# Randy Orton



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I agree that Orton's given FUCK ALL to do by creative he's just drifting into feuds mostly with no reason


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## Batz (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Because he treats everyone else like shit? Or so I've heard.


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## TheSupremeForce (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

This HAS to be a troll post. Otherwise, I'm too disgusted to know whether to laugh or cry. 
I don't want to consider that now that Orton is actually losing once in a while, people are going to start crying about it. The top faces NEED to lose more often. It's the only way of making heels credible again. Look at what Orton did for Henry. Orton losing to Cody really helped Cody. The same can happen for Wade now.


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## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton hasn't lost anything by losing cheaply. I believe Mark Henry was his only clean loss this year. He was dominating Punk & Christian all year it was his turn to help. Wade deserves it (I'm starting to come around on Barrett), and so did Cody & Mark, he's not jobbing randomly.


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## Neutronic (Oct 2, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton buried Cody Rhodes

cry me a river


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## Pop Tatari (May 27, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Is this a serious post he has won so many times on ppv this year he has owned cm punk and Christian.A couple of losses and op has a hissyfit grow the fuck up!


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

This has to be a troll post. Orton's been booked very well and has been protected. When he's lost, he should have lost. It's just good booking. Actually, I'd argue he should have lost more. With them building up Barrett and Rhodes as main event heels and Sheamus as the #2 face, there's no need for Orton to go on a giant win streak. Making him vulnerable does a lot more to make other heels look credible.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

What the hell are you talking about son? He ran through damn near every heel on the SD roster, about fucking time he started losing some.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

_"Hurts, don't it?" the Christian marks laughed to the Orton marks_

But seriously, Orton up until recently has had crazy strong, Cena-like booking for a large part of his career. Booking that most guys only dream of. Right now he seems to be more 'disconnected' than ever (I don't know about everyone, but I've always got the impression from Orton that he wasn't fully here. Like when you're talking to someone and you know they're not paying attention... idk) but I think this is a good role for him. He works very well with the midcarders and to be honest it keeps him out of the title picture which is nothing but good in my eyes.


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## HeliWolf (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

The question you need to ask is does Orton look worse now than before the feuds? No he fucking doesn't, he still looks like an absolute don. And that's why it's so important and awesome that Orton is doing it now. Beating Randy Orton means something, it says a lot about Orton that he (one of the top guys in WWE) is willing to thoroughly put over new talent, I can't say the same about a certain other top guy. 




Besides, Orton can't win with the IWC. He's the Golden Boy, even more so than Cena.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> I agree that Orton's given FUCK ALL to do by creative he's just drifting into feuds mostly with no reason


Orton's job is to get the main event heels over by giving them crucial victories and then on to the next heel. Rhodes to Barrett to probably Hunico in the future. Sheamus is going to win the WHC within the next six months and be viewed as the #1 face of Smackdown, so he needs to stay solid.

You want someone who has drifted into a feud with no reason, look no further than Christian. That is where creative is completely at a loss with.


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> Orton's job is to get the main event heels over by giving them crucial victories and then on to the next heel. Rhodes to Barrett to probably Hunico in the future. Sheamus is going to win the WHC within the next six months and be viewed as the #1 face of Smackdown, so he needs to stay solid.
> 
> You want someone who has drifted into a feud with no reason, look no further than Christian. That is where creative is completely at a loss with.


Christian was never main event material unlike Orton who will be viewed as a legend in this company when he retires.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> Christian was never main event material unlike Orton who will be viewed as a legend in this company when he retires.


I completely disagree there. Christian is everything you want a main eventer to be in the ring and on the mic. Booking/creative has messed that up numerous times and it's a shame.

Orton is losing a few now. Who cares. He's helping the next group of Smackdown stars. That's what a "legend" in your terms should be doing. If he wins every match and goes over everyone, there is no main event scene on Smackdown. Where's the complaint?

Orton fans will complain, but good booking says that Barrett goes over Orton. Barrett is a future WHC, Orton isn't in the near future. There's no booking reasoning for this not to happen.


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## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

*lol at WWE treating Orton like shit. :lmao Troll harder.*


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Didn't Christian already prove he was more than capable of Main Eventing in TNA? I don't understand why people still use the "he isn't main event material" argument when that's obviously a lie. I'm by no means a Christian fan, but the guy has proved all of his doubters/haters wrong, it's WWE that doesn't view Christian as a Main Event mainstay, not that Christian himself isn't a Main Event level talent. Don't get shit twisted, just sayin'.


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> I completely disagree there. Christian is everything you want a main eventer to be in the ring and on the mic. Booking/creative has messed that up numerous times and it's a shame.
> 
> Orton is losing a few now. Who cares. He's helping the next group of Smackdown stars. That's what a "legend" in your terms should be doing. If he wins every match and goes over everyone, there is no main event scene on Smackdown. Where's the complaint?
> 
> Orton fans will complain, but good booking says that Barrett goes over Orton. Barrett is a future WHC, *Orton isn't in the near future. * There's no booking reasoning for this not to happen.


The fuck you talking about? 

*Both Wade & Orton are 31 years old.*

& both are in good physical condition to perform for another 10 years or so.

How the fuck is wade the future & orton is not? 



Vic said:


> Didn't Christian already prove he was more than capable of Main Eventing in TNA? I don't understand why people still use the "he isn't main event material" argument when that's obviously a lie. I'm by no means a Christian fan, but the guy has proved all of his doubters/haters wrong, it's WWE that doesn't view Christian as a Main Event mainstay, not that Christian himself isn't a Main Event level talent. Don't get shit twisted, just sayin'.



Nah Christian has the Mid card feel written all over him.

There is a reason why he was jobbed out like a bitch to sheamus!


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> The fuck you talking about?
> 
> *Both Wade & Orton are 31 years old.*
> 
> ...


lol, right it has nothing to do with WWE seeing Sheamus as a higher priority than Christian.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> I completely disagree there. Christian is everything you want a main eventer to be in the ring and on the mic. Booking/creative has messed that up numerous times and it's a shame.
> 
> Orton is losing a few now. Who cares. He's helping the next group of Smackdown stars. That's what a "legend" in your terms should be doing. If he wins every match and goes over everyone, there is no main event scene on Smackdown. Where's the complaint?
> 
> Orton fans will complain, but good booking says that Barrett goes over Orton. Barrett is a future WHC, Orton isn't in the near future. There's no booking reasoning for this not to happen.


 Like someone said i think they're the same age and barrett may be a little older even. But the point is that why can't they both be the future. Also i dont buy into the dominat heel hysteria that seems to be going around since mark henry. i mean orton has made barret look like a million bucks so if barret loses one time to orton in the feud its not gonna hurt barret since he has beaten him like 3 times. but they both need to retain some credibility


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> The fuck you talking about?
> 
> *Both Wade & Orton are 31 years old.*
> 
> ...


Orton's reached main event status. There isn't a single reason to book him over Barrett who needs key victories to get there. If Orton goes over, you just justify in the fan's minds that Barrett isn't ready for the main event and that doesn't do the show any favors at all. With no other main event heels, who exactly is Orton going to be going up against on Smackdown? Henry every single week?

Christian was jobbed out to bring Sheamus to the main event level as a main event face. The principal concept wasn't a bad one, it just went on too long to the point that a one sided feud didn't elevate him anymore. 

All of this is booking and most of it besides the length of the Christian/Sheamus feud was correct. Again, I don't see the complaints.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> Orton's reached main event status. There isn't a single reason to book him over Barrett who needs key victories to get there. If Orton goes over, you just justify in the fan's minds that Barrett isn't ready for the main event and that doesn't do the show any favors at all. With no main event heels, who exactly is Orton going to be going up against on Smackdown? Henry every single week?
> 
> Christian was jobbed out to bring Sheamus to the main event level as a main event face. The principal concept wasn't a bad one, it just went on too long to the point that a one sided feud didn't elevate him anymore.
> 
> All of this is booking and most of it besides the length of the Christian/Sheamus feud was correct. Again, I don't see the complaints.


 Speaking of Christian/Sheamus it seems sheamus has buried him at least the orton/christian rivalry was competitive Sheamus has gotten worse than SuperCena


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Speaking of Christian/Sheamus it seems sheamus has buried him at least the orton/christian rivalry was competitive Sheamus has gotten worse than SuperCena


Sheamus is being groomed as the #1 face of Smackdown. I'm not sure what changed in Vince's mind to come up with that opinion, but you are right, he is booked like Cena. For some reason, they are convinced that a few loses will ruin all momentum for Sheamus. He's new in the face role, but he should start losing a few more soon as any heel against him shouldn't be slated for an automatic loss.


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> *Sheamus is being groomed as the #1 face of Smackdown.* I'm not sure what changed in Vince's mind to come up with that opinion, but you are right, he is booked like Cena. For some reason, they are convinced that a few loses will ruin all momentum for Sheamus. He's new in the face role, but he should start losing a few more soon as any heel against him shouldn't be slated for an automatic loss.


How are so fucking sure about it?


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## Edgeheadpeeps (May 4, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> How are so fucking sure about it?


He kinda is though if you think about it. The WWE is protecting the hell out of the guy right now. He got disqualified in the Survivor Series match and Orton took the clean pinfall from Barrett. If that doesn't say much I don't know what will. Orton has lost cleanly in 3 of the last 4 pay per views. When was the last time Sheamus lost clean?


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## Tacticalpanic (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Randy should be proof enough to the wwe that a top face can lose and it doesint really effect them when its done properly and every now and then. you need a balance , too many loses and the face looks poor , too many wins and the heels look like they stand no chance.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> How are so fucking sure about it?


I'm looking at the booking. They are making him seem like an unstoppable force. He's tearing through the heels. It's at the point, where booking itself will lead him to the WHC and when he does, he'll be the #1 face of Smackdown. I don't see them letting up either after he wins the WHC. As it was pointed out, he's being booked very similar to Cena who is still the #1 face even when he isn't holding the title. Although, CM Punk is getting very close to that spot. That could change in the next half year or so.


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## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I like the fact that he loses once in a while, he is no John Cena and that is a good thing. If he were to win every single match he would be booed out of the building like John Cena.


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## the-gaffer (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

OP are you freaking kidding me?


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



TheSupremeForce said:


> This HAS to be a troll post. Otherwise, I'm too disgusted to know whether to laugh or cry.
> I don't want to consider that now that Orton is actually losing once in a while, people are going to start crying about it. The top faces NEED to lose more often. It's the only way of making heels credible again. Look at what Orton did for Henry. Orton losing to Cody really helped Cody. The same can happen for Wade now.


But he shouldn't job too many times in a row. Look at all the names, he's put them over in the last two months. If he jobs too much, a victory over him means much less.

It's impressive how I always hear these bitch ass haters say he buries people yet he's done nothing but put over for the last year with the exception of Nexus (they were already dying by that time anyways) and Christian. No idea why creative treats Christian like shit, but it's not Orton's fault, he jobbed to Sheamus non-stop in the same fashion until his recent injury. And the haters were mad that Orton regained a bit of credibility by attacking Henry post-match. "Why did he have to do it? Can't he put over anyone clean? *cries some more*" and they even wanted him to lose against Cody at Vengeance even though he jobbed clean two PPVs in a row before that and the one after it too. You might as well say that you want him be a jobber losing in two minute squash matches. Funny how despite all of this, they still wont stop with their awful predicting skills. "Lulz, orton will bury them 4 on 1 bcuz hes superorton"


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I don't mind orton losing clean since it helps younger heels. However I hope nobody complains if he wins once in a while. Like lets say he beats Barrett one time in a hard fought match it won't hurt him but i think he needs to win a little though otherwise when people beat him it wont mean as much


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## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Those are the few loses he's gotten recently.


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## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

OP is the dirt worst of the 2011 members.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> I don't mind orton losing clean since it helps younger heels. However I hope nobody complains if he wins once in a while. Like lets say he beats Barrett one time in a hard fought match it won't hurt him but i think he needs to win a little though otherwise when people beat him it wont mean as much


I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Sheamus/Christian feud where Christian couldn't win anything. They should have learned from that. Orton probably will win a few, depending on how long the feud goes on. In the end, like I wrote, the important thing is Barrett goes over Orton in the end. He has to win the final battle in the feud, whatever that is.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> I don't mind orton losing clean since it helps younger heels. However I hope nobody complains if he wins once in a while. Like lets say he beats Barrett one time in a hard fought match it won't hurt him but i think he needs to win a little though otherwise when people beat him it wont mean as much


This exactly. I don't mind Orton winning, what i do mind is him always winning against whoever he feuds with, it does no one favors. Have him job some during the feud too.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Sheamus/Christian feud where Christian couldn't win anything. They should have learned from that. Orton probably will win a few, depending on how long the feud goes on. In the end, like I wrote, the important thing is Barrett goes over Orton in the end. He has to win the final battle in the feud, whatever that is.


 Barrett has looked dominant over orton. i think he has like 3 clean wins which is good for his character. so if orton wins one it will be considered lucky and won't hurt barrett


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## ScrewYou (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Rev™ said:


> OP is the dirt worst of the 2011 members.


Worst member in history.


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## DoubleDeckerBar (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He isn't treated atal like shit, he doesn't need to win every single match.

He seems to have finally taken his head out of his own ass and is putting people below him over.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



jonoaries said:


> Orton hasn't lost anything by losing cheaply. I believe Mark Henry was his only clean loss this year. He was dominating Punk & Christian all year it was his turn to help. Wade deserves it (I'm starting to come around on Barrett), and so did Cody & Mark, he's not jobbing randomly.


He lost at Survivor Series clean, he got pinned at least twice in tag team matches clean, he lost to Mark Henry twice clean in back to back PPVs and he also lost clean to Barrett a couple of Smackdowns ago. (a thumb to the eye is nothing, I don't care how they treat it). He also laid down at the end of many Smackdown episodes while Christian was standing tall, though the feud was otherwise terribly booked just like it's always been with Christian sadly. And I believe he got the upperhand on Punk every time because WWE did plan on off-loading him after his contract would end. Thankfully Cena saved the day there.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



DoubleDeckerBar said:


> He isn't treated atal like shit, he doesn't need to win every single match.
> 
> He seems to have finally taken his head out of his own ass and is putting people below him over.


 i don't think that is the case. he doesn't run the company so i dont think he makes those decisions i think people read too much into things. In fact he has praised cody and barrett so i doubt he would be unwilling to put them over and he has put them over


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## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Sheamus/Christian feud where Christian couldn't win anything. They should have learned from that. Orton probably will win a few, depending on how long the feud goes on. In the end, like I wrote, the important thing is Barrett goes over Orton in the end. He has to win the final battle in the feud, whatever that is.


Heel rarely win the match that ends the feud so i wouldn't count on that.


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## rkomarkorton (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

barrett has now defeated orton twice cleanly now watch when orton wins their next match how the iwc is gonna bitch and cry about it


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



DoubleDeckerBar said:


> He isn't treated atal like shit, he doesn't need to win every single match.
> 
> He seems to have finally taken his head out of his own ass and is putting people below him over.


What bullshit. He's been putting over constantly. The only times this didn't quite happen were the Nexus and Christian feuds and both these two were victims of similar booking to Cena and Sheamus, respectively, so I can't see how Orton is to blame in any way. He put over The Miz earlier this year, unlike Cena who made him look like a complete pussy. And he was going to put over Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes when Legacy broke up, but things didn't go as planned and Orton was forced to turn face, meaning he had to win at Mania to establish himself plus DiBiase couldn't really get over. (they are yet to give up on him, though. See "posse party") Orton is not a politician like many would love to believe.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> he doesn't run the company so i dont think he makes those decisions i think people read too much into things.


This. Exactly. It's all in booking. That's where the fault lies. Not whoever benefits or doesn't benefit from the booking.


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton never had his head up his ass. Just watch his DVD and you cvan tell that for a fact. He's done way more than any top guy this year at trying to get guys over. If only Cena would take notes.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Orton never had his head up his ass. Just watch his DVD and you cvan tell that for a fact. He's done way more than any top guy this year at trying to get guys over. If only Cena would take notes.


The thing is, the IWC nerds want Orton to lose every single match he's in and as soon as he wins one, "he buryz ppl". I swear, a while back there was actually a thread about Orton *BURYING* Kane. Yes, you read that right.

*ORTON BURIED KANE.* WHAT THE FUCK?

The only people who have their head up their own ass are these bandwagon hopping douchebags who join whatever they find "cool". Hating on top faces is the cool thing in the IWC, therefore they choose that bandwagon to ride.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I think the OP meant from an angle standpoint he's not been given any interesting storylines, he shows up to wrestle and thats pretty much it


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## Calvin22 (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Its a good thing.
Orton needs a break from the main event scene, besides it shows what level the midcarders are at.

Wade and Orton feud interest me a lot.


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## Mister Excitement (Apr 17, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Maybe it's because Barrett and Henry needed those wins over him to make them more credible. It certainly didn't hurt Orton's credibility so why are you complaining? And why would you complain about Rhodes when Orton was the one beating him all the time just a about a month ago?


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## Hordriss (Nov 23, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I'm a big Orton fan, and I think there's nothing wrong with how he's being booked. Survivor Series was huge for Barrett and Rhodes (much as I'm not a fan of Cody), yet will have done nothing to harm Orton's credibility, especially bearing in mind the manner of the loss.

Orton is in a position where he can put a couple of guys over and do no harm to himself, so I'm glad to see WWE are using him in this way. If only they'd do this with Cena from time to time, and things would be looking a lot better.


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## Negative Force (Mar 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



rkomarkorton said:


> barrett has now defeated orton twice cleanly now watch when orton wins their next match how the iwc is gonna bitch and cry about it


Basically. It'll be fun to watch the tears though lol


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Orton never had his head up his ass. Just watch his DVD and you cvan tell that for a fact. He's done way more than any top guy this year at trying to get guys over. *If only Cena would take notes*.


Cena is the top draw, not the same thing.

besides cena has been doing his fair share of losing since MITB.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Considering all the pretty major storylines we've had this year, all on Raw mind you, Orton's year has been relatively tame. He has moved to the _wrestling_ show and everything on SD tends to be a lot more simplistic and wrestling oriented over Raw's entertainment and glitzy glamor approach. For the past while he does seem to just be floating along not doing a whole lot. I really wonder what they have planned for him concerning Mania. He doesn't seem to fit in anywhere atm. I'd like to see him get some sort of storyline again too.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> Cena is the top draw, not the same thing.
> 
> besides cena has been doing his fair share of losing since MITB.


 Not really. MITB wasn't a clean job, summerslam he had is foot on the rope, hell in a cell he wasn't pinned, and that match with del rio wasn't clean


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Not really. MITB wasn't a clean job, summerslam he had is foot on the rope, hell in a cell he wasn't pinned, and that match with del rio wasn't clean


because he is the top draw. He cant lose clean until he turns heel.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> because he is the top draw. He cant lose clean until he turns heel.


 Thats the point when orton loses he elevates guys but when Cena rarely loses he doens't help because the heel looks even weaker since its a very dirty win


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> I really wonder what they have planned for him concerning Mania. He doesn't seem to fit in anywhere atm. I'd like to see him get some sort of storyline again too.


Feud with Undertaker?


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## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Thats the point when orton loses he elevates guys but when Cena rarely loses he doens't help because the heel looks even weaker since its a very dirty win


Not quite.

Look at Miz before his feud with cena & now.
Look at R truth before his feud with cena & now.

And more importantly punk. Cena put him over big time.


----------



## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I remember on a radio show he said something about MARK HENRY that he's the guy he'd lease like to wrestle and he ends up losing the world title to him, lawl.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Vic said:


> What the hell are you talking about son? He ran through damn near every heel on the SD roster, about fucking time he started losing some.


This, and do note that Orton has the most wins in 2011 of anyone in WWE, and the second best win-loss record for male wrestlers with 69.35% wins. 

Source: Wrestleview


----------



## McQueen (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Yeah the guy who's been pinned probably 10 times all year is being treated like shit. Lets just have him bury everyone on the roster BECAUZ DA VIPER IZ SO KOOL!


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Look at Miz before his feud with cena & now.
> Look at R truth before his feud with cena & now.
> ...


 Not quite? From what i remember miz got buried by cena as did r-truth. I mean i dontknow if we were watching different shit but i never so him put either one of those two over. CM punk he put over but not cleanly and plus punk was already over


----------



## rkomarkorton (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Look at Miz before his feud with cena & now.
> Look at R truth before his feud with cena & now.
> ...


get out of here with that nonsense. who did miz win the title from? yeah orton that alone put him over big time and cemented him as a main eventer. cena damn near buried the guy and alex riley in their i quit match. truth got over on his own. your only arguement is punk. cena did help him i'll give u that.


----------



## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

On the contrary, I like that he's not in the ME 24/7 anymore. Just because you're a main eventer doesn't mean that you always have to be in the main event.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Cena hasnt put over or "made' anyone this year. He had his butt carried by Punk(Cena couldnt even do a simple abdominal stretch right in one match). Actually Miz has made Truth look way better than Cena has(he buried Truth at Capitol Punishment). Punk was already over enough and didnt need Cena's help.

Can anyone say that about Cody,Henry,Dolph or soon Barrett before they feuded w/ Orton? No. Orton is doing his best work this year and is showing how a top guy really should be.


----------



## "Dashing" CJ (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he's being used AT ALL!


----------



## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



rkomarkorton said:


> get out of here with that nonsense. who did miz win the title from? yeah orton that alone put him over big time and cemented him as a main eventer. cena damn near buried the guy and alex riley in their i quit match. truth got over on his own. your only arguement is punk. cena did help him i'll give u that.


Cena doesnt have to lose to every opponent to put them over. Cena, in people's eyes, is a larger than life character. Feuding with him itself is a big push for anyone on the roster.

Cena has the starpower than orton doesnt really have. Orton may have put over the miz but even after that miz was floundering in the mid card & upper mid card. His feud with cena is what truly got him over as a top heel.


Cena *established* Miz & truth as top heels.


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

HAHAHA ARE YOU SERIOUS?! He's putting over other midcard heels to make them into main event heels.


----------



## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton doesn't need to be in the main event all the time. Dude has been pushed hard as fuck for years. They can put off the gas and focus on other people. I mean I guess the question is: what does WWE gain by pushing Orton MORE at this point?


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Cena hasnt put over or "made' anyone this year. He had his butt carried by Punk(Cena couldnt even do a simple abdominal stretch right in one match). Actually Miz has made Truth look way better than Cena has(he buried Truth at Capitol Punishment). Punk was already over enough and didnt need Cena's help.
> 
> Can anyone say that about Cody,Henry,Dolph or soon Barrett before they feuded w/ Orton? No. Orton is doing his best work this year and is showing how a top guy really should be.


Ziggler was definitely not made by Orton. So what if Ziggler faced Orton twice? Ziggler faced everybody. Wrestling twice on the same night makes Ziggler. Being the best seller on the planet makes Ziggler. Being charismatic makes Ziggler. Being RKOed 2 minutes into a Survivor Series match does not make Ziggler.

Henry, Orton gave him clean wins so this is the best example.

Rhodes, it's debatable, Rhodes got one dirty win against Orton and took about five losses to Orton. I don't think Orton actually helped Rhodes' momentum, I think he hindered Rhodes.

Barrett, is probably going to be the second best example after Henry, by account of the clean pin at Survivor Series.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton made them also look like his equal in their matches which no matter what the match results is,thats what a top guy is to do and Cena dont. And all Dolph does is take Hennig like overexagerated bumps which will eventually screw his body up later on,look what happened to Hennig for proof.


----------



## The XL (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Lol he beat Christian clean every time they wrestled. I hope he jobs to Barrett, Henry, and even Rhodes over and over. That's what his role should be honestly, upper midcard/fringe maineventer who gets fed to top heels. He and Christian should switch roles, Christian should be a top player, not Orton.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He'd do that way before Cena ever would,he dont even do clean job #1 to get anyone over.


----------



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Did you seriously just say that Orton made Ziggler after only having 2 matches 8*D


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

How dense are you? Where did I say that? I said that Orton made Dolph look like his equal in their matches(like Punk did lastnight) which is what top guys are to do to build new people up.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



The XL said:


> Lol he beat Christian clean every time they wrestled. I hope he jobs to Barrett, Henry, and even Rhodes over and over. That's what his role should be honestly, upper midcard/fringe maineventer who gets fed to top heels. He and Christian should switch roles, Christian should be a top player, not Orton.


I agree that Orton has to be used to get main eventers over. He is the only face on Smackdown with enough credibility to do it. If not, there won't be a main event scene on Smackdown. Sheamus can easily become the #1 face of Smackdown for the next year and it wouldn't hurt Orton at all.

With Christian, booking/creative completely ruined him in six months. That's a record for them. Christian is lucky that because of his injury, he gets another reboot and creative has another chance to get it right. Hopefully they take it and use Christian correctly this time as a midcard face with enough credibility to slide into the main event as needed. He should be right below Sheamus/Orton.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



The XL said:


> Lol he beat Christian clean every time they wrestled. I hope he jobs to Barrett, Henry, and even Rhodes over and over. That's what his role should be honestly, upper midcard/fringe maineventer who gets fed to top heels. He and Christian should switch roles, Christian should be a top player, not Orton.


 The problem is that if orton jobs all the time it will not be as big when people beat him. also people seem to forget orton is only like 30 or 31 he is not on his way out. I mean as good as wrestler as he has been he still might have his better years coming. Also what if he turns heel which i hope he does. if he turns heel he will get more popular again since he is a natural heel


----------



## InstantClassic100 (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Ortons awesome IMO. He's character and promo's need massive work but as a worker, he's one of the best in the company with Bryan and Punk.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> *Orton made them also look like his equal in their matches *which no matter what the match results is,thats what a top guy is to do and Cena dont. And all Dolph does is take Hennig like overexagerated bumps which will eventually screw his body up later on,look what happened to Hennig for proof.


I'm tired of this phrase. Orton doesn't make anyone look equal during matches. This is a concept you don't seem to get.

If two men were really equal, they would fight to a draw. Or at least, they would have an equal win-loss record with each other, let's say 5-5 out of 10. If it's 6-4 or 7-3 out of 10, they're not equal.

The thing is that Orton definitely has winning records versus Christian, Rhodes, Ziggler. He doesn't make them look equal because almost every match ends with an RKO. Orton is mostly the winner, therefore he is better than them.

Orton can make them look good with more offense during the match. I think that is the term you are looking for. He can make them seem like they can put up a fight against a main-eventer. But he doesn't make them seem like his equal. Orton is a main-eventer, he doesn't make them look like main-eventers.


----------



## TotalNonstopHonor (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He has his own tour bus, has one of the most lucrative contracts in WWE history and is a locker room leader.

For all the same reasons the OP stated Orton should be getting main event spotlight, people hate on John Cena and even more recently The Rock so a lesser extent.

He's helping elevate other talent. Henry's reign is to continue as champion and there can't be only one challenger. He'll have his time when he needs it again.


----------



## TotalNonstopHonor (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> I'm tired of this phrase. Orton doesn't make anyone look equal during matches. This is a concept you don't seem to get.
> 
> If two men were really equal, they would fight to a draw. Or at least, they would have an equal win-loss record with each other, let's say 5-5 out of 10. If it's 6-4 or 7-3 out of 10, they're not equal.
> 
> ...


Doesn't make them look equal? My God you make it seem like he holds vendettas against people when each match is produced with the help of an agent in order to further develop a story. There's no need for Orton to look equal against someone like Heath Slater.

There's no fighting here..so I'm not sure what draw you're talking about especially considering there are no times limits. Plus..boring.

Orton is better than them? My word...it's about story telling and development. It's a scripted entertainment show.


----------



## BKKsoulcity (Apr 29, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

It really looks like Orton is going to be recycling the same shit for awhile now. First feud with Rhodes to get him over but still winning in the end, then Barrett will be try and be put over but Orton will still win in the end, and then D. Bryan at WM with hopefully Orton legit putting him over. It's going to be a long road to WM for him.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



TotalNonstopHonor said:


> Doesn't make them look equal? My God you make it seem like he holds vendettas against people when each match is produced with the help of an agent in order to further develop a story. There's no need for Orton to look equal against someone like Heath Slater.
> 
> There's no fighting here..so I'm not sure what draw you're talking about especially considering there are no times limits. Plus..boring.
> 
> Orton is better than them? My word...it's about story telling and development. It's a scripted entertainment show.


The hell are you talking about? We weren't discussing Heath Slater.

Fine draw came into my mind because Japanese wrestling has draws... I apologise.

But still if you want to make someone like Rhodes look like he is Orton's equal he's got to win half their battles. You can't let Rhodes win one match out of six against Orton and claim that Orton made him look like an equal when most of the matches ended with an RKO! Clearly Orton is better than Rhodes if he wins most of the time.


----------



## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He SHOULD be losing. He's a bonafide top tier talent not in need of a world title feud - thus, he can help by elevating others from the midcard. He's doing that very well right now with Barrett.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I like the way Orton has been being booked, and doesn't he have backstage power? I doubt WWE is treating him like shit, he just probably wants to work with the mid card talent. How much more different could matches with Henry be?


----------



## rb90 (Dec 28, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Pop Tatari said:


> Is this a serious post he has won so many times on ppv this year he has owned cm punk and Christian.


dis


----------



## Dusty Roids (Sep 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton is now using his starpower for putting over guys like Rhodes, Barrett and Mark Henry while maintaining his main event status. I don't get why people even compare Orton to Shawn Michaels backstage behavior. Orton in no way such a backstage prick as michaels ever was. Look at what he is doing right now. Business wise Orton is booked way better than Super cena right now.


----------



## Carlito_mfc (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I hate Orton, but I cannot deny he is doing well for the company at the moment and helping put over the likes of Rhodes and Barrett. Look what he's done with Henry, from loveable babyface, to the man that destroy even the top dog in the company. Fair enough Henry took out Kane and Big Show, but to easily defeat "the man" made him into a main player.


----------



## ultimatekrang (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

what a fucking joke of a thread.


----------



## Nitromalta (Jul 27, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton will return in time in the mainevent for wm


----------



## dude69 (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



ultimatekrang said:


> what a fucking joke of a thread.


it totally is
i cant wait for the day Cena starts losing and people start moaning how he isnt winning enough, cause by the sound of this thread its the kind of thing that will happen

plus Orton losing to people is helping the other person!!!!! and thats a good thing. Orton is the number 2 guy (maybe 3 after Punk) so dont worry he isnt being treated like shit, his rep is 100% fine


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He is helping the young talent like Cody and barret.. He is doing something really good here. Orton is still young he has alot of best years ahead of him. He should not win always or be in the title picture the entire year. We dont want another Cena.

In the words of The Great Booker T, "Whach are yu talkin abouh?"


----------



## evoked21 (Feb 23, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

not sure which part is being like shit. if it is the lack of appearance and opportunities then it is even more baffling. 

he has long runs of title, always appearing in shows, also know as the apex predator. i think it is good to let him have an outside of title role for a while, it is already bad enough if the title is only held by 1 or 2 same guys each time.


----------



## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> The hell are you talking about? We weren't discussing Heath Slater.
> 
> Fine draw came into my mind because Japanese wrestling has draws... I apologise.
> 
> But still if you want to make someone like Rhodes look like he is Orton's equal he's got to win half their battles. You can let Rhodes win one match out of six against Orton and claim that Orton made him look like an equal when most of the matches ended with an RKO! Clearly Orton is better than Rhodes if he wins most of the time.


Thats idiotic thing to say. You really dont understand how things work!! 

Superstars like Rhodes or ziggler mean absolutely nothing to the casual fans. WE, the iwc, know & discuss these superstars everyday but to the casual fans they are nothing. You can have rhodes vs ziggler match 100 times on raw or SD but people just wont care.

But if you put them in a match with cena or orton, people will pay attention. Even if they lose, they become a familiar name to the casual fans. Thats how mid carders get over!! 

To say Orton didnt help rhodes or ziggler is being absolutely ignorant!!


----------



## PunkBasedGod (Oct 20, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Lol wtf orton has really good booking


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> I'm tired of this phrase. Orton doesn't make anyone look equal during matches. This is a concept you don't seem to get.
> 
> If two men were really equal, they would fight to a draw. Or at least, they would have an equal win-loss record with each other, let's say 5-5 out of 10. If it's 6-4 or 7-3 out of 10, they're not equal.
> 
> ...





starship.paint said:


> The hell are you talking about? We weren't discussing Heath Slater.
> 
> Fine draw came into my mind because Japanese wrestling has draws... I apologise.
> 
> But still if you want to make someone like Rhodes look like he is Orton's equal he's got to win half their battles. You can't let Rhodes win one match out of six against Orton and claim that Orton made him look like an equal when most of the matches ended with an RKO! Clearly Orton is better than Rhodes if he wins most of the time.





Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> Thats idiotic thing to say. You really dont understand how things work!!
> 
> Superstars like Rhodes or ziggler mean absolutely nothing to the casual fans. WE, the iwc, know & discuss these superstars everyday but to the casual fans they are nothing. You can have rhodes vs ziggler match 100 times on raw or SD but people just wont care.
> 
> ...


Learn to read bro. I didn't say Orton didn't help them. I was arguing that Orton didn't make his opponents look like his equal.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Shit? he's getting the PERFECT booking, he has the ability to lose, he's protected and a great talent.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



PunkBasedGod said:


> Lol wtf orton has really good booking


Booking yes but he's had fuck all to do angle wise he isnt given anything to do he's just there


----------



## DoubleAwesome (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

fpalm


----------



## BEE (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I swear to god the IWC can be such idiots at times. One day you complain about Orton winning too much and now you're complaining about him losing?  

If anything, Orton losing is a refreshing sight to see. It's really tiring seeing him, Sheamus, and Cena win basically almost 95% of their matches.


----------



## Heel (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Are you joking? Orton is the second most over and credible guy in the company, he gets treated great. He's just doing what several top stars don't and putting people over. Fair play to Orton for doing it.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Too say Orton hasnt helped anyone look like his equal in his matches is the most retarded thing ever said. Hes elevated Cody,Dolph,and last year Sheamus and soon Barrett(which hes already started to do). And made Henry look as over as hes been in his whole career.


----------



## Johnny Sweatpants (Jun 11, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> What are they doing with Orton? He a legit main eventer & a top star in the WWE. Why the hell is he feuding with mid carders & jobbing every PPV?
> 
> Lost clean twice to mark henry, Lost to wade barret & Cody Rhodes on Smackdown, *got pinned at survivor series*.. WTH?
> 
> ...


Oh come on now, at Survivor Series Orton pinned not one, not two, but _three_ opponents before getting eliminated. 

As an Orton fan, I'm perfectly content with the way he's been booked since losing to Henry.


----------



## Hustle Nudity SEX (Oct 14, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Johnny Sweatpants said:


> Oh come on now, at Survivor Series Orton pinned not one, not two, but _three_ opponents before getting eliminated.
> 
> As an Orton fan, *I'm perfectly content with the way he's been booked since losing to Henry.*


he has been Constantly losing ever since henry feud ended.


----------



## Johnny Sweatpants (Jun 11, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> he has been Constantly losing ever since henry feud ended.


Orton's current losing streak is nothing to lose sleep over. Fear not, his credibility is intact and his career will be just fine. He will likely have at least one title reign a year until he retires. I actually found him less likeable when he was winning all the time, particularly during the Christian feud. They had great matches but it was odd watching Orton as an unstoppable face consistently defeat Christian, the underdog heel.


----------



## Bruze (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

LMAO treated like shit? this guy buried the smackdown roster since he got drafted there, its about time he jobbed for once, i gave him props for always losing clean with no outside interference unlike cena where he always loses due to someone or something. But this is all for orton to do have something to do, cause come wrestlemania imo he will unfortunately main event


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Bruze said:


> LMAO treated like shit? this guy buried the smackdown roster since he got drafted there, its about time he jobbed for once, i gave him props for always losing clean with no outside interference unlike cena where he always loses due to someone or something. But this is all for orton to do have something to do, cause come wrestlemania imo he will unfortunately main event


"buried the smackdown roster"? Lol, the only guy he feuded with before Mark Henry was Christian and apart from him, nobody else has been anywhere close to being "buried" by Orton in a feud. Sure, he got victories over Cody, but he made him look like a threat and put him over at SS by having him being a survivor along with Barrett. I don't need to touch on Mark Henry either.


----------



## Drama (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He's stuck in limbo at the moment. Yes it's nice to have him help out the lower talent (I would say younger but he's the same age as Barrett) but WWE needs to find something big for him after this Barrett feud. He can't just keep aimlessly floating around, he's too good for that. I kinda hope he's Undertaker's 20th.


----------



## shutupchico (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

treated like shit? the guy can go in the ring better than almost anyone, but is absolutely horrible besides that. i'd say he's been treated better than anyone in the history of this business if you factor in how much he sucks overall with how many high profile matches/feuds he's been in. plus don't they let him stick around when he fails every drug test they give him?


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Hustle Nudity SEX said:


> What are they doing with Orton? He a legit main eventer & a top star in the WWE. Why the hell is he feuding with mid carders & jobbing every PPV?


Oh for christs sake, he's out of the main event scene temporarily so that other guys can have a turn feuding for the title. Or would you rather Orton ALWAYS be in the title picture, so he can just bury challengers one by one.

There is really only room for three "main event scenes" at a time - WHC, WWE championship, and possibly another "RAW feud" (currently involving Rock/Cena, a while ago involving HHH/Punk, etc.).

So if Orton steps aside from the WHC scene for a while (which was the right thing to do BTW), by DEFINITION, he is not in the main event scene, and is in the midcard scene.

As for him jobbing every PPV, didn't he beat Cody Rhodes at the last PPV before Survivor Series?


----------



## SCSA852k (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Man.. Can there be age limit in this forum, so that under 18 year olds cannot post?


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

And how many drug tests do you know he's failed shutupchico? Or anyone else for that matter?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> plus don't they let him stick around when he fails every drug test they give him?


Are you backstage when he gets tested? No so stop making dumb statements your making an arse of yourself


----------



## septurum (Mar 16, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He almost never loses clean. How is he treated like shit?


----------



## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



septurum said:


> He almost never loses clean. How is he treated like shit?


I don't know. Maybe he should be in literally every main event and literally never lose. He isn't in the main event for 2 months and some people throw a shit fit.


