# Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Sorry Cal , it was time for a fresh thread. Previous one - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1000865-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html

I'll keep the Cal scale in the OP:



> The Cal Scale
> 
> NO = -1
> DUD-* = 0
> ...



So yeah snowflakes, reviews, discussions on DVDs and the past and present shows.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

reposting this as I posted it like 2 minutes before the old thread closed 










*Money In the bank 2013 review *

*Match #1: Antonio Cesaro vs Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Dean Ambrose vs Wade Barret vs Fandango vs Jack Swagger *

So we open up the PPV and Fandango and Ambrose get jobber entrances, HEYY THE REAL AMERICANS ARE HERE! Zeb cuts a promo on Philly thats probably true, love the Betsey Ross should have sewn a taco on the flag line, so funny . Cody and Sandow cut a promo, feels lackluster after Zeb's but still pretty funny nonetheless. I've seen this a few times already but I love the teamwork by the RA and the Rhodes Scholars in the beginning, GO CESARO! Swagger has really grown on me recently, learning from a great like Cesaro must be why, I mean, the guy got a GOOD match out of the fucking Miz. Why is Fandango in this BTW? Dude is nowhere near the level of EVERYONE else in the match, put like, REIGNS in there instead, then you have 3 teams and...Wade Barett . Love the use of the ladders in this, they basically use it the entire match, things like Suplexes and DDT's onto the ladders are a constant presence in the match, and it makes the match much better. Wade Barret almost wins at one point, I remember watching this live I actually got worried, but Fandango pulls off an awesome move, I MISS THE SUMMER . The Dean Ambrose spot is pretty cool but why did he have to botch it? Still pretty cool I guess. Its so when the RA try to get the briefcase without the ladder, but even more worthy when Rhodes breaks them up. A this is awesome chant breaks out, and it certainly is. I love the multiple cross rhodes rhodes does, so awesome! In the end Sandow turns on his best friend, not as meaningful due to him not even getting a title out of it, but still an awesome match nonetheless. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5*
*
Match #2: The Miz(sucks) vs Curtis Axel(also sucks) 
*
Oh dear, I cannot remember for the life of me how bad this is'. mean, its gonna be bad, but if I'm lucky it'll be like ** or something like that. Why is Wade Barret not getting a rematch? God I know I watched WWE this summer but cannot remember shit apparently, well this doesn't matter at all so whatever. Thank god Heyman isn't wasting his time with someone like Axel anymore, but he does need a new cient besides Lesnar, Sandow maybe? Axel is laugahbly bad when he yells in Miz's face "I'm the champion!"okay Curtis, whatever. I never got the Miz getting Heyman ejected, can we say WORST FACE EVER! We want Heyman chants begin, Vince is in the back laughing at his fans misory of course. God this is so bland, just boring brawling between two of the worst performers in the company, feels like it lasts a million years long too, really bad match. *

*CAL SCALE: 0

Match #3: AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn *

I remember this not living up to the PB match at all, but from the SD clip they played Kaitlyn is so fucking bad on the mic, worse than Axel I think. God that butterfly belt is so fucking ugly. Cole talks about how Kaitlyn has no friends, but Lawler chimes in about how hes friends with her on Facebook, of course you are king . Well this was another bland match, and a big letdown to me, better than the IC title match but that is no compliment of course. I enjoyed the PB match but found this to be boring besides the awesome spear and the black widow. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5 *

*Match #4: Ryback vs Chris Jericho *

This is the last PPV match to date for Y2J, sadly, its against one of the worst workers in the company, remember this being laughably bad, tempted to slap a NO on it, ah whatever I’ll watch it. CRYBACK! CRYBACK! really not looking forward to this. God this show was booked horrendously, putting three filler matches in a row, dont forget the terrible Brad Maddox segment. This gets WAY too much time, feels like 4 hours but I think it ended up being like 15 minutes in total, crowd is DEAD as shit for this and I dont blame em at all. GOLDBERG chants begin, their pretty annoying because his gimmick is NOTHING like Goldbergs . So this was the fucking worst match of the night, no contest, might be my least favorite Jericho match of all time, no joke. Fuck you Ryback. DUD

*CAL SCALE: 0 *

*Match #5: Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio *

Wow huge pop for Ziggler, forgot how over he was at this time, pretty painful when you think about it because now nobody seems to give a shit about him. Of course their PB match is amazing, ****1/2 and my #2 MOTY, 1st is Punk/Lesnar so for a couple months it was in fact my MOTY. Crowd is pretty hot for this match it seems, not suprised consider was so over at this time. One thing I dont like about this match is the fact that they play up the concussion angle again. Really? I'm pretty sure that the concussion is gone 2 months after it happened. ZIggler still stole like a fucking boss though so its okay. Del Rio actually gets some solid heat in this match at some points, trust me I'm not lying rewatch the match. As good as the beginning portion of this match is good the middle portion is quite dull, pretty unfortunate but its still a good match nonetheless. I completely forgot about the ending to this match too, its so bad its not even funny. Fuck the ending, but the match was pretty solid nonetheless. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3* 

*Match #6: Mark Henry vs John Cena *

Oh this match was a solid MOTYC all year long, think it ended out at #8 or some shit like that. Of course the buildup to this was with that retirement tease, such great shit. Did they ever have other matches? So pretty pumped for the rewatch here, but I wish that Henry won, because Henry as WWE champ = . Henry is pretty dominant early on in this, not too surprising I guess but weren't there some folks that said this made Henry look weak? If so, it must be for the finish alone. Henry is carrying the shit out of this too, not a BAD match by Cena, but Henry is main it fucking great. Another BIG lift for Henry by kicking out of the AA, if he just lost by pin it would have been fine, its the tapping that bothers me. However, despite these complaints, the match is holding up so well. last 5-10 mins of this are so , crowd thought there was ZERO chance that henry would win and he made them fucking believe it. Really good match but the ending made it lose at LEAST 1/4*, but besides that its a great match, brutally underrated as well. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5

Match #7: RVD vs Christian vs Sheamus vs CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton 
*
I basically haven’t seen this before, stream was fecking terrible and I just never got the time to rewatch it, but looking forward to it here. BIG pop for RVD of course, I used to be a big fan of the guy but I've gone down on my opinion of him, still think hes pretty good but not GREAT. Love the beginning of the match where they all just beat the shit out of RVD. thought it as always shitty that Kane never got replaced BTW, they just ignored that and moved on with 6, BOO! Punk and Bryan confrontation was so as well, crowd knew the hisory behind it too, which was pretty awesome. Interesting that theirs no ladders or shit early, because its so different than the opener, which was ALL ladder spots it felt like. RVD finally gets some offense in and the crowd goes insane, Philly always seems like a hot crowd it seems. RVD botches a move early too, crowd doesn't seem to notice and just get hotter for the guy it seems. This match makes me miss Sheamus, because this was his last PPV, gonna be looking for the spot where he gets injured. OH SHIT IT JUST HAPPENED, that shit looked PAINFUL! Stupid RVD hurting better wrestlers, not even 10 min into his return no less. Fella is still being so awesome in this, WHILE INJURED no less. pretty fun match so far, not getting the hate at all here, oh yeah because BOO HOO D-BRY LOST! Crowd honestly thought Bryan was gonna win but AXEL interferes? what? bah, thats so dumb. Then the Heyman interference that everyone saw coming I think, and Punks out as well. In the end Orton wins and the WWE has been going down ever since he won the title. Decent match, third best MOTN. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE:4 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 17.5*​


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RIP Cal's streak of threads started. 



smitty915 said:


> In the end Orton wins and the WWE has been going *down* ever since he won the title.


UP.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> RIP Cal's streak of threads started.
> 
> 
> 
> UP.


:kobe


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Post-SummerSlam was pretty good with the Authority forming and everyone was enjoying it. It only started going downhill from Night of Champions with the vacant angle. But it has picked back up since Survivor Series and I can only expect it to get better in the upcoming months.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

the string of bad PPVS is what troubles me, so much that I'm afraid that if I order the rumble then it might blow and then I just wasted 50 bucks

I ordered all three summer PPVS and was happy with my purchase each time, rare that that occurs


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## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

WWE started going down ever since Summerslam. Not because of Orton, but because of stupid nonsensical programming that made no sense.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The authority storyline was good after SummerSlam when Orton joined them, the nonsensical stupidity didn't happen until after Night of Champions which is when things really started going downhill.

And smitty, there's something called streams. If you're not sure about the PPV quality, you use those!


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It was far too early to start anew. I give the last thread a solid ***1/2. Maybe less because we didn't have enough EVAN and too much :jpl

Guys please go watch Smackdown. Both Shield matches and the tag title match were really really good.


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## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

*I'm glad to see a fresh thread, as it will allow my newbie self the opportunity to keep up with it from the beginning. Looking forward to participating in the discussions...*


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh I use streams all the time, haven't bought a PPV since SS, because I felt they weren't worth a purchase. If I see a PPV that has a match I want to fully enjoy live in HD on my flat screen, I'll pay for it. But has NOC-TLC warranted a PPV worth the money? Hell no, and I'm afraid that even though I really want to see the rumble in HD, I'll end up regretting it. 

Lets talk about Benjamin/Jericho matches :mark:


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## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Money in the Bank was a really great show. I just wish they would have given Ziggler the win. I've been to 4 PPVs last year and I would say it's easily the best. Pretty low competition as the 4 I went to were Wrestlemania, Money in the Bank, Battleground, and Survivor Series.


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## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Ambrose was fucking gold on commentary on Smackdown this week. He talked a hell of a lot but he actually spoke about his ties with Rollins and Reigns rather than spouting off about random shit like Cole and JBL normally do. Shield are (and always have been) complete workhorses in 2013 and their matches with The Usos/Usos and Punk just prove it further. They continue into 2014, will be sad to see them go. Just gold all round.

Wyatts vs. Brotherhood was also excellent. Hard to imagine that Goldust is the best in-ring shape he's ever been in the WWE so far. All four guys were great, and Rowan is improving all the time.


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## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

I never order PPVs, if it turns out to be a good event I'll just buy the DVD when it comes out.


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## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

2013 has been pretty terrible for ppvs. I was at payback, it wasn't bad, but nothing great either. Ziggler vs Del Rio was awesome and Punk vs Jericho was pretty solid IMO (I know it gets hate)

Other then that I HATED PAYBACK. Didn't care for the tag match at all, Kane vs Ambrose was awful and Cena vs Ryback I gave 2 shits about. Meaningless filler fued for Cena. Summerslam was easily show of the year for me. 

Top 2013 ppvs 

1. Summerslam 
2. MITB 
3. Royal Rumble
4. Payback 
5. Elimination Chamber 
6. WM ( I guess? ) 
7. HIAC/TLC 

The rest can pretty much fuck off lol. Still can't get over how bad WM was this year. Very poorly/Lazy booking for WM 29.


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## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

A large reaso why Wrestlemania failed for me this year was because there were no pre-match interviews. These are so effective. Each match occurred 'just because they had to'.

A pre-match interview from Ryback before his match with Henry would've added so much more, just for one example.


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## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

This year was terrible for pay per views, but awesome on live TV. Puzzling.

Watching Hogan vs. Warrior and can't get into it at all.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Authority Angle was great for a couple of weeks after Summerslam... then they kept doing basically the same thing over and over again... then Orton lost the title... then another thing basically happens over and over again... then Big Show somehow gets thrown into it... then Cena...

The angle hasn't been anything except "bad" since NOC. Whole main event scene has sucked since NOC for that matter. Punk/Heyman was well over-played by that point, Authority Angle got really bad, Punk-Bryan/The Wyatts and the respective feuds of Punk and Bryan with The Shield and The Wyatts, while not terrible, haven't been anything good outside of Bray teasing Bryan joining the Wyatts, and then this past week with Bryan finally joining The Wyatts. 

As far as PPV's go, only ones I'd call "good or better" are Summerslam and Payback. Summerslam was just amazing, and Payback was a solid all around show, with one of the best matches of the year in Ziggler/Del Rio, and a great bout between Punk and Jericho. PPV scene has been terrible. Stopped ordering them after Summerslam. Can't remember the last time I went through this many PPV's in a row without ordering them. Ironically enough, I have more money than ever before. But hey, the best stuff has been happening on TV all year round.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If we're doing 2013 PPV rankings

1: Summerslam( Obviously)
2: MITB
3: Payback 
4: Elimination Chamber 
5: WM 29
6: Extreme Rules
7: TLC 
8: HIAC 
9: Battleground
10: Royal Rumble 
11: Survivor Series 
12: Night Of champions


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Raging Eboue said:


> I never order PPVs, if it turns out to be a good event I'll just buy the DVD when it comes out.


The only ppv I ever bought was WrestleMania.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MITB... what was so special about that show? Can't recall too much from it aside from that I think the WWE Title ladder match was abysmal, the WHC ladder match was awesome, Ziggler/Del Rio's rematch, while fine, wasn't anything to write home about and a big step down from their PB match. Cena/Henry wasn't anything bad, but wasn't anything good either. And um... what else? It would probably be in my top 5 of the year due to the WHC MITB match, but that's not saying much for this year.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam, MITB, Chamber and Extreme Rules are the only PPVs I really liked this year. To an extent the Royal Rumble too.

MITB was probably the most consistent with the two ladder and title matches all being good to great.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I have 2 **** matches, a ***3/4 ME and a ***1/2 world title match, for MITB thought it was pretty damn good TBH

can we all agree NOC was the worst this year?


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## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I have 2 **** matches, a ***3/4 ME and a ***1/2 world title match, for MITB thought it was pretty damn good TBH
> 
> can we all agree NOC was the worst this year?




Absolutely. 

At least battleground had the Rhodes/Shield match.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

and the RVD/ADR hardcore match wasn't too bad too 

bout to put in my BP 09 DVD for some reason, thoughts on this show?


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## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The 4 matches I remember from BP 09 weren't too bad 

Orton/Cena I quit: ***1/2
Punk/Taker *** (lame finish)
Regal/Christian **3/4
Dx/Legacy **3/4


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Meh, 2003 was a bad year for PPVs but that year still kicked ass. Of course, that was during the brand split era when the man that shall not be named main evented/ruined half the PPVs.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Regal/Christian only at **3/4? I specifically remember that being awesome, all the Regal/Christian matches were in 09 par the SS squash

EDIT: You guys like the name change? Got rid of those pesky numbers


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## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm really looking forward to the Rumble. The current strong roster mixed up with a couple one off appearances guarantees quality. Batista returning a week before really ruined the anticipation a little to be honest. Before the announcement I had at least 4 different people in mind on winning this. With Batista brought in I can only imagine him or Punk winning this. Bryan seems less and less likely. Lesnar said he doesn't need to win the Rumble, he gets his N1 contender match either way. Cena/Randy are certainly going to have a better than at TLC. With Brock rumored on having a singles match this could turn out to be an explosive PPV. 

RTWM excitement is the best excitement. Do not fuck this up.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Cal? I don't like change.

*subscription post


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono posting in here ? New thread to ? Woah


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

YAY new thread! :mark: 

I threw in Royal Rumble 1998. LOVE this PPV and start to finish probably my fave Royal Rumble PPV. So much fun. 

Really enjoy the title match. Goldust v :vader is fun, Rock/Shamrock, NAO v LOD, a fun Rumble (though predictable) with Cactus Jack, Dude Love AND Mankind!! :mark: 




funnyfaces1 said:


> Guys please go watch Smackdown. Both Shield matches and the tag title match were really really good.


Yes they were. Really liked the tag titles match. 



THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Ambrose was fucking gold on commentary on Smackdown this week.


That he was. Very very good.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm willing to bet the Shield match this week on Smackdown isn't worth seeing.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

usos vs. rollins/reigns #23456


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## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Sono posting in here ?


Limited appearances :brock


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only watching Smackdown just for the tag team championship match.

Lets try not and spoil that either. Keep some mystique around this place.


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## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> The 4 matches I remember from BP 09 weren't too bad
> 
> Orton/Cena I quit: ***1/2
> Punk/Taker *** (lame finish)
> ...


Agree on most, but I really loved that DX/Legacy match. Actually felt like an all-out brawl and legacy getting DAT CLEAN WIN :mark:

***3/4


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

coulda sworn you were implying you wanted to know about the shield match


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No. I know it's involving the shitty Usos. Aka why I bet it isn't worth seeing. b/c most vs those chumps aren't. Lazy booking wins WWE again.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bout to watch Smackdown myself.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

oh now I understood, yea the mystic has pretty much wore off for me tbhayley, I understand their "quality" but thanks you wwe for giving us a varation of usos/rhodes.bros vs. real americans/shield 2x a week weekly for months now


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sono Shion said:


> Limited appearances :brock


Via satellite? :rock


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Shield hasn't worn off. It's just the Usos offer nothing on their side that it's the same yawnfest every time. No point in seeing it when the peak was hit all the way back at MITB. Even on that night I only felt the last three minutes meant something b/c that atmosphere was so hot. It made it feel bigger than it was.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd much rather watch The Usos wrestle than any Ray Traylor match.

Except for the Vader carryjobs.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really enjoyed MitB. My second fave PPV of 2013 after Summerslam. With Elimination Chamber 3rd. I actually enjoyed the rematch from unk4 :rock2

bring it on smarks :curry2 



The Primer said:


> the peak was hit all the way back at MITB. Even on that night I only felt the last three minutes meant something b/c that atmosphere was so hot. It made it feel bigger than it was.


I do agree with this...that match was a lot of fun.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ray Traylor match.


Bossman hate? Whats up with that? I'm curious.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's incredibly awful. Should be ashamed.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just want to antagonize. That's about it. That, and I just watched Armageddon 1999 where he faced Big Show in a WWE Title match. Horrible as expected. I'll still respect Bossman for having those awesome matches with Hogan, but I'm not too big on fatties. Usos still rule though. DAT CORKSCREW MOONSAULT

Now I'm watching The Headbangers beat the crap out of ICP. This may very well be my favorite segment of the Attitude Era. Now can we please see the same thing happen to One Republic today?


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching The Cruncher's stuff now, if you dont know who that is shame


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anybody got Austin/Angle SS 01 over Austin/Rock WM X7?


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> watching The Cruncher's stuff now, if you dont know who that is shame


who wouldn't itt?


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Now I'm watching The Headbangers beat the crap out of ICP. This may very well be my favorite segment of the Attitude Era. Now can we please see the same thing happen to One Republic today?


YES! 

And Nickelback! Someone put Chad Kroger in the camel clutch, break his fucking back and make him humble!! :mark:

God, ICP is/was fucking awful.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I just want to antagonize. That's about it. That, and I just watched Armageddon 1999 where he faced Big Show in a WWE Title match. Horrible as expected. I'll still respect Bossman for having those awesome matches with Hogan, but I'm not too big on fatties. Usos still rule though. DAT CORKSCREW MOONSAULT


Attitude Era squash match on a PPV. Not the same thing. But they suck regardless. The tag team equivalent to Kofi Kingston. A whisper in the wind won't make me like them. Mediocrity these days is so celebrated. I miss the 80's.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anybody got Austin/Angle SS 01 over Austin/Rock WM X7?


By a bazillion miles & some other non-realistic number.

------------

Rhodes Dynasty vs Harper & Rowan III was good. Central focus was on the the Rhodes being engulfed by the heels more than usual. They changed things up again to keep it fresh & interesting. Loved how the finish was done too. Worth a look. That's something the 2014 TV list already. 

That smackdown was so pointless on the whole pardon the championship match. You can tell they filmed it early as most was incredible filler. WWE are really going to try and have Langston do something w/Brock. :lmao Wow. This company needs to die w/their force feeding of telling us who to care about. Jesus christ. If it is anything but a squash or a segment on RAW, some great act of science help us all.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Meh, 2003 was a bad year for PPVs but that year still kicked ass. Of course, that was during the brand split era when the man that shall not be named main evented/ruined half the PPVs.


Vengeance 2003 says hello


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^(Y)

Fantastic show.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WrestleMania 19 and No Mercy too 

But yeah, the rest sucks. Royal Rumble = good opener, good Main Event, ABOMINATION of a midcard. No Way Out = meh. Backlash = MEH. Judgment Day = MEEEH. Insurrextion = could've been worse I guess. Bad Blood = letdown. SummerSlam = Smackdown saved it. Unforgiven = sucked outside of maybe two matches. Survivor Series = one match show. Armageddon = total MEHfest.

So there you go.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NWO is actually pretty darn good up until the triple main event. Austin vs Bischoff is fine, but the other two are so awful that a squash doesn't hold up too well. Undertaker vs Show is epic.

I'm a big SummerSlam 2003 fan too. Survivor Series is more than a one match show for this fan. Wait, who said this year was bad for PPVs? I disagree.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Show, Kidman/Matt and Jericho/Jeff were all good. Austin/Bischoff, given how much of an Austin fan I am, ruled, but c'mon, it was a fucking squash. The rest is as good as Backlash 2002 - which is to say nothing was good. Hell, NWO 2003 is an upgraded Backlash 2002 itself: three matches, two of them between cruiserweights and/or upper midcarders, saved the show. And there was a barrage of Main Events, attractive looking ones, that sucked.

Survivor Series not a match show? Only if Team Angle/Team Lesnar was more than what I remember - solid at best. Team Austin/Team Bischoff is the only stand-out as far as I know. Rest was nothing for my eyes - including the solid at best opener. Maybe I'm just biased because Team Lesnar DIDN'T APPEAL TO ME AT FUCKING ALL.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Handicap was good. Overrated by a lot, but I'll give it it's due as a solid/pretty good contest. Dug Kane & RVD vs Regal & Storm. The concussion bit didn't flare up in a fashion to hurt the match. Only two matches not worth seeing on it. Like I said, it's just too bad they were main events.

Team Angle vs Team Lesnar
Kane vs Shane
Los Guerreros vs Bashams (in what may be the most solid Bashams match ever b/c they were god awful)
Team Austin vs Team Bischoff
Undertaker vs Vince

Women's championship was fine, but obviously mediocre. Still, nothing offensive so it played it's role fine enough on a card. Goldberg vs Triple H was bad. No denying that. I like seeing Goldberg kick ass so at least there's a point to where I have a tiny chunk of motivation whenever it's on to not turn it off. Show is a-ok.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Read in a thread the other day about this, and someone said it was 'edited' off the official
DVD Version (probably why i dont remember it), but here is the _Live PPV Version_ of the ending to the match where Taker 'appears' to say something to the ref regarding Batista:

*The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania 23 Ending)*


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Handicap to me was just there. Very fun stuff, sure, and many of those that watch wrestling only care about how fun a match is so it worked (which explains so much about Kurt Angle), but on a storytelling aspect, which is why I watch wrestling in the first place, it's there for absolutely nothing to me. And your SVS argument - imo Kane/Shane II and Guerreros/Bashams were mediocre and Vince/Taker was just a Mortal Kombat squash come to life, with KaneVince pulling a fatality at the last minute for his own luck. Again, fun, but not enough for me.

Though I'll admit that each of those shows has at least one very enjoyable match. Most of them were carried by SD anyway - especially SummerSlam. The only show carried by Raw was SVS, and even then it only had one truly good match and the Main Event was Godawful so yeah.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambulance Match will be loved for eternity. And I'll never tire of the Undertaker slaughter on Vince. It's golden in my eyes. Both of those sum up aspects that fit what the time dubbed by some as the "Ruthless Agression Era" was to me.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I actually don't remember, but why were Taker/Vince feuding?


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## Raw2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> Ambulance Match will be loved for eternity. And I'll never tire of the Undertaker slaughter on Vince. It's golden in my eyes. Both of those sum up aspects that fit what the time dubbed by some as the "Ruthless Agression Era" was to me.


Ambulance match don't you mean their buried alive match at SVS '03? Unless this happened on some Smackdown show I don't remember seeing. It.


Clint Eastwood said:


> I actually don't remember, but why were Taker/Vince feuding?


It was all about Vince stopping the Undertaker from becoming WWE Champion ever again and a taker wanting to get rid of Vince for good.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kane/Shane was the Ambulance match.

To each his own Cody. Never thought much of those other than just entertainment. I can't give Vince/Taker a bad rating for what it was, of course, but no way I'd see it with love and heart either.


----------



## Raw2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

ATF said:


> Kane/Shane was the Ambulance match.


Right that's what I thought


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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Talking about two different matches, chief.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Rhodes vs Wyatts was very good, Cody is really a great performer ( amazing athleticism shown, and I really mark for his moonsault everytime, it's fantastic) , and the finish to the match was very interesting. I'll give it ***1/4-***1/2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think I might go out on a limb and say that Vince has been one of the most FUN workers since the turn of the millennium. He's never going to have out and out great matches, but I'll be damned if he doesn't entertain the hell out of me. He even put on awesome match in 2012, at the age of 70 or whatever he is. Dude is amazeballs.

vs. Punk
vs. HBK
vs. Taker
vs. Brock
vs. STEPH~!
vs. Shane
vs. Austin


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> I think I might go out on a limb and say that Vince has been one of the most FUN workers since the turn of the millennium. He's never going to have out and out great matches, but I'll be damned if he doesn't entertain the hell out of me. He even put on awesome match in 2012, at the age of 70 or whatever he is. Dude is amazeballs.
> 
> vs. Punk
> vs. HBK
> ...


Zach Gowen too


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Zach Gowen too


:faint:

How did I forget :lmao

Vince's 2003 > HHH's 2003? 8*D

Edit: FORGOT VS. HOGAN AS WELL. FUCK MY LIFE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> :faint:
> 
> How did I forget :lmao
> 
> Vince's 2003 > HHH's 2003? 8*D


WCW 2000 > HHH's 2003 :side:

Saying that, i did like Trips/Booker (fuck the finish though), and the Goldberg mark in me makes me watch one of the Goldie/Trips matches. Possibly the HBK match too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Vince is the tops.

Then there is the Shawn Michaels match that none of his obnoxious marks praise but should vs Vince in what may be the best squash seen on a big stage.

Vinny Mac knows how to come through in the clutch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Clique decided to make a new thread huh? We normally wait until we get 10,000+ posts. But it seems SOMEONE wanted to beat me to making the new thread so SOMEONE didn't even let the old one get to 9000. SHAME ON YOU CLIQUE .

I saw someone give Regal/Christian from Breaking Point **3/4? LOL.

Austin/Angle is indeed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock/Austin.

Vince/Hogan SUCKS.

SummerSlam 03 is great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least that ended w/SummerSlam 2003 is great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Batista/Punk GAB 08. Middle part got a tad dull and wasn't as good as the JBL match (both were focused on attacking Punk's back)... but then it shot ahead of the JBL match once Punk started a comeback with those awesome kicks. Then it fell apart again when Kane showed up and attacked them both for reasons I can't remember in the slightest. Bah. Overall good and fun though, wish it had a finish but I guess WWE didn't want to put Punk over Batista... cunts. ***1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finish is such a jip. Too bad, although it doesn't hurt things much for me. Thought the styles clash among the two gave the match a neat vibe & it's what made the match so appealing for me. Won't deny Punk being the catalyst for it meshing so well. Batista bringing his power game to the table did enough to hold his end too. I liked this match more than what he'd produce vs Cena come SummerSlam.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Any TV matches worth seeing during Punk's 08 title reign? I know of the JBL match, owt else?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of his matches:

vs JBL - 6/30
vs Gene Snitsky - 7/7
vs Kane - 7/14
vs Batista - 7/21
vs William Regal - 7/28
vs Chris Jericho & JBL - 8/4
vs Chris Jericho - 8/18
vs JBL - 8/25
vs Kane vs JBL vs Batista _(Battle Royal)_ - 9/1

Take your pick at what pops out at ya. I remember liking most of these. Except for the Battle Royal. Which was short & just bleh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I decided to, in preparation for the upcoming Royal Rumble show, I've decided to rewatch three old folks that stick out, one for right reasons, one for wrong reasons, and one for... both:

Rumble 2002:
Dudleys/Tazz & Spike: ***
Edge/Regal: ***1/2
Trish/Jazz: **3/4
Vince/Flair: ***1/4
Jericho/Rock: ****
RR Match: ****1/2

Rumble 2003:
Lesnar/Show: ***1/2
Regal & Storm/Dudleys: **
Torrie/Dawn: DUD of DUD's
HHH/Steiner: DUD
Angle/Benoit: **3/4 (sorry but it's just too fun and wrecky for me to hideously hate it like I once did)
RR Match: ***1/2

Rumble 2004:
Flair & Batista/Dudleys: DUD
Rey/Noble: 3/4*
Eddie/Chavo: 3/4*
Lesnar/Holly: DUD
HHH/HBK: **
RR Match: ****1/2

So yeah: 2002 is a Top 5, maybe 3 Rumble show ever; 2003... delievers on opener and Main Event but its midcard sucks; 2004 just sucks, period, and it may have one of the best RR matches ever, but that doesn't save the show from the craphole.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really enjoy :hbk :taker casket match at Royal Rumble 1998. Just a lot of fun. 




Prime Evil said:


> I'm a big SummerSlam 2003 fan too.


Very underrated PPV. 



Clint Eastwood said:


> Read in a thread the other day about this, and someone said it was 'edited' off the official
> DVD Version (probably why i dont remember it), but here is the _Live PPV Version_ of the ending to the match where Taker 'appears' to say something to the ref regarding Batista:
> 
> *The Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania 23 Ending)*


Ref....um Dave, Mr. Taker would like you to leave the ring, you are taking away from him celebrating with his minions of darkness. Also, you owe him 10 lbs of eye liner. 


Taker is obviously a jerk. :troll



Prime Evil said:


> Talking about two different matches, chief.


Sport, hoss, buddy or homie are probably more fitting haha.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Prime Evil said:


> All of his matches:
> 
> vs JBL - 6/30
> vs Gene Snitsky - 7/7
> ...


Fuck it, downloading all the shows from when he wins it to the 8/25 show .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Sport, hoss, buddy or homie are probably more fitting haha.


I'm a chief guy, chief.

But a Raiders fan always.



King Cal said:


> Fuck it, downloading all the shows from when he wins it to the 8/25 show .


Watch the Cena & Batista vs Rhodes & DiBiase Jr tag team championship match too - first one - if you're doing that. Match is AWESOME.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Going to a WWE house show tonight, missing the Eagles/Saints game but Saints will destroy so not too upset 

What should I expect from a house show for the WWE?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> So Clique decided to make a new thread huh? We normally wait until we get 10,000+ posts. But it seems SOMEONE wanted to beat me to making the new thread so SOMEONE didn't even let the old one get to 9000. SHAME ON YOU CLIQUE .
> 
> I saw someone give Regal/Christian from Breaking Point **3/4? LOL.
> 
> ...



I legit laughed when I saw that. **3/4 for Christian/Regal BP? :lmao

That match got ****1/2 from me on last watch, and is runner up to HBK/Taker WM25 for MotY 2009. I have it slightly above the ECW TV match they had in England.

Austin/Angle SS01' is a top 5 match in WWE History for me, so yes >>>>>>>>Rock/Austin WM17. Angle puts on a baby face performance for the ages in that one, and that's easily Austin's best heel performance of his entire career. Doesn't get too much better than that one. When Angle catches Austin on the barricade in the Ankle lock and let's out that Nature Boy "WHOOOOOO" :mark: :mark:

God the Usos are just whack. There is no getting around it. They are a tag team version of Kofi Kingston. Nothing they do looks like it hurts worth a damn and all their shit is just cheesy. I guess if I was 8 years old I could see the appeal.

Edit-Smitty I'm going to a house show in the next few weeks too for the first time in ages so I'll let you know. The main even is Bray vs Danielson in a cage, pretty excited for it. I think Punk is taking on the Shield too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^He's not my alt. I swear. Only a guy who knows what's up. :hayley1


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

****1/2 for Christian/Regal @ BP? Wow. I have it at like ***3/4-**** myself. BP 2009 is an underrated show tbh, shame Punk/Taker was close to Letdown Of The Year for 2009 (HHH/Orton at nº1 of course).

And comparing it to **3/4... man. I bet my ass that if I call a YouTuber to come here to commentate, y'all will crap on everything he says :lol It'd be awesome, but poor guy/girl.

And speaking of awesome, who here plays/played *Psychonauts?* :mark:... wrestling too :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I have a little theory. There is a massive difference between a "sports entertainer" (for lack of a better word) and a professional wrestler. The Usos, Kofi Kingston, the Miz, Santino, etc are sports entertainers. They are not out there trying out on legitimate looking athletic contests. They are just trying to "entertain" us. Guys like Danielson, Punk, Lesnar, Taker, Regal, Cesaro, Sheamus, etc. are professional wrestlers. They go to great lengths to make sure what they do looks legitimate. The fact that they entertain us is just a side effect of them working so hard to make us believe it's real.

When the WWE tries to entertain me and a lot of fans I know, they generally fail. When they just say fuck the bullshit and give us matches were the guys act like winning is a matter of life or death, that's when they succeed. That's what happened with Regal/Cesaro on NXT. I just wish they would stop focusing so hard on being entertaining, that usually results in the abortions like the Strahan segment, which is probably the single worst thing I've seen on WWE TV in ages.

Edit-ATF I am a self confessed mark for any and all things Regal, so that's definitely going to inflate my rating slightly. But that match is just beautiful to me. I don't know that I would really change a thing about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Usos and Kof Kingston. Now there is a 3 man team from hell.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Never seen hbk/Vince actually, only thing I know from it is the elbow drop 

Yea I think most have Austin/angle over Austin /rock, the latter is one of my 10 *****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Never seen hbk/Vince actually, only thing I know from it is the elbow drop
> 
> Yea I think most have Austin/angle over Austin /rock, the latter is one of my 10 *****



For real? Man you need to get on that, it's HBK beating the ever loving shit outta Vince for 15 solid minutes. Sooooo much fun. He really lays it on thick too, I guess to make it more believable. I have all the respect in the world for Vince, at 60+ taking an ass kicking like that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well cactus considering I'm going tonight I guess I'll let YOU know how it is 

Just finished BP 09, here are some ratings, bout to start JD 04 next

Jerishow/MVP and Henry: *1/2 
Kofi/Miz: DUD
Legacy/DX: ***
Kane/Khali: DUD 
Christian/Regal: ****1/4 
Orton/Cena: ***3/4
Taker/Punk" ***1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> For real? Man you need to get on that, it's HBK beating the ever loving shit outta Vince for 15 solid minutes. Sooooo much fun. He really lays it on thick too, I guess to make it more believable. I have all the respect in the world for Vince, at 60+ taking an ass kicking like that.


Nope, one of the only big :hbk2 matches Ive never seen. I feel we have this "Youve never seen this ?" convo all the time, this is what happens when your parents hate wrestling and never brought you and your brother PPVs


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> MITB... what was so special about that show? Can't recall too much from it aside from that I think the WWE Title ladder match was abysmal, the WHC ladder match was awesome, Ziggler/Del Rio's rematch, while fine, wasn't anything to write home about and a big step down from their PB match. Cena/Henry wasn't anything bad, but wasn't anything good either. And um... what else? It would probably be in my top 5 of the year due to the WHC MITB match, but that's not saying much for this year.


*I had 5 matches from Money in the Bank (including the pre-show tag) on my 2013 MOTYC list. They are as follows:

John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ****1/4
Dean Ambrose vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Jack Swagger - ****
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Christian vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus - ****
Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4
The Shield (Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins) vs. The Usos (Jey Uso and Jimmy Uso) - ***3/4

Because of that consistency, I would have to consider MITB 2013 to be the best overall PPV of the year, from my perspective.*


SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anybody got Austin/Angle SS 01 over Austin/Rock WM X7?


*I haven't seen either match in so long. Personally, I have always been fond of Austin/Rock from WrestleMania X-7, but I don't think I've seen the Austin/Angle match since I watched it live. Shame on me! I'll get right to it.*


ATF said:


> WrestleMania 19 and No Mercy too
> 
> But yeah, the rest sucks. Royal Rumble = good opener, good Main Event, ABOMINATION of a midcard. No Way Out = meh. Backlash = MEH. Judgment Day = MEEEH. Insurrextion = could've been worse I guess. Bad Blood = letdown. SummerSlam = Smackdown saved it. Unforgiven = sucked outside of maybe two matches. Survivor Series = one match show. Armageddon = total MEHfest.
> 
> So there you go.


*Judgment Day holds a special place in my heart because it was the first WWE show that I ever went to live. :$*



ATF said:


> So I decided to, in preparation for the upcoming Royal Rumble show, I've decided to rewatch three old folks that stick out, one for right reasons, one for wrong reasons, and one for... both:
> 
> Rumble 2002:
> Dudleys/Tazz & Spike: ***
> ...


*I'm glad that you did this because I was thinking about re-watching some older Rumbles as well. Glad to see some recommendations.*



SMITTY said:


> Going to a WWE house show tonight, missing the Eagles/Saints game but Saints will destroy so not too upset
> 
> What should I expect from a house show for the WWE?


*I wouldn't be too sure about the Saints handling this one easily. Time will tell, though...*



Cactus Jack said:


> I have a little theory. There is a massive difference between a "sports entertainer" (for lack of a better word) and a professional wrestler. The Usos, Kofi Kingston, the Miz, Santino, etc are sports entertainers. They are not out there trying out on legitimate looking athletic contests. They are just trying to "entertain" us. Guys like Danielson, Punk, Lesnar, Taker, Regal, Cesaro, Sheamus, etc. are professional wrestlers. They go to great lengths to make sure what they do looks legitimate. The fact that they entertain us is just a side effect of them working so hard to make us believe it's real.
> 
> When the WWE tries to entertain me and a lot of fans I know, they generally fail. When they just say fuck the bullshit and give us matches were the guys act like winning is a matter of life or death, that's when they succeed. That's what happened with Regal/Cesaro on NXT. I just wish they would stop focusing so hard on being entertaining, that usually results in the abortions like the Strahan segment, which is probably the single worst thing I've seen on WWE TV in ages.


*I couldn't have said it better myself.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Nope, one of the only big :hbk2 matches Ive never seen. I feel we have this "Youve never seen this ?" convo all the time, this is what happens when your parents hate wrestling and never brought you and your brother PPVs



Haha man I was in the same boat as a kid. Luckily my best friend lived next door and his dad was the biggest Dusty Rhodes fan I've ever seen, he got every WWF/E and WCW PPV. So I got to spend every Monday night in elementary and middle school seeing what Stone Cold would do next. When we wrestled the kids on the street over, we would be Diesel and Shawn Michaels and they would be the Road Warriors :lmao

I'm gonna watch Jericho vs Taker from Smackdown, it's a shame these two never got a real program together.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched Batista vs Edge from Night of Champions 2008 last night since the Animal is about to return in two weeks. First ten minutes were dull as fuck but things get better towards the end when the pace picks up. Then just as it's about to get better, lolinterference occurs. Was worth it just to laugh at the hilarity of seeing Batista toss Vickie onto Edge's Jobber Clan. Who the fuck is that tall guy anyways? I saw it in 240p so for a second I thought Tomko had returned for a one night special or something.



ATF said:


> Angle/Benoit: **3/4 (sorry but it's just too fun and wrecky for me to hideously hate it like I once did)


One step in the right direction. (Y)


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rey Mysterio VS Dean Malenko Cruiserweight Championship Match(Monday Nitro 07/08/96)

Good match. Re-watched today.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea HBK/Vince was awesome, so much fun. The time just flew on by and that's always a plus for me and wrestling. Dont know why I always steered clear of this match, I guess Vince for some reason but it was great. Awesome character work by both men. Loved that once Shawn went nuts, JR said things along the lines of " I didnt think I would ever see this Shawn again". Comparing him too the COKEZ HBK of old. :lmao love how JR makes things sound so seriously.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Rey Mysterio VS Dean Malenko Cruiserweight Championship Match(Monday Nitro 07/08/96)
> 
> Good match. Re-watched today.


If you haven't seen their BATB match get on that now, nitro match is fun too

started JD 04, ready for DAT ME :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> One step in the right direction. (Y)


Yeah but don't expect me to suck its balls like you do :side:

The thing is, when I was rewatching RR 2003, I remembered this was on the watchlist, and I had to eat it up. And here's the issue - I came directly after two kings of DUD's in Torrie/Dawn and HHH/Steiner. Which is probably why it sticked out so much more than it usually would. And the match itself, despite the obvious lack of coherence and sometimes selling (the Benoit Ankle Lock into Angle Ankle Lock sequence still annoys the fuck outta me), is still just :mark: to watch with the crowd going absolutely balls out on the absolutely insane MOVEZ~ sequences they busted. And when I was done with it, I reminded myself that, if I like Punk/Jericho PB, this is even better than that so why should I hate it too? And there's the story of my change of opinion. 

Though I still don't think it's anywhere near "DAH GOAT" or "BSTE MATCHE EVAH" like many others do, and I never will, but now, it's just a match that I can still down and brainlessly enjoy. Cue the word, "*brainlessly*".


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

From In Your House 98

Edge vs Owen Hart...Pretty good PPV debut by Edge, there was a time where there was a great reversal after reversal sequence in that match which I really liked, don't like the distraction finish of the match, but overall the match was above average, ***1/4

Vader vs Bradshaw FAC, tbh I was a bit disappointed from these 2 brawlers, kinda short match as well, **1/4 

Rock vs Foley vs Shamrock, this was a very good match even though the finish was kinda(very?) stupid of Foley, I should watch some other 3-way cage matches ( I remember also liking Morrison/Miz/Cena, are there any others? )i'll give it ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF still hiding his love for angle/benoit rr 03 :banderas be free and just enjoy it bud


To add to hbk/vince

1) Probably my favorite SPOT ever that elbow drop, cant imagine the fear Vince had just when Shawn jumped

2) :lmao 06-07 was definitely the time period Vince completely indulged in the muscle men fetish he has and was completely unashamed, I bet if is one had 0 wrestling about and has a great look he could have been world champ during that time alone,,..... oh wait :KHAIL


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:kobe


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think I need to watch this Foley/Shamrock/Rock match, keeps getting good reviews 

Etrbaby what did you think of the Austin/Kane/Taker match from that show? I personally thought it was dreadful


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Yeah but don't expect me to suck its balls like you do :side:
> 
> The thing is, when I was rewatching RR 2003, I remembered this was on the watchlist, and I had to eat it up. And here's the issue - I came directly after two kings of DUD's in Torrie/Dawn and HHH/Steiner. Which is probably why it sticked out so much more than it usually would. And the match itself, despite the obvious lack of coherence and sometimes selling (the Benoit Ankle Lock into Angle Ankle Lock sequence still annoys the fuck outta me), is still just :mark: to watch with the crowd going absolutely balls out on the absolutely insane MOVEZ~ sequences they busted. And when I was done with it, I reminded myself that, if I like Punk/Jericho PB, this is even better than that so why should I hate it too? And there's the story of my change of opinion.
> 
> Though I still don't think it's anywhere near "DAH GOAT" or "BSTE MATCHE EVAH" like many others do, and I never will, but now, it's just a match that I can still down and brainlessly enjoy. Cue the word, "*brainlessly*".


It's okay, you will realize that you were trying too hard and once you calm down, you'll realize that it's a great match.  

Even I don't consider it a 5 star match or the best ever anymore after the last watch, but I still hold it around the 4 and a half mark and think that nitpicking about this or that moment is just trying your hardest to _not_ enjoy it. It's okay, I admit I've done that with some Punk matches in the past just for the hell of it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> ATF still hiding his love for angle/benoit rr 03 :banderas be free and just enjoy it bud
> 
> 
> To add to hbk/vince
> ...



Exactly man. I put the RR match at number 98 on my top 100 WWE matches list. No shame. Dig what you dig.

Vince had a funny take on the elbow drop on Shawn's documentary (I think it was Shawn's?) Anway, he said he was just sitting there whistling to himself wondering when the hell Shawn was ever gonna drop the elbow. He also said Shawn totally protected him on it and he never actually felt anything. I'm betting if there was no trash can it would have hurt like shit. Can you just imagine laying there on a table in the dark with a trash can on your head waiting for a 220+ lb man to drop 15 feet from the sky on you? It's just funny to think about.

As retarded as Vince's decisions can be at time, if anyone ever doubts that that man loves wrestling more than any human being ever, I don't know what to tell you. 60+ years old! worth a billion dollars! and he lets a guy 20 years younger than him beat the ever loving shit out of him while millions around the world watch. Vince is a nut. Terry Funk said whenever he is asked who the most "hardcore" wrestler he's ever seen is, he always replies it's Vince McMahon, because he doesn't do any of the crazy shit he does for money. He let's Stone Cold and Hogan and HBK and whoever else beat the crap out of him because he loves it.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I think I need to watch this Foley/Shamrock/Rock match, keeps getting good reviews
> 
> Etrbaby what did you think of the Austin/Kane/Taker match from that show? I personally thought it was dreadful


it seemed a bit like a handicap match and tbh I skipped some it because it was really boring ( and that's why I didn't rate it)


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Watching Satan's Prison right now. Elimination Chamber Anthology, watching NYR 2005 right now. Surprised little editing was done to protect Benoit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Vince had a funny take on the elbow drop on Shawn's documentary (I think it was Shawn's?) Anway, he said he was just sitting there whistling to himself wondering when the hell Shawn was ever gonna drop the elbow. He also said Shawn totally protected him on it and he never actually felt anything. I'm betting if there was no trash can it would have hurt like shit. Can you just imagine laying there on a table in the dark with a trash can on your head waiting for a 220+ lb man to drop 15 feet from the sky on you? It's just funny to think about.
> 
> As retarded as Vince's decisions can be at time, if anyone ever doubts that that man loves wrestling more than any human being ever, I don't know what to tell you. 60+ years old! worth a billion dollars! and he lets a guy 20 years younger than him beat the ever loving shit out of him while millions around the world watch. Vince is a nut. Terry Funk said whenever he is asked who the most "hardcore" wrestler he's ever seen is, he always replies it's Vince McMahon, because he doesn't do any of the crazy shit he does for money. He let's Stone Cold and Hogan and HBK and whoever else beat the crap out of him because he loves it.


Yea crazy thing is I think Shawn took the most out of that whole ordeal. Shock he just got right back up after it, that why he is the fav :mark: and :lol if someone told me 11 years ago fucking Nicky from the Spirit Squad would be my favorite, I'd laugh at them


That Heartbreak and triumph Doc :banderas 3rd fav behind Shawn/Bret and Punk's


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rhodes Brothers vs The Wyatts from last night was great, ***1/2. 2014 off with a great start already


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Halfway through JD 04 and its a 0 on the CAL scale so far :lol. If it wasn't for the decent opener it would be -3 :lmao


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

xdoomsayerx said:


> 2013 has been pretty terrible for ppvs. I was at payback, it wasn't bad, but nothing great either. Ziggler vs Del Rio was awesome and Punk vs Jericho was pretty solid IMO (I know it gets hate)
> 
> Other then that I HATED PAYBACK. Didn't care for the tag match at all, Kane vs Ambrose was awful and Cena vs Ryback I gave 2 shits about. Meaningless filler fued for Cena. Summerslam was easily show of the year for me.


Payback was a fun show attending live as most shows at the Allstate are. Punk/Jericho was MUCH better to experience the excitement of Punk's hometown return wearing the Blackhawks colors proudly. Looking back from a televised perspective, I see the awkward pacing and transitions they had. I thought their match on Raw earlier last year was much better work overall, and Payback has nothing on the 2012 matches. 

Cena/Ryback was below average and most of us expected it in such an overbooked gimmick main event. I liked the Shield tag. I would agree on it being their standard stuff you would have found them doing on TV frequently to that point but still decent. Sure, we could have been a bit hotter for Bryan but I think the match happened right after Punk/Jericho and the crowd was spent. I would have preferred an Orton/Bryan Street Fight here.

Finally, the brilliantly executed and the clear-cut standout performances of the night (kudos also go to AJ & Kaitlin giving a strong character driven, quality divas match tto), but Ziggler and Del Rio was something special to behold just how it all unfolding so subtle at first to the overt by the end. Ziggler's bumping and especially his selling made for in my opinion the best individual performance of 2013 thus far. That was classic babyface in peril material. 

Del Rio's turn you could see started out slowly building with his questioning the audience's jeers of his attack to the overt with his vicious kicks to Ziggler's once concussed skull. Brilliantly booked and performed match here. This is the type of storytelling I look for and revel as a wrestling fan. It is so fitting that before the match started we saw how Ziggler took advantage of an injured Del Rio to capture the World Title, and Del Rio in return did the same taking advantage of a weakness - PAYBACK. I ate it up and love it. Still holds up too.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

etrbaby said:


> From In Your House 98
> 
> Edge vs Owen Hart...Pretty good PPV debut by Edge, there was a time where there was a great reversal after reversal sequence in that match which I really liked, don't like the distraction finish of the match, but overall the match was above average, ***1/4
> 
> ...


Tried to tell you in a rep but it got cut off. Agree mostly, and as for triple threat cage there's Bryan/Show/Henry which isn't bad if predictable.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Caught the six man tag match from Smackdown this week. That ending sequence was :mark:. Enjoyable match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
I agree. Shield's tag matches on TV every week are still some of the best if not the best match segments every week on Raw and Smackdown and have been since their debut at TLC 2012. We are now seeing hints at some disintegration and possibly the start of a breakup. I will miss the tag team main events which most are entertaining at the least no matter how many times we have seen it. I can say i am looking forward to seeing more singles action from Rollins who is a thrill to watch perform, Ambrose's character getting involved in a heated angle with someone, and how the potential in Reigns will breakout to see how far he can take his raw intensity, commanding presence and natural charisma.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Look what i just bought for £2.99 and it comes on tuesday http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WWE-Under...t=UK_CDsDVDs_DVDs_DVDs_GL&hash=item4ab6381910

:banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well done? I got that out of Poundland a while back.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Judgment day 2004 review 

Eddie vs JBL :mark: 

Match #1: Rey Mysterio and RVD vs The Dudleyz*

I think this could be a pretty fun opener, I'm a fan of both teams but their styles dont really seem like they would mesh, High flying vs Hardcore? still pretty excited for it because it'll most likely be the only solid undercard match on this shit stain of a PPV. Why is Buba wearing shorts? The man has some PALE ass legs, go back to the pants my man, makes you look like a large toddler. RVD just dominates the beginning of this, which is pretty fun, especially since his opponents are so much larger. Pretty decent match so far and Rey hasn't even tagged in yet, impressive. Rey finally gets the hot tag to a huge pop and starts controlling the match. The dudleyz then start controlling the match which makes this part a little dull. Bubba starts taunting Rey which is pretty funny :lol. Luckily this match starts to heat up a little more after the dull portion, RVD kicks Devon STIFFLY in the head, look like it hurt a shit ton. The ending was pretty :mark: with the double 619 to frog splash combo. Really fun opener I must say, pretty underrated I think, if it wasn't for the boring portion this would have been GREAT. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3* 

*Match #2: Dawn Marie vs Torrie Wilson*

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: Mordeci vs Scotty 2 Hotty 
*
Am I really gonna NO 2 matches in a row? YEP. NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1*

*Match #4: Charlie Haas and Rico vs Hardcore Holly and Billy Gunn*

Legit the only reason I'm watching this is because theirs an intergender match later in the show and I can't NO four fucking matches in the show, three is pushing it. I hate 3 out of the 4 guys in this, well, at least Holly and Gunn because I don't know much about Rico, looks dreadful though. Gunn and Haas look confused as fuck for a little bit, don't know who starts the match it seems, IDIOTS! Rico is not too bad at all in the ring, just has about the gayest( literally) gimmick of all time, but his kicks looked stiff and hes okay I guess. This was nothing special at all, just a filler tag match that happened to be for the titles, but nothing HORRIBLE, just not good whatsoever. *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #5: Chavo Gurrero vs Jaqueline*

God I hate intergender matches. NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #6: John Cena vs Rene Dupree *

The sad thing is that I’m actually looking forward to this after the last 4 matches, three of which I didn’t even have the balls to watch :lol. Expecting this to be at least decent, because I know Cena is pretty good. OMG, Cena is from Boston and he's wearing a FUCKING LAKERS JERSEY. FUCK HIM. As a Celtics fan, I'm offcialy disgusted, not even wearing a :kobe jersey, its James Worthy. COME ON DUPREE! I know you lose but IDGAF, extremely pissed ATM. Decent match so far, but definetly feels like there just going through the motions, and no one thinks that Dupree is gonna take the title off of the mad hot Cena this early. But nonetheless this is still a pretty enjoyable match especially considering Dupree wasn't THAT good to be begin with. Last few minues were the best with some good near falls and a climatic FU. Much better than expected. **1/2

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #7: The Undertaker vs Booker T 
*
Welp, not looking forward to this at all, because apparently it gets over 10 minutes and is bad, poor taker having to work with a shitstain like Booker. Hopefully taker will be able to carry Booker to at least a watchable match, which I'm afrais is likely a long shot. The no selling by taker in the beginning of the match is so :lmao, no one cares about you Booker. This is basically just boring brawling and not much storytelling, but taker pulling old school was pretty :mark: as usual Crowd is pretty into this match, I have no idea why because this isn't that special. While not special this is still not nearly as bad as I feared, which is a good thing. But in the end the deadman gets the victory, which is a very good thing because if Booker T lost to a GOAT like taker I woudn't know what to do with myself. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5

Match #8: JBL vs Eddie Gurrero 
*
So fucking ready for this match after sitting through so much garbage, especially considering this is one of the best matches of all time. The brawl starts early with Eddie Slamming JBL into the steel steps. Eddie is on a rampage by throwing JBL on the announce table and choking him with a chord, so awesome. Did I mention the HEAT this man had? legit BOOED out of the building, prolly because they were in LA but also because of how great of a heel he was. The great thing about this match is that its entertaining throughout, not a ton of dull portions throughout the match and that is of course a rarity. I think we all still cringe like a madman when that chair sINAot is hit, really disgusting, you could of course hear that chair around the arena apparently, whole crowd goes OH SHIT! This is when the match turned from good to great. The match just gets so bloody and it turns from a wrestling match to an all out war, easily the bloodiest match in WWE history. The comeback by Eddie was so :mark: as well, him dancing while completely bloodied was just so much :mark:. Every counter Eddie makes is just flawlessly done, WHILE probably having a fucking concussion. Only thing I dont like is the ending, Eddie should have won but its whatever, still one of the best matches ever. ****3/4

*CAL SCALE: 8 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 9.5 

CURRENT 2004 PPV MOTY: Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit 

CURRENT 2004 PPV RANKINGS

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: Wrestlemania XX ( 20)
4: Judgment day( 9.5) 
5: Royal Rumble (8)
*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive gotta watch that _Eddie/JBL_ match again. It's been too long


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Interesting from what it seems like youve seen (judging by your PPV ranking) you still have hhh/hbk/benoit as MOTY


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Considering I have it at the full 5, its gonna stay that way


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

From the recent Smackdown:

Rhodes/Wyatt Family - ***1/2
Punk and Usos/The Shield - ***1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually have eddie/jbl MOTY w/ orton/foley 2nd and then the three way

IDK its just something about that match that I cant put my finger on but it keeps it from a ****3/4-5 for me, not a benoit/eddie mark either so didnt mark at the ending


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Two *** 1/2 matches on SD? I should probably watch my torrent then. I skimmed through it but I didn't see anything too interesting (other than Punk obviously)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ahhh wtf a new thread. 

Just saw Edge/Benoit steel cage, not a fan of the finish tbh. Still a good match though.

And I also think I'm gonna jump on that Eddie/JBL re-watch bandwagon. It's been about 3 years since I've seen it.

Also, thoughts on Hardy/Taker Ladder (or was it a TLC?). I love that match so freaking much. Jeff plays he underdog character so well and Taker is just a dick. The post-match promo is the cherry on top.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Is Flair/Eddie from Hog Wild any good? Never seen it, smh... Also, I might watch Eddie/Edge No DQ for the first time since airing. Woooo!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Brock getting a title match then?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, never got he love for Edge/Eddie no DQ.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Is Flair/Eddie from Hog Wild any good? Never seen it, smh... Also, I might watch Eddie/Edge No DQ for the first time since airing. Woooo!


Watched that for the first time since it aired a couple months ago. Definitely still held up for me.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Why is that Austin/Angle SS '01 match that you guys were raving about, not on any of Austin's DVDs? 

I have his "The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin" DVD, and was hoping it was on there, but it's not. It's not on any of his DVDs!

What makes it even weirder is that it's not on any WWE compilation DVD either, that I know of. 

Is it?


Thoughts on Del Rio vs. Sheamus at Summerslam 2012 & Del Rio vs. Cena Last Man Standing Match?

I enjoyed both, though the ending of Del Rio/Sheamus was kind of annoying.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't specifically remember much of Del Rio/Sheamus from SS but I do remember not particularly liking any of their match ups that much. Del Rio/Cena LMS had some pretty innovative stuff in it. Didn't really have a problem with the way it ended or anything. Fun match, imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Why is that Austin/Angle SS '01 match that you guys were raving about, not on any of Austin's DVDs?


DL it here - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...e-austin-vs-kurt-angle-summerslam-2001-a.html


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Why is that Austin/Angle SS '01 match that you guys were raving about, not on any of Austin's DVDs?
> 
> I have his "The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin" DVD, and was hoping it was on there, but it's not. It's not on any of his DVDs!
> 
> ...


Have no clue why either, its a ***** match IMO so it should be recognized, its all over YT and dailymotion so its easy to see, I recommend it

ehh ADR/Sheamus best match is MITB dont remember ss being any good. Iirc most of the cena/del are solid. Is that the raw match or vengeance ? Doesn't matter I there all solid w/ NOC being the best


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nice review, Smitty. I too watched a Judgment Day PPV recently that might have out-sucked the one you watched: IYH: JD 98.

Al Snow vs. Marc Mero: *DUD*
LOD vs. DOA: *DUD*
Christian vs. TAKA Michinoku: *****
Goldust vs. Val Venis: *****
X-Pac vs. D'Lo Brown: *****
Headbangers vs. New Age Outlaws: *DUD*
Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind: *****
Mark Henry vs. The Rock: ****
Kane vs. Undertaker: *DUD*

So yeah, every match besides Rock/Henry was either a DUD or three stars. And if I wasn't such a big Henry mark, that could have been a DUD too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nice review, Smitty. I too watched a Judgment Day PPV recently that might have out-sucked the one you watched: IYH: JD 98.
> 
> Al Snow vs. Marc Mero: *DUD*
> LOD vs. DOA: *DUD*
> ...


I watched Shamrock/Mankind recently and thought it was decent. Was expecting much more though.

D-Lo/X-Pac just doesn't sound like my cup of tea.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

D'Lo is alright, but when X-Pac wants to do well, he's so damn good. The guy is great at building suspense in a match without spamming weak Kofi Kingston nearfalls. Goldust/Val was one of the biggest carryjobs I've ever seen. Val Venis did not do a single damn thing besides hold Goldy's arm. And The Undertaker just sucked in the ring.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I actually don't mind X-Pac, he's had some stuff I really enjoyed.

I'm honestly not too high on Taker's ring work in '98 and '99. Other than some stuff with Foley and the Mania match vs Kane I don't remember liking much. '97 Taker was pretty awesome though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Why is that Austin/Angle SS '01 match that you guys were raving about, not on any of Austin's DVDs?
> 
> I have his "The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin" DVD, and was hoping it was on there, but it's not. It's not on any of his DVDs!
> 
> ...


Spoilers ahead so read at your own risk:



Spoiler: reason



The reason is probably WWE are idiots who rarely promote matches that end in DQ no matter how good they are. Look at the lists in their site, look at what they have in the DVDs, I don't know how many feature matches that end by DQ.



You can find it on youtube if you search, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> Is Flair/Eddie from Hog Wild any good? Never seen it, smh...


It's good but the Nitro match from 5/20/96 is better.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> I don't specifically remember much of Del Rio/Sheamus from SS but I do remember not particularly liking any of their match ups that much. Del Rio/Cena LMS had some pretty innovative stuff in it. Didn't really have a problem with the way it ended or anything. Fun match, imo.


To me, Sheamus vs. Del Rio in 2012 was the equivalent of Cena vs. Orton in 2009. Awful main event program that kept dragging on for months and months, with promos and matches that the fans couldn't give a sh*t about, and with WWE trying so hard to brainwash people into thinking it's epic, etc. Talk about shoving down people's throats. Guess you can say the only difference was the former wasn't always gimmick match after match. Just glad they've been kept far away from each other since then and most likely won't ever bounce back to the main event scene. Thank god the boredom is over!

Said it before and I'll say it again. Sheamus and Barrett should have feuded for the World Championship at some point. Damn you, Big Show! If booked right, it could have had the makings of a classic Irish vs. British style rivalry with Sheamus carrying the matches and Barrett carrying the promos. They've wrestled each other countless times on Raw's, Main Event's and SmackDown's but I never minded it because of the immense matches that came out of it, as well as the strong chemistry that was developed. Would have been all for a PPV match with them, I even remember WWE teasing a WrestleMania match with them last year. Sheamus is like the only guy who meshes well with Barrett in the ring when you look at it. Also pretty bummed they never utilized the WWE '12 storyline with United Kingdom in real life, that had Evolution 2.0 written all over.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow. Missed a ton so far in the new thread. I'll try to address a couple things:

Punk being told he wasn't even getting to lose the title at Unforgiven 2008 bites the big one. Guy was pissed for too long. Surely there was someone else in that match that they could have dropped from that match instead. Then they randomly used it in the Punk/Orton program in 2011. 

I still enjoy the Usos, always have. Don't like Kofi so much, but that's mainly because nothings changed about him since 2008. I feel the same way about Sin Cara, in that he just jumps around and does nothing else. Usos may end up being the same as Kofi, but I'll enjoy them for now. 

I wouldn't mind a Henry/Lesnar match at the Rumble, as Brock needs to win and look dominant, because he's Brock.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I liked this PPV. Enjoyed the Bryan-Sheamus match and the Punk-Jericho match was good, though, as all other Punk-Jericho matches, below what I've expected from these two. Cena VS Brock was fine, though Cena winning was a terrible booking decision, IMO, with this being Brock's first match since his return, and all.

Nut most of all, loved the independent crowd. So loud and involved throughout the entire PPV. Were cheering Ziggler during the Ziggler Brodus match, were cheering Bryan massively during the Bryan Sheamus match, Cody during the Cody Big Show match. Like, after Show attacked Cody after their match, and Cody got back up, he actually got a decent pop, as when he lifted the title again, after standing up. Also remarkable how loudly they were booing Show for attacking Cody post match, since this was just a midcard feud. Good on the crowd for actually caring about a midcard feud. Need more of these crowds. 

Also, the Bryan Sheamus match. The pop for heel Bryan. Fuck. What a crowd. Not "trying to get themselves over" either, as some of you say, they were legitimately that passionate about Bryan winning the match. Love Bryan down there, even though it's Punk's domain.

Chicago, NYC, Toronto, and Philly are just fucking fantastic, as of late.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just hit up that crazy Walmart sale got Greatest Rivalries Hart vs Shawn, Best of Clash of Champions, Best of SNME, Best of Raw Season 1 and 2, You think you know me? Edge doc, and Best of PPV 09-10 for 30 bucks and tax. I'm pumped.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This "trying to get over" crowd complaint is so dumb. The only bad crowd is a dead crowd. Period.

Chiefs/Colts: *****3/4*. What a comeback.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> This "trying to get over" crowd complaint is so dumb. The only bad crowd is a dead crowd. Period.
> 
> Chiefs/Colts: *****3/4*. What a comeback.


****1/4 for me. Thought it was a tad overbooked. :side:

Andrew Luck had a few botches in the first half and if there's anything I've learned from this forum, botches mean everything.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can only go :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer 1/2 on Colts/Chiefs. I like defense, running game, etc. Plus, I was rooting for KC. Hell of a game though. Luck is incredible good lord. Andy Reid is a good coach but his game management sucks at times. 

eyton and :brady were probably getting very warm and fuzzy watching this game 




etrbaby said:


> From In Your House 98
> 
> Rock vs Foley vs Shamrock, this was a very good match even though the finish was kinda(very?) stupid of Foley, I should watch some other 3-way cage matches ( I remember also liking Morrison/Miz/Cena, are there any others? )i'll give it ***3/4


LOVE this match! 



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Just hit up that crazy Walmart sale got Greatest Rivalries Hart vs Shawn, Best of Clash of Champions, Best of SNME, Best of Raw Season 1 and 2, You think you know me? Edge doc, and Best of PPV 09-10 for 30 bucks and tax. I'm pumped.


Wow good buy!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

lol I thought it was funny when you guys started rating the threads.. now football games?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Another PPV with a fucking brilliant crowd. One of my favorites in the past few years.

The pop for heel Cody. :banderas Also, the continuous Cody chants throughout the match. During the 5 on 5 Elimination match, seems to me that Cody was the most over guy in the match, with the NYC crowd. He was certainly more over than the other heels, by the reactions, and the only face that could touch him in that department was Orton, and during the end, it seemed somewhat clear that the smarks that composed most of the crowd preferred heel Cody to Orton, then. 

Punk Del Rio match with great crowd reactions, as well. The pop for his entrance and his win are both remarkable. Especially for his win. 

Don't really care for the Rock stuff, and didn't really give too many fucks about the Main Event. Ziggler VS Morrison was fine, Henry VS Show wasn't anything special, to me. The Divas match seemed to be the only match the fans were pretty silent for, other than the Glam Slam spot at the end.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Other than the main event (for the nostalgia factor only), Survivor Series 2011 can fuck off. Actually, Mizark vs Big Show was surprisingly fun, with a hot crowd (even when chanting "Boring") and two big men giving it more than they should.

Gonna watch the 2005 elimination chamber now, this match should rule as much as ever.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Matter of opinion. Great Traditional 5 on 5 Elimination Tag match, IMO, as well as a decent Punk-ADR match. The crowd really made it that much more to me. MSG :mark: :mark::mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the 5 vs.5 was great, also henry/show.ziggler/jomo was decent for ziggler performance but that it, the rest of the show sucked

It was also held in the world's greatest arena so that helps


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Matter of opinion. Great Traditional 5 on 5 Elimination Tag match, IMO, as well as a decent Punk-ADR match. The crowd really made it that much more to me. MSG :mark: :mark::mark:


I can understand since you're a Rhodes mark. But Orton putting over Wade Borrett is a crime that should never, ever happen again! rton2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

A lot of people dislike the Elimination Chamber format but I love it. Excited to see what they do for this years one. I'm trying (key word) to go to that PPV. :mark: 



SaviorBeeRad™;28256833 said:


> lol I thought it was funny when you guys started rating the threads.. now football games?


Sometimes when I make dinner I will say that was :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer

I'm an unapologetic wrestling nerd. What can I say. bama3


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

How's TLC 2009? The card looks pretty jacked. DX/Jerishow (TAG MATCH MAIN EVENT. WWE TAG TEAMS 2009 >>> :mark: ), Batista/Taker (chairs goddamit), Christian/Shlelton, Cena/Sheamus, and a decent undercard. Worth a watch?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Going back to watch Jericho VS Mysterio at The Bash 2009, later today. Noteworthy performance from both. Really worked well together, I liked it more than their Extreme Rules match.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Mysterio/Jericho Bash is so awesome, can't wait to rewatch on that Best of 09-10 PPV DVD


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

^^^^
That is a great set. Did you get the DVD or blu ray?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That '09-'10 PPV set is awesome. I didn't love the PPVs they did as a whole that year but they got a good deal of the best matches on there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punked Up said:


> How's TLC 2009? The card looks pretty jacked. DX/Jerishow (TAG MATCH MAIN EVENT. WWE TAG TEAMS 2009 >>> :mark: ), Batista/Taker (chairs goddamit), Christian/Shlelton, Cena/Sheamus, and a decent undercard. Worth a watch?


Horrible show lol. HORRIBLE. Christian/Shelton is BAD. Sheamus/Cena is DULL. Batista/Taker is ATROCIOUS. DX/JeriShow is mediocre as fuck. Orton/Kofi is average. Drew/Morrison is average. Divas match is divas match.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Horrible show lol. HORRIBLE. Christian/Shelton is BAD. Sheamus/Cena is DULL. Batista/Taker is ATROCIOUS. DX/JeriShow is mediocre as fuck. Orton/Kofi is average. Drew/Morrison is average. Divas match is divas match.


I'm watching some now. Christian/Shelton was a spot fest in a bad way. They do EVERYTHING just to set up the next spot and sometimes just freaking ignore the title. Also, surprisingly slow as hell at points, especially with that stupid blood check. Over and over they climb the ladder too fast and just have to act like they can't unhinge it. **3/4 for some cool spots. Debating whether to go on or not based on your review :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punked Up said:


> How's TLC 2009? The card looks pretty jacked. DX/Jerishow (TAG MATCH MAIN EVENT. WWE TAG TEAMS 2009 >>> :mark: ), Batista/Taker (chairs goddamit), Christian/Shlelton, Cena/Sheamus, and a decent undercard. Worth a watch?


Horrendous pardon Cena vs Sheamus & McIntyre vs Morrison.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Prime Evil said:


> Horrendous pardon Cena vs Sheamus & McIntyre vs Morrison.


Neither of those matches are worth going out of your way to see though. They didn't save the show or anything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why it's horrendous.

Revelation shocks us all.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Yep, stopped watching. Looked like a really cool card at first glance. Was a mistake to make Jerishow/DX a TLC, NONE of them can fly at all. Not even gonna bother with the rest, Christian/Shelton, Batista/Taker and Shelton/Christian are all bad.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> ^^^^
> That is a great set. Did you get the DVD or blu ray?


DVD, is the blu-ray that much better?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I guess another of my unpopular opinions: I liked Christian/Shelton at TLC 2009. Don't remember much of Batista/Taker other than the finish fpalm Can't win with a low blow in a chairs match :kenny


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk why people think folk have to "fly" or create spots when in a ladder or TLC match. It's like they're begging the matches to be awful. Understandable why some hate the gimmick.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah. Shawn and Bret didn't fly around. Don't think Razor and Shawn did. Rock and Hunter didn't (I know most people's opinions of that match however). I feel like Taker/Jeff was kind of a breath of fresh air after the big TLC matches (which I like).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> DVD, is the blu-ray that much better?


It does have Taker/Rey from Rumble 2010 and Jericho & Big Show/ :hbk3 :jpl at TLC 2009 which are both good. 

I only have the DVD but the blu ray is cheap. Like $7 on amazon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> idk why people think folk have to "fly" or create spots when in a ladder or TLC match. It's like they're begging the matches to be awful. *Understandable why some hate the gimmick.*


Besides a few matches, I loathe them all

everyone check this match out


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I popped in Royal Rumble 1997. Pretty excited for the :vader :taker match. I have not seen it in years. 

I really liked the JBL/Show barbed wire cage match. JBL was such a fantastic chicken shit heel.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't know if this means that Henry/Lesnar is off, but Henry was advertised for a house show I went to tonight, and he wasn't there, must be injured 

BTW- shield/Punk was :mark: all the way 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nvm


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Don't know if this means that Henry/Lesnar is off, but Henry was advertised for a house show I went to tonight, and he wasn't there, must be injured
> 
> BTW- shield/Punk was :mark: all the way
> 
> ...


Yeah still not sure if Henry was a work or not.. that F5 did look more brutal than it really had to.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Survivor Series 2011 doesn't need to fuck off. It was a great show that started the greatest title reign in company history.

I didn't like any of the Sheamus/Cena interactions. Their cage match was worse. Very boring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Yeah. Shawn and Bret didn't fly around. Don't think Razor and Shawn did. Rock and Hunter didn't (I know most people's opinions of that match however). I feel like Taker/Jeff was kind of a breath of fresh air after the big TLC matches (which I like).


Indeed. And the matches that were very balls to the wall were multi-man & had enough to offer when the chaos went down. "x" takes a bump & "y" is there to pick up the pieces and keep it flowing. That's what those TLC matches were bred off of. Hectic madness done right. Not contrived for the sake of the match calling for "spots".

Taker vs Hardy is some kind of magic. Jericho vs Benoit is a ladder match done damn near perfect too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Been in a wrestling mood this evening soo here a sum up of my viewing (so far):

jbl/show barbwire cage- awesome, stiff and brutal loved it

show/cena mania 20- loved it, Big Show was awesome in this and 2 AA to big show is pretty impressive, odd hear all cheers for Cena and a different theme

Currently watching hhh/benoit/hbk 2 and its great so far


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Survivor Series 2011 doesn't need to fuck off. It was a great show that started the greatest title reign in company history.


I didn't know Wrestlemania XX changed its name. unk2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL vs Show. Hell yes. Damn I love slugfests.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I liked Survivor Series 2011 as well. 



Choke2Death said:


> I didn't know Wrestlemania XX changed its name. unk2


And I didn't know Wrestlemania 4 changed it's name. :SavageSmiley


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Going back to watch Jericho VS Mysterio at The Bash 2009, later today. Noteworthy performance from both. Really worked well together, I liked it more than their Extreme Rules match.


This match was pretty close to perfection and would be my top match of the year if a certain match in Houston never happened. But I could watch this match any day of the week. Beautifully paced, Mysterio busted out some moves he hadn't done in years, Jericho brought his heel A game, and everything awesome about their chemistry flourish in this climatic chapter in the series with good storytelling to boot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 1991, WrestleMania 13, Over the Edge 1999, Judgment Day 2002, WrestleMania 23, WrestleMania 24, & Hell in a Cell 2009 are the only acceptable answers here guys.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Half of those title reigns were disasters. Undertaker never needed a title to be GOAT. He was always above any measly piece of metal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

All you jobbers got it wrong the real answer is after Wrestlemania 12 main event


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Half of those title reigns were disasters. Undertaker never needed a title to be GOAT. He was always above any measly piece of metal.


As you all probably know Michael Hayes says in the unk2 documentary some guys are bigger than the title. This is a perfect example. When :taker finally hangs up his boots I don't think people will remember him for his title reigns. Even though he has some decent ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who cares about the reigns. It's just a better sight to see him be the greatest w/the kayfabe glory, opposed to not w/it.

Mick Foley's weren't noteworthy, but I hold those in nearly the same regard too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Undertaker was the greatest in kayfabe the moment he debuted. He was always portrayed to be the ultimate boss. Dude could hold the Diva's title and he'd still be more credible than everyone else.

Now to rewatch Money in the Bank 2010. My goodness what a great show minus the main event. Rey/Swagger :mark:

:mark: Shaquille O'Neal and Mark Henry in the same room at the same time :mark:. And then Vince McMahon ordering Bossman to kick Michael Cole's and Jim Cornette's ass. And now Steven "The Man" Regal! What an episode of RAW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fabulous show. I was talking it up earlier today. Best MITB show out of the new PPV franchise. Certainly the most consistent.

Mysterio vs Swagger. Unreal match. SWAGGER.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm not one to be all disappointed about # of reigns and such. It's nice to see my favorites win it at least once but if someone is consistently doing interesting things outside of the title scene then it doesn't bother me one bit. Not everyone can be up there at once.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

:renee is the host on the WWE's 25 greatest rivalries :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You all made me think. When I think about "greats", I don't think about title reigns. Sure, being champion means alot and is important. Guys like Taker, Michaels, Foley, Punk, Trips, and Austin at this point I don't think about being great necessarily because of title reigns, but for how they entertained me with their promos, matches, etc.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Now to rewatch Money in the Bank 2010. My goodness what a great show minus the main event. Rey/Swagger :mark:


Don't think I've disliked a single MITB PPV since its debut. 2010 was good, 2011 was great(mostly for the ME, though fine w/o it, as well), 2012 was good(SD match was good, Bryan-Punk wasn't bad, Raw match was fine), and 2013 was very good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm never soured by everyone putting MITB 2011 a nice rub thanks to a match involving CM Punk & John Cena, but lets not forget one of the other two matches worth seeing on that show - Show vs Henry. It begins there. And it's excellent.

*the other is the World Championship Ladder match btw


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

LOVED Money in the Bank 2011. Such a fun night. The build-up for the Cena/Punk match was amazing and added a lot of hype for the event. I don't think I've been that excited for a PPV since. My favorite MITB PPV by far.

Smackdown MITB - ****1/2
Raw MITB - ***3/4
Orton/Christian - ***1/2
Punk/Cena - *****

Don't remember a whole lot about Show/Henry, but I thought it was good upon first viewing.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Batista/Kennedy have chemistry, two solid bouts in GAB 2006 and RR 2007.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Chiefs vs. Colts - *****
Eagles vs. Saints - *** 1/4
:troll

OT, gonna watch my SummerSlam 2000 DVD. Hope this event is as much fun as I remember (I ACTUALLY LIKE THE MAIN EVENT TOO ).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista vs Kennedy from GAB :ti

Rumble was shockingly good. Simple, but good. Seven years later I still can't fathom how.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh to that GAB match. It was a fun beatdown alright, but a sloppy one at that. Still a glorious bladejob by Kennedy 8*D

Talking about MITB 2011, huh? What a different thing! Anyways, the only thing that annoyed me on that show were the "CM Punk" chants when Big Show was being stretchered out. That's it. Everything else, even the Divas filler = (Y)

And yet still, Extreme Rules next year was better.

EDIT: Why can't I stop myself... here's a list of a guy's Top 15 RR World Title matches (w/his rating directly compared to mine):
15 - Taker/Mysterio 2010 (***1/2-***)
14 - Punk/Rock 2013 (***3/4-fucking DUD)
13 - Punk/Ziggler 2012 (***3/4-**1/2)
12 - Edge/Ziggler 2011 (****-***1/4)
11 - Bret/Razor 1993 (****-***1/2)
10 - HHH/HBK 2004 (****-**)
09 - HBK/Taker 1998 (****-agreed)
08 - Diesel/Bret 1995 (****1/4-agreed)
07 - Bret/Taker 1996 (****1/4-***1/2)
06 - Jericho/Rock 2002 (****1/2-****)
05 - Cena/Umaga 2007 (****1/2-agreed)
04 - Mankind/Rock 1999 (****1/2-****1/4)
03 - HHH/Foley 2000 (*****-agreed)
02 - Angle/Benoit 2003 (*****-**3/4)
01 - 1992 Rumble (*****-****3/4)

Quite the WTF'ish list imo but to each his own.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Vengeance 2006 :
Orton vs Angle **1/2, nothing special besides the many german suplexes, a lot of orton headlocks.

Umaga vs Eugene, meh 1/4*

Flair vs Foley ** , it was a very short match to be given anything more ( the LMS was very good and the I Quit was pretty decent though from what I remember).

Shelton vs Carlito vs Nitro, I am huge fan of the match and the spots done it, **** 

Edge vs RVD, **** , I still mark for Edge doing the sunsetflip powerbomb to the outside, and countering the Rolling Thunder into powerslam, one my favorite Edge's single matches.

Kane vs Kane, 1/2*

John Cena vs Sabu , **3/4 , it was decently entertaining..

skipped DX burying Spirit Squad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> 14 - Punk/Rock 2013 (***3/4-fucking DUD)


I HATE that match. Was really looking forward to it since Raw 1000. Punk of course also lost the belt, which made it worse lol and a shame he lost it in a crap match, even to The Rock. Awful and pretty much a DUD IMO.

Their EC match was a little better, but i still didn't like it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It started off OK enough with the instant brawling and Punk's devious attack on the ribs, and everything up until pretty much Heyman attacking Rock was fine, but from there on, it just went downhill. Rest hold galore, sloppy, no structure whatsoever, one of the worst finishes ever (actually the Orton/Bryan BG finish from the same fucking year somehow managed to be 2x worse)... maybe I'm being too nitpicky but that was Godawful. EC match was better since it played off of the DQ on Rock loses title stip fairly well, and had the ending the RR match should've had (2nd Rock Bottom).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock winning the title was GOAT. Something I never thought I'd see again. :mark: :mark: :mark: I'd need to watch the matches again since it's been practically year since I watched them last but yeah, they didn't exactly blow me away. I didn't think they were DUD's either though. Meh. They were worth it for Rocky winning the title one more time. Awesome moment for sure that would only be matched by BROCK winning the title one more time and only be bested by GAME winning it again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Brock working RR/EC and WM then considering he is supposed to be getting a title shot (or is that just storyline and he never actually gets it).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Who the fuck knows. One day a report comes out saying X, the next day it comes out saying Y. The Rumble is only 3 weeks away so we won't be long finding out. Heyman said in the wwe.com interview that Lesnar had plans to do something 'Old School' on Old School Raw. He could be referencing Taker or it could mean absolutely nothing lol. We'll know in a day. I hope he works all 3. Brock in the Rumble match and the chamber match would be too much :mark: to pass up. I'd love to see it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

EC is in his home town i believe, would be nice to see him do something there. Working Royal Rumble against Henry to me seems a tad.....random. I dunno, more than likely to keep him looking strong, esp if he is indeed going after the streak.

I just hope it doesn't sacrifice future Brock appearances this year, like at Summerslam.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Maybe they'll give him 2 opponents to steamroll until his Mania match. I'd definitely rather have him in the Rumble and the Chamber though. Plenty of ways to start a feud in there and for personal reasons, Lesnar fucking shit up is eternally entertaining to me. Besides, if Batista/Brock is on the cards for Summerslam then I can't see him passing up on that pay day. It's a huge first time ever match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, now they have Brock and Batista back at pretty much the same time, id be very disappointed if they don't work a match together.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock/Taker
Brock/Batista
Brock/Bryan
Brock/Seamus
Brock/Rock

All matches I'd look forward to seeing at some stage. The thing is, nobody knows how long Lesnar is here for. Is it Mania 31? Is it 30? Is it beyond? We don't know. If they use up all the big matches then my guess is he isn't sticking around very long. Brock is about money. He isn't going to work Bryan or Seamus if a bigger match isn't on the table at the end of it all imo. I wish he'd stick around and commit to more dates but I can't see it happening. At least he's back in some capacity. I can live with that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id say Brock/Rock is a near lock for WM31 IMO. Brock/Taker could still happen at Mania this year, Brock/Batista they should try and do at Summerslam. If Sheamus was back already, possibly as a face, i would like to have seen Brock/Sheamus at RR TBH.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Punk/Rock from RR for the first time since then. I must say, I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would for this second viewing. I mean, I liked it more than most people did even then. So I figured my opinion of it would stay the same or go down, but it actually went up. I'd probably give it ***1/2. 

It's actually a pretty good match. Punk was on his game and The Rock wasn't too bad. He was noticeably rusty but he did his part. I still wish Punk kicked out of that elbow and taken a Rock Bottom or something to finish it. I mean come on, it was a 434 day reign for Christ's sake, they could at least have had it so there was a bit more effort to put him down. The reign was a big deal, they could have made the finish live up to it more.

Gotta admit the pop for The Rock winning was pretty great. And regardless, The Shield interference and Vince coming out to restart it was fun to watch. I simply think the home stretch could have lasted another minute or two. That alone could have easily brought the match up to **** .


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Starbuck said:


> The thing is, nobody knows how long Lesnar is here for. Is it Mania 31? Is it 30? Is it beyond?


Isn't the contract until 31? I'm sure I read (on here, so it's not exactly a great source) that the first contract was until 29 and some stage before that they signed an extension until 31.

I'm still pissed off that he's had 5 matches since his return and 3 of them are with the same person


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Gonna watch Taker vs Austin from Fully Loaded 1999, one of their more favorable bouts from a rather underwhelming series. Believe I'd have it around **** to ****1/4 and 2nd MOTY behind Mick/Rock I Quit, then again it's not like 1999 was really an on year as far as in-ring wrasslin was concerned. Character work, explicit gimmicks, over the top shenanigans and entertainment value were all center stage.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, the World Heavyweight Title match at MITB '11 was also pretty good. In overall, I've enjoyed the SD Ladder matches more than the Raw Ladder matches. Usually have better spots, and the matches are more "fun", so to speak. 

In 2010, preferred the SD match to the Raw one. In 2011, significantly preferred the SD match to the Raw one. In 2012, I definitely preferred the SD match to the Raw one. In 2013, preferred the SD match to the Raw one, even besides the Cody booking, just because it had better spots, a better flow, and good storytelling at the end.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just watched HBK/Sid from Royal Rumble 97 and went back and watched their Survivors Series 96 (good PPV IMHO) match. Both pretty solid. :hbk of course did some carrying but good nonetheless. 

If we are talking QUALITY of matches is there a better WWE/WWF title reign than :HBK2 from April-November in 1996? I mean the no holds barred match with :nash was awesome, two very good matches with Davey (really enjoy their King of the Ring match in 96), good match with :vader, good match with Goldust, of course Mind Games with Foley meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer) , etc. 




Prime Evil said:


> Who cares about the reigns. It's just a better sight to see him be the greatest w/the kayfabe glory, opposed to not w/it.
> 
> Mick Foley's weren't noteworthy, but I hold those in nearly the same regard too.


Agreed totally. Saldy a lot of people think reigns are important. :cena :flair :jpl :austin3 :rock2 

Title reigns not :reigns. Well, he is important too. 

I really wanted :bryan to have a nice little 4-5 month reign (like he who shall not be named) with the WWE title but if he doesn't this WWE time quality wise has been great.



cesaro_ROCKS said:


> :renee is the host on the WWE's 25 greatest rivalries :mark:


She hosts the Best PPV matches of 2013 as well. So fucking adorable!



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> You all made me think. When I think about "greats", I don't think about title reigns. Sure, being champion means alot and is important. Guys like Taker, Michaels, Foley, Punk, Trips, and Austin at this point I don't think about being great necessarily because of title reigns, but for how they entertained me with their promos, matches, etc.


I agree with what you are saying but Austin sure had the belt a LOT in the AE. Not that I disagreed with it. Also, I bet the belt is important to unk4 as old school as he is. He even said as much in his doc. 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Batista/Kennedy RR 2007.


Just watched this for the first time this week. Good match. 

I really enjoyed Royal Rumble 2007. The ending with :hbk3 and :taker was awesome. I miss heel Edge. unk3 




Clint Eastwood said:


> EC is in his home town i believe


:brock went to the U of Minnesota. He is from and grew up in Webster, SD though. Which is like 4 hours from Minneapolis. I believe he lives a couple hours north of MPLS now. :brock and Shelton Benjamin were a tag team at one point called the Minnesota Stretching Crew and they wore maroon and gold. :mark So badass!! :mark: :mark: 

Ok, I will stop going Rand McNally on you haha. I'd be surprised if :brock does not do something at EC as close to home as it is. The way he is wired he is an introverted homebody. Fuck he could leave his house in the morning and be back at home the next day. Right up his alley. 

Also :lmao at your sig quote. That kid is a hoot. The same kid who thinks Johnny Manziel is the best college QB of all time and is essentially the second coming of Jesus Christ. Oh and he thinks Randy Savage sucked. :TIlaughing


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk/Rock always gets a *DUD*for me, watched it around 3 times now.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock's current deal is a lock until WrestleMania 31, and he's contracted to work 3 PPV's a year with the pattern normally being Extreme Rules/Summerslam/WrestleMania, except this year I think he's working Elimination Chamber (to win the title possibly) and skipping Extreme Rules to return to work Summerslam and WrestleMania 31. 

I see his current run going like this. 

EC - Chamber or Orton 
Mania 30 - The Undertaker
Summerslam - Batista
Mania 31 - The Rock


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

OK 1996 Royal Rumble time. Try not to suck ass please. I've seen the Bret/Taker match but can't remember much about it. 



YoungGun_UK said:


> I see his current run going like this.
> 
> EC - Chamber or Orton
> Mania 30 - The Undertaker
> ...


This makes a lot of sense but I would like to see one more Brock/Punk match. 

If this means Batista is a face until Summerslam that is annoying. As I have said sense the it was announced Bats is coming back I dig him as a heel but he's an awful face.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YoungGun_UK said:


> EC - Orton
> Mania 30 - The Undertaker
> Summerslam - Batista
> Mania 31 - The Rock


This is how he should be booked. I would want a Sheamus match squeezed in somewhere if possible but this is perfect. No more stupid rematches and all fresh opponents in money matches. A win/win for everyone involved except the hardcore Rock haters. (but fuck 'em! )

He wont be in any chamber match because if they booked one with all the top stars, too many would have to take pins or submit and they wont do that so close to Mania. I can see Batista defending his Rumble win in there with 5 others, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I know that according to what Heyman said, it'll be supposedly be Cena/Lesnar or (most likely) Orton/Lesnar, but fuck that, I want Lesnar/Batista at EC. I mean, yeah, they already had their match at OVW... but compare that to THIS we have today. I mean, isn't it minimally appealing to y'all?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It will probably happen at SummerSlam or maybe even ER.

No surprise coming for me, but I'd MUCH rather Orton/Brock than Batista.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Brock could wrestle anybody and I'll be interested. He's that damn good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/BENOIT/HBK II was great, lost alittle steam towards the end but was wonderful. I have to rewatch the mania match to see if it holds up ( might just watch mania 20 in general again tbh) and which is better. However from what I remember Benoit made that match. I thought all 3 pulled their weight equally in the rematch

that list of Brock matches on the last pg would be terrible if it would happen outside of like one match (taker)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

By all accounts, Brock is working Royal Rumble (probably against Henry). Maybe his supposed 'title' shot' is all smoke and mirrors, unless he gets it Mania of course....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock/Undertaker
Brock/Bryan
Brock/Sheamus
Brock/Reigns
Brock/Henry

Those are pretty much the only BROCK matches I wanna see out of the current roster. Maybe Brock/Show for old times sake.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I"d say sub out reigns/fella for cena/punk again but I understand if you just want all first times. I would much rather see those matches


Orton, Batista, the rock :ti ppl thought the hhh/lesnar were a waste


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why do I feel like only folks out here are the ones that truly want Brock/Reigns?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah the whole place has reigns fever not just this thread

In the more but some slugfest a , Any rec ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just went and watched the Orton/Brock squash from 2002 in Brock's DVD to get prepare for what is hopefully coming in a month or two and it's still a fun match. Orton's selling of the F5 was quite possibly the best I've ever seen. Just awesome how he bounced off the mat. If this is a small sample of what they are capable of, I'm 100% looking forward to what they can bring in a real match with a (hopefully) motivated Orton who is far better as a wrestler compared to the rookie in 2002.

Also lol @ them muting some of the commentary that talk about Brock facing Undertaker at Unforgiven. :lol I thought it was only Benoit or "un-PG" references that got muted but that seems to not be the case.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

King Cal said:


> Brock/Undertaker
> Brock/Bryan
> Brock/Sheamus
> Brock/Reigns
> ...


