# Joey Janela has no business being on this roster



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Can he wrestle? i guess, he's not bad, but holy fuck he looks like a flabby drug addict that they found hanging out at some gas station somewhere, just look at this image of him going against Cody









The dudes body is just fucking terrible, his tights don't even fit him properly, they always look baggy and dumpy, he seriously looks like some strung out drug addict who stole his sisters pants and put together some backyard wrestling attire to try and be a wrestler.

It looked ridiculous it took Cody as long as it did to put him away, Cody looks like a pro wrestler and Janela looks like a fan they allowed to hop in the ring and have a match with him, but thats not the case he's a member of the actual roster that they fucking pay thousands of dollars to and have on tv every other week, its ridiculous.

I seriously don't get how this guy got signed, he must be best friends with The Bucks or Cody, aint no way any national wrestling promotion would look at this guy and hire him to be on tv every week the way he looks, cause it looks like they hired some guy from youtube who wrestles in his backyard in his sisters clothes.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

He's an okay worker (perhaps when put in the match with the right people) who's probably best used as a fun character in certain match ups to do some sort of crazy spot.

Maybe they just see his future as a booker?


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

No issue with his in ring work

but his look is appalling I agree.


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## Roxinius (Jul 21, 2014)

its a shame cause if i remember correctly he seemed like he was trying to get in shape


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Roxinius said:


> its a shame cause if i remember correctly he seemed like he was trying to get in shape


Yeah i seem to remember a little while ago him getting into some kind of decent shape, but it looks like he quickly gave up on that and couldn't handle working out and eating healthy so he went back to eating potato chips and McDonalds and not giving a fuck.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


He also had other things going for him like charisma, likeability, a few really good characters, drive to be better, not being a train wreck. Very fucking weird comparison, man.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> He also had other things going for him like charisma, likeability, a few really good characters, drive to be better, not being a train wreck. Very fucking weird comparison, man.


Neither Mr olympia, both rely on hardcore spots & personality to get over. Bad boy = dude love


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

He is the definition of putting exactly zero effort into being a wrestler. Everything about him screams indy high school gym. Not that he would actually use the gym though.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253483700265848833


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## AEW_19 (May 15, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253483700265848833


I posted this recently but I think we were catfished.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pippen94 said:


> Neither Mr olympia, both rely on hardcore spots & personality to get over. Bad boy = dude love


Bad Boy = Dude I give my spare change to on the way to work
Dude Love = Talented wrestler who gave a shit about the business

They are not close to being equal to each other. The opinions of certain AEW Super Fans will never cease to amaze me.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Let me know when Jelly is 10% as good as Foley was in the ring or on the mic. Has there even been even a decent Jelly promo? People are comparing Mick Foley to the dude who stuck his head up with a dumb look while two people were kissing?


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


Lol comparing Foley to Janela, Foley one of the all time greats who could make any character work, who had more passion on the mic than any other person in the business when he wanted to, who got his body disfigured doing what he loved. Janela aint got an ounce of Foley's talent or charisma, and his hardcore spots are pg kindergarten shit compared to Foley's.

Plus Foley had that Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre body, it added to his demented multi personality character, whereas Janela just looks skinny fat which is worse than being really fat, its one of the worst looks you can have in wrestling, cause at least when you are really fat it can be intimidating, but being skinny fat just makes you look like an untimidating couch potato.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


Mick Foley had talent. This is like comparing Shark Boy to Steve Austin. I hope this stands out to people passing through the forums how absolutely ridiculous some “AEW is perfect” arguments get. Next time you try to call someonea WWE fanboy, or a troll, or biased — I’m going to remind everyone you said Joey Janela is like Mick Foley.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

We really shouldn't be surprised. The same people compared Stunt with Rey Mysterio, Darby Allin to Jeff Hardy and Moxley to Stone Cold. They'll be saying Nakazawa is the next Rock next. So much charisma


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

He's grown on me, still dont care much for him to be honest.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cult03 said:


> We really shouldn't be surprised. The same people compared Stunt with Rey Mysterio, Darby Allin to Jeff Hardy and Moxley to Stone Cold. They'll be saying Nakazawa is the next Rock next. So much charisma


The Marko Stunt/Rey Mysterio stuff is absolutely insane. It's fucking disrespectful to Rey too. Why doesn't Dave Meltzer go and ask Rey Mysterio how easy it was getting over as a small guy, and how hard he to work to compensate for his size in order to be taken as half-way credible?

Moxley to Stone Cold is ridiculous too. I've seen Moxley to Terry Funk as well.Austin was the biggest star in wrestling history. Moxley is not, never was and never will be. Terry Funk is arguably the greatest worker of all-time. Moxley has difficulty throwing a punch and selling.

Jeff Hardy was the biggest draw of 2009 and always had an insane amount of charisma. Darby Allin is a turd of a human who does a suicide dive well and is over with the crowd that is already watching.

Funny how you don't see any negative comparisons. Marko Stunt to Hornswoggle, Brandi Rhodes to Stephanie McMahon, The Dark Order to The Oddities, etc. I predict the next one is going to be comparing Kenny Omega to Shawn Michaels and Hangman Page to...Steve Austin again. Because he will be over with that audience and he drinks beer.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

When I watched the match the other day I legitimately thought many times throughout the match that Joey Janela resembled one of the guys who midcards at my local independent. They both have the same long hair, pudgy body type and look like they should be working at a grocery store. Janela isn't much better in ring than the guy at my local independent either.

I think it's ridiculous that it took close to 15 minutes for Cody to beat this guy. 3-5 minute match max between those two with Cody winning strong.




Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


Oh jeez. There really is an excuse for everything, isn't there?


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> The Marko Stunt/Rey Mysterio stuff is absolutely insane. It's fucking disrespectful to Rey too. Why doesn't Dave Meltzer go and ask Rey Mysterio how easy it was getting over as a small guy, and how hard he to work to compensate for his size in order to be taken as half-way credible?
> 
> Moxley to Stone Cold is ridiculous too. I've seen Moxley to Terry Funk as well.Austin was the biggest star in wrestling history. Moxley is not, never was and never will be. Terry Funk is arguably the greatest worker of all-time. Moxley has difficulty throwing a punch and selling.
> 
> ...


Stupid Rey, didn't he know he just had to floss to get over? Wasted his career away by being talented and working hard when he could have just danced.

Another one was Darby Allin and Sting, simply because he had face paint and bleached hair. They see all these crazy similarities between wrestlers but will deny that Brodie Lee is a parody of Vince McMahon!


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Remember those amazing Joey Janela promos? See the huge list of people who study Joey Janela tapes to work out how to sell and implement ring psychology? What about the list of people Joey Janela has gotten over by working with them? No? Of course not. It's because Joey Janela fucking sucks. There was more to Mick Foley than "looking homeless" and doing stunts. Fuck's sake, no wonder people are impressed by AEW.



Cult03 said:


> Stupid Rey, didn't he know he just had to floss to get over? Wasted his career away by being talented and working hard when he could have just danced.
> 
> Another one was Darby Allin and Sting, simply because he had face paint and bleached hair. They see all these crazy similarities between wrestlers but will deny that Brodie Lee is a parody of Vince McMahon!


Haha, I saw the Sting one. Didn't Cody make it himself? 

If I were a wrestler, I'd be really fucking pissed off at how easy it is to "make it" today. Not because I don't want people getting opportunities or want younger people to have it hard -- it just requires no talent. Why'd I learn these skills if all you need to do is show up and floss? All the art is dead. 

I'm trying to work out who Brodie Lee reminds me of. Someone with untapped potential that goes somewhere else to prove themselves but is then a wet fart and way over-pushed as a poorly-aimed jab at Vince McMahon. Maybe Jeff Jarrett?


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm fine with him. He put's on good matches. It's not like he's getting a push or anything. They use him mostly just to make other guys look better. He's a jobber to the stars. You really have no reason to hate him because he's not really getting forced in the main event or beating people that he shouldn't beat. Put his look aside, he puts on good matches and he rarely wins. Can't hate him.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I'm fine with him. He put's on good matches. It's not like he's getting a push or anything. They use him mostly just to make other guys look better. He's a jobber to the stars. You really have no reason to hate him because he's not really getting forced in the main event or beating people that he shouldn't beat. Put his look aside, he puts on good matches and he rarely wins. Can't hate him.


Why do people use this as an excuse? *It doesn't matter that he's not in the main event.* No one is arguing that he is a main event guy. He did just hang with someone that is supposed to be, but that's a total cop-out. It's like a cartoon dog showing up in Die Hard. No one wants to see that shit in their movie, and no one wants to see that shit in their wrestling. Under-card =/= shitty. You can have good stuff up and down. Why do people act like only the main event has to be good?


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Why do people use this as an excuse? *It doesn't matter that he's not in the main event.* No one is arguing that he is a main event guy. He did just hang with someone that is supposed to be, but that's a total cop-out. It's like a cartoon dog showing up in Die Hard. No one wants to see that shit in their movie, and no one wants to see that shit in their wrestling. Under-card =/= shitty. You can have good stuff up and down. Why do people act like only the main event has to be good?


If you noticed it about AEW they don't treat their talent like jobbers. They have designated jobber talent. Joey Janela isn't a jobber. He loses but he puts up a good fight. That's his thing. It doesn't bury main event talent to not be able to beat him easily. AEW makes it apparent that no one on the roster can be beat easily. I like that. I understand you not like Joey Janela as a talent, that's totally within your taste to not like him. I'm just saying he isn't like a main focus on the show, he doesn't have a match every week he wrestles for them like once a month. Just don't watch his matches I guess. It's like 15 mins of Joey Janela a month I think you will ok.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> If you noticed it about AEW they don't treat their talent like jobbers. They have designated jobber talent. Joey Janela isn't a jobber. He loses but he puts up a good fight. That's his thing. It doesn't bury main event talent to not be able to beat him easily. AEW makes it apparent that no one on the roster can be beat easily. I like that. I understand you not like Joey Janela as a talent, that's totally within your taste to not like him. I'm just saying he isn't like a main focus on the show, he doesn't have a match every week he wrestles for them like once a month. Just don't watch his matches I guess. It's like 15 mins of Joey Janela a month I think you will ok.


What I've noticed about AEW is that they treat untalented people like talent. Joey Janela shouldn't even be a jobber. He shouldn't be on TV at all. Why should he put up a good fight? Why is that his thing? It's one thing to point it out, but why? If no one on the roster can be beaten easy, how does anyone stand out? 

It's not that Joey Janela makes people avoid his matches. It's that this sort of stuff is why people don't watch the show or support the product.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I'm fine with him. He put's on good matches. It's not like he's getting a push or anything. They use him mostly just to make other guys look better. He's a jobber to the stars. You really have no reason to hate him because he's not really getting forced in the main event or beating people that he shouldn't beat. Put his look aside, he puts on good matches and he rarely wins. Can't hate him.


No mate, I'm sorry but a jobber to the stars will usually last only a couple minutes longer than a real jobber. For example back in the 90's Raven might've beat a local jobber in 2 minutes on Saturday night but then on Thunder it takes him 5 to beat Marty Jannetty. He still dominates but the former star in Jannetty has a little more in the tank.

Janela has had lengthy back and forth matches with guys like Cody, Kenny, Moxley and others.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> No mate, I'm sorry but a jobber to the stars will usually last only a couple minutes longer than a real jobber. For example back in the 90's Raven might've beat a local jobber in 2 minutes on Saturday night but then on Thunder it takes him 5 to beat Marty Jannetty. He still dominates but the former star in Jannetty has a little more in the tank.
> 
> Janela has had lengthy back and forth matches with guys like Cody, Kenny, Moxley and others.


I think he's rightfully where he belongs on the card. I'm not even a fan of Janela. The moment he ever goes over one of the wrestlers I like then I will be right there with you begging to get him released. He just doesn't bother me though. Some of you hate him for just existing on the roster lmao


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> Some of you hate him for just existing on the roster lmao


Yeah and it's been pointed out why.

- Lack of personality and charisma

- Lack of size

- No star quality

- Average wrestler at best

He shouldn't be signed to a national television contract instead he should be doing his shitty mud show independent shows where he does his invisible man matches and his social distancing matches. The average person would laugh at him being a wrestler.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah and it's been pointed out why.
> 
> - Lack of personality and charisma
> 
> ...


Exactly, this guy has no business being on tv period, whether it be to job or whatever, it makes your company look bad that a pudgy little shit like him is under contract to your company. Just imagine someone turning on AEW for the first time and Jelly Janela is the first wrestler they see coming out, they'd think the company was bush league and Janela was an example of the kind of wrestlers they have there and they'd turn the fucking channel.

And he made Cody look so bad, by putting up a fight and having Cody have to work 15 minutes to put him away wasn't a good look for Cody. You got this pudgy small guy in cheetah print tights with streamers hanging out of his crotch that looks like the guy who pumps your gas taking your supposed number 1 ranked guy in the company to a 15 minute match. If Janela is used at all it should be to lose in under 5 minutes, especially to the upper tier guys like Cody.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I think he's rightfully where he belongs on the card. I'm not even a fan of Janela. The moment he ever goes over one of the wrestlers I like then I will be right there with you begging to get him released. He just doesn't bother me though. Some of you hate him for just existing on the roster lmao


Yeah, he shouldn't exist on the roster. It's an actual issue, lol. 

And he does bury guys just by working with them. Anyone who struggles with Joey Janela should probably get out of wrestling.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

It's an insecure world we live in these days; people sadly don't want to look up at these guys anymore, they want self inserts like Janella that they can look across at to feel better about themselves. I mean, you have the twitter mob attacking Adele for her successful weight loss, calling her fatphobic; you have one of the heads of Marvel comics claiming that the superheroes of the past intimidated him with their big muscles and hot bodies, so he goes and creates Snowflake and Safespace. Is it really a surprise that people in a world like this, will vouch for a loser like Janella?


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## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm a decent sized AEW mark and I could go forever without ever seeing Janela (and Stunt) in a wrestling ring again. Both should be delivering pizzas.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Lol at anti aew trolls worshipping past & getting upset at comparisons to retired wrestlers. Foley was never viewed as a transcendent talent when he was cactus jack mason


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's an insecure world we live in these days; people sadly don't want to look up at these guys anymore, they want self inserts like Janella that they can look across at to feel better about themselves. I mean, you have the twitter mob attacking Adele for her successful weight loss, calling her fatphobic; you have one of the heads of Marvel comics claiming that the superheroes of the past intimidated him with their big muscles and hot bodies, so he goes and creates Snowflake and Safespace. Is it really a surprise that people in a world like this, will vouch for a loser like Janella?


People want performers with ability - less important is look. Kinda why Roman has been rejected


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over



But it was part of his character and his character was brilliant. Plus Mick was very talented in so many ways. And you just made the point, Mick was over, Joey is not at all.

Of course all of that could change and hes still fairly new. Mick didnt get fully over for years and Joey could possibly form into something great.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> People want performers with ability - less important is look. Kinda why Roman has been rejected


It just so happens Janella doesn't have either, and I'm no Roman fan either so I'm not going to march to his defense.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

WalkingInMemphis said:


> I'm a decent sized AEW mark and I could go forever without ever seeing Janela (and Stunt) in a wrestling ring again. Both should be delivering pizzas.


Janela should be the guy who comes and fixes my toilet when its clogged.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> It just so happens Janella doesn't have either, and I'm no Roman fan either so I'm not going to march to his defense.
> 
> As for Mick Foley, the guy had the charisma and mic ability to match anybody, and had the crowd in the palm of his hands; Janella spazzes into the camera and people want to call it charisma.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Lol at anti aew trolls worshipping past & getting upset at comparisons to retired wrestlers. Foley was never viewed as a transcendent talent when he was cactus jack mason


Compare Joey Janela to a dumpy Dino Bravo and we can talk. 



Pippen94 said:


> People want performers with ability - less important is look. Kinda why Roman has been rejected


Joey Janela doesn't have ability though, lol. Roman was rejected because the fans think he was hand-picked. Because kayfabe is dead they perceive a push as someone "being shoved down their throat." Being pushed at the time when the fans wanted Daniel Bryan didn't help. No one with any reputation or credibility will actually tell you that Roman Reigns is not a very talented guy.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's an insecure world we live in these days; people sadly don't want to look up at these guys anymore, they want self inserts like Janella that they can look across at to feel better about themselves. I mean, you have the twitter mob *attacking Adele for her successful weight loss, calling her fatphobic; you have one of the heads of Marvel comics claiming that the superheroes of the past intimidated him with their big muscles and hot bodies, so he goes and creates Snowflake and Safespace.* Is it really a surprise that people in a world like this, will vouch for a loser like Janella?


That is a stretch going from Joey Janella to Marvel and Adele. You are really reaching there. I'm not vouching for Janella but people like him have a place in the wrestling business. In your ideal world there would be only 6 feet 5, 300 pound mastodons that are good looking and full of charisma wrestlers. That's not the world we live in, wrestlers do not all look like bodybuilders, models and are full of charisma. Everybody can't be the "ideal" wrestler. Everybody can't be a Rock or Stone Cold.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I've got no issue with PC culture at all. It doesn't mean you need Joey Janela to wrestle though. He's there because he's friends with the guys, has given them bookings in the past and he makes anyone he is standing next to look really good in a club. You can look at your roster and decide you need some diversity. It's probably a good thing to find talented wrestlers of all different shapes, sizes and persuasions. But when I say "shape," I don't mean "out of."


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

We all know its not about size or ability people,Its about character and connecting with the crowd. Joey at least right now has neither of that. Im not saying his character is terrible because i for sure like certain things about it.But it feels like his character is insanely incomplete and has a lot of holes .

Cassidy proves that its not about size or in ring ability at all times. Of course we want that but it dont mean that everyone needs that. OC has the most sold shirts on the roster.

Look at Shawn spears, I think he was onto something with his character but he was not able to pull through with it and all he has is his great ability to stare you down. But hes a bigger guy and decent in ring wrestler but he is not connecting with the crowd.


Darby Allan knows how to connect to the crowd and thats all we want


That being said i think he has his purpose like others have said and hes fine on the roster.Im sure hes a lot cheaper to have on the roster and hes good for pushing other talent forward .


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> That is a stretch going from Joey Janella to Marvel and Adele. You are really reaching there. I'm not vouching for Janella but people like him have a place in the wrestling business.* In your ideal world there would be only 6 feet 5, 300 pound mastodons that are good looking and full of charisma wrestlers*. That's not the world we live in, wrestlers do not all look like bodybuilders, models and are full of charisma. Everybody can't be the "ideal" wrestler. Everybody can't be a Rock or Stone Cold.


Not even close. Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, Macho Man, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Jericho are my all time favorites; none of which were ever on the bigger side. I was a big fan of WCW's cruiserweight division (for the first few years), and TNA's X-Division, neither of which exactly boasted legions of mastadons. Any other wrong assumptions you want to make? No, not everyone will be Rock, Austin, or Foley, but there are countless options out there better than Joey Janella.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

El Hammerstone said:


> Not even close. Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, Macho Man, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Jericho are my all time favorites; none of which were ever on the bigger side. I was a big fan of WCW's cruiserweight division (for the first few years), and TNA's X-Division, neither of which exactly boasted legions of mastadons. Any other wrong assumptions you want to make? No, not everyone will be Rock, Austin, or Foley, but there are countless options out there better than Joey Janella.


AEW apologists have to go to extremes to dispute any salient point against them. If you don't like Joey Janela, you must want everyone to be 6'5, 300lbs. If you don't like AEW, you must like WWE. They're just the sort of hasty generalizations AEW fans have to make to keep its image clean. It's very rare you get someone online like a bdon, who can actually hear criticism without resorting to insane comparisons between Joey Janela and Mick Foley.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

As for my ideal promotion and how it would operate; I've made this post in a thread a few weeks ago, but I'll reiterate it again:

"I want to see great characters/personalities in interesting storylines that ultimately culminate in great matches, which is why I would target wrestlers who I see as the complete package. In the event that a wrestler is not the complete package, I would book them according to their strengths; so if I have a Dean Malenko type, I would use that guy in matches with others who are the complete package with the goal of making the other guy look that much better (which is why a Dean Malenko type would work well on the lower card rather than a Marko Stunt or Michael Nakazawa); if I have a less than quality ring worker who possesses great charisma and mic ability, I would be sure to use them more sparingly in the ring while giving them optimal time on the microphone to get their character/storyline over. I really don't see why great wrestling and great characters/promos need to be mutually exclusive."


Where in there did I mention a roster of 6'5", 300 pound mastadons exactly?


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

EC3 is a complete package but if you've only seen him in wwe you wouldnt have a clue.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> EC3 is a complete package but if you've only seen him in wwe you wouldnt have a clue.


