# "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt is Universal Champion



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

I can't believe this just happened! Bray defeated Seth to win the Universal Championship! :mark


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

So does SD have both titles now lol Or will a SD guy be on Raw because he has their world title


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## Foreign Object (Mar 18, 2017)

A good end to the show. The Fiend winning the title on Halloween kind of writes itself.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Match was trash, this red lighting shit is awful, and if these matches are just gonna be a bunch of no selling, then that's lame.

Obvious that they are going to do a third match too, which is no buys.


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## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Credit where it's due. The visual of Bray with the title to the close the PPV on Haloween was great. I have my doubts about Wyatt long term, but I'm just going to enjoy it for now!


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## The Capo (Mar 13, 2017)

Yeah now we have two brocks as champ. I like the fiend but this nothing can keep him down for a 3 count is already tiring.

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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

Hey, look at that.

4 weeks too late, though. His value is still dented.

But I'll give credit to the feint they did in the draft, making us think it wouldn't happen.

Now set up the Fiend vs. Black for Mania and I might even have some interest in the goings-on in this company.


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## BarackYoMama (Mar 26, 2009)

Woe, guess they can't be called house shows anymore LOL. Something huge actually happened.


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## Kaworu (Oct 18, 2019)

But Kratosx23 said this wouldn't happen! How could he be wrong?


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## Efie_G (Nov 16, 2008)

im stoked for bray to be champ again. His ability to get himself over time after time after all the starts and stops. Idk how this will play out with both belts on smackdown. But, im just happy Fiend is champ.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

Guess who was right the whole damn time for the past full month of him winning. Who was the one that told everyone that Bray would be the most over guy on the men's side division in this company? That is right it was me & @Kratosx23 ; but some people doubted us. And our battles and debates over this was worth it!


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

birthday_massacre said:


> So does SD have both titles now lol Or will a SD guy be on Raw because he has their world title


I assume Bray will be that wrestler to be named later from that earlier Bliss cross trade.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Happy Halloween! :dance


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## WWEfan4eva (Feb 23, 2005)

He might end up getting traded to Raw now or Seth wins it back before Survivor Series


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

So I read Becky's Girlfriend looked depressed af there, not in a selling way but legit, looks like they changed plans xDDD


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

He's probably the piece going back for the Bliss and Nikki trade


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## Big Doggy Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.


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## Foreign Object (Mar 18, 2017)

Kaworu said:


> But Kratosx23 said this wouldn't happen! How could he be wrong?


I wonder what he’ll complain about now!?


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Back to the mid card for the geek please. 


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I don’t even have the enthusiasm to be mad. I’m just tired of this now lol.

I hope the Seth haters are happy cos they got what they wanted, don’t want to hear any more complaining :shrug


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## Ray McCarthy (Jun 9, 2018)

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Guess who was right the whole damn time for the past full month of him winning. Who was the one that told everyone that Bray would be the most over guy on the men's side division in this company? That is right it was me & @Kratosx23 ; but some people doubted us. And our battles and debates over this was worth it!


I’m pretty sure Kratosx23 has spent the last month crying and insisting that Bray Wyatt would never be champion after Hell in a Cell because the ‘moment has passed’.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Bray Wyatt emerging like nothing happened after that landing and putting Seth Rollins into the Mandible Claw was a great Halloween visual.


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## roblewis87 (Oct 18, 2016)

I think tonight actually did a lot to repair the mess they made of HIAC, the match was spamming finishers again but was vastly better than the HIAC match. Luckily Survivor Series means we should get a break from Rollins as he will probably be in the SS match. However, I fully expect Rollins to be back on the Fiend by TLC or Rumble.


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## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Foreign Object said:


> I wonder what he’ll complain about now!?


Well Asuka isn't Raw Women's Champion...yet. :asuka


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

Foreign Object said:


> I wonder what he’ll complain about now!?



Asuka.

Until she beats Becky that is


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## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

And what now?

RAW has not belt... Or will Bray drop it next Monday ala Kane


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## Bland (Feb 16, 2016)

Awesome but I'm guessing Bray will now be traded to Raw and Rey Mysterio to Smackdown as well. On paper, they can say that it was Rey, Alexa and Nikki Cross for Bray , since they did already trade Bliss & Cross and said that it would be for future trading. 

Or, they do Raw Superstar Vs Bray at Survivor Series and have Rey (still Raw) vs Lesnar so technically 2 Raw vs Smackdown matches. Cole can defend against a Raw & Smackdown superstar to in a Triple Threat.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Mox Girl said:


> I don’t even have the enthusiasm to be mad. I’m just tired of this now lol.
> 
> I hope the Seth haters are happy cos they got what they wanted, don’t want to hear any more complaining :shrug


There's gonna be The Fiend complaining, the red light thing it's shit and his matches are BAD, I give it two months for people hating on him .


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Just draft Brock to Raw, please :lol


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Foreign Object said:


> I wonder what he’ll complain about now!?


Samoa Joe, which I was already doing.

Anyway, yeah, thrilled to be wrong, for once. Usually I'm quite sad to be wrong, but Vince finally woke up for once. It hurt him that he didn't win at HIAC, but better late than never.

FINALLY, just once, I can use this video in an unironic, sincere manner


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## The Phantom (Jan 12, 2018)

Wait, what?! :mark


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

I just hope that Bray Wyatt is getting moved to RAW now. If this is the payoff to that Bliss and Cross "trade" then great. Get him far away from Brock Lesnar and have someone different at the top of RAW for the first time in YEARS.

I'm not one that has a problem with either guy. RAW just needs something fresh and The Fiend is hot right now. Rollins can use the opportunity of going away and giving the audience that hate on him time to forget about him for awhile. We will probably get a rematch at Survivor Series though.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Brodus Clay said:


> There's gonna be The Fiend complaining, the red light thing it's shit and his matches are BAD, I give it two months for people hating on him .




I’d take a Mojo run to get the belt off Seth. Don’t care who they gave it too but sure glad it’s off him. 


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## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

How pissed are Fox going to be they lost Bray on a technicality :HA


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## Typical Cena Fan (May 18, 2016)

My favourite wrestler wins this makes me smile widely. Don’t understand why people are complaining as a heel was booked Bork level strong and beat the most hated guy on the roster


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## Foreign Object (Mar 18, 2017)

Ray McCarthy said:


> I’m pretty sure Kratosx23 has spent the last month crying like a ****** and insisting that Bray Wyatt would never be champion after Hell in a Cell because the ‘moment has passed’.


That does sound familiar. I vaguely remember a tantrum immediately after Hell in a Cell where he insisted that Seth Rollins wouldn’t be dropping the title until after he’d lost to Brock at Survivor Series, and that he would certainly never drop the title to Bray Wyatt. Weird. Maybe his crystal ball is broken.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

So... Bray/Brock at Survivor Series? :mark #HolyFuck

However, since it's going to be SmackDown vs. Raw vs. NXT, I can see them doing a triple threat match and have Bray pin the NXT Champion.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Mox Girl said:


> I don’t even have the enthusiasm to be mad. I’m just tired of this now lol.
> 
> I hope the Seth haters are happy cos they got what they wanted, don’t want to hear any more complaining :shrug


I know you dont wanna hear it but this is the best thing that could've happened to Seth, he needs time away from the main event to recharge his character


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## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

Way too soon.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Brodus Clay said:


> There's gonna be The Fiend complaining, the red light thing it's shit and his matches are BAD, I give it two months for people hating on him .


I think Vince is booking this specifically to make it as obnoxious as possible to kill off Bray, he realized if he just buried him they fans will hijack shows but by doing it this way the fans will turn on him on their own.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Hahahahaha god this made my Halloween. Thank you Wyatt. 


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## Cyberdemon (Aug 29, 2019)

It's great that Bray won the Universal Championship, but that means nothing when the WWE should have booked him to win at HIAC in the first place. This is basically WWE's apology to the fans for pissing their fans off. I'm not buying into his win because it's a desperate attempt to get viewers who aren't watching their programs, to welcome them back and screwing the fans' intelligence once more.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Cyberdemon said:


> It's great that Bray won the Universal Championship, but that means nothing when the WWE should have booked him to win at HIAC in the first place. This is basically WWE's apology to the fans for pissing their fans off. I'm not buying into his win because it's a desperate attempt to get viewers who aren't watching their programs, to welcome them back and screwing the fans' intelligence once more.


Would you have preferred he be fucked again? I wouldn't. Yes, it's late, but at least they recognized their mistake. More of this please.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Kratosx23 said:


> Would you have preferred he be fucked again? I wouldn't. Yes, it's late, but at least they recognized their mistake. More of this please.




At least you get this. No idea how people can bitch about this. It’d be another month of fuck Rollins talk on here if he won again. I’ll take winning in Arabia. No more Rollins threads or talk for a while will make this a much better place. Forums been so boring lately. 


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

Bray confirmed to lose in the rematch at Survivor Series. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I think Vince is booking this specifically to make it as obnoxious as possible to kill off Bray, he realized if he just buried him they fans will hijack shows but by doing it this way the fans will turn on him on their own.


Which is kinda like how he books every champion, to be honest.

I mean, Rollins seems an entitled prick, but the writing of his character has been cancerous to say the least; Kofi was also written like shit.

I may sound like a tinfoil hat wearing geek, but it's becoming more obvious to me that they're now putting titles on fan favourites and book/write them like shit so that they can say "It's not our fault you like untalented pieces of shit".

Edit. By the way, I don't give a damn about everything, I'm just glad he won. Let the hate flow at a later date.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

bradatar said:


> Hahahahaha god this made my Halloween. Thank you Wyatt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like this years Halloween has been perfect after all. I would have to thank Vince McMahon for the second time this year for actually pulling the right trigger. Bray Wyatt for thinking of a cool gimmick and got himself over as the man in this company. Finally winning the big one. I am happy and I will be celebrating. :lol


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## Asuka842 (Jul 19, 2016)

Oh boy if they do the Raw vs. SD vs. NXT for top champions, then someone fetch a priest because poor Adam Cole is gonna die.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Seth was done as champion.

As for Bray, dudes matches are wrestle crap bad.

Let's see how long he goes before fans tire of him.