Replace Brock/Reigns with Brock/Harper and that'd also be my list.

Haven't seen Reigns in enough singles matches to gauge how a match with Brock would be.
Rock's return matches were disappointing and the original match with Brock sucked, so i don't want to be a second match.
A Punk or Cena rematch would be cool, but i wouldn't be mad if they don't do either again.
Have no interest in seeing Brock/Orton EVER.
Always been a Batista fan but a Brock/Batista match is iffy, it could be awesome or absolute sh*t.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Brock's dvd is great. I wished that when they re-released it that they extended the documentary a bit, it only goes up to Judgement Day 03. Also why did they have to add the Goldberg match in there? fpalm

Edit: Based on Summerslam I'm open to any kind of Brock matchup now, even Orton :side:


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

bme said:


> Replace Brock/Reigns with Brock/Harper and that'd also be my list.
> 
> Haven't seen Reigns in enough singles matches to gauge how a match with Brock would be.
> Rock's return matches were disappointing and the original match with Brock sucked, so i don't want to be a second match.
> ...


So you'd rather have 2 rematches instead of 2 fresh ones you don't have an idea how they would turn out to be? Lfe Punk/Brock which almost everyone shat on from the beginning due to the size difference.



> it could be awesome or absolute sh*t.


Couldn't that be said in almost every main event we get nowadays?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont know where that poster was coming from, but for me personally I'd rather have a cena/punk rematch w/ Brock as opposed to a reigns match. I'm not saying I'm against brock/reigns as I understand ppl want to see something new but I dont see any negatives in a punk or cena rematch after there first encounters were otherworldly good and tbh but feuds weren't ever finished properly

I have singled out the reign match because out of match vs. taker/bryan/henry the reigns one is the least one I'd look forward too


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> ppl thought the hhh/lesnar were a waste


3 matches were a waste. One match was all (if) needed.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Brock has a limited schedule and I'm not sure if he'll resign after WM 31. So why even bother with rematches? HHH took 2 too much so why do that shit again? If he's leaving after 31, it would mean he has 4 matches left. His last one could be to put over a younger talent, the other 3 should be against 3 different guys. Not sure if he's even going to wrestle Summer Slam when he's making an appearance at RR, EC and WM. Would mean they blew his schedule for the entire RTWM. There's no room for rematches in my opinion except for the Taker one but they were a decade ago, same w/Henry.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> 3 matches were a waste. One match was all (if) needed.


No, I know they (mania and ex) were a compelely waste, I'm saying if most think that was a waste, why would you waste Brock on Orton and The Rock ?



Sono Shion said:


> Brock has a limited schedule and I'm not sure if he'll resign after WM 31. So why even bother with rematches? HHH took 2 too much so why do that shit again? If he's leaving after 31, it would mean he has 4 matches left. His last one could be to put over a younger talent, the other 3 should be against 3 different guys. Not sure if he's even going to wrestle Summer Slam when he's making an appearance at RR, EC and WM. Would mean they blew his schedule for the entire RTWM. There's no room for rematches in my opinion except for the Taker one but they were a decade ago, same w/Henry.


Ok so if we are going on that he is done by wm 31 and have mostly likely 4 matches left then there is no room for a rematch

But I feel we are getting (hoping) Cena/Lesnar II ( well technically IIII) at ec


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> No, I know they (mania and ex) were a compelely waste, I'm saying if most think that was a waste, why would you waste Brock on Orton and The Rock ?


Because it's not a "waste".


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

I'd love to see Brock vs Batista, one of the few bit matches left that hasn't happened yet.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

An Orton V Brock match would be the most safely worked Lesnar match ever.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Sono Shion said:


> So you'd rather have 2 rematches instead of 2 fresh ones you don't have an idea how they would turn out to be? Lfe Punk/Brock which almost everyone shat on from the beginning due to the size difference.
> Couldn't that be said in almost every main event we get nowadays?


In this case, yes.
I've liked Reigns in the tag matches but that doesn't mean he can have quality singles matches, Hell he's only having his second singles match in WWE on monday.
I don't think a Brock/Orton could be good, Orton has his quality matches but more often then not he's dull as dirt.



SKINS25 said:


> I dont know where that poster was coming from, but for me personally I'd rather have a cena/punk rematch w/ Brock as opposed to a reigns match. I'm not saying I'm against brock/reigns as I understand ppl want to see something new but I dont see any negatives in a punk or cena rematch after there first encounters were otherworldly good and tbh but feuds weren't ever finished properly
> 
> I have singled out the reign match because out of match vs. taker/bryan/henry the reigns one is the least one I'd look forward too


What i mean is Brock/Cena & Brock/Punk were awesome matches, but since Brock isn't a full time wrestler i wouldn't be mad if they didn't give us a rematch of either match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Razor/Goldust from Rumble 1996 right now. Fucking hilarious. Pre AE Goldust was so great. So much homophobic heat. 



Clint Eastwood said:


> 3 matches were a waste. One match was all (if) needed.


I thought all 3 were good though. Which one of the 3 was your favorite? Everyone else answer as well. :agree:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I would be fine with Cena/Brock II if Brock goes over. Also fine with Brock/Orton if Brock goes over. Also fine with Brock/Punk, if Punk goes over. 

I do not think Lesnar should have a match with Reigns yet, too early, and Reigns is still pretty green.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

SummerSlam '12. - didn't like it
WM 29 - really good 
Extreme Rules '12 - ok

- Had no interest in Brock/HHH when it was being rumored as a match for SS.
- Even after they put on the 2nd best match of the night at WM, i didn't want to see the rubber match.
- Brock's selling in the cage match was cringeworthy and i didn't like the finish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did you just call Brock's selling in the cage match w/Trips *cringeworthy*? I'm sorry but do you even know what cringeworthy is? Unless it's on the good way that is. I mean to each his own of course, and I guess most didn't like seeing Bork as the underdog, but c'mon that was some really good selling right there, how can you find it cringeworthy?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

ATF said:


> Did you just call Brock's selling in the cage match w/Trips *cringeworthy*? I'm sorry but do you even know what cringeworthy is? Unless it's on the good way that is. I mean to each his own of course, and I guess most didn't like seeing Bork as the underdog, but c'mon that was some really good selling right there, how can you find it cringeworthy?


Lesnar with his size and reputation screaming like that and calling for Paul, it took me out of the match.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Anytime Brock is in a match with anybody, I'm watching. The man is a BEAST.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

bme said:


> Lesnar with his size and reputation screaming like that and calling for Paul, it took me out of the match.


Well, like I said, that's your own opinion, but that is not exactly bad selling as more as it is just a plothole on the match's booking. I do agree that they overdid it with Brock's underdog-ness. But the selling itself was glorious, man.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Lesnar/Orton and Lesnar/Rock can easily be considered as wasted Lesnar matches. Both matches would be terrible because the styles don't mesh, and in the case of Orton/Lesnar, the feud would be dreadful too. Neither are worth a damn on the mic.

The only Lesnar matches I'd be interested in would be:

vs. Cena II
vs. Punk II
vs. Sheamus
vs. Henry
vs. Undertaker
vs. Batista, maybe.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Lesnar VS Rock can fuck right off. In fact, I wouldn't be interested in any Rock match at this point unless Rock would be putting some young up and comer over. Perhaps Reigns, in a year or so. Or maybe Ambrose. Wouldn't mind him putting Cody over, either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

All dat :rock2 hate on these forums :lmao

:hbk2 :rock to main event Wrestlemania 32 at Cowboys Stadium


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I thought all 3 were good though. Which one of the 3 was your favorite? Everyone else answer as well. :agree:


Summerslam IMO. Feud should have ended there too, WM had some good moments, ALL from Brock, but dragged far too much for me. ER can fuck off. Brock should of never be put in a situation like that, esp in the fucking cage. Yeah he won the feud but whatever...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I pretty much like all Brock matches, so none of the Triple H matches bother me, but their really should have only been one


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cage match is my favorite by far. WM was okay, mainly thanks to Brock. Don't remember the SS match very much at this point so that needs a refresher.

Finished watching the 2005 chamber match. Still the greatest chamber match and unlikely to ever be topped. The star power in here is top notch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

After roaming around on the internet and getting some ideas, let's discuss HEELZ. Which, for you, are the heels that, living through kayfabe of course, you wish you could punch hard in the face for all the evil they caused?

Discounting Vince McMahon of fucking course.

Mine would have to be... maybe The Million Dollar Man.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Basham Brothers :troll

But seriously. I hate them.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The best heel ever to get me to legit hate him in a non x-pac heat/boring as shit heat.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm glad we've decided ahead of time what will suck and what won't. I'm sure the open minds will be plentiful when said matches actually happen...:side:


The last time Orton had to look vulnerable against a true monstrous type opponent, he looked great, and contributed to Henry looking great. I don't care how much this thread loves Henry, but it takes two to tango, and I can honestly say that Henry didn't look nearly as good in his matches with most everyone else...especially his heralded matches like the one with Cena (and I BOUGHT that damn PPV on the basis of all the excitement here about Henry/Cena...I really thought it'd be magnificent).

That's why though it's perfectly understandable why Christian fans were pissed as hell that he lost the belt pretty immediately, it all worked out in the end, because Henry looking dominant over Christian would have been seen as a lot less impressive, and certainly wouldn't have kicked off Henry's run in such a significant way.

Having said that, I don't know if that's the way they'll go with the match, and I think that I might find a different style of match approach more entertaining...but if that's the way they go, I do not believe based on Orton's history with these type of matches, that he'd have any problem with doing a great job in his role. I think that people really underrated him in this regard, and I've said that since the beginning. I believe that he does a good job of putting his opponents over, despite whatever shape or size. Like C2D said, Orton already did a great job in a complete squash, when he was much more green back then.


On another note, what would the story be with Punk/Lesnar again? I feel their match didn't leave any loose ends, with the exception of all of Heyman's involvement. Which is NOT what they should be capitalizing on anyway, because that was annoying.

It sounded like Heyman was shutting the door on any potential rematches with that speech he gave on Monday "Brock is not here to settle any grudges. Brock wins, and moves on..." Unless, of course, that was a red herring.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Some stars for some recent matches I've watched:


*HHH vs. Lesnar at Summerslam 2012 - *** 1/2.*


*HBK vs. Kurt Angle at WM21 - **** 1/2*. I knew the result of this, yet I still was just as invested as if I didn't know the outcome. It takes a lot for a match to do that, and this match accomplished that. Well deserving of any praise it gets, and this match felt like a roller coaster, with great crowd investment. This is a match I'd show someone, to get them into pro wrestling.

*HBK vs. Kurt Angle 30 Minute Iron Man Match [RAW] - ** 1/2.* This OTOH, I just could not get into. I stopped it multiple times and it just never sucked me in (Angle/Cena from No Mercy '03 had the same problem, though you all had good things to say about it. I did finally watch that whole thing, but it still didn't do much for me). There was nothing noticeably wrong with it, so it's weird when a match just doesn't tickle your fancy, but that's all there is to it. 

*HHH vs. Taker HIAC WM 28 - ***.* Fun, but not a "great" match. Overbooking to the point that it was comical, and comedy wasn't what it was going for. I don't mind overbooking when things are a circus, but this match was trying to take itself oh so seriously. I guess it shows how varied wrestling opinions can be, because I found their WM 27 match to be masterful, and it's like an alternate universe to me how their HIAC could be considered a better match...other than in a mindless fun sort of way.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on the starz on that one, since I watched it right after the WM 27 one which I adored, but whatevs. Maybe it'd be higher on a re-watch, but I'm pretty sure that my feelings on the match would remain the same.


*Michaels vs. HHH at Badd Blood '04 [HIAC] - **** 1/2.* One of those controversial opinions here, but I adored this. This is another one of HHH's better performances. Don't know why it's looked so down upon. I think the match mirrored exactly what they were going for, and I didn't feel like it was _too_ much of a finisher fest, because it was necessary for the story that they were trying to tell. Most importantly, it's not like either one of them were just kicking out of finishers without much thought. Both were down for quite some time, and just barely were able to keep surviving...and then they'd sell the exhaustion and pain for quite a few minutes after that.

Both men with way too much pride to lose to each other...to the point where it looked like they both might rather just bleed to death instead. I felt the match became more and more engrossing as it went on.

*Cena vs. Del Rio - Vengeance 2011 [Last Man Standing] - *** 3/4*. 

*Sheamus vs. Del Rio - Summerslam 2012 - *** 1/2.* More than solid, and makes me interested in some of their other matches, since apparently there were better ones. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


C2D - Thanks for answering. Not gonna click the spoiler 'til I watch, but I gather that it involves Chris Benoit. That makes sense, since Austin was getting involved in that Angle/Benoit Cage match around the same time, I believe.

Yeah, I was gonna say that the banishment of that Angle/Austin SS '01 match from DVDs seems Benoitish. Now it all makes sense.

I have not forgotten about that early Batista/Orton match, btw. Gonna be getting to that soon.


Zep - You're awesome, as always!!!!! Gonna dl that later.


'skins - It was Vengeance. I'm gonna check out that NOC match later, due to what you said.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

On Bork - I would've wanted a Punk rematch but that ship has sailed. The Punk/Heyman feud lasted 4 PPV matches, was hated for the last 3 and I don't see them ever revisiting it.

Matches I'd like to see him have; Undertaker at 30, Batista at SummerSlam, Rock at 31. Wouldn't mind a Sheamus match but I have no idea where they'd do it.



The Cynical Miracle said:


> An Orton V Brock match would be the most safely worked Lesnar match ever.


This is actually a fair point. WWE would probably think Orton vs Brock is a bigger threat to Randy's health than an Elimination Chamber match :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I havn't seen _Michaels vs. HHH at Badd Blood '04 [HIAC]_ in a long time, but unsure if i have a free 2 hours to watch it 

No problem, you WILL fucking love Austin/Angle (Y)


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Cage match is my favorite by far. WM was okay, mainly thanks to Brock. Don't remember the SS match very much at this point so that needs a refresher.
> 
> *Finished watching the 2005 chamber match. Still the greatest chamber match and unlikely to ever be topped. The star power in here is top notch.*


I remember loving this one as well, wish HBK would have replaced someone instead of being the ref..

I think I have it #3, with the original EC ( HBK winning was an amazing moment) and RAW EC 09 ( mostly for the Rey/Y2J and Rey/Edge amazing encounters, Edge/Rey both times in 09 and 2011 had fantastic showing in the EC against each-other ) above it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> I'm glad we've decided ahead of time what will suck and what won't. I'm sure the open minds will be plentiful when said matches actually happen...:side:
> 
> 
> The last time Orton had to look vulnerable against a true monstrous type opponent, he looked great, and contributed to Henry looking great. I don't care how much this thread loves Henry, but it takes two to tango, and I can honestly say that Henry didn't look nearly as good in his matches with most everyone else...especially his heralded matches like the one with Cena (and I BOUGHT that damn PPV on the basis of all the excitement here about Henry/Cena...I really thought it'd be magnificent).
> ...


Extremely well put. But that's just how it is. People only want to see their favorites in their spotlight and if they don't like somebody, they automatically dismiss everything involving them. I don't understand the talk of Orton not bumping either. His shoulders are injury prone but he's shown that he's willing to take a bump when needed. He took all the bumps in the TLC match with Cena (even if they were "safe") and Big Show chokeslammed the fuck out of him on the announce table a couple of months ago.

People talk about Brock as if bumping for him involves falling off a 10 foot ladder into concrete or something. Doubt Orton is scared to get F5ed through a table or take a overhead belly to belly.

In regards to Christian, I think his fans have the right to be pissed about the stupid booking. There's no reason he couldn't have had a lengthier reign with successful title defenses against other opponents before dropping it to Orton at MITB or SummerSlam before he would go on to put over Henry.



> On another note, what would the story be with Punk/Lesnar again? I feel their match didn't leave any loose ends, with the exception of all of Heyman's involvement. Which is NOT what they should be capitalizing on anyway, because that was annoying.
> 
> It sounded like Heyman was shutting the door on any potential rematches with that speech he gave on Monday "Brock is not here to settle any grudges. Brock wins, and moves on..." Unless, of course, that was a red herring.


Nah, hopefully the feud is put to rest permanently. I think continuing the Heyman feud without Brock was just their excuse to give Punk his payback without having to waste Brock with another loss and rematch considering his limited contract. The promo last week was hopefully just the official nail in the coffin for that feud with Heyman officially saying that he's moving on from Punk and will let bygones be bygones.



> C2D - Thanks for answering. Not gonna click the spoiler 'til I watch, but I gather that it involves Chris Benoit. That makes sense, since Austin was getting involved in that Angle/Benoit Cage match around the same time, I believe.
> 
> Yeah, I was gonna say that the banishment of that Angle/Austin SS '01 match from DVDs seems Benoitish. Now it all makes sense.


No actually. Benoit was out with a neck injury at that point, just two months before SummerSlam. He has nothing to do with it, but I wont say anything else in fear of revealing the result.

That didn't stop them from including the Survivor Series 99 match between Austin and HHH on DVD where Benoit was involved at one point. Obviously the idiots edited that part out so the match made no sense there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

First EC match is so fucking overrated IMO :lmao 

I like it, **** IMO, but I've seen fucking 5 stars for it and its just not that IMO


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> First EC match is so fucking overrated IMO :lmao
> 
> I like it, **** IMO, but I've seen fucking 5 stars for it and its just not that IMO


maybe on a 2nd or 3rd rewatch it goes down, but when I first watched it and had no idea who'd win, seeing HHH crawl to cover a bloody beaten HBK after the pedigree, and HBK KICKING OUT WAS A " HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME MOMENT " .. it's still one of the biggest mark out moment I ever experienced.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> First EC match is so fucking overrated IMO :lmao
> 
> I like it, **** IMO, but I've seen fucking 5 stars for it and its just not that IMO


I definitely think it's a good match, but I agree with you. Doesn't crack my top five.

NYR '05 (nearly five stars, imo)
Raw '09
Raw '08
SD '11
SD '10

Also, I'm sure Orton would bump good enough in a match against Lesnar. It's not like he's supposed to be Jeff Hardy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

yeah the last 10 minutes of the match are :mark: but up until HBK comes in it just bores me a little, I think I have it at like 4 behind NYR 05 and both NWO 08 chambers. 

If your in the mood for some more EC matches, watch the NWO 08 matches, both are AMAZING


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> yeah the last 10 minutes of the match are :mark: but up until HBK comes in it just bores me a little, I think I have it at like 4 behind NYR 05 and both NWO 08 chambers.
> 
> If your in the mood for some more EC matches, watch the NWO 08 matches, both are AMAZING


Umaga's performance in the '08 one is one of my favorite things ever. I love that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For me the best chamber matches go like this:

1. NYR 05 (by faaaaaaaaar)
2. SVS 02
3. Raw 08
4. SD 11
5. 2013

Need to rewatch the 2011 and Raw 2009 ones, though. Not a big fan of SD 2010 other than the Jericho/Taker part. Pretty dull until it comes down to the final two.

Love the Raw 08 one, it's almost like a new version of 2005. Jericho is Jericho, Umaga is Batista, HHH is HHH, HBK is Benoit, Hardy is Orton and JBL is Edge (just because they're the odd man out). They even redid the Crossface/Walls spot.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wasn't that the one where FINLEY is a boss in? IDK how a match with fucking Viscera and Khali in it is so good :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> For me the best chamber matches go like this:
> 
> 1. NYR 05 (by faaaaaaaaar)
> 2. SVS 02
> ...


Raw '09 one was actually really good overall, imo. Especialyl when it comes down to Jericho, Edge & Rey. 

I thought Morrison was pretty good near the end of the '10 one. I really liked his performance although I just remembered how awesome Morrison was in the '11 one.

I gotta watch the 2013 again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> IThe last time Orton had to look vulnerable against a true monstrous type opponent, he looked great, and contributed to Henry looking great. I don't care how much this thread loves Henry, but it takes two to tango, and I can honestly say that Henry didn't look nearly as good in his matches with most everyone else...especially his heralded matches like the one with Cena (and I BOUGHT that damn PPV on the basis of all the excitement here about Henry/Cena...I really thought it'd be magnificent).
> 
> That's why though it's perfectly understandable why Christian fans were pissed as hell that he lost the belt pretty immediately, it all worked out in the end, because Henry looking dominant over Christian would have been seen as a lot less impressive, and certainly wouldn't have kicked off Henry's run in such a significant way.


Yeah I disagree with a TON of this . For starters I don't think much to the Henry/Orton matches at all. Henry was ok, Orton was decentish, and it resulted in a couple of average PPV matches for me. So pointing to these matches as a reason Orton might look good against Lesnar is like pointing to a sandman match to prove that the original ECW was awesome .

Secondly, Christian would have done a MUCH better job against Henry if he was still the champ and a babyface (basically never dropping the belt to Orton and never turning heel), because Christian as a babyface is on a whole other level to anything Orton is capable of. Beating Orton might MEAN more to kickstart Henry's reign, because Orton has been booked on a whole other level to Christian, but Christian would have make it LOOK far better and Henry could have kickstarted his reign in spectacular fashion.

Man, now I wish Lesnar would at least have some random TV matches to showcase his dominance before a big PPV fight. Lesnar Vs Christian could be :mark: for no other reason than Christian could sell Lesnar's beatdown better than 99% of people on the planet. And I don't think they ever faced, even in a tag match, when Lesnar was first around, right? A random TV squash of Christian that is NEVER gonna happen is already more appealing to me than Orton Vs Lesnar in a high profile PPV match :lmao.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> yeah the last 10 minutes of the match are :mark: but up until HBK comes in it just bores me a little, I think I have it at like 4 behind NYR 05 and both NWO 08 chambers.
> 
> If your in the mood for some more EC matches, watch the NWO 08 matches, both are AMAZING


I'll watch SD one, Undertaker vs Edge was my dream match since WM 22 ( when Edge went 5-0 at WM) and I've wanted to see that match ever since, so seeing Taker finally win was a HUGE RELIEF back then ( although I kinda expected it but..you never know  )



Brye said:


> *Raw '09 one was actually really good overall, imo. Especialyl when it comes down to Jericho, Edge & Rey.
> *
> I thought Morrison was pretty good near the end of the '10 one. I really liked his performance although I just remembered how awesome Morrison was in the '11 one.
> 
> I gotta watch the 2013 again.


and this , I have it in my top 3 , Rey was easily a top 3 worker back then in 2009 from what I remember ( Rey/Y2J series, Rey/Edge, Rey/Morrison, Rey/Ziggler, this EC..)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Summerslam IMO. Feud should have ended there too, WM had some good moments, ALL from Brock, but dragged far too much for me. ER can fuck off. Brock should of never be put in a situation like that, esp in the fucking cage. Yeah he won the feud but whatever...


I get that mentality b/c Triple H the twonk "wounded him", but Brock proved he's more than a one note type of guy. Everything I loved about the steel cage match was all thanks to BROCK & him alone. _(plus Heyman)_ So I choose to look at it like that. Original viewing I did think the match sucked. Glad I took the time to bother w/it again.

Also, Brock vs Orton or Rock are obvious waste of matches. Those sound awful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> I get that mentality b/c Triple H the twonk "wounded him", but Brock proved he's more than a one note type of guy. Everything I loved about the steel cage match was all thanks to BROCK & him alone. _(plus Heyman)_ So I choose to look at it like that. Original viewing I did think the match sucked. Glad I took the time to bother w/it again.


Yeah, maybe the match needs a second watch from me to try and appreciate it more/in a different light. :hmm:

Still can't see me changing my mind though, it's my Trips hate in that match i can't seem to look past i think.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I'm glad we've decided ahead of time what will suck and what won't. I'm sure the open minds will be plentiful when said matches actually happen...:side:
> 
> 
> The last time Orton had to look vulnerable against a true monstrous type opponent, he looked great, and contributed to Henry looking great. I don't care how much this thread loves Henry, but it takes two to tango, and I can honestly say that Henry didn't look nearly as good in his matches with most everyone else...especially his heralded matches like the one with Cena (and I BOUGHT that damn PPV on the basis of all the excitement here about Henry/Cena...I really thought it'd be magnificent).
> ...


I respectfully disagree, and I wont even take sides w/ Cal as I do enjoy the henry/orton series a ton. Tbh put most in that situation as Orton and they do the same thing, I know your not high on Henry but the man is incredible and a one man carry job is possible,( and I'm not implying that took place)

I IMO it may be in unpopular o but I thought henry/cena was sensational and better than the orton matches. Henry has had stellar matches of that type w/ many other

Tbh a poster put a point across I didnt even think of and another red flag on a orton/brock. It will be a very safe worked match.Isnt the company alittle leery of a taker/brock because of Brock's roughness ? If that is the case then I would expect the same out of a Orton match



Prime Evil said:


> Also, Brock vs Orton or Rock are obvious waste of matches. Those sound awful.


Thank you I'm not the only one



EdiT Yea Zep rewatch the Cage match, I loved it on a 3rd watch


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd give Lesnar/Orton some possible hope. But my god Rock/Brock would literally have potential to be worse than Brock/Goldberg.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Been in having RA fix the last couple of days, could anyone recommend something ? Preferably a slugfest


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brock/Rock was a great, fun match back at Summerslam 2002. If it does end up being Brock/Rock at Wrestlemania, hopefully it'll be like that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Brock/Rock was a great, fun match back at Summerslam 2002. If it does end up being Brock/Rock at Wrestlemania, hopefully it'll be like that.


The Rock is a gazillion miles away from 2002. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clint Eastwood said:


> The Rock is a GASillion miles away from 2002. :side:


Fixed :side:

.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol.

Pretty sure Rock would bulk down and do a shitload of cardio workouts for the Brock match at WM31. Good thing money is what matters to WWE, so they would much rather do the RIGHT match-up rather than the shitfests this site hopes for


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> The Rock is a gazillion miles away from 2002. :side:


I'm somewhat of an optimist, what can I say :draper2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yeah, maybe the match needs a second watch from me to try and appreciate it more/in a different light. :hmm:
> 
> Still can't see me changing my mind though, it's my Trips hate in that match i can't seem to look past i think.


Understandable. 

BROCK tho. He wins me over even when things are looking dire.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Pretty sure Rock would bulk down and do a shitload of cardio workouts for the Brock match at WM31. Good thing money is what matters to WWE, so they would much rather do the RIGHT match-up rather than the shitfests this site hopes for


The right matches would be matches where the Rock isn't involved.




Lesnar hopping on one leg while saying 'that's my manager' made him look like a weakling child who needed a non-wrestlers help to beat the mighty God Hunter Hearst Helmlsley. Which is almost the opposite of what should have happened. Brock's leg selling was obviously really good, but it was in a situation that shouldn't have existed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> lol.
> 
> Pretty sure Rock would bulk down and do a shitload of cardio workouts for the Brock match at WM31. Good thing money is what matters to WWE, so they would much rather do the RIGHT match-up rather than the shitfests this site hopes for


WWE could lose 3 billion dollars on Bryan/Taker and it wouldn't bother me one bit if the match was awesome. Actually, it still wouldn't bother me that they lost 3 billion for anything. :side:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Bryan/Taker would be :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> WWE could lose 3 billion dollars on Bryan/Taker and it wouldn't bother me one bit if the match was awesome. *Actually, it still wouldn't bother me that they lost 3 billion for anything.* :side:


Same here. I don't care about their money, but I'm lucky enough that my interests are where the money is. So it's a win/win for me and the WWE themselves while you guys are not so interested in what seems to be in the plans. What that means, that it looks like I will get my wish because I don't have over the top wishes that involve part-timers facing midcarders. 

But that bold part, it wouldn't? It should because it may affect their ability to put on a show which is a loss for both the company AND the viewers.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Same here. I don't care about their money, but I'm lucky enough that my interests are where the money is. So it's a win/win for me and the WWE themselves while you guys are not so interested in what seems to be in the plans. What that means, that it looks like I will get my wish because I don't have over the top wishes that involve part-timers facing midcarders.
> 
> *But that bold part, it wouldn't? It should because it may affect their ability to put on a show which is a loss for both the company AND the viewers.*


Eh, if anything it would shake things up. Whether it means WWE goes under and a new company comes up or that WWE starts drastically changing things. The talented would still have jobs somewhere and wrestling will always have a place in mainstream media. Whether all of that would end up good or not is beyond me but at least it would be different. Granted this will never happen. :side:

In this situation are we calling Taker the part timer and Bryan the midcarder? :argh:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> In this situation are we calling Taker the part timer and Bryan the midcarder? :argh:


Not really. I was more thinking of something like Brock or The Rock facing the likes of Ziggler and Cody Rhodes, ideas that I've seen thrown around but ones that are not gonna happen any time soon for obvious reasons.

I actually wouldn't be against Bryan/Taker at all. Would be a hell of a match and gives Bryan something relevant to do if HHH wont put him over.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Not really. I was more thinking of something like Brock or The Rock facing the likes of Ziggler and Cody Rhodes, ideas that I've seen thrown around but ones that are not gonna happen any time soon for obvious reasons.
> 
> I actually wouldn't be against Bryan/Taker at all. Would be a hell of a match and gives Bryan something relevant to do if HHH wont put him over.


Oh yeah, I don't ever see either of those happening haha.

Taker/Bryan is something I want to see this year, mostly because it's possibly the only opportunity we'll have for this match. Although I'm pretty confident Bryan will still be in the main event next year, I don't know how many of these Taker has left.

The two things I don't want at Mania are Cena/Trips and Punk/Orton. Both have happened enough times and I really don't think either has that good of chemistry with the other. Realistically and ideally I'd like Cena/Taker, Punk/Trips, Orton/Bryan/Lesnar. Dunno where that would leave Batista, unfortunately. Or Bryan/Taker, Cena/Batista, Punk/Trips and Lesnar/Orton? There's eight big names, plus possibly Sheamus. But it's difficult matching them up realistically.

Plus there's also those Cena/Hogan vs Real Americans rumors and who knows why the Wyatt Family situation will bring.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

We have Brock/Batista/taker/Cena/Punk/Bryan/Orton..........Trips 

As the main hitters, maybe even HBK/Goldberg/Hogan.

I mean, how can they fuck this up................right? :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Clint Eastwood said:


> We have Brock/Batista/taker/Cena/Punk/Bryan/Orton..........Trips
> 
> As the main hitters, maybe even HBK/Goldberg/Hogan.
> 
> I mean, how can they fuck this up................right? :side:


Don't forget we've probably got a 70% of seeing Sheamus back by then too unless they decide to hold out on him.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

List of BROCK dream matches in order with current roster

Brock/Bryan 
Brock/Henry
Brock/Christian
Brock/Sheamus
Brock/REIGNS or Rollins

Brock/Rock and Brock/Orton can fuck off, I'm not subjecting myself to Brock/Rock, or any rock match in 2014

Bryan/Taker is a dream match of mine, Bryan and Taker's styles would mesh so well, and we now how GOAT Taker is at WM and we know how incredible Bryan is. So my expectations for that match would be extraordinarily high.

Brock/Bryan has the potential to be a classic match, I have brock/cena at ****3/4 and I think Bryan could put on just as good of a babyface performance (maybe better?) than Cena due to size difference and how electric Bryan's comeback sequence is and Bryan's incredible long term selling/storytelling. Plus Lesnar would destroy Bryan, it would be Bryan/Morishima but better and that is just...... :mark:

Also Brock/Punk ****1/2 nearly ****3/4

EDIT: This reminds me to watch Bryan/Morishima at Manhattan Mayhem again :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I would totally lose my shit if Brock/Bryan happens at some point. Sadly chances are zero to little.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tis why i'm a tad surprised Brock has agreed to work the Rumble against Henry (probably) TBH.

Unless he has agreed to work an extra PPV, RR/WM and SS we gonna see Brock at. Fuck, i want him at every god damn PPV


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I'd love to see Bryan/Brock happen. Bryan could work the little man vs. big man dynamic so well that it would be a real treat to see him work with Brock.

Also, even though this could never happen, I'd like to see Brock/Ziggler. Ziggler over-selling Brock's attacks :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Oh yeah, I don't ever see either of those happening haha.
> 
> Taker/Bryan is something I want to see this year, mostly because it's possibly the only opportunity we'll have for this match. Although I'm pretty confident Bryan will still be in the main event next year, I don't know how many of these Taker has left.
> 
> ...


I don't want to see Cena/Hunter and Punk/Orton either.

If HBK would agree to return it would be wonderful as Bryan would finally be occupied with something.

Something like:
Cena vs Taker
Brock (Rumble winner) vs Orton (c)
Batista vs Sheamus
Bryan vs HBK
Punk vs HHH

That would be the best card.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Tis why i'm a tad surprised Brock has agreed to work the Rumble against Henry (probably) TBH.
> 
> Unless he has agreed to work an extra PPV, RR/WM and SS we gonna see Brock at. Fuck, i want him at every god damn PPV


Brock/Henry has me salivating, just two incredible monsters destroying each other for 15 minutes.

Brock is just so damn good at professional wrestling, just an absolute natural, I'm with you, just have him at every PPV


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Also, even though this could never happen, I'd like to see Brock/Ziggler. Ziggler over-selling Brock's attacks :mark:



I'd rather see Dolph or Rollins sell the Stunner.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Also, even though this could never happen, I'd like to see Brock/Ziggler. Ziggler over-selling Brock's attacks :mark:


^^ Just want everyone to know I DIDNT post this ( I agree though )

We should rename this Offical Brock Lesnar and mania card predictions thread 




lesnar/christian and lesnar/bryan would be amazing


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> We should rename this Offical Brock Lesnar


Well, i wouldn't have a problem with that. :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I could imagine Brock doing this to Ziggler lol:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My most unrealistic BORK dream match would be a five minute extended squash w/ Evan Bourne. Give Bourne a small hope spot, but otherwise just have Lesnar play cat and mouse with him then proceed to destroy. Would be unbelievable.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlemania 13 is upon me now. Just finished the go-home show and that chaotic final segment with Bret pretty much turning heel and Austin being the bad motherfucker he is was just awesome. You don't see shit like this anymore nowadays.

Not really looking forward to the PPV other than rewatching Austin/Bret for the first time in a couple of years. :lol @ the Bret/Sid cage match with Austin and Taker's interference on top of the cage. Was funny to see the WM opponents team up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It pains me how close we could be to getting a believable/feasible Brock vs Danielson match, yet it won't happen b/c the company is intent on not letting Danielson have that spotlight. Meanwhile, we'll probably see Langston do something vs Brock first. Umm.

For some reason a Brock & Drew McIntyre union just popped up in my head after reading about Brock killing Bourne. Those two dudes being pricks & insane fuckers in matches together makes me want to do sick things to myself.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So there apparently was a good Swagger/Kidd match on superstars

Has anyone seen it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whenever I find a link for it, I'm all over that.

Original XWT account goes down and WWE gives me two matches on Superstars I'd actually WANT to see. Grr. Glad I got that resolved for the time being.


----------



## G-Rated Is Coming (Jan 3, 2014)

Over the past few days I've downloaded the entire RAW/SD/PPV library between 2002-2004 (my favourite period). And the PPVs from 2001 and 2005.

Worth revisiting RAW/SD from 2001 & 2005? Any other years you'd recommend? I love the segments from 2001 but the roster/matches were very thin on TV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown in 2006 is a favorite around here. Lots of good matches, especially from Finlay, Benoit, and Mysterio. I really like RAW in 2008, Smackdown and ECW in 2009, and last year in general. You should definitely cop everything from 2000. Best year in company history.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Eddie vs Mysterio from Judgment Day for the first time since going through 2005 last year. I think I prefer the Smackdown match clearly at this point but this was solid. Too bad it kind of slows down from the intense beginning when Eddie goes all out and is at his most vicious. Great face/heel work by both as usual, although it's definitely Eddie who shines the brightest here. And that heel turn promo... :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow. So much Lesnar discussion in here. Nothing to add except that I'm just looking forward to the Road to the Rumble and then to Mania. Also hope that Bryan finishes completely with Wyatt before Mania. Like, REALLY HOPE.

Firing up Benoit/Finlay JD 2006 for the first time ever. Not sure what made my think of it but it's happening.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen Finlay vs Benoit before? The peak has now been reached.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Enjoyed Benoit/Finlay. Finlay is fucking ROUGH. Love how after Benoit's initial comeback Finlay just knocks him right down. German suplex on the floor :mark: Crazy how Finlay tapped right away though. That collar/elbow in the beginning :lol Need more Benoit matches in my life honestly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch all of their matches RIGHT NOW. The Benoit vs Regal & Regal vs Finlay ones too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody looking for some slug fest, preferably during the ruthless aggression


Glad you liked it HHH, as I was telling you its good, not as high on it as most in here


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Prime Evil said:


> Watch all of their matches RIGHT NOW. The Benoit vs Regal & Regal vs Finlay ones too.


Maybe tomorrow. Royal Rumble 1992 needs to get watched first. But after watching Regal/Cesaro from NXT, just thinking about watching a Regal match makes me :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Any of the Undertaker vs A-Train or Brock Lesnar vs Big Show matches sound like some good bets.

Bradshaw matches too. If his opponents aren't small, you'll luck out w/99% of his work. I'm almost positive.

I almost was in the mood for a Rumble match too. I may go w/an obscure pick. Something like 1996 or something. One I remember next to nothing about. _(probably b/c it isn't special)_ So be it. I'm only looking for a nostalgia trip as it is.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Royal Rumble 1995 is nowhere near as bad as people say it is. It's actually kinda fun.

Now Survivor Series 1998. There's a piece of shit show. 13 duds. THIRTEEN! The main event is the only one that is above that.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Royal Rumble 1995 is nowhere near as bad as people say it is. It's actually kinda fun.
> 
> Now Survivor Series 1998. There's a piece of shit show. 13 duds. THIRTEEN! The main event is the only one that is above that.


Survivor Series 1998 has to be the worst WWE PPV for match quality that I've ever seen.

Oh look we have a massive heel turn at the end of the show, let's just give you shit matches for the entire ppv and let a heel turn be the entire point.

Fuck that PPV


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I will admit that the idea behind it was successful and it's kinda fun, but there is no replay value. None. Somehow even Regal/X-Pac sucked.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't want to see Cena/Hunter and Punk/Orton either.
> 
> If HBK would agree to return it would be wonderful as Bryan would finally be occupied with something.
> 
> ...


Batista/Sheamus didn't cross my mind but that actually sounds like an awesome slugfest.

That card, plus Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose and Rhodes Bros vs Henry & Big E in a face/face match maybe would make for an awesome show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The 1995 Royal Rumble is no different from the rest. Lots of folk enter w/no chance in hell and it comes down to the only 2-4 people who have a chance. That field is grouped in w/a ton of "New Generation" gimmicks that it only looks bad by happenstance. MANTAUR, Aldo Montoya, Rick Martel (lol, why?) all up in there. Yet Owen Hart & Bob Backlund are chucked out fast to feed into their long standing war w/Bret Hart. Dick Murdoch being in it was cool though. Some good sluggers were up in there. Him, Crush, Adam Bomb, Mabel, Barbarian but not under that name. It should have only been those guys beating the tar out of each other.

^this basically says I don't mind the match either, btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> It pains me how close we could be to getting a believable/feasible Brock vs Danielson match, yet it won't happen b/c the company is intent on not letting Danielson have that spotlight. Meanwhile, we'll probably see Langston do something vs Brock first. Umm.


Yeah that is the point i've been trying to make regarding Brock's Rumble appearance. Just seems random, with how special he is and his limited appearances, i want to see him against the best, in the best possible matches. I mean, we only get 3 a year from the guy FFS, and who knows if he is sticking around after WM31.

I mean i like Henry and it could be a good big battle match if it happens, but i dunno, i just want more,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry match would be a good acceptable way to establish Brock has the beast we all know he is. Henry is experienced & good enough tho be credible as an opponent & he's plenty accomplished to take a licking by Brock, only to have the next day w/o it effecting his own dominance. He certainly isn't shy about putting people over. Brock can slam through him in a fairly swift match, look insane, and head into what appears to be his championship match slated for Feb.

Who knows the plan right now. I really do fear WWE are going the ludicrous route in only using Henry as a pawn so Brock can work vs the new flavor of the week if indeed planned to have a match for the Rumble. _(which I'm actually doubting is the case)_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, another point. Again, i can't see Brock working three PPV's in a row (RR/EC/WM) then be's gone 'till next year. Unless he has agreed to work an extra PPV, and not ER, then of course he can still attend Summerslam too.

I certainly hope that IS the case though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Feb PPV almost feels like the hint at what they're driving towards. It's believable too w/how Rock showed up to defend the championship last year. WWE may be more content in having Brock around for the bulk of the road to WM, instead of post-WM a la last year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Finlay from Judgment Day is the last match I watched in 2013.  Still as awesome as ever.

And I think Brock is definitely working Elimination Chamber. It's in his hometown, so it's probably cheaper to ask for him to work a match on this show. Wouldn't be surprised if he worked 4 PPVs this year.



Brye said:


> Batista/Sheamus didn't cross my mind but that actually sounds like an awesome slugfest.
> 
> That card, plus Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose and Rhodes Bros vs Henry & Big E in a face/face match maybe would make for an awesome show.


Indeed. That's one card where all the big names including Sheamus would have something relevant to do.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm pretty excited for a Punk/Batista match if the rumours are true and the match is in the books for Summerslam. I think that they had a match at Great American Bash in 2008 or 2009, but I remember it being awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> I'm pretty excited for a Punk/Batista match if the rumours are true and the match is in the books for Summerslam. I think that they had a match at Great American Bash in 2008 or 2009, but I remember it being awful.


GAB 08, just watched it for the first time since 08 like, 2 days ago and it was pretty fun . ***1/4 for it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Might give it a rewatch, I remember it being a pretty dull match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are a few minutes with Batista working over Punk's back that aren't too great (JBL did a MUCH better job at SS), but then they go into like a 10 minute finishing stretch (not a big crazy overdoing it finishing stretch) and it really makes the match for me. Starts off fun too. Just those few minutes of Batista in complete control that aren't so good. I'd have gone higher on the match if he didn't suck at that .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Hope we get something special tonight on RAW. 




Brye said:


> But my god Rock/Brock would literally have potential to be worse than Brock/Goldberg.


Brock/Rock wouldn't be as bad as that. Just for the simple fact that at least the two wouldn't go out there and half ass their match and make a mockery of everything like Brock/Goldberg did. Still hate to this day that Brock/Goldberg did that. It was embarrassing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching the extras on the Judgment Day 2004 DVD:

'JBL Hunting For Illegal Aliens'



and the pre-match promo, before i watch the JBL/Eddie match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Just went and watched the Orton/Brock squash from 2002 in Brock's DVD to get prepare for what is hopefully coming in a month or two and it's still a fun match. Orton's selling of the F5 was quite possibly the best I've ever seen. Just awesome how he bounced off the mat. If this is a small sample of what they are capable of, I'm 100% looking forward to what they can bring in a real match with a (hopefully) motivated Orton who is far better as a wrestler compared to the rookie in 2002.
> 
> Also lol @ them muting some of the commentary that talk about Brock facing Undertaker at Unforgiven. :lol I thought it was only Benoit or "un-PG" references that got muted but that seems to not be the case.


1) I need to see Orton bumping his ass off for Brock and 2) Why did they edit the commentary?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Why did they edit the commentary?


Damned if I know.

It's one thing when they mute references made to Benoit but this one made no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao decided to put a random RR match on for the hell of it and settled with 07. The match starts and I see a sign that says:

*R*andy on his
*K*nees
*O*rton

:lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On the pre-match hype video for Eddie/JBL, Eddie: "I'm gonna kick the living shit out of you" 

Also on Brock's DVD, they took out then ending of the Taker/Brock (Unforgiven) match where they crash through the sign too.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So I finished Unforgiven 04 & that show is still only a 2 match show with Kane/HBK being MOTN in my opinion & Evolution vs Beniot/Regal is quite fun because they just beat the shit out of each other & the divas championship match wasn't half bad as well.

Also finished No Mercy 04 last night & damn do I love that show London/Kidman, Tag Titles, Show/Angle & Last Ride Match :mark:

I really love the tag titles and Last Ride match even more after this watch & London/Kidman is still my MOTN.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Flair/Funk I Quit (Clash 4) is supposed to be really good right? Don't think I've seen it and it's probably a good time to change that..


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah flair/funk is a must watch, so fucking fun


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's from Clash 9, but yeah, all time classic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why do I have a feeling they're going to unleash Austin (he's confirmed for the WWE "groundbreaking announcement" after all) and possibly Shield/Wyatts (since they're breaking the Shield up before WM) tonight?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's from Clash 9, but yeah, all time classic.


Damn roman numerals


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:banderas


Raw should be EPIC tonite, to bad Shawn Michaels probably wont show  tonight would have been jizzworthy


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Only reason my niners won (Y) :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Flair/Funk I Quit (Clash 4) is supposed to be really good right? Don't think I've seen it and it's probably a good time to change that..


Watch GAB first.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone know where I can find the Hardcore Holly vs RVD match from ECW? I got bored in the airport and read the entire Bob Holly bio (lol random right? It was damn good though) and he calls the match were he sliced his back open the best match of his career. Can't remember if I've seen the whole thing though I've obviously seen the highlights....


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Anyone know where I can find the Hardcore Holly vs RVD match from ECW? I got bored in the airport and read the entire Bob Holly bio (lol random right? It was damn good though) and he calls the match were he sliced his back open the best match of his career. Can't remember if I've seen the whole thing though I've obviously seen the highlights....




Handy that we can embed Dailymotion vids now. (Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Anyone know where I can find the Hardcore Holly vs RVD match from ECW? I got bored in the airport and read the entire Bob Holly bio (lol random right? It was damn good though) and he calls the match were he sliced his back open the best match of his career. Can't remember if I've seen the whole thing though I've obviously seen the highlights....


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...06-rvd-vs-bob-holly-extreme-rules-match_sport


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;28323289 said:


> Only reason my niners won (Y) :mark:


Most definitely, I showed my older brother it a couple hours ago and he marked (big 49ers fan). Honestly hope they let him just cut a 30 min promo tonite


@Nost your avi :banderas but why did you lose the sig


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey Cody here's that superstars link ya wanted http://watchwrestling.tv/watch-wwe-superstars-1314/

Cactus tell me how that Bob Holly match is, really dont like his matches usually


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Hey Cody here's that superstars link ya wanted http://watchwrestling.tv/watch-wwe-superstars-1314/
> 
> Cactus tell me how that Bob Holly match is, really dont like his matches usually



Me either to be perfectly honest, that's why it was so random that a.) I read 300+ pages about Bob Holly and b.) thoroughly enjoyed it.

If C2D reads this, my fellow Benoit obsessed member, he has a whole bunch of stuff on his friendship with Eddie and Benoit and the time they spent riding together. He corroborates what you said about Eddie, that Vince ran his ass into the ground even though Eddie was begging for time off. No wonder they take such good care of Vickie, not that she isn't a good heater in he own right.

I just rewatched Foley/Orton Backlash. Without question this is Randy's greatest bout. It's amazing what 20 minutes in the ring can do for the perception of a wrestler and their career. Randy went toe to toe with one of the baddest men on the planet and it completely legitimized him. I don't know that anyone has had more matches that benefit both involved more than Foley. You could make a case for the Undertaker being neck and neck with him in that regard but that's pretty much it. And Foley was Takers first great opponent and first great feud work wise. I know I'm biased but there is a lot of truth to that statement. It's a shame there isn't someone like that in the WWE right now who could help out guys like Ziggler, Reigns. Rollins, Rhodes, etc.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may check that out SMITTY


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Me either to be perfectly honest, that's why it was so random that a.) I read 300+ pages about Bob Holly and b.) thoroughly enjoyed it.
> 
> If C2D reads this, my fellow Benoit obsessed member, he has a whole bunch of stuff on his friendship with Eddie and Benoit and the time they spent riding together. He corroborates what you said about Eddie, that Vince ran his ass into the ground even though Eddie was begging for time off. No wonder they take such good care of Vickie, not that she isn't a good heater in he own right.
> 
> I just rewatched Foley/Orton Backlash. Without question this is Randy's greatest bout. It's amazing what 20 minutes in the ring can do for the perception of a wrestler and their career. Randy went toe to toe with one of the baddest men on the planet and it completely legitimized him. I don't know that anyone has had more matches that benefit both involved more than Foley. You could make a case for the Undertaker being neck and neck with him in that regard but that's pretty much it. And Foley was Takers first great opponent and first great feud work wise. I know I'm biased but there is a lot of truth to that statement. It's a shame there isn't someone like that in the WWE right now who could help out guys like Ziggler, Reigns. Rollins, Rhodes, etc.


Apparently he's a better writer than a wrestler :kobe10

pretty sure this is the first time in a while I've been pumped for RAW


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Apparently he's a better writer than a wrestler :kobe10
> 
> pretty sure this is the first time in a while I've been pumped for RAW



Smiitty or anyone else. I definitely cosign that RVD/Holly ECW match. That was a kick ass match. I enjoy legitimacy, stiffness, and 2 guys knocking each other senseless. That was that match in a nutshell. I cringed 4-5 times at some of the stuff they did to each other. The only problem I see is that Holly should have been the heel in this match, but after the gash, it turns into a face vs face match. I'm sure Holly wasn't even selling that much, just all the faces he would make whenever he landed on his back after the gash opened up just got him a ton of sympathy. I can honestly say I haven't seen a better Holly match, and it's probably in the top 20 for RVD as well. I think ***3/4-**** is about right. Definitely worth the 17 or so minutes to watch. Outside of the apron suplex through a table that opens up the gash, the nastiest part of the match is Holly countering a 5 star frog splash by throwing a chair into RVD's face while he's flying though the air. There is just no way to protect a guy and do that move realistically, so as a result RVD just eats a face full of steel chair :mark:

Thanks again Smitty/Nostalgia for the link.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Decided to watch a random Royal Rumble match in preparation for what's to come this month. Settled with the '03 one and it's still one of my favorites!

The development of the Michaels vs. Jericho program was flawless! Jericho had the opportunity to pick any number entrant he wanted and instead of picking the special #30 spot like most predicted he would, he picks the #2 spot. Why? Because he was well aware of the fact that Michaels was announced as the #1 entrant, and that's how much it meant to Jericho wanting to get his bare hands on him. The ultimate heel was shown as Jericho was out there ripping a bunch of dirty tactics in the book to get Michaels out of the same ring he was in. He used Christian as a Y2J impersonator to fool Michaels into thinking it was the real him. He sneaked attacked Michaels from behind as he was distracted, he hit a low blow, he used a steel char shot to the head, and he quickly eliminated Michaels out of the Royal Rumble. Would have to say Jericho had the standout performance in the match, for that and the fact that he was putting on the show with guys like Mysterio, Edge, RVD and Eddie, he managed to stay in the match for the longest amount of time, and he even used imitated Michaels by using the ropes for leverage to pull himself back up. Michaels coming out to settle the score with Jericho was quite nice!

Could have bet my own house that Undertaker was going to come out on top that night, so Lesnar winning pretty came as a huge surprise factor to me. And speaking of Undertaker, you gotta love his segment with Maven during that match where Maven thinks he's eliminated Undertaker for the second year in a row, only to have Undertaker get his revenge and eliminate him. Hilarious moment is hilarious, and it was really well done!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Smiitty or anyone else. I definitely cosign that RVD/Holly ECW match. That was a kick ass match. I enjoy legitimacy, stiffness, and 2 guys knocking each other senseless. That was that match in a nutshell. I cringed 4-5 times at some of the stuff they did to each other. The only problem I see is that Holly should have been the heel in this match, but after the gash, it turns into a face vs face match. I'm sure Holly wasn't even selling that much, just all the faces he would make whenever he landed on his back after the gash opened up just got him a ton of sympathy. I can honestly say I haven't seen a better Holly match, and it's probably in the top 20 for RVD as well. I think ***3/4-**** is about right. Definitely worth the 17 or so minutes to watch. Outside of the apron suplex through a table that opens up the gash, the nastiest part of the match is Holly countering a 5 star frog splash by throwing a chair into RVD's face while he's flying though the air. There is just no way to protect a guy and do that move realistically, so as a result RVD just eats a face full of steel chair :mark:
> 
> Thanks again Smitty/Nostalgia for the link.


Gonna have to check this out soon, I like RVD enough but the thought of him having a GREAT match with Bob Holly didn't cross my mind, but then again, I found a Orton/Hurricane match that was awesome so you never know in this business I guess


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RVD also had an equally great match with Test around that time. Go check that out too. But don't check out the RVD/Sabu Ladder Match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Any news on that Memphis DVD?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What the hell is going on? I don't think it's a fluke anymore. Randy Orton is regularly cutting good promos :rko2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Still wish we got Flair/Orton for the title and Flair's career at WM 24. Although HBK/Flair is one of my favorite matches of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Hey Cody here's that superstars link ya wanted http://watchwrestling.tv/watch-wwe-superstars-1314/
> 
> Cactus tell me how that Bob Holly match is, really dont like his matches usually


Cheers lad. But I got the full show last night so I'm probably going to watch it right now.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

1988 Royal Rumble 



*Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs. "Ravishing" Rick Rude*

This was a very strange babyface performance from Steamboat early on. He controlled a lot of the match and really worked the arm. He would hit one of his beautiful arm drags and hold and arm bar for a pretty long time. For the first 7 or 8 minutes you could have convinced me that Rude was the face. Rude sold the arm for a little while but soon after he took control of the match his arm wasn't really a factor at all. Of course once Rude took control we saw some nice power moves and good selling by Steamboat. HOLY SHIT this is the match where Steamboat forgets how to count!!! I've seen videos but seeing it in the context of the match was pretty hilarious. At least after the botch we saw a great comeback from Steamboat. Now I'm far from an expert on his work but the guy really knows how to work as a babyface when he's making a comeback. It was a gradual process that really sucks you in. He would show a sign of life while Rude was in control and would get more and more offense in until you realized that not o only was Steamboat back in the match but he was about to win the match. I won't call this a classic but it was really good. I just wish that there wasn't that hilarious botch by Steamboat and that the ending didn't totally suck. 
****1/4* 


_2-Out-Of 3 Falls for the Women's Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Glamour Girls(c) w/Jimmy Hart vs. The Jumping Bomb Angels*

I really underestimated the Glamour Girls as they looked like 2 middle aged women. It turns out that they can actually wrestle. Now the match wasn't amazing or anything but it was a good 10-15 minutes and I enjoyed it. They did a lot of cool moves and they fit it into the context of an inteligent tag match. There were a few spots that didn't look so great but a lot also looked good. Nobody in the match looked better then the Divas we see today but the match was so much better then most divas matches. I think AJ might have a match or two that I liked more then this but this was comfortably better then just about anything I see women do in the WWE. The Bomb Angels made some fantastic babyfaces and it made for a fun match.
***1/2*


*20-Man Royal Rumble Match*

This was pretty boring in all honesty. It's interesting to see how much the match has changed over the years but once you realize that this is just a pointless battle royal you don't really need to see any more. What also annoyed me was that this never felt like a match that any man for himself. The announcers were blatantly talking about how the heels were going to work together and the faces would also work together. I'm sure there were a few interactions between faces but if there were I didn't notice any that were significant. Thankfully there were only 20 people in the match was it was watchable, but barely. Also the eliminations all looked really bad. It felt like half of the eliminations featured someone going over the top rope landing on the ring apron, and then hopping onto the floor. I would even say that the two best over the top rope spots of the night DIDN'T happen during the Rumble. Overall, this is a mid-card battle royal from the late 80s and nothing more.
***

_2-Out-Of-3 Falls_ 
*The Islanders vs. The Young Stallions*

Well this wasn't very good. Quite a few bothces and it was almost an extended squash. The Stallions didn't get in any offense as The Islanders were always in control of the match. Roma actually did a fantastic job selling a leg injury, like an amazing job at it. The match is just one control segment by the Islanders after another. I have no idea why this ended up being the main event. 
**1/2 *​

I really don't know why I watched this. I wasn't expecting much but this was really bad. The opener was good but I wish I had just stopped after that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> If C2D reads this, my fellow Benoit obsessed member, he has a whole bunch of stuff on his friendship with Eddie and Benoit and the time they spent riding together. He corroborates what you said about Eddie, that Vince ran his ass into the ground even though Eddie was begging for time off. No wonder they take such good care of Vickie, not that she isn't a good heater in he own right.


Thanks for the heads-up, but I already read the Benoit chapter. Interesting to see it from Bob's perspective since he was this close to be in their home on that fateful day.

And true on the Eddie part. Jericho slightly hinted at it in his Undisputed book when he talks about his last time meeting Eddie backstage at SummerSlam. Eddie said he wishes he had the option to take a break from wrestling but he couldn't. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> What the hell is going on? I don't think it's a fluke anymore. Randy Orton is regularly cutting good promos


It's no fluke! rton2

I find it funny when his voice sounds the way it did tonight, but other than accidentally saying "ring" before correcting himself, he did a good job. In fact, he sounded better than one of the GOATs. :flair3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't care how random it was, but Punk running out there with the Outlaws made me :mark: so hard. God almighty.

Piper vs Ambrose on the mic :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was such a disappointing Lesnar segment. Hopefully unk8 can salvage this show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God damn. Now that's how you wrestle a match where every move mattered. William Regal must be smiling backstage.

EDIT: :mark:


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

That was such a FUN main event segment

***** for JAKE THE SNAKE


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk vs Reigns

***1/4


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Rhodes/Real Americans - ***1/4
Punk/Reigns - ***

If only the Wyatt Family/Usos and Mysterio match got more time, it would've been really good since I feel that the match ended just as it started to pick up. Punk/Reigns started off slow but picked up towards the end. Reign's spear is SO SICK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wasn't feeling the Reigns/Punk match. Thought it was pretty boring until the last two minutes but Reigns winning made up for all of that.

And to get JAKE THE SNAKE to end it all... :mark:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

First thing to take away from Punk V Reigns is...


Reigns aint ready.

He was gassed very shortly and some of his punches looked like shit.

But Punk knows how to plot a match so it ended up being pretty good. But yeah, its best they slow a little on the Reigns train as he will get exposed in singles matches in a very short time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Reigns was awful outside of a couple sweet near-falls and a badass spear to end the match, although Reigns was pretty terrible in control. This was Reigns chance to really prove himself, and he blew chunks, against CM Punk of all people. And while Punk's heart might not be in it anymore, he's still managed to provide decent matches at the very least. That was probably his worst match in a long time. Heck, might honestly be Punk's worst lengthy match since his main event run started in 2011 (then again, he did have a few stinkers with Axel and Ryback recently, so maybe I'm exaggerating a bit). Damn though, I wasn't expecting it to be amazing, but I was hoping it'd be at least good.

Punk/Reigns- 1/2* for the cool last minute or two.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Punk vs Reigns **3/4
Rhodes vs Real Americans ***1/2 ( if they continue stealing the show every week they'll be moving up my goat tag team list)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Punk/Reigns. Didn't think it was anything incredible but the finishing stretch was pretty good, imo. Thought Reigns looked decent although he's definitely not as good as Rollins or Ambrose on his own.

Really liked Ambrose in the Piper's Pit segment. Also, holy fuck was so glad to see Jake The Snake, who seems to be doing so well under DDP. Feel good moment for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good main event. Shield on Piper's Pit was obviously worth seeing. That's all there is to talk about. And it's all in the same circle. Gosh, what a terribad night. Had to struggle to finish. WWE is no different than TNA for me these days. Everything is so linear & flimsy. Not much to entice me to care.

Just sign Brock vs Show already so I can actually begin to care come Royal Rumble.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's Taboo Tuesday 04 time for me (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is it just me who is a tad miffed we are getting Brock and............Big Show? I mean yeah id watch Brock with anyone, but FFS The Big Show.

Just no IMO.

But hey, we get Brock so...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, fuck Brock/Show. What a waste of a Brock match, even though they do have good chemistry.

Gotta say, I'm surprised people in this thread liked Punk/Reigns. Not that it's wrong or anything, but I was actually looking forward to being on the same page with you guys in shitting all over a match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry is injured. Next best thing: Big Show.

Obviously.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

they probably want to protect Langston so they decided to have him destroy Ryback at the RR instead of lose to Brock

And Big Show/Mark Henry are vets that can job to Brock, not like it matters anyways.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Prime Evil said:


> Henry is injured. Next best thing: Big Show.
> 
> Obviously.


Jesus we have a thin roster ATM.

Personally, even if it would make ZERO sense, I'd rather see Punk in a rematch. Or better yet. SHEAMUS. He's gotta be healthy by now, right? Losing his first match back isn't ideal, obviously, but jobbing to Lesnar is not like jobbing to anyone else. It's sort of expected when you go up against a BEAST.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> Henry is injured. Next best thing: Big Show.
> 
> Obviously.


I thought it was bad, but.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Meh not interested at all in Show/Brock.. Would rather see Thrice in a lifetime
Langston vs Him would have been much more refreshing considering Big E actually threatened Lesnar on SD


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Brock and big show have had some :mark: matches so I'm ok with this TBH

Glad it's not big e because if anyone can get a bad match out of bork it's fucking big e

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Brock and big show have had some :mark: matches so I'm ok with this TBH
> 
> Glad it's not big e because if anyone can get a bad match out of bork it's fucking big e
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Yea, but can you honestly see them topping the Stretcher Match? I can't. Meh, maybe Show will surprise us all, the guy CAN work when he's with a proper opponent. I just would much rather see SHEAMUS get the spot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Brock and big show have had some :mark: matches so I'm ok with this TBH
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


They did. When Brock was full time. He is now a very special attraction, and in a 'filler feud' IMO. Yeah to build momentum to Mania or whatever, fuck knows,

Ill enjoy the match because it's Brock, but is this the best they can do right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I am disappointed in Show being Brock's Rumble opponent and wish it had been Sheamus as a surprise instead. But whatever, just give me Brock vs Orton at EC and I'm happy!


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Content and match listing for WWE: The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2013

DISC 1
First RAW of the Year

Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match for the WWE Championship
CM Punk vs. Ryback
Raw • January 7, 2013

Last Man Standing Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio
Smackdown • January 11, 2013

Setting the Stage

The Rock & CM Punk’s Verbal Battle
Smackdown • January 25, 2013

Paul Heyman & Mr. McMahon Confrontation
Raw • January 28, 2013

One for the Ages

Winner faces The Rock for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 29
John Cena vs. CM Punk
Raw • February 25, 2013

The Rock & John Cena – Point/Counter-Point
Raw • March 4, 2013


DISC 2
WrestleMania Season

CM Punk Disrespects The Memory of Paul Bearer
Raw • April 1, 2013

Handicap Match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger & Zeb Colter
Raw • April 8, 2013

Kofi Kingston vs. Fandango
Raw • April 8, 2013

Sheamus & Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry & Big Show
Smackdown • April 19, 2013

Setting the World on Fire

Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs. The Shield
Raw • April 22, 2013

Brock Lesnar Destroys Triple H’s Office
Raw • May 6, 2013

Curtis Axel vs. Chris Jericho
Smackdown • June 7, 2013

Foul Play Was Afoot

Mark Henry’s Retirement Speech
Raw • June 17, 2013

Street Fight
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton
Raw • June 24, 2013


DISC 3
A Piñata and A Mariachi Band

Alberto Del Rio’s Championship Fiesta
Smackdown • June 28, 2013

AJ and Kaitlin’s Contract Signing
Smackdown • July 12, 2013

The Wyatt Family Makes a Statement
RAW • July 15, 2013

Damien Sandow Searches for his Briefcase
Smackdown • July 26, 2013

Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton
Smackdown • August 9, 2013

Two Fan Favorites Face-to-Face

Miz TV with John Cena & Daniel Bryan
RAW • August 12, 2013

Santino Marella vs. Antonio Cesaro
RAW • September 9, 2013

Big Show faces Off with the Shield
Smackdown • September 13, 2013

Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, & Goldust vs. The Shield
RAW • October 7, 2013

No Disqualification Match for the World Tag Team Championship
The Shield vs. Cody Rhodes & Goldust
RAW • October 14, 2013

John Cena, Cody Rhodes, & Goldust vs. Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro, & Jack Swagger
Smackdown • November 1, 2013

3-on-2 Handicap Match
CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs. The Shield
RAW • November 11, 2013

Championship Ascension Ceremony
RAW • December 9, 2013

Our Favorite Moments

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-best-raw-smackdown-2013-dvd/57592/


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ Set doesn't look all that bad tbh.

2013 had some pretty great segments and moments.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm hoping that the Blu ray might have zayn/Cesaro :mark:

As for Brock, yeah I'd prefer others, this'll surprise folks I think


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Don't want Brock/Henry or Brock/Show at all tbh. I'd much rather have him in the Rumble match itself. Since Batista's in it though and they seem to be telling us Brock is getting a title shot after the Rumble, perhaps :brock vs. :batista4 will be our title match and main event at the big daddy show this year.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't see why people are complaining about Show, I mean do you have any better idea's considering the point of this match is for Brock to destroy his opponent to look strong for his championship match in February and onto WrestleMania. 

Henry was probably first choice but is likely hurt (thus the broken arm to right him off TV)

Who else would you want Lesnar to face with the only intention being his opponent is getting squashed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Don't want Brock/Henry or Brock/Show at all tbh. I'd much rather have him in the Rumble match itself. Since Batista's in it though and they seem to be telling us Brock is getting a title shot after the Rumble, perhaps :brock vs. :batista4 will be our title match and main event at the big daddy show this year.


Brock/Batista for the title
Taker/Cena for the streak
Punk w/Vince vs. HHH for control
Bryan/Bray Wyatt to finish their feud

I'd be 99% happy with that card.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As long as Brock is 100% having a title shot, at EC. Then fair enough.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Don't want Brock/Henry or Brock/Show at all tbh. I'd much rather have him in the Rumble match itself. Since Batista's in it though and they seem to be telling us Brock is getting a title shot after the Rumble, perhaps :brock vs. :batista4 will be our title match and main event at the big daddy show this year.


Well yeah instead of having him wrestle in a singles they should have just utilized Brock in the Rumble match, I mean him eliminating 6-8 guys in BEAST MODE before Big Show then eliminates him (then you can do a segment during the Rumble where Brock fucks him up somewhere else) all whilst sticking to the gameplan of giving him a title shot in February, I mean he is a heel right? Heel gets rewarded even though he didn't win but impressed :HHH2 who feels its Best for Business for him to be No 1 Contender anyway for February.

I mean if you didn't want him to interact with certain people then he could have been the attraction early on for that match, (entry 5-10) and eliminated before we get to 25-30 entrants. 

Cena/Taker
Brock/Batista
Punk/HHH
Bryan/Wyatt

Where does that leave :rko2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I had a blast watching Old School Raw. FLAIR for starters, with Orton cutting a decent promo for a change. PIPER'S PIT WITH THE SHIELD made me :mark:. New Age Outlaws coming out with Punk? :mark:. I'd mark for a 6 man at the RR. I enjoyed the main event. Reigns definitely could have done better in control, but I didn't think he was bad. They went with the Punk has injured ribs story for the match, so Reigns was methodical at times, and I thought he did ok. Finishing stretch was a whole ton of fun, and JAKE FUCKING ROBERTS coming out was :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:. Highlight of 2014. And I'm not sure it can be topped . :lmao at Ambrose with the biggest smile on his face when Jake puts the Snake on him. What a night for him. Vs Piper on the Mic and then getting SNAKED by Jake Roberts. I'd be fucking giddy too. Goldust & Cody Vs Real Americans was yet another good match involving DUSTIN THE GREAT. Shame no AJ on the show though, instead some shitty divas tag with a bunch of fucking shitty divas. I was hoping for an AJ/Lita confrontation, which would have been awesome considering all the little backstory and shit between them (AJ meeting Lita as a kid, Lita dating Punk and now AJ dating Punk). Ah well. THE WORM~!

Edit: And BROCK LESNAR! Disappointed that HENRY isn't the one to wrestle him, but I'm not too bothered by Show being his opponent. They had GREAT chemistry back in the day and I did post the other day that I'd be fine with a Show/Lesnar match. I'd MUCH prefer something fresh, and like someone else said, Sheamus would have been cool if they had him return now or something, but meh, I'll be fine with Show. Should make for an interesting match still. Better than Big E Langston ffs.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I personally just want to see Brock in the Rumble but I'm not bothered by a match with Show if it happens. Brock will destroy whoever he faces in a singles match because he's obviously headed for the title. I just would have preferred to have him in the Rumble itself.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hopefully the Rumble match for Brock vs Show is just to get another W in Brock's W/L record. So he goes 4-2, then loses to Orton in his title match at EC unclean and that way he still has a 4-3 record when he goes on to face Taker at WM.

And the title match is obviously... rton2 vs :batista4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Bellas vs. Aksana and Fox actually wasn't that bad despite the awkward finish, and even then the finish made a lot of sense, it just could have been worked a little better. For a divas tag match (especially when all four aren't know for their in-ring abilities) it surprised the hell out of me. The heels worked well on Nikki's leg, playing on the injury she suffered earlier this year, and they also played on the Bryan/Wyatt storyline with Brie being pinned due to a mistake made by her because her head is elsewhere (her fiance being Bray's top bitch). Brie was good with the hot tag and was actually doing her best to rile up the dead crowd and she almost accomplished it. Slowly but surely the crowd got more and more in to it. Only thing that pissed me off though is her screaming when on the attack ala. Bryan or Kidd or Trent etc. Other than that, I have no qualms whatosever with the match. I'm somewhat impressed, tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just noticed the listings for the Best of Raw & SD set. Well... they fucked up. A couple of matches that absolutely needed to be on there, so yey... but overall they missed out a TON of good shit and put a TON of shit on instead. And fuck, some of those segments. Urgh. One of the best TV years for matches in YEARS and they kill the set DEAD. Fucks sake, WWE. Someone look up the meaning of "best" and have another crack at it you useless cunts.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Tbh, if Brock is even going to face Orton for the title, he should win it. Whether Batista or Punk wins the Rumble, either of them facing Brock is a lot more appealing than facing Orton. I'm not sure there's any scenario for the Mania title scene where I'd rather see Orton as champ over Brock. Have Brock beat Show at RR, beat Orton for the title at EC, lose to Batista at Mania, beat Cena or Sheamus at Summerslam, beat someone at RR next year and then lose to Taker or Punk at WM31. That's my ideal path for Brock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lose to PUNK @ WM31? Talk about a complete waste.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Lose to PUNK @ WM31? Talk about a complete waste.


Sure. In fact you know what, fuck what I said. Brock destroys Orton at EC, Punk beats Brock at WM30 for the title, and then Orton becomes Punk's whipping boy for the pay per views between WM30 and Summerslam. Would be amazing!

Edit: Oh, and after that, Orton begins putting over/jobbing to the, at that point, recently turned #GoodNewsBarrett before turning face again to look somewhat credible, and then jobbing to Sandow. Man, Id actually be looking forward to something Orton is in for once!


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

OK so I don't really have any faith in Bryan's current direction at all. Motherfuckers.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I finished Fully Loaded 1998 last night & holy crap that Rock/HHH match is so BORING! they wrestle for 30 minutes and literally nothing happens.

But they did throw a lot of punches, clotheslines & threw each other in to the guardrail about a million times, that match was truly atrocious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some Attitude Era brawls are so boring. Nothing but punches non-stop.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> ...and then Orton becomes Punk's whipping boy for the pay per views between WM30 and Summerslam. Would be amazing!


Unfortunately for you, Punk will likely be resting up at home during that time. unk3


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lol Punk. Needs more MUSCLES. Then he'll be in with a shot of beating BORK. Just ask these guys. 

:cena4 :trips2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Punk is so fucking useless as a babyface. The pizza guy look doesn't help either. In fact, Punk and Orton are the two guys in whose matches I can't get into simply based on their physiques. They look so awkward. I'd rather watch Yokozuna's two star wonders. At least he was fat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some reason i feel like watching Brock/Show @ Judgment Day :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Chismo said:


> Punk is so fucking useless as a babyface. The pizza guy look doesn't help either. In fact, Punk and Orton are the two guys in whose matches I can't get into simply based on their physiques. They look so awkward. I'd rather watch Yokozuna's two star wonders. At least he was fat.


I was only joking with my post but this really made me laugh. :lol Punk's physique is much better suited to being a babyface though. Let's face it, when he's a heel and tells people he's going to kick their ass while trying to act like a tough guy, it's horribly funny. NEEDS MORE MUSCLES TBH.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> I was only joking with my post but this really made me laugh. :lol Punk's physique is much better suited to being a babyface though. Let's face it, when he's a heel and tells people he's going to kick their ass while trying to act like a tough guy, it's horribly funny. NEEDS MORE MUSCLES TBH.


But why does he have to be a badass heel? Makes no sense. I wonder how other wrestlers don't burst into laughs when they hear Punk's tough heel threats. He's suited to be a lifetime cunning, cheating heel.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Chismo said:


> But why does he have to be a badass heel? Makes no sense. I wonder how other wrestlers don't burst into laughs when they hear Punk's tough heel threats. He's suited to be a lifetime cunning, cheating heel.


This is why i'm still disappointed that Punk/Heyman had their break up. We got a fantastic Lesnar/Punk match out of it but Heyman + scumbag Punk = GOLD.

Punk plays the smarmy heel so well and having Heyman alongside him was just the best. The two scumbag heels in the WWE. I miss it.

Now Punk "WANTS TO FIGHT" every fucking week, it's getting old.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Some reason i feel like watching Brock/Show @ Judgment Day :side:


Who would have thought they would meet again 11 years later.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Those WWE fucks have edited the promo for the stretcher match in Brock's DVD so Benoit's name on the stretcher is blurred out.


Might as well watch the Show/BROCK Rumble match as they're about to meet again and then go through Brock/Taker from Unforgiven since it's been so long. Then find the time for some ANIMAL action. :batista3


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sono Shion said:


> Who would have thought they would meet again 11 years later.


:vince5


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well it's been a long time since we've discussed Punk's physique....

Anyway, are we really gonna get Brock/Show? Is Henry hurt or something?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

OK so I just finished Old School Raw, some thoughts

* NAITCH :mark: stylin and proflin, coolest man in the world not named Shawn Michaels
* Good Orton promo tbh, Cena fucked up the segment though
* I actually think its good Bryan does this stuff now, if vs. HHH at mania is still the goal, he was getting stale and was just there since HIAC

* ARN :mark:

* I'm not a mark for them AT ALL so I could care less , but barrett and sandow current positions in the company :banderas, damn :lol


I also say the DVD listing of the best of raw and sd, horrid, it actually starts off very well from the content from jan until right after mania and then it just sucks, wwe ACTUALLY found a way to fuck it up :ti


Muderface that rep :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Those WWE fucks have edited the promo for the stretcher match in Brock's DVD so Benoit's name on the stretcher is blurred out.


They left the match off the Collectors Edition  Luckily i have the event on DVD. Just watching the pre-match build up now, and lol at Show bouncing Rey off the posts whilst he's on the stretcher.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> * I'm not a mark for them AT ALL so I could care less , but barrett and sandow current positions in the company :banderas, damn :lol


The position of :ziggler2 in the company is even more :lol worthy! 



Clint Eastwood said:


> They left the match off the Collectors Edition  Luckily i have the event on DVD. Just watching the pre-match build up now, and lol at Show bouncing Rey off the posts whilst he's on the stretcher.


No doubt for the same reason. Hopefully his inclusion in the WWE Network is gonna be a permanent move in the right direction.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> The position of :ziggler2 in the company is even more :lol worthy!
> .


I agree laughable in a bad way


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still love this match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Most underrated Bork match ever, IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

thoughts on this? Haven't seen it but Benoit and taker together :mark:






Also, yes BORK/Show JD 03 is probably the GOAT big show match, theirs probably an obvious one I'm missing though. Also check out Brock/Show SVS 02 if you haven't seen it, so much fun for a short match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't set yourself up for disappointment. Benoit and Taker don't even touch each other.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ArnoldTricky said:


> Content and match listing for WWE: The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2013
> 
> DISC 1
> First RAW of the Year
> ...


:lmao

After all that - it looks AWFUL. Why are there so many segments? Santino Marella & Kofi Kingston return matches? Punk & Danielson vs The Shield from a recent RAW is the Danielson vs Shield match to make it over ALL the others?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just rewatched WM 28 earlier: 

Sheamus/Bryan: DUD 
Kane/Orton: ***1/4
Rhodes/Show: **1/2
Team Johnny/Team teddy: **1/4
HHH/Taker: ***3/4
Jericho/Punk: ****1/4
Rock/Cena: ***1/2 (underrated)

A shame not seeing Sheamus/Bryan go at least 10 minutes. Would have been a great opener. Kane/Orton was solid, their extreme rules match was better, HHH/Taker is good, but feel it's their most overrated matches. A big LOL at people believing the dx finisher would end the streak. Jericho/Punk was great, my favorite match the two have had IMO. Cena/Rock was actually good, I don't understand the hate it gets. WAY better then their WM 29 match. The rest was just meh, but overall a very solid mania. 

One of the better WM I've seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> thoughts on this? Haven't seen it but Benoit and taker together :mark:


Match is pretty poor, don't get excited. Goes on far too long and anyone worth a damn is eliminated early if I remember right. Christian I think lasts a while but doesn't do much of anything.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There is literally only 5 match I would watch on there


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Prime Evil said:


> :lmao
> 
> After all that - it looks AWFUL. Why are there so many segments? Santino Marella & Kofi Kingston return matches? Punk & Danielson vs The Shield from a recent RAW is the Danielson vs Shield match to make it over ALL the others?


Preach, brother.

Danielson vs Cesaro

And

Danielson vs Rollins

Absolutely HAD to be on this set. You can also throw Goldust return match with Orton as absolute musts. I have no idea how they can throw such garbage on a set and call it "best of 2013". This isn't even personal opinion, just facts. If I was making the set, 90% of the matches would involve Danielson, The Shield, Cesaro. Or Rhodes Bros. Those 4 OWNED television this year. Owned it. In fact that's what the 2013 set should have been called, fuck the bullshit "WWE Raw and Smackdown: The Best of Daniel Bryan, Antonio Cesaro, The Shield, and The Rhodes Bros 2013"

Fuck this. I'm gonna go watch Finlay vs Mysterio from Smackdown 2006. Just found it on YouTube and it sounds smashing.

Here's a link for any interested parties:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sFwL4opJgwE


P.s. Is swagger vs Christian from Judgement Day any good? Totally forgot about that one, I know their TV match is otherworldly and easily the best of the bunch, but this 15 minute JD match completely eludes me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They (Rey & Finlay) had a better match on SD in 07 . 06 is still fucking great though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLux brother center your sig

yea its a injustice,but its the wwe what your expect, I didnt notice at first glance, but there is a awful amount of just segments on there


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> They (Rey & Finlay) had a better match on SD in 07 . 06 is still fucking great though.


There is MORE Rey and Finlay I haven't seen????

You're so hot right now 

This match is everything I was hoping for. Aside from the Hornswoggle shens. I swear I don't thing I'll ever forgive Vincent Kennedy McMahon for taking one of the most badass wrestlers of all time and sticking him with a midget leprechaun comedy gimmick :vince3

Edit-Cal which is better No Mercy 2007 or the Smackdown match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ya know I just watched it, and I think I will official just put it uner wwe classic I just cant get into and like. I will never like the taker/angle series from 2006. Every time I watch it I just end with a meh feeling, I dont like the arm work or the leg work in each of them and they just drag a ton for me. I guess this is the beauty of differing opinions


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD match is their best match together . Date is 09/11/2007 (9th Nov).

I didn't mind Finlay being teamed with Hornswoggle originally. Back when he was some crazy lunatic under the ring ready to bite someone it was pretty awesome. Then they turned face and it all went to hell .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't seen the 07 stuff but my favorite Mysterio vs Finlay match from 2006 is the one they have before SummerSlam 2006, around July time I think. Rey wears red on that one and his "head is not in the game" because of the Chavo shit.

Finished watching BROCK vs UNDERTAKER from Unforgiven. Not nearly as good as the cell match but still very good in its own way. Surprised a DQ closed the show, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Haven't seen the 07 stuff but my favorite Mysterio vs Finlay match from 2006 is the one they have before SummerSlam 2006, around July time I think. Rey wears red on that one and his "head is not in the game" because of the Chavo shit.
> 
> Finished watching BROCK vs UNDERTAKER from Unforgiven. Not nearly as good as the cell match but still very good in its own way. Surprised a DQ closed the show, though.


I've always like the parallels of the HBK Taker feud from 97 and Brock/Taker from 2002. The HBK/Taker match at Ground Zero is early similar to the Vengeance match, and then they go on and have all time classics the next month. Then they have a match some time later that can't possibly live up to the Cell match with the Casket and Chain matches respectively. Eerily similar.


Skins-are you saying you can't get into Rey/Finlay or where you talking about some other matches? The one "certified classic" that everyone goes ape over that I can't get into at all is the HBK/Jericho ladder match at No Mercy. I guess I understand why some love it, and I appreciate it's stiffness, but I get the same "meh" feeling after watching it. You know I appreciate your boy HBK but he just was not good in that match in my mind. Jericho's performance kept it from being a disaster, atleast for me


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So just unwrapped the Foley set

vs Vader is the first match :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have no faith in anything "Best of" released by WWE any more. At this point, a fan pack on XWT is put together better than the WWE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The undertaker vs. kurt angle series from 2006, I just cant get into those matches at all, just drag for me and I dont enjoy how there are structured w/ the leg work on taker in the nwo match and the arm work in the sd one. I still love their sd 2003 match though

Yea I actually agree w/ you man, that hbk/y2j ladder match may be the only big time :hbk1 match beside maybe some hhh matches I DONT like, dont get the love for that either


:lol that would actually be a fresh topic up here or one we havent discussed in a while: What are classic and highly praised matches you just couldnt enjoy or get the hype ?

I have few more besides the ones mentioned above


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Classics I don't get or enjoy? Oh boy, where do I start? I'll get the most controversial one out of the way first, I think.

The majority of HBK's 02-10 run. There's odd matches here and there that I really do like (vs. Shelton, vs. Jericho Raw 03, vs. Vince WM 22, vs. Cena in London, vs. Flair WM 24, SVS 09 three way) but I really do find him overrated don't see the appeal in a lot of his classics. I dislike all of the 08 Jericho series for starters. I enjoy both Taker matches, but find them overrated and nowhere near GOAT match status, IMO. Apart from the matches I listed and a few other matches here and there, I generally dislike HBk's work. Hey Skins 

However, pre-02 HBK is amazing. Something happened during his time off. Musta' been the water down in San Antonio.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HBK/Angle WM 21, really dont like it too much, Vengeance rematch is better but not GREAT


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@FLUX ^^ Although this hurts my heart dearly :lmao thanks for sharing. I actually agree w/ you as I was kinda alluding to it earlier w/cjack, not high on the hbk/y2j series from 2008 besides the TGAB match and the feud doesnt stick out. Maybe its one of those had to witness it during the time it was going on (was on hiatus from wwe viewing then)

I guess I will share mine, ones that come to mind:

HHH/Y2j FL 00
hbk/y2j series from 2008
punk/y2j series from 2012
bret/scsa svs 96- Ive tried to watch this 6x never can sit through
taker/angle series from 2006
hbk/angle wm 21

I guess I'm a big Jerchioholic ehh ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HBK/Angle WM21 is a match I never got the love for. Match was a complete mess last time I saw it. Still enjoyable but an absolute mess. I'll have to watch again and see if my opinion changes. I've seen ****+ given to this thing and I'd personally go nowhere near that. I'll definitely have to rewatch but for now, yeah, HBK/Angle is my pick for a so called classic match that never clicked with me.

Edit - :lol I posted this thinking I was all alone only to find 2 people posting the same above me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Classics I didn't enjoy that much:

Rock vs. HHH Ladder Match:
I like this, but most of the match was just tame. The story of HHH's knee went on and off, and the stuff involving Chyna was so bad. The ending sequence was also messed up horribly and these two took way too damn long to climb up the ladder to the point where it was an insult rather than good storytelling.

Michaels vs. Angle Vengeance 2005:
Another alright match that I really don't think should be considered a classic. It wasn't just the bad ending; the match just went on for too long for no goddamn reason.

Warrior vs. Savage WM VII:
Warrior was a piece of shit in this. I give Savage all the credit for carrying another piece of crap to a decent Mania match, but Warrior just infuriated me here. I still hate that five elbow drop spot. I think people just like this match because of the post-match stuff. The ending of the match was also anti-climatic.

Hogan vs. Flair Halloween Havoc 1994:
How is this not a universal DUD? Hogan ruined everything! This was a bad comedy performance, not a heated cage match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What do you think of the Y2J/Rey 09 series, SKINS?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> What do you think of the Y2J/Rey 09 series, SKINS?


Umm I had to rewatch it, I only vividly remember the bash and the sd beat the clock match. I really enjoyed the beat the clock. Its interesting about the bash, I use to LOVE it like ****3/4 worthy and that it was right under hbk/taker as 2nd MOTY. Through the years Ive lowered my stance on it, good but its just sometimes feels choreographed or just there the motions in some periods of it. I still think its really good, I'd prob give it around ***3/4-4 mark now


fyi I'm trying to beat Cody in the post count to become KING of this thread


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH vs Undertaker from WM27 and a large amount of the Punk/Cena series are matches that most like but I don't really think that highly of. Everyone in here shits on it, but you can add HBK vs Bret ironman match too since there are still people who think it's a classic.

On another note, finished watching Orton vs Undertaker from SummerSlam. Match is still glorious and Orton working on the leg is just awesome. Also noticed that somehow, he looks smaller here compared to most of 2004-2006 for some reason.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> HHH vs Undertaker from WM27 and a large amount of the Punk/Cena series are matches that most like but I don't really think that highly of. Everyone in here shits on it, but you can add HBK vs Bret ironman match too since there are still people who think it's a classic.
> 
> On another note, finished watching Orton vs Undertaker from SummerSlam. Match is still glorious and Orton working on the leg is just awesome. *Also noticed that somehow, he looks smaller here compared to most of 2004-2006 for some reason*.


Orton was coming off the juice in 2005 until Vince, on Raw, cut a promo on him on how he shrunk and his neck looked like a "stack of dimes".

So Vince pressured him to go back on the juice, which he did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Preach, brother.
> 
> Danielson vs Cesaro
> 
> ...


Disc one having a large majority of Cena & Rock garbage. :ti

Their Judgment Day is watchable, albeit average. Their weakest match, but not bad. Going from what they gave you in Feb & Backlash, it's a drop down.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Orton was coming off the juice in 2005 until Vince, on Raw, cut a promo on him on how he shrunk and his neck looked like a "stack of dimes".
> 
> So Vince pressured him to go back on the juice, which he did.


I remember that, it was weeks before the draft and Orton was injured, but suddenly he turned up with a near bald haircut and looked smaller then Vince interrupted him and made fun of his new look. By the end of the year, he started looking more like he did back in Evolution. I guess they had to change their policy after Eddie's death.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> Umm I had to rewatch it, I only vividly remember the bash and the sd beat the clock match. I really enjoyed the beat the clock. Its interesting about the bash, I use to LOVE it like ****3/4 worthy and that it was right under hbk/taker as 2nd MOTY. Through the years Ive lowered my stance on it, good but its just sometimes feels choreographed or just there the motions in some periods of it. I still think its really good, I'd prob give it around ***3/4-4 mark now
> 
> 
> fyi I'm trying to beat Cody in the post count to become KING of this thread


Quality > quantity, lad. :hayley1


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I remember that, it was weeks before the draft and Orton was injured, but suddenly he turned up with a near bald haircut and looked smaller then Vince interrupted him and made fun of his new look. By the end of the year, he started looking more like he did back in Evolution. I guess they had to change their policy after Eddie's death.


HHH pretty much did the same to Chris Masters in 2006 with the whole "lost 30 pounds" promo. Which was worse as that was after Eddie's death.

WWE motto back in the day "fuck your heart failure, get big"


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Cody just get a new sig?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do love Great Muta.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I keep refreshing the page until Devitt's one pops out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Apparently most don't read comics b/c him being Carnage was lost on a lot of folk. _(so it seems...)_


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Watching Backlash 09, great show so far but the finish to the Matt vs Jeff I Quit was horrible.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Holy shit that Prince Devitt entrance is incredible.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

How was WK8? I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrific. Very much worth the watch. Unanimous you're bound to love at least one match on it. I say that for any fan, that is.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just started DL WK 8, really gonna try to keep up with some indy/japan stuff this year. BTW- how was the last PWG show? worth the download? I know HERO was in a match so that should be decent. 

was gonna start BB 04, but WK should only take like 15 min to DL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Idk. All Star Weekend isn't out. Dunno any results or matches b/c I'm still only on the tail end of PWG's Matt Rushmore. I hope it's good. PWG in 2013 was continuously up & down for me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow, didn't even realize that the show wasn't out yet :lol

I actually haven't seen any PWG 2013, really just started looking at the product about a month ago and have been watching other years for some reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PWG during 2009 - 2012 is their best streak. Not to say you can't find goodness throughout their entire span. Pick nearly anything from El Generico and you're golden. Then the Young Bucks picked up where he left off. Consistency is out-fucking-rageous.