Yeah, I've seen him in Impact, and do think he offers something.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

The Wood said:


> I've got no issue with PC culture at all. It doesn't mean you need Joey Janela to wrestle though. He's there because he's friends with the guys, has given them bookings in the past and he makes anyone he is standing next to look really good in a club. You can look at your roster and decide you need some diversity. It's probably a good thing to find talented wrestlers of all different shapes, sizes and persuasions. *But when I say "shape," I don't mean "out of*."


Lol exactly, its fine to have small guys, medium sized guys and big guys, but its wrong to say there is a place for flabby out of shape couch potato looking guys like Janela.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> People want performers with ability - less important is look. Kinda why Roman has been rejected


That's what you and the 700,000 AEW hardcore fans want. Your average wrestling fan doesn't give a hoot about if Kenny and Mox go out and have a 5 star match on TV.

When I was a kid the first wrestling VHS I ever rented to see if I'd like wrestling was WrestleMania 17. Want to know which match stood out to me most? Big Show Vs Kane Vs Raven. Two guys that were absolutely massive and were bigger than anyone I'd seen in my life throwing a smaller guy through windows and smashing him with weapons.

I think most people consider that match one of the weaker matches on the show and I can go back now as a more experienced fan and say that countless matches were better but as a "casual" at the time I was pretty interested in these two massive giants throwing around an average sized man.



MarkOfAllMarks said:


> That is a stretch going from Joey Janella to Marvel and Adele. You are really reaching there. I'm not vouching for Janella but people like him have a place in the wrestling business. In your ideal world there would be only 6 feet 5, 300 pound mastodons that are good looking and full of charisma wrestlers. That's not the world we live in, wrestlers do not all look like bodybuilders, models and are full of charisma. Everybody can't be the "ideal" wrestler. Everybody can't be a Rock or Stone Cold.


Why do you guys always go for the 6'5 300 pound stereotype? We don't want that we want guys who simply look like they've seen the inside of a gym. Simple.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

El Hammerstone said:


> Not even close. Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, Macho Man, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Jericho are my all time favorites; none of which were ever on the bigger side. I was a big fan of WCW's cruiserweight division (for the first few years), and TNA's X-Division, neither of which exactly boasted legions of mastadons. Any other wrong assumptions you want to make? No, not everyone will be Rock, Austin, or Foley, but there are countless options out there better than Joey Janella.


Only reason I bring this up is because you say he looks bad and has no charisma and those are literally your only complaints of him. You just described a shit ton of wrestlers.


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

When it first started, i gave AEW a chance, but stuff like this drove me away pretty quickly. As Cornette says, it's too outlaw mudshow-esque.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's what you and the 700,000 AEW hardcore fans want. Your average wrestling fan doesn't give a hoot about if Kenny and Mox go out and have a 5 star match on TV.
> 
> When I was a kid the first wrestling VHS I ever rented to see if I'd like wrestling was WrestleMania 17. Want to know which match stood out to me most? Big Show Vs Kane Vs Raven. Two guys that were absolutely massive and were bigger than anyone I'd seen in my life throwing a smaller guy through windows and smashing him with weapons.
> 
> ...


I just think how someone looks isn't indicative of athletic ability. We have seen guys who looked like they were in great shape but can't wrestle for more then 3 minutes and you have "flabby" guys who are legitimate good athletes who have better athletic ability and conditioning then the gym guys.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> Only reason I bring this up is because you say he looks bad and has no charisma and those are literally your only complaints of him. You just described a shit ton of wrestlers.


He can't wrestle, he can't sell, he has no psychology, he can't work the mic, he's not over, and doesn't make anyone he's in the ring with look good. I have several criticisms about the guy, I don't see the need to mention each and every thing every time I bring up the guy. He has nothing going for him.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

idk I just feel like you guys have the image of wrestling of being a who looks more intimidating contest. There were a lot of wrestlers through history who didnt look like a million bucks. People who made up for it in other areas. Guys who werent gym rats. I'm not a fan of Joey Janella whatsoever I don't really like him but I dont like the mentality of painting an image of what a wrestler should and shouldnt be.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I think he's rightfully where he belongs on the card. I'm not even a fan of Janela. The moment he ever goes over one of the wrestlers I like then I will be right there with you begging to get him released. He just doesn't bother me though. Some of you hate him for just existing on the roster lmao


The fact that you guys continue to say " I'm not a fan" of people like Stunt and Janella, yet still attempt to justify their existence in All Elite Wrestling is ridiculous. If that's the case wouldn't you prefer someone you are a fan of going 15 minutes with Cody, Omega, Pac and Moxley? It just screams settling for average instead of wanting what's best for the company.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

ehhhh... I’m not a fan.

he’s fine on DARK

those in the know says he is very influential creatively though - also a good scout for talent

on Dynamite? Nah, can live without him


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I just think how someone looks isn't indicative of athletic ability. We have seen guys who looked like they were in great shape but can't wrestle for more then 3 minutes and you have "flabby" guys who are legitimate good athletes who have better athletic ability and conditioning then the gym guys.


Look is important in the marketing part of professional wrestling. For example, if you put Joey Janela on a billboard promoting wrestling people would laugh at it whilst you put Wardlow on a billboard advertising wrestling and people would say "Whoa, that guy looks like he could kick some ass". Reality might be that Janela is a black belt in karate and could kick the shit out of Wardlow but wrestling is all about perception.

Sometimes a bad look can be overlooked if someone has something else that is truly special to play on. Dusty Rhodes for example had a horrible body and didn't look like an athlete but he had magnificent charisma and microphone ability therefore he was a big star. If Janela was phenomenal on the microphone his defenders could say "Yeah he is out of shape but he's there because of that second to none charisma" but when you bring nothing to the table plus you're a flabby out of shape jabroni it's hard to just accept you for what you are.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Cult03 said:


> The fact that you guys continue to say " I'm not a fan" of people like Stunt and Janella, yet still attempt to justify their existence in All Elite Wrestling is ridiculous. If that's the case wouldn't you prefer someone you are a fan of going 15 minutes with Cody, Omega, Pac and Moxley? It just screams settling for average instead of wanting what's best for the company.


I actually dont mind watching him, that's the difference between me being a fan. And sure I would take a match with those guys over Janella any day of the week as anyone should. I also understand them not throwing away matches like that randomly on an episode of Dynamite. Janella is a decent filler wrestler when they dont want to overexpose the main guys.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I actually dont mind watching him, that's the difference between me being a fan. And sure I would take a match with those guys over Janella any day of the week as anyone should. I also understand them not throwing away matches like that randomly on an episode of Dynamite. Janella is a decent filler wrestler when they dont want to overexpose the main guys.


You could have a much better filler wrestler though. That's his point.

It's international TV. Joey Janela isn't the best filler guy they can get.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You could have a much better filler wrestler though. That's his point.
> 
> It's international TV. Joey Janela isn't the best filler guy they can get.


I know that man but that's who they have. And like I said theres a middle ground between hating someone and being a fan. I dont like the guy but I also dont dislike him to the point he should be released you get me. He reminds me of Chase Owens if you know him. He was a Bullet Club jobber in New Japan with a bad look but work horse that is there when you need him. That's how I see Janella as a guy who works hard in his matches but he's not the most talented or best looking guy. Like I said I can watch his matches and not complain.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> Only reason I bring this up is because you say he looks bad and has no charisma and those are literally your only complaints of him. You just described a shit ton of wrestlers.


He also has no drive to get better and thinks he's cool because he never trains.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> idk I just feel like you guys have the image of wrestling of being a who looks more intimidating contest. There were a lot of wrestlers through history who didnt look like a million bucks. People who made up for it in other areas. Guys who werent gym rats. I'm not a fan of Joey Janella whatsoever I don't really like him but I dont like the mentality of painting an image of what a wrestler should and shouldnt be.


My favourite wrestler ever is Chris Jericho. None of this is true to me. Wrestling sucks in 2020 because their characters suck. Watch any indie event and the wrestling moves that matter, flipping, jumping from the turnbuckle, sunset flips etc. can be done by literally every single wrestler. The in-ring product doesn't mean much at all anymore. Character, charisma, story lines and drive are what gets people actually over in wrestling.

Darby Allin, despite his terrible personality traits, is above average in ring, looks like he hasn't eaten in a month and has the crowd in love with him. Because he has a fucking edgy character and we aren't sure what he's going to do. 
Sammy Guevara despite being as big as Batista's leg is getting over because he's funny and his cue card gimmick is fun. 
Hangman didn't change much in ring and was coasting along in ROH and AEW at the beginning, but when he added the alcohol and fuck everyone else attitude, that's exactly when people started loving him. 
As Austen Draven, did anyone even know who Luchasaurus was? He was signed to the biggest wrestling company in the world and nobody cared about him.
Britt Baker still sucks in the ring but people started praising her as soon as her character started working.
MJF is average in the ring but incredible on the mic and is praised more than anyone in the company.

Character and the ability to connect with fans is the absolute most important thing a wrestler can have.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Lol this thread is all over the place


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I know that man but that's who they have. *And like I said theres a middle ground between hating someone and being a fan. I dont like the guy but I also dont dislike him to the point he should be released you get me. He reminds me of Chase Owens if you know him. *He was a Bullet Club jobber in New Japan with a bad look but work horse that is there when you need him. That's how I see Janella as a guy who works hard in his matches but he's not the most talented or best looking guy. Like I said I can watch his matches and not complain.


all of this


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I know that man but that's who they have. And like I said theres a middle ground between hating someone and being a fan. I dont like the guy but I also dont dislike him to the point he should be released you get me. He reminds me of Chase Owens if you know him. He was a Bullet Club jobber in New Japan with a bad look but work horse that is there when you need him. That's how I see Janella as a guy who works hard in his matches but he's not the most talented or best looking guy. Like I said I can watch his matches and not complain.


Yeah I followed Chase Owens before he went to NJPW and was competing in NWA Smoky Mountain. He wasn't much to look at and was average on the microphone but was a phenomenal worker that had a great match with AJ Styles.

I think Owens deserves a contract in a company like NJPW because they are pure wrestling but Janela isn't even a great wrestler. He's average or below average at everything.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I just wish people would stop excusing mediocrity. This is supposed to be a serious company with a sports based presentation. You do not let a slob like Jelly give a main center a hard time. If you want to make everyone get in moves to make them look good, no one stands out like several have said on here.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> idk I just feel like you guys have the image of wrestling of being a who looks more intimidating contest. There were a lot of wrestlers through history who didnt look like a million bucks. People who made up for it in other areas. Guys who werent gym rats. I'm not a fan of Joey Janella whatsoever I don't really like him but I dont like the mentality of painting an image of what a wrestler should and shouldnt be.


You have everyone criticising him explaining why they don’t like him. No one is saying what you’re saying they’re saying. Jerry Lawler didn’t ever see a gym, but he was a great promo, great worker and didn’t like like absolute shit on top of that.


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

The problem that keeps coming up with these "fire X wrestler" threads is how some of you view the role of the enhancement talent/jobber. The role of the jobber isn't to get crushed in two minutes. The jobber is there to let the star have a showcase match where they give the star the opportunity to be the star. Go back to WWE for shit wrestling logic, boys.

AEW is presenting a different wrestling show from WWE. It's more like WCW. If you don't like it, don't ask them to become WWE. Just watch WWE.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Mister Sinister said:


> The problem that keeps coming up with these "fire X wrestler" threads is how some of you view the role of the enhancement talent/jobber. The role of the jobber isn't to get crushed in two minutes. The jobber is there to let the star have a showcase match where they give the star the opportunity to be the star. Go back to WWE for shit wrestling logic, boys.
> 
> AEW is presenting a different wrestling show from WWE. It's more like WCW. If you don't like it, don't ask them to become WWE. Just watch WWE.


Nope. That's the job of a mid card talent with a future. AEW uses their main eventers to showcase their jobbers abilities because every wrestler on the roster has to get their shit in no matter who they're wrestling. They are barely presenting a different show from WWE. It's so damn similar and that's what most of us complain about.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I actually dont mind watching him, that's the difference between me being a fan. And sure I would take a match with those guys over Janella any day of the week as anyone should. I also understand them not throwing away matches like that randomly on an episode of Dynamite. Janella is a decent filler wrestler when they dont want to overexpose the main guys.


I didn't mean 15 minute matches with PAC and Omega, I mean wouldn't you prefer to have Trent VS Omega again over Best Friends VS Omega and Nakazawa? Wouldn't you prefer to have Archer squash someone that looks like an adult and would look more impressive? There's been so many matches and promos that could have very easily been so much better. Wouldn't you rather Stunt not getting near falls over your World Champ? There's far better options and that isn't subjective.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

.christopher. said:


> When it first started, i gave AEW a chance, but stuff like this drove me away pretty quickly. As Cornette says, it's too outlaw mudshow-esque.


I'm in two minds about it.

I like AEW and it fills the gap WWE has left by driving me away from their lazy, overexposed, overproduced parody product. I wanted an easy to digest weekly pro wrestling show featuring in-ring action and high production values. Dynamite gives me that. The geanie is far out of the bottle concerning full on sports based wrestling and most 'serious' movie/TV franchises have elements of that wink wink at the audience style comedy attached.

Contrasting this, I feel AEW sell themselves short with the outlaw shit. A bit of psychology and logic can go a long way. They may have settled for 800,000 viewers but I really think they could have improved on their premiere episode. The likes of Janela, Cassidy, Stunt keep the indie fans happy but they weren't going anywhere. The Bucks and Kenny might push long matches but they are doing similar dumb excessive shit to what Russo was doing exactly 20 years ago. Just in a different way. Likewise, Cody is showing some of his dad's worst traits.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Mister Sinister said:


> The problem that keeps coming up with these "fire X wrestler" threads is how some of you view the role of the enhancement talent/jobber. The role of the jobber isn't to get crushed in two minutes. The jobber is there to let the star have a showcase match where they give the star the opportunity to be the star. Go back to WWE for shit wrestling logic, boys.
> 
> AEW is presenting a different wrestling show from WWE. It's more like WCW. If you don't like it, don't ask them to become WWE. Just watch WWE.


That's not right at all. The role of the jobber is to make the person they are putting over look good. Joey Janela doesn't make anyone look good. You look shit even getting into the ring with him. That's the complaint about Marko Stunt too. Jobbers aren't supposed to be comically awful pieces of shit. Did you watch WCW? Look at how those squash matches operated. If you want shit wrestling logic, everyone going 50/50 in matches as well as 50/50 in results means you've got no stars -- so good luck with your "showcase," son. 

AEW is so fucking similar to WWE. It's got its magic cameras, invisible walls, inconsistent rules, silly gimmicks, misused wrestlers, Zany Dean Ambrose, Stephanie McMahon-Rhodes, and plenty of other things that make it hokey sports entertainment. You won't ever see anything quite as bad as The Dark Order in the WWE though. 

Just because it isn't WWE and is on TNT doesn't make it similar to WCW lol. Not that later days WCW was anything to crow about. They had maybe two good years in there? And it's not like they are copying those years. It's got more in common with TNA as an "alternative." Doing their best to copy the worst of WWE while pretending to be the spiritual successor to something they're not. They've got a splash of PWG thrown in.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

To be honest, it took me about 5 months to go from 17% to 11% fat. It doesn’t sound impressive, but I did that with barely any modifications to my lifestyle. Janella has no excuse really.

when he came out with the cornrows I thought a Jodie highroller gimmick could’ve suited him. And actually, that would’ve got him over big time with the youth. Oh well.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> To be honest, it took me about 5 months to go from 17% to 11% fat. It doesn’t sound impressive, but I did that with barely any modifications to my lifestyle. Janella has no excuse really.
> 
> when he came out with the cornrows I thought a Jodie highroller gimmick could’ve suited him. And actually, that would’ve got him over big time with the youth. Oh well.


Good on you for losing weight. It can be tough if you're not used to lifestyle changes and that sort of thing. Disagree that there's ever been any value to Joey Janela as a roster member whatsoever though. Some people just belong in the crowd. Or in the lighting crew. If he really, REALLY wanted to be a referee, and he was good at that? Maybe...


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

I’m not really a Joey Janela fan, but I’m fine with him being part of the roster. For some of you, it’s like your lips are moving but it’s Jim Cornette doing the talking.

Janela is probably better at being a wrestler than some of you are being a fan.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Jazminator said:


> I’m not really a Joey Janela fan, but I’m fine with him being part of the roster. For some of you, it’s like your lips are moving but it’s Jim Cornette doing the talking.
> 
> Janela is probably better at being a wrestler than some of you are being a fan.


It's almost like sense is coming out.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

He'd be ok as a chicken shit heel. 

He has a punchable face and isn't that bad in the ring and can do some crazy shit in the hardcore matches. 

The roster is filled with a lot worse than Janela (dork order, stunt, marshall, cutler)


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jazminator said:


> I’m not really a Joey Janela fan, but I’m fine with him being part of the roster. For some of you, it’s like your lips are moving but it’s Jim Cornette doing the talking.
> 
> Janela is probably better at being a wrestler than some of you are being a fan.


I've touched on this before with fans accusing "the haters" of just copying Cornette's opinions. His podcast comes a day or two after the AEW show actually airs so majority of us are giving real opinions instead of echoing Jim's opinions and views.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've touched on this before with fans accusing "the haters" of just copying Cornette's opinions. His podcast comes a day or two after the AEW show actually airs so majority of us are giving real opinions instead of echoing Jim's opinions and views.


Maybe for some of you. But Cornette’s reaction to the Cody-Janela match appeared on YouTube this morning. And then this thread appeared. Hmmm.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jazminator said:


> Maybe for some of you. But Cornette’s reaction to the Cody-Janela match appeared on YouTube this morning. And then this thread appeared. Hmmm.


Yeah, good point maybe OP did have a listen of the Cornette podcast and make this thread. He also could've read the main show thread where myself and a few others pointed out how out of shape and bad Janela looked on TV.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Even if you do listen to Cornette and think "You know what? He's right!" Should you be penalized? Like, what's wrong with being persuaded by an insightful opinion?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Jazminator said:


> I’m not really a Joey Janela fan, but I’m fine with him being part of the roster. For some of you, it’s like your lips are moving but it’s Jim Cornette doing the talking.
> 
> Janela is probably better at being a wrestler than some of you are being a fan.


In breaking news, man who made millions and was very successful in the industry has opinions that are sometimes correct. More news as it comes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Even if you do listen to Cornette and think "You know what? He's right!" Should you be penalized? Like, what's wrong with being persuaded by an insightful opinion?


I think it's an attempt to imply that we don't actually have these views and just wait for old mate Jim to speak before we give our opinions. Obviously we all know that to be incorrect.

Many times I listen to Cornette's reviews and he mentions stuff that I hadn't noticed or even thought about. He's great to broaden peoples wrestling minds.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

It does not take a wrestling expert to point out Jelly is a short, sloppy, skinny-fatass with little wrestling talent. We have eyes. Jim says it in a much more visceral way than most of us in the way only he can, but you can easily just go to the live thread where several of us pointed most of this out in real time. I can vouch I do not live in Kentucky and my thoughts are my own.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Good on you for losing weight. It can be tough if you're not used to lifestyle changes and that sort of thing. Disagree that there's ever been any value to Joey Janela as a roster member whatsoever though. Some people just belong in the crowd. Or in the lighting crew. If he really, REALLY wanted to be a referee, and he was good at that? Maybe...


That’s fair enough. I just think when you reach national TV, you’d at least make an effort. This is his make or break opportunity. So far he’s fumbled the bag.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> That’s fair enough. I just think when you reach national TV, you’d at least make an effort. This is his make or break opportunity. So far he’s fumbled the bag.


One might hope guys like him might be humble enough to talk to some of the legends around there on how to better carry yourself, cut a promo, and just not be a goof. I am sure Arn, Tully, or Jake would be happy to dispense some knowledge.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don’t think wrestlers consider the possibility that they might be fired in 2020.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

It's incredibly simple. If you don't enjoy these people, don't watch them.
Tamina, Naomi, Mandy Rose, etc. Have zero value to them, don't see people calling for their release 24/7 because of it. We just don't watch them and move onto ones we care about.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> It's incredibly simple. If you don't enjoy these people, don't watch them.
> Tamina, Naomi, Mandy Rose, etc. Have zero value to them, don't see people calling for their release 24/7 because of it. We just don't watch them and move onto ones we care about.


Yeah, people aren't going to watch them. That's the point.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> It's incredibly simple. If you don't enjoy these people, don't watch them.
> Tamina, Naomi, Mandy Rose, etc. Have zero value to them, don't see people calling for their release 24/7 because of it. We just don't watch them and move onto ones we care about.


This doesn't work unless they are the only person on screen. I don't want to see anything Stunt related but I like Archer and Brodie Lee so I'm going to want to watch them. This isn't fucking golf


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, people aren't going to watch them. That's the point.