You can only no sell another guy's offense for so long before fans become numb to it and revolt.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

bradatar said:


> At least you get this. No idea how people can bitch about this. It’d be another month of fuck Rollins talk on here if he won again. I’ll take winning in Arabia. No more Rollins threads or talk for a while will make this a much better place. Forums been so boring lately.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People just like to complain, it's one of those things. See, I've always said, you give me what I want, I'll be happy. People keep saying "oh, you can't ever be happy, you just love to complain, you get off on complaining.". I can't be happy because they never, ever, ever give me what I want. Give me what I want, to quote Big Dave. I've been quite happy with Asuka since her heel turn, and now I'm happy with Bray Wyatt. Am I as happy as I would've been if he had won at HIAC? No, because we had to go through that SHIT, and we still don't know if this was always the plan or if this was an audible, and he did take a momentum hit from that bad booking, but he's back, at least. Savor it while it lasts. I wouldn't be surprised if they just put him and Seth in a cage on Raw and Seth crawls out the fucking door.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Kishido said:


> And what now?
> 
> RAW has not belt... Or will Bray drop it next Monday ala Kane


Brand split dies after 2 weeks or AJ is the top champion on Raw.


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## Asuka842 (Jul 19, 2016)

Clearly the only one who can topple The Fiend is Aleister Black, hopefully.

Also remember how SD got Alexa and Nikki in exchange for "future considerations," hmm.


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## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes it is a tad late, but better late than never :mark:


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## Werner Heizenberg (Apr 3, 2017)

Kratosx23 said:


> People just like to complain, it's one of those things. See, I've always said, you give me what I want, I'll be happy. People keep saying "oh, you can't ever be happy, you just love to complain, you get off on complaining.". I can't be happy because they never, ever, ever give me what I want. Give me what I want, to quote Big Dave. I've been quite happy with Asuka since her heel turn, and now I'm happy with Bray Wyatt. Am I as happy as I would've been if he had won at HIAC? No, because we had to go through that SHIT, and we still don't know if this was always the plan or if this was an audible, and he did take a momentum hit from that bad booking, but he's back, at least. Savor it while it lasts. I wouldn't be surprised if they just put him and Seth in a cage on Raw and Seth crawls out the fucking door.


See, Kratos?I told you there way no way they could continue on their way with Seth after the disaster that was HIAC.And there was no way he was beating Bray again.


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## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

wens3 My nightmare is over. 

Long live Brat Wyatt


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

I know it's not going to happen, but they should keep Bray and the UC on SD.

Bring back the World Heavyweight Championship to Raw and hold a tournament for it.

That's one way to get ratings up.

As for Rollins fans, they must feel relieved as it will be Bray who will take those big time Ls and sub 2m Raw ratings under his name :heston


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Keep both on SD

:berried raw so deep


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

4 weeks after I and thousands of others have already canceled the network lol

Guess I have a reason to pirate this show now


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> Keep both on SD
> 
> :berried raw so deep


We know it's not going to happen, this company is predictable.

I hope they do because the UC is one of the worst world championships in history.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

I want the same energy from those Rollins haters who were blaming him for Raws ratings tanking next week when Raw goes against the Cowboys and Giants :lol


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)




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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Ace said:


> As for Rollins fans, they must feel relieved as it will be Bray who will take those big time Ls and sub 2m Raw ratings under his name :heston


LOL no, ratings will suddenly not only be blamed on one person, it’ll be the whole roster and creative :lol

I would just hope the bitching about Seth will ease but I doubt it.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Congrats to Bray Wyatt for finally winning the Universal title :clap

I didn't think they'd actually pull the trigger on him today, but I'm happy that he did 

Honestly, I just wish they avoided that fiasco earlier this month at Hell in a Cell :lol

I just hope for the best for the future of both men after today. I'm glad they made the right decision by letting Wyatt get the win here


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Who the heck rated this thread with "terrible"? Here's some "excellent" from me!


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## Efie_G (Nov 16, 2008)

Regardless of when the rematch is, Seth cannot win. They need to keep the belt on Bray for a little bit. Possibly even going into WM with it next year and beyond. Idk how they book the loss either with him no selling almost everything. (Id be curious to see Brock Vs Fiend) I hope they get rid of the red lighting, i understand what they're doing with it. But it makes it hard to watch the match.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Mox Girl said:


> LOL no, ratings will suddenly not only be blamed on one person, it’ll be the whole roster and creative :lol
> 
> I would just hope the bitching about Seth will ease but I doubt it.


The funny thing is Seth lost the title just before Raw is going to start doing sub 2m ratings.

I'm already lining up to take my shot at Bray :lol

Cowboys and Giants are going to kill Raw next week.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)




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## PresidentGasman (Mar 25, 2019)

Thank God, I hated Soyth Lollins, worst champ of all time, I imagine Bray will be on both RAW and SmackDown espically while Lesnar takes his vacation after Survivor Series.


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## IamMark (Jan 7, 2014)

Who's gonna beat him now? If 8-9-10 of the most protected finish up until a few weeks ago won't work...


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## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

Mox Girl said:


> LOL no, ratings will suddenly not only be blamed on one person, it’ll be the whole roster and creative :lol
> 
> I would just hope the bitching about Seth will ease but I doubt it.


If Seth didn't start to shove his foot into his mouth to begin with and then try to get it all the way up to the knee there would be no backlash on Seth, but he keeps doing it, nonstop, no self-awareness whatsoever. That along with people being fickle and not being able to separate his wrestling persona from who he is in real life makes people piss all over even great things Seth is doing in wrestling and scrutinizing everything he does or says.

People blame him for the booking of the feud with the fiend which just shows the same level of self-awareness as Seth himself from his haters, it's an endless ironic circle of idiocy with pot calling the kettle black and vice versa to the tiresome and endless


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## #BestForBusiness (Jun 18, 2015)

I wonder if it was WWE's plan to hold out for Halloween to set the mood, or they only did it because of all the fan backlash from HIAC?


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Bray should definitely keep the belt for months and even retain at WrestleMania.

Bray/KO or Bray/Joe (if Bray is going to Raw)
Bray/Bryan or Bray/Braun (if Bray is staying on SmackDown)

He can lose it at SummerSlam.


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## PresidentGasman (Mar 25, 2019)

MikeRo said:


> Who's gonna beat him now? If 8-9-10 of the most protected finish up until a few weeks ago won't work...


Daniel Bryan maybe ? he could win the rumble and challenge Wyatt while Vince can do Roman/Cain vs Lesnar for the WWE Title to satisfy his fetish while keeping the fans happy


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

I mean too little too late. Well done on doing what should have happened last month but still too late for me to really care. Happy for Kratos though


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## Psychosocial (Jul 13, 2018)

I have a feeling Vince called an audible for Bray to win after getting a transcript of what Rollins said on Graves' podcast. Vince doesn't like emotional weaklings to lead his company. Wouldn't be surprised if Seth's main event career is over now. Good riddance if it is.


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## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

MikeRo said:


> Who's gonna beat him now? If 8-9-10 of the most protected finish up until a few weeks ago won't work...


Brock gonna beat him with one F5 or Kimura :heston


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ace said:


> The funny thing is Seth lost the title just before Raw is going to start doing sub 2m ratings.
> 
> I'm already lining up to take my shot at Bray :lol
> 
> Cowboys and Giants are going to kill Raw next week.


Dude, they probably put the belt on Bray because the ratings would be even WORSE under Seth. Raw is gonna get killed no matter what because it takes time to heal your product from all the damage you've done to it, but Bray Wyatt will stabilize it better than Seth. Even if Raw does like 1.4 million viewers, if it were Seth and not Bray, it would be a 1.1. The difference between the audiences interest in the characters is that steep.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Kratosx23 said:


> Dude, they probably put the belt on Bray because the ratings would be even WORSE under Seth. Raw is gonna get killed no matter what because it takes time to heal your product from all the damage you've done to it, but Bray Wyatt will stabilize it better than Seth. Even if Raw does like 1.4 million viewers, if it were Seth and not Bray, it would be a 1.1. The difference between the audiences interest in the characters is that steep.


Either way, it's going to come under Bray's reign :ha

Also you're wrong, Bray's quarterly ratings aren't great.

The last fun house he had on Raw didn't hold viewers well for the third hr despite the advertising in advance and during the show, and they actually lost viewers for the segment.


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

Honestly, I'm getting the strange sense Bray could possibly drop it or vacate it in a few weeks. Then again, the Survivor Series match looks more interesting with him in it than Seth.


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## IamMark (Jan 7, 2014)

Balor fan said:


> Brock gonna beat him with one F5 or Kimura :heston


lol

well, the guy in your av would be nice. He's in NXT but the Demon could face Bray. :shrug


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## Mongstyle (Oct 8, 2017)

Hopefully they trade Bray to Raw. With Bray being Universal Champion, it's a good time to trade him. Bring Rey and Joe to Smackdown and send Bray to Raw with the Universal title.

This gimmick has a lot of potential, and Bray can easily sell it, but the stupid red lights and overbooked matches with 10 finishers and hammer shots basically make him a walking disaster. I was hoping they'd book him like Brock during his beast phase but they've gone to such ridiculous lengths that nothing good is going to come from dudes feuding with him. So send him to Raw and keep him away from Smackdown's top guys. He's not needed on Smackdown anyway.

And lol at Seth Floppins. Easily the biggest disaster of a top champion Raw has ever had. Not only did ratings, attendance, and Network growth fall, he couldn't even keep the fans on his side. Dude failed at every level. Even with the title off him, there's no way this ship is being course corrected. Raw just looks mostly shit in the upper card and it's gonna get worse.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Ace said:


> I want the same energy from those Rollins haters who were blaming him for Raws ratings tanking next week when Raw goes against the Cowboys and Giants :lol




I’ll be there when he’s still the focus of the show. If I even watch as they’ve finally turned me off to the point I didn’t watch last week. 