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Randy Orton is not being treated like shit, on the contrary he is being paid a high amount for a relative low work load and without the added pressure of being the main eventer and the company relying too much on him.

In terms of how he's being booked, WWE have made the decision to use Cena & Orton less and less so that other guys can be made into top level talent so there's more to draw from. Orton will be used sparingly in the main event scene but he doesn't need to be there all the time, especially when he's been there for the past 5 years straight.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Honestly, he is treated pretty bad for a main eventer. Sheamus rarely loses, Cena never loses, Punk rarely loses and especially clean, but Orton loses alot lately. I personally think he should have Super Orton'd and pinned all 5 or 4 members of the opposing team. People like a badass, and that would be badass. Plus it would make him look unbeatable, thus making Henry look more unbeatable, and the next 2 to beat them would look great. Also Barrett, nor Cody deserve wins imo. Neither are good enough to Main Event, though Cody is much closer and much better.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> Honestly, he is treated pretty bad for a main eventer. Sheamus rarely loses, Cena never loses, Punk rarely loses and especially clean, but Orton loses alot lately. I personally think he should have Super Orton'd and pinned all 5 or 4 members of the opposing team. People like a badass, and that would be badass. Plus it would make him look unbeatable, thus making Henry look more unbeatable, and the next 2 to beat them would look great. Also Barrett, nor Cody deserve wins imo. Neither are good enough to Main Event, though Cody is much closer and much better.


I think I literally just got dumber after reading this. Thank you for proving everyone's points as to how insane Orton marks are.

Unless you're just trying to be a smartass, which wouldn't really work in a thread like this.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Treated like shit? Yeah, the guy Vince has desperately tried to push into the #1 spot (and repeatedly failed) over Cena for the last 7 years is treated like shit. That makes a LOT of sense.

Top guys don't get "treated like shit", Vince listens to them, they have leway. The reason Orton is losing is because Orton wants to lose. What is Vince gonna do if he says no, fire him so he joins TNA? Ha. Not likely. This is one of the only businesses where the employees.....at least the high level employees really have more power than the boss.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> And how many drug tests do you know he's failed shutupchico? Or anyone else for that matter?


in 2006 

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Sources within WWE are confirming that Randy Orton did not meet the requirements to pass the WWE wellness program drug test. Although many details have not been released, apparently WWE Officials found over eight bottles of non-prescription painkillers in Orton's dressing bag. After the incident with RVD this past week, Vince McMahon had a talk with all talent from all three brands warning them about the use of Painkillers. It should also be noted that Randy Orton tested positive for Steriod use within the last two months. At this point, many aren't sure if WWE will make the story public, with Orton being a centerpiece of this year's Summerslam battling Hulk Hogan. However, if action isn't taken, it would be not only unfair to RVD, it would also look very bad in the eyes of the public. We will have more on this story as it develops.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I don't think Orton is a backstage politician. Now I'm not there but from the way he talks about younger talent and how he has helped guys like cody,barrett,dibiase,and sheamus i think orton is doing what he wants to do which is put over new guys the only probelm i have is that some peope dont appreciate orton's work in the ring and how he has helped ypunger guys. I'm not saying they have to be fans i just think he has earned respect after his troubled past


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> I think I literally just got dumber after reading this. Thank you for proving everyone's points as to how insane Orton marks are.
> 
> Unless you're just trying to be a smartass, which wouldn't really work in a thread like this.


Not insane, it's just an equation. I like Orton + dislike Barrett + dislike Cody + don't care about Hunico + Swagger was already taken out by Sheamus. Thus, to me, a Main Eventer like Orton should crush those scrubs in the match with him, and it would make for good and entertaining tv imo. Plus it would make him look really strong, so when he loses to Swagger, or McIntyre, or whoever in an attempt to get them over, it'll be more impressive than beating Orton who's been beaten by Rhodes and Barrett.


----------



## hassassin (Oct 11, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Treated like shit? You can't be serious. This is the same guy that constantly gets put out as some sort of invincible son of a bitch with the most boring and stale personality out of all the main-event/upper-cards in that locker room. They always try portraying him as this sick and sadistic freak and yet the fans just cheer everything he does, he can never be taken seriously with his shit 'Viper' gimmick and they really overplay his dominance that it gets embarrassing. 

Granted I didn't watch WWE from 2008 till April 2011 but before then as the Legend Killer, part of Rated RKO etc. I liked him far better because he was believable. I come back and see him programmed as even more unbeatable than Cena. Fair play to the bookers for Mark Henry defeating him twice but even then you still see Orton always well into the mix. One example that really puts me off about the storyline predictability is the way they booked him to dominate CM Punk prior to WrestleMania, at WrestleMania and Extreme Rules even though Punk was the heel. Punk never once dominant in the actual matches and most of the promo's. Just showed me yet again how one-dimensional and predictable his storyline is and how the whole booking system is. Kind of reminds me why I stopped watching in the first place.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



hassassin said:


> Treated like shit? You can't be serious. This is the same guy that constantly gets put out as some sort of invincible son of a bitch with the most boring and stale personality out of all the main-event/upper-cards in that locker room. They always try portraying him as this sick and sadistic freak and yet the fans just cheer everything he does, he can never be taken seriously with his shit 'Viper' gimmick and they really overplay his dominance that it gets embarrassing.
> 
> Granted I didn't watch WWE from 2008 till April 2011 but before then as the Legend Killer, part of Rated RKO etc. I liked him far better because he was believable. I come back and see him programmed as even more unbeatable than Cena. Fair play to the bookers for Mark Henry defeating him twice but even then you still see Orton always well into the mix. One example that really puts me off about the storyline predictability is the way *they booked him to dominate CM Punk prior to WrestleMania, at WrestleMania and Extreme Rules even though Punk was the heel.* Punk never once dominant in the actual matches and most of the promo's. Just showed me yet again how one-dimensional and predictable his storyline is and how the whole booking system is. Kind of reminds me why I stopped watching in the first place.


Punk was leaving WWE at that time. There is no need to job out your top star to a superstar who is leaving the company. 

Hate orton? fine but dont be ignorant.


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> And how many drug tests do you know he's failed shutupchico? Or anyone else for that matter?


http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/9/19/2433266/wwe-randy-orton-dvd-review-the-redemption-of-a-viper

Earlier this month, WWE released what promises to be one of their biggest selling DVDs of the year, the first ever career retrospective DVD of WWE superstar Randy Orton, which they subtitled The Evolution Of A Predator. The DVD seemed to have the potential of being one of the most compelling in WWE history, after *Orton revealed in a frank radio interview that the title would cover his long hushed up drug overdose in 2006.*...

The discussion of Randy's behavioural problems is aided by a lot of previously unseen or unhighlighted footage of Randy playing the fool and being a jerk around WWE cameras. Hunter claims that Randy was always respectful around him, but heard all the stories about his temper and tried to mentor him, constantly telling him he's the only guy who could f*** his own career up and wouldn't take his excuses of being "young and stupid" for his bad behaviour. Randy confides that these problems were exacerbated by a very serious drug addiction.

He also explained how he used to downplay his recreational drug usage to Samantha and con her into believing it wasn't that serious of a problem, but eventually he overdosed on sleeping medication at home and it was only the quick intervention of his girlfriend at the time that saved his life. Whether that was an accidental or intentional OD remains sketchy; Orton claims it was accidental, yet also claims that he hated himself so much during this period that he "was gonna kill" himself.

Randy claims that he was suspended for 60 days over his OD, but that's untrue. *His sixty day suspension after WrestleMania 22 for "unprofessional conduct", *where he was originally scheduled to win the World Heavyweight title again from fellow addict Kurt Angle, *was due to him flagrantly smoking marijuana backstage at a time when they had just instituted their WWE Wellness policy. * It was during this suspension that the OD is believed to have occurred, but at the time Randy denied the rumours that this had happened to everyone, including WWE management, and he wasn't further punished over the incident.

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/6/29/2250462/outrageous-randy-orton-interview

*Orton admits to having serious drug problems in 2006, noting he overdosed, stopped breathing and had to be rushed to the hospital.* (Confirming, in part, Irv Muchnick's story in 2007 that Orton had overdosed, although Irv initially claimed it was a suicide attempt, which is clearly not the case.) Noting he was "ashamed of it for a long time" he insists that talking about it on his upcoming DVD Randy Orton: Evolution of a Predator helped a great deal.


----------



## Clementee (Nov 24, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

At least he gets to be on the front cover of Smackdown vs Raw 2012.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/9/19/2433266/wwe-randy-orton-dvd-review-the-redemption-of-a-viper
> 
> Earlier this month, WWE released what promises to be one of their biggest selling DVDs of the year, the first ever career retrospective DVD of WWE superstar Randy Orton, which they subtitled The Evolution Of A Predator. The DVD seemed to have the potential of being one of the most compelling in WWE history, after *Orton revealed in a frank radio interview that the title would cover his long hushed up drug overdose in 2006.*...
> 
> ...


Knowing all that kind of makes you feel he's not realy a bad person, just made stupid mistakes concerninh drugs


----------



## HeyNightmare (Dec 30, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

What would really make Barrett (or anyone) credible is a feud with Orton where he picks up a few wins, not just a couple random wins in thrown together matches. WWE doesn't do that too often anymore, though. Not for the midcard anyway.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Anyone else feel a little awkward about that article about Randy? Just makes a person a little unsettled he wanted to kill himself


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> Not insane, it's just an equation. I like Orton + dislike Barrett + dislike Cody + don't care about Hunico + Swagger was already taken out by Sheamus. Thus, to me, a Main Eventer like Orton should crush those scrubs in the match with him, and it would make for good and entertaining tv imo. Plus it would make him look really strong, so when he loses to Swagger, or McIntyre, or whoever in an attempt to get them over, it'll be more impressive than beating Orton who's been beaten by Rhodes and Barrett.


See here's the problem. You dislike these guys, so you label them as 'scrubs'. But that's only your opinion, and it's unproductive to the health of the product. You want only your guy to win, and everyone else to lose. 

Compare that to me- who hates Orton, but I respect that he is a good wrestler in the ring. Boring, horrible on the mic, personality of an old shoe, but good in the ring, and popular with some crowds. If he's used well, like he is now, he enriches the whole show. Having him constantly stomp everyone is bad. Having him win titles over and over is a bad thing. I'd love to see him have a long title hunt, and then LOSE. It would do wonders.

For now, keeping Orton away from the title picture gives others a chance to develop in that scene. And that's good for the longevity of it all. It's refreshing to see other people in the main event. Plus, we all know it won't be long before he's back. And it's not like he isn't on TV, so yeah.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Anyone else feel a little awkward about that article about Randy? Just makes a person a little unsettled he wanted to kill himself


Actually no. I've known suicidal people, and I felt bad for their situations, which didn't involve having massive amounts of fame, money, and travelling the world.

Drugs lead to this sort of thing. It's not like it's a surprise. Especially acting like it's not a big deal.


----------



## CM Jewels (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton is doing business like he should for once.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Whatever that means. Orton jobbed about 90% of the time when he was a heel so now that hes a face he goes over more as all top faces do.Its not Orton's decisions to win or lose.


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## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> See here's the problem. * You dislike these guys, so you label them as 'scrubs'*. But that's only your opinion, and it's unproductive to the health of the product. You want only your guy to win, and everyone else to lose.
> 
> Compare that to me- who hates Orton, but I respect that he is a good wrestler in the ring. Boring, horrible on the mic, personality of an old shoe, but good in the ring, and popular with some crowds. If he's used well, like he is now, he enriches the whole show. Having him constantly stomp everyone is bad. Having him win titles over and over is a bad thing. I'd love to see him have a long title hunt, and then LOSE. It would do wonders.
> 
> For now, keeping Orton away from the title picture gives others a chance to develop in that scene. And that's good for the longevity of it all. It's refreshing to see other people in the main event. Plus, we all know it won't be long before he's back. And it's not like he isn't on TV, so yeah.


I actually dislike them BECAUSE they're scrubs, aka not talented. And it doesn't hurt the health of the product because they suck, aren't over, and shouldn't be pushed. If anything, it's helping the product. If Orton goes super, beats 5 men by himself, and then puts over someone deserving like Drew McIntyre, then Drew just became that much bigger as opposed to beating Orton who lost to everyone else. 

Plus sometimes the future has to wait, and you have to think about the present. The future is supposedly Rhodes, Barrett, Miz, etc. IMO they all suck and don't deserve shit, and thus, until they are good enough, I wouldn't give them a win above midcard level. Orton has no reason to lose to the likes of them.


----------



## RKO696 (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

This thread can't be serious lol


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> I actually dislike them BECAUSE they're scrubs, aka not talented. And it doesn't hurt the health of the product because they suck, aren't over, and shouldn't be pushed. If anything, it's helping the product. If Orton goes super, beats 5 men by himself, and then puts over someone deserving like Drew McIntyre, then Drew just became that much bigger as opposed to beating Orton who lost to everyone else.
> 
> Plus sometimes the future has to wait, and you have to think about the present. The future is supposedly Rhodes, Barrett, Miz, etc. IMO they all suck and don't deserve shit, and thus, until they are good enough, I wouldn't give them a win above midcard level. Orton has no reason to lose to the likes of them.


Barrett is talented, has good mic skills, and has presence. Cody is solid, and is getting better. A future star. Hunico is brand new, too early to judge. Swagger needs a better direction. He's solid in the ring, but has horrid mic skills. (kinda like Orton, but without the baby oil, furrowed eyebrows, and tattoo arms) If he brought back the Eagle, he'd be gold.

But still, you're missing the point. HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GET BETTER IF YOUR GUY BURIES THEM ALL THE TIME? How would they ever get over, or visibly improve? Sometimes you have to give a guy a top shot to see how he does. Just how it is.

I'm glad you don't do the booking.


----------



## DoubleAwesome (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> I actually dislike them BECAUSE they're scrubs, aka not talented. And it doesn't hurt the health of the product because they suck, aren't over, and shouldn't be pushed. If anything, it's helping the product. If Orton goes super, beats 5 men by himself, and then puts over someone deserving like Drew McIntyre, then Drew just became that much bigger as opposed to beating Orton who lost to everyone else.
> 
> Plus sometimes the future has to wait, and you have to think about the present. The future is supposedly Rhodes, Barrett, Miz, etc. IMO they all suck and don't deserve shit, and thus, until they are good enough, I wouldn't give them a win above midcard level. Orton has no reason to lose to the likes of them.


Hahahha You say Those guys cant wrestle BUT you Mark for SHAD Gaspard!?!?!? You Can't be Serious


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## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> *Barrett is talented, has good mic skills, and has presence.* Cody is solid, and is getting better. * A future star. *Hunico is brand new, too early to judge. Swagger needs a better direction. He's solid in the ring, but has horrid mic skills. (kinda like Orton, but without the baby oil, furrowed eyebrows, and tattoo arms) If he brought back the Eagle, he'd be gold.
> 
> But still, you're missing the point. HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO GET BETTER IF YOUR GUY BURIES THEM ALL THE TIME? How would they ever get over, or visibly improve? Sometimes you have to give a guy a top shot to see how he does. Just how it is.
> 
> I'm glad you don't do the booking.


I disagree with the bolded. Barrett has nonexistent presence, and decent mic skills at best. he just has an english accent and sounds like every other english/british person tbh. Cody is solid, but not a future star imo. Hunico I have no opinion on, but is too new to beat Orton, and I'd love Swagger to beat Orton as he's very talented, but he was already eliminated by Sheamus.

And people don't get better by booking them to win, they get better first, then you book them well. I never give anyone a shot unless they are good enough or over for some reaosn. 



DoubleAwesome said:


> Hahahha You say Those guys cant wrestle BUT you Mark for SHAD Gaspard!?!?!? You Can't be Serious


Shad can wrestle decently, was super over in Cryme Tyme, has the look, has an intimidating presence, and was good on the mic. Plus he was black and I identified with that. Plus Barrett's the only one that can't wrestle. Hunico, Rhodes, and especially Swagger can all wrestle pretty well. They just suck at other things(specifically Barrett, and Rhodes is just all around mediocre).


----------



## UKWrestling (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

*I do not understand the heat for Orton , even though he is helping main event material talent get pushed at a fast rate. People still hate Orton for boring matches which is so immature. I think fans should respect Orton for being #1 and helping push talent unlike Cena.*


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Finally someone w/ brains.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



UKWrestling said:


> *I do not understand the heat for Orton , even though he is helping main event material talent get pushed at a fast rate. People still hate Orton for boring matches which is so immature. I think fans should respect Orton for being #1 and helping push talent unlike Cena.*


Is it immature? I watch wrestling to be entertained. He doesn't entertain me, because he has horrible mic skills, and is incredibly predictable in the ring. It's always, "and here comes Super Orton" these days, with a couple exceptions, and for some reason, those are magically the time's he's "helping to push talent", or "getting people over". I wonder why.... it's really not a coincidence. Cena might lose less, but has an easier time elevating talent he's working with, because he can do it during promo work, and not exclusively through losses.

Also, he's not #1. Possibly 1ish on smackdown, but that's it. He needs to be booked as a heel, not a wannabe face. Ironically, he's more likable as a heel. At least IMO.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

If Punk isn't Superstar of the Year, Orton should be the next immediate person on that list. Orton has had a stellar year in the WWE. I may not be a fan and I feel the Viper gimmick is starting to become monotone than intense but Orton has had some great matches with Ziggler, Christian, and even with Henry at NOC. Also, Orton has been putting over talents like Rhodes, Henry, and now Barrett so they can accommodate what was once a heel-less brand a few months ago.

Orton is no Cena. Orton actually is vulnerable to lose and it means something. Cena's only been legit defeated by one man...Punk.


----------



## Tz234 (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Winning™ said:


> If Punk isn't Superstar of the Year, Orton should be the next immediate person on that list. Orton has had a stellar year in the WWE. I may not be a fan and I feel the Viper gimmick is starting to become monotone than intense but Orton has had some great matches with Ziggler, Christian, and even with Henry at NOC. Also, Orton has been putting over talents like Rhodes, Henry, and now Barrett so they can accommodate what was once a heel-less brand a few months ago.
> 
> Orton is no Cena. Orton actually is vulnerable to lose and it means something. Cena's only been legit defeated by one man...Punk.



Cena is the top draw for the company. Orton barely draws...actualy he doesnt. So its not the same case!

Punk never "Legit" beat Cena.

I heard HHH is the reason behind barret's push.



Orton is still a fucking prick for burying kofi!


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Capat, you fail to understand that Orton has been a more vunerable person to beat than Cena (especially this year) and a win over Orton can do wonders for a said career where as Punk is the only person who legit beat Cena and can match toe to toe with him as his equal.

Sucks, I know.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Punk(or anyone esle for that matter)has never legit beat Cena,both of their matches had 'controversial" finishes. Beating Orton means tons for anyone's career. At least Orton does do jobs and tries to get other guys over.


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

He beat Christian a bunch of times, and we all know Christian is better. So I doubt Orton is getting treated bad.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> Orton is still a fucking prick for burying kofi!


fpalm

Give proof he buried him and not this shit of "afterwards he didnt seem to do much"


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title since his feud w/ Orton(in a span of 2 years) so how is that being buried?


----------



## MarkyMark88 (Aug 5, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

WWE Creative: "9 World titles, yeah, we showed that fucker!"


----------



## Until May (Feb 5, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

trolls being trolls

hes treated like gold by wwe


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title since his feud w/ Orton(in a span of 2 years) so how is that being buried?


I've come to realise people use the term buried as an excuse for a shitty wrestler not being used.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> I've come to realise people use the term buried as an excuse for a shitty wrestler not being used.


And I've come to realize that Orton marks that see him lose a couple matches come out and say he's been "jobbing". No, he's "losing". There's a massive difference. Morrison "jobs". See the difference?

What's next on word games with Orton marks?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> I've come to realise people use the term buried as an excuse for a shitty wrestler not being used.


No. Buried is used when people don't understand the impact of booking. Most people aren't buried. But man, are they depushed and fall down the card. There is the difference. WWE has no reason to kill someone's momentum intentionally which is buried. Jobbers don't have momentum to begin with so they can't be buried. What happens is creative/booking just can't figure anything out or makes terrible decisions and unintentionally do it.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> No. Buried is used when people don't understand the impact of booking. Most people aren't buried. But man, are they depushed and fall down the card. There is the difference. WWE has no reason to kill someone's momentum intentionally which is buried. Jobbers don't have momentum to begin with so they can't be buried. What happens is creative/booking just can't figure anything out or makes terrible decisions and unintentionally do it.


Have you ever stopped to think maybe it was VINCE and Vince alone behind his "apparent" depush? I've watched WWE over 20 years and i watch Kofi a lot, all he does is jump around and do his flippy shit there's ZERO psychology its just "spot A to spot N" with him for god sake. Plus he's busted people open quite a lot maybe JUST MAYBE thats why Vince felt he needed his push slowed down. Blaming Orton is bullshit there is NO PROOF he was why Kofi was depushed. Kofi also busted open Batista maybe he bitched to Vince about how sloppy the guy is.

And Kofi is sloppy his fucking punches miss their mark by a mile yet people ignore this to whine that big bad Orton got him depushed? Gimme a fucking break.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Have you ever stopped to think maybe it was VINCE and Vince alone behind his "apparent" depush? I've watched WWE over 20 years and i watch Kofi a lot, all he does is jump around and do his flippy shit there's ZERO psychology its just "spot A to spot N" with him for god sake.


If Vince depushed Kofi, he wouldn't have the tag titles right now. I'd argue that if Vince depushed Kofi that much, he wouldn't even be on roster. Vince didn't do it. Creative/booking did it. There's no need to look any further.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> And I've come to realize that Orton marks that see him lose a couple matches come out and say he's been "jobbing". No, he's "losing". There's a massive difference. Morrison "jobs". See the difference?
> 
> What's next on word games with Orton marks?


What the fuck are you talking about? I have never complained Orton wins or loses why? Because i dont overanalyze shit that everyone else does


----------



## Interceptor88 (May 5, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I don't understand this threat. When a top face loses a pair of matches, he's being treated like shit?? Orton is in the position other top faces should be: winning often, but putting over a heel when it's necessary. Thanks to this booking, Smackdown has credible heels, while Raw heels are douchebags who don't represent a menace. Compare Rhodes, Barret and Mark Henry with The Miz and Alberto del Río.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> If Vince depushed Kofi, he wouldn't have the tag titles right now. I'd argue that if Vince depushed Kofi that much, he wouldn't even be on roster. Vince didn't do it. Creative/booking did it. There's no need to look any further.


Riiiiight and Orton became boss of WWE when? Vince is the one that makes the decision you are talking bollocks my friend


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? I have never complained Orton wins or loses why? Because i dont overanalyze shit that everyone else does


Apparently you just respond and don't read the entire thread. I said Orton marks, not "Simply Flawless", or "You". There are plenty of marks bitching endlessly IN THIS THREAD about him losing, what 3 fucking times?

But really, if you haven't been calling him a jobber, it wouldn't apply to you, then would it? Your line was perfect to quote, however.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Riiiiight and Orton became boss of WWE when? Vince is the one that makes the decision you are talking bollocks my friend


Who said anything about Orton? What happens is creative/booking comes up with an idea. Hey, we want to do so and so with Kofi. Vince says sure, go with it. That is what gets on air. Vince doesn't care enough about Kofi to try to intentionally ruin him. He was never hated by Vince that we know of and he never was protected enough that Vince would go out of his way to fix any stalled momentum. He let creative/booking go wild and they unintentionally ruined his momentum. That happens to a lot of Superstars.

Great recent example, someone in creative/booking says, hey let's turn Christian heel. Then let's try an extended Orton feud. Then let's go on to Sheamus as he needs a heel opponent. Vince approves it all. The problem is creative/booking didn't know what to do with Christian and thus he fell from the #1 heel to the #4 heel on Smackdown.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic (Apr 7, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton could lose 50 consecutive matches clean and he'd still be a top five guy in the eyes of the marks.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

And he'd still get bashed for it by his haters because he didnt job in 51 straight.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> Who said anything about Orton? What happens is creative/booking comes up with an idea. Hey, we want to do so and so with Kofi. Vince says sure, go with it. That is what gets on air. Vince doesn't care enough about Kofi to try to intentionally ruin him. He was never hated by Vince that we know of and he never was protected enough that Vince would go out of his way to fix any stalled momentum. He let creative/booking go wild and they unintentionally ruined his momentum. That happens to a lot of Superstars.
> 
> Great recent example, someone in creative/booking says, hey let's turn Christian heel. Then let's try an extended Orton feud. Then let's go on to Sheamus as he needs a heel opponent. Vince approves it all. The problem is creative/booking didn't know what to do with Christian and thus he fell from the #1 heel to the #4 heel on Smackdown.


So why the fuck do people blame Orton then? Vince has final say on what happens NOT Orton. The way some piss and moan about how Orton got him depushed they act like Randy owns the damn company. There is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER Orton did a fucking thing to Kofi. For all you know Orton had fuck all to do with it and really..who gives a fuck about something that apparently happened over 2 years ago? Is Kofi dirt poor and homeless over an alleged depush? No and he's had a ton of sucess since by holding titles and getting top billing, he's even got to pin top stars so one incident hasnt affected his career one bit. Its people here acting butthurt like Orton kicked Kofi's dog into the path of a train when the incident was nothing.

I would agree if Kofi was losing every match since that night and getting no screen time...but guess what he's not so i wish people would stop believing everything dirtsheets say and take it as the honest truth. If Meltzer said Orton walks around backstage naked everyone would take it to be true. Meltzer gets shit wrong more often than not


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> So why the fuck do people blame Orton then? Vince has final say on what happens NOT Orton.


You're going to have to ask them. I don't know. I haven't blamed Orton. And most wrestling fans should know how things get booked.


----------



## TheVenomousViper (Nov 24, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I don't get it. Somebody explain what happened with Orton and Kofi please.


----------



## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



TheVenomousViper said:


> I don't get it. Somebody explain what happened with Orton and Kofi please.


They were did a spot where Kofi was supposed to get punted in the head, but he wouldn't stay down so Orton RKO'ed him instead and pretty much had a temper tantrum in the middle of the ring.


----------



## Pikos (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I really mark when Orton loses, I'm tired of his Superman gimmick (we already have Cena, it's enough)


----------



## Trifektah (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

They are actually doing the right thing with Orton.

He is at the point in his career where he can lose to people and it will not make him look bad, it will only make them look good.

And they are using that to make Barrett look good.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Even in the match tonight sure he RKO'd Cody after the match and basically made him still the starof the match but he nodded to Bryan and left the ring to let him have his moment which was cool. And best of all he didnt smile after the match he lost like someone we know does.


----------



## natey2k4 (Feb 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> I agree that Orton's given FUCK ALL to do by creative he's just drifting into feuds mostly with no reason


Awwh, poor baby. 

Feels shitty watching him job all the time, isn't it? Similar to how Christian jobbed to Orton non-stop. 

See? Building a feud and trading wins is a good thing. Having the same matches over and over with the same result does nothing for the business or for the wrestler. Hell, I'd be inclined to say that despite Orton handily winning the feud with Christian, he came out looking WORSE than if he had of been chasing the title for 2-3 months. 

WWE bookers need to give their head a shake. It's all about the chase.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> Feels shitty watching him job all the time, isn't it? Similar to how Christian jobbed to Orton non-stop.


Can people read my posts before talkiing bollocks please?

When have i EVER bitched about Orton winning and losing...oh thats right NEVER


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



natey2k4 said:


> Awwh, poor baby.
> 
> Feels shitty watching him job all the time, isn't it? Similar to how Christian jobbed to Orton non-stop.
> 
> ...


 The orton/Christian feud produced great matches and despite what some Christian fans might say Christian looked competitive in the matches even in losses. Thats isn't what happened in the Sheamus feud where he got buried. Sure Christian could have gotten another cheap win against orton but he couldn't win clean since it wouldn't fir his heel character. I think some Christian fans need to remember nine months ago Christian was never meant to be champion but now he is a two time champ and is a legit main eventer instead of the mid-carder they made him for so long


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JuviJuiceIsLoose said:


> They were did a spot where Kofi was supposed to get punted in the head, but he wouldn't stay down so Orton RKO'ed him instead and pretty much had a temper tantrum in the middle of the ring.


It was dirtsheets that claimed Kofi fucked up the spot there is no proof his "tantrum" wasnt in chaacter yet people take the word of the net as truth. The bare facts are nobody has proof it happened either way they take what that dumbfuck Meltzer claims to be true. Orton even said in an interview the supposed tantrum was in character. I think people need to let it go because its going to be a subject where many people have opnions and no solid facts. Its the same stuff as the constant "Punk has heat" stories that kept popping up right as he kept winning titles so who the fuck knows


----------



## iSCrEaMxDeaTh (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

So according to OP just because Orton isn't on the title picture "for now" he's being treated like shit?
fpalm


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> I think some Christian fans need to remember nine months ago Christian was never meant to be champion but now he is a two time champ and is a legit main eventer instead of the mid-carder they made him for so long


Christian main evented TNA and ECW. So he was a main eventer before injury.

As for Smackdown, he's still not a legitimate main eventer because of booking. If it's a tag match, he main evented a few times because Smackdown is low on heels and Christian can make anyone look good. They also hadn't built up Barrett/Rhodes fully. But even when he had the title, he wasn't booked to main event. Booking has firmly placed him as a midcarder who can fill in for the main event when no other heels make sense to put there as they are being protected or aren't available. And with Rhodes/Barrett being built up, his main event opportunties are going to be limited unless he flips face in the future.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> It was dirtsheets that claimed Kofi fucked up the spot there is no proof his "tantrum" wasnt in chaacter yet people take the word of the net as truth. The bare facts are nobody has proof it happened either way they take what that dumbfuck Meltzer claims to be true. Orton even said in an interview the supposed tantrum was in character. I think people need to let it go because its going to be a subject where many people have opnions and no solid facts. Its the same stuff as the constant "Punk has heat" stories that kept popping up right as he kept winning titles so who the fuck knows


We're likely to never find out the 'truth' until Kofi retires and gets asked it in an interview. He would be too happy to keep his job and stay quiet until then. But there's plenty of circumstantial nonsense with it- his push went away shortly after, he hasn't been elevated back to that type of position since, etc. Even if you hold midcard/tag titles, if you aren't wrestling big names, it just doesn't matter, you aren't getting a big push.

Oh wow, Orton said it was in character? When has he ever hit an RKO after not landing a punt on anyone else and called them stupid loudly after? Or even done anything other than go for a pin? Sounds like he's trying to cover it up, gloss over it. Did you really think, that while employed with the same company, he'd go on RECORD and say he got a co-worker de-pushed? Jesus.





CaptainObvious said:


> Christian main evented TNA and ECW. So he was a main eventer before injury.
> 
> As for Smackdown, he's still not a legitimate main eventer because of booking. If it's a tag match, he main evented a few times because Smackdown is low on heels and Christian can make anyone look good. They also hadn't built up Barrett/Rhodes fully. But even when he had the title, he wasn't booked to main event. Booking has firmly placed him as a midcarder who can fill in for the main event when no other heels make sense to put there as they are being protected or aren't available. And with Rhodes/Barrett being built up, his main event opportunties are going to be limited unless he flips face in the future.



They should just book him like DDP- give him the title here and there to refresh a feud, but not treat him like a top star, otherwise. Most fans would be ok with that.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> We're likely to never find out the 'truth' until Kofi retires and gets asked it in an interview. He would be too happy to keep his job and stay quiet until then. But there's plenty of circumstantial nonsense with it- his push went away shortly after, he hasn't been elevated back to that type of position since, etc. Even if you hold midcard/tag titles, if you aren't wrestling big names, it just doesn't matter, you aren't getting a big push.
> 
> Oh wow, Orton said it was in character? When has he ever hit an RKO after not landing a punt on anyone else and called them stupid loudly after? Or even done anything other than go for a pin? Sounds like he's trying to cover it up, gloss over it. Did you really think, that while employed with the same company, he'd go on RECORD and say he got a co-worker de-pushed? Jesus.
> 
> ...


 Hate to break it some people but kofi wasn't gonna be a main eventer anyway. I mean he is a mid to upper mid-carder. Also if you are too dumb to forget the entire ending to a match then you don't deserve anything. Its not like Kofi has been in the doghouse i mean he has had success since then


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Hate to break it some people but kofi wasn't gonna be a main eventer anyway. I mean he is a mid to upper mid-carder. Also if you are too dumb to forget the entire ending to a match then you don't deserve anything. Its not like Kofi has been in the doghouse i mean he has had success since then


I personally couldn't care less what Kofi does, never been a fan of him. But to say he wouldn't have been, well, that would imply you could see the future. Can you?

People forget spots all the time, it's about improvisation and selling. We saw the punt averted plenty of times in the past, for one reason or another. We as fans wouldn't know the difference. And if he didn't throw a tantrum after hitting the RKO, nobody would have suspected a thing. Why would we?

And here we go, back to the old argument that Kofi is still working and is fine. Would you be ok if Orton suddenly went down to the midcard and never had world title matches again, for forgetting to do something? Perhaps job out in every PPV, lose to folks like Zach Ryder, Dolph, and John Morrison? He'd still be getting paid, and on TV, so that's cool, right?

Also, you forgot to answer my question about if he's ever done it before, to where it might even be in character.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> his push went away shortly after


Bullshit his push never went away he's at the spot he deserves in the midcard. Christ some fans live in a fantasy land wanting all the wrestlers to be main eventers. Just because you believe his push stalled does not mean it was Orton'sdoing. Maybe just maybe Vince didnt feel he was ready for a big push. Blaming Orton with no proof shows that some here are so fucking gulliable...gonna blame Orton for the depush of every midcarder? Gimme a break if there was evidence Orton did something wrong then fine, he'd be a prick for depushing a guy. But the only proof you got is his push APPERARED to stall? Really? I'd hate to see what you are like on a jury i bet you'd convict a guy based on less evidence


----------



## itssoeasy23 (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I think Randy Orton is being moved down the card a notch. It seem's like Sheamus is beginning to be booked as the top face of Smackdown and Orton is becoming another wrestler.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Bullshit his push never went away he's at the spot he deserves in the midcard. Christ some fans live in a fantasy land wanting all the wrestlers to be main eventers. Just because you believe his push stalled does not mean it was Orton'sdoing. Maybe just maybe Vince didnt feel he was ready for a big push. Blaming Orton with no proof shows that some here are so fucking gulliable...gonna blame Orton for the depush of every midcarder? Gimme a break if there was evidence Orton did something wrong then fine, he'd be a prick for depushing a guy. But the only proof you got is his push APPERARED to stall? Really? I'd hate to see what you are like on a jury i bet you'd convict a guy based on less evidence


Why do you think he deserves to not be in the main event? I think he deserves a title run, just because it would be different. And I'm not even a Kofi mark! Fuck, he at least has some personality, instead of *furrow eyebrows, pound mat, apply baby oil, RKO, walk away*. And if you notice, I didn't blame Orton, I said there was lots of circumstantial evidence. A very clear difference.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



itssoeasy23 said:


> I think Randy Orton is being moved down the card a notch. It seem's like Sheamus is beginning to be booked as the top face of Smackdown and Orton is becoming another wrestler.


I don't see Orton becoming just another wrestler. He's too highly regarded by Vince for that to happen. But as I wrote before, if they get Sheamus built up enough, they can do an Orton vs. Sheamus feud and it would help both men. Sheamus becomes the face of Smackdown and Orton returns to the heel character that he obviously wants to be. I think flipping heel would help Orton a lot on the mic as he would feel much more comfortable in that role.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainObvious said:


> This has to be a troll post. Orton's been booked very well and has been protected. When he's lost, he should have lost. It's just good booking. Actually, I'd argue he should have lost more. With them building up Barrett and Rhodes as main event heels and Sheamus as the #2 face, there's no need for Orton to go on a giant win streak. Making him vulnerable does a lot more to make other heels look credible.





greendayedgehead said:


> _"Hurts, don't it?" the Christian marks laughed to the Orton marks_
> 
> But seriously, Orton up until recently has had crazy strong, Cena-like booking for a large part of his career. Booking that most guys only dream of. Right now he seems to be more 'disconnected' than ever (I don't know about everyone, but I've always got the impression from Orton that he wasn't fully here. Like when you're talking to someone and you know they're not paying attention... idk) but I think this is a good role for him. He works very well with the midcarders and to be honest it keeps him out of the title picture which is nothing but good in my eyes.


THIS THIS THIS THIS. 

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
Hurts to get laughed at once in a while after your favorite losing, right?
Feel how we felt. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

The Orton marks gotta be kidding me. Compering from how Christian has been treated, what Orton got was NOTHING.
And IDGAF if he's the top star or a hobo at a gas station. 
He's been booked super strong for this whole year and a few losses are getting you fired up? ARE YOU SERIOUS BRO?
Christian lost all but one match against Orton in their WHC feud and completely lost the Sheamus feud. 
And you Orton marks are complaining about Vince's golden boy? Please. 

Whew. The reason Orton has been losing is like many have stated before, the heels has to be taken more seriously.
OP, are you saying that it's okay for heels to lose all the time as long as the golden boy is protected like a superman? 
Heels winning one in a while is the best thing that could happen for wrestlers like Orton because when he beats that heel (IT ALWAYS HAPPEN), it's more dramatic not like the obvious Christian losing feuds. Like Cody lost at the end against Orton.
And I got mad that he did because he's supposed to be going over and to be built stronger.
ANYWAY, WWE cares too much about Orton so at the end, he'll probably beat Wade too.. Sadly.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



The XL said:


> Lol he beat Christian clean every time they wrestled. I hope he jobs to Barrett, Henry, and even Rhodes over and over. * That's what his role should be honestly, upper midcard/fringe maineventer who gets fed to top heels. He and Christian should switch roles, Christian should be a top player, not Orton.*


F'N THIS.

You know what, forget the bold part. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAID IS RIGHT. 
AGREED AS HELL.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> F'N THIS.
> 
> You know what, forget the bold part. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAID IS RIGHT.
> AGREED AS HELL.


