "Cash Wheeler" - so that's likely his AEW/Indies ring name. Cash likely explained after Johnny Cash, and Wheeler is his real last name. Cash also rhymes with Dash of course.
> 
> Team name is likely going to be "The Shatter Machine" as well as they secured the trademark on that while WWE is fighting them on other trademark attempts.
> 
> I wonder what ring name Dawson will come up with. He wrestled as KC McKnight before being signed to wwe, but that name really doesn't fit with his character. Casey over KC would be better. McKnight still doesn't seem to fit to my ear.
> 
> His real name is David Harwood.


They should call themselves 'Revived'.


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## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> They should call themselves 'Revived'.


I don't mind that.


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## Pippen94

The Wood said:


> Bad timing for The Revival. I wonder if the Khans will be so willing to fork out money for talent at the moment. I guess one of them is under contract for much longer, aren't they? It'll be interesting to see how this COVID-19 stuff affects AEW, Dynamite's ratings, attendance, the Khans' spending, etc.


Attendance will drop to zero, so will ratings when show goes on break. But show will return so revival will be signed. Easy


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## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Attendance will drop to zero, so will ratings when show goes on break. But show will return so revival will be signed. Easy


Not sure how keen the Khans will be to spend money in these times. Especially with an uncertain period of inactivity.


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## DrewCN

People assume


El Hammerstone said:


> It's a shame AEW missed out on Sareee considering Kenny's affinity for Joshi wrestlers.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244743832215990274


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## El Hammerstone

DrewCN said:


> People assume
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244743832215990274


When I said "missed out", it had nothing to do with whether or nor they made an offer.


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## DrewCN

El Hammerstone said:


> When I said "missed out", it had nothing to do with whether or nor they made an offer.


Didn’t notice that “people assume” part was there, that came from another post I was typing. I was really just updating the thread on her signing


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## El Hammerstone

DrewCN said:


> Didn’t notice that “people assume” part was there, that came from another post I was typing. I was really just updating the thread on her signing


Ah, my bad then.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> Kross took the money knowing he will be misused, because he is trying to stay close with Scarlett.
> 
> He will get the money, no doubt, but he lost the girl the minute she signed with WWE.


Ha! I CALLED IT! Vince already trying to bury him!


----------