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Mongstyle said:


> Hopefully they trade Bray to Raw. With Bray being Universal Champion, it's a good time to trade him. Bring Rey and Joe to Smackdown and send Bray to Raw with the Universal title.
> 
> This gimmick has a lot of potential, and Bray can easily sell it, but the stupid red lights and overbooked matches with 10 finishers and hammer shots basically make him a walking disaster. I was hoping they'd book him like Brock during his beast phase but they've gone to such ridiculous lengths that nothing good is going to come from dudes feuding with him. So send him to Raw and keep him away from Smackdown's top guys. He's not needed on Smackdown anyway.


The gimmick has no potential in the way they're portraying it currently.

Fans either get bored of him no selling and beating fan favorites or he dies the moment he gets beaten.

There is no long term staying power for his gimmick.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Kratosx23 said:


> People just like to complain, it's one of those things. See, I've always said, you give me what I want, I'll be happy. People keep saying "oh, you can't ever be happy, you just love to complain, you get off on complaining.". I can't be happy because they never, ever, ever give me what I want. Give me what I want, to quote Big Dave. I've been quite happy with Asuka since her heel turn, and now I'm happy with Bray Wyatt. Am I as happy as I would've been if he had won at HIAC? No, because we had to go through that SHIT, and we still don't know if this was always the plan or if this was an audible, and he did take a momentum hit from that bad booking, but he's back, at least. Savor it while it lasts. I wouldn't be surprised if they just put him and Seth in a cage on Raw and Seth crawls out the fucking door.




I knew people would give you shit but I’ve agreed with you for the most part. I’m happy too. Booking is starting to be decent again. Hopefully they keep it up. 


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

WWE actually listening to the fans?...WHAT?!

Lol watch him just lose it to Seth on Raw or next ppv. Seems like a cheap rating pop tbh.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ace said:


> Either way, it's going to come under Bray's reign :ha
> 
> Also you're wrong, Bray's quarterly ratings aren't great.
> 
> The last fun house he had on Raw didn't hold viewers well for the third hr despite the advertising in advance and during the show, and they actually lost viewers for the segment.


Honestly, I don't care. I just want him pushed, that's it. If people make fun of him for bad ratings, whatever. You take your bad ratings and I'll take the push. 

I don't think one segment or even a few losing viewers necessarily means that person in particular can't move numbers because we know the exact same people can gain and lose viewers. Even Seth has gained viewers for some segments. I do believe, though, that fans would rather have Bray as the champion than Seth and that's bared out by the response to the two characters.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Tuesday cannot come soon enough.

Specialist in failure will have another big time L to his name.

An all time record low Raw rating in his very first week as world champion wens3


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## Mongstyle (Oct 8, 2017)

Ace said:


> The gimmick has no potential in the way they're portraying it currently.
> 
> Fans either get bored of him no selling and beating fan favorites or he dies the moment he gets beaten.
> 
> There is no long term staying power for his gimmick.


That's my point.

The gimmick has potential, but they've made him into a disaster. All you needed to do with this dude was book him like Brock was back in the day. Basically a monster character who can be hurt and put down, but it takes a lot to do it.

Instead this dude is basically a cartoon now. HIAC was the first big misstep with the finisher spam and overkill. And we've now reached the point of no return. Instead of this being a thing they could've run for a good couple years, his shelf life is now limited. There's no longevity here. He's going to be a heat sink for any guys who feud against him soon enough, and once he does go down, it's basically over for him. And the red lights automatically make his matches worse.

Hence why I want him traded to Raw. Raw's upper card is weak as hell anyway so it's whatever if he starts burying dudes there. I don't want him shitting up Smackdown.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

This has actually worked out brilliantly for me.

I can laugh and rip on the WWE and Bray at the same time every Tuesdays now :lmao

With Seth, I knew he was booked like a geek but I was indifferent to him so never went after him. I actually felt sorry for the guy.

Seth fans who had to put up with their favorite getting abused every week atleast have that to look forward to as well.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Ace mad that it wasnt aj styles beating seth in another snoozefest


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> Ace mad that it wasnt aj styles beating seth in another snoozefest


 what does AJ Styles have to do with Bray being a specialist in failure?

I ripped on Mumbo Jumbo Wyatt when AJ was world champion and on different brands.

With all due respect, dude is trash.


----------



## Zapato (Jun 7, 2015)

I’m giddy like a teenage schoolgirl. The only thing that would have been better is if The Fiend had literally burned down Rollins in a dumpster fire and ridden us of him for a few months at least. What annoys me is why didn’t they just give him the title at HITC, this must have been one of those last minute changes? But who cares, he got it in the end and he gets a segment with Miz tomorrow to add some more intrigue. I know WWE are going to WWE this up and wreck it, but meh, I did not expect that and got exactly what I wanted and more.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

I love how Bray hasn't won any mid-card title, he won both world titles and both tag team titles each once. He captured the SmackDown titles first (tag team title in 2016 and world title in 2017) and then the Raw titles (tag team title in 2018 and world title in 2019).


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Knowing WWE they'll probably bang the title back on Rollins and turn him heel in the process.

Bray winning the title doesn't make a massive difference, you'll get the instant positive reaction from the WWE fanbase but nothing will really change, weekly shows will still remain boring.

The type of gimmick Bray has will only last so long, can they keep him fresh enough for him to have a long run? I doubt it.


----------



## Mongstyle (Oct 8, 2017)

The first thing that would go a long way in helping The Fiend is removing the fucking red lights. It's overproduced and looks like shit. And start booking his matches more carefully where you're not relying on him no selling finishers and big impact moves like sledgehammers to the damn head. It's unnecessary.

I enjoy The Fiend gimmick, and it's bizarre as hell they're just setting themselves up for failure. You have to think long-term. You can't run something for a year. You have to try and get a good 3 or so years out of this thing and it's possible if they're smarter about how they move forward. Just make him like Super Kane from 1998 (but with actual success). There's your template. It's pretty simple and works well.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Alright_Mate said:


> The type of gimmick Bray has will only last so long, can they keep him fresh enough for him to have a long run? I doubt it.


I keep hearing "this gimmick has a shelf life", "it won't last long", etc. If that's the case.....shouldn't you get everything you can out of it while you can? Supposing you buy into this idea that the gimmick has a very short shelf life, that's not a valid criticism of not pushing it to the top. If anything, it's the exact opposite, they should be pushing it before it expires.

I don't even buy the idea that the gimmick has to have any sort of shelf life, as long as Bray himself is allowed to be creative with it, and he's not screwed over, but even if that's true, you've got to make it count while you can.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Ace said:


> what does AJ Styles have to do with Bray being a specialist in failure?
> 
> I ripped on Mumbo Jumbo Wyatt when AJ was world champion and on different brands.
> 
> With all due respect, dude is trash.


With all due respect you're trying too hard here


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

Super Seth lost. 

:YES :fuckyeah :rusevyes


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Kratosx23 said:


> I keep hearing "this gimmick has a shelf life", "it won't last long", etc. If that's the case.....shouldn't you get everything you can out of it while you can? Supposing you buy into this idea that the gimmick has a very short shelf life, that's not a valid criticism of not pushing it to the top.


If the 24/7 title is still around, he'll be chasing after it with Mojo Rawley and the other geeks by next year.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi (Feb 14, 2019)

Lol ace hates bray.


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

:mark :mark :mark

Easily the best Saudi show. Wyatt is an international superstar!


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ace said:


> If the 24/7 title is still around, he'll be chasing after it with Mojo Rawley and the other geeks by next year.


Yeah, and then the year after that, he'll re-invent himself again and become the most over character in the business for a 3'rd time and be back as the world champion. 

Sorry, Ace, he's too good to be kept down. You can cry all you want, but you better learn to accept that he's not going anywhere, even if he's de-pushed. He's already proven that doesn't stick.


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

At this point you kinda need kryptonite, make a bullet put it in a gun and shot the fiend and hope he stays down for a 3 count. They have kinda fucked themselves with the booking here unless he just decimates everyone for a long, long time and even then how exactly is someone gonna be able to beat him? He was electrocuted and set on fire yet had no visual damage done to him. I am kinda wondering if they have ANY plan at all or if this is just a panic move because of HIAC. For now I am just happy he won, but I am not optimistic going forward, this is a hard situation to unfuck


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Kratosx23 said:


> Yeah, and then the year after that, he'll re-invent himself again and become the most over character in the business for a 3'rd time and be back as the world champion.
> 
> Sorry, Ace, he's too good to be kept down. You can cry all you want, but you better learn to accept that he's not going anywhere, even if he's de-pushed. He's already proven that doesn't stick.


Yeah, and we've already seen the dude get over for 2 mins, fuck up and get pushed down the card for years.

This time will be no different, hopefully this time is the last time and the company cuts their losses. I hear TNA is hiring.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Come on, Ace, you're a cool dude but you hate all my favorites. GODDAMN, PAL!


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Kratosx23 said:


> I keep hearing "this gimmick has a shelf life", "it won't last long", etc. If that's the case.....shouldn't you get everything you can out of it while you can? Supposing you buy into this idea that the gimmick has a very short shelf life, that's not a valid criticism of not pushing it to the top. If anything, it's the exact opposite, they should be pushing it before it expires.
> 
> I don't even buy the idea that the gimmick has to have any sort of shelf life, as long as Bray himself is allowed to be creative with it, and he's not screwed over, but even if that's true, you've got to make it count while you can.


The gimmick is absolutely perfect for this time of year, plus the gimmick is still fairly fresh and banging the title on their hottest act at this moment in time is the right move.

As I said though, how fresh can they keep it before fans get bored? A few months? A whole year? I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

Firefly funhouse segments will run their course, this red lighting during his matches will get more and more annoying and booking him so strongly will end up getting super silly. 

That's why I see his gimmick only lasting so long unless he starts adding fresh ideas.


----------



## BigRedMonster47 (Jul 19, 2013)

Nice refreshing change!! Glad Rollins is no longer champion.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ace said:


> Yeah, and we've already seen the dude get over for 2 mins, fuck up and get pushed down the card for years.
> 
> This time will be no different, hopefully this time is the last time and the company cuts their losses. I hear TNA is hiring.