 You seem a little bitter. I mean I'm not a Christian fan but I think he is a great wrestler and have no probelm with him being a top guy. I don't think its orton's fault its the creative. also I would be more bitter atheamus since he buried Christian. At least Christian beat orton a a little bit. Orton and Christian both deserved the top spots since ther are good wrestlers and are over


----------



## joeycalz (Jan 8, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

For every superstar Orton has legitimized (Henry, Miz, Christian) and created (Barrett, Cody) in the last year, he deserves the Superstar of the Year. I'm being dead serious. This has also been his personal best year in-ring wise too.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



joeycalz said:


> For every superstar Orton has legitimized (Henry, Miz, Christian) and created (Barrett, Cody) in the last year, he deserves the Superstar of the Year. I'm being dead serious. This has also been his personal best year in-ring wise too.


How did he legitimize Miz or Christian? Maaaybe you can make a case for Henry, but that's about it. I thought Barrett created Barrett? From the old Nexus angle on? Cody has been helped a lot, but Orton could do better by losing to him now and then, instead of always looking dominant.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> How did he legitimize Miz or Christian? Maaaybe you can make a case for Henry, but that's about it. I thought Barrett created Barrett? From the old Nexus angle on? Cody has been helped a lot, but Orton could do better by losing to him now and then, instead of always looking dominant.


 Didn't Miz beat orton like 3 times and orton never beat him so that helpes. Henry buried him so that helped. You make a point about Barrett since he got noticed from nexus however creative then did nothing with him for months until he started to feud with orton now he is strong again. Cody also has being brought up although he still ic champ so him going over a main eventer doesn't need to happen until he is past the ic title. So your argument doesn't hold water.


----------



## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

WTF!?

How many times did he beat Christian?

It was ridiculous.


----------



## TheCodeBreaker Y2J (Apr 4, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

The guy has been shitting on wrestlers left right and centre this year , wtf are you talking about.


You people make me laugh , literally if it was up to you Orton wouldnt lose again.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



TheCodeBreaker Y2J said:


> The guy has been shitting on wrestlers left right and centre this year , wtf are you talking about.
> 
> 
> You people make me laugh , literally if it was up to you Orton wouldnt lose again.


 maybe we are watching two different shows. i'll give you christian but remember thats not ortons decision. Cm Punk was pretty much on his way out so that would be dumb. Barret,Henry,Cody are all legit stars because of orton. Sheamus is actually started to get cena-like now


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Yeah,lets make a near 40 year old guy the top star over a guy barely over 30 whos not even in his prime yet. Man Im glad some of you on here dont book WWE or it'd have been out of business years ago. LOL. This isnt TNA.


----------



## muttgeiger (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Yeah,lets make a near 40 year old guy the top star over a guy barely over 30 whos not even in his prime yet. Man Im glad some of you on here dont book WWE or it'd have been out of business years ago. LOL. This isnt TNA.


Who gives a shit, if they are better, they are better. Not even saying that is the case here, but I'm sick of people constantly wanting to put older, better characters out to pasture, in favor of younger boring guys. That goes for TNA and WWE. Guess What, HHH, Bully Ray etc, are still more interesting than 99% or the 'young guns' in wrestling- If a young guy steps up and takes a spot, (like ziggler, for example seems to be doing) then great, but the handing over of spots based on age alone hurts the quality of the show.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton was at a point where he was like Cena, not only in booking but sometimes in crowd reaction, Orton has the potential to be loved by all, like he's right now and you need to make him humane, he's getting the perfect booking, not only he looks strong and humane, in the process he's putting talents over, even clean, you need to get him sympathy, if you kill your opponents every week, why they would want to see you beat them in the end? besides that, Orton is always getting his win back.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Rock316AE said:


> Orton was at a point where he was like Cena, not only in booking but sometimes also in crowd reaction, Orton has the potential to be loved by all, like he's right now and you need to make him humane, he's getting the perfect booking, not only he looks strong and humane, in the process he's putting talents over, even clean, you need to get him sympathy, if you kill your opponents every week, why they would want to see you beat them in the end? besides that, Orton is always getting his win back.


damn i agree with this guy


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Rock316AE said:


> Orton was at a point where he was like Cena, not only in booking but sometimes in crowd reaction, Orton has the potential to be loved by all, like he's right now and you need to make him humane, he's getting the perfect booking, not only he looks strong and humane, in the process he's putting talents over, even clean, you need to get him sympathy, if you kill your opponents every week, why they would want to see you beat them in the end? besides that, Orton is always getting his win back.


If WWE can book Orton like this why do they insist on making Cena always win and only lose via flukes and have him SMILE like a twat when he does get screwed over


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I don't think Orton is being booked badly. Although i do think orton is one of the more underappreciated in ring tlents because of his spot. Also if you listen to interviews he always talks about guys who should be given pushes like cody and barrett and today it looks like orton has helped get them those pushes.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> If WWE can book Orton like this why do they insist on making Cena always win and only lose via flukes and have him SMILE like a twat when he does get screwed over


Cena is pretty much the Austin, and Orton is the Rock of this time. The only problem with Cena is that he is always in the ME picture, or over shadowing the WWE title. Orton is being booked very well, sure, he may have went over Punk badly, but Punk recovered easily and that is all that matters. I once read, Orton likes to work with the younger/newer and up&coming guys, I don't know what happened with Kofi but it was unfortunate I guess, but Kofi is still very over with the crowed. I really wouldn't be upset if Orton won the Rumble, the dude is always trying to make other superstars look strong the best he can, but I don't think any star is gonna just sit back, job, and then go on to the next especially someone of Orton's status.

Orton lost clean to Swagger, and lost to Miz 3 times, give the man some credit. If Orton was being treated like shit, it would be very noticeable.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

At least with Orton matches you dont know if he'll win or lose with every Cena match you just know he'll win


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



muttgeiger said:


> Who gives a shit, if they are better, they are better. Not even saying that is the case here, but I'm sick of people constantly wanting to put older, better characters out to pasture, in favor of younger boring guys. That goes for TNA and WWE. Guess What, HHH, Bully Ray etc, are still more interesting than 99% or the 'young guns' in wrestling- If a young guy steps up and takes a spot, (like ziggler, for example seems to be doing) then great, but the handing over of spots based on age alone hurts the quality of the show.


This. Exactly. I'm amazed at the age obsession on this board. Age doesn't mean anything if you can still hold a position in the ring. If it was up to this board, everyone over 35 would be fired or not win a single match ever. Good thing WWE hasn't followed that booking strategy yet or else the roster would be in even worse shape.

People should be used correctly. Orton is doing fine just where he is and is being used correctly. He's at a position where he should be putting people over. Christian hasn't been used correctly at all recently. Putting every single person on the roster over did nothing to maintain his recent heel turn. Age has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> At least with Orton matches you dont know if he'll win or lose with every Cena match you just know he'll win


And here comes the classic misdirection. People hate Orton? Quick point them at Cena!


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> And here comes the classic misdirection. People hate Orton? Quick point them at Cena!


Does this site offer an "ignore an annoying member" function by any chance


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Yeah, the ignore list.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

And to Borias,its his famous "If I cant prove any point,make a lame excuse comeback!"


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Does this site offer an "ignore an annoying member" function by any chance





mst3rulz said:


> And to Borias,its his famous "If I cant prove any point,make a lame excuse comeback!"


March of the blind Orton marks continues! But really, I at least back up my claims, and don't totally shit all over Orton while making my points, which is something Orton marks have a difficult time doing to whoever they're tearing into at the time.

Oh mst- what point haven't I proved/explained thoroughly?


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> You seem a little bitter. I mean I'm not a Christian fan but I think he is a great wrestler and have no probelm with him being a top guy. I don't think its orton's fault its the creative. also I would be more bitter atheamus since he buried Christian. At least Christian beat orton a a little bit. Orton and Christian both deserved the top spots since ther are good wrestlers and are over


Who said I blamed Orton? 

This thread is about Orton, not Sheamus. 
If this thread's name was "Sheamus lost against Barret, they shouldn't have done that he's a superman, blah blah blah, I would be like STFU, he lost one time and you're complaining? How about the feud with Christian? blah blah blah. 

I would say Christian is a great wrestler. Orton? Average.




muttgeiger said:


> Who gives a shit, if they are better, they are better. Not even saying that is the case here, but I'm sick of people constantly wanting to put older, better characters out to pasture, in favor of younger boring guys. That goes for TNA and WWE. Guess What, HHH, Bully Ray etc, are still more interesting than 99% or the 'young guns' in wrestling- If a young guy steps up and takes a spot, (like ziggler, for example seems to be doing) then great, but the handing over of spots based on age alone hurts the quality of the show.





CaptainObvious said:


> This. Exactly. I'm amazed at the age obsession on this board. Age doesn't mean anything if you can still hold a position in the ring. If it was up to this board, everyone over 35 would be fired or not win a single match ever. Good thing WWE hasn't followed that booking strategy yet or else the roster would be in even worse shape.
> 
> People should be used correctly. Orton is doing fine just where he is and is being used correctly. He's at a position where he should be putting people over. Christian hasn't been used correctly at all recently. Putting every single person on the roster over did nothing to maintain his recent heel turn. Age has nothing to do with it.


This. I hate how some thinks that because Christian is 37, not 40, 37, he can't be a main eventer. 
He has shown EVERYONE that he can do it at TNA and WWE in 2005. But no. Once Vince thinks something, his ego said to follow it.
He thought Christian wasn't main event material at first and when Christian proved him wrong in TNA, Vince still didn't let Christian be where he and the fans wanted him to be in 2005 and now. 
I'm sure Vince thinks if he puts Christian in the main event NOW, that would mean Christian proved him wrong. 
He probably doesn't want people below him proving him wrong.
WWE needs to wake up and realize Christian is where talent is at. 

AND TBH, IDGAF ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO SAY CHRISTIAN IS TREATED WELL. HE HAD THE TITLE TWICE AND NOW HE'S EVERYWHERE.
I KNOW THAT. I KNOW THAT. I KNOW THAT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE M.E. I'M TALKING ABOUT HIM BEING THE BEST ALL AROUND WRESTLER IN SD, NO, WWE AND HIM NOT GETTING WHAT HE DESERVES. THANK YOU AND BYE.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> Who said I blamed Orton?
> 
> This thread is about Orton, not Sheamus.
> If this thread's name was "Sheamus lost against Barret, they shouldn't have done that he's a superman, blah blah blah, I would be like STFU, he lost one time and you're complaining? How about the feud with Christian? blah blah blah.
> ...


 Relax man. I never said orton was getting treated badly. Also he has lost more than once recently. I mean Christian is a good wrestler but i think orton has proven he is also a good wrestler. I mean even though i'm not a christian fan i never bash him and am honest when i say he is a good wrestler


----------



## Mojo Stark (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Wait, so the guy that was puyshed and pushed and _pushed_ for years to eventually make it to an undeserved spot at the top, despite having average to good ring skills and little to no mic ability, despite being unable to connect with the crowd unless he was beating up old people and women, is treated like shit? 

Nice troll, OP


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Relax man. I never said orton was getting treated badly. Also he has lost more than once recently. I mean Christian is a good wrestler but i think orton has proven he is also a good wrestler. I mean even though i'm not a christian fan i never bash him and am honest when i say he is a good wrestler


Huh? Orton treated badly? What are you talking about?

The reason you don't bash Christian is because he's VERY talented.
Orton's wrestling skills are good but far away from great and his mic skills, you don't even wanna know.
Christian got both mic and ring skills which is rare right now and that is what WWE is lacking.

So when you have an all-round wrestler like Christian, why not use him correctly?
That's the F'N question I need answered. You have CM Punk also who has the same factor and he's talent is being shown. 
WHY NOT THE SAME FOR CHRISTIAN? SD needs someone like Punk and Christian is it. Just turn him face, god damnit.
Or if keeping him heel is what WWE really wants, why not have him be the cocky heel that everybody loved like in 2005?
The gimmick he has not is gutter shit and it doesn't help him or anybody in the roster.
After the Orton feud, Christian was left with very little momentum, if any and Sheamus sucked it all up like a vacuum after it.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> Huh? Orton treated badly? What are you talking about?
> 
> The reason you don't bash Christian is because he's VERY talented.
> Orton's wrestling skills are good but far away from great and his mic skills, you don't even wanna know.
> ...


 dude can you read? I said that i don't agree with the OP. I think orton is getting treated just fine. I can see you are getting excited an its starting to affect the way you function lol


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> dude can you read? I said that i don't agree with the OP. I think orton is getting treated just fine. I can see you are getting excited an its starting to affect the way you function lol


I can read but that has nothing to do with me. 
Excited? Of course, we're talking about Christian here.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> I can read but that has nothing to do with me.
> Excited? Of course, we're talking about Christian here.


 Well it does have something ro do with you since you went all schizo and accused me of saying something i never said lol. it was a little weird. Man if this what happenes when you are a Christian fan then i guess cocaine is not dangerous anymore lol


----------



## Superboy-Prime (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> At least with Orton matches you dont know if he'll win or lose with every Cena match you just know he'll win


Actually, you're kinda incorrect here. With every single Cena match you'll know he'll either win, or the guy he's facing wins via breaking the rules or gaining an unfair advantage.

However... your statement is certainly a 100% true whenever Cena's in an I quit match. Due to the fact that it goes against his "Never give up" motto.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> March of the blind Orton marks continues! But really, I at least back up my claims, and don't totally shit all over Orton while making my points, which is something Orton marks have a difficult time doing to whoever they're tearing into at the time.
> 
> Oh mst- what point haven't I proved/explained thoroughly?


Sorry you dont back up jack shit i ask for solid proof Orton buried Kofi and you just give a vague reply


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

And of course he ignores the FACT that since that Orton v Kofi match Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title in that 2 year span. So is that being depushed? I bet theres many wrestlers that would pay to be that 'depushed."

If Borias cant get over the FACT that Orton is putting over people this year and as always ignoring it than thats his fault.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> And of course he ignores the FACT that since that Orton v Kofi match Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title in that 2 year span. So is that being depushed? I bet theres many wrestlers that would pay to be that 'depushed."
> 
> If Borias cant get over the FACT that Orton is putting over people this year and as always ignoring it than thats his fault.


When Kofi was feuding with Orton he was in the upper midcard above the IC/US/Tag titles.

After the feud with Orton he dropped back to just midcard level.

Of course he was depushed. It was a drop in status.

If Kofi went over Orton he would have been main-eventing and world champ by now.

Orton marks just can't accept that by not putting Kofi over, Orton (and WWE creative) denied Kofi a world title in WWE


----------



## DX-HHH-XD (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

WWE's usage of Orton in the Smackdown brand is actually really interesting. He's without a doubt the biggest star on the show but it's hardly about him. For most of his 8th title reign(May-July), it was more about Christian than him. He got more promo time and appeared in more segments, and the story of their feud was about him. Yeah, he got jobbed out consecutively in their PPV matches and ultimately lost in their showdown at Summerslam but it was more to pave the way for Mark Henry.

Which leads us to title reign number 9, this reign was about Mark Henry's conquest of the World Championship that has eluded for 15 years, and just after four weeks since winning the title back, Orton dropped the title to Henry in the cleanest fashion possible and then two weeks later at HIAC. Since then, Orton dropped out of title contention and started having more matches with midcarders and a program with Rhodes and now, possibly Barrett.

Good usage of Orton's starpower if you ask me, and he strikes me as an old-school type of guy who just loves to perform in the ring as opposed to being the mic-guy, like in his programs with Henry, Christian, and Rhodes, they let them take center-stage and do most of the promo work and Orton is the guy that brings it in the ring.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



JCrusher said:


> Well it does have something ro do with you since you went all schizo and accused me of saying something i never said lol. it was a little weird. Man if this what happenes when you are a Christian fan then i guess cocaine is not dangerous anymore lol


lol really? I never noticed. 
Cocaine? I'm 14. I'm not crazy. 
But if it's about Christian, I'm always excited. 
You should see me when I watch WWE. Every time Christian comes, I scream. Happiest part of the show. 

You should also have seen me when CM Punk won the title at SS. I was so happy, I was doing the Anaconda Vise on my cat. 
And I made her tap like a b*tch. Yup, I literally took her hand and hit it on the floor like ADR.




> Simply Flawless:
> At least with Orton matches you dont know if he'll win or lose with every Cena match you just know he'll win


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Thanks for cheering me up there starship with those hilarious lines there. If you think Kofi was gonna get anywhere NEAR the WWE or World title after the Orton feud you're nuts. You actually think Vince would EVER push him that far? LOL.Hes not Vince's mold for a world or WWE champ.

There was no market for Kofi as Mysterio and Cena already had the kiddie market as their own and thats the only group Kofi fit in. And funny you dont mention all the stuff Orton did BEFORE that match for Kofi like ruin his race car,have him beat him at Survivor Series,have him eliminate him in a #1 contenders Battle Royal(The Ventura hosted Raw) and get boom dropped thru a table at MSG. Kofi always got the best of Orton before that match.

You make it sound like Kofi is at the Trent Baretta level.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Sorry you dont back up jack shit i ask for solid proof Orton buried Kofi and you just give a vague reply


That's because there isn't any hard proof. Not until their careers are done, and someone gives an interview about it. Did you expect there to be a memo in the back someone took a picture of that said, "Orton hates Kofi, he's getting buried. ~Vince"? NO. But there's a pretty good trail of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly suspicious that's what happened. And that's what I said. Do you really think Kofi or Orton would admit to such a thing while still employed by the WWE?



mst3rulz said:


> And of course he ignores the FACT that since that Orton v Kofi match Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title in that 2 year span. So is that being depushed? I bet theres many wrestlers that would pay to be that 'depushed."
> 
> If Borias cant get over the FACT that Orton is putting over people this year and as always ignoring it than thats his fault.


And Orton has had 3 world title runs since then, buried the entire New Nexus, put a halt on Wade Barrett's push (losing 2 matches in a row does this when you haven't been around a long time), made Christian's title win an utter joke. 

While he has lost twice to Mark Henry, (once clean, once with interference via Rhodes, who he then squashed in a feud) once to Barrett and once at Survivor Series (as if that really counts), and some losses earlier this year with dirty finishes, I wouldn't say he's going around putting people over. He's had like 2 clean losses in 12 months or more. It's stupefying.

So sure, let's have Orton drop down to the midcard, job a lot, lose to folks like Ziggler when a title is on the line, and be completely out the picture for over a year. And see how you feel about it then. 

Sadly, since the incident, Kofi in the ME scene is left back in a 'what could have been' type of deal. He hasn't even had time to put on good promos like he did with Orton. And they were good promo packages. What would you call not wrestling in the ME scene anymore, and not being promoted except as part of a tag team with 3 midcard titles that haven't meant crap in years?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Randy ran over a turtle once i bet people would use that to hate him as well


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Randy ran over a turtle once i bet people would use that to hate him as well


No, but I'm sure the turtle would be mad.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Thanks for cheering me up there starship with those hilarious lines there. If you think Kofi was gonna get anywhere NEAR the WWE or World title after the Orton feud you're nuts. You actually think Vince would EVER push him that far? LOL.Hes not Vince's mold for a world or WWE champ.


Naturally not...hence the whole point that Orton messed with his push. Thank you for agreeing with us.



mst3rulz said:


> There was no market for Kofi as Mysterio and Cena already had the kiddie market as their own and thats the only group Kofi fit in. And funny you dont mention all the stuff Orton did BEFORE that match for Kofi like ruin his race car,have him beat him at Survivor Series,have him eliminate him in a #1 contenders Battle Royal(The Ventura hosted Raw) and get boom dropped thru a table at MSG. Kofi always got the best of Orton before that match.
> 
> You make it sound like Kofi is at the Trent Baretta level.


Mysterio is injured. Kofi could easily target a different demo than Mysterio (they are very different types of personas).

He most certainly did not get the best of Orton. He had like 2 wins, one at Survivor Series, as the last survivor, and one with a fast counting ref who was biased against Orton. Never once that I can remember as a clean win. But Orton got plenty of those, and as a heel, no less. Not even as Superman Orton that we have now.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

You know guys, I figured out why *mst3rulz* doesn't use the quote function. Because when you compare his posts to the posts he replies to you'll see how stupid they really are.



mst3rulz said:


> And of course he ignores the FACT that since that Orton v Kofi match Kofi has won 2 IC titles,one US title and one tag title in that 2 year span. So is that being depushed? I bet theres many wrestlers that would pay to be that 'depushed."





starship.paint said:


> When Kofi was feuding with Orton he was in the upper midcard above the IC/US/Tag titles.
> 
> After the feud with Orton he dropped back to *just midcard level*.
> 
> Of course he was depushed. It was a drop in status.





mst3rulz said:


> You make it sound like Kofi is at the Trent Baretta level.


So I prove that Kofi is depushed and mst3rulz says I make Kofi sound like Baretta. Baretta has never won a US/IC/Tag title. He is not a midcarder. He is a *jobber*. I said Kofi was depushed from the upper midcard to the midcard. Learn to pass a literacy test my dear.


========


starship.paint said:


> If Kofi went over Orton he would have been main-eventing and world champ by now.
> 
> Orton marks just can't accept that by not putting Kofi over, Orton (and WWE creative) denied Kofi a world title in WWE





mst3rulz said:


> Thanks for cheering me up there starship with those hilarious lines there. If you think Kofi was gonna get anywhere NEAR the WWE or World title after the Orton feud you're nuts. You actually think Vince would EVER push him that far? LOL.Hes not Vince's mold for a world or WWE champ.
> 
> There was no market for Kofi as Mysterio and Cena already had the kiddie market as their own and thats the only group Kofi fit in. And funny you dont mention all the stuff Orton did BEFORE that match for Kofi like ruin his race car,have him beat him at Survivor Series,have him eliminate him in a #1 contenders Battle Royal(The Ventura hosted Raw) and get boom dropped thru a table at MSG. Kofi always got the best of Orton before that match.


Not Vince's mold for a world champ? Kids are where the money is made. That's why Cena's been a face for so long. He's a cash cow. He sells merch to kids. Kofi might not look like Mason Ryan but if you got kids and your side you've also got money on your side. Mason Ryan's not going to appeal to any group of people. If Kofi is appealing to kids he will appeal to Vince's money sense.

Talk about no market but Mysterio is getting old and broken down. It was never too early to look for a replacement for Rey.

Sure Kofi painted Orton's car and Boom Dropped him through a table and beat him at Surivor Series. Up, up and up!

Then Orton beat Kofi at TLC, again on Raw in January 2010, and again during a #1 contender's triple threat match where Orton pinned Kofi. RKO, RKO, RKO! Down, down, down!

End result after the feud: Orton wins the feud, Kofi is back to being a midcarder. Not a main-eventer, not an upper midcarder and not a jobber. He's never feuded with anyone as big as Orton after that.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Randy ran over a turtle once i bet people would use that to hate him as well


Of course I would hate him for that.
I would hate Orton for that more than the fact that he's:
-Boring
-no mic skills
-overrated ring-skills 
-goes ape shit but it's not even entertaining. rather sad. 
-Ruins every chance heels get to go to the main event because they always have to pass him and get stomped
-Vince's golden boy and gets to ditch the wellness policy fail like others mentioned before
-oily poopy body that makes me wanna vomit
- the fact that he wins almost every match but since he's been losing lately, Orton marks act like all the wins he got and the bury he gave Christian doesn't matter anymore 

Could list more but the point is running over a turtle is killing a living being and that's way more serious than anything I mentioned. It's not even close. And do you even know how cute a turtle is? I bet you don't. And you know what, lets add that to my list of many reasons I hate Orton: HE RAN OVER AN INNOCENT TURTLE!


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Well if Orton *purposely* ran over a turtle then he's a cold-hearted beast...


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> Well if Orton *purposely* ran over a turtle then he's a cold-hearted beast...


SAME SHIT. Either way, the turtle is dead. BE MORE CAREFUL AND IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN. 
So at the end, it's still he's fault for not being careful and killing an innocent turtle.

If somebody accidentally drop a knife on a person sleeping, would that make that incident any different?
He was not being careful and was stupid for dropping it. The man is still killed and innocent. 
AT THE END, THE MURDER IS STILL A MURDERER. 

ORTON IS A TURTLE MURDERER.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



starship.paint said:


> When Kofi was feuding with Orton he was in the upper midcard above the IC/US/Tag titles.
> 
> After the feud with Orton he dropped back to just midcard level.
> 
> ...


1. Kofi is black and was most likely not getting pushed
2. Kofi was ahead like 11-3 in their feud and was practically burying Orton before Orton finally won the match at TLC. If Kofi would have won, Orton would have lost every single encounter they had and would have been buried.
3. Kofi didn't go over cause Vince didn't want him to. And btw if he was to be punted, that's a pretty big deal to mess up as a punt changes the whole storyline
4. After the match Orton was "depushed" as well, feuding with Legacy and in the mid card of WM.



Borias said:


> That's because there isn't any hard proof. Not until their careers are done, and someone gives an interview about it. Did you expect there to be a memo in the back someone took a picture of that said, "Orton hates Kofi, he's getting buried. ~Vince"? NO. But there's a pretty good trail of circumstantial evidence that makes it highly suspicious that's what happened. And that's what I said. Do you really think Kofi or Orton would admit to such a thing while still employed by the WWE?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Burying the new nexus, is a good thing honestly, they all sucked, as is halting Barrett's push(when was this btw). Christian's run was messed up by creative and Christian's lack of a main event look. He looks like a bitch and shouldn't really be a permanent main eventer because of that tbh.

Oh and he's had at least 10 clean losses counting his tag matches on smackdown. He actually loses alot and shouldn't as a top face and top talent of Smackdown/wwe.

And I agree Kofi is a could have been, and imo should be int he main event, but I'll blame Vince and creative for that over Orton.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Again,if anyone thinks Kofi was gonna be anywhere near the WWE title then,I dont have to say anything,that says it all for the stupidity part of this arguement right there. Orton did all he could to get Kofi over and it still never worked. And not long after the Kofi feud Orton went mid card feuding w/ Barret and taking a back seat to Cena in it even though Orton was WWE Champ at the time.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> Burying the new nexus, is a good thing honestly, they all sucked, as is halting Barrett's push(when was this btw). Christian's run was messed up by creative and Christian's lack of a main event look. He looks like a bitch and shouldn't really be a permanent main eventer because of that tbh.
> 
> Oh and he's had at least 10 clean losses counting his tag matches on smackdown. He actually loses alot and shouldn't as a top face and top talent of Smackdown/wwe.
> 
> And I agree Kofi is a could have been, and imo should be int he main event, but I'll blame Vince and creative for that over Orton.


I would argue that the new nexus might have been suffering due to booking reasons, but they really didn't *all* deserve to be punted back to FCW. Some of them hadn't had a lot of time in yet, and could've improved in the midcard area. The Barrett halt isn't a dramatic halt or anything, but it was right when they had a couple matches, which Orton won all of them. Barrett just sort of stalled out after that. I'm by no means suggesting here that Orton had anything to do with that, just that he fizzled for a bit at that time. Probably creative giving a big shrug.

At least Christian looks better than ADR  But to be honest, he's the kind of guy that has to work harder at being in the ME, because he's not quite as popular as the others/a giant guy. But Christian does put in a lot of effort, and I give him credit for that.

I quite honestly don't remember that many clean losses since he was a face. (post Legacy days here) I admittedly could have missed some, but I only can think of a couple. And if his partner takes the fall in a tag match, I'm not sure I'd count that, maybe 1/2.



mst3rulz said:


> Again,if anyone thinks Kofi was gonna be anywhere near the WWE title then,I dont have to say anything,that says it all for the stupidity part of this arguement right there. Orton did all he could to get Kofi over and it still never worked. And not long after the Kofi feud Orton went mid card feuding w/ Barret and taking a back seat to Cena in it even though Orton was WWE Champ at the time.


Did you just suggest that Orton tried to get Kofi over, after that whole debacle that this debate is about? And that he was midcard feuding with the WWE title? Jesus Christ. fpalm


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> Christian's run was messed up by creative and Christian's lack of a main event look. He looks like a bitch and shouldn't really be a permanent main eventer because of that tbh.


So that because someone doesn't use steroid or have a muscular body, that even though he actually has talent unlike most of the WWE roster, he can't be in the main event? 
He's ACTUALLY an all-round wrestler which only him and Punk possesses. 
Who gives a shit about a wrestlers look? Is this a modeling contest? 
I get that kids are more into the superman looking retards but at the end, WWE is world wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. 
If you don't got the talent to entertain which requires both ring and mic skills, you don't deserve to be in the main event. 
And Christian has what it takes to be in the main event. And WWE is stupid for holding him back.

You said Christian shouldn't be a main eventer. Did you even see what he did in 2005? Did you see what he did in TNA?
If you did, it's idiotic to say Christian can't be a main eventer. He proved you and all the other doubters wrong.
But people like you still bitch because you're mad he proved you wrong.
You're the bitch in this situation, not Christian.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> I would argue that the new nexus might have been suffering due to booking reasons, but they really didn't *all* deserve to be punted back to FCW. Some of them hadn't had a lot of time in yet, and could've improved in the midcard area. The Barrett halt isn't a dramatic halt or anything, but it was right when they had a couple matches, which Orton won all of them. Barrett just sort of stalled out after that. I'm by no means suggesting here that Orton had anything to do with that, just that he fizzled for a bit at that time. Probably creative giving a big shrug.
> 
> At least Christian looks better than ADR  But to be honest, he's the kind of guy that has to work harder at being in the ME, because he's not quite as popular as the others/a giant guy. But Christian does put in a lot of effort, and I give him credit for that.
> 
> ...


I'm saying that Orton had lost to Kofi like 9 times in a row in segments and some matches(Survivor Series was a clean, 2 second win for Kofi) and that's really all Orton can do to get Kofi over. He can't continue to lose forever, he has to gain some credibility back. That's it. He lost his fair share of segments, and if you look at the score I'm pretty sure Kofi won more times. Orton won the matches, but tbh Kofi was still over, Vince just didn't push him.

Oh and in tag matches HE has been the one pinned by at least Christian a few time, Sheamus IIRC, and I know Mark Henry a few times.



CaptainCharisma said:


> So that because someone doesn't use steroid or have a muscular body, that even though he actually has talent unlike most of the WWE roster, he can't be in the main event?
> He's ACTUALLY an all-round wrestler which only him and Punk possesses.
> Who gives a shit about a wrestlers look? Is this a modeling contest?
> I get that kids are more into the superman looking retards but at the end, WWE is world wrestling ENTERTAINMENT.
> ...


I like Christian, I'm a fan and know he is very talented, but he still looks like a bitch and thus shouldn't be a permanent Main Eventer. It's just how it works, he doesn't look believable and thus can only win the title every once in a while to satisfy his fanbase and reward his skills. But at the end of the day he lacks a look and presence.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

What you think about all this hate, Randy?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Starbuck said:


> What you think about all this hate, Randy?


Too sexy to care


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> I like Christian, I'm a fan and know he is very talented, but he still looks like a bitch and thus shouldn't be a permanent Main Eventer. It's just how it works, he doesn't look believable and thus can only win the title every once in a while to satisfy his fanbase and reward his skills. But at the end of the day he lacks a look and presence.


Who gives a shit about looks? Wrestling is about wrestling. 
And how about CM Punk? He has the look and Christian doesn't? How about Daniel Bryan? 
His skills are way beyond most wrestlers. And I'm sure Christian is not in the ME not for his looks but the fact Vince is mad Christian proved him wrong.



Simply Flawless said:


> Too sexy to care


Yeah, it's sexy to have your skin color look like poop. 










NOW THIS IS SEXINESS.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Dark_Raiden said:


> I'm saying that Orton had lost to Kofi like 9 times in a row in segments and some matches(Survivor Series was a clean, 2 second win for Kofi) and that's really all Orton can do to get Kofi over. He can't continue to lose forever, he has to gain some credibility back. That's it. He lost his fair share of segments, and if you look at the score I'm pretty sure Kofi won more times. Orton won the matches, but tbh Kofi was still over, Vince just didn't push him.
> 
> Oh and in tag matches HE has been the one pinned by at least Christian a few time, Sheamus IIRC, and I know Mark Henry a few times.


I'll take your word for it, I don't remember the feud all that well except for a couple matches and the great promos they put on together. The car bit was particularly great, and showed us Kofi could do decent work on the mic. No idea why he doesn't get that kind of time now.




Dark_Raiden said:


> I like Christian, I'm a fan and know he is very talented, but he still looks like a bitch and thus shouldn't be a permanent Main Eventer. It's just how it works, he doesn't look believable and thus can only win the title every once in a while to satisfy his fanbase and reward his skills. But at the end of the day he lacks a look and presence.


They should book Christian like WCW used to book DDP: give him the title here and there, while building up a different feud. He can work as a heel or face well enough to make it happen to fit what they need, which can be invaluable if creative is stumped. Just no more of that 2(5) day title run. That was horrible.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> Who gives a shit about looks? Wrestling is about wrestling.
> And how about CM Punk? He has the look and Christian doesn't? How about Daniel Bryan?
> His skills are way beyond most wrestlers. And I'm sure Christian is not in the ME not for his looks but the fact Vince is mad Christian proved him wrong.
> 
> ...


How dare you say Cody is sexy he looks like a botched sex change


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> How dare you say Cody is sexy he looks like a botched sex change


CODY IS SEXY AS HELL. That's why the divas voted him as the hottest wrestler of the year. 
He looks just like the ones on Hollister bag pictures when I shop there. 
As for Orton, he looks like a mental hobo with poop skin.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> As for Orton, he looks like a mental hobo with poop skin.


At least he looks manly Cody looks too girl


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Isn't Cody dating Layla? He automatically wins.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton did loads to get Kofi over before the incident and if Kofi isnt good enough to even be in the right position to take an RKO or Punt than why even bother with him? He was never gonna be a top guy anyway. And the times Orton did beat him he usually had Legacy help so how does that make Kofi look "buried?"

Just like this Barrett fued hes trying to help build guys up(like a top guy should) but even Wade wouldnt screw up that bad like Kofi did. Kofi Kinston,WWE champ.LOL. That dont even look right reading it.And as for looks,at least Orton dont look like he just did a photo shoot for Out Magazine like Cody does when hes in those tidy whities.


And you dont need towels to wipe off when Orton talks to you unlike Mr. Lisp. Heres a sample of Cody talking to Layla 'Hi Swpppeetie, you look ppppretty today." Layla gets towel to wipe of face and clothes......


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> Orton did loads to get Kofi over before the incident and if Kofi isnt good enough to even be in the right position to take an RKO or Punt than why even bother with him? He was never gonna be a top guy anyway. And the times Orton did beat him he usually had Legacy help so how does that make Kofi look "buried?"


You know, I wonder how many times the wrestlers are in the wrong spot, forget a step and have to improvise. I bet it happens a ton. And we just don't know about it. At the time, it was conceivable that Kofi would maybe get a ME push. Was it a long shot? Sure. It was still possible tho, and that made it fun to watch. I get it that you hate him because of his look or whatever, but that's not really a good reason for someone to never get a world title run these days. Look at all the various folks that have held it.



mst3rulz said:


> Just like this Barrett fued hes trying to help build guys up(like a top guy should) but even Wade wouldnt screw up that bad like Kofi did. Kofi Kinston,WWE champ.LOL. That dont even look right reading it.And as for looks,at least Orton dont look like he just did a photo shoot for Out Magazine like Cody does when hes in those tidy whities.


You do realize Orton pushed back Barrett in a feud earlier this year(or was it last year?), right? But now he's a great guy for losing now? At this point it's basically evensies. Naturally Kofi Kinston WWE champ looks wrong, it's cause you misspelled it you dipshit.

I think there are more Orton 'gay' pictures made than Cody ones. And half of them are Orton with Cena. Take that for what you will...




mst3rulz said:


> And you dont need towels to wipe off when Orton talks to you unlike Mr. Lisp. Heres a sample of Cody talking to Layla 'Hi Swpppeetie, you look ppppretty today." Layla gets towel to wipe of face and clothes......


It's not spit she's wiping off with that towel....


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



> You do realize Orton pushed back Barrett in a feud earlier this year(or was it last year?), right?


No proof


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> No proof


What is it with you, do you want anything that you disagree with to come with a notarized letter signed by Vince McMahon?

Wade was doing great, and then after that feud, he suddenly puttered out. I didn't say he tried to bury him or anything, but he was partially responsible (however inadvertent it may be) for that de-push. I consider what he's doing now to be making up for that nonsense that stunted Wade's growth.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> At least he looks manly Cody looks too girl


Cody has a baby face which is super cute. As for Orton... old poop hobo. 

HOT. <3333


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> What is it with you, do you want anything that you disagree with to come with a notarized letter signed by Vince McMahon?
> 
> Wade was doing great, and then after that feud, he suddenly puttered out. I didn't say he tried to bury him or anything, but he was partially responsible (however inadvertent it may be) for that de-push. I consider what he's doing now to be making up for that nonsense that stunted Wade's growth.


If anyone buried Wade it was Cena go watch their match at TLC was it needed for Cena to drop the chairs on Wade? No so if anyone is to blame for Wade's fall its Cena not Orton


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton marks trying to compete with The Rock marks in terms of defending there idol. Sorry Orton marks but The Rock marks have you beaten, keep trying though


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> Cody has a baby face which is super cute. As for Orton... old poop hobo.
> 
> HOT. <3333


Orton in a towel > Cody


----------



## Mysterian (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I hate orton... he buried Kofi backstage, he is the reason kennedy got fired, he buried christian too.

he is a poor man's edge.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Mysterian said:


> I hate orton... he buried Kofi backstage, he is the reason kennedy got fired, he buried christian too.
> 
> he is a poor man's edge.


Wrong on at least two cases.

1. Kofi just didn't seem ready to main event as evidenced by the accident. Haters will try to make excuses "oh, you realize how many times mistakes are made and we don't notice?" Well, Orton clearly told Kofi to stay down and even pushed him to the ground twice or so I remember. Kofi still got up and Orton had to perform a clearly unplanned RKO.

2. Probably part of it, Kennedy's injury proneness, Shawn Michaels and John Cena are other reasons for that. The others also didn't want to work with him for being reckless and botching a lot. In Cena's case, he made a mistake that caused him to vacate a title reign that someone else could have benefited from in getting over as Cena had held it for over a year.