Make sure you see the Sami Callihan matches from PWG 2013 vs Drake Younger & Adam Cole. :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

1989 Royal Rumble

_2-Out-Of-3 Falls:_
*Dino Bravo and The Rougeau Brothers vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan and The Hart Foundation*

Thankfully the guys that could work spent the majority of time in the ring. Bret Hart worked a fantastic face in peril segment. His selling was great and they really built up the hot tag. Dino Bravo was limited in his time in the ring but I think that made him better. He would come in, do a couple of power moves and then tag out quickly. In fact there were a lot of quick tags from the heel team throughout the match. The Rougeau Brothers were also really impressive as they kept their control segment interesting with some really good looking offense. The stipulation really had no impact on the match as one fall came during the heel's control segment and the other fall came right after a hot tag. I will say that it did improve the match a little bit because it allowed the heels to hit a finishing move and score a pin. There really isn't anything bad I an say about this match because the pacing was good and the match was smartly worked. When I watch wrestling from this time period this is the stuff that I want to see. 
****1/2 *


_Women's Championship Match:_
*Rocking Robin(c) vs. Judy Martin*

I'm sure which Hebner was the ref here but he was horrible. Slow counts every single fall except for the finish when he counted a lot faster. This match was rather slow and unexciting. About what you would expect from a WWE or WWF women's match. I'll say it was slighly better then what we normally see because they do a few mor cool moves but that's really it. The match is entirely forgettable. 
**1/4* 


*Harley Race vs. Haku*

This was kind of a strange match because of the storyline. Both guys were claiming to be king (of what I'm not sure) but both were heels in Heenan's stable. So there really wasn't a set face or a heel in the match and I think that's why the crowd never really got into it. The fans didn't want to cheer either guy since they wer eboth still with Heenan. While the crowd might not have been that into the match I still enjoyed it. Basically you have this two heavyweights slugging it out with Heenan at ringside being funny by rooting for both guys. It wasn't a great match but it was entertaining enough. 
***1/4*


*Royal Rumble Match*

This was an improvement over the first Rumble as soon as the match started because Demolition drew numbers 1 and 2. And they fought each other. After the previous Rumble featured almost no instances of faces or heels fighting each other this match had the tag champions fighting each other to start the match. I would go as far as to say that this is really the first Royal Rumble as it had real star power and the match as a whole advanced many different storylines. 

I won't call it great but it was pretty entertaining. My problem was that there was a lot of star power early on in the match and there wasn't much left towards the end. Many of the good workers were also in the match early. I don't like to say it but this went to shit after Hogan was eliminated. Until that point though this was a really fun match. The only thing that I really wanted to see but didn't happen was a brief Shawn Michael and Andre the Giant confrontation but we didn't get that at all. Still you could see how everything here built up to Wresltemania 5 which I thought was pretty cool. Had the last third of the match been anywhere close to as good as the first two thirds this would be pretty high on my list of favorite Rumbles. Instead it's much closer to the bottom then the top.
***3/4*​

Another rough shit. If you skip the 20 minute Roode/Warrior Pose-down (which I don't know why you wouldn't) this clocks in a little over 2 hours so it wasn't hard to sit through at least. The opener was really good and Rumble was solid and at least closer to the Rumbles that we see today.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Wow, didn't even realize that the show wasn't out yet :lol
> 
> I actually haven't seen any PWG 2013, really just started looking at the product about a month ago and have been watching other years for some reason.


Watch NJPW Day 4 & 9 of G1 Climax 23 if you haven't. 

Now back to WWE before we get reported.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No more other wrestling fun? Only WWE? Ah nuts..

WWE shouldn't have released talents like Vance Archer, David Hart Smith, or Luke Gallows.

8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Prime Evil said:


> No more other wrestling fun? Only WWE? Ah nuts..
> 
> WWE shouldn't have released talents like Vance Archer, David Hart Smith, or Luke Gallows.
> 
> 8*D


Or Shelton Benjamin 

just started the show


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Prime Evil said:


> Quality > quantity, lad. :hayley1


you tryna berry me brother, saying I dont post quality :sad:

you vanilla midgets and (movie geeks) w/ your other wrestling


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

No surprise but Lesnar/Show is now confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a little Brock/Batista staredown backstage, similar to Goldberg/Brock back at Survivor Series. Not sure if I really want that match though, at least not for Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Or Shelton Benjamin
> 
> just started the show


As a long term Shelton supporter his work at the end of WWE took a sufficient dip. He's back to regular form these days. Yay. 

Right on. (Y)



SKINS25 said:


> you tryna berry me brother, saying I dont post quality :sad:
> 
> you vanilla midgets and (movie geeks) w/ your other wrestling


:berried



Sono Shion said:


> No surprise but Lesnar/Show is now confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a little Brock/Batista staredown backstage, similar to Goldberg/Brock back at Survivor Series. Not sure if I really want that match though, at least not for Mania.


:hb @ at match I'll care to watch for Royal Rumble.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehh not to high on a brock/batista match either, although I wished it was henry/brock, I'm content w/ show/brock but I hope its doesnt narrow his match down to 3 now left


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even though these two have terrific chemistry, the backlash on it is hilarious. 

CAN'T SUPPORT ANYTHING BIG SHOW DOES.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Yes please.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I know it's soooooooooooo uncool to like the :rock2 in the IWC but I'm getting ready to pop in disc 2 of the newest Rock set. Cage match with Foley & Shamrock, I quit with Foley and Backlash with :austin2 (incredibly underrated match) coming up. 

:rock was entertaining as fuck in 1998 and 1999. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't mind Show vs. Lesnar, and I'm not exactly a fan of Big Show. If anything, BORK wrestling is just another reason to order the Rumble (which I was planning on anyways). Plus, Show and Lesnar have really good chemistry, as others have said. 

The match could be even better if Bork lets DAT SCREAM out. :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> Yes please.


Bright black heaven.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> I know it's soooooooooooo uncool to like the :rock2 in the IWC but I'm getting ready to pop in disc 2 of the newest Rock set. Cage match with Foley & Shamrock, I quit with Foley and Backlash with :austin2 (incredibly underrated match) coming up.
> 
> :rock was entertaining as fuck in 1998 and 1999. :mark:


His good stuff isn't worth disliking. He's just a complete obnoxious awful twonk these days. That's the problem.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not as bothered about Brock vs Show as others but I do think there would've been better options. A returning Sheamus challenging Brock at the Rumble would've been wonderful.

Oh well, just give me :brock vs rton2 and I'm the happiest guy alive!


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think Brock vs. Orton at EC with Brock as a tweener/face is a good bet unless Cena wins at Rumble (which I'm not sure is gonna happen because I have no idea what's going on with the title picture).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really enjoyed the opener of Royal Rumble 1989 as well. 

Best part of the PPV for me was DiBiase buying #30. Classic dick heel move! Kinda wish Ted had won! :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ted's laugh last night after being announced for the legends roll call =


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Prime Evil said:


> He's just a complete obnoxious awful twonk these days. That's the problem.


Agreed with this. Unless it's headlining Wrestlemania 32 against :hbk3 I'm not too excited to see him again. Maybe against :brock but we have seen that. The atmosphere at Cowboys Stadium for :rock and :hbk would be epic.....and I have family 10 minutes from there so I would probably go! :mark:


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Watch this forum crashing when Show's eating that Belly2Belly overhead.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No more Rock is the only thing I'm going to hope for.

Brock is ten times more insane on this go around. His bumping for Show, a la last night, is gonna rule the world.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That bump wasnt even need to good stuff, really wish he signed on longer, so many matches that could be had

Only thing I find funny though is, only in wwe land can you go from dressing like baby new year in a stupid commercial one week, to standing toe 2 toe w/ Brock Lesnar :ti


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything resets from the week before. That's how it goes in World Wrestling Entertainment.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> That bump wasnt even need to good stuff, really wish he signed on longer, so many matches that could be had
> 
> Only thing I find funny though is, only in wwe land can you go from dressing like baby new year in a stupid commercial one week, to standing toe 2 toe w/ Brock Lesnar :ti


Brock's getting more than a million for a PPV Match. The smart businessman he is I don't see him leaving after 31 except if Dana White offers him a bigger contract.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I prefer Brock to stay w/WWE. I'll follow his career no matter where he goes, tbf. Murdering fools in wrestling or MMA - I don't care where I get my fix.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Sono Shion said:


> Yes please.


They should do this spot again right before the Royal Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasting it at Vengeance 2011 killed all chances of that.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

It seems unlikely that they would destroy the ring when the top rope is an essential part of the Royal Rumble...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't get into MMA or UFC. I watched some of Brock's fights but I only liked him because I was a fan when he wrestled. I have tried to watch but it's just not for me. I like my violence scripted. :curry2 

:rock2 Foley Shamrock cage match is so fun! Blue cage!! :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Decided to watch some Benoit...

Benoit/A-Train (No Mercy) ***1/2
Benoit/Show (SD 2003) ***1/2
Benoit/Batista (RAW 2005) ***
Benoit/Finlay (Judgement Day) **** *this match was fn awesome*



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Backlash with :austin2 (incredibly underrated match) coming up.


Think ive said this before but the match at Backlash should've happened at WM15. Its the better of the two.



Prime Evil said:


> No more Rock is the only thing I'm going to hope for.
> 
> Brock is ten times more insane on this go around. His bumping for Show, a la last night, is gonna rule the world.


In the same boat. Punk and Cena were the top guys I wanted Rock to wrestle, after 4 disappointing matches I can't say I'll be happy when Rock returns.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm not as bothered about Brock vs Show as others but I do think there would've been better options. A returning Sheamus challenging Brock at the Rumble would've been wonderful.
> 
> Oh well, just give me :brock vs rton2 and I'm the happiest guy alive!


Sheamus/Lesnar would have been perfect but I don't think it would have been the brightest idea returning from a major injury to work your return match against :brock 

infact it would be retarded because Brock Lesnar would end him :heyman4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Who is this Benjamin Oit fella? :aries2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs A-Train is boss. Botch on the chair is fucked up. What can you do? Good underrated stuff.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Any HBK gems from 08-09?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit and Albert also have a good match on Smackdown before NM. I think it's the one where Benoit makes him tap out with the feet under the rope that starts their meaningless "feud".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit needed something to do until Rumble. :draper2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

True but couldn't they find a better reason than "You made me tap out with my feet under the rope so instead of complaining to the ref, I'm mad at you"?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I know it's soooooooooooo uncool to like the :rock2 in the IWC but I'm getting ready to pop in disc 2 of the newest Rock set. Cage match with Foley & Shamrock, I quit with Foley and Backlash with :austin2 (incredibly underrated match) coming up.
> 
> :rock was entertaining as fuck in 1998 and 1999. :mark:


lol'd at opening sentence. Meh. Folks will get over Rock's latest run in time.

Is this that Dwayne Johnson Story Epic Journey or whatever its called?

Pretty average set. The one in 2008 was pretty solid match wise, just didnt have a documentary. Though those matches you listed are worth getting excited for.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Any HBK gems from 08-09?


raw

vs. jeff hardy 08
vs. john cena 09


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> True but couldn't they find a better reason than "You made me tap out with my feet under the rope so instead of complaining to the ref, I'm mad at you"?


WWE felt A-Train was certainly an irrational heel to make it semi-feasible. :hmm:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That A-Train segment right before the Benoit/Lesnar match where he bet that Benoit would win was very powerful. Man, Smackdown in 2003 :lenny

EDIT: :lmao Mark Henry in the beginning of the Sexual Chocolate storyline is hilarious. Dude was always on point. All the time.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That A-Train/Benoit No Mercy match :mark:

Although Benoit get's dropped on his head


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

T'was indeed very EEK.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Can someone explain why the fuck Mark Henry is being replaced by Big Show in the programme against Lesnar?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, just finished 1998. As expected, the year was not very good in-ring wise. I was hoping for some hidden gems like in some of my past yearly projects, and in some cases I did find some good ones. There were lots of pretty fun moments though that brought back tons of nostalgia. Here's a list of matches that I thought were worth watching from that year:



Spoiler: 1998



Ken Shamrock vs. The Rock (Royal Rumble): ***
Royal Rumble: ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble): ****1/4
Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Rougeaus (1/19): **1/2
Erin O'Grady vs. Vic Grimes (1/20): ***
Mark Henry vs. Ken Shamrock (1/26): **3/4
Pantera vs. Brian Christopher (1/26): ***
Terry Funk vs. Cactus Jack (2/2): ***1/4
LOD vs. New Age Outlaws (2/23): **3/4
Barry Windham vs. Taka Michinoku (2/23): FUN
Brian Christopher vs. Mr. Aguila (3/9): **1/2
Undertaker vs. Kane (Wrestlemania): ***1/2
Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania): ***
Undertaker vs. Kane (In Your House: Unforgiven): ***
Steve Austin vs. Dude Love (In Your House: Unforgiven): ****
Terry Funk vs. Mick Foley (5/4): ***3/4
Taka Michinoku vs. Togo (5/25): **3/4
Steve Austin vs. Dude Love (In Your House: Over The Edge): ****1/2
Mark Henry vs. Terry Funk (6/1): ***
DX vs. NOD (6/1): **3/4
Mark Henry vs. Vader (6/8): **3/4
Mark Henry vs. Ken Shamrock (6/22): **3/4
Undertaker vs. Mankind (King of the Ring): ****1/2
Fatal Four Way Tag Match (8/10): ***
DX vs. Nation (8/17): **3/4
Val Venis vs. D'Lo Brown (Summerslam): ***1/4
Jeff Jarrett vs. X-Pac (Summerslam): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart (Summerslam): ***1/4
The Rock vs. Triple H (Summerslam): ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (Summerslam): ***
The Rock vs. Kane (9/14): ***
Undertaker vs. Mankind (9/14): **3/4
Mark Henry vs. Chyna/X-Pac (9/14): **1/2
Steve Austin vs. Ken Shamrock (9/14): ***
X-Pac vs. D'Lo Brown (9/21): **3/4
The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind (9/21): ***
Hardy Boyz vs. Kaientai (9/27): ***
Edge vs. Owen Hart (In Your House: Breakdown): ***
Bradshaw vs. Vader (In Your House: Breakdown): ***
The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind (In Your House: Breakdown): ***3/4
X-Pac vs. D'Lo Brown (10/5): **3/4
Undertaker vs. The Rock (10/5): ***
Christian vs. Taka Michinoku (In Your House: Judgment Day): ***
Goldust vs. Val Venis (In Your House: Judgment Day): ***
X-Pac vs. D'Lo Brown (In Your House: Judgment Day): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind (In Your House: Judgment Day): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. The Rock (11/2): **3/4
Ken Shamrock vs. Mankind (11/9): ***
Kane vs. Edge (11/9): **3/4
Mankind vs. The Rock (Survivor Series): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. Big Bossman vs. Mankind (11/16): **3/4
X-Pac vs. The Rock (11/16): ***
Steve Blackman vs. Owen Hart (In Your House: Rock Bottom): ***
Triple H vs. The Rock (12/14): **3/4
Ken Shamrock vs. Billy Gunn (12/21): **3/4
Mankind vs. Road Dogg (12/28): ***



*MVP: Stone Cold Steve Austin*

Who else could it have been? The man, who at the time was arguably the biggest star wrestling ever had was at his peak. It truly is amazing how he was able to maintain such a great following. Every night he brought it on the mic, and while there was a time where he was having some disappointing matches, he was easily #2 in the ring as well. Austin's marquee year that may have been the best ever for a main eventer. Great title reign(s), great feuds, and most importantly, succeeded better than anyone ever had/has as the top guy.

*Wrestler of the Year: Mick Foley*

I am shocked that Mick Foley did not break his back with the way that he carried the company. Dude was a workhorse in a time where "work" was a dirty word. If you take a look at the list I posted, Foley seems to appear all the time against a wide variety of wrestlers, and he more than likely gave everyone their best match of the year. He didn't always get the time to put on some all-time classics, but when he did get the chance (vs. Austin, vs. Undertaker), he always nailed it. Foley mastered the "Attitude Era" brawl better than everyone else combined. The way he sacrificed his body night in and night out either to put over a face or to draw heat on a heel was something to truly awe at.

*Match of the Year: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love In Your House: Over the Edge*

The best example of what the Attitude Era was. Yes, there was tons of punches, outside brawling, overbooking, and interference. Didn't matter; it all worked out perfectly. With the odds stacked against Stone Cold, he fought a valiant fight against his first true test as champion where you couldn't help but cheer him on. Hats off to Vince too for changing the stipulations and further stacking the odds against Austin. Nothing felt like contrived here; the "overbooking" flowed well with the match and had reason to it. No need to say much about Foley either because he brought out his usual scrappy, resourceful goodness. Although the formula of this match has been copied and more often than not failed throughout the years, it served as the perfect blueprint of the Attitude Era style involving the two best wrestlers possible to have a crazy brawl. Extra points too for nearly salvaging the worst undercard of all-time.

*PPV of the Year: Summerslam 1998*

Honestly, most of the PPVs in 1998 were worse than last year's worst (Night of Champions). We had shows where a dull tag match was the main event, shows where a bunch of wrestlers were booked to wrestle for reasons unknown, shows with 13 DUD matches, and even shows without endings. What made Summerslam so special was that it was the only show in 1998 that felt "complete". It wasn't just the main event that delivered; every part of the card did. Fun opener, good tag matches, a star-making performance between the two biggest young stars in the business at the time, and a big time main event match. Combine all of that with a HOT MSG crowd, and you got yourselves a good show (or rather a good enough show).

Overall, I would have to give 1998 a solid 6/10 as a year. It was the year that I started watching wrestling so it always bears significance to me. I can honestly say though that 1998 was nothing more than a product of its time that did not hold up. Sure there were lots of iconic segments (Tyson/Austin, Foley's fall, DX invading WCW, Socko), but people seem to forget that there were twice as many poor ones as well. Lots of stories were raunchy just for the sake of being raunchy which made them more cringeworthy than entertaining. The midcard was also not very strong at all, especially since a lot of guys really only had a gimmick and nothing else. Of course, the wrestling was poor and most of the matches on RAW lasted five minutes and in those five minutes, they still managed to bore you to death. To top it all off, lots of great talents (Goldust, Owen, Vader, Scorpio, Funk) were treated like absolute crap.

Now why does this year get a six instead of a two or a three? Well that's the magic of a terrific main event. Just about every main event feud was on point. Stone Cold was the perfect main event babyface to rally behind. If you isolate the way he was booked, he was no different from Hogan or Cena, but the way he played his rebellious character made him infinitely more interesting than those two. It also helped that he had what may have been the greatest heel ever in Vince McMahon working alongside him. Vince's evolution from timid, reluctant boss to a vengeful, maniacal monster has to be a candidate for greatest character evolution ever. When you come down to it, the man was justified for every time he got mad at Austin, but the man was still able to make you hate him. It also helps to have exciting crowds, fast-paced action, and a unifying theme to the show. Once again, 1998 was nothing more than a product of its time, but that time did give way to many iconic moments in wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 1998 continuously got no love from you, yet when it's all said and done you have to put it over as PPV of the year. That's good to know. _(plus it's fun to bust balls at times.)_

LIONS DEN - ADJACENT TO MADISON SQUARE GARDEN

Awesome comprehensive write up on the year. And I swear I didn't even know Bradshaw vs Vader happened on a PPV. My apparent vast memory went blank there. Oh my science @ how that probably is. Can't wait.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, thanks for putting me over there. SS 98 was a good show, but I can name eight Summerslams off the top of my head that were better. Heck, if we went by that ridiculous Cal Scale, 2012's show would be higher.

Now let's see if Michaels/Angle WM holds up, or if I will come to my senses and realize how bad it is :angle2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still keen on it b/c while it may have not been the best SummerSlam of the bunch, the PPV still contained its consistency in a year where the action on PPV wasn't exactly any good. Wins me over on that alone. That & I adore one of the matches from it. And the match that was basically the "biggest offender" on the night was still fun in the wrestlecrap way - Kaientai vs Oddities. I love that PPV franchise so much. Not quite as keen on the Cal scale...

If you're not feeling the Vengeance '05 match w/them, then I think it should translate to not digging the WM match. b/c the first is supremely inferior to the second match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That A-Train segment right before the Benoit/Lesnar match where he bet that Benoit would win was very powerful. Man, Smackdown in 2003 :lenny
> 
> EDIT: :lmao Mark Henry in the beginning of the Sexual Chocolate storyline is hilarious. Dude was always on point. All the time.


Yeah watched Benoit/Lesnar with that segment beforehand, really good match and the segment definitely brings back some great memories.

Need to watch Angle/Lesnar Ironman, haven't seen the match since it first aired.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Ehh not to high on a brock/batista match either, although I wished it was henry/brock, I'm content w/ show/brock but I hope its doesnt narrow his match down to 3 now left


Yeah, i really hope Brock does at least 4 PPV's this year as he is working Rumble. 

Or just pay him whatevere the fuck he wants to do them all lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Company can fire some jobbers to give Brock the money he wants. It'll be win/win in keeping him around + trimming the fat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Prime Evil said:


> Company can fire some jobbers to give Brock the money he wants. It'll be win/win in keeping him around + trimming the fat.


I pretty much said the exact same thing in my latest video . I specified Miz and Barrett to be exact .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

To keep w/the fun of having to disagree at least one time per post: I'd keep Barrett. :side:


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

So....Kaitlyn's out the door.


RIP 

2010-2014


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

No, keep Barrett. Drop Miz, Khali, Kofi, Axel, JTG. YES, FUCKING JTG STILL WORKS THERE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would only keep Barrett so Pyro keeps entertaining me and others with his never ending complaining about Barrett position in the company. Would drop him in a second at the expense of that for a new BROCK contract, though.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well, just finished 1998. As expected, the year was not very good in-ring wise. I was hoping for some hidden gems like in some of my past yearly projects, and in some cases I did find some good ones. There were lots of pretty fun moments though that brought back tons of nostalgia. Here's a list of matches that I thought were worth watching from that year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd recommend at least continuing until Backlash 99. The RTWM that year was insane. Great retrospective overall though of 98 funnyfaces. I thoroughly enjoyed your work.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So who does everyone think will return in the Rumble match? Sheamus seems a obvious one, but I want CHRISTIAN back. Dude's been gone far too long. :side:



Rah said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone explain why the fuck Mark Henry is being replaced by Big Show in the programme against Lesnar?





Spoiler: answer



Because Henry's apparently injured again. No surprise the guy can't seem to go anytime without getting injured again, similar to Mysterio in that regard.





WrestlingforEverII said:


> So....Kaitlyn's out the door.
> 
> 
> RIP
> ...


Yeah... no fucks given.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great write up funnyfaces1 (Y)


----------



## Raw2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

Watching Vengeance 2001 Right now, will probably post a review later on. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Prime Evil said:


> Company can fire some jobbers to give Brock the money he wants. It'll be win/win in keeping him around + trimming the fat.


They don't know how to trim the fat anymore, I miss those spring cleaning years


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Seeing as there's fuck all on TV, the first person to reply with a match, I'll watch and review.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^^Lesnar/Angle Iron man?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - Ironman Match*

_My views on this match have changed drastically after rewatching this. The last time I watched this was a few years ago and I thought it was a bonafide classic, maybe five stars. This time, not so much. By all means, it's still a good match, hell I'd even consider it great, but it certainly has gone down. I'll start off with what I liked. I liked that there was very little stalling in the match (bar the intentional stalling from Bork at the beginning, but that made sense), very few rest holds and the action was non stop. In a way it's what you expect from Angle and Lesnar, but considering it's a 60 minute match, it certainly is impressive. I enjoyed Angle busting out some stuff that we rarely, if ever, see from him such as the axe handle to the floor and the missile dropkick. Brock bumping like a loon like usual was great, but that's typical Brock. I also love the tactics for Lesnar's first two falls, attacking Angle with the chair and getting disqualified only to weaken Kurt and subsequently gain two falls as a result. 

However, thats where my approval of the shenanigans ends. What irked me the most about this match was the booking. Yes, Brock won, but I';ll be damned if he didn't look like a pussy doing so. Heel or not, Brock is a machine, a once in a lifetime athlete, yet he has to cheat and use underhanded tactics so much. The first two falls should have been the end of Brock's shady tactics, IMO, but instead they have him gain another fall via count out (which I wouldn't exactly call clean) and another via using a weapon again. As well as that, all four falls Kurt scored were completely clean and completely legal. I personally feel at least one of Kurt's falls (preferably the later ones) should have been a bit dirty, just to show some desperation and somewhat protect Brock.

So yeah. The action was great, there's no doubt about that. The booking of the match just really irked me and really took me out of the match. Is it a good match? Certainly. Is it a great match? Of course. Will I watch it again in the fuutre? Most probably. But is it an all time classic like I used to consider it and like many people still do consider it? In my opinion, No._


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Disagree, but thanks for taking the rec 

what do you have for Stars on that? I have it at ****1/2 I think, and GOAT IM match


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree SO MUCH, Flux. Was gonna post virtually the same thing here, but didn't feel like getting into it.

I was disappointed, because one of the main reasons I bought Lesnar's DVD was for that match (and yep, zep, you're right...they didn't even put that Big Show/Lesnar Stretcher match on the updated edition of the DVD).

It was good, but I was really expecting to be blown away. I know that all heels are supposed to do chicken shit stuff, but Brock should be one of the exceptions to the norm.

At least he came off as a bit devious, rather than _really_ desperate, but it was annoying nonetheless. Maybe it's because he didn't have that super "I don't give a shit" vibe about himself, that I would especially want if he's gonna do a bunch of cheating type shit.