Yeah, they're really gonna cut their losses on the guy who caused a bigger fan revolt than Daniel Bryan did in 2015 and made Vince abandon all his plans. They're totally gonna let AEW have that guy. They won't even fire backstage announcers anymore.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Kratosx23 said:


> Yeah, they're really gonna cut their losses on the guy who caused a bigger fan revolt than Daniel Bryan did in 2015 and made Vince abandon all his plans. They're totally gonna let AEW have that guy. They won't even fire backstage announcers anymore.


 fuck no, the Fiend is too hokey for a sports product.

I think I'm going to enjoy Bray's reign more than his fans.


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

Well for a change, they decided to go with the person with the hot hand instead of trying to put a fucking Shield member over all the time.. God this seems like its been happening for eternity with them just being so damn boring that they can't get over at all... So Bravo to Vince for a change..


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ace said:


> fuck no, the Fiend is too hokey for a sports product.
> 
> I think I'm going to enjoy Bray's reign more than his fans.


What are you talking about? AEW is hokier than WWE is. They had guys dressed up as Rick and Morty, not to mention Orange Cassidy doing moves with his hands in his pockets. :mj4

AEW is a cartoon product. The fact that they make wins and losses count doesn't change that fact.

Also, AEW isn't going to turn down a major star, hokey or otherwise.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Just imagine Bray Wyatt pinning Brock Lesnar at Survivor Series. Rey Mysterio can interfere, I don't care, just let it happen :lol


----------



## henrymark (Apr 11, 2012)

Just read about it. Refreshing, but the cynic in me feels this is a late booking change in response to the tanking ratings and that they'll have him drop it in a week or two, maybe to Rollins again. Aka similar to Kane and Stone Cold


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

Alright_Mate said:


> The gimmick is absolutely perfect for this time of year, plus the gimmick is still fairly fresh and banging the title on their hottest act at this moment in time is the right move.
> 
> As I said though, how fresh can they keep it before fans get bored? A few months? A whole year? I'm sorry, I just don't see it.
> 
> ...


Well if he can't add fresh ideas and he becomes stale, you take the title off him and find something else for him to do.

What's so weird about that? If it's just a flash in the pan, they'll move on to something else. It's not like they're sacrificing anything worthnote for Wyatt, Rollins' reign had to end anyway, the guy is getting Reigns-like heat.


----------



## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Ace said:


> fuck no, the Fiend is too hokey for a sports product.
> 
> I think I'm going to enjoy Bray's reign more than his fans.




Never really thought you were a troll until now. Lost my respect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

shadows123 said:


> Well for a change, they decided to go with the person with the hot hand instead of trying to put a fucking Shield member over all the time.. God this seems like its been happening for eternity with them just being so damn boring that they can't get over at all... So Bravo to Vince for a change..


I really hate posts like this cos when people say “Shield members” that includes Mox and he can’t be compared to Seth or Roman at all. He was never Universal Champ and got the crappiest booking of the three. No need to lump him in with this.


With Brock and Bray as champs, for me personally, that’s the worst set of champs
possibly ever :lol


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

bradatar said:


> Never really thought you were a troll until now. Lost my respect.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bray is a hokey gimmick, AEW on the top of the card want to keep it serious and sports oriented.

A supernatural gimmick which relies on heavy no selling is not a good fit.


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

Ace said:


> fuck no, the Fiend is too hokey for a sports product.
> 
> I think I'm going to enjoy Bray's reign more than his fans.


Thought you would be happy for a change that Vince didn't decide to continue to shove Rollins week after week like he did with Reigns despite not being over enough and gave the title as soon as when someone was over with the fans instead...


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

ste1592 said:


> Well if he can't add fresh ideas and he becomes stale, you take the title off him and find something else for him to do.


What like?

Back to midcard? Chasing after the 24/7 title?

A fall from grace for Bray Wyatt, we've been there about 100 times before :lol


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

shadows123 said:


> Thought you would be happy for a change that Vince didn't decide to continue to shove Rollins week after week like he did with Reigns despite not being over enough and gave the title as soon as when someone was over with the fans instead...


 Seth sucked on top but I was indifferent to him. Didn't really care what he did.

With Bray there's a sense of inevitablity of him fucking up and the company going too far with the hokey shit. Now he's world champion, we're going to see more of that shit than ever.

The good thing is that it could be more wrestle crap tier shit from the wrestle crap GOAT. But that's the last thing this product needs, crap that is either embarrassingly bad or so bad it's good (on top of the card).


----------



## Yuffie Kisaragi (Sep 24, 2005)

*Finally something that mattered happened on one of these shows.

I wonder if they realized they fucked themselves out of sensical finish and had to give him the belt.*



birthday_massacre said:


> So does SD have both titles now lol Or will a SD guy be on Raw because he has their world title


*Wyatt will appear on MizTV without the belt tomorrow because The Fiend is a different entity.*

*FIEND = RAW

Wyatt = Smackdown*


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Too little. 

Way too late.


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

Mox Girl said:


> I really hate posts like this cos when people say “Shield members” that includes Mox and he can’t be compared to Seth or Roman at all. He was never Universal Champ and got the crappiest booking of the three. No need to lump him in with this.
> 
> 
> With Brock and Bray as champs, for me personally, that’s the worst set of champs
> possibly ever :lol


Ya ..2/3 is close enough?? :lol typing Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins each time is tiring.. :lol


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

Alright_Mate said:


> What like?
> 
> Back to midcard? Chasing after the 24/7 title?
> 
> A fall from grace for Bray Wyatt, we've been there about 100 times before :lol


Well, when you're on top, is there anywhere you can go but down?

Honestly, I'm happier to know he is going to midcard after being the Universal Champion than continue midcarding forever.

And we've barely been there. Wyatt's success in WWE is so rare that we've only seen "fall from possible to success to steady irrelevancy". Which is what I expected this time too.


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

Ace said:


> Seth sucked on top but I was indifferent to him. Didn't really care what he did.
> 
> With Bray there's a sense of inevitablity of him fucking up and the company going too far with the hokey shit. Now he's world champion, we're going to see more of that shit than ever.
> 
> The good thing is that it could be more wrestle crap tier shit from the wrestle crap GOAT. But that's the last thing this product needs, crap that is either embarrassingly bad or so bad it's good (on top of the card).


You know Vince is not high on him either as evident by the burial job after burial job he did on him.. And he will pull the plug on this soon enough than you think...No need to worry that this will go on like it did with 2/3 Shield with their boring shit week after week... :lol I mean its not like there is a Steve Austin calibre talent held back to push Bray Wyatt..If not him, it would probably be Seth Rollins rolling over someone else....

P.S: I wouldn't be surprised if this is all a master plan by Vince to have Roman overcome this unstoppable monster with a single superman punch :vince


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

Very happy for Windham Rotunda, but if this means he’s moving to Raw then that really kills SmackDown for me, Rotunda is the only guy on there I’d watch for apart from Danielson.


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

Someone in this thread seems a little upset :lol

Wyatt fans just be chilling like..


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Mr. Rogers Bray is vacating the title on Miz TV is my prediction.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Well they blew their load early and now it's going to be people chasing Bray Wyatt which won't be as fun


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1190026865047678976


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)




----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

shadows123 said:


> You know Vince is not high on him either as evident by the burial job after burial job he did on him..


Vince doesn't need to be high on Bray, he needs to be desperate. Look at what Vince being desperate got Becky. He ain't high on her. 

Nothing that happened in the past means anything. All that matters is what they do in the future. We'll see if they've truly learned their lesson or not.


----------



## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

This doesn't make a whole load of sense brand split wise, but I don't care care about any of that right. The Fiend is the Universal champion! Not getting too excited, but hopefully they've learned a lesson after HIAC.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

This sort of character needs good booking and strong and interesting babyface protagonists for him to feud with to work. I don't have faith in WWEs booking and WWEs roster is shit. They'd probably be best building up Braun or bringing back Kane for Bray to feud with. No one is going to give a shit about him squashing the geeks on this roster.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Kevin Owens is still the 2nd longest-reigning Universal Champion at 188 days, since Seth Rollins is at 179 combined days. More good news for me. And for Tyrion


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

Universal Title?










Haters?


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

I want to see Bray Wyatt chanting "I deserve it!" just like Kane was chanting "I still got it!" :lmao


----------



## Barty (Nov 16, 2006)

JD=JohnDorian said:


> This doesn't make a whole load of sense brand split wise, .


Depends on how you look at it. 










Bray was drafted... "The Fiend" wasn't. 
They could play it off as separate entities.... If they wanted to.


----------



## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

Barty said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He only wrestles as The Fiend though, so Bray wouldn't be able to have matches on Smackdown. Guess you could have the Firefly Funhouse on Smackdown and The Fiend wrestle on Raw.


----------



## Barty (Nov 16, 2006)

JD=JohnDorian said:


> He only wrestles as The Fiend though, so Bray wouldn't be able to have matches on Smackdown. Guess you could have the Firefly Funhouse on Smackdown and The Fiend wrestle on Raw.


Yeah, not saying it's a good idea... just that, on a technicality, it could work.

Joseph Park/ Abyss situation, maybe? 

Or, they'll just ignore it outright and not address it.


----------



## InexorableJourney (Sep 10, 2016)

Sounds like Halloween havoc.


----------



## PresidentGasman (Mar 25, 2019)

Kratosx23 said:


> Vince doesn't need to be high on Bray, he needs to be desperate. Look at what Vince being desperate got Becky. He ain't high on her.
> 
> Nothing that happened in the past means anything. All that matters is what they do in the future. We'll see if they've truly learned their lesson or not.


Honestly this, the only way to get Vince to diversify the world title scenes is for fans to be as pissed as they were this past month. just look at Bryan in 2013, if Fans want his head Vince will at least somewhat cave.


----------



## The3 (Aug 20, 2018)

Bray Wyatt on Smackdown and The Fiend on RAW.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

Happy for Bray. No idea who will be able to beat him since he is on a higher lever of power than Brock, given all those stomp kickouts. Gonna need an exorcist or something. :lol


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

WOW. Just saw this. They actually did it. Holy shit. Wyatt fans bout to be popping bottles. Should have been at HIAC but fuck it I’ll take it. Finally something fresh. Now we can have Aleister Black wreck him at Wrestlemania and Black Mass him into oblivion. That is the best route they can go from here. No one else has what it takes. Only a destroyer can put down The Fiend after all the shit Wyatt has no sold. Black for Royal Rumble 2020 winner.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Have Bray retain at WrestleMania by defeating Kevin Owens. Have him lose the belt via Money in the Bank cash-in at SummerSlam - Andrade pins Samoa Joe during his title match against Bray. Then Bray will slowly turn face by going against Andrade and his villainous faction (Zelina Vega, Rey Mysterio and AOP).