3. Sheamus buried Christian even more and Christian is not new to being buried at all. WWE management love to hold him back and if you wanna talk about recent histories of being buried - at least Orton let him get the upper-hand numerous times, took clean pins in tag matches and title shots to the head to end the show as well as a loss (it was by DQ, but at least Christian did get a second reign). In Sheamus' case, I don't ever remember Christian getting the upperhand apart from shouting at him after distractions causing Sheamus to lose the match he had.


And big lol @ blaming Orton for "burying" Barrett last year even though he didn't even beat him clean in their last title match. Him going over at Survivor Series contributed to the Cena-Barrett storyline, nothing to do with all that hot garbage about "burying".


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Orton in a towel > Cody


Cody in suit >>>>>>>> Orton in a towel
Miz in suit >>>>>>>>>>> Orton in a towel
Ziggler in suit >>>>>>>>> Orton in a towel





































I couldn't find a good picture of Ziggler with the pink suit but found one with cool suit.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Borias said:


> What is it with you, do you want anything that you disagree with to come with a notarized letter signed by Vince McMahon?
> 
> Wade was doing great, and then after that feud, he suddenly puttered out. I didn't say he tried to bury him or anything, but he was partially responsible (however inadvertent it may be) for that de-push. I consider what he's doing now to be making up for that nonsense that stunted Wade's growth.


How was Orton responsible? He's not the boss. Vince McMahon is. Vince and the writers tell Orton what to do. It's not like Orton went out and won matches he was told to lose. All he did was follow the script.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



EnglishWrestling said:


> How was Orton responsible? He's not the boss. Vince McMahon is. Vince and the writers tell Orton what to do. It's not like Orton went out and won matches he was told to lose. All he did was follow the script.


Sadly some here think Orton's the boss of WWE


----------



## IrishViper (Nov 26, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

The real thing this OP should have is.

Why is Randy Orton drafted onto an inferior brand like Smackdown, everybody knows its rubbish. So why take him off the limelight, even if we are having these "supershows"


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



IrishViper said:


> The real thing this OP should have is.
> 
> Why is Randy Orton drafted onto an inferior brand like Smackdown, everybody knows its rubbish. So why take him off the limelight, even if we are having these "supershows"


Because he's not nearly the merchandise draw that Cena is. Raw already has their top face. Smackdown didn't have one when Edge retired, so Orton moved over. Orton isn't going on Raw for a while as he isn't needed. Vince has made sure Smackdown is his show and that's where Orton will stay. And looking at how the brands are shaping up, Orton staying on Smackdown is the correct move. When he flips heel as Sheamus becomes the #1 face, he'll be even more valuable on Smackdown.


----------



## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Orton is forever in the title picture, OMG THE WWE IS CERTAINLY TREATING HIM LIKE SHIT.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



IrishViper said:


> The real thing this OP should have is.
> 
> Why is Randy Orton drafted onto an inferior brand like Smackdown, everybody knows its rubbish. So why take him off the limelight, even if we are having these "supershows"


Randy was forever in Cena's shadow there was no way he was gonna be put on the same level thats why he got sent to SD


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

You do realize Boriass that Orton took a back seat to Barrett v Cena right? Even though Orton was WWE champ at the time so Orton didnt bury Wade,Cena did. The times Orton did beat Wade he had Cena's help so again,hows that burying Wade again?

Remember Wade v Cena in a 3 minute squash match on S-Down about 3 months ago? Did Orton ever squash Wade like that? No. And Orton has done 2 jobs to Wade the past month alone.How many has Cena done to Wade ever? And Im glad you know what it was Layla was wiping off w/ Cody. Im sure you need to watch them and learn since you're probably a virgin anyway as much as you seem to be on here.

And captain,youre scaring me with all this talk about which guy is better looking in suits,towels,tights etc. You coming out next?


----------



## Mysterian (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Sadly some here think Orton's the boss of WWE


orton is not the boss but he certainly has the pull backstage. He can bury any young superstar, if he wanted to & i am sure he is going to continue doing that in the future.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

And you know this how? You a WWE mole or something? And how many 'young superstars" has he buried this year? None, thats how many. If anything he's helped lots of them look like his equal which is what a top guy should do.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I think this board should ban the word "bury" since everyone has no fucking clue what it means


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> You do realize Boriass that Orton took a back seat to Barrett v Cena right? Even though Orton was WWE champ at the time so Orton didnt bury Wade,Cena did. The times Orton did beat Wade he had Cena's help so again,hows that burying Wade again?
> 
> Remember Wade v Cena in a 3 minute squash match on S-Down about 3 months ago? Did Orton ever squash Wade like that? No. And Orton has done 2 jobs to Wade the past month alone.How many has Cena done to Wade ever? And Im glad you know what it was Layla was wiping off w/ Cody. Im sure you need to watch them and learn since you're probably a virgin anyway as much as you seem to be on here.
> 
> And captain,youre scaring me with all this talk about which guy is better looking in suits,towels,tights etc. You coming out next?


if you talk about captaincharisma well that user is a girl so i dont think its that scary


----------



## RKO1988 (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

because wwe has no idea how to use him. Just like they didn't know how to use Batista


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



RKO1988 said:


> because wwe has no idea how to use him. Just like they didn't know how to use Batista


uhmm orton is a nine time champ? and was an extremely good ic champ?
yeah if thats being treated like shit i want bryan barett and christian to have that treatment too


----------



## RKO1988 (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

i'd take quality over quantity. half of ortons reigns and feuds are forgettable.


----------



## rkomarkorton (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



RKO1988 said:


> i'd take quality over quantity. half of ortons reigns and feuds are forgettable.


exactly they hand him the belt when they have no other choice to or is forced to. last year for example they gave him the belt at noc because he was the most over wrestler in all of wrestling but his reign was forgettable also when he came to smackdown they gave him the belt to stamp him as the face of smackdown but his reign was forgettable


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



RKO1988 said:


> i'd take quality over quantity. half of ortons reigns and feuds are forgettable.


its like that for about 6 years now 
do you remember any of cenas reigns 
swaggers 
ZIGGLERS!!!

well i still dont think he is being treated like shit 
he is actually one of the best booked guys and thats why he is over with the casuals 
look at cena booked like shit --> everyone hates him


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Turn my man Orton back heel


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Make him the heel that he was in 2007/08 on Smackdown


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

*Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

If anything WWE should turn my man Randy Orton heel, and make him the top heel on Smackdown, and make him like The Viper of old, becoming more dangerous than he ever has been before, a man full of venom and malice, does not care about anyone or anything except himself and being champion, and just goes about punting people in the skull and RKOing people out of nowhere, not caring about who he even does it too, if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, they will get one of the other, doesn't matter, completely turns his back on the fans, I would love it


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

Yes turn a popular and over star heel just because one person prefers his heel work. Fantastic business mind


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

With him as heel, it would be like fresh air


----------



## #Heel (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

but why when theres christian, henry, cody rhodes, barrett - theres really only orton and sheamus as major faces - d bry will be there after his title match


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

I think WWE lacks babyfaces and at this point in time Orton is one of there most over faces in the company so they must ride it out as long as they can. When the time comes I would love to see Orton turn heel again but I think you have to keep him babyface because guys like Henry, Barrett, Rhodes, Christian are doing just fine as solid heels on Smackdown. Perhaps in about six to seven months from now I would love to see Orton turn heel and get switched back to Raw and carry the show as the top heel. Than again, I don't want Cena going to Smackdown because he would destroy the good things that are developing there and I'm pretty sure WWE wants Orton and Cena on seperate brands so whatever direction they take Cena's character could dictate Orton's character as well. I would be shocked if Orton didn't turn heel and have another good heel run before his career is all said and done.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

Why do you think they wont turn Cena? Money same with Orton so until his pops and popularity dies he's staying face


----------



## CB Wanalaya (Nov 26, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

^ Yeah I'd love to see Rhodes and Barrett get a nice big push before they turn Randy heel. PLus last time they had Randy hell people were cheering him anyway.


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

Then he should do something to really make the fans despise him


----------



## Edgeheadpeeps (May 4, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Terry Gyimah said:


> Then he should do something to really make the fans despise him


Yeah but that'd be very difficult. Remember this is the same guy who got cheered for punting Vince and hitting Stephanie with the RKO. What can he do to make people boo him?


----------



## Ryu Hayabusa (Feb 1, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

He's far too popular to turn heel by the end of his heel run he was getting face like reactions


----------



## RKO1988 (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Edgeheadpeeps said:


> Yeah but that'd be very difficult. Remember this is the same guy who got cheered for punting Vince and hitting Stephanie with the RKO. What can he do to make people boo him?


Spit in The Rock's face.


----------



## Ryan93 (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

As stated he's way too popular.

Creative never intended on turning Orton face, the fans made them.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

Theres no such thing as a memorable title reign in Vince Jr's WWE now because he can care less about titles. Theyre just toys to him so nobody wil, have any memorable title reigns as long as he's in charge.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

Theres a HUGE lack of faces already on S-Down so why would they do that? Unless they do another 'trade' w/ Raw that dont make sense at all.


----------



## ando_10 (Feb 25, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

if anything they need more faces wwe has a shit load of heels.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



ando_10 said:


> if anything they need more faces wwe has a shit load of heels.


IK. And it's funny how all of them are cowards.. except Mark Henry but he looked like one last week.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> And captain,youre scaring me with all this talk about which guy is better looking in suits,towels,tights etc. You coming out next?


First, I'm a girl so it's not creepy at all. Cody is hot and I'll say it all I want. 
Second, Simply Flawless was the one that said Orton in towel > Cody so don't just point at me.




mst3rulz said:


> Theres no such thing as a memorable title reign in Vince Jr's WWE now because he can care less about titles. Theyre just toys to him so nobody wil, have any memorable title reigns as long as he's in charge.


I agree that most are but not all. CM Punk's reign will most likely remembered. 
Although the whole era Punk brought in July will be remembered much more but his reign just started and he stated he was going make changes. That he was going to make WWE cool again and I believe he will. 

Christian's will also be remembered as it was the most emotional win and it was a terrible reign. People will look back and say "Oh, Christian won that belt at Extreme rules and it was the most emotional thing ever. It sucks it only lasted 5 days." 

Mark Henry's might also be remembered since he dominated SD. 

If Daniel Bryan wins at WM, it will probably be remembered since it's DOMINATING GORILLA VS LITTLE BUT CAN KICK ASS ANT.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

I'd mark. Heel Orton > Face Orton imo.


----------



## EnglishWrestling (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

No, I will not turn Orton heel any time soon.

-Sincerely, Vince McMahon


----------



## dynamite452 (Oct 18, 2010)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

Orton's not turning heel, the only way he turns heel is if the fans turn on him. Not happening right now, the fans were the ones who made him a face.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



> Creative never intended on turning Orton face, the fans made them.


Orton could punt a baby into the 5th row and fans would still cheer him he's at a point now that unless he killed Hornswoggle live on Raw he's not gonna get booed


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



CaptainCharisma said:


> First, I'm a girl so it's not creepy at all. Cody is hot and I'll say it all I want.
> Second, Simply Flawless was the one that said Orton in towel > Cody so don't just point at me.
> 
> 
> ...


Your a girl?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Simply Flawless said:


> Why do you think they wont turn Cena? Money same with Orton so until his pops and popularity dies he's staying face


Cena isn't turning because there isn't a single person on roster with the merchandise power that Cena has.

Orton is a completely different story. If they keep building Sheamus up, within a year, he will be at the same position Orton is at now with potential merchandising and crowd pull. It's very possible that they will turn Orton heel and Sheamus becomes the number one face of Smackdown. In fact, with the way they booking Sheamus, it would be foolish for creative not to set up a Sheamus vs. Orton feud next year with Orton turning heel. You have a Smackdown with the #1 face Sheamus and the #1 heel Orton. It's set for a while on the blue brand, until injury or retirement of either man. Much like Cena is the #1 face of Raw and The Miz is the #1 heel of Raw. This won't change either.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> Your a girl?


Yup.


----------



## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

This thread is pretty stupid.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*

SD has a lack of faces they wont turn Orton why is this concept hard to grasp


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



mst3rulz said:


> Theres a HUGE lack of faces already on S-Down so why would they do that? Unless they do another 'trade' w/ Raw that dont make sense at all.


Actually, the reverse is true. There is a severe lack of credible heels to the point that it's hard to elevate all of the faces they have now. Even with Sin Cara out, they have Sheamus, Orton, Bryan, Big Show, DiBiase, and soon Zeke to all build and maintain. That's 6 faces. Smackdown has 3 credible heels, Henry, Barrett, and Rhodes. Christian isn't credible at all. Hunico is just being built up and is new. It's a 6 on 3 scenario. If anything, Smackdown needs heels and they need someone from the face side to turn.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Simply Flawless said:


> SD has a lack of faces they wont turn Orton why is this concept hard to grasp


Because it's incorrect. I wrote a post below. It's a 6 to 3 situation, in favor of the faces on Smackdown. You can't just turn anyone without proper booking but to suggest it's a heel overload isn't the case at all.

And if Kane and Averno comes as faces, that's 8 now. And if Henry turns (which I hope doesn't happen for multiple booking and creative reasons), we're at 9 to 2 in favor of faces they want to push vs. credible heels.


----------



## Ryu Hayabusa (Feb 1, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Simply Flawless said:


> Orton could punt a baby into the 5th row and fans would still cheer him he's at a point now that unless he killed Hornswoggle live on Raw he's not gonna get booed


i'd mark like crazy if Orton took out Hornswoggle for good and im not the only one


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

*Re: Turn Orton heel, please, Orton can be the top heel on Smackdown*



Rahi said:


> i'd mark like crazy if Orton took out Hornswoggle for good and im not the only one


I wish Orton would punt that little fucker's head off he adds NOTHING to the shows and takes up airtime


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

If Orton punted him hed be more over than Hogan in the 80s.LOL.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

OP does have a point if you really think about it with a open mine..

What has wwe done to get Orton over as a face since he turned. I can't think of a thing, he just turned and thats it. Only difference is he fights bad guys. His whole face run has just been a pun to try and get somebody else over. 
While other recent turned face stars cmpunk and sheamus, you can tell wwe is trying to get you to cheer for them. With Orton they don't even try


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

*People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothing*

The only win he's had in 4 months has been against cody.

I got a question why is Orton hated for winning to much but Mark Henry isn't when he hasn't lost a single fucking match since getting drafted to smackdown. Excuse my lanuage just a bit grumpy on having to stay online to much cuz of cyber monday.

oh well paid off got a bunch of good movies and the new Assassins Creed game for 30 dollars brand spanking new woot


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

Once again orton puts over a guy. Even if orton does beat barret at TLC it won't hurt him at all since he has owned orton this whole feud. I agree if Orton keeps losing then it wont mean much anymore when people beat him


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

In this month hes lost only 4 matches out of 20 after tonight. And did you hear how over he was tonight? Yeah,hes really losing steam. Hes just doing what he should be doing and thats looking strong but at the same time putting guys over.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

yeah but why is it always him, why not cena. Orton's not going to be over much more if wwe keeps on ignoring him and throwing him into random matches he always loses.
All I'm asking for is a storyline that benfits Orton to help get him more over as a face cause quite frankly wwe hasn't done a single thing to make fans want to cheer for Orton, prove me wrong.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

Of course he will lose stream if he loses too many. Look at Christian, he came from getting a reaction to complete silence on the live shows/PPV for jobbing out too much. But it hasn't reached that point yet. Right now Orton is booked well.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Orton again shows how a top guy should be*

Another(fairly) clean job to Ziggler tonight. See how its done Cena? Its not too hard. And Orton was still over as hell tonight so I dont think the losses are hurting him at all. I think Wade will probably wrestle someone tomorrow and Orton will get even and cost Wade the match to set up hopefully a match at TLC.

Its refreshing to see a top guy really know how to do business the right way and lose nothing in return. Maybe he'll actually get a bit of respect on here for a change. Yeah,right.


----------



## superuser1 (Sep 22, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*



CaptainObvious said:


> Of course he will lose stream if he loses too many. Look at Christian, he came from getting a reaction to complete silence on the live shows/PPV for jobbing out too much. But it hasn't reached that point yet. *Right now Orton is booked well.*


my thoughts exactly he's winning some and losing some he isnt booked like a superman anymore


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

Again,from the sounds of the "RKO " and 'Randy" chants and the huge pop he got tonight,it dont look like hes losing anything w/ the fans. Not to mention all the RKO signs they showed all over the place. Plus Orton will more than likely get even w/ Wade tomorrow night.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Orton again shows how a top guy should be*

so he's supposed to lose all the time? Look whats happened to Christian he's become a joke. If he keeps this losing up a win will mean nothing


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*

Orton is so established that it'll still mean something.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: People do know if Orton keeps losing all the time a win over him will mean nothin*



superuser1 said:


> my thoughts exactly he's winning some and losing some he isnt booked like a superman anymore


This. Exactly. Smackdown is really low on credible heels. If Orton doesn't lose a few to make the heels look decent, there won't be any credible challengers for him or any other top face. Sheamus is protected as he should as a new face. He shouldn't be putting people over yet. There's no choice but Orton to be in this position. It might not make Orton fans happy, but in the long term it'll benefit him, his challengers, and the brand itself.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Orton again shows how a top guy should be*



snuggiedawg said:


> Look whats happened to Christian he's become a joke. If he keeps this losing up a win will mean nothing


Christian went 2-15-1 in his last 18 matched according to profightdb (excluding dark matches). If his record is that bad, then yes, he will. But there's no way his record will be that bad.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Orton again shows how a top guy should be*

You know you can put over superstars without losing, right?


----------



## Evolution (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*

I merged all the Orton threads. No need to have 3 threads talking about the same thing.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

People should stop comparing him to cena. orton can lose at times coz he doesnt draw shit but john cena is the top draw. If they have him lose like orton, the merch sales, ratings, buyrates everything gets affected.

if you dont understand the business, then shut the fuck up!!

Orton =\= Cena. 


Cena has even surpassed Rock in overall merch sales, orton is not even in the league. 

Stupid orton marks!!


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

*Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*

I think right now it's fair to say that Randy Orton is completely established as one of the top guys in the company, so much so that when he loses a match it doesn't hurt his credibility at all because of how much he's accomplished already in his career. Recently he's put over Barrett, Rhodes & Ziggler, who are all upper-midcarders and all of them have gotten pretty big rubs from those victories.

For me, it seems similar to the role HBK was given during his second run (2002-2010). HBK was a guy who, like Randy Orton, was already completely established as a MEer because of all the guys he'd beaten and everything he'd accomplished, but they kind of put him in a role where he could get less established guys to a higher tier and build some new stars, all the while being able to slot into the ME scene when necessary. I don't know whether it'll be like this forever but right now, it looks a lot like Randy Orton is stepping away from being the no.2 star in the company into a more reserved role like Shawn had.

Discuss


----------



## Mr.S (Dec 21, 2009)

*Re: Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*

HBK role??? Orton is a 10 time champion & will probably win 10 more World Titles. How many times was Hbk the World Champion???

Anyways how long has it been??? 4-5 months??? Cena did not have the title for more than a year too. You cant always let Cena & Orton hog the titles. He is stepping back & putting a few guys over. He'll come back stronger after quite a few months. Maybe not this Mania but in 1 year time he will probably have the title.

Besides nobody is "given" the HBK role. Shawn probably lost interest in being the World Champion. I dont think anybody else would. They are all competitive. Even Nash wont refuse a title reign. It makes all kayfabe stronger & it's a matter of prestige & position anyway. I dont see anyone,Cena or Orton refusing titles.

Even taker did not. Taker even had 2-3 title reigns in the last 4-5 years,even when he was too old to be at his best & was even No-Showing Smackdown.


----------



## Xander45 (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*

I can see where you're coming from, and he's taking a step back from the world title scene for a bit.

I've got to give props to him, I've never been a huge Orton fan but he's doing what is right and good for business and helping put some young blood over so much respect for that.


----------



## Demolition Man (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*



Xander45 said:


> I can see where you're coming from, and he's taking a step back from the world title scene for a bit.
> 
> I've got to give props to him, I've never been a huge Orton fan but he's doing what is right and good for business and helping put some young blood over so much respect for that.


I agree you with... I am not a fan of Orton really but gotta respect what he has been doing lately.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*

Orton is my WOTY and is in the prime of his career but still manages to put the company first and not himself. He has had a lot of negative reports in the past about being unprofessional and immature but he's really proven those people wrong this year because he's been the most unselfish worker in the business by far. I think WWE knows that the guy is over, incredibile in ring worker, and has established himself as a main event for years. All those factors have played a huge part in putting over Mark Henry, Ziggler, Barrett and also giving Cody Rhodes a nice rub. I kind of see the comparision you are making in the 'HBK' role but the scary thing about that is Randy Orton is only 31 years old and still has at least four to five great years left in him and maybe even more if he keeps his body healthy. Love him or hate him, he's the most valuable guy to the company right now because the position he's currently in and how much impact he truely is having on all the young blood.


----------



## kennedy=god (May 12, 2007)

*Re: Randy Orton- Is he being given the "HBK role"?*



Mr.S said:


> HBK role??? Orton is a 10 time champion & will probably win 10 more World Titles. How many times was Hbk the World Champion???
> 
> Anyways how long has it been??? 4-5 months??? Cena did not have the title for more than a year too. You cant always let Cena & Orton hog the titles. He is stepping back & putting a few guys over. He'll come back stronger after quite a few months. Maybe not this Mania but in 1 year time he will probably have the title.
> 
> ...


HBK i think was a 6 time World Champ (It might be 5 actually, not really sure), Orton has more but that's only really because Orton has been around in an era where the title changes hands all the time. I don't see how it makes any difference anyway

Cena has been kept away from the title before as well but he was never put in Orton's position now, where he's losing to upper-midcarders, he was still clearly being built for another world title reign and remained a very key figure to the company as a whole. Same with HHH whenever he stepped out of the title scene. Same with Batista and most other top guys. Not really the same with Orton.

If HBK was willing to refuse title reigns then i don't see why Orton wouldn't. Orton might just be in the stage of his career where he doesn't want the pressure of being the constant centre-point of a show. It's been said that he's a locker room leader and somebody who helps out of the younger guys so i don't see it being that hard to believe.

It doesn't necessarily have to mean he's not given title runs anymore, just that he's not as relied on anymore. I guess you could call it "The Undertaker role" as well but it's less similar because it seems like Orton is remaining a full-timer, whilst in recent years Undertaker was rarely ever around so couldn't really put over that many guys


----------



## Johnny Sweatpants (Jun 11, 2010)

Losing streaks mean nothing. Daniel Bryan lost nearly every match since MITB and with 2 weeks of booking he's now poised to win the WHC title without the assistance of the briefcase (fingers crossed). Last year Mark Henry laid down for anyone who moved. I honestly thought I would never see him win another match. Look where he is now. Fear not, Orton will be back on his feet again and in the title picture by Wrestlemania. Then you can all go back to hating on him for burying the roster and balance will be restored to the Universe.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Dont matter if he is,hes still has done a marvelous job w/ getting guys over where Cena is still the same non jobbing no selling laughing/smiling geek he always has been. No wonder hes booed everywhere he goes,even in his hometown.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

Kirk angel said:


> People should stop comparing him to cena. orton can lose at times coz he doesnt draw shit but john cena is the top draw. If they have him lose like orton, the merch sales, ratings, buyrates everything gets affected.
> 
> if you dont understand the business, then shut the fuck up!!
> 
> ...


well atleast Orton isn't booed out of ever arena he steps in. WWE is geared to Kids, Cena is geared to kids. Ofcourse he's going to be to top fucking draw


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

hbk role? really?!


----------



## Gingermadman (Feb 2, 2010)

snuggiedawg said:


> well atleast Orton isn't booed out of ever arena he steps in. WWE is geared to Kids, Cena is geared to kids. Ofcourse he's going to be to top fucking draw


Except kids are the only people who support Orton.


----------



## Berin (Nov 29, 2011)

even on a losing stream he is making others more credible and in turn that will help him out in the future with bigger and better feuds. Booking is only using his notoriety in a smart direction to set the foundation for such feuds.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

Gingermadman said:


> Except kids are the only people who support Orton.


Actually nearly everyone(adults, women and kids) support Orton.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

CM12Punk said:


> Actually nearly everyone(adults, women and kids) support Orton.


Ignore him he imagines stuff to use it against Orton


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

Simply Flawless said:


> Ignore him he imagines stuff to use it against Orton


Wow talk about a blind hater.


----------



## Joshi (Mar 15, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



Simply Flawless said:


> I think this board should ban the word "bury" since everyone has no fucking clue what it means


This, bury is what happened to JoMo not every time a superstar loses a match.


----------



## SharpshooterSmith (May 7, 2011)

I have to admit that I wasn't too thrilled when Orton moved to SmackDown and immediately took the WHC from Christian. Not his fault, but I wasn't happy with the booking there. That having been said, Orton has had a stellar year. He put on some fantastic matches with Christian and helped elevate him a bit, he helped get Henry over for his title reign, he helped get Rhodes over, he's helping Barrett get over and just last night he contributed to helping Ziggler get over. Orton is doing a fantastic job on SmackDown and is a vital part of the show.

I don't see what anyone could have to complain about it when it comes to Orton this year.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Gingermadman's post should come with a 'Warning,Pure b.s." slogan posted before them. Obviously hes never seen Orton live or look at the crowds of kids,adults,teenagers(male and female) that have signs for him and cheer for him. Just utter stupidity from him as always.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Gingermadman's post should come with a 'Warning,Pure b.s." slogan posted before them. Obviously hes never seen Orton live or look at the crowds of kids,adults,teenagers(male and female) that have signs for him and cheer for him. Just utter stupidity from him as always.


 I think there are some people who may not be fans of orton but at least are honest and give credit to orton. the there are others that are jusr hating for the sake of it


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> I think there are some people who may not be fans of orton but at least are honest and give credit to orton. the there are others that are jusr hating for the sake of it


Ginger claims only one section of fans like Orton lol thats as fake as a David Cameron promise...i've seen men/women and kids wearing his shirts


----------



## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

Orton's been jobbing lately and I appreciate that a lot. I've been calling him SuperOrton throughout this whole year but since Summerslam, that has changed. I'm liking what he's been doing lately and of course, his matches are top notch. For him to put over Mark Henry, Cody Rhodes, and Dolph Ziggler, that is a true superstar.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope he doesn't job tonight as well. It doesn't matter much cause he has too much credibility to ever be buried but jobbing every week is just not gonna help in any way. I honestly, don't even remember the last time he won a match. Or it was those two Cody Rhodes matches at Vengeance and the Street Fight, which were mainly used to end Cody's old character. He should win whatever match he has in TLC and they really need to find a proper feud for him because right now he's just having random matches with Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler back and forth. Losing more frequently than winning. With the way he's been booked now, I wouldn't mind him winning the Rumble again to make Wrestlemania 28 a Triple Threat with Daniel Bryan and Mark Henry (if they will go that route).


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Why is this orton jobbing even a big deal? 

Orton only became the top star by default when the rest of the main eventers retired. He doesnt draw shit, he should have been jobbing a lot more even in the past. 

I think the christian/orton feud has created a false impression that orton is actually worth a shit. He is not!!


----------



## Sceptic (Apr 10, 2010)

SharpshooterSmith said:


> I have to admit that I wasn't too thrilled when Orton moved to SmackDown and immediately took the WHC from Christian. Not his fault, but I wasn't happy with the booking there. That having been said, Orton has had a stellar year. He put on some fantastic matches with Christian and helped elevate him a bit, he helped get Henry over for his title reign, he helped get Rhodes over, he's helping Barrett get over and just last night he contributed to helping Ziggler get over. Orton is doing a fantastic job on SmackDown and is a vital part of the show.
> 
> I don't see what anyone could have to complain about it when it comes to Orton this year.


Got to agree with this. Orton's done a damned fine job this year.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> they really need to find a proper feud for him because right now he's just having random matches with Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler back and forth.


Creative need to start using him and giving him feuds because he's just floating around he's just there


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Creative need to start using him and giving him feuds because he's just floating around he's just there


Punk is more important to WWE than orton at this point.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

Kirk angel said:


> Punk is more important to WWE than orton at this point.


uh what does punk even have to do with this, op was just stating a fact Orton's just floating around at this point fighting random ass wrestlers

and atleast Orton didn't change his gimmick turning from a heel like cmpunk did. One week he went from I hate you, to I love you and want whats right for all of you fucking suck up


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

snuggiedawg said:


> uh what does punk even have to do with this, op was just stating a fact Orton's just floating around at this point fighting random ass wrestlers
> 
> and atleast Orton didn't change his gimmick turning from a heel like cmpunk did. One week he went from I hate you, to I love you and want whats right for all of you fucking suck up


PUnk is ten times more talented than orton & he has effectively replaced orton for the top spot.

Go cry to your mommy.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

Kirk angel said:


> PUnk is ten times more talented than orton & he has effectively replaced orton for the top spot.
> 
> Go cry to your mommy.


truth hurts un buddy,now go watch roh smark


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

He cant,I think ROH comes on past his bedtime.


----------



## TheVenomousViper (Nov 24, 2011)

Kirk angel said:


> PUnk is ten times more talented than orton & he has effectively replaced orton for the top spot.
> 
> Go cry to your mommy.


You need to watch what you so about Randy Orton brah or you will get stung by none other than me, the notorious and venomous viper... the largest and most dangerous of all snakes in it's natural habitat!!!












































You wanna get stung? Test me!!! GO ON TEST MOI!


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Orton buried Otunga!! 

Fucking prick.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

He gave Otunga more offesne on him that he or anyone else should ever have to get from him. the guy couldnt even time his backwards jump over the top rope right on the clothesline the first minute of the match.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

Kirk angel said:


> Orton buried Otunga!!
> 
> Fucking prick.


fpalmfpalmfpalm


----------



## PacoAwesome (Jun 20, 2011)

Orton is not getting treated like shit, he is utting over younger talent because he likes to work with the younger guys. He said it himself in a recent interview that he current;y likes working with Rhodes and Barrett. Orton doesn't need the WHC and knows Mark Henry is doing wonders with his current title run. Orton is doing what few men at his position would do and that is sacrifice his "Top Guy Ego" and put over the younger talent. I know another top guy that should take notes from Orton.


----------



## rainbows (Nov 29, 2011)

*Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

this is why he lost to wade barrett lost in survivor series and lost to dolph ziggler last monday night raw and also cody rodhes


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

Although Ziggler's win over Orton wasn't clean, it's still great to see Orton is willing to put Superstars, young & OLD over. I mean, he did wonders to Henry's career by letting him beat Orton at NoC cleanly for the WHC. I mean, I may not be a Mark Henry "mark," but Randy Orton really helped Mark Henry to become a serious main eventer over on Smackdown. 

Also, Cody Rhodes may have not won any of his matches against Orton, in my opinion his feud with Orton was able to really show everyone what Cody had to offer. Not only this, but it got rid of his mask, which should of been shelved at least three months ago. Now Cody is feuding with Booker T, and his new attitude is awesome, which some credit can go to Randy Orton.

Recently, he has put Wade Barrett over twice, in two big match situations. Wade Barrett's career, after a year, has been put back on the map thanks to Randy Orton. 

So yeah, some may have not been "clean wins," but Orton is putting younger talent over, which is awesome to see. And it's different seeing Orton in the mid-card, instead of being in the main event or title picture which is refreshing to see.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

yep and i appreciate that


----------



## Pop Tatari (May 27, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

I think he is which is what he should be doing and i respect that shame cena cannot do that!


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Pop Tatari said:


> I think he is which is what he should be doing and i respect that *shame cena cannot do that!*


Sorry, what?

John Cena was able to make Edge a serious main eventer in early 2006, he has let Orton cleanly pin him on numerous occasions, he put over The Miz at the main event of Wrestlemania, he put CM Punk over not once, but twice (I don't give a shit if it was clean or not, it put Punk on the map as a face), Alberto beat Cena in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH (Again, I don't care if Miz/Truth interfered, he got back up), and recently he put Awesome Truth over in a tag team match on Raw, hell he even put Carlito over a few times! I can think of a lot more, but Cena has had his fair share of elevating peoples careers, so think the next time you say something.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

Since When did orton become the CEO of WWE?

Why do people think orton losing is a big fucking deal? Orton is not cena, he doesnt draw shit. The only reason he is even a top star is coz he is Vince's golden boy.


----------



## rainbows (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



ChainGang Saluter said:


> Sorry, what?
> 
> John Cena was able to make Edge a serious main eventer in early 2006, he has let Orton cleanly pin him on numerous occasions, he put over The Miz at the main event of Wrestlemania, he put CM Punk over not once, but twice (I don't give a shit if it was clean or not, it put Punk on the map as a face), Alberto beat Cena in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH (Again, I don't care if Miz/Truth interfered, he got back up), and recently he put Awesome Truth over in a tag team match on Raw, hell he even put Carlito over a few times! I can think of a lot more, but Cena has had his fair share of elevating peoples careers, so think the next time you say something.


this pretty much to who thinks cena won't put people over


----------



## Trifektah (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



ChainGang Saluter said:


> Sorry, what?
> 
> John Cena was able to make Edge a serious main eventer in early 2006, he has let Orton cleanly pin him on numerous occasions, he put over The Miz at the main event of Wrestlemania, he put CM Punk over not once, but twice (I don't give a shit if it was clean or not, it put Punk on the map as a face), Alberto beat Cena in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH (Again, I don't care if Miz/Truth interfered, he got back up), and recently he put Awesome Truth over in a tag team match on Raw, hell he even put Carlito over a few times! I can think of a lot more, but Cena has had his fair share of elevating peoples careers, so think the next time you say something.


Get out of here. Your examples are so completely different than the stuff Orton has been doing.

Orton lost to Barrett and Henry clean as a sheet. 

vs.

Edge beat Cena via MiTB cash in after an elimination chamber match (THREE WEEKS later he would lose the title back to Cena)
Punk beat Cena via two of the most overbooked schmozfests in history
Orton was already "put over" as a WHC seven months before Cena won the WWE Title with a clean win over Benoit.
Carlito beat Cena for the US Title after hitting him with a chain.

That's not putting people over. That's switching titles without hurting Cena's credibility and doing nothing for the other wrestler.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Pop Tatari said:


> I think he is which is what he should be doing and i respect that shame cena cannot do that!


Just this year: Miz, CM Punk twice (in fact, has Cena ever beaten Punk this year?) and Alberto Del Rio




now thats taken cared off, on to the thread:

Randy Orton has actually been pushing people too. He lost to Mark Henry clean and gave up the title, his team lost at Survivor Series and he recently lost to Dolph on smackdown.

He beat Cody Rhodes but then again, you can't expect Orton to keep jobbing.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Trifektah said:


> Get out of here. Your examples are so completely different than the stuff Orton has been doing.
> 
> Orton lost to Barrett and Henry clean as a sheet.
> 
> ...



Okay for starters, I am not dissing Orton's current "putting over work" but, the Smackdown main event, didn't Barrett win by racking Orton in the eyes? And at Survivor Series, didn't Cody Rhodes distract Orton for Barrett to secure the win? Clean, I think not.

As for Edge, sure, his wins over Cena may not have been "completely clean," but you continue to miss the point. Beating Cena does miracles for your career. Edge became a serious player once he beat Cena for the WWE title. Same with Punk. Sure, they weren't "clean" in your books, but really, in the end, it put CM Punk over, whether you like it or not. *THIS THEN MEANS JOHN CENA HAS SUCCESSFULLY PUT PEOPLE OVER IN THE PAST!*

I hate people throwing around the words it has to be a clean win to put someone over, cause that is utter bullshit. Shawn Michaels didn't put Stone Cold over cleanly at Wrestlemania 14, yet he became one of the biggest wrestlers of all time due to that match...


----------



## Trifektah (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



LarryCoon said:


> Just this year: Miz, CM Punk twice (in fact, has Cena ever beaten Punk this year?) and Alberto Del Rio
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At what point did he put over the Miz? When he got Rock Bottom'd? When he won back the title in a cage match? Or how about the Superman comeback when he essentially chased down the Miz and beat him in five seconds in the I Quit match? I'm not seeing it.

When did he put over Del Rio? When Del Rio locked him out of a cage to screw him out of the title? When R Truth and the Miz came down and beat the crap out of Cena in a last man standing match? Shit, ADR didn't even get to pin or submit Cena. I'm not seeing it.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Trifektah said:


> At what point did he put over the Miz? When he got Rock Bottom'd? When he won back the title in a cage match? Or how about the Superman comeback when he essentially chased down the Miz and beat him in five seconds in the I Quit match? I'm not seeing it.
> 
> When did he put over Del Rio? When Del Rio locked him out of a cage to screw him out of the title? When R Truth and the Miz came down and beat the crap out of Cena in a last man standing match? Shit, ADR didn't even get to pin or submit Cena. I'm not seeing it.


He put Miz over when Miz pinned John Cena to the mat, 1 2 3. When you retain a title at the biggest PPV of the year, against the face of the company, a career is elevated, no matter how it happens. If you want to thank anyone for "burying" Miz at Mania, blame The Rock, he is the one who took that momentous win away from him after giving him a Peoples Elbow. 

Cena put Alberto over when Del Rio hit Cena square in the face with the WWE title to win. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure Miz/Truth's bashing didn't keep Cena on the ground for the count of 10, it was Alberto hitting Cena with the title. Whether it was clean or not, it does not matter, it was a no DQ match for christ sakes. In the WWE (kayfabe wise), a win is a win. And really, would you really look back on that match and remember Alberto winning or Miz/Truth merely interfering? If I looked back, I would know what I would remember, Alberto retaining the title against JOHN CENA... Clean wins don't count for shit and stop trying to prove that they do, because if anything, if you look back in history, non-clean wins have put over more wrestlers than anything.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Trifektah said:


> At what point did he put over the Miz? When he got Rock Bottom'd? When he won back the title in a cage match? Or how about the Superman comeback when he essentially chased down the Miz and beat him in five seconds in the I Quit match? I'm not seeing it.
> 
> When did he put over Del Rio? When Del Rio locked him out of a cage to screw him out of the title? When R Truth and the Miz came down and beat the crap out of Cena in a last man standing match? Shit, ADR didn't even get to pin or submit Cena. I'm not seeing it.