Maybe I went in with too high hopes, but I felt the match was just pretty solid.


~~~~~~~~~~~~

Watched *Austin/Angle SS '01* (thanks, zep, I downloaded your link!). I give it **** 1/2. It was really good, and had a sense of urgency and badassery, for a lack of a better word.

I think what helped make it really interesting for me, was that I expected someone to do something really heinous. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, due to that.

The reasoning is because C2D put in spoiler tags why he thinks that match was never released on a DVD. When he said it had nothing to do with Benoit, I just assumed it had to be that something really brutal in the match happened that they were kind of ashamed of now. Like maybe Austin going after a female really violently or something (especially with his arrest record, and the fact that I've seen him "beat" the shit out of a woman's wrestler before with a chair...I think Lita?). 

So it added to me feeling really tense the whole time, thinking that something shocking was about to break out, lol. Turns out it was nothing of the sort, but it ended up adding to the match.

Austin was also just heeling it up the whole time so beautifully. He really just runs shit when he's like that, and Angle seemed gutsy, and the whole crowd was on fire.

Good times, though it's still something that didn't completely bowl me over, but I guess that's the super high expectations again.


C2D, I can understand them not wanting to put too many matches that end up in DQ on DVD, but at the same time, matches with a lot of interference are just as annoying, and they certainly put a lot of those types out on DVD (how could they not, considering what the Attitude Era was like? lol). You'd think it could at least show up on _one_ DVD.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Watched *Edge vs. Kurt Angle Hair vs. Hair* match from Judgment Day 2002. Angle did some nonsensical shit here, so I can fully understand if people aren't that enamored with this match, but this was so fun as hell that I didn't even give a shit. I had a smile on my face the entire time, throughout the match _and_ the aftermath.

The two of them had such great chemistry together here, that everything they did felt electric (even if like I said, a few things didn't make all that much sense). 

Don't know when Edge really started standing out on his own, but I feel this could have been a star making turn for him, and Angle was at his goofy best.

**** and would totally watch again.


Also watched *Pat O'Conner vs. Buddy Rogers from 1961 in Chicago*. I'd actually seen this on Youtube before, but watched it again on DVD. O'Conner seems really good, and seems like someone who could fit in today. He actually kind of reminded me of Cesaro. 

I was watching with someone else, and after I told them that Buddy Rogers was one of Flair's idols, _they_ noticed how similiar Flair was to Buddy. Even Buddy doing the "no, no" thing with his hand up and backing into the corner on his knees. I didn't even notice that the first time.

Buddy's strut was funny.

Not gonna rate it, but it was fun seeing a match from back then. lmao at people complaining about rest holds nowadays. Really drives home how retarded some complaints are.


Batista vs. HHH HIAC was good. Don't have much else to say. ****.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Watched *Austin/Angle SS '01* (thanks, zep, I downloaded your link!). I give it **** 1/2. It was really good, and had a sense of urgency and badassery, for a lack of a better word.
> 
> Batista vs. HHH HIAC was good. Don't have much else to say. ****.


No problem. Those head bumps Angle took off the ring posts  Surprised your rating for Batista/Trips is a little 'low' IMHO, i LOVE that match, probably ****3/4 on my last watch, but glad you enjoyed both.

Now i'm off to watch my favorite guilty pleasure (fuck the haters  ) - Austin/Hunter - No Way Out 2001. :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SMITTY, I go back and forth on stars, I'll use them one month and the next I won't. I'd probably chuck **** at it. Like I said, it's a great match, but not the classic I thought it would be/remember it being. FWIW I prefer AJ/Daniels when it comes to Ironman matches and Callihan/Cole from PWG last year comes close. So I'd probably have this as the 2nd GOAT IM match, behind the aforementioned Styles/Daniels bout, but that was a 30 minute Ironman so it may not be fair to compare.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Damn I have to see Callihan/Cole match, hear its :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Lesnar's DVD was for that match (and yep, zep, you're right...they didn't even put that Big Show/Lesnar Stretcher match on the updated edition of the DVD).


WHAT!? Idiots.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Callihan and Michael Cole had a match on NXT?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHAT!? Idiots.


Just looked it up and it's true. The original HCTP includes it but the updated version from 2012 includes all the matches except this one. And knowing the idiots, it's probably because Benoit's name is on the stretcher. fpalm


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Cal said:


> Callihan and Michael Cole had a match on NXT?


Yeah, it included a shit load of BBQ sauce :cena


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I own the original release on DVD and then the new Bluray one so I'm fine with it .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just looked it up and it's true. The original HCTP includes it but the updated version from 2012 includes all the matches except this one. And knowing the idiots, it's probably because Benoit's name is on the stretcher. fpalm


I never thought about it like that, but i bet that is the reason. Stupidity. Glad i won the PPV on DVD cos i do likes that match alot.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

1990 Royal Rumble

This card looks brutal. I'm really worried about how this is going to be.



*The Rougeau Brothers w/Jimmy Hart vs. The Bushwhackers* 

I really thought this was going to be terrible but it wasn't at all. It was your standard southern tag so just saying that should be enough to describe how this match went. The crowd loved the match so that helped and they didn't botch anything. Basic and easy to sit through. I won't complain because I was expecting crap.
***1/4* 


*The Genius vs. Brutus "The Babrber" Beefcake *

I will admit that the antics from the Genius were pretty amusing. Everything else was pretty bad excpet for a brutal looking ref bump. The match was totally one sided and at no point did it look like the Genius had a chance. He tried to make it good, I think, but Beefcake acted like a weirdo the whole match and gave him nothing. Oh, and there wasn't a finish. 
*1/2* *


_Submission Match:_ 
*Greg "The Hammer" Valentine w/Jimmy Hart vs. Ronny Garvin*

I want to get the big problem I had with this match out of the way first. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO GO FOR A COVER? Both guys just kept doing it over and over during the entire match. I don't know if they did it on purpose or if they did out of actual instinct but it was really annoying either way. Now that's out of the way I can talk about the rest of this match. 

It was pretty great. There were a few different layers of story in the match. One the surface you have these guys just beating the shit out of each other until one can't go on. Then they had this thing with leg pads on. Apparently Valentine was injured and had been wearing one for a while (like Bob Orton's cast basically) and Garvin wore his own pad to counter that. So that was a dynamic that the match didn't totally focus on but they went to it enough that you didn't forget about when it started to play a factor in the match. Eventually both guys ended up pad-less and there was some great selling from the Garvin after Valentine locked in the Figure Four. All of the stuff with the knee pads was pretty well done but the meat of the match was just this really fun brawl between Valentine and Garvin. I think I finally found my appreciation for Greg Valentine that I know other have but I never really did. 
****1/2* 


*"Hacksaw" Jim Duggan vs. The Big Boss Man w/Slick*

They almost had a really good match. Almost. The pacing for the first couple minutes was awesome as they captured that wild and out of controlling feeling that you want to see when there is a match like this. Basically they had a 10 minute match when a 5 or 7 match would have been a lot more enjoyable. It was still pretty solid but as the match wore on it started to drag. I was expecting this to be terrible so I guess I really can't complain.
****


*Royal Rumble Match*

So now that I've seen the first three Rumbles I can see how the match has evolved and how the match has gotten better and better over the first 3 years. They got timing of the entrants down perfectly here. It started with star power and excitement and it ended that way as well. There was still this patch in the middle that wasn't too interesting but the match started and ended strong. I loved the first part of the match. DiBiase drew #1 and there was this great encounter between him and Jake Roberts. Seeing them getting ready for a fight and fighting was also really cool but the next two guys after they started fighting were Savage and Piper were next. My favorite moment of the match was probably seeing Piper and Roberts standing back to back fighting off DiBiase and Savage. The ending was good but not great, mostly because there was just so much more talent in the first part of the match. Overall the match set up Wrestlemania perfectly. I want to say that almost half of the card was foreshadowed here. There was a brief Hogan/Warrior showdown that was my second favorite moment of the match. 

It wasn't all great. I was a little annoyed that they moved away from the every man for himself dynamic and went closer to the heels vs. faces dynamic of the first match. There were also some talented guys that I would have liked to see shine more. I think Shawn Michaels lasted for about 30 seconds. I like Royal Rumble matches a lot so I'm sure my ratings will be higher then most but I really did enjoy this match. Another improvement on the match type.
****1/4*​
Overally this was a lot better then I was expecting. I still wouldn't call it a good PPV but it's better then it looks on paper.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> SMITTY, I go back and forth on stars, I'll use them one month and the next I won't. I'd probably chuck **** at it. Like I said, it's a great match, but not the classic I thought it would be/remember it being. FWIW I prefer AJ/Daniels when it comes to Ironman matches and Callihan/Cole from PWG last year comes close. So I'd probably have this as the 2nd GOAT IM match, behind the aforementioned Styles/Daniels bout, but that was a 30 minute Ironman so it may not be fair to compare.



If we are including 30 min IM's, then Steamer/Rude has to be the clear number 1. That's one of the finest matches in wrestling history. Rudes selling is better than just about any selling any wrestler has done ever. A lot of hyperbole there but I honestly believe it. 

To be fair, I haven't seen the Styles/Daniels and Cole/Callihan matches you were pimping, so maybe I should give them a shot.


I think Vader might finally be forfeiting his spot as my favorite pure heel ever. With every match Lesnar is cementing his status as simply the best bad guy in the business.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not having the stretcher match on that DVD is one of the only things that the DVD needed to be one of the greatest match COMPs ever if you include the blu-ray extra with the Extreme Rules match with Johnny boy.

If we get HHH Vs Punk, Brock Vs Taker, Batista/Orton, & Cena/Bryan/Hogan Vs Wyatts or something I'm going to faint into MARKDOM.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I got a rep comment saying the exact same thing, Cactus Jack. I personally haven't seen it - Hell I haven't seen a lot of early WCW, I'll get on it straight away seeing as I'm taking a break from WrestleKingdom. I'll have a little write up on it in half an hour. 

Edit: Infact, there's another Ironman match I'd have over Kurt/Bork as well, and possibly over AJ/Daniels - Rollins and Ambrose's 30 minute 15 Championship match from FCW. I adore that match and I'm one if it's biggest advocates, though. Most probably won't hold it in such high regard, but I don't care. It's phenomenal.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Now i'm off to watch my favorite guilty pleasure (fuck the haters  ) - Austin/Hunter - No Way Out 2001. :mark:


love that match.

Going on a Foley binge and watching Greatest Hits and Misses. First match is vs. Vader on 4/17/93. Such a great hard hitting match. Something I don't think people realize about this match is that coming in Cactus was a heel and a midcarder who was lost in the shuffle after his loss to Sting 10 months prior at Beach Blast. Vader was an unstoppable monster at the time. The result of the match and the subsequent match were unfathomable at the time. I think this match did almost as much for Foley's career as his match vs Taker in HiaC.

Cactus/Payne vs Nasties is obviously one of the gems from WCW. ***3/4 for this. I prefer the Cactus/Sullivan vs Nasties match which I gave ****1/2 I think.

Cactus vs Sabu - Hostile City Showdown 94. Foley said that he was disappointed with the match as were the fans. I loved the match. The ending could've been better but it was good. The aftermath was also fun with the Bruise Bros, Mr Hughes, and 911 coming out to brawl. ***1/4 for this. Going to hunt down the other Cactus/Sabu matches...esp the one where Sabu fucks his ribs up


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Not having the stretcher match on that DVD is one of the only things that the DVD needed to be one of the greatest match COMPs ever if you include the blu-ray extra with the Extreme Rules match with Johnny boy.
> 
> If we get HHH Vs Punk, Brock Vs Taker, Batista/Orton, & Cena/Bryan/Hogan Vs Wyatts or something I'm going to faint into MARKDOM.


Don't forget the Benoit match and Angle from SummerSlam. Would've been COMPLETE.

And :mark: @ that Mania card. Pretty much the best way to go to keep everyone relevant although I feel bad for WORKHORSE FELLA.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

It's really exciting to think of all the potential matches they can have for Mania given all of the talent. 

I love some of WCW hardcore tag matches. I come across them from time on old shows and they are always a blast. Nasty Boys/Public Enemy from Super Brawl VI was one of the first matches that I really remember so that has a soft spot. That's the match that taught a very young me that matches without Hulk Hogan can still be good...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty fucking pumped for this WWE network. It'll be awesome to just have an outlet that will show wrestling 24/7! 

If they fuck this up fpalm


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

With Benoit confirmed to be shown, I've gone from indifferent to totally excited. If they air full Raw/SDs from the RA era... :mark:

Just hope they don't change their mind and decide to hide him again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Network will be awesome with everyone uploading shit to torrents because I won't be able to pay for it for a while most likely, plus I doubt it'll be in the UK any time soon (maybe online, but I want it on TV), PLUS I'll likely have to subscribe to Sky or some other cable/satellite TV provider again which will add extra charges that i definitely can't afford.

Can people in the UK order PPV's on wwe.com? Wanna know for the RR.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

On this day:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOOSEBUMPS for that HHH vid.

WWE Network should be fine, even if they bog it down a little with stupid entertainment shows, they usually all have some sort of value like I find most WWE affiliated things have. Kind of wanna see what kind of subscription service they come up with though, and if we're going to be getting a ton of classic material or not.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude - Ironman Match*

_So this is one of them classics that I've never seen before, I I'll forever hate myself for leaving it this late. This was fantastic in every single way. Steamboat is famous for his babyface performances and his selling and this match is no different - In fact, this may be one of the best examples of it. But not only that... 1) Rude's selling of the ribs was amazing as well, despite the fact that it becamse less obvious as the match progressed and 2) Not only was Steamboat's selling good, but his offence was fantastic as well. The gutbuster at the beginning of the match looked sweet and his striking was crisp as well. I loved the fact that not only did he target the ribs, but he targeted ONE SIDE of the ribs, and that's something I've never seen done before.

In the Lesnar/Angle review I praised the Lesnar getting intentionally DQ'ed angle, and this match had something very similar with Rude flying off of the top rope with a knee over the throat (which looked nasty, btw) and it worked just as well, and Jesse & Jim put it over Rude's tactics fantastically on commentary. The last minute and a half was crazy, with the sleeper hold, Steamboat's final pin and Rick's frantic rush to try and get another fall in the final thirty seconds. Fantastic stuff.

The crowd was hot throughout, Jesse and Jim were good on commentary, and both men played their roles fantastically in what was a phenomenal match. Great, great stuff._

-------

I'm on a role and in a wrestling mood: Any suggestions? Several suggestions if you want, I'm not going to sleep for a while. Not Ironman matches, though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Damn I have to see Callihan/Cole match, hear its :mark:


It's absolutely amazing. Watch it asap. PWG 2013 MOTY. Don't even have to see ASW to know this. _(also b/c it isn't released yet...)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan Bragging Rights*

Just rewatched this after ppl were talking about it in the chatbox. Ive watched this many times and just amazes me how good it is. I've through the years done a compete 180 on this match.I view this a "showcase" for both men, coming out party if you will and boy does it deliver.WWE even recognized it the 2nd MOTY of that year. The match is structured so well. Ziggler control segments are tremendous as well as bryan selling. I love it because it showcased these two are for real and can work the wwe style, hell this was main event caliber match. So many times ziggles is critics (sometimes well deserving) of wrestling a "mindless back and forth" 12 opening match. However sometimes he strikes gold, and this is a prime examples

I need a gif of the bryan missile drop kick onto ziggles and the him selling it like a champ, could have broke him neck


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just DL that PWG show Cody, will get to it this weekend as I'm watching WK 8 right now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do have faith in Dolph to be good on his own accord, although when you stick him in the ring w/Danielson & allow it to actually be formatted into something you can tell they wanted to work, it wasn't a surprise to see the match turn out as well as it did. I single handedly bought that show blind on DVD just b/c I heard so much fuss about the match. Was worth it.

Awesome, smitty. Whole show is quite good. But that main event. Whew. Doesn't even feel like sixty minutes. Done so well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea match is good indeed, its interesting although on know he is a face how much his style has changed since then. Bryan shockingly enough still works the same way,

Yea the match is amazing, I know both men have better matches since then to their name, but I would firmly put this in both top 3 ? Actually may be ziggles 2nd best match come to think of it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I prefer Dolph working as a babyface, but yeah, that's def a top flight match for him in his career. Unanimous on what his best performance is.

Doesn't even have to be said. Double turn, baby.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that they had a trilogy of matches that week. PPV, then Raw, then SD. All good-great, getting a little "worse" every time but still all being good.

Edit: Just realised I'm still rocking my christmas sig. I should change that. Later.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wasnt even gonna mention it brother :ziggler2

I do prefer him working babyface as well, he seemed to thrive in that alignment for a short while


Did you ever watch that hhh/benoit iron man ? If so thoughts, thinking of watch it myself


Edit: Yea cal really good stuff, although I think I liked the sd more than raw so I'd go ppv>>sd>>raw


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> I'm on a role and in a wrestling mood: Any suggestions? Several suggestions if you want, I'm not going to sleep for a while. Not Ironman matches, though


Watch the Chris Benoit/Mike Enos matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> wasnt even gonna mention it brother :ziggler2
> 
> I do prefer him working babyface as well, he seemed to thrive in that alignment for a short while
> 
> ...


Nah. Don't think I have the strength in me for a good bit to go through sixty minutes of Triple H. Especially if I don't do the Ironman vs The Rock first. You may end up watching it before me.



Yeah1993 said:


> Watch the Chris Benoit/Mike Enos matches.


There is more than one? oh shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I HATE iron mans with a passion myself, but I thought if I could stomach seeing another ever again, it would be a chris benoit one. And I'm fondly of Haitch's stuff from that era tbhayley


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Benoit/HHH iron man is good, but nothing more really. They just kinda stay in one gear the entire time, which is impressive as thy don't really slow down at any point... but at the same time they don't put any extra effort in at any point either. Rock/HHH is worlds better. Probs my fav Rock match outside of WM XIX.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

(@Cody)I talked about some 4 minute matches when watching all of that Enos.



> Mike Enos v. Chris Benoit (WCWSN Night Before Fall Brawl 1999)
> These two have a great PPV match so I was looking forward to this 3 minutes. This was a US Title match and sweet paddle pop on a fucking stick it was a hell of a sprint. I said Enos always has good offense (somewhere.....didn't I?) and he and Benoit rough the crap out of each other in the collar-elbow tie-up. Enos throws blows like a madman to shockingly enormous boos. It was probably canned. Benoit fires back and Enos sells the chops really fucking awesomely ('awesomely'?, how is that not underlined?); he falls down HARD on the big ones and doesn't make the selling of it seem silly. It's a big burly dude flying downward and BOINGING when someone simply throws their hand into his chest. That, by all means, should look ridiculous, but it doesn't because Mike Fucking Enos. Enos tries to create space but Benoit's too busy throwing Enos into things to give shit about his needs. So yeah, what were the DQ rules in WCW around this time? Enos uses the US belt a few times on the outside, throws it into the ring and the ref does nothing. What have I been missing? Whatever, this was pretty sweet.
> 
> Mike Enos v. Chris Benoit (Nitro 7/14/97)
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enos v. Benoit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am removed from another one of their matches and this one didn't disappoint either. Benoit didn't get much offense in here but man he looked to be working a lot stiffer in 97 than in 99. His chops looked like they'd rip a nipple off. Enos gets to control most of this and I've said whatever about his offense looking good and hard, yet I never mention(ed) how he often has something neat in his arsenal that he doesn't bring up a ton. I've never seen the piledriver he used here. It was a reverse tombstone where he jumped and it looked badass and violent. Maybe it's because he had Benoit up in a 'regular' piledriver position and I wasn't expecting this weird reverse-tombstone, but it took me aback and it seemed like the kind of move that could injure really easily. Benoit's quick-as-hell crossface win comebacks are oddly satisfying and I love this Benoit/Enos match-up right now.


LINJKS (with a J and everything) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeYRpcgQXyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDL_m_D2nh0


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins you should try the Rude vs Steamboat Ironman from Beach Blast '92. It's only thirty minutes instead of sixty.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ I echo that sentiment, Cody. SKINS, watch Rude/Steamboat NOW, I just watched and reviewed it. Highly, highly recommended.

Also just watched both Enos/Benoit matches - Enos' strikes are legit, as is his second rope fall a way slam. He literally threw Benoit to the other side of the ring. Crazy power. That tombstone piledriver Yeah mentioned is such a replayable clip it's not even funny.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll have to watch that last then. Steamboat in anything is :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Steamboat is :mark: in everything except the Kernodle/Slaughter vs. Steamboat/Youngblood cage match. He was actually the weakest performer in the match. Why on earth would you do all that chain wrestling in a heated cage match? Thank goodness that Slaughter was perfection during that period.

Bah, Cody. Michaels/Angle didn't hold up. Finishing stretch was pretty fun, but the "meat" of all of their matches just feel so insignificant. Why is Michaels winning the "wrestling" portion of the match against the kayfabe GOAT amateur wrestler? Then again, why did Shane McMahon do the same :angle2? I think I've reached that point where I can confidently say that 1996 Michaels > Rockers Michaels >> Christian Michaels >>>> post-Rockers breakup Michaels. Oh man, Michaels was not very good from 1992-1994 compared to what he became.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> (@Cody)I talked about some 4 minute matches when watching all of that Enos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the J means everything here

I almost want to believe Enos got all that heat. He did unusually at Souled Out '99 vs Benoit. And I'm talking about on the way to the ring via his entrance. Penzer says "Mike Enos" and the fans are just raining down the heat. Enos had the charisma to do that. On both sides. Random Nitro matches as a babyface vs a heel _(actually think it's THAT Finlay match in '98)_ where he comes back w/his offense and the fans are going semi-nuts for him.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The WCW crowd always seem to randomly go crazy for midcard matches. I am so happy that they were so active for Regal/Psychosis. Even the lowest of wrestlers could get a reaction on the right night.

Am I wrong for thinking that the Michaels/Jannetty matches are not "classic" level matches?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong for thinking that the Michaels/Jannetty matches are not "classic" level matches?


I enjoyed the hell out of the Michaels/Jannetty matches but they're not "classic" in my mind, so you're not alone there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Steamboat is :mark: in everything except the Kernodle/Slaughter vs. Steamboat/Youngblood cage match. He was actually the weakest performer in the match. Why on earth would you do all that chain wrestling in a heated cage match? Thank goodness that Slaughter was perfection during that period.
> 
> Bah, Cody. Michaels/Angle didn't hold up. Finishing stretch was pretty fun, but the "meat" of all of their matches just feel so insignificant. Why is Michaels winning the "wrestling" portion of the match against the kayfabe GOAT amateur wrestler? Then again, why did Shane McMahon do the same :angle2? I think I've reached that point where I can confidently say that 1996 Michaels > Rockers Michaels >> Christian Michaels >>>> post-Rockers breakup Michaels. Oh man, Michaels was not very good from 1992-1994 compared to what he became.


Didn't think it would. I still prefer it over WM, but that doesn't say much. Angle had some neat spots peppered throughout. That's far from making it anything special though. Buckle bombs, german suplexes on tables, & STIFF lariats are entertaining to see when I'm watching, at least. That's the way I approach Angle matches. GIVE ME SPOTZ. idk. I don't think much as long as I don't loathe it. Finish is still lol bad. It's a total grey area for me. Not the kind of wrestling I care to acknowledge.

Switch '96 Michaels w/Rockers Michaels and that's mine.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The WCW crowd always seem to randomly go crazy for midcard matches. I am so happy that they were so active for Regal/Psychosis. Even the lowest of wrestlers could get a reaction on the right night.
> 
> Am I wrong for thinking that the Michaels/Jannetty matches are not "classic" level matches?


They did often. At the same time, other matches they didn't. IE Finlay vs Regal at Uncensored in front of that audience. Still, Disco Inferno could have gotten a modern day WWE push after how over he was in 1998.

Nah. I never though so either. How one of them won MOTY from the Observer or whatever publication in 1993 was always puzzling. Flair vs Vader happened that same year. It's already debunked.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I lol'd at the finish watching it live (I was there, guys!) and I was 9. Angle with DAT FLYING DOUBLE AXE HANDLE :lmao :kurt


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle should only hit missile dropkicks and moonsaults. :kurt


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

At least two of each a match please. And some BELLY-TO-BELLY SUPLEXES. :mark: 

Since the WWE's _Groundbreaking Announcement_ should hold me over for a bit (and I have classes :side, I'll probably have to wait until this weekend to watch some sweaty grappling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When I went over to Victoria's wrestling themed restaurant, they were showing Vengeance 05 on the screen. A couple kids there were shocked that Christian was once a WWE Title contender :ti. I still never saw the big deal in that triple threat match. Boring.

Angle should also hit his patented 450 Knee Drop. I also remember watching a match where he randomly busted out a crazy flipping senton from the stage. I think it was against Abyss. Funniest ish ever.

Oh god, we're doing it again. Now let's move on to talking about why Hardyz vs. Edge and Christian from No Mercy 1999 is near-perfection.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Angle should also hit his patented 450 Knee Drop. *I also remember watching a match where he randomly busted out a crazy flipping senton from the stage. *I think it was against Abyss. Funniest ish ever.












:lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> :lmao


To be fair, that looked pretty sick :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know Cal or Yeah1993 or actually probably both for my sake of name dropping don't care for the Hardys vs Edge & Christian No Mercy '99 match, but I'm super high on it. All the spots off the ladders felt as if it was these young dudes trying to make their mark to win at any cost. Complete desperation the entire time. Money talks. It wasn't as if they climbed up only to get knocked down while the ladder is nowhere near the bag of money. Even the see-saw spot came off decent b/c it was at the point where they were pissed & knew something nutty would have to probably be done in order to actually win the match. I've watched it too much to go back and say _"will it hold up"_. My enjoyment of it is quite set.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^^Really dislike this match , saw it on the ladder DVD with high hopes going in and was...extremely dissapointed

BTW- does anyone else hate the Christian/Edge ladder match? Saw it once and I swear nearly fell asleep


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ I didn't hate the match, but I remembered being really unimpressed with it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal and Yeah1993 don't believe in fun unless if it involves obese people, so they probably did hate it. But that match was exactly what you said: two young teams trying to make a name for themselves. See-saw spot caught me so off guard. Perfectly executed. I remember loving the main event on that same show, but it's been four years since I last saw it. I highly doubt the ****1/4 rating that I gave it will hold up. Was that the same show where The Rock wrestled against the British Bulldog? :lmao at him Rock Bottoming Bulldog into a pile of dog crap. Was there any Big Bossman nonsense in there too? Dude had to be the biggest troll ever. Nobody ever talks about the Pepper on a pole match.

Edge and Christian were incapable of having a good match between each other.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spoiler: spoiler



so apparently the hulkster is gonna be at this WWE network thing


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> ^^^Really dislike this match , saw it on the ladder DVD with high hopes going in and was...extremely dissapointed
> 
> BTW- does anyone else hate the Christian/Edge ladder match? Saw it once and I swear nearly fell asleep


Yeah. Edge vs Christian from No Mercy '01 is bad. It's a struggle to finish.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal and Yeah1993 don't believe in fun unless if it involves obese people, so they probably did hate it. But that match was exactly what you said: two young teams trying to make a name for themselves. See-saw spot caught me so off guard. Perfectly executed. I remember loving the main event on that same show, but it's been four years since I last saw it. I highly doubt the ****1/4 rating that I gave it will hold up. Was that the same show where The Rock wrestled against the British Bulldog? :lmao at him Rock Bottoming Bulldog into a pile of dog crap. Was there any Big Bossman nonsense in there too? Dude had to be the biggest troll ever. Nobody ever talks about the Pepper on a pole match.
> 
> Edge and Christian were incapable of having a good match between each other.


But fatties in wrestling > everything. They're spot on there.

Austin vs Triple H sucks. Boring attitude era nonsense.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, I think I'm more entertained by guys like La Parka and Blitzkrieg flying around than Yokozuna and Andre slugging it out. Little guys rule. La Parka rules.

I don't doubt that Austin/HHH is gonna suck when I rewatch it. I still can't pinpoint why I loved it so much. Same thing happened to Austin/Jericho from NWO 02. I loved it for some reason just like Cal did, but after watching it again, it kinda sucked. I still don't get what's so good about the Three Stages of Hell match. A lot of people say that it's easy to watch and fun, but I thought it was the exact opposite. Dragged like hell and I didn't really like any of the falls.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I still like Austin vs. HHH 3SOH 

And there are so many matches I can watch that people ITT pimp with the WWE NETWORK :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

To celebrate the WWE Network being awesome I'm going to go and burn my entire DVD collection.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wished Jheri was here to comment on Yokozuna & La Parka being brought up at the same time.

WWE Network won me over by announcing WCW PPVs will be available. I lost myself. All that in HD w/supposedly no edits. I'm dead.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

So who wants to buy my DVD/Blu Ray collection really cheap? :curry2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Every WWF/E, WCW, and ECW being available like this could change my life...forever. :angle2

Well, maybe it's because I never torrent.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bob Bowman has the charisma of a dish towel or :axel


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HOLY FUCK @ WWE NETWORK. SOLD.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This might have been the best business decision by the WWE ever since the creation of RAW is war...

Will for sure subscribe to this 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I was sold on the WWE network just for the value of PPV's alone on it. For the year, we're essentially only paying for Mania and one other PPV's worth to get them all. Even if you'd just get Mania, the Rumble, and Summerslam (the big 3), it would be worth it just for that. Nevermind the shows they put on it, and all the episodes of Raw, SD, WCW, ECW... a WWE fan would be a fool not to get it (unless they just want to stick to illegal streams and just getting everything off Dailymotion/Youtube). 

I'm totally ready for it. I'll actually have something to follow NXT on (I hope at the same time when it would normally air, or else it's not much different than just going on Youtube and watching it), and I'll give this Legends House a try. Could either be really hilarious or really cringe-worthy.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I feel sorry for some of the guys in here who have spent over 20 years buying vhs, dvds, and blu rays. WWE Network 4 lyfe.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm sold on the network for the archives strictly! Will be great to sub and get all these great stuff from the past and if their promise holds any weight - it's UNCENSORED! :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

WWE Network is looking sweet as fuck. Every WWF, WWE, WCW, and ECW PPV and other additional content for $9.95 a month? Tell me this is too good to be true.



Choke2Death said:


> I'm sold on the network for the archives strictly! Will be great to sub and get all these great stuff from the past and if their promise holds any weight - it's UNCENSORED! :mark:


I wonder if this is going to apply to Benoit matches. I hope to Christ that it is.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

It does look great. BUT, with a six month commitment, they're likely asking for $60 up front. Not an issue for me, but others may see not be so keen to do so. Still a good deal since Mania itself is that much.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm sold on the network for the archives strictly! Will be great to sub and get all these great stuff from the past and if their promise holds any weight - it's UNCENSORED! :mark:


We can only hope it truly is uncensored, including Benoit commentary and what-not. I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I wonder if this is going to apply to Benoit matches. I hope to Christ that it is.


WWE themselves sent word that his matches will be aired although I will remain paranoid until the moment I see him there.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> We can only hope it truly is uncensored, including Benoit commentary and what-not. I'll believe it when I see it.


I think it will be that way, specially since they have the advisory. Would be way too much work to edit out commentary from every single show, match and segment involving Benoit so that's likely the reason why they said "Fuck it" and left him in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't wait for the disappointment that'll be seen once someone goes to the WCW section and see about ten PPVs total, meanwhile they have every WWE PPV from 2013 up.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They've pointed out that EVERY WWE, ECW and WCW PPV will be available, though. Doubt they would lie about something like that. About them being uncut/uncensored, that I am skeptical about. But something major like what is available - they wouldn't lie about it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Prime Evil said:


> Can't wait for the disappointment that'll be seen once someone goes to the WCW section and see about ten PPVs total, meanwhile they have every WWE PPV from 2013 up.


I have the WWE Classics service and at one point they stopped releasing Nitros from 1998 onward.
This month they have RAW 6/7/99 but still no Nitro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They said they have over 300 PPVs to show. WWE is nearly at 300 PPVs themselves. So unless they're cutting the margins up evenly, it's not going to have much WCW content. Monday Night Wars is hardly anything to get excited about either. That has been done for years via WWE 24/7 & like what was stated ^, they don't even show all the content.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm very lukewarm on this (well more uncertain) on one hand it sounds amazing, but w/ wwe there is always a catch


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm sure there will be a couple disappointments but it's worth it yearly alone for me since I usually order 3-4 PPVs.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong for thinking that the Michaels/Jannetty matches are not "classic" level matches?


They aren't better than good. Maybe the best one is scratching 'very good'.



Prime Evil said:


> I know Cal or Yeah1993 or actually probably both for my sake of name dropping don't care for the Hardys vs Edge & Christian No Mercy '99 match, but I'm super high on it.


I think it's alright, just nothing special.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Bah, I think I'm more entertained by guys like La Parka and Blitzkrieg flying around than Yokozuna and Andre slugging it out. Little guys rule. La Parka rules.


La Parka is 6'1" 230-dd lbs, which is almost massive for a Mexican wrestler. Phatties bumping for each other > everything in wrestling.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> They've pointed out that EVERY WWE, ECW and WCW PPV will be available, though. Doubt they would lie about something like that. About them being uncut/uncensored, that I am skeptical about. But something major like what is available - they wouldn't lie about it.


It's uncensored, but the network gives parents the option to block TV-14 and TV-MA material.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good call on their part. Instead of catering to a certain demographic, allow their parents to control what they can watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Does Mae Young have any worth watching matches known? Wanna watch them in tribute for the lady, cause if she hasn't passed away yet, she's close (was taken off life support earlier), so I wanna see some of her best work.

If not, I can stick with the segments w/Henry 

Part of me simply doesn't wanna say RIP yet, cause she might pull through, but who knows, better sooner than later in some cases.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

Now I see why WWE stopped releasing full matches on YouTube. It was just a taste of what to expect!

I don't have enough free time to watch even 1% of this stuff, but of course I'll pay for it anyway. The current PPVs by themselves are worth the price.

I might dedicate a few hours a week to watch at least one WWE/WCW PPV a week and work my way down the years and decades in chronological order.

I really hope how they aren't technical issues at launch, but there probably will be. Hopefully the guys at MLB.TV know what they're doing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm far too much of a wrestling nutjob to where I own so much content offered by WWF/WWE that the option of the network isn't enticing. Not going to pay money for modern day mediocre PPVs I have no interest in seeing either. Especially when I can pirate for free & skip the junk that I don't want to see.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm just gonna sub to the network so I can see EVERY KURT ANGLE MATCH I've ever missed. :usangle


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A slave to punishment, ladies and gentlemen. :hayley1


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I enjoy a good moonsault or seven.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We all got out guilty pleasures. I like John Zandig death matches where he feels the need to shout incoherently after every power move he hits.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

my guilty pleasure is people no selling offense that is terrible instead of trying to make it look good.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WWE Network seems pretty crappy if they don't add a lot of ECW/WCW stuff.



> We all got out guilty pleasures. I like John Zandig death matches where he feels the need to shout incoherently after every power move he hits.


This match was hilarious haha.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Edit: Just read the Network isn't available internationally. Fuck you.

XWT is still my best friend, then.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Been watching this for the last couple of days and just got done watching it, so here are the matches with snowflake ratings. 











*WWE Brock Lesnar: Here Comes The Pain (Collector’s Edition) DVD*

Brock Lesnar vs. Leviathan - *2/4 / *****
Ohio Valley Wrestling 28th September, 2001

OVW Southern Tag Team Championship Match
Rico Constantino & Prototype vs. The Minnesota Stretching Crew - *1/4 / *****
Ohio Valley Wrestling 10th November, 2001

Jeff Hardy vs. Brock Lesnar - ** / *****
Backlash 21st April, 2002

King of the Ring Finals
Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar - **1/4 / *****
King of the Ring 23rd June, 2002

Rob Van Dam & ‘Nature Boy’ Ric Flair vs. Undertaker & Brock Lesnar - **3/4 / *****
Raw 15th July, 2002

#1 Contender Match for the WWE Undisputed Championship
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Brock Lesnar - **3/4
SmackDown 8th August , 2002

WWE Undisputed Championship Match
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar - ***3/4 / *****
SummerSlam 25th August, 2002

Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton - *2/4 / *****
SmackDown 5th September, 2002

WWE Undisputed Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker - ***3/4 / *****
Unforgiven 22nd September, 2002

Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Championship
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar - ****1/4 / *****
No Mercy 20th October, 2002

Brock Lesnar vs. Team Angle - *3/4 / *****
SmackDown 27th February, 2003

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - **** / *****
WrestleMania XIX 30th March, 2003

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - **3/4 / *****
Backlash 27th April, 2003

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - *** / *****
SmackDown 12th June, 2003

60-Minute Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - ****2/4 / *****
SmackDown 18th September, 2003

Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar - ***2/4 / *****
SmackDown 11th December, 2003

Interpromotional Match
Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar - DUD
WrestleMania XX 14th March, 2004​


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm sure there will be a couple disappointments but it's worth it yearly alone for me since I usually order 3-4 PPVs.


I usually order 2-3 PPV's a year (Rumble and Mania, sometimes Summerslam). I'd probably give a try as it would only be like £6 a month for me. And I could watch it on my Xbox 360 and that would hopefully be just like if I was watching it from my TV. 



FLUX said:


> Edit: Just read the Network isn't available internationally. Fuck you.
> 
> XWT is still my best friend, then.


It isn't available until late 2014/early 2015 for us UK peeps.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Been watching this for the last couple of days and just got done watching it, so here are the matches with snowflake ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


EDITED with my own ratings BCUZ I'm lazy like that and super creative obviously.

Like Choke2Death said, add in the Benoit match, the stretcher match, the Summerslam match with Angle, and a bunch of Lesnar's matches since his comeback while taking out a few obvious shit picks such as his OVW stuff & the Mania match with Angle (probably the most overrated Wrestlemania match ever) and it's one of the GOAT WWE match comps. 

Think I'm going to come off this WWE hiatus soon and watch one of the DVDs I got for Christmas. WAR GAMES perhaps?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RIP Mae Young 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> EDITED with my own ratings BCUZ I'm lazy like that and super creative obviously.
> 
> Like Choke2Death said, add in the Benoit match, the stretcher match, the Summerslam match with Angle, and a bunch of Lesnar's matches since his comeback while taking out a few obvious shit picks such as his OVW stuff & the Mania match with Angle (probably the most overrated Wrestlemania match ever) and it's one of the GOAT WWE match comps.


My changes being made would be removing the OVW shit and the Goldberg match. Replacing them would be those three and I'd add the Punk match to make it complete. Wouldn't remove WM19 because even if it's underwhelming compared to the other two Angle matches, it's still significant for BROCK with it being his first WM and in the main event plus a title win. Cena from ER is an blu-ray exclusive so it's still there.

I would wanna find a spot for Vengeance with RVD too but the Eddie match can stay out since it's already in any Eddie compilation released.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I havent watched them in a while but I remember LOVING the hbk/janetty series. I will say 93 was probably the weakest year for 90s HEARTBREAK

Still not such about the change, I doubt ALL PPVS will be on there, that just to much stuff to have on a site/function. I understand they will add them as they go but still


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH TALK DAMMIT:

Top 5 best:
1 - 1992 (****3/4)
2 - 2002 (****1/2)
3 - 2004 (****1/2)
4 - 2001 (****1/4)
5 - 2007 (****1/4)

Top 5 worst:
1 - 1995 (**1/4)
2 - 1999 (**1/2)
3 - 1993 (**1/2)
4 - 1988 (**1/2)
5 - 2012 (***)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Sheamus/Jericho ending in 2012 is the second best Rumble interaction ever


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF what makes you give the 02 Rumble **** 1/2? I watched it the other day and besides the Taker/Hardys, Taker/Maven interaction and Austin's dominance, it dragged like hell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I also love the 02 Rumble:

Top 10 Rumble matches!

10. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4 (2003)

9. 40 Man Royal Rumble Match - **** (2011)

8. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - **** (1991)

7. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (2007)

6. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (1996)

5. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2001)

4. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (2004)

3. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2002)

2. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2009)

1. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***** (1992)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The overall star power, the beggining with Rikishi I found just fun as hell, Austin meeting HHH and HURRICANE (c'mon... HURRICANE), all the stuff you mentioned, CURT HENNIG... to me there was a lot to love about 02.

And yes, the 2012 ending was sweet, as was Kharma, Ricardo and Socko vs. Cobra. That was all I liked, and that was , outside of the ending of course, only minor stuff downgraded by the obvious flaws in the match.

EDIT: I really don't think 2009 is anywhere close to being that good of a Rumble (***3/4 myself), though I already know Cal's opinion on it and it IS his own opinion, so yeah. On my side, I find 2010 really underrated.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

no love for the 2005 one


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't remember a single good thing about the 2002 or 2009 Rumble.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Sheamus/Jericho ending in 2012 is the second best Rumble interaction ever


Hell yeah. Sheamus and Jericho put on a good show. I love it when the last two men in the Rumble have a small match at the end. It's only really happened twice as far as I know. 2012 and 2007 between Undertaker & Shawn Michaels.

This year, it should come down to CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan. I'm not the biggest fan of both guys, but they're easily the favorites to win and it would be a good encounter to end the Rumble.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Been watching this for the last couple of days and just got done watching it, so here are the matches with snowflake ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saw this and thought you had rated every match 5 stars.

:brock


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Genuinely rating matches as 2/4's too? Interesting concept.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I was watching a few of my favorite matches from 2006 the past couple of days, and decided to do my top 20 2006 matches 

1- Mick Foley and Edge vs Terry Funk and Tommy Dreamer ECW ONS

2- Kurt Angle vs Undertaker NWO 

3- Armageddon 4-way tag team ladder match 

4- Edge vs John Cena TLC Unforgiven

5- Chris Benoit vs Finlay Judgment Day

6- Kurt Angle vs Rey Misterio SD June

7- Edge vs Mick Foley Hardcore WM 

8- Finlay vs Benoit from SD November

9- Triple H vs John Cena vs Edge Backlash

10- Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit No Holds Barred 

11- Edge vs Ric Flair TLC RAW

12- Nitro vs Shelton vs Carlito Vengeance 

13- William Regal vs Chris Benoit No Mercy

14- MITB WM 

15- Edge vs Cena SummerSlam

16- Ric Flair vs Mick Foley I Quit Summerslam 

17- Edge vs RVD Vengeance 

18- Jeff Hardy vs Nitro Ladder RAW

19- Trish vs Lita Unforgiven 

20- Rey vs Angle vs Orton WM


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

2006 was a pretty shitty year for "CLASSICS" (farcry from 2005) but had a couple good ones. Both benoit/orton smackdowns would be at the top of my list. Will never get the love for angle/taker


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm shocked that you didn't put Orton/Mysterio on that list. Both of their matches were great, although the Smackdown match is overrated to all hell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2006 was a VERY strong year just from SD alone. Raw had some good stuff, WWE ECW got a couple out too, and then they made up for a lack of true "classics" by having a ton of good-great matches every single week. :mark: SD 06. Love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm shocked that you didn't put Orton/Mysterio on that list. Both of their matches were great, although the Smackdown match is overrated to all hell.


the one from NWO? I liked the match , it was a bit slow at first but it did pick up, I actually think Carlito/Orton had two great matches as well, maybe on the level of the Rey/Orton matches..but Rey's best match was with Angle and Orton with Benoit that year IMO


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> 2006 was a VERY strong year just from SD alone. Raw had some good stuff, WWE ECW got a couple out too, and then they made up for a lack of true "classics" by having a ton of good-great matches every single week. :mark: SD 06. Love it love it love it love it love it love it love it love it.


2006 is pretty underrated. There were some crappy stuff throughout but the good made up for it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> RIP Mae Young
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


She is back with Moohlah now 



> I don't remember a single good thing about the 2002 or 2009 Rumble.


The Rumble match or the show?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 is only underrated when I'm not around to stick up for it .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

2006 was an incredibly fun year, a lot of different stuff happened.

You had the return of ECW as well as WWE putting over a bunch of new talent.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The 2010 Rumble sucks.

2006 is a great year for great matches. Blows 2005 out of the water. What's so good about 2005? It has three great Rey/Eddies, Eddie/Benoit, Hardy/Edge cage, Trip/Flair cage, MNM/Rey & Batista.....um.....OK most love Trip/Batista and Cena/JBL. I don't but w/e. I can't think of any other excellent matches, and some of those are borderline anyway. 06 has two Angle/Takers, three Benoit/Finlays, two Benoit/Regals, two Rey/Ortons, Rey/JBL, Rey/Henry, two Finlay/Reys, HHH/Big Show, Benoit/Orton, Taker/Henry (GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME).....I'm forgetting a bunch. I think there's only one real 'classic' from each year, but 'classic' tends to mean something different to me than it does other people.

---------------------linelinelinelineline

Actually fuck it, I'm going to ask because I've always been curious- what's a 'classic' to people? A lot of people seem to have their own interpretation and it's neat and interesting. I've always thought of 'classic' as an almost all-time great-level match. One that you might not even see in an entire one year span. Other than of course years like 1985 or 1997 where wrestling when 'fuck it let's overload'. I don't feel like a match is a classic unless it's truly in one of the top tiers. Like, I might have fifteen matches MAX in WWE history I'd feel comfortable calling a real classic, and even that is maixmum and feels like almost too many.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Actually fuck it, I'm going to ask because I've always been curious- what's a 'classic' to people? A lot of people seem to have their own interpretation and it's neat and interesting. I've always thought of 'classic' as an almost all-time great-level match. One that you might not even see in an entire one year span. Other than of course years like 1985 or 1997 where wrestling when 'fuck it let's overload'. I don't feel like a match is a classic unless it's truly in one of the top tiers. Like, I might have fifteen matches MAX in WWE history I'd feel comfortable calling a real classic, and even that is maixmum and feels like almost too many.


Name 'em. I'm curious.

Also, was that MNM vs. Batista & Rey match the one that was on a random Smackdown for the tag team titles?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All the Orton/Taker matches from 2005. <3

Not to forget Elimination Chamber, MITB, Jericho/Cena, Benoit/HHH, Christian/Benoit, Orton/Christian, Angle/HBK (Vengeance at least) and a shitload more I cba to mention.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

To me a Classic is pretty much a very highly praised match, if we are talking * was it is ****1/2 +. A highly famous notrous match that is very good



Its almost like the always asked question "What is a ***** match ?" IMO alot going into that


Edit: never said 2006 was bad, just said its doesnt have that match "all-time great match" in it. for your 2005 refute, IDC what most think, I will take flair/hhh LMS to the grave tied for MOTY for me w/ hhh/batista


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd gladly let you take Flair/HHH LMS to your grave. Gets it the fuck out of my life for good .


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't remember a single good thing about the 2002 or 2009 Rumble.


2009 was the last great one imo. Even though Orton winning and Triple H as runner-up was there with the most predictable outcomes ever.

WTF at Mike Knox lasting 32 minutes and JTG 12 :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Name 'em. I'm curious.
> 
> Also, was that MNM vs. Batista & Rey match the one that was on a random Smackdown for the tag team titles?


there are two (at least I guess, could be more IDK THEIR CAGE IN 06 SUCKS BTW) MNM/ReyBatistas, 12/16 and 12/30, I mean the latter. 

Classics:

Watched them kinda recently (2013) so I feel comfortable saying they are classic:
Eddie/Rey 6/23/05
Finlay/Benoit JD06

Haven't seen them in awhile but I feel comfortable still calling them classic:
Savage/Steamboat WM3
Hart/Austin WM13
Hart/Hart WMX
Backlund/Valentine 2/19/79 
Slaughter/Sheik 6/16/84
Michaels/Mankind IYH10

Haven't seen them in a while but maybe they're classic/still classic on another watch (I'm sure some definitely will be):
Backlund/Patera 5/19/80
Austin/Hart SS96
Hart/Hennig KOTR93
Taker/Michaels IYH18
Slaughter/Backlund 3/21/81
Slaughter/Backlund 1/10/81
Cena/Lesnar EX12
Cena/Punk MITB11 (IDK about this one, I didn't think it was anywhere truly near classic on first watch, but I feel obligated to list it here and give it another shot)
Backlund/Adonis 1/18/82

Maybes/IDKs/borderlines/likely not but close:
Rock/Austin WM17
Eddie/JBL JD04
Flair/Savage WM8
Cena/Umaga RR07 

I don't get it but people seem to and I want to give it another shot:
Savage/Warrior WM7


Without to much thought into it. So I'd really count the first two categories, which is like eight matches. Altogether everything I mentioned goes above 20, but I will say with complete honesty there is no way in hell I'd consider all of those classics. Still, me saying 15 maximum was possibly underestimating. Not definitely, but possibly.




Choke2Death said:


> All the Orton/Taker matches from 2005. <3
> 
> Not to forget Elimination Chamber, MITB, Jericho/Cena, Benoit/HHH, Christian/Benoit, Orton/Christian, Angle/HBK (Vengeance at least) and a shitload more I cba to mention.


Haven't seen an Orton/Taker I thought was really great. I don't remember Jericho/Cena being much. I don;t like ECs or MITBs (those are good ones, but yeah, don;t love them). Angle/Michaels blows. I should have mentioned Angle/Jannetty because that is super. Unsure I've seen the Christian matches, actually.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Classics:
> 
> Watched them kinda recently (2013) so I feel comfortable saying they are classic:
> Eddie/Rey 6/23/05


Do you know if that one is on any of Rey or Eddie's DVDs? I can look it up, but I figured I'd ask here first, in case you knew off the top of your head.

You seem to have eclectic taste.

Could you post the WCW matches that you consider to be classics, please?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Do you know if that one is on any of Rey or Eddie's DVDs? I can look it up, but I figured I'd ask here first, in case you knew off the top of your head.
> please?


I'm sure its on the Smackdown 15th year Anniversary Set.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> I'm sure its on the Smackdown 15th year Anniversary Set.


I just checked, and that's a 9/9/05 match between them. Well, while we're at it, how was that match?


@ rep (if you're reading this) - I was waiting because I wanted to be able to formulate my thoughts better, but what the hell, since I'm already here. Yes, my instinctive reaction upon watching HBK/Taker WM26 was that it was the best match in WWE history. Don't know how that would hold up, because I haven't re-watched many of the "classics" in awhile, and there are still a few well-regarded matches that I haven't seen. Still, I'm fairly certain that it would remain in the very upper echelon of top matches, at the _very_ least.

Someone said to me that most people consider WM25 better, and many have said that on this board, but I disagree. By a lot, too. I felt WM26 moved and breathed more, it felt more organic, less cluttered, etc., etc. I felt that with WM25 they were trying to make it as epic as possible, whereas WM26 felt less rehearsed to me.

It had everything in a match you could possibly want EVER. I guess the only downside is that it took a little while to build, but I don't care, because once it got great, it was the top of the tops.

I also wish to God I had watched it live, and therefore didn't know the outcome. I think it's the one streak match that genuinely would have seemed really suspenseful to me. You don't think they'd ever end the streak, but then again, Taker already beat Shawn in what was considered to be a huge match. So what better way for him to go out (in his mind, maybe) than putting Shawn over? Especially with Shawn putting his career on the line.

I don't know how the build up was, obviously, but I think it's the one match that I could have bought into the Undertaker losing...thus making the match that much more exciting. Especially since they played on it beautifully. 

When Shawn reversed the Hells Gate into a pinning combination, I'm certain that that near fall would have gotten me, had I been watching that live.

The drama at the end was just lovely, and they didn't overdo it. That's what I loved about the match so much. They let each moment hold significance. I've seen people call WM26 a rehash and a finisher fest, and I'm like "what?" Just couldn't disagree more. I thought it was so beautifully structured, and they realized the importance of letting the big moments just stand on their own. 


Yeah, definitely *****.


You can respond to me by PM if you have anything to say, if you prefer, but I figured I'd just write it here since I'm here anyway.

Am curious about your thoughts about Angle/HBK WM21. Thought it was fab, thread be damned. Didn't see the validity of any of the typical complaints in that match, so I dunno what the problem is, but I thought it was top-notch.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Do you know if that one is on any of Rey or Eddie's DVDs? I can look it up, but I figured I'd ask here first, in case you knew off the top of your head.


It's on Youtube:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I also have 26 > 25 but you can really flip a coin on them if you will, both ***** and GOATC


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its actually on Rey's Biggest Little Man Set  Should have remembered as its one of the GOAT DVD Sets.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> It's on Youtube


Thanks, but the reason I was curious about the DVDS was because I have 'em, and prefer not to watch on my computer when possible. 

While you're here, just wanted to let you know that I've been reading your old reviews after going through some Edge matches. Seems we're in sync regarding the hair vs. hair match.




Clint Eastwood said:


> Its actually on Rey's Biggest Little Man Set  Should have remembered as its one of the GOAT DVD Sets.


Perfect, thank you!




SKINS25 said:


> I also have 26 > 25


(Y)

lmao @ "GOATC." That's a new one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Between the 2 Rey and 2 Eddie sets you basically get all their matches together bar the first one from 05 I think. That's worth seeing, anyway. They had like a billion in WCW but most were short TV matches.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Rey-Eddie from June 05 is not on any of their DVDs.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Between the 2 Rey and 2 Eddie sets you basically get all their matches together bar the first one from 05 I think. That's worth seeing, anyway. They had like a billion in WCW but most were short TV matches.


There are two Eddie DVDs?! 




Jbardo said:


> Rey-Eddie from June 05 is not on any of their DVDs.


Leave it to Yeah1993 to pick one that wasn't released. :StephenA

I was all excited that I had one of the Slaughter matches too....until I released that I didn't. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it's on A DVD set because I own it. Close enough to all of them on their sets alone .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> There are two Eddie DVDs?!


Yep. This is the other one that isn't viva La Raza:

http://www.amazon.com/Cheating-Death-Stealing-Life-Guerrero/dp/B00028G6OE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are also technically... 4 Mysterio sets too I think? With another planned for this year I believe. 2 3 disc sets, then the shitty kinda kayfabe documentary 1 discer I think it was, and then I *think* he got one of those "superstar" set releases that they did not too long ago. I got the Bryan one.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yep. This is the other one that isn't viva La Raza:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cheating-Death-Stealing-Life-Guerrero/dp/B00028G6OE


Thank the Lord the other one was only $4. That's good enough, as it seems to have a bunch of the good stuff on there. 

While we're on the subject of Eddie, 'skins, the match you gave ***** was Eddie vs. JBL at Judgment Day, correct?

I swear I thought you said something about the steel cage match at one point too. Did you?




King Cal said:


> There are also technically... 4 Mysterio sets too I think? With another planned for this year I believe. 2 3 disc sets, then the shitty kinda kayfabe documentary 1 discer I think it was, and then I *think* he got one of those "superstar" set releases that they did not too long ago. I got the Bryan one.


Yeah, Rey does have one of those Superstar discs. The listing on the Bryan one looked so horrible to me. Why not include the matches with Ziggler and Punk, etc., since he doesn't have a full DVD out of his own? Well, I probably just answered my own question. They're saving it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mysterio 619 was the other DVD released some years ago now:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/WWE-Rey-Mys...d=1389310655&sr=8-1&keywords=rey+mysterio+619


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love the Bryan match listings. Only match that shouldn't have been on because it sucks is the RR triple threat.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I prefer HBK/Taker from WrestleMania 26 as well.



LilOlMe said:


> Thanks, but the reason I was curious about the DVDS was because I have 'em, and prefer not to watch on my computer when possible.


Fair enough. It's just if someone's looking for a match in here I can usually find it for them on YouTube or Dailymotion. (Y)


LilOlMe said:


> While you're here, just wanted to let you know that I've been reading your old reviews after going through some Edge matches. Seems we're in sync regarding the hair vs. hair match..


I was wondering when you were going to get around to watching/reviewing some of those matches ever since I sent you that PM. Good thing that PM didn't go to waste then. 

Edge/Angle series from 2002 is good stuff and it some of Edge's most underrated work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Mysterio 619 was the other DVD released some years ago now:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/WWE-Rey-Mys...d=1389310655&sr=8-1&keywords=rey+mysterio+619


Aye that's the shitty 1 disc one I mentioned. When I clicked that I noticed ANOTHER Mysterio set, one of the SV exclusive releases. So that's 5 lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You can never have enough Rey


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So with the WWE network coming does this mean that all DVD sets they release will be on the network? Because if so, I won't have to buy DVD's :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> I was wondering when you were going to get around to watching/reviewing some of those matches ever since I sent you that PM. Good thing that PM didn't go to waste then.
> 
> Edge/Angle series from 2002 is very consistent and it some of Edge's most underrated work.


Definitely not. The reason I haven't said anything is because the matches I've watched haven't been the ones you've reviewed, for the most part ('cept for the Hogan tag and the Angle matches...though, still haven't seen KoTR). I haven't even gotten to the really heralded stuff yet, like the matches with Hardy, Cena, Foley, and One Night Stand, etc. Excited to, because Edge has definitely been one of the guys who stood out to me, from the time period I stopped watching wrestling. 

I wrote more here.

I've liked most everything I've seen, just haven't had much to say, other than about the hair vs. hair match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Do you know if that one is on any of Rey or Eddie's DVDs? I can look it up, but I figured I'd ask here first, in case you knew off the top of your head.
> 
> You seem to have eclectic taste.
> 
> Could you post the WCW matches that you consider to be classics, please?


Rey/Eddie (my favourite match of all time, fwiw, any country, any time period, anything) is on Biggest Little Man.  Which is probably the best WWE release of all time.

WCW ('WCW' can mean a lot of things, but I'll count from 11/24/88 because that's what we lameasses did for the WCW list):

Definite (I've watched like nothing recently):
Flair/Steamboat Clash6
Flair/Steamboat WrestleWar
Flair/Steamboat Chi-Town
Flair/Steamboat 3/18/89 (Landover, not Philly)
Rey/Eddie Havoc97
Rude/Steamboat Beach Blast 92
Vader/Sting SuperBrawl 3
Flair/Funk Clash 9

Maybes/re-watches:
WarGames 92 
Sting/Vader GAB92 
Finlay/Regal Uncensored 96
Arn/Zbyszko/Eaton v. Dustin/Steamboat/Koloff 5/23/92
Flair/Luger SC88
Steiners/MVC Clash 19

Might be more. I went by my WCW 100 and there's no way in hell that I'd make the same list today. Flair/Funk GAB89, RNR/MX WrestleWar, Vader/Rhodes Clash twenty-something, etc could be on there. Well probably not Vader/Rhodes, but it's my favourite WCW match of all time and probably one of my desert island top ten so I feel like I should mention it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Definitely not. The reason I haven't said anything is because the matches I've watched haven't been the ones you've reviewed, for the most part ('cept for the Hogan tag and the Angle matches...though, still haven't seen KoTR). I haven't even gotten to the really heralded stuff yet, like the matches with Hardy, Cena, Foley, and One Night Stand, etc. Excited to, because Edge has definitely been one of the guys who stood out to me, from the time period I stopped watching wrestling.
> 
> I wrote more here.
> 
> I've liked most everything I've seen, just haven't had much to say, other than about the hair vs. hair match.


Yeah, I never finished my Edge match project so I didn't review everything. :side: His feud with Hardy is arguably Edge's best feud, every match they had in 2005 was good with their steel cage at Unforgiven being brilliant. His match against Foley at WrestleMania was great, as was the One Night Stand match where he teamed with Foley. Matches with Cena were a mixed bag, some are good, others not so good, but I loved their feud. But it seems you're mostly saving the best for last if you haven't seen any of these matches yet. (Y)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Yes, exactly.



Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Eddie (my favourite match of all time, fwiw, any country, any time period, anything) is on Biggest Little Man.  Which is probably the best WWE release of all time.


Ok, it's a Smackdown match, and I just made sure. It is on that DVD. I think the reason why the other poster thought it wasn't, is because for some reason, it's not listed as being on there on the write-ups on amazon.com.

Pretty high praise from you. I'm gonna watch this match some time this weekend (and same with the Batista/Orton match, C2D. I haven't forgotten!).





> WCW ('WCW' can mean a lot of things, but I'll count from 11/24/88 because that's what we lameasses did for the WCW list):
> 
> Definite (I've watched like nothing recently):
> Flair/Steamboat Clash6
> ...


The Rude/Steamboat match is one I've always wanted to see. I'm gonna make some time for it soon.

I've been making a concerted effort to try to get into Flair...once again. Doesn't help that some of the first stuff I watched recently were his matches with Hogan in WCW. :lmao that steel cage match. It really is amazing how Hogan just brought his bullshit right on over to WCW (Brutus Beefcake, Mr. T., etc.). Re-living the 80s for no damn reason.

It's just funny watching it, when I also watched some Sting vs. Flair stuff. That seemed so much fresher, and the crowds just adored Sting.

Anywhoo, I'm pretty sure I'm going to like the Funk stuff. Been saving that on purpose.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

He is referring to the 6/05 smackdown match Liolme, the other doesnt exist


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This Eddie/Malenko set on HighSpots is wonderful. I highly recommend it. The Eddie/Punk match is on the IWA Mid South Punk set too. Disc 2 of the 6 disc set I believe and you can purchase discs individually. Pretty sure Eddie/Punk/Rey is on one of those discs as well. 

They have a couple Eddie in Japan sets as well that I'd like to get at some point. 

http://www.highspots.com/p/26345.html


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Meltzer gave that Hogan/Flair cage match **** 1/4. :lmao That's why I watched it! 

His Flair fanboyism knows no bounds. Though I guess we're all probably guilty of being more lenient toward matches involving people we're big fans of. Weird thing is, he only gave the Flair/HBK retirement match *** 1/2. He's so confuddling sometimes.



SKINS25 said:


> He is referring to the 6/05 smackdown match Liolme, *the other doesnt exist*


 Not sure what you're referring to here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hogan/Flair WCW matches were great (the first few). Cage rules.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hogan/Flair Cage match is one of the worst matches I've ever seen. Hogan also managed to have really bad matches with Vader. Now how does that make sense? :aries2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Meltzer gave that Hogan/Flair cage match **** 1/4. :lmao That's why I watched it!
> 
> His Flair fanboyism knows no bounds. Though I guess we're all probably guilty of being more lenient toward matches involving people we're big fans of. Weird thing is, he only gave the Flair/HBK retirement match *** 1/2. He's so confuddling sometimes.
> 
> ...


I apologize, the 9/9/05 is the steel cage match between them, I dont keep track of dates

Hogan/flair Cage is pretty good, and hbk/flair is only my favorite match of all time

if you need :flair3 stuff, let me know


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I loved that cage match a few years ago. Lord knows what I'll think of it now, but I'm pretty positive I wouldn't hate it. I'm fairly confident BATB is still really good, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There aren't _that_ many Eddie vs Mysterio matches in WCW like how one may believe. A good amount just came peppered in late 1997 that I think most assume it to be the case.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just did a list where I decided my MOTY's since 1997

1997: Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker HIAC
1998: Austin vs Dude Love(OTE)
1999: Foley/Rock I quit match 
2000: Triple H vs Cactus Jack street fight( Foley is a fucking god!) 
2001: Austin/Angle SS
2002: Lesnar/Taker HIAC
2003: Steve Austin vs the rock
2004: Benoit vs Triple H vs HBK(WM)
2005: Triple H vs Batista HIAC
2006: Its The ECW ONS tag ATM, but so much needs to be seen, count this as N/A
2007: Batista vs The Undertaker(WM)
2008: n/a( haven't seen to much at all)
2009: HBK/Taker
2010: HBK/Taker
2011: Punk/Cena MITB
2012: Lesnar/Cena
2013: Lesnar/Punk 

Thoughts?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2004 should be Eddie vs JBL from Judgment Day. :side:

We're in agreement w/a good portion of others. _(1998, 2001, 2002, 2011 - 2013)_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

is your MOTY in 2010 NOT HBK/Taker? If so, would love to know other matches from that year that stick out 

same with 2009 really, but could see stuff like Christian/Regal and Christian/Swagger beating it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1997: Taker vs HBK - Bad Blood
1998: Austin vs Dude Love - OTE
1999: Foley vs ROCK - Rumble
2000: Benoit vs ROCK - Fully Loaded
2001: Austin vs ROCK - WM17
2002: Taker vs Brock - HIAC
2003: Brock vs Angle - SummerSlam
2004: Benoit vs HHH vs HBK - WM20
2005: Batista vs HHH - Vengeance
2006: Angle vs Taker - NWO
2007: Batista vs Taker - WM23
2008: Taker vs Edge - HIAC
2009: HBK vs Taker - WM25
2010: HBK vs Taker - WM26
2011: Orton vs Christian - OTL
2012: Brock vs Cena - ER
2013: Brock vs Punk - SS

:lelbrock with all the MOTYs for every year 'cept 2004. (for which he has the excellent Eddie match near the top too).

Watching WM13 now. lol @ SULTAN, what the fuck is this gimmick? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> is your MOTY in 2010 NOT HBK/Taker? If so, would love to know other matches from that year that stick out
> 
> same with 2009 really, but could see stuff like Christian/Regal and Christian/Swagger beating it


2010:

Sheamus vs Morrison - TLC
Chris Masters vs Dolph Ziggler - Superstars 5/13
Drew McIntyre vs Chris Masters - Superstars 8/26
Drew McIntyre vs Christian - Smackdown 7/16, 7/30, 8/20, & 9/3
Christian & Kane vs William Regal & Ezekial Jackson - ECW 1/26


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ehh why not ; ONLY ONCE :lol

1997 hbk/taker HIAC
1998 scsa/foley otl
1999 N/A
2000 hhh/foley rumble
2001 scsa/angle summerslam
2002 brock/taker HIAC
2003 WGTT vs. eddie/tajri
2004 eddie/jbl jd
2005 tied eddie/rey - flair/hhh LMS
2006 benoit/orton sd best of 7
2007 hbk/cena mania
2008 hbk/flair mania
2009 hbk/taker mania I
2010 hbk/taker mania II
2011 punk/cena mitb
2012 cena/lesnar er
2013 punk/lesnar summerslam



Edit: those masters matches from 2010 :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins I'm liking your pick for 2003. Which one is it?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretty sure its the 5/22/03 one

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiu3wp_wgtt-vs-eddie-and-tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport


I'm almost positive you have seen it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have. Was curious as to which of the three (not counting the ladder match) it was. I should watch it right now. Slightly recall the 5/29 match more than 5/22.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm pretty sure its the 5/22 one,I remember knowing the difference as eddie had silver and GREEN tights on. I know its between the two mays, the ladderand july match were decent as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched. :banderas

Scary epic levels of good. 2003 is such a tough year when it comes to only pimping "one" match as my favorite/"MOTY". Smackdown was killer on both PPV & TV that there are numerous within close margins.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I love how Cody sees a match being mentioned and goes 'I haven't seen that in a month, I'mma watch it right now'.

WWE MOTY for me is Angle/Taker. Lesnar/Benoit gets #2 and that tag is #3. All from SD. I don't even know what PPV MOTY is. Rock/Austin is damn good but the middle bored me and if that's PPV MOTY then I don't like the year very much (I actually kinda hate a lot of it...WHA/EVAH). I gotta watch those Rey/Kidman tags because I'm not entirely sure I've seen even one. Wait, there are Rey/Tajiris. No Mercy might be PPV MOTY for me. 9/23/03 might be as good and maybe top 5 of the year. I'm not content saying most of this and it is all nonsense, IGNORE ME. I definitely have that top 3 though. Lock it in.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Same w/ me as well, it was the only year i hard trouble w/ on that list. Its funny because if you asked me a couple years ago I would have said SHAWN MICHAELS VS CHRIS JERICHO MANIA ! with no hesitation. There is quite a few to choose from

Edit: ^^^ Damn I forgot about taker/angle (love this one, dont the 2006 ones) another to throw in


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I love how Cody sees a match being mentioned and goes 'I haven't seen that in a month, I'mma watch it right now'.
> 
> WWE MOTY for me is Angle/Taker. Lesnar/Benoit gets #2 and that tag is #3. All from SD. I don't even know what PPV MOTY is. Rock/Austin is damn good but the middle bored me and if that's PPV MOTY then I don't like the year very much (I actually kinda hate a lot of it...WHA/EVAH). I gotta watch those Rey/Kidman tags because I'm not entirely sure I've seen even one. Wait, there are Rey/Tajiris. No Mercy might be PPV MOTY for me. 9/23/03 might be as good and maybe top 5 of the year. I'm not content saying most of this and it is all nonsense, IGNORE ME. I definitely have that top 3 though. Lock it in.


Did you see the Tajiri/Kidman match from Smackdown 10/2/03? That's a match that completely flies under the radar along with Benoit/Hardy from Smackdown 7/17/03.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

"YOU'RE NOT EVEN A REAL JOURNALISM" :lmao

Fandango Zoolander is awesome.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

He went full on rapist with that voice, also. "Not even a real journalism." :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Irrelevant said:


> Did you see the Tajiri/Kidman match from Smackdown 10/2/03? That's a match that completely flies under the radar along with Benoit/Hardy from Smackdown 7/17/03.


Don't remember it, I'll keep it in mind (w/ Benoit/Hardy). (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Under the impression anything w/Tajiri in 2003 is worth the watch. That's awful. Everything always is. I mean "worth the watch b/c he arguably MVP of 2003". Only match that wasn't as excellent as it should have been was the United States championship match vs Eddie. Recall it being only about a fraction of what it should have been. All his rest, hnngg.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

TAJIRI. :mark: :mark: I always marked for fellow Asians in WWE. 

With people listing Brock vs. Taker from NM02 as their MOTY for that year, I should probably watch it considering I've only seen it once, and that was when it happened. I remember Undertaker wearing a cast and Paul Heyman blading...I think. I'll just wait for the NETWORK. :kobe3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one that thinks that Eddie/JBL JD, regardless of how beautiful storytelling it displayed, only barely scratches Top 5 matches of the year for 04? :side:

I have both HHH/Benoit/HBK, Orton/Foley, and Lesnar/Eddie all over it personally.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eddie/JBL smokes anything else from the entire country of the US in 2004.


yeah you're probably alone.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I'd rank it

1997 : Bret/Austin WM
1998 : Foley/Taker HIAC
1999 : Edge and Christian vs Hardys ladder
2000 : HHH/Y2J LMS
2001 : TLC II
2002 : Rey/Edge vs Angle/Benoit No Mercy 
2003 : Benoit/Angle RR
2004 : HBK/Benoit/HHH WM 
2005 : Hardy/Edge Cage
2006 : ECW ONS tag
2007 : HBK/Cena RAW
2008 : Edge/Taker HIAC
2009 : HBK/Taker 
2010 : HBK/Taker
2011 : Punk/Cena MITB
2012 : Bryan/Punk OTL 
2013 : Daniel Bryan vs Cena SS 



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one that thinks that Eddie/JBL JD, regardless of how beautiful storytelling it displayed, only barely scratches Top 5 matches of the year for 04? :side:
> 
> I have both HHH/Benoit/HBK, Orton/Foley, and Lesnar/Eddie all over it personally.


I've posted the same recently.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Eddie (my favourite match of all time, fwiw, any country, any time period, anything) is on Biggest Little Man.  Which is probably the best WWE release of all time.



I have watched this dvd through twice and dont recall seeing Rey v Eddie from June 05 on there, only Judgement Day 2005.


Also MOTY`s

1997 - Shawn Michaels v Undertaker, Hell in a Cell
1998 - Stone Cold v Dude Love, OTE
1999 - The Rock v Mankind, Royal Rumble
2000 - HHH v Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble
2001 - Kurt Angle v Stone Cold, Summerslam 
2002 - HHH v HBK, Summerslam
2003 - Kurt Angle v Brock Lesner, Iron Man match
2004 - HBK v HHH v Benoit, Wrestlemania
2005 - Batista v HHH, Hell in a Cell
2006 - ECW ONS tag
2007 - Shawn Michaels v John Cena, Raw in London
2008 - HBK v Chris Jericho, No Mercy
2009 - Undertaker v HBK, Wrestlemania
2010 - Undertaker v HBK - Wrestlemania
2011 - Cm Punk v John Cena, MITB
2012 - Cm Punk v Daniel Bryan, Over the Limit
2013 - Cm Punk v Brock Lesner, Summerslam


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I used to put the DVD in twice a week just to watch the match. It's on there right after Judgment Day.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll start from 99 seeing as I've yet to watch much from 97/98. Think it's safe to say HBK/Taker wins for 97, though.

1999: Kane and X-Pac vs. Big Show and The Undertaker - Summerslam
2000: Texas 10 Man
2001: Benoit vs. Austin on Smackdown (need to revisit the whole of 01)
2002: Lesnar vs. Taker - HIAC
2003: Benoit vs. Brock 
3004: JBL vs. Eddie - Judgement Day
2005: Eddie vs. Rey - June, Smackdown
2006: Orton vs. Rey - post Mania Smackdown
2007: Taker vs. Batista at Wrestlemania or Finlay vs. Hardy 6/22
2008: Not a clue
2009: Swagger vs. Christian 2/24
2010: Morrison vs. Sheamus - TLC
2011: Punk/Cena MITB or Ambrose/Rollins 30 Minute blowoff
2012: Cena vs. Brock closely followed by Ambrose vs. Regal II 
2013: Punk vs. Taker

Ambrose involved in two #2 MOTYs yet people say he isn't great unk3 

Yeah, not a big fan of the Taker/HBK WM 25 and 26 as most.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> 2011: Ambrose/Rollins 30 Minute blowoff


Ill have to watch this soon. I started to watch it on YT but the connection was crap, but i do have a 'Ambrose In FCW' comp so ill have to see it the weekend. Thanks 



King Cal said:


> Hogan/Flair WCW matches were great (the first few). Cage rules.


Never seen any Hogan/Flair matches in WCW. Which are the ones worth watching?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Never seen any Hogan/Flair matches in WCW. Which are the ones worth watching?


I personally wouldn't say any of their matches are "great" like Sting/Vader great or Steiners/MVC great but the Halloween Havoc '94 is Flair and Hogan's most entertaining match together in WCW. Definitely worth a watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I personally wouldn't say any of their matches are "great" like Sting/Vader great or Steiners/MVC great but the Halloween Havoc '94 is Flair and Hogan's most entertaining match together in WCW. Definitely worth a watch.


Thanks very much. Ill start with that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Eddie/JBL featured one of the strongest babyface performances I've ever seen, the nastiest chair shot ever, and JBL ruled the world too, but I found the DQ finish a little bit of a missed opportunity. Sorry but I just didn't felt that ending, I think that a DQ for a war like that would be fitting but I'd do something like what happened with Rated RKO/DX @ NYR '07, the face repeatedly beating the crap out of the heel with a chair, and maybe a announce table Frog Splash (considering Eddie could do it). Yes it's a spotty ending, but it'd work perfectly for this situation. And yes, Eddie did DQ himself with the title belt and had a beatdown afterwards, but I just didn't thought that was a strong enough finish given the match. Still, to each his own. Also, there are some on the Internet that don't even have it on their Top 10 of 04 so consider my case a strong one .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, people on the internet. The fuck do they know?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People in Brazilian internet apparently knew of Schumacher's death already, way too much in advance actually 8*D


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

So guys. With the WWE Network. Should I feel silly for dropping so much cash on previous PPV DVD's lately?


----------



## captainzombie (Oct 21, 2013)

Hag said:


> So guys. With the WWE Network. Should I feel silly for dropping so much cash on previous PPV DVD's lately?


No, because if your subscription ever lapses you can fall back on the DVD's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus if your internet fucks up, always handy to have the actual DVD. Or if the Network crashes, fucks up, has technical issues etc.

Having immediate access online is great, but I'll never switch over to it fully. I'll still buy stuff I really want. Kinda. I hope having everything on the Network for such a cheap price will FORCE fremantle to stop being greedy cunts and put their DVD's and Blurays at a fucking good price. Plenty of sets I'd LIKE to own, but refuse to pay fucking £22 for.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

1997 : Bret/Austin WM13
1998 : Taker/Kane WM14
1999 : Taker/Austin FL 
2000 : HHH/Foley RR 
2001 : Austin/Angle SS 
2002 : Taker/Lesnar NM 
2003 : Benoit/Angle RR
2004 : Eddie/JBL JD
2005 : Batista/HHH Vengeance 
2006 : Taker/Angle NWO
2007 : Taker/Batista WM23
2008 : Taker/Edge SS
2009 : Taker/HBK WM25
2010 : Taker/HBK WM26
2011 : Punk/Cena MITB
2012 : Punk/Bryan OTL
2013 : Punk/Lesnar SS


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I used to put the DVD in twice a week just to watch the match. It's on there right after Judgment Day.


Just had a look at a few sites and it appears some have that match and others dont, not sure if it was a US exclusive or something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jbardo said:


> Just had a look at a few sites and it appears some have that match and others dont, not sure if it was a US exclusive or something.


It's on Disc 3. Just checked my UK copy (Biggest Little Man).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

See, I KNEW I own that bugger on DVD, and my original statement of almost all the Rey/Eddie matches you need are on their sets.

I AM NEVER WRONG. Except those few times I am wrong. Even them I'm still almost right. How? I dunno. Don't question me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one that thinks that Eddie/JBL JD, regardless of how beautiful storytelling it displayed, only barely scratches Top 5 matches of the year for 04? :side:
> 
> I have both HHH/Benoit/HBK, Orton/Foley, and Lesnar/Eddie all over it personally.


Very, very alone. :hayley3



Clint Eastwood said:


> Never seen any Hogan/Flair matches in WCW. Which are the ones worth watching?


Bash at the Beach 1994, brother. Great match.



FLUX said:


> I'll start from 99 seeing as I've yet to watch much from 97/98. Think it's safe to say HBK/Taker wins for 97, though.
> 
> 1999: Kane and X-Pac vs. Big Show and The Undertaker - Summerslam
> 2000: Texas 10 Man
> ...


So much :banderas here. Rollins vs Ambrose - JEEEEZUS. Finlay vs Hardy getting love too. Terrific.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Completely forgot brock/lesnar sd 12/03 ehhh...... I'll stay w/ the tag but its pretty close


Always interesting when the hbk/takers from 2009-10 dont get the universally praise we a accustom too


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So I saw WrestleMania 25 in a shop today for £4 and I still wasn't tempted to buy it. :lmao Just not interested in collecting wrestling DVD's anymore. But that price was ridiculous compared to what I've paid for some WrestleMania's before (I own WrestleMania 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> So I saw WrestleMania 25 in a shop today for £4 and I still wasn't tempted to buy it. :lmao Just not interested in collecting wrestling DVD's anymore. But that price was ridiculous compared to what I've paid for some WrestleMania's before (I own WrestleMania 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26).


Pfft, cheapskate.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one that thinks that Eddie/JBL JD, regardless of how beautiful storytelling it displayed, only barely scratches Top 5 matches of the year for 04? :side:
> 
> I have both HHH/Benoit/HBK, Orton/Foley, and Lesnar/Eddie all over it personally.


Not sure about that fully but I'd have the WM triple threat and Orton/Foley above it. High chance for the other two as well. 2004 has a heavily stacked list of top matches!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I don't care about the price, I just HAVE to pre-order this and get it on release.

http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/live-november-2013-p-11785.html

Have you seen the EXTRAS? OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!































































:lmao


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

With all this talk of MOTYs I've decided to watch the top WWF/E matches (****1/4+ by meltzer + matches pimped itt) from 2000 on. Will probably take me months to finish but should be fun. After WWE stuff, I'll try ROH/PWG/Puro and add on the years.

Started with 2006 and no doubt the top 4 matches will come from ROH. Dragon and his stellar reign as champ :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:lmao at Trips/Taker from Insurrextion being on there :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Matt Hardy vs Finlay - Smackdown 6/22/07*

_After pimping it earlier as my second MOTY for 2007, I thought I'd give it a rewatch and I was completely wrong about it, unfortunately. It's not my choice for the 2nd MOTY for 07, it's my first. Move over Dave and Taker, because Matt and THE Dave are coming through.

This is such a simple match and there is nothing flashy about it, yet it's so simple - it's marvellous. The little intricacies make this match what it is and it may come as a surprise to the people who think Matt is just an average worker or even above average, but I honestly feel Hardy was the stronger worker, but don't let that fool you because this is still a Finlay masterpiece as well. This match, IMO, shows that Matt Hardy was a world class performer in every sense of the word and it irks me that he never got much further than the midcard.

Matt throws some of the best punches I have ever seen, and delivers some STIFF elbows to Finlay, almost matching him in MANLINESS. Finlay of course hits back and dominates the leg of Matt, and works on it in a simple yet brutal fashion. Cole and JBL are fantastic in this match by the way, absolutely fantastic and add another layer to this already great match. Hardy's comebacks were timed well, as were Finlay's cut offs. It's back and forth to keep each man looking strong yet each man's control periods are enough to a) show that Hardy is a big time player and B) show that Finlay is a rough, sadistic bastard

Hardy sells his leg superbly - Wincing coming off the top rope, wincing when throwing punches, delivering the side effect on one leg, going for an axe handle rather than a leg drop etc. whereas Finlay just does the things he does to make his offense look sublime. Just little things such as somewhat european uppercutting Hardy before putting him in a chinlock, like hitting him in the jaw with his bicep before locking it in, kinda thing. There's far too many things to mention but it's just stuff that like that sets him and people like him above and beyond many, many others.

All in all, this match is unbelievably good. Like I said, it's my personal MOTY, however I don't expect many to agree. IMO, this is up there with the Finlay/Benoit matches as Finlay's best WWE match and if Edge/Hardy cage match isn't Matt's best singles match, then this certainly is. If this isn't an excellent way to spend fifteen minutes of your life, I don't know what is. _

:moyes1 :moyes1 :moyes1


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Probably going to have to rename this the Official DVD/Match/Show/NETWORK Discussion Thread pretty soon. 

:vince2

Any takers? I know I want to get it when it eventually comes across the water. It all sounds too good to be true at this stage.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Probably going to have to rename this the Official DVD/Match/Show/NETWORK Discussion Thread pretty soon.
> 
> :vince2
> 
> Any takers? I know I want to get it when it eventually comes across the water. It all sounds too good to be true at this stage.


When the dirt sheets released the exact summary of things, I thought it was too good to be true, but then we saw that everything they reported was correct, and was like, TAKE DAT MONEY, WWE. NXT Live on it, also. :mark:

It's pretty much Netflix for wrestling, BUT, the one caveat is that you can never do month-to-month. You can only purchase in six month increments. Not an issue for me, but others who rely so much on a monthly income may have issues with that. What it does at the least is make sure people pay the $60 for Mania one way or the other, as opposed to just getting it for April. Say what you want, but folks at the 'E are pretty smart.

Pretty stoked for this, tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> Completely forgot brock/lesnar sd 12/03 ehhh...... I'll stay w/ the tag but its pretty close


Are there two Brock Lesnar's around and in that match did they wrestle each other with each choosing one of the two names to be referred to as?



Starbuck said:


> Any takers? I know I want to get it when it eventually comes across the water. It all sounds too good to be true at this stage.


I will get it based on the feedback from the Americans who get it first.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I meant brock/benoit, you your gawd

brock lesnar vs. brock lesnar would be :banderas though


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IMAGINE






:moyes1 :moyes1 :moyes1 :moyes1 :moyes1


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Probably going to have to rename this the Official DVD/Match/Show/NETWORK Discussion Thread pretty soon.
> 
> :vince2
> 
> Any takers? I know I want to get it when it eventually comes across the water. It all sounds too good to be true at this stage.


I'm definitely getting it. Gonna be well worth the money for me.


----------



## Arrogant Mog (Jan 31, 2013)

*#1 thread*


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Eddie/JBL smokes anything else from the entire country of the US in 2004.
> 
> 
> yeah you're probably alone.


Agreed.



































for me. The Cal Scale of 2014 :brock


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can we please turn that Cal thing into an official smiley? While we're at it, can we bring back the Sheamus smiley and get ourselves a Bret Hart one?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now THAT is a Scale everyone should start using. LOLSTARRATINGS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:banderas I marked when andre first made that :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A Cal smiley? :lol


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can we please turn that Cal thing into an official smiley? While we're at it, can we bring back the Sheamus smiley and get ourselves a Bret Hart one?












Needs to be added!!!!


This network and others who will soon copy it, are soooo gonna drive up internet prices. People are going to be a bunch of idiots and stream 24/7. I think that a few internet companies already started thinking about doing it, but then backed off.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Make the code for the Cal smile ":gingerbastard" :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

+1 On the Bret smiley.

TLC 2012 DVD arrived today, found it really cheap being Region 1  Hoping to watch it the weekend....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Probably going to have to rename this the Official DVD/Match/Show/NETWORK Discussion Thread pretty soon.
> 
> :vince2
> 
> *Any takers?* I know I want to get it when it eventually comes across the water. It all sounds too good to be true at this stage.


:taker

Smackdown was not too bad. Usos/Wyatts was good, 8-Man Tag was short and sweet, Usos cut a good promo, The Shield cut a good promo, freakin' Big Show and Randy Orton had good ones too, and the main event was the greatest New Age Outlaws match ever (which isn't saying much, but :reigns).

:jericho4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched Bradshaw/Hall from Backlash 2002. I was slightly dissappointed, tbh  Tis' a shame


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished the 2009 royal rumble match, awsome really liked, half of these guys in it arent even in the wwe anymore

will watch one more tonite prob


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching Smackdown tonight for dat main event :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched the Orton/Langston match from SD this week. I liked Orton's backstage promo and the match was alright. Nothing really memorable but not bad either. Not really feeling Langston's offense all that much even though I'm willing to give him a chance. Orton's still got it when it comes to selling for an opponent, though. Really hope he against Cena and we really get that match with BROCK at Elimination Chamber. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Got too much stuff to watch tonight to be bothered with SD, but I will record it and watch some of it tomorrow, looking forward to the Main event because NAO are awesome IMO(not in the ring of course but in charisma)


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Thought bigE/randy was bloody awful. The main event was weak too.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## 189558 (Aug 18, 2009)

Just finished watching SummerSlam 2003 for the first time in ages. Brought back some memories from the time and I seemed to enjoy the overall more now than I did back then.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Watched the Orton/Langston match from SD this week. I liked Orton's backstage promo and the match was alright. Nothing really memorable but not bad either. Not really feeling Langston's offense all that much even though I'm willing to give him a chance. Orton's still got it when it comes to selling for an opponent, though. Really hope he against Cena and we really get that match with BROCK at Elimination Chamber. :mark:


Didn't read this because I don't want to be spoiled, but I have a questions:

How do you guys see Smackdown before it airs?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone know good rumble matches from 2005-present ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Didn't read this because I don't want to be spoiled, but I have a questions:
> 
> How do you guys see Smackdown before it airs?


Didn't spoil the result anyways.

As for Smackdown before it airs, I just go to watchwrestling.net (now .tv I think). They usually have it on Fridays.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fuck, man. I miss an extended convo about Eddie/JBL JD and Eddie/Rey SD and MoTY listings? Fuckkkk me I work too much now, I haven't been spending enough time talking wrasslin with you fine people. Eddie/Rey SD has been my personal favorite match to watch for YEARS, however, recently, I think it's spot at the top has been supplanted by Finlay/Benoit Judgement Day. I've probably watched Eddie/Rey SD over a 100 times over the years, not exaggerating, but Benoit/Finlay has got to be over 50 times now. Those matches represent ideal wrestling to me. Throw Benoit/Regal No Mercy in the convo too. Those matches. Geeze. Words can't describe my love for them.


Matches of the Year (WWE only)

1996 Foley vs Michaels MindGames
1997 Bret vs Austin WM 13 (tie) Michaels vs Taker Badd Blood Hell in a Cell
1998 Foley vs Austin Over the Edge
1999 Foley vs The Rock Royal Rumble I Quit
2000 Foley vs Triple H Royal Rumble Street Fight
2001 Jericho vs Benoit Royal Rumble Ladder Match
2002 Lesnar vs Taker No Mercy Hell in a Cell
2003 Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle SD (tie) Lesnar vs Angle Summerslam (tie) Lesnar vs Benoit SD
2004 Eddie vs JBL Judgement Day 2004
2005 Eddie vs Rey 6/23/05 Smackdown
2006 Benoit vs Finlay Judgement Day
2007 Finlay vs Kane Belfast Brawl 
2008 Flair vs Michaels WrestleMania 24
2009 Michaels vs The Undertaker WrestleMania 25
2010 Michaels vs Taker WrestleMania 26
2011 CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank
2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL (tie) Lesnar vs Cena ER (tie) Shield vs Hell No/Ryback TLC
2013 CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar SummerSlam


Hardest years to choose? 2007 and 2008 easily. No matches stand out as "omfg this rulz" so it's hard to pick. Also 2005 was tough because of my love for Flair/Trips Cage match. Sorry for steering the convo back to a dead topic, I just had to get my .02 in


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Didn't read this because I don't want to be spoiled, but I have a questions:
> 
> How do you guys see Smackdown before it airs?


I assume they either torrent it or see it in other countries where it airs earlier

And SKINS: 2007 if you haven't seen it, 2008 and 2005 are good as well. I like the 2011 one but most dont, but the winner is dissapointing


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It airs earlier in other countries because of the time difference. It's not LIVE like Raw, instead its simply FRIDAY NIGHT Smackdown. And Friday Night SD is different for many places. Gets online and BOOM. Watched.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watched this:






Was fun to go back and watch all of Punk's title defenses. They weren't all great matches, and some of the booking decisions were just silly, but Punk's reign produced a lot of good stuff and it was enjoyable.

Top 5 Punk title matches during his reign for me would probably be:

Punk/Bryan OTL
Punk/Jericho WM
Punk/Jericho ER
Punk/Cena NOC
Punk/Miz/ADR TLC


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got done with Wrestlemania 13 even though I skipped most of it, lol. Too lazy for the irrelevant stuff now.

Rocky Malvia vs SULTAN - ★¼
HHH vs Goldust - ★¾ (What a complete bore)
Bret vs Austin - ★★★★★ (Just wonderful)
Undertaker vs Sid - ★★¼ (Mostly boring and uneventful. And Bret... lolinterferenceouttanowhere. Great moment to close, though.)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> Anyone know good rumble matches from 2005-present ?


Cena v Umaga in 2007!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

'skins, I think you'd like RR '07. I don't remember much about it, except for the ending stretch, which I think you'll really like.

C2D, I was hoping you'd watch that street fight so you could tell me if it's good or not. People in this thread have praise it, and Meltzer gave it *** 1/2, I think.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> C2D, I was hoping you'd watch that street fight so you could tell me if it's good or not. People in this thread have praise it, and Meltzer gave it *** 1/2, I think.


Which one, the WM13 one? Since it's 10 minutes only, I might find the time for it soon but right now I wanna advance through 1997 and see more of Bret Hart's comical whining. I've never seen a whining character done so well ever. :lol You'd think all his complaining is legitimate feelings and that him and Austin legit hate each other.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd say pretty much all of RR '07 is awesome. I don't even think Lashley/Test is the worst thing ever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not sure if I like Bret Hart/Steve Austin at Survivor Series 96 MORE than Wrestlemania 13 but it's close. Love them both. Really like Survivor Series 96. 

I just bought Royal Rumble 2007 used the only day for a few bucks. Very fun PPV. Last few minutes of the rumble is great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

if your talking about the foley/hhh STREET FIGHT its good stuff, great actually, near *****

I'm sorry no direspect but you would have to pay me millions to watch a randy orton vs. BIG E Langston match :ti Good Lord


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

And they want this guy as the face of the company :ti


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey, sorry for the double post, but I found this thing online called synchtube where basically a bunch of people are watching a YT video that someone has embedded and can chat about it while watching. So, I made one for wrasslin. link is below and anyone is allowed to put content on I think as long as its wrestling related!

http://synchtube.6irc.net/r/Wrestlingforum_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man you guys lied to me. I decided to also watch through 1997 instead of the dreaded 1999, and I just finished Royal Rumble 1997. Undertaker/Vader is good. Lots of fun. What we should also talk about is the tag match the next night. Doug Furnas and Phillip LaFon :lenny


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THOUGHTS on some recent topics ~

~ Orton Vs Langston, is there a less appealing matchup in the company at the moment that doesn't involve Kofi Kingston Vs Dolph Ziggler? I mean you get a robotic heel and mix hi with a robotic face and expect some fantastic character work of some sort? Actually, I might take Dolph & Kofi on this one... :lol :lol LIKE FUCK.

~ Royal Rumble matches themselves since 2005 have been a mixed bag. 2005, 2006, & 2007 are all sorts of good stuff while 2010 & 2012 are both complete shit (barring 2012's ending sequence between Sheamus and Jericho, that fucking ruled).

~ It's 2014 and people are clamoring for a CAL SMILEY?!?!?! This thread must truly be gone to shit :lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How's the unk8 project going? You said you were going to watch at least 25 matches per day of the GOAT. Has that manifested? Is that why you aren't here that much? Will Punk's ROH stuff be included in this list? Will Punk/Rave finally get the recognition it deserves?

EDIT: Who removed the elliptical Punk smiley?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Doing my MOTY project and did all of 2006 today.

Benoit vs Regal - No Mercy 06 - ****1/2
Edge/Foley/Lita vs Beulah/Tommy/Funk - ONS 06 - ****1/2
Edge vs Foley - WM 22 - ****1/4
Angle vs Undertaker - NWO 06 - ****1/4
Edge vs HHH vs Cena - Backlash 06 - ****1/4
Benoit vs Finlay - Judgment Day 06 - ****
Rey vs Angle - 6/2/06 - ***3/4
Benoit vs Finlay - 11/24/06 - ***1/2
Edge vs Cena - TLC match -Unforgiven 06 - ***1/2.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2001

Dudleys vs Edge and Christian - Tag Titles ****1/2*
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - IC Title Ladder Match *****1/4*
Chyna vs Ivory - Women's title - **1/2*
Triple H vs Kurt Angle - WWF Title - ****1/2*
Royal Rumble match - ****1/4*

Undercard is pretty good. I like the opener. Almost seems strange seeing these teams not in a tables match, or TLC match, but this is just fine. Concussion story plays in a bit, and it's done pretty well. Dudley's win the tag belts.

Ladder match is really great, and one of the things that I love about it is that it doesn't rely on spots, which is not surprising considering the participants. This is just two guys looking to fuck the other up. I don't remember if I've seen this straight through before or not, and I didn't know who won, so I was caught off guard (in a good way) when Jericho had the ladder kicked out from under him when it looked like he had the title won. Not sure if it's the best ladder match, but certainly one of the better ones that's not two guys flying around.

Women's title match happened. Chyna squashes Ivory for a bit and somehow paralyzes herself (I guess). No idea how that storyline ended. 

I still like the WWF title match, though it went down considerably from last watch. Of course it features leg work from Hunter, and it does plod a bit, but the work is good. Always like when Hunter pulls out the Indian Deathlock. The Steph/Trish brawl was bound to happen, but it still takes away from the match a bit. I also detest ref bumps, so that took off points for me as well. Austin interference worked as it set up the Three Stages of Hell match. 

Fuck, I stayed awake just long enough to see the Rumble. It's pretty good, with Kane of course being the standougt, going HAM in that match. Not a top RR match, but pretty enjoyable for the most part.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**3/4 for Orton/Langston from SD. **1/2 for the main event. Also, how many more times are we going to see The Wyatts facing the Usos?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dat Benoit/Regal NM receiving the praise it deserves :mark:

I'd actually watch it before I'd watch Benoit/Finlay JD. This one may be better, but Benoit/Regal NM is arguably my favorite match ever.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Was looking at doing TNA next for 2006 project (when I go back to 06). They had 6 matches rated ****1/4 or higher. All 6 had Samoa Joe in them. :mark: for 6 of his matches. Speaks to the quality of their roster though.

Started 2005. Watched Edge/Hardy in a cage for the first time. That was fucking fantastic.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I actually hate all this WWE Network talk, seeing that here in Eastern Europe we can't subscribe to it. It sucks to live here, tbh


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Dat Benoit/Regal NM receiving the praise it deserves :mark:
> 
> I'd actually watch it before I'd watch Benoit/Finlay JD. This one may be better, but Benoit/Regal NM is arguably my favorite match ever.



I'll cosign that. Those 2 matches are numbers 2 and 3 respectively on my personal all time favorite match list. It's been said before, but it bares mentioning again, THOSE HEADBUTTS :mark: :mark:

You can make a strong case that Regal/Benoit NM is one of the smartest worked matches ever. Not really a shocker considering the Master Regal is involved, but geeze, everything just makes perfect sense and has purpose. Even the finish, with Regal tapping immediately once he realized Benoit had caught him in the Crossface was perfect. Why sit in their and take more damage when you know it's over anyways? Smart smart Regal. I've always thought it was moronic when a heel is caught in a faces finishing submission and he holds out on tapping for like 15-20 seconds. YOURE A HEEL! IM LOOKING AT YOU TRIPLE H (WM 20). Granted it works well for a face to resist tapping, but for heels tapping immediately just makes you look smart and the face look dominant. It's win win. Unless it's a monster like Lesnar or Henry, and they should NEVER be tapping anyway. Guess WWE missed the memo on that though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit hitting the sickest headbutt in history of headbutts was absolutely gut-wrenching and powerful, good on one way for being what it was, but also bad because it did contribute for... well, you know it. No need for that kind of talk here. Plus, Regal blocking the chops :mark: and that insane matwork :mark: and THE WHOLE FUCKING MATCH :mark::mark:

I'll admit that I'm biased too - that was my 1st true WWE PPV ever. I'd occasionally watch it back in 2004, but only in 06 I became more regular. No Mercy 2006 was the 1st PPV I'd watch. And boy... Benoit/Regal blew the fuck me away. The entire PPV was awesome - Matt/Helms, the shockingly good Tag Title match, the final 2/3rds of Taker/Kennedy (until the finish), Rey/Chavo, the 4-Way, Layla El's booty... the show ruled. But of course that was the standout The fact that nobody even talks about it when it comes to 2006's best stuff (in favor of things like Angle/Rey/Orton) makes me sad to even remember that match happened at all. Still, it's a masterpiece.

Now, does anybody else feel both happy and sad at the same time regarding Lesnar/Show at the Rumble?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More than happy to see Brock as always, more than sad to see Show as always.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm confident we'll see a MOTYC from Brock/Show, even if it only goes 10 minutes. Both are one of a kind wrestlers and are two of the best to lace up a pair of boots, IMO. The only sadness I have is due to the fact that we were so close to getting Henry/Lesnar, other than that I'm pretty damn happy we're seeing Brock vs. Show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's so bad about Triple H resisting the urge to tap at WM XX? Sounds like a complaint just for the sake of complaining :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH not tapping for a while was awesome, added incredible drama to the finish and made it even better when he FINALLY gave up and Benoit became champ.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For anyone who watched any of the KC Timeline Series', WCW 1993 is coming up.....with Vader. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait for it. VADER :mark:.

Breaking Kayfabe with Cornette is absolutely worth the watch too btw.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can the E just release a damn :vader set already?!!! :mark: 




Srdjan99 said:


> I actually hate all this WWE Network talk, seeing that here in Eastern Europe we can't subscribe to it. It sucks to live here, tbh


Move to the states. More wrestling and we probably have easier women. :curry2 



funnyfaces1 said:


> What's so bad about Triple H resisting the urge to tap at WM XX? Sounds like a complaint just for the sake of complaining :HHH2


Agreed. I like that he didn't tap right away. Or did he not want to tap at all? If that is the case I have heard :hbk3 didn't want to tap to :angle2 or :cena5 at WM 21 and 23. Nobody talks about that though. :hbk2 seems to walk on water with some in the IWC though. 

Some people find any reason to shit on :hhh2 I don't get it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If HBK wasn't such an arse in the 90's, id probably say he shouldn't have tapped to Cena too TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Edit-sorry for the double post


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Thought you guys might appreciate this.

Scored the following on Ebay for $25 total:

Wrestlemania 23 (2-disc set, I'll sell it since I already have the 3 disc)
Wrestlemania 24 (OOP, 3-disc set)
New Years Revolution 2006 
New Years Revolution 2007
Best Of Raw 15th Anniversary (Gonna sell, already have)
One Night Stand 2007
Vengeance 2007


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What's so bad about Triple H resisting the urge to tap at WM XX? Sounds like a complaint just for the sake of complaining :HHH2



It's opinion, chief. I can complain about things I don't like, that's why we are here :HHH2

I think in that specific instance, it didn't add drama. If they wanted drama they should have made Trips struggle to KEEP Benoit from locking in the Crossface, THEN once he locks it in he should have tapped in seconds. If we are talking realism, how often do you see guys resist the urge to tap once a submission like an arm breaker or a triangle choke is fully locked in in MMA? Never right? Because once it's over, it's over, no use having your arm broken. That's why I was praising the finish in Regal/Benoit. Regal fought tooth and nail to keep Benoit from locking in the Crossface, but once he got it in, it should be over.

For a baby face, tapping out in general can be a bad look, so in some regards I can understand the whole resisting tapping thing like HBK did vs Angle at WM. But a heel shouldn't be doing that, just my opinion.

P.s. Pat Patterson was the agent for Angle/HBK and the finish was completely up in the air, they didn't even know who was going to win. Apparently Shawn offered to put Angle over, and said if he was gonna lose, he wanted to lose to the Angles best move, the Ankle lock. So there you go.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it made perfect sense for HHH to resist from tapping for so long specially since it was a triple threat and he could have Shawn break it up at any time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> If HBK wasn't such an arse in the 90's, id probably say he shouldn't have tapped to Cena too TBH.


I actually agree with you. I don't think :hbk should have tapped to :cena2 at WM23 but that is just my 2 cents.

As for WM 21 it's :angle2 your ass needs to tap! I know that match gets shit on but I enjoyed it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus HHH regarded the WHC as THE most important thing in his life. That's what his entire reign of terror was all about. He wasn't just about to give it all up in a second if he thought he could hold on long enough for HBK to "save" him.

Wait... am I defending Triple H? I FEEL SO DIRTY.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

bringing up a new topic because I dont want to talk about HHH

Most overrated and underrated PPV? Overrated for me is an easy choice, No way out 2001, that shit gets so much unnecessary praise. Angle vs Rock is BAD and their is nothing too special about the 3SOH match as well. IC title 4 way is good, but not great. 

as for underrated, I have to go with Backlash 2000, show is so damn fun but I always see the ME get shitted on even though its really fucking good. 

also, about to start BB 04, really not looking to this HIAC match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Overrated = Money in the Bank 2011. Don't even need 10 seconds to think of that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who the FUCK shits on the Backlash 00 Main Event? I rarely see it get anything but the praise it so richly deserves. Same for the rest of the PPV usually tbh lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No Way Out 2001 overrated, nah not IMO.

Probably as I hold the 3SOH match in high regard, and I like Angle/Rock TBH. 

I've never seen the ME of Backlash shit on either lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Who the FUCK shits on the Backlash 00 Main Event? I rarely see it get anything but the praise it so richly deserves. Same for the rest of the PPV usually tbh lol.


not really in here, but others have told me "its a disgrace compared to the Iron man match"

and even so its still not talked about as the best PPV of that year


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Wrestlemanias 21 & 19 always gets looked over. So those are my underrated as they are 2 & 3 on my Wrestlemania favorites.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Underrated is Summerslam 2001 imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alright, time for some REAL TALK.

If it's not said in here, it doesn't matter 8*D.

Iron Man is better, but yeah, doesn't make BL shit or anything close to it. Backlash match takes all the typical AE overbooking crap and actually does it RIGHT. It's one of the pure funnest matches in the history of existence ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Overrated? WrestleMania 3. That is a complete one match show and even that one match gets unnecessary GOAT-match praise. Yes it is a flawlessly choreographed classic but it's outdone by so many other stuff it's not even funny. Underrated? No Mercy 2006. FUCK YEAH THAT SHOW RULED AND IT'S NEVER EVEN TALKED ABOUT. At least SSlam 2001 gets praise for Austin/Angle.

Pointing out MachoMadness' talk, I don't get why Shawn/Angle WM 21 gets shit on. I talk out of my ass here a bit given I am on the Angle hate bandwagon, but that match doesn't even have the typical problems of Angle entertainment-galore as for e.g. the Benoit or Hardy stuff. It wasn't perfect as the internet fools claim (not even close) but I have it at ****1/4 easily, nº3 MOTN for that WM (the following two being Taker/Orton and MITB - which gives you an idea of how good that show was when it delievered). Plus I actually didn't hate the finish for the reasons Cactus pointed out: Shawn being the babyface wanted to resist the Ankle Lock. AND especially at WrestleMania, given how he is supposedly Mr. WM and the greatest of his generation. Tapping to Angle, regardless of the guy's accolades, would be a slap in the face to his reputation. He tried to hold on as long as possible. If only Angle hadn't used the submission twice in the match already iirc, that would've made it better.

But to each his own. Vengeance is better btw.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I liked how Triple H resisted to tap to the crossface. It put over how big he was at the time and how much the World Title meant to him.






33:00 I love that suspense. Triple H first trying to get to the ropes, then trying to roll out of it only for Benoit to hang on and trap Triple H in the middle of the ring after having the Crossface locked in for over a minute and finally making Triple H tap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got around to watching Main Event with AJ Vs Kaitlyn aka Kaitlyn's last match. Fun stuff, AJ and Kaitlyn have great chemistry and I loved how they worked the match using their "past" friendship and stuff, an AJ giving her a big hug at the end was nice too. So who the fuck is left to face AJ in a match that I won't simply skip? Natalya? Nah, I tend to skip her stuff too. Bah. Sucks that the divas roster is so terrible that whoever takes the belt from AJ will end up being some shitty plastic barbie who can't wrestle their way out of a wet paper bag unless there was promise of cock afterwards.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> I liked how Triple H resisted to tap to the crossface. It put over how big he was at the time and how much the World Title meant to him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fucking chills watching that. Amazing.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Eddie/Angle bouts tend to be a mixed bag, I do remember a SD match that was really good though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT HHH IN THE WRESTLEMANIA XX MATCH? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ?

The fact that he held on for so long added to the match BIG TIME. If Benoit had to just lock it in right away, the ending sequence wouldn't have been nearly as fantastic as it wouldn't have settled in our emotions as well IMO. Benoit gets it in right away and he's going to win unless Hunter hangs on, and Hunter being aware that it's a triple threat match knows that he CAN be saved, but ultimately can't take it in the end and succumbs to the crossface. One of the best WWE main event endings EVER, Benoit takes down the machine in WWE's ultimate moment.