----------



## arch.unleash (Aug 31, 2016)

Holy shit this is the biggest surprise since the streak ending. I didn't watch the show and my friend told me and I completely lost my shit. I saw it with my own eyes and still can't believe it! The WWE doing something right? It's a legit miracle.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

21:22 - 22:05 :banderas


----------



## arch.unleash (Aug 31, 2016)

I have a feeling it won't last long, maybe he'll lose it on Monday, but at least it fucking happened.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Barty said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except the commentators always refer to him as "The Fiend, Bray Wyatt". They've never been considered 2 separate entities in WWE canon. You can argue they're a split personality if you want (although he's shown clear signs that's not true), but you can't argue The Fiend is not Bray Wyatt because they say it every minute.



prosperwithdeen said:


> WOW. Just saw this. They actually did it. Holy shit. Wyatt fans bout to be popping bottles. Should have been at HIAC but fuck it I’ll take it. Finally something fresh. Now we can have Aleister Black wreck him at Wrestlemania and Black Mass him into oblivion. That is the best route they can go from here. No one else has what it takes. Only a destroyer can put down The Fiend after all the shit Wyatt has no sold. Black for Royal Rumble 2020 winner.


LOL. They ain't doing shit with Black. And Black is not a "destroyer", he's a guy who's been sitting in a dark room for the last 3 months doing nothing.

The Fiend is not losing to a Black Mass. They've made it practically impossible to beat him. That means he's facing a top, top guy at Mania. Roman, Brock, Undertaker, Triple H or Seth. They're not gonna stick him with Aleister Black.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

So.......Happy for Bray.

But, you had to do one of the worst and dumbest finishes to a match in recent history at Hell in a Cell because.......why?

Like, was it because this show was on Halloween? And if that's the case, why not just wait to do the 1st match here?

I want to be happy about this and some part of me is. But the other part of me can't stop thinking why they had to do that bullshit in the first place.


----------



## Mr.Monkey (Jul 12, 2014)

Either Demon or Black takes down the fiend at mania


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Well, I for one am incredibly happy.

I read and shook my head at the countless ‘Bray is dead’ and ‘Bray is buried’ threads after he lost to Cena and Orton. Haha...suck it.

What a journey for the guy. He might not hold onto it for very long, but the guy flat out deserves this. 

Please though...Vince you senile old cunt. Get rid of the annoying red light.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

bradatar said:


> At least you get this. No idea how people can bitch about this. It’d be another month of fuck Rollins talk on here if he won again. I’ll take winning in Arabia. No more Rollins threads or talk for a while will make this a much better place. Forums been so boring lately.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does this also mean a temporary cease fire between you and dammit now his boy ain't champ ? :lol 

On topic I'm absolutely fucking thrilled. This is the best thing to come out of Saudi Arabia since camel's.

Now keep that over emotional, more sensitive than an untouched clitoris, overgrown manchild in the midcard until he learns to conduct himself properly.

Give bray 6 months and I won't bitch. Have him lose it in 2 months in an overly gimmicky fun house match I will personally fly to Stamford, walk up to Vince and beat him with everything on his desk.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Bray can't be killed :banderas

SO happy he finally got his moment in the sun after the last time. Now lets us pray for a long well booked reign, one that ends in a year and not a month

Also :Cocky This motherfucker got booed by Saudi marks. He's done :lmao


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Wyatt should keep the title until Mania. I'm not sure who he would drop it to though? The only person on Raw that could possibly challenge him at Mania is Owens. Everyone else are either heels, midcard or dead in the water faces.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Headliner said:


> Wyatt should keep the title until Mania. I'm not sure who he would drop it to though? The only person on Raw that could possibly challenge him at Mania is Owens. Everyone else are either heels, midcard or dead in the water faces.


I'd go with Black. He's the best dude to it as his character is the perfect counter-balance for the Fiend.


----------



## CdnDestroyer#8 (Jul 2, 2019)

wake up you fucking idiot's he's losing it on monday the only reason he won the universal championship is because it's halloween.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Donnie said:


> I'd go with Black. He's the best dude to it as his character is the perfect counter-balance for the Fiend.


Do you think they would push him straight pass the US title? I'm not sure he's a big enough star to main-event Mania.


----------



## Knee2FaceHit2Balls (May 20, 2018)

Glad Bray won but I couldn't enjoy any of it because the match was a bigger trainwreck than Hell in a Cell.


----------



## Rankles75 (May 29, 2011)

About fucking time! 

My initial fear was that it’s going to be another short reign, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that won’t be the case. Hopefully it’s a Lesnar length reign, which would be no less than Bray deserves for consistently being at least one of the best things in the company for years, despite frequently crappy booking.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

The right decision was made. Now it's time to let Big Dog unify the titles


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Headliner said:


> Do you think they would push him straight pass the US title? I'm not sure he's a big enough star to main-event Mania.


Heyman reportedly loves him and thinks he can be a future star, so i think if he's able to push him the way he wants it'll work. 

I do think he can jump the US title if he takes some big scalps in KO and Joe, that makes me him legit in the eyes of the fans. Meanwhile, you have Bray talking about how he wants to make everyone on the roster smile and the idea of a dark broody Aleister Black on the roster is something he needs to fix. Black wins the Rumble, and we go from there.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 (Dec 15, 2004)

*Brazzers congratulates Bray Wyatt for winning the Universal Champion*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1190004413177483264


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Kratosx23 said:


> LOL. They ain't doing shit with Black. And Black is not a "destroyer", he's a guy who's been sitting in a dark room for the last 3 months doing nothing.
> 
> The Fiend is not losing to a Black Mass. They've made it practically impossible to beat him. That means he's facing a top, top guy at Mania. Roman, Brock, Undertaker, Triple H or Seth. They're not gonna stick him with Aleister Black.


Well that’s why he needs to be built as a top guy. It won’t take one Black Mass of course. Rollins hit 15 Curbstomps in a row so about 8 Black Masses should do the trick assuming they build up the finisher as the real deal. Have Wyatt sell each Black Mass a little differently. Last one through a glass window. Everyone is “just” something until they are pushed. They can easily take him out of the dark closet and take him seriously.

Triple H is not facing The Fiend. Lesnar is facing Roman or Cain. Undertaker at this point is not winning any gold. Having Seth go over at Mania in Part 3 would be asinine. Roman is definitely a possibility though. 

But fuck that I want Black. It’s darkness vs darkness and it writes itself. Everyone is scared of The Fiend except for Black. Dark clown vs the Destroyer. That’s how they should book it. You already had the FOTC crying in the corner. A Black/Fiend program for Mania would be so fuckin dope and I hope they do it. The promo dynamic between the two would be some intriguing television. Nobody wants to see Roman Reigns Superman lunch his way to more gold. They need to make Black a real star.


----------



## Ghost Lantern (Apr 11, 2012)

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Guess who was right the whole damn time for the past full month of him winning. Who was the one that told everyone that Bray would be the most over guy on the men's side division in this company? That is right it was me & @Kratosx23 ; but some people doubted us. And our battles and debates over this was worth it!


Wait, are you kidding Buffy?

never mind, ill just sit this out on second thought.


----------



## Joseph92 (Jun 26, 2007)

I did not read all 17 pages of this thread so this may have been asked before, but what happens now with the belt? Does Smackdown have two belts on it's show now?

Or are they going to say that Smackdown picked Bray Wyatt in the draft and not The Fiend and then have the Fiend to continue to wrestle on Raw and keep the Universal Championship belt on that show?


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Looked like a trash match.


----------



## MEMS (Jun 18, 2013)

Fiend is a cool character. Firefly Funhouse is great. But this just makes me wish they didn’t screw up the original Wyatt family.


----------



## Cyberdemon (Aug 29, 2019)

Kratosx23 said:


> Would you have preferred he be fucked again? I wouldn't. Yes, it's late, but at least they recognized their mistake. More of this please.


I was talking about how Bray's victory would affect WWE in a long run. The HIAC match made me lose faith in watching their programs. I admit that it's hard to get over the outcome, because I was so invested in Bray's Fiend character and that match, killed the popularity of his character and his momentum. I just don't agree with Vince's decision to end the match in such an illogical way. I was happy that he beat Rollins for the Universal Championship. I'm happy that they salvaged the controversy by having him beat Rollins to win the title. But when it comes to where the direction the company is going, I think it's very sketchy.

I'm curious to see how long they can keep the belt on him before the end of 2019.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm stunned. Didn't think WWE bothered listening to the fans anymore.

It had to be done, just had too. Fiend is too hot to be jobbing to some McMahon pet like Rollins. And I don't think the McMahons realised that when they started this feud, I'm sure they expected to just be able to have Rollins murk the Fiend and then move on. 

There is an issue now though that neither World Champ can actually just have a match. There has to be overbooking and no selling galore in any match involving either current World Champ.


----------



## The Quintessential Mark (Mar 5, 2018)

I went into this match in doubt that Bray was winning and that i would be genuinely surprised if he actually won the match then it happened.


WWE don't fuck up his booking from here on out please.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Are people seriously suggesting Black should face Bray at WM?

Blacks just another one of those guys who embodies everything wrong with Pro Wrestling, all flash no substance. Kicks, flips and a gimmick that disappears the moment his entrance ends.


----------



## cyrus_cesar (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm actually shocked, and waiting to see how they will mess this up...Either way, this is legit, the first time I've been interested in a while..


----------



## Ghost Lantern (Apr 11, 2012)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Are people seriously suggesting Black should face Bray at WM?
> 
> Blacks just another one of those guys who embodies everything wrong with Pro Wrestling, all flash no substance. Kicks, flips and a gimmick that disappears the moment his entrance ends.


Well I disagree on Black...he is great. But this thread is not about him.

But I do not think he should be put against Bray anytime soon. 

Let Black simmer.