Cult03 said:


> This doesn't work unless they are the only person on screen. I don't want to see anything Stunt related but I like Archer and Brodie Lee so I'm going to want to watch them. This isn't fucking golf


Except some people clearly want to watch them, since they have support.
I don't enjoy them either, except for one match Joey had with Omega that was actually decent. If they were on 24/7 I'd get it, but they are rarely ever featured.
You're both just looking for random scraps to bitch about out of boredom.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> Except some people clearly want to watch them, since they have support.
> I don't enjoy them either, except for one match Joey had with Omega that was actually decent. If they were on 24/7 I'd get it, but they are rarely ever featured.
> You're both just looking for random scraps to bitch about out of boredom.


Not any significant amount of support, no. If they disappeared, no AEW apologist would miss them.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think it's an attempt to imply that we don't actually have these views and just wait for old mate Jim to speak before we give our opinions. Obviously we all know that to be incorrect.
> 
> Many times I listen to Cornette's reviews and he mentions stuff that I hadn't noticed or even thought about. He's great to broaden peoples wrestling minds.


You can't recreate the past - Cornette tried to with SMW but people had moved on. That was 26 years ago!!! Old NBA players hate the modern game too - doesn't we should go back in time


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> You can't recreate the past - Cornette tried to with SMW but people had moved on. That was 26 years ago!!! Old NBA players hate the modern game too - doesn't we should go back in time


Smoky Mountain did some pretty fine business. It lost its TV because of the rise of infomercials and people paying for slots, which completely blew-up SMW's model. It wasn't a national product -- it was a Knoxville-based territory for the fans who liked that sort of thing, and they often outdrew WCW in the area. "People had moved on" is a bullshit way of taking its closure and using it as justification for whatever voodoo you want to come out of your mouth.

I recommend people go back and watch some Smoky Mountain. Holds up really well. NXT reminds me lots of it. Many would say it holds up better than ECW. I don't want to start a thing, since I know both promotions have fans, but don't fall for the "Smoky Mountain was outdated" retroactive spin.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> Except some people clearly want to watch them, since they have support.
> I don't enjoy them either, except for one match Joey had with Omega that was actually decent. If they were on 24/7 I'd get it, but they are rarely ever featured.
> You're both just looking for random scraps to bitch about out of boredom.


I've noticed every single person justifying their existence on the roster have all said "I'm not a fan but". How come none of you can admit that there's better options?


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Smoky Mountain did some pretty fine business. It lost its TV because of the rise of infomercials and people paying for slots, which completely blew-up SMW's model. It wasn't a national product -- it was a Knoxville-based territory for the fans who liked that sort of thing, and they often outdrew WCW in the area. "People had moved on" is a bullshit way of taking its closure and using it as justification for whatever voodoo you want to come out of your mouth.
> 
> I recommend people go back and watch some Smoky Mountain. Holds up really well. NXT reminds me lots of it. Many would say it holds up better than ECW. I don't want to start a thing, since I know both promotions have fans, but don't fall for the "Smoky Mountain was outdated" retroactive spin.


You haven't watched an episode of smw - it was old school hocky stuff which makes people embarassed to be a fan. Regional promotions had run their course by that time & its no mistake that the wrestling boom which followed was result of wcw, wwe & ECW taking a different approach.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cult03 said:


> I've noticed every single person justifying their existence on the roster have all said "I'm not a fan but". How come none of you can admit that there's better options?


It's so weird. It's like people are admitting it's not good, but won't say it out loud. 



Pippen94 said:


> You haven't watched an episode of smw - it was old school hocky stuff which makes people embarassed to be a fan. Regional promotions had run their course by that time & its no mistake that the wrestling boom which followed was result of wcw, wwe & ECW taking a different approach.


I have watched SMW. You can voice that opinion, but you also think Joey Janela deserves comparisons to Mick Foley, so I'd advise people trust me over you and check it out for themselves. Some real good, uncomplicated shit.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> It's so weird. It's like people are admitting it's not good, but won't say it out loud.
> 
> 
> 
> I have watched SMW. You can voice that opinion, but you also think Joey Janela deserves comparisons to Mick Foley, so I'd advise people trust me over you and check it out for themselves. Some real good, uncomplicated shit.


You've listen to the cornette podcast that's about as much as we tell as you don't offer anything he hasn't said. 
Just so you know for much of Foley's career he was considered an unathletic looking garbage wrestler who had taken insane bumps on Indy shows - sound like anybody you know?
Foley's a wrestler from the past so you put him on pedestal - others say he was great but you've never really watched any of old school stuff you claim. You just repeat other's opinion.


----------



## Top bins (Jul 8, 2019)

Joey Janela is awful. There is no redeeming quality about the character at all. For a national company they need to cut him.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> You haven't watched an episode of smw - it was old school hocky stuff which makes people embarassed to be a fan. Regional promotions had run their course by that time & its no mistake that the wrestling boom which followed was result of wcw, wwe & ECW taking a different approach.


I watched the first 16 weeks of Smoky Mountain Wrestling about a year or two ago. At the time they were building up Brian Lee as this big heavyweight rookie and he was kind of a traditional southern babyface if I recall which I always enjoy.

They had an angle with a retired wrestler doing a worked injury angle and asking for money week to week on TV but he was managing someone (Don't recall who) and would help them cheat to win on the regular showing that he wasn't disabled at all. 

Paul Orndorff was their big star at the very start and he was doing an angle where his finishing move was banned and he was getting fined every time he used it. He would come out on TV and say he didn't care about the fines because he had made so much money in his wrestling career and that he only cared about championship glory and hurting people.

The show also featured Robert Gibson, The Fantastics, Dutch Mantell (Who was brilliant), Cornette himself (Doing an angle where he was trying to build a tag team) and even a young Bob Holly who interestingly enough was doing a Hollywood gimmick.

Never did I see anything embarrassing on there that would make someone embarrassed to be a fan of wrestling. Maybe that stuff came later on but not in those first few months of the program. I thoroughly SMW because it was good week to week and had a hook to come back most weeks. In these COVID-19 times I might fire up the network/YouTube and watch SMW tonight based off all this chatter about it.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

The Wood said:


> The Marko Stunt/Rey Mysterio stuff is absolutely insane. It's fucking disrespectful to Rey too. Why doesn't Dave Meltzer go and ask Rey Mysterio how easy it was getting over as a small guy, and how hard he to work to compensate for his size in order to be taken as half-way credible?
> 
> Moxley to Stone Cold is ridiculous too. I've seen Moxley to Terry Funk as well.Austin was the biggest star in wrestling history. Moxley is not, never was and never will be. Terry Funk is arguably the greatest worker of all-time. Moxley has difficulty throwing a punch and selling.
> 
> ...


Funny how there are similar comparisons made in the wwe part of the forum between the wwe current stars and legends but I dont see you jumping at the chance to bash wwe fans as deluded but then I doubt you will attack one of your own lol.

I will rightfully scrutinise aew's product from time to time but with posters like yourself it is painfully obvious your only point of being in the aew section is discredit anything related to the company, whether it be its wrestlers, booking or even its fans, it's rather pathetic that you spend so much time dwelling in negativity in your life, when I dont like a wrestling show I do the normal thing of not watching it, maybe you give being normal a try?


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> I've noticed every single person justifying their existence on the roster have all said "I'm not a fan but". How come none of you can admit that there's better options?





The Wood said:


> Not any significant amount of support, no. If they disappeared, no AEW apologist would miss them.


I said there were better options in the exact post that you quoted, lol. As has almost everyone in this thread. Simply having better options doesn't make one useless/worthless. Look at The Lucha Bros, or even Roman or Cody for example. They're not the best option at all but they have their place.

I'm yet to see any 'AEW apologists' in this thread. Not trashing on someone doesn't make them AEW marks.
In this thread, I see some sensible humans that can easily ignore things they don't enjoy and then you two.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Dizzie said:


> Funny how there are similar comparisons made in the wwe part of the forum between the wwe current stars and legends but I dont see you jumping at the chance to bash wwe fans as deluded but then I doubt you will attack one of your own lol.
> 
> I will rightfully scrutinise aew's product from time to time but with posters like yourself it is painfully obvious your only point of being in the aew section is discredit anything related to the company, whether it be its wrestlers, booking or even its fans, it's rather pathetic that you spend so much time dwelling in negativity in your life, when I dont like a wrestling show I do the normal thing of not watching it, maybe you give being normal a try?


Was Hornswoggle ever compared to Rey Mysterio though? Was Konnor or Viktor ever compared to Sting? I hated Mox being compared to Austin when it occurred in the WWE section too.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> *I said there were better options in the exact post that you quoted, lol.* As has almost everyone in this thread. Simply having better options doesn't make one useless/worthless. Look at The Lucha Bros, or even Roman or Cody for example. They're not the best option at all but they have their place.
> 
> I'm yet to see any 'AEW apologists' in this thread. Not trashing on someone doesn't make them AEW marks.
> In this thread, I see some sensible humans that can easily ignore things they don't enjoy and then you two.


No you didn't. You said "I'm not a fan but" and continued to make excuses. You didn't say there were better options once that I can see, lol.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Was Hornswoggle ever compared to Rey Mysterio though? Was Konnor or Viktor ever compared to Sting? I hated Mox being compared to Austin when it occurred in the WWE section too.


Oh look wood's groupie is getting defensive


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Dizzie said:


> Oh look wood's groupie is getting defensive


Oh look, an AEW sycophant intentionally avoiding the point


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> You've listen to the cornette podcast that's about as much as we tell as you don't offer anything he hasn't said.
> Just so you know for much of Foley's career he was considered an unathletic looking garbage wrestler who had taken insane bumps on Indy shows - sound like anybody you know?
> Foley's a wrestler from the past so you put him on pedestal - others say he was great but you've never really watched any of old school stuff you claim. You just repeat other's opinion.


I say plenty of stuff he hasn’t said. You just cherry-pick to suit your arguments. Foley was also known for his excellent promos and brilliant psychology. He knew when and how to bump. Joey Janela has got none of that. There are plenty of wrestlers from the past I don’t like. I’m a staunch critic of The Project harder. 



Dizzie said:


> Funny how there are similar comparisons made in the wwe part of the forum between the wwe current stars and legends but I dont see you jumping at the chance to bash wwe fans as deluded but then I doubt you will attack one of your own lol.
> 
> I will rightfully scrutinise aew's product from time to time but with posters like yourself it is painfully obvious your only point of being in the aew section is discredit anything related to the company, whether it be its wrestlers, booking or even its fans, it's rather pathetic that you spend so much time dwelling in negativity in your life, when I dont like a wrestling show I do the normal thing of not watching it, maybe you give being normal a try?


I wasn’t aware I had to do that to get your approval. Sorry, Dizzie, I’ll get on that right away.

The WWE section is largely boring discussion about whether or not someone is good or they suck. I do pop in there from time-to-time and offer my honest opinions, just like I do here.

More “if I do it, it’s balanced, but if you do it, you’re overly negative” crap. My points are reasonable, as are others. Also, more policing of the fan base. Guess what? I’m not giving AEW any of my money. Neither are most wrestling fans. That’s not a good thing for tjem



Lorromire said:


> I said there were better options in the exact post that you quoted, lol. As has almost everyone in this thread. Simply having better options doesn't make one useless/worthless. Look at The Lucha Bros, or even Roman or Cody for example. They're not the best option at all but they have their place.
> 
> I'm yet to see any 'AEW apologists' in this thread. Not trashing on someone doesn't make them AEW marks.
> In this thread, I see some sensible humans that can easily ignore things they don't enjoy and then you two.


You have plenty of people defending Janela because he’s not a main eventer. Pippen compared him to Mick Foley. You are being selective.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> No you didn't. You said "I'm not a fan but" and continued to make excuses. You didn't say there were better options once that I can see, lol.





The Wood said:


> You have plenty of people defending Janela because he’s not a main eventer. Pippen compared him to Mick Foley. You are being selective.


I said I don't enjoy them, clearly implying that there are better options. I list Omega as one too. You need to learn how to read.

Yes. He's not a main eventer. He's rarely featured. That's not being an AEW apologist, that's saying you can easily ignore his one appearance every month.
Pippen didn't compare him to Foley, though. He said Foley looked fat and dirty, which he did. That's the ONLY comparative Pippen made from what I can see. He didn't say he was anywhere near as talented or worthwhile.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> I said I don't enjoy them, clearly implying that there are better options. I list Omega as one too. You need to learn how to read.


Wait, I need to learn how to read because you think "I don't enjoy them either, except for one match Joey had with Omega that was actually decent. If they were on 24/7 I'd get it, but they are rarely ever featured" is the same as saying there's better options? You were literally justifying his spot because they aren't on 24/7. It's almost the exact opposite of admitting there's better options. I don't think you're as smart as you'd like everyone to believe, mate. You might have meant to say it in a vague way to save face, but I'd have to have a complete lack of reading comprehension abilities for what you said to somehow become "There's better options than Joey Janella".


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> I said I don't enjoy them, clearly implying that there are better options. I list Omega as one too. You need to learn how to read.
> 
> Yes. He's not a main eventer. He's rarely featured. That's not being an AEW apologist, that's saying you can easily ignore his one appearance every month.
> Pippen didn't compare him to Foley, though. He said Foley looked fat and dirty, which he did. That's the ONLY comparative Pippen made from what I can see. He didn't say he was anywhere near as talented or worthwhile.


Then why mention it? You need to learn how to read.

The only way looking like Mick Foley matters is if you are as good as Mick Foley. And Pippen has tripled down on that assertion.

Reminding people that he is not a main eventer is a way to apologize for his presence on the show at all. It’s literally apologetics lol.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Can we all just agree that Joey Janela sucks? And if the guy sucks, can’t we all just agree that there would be a hundred better people to take his spot? This isn’t hard.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over


All Foley had to do was literally be one of the best ever on the mic AND do stunts that are now banned. Plus, he wore at least 2 shirts and a singlet

That being said, I'm gonna go against the grain here and say I actually kinda like Janela. And I sort of like how AEW's jobbers are mostly characters that you can form an opinion about.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Oh look, an AEW sycophant intentionally avoiding the point


Ooo I touched a nerve, I bet you would love to give one of your usual thumbs up for woody right up his ass.

As for me being a aew fanboy, I suggest you check out my post, though I'm sure to you and your fella woody anyone that isnt constantly bashing aew at every every chance they get over the littlest of things is an aew fanboy.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Dizzie said:


> Ooo I touched a nerve, I bet you would love to give one of your usual thumbs up for woody right up his ass.
> 
> As for me being a aew fanboy, I suggest you check out my post, though I'm sure to you and your fella woody anyone that isnt constantly bashing aew at every every chance they get over the littlest of things is an aew fanboy.


Maybe your third response will argue the point. Can't wait to find out what somebody I've literally never heard of has to say. This was your moment, your time to shine and you went with "I bet you would love to give one of your usual thumbs up for woody right up his ass". I'd be embarrassed for you but that would imply that you matter. You don't.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lorromire said:


> Yes. He's not a main eventer. He's rarely featured. That's not being an AEW apologist, that's saying you can easily ignore his one appearance every month.


How come you guys say this?

Okay, I'll add Janela to the list of guys that I should ignore when they turn up. He can join Nakazawa, Private Party, Marko Stunt, Best Friends, Brandi Rhodes, The Dark Order, Matt Hardy, Orange Cassidy, Pineapple Pete and all the other goofs that I've been told not to worry about because they're easy to ignore.

Maybe I'll be able to get 10 minutes of content out of next weeks show with all this ignoring I'm doing.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> Wait, I need to learn how to read because you think "I don't enjoy them either, except for one match Joey had with Omega that was actually decent. If they were on 24/7 I'd get it, but they are rarely ever featured" is the same as saying there's better options? You were literally justifying his spot because they aren't on 24/7. It's almost the exact opposite of admitting there's better options. I don't think you're as smart as you'd like everyone to believe, mate. You might have meant to say it in a vague way to save face, but I'd have to have a complete lack of reading comprehension abilities for what you said to somehow become "There's better options than Joey Janella".





The Wood said:


> Then why mention it? You need to learn how to read.
> 
> The only way looking like Mick Foley matters is if you are as good as Mick Foley. And Pippen has tripled down on that assertion.
> 
> Reminding people that he is not a main eventer is a way to apologize for his presence on the show at all. It’s literally apologetics lol.





Chip Chipperson said:


> How come you guys say this?
> 
> Okay, I'll add Janela to the list of guys that I should ignore when they turn up. He can join Nakazawa, Private Party, Marko Stunt, Best Friends, Brandi Rhodes, The Dark Order, Matt Hardy, Orange Cassidy, Pineapple Pete and all the other goofs that I've been told not to worry about because they're easy to ignore.
> 
> Maybe I'll be able to get 10 minutes of content out of next weeks show with all this ignoring I'm doing.


I don't see how having a clear comment on there being better options = "I THINK I'M THE SMARTEST". It's not hard to understand. Joey not being on TV much and that being okay as a justification clearly implies that, if he was on more, it wouldn't be fine as there are way better options for that spot on the roster. See? Simple. I bet you also thought Trump not outright saying he wants Ukraine (I think it was them) to look into his opponent, when he clearly was heavily forcing it on them, doesn't mean that he didn't want/say/imply it at all.

I mentioned it because YOU mentioned it, Wood. That's how conversations go. You acknowledge what the other party has said.
I'm yet to see Pippen triple down on that notion but I'll reread. From what I've seen, he said he looked out of shape, which Foley did.
I'll say this, though. You're allowed to have people that aren't jacked to the bone on the roster. In fact, that makes your jacked wrestlers look even more impressive in comparison.
Justifying his presence and place on the show, which he has even if it's not great, isn't being apologetic. Just because you personally don't enjoy him doesn't mean others don't.
Now if he was hurting people left and right, like Nia or someone, then that's a different story.

If you don't enjoy all of those people Chip, which seems to be 50% of the roster, then it sounds like AEW isn't for you. Would you go into a superhero movie where you already know what the characters are going to be and then start talking about how they're shit and that The Hulk, Captain America, etc. would be better? No. Well, I'd hope you're not that petty.
They're clearly there as first wave talent, which was needed to bulk the roster up. They clearly also entertain people. I'm pretty sure Nakazawa is there as a trainer too.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

He doesn't look like he can fight, he has an awful body, no charisma. Whenever he comes on the screen I get pissed off, if he's the bad boy of AEW please shut it down. Getting over in the indy's is akin to being popular with your mum, it doesn't necessarily translate to the outside world. It takes 0 talent or worth to get over in the indys other than trying which is why All indy wrestling is trash in alot of unnecessary ways like having this guy on the roster.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> I don't see how having a clear comment on there being better options = "I THINK I'M THE SMARTEST". It's not hard to understand. Joey not being on TV much and that being okay as a justification clearly implies that, if he was on more, it wouldn't be fine as there are way better options for that spot on the roster. See? Simple. I bet you also thought Trump not outright saying he wants Ukraine (I think it was them) to look into his opponent, when he clearly was heavily forcing it on them, doesn't mean that he didn't want/say/imply it at all.
> 
> I mentioned it because YOU mentioned it, Wood. That's how conversations go. You acknowledge what the other party has said.
> I'm yet to see Pippen triple down on that notion but I'll reread. From what I've seen, he said he looked out of shape, which Foley did.
> ...


You're all over the place. Just because you can magically spin it to mean something completely different by adding 16 brand new words to your sentence doesn't mean a person should be able to read your mind. It doesn't imply what you think it implies at all. Maybe I'll take your sentence into the children I literally teach reading comprehension to and see what secret meaning they can come up with tomorrow when I go to work. 

Furthermore, you couldn't even be certain of the weirdly off topic analogy you were trying to create. 

And finally, Wood, El Hammerstone, Chip and every other person considered anti-AEW have spent hours listing the better options this company could have signed and those lists are very rarely filled with wrestlers who would be considered jacked. I like plenty of wrestlers that are considered small (And are also comedy wrestlers that are actually funny or entertaining). Motor City Machine Guns, Chris Ridgeway, Danhausen, Marty Scurll, KC Navarro, Matty Wahlberg, Warhorse, Effy, William Eaver, Ace Austin, Chris Bey, Will Ospreay. Shit my favourite wrestler ever is Chris Jericho. Their size means nothing as long as they look like they are athletic adults. Even fat dudes work in wrestling because they can be brutes.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

L


Cult03 said:


> Motor City Machine Guns, Chris Ridgeway, Danhausen, Marty Scurll, KC Navarro, Matty Wahlberg, Warhorse, Effy, William Eaver, Ace Austin, Chris Bey, Will Ospreay


Maybe only 3 of these guys are decent performers.


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

optikk sucks said:


> L
> 
> Maybe only 3 of these guys are decent performers.


which 3?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> L
> 
> Maybe only 3 of these guys are decent performers.