I'll say that the match isn't as good as Eddie/JBL for obvious reasons, and you can say "WWE MAIN EVENT STYLE TRIPLE THREAT OMG" all you want, but THAT payoff at perhaps the biggest show of it's time was worth Hunter holding the belt and defeating all comers, made everytime he lost SO sweet for the people who despised him.

EDIT: Missed Cal talking about AJ/Kaitlyn, damn now that I think of it I have absolutely zero interest in the divas division, assumed AJ/Kaitlyn would be having 5 PPV matches a year for the next five years, eventually giving us something of Trish/Mickie quality :mark:. Now the divas division is just complete shit, wouldn't be surprised if they did AJ-BELLAS at every show from here on out, fucking shit .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Take out the pointless blade jobs (specially HBK) and add the Backlash crowd for WM XX and you've got the perfect triple threat match. It is pretty perfect as it is, though. Even the HBK/HHH part was well done with them being the two who have bad blood and want to settle their differences in the biggest stage. Loved Shawn's "it's you and me now" taunt right after the table suplex.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not related to ANYTHING you guys were talking about 

watched a couple matches
*
Kaitlyn vs. Aj Lee payback*
I checked this out because it gets a lot of praise and a couple posters I talk to claim its the "best divas match this years" some say in a while. So I gave it a try, :lol its horrid and I was thinking about it, I'm sure I can find 3 DIVAS matches from this year better.It is just a mixture of Kaitlyn terribly throwing aj around and aj doing some of the dumb holds IVE ever seen :lmao this is sooo bad, if this is thought as a good match by divas standards, Good lord. Pretty sure I can find 3 matches better from this year.

*
Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Janetty raw 5/17/93*

Now I use to hold this is VERY high regard (top 10 raw match ever) and am disappointed how much it has fallen. Its still is good but there it is not "special" or "all time classic" at all . It is just a glorfied normal wcw crusierweight match, or a high flying smackdown match in todays time. I still think its good but for it to win MOTY of 93 is laughable at its highest degree and this is :hbk1 da GAWD we are talking about


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, the HBK bladejob was one of the worst ever, and when it comes down to little things that performers do bad/good, HBK's blading is definitely a weak point for that guy. Seems as if he graduated from the "Ric Flair 2000s school of gratuitous bloodshed" or something. I mean, the guy hits the ring post and it looks like he's been stabbed in the face about 20 times, what the actual fuck ?

The table spot was fantastic, Hunter & HBK sold how hesitant they were to work together during that match pretty fucking well. They've had a few good ones together as well, shame that WWE chooses not to acknowledge their feud it seems due to HHH & HBK being BFFL AAF.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kaitlyn/AJ's praise was because of the storytelling, not the technical aspect Skins. That's where it absolutely suceeded. And considering the state of the Divas roster, you better take it for granted that they actually had a match as good as that 

But to each his own, if you thought it sucked it's your choice.

Btw, I dare you to try to find 3 better matches. NXT included. 8*D

EDIT: The fact that people are barking about HHH's performance at *WM 20* makes me wonder if they bug him for the sake of bugging him.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Eddie/Angle bouts tend to be a mixed bag, I do remember a SD match that was really good though.


Watched that last night. It's from 4/14/05.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Yeah, the HBK bladejob was one of the worst ever, and when it comes down to little things that performers do bad/good, HBK's blading is definitely a weak point for that guy. Seems as if he graduated from the "Ric Flair 2000s school of gratuitous bloodshed" or something. I mean, the guy hits the ring post and it looks like he's been stabbed in the face about 20 times, what the actual fuck ?


Yeah, extremely over the top. I used to like all those HBK/HHH/Flair blade jobs when they bladed two minutes into the match from the simplest face bump because I was blood thirsty but at this point, I look back and feel it was just excessive and try hard attempts at making everything "epic" because a crimson mask is supposed to add to that. 

Since Benoit was part of that match, I've been thinking about his use of blades and I really don't recall him doing it many times _at all_. Can only think of New Year's Revolution 2005, the HBK Raw match and the HHH ironman. I think he bladed a few times when taking beatings like Edge turning on him after Taboo Tuesday. But that's it. Otherwise he would just open himself up by headbutting the shit out of Regal or somebody else.

Speaking of NYR 05, lol @ Orton's blade job on that one. That shit was so small that it was completely gone by the end of the match. I think Orton hated it to the point that he punished himself two years later with that glorious Eddie-esque blade job in the DX/Rated RKO match. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Honest question what was the "storytelling" IIRC the feud was Crazy chick Aj embarrassing Kaitlyn daily and causing Kaitlyn to have enough of it and want to destroy her. Knowing the the action was pretty uninspiring w/ Kaitlyn brawling being pretty weak and aj appling odd submission holds. Maybe it was storytelling just executed poorly

To each is there own, I will find 3-4 divas matches better this year though


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

Don't know if this is right place to ask but...Anyone know a site which has match listings(not results) for every match that's happened in each episode of Raw/SD in their history?

I remember finding a site a few months ago,but I forgot where I found it


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I think Unforgiven 2006 is kinda underrated I liked Nitro/Hardy ( and I even liked the finish), Umaga/Kane was okay, I enjoyed Carlito/Orton , and McMahons/DX HIAC was kinda fun( McMahon's bloody head being shoved in Big Show's ass) , and I loved Trish/Lita and Edge/Cena ( Both Edge and Trish putting on a babyface hero performance)


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----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate Unforgiven 2006 <_<

Not sure what the most underrated PPV is. Maybe Great American Bash 1992. Tag team clinic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Edge/Flair TLC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Edge/Cena TLC IMO

Thought that the Edge/Cena match wasn't that great TBH


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

dxbender said:


> Don't know if this is right place to ask but...Anyone know a site which has match listings(not results) for every match that's happened in each episode of Raw/SD in their history?
> 
> I remember finding a site a few months ago,but I forgot where I found it


http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/results/


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT HHH IN THE WRESTLEMANIA XX MATCH? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ?
> 
> The fact that he held on for so long added to the match BIG TIME. If Benoit had to just lock it in right away, the ending sequence wouldn't have been nearly as fantastic as it wouldn't have settled in our emotions as well IMO. Benoit gets it in right away and he's going to win unless Hunter hangs on, and Hunter being aware that it's a triple threat match knows that he CAN be saved, but ultimately can't take it in the end and succumbs to the crossface. One of the best WWE main event endings EVER, Benoit takes down the machine in WWE's ultimate moment.
> 
> ...




I think everyone is missing my point. I'm not saying Benoit should have just locked in the submission and Trips should have tapped immediately. Far from it. I'm saying the way Regal/Benoit do it is so much better and more realistic. Instead of having the submission locked in for an eternity and having a dude resist tapping out making the submission look a little weak, why not build the anticipation by having the dude resist being put in the submission itself, THEN when he finally gets it in, the guy can tap? That's how a real wrestling match works anyways. I'm just not a fan of heels resisting tapping in a baby faces finishing submission for eternity. Just a preference, and apparently William Regal agrees with me 


Look, this is me just picking nits to the nth degree so you can just ignore me now. It started out with me just putting over how awesome Regal/Benoit's finish was in the "smart wrestling" category and turned into an indictment on WM 20 triple threat, which is one of my favorite matches to watch as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AJ/Kaitlyn from PB is the best divas match I've seen in WWE in... years. I honestly can't think of a GOOD divas match in recent memory outside of a handful of AJ matches, never mind anything better. And the last divas match I liked anywhere near as much as this one was a fucking EVE match. Yeah. Then you're probably having to go back to 09 to the last time I recall a divas match being anything special.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey I was the one that brought up aj/kaitlyn 

Ok to each is own, I WILL find 3-4 divas matches better, I just didnt find it special at all tbhayley off the top of my head nattie/brie summerslam smokes it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I think everyone is missing my point. I'm not saying Benoit should have just locked in the submission and Trips should have tapped immediately. Far from it. I'm saying the way Regal/Benoit do it is so much better and more realistic. Instead of having the submission locked in for an eternity and having a dude resist tapping out making the submission look a little weak, why not build the anticipation by having the dude resist being put in the submission itself, THEN when he finally gets it in, the guy can tap? That's how a real wrestling match works anyways. I'm just not a fan of heels resisting tapping in a baby faces finishing submission for eternity. Just a preference, and apparently William Regal agrees with me
> 
> Look, this is me just picking nits to the nth degree so you can just ignore me now. It started out with me just putting over how awesome Regal/Benoit's finish was in the "smart wrestling" category and turned into an indictment on WM 20 triple threat, which is one of my favorite matches to watch as well.


I understand what you're trying to say but the thing with the Crossface is, it's a catch finisher. When Benoit goes for it with the opponent already down like in the Regal matches, it's understandable they tap immediately after unsuccessfully struggling to prevent the hold from being locked. But in the triple threat, the move was locked in OUTTA NOWHERE. It looked like HHH had hit the Pedigree as Benoit turned the tables and surprised him with the Crossface. He had no time to try to prevent the arms from getting locked around his face so it made sense for the hold to be locked in instantly with a lot of struggle to build up drama for when he finally tapped.

I also don't think the submission hold will look weak if it takes a long time for them to tap. In fact, it puts over both the hold and guy on the losing end as they were too proud to want to give up and live to fight another day but ultimately, the hold was too painful for them to escape.

Funny that I'm discussing this as I just rewatched Angle vs HBK from WM21 which still holds up as a very good match but just not as great as I remember it being. Angle working on Shawn's back is excusable because of Shawn's history with back injuries as well as wearing him down to prevent the aerial offense and things like a kip-up. Didn't care for the middle portion when they went to the outside since nothing came out of it and other than a bit of excessive finisher spamming, I feel like they did that part well enough with the crowd becoming electric. Angle after hitting a top rope Angle Slam should've crawled to the cover instead of instantly going for it. And wow, how ridiculous was the final Ankle Lock? Shawn was in the hold for damn near TWO minutes! But at least he was selling it unlike the disaster with Jeff Hardy relaxing on the mat while in the hold for what was it, 4 minutes or am I remembering wrong?

★★★★ for this one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> AJ/Kaitlyn from PB is the best divas match I've seen in WWE in... years. I honestly can't think of a GOOD divas match in recent memory outside of a handful of AJ matches, never mind anything better. And the last divas match I liked anywhere near as much as this one was a fucking EVE match. Yeah. Then you're probably having to go back to 09 to the last time I recall a divas match being anything special.



I think I agree. 


Look, I normally make a point to avoid most Divas matches, AJ/Kaitlyn is the only one I've watched more than once since, well since I dunno when. I thought it was damn good as far as Divas matches go.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm with Skins on this one, I thought AJ/Kaitlyn was crap.

I personally thought Bellas vs. Aksana/Fox from Old School Raw was better and I only really remember that because it was 5 days ago. A variety of different stories rolled in to one with decent execution, plus half the time of Kaitlyn/AJ.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For your information Cal, what you mean by "a fucking EVE match" is "a Eve Torres match... as expected". Because you JUST don't fuck with Eve's badassness. YOU. JUST. DON'T.

Anyways, I think my wrasslin will be limited for a while since I'm busy watching *INVADER ZIM *(fuck you, it was an awesome show), but if I will watch it, I think I'll stick to Royal Rumble, Orton/Cena or Lesnar/Show matches 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

From what I hear Summer rae (Yes summer rae) has some pretty good ones down in nxt, I'll have to check that out


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Shield/Hell No/Ryback (TLC 2012).....Finally.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

....you are WAY, WAY too late in the party Clint.

I'm jk, you're still on time cause that's a classic


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Foley/Austin OTE 98 again on the Foley set, still fucking awesome, my 1998 match of the year by a fucking mile.Only matches that compete are HBK/Taker rumble, Kane/Taker WM, and MAYBE Funk/Foley RAW. In fact, those with the Taker/Foley match and Rock/Foley SVS match might be the only good matches of 1998 that ive seen :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You've missed out on at least 1/3 of both SummerSlam and IYH Judgment Day cards, mate 

No seriously, stuff like X-Pac/Jarrett and Mankind/Shamrock deserves viewership.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> About to watch Shield/Hell No/Ryback (TLC 2012).....Finally.


Good match. Liked TLC 2012 quite a bit, probably wouldn't have cared as much if it didn't have a great crowd.

Ryback and Hell No VS Shield was good, as was Rhodes Scholars VS Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara. I liked Ziggler VS Cena, as well, but I am in the minority here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I can safely say I enjoyed the hell (no pun) out of the TLC match. I'm not one of Ryback's biggest fans but I thought his performance here was great, great spots, action, it had the lot TBH, and it was the Shields' debut match.

****1/2 IMO.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Edge/Flair TLC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Edge/Cena TLC IMO
> 
> Thought that the Edge/Cena match wasn't that great TBH


Both were greats... But Edge vs Cena seemed like it had a plan and move for move they wanted to do, I can see why people wouldn't like it, That it was a bit spotty, but I took it as a match where Edge was pretty much schooling Cena and showing off his creativity and ability in TLC matches infront of his hometown..showing Why he's the "master of TLC" ( all chairs/table/ladder spors and the dives of the ladders) plus ..that amazing epic finish had me marking me out and I despited the ground cena walked on in 2006.. 


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----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I have the same rating Zep, love that match

Some ratings for disc 2 of the Foley set

Foley/HBK: ****3/4
Foley/Trips 9/22/97: ****
Foley/Austin OTE: ****1/2
Foley/Taker KOTR: ****
Foley/Rock 1/4/99: ***1/2(that :mark: ending)
Foley/Trips RR 2000: *****

what a fucking set, and this is only one disc of three



etrbaby said:


> Both were greats... But Edge vs Cena seemed like it had a plan and move for move they wanted to do, I can see why people wouldn't like it, That it was a bit spotty, but I took it as a match where Edge was pretty much schooling Cena and showing off his creativity and ability in TLC matches infront of his hometown..showing Why he's the "master of TLC" ( all chairs/table/ladder spors and the dives of the ladders) plus ..that amazing epic finish had me marking me out and I despited the ground cena walked on in 2006.. Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yeah its too spotty for me to really like it, and I wasn't a fan of the story at all. It was basically Edge saying "I'VE NEVER LOST A TLC MATCH BRO!" even though we all know that was a blatant lie. The crowd was fun but besides that, it woudn't be in the top 5 Edge match of 06, and that was like, his best his year ever. 

The Flair/Edge match though, that story was AWESOME! The whole match revolved around Edge trying to take the old and broken Flair and ending his career once and for all. Its still only Edges #3 match of the year though, with the Foley match and the ECW ONS tag match being above it. 

FWIW, I understand why so many like it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished the Wrestlemania XX triple threat. This match is just so much fun to watch and the 20 something minutes go by FAST. By the time Benoit had Triple H in the Sharpshooter which leads to the finish, I thought "that was quick". That's the first sign that you're watching an entertaining match. Hate how JR is like "WHERE DID BENOIT COME FROM?" when he breaks up the Pedigree pin, though. He got up right in front of him and if you look at the titantron from the angle they shot the pin, you can clearly see him enter the ring in time. The finish is infinite GOOSEBUMPS even though I've seen it about a thousand times already. ★★★★★ as usual. Oh and the spot when Shawn starts bleeding is a bit weird. Not sure if he bladed when Benoit was holding his legs up or his face really hit the steel-post leading to the crimson mask.

Next on my watch lists:
- Royal Rumble 2004 (just the Rumble itself)
- RR 1992 (haven't seen it yet and so many have praised it)
- Flair vs HHH (Taboo Tuesday)
- More Raw 1997


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished the Wrestlemania XX triple threat. This match is just so much fun to watch and the 20 something minutes go by FAST. By the time Benoit had Triple H in the Sharpshooter which leads to the finish, I thought "that was quick". That's the first sign that you're watching an entertaining match. Hate how JR is like "WHERE DID BENOIT COME FROM?" when he breaks up the Pedigree pin, though. He got up right in front of him and if you look at the titantron from the angle they shot the pin, you can clearly see him enter the ring in time. The finish is infinite GOOSEBUMPS even though I've seen it about a thousand times already. ★★★★★ as usual.
> 
> Next on my watch lists:
> - Royal Rumble 2004 (just the Rumble itself)
> ...




ONLY one triple threat comes somewhat close to be as good for me is Angle/Rock/Taker from vengeance 01. But yeah the WM 20 match is GOAT. The rematch at Backlash was awesome too, I still have Angle/Rock/Taker as my second favorite. Those would be my top 3 triple threats. 



1. WM 20. *****
2. Angle/Rock/Taker ****1/2
3. Beniot/HBK/HHH BL ****1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Most overrated and underrated PPV? Overrated for me is an easy choice, No way out 2001, that shit gets so much unnecessary praise. Angle vs Rock is BAD and their is nothing too special about the 3SOH match as well. IC title 4 way is good, but not great.
> 
> as for underrated, I have to go with Backlash 2000, show is so damn fun but I always see the ME get shitted on even though its really fucking good.


I remember I fucking hated Backlash 06 and everyone seems to like it a lot. Vengeance 05 is overrated too. And WrestleMania 21 even though people only like half of it. Still that half is overrated. God I'd be here all day if I talked about overrated WrestleManias. 24 and especially 26. 26 isn't even a *good* show and some people call it all time great.

EDIT [i should really finish reading the rest of the thread before posting what is wrong with me]- 



ATF said:


> EDIT: The fact that people are barking about HHH's performance at *WM 20* makes me wonder if they bug him for the sake of bugging him.


I have no gripes with the finish, but really, he wasn't too good in that match. The section of the match where Benoit is taken out is expectedly crap because Shawn and Hunter had sucked since 2002 and still tried to work their same old rubbishy shit routine during Benoit's match. And then they tried it again a few PPVs later for an hour, overshadowing Benoit.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I remember I fucking hated Backlash 06 and everyone seems to like it a lot. Vengeance 05 is overrated too. And WrestleMania 21 even though people only like half of it. Still that half is overrated. God I'd be here all day if I talked about overrated WrestleManias. 24 and especially 26. 26 isn't even a *good* show and some people call it all time great.




WM 24 overrated? 

I would say more underrated tbh. It's not the GOAT mania, but a very solid one. Top 7 IMO.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I have tickets to a house show in a few hours and reports from the last few ones have indicated that they are still having Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wayatt in a cage. Don't think I've ever been this excited for a house show match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

xdoomsayerx said:


> WM 24 overrated?
> 
> I would say more underrated tbh. It's not the GOAT mania, but a very solid one. Top 7 IMO.


I've seen a lot of people call it the best Wrestlemania, or top 3. Maybe that opinion's gone with time, IDK. I don't even know if 'top 3 WrestleMania' is a compliment at this point anyway. How many of them are actually good shows overall? Pretty sure there's no way in hell I'd like seven of them.  



That's sad, actually. :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

xdoomsayerx said:


> WM 24 overrated?
> 
> I would say more underrated tbh. It's not the GOAT mania, but a very solid one. Top 7 IMO.


I disagree.

JBL/Finlay rules.
Show/Mayweather is fun as hell.

The rest is bleh. Taker/Edge is decent yet overrated, the WWE title three way sucks, MITB is one of the worst of the stipulation, Flair/HBK has it's moments but isn't spectacular and then you have Tista/Umaga, Kane/Chavo and Glamorella/Two sluts.

17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 28 and 29 > 24, IMO. Wouldn't even make MY OWN PERSONAL top 7 Manias of THIS century.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I really don't remember enough about the older ones to know if they were good overall shows but I feel a lot of the more modern Manias have been really good. 

17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 28 I would call great shows without any hesitation really. 

I really don't remember the last time I've seen any shows older then these though but I'm pretty sure I can call 10 a great show as well just because of the 2 classic matches it has in Bret/Owen and Shawn/Razor but in all honesty I can't say anything about the quality of other matches on that card other then Savage/Crush which isn't a great match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, now people hate WrestleMania 24 here as well? FUCKING MADNESS! What is wrong with this once glorious place? 

I mean yeah, opinions are opinions, but I find it _really_ hard to dislike such a got-the-buttons-right show like WM 24, but... whatever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have to back and watch ALOT of stuff to truly have a say in "GOAT and WOAT" mania, but from what Ive seen mania 17 is overrated as fuck,


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

SKINS25 said:


> I have to back and watch ALOT of stuff to truly have a say in "GOAT and WOAT" mania, but from what Ive seen mania 17 is overrated as fuck,


I'm not really a fan of a lot of matches from that time period but even I can appreciate some of those matches. Rock/Austin was a classic, when I last watched it I think I realized that it probably is better then the match they had together at Wrestlemania 19. I'm also a big fan of Undertaker/Triple H even though it's been a while since I've seen it. And I still love the TLC match from there. I know the growing trend is to move away from liking matches like those but I'm still a fan and it's my favorite TLC match that WWE has ever had.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
WrestleMania IV - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
WrestleMania IX - 5
WrestleMania XI - 6
WrestleMania III - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5
WrestleMania 27 - 12
WrestleMania XX - 12.5
WrestleMania 29 - 13.5
WrestleMania VII - 13.5
WrestleMania X8 - 14.5
WrestleMania 13 - 14.5
WrestleMania 26 - 15.5
WrestleMania 28 - 16
WrestleMania 24 - 18
WrestleMania 21 - 19
WrestleMania 25 - 20
WrestleMania 22 - 20.5
WrestleMania X7 - 23
WrestleMania XIX - 29.5


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IDK when it comes to Wrestlemanias being great from top to bottom there aren't that many FANTASTIC shows out of them come to think of it. I mean, there are shows like VIII with a few classic matches but it has some shit on it as well. Every year we get some form of SHIT match at Wrestlemania, and I'd just prefer a card where it's consistent, that's just my thing I guess .

Which is why XIX is awesome, everything's fucking great. No other Mania besides MAYBE X-7 captures this, while there are a whole host of other shows that capture it for me. The spectacle of Mania as a fan makes me adore it on it's own though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I find WM 19 to be overrated. Just me. HBK/Jericho was awesome and McMahon/Hogan was VERY fun, other then that I don't feel the love. Rock/Austin wasn't too great IMO , Brock/Angle is just meh. Thier SS and ironman match are both better. Booker T/ Trips was AWFUL.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

King Cal said:


> WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
> WrestleMania IV - 1
> WrestleMania XV - 2
> WrestleMania V - 2
> ...


I don't think the Cal scale works with Wrestlemania. The scores are all going to be higher then other PPVs because Wrestlemanias are longer and have more matches, so they can accumulate a higher score.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

And I'll dub WM 28 to be underrated. I see more bitching about that show then praise. It was solid, of course Bryan marks hate it lol..... imagine if they gave Sheamus/ Bryan 10 minutes?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree WM 17 is the GOAT Mania personally. It does have some dopey stuff like Rock/Austin, TLC, Vince/Shane and Taker/HHH, and some other really good undercard goodies like Angle/Benoit, Jericho/Regal, Raven/Kane/Show and Eddie/Test. I only disliked the Divas match. WM 19 was more consistently good obviously, but it wasn't as much of a blockbuster and it really only had imo two ****+ matches (HBK/Jericho and Rock/Austin), whereas WM 17 has four. Which seals it for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

More mania talk, ugh.


Everyone should go watch Vader vs Steamboat from WCW Saturday Night 10-16-1993. My favorite heel vs my 2nd favorite face (behind Rey) in a classic. Probably a top 5-10 match in WCW history. It's on the History of the WHC set. Glorious. Fucking Vader. Give this man a set and documentary already. At the very least, WWE should release a set called "The Monsters" or something and have an hour and a half documentary about Bam Bam, Vader, Yoko, Henry, etc then like 15 of the best monster heel matches. Tell me you wouldn't pre order that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't pre-order it . Unless fremantle stopped being cunts and lowered their prices. I hope the WWE Network puts them out of fucking business.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> More mania talk, ugh.
> 
> 
> Everyone should go watch Vader vs Steamboat from WCW Saturday Night 10-16-1993. My favorite heel vs my 2nd favorite face (behind Rey) in a classic. Probably a top 5-10 match in WCW history. It's on the History of the WHC set. Glorious. Fucking Vader. Give this man a set and documentary already. At the very least, WWE should release a set called "The Monsters" or something and have an hour and a half documentary about Bam Bam, Vader, Yoko, Henry, etc then like 15 of the best monster heel matches. Tell me you wouldn't pre order that.


I don't think I've seen that, dya have a link?

FUCK. My immediate future (as in like, the next fifteen minutes of my life :side sounds a hell of a lot better than it did 2 minutes ago. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> I don't think I've seen that, dya have a link?
> 
> FUCK. My immediate future (as in like, the next fifteen minutes of my life :side sounds a hell of a lot better than it did 2 minutes ago. :mark:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x253uw_ricky-steamboat-vs-vader-lumberjack_sport?search_algo=2


Now can you send me a link to that Hardy/Finlay match


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=1

PLEASE LOVE IT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I need to watch that too,

In a a CAGE mood got the following lined up :

eddie/jbl
taker/batista



@Cjack which vader/steamboat is that one ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=1
> 
> PLEASE LOVE IT.



Full disclaimer, it's Finlay, so there is absolutely no way in hell I wouldn't have enjoyed it. If a match involves Foley, Eddie, Finlay, or Regal, I'm gonna love it. Ain't no way around it.

That said, what a fantastic match. THATS how you fucking sell a leg. THATS how you fucking work a limb. I had forgotten how over as a face Hardy was then. I give Matt a lot of props, Finlay was laying it in stiff and Matt was giving it right back to him on his come backs. I love the nasty, ugly faces Finlay makes when he has a dude in a chin lock. That's a face only a mother could love. I think that might be tied with the Finlay/Kane Belfast Brawl for my MoTY 2007. Might have even passed it, as I haven't seen the Kane match in months. I love how Hardy even sells the leg when he goes on the ropes, he doesn't go to the top because then he couldn't support himself. Thanks for the reccomendation man, great, great watch.


P.s. I couldn't find that match originally because the rep you sent me said it took place in 2006 


Skins- my boy, it's the Lumberjack match. Positively tremendous. Unless you are talking about the clip you posted, I can't see it for some reason...but the link I posted was the lumberjack match.

Edit- now I can see it. That's the worldwide match, another good one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader and Steamboat never had a lumberjack match.


IT'S CALLED HUMAN CAGE!!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Vader and Steamboat never had a lumberjack match.
> 
> 
> IT'S CALLED HUMAN CAGE!!!




I'm starting to think you're favorite hobby is disagreeing with me :lmao

Every post I make where there is some sort of statement, Cal is right there to humble me and prove me wrong or say my opinion is shit. I hate you 


Do you atleast agree that Steamer/Vader HUMAN CAGE MATCH is wrestling perfection, or damn close to it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck yes I do. I was pimping it long before anyone else I think. Before it was released on DVD and shit. I placed it #2 on my top 100 WCW matches list, so yeah. LOVE IT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Fuck yes I do. I was pimping it long before anyone else I think. Before it was released on DVD and shit. I placed it #2 on my top 100 WCW matches list, so yeah. LOVE IT.


(Y)(Y)

I had never seen it until they released it on the WHC set, so I'm damn sure glad they did, or else that masterpiece would have been lost on me.

If you have that top WCW matches list handy and could post it in a spoiler or something I'd really appreciate it, I'm in an early 90s WCW mood and like to look for new matches


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: top 100 wcw matches



1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997
4.	Belfast Bruiser Vs Steven Regal - Uncensored 24/03/1996
5.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993
6.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
7.	War Games - WrestleWar 17/05/1992
8.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 07/05/1989
9.	Vader Vs Ric Flair – Starrcade 27/12/1993
10.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia 18/03/1989
11.	Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
12.	Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994
13.	Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995
14.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989
15.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover 18/03/1989
16.	Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc 23/10/1995 
17.	Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
18.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX 15/11/1989
19.	Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992
20.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997
21.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
22.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
23.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 16/10/1995
24.	Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993
25.	Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
26.	Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith – Slamboree 23/05/1993
27.	War Games - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
28.	The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express Vs The Midnight Express - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
29.	Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993
30.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes – Saturday Night 21/11/1992
31.	Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
32.	Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page – Halloween Havoc 25/10/1998
33.	The Steiner Bothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990
34.	Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - SuperBrawl IV 20/02/1994
35.	Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - Saturday Night 26/09/1992
36.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson – Saturday Night 04/01/1992
37.	Finlay Vs Steven Regal – Nitro 29/04/1996
38.	Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992
39.	Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992
40.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Hog Wild 10/08/1996
41.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Nitro 20/05/1996
42.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions XVII 19/11/1991 
43.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Power Hour 16/11/1991
44.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994
45.	Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
46.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
47.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Goldberg - Nitro 19/04/1999
48.	Steven Regal Vs Ultimo Dragon - Slamboree 18/05/1997
49.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Chris Benoit - SuperBrawl VIII 22/02/1998
50.	Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 03/05/1992
51.	Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992
52.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Clash of the Champions XXVII 23/06/1994
53.	Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994
54.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988
55.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions 28/08/1994
56.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
57.	Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998
58.	Ric Flair Vs Lord Steven Regal - Worldwide 01/05/1994 to 29/05/1994
59.	Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
60.	3 Count Vs Jung Dragons Vs Jamie Knoble & Evan Karagias - Starrcade 17/12/2000
61.	Sid Vicious Vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 16/01/2000
62.	Hak Vs Bam Bam Bigelow - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999
63.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
64.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - WrestleWar 07/05/1989
65.	Stars & Stripes Vs Arn Anderson & Vader - Saturday Night 15/04/1995
66.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
67.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Raven Vs Chris Benoit - Uncensored 15/03/1998
68.	Mortis & Wrath Vs Glacier & The Cat - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997
69.	Vader Vs Cactus Jack - Main Event 07/03/1993
70.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 26/10/1998
71.	Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho Vs The Faces of Fear - Nitro 24/02/1997
72.	Sting Vs Steven Regal – Great American Bash 16/06/1996
73.	Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993
74.	Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - Saturday Night 02/05/1992
75.	Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 08/09/1997
76.	War Games - WrestleWar 24/02/1991
77.	Goldberg Vs Scott Steiner - Fall Brawl 17/09/2000
78.	Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
79.	Sting & Ric Flair Vs Vader & Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
80.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Saturday Night 28/05/1994
81.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994
82.	Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiner Brothers - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992
83.	Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989
84.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Shinjiro Ontani - Starrcade 27/12/1995
85.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Cactus Jack - Worldwide 22/02/1992
86.	Chris Jericho Vs Dean Malenko - Uncensored 15/03/1998
87.	Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990
88.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Barry Windham & Ron Simmons - Pro 09/11/1991
89.	Chris Benoit Vs Mike Enos - Souled Out 17/01/1999
90.	Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993
91.	Vader Vs Hulk Hogan - Superbrawl 19/02/1995
92.	Mean Mark Callous Vs Lex Luger - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
93.	Arn Anderson Vs Hulk Hogan – Nitro 12/02/1996
94.	Ric Flair Vs The Giant – Nitro 25/03/1996
95.	War Games - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
96.	Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
97.	Arn Anderson Vs Alex Wright - Slamboree 21/05/1995
98.	Chris Benoit Vs Jeff Jarrett - Mayhem 21/11/1999
99.	Terry Funk Vs Norman Smiley - Spring Stampede 16/04/2000
100.	Kwee Wee Vs Jason Jett – Greed 18/03/2001


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Early 90's WCW is all I've been watching for the past hour or so. Just finished watching a Rhodes/Eaton match from Power Hour and Rhodes' selling of his leg is unbelievably good. He only had to sell for three minutes or so before the match ended but everything he did he thought of the leg and it was phenomenal.

Edit:



King Cal said:


> 89.	Chris Benoit Vs Mike Enos - Souled Out 17/01/1999


:hb :hb

I owe my life to YEAH for introducing me to Mike Enos.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watch Steiners/Nasty's from HH '90.  I love that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Spoiler: top 100 wcw matches
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great list. My 1-5 would be

1. Flair/Steamboat COTC New Orleans
2. Eddie/Rey HH1997
3. Finlay/Regal Uncensored
4. Steamboat/Rude Beach Blast
5. Vader/Steamboat Saturday Night

Nearly identical to yours just a little difference in the order. I've gotta rewatch Regal/Steamboat, I honestly don't remember a thing from it.

Thanks again sir(Y)

After Regal/Steamer I think it's time Vader/Sting Strap match got another watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

early 90s wcw is the cream of the crom worldwide and sn's :mark:, 95-97 nitro deserves much praise as well

I myself have been on a ENFORCER and scotty norton binge the past couple days


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> I owe my life to YEAH for introducing me to Mike Enos.


One more on the Enos train (aka first on this site other than me and Cody). There's plenty of room. We shouldn't have used an entire train. 



Clint Eastwood said:


> Watch Steiners/Nasty's from HH '90.  I love that match.


Yeah, definitely watch that. Also watch Vader v. Bossman from Spring Stampede 94 aka best PPV ever and Arn/Dustin 1/4/92 which is a leg sell match that I would easily rank of Hardy/Finlay (and fuck yeah, Hardy/Finlay is phenomenal). Then watch Arn/Steamboat 3/28/92 in one of the greatest ten minute matches of all time. Jesus fuck was Arn Anderson good in 1992. If he had ten years at that level I think he would be up there with real GOATCs like Flair. Also Rude/Dustin 5/30/92 Super Nintendo challenge whatever should be watched. It's an actual match, not them sitting down and facing each other in Street Fighter II or speed-run racing a Link to the Past. You've seen Rude/Pillman 2/17/92? Watch that too. People talk up the OK HHH/TAKA match for heavy hitter main guy v. underdog who has no chance, but this fucking smokes and steps on its throat and then sets it on fire and makes it watch an episode of the horrible Nickelodeon show Sam and Cat.

My favourite Steamboat/Regal was the one from September, a week after Fall Brawl I think. Thiuer other matches were really good at best, bu some kind of feel flat to me. That one just hit all cylinders for ten minutes and they went ballistic. Hey! Watch that too.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Cena/Randy most likely a lock with Brock advertised for EC and the night after. Taker interference or Brock going over clean? I cannot wait :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> One more on the Enos train (aka first on this site other than me and Cody). There's plenty of room. We shouldn't have used an entire train.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just watched Vader vs. The Boss. Holy shitsnacks. Literally everything I love about pro graps in a match. Two mean bastards nearly killing each other (and in Vaders case, killing himself with that dive over the top rope.) and just giving each other everything they have. Bossman throwing Vader around like he's 200 pounds less than he actually is is a sight, as is Vader's moonsault. The backbody drop from Vader to The Boss almost ended in disaster and the sick, morbid side of me is slightly disswappointed it didn't, so close to something brutal - Still looked awesome, though. Gonna' watch Arn/Dustin now (Y)

Edit: Have you/anyone got a link for the Anr/Dustin match, I can only find their HH match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bookmarked this page for that wcw list, will try and go there some of those, will make my way up there as I dont like just seeing the BEST and ever other thing cant top it (kinda weird I know)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> One more on the Enos train (aka first on this site other than me and Cody). There's plenty of room. We shouldn't have used an entire train.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Alright already fuck it I'll watch Enos/Benoit. I've heard you and Cody blab about Enos enough I have to see what all the hub bub is about. After that Rude/Pillman sounds like my cup of tea.

And yes, Hardy/Finlay was all that. I love when WWE decides to give the wrestling nerds what we need by allowing Regal and Finlay to work 10-20 minute matches. It doesn't happen nearly often enough, obviously, but when it does, we get Cesaro/Regal levels of greatness. I wonder why Finlay doesn't show up on NXT every once in a while, with his style he could work well into his 60s and still smoke 90% of the roster for match quality. At the very least they should tag him and Regal up against some new hot shit tag team to put them in their place and get them over like a million bucks.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

WWE Network will be awesome to watch all that WCW stuff in one spot.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Alright already fuck it I'll watch Enos/Benoit. I've heard you and Cody blab about Enos enough I have to see what all the hub bub is about. After that Rude/Pillman sounds like my cup of tea.
> 
> And yes, Hardy/Finlay was all that. I love when WWE decides to give the wrestling nerds what we need by allowing Regal and Finlay to work 10-20 minute matches. It doesn't happen nearly often enough, obviously, but when it does, we get Cesaro/Regal levels of greatness. I wonder why Finlay doesn't show up on NXT every once in a while, with his style he could work well into his 60s and still smoke 90% of the roster for match quality. At the very least they should tag him and Regal up against some new hot shit tag team to put them in their place and get them over like a million bucks.


ENOS! Souled Out 99 is the PPV match with Benoit.

Also I meant to say I would rank Arn/Dustin easily *ahead* of Hardy/Finlay. So yeah, that's saying something. I think I had Arn/Dustin at #21 on my WCW list, might be higher if I did it now. I never did a WWE list but I could see Hardy/Finlay near the top 50. Had it #12 for WWE matches of 2000s, and it could hit the top 10 any time I decide it's better than Trip/Cactus or Austin/Angle.



FLUX said:


> Edit: Have you/anyone got a link for the Anr/Dustin match, I can only find their HH match.


Oddly I can't find the match online. What the hell? Fuck this, I'm uploading it right the fuck now. I'm going to be on the computer a while watching some of AGDQ anyway.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> ENOS! Souled Out 99 is the PPV match with Benoit.
> 
> Also I meant to say I would rank Arn/Dustin easily *ahead* of Hardy/Finlay. So yeah, that's saying something. I think I had Arn/Dustin at #21 on my WCW list, might be higher if I did it now. I never did a WWE list but I could see Hardy/Finlay near the top 50. Had it #12 for WWE matches of 2000s, and it could hit the top 10 any time I decide it's better than Trip/Cactus or Austin/Angle.
> 
> ...


I'd love a link if you end up uploading it, as it couldn't find it on Dm or YT. 


Btw- Enos/Benoit Souled Out was pretty darn good. I can't help but mention, Enos tapped quickly to the Crossface too, as a heel should . Those chops and slaps were bad ass, as was the back break counter early on. Mike fuckin Enos, who'd a thought?


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

The SmackDown! vs RAW match from Survivor Series 2005 is AMAZING!

Probably the best survivor series elimination match (alongside Survivor Series 2003 - Team Bischoff vs Team Steve Austin).


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

So I didn't get to watch the Bret/HBK Iron Man like I wanted to due to not being in a wrestling mood. Still looking forward to it though.

I apologize for another Mania topic, but what was your first Wrestlemania ppv? WM X in 1994 was the first Mania I saw with my family. It was very exciting time and while the Manias of the post-Hogan era aren't held in high regard barring some bright spots, I still put a stamp of love on them (that includes 11). 

One of the projects I've been cooking up was personally going through WM 9 (despite Hogan coming out on top, I lump it in with the NG era) to WM 13, along with the IYH ppvs of that period.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So just watched Benoit/Angle RR 2003 for the first time, I enjoyed it pretty well, its not AMAZING but I still enjoyed it a lot. Some of the rest holds were boring, but I thought the majority of it was fun. I'd probably go **** for it but no more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I love telling people top watch a random guy and then they like it. Anybody has seen main event matches from WWE five years ago. But a dude who wrestling primarily on WCW B-shows? That's the shit right there.


Arn/Dustin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VrOAh0A8c (somehow got matched with third party content, so IDK how long it'll be up for)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I've been in a Arn mood the past couple days, I'll give that a watch


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

FLUX said:


> http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/results/


I said I wanted it to be non spoiler.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Alright, okay...I'm gonna spend the next few days (maybe weeks) criticising the Monday Night Raw Beginning 1993-1994 DVD HERE: HERE, where they show a collection of segments/matches from these years...

Sean Mooney is outside the Manhattan Centre and he's talking about WWF stuff. Bobby Heenan shows up and Mooney says he's not invited! Apparently there's a guy called Rob Bartlett(ugh) who's taking his place on commentary. Bobby skulks off.

*KOKO B. WARE vs. YOKOZUNA w/ Mr. Fuji*
Koko at this time is the tag partner of Owen Hart as part of 'High Energy' (the tag team that lasted about six months). This is a Yoko squash. Rob Bartlee shows how inept he is by calling him 'Yokozima' and making numerous wisecracks which Vince and fellow commentator Randy Savage completely ignore. Rob Bartlett is AWFUL. Yoko squashes Koko like a grape with the Banzai Drop, building him up for the forthcoming Royal Rumble match.

MORE TO COME


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

RAW 1993-04 DVD CONTINUES...

*THE UNDERTAKER w/ Paul Bearer vs. DAMIEN DEMENTO*

YES, THE Damian Demento who is so sought after by wrestling geeks but is actually fucking shite. Opening part is so sloppy that Demento gets introduced by Fink in the middle of Undertaker's entrance. This is even before the match! Match is dogshit and so is Rob Bartlett who's only contribution is childish wisecracks which NOBODY found funny. Undertaker wins with the Tombstone after some lame offence from Demento. DUD

MORE TO COME


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That DVD is a boatload of fun. I still need to finish it... lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just rewatched Batista/Taker WM 23, and dammit this match is so fucking amazing. My favorite Batista match( yes its better than HIAC with trips IMO) and ****3/4 and my 2007 MOTY. 

Anyone else have this over all their other matches?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

NOW we're fucking talking!

*CAREER ENDING MATCH* 
*MR. PERFECT vs. RIC FLAIR*

Heenan is on commentary - yes! So is Rob Bartlett still - no! Still, that won't spoil this epic enoounter. The night before, these guy were involved in the Royal Rumble match, and Perfect eliminate Flair. God, Perfect was as good a babyface as he was a heel. True all rounder here folks. Helps that Perfect used to be Flair's manager. I just love it how Vince and Heenan completely ignore Rob Bartlett, the guffawing, clueless sack of shit that he is. 

Perfect slaps Flair after some great early exchanges. Some mat wrestling follows with Perfect on top. Both guys look completely tentative, looking for mistakes. It is career on the line after all. Action goes outside and Flair gets a chair, but the ref stops him from doing so. Flair almost belts the ref but Heenan sells it so well saying 'don't punch him Ric!' knowing that a DQ could end it all. 

Perfect does a kinda weak HBK style flop over the top turnbuckle and Flair is in control. Earl Hebner being the ref doesn't want the match to end in a countout so he guides Perfect back inside. Sleeperhold by Flair with no result. Perfect is busted open. Blood on Monday Night Raw! Sleeper hold by Perfect on Flair. Figure four by Flair! Heenan is BRILLIANT. Flair grabs the ropes because he's an excellent heel. Flair then focuses on the leg of Perfect., but doesn't last long as Perfect slams Flair from his inevitable top rope spot. 

Flair seems to blindside Perfect with a weapon from his tights but Perfect has his foot on the ropes. Heenan is going nuts. Perfect mounts a comeback. Perfect still sells his bad wheel to his credit, and he's all over Flair. This is story telling at it's finest. It;s now near-fall central. PERFECTPLEX WINS IT FOR PERFECT. Heenan goes NUTS. FLAIR IS GONE. PERFECT WINS. Flair is GONE. ****1/2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Just rewatched Batista/Taker WM 23, and dammit this match is so fucking amazing. My favorite Batista match( yes its better than HIAC with trips IMO) and ****3/4 and my 2007 MOTY.
> 
> Anyone else have this over all their other matches?


Batista vs. Taker isn't exactly an outlandish pick for 2007 MOTY, and it's probably my pick too (although I need to watch more 07 and 08). Their match at Cyber Sunday is really good too if you haven't seen it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ric Flair vs Triple H (Steel Cage) - Taboo Tuesday (★★★★½) - Just an epic bloody war. Like how they rarely tried the escape route and just beat the hell out of each other for the most of it. Flair's babyface performance here is just :mark:

Undertaker vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell) - Wrestlemania 28 (★★★★) - Not as good as it was live. A lot of it feels empty and just them hitting each other with chairs or melodramatic over the top acting by Shawn. The nearfalls are still epic and the bruises on Taker's back are just brutal. Brock/Cena is the clear MOTY now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you guys are in the mood for another WCW brawl, go watch Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck from Spring Stampede 1994. Goldy's best singles match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If people want to see what a real legendary brawl in the world of wrestling looks like; watch Rhodes vs Buck.

or Team ROH vs Team CZW from ROH's The 100th Show. But totally watch the other match plugged.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> If you guys are in the mood for another WCW brawl, go watch Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck from Spring Stampede 1994.


Oh, yeah, forgot about that. Watch the whole feud while y'all iz at it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> or Team ROH vs Team CZW from ROH's The 100th Show. But totally watch the other match plugged.


I was talking to someone about promotion feuds, and they mentioned this one to me. Never seen any CZW and only select matches from ROH so I picked this set up:

http://www.onlinesport.ro/forum/showpost.php?p=3628798&postcount=1

Looks like a good way to appreciate it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My stars. That set is brilliant.

The heat the angle brought. Absolute magic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all talking about violent, bloody wars and nobody refers Abdullah The Butcher? His matches brought everything - they even had Hepatitis for Christ sake 8*D

For the sake of it, I'm rewatching some other RR matches, and last year's was one. Holds up at ***1/2, possibly up there with 1996 and 2006 as one of the most underrated RR matches ever since it gets shit on because of the show itself (which did suck).


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> My stars. That set is brilliant.
> 
> The heat the angle brought. Absolute magic.


This is real good to but much less time consuming.
http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=103897


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Y'all talking about violent, bloody wars and nobody refers Abdullah The Butcher? His matches brought everything - they even had Hepatitis for Christ sake 8*D
> 
> For the sake of it, I'm rewatching some other RR matches, and last year's was one. Holds up at ***1/2, possibly up there with 1996 and 2006 as one of the most underrated RR matches ever since it gets shit on because of the show itself (which did suck).


I brought up Abdullah when talking about the crazy battles he had with Brody, and funnyfaces humbled me real quick by telling me what a piece of garbage that man was. I dunno, I definitely dig Brody but I just can't seem to enjoy Abdullah as much, his "magic" is lost on me. I want to enjoy his style too because of how much Foley reveres him, but it just doesn't click for whatever reason.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People discussing possible historical feuds between ADR and names like Eddie Guerrero and JBL and how amazing feuds they'd be. Well, you'd mean more like "amazing matches" because almost any and every ADR feud itself - more than just the match - kinda sucks. Plus, poor guy would get wrecked on the mic by at least 1/2 of those names mentioned. Though I guess he would likely best names like Bret Hart or Chris Benoit on the mic for sure. Oh well, that's the power of *sports entertainment*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Necro Butcher should fulfill everyone's brawler fix. Guy is a superior Abdullah/Brody.

One of the reasons why you should all be Dolph Ziggler fans is because he is the only person that made an ADR feud interesting. Not even Stone Cold Steve Austin or William freaking Regal can do that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For about a month, yeah. :lmao

Still, I am a Ziggler fan regardless. Shame he tends to put on DEM SHOWSTEALER BACK N FORTHZ once in a while. I'm too an ADR fan, but only on the ring stands. He does have most of the problems everyone points out - bleh mic skills, 0 charisma, etc. He's very good in the ring but that's about it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The only times I've ever been interested in a Del Rio feud was when he was feuding with Christian after Edge retired in 2011, and his feud with Ziggler in 2013. Del Rio is just so uninteresting and I find hard to care for any angle he's placed in. I also think he isn't as great as people make out to be in the ring, he's good, but I've heard people call him fantastic in the ring which I don't get. When has Del Rio ever had a fantastic match? If he was fantastic in the ring you would think it would at least get the crowd to care for him for his in-ring ability, but they don't. When I think of fantastic workers I think of guys like Benoit who was amazing in the ring and had the crowd invested in his matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I like Del Rio in the ring, loved both of his matches with Ziggler(mainly the PB match), I enjoy his matches with Cena and Punk, and love the SS match with Christian(the ladder match is OK)

But before this year his only goodies were vs Cena, vs Punk, and the ladder sorta. I'm not a fan of him in 2012 though, don't think he had any good PPV matches that year TBH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I really liked the NOC match w/Sheamus (though the Brogue Kick banned stip *should've* been kept), and the OTL Fatal 4-Way if that counts, but besides those, yeah ADR's 2012 PPV stuff is average at best.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

forgot about the 4 way, that was pretty fun, can't remember a thing about the NOC match, will have to rewatch


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I might be biased but I enjoyed Del Rio's matches with Orton in 2012. The HIAC match was good other than that one bit of miscommunication.



funnyfaces1 said:


> One of the reasons why you should all be Dolph Ziggler fans is because he is the only person that made an ADR feud interesting. Not even Stone Cold Steve Austin or William freaking Regal can do that.


Haha, hell no. Only thing I was "interested" in was seeing Ziggler lose the title. Del Rio constantly made him his bitch so when it was Payback time, I went in with a tiny bit of hope that he would regain the title and even with the fantastic performances by both, in the end I was only happy about that and dreaded the day when Ziggler supposedly "gets his revenge" which thankfully never happened. 8*D



Nostalgia said:


> If he was fantastic in the ring you would think it would at least get the crowd to care for him for his in-ring ability, but they don't. When I think of fantastic workers I think of guys like Benoit who was amazing in the ring and had the crowd invested in his matches.


Difference is Benoit had charisma, Del Rio just doesn't.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton match was, like I said, average at best imo. As a matter of fact, bar those two I mentioned, everything ADR on PPV wasn't that good in 2012. The MITB and SSlam matches w/Sheamus were, despite good wrestling, kinda boring; Team Foley/Team Ziggler was a poor man's Team Orton/Team Kofi; and then the 6-Man Tag from TLC was filler if there ever was filler. Del Rio was just off that year tbh.

Anyways, I wanted to discuss dem Royal Rumble events, and here's my ranking of its PPV's that I came up with:
1 - 2001
2 - 2000
3 - 2002
4 - 2007
5 - 1995
6 - 1992
7 - 2005
8 - 2009
9 - 1996
10 - 1998
11 - 1991
12 - 2008
13 - 1990
14 - 2011
15 - 2003
16 - 1994
17 - 1989
18 - 2010
19 - 1993
20 - 1997
21 - 2012
22 - 2004
23 - 2013
24 - 1999
25 - 2006

I despise the '06 Rumble, so much in fact that even '13 is above it. Was surprised at that tbh. Also surprised at how high '07, '98 and '91 ranked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
2013 Royal Rumble - 3.5
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
2001 Royal Rumble - 20

Lol, our top 13 are the same, just with slight changes in the order .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Whatever happened to that guy who wrote match reviews of Person of Interest characters?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I find the 06 rumble to be REALLY boring and it ended out having a winner who, as great as he is, didn't NEED a rumble victory


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, the 2006 Rumble match is really, really awesome imo, 2nd most underrated ever behind 1996. The PPV itself however is a stinkfest. Angle/Henry? Mickie/Ashley? JBL/Boogeyman? The Main Event's only purpose being Taker striking lightning and collapsing the ring? Fuck you WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 rumble match is average as hell. 96 rumble is terrific though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My STARZ for the Rumble matches themselves:

1988 - **1/2
1989 - ***
1990 - ****
1991 - ***3/4
1992 - ****3/4
1993 - **1/2
1994 - ***1/4
1995 - **1/4
1996 - ****
1997 - **1/2
1998 - ***3/4
1999 - **1/2
2000 - ***
2001 - ****1/4
2002 - ****1/2
2003 - ***1/2
2004 - ****1/2
2005 - ***1/2
2006 - ***3/4
2007 - ****1/4
2008 - ***3/4
2009 - ***3/4
2010 - ***1/4
2011 - ***3/4
2012 - ***
2013 - ***1/2

Dat 2001-2009 streak :mark:

EDIT: I really enjoyed it myself. Rey's entire performance, Lashley running wild (which was surprisingly enjoyable for me), RVD's return, Simon Dean, Coach getting owned, big star-power... yeah I was a fan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Problem with the 2006 Rumble match is the extremely dull middle portion. Far too many people in the ring and nothing of interest happens.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I didn't enjoy Rey in it at all really, whole time he was just like out of breath in the corner getting :berried by Hunter


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I almost had to relive the dreadful Tuxedo Match the other night :no:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really enjoy the 1996 and 1998 Royal Rumbles.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Urgh, Royal Rumble talk 

Just watched Rockers/Brainbusters MSG 1/23/89 and it was good, almost great, but I feel The Rockers dominated too much of the match and it didn't quite click. Maybe it's because of I've become so accustomed to the Southern formula and the heels dominating the match a lot more than the faces, I don't know. It's the only match between the two teams that I've seen and I can't imagine it being their best - If it is, then I'm slightly disappointed. Can anybody point me to their best match, if this wasn't it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR stars:

1988 Royal Rumble - **3/4
1989 Royal Rumble - ***
1990 Royal Rumble - ***1/2
1991 Royal Rumble - ****
1992 Royal Rumble - *****
1993 Royal Rumble - **3/4
1994 Royal Rumble - **3/4
1995 Royal Rumble - **
1996 Royal Rumble - ****1/4
1997 Royal Rumble - ***
1998 Royal Rumble - **3/4
1999 Royal Rumble - DUD
2000 Royal Rumble - ***
2001 Royal Rumble - ****1/2
2002 Royal Rumble - ****1/2
2003 Royal Rumble - ***3/4
2004 Royal Rumble - ****1/4
2005 Royal Rumble - ***3/4
2006 Royal Rumble - ***1/4
2007 Royal Rumble - ****1/4
2008 Royal Rumble - ***1/2
2009 Royal Rumble - ****1/2
2010 Royal Rumble - **
2011 Royal Rumble - ****
2012 Royal Rumble - **3/4
2013 Royal Rumble - ***1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FLUX said:


> Urgh, Royal Rumble talk
> 
> Just watched Rockers/Brainbusters MSG 1/23/89 and it was good, almost great, but I feel The Rockers dominated too much of the match and it didn't quite click. Maybe it's because of I've become so accustomed to the Southern formula and the heels dominating the match a lot more than the faces, I don't know. It's the only match between the two teams that I've seen and I can't imagine it being their best - If it is, then I'm slightly disappointed. Can anybody point me to their best match, if this wasn't it?


That is their best match, HOWEVER, I feel it's best if you watch their previous matches, mainly because of how they all build upon each other. That MSG match is like a culmination of everything they'd done prior, with The Rockers using what they'd learnt from the Brainbusters in previous matches to really get the better of them. This is what I wrote about 3 of their matches which is pretty much the "essential" series:

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

Holy fuck, who the hell is the interviewer guy at the start of this one? :lmao He looks like a mix between Paul Bearer and JR, and I'm pretty sure he was reading a cue card or something.

Is there any team better than Arn & Tully at bumping around for babyfaces? I'm sure Andy will tell me a couple of teams... but that's not the point. I'm just trying to say they are really awesome at it .

After around 7 minutes of Arn & Tully bumping around and being made to look like fools, they set up a trap for Shawn that works perfectly, and how awesome is Arn celebrating when it works? After taking a beating for so long, he is just so pleased that they finally caught one of the little bastards .

Brainbusters don't get that long to work a control segment, but they use the time they get really well, as you would and should expect. Arn continues to be awesome, one spot in particular when Shawn tries to right back and hits a sunset flip on Tully, and Arn just walks into the ring behind Shawn, shakes his head and knees him in the fucking back.

Hot tag, short finishing stretch, Rockers get the win. A good match, but I have a feeling (or rather, knowledge lol) that their matches will get better than this one. Just a sign of things to come .

Rating: ***1/4


Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

Really different match here compared to their last one, at least in terms of the structure. The first 7 minutes or so aren't all just Rockers, its very much back and forth, while still managing to give us some of the same spots and moves which isn't a bad thing here imo. The spots are just double team moves and reversals, which both look cool and are effective, so why not use them in as many matches as possible if they work?

Ya know, I really wonder how I would notice the awesomeness of Arn had Andy not done a great job of pimping him a while back. Would I have just gone on watching without really paying attention to what he was doing, or would I still be the same as I am right now; in awe of the fucker. Everything the guy does is just great. From bumping around for the babyfaces, to being a methodical and ruthless bastard in the ring, to doing simple things on the apron to help out Tully in the match. I think very highly of Tully, but damn, the guy really is in the background when Arn is around. Its no knock on Tully, its a HUGE compliment for Arn.

Second half of the match is a little more Arn & Tully in control, but still has the back and forth element in there that we saw from the beginning, and it all makes for a very interesting watch because you can just never be too sure when Arn & Tully are going to lose control, because there isn't some super long control segment where you can pretty much see the hot tag coming.

Definitely loved this match more than the first one. Its around the same length, but a completely different match, and better in almost every way too. I haven't really put too much thought into any of this, as I'm mainly watching the matches for fun and to see if they should go on my list rather than analysing them, so I honestly don't know how to put my "love" for this match into words. So fuck it, I won't bother trying because I wanna watch the next one . It awesome, and that's all there is to it!!!

Rating: ****


Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89)

Loving the progression of The Rockers in this match early on. They have wrestled the Brainbusters twice now, and are starting to really learn from them it seems. They make illegal tags behind the ref's back, and distract the ref to prevent him from seeing a legal tag from the Brainbusters. Not only are they managing to out manoeuvre them in the ring, they are slowly starting to out smart them too. The first half of this match is all Rockers, similar to their first match, except like I said, they aren't just countering the Brainbuster's moves, they are outsmarting them.

So its up to the Brainbusters to regain control by showing everyone that while The Rockers have done a good job of learning some of their tricks, they are by no means the teachers. Shawn ends up falling for the same trap as the first match, where Tully runs around the ring and Arn catches Shawn. Only difference here is that its Tully who looks smug about it working rather than Arn .

Finishing stretch is nice; a mix between the first 2 matches with the finish being the same (I think, already kinda forgot) as the second. Really loved how they took elements from their previous 2 matches and still ended up with a completely different match with a familiar feel to it. Made it even easier to watch that way.

I think I liked this one more than the BG match, and atm I am seriously considering putting this one on my list. I'll watch more tomorrow to see if it holds up!

Rating: ****1/4

They also have a match from LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89 which is pretty much the exact same as the MSG match if I'm remembering the matches correctly lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Ah it makes sense now, I was wondering why Michaels and Jannetty were making illegal tags 

Cheers, Cal. I'll probably watch the other two tonight so I can get a better feel for it (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

OR... you could like, watch every match they ever had .

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was gonna say "Why urgh", but then I remembered there are people in this thread that aren't much of Royal Rumble fans themselves... which is just mad imo :side:

How about discussing non-Rumble matches then? I'm a sucker for listing stuff so my favorite non-Rumble matches in each card:
1988 - Steamboat/Rude - **3/4
1989 - Harts & Duggan/Rougeaus & Bravo - **1/2
1990 - Valentine/Garvin - ***3/4
1991 - Rockers/Orients - ****1/4
1992 - New Foundation/Orients - ***1/2
1993 - Bret/Ramon - ***1/4
1994 - Quebecers/Harts - ****1/4
1995 - Bret/Diesel - ****1/4
1996 - Bret/Taker - ***1/2
1997 - Taker/Vader - ***
1998 - HBK/Taker - ****
1999 - Mankind/Rock - ***3/4
2000 - HHH/Cactus - *****
2001 - Benoit/Jericho - ****1/4
2002 - Jericho/Rock - ****
2003 - Lesnar/Show - ***1/2
2004 - HHH/HBK - **
2005 - JBL/Angle/Show - ***3/4
2006 - Kash/Helms/London/Funaki/Nunzio - **1/2
2007 - Cena/Umaga - ****1/2
2008 - Edge/Rey - ***1/2
2009 - Cena/JBL - ***1/2
2010 - Christian/Zeke - ***1/4
2011 - Edge/Ziggler - ***1/4
2012 - Bryan/Show/Henry - **3/4
2013 - Hell No/Rhodes Scholars - **

Damn, there are quite a lot of gems in Rumble history actually.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

UNBELIEVABLE :mark:

Edit: ATF, not that I'm not a fan of Rumble matches (although they're not great bar three or four) it's just a discussion that comes up extremely regularly, haha. I understand it's RUMBLE SEASON~! though. Any talk of it post January and I start slitting throats.

:hb


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

DiBiase should have won the Rumble in 1989. BJS? WTF?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't be silly, Flux. Post-January it's ~MANIA SEASON OJIHUGHUBIGBPÇGVVBVUB

Who cares about the Rumble by then 8*D

Btw, has anybody here watched Valentine/Garvin from 1990 Rumble? HOT DAMN. STIFFNESS.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Of course I've seen Valentine and Garvin. Even as a kiddo watching that I was like damn some of that had to hurt. 



ATF said:


> 1991 - Rockers/Orients - ****1/4
> 1992 - New Foundation/Orients - ***1/2
> 1993 - Bret/Ramon - ***1/4
> 1994 - Quebecers/Harts - ****1/4
> ...


Really like all of these. Dat wen heel turn was money. 

Taker v Rey in 2010 was pretty good too. 

unk2 and Dolph could have been great in 2012. Too much of a clusterfuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1988 - Tie between Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - ***1/4 & Glamour Girls Vs Jumping Bomb Angels - ***1/4
1989 - The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Dino Bravo Vs The Hart Foundation & Jim Duggan - ***1/2
1990 - Rugged Ronnie Garvin Vs Greg The Hammer Valentine - ***3/4
1991 - The Orient Express Vs The Rockers - ****1/4
1992 - The New Hart Foundation Vs The Orient Express - ***1/2
1993 - Bret Hart Vs Razor Ramon - ***1/4
1994 - Bret & Owen Hart Vs The Quebecers - ****
1995 - Bret Hart Vs Diesel - ****1/2
1996 - Bret Hart Vs The Undertaker - ****
1997 - Vader Vs The Undertaker - ***
1998 - Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - ****
1999 - Mankind Vs The Rock - ***3/4
2000 - Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - ****3/4
2001 - Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - ****3/4
2002 - William Regal Vs Edge - ***3/4
2003 - Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4
2004 - Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble - ** :lmao what a horrible undercard
2005 - JBL Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - ***3/4 and the Orton/HHH is a very close second
2006 - Kid Kash Vs Funaki Vs Jamie Noble Vs Nunzio Vs Paul London Vs Gregory Helms - **3/4
2007 - MNM Vs The Hardy Boys - ***1/2
2008 - Edge Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
2009 - John Cena Vs JBL - ***1/2
2010 - The Undertaker Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4
2011 - Edge Vs Dolph Ziggler - **1/2
2012 - CM Punk Vs Dolph Ziggler - **3/4
2013 - CM Punk Vs The Rock - **1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rumble listz and top rumble matchesz **** come up quite often in here

watched hulk/arn nitro 96 as I watch some of Cal Wcw list, good stuff :lmao McMongo says something along the lines of "Woman,Elizabeth, and flair at ringsides, there is enough HEEL around" lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed they do but that's because IT IS THE FUCKING ROYAL RUMBLE :cheer



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Really like all of these. Dat wen heel turn was money.
> 
> Taker v Rey in 2010 was pretty good too.
> 
> unk2 and Dolph could have been great in 2012. Too much of a clusterfuck.


And that's why he kicked his leg out of his leg. wen

Taker/Rey was indeed solidly good, but I preferred Christian bumping around like a madman to a crazy and almost useless but when in there with a capable opponent excellent-sumbitch like Big Zeke, like he did in that match.

Punk/Ziggler was a mess. A fun mess sure, but it was too much shenaniganz than anything. Despite being 5 minutes, and Henry was basically useless bar one or two moments, the Triple Threat Cage told a better story imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*THE WAR GAMES (7/4/1987) ~ Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard/Lex Luger/JJ Dillon Vs Dusty Rhodes/Nikita Koloff/The Road Warriors/Paul Ellering*

~ Dusty & Arn start out here, with Dusty busting out some simplistic offense which is sold beautifully by ARN. Keeping it simplistic, but better character work than most, that's that ARN goodness. 

~ Tully comes in and sells fantastic as well, bouncing around the cages like a madman (tripping up in the ropes a few times though, those things can be tricky, like SPIDER WEBZ)

~ Nikita Koloff sucks. Never liked him. I'll give him credit for DYING in this match though, takes two piledrivers like a boss.

~ At one point, Flair comes in and says "FUCK ALL DIS SHIT", and proceeds to grab a set of spikes for assaulting purposes.

~ THE ROAD WARRIORS MURDER JJ DILLON. THAT POOR MOTHERFUCKER GETS DESTROYED BAH GAWD :lol!

~ Yeah. This was really good. Lex Luger was here as well but I didn't think his performance jumped off the page, in the end the match was carried by Arn/Tully/Flair selling Dusty's simplistic offense and taking control in portions while LOD just fucked shit up, love the ending with them just MURDERING JJ in the cage . Holy shit, that's what wrestling is all about right there.

**** 1/2*

LOLROYALRUMBLESTARZ.​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Forget the date (I'm sure someone in here will know) but Punk and Dolph had a match a few weeks before their match at Rumble that was awesome. Dec 2011 I wanna say. 



King Cal said:


> 2007 - MNM Vs The Hardy Boys - ***1/2


You have Cena/Umaga under ***1/2?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

may check out that triple threat (henry/show/bryan) gets a mixed bag


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Forget the date (I'm sure someone in here will know) but Punk and Dolph had a match a few weeks before their match at Rumble that was awesome. Dec 2011 I wanna say.
> 
> 
> 
> You have Cena/Umaga under ***1/2?


Yep. ***1/4.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

November 21 2011 and jan 2 2012 macho


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Yep. ***1/4.



Aren't you the one who despises the finish because you think Umaga shoulda just whacked Cena with the wrench instead of it being a blatant reason to loosen the ropes? Can't say you're wrong about the logic of the whole deal, but it doesn't detract from the entire match being completely badass, IMO.

Yeah1993- you rule. Dustin/Arn was absolutely glorious. What a match. Arn Anderson ladies and gentleman. That's one guy I had zero knowledge or appreciation of before joining this thread. If Arn had a longer peak, you could make a strong case for him being a top 20 worker in US wrestling history. The guy is one of the smartest wrestlers around. Dustin is great in this match too (btw is he wearing Barry Windhams boots???? If not they must have the same boot guy) but Arn really really stands out to me as being the controlling force of the match. Don't have a STARZ rating or anything but let's just call it tremendous and leave it at that. Paul E. was fantastic on the outside as per usual.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The finish IS a major problem I have with the match, but it's not the ONLY part I don't like.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

With all this talk of Royal Rumble, I'm finally gonna watch the 1992 match to remove one more thing from my "to do" list. Will see how good it is compared to my #1 Rumble match in 2004.

Then I'll watch Punk-Rock again to witness the end of that awful reign once more. (damn, why is putting down Punk so enjoyable? :lol)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So you're going to watch a match that ends an "awful" reign yet begins what I genuinely feel is THE worst reign in history? Sounds like a waste of time to me .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> So you're going to watch a match that ends an "awful" reign yet begins what *I* genuinely feel is THE worst reign in history? Sounds like a waste of time to me .


Key word: I. That's what _you_ feel is the worst reign, not me. 

Besides, I can finally make up my mind on the match and whether it's awful, okay, decent or good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> So you're going to watch a match that ends an "awful" reign yet begins what I genuinely feel is THE worst reign in history? Sounds like a waste of time to me .



Preach. Just because I'm not a fan of a particular wrestler doesn't mean his title reign was "bad" or "awful". Punks was nowhere near as good as it should have been, but that's on booking not on him. Rocks was just incomprehensible, he had no business whatsoever being champ in 2013. None. There are very few things in wrestling that are objective, but I think I can objectively state Rocks title reign is easily top 5 worst ever.


I'm not a fan of "viper" Orton (definitely dug Legend Killer/Evolution Orton though) but even I have to admit he's been a decent champ. Now that he's not being overshadowed by the authority and having awful matches with Bryan, he's gotten himself some good heat and seems to be turning the corner in the heel ring work department. Plus he's downright good at trolling fans in his promos. He might even get a few fans to put down some money on PPV to see his has get beat once and for all. That's how a heel champ is supposed to work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be honest, I absolutely cannot see how ANYONE could think Rock's title reign was anything less than one of the single worst of all time. He was never around, and when he was he had 2 shit matches (3 if you count the one he wins it in), cut zero good promos and had terrible feuds. I can't think of a single positive for his reign as a fan. HASHTAGREALTALKBITCHES.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Honest question : What did the rock do in that reign man :lol I think you letting your dislike for punk cloud your judgement


Edit: @cjack Punk's reign was tremendous brother


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> I'll be honest, I absolutely cannot see how ANYONE could think Rock's title reign was anything less than one of the single worst of all time. He was never around, and when he was he had 2 shit matches (3 if you count the one he wins it in), cut zero good promos and had terrible feuds. I can't think of a single positive for his reign as a fan. HASHTAGREALTALKBITCHES.


The aftermath gives bad memories but Rock and Cena's feud was actually not bad at all. The two times they had face to face confrontations, the promos were good. That said, his lack of appearances and the underwhelming match quality didn't help things at all. It was not a great reign or even good, but at least it was short and its biggest positive contribution being the fact that it ended the misery once and for all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of putting misery to an end, I can't wait for Orton to drop the belt :mark: .

But seriously, his reign has been so damn uneventful and dull. The Bryan match was awesome on Raw. And... that's the only noteworthy thing I can remember from him. Going all the way back to when he first took the belt from Bryan at SS :|. Yet his reign is still around 18485766366475894003938.9048575664634 times better than Rock's.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:rock unk6 III at Wrestlemania! :vince5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think ppl take for granted Punk's year reign, the wwe belt was in terrible shape before Punk took it at svs 11. The belt was a hair above the whc in terms of prestige


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just rewatched today for the 1000000 time Wrestlemania X-Seven. Still the best WM and the best PPV of all time for me:

Jericho/Regal- **3/4, good opener, fast paced action and it told a good story
Right To Censor/APA&Taz- ** sweet and short, surprised that it didn't suck
Raven/Show/Kane- ***1/4, I always loved the backstage brawls and this hardcore match was super fun, really liked the ending
Eddie/Test- *1/2, worst match of the night and it really wasn't super bad
Angle/Benoit- ****, it was Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit in a 15 mintues match at WM, of course it was awesome
Chyna/Ivory- N/A
Vince/Shane- ***1/2 this match really had some amazing storytelling, and I think more than 3 feuds clashed here, add some Shane's bumps and a decent match and you have a very good street fight
TLC Match- ****3/4, a masterpiece, nothing more to say really
Undertaker/HHH- ***3/4, this match is really underrated imo, probably because their rematches were better. Really liked the near-falls here
Austin/Rock- *****, I might overrate this, I know but aside from the Taker/HBK matches this is my favourite match of all-time. It really has everything and it was the main-event of my fav. PPV so give me a break


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

> 1988 - Tie between Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - ***1/4 & Glamour Girls Vs Jumping Bomb Angels - ***1/4
> 1989 - The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Dino Bravo Vs The Hart Foundation & Jim Duggan - ***1/2
> 1990 - Rugged Ronnie Garvin Vs Greg The Hammer Valentine - ***3/4
> 1991 - The Orient Express Vs The Rockers - ****1/4


I feel like such a nerd when I see someone post ratings for matches that I just watched and almost all are within 1/2* of my ratings.

I haven't posted mt review for Rockers/Orient Express yet but I think I would have the same exact rating as you if Jannetty didn't give some or THE WORST dropkicks ever in the match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Speaking of putting misery to an end, I can't wait for Orton to drop the belt :mark: .
> 
> But seriously, his reign has been so damn uneventful and dull. The Bryan match was awesome on Raw. And... that's the only noteworthy thing I can remember from him. Going all the way back to when he first took the belt from Bryan at SS :|. Yet his reign is still around 18485766366475894003938.9048575664634 times better than Rock's.


You can blame it on The Authority always overshadowing him and his PPV matches. I don't know why he and Bryan were unable to click in the ring until the recent Raw match but for everything else... there was just so much shenanigans surrounding him that it could be hard to care. Ever since they let him stand on his two feet after Survivor Series and that crappy Big Show feud no one cared about, he's been pretty good. Awesome promos weekly and he looks motivated again. TLC match was safely worked but outside of that, his matches with Bryan and Ziggler were good plus all the promos he has cut since then.

If only we get Brock/Orton at Elimination Chamber. :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Agreed skins. ADR was making the WWE title kind of boring. 

unk4 had a great title reign. The triple threat with ADR & Miz was good, a decent little feud with Dolph, a good feud and great matches with Jericho, excellent matches with Bryan, a fun heel turn and I loved NoC match with :cena2 , Some fun heel shenanigans at HiaC and Survivor Series, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> You can blame it on The Authority always overshadowing him and his PPV matches. I don't know why he and Bryan were unable to click in the ring until the recent Raw match but for everything else... there was just so much shenanigans surrounding him that it could be hard to care. Ever since they let him stand on his two feet after Survivor Series and that crappy Big Show feud no one cared about, he's been pretty good. Awesome promos weekly and he looks motivated again. TLC match was safely worked but outside of that, his matches with Bryan and Ziggler were good plus all the promos he has cut since then.
> 
> If only we get Brock/Orton at Elimination Chamber. :mark:


I don't think Orton has or will have any real opportunity to have a good title reign this time around. So far it's been dull and crappy outside of the Bryan match like I already said, and moving forward we still have another fucking Cena match. Urgh. Between shitty opponents, horrible angles and the Authority making him their bitch, I'm not even sure Orton could have done a good job so far had he actually been 100% motivated again. If the Brock match does actually happen, while I'm not exactly thrilled of the prospect, it'll be the only interesting thing he'll have the chance to do so far with his reign. And I dread to think where he'll end up come WM. I keep seeing Punk mentioned as a possible opponent (I avoid spoilers so I have no idea of what might be planned, but I've seen it mentioned in here a few times), and god I hope that isn't the case. They have no chemistry together (just like all of Orton's opponents so far... so I guess it would be a fitting end to his reign :lmao) and doesn't "feel" like a WRESTLFUCKINGMANIA THIRTY THE BIG FUCKING THREE OHHHH match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

To give the devil his dues, he had a good match with Goldust.

But everyone has good matches with Goldust.

Goldust gonna Goldust.

GOLDUST.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since Batista's return was confirmed, he is actually the biggest rumor for Orton's WM opponent. They don't have a classic together but you never know what to expect so I remain optimistic. If the Brock match happens, I'm expecting great things because Orton would definitely not coast with such a huge opportunity and who knows what the Cena rematch has to offer. It could turn out to be another No Way Out, obviously not as good but good enough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh god Batista might be Orton's opponent? That might be one of the least appealing matches I can think of for Orton in terms of main eventers for him to wrestle.

I hope we get an Elimination Chamber match for the WWEWHC rather than a singles match. Because like... how else are they gonna use the EC? RR winner goes to WM for the title, so no need for a #1 contenders match. That leaves the title being on the line inside the chamber. BROCK LESNAR IN THE FUCKING CHAMBER :mark:. That would be epic.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

BEST OF MONDAY NIGHT RAW 1993-94 DVD REVIEW CONTINUATION

*'THE NARCISSIST' LEX LUGER MAKES HIS FIRST RAW APPEARANCE*
Luger is out here, but not for a match. Some eagle eyed viewers will see Money Inc. with Jimmy Hart lurking outside the ring in the background. McMahon points out that Luger made a 'very impressive debut' at the Royal Rumble, despite the fact that he never actually competed in a match. He just posed in front of a mirror while being interviewed by Bobby Heenan.

:vince It's impressive, dammit!

Anyway - Luger is in the ring and he's posing in front of a mirror which was already in the ring. McMahon states that having an impressive physique is nothing to write home about, to put over the Narcissist character. He must've felt like a Judas inside that head of his for denouncing bodybuilders everywhere. A rather rotund ring girl is parading around the ring carrying a 'Why cook at home? We've got it RAW' sign, which disgusts the heavenly Luger. Well, wouldn't you? FAT PEOPLE ARE DISGUSTING MONSTERS. 

They cut to a break, and - oh. In fact, Luger IS in a match.

*'THE NARCISSIST' LEX LUGER vs. 'JOBBER' JASON KNIGHT*
While Luger is busy having puppies in the ring, we cut away to another segment before the match begins: 

Steve Jordan of the Minnesota Vikings is on the screen, and he's with Mr. Perfect. They're inside a gym on a makeshift football field. This leads to Perfect throwing the ball to Jordan across the field a few times, with some cheesy big band music in the background. Jordan says that Perfect is 'a perfect passer', but Perfect responds by saying that 'he hasn't seen anything yet'. What follows is a breathtaking piece of speed, awareness and skill from Perfect that defies physics. Fucking cheesy as hell but I find nearly every Mr. Perfect segment great as he was damn entertaining. Jordan: 'Wow, did you see that? What a throw! What a catch! That was unbelievable!'
Perfect: 'No no no...that was PERFECT!'

Anyway, BACK TO THE MATCH. This is Jason Knight before his 'Sexiest Man Alive' ECW days with Justin Credible. Match is sloppy as fuck, with the 'bionic forearm' barely connecting with Knight's head, so Luger goes 'ooooh no that's not enough yet!' and proceeds to nail him again. Luger pins Knight with his pinky finger. Just a nothing squash. DUD. McMahon and Savage continue to no sell that idiot Bartlett, who continues with his brainless anecdotes. Ahhhhhhh I see, so the Perfect segment earlier was to set up a feud between Luger and himself. It all makes sense.

Come to think of it - why WERE Money Inc. out there in the first place?

MORE TO COME


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

One third of the 1992 Royal Rumble and :lmao @ Tito Santana coming out to Alberto del Rio's music.



King Cal said:


> I hope we get an Elimination Chamber match for the WWEWHC rather than a singles match. Because like... how else are they gonna use the EC? RR winner goes to WM for the title, so no need for a #1 contenders match. That leaves the title being on the line inside the chamber. BROCK LESNAR IN THE FUCKING CHAMBER :mark:. That would be epic.


Rumble winner can just defend their title shot inside the chamber. I would be fine with a chamber match with BROCK but no, not at the expense of my #1 dream match involving roster members.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Nah, Santana's El Matador music is different to ADR's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I could see the Rumble match winner defending his WM title shot in the chamber, depending on who wins. If it's someone who the AUTHORITY are against then it can be a way of stacking the odds and shit. But still, LESNAR IN THE CHAMBER is what I want :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Nah, Santana's El Matador music is different to ADR's.


They've edited it and replaced it with Del Rio's theme, though. :lol

13:40







King Cal said:


> I could see the Rumble match winner defending his WM title shot in the chamber, depending on who wins. If it's someone who the AUTHORITY are against then it can be a way of stacking the odds and shit. But still, LESNAR IN THE CHAMBER is what I want :mark:.


Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. Batista wins the Rumble, has a problem with the Authority so he defends his shot and retains it to face Orton at WM. Makes sense plus it's got EVOLUTION all over it.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 13:40


:lmao What in the fuck?

THE WARLORD COMES OUT TO TRIPLE H'S MUSIC HAHAHAHAHAHHA


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DAT infamous WWE editing. :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm an Evolution fan, but I will flip my shit if WWE gives us Orton vs. Batista at WM30 (unless they give me every other match I want at the event). I'm still a fan of Orton (not as much as when he had DAT SPIKED HAIR obviously), and I'd much rather have him face anyone other than Dave.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think that's WWE's editing... . Especially considering they didn't start doing entrance themes in RR matches until the mid-late 90's .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Batista vs. Orton works for me, seeing as I don't want both of them taking up 30 minutes in two, seperate crappy match. 

One crappy 15 minute match > Two crappy 15 minute matches


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The 1992 Royal Rumble is officially over now! :flair3

FLAIR is boss and BOBBY is a legend. That's all. Still doesn't beat 2004 but it's great. Couldn't help but :lol @ all the dubbed over music.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal of course is correct RE: the music. Why did WWE even add in the music that wasn't originally there lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FLUX said:


> Batista vs. Orton works for me, seeing as I don't want both of them taking up 30 minutes in two, seperate crappy match.
> 
> One crappy 15 minute match > Two crappy 15 minute matches


Well you certainly have a point lol . Get 2 of the shitty guys out of the way in a match together and leave everyone else to have good matches. I'm warming up to Batista Vs Orton now .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Batista's not gonna wrestle the dream match against BROCK (because I'd rather Brock/Taker obvz), then he should go against Sheamus or somebody and stay away from the WWE Championship... Well at least he'd take the belt off of Orton so yeah I'm all for Batista/Orton .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Yeah1993- you rule. Dustin/Arn was absolutely glorious. What a match. Arn Anderson ladies and gentleman. That's one guy I had zero knowledge or appreciation of before joining this thread. If Arn had a longer peak, you could make a strong case for him being a top 20 worker in US wrestling history. The guy is one of the smartest wrestlers around. Dustin is great in this match too (btw is he wearing Barry Windhams boots???? If not they must have the same boot guy) but Arn really really stands out to me as being the controlling force of the match. Don't have a STARZ rating or anything but let's just call it tremendous and leave it at that. Paul E. was fantastic on the outside as per usual.


Arn is pretty easily a top 20 in US. I'm not putting any thought into who is better right now (might come up with a list if someone says I should), but I'd actually be surprised if I came up with 20. 

Was Dustin wearing those 'butterfly'-looking boots? A lot of Texans wore those.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You should.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Batista Vs Lesnar is a dream match? More like Nightmare Match. Batista shouldn't have come back. There is practically nobody I'd care to see him face.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Royal Rumble 1991

Knowing that the GOAT Rumble is after this should hopefully make this a lot easier to watch. 


*The Orient Express w/Mr. Fuji vs. The Rockers*

I loved this so much. It's hard to believe that it took place in a WWF ring in 1991. The Rockers played amazing faces and Shawn was fantastic. The pacing was fast but this was far from just spots. I've been listening to the Stone Cold Steve Austin show and he likes talking about psychology in matches. To use a phrase from Austin, this is an example of advanced psychology. Yeah, they had a control segment but it wasn't one sided as Michaels would get these spurts of explosive offense that the crowd loved. I was also happy that the Orient Express didn't cheat very much. They looked tough after the match and the Rockers looked great because they beat them. It's not the classically worked style of match that you see a lot of but I will take something as fun and exciting as this over any of the 4 million Midnight Express vs. Rock n' Roll Express matches. I would rate it even higher if it didn't feature some absolutely terrible drop kicks from Marty Jannety.
******


*The Big Bossman vs. The Barbarian w/Bobby Heenan*

About half way through the match I had this earth shattering revelation that the Big Bossman might not actually suck. He gave a really good babyface performance and he was able to do a few things that you don't normally see big guys do. Barbarian was pretty good as well. I'm pretty sure he only ever plays a monster heel and he can do that well enough and the fact that he was in with someone that was able to do power moves to him also helped. The match was pretty short but it had great pacing. When 2 big guys wrestle they need to avoid having a slow match. If they slow down for too long I feel like the match almost always ends up boring. They kept the pace up and they had a strong heel/face dynamic. 
*****


_WWF Championship Match_: 
*Sergeant Slaughter vs. The Ultimate Warrior*

The first few minutes of the match were pretty fun as Slaughter did a great job of selling for the Warrior's offense. After that this went downhill pretty quickly. Savage appearing was fun but it led to a pretty boring control segment from Slaughter and the match pretty much ended as soon as Warrior started his comeback. At least the beginning was fun.
**3/4*


*Koko B. Ware vs. The Mountie w/Jimmy Hart*

I don't mean to insult the match, well maybe a little bit, but the best part of the match was when Jimmy Hart decided to talk shit to Koko's bird Frankie. I think I would rather talk about Frankie then the match. That bird is so cool. Every time the camera would cut to him it was great. I got more and more jealous of Koko B. ware as the match wore on because I realized he got to hang out with this bird all the time. You know what would be great? If the bird was trained to attack Koko's opponent. Now that would be a great gimmick. In regards to the match it was pretty bad but the finishing stretch was pretty OK so I guess it wasn't all bad. 
***


*"The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase and Virgil vs. Dusty and Dustin Rhodes *

When I looked at the card I was really excited for this match. Then I realized that this was right before the DiBiase/Virgil feud was about to start. Thankfully after the first few minutes of DiBiase telling Virgil what to do and basically being an asshole coach in his corner they settled down and worked a solid tag match. Dustin worked a segment where he had an injured leg and he sold it really well before he made the hot tag. The fact remains that this was only on the card to build up the Virgil face turn that was going to happen right after this match.
**1/2* 


*The Royal Rumble Match*

I really didn't like this. It seems like they were more concerned with keeping everyone in the match for long period of time instead of making the match entertaining. Most of the match they hovered around 10 people. There just weren't very many interesting moments either. Also while I knew who would win the match the outcome couldn't have been any more obvious. Nobody else had a chance at winning this match aside from Hogan. I dozed off for a little bit towards the end so I know I missed some stuff but I doubt it was anything too amazing. The match was lacking in star power and also in good workers because the under card had some big names in it. Also Savage no showed so that didn't help things either. 
***1/4 *​

Decent enough show. The opener was fantastic and I was shocked at how much I liked Bossman/Barbarian.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> You should.


ffs. :side:

I'll make my criteria is 'Worked Mostly in US' so I avoid putting people like Hansen on the list (Funk has enough in the US stay), and I'll spread it into catergories b/c I feel comfortable with categories when it comes to shit like this.

Better/don't need to REALLY think about it (I actually hesitated on a lot of them but fuck it):

Ric Flair
Jerry Lawler
Terry Funk
Bill Dundee
Eddie Guerrero
Rey Mysterio
Ricky Steamboat
Barry Windham
Fit Finlay
Chris Benoit
William Regal
Randy Savage
Vader

Maybes, Not positives, would have to watch and think about it, or haven't seen too much of their work in a whiles:

Dick Murdoch 
Ricky Morton
Bryan Danielson
Bret Hart
Bob Backlund
Steve Austin
Bobby Eaton

Theses guys are great and probably/likely better than Arn but I'd need to watch more before saying so with confidence:

Buddy Rose
Nick Bockwinkel


This could change endlessly and I had to shift A LOT people around. OK, I got 22 overall, but I doubt I'd rank everybody there ahead of Arn in the long run and I have only 13 in the first category. Then again there are more like Dustin Rhodes who I feel bad for not isting. Whatever. Anderson's a 1000% contender for top 20 US is the point I was trying to get at.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Batista Vs Lesnar is a dream match? More like Nightmare Match. Batista shouldn't have come back. There is practically nobody I'd care to see him face.


Batista/Bryan, Batista/Cesaro & Batista/Reigns are matches I'd like to see down the line.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I just hope Batista has a good match if he indeed does have a match against BROCK.

If Brock doesn't win at Mania I might be quite pissed.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

YEAH1993, can you recommend some Bill Dundee matches, please? He's the only guy from that first list that I'm not exactly familiar with.

I'd love to create a list of my favourite workers of all time, like top X or whatever, but I don't think I could. If only there was a thorough, logical and sensible way of actually going about it. Would involve a hell of a lot of work, I imagine. I mean, I could just list them and throw names in there, but there'd be no rhyme or reason for the majority. If I find a way of actually creating the list and find a logical way of watching matches and then ordering the workers, then I'd probably go about doing it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> ffs. :side:
> 
> I'll make my criteria is 'Worked Mostly in US' so I avoid putting people like Hansen on the list (Funk has enough in the US stay), and I'll spread it into catergories b/c I feel comfortable with categories when it comes to shit like this.
> 
> ...



Replace Bill Dundee (not because he isn't great, but because I haven't seen nearly enough of him to rate him properly) with Mick Foley and The Undertaker and that first list would be absolutely identical to a "Best US Wrestlers of All Time". That's downright eerie. Or maybe it isn't, most if not all of those guys should be no brainers tbh. What about Ray Stevens though? Sgt, Slaughter? They might be up there for me too.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Brock's losing at Mania to 99 %. He'll be gone for the rest of the year and Batista will stick around. If Brock's either facing Batista or Taker he's obviously losing. Though they should pay him another million to work Summer Slam too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretty sure Ive seen you post that list a couple of times Yeah


I wouldnt put Bret or Dbryan YET over Arn but that my opinion. Couldnt really get into Backlund stuff THAT much so idk, and we have had a conversation about Savage, I know your very high on him.

I would also have Shawn Michaels on there ( He is actually #1 for me)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> Brock's losing at Mania to 99 %. He'll be gone for the rest of the year and Batista will stick around. If Brock's either facing Batista or Taker he's obviously losing. Though they should pay him another million to work Summer Slam too.


Well I wouldn't be mad if he were to face Undertaker haha, but Batista is a different story.

So I started watching Survivor Series 2004 last night & the Cruiserweight & IC Title matches are great still, especially the IC title.

Then here comes the SmackDown Survivor Series match & wow I did not remember that match being so boring, but at least Team Angle just gets squashed haha.\

Next is Heidenreich vs Undertaker :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though Brock is working three straight PPV's, id hope he still works Summerslam. I couldn't cope with no more Brock this year after Mania.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> YEAH1993, can you recommend some Bill Dundee matches, please? He's the only guy from that first list that I'm not exactly familiar with.


v. Lawler 6/6/03, 12/30/85, 7/14/86 (all LLTs), 10/19/85 (not LLt)
v. Koko Ware (scaffold match, but it's awesome)
w/Landel v. Lawler/Mantel 3/10/86
v. Tony Charles (1979)
w/Terry Daniels v. the Dirty White Boys 11/5/85
w/Lawler v. Original Midnight Express 10/3087 (I haven't actually seen this one but I heard it was great and how could not be)

Fine starting point, probably. Lawler/Dundee is a contender for best match-up in wrestling history.



Cactus Jack said:


> Replace Bill Dundee (not because he isn't great, but because I haven't seen nearly enough of him to rate him properly) with Mick Foley and The Undertaker and that first list would be absolutely identical to a "Best US Wrestlers of All Time". That's downright eerie. Or maybe it isn't, most if not all of those guys should be no brainers tbh. What about Ray Stevens though? Sgt, Slaughter? They might be up there for me too.


I thought about Slaughter but I think Arn is almost definitely better. Stevens I have almost nothing of and don't even remember what I've seen, so I've seen practically nothing. I don't think Foley and Taker even come close to Arn, tbph. Foley crossed my mind for a *split* second, but yeah, I think Arn is easily ahead.



SKINS25 said:


> Pretty sure Ive seen you post that list a couple of times Yeah
> 
> 
> I wouldnt put Bret or Dbryan YET over Arn but that my opinion. Couldnt really get into Backlund stuff THAT much so idk, and we have had a conversion about Savage, I know your very high on him.
> ...


Where have I posted it? I literally just wrote it up.

I honestly doubt I'll take Bret over Arn, but I haven't seen Bret's peak in so long so that might be factoring. Danielson....IDK. He deserves a shout but I'm not as into him as others. Still I have to try to put bias aside, and he might be better than Arn.

I would have more people that I didn't even list in that post above Michaels (Terry Gordy, Brian Pillman, Mick Foley, Greg Valentine, Tully Blanchard among others).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> v. Lawler 6/6/03, 12/30/85, 7/14/86 (all LLTs), 10/19/85 (not LLt)
> v. Koko Ware (scaffold match, but it's awesome)
> w/Landel v. Lawler/Mantel 3/10/86
> v. Tony Charles (1979)
> ...


IDK if it was you but I saw someone post a list very similar to yours before, or maybe I'm just imagining it 

Yea Ive been known to give Bret a hard time, I dont think he is bad far from it actually but I believe there are some out there leagues better in that category

Off the top of my head if I had to make one (US only)

Sette in stone, I know for a fact

1)Shawn (his 90s stuff + rockers put him over for me)
2)Naitch
3) Steamboat
4) Benoit
5) Lawler

then it all these can be interchange able

vader
eddie
rey
windham
arn
regal
finley
austin


Since your the guy w/ the knowledge  Only one of these guys I you mention besides dundee I'm unknowing to is Funk, any rec ? I dont need his TOPS stuff just to get a better understanding Ive seen the naitch matches btw


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I just hope Batista has a good match if he indeed does have a match against BROCK.
> 
> If Brock doesn't win at Mania I might be quite pissed.



As of right now, I have more confidence in Brock Lesnar having a great match over any other guy on the roster, Danielson and Cesaro included. With Brock's style, character, and ability, I'm pretty sure he could drag a great match out of Kofi Kingston or Khali at this point, no joke. He just needs to do that cocky "I'm the baddest mother fucker on the planet" walk around the ring while laying a vicious beat down on a guy and taunt/belittle him and I'll be thoroughly entertained. Brock doing "his thing" aka heeling it up like a boss is the most entertaining thing in the WWE right now. Nothing beats Lesnar just being himself and kicking someone's ass.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness Rick Rude was not on that list. Surprised Curt Hennig didn't make it though. Glad that :bryan2 made it. I am 100% confident that when Bryan retires, he will be the consensus pick for greatest wrestler of all-time. Nobody in wrestling has the catalog that he has at the age of 32.

Now all of you guys go watch some Doug Furnas.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgot about Henning, he would be in my next tier w/ taker/foley/eaton/pillman/bryan , I feel like I need a Big Guy ( Skins LOVES The fatties) I have vader but

Not that impressed w/ rude either from what Ive seen


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rude needs more years like the incredible 1992 to be in contention. Even then, Arn in 1992 was even better than he was. I don't like some of Hennig's WWF run when he was an overselling, uninteresting heel. Need to watch more of him in AWA.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Whats the best of Windham?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Whats the best of Windham?


His matches with Flair are special. Everyone cites the BOTB II match as their best match together, but I actually thought their other two in 1987 are even better and legitimate five star matches. If you want something shorter, then his matches with Pillman and Too Cold Scorpio are also good. Some people also like his match with Regal, but I thought it was a DUD.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just rewatched Brock/Show RR 03, and fuck that was awesome, I'm gonna go high on it and give it ****, I really liked it, I like all their matches so its no surprise though. 

About to watch the rumble match, looking forward to it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Adore Arn, but I know I'd personally stick Eaton over him. Not like that's a stretch or a shocker or even brings down Arn in the slightest. I'm talking about Bobby Eaton here. It's close, but yeah. Small potatoes between two greats.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS25 said:


> IDK if it was you but I saw someone post a list very similar to yours before, or maybe I'm just imagining it


Was probably me doing a different list. I tend to lay lists like that out into those three sections whenever I make one.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Whats the best of Windham?


v. Flair 2/14/86, 1/20/87, 4/11/87
v. Murdoch 7/11/87
w/Luger v. Arn/Tully Clash 3/27/88, 4/20/88
w/Flair v. MX Clash 12/7/88
w/Flair v. Steamboat/Gilbert 3/25/89
w/Arn v. Doom Starrcade 90
WarGames 91
v. Pillman 3/23/91, 4/6/91, SuperBrawl 91, there's another one or two I forget (I don't think they have a single match that went ten minutes, but it was an excellent series of short matches) 
w/Dustin v. Austin/Zbyszko SuperBrawl 92
WarGames 92
v. Arn 6/6/92
w/Dustin v. MVC 10/3/92
w/Pillman v. Steamboat/Zbyszko Starrcade 92
v. 2 Cold Scorpio Clash 6/16/93

Doubt I hit all of the best (and thee's some shit I haven't even seen), and some of that isn't *really* his best, but yeah, watching that should make you see why Windham has all timer talk.



HayleySabin said:


> Adore Arn, but I know I'd personally stick Eaton over him. Not like that's a stretch or a shocker or even brings down Arn in the slightest. I'm talking about Bobby Eaton here. It's close, but yeah. Small potatoes between two greats.


Eaton is godlike so saying someone isn't as good as him is no slight, yeah. I put him in the maybe, but might say no because I think Arn's way better in singles and I think it's competitive in tags (though realistically that's more than likely Eaton's award to take). It definitely is close overall, though. I might watch stuff for the 80s and come out thinking Eaton is definitely better. He's Bobby Eaton, ffs.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

What do you guys think of Barry Windham vs. Luger at Great American Bash 7/14/91? Liked it. Liked the feeling out process, and how they both seemed to be sizing each other up, even ten minutes into the match, lol.

That may annoy some people, but I wasn't expecting much in that vein from Luger.


ETA: I'm talking about their steel cage match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To celebrate this match's 10th year anniversary, I rewatched it. Still absolutely and fun to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW C/D list shows didn't even exactly give Eaton too much to do on the singles front. Which I was always a bit bummed out by. By the time he got done w/his tag work within the company, they moved him down to that excellent dude who didn't get enough exposure even on the lower shows to do what he needed. Perhaps I need to find myself some more gems out there from his latter WCW career. Maybe he got to work vs a random cruiserweight on some show. idk why, but I'll keep my fingers crossed they put Eaton vs Billy Kidman on a Saturday Night or Worldwide.

Fuck thinking about all this got me thinking about how much I love watching those Arn gems on the other WCW shows. Found one against Scott Norton from Worldwide in 1996 and it was AWESOME. I love these guys. Arn's tag work is something else too. For some reason I feel a lot of his praise doesn't come from acknowledging that area of his game. The reverse Eaton, scenario. Makes sense to bring 'em up for me, I suppose. I'm probably rambling. TV is really loud atm & this damn Football is distracting as I'm trying to talk icons. Arn is stellar. Duh. I agree w/anyone having this opinion.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know 4/11/87 flair/windham IMO is the best of the series. But I never knew if I was watch the full match. Its about 17 mins long, anybody know if its true


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> What do you guys think of Barry Windham vs. Luger at Great American Bash 7/14/91? Liked it. Liked the feeling out process, and how they both seemed to be sizing each other up, even ten minutes into the match, lol.
> 
> That may annoy some people, but I wasn't expecting much in that vein from Luger.


Was that the cage? I honestly thought it was pretty much garbage and Luger heavily outperformed an almost lazy as hell Windham. Luger's approximately seven million times better than he gets credit for anyway and at his best is really fucking good, but I remember thinking that it was a bad showing from Barry. That wasn't even Luger at his best so even if he was a guy who would easily carry other wrestlers (and he wasn't), he was in the wrong year.



HayleySabin said:


> WCW C/D list shows didn't even exactly give Eaton too much to do on the singles front. Which I was always a bit bummed out by. By the time he got done w/his tag work within the company, they moved him down to that excellent dude who didn't get enough exposure even on the lower shows to do what he needed. Perhaps I need to find myself some more gems out there from his latter WCW career. Maybe he got to work vs a random cruiserweight on some show. idk why, but I'll keep my fingers crossed they put Eaton vs Billy Kidman on a Saturday Night or Worldwide.
> 
> Fuck thinking about all this got me thinking about how much I love watching those Arn gems on the other WCW shows. Found one against Scott Norton from Worldwide in 1996 and it was AWESOME. I love these guys. Arn's tag work is something else too. For some reason I feel a lot of his praise doesn't come from acknowledging that area of his game. The reverse Eaton, scenario. Makes sense to bring 'em up for me, I suppose. I'm probably rambling. TV is really loud atm & this damn Football is distracting as I'm trying to talk icons. Arn is stellar. Duh. I agree w/anyone having this opinion.


Bobby Eaton v. Dean Malenko from 97 is apparently one of the best WCW low-tier-show matches. I might have it on disc. Eaton had a pretty good babyface singles run around 1990/1991 (I like the Flair matches and Arn match at SuperBrawl), but seeing him turn heel and join the Dangerous Alliance felt too right. My God what a group that was, WCW 92 is still my favourite company year in history and they're responsible for over 80% of it. 

I need to see more mid-late 90s Eaton. I keep forgetting he even had that run. I did find Eaton and la Parka in the same match six months ago..........



> La Parka/Silver King v. Bobby Eaton/Kenny Kaos (Saturday Night 1/9/99)
> Do you know how many times I’ve thought to myself ‘I want to see la Parka and Bobby Eaton match up’? Zero. Do you know how much I want to see la Parka and Bobby Eaton match up now? A hell of a lot, and it delivers pretty well. Most guys will throw a clothesline to Park after he struts to them. Bobby Eaton just throws an amazing slap and shoves him toward the mat. Eaton was still an awesome seller in 1999, apparently, and it’s even more impressive when you consider the fact that’s he’s called on to work in a babyface tag team with a random Power Plant guy. Kaos was a fine big dude who wipes people out, and I wished Eaton played FIP for all of this before tagging him, because he seems like a natural hot tag guy (also Eaton’s selling rules enough to be FIP, which we saw in flashes here). Oddly enough there seemed to be, like, three two minute FIP spells (and one including Parka playing FIP…..). Why do that? Oh well, this got enough time to deliver something cool and it did. Park’s double team double stomp to Eaton was great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is the arn/norton match the one scotty works the arm the whole time ? if so yea its :mark:


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thank goodness Rick Rude was not on that list. Surprised Curt Hennig didn't make it though. Glad that :bryan2 made it. I am 100% confident that when Bryan retires, he will be the consensus pick for greatest wrestler of all-time. Nobody in wrestling has the catalog that he has at the age of 32.
> 
> Now all of you guys go watch some Doug Furnas.


Watching my way through 1997 at the minute and the Furnas & LaFon vs Owen & Bulldog matches are :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I remember watching all of those C and D WCW shows as a kid. I didn't really care who was wrestling if there was a WCW wrestling show I would watch it. There are quite a few people that I only knew of from those shows. I just wish I had actually been able to appreciate them when I was a kid. 

I remember watching WCW Saturday Night as a kid when Sid was the champion. At the start of the show they said he was going to defend the title on the show. I watched that whole damn show and was so excited to see the champion actually wrestle on the show. He wrestled a luchador and just hit him with the power bomb and immediately won.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> *RE-RANKING YEAH'S TOP GUYS*
> 
> Ric Flair
> Rey Mysterio
> ...


Something like that for me, w/out much thought to be honest though .

Just wondering where Mark Henry, BROCK Lesnar, John Cena, CM Punk, & Big Show would fall under your own personal lists for all time work?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good Lord that name Ricky Steamboat is :mark: two all time greats had it


Yea those 5 would be up high on my list


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Bobby Eaton v. Dean Malenko from 97 is apparently one of the best WCW low-tier-show matches. I might have it on disc. Eaton had a pretty good babyface singles run around 1990/1991 (I like the Flair matches and Arn match at SuperBrawl), but seeing him turn heel and join the Dangerous Alliance felt too right. My God what a group that was, WCW 92 is still my favourite company year in history and they're responsible for over 80% of it.
> 
> I need to see more mid-late 90s Eaton. I keep forgetting he even had that run. I did find Eaton and la Parka in the same match six months ago..........


Is that match online? Please tell me yes.

Eaton's only "real" singles run from the early 90's was good. Look back on it fondly b/c it was the only time he really got the chance to shine in that department. Worth it that it was only cut to join the Dangerous Alliance. Company still found worth in him so they grouped him in what is always going to be the greatest faction ever _(yeah, even over Horsemen for this comparison)_ & that pleases me. He continued to roll w/great matches; all I care about.



SKINS25 said:


> is the arn/norton match the one scotty works the arm the whole time ? if so yea its :mark:


That's the one. (Y)



TaylorFitz said:


> I remember watching all of those C and D WCW shows as a kid. I didn't really care who was wrestling if there was a WCW wrestling show I would watch it. There are quite a few people that I only knew of from those shows. I just wish I had actually been able to appreciate them when I was a kid.
> 
> I remember watching WCW Saturday Night as a kid when Sid was the champion. At the start of the show they said he was going to defend the title on the show. I watched that whole damn show and was so excited to see the champion actually wrestle on the show. He wrestled a luchador and just hit him with the power bomb and immediately won.


As a kid I loved it for all the cruiserweights/luchadores. Nowadays there are about half of the other talent on those shows I appreciate. Like Scott Norton. Always bring him up b/c that's a dude where my perception of him as a kid was WAYYYYYYYYY off. He's fecking amazing.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I think I liked Billy Kidman when he wrestled on those shows but that's about it. I just knew it was WCW wrestling so I watched it and I loved it. I have almost no specific memories of those shows really but I know I watched them all the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Apparently youtube has a decent influx of some lower grade WCW shows up atm. How phenomenal. Clicked this one and it has serious potential w/a Guardian Angel squash, Vader squash, AND a main event of Eaton vs Duggan. Ecstatic right now.


----------



## PG Era Sucks (Mar 8, 2011)

So I decided to go back in time. I was 18 and for some reason still watching WWF every single week even though they clearly weren't the better product. 

I found this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RX79OhrgcE 

One of if not the lowest rated RAW shows in history. March 3, 1997 in Germany. Supposed to be a house show but they tried to pass it off as Raw. 

Matches that didn't make sense with no buildup, crappy lighting and quality due to the darkness of the German arena. The following week WWF re-branded the show by changing the name to Raw is War, retired the classic ring ropes for all-Red ones and added black turnbuckles pads with a new stage. 

One thing is that at least this awful show had wrestlers who were worth a shit, unlike the WWECW December to Dismember PPV (if you want to call it that) in 2006. I paid for that garbage. The main reason I watched that horrific ECW brand was because I was so high on CM Punk when he started out.

Nearing 40 years old and I'm still loyal to this company that clearly doesn't care about the fans who have been there forever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Something like that for me, w/out much thought to be honest though .
> 
> Just wondering where Mark Henry, BROCK Lesnar, John Cena, CM Punk, & Big Show would fall under your own personal lists for all time work?


My list wasn't in order, fwiw. Just a mess. 

All of those are easy top 100 US guys. Actually Brock might possssibly not be because of his lack of longevity. Warning, if someone tells me to make a list of 100 US maybe better than Brock I will take three years to write it up. I can forgive lack of longevity depending on how good you are (Volk Han at 50 matches yet being literally as good as anybody at their peak is an example...I truly think if he had more matches he'd be a honest GOATC, no hyperbole; #1), but there are a lot of good US wrestlers. Cena is by far the best of the best bunch you mentioned, to the point where I don't even think it's close. I think he's the only guy there that I think would 100% make my US top 50, and 'top 50' actually kinda sounds too low for him by this point in time. I think he's a contender for top 100 worldwide, but honestly you won't see him on mine. The rest are probably somewhere between 50-75 (actually if I had to guess right now I'd probably have Henry, Punk, and Show all within three spots of each other, maybe even side by side), though I could be overestimating and they could sneak into the top 50. I'm not ordering them around to find out.  None of them are top 100 worldwide for me. Wouldn't even consider them. Maybe not even top 200 (Cena would be somewhere before 150 I'd imagine). Though, truth be told, I don't think any of them are _really_ out of place in a top 100 and could honestly see a case for any of them. 



HayleySabin said:


> Is that match online? Please tell me yes.
> 
> Eaton's only "real" singles run from the early 90's was good. Look back on it fondly b/c it was the only time he really got the chance to shine in that department. Worth it that it was only cut to join the Dangerous Alliance. Company still found worth in him so they grouped him in what is always going to be the greatest faction ever _(yeah, even over Horsemen for this comparison)_ & that pleases me. He continued to roll w/great matches; all I care about.


Eaton/Malenko isn't online. I do in fact have it on disc though and will get it up within the next two days. 

Horsemen v. DA is interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's thought provoking when you take the time to run down & analyze. A crapton from the Horsemen as a unit I worship too... so shit. It's bold to proclaim either way.