I was referring to Wrestlemania when Cena got Rock bottomed. Its not a clean pin, but they overbook a lot of stuff nowadays and they wanted the Rock to be involved in the finish of wrestlemania. The next few PPVs are a different story though.

As for Del Rio, I was actually referring to the last man standing match at Vengeance in which Del Rio won the title clean since it was no disqualification.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

PacoAwesome said:


> Orton is not getting treated like shit, he is utting over younger talent because he likes to work with the younger guys. He said it himself in a recent interview that he current;y likes working with Rhodes and Barrett. Orton doesn't need the WHC and knows Mark Henry is doing wonders with his current title run. Orton is doing what few men at his position would do and that is sacrifice his "Top Guy Ego" and put over the younger talent. *I know another top guy that should take notes from Orton.*


fpalmfpalmfpalm

Orton =/= cena. 
Orton is not even a draw & he became a top guy only by default.

People just dont get it.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Trifektah said:


> At what point did he put over the Miz? When he got Rock Bottom'd? When he won back the title in a cage match? Or how about the Superman comeback when he essentially chased down the Miz and beat him in five seconds in the I Quit match? I'm not seeing it.
> 
> When did he put over Del Rio? When Del Rio locked him out of a cage to screw him out of the title? When R Truth and the Miz came down and beat the crap out of Cena in a last man standing match? Shit, ADR didn't even get to pin or submit Cena. I'm not seeing it.


Look at it this way,

Compare The Miz before his WM feud & after. 
Compare R Truth before his Feud with cena & after.

CM punk before MITB & after. 

Simple! Cena doesnt have to lose to put someone over. Same goes for Triple h & undertaker. A feud culminating with a match with these guys is enough to establish yourself with the fans.

People (casual fans) wont care about Dolph Vs Swagger match or matches even if it is a ***** match but put him in a match with Cena or in a segment with HHH, people will pay attention. 

you are either underestimating Cena's starpower or you dont understand the business at all.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Kirk angel said:


> Look at it this way,
> 
> Compare The Miz before his WM feud & after.
> Compare R Truth before his Feud with cena & after.
> ...


^ Exactly this. Hopefully he can stop being ignorant and understand how the food chain works...


----------



## SinJackal (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



ChainGang Saluter said:


> Sorry, what?
> 
> John Cena was able to make Edge a serious main eventer in early 2006, he has let Orton cleanly pin him on numerous occasions, he put over The Miz at the main event of Wrestlemania, he put CM Punk over not once, but twice (I don't give a shit if it was clean or not, it put Punk on the map as a face), Alberto beat Cena in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH (Again, I don't care if Miz/Truth interfered, he got back up), and recently he put Awesome Truth over in a tag team match on Raw, hell he even put Carlito over a few times! I can think of a lot more, but Cena has had his fair share of elevating peoples careers, so think the next time you say something.


Um. . .Orton was already big before beating Cena, hence why he was allowed to beat Cena in the first place. Cena did help him a little though, but don't act like it made his career, rofl. Orton was popular as hell leading up to that. He had been popular for years.

Cena didn't "put over" Miz either, Cena got screwed out of the match due to The Rock's direct inteference which doesn't count as putting someone over. It was about as unclean a win as you could possibly get, which kept Cena's character over Miz's.

Most of your examples are VERY unclean examples, which don't help those characters one bit. If they get dominated in the match, then get outside help and cheat to win, the win does nothing to help them whatsoever. It just makes them look like a wuss who is inevitably going to lose to Cena one, two, or three times in a row to lose the fued.

The only people Cena has -actually- put over the last. . .2 years? I can't even remember the last person Cena put over before Orton a long time ago. Anyway, those people are: Randy Orton, CM Punk. That's it.

Losing a match uncleanly doesn't help anything. It serves no purpose but to drop a belt/match to keep a fued going despite us knowing the obvious outcome (that Cena will win) and keeping Cena's character over the guy he lost to so the little jimmies don't cry to daddy that their hero lost to Miz.


----------



## ManicPowerBomb (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

To answer the question of this post, yes I think he's doing a good job for the company in general. He's not trying to be a Cena or comparing himself to anyone like that. He knows his star power as a wrestler whether you like him or not he gets reactions either heel or face. Knowing this, yeah lately he's shown he can be beaten and the guys who he is letting him lose are obviously the ones the company is trying to push. Clean or not he's letting them beat him. Henry twice in 2 ppv's in a row! So yeah he's doing good and knows how to play his part well. Can't compare him to Cena because they are at different ends of the spectrum in the WWE "Universe."


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



SinJackal said:


> Um. . .Orton was already big before beating Cena, hence why he was allowed to beat Cena in the first place. Cena did help him a little though, but don't act like it made his career, rofl. Orton was popular as hell leading up to that. He had been popular for years.
> 
> Cena didn't "put over" Miz either, Cena got screwed out of the match due to The Rock's direct inteference which doesn't count as putting someone over. It was about as unclean a win as you could possibly get, which kept Cena's character over Miz's.
> 
> ...


What do you expect from the top babyface star? Lose clean here and there? How many times did babyface Stone Cold Steve Austin lose during his entire run? Or what about Hogan? He's still the biggest draw, putting other people over isn't his priority.


Give credit to Cena, he never buried two wrestling companies in 3 minutes like what Stone Cold did during the start of the Invasion angle when he came into the ring and single handedly destroyed ECW and WCW. 


What you should be wondering about is how superman lost to CM Punk twice this year, never got any heat back and has never beaten Punk yet this year after his return. If thats not bending your knees and kissing his feet to put someone over, I don't know what is.


----------



## Romanista (Jul 13, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

Orton always push people over, included Kofi if he didn't miscue in that match.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



SinJackal said:


> Um. . .Orton was already big before beating Cena, hence why he was allowed to beat Cena in the first place. Cena did help him a little though, but don't act like it made his career, rofl. Orton was popular as hell leading up to that. He had been popular for years.
> 
> Cena didn't "put over" Miz either, Cena got screwed out of the match due to The Rock's direct inteference which doesn't count as putting someone over. It was about as unclean a win as you could possibly get, which kept Cena's character over Miz's.
> 
> ...


Okay, so do you know wrestling is fake, or haven't your parents told you yet? Do you know why there is an E at the end of the WWE? I'll tell you why, ENTERTAINMENT! WWE is entertainment. For fuck sake, if every match ended cleanly to put someone over, I would stop watching the product. Unclean wins add chaos, make storylines interesting, and adds surprise. John Cena put The Miz over, and if anything, he did it way before Mania. The Bash 2009, although Cena squashed Miz, Miz has never looked back on his career. Compare Miz before his feud with Cena in 09 to now? John technically put Miz over, without Miz even having to beat him, that's how good Cena is. At Mania, it was just the icing of the cake. The Rock Rock Bottoming Cena just added the OMG factor, but in the end, who pinned Cena for the WWE title at Mania. Oh yeah, The Miz! The Miz even refers to it as one of his greatest moments in the WWE, why? Not because it was a wrestling sounded match, it's because HE BEAT JOHN CENA, whether it was clean or not. 

And you say Cena's opponents get dominated, and get an unclean win? LOL. Have you ever watched a Cena match, let alone a basic Heel vs. Babyface match up? Pretty sure a heel dominates a match, then a face comes back from the dead, where the winner is decided from there. It does not matter if a win is clean or not, John Cena has put people over. Compare Edge's career from his early stages till he beat Cena for the WWE title in 06'. Edge's career elevated the day he beat Cena. And you know what, I don't recall people caring about whether it was a clean win or not, I remember people celebrating for after so long, Edge won the title. WWE isn't UFC or Boxing, not every win has to be clean for someone to go over. You re-read those matches I mentioned before and compare them to what there career was before they got a, as you say "unclean win" over Cena. It elevated there career and made them into legit stars. Like I said, WWE is an entertainment product, if everything was clean, there would be no storyline to follow. And sorry, that's half the reason why I watch the WWE, for complication for that to occur.

And also, might I add, you say unclean wins, including the ones over Cena serves no purpose to drop a belt/match to keep a fued going despite us knowing the obvious outcome (that Cena will win), yet Alberto beat Cena at Vengance, and it was CM Punk that took the belt off Alberto, not Cena. Just because it may have happened in the past, doesn't mean it is going to happen all the time...


*EDIT:* Also, I would like to add, how would a clean win benefit a heel anyways? Like legit, a heel is meant to be a coward, who talks shit and does whatever it takes to get a win. If heels continue to get clean wins over Cena, doesn't that defeat the original purpose of a heel?


----------



## Evolution (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*

Merged.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

*Re: Do you think randy orton finally want to push other guys ?*



Evolution said:


> Merged.


Haha I was wondering where it all went. Makes sense why you moved it here though


----------



## Hulkamania4Uandme (Nov 20, 2011)

Orton is a fkn champion, Helping young guys get over. Makes me laugh when people complain wrestlers dont job and when they do they complain to.

He'd tell people bitching about him to get fucked to you face and prob kick your head off.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Who cares who put who over...


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Theres a difference Cena marks between Orton putting guys over and Cena doing it. Orton puts guys over CLEAN where Cena hasnt jobbed CLEAN in who knows how long? Cena made Punk??? Yeah,thats why the fans were chanting Punk's name way more than Cena's in their 2 PPV matches this year. Punk was more over as a face(even though he was a heel) in the matches than Cena was.

And Orton made Miz before Cena did when he lost the WWE title to him when he cashed in his MITB on him and jobbed to him in rematches the next few months after. And Cena made EDGE???LOL.Edge was tons over before their fued in '06 and sure didnt need Cena's help.And did Cena "make" Miz at Extreme Rules this year when he no sold a 20 minute beatdown by him and Riley and killing them 2 minutes later like nothing even happened to him? Is that putting guys over?

Did he help Truth when he buried him at Capitol Punishment? Until Cena does CLEAN jobs he's nowhere near Orton when it comes to doing whats right for business and not worrying about his spot like Cena does.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

why do people act as if Orton's a old washed up sponge, hes younger than all the guys he lost to this year, so why put them over, mainly thinking of mark, hes on his way out in a year or two while Orton still has another 10 years at the least.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

snuggiedawg said:


> why do people act as if Orton's a old washed up sponge, hes younger than all the guys he lost to this year, so why put them over, mainly thinking of mark, hes on his way out in a year or two while Orton still has another 10 years at the least.


People act like Orton's a week away from being retired:lmao


----------



## Astitude (Oct 22, 2011)

Orton is a fucking bitch. He completely destroyed Kofi's future & got Kennedy fired for no reason. 

No fan should ever respect orton for all that politicking he done backstage.

I think the reason he is jobbing now is coz vince has realised this guy isnt worth a shit & that orton can never be the face of the company no matter how much they push him.

I would be glad if this bitch got released.

WE have CM PUNK now anyway.


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

Astitude said:


> Orton is a fucking bitch. He completely destroyed Kofi's future & got Kennedy fired for no reason.
> 
> No fan should ever respect orton for all that politicking he done backstage.
> 
> ...


Orton got kennedy fired, didn't know Orton had power to do that. I always thought that was Vince McMahon but guess I was wrong. Also Orton fucking ruined Kofi's push. You mean the guy that lost to Kofi in 5 seconds at survior series, that guy. Kofis pushed stopped at because wrestlemania time was around the corner.

Let me ask you this IF Orton was feuding with Wade last year and his push stopped because he hurt him at a houseshow, would you blame Orton. Hell fucking yes... But Cena was and Wade did hurt him at a houseshow and his push stopped. Did Cena ever get blamed once fucking no, but if It was Orton this would just be another reason to hate the guy.

Until you hate on Orton like that show me a fucking crystal ball on proof of this shit instead of basing it off the fucking internet


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Theres a difference Cena marks between Orton putting guys over and Cena doing it. Orton puts guys over CLEAN where Cena hasnt jobbed CLEAN in who knows how long? Cena made Punk??? Yeah,thats why the fans were chanting Punk's name way more than Cena's in their 2 PPV matches this year. Punk was more over as a face(even though he was a heel) in the matches than Cena was.
> Cena made EDGE???LOL.Edge was tons over before their fued in '06 and sure didnt need Cena's help.


Edge vs Cena put both of them more over as a heel and face, respectively. You're lying to yourself if you think otherwise, and if you think Cena didn't help Edge break in his main event shoes. CM Punk likewise. He got himself over with his promo, but beating Cena is what solidified him. 



snuggiedawg said:


> why do people act as if Orton's a old washed up sponge, hes younger than all the guys he lost to this year, so why put them over, mainly thinking of mark, hes on his way out in a year or two while Orton still has another 10 years at the least.


Because what he's accomplished, at his age, is insane to the point of criminality. Put Orton's resume on without a name, and it reads like someone that's in the evening of their career or already retired. And a _great_ career at that. Keeping him in the main event/championship picture will cause him to become stale beyond belief, especially as we're probably looking at another ten/fifteen years of him. He's got so long left, as well as an already established career, that they can afford to move him up and down the card as needed. He's the only one that has this luxury, another championship feud and victory and people will forget he ever got pinned by the likes of Barrett.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Well Orton has stated many times when he's 40 that he's gonna retire he doesnt want to be in his 50's half crippled wrestling in high school gyms.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Well Orton has stated many times when he's 40 that he's gonna retire he doesnt want to be in his 50's half crippled wrestling in high school gyms.


still 8 to 9 years to go
and he is already 9nine time champ and already won the royal rumble


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Well Orton has stated many times when he's 40 that he's gonna retire he doesnt want to be in his 50's half crippled wrestling in high school gyms.


That's smart. He's done it all. What would he achieve after 40? I don't blame him at all. I don't see him settling into a manager/commentator role after retirement, so there's no need to push it. Let him enjoy retirement.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Orton probably wont fully step away he mightdo what Foley does still show up now and then


----------



## Terry Gyimah (Feb 21, 2011)

Orton is the greatest wrestler in the world, not Punk


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Terry Gyimah said:


> Orton is the greatest wrestler in the world, not Punk


they both ARE NOT the best WRESTLERS in the world


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

I thought everyone would be happy with what Orton is doing right now. He doesn't need to be in the main even he already is considered one of the top stars in the wwe he is helping out and giving the midcarders a push


----------



## the modern myth (Nov 11, 2006)

John Cena never loses a match, people complain. 
Randy Orton loses a couple of matches, people complain.










Plus, the look on this kids face is amazing. She looks like she wants to fucking murder every single person in that arena. They should put the title on her! She's the most convincing and charasmatic performer since Jake Roberts.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

the modern myth said:


> John Cena never loses a match, people complain.
> Randy Orton loses a couple of matches, people complain.
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao

Pre teen Orton fangirls are scary as fuck


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

You seem to forget greendayedgehead that before the Cena feud Edge also feuded w/ Orton in '04 and that put Edge on the map way before his feud w/ Cena did and they didnt need gimmick matches like the Cena-Edge matches to do it.Orton and Edge tore the houses down and both guys got more over than either guy was and Orton was one of the most hated heels going back then while Edge was on the cusp of the top face guys and after that feud he got there.

No gimmick ladder matches or anything,just a feud over the IC title. And how did Cena put over Punk by not even doing one clean job to him? How does that booking you do work where to get a guy over you have him win on screwjobs only? You book for TNA or something? You really Vince Russo?

And as a side note,you know whats best about all these jobs Orton's been doing? In WWE land that always means something big will be coming Orton's way soon(as a "reward")so I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

mst3rulz said:


> You seem to forget greendayedgehead that before the Cena feud Edge also feuded w/ Orton in '04 and that put Edge on the map way before his feud w/ Cena did and they didnt need gimmick matches like the Cena-Edge matches to do it.Orton and Edge tore the houses down and both guys got more over than either guy was and Orton was one of the most hated heels going back then while Edge was on the cusp of the top face guys and after that feud he got there.
> 
> No gimmick ladder matches or anything,just a feud over the IC title. And how did Cena put over Punk by not even doing one clean job to him? How does that booking you do work where to get a guy over you have him win on screwjobs only? You book for TNA or something? You really Vince Russo?
> 
> And as a side note,you know whats best about all these jobs Orton's been doing? In WWE land that always means something big will be coming Orton's way soon(as a "reward")so I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.


Ignorance.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

It's pretty simple to comprehend. Orton is at best a moderate draw. Therefore, by having him put over a bunch of younger guys, out of which one hopes to cull at least a couple of significant stars, you lose little while potentially gaining a great deal for the future. WWE tried the "Orton Über Alles" experiment from the end of April through the entirety of summer and they had some of the worst houses for TV tapings since the New Generation Era with chronically tepid ratings. He's just not big enough to anchor your whole brand around, particularly when that brand is already criminally depleted of star power. 

Orton _is_ fully and completely secure and established. The losses, all of which, minus the Henry examples (which achieved their purpose), have involved some form of cheating or skulduggery, don't damage him but they do help others. However, the key point is that WWE should logically be more willing to test the proposition that Orton is beyond damaging in this regard than they would be with a guy like Cena, Triple H or The Undertaker. He's just not the drawing powerhouse that those aforementioned names are. After 8+ years of largely pouring into the single investment, it's time to pull out what one can from the investment in terms of helping ot usher in the new generation of stars.


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.


Lets hope he learns how to point at the Mania sign properly this time:lmao


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> In WWE land that always means something big will be coming Orton's way soon(as a "reward")so I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.


Why would Orton win the Royal Rumble? He has an easy entry into the title scene. They'll just book him as the #1 contender or put him in a triple threat and there he is. It's not like he's fallen drastically down the card by a few loses.

A Royal Rumble win should go to someone who has a much harder access to the title scene. Ziggler, Sheamus, and Barrett are the men to look for as the winner.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Not that Meltzer is always right but hes reported many times the past few weeks that something big will happen to him as a 'reward" for doing these jobs(as always happens in WWE for anyone who has done this,(unless its Cena who dont do jobs to get others over but thats another subject)and he predicted it should be a Rumble win since its in his "hometown" this year.

And to those who may complain about this if its happens,just remember,Austin has won 3 in a span of 5 years and Hogan and Michals have each won 2 in a row before.

And to dudeme13,thanks for adding so much to this discussion. Brilliant way to back up what you say.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

It's nice that he's doing all of these jobs to put over talent but usually there isn't a big reward for it. It's just part of being a wrestler. I'm not sure why Orton would be any different. Especially since he doesn't need a big reward to go back to the title scene.


----------



## Azuran (Feb 17, 2009)

Astitude said:


> Orton is a fucking bitch. He completely destroyed Kofi's future & got Kennedy fired for no reason.
> 
> No fan should ever respect orton for all that politicking he done backstage.
> 
> ...


Kofi and Kennedy completely suck. Good thing Orton destroyed their asses. Just goes to show how much he actually cares about the integrity of the business. Punk is overrated as hell too. I will start taking his jobber ass seriously when he actually has a good match without getting carried to hell and back.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

If youve seen Kennedy the past few months on TNA sleepwalk through his matches you'd see he was no big loss. And Kofi has been,will be and forever will be a mid carder for life no matter what as long as Vince is around.


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

And captain,its always been that way in WWE. If a top guy loses for a while(unless its as punishmeant for something )Vince always 'rewards" that person w/ something big.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

mst3rulz said:


> And to dudeme13,thanks for adding so much to this discussion. Brilliant way to back up what you say.


WTF do you want me to respond, if you are going to be so goddamn ignorant?


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

So stating the truth is ignorant?? O.K.


----------



## ChainGang Saluter (Sep 7, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Lets hope he learns how to point at the Mania sign properly this time:lmao


Why would Orton need another Rumble win? Like seriously, that would be the biggest waste of time ever. I would much prefer to see someone like Dlph Ziggler or Cody Rhodes win the Rumble, bright stars that will actually have a successful run within the main event picture, unlike Alberto's first run with the ball.


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## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

dudeme13 said:


> WTF do you want me to respond, if you are going to be so goddamn ignorant?


I've tried using logic, it doesn't work on mst3rulz. Maybe I should try your method instead.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

ChainGang Saluter said:


> Why would Orton need another Rumble win? Like seriously, that would be the biggest waste of time ever. I would much prefer to see someone like Dlph Ziggler or Cody Rhodes win the Rumble, bright stars that will actually have a successful run within the main event picture, unlike Alberto's first run with the ball.


 I kind of agree since i think guys should have just one rumble win in order to elevate more guys. However I would like orton to face henry and win only because i want to see orton vs bryan and that will help bryan get over big by beating a big star in a classic match. Plus i think orton deserves a main event spot by helping many guys this year and having great matches


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Let me know starship the times you used logic and I'll get back to you. You and dudeme13 said nothing to back up your comments about what I said about on the last page. All dude said was 'ignorant." Wow.And like I said,whats wrong with Orton winning The Rumble(which again like I said before,its nowhere near official its gonna happen because plans change in WWE daily)? 

Austin once won 3 in a 5 year span and Hogan and HBK each have won back to back Rumbles also. The past 6 Rumbles have been won by ADR,Edge,Orton,Cena,Taker and Mysterio.Is that putting over any new guys? Maybe we'll end up Orton v Bryan at Mania? Of course Im sure people will complain about that because God forbid we might get a great match but if our favorites arent in it who cares right?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Wow.And like I said,whats wrong with Orton winning The Rumble(which again like I said before,its nowhere near official its gonna happen because plans change in WWE daily)?


Because wrestlers like Sheamus, Barrett, and Ziggler need to get to a title level. Without it, it's very hard to book them there. There's multiple blocks and obstacles. Orton has a clear path whenever Vince feels like booking him. He doesn't need it. Orton can get it, but there are much better booking options that will shake up the title picture. Isn't that what Royal Rumble is supposed to be about?


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

mst3rulz said:


> Let me know starship the times you used logic and I'll get back to you. You and dudeme13 said nothing to back up your comments about what I said about on the last page. All dude said was 'ignorant." Wow.And like I said,whats wrong with Orton winning The Rumble(which again like I said before,its nowhere near official its gonna happen because plans change in WWE daily)?
> 
> Austin once won 3 in a 5 year span and Hogan and HBK each have won back to back Rumbles also. The past 6 Rumbles have been won by ADR,Edge,Orton,Cena,Taker and Mysterio.Is that putting over any new guys? Maybe we'll end up Orton v Bryan at Mania? Of course Im sure people will complain about that because God forbid we might get a great match but if our favorites arent in it who cares right?


What's wrong with Orton winning the Rumble? He doesn't need it. He's established enough as a main-eventer such that a Rumble win would not benefit him as much as it would benefit a current upper-midcarder (Barrett, Rhodes, Ziggler, Miz) It's just like Cena's case (if he weren't facing the Rock). Sure the past 6 rumbles only put over a single new guy in ADR but that's no reason to continue the trend.

I've used logic pretty much every single time I replied to you. I haven't even argued against you in this thread before this post, so of course I said nothing.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

why should orton win the rumble? 
austin won it three times yes but how much world championships does he have and how much does orton have? 
edge got back and won the rumble going to smackdown and carry the brand which he did? he had a feud with jericho and it was ok 
taker needed the rumble win because he never won it before 
hbk= austins case 
hogan is hogan 
ADR won it to get over but he failed to 
mysterio deserved it 
cena had never won it before too

orton already has a rumble and 9 titles 
i dont think its a problem for him to get into the title picture without the rumble


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## TJC93 (Nov 25, 2011)

Orton is the most boring superstar


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Coming from someone with a avatar of the One Man Botchamania video himself that says a lot from you. And what were the reasons for Austin winning 3 of of 5 Rumbles #1peep? Or Hogan and HBK winning 2 in a row each? And like I said,you can list all the 'reasons" those guys won it its still NOT getting any NEW guys over having them win it which is what everyone says the Rumble is to do.

The one 'new" guy to have won one recently is ADR and that was last year. Besides him have they made any "new" guys in the Rumble the past 7 years? No. So if Orton does win it(which again is far from 100% since its probably already been changed 100 times since Meltzer said it)is it any different from recent past winners? No. Did Austin and HBK or Hogan need to win the Rumbles when they did? Were they already not over enough or something?

And just because the Rumble is is Orton's hometown next year dont mean he'll win it either. Look at the MITB match he was in in 2010 when Miz beat him just when he was about to get the case. Where was that held in? Oh yeah,St Louis.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Coming from someone with a avatar of the One Man Botchamania video himself that says a lot from you. And what were the reasons for Austin winning 3 of of 5 Rumbles #1peep? Or Hogan and HBK winning 2 in a row each? And like I said,you can list all the 'reasons" those guys won it its still NOT getting any NEW guys over having them win it which is what everyone says the Rumble is to do.
> 
> The one 'new" guy to have won one recently is ADR and that was last year. Besides him have they made any "new" guys in the Rumble the past 7 years? No. So if Orton does win it(which again is far from 100% since its probably already been changed 100 times since Meltzer said it)is it any different from recent past winners? No. Did Austin and HBK or Hogan need to win the Rumbles when they did? Were they already not over enough or something?
> 
> And just because the Rumble is is Orton's hometown next year dont mean he'll win it either. Look at the MITB match he was in in 2010 when Miz beat him just when he was about to get the case. Where was that held in? Oh yeah,St Louis.



again 
how many titles do austin and hbk have? orton alone has as much world titles as both of them together
back then it wasnt easy to get a title match and that was one of the few ways to book them into title matches 
back then more than 60% of the roster was over and in the last few years you say no one new won the rumble? well why not start doing it now

and i dont understand how you can possibly compare austin with orton


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Sheamus has been WWE champ twice he's been built up already


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## Tacticalpanic (Sep 7, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Coming from someone with a avatar of the One Man Botchamania video himself that says a lot from you. And what were the reasons for Austin winning 3 of of 5 Rumbles #1peep? Or Hogan and HBK winning 2 in a row each? And like I said,you can list all the 'reasons" those guys won it its still NOT getting any NEW guys over having them win it which is what everyone says the Rumble is to do.
> 
> The one 'new" guy to have won one recently is ADR and that was last year. Besides him have they made any "new" guys in the Rumble the past 7 years? No. So if Orton does win it(which again is far from 100% since its probably already been changed 100 times since Meltzer said it)is it any different from recent past winners? No. Did Austin and HBK or Hogan need to win the Rumbles when they did? Were they already not over enough or something?
> 
> And just because the Rumble is is Orton's hometown next year dont mean he'll win it either. Look at the MITB match he was in in 2010 when Miz beat him just when he was about to get the case. Where was that held in? Oh yeah,St Louis.


back then younger guys didint get hot shoted the title just to get them over , they used King of the ring to get up and coming guys over , the WWF title was purely for the best guys in the company.

to get a wwe title shot in the 90's you allready had to be over. for the wrestlemania event , you had to be the number 1 or 2 guy.

the constant hot shoting of younger guys that may or may not even make it in the main event is the reson the wwe titles prestige is so watered down.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Sheamus has been WWE champ twice he's been built up already


He's been built up twice but right now he doesn't have a feud to progress to so he's just floundering in matches in a makeshift feud with Jack Swagger. The only way he could get into the title picture is if they book him against Henry at Royal Rumble for the WHC. There's really no way for Barrett or Ziggler to get there without a win.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Winning the rumble doesnt guarantee sucess look at ADR he won and now he's been jobbed out to Cena and Punk made to look a fool


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> You seem to forget greendayedgehead that before the Cena feud *Edge also feuded w/ Orton in '04 and that put Edge on the map way before his feud w/ Cena* did and they didnt need gimmick matches like the Cena-Edge matches to do it.Orton and Edge tore the houses down and both guys got more over than either guy was and Orton was one of the most hated heels going back then while Edge was on the cusp of the top face guys and after that feud he got there.
> 
> No gimmick ladder matches or anything,just a feud over the IC title. And how did Cena put over Punk by not even doing one clean job to him? How does that booking you do work where to get a guy over you have him win on screwjobs only? You book for TNA or something? You really Vince Russo?
> 
> And as a side note,you know whats best about all these jobs Orton's been doing? In WWE land that always means something big will be coming Orton's way soon(as a "reward")so I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG. HOLY SHIT. Are you seriously comparing Edge's feud with Cena to his feud with Orton right now? I can't breathe.

First of, it "put Edge on the map" because he had just come back from thirteen months off. You know, because of his broken freakin' neck. At this point he was no more over than he had been pre neck break, perhaps slightly more, and what's worse is he started getting stale as a babyface soon after. I believe he got booed at that year's Summerslam. So he turned heel. After that feud with Orton he 'got there'? No, after that feud with Orton he feuded with Hardy, and became one of the most hated heels. Not one of the most loved babyfaces. 
Edge vs Cena made Edge _the_ heel, and Cena _the_ babyface. I really don't see how you could attempt to compare the two feuds.

If you don't see the significance of two straight pins at PPVs over John Cena, then there's really nothing else I can say to you. You probably think a guy has to win to be put over, don't you 

By the way, Orton is not winning the Royal Rumble.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Winning the rumble doesnt guarantee sucess look at ADR he won and now he's been jobbed out to Cena and Punk made to look a fool


Nothing guarentees success. But Del Rio has had more chances than most. It's a case where Vince loves him a lot more than the general public does.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Coming from someone with a avatar of the One Man Botchamania video himself that says a lot from you. And what were the reasons for Austin winning 3 of of 5 Rumbles #1peep? Or Hogan and HBK winning 2 in a row each? And like I said,you can list all the 'reasons" those guys won it its still NOT getting any NEW guys over having them win it which is what everyone says the Rumble is to do.
> 
> The one 'new" guy to have won one recently is ADR and that was last year. Besides him have they made any "new" guys in the Rumble the past 7 years? No. So if Orton does win it(which again is far from 100% since its probably already been changed 100 times since Meltzer said it)is it any different from recent past winners? No. Did Austin and HBK or Hogan need to win the Rumbles when they did? Were they already not over enough or something?
> 
> And just because the Rumble is is Orton's hometown next year dont mean he'll win it either. Look at the MITB match he was in in 2010 when Miz beat him just when he was about to get the case. Where was that held in? Oh yeah,St Louis.


Are you fucking Serious with this post? 

Hogan & austin are two of the biggest draws in the WWE & shawn michaels was the only top guy at the time. 

Orton is no where near the draw austin & hogan were & he is the not top guy like shawn was. 


It would be fucking disgrace if orton won the rumble. This backstage politicking piece of shit needs to be fucking released.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Who says I compared Orton to anybody? I was stating something alot of you cant figure out and thats FACTS. And the fact is over the last 6-7 years no 'new" guys has won The Rumble except ADR.And boy did that do wonders for him. 

And FACT #2,did I say Orton winning it was 100% gonna happen? No but you guys sure seems like its going to. All I said was its how Vince likes to book guys that do good things by helping others get over and doing jobs and being unselfish. He's always has done that.

And greendayedge head,if you think Punk not going over Cena clean in both those matches helped him get over you need to try watching a new proffession as you know nothing about this one. Maybe if he beat him clean in any one of those matches than yeah,but Punk is only over now like he is because of him,nobody else. Thats like saying Orton was over as a heel in '09 because of Ted and Cody.

And if Orton dont win the Rumble so what? Will the world end? Will wrestling just blow up and die? I can care less if he wins,but if he does win it I'll remember your last comment in your post.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Orton again shows how a top guy should be*



mst3rulz said:


> Another(fairly) clean job to Ziggler tonight. See how its done Cena? Its not too hard.


You always say its not the wrestlers fault but the creative. What makes this any different?


----------



## TJC93 (Nov 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Coming from someone with a avatar of the One Man Botchamania video himself that says a lot from you. =


Forgot avatars decided what opinions you could have :hmm: :hmm: fpalm


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Orton again shows how a top guy should be*



CaptainCharisma said:


> You always say its not the wrestlers fault but the creative. What makes this any different?


This actually. Every time someone bashes orton well at least 2+ months ago your counter argument was its the Bookers. 
So what about Cena? Does he book himself to win?


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

God I hope Orton wins the Rumble. Orton deserves it way more than anyone else and all the butthurt smark fans who mark for indy wrasslers like Punk will cry themselves to sleep.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

rcc said:


> God I hope Orton wins the Rumble. Orton deserves it way more than anyone else and all the butthurt smark fans who mark for indy wrasslers like Punk will cry themselves to sleep.


and if orton does NOT win will YOU cry yourself to sleep? 
just asking cause you are the one who sounds butthurt


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

Not in the slightest. Wrassslin' isn't real. Smarks act like it is though....


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> Does he book himself to win?


Cena's the face of the company he holds a lot of power


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Its not how Cena is booked. What matters is he refuses to put anyone over CLEAN. When was his last CLEAN JOB? By that I mean no screw jobs,no outside interference,no runins,no foot on the ropes or being locked in a cage to where he cant do anything.

Theres no way Cena cant say "I wanna put this guy over and try to get him to the next level." Or "Yeah,Im a top guy and Henry needs to beat someone like me to get over as the World Champ so Id be glad to cleanly job to him." Or "Yeah Id be glad to get "bagged" to try and get Cody over on live tv." But has he done anything like that at all?

Is he that scared of his spot? And dont tell me top guys like that dont book their own match finishes.Hogan had did it for years,Austin refused to job to Lesnar a few times etc. At least Orton is secure in his spot and cares about doing what is right for the biz and his and WWE's future.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

rcc said:


> Not in the slightest. Wrassslin' isn't real. Smarks act like it is though....


well its still entertaining and no smarks dont act like it is
but if someone can make me invest myself into his character than that guy is pretty good and i will cheer for him

example: you watch a movie and there is this stupid annoying person and you want that person just to fuck off
does this make anything happening in the movie real?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

Cena doesn't book himself. He's booked as any of Vince's favorites are booked. I'm not surprised by how he's booked and neither should anyone else. To blame Cena is ridiculous.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Its not how Cena is booked.If he books the match results or not it dont matter. What matters is he refuses to put anyone over CLEAN. When was his last CLEAN JOB? By that I mean no screw jobs,no outside interference,no runins,no foot on the ropes or being locked in a cage to where he cant do anything.
> 
> *Theres no way Cena cant say "I wanna put this guy over and try to get him to the next level." Or "Yeah,Im a top guy and Henry needs to beat someone like me to get over as the World Champ so Id be glad to cleanly job to him." Or "Yeah Id be glad to get "bagged" to try and get Cody over on live tv." But has he done anything like that at all?*
> 
> Is he that scared of his spot? And dont tell me top guys like that dont book their own match finishes.Hogan had did it for years,Austin refused to job to Lesnar a few times etc. At least Orton is secure in his spot and cares about doing what is right for the biz and his and WWE's future.


so orton said that or was it that bookers finally realized they have to put someone else over or they are screwed? and orton just accepted
same for cena he just does what he is told to 
i remember him wanting to feud with punk because he saw potential and thats how he really got him over 
the hate everyone had for cena thats what got punk over and not the clean job he hasnt done
cena IS secure in his spot he still sells more merch than orton and his segments on raw draw


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Theres no way Cena cant say "I wanna put this guy over and try to get him to the next level." Or "Yeah,Im a top guy and Henry needs to beat someone like me to get over as the World Champ so Id be glad to cleanly job to him." Or "Yeah Id be glad to get "bagged" to try and get Cody over on live tv." But has he done anything like that at all?


Have you been in creative meanings centering around Cena? How do you know this hasn't happened? You do realize that Vince makes the final call. Creative has wanted to make Cena heel and give up his #1 face spot. Vince has resisted.

And as for sharing the spotlight, he has no problem pushing Zack Ryder endlessly. So to say that this hasn't come up, you'll going to have some backstage information of merit.

And since you'll pull up the what about Orton card, Orton is given permission to put people over because he isn't nearly as valuable to Vince as Cena. Cena sells more merchandise and is more over with the kids. Vince loves the kids. If he protects one, it'll be Cena. Especially since Vince can replace Sheamus with Orton. Vince has never gotten CM Punk. There's tons of quotes about that out there. He'd never replace Cena with CM Punk.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

#1Peep4ever said:


> cena IS secure in his spot he still sells more merch than orton and his segments on raw draw


This. Exactly. Why does this go over most people's heads? Wrestling is a business. It's about money. Cena draws it in.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Yeah,he pushed Ryder on the 'net but would he job to him on tv? I bet not. Until Cena does even ONE clean job it dont change the fact he hasnt put anyone over cleanly in over a year. His last submission job was to Angle in 2004.

If hes so close to Vince hed job clean and Vince knows it wouldnt hurt Cena one bit. Punk's jobbed the last 5 PPV's before the last one,Orton's jobbed to Henry 2 PPVs in a row clean. Thats what top guys are to do for the business and until Cena shows he'd be willing to job hes the new Hulk Hogan imo.

Austin also made tons of money for WWE and he jobbed alot. Same w/Rock. Even Savage. Like I said,Punks jobbed the last 5 PPVs before the last one.Whos the #1 money maker in WWE now? Punk.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Man, you guys (Charisma, Obvious and Peep) are owning mst3rulz here. I guess you won't need my help then =p


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

I guess idiots think alike.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> If hes so close to Vince hed job clean and Vince knows it wouldnt hurt Cena one bit.


I've lost count of how many terrible booking/creative decisions Vince has approved this year. Just because he knows it, doesn't mean he's going to do it. Again, this isn't Cena's fault. Ultimately, it goes to booking/creative and Vince himself.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

You know Cena has loads of pull and if he loves the biz as much as he says he'd do whats right to get his 'buddy' Ryder and others over. Praising him on Twitter wont do it,maybe jobbing to him would since hes such the top money guy.
If he did the crowd would go nuts since Ryder is so more over than Cena now its crazy. Itd do more for Ryder than anything. Any bets on if he'd do it? I bet Punk and/or Orton would.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> *Yeah,he pushed Ryder on the 'net but would he job to him on tv?* I bet not. Until Cena does even ONE clean job it dont change the fact he hasnt put anyone over cleanly in over a year. His last submission job was to Angle in 2004.
> 
> *If hes so close to Vince hed job clean and Vince knows it wouldnt hurt Cena one bit. *Punk's jobbed the last 5 PPV's before the last one,Orton's jobbed to Henry 2 PPVs in a row clean. Thats what top guys are to do for the business and until Cena shows he'd be willing to job hes the new Hulk Hogan imo.
> 
> Austin also made tons of money for WWE and he jobbed alot. Same w/Rock. Even Savage. Like I said,Punks jobbed the last 5 PPVs before the last one.Whos the #1 money maker in WWE now? Punk.