----------



## The Quintessential Mark (Mar 5, 2018)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Are people seriously suggesting Black should face Bray at WM?
> 
> Blacks just another one of those guys who embodies everything wrong with Pro Wrestling, all flash no substance. Kicks, flips and a gimmick that disappears the moment his entrance ends.


Black isn't your local spot monkey but he's not a grappler either, If he turned Heel and kept his character consistent like Bray Wyatt that carries over from promos to matches as he should be doing he'd be fine, I like that he's more a pure striker than flips at least.

A match with The Fiend I'd avoid at WrestleMania it's not going to work on that level if you mesh both characters for a storyline they may as well be allies more than enemies, A match for The Fiend at Mania should be Undertaker whether he's in prime condition or not.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 (Dec 15, 2004)

*Re: Brazzers congratulates Bray Wyatt for winning the Universal Champion*



M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1190004413177483264




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1190023184847908865


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Donnie said:


> Heyman reportedly loves him and thinks he can be a future star, so i think if he's able to push him the way he wants it'll work.
> 
> I do think he can jump the US title if he takes some big scalps in KO and Joe, that makes me him legit in the eyes of the fans. Meanwhile, you have Bray talking about how he wants to make everyone on the roster smile and the idea of a dark broody Aleister Black on the roster is something he needs to fix. Black wins the Rumble, and we go from there.





Mr.Monkey said:


> Either Demon or Black takes down the fiend at mania





Donnie said:


> I'd go with Black. He's the best dude to it as his character is the perfect counter-balance for the Fiend.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Black is the perfect choice to take down The Fiend. The only other option I would be okay with is a mega over babyface Daniel Bryan. Everyone looks at Black as just another guy now but if they push him then all of that will change. That's how its always been in pro wrestling, its all about perception, and perceptions are easily altered. 

If not Bryan, then I think Black should be the guy. Put him over AJ, then over Rollins, then have him win the Rumble. Then we're set. Knowing WWE though, it'll probably be Reigns. 15 Curbstomps can't do it, but 2 Superman Punches and a Spear can! :vince5



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Are people seriously suggesting Black should face Bray at WM?
> 
> Blacks just another one of those guys who embodies everything wrong with Pro Wrestling, all flash no substance. Kicks, flips and a gimmick that disappears the moment his entrance ends.


And who would you suggest is the best choice to beat The Fiend?


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

TommyWCECM said:


> Give bray 6 months and I won't bitch. Have him lose it in 2 months in an overly gimmicky fun house match I will personally fly to Stamford, walk up to Vince and beat him with everything on his desk.


Sorry for the obvious spoiler, but you wouldn't


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

JustAName said:


> Sorry for the obvious spoiler, but you wouldn't


Well duh. I can't even find Connecticut on a map. But if you give Kofi and jinder long reigns you do it with bray.

I'm tired of monster heels being jokes or transitional champs (with a ufc background being the only exception) 

So give him until august. Legitimize someone that is over, that is a full time guy, who has staying power even without the title.

Just give bray the same respect Roman and Rollins are afforded. Give him undertaker booking at least. Where even when undertaker was feuding with Kennedy or mark Henry he was treated as a big deal.

That's all I ask.


----------



## ImSumukh (Mar 26, 2016)

Better late than never.


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

TommyWCECM said:


> Well duh. I can't even find Connecticut on a map. But if you give Kofi and jinder long reigns you do it with bray.
> 
> I'm tired of monster heels being jokes or transitional champs (with a ufc background being the only exception)
> 
> ...



"Can't even find Connecticut on a map" Hahaha that's just a great line.

I do 100% agree he should have a long run though for sure, WWE just have a habit of fucking up things that are actually good so I won't hold my breath with this one either, I might die


----------



## raymond1985 (Apr 30, 2019)

I wouldn't get too excited. 

WWE are going to continue pushing Rollins as the FOTC. WWE will also mess up The Fiend's title reign and ruin the character. In a months time, it will be business as usual.


----------



## The Quintessential Mark (Mar 5, 2018)

raymond1985 said:


> I wouldn't get too excited.
> 
> WWE are going to continue pushing Rollins as the FOTC. WWE will also mess up The Fiend's title reign and ruin the character. In a months time, it will be business as usual.


Man you jinxed it....


----------



## raymond1985 (Apr 30, 2019)

Blissed Phenomenon said:


> Man you jinxed it....


Sorry.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

:mark


----------



## KaNeInSaNe (Mar 27, 2014)

A well deserved title run for one of the most creative characters developed in quite a while. Sure it was rushed a bit, but Bray deserves this title run for the creative thought alone.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Black is the perfect choice to take down The Fiend. The only other option I would be okay with is a mega over babyface Daniel Bryan. Everyone looks at Black as just another guy now but if they push him then all of that will change. That's how its always been in pro wrestling, its all about perception, and perceptions are easily altered.
> 
> If not Bryan, then I think Black should be the guy. Put him over AJ, then over Rollins, then have him win the Rumble. Then we're set. Knowing WWE though, it'll probably be Reigns. 15 Curbstomps can't do it, but 2 Superman Punches and a Spear can! :vince5
> 
> ...


Very first person that comes to mind; Samoa Joe. 

Or Rusev, or even Miz, or hell why not Elias or someone like him? Guys who posses more actual Pro Wrestling ability.

I will say there is a caveat to those guys, they all dared to defy the McMahon regime and got over when they weren't supposed too, so they've all been punished, jobbed out and buried as a result. But in a perfect World its thsoe sort of guys that would be in a position to beat Bray Wyatt, not just an endless sea of one dimensional geeks.

Blacks complete and entire disappearing act of his gimmick once his theme music ends is too massive an issue to regard him highly. WWE needs to get passed this Era where they keep pushing guys with no ability to work a character, non existent mic skills and no charisma. They NEED to start pushing REAL Pro Wrestlers again.


----------



## UniversalGleam (Jan 30, 2017)

I wouldnt honestly be surprised if they have rollins win it back on monday. 

wwe really needs to stop with this red lighting shit though if he does stay champion. You can't expect fans to watch the title matches though that monstrosity.


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

Aleister fucking Black? Y'all are killing me I swear.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Aleister fucking Black? Y'all are killing me I swear.


Black is great!


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Aleister fucking Black? Y'all are killing me I swear.


Hey, I like Black :jericho2


But seriously, anyone from the upper midcard will be fine, as long as he's built up and the Fiend has a decently long reign.

If he loses after Mania to someone who racks up wins from today onward, I'll be happy 98 times out of 100; those 2 times include Rollins or Reigns as the next champion, and that's honestly a unkout. 

The guy has to win at least one freaking match at Mania though, he's on a reverse Streak and that's killing me.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez (Jul 18, 2014)

He's going to lose the belt on Monday lmao


----------



## RamPaige (Jun 10, 2017)

Black or Daniel Bryan would be fine for me. Daniel's already established but he can actually play a great baby face and considering WWE completely screwed up his face run last year this would be a way for them to fix that.

Black has a cool look and is great in the ring. Right now, he doesn't have a gimmick of any kind but if WWE does a good job building him up he'd be a great choice for defeating Bray and making a nice top guy wrestler in the WWE.


----------



## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

I don't understand the love for black. Demon Balor would be a better option.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

prosperwithdeen said:


> And who would you suggest is the best choice to beat The Fiend?


----------



## Krokro (Oct 19, 2015)

Best choice? Demon Balor, who uses the OC to cheat.

Second best choice? Daniel Bryan

The Answer: Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, or like... Goldberg or something.


----------



## grecefar (Dec 19, 2017)

Demon balor in summerslam is unbeaten so it can happen there, besides him I don't see anyone beating him besides roman.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

As long as smackdown is affiliated with fox Roman is not moving. If we are speculating who beats bray the only Samoan who has a shot or correction DESERVES a shot and win is Samoa Joe. 2020 must be the summer of Joe he can beat bray at summerslam. Then Joe can lose at 37 to Owens. Or Daniel Bryan (just so I'm not accused of bias). Then dunne can beat Bryan cause that's the closest representative for a champion I'll ever have cause lord knows Australia isn't making world champion calibre wrestlers.


----------



## Dove* (Mar 15, 2010)

Cain will win his title from Brock. And title will go to Raw. Simple as that. At first maybe it's gonna be Wyatt, Cole, Lesnar at survivor series? Then after that Brock will lose definitely. Now dont care even about that. I am just grateful that The Fiend is champion. We wanted him to succeed. I am really happy about WWE right now. Saudi Arabia PPV was really great, didn't expected that kind of scenario.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

How fucking dumb are the WWE?

They could've just done this at Hell in a Cell when it would've mattered. Now, with all his momentum fucked, they decide to give him the title? Fucking hell. They really are morons.

Still, he's one of the few good talents on the roster so good for him.


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

.christopher. said:


> How fucking dumb are the WWE?
> 
> They could've just done this at Hell in a Cell when it would've mattered. Now, with all his momentum fucked, they decide to give him the title? Fucking hell. They really are morons.
> 
> Still, he's one of the few good talents on the roster so good for him.


They can't take the chance of striking the iron when it's hot and make an actual star.

Let's just be glad they didn't wait as long as the first time he won the WWE title. Or that they didn't give him the Braun treatment.


----------



## UniversalGleam (Jan 30, 2017)

.christopher. said:


> How fucking dumb are the WWE?
> 
> They could've just done this at Hell in a Cell when it would've mattered. Now, with all his momentum fucked, they decide to give him the title? Fucking hell. They really are morons.
> 
> Still, he's one of the few good talents on the roster so good for him.


its not over yet. WWE might put him in a rematch with rollins on monday and go back to square one.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Very first person that comes to mind; Samoa Joe.
> 
> Or Rusev, or even Miz, or hell why not Elias or someone like him? Guys who posses more actual Pro Wrestling ability.
> 
> ...