I meant the Eaton tag vs La Parka, btw. But I won't object to checking out Eaton vs Malenko.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh yeah I watched Eaton/Park tag on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPHsK3Zseys


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"Bobby, I know your career is winding down here"_

Damn you WCW for making something like that said on TV. He still had plenty to offer.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993, have you still neglected Summerslam 2013 in favor of trash from 2010?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was watching it live and the power went out literally as the bell rang for Punk/Lesnar. I haven't actually watched a wrestling match in over a week. Should watch some 80s tonight but I said I was going to force myself to try Demon's Souls again. It's like I'm scared of it or something. I'm sure I can fit a match or two in.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yeah1993, have you still neglected Summerslam 2013 in favor of trash from 2010?


There was trash from 2010?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you forget what the main events of HIAC, Bragging Rights, & Survivor Series were? 

Plus, those Kofi Kingston matches from Superstars. Repulsive.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Did you forget what the main events of HIAC, Bragging Rights, & Survivor Series were?
> 
> Plus, those Kofi Kingston matches from Superstars. Repulsive.


Hey go to sleep Mr. headache :lol

But yeah those main events are truly awful.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So while I was on sabbatical BATISTA returned AND they made LESNAR/SHOW?

Time to start back watching.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You'd be wise to stay away.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Speaking of 2010, where is Evan Bourne? :side:

I might watch a ton of Rumble matches this weekend since I'll be flooded with homework and tests this week. :vince7


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> So while I was on sabbatical BATISTA returned AND they made LESNAR/SHOW?
> 
> Time to start back watching.


You are not missing a whole lot, the booking is unbelievably lazy.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I won't watch full episodes of Raw or Smackdown. I never do that but I'm back on the lookout for stuff that may peak my interest. Lesnar v Show falls into that category for sure.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just saying don't get too excited haha, but enjoy what you can.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I find it hard to not be at least a little excited at this time of the year. Regardless of the quality of the product the Rumble through to Backlash (oops I mean Extreme Rules) is a period I look forward to.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I care about half of the Royal Rumble right now, Brock/Show and the Rumble match.

WWE Title and possibly the IC title match can fuck off though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch the main event of RAW. How can the brothers forget about that?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble time never made me care. Such a filler event. Feb show is exactly the same too. Yawn. All WM has these last few years is basically what Undertaker or CM Punk do, so that's about all I'll care for again this time around. Gave up on Danielson being worth anything until I see otherwise.

I didn't. It was never a point to even be brought up though. WWE sucks.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch the main event of RAW. How can the brothers forget about that?


You mean from RAW Old School?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Reigns? I'll watch that.

Watching Lesnar's return now. Gotta see this beating he puts on Mark Henry.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Did you forget what the main events of HIAC, Bragging Rights, & Survivor Series were?
> 
> Plus, those Kofi Kingston matches from Superstars. Repulsive.


Good lord Barrett/Orton series. And some disappointing Kane/Taker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brock is too fucking cool. Those primal screams after he killed Henry got me even more stoked for what's in store from him and Show at the Rumble. I can't see them producing something I won't like.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Though he should've only killed Henry at the Rumble. I feel Show, no matter how good the match ends up being, is a waste of a Bork appearance, especifically due to the millions of matches they've had already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Punk/Reigns? I'll watch that.


It's good. Ignore the dumb dead crowd for the majority, btw. Bunch of numpties. I know that show was awful, but react to something that's good, people. Yikes.



Brye said:


> Good lord Barrett/Orton series. And some disappointing Kane/Taker.


After all that, we thought the HIAC would be "it" w/those two. How wrong we all were. The Buried Alive was good & the No Holds Barred was great, so at least there is a positive to the program.



ATF said:


> Though he should've only killed Henry at the Rumble. I feel Show, no matter how good the match ends up being, is a waste of a Bork appearance, especifically due to the millions of matches they've had already.


Henry = injured, remember? It had to be nixed.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lesnar/Henry would've ruled the universe but I'll happily settle for Lesnar/Show. 

Who does everybody want Batista to wrestle at Mania? Brock all the way.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I kinda want Batista/Sheamus. Think that could be a nice brawl. Probably have to make one heel for it but it could work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I want Batista to go away.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Why?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't care for him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Do you want the vast majority of the roster to go away as well?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's only about twelve last time I checked. It would be phenomenal. But that's funny like I'm supposed to care about Batista b/c he's been gone for a few years or some shit. Never bought into the guy. Another WWE machine pick that did next to nothing for me on the majority. His heel stuff in 2010 was fun, but that moment is done w/and his wrestling was never anything special either unless the right opponent got it out of him. So yeah, he can stay the fuck away. But WWE is so reliant on part-time guys to make the company go 'round, I'm not surprised by this scramble.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I know the question wasn't directed to me, but sure, why not. A good portion of the roster are just sitting in the back anyway.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I'm with Cody. We don't need a hack like Batista to come back for no reason and hog up another main spot, they should be focusing on building a guy like Bryan.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

dat theme tho :mark: :mark:


----------



## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

*My two favorite wrestling shows EVER.*


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista isn't one of my favorites but he definitely does add some more star power to the event and if anything it evens up the numbers in my book regarding the main eventers. 

If they end up giving us BROCK/BATISTA and CENA/TAKER, I mean that's fucking sold the show in my book, then you still have HHH/Punk and the undercard with guys like The Shield, Wyatts, Cody/Goldust and even Orton. 

It's easy to want WWE to push the younger guys when your watching at home but its a different matter when your shelling out thousands to see the event in person, you want the big name attractions and all the hoopla. 

This special attraction business might be coming to an end anyway now with the network, PPV buyrates are a thing of the past heading into Mania 31.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I may be in the minority here, but i want all the big names at Mania, regardless of storyline or not. Part-time or not, doesn't matter to me, its Wrestle-fucking-mania, i want it to be the biggest it can possibly be.

Of course have all the current 'stars' in there too lol, but i want Batista/Taker/Brock and whomever else they can get, Goldberg.

Just IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm fucking stoked for Batista's return. They better give him the Rumble win with all this hype. Bryan can win it next year. Other than him, there's not a single non-repeat full-timer who deserves it or is ready for a win that big.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm all for big star power returning for WM... but bring back someone who can go in the ring or something. Batista doesn't fit that role.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All I want from Mania is for Bryan to get what he deserves, but alas, we will probably get a flop instead.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clint Eastwood said:


> I may be in the minority here, but i want all the big names at Mania, regardless of storyline or not. Part-time or not, doesn't matter to me, its Wrestle-fucking-mania, i want it to be the biggest it can possibly be.
> 
> Of course have all the current 'stars' in there too lol, but i want Batista/Taker/Brock and whomever else they can get, Goldberg.
> 
> Just IMO.


I'm completely the same. And I'm also going to Mania and have paid a considerable amount of money to attend. I'd much rather have Batista and the part timers there than watch a 20 minute midcard match with 3MB that I don't give a shit about just because it gets Drew McIntyre on the card. Fuck that. If a match is good then it's good no matter where it happens, opener, middle, close. So what if Batista takes up a main event spot? If the current guys were big enough stars they wouldn't be so easily pushed aside. I don't really give a damn who is there so long as I walk back to my hotel in New Orleans a happy fan. 

I do draw the line at Goldberg however. I can definitely do without him.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree, the more starpower, the more emphasis on spectacle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Batista can be carried to good-great matches by the right opponent, so I don't mind him returning at all. Plus, you can't say you wouldn't be excited for a Brock-Batista match, especially if they went all out and made it a hell in a cell match or something. With Batista back, they could do a dream WM card of Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Batista, Shield/Wyatt's, and Punk/Danielson for the WWE title, with Orton and Trips fucking off from the main event scene. It's win-win, atleast for me. Chances of this happening are about less than zero, but a man can dream I suppose.

Point being, Batista adds a little star power and big match feel to any event he's involved in, I think it would be a mistake to prejudge him before we've even seen 1 freaking match. It's been 3+ years since he stepped into the ring, Lesnar has been better than ever since his return, maybe all the MMA training Dave has done has allowed him to add to his move set and gotten better ring wise.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> With Batista back, they could do a dream WM card of Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Batista, Shield/Wyatt's, and Punk/Danielson for the WWE title, with Orton and Trips fucking off from the main event scene.


I think I just threw up.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brye said:


> I kinda want Batista/Sheamus. Think that could be a nice brawl. Probably have to make one heel for it but it could work.


I could see them going this route and if Sheamus is in the Rumble it would be really easy to set up. Both guys basically play this badass character. Just have them in the ring together at the same time and have their encounter quickly escalate into a wild brawl. I don't think they even need to do the "He eliminated me so I got back in the ring and eliminated him" gimmick of starting the feud. 



WWF Royal Rumble 1992

*The Orient Express w/Mr. Fuji vs. The New Foundation *

Owen Hart and Jim Neighart make the New Foundation if you weren't sure. They also have the world's worst (or best depending on your perspective) ring gear. The match itself was good but clocking in at well over 15 minutes I was hoping for a little better. The start of the match was pretty well done because the Foundation came out on top but they didn't do it in a dominating fashion. Eventually the Orient Express work a control segment on Owen. Fuji got involved in the match and there were a couple nice looking spots with his cane. The hot tag was built up really well and it was pretty cool when they made the tag but I wish they had done more after the tag was made. Maybe take a few minutes off the control segment and let them work at a quick pace a little longer. While I did have that problem with the match the match still does deserve some credit for making me think that there was a good chance that the match would end before Owen was actually able to make the tag. 
****1/4*


_Intercontinental Championship Match_:
*The Mountie(c) w/Jimmy Hart vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Pipper*

This was OK but nothing special at all. The whole point of the match was to set up the Piper/Bret match at Mania. It was a fun brawl but The Mountie was totally outmatched. I really don't have much to say about this because it was your standard affair. Crowd seemed to really like Piper getting the win. 
**3/4*


*The Beverly Brothers w/The Genius vs. The Bushwhackers w/Jameson* 

The reactions that the Bushwhackers get when they do absolutely nothing in the ring is mind boggling. Seriusly, all they do is walk around the ring screaming. When they actually do stuff it's terrible. One of them doesn't even appear to be able to take a bump properly. The Beverly Brothers appear to be the most generic heel team that has ever wrestled. I won't say they were horrible but they did absolutely nothing to stand out in the slightest. If you don't know who Jameson is you should consider yourself lucky. He appears to be a very annoying, slightly retarded person that came to the ring with the Bushwhackers. The only redeeming part of the match was that some of the fans were at least aware they were seeing a shit match as there were some audible "boring" chants during the match.
*1/4** 


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Legion of Doom(c) vs. The Natural Disasters*

I really liked that Hawk and Animal didn't back down because it made it feel like you were watching two teams of badasses collide. When they were even this was pretty fun and the control segment was decent. I'm not a fan of count outs but it sort of worked here because you left wanting to see these guys fight some more. It wasn't bad but I would also struggle to call it good. The Disasters seemed to be passable big man and I think they could have decent matches with the right team. 
****



*Royal Rumble Match for the WWF Championship*

Obviously Flair was incredible. He wasn't going to get many chances to wrestle for 60 minutes like he did here and Flair made the most of it. And he didn't just survive in the Rumble for a really long time like someone like Rick Martel did in the previous year. Flair was always a main focus of the match (Heenan on commentary really helped with that). Flair was also incredible the whole time. There were some great moments with him and just other random guys. Him giving the Barbarian a high five and then chopping him right away was hilarious and really showed that Flair wasn't going to work with anyone for too long. Flair was just a workhorse in this match and it was a really impressive performance. I honestly think he mixed it up with everyone that was in the match with him. 

This was also a really interesting time period because there was the old guard and a lot of the up and comers in the ring together. It was cool to see Piper and Undertaker mix it up. I was also a huge fan of the Piper and Flair interaction (they have to have some singles matches out there right?). It's always fun to see guys that you didn't think ever really had a match together get involved with each other during a Rumble. 

The match wasn't perfect though. Savage eliminating himself and getting back into the ring was awkward. There were also flat periods of the match where not much was going. I also hate the ending so much. Hogan puts himself above the championship and it's one of the dumbest heel turns ever from Sid. Like the guy does nothing wrong, Hogan costs him the title, then gets a title match over him, and somehow Sid is the heel? Anyway the finish of the match took all of the focus off Flair. The guy just won the WWF Championship after being in the ring for 60 minutes and fighting basically everyone on the roster but Hogan and Sid is more important. 

While there are some negatives as a whole this was fantastic. Easily the best Rumble match up to this point and I'm pretty sure that it's better then just about all of the Rumble matches that come after it. A lot of what I think made this so great was that the match was able to tell a single story for virtually the entire match. Flair was in the ring the whole time and Heenan made sure he was always on everyone's mind. I think having one coherent story to tell in a Rumble match really helps make it a lot more watchable and enjoyable. I'm not quite as high on it some people but that doesn't change the fact that I think this is an amazing Royal Rumble match. 
******​


Overall this was a good show. There was a good undercard match and the Rumble delivered. Considering most of the big names were actually in the Rumble I can't complain too much about the undercard. And the Rumble finally lived up to its potential so that's a huge plus.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Sheamus/Reigns would be the shizzz, which I'm certain is a probability after Mania, possibly at MITB.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm fucking stoked for Batista's return. They better give him the Rumble win with all this hype. Bryan can win it next year. Other than him, there's not a single non-repeat full-timer who deserves it or is ready for a win that big.


unk2 however saying that I'd rather Dave because it works better for what we'd end up at Mania with. 



King Cal said:


> I'm all for big star power returning for WM... but bring back someone who can go in the ring or something. Batista doesn't fit that role.


Love to hear who you think has the star power capable of being brought back and that can 'go' in the ring.



funnyfaces1 said:


> All I want from Mania is for Bryan to get what he deserves, but alas, we will probably get a flop instead.


Yeah if there's one disappointment its WWE had (in my eyes anyway) made a star out of Bryan and are forcefully fighting the grain by making him a plot device for Bray Wyatt, It will be OK but Bryan has done more than Punk and Cena and yet Im sure those two will be in much bigger spots at the big show and im not even the biggest Bryan fan but feel a bit aggrieved with his treatment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmmm... you have a point there. Any really big stars that could come back are either shit in the ring or are too old to go any more. So we're stuck with trash like Batista and he's not even close to being the worst we could get. Bah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Batista>>>>>all those washed up fuckers in TNA 

Except Sting 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting sucks too though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sting is the biggest washed up fucker in WWE or TNA


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> Sting is the biggest washed up fucker in WWE or TNA


As a big Sting mark, im finding it difficult to argue that statement.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well overall, sting>Batista IMO, maybe not ATM Though 

So yeah, he is washed up :lmao


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think I just threw up.



:lmao that Orton remark was specifically for you, if he continues to work like he did vs Bryan on Raw, I have no qualms with him having a big spot on the card. Just thinking though, I'm struggling to find a fresh ME opponent for him outside of Lesnar and Batista. Who would you hav him face at WM30?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YoungGun_UK said:


> unk2


I didn't say "deserve their walking papers". 



Cactus Jack said:


> :lmao that Orton remark was specifically for you, if he continues to work like he did vs Bryan on Raw, I have no qualms with him having a big spot on the card. Just thinking though, I'm struggling to find a fresh ME opponent for him outside of Lesnar and Batista. Who would you hav him face at WM30?


Batista for the title, duh. Just like the reports say! 

They are both from Evolution yet have never had a match at a big stage. When they wanted to feud for the title, they got stuck in the middle of the card with little time and then Batista got injured. It was supposed to happen at WM22 but again, Batista's injury prevented it.

I would definitely not want Orton to yet again face Bryan, Cena or Punk. Even I give up on that part regardless of any title involvement. Orton vs Brock at EC then Orton vs Batista at WM is what I'm looking for and hope to get.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> :lmao that Orton remark was specifically for you, if he continues to work like he did vs Bryan on Raw, I have no qualms with him having a big spot on the card. Just thinking though, I'm struggling to find a fresh ME opponent for him outside of Lesnar and Batista. Who would you hav him face at WM30?


He's got two options in my book, if he remains in the big spot as World Champion then vs Batista is what were likely going to get, if he drops down to lower card by dropping the championship a feud with Jericho over the real first Undisputed Champion would be cool. 

If you can't get Jericho just throw him in there with someone who has to be on the card like Del Rio or Big Show :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I didn't say "deserve their walking papers".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's what I was thinking, Orton vs Punk, Bryan, Cena, ADR, Sheamus, Christian, Triple H, etc has all been done and over done. My thing with a Brock match is, how would it work with the heel vs heel dynamic? Brock just has to be dominant, especially if he's facing Taker, and if he's dominant over a heel Orton couldn't it really kill his heat?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why are people actually anticipating Orton/Batista? Sure, it's a fresher option, but I don't buy it that much as a WM ME tbh.

Btw, when people refer TNA wrestlers as "dem washed up fuckers", do they remember TNA also has names like Roode, Storm, Daniels, Kazarian, Sabin, Aries, Manik, Styles, Joe... yeah.  Just a reminder that not ALL of TNA is pure fuckery.

Anyways, I totally agreed w/Starbuck's line of I prefer watching at a WrestleMania a match of a big star - in this case a Batista match - than a 3MB 20 minute match just because of Drew McIntyre. Hell, I'd even take a Rock match before that. It's WRESTLEFUCKINGMANIA. No matter what, they should go balls out with whatever they have.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Maybe we'll get Brock/Show II at EC. :troll.

*Shudders but realises it isn't beyond the realms of WWE*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YoungGun_UK said:


> He's got two options in my book, if he remains in the big spot as World Champion then vs Batista is what were likely going to get, *if he drops down to lower card by dropping the championship a feud with Jericho over the real first Undisputed Champion would be cool.
> 
> If you can't get Jericho just throw him in there with someone who has to be on the card like Del Rio or Big Show* :side:


Unacceptable. He's been in the lower card for four years now. Time to show him the respect instead of bullshit moves like putting him in a stupid "feud" with Kane over a handshake just so they do that idiotic 18 seconds nonsense with Sheamus/Bryan.



Cactus Jack said:


> That's what I was thinking, Orton vs Punk, Bryan, Cena, ADR, Sheamus, Christian, Triple H, etc has all been done and over done. My thing with a Brock match is, how would it work with the heel vs heel dynamic? Brock just has to be dominant, especially if he's facing Taker, and if he's dominant over a heel Orton couldn't it really kill his heat?


Easy. Brock is gonna be the default face in his hometown. Orton can be like a cowardly heel using heelish moves to keep the heat on him. Or they can just go all out heel/heel and let the crowd decide who they root for. Nothing they haven't done in the past.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

At this point I'd give an arm and a leg to see Cena-BROCK again, preferably at the Chamber.

I don't know what all the fuss about being in a main event match is about, as there's probably going to be 4-6 HUGE matches come XXX, but I'm pretty much 99 percent convinced that Cena goes on last no matter what other matches are on the card. Cena/Hogan/Bryan Vs The Wyatts or something would main event over Taker/BROCK, Batista/Orton, & Punk/HHH anyways.

There's going to be a weird situation come XXX as Orton is champion, but I can't see any possible way that he is placed on the card higher than HHH, who always gets top or second top billing besides when he stepped down for XXVI. I honestly can't wait to see how things get shaken up from here, but obviously they're subject to fuck it all up JUST CUZZZ .

ANYWHOWAYS. Time to watch another WAR GAMES MATCH .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Easy. Brock is gonna be the default face in his hometown. Orton can be like a cowardly heel using heelish moves to keep the heat on him. Or they can just go all out heel/heel and let the crowd decide who they root for. Nothing they haven't done in the past.


That's true. If the match is in Minnesota, Brock can still be bad ass heel Brock and be cheered as the baby face. Shit I was cheering for him at Summerslam even though Punk was giving the best baby face performance of his career. It's just too easy to get giddy watch Brock strut around the ring bellowing "BEST. IN. THE. WORLD." And giving that wonderful arrogant smirk he has while decimating someone.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I always cheer Brock in his matches, SPECIALLY SummerSlam. It will be conflicting for me if he faces Orton but I will likely side with Randal because Brock's stock will not drop even if he losses and he'll be the same badass even with a defeat whereas Orton has a lot to gain from a win there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mr Undertaker is the only guy who could go against Lesnar and I wouldn't cheer for BROCK. Guy is like, unbooable. Cannot be booed.

After I finish editing episode 100 tonight and get it online, I'll finally have chance to take a break and watch the rest of the 2003 PPV's for my ramblings . Haven't watched any wrestling outside of some current weekly stuff except for 2 Punk 08 matches since... I dunno, November lol.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I remember that one crowd that was pretty down on Taker in 2011 during the Hunter program. What chants and slight boos from some folks. Never thought I'd see Taker get What chants these days.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I care about half of the Royal Rumble right now, Brock/Show and the Rumble match.
> 
> WWE Title and possibly the IC title match can fuck off though.


Yeah, I don't give a single solitary fuck about the WWE Title match, myself. I haven't since Bryan was taken out. 

Rumble match should be interesting. Mostly for the returns, and the fact that the match itself is usually somewhat fun. Hoping for a Punk or Bryan victory. Brock's match will be somewhat interesting to me, though I don't expect the match to be too impressive, and the result is very predictable, IMO. I may be interested in the Tag Title match(if there is one), since I would like Cody and Goldust to lose the titles a the Rumble to start their rumored feud, culminating in the obvious match at 'Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it was in 2012 and it was a Minneapolis crowd, lol. Have to be honest, though. That promo was kinda boring and Taker even botched a number. Didn't care for the program at all because really, Taker vs HHH III? Why?



King Cal said:


> Mr Undertaker is the only guy who could go against Lesnar and I wouldn't cheer for BROCK. Guy is like, unbooable. Cannot be booed.


Yep, I would also have to support Under if BROCK challenges for the streak. I just can't cheer anyone else on that stage because BIG MARK should retire with his undefeated streak. Fuck that "putting over young guy" nonsense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker simple can't lose at WM because whoever beats him is fucked. WWE absolutely 100% would NOT be able to follow up on it. Doesn't matter who would beat Undertaker at WM, they would be booked like shit afterwards and in the end beating the streak would have been meaningless. Besides, simple BEING IN THE RING with Undertaker makes a guy look better than if they beat someone like Cena. Though of course some people (a lot of them outside of this thread lol), seem to think "putting over" means "letting them pin you".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also, just realised my other post ended up looking like it meant something else . I meant that for me BROCK is unbooable, with the exception of facing Undertaker. Because other than Undertaker there is nobody on this planet that could face Brock and make me wanna boo him.

Undertaker is DUH unbooable for me. There ISN'T anyone with the exception of no-one that could make me boo that guy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Cal, welcome to DARE OF YOUR LIFE! The ultimate game-show, and you were invited because I said so!
*If you boo the Undertaker in a Handicap match against the Miz and Wade Barrett from your heart, you will: become a trillionaire, date Jennifer Lawrence, Stephanie McMahon and Lita at the same time, win all the HD TV's in the world, end world hunger, end cancer, go to Mars and conquer the Sun!*
NOW DO IT 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Make some of those prices more appealing and I'll do it .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Stephanie is enough reason for me to agree to that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Have people forgotten that Batista was actually good in the ring before he left? I don't know if he can get back to that level but he wasn't a guy who needed to be carried.

Batista/Orton sounds like the best possible match for Orton imo. They can't do Orton/Cena or Orton/Bryan again and I wouldn't want them to waste Lesnar or Punk on him. The reason I'd prefer Batista/Lesnar is it would free up Taker for Cena and rid us of the unwanted possibility of HHH/Cena. Plus I don't give a fuck what Orton does. I'm fine with Brock/Taker, more than fine with it in truth, but Cena/Taker is way more appealing to me.

What's the latest on Michaels possibly coming out of retirement to face Bryan?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm honestly struggling to remember any good Batista matches for the last year or so of his career. Might need reminding of some stuff he did though, but the Cena series before he left was shite.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Cal said:


> I'm honestly struggling to remember any good Batista matches for the last year or so of his career. Might need reminding of some stuff he did though, but the Cena series before he left was shite.


No it wasn't. The last man standing is probably better than any of his matches with Taker.

Stretcher match v HBK is boss if memory serves me well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I didn't think anything to the LMS. Doesn't come close to even touching the weakest Undertaker match from 07.

Stretcher match with HBK was good though. Forgot that one. What did he do in 09? I'm drawing a blank on everything bar Mysterio and THAT Undertaker match. Don't remember how the Mysterio match/matches went though. Shouldn't be bad on paper.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista in 09 worked a couple of PPVs with Orton but they were underwhelming because they only got 10 minutes. Don't remember much else because he was injured a lot of the time.

Have to watch the HBK matches because I haven't yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Explains why I remember little of his 09 then . Injured + working with Orton = no Batista seen by me .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't remember much from his '09, I just know I thought he was pretty damn good before he left. Especially as a heel.

I do seem to recall a good JeriShow v ReyTista match but I don't really know.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He didn't wrestle much in 2010, like AT ALL.

Last Man Standing with Cena is fantastic, Wrestlemania bout gets severely underrated by everybody, matches versus Rey were goodies as well.

Gonna check out some BIG DAVE to see how it holds up. Better than watching RAW probably .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never seen the Batista/HBK Stretcher match either  Think ill watch it now having just finished watching Mysterio/Psicosis (2/3 Falls- ECW 1995)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I enjoyed Big Dave 08-10 run, I thought he was solid in-ring

what is the best batista/taker outside of their mania ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cyber Sunday, the best one out of the entire series including Mania .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having looked at the entire One Night Stand 2008 card, it looks pretty good IMO. What is Hardy/Umaga like? Think I'll watch the Taker/Edge TLC match for the first time too


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Plus, you can't say you wouldn't be excited for a Brock-Batista match, especially if they went all out and made it a hell in a cell match or something.


Yeah I can.  They wasted three Lesnar dates on Helmsley already, no need to waste any more.



King Cal said:


> I'm honestly struggling to remember any good Batista matches for the last year or so of his career. Might need reminding of some stuff he did though, but the Cena series before he left was shite.


I don't agree with this at all and thought the Cena LMS was really great, but that's like the only period of Batista's career I care about and it went two months. Honestly I'm shocked everybody is getting so excited about the return of someone who is barely even thought of in a positive way. Especially since he's likely taking up a main spot which could have been Danielson. I really don't care how 'big' WrestleMania feels. I'm not going to nuts watching a shitty match. I get it should be memorable, but it feels like it's false memorable, it's so forced. You know, 'forced epic'. Something that doesn't become naturally epic because of all the situations around it (eg Cena/Punk MITB), but something they artificially manufacture in their laboratory and tell you is 'epic' (eg Cena/Rock).


I am literally at the point of dreading* WrestleMania every year. It's a time where they are absolutely piss-scared to do anything that won't get them a buy, and then they bring back a bunch of un-entertaining part timers who rarely put on something worth watching. They make it look like the past is so much better than the present, and that isn't something they shouldn't be doing no matter how true or untrue it is. Feels like the part timers and returners like shitty Batista come in and go 'ok you've had your mediocre twelve months, this is how it's really done', and disappear for a year. I think Taker is the only who will actually do something really positive for someone's career, yet he's spent most of his Manias wrestling someone who doesn't need a rub just because they want to have a played out 'MOTYC'.

I'm probably in the massively small minority here, but I could give a fuck all about star power if they put on a show I actually like.



Saint Dick said:


> Stretcher match v HBK is boss if memory serves me well.


I honestly hate that match. I was actually looking forward to it and it was a big eye-roller. I remember the spot where Michaels superkicks Batista and Dave falls lazily onto the stretcher which this look on his face that was almost a smile. Also has Hammy Michaels Acting.

*(IDK about dreading, but I ain't excited for it)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Having looked at the entire One Night Stand 2008 card, it looks pretty good IMO. What is Hardy/Umaga like? Think I'll watch the Taker/Edge TLC match for the first time too


Avoid both matches tbh .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jeff/Umaga was a crazy ass spotfest in a few words  It did feature some cool spots and it was entertaining, it's worth watching.

Though the real goodies from that show are the Stretcher, I Quit and Singapore Cane matches. Those three ruled. Also, I'm a personal fan of the TLC match.

Btw, Batista's most famous 09 match out here tends to be the Backlash 6-Man Tag w/HHH and Shane vs Legacy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Picking up on Yeah's post regarding Lesnar, IMO they are kinda wasting a Brock PPB date with Big Show, but as its the RTWM, i guess that is the reason. I wouldn't mind as much as long as we get Brock at Summerslam, even though he is appearing at ER.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah I can.  They wasted three Lesnar dates on Helmsley already, no need to waste any more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree with this so fucking much, I'm a huge Brock and Taker mark, but besides that, fuck all these part timers TBH. At least BORK and Taker can still put on GREAT matches so they deserve to be at mania. But HHH? Rock? Batista? their just taking someone like Bryan or Zigglers spot and making the event less enjoyable. I'm all for part timers who can fucking work coming back for the big event, but this is too much. I mean, last year the event was literally completely structured around part timers. Out of the triple ME, every single match had a part timer in it, and guess what? The event fucking bombed. When has their ever been such a reliance on old talents? I want to see like Punk/Cena or Punk/Bryan as the ME of mania, not fucking Batista vs Orton or HHH vs someone he wants to bury. 

I'm looking forward to mania but I feel like their just gonna fuck up what should be a special event


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Agree with this so fucking much, I'm a huge Brock and Taker mark, but besides that, fuck all these part timers TBH. At least BORK and Taker can still put on GREAT matches so they deserve to be at mania. But HHH? Rock? Batista? their just taking someone like Bryan or *Zigglers spot and making the event less enjoyable.*


Ziggler's spot :lol.

On the matter though, I believe that part timers should be used in the right situations, that is limiting the amount of shitty matches they have throughout the card. So HHH-Punk & Taker-BROCK PLZ.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> I want to see like Punk/Cena or Punk/Bryan as the ME of mania, not fucking Batista vs Orton or HHH vs someone he wants to bury.


Good thing you don't book the shows. 

I admit Bryan deserves a better spot on the show but everyone else is irrelevant. Specially Ziggler, who's spot is not taken by a part-timer but taken up by himself where he belongs - on the bottom!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Going off topic for a second, I tried and failed last year to make a comprehensive list of the year's best matches but I'm giving it another shot for 2014. I know I won't have the time or interest to watch everything that's 'just good' so I'm setting the cut off point for my list at very good to great (I guess like ***1/2-***3/4 for the star users) or anything I really fucking liked for whatever reason. First match up for consideration:

CM Punk v Roman Reigns - Raw (1/6/14)
Yeah I liked this for sure. Probably more than most judging from what I've read on here. The crowd was dead as fuck for the most part but that didn't phase me. Dug the headlock stuff to start. Punk's off the apron into and over the ring post bump isn't something I've seen very often so that was a neat way to start Reigns' control segment. Thought Reigns could've been better in control but he wasn't bad. Cutting off Punk's running knee attempt with a bear hug was nice and I really liked how he sold the first kick to the head. Kind of just dropped to the ground and sat there because he's Roman fucking Reigns and that shit only dazed him. Punk was really good selling the ribs throughout and as a result his comeback felt meaningful and full of effort. The finishing stretch was great. Even the shitty ass crowd came alive for it which to me was a testament to how they built the match and timed its climax well. Watching a match not knowing the result is so much better. They got me with a couple of those nearfalls; if I knew who was winning I would've probably thought they were just pretty good rather than very good. All in all a very good match. Not quite good enough to make the list (***1/4 range I'd say) but I definitely don't regret watching it. NOT ADDING



Spoiler: list



1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Great list!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

On the part timer stuff though, I dont care if anyone is a part timer or not. All that matters is how they are placed. You can have a show with part timers from Brock to Taker to yes Rock and HHH. No need to be picky and choosey over part timers. They are still part timers at the end of the day. Some are better than others but Its mostly all about how their used. There isn't any rule book or some sort of thing where such and such deserves or doesn't deserve to be there. Its the biggest show, some of these guys are all time greats. Fuck what you think. As long as they are placed on the card well, WWE should and will utilize those guys. The problem lies within how they book and lay their show out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena has main evented the last three manias. I don't see that changing this year, no matter what the title match is.

No matter if it's Cena-HHH, Cena/Hogan nonsense, or whatever. It's going on last.

There's no room for Ziggler anymore, as there's 20 or so guys ahead of him on the food chain it seems. THE CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP OHHH YEAAAAH .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Great list!


:cool2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

those are soome gems there on the list

obviously ziggler isnt doing anything at mania, why should he ? I highly doubt there is 20 more interesting ppl atm, maybe like 4-5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ziggler ain't going nowhere until he stops getting concussions .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wonder which mid-carder Jericho will wrestle at Mania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I said in the other thread, dont rush him back let him take a couple months

I dont get involved in these daily mania predictions but how many part-timer are rumored ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jericho to job out to fucking Big E

CALLING IT


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fuck Chris Jericho. I think I'd rather have Batista.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> John Cena has main evented the last three manias. I don't see that changing this year, no matter what the title match is.
> 
> No matter if it's Cena-HHH, Cena/Hogan nonsense, or whatever. It's going on last.
> 
> There's no room for Ziggler anymore, as there's 20 or so guys ahead of him on the food chain it seems. THE CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP OHHH YEAAAAH .


I wouldn't be so sure. The last three Manias closed with Cena because there was ROCK that gave it top priority. No way in hell would Cena vs Wyatt close the show. Plus they are no longer as obsessed with having Cena close shows as they used to be. Since WM, he's only main evented three out of however many PPVs (away for two of them). MITB main evented over Cena/Henry, Orton/Bryan main evented over his RETURN (surprised me), even Orton/Show main evented over Cena/Del Rio rematch which was in Cena's hometown and there weren't enough shenanigans to really "justify" it.

And Ziggler definitely ain't going anywhere. He's DONE. Other than Bryan, only Sheamus deserves top billing from the full-time non-Orton/Cena/Punk guys.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I doubt Cena main events unless he has the title on him, really hope anyone but Tista wins the rumble, big FU to the rest of the roster


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey guys, how come nobody is mentioning which big match ALBERTO DEL RIO is gonna be in at WM? 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I forgot he even existed 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone else think that MITB returns to WM? Pretty sure the MITB PPV will get scrapped in favor of it returning to mania, where it belongs IMO


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Hey guys, how come nobody is mentioning which big match ALBERTO DEL RIO is gonna be in at WM? 8*D




Ding ding ding, you just pointed out the number 1 reason I don't mind Batista taking a main event spot for a little while, it'll keep ADR's over pushed mid card ass out of the main event and back in the mid card having the slightly above average matches he's known for (Christian and Ziggler matches of course excepting)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Anyone else think that MITB returns to WM? Pretty sure the MITB PPV will get scrapped in favor of it returning to mania, where it belongs IMO


The Money in The Bank PPV is already confirmed for this year, so this won't happen. I always preferred MITB when it was at WrestleMania though, made for a fun and exciting opener.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

thats a bummer, wish their was another way to get all the midcard guys on the card


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Money In The Bank has essentially replaced Survivor Series as the fourth biggest PPV. It should stay as its own PPV without question.

If the cream always rises to the top, then why has Regal never been a main eventer?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Because Regal liked to get drunk and high .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Drunk Regal sounds :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Del Rio? Isn't that the new taco place down the street? :aries2

Kind of a bummer Regal didn't have an awesome heel title reign. unk3

With so many good moments at MitB I'm cool with that staying as it's own PPV. But Not so sure about Hell in a Cell. 

They should just combine Extreme Rules and TLC. It's essentially the same thing. Have it the PPV after Mania and keep the PPV in December and call it Starrcade. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ziggler ain't going anywhere so long as he looks the way he does in SKINS sig. Legit thought that was a woman there when I scrolled down the screen, complete with divas title and all.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> thats a bummer, wish their was another way to get all the midcard guys on the card


That's a good point I forgot, MITB at Mania allowed midcard talent to get some exposure at the biggest PPV of the year. With how stacked this years Mania is going to be, I can't see many midcard guys making the card. Best chance for the midcard guys would be if they did some big team match for the Tag Titles with multiple teams. But guys like Ziggler and Sandow will be on the pre-show almost guaranteed sadly, I just can't see any place for them on the Mania card this year. :sad:



funnyfaces1 said:


> Money In The Bank has essentially replaced Survivor Series as the fourth biggest PPV. It should stay as its own PPV without question.


Yeah, MITB has become a big deal PPV in recent years that's also become one of the most consistent of the year so WWE want to keep a PPV because they know it will get buys.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did someone say buys? :vince$


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE NETWORK > buys

:vince2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

As long as the real Americans make the card I'll be fine


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I see lots getting the shaft this WM by not being on the card. Notable ones being: 

Ziggler 
Sandow 
Henry 
Barrett 
Ryback 
Usos 

As of now I don't see any making the WM card


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Ziggler ain't going anywhere so long as he looks the way he does in SKINS sig. Legit thought that was a woman there when I scrolled down the screen, complete with divas title and all.


Had to go back to see if you were talking about the gif but then I saw that pic and couldn't help but :lmao

Wish he had kept the pink hair from the Orton match so I could laugh at him some more while JBL ridicules him non-stop. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> I could see them going this route and if Sheamus is in the Rumble it would be really easy to set up. Both guys basically play this badass character. Just have them in the ring together at the same time and have their encounter quickly escalate into a wild brawl. I don't think they even need to do the "He eliminated me so I got back in the ring and eliminated him" gimmick of starting the feud.


That "he eliminated me, I eliminated him" storyline is so old now. We've seen it happen so many damn times. I like your idea, they're both brutes and just having Batista maybe issue a challenge in which Sheamus returns and accepts.

Hell, throw the belt on Sheamus at EC and have Batista challenge him for it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I see lots getting the shaft this WM by not being on the card. Notable ones being:
> 
> Ziggler
> Sandow
> ...


Apart from Henry, that's absolutely no loss whatsoever .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

IMO Batistas WM opponent will either be Orton (unfortunately) or Brock. I honestly can't see him facing anyone else. I like Sheamus, but I don't think he'll be in the top 3 or 4matches for WM this year. As Batista will be. 

I stated in another thread that Sheamus Vs Jericho could be a big possibility. Would be a very solid midcard match for WM.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Ziggler ain't going anywhere so long as he looks the way he does in SKINS sig. Legit thought that was a woman there when I scrolled down the screen, complete with divas title and all.


Your just jealous he is the BITW :lmao


Ehh I want mitb to still be a ppv so I'm not sure if I'd want it back at mania


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brye said:


> That "he eliminated me, I eliminated him" storyline is so old now. We've seen it happen so many damn times. I like your idea, they're both brutes and just having Batista maybe issue a challenge in which Sheamus returns and accepts.
> 
> Hell, throw the belt on Sheamus at EC and have Batista challenge him for it.


It's an easy way of making matches for Mania or EC/No Way Out but yeah it's not very original at all. 

They should go the Hogan route if they decide to do that generic storyline. What I mean is have the babyface get eliminated fairly and then have him screw over the heel by eliminating him when he's out of the match. But of course the face someone isn't acting like a heel and the heel is still the heel. 

I'm up to the 1993 Royal Rumble now. Looking forward to Hart/Razor and the Rumble match as well because I remember nothing about it. After that I think I'll do Summerslam 93 and alternate between Summerslams and Rumbles for a while. 

Unfortunatley I'm back in school so I have much less time to watch wrestling or do anything that isn't me reading my case books.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> As long as the real Americans make the card I'll be fine


Not sure what WWE are doing with The Real Americans. They've been teaming a while and haven't really gone anywhere, they probably should've won the Tag Belts at this point. I think soon they're going to have Cesaro break away from them and turn him face so he can get over with his great in-ring work. 



Choke2Death said:


> Had to go back to see if you were talking about the gif but then I saw that pic and couldn't help but :lmao
> 
> Wish he had kept the pink hair from the Orton match so I could laugh at him some more while JBL ridicules him non-stop. :lol


The pink hair on Ziggler was legit awful. fpalm JBL constantly ridiculing it on commentary makes me think that was WWE's idea just to bury him. Ziggler's hit rock bottom so this concussion he has currently could actually do some good for him just to be away for a bit, away from awful directionless jobbing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is an interesting non-Mania topic if any want to chime in their thoughts:

What wrestlers have had 5-star caliber (it's opinion, duh, but we are talking justifiable ones not nonsense) matches as both a heel and a face. Obviously said wrestler has to have atleast 2 matches to his resume that get universal praise as some of the greatest matches ever, so the list can't be that many guys. To be honest, I'm kinda drawing a blank. Eddie did it (HH97' and SD 6/23 as a heel; JD04' possibly NWO04' as a face). Flair has the Steamboat/Windham series as a heel, and Starrcade vs Vader as a face so he gets in. Was he a heel in the Funk series? HBK was a heel for HiaC vs Taker, face for Mindgames, and WM25/26 was face vs face so I guess he counts. Bret Hart has Wm10 vs Owen as a face and he TURNED heel vs Austin at Wm13 so I dunno if that counts. Curt Hennig has the 60 minute match with Bockwinkle as a face and KotR 1993 vs Bret as a heel. Austin has SS01' vs Angle as a heel and he TURNED face vs Bret at WM13, again not sure if that counts. Mick Foley has Mindgames vs Michaels as a heel and the Street Fight vs Trips as a face so he gets in. I'm sure I'm missing some important ones from Funk and Lawler.....


So far:

Eddie (for sure)
Flair (for sure)
HBK (for sure)
Foley (for sure)
Bret Hart (maybe)
Mr. Perfect (maybe)
Austin (maybe)
Funk (I'm sure he has but I'm drawing a blank)
Lawler (ditto)

Who else comes to mind for you?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Difficult question to answer really since everyone can have different ideas on a match being justified as ***** .

But to add to your list:

Punk - Face Vs Bryan OTL, Heel Vs Cena MITB (technically lol. Could go with the Raw match from 2013. Or one of the Joe matches in ROH... he was heel then right?).

Bryan - Heel Vs Punk or Nigel, Face Vs Nigel

Nigel - Heel Vs Bryan, Face Vs Bryan .

Undertaker - Face Vs HBK, Heel Vs Angle & Rock from Vengeance (I used to have this at ***** so I can see someone going that high still).

Thought Lesnar for a second too, but pretty much all his top tier matches are as a heel, and I can't think of a babyface match that could be justified as ***** lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't know about exactly 5 stars, but the list would be bigger if it would be 4.5-5 caliber matches. Kurt Angle also deserves a mention. As face he has SummerSlam with Austin and NWO with Taker plus depending on how you feel about it, Rumble with Benoit and if not that, SS and ironman with Brock. Benoit is definitely up there too with Jericho ladder match being his classic 5 star caliber match as a heel and the Mania triple threat as well as a shit-ton of others as a face.

-----------------

Since it was the 8 year anniversary for this, I decided to give it another watch.






If Orton wrestled like this weekly, I don't know how anyone could possibly hate him. Such wonderful mat wrestling here that I've never really seen him do elsewhere. Rate it ★★★★½ now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Apart from Henry, that's absolutely no loss whatsoever .


(Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Here is an interesting non-Mania topic if any want to chime in their thoughts:
> 
> What wrestlers have had 5-star caliber (it's opinion, duh, but we are talking justifiable ones not nonsense) matches as both a heel and a face. Obviously said wrestler has to have atleast 2 matches to his resume that get universal praise as some of the greatest matches ever, so the list can't be that many guys. To be honest, I'm kinda drawing a blank. Eddie did it (HH97' and SD 6/23 as a heel; JD04' possibly NWO04' as a face). Flair has the Steamboat/Windham series as a heel, and Starrcade vs Vader as a face so he gets in. Was he a heel in the Funk series? HBK was a heel for HiaC vs Taker, face for Mindgames, and WM25/26 was face vs face so I guess he counts. Bret Hart has Wm10 vs Owen as a face and he TURNED heel vs Austin at Wm13 so I dunno if that counts. Curt Hennig has the 60 minute match with Bockwinkle as a face and KotR 1993 vs Bret as a heel. Austin has SS01' vs Angle as a heel and he TURNED face vs Bret at WM13, again not sure if that counts. Mick Foley has Mindgames vs Michaels as a heel and the Street Fight vs Trips as a face so he gets in. I'm sure I'm missing some important ones from Funk and Lawler.....
> 
> ...


If you're counting HHH for the Foley match at RR00, then I think he gets in as a face for his WM27 and 28 matches against Taker.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)


I thought you were a Ziggler fan? Or are you off the bandwagon like KOK is and numerous others are on this forum atm just because he isn't being pushed?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Fuck Chris Jericho. I think I'd rather have Batista.


The only way Batista is better than Jericho is in his intimidating physique. Jericho is much better in the ring, on the mic, and is more charismatic than Batista. 

I'd like to see Jericho stop trying to put others over by losing all the time. Build him up, let him have a solid title reign, perhaps a World Title reign, then have him put one young, prospective up and comer over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lolbandwagon.

Yeah, I only like guys who get pushes.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Didn't answer the question. :draper2 If you're a fan why do you agree that it's no loss whatsoever to you apparently as fan if he doesn't have a match at Mania then?


RhodesForWHC said:


> The only way Batista is better than Jericho is in his intimidating physique. Jericho is much better in the ring, on the mic, and is more charismatic than Batista.
> 
> I'd like to see Jericho stop trying to put others over by losing all the time. Build him up, let him have a solid title reign, perhaps a World Title reign, then have him put one young, prospective up and comer over.


What I gathered from FLUX's post is: ''Jericho's had too many meaningless returns now that a Batista return is looking more interesting at this point''.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Your just jealous he is the BITW :lmao


Ziggler had so much momentum this summer, when he cashed in. Even despite his concussion, he was still over when he returned, especially with the whole Ziggler/ADR match at Payback deal. He was the most over guy in Philly at MITB. He should have ultimately beat Del Rio and won the WHC as a face.

Of course, WWE fucked him over. 

I would like to see Ziggler in a match at 'Mania, myself, even though, in what is looking to be a somewhat packed WM, it looks like a midcard match would be just fine for him, ATM. 



Nostalgia said:


> What I gathered from FLUX's post is: ''Jericho's had too many meaningless returns now that a Batista return is looking more interesting at this point''.


Oh, alright. I guess I somewhat agree with this. I only hope Jericho changes his mindset on how to properly put somebody over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What's the loss? A match for him that wasn't going to happen in the first place?

We all know how WM goes each year. It's part-time central. Not like Ziggler was given a standout match for WM in previous years as it is. Really isn't a loss, granted I'd rather see him over some goons that will make the card. I just accept reality.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Difficult question to answer really since everyone can have different ideas on a match being justified as ***** .
> 
> But to add to your list:
> 
> ...



Speaking of Nigel, I recently watched his anniversary show match vs Danielson for the first time, the one where he turns and the story is Bryan isn't gonna hit him in the head? One of the best things I've ever seen. Just unbelievable. I'm completely ignorant when it comes to Indy guys, had never seen a McGuinness match before, so I was just sitting there slack jawed the entire time. How was this guy never in WWE? There aren't many people on the planet, let alone in the WWE, who could have had that match with Danielson. Again, just amazing, strongly, STRONGLY reccomend any who haven't seen it to check it out immediately.

As for Undertaker, I really wanted to list him but I just couldn't come up with the heel match that was a concensus top 30-40 match in wrestling history. I'll have to rewatch Vengeance triple threat, it's been too long.

For Punk, totally forgot he was a heel vs Bryan at OTL. Obviously he has the face match vs Lesnar, but I just can't consider the match he had with Cena as a heel. I know he was in the weeks leading up, but that match was worked as a pure baby face vs baby face contest, atleast in my opinion.

You're right though, I guess there is too much opinion involved for there to be a concensus sure fire list. Too many maybes. Even with all the maybes, I bet there isn't 10-12 guys who can lay claim to the feat. I just enjoy guys who can work at the highest level possible as both face and heel, I think it needs to be accounted for when considering the greatest of the greats.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was your first Nigel McGuinness match? Ohhhhhh shoot. You almost have to go down from there now. _(jokingly, but his performance that night was basically his best)_

He was fabulous.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

There seems to almost always be talent on the roster that is being completely wasted.

Last year, I was very discontent with Cody continuously jobbing to the likes of Sheamus, and being treated like some meaningless jobber. This year it's Ziggler, more so, in terms of the last 5-6 months. Such a shame where he's at, jobbing to Kingston, Sandow, Axel, etc


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All the Nigel Vs Bryan matches need to be seen. Incredible series of matches. Nigel was supposed to come to WWE with Bryan, but the doctor was a cunt and screwed it up for him. So he went to TNA, then Hogan and Bischoff coming in fucked him over because they weren't high on him, then he got Hep B and was out with that, then as he was ready to return they fired him . His documentary is THE greatest wrestling doc I've ever seen too btw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its us against the world brother HERE TO SHOW THE WORLD, nah in all honestly like I said, keep him on the shelf for a while, no need in rushing him back, he (booking was a MAJOR reason) was only hurting himself and had no momentum

I dont want to see him in useless filler matches at mania anymore either, my heart will hurt  no more team johnny and laycool vs snookis. I rather him left off tbh


I dont want to see Y2J either, see how the "put over" of Fandango resulted too, and I couldnt care less


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You only liked Roman Reigns because he got pushed :reigns

Punk wasn't a heel during the Punk/Joe series. Perfect was a face against Bret at KOTR, but a heel in their equally awesome Summerslam match. If we look strictly at the WWE, the only person I would count is Shawn Michaels. I guess we can count Bryan too if you include his ROH work (vs. Morishima Manhattan Mayhem and vs. Nigel ROH United). Even then, I'm still not sure if those are five star matches. Lately I've been contracting my list of five star matches. The most recent ones that got the boot are Undertaker/HBK WM XXVI and Misawa/Kobashi 1/3/03. Flair/Steamboat from Wrestlewar might be next.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE never primed Ziggler up well around WM time so it feels around the norm for the guy to miss out on the card if not in some kind of multi-man match. Guys like Rhodes & Cesaro being nixed off in past years was weird and a tiny bit more of a "blow" in the area of quality/building up new guys b/c of the impact they had either for a long period of time or on the year heading into the specific WM. 

Which only serves w/my annoying & lack of interest in the modern day image of WM. Rhodes had three straight singles matches _(triple threat counts)_ for WM & then for a spell he's cast aside in a match to be made only so they can show it on Total Divas. Then Cesaro who was elevated rapidly in 2012 gets to WM season and begins to be jobbed out non-stop, instead of having a fulfilling showcase match to culiminate the WWE booking at their biggest stage. You question so much of their strategy. Why did Rhodes beat Mysterio clean one year just to fall back into obscurity? Or why any of these workers should try and put their best foot forward when getting cast aside. For the ones that "matter" at least. Almost certain Cesaro will miss another WM despite being the Wrestler of the Year in 2013 for WWE. That's the kind of notion where it falls into a 'loss' for me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> What's the loss? A match for him that wasn't going to happen in the first place?
> 
> We all know how WM goes each year. It's part-time central. Not like Ziggler was given a standout match for WM in previous years as it is. Really isn't a loss, granted I'd rather see him over some goons that will make the card. I just accept reality.


Yeah, I don't think he'll make the card this year but as a fan I'll still be disappointed. Doesn't help that Ziggler's had a poor history at WrestleMania as it is:

WrestleMania 26 - was in a MITB match with 9 other guys.
WrestleMania 27 - 3 minute mixed tag with fucking Snooki.
WrestleMania 28 - 12 man team clusterfuck between Team Johnny and Team Teddy
WrestleMania 29 - Tag Title match, his best showing at WrestleMania to date but the match is still only given 6 minutes.

Never had a singles match at Mania and was only given the time to shine once at WrestleMania 29 and even then the match was too short.

I guess Punk's my only hope for one of my favorites doing anything meaningful at Mania this year. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

29 was def the biggest highlight. MITB was fine too, but he was a longshot to win. Still pulled for him, but I knew that was fandom only.

I got Taker's match per usual & the Punker to only really make me care. Although, I fear it'll be the same as before. Next to no interest on the hole. Not a fun feeling. Here's to hoping they pile on the other guys I love & have a chance to actually make it: Sheamus, Danielson, Shield. I have to play it by ear to know who Cena will work vs.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Put those numbers away NOST, terrible :lmao although the tag at 29 was kinda accecptable

not a fan at all of wwe current direction but its whatevs. Yea Punk's involvement is the only thing worth watching. I'm a big brock guy so that will be good. Taker matches are usually great soo thats a + and will see what :hbk1 does

Thats about it on the interest meter

Edit: Cena match too if its a worthy interesting opponent and not rton2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You only liked Roman Reigns because he got pushed :reigns
> 
> Punk wasn't a heel during the Punk/Joe series. Perfect was a face against Bret at KOTR, but a heel in their equally awesome Summerslam match. If we look strictly at the WWE, the only person I would count is Shawn Michaels. I guess we can count Bryan too if you include his ROH work (vs. Morishima Manhattan Mayhem and vs. Nigel ROH United). Even then, I'm still not sure if those are five star matches. Lately I've been contracting my list of five star matches. The most recent ones that got the boot are Undertaker/HBK WM XXVI and Misawa/Kobashi 1/3/03. Flair/Steamboat from Wrestlewar might be next.



I thought Perfect turned after KotR....I coulda swore he worked that one as a heel but I can always be wrong. You're right though, Summerslam is every bit as good as he's 100% heel there.


Taker/HBK WM26>25 IMO, but both are classics I think. 25 just seems more epic because it was their first meeting, and while everyone had high expectations no one could have expected THAT. Takers face when HBK kicks out of the first tombstone still gets me every single time. "I THINK I JUST HAD AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE" :mark:

Danielson vs Morishima was another recent first time watch for me. Someone was putting it over as better version of Cena/Lesnar. While I don't know if agree whole heatedly with that sentiment, it WAS absolutely sublime. I missed all of Danielson's ROH classics when they happened, but since I joined this thread I've been making a point of going back and trying to catch most of them. Haven't been dissapointed yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Duh, right BROCK. Again, all depends on his opponent. I tend to shut out all the other part-timers and nixed him on accident. I fear he'll lose at WM regardless, so my scenario of him entering as champ is fine by me. After last year, the gloves are off.

Which Danielson vs Morishima the Great match was it, Cactus?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Taker's match will have me interested if he faces Brock or Cena, but no one else. I don't want to see Batista/Taker again. Bryan at this point looks like he might face Bray Wyatt at WrestleMania, which I'm sure many won't like because it's not Bryan/HHH, Bryan/HBK or Bryan in the WWE Title picture, but as someone who's not a fan of Bryan I don't care. Bryan could easily give Bray his best match to date and give him a rub from working with him at the biggest PPV.


----------



## Talleyrand (May 20, 2013)

Not to break up the discussion here but did Raw actually start with TWO wrestling matches tonight? No Triple H talking crap? No opening monologues? TWO wrestling matches? When was the last time that happened.

Taker/Cena is the only match that makes sense. Taker/Lesnar has happened a million times. Taker/Batista already took place at Mania and other PPVs. Taker/Hogan? nah, especially with the Piper rumors circulating. The young talent does not quite have the stature to go against Taker yet (Reigns, Langston). Daniel Bryan Danielson would give Taker a great match but I would much rather see him go over as the next champ at Mania. 

Taker/Cena just seems to fit. Sure, they faced before when Cena was starting his career but I can't remember him facing Taker while he was the face of the company. Plus, Cena could give Taker a good match and be involved in a story line where us marks let a creep of a doubt in our heads about who will win, even though we know Taker will win.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena putting in some fuckin' WORK once again, John boy out to carry Orton at the Rumble and win WOTY again .

Just had a great match with fucking SANDOW of all people once again, watch the throne.

:cena4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao John Cena and Damien Sandow were wrestling like lesser versions of Dolph Ziggler out there. And Daniel Bryan got his ass kicked even with a 4-on-2 advantage against THE USOS.

I still need to see Morishima/Bryan Man Up. Apparently that's just as good as their five star worthy Manhattan Mayhem match. MORISHIMA :lenny


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Or one of the Joe matches in ROH... he was heel then right?).


Nope. 



Cactus Jack said:


> For Punk, totally forgot he was a heel vs Bryan at OTL.


He wasn't. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Even then, I'm still not sure if those are five star matches. Lately I've been contracting my list of five star matches.


Yeah I wanted to answer the question but even if I gave star ratings my five star list would be really bare. I think luchadores would be the only guys who I would have five star matches as both a heel and a face. Even then, IDK if I'd give most of those 'five stars'. Tongue smiley.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not enough 'tongue in cheek' in that post, Jheri.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Just had a great match with fucking SANDOW of all people once again, watch the throne.


Well, considering Sandow is a good wrestler, no surprise there.

Sandow and Cena have some chemistry though no doubt and that helps. Not as good as their match in October, but great one. Only downside is Sandow lost... again. They need to push Sandow asap. Push him like they've been pushing Del Rio... down our fucking throats, and he'll actually make something out of it. 

***1/2 for the match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I got a bunch of five star matches sheared off my list from a while ago really. Ones I have left in the Federation....

FOR SURE *****

Bret Vs Owen (Wrestlemania X)
Bret Vs Austin (Wrestlemania XIII)
HBK Vs Undertaker (HIAC; IYH Badd Blood)
Cena Vs Punk (MITB 2011)
Cena Vs BROCK (Extreme Rules 2012)

Need to rewatch SO much stuff though so yeah....

Recommend me some Sandow, I open myself to being wrong about him, but I'm convinced he isn't that good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only have two ***** myself, so no guy has been in a ***** as a face and a heel. If including ****3/4 matches... well, Punk in his matches against Taker and Lesnar last year qualifies him. Outside of that? Uh... was Lesnar technically a face yet in his No Mercy 02 Cell match? Don't think so... might've been right before he turned, but if he was, he'd be in there.

Edit:

Some good Sandow stuff? Sure, don't have my list right now with exact dates, but:

vs. Sheamus tables match
vs. Rhodes SS (short, but pretty good)
vs. Christian on Main Event at some point I think before MITB
vs. Orton on Raw sometime around MITB
vs. Cena on Main Event in 2012

Throw in the two Ziggler matches he had with those gimmicks as they were fun. Also I think their pre-show match for Battleground was pretty good as well, although I might be confusing it with another match of there's. 

Sandow's plenty good. Not a great worker, but he more than holds his own. Those great Cena matches... as well as the great Orton and Christian matches were just as much him as the other guy.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Was that tables match on RAW? I remember those two having a fantastic RAW match shortly after the switch to 3 hours.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Moustache said:


> Was that tables match on RAW? I remember those two having a fantastic RAW match shortly after the switch to 3 hours.


Think it happened in January last year. Can't recall 100% when it happened though. They've had quite a few and all were decent at the very least imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gonna be honest, Orton-Sandow sounds terrible .

Sheamus-Sandow's Payback kickoff match was fucking great and should have aired on the PPV though. Damien's best work is against Cena & Sheamus, if only he had more time to work against guys like Bryan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck Raw, show soo bad, gonna watch some real stuff, maybe some Bret stuff to get a better opinion


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This Orton/Kofi match is one of the worst matches I've seen in a very long time. I'd much rather watch every single Khali match when he was a main eventer.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Gonna be honest, Orton-Sandow sounds terrible .


I don't know if terrible is the word I'd use, but I wasn't expecting much of anything out of it either. They had a couple of matches actually I think, but the one I'm referring to was great. The other... not so much.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Kofi with the HUGE victory! #1 Contender :mark: 

LEL at Randal attacking Cena's father again


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

fpalm at Kofi winning and then CENAS DAD showing up again, didn't Orton punt that fucker in 2009?

I'm with skins, watching other shit, might watch 1992 war games :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I still can't believe they gave Kofi the big shocking win of the night, and not Sandow. My heart is broken guys. 

Between Kofi beating Orton, Sandow losing, Reigns clearly being the only guy on the Shield that's allowed to pin Punk, and a main event I don't care to see, I don't think I can get any sadder about the show than I am right now. 

Edit: C2D, YOU ALRIGHT?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

#prayforC2D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What just happened w/ kofi/cena/orton was awesome and terrible bad at same time :banderas


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Obviously the big shocker win should have gone to Swagger, man is so much better than fucking Big Show

Fuck it, I'm going to sleep, gotta get up at 5 AM so hopefully the ending of raw isn't that good


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

FUCK that Orton/Kofi match. This booking team needs a clue. Good Sandow/Cena again though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The pop Bryan just got was something even Hogan and Austin couldn't get except at their very peak. That just saved what would have been a horrible RAW.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

That crowd was pretty synchronized


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MAH BOY D BRY ending his 2 week heel run :bryan

I'm still hoping he wins the Rumble, but of course there's Big Dave.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson again. See that WWE? Rumble in a few weeks. You know what to do.

New Age Outlaws & the Orton/Kofi + PUNCHES TO THE FATHER stuff :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Bryan/Wyatts thing should've went to the Rumble at least. They pulled the trigger too soon... BUT DAMN at the crowd response. That was nuts. I don't think there was a single person not chanting "YES" there. That was something special no doubt.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I was just thinking how would Ric Flair vs John Cena at mania sound ? Flair said at the panel he is up for it, just needs to get in shape


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Meh, silly vanilla midget.. Big Dave FTW :/


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anything worth watching from Raw?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. But if there is a way to see Danielson destroy Bray Wyatt, watch it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything worth watching from Raw?


1) Sandow/Cena
2) Last 3 minutes of the show

That's it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I can't remember ever liking a Sandow match off the top of my head. Didn't see the Cena match from last year.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I really liked the Cena/Sandow match. 

Thank goodness :bryan2 is back but I agree they should have kept it going until Rumble. But good for :vince7 seeing that turning :bryan was an awful idea. 

It's cool Batista is coming back and all but with ALL of this talk of him winning the Rumble I could see :vince$ wanting to be smarky and not letting that happen. Watching Taker/Batista at WM 23 right now. Good shit. 

I will be ordering Rumble. Mostly because I have no idea what will happen. Damn you :vince5 !!!




funnyfaces1 said:


> This Orton/Kofi match is one of the worst matches I've seen in a very long time. I'd much rather watch every single Khali match when he was a main eventer.


All of that sounds terrible. So much borings.  



SMITTY said:


> #prayforC2D


Legit LOLd at this


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I watched about 45 seconds total of Orton/Kofi and the only parts I enjoyed were legit cracking up when Kofi beat Orton and then when Orton started "punching" Cena's dad (WHICH SOMEHOW PUT HIM ON A STRETCHER). Needless to say, I probably won't be dying to watch that match.

I'd been planning to order the Rumble, but Bryan destroying Bray actually made me more excited for it. :bryan


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I will go halfsies with a friend when I get Rumble. I honestly have NO idea where they are going. Plus Brock/Show, Cena/Orton....should be solid. Plus it's the Rumble. I fucking love it. Come at me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not sure I can come up with a match with the current roster that sounds like eyeball poison more than Orton v. Kofi does.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I was too caught up in the Bioshock Infinite ending that I was hoping I'd get done before Raw to watch the first half or so. Tuned in right as Mr Cena was getting beat up for the 100th time. :lmao

Kofi beating Orton like that baffles me. They must be getting ready to give him the US title again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I said the same thing Brye. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao

He holds it for 5 weeks, introduce new heel, loses the title at PPV. Possibly tags with someone. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% the formula. 

Eyeball poison is a great way to put it for the scenario.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Orton losing to Kofi really makes him look like a threat to Lesnar..


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything worth watching from Raw?







Dat crowd. :mark:

Just a little disappointed that they pulled the trigger way too soon, felt like they could've got some more mileage out of this angle, but this was still fuckin awesome.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

They should have done this Feb 3rd when I'm at Raw. But YES still very awesome and that crowd went ape shit.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Any chance Batista returns as a heel? I doubt it but a guy can hope. 'Fuck you losers I'm here to win championships and make a shit load of money' Batista is the only Batista I ever liked.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't see him being a heel at all for this first run through WM.. who knows if he'll come back for more.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Any chance Batista returns as a heel? I doubt it but a guy can hope. 'Fuck you losers I'm here to win championships and make a shit load of money' Batista is the only Batista I ever liked.


Not at the beginning at least...he'll be a face vs. ADR before Wrestlemania, then who knows what happens heading into the summer (I think he's face for Wrestlemania too).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

New topic: any favorites out there from the gone but not forgotten program that was Velocity?

fyi, it's a fun project to work on. I should rekindle.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Rey vs Noble is godly.

I didn't watch RAW but fuck I'm glad they seem to have realised Bryan as a heel is not a good idea at this stage.


----------



## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

> New topic: any favorites out there from the gone but not forgotten program that was Velocity?
> 
> fyi, it's a fun project to work on. I should rekindle.











*Colt Cabana...bringing the ass-whooping.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Knew someone elite would be the first to spout off about Mysterio vs Noble. Smug.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't talk about Velocity without mentioning the obvious. BENOIT/REGAL. :mark:



Brye said:


> :lmao
> 
> He holds it for 5 weeks, introduce new heel, loses the title at PPV. Possibly tags with someone. Rinse and repeat.


:lol

-------------------
Relax folks, it's nothing to get worked up about. Randy is gonna destroy that jobber to get even. rton2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

There's a WGTT vs. Funaki/Ultimo tag which is decent, IIRC.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Knew someone elite would be the first to spout off about Mysterio vs Noble. Smug.


 it's amazing.

Also the Benoit/Regal match. There really was a bunch of great stuff on that show tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw thoughts:

:lmao

That is all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Velocity? Benoit/Regal is the first match that comes to mind, every bit as good as their No mercy encounter IMO. Just watched it 2 days ago as a matter of fact. I love how in all "big 3" regal/Benoit matches (Pillman show, velocity, no mercy), Benoit opens Regal up hard way by just head butting him as hard as humanly possible. What a freaking nut. All of those matches are worthy of ****1/2+ IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They have 2 matches on Velocity as well, I think? One in 05 and one in 06?

BRYAN VS CENA took place on Velocity . Not a classic, but cool to see. Oh and Noble Vs Bryan too. Both in 03 . Downloaded the full 03 year of Velocity a while back .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anything important happen on Raw? I forgot to record it


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Brye said:


> :lmao
> 
> He holds it for 5 weeks, introduce new heel, loses the title at PPV. Possibly tags with someone. Rinse and repeat.


Nah, it's because it's THAT TIME AGAIN


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So the Ultimate Warrior's induction was just announced? He wasn't actually there last night?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, they'll be saving his first appearance on TV for the actual HOF ceremony. Cuts the chances of him going apeshit on the mic .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hopefully the HOF ceremony will be on the network live 

Of course something happened on RAW, I turned it off after the Kofi match and apparently it was a legendary pop

My luck fpalm


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hopefully the ending will be on YT, wouldn't mind seeing it....


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I recorded it 

Just have to wait until I get home in like....8 hours 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll just catch the repeat on Thursday.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> They have 2 matches on Velocity as well, I think? One in 05 and one in 06?
> 
> BRYAN VS CENA took place on Velocity . Not a classic, but cool to see. Oh and Noble Vs Bryan too. Both in 03 . Downloaded the full 03 year of Velocity a while back .



Good heavens they did??? I've only ever seen the one in 2005....I'm on a hunt now. Regal/Benoit is unfuckwithable in the ring. Neck and neck with Benoit/Finlay for my favorite match up.


Anyone else just get a massive kick out of watch them struggle/fight over control of an arm in the ring? I don't know why but I just find it riveting watching them lock up and put all their strength into trying to get control of the others arm. That's wrestling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah, C2D is only gonna snap if Orton drops the belt and is working another midcard match come Mania, which isn't gonna happen .

Anybody wanna throw out a few interesting names? I wanna watch some good stuff here .

After RAW last night, is anybody going to doubt CM Punk Vs HHH at Mania? GOD I don't even care if it's the last match (It won't be, it'll probably be the match before the "MAIN EVENT"), just give these guys NO DQ and let them kill each other PLZ. Don't care who wins, just deliver (although I'm 99 percent sure if said match takes place, Hunter is going over again) and try to steal the show (IMPOSSIBLE if Brock/Taker happens but it's my all time dream match so it has a chance in my eyes ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Nah, C2D is only gonna snap if Orton drops the belt and is working another midcard match come Mania, which isn't gonna happen .


There wont be any meltdowns compared to what happened with you last year when Rock ended the reign of terror, though. 

And good to see HHH and Punk work together away from the main event. Don't really care for either so stick them together and I can avoid them, specially the latter. Will be sweet to see Hunter win again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In retrospect, I'm still really pissed about the Rock fuckery.

The Roid :lol.

I <3 you always John Cena.

:cena3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've never wanted Bryan/Lesnar for the title @ Mania 30 more than I do right now.

If they have BROCK plow through Show and then win the title @ EC, Bryan should win the Rumble and face Lesnar for the title. Ultimate underdog story with the crowd eating out of the palm of Bryan's hand the entire match. Worthy of closing the event, too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan/Lesnar
Taker/Cena
HHH/Punk
Orton/Batista

Could be possible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I want a WM 12 rematch. HHH Vs Warrior. Only this time HHH can bury Warrior in 20 seconds 8*D.

WELCOME TO THE HALL OF FAME. *PEDIGREE* *3 COUNT*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd be on board with that for sure.

edit and that :hb


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

He's probably asking Vince now: "Can I book myself to get my win back?"


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Lesnar
> Taker/Cena
> HHH/Punk
> Orton/Batista
> ...


And you got yourself a GOAT MANIA


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> They have 2 matches on Velocity as well, I think? One in 05 and one in 06?
> 
> BRYAN VS CENA took place on Velocity . Not a classic, but cool to see. Oh and Noble Vs Bryan too. Both in 03 . Downloaded the full 03 year of Velocity a while back .





Choke2Death said:


> There wont be any meltdowns compared to what happened with you last year when Rock ended the reign of terror, though.
> 
> And good to see HHH and Punk work together away from the main event. Don't really care for either so stick them together and I can avoid them, specially the latter. Will be sweet to see Hunter win again.



C2D- Jericho talks with Bret Hart on his new podcast, around 50 minutes in he discusses Benoit with him and their theories about brain injury. It's not long but I always feel obligated to inform you whenever i find a wrestler discussing Benoit.

Starbuck- that's my dream card for this year at this point. I don't see it happening, but that's the best scenario as I see it for WM 30.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm wondering who the hell is going to induct Warrior? I lol'd at the video package too. Usually the HOF videos are all sentimental and full of guys talking about how amazing the inductee is. Warrior's video was basically him screaming a promo for 3 minutes. :lol

If I got to choose what card I wanted I'd go for:

Cena/Taker
HHH/Bryan
Brock/Batista
Punk/Orton

Orton retains, Punk wins the Rumble, done. Cena gets butthurt he didn't win, decides to challenge the streak, done. HHH screws Bryan out of the Rumble, Bryan comes after him, done. Brock and Batista...nuff said, done. 

We're getting close to finding out what's coming our way though and I'm not buying into anything until it's made official. Interesting times in the E for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> C2D- Jericho talks with Bret Hart on his new podcast, around 50 minutes in he discusses Benoit with him and their theories about brain injury. It's not long but I always feel obligated to inform you whenever i find a wrestler discussing Benoit.
> 
> Starbuck- that's my dream card for this year at this point. I don't see it happening, but that's the best scenario as I see it for WM 30.


:mark: I'll have to DL that podcast, have a linky plz?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm slowly starting to NOT look forward to WM XXX. I have little faith in WWE putting on a card that interests me. Orton likely being in a major match doesn't help, because there really isn't ANYONE I wanna see him against. Same for Batista. And HHH. Yet all 3 are likely to have main matches on the card, either against each other (yeah, gets them out of the way with, but still provides an uninteresting and most likely SHIT match), or against someone else (aka someone talented, bringing down any potential great WM matches that could be had).

Gonna make a prediction and say THE STREAK will be the only match I'll legitimately be interested in come WM.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite realistic Mania card would be:

Orton/Batista (title)
Taker/Brock
HHH/Punk
Cena, Bryan, Hogan/Wyatts

Bryan will get a huge rub standing alongside the Hulkster and HULK can just stand on the apron and just get tagged in to throw a couple of fists and a big boot then let the other two finish the job. I'd rather see HHH/Bryan but it's clear that HHH/Punk is the direction they're heading to, specially with the NAO turning on Punk last night. Now if HBK would agree to a return, it would be great to have him face Bryan but it seems more unlikely now as if they have moved on.



Cactus Jack said:


> C2D- Jericho talks with Bret Hart on his new podcast, around 50 minutes in he discusses Benoit with him and their theories about brain injury. It's not long but I always feel obligated to inform you whenever i find a wrestler discussing Benoit.


Already listened to it, but thanks anyways.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Lesnar
> Taker/Cena
> HHH/Punk
> Orton/Batista
> ...


Now that's a headlining card to get moist for 8*D. Well maybe not so much Orton/Batista but I'll take it if the other players fall into place like that. I would love it if that is the direction WWE goes in on this Road To WrestleMania XXX. Bryan winning the Royal Rumble and facing the ultimate champion in THE BEAST Brock Lesnar would not only be a great wrestling encounter but the storytelling aspect has so much potential with their size differences and the aggression both would bring. The physicality would no doubt be there. It always is when you are dealing with Brock Lesnar, but Bryan can bring it as well if you have seen his matches in Ring Of Honor with Takeshi Morishima he works from the bottom but also coming at the monster head on. Add Paul Heyman to build and hype up the unenviable task that Lesnar will be for a true underdog challenger, plus Bryan's extraordinary support from audiences at such a passionate and white hot level right now, and you have a WWE Championship Match worthy of this WrestleMania.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

What I want for main events @ Mania:

WWE Title
Cena vs. Bryan

Streak Match
Brock vs. Taker

Street Fight
CM Punk vs. Triple H

Grudge Match
Orton vs. Batista

3 on 2 Handicap
Sheamus & Hogan vs. The Real Americans & Piper


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

King Cal said:


> I want a WM 12 rematch. HHH Vs Warrior. Only this time HHH can bury Warrior in 20 seconds 8*D.
> 
> WELCOME TO THE HALL OF FAME. *PEDIGREE* *3 COUNT*


OH MY GOD :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

I still marked for the Outlaws last night, and marked for them turning on Punk, because I knew what it signaled. Dat ending though. FUCKING :mark:


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Lesnar
> Taker/Cena
> HHH/Punk
> Orton/Batista
> ...


:mark: 

Throw in Jericho Match, Shield Match, Tag Match + Appearances hopefully from Hogan, Warrior, HBK, Austin and its looking GOAT!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> :mark: I'll have to DL that podcast, have a linky plz?



Repped. WWE HAS to give Bryan a shot at Lesnar at some point, right? There is no way they let the opportunity for a masterpiece slide through their fingers to give us something that's already been done.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They gave us Lesnar Vs HHH THREE TIMES and now Lesnar Vs Show (not that I'm complaining TOO MUCH about this one). Them NOT giving us Bryan Vs Lesnar is more likely than them actually giving it us.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret being interviewed ? Did he talk about how great his was for majority :ti


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

King Cal said:


> They gave us Lesnar Vs HHH THREE TIMES and now Lesnar Vs Show (not that I'm complaining TOO MUCH about this one). Them NOT giving us Bryan Vs Lesnar is more likely than them actually giving it us.


I can see why you would say this too and the notion falls in line with what Lesnar has done thus far in his special attraction encounters with veterans. An Undertaker match at Mania could very well be in place and I will gladly take that main event in the lineup too. It's the combo of a Lesnar/Bryan title match and Taker/Cena for the streak is too enticing not to dream about and hope for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I try to hope in as few ways as possible, especially when it comes to WWE. I always end up disappointed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Repped. WWE HAS to give Bryan a shot at Lesnar at some point, right? There is no way they let the opportunity for a masterpiece slide through their fingers to give us something that's already been done.


Thankyou. i owe you some rep 



SKINS25 said:


> Bret being interviewed ? Did he talk about how great his was for majority :ti


Leave Bret alone plz :angry:










Insane.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Honestly, Bryan/Lesnar for the title and Taker/Cena for the streak, along with Punk/HHH would be GOLD. Throw in Batista, Jericho, Hogan involvement and I'm SOLD.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

With good reason, Cal. They had the opportunity to make WrestleMania 29 awesome with all the star power at their disposal, the fresh potentially intriguing storylines, yet they went with two rematches at the top and we saw how that all turned out. They can have all these superstars and legends return and still screw up the card in the end.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, Bryan/Lesnar would be brilliant, Lesnar is such a beast, those nearfalls and the crowd DESPERATE for Bryan to win, in fact I'd have it end in similar fashion to Mania 10 or Unforgiven 01' with the locker room coming out to congratulate Bryan with Taker at the end and having him hoisted with 80 thousand YES CHANTS! 

:mark: 

OW FUCK I've worked myself again :side: Bring on Orton/Batista for the title :HHH2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah Bryan/Lesnar for the title and Cena/Taker would both be MOTY like Cena/Bryan Punk/Lesnar from SS. 

Watched Mysterio/Jericho Bash 09 and my god I LOVE that match. Gotta admit probably top 5-10 favorite match for me, I feel like I'd be entertained no matter how many times I watched it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I can't even predict this WM. Still so many question marks it's ridiculous. So many great opportunities though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Rock really isn't coming back for this Mania right?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

No he's not, we defiantly would have heard something about the rock negotiating with them by now. IMO The Rock should headline this years HOF. Its a milestone WM that deserves a huge name. Rock would be perfect to headline this year's HOF.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Warrior is a huge name, tbh


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I still want Randy Savage for this year HOF


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Like Meltzer said I prefer they just have one big name each year. Selfishly though I hope next years is big.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mick Foley wasn't kidding when he said that this year would have a hard time following last year's HOF class. Apparently though, he'd be wrong - Warrior confirmed, plus Roberts, apparently New Age Outlaws, and then some other big name like Lita or Paul Bearer = :mark:


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*This doc's gonna be something.*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

OH. 

MY.

GOD.

:mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

That laugh . THIS DVD JUST SCREAMS AWESOMENESS :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> No he's not, we defiantly would have heard something about the rock negotiating with them by now. IMO The Rock should headline this years HOF. Its a milestone WM that deserves a huge name. Rock would be perfect to headline this year's HOF.


Rock headlined the last three. He can stay away for a bit.

I still can't forget the "And I'm never going away." :ti


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Warrior is already headlining the HOF this year anyway, hence them announcing it this soon. Nowadays they announce the headliner around the RR time then the rest during the build to WM.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

IIRC Mick Foley was announced first last year and the headliner ended up being Bruno Sammartino who was announced a few weeks after.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't that only because they still hadn't gotten Bruno's approval at that time though?


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Guys just accept that Undertaker's opponent will be WWE's choice Lesnar, or his personal choice, Bryan. Therefore making Lesnar vs Bryan impossible. :sad:

I am confused about this whole Lesnar going for the title thing though. Does it suggest Lesnar's competing in his first elimination chamber? Because that'll be Goldberg + McIntyre + Henry combined levels of destruction.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lesnar in the chamber... PLEASE LET THAT HAPPEN! :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need something too watch


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Need something too watch


Kota Ibushi vs Nakamura G1 day 4 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS, watch Vader vs. The Boss (big Bossman) from Spring Stampede 1994, if you want something more modern watch Jomo/Sheamus TLC 2010.

Both matches are amazeballs. You can't go wrong either way.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Can someone link me to the Steamboat/Rude IM match?

Really wanna see this :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Can someone link me to the Steamboat/Rude IM match?
> 
> Really wanna see this :mark:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...ron-man-match-beach-blast_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SKINS25 said:


> Need something too watch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52DyOdMTcZU


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FLUX said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...ron-man-match-beach-blast_sport?search_algo=2


thanks :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


> Kota Ibushi vs Nakamura G1 day 4
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App





FLUX said:


> SKINS, watch Vader vs. The Boss (big Bossman) from Spring Stampede 1994, if you want something more modern watch Jomo/Sheamus TLC 2010.
> 
> Both matches are amazeballs. You can't go wrong either way.





Chismo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52DyOdMTcZU


Thanks all,

Yea that jmo/sheamus ladder is :mark: 2nd best IMO only to the orignal. I decided to watch that G1 day 4 match

@ Sono,Cody or anyone else into Japanese Wrestling, how is that match received ? Ive personally go off and on stars monthy but what did that get ? I saw in the YT MOTY praise, idk if I'd go that way but still good, I like how it keeps building

I think I'm gonna watch some more japanese wrestling. Does Dbryan has anything good over there ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So just watched Rude/Steamer IM match

HOLY FUCK THAT WAS AWESOME, time flew by, and even though I'm ADD I didn't pause the video or look at other shit ONCE, fucking amazing stuff. 

finally an IM match that beats Angle/Lesnar, easily the best ever IMO


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the dates of the Punk/Hero IWA TLC and '90' minutes matches?

EDIT • Found em.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Thanks all,
> 
> Yea that jmo/sheamus ladder is :mark: 2nd best IMO only to the orignal. I decided to watch that G1 day 4 match
> 
> ...


Tell me you didn't just say JAPS WRESTLING? I fucking love that match. It was pretty well received from what I've observed. Around ****- **** 3/4 regarding star ratings. It's one of my favs from the entire year and above any 2013 WWE Match if I'd have to rate it. Check out Ishii/Shibata from the same event.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12xkql_katsuyori-shibata-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw-g1-climax-23-08-04-13_sport


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley-dunno if you'll see this, but the Morishima/Danielson match I have just says "MMII". Is that the best one? Hard to imagine there is a better one but I'd love to be surprised.


Really feeling like watching some more Big man vs Little man matches, so Vader vs HBK SS 1996 is up next. Just finishing Henry vs Punk No DQ now, every bit as good as I remembered.

Ishii/Shibata is otherworldly. So fucking stiff and nasty. I knew nothing about either guy before watching it and it didn't matter at all.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched this for the first time. It may very well be one of my favourite matches of all time. Oh my lord. Screw me for not watching this sooner.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha I was hesitate in writing that  above Punk/brock ? high praise, it I had to I slap a **** on it, beginning was a tad slow but I apericate that its just laying the ground work of the entire match

Yea I'll check that out, 


Anybody in here know Dbryan stuff in japan, any good ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SKINS HEEL TURN

Watching RR 92 ATM, in the mood for some early 90s so why not


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)




----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Anything worth watching from Extreme Rules 2010?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena Vs Batista ~ Last Man Standing .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I gotta say Sono, your fucking Brock sigs. :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk/Mysterio = MOTN at extreme rules 2010. 

****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> John Cena Vs Batista ~ Last Man Standing .


That match was fucking unbelievable. Definitely deserves to be a contender for MOTY 2010.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Anyone know the dates of the Punk/Hero IWA TLC and '90' minutes matches?


2/3 falls was Feb 7th 2003, TLC was Feb 9th 2002.



ArnoldTricky said:


> Anything worth watching from Extreme Rules 2010?


Punk/Rey was good but kinda disappointing. Thought Cena/Batista was a WWE MOTYC, though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If you think about it, 2010 was pretty poor for match quality. I guess HBK/Taker would win that award. No many great ones that year though. 

I liked Rey/Punk at ER, a lot better then their WM match. I'll have to re watch Cena/Batista LMS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Yeah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

anyone know which one is better? I have the 2/3 falls one DL'd I think


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Cactus Jack said:


> Hayley-dunno if you'll see this, but the Morishima/Danielson match I have just says "MMII". Is that the best one? Hard to imagine there is a better one but I'd love to be surprised.
> 
> 
> Really feeling like watching some more Big man vs Little man matches, so Vader vs HBK SS 1996 is up next. Just finishing Henry vs Punk No DQ now, every bit as good as I remembered.
> ...


I like the match Morishima and Danielson had at Final Battle just as much. They had 3 others between the first match and the last match. The in between ones were all really good Manhattan Mayhem II (their first match) and Final Battle are both 5* matches for me and I really don't give that rating out lightly. 

After watching that series Bryan/Brock should become a dream match for everyone.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> *If you think about it, 2010 was pretty poor for match quality.* I guess HBK/Taker would win that award. No many great ones that year though.


Have to disagree w/ this completely

Some really really good stuff in that year,


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> anyone know which one is better? I have the 2/3 falls one DL'd I think


I thought about watching one of them but I really, really, really don't want to sit through 55 or 90 minutes of sloppy indy backyard KENTA-inspired CM Punk. I don't even like the actual KENTA.



xdoomsayerx said:


> If you think about it, 2010 was pretty poor for match quality.


It wasn't a really high-end match year, but the consistency with SmackDown and SuperStars more than made up for it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I like the match Morishima and Danielson had at Final Battle just as much. They had 3 others between the first match and the last match. The in between ones were all really good Manhattan Mayhem II (their first match) and Final Battle are both 5* matches for me and I really don't give that rating out lightly.
> 
> After watching that series Bryan/Brock should become a dream match for everyone.



Absolutely. Really, seeing Punk put on that classic at Summerslam with Brock REALLY made me want to see what Bryan could do in with a monster like Lesnar. No disrespect to Punk, as his performance was absolute perfection in that SS match, but I just happen to prefer Danielson to him as a baby face. I don't care if they don't do it at Mania, as long as they do it AT SOME POINT before Brock rides off into the sunset. Although the sooner the better, Bryan is never gonna be any hotter as a face than he is this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It'd be perfect if Brock has six matches left in his contract now to fulfill.

Would be perfect booking if it went something like: (being realistic here)

Royal Rumble: vs Big Show
Elimination Chamber: vs Orton
Wrestlemania: vs Undertaker
SummerSlam: vs Batista
Royal Rumble: vs Bryan
Wrestlemania 31: vs Rock

Would also want a Sheamus match somewhere in there and all the big Brock dream matches are fulfilled for both the nostalgia marks and those in this thread.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:ti at these people trying to tell me that Ambrose is the best in the Shield

anyone else think the dude is terrible in the ring?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose is the worst guy in the Shield but that isn't much of a criticism.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose is not terrible in the ring. Indie Punk is not terrible in the ring (and was not KENTA-like at all). Let's all hope that Bryan will recover quickly from his concussion.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh fuck D-Bry got concussed? He better be ready for the Rumble.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On The Shield, right now it's a toss-up between Ambrose and Rollins. Reigns is dead last and not even close to the other two. Ambrose has DEM MIC SKILLZ but Rollins has DEM RING SKILLZ. I think right now I may slightly prefer Rollins as he can be really good on the mic, and while Ambrose can be really good in the ring, it's not as consistent imo. Meh, it's a tough one.

Ambrose certainly isn't terrible in the ring. His matches with Punk in December shows that there's something there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

been watch Japanese wrestling :banderas may never watch wwe again, srrs guys hope you have a good career Dolph

Yuji Nagata :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Andre vs. Killer Khan. Then watch Stan Hansen vs. Andre.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah fuck Nagata, watch Andre.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> *Yeah fuck Nagata*, watch Andre.


Did you remember to take your medications today? In the past day, you praised Lex Luger, slandered the GOAT, and said this drivel towards Nagata.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Finally got around to seeing the Orton/Bryan match from December. Wow. I knew it had to be good but I wasn't expecting it to be THAT good. Where was that intensity when they were headlining PPVs? Excellent match, even with the DQ finish. I didn't hate the finish mind you, didn't even dislike it, but if this had the conclusive, satisfying ending of the SummerSlam main event I'm confident people would be calling it a better match than Cena/Bryan. I would anyway. Best Orton performance and match in a long, long time. Gives me hope for the big matches he'll be involved in on the RTWM and beyond, although I'll probably say this now and lose that hope after his match with Cena at the Rumble. And as great as Orton was Bryan was even better. I like Cesaro plenty but Danielson is still head and shoulders above the rest for me.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Finally got around to seeing the Orton/Bryan match from December. Wow. I knew it had to be good but I wasn't expecting it to be THAT good. Where was that intensity when they were headlining PPVs? Excellent match, even with the DQ finish. I didn't hate the finish mind you, didn't even dislike it, but if this had the conclusive, satisfying ending of the SummerSlam main event I'm confident people would be calling it a better match than Cena/Bryan. I would anyway. Best Orton performance and match in a long, long time. Gives me hope for the big matches he'll be involved in on the RTWM and beyond, although I'll probably say this now and lose that hope after his match with Cena at the Rumble. And as great as Orton was Bryan was even better. I like Cesaro plenty but Danielson is still head and shoulders above the rest for me.


Agree with a lot of this. I loved the finish. It was inconclusive and _perfectly_ timed. Waited until peak audience heat to low blow clearly, and in the middle of the ring. Old school heel finish, and making being "dirty" count. It's the best of their 5-6 singles matches, over the street fight, imo. A nice bitter taste to leave you with until their feud is picked back up.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> Agree with a lot of this. I loved the finish. It was inconclusive and _perfectly_ timed. Waited until peak audience heat to low blow clearly, and in the middle of the ring. Old school heel finish, and making being "dirty" count. It's the best of their 5-6 singles matches, over the street fight, imo. A nice bitter taste to leave you with until their feud is picked back up.


I'm not high on their street fight so for me it was by FAR their best match. Their PPV matches were okay and they had a match on Smackdown that I liked but this was the only time they managed to produce something great. I'm actually baffled that they managed to have a match this good because they didn't show any signs of good chemistry until that match. Even though their PPV series was marred by overbooking and crappy finishes that's not an excuse for the overall uninspiring nature of their matches. I kind of want to compare it to HHH/Orton but they needed a gimmick to put together their one outstanding match. Bryan and Orton just finally clicked at like the 7th time of asking.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

SKINS25 said:


> @ Sono,Cody or anyone else into Japanese Wrestling, how is that match received ? Ive personally go off and on stars monthy but what did that get ? I saw in the YT MOTY praise, idk if I'd go that way but still good, I like how it keeps building


The match is every reason why Nakamura stays as a favourite of mine even when he descends into his bad mannerisms and no-selling (Nakamura/Suzuki later in that week or Nakamura/Tanahashi at WrestleKingdom are good examples of me loathing the guy). His performance here is other-worldly in taking Ibushi (who is rubbish) to a great match.




funnyfaces1 said:


> Did you remember to take your medications today? In the past day, you praised Lex Luger, slandered the GOAT, and said this drivel towards Nagata.


Nagata has been abysmal for a while now, and his attempt to live in a fantasy world where he is some MMA extraordinaire isn't helping the situation.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Obviously as soon as I say that Bryan is hands down better than Cesaro I find out that Cesaro had a match with Regal on NXT (yeah I know I'm late). Naturally said match is amazing and Cesaro is amazing in it. I still have Danielson above him but he definitely closed the gap with that showing.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

This is about the WWE Rumble 2006. It's my first time actually watching anything Benoit related since I saw him during the AE last (about a 13 year gap at least). Keeping my personal feelings aside, one of the first things that jumped out at me were the head-butts to HHH as well as the flying headbutt off the rope (and him convulsing right after). 

One of the things that struck out at me even more than that actual head shots was how Cole sold their "impressiveness" by highlighting that headbutting people like that caused Benoit to have his head busted open. That's something I did not know at all. I'm not sure if he would cause it via blading after a headbutt, or actually hit his head to the point of busting it open. 

I don't want to turn this into a typical Benoit bashing / defending discussion. I just want to ask whether him busting his head open without blading during matches happened or not.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

He definitely busted himself open without blading sometimes. It's called 'hard way'.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

FLUX said:


> Just watched this for the first time. It may very well be one of my favourite matches of all time. Oh my lord. Screw me for not watching this sooner.



Then watch this:






One of the greatest PURE brawls ever, the entire match is nothing but illegal punches, forearms, elbows and shit. What a dickheads. The match is only famous for Vader almost losing his eye, unfortunately. It's much, much more than that. It's better than Hansen/Andre, which is good, but overrated.

VADER :mark:




SKINS25 said:


> Anybody in here know Dbryan stuff in japan, any good ?


Eh, nothing too special. Had few good matches in NOAH (two nice gems with KENTA, few tags) and two or three good matches in NJPW. The problem is, he was just another Junior out there. "Oh, so you're this hotshot from US indys? No fucks given, you're jobbing to Jado tomorrow."

I remember liking this match, although I haven't checked it in years:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Chismo said:


> One of the greatest PURE brawls ever, the entire match is nothing but illegal punches, forearms, elbows and shit.


Kawada vs Hansen on 2/28/93 is a must watch if you want to watch a war. ***** from me and a match I've watched at least 15 times since I first saw it in early 2012.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, but Vader is somehow connected to this section, Hansen and Kawada are not, heh.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

sry just figured i'd throw out a hansen match since you did .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> been watch Japanese wrestling :banderas may never watch wwe again, srrs guys hope you have a good career Dolph
> 
> Yuji Nagata :mark:


what did you watch


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Nearing an end for 2005 matches. Trying to watch everything that people consider ****1/4+. These are what I have. Anybody want to recommend more?

Angle vs HBK - WM 21 
Money in the Bank match - WM 21
Eddie vs Angle - 4/14/05
Cena vs JBL - I Quit match - Judgment Day 05
Tanaka vs Awesome - ONS 05
Benoit vs Regal - Velocity 05 
HHH vs Batista - Hell in a Cell match - Vengeance 05
Matt Hardy vs Edge - Cage match - Unforgiven 
Rey vs Eddie - 6/23/05 - 
Elimination Chamber match - New Years Revolution 05 
HHH vs Batista - Hell in a Cell match - Vengeance 05 
Benjamin vs HBK - 5/2/05
HBK vs Angle - Vengeance


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Taker vs. Orton x4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair carries Angle to a great match on RAW in June. Eddie vs Mysterio from Judgment Day & GAB have to make it on there. All the Undertaker vs Orton single matches too. At least one of the Benoit vs Orton matches to end the series vs Booker is really great iirc. Think it was late 2005 & not early 2006. Mysterio vs Super Crazy is probably still better than all the other Angle matches listed and that bad Cena vs JBL match. Remove probably. Confident b/c they suck. I'd nix those b/c they're not worth the time, but that's just my opinion.

I could think of more, but bah. Far, far too lazy to look and refresh myself.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched most of the matches on my list, sans two. I REALLY liked that JBL/Cena match. Going to throw in HHH/Flair cage and LMS matches to. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I have Taker vs Orton from WM, SSlam, and Armageddon. When was the other one?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Third match from Smackdown. Sometime post-SummerSlam. Original "tie-breaker" in the series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget HHH Vs Flair in a cage at TT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

27 minutes later, it's Cal.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Don't forget HHH Vs Flair in a cage at TT.



Was just gonna say that. The LMS at Survivor Series is really good too just not in the same league as the cage.

The Benoit/Edge Last Man Standing match at Backlash is awesome, as is Jericho/Benjamin from the same event. I'm a big fan of Jericho/Cena from Summerslam although others aren't as high on it as me.

Also, the Awesome/Tanaka match from ONS is excellent.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

This year's rumble match is looking promising. 

ALL 3 shield members, Punk, Batista, Bryan (most likely), Kane (so called protecting punk), Big E Langston. 

Most likely we'll be getting Sheamus, Jericho, and RVD as surprise entrants as well. 

Hmmm wonder if the loser of Cena/Orton will enter??? I wouldn't doubt it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two more popular TV bouts I'm big on from 2005:

Edge vs Michaels - Street Fight
Edge vs Hardy - Street Fight

Actually love Masters vs Michaels from Unforgiven too. That's all I got from Shawn in that year. Still shocks me I love those matches. His body of work is largely "there" for me outside of tags.

I feel like I'm leaving out some proper slugfests.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> 27 minutes later, it's Cal.


Lol, I actually posted right after NotoriousTCG mentioned the Undertaker/Orton matches, but this shitty fucking forum took its time posting my post apparently. As if I need help looking like a retard!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It keeps you being Britta per usual.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The forum Cal'd me .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Reaper Jones said:


> This is about the WWE Rumble 2006. It's my first time actually watching anything Benoit related since I saw him during the AE last (about a 13 year gap at least). Keeping my personal feelings aside, one of the first things that jumped out at me were the head-butts to HHH as well as the flying headbutt off the rope (and him convulsing right after).
> 
> One of the things that struck out at me even more than that actual head shots was how Cole sold their "impressiveness" by highlighting that headbutting people like that caused Benoit to have his head busted open. That's something I did not know at all. I'm not sure if he would cause it via blading after a headbutt, or actually hit his head to the point of busting it open.
> 
> I don't want to turn this into a typical Benoit bashing / defending discussion. I just want to ask whether him busting his head open without blading during matches happened or not.


He would always headbutt stiffly and yeah, it would lead to bleeding. Stuff like that is sadly what caused his brain to be so horribly damaged leading to his demise.



bigbuxxx said:


> Nearing an end for 2005 matches. Trying to watch everything that people consider ****1/4+. These are what I have. Anybody want to recommend more?


In addition to the 4 Taker/Orton matches already mentioned (Smackdown match is from 16 September), you should give the handicap casket match from No Mercy a try as well. There's a lot more good stuff from that year but I think you've already got the very best mentioned or recommended already.

Two very good TV matches also follow each other back to back:

Benoit vs Edge - Raw after WM (4/4)
Benoit vs Christian - Raw 11/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Better than having your own forum do it to you. 8*D


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Just feel like I have to post this, because it is a forgotten gem. Benoit/Orton had some classic matches but I never see anyone acknowledge the existence of this one. This was 3 days before Summerslam 2005. I feel the need to pimp this match, so here ya go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOgxsEH1K0


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> Just feel like I have to post this, because it is a forgotten gem. Benoit/Orton had some classic matches but I never see anyone acknowledge the existence of this one. This was 3 days before Summerslam 2005. I feel the need to pimp this match, so here ya go!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOgxsEH1K0


I enjoy that match a lot, but it's one of the weaker in their series. Would put SummerSlam, Raw 16/8/04, SD 30/12/05, 13/1 and 27/1/06 all above it. Not a diss because all of their matches are at least very good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam isn't special. Damn, did that match take a dive in quality.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch show/jbl from NWO and show/angle/jbl from the rumble for 05 shit 

Pretty fun stuff 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love those. Most involving JBL's title reign I'm generally high on.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Also angle/cena/hbk from TT

Underrated because its overshadowed by flair/hhh 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> SummerSlam isn't special. Damn, did that match take a dive in quality.


It isn't as intense as the Raw rematch or as good on the mat as their final Best of 7 match but I still enjoy the hell out of it every time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was disinterested for a lot of what they were doing on the latest go around. Too bad. Used to always hold it in high regard. So much of the match is jocking for position. Never hitting any sort of gear. That's even the way the finish was produced. Soooooooo glad I know their rematch the next night better. Now that's stellar.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You must be the only guy I ever knew that doesn't like Benoit/Orton SSlam that much 

As a matter of fact, I sorta disliked the Raw rematch, but admitedly I just wasn't into it as much as the SSlam. Perhaps due to how much Benoit controlling big part of the match bugged me personally.

Anyway, I sorta hope Kane is inserted into the RR match this year and BREAK DAT ELIMINATION RECORD :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw Re-Match > SS Match, but I still love the SS match. Benoit is just fucking GODLY in the Raw match. Orton is great too but Benoit overshadows him by like a bazillion. Is Bazillion a word because my browser spell check ain't underlining it. That's awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I was disinterested for a lot of what they were doing on the latest go around. Too bad. Used to always hold it in high regard. So much of the match is jocking for position. Never hitting any sort of gear. That's even the way the finish was produced. Soooooooo glad I know their rematch the next night better. Now that's stellar.


I admit the finish was kinda out of nowhere although I guess that's what they were going for. But the reason it feels like it never kicks into a higher gear is because the crowd was silent for nearly all of it. They did start trading signatures back and forth heading towards the finish. It's just the lack of crowd noise that makes it come across differently.



ATF said:


> As a matter of fact, I sorta disliked the Raw rematch, but admitedly I just wasn't into it as much as the SSlam. Perhaps due to how much Benoit controlling big part of the match bugged me personally.