You are talking about Vince! The man who pushed Mason Ryan. In the Arena Ryder gets a huge reaction. He might loose viewers when it comes to ratings but so does Orton. Punk jobbed because he wasnt the top guy then. 

Uhmm again... Do you know Cena personally? Do you know that he does not want to job? Punk may be outselling Cena but Cena is close behind him and as Captain said. The kids LOVE Cena and Vince does not want to loose them. Austin rarely did clean job in his prime.



> Man, you guys (Charisma, Obvious and Peep) are owning mst3rulz here. I guess you won't need my help then =p


lol




> ,maybe jobbing to him would since hes such the top money guy.


ryder is midcard maybe still a bit lower
why should a main eventer a 10 wwe champ suddenly job to him 
and as you said ryder now is more over than cena so i dont really get what it would get him right now

and another thing is... they are both faces (yes cena is still a face)


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Man I must be great if it takes 3-4 marks to try to make me look bad(and failing huge at the same time).And yeah peepfan Punk wasnt the top guy then but they wwre trying to get him there and Cena still wouldnt job to him clean in 2 PPV matches. So hows that getting Punk over?

Compare what Orton did for Henry in their 2 PPV matchesto get Mark over to how Cena "got Punk over" in theirs. Big difference huh?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> I bet Punk and/or Orton would.


CM Punk and Orton would do whatever Vince told them to do. If he told them for the next year Punk/Orton wasn't going to job, they wouldn't job. No one is going to go against whatever Vince decides. Again, the blame is misdirected.


----------



## Onyx (Apr 12, 2011)

So if Cena loses clean just once, but gets back a victory against the same opponent the following week, the kids will no longer like him and he won't sell merchandise anymore?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Man I must be great if it takes 3-4 marks to try to make me look bad(and failing huge at the same time).


Actually, I'm looking at someone who makes a statement, does an insult, and then repeats the statement again.

And then three or four people who calmly try to explain how the business works. I'd say the only fail is trying to communicate to someone who clearly doesn't understand how things are booked and creative decisions are made.

And really, please learn what wrestling terms mean. Where have I marked for Cena in this thread? I just explained why it's happening. It's a business. It's bigger than Cena.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

skyman101 said:


> So if Cena loses clean just once, but gets back a victory against the same opponent the following week, the kids will no longer like him and he won't sell merchandise anymore?


maybe you did not notice it but cena was booked as superman in the last few years 
so its would be unrealistic for some midcarder to beat him CLEAN
as for this comment pls direct it at VINCENT K MCMAHON


----------



## Figure4Leglock (Aug 18, 2010)

i hope Orton wins so we can whine and complain about it, i know i would. First step would be frustration then it would turn into acceptance and afterward just before WM it will turn into reality and there`s not a damn thing we can do about it .


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

I know how the biz works way more than you 4 combined and all of you make no sense whatsoever. You used to jump on "SuperOrton" for refusing to job and always blamed him for it but for Cena its a whole different ballgame when he does the same thing just because hes the 'bigger star." Which is the worst b.s excuse Ive ever heard.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

To #1peep,Cena WAS booked as Superman? Was? When did it stop?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> You used to jump on "SuperOrton" for refusing to job and always blamed him for it


I've never blamed any wrestler for any booking/creative decision. In multiple threads of Orton's, I've clearly said that the problems were creative and booking, approved by Vince. You have my posts confused with someone else.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Man I must be great if it takes 3-4 marks to try to make me look bad(and failing huge at the same time).And yeah peepfan Punk wasnt the top guy then but they wwre trying to get him there and Cena still wouldnt job to him clean in 2 PPV matches. So hows that getting Punk over?
> 
> Compare what Orton did for Henry in their 2 PPV matchesto get Mark over to how Cena "got Punk over" in theirs. Big difference huh?


So Mark now is more over than Punk?



> I know how the biz works way more than you 4 combined and all of you make no sense whatsoever. You used to jump on "SuperOrton" for refusing to job and always blamed him for it but for Cena its a whole different ballgame when he does the same thing just because hes the 'bigger star." Which is the worst b.s excuse Ive ever heard.





> To #1peep,Cena WAS booked as Superman? Was? When did it stop?


so thats your argument?!

No we started talking about that because you always pointed out that Orton didnt do jobs because the booker did not want him to. And now we are calmly trying to explain to you that its the same with Cena cause you contradict yourself when you say Cena doesnt want to do clean jobs but in ortons case its booking....




> Man I must be great if it takes 3-4 marks to try to make me look bad(and failing huge at the same time).And yeah peepfan Punk wasnt the top guy then but they wwre trying to get him there and Cena still wouldnt job to him clean in 2 PPV matches. So hows that getting Punk over?
> 
> Compare what Orton did for Henry in their 2 PPV matchesto get Mark over to how Cena "got Punk over" in theirs. Big difference huh?


pls point out where we failed 
there is a quote function you know... just sayin...


----------



## Fenice (Nov 4, 2010)

He's actually starting to put other people over and there are complaints... Really?


----------



## snuggiedawg (Nov 29, 2011)

I think ppl look a tad bit wee to much into all of this booking stuff


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Cena has more pull with Vince and you all know it.He could do anything and get away with it. If he refused to job to anyone Vince would ok it. Do you think Cena would be less over if he jobbed clean for a month straight? You know he wouldnt be. Vince knows it too. 

And until he jobs to ANYONE CLEAN Im always gonna say this so get back to me when he does do a clean job to anyone. I'll see you again in...probably never.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Cena has more pull with *Vince* and you all know it.He could do anything and get away with it. If he refused to job to anyone Vince would ok it. Do you think Cena would be less over if he jobbed clean for a month straight? You know he wouldnt be. Vince knows it too.
> 
> And until he jobs to ANYONE CLEAN Im always gonna say this so get back to me when he does do a clean jonb to anyone. I'll see you again in...never.


you know that vince you are talking about is pushing mason ryan 
he is one of the reasons why wwe is using twitter like crazy 
he thinks of turning truth
he thinks that if cena lost 3 times in a row clean or not it might take a bit of cenas creditability (vs awesome truth)


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

#1Peep4ever said:


> you know that vince you are talking about is pushing mason ryan


He continues to push Ezekiel Jackson. As a face. If there's any point to make that Vince is stubborn and clearly follows his own opinions alone, that's the one to make. And while Triple H may be different, I have a feeling that once he takes over, there's going to be equally as strong opinions that he will follow.


----------



## CM Jewels (Nov 19, 2011)

All I know is, Orton has gained newfound respect for the way he has been putting guys over lately.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Zeke and Ryan are being pushed? Not recently they havent.They hardly even have been on tv the past few weeks. And we all know Vince pushes the no talent muscleheads so what this has to do w/Orton I dont know.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Zeke and Ryan are being pushed? Not recently they havent.They hardly even have been on tv the past few weeks. And we all know Vince pushes the no talent muscleheads so what this has to do w/Orton I dont know.


Ryan's got a push and it's still continuing. He wasn't on last week because creative had to get rid of Morrison from the US title picture.

Zeke return promos are running every Smackdown. They are keeping him in people's minds while he gets someone to feud with. He is set for a push after his last run failed.

As for why they are examples, it was to prove the point that Vince does what he wants and is stubborn.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Cena's the face of the company *he holds a lot of power*


And Orton does not?

He is vince's golden boy for crying out loud.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Yeah,he pushed Ryder on the 'net but would he job to him on tv? I bet not. Until Cena does even ONE clean job it dont change the fact he hasnt put anyone over cleanly in over a year. His last submission job was to Angle in 2004.
> 
> If hes so close to Vince hed job clean and Vince knows it wouldnt hurt Cena one bit. Punk's jobbed the last 5 PPV's before the last one,Orton's jobbed to Henry 2 PPVs in a row clean. Thats what top guys are to do for the business and until Cena shows he'd be willing to job hes the new Hulk Hogan imo.
> 
> Austin also made tons of money for WWE and he jobbed alot. Same w/Rock. Even Savage. Like I said,Punks jobbed the last 5 PPVs before the last one.Whos the #1 money maker in WWE now? Punk.


fpalmfpalmfpalm

PUnk & orton do not draw like cena does. Vince cannot have cena do clean jobs. There is a reason he is the face of the company.

Your posts are getting dumber & dumber.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Zeke and Ryan are being pushed? Not recently they havent.They hardly even have been on tv the past few weeks. And we all know Vince pushes the no talent muscleheads so what this has to do w/Orton I dont know.


Ryan was not on last weeks Raw because there was no time for him.
Zeke is being hyped and he will come back as a face.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> I guess idiots think alike.


The only idiot here is you. I say that with no malice.



mst3rulz said:


> You know Cena has loads of pull and if he loves the biz as much as he says he'd do whats right to get his 'buddy' Ryder and others over. Praising him on Twitter wont do it,maybe jobbing to him would since hes such the top money guy.
> If he did the crowd would go nuts since Ryder is so more over than Cena now its crazy. Itd do more for Ryder than anything. Any bets on if he'd do it? I bet Punk and/or Orton would.


fpalm fpalm fpalm

you know more about the business than all of us? you really do? that's why you think it's a good idea to have your top babyface in the prime of his career job clean to a fairly green midcarder? 

again, if you do not see what is wrong with this statement, there is no hope for you. at all. and I don't know why you keep trying to compare Orton to Cena. Orton is not nearly the draw Cena is. 


Fenice said:


> He's actually starting to put other people over and there are complaints... Really?


from whiny Orton marks. who else?


mst3rulz said:


> Cena has more pull with Vince and you all know it.He could do anything and get away with it.


could do anything and get away with it? *Randy Orton's steroid charges*, pal.

If Cena had that pull, Ryder would have been on television as soon as Cena vouched for him. He would have turned heel about three years ago, too. Keep bullshitting yourself, yeah?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> Randy Orton's steroid charges, pal.


fpalm

For fuck sake Orton was SUSPENDED FOR THAT why do people feel the need to keep bringing it up to attack him? He took his punishment


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Simply Flawless said:


> For fuck sake Orton was SUSPENDED FOR THAT why do people feel the need to keep bringing it up to attack him? He took his punishment


On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*

Orton was suspended for taking marijuana, but he skipped the steroid suspension


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> I guess idiots think alike.


no one is thinking like you


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> - wrong thread


?


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

#1Peep4ever said:


> ?


ignore that, sorry.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*
> 
> Orton was suspended for taking marijuana, but he skipped the steroid suspension


Wrong he was suspended for 60 days AFTER he OD'd the pot thing was a cover, its on his fucking dvd if you want proof


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Starship wrong??? Nah,can it be?? (insert sarcasm).


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Simply Flawless said:


> Wrong he was suspended for 60 days AFTER he OD'd the pot thing was a cover, its on his fucking dvd if you want proof


He was suspended for taking marijuana backstage. Orton admitted that. 



> http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/9/19/2433266/wwe-randy-orton-dvd-review-the-redemption-of-a-viper
> 
> *WWE Randy Orton DVD Review - The Redemption Of A Viper?
> *
> ...


He didn't get suspended for taking steroids. That's my point. I never said anything about any overdose - why did you bring that into the argument?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> He was suspended for taking marijuana backstage. Orton admitted that.


Go watch his dvd he states he was suspended for 60 days THE TIME HE OVERDOSED ON PAINKILLERS...it wasnt for pot for christ sake that was a lie Randy told because on his dvd he admits he was so drugged up he was refusing to admit he had a problem.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

OK very well then pot or painkillers it doesn't really matter any more - because pot and painkillers are not steroids!

my point is that *Orton was never suspended for steroids*.



Simply Flawless said:


> greendayedgehead said:
> 
> 
> > could do anything and get away with it? *Randy Orton's steroid charges*, pal.
> ...





Simply Flawless said:


> Go watch his dvd he states he was suspended for 60 days THE TIME HE OVERDOSED ON PAINKILLERS...it wasnt for pot for christ sake that was a lie Randy told because on his dvd he admits he was so drugged up he was refusing to admit he had a problem.


you say Orton was suspended for steroids... now you're saying he's been suspended for painkiller overdose? 

_Contradiction_.

So which one is it? You don't overdose on steroids. You overdose on drugs.


----------



## jaw2929 (Dec 3, 2011)

It's actually NICE to see Blandy Boreton actually LOSE lately.


----------



## InstantClassic100 (Oct 10, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> He was suspended for taking marijuana backstage. Orton admitted that.
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't get suspended for taking steroids. That's my point. I never said anything about any overdose - why did you bring that into the argument?


You just fucking slayed simplyflawless' ass to the ground lol.


----------



## InstantClassic100 (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: Why is Orton, despite being one of the top stars, is treated like shit by the WWE*



mst3rulz said:


> He'd do that way before Cena ever would,he dont even do clean job #1 to get anyone over.


Your forgetting one thing. Cena Draws people. Orton draws jack shit ala smackdown attendance. Raw is still getting good seat numbers, mainly cause of Cena and to a lesser degree Punk.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> OK very well then pot or painkillers it doesn't really matter any more - because pot and painkillers are not steroids!
> 
> my point is that *Orton was never suspended for steroids*.
> 
> ...


Try and pay attention please the guy was on a lot of drugs including steroids and he got suspended fotr his OD why the fuck do you think he went from being fat to skinny? Because he stopped taking them. You can keep trying to claim it was pot when RANDY HIMSELF STATED THAT WAS A LIE TO COVER UP HIS DRUG ADDICTION.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Simply Flawless said:


> Try and pay attention please the guy was on a lot of drugs including steroids and he got suspended fotr his OD why the fuck do you think he went from being fat to skinny? Because he stopped taking them. You can keep trying to claim it was pot when RANDY HIMSELF STATED THAT WAS A LIE TO COVER UP HIS DRUG ADDICTION.


OK right now I do not care whether it is pot or painkiller. In either scenario it wasn't steroids.

I only care whether Orton was suspended for taking steroids or not.

If Orton got suspended for smoking marijuana backstage, he was not suspended for taking steroids.

If Orton got suspended for overdosing on painkillers, he was not suspended for taking steroids.

*My point is that Randy Orton was not suspended for taking steroids.* Is that very hard to comprehend?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> OK right now I do not care whether it is pot or painkiller. In either scenario it wasn't steroids.
> 
> I only care whether Orton was suspended for taking steroids or not.
> 
> ...


Your making yourself look stupid by basing your opinion on a lie told by a drug addicted Orton to cover his problems. The OD was why he was suspended but he was on steroids and got 60 days for it. Obviously you are just blind to the Orton hate. The suspension obviously included roids necause guess what he magically lost weight soon after he got back. Why the fuck do you care if he got suspended by roids or not? His drug usage is none of your business nor anyone else


----------



## Killswitch Stunner (May 23, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> *My point is that Randy Orton was not suspended for taking steroids.* Is that very hard to comprehend?


Double standard. Main eventers are never suspended for that shit. Otherwise, Triple H and Rock would have been. Probably several others too. So lack of suspension doesn't mean anything.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Your making yourself look stupid by basing your opinion on a lie told by a drug addicted Orton to cover his problems. The OD was why he was suspended but he was on steroids and got 60 days for it. Obviously you are just blind to the Orton hate. The suspension obviously included roids necause guess what he magically lost weight soon after he got back. *Why the fuck do you care if he got suspended by roids or not? His drug usage is none of your business nor anyone else*




mst3rulz started this




> Cena has more pull with Vince and you all know it.He could do anything and get away with it.


thats how it started


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

It's about time Orton help's guys out. I've enjoying the less overpushed and overbooked Orton as of late. It's increasing my enjoyment levels for Smackdown.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> OK right now I do not care whether it is pot or painkiller. In either scenario it wasn't steroids.
> 
> I only care whether Orton was suspended for taking steroids or not.
> 
> ...


You are so fucking silly. Does it matter what he was suspended for? He was on a bunch of drugs and took two months off because of that. It's simple as that. Steroid, painkillers, pot, cocaine, ecstasy, heroin or crack... whatever he was taking, he took the punishment for it.

It's like complaining that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't face the charges for every single murder he committed and say that he "avoided taking the punishment for killing Person X".


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> You are so fucking silly. Does it matter what he was suspended for? He was on a bunch of drugs and took two months off because of that. It's simple as that. Steroid, painkillers, pot, cocaine, ecstasy, heroin or crack... whatever he was taking, he took the punishment for it.
> 
> It's like complaining that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't face the charges for every single murder he committed and say that he "avoided taking the punishment for killing Person X".


 good Post man. to me it doesn't matter as long as the wrestlers get their act together. everybody knows orton has drug probelms but the last few years has gotten it together. remember HBK was a full blown addict for number of years and has been clean now for a while


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Try watching,renting whatever Orotn's DVD and you'll hear from him yourself the true story. Sure he made mistakes in his life,who hasnt? He paid his dues and took his punishment. His wife and daughter changed his life like most times they do for people. Ever watch the Behind the Music" shows where they have bios on the lives of rock stars that almost died from decades of drugs and then had a family and changed for the good of not on that person but for them too?

Randy did the same thing.Unless you lead a perfect,mistake free like yourself(ha)dont judge themn for their pasts but maybe compliment them on the good changes they made in his/her life for once.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)




----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


>


What a shit Gif.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Congrats Tankofrate, you win the award for dumbest post ever in wrestling board history. You're just mad Orron has a woman and you still have to write your name and number on bathroom walls to try and get some?


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> You are so fucking silly. Does it matter what he was suspended for? He was on a bunch of drugs and took two months off because of that. It's simple as that. Steroid, painkillers, pot, cocaine, ecstasy, heroin or crack... whatever he was taking, he took the punishment for it.
> 
> It's like complaining that Jeffrey Dahmer didn't face the charges for every single murder he committed and say that he "avoided taking the punishment for killing Person X".





JCrusher said:


> good Post man. to me it doesn't matter as long as the wrestlers get their act together. everybody knows orton has drug probelms but the last few years has gotten it together. remember HBK was a full blown addict for number of years and has been clean now for a while


ChokeCrusher, it's kinda obvious you two don't know the facts. Try reading this.

On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*

Orton continued to take steroids even after his original drug suspension. Therefore it is a new offense and he deserves to be suspended again because even after his original suspension he hasn't learnt at all. It's like you serve time for a robbery, you come out and you rob again, would you jail the guy again?



mst3rulz said:


> Try watching,renting whatever Orotn's DVD and you'll hear from him yourself the true story. Sure he made mistakes in his life,who hasnt? He paid his dues and took his punishment. His wife and daughter changed his life like most times they do for people. Ever watch the Behind the Music" shows where they have bios on the lives of rock stars that almost died from decades of drugs and then had a family and changed for the good of not on that person but for them too?
> 
> Randy did the same thing.Unless you lead a perfect,mistake free like yourself(ha)dont judge themn for their pasts but maybe compliment them on the good changes they made in his/her life for once.


Oh you wanna play this card eh? This card that says "everyone makes mistakes so let's not judge others who make mistakes".

Well then I hope you won't be a hypocrite... because you're not allowed to criticize anyone at all. You're not supposed to criticize Kofi Kingston for forgetting the finish to his match with Orton was a punt instead of an RKO. You're not allowed to criticize Mr Kennedy for being dangerous in the ring. You're not going to judge Benoit as well, right?


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> ChokeCrusher, it's kinda obvious you two don't know the facts. Try reading this.
> 
> On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*
> 
> ...


 I thought I said the last few years. I wasn't defending anyone i said he fucked up. Now i am not gonna pretend i know if he was on steroids or not i dont. And I dont know the guy personally but the last couple years since he had a family it seems he doesn't do that. Also i dont mind people disagreeing but there are nicer way to do it instead of acting like a smartass


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

To starhip,nice ignoring what I said about the DVD and what he's become since then. If youre gonna bash Orton for HIS PAST,why dont you bash Orton in the present too? Cant find too much can you? You just like to live in the past when it comes to him dont you? I live in the pressnt and the present is he learned from all his mistakes,took his punishment,came back better than ever and has shown that by putting over other guys and doing whats right for the buiness and it comfortable with his spot.

Maybe you dont like that "card I play" because you know all I said is true and you just hate it dont you because of that fact right? Youre making it sound like Randy is Scott Hall Version 2 or one of The Hardys and thats total b.s.


----------



## blazegod99 (Feb 26, 2008)

SMH at most of these posts.

Orton is booked like a true main eventer. He's booked strongly at times, which he fucking should be. Every main eventer should be booked strongly. The difference here is that Orton has not BURIED anyone that he's went against. He beat Cody, now Cody is the most over heel on SD IMO, and feuding with a returning Booker T. He's facing Barrett and Barrett's stock is rising again after being stuck in the mud for a while. Orton lost the title back to Christian(even if he lost it in a... funny way lol) and Christian had a month long run with the belt and stayed in the main event scene along with a great feud with Orton. Christian went right from Orton to his ONE MORE MATCH campaign a semi-main event feud with Sheamus. Orton has been booked tremendously and he's been booked way better than Cena if you ask me in the last 2 years. 

2010
Orton beat Cody and Ted at WM 26(rightfully so.... Cody nor Ted deserved it at the time)
Orton lost to Jack Swagger at Extreme Rules(kinda clean too, since no interference)
Orton didnt go over at OTL, Fatal 4 Way, MITB, or Summerslam.
Orton finally wins the belt at NOC 2010, then beats Sheamus and Barrett, all the while losing the title to Miz and losing two-three rematches against Miz. 

2011
Orton was eliminated by Punk at EC 2011
Orton beat Punk at WM 27 and ER(he shoulda lost at least ONE of these)
Orton beat Christian at SD, OTL, and CP(I think he should've won at all of those cept CP)
Orton lost at MITB, then regain at SS, only to lose to Henry at NOC, then lose again CLEANLY at HIAC. 
Orton beat Cody at VENGENANCE only to lose to Cody and Barrett at Survivor Series.

That has been the best booking of a main eventer in a long time if you ask me. I cant see too much wrong with that.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Congrats Tankofrate, you win the award for dumbest post ever in wrestling board history. You're just mad Orron has a woman and you still have to write your name and number on bathroom walls to try and get some?


Tankofrate is a girl, i think.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> Congrats Tankofrate, you win the award for dumbest post ever in wrestling board history. You're just mad Orron has a woman and you still have to write your name and number on bathroom walls to try and get some?


Don't you have any mature rebuttals?


----------



## rcc (Dec 16, 2009)

starship.paint said:


> ChokeCrusher, it's kinda obvious you two don't know the facts. Try reading this.
> 
> On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*
> 
> ...


:lmao Honestly who gives a shit? You use this and the stupid AWOL thing as a reason to hate Orton. How in the hell has this stuff got anything to do with his performance inside the ring (where he is one of the best)? They're just lame smarky excuses to hate on a wrestler.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

I heard Orton even tried to bury the Miz in 2009.

Found it - 



> In a shades similar to past incidents with Kofi Kingston and Ken Anderson, Randy Orton was legitimately rattled by The Miz during their match at Monday's Raw taping in San Antonio.
> 
> Though details are presently scarce, the Money in the Bank briefcase bearer reportedly messed up the timing of the match, thus causing "The Viper" to angrily react. The bout culminated with an RKO, allowing Orton to pick up the win. Orton was said to be very upset when he arrived to the backstage area.
> 
> ...




Orton is a Fucking backstage politicking prick who never earned any of his pushes. Who knows how many blowjobs he gave to Vince mcmahon to get to the position he is at right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> ChokeCrusher, it's kinda obvious you two don't know the facts. Try reading this.
> 
> On August 30, 2007, Sports Illustrated named Randy Orton as one of fourteen contracted and former WWE performers to have purchased pharmaceuticals from an online pharmacy (Signature Pharamacy), a violation of the Talent Wellness Program. Specifically, Orton received somatropin, nandrolone, stanozolol between September 2004 and February 2007, which occurred after the "no drugs from online sources" rule was instituted. However, Orton was the lone contracted performer not to be suspended by WWE. Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer reported that WWE did not suspend Orton because he had already been suspended for a drug policy violation in August 2006, resulting in double jeopardy. *The ruling, however, appeared nonsensical since Orton continued to receive pharmaceuticals following the suspension.*
> 
> Orton continued to take steroids even after his original drug suspension. Therefore it is a new offense and he deserves to be suspended again because even after his original suspension he hasn't learnt at all. It's like you serve time for a robbery, you come out and you rob again, would you jail the guy again?


So, he made the same mistake after that, but guess what: he's learnt since then and has become clean. He probably got away with it because he was higher up on the card. The question is, what point are you trying to get across? That Orton has backstage pull? Sure he does, he's a higher up and one of the few established main eventers. Saying he has more pull than Cena is complete bullshit, though. Cena could probably ask Vince to give him a blowjob or else he'll quit and Vince would bow down in a second. "but Cena is a bigger draw!!!", yes and that's why he also has more backstage pull than Orton. Seriously, I hear so many ridiculous stuff here, just quit it. Trying to justify Cena NEVER losing clean (not for the last two years, he hasn't) is stupidity at it's finest, however. Yes, I'm not saying let him take clean pins here and there on a regular basis, but it wont hurt his credibility to have lost clean to CM Punk at SummerSlam instead of that stupid "foot on the rope" bullshit that got swept under the rug after HHH's supposed "apology".


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> So, he made the same mistake after that, but guess what: he's learnt since then and has become clean. He probably got away with it because he was higher up on the card. The question is, what point are you trying to get across? That Orton has backstage pull? Sure he does, he's a higher up and one of the few established main eventers. Saying he has more pull than Cena is complete bullshit, though. Cena could probably ask Vince to give him a blowjob or else he'll quit and Vince would bow down in a second. "but Cena is a bigger draw!!!", yes and that's why he also has more backstage pull than Orton. Seriously, I hear so many ridiculous stuff here, just quit it. Trying to justify Cena NEVER losing clean (not for the last two years, he hasn't) is stupidity at it's finest, however. *Yes, I'm not saying let him take clean pins here and there on a regular basis, but it wont hurt his credibility to have lost clean to CM Punk at SummerSlam instead of that stupid "foot on the rope" bullshit that got swept under the rug after HHH's supposed "apology".*


It was a business decision not john cena's decision. cena is known to be one of the most humble & professional guys in this business. No ego whatsoever.

Cena, despite being a top draw, lost the title to sheamus in 2009. Can you imagine Austin or hogan doing that in their prime?

Austin in 1997 or 1998(not sure) refused to lose the IC title to The rock & in 1999, refused to lose the World title to HHH. Thats why Vince had foley win the tile & put over HHH the next night.


John cena is nothing like that, he always does what he is asked to do by vince. Ever seen a report that says cena buried or wanted to bury anyone in the company? 

But look how many reports we have about orton.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

blazegod99 said:


> Orton lost the title back to Christian(even if he lost it in a... funny way lol) and Christian had a month long run with the belt and stayed in the main event scene along with a great feud with Orton. Christian went right from Orton to his ONE MORE MATCH campaign a semi-main event feud with Sheamus.


When was Christian in the main event scene as a heel? I must have missed that. There's a difference in chasing the title and being a true main eventer. He couldn't even main event when he had the title. 3 of the 4 weeks Orton main evented. And the feud with Sheamus was not a semi-main event feud. I'm not sure that term even exists. Are you saying upper midcard? The feud was a way to get Sheamus over and Christian down the card as the #4 heel of Smackdown and to prove to the audience why Christian will never be a main eventer.

That's not Orton's fault, that's booking and creative. But to say Christian got a fair chance to stay at the top is not correct. He didn't even get a chance. He got a two fluke title reigns (both booked horribly with absolutely no character or storyline progression except for getting rid of Christian as fast as possible) and absolutely no chance to keep his momentum as a top heel.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> When was Christian in the main event scene as a heel? I must have missed that. He couldn't even main event when he had the title. 3 of the 4 weeks Orton main evented. And the feud with Sheamus was not a semi-main event feud. I'm not sure that term even exists. Are you saying upper midcard? The feud was a way to get Sheamus over and Christian down the card as the #4 heel of Smackdown and to prove to the audience why Christian will never be a main eventer.
> 
> That's not Orton's fault, that's booking and creative. But to say Christian got a fair chance to stay at the top is not correct. He didn't even get a chance. He got a two fluke title reigns (both booked horribly with absolutely no character or storyline progression except for getting rid of Christian as fast as possible) and absolutely no chance to keep him momentum as a top heel.


 I think you have fair points. at least you weren't dumb enough to blame orton for christian as others have done. Like you said that was creative's fault. Also someone said orton is a backstage politician. but he has put more guys over the last two months than cena or triple combined did for years. I mean the kofi thing is really getting silly. kofi wasn't buried he still had success since then. Kennedy i'm sorry but he kind of sucked to me and he alwasy was hurt and hurt other wrestlers. Cena was pissed ta him because he injured him. Also Orton never buried the miz in fact he helped the miz and miz became a star. Like i said before i dont defend orton 2003-2007 he was an ass, a drug addict, and didn't help others. But now I mean even if you are not a fan you gotta give credit for his ringwork and helping younger guys.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Kirk angel said:


> It was a business decision not john cena's decision. cena is known to be one of the most humble & professional guys in this business. No ego whatsoever.
> 
> Cena, despite being a top draw, lost the title to sheamus in 2009. Can you imagine Austin or hogan doing that in their prime?
> 
> ...


No, I'm not saying that Cena is a backstage politician, he's far from that. I'm just saying he could use his backstage pull to tell Vince to do something about his stale character. Save for Alberto del Rio and Edge back in 2009, I honestly don't know if he has ever lost any feud from 2005 onwards and even those two cases featured interference that caused him to lose. I honestly don't know when Randy Orton has ever buried anyone. Nexus and Christian are two cases but I really don't think any of it was his fault. With Nexus, they realized they had already buried the stable enough as it was that it had lost all momentum, they want CM Punk and Orton to have a proper one on one match at WM and so they did. Why Orton went over in all matches? Probably because WWE had no plans on resigning him until Cena requested a feud with Punk.
In Christian's case, it's just the stupid writers having something against Christian and constantly booking him like a loser. At least against Orton he did get the upperhand and even snatched a few tag team victories and a DQ title win that was longer than his first one at least.

And that story about him being mad at The Miz is hard for me to believe in. Firstly, it was from 2010 not 2009 and secondly, he continued to put over The Miz in three matches. If he is such a backstage politician you want me to believe, Miz would have been floating in the midcard at best. Orton might have been a complete asshole back in his Legend Killer period but he has grown up since then and become more professional. He's taken the liberty to accept pins from The Miz, Mark Henry, Cody Rhodes Dolph Ziggler and Wade Barrett. All of which needed a victory against a main eventer to establish themselves. Compare Wade Barrett's match with Orton on Smackdown a few weeks back... he took a clean rollup loss then compare it to Cena a couple of months back. He squashed Barrett in a one minute match where Barrett didn't even counter Cena's AA after having performed his 5 Moves of Doom.


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> I think you have fair points. at least you weren't dumb enough to blame orton for christian as others have done. Like you said that was creative's fault. Also someone said orton is a backstage politician. but he has put more guys over the last two months than cena or triple combined did for years. I mean the kofi thing is really getting silly. kofi wasn't buried he still had success since then. Kennedy i'm sorry but he kind of sucked to me and he alwasy was hurt and hurt other wrestlers. Cena was pissed ta him because he injured him. Also Orton never buried the miz in fact he helped the miz and miz became a star. Like i said before i dont defend orton 2003-2007 he was an ass, a drug addict, and didn't help others. But now I mean even if you are not a fan you gotta give credit for his ringwork and helping younger guys.


He is jobbing now coz vince has finally realised Orton aint worth a shit. 

And you silly orton dickriders need to stop comparing him to top draws like Cena & HHH. Orton never fucking drew... he never will.

He is just doing what he should have done 4 fucking years ago.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> And as a side note,you know whats best about all these jobs Orton's been doing? In WWE land that always means something big will be coming Orton's way soon(as a "reward")so I see a Royal Rumble win coming soon.





mst3rulz said:


> Not that Meltzer is always right but hes reported many times the past few weeks that something big will happen to him as a 'reward" for doing these jobs(as always happens in WWE for anyone who has done this


How about Christian? Huh? Is he going to get rewarded for all the jobs he's been doing which is WAY more?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> How about Christian? Huh? Is he going to get rewarded for all the jobs he's been doing which is WAY more?


Unfortunately I highly doubt it. It's more down to Vince having something against Christian and nothing to do with Orton. I do hope that Christian gets a proper title run in the near future, though.


----------



## Negative Force (Mar 21, 2011)

Orton winning the Rumble in his hometown, then the WHC title @ WrestleMania on his birthday would be nice. He deserves it as reward for putting over all these guys.


----------



## StarzNBarz (Dec 22, 2010)

Oye Chico said:


> Orton winning the Rumble in his hometown, then the WHC title @ WrestleMania on his birthday would be nice. He deserves it as reward for putting over all these guys.


the guy puts over a few superstars and he deserves a royal rumble win AND whc? This is bullshit orton sucks and doesnt deserve to even be a main eventer.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

Oye Chico said:


> Orton winning the Rumble in his hometown, then the WHC title @ WrestleMania on his birthday would be nice. He deserves it as reward for putting over all these guys.



I agree. He deserves it.



StarzNBarz said:


> the guy puts over a few superstars and he deserves a royal rumble win AND whc? This is bullshit orton sucks and doesnt deserve to even be a main eventer.


Well he's a main eventer so get over it :flip. Oh in NBA news Lebron and the Heat owns sorry ass boston


----------



## Kirk angel (Nov 29, 2011)

Oye Chico said:


> Orton winning the Rumble in his hometown, then the WHC title @ WrestleMania on his birthday would be nice. He deserves it as reward for putting over all these guys.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> How about Christian? Huh? Is he going to get rewarded for all the jobs he's been doing which is WAY more?


No cause vince doesn't really like him LOL. He shouldn't hold the whole tna thing aganist and I hope that's not the case. I would give christian a run at the title if he was a face like he was in TNA. A three month would do.


----------



## InstantClassic100 (Oct 10, 2011)

Orton Killed CM Punks Momentum in Early 2011 that required a once in a decade feud to re-build. He legit killed Christians Career. He puts over Henry, Barrett(FUCKING ROLL UP), And Ziggler(Again Heel Victory), and he should win the rumble and main event Mania? Cena did the same shit with Punk, and MADE Punk. Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost killing a guy, thankfully who has now eclipsed Orton in Cm Punk and Killed Christians Career. I'm Speaking in Orton as the Character.

Also Cena Draws, Orton Draws Shit ala Smackdown attendance. Orton was given way too many oppurtunities. Orton Marks get at me. I'm speaking truth.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

InstantClassic100 said:


> Orton Killed CM Punks Momentum in Early 2011 that required a once in a decade feud to re-build. He legit killed Christians Career. He puts over Henry, Barrett(FUCKING ROLL UP), And Ziggler(Again Heel Victory), and he should win the rumble and main event Mania? Cena did the same shit with Punk, and MADE Punk. Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost killing a guy, thankfully who has now eclipsed Orton in Cm Punk and Killed Christians Career. I'm Speaking in Orton as the Character.
> 
> Also Cena Draws, Orton Draws Shit ala Smackdown attendance. Orton was given way too many oppurtunities. Orton Marks get at me. I'm speaking truth.


He killed christian's career what by beating him oh please. When christian wins the belt again you be won't be saying it. Smackdown's attendance suck before Orton got there but he has helped out. Orton is a draw not as big as Cena. Smackdown needs other people other than Orton to rise the attendance. Orton is still the # 2 guy with Punk on his heels. Orton should win the rumble. Look at WCW hogan was a draw but in 1999/2000 their attendance sucked. Speaking the Truth Get at Me Bro LOL


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

InstantClassic100 said:


> Orton Killed CM Punks Momentum in Early 2011 that required a once in a decade feud to re-build. He legit killed Christians Career. He puts over Henry, Barrett(FUCKING ROLL UP), And Ziggler(Again Heel Victory), and he should win the rumble and main event Mania? Cena did the same shit with Punk, and MADE Punk. Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost killing a guy, thankfully who has now eclipsed Orton in Cm Punk and Killed Christians Career. I'm Speaking in Orton as the Character.
> 
> Also Cena Draws, Orton Draws Shit ala Smackdown attendance. Orton was given way too many oppurtunities. Orton Marks get at me. I'm speaking truth.


Not this crap again. Orton didn't kill Christian's career, stupid booking did and you have clear proof on the Sheamus "feud" that was booked EVEN WORSE with Christian never having any momentum and getting his ass kicked every time. The only time he ever had any upper-hand was when interfering in matches. And what momentum did CM Punk have anyways? He had taken over a on-life support Nexus and had a feud with Cena that went nowhere and ended with Cena eliminating each member at the Royal Rumble and then suddenly shifted focus on Orton, in which case he was not booked any better. He had lost every single PPV match he had from Over the Limit 2010 until Capital Punishment this year and you're blaming it all on Orton? Fucking hater. You're such a ignorant hater, bringing up a "roll-up" and "heel victory" is your point. So what? Roll-up or pin, it's a victory plus Orton took the clean pin at Survivor Series. What else can you ask for? And what now? You expect Orton to lose every single match clean? That's a little too much for a main eventer. I hope your IQ is not so low that you fail to realize that.

"Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost *killing a guy*" LOLWUT?

And you wanna talk about opportunities, HAHA, talk about the guy in your avatar who went over Rey Mysterio clean in his debut, won the Royal Rumble, had a title match at Wrestlemania, won Money in the Bank, took the title off the super over CM Punk, became a two time WWE Champion, won the feud with John Cena and still couldn't get over for anything more than some stupid cheap heat. Talk about a failure.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Not this crap again. Orton didn't kill Christian's career, stupid booking did and you have clear proof on the Sheamus "feud" that was booked EVEN WORSE with Christian never having any momentum and getting his ass kicked every time. The only time he ever had any upper-hand was when interfering in matches. And what momentum did CM Punk have anyways? He had taken over a on-life support Nexus and had a feud with Cena that went nowhere and ended with Cena eliminating each member at the Royal Rumble and then suddenly shifted focus on Orton, in which case he was not booked any better. He had lost every single PPV match he had from Over the Limit 2010 until Capital Punishment this year and you're blaming it all on Orton? Fucking hater. You're such a ignorant hater, bringing up a "roll-up" and "heel victory" is your point. So what? Roll-up or pin, it's a victory plus Orton took the clean pin at Survivor Series. What else can you ask for? And what now? You expect Orton to lose every single match clean? That's a little too much for a main eventer. I hope your IQ is not so low that you fail to realize that.
> 
> "Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost *killing a guy*" LOLWUT?
> 
> And you wanna talk about opportunities, HAHA, talk about the guy in your avatar who went over Rey Mysterio clean in his debut, won the Royal Rumble, had a title match at Wrestlemania, won Money in the Bank, took the title off the super over CM Punk, became a two time WWE Champion, won the feud with John Cena and still couldn't get over for anything more than some stupid cheap heat. Talk about a failure.