And all of them are better options than Joey Janella


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

I fuck with Janela he reminds me of if one of the Jackass guys was a wrestler. But unless he's in his element which is hardcore matches, he really shouldn't be going that long with guys like Cody.

Wrestlers today are too nice and giving these days. In an attempt to be buddy buddy and buck tradition sometimes they go over the top in trying to make everybody look good. But end up with nobody looking good. Janela never wins, so AEW's number 1 contender struggling with him looks stupid. Low card guys being competitive with stars of the show should be such a rare occasion that when it happens you know that low card guy is going somewhere.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Cult03 said:


> And all of them are better options than Joey Janella


Maybe most of them. Not all of them.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Lorromire said:


> I'm yet to see Pippen triple down on that notion but I'll reread. From what I've seen, he said he looked out of shape, which Foley did..






Pippen94 said:


> Mick Foley looked homeless most of his wwe run - didn't stop him getting over






Pippen94 said:


> Neither Mr olympia, both rely on hardcore spots & personality to get over. Bad boy = dude love






Pippen94 said:


> Lol at anti aew trolls worshipping past & getting upset at comparisons to retired wrestlers. Foley was never viewed as a transcendent talent when he was cactus jack mason



There goes Foley=Janela triple down lol


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

I really cant see the janela/Foley comparison that seems to have taken over the thread slightly, Foley was out of shape but he was big out of shape dude around 6 foot 4 and weighed around the 300 pound mark, janela is about 5'10 and probably about 200 pounds, then you have the charisma side of it where Foley knocked it out the park with all the characters he portrayed where as janela is pretty forgettable to the point that there are times I only remember he is on aew's books is when he pops up in a match.

I would have to agree with the original poster in that janela along with stunt arent going to do aew any favours wrestling on their shows let alone getting spots on PPV matches, at the very best janela should be a straight up squash guy and not having competitive matches with the likes of mox and cody, hell pineapple Pete should be getting better booking than janela.


----------



## WhyTooJay (Aug 25, 2010)

Janela's better than I gave him credit for. He can work and doesn't need to rely on hardcore/high spots all the time. That being said, he's fine where he is in the midcard until he can build up a passable physique.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

WhyTooJay said:


> Janela's better than I gave him credit for. He can work and doesn't need to rely on hardcore/high spots all the time. That being said, he's fine where he is in the midcard until he can build up a passable physique.


He just needs to wear a T-shirt like Kevin Owens or Bray Wyatt tbf


----------



## WhyTooJay (Aug 25, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> He just needs to wear a T-shirt like Kevin Owens or Bray Wyatt tbf


It works for those guys because they're big, husky (npi) dudes. Janela is skinny fat and short on top of it. I don't think you necessarily need to be a body builder, but you have to at least look like you can win a fight IMO (or at least like an athlete like Sammy/Kip/Darby).


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

WhyTooJay said:


> It works for those guys because they're big, husky (npi) dudes. Janela is skinny fat and short on top of it. I don't think you necessarily need to be a body builder, but you have to at least look like you can win a fight IMO (or at least like an athlete like Sammy/Kip/Darby).


Yeah that’s fair tbh. But if Owens went around topless, people will be saying the same.


----------



## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> L
> 
> Maybe only 3 of these guys are decent performers.


I'd have said 4 personally but also only seen those 4 of them out of that list (MCMG count as 2 being a tag team, Ospreay and Scurll) so not the best judge

On the topic of Janella I love 90-95% of AEW personally and am usually entertained by them but Janella is easily part of the 5-10% I don't. The comparisons to Mick Foley are dumb as Mick Foley had 50 times the on screen talent that Janella does at the very least. I think Janella actually can have a purpose in the company backstage but that's just it backstage I do not want him actually on screen in any capacity.


----------



## bcbud3 (Aug 17, 2010)

AEW would be better to hire ALMOST any of the WWE castoffs and use them instead of turds like Janella, Stunt, Cassidy and his fat best friend, evil uno..etc. Hire some wrestlers who understand the actual importance of physical presentation...
You should look the part if you're going to play the part..


----------



## Purple Haze (Sep 30, 2019)

There's no reason to keep jelly when you have Havoc, who is not great, but is better in everything


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

I haven't been on in awhile but this topic needs addressed. As someone who was in the business from around 2000-2003 I am not happy with the fact that Janela hasn't trained to be where he is and even brags about his lack of training. This is disgusting and anyone with any respect for the business knows they have to "pay their dues" to not only learn respect for the business but also the people in it and ultimately respect for yourself not to mention all the valuable knowledge that comes from starting from the ground up. 

Unless Jelly can get proper training, get in shape, develop a character, and start from the ground up like everyone respectable in the business has done since it's inception then he will not be welcome on my screen and I will not support him in any way or the companies that employ him. Even if he does all this he should start by getting squashed every week for a few months to make up for his lack of respect in the past.

I started as ring crew and fetching bags for the boys, worked up enough to become internal security, then referee, and finally to a wrestler after grueling and blood, sweat, and tears but my career ended shortly after. I also worked out and tried to look the part because I ACTUALLY RESPECTED THE BUSINESS. Jelly has no excuse and he is an insult to the business. I did once defend his halfway decent match with Omega on Dark but that was before I found out he didn't go through any formal or official training and then has the audacity to brag about it. Guys like him are one of the main things wrong with the business and why people don't take it seriously anymore and why most of the fans are beards and it has become ingrained in a very niche nerd culture. 

Sorry to rant like that, obviously he won't go backwards to then go forwards but if he is a real man he will acknowledge that he got an opportunity he doesn't deserve and will seek to rectify this by being a no name jobber and getting squashed on national TV until he gets proper training and in better shape.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Moxley to Stone Cold is ridiculous too. I've seen Moxley to Terry Funk as well.Austin was the biggest star in wrestling history. Moxley is not, never was and never will be. Terry Funk is arguably the greatest worker of all-time. Moxley has difficulty throwing a punch and selling.


Punching might not be the best thing to mention with that as according to Mick Foley the secret to Terry Funk's amazing worked punch is that it was a shoot punch.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Can we all just agree that Joey Janela sucks? And if the guy sucks, can’t we all just agree that there would be a hundred better people to take his spot? This isn’t hard.


Ultimately this is the most important point in here. Similar to the one I made in the most recent thread about Marko. WHY settle for mediocrity just to get your buddy a spot? This is business and someone needs to grow some balls at the top.

I think Cornette said something like this was a version of the Kliq where they were a bunch of geeks sitting around cosplaying instead of working out, drinking, and doing drugs.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Matthew Castillo said:


> Punching might not be the best thing to mention with that as according to Mick Foley the secret to Terry Funk's amazing worked punch is that it was a shoot punch.


It worked back then because the talent could take a stiffer punch. A significant amount of the AEW locker room probably could not take a shoot punch from a 75 year old Terry Funk today.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> It worked back then because the talent could take a stiffer punch. A significant amount of the AEW locker room probably could not take a shoot punch from a 75 year old Terry Funk today.


It's more that Funk was one of the few guys at the time that worked stiff. If everybody worked like Funk the guys from the 60s and seventies would have the kind of attrition rate that they guys from the late eighties and 90s did.And generally a punch to the head doesn't really care about how tough the person on the receiving end is.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Matthew Castillo said:


> It's more that Funk was one of the few guys at the time that worked stiff. If everybody worked like Funk the guys from the 60s and seventies would have the kind of attrition rate that they guys from the late eighties and 90s did.And generally a punch to the head doesn't really care about how tough the person on the receiving end is.


I am not saying everyone should be shooting. My point is just basically guys could work stiffer back then than today because of higher average levels of muscle and athletic training. Flair was not a beast, but his cardio training was insane etc.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> I don't see how having a clear comment on there being better options = "I THINK I'M THE SMARTEST". It's not hard to understand. Joey not being on TV much and that being okay as a justification clearly implies that, if he was on more, it wouldn't be fine as there are way better options for that spot on the roster. See? Simple. I bet you also thought Trump not outright saying he wants Ukraine (I think it was them) to look into his opponent, when he clearly was heavily forcing it on them, doesn't mean that he didn't want/say/imply it at all.
> 
> I mentioned it because YOU mentioned it, Wood. That's how conversations go. You acknowledge what the other party has said.
> I'm yet to see Pippen triple down on that notion but I'll reread. From what I've seen, he said he looked out of shape, which Foley did.
> ...


Why do people go out of their way to justify even just one segment of shitty television? Why do they think that's respectable of them? I actually don't understand the "he's not on there much" argument at all. Poochie wasn't on The Itchy & Scratchy Show much either. 

I also see a lot of criticism of Marvel films from hardcore fans of the characters. It ranges from reasonable to insane, but I don't get the "if you like superhero movies, you wouldn't overthink them" point. People absolutely do. 

And no one is saying that everyone needs to be jacked. This is a sneaky tactic to set up a straw-man. Not being jacked =/= looking like absolute shit. 



optikk sucks said:


> Maybe only 3 of these guys are decent performers.


I bet if they were signed to AEW you wouldn't be saying that. 



RapShepard said:


> I fuck with Janela he reminds me of if one of the Jackass guys was a wrestler. But unless he's in his element which is hardcore matches, he really shouldn't be going that long with guys like Cody.
> 
> Wrestlers today are too nice and giving these days. In an attempt to be buddy buddy and buck tradition sometimes they go over the top in trying to make everybody look good. But end up with nobody looking good. Janela never wins, so AEW's number 1 contender struggling with him looks stupid. Low card guys being competitive with stars of the show should be such a rare occasion that when it happens you know that low card guy is going somewhere.


This is a very articulate way of expressing my feelings on it. Wrestlers are trying to move away from what they perceive as tradition, but in doing so have sacrificed so much wrestling psychology. No one wants to say "No," to taking a dude's finish, even though it's often a terrible idea to do so. The art to structuring a card is basically lost, and shows no longer build, because everyone does everything in the first ten minutes and no one is saying "Hey, don't do that."

The loss of kayfabe has hurt wrestling, but so has the loss of psychology and the loss of bookers -- guys actually in control with a creative vision top-to-bottom that is concerned about making money over a period of time -- not just throwing shit at the wall and letting everyone get their shit in and feel good about themselves. 



optikk sucks said:


> Yeah that’s fair tbh. But if Owens went around topless, people will be saying the same.


I've said this about Owens in the past. No doubt he's talented -- doesn't seem to put a foot wrong in the ring, although his work is overrated. Excellent promo. I feel his size and shape let him down. Not because he is "fat," per se, but his height makes him look a bit less threatened than, say, a Roy Nelson in MMA looks. He looks like a "normal guy." And one of my most unpopular opinions is that I think he would make a much more effective manager than wrestler. I've gone as far as to say that he could be a modern equivalent to Bobby Heenan. He can talk the shit, take the bumps, get humiliated, come back for more. 

But I'm just a WWE apologist who eats up everything they do that only reveres the past. It's not like I just criticized one of their top stars and also compared him, potentially, to an icon from the past regarded as the best ever in his field. 

Oh, and just because someone criticizes AEW *it doesn't mean they are complimenting WWE.* I feel this needs to be said in almost every thread. 



Lheurch said:


> Ultimately this is the most important point in here. Similar to the one I made in the most recent thread about Marko. WHY settle for mediocrity just to get your buddy a spot? This is business and someone needs to grow some balls at the top.
> 
> I think Cornette said something like this was a version of the Kliq where they were a bunch of geeks sitting around cosplaying instead of working out, drinking, and doing drugs.


Thanks. That was actually Brian Last, who heard it from someone in the business (at least one person, anyway). Those guys have their clique and if they don't like you are apparently not above fucking with your shit and making it extremely hard to get booked. The internet seems to think they are nice guys because they take the time every show to tell the fans how much they love and appreciate them, but if you don't touch the dick and take the flip, _you're_ the asshole, and their business isn't for assholes anymore. 

Aren't Nick and Matt Jackson both hardcore religious nuts/Trump supporters too? That really surprised me to hear, because I thought they would have been bleeding hearts given AEW's stance on inclusion and whatnot. I cannot verify this, but I'm sure I heard that they were absolute nutjobs. Does anyone have anything else on this?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Thanks. That was actually Brian Last, who heard it from someone in the business (at least one person, anyway). Those guys have their clique and if they don't like you are apparently not above fucking with your shit and making it extremely hard to get booked. The internet seems to think they are nice guys because they take the time every show to tell the fans how much they love and appreciate them, but if you don't touch the dick and take the flip, _you're_ the asshole, and their business isn't for assholes anymore.
> 
> Aren't Nick and Matt Jackson both hardcore religious nuts/Trump supporters too? That really surprised me to hear, because I thought they would have been bleeding hearts given AEW's stance on inclusion and whatnot. I cannot verify this, but I'm sure I heard that they were absolute nutjobs. Does anyone have anything else on this?


I liked how Jim and Brian also took apart Joey Ryan for his comments on Vader being a bully. You pretty much have to literally grab his dick to be on one of the indy California shows. Not only is that bullying, it is sexual assault. Amazing people excuse this stuff and the best part was the jobber in the video responded on Twitter saying Vader was awesome and never gave him a hard time.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lol, I saw a shoot interview with Joey Ryan once -- well, clips. The dude is such a fucking moron. Not only that, but yeah, the dick-touching stuff when you are one of the promoters out there is way too dicey for me. Sure, talent might not have a legit problem with it, but if they did, would they say anything? That's just something I, as a boss or even just someone in a prominent position, would completely fucking avoid.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't see how he looks like crap honestly. 

But he doesn't bother me honestly.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> I am not saying everyone should be shooting. My point is just basically guys could work stiffer back then than today because of higher average levels of muscle and athletic training. Flair was not a beast, but his cardio training was insane etc.


That's flat out backwards, people work stiffer now than they did in Funk's heyday back in the 60s and 70s.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't see how he looks like crap honestly.
> 
> But he doesn't bother me honestly.


He literally has zero muscle definition and is somehow both skinny and fat at the same time.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> He literally has zero muscle definition and is somehow both skinny and fat at the same time.


Still not seeing it.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Still not seeing it.


Still not seeing the muscle definition? That's the point..


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Matthew Castillo said:


> That's flat out backwards, people work stiffer now than they did in Funk's heyday back in the 60s and 70s.


There are more high risk maneuvers now but that is different than working stiffer.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> He literally has zero muscle definition and is somehow both skinny and fat at the same time.


Dude looks like he ended up playing truth or dare at a high school party.


----------



## ObsoleteMule (Sep 4, 2016)

Let me preface this by saying that I havent watched a single episode of dynamite (I’m a cord-cutter and AEW doesnt seem that interesting from the clips that I’ve seen) but I do find issue with the weird amount of people on here who advocate for the firing of their wrestlers.

Like seriously? Isnt the dude a jobber? So what if he looks like shit. Super nit-picky to cry about jobbers.

I understand not liking certain wrestlers but who the fuck are we to say someone doesnt “belong” as in the dude doesnt deserve to have a job.

Dont want to get into a lame argument... i get it. “He’s skinny-fat!” “He has no charisma!” “He’s short!”

I’m just wondering where fans get off advocating for a guy to lose his job for no good reason


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ObsoleteMule said:


> Let me preface this by saying that I havent watched a single episode of dynamite (I’m a cord-cutter and AEW doesnt seem that interesting from the clips that I’ve seen) but I do find issue with the weird amount of people on here who advocate for the firing of their wrestlers.
> 
> Like seriously? Isnt the dude a jobber? So what if he looks like shit. Super nit-picky to cry about jobbers.
> 
> ...


He's a midcard act not a jobber. He has gone over 10 minutes with many of AEW's top stars and been on all 5/5 of AEW's PPV events (Main eventing one against Kenny Omega). If he was a jobber that lost in 2-3 minutes nobody would care about him.

Nobody is happy about him losing his job but reality is AEW needs improvements (Especially in the midcard) and Joey Janela is one of the main problems of that midcard. Are you a basketball, football, hockey or any other sport fan? Would you be okay with your team releasing an underperforming player or would you argue that they should keep him and keep losing because it's mean to cost him his job?


----------



## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Cody even wrestled better in the ring than him in their last match lol. I'm not sold on the dude either and I think "The Bad Boy" is a shit gimmick.

Darby Allin is better than this dude in every way.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> Still not seeing the muscle definition? That's the point..


Nice try. You know exactly what I meant.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

ObsoleteMule said:


> Let me preface this by saying that I havent watched a single episode of dynamite (I’m a cord-cutter and AEW doesnt seem that interesting from the clips that I’ve seen) but I do find issue with the weird amount of people on here who advocate for the firing of their wrestlers.
> 
> Like seriously? Isnt the dude a jobber? So what if he looks like shit. Super nit-picky to cry about jobbers.
> 
> ...


If I got hired for a job I was not qualified for, should I stay employed because no one deserves to lose a job? In what universe exactly does no one lose a job for not being good at it?

We are not advocating no one hire the dude for any job. For me, I am saying he should get a job more akin to the skill set he posses. That would not be wrestler.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Nice try. You know exactly what I meant.


That's cool. What do you see in him?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ObsoleteMule said:


> Let me preface this by saying that I havent watched a single episode of dynamite (I’m a cord-cutter and AEW doesnt seem that interesting from the clips that I’ve seen) but I do find issue with the weird amount of people on here who advocate for the firing of their wrestlers.
> 
> Like seriously? Isnt the dude a jobber? So what if he looks like shit. Super nit-picky to cry about jobbers.
> 
> ...


People aren't entitled to entertainment jobs.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> That's cool. What do you see in him?


I just see a good hand honestly. He's nothing special as a talent but he seems like he can go in the ring and can have good matches and that does count for something.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

BigCy said:


> I haven't been on in awhile but this topic needs addressed. As someone who was in the business from around 2000-2003 I am not happy with the fact that Janela hasn't trained to be where he is and even brags about his lack of training. This is disgusting and anyone with any respect for the business knows they have to "pay their dues" to not only learn respect for the business but also the people in it and ultimately respect for yourself not to mention all the valuable knowledge that comes from starting from the ground up.
> 
> Unless Jelly can get proper training, get in shape, develop a character, and start from the ground up like everyone respectable in the business has done since it's inception then he will not be welcome on my screen and I will not support him in any way or the companies that employ him. Even if he does all this he should start by getting squashed every week for a few months to make up for his lack of respect in the past.
> 
> ...


Mick Foley, Hardy Boyz, The Young Bucks all started in the backyard and had no formal training that I'm aware of


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Geeee said:


> Mick Foley, Hardy Boyz, The Young Bucks all started in the backyard and had no formal training that I'm aware of


Foley was trained by Dominic DeNucci, Matt Jackson was trained by Super Dragon and then trained Nick teaching him what Dragon taught him.

Hardy Boys had no formal training though.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

I can't disagree. Joey Janela does decent in the ring (i'm more high on him than Jimmy Havoc, but that is a rant for another thread) but he doesn't look like anything spectacular. At least he isn't getting some huge push for a Championship. So far it seems like he is mostly used to make others look good.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Joey Janela fits right in, because much of AEW's roster are made up of guys that look like they were plucked right out of a backyard wrestling federation.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Janela's look has never bothered me that much. I get what people are saying, but at the same time it doesn't make take him less seriously against guys like Sabian, Havoc, Darby, Spears, aka the guys he's mainly been feuding with. Maybe that says more about AEW's roster (before they got Lance, Wardlow, Brodie of course), but again, it's not something that bothers me.

I have more of a problem with his act itself than his look. I don't know what it is, but any time he cuts a promo or has a deeper story, for whatever reason I can't get into him. I don't believe what he's saying, I don't invest in what he's doing.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Foley was trained by Dominic DeNucci, Matt Jackson was trained by Super Dragon and then trained Nick teaching him what Dragon taught him.
> 
> Hardy Boys had no formal training though.


Pretty sure the Hardy's were trained by Dory Funk Jr., and I think Michael Hayes also had a hand in training Jeff.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Pretty sure the Hardy's were trained by Dory Funk Jr., and I think Michael Hayes also had a hand in training Jeff.


Right, they had no proper training until they got to the WWF, then they got sent to Dory Jr. because they saw potential.

That is what we need here too. Guys who are humble enough to realize they have been fighting in high schools in front of a dozen people and now they are on national TV. But we are seeing too many instances of guys thinking they are fine doing the same junk they did in the indies. AEW has plenty of great legends signed that could help here.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

Honestly, I always liked Janela's look. He looks like a rock star and has energy and excitement when he comes to the ring.

I can see what people are saying about in ring talent. I don't think he is terrible, but perhaps he is not on the level as some of the other guys.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I just see a good hand honestly. He's nothing special as a talent but he seems like he can go in the ring and can have good matches and that does count for something.