That's exactly what I love about that match. Benoit wants to win back his championship and doesn't take it easy for one minute. And what makes it even better is the fact that there's not a dull moment with Benoit on the offense. He's always got some great moves to hit opponents with which makes all his control segments extremely fun to watch. You should give it another try.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol, no. Crowd noise doesn't mean anything towards the work. I mean, what?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I don't know, Benoit killing Orton was a well intentioned idea, sure, but imho, it just made Orton look like an easy victim of a champ, even if eventually he did won. I would've given Orton a little more offense tbh. Maybe I will give it another shot, though. Maybe not. :side:

EDIT: Who says crowd was the mattering subject regarding my opinion? It was a factor, but not THE factor. If I'd measure things by the crowds alone, Hogan/Andre would truly be one of the all-time great matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I admit the finish was kinda out of nowhere although I guess that's what they were going for. But the reason it feels like it never kicks into a higher gear is because the crowd was silent for nearly all of it. They did start trading signatures back and forth heading towards the finish. It's just the lack of crowd noise that makes it come across differently.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I love about that match. Benoit wants to win back his championship and doesn't take it easy for one minute. And what makes it even better is the fact that there's not a dull moment with Benoit on the offense. He's always got some great moves to hit opponents with which makes all his control segments extremely fun to watch. You should give it another try.



I need to see that match they had on Raw after Summerslam, it's the only one of their series I haven't seen. If anyone has a link it would be much appreciated.


As it stands, the mat wrestling clinic they put on in January of 2006 on Smackdown, a week or so before the No Holds Barred, remains my favorite of the bunch. Outside of the bloodbath Randall had with Foley at Backlash, it's probably my favorite match of his. Watch those two matches back to back and it's impossible not to come away highly impressed by Orton, they are just completely different matches and he adapts his style perfectly. His selling in the Foley match especially is just a site to behold, other than Brock there isn't another guy that young who figured out selling so quickly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> lol, no. Crowd noise doesn't mean anything towards the work. I mean, what?


I think it can have an effect. It doesn't take away from match quality if it's good but sometimes it takes away from some of the impact. For instance, with a hot crowd, it would've made the last 5 minutes of that SummerSlam match much more exciting as they traded signature moves after finishing the 'jocking for position' part of it. But since they were silent, it can make it feel different as if they were still just trading headlocks until the finish randomly popped up.



Cactus Jack said:


> I need to see that match they had on Raw after Summerslam, it's the only one of their series I haven't seen. If anyone has a link it would be much appreciated.


You'll love it.








> As it stands, the mat wrestling clinic they put on in January of 2006 on Smackdown, a week or so before the No Holds Barred, remains my favorite of the bunch. Outside of the bloodbath Randall had with Foley at Backlash, it's probably my favorite match of his. Watch those two matches back to back and it's impossible not to come away highly impressed by Orton, they are just completely different matches and he adapts his style perfectly. His selling in the Foley match especially is just a site to behold, other than Brock there isn't another guy that young who figured out selling so quickly.


I rewatched that match a couple of days ago in its 8 year anniversary and I love it even more now. After watching his work from 2004-2007, I don't know how anyone can deny that Orton is extremely talented. He was just sooooooo good back then. Sucks we don't see him being nearly as good very often nowadays.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Cody on Benoit/Orton Summerslam. Think it's held in high regard due to it being Orton's first title and the crowd cheering for him. In honesty, the finish was super anti-climactic. No build at all and he literally did just hit the RKO "outta nowhere" and it felt really flat to me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Best Of 7 Benoit/Orton was a masterpiece imo and maybe, just maybe better than SSlam as far as I'm concerned. They blended just perfectly to create some of the most smartly paced and somewhat realistic aggressive wrestling I've seen in WWE TV. That to me is their stellar star. I miss that Orton. But we did get a glimpse of him in the Bryan December match. Hopefully we do again come Royal Rumble against Cena. Especially since Randy needs to redeem himself after that puke-inducingly dull match with Kofi.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

What are the greatest matches that happened on a RR PPV? (including the Rumble itself I guess)

I want to get hyped.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Real large problem is how the match all felt the same in every portion. The start felt no different than the end and that's where the abrupt end hurt the most. Although, it really isn't a mega flaw or anything. The whole match is just sort of "there" now, for me. Dipping in and out of interest as I'm watching. Clearly far from bad, default second best match on the show, but nothing how I used to feel about it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

92 Rumble match is typically considered GOAT. Lots of people love Angle/Benoit from RR03, but it's polarizing. Benoit/Jericho ladder from 01.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah I understand your gripes with them playing it kinda soft from beggining to end but the idea was exactly that - it played off the concept of Orton keeping up with the veteran champ in every corner and situation, which aided the RKO outta nowhere in the ending since it was something Benoit couldn't see coming (nor could anybody) and was caught off guard by the rookie. To each his own feelings obviously.



DoubtGin said:


> What are the greatest matches that happened on a RR PPV? (including the Rumble itself I guess)
> 
> I want to get hyped.


Imo that would be HHH/Cactus 2000, Quebecers/Harts 1994, Cena/Umaga 2007, Orient Express/Rockers 1991, Benoit/Jericho 2001, Bret/Diesel 1995 and the 1992, 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2007 RR matches. If it's your cup of tea, Angle/Benoit 2003 too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Especially since Randy needs to redeem himself after that puke-inducingly dull match with Kofi.


I know Orton's rep in the past few years hasn't been great and he's not immune to fucking up when it matters but c'mon, that was KOFI! Unless you're Cesaro, it's hard to have a good match with him. And maybe SHEAMUS too.



DoubtGin said:


> What are the greatest matches that happened on a RR PPV? (including the Rumble itself I guess)
> 
> I want to get hyped.


For Rumble matches, 2004 is the best imo. For recent ones, 2009 is the best of them. For non-Rumble matches, Benoit/Angle, Show/Brock from 2003, Cena/Umaga from 07, Benoit/Jericho from 01, Orton/Hardy from 08 and Edge/HBK from 05 just to name a few.

Oh and of course Punk/Rock from last year. :troll


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah but it was still a two-man dance, and Orton had to take at least 20% of the blame. Seriously, regardless of you are, you just don't have that level of boring in a match.

At least he went psycho a bit rton2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets just not talk about the shite, guys. Best to be avoided and ignored.

Royal Rumble '92. Now that's what the match should have been every year. So. Many. Characters.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was bored last night, stuck in the greatest superstars of the 2000's documentary in. Apparently I'd got so far into it before and stopped watching, and my PS3 remembered where it was. Right as the Orton part started :lmao. I must have got fed up and decided to turn it off when he came on the screen :lmao.

Watched one of the extras on the first disc, which was JBL calling out Undertaker, only for a midget Undertaker to come out. Was funny. Then the real Undertaker came out, and chokeslammed the midget and I laughed more than I should have .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Minis! :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fatties :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> What are the greatest matches that happened on a RR PPV? (including the Rumble itself I guess)
> 
> I want to get hyped.


THE BEST OF THE BEST

The Rockers Vs The Orient Express (1991)
Royal Rumble Match (1992)
Bret Hart Vs Diesel (1995)
Vader Vs The Undertaker (1997)
Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker (1998)
Triple H Vs Cactus Jack (2000)
Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho (2001)
Royal Rumble Match (2001)
Chris Jericho Vs The Rock (2002)
Royal Rumble Match (2004)
Royal Rumble Match (2006)
John Cena Vs Umaga (2007)

Something like that .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BEEF


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RR from 2007 too, esp for that ending. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think it can have an effect. It doesn't take away from match quality if it's good but sometimes it takes away from some of the impact. For instance, with a hot crowd, it would've made the last 5 minutes of that SummerSlam match much more exciting as they traded signature moves after finishing the 'jocking for position' part of it. But since they were silent, it can make it feel different as if they were still just trading headlocks until the finish randomly popped up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Need to spread rep around, thanks a lot man I'm gonna watch it as soon as I get home from work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

According to DEM DIRTSHITZ, this is how the Elimination Chamber match of 2014 will look like:



Spoiler: Chamber



So there was this Haitch Haitch Haitch interview where he pointed out the supposed top stars of the company: Orton, Cena, Lesnar, Batista, Punk and Bryan. Yeah, do the maths there.



Not sure if serious, but if yes, then awesome. SAY SOMETHING STOOPID inside the Chamber :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> According to DEM DIRTSHITZ, this is how the Elimination Chamber match of 2014 will look like:
> 
> Not sure if serious, but if yes, then awesome. SAY SOMETHING STOOPID inside the Chamber :mark:


You're talking about the interview from a few weeks ago? That ain't a dirt-sheet! I wouldn't look into it as hint of anything. He just randomly name dropped the six most relevant active stars on the roster. One of them is surely going to win the Royal Rumble which interferes with this.

Would love an All-Star match in my favorite structure but not this year, I want ORTON VS BROCK dammit!!! :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It WAS a dirtsheet actually, but from a few weeks ago - forgot to check out the date, false alarm folks 

Though I do wonder what will the Chamber look like this year. I really don't know atm. It surely has to be for the WWE World Heavyweight Title if it does happen, otherwise how are they going to do it since the WM ME has to be WWE WHC Champ vs. winner? Unless they're pulling a Triple Threat, which is kinda stupid regardless of how good it ends up being.


----------



## G-Rated Is Coming (Jan 3, 2014)

Backlash 2003 must be the worst ppv of that year.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It'll probably feature Kofi Kingston~!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> It WAS a dirtsheet actually, but from a few weeks ago - forgot to check out the date, false alarm folks
> 
> Though I do wonder what will the Chamber look like this year. I really don't know atm. It surely has to be for the WWE World Heavyweight Title if it does happen, otherwise how are they going to do it since the WM ME has to be WWE WHC Champ vs. winner? Unless they're pulling a Triple Threat, which is kinda stupid regardless of how good it ends up being.


It's starting to feel like we have these speculations every day. 

As for the chamber itself, I'd assume Batista/Bryan/whoever wins it runs into trouble with the authority and are forced to defend their title shot inside the chamber with 5 others. Or they could do one for the IC title with midcarders participating, not really different to the WHC chamber match from 2012. This is why they need to do away with gimmick PPVs. Instead of giving it a reason to happen, it goes "Oh, it's February time, they must defend something inside the chamber".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As long as Brock isn't the last out of the chamber and lasts 3 minutes or something, yeah it'll be great seeing destroy people, but id rather see him in a match tbh. This supposed title match would be nice.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

G-Rated Is Coming said:


> Backlash 2003 must be the worst ppv of that year.


NWO is MUCH worse IMO


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DoubtGin said:


> What are the greatest matches that happened on a RR PPV? (including the Rumble itself I guess)
> 
> I want to get hyped.


Watch Razor Ramon v. Jeff Jarrett from 95.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> NWO is MUCH worse IMO


Armageddon was worse than both of them :


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Armageddon was worse than both of them :


Which one, 03? If so, no. Just off the strength of Orton/RVD and the triple threat being okay. Bad Blood is the worst PPV that year imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You're talking about the interview from a few weeks ago? That ain't a dirt-sheet! I wouldn't look into it as hint of anything. He just randomly name dropped the six most relevant active stars on the roster. One of them is surely going to win the Royal Rumble which interferes with this.
> 
> Would love an All-Star match in my favorite structure but not this year, I want ORTON VS BROCK dammit!!! :mark:




Just finished Benoit/Orton Raw 2004. Jesus that was awesome. Benoits control segment in the beginning is one of the better ones I've ever seen from him. Randy's selling was on point, although I did think the match slipped ever so slightly the few minutes he was in control. Still, I think this was better than Summerslam by a fair margin. Loved the pacing and the crowd was just so much better than Summerslam. A crowd can't ruin a match for me, and it certainly doesn't affect my opinion of it, but I think people are kidding themselves if they say crowd can't make a match easier and more enjoyable to watch. Don't believe me? Go watch Hogan/Rocky WM 18 on mute and tell me if it was anywhere near as enjoyable as with the sound up. 

I've still got the January 2006 mat wrestling classic as their best match, but I think Raw 2004 edges the NHB by the slimmest of margins to take the solid #2 spot. If pressed, I say ****-****1/4 seems fair.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Which one, 03? If so, no. Just off the strength of Orton/RVD and the triple threat being okay. Bad Blood is the worst PPV that year imo.


Yeah, Orton/RVD was very good and Triple Threat wasn't bad. The rest of the PPV kinda stunk. I kinda hated HBK/Batista from what I remember. Bad Blood had a little more to offer to me since I found the triple ME (Goldberg/Jericho, Flair/HBK and HHH/Nash HIAC) to be solid/good, shame the undercard bombed hard. Still, AM was even worse imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A fan of all the orton/benoit stuff


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Just finished Benoit/Orton Raw 2004. Jesus that was awesome. Benoits control segment in the beginning is one of the better ones I've ever seen from him. Randy's selling was on point, although I did think the match slipped ever so slightly the few minutes he was in control. Still, I think this was better than Summerslam by a fair margin. Loved the pacing and the crowd was just so much better than Summerslam. A crowd can't ruin a match for me, and it certainly doesn't affect my opinion of it, but I think people are kidding themselves if they say crowd can't make a match easier and more enjoyable to watch. Don't believe me? Go watch Hogan/Rocky WM 18 on mute and tell me if it was anywhere near as enjoyable as with the sound up.
> 
> I've still got the January 2006 mat wrestling classic as their best match, but I think Raw 2004 edges the NHB by the slimmest of margins to take the solid #2 spot. If pressed, I say ****-****1/4 seems fair.


Agree with everything said on the Raw match save for it ever going down at any point. I thought it was a rollecoaster ride from the moment Benoit attacks Orton from behind until that epic RKO in the end. The Best of 7 match has taken over for me as the best match after the recent rewatch. It is a fucking clinic. Just excellent mat wrestling from beginning to end that we've never really seen Orton do elsewhere. Specially loved when he countered an armbar into a body-scissor.

How I'd rank their singles matches:
1. Smackdown 13/1/06
2. SummerSlam (love it and the significance gains it points)
3. No Holds Barred
4. Raw
5. Smackdown 30/12/05
6. Smackdown 18/8/05
7. Smackdown 6/1/06

Only match that is not _great_ is the last one which was held back due to lack of time. They only got about 10 minutes so it didn't reach the greatness every other match has. Their chemistry was pretty much perfect.



ATF said:


> Yeah, Orton/RVD was very good and Triple Threat wasn't bad. The rest of the PPV kinda stunk. I kinda hated HBK/Batista from what I remember. Bad Blood had a little more to offer to me since I found the triple ME (Goldberg/Jericho, Flair/HBK and HHH/Nash HIAC) to be solid/good, shame the undercard bombed hard. Still, AM was even worse imo.


I enjoyed Batista/HBK for what it was. Don't remember anything else on the card other than Batista and Flair winning the tag titles. Oh and I thought the intergender match was kinda fun. Didn't care for any of the Bad Blood matches so I hold it as a way worse show.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy fook, just found out Terry Funk and Eddie Guerrero had a match, and it's (unsurprisingly) pretty great :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah that's likely one of the best five minute matches you'll find. Funk had a bunch of short squashys in 89 and that's the best one.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Eddie takes atleast three lunatic bumps in five minutes. It's fantastic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993-that rep you sent just became possibly my favorite gif ever. Lesson, as always, don't you ever even for a second consider fucking with Tonga/Haku/MENG. Even if your Duggan, one of the baddest man in the history of the biz.

Does anyone have a link to one of the late 80s Haku/Steamboat matches from WWE? I've heard amazing things but never actually seen one. I can only imagine the awesomeness. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah the GIF is pretty great, found it as someone's sig on a different forum and ---



Cactus Jack said:


> Does anyone have a link to one of the late 80s [holy shit]*Haku/Steamboat matches*[/holy shit] from WWE? I've heard amazing things but never actually seen one. I can only imagine the awesomeness. :mark:


---and, and wait the fucking WHAT!?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah the GIF is pretty great, found it as someone's sig on a different forum and ---
> 
> 
> 
> ---and, and wait the fucking WHAT!?



Yea man, I was watching the Ricky Steamboat documentary and he was talking about right before he left WWE to go to WCW, he said "I was having amazing matches with Haku every night". Implying there are multiple amazing matches between the two. I've been on the hunt ever since.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xetwn1_ricky-steamboat-vs-haku_sport

Can only find this one. Can't even find proof that any others exist.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

11 minutes of Haku and Steamboat? I'm in. Better than nothing. Good find sir.

If you look here http://www.wrestletapes.net/bestofhaku.html it lists 1 steamer match on Disc 9 4/22/91. I wonder if all the others were just house shows. If anyone else has seen the Steamboat documentary, he definitely says he was working with Haku every night and putting on classics. WHERE ARE THE TAPES RICKY???!!!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

4/22/91 is the one I posted (click on the 'about' on the dailymotion vid).  

Yeah, you gotta think they had a ton of matches at house shows. Hopefully there are some handhelds of these.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

April 13, 14, 18 x 2, 19, 20x2, 22
May 3, 8, 10, 12, 17, 18, 19, 30, 31
June 1, 2, 24
July 26, 27

All their house show matches in 91.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was searching for "Haku vs. The Dragon", but all I got were Spirited Away clips :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watched Royal Rumble 2001 last night. TOTALLY forgot Haku was in it. Knew there were a few other Haku marks on here. Dat hair! :mark: 

I actually really enjoyed the :angle2 :hhh2 match and the ladder IC title match is one of the best IC title matches ever IMHO. 

Watching Hell No/Ryback v The Shield right now. Fucking money. When the Shield break up Bryan and Rollins could have some classics.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FLUX said:


> Holy fook, just found out Terry Funk and Eddie Guerrero had a match, and it's (unsurprisingly) pretty great :mark:


Thanks for posting this. :ex:


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Watched most of the matches on my list, sans two. I REALLY liked that JBL/Cena match. Going to throw in HHH/Flair cage and LMS matches to. Thanks for the suggestions guys.
> 
> I have Taker vs Orton from WM, SSlam, and Armageddon. When was the other one?


No Mercy, the 2-1 Handicap Casket match. Its good fun


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> 11 minutes of Haku and Steamboat? I'm in. Better than nothing. Good find sir.
> 
> If you look here http://www.wrestletapes.net/bestofhaku.html it lists 1 steamer match on Disc 9 4/22/91. I wonder if all the others were just house shows. If anyone else has seen the Steamboat documentary, he definitely says he was working with Haku every night and putting on classics. WHERE ARE THE TAPES RICKY???!!!


How is wrestle tapes? I have wanted to order some old Savage stuff off of there but have never heard if the quality is good or not?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wrestletapes is massively overpriced. $10 a disc is nuts. Probably none of those sets are exclusive to that site either (I know for a fact a lot aren't, like some of the DVDVR or goodhelmet comps which can be found for sometimes literally over $100 cheaper by getting it from GH himself). Is coreystapes still running? I never actually bought anything from him but if something's on Wrestletapes for $100 you'll prob find it on Corey's for $20.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

looks like it is: http://www.coreystapes.com/

looks like they dont sell though


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

[hide]Yeah he does, he just can't admit to selling them in the open. [/hide]


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well that makes sense I guess

Match suggestion anyone? in the mood for some RUDE TBH


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

For every1 who has seen all of the Chris Benoit/Triple H matches.

How would you guys rank the Triple H/Chris Benoit (singles) matches? They also had great chemistry & they had tons of singles matches especially in 2005.

My favourite match (& I think that's their best match) was their No Mercy 2000 match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I might watch the No Mercy match tonight. Haven't seen it in ages. I have it as their best as well so I'm interested to see if it holds up.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> **** hidden content ****


Good chance I will be emailing that dude.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback just did one of the funniest things in wrestling history on Main Event.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Do tell.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think his new gimmick is that he has early onset dementia :ryback



Spoiler: THEBIGGUY



On Main Event, after each segment on the show, his music hit and he walked around the ring for reasons unknown. I was dying when he did it after the Bad News Barrett segment :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

:lmao

From nearly winning the world title to a comedy character. Poor fella.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1, did you ever end up saying that opinion you had that was so controversial that it'd be shocking?

Also, earlier I watched Miz/Cena at WM27. Wtf at the opening. That was the most laying it on thick EVER in wrestling. And it's weird because it seemed totally out of place for a match against the Miz. _Maybe_ you'd put something like that up if Cena was going against Brock Lesnar again after really being beaten badly and losing or something. Or maybe if he was going against someone really _evil_.

I'd heard about the choir before, but I was expecting them to break out into Cena's full theme _at least_. :lmao

That whole thing was just awe inspiring.

As for the match, the Miz was more athletic there than I had anticipated. One of his better performances that I've seen, though I still didn't really care about the match too much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh, and I have not and probably will never say my one unpopular opinion that everyone here will disagree with me on. It's not a big deal, except that one person in particular will never respect me again (not that any of us respect each other to begin with).

While we are once again bringing up the topic of unpopular opinions, one big one I have is that I do not understand how "stiff" is equated as being "good". I don't mind a stiff Regal/Hansen match, but when these guys did it, for the most part there seemed to be a purpose behind it. What I loathe completely though is when people wrestle stiffly for the sole purpose of working stiff. It is no different from a wrestler performing spots for the sake of performing spots, except I would actually argue that it's worse than being a spot monkey. It never made sense to me why it's better to be "stiff" than not to. Isn't the point of wrestling to create the illusion of a match without actually injuring someone? That's why I love Bret so much (among a million other reasons). Bret never needed to resort to working stiff to hide any deficiencies in his work like a lot of other wrestlers do. He still managed to make his brawls look "legitimate", yet he never actually physically damages a wrestler. Once again, a match that is only good because it is "stiff" to me is the same as saying that a match is only good because it has crazy backflips and ladder falls in it. In the end, those potato shots and hard smacks are just empty moves.

So yeah. Stiff ≠ good.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't think stiff is good.. esp in WWE, most times in WWE its either a mistake or a guy is reckless. Being stiff however can make a match better depending on the match.. Like Brock vs. Cena. That had some pretty stiff shots in it but it worked cause it made the match more intense and that was needed.

In a regular match, I wanna see a crisp, well worked match that isn't so stiff.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh, and I have not and probably will never say my one unpopular opinion that everyone here will disagree with me on. It's not a big deal, except that one person in particular will never respect me again (not that any of us respect each other to begin with).


YOU HAVE TO BE MAKING THIS UP. You've seen all of the nonsense bullshit I've said HOW HAVE YOU NOT COME OUT WITH IT!?



funnyfaces1 said:


> What I loathe completely though is when people wrestle stiffly for the sole purpose of working stiff. It is no different from a wrestler performing spots for the sake of performing spots, except I would actually argue that it's worse than being a spot monkey.


How is it worse than a spot monkey? A spot monkey (for lack of a better term) is a guy who does a bunch of spots and doesn't sell shit, which pretty much says 'hey look! Wrestling is fake!'. Stiffness is the exact opposite. Everyone knows wrestling is fake, but these guys who actually hit each other will make you believe what you are seeing is an actual fight. I can't see how you came to this conclusion. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> It never made sense to me why it's better to be "stiff" than not to. Isn't the point of wrestling to create the illusion of a match without actually injuring someone?


I'm not really encouraging guys to actually smack each other as hard as they can, but if they are than I will appreciate it. I think stiffness being the sign of a bad wrestler is much more nonsensical. It's part of why a Necro Butcher will have a bad rep despite being an excellent worker,



funnyfaces1 said:


> In the end, those potato shots and hard smacks are just empty moves.


How is that empty? That makes zero sense. Literally no sense whatsoever. None. I'm genuinely curious how the hell you can think that equals an empty move. You don;t have to answer or respond to any of this if you tell me what your super unpopular opinion is.


TELL ME.

Also I had Main event on and don't want to see that sack of shit four times in one show. Can they get rid of him already?


edit - I should mention a stiff move isn't always good in any context. That should be obvious but IDK I will mention it anyway, I don't make a whole lot of sense sometimes (including this edit, probablyz < the z was accidental but I will leave it in)


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I think in regards to stiffness, if someone is dishing it out and the person can take it (and vice versa) I see no problem. Regal and Finlay exchanging blows like that is a bonding experience for both guys. Whereas if you have a guy just potato somebody for the hell of it, it's pretty unprofessional (Bradshaw comes to mind in the early Acolyte days). Just doesn't really do any favours.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm pretty sure it's about the Undertaker.

No need to feel bad, though I understand not wanting to be bothered with the annoyance. People say crazy shit here on a daily basis, and they don't even blink an eye over it. :rrose3 Whatever you say can't be any crazier than anything I've read here.

The mind...it wanders...but I think I'm right about this one!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Ryback stuff was just...baffling. I laughed because the guy just looks like a fucking cartoon character. Hell he was pretty much Austin on roids tonight, with the sleeveless jacket and jeans. Maybe they are giving him the 'anti-social media' gimmick this month.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm with Yeah1993 on the stiffness debate.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love Undertaker. No bad opinion about him besides his 2009 WHC run which is probably his least liked title run anyways.

Maybe I just don't get it, but I'm usually not emotionally invested by a hard potato shot or a clothesline that legit knocks somebody out. What's the purpose of hitting someone hard unless if it's in a monster/underdog situation where the monster either needs to exert his dominance or the underdog needs to do as much as he can to hurt the monster? And isn't it better to be a wrestler that executes a move seamlessly without hurting someone? It's possible to do that with strikes, but guys like Kyle O'Reilly or Ken Shamrock don't put in that effort to do so. It almost feels like cheating. If two guys agree to work stiff, then of course the argument of "hurting someone" does not apply, but why does such a situation automatically equate to being good? Why is it permissible for Yokozuna and Hardcore Holly to act like dicks and legitimately endanger wrestlers? What's the talent/skill in hitting someone hard? Do you guys like a guy like Finlay *because* he works stiff? I think that's the beef I have. I don't see how someone can say that working stiff is a positive quality of a wrestler that can make them superior to a worker that errs on the side of caution.

EDIT: Wasn't part of the reason why Necro Butcher worked "stiff" was that he had very poor vision a la Stan Hansen? That seems pretty excusable and I personally think Necro is a pleasure to watch. Once again, it's either the Faarooq's of the world that just want to punish people or the Roderick Strong's and Low Ki's of the world that work stiff for the sake of working stiff that I question.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

99% of the time, the guys working stiff (Finlay, Regal, Haku, Race, Kawada et al) are legit tough bastards. Heavy hitters get a lot of value amongst die hard wrestling fans because they want to see people get their money's worth. These guys actually want to earn their paycheck without having to 'pussyfoot' around. This isn't a sign of male machismo either because their toughness is rarely exposed in a kayfabe light (for example Regal was seen as a pompous Brit rather than a tough guy), but rather just a love of getting stuck in. It's a truly admirable trait. Watching two gladiators go at it in an intense battle, knowing that afterwards they're going to put all differences aside and have a beer afterwards.

However yeah, seeing guys like Holly or Perry Saturn go ham on a jobber isn't appealing in the slightest.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Finlay being stiff is a positive, but it's not as if he's reliant on stiff offense. He's an amazing seller and will do everything at just the right time. I absolutely think a bunch of stiff moves with no cohesion wouldn't be fun. I don't see why offense that looks better wouldn't be a positive, though. A Finlay punch looks more credible than a Shawn Michaels chop. I don't want to see offense that doesn't look like it wouldn't faze a toddler on crutches because that looks friggin ridiculous. They don't have to actually hit each other to achieve that (e.g. Jerry Lawler doesn't connect but has the best punch ever), but if they go to that length to not make it look feathery and it's not actually injuring anybody then IDG the complaint. If stiffness isn't a positive to you then I can;t say much about that, but you seem to think it's a negative. 

How do you know a guy like Yoko is working 'like a dickhead' to harm another? You brought up in the same post that it was OK if a monster is trying to look dominant through stiffness. I totally think being stiff because you're a jerk is hard to find enjoyment in, but how often can you tell who's actually doing that?

Basically I like stiffness because it strays far away from the 'wrestling is fake' stuff and suspense disbelief. I know wrestling is fake, you don;t need to remind me by imitating Kofi Kingston double-palm takedown worst-thing-evers (seriously they are the worst thing ever, whatever they are).

ANSWER. THE. QUESTION. It can't be worse than saying stiffness is worse than spotmonkeyocity (????????? or it can't be worse than me writing 'spotmonkeyocity).


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Wade Barrett in the Royal Rumble :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't mind stiff working if it fits the character. People like JBL, Vader, Finlay, etc all were brawlers and it fit into it well. I think it's all about the style you're going for and if that wrestler is fit for it.

I think stiff can be equated to danger in some situations. People getting concussions, landing wrong, etc. My point is that I have no problem with a trusted wrestler that fits the gimmick working stiff. Now if they did something like Cena vs Sin Cara and they stiffed it the whole way through, I'd probably be pretty confused.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Working stiff imo depends mostly on the circumstances. As long as it plays into the story itself, I really don't care if its a mindless spotfest or a stiff-ass brawl. Though I do like my realism and grittiness within the likes of Finlay and Regal, if it doesn't play into a certain story and they do it for the simple sake of doing it then that can just fuck off my view. I'm a sucker for storytelling, that's why I watch wrestling in the 1st place: it's storytelling in a fun way. And if legit punching a guy's tooth off works any good into the context - and if the guy is willing, of course - then let it be. If not, go punch a tree somewhere else please.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I heard this story once of a jobber that made Yokozuna mad, so Yokozuna gave him a Banzai Drop without landing on his feet or holding the ropes like he usually does. That seems kinda harsh. But I guess I'll admit that I shouldn't make that assumption about Yokozuna, because he is not like a Hardcore Holly.

I love Finlay too, but I love him for more than just him hitting people really hard. I love how well he can make me want a babyface to prevail against him like in his matches against Matt Hardy and Kane. I love how he has no wasted motion in the ring. Maybe working stiff helped him tell these stories, but he was still capable of wrestling good matches without being overly stiff and there was rhyme and reason behind everything he did. I don't see it as a negative per se, but I do think some folks overrate the hell out of a match/wrestler because they're stiff. My viewpoint may not make sense to you Yeah (and I don't blame you), but since wrestling is fake, I don't think it's necessary for wrestlers to obsess over convincing me that it isn't by hurting each other. Shawn Michaels' chops and Randy Orton's punches don't bother me. Even if they clearly don't hurt, I don't feel like I need to be convinced that they do because I'm more invested in the story they're trying to tell.

Kofi Kingston's double chops do suck. That we can agree on. As does his leg drop.

EDIT: I retract my statement on Yokozuna. I just read something from Hogan about how Yokozuna was actually a safe guy to work with. Sorry Yeah. But that still doesn't excuse Kyle O'Reilly and Hardcore Holly.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah we all know wrestling is fake but isn't it a good thing when wrestlers do stuff that doesn't look fake? If a guy does something in the ring that makes me think 'wow that looked great, I would think that actually hurt him if I didn't know better' I'm gonna like that a million times more than something that looks obviously fake (what I like to call shitty). In the case of stiffness it doesn't look fake because it literally isn't fake but the point remains, it looks way better so I'm gonna like it more. Once people aren't getting hurt by it I'm always gonna be a fan of a nice stiff shot to the nose. This doesn't mean that not working stiff is a negative because it isn't, I'm just saying if we're gonna praise Lawler and Taker for having great punches why shouldn't we praise a stiff worker for having great strikes?

What are some matches you think are overrated because they're stiff?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I do not understand how "stiff" is equated as being "good".


Maybe I'm living under the rock, but I haven't seen much people calling matches good purely because of stiffness. Being stiff is mostly just a bonus. And with most stiff wrestler, it's just another character trait. So, no big deal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: I retract my statement on Yokozuna. I just read something from Hogan about how Yokozuna was actually a safe guy to work with. Sorry Yeah. But that still doesn't excuse Kyle O'Reilly and Hardcore Holly.


Holly's got a bad rep, so yeah, he was probably just an uncaring asshole. I've seen, like, one Kyle O'Reilly match but he's a massive 90s All Japan mark so he probably grabs inspiration from there. Aw man, some of the stiffness in 90s All Japan is nuts. Kawada breaks his forearm and wrist 8 minutes into a 25 minute match by delivering a forearm to Misawa's head.

This quote from Yuki Ishikawa on why he and Ikeda hit each other so hard is one of my favs: 



> "Because we are not hitting each other, we are hitting the fucking stupid people in the world who think that pro-wrestling is fake like a trained monkey show. They say that pro wrestling kicks are fake so it is not painful. etc. Once they see our fight, they have nothing to say. They watch our fight like a fool with their mouth open with surprise. So our violent fight is not only for our opponents but for the fucking people that make light of BATTLARTS. Our fight is anger towards people who make light of us."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not sure how Kyle O'Reilly got brought up in a "stiff" worker discussion.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is where I land on the "stiffness" debate.

For me, the best wrestling matches are ones that allow me to suspend my disbelief. However the wrestlers manage to accomplish that feat is up to them, but the fact remains, the more real the contest appears to me the more I will enjoy it. I'm NOT in favor of a guy going out there and just throwing potatoes at some unsuspecting sap for the sake of realism. It's more when two wrestlers have that respect for each other and don't mind throwing 75% real punches at each other. Obviously Finlay and Regal come to mind, but so do Jericho and Benoit when they wrestled each other. Stiffness does not make a match good, it's more just a bonus quality for me in a match. Yeah pointed out Lawler and that's a good point. You won't find a better looking punch than a Jerry Lawler punch, but by all accounts he wasn't really stiff at all. Terry Funk throws an equally good left hand, but he would just punch guys legitimately. You can also have stiff shots that look like absolute shit and appear not to hurt but really do. King Kong Bundy comes to mind in this category.


I guess I rambled, but my point is that I appreciate realism. However someone manages to accomplish it is up to them. As long as both parties are consenting and having a good match, stiffness is a good thing. But a guy like Bob Holly going out and intentionally stiffing some unsuspecting rookie to prove how tough he is is obviously a negative.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Also speaking of stiff, watched Slamboree 1998 today. Finlay vs Benoit. That's a candidate for one of WCW's strongest openers to a PPV. Holds up plenty. As if I had any fear that it wouldn't. Get right out of town.

I need to watch Duggan vs Meng from Jheri's rep. Uncensored 1995. Yeah, only that match. Sure as hell not that whole show again.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kyle O'Reilly has become the worst wrestler on the planet, and he was such a promising young rookie in Evolve and Future Shock. He favors and pushes this mat based, grappling style, but can't apply a fucking cross armbreaker to save his life. 

He is the dirt worst and shouldn't be allowed to watch Nigel McGuinness and Japanese wrestling anymore. Stupid fucking smark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Some of his work in PWG during 2013 was the only time I ever liked him. 90% of his work was shit. 10% was carried thanks to chemistry w/Adam Cole. Not exactly a promising talent when he was Davey 2.0.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Also speaking of stiff, watched Slamboree 1998 today. Finlay vs Benoit. That's a candidate for one of WCW's strongest openers to a PPV. Holds up plenty. As if I had any fear that it wouldn't. Get right out of town.
> 
> I need to watch Duggan vs Meng from Jheri's rep. Uncensored 1995. Yeah, only that match. Sure as hell not that whole show again.


That Slamboree match is number 3 on my "recently watched" YouTube playlist. Absolutely love it. Crowd was really into it too which is always nice. And I think this was the first instance of Benoit doing the suicide dive + headshot with a chair/trash can lid spot. Just bone crunching sounding.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone said DUGGAN VS MENG? Give link please.

Back to my 03 PPV Ramblings. Watching Backlash 03 now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Someone said DUGGAN VS MENG? Give link please.
> 
> Back to my 03 PPV Ramblings. Watching Backlash 03 now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> That Slamboree match is number 3 on my "recently watched" YouTube playlist. Absolutely love it. Crowd was really into it too which is always nice. And I think this was the first instance of Benoit doing the suicide dive + headshot with a chair/trash can lid spot. Just bone crunching sounding.


The spot showing up for the first time in that match is the moment most who watch it _(b/c for some reason this WCW PPV match alluded everyone for so long)_ that puts it on the map. Fans would go ape & assume Rumble 2001 was the origins. The fun in watching the catalog from all the workers you love. In this case, seen the majority of Benoit to basically be confident this was the first time the spot was done.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The spot showing up for the first time in that match is the moment most who watch it _(b/c for some reason this WCW PPV match alluded everyone for so long)_ that puts it on the map. Fans would go ape & assume Rumble 2001 was the origins. The fun in watching the catalog from all the workers you love. In this case, seen the majority of Benoit to basically be confident this was the first time the spot was done.



One mistake I've made a lot since joining here is asking "what's the best match so and so ever had with so and so", getting a response, watching said match, really liking it, then going back and watching the others. There really is something to be said for watching a series of matches between wrestlers in chronological order. With the true greats, they do brilliant call backs and switch ups and you just won't catch that unless you have the whole history. I'm kicking myself for watching the best McGuinness/Danielson match, the one where McGuinness turns, first before seeing all their others.


Speaking of that, Hayley you asked a few pages ago which Danielson/Morishima match I watched that I was so ape over. On my computer it's description just says "MMII". Any idea what the others are in the series? I'd love to see them.

God bless this thread by the way, there is just so much stuff I've been reccomended that is so great that I'd never have found on my own, none of my close friends watch anything other than popular WWE stuff. I can discuss Michaels and Undertaker and Austin with them, but if I try to bring up the brilliance of Kidman vs Tajiri, it's just completely lost on them. It's amazing how much my taste has changed since joining last summer. 9 months ago I probably would have told you Michaels vs Undertaker at WM 25 is the greatest match of all time. Now I'm MUCH more entertained by a 13 minute match between Benoit and Finlay on WCW TV.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> One mistake I've made a lot since joining here is asking "what's the best match so and so ever had with so and so", getting a response, watching said match, really liking it, then going back and watching the others. There really is something to be said for watching a series of matches between wrestlers in chronological order. With the true greats, they do brilliant call backs and switch ups and you just won't catch that unless you have the whole history. I'm kicking myself for watching the best McGuinness/Danielson match, the one where McGuinness turns, first before seeing all their others.
> 
> 
> *Speaking of that, Hayley you asked a few pages ago which Danielson/Morishima match I watched that I was so ape over. On my computer it's description just says "MMII". Any idea what the others are in the series? I'd love to see them.*
> ...


*MMII (Manhattan Mayhem II) *was their first match and that's the one where Danielson broke his orbital bone or whatever the injury was.
*ROH Man Up * is the rematch between the two, I believe Danielson sports an eye patch in this one. Probably the most important match in terms of telling the story. I could say why but I'd be spoiling it for you.
They then have two more matches, the first at *Glory By Honor V Night II *which is just as important for the feud, and then *Rising Above .

*I then believe they don't have a match until *Final Battle 2008 (December)* which is the blowoff to the feud.The only two REAL matches are MMII and Final Battle 2008, the other three are more storyline continuations/advancers than matches (but still worth checking out because they're still great, naturally), but I found Final Battle a lot more enjoyable once I watched the Man up, GBH and Rising Above matches beforehand.

I'd personally have MMII > Final Battle but I know many, if not most, would have it the opposite.

2007-2008 ROH is just complete and utter :moyes1 for me. Probably my favourite period for any promotion. Downloading the 2007 and 2008 ROH events packs and saving them on my hard drive is possibly the best thing I've ever done.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Final Battle 2008 match is just so intense right from the start.. Great blowoff match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOAT three minute match in WWF/WWE history perhaps?

Pimped the shit out of this before, and I'm gonna continue to do it. Both Tajiri & Henry are :mark: :mark: :mark: in this. Take three minutes and fifteen seconds out of your day to watch this slice of wrestling heaven. Better than the NOC match with Orton (which I actually LOVE, HenryDAGAWD), better than ALOT of Henry's 2011-2012 stuff actually, probably a top 5-10 match of his.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> One mistake I've made a lot since joining here is asking "what's the best match so and so ever had with so and so", getting a response, watching said match, really liking it, then going back and watching the others. There really is something to be said for watching a series of matches between wrestlers in chronological order. With the true greats, they do brilliant call backs and switch ups and you just won't catch that unless you have the whole history. I'm kicking myself for watching the best McGuinness/Danielson match, the one where McGuinness turns, first before seeing all their others.
> 
> 
> Speaking of that, Hayley you asked a few pages ago which Danielson/Morishima match I watched that I was so ape over. On my computer it's description just says "MMII". Any idea what the others are in the series? I'd love to see them.
> ...


Those are the little things that tip the scales from the good workers to the great ones. Being so seamless and smart are ripples of talent that you can't teach. Just got in ya to put you above the rest. Dean Malenko may be "smoother" than CM Punk when ranking up careers, but Punk is so damn smart - for the example I'm using here - he crushes things in terms of all around quality. Thought that was a good one too b/c I'm a Dean fan, but spoken about his brand of matches out there where it's more machine than man. Punk has always been a brilliant all around guy when it comes to "working", so yeah. My elaboration explained. I have a manifesto coming out.

FLUX got to all the details before could, but yeah, Manhattan Mayhem II was the show. And it was their first match so you got the correct order started there. Too bad about jumping out of place w/Danielson vs Nigel, but you adored the Anniversary match all the same. Go back, watch all the rest & give the Anniversary match another watch and I'm 100% certain it'll blow you away all over again.

btw, b/c it was massively undersold, best match Danielson vs Morishima had _(imo..)_ was their match from Man Up. Utter glory. Brilliance. Making a story out of something that came from their Manhattan Mayhem II match. Jesus christ @ how great it is. All of them rule. Much more than feud advancers, I'd say. Some aren't too long, but that's b/c they didn't need to be. The war was on. The Final Battle '08 blowoff is probably their weakest, but still better than the average affair. That one relied a bit more on some select 'spots' so it dwindled down from what originally made their program so heated.

I like this thread when the melting pot of rasslin' goes down. All promotions. Just keep the conversations flowing. That's the fun I have. Especially when the other "general discussion threads" in the TNA/Other Wrestling sections don't have a fraction of the activity this thread does.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

That stupid thread saying Tajiri wasn't that good.. smh. Henry was good in that 3 min match but without a good seller to take the bumps, the match is nothing. Real fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the date of this match:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Who said Tajiri want good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bret Hart vs Sting series

Judging by the fact it never got started, it appears to be 10/5/98.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Who said Tajiri want good?


There was a thread last week about Japanese wrestlers in WWE and this poster was like "Tajiri wasn't that good" I was like What??


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hope he's a really big KENTA fan.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> btw, b/c it was massively undersold, best match Danielson vs Morishima had (imo..) was their match from Man Up. Utter glory. Brilliance. Making a story out of something that came from their Manhattan Mayhem II match. Jesus christ @ how great it is. All of them rule. Much more than feud advancers, I'd say. Some aren't too long, but that's b/c they didn't need to be. The war was on. The Final Battle '08 blowoff is probably their weakest, but still better than the average affair. That one relied a bit more on some select 'spots' so it dwindled down from what originally made their program so heated.


Agree with all of this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Bret Hart vs Sting series
> 
> Judging by the fact it never got started, it appears to be 10/5/98.


Thanks mate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Agree with all of this.


(Y)



Clint Eastwood said:


> Thanks mate.


Bookmark Cagematch.net

It's honestly the best wrestling results site online today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Those are the little things that tip the scales from the good workers to the great ones. Being so seamless and smart are ripples of talent that you can't teach. Just got in ya to put you above the rest. Dean Malenko may be "smoother" than CM Punk when ranking up careers, but Punk is so damn smart - for the example I'm using here - he crushes things in terms of all around quality. Thought that was a good one too b/c I'm a Dean fan, but spoken about his brand of matches out there where it's more machine than man. Punk has always been a brilliant all around guy when it comes to "working", so yeah. My elaboration explained. I have a manifesto coming out.
> 
> FLUX got to all the details before could, but yeah, Manhattan Mayhem II was the show. And it was their first match so you got the correct order started there. Too bad about jumping out of place w/Danielson vs Nigel, but you adored the Anniversary match all the same. Go back, watch all the rest & give the Anniversary match another watch and I'm 100% certain it'll blow you away all over again.
> 
> ...



Without question I'm going back and watching the Danielson/McGuinness ROH series from beginning to end. I'm just gonna wait another week or so so I can forget more about the final match so when I watch it again it's all new to me. I don't know how some of you guys do it, I pay damn close attention to all the details in the really GREAT matches I watch, but I'll be fucked if I can remember all the specifics about matches weeks after I watch them. Granted, I pretty much have my favorites like Eddie/Rey SD and Benoit/Finlay JD memorized, but matches I've seen once or twice get completely lost to me within a week or two. This is great because things stay fresh, but it sucks when I'm trying to discuss specifics about a match I haven't seen recently it's quite annoying.

I like that you mentioned Punk when talking about the difference between really good and GREAT workers. Punk isn't perfect by any means, he can also be sloppy at times, but I'll be damned if there isn't a better detail guy in the WWE right now. That's what makes him great, he does all the little things that take a match to the next level. I like Malenko a lot too, he's outright BETTER as a technical wrestler than CM Punk is, but Punks best matches are worlds better than Malenkos. The reason? Details. Facial expression. Selling. Knowing the difference between working as an underneath face or a chickenshit heel. Punk nails all those things and as a result his big matches are the best in the WWE right now, even ahead of Danielson who is probably the best wrestler in the world since Benoit passed. Cesaro deserves mention too but I don't want to get too sidetracked. Punk just had 2 damn near perfect matches in 2013, one as a chickenshit heel and the other as the under dog baby face looking for revenge, and he freaking NAILED it both times. What other active wrestler right now could have done it so superbly? Few if any. If he really is retiring in the next year or two, he will be sorely missed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Profightdb is also pretty good. But I assume Cagematch also includes house shows, right? Plus the former does lack a few things because I was looking through some stuff and they didn't have Undertaker vs Batista inside the steel cage listed among matches they've had which was a strange omission.

Watched Taker vs Warrior body bag match yesterday and it was comical to see Taker get up from two back to back piledrivers. Pretty simple match and a good way to kill ten minutes but nothing more than that. Gonna watch Orton/Cena from NWO again to prepare for the Rumble and since Benoit/Finlay from Slamboree is one of their matches I have yet to see, will get that off the list as well. I'm 100% it's gonna rule the world.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Profightdb is also pretty good. But I assume Cagematch also includes house shows, right? Plus the former does lack a few things because I was looking through some stuff and they didn't have Undertaker vs Batista inside the steel cage listed among matches they've had which was a strange omission.
> 
> Watched Taker vs Warrior body bag match yesterday and it was comical to see Taker get up from two back to back piledrivers. Pretty simple match and a good way to kill ten minutes but nothing more than that. Gonna watch Orton/Cena from NWO again to prepare for the Rumble and since Benoit/Finlay from Slamboree is one of their matches I have yet to see, will get that off the list as well. I'm 100% it's gonna rule the world.




It really does. Doesn't get to the levels of Judgement Day or anything, but still absolute brilliance every step of the way.

Which reminds me, I really need to make it a point to watch Orton/Cena NWO 2008 sooner rather than later. I'm not doubting everyone who says how great it is, but it just seems so unappealing on paper it's hard to click "play" when I know I'm in for 30+ minutes of Orton/Cena. Fuck it, I'll do it when I get home. I sat through Batista/Cena LMS and absolutely loved it, and that match on paper is even more unappealing.

Edit- Bored and decided to make my dream WM 30 card:

Main Events:

Cena vs The Undertaker for the Streak
Daniel Bryan vs Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship
CM Punk vs Triple H
Batista vs Randy Orton

Mid Card:

The Shield vs The Wyatt's
Mark Henry vs Christian
The Real Americans vs Rey Mysterio and Dolph Ziggler for the tag team championship

Opening Match

Cody Rhodes vs Goldust for the I.C Title (callback to Bret/Owen opening Wm10)

Done. Best possible card for this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's not 30 minutes, it's actually only around 15 and once it gets going after the first couple of minutes, you'll be really into it. Just a brilliant match where everything both guys do click perfectly. That match is always my evidence that they _do_ have chemistry even though I'm a fan of quite a few matches they've had unlike most.

You mentioned memorizing matches which makes me ask: does anyone here actually have any matches almost fully memorized from beginning to the finish? I don't have many of those but Orton/Benoit from SummerSlam, Orton/Foley and the WM20 triple threat are always familiar for me with every move. I can call most of them before they happen and still love them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Cena NWO 08 is so good because it's NOTHING like any of their other matches. They don't click at all any other time, but here they do something different and it pays off BIG TIME.

Continuing with Backlash 03. Up to Cena Vs LESNAR.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> I like that you mentioned Punk when talking about the difference between really good and GREAT workers. Punk isn't perfect by any means, he can also be sloppy at times, but I'll be damned if there isn't a better detail guy in the WWE right now. That's what makes him great, he does all the little things that take a match to the next level. I like Malenko a lot too, he's outright BETTER as a technical wrestler than CM Punk is, but Punks best matches are worlds better than Malenkos. The reason? Details. Facial expression. Selling. Knowing the difference between working as an underneath face or a chickenshit heel. Punk nails all those things and as a result his big matches are the best in the WWE right now, even ahead of Danielson who is probably the best wrestler in the world since Benoit passed. Cesaro deserves mention too but I don't want to get too sidetracked. Punk just had 2 damn near perfect matches in 2013, one as a chickenshit heel and the other as the under dog baby face looking for revenge, and he freaking NAILED it both times. What other active wrestler right now could have done it so superbly? Few if any. If he really is retiring in the next year or two, he will be sorely missed.


There's a thread in the Raw section talking about how Punk is getting sloppy, and this is what I posted.



> Punk has always been sloppy in the ring, but it just adds to his charm, IMO. Not everything needs to be perfect every time. The difference between Punk being sloppy and everyone else being sloppy is that Punk manages to make his sloppiness look rugged or like a struggle, rather than a botch or mistake.


I don't think that shows what I mean. But the difference between Ryback (for example) being sloppy and CM Punk being sloppy is that Punk has the talent and uncanny ability to still make his sloppiness look effective and not seem botchy. As good as Malenko and Tyson Kidd may be at wrestling and executing moves, the perfection can get repetitive and sometimes boring and somewhat monotonous. Is every punch, kick, takedown, reversal and submission in the UFC performed to perfection every time? No, yet the punch with the least amount of techniqaue thrown in to it can be the knockout blow. Same with your average street fight. Same applies to boxing or any form of combat sport. Hell, any type of sport.

Whilst a Dean Malenko clinic can be fun, it can get boring. Sometimes mistakes and sloppiness is needed in order to carry on suspending your disbelief, it's just the GREAT workers can make sloppiness still seem effective, whereas terrible-average workers make it seem like a mistake or a botch.

I thought this was somewhat relevant


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Bryan WM XXVIII


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> It's not 30 minutes, it's actually only around 15 and once it gets going after the first couple of minutes, you'll be really into it. Just a brilliant match where everything both guys do click perfectly. That match is always my evidence that they _do_ have chemistry even though I'm a fan of quite a few matches they've had unlike most.
> 
> You mentioned memorizing matches which makes me ask: does anyone here actually have any matches almost fully memorized from beginning to the finish? I don't have many of those but Orton/Benoit from SummerSlam, Orton/Foley and the WM20 triple threat are always familiar for me with every move. I can call most of them before they happen and still love them.




Matches I have almost completely memorized:

Foley/Orton Backlash
Eddie/Rey Smackdown
Taker/Foley Hell in a Cell
Benoit/Finlay JD
Eddie/Rey HH97'
Foley/Michaels Mindgames
Eddie/Benoit Vengeance 2003
Bret/Austin WM13
Taker/Michaels HiaC


Maybe more, but those I can sure fire call spot by spot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think he meant the entire chapter. Doesn't care to see those two take up that much time. Don't blame him. Can understand how that's a loss in appeal in 2014. Match is awesome, however. Def worth the watch.



> Without question I'm going back and watching the Danielson/McGuinness ROH series from beginning to end. I'm just gonna wait another week or so so I can forget more about the final match so when I watch it again it's all new to me. I don't know how some of you guys do it, I pay damn close attention to all the details in the really GREAT matches I watch, but I'll be fucked if I can remember all the specifics about matches weeks after I watch them. Granted, I pretty much have my favorites like Eddie/Rey SD and Benoit/Finlay JD memorized, but matches I've seen once or twice get completely lost to me within a week or two. This is great because things stay fresh, but it sucks when I'm trying to discuss specifics about a match I haven't seen recently it's quite annoying.


I'm a lot better at remembering when I don't try to think about it. Which is why I hate doing reviews on matches. I'm no good. Always miss the real reasons why I dug a match & only end up talking about the finish. It's a pet peeve. _(however I can rant big time on why I hate matches w/o forgetting a single detail. probably b/c it's so offensive I'm wanting to not forget.)_ Whereas the rest of my memory just kind of flows for stuff like details and timing etc. I'm sure it could be the same for plenty of other fans out there too. Watch a match enough and it'll leave its mark in your memory. Simple science to it all.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus/Bryan WM XXVIII


lol'ed.

for a real answer. i have HBK/Taker from WM 25 and Austin/Bret WM 17 pretty damn close to memorized. KENTA/Danielson from ROH Glory By Honor 5 Night 2 as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great response FLUX, I made a post about Punk in that thread too, only to get this guy asking me if I ever watched a Punk match before :lol.

Pretty much every HHH match from Summerslam 2004 to the DX reunion I can recite off the top of my head, especially the PPV bouts. 

Same goes with lots of BROCK & PUNK matches too, & some Henry, Cena, stuff like that .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FLUX said:


> There's a thread in the Raw section talking about how Punk is getting sloppy, and this is what I posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bolded part is one I firmly agree w/. Reminds me of (one) reason why I loved the Backlund vs Patera Texas Death Match. Bob's brawling wasn't pretty. It's a brawl, it shouldn't be. His wild punches as he was scrapping & clawing in anger looked so damn radical. Added to the match WAY more than if he was more...I suppose, "controlled" w/his fury. It doesn't need to look pretty. It just needs to look raw & real. This point also feels like a neat segway back into that Stiff over/= good conversation. Wrestling isn't fake; it's predetermined. The work put in-between the ropes shouldn't be phony.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Orton/Cena NWO 08 is so good because it's NOTHING like any of their other matches. They don't click at all any other time, but here they do something different and it pays off BIG TIME.
> 
> Continuing with Backlash 03. Up to Cena Vs LESNAR.


I like the ironman, I Quit and SummerSlam 07 too but NWO is on another level.

Fast forward through Cena's two minute body-scissor part and you'll enjoy the match better that way.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus/Bryan WM XXVIII


NOTHING YOU SAY MATTERS UNTIL YOU REVEAL YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION! 



Cactus Jack said:


> Bret/Austin WM13


Funny you mention that because I rewatched it for the first time in two years the other day and I didn't recall the part when they go through the crowd AT ALL. A five star classic for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, gosh. It's crazy how well I know Austin vs Hart Submission match too. Seared. Guess I've watched it more times than I've realized. Tempted to watch it now. Probably so mega on it b/c it's the last Bret Hart singles match I liked in his career.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought you liked Bret/DDP


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll know once I get there again. Off the top of my head, yeah, the memory is positive. But so was Hart vs Sting. And that's now tainted b/c it's hot garbage.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Rey/Eddie at Halloween havoc 97. All the spots I call before hand I've seen it so many times..

Same with Warrior/Hogan WM 6 but that's partially cause its the first match I remember.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their PPV stuff sucked, but they had a nice trio of Nitro matches. I'm guessing you also didn't like Bret/Malenko as well...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was Bret/Finlay any good? I'm drawing a blank on the match completely.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably not. Bret was one of the worst guys to watch from 1997 - 1999.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah but... Finlay.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah...but Undertaker, too.

Didn't excuse those from being piles of shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I keep forgetting you don't like Bret/Taker from Summerslam. 

Bret basically stopped GIVING A FUCK once he got to WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He wasn't as GOD AWFUL as Hennig was, but he was pretty darn close. His soul was filled w/rage thanks to Vince and he shut down. Became a robot. His matches were such a struggle to get through.

I still stand it started in 1997, but certainly carried over to a flop of a WCW career.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah...but Undertaker, too.
> 
> Didn't excuse those from being piles of shit.


Yeah but... those Undertaker matches are awesome so STFU.

I just struggle to believe that FINLAY wouldn't be able to have a watchable match at the very least out of Bret, even in WCW 98 "I'm literally only here for the money now because I'm a stubborn bastard and didn't want to do business so I got screwed" mode.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WCW was the home of flopped careers. Thank goodness for DDP. Only main eventer that was good. Hennig was so bad that he only had one decent match with Page. ONE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Yeah but... those Undertaker matches are awesome so STFU.
> 
> I just struggle to believe that FINLAY wouldn't be able to have a watchable match at the very least out of Bret, even in WCW 98 "I'm literally only here for the money now because I'm a stubborn bastard and didn't want to do business so I got screwed" mode.


Nah...

I have as much faith in Finlay as you do 99% of the time. Screw that: 100%. But I have to trust the curve of Bret in WCW to go on the outs and figure garbage. Where is the link for this? We should just watch right now so we have our answer.



funnyfaces1 said:


> WCW was the home of flopped careers. Thank goodness for DDP. Only main eventer that was good. Hennig was so bad that he only had one decent match with Page. ONE.


All stunk.

Only Hennig match I'm convinced is any form of good is the No DQ match vs Flair @ World War 3 '97. Probably Goldberg's squash at BATB '98. But that's nothing contributed towards Hennig.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it hurts my heart, henning didnt do much in WCW,love him


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7i5qe_bret-hart-vs-fit-finlay_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I was correct. Not good at all. Bless Finlay for actually trying in the first few minutes. Bret tanks in that whole thing, jesus.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, even for a 3 minute match Bret can't manage to do something good with Finlay .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive only seen one Bret wcw match, the one w/ :flair at souled out, use to be pretty high on it, but on last watch it went down a bit. Both were CLEARLY going through the motions


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need to see a good Finlay match now. Easy way to do that is to watch the match that wasn't vs Bret. 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm probably in the minority but I liked 2 Bret matches in WCW, the one he had with Sting (was it Halloween Havoc? It's the one where Sting is rocking the Wolfpac red face paint and Bret's a heel, it's on this Best Stars of the 90s set I have) and the Owen tribute match with Benoit. Now, I'm not Gaga over either, but they aren't BAD, like the rest of the stuff he did there. The Owen tribute could and should have been so much better too, it just seemed a bit emotionless at times, which is strange considering I know both of those guys had to be pretty damn emotional. Both are mid 3-star range in my book. The rest of Bret's work there ranges from forgettable to god awful.

Edit-Hayley, go watch Finlay/Henry from ECW, awesome stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always liked the Bret/Hennig match from... some time in 98 I think. Fuck knows what I'd think to it now though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished Orton/Cena III (as in No Way Out) and it's still absolutely awesome. Double countout spot rules and the crowd popping for the finish is as hilarious every time. If they put on something this good at the Royal Rumble, I'll be thrilled.



King Cal said:


> Yeah, even for a 3 minute match Bret can't manage to do something good with Finlay .


:lmao

And btw, have you stopped doing the 2004 rips? Just asking because it's been a while since the last one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Arent you the guy that has both the perfect/hart ppv matches in wwe at ***** ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> I always liked the Bret/Hennig match from... some time in 98 I think. Fuck knows what I'd think to it now though.


OMG NO.

Watch it and revel at the horrendous nature of that beast. Got to be Bret's worst of the bunch in WCW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stopped? No. Lazy? Absolutely . I've been wanting to watch Benoit/Flair for about a week now so I'll dig that show out and watch it and use my new fangled screen recorder to rip it since the disc won't let me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS25 said:


> Arent you the guy that has both the perfect/hart ppv matches in wwe at ***** ?


Me? Yes .



HayleySabin said:


> OMG NO.
> 
> Watch it and revel at the horrendous nature of that beast. Got to be Bret's worst of the bunch in WCW.


I don't wanna watch it again now .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching that duggan/haku match in fill from Yeah rep :lol

I thought I was special and only got it :shocked::cuss:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't think I've seen a single Bret wcw match 

Guess I'll stay away :lol


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret/Benoit is still a given IMO.

There was a Bret/Booker match that was decent too, forgot which one, could have been BATB.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2003*

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBERG. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBER. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.


*Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

I saw someone say this was the WORST PPV of 2003 a couple of days ago. Wondering if I'll think the same, but this being the opener pretty much ensures ONE really good match on the show which could prevent it from being THE worst. We'll see. Besides, I might end up thinking this sucks . Chavo IS in the match after all.

:lmao at Team Angle walking around with a picture of Angle to place in their corner while Angle is out with a BROKEN FREAKIN NECK.

:lmao at Tazz literally saying that being smart won't help Hass in the ring AT ALL.

:lmao at Chavo ONLY getting chants because Eddie basically forces the crowd to chant for him . Then the crowd BOO when Eddie tags him in :lmao.

:lmao BORING chants for Chavo :lmao. Backlash 03 crowd might be my favouritist evaz!!!

Eddie senses that they are losing the fans so he comes in and smashes Shelton in the face a few times with a forearm. CHANT BORING TO THAT YOU FUCKS. 

Some nice LIE CHEAT AND STEAL stuff from Los Guerreros. Fans love it. Eddie rules.

Nice to see the referee doing the old stupid decisions crap FOR the babyfaces in the match. Eddie and Chavo don't make real tags, instead just clap their own hands behind the ref's back, and the ref allows it because the fans cheer and pretend like they did tag. More babyfaces need to cheat nowadays. Freshens things up and stops the whole BLACK AND WHITE crap between heels and faces. Give us some shades of grey. So long as it isn't 50 8*D.

Team Angle resort to stealing the Guerrero's CHEATING stuff :mark:. Eddie FIP :mark:. Good job it was Eddie doing it because I can't get behind Chavo. I end up cheering for the other team who are working him over .

Oh man Eddie gets SO FUCKING CLOSE on a number of occasions to getting a tag. I mean WOW. Those were some AWESOME cut offs. 

Then the ACTUAL tag is fucking awesome too. Looks more like a flap jack to Eddie, who just so happens to fly into Chavo :lmao.

Despite being fairly new, Team Angle did a pretty damn good job working over Eddie. A couple of moments where they'd try and sit in a hold but it seemed Eddie wasn't having any of it and kept them on the move lol.

POWERBOMB TO CHAVO. Awesome.

Chavo is utterly useless after the hot tag, so Eddie comes in TWICE illegally and hits some big moves on Hass for Chavo to just cover and get the win. Chavo fails at that :lmao. Then Chavo gets screwed and pinned. Team Angle wins.

Yeah this fucking rules. I gotta watch those SD matches between them that are (or one of them at least) even better. I always liked them but never got the "truly awesome MOTYC" feeling from them. But if any of them are legit better than this then... :mark:.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Test backstage coming on to Torrie even though he's with Stacy. Calls her a tease. Forces himself on her. Then Sable shows up and... follows her? I'm not sure. LOL.


*Rikishi Vs Sean O'Haire*

ROWDY RODDY PIPER :mark:.

Remember when O'Haire was the next big thing? LOL. That lasted all of about a month . Which is a shame because I always liked him, and his character was interesting too.

Rikishi's mum is suffering from... AN ILLNESS. Way to be specific Cole. For all I know she could have the shits. 

Wasn't expecting much from this, and I ended up being somewhat surprised. Aside from O'Haire using a neck crank submission thingy that looked like shit, this had a ton of fun exchanges and unique spots. DOUBLE SUPERKICK. Both men are down!

O'Haire LAUNCHING Rikishi out of the corner onto his arse to avoid a stink face was awesome. Nice finisher from O'Haire too which looked impressive on a guy the size of the Kish.

PIPER IS BLEEDING~! He got decked with a coconut. REVENGE FOR SNUKA 20 YEARS LATER LOL.

Nothing special, but hell, I'm glad I didn't skip it and throw a big NO at it .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Sable. Stacy. Fap. Sable is trying to create tension between Stacy and Torrie. Tells Stacy that Torrie kissed Test and stuff. All of this would somehow lead to Sable and Torrie having a sort of lesbian friendship. Yeah. Fap.

RVD and Kane. RVD is terrible, dude. Not cool. His WWE promos are so cheesy and shit. Kane doesn't help things either.


*Kane & RVD Vs The Dudley Boys - Special Referee Chief Morley - World Tag Team Championship Match*

WE MISS REGAL sign .

Both teams are faces, but Morley (formally Val Venis) hates RVD and Kane and wants the tag belts off them, and apparently he's fine with THOSE DAMN DUDLEYS as champs...

BUBBA. RAY. DUDLEY. Best version of mocking RVD's thumbs crap ever .

Love how RVD does all his spinny kicky fancy shit only for Bubba to constantly crash into his face with a clothesline :mark:. 

Match picks up a bit when Kane tags in and starts destroying people, then starts a little FIP segment but is too pick to keep down and tags RVD in.

And then the match kinda gets dull. I can't get behind RVD, and honestly the Dudley Boys ain't doing much to make their control segment that interesting either. HUGE difference between this and the SD tag titles match.

Very cold tag to Kane. Then RVD is back in seconds later like nothing happened.

EPIC neckbreaker from Devon to RVD from the ropes.

LOW BLOW TO KANE BY MORLEY. Then he accidentally levels Bubba with a clothesline. Devon kills him.

LANCE STORM. Takes out Devon, then gets a Bubba Bomb lol. 3-D to Morley. Fuck me this is a clusterfuck finish .

Chokeslam to Bubba, followed by a 5 Star, then a new referee shows up to count the 3. LOL.

Eh, this wasn't that good. Boring mostly, with a clusterfuck finish.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


FAP FIGHT! I MEAN CAT FIGHT. STACY AND TORRIE GOING AT IT. FAP.


*Jazz Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship Match*

:lmao like I'm gonna sit through this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


NWO REUNION~! And by that I mean HBK, Booker T and Kevin Nash :lmao. Oh shit, I forget what the Raw main event is on this show. 6 man tag.


*The Big Show Vs Rey Mysterio*

Oooooo this could be a TON of fun. TON. FUN. OF.

Rey is playing MIND GAMES with Show right from the start, running out of the ring and teasing getting back in, then when Show comes out after him, Mysterio gets back in the ring and dropkicks Show in the face :lmao. Show is PISSED OFF and kicks the steel steps.

And then Show finally gets his hands on Rey and the gaint is in control. Always love the spot where Show grabs a guy by the HEAD and lifts them up onto the apron :mark:. Was even better here when Rey went all the way up to the second rope instead of just the apron :mark:.

CHOP TO THE BACK~! Rey is in serious trouble. So what does he do? CHEAT!! Steel chair to the skull behind the referee's back!!! Senton off the ropes, but that still doesn't get the job done.

619 TO SHOW'S GUT! THEN TO HIS BUTT! THEN TO THE FACE!!! WEST COAST POP... NAH. Show catches him by the throat, Chokeslams him to fucking hell and gets the win.

Short but ever so sweeeeeeeet. Tons of fun. Aftermath with Show swinging Rey while on a fucking STRETCHER BOARD is incredible.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


STACY AND TORRIE FAP FAP are still fighting. Stacy gets pushed into something and then a box falls off the top onto her head and Torrie looks HORRIFIED :lmao. Not sure it was supposed to fall on her :lmao. Steiner shows up to help Stacy then Test shows up to scream at things.


*Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena - WWE Championship Match*

THIS IS JAIL BROCK, WE INMATES, AND YOU JUST DROPPED THE SOAP!

Damn, Cena beat EDDIE GUERRERO, UNDERTAKER AND BENOIT in the title tournament to get this match. Don't remember any of the matches lol.

Cena tries to gain the upper hand from the get go, but Lesnar just shrugs him off and MAULS HIM. :mark:

Brock almost looks like a HEEL for the first 5 or so minutes with the way he's beating the fuck out of Cena, shoving the title in his face and mocking him lol.

:lmao Brock goes BACK FIRST into the steel steps... and gets busted open above his eye :lmao. SUPER CENA CAN DO ANYTHING~!

Sadly, SUPER CENA can't do EVERYTHING. He can barely keep me interested as he works over Lesnar. Some stuff is ok, I like him really targeting the open wound of Lesnar, but as fun as that can be, he sucks the life out of stuff by applying a rest hold.

Lesnar's comeback is :mark: at least.

:lmao Cena botches a clothesline so bad it forces Tazz to stutter.

Cena tries to cheat a few times, but in the end gets an F-5 and this match gives us the result that their Extreme Rules match should have gotten. LESNAR WINS.

Match is decent at best. Lesnar is great, but fuck, Cena is dull as shit 90% of the time. He really brings the match down.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash & Booker T Vs Triple H, Ric Flair & Chris Jericho*

NWO Vs Evolution + Jericho. LOL. 

I remember :mark: like FUCK back in 03 when Nash returned. BIG DADDY COOL was always a favourite of mine.

Over the years I've seen a bunch of big main event tag matches that throw in some of the big stars at the time, and man oh man have I LOVED them. Undertaker & Batista Vs Cena & HBK from No Way Out 07 is just tremendous for starters. And don't even get me started on some from WCW in 92. DANGEROUS ALLIANCE VS WCW. Oh god :mark:. So on PAPER this one looks like it could be a ton of fun. HBK, OLD MAN FLAIR, Jericho kinda. Then the shitty guys like HHH, Nash and Booker can keep their shit to a minimum by not being in the match too long and sticking to JUST the few things they can do half decently.

However, I watched this a few years ago expecting it to be fun and maybe matching up to some of those other big tags. Sadly I found that it sucked . Maybe I was missing something before. Maybe THIS is the watch where I love it. Maybe Lita will come and blow me.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? What did they do to Booker's theme music? WHY? Isn't it a fucking WWE OWNED THEME? Why the FUCK did they dub some really shitty generic version over it? Not that his theme is great to begin with but fuck me. This is just terrible.

HHH teases starting the match with Nash, but pussies out. So instead we get HBK Vs Jericho who are sort of continuing their WM XIX feud... but it never really goes anywhere like I thought it would. They have a pretty great match on Raw in like, JULY, but aside from that HBK moves on to a small feud with Flair, and Jericho... does something for a month or so then moves on to Nash once Nash gets done with HHH. Oh yeah, he faces GOLDBERG, right? SD in 03 was doing great... Raw was like they didn't know what the fuck they were doing for the most part.

Poor Flair. Tags in, misses an elbow and lets Booker T tag out :lmao.

SUPERKICK~!

PEDIGREE~!

Wow, seems kinda early to be throwing out finishers.

Oh well, allows HBK to be the one doing the FIP, as I was afraid it would be Booker T (yeah, I've seen the match before but I don't remember shit lol).

Oh god HHH and HBK brawling. STOP IT.

Huh, Nash got a hot tag in. I barely noticed. This has been DULL AS SHIT. Nothing to talk about. At all.

LIONSAULT TO HBK WHILE HE'S STUCK IN A FIGURE FOUR. Most interesting thing to happen since the 2 random finishers early into the match.

Sledgehammer shot to Nash. It's over. Thankfully.

Bad. Bad bad bad.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Rock Vs Goldberg*

Urgh. If this wasn't the main event I'd just move on to the next match.

:lmao at Rock getting caught up in the ropes when he tries to sell the POWAH of Goldberg by bouncing out of the ring.

About 3 minutes into the match and... ROCK BOTTOM BY GOLDBERG. Followed by... SPEAR! TO THE RING POST. And luckily Goldberg didn't go head first into it and knock himself out this time. Then again maybe if he did that they'd have stopped the match...

Rock applies some weird leg submission hold. Like a modified Sharpshooter, only it looks like shit 8*D.

SPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE. LOL. Nice hope spot tbh.

GOLBOR! Man, Coach is an A+ commentator...

Rock hits some finishers. Golbor kicks out. Absolutely NOTHING happens in between the finishers.

Spear. Entire minute of standing around waiting for Rock to stand back up. Spear. Jackhammer. Win.

Well, shockingly enough this blew...

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Arent you the guy that has both the perfect/hart ppv matches in wwe at ***** ?



I do as well, with King of the Ring getting the slightest of nods if you put a gun to my head. Both are absolutely perfect (no pun intended) matches in my eyes. In reference to what Hayley and I were discussing earlier with callback spots, those 2 matches are a master class in call backs done the right way while still remaining fresh and completely different. I can never watch SS 91' without going straight into KotR 93'. Same with Bret/Austin in SVS 96' to WM 13. Bret was always one of the best with incorporating old spots while adding a twist so it was still fresh. It just adds a sense of history to the competitors.

I can't say I enjoyed their WCW match though, it's on the Perfect set I have, and I thought it was outright garbage on last watch, which makes me sad. Bret and Perfect have some other matches in 89' and 90' that are very good as well, though nowhere near the 91/93 classics.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Hart and Hennig were pretty much done by 98 anyway, WCW or not. I honestly feel like if Bret stayed with WWE, he would have had some more lackluster matches, retire, then come out of retirement to face Angle one time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Need to see a good Finlay match now. Easy way to do that is to watch the match that wasn't vs Bret. 8*D


Here's a good one:

​
From SMASH 2/19/2012. Loved Tajiri's submissions targeting Finlay's legs early in the match which he later in the match attacked again with those vicious kicks. That to me really displayed a great game of chest Tajiri had in mind to pick apart the body part he knew could help him in the long stretch of the match when he ultimately would decide to bring out the big guns with those kicks. Finlay dominated oh so well with holds on the ground. I really dug how he managed to quickly shut down Tajiri's furious offense at almost every turn. The Tarantula and Tombstone teases were effectively built as nail biting moments for me. I really like how big of a deal those moves came across even when they weren't executed. The false finish transitioning into actual finish was immense, I thought. Where the hell did he put that shillelagh? After the match they had an emotional moment. I knew nothing about this promotion before I watched this match and I could sense how much it meant to Tajiri. The more quiet and darker atmosphere might be off putting for some viewers but I thoroughly enjoyed this encounter.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Me? Yes .
> 
> 
> 
> I don't wanna watch it again now .





Cactus Jack said:


> I do as well, with King of the Ring getting the slightest of nods if you put a gun to my head. Both are absolutely perfect (no pun intended) matches in my eyes. In reference to what Hayley and I were discussing earlier with callback spots, those 2 matches are a master class in call backs done the right way while still remaining fresh and completely different. I can never watch SS 91' without going straight into KotR 93'. Same with Bret/Austin in SVS 96' to WM 13. Bret was always one of the best with incorporating old spots while adding a twist so it was still fresh. It just adds a sense of history to the competitors.
> 
> I can't say I enjoyed their WCW match though, it's on the Perfect set I have, and I thought it was outright garbage on last watch, which makes me sad. Bret and Perfect have some other matches in 89' and 90' that are very good as well, though nowhere near the 91/93 classics.


Competely forgot where I was going w/ this , Oh well, yea i like the KOTR, ehh ss 91 is ok to me, Bret just spamming dem headlocks, the commentary is stellar in BOTH which in thinks adds

Oh I disappointed, on paper hbk/nash/booker vs. hhh/flair/y2j should be solid at worst


Rewatching Michaels/Y2J mania for some reason


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Summerslam 1991 is near fucking perfect (fuck the pun) to me, esp when you factor in the state of Hennig's back at the time. KOTR maybe on the same level, they are both masterpieces IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> Here's a good one:
> 
> ​
> From SMASH 2/19/2012. Loved Tajiri's submissions targeting Finlay's legs early in the match which he later in the match attacked again with those vicious kicks. That to me really displayed a great game of chest Tajiri had in mind to pick apart the body part he knew could help him in the long stretch of the match when he ultimately would decide to bring out the big guns with those kicks. Finlay dominated oh so well with holds on the ground. I really dug how he managed to quickly shut down Tajiri's furious offense at almost every turn. The Tarantula and Tombstone teases were effectively built as nail biting moments for me. I really like how big of a deal those moves came across even when they weren't executed. The false finish transitioning into actual finish was immense, I thought. Where the hell did he put that shillelagh? After the match they had an emotional moment. I knew nothing about this promotion before I watched this match and I could sense how much it meant to Tajiri. The more quiet and darker atmosphere might be off putting for some viewers but I thoroughly enjoyed this encounter.


Good grief how I adore this match. Brilliant at every turn. One of the best 2012 had to offer. Great pick.

It was Tajiri's promotion, btw. Which is why him attempting to win the championship to close the promotion down _(as it was their final show there, which I'm certain Finlay mentions in his promo)_ was such a gripping story for the match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Benoit/Finlay from Slamboree. Already seen it before but thought it was a TV match because I took the TV Title name too literal. Awesome four star match just like everything else they've had. JD is still the best but this might be the second best and if not this, then their November 2006 match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Good grief how I adore this match. Brilliant at every turn. One of the best 2012 had to offer. Great pick.
> 
> It was Tajiri's promotion, btw. Which is why him attempting to win the championship to close the promotion down _(as it was their final show there, which I'm certain Finlay mentions in his promo)_ was such a gripping story for the match.


And that's another plus I give to the performers Tajiri and Finlay are and what they present in this match. To be able to convey the weight of the match through Finlay's aggressive and dominant onslaught and Tajiri's fiery passion and resiliency until the very end. What a struggle it was at the finish that I saw symbolized the struggling promotion as its leader fell. Brilliant at every turn indeed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cal fuck yo ass and everybody else's ass Rock/Goldberg is good.



SKINS25 said:


> watching that duggan/haku match in fill from Yeah rep :lol
> 
> I thought I was special and only got it :shocked::cuss:


Really? Because I kind of wrote 'everybody is getting this' alongside the picture. I mean yeah I only bothered to give to people on the last two pages of this thread, but still.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I never got it from you . But someone else posted it and I downloaded and watched it.

Just watched Benoit/Flair Raw 04 and screen recorded it. Will be uploading it once it's saved. Match is still good. Seems my disc is fucked right where the match data is so there are some stutters and freezes, but I think the only thing you actually miss is ONE CHOP lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Really? Because I kind of wrote 'everybody is getting this' alongside the picture. I mean yeah I only bothered to give to people on the last two pages of this thread, but still.


Didnt see the little text besides the gif, excuse me for my inaccuracies


Yea just finished hbk/y2j crazy how much this match goes down for me every time I see it. whatvs hbk4lyfe but tbh not really a fan of any hbk/y2j matches


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Need to see a good Finlay match now. Easy way to do that is to watch the match that wasn't vs Bret. 8*D


How about a matwork-heavy match with Fit Finlay vs a Californian Indy guy you've probably never heard of:







If that's not your cup of tea, just do Callihan/Finlay from Evolve 9. I wish that was available to stream, though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cal fuck yo ass and everybody else's ass Rock/Goldberg is good.


The biggest comfort for me enjoying that match is I've got somebody else who's credible and agrees with me on it. 



> Really? Because I kind of wrote 'everybody is getting this' alongside the picture. I mean yeah I only bothered to give to people on the last two pages of this thread, but still.


All I could do was return it with lolhaku. 



King Cal said:


> Just watched Benoit/Flair Raw 04 and screen recorded it. Will be uploading it once it's saved. Match is still good. Seems my disc is fucked right where the match data is so there are some stutters and freezes, but I think the only thing you actually miss is ONE CHOP lol.


:mark:

If you can, prioritize the 6 man tag from 14 June because I've been dying to watch it and I'm saving it for when Cal's HQ exclusive is available.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Competely forgot where I was going w/ this , Oh well, yea i like the KOTR, ehh ss 91 is ok to me, Bret just spamming dem headlocks, the commentary is stellar in BOTH which in thinks adds
> 
> Oh I disappointed, on paper hbk/nash/booker vs. hhh/flair/y2j should be solid at worst
> 
> ...



If you are referring to SS91 vs Perfect and SS92' vs Davey Boy with the "Bret spamming headlocks" comment, it was because they were both blown the fuck up and Bret was giving them a chance to rest. Davey spent the months leading up to Wimbley smoking crack with Neidhart and Perfect spent the months on a boat fishing. Both guys weren't anywhere close to 100% which just adds to the fact that Bret is one of the best ever, period.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cal fuck yo ass and everybody else's ass Rock/Goldberg is good.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Because I kind of wrote 'everybody is getting this' alongside the picture. I mean yeah I only bothered to give to people on the last two pages of this thread, but still.


I'm honestly wondering how you find any good in that crap. Goldberg didn't even feel like GOLDBERG during it. And Rock, ugh. That coked out idiot.

I got that line btw. MEANS I'M SPECIAL.



Rah said:


> How about a matwork-heavy match with Fit Finlay vs a Californian Indy guy you've probably never heard of:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would be awesome if I've seen that guy live before and totally didn't know it.

Finlay vs Callihan. No streams. And I don't own those DVDs just for those matches. Sad faces across the board.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I had Finlay Vs Callihan from E9 on my PC and had it uploaded ages ago. On Megaupload . Probably deleted the file too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought you or Yeah may have uploaded it, but I think that could have a been a completely different Callihan match altogether.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Would be awesome if I've seen that guy live before and totally didn't know it.


He's an utter gem to the indies. Buck/skew teeth and an anorexic Antonio Cesaro look stands out in wrestling. You'd probably remember him.



King Cal said:


> Probably deleted the file too.


WHY?!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> If you are referring to SS91 vs Perfect and SS92' vs Davey Boy with the "Bret spamming headlocks" comment, it was because they were both blown the fuck up and Bret was giving them a chance to rest. Davey spent the months leading up to Wimbley smoking crack with Neidhart and Perfect spent the months on a boat fishing. Both guys weren't anywhere close to 100% which just adds to the fact that Bret is one of the best ever, period.


Sorry, that post was pretty difficult you read 

I was referring to the henning/hart series (KOTR 93 and ss 91 ). Yea I guess I understand from that pov, although I think bret/davey ss 92 is one of the most boring matches Ive ever seen. Iirc love their iyh) I'll have to rewatch the ss 91, but I had the some problem."Heavily-worked mat wrestling matches" arent really my cup of tea



@Rah I never got to reply but since your in here why not, I recall you commenting when I was watching that shinsuke nakumura match, yea He is great but I can sense he has a problem no-selling alot


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I dunno, because I'm Cal probably.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It now leaves me to realize I haven't to been any So-Cal Indie show since 2008.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> The biggest comfort for me enjoying that match is I've got somebody else who's credible and agrees with me on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think I have that, if Cal can't upload, I will next week.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got the 6 man already on my upload queue to go after Flair/Benoit .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sorted Cal. I'll have to watch it myself lol


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Finlay's 2011/12 indy run was swell.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> The biggest comfort for me enjoying that match is I've got somebody else who's credible and agrees with me on it.


Awyeah, CREDIBLE. Took 5 years.



HayleySabin said:


> Finlay vs Callihan. No streams. And I don't own those DVDs just for those matches. Sad faces across the board.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAdzeQKrn_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXlV8g6Q1wU

Sad faces I BANISH YOU.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Still wont trust your opinion on what's good and bad since your taste is so left field. 



Clint Eastwood said:


> Think I have that, if Cal can't upload, I will next week.


Do you have the high quality Sky Sports version? Because that's the one I'm looking for which only Cal seems to have as it is. I can already find them all in 240p on youtube so if that's what you have, then there's no point in uploading it since I can already access it. 



King Cal said:


> Got the 6 man already on my upload queue to go after Flair/Benoit .


Cool.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Still wont trust your opinion on what's good and bad since your taste is so left field.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, its the Sky Sports Version  Is that what Cal has then?

Watching Flair/Savage WMVIII, loved this storyline as a kid, I still remember the WWF Magazine with the doctored pics if Liz/Ric.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yeah, its the Sky Sports Version  Is that what Cal has then?
> 
> Watching Flair/Savage WMVIII, *loved this storyline as a kid, I still remember the WWF Magazine with the doctored pics if Liz/Ric. *


:mark: one of my all-time favorite angles ELIZABETH WAS MINE !! only you naitch, and then the fake taboids and tape recordings :banderas match is good but kinda a long to sit


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish there was build up vids like there is now for these big matches, wouldn't mind someone making a custom one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yeah, its the Sky Sports Version  Is that what Cal has then?


Yep, the picture is pretty clear and on DM appears in 480p. I was just wondering because the last time I downloaded a Raw 2004 video you uploaded was the Benoit/Jericho vs Batista/HHH tag from December which was the same as what is accessible in torrent packs and youtube from Spike TV.

And not to be rude but your elimination chamber upload recently appeared hella blurry to me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yeah, its the Sky Sports Version  Is that what Cal has then?
> 
> Watching Flair/Savage WMVIII, loved this storyline as a kid, I still remember the WWF Magazine with the doctored pics if Liz/Ric.



That's one of the best 20-30 matches in company history IMHO, I absolutely adore Flair/Savage WM 8. I think it blows away Piper/Hart from the same show and I love that match too.

Savage was just the man. His WWE run will stand the test of time as one of the best ever. He's another guy who was equally good as a face or heel. You should watch his first WWE match vs Rick McGraw. He manages to get NUCLEAR heat within just a few minutes of debuting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the match, I miss Heenan/Monsoon.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Am I missing any good Edge/Cena matches? From a Meltzer listing:

Summerslam 8/20/06 Edge vs. John Cena (Title Can Change Hands on DQ) ***3/4
Unforgiven 9/17/06 John Cena vs. Edge (Tables, Ladders, and Chairs) ****1/4
RAW 10/2/06 John Cena vs. Edge (Cage) ***3/4

And I also know that there was a triple threat between Cena, Edge, and RVD on July 3, 2006 on RAW, which I've already seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone should be missing good Edge/Cena matches because one doesn't exist .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I REALLY need to check out Savage's early matches, esp in Memphis. I still havnt seen the Loser Leaves Town match yet FFS  Plus some other stuff, im in a Randy mood now


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Am I missing any good Edge/Cena matches? From a Meltzer listing:
> 
> Summerslam 8/20/06 Edge vs. John Cena (Title Can Change Hands on DQ) ***3/4
> Unforgiven 9/17/06 John Cena vs. Edge (Tables, Ladders, and Chairs) ****1/4
> ...


Those are all good and so is Raw match from 13/2/06 with Foley as special referee. I think they have another good match on Raw in December 2006 too. Not to overlook the triple threat with HHH from Backlash 2006.

That covers it up. Might as well give their LMS match from Backlash 09 a try too so you can form your own opinion on it. Most here including myself aren't fans of it but outside of here, many praise it.


----------



## Patrick Task (Jan 16, 2014)

Gonna go with Mania anthologies.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok so I take back what I said to cjack, and say I put my proverbial "foot in my mouth". I just finsihed Bret/henning ss 91 and FUCKING LOVED it. Went up a million times. What stuck out to me is Mr. Perfect just if you take into account his horrid back problem at the time and not being in wrestling shape, this is one of the best performances Ive ever seen.Guy was Phenomenal in this, cjack you wouldnt even know he was gassed, the headlock I mentioned before was only in the beginning, and he didnt look to be in need of major air the whole time. Just the selling,well timed kicks,move of the ropes just all :banderas, there is a reason he is in my all time fav 5

I may give 5 * :draper2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Those are all good and so is Raw match from 13/2/06 with Foley as special referee. I think they have another good match on Raw in December 2006 too. Not to overlook the triple threat with HHH from Backlash 2006.
> 
> That covers it up. Might as well give their LMS match from Backlash 09 a try too so you can form your own opinion on it. Most here including myself aren't fans of it but outside of here, many praise it.


Wow, didn't even know that LMS match existed. Meltzer gave it **** 1/2. They really need to put out a LMS DVD. It seems like there are a bunch of random ones that don't get mentioned much, but when they do, they're usually pretty highly rated (Batista/Taker LMS is one that comes to mind).

Thanks for answering!

One more question. What would you say is the best Cena/Batista match? Summerslam '08, WM 26, or the Last Man Standing match?

People here praised Summerslam '08, but I thought it was just alright. The ending wasn't the norm for a Cena match, so that's interesting, but I felt the match ended before it got the chance to really rev up.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best Batista/Cena match is the Summerslam. The other three are fine matches, but the Summerslam match was the most fun and very unpredictable when it first happened.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Ok so I take back what I said to cjack, and say I put my proverbial "foot in my mouth". I just Bret/henning ss 91 and FUCKING LOVED it. Went up a million times. What stuck out to me is just if you take into account his horrid back problem at the time and not being in wrestling shape, this is one of the best performances Ive ever seen.Guy was Phenomenal in this, cjack you wouldnt even know he was gassed, the headlock I mentioned before was only in the beginning, and he didnt look to be in need of major air the whole time. Just the selling,well timed kicks,move of the ropes just all :banderas, there is a reason he is in my all time fav 5


. Glad you dug it man, there isn't one single thing I would change about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw February 9th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7bT45kPaDbEyu5cLhj (private)

Like I said earlier, some stutters and freezes during the match, but the only thing you actually miss in terms of action is a chop. Might have to get some replacement Raw 04 discs at some point for the couple of episodes that are dying on me .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DLing that mofo now! :mark:



LilOlMe said:


> One more question. What would you say is the best Cena/Batista match? Summerslam '08, WM 26, or the Last Man Standing match?
> 
> People here praised Summerslam '08, but I thought it was just alright. The ending wasn't the norm for a Cena match, so that's interesting, but I felt the match ended before it got the chance to really rev up.


SS is my favorite followed by LMS. Don't really recall the I Quit from Over the Limit but WM26 was decent, nothing great.


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw February 9th 2004
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7bT45kPaDbEyu5cLhj (private)
> 
> Like I said earlier, some stutters and freezes during the match, but the only thing you actually miss in terms of action is a chop. Might have to get some replacement Raw 04 discs at some point for the couple of episodes that are dying on me .


You have a match between Ric Flair and Chris Benoit.....*WITH NO CHOPS?!*

What sorcery is this?!

:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are plenty of chops in the match lol. FLAIR'S CHEST BLEEDS from chops. But ONE chop is missing due to the DVD freezing .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished the match and the freezing happens a few times but doesn't take away from the match for me. Fun 10 minute of CHOPS and Flair's chest bleeding was intense. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

6 man is online now, but 480p isn't finished yet. At 86% right now, so shouldn't be much longer:

Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - Raw June 14th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40LAuV2HbSQjs5cM44 (private)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> 6 man is online now, but 480p isn't finished yet. At 86% right now, so shouldn't be much longer:
> 
> Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - Raw June 14th 2004
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40LAuV2HbSQjs5cM44 (private)



Love that match, best of all the Evoluion tags I think.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy shit. I just watched Patera/Backlund TDM for the first time after Cody mentioned it a few hours ago, and it legit may be a top ten match in company history. I don't really have time to write out a full review or anything but even if you're not a fan of older wrestling or feel that generally you can't appreciate it, fuck that ideology off and watch this anyway. Everything is so simple yet so effective. Amazing strikes thrown, Backlund's fantastic facial expressions, his great comebacks, nuclear crowd, Patera's cut offs were good also, superb use of blood to really put over the violence. Everything.

There literally is nothing to complain about in this match, and thats not hyperbole. In my opinion, there is not one single flaw in this match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll take the 8 man from April 14th over it tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So how many of my requests are remaining now? I can think of Benoit/Kane rematch on Raw, the 8 man tag, the 6 man tag with same line-up as that elimination match two weeks before SummerSlam and Edge/Orton from May 10th. That is, unless you also added some other stuff I brought up like the Highlight Reel with Benoit and Flair from 2/2 followed by the two minute Henry/Benoit match.



Cactus Jack said:


> Love that match, best of all the Evoluion tags I think.


My favorite too. Following it is the 8 man from April and then it's a struggle between the rest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - 12/4 - no
Orton vs Edge - 10/5 - no

Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - 2/8
Benoit vs Kane - 28/6
Rock/Orton segment from Raw 21 June 04

That's what I've got in my notepad doc. The "no" ones were ones where my discs wouldn't let me rip em, but they still play like the Benoit/Flair episode so I can screen record them now anyway. I can add the highlight reel and Benoit/Henry too .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> . Glad you dug it man, there isn't one single thing I would change about it.


I loved it brother, want to write a full review but dont have the time. Perfect clocked in an all-time classic performance. I give me alot of flack but, Bret was awesome as well, simple and controlled combacks and control segments. Probably at top 20 match in wwe history


Bless Curt Henning


@FLUX ya that match is pretty good, not a huge backlund fan, and some old stuff does bore me (Some not all) but it was good


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - 12/4 - no
> Orton vs Edge - 10/5 - no
> 
> Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - 2/8
> ...


Nice. While trying to not get too bothersome, another match that I thought of is Shelton vs HHH (the first one from 29/3) which I can't find in good quality anywhere. If that can be added, I would be grateful. 

I think that should cover it up because everything else is available in decent quality and the six man tag with Tajiri/Shelton/Edge can be seen in HD in WWE.com. If only I could figure out a way to download their videos.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlund/Patera is great, but I wouldn't even have it in his top 5 matches!

5. Bob Backlund Vs Don Muraco - MSG 09/21/1981
4. Bob Backlund Vs Greg Valentine - MSG 19/02/1979 
3. Bob Backlund Vs Adrian Adonis - MSG 18/01/1982
2. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter – WWF 21/03/1981
1. Bob Backlund Vs Sgt. Slaughter - WWF 10/01/1981


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

King Cal said:


> There are plenty of chops in the match lol. FLAIR'S CHEST BLEEDS from chops. But ONE chop is missing due to the DVD freezing .


Ooooooh. Alright. 

I see where you're going. I'll be sure to check that out.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm such a rookie when it comes to anything 80's Wrestling. Something I look to remedy ASAP. I'll check them all out soon'ish. Cheers Cal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fucking flair chest is bleeding from the chops :ti I;m literally watching this match dying of laughter


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> I'm such a rookie when it comes to anything 80's Wrestling. Something I look to remedy ASAP. I'll check them all out soon'ish. Cheers Cal.



If you dug the TDM, if you haven't already seen it, you should really REALLY check out the Sheik/Slaughter Boot Camp match at MSG. I legitimately would have it in my top 10 for company history, maybe even top 5. It's better than the TDM IMHO. Also, the Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight at MSG is another must watch in the 80s wild brawl genre.

One slept on match that I've brought up before that's similar to the ones I've just listed is the Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer No DQ match from the best of Mid South set. Probably my favorite match on the entire set, absolute madness. I always knew Duggan was great, but I had no clue who Buzz Sawyer was before getting that set. He's incredible. He's also a complete nut who would eat raw meat in his promos. So there's that too.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Have Rey and Benoit ever faced each other?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

bigbuxxx said:


> Have Rey and Benoit ever faced each other?


Oct 1st 2002 on SD is the only singles match I could find existing. A bunch of tags and a triple threat too, but only one singles.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Have Rey and Benoit ever faced each other?


x6j4sr

This is their only one on one match. They've had tag matches and a triple threat with Kurt Angle but strangely, nothing else.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Off the top of my head, a few tag matches also involving Edge and Angle (I think they've interacted in tag matches in WCW too) and a triple threat with Angle. And I want to say I remember them facing each other on SD some time in 2002 or 2003 (NOT SURE THOUGH).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Highlight Reel with Benoit & Flair + Henry Vs Benoit - Raw February 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2dyVp3DakkRTj5cNp8 (private)

Again, still waiting on 480p. About 86% done too atm lol.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Thanks guys. I'll rep when I can.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Just putting in some Armageddon 2007. Remember it being a pretty fun show all in all with nothing too spectacular. Trips-Jeff I seem to remember being surprisingly good and the triple threat fun too. Anyone have any snowflakes for that show? Will post some thoughts after


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really need to see that show,I know one Trips-Hardy match is considered the best,is it this one?

The triple threat I remember being good, better than the HIAC match at SVS? Probably,not a huge fan of that match


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The one that everybody considers to be the "elite" match of the group is the No Mercy bout.

& rightfully so, fucking rocks.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ah yes thats it, that whole PPV rocks IIRC, Show/taker was on that right? That was awesome plus the :mark: ladder match= greatness


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

& Hardy Vs Henry :mark: :mark:.

What a fucking show, I need to watch it in full sometime as I've never seen JBL Vs Batista or Rey Mysterio Vs Kane .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why isn't anyone doing a yearly review of 2008 PPVs? Not a bad year to do at all. You're sure to find gems in each show.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

NEED HELP:

Does anyone have a link to the promo from last year, where Cena talked about how he does what he does because when a kid with cancer looks at you and says "even stronger" or whatever means something to him, that's all that matters to him?

I thought it was one of the promos with Bryan, but I skimmed through them, and didn't find that one. Maybe against Henry? Any help would be appreciated.

Actually, maybe it was one of the ones with Bryan, because I think it was the one where Cena said that if he left the WWE, he wouldn't wrestle anywhere else. Yet I can't seem to find it when I look through some of the promos with Bryan (especially the "you're a parody of wrestling" one).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the Foley doc. I love it but it makes me wish there was a Foley/Vader match on the set. unk3


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> NEED HELP:
> 
> Does anyone have a link to the promo from last year, where Cena talked about how he does what he does because when a kid with cancer looks at you and says "even stronger" or whatever means something to him, that's all that matters to him?
> 
> ...


its with Bryan and on the Raw before Summerslam I believe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FLUX said:


> Holy shit. I just watched Patera/Backlund TDM for the first time after Cody mentioned it a few hours ago, and it legit may be a top ten match in company history. I don't really have time to write out a full review or anything but even if you're not a fan of older wrestling or feel that generally you can't appreciate it, fuck that ideology off and watch this anyway. Everything is so simple yet so effective. Amazing strikes thrown, Backlund's fantastic facial expressions, his great comebacks, nuclear crowd, Patera's cut offs were good also, superb use of blood to really put over the violence. Everything.
> 
> There literally is nothing to complain about in this match, and thats not hyperbole. In my opinion, there is not one single flaw in this match.


Thoughts on the match:



> Bob Backlund(c) vs Ken Patera - Texas Death Match - WWF 5/19/80
> 
> Dubbed a "Texas Death Match". In reality it's nothing more than a "No DQ/No Holds Barred" match. Which is what it should have been called considering Vince referred to it as the latter about five times during. No biggie. I'm just saying. However, almost certain Texas Death Matches were around in the early 80's. Stip match complete w/the set of rules in all. I'm too hung up on this. My expectations going in this were split. I LOVE Backlund. Dude kills it 9/10. The fraction there is nil. Only matches of his I think I don't at least like were the ones vs Bret in the mid 90's. The flipside to this match was never caring for Ken Patera. He was just some muscled up dude who had the IC Championship. Can't name a single time he's wow'ed me. Which is why I'm glad I checked this out. I'll always be able to say he was good in this. Entire match was good. Really good, tbf. Shouldn't undersell it. Backlund has the best habit out of pacing his matches in old timey WWF better than most. He's all babyface & MSG's hero, meanwhile Patera is a dick who's showing it early on by taking the rules - or lack there of - to his advantage, being quicker on the draw. One sequence where Patera and Backlund tumble to the outside saw an awesome moment w/Patera becoming mega pissed and demolishing Bob by using the guardrail, stiff punches, & the god damn championship. Ken was legit here when it came to embracing the no rules aspect. Instead of being "random heel here" while beating up the over guy, he decides to let himself stand out with his brute assholeish-ness. I dug that. Ken's flop of a sick piledriver won my heart too. wrestling could use more flop style bumping in the modern age. Everyone was so willing back in the 80's. Backlund blades and it ups his sympathy value to 11 (I might overuse that line in my shitty reviews, fyi. There's one.) Backlund's punches here were something else. Largely due to them looking awful on a few occasions that they were too awesome. He's pissed. Stuck in this situation w/Patera so he says fuck it & decides to unleash. He's throwing them like a retarded kid who just had his mother insulted and he fully comprehended it. Knuckles right square to the face. Coming from a trillion angles. A few connect dead on. Patera's selling of it is sweet. b/c I know that's not "selling". That's merely the recoil of a man who's been knocked square in the head by a meaty clubber. Best part of the match is when Backlund finishes this tirade by leaping off the middle rope w/a super punch that inspired a generation apparently b/c he NAILED it. Great punches = JOY. Close second for best highlight is when Backlund gets the chair - what heat. WHITE HEAT. Chair was such a sweet prop to bring in at the end. Put the hate concept over the top & got a brilliant near fall. Dude showed signs of going nuts already. Hell. Yes. I'm enamored as hell w/Backlund fighting. It's all I want to discuss here & it's all this match was. That's why he was the best. Mr. All American Lad wrestler gets backed into a corner; he'll fight. I'm never any good w/reviews like this. I try to emote as best I can about what I liked (always easier to slam the shit I hate...) but it comes up short most of the time. Last thing I'd want is making it sound like a "play by play" review. Those suck. Doesn't matter as long as I get the point across that this was really quite swell. VERY swell. See, point driven home. Not the best match I'll watch for this project, but hey, a damn fun one that could be good for the lower portion of my list. That's the level of quality I know & am expecting when I slam through more in this decade.


Patera's shining moment in his career. That's what Backlund does.

I only possibly undersold it w/my last line in the paragraph b/c of something completely different altogether. It's a fabulous match, obviously.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Lazyking said:


> its with Bryan and on the Raw before Summerslam I believe.


Perfect, that is it, thanks! The reason I thought it wasn't is because the clip on Youtube edited out that Cena part. The whole thing is on watchwrestling. Reps for you, thanks!

Watched some of Wrestlemania 22:

*Had no idea that Triple H/Cena match would be as fun as it was. I know it's almost entirely due to the crowd, but I thought it'd be a dull watch. The crowd was hot, almost to Hogan/Rock levels. Wtf. They were popping big for Triple H just simply hitting Cena with an elbow in the corner. :lmao

And look at Cena, selling the exhaustion and pain even long after the victory was gotten. That's how you do it, Cena!

I really enjoyed it. Maybe it benefited from going in with no expectations, and I know there was nothing really spectacular in the actual wrestling, but the crowd made it fun as hell, and I have to say that H played to them beautifully.

*Shawn/Vince was fun. You should watch it, skins. Vince was working the crowd like a stud; Shane makes me laugh; and it's nice to see a bit of "old Shawn" in Shawn's performance.

*Still love the Mysterio/Angle/Orton triple threat match. Fun as hell, and I just don't see what's not to like. Yeah, I see your point about the tapping out thing, C2D, but obviously they had an investment in keeping Angle looking strong. Too bad for Orton they didn't do the same there for him, lol.

I thought the performance of all three men was great, though. Felt they all perfectly encapsulated their characters within ten minutes of nonstop action. 

*Liked Henry/Taker. For what it was, it was good. lol at Taker getting Henry up on his shoulder with ease after all of that.

Are Benoit/JBL and Trish/Mickie from that event worth watching?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs JBL is good & Trish vs Mickie is probably the most widely well received Divas match from WWE. Seems to have universal praise on it for it being a match most like to watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Perfect, that is it, thanks! The reason I thought it wasn't is because the clip on Youtube edited out that Cena part. The whole thing is on watchwrestling. Reps for you, thanks!
> 
> Watched some of Wrestlemania 22:
> 
> ...


I have, really fun match, I know vince mcmahon isnt the ideal Hbk match at WM but it was good, JR calling it was a major +

I may be the only one that enjoyed the triple threat, it was fun and a good moment for the winner

Cena/hhh was good maybe a tad long, and henry/taker is ok, :lol its funny that most when rating streak matches just by past it completely like it never happened


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Benoit vs JBL is good & Trish vs Mickie is probably the most widely well received Divas match from WWE.


Thanks! I'd heard that about a Trish/Mickie match, but didn't know it was this one. Glad to hear. Will be watching these other matches soon.

Sounds like pretty much every match from this WM was good then. Foley/Edge is on there, and I assume the MITB match is good as well. 

Now I'm going to have to go back and read all of your WM rankings again. :lol




SKINS25 said:


> henry/taker is ok, :lol its funny that most when rating streak matches just by past it completely like it never happened


Yeah, I've been saying I've seen all of the streak matches since WM21, but kept forgetting to mention not seeing that one, lol.

While on the subject, I really liked Taker vs. Punk. Punk's heel mannerisms and performance was just great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a great WM, pardon the bad main events. But you liked those, so yeah, def should dig the entire event.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some bad booking decisions aside, I enjoy WM22 a lot. Fun show throughout and nothing outright sucks other than the Boogeyman/Booker T match and the pillow fight obviously. Main event is a blast to watch with the crowd and the triple threat is fun for what it is. Do think HBK/Vince could've done with a few minutes removed from it. Too much time wasted on it but it's an enjoyable squash by Shawn.