Black does change when his music ends, I won't deny that. His mic skills are fine but he is lacking in the character and charisma department. At the same time, there is no one else who can be believable. Black is believable because he is darkness just like The Fiend is, and he has an OP finisher. He also hasn't been booked to lose continuously like everyone else, he's still somewhat protected. He's also not a carbon copy of everyone else. He's actually different and is presented as different. I could get on board with Samoa Joe. The rest of the guys you listed though, absolutely not. They've turned Bray into an immortal anime monster. It still has to be believable. Joe or Black would be believable. It's too late for anyone to take Rusev, Miz, or Elias seriously. Same thing could be said for Joe given how many matches he's lost but his ruthlessness in the ring still makes him a great choice. They could re-book him to be like how he was when he was feuding with Lesnar. 




Kratosx23 said:


>


:ha:ha:ha:ha:ha:ha:ha:ha

:denirolol Please Tyrion, spare me. You clamor for The Fiend to be pushed as the top guy and then you want him to lower himself to KO's level? LMAO. The visual of KO pinning The Fiend after hitting a Stunner is the WOAT. Would be the goofiest thing ever and would kill the Fiend's character worse than Rollins did. If Vince doesn't force a Roman Reigns program, it should be Black, Joe, or Bryan.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

delete double post


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I could get on board with Samoa Joe. The rest of the guys you listed though, absolutely not. They've turned Bray into an immortal anime monster. It still has to be believable. Joe or Black would be believable. It's too late for anyone to take Rusev, Miz, or Elias seriously. Same thing could be said for Joe given how many matches he's lost but his ruthlessness in the ring still makes him a great choice.


Joe would not be believable. There's no way to beat The Fiend and make it believable. Even Brock isn't believable now. The best they can do is put over a guy like Joe where people will not care about the lack of believability and just accept it because Joe finally got his due.



prosperwithdeen said:


> :denirolol Please Tyrion, spare me. You clamor for The Fiend to be pushed as the top guy and then you want him to lower himself to KO's level? LMAO.


Kevin Owens is much more over, much more talented, much more credible, and much more accomplished than Aleister Black. You want to talk about lowering him? Black is a geek. Kevin Owens should be pushed as a top guy, and unless you're gonna put Joe over The Fiend, and you're not, they have nobody else that's worthy. Bray should hold the title until SummerSlam and drop it to Owens and put him over as the next big babyface. Unlike Roman and Rollins, fans will accept him at a top level because he's that good.



> LMAO. The visual of KO pinning The Fiend after hitting a Stunner is the WOAT. If Vince doesn't force a Roman Reigns program, it should be Black, Joe, or Bryan.


Considering Owens actually wins matches, unlike Joe, and is actually featured, unlike Black, I fail to see how Bray getting pinned by Owens would make him look worse than getting pinned by two geeks.

Bryans time is up, he needs to stay in the midcard.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Kratosx23 said:


> Joe would not be believable. There's no way to beat The Fiend and make it believable. Even Brock isn't believable now. The best they can do is put over a guy like Joe *where people will not care about the lack of believability and just accept it* because Joe finally got his due.


That's what they will have to do regardless. They've already booked themselves into a corner so we might as well accept it now that however The Fiend goes down, it will be a semi-disappointment. WWE already screwed themselves there by having Bray instant regenerate. So pushing Joe or Black as dark and ruthless is the best route and will create the next big babyface. 





Kratosx23 said:


> Kevin Owens is much more over, much more talented, much more credible, and much more accomplished than Aleister Black. You want to talk about lowering him? Black is a geek. Kevin Owens should be pushed as a top guy, and unless you're gonna put Joe over The Fiend, and you're not, they have nobody else that's worthy. Bray should hold the title until SummerSlam and drop it to Owens and put him over as the next big babyface. Unlike Roman and Rollins, fans will accept him at a top level because he's that good.
> 
> 
> Considering Owens actually wins matches, unlike Joe, and is actually featured, unlike Black, I fail to see how Bray getting pinned by Owens would make him look worse than getting pinned by two geeks.
> ...


Hmm let's see, on one hand, you have Black hitting Black Masses on The Fiend to pin him and on the other hand, you have KO looking goofy hitting the Stunner to get the win. I know the visual that I would prefer. KO pinning The Fiend would be more comedy than serious lol. I just don't see it. And let's not forget that KO is also a geek. More of a geek than Black and Joe to some people. Just because he beat Shane in a Ladder match and gets cheered because of it doesn't automatically erase all of his history of terrible geek-like booking. He has no credibility outside of that. Everyone is a geek unless you're in the Shield or in MMA.

KO pinning him would look worse because of presentation. Whoever beats The Fiend needs to have a serious character. At least that's how it SHOULD be. KO is goofy. Joe has been booked terribly but because of his ruthless, badass character, they can easily rectify that if they wanted to. Hell back when Joe helped Roman and had his 2 week babyface run, the fans were ready to forget about his loss record and get behind him. He was organically getting over as a babyface badass. Too bad Vince killed it. And Black's character speaks for itself. 

Black is only less accomplished until he's not. They could easily put him over AJ and Rollins and have him win The Rumble. Then he could be right in contention with those that you claim are in the upper card. I'm not oblivious to the fact that Vince will never push Black though, this is just what I think should happen.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Hmm let's see, on one hand, you have Black hitting Black Masses on The Fiend to pin him and on the other hand, you have KO looking goofy hitting the Stunner to get the win. I know the visual that I would prefer.


You'd only prefer that visual because you want Black getting pushed. Let's not pretend that if Black used a Stunner and Owens was still using the Powerbomb, you'd have a completely different opinion.



> KO pinning The Fiend would be more comedy than serious lol. I just don't see it. And let's not forget that KO is also a geek. More of a geek than Black and Joe to some people.


Whoever considers KO as more of a geek than Black and Joe doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. 



> Just because he beat Shane in a Ladder match and gets cheered because of it doesn't automatically erase all of his history of terrible geek-like booking. He has no credibility outside of that.


Put a mask on him. That erases all the geek like booking in the world.

It's not just because he beat Shane in a ladder match. KO is a former Universal champion, he's been IC and US champion multiple times. There's no babyface on Raw who's more accomplished than him except Seth, and God forbid if they go back to Seth, and they don't need Roman, Bryan, etc, whoever to beat Bray. Just book Owens well and people will get behind him. He's an extremely entertaining performer, regardless of you disagreeing with that.



> Everyone is a geek unless you're in the Shield or in MMA.


Or The Fiend. :draper2



> KO pinning him would look worse because of presentation. Whoever beats The Fiend needs to have a serious character. At least that's how it SHOULD be. KO is goofy.


If KO is goofy, then so is Daniel Bryan. His gimmicks are that he drives a Prius and eats vegetables, or doing goofy yes chants. I don't view KO as a comedy character at all. Just because you have comedic elements to your character doesn't make you a comedy character. John Cena had way more comedy in his character than Owens does.



> Joe has been booked terribly but because of his ruthless, badass character, they can easily rectify that if they wanted to. Hell back when Joe helped Roman and had his 2 week babyface run, the fans were ready to forget about his loss record and get behind him. He was organically getting over as a babyface badass. Too bad Vince killed it. And Black's character speaks for itself.


You don't have to sell me on Joe. I would make Joe a monster babyface and completely flip his booking around, but I'm not even considering Joe because he's so far removed from ever being pushed and I'm not delusional enough to even consider him a possibility.



> Black is only less accomplished until he's not. They could easily put him over AJ and Rollins and have him win The Rumble. Then he could be right in contention with those that you claim are in the upper card. I'm not oblivious to the fact that Vince will never push Black though, this is just what I think should happen.


Well, that's not gonna happen, nor should it.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

Having not watched WWE for a long time, reading these posts makes me realise how shitty the roster is, and, despite being champion, I have no interest in watching because the likely opponents for him are trash.

Only people I'd care to see him feud with are Bryan, Sami and Joe. Sami and Joe are fucked, which leaves 1 person on the entire roster.


----------



## The Phantom (Jan 12, 2018)

I kinda like that a malefic monster in a fright mask won on Halloween.


----------



## El Grappleador (Jan 9, 2018)

I ain't amazing knowing this rivalry was built wrong.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

The Fiend should definitely win his WrestleMania 36 match. And I hope he'll have a feud with Triple H, I really wanted to see that back in their Wyatt Family and Authority days.


----------



## Yuffie Kisaragi (Sep 24, 2005)

*October 31st, 2019


Bray Wyatt saves the WWE
*


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

The only guys credible enough to kayfabe beat Bray at this point are Brock, Goldberg and Taker and even then they'd need gimmicks and multiple finishers to do it. They've booked themselves into a corner with this supernatural shit. The visual of him losing to anything other than a nuke is going to look silly.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Black does change when his music ends, I won't deny that. His mic skills are fine but he is lacking in the character and charisma department. At the same time, there is no one else who can be believable. Black is believable because he is darkness just like The Fiend is, and he has an OP finisher. He also hasn't been booked to lose continuously like everyone else, he's still somewhat protected. He's also not a carbon copy of everyone else. He's actually different and is presented as different. I could get on board with Samoa Joe. The rest of the guys you listed though, absolutely not. They've turned Bray into an immortal anime monster. It still has to be believable. Joe or Black would be believable. It's too late for anyone to take Rusev, Miz, or Elias seriously. Same thing could be said for Joe given how many matches he's lost but his ruthlessness in the ring still makes him a great choice. They could re-book him to be like how he was when he was feuding with Lesnar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only reason to push Black is because the McMahons haven't got their hands all over him and jobbed away his credibility. He's not a Main Event level guy though.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> The only reason to push Black is because the McMahons haven't got their hands all over him and jobbed away his credibility. He's not a Main Event level guy though.


I wouldn’t go that far. He’s definitely main event level. Anyone with the right booking can be. Back when The Miz was a reality star low carder no one thought he was main event level until they started booking him as such. People would have laughed at the thought of it and I’m sure they did until they let him get over with booking. It’s all about presentation.


----------



## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

Ok. I shit on wwe constantly and I still think its a trash company but this was perfect booking. Having him lose in the first match but still coming out strong and credible, do the draft and put him on the same brand as the wwe champ then boom shock everyone and put the title on him at a ppv where nobody saw it coming. This actually made me abit interested and I will probably watch where things are going with this one.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I wouldn’t go that far. He’s definitely main event level. Anyone with the right booking can be. Back when The Miz was a reality star low carder no one thought he was main event level until they started booking him as such. People would have laughed at the thought of it and I’m sure they did until they let him get over with booking. It’s all about presentation.