He can’t go in the ring and he can’t have good matches. Lol, wtf does this idea that he’s good come from? 



Lheurch said:


> Right, they had no proper training until they got to the WWF, then they got sent to Dory Jr. because they saw potential.
> 
> That is what we need here too. Guys who are humble enough to realize they have been fighting in high schools in front of a dozen people and now they are on national TV. But we are seeing too many instances of guys thinking they are fine doing the same junk they did in the indies. AEW has plenty of great legends signed that could help here.


That would be good, but that would mean a complete change in philosophy. They seem to believe in the “any way is the right way” approach. Arn Anderson has basically admitted that he thinks it’s crap, but now verbalizes the “well, it’s over in the building” crap Meltzer does that he used to criticize.

They could absolutely benefit from sending some of their greener talent to work out with Dr. Tom in Knoxville, but they won’t admit there is a skill to this that they don’t all inherently have.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

The Wood said:


> He can’t go in the ring and he can’t have good matches. Lol, wtf does this idea that he’s good come from?


Well in the matches I've seen him in he didn't seem bad at all so..


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well in the matches I've seen him in he didn't seem bad at all so..


Do you, like, understand wrestling? At all? I don’t know how to phrase it without being condescending. He’s bloody awful.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> That would be good, but that would mean a complete change in philosophy. They seem to believe in the “any way is the right way” approach. Arn Anderson has basically admitted that he thinks it’s crap, but now verbalizes the “well, it’s over in the building” crap Meltzer does that he used to criticize.
> 
> They could absolutely benefit from sending some of their greener talent to work out with Dr. Tom in Knoxville, but they won’t admit there is a skill to this that they don’t all inherently have.


Cody has an agreement with QT Marshall's school, so at least they know the new guys need to go for training. Dr. Tom's would be better but at least it is something. The problem is the guys who have been in the indies for awhile and think they do not need training when they desperately do. The WWF was able to sit the Hardy's down and get them to go for proper training. Someone needs to sit several guys in AEW down and have a similar talk. No one with authority seems to have the balls or desire to do it so far.

WWE has gotten this to work in that just about everyone not named AJ Styles has had to go to NXT no mater who they were outside the WWE at first to get trained in their system. AEW needs this desperately.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Foley was trained by Dominic DeNucci, Matt Jackson was trained by Super Dragon and then trained Nick teaching him what Dragon taught him.
> 
> Hardy Boys had no formal training though.


Hardy's were trained by Dory Funk Jr. and Michael Hayes to an extent.

EDIT: Nevermind, someone beat me to it already.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well in the matches I've seen him in he didn't seem bad at all so..


He's not - just has heat with old time wrestlers who bag him. People here parrot those views to troll.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> He can’t go in the ring and he can’t have good matches. Lol, wtf does this idea that he’s good come from?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everybody should work southern style says the guy from Australia who was born after territories had died.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Everybody should work southern style says the guy from Australia who was born after territories had died.


That’s not what I said at all. But you need to make that up to have a semblance of a point. ;-)


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

The Wood said:


> Do you, like, understand wrestling? At all? I don’t know how to phrase it without being condescending. He’s bloody awful.


Actually yes I do. Just because I don't think he sucks doesn't mean I don't get wrestling. Stop with that shit okay?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Actually yes I do. Just because I don't think he sucks doesn't mean I don't get wrestling. Stop with that shit okay?


But he so obviously does. There’s no way around it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

The Wood said:


> But he so obviously does. There’s no way around it.


Your opinion. Nothing More.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Your opinion. Nothing More.


It is not just opinion though. Can you imagine a 5'7" slob giving the likes of Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Foley, Hogan, Brock, Jericho, Goldberg, etc a competitive match? Why are you OK with lowering the bar so much? You have a billionaire owned company with a national TV deal. No excuses for this nonsense.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Your opinion. Nothing More.


Opinions can be based on things though. This goes beyond "I like orange juice," "I don't like orange juice." This guy is objectively the drizzling shits.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Opinions can be based on things though. This goes beyond "I like orange juice," "I don't like orange juice." This guy is objectively the drizzling shits.


Your opinion doesn't count for much. Anybody without bias can see Janela is sound in the ring - we aren't talking Sid vs Nightstalker here.
We haven't seen Janela given the airtime or angle to show what he can do in aew.
Janela is not without fans & success in wrestling; his wm weekend show in 2018 got the biggest crowd after roh & just a few months later he sold out multiple shows for the following year.
Your biggest achievement in the industry is playing heel on an internet forum.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> It is not just opinion though. Can you imagine a 5'7" slob giving the likes of Austin, Rock, Angle, HHH, Foley, Hogan, Brock, Jericho, Goldberg, etc a competitive match? Why are you OK with lowering the bar so much? You have a billionaire owned company with a national TV deal. No excuses for this nonsense.


My god. It's not "Lowering the bar" because I don't have a hate boner for the guy. It's me understanding that he's there and ain't going anywhere and paying attention to the people I like. And stop being dramatic, he ain't no damn fat slob.

And stop with this 20 years ago bullshit. That's why y'all whine about everything now. Come to 2020 please.

At the end of the day he's not hurting AEWs bottom line so it's whatever with him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The thing is, why do people still keep calling him untrained? Did they get this information from a Corny podcast? It seems like it's the Corny sycophants attempting to spread this misinformation.

This is what Janela said about it:



> Speaking on WrestlingInc.com, he reflected on critics calling him unsafe and untrained: “I went to many schools and I have a bigger seminar and camp list than any wrestler on the independents, maybe any wrestler ever.
> 
> I’ve done more with the who’s who of wrestling and I’m perfectly trained and capable of protecting somebody and my track record speaks for itself. So f*ck you Jim Cornette… Hopefully one day, Jim, I can join the other wrestlers in the h*t tub while you sit down with…I’m not gonna even go there.
> 
> Banana Boy! Banana B*tch Boy! You’ve got me riled up. The OVW jacuzzi days, I know about that Jim. The OVW jacuzzi days with the banana boy”.


Seems like the Corny boys need to get their facts straight


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Janela is booked badly. He should be a scummy heel, a real life "troll for the lolz" attitude, looking to trigger any and all for his amusement, pitting folks against each other and sitting back and admiring his handiwork. He cheats to win matches, has a bit of a sadistic streak that flashes, and even laughs off getting his ass kicked because of how "butthurt" he made you to do that to him. Make him the constant button pusher, the chronic line crosser.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Janela is booked badly. He should be a scummy heel, a real life "troll for the lolz" attitude, looking to trigger any and all for his amusement, pitting folks against each other and sitting back and admiring his handiwork. He cheats to win matches, has a bit of a sadistic streak that flashes, and even laughs off getting his ass kicked because of how "butthurt" he made you to do that to him. Make him the constant button pusher, the chronic line crosser.


Should definitely be some kind of sleezy, scummy grunge type hardcore heel. Maybe play him off as some sort of schizophrenic who talks to himself as a way of being mentally disturbed.

Have him take Marko Stunt, bless him as 'Cupid Stunt' one of his dicyples who he pimps out to get beaten the fuck out of for his own amusement and regularly beat on him. Atleast then 'Bad Boy' might actually be appropriate


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

whilst I'm no fan of janela it does seem like cornette has had an influence over some in this thread with the over the top hate for janela, I mean janela is a lower card guy eating pins and yet if you compare the guy to nxt's actual main guy there isnt a huge difference, Adam Cole is about the same height as janela and he is physically pretty skinny with little muscle.

Also in fairness to janela he did have a few decent showings almost a year ago with his promo stuff and in the ring in his short feud with moxley and the triple threat feud with havoc and allin but nothing any good since then but it's obvious the guy is suited to hardcore matches.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> My god. It's not "Lowering the bar" because I don't have a hate boner for the guy. It's me understanding that he's there and ain't going anywhere and paying attention to the people I like. And stop being dramatic, he ain't no damn fat slob.
> 
> And stop with this 20 years ago bullshit. That's why y'all whine about everything now. Come to 2020 please.
> 
> At the end of the day he's not hurting AEWs bottom line so it's whatever with him.


He is a slob. That is just a straight fact. There is a reason why ratings suck today and no one is proud to be a fan. Slobs like this dude are front and center the reason. If we cannot all come together and say this dude is a problem, there is little hope for the business.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Dizzie said:


> whilst I'm no fan of janela it does seem like cornette has had an influence over some in this thread with the over the top hate for janela, I mean janela is a lower card guy eating pins and yet if you compare the guy to nxt's actual main guy there isnt a huge difference, Adam Cole is about the same height as janela and he is physically pretty skinny with little muscle.
> 
> Also in fairness to janela he did have a few decent showings almost a year ago with his promo stuff and in the ring in his short feud with moxley and the triple threat feud with havoc and allin but nothing any good since then but it's obvious the guy is suited to hardcore matches.


5'7-8 is the same as 6 feet? How are you this ignorant of easily researchable facts? Stop making up excuses for shitty guys.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> The thing is, why do people still keep calling him untrained? Did they get this information from a Corny podcast? It seems like it's the Corny sycophants attempting to spread this misinformation.
> 
> This is what Janela said about it:
> 
> ...


“I went to many schools and I have a bigger seminar and camp list than any wrestler on the independents, maybe any wrestler ever."

Wow, he sounds like Donald Trump there: no one has more training than I have!

You know what he did not say in that clip? Named an actual place he has trained.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> “I went to many schools and I have a bigger seminar and camp list than any wrestler on the independents, maybe any wrestler ever."
> 
> Wow, he sounds like Donald Trump there: no one has more training than I have!
> 
> You know what he did not say in that clip? Named an actual place he has trained.


it was an interview

from what we've seen, you can't say he's a poor/unsafe worker

consider that seth rollins injures everyone he works with, Janella has a better track record.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> it was an interview
> 
> from what we've seen, you can't say he's a poor/unsafe worker
> 
> consider that seth rollins injures everyone he works with, Janella has a better track record.


I have heard he is unsafe. I can say I have not seen that in AEW.

I have heard he is a poor worker. I definitely have seen that in AEW.

I can also definitely say someone saying something ridiculous like "I have been to many schools. No one has gone to more schools than I have. I am the most trained person ever" is exactly the same mindset as Donald Trump.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I have heard he is unsafe. I can say I have not seen that in AEW.
> 
> I have heard he is a poor worker. I definitely have seen that in AEW.
> 
> I can also definitely say someone saying something ridiculous like "I have been to many schools. No one has gone to more schools than I have. I am the most trained person ever" is exactly the same mindset as Donald Trump.


but who are you to start contesting what he says? do you wanna see receipts, lmao.
Everyone gotta start somewhere. I'm not even a fan of the man since he's fumbling a *very* generous bag he's been given by Tony Khan. However, i'm not going to sit here and start asking for receipts when I don't ask for the same from Seth Rollins, who injures everyone.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I have heard he is unsafe. I can say I have not seen that in AEW.
> 
> I have heard he is a poor worker. I definitely have seen that in AEW.
> 
> *I can also definitely say someone saying something ridiculous like "I have been to many schools. No one has gone to more schools than I have. I am the most trained person ever" is exactly the same mindset as Donald Trump.*


I have taken many CPR and first aid classes across many years, does this qualify me as a paramedic?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> but who are you to start contesting what he says? do you wanna see receipts, lmao.
> Everyone gotta start somewhere. I'm not even a fan of the man since he's fumbling a *very* generous bag he's been given by Tony Khan. However, i'm not going to sit here and start asking for receipts when I don't ask for the same from Seth Rollins, who injures everyone.


Yes, actually.

Here is where I stand so there is no doubt. I doubt very much he has ever gone to a serious wrestling school. I would be shocked to learn otherwise. From your quote he has basically gone to Trump University. No specifics. He is indeed fumbling the ball he was handed without having earned it. One might hope he would take the time during a pandemic to actually work out and train to grow into his undeserved role. He has not. Not even a little.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> I have taken many CPR and first aid classes across many years, does this qualify me as a paramedic?


Ha, exactly. I have worked in 911 and set up several 911 dispatch centers. That does not qualify me to be a paramedic on a truck either.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Your opinion doesn't count for much. Anybody without bias can see Janela is sound in the ring - we aren't talking Sid vs Nightstalker here.
> We haven't seen Janela given the airtime or angle to show what he can do in aew.
> Janela is not without fans & success in wrestling; his wm weekend show in 2018 got the biggest crowd after roh & just a few months later he sold out multiple shows for the following year.
> Your biggest achievement in the industry is playing heel on an internet forum.


Look at you trying to get mean because you are constantly owned in conversation on here. Janela is not sound in the ring. He’s poor. He’s very, very poor. He’s constantly fucking up, has no psychology and makes it all look like shit. He’s a bad wrestler, let alone a bad worker. My opinion counts for a lot, because it’s the correct one. Sid at least looked the part. If he botched a headstand or dropped a few more guys on their head, maybe you’d like him a bit more.



optikk sucks said:


> The thing is, why do people still keep calling him untrained? Did they get this information from a Corny podcast? It seems like it's the Corny sycophants attempting to spread this misinformation.
> 
> This is what Janela said about it:
> 
> ...


All I got from that is that he’s an absolutely incoherent mutant. Is he saying he’s done more training than any wrestler ever? And you’re...taking his word?

P.S. If he’s had training, then he should ask for a refund. He’s the absolute drizzling shits.



Dizzie said:


> whilst I'm no fan of janela it does seem like cornette has had an influence over some in this thread with the over the top hate for janela, I mean janela is a lower card guy eating pins and yet if you compare the guy to nxt's actual main guy there isnt a huge difference, Adam Cole is about the same height as janela and he is physically pretty skinny with little muscle.
> 
> Also in fairness to janela he did have a few decent showings almost a year ago with his promo stuff and in the ring in his short feud with moxley and the triple threat feud with havoc and allin but nothing any good since then but it's obvious the guy is suited to hardcore matches.


“While I’m no fan of Janela...” You’ve been influenced! Make up your own mind, sheep!

How about you respond to the actual criticisms instead of making up where you think the criticisms have come from? You’re not special and don’t get a free pass to critique just because it’s you.

Anyone with two working eyes can see that Janela is a floppy turd in the ring. Cornette commenting on it just adds expert opinion.



optikk sucks said:


> it was an interview
> 
> from what we've seen, you can't say he's a poor/unsafe worker
> 
> consider that seth rollins injures everyone he works with, Janella has a better track record.


Didn’t he fuck up with Fenix. I’ve also seen him botch a bunch of stuff. He’s also broken kayfabe on AEW TV, which disqualified him from ever being considered a good worker.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> Here is where I stand so there is no doubt. I doubt very much he has ever gone to a serious wrestling school. I would be shocked to learn otherwise. From your quote he has basically gone to Trump University. No specifics. He is indeed fumbling the ball he was handed without having earned it. One might hope he would take the time during a pandemic to actually work out and train to grow into his undeserved role. He has not. Not even a little.


well then go ask for receipts.

don't know why this is 10 pages long, the guy is a goof in any case, formal training or not.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> well then go ask for receipts.
> 
> don't know why this is 10 pages long, the guy is a goof in any case, formal training or not.


Then stop making excuses for him! Holy fuck. _You_ wonder why this topic is 10 pages long? It’s because AEW fans can’t let valid criticism go. And pieces of shit like Joey Janela keep showing up on AEW and giving people reason to make valid criticisms.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> well then go ask for receipts.
> 
> don't know why this is 10 pages long, the guy is a goof in any case, formal training or not.


The reason this is ten pages long is people are excusing him, as you seem to be. You even admit he is a goof! Why excuse a goof? This thread should be: Joey Janela sucks and is an insult to everyone who ever took wrestling seriously. The OP should have 1000 likes and no replies.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Then stop making excuses for him! Holy fuck. _You_ wonder why this topic is 10 pages long? It’s because AEW fans can’t let valid criticism go. And pieces of shit like Joey Janela keep showing up on AEW and giving people reason to make valid criticisms.


You're smarter than this bro. You know that a lot of misinformation gets spread online. You should consider all the bits of evidence, rather than believing the misinformation spread by Cornette. Cmon, don't be so dumb!


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> You're smarter than this bro. You know that a lot of misinformation gets spread online. You should consider all the bits of evidence, rather than believing the misinformation spread by Cornette. Cmon, don't be so dumb!


I like evidence a lot. Would you consider evidence someone saying “I went to many schools and I have a bigger seminar and camp list than any wrestler on the independents, maybe any wrestler ever." ??

That sentence includes no actual information.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Below are 3 separate articles stating that not only has Janela had no formal training, but that he actually lied about having received training to secure his early bookings.










411MANIA | Joey Janela Says He Lied To Promoters About His Experience Early In His Career


Joey Janela spoke about his early career and revealed that he would lie to promoters about his experience in order to get gigs...




411mania.com













10 Things You Need to Know About Viral Sensation Joey Janela


Get to know more about AEW'S Viral Sensation Joey Janela




www.allelitewrestling.com













Joey Janela is a wrestler out of his era making it work through sheer willpower


With no formal training and an attitude that got him in trouble early in his career, there's no way Joey Janela should've made it. But through personal sacrifice and a willingness to take big calculated risks, Janela has become a cult icon in wrestling.




www.espn.com


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Below are 3 separate articles stating that not only has Janela had no formal training, but that he actually lied about having received training to secure his early bookings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There you go again introducing facts in a discussion


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I like evidence a lot. Would you consider evidence someone saying “I went to many schools and I have a bigger seminar and camp list than any wrestler on the independents, maybe any wrestler ever." ??
> 
> That sentence includes no actual information.


there's a whole hierarchy of evidence if you want to get into it:










I'd say that Corny is on the bottom of the pyramid, which suggests the quality of evidence is low and the risk of bias is high.
Same with Janella.

So yeah, receipts are important in this case. You could consider including case studies of where Janella has injured other wrestlers; to my knowledge, there has been NONE. I don't know how you can conduct any RCTs.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> There you go again introducing facts in a discussion


My bad.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Look at you trying to get mean because you are constantly owned in conversation on here. Janela is not sound in the ring. He’s poor. He’s very, very poor. He’s constantly fucking up, has no psychology and makes it all look like shit. He’s a bad wrestler, let alone a bad worker. My opinion counts for a lot, because it’s the correct one. Sid at least looked the part. If he botched a headstand or dropped a few more guys on their head, maybe you’d like him a bit more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Janela is a poor poor worker - thanks for elaborating. Can't wait for next Cornette podcast so you can have more to say


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

El Hammerstone said:


> Below are 3 separate articles stating that not only has Janela had no formal training, but that he actually lied about having received training to secure his early bookings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bro, come on. Stop being such a Corny sycophant! It clearly says that he did not follow the traditional wrestling training pathway. You spoke on the Hardys earlier. Janella followed a similar pathway. One of your sources is 3 years old. It is irrelevant for today.
I also appreciate that he lied to get further. Impressive that he has landed an AEW contract and has had matches with everyone from Moxley to Rhodes, without injuring anyone. Can't be said for those who have been down the tradtional route. Maybe his untraditional training has suited him better than traditional training, which statistically is more dangerous it seems.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> there's a whole hierarchy of evidence if you want to get into it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I am not sure of anyone on here ever who has argued Cornette is not biased. All humans are biased, and obviously human eyewitnesses are the worst sources of evidence. But a good source of evidence is video in context. There is plenty of that for Jelly.

Cornette's opinion carries more weight than mine or yours because he has decades of success in the wrestling business. That does not mean he is right about everything. I disagree strongly with him on several big things. I loved ECW, he hated it. Vince has also been highly successful for decades and I disagree with him on a lot.

Have I argued here that Jelly has injured anyone? I have heard that rumor but I have not seen it for myself. I believe in an earlier post I said exactly that. Why are you arguing against me using a straw man?

I argued he has never been to a proper training school for wrestling. Him saying he has been trained more than anyone is hilariously unspecific. You are arguing for evidence and he has given none. I would absolutely LOVE to see randomized control trials of people watching Jelly matches and giving feedback. It actually would be easy:

1. Have you ever watched AEW or Joey Janela?
2. If no, watch this and rate it 1-5 stars.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

optikk sucks said:


> Bro, come on. Stop being such a Corny sycophant! It clearly says that he did not follow the traditional wrestling training pathway. You spoke on the Hardys earlier. Janella followed a similar pathway. One of your sources is 3 years old. It is irrelevant for today.
> I also appreciate that he lied to get further. Impressive that he has landed an AEW contract and has had matches with everyone from Moxley to Rhodes, without injuring anyone. Can't be said for those who have been down the tradtional route. Maybe his untraditional training has suited him better than traditional training, which statistically is more dangerous it seems.


Just own up and hold this L. I don't give a shit what Cornette says about anything, I have my own thoughts and opinions, but hey, you'll believe whatever fits your narrative in the end anyway. It has been stated earlier that the Hardy's were trained by Dory Funk Jr. and that Michael Hayes had a hand in training Jeff. Nothing about Janela's path warrants any respect.