I agree with alot of your points. The people who are saying Orton killed christian's career are butthurt christian marks and blind as a bat orton haters LOL they need to stop whinning about christian it's really quite sad but funny at the same time.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

Oye Chico said:


> Orton winning the Rumble in his hometown, then the WHC title @ WrestleMania on his birthday would be nice. He deserves it as reward for putting over all these guys.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> How about Christian? Huh? Is he going to get rewarded for all the jobs he's been doing which is WAY more?


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

RKO85 said:


> The people who are saying Orton killed christian's career are butthurt christian marks


Instead of using terms inappropriately, come up with a valid argument to prove why someone is wrong. It's easy to insult and then run away.

And for the record, I never blamed Orton for anything. And I'm not butthurt or a mark. So those blanket terms doesn't apply at all for my contributions to this thread.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> How about Christian? Huh? Is he going to get rewarded for all the jobs he's been doing which is WAY more?


Everyone knows Christian jobbed to the point that it ruined his heel run, to the point that he had absolutely no credibility due to creative and booking choices. It's very hard to debate otherwise. No, Vince won't reward him because Vince never protected Christian and now that he has two injuries within a year, they are going to be very cautious in booking him for any major programs. His run as a main eventer is over.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> Instead of using terms inappropriately, come up with a valid argument to prove why someone is wrong. It's easy to insult and then run away.
> 
> And for the record, I never blamed Orton for anything. And I'm not butthurt or a mark. So those blanket terms doesn't apply at all for my contributions to this thread.


Wasn't using terms inappropriately. I am stating My opinion.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

RKO85 said:


> Wasn't using terms inappropriately. I am stating My opinion get over it.


Thanks for proving my point while not providing anything of substance. Predictable but expected.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> Thanks for proving my point while not providing anything of substance. Predictable but expected.


Orton haters and christian marks always blame christian's career not going they want because of Orton and you know it. Ah he buried christian this that and a third. Why don't they cry to creative writing or cry to vince and blame them not Orton. It's quite sad seeing the same thing on these boards. They blame Orton for the common cold if they could. It's pure blind sad hate. That's my point!


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

RKO85 said:


> Orton haters and christian marks always blame christian's career not going they want because of Orton and you know it. Ah he buried christian this that and a third. Why don't they cry to creative writing or cry to vince and blame them not Orton. It's quite sad seeing the same thing on these boards. They blame Orton for the common cold if they could. It's pure blind sad hate. That's my point!


And if you read my posts, you'd know that's exactly what I wrote in regards to what happened to Christian. So I'm not sure why I was pinpointed as a "butthurt Christian mark". That's why I responded to you in the first place.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

RKO85 said:


>


Explain to me how that is a face palm?


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> And if you read my posts, you'd know that's exactly what I wrote in regards to what happened to Christian. So I'm not sure why I was pinpointed as a "butthurt Christian mark". That's why I responded to you in the first place.


I wasn't talking about you I was talking about the christian marks and Orton haters in general. They say the same thing all the time.


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## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

RKO85 said:


> I wasn't talking about you I was talking about the Orton marks in general. They say the same thing all the time and never replies to facts because they don't wanna admit the fact that they just got owned.


Fixed. It's okay, you don't have to thank me. YOU WELCOME.


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## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Fixed. It's okay, you don't have to thank me. YOU WELCOME.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

RKO85 said:


>


Nawh. I'm actually happy to fix a mistake you made.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Nawh. I'm actually happy to fix a mistake you made.


Ya didn't fix anything all ya did was take out a couple of my words. I didn't make a mistake. it's ok to be mad just admit it. U mad cause christian isn't where you want him to be. He'll always be edge's little side kick. He'll always be in edge's shadow.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

InstantClassic100 said:


> *Orton Killed CM Punks Momentum in Early 2011 *that required a once in a decade feud to re-build. He legit killed Christians Career. He puts over Henry, Barrett(FUCKING ROLL UP), And Ziggler(Again Heel Victory), and he should win the rumble and main event Mania? Cena did the same shit with Punk, and MADE Punk. Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost killing a guy, thankfully who has now eclipsed Orton in Cm Punk and Killed Christians Career. I'm Speaking in Orton as the Character.
> 
> Also Cena Draws, Orton Draws Shit ala Smackdown attendance. Orton was given way too many oppurtunities. Orton Marks get at me. I'm speaking truth.


No he did not. 

Punk was leaving the company. There is no reason to job out your top star to a superstar leaving the company.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

RKO85 said:


> Ya didn't fix anything all ya did was take out a couple of my words. I didn't make a mistake. it's ok to be mad just admit it. U mad cause christian isn't where you want him to be. He'll always be edge's little side kick. He'll always be in edge's shadow.


Why should I be mad? My favorite wrestler is doing everything the right way. 
He is actually talented so I don't have to hear others complain about his in-ring or mic skills. 

Yeah, he's not where I want him to be. He's also not where he deserves to be since he's WAY more talented than most guys that are in a better place. But the thing is, I don't favor like Christian because he's a superman who wins almost every match and is around the main event picture at all times. The reason he's my favorite is because of the fact he works really hard just to get to where others easily with looks.

Edge this. Edge that. 
You can say all you want but E&C's success were built by both wrestlers. They formed eachother and helped eachother.
Christian was never Edge's sidekick. Edge was never the leader or any bigger than Christian when they were together.
Things only changed when Vince picked Edge over Christian for looks.
But this still does not point to any way that Christian will always be in Edge's shadow.
Edge was great but when people look at Christian, I don't think they'll look at a guy who tagged along with Edge.
They will look at Christian as the guy who worked so hard as the underdog in the business. They'll look at a guy who FINALLY got his WHC under the most emotional win. People will also look at how talented he is and how much he means to WWE.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> They will look at Christian as the guy who worked so hard as the underdog in the business.


With Christian, they have an employee for life. A decade later he'll still be on roster doing something: manager, commentator, backstage correspondent, something to put others over. He was able to make wrestling his life long career. If that isn't the benchmark for success, I don't know what is. He's not under the shadow of anyone. He's Christian and to say otherwise is focusing on the smaller picture.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Not this crap again. Orton didn't kill Christian's career, stupid booking did and you have clear proof on the Sheamus "feud" that was booked EVEN WORSE with Christian never having any momentum and getting his ass kicked every time. The only time he ever had any upper-hand was when interfering in matches. And what momentum did CM Punk have anyways? He had taken over a on-life support Nexus and had a feud with Cena that went nowhere and ended with Cena eliminating each member at the Royal Rumble and then suddenly shifted focus on Orton, in which case he was not booked any better. He had lost every single PPV match he had from Over the Limit 2010 until Capital Punishment this year and you're blaming it all on Orton? Fucking hater. You're such a ignorant hater, bringing up a "roll-up" and "heel victory" is your point. So what? Roll-up or pin, it's a victory plus Orton took the clean pin at Survivor Series. What else can you ask for? And what now? You expect Orton to lose every single match clean? That's a little too much for a main eventer. I hope your IQ is not so low that you fail to realize that.
> 
> "Orton should be jobbing to people for 6 Months for almost *killing a guy*" LOLWUT?
> 
> And you wanna talk about opportunities, HAHA, talk about the guy in your avatar who went over Rey Mysterio clean in his debut, won the Royal Rumble, had a title match at Wrestlemania, won Money in the Bank, took the title off the super over CM Punk, became a two time WWE Champion, won the feud with John Cena and still couldn't get over for anything more than some stupid cheap heat. Talk about a failure.


This guy is fuming lol

calm down, you cant change people's opinion.


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> So, he made the same mistake after that, but guess what: he's learnt since then and has become clean. He probably got away with it because he was higher up on the card. The question is, what point are you trying to get across? That Orton has backstage pull? Sure he does, he's a higher up and one of the few established main eventers.


The point that I would like to get across is that Orton was not suspended for taking steroids in 2007 after he was originally suspended for taking drugs in 2006. I am glad you got that because it seems like no other Orton supporter does.

Obviously, Orton has some sort of backstage pull. That's it. That's all I wanted to prove.

I'm glad Orton has cleaned his act up, or at least he's appeared to. Good for him.



Choke2Death said:


> *Saying he has more pull than Cena is complete bullshit, though.* Cena could probably ask Vince to give him a blowjob or else he'll quit and Vince would bow down in a second. "but Cena is a bigger draw!!!", yes and that's why he also has more backstage pull than Orton. Seriously, I hear so many ridiculous stuff here, just quit it. Trying to justify Cena NEVER losing clean (not for the last two years, he hasn't) is stupidity at it's finest, however. Yes, I'm not saying let him take clean pins here and there on a regular basis, but it wont hurt his credibility to have lost clean to CM Punk at SummerSlam instead of that stupid "foot on the rope" bullshit that got swept under the rug after HHH's supposed "apology".


Now I'm not sure why you said all this, because this was never my argument... I guess you're arguing this with someone else...?


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

obviously starship said all this to prove that orton has some backstage pull because mst3rulz said something about cena is the only one who has that and orton is kind of an angel blablabla

star ship treid to explain it to him and mst turned it around into something else completely ignoring the quoting function so nobody can see where his argument got beaten


----------



## starship.paint (Sep 27, 2010)

#1Peep4ever said:


> obviously starship said all this to prove that orton has some backstage pull because mst3rulz said something about cena is the only one who has that and orton is kind of an angel blablabla
> 
> star ship treid to explain it to him and mst turned it around into something else completely ignoring the quoting function so nobody can see where his argument got beaten


That's exactly the thing. Every time mst3rulz or Simply Flawless is logically outmatched they change the topic. It's quite devious, really, but I wonder whether they're intelligent enough to be doing this on purpose... I doubt it. Otherwise they would just logically argue for Orton. It's do-able. But they can't.

I was just explaining that Orton wasn't suspended for taking steroids in 2007. Choke2Death understood that. I don't know why those two can't. I'm not sure what the argument turned into.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Congrats Tankofrate, you win the award for dumbest post ever in wrestling board history. You're just mad Orron has a woman and you still have to write your name and number on bathroom walls to try and get some?





Kirk angel said:


> Tankofrate is a girl, i think.


Yes.

and wow, that went completely over your head :lmao


starship.paint said:


> That's exactly the thing. Every time mst3rulz or Simply Flawless is logically outmatched *they change the topic*. It's quite devious, really, but I wonder whether they're intelligent enough to be doing this on purpose... I doubt it. Otherwise they would just logically argue for Orton. It's do-able. But they can't.


I noticed...

Cena was brought up because mst3rulz was trying to make the case that Orton puts over more stars than Cena does. Names like Edge and CM Punk were brought up in Cena's defense. He claimed Cena didn't put them over. It was explained that pinning someone clean isn't the only way to be put over, hell you don't even have to win to be put over. He changed the subject and said Cena gets away with more stuff than Orton does. I brought up his steroid charges. He said no one has a right to judge because everyone makes mistakes.

Which is not the point of what we've been saying at all, and he knows it. He's been proven wrong so he resorts to calling everyone else 'idiot' instead of admitting his bad.


CaptainCharisma said:


> Edge this. Edge that.
> You can say all you want but E&C's success were built by both wrestlers. They formed eachother and helped eachother.
> Christian was never Edge's sidekick. Edge was never the leader or any bigger than Christian when they were together.
> Things only changed when Vince picked Edge over Christian for looks.
> ...


Exactly this, although I don't know how this got into the conversation lol. Christian is doubtless his own man in the WWE, only haters claim otherwise. They're so alike in skills it was literally the fact that Edge was a couple inches taller and a couple pounds heavier that made the difference. Which I find a shame.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

starship.paint said:


> The point that I would like to get across is that Orton was not suspended for taking steroids in 2007 after he was originally suspended for taking drugs in 2006. I am glad you got that because it seems like no other Orton supporter does.
> 
> Obviously, Orton has some sort of backstage pull. That's it. That's all I wanted to prove.
> 
> ...


Right, not everything was directed at you.



dudeme13 said:


> This guy is fuming lol
> 
> calm down, you cant change people's opinion.


It's not very true, with that said, I just hit em where it hurts! An ADR fan complaining about Orton getting "too many opportunities" even though he's over now? LOL! He bounced just like we knew he would.

And funny how the Orton haters here never bring up my name on "Orton marks they own", at least they know where to give themselves any credit.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

You never "owned" anybody on here starship. Get back to reality one day. You bring up crap about Orton that wasnt even a part of the ops thread just to stir it up like you always do. Is Orton a saint? No.Are you? Ha. Is any wrestler? No.

Just like gingermadman you enter these threads about someone you dont like just to start crap up. You bring up stuff from years ago instead of current 'good" stuff Orton has done in his life and career because thats all you have isnt it?


----------



## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

starship.paint said:


> The point that I would like to get across is that Orton was not suspended for taking steroids in 2007 after he was originally suspended for taking drugs in 2006. I am glad you got that because it seems like no other Orton supporter does.
> *
> Obviously, Orton has some sort of backstage pull. That's it. That's all I wanted to prove.*
> 
> ...


I'd argue it's not even backstage pull, but more a case of Vince and the writers not wanting to take him off TV. It has been apparent since 2002 they saw a star in him, and after already suspending him once, they wanted to protect him. Ofcourse that's not fair to the other wrestlers though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#1Peep4ever said:


> obviously starship said all this to prove that orton has some backstage pull because mst3rulz said something about cena is the only one who has that and orton is kind of an angel blablabla
> 
> star ship treid to explain it to him and mst turned it around into something else completely ignoring the quoting function so nobody can see where his argument got beaten


Back to this. I don't remember anybody saying Cena is the only one having backstage pull. It was simply said that he never loses clean even though he has the pull to change that and some idiot came out of nowhere and said "BACKSTAGE PULL!!!!11 Orton marks shudnt talk about backstage pull, he waz not suspended 4 takin steroids!!!" then the argument was suddenly changed. The point starship was trying to make is that Orton has backstage pull and I have no idea who denied it. Saying he has more pull than Cena, though, is bullshit to the extreme.


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

I think it would be nice to see Randy Orton turn heel again, give him back some edge. the only problem is that hes very over with the crowd who seem to love him. I wouldnt mind seeing him turn heel, but hows hes gonna do it is another thing.


----------



## "ImnotCMPunk" (Dec 2, 2011)

beginning of 2011 - What the hell are they doing with orton? He's turned into a superman and wwe won't make him lose to even the devil himself?

November of 2011 - What the hell are they doing with orton? He's being booked as a main eventer who doesn't lose clean to anybody but henry but now they make him take losses to put talent over even if not clean?

There's just no pleasing some people...


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Congrats Tankofrate, you win the award for dumbest post ever in wrestling board history. You're just mad Orron has a woman and you still have to write your name and number on bathroom walls to try and get some?


:lmao

I'm simply pointing out the fact that Randy is _better now_. I don't see the problem here!


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Back to this. I don't remember anybody saying Cena is the only one having backstage pull. It was simply said that he never loses clean even though he has the pull to change that and some idiot came out of nowhere and said "BACKSTAGE PULL!!!!11 Orton marks shudnt talk about backstage pull, he waz not suspended 4 takin steroids!!!" then the argument was suddenly changed. The point starship was trying to make is that Orton has backstage pull and I have no idea who denied it. Saying he has more pull than Cena, though, is bullshit to the extreme.


no one said he has more backstage pull than cena
a few pages back we were talking about cena just doing what the script and vince tell him to do just like orton did/does

mst3rulz said back then when orton feuded with christian that it isnt ortons fault because he is simply doing what creative tells him to but now he is bashing cena for the same and thats how all that started


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#1Peep4ever said:


> no one said he has more backstage pull than cena
> a few pages back we were talking about cena just doing what the script and vince tell him to do just like orton did/does
> 
> mst3rulz said back then when orton feuded with christian that it isnt ortons fault because he is simply doing what creative tells him to but now he is bashing cena for the same and thats how all that started


The difference is, Orton has done it how many times? 1? 2? But Cena has been doing it for almost 7 years. By now, Cena should have told the creative to do something about identical booking of his. His first title reign lasted 9 months and then at Unforgiven 2006, he won the title back from Edge and held it for over a year until he was injured. Tell me, when did Orton have such ridiculous booking? The longest title reign he's ever had was 7 months and that's his first WWE Championship reign back in 2007. (not counting that pointless upping the number reign that lasted for a few minutes before HHH took it and lost it the same night)

People seem to forget that Orton was constantly putting over as a heel before that. He has suddenly been booked dominant in two feuds and people act like he's the second coming of Cena's booking for the past SIX YEARS.


----------



## freeze (Dec 3, 2011)

Its nice he his in midcard losing instead of burying


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

I am someone who is in the gray area. I think orton is being booked fine so there should no complaints. However all the other people saying he buries people or has backstage pull are also off base. I think Orton is one of the few top guys who actually cares about developing new stars.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> You never "owned" anybody on here starship. Get back to reality one day. You bring up crap about Orton that wasnt even a part of the ops thread just to stir it up like you always do. Is Orton a saint? No.Are you? Ha. *Is any wrestler? No.*
> 
> Just like gingermadman you enter these threads about someone you dont like just to start crap up. You bring up stuff from years ago instead of current 'good" stuff Orton has done in his life and career because thats all you have isnt it?


Ha! You say no wrestler is like a saint but it's not like all the wrestlers failed wellness policies.
Christian never failed those tests so you can't put Christian in the same shoes as Orton.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Ha! You say no wrestler is like a saint but it's not like all the wrestlers failed wellness policies.
> Christian never failed those tests so you can't put Christian in the same shoes as Orton.


 Look Christian seems like a good guy and i'm sure he has never done steroids but lets not put him all high and mighty because you are a fan since its not fair to other guys. like i said christian is a good guy but lets be fair since we dont know him personally


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Ha! You say no wrestler is like a saint but it's not like all the wrestlers failed wellness policies.
> Christian never failed those tests so you can't put Christian in the same shoes as Orton.


Seriously, get Christian's dick out of your mouth for a minute. He does seem like a nice guy but he'd probably be the first to tell you that he has his faults. We all got faults, nobody is perfect. It's not all about the wellness policy. Christian might have not done anything wrong in public, but very well has in his private time (whatever that might be).


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> Look Christian seems like a good guy and i'm sure he has never done steroids but lets not put him all high and mighty because you are a fan since its not fair to other guys. like i said christian is a good guy but lets be fair since we dont know him personally


I never put him all high and mighty. 
The poster said Orton is not like a saint and has made mistakes with wellness policy.
Then he/she said that no wrestler is like a saint.
I said Christian never failed. I never said Christian was a saint but said to not put Christian in the same shoes as Orton. 
Not fair to other guys? It's more not fair to say every guy made mistakes with policies when some kept themselves clean.
It's not hard you know? 




Choke2Death said:


> Seriously, get Christian's dick out of your mouth for a minute. He does seem like a nice guy but he'd probably be the first to tell you that he has his faults. We all got faults, nobody is perfect. It's not all about the wellness policy. Christian might have not done anything wrong in public, but very well has in his private time (whatever that might be).


Well we're talking about WELLNESS POLICY so w/e you're talking about has nothing to do with this.
And how is saying that Christian never failed the WP mean my mouth is in Christian's dick?

And maybe he never did anything wrong? Huh? I stated my facts of him never failing the WP. 
You never stated anything that he has done wrong so your arguments are leading nowhere.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> I never put him all high and mighty.
> The poster said Orton is not like a saint and has made mistakes with wellness policy.
> Then he/she said that no wrestler is like a saint.
> I said Christian never failed. I never said Christian was a saint but said to not put Christian in the same shoes as Orton.
> ...


 It's not hard at all actually i wasn't talking about the policies and that shit. No need to respond like a snotty cunt i was actually praising christian but also saying that we dont know these guys personally. It's not that hard you know?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Well we're talking about WELLNESS POLICY so w/e you're talking about has nothing to do with this.
> And how is saying that Christian never failed the WP mean my mouth is in Christian's dick?
> 
> And maybe he never did anything wrong? Huh? I stated my facts of him never failing the WP.
> You never stated anything that he has done wrong so your arguments are leading nowhere.


No, the talk was about the wrestlers in general. Christian might be a nice guy, but he's no saint. Nobody is and that's simple as that. Just because he appears to be nice when in the public eye, doesn't mean he's nice 100% of the time in his private life. The fact that you are even trying to say that Christian might be a perfect saint is just beyond laughable and the statement of not even the blindest mark. I thought people were honest enough to admit that nobody is perfect, but I guess not. Christian is also a human being with his faults, whatever they are.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> It's not hard at all actually i wasn't talking about the policies and that shit. * No need to respond like a snotty cunt* i was actually praising christian but also saying that we dont know these guys personally. *It's not that hard you know?*


Huh? 




Choke2Death said:


> No, the talk was about the wrestlers in general. Christian might be a nice guy, but he's no saint. Nobody is and that's simple as that. Just because he appears to be nice when in the public eye, doesn't mean he's nice 100% of the time in his private life. The fact that you are even trying to say that Christian might be a perfect saint is just beyond laughable and the statement of not even the blindest mark. I thought people were honest enough to admit that nobody is perfect, but I guess not. Christian is also a human being with his faults, whatever they are.


Again, I never said Christian was a perfect saint. 
God damn. Can you get that?
I said to not put Christian in the same shoes as Orton. 
He did nothing that goes against the company rules.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Again, I never said Christian was a perfect saint.
> God damn. Can you get that?
> I said to not put Christian in the same shoes as Orton.
> He did nothing that goes against the company rules.


No, but the discussion was not about what Orton or anyone else have done just within the company rules. It was about them as individuals in general. You suddenly felt the need to bring up Christian cause you are such a mark and you even said "maybe he never did something wrong". That's what it's all about. Again, Orton has made his mistakes in the past and it's highly likely that Christian has, end of discussion.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> No, but the discussion was not about what Orton or anyone else have done just within the company rules. It was about them as individuals in general. You suddenly felt the need to bring up Christian cause you are such a mark and you even said "maybe he never did something wrong". That's what it's all about. Again, Orton has made his mistakes in the past and it's highly likely that Christian has, end of discussion.


^ This.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Basically what i was saying you should be a little nicer/polite. I mean if you are respectable to me than i will be even more respectable to you. However if you are an asshole to me i get pissed. So I dont mind disagreeing on things since that makes a conversation more interesting but its your choice if you want to have a civil discussion or not


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> Basically what i was saying you should be a little nicer/polite. I mean if you are respectable to me than i will be even more respectable to you. However if you are an asshole to me i get pissed. So I dont mind disagreeing on things since that makes a conversation more interesting but its your choice if you want to have a civil discussion or not


I was never trying to be mean. 
When I want people to get my point, I use caps. It's not like I'm yelling or anything.

I could careless but if you want to have a conversation the way I learned in kindergarten, it's fine by me.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

How do you know Captain that Christian hasnt done anything 'against the rules?" You backstage all the time? Or do you actually believe all you read on the 'net and dirtsheets? If its any of those things you need help. Just because his name is Christian dont mean he is one.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> I was never trying to be mean.
> When I want people to get my point, I use caps. It's not like I'm yelling or anything.
> 
> I could careless but if you want to have a conversation the way I learned in kindergarten, it's fine by me.


 I could give a fuck man i have heard worse and have been in many fist fights in my life so its no problem to me. be respectful or dont i dont give a fuck


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> How do you know Captain that Christian hasnt done anything 'against the rules?" You backstage all the time? Or do you actually believe all you read on the 'net and dirtsheets? If its any of those things you need help. Just because his name is Christian dont mean he is one.


If he's done anything against the rules, he would've been punished for it.
Christian is not like Orton or Cena and Vince doesn't need to protect him like that. 
He's not the face of the company. 




JCrusher said:


> I could give a fuck man i have heard worse and have been in many fist fights in my life so its no problem to me. be respectful or dont i dont give a fuck


What does being in fit fights gotta do with this? 
And if you don't give then why bring it up?


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

CaptainCharisma said:


> If he's done anything against the rules, he would've been punished for it.
> Christian is not like Orton or Cena and Vince doesn't need to protect him like that.
> He's not the face of the company.
> 
> ...


 I was trying to bury the hatchet and get back to talking about topic in a civil manner but you dont want to do that for some reason


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Just because his name is Christian dont mean he is one.


Actually he is. TNA did a shoot interview about it.

But that's beside the point. A 3 page debate on how good Christian is when no one knows him personally is a waste of time. Who cares about his private life. He's been smart enough not to get caught violating rules in public.


----------



## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> I was trying to bury the hatchet and get back to talking about topic in a civil manner but you dont want to do that for some reason


I said it's fine by me.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

#1Peep4ever said:


> mst3rulz said back then when orton feuded with christian that it isnt ortons fault because he is simply doing what creative tells him to but now he is bashing cena for the same and thats how all that started


That's because he's constantly kissing Orton's butt and contradicts himself all the time.


----------



## Brethren (Dec 7, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> I know how the biz works way more than you 4 combined and all of you make no sense whatsoever. You used to jump on "SuperOrton" for refusing to job and always blamed him for it but for Cena its a whole different ballgame when he does the same thing just because hes the 'bigger star." Which is the worst b.s excuse Ive ever heard.


You keep talking about cena not putting anyone over clean but what about orton this week? he didnt put over the miz clean at all.

He *had* to be counted out, didnt he?

And Meltzer was right in his raw review, orton cant even act. Orton was suppose to look shocked when he was counted out in his match with the Miz , but instead he looked like an idiot with bad facial expressions. 

Horrible acting!! 

I have no idea how this no talent geek even became one of the top stars in the business. :no::no:


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

If Cena puts over people please oh wise one tell me who hes put over clean the past 3 years then. Just this year Orton has put over CLEAN Henry,Barrett,Christian to name a few and thats over the past 4 months. And you ever think the count out v Miz was done to futher the Barrett storyline?

Gotta love these new rookie wrestling marks.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> If Cena puts over people please oh wise one tell me who hes put over clean the past 3 years then. Just this year Orton has put over CLEAN Henry,Barrett,*Christian* to name a few and thats over the past 4 months. And you ever think the count out v Miz was done to futher the Barrett storyline?
> 
> Gotta love these new rookie wrestling marks.




uhhhmmm? really...????????


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> If Cena puts over people please oh wise one tell me who hes put over clean the past 3 years then. Just this year Orton has put over CLEAN Henry,Barrett,Christian to name a few and thats over the past 4 months. And you ever think the count out v Miz was done to futher the Barrett storyline?
> 
> Gotta love these new rookie wrestling marks.


He put over Henry. We'll have to see on Barrett. But there's no way Christian got put over in his feud. I've written a lot about this already (no need to go into it again), but booking and creative found anyway possible to make sure he wasn't over as a top heel. They clearly steered him into the direction of here's your two titles reigns (both booked as flukes), be happy, now you're going to be turned into a joke and put anyone else over, regardless of the fact that you're now entering in silence.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

He lost to Wade clean at Survivor Series last month and to Christian in a few tag matches earlier this year. And Christian never has been or will be a top heel because he dont have Edge anymore to carry him.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> to Christian in a few tag matches earlier this year..


Orton lost a tag match with R-Truth/Christian to make R-Truth look credible as a heel. It was not done to Christian's benefit. And the announcers (fed by Vince) made sure of it in their analysis. The fact that Christian couldn't pin Orton once by himself, even with any sort of dirty tactic or interference, tells you all you need to know about how much they cared about making Christian look credible as a heel. There was no attempt. Whether it's Edge, Vince, booking, creative, or a host of other issues, we'll never know the reason behind the results.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> He lost to Wade clean at Survivor Series last month and to Christian in a few tag matches earlier this year. And Christian never has been or will be a top heel because he dont have Edge anymore to carry him.


ignorant and stupid comment 

Christian was the most over heel in 05 WITHOUT Edge 
and orton lost in tag matches really? where it was always orton getting distracted and then getting hit by the spear

where did christian end after ortons feud 
5 or 6 losses against one fluke win via dq? 
yeah he put him over huge


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Tell me when Vince ever has cared about pushing Christian as a top heel? Never has,never will. Its not just this feud w/ Orton. Its been that way his whole time in WWF/E. Dont blame Orton for it,blame Vince. Hes always seen him as the D-Von Dudley/Marty Janetty/Robert Gibson of wrestling anyway.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Tell me when Vince ever has cared about pushing Christian as a top heel? Never has,never will. Its not just this feud w/ Orton. Its been that way his whole time in WWF/E. Dont blame Orton for it,blame Vince. Hes always seen him as the D-Von Dudley/Marty Janetty/Robert Gibson of wrestling anyway.


Someone with Christian's credentials doesn't qualify as a Marty Jannetty. Wrestlers would love to have the career Christian has up to this point. 

Again, I never blamed Orton. But a statement was made that Orton put over Christian and I simply pointed out that he wasn't put over at all. In fact, the opposite happened. 

Has Vince never cared about him being a top heel? Probably. But could he be with the correct booking/creative? Absolutely. But at this point in his career, he's much better off a face. He's too old for anyone to really hate him.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Tell me when Vince ever has cared about pushing Christian as a top heel? Never has,never will. Its not just this feud w/ Orton. Its been that way his whole time in WWF/E. Dont blame Orton for it,blame Vince. Hes always seen him as the D-Von Dudley/Marty Janetty/Robert Gibson of wrestling anyway.


you say:



> Just this year Orton has put over CLEAN Henry,Barrett,Christian to name a few;





> He lost to Wade clean at Survivor Series last month and to Christian in a few tag matches earlier this year. And Christian never has been or will be a top heel because he dont have Edge anymore to carry him.


i say:



> ignorant and stupid comment
> 
> Christian was the most over heel in 05 WITHOUT Edge
> and orton lost in tag matches really? where it was always orton getting distracted and then getting hit by the spear
> ...



you say:



> Tell me when Vince ever has cared about pushing Christian as a top heel? Never has,never will. Its not just this feud w/ Orton. Its been that way his whole time in WWF/E. Dont blame Orton for it,blame Vince. Hes always seen him as the D-Von Dudley/Marty Janetty/Robert Gibson of wrestling anyway.



you dont even bother to use the quote button and randomly change the topic 

the vince part actually:






but in the end christian was the one who got himself over as a heel 
the reactions he received were that loud that vince couldnt ignore them anymore
but after he feuded with cena he just ignored him again


as for christians career 
He has won nearly every title in the wwe 
there are only two he never won (us and wwe title)
he is a grand slam and triple crown champ


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> And Christian never has been or will be a top heel because he dont have Edge anymore to carry him.


You're pretty much the only person who believes that.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

The reason I dont use the quote button is because I cant,its shut down for me for some reason. Been that way since I got on here. And really kobra860? Im the only one that believes it huh? 

Ok,explain why about 4 months ago Vince scripted Orton to tell Chrsitian in one of their face to face angles to say "Maybe I can call Edge and have him carry you out here,after all,hes carried you for 16 years." That quote I bet you was all Vince. Every top heel in WWE always has a top of the card feud w/the top face(Cena). Has he ever had a top feud w/ him? No. Says alot right there as to what Vince thinks of him as a top heel.

And Christian was the most over heel in '05? LOL. HHH says hi. Henry was more over as a heel then than Christian was.
And the match where Orton jobbed clean to him was on Raw where right after Orton RKOd Truth and pinned him he turned around into a spear and was pinned clean. And taking a spear from a 150 pound guy and being pinned by it when your 6'4 and 240 says right there what Orton did for him.

Just be glad he had his day in the sun at all. Vince only gave it to him as a present for Edge. Now look where hes been since the Orton feud,jobbing to everyone. Vince knows Christian is near retirement and Orton hasnt even reached his prime yet so why would anyone push Christian over Orton or anyone for that matter? Yeah,Im way off on thinking this. Sure.


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> The reason I dont use the quote button is because I cant,its shut down for me for some reason. Been that way since I got on here. And really kobra860? Im the only one that believes it huh?
> 
> Ok,explain why about 4 months ago Vince scripted Orton to tell Chrsitian in one of their face to face angles to say "Maybe I can call Edge and have him carry you out here,after all,hes carried you for 16 years." That quote I bet you was all Vince. Every top heel in WWE always has a top of the card feud w/the top face(Cena). Has he ever had a top feud w/ him? No. Says alot right there as to what Vince thinks of him as a top heel.


Orton said it because he knew that it would strike a nerve with Christian. Christian's accomplishments as a singles wrestler prove that he wasn't carried by anyone.


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## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

I have always like christian. I always like guys who are good pure wrestlers. also christian plays a good heel. The only problem i have is that some christian fans act like if it wasn't for vince or orton Christian would make a shitload of cash for the company. lets be fair as much as i think christian is a greta talent and even though he has a good loyal following he is not a superstar. thats not a knock on him because not many guya re superstars besides austin,hogan,or the rock


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Yeah,Im sure he did meant every word of it too kobra. Ha. Hes said on many recent interviews hes he loved his matches w/ Christian and how he called them some of his best matches ever and put him over big. You actually think Orton wasnt scripted to say that? LOL.


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> Yeah,Im sure he did meant every word of it too kobra. Ha. Hes said on many recent interviews hes he loved his matches w/ Christian and how he called them some of his best matches ever and put him over big. You actually think Orton wasnt scripted to say that? LOL.


I know that Orton was scripted to say that. How do you know that he meant it? Then again why would he mean it since it was scripted?


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

The radio interviews Orton did where he bragged about Christian wasnt scripted,it was how he really felt about him. The one on tv was and Id bet dollars to donuts it was all Vince that put that line in there.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Vince knows Christian is near retirement and Orton hasnt even reached his prime yet so why would anyone push Christian over Orton or anyone for that matter? Yeah,Im way off on thinking this. Sure.


Christian's retiring? Really? Did someone tell Christian that because for the last year since Edge has retired he's had to fend off retirement rumors. He's clearly said he's going to be with WWE for a long time.

As for putting him over, they turned Christian heel. Someone has to put Christian over to make it stick. If not Orton, someone has to do the job. There's no way that any newly turned heel can gain any momentum without key victories that solidifies their place on the card. But Christian's heel turn was a disaster. The evidence is all there. There was no way that Christian's turn was ever going to be successful with the booking and creative choices that they made. If it turned out well, the audience wouldn't be asking to turn Christian back face. The injury happened at the right time since he was completely directionless and falling down the card as a heel. Now he has an excuse to flip face.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Ok Christian is retiring? I bet this guy can go till he is 45 and still put on entertaining matches and do entertaining promos. 
Secondly Christians singles achievements prove that Vince knows Christian is talented. He is just not seeing him as a Top - Guy.



> I have always like christian. I always like guys who are good pure wrestlers. also christian plays a good heel. The only problem i have is that some christian fans act like if it wasn't for vince or orton Christian would make a shitload of cash for the company. lets be fair as much as i think christian is a greta talent and even though he has a good loyal following he is not a superstar. thats not a knock on him because not many guya re superstars besides austin,hogan,or the rock


Nope. We - Christian Marks - never said that Christian could make shitloads of money.
Not even Orton makes "shitloads" of money. And how do you want to make money with that horrible shirt. Again we never said that. I am going to speak for myself and say that the stupid 2 day reign after that emotional moment at ER was just horrible. Nope i dont think its ortons fault but its Vinces and Bookers. I think Starship some months ago posted some statistics that Christians one month reign had better ratings than ortons. But in the end if you dont want him to even defend his title ONCE neither as heel nor as a face i as a mark will be upset about it. 

All the time i hear. Cena should tell Vince he wants to loose clean blablablabl
Why did not Orton tell Vince that he wants to loose once to Christian so that he isnt a complete pussy. I think Orton can do that. Maybe he did it and maybe i didnt but and that is for mst3rulz: Maybe Cena did it in the last 2 years too and Vince didnt want him to. 

Again mst3rulz if Vince thinks Edge carried Christian his whole career why is Christian Grand Slam and Triple Crown Champion
and btw 99% of the singles titles he won were WITHOUT Edge so stop with that Edge bullshit




> And taking a spear from a 150 pound guy and being pinned by it when your 6'4 and 240 says right there what Orton did for him.


kayfabe wise Christian is 212 and Orton 235 so there is not such a big difference 

and again its kayfabe so its ok to be pinned by a finisher because its a finisher doesnt matter how stupid it is 
and pls tell me what it did for Christian?


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> The radio interviews Orton did where he bragged about Christian wasnt scripted,it was how he really felt about him. The one on tv was and Id bet dollars to donuts it was all Vince that put that line in there.


If Vince put that line in there then that proves that Orton doesn't actually believe that Edge carried Christian. Then again a lot of promos contain opinions that most people don't believe. A perfect example is when The Miz said he was better than Piper and other Hall of Famers because he won a World Title. No one took that seriously just like no one took the "Edge carried you" line seriously.



#1Peep4ever said:


> Again mst3rulz if Vince thinks Edge carried Christian his whole career why is Christian Grand Slam and Triple Crown Champion
> and btw 99% of the singles titles he won were WITHOUT Edge so stop with that Edge bullshit


Exactly!


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## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

mst3rulz said:


> The reason I dont use the quote button is because I cant,its shut down for me for some reason. Been that way since I got on here.


use the bold feature if you cannot quote.

*mst3rulz*


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

How many IC titles has Christian won? Or WWE titles? Or World titles? Or King of the Rings? Or Royal Rumbles? Or Elimination Chambers? In other words,the main titles,not the mid card belts Christian has won in his career. Notice he only gets the mid carder titles while Edge got the bigger ones?