I agree to an extent.

For example there's really no reason why Heath Slater couldn't be a multiple time World Champion, its all about how the promoter uses them, anyone can be successful.

Blacks too one dimensional for my liking, I want too see more complete Pro Wrestlers getting pushed again rather than just guys who are kinda good at the in ring stuff but also kinda spotty and lacking ring psycology or storytelling. Miz has had all that character, and promo, and story telling stuff down pat for a looong time. Thats the big difference between him and Black. I want more real Pro Wrestlers in the Main Event and less one dimensional workrate guys.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> I agree to an extent.
> 
> For example there's really no reason why Heath Slater couldn't be a multiple time World Champion, its all about how the promoter uses them, anyone can be successful.
> 
> Blacks too one dimensional for my liking, I want too see more complete Pro Wrestlers getting pushed again rather than just guys who are kinda good at the in ring stuff but also kinda spotty and lacking ring psycology or storytelling. Miz has had all that character, and promo, and story telling stuff down pat for a looong time. Thats the big difference between him and Black. I want more real Pro Wrestlers in the Main Event and less one dimensional workrate guys.


I see what you mean, we have had a lot of gymnasts running around in the past 4 years. More talent that’s great all around are definitely needed. I for one think that Black checks all the boxes except on the charisma end. He’s not overly flippy except for when he does the flip moonsault into the sit down spot.


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## Edjoum (May 4, 2018)

I'm pretty sure he will lose the title against Reigns at Wrestlemania (remember, the superhero of the Company, only him can beat The Fiend).


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Still can't believe this happened... :dance


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## Legendary Killer (Mar 24, 2005)

I still feel it was more of a Vince "shock factor" decision. And to make up for the HIAC ending. I'm happy for Bray, but don't see a positive outcome from The Fiend being champion. He can't be beaten so its another Lesnar type reign where he won't even have that many matches. Or since he can't be beaten he's just gonna lose it soon before his reign can become predictable and boring. Not one person alone draws anymore. Having the The Fiend as champion won't be any different.


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## Haza (Aug 21, 2006)

Ray McCarthy said:


> I’m pretty sure Kratosx23 has spent the last month crying and insisting that Bray Wyatt would never be champion after Hell in a Cell because the ‘moment has passed’.


He also said this Bray Wyatt gimmick would never make it onto PPV. Those two are delusional what do you expect


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

Raikkonen said:


> He also said this Bray Wyatt gimmick would never make it onto PPV. Those two are delusional what do you expect


Kratos is cynical neckbeard who will never be happy for his favourite wrestlers. Despite being booked stronger than anyone in the last 15 years lmao


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## PraXitude (Feb 27, 2014)

It was a good match (despite the red lighting garbage) but they have to stop with the 15 curb stomps.


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## tducey (Apr 12, 2011)

Congrats to the Fiend on the title win.


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## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

I've completely missed the entire build-up of The Fiend, but I really am happy for Wyatt. Genuinely. He's a guy that always had potential but WWE always found a way to fuck it up and lose momentum. I'm not huge on Wyatt as a wrestler, but he has good character work and always has. I hope this actually sticks and he has a good run with the title.

I've seen little clips here and there of the Fiend, and I thought it looked pretty well done. The mask is fantastic.

Any good moments you guys would recommend over the past months? I've really missed everything.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

The Fourth Wall said:


> I've completely missed the entire build-up of The Fiend, but I really am happy for Wyatt. Genuinely. He's a guy that always had potential but WWE always found a way to fuck it up and lose momentum. I'm not huge on Wyatt as a wrestler, but he has good character work and always has. I hope this actually sticks and he has a good run with the title.
> 
> I've seen little clips here and there of the Fiend, and I thought it looked pretty well done. The mask is fantastic.
> 
> Any good moments you guys would recommend over the past months? I've really missed everything.


Just watch WWE's Firefly Funhouse playlist

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqIVmFaHA8BqawfdC2_inzUI0KQzjuyCe

and watch his match with Finn Balor at SummerSlam

the matches with Seth Rollins have been messes, but you can watch the title win.






And watch his entrance at SummerSlam 2019 if you haven't seen the lantern. The lantern is amazing.


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## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

Kratosx23 said:


> Just watch WWE's Firefly Funhouse playlist
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqIVmFaHA8BqawfdC2_inzUI0KQzjuyCe
> 
> ...


Thanks. (Y) I did remember watching a little bit of the Firefly Funhouse. I was skeptical at first, but it really showed Wyatt's acting chops. Wasn't sure it would lead anywhere concrete but glad to know I was wrong and they actually followed through with it.

Yeah, I've heard the matches are weird because of the red lighting fucking shit up and the dodgy endings. The lighting seems like something that sounds good on paper character wise but terrible when people are actually trying to see the action.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Bray is very creepy in his body language and the way he moves. It's pretty unique

Ditch the red light and give him more conventional matches like they did vs Finn where he can show off the going on all fours creepy movement stuff


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

*Impatiently waiting for the first Firefly Fun House with Bray Wyatt as the Universal Champion...*


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## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

I've been watching some of the Fiend segments catching up and the character development is pretty awesome to see. I feel like it's rare these days to get good character work in WWE and certainly not on a consistent level to where he's holding the Universal Title now. I don't think many guys have the acting chops to transition from the Firefly Fun House segments to The Fiend so he definitely put a lot of work in. That was always the best part of Wyatt though, as long as they didn't screw him over he did good work on the mic & character wise.


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## ChairShotToTheHead (Jul 22, 2018)

Been so busy the last few days but I had to come in here real quick to say..

Fuck yes!! Finally. Excited to see what comes next.


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## Afi Keita James (Nov 4, 2019)

Jedah said:


> Hey, look at that.
> 
> 4 weeks too late, though. His value is still dented.
> 
> ...


and hopefully aleister black will finally put that clown out of business, bray wyatt claims he cares about people, look what he did to the shield and others, he only cares about himself and his own rise to power, he will never be on the level of the greatness of the undertaker, taker didn't need a kids show, let the fiend retire him, fiend will end up just like the rest, a big time failure.


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## Afi Keita James (Nov 4, 2019)

.christopher. said:


> Having not watched WWE for a long time, reading these posts makes me realise how shitty the roster is, and, despite being champion, I have no interest in watching because the likely opponents for him are trash.
> 
> Only people I'd care to see him feud with are Bryan, Sami and Joe. Sami and Joe are fucked, which leaves 1 person on the entire roster.


and you know Daniel bryan is not intimidated by his acts.
the wyatt family kidnapped bryan, brainwashed him and later he set himself free from the evil wyatts.


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## Afi Keita James (Nov 4, 2019)

raymond1985 said:


> I wouldn't get too excited.
> 
> WWE are going to continue pushing Rollins as the FOTC. WWE will also mess up The Fiend's title reign and ruin the character. In a months time, it will be business as usual.



roman, aleister and undertaker all want revenge against bray wyatt.


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## Afi Keita James (Nov 4, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Well that’s why he needs to be built as a top guy. It won’t take one Black Mass of course. Rollins hit 15 Curbstomps in a row so about 8 Black Masses should do the trick assuming they build up the finisher as the real deal. Have Wyatt sell each Black Mass a little differently. Last one through a glass window. Everyone is “just” something until they are pushed. They can easily take him out of the dark closet and take him seriously.
> 
> Triple H is not facing The Fiend. Lesnar is facing Roman or Cain. Undertaker at this point is not winning any gold. Having Seth go over at Mania in Part 3 would be asinine. Roman is definitely a possibility though.
> 
> But fuck that I want Black. It’s darkness vs darkness and it writes itself. Everyone is scared of The Fiend except for Black. Dark clown vs the Destroyer. That’s how they should book it. You already had the FOTC crying in the corner. A Black/Fiend program for Mania would be so fuckin dope and I hope they do it. The promo dynamic between the two would be some intriguing television. Nobody wants to see Roman Reigns Superman lunch his way to more gold. They need to make Black a real star.


reigns is good (reigns knows he is not intimidated by the fiend and will never forgive that man for what he did to the shield), but black is gold, but you got to admit, seth superkick and throwing the fiend down out of the stadium having him electrocuted was amazing, proves that he is not intimidated by the fiend.

I hope black finally destroys that clown and puts him out of business and the 2 hounds of justice (seth and roman) finally arrest bray wyatt for all of his crimes including threatening roman's daughter and attempted murder, conspiracy to commit attempted murder, solicitation to attempted murder.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

No Bray/Brock at Survivor Series. Huge missed opportunity.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Emmanuelle said:


> No Bray/Brock at Survivor Series. Huge missed opportunity.


Unfortunately, they don't want to beat Brock.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Pretty much. It's weird that both the women's match and the tag team match are champion vs. champion vs. champion, yet Brock defends his title. The Fiend could've won by count-out thanks to Rey interfering or something. Now let's see who Bray is facing, IF he's facing someone.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Emmanuelle said:


> Pretty much. It's weird that both the women's match and the tag team match are champion vs. champion vs. champion, yet Brock defends his title. The Fiend could've won by count-out thanks to Rey interfering or something. Now let's see who Bray is facing, IF he's facing someone.


I'm sure the Universal Champion will be left off a big 4 PPV.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

I can see The Fiend facing Braun. Bryan or Roman would be too soon and I don't think Kofi or Big E are going to challenge him now.


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## Rise (Jul 21, 2014)

Emmanuelle said:


> No Bray/Brock at Survivor Series. Huge missed opportunity.




Nah to soon. I really hope when they do launch this money match it’s Brock who starts it. Still waiting for a Wyatt feud that he doesn’t start, this would be the perfect one. If not him I’m hoping Cena starts one whenever he gets some time to run a program.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Two weeks to build Bryan/Fiend at Survivor Series. Pretty weird given that Bryan was already involved in a storyline with Sami and Shinsuke, but maybe they will try to recruit him again after he loses to Bray. Sami can argue that loner Bryan is weak and always loses, so he needs him by his side, but Bryan will revive the Yes! Movement instead.

Anyway, I think it's too soon for this feud and it makes obvious that Bray's WrestleMania opponent is going to be Roman. Yikes.


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