I know people who have driven drunk many times in the past without killing or hurting anyone, it doesn't make it a commendable act.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> Well, I am not sure of anyone on here ever who has argued Cornette is not biased. All humans are biased, and obviously human eyewitnesses are the worst sources of evidence. But a good source of evidence is video in context. There is plenty of that for Jelly.
> 
> Cornette's opinion carries more weight than mine or yours because he has decades of success in the wrestling business. That does not mean he is right about everything. I disagree strongly with him on several big things. I loved ECW, he hated it. Vince has also been highly successful for decades and I disagree with him on a lot.
> 
> ...


That's not a proper RCT though. What's the intervention? This is a cross-sectional study and still is very low on the pyramid. And also, what does ratings have to do with the level of skill? Most wrestlers who go to traditional schools are still shit.

I am using the injury thing as an explanation that lack of traditional training does not necessarily mean that you are an unsafe worker. You could be absolutely shit, sure. There are also some wrestlers who go to traditional schools and injure almost everyone they work with.
Lets say that Janella did NOT go to a wrestling school; is he unsafe? He may be a shit worker, sure. He may also look like shit. But so far, he hasn't injured anyone. His matches are watchable. He's willing to take bumps that most wrestlers these days are not willing to take. You can't tell me that his deathmatch with Moxley was unwatchable.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

El Hammerstone said:


> Just own up and hold this L. I don't give a shit what Cornette says about anything, I have my own thoughts and opinions, but hey, you'll believe whatever fits your narrative in the end anyway. It has been stated earlier that the Hardy's were trained by Dory Funk Jr. and that Michael Hayes had a hand in training Jeff. Nothing about Janela's path warrants any respect.


Seriously, stop. Nobody is competing for any dubs or any Ls. You Corny sycophants are obviously gonna support Cornette and his old school mentality. If you wish for losers like Janella to live rent free in your head, feel free.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

optikk sucks said:


> Seriously, stop. Nobody is competing for any dubs or any Ls. *You Corny sycophants* are obviously gonna support Cornette and his old school mentality. If you wish for losers like Janella to live rent free in your head, feel free.


Like clockwork.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> That's not a proper RCT though. What's the intervention? This is a cross-sectional study and still is very low on the pyramid. And also, what does ratings have to do with the level of skill? Most wrestlers who go to traditional schools are still shit.
> 
> I am using the injury thing as an explanation that lack of traditional training does not necessarily mean that you are an unsafe worker. You could be absolutely shit, sure. There are also some wrestlers who go to traditional schools and injure almost everyone they work with.
> Lets say that Janella did NOT go to a wrestling school; is he unsafe? He may be a shit worker, sure. He may also look like shit. But so far, he hasn't injured anyone. His matches are watchable. He's willing to take bumps that most wrestlers these days are not willing to take. You can't tell me that his deathmatch with Moxley was unwatchable.


Why are you still arguing against an argument I am not making? I have never said Jelly has injured anyone. Obviously people who have been properly trained can still injure guys. D'Lo Brown through no fault of his own did, and Seth did with Sting. Many other examples.

I am arguing he absolutely sucks as a worker. Yes, he can take bumps, but again, why are we excusing mediocrity? 100 better guys should be in his spot. If someone does not do the absolute minimum to at least look the part of a wrestler, why would I want him on my screen? Giant massive guys like Mark Henry or Vader do not need gym bodies because they were huge. But if you are a short dude with no promo skills, you better at least hit a gym. You think anyone would like Rey Mysterio or Jungle Boy if they did not do something to make them stand out from other guys their size? What exactly does Jelly bring to the table besides being willing to take bumps most other guys are smart enough not to take?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> Why are you still arguing against an argument I am not making? I have never said Jelly has injured anyone. Obviously people who have been properly trained can still injure guys. D'Lo Brown through no fault of his own did, and Seth did with Sting. Many other examples.
> 
> *I am arguing he absolutely sucks as a worker. *Yes, he can take bumps, but again, why are we excusing mediocrity? 100 better guys should be in his spot. If someone does not do the absolute minimum to at least look the part of a wrestler, why would I want him on my screen? Giant massive guys like Mark Henry or Vader do not need gym bodies because they were huge. But if you are a short dude with no promo skills, you better at least hit a gym. You think anyone would like Rey Mysterio or Jungle Boy if they did not do something to make them stand out from other guys their size? What exactly does Jelly bring to the table besides being willing to take bumps most other guys are smart enough not to take?


This is subjective btw - you're arguing something that's subjective - i'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you. He gave us some decent matches in AEW, but I haven't seen enough of him to form a hardcore opinion like the Corny sycophants ITT who will debate like Corny's holding a gun to their heads.He looks after his sparring partner, and has a history of being a booker and a promoter. I'd say his knowledge, experience and determination makes him worth more than a lot of these superstars with chiseled looks but fuck all knowledge.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> This is subjective btw - you're arguing something that's subjective - i'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you. He gave us some decent matches in AEW. He looks after his sparring partner, and has a history of being a booker and a promoter. I'd say his knowledge, experience and determination makes him worth more than a lot of these superstars with chiseled looks but fuck all knowledge.


His knowledge?!? Seriously? His absolute lack of knowledge of ring psychology and logic is astounding. He is worse then some green guy who knows nothing but at least looks like a threat. He looks horrible and what he thinks is bad. The only good thing he could do is admit he knows nothing and go talk to some vets who know what they are doing and then go get some actual training.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> His knowledge?!? Seriously? His absolute lack of knowledge of ring psychology and logic is astounding. He is worse then some green guy who knows nothing but at least looks like a threat. He looks horrible and what he thinks is bad. The only good thing he could do is admit he knows nothing and go talk to some vets who know what they are doing and then go get some actual training.


Sorry, I should've made myself more clear. Knowledge around booking and promoting.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Sorry, I should've made myself more clear. Knowledge around booking and promoting.


Where is this knowledge displayed on a product? What products has Jelly booked or promoted that have been viewed by moderate or large amounts of human beings?


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Why are you still arguing against an argument I am not making? I have never said Jelly has injured anyone. Obviously people who have been properly trained can still injure guys. D'Lo Brown through no fault of his own did, and Seth did with Sting. Many other examples.
> 
> I am arguing he absolutely sucks as a worker. Yes, he can take bumps, but again, why are we excusing mediocrity? 100 better guys should be in his spot. If someone does not do the absolute minimum to at least look the part of a wrestler, why would I want him on my screen? Giant massive guys like Mark Henry or Vader do not need gym bodies because they were huge. But if you are a short dude with no promo skills, you better at least hit a gym. You think anyone would like Rey Mysterio or Jungle Boy if they did not do something to make them stand out from other guys their size? What exactly does Jelly bring to the table besides being willing to take bumps most other guys are smart enough not to take?


People backtracking now - gone from he can't work to he can work, but I don't like his work. Fact nobody can detail what's so offensive about he does in ring shows this is just an argument borrowed from somebody else


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> People backtracking now - gone from he can't work to he can work, but I don't like his work. Fact nobody can detail what's so offensive about he does in ring shows this is just an argument borrowed from somebody else


Who is backtracking? People are arguing against me on points I never even said. He is a short, untrained guy who looks like a frat guy slob who has a few beers and thinks he can beat up someone.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> Where is this knowledge displayed on a product? What products has Jelly booked or promoted that have been views by moderate or large amounts of human beings?


Lost in New York
Spring Break
LA Confidential

I don't recall if he had any more. But from reading about these shows, they were all sold out. They were all highly rated, as well.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> People backtracking now - *gone from he can't work to he can work, but I don't like his work.* Fact nobody can detail what's so offensive about he does in ring shows this is just an argument borrowed from somebody else


This has never happened. As for the backtracking, the only backtracking is coming from those who for whatever reason want to play the "Cornette sycophants" strawman, so they can shift the conversation to Cornette vs. Janela's booking capabilities for some reason.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

look at that crowd. dude drew more people than current day WWE and AEW put together











El Hammerstone said:


> This has never happened. As for the backtracking, the only backtracking is coming from those who for whatever reason want to play the "Cornette sycophants" strawman, so they can shift the conversation to Cornette vs. Janela's booking capabilities for some reason.


"they"
LMAO you can't even @ me, you corny sycophant.

I never compared Cornette and Janella's booking capabilities; I appreciate if your second language is English, though.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

optikk sucks said:


> look at that crowd. dude drew more people than current day WWE and AEW put together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You got a little leftover Meltzer jizz on your chin buddy, oh, and here's the L you dropped.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Lost in New York
> Spring Break
> LA Confidential
> 
> I don't recall if he had any more. But from reading about these shows, they were all sold out. They were all highly rated, as well.


I have never heard of any of those shows. Googling. The first match I see for "Lost in New York" has Marko Stunt. Instantly loses all credibility. I tried several specific Google searches but still cannot find attendance figures. Can you let us know how many fans actually attended these shows? Did they sell out a high school gym or the Dallas Cowboys' stadium?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> look at that crowd. dude drew more people than current day WWE and AEW put together


OK, this has to either be a troll post or a non understanding of how math works.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

El Hammerstone said:


> You got a little leftover Meltzer jizz on your chin buddy, oh, and here's the L you dropped.


😂 Good bants.

Anyway, Janella really represented himself well here:





He reminds me of a young Shawn Michaels/Randy Orton with his attitude problems when he was younger.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> OK, this has to either be a troll post or a non understanding of how math works.


it was an empty arena joke. Stop looking for trolling lol.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> it was an empty arena joke. Stop looking for trolling lol.


OK, so you agree he has no promoting skills then? Why did you argue that he did and then make a joke post that argues against your position?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I have never heard of any of those shows. Googling. The first match I see for "Lost in New York" has Marko Stunt. Instantly loses all credibility. I tried several specific Google searches but still cannot find attendance figures. Can you let us know how many fans actually attended these shows? Did they sell out a high school gym or the Dallas Cowboys' stadium?


again, where did I say that he is some fantabulous booker that has booked for WWE and AEW put together?

I have said that he sold out when I did my background research. I also said earlier in this thread, that he is more valuable with his determination, booking/promoting knowledge etc than a chiseled guy with fuck all knowledge.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> Lost in New York
> Spring Break
> LA Confidential
> 
> I don't recall if he had any more. But from reading about these shows, they were all sold out. They were all highly rated, as well.


Were there story lines on these shows or did he just get a bunch of wrestlers in to wrestle a one off show?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

I'm watching this documentary and he says he has ADD. Might explain his weird behaviour/promos on TV.


optikk sucks said:


>


He's actually got a very storied background. Can't really say anything negative after watching this.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> again, where did I say that he is some fantabulous booker that has booked for WWE and AEW put together?
> 
> I have said that he sold out when I did my background research. I also said earlier in this thread, that he is more valuable with his determination, booking/promoting knowledge etc than a chiseled guy with fuck all knowledge.


You said it exactly here:

"Sorry, I should've made myself more clear. Knowledge around booking and promoting."

What knowledge?? Selling out a high school gym is not something it takes a lot of effort to do. If you have 125 seats, sell 100 and then remove the 25 you did not sell, does that make it a sell out show?

Why are you going so far out of your way to defend this goof?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> You said it exactly here:
> 
> "Sorry, I should've made myself more clear. Knowledge around booking and promoting."
> 
> ...


you make it sound very easy, but he's got a few hundred people in that venue I posted. They are also highly rated and clearly GCW were happy for him to come back. He has enough knowledge to be able to do this. You can't even deny that.

And I looked it up for you. Melrose Ballroom accommodates 1100 standing. You can decide how much you think he's sold based off that number and based off people who attended, saying it was packed to the rafters.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> you make it sound very easy, but he's got a few hundred people in that venue I posted. They are also highly rated and clearly GCW were happy for him to come back. He has enough knowledge to be able to do this. You can't even deny that.


With the ability to gather "a few hundred people" I wonder why major companies are not competing to hire him to learn from his amazing knowledge?

AGAIN, why are you defending a mediocre goof? Is the bar set so low now that guy who can get a few hundred people to gather in a room is considered good???

Can we not just say in unison this dude sucks as a wrestler and needs to go to school before ever appearing on television again?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

To be fair to him, his events are usually booked well. 

Spring Break is usually one of the best events on Wrestlemania weekend and this year it was the best sold event outside of ones by WWE.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> With the ability to gather "a few hundred people" I wonder why major companies are not competing to hire him to learn from his amazing knowledge?
> 
> AGAIN, why are you defending a mediocre goof? Is the bar set so low now that guy who can get a few hundred people to gather in a room is considered good???
> 
> Can we not just say in unison this dude sucks as a wrestler and needs to go to school before ever appearing on television again?


Read my edit. 1100 standing in the venue b. And everyone has to start somewhere right? Remember he is only 30. He could be an amazing booker/promoter; he’s showed potential. How many people did Paul Heyman start drawing when he first started?

and why should I just agree like a sheep? It’s all subjective at the end of the day. I feel like I’m going in circles - all of his matches in AEW have been watchable. He hasn’t injured anyone. He has a successful history as a promoter/booker. That makes him a decent acquisition. Nobody is calling for him to be world champion.

it’s all subjective. You’re smarter than this. I don’t put you in the same class as @The Wood who HAS to be right 100% of the time. I am not even trying to say your argument is wrong.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Read my edit. 1100 standing in the venue b.
> 
> and why should I just agree like a sheep? It’s all subjective at the end of the day. I feel like I’m going in circles - all of his matches in AEW have been watchable. He hasn’t injured anyone. He has a successful history as a promoter/booker. That makes him a decent acquisition. Nobody is calling for him to be world champion.
> 
> it’s all subjective. You’re smarter than this. I don’t put you in the same class as @The Wood who HAS to be right 100% of the time. I am not even trying to say your argument is wrong.


I am not asking anyone to be a sheep. I am just asking for people to look at facts. He is not a successful booker/promoter by any decent standards. He is a well below average worker who no one should take seriously because he does not even take himself seriously. There are easily 100 people who should be in the ring with Cody before him.

A lot of it is subjective, but not everything is. He objectively is a short, out of shape slob who does not take the business seriously.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Janella sucks. Does seem like Jimmy Havoc is actually gaiining a little muscle mass. Maybe he will take it seriously. He is a good fit for Dark for the indefinite future. Janella is trash, should be fired. Stunt can be used exclusively on Dark, no harm there.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I am not asking anyone to be a sheep. I am just asking for people to look at facts. He is not a successful booker/promoter by any decent standards. He is a well below average worker who no one should take seriously because he does not even take himself seriously. There are easily 100 people who should be in the ring with Cody before him.
> 
> A lot of it is subjective, but not everything is. He objectively is a short, out of shape slob who does not take the business seriously.


Watch the documentary I posted. He does seem to take wrestling very seriously. He has ADHD, which may explain his behaviour.
Seriously bro, we are going in circles here. If you’re going to be stubborn, continue. You’re coming off very ED here in all honesty. I expected more from you.
He is absolutely very successful if you consider that he’s probably got 10-11 shows under his name and is drawing close to 1000 people. Everyone has to start from somewhere. Either you’re very young and you haven’t started working yet, or you were born in wealth.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

optikk sucks said:


> He does seem to take wrestling very seriously.


No one who chooses to lie their way into the business has any kind of respect for it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

El Hammerstone said:


> No one who chooses to lie their way into the business has any kind of respect for it.


Watch the documentary man. It explains a lot, trust me. You can sort of understand it after this.
Like, how far do you guys have your heads so far up your asses that you’re not even willing to put bias’ aside.
very disappointed in you Hammerstone. I considered you to be more intelligent and less like how you’ve replied to me in this thread.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Watch the documentary I posted. He does seem to take wrestling very seriously. He has ADHD, which may explain his behaviour.
> Seriously bro, we are going in circles here. If you’re going to be stubborn, continue. You’re coming off very ED here in all honesty. I expected more from you.
> He is absolutely very successful if you consider that he’s probably got 10-11 shows under his name and is drawing close to 1000 people. Everyone has to start from somewhere. Either you’re very young and you haven’t started working yet, or you were born in wealth.


He may take what he thinks is wrestling seriously, and that may be our problem. He cannot even be bothered to try and look somewhat serious.

I am pretty stubborn when it comes to facts. There are plenty of wrestlers I am not a fan of, but I can see why some people might like them. #1 is Cena. I HATE Cena's character more than any other based on the amount he was pushed. He made me stop watching for years. But I can at least understand why children might like him. Guys like Jelly and Marko I just simply cannot understand them appealing to anyone ever.

I am not a acronym manager, so not sure what you mean by "ED." Say what you mean. I hate abbreviations.

He is only successful if we lower the bar so low that it starts to lose all meaning. I would be much more supportive of him if his attitude was that he really is just starting off and needs to get proper training in the business. I absolutely understand the need for starting somewhere and that has been a big part of my arguments on here. He thinks he is at a much higher level than he is. He needs some humility.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Janela is not without fans & success in wrestling; his wm weekend show in 2018 got the biggest crowd after roh & just a few months later he sold out multiple shows for the following year.
> Your biggest achievement in the industry is playing heel on an internet forum.


He booked a bunch of really popular independent guys on WrestleMania weekend and mixed them with some rare WWE guys and The Great fucking Sasuke who barely ever wrestles outside of Japan. That's why he drew a big house it wasn't because Joey Janela himself was on the bill or because he's some promoting genius.



Dizzie said:


> Also in fairness to janela he did have a few decent showings almost a year ago with his promo stuff and in the ring in his short feud with moxley and the triple threat feud with havoc and allin but nothing any good since then but it's obvious the guy is suited to hardcore matches.


Decent to me means average.

So he had a few average showings almost a year ago and we're arguing to keep him in All ELITE Wrestling why?



optikk sucks said:


> Lost in New York
> Spring Break
> LA Confidential
> 
> I don't recall if he had any more. But from reading about these shows, they were all sold out. They were all highly rated, as well.


All of the shows were absolutely riddled with big name stars, international stars and were one off specials. Give me the same budget and I could draw big crowds with it as well.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> He may take what he thinks is wrestling seriously, and that may be our problem. He cannot even be bothered to try and look somewhat serious.
> 
> I am pretty stubborn when it comes to facts. There are plenty of wrestlers I am not a fan of, but I can see why some people might like them. #1 is Cena. I HATE Cena's character more than any other based on the amount he was pushed. He made me stop watching for years. But I can at least understand why children might like him. Guys like Jelly and Marko I just simply cannot understand them appealing to anyone ever.
> 
> ...


that’s how you feel so far enough. Like I said, I’m not here to tell you that your opinion is wrong. It’s your opinion. You might not understand why people draw; they just do.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> that’s how you feel so far enough. Like I said, I’m not here to tell you that your opinion is wrong. It’s your opinion. You might not understand why people draw; they just do.


I am perfectly fine with other people's opinions, and everyone is entitled to them, but no one is entitled to their own facts. Facts are facts. Jelly is not a draw.

If I saw him walking through an airport, I would never bother to take a second glance. I know this is a Vinceism, so not exactly fair, but I think it makes a good point.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He booked a bunch of really popular independent guys on WrestleMania weekend and mixed them with some rare WWE guys and The Great fucking Sasuke who barely ever wrestles outside of Japan. That's why he drew a big house it wasn't because Joey Janela himself was on the bill or because he's some promoting genius.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh shut up you corny sycophant. You don’t have the same name recognition as Janella. Nobody would come work for you or go to a show with your name on it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I am perfectly fine with other people's opinions, and everyone is entitled to them, but no one is entitled to their own facts. Facts are facts. Jelly is not a draw.
> 
> If I saw him walking through an airport, I would never bother to take a second glance. I know this is a Vinceism, so not exactly fair, but I think it makes a good point.


It’s a great point. However, my initial argument was that he is a safe worker, decent jobber, knowledge and successful history of booking. Nobody is saying he’s world champion calibre. I’m certainly not. His determination along with those other posts makes him a decent acquisition and someone you might want on your side for the future - in terms of booking.
Tony Khan is a man of opportunity. Look at his roster. Some guys Vince won’t even look twice at. He will likely give Janella a chance one day to book his own show.

the corny sycophants don’t like him because cornette said so. They are sheep. I don’t like his look, but I’m not against how he came up. Just because it’s not traditional doesn’t mean it’s wrong.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> It’s a great point. However, my initial argument was that he is a safe worker, decent jobber, knowledge and successful history of booking. Nobody is saying he’s world champion calibre. I’m certainly not. His determination along with those other posts makes him a decent acquisition and someone you might want on your side for the future - in terms of booking.
> Tony Khan is a man of opportunity. Look at his roster. Some guys Vince won’t even look twice at. He will likely give Janella a chance one day to book his own show.