That right there shows where Christian stands next to Edge not just in talent but in Vince's mind. Oh yeah,who usually took all the big bumps in their TLC matches? Edge.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> How many IC titles has Christian won? Or WWE titles? Or World titles? Or King of the Rings? Or Royal Rumbles? Or Elimination Chambers? In other words,the main titles,not the mid card belts Christian has won in his career. Notice he only gets the mid carder titles while Edge got the bigger ones?
> 
> That right there shows where Christian stands next to Edge not just in talent but in Vince's mind. Oh yeah,who usually took all the big bumps in their TLC matches? Edge.


Look, it's the typical post where titles make the person's career. fpalm He's a grand slam champion. Who cares how many times he's done it. By the way, to answer your question, just wikipedia Christian. It has his full run of titles. The fact that he has accomplished that proves that Vince thought well enough of Christian to allow him to do it. It's at the point to compare Edge to Christian is a complete waste of time. They are two different wrestlers who both have accomplished a lot. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

And Christian didn't take big TLC bumps?  Really? Have you watched his matches at all in WWE or TNA? Not sure how to respond to this because it's completely incorrect.


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> How many IC titles has Christian won? Or WWE titles? Or World titles? Or King of the Rings? Or Royal Rumbles? Or Elimination Chambers? In other words,the main titles,not the mid card belts Christian has won in his career. Notice he only gets the mid carder titles while Edge got the bigger ones?
> 
> That right there shows where Christian stands next to Edge not just in talent but in Vince's mind. Oh yeah,who usually took all the big bumps in their TLC matches? Edge.


So I guess Vince didn't think highly of Ted DiBiase and Roddy Piper since they didn't win that many titles. 

Christian took plenty of big bumps too.


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## 1andOnlyDobz! (Jan 3, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> How many IC titles has Christian won? Or WWE titles? Or World titles? Or King of the Rings? Or Royal Rumbles? Or Elimination Chambers? In other words,the main titles,not the mid card belts Christian has won in his career. Notice he only gets the mid carder titles while Edge got the bigger ones?
> 
> That right there shows where Christian stands next to Edge not just in talent but in Vince's mind. Oh yeah,who usually took all the big bumps in their TLC matches? Edge.


Vince saw Edge as a potential top guy but not Christian. However, Christian has been continuously used on WWE in the ring and to put over younger guys. If Vince didn't see how good Christian is in the ring, he wouldn't have done that. He would've likely released him. But he didn't.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> How many IC titles has Christian won? Or WWE titles? Or World titles? Or King of the Rings? Or Royal Rumbles? Or Elimination Chambers? In other words,the main titles,not the mid card belts Christian has won in his career. Notice he only gets the mid carder titles while Edge got the bigger ones?
> 
> That right there shows where Christian stands next to Edge not just in talent but in Vince's mind. Oh yeah,who usually took all the big bumps in their TLC matches? Edge.


Christian won the Light heavyweight Title in his debut match....
6 world titles btw 
and in the end he is a GRAND SLAM CHAMPION 
nuff said


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

You guys are giving mst3rulz way, way too much credit here.


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## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

There is no point in arguing Edge VS Christian. In the end, Edge was more protected by vince & christian paid for leaving WWE with the 5 day reign.


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

No,Edge had more charisma,had the look Vince likes,wasnt 175 pounds and has the body of a supermodel. Compare the titles and accolades he got in WWE to Edge's and it says it all who Vince thought was better and should be pushed. If Christian was worth anything to Vince he'd have tried his best to prevent him from going to TNA in '06.

And please kobra,dont put Christian in the same sentence as true legends like DiBiase and Piper,thats blasphemy to them.


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> No,Edge had more charisma,had the look Vince likes,wasnt 175 pounds and has the body of a supermodel. Compare the titles and accolades he got in WWE to Edge's and it says it all who Vince thought was better and should be pushed. If Christian was worth anything to Vince he'd have tried his best to prevent him from going to TNA in '06.
> 
> And please kobra,dont put Christian in the same sentence as true legends like DiBiase and Piper,thats blasphemy to them.


I never tried to put him in the same league as DiBiase and Piper. I was proving that there are great wrestlers who didn't win a lot of titles. Christian actually has won a bunch of Titles and is a Grand Slam Champion.

Why would Vince be so concerned with Christian back in 05? Unless the person is a top draw and is in the main event, he's not going to care. The reason why Christian wasn't in the main event wasn't because of lack of talent but because the people in the WWE didn't take advantage of Christian's popularity and give him the necessary push.


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## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> If Christian was worth anything to Vince he'd have tried his best to prevent him from going to TNA in '06.


He did. Christian walked away. And Vince was the one who brought Christian back to WWE after his run at TNA. He sought after Christian, not the other way around. If Christian wasn't "worth anything" to Vince he wouldn't be on roster now. This is just basic roster knowledge. Again, I'm not sure what you are getting at as your statements really aren't proving a point.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> He did. Christian walked away. And Vince was the one who brought Christian back to WWE after his run at TNA. He sought after Christian, not the other way around. If Christian wasn't "worth anything" to Vince he wouldn't be on roster now. This is just basic roster knowledge. Again, I'm not sure what you are getting at as your statements really aren't proving a point.


This actually. The time Christian came back he won the ECW title and is now the longest reigning ECW title since WWE took it over.

Christian won Lightweight Title in in his DEBUT MATCH!!!
he won 7 titles with edge and after they separated he won two others in a time where tag team titles mattered and after that continued to win singles titles on his OWN!!!
Vince wanted to keep Christian because he automatically raised the level of his opponent (swagger, zeke etc) but christian wanted more so he left and when his contract in tna ended vince wanted him to come back
seriously it has nothing to do with edge 
sure vince likes edge more thats why he has 11 titles but christian got over and succeeded on his own


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## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

Again,name the singles titles he won. 95% of them have been long gone and meant nothing. The European Title? The Light Heavywight Title? Hardcore Title? Edge was given King of the Ring 2-3 years after he debuted in WWE. Christian got the Light Heavyweight Title on his 1st day. Wow,big difference there. He was never given any of the main titles except for a few IC reigns.

But who cares about Christian anyway? This is about Orton. And to that,the answer to the ops question is it called putting people over and making future opponents for himslf later on in his career. Something you'll never get from,well,you know who.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> No,Edge had more charisma,had the look Vince likes,wasnt 175 pounds and has the body of a supermodel.


Hey now, Christian had a pretty rockin' bod himself.


----------



## 20083 (Mar 16, 2011)

*Randy Orton: What do you think?*








After having watched him ever since his debut, I've found RKO is a very difficult superstar to judge. Somedays, he seems absolutely flawless in the ring, sometimes just sloppy and predictable. Sometimes he seems brilliantly cold and dangerous in promos, but 90% of the times to me he's just monotonous and robotic. He seems to want to put people over sometimes too, like Kofi, Legacy, Barrett (although that could very well be the writers just making him feud with these people), but it seems mostly these people look good during the feud and then once it's over, they go back to wherever their careers were (was worse for STUPID! kofi, poor guy actually took a step back).

Anyway, as hard as it is, let's try and judge this guy based on absolutely NO predispositions besides his promos and matches. No backstage stories we might have heard, or no constant references made by one Mr. Anderson (ANDERSONNNN!).

Putting everything aside and not looking at it in terms of what he's doing right now, what's your OVERALL view on Randy Orton?

Let's give him some numeric ratings, just so that it's easy to compare opinions, I'll start

*Wrestling*: 8/10
*Promos*: 5/10
*Charisma*: 7/10
*Ability to pull off a gimmick*: 8/10
*Look*: 9/10
*Comment*: Obviously it helped that he was born and raised within the business, but I do think he's a very skilled wrestler as well.

All I'm really looking for is some good discussions and a general view of what people feel about him generally, so there's really no need at all to stick to the form I've used above with the ratings, but I think it'd just be easier to compare quantitatively.

Anyway, please share, what do you think about Randy Orton?


----------



## wrestlinn00bz (Feb 22, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

I just realized something. Not many people criticize his wrestling skills. I mean imo hes not a bad wrestler at all. But I just never noticed until I started reading your thread people don't really bash his wrestling. Other then the occasional oh that RKO is so predictable. I think hes pretty good. Has had some decent matches. I loved his Legend Killer Gimmick. Was perfect at the time.


----------



## Edgeheadpeeps (May 4, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

One of the best wrestlers in the business at the moment. He really stepped it up this year. He's quicker and more smoothe in the ring compared to last year when his matches with the likes of Sheamus,Barrett and Miz were really boring and predictable. His promos needs some work though but it fits his gimmick I guess.


----------



## nobracommander (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

I really don't know what to think of him either. He's obviously got talent, but when you think he's going to go on a run he chucks a few bad promos and sloppy matches out which kill his momentum. He's also too much of a dick to ever be pushed as a face, so he'll need to settle for a prominent heel roll.


----------



## Zyklon C (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

As an aside from his wrestling skills. I love the way Randy Orton moves in the ring, his general physicality. 

And his pose is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Crackf1end (Dec 6, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Randy Orton is talented in my opinion - I love the fact that he is now helping to put other stars over, unlike some people. He's incredibly predictable which is a bit of a problem for me, even at MiTB when he hit christian with the RKO on the steel steps I saw that coming the minute christian got on the top rope. His microphone skills and charisma need to improve but I know he is working hard and trying to improve - which he has. He makes a perfect heel in my opinion and I don't really enjoy watching him as a face. Overall I think he is a good superstar who is helping out others while still making himself look good in the process and we need more main eventers like him who don't just hog all the damn spotlight.


----------



## Rustee (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Randy is one of the best at executing moves in the business right now. He rarely makes mistakes, he moves well in the ring, he takes solid bumps and he is consistent, most importantly. I personally think that he's great on the mic, when given a chance to be. Look at his gimmick, and then think about why he might seem monotonous and boring at times. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, outside the ring he seems like an asshole. But yeah that's irrelevant in regards to his wrasslin' ability.

*Wrestling:* 8
*Promos:* 7.5
*Charisma:* 8.5
*Ability to pull off a gimmick:* 8
*Look:* 7
*Comment:* I'd much prefer him to work as a heel rather than a face. It suits his overall style better.


----------



## youssef123 (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

One of the best of all time ! But now, his character is boring as hell !


----------



## Apokolips (Nov 24, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 8/10 (psychology & Selling)
Promos: 5/10 (He can talk but the content is shit at times)
Charisma: 7/10
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 7/10
Look: 10/10
Comment: 100 million times better than his father.

CM Punk turns now:
Wrestling: 8.5/10
Promos: 7/10 (He can be corny sometimes)
Charisma: 4/10
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 7/10
Look: 1/10

Cena Turn:
Wrestling: 5/10
Promos: 6/10
Charisma: 10/10
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 7/10
Look: 8/10
Comment: 10 times better than his father.


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## Astitude (Oct 22, 2011)

snuggiedawg said:


> Orton got kennedy fired, didn't know Orton had power to do that. I always thought that was Vince McMahon but guess I was wrong. Also Orton fucking ruined Kofi's push. You mean the guy that lost to Kofi in 5 seconds at survior series, that guy. Kofis pushed stopped at because wrestlemania time was around the corner.
> 
> Let me ask you this IF Orton was feuding with Wade last year and his push stopped because he hurt him at a houseshow, would you blame Orton. Hell fucking yes... But Cena was and Wade did hurt him at a houseshow and his push stopped. Did Cena ever get blamed once fucking no, but if It was Orton this would just be another reason to hate the guy.
> 
> Until you hate on Orton like that show me a fucking crystal ball on proof of this shit instead of basing it off the fucking internet


There are plenty of Reports that prove orton is a backstage prick unlike Cena. 


You can pretend like he is some fucking saint but people know the truth.

And i wouldnt be surprised if the prick actually wins Next year's royal rumble. I think thats the reason he has been jobbing a lot lately.

9 time world champion = 9 backstage blowjobs to Vince mcmahon.

Orton will retire as the legendary cocksucker.


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## WooWooKidd (Dec 8, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Randy is a great wrestler and he rarely makes mistakes, I preferred him as The Legend Killer though, I find his current gimmick a little bit boring.


----------



## -XERO- (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

He's in my top 15.


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## Klee (Oct 28, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

R.O gets a 7/10 from me!


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## Smoogle (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

well he definitely has the look 10/10 , he's a guy who can walk down the street and everyone would think he's someone even if he wasnt a wrestler


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## Lexa90 (Sep 20, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

I liked him alot when he was in Evolution and the legend killer gimmick. His feud and match with Foley were incredible. I don't like how WWE keeps stuffing him down our throats but I have to give him credit for dragging Useless trash like David Otunga to a watchable match.


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## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 9
Promos: 7
Charisma: 7
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 8
Look: 10 
Comment : The Wrestler of the year and on his way to having one of the greatest careers of all time.


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

mst3rulz said:


> Again,name the singles titles he won. 95% of them have been long gone and meant nothing. The European Title? The Light Heavywight Title? Hardcore Title? Edge was given King of the Ring 2-3 years after he debuted in WWE. Christian got the Light Heavyweight Title on his 1st day. Wow,big difference there. He was never given any of the main titles except for a few IC reigns.
> 
> But who cares about Christian anyway? This is about Orton. And to that,the answer to the ops question is it called putting people over and making future opponents for himslf later on in his career. Something you'll never get from,well,you know who.


LOL

you started this whole bullshit
yeah 3 ic titles and 2 world titles(actually 6 but whatever except you dont think world titles are meaningful)

yeah pretty much everyone gave credit to orton for putting over people and loosing so whats your point?


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

#1Peep4ever said:


> yeah pretty much everyone gave credit to orton for putting over people and loosing so whats your point?


He's always coming up with hypothetical situations to complain about. 

There will always be blind haters and people who dislike wrestlers no matter what they do. Why should anyone waste time worrying about what they will say?


----------



## saxplayer9291 (Sep 21, 2011)

There giving other people a chance to be in the spotlight. and btw when orton was champion people would constantly bitch about him being in the main event picture.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 9/10
Promos: 7/10
Charisma: 8/10
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 10/10
Look: 10/10
Comment: He's the best wrestler today bar living legends like HHH and Rock. He's by far better than everyone else in the company at the moment and is the total package.


----------



## jonoaries (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Orton is excellent and always has been with the exception of 06-09 where he barely did anything of note and looked incredibly out of shape until the Viper/Voices gimmick started. He began picking it up after that and has been consistently great ever since.
With all that said he's overpushed and forced down everyone's throats. Like Edge, H, & Cena he is put in relevant roles even when he is not relevant and he seems to be a "go-to" guy when things aren't going well (which is not exactly bad, but not exactly good either).
His promos were better back when he was allowed to be himself, his look is better (he was a bit pudgy before the Viper/Voices gimmick started) and fans are more behind him than ever. 
In the end he may be the Randy Savage to Cena's Hulk Hogan in 10 years or so. A legend in the making.


----------



## Vårmakos (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Best wrestler in WWE.


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Randy Orton is both one of the most overrated AND most underrated WWE Superstars in the company. I might not like everything about him, but he's definately earned his spot as one of the top guys in the company.


----------



## the modern myth (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

I like him best when he's playing a douchebag, nasty heel.


----------



## Hallop (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 9
Promos: 4
Charisma: 6
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 7
Look: 7
Comment : OVERRATED!!!!!111111


----------



## HeyNightmare (Dec 30, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 8.5 (Sometimes he doesn't use the in-ring psychology that he had a good grasp on in his earlier days)

Promos: 6.5 (He can do just fine on promos, but he hasn't really had a direction since turning face.)

Charisma: 8.5 (The guy stands out, plain and simple. He plays his characters well and that adds to it. If they ever have some storyline or direction for him, he'll have no trouble keeping people invested.)

Ability to pull off a gimmick: 9.5 (For the two that he's had, he's been fantastic. The Legend Killer was more realistic and wasn't exactly a gimmick per se as it was a spin on "arrogant heel." The Viper has been one of a few gimmicks left in an increasingly "realistic" group of characters, and a successful one at that.)

Look: 9 (It pretty much goes along with his charisma. The guy looks like a professional wrestler. He looks like a heavyweight champion.)

Comments: I definitely think his overall work suffered in the time that he should have really been hitting his stride (2006-2009). He seemed to be trying to bulk up and I'm pretty certain he used steroids, but it actually hurt his in ring work. He definitely started to get lazy with his in ring work and even a bit slower at some point. Then he came back leaner and more agile in 2009 or so and was given the McMahon/Triple H feud leading up to Wrestlemania which was huge. He did well up until the actual match at Wrestlemania. Following Taker/Michaels would be insanely hard, but they really seemed off that night. He's done well in the ring since, but I think he's limited now as a face to hitting moves that get huge pops because that's what the product seems to want to inspire with the in ring action. 

Overall he's pretty much set as a hall of famer when he retires. He's a top superstar with a lot of talent even if he or creative never really figure out how to really pull the trigger on him.



And on a side note, to the guy who gave Punk a 7/10 on Ability to pull off a gimmick: Only a 7? I mean I'm not like Punk's biggest fan or anything, but he definitely pulls off his gimmick very well if nothing else.


----------



## mst3rulz (Apr 10, 2011)

I bet you believe in Santa Claus too dont you astitude? He may retire as a legendary cocksucker and Im sure you'll do the same but without the legendary part.


----------



## APEX (May 26, 2011)

Astitude said:


> There are plenty of Reports that prove orton is a backstage prick unlike Cena.
> 
> 
> You can pretend like he is some fucking saint but people know the truth.
> ...


Aww, did Orton beat one of your favourite superstars?


----------



## AxeBomber (Feb 28, 2010)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Orton bores me to death. However, it's undeniable that he is a good wrestler, in terms of executing his moves cleanly and consistently. But I don't think his wrestling stands out though, it's just all very polished. The only thing that ever makes me think "wow" is his dropkick and all the jumping RKO counters he does. He just doesn't seem very charismatic in the ring. Even Cena is more interesting to watch (for me.)

The only time I really enjoyed watching Orton's matches was back in the Evolution days, when they would quick-tag each other... so he'd be in, do his amazing dropkick and some flurry of offense, then you'd get Batista, Flair or Triple H. I enjoyed Batista back then too. Both Orton and Batista were better in Evolution, because you only saw their strengths. They can both be pretty boring when wrestling a singles match, unless they get an opponent with enough charisma for two guys... i.e. Orton vs Hogan


----------



## radiatedrich (Dec 30, 2009)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



the modern myth said:


> I like him best when he's playing a douchebag, nasty heel.


In other words, when he's being himself.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

mst3rulz said:


> I bet you believe in Santa Claus too dont you astitude? He may retire as a legendary cocksucker and Im sure you'll do the same but without the legendary part.


What's with the immature comments?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

One of the most boring wrestlers/characters of all time. Good in-ring skills and storytelling, but he's absolutely annoying and dull.


----------



## Negative Force (Mar 21, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 9.5
Promos: 7
Charisma: 8
Ability to pull off a gimmick: 10
Look: 10
Comment: Legend in the making.


----------



## BK Festivus (Sep 10, 2007)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

Wrestling: 8.5
Promo: 6
Charisma: 8.5
Gimmick: 9
Look: 9.5


----------



## hardcore1982 (Jan 5, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



Ricezilla said:


> Best wrestler in WWE.


Off-topic:You mean sports entertainer, best wrestler would be Daniel Bryan.


----------



## KiNgoFKiNgS23 (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*

one of the 5 best guys in the company.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

It amuses me that Orton is supposed to be a face, but had a promo talking about how he likes to slowly cause suffering in his opponents, and that Ziggler would still suffer, just not for as long.

Um, wow. Good guys don't say stuff like that. Jesus, either give him a class on how to be a face, or turn him heel and be done with it.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

Borias said:


> It amuses me that Orton is supposed to be a face, but had a promo talking about how he likes to slowly cause suffering in his opponents, and that Ziggler would still suffer, just not for as long.
> 
> Um, wow. Good guys don't say stuff like that. Jesus, either give him a class on how to be a face, or turn him heel and be done with it.


 Although i think he is a better heel i dont agree that talking about pain/suffering makes him a bad face. I mean undertaker is the face of the wwe and he talks all the time about that in promos lol


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> Although i think he is a better heel i dont agree that talking about pain/suffering makes him a bad face. I mean undertaker is the face of the wwe and he talks all the time about that in promos lol


That's his gimmick tho. He's the deadman. And he actually tones it down a bit when he's acting the face. Also, Taker generally does that to faces, not to heels. 

To me it just further reinforced that they don't know how to book him as a face, or he doesn't know how to act it. Something should change, dunno what, but something.

I'm not even going to comment much about the end of the match. There were so many facepalm moments I'm not sure where to even begin, other than Ziggler sold being stunned by the RKO for like 4 minutes- a new record?


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

Borias said:


> That's his gimmick tho. He's the deadman. And he actually tones it down a bit when he's acting the face. Also, Taker generally does that to faces, not to heels.
> 
> To me it just further reinforced that they don't know how to book him as a face, or he doesn't know how to act it. Something should change, dunno what, but something.
> 
> I'm not even going to comment much about the end of the match. There were so many facepalm moments I'm not sure where to even begin, other than Ziggler sold being stunned by the RKO for like 4 minutes- a new record?


 I mean I dont see a big deal. i mean what else shoukd he do kiss babies and shit like that lol.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

JCrusher said:


> I mean I dont see a big deal. i mean what else shoukd he do kiss babies and shit like that lol.


No, but you can be intense without crossing that line. If your almost top face can be proud of drawing out torture because he enjoys it, what's left for the heel to do?


----------



## wwestorylines (Dec 10, 2011)

i look at it differently, wwe is using randy orton to promote mid-level superstars. just like when randy orton was mid-level, they used guys like ric, taker and hunter to promote orton.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



hardcore1982 said:


> Off-topic:You mean sports entertainer, best wrestler would be Daniel Bryan.


Is orton not a wrestler?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



dudeme13 said:


> Is orton not a wrestler?


Yes, but his point was that Bryan is a better one.


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



greendayedgehead said:


> Yes, but his point was that Bryan is a better one.


 I think bryan is a good wrestler. However, I think his fans overrate him. Thats not a knock on him since he is still very good. but he is not the wrestling god they say he is. I would say Bryan and orton are two of the better wrestlers in terms of quality and focusing more on wrestling rather than stupid storylines


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Borias said:


> It amuses me that Orton is supposed to be a face, but had a promo talking about how he likes to slowly cause suffering in his opponents, and that Ziggler would still suffer, just not for as long.
> 
> Um, wow. Good guys don't say stuff like that. Jesus, either give him a class on how to be a face, or turn him heel and be done with it.


That's what makes him bearable as a face. Who really wants him to become another Cena by smiling all the time and playing "fair"? Plus the kids also love him despite his sadistic character. I don't like all that "borderline" bullshit. Eddie Guerrero's gimmick was "lie, cheat and steal" and he had that even as a face and people loved him. Orton is a different kind of face, he doesn't have the characteristic of one but he manages to succeed with a heelish character anyways. That's why I like him and don't mind his current character. It keeps his heel-features but this time without being hostile towards the crowd or attacking the good guys.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



JCrusher said:


> I think bryan is a good wrestler. However, I think his fans overrate him. Thats not a knock on him since he is still very good. but he is not the wrestling god they say he is. I would say Bryan and orton are two of the better wrestlers in terms of quality and focusing more on wrestling rather than stupid storylines


no not only his fans

Wrestling Observer Newsletter 

Best Technical Wrestler (2005–2010)
Match of the Year (2007) vs. Takeshi Morishima on August 25
Most Outstanding Wrestler (2006–2010)
Most Outstanding Wrestler of the Decade (2000–2009)
WrestleSlam Awards 

Technical Wrestler of the Year


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Who gives a flying fuck if Orton has/hasn't failed drug tests to be honest thats his private business and we as fans have no need to know unless his actions directly put us in danger. This is what i hate about celeb culture fans act like they have the right to poke a nose into this stuff


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



#1Peep4ever said:


> no not only his fans
> 
> Wrestling Observer Newsletter
> 
> ...


 See the problem is that i am not bashing the guy. i complimented him and said he is one of the top wrestlers. I'm sorry i dont think he is a god he has to show me more but i dont think i am being unfair lol


----------



## Omega_VIK (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: Randy Orton: What do you think?*



#1Peep4ever said:


> no not only his fans
> 
> Wrestling Observer Newsletter
> 
> ...


Gee, I think there is a point as to why he's highly praised. Do you know anyone in WWE currently that is more technical sound than he is?


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

^ Tyson kidd.


----------



## Borias (Apr 3, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Who gives a flying fuck if Orton has/hasn't failed drug tests to be honest thats his private business and we as fans have no need to know unless his actions directly put us in danger. This is what i hate about celeb culture fans act like they have the right to poke a nose into this stuff


Actually, since WWE as a company has a wellness policy, and they are a company that provides entertainment, it is our business. They're telling us that their performers won't be on drugs. So when they *are* on those drugs, there's a consequence. Or they lose face.

It's completely different than say, Stallone taking HGH to bulk up for a movie. It's not illegal, unless you/your company/sport has a rule against it....which WWE does.

Although, an argument could be made that certain drugs would put other performers in danger, which can ruin the product for fans, and cause a loss of revenue. In the end though, it's their policy, and they (roughly) stick to it. Sorry if it bothers you.


----------



## dudeme13 (Oct 10, 2010)

Orton is a great performer.

/thread.


----------



## truk83 (Jul 22, 2009)

Orton is horrid as a "face". I want the old Orton back from 2005-2007. Everything after is a blur.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Simply Flawless said:


> Who gives a flying fuck if Orton has/hasn't failed drug tests to be honest thats his private business and we as fans have no need to know unless his actions directly put us in danger. This is what i hate about celeb culture fans act like they have the right to poke a nose into this stuff


Put us in danger? What are you talking about? Failing a drug test is a pretty big deal since they post it on the website and suspend people. Many pushes and storylines have been derailed because of a failed test.



truk83 said:


> Orton is horrid as a "face". I want the old Orton back from 2005-2007. Everything after is a blur.


Orton's current face run is much better than his face run during Evolution. He's reached a point where the fans will cheer him no matter what.


----------



## Brethren (Dec 7, 2011)

Everyone should read these posts...... ORTON IS A Fucking PRICK IN REAL LIFE. Human being unworthy of the fame and fortune. 

Thanks to *DerrekDickbutta* for these posts. 




> Most of the guys and girls do sleep around. Hell, many of them do and remain wonderful people otherwise (ie: Punk and Cena). Orton just happens to be a sloppy dick (no pun intended) with it. And as I've said, he is just a pretty terrible and embarrassing person in general, which doesn't even have to do with where he sticks his penis, sort of like Batista, except he doesn't go around putting himself out there like Dave. I wish I could go into detail about it, but out of respect for some people, I won't.






> It's ironic that you speak about "respecting privacy" in regards to Randy Orton.
> 
> Anyway, there are many MANY people who work backstage at either brand who are not the wrestlers--runners, catering, camera, makeup, medical, etc.--and most of them have friends and family, as well as the fact that a few people in St. Charles do have internet access, so it's not too far of a cry to say that there are a few people lurking around who may actually be "in the know." But again, what do I know. I'm Perez Hilton, obviously.
> 
> ...





> In fact, if he hadn't decided to package off whatever that crock of shit was in the first disc of his DVD, I wouldn't have felt the need to bring any of it up anyway. Even his best friend John Cena couldn't keep a straight face in that thing. Being as it is, the man decided to make his "private life" a selling point of his product, so it is fair game for people to "speculate" (though as I've said before, there is no speculation on my part).
> 
> As a friend of mine "close" to him has told me, "They really should have interviewed his neighbors," for that DVD of his. If any of you get to drive around the St. Charles area sometime, ask around for the Ortons. He has built QUITE a reputation there.
> 
> As for not caring about the private lives of wrestlers, I'm sure absolutely none of you have ever discussed the misandventures of the Hardy brothers.





> Except that some things he has done in the past could have nearly gotten him arrested? But of course, I am Perez Hilton. What do I know.
> 
> Oh dear, I didn't want to have to bring the Ken Anderson thing up, lol. But he didn't get Ken fired over that botch that most in the back didn't really notice anyway. He and Ken have had issues otherwise, which again, lead back to the fact that Orton is just a very deplorable and careless person. But he is and will remain rich, famous, and regaled, so don't feel too bad for the poor thing.
> 
> ...





> Sorry for dragging this old-ass, dead thread up (I just found it while browsing the web, which is why I just made an account), but wow, it amazes me that some people were actually trying to defend Orton in this.
> 
> I won't say how I know--and I'm sure I will be called a liar/delusional anyway, which is fine--but the guy is a fucking dick in real life. And an amazingly stupid person. It is hilarious and absurd that some people look up to this dipshit. Additionally, if he implied that Kelly Kelly is a whore, then I don't know where that would put HIM. At least she doesn't have the ring on her finger like he does. It's good that he backtracked and "apologized" (at the insistence of management) afterwards because she has a LOT shit on him if she ever decided to be as careless/vindictive as he was to put HIM out there.
> 
> ...


Destroyed Kofi's future & got kennedy fired for nothing. Prick will never be forgiven for those.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brethren said:


> Everyone should read these posts...... ORTON IS A Fucking PRICK IN REAL LIFE. Human being unworthy of the fame and fortune.


Go find something better to do with your time instead of making 1000001 accounts to troll.


----------



## Werlex (Dec 16, 2011)

What does it even matter if orton is a prick in real life? I dont get it! Its none of our business.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> As a friend of mine "close" to him has told me, "They really should have interviewed his neighbors," for that DVD of his. If any of you get to drive around the St. Charles area sometime, ask around for the Ortons. He has built QUITE a reputation there.


:lmao

Who cares what Orton does at home...we all do things like hat in life but hey lets bash Orton for it because we have no lives


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> :lmao
> 
> Who cares what Orton does at home...we all do things like hat in life but hey lets bash Orton for it because we have no lives


 I agree. with these people i know two things, first they have never gotten laid, and two they spend to much time stalking wrestlers who they claim they don't even like lol


----------



## Werlex (Dec 16, 2011)

What i dont understand is why only orton is being shat on? How do you know edge, christian, taker or batista were good guys in real life? 

I think its just jealousy from the butthurt christian marks who cant stand the fact Orton is a top guy but their favorite superstar is a fucking jobber and he is going to retire that way. 

Cry more christian marks. Orton will be a legend when he retires.


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Werlex said:


> What i dont understand is why only orton is being shat on? How do you know edge, christian, taker or batista were good guys in real life?
> 
> I think its just jealousy from the butthurt christian marks who cant stand the fact Orton is a top guy but their favorite superstar is a fucking jobber and he is going to retire that way.
> 
> Cry more christian marks. Orton will be a legend when he retires.


:lmao


you talking about butthurt


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Why are people so mad that Orton acts like a jerk? Hello its HUMAN NATURE! Nobody here with a straight face can claim they are 100% perfect in their life, we all act like jerks hell i can admit i can be a bitch at times. If Orton was an angel 24/7 i'd worry about his mental state. Why is Orton getting bashed for something 7 billion humans act like?


----------



## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Why are people so mad that Orton acts like a jerk? Hello its HUMAN NATURE! Nobody here with a straight face can claim they are 100% perfect in their life, we all act like jerks hell i can admit i can be a bitch at times. If Orton was an angel 24/7 i'd worry about his mental state. Why is Orton getting bashed for something 7 billion humans act like?


because there are people here trolling you very hard


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Simply Flawless said:


> Why are people so mad that Orton acts like a jerk? Hello its HUMAN NATURE! Nobody here with a straight face can claim they are 100% perfect in their life, we all act like jerks hell i can admit i can be a bitch at times. If Orton was an angel 24/7 i'd worry about his mental state. Why is Orton getting bashed for something 7 billion humans act like?


Even if people act like jerks, most people won't affect someone else's job in the process. That's what most people don't like.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> Even if people act like jerks, most people won't affect someone else's job in the process. That's what most people don't like.


If someone else's job can put your health in jeopardy, I don't blame Orton for not keeping quiet.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> Even if people act like jerks, most people won't affect someone else's job in the process. That's what most people don't like.


Again there's no proof Orton got Kennedy fired its DIRTSHEET SPECULATION


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> If someone else's job can put your health in jeopardy, I don't blame Orton for not keeping quiet.


Who are you talking about? If you're saying Kennedy, the video shows that the back drop didn't look dangerous at all. 



Simply Flawless said:


> Again there's no proof Orton got Kennedy fired its DIRTSHEET SPECULATION


It's not speculation. It's pretty well known. Kennedy returned from an injury, was put in the main event, and was fired a few days later. If he was going to be released all along, they wouldn't have put him in the main event. Obviously something happened during his return night that got him fired.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> Who are you talking about? If you're saying Kennedy, the video shows that the back drop didn't look dangerous at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not speculation. It's pretty well known. Kennedy returned from an injury, was put in the main event, and was fired a few days later. If he was going to be released all along, they wouldn't have put him in the main event. Obviously something happened during his return night that got him fired.


Thats not proof it was Orton who got him fired, thats what called circumstantial evidence


----------



## JCrusher (Jul 19, 2011)

Well to be honest didn't kennedy hit eddie with a huge chairshot and a few days later eddie died so maybe they were making sure kennedy didn't kill again


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Simply Flawless said:


> Thats not proof it was Orton who got him fired, thats what called circumstantial evidence


Sure. You keep believing that. Despite the fact we saw Orton visibly mad at Kennedy during the match after the back drop.



JCrusher said:


> Well to be honest didn't kennedy hit eddie with a huge chairshot and a few days later eddie died so maybe they were making sure kennedy didn't kill again


I know that you're not serious but Eddie died because of heart problems that had nothing to do with the chairshot.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> Sure. You keep believing that. Despite the fact we saw Orton visibly mad at Kennedy during the match after the back drop.


Again thats not proof he got the guy fired


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> Who are you talking about? If you're saying Kennedy, the video shows that the back drop didn't look dangerous at all.


Did you take the move or him? You talk about it as if you have the ability to guess how much damage a move does when somebody else takes it. And besides, it was not the first time Kennedy was reckless. He even injured Cena.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Did you take the move or him? You talk about it as if you have the ability to guess how much damage a move does when somebody else takes it. And besides, it was not the first time Kennedy was reckless. He even injured Cena.


You can't really be reckless with a hip toss. It was a freak accident.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Other wrestlers refused to work with Kennedy its bullshit Orton is getting the sole blame for an incident that most likely didnt happen


----------



## Werlex (Dec 16, 2011)

#1Peep4ever said:


> :lmao
> 
> 
> you talking about butthurt


Sad attempt trying to hide butthurt. How many days did you cry like a little girl when orton took the title of christian just 5 days after he wont it?

Yeah lets Laugh it off acting like we dont care. 

You Christian fans are pathetic.



kobra860 said:


> Who are you talking about? If you're saying Kennedy, the video shows that the back drop didn't look dangerous at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not speculation. It's pretty well known. Kennedy returned from an injury, was put in the main event, and was fired a few days later. If he was going to be released all along, they wouldn't have put him in the main event. Obviously something happened during his return night that got him fired.



who gives a fuck about Kennedy or that he got fired? 

Seriously man the fuck up, grow some balls and admit the fact that you guys are shitting on orton just cause he made christian his little bitch.


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Simply Flawless said:


> *Other wrestlers refused to work with Kennedy* its bullshit Orton is getting the sole blame for an incident that most likely didnt happen


Who else said so? Wouldn't you be contradicting yourself if you used dirt sheets as sources when you claim that they're based on speculation?


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

If Punk had been the one Kennedy nearly injured people wouldnt care but cuz its Orton they have to string him up


----------



## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Simply Flawless said:


> If Punk had been the one Kennedy nearly injured people wouldnt care but cuz its Orton they have to string him up


They still wouldn't have wanted Kennedy fired. I don't think Punk would have made a big deal about it during the match and we never would have even known that anything happened.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> You can't really be reckless with a hip toss. It was a freak accident.


No shit it was an accident. But Kennedy didn't cooperate, therefore Cena did the move entirely on his own and he fucked his arm up by lifting Kennedy with one arm.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> They still wouldn't have wanted Kennedy fired. I don't think Punk would have made a big deal about it during the match and we never would have even known that anything happened.


If there wasnt a dirtsheet report making up shit this wouldnt be an issue


----------



## Werlex (Dec 16, 2011)

kobra860 said:


> They still wouldn't have wanted Kennedy fired. *I don't think Punk would have made a big deal about it during the match and we never would have even known that anything happened.*


How do you know thats exactly what would have happened? 
"You think"? Who the fuck are you again?


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## #1Peep4ever (Aug 21, 2011)

Werlex said:


> Sad attempt trying to hide butthurt. How many days did you cry like a little girl when orton took the title of christian just 5 days after he wont it?
> 
> Yeah lets Laugh it off acting like we dont care.
> 
> ...



Well first of all.. Was i angry after Christian lost his title and - btw it was 2 days and not 5-? Yes. Am I still angry cause he got nothing from that feud? Yes. Did I cry? No. Hell why should I? 

Sad attempt to hide butthurt? Coming from someone who insults people because they dont agree with him. 
Sure I am going to be pissed that my favorite wrestler on the current roster lost the belt after more than 15 years working hard to get it
Laugh it off like we dont care? Sure I still do care and I am still pissed but it happened and I cant change it now. Oh BTW I was laughing at you
Grow up and after that try to have a proper discussion with me....


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Why are people so mad that Orton acts like a jerk? Hello its HUMAN NATURE! Nobody here with a straight face can claim they are 100% perfect in their life, we all act like jerks hell i can admit i can be a bitch at times. If Orton was an angel 24/7 i'd worry about his mental state. Why is Orton getting bashed for something 7 billion humans act like?


Says the person who calls CM Punk out for being a cunt that believes in his own hype.


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## kobra860 (Jan 29, 2005)

Werlex said:


> How do you know thats exactly what would have happened?
> "You think"? Who the fuck are you again?


Not too many people besides Orton have pointed out something wrong during a match.


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## Ryu Hayabusa (Feb 1, 2011)

69 pages? damn Mods you might as well sticky this


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## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Says the person who calls CM Punk out for being a cunt that believes in his own hype.


Because its true? I dont go around singling him out making claims that he has no right to be a moody cunt...like some are acting over Orton


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## Negative Force (Mar 21, 2011)

THANK GOD ORTON WON TONIGHT!


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## CaptainCharisma (Aug 9, 2011)

THANK GOD CODY WON TONIGHT. AND CM PUNK.


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