I would agree with you if Tony was sending Jelly to QT's school to learn how to work properly and not putting him in more than a basic squash match with Cody. I just really think Tony needs to put his foot down with some of these clowns and not let them do dumb things. Like I said earlier, you think someone like Dusty would look at Jelly as say "OK kid, just go out there and do what you think is good?" There has to be adults in the room regulating the indy trash.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> I would agree with you if Tony was sending Jelly to QT's school to learn how to work properly and not putting him in more than a basic squash match with Cody. I just really think Tony needs to put his foot down with some of these clowns and not let them do dumb things. Like I said earlier, you think someone like Dusty would look at Jelly as say "OK kid, just go out there and do what you think is good?" There has to be adults in the room regulating the indy trash.


I can’t disagree with you, because there’s a lot of goofy things I don’t enjoy. Sometimes I think I’m too old for this shit, lmao.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260007472586125312
Atleast he's trying to look somewhat better?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> I can’t disagree with you, because there’s a lot of goofy things I don’t enjoy. Sometimes I think I’m too old for this shit, lmao.


Yeah, I felt that way for a long time during LOLCENAWINS. But there is something I cannot exactly name that always draws me back in haha.

I say often, even on your favorite episode of your favorite wrestling promotion, something you thought silly happened. Nothing will be perfect.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260007472586125312
> Atleast he's trying to look somewhat better?


I commend this after learning about his learning difficulty. He clearly takes his position seriously. Good on him. 


Lheurch said:


> Yeah, I felt that way for a long time during LOLCENAWINS. But there is something I cannot exactly name that always draws me back in haha.
> 
> I say often, even on your favorite episode of your favorite wrestling promotion, something you thought silly happened. Nothing will be perfect.


If it wasn’t for WF, I wouldn’t be watching tbh. Nice to come here and discuss with others.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> Oh shut up you corny sycophant. You don’t have the same name recognition as Janella. Nobody would come work for you or go to a show with your name on it.


Interesting...

I stand by my point. Give me a 10 thousand dollar talent budget and I could get a big crowd also just like most people on here could. Go book 10-15 big name stars during WrestleMania weekend and you can also have a big crowd.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I stand by my point. Give me a 10 thousand dollar talent budget and I could get a big crowd also just like most people on here could. Go book 10-15 big name stars during WrestleMania weekend and you can also have a big crowd.


 I can give you 10k but it would be wasted. Would rather give it to Janella who knows what he’s doing x. 

and I didn’t realise all of his shows were bolstered to Wrestlemania, my bad.

I also didn’t know that Marko Stunt and OC were big names. Seems to go against your previous agenda.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> I can give you 10k but it would be wasted. Would rather give it to Janella who knows what he’s doing x.
> 
> and I didn’t realise all of his shows were bolstered to Wrestlemania, my bad.
> 
> I also didn’t know that Marko Stunt and OC were big names. Seems to go against your previous agenda.


Ah, the classic assumption game you like to play.

Nobody said Marko and Cassidy were big names but Great Sasuke, Jinsei Shinzaki, Taka Michinoku, Masato Tanaka and all the other big name Japanese guys he uses every show are draws especially when they don't leave Japan that often.

Then throw in all the big name independent guys and the former WWE Superstars including one event that had Hollywood movie actor David Arquette and you have the reasoning why he draws. Not saying he doesn't work hard to draw that crowd in but it's certainly easier when you fill the shows with guys who all have some kind of name value even if it is just AEW comedy guys.

I've mentioned it before but can't hurt to bring it up again. Local independent in my town uses Orlando Jordan once or twice a year and every time he comes in it's a significant boost to their attendance. I'm sure they'd draw huge numbers if they had like 10 famous wrestlers on the bill also.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I stand by my point. Give me a 10 thousand dollar talent budget and I could get a big crowd also just like most people on here could. Go book 10-15 big name stars during WrestleMania weekend and you can also have a big crowd.


No you can't. You need to also be able to market the event and have a respectable following to make bookings. Don't just think you can pay a wrestler for a booking and they will do it, they probably want to know your credentials and who you are and you need a venue. You also need to have proper bookers. Don't think a wrestler is going let some random dude book matches for them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> No you can't. You need to also be able to market the event and have a respectable following to make bookings. Don't just think you can pay a wrestler for a booking and they will do it, they probably want to know your credentials and who you are and you need a venue. You also need to have proper bookers. Don't think a wrestler is going let some random dude book matches for them.


You don't know how it works my friend. Wrestlers take bookings from random dudes literally all the time on the indies which is why you will occasionally read a story about a wrestler going to a town and getting screwed over on a payday or something like that. Dodgy operators who don't know what they're doing.

The booking process for getting a name talent is as simple as getting their E-Mail, telling them where the show is, working out a deal, paying their price and covering accommodation/transport. The only guys Janela books that would be picky would be David Arquette and the Japanese guys. Guys like Rock N'Roll Express and Hornswoggle will work for anyone with money.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't know how it works my friend. Wrestlers take bookings from random dudes literally all the time on the indies which is why you will occasionally read a story about a wrestler going to a town and getting screwed over on a payday or something like that. Dodgy operators who don't know what they're doing.
> 
> The booking process for getting a name talent is as simple as getting their E-Mail, telling them where the show is, working out a deal, paying their price and covering accommodation/transport. The only guys Janela books that would be picky would be David Arquette and the Japanese guys. Guys like Rock N'Roll Express and Hornswoggle will work for anyone with money.


That doesn't work for big names. Tell you what, get Kenny Omegas email and email him a booking and tell him you will offer $100,000 for one match. Let me know what he replies to you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

13 pages of butthurt neckbeards complaining about a guy more successful than they’ll ever be

fuck, I don’t even like the guy much, but i understand his place on the card and in the business

you’ll hear a lot of praise for his creative input and scouting

half the wrestlers here he found and helped put on the map with his spring break shows

geez.... you know a guy has potential when he can unlock this level of hate and bias


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> It’s a great point. However, my initial argument was that he is a safe worker, decent jobber, knowledge and successful history of booking. Nobody is saying he’s world champion calibre. I’m certainly not. His determination along with those other posts makes him a decent acquisition and someone you might want on your side for the future - in terms of booking.
> Tony Khan is a man of opportunity. Look at his roster. Some guys Vince won’t even look twice at. He will likely give Janella a chance one day to book his own show.
> 
> the corny sycophants don’t like him because cornette said so. They are sheep. I don’t like his look, but I’m not against how he came up. Just because it’s not traditional doesn’t mean it’s wrong.


smarks want wrestlers to ‘pay their dues’ brother, with all the other young guns in Cornette’s jacuzzi 

gotta pay dem dues bbbrrrooottthherrrr


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 13 pages of butthurt neckbeards complaining about a guy more successful than they’ll ever be
> 
> fuck, I don’t even like the guy much, but i understand his place on the card and in the business
> 
> ...


This. He has value and has a place on the roster. They just want to see him fired for whatever reason. It's also not only the fact that he is a good filler wrestler, but also that he has value outside of the ring being somewhat of a scout.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

" I don't like him, he should be fired"
If that's how it worked then the roster would have 4 people.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> That doesn't work for big names. Tell you what, get Kenny Omegas email and email him a booking and tell him you will offer $100,000 for one match. Let me know what he replies to you.


Yeah, Kenny is in a situation where he very rarely works indies now because he's presumably making at least a few thousand a week from AEW and doesn't need to anymore. Same with Cody and The Bucks they all likely aren't working an independent unless they know you and even then it'd probably be only as a favour no argument there. 100,000 would probably be enough to sway the guy though but it's such a high rate for one match that he'd probably assume it's a joke.

Majority of the guys who aren't contracted wrestling stars will work for anyone with money though. About a decade ago I saw Raven (Who was with TNA at the time) working for a random promoter here in Australia in front of maybe 50-60 people, the promoter had no reputation and Raven was in a match with just local indy guys who didn't have much talent at all.He was there because he was getting paid to be there it's as simple as that.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, Kenny is in a situation where he very rarely works indies now because he's presumably making at least a few thousand a week from AEW and doesn't need to anymore. Same with Cody and The Bucks they all likely aren't working an independent unless they know you and even then it'd probably be only as a favour no argument there. 100,000 would probably be enough to sway the guy though but it's such a high rate for one match that he'd probably assume it's a joke.
> 
> Majority of the guys who aren't contracted wrestling stars will work for anyone with money though. About a decade ago I saw Raven (Who was with TNA at the time) working for a random promoter here in Australia in front of maybe 50-60 people, the promoter had no reputation and Raven was in a match with just local indy guys who didn't have much talent at all.He was there because he was getting paid to be there it's as simple as that.


Raven huh... that outta draw in a good 30 people


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> smarks want wrestlers to ‘pay their dues’ brother, with all the other young guns in Cornette’s jacuzzi
> 
> gotta pay dem dues bbbrrrooottthherrrr


Sorry to break the news to you pal, but you're here posting regularly on a wrestling forum, you too are a smark.

And to reiterate again, the guy lied his way into the business; his ADHD doesn't excuse this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> Raven huh... that outta draw in a good 30 people


I went to see him but yeah he obviously wasn't much of a draw.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 13 pages of butthurt neckbeards complaining about a guy more successful than they’ll ever be
> 
> fuck, I don’t even like the guy much, but i understand his place on the card and in the business
> 
> ...


Whether he is good at creative or scouting is a separate argument. I have no idea either way on that. All I know is he sucks as a worker and apparently has been around long enough to have no excuses for how bad he is.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> Whether he is good at creative or scouting is a separate argument. I have no idea either way on that. All I know is he sucks as a worker and apparently has been around long enough to have no excuses for how bad he is.


You make it sound like he's terrible in the ring. lol


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> You make it sound like he's terrible in the ring. lol


I do not need to make it sound like anything. I have eyes and he is astoundingly mediocre. And he looks like a slob no one could ever consider a threat.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> I do not need to make it sound like anything. I have eyes and he is astoundingly mediocre. And he looks like a slob no one could ever consider a threat.


To me he is average to good. You are right in that he is not great but I don't think he is offensively bad or painful to watch. He's enjoyable to me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> Sorry to break the news to you pal, but you're here posting regularly on a wrestling forum, you too are a smark.
> 
> And to reiterate again, the guy lied his way into the business; his ADHD doesn't excuse this.


of course i’m a fucking smark - all the wrestling fans are smarks, the cat is out the bag

yet, you chaps are here advocating a guy shouldn’t have a job, that his peers praise him for being good at, and valuable in, because ‘bOdY tYpE jElLy’

and boohoo about lying to get ahead - it is the American way, no? Get on top no matter what. Is your own cv 100% truthful?

edit> ‘fake it till you make it‘ is a legit saying in the US 🤷‍♂️


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> To me he is average to good. You are right in that he is not great but I don't think he is offensively bad or painful to watch. He's enjoyable to me.


If you think he is good, I would be interested in who you think is bad.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> If you think he is good, I would be interested in who you think is bad.


I didn't say he was good, I said average to good. That means he's good at his best but average at his worst. He falls mostly in between being a slightly above average wrestler. Nothing he does really screams bad to me. I'll give you bad, Mojo Rawley.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I didn't say he was good, I said average to good. That means he's good at his best but average at his worst. He falls mostly in between being a slightly above average wrestler. Nothing he does really screams bad to me. I'll give you bad, Mojo Rawley.


So again, why is an average wrestler in All ELITE Wrestling?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I didn't say he was good, I said average to good. That means he's good at his best but average at his worst. He falls mostly in between being a slightly above average wrestler. Nothing he does really screams bad to me. I'll give you bad, Mojo Rawley.


His physical look screams "not an athlete" and he could easily fix it. Why defend mediocrity?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and boohoo about lying to get ahead - it is the American way, no? Get on top no matter what. Is your own cv 100% truthful?


That's all I needed to hear. 

"What's that doc? you dont actually have a medical degree, and they still let you operate on me? What a true patriot you are."


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So again, why is an average wrestler in All ELITE Wrestling?


Because he can be good at times, has good matches that serve as filler, has value outside of the ring creatively. Yeah because no average wrestler should ever be employed. I said above average btw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> That's all I needed to hear.


..... ok? Glad to be of help


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... ok? Glad to be of help


It's cool, just don't ever criticize anything or anyone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's cool, just don't ever criticize anything or anyone.


i tell you what i won’t do - i won’t hold a sin of yonks years against somebody to invalidate all their accomplishments since then

that is too close to cancel-culture for my liking


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I stand by my point. Give me a 10 thousand dollar talent budget and I could get a big crowd also just like most people on here could. Go book 10-15 big name stars during WrestleMania weekend and you can also have a big crowd.


Janela's 2019 shows sold out many months before & without anybody else on card being named!
So you going to run a show next year if it's so easy to have success?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i tell you what i won’t do - i won’t hold a sin of yonks years against somebody to invalidate all their accomplishments since then
> 
> that is too close to cancel-culture for my liking


Okay, but would you go about taking the sin of yonks years, and then go on to celebrate that sin?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Janela's 2019 shows sold out many months before & without anybody else on card being named!
> So you going to run a show next year if it's so easy to have success?


I'm not going into who would sell out first because obviously Janela is more famous than me and has bigger reach. My argument is simply that I (And most on here) could draw a big crowd with 10 former TV talents and a bunch of indy darlings.

In regards to running shows who says I haven't? For all you know I could be a promoter who just comes here to chat as a fan. I brought up this point the other day in the ratings thread and said there were probably many experts amongst us who don't let on that they are experts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> Okay, but would you go about taking the sin of yonks years, and then go on to celebrate that sin?


i’m not celebrating it - i’m saying it is a cultural mindset in the US that is pretty apparent - ‘fake it till you make it’

personally.... i’m 🤷‍♂️ towards it. His 16 years in the business and commendations by his peers and current position obviously proved him right

he faked it, then he made it.

should he be put on a pedestal for it? No. Should he be crucified, all his accomplishments wiped from the map and relegated to flipping burgers at the local McD’s because of it? Well, no.

he should just do what he does, as long as they allow him to do it and try to get better along the way


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm not going into who would sell out first because obviously Janela is more famous than me and has bigger reach. My argument is simply that I (And most on here) could draw a big crowd with 10 former TV talents and a bunch of indy darlings.
> 
> In regards to running shows who says I haven't? For all you know I could be a promoter who just comes here to chat as a fan. I brought up this point the other day in the ratings thread and said there were probably many experts amongst us who don't let on that they are experts.


I know because today there are only a handful of promoters who draw the numbers Janela did at wm. First hand I know the indy scene in Australia is dead.
I also know anonymous ppl online who claim to be great usually live in their mum's basement


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> I know because today there are only a handful of promoters who draw the numbers Janela did at wm. First hand I know the indy scene in Australia is dead.
> I also know anonymous ppl online who claim to be great usually live in their mum's basement


I'm not claiming I'm great just saying you never know who you're talking to. Office staff from WWE could post here and we'd be none the wiser.

Independent scene in Australia is flourishing I encourage you give it a look especially if you're NSW or Victoria based.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m not celebrating it - i’m saying it is a cultural mindset in the US that is pretty apparent - ‘fake it till you make it’
> 
> personally.... i’m 🤷‍♂️ towards it. His 16 years in the business and commendations by his peers and current position obviously proved him right
> 
> ...


I'm not saying you're personally celebrating it; it's good that you don't. The problem is AEW promoted this in their top 10 fun facts on the guy as if it was nothing. I despise cancel culture, and in no way advocate for it; everyone deserves due process, and in the event that they are found guilty of an act, then it's up to the law or given organization to take care of the matter, not the twitter mob. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

My issue with this pertains to a few things. If say, a doctor or an engineer were to lie about their credentials to get their foot in the door, the medical field/engineering higher ups would undoubtedly see to it that the person were held accountable in some way once they found out the truth. It's no secret at this point that Janela did what he did, and yet the wrestling industry just shrugs it off (outside of people like Cornette, etc. who I don't care about btw) and gives him a platform like this. To me, it shows that the wrestling industry possesses a lack of integrity and its bothersome to put it kindly.

The other thing is that he has seemingly made no effort to hold himself accountable for this by going out and getting formal training after he had already gotten his foot in the door; had he done this, this whole thing would be much less of a big deal to me. As much as I am not a fan of the guy at all, I will give him this much; for a guy with zero wrestling training, he really should be much worse than he is; however, no matter how good an untrained talent is, the fact is that they will always be better with proper training, which means he's not making an effort to maximize whatever potential he has. Lastly, he did manage to drop a bit of weight, and while still flabby and possessing a terrible physique, it's a slight bit better than it was; we'll see if it lasts, but even so, he still has a way to go.

That's all I have to say at this point. If you're a fan of the guy then great, but I'm not, and I've stated my reasons why, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> No you can't. You need to also be able to market the event and have a respectable following to make bookings. Don't just think you can pay a wrestler for a booking and they will do it, they probably want to know your credentials and who you are and you need a venue. You also need to have proper bookers. Don't think a wrestler is going let some random dude book matches for them.


Easy. Have it in Chicago and name drop CM Punk in a few tweets just like AEW did


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260007472586125312
> Atleast he's trying to look somewhat better?


He's done this before. It lasted a week


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Erik. said:


> To be fair to him, his events are usually booked well.
> 
> Spring Break is usually one of the best events on Wrestlemania weekend and this year it was the best sold event outside of ones by WWE.


Are you able to give me an example of his booking that doesn't include throwing two big names into a one off match please? The conversation about his booking shouldn't move forward until this question is acknowledged.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Are you able to give me an example of his booking that doesn't include throwing two big names into a one off match please? The conversation about his booking shouldn't move forward until this question is acknowledged.


This.

Give me 10k I'll book The Great Sasuke against Christopher Daniels during WrestleMania weekend and they'll have an awesome match. I will then somehow magically be a good booker based on the fact that I knew to put two good experienced wrestlers together.

Booking is so much more and to be honest having not seen his shows but reading the results he doesn't seem that well versed in show structure and everything seems to be thrown all over the place. Not a guy I'd call a good booker to be honest.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> This.
> 
> Give me 10k I'll book The Great Sasuke against Christopher Daniels during WrestleMania weekend and they'll have an awesome match. I will then somehow magically be a good booker based on the fact that I knew to put two good experienced wrestlers together.
> 
> Booking is so much more and to be honest having not seen his shows but reading the results he doesn't seem that well versed in show structure and everything seems to be thrown all over the place. Not a guy I'd call a good booker to be honest.


Look at these nobodies boasting how easy it is to promote an Indy show & how much money they'd make if they could, ignoring the dozens of experienced operators at wm & hundreds throughout na who don't come close to matching spring break numbers.
It's like the guy working at bunnings boasting about how he could play pro sports if he tried.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> This.
> 
> Give me 10k I'll book The Great Sasuke against Christopher Daniels during WrestleMania weekend and they'll have an awesome match. I will then somehow magically be a good booker based on the fact that I knew to put two good experienced wrestlers together.
> 
> Booking is so much more and to be honest having not seen his shows but reading the results he doesn't seem that well versed in show structure and everything seems to be thrown all over the place. Not a guy I'd call a good booker to be honest.


I have no faith that this will get answered because I asked it earlier and it was avoided. Amazing how many times this happens with this group of fans


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> I have no faith that this will get answered because I asked it earlier and it was avoided. Amazing how many times this happens with this group of fans


Great Sasuke vs. Christopher Daniels? Oh, this could be good, I've always wanted to see...wait, who's organizing the event? Tim Jones? Fuck it then. Yeah, this doesn't happen.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Look at these nobodies boasting how easy it is to promote an Indy show & how much money they'd make if they could, ignoring the dozens of experienced operators at wm & hundreds throughout na who don't come close to matching spring break numbers.
> It's like the guy working at bunnings boasting about how he could play pro sports if he tried.


Never said I'd make money. That's my point, Janela is running these shows, could potentially be losing his ass every show and you guys are praising him as some kind of promoting genius.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm not saying you're personally celebrating it; it's good that you don't. The problem is AEW promoted this in their top 10 fun facts on the guy as if it was nothing. I despise cancel culture, and in no way advocate for it; everyone deserves due process, and in the event that they are found guilty of an act, then it's up to the law or given organization to take care of the matter, not the twitter mob. Those are my thoughts on the matter.
> 
> My issue with this pertains to a few things. If say, a doctor or an engineer were to lie about their credentials to get their foot in the door, the medical field/engineering higher ups would undoubtedly see to it that the person were held accountable in some way once they found out the truth. It's no secret at this point that Janela did what he did, and yet the wrestling industry just shrugs it off (outside of people like Cornette, etc. who I don't care about btw) and gives him a platform like this. To me, it shows that the wrestling industry possesses a lack of integrity and its bothersome to put it kindly.
> 
> ...


I wish I could have given this several thumb ups. 

Just to add to the overall convo in the thread going on, being properly trained isn't just about working safe either, it's about learning respect for the business and the people in it and learning some humility. I thought I was tough shit until I had been trained and went home to take a soak in the tub and couldn't get out and I had to have my dad help pull my naked ass out of the tub, not to mention the burning welts from running the ropes and the massive headaches from trying to learn how to bump. That changes and humbles a man and shows him how insignificant he is and how we have many limitations to conquer. Most people don't make it past that because it's either too painful or too humiliating to the ego. That's the type of system that separates the wheat from the chaff, the people who are hungry will stick around while the ones who don't take it seriously will not. This is a big part of what "paying your dues" is about. It's not just about getting beaten up like a lot of snowflakes try to twist it around like it's just abuse and bullying, it's about making a man out of someone and toughening them up and teaching them their shortcomings so they can fight on and press forward and overcome these shortcomings. Many of the lessons I learned in pro wrestling I now pass on to the MMA fighters that I train. I just can't take anyone seriously that hasn't learned and been taught these things, especially if they are on national TV.

IF, and that's a big IF, Jelly is telling the truth and he has had proper training then he should still be ashamed for his appearance, attitude, and performances right now but I will at the very least retract the severity of my earlier statements. If he's lying yet again then all I can do is not support him or the companies he works for and hope he man's up some day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm not saying you're personally celebrating it; it's good that you don't. The problem is AEW promoted this in their top 10 fun facts on the guy as if it was nothing. I despise cancel culture, and in no way advocate for it; everyone deserves due process, and in the event that they are found guilty of an act, then it's up to the law or given organization to take care of the matter, not the twitter mob. Those are my thoughts on the matter.
> 
> My issue with this pertains to a few things. If say, a doctor or an engineer were to lie about their credentials to get their foot in the door, the medical field/engineering higher ups would undoubtedly see to it that the person were held accountable in some way once they found out the truth. It's no secret at this point that Janela did what he did, and yet the wrestling industry just shrugs it off (outside of people like Cornette, etc. who I don't care about btw) and gives him a platform like this. To me, it shows that the wrestling industry possesses a lack of integrity and its bothersome to put it kindly.
> 
> ...


well-thought out points

some counter arguments

1. I think we can agree there is a huge difference between a wrestler and a doctor / engineer. This is more akin to a guy lying and saying ‘yeah, i’ve juggled before - let me join your circus’

2. Yes, it is a scummy industry - we have more than enough proof of that

3. You cannot call him untrained anymore. If a guy lied about juggling, joined a circus, and proceeded to do a juggling show every day with other jugglers and did so for the next 16 years becoming a competent juggler - then the guy can undoubtably juggle and is a juggler. especially if all the other jugglers say so.

4. I’m not a fan of the guy. He can be on DARK and have the odd story here and there. I simply understand his place on the card. Now, if he was in line for the Champ we could have a different convo about the merits of that. But i don’t think he ‘doesn’t belong’- either on this roster, or in the business.

people smarter than me / ie> other jugglers  - has said he belongs, and praised him for his ability, creative input and scouting ability.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

BigCy said:


> I wish I could have given this several thumb ups.
> 
> Just to add to the overall convo in the thread going on, being properly trained isn't just about working safe either, it's about learning respect for the business and the people in it and learning some humility. I thought I was tough shit until I had been trained and went home to take a soak in the tub and couldn't get out and I had to have my dad help pull my naked ass out of the tub, not to mention the burning welts from running the ropes and the massive headaches from trying to learn how to bump. That changes and humbles a man and shows him how insignificant he is and how we have many limitations to conquer. Most people don't make it past that because it's either too painful or too humiliating to the ego. That's the type of system that separates the wheat from the chaff, the people who are hungry will stick around while the ones who don't take it seriously will not. This is a big part of what "paying your dues" is about. It's not just about getting beaten up like a lot of snowflakes try to twist it around like it's just abuse and bullying, it's about making a man out of someone and toughening them up and teaching them their shortcomings so they can fight on and press forward and overcome these shortcomings. Many of the lessons I learned in pro wrestling I now pass on to the MMA fighters that I train. I just can't take anyone seriously that hasn't learned and been taught these things, especially if they are on national TV.
> 
> IF, and that's a big IF, Jelly is telling the truth and he has had proper training then he should still be ashamed for his appearance, attitude, and performances right now but I will at the very least retract the severity of my earlier statements. If he's lying yet again then all I can do is not support him or the companies he works for and hope he man's up some day.


This sounds commendable and all; but please my guy, this sounds like a load of words you’ve strung together to make it sound more than it actually is. You can learn a lot of this while on the job. If you watch his documentary, he said he wasn’t able to afford to go to a wrestling school; he started as a ringrat and trained while he was putting rings together.

Some people just have greater drive to succeed than others.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> You're smarter than this bro. You know that a lot of misinformation gets spread online. You should consider all the bits of evidence, rather than believing the misinformation spread by Cornette. Cmon, don't be so dumb!


I can see Janela suck with my own eyes. 



optikk sucks said:


> Bro, come on. Stop being such a Corny sycophant! It clearly says that he did not follow the traditional wrestling training pathway. You spoke on the Hardys earlier. Janella followed a similar pathway. One of your sources is 3 years old. It is irrelevant for today.
> I also appreciate that he lied to get further. Impressive that he has landed an AEW contract and has had matches with everyone from Moxley to Rhodes, without injuring anyone. Can't be said for those who have been down the tradtional route. Maybe his untraditional training has suited him better than traditional training, which statistically is more dangerous it seems.


Well, this is a credibility killer. optikk actually appreciates Janela lies about being trained so he can potentially cripple people. Honestly, that is pretty disgusting. I hope you didn’t mean it the way you said it. 



Pippen94 said:


> People backtracking now - gone from he can't work to he can work, but I don't like his work. Fact nobody can detail what's so offensive about he does in ring shows this is just an argument borrowed from somebody else


No one is backtracking. Janela can’t work. The only people who think he can are the people in the psychology thread who don’t know what psychology is.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> I can see Janela suck with my own eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Statistically, he is safer than Seth Rollins, Samoa Joe etc. But hey, I’m only looking at facts and not “what ifs” like you enjoy doing. I thought you’re smarter than this bro, lol.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> No one is backtracking. Janela can’t work. The only people who think he can are the people in the psychology thread who don’t know what psychology is.


And not surprisingly they the same people who argue every single criticism that's been had about AEW.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Are you able to give me an example of his booking that doesn't include throwing two big names into a one off match please? The conversation about his booking shouldn't move forward until this question is acknowledged.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Cult03 said:


>


Why don’t you go do this instead of posting spongebob memes, insulting the intelligence and talking down to other posters, please? Your internet points are much higher than the rest of ours bro. Energy drainer, my guy. Have a good day.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> Why don’t you go do this instead of posting spongebob memes, insulting the intelligence and talking down to other posters, please? Your internet points are much higher than the rest of ours bro. Energy drainer, my guy. Have a good day.


Every fucking time


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> Statistically, he is safer than Seth Rollins, Samoa Joe etc. But hey, I’m only looking at facts and not “what ifs” like you enjoy doing. I thought you’re smarter than this bro, lol.


How many matches has Joey Janela had compared to Seth Rollins and Samoa Joe. Who has Samoa Joe even hurt? Are you referring to Tyson Kidd, because I don’t think that was even a botch. Janela botches something almost every time he is out there, doesn’t he? Didn’t he do something to fuck up Fenix right before the cruise? And he fucked up his headstand spot last week. He almost killed himself his first night in the company. Where is this “safe” talk coming from?

None of that even has anything to do with whether or not it looks shit. And it does look shit. But I know I’d rather work with Seth or Joe than Janela.



optikk sucks said:


> Why don’t you go do this instead of posting spongebob memes, insulting the intelligence and talking down to other posters, please? Your internet points are much higher than the rest of ours bro. Energy drainer, my guy. Have a good day.


That addresses absolutely nothing. You’re proving the point.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> How many matches has Joey Janela had compared to Seth Rollins and Samoa Joe. Who has Samoa Joe even hurt? Are you referring to Tyson Kidd, because I don’t think that was even a botch. Janela botches something almost every time he is out there, doesn’t he? Didn’t he do something to fuck up Fenix right before the cruise? And he fucked up his headstand spot last week. He almost killed himself his first night in the company. Where is this “safe” talk coming from?
> 
> None of that even has anything to do with whether or not it looks shit. And it does look shit. But I know I’d rather work with Seth or Joe than Janela.
> 
> ...


keyword: statistically, lol. What you said proves nothing. Botches occur in all matches at any time. Taker recently botched something and how many matches has he under his sleeve? Ok , not the best example since he’s an old fart. But AJ has botched many times. Does that make him any less qualified? Have you seen Botchamania? It consists of your favourite traditionally trained stars.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> keyword: statistically, lol. What you said proves nothing. Botches occur in all matches at any time. Taker recently botched something and how many matches has he under his sleeve?


Yeah, that’s what I’m asking you, lol. If Seth Rollins has had 10k matches and Janela has had 500, then Janela might fuck up 30% and Rollins might only fuck up 1%.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, that’s what I’m asking you, lol. If Seth Rollins has had 10k matches and Janela has had 500, then Janela might fuck up 30% and Rollins might only fuck up 1%.


Rollins has had 1k, Janella has had 600.
Go look it up if you don’t believe me, lol. Statistically, Rollins with his traditional training is more dangerous than Janella. Of course, Rollins works a far more gruelling schedule so is more prone to mistakes. But statistically, Janella is a safer worker.
I’d work with neither of these guys and I’d work with Orton instead, since he’s generally classed as one of the most safe workers in wrestling. But hey, if you want to be injured, go ahead and work with Rollins 🤷🏾‍♂️


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> Rollins has had 1k, Janella has had 600.
> Go look it up if you don’t believe me, lol. Statistically, Rollins with his traditional training is more dangerous than Janella. Of course, Rollins works a far more gruelling schedule so is more prone to mistakes. But statistically, Janella is a safer worker.
> I’d work with neither of these guys and I’d work with Orton instead, since he’s generally classed as one of the most safe workers in wrestling. But hey, if you want to be injured, go ahead and work with Rollins 🤷🏾‍♂️


I wasn’t using literal numbers, hahaha. Try and follow the bouncing ball. I’m sure Rollins would be closer to 2,000. Started his career in 2005. 3 matches a year, on average. He’s probably done a lot more in training and in seminars, etc. 500 seems about right for Janela. 1 a week since 2006.

But even using your “statistics,” Rollins would need to fuck up twice as much as Janela to be as statistically unsafe. Yeah, I doubt that happens.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> Rollins has had 1k, Janella has had 600.
> Go look it up if you don’t believe me, lol. Statistically, Rollins with his traditional training is more dangerous than Janella. Of course, Rollins works a far more gruelling schedule so is more prone to mistakes. But statistically, Janella is a safer worker.
> I’d work with neither of these guys and I’d work with Orton instead, since he’s generally classed as one of the most safe workers in wrestling. But hey, if you want to be injured, go ahead and work with Rollins 🤷🏾‍♂️


i heard he’s so unsafe, he put Becky on the shelf for almost a year


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Janela is also a lot more awkward to watch and did I mention that HE FUCKING SUCKS! I wouldn’t care if he didn’t drop himself on his head a bunch, or if he’s never hurt anyone with his stupidity (don’t believe that for a second though). He is fucking awful.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

The Wood said:


> I wasn’t using literal numbers, hahaha. Try and follow the bouncing ball. I’m sure Rollins would be closer to 2,000. Started his career in 2005. 3 matches a year, on average. He’s probably done a lot more in training and in seminars, etc. 500 seems about right for Janela. 1 a week since 2006.
> 
> But even using your “statistics,” Rollins would need to fuck up twice as much as Janela to be as statistically unsafe. Yeah, I doubt that happens.


But the word statistically means statistically. Janela started his career not long after Rollins. I’m only going off the facts presented in front of me, not the “what if Rollins has had more matches?” Or “theoretically, Rollins would have to fuck up twice”. I don’t understand how you can debate the facts, lol. I never even gave my own opinion man.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i heard he’s so unsafe, he put Becky on the shelf for almost a year


Lmaooo
Did you watch raw? Dude is unhinged. Hope he gets crazier with it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> Lmaooo
> Did you watch raw? Dude is unhinged. Hope he gets crazier with it.


Nah, haven’t watched any WWE in over a year

just saw the news on twitter


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

If aew had cruiserweight/lightweight division would janela being on the roster be such a big issue? I mean he's no marko stunt which the only real guy on the roster I look at and think get him away from an aew ring as it looks too fucking ridiculous, janela just has a bit of a rubbish generic look about him but is decent in the ring otherwise he wouldnt be able to put on passable 10+ minute matches with the likes of moxley, cody etc..


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Janela should be used as a squash match jobber, nothing more.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> But the word statistically means statistically. Janela started his career not long after Rollins. I’m only going off the facts presented in front of me, not the “what if Rollins has had more matches?” Or “theoretically, Rollins would have to fuck up twice”. I don’t understand how you can debate the facts, lol. I never even gave my own opinion man.


What the fuck do you think statistics are? 

If Rollins has wrestled far more matches than Janela and they were as safe as each other, then it goes to figure Rollins would have injured far more people, right? Just because Rollins has injured more people (citation needed), it doesn't mean he is statistically more unsafe. If someone wrestles three matches and injures someone in each one, then they are at a 100% rate of injury. That's bad. If someone wrestles 500 people and injures five, then they have an injury rate of 1%. Statistically, the guy batting 0 is way more dangerous than the guy batting 99/100.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Plus we aren't taking into account that Joey Janela hurts my eyes every time I see a picture of him


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Plus we aren't taking into account that Joey Janela hurts my eyes every time I see a picture of him


I should report you for bullying with that pic you posted earlier in the thread.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> I should report you for bullying with that pic you posted earlier in the thread.


Well apparently I'm already the big bad bully of the forum


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

After tonight's show, as bad as Janela's physique looks, I think Chuck Taylor takes the cake (literally). I legitimately saw his man boobs jiggle every time he executed a move or took a bump, and him flexing while wearing those tights with the haircut of a five year old, makes it seem like he's just taking the piss.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> After tonight's show, as bad as Janela's physique looks, I think Chuck Taylor takes the cake (literally).


If they ever have a one on one match everyone here is going to read about our suicides the next day.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

16 pages for Joey Janela on a dead forum. The guy is more popular than I thought.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

prosperwithdeen said:


> 16 pages for Joey Janela on a dead forum. The guy is more popular than I thought.


4 people going round in circles does not equate to popularity. And half of the pages are calling out certain posters for their inability to see a problem with Janela. The way you guys spin stuff is getting fucking weird, man.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> 4 people going round in circles does not equate to popularity. And half of the pages are calling out certain posters for their inability to see a problem with Janela. The way you guys spin stuff is getting fucking weird, man.


It's funny because "fans" are more concerned with hoping to see certain things happen (like Pineapple Pete pinning Jericho) just to see certain posters get salty, rather than the product figuring things out and putting on compelling television. I'd argue that the "Corny sycophants" and "WWE fanboys" actually care more for this product, ironically enough.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Cult03 said:


> 4 people going round in circles does not equate to popularity. And half of the pages are calling out certain posters for their inability to see a problem with Janela. The way you guys spin stuff is getting fucking weird, man.


No one is spinning anything, if you think I or anyone else is gonna sift through 16 pages of Joey Janela convo to get the "gist" of the topic, then you're crazy. I had no idea it was only a few people arguing for days on end. Why would anyone from the outside looking in think that?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

prosperwithdeen said:


> No one is spinning anything, if you think I or anyone else is gonna sift through 16 pages of Joey Janela convo to get the "gist" of the topic, then you're crazy. I had no idea it was only a few people arguing for days on end. Why would anyone from the outside looking in think that?


You're spinning a bunch of off topic conversations and people unwilling to admit Janela is below average, in turn creating 16 pages into "HE'S SO POPULAR OMG".


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's funny because "fans" are more concerned with hoping to see certain things happen (like Pineapple Pete pinning Jericho) just to see certain posters get salty, rather than the product figuring things out and putting on compelling television. I'd argue that the "Corny sycophants" and "WWE fanboys" actually care more for this product, ironically enough.


I've been saying this for a while. The criticisms help the product. Saying everything is amazing does not. We are the actual fans and they are sycophants and Yes Men, which is exactly how WWE has become the shitty show it is now.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Cult03 said:


> You're spinning a bunch of off topic conversations and people unwilling to admit Janela is below average, in turn creating 16 pages into "HE'S SO POPULAR OMG".


Again, I didn't read the thread. But it seems like you were one of the main participants with that little shot at Janela. And saying Janela is popular was sarcasm. Of course he's not popular. The guy was getting no reactions from the live crowd OR the internet.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Again, I didn't read the thread. But it seems like you were one of the main participants with that little shot at Janela. And saying Janela is popular was sarcasm. Of course he's not popular. The guy was getting no reactions from the live crowd OR the internet.


So you went off half cocked, realized you were wrong and are now admitting fault? I applaud that.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Cult03 said:


> So you went off half cocked, realized you were wrong and are now admitting fault? I applaud that.


Admitting fault? No simply pointing out your clear failure and inability to see sarcasm when it's clear as day.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Admitting fault? No simply pointing out your clear failure and inability to see sarcasm when it's clear as day.


Well seeing as you didn't bother reading the thread to gain an understanding of why this page has 16 pages, you'd realize that the people you usually agree with are arguing that he is in fact popular. Therefore you're just parroting exactly what they're saying and it would be almost impossible to realize you were being sarcastic.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> 16 pages for Joey Janela on a dead forum. The guy is more popular than I thought.


I actually like the discussion here, but if it is considered "dead," I'd say that's got a lot to do with AEW not delivering on the hype. And I don't think you know what "popular" means. He's getting absolutely roasted even by the people who are apparently upset he is getting roasted. 

"I'm no fan" 
"He's a goof"

Those are actual quotes from people who are arguing _for_ him.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I actually like the discussion here, but if it is considered "dead," I'd say that's got a lot to do with AEW not delivering on the hype. And I don't think you know what "popular" means. He's getting absolutely roasted even by the people who are apparently upset he is getting roasted.
> 
> "I'm no fan"
> "He's a goof"
> ...


Exactly. As I have said many times, people have argued many things on here, but no one has ever said Marko or Jelly are actually above average.

We have a group of people who defend bottom feeders and other than being paid I cannot understand the motivation.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I actually like the discussion here, but if it is considered "dead," I'd say that's got a lot to do with AEW not delivering on the hype. And I don't think you know what "popular" means. He's getting absolutely roasted even by the people who are apparently upset he is getting roasted.
> 
> "I'm no fan"
> "He's a goof"
> ...


It is funny since our points are that certain people suck. And the common arguments against our positions are generally: "eh, they are not all bad right? All humans deserve respect" or some similar noise. I want one of those people to be picked up by someone who's lifetime dream it was to be a paramedic but did not quite make it. Maybe they really care about saving lives, but they think CPR is overrated and only hardcore fans care about that. Anyone can breathe right? Why highlight the best breathers? We might as well watch a show about how to breathe if anyone can do anything.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The main defense seems to be that they aren't in the main events. They've been so conditioned by the WWE that nothing outside the main event matters that you might as well throw shit at the wall underneath and who cares? Imagine if a movie only got good in the last 20 minutes. There's a saying about that.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> The main defense seems to be that they aren't in the main events. They've been so conditioned by the WWE that nothing outside the main event matters that you might as well throw shit at the wall underneath and who cares? Imagine if a movie only got good in the last 20 minutes. There's a saying about that.


Maybe they can let me know exactly what minute Marko Stunt should embarrass me? Does he have a certain immunity before 9pm EDT? Obviously I am not asking you specifically, but the Defenders of the Dumb as I will call them now. The stupid is spreading and many people on here have been infected. Who wants to have a proper discussion?


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## domotime2 (Apr 28, 2014)

One of the biggest AEW marks their is and i agree. I will even say i think he's my legit #1 most hated guy on the roster. He doesn't offer anything.


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## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

optikk sucks said:


> This sounds commendable and all; but please my guy, this sounds like a load of words you’ve strung together to make it sound more than it actually is. You can learn a lot of this while on the job. If you watch his documentary, he said he wasn’t able to afford to go to a wrestling school; he started as a ringrat and trained while he was putting rings together.
> 
> Some people just have greater drive to succeed than others.


I'll admit I was a bit wordy with it but I get very passionate about the subject of people being trained properly and trying to look the part. I might watch the documentary but anyone who makes a doc about themselves will obviously spin it to make themselves look good but if by "ringrat" you mean one of THOSE ringrats then I doubt I'll be watching the doc. Bottom line, the guy lied to get his foot in the door, I didn't, many others I know didn't, either way you spin it the guy is shady.


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