Also just watched the elimination tag CAL uploaded earlier. Wasn't as good as I remember but still enjoyable and 30 minutes go by very fast. Think the 8 man tag will overtake it for the #1 Evolution tag if I rewatch it when Cal uploads it but that's up in the air.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wished Shawn vs Vince got more time so the two championship matches didn't happen. 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Give me a reason to change my opinion on Scott Norton.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch everything he did.

Boosh. :luck2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sweet. I hope he has a match with Bret Hart or Curt Hennig unk2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 22 is still my 2nd favorite ever. I don't think it totally stacks up, match-wise, to some others but its one of the shows I love watching.

Think it was also the first WWE DVD I bought.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sweet. I hope he has a match with Bret Hart or Curt Hennig unk2


He's too busy beating up Ernest Miller to bother w/those HACKS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WM 22 is a Chicago show so it automatically rules. Heck, Chicago was able to make a PPV with THREE Triple H matches (two of which are with Orton) and a Punjabi Prison match involving Khali and Batista good.

Mercifully, I can't find any Bret or Curt matches with Norton. I did find him beating up cruiserweights and then cutting a horrible promo and then powerbombing Hugh Morrus :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NORTON swag. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, DAT No Mercy '07. So beautiful of a show. Rey/Finlay and that 6-Man Tag were both quite good too.

But do y'all know what other show is Chicago too? WM 13 8*D
Well tbh, it ain't that bad when you consider it did have the greatest match in WWE history (imo at least).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's high praise for the Chicago Street Fight. I respect that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck off :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayley3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NORTON VS MYSTERIO from Nitro 99 I *think* it is, needs to be seen. If I'm remembering it right, it includes a pretty awesome POWERBOMB.

WM 13 street fight :mark:. Such amazing fun.

C2D, can't do ya Edge/Orton from May 10th. My disc is so fucked up it won't even play . Uploading the 8 man tag now, currently ripping Kane/Benoit, and I'll get the rest today too .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio wins via kick to the balls & Norton's sell of it is cartoony. I love it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's the one Norton match that I do remember vividly. Man, Mysterio was killing it during that maskless period. Of course, when doesn't he kill it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2000. He was an obnoxious fuck that I hated at that time. Don't remember any matches being good either. More of a product of the time than any drop in talent from him - b/c he's godly - but I honestly found him to be increasingly off putting w/the crummy Filthy Animal tactics.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The influence of Konnan. Curse that man. Has anyone actually watched his AAA stuff? I have a hard time believing that an entire nation loved Konnan that much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's Mexico. They're fucked for a reason.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I take it you're either a Californian or a Texan. In that case, I sympathize with you. At least they gave us El Dandy. The most underrated.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It's Mexico. They're fucked for a reason.




:lmao

Btw if we had a tournament to see who has the best sig banner on the forum, you're new one is easily a #1 seed. It's spectacular. I need more of that Irish bastard in my life.

I rewatched the Los Guerreros/Team Angle Backlash 2003 match after Cal reviewed it. He pretty much nailed it, the match reached other levels of greatness whenever Eddie was involved, and Chavo brought it right back down whenever he tagged in. Worthless hump. He does have a pretty drop kick, but that's about all he can do and he spams the fuck out of it in singles contests. I wonder how he felt having the crowd constantly chanting "Eddie, Eddie" whenever he was in the ring. It happens at some point in MOST Los Guerreros matches, yet I can't ever recall it happening when Tajiri was tagging with Eddie. That's gotta smart eh Chavo?

Anyways, I was actually pretty impressed with Team Angle here, aside from the hilarious ness of them bringing a large portrait of Kurt to the ring (the face he's making is just priceless) they were all business in the ring. I don't know how much of it was Eddie keeping them moving, but when they seized control about halfway through they really got some heat on Eddie. A few brilliant near tags only added to the drama. Finish was slightly botched but all in all it's a great match. The 2 Smackdown tags with Eddie/Tajiri are superior in every way, but still this was fun. ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was using facts to support my case, FF, but the former on the pending question does apply. Not bothered by it though. People are people.

Always can use the shot of Finlay in life. Only, make sure you take it while inside away from the public. Attempting to gouge the eyes out of the first bloke to annoy you, followed by rapid forearms knocking 'em unconscious isn't something you can easily get away w/outside of pro wrestling. Who knew? This crazy world.

Backlash '03 tag is great. Always thought that too. MOTN & the proverbial 'drop in the bucket' for all four dudes & the Smackdown brand circa 2003. Haas & Benjamin had a wonderful catalog of matches that year. Top notch debut year. You never hear their year get discussed in the same breathe as Brock or The Shield. Benjamin does count too. Screw those few Sunday Night Heat matches in late 2002.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> WM 22 is a Chicago show so it automatically rules. Heck, Chicago was able to make a PPV with THREE Triple H matches (two of which are with Orton) and a Punjabi Prison match involving Khali and Batista good.


Was a fun show to watch live. As were JD 09, NOC 10, Extreme Rules 12, and Payback last year. And everyone knows the greatness of MITB 11. Strangely enough, the only Chi-town PPV in the last few years I did not attend.

We have a rep as the site of some of the best shows and matches ever:

Flair/Steamboat Chi-town Rumble 89
Hart/Austin WM13
Punk/Joe II
Punk/Cena MITB 11
Lesnar/Cena Extreme Rules 12 :mark:

The Flair/Garvin Cage Match at Starrcade 87 is one hell of a match too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 Chicago PPV's:

1 - Extreme Rules 2012
2 - Money In The Bank 2011
3 - WrestleMania 22
4 - Backlash 2001
5 - Night Of Champions 2010

Payback 2013 and SummerSlam 1994 would come right after. Worst is probably The Wrestling Classic 1988. That one kinda sucked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've never been one to note a town for being better than others in wrestling, but the exceptions always seem to be Chicago & a lot of areas in California. Guess I can say Los Angeles for one and move on to get my point across. Towns are usually hyped and give the shows that are stationed there for the night a booming atmosphere. Something more than what the 'average' audience could provide.

Sacramento moved up a lot of point too after the phenomenal Punk vs Vince + Ryback goodness that came in October of 2012.

I fear the annoyance w/the rest of this topic b/c I hate talking about god damn wrestling crowds, but yeah, these two fit. Oh right, RESEDA has to get a mention. Seldom are the shitty moments that crowd provides. What energy. It's hot. Sucks you in.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Reseda :moyes1

It's a dream of mine to attend a PWG event, even if the card does prominently feature Tomasso Ciampa, Michael Elgin and AR Fox, just for the crowd. And The Young Bucks. Obviously The Young Bucks.

EDIT: AND CANDICE. bama4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You forgot about New York, Hayley Williams fan.

Though I respect you more now for giving Vince/Punk the rightful honors. JR freaking out old school style, Vince wrestling at sixty-fucking-seven like that and the pop for Ryback were just nuts. One of the top moments of 2012 for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hoping the recent use of shitty indie dummies ends soon. Hard to believe Fox is having the best success of the bunch too. Sticking him in tags these days is a blessing. He does nothing and his opponents can do it all. Doesn't hurt when he's in there vs Bucks & the carry job is absurd. Feeling not only one, but TWO matches he had in 2013 were amazing just by association was baffling enough. I hate those three so much. Damned thing of it all is the crowd is so awesome, they even cheer when those boobs are out there. Bah.

CANDICE. She's >>>>>


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I wish I had access to more CANDICE besides PWG. She tears it up everytime and her alliance with Joey is just all sorts of great. Marked like a bitch when he made the save at BOLA (was it BOLA, can't remember). There NEEDS to be a Candice/Cole or Candice/Steen match soon. Oh my lord. Her adopting some of Human Tornado's schtick puts a smile on my face everytime I see it, whether it be the pimp slap or the dance-kick-low blow thing in the corner. 

Yeah, I don't care about the majority of these indie hacks coming in to PWG. Get rid of Ciampa, Elgin, ACH and Fox. Let Avalon, Rosas and Goodtime feature a bit more, even if it's just in the openers with other So-Cal guys like B Boy, Mack and Cage. Where in the hell did The Cutlers go btw? And Bonham? And Gatson? None of them were OMGAMAZEBALLS but I'll take any of them over Ciampa. :side: Also, NEED MORE TJP. Just another example of a guy excelling more than usual thanks to the PWG environment. Wish TNA would either use him or just let him commit 100% to indys. 

But yeah, WWE talk... Gonna watch some more BACKLUND tonight. Probably going to watch the five matches Cal listed yesterday. Can't wait. Might go on a 80's binge for a few das. I'll probably end up resorting to WCW 91-94 and some more DUSTIN though. Either way I win.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just keep Dustin/Vader on repeat for 10 hours and try to see will you get bored at any point.

I THINK NOT.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

From COTC 29?

Could never, ever get bored of that. Dustin's best match, at least from what I've seen. Watch you/Cal/Cody/Yeah/Other go out, suggest 28 matches and make me look like a tit. Oh well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> From COTC 29?
> 
> Could never, ever get bored of that. Dustin's best match, at least from what I've seen. Watch you/Cal/Cody/Yeah/Other go out, suggest 28 matches and make me look like a tit. Oh well.



If it's not his best, it's atleast still my favorite. The one with Arn from 1992 that Yeah turned me onto would be a close 2nd or third. Atleast for singles, because we all know WarGames is the greatest thing ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> From COTC 29?
> 
> Could never, ever get bored of that. Dustin's best match, at least from what I've seen. Watch you*/Cal/Cody/Yeah/Other *go out, suggest 28 matches and make me look like a tit. Oh well.


One day, my name will be added to the list, cream all ways rises to the top brother


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)




----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

With only 112 posts in this thread? Not yet, jobber.

rton2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can't say I expect my name there either :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

One day, it isnt about who knowledge them most/most talented, its about the politicking brother :hhh2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> One day, my name will be added to the list, cream all ways rises to the top brother


Everyone will just assume it's about me anyway. I'M THE ONE TRUE GREG HERE. :hb


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Though y'all can honestly say I'm the star - I have a GOLD champagne bottle + Mick "God" Foley as my signature and avatar respectively MUAHAHAHAHAAHHHHH :

WM 30 meanwhile is looking more and more stacked, with Austin affirming we wants to be there in his podcast :mark:
So let me get this straight - Hogan, Cena, Taker, Punk, Lesnar, Bryan, Orton, HHH, HBK, Batista, Goldberg, Kane, Show, Piper, RVD, Jericho, Mysterio, Goldust, Henry, Cesaro, AJ Lee, Warrior, Roberts, possibly Rock, possibly Sting, likely Flair and now Austin all under the same roof in New Orleans (though obviously not all of them in a wrestling scenario)?

Katrina can kiss my ass :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Greg vs. Greg at wrestlemania 30 , winner becomes anointed as one of the "wise" man of the thread amongst the greats.


Well steal the show brother


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You know how I know I'm still at jobber status in this thread? I don't even know how to check how many posts I've made in here 

Seriously, how does one check such a stat? I'm expecting Hayley to be 1, Cal 2, C2D 3, then Skins 4. 

Feel like watching an entire WCW PPV. Outside of Spring Stampede 1994 which I've seen numerous times, what are some good options?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

On the General WWE forum. click on the number of replies of the thread. A pop up window should... pop up?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> C2D, can't do ya Edge/Orton from May 10th. My disc is so fucked up it won't even play . Uploading the 8 man tag now, currently ripping Kane/Benoit, and I'll get the rest today too .


Ah, that sucks. But it's okay because I found it in good quality on dailymotion and watched it a while back because I assumed you can't get it ripped.



Cactus Jack said:


> You know how I know I'm still at jobber status in this thread? I don't even know how to check how many posts I've made in here
> 
> Seriously, how does one check such a stat? I'm expecting Hayley to be 1, Cal 2, C2D 3, then Skins 4.


You check it by clicking on the number of posts when viewing a section. It appears below Replies and is a clickable number.

You got it correct, though. My sorry ass never gets higher than #3 despite my crazy ass post count that makes me hate myself.  :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You have 71, Jack.

I remember the days when I'd be amongst the leaders. :sad:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#9 on dem ranks. Still top 10 though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to always be #1, but I handed that over to Cody because half the time I can never be arsed to post . Sometimes I'll start writing a reply and then just close the tab because fuck it .

I posted the highlight reel video for you already, right? I forget. MOAR stuff anyway:

Chris Benoit Vs Kane - WWE Raw June 28th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ntLoTQ7b8Cmf5d4NU (private)

Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - WWE Raw April 12th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k51s7Se7gn5uBY5d3i7 (private)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes you did. Now time to enjoy seeing Benoit make Kane submit! 

EDIT: lol, what's with the Smackdown logo on the tron in the first second of the video?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lmao every DVD thread I've been apart of I've ranked 7th right behind funnyfaces. That bastard has been burying me for years 

Is that Benoit/Kane as good as Badd Blood?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nope, but it's close. But I'll object against C2D - Kane tapping out is NOT cool (be it against anyone)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You haven't even been here for a year yet. 

It's not as good as Bad Blood but a pretty good TV match in itself. Odds are really stacked against Benoit because he can only retain by making Kane tap out and will lose the title in any other way (countout, DQ, getting pinned).



ATF said:


> Nope, but it's close. But I'll object against C2D - Kane tapping out is NOT cool (be it against anyone)


Except Benoit.  I'd even accept seeing Undertaker tap out to the Wolverine!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You haven't even been here for a year yet.
> 
> It's not as good as Bad Blood but a pretty good TV match in itself. Odds are really stacked against Benoit because he can only retain by making Kane tap out and will lose the title in any other way (countout, DQ, getting pinned).
> 
> ...



As much as I worship Benoit matches, I can't say I'm in favor of Kane tapping, even to him. I just think a real monster should never ever be booked to tap, be it Taker, Kane, Henry, Vader, Bam Bam, etc. Any of them.

That said, if they had their heart set on making a monster tap, Benoit or maybe Angle are the only guys I would want them to do it with. That's why I hated the finish to MitB 2013, Cena's submission flat out sucks and making Henry tap to it was total bullshit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have no problem with monster tapping out if it's to an intense, submission expert like Benoit who is strongly booked. It makes for a classic moment to look back on years after. But yeah, someone like Del Rio making everybody tap including monsters is just not right. Specially with that finisher which is only devastating if you apply it in MMA.

Finished the Benoit/Kane match and it's awesome. Only a little worse than Bad Blood but fun nonetheless. Great underdog performance by Benoit and I like how desperate he gets when he tries to go for a pin or get Kane counted out. lol'd @ JR snapping halfway through and yelling at Lawler "Shut up about Kane for a minute for God's sake!". :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FFS am I glad its the weekend, school was fucking terrible this week...

hopping on BB 04 right now, sorry I haven't done an 04 review for like a month


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Royal Rumble 1993



*The Beverly Brothers vs. The Steiner Brothers
*
Show is off to a bad start because the Steiners don't have their awesome WCW theme. This was your standard tag match and nothing more. Steiners had a couple of nice suplexes but The Beverly Brothers again did nothing to stand out. They do this impression of an old school heel tag team but they just aren't that interesting. Steiners, come out hot, The Beverly's take control, hot tag, and they go home. The Frankensteiner did look brutal to end the match at least. It wasn't a bad match but very underwhelming. That being said there really aren't many negatives about the match either. 
****


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Shawn Michaels(c) w/Sensational Sherri vs. Marty Jannetty*

They were running an angle at this time where Sherri was upset with Shawn because he used her as a human shield. So she was at ringside but didn't do anything at first. If I'm being honest I was expecting her to screw Jannetty eventually and side with Shawn. That actually didn't happen though. This was a pretty solid match too. Shawn attacked the arm during his control segment and Marty sort of sold it OK. There was some high flying stuff early on but it was the ending that I really enjoyed. It looked like Marty was so close to winning the match. The fact that he hadn't been doing much singles stuff I don't think and didn't have a solid finishing move really help because the crowd was going crazy for all of his false finishes. They've had better matches together but I still thought this was pretty good even though it was slower then I expected and there was a lot of standing around early on in between the high flying.
***3/4 *


*Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The Big Boss Man*

I want to go back to my theory on big man matches. If they work at the right pace they can be these amazing and fun clashes between two giants. However if the pacing is too slow the match gets boring. This match was hovering right around that line the whole time. I was hoping this was going to be fun but worried it would be boring. I won't call it either. 
****


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Razor Ramon vs. Bret "The Hitman" Hart(c)*

I liked this but I didn't love it. A bulk of the match was Hall working the ribs of Hart. If there is a body part that is less interesting to work I don't know what it is. It's not like a limb because there is only so much selling Bret could do. Bret did work the comeback really well though. What I love about it was that it was a gradual process. Razor controlled most of the match and Hart would get these brief spurts of offense in from time to time to break up the pace. I thought the ending was a little out of nowhere but it was satisfying and consistent with how Bret was only getting on offense for short periods of time. 
*****


*The Royal Rumble Match:*

Backlund and Flair starting out the match was pretty cool. In fact there were a lot of fun match ups early on the in the match because you had Flair, Backlund, DiBiase, and Lawler all mixing it up within the first few minutes of the match. These four guys early on along with Genichiro Tenryu made it easier to deal with the dead weight like Papa Shango (who lasted for like 30 seconds) and Max Moon. Also Flair knew he was on his way out (since his last WWF match was with Mr. Perfect the next night) so he gave less fucks than normal which led to two of the funniest face plants that I've ever seen him do. The first 10 entrants was great, like I was ready to say this was one of my favorite Rumbles ever. Then came Giant Gonzalez.

He came in an eliminated the Undertaker and sucked all the momentum out of the match. All of the good workers, minus Backlund I guess, were out of the match and what followed was one of the worst 2nd half Rumbles that you can imagine. There was no star power at all. Like all of the potential winners were eliminated in the first half of the match except for Yokozuna. Him and Savage had a great encounter as they were the last two but it wasn't enough to make up for all the crap from before. That and the ending made Savage look like and idiot and was just ridiculous. Seriously, there are 2 people left in the Rumble and you go for a cover? Then Yokozuna kicks out and sends him over the top rope. Terrible finish to a great encounter between them. The rating here reflects how fun the start was and Savage's great babyface performance at the end.
***1/2 *​

This wasn't exactly the best show. It just came across as very unexciting.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Going to watch No Mercy '08 again, late today. Looking forward to Jericho-Michaels, of course. HHH-Hardy and Show-Taker are both decent. Should be good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The last time I watched that ladder match I was extremely unsatisfied with it

might need a rewatch


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm thinking about buying that Best of MSG DVD, on the basis of this thread's recommendation of those Backlund + Slaughter matches. Hope ya'll aren't steering me wrong!


Trish/Mickie from WM22 was good. The hot crowd helped, and there were some cool moves. I still think that AJ/Kaitlyn at Payback was probably the better match. Felt more cohesive.

I will say that Mickie does crazy much better than AJ does, from this little bit I've seen. Probably because I feel that Mickie adds a more whimisical vibe to it, whereas AJ's "crazy" just feels much more one-note. Probably doesn't help that I've seen a lot more of AJ's brand of crazy. I swear, every time I put in something from a PPV from 2012, AJ's there, somehow getting involved. Doesn't matter if it's Bryan I'm watching, Punk, Dolph, or fuckin' Cena. It's absurd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AJ is shit. Mickie is a million times better than her in every way possible.

Just watched that 8 man tag CAL uploaded as well. So much fun to be had in that one. And also discovered that it takes place in Chicago so you can add one more classic that Chicago got to host. Also finished uploading it to YT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ best evolution tag of the bunch imo, and the bunches are :banderas (better then the orignal shield matches}


ahh I see what I will be watch tonite


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Benoit vs. Kane at Bad Blood '04 has to be Kane's best match in his career. Just a glorious David vs. Goliath battle. Great underdog babyface performance from Benoit with a smart presence of mind to turn the Crossface into a roll-up for the win. Also a pretty good monster heel performance from Kane who kept coming back. Remember having very low expectations for this match, especially because I wanted Benoit vs. Michaels or Benoit vs. Triple H, but this turned out to be match of the night! Much better than the actual main event...


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I have no problem with monster tapping out if it's to an intense, submission expert like Benoit who is strongly booked. It makes for a classic moment to look back on years after. But yeah, someone like Del Rio making everybody tap including monsters is just not right. *Specially with that finisher which is only devastating if you apply it in MMA.*


:allen1

I don't understand your logic - the cross-arm breaker/juji gatame is, like, an actual thing. It's devastating because it's legit. Guys have used it in wrestling, and as a finisher, for decades and decades. 

Maybe you mean it doesn't _look_ devastating? If so, imo, it's more a problem of the selling of the move. It's not a finisher you ought to "sit" in and sell from. Cross-arm breakers, when performed in MMA, Judo, Hapkido, etc. are "tap or snap" - it's not like a Figure Four or Headlock - once you have it placed, you can snap a guy's arm with very little pressure. In JustJoel's _Perfect Wrestling_, clutching the hands, rolling to your side in attempt to "stack" the opponent, or keeping your elbow turned is the position you sell from, and not after it's been locked in. Once it's locked, you're done. It's not about how big your muscles are, or how much "fight" you have; you're not going to pass out because of the pain (at least before your arm is broken), and you can't much fight once it's in because you can literally snap/sprain your own arm throwing yourself about.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

just finished Orton/Benjamin on BB 04, dear lord that held up, fantastic

Kane/Benoit will hold up, haven't seen HBK/HHH before, not looking forward to it :allen1


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

why ? its just a tad below the mania match in quality, some believe its better


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> :allen1
> 
> I don't understand your logic - the cross-arm breaker/juji gatame is, like, an actual thing. It's devastating because it's legit. Guys have used it in wrestling, and as a finisher, for decades and decades.
> 
> Maybe you mean it doesn't _look_ devastating? If so, imo, it's more a problem of the selling of the move. It's not a finisher you ought to "sit" in and sell from. Cross-arm breakers, when performed in MMA, Judo, Hapkido, etc. are "tap or snap" - it's not like a Figure Four or Headlock - once you have it placed, you can snap a guy's arm with very little pressure. In JustJoel's _Perfect Wrestling_, clutching the hands, rolling to your side in attempt to "stack" the opponent, or keeping your elbow turned is the position you sell from, and not after it's been locked in. Once it's locked, you're done. It's not about how big your muscles are, or how much "fight" you have; you're not going to pass out because of the pain (at least before your arm is broken), and you can't much fight once it's in because you can literally snap/sprain your own arm throwing yourself about.


I already know it's a legitimate submission hold that can snap the arm, but in wrestling it looks so weak. They just got the arm between the leg and whoever is in the hold has so much space to free themselves including two legs and one arm.



SKINS25 said:


> why ? its just a tad below the mania match in quality, some believe its better


Which match? He's talking about the cell match between HBK and HHH.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The HIAC match? You people shit on that all day :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Doesn't mean you should. If you can, enjoy it 

I don't hate that HIAC match tbh. Their 3SoH and LMS matches were far more horrifiying disasters.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shelton Benjamin Vs HHH - WWE Raw March 29th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4V7XxVHPyk4az5d9qE (private)

Benoit, Jericho & Edge Vs Evolution - WWE Raw August 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3CQ3qE6a1kcKI5daxq (private)

Rock and Orton segment - WWE Raw June 21st 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1BXJ1EgzUyTJv5d9Sz (private)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's all of them, right? You're probably thinking "Finally that's over and done with!" 

On another note, this is the first time I see a high quality video of Benoit wearing the black tights with white and green outline on the stripes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, that be all of them. Now back to finishing my game where I blow up Kofi, Miz, Chavo and Barrett . Just added a collision event so when I shoot them they blow up and an explosion animation happens :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

O :ti thought you were talking about benoit/hhh/hbk BL 04


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

nah man, gave that match ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

(Y) yea I rate it about the same

I watched the flair/y2j/benoit highlight reel + flair/benoit and benoit/henry, :lol there were so many chops flair's chest started bleeding. Both matches were very good, I'm amazed how much I loved Old man flair in-ring, He may have been the best worker during that era outside benoit/eddie


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Adore that Shelton/Game match. Could very well be my Raw TV MOTY. Only thing I can think of that comes close is the Evolution 8 man w/ Foley, Benjamin, Benoit and HBK. But I'm not as high on the 6 man elimination vs. the 3 Canadians as most people are, watched it a few weeks ago and thought it was disappointing.

Edit: SHIT, behind Orton/Benoit rematch, obv.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I already know it's a legitimate submission hold that can snap the arm, but in wrestling it looks so weak. They just got the arm between the leg and whoever is in the hold has so much space to free themselves including two legs and one arm.


Don't hate the maneuver, hate the guys executing the maneuver:genius

A well sold cross-arm breaker is an awesome spot - so many things you can do when it's sold properly. Like the cinematic shot of a guy clutching his hands together, desperate to hold on. And then there's kicking a guy's clutched hands apart to take control, or to the body/head if he tries to stack. A variety of pins, and of course the infamous Power Bomb Escape. 

The worst submissions for me are ones where there's really nowhere to go - the only transitions are to the ropes or "powering out."


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Don't hate the maneuver, hate the guys executing the maneuver:genius
> 
> A well sold cross-arm breaker is an awesome spot - so many things you can do when it's sold properly. Like the cinematic shot of a guy clutching his hands together, desperate to hold on. And then there's kicking a guy's clutched hands apart to take control, or to the body/head if he tries to stack. A variety of pins, and of course the infamous Power Bomb Escape.
> 
> The worst submissions for me are ones where there's really nowhere to go - the only transitions are to the ropes or "powering out."




I agree with you 10000%. I was just making this argument several pages ago, and everyone disagreed, it applies to the cross arm breaker but also a lot of other submissions. I hate when a guy locks his finishing submission in fully and the other guy just sits in it to "add drama" before tapping out. I wish to god more people would turn the struggle into getting the submission locked in into the drawn out part "adding drama", then when the guy actually gets the submission in the other should tap. It just makes things seem so much more legit and real. I know for 100% certainty if Daniel Bryan really put the LeBell lock on me fully, I'd tap in seconds and so would everyone else. Otherwise he could just rip your shoulder out of its socket or worse fuck your neck up permanently.Having someone resist tapping to it for 20,30,40 seconds just seems stupid to me. Just make the struggle for control over the arm the drama, when he locks that shit in for real it should be over. The only submissions that should allow for a struggle after being locked in are like the sleeper or the cobra clutch, ones that restrict blood flow and cause you to pass out, because those don't cause guys to tap or black out immediately in real life either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, almost forgot SD was on today. Just downloaded it. First match :mark:. Nothing special or anything, just :mark: on paper, and it didn't suck or anything so yey .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Will skip SD for this week because absolutely nothing worth watching happens on the show.

That Rock/Orton segment is so golden once Orton interrupts Rock. Rock embarrassing Coach for the hundredth time never ceases to make me laugh. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So that means no Orton match on SD? Awesome :mark:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Bad Blood 2004 review 

HBK/HHH MATCH OF DA DECADE :ti

Match #1: La resistance vs Edge and Chris Benoit 
*
Benoit pulling double duty? FUCK YES! I already know that his match with Kane is going to be fucking awesome so I hope he can pull out two good matches in one night. So yeah looking forward to this even though there in the ring with some subpar talent in la resistance. Edge starts out, well, this is a bummer as Benoit is so much better than Edge. Oh nice an early tag and the WHC is in! Pretty solid tag match so far, lots of energy and Benoit and Edge are carrying the match pretty well it seems. match gets a little slow in the beginning with a long ass rest hold but it picks back up quickly after only like 5 minutes. Benoit is tagged in again and the match starts to pick up real steam. In the end Conway is about to tap to the crossface when Kane shows up and causes a DQ. Solid opener here, but nothing insanely special. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #2: Chris Jericho vs Tyson Tomko 
*
BOO! Tomko sucks, but if anyone can get a good match out of him its Jericho, so this could easily go either way, but hopefully it’s kept short. Trish is managing Tomko :mark:, this makes everything so much better. Tomko is a freak, if only he could wrestle, certainly has the look. Match is surprisingly quick paced, was expecting a slow worked match because thats what Tomko seems to do, but this is shockingly not that bad, Jericho the GOAT is doing a pretty awesome carry job right now. I would say that big Ty is holding his own as well, nothing GREAT, but solid nonetheless. Starts to slow down a bit towards the latter part of the match but I'm really not too bored, big surprise. Oh wait Tomko just did a bear hug, only Lesnar can entertain me with that hold it seems. Trih took a pretty nasty bump here too and Jericho wins a surprisingly OK match, not too shabby Y2J, carrying fucking Tyson Tomko to a decent match. **1/2
*
CAL SCALE: 1

Match #3: Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin *

:mark: remember this being AWESOME, and it’s a Benjamin so no doubt it’s awesome. Now, can it top the Jericho match at BL 05? I hope so, but I can’t remember too much about this. Orton cuts a promo but I skipped it because I like this match too much. Benjamin starts the match off with a :mark: worthy dropkick, and then an awesome baseball slide. Really fast paced match, as you would expect from two young guys basically in their prime. Orton is getting some really great heat here, and this is holding up tremendously right now. Hey, Flair is here! Just watched the RR 92 the other day, easily the GOAT rumble won by the GOAT wrestler. anyways the match started getting dull but now its heating up again, Ric must have like a GOAT hotspot whenever hes arounf 8*D. As much as I like Randy during this time he tried to use a ton of rest holds and made the match a little slower than it could have been, but its still GREAT. I also like how it gets a good amount of time, because its not a spotfest, but a match that needs time to build. Shelton putting Flair in the figure four was so fucking awesome possibly my favorite part of the match, so much :mark:. wish Shelton won, but he would go on to have like a 7 month title reign so its no biggie. Still, this was awesome. ****1/4 
*
CAL SCALE: 6*

A scene with Matt Hardy and Lita making out plays, kinda awkward now :ti

*Match #4: Gail Kim vs Trish Stratus vs Lita vs Victoria *

This sounds good on paper, but I’m gonna skip it. NO 
*
CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: Eugene vs Coach
*
NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #6: Kane vs Chris Benoit 
*
Now we’re talking! I remember this being AWESOME, easily the best match in the career of Kane, let’s hope it holds up. Saw a toothless agression sign in the crowd, got a good laugh out of that, even if I've heard so many times before. God I could watch Benoit just chop his opponents the entire match and still would be fantastic, those chops are so beutiful. Kane dominates early on, as he should, every David vs Goliath match should have the bigger guy start out ahead. Really solid match even as it just starts, Benoit of course is great in it but Kane is defenitly holding his own in there. Only negative thing I can really find about this is that although most of the time this is an extremely enjoyable match, it has some dull points, but I still love the fuck out of it. Benoit beutifully sold the chokeslam, the crowd for sure thought he won that, great nearfall. The ending was good, dont mind kane not tapping out as it still made Benoit look strong, so its no big deal. This was great, think Orton/Benjmain might be better though, not sure. *****1/4

CAL SCALE: 6

Match #7: HHH vs HBK HIAC match
*
Alright looks like I’m in for the long haul here, not looking forward to it because apparently its super boring but I might as well watch it eventually, if I don’t like it then fuck it, never bothering with It again. And we're off, wait, they're just staring at each other, FUCK YOU GUYS WE DONT CARE ABOUT STARING! I'm sure some mark would come in with a "DAT PSYCOLOGY" comment about now, but I dont see any soo fuck them. FINALLY they start, that was like, a good 2 minutes they just looked at each other. Shawn is bleeding from his arm already it seems, really? C'mon shawn, your frail, but not THAT frail. Not really that much to say so far, its just your standard match so far, except this is going to go ridiculously long judging that my video is like 60% done :lol. Some CHOPS are had, very fascinating. 

So this isn't that bad so far, its not BORING, just nothing special at all so far. I can see why some like this I guess, but then again I'm only like 8 minutes in, probably gets a lot worse. Crowd is super into it, IDK why because again, it feels like your standard brawl, but WHATEVER. Suprisingly zero long rest holds so far, I feared this would have a ridiculous amount, thank god not. Uh oh, Trips is busted open, I still have like 45 minutes left though, so this will likely get stupid bloody. A chair is brought into the ring, then haitch is slamming HBK against the cell and ring posts...AT THE SAME TIME! fpalm at King and JR overselling this match like bitches, its nothing special dudes, just calm down and stop calling it the GOAT match. 

As much as I'm shitting on this, it isn't that bad, I just like shitting on matches sometimes, especially when they involve Hunter, as hes pretty funny to make fun of. The match really shouldn't have gottn this much time however, theres about 20 minutes left in the match and I feel like if this ended in the next 5-10 minutes, it would be a good match length. HBK hits Hunter with a chair at one point that looked stiff AS FUCK. Now hes really bleeding, not Eddie/JBL level of course, but he sure has a crimson mask, so does Shawn, but HHH is really covered. 

We then get Tables and ladders in addition to the chairs, well, at least they're trying to freshen things up. They go through a table, that was pretty awesome, first thing that wasn't the sameold brawling in a long time. I thought it was interesting that in this whole match they never escaped the confines of the cell, would think that evetually they would get out, guess not. 
The Ending wasn't special, thought it was quite anticlimactic, opinion on the match is meh, nothing too special but not too bad. Average score for an average match that got way too much time. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2*

*FINAL CAL SCALE: 15

CURRENT 2004 MOTY: HHH vs Chris Benoit vs HBK(WM 20)

CURRENT 2004 PPV RANKINGS
1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: Wrestlemania XX (20)
4: Bad Blood(15)
5: Judgment day(9.5) 
6: Royal Rumble (8)
*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FLUX said:


> I wish I had access to more CANDICE besides PWG. She tears it up everytime and her alliance with Joey is just all sorts of great. Marked like a bitch when he made the save at BOLA (was it BOLA, can't remember). There NEEDS to be a Candice/Cole or Candice/Steen match soon. Oh my lord. Her adopting some of Human Tornado's schtick puts a smile on my face everytime I see it, whether it be the pimp slap or the dance-kick-low blow thing in the corner.
> 
> Yeah, I don't care about the majority of these indie hacks coming in to PWG. Get rid of Ciampa, Elgin, ACH and Fox. Let Avalon, Rosas and Goodtime feature a bit more, even if it's just in the openers with other So-Cal guys like B Boy, Mack and Cage. Where in the hell did The Cutlers go btw? And Bonham? And Gatson? None of them were OMGAMAZEBALLS but I'll take any of them over Ciampa. :side: Also, NEED MORE TJP. Just another example of a guy excelling more than usual thanks to the PWG environment. Wish TNA would either use him or just let him commit 100% to indys.
> 
> But yeah, WWE talk... Gonna watch some more BACKLUND tonight. Probably going to watch the five matches Cal listed yesterday. Can't wait. Might go on a 80's binge for a few das. I'll probably end up resorting to WCW 91-94 and some more DUSTIN though. Either way I win.


Most of her work is seemingly bound to local California indies instead of working more 'major' promotions outside of PWG. It's too bad b/c she's great. Most of the time her chemistry w/men exceeds that w/women - which is another level of interesting - but as long as she'll work PWG, I can't complain. It's magic in every match.

I do miss the local So-Cal talent being more frequent. No idea why the Cutlers went MIA. Certain they're still working, but just upped and vanished in PWG world. NO. Don't get me started on why Super Smash Bros are gone. They don't have to be local talent - they're just too good to not have. Legit continued to give Young Bucks a run for their money as best tag team in the world.



FLUX said:


> From COTC 29?
> 
> Could never, ever get bored of that. Dustin's best match, at least from what I've seen. Watch you/Cal/Cody/Yeah/Other go out, suggest 28 matches and make me look like a tit. Oh well.


tbf, that's a locked up claim. Other one that could rival it the best off the top of my head would be the Bunkhouse Brawl vs Buck @ Spring Stampede '94. Not adding in tag matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its crazy to me how putrid Smackdown is nowadays, I know the past couple years its had a few good matches on there, but its sad how bad it is

Need something to watch


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS25 said:


> Its crazy to me how putrid Smackdown is nowadays, I know the past couple years its had a few good matches on there, but its sad how bad it is
> 
> Need something to watch


Watch something from here:



Spoiler: LINKS



Shelton Benjamin Vs HHH - WWE Raw March 29th 2004avi

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4V7XxVHPyk4az5d9qE (private)

Benoit, Jericho & Edge Vs Evolution - WWE Raw August 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3CQ3qE6a1kcKI5daxq (private)

Rock and Orton segment - WWE Raw June 21st 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1BXJ1EgzUyTJv5d9Sz (private)

Chris Benoit Vs Kane - WWE Raw June 28th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ntLoTQ7b8Cmf5d4NU (private)

Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - WWE Raw April 12th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k51s7Se7gn5uBY5d3i7 (private)

Highlight Reel with Benoit & Flair + Henry Vs Benoit - Raw February 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2dyVp3DakkRTj5cNp8 (private)

Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - Raw June 14th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40LAuV2HbSQjs5cM44 (private)

Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw February 9th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7bT45kPaDbEyu5cLhj (private)

Edge & Chris Benoit Vs La Resistance - Raw May 31st 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3od9BiromV3ae51fUb (Private)

Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton - Raw June 7th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5N1lLOTFzK0sc51fu3 (Private)

Edge & Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton & Batista - Raw May 17th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4Hm8kdgTlqqre50aRC (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw May 3rd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ULkUkyoDP1mA50agQ (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw February 16th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kuirLH6QHGxxiV4WfsF (Private)

Randy Orton Vs RVD - Raw January 12th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5U6cCtecMLXdW4WeA5 (Private)

Triple H Vs Edge Vs Chris Benoit - Raw November 29th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5cOPWGFf4CIQv4WdQg (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - WHC Match - Raw August 16th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k23LarpwQG5mvT4W6i4 (Private)

Shawn Michaels vs Venom - TWA 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2PDhaGG3tUhpu4T6YU (Private)

The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - Last Man Standing - Cyber Sunday 2008

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kLgYDzON7hELq14QzOS (Private)

CZW_ROH - Team ROH vs Team CZW - The 100th Show

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4kGuiJScj2TWI4Q1GJ (Private)

Joe vs. Punk III

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7eG0OCaljmhkt4PYoc (Private)

Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - ROH Glory By Honor VI Night 2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/keTj0PXoULmNOA4PM70 (Private)

Cody Rhodes & Goldust Vs The Shield Vs The Usos - Hell in a Cell 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7peorzOZIUgUp4PHBl (Private)

Goldust Vs Seth Rollins - WWE Main Event 23.10.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2uM6XOe1NHnST4OCmJ (Private)

Gilbert Melendez Vs Diego Sanchez - UFC 166

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k26A99GSZfJdyX4NCwI (Private)

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Vladimir Kovlov & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 08.09.2009

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k25bMA4KDK3bQN4N9ee (Private)

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7GwJAIEA6R5fb4MIjJ (Private)

Impact 4.13.2006 - Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7MOkPzONCzNxL4MHGF (Private)

Goldust Vs Sheamus - wwe.superstars.2009.08.13

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7kiO46lJjKgD64MHu3 (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II - July15-12

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3jRtwpIWU51DI4MHep (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW TV - Nov6-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kzxHU4gA5yW2zW4MGoG (Private)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 19.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4H8o2dmwt03nr4MFL8 (Private)

Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kZR862mqgGdeXe4MFlv (Private)

Sami Zayn Vs Jack Swagger - WWE.NXT.2013.9.4.HDTV

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/ks58nUYOcx6Xsq4MF3V (Private)

Sami.Zayn.vs.Antonio.Cesaro.2.Out.Of.3.Falls.Match.720p.(from 2013-08-21.NXT)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5d7Frtu679mEs4LWFA (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Raw 14 October 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7EkZ9CETAUp1i4LWf1 (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Battleground 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kdPVwbTfC28BtB4LVxV (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Triple H - Iron Man Match - WWE Raw July 26th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4uGbg91R8alIV4Ktiu (Private)

The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 04/09/2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4LZRH02Lko6Xl4KhjX (Private)

John Cena vs. CM Punk_ Raw, Feb. 25, 2013 (Full-Length Match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6qIm66LHeDRvu4xq1B (Private)

Regal & Finlay Vs Hardy & Gunner SD June 16 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kmKoEvKRDF95r44q35D (Private)

William Regal Vs Kassuis Ohno - NXT April 11th 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6IcZhWpO1ovAG3YaSR (Private)

The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nurnberg Germany 08.11.2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66b627YjNUJ673VyRC (Private)

Cena Vs Umaga Raw July 17th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj9dd_cena-vs-umaga-raw-july-17th-2006_sport

Cena Vs Shelton Raw July 10th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj970_cena-vs-shelton-raw-july-10th-2006_sport

Piper Story (Funny story from a legends of wrestling roundtable)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxu6hk_piper-story_sport

Finlay Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 09.03.2007

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2y8khvvZHfJ7V3OaDW

The Shield - Smackdown 18.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1wigayEocztdP3JP6w (Private)

Damien Sandow & Antonio Cesaro Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 16.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40j4sJy4tuRnO3JvwI (Private)

Team Hell No & Dr Shelby - Raw 14.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3Ujo7PUTylQGo3J269 (Private)

Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Sheamus & Randy Orton - Smackdown 04.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1mHP3NbZDkyZS3ISrV (Private)

CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kaX2WNpbJJPq6s3ISg3 (Private)

John Cena Vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4E1rKKACxspxV3IRXZ (Private)

Devon Vs Joseph Park - TNA Genesis 13/01/2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3EmJCuv7f1cC03IQmZ (Private)

The Big Show Vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - Smackdown 11.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/keFHQZ8bHKCpZt3IEBi (Private)

Sheamus Vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 09.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k44l3OiQD9gZht3I6qZ (Private)

Punk & Rock promo 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7zeGj30ihkuzs3HFD6 (Private)

Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Dean malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - WWF Sunday Night Heat April 23rd 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...u-wwf-sunday-night-heat-april-23rd-2000_sport

Scott Steiner Vs Cruiserweights - WCW Nitro Feb 5th 2001

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5kvn_scott-steiner-vs-cruiserweights-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport

HHH Vs Big Show - Raw Feb 13th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport

Triple H Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw Febuary 6th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvuvhw_triple-h-vs-ric-flair-wwe-raw-febuary-6th-2006_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport

Windham Vs Tenryu

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xuty9o_windham-vs-tenryu_sport

Mr Perfect Vs Ronnie Garvin MSG March 1989

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xthl0y_mr-perfect-vs-ronnie-garvin-msg-march-1989_sport

Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal No DQ - WCW Main Event 8.8.93

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo...teven-regal-no-dq-wcw-main-event-8-8-93_sport

Dusty gets distracted (funny comentary)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkxkqh_dusty-gets-distracted_shortfilms

Bret Hart & British Bulldog Vs Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart from 19th October 1994

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbxrwx_bret-hart-british-bulldog-vs-owen-h_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbukoi_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbulcn_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Lesnar meets CM Punk and Mr Kennedy on SD in 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8xmjt_lesnar-meets-cm-punk-and-mr-kennedy_sport

Dean Malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - Smackdown April 6th 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y8nk_dean-malenko-vs-taka-michinoku-smac_sport


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ lol Ive watched a good amount of those the past couple days, sure


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

> Randy Orton Vs RVD - Raw January 12th 2004
> 
> k5U6cCtecMLXdW4WeA5


I second that. 

Also how come the second Team Canada vs Evolution match is from Spike TV as opposed to Sky Sports?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> I second that.
> 
> Also how come the second Team Canada vs Evolution match is from Spike TV as opposed to Sky Sports?


Fuck knows . Maybe a decent Sky Sports version doesn't exist or something lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

someone should watch Orton/Shelton from BB 04..

Gave it ****1/4 on my review(on the last page) and it REALLY impressed me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'M GONNA WATCH THE ROH VS CZW MATCH RIGHT NOW

Too excited b/c I don't own it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll watch the bryan/morishima on there, never seen one and want too bad


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd search for their first two matches before you watch that one. fyi point to get why that match is 'more' awesome.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Its crazy to me how putrid Smackdown is nowadays, I know the past couple years its had a few good matches on there, but its sad how bad it is
> 
> Need something to watch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You could have pitched him something much better from Okada, Ibushi, & the DDT promotion as a whole.

Watch Campsite Wrestling.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I'd search for their first two matches before you watch that one. fyi point to get why that match is 'more' awesome.


first match @ MMII is here
the blowoff match (the fourth match) is here


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Man Up?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


>


lol I watched this yesterday actually, good stuff, damn man you watched true detective one time and already are rocking a new avi 



HayleySabin said:


> You could have pitched him something much better from Okada, Ibushi, & the DDT promotion as a whole.
> 
> Watch Campsite Wrestling.


o and I cant find those other bryan/morrishima anywhere



bigbuxxx said:


> first match @ MMII is here
> the blowoff match (the fourth match) is here


Thanks man looked everywhere for these


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rising Above '07 match is still out there too.

There's five of their matches, Skins.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> No Man Up?


i have it. just not uploaded on yt. can no longer post long vids on that account and too lazy to chop them up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Have to find it online. People must see the match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

(Y) thanks for the heads up, I'm already 12 mins into the one Cal has so I'll just finish it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So is NM 07 actually really good? I have all of the 07 shows downloaded so was gonna watch it


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Have to find it online. People must see the match.


uploading Man Up and Rising Above...stay tuned for links.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't find Danielson vs Jimmy Jacobs from Unscripted III anymore. 



> uploading Man Up and Rising Above...stay tuned for links.


:mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was just gonna say I have all the Danielson/Morishima matches on my PC to upload, but seems bigbuxxx has got it covered .


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> You could have pitched him something much better from Okada, Ibushi, & the DDT promotion as a whole.
> 
> Watch Campsite Wrestling.


Surely. Can't throw him the best bones out this early as he first needs to get warmed up with non WWE Wrestling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

can someone link me to the ROH vs CZW match Cody mentioned, sounds :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guessing he meant this from my post:

CZW_ROH - Team ROH vs Team CZW - The 100th Show

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4kGuiJScj2TWI4Q1GJ (Private)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

thanks :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> Surely. Can't throw him the best bones out this early as he first needs to get warmed up with non WWE Wrestling.


You have to have his mind blown from the start. You have to.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


> Surely. Can't throw him the best bones out this early as he first needs to get warmed up with non WWE Wrestling.


Yes I'd actually prefer this way, work myself up dont want to see the TOPS just yet


Edit: ^^^ broooooother :homer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't skip the match I just posted tho.

Fat Elvis Hashimoto. _(I saw that posted atm and had to say it b/c it's true & hilarious. HASH)_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is that the match where William Regal works over Shinya Hashimoto's nose?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Danielson vs Morishima - Man Up
Danielson vs Morishima - Rising Above 2007

While uploading those I watched HHH vs Benoit from No Mercy 2000. What a match. ****1/2+. Love everything about it from the beginning to the end.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So, that CZW vs ROH match was fucking insane, THAT CROWD :banderas. checking out these Regal and Danielson matches now,


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

CZW vs ROH happened in a cage of death match a bit after that 100th ann. match. On par or better than the latter.  .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is that the match where William Regal works over Shinya Hashimoto's nose?


You know it.



bigbuxxx said:


> Danielson vs Morishima - Man Up
> Danielson vs Morishima - Rising Above 2007


Rising Above!

I got Man Up, but everyone who doesn't - THAT is the best match they had. (imo..) Adore it.



SMITTY said:


> So, that CZW vs ROH match was fucking insane, THAT CROWD :banderas. checking out these Regal and Danielson matches now,


White hot. Molten, even. ROH was the best promotion in the world for a good few years. Absolutely.



bigbuxxx said:


> CZW vs ROH happened in a cage of death match a bit after that 100th ann. match. On par or better than the latter.  .


I need to watch 'em back to back.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Danielson/Shima :mark:

One of my favorite sets of matches ever.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched the man up one, that was fucking awesome, loved the length too, not too long, not too short


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just checked out that match Cody linked w/ Regal, pretty good, liked how the match was stuctured, I have a notepad of japansese wrestlers I want to watch more of


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Danielson vs. Morishima is amazing. The big man vs. little man dynamic worked so well with this series and told great stories (especially Man Up 2007 with Danielson's eye)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched Bryan vs. Miz vs. Morrison from HIAC 2010 for the first time. I actually thought it was a good bit of fun, even though it flowed awkwardly at a few points. Some fun spots and submissions in this match, and it really made me miss John Morrison (not sure if that's a popular opinion) :vince7

Gonna check out Danielson vs. Morishima now. Haven't seen those in forever. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I completely miss Morrison. One of my favorites from his time in the company.

I like the HIAC '10 match but the flow is definitely really weird.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We all miss Morrison except for maybe Cal and Yeah because they're weird. Guy didn't do anything wrong in the ring in all honesty. Of course, he wasn't a storyteller on the level of an Eddie Guerrero or anything like that, but he was so easy to get behind and loads of fun to watch. Yeah, Morrison needs to come back.

ROH vs. CZW 100th Anniversary: :cesaro :cesaro :cesaro :cesaro :cesaro /5

Bryan vs. Morishina Man Up: :bryan :bryan2 :dazzler :bryan3 :yes /5


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Just watched the Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match from Cal's links. Genuinely thought it was gonna be overrated given the praise I've seen it get but it was rather wonderful. Liked the quick pin from Zayn at the start, then the subsequent Cesaro takeover followed by an unexpected submission fall from a sleeper hold. Cesaro's superplex with Zayn on the apron and Zayn's diving tornado DDT through the ropes are both great. The finish is one of the best in recent memory, with the show of strength then the Swiss uppercut. Zayn sold the neutralizer like a champ too.

One negative note is that Alex Riley is absolute dog shit on commentary. One thing that annoyed me was his insistence that a heated rivalry brings great matches, followed by his example of himself versus The Miz. Fuck off, you nobhead.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Alex Riley is dogshit in ever area. They kept this guy around and fired Chris Masters. Eat a dick, McMahon Inc.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I can only remember his matches with Miz which were exactly how you'd expect. I quite like his theme music, it's just a shame what happened when the music ended.

I wonder if Riley has fans. I can't see how but everyone likes someone a bit shit. I've always been a Billy Gunn fan myself and he's pretty awful.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Pyro is a pretty big Riley fan IIRC.

Thinking of watching one of the Attitude Era PPVs in my DVD collection, since I haven't watched an AE PPV in a while. Trying to go through most of it before THE GROUNDBREAKING OVER THE TOP NETWORK renders my collection useless


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

uploaded CZW vs ROH - Cage of Death for anybody interested.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cage of Death :mark:

Legitimate ***** match for me, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> Just checked out that match Cody linked w/ Regal, pretty good, liked how the match was stuctured, I have a notepad of japansese wrestlers I want to watch more of


It's nearly perfect if you ask me. Unsure of what sticks out that doesn't make it perfect. It's _that_ fabulous.

Who you got written down, chief?



Yeah1993 said:


> Alex Riley is dogshit in ever area. They kept this guy around and fired Chris Masters. Eat a dick, McMahon Inc.


Riley morphed into Miz 2.0. 

Fuck him and his god awful commentary now. I was once on his bandwagon during that time he was relevant. Leave the memories alone comment.



bigbuxxx said:


> uploaded CZW vs ROH - Cage of Death for anybody interested.


I officially love you.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What an hour well spent watching the Cage of Death. Surely the folks who haven't gotten into ROH yet will after watching the ROH/CZW feud. Thanks bigbuxxx.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know a lot who consider that to be the best match the company ever produced. EASILY among most fans' top ten/top five. It's a juggernaut.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Man, I haven't watched any of ROH in quite a while (only Scarlett Bordeaux and Adam Cole are in my watchlist), but I remember that 100th Anniversary match vs. CZW being fucking madness. Recommended for any folk looking for some good ol' fun. Though I do prefer Joe/Punk II and Danielson/Morishima FWH.

To Skins25, if you're looking for Japanese wrestlers, Kenny Omega, Go Shiozaki and KENTA are good starts. 

People here were discussing Alex Riley too? Well, what do you know. The guy was immensely over back in 2011, then fell into deep obscurity. Don't even know what to think of that.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What an hour well spent watching the Cage of Death. Surely the folks who haven't gotten into ROH yet will after watching the ROH/CZW feud. Thanks bigbuxxx.


Happy to post it. It's a match everybody should see. I can't imagine anybody not liking it.



HayleySabin said:


> I know a lot who consider that to be the best match the company ever produced. EASILY among most fans' top ten/top five. It's a juggernaut.


On ROHworld's rate it list, it's #49. I'd put it way higher. For sure in the top 15 and that just speaks to how good some ROH matches were.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

I loved Mysterio/Del Rio from SD. Great back and forth action and it was Rey's best performance in a long time. ***1/4-***1/2, anyone with me?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cage of death :mark:

Looking forward to this


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There is another Del Rio vs Mysterio match on Smackdown? Cool, something to watch tomorrow. I'll probably be w/you EF.



ATF said:


> To Skins25, if you're looking for Japanese wrestlers, Kenny Omega, Go Shiozaki and KENTA are good starts. .


KENTA? lolno


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are a few KENTA matches worth seeing . Specifically this one again Tenryu I keep hearing so much about but haven't watched yet 8*D.

I skipped Rio/Mysterio on SD. Have a hard time caring about Del Rio matches still, regardless of his opponent. Doesn't help that half his WWE career has been spent wrestling Sin Cara and Mysterio (seriously... how many fucking times are they gonna wrestle???), and I'm not fond of any of their matches together .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KENTA :lol . YOU WANT NOAH, WATCH FAT TAK. WOTY for 2007 maybepossiblydunno.

Need to round up all the Danielson/FAT TAK links and watch them one after another, gonna do that NOW. FWIW I'm one of those that consider COD the best match in company history although I haven't watched much of ROH 09-present but I can't imagine much of that topping the bulk of 05-08, especially this match. Crazy how Homicide was that over at COD and in general around that time, never considered him an elite worker or anything.

Dragon/Shima series review coming up in a few hours


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KENTA gets the shit kicked out of him by Tenryu. The only reason why it's good.

KENTA only had appeal w/his great string of ROH matches & stuff that was like vs Tenryu or Morishima.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Exactly the ROH stuff is what makes me highlight him. :

EDIT: Folks, Rey/ADR from SD is indeed pretty good and a fast-paced action fest. Not exactly the best match they had together, sure, but Rey looked the absolute best since at least the match w/Cara vs Hell No last year. Though I just :lmao at ADR's downfall going as far as him getting jobber entrances. About ***1/4 for the match is fair.

Also, maybe tonight, I'll kick off my 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA match countdown...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are the dates of the Miroshima/Danielsen matches? I do have two (Mayhem and Final Battle).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can I just say that, while recounting everything I've been seeing on these last few weeks, all of the early WM's were mostly DUD-fests? Added with the modern day DUD matches, my list of DUD WM matches can be a big list by itself. Jesus fucking Christ.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania has the most DUDs of any major show in history, probably by a wide, wide margin.

TIS why it's kinda overrated .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's nearly perfect if you ask me. Unsure of what sticks out that doesn't make it perfect. It's _that_ fabulous.
> 
> Who you got written down, chief?


eh so far :
-Morrshima
-Nakamura
-Kawda
-Nagata
-Hashimoto



Ive seen some KENTA matches, they all can fuck off


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II *
_The first match of the series and it's great, obviously. There literally isn't one pretty thing in this match, everything is stiff, manly and brutal. From Danielson's kicks, to Fat Tek's punches, to Dragon's forearms and to Shima's disgusting lariats. If you know going in to this match that Danielson's left eye gets destroyed, then you'll realise the exact blow it happens and it's NARSTY. If Bryan wasn't atleast an 8.5 on the manliness scale before this match (which he easily was) then he most definitely was after this match, because even after the eye-obliterating strike, he still took and absorbed every bit of punishment Takeshi gave to him, and all of said punishment was directed to the injured eye. FUCKING MANLINESS. It's also amazing how much of a good near fall/false finish Danielson's small package is, that fact that he built that up to be a legit and believable finish, even to a man the caliber/credibility of Shima, is a testament to how good he is and how well he was booked. _


*Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Man Up*
:mark: _Holy fuck. This is a masterpiece - Cody is right, this is a much better match than MMII. I love how this is a lot more competitive and a lot less Morishima-dominated. Works in two ways in that it makes Danielson look like a wily student of the game, always learning from his mistakes (avoiding the sunset flip sit down squashy thing, properly pulling off the top rope back superplex, changing his tactics of not going for the legs) as well as building up Tak's frustrations which eventually leads him to attackin g the injured eye - Something he vowed before the match he wouldn't do, to prove that he really is the greatest ROH champion. The moment he does, however, is fantastic. He couldn't put him away with a devastating lariat and two back drop drivers, so he just fucking DESTROYS the eye and he gets NUCLEAT HEAT. Unbelievable. _


*Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Glory By Honor VI Night II*
_This is by far the hardest i've seen Tak throw down and it's fucking great, in a sick, twisted and morbid kind of way. Bryan's intensity is fantastic and the way this match panned out put Danielson over immensely. The beatdown he took was crazy so for him to even manage to get himself disqualified is mental, but for him to come back, look strong and then get disqualified in such a WTF kind of way is great. He took some disgusting spills (The BDD on the floor out of nowhere, Shima knocking him off the apron in to the barricade) and it really built him up as an underdog. Loved this. Also :lol @ him punking out McGuinness and the crowd popping. The post match promo is hilarious as well - "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and in this case a ball for a ball - My eyeball for your testicle" "NOW GET OUT OF MY FACE BECKY BAYLESS" :lmao_


*Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Rising Above*
_A mugging, a mauling, a raping... Call it what you wish, but it was entertaining. Loved Shima throwing the table at Danielson just like he had done to him @ GBH. The match, just like the others, is structured in a way that both men look like complete badasses whilst still telling the story of Shima gaining retribution for what happened at GBH and Danielson still trying to not only get more evenge on Tak, but also get that elusive victory over him. Despite this only being under ten minutes, this match (more than any so far, IMO) encapsulates and showcases the hatred these two have for each other. Really sets up the blowoff match which would take place almost a year later. Good stuff._


*Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Final Battle 2008*
_This is arguably my favourite blowoff match ever, especially after watching all of the matches one after the other. The emotion invested (not only by me, but the live fans also) really does speak volumes on how well handled both men were, as well as this feud in general. I adore how they used the chain, almost trying to one up one another with it, trying to be more of a sicker bastard than the other. A phenomenal end to a phenomenal feud between two of the best workers North America has seen this century. One of ROH's better feuds, if not it's best, IMO._

*My personal rankings of the matches:*
Man Up
Final Battle
Manhattan Mayhem II
Glory By Honor
Rising Above

*Things I noticed*
I forgot how good Takeshi's theme music is :mark:
Bryan's blade job at Final Battle is all shades of awesome
Someone in the WWE needs to adopt the lariat as a finisher, such an underrated move. SOMEONE WHO CAN PERFORM IT PROPERLY

One of the best ways to spend a few hours of your life 




Edit: Need some things to watch later, any suggestions? The more variety the better, doesn't have to be strictly WWE/WCW etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

C2D- Finally watched Cena/Orton NWO 2008. You're right, it is easily the best match these two had together. I really dug the big fight atmosphere and the way they paced/structured the match, especially early on. I don't know why the rest of their matches aren't worked this way. It clocks in around 18-20 minutes, but the times honestly flies by. The finish was smart too, kept Cena strong while also making Orton seem like the smarter of the two. **** seems about right.

I can't decide whether to watch the other 3 Shima/Danielson matches I haven't seen, or go rewatch Hart/Perfect SS/KotR. After Skins was talking about it the other day I've had a desire to rewatch them both and see if they both hold up as the 5-star classics I remembered.


Fuck it, I'm going with Hart/Perfect. I want to watch Danielson/Shima when there aren't any distractions around and I can catch all the nuance and subtlety both guys add.

In fact I think I'll have a Bret Hart day. I'm gonna make my way through the 10 best matches of his career. Before rewatch, this is what I have them at:

10 Best Hitman Matches:

1. Bret vs Austin Submission Match WM13 *****
2. Bret vs Owen WM10 *****
3. Bret vs Perfect KotR 1993 *****
4. Bret vs Perfect SS 1991 *****
5. Canadien Stampede 10 Man Tag *****
6. Bret vs Austin SVS 1996 ****3/4
7. Bret vs Owen Cage Match SS 1994 ****1/2
8. Bret vs Davey Boy Seasons Beatings IYH ****1/2
9. Bret vs Diesel SVS 1995 ****1/2
10. Bret vs Bam Bam KotR 1993 ****1/2

That's not including the classics with Owen at White Plains, Diesel at the Rumble, Hakushi at IYH, or ANY of the tremendous Hart Foundation tags. Outside of the Nature Boy, I seriously doubt any wrestlers top 10 matches is better than the Hitmans.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

DO IT !, well I have to rewatch KOTR myself one of these days but it would be very very hard topping ss 91 for me. Outside of mania w/ scsa and owen and maybe that kidd (not sure) its Bret's best match IMO, hell maybe both mens best

I could never get into that orton/cena, take it off almost always, the I quit is firmly the best of their infamous series IMO


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> C2D- Finally watched Cena/Orton NWO 2008. You're right, it is easily the best match these two had together. I really dug the big fight atmosphere and the way they paced/structured the match, especially early on. I don't know why the rest of their matches aren't worked this way. It clocks in around 18-20 minutes, but the times honestly flies by. The finish was smart too, kept Cena strong while also making Orton seem like the smarter of the two. **** seems about right.
> 
> I can't decide whether to watch the other 3 Shima/Danielson matches I haven't seen, or go rewatch Hart/Perfect SS/KotR. After Skins was talking about it the other day I've had a desire to rewatch them both and see if they both hold up as the 5-star classics I remembered.
> 
> ...


Surprised that the Benoit/Hart match from Nitro isn't on that list, it's easily better than Hart/Diesel and Hart/Bam Bam


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Benoit/Hart is average at best, IMO. Seems very empty and kinda' nothing, lack of substance. I get that it was an Owen tribute match but still.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Surprised that the Benoit/Hart match from Nitro isn't on that list, it's easily better than Hart/Diesel and Hart/Bam Bam



I worship both Benoit AND Bret matches, but even I can't justify putting that match that high. I thought it was good but never great, if that makes sense. I love submission wrestling when it's done well, but for all the emotion both guys had to be feeling in that match, they never really showed it. It just never clicked for me. At any rate, Bret/Diesel SVS 1995 is a masterpiece. I love how vicious Bret got in that match. Bret/Bam Bam I can understand some not being as high on it as I am, but it's always been a personal favorite of mine. Just a classic big man/little man story done in the best way possible. Bret's comeback in the end is wonderful, but the bulk of Bam Bams control segment is why I love it so much. What a great monster heel beat down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> 10 Best Hitman Matches:
> 
> 1. Bret vs Austin Submission Match WM13 *****
> 2. Bret vs Owen WM10 *****
> ...


My ratings for those:

1. Bret vs Austin Submission Match WM13 *****
2. Bret vs Owen WM10 ****3/4
3. Bret vs Perfect KotR 1993 *****
4. Bret vs Perfect SS 1991 *****
5. Canadien Stampede 10 Man Tag ****
6. Bret vs Austin SVS 1996 *****
7. Bret vs Owen Cage Match SS 1994 **
8. Bret vs Davey Boy Seasons Beatings IYH ***1/2
9. Bret vs Diesel SVS 1995 ****1/2
10. Bret vs Bam Bam KotR 1993 ***1/4

Owen at White Plains - ****
Diesel at the Rumble - ****1/2
Hakushi at IYH - ***1/2

And probably the highest rated HF tag I can think of would be around ***3/4. His top 10 is still high end, but Flair is definitely ahead, Undertaker, maybe HBK, possibly Benoit, Steamboat is a contender, Danielson, and probably even Steve Austin. Oh and Backlund could probably compete too. While I don't have any of his matches at *****, his ****1/2+ consistency could likely provide him with a better top 10 overall. And probs some other guys I'm forgetting . And Bret is still pretty great lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I rewatched Bret/Benoit the other day and I have to say it didn't hold up that well. It's still a good match but I no longer think of it as highly or as a classic anymore. It just came across as plain and them going through the motions. The emotions they must have felt was not seen on their work but I guess that was Bret's thing to always come across as just that. Shame they wasted a spot on it in Benoit's DVD when they could've included the Fully Loaded match with Rock or either of the Austin or Lesnar matches on Smackdown. Or even the Power Trip tag.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I agree with you 10000%. I was just making this argument several pages ago, and everyone disagreed, it applies to the cross arm breaker but also a lot of other submissions. I hate when a guy locks his finishing submission in fully and the other guy just sits in it to "add drama" before tapping out. I wish to god more people would turn the struggle into getting the submission locked in into the drawn out part "adding drama", then when the guy actually gets the submission in the other should tap. It just makes things seem so much more legit and real. I know for 100% certainty if Daniel Bryan really put the LeBell lock on me fully, I'd tap in seconds and so would everyone else. Otherwise he could just rip your shoulder out of its socket or worse fuck your neck up permanently.Having someone resist tapping to it for 20,30,40 seconds just seems stupid to me. Just make the struggle for control over the arm the drama, when he locks that shit in for real it should be over. The only submissions that should allow for a struggle after being locked in are like the sleeper or the cobra clutch, ones that restrict blood flow and cause you to pass out, because those don't cause guys to tap or black out immediately in real life either.


I mostly agree - I can give leeway to sleepers, certain "stretches", or certain finishers which require "wrenching" to increase the intensity of the hold. The CAB doesn't have any of that - and I was struggling to think of another submission like it - because the hold applies pressure to bone, and not tendon or muscle. Once the arm is extended, it's over - your elbow simply doesn't bend that way. Watch an MMA fight and you see that all of the struggling or "selling" occurs *before* the arm is extended. Once it is, the tap out is immediate, no matter how big the guy is or how much 'heart' he has.

It can seem a bit peevey, but wrestling is supposed to mirror a real fight, and a submission like the CAB has a much more direct line to the real world than say a Sharpshooter, and should be treated like it imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I made a top 10 bret list awhile ago for someone (was it in this thread ?) and besides a couple I had the WACKIEST list ever soo idk, his matches fluctuate with me all the time, sometimes I hate them and find them borefest and the other time I enjoy them

cant be asked to recreate that list, you may want to search to find it, I know the top 5 would be :

scsa mania
owen mania
perfect ss 91
10 man tag
kidd raw

IDK so 2-5 are interchangeable, but ss 91 might be #2


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Outside of the Nature Boy, I seriously doubt any wrestlers top 10 matches is better than the Hitmans.


urotrollface: seriously though, Bryan Danielson. Some would probably argue HBK to but I haven't seen enough of him to say that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

WWE's SuperBowl has hosted a total of 286 matches. Almost 300. However, about 1/3rd of them sucked. Shame. Still, WrestleMania is a major festival in wrestling history, one of the most historied ones at that. And with this year being the 30th edition, it's time to see what was the best and worst of WM.

PART 1

(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9









285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21









284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27









283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15









282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20









281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26









280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26









279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15









278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25









277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16









276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2









275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8









274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6









273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28









272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27









271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23









270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24









269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22









268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15









267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2









266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2









265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6









264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5









263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Bushwackers, WM 5









262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10









261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5







*​

List so far:


Spoiler: WM countdown



286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at how terrible so many Wrestlemania matches are. Out of the first sixteen Manias, I only remotely liked two of them (3 and 10). Even then, both of those shows had shit main events and only two or three good matches. That's one of many reasons why WMX7 is so awesome. It was the beginning of a period where Wrestlemania was filled with classics.

So I guess our ROH talk ends now? unk3 And I wanted to talk about how awesome JAMES GIBSON was/is/will always be.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

This match just gets better and better on each watch. Match starts off with them trading strikes, then they take the match into high gear by flying all over the damn ring. Incredible stuff. Super Calo vs Psicosis from the same show is also great despite how short it is. Impressive how they're able to make something great in what little they're given.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

YAY DUDs


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> My ratings for those:
> 
> 1. Bret vs Austin Submission Match WM13 *****
> 2. Bret vs Owen WM10 ****3/4
> ...



Undertaker probably has as good a top 10, I'll give you that. It's all opinion, so I can understand how you cannot like the Seasons Beatings and Bam Bam matches as much as I do, but damn you really didn't like the Summerslam cage match with Owen did you? I know it's not a bloody struggle like a cage match is supposed to be, but I absolutely loved how different they made that match. They built the entire thing around the escape, which I felt fit the characters perfectly, and at least for me, they kept me on the edge of my seat the entire time. Thought it was brilliant. Outside of the Flair/Trips TT cage, it's probably my favorite WWE cage match. 

That Canadien Stampede 10 man is my favorite tag match ever. I don't know the general concensus on here, but I thought it was absolutely perfect.

I'm probably alone in loving the Bret/Hakushi match as much as I do, so I can't argue you're rating, though I have it around ****1/4. I'm a total sucker for the classic face in peril story Bret told in most his matches, and I love his firey comebacks.

There is also the Bret/1-2-3 Kid match from Raw which is spectacular and probably deserves a spot in his top 10.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at how terrible so many Wrestlemania matches are. Out of the first sixteen Manias, I only remotely liked two of them (3 and 10). Even then, both of those shows had shit main events and only two or three good matches. That's one of many reasons why WMX7 is so awesome. It was the beginning of a period where Wrestlemania was filled with classics.


Believe me, I was kicking myself in the nuts to try to understand how could the WWF/E have had SO MUCH utter feces in their flagship show's history. And the list of DUD's still goes on from there. :woolcock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Owen cage match is just so damn boring for me. Lasts way too long and is just "try and escape the cage" followed by "in ring action" repeated until the finish. For their type of feud and the wrestlers they are, yeah it makes sense, but doesn't make it any less boring .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

"Try to escape the cage" + "in ring action" = THE POINT OF CAGE MATCHES. 8*D

I'm so surprised nobody in here has ever shat on brilliant stuff like Bret/Austin or the Taker/Shawn saga - or have they? :hmm: Well I know Pyro disliked Taker/Shawn 25, but he dislikes pretty much everything so there's that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow, ATF. 286 matches? Some of those :lmao :lmao

Honestly think Bossman/Taker should be a bit higher. Bossman getting lynched earns points. 

Hogan in the Bank contract at Mania 9 :lmao 

Also, on the Bret/Owen Cage match: It is long, and repetitive, but I really enjoyed that one. Bret/Perfect at Summerslam 91 is amazing. Terrific babyface performance from Bret. Bret ripping Perfect's singlet makes me :lol for some reason.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> "Try to escape the cage" + "in ring action" = THE POINT OF CAGE MATCHES. 8*D
> 
> I'm so surprised nobody in here has ever shat on brilliant stuff like Bret/Austin or the Taker/Shawn saga - or have they? :hmm: Well I know Pyro disliked Taker/Shawn 25, but he dislikes pretty much everything so there's that.


I don't dislike Taker/Shawn 25/26 per se, but I think they're extremely overrated, they're great but not amazing or GOATC, IMO. I think the same to Rock/Austin 17 as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins doesn't think too highly of the SvS 96 Bret/Austin match, and Cody thinks the IYH: 14 match sucked. I used to dislike that match too, but the last time I watched it, everything clicked. Bret's hybrid brawler/technical style in 1997 :lenny.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

FLUX said:


> I don't dislike Taker/Shawn 25/26 per se, but I think they're extremely overrated, they're great but not amazing or GOATC, IMO. I think the same to Rock/Austin 17 as well.


26 gives me the feels. ***** all the way. Rock/Austin is great for me also. Jim Ross did some of the best work of his career in that match. Same goes for the Rock/Austin Mania 19 match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FF is correct, I dont like bret/scsa svs 96, have tried to get into more than a few times but never can


Harts. bros cage is one of the most boring matches ever, hell it might be more boring than bret/davey ss 92 and I think that the most boring


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> "Try to escape the cage" + "in ring action" = THE POINT OF CAGE MATCHES. 8*D
> 
> I'm so surprised nobody in here has ever shat on brilliant stuff like Bret/Austin or the Taker/Shawn saga - or have they? :hmm: Well I know Pyro disliked Taker/Shawn 25, but he dislikes pretty much everything so there's that.


According to current day WWE the point of a cage match is to ask the ref to open the door or pin. :side:

Also, DID SOMEONE SAY JAMES GIBSON?! :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret/Austin (SVS '96) is as much of a masterpeice as their Mania match IMO.

Also, 'Hogan In The Bank'


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched ATF's favorite Benoit/Angle match - 2/3 falls at Judgment Day. Enjoyed it a lot more this time around. Great back and forth action, specially the ladder match which held up much better this time. Plus the interference is not as bad when you know about the follow-up on the same night.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

YES. Finally their true showdown getting the respect it deserves. Don't get why everyone shits on it, it's so much grittier, more interesting and more hard-fought than every of their other matches, and it's also smarter than most (except WM 17 and maybe Backlash 01).

Okay, PART 2 of my 30 Years Of Mania countdown will go tomorrow, though I am considering to do it still even tonight already. I mean, it's STILL a big DUD list so there's that. _Oh ooooh, oh ooooh, WRESTLEMANIA_ 8*D


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't know if I _hate_ any of the Angle vs. Benoit (AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE I'M AN ANGLE FAN). I definitely don't like their Unforgiven 02 and RR 03 matches nearly as much as I used to, but I wouldn't say they're shit (I remember the days when I thought the Angle/Benoit Rumble match was GOAT  ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle/Benoit from the Rumble is still a classic to me but I don't consider it the greatest match or anything like that. It's four and a half rather than 5 now. It's surpass by Brock's SummerSlam and Smackdown matches with both participants now for 2003 MOTY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BROCK has MOTY's with anyone. In every year. :brock

Except 2004 - when he stopped giving a fuck that is.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Eddie/Lesnar tho. I know people on here aren't as high as I am on it but it's still one of my favorite matches.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Undertaker vs Angle Smackdown 2003 is tied with Brock vs Angle Ironman for MOTY. Both are magnificent.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The ending to Bork vs. Eddie is without a doubt top 5 in my biggest markout moments ever. Not just wrestling, but sports, real life, and even GIRLZ. :vince2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brye said:


> Eddie/Lesnar tho. I know people on here aren't as high as I am on it but it's still one of my favorite matches.


Forgot about that. Still not 04 MOTY imo - but it's only second to one match (WM 20 Triple Threat).

So yeah, BROCK :brock


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Incredible how BROCK just returns on a limited schedule and has Match Of The Year two years in a row. The man is truly a BEAST. Can't wait to see wait he produces this year even if he's starting off with Big Show. Please give me BROCK/BRYAN!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock vs Orton will be the guaranteed MOTY once it happens next to Brock vs Undertaker. :brock rton2

BROCK is just a special talent. He's got MOTYC for every single year he's wrestled.

2002 - Cell match with Undertaker
2003 - Angle and Benoit matches
2004 - EDDIE
2012 - Cena
2013 - Punk
2014 - Hopefully more to come


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar MOTY:

02 - MOTY Vs Undertaker HIAC
03 - Nope (Undertaker/Angle SD unless I'm forgetting something. Used to be Vs Angle at SS but I went down on my rating on last watch)
04 - Nope (right now I'd likely go with Eddie/JBL)
'12 - Nope (Punk/Bryan OTL)
'13 - MOTY Vs Punk SS


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

King Cal said:


> Lesnar MOTY:
> 
> 02 - MOTY Vs Undertaker HIAC
> *03 - Nope (Undertaker/Angle SD* unless I'm forgetting something. Used to be Vs Angle at SS but I went down on my rating on last watch)
> ...


:brock was in the finish so he was involved in another pick for MOTY. 

I'll take BROCK/Orton, BROCK in the Elimination Chamber, and BROCK/Taker, but I want BROCK/Bryan badly. I'm going to be disappointed when they don't do it lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I did say MOTY*C*, though. :brock Out of those, Brock is not in my 2004 MOTY but he is for the other years.

And Cal, I hope you don't mind but I have another 2004 request I forgot to mention: Orton vs Jericho from 5th July. Think you can do that one too?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ripping it now, but I'll probably wait until 2morrow to upload since it'll take me a while and I might wanna go to bed soon .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Brock/Show
EC
Brock/Bryan
Fuck off until June/July
Brock/Bryan II @ Summerslam
Nothing til next year.

My realistic yet hopeful BORK schedule this year. 

Also willing to go out and say if Brock/Show gets more than 10 minutes, it'll be a MOTYC and it WONT be completely down to Lesnar. Whether you people like it or not, Big Show is FUCKING GOOD  He also knows this is the biggest match he's had since like... vs. Mayweather probably, so he'll show up. I just hope the booking of the match doesn't fuck with the possibility of it being great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My expectations for a Brock/Bryan match are through the roof. And I'm still confident they'd deliver.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is SD 03 worth a download? Sounds awesome


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Brye said:


> My expectations for a Brock/Bryan match are through the roof. And I'm still confident they'd deliver.


Certainly. With Brock, I've seen that it depends on the opponent. He certainly clicked with Punk, and I would assume he would certainly click with Bryan, given how great he is with just about anybody, in the ring. I would expect great storytelling, given WWE lets them do their thing, and a good mesh in styles, Brock and Bryan.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It doesn't depend on the opponent with Brock, dude has had classics with fucking Big Show

Well, unless the opponent is Bob Holley or Goldberg


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Ripping it now, but I'll probably wait until 2morrow to upload since it'll take me a while and I might wanna go to bed soon .


Nice. 



SMITTY said:


> Is SD 03 worth a download? Sounds awesome


Smackdown in 2003? Damn right it is.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> It doesn't depend on the opponent with Brock, dude has had classics with fucking Big Show
> 
> Well, unless the opponent is Bob Holley or Goldberg


Well, he usually has pretty good matches, though with some, he just didn't click, IMO. Like, as for me, I didn't like his recent matches with HHH, at all.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just started downloading it,  at how long its gonna take

Once I get SD 06 on my comp, I have the three greatest TV years of all time Downloaded (RAW 04 being the other)



RhodesForWHC said:


> Well, he usually has pretty good matches, though with some, he just didn't click, IMO. Like, as for me, I didn't like his recent matches with HHH, at all.


I liked those 

But I basically like 95% of BORK matches so its no suprise

Has anyone ever burned a whole TV year to DVD? thinking about doing this for RAW 04


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know its a pipedream but everyone else here has named the BROCK matches they'd cream over

I'l love a 15-20 min match of BROCK/Ziggler big man/monster vs. little babyface crazed bumper would be :banderas MOTYC


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Lesnar/Sheamus, absolute slugfest, plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> Lesnar/Sheamus, absolute slugfest, plz.


This is my #2 dream match for BROCK after Orton. Not counting Undertaker because it already happened. After those two, it's Batista then Bryan.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Is there a website where more than only 4+ ratings from Meltzer are shown?

I only have this: http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html?year=2013 

but there aren't enough matches from the TNA/WWE/ROH for me and I'd like to check out everything that he gave a 3 or higher

want to watch more matches from each year so I can rank stuff and discuss on here as well


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Has anyone ever burned a whole TV year to DVD? thinking about doing this for RAW 04


Did it with SmackDown 06, managed to fit two episodes a disc. I'll do the same with 2008 ECW eventually.



DoubtGin said:


> Is there a website where more than only 4+ ratings from Meltzer are shown?
> 
> I only have this: http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html?year=2013
> 
> ...


this place has a bunch, starting at ***. Doesn't have everything, obv but has crap loads of WWE and WCW. http://starratingslist.blogspot.com.au/


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Btw, was the crowd actually cheering for Orton when he cashed in his case against Bryan?

Obviously not as amuch as they were cheering for Bryan but even though he turned heel, he didn't get that much heat there imo.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

War Games blu ray!!! :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> This is my #2 dream match for BROCK after Orton. Not counting Undertaker because it already happened. After those two, it's Batista then Bryan.


For some reason I can't see BROCK/Batista as the clash of titans heavyweight battle like it sounds on paper. Considering the way both performers work in my mind there would be some awkward pacing and execution issues with those two I predict. I get the same sense with Batista vs. Orton as well. The star power is there and on paper it looks good but the actual match would surprise me if they turned out quality. Then again, Batista may return with a different mindset to working and the feel he picks up once he gets comfortable in the ring again may have changed. We shall see...


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> It doesn't depend on the opponent with Brock, *dude has had classics with fucking Big Show*
> 
> Well, unless the opponent is Bob Holley or Goldberg


:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

BIG SHOW IS FUCKING GOOD. Geez. I'd trust Show over the mahority of the current roster to have a good match. I'd love for someone to actually try and break down and explain why/how Big Show is a bad worker. Like, what are his flaws? What doesn't he do well? Why is he "a crappy wrestler"? All the while baring in mind he is 7 ft 450 pounds. 

Actually half convinced he's a top 10-15 worker in the company.

Punk
Bryan
Rollins
Cena
Henry
Cesaro
Goldust
Swagger MAYBE
Christian
Taker
Brock
Rey
Sheamus

Two of them are part timers, three of them are always injured (Henry, Christian, Rey), three of them you'd struggle to find three better in the whole of the US (Punk, Bryan, Cesaro).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah Big Show is very good brother top flight


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did it with SmackDown 06, managed to fit two episodes a disc. I'll do the same with 2008 ECW eventually.


So for RAW 04 that would be like...27 discs,not too bad. Think I need to redownload a different RAW 04 torrent as the one I have now is fucking shitty quality. 

Hey peoples, I'm gonna review a DVD tonight, be a PPV or a DVD in general, here are your options

Wrestlemania I 
Wrestlemania II
Wrestlemania III
Wrestlemania IV
Wrestlemania V 

DONT PICK THOSE PLEASE, THEY SUCK

WM 16-19
best of the 90s set
Ladder match DVD
WM 25
WM 26
WM 27
Eddie set
ER 09 
ER 10
MITB 2010
Best of SNME

Summerslam 2007
Bret Hart set(the first and better one)
Best of RAW and SD 2012 
Best of RAW and SD 2011
Hulk Hogan:the complete anthology(this will be a struggle if picked)
WWE Tombstone: The history of the Undertaker 
COTC DVD

Also willing to do a doc

The Rock doc(no thanks)
Austin doc
Road warrior doc
Rise and fall of ECW doc
Punk doc
Foley doc
Orton mini doc
Wrestling with shadows( I really wanna see this)
HBK vs Bret doc

Pick Wisely people, this is a big decision, first response I'll go with

I've never reviewed a doc before, so that should be interesting if it does happen :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, Show is fucking great. I'd take him over Brock, tbh.

edit - some of my SD 06 is shitty quality, plus I had to sacrifice some quality to fit 2 on one disc, but I usually never mind what quality video is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show rules. I just hate when he becomes the big smiley giant who looks like a total fucking goof. But any time they turn him into a monster heel they just feed him to Cena. OVER AND OVER AGAIN .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> eh so far :
> -Morrshima
> -Nakamura
> -Kawda
> ...


Morishima & Kawada :mark:

To chime in something from the Junior Heavyweight ranks for ya, you got to get your Liger fix on. A little something different compared to all the great heavyweights you're going to check out.



FLUX said:


> *Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II *
> _The first match of the series and it's great, obviously. There literally isn't one pretty thing in this match, everything is stiff, manly and brutal. From Danielson's kicks, to Fat Tek's punches, to Dragon's forearms and to Shima's disgusting lariats. If you know going in to this match that Danielson's left eye gets destroyed, then you'll realise the exact blow it happens and it's NARSTY. If Bryan wasn't atleast an 8.5 on the manliness scale before this match (which he easily was) then he most definitely was after this match, because even after the eye-obliterating strike, he still took and absorbed every bit of punishment Takeshi gave to him, and all of said punishment was directed to the injured eye. FUCKING MANLINESS. It's also amazing how much of a good near fall/false finish Danielson's small package is, that fact that he built that up to be a legit and believable finish, even to a man the caliber/credibility of Shima, is a testament to how good he is and how well he was booked. _
> 
> 
> ...


This is terrific.

I like the Final Battle match, but I'm almost confident that it may actually be my "least" favorite by proxy out of the bunch. Rising Above sprint may be below it only b/c it was so short. But I'd have to give it another viewing to see how they rank. Off the top of my head it's like this:

1) Man Up
2) Glory By Honor VI Night Two
3) Manhattan Mayhem II
4/5) Rising Above & Final Battle

I know what I need to do later tonight. ~!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So post that big ole list and none of ya'll fuckers tell me what to watch 

come on guys


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Review Foley's doc.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Review Foley's doc.


(Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> For some reason I can't see BROCK/Batista as the clash of titans heavyweight battle like it sounds on paper. Considering the way both performers work in my mind there would be some awkward pacing and execution issues with those two I predict. I get the same sense with Batista vs. Orton as well. The star power is there and on paper it looks good but the actual match would surprise me if they turned out quality. Then again, Batista may return with a different mindset to working and the feel he picks up once he gets comfortable in the ring again may have changed. We shall see...


I may be biased but I'm not a fan of writing them off too early. I even enjoy the HHH series (cage aside, wasn't a fan of the others) so I'm convinced Brock can make anything work at this point because he's something else.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I'd pay the wrestlemania fee alone just to see Brock destroy The Miz for 20 minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Toss in Kofi, Langston, & The Usos to the slaughter and I'll pay WWE extra.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

I watched all the Morishima/Bryan matches once again, and they never fail to disappoint me. Amazing stuff.

But my question for you people here on this thread is.. Does anyone here have links to Bryan/Nigel matches? Been couple of years since I last saw em.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

NastyYaffa said:


> I watched all the Morishima/Bryan matches once again, and they never fail to disappoint me. Amazing stuff.
> 
> But my question for you people here on this thread is.. Does anyone here have links to Bryan/Nigel matches? Been couple of years since I last saw em.


:mark: I love the Bryan/Nigel matches. Adore the 2/23/08 match and the Unification match for obvious reasons but it's been awhile since I've watched the others.

Don't have links to them though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gah, moving back into school tomorrow, means less time for wrestling. :/

However I'm kind of excited to watch the Rumble next week. Hope Cody has another strong performance because at the rat he's going he can break the eliminations record in like 5 years. Forget where I read that but I believe the math checked out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's up to 12 eliminations out of five Rumbles. A long shot, but it could happen by falling under the radar.

Michaels leads by one over Kane, w/39 & 38, respectively. WWE probably wanted Kane to have a non-wrestling role so he would miss the Rumble this year to try and not tie. 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kane's been so close to that record for a while now. :lmao

They didn't put him in in '12 and I think last year he either had zero or one eliminations.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Gosh, Attitude Era vs Current Era thread is giving me a headache. "You like things from the current era? Well, your opinion is stupid." 

I'm pretty stoked for the Rumble. Be cool to see Punk start it at number one, then win it (I think it's more likely to happen than people think.) In the mean time, I'd like to see Reigns go apeshit in the Rumble match. Show/Lesnar could end up being pretty sick. Cena and Orton have the ability to put on a good match, but we'll see. The gimmick matches between them aren't my favorites, but I enjoy the NWO match. Also if the New Age Outlaws get a tag title match :mark: And if they win :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

New Age Outlaws :lmao

I feel like all the jokes WWF made about WCW's "over the hill" talent have come full circle w/their company.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> *Gosh, Attitude Era vs Current Era thread is giving me a headache. "You like things from the current era? Well, your opinion is stupid." *
> 
> I'm pretty stoked for the Rumble. Be cool to see Punk start it at number one, then win it (I think it's more likely to happen than people think.) In the mean time, I'd like to see Reigns go apeshit in the Rumble match. Show/Lesnar could end up being pretty sick. Cena and Orton have the ability to put on a good match, but we'll see. The gimmick matches between them aren't my favorites, but I enjoy the NWO match. Also if the New Age Outlaws get a tag title match :mark: And if they win :mark:


I'm done with that thread. The level of ignorance in there is worse than anything that the section usually has. It's unbelievable.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm done with that thread. The level of ignorance in there is worse than anything that the section usually has. It's unbelievable.


Thought it got closed earlier. Came back and it was open again. The guy making comparisons like Edge and Christian vs the Hardys to the Usos vs the Real Americans. fpalm


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just finished the Foley doc review, hope you guys enjoy



Spoiler: Mick Foley doc review



For all Mankind: The life and career of Mick Foley review

This is my first taste of reviewing anything other than a bunch of wrestling matches, whether they are on a PPV or on a DVD. But for some reason the idea of a review of a documentary never occurred to me, so I guess now will be the time to start, especially since I want to be a journalist. Well, I have seen this once before but I cannot remember to much about it, I have no idea why but I do remember this being great, possibly up there with CM Punk’s documentary as the best one the WWE has ever put out. I will say that before I start that I might respect Mick Foley more than any other professional wrestler ever. The man went through so much shit to get to where he became. Now obviously Mick Foley never had to go through hunger or abuse(from what I know), but from reading his book, no one thought he could succeed except him and a handful of others. And that’s what makes documentaries like these great, because they tell a story viewers are interested in. Take a look at Hunter’s documentary, he was handed everything, what’s interesting about that? Not much In my opinion, so hopefully this will hold up and one of my favorite wrestlers has a documentary to be proud of. 

We open up with a montage of amazing calls from Mick’s career, awesome intro, really pulls the viewer in from the get go. Of course we start from the beginning, typical stuff besides one scene that blew me away. I was aware that Foley marked out over Snuka on the cage, but the way he described it was incredible. He said people were crying and hugging over a wrestling match, and that is why he wanted to become a pro wrestler, because he wanted to `make people cry and be emotional like that. What I got from that is that Mick Foley really understands what it means to be a pro wrestling fan. It’s Snuka off the cage, its Hogan putting the body slam on Andre, its himself falling off a 15 foot high cage to the floor. The best moments ever are the ones that no one ever forgets, and it was obvious that Foley understood that from the moment he saw it happen right in front of him, and that shows me that he understands pro wrestling. 

Foley talks about the Dude Love videos next. These videos are so awesome to watch, it’s like watching awesome comedy and terrible wrestling at the same time, awesome of course. Dominic Denucci sounds like an absolute boss from what I’ve read. Dude trained Foley AND Shane Douglas, so he must be a great teacher. Can’t believe Foley took like a 9 hour drive from upstate NY to Pittsburgh, that’s dedication, right there. Also what was interesting is the fact that he wrestled for WWF in like 1986, 10 years before he debuted as a full time member, cool factoids there. 

Shane Douglas making an appearance nearly makes this documentary. So does the 10 minute montage of him dropping amazing elbows on people while he was in WCW. I need to check out more of his WCW work, because he was basically in his prime in then, like late 20s to early 30s I think. Foley showed how big of balls he had when he basically said “Sting is going to do this and be happy with it”. These Foley vs Sting matches are supposed to be great I’ve heard, Foley calls it his second favorite match ever behind the HBK match. I loved all the comments on how Foley just “wanted” it in the business of pro wrestling, which I can tell is true. Vader makes an appearance as well, they basically talk about how stiff his work was, which seems so true. I love how they talk about how awesome the Foley vs Vader matches were, the spoke is being spoken here, and I agree so much. 

Foley left WCW I guess after he loses his ear, which is pretty gross but still shows that he is one hell of a badass. Sounds painful as shit of course, but he took that pain like a man. So Foley left WCW, and he went to ECW, hopefully this is where we get some of those amazing promos. Yes! I love watching these promos, because you can tell their fucking real, not scripted, they’re not fake, they’re Foley.They talk about the Foley vs Funk matches from IWA Japan; I need to see those, because they must be great. They sound disgusting, but great nonetheless. 

So now we’re on the WWF part of the documentary, yet we’re only like less than an hour in, they should have done a little more ECW but whatever. They immediately go into talk about the taker feud, I love that KOTR match, so good, glad he praises it. Then they talk about the HBK match, I love that match, easily match of the year for 96. Wish they talked a little more about it but it’s just one match, so it’s no big deal. Is the Mankind/JR review worth a watch? Because it sounds awesome on paper, will need to see it. So then they proceed to talk about the Dude Love and Cactus Jack debuts, I love that HHH/Foley match at the garden, so great, glad they talk about it in depth. 

Also liked how he praised his matches with Austin, because those are awesome, especially their match at Over the Edge. They then get to talking about the cell match. Personally, I think this is up there with HBK vs Bret Hart Iron man as the most overrated match ever, but unlike the latter this is actually pretty decent, I would probably only give it ***3/4 though, maybe go up to 4 stars. But I did like how they talked to current stars like Sheamus and the Miz about their experiences as a fan watching that, because it must have been so fun to watch live. This might be the best job JR has ever done in a match; the commentary was so spot on. I also absolutely love when they interview Funk, he says he was scared, when Funk is scared you know its gone too far, such an awesome perspective. I hate how that match defines Foley though, I think he feels the same way, I could name 5 matches from him better than that, he could too. 

So now they talk about the Mankind character being comical, I had a good chuckle at a few of those Mankind and Vince segments, comedy gold. My favorite might be when their loading Vince on the ambulance and Mick tries to give him a snack :lol, I found that hilarious. And of course the hospital scene is so funny, and the creation of Mr.Socko. We get Survivor Series 1998 talk after this, very good match from Rock and Mankind, but nowhere near the best match between these two, but they screwed us all! I still think that the main event of WM 15 should have been Rock vs Austin vs Foley, with Austin going over of course. Its unfortunate of course, but at least Foley still has a good match with Edge at mania on his resume. 

Foley talks about his book next, and I’ve read the book, and every one of you wrestling fans need to read it, even if you think books are stupid. Its long, but it’s so awesome. HHH says “There’s a lot of pages of that I wrote, I mean, read”. Looks like Hunters trying to take credit for someone else’s credit :banderas. Its awesome that Mick Foley is like…amazing at like everything he does. Comedy, writing, or wrestling, hes awesome no matter what. 
I think it’s funny that originally Mick’s last match was gonna be tagging with Al snow, what a disappointing end to a career 8*D. I think I like the HHH/Foley match more than he does, he said top 5 but for me it’s his best match ever. I need to rewatch their HIAC match though, don’t r remember shit about it. The commissioner was a great role for Foley, some of those skits with Edge and Christian are awesome, especially that one scene at FL 2000 :lol. Also, the moving office was such a fun idea; I wish they would do something like that now, bring a legend like Foley back to be the GM, not Maddox for sure though. 

So overall, this was an amazing documentary, none of the things that I thought were going to drag dragged. I don’t think that this was better than the CM Punk documentary, but it is probably the second best documentary that the WWE has ever put out there. Like I said at the beginning of this, Foley is someone that I immensely respect, the end of the doc talked about how he and his wife have supported charity for so long. Also so interesting that he might be the reason that CM Punk is here in the WWE, apparently he suggested Punk to Vince. So yeah, amazing documentary, basically perfect. I suggest all of you see this classic. *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Notes:

~ Undertaker vs Foley HIAC is legendary for a reason. You dream of scenarios like that in wrestling. It's more than one crazy planned spot & another crazy un-planned spot. It's a hell of a story that will stand the test of time. Increased the legendary status of both Foley & Taker and cemented a match that was already cemented perfectly on it's original outing. Unfuckwithable.

~ Shocked Shane Douglas' appearance here got more of a rise than Vader's.

~ YOU LEAVE AL SNOW ALONE. HE'S GREAT.

~ Triple H is a piece of shit, per usual.

~ I dig the street fight from the Rumble tons, but I'd put a few of Foley's matches vs Undertaker as some of his outright 'best'. Purely from a WWF/WWE standpoint. Getting into the WCW field you have beauties like vs Sting from Beach Blash '92, vs Vader on a few occasions, & the tags vs Nasty Boys.

~ Foley is the coolest cat in all the land. We're copacetic there.

~ Terrific doc. If only some stuff I knew previously was in a tad more limited supply _(he's been around for so long, it's gonna happen)_ but the entire piece was done very well & equally as compelling to boot. Loved the segment completely devoted to his stuff vs Vader. That's so cool. Last thing I expected. One of the best docs the company ever produced, for sure. Up there w/Punker's & both Rise & Fall editions.

Good write-up, chief.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks man, tried not to sound like I was writing a summary of the doc but I think I did good job of combining a review with a summary


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

good write up

really enjoyed that DOC


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Great write up on the Foley doc. 

One of my favorite docs WWE has put out.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Next write up I might do is Wrestling with Shadows( is it good?) or the rise and fall of ECW doc

thanks guys


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wrestling w/Shadows is worth the watch. If only just for the peek into the life of a wrestler. And seeing the aftermath of what went down following the Montreal Screwjob. It's a plus one if you're a Bret Hart fan, of course.

Rise & Fall of ECW is great. Petty detailed and lengthy too. Not EVERYTHING was said, but they covered a lot of ground. That was cool beans. The WCW version is much more neutered _(yet, still good in it's own right too. Slightly biased b/c it's WCW as a topic, but yeah, only saying b/c the ECW one should be appreciated)_


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I wish the WCW one had a little bit more to it. Definitely not bad by any means but there was so much potential for more.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I've seen the ECW one, but I would love to write about it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah the Rise and Fall of WCW doc is neutered, as far as I remember they hardly even mention Sting. 

ECW one is still awesome, very detailed, comprehensive. Good bonus matches too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching WM 17 ATM, Angle/Benoit is on, looking forward to the ME, haven't seen it in ages


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

Part 1

Right, Part 1 was a MAJOR festival of suck. Was Part 2 any better? Well, according to the list, they are better matches...



PART 2

260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25









259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4









258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4









257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10









256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22









255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20









254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2









253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17









252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11









251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9









250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6









249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6









248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21









247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2









246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3









245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5









244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13









243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6









242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1









241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11







*​



Spoiler: WM countdown



(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5
260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25
259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4
258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4
257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10
256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22
255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20
254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2
253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17
252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11
251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9
250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6
249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6
248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21
247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2
246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3
245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5
244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13
243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6
242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1
241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rise & Fall of WCW doc by anyone not funded by WWE would be immense. There are just way too many dirty details they don't want to be said on a documentary of their own. It's too bad, b/c they let ECW talk about their grime & financial woes, among other factors. WWE should have let Turner's company let it all hang out. Bad enough when you have guys like Hogan, Hall, & Bischoff talking from interviews filmed in 2002 - 2003. Glad they gave us something (and it's worth it for the EPIC matches on the DVDs) but they played it about as safe as possible. The Crockett stuff > the WCW stuff on the set. That's for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, as far as match listing goes, Rise and Fall of WCW is one of the best IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MIDNIGHT EXPRESS VS SOUTHERN BOYS

Every other set pales in comparison.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

There's a Smackdown main event strap match between Regal and Austin that is, quite possibly, the greatest 6-minute match I've ever seen from the brand.

Why have I never watched this before?!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a Upload Match Request if i have it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Willing to take a Upload Match Request if i have it.


Long shot but:

Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit WCW Handheld 5/8/93


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Long shot but:
> 
> Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit WCW Handheld 5/8/93


Yeah, i have it on a comp. Ill upload it this week.  Check your rep around Tuesday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Long shot but:
> 
> Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit WCW Handheld 5/8/93


Managed to do it just now : 

*Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit (WCW Handheld 5/8/93)*

Joined In Progress:

http://www.4shared.com/get/Yns2B5fwba/Steven_Regal_vs_Chris_Benoit__.html

_Click on Download button first:_









_Then click on Free Download:_









*By Request


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> There's a Smackdown main event strap match between Regal and Austin that is, quite possibly, the greatest 6-minute match I've ever seen from the brand.
> 
> Why have I never watched this before?!


Total hidden gem. Glad that got to be a match unlike Austin vs Eddie from Smackdown in 2000 where it was nothing more than a tease. I really should talk about Austin more. Said this once before. Obviously, I'm a fan, but really, I feel like I never give him his enough due. Pardon calling Austin vs Angle the best match WWF/WWE ever produced. Suppose that evens out here and there.

Also - holy SHIT @ the Regal vs Benoit upload. Yes please.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Austin/Angle is Top 10 in WWE history imo, but I have two better Austin matches myself. Still, good ol' Kurt will NEVER do better than that. Ever. It pains me to know his stupid "let's play matstyle for the sake of it" style when he can dish out some extremely badass character work like that.

Pretty certain I'll post PART 3 of my countdown maybe even today btw.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

NastyYaffa said:


> But my question for you people here on this thread is.. Does anyone here have links to Bryan/Nigel matches? Been couple of years since I last saw em.


......


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

I hate to be that guy but posting ROH stuff isn't allowed on here anymore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> I really should talk about Austin more. Said this once before. Obviously, I'm a fan, but really, I feel like I never give him his enough due.


That he is. After finishing the Barry Windham career retrospective (and as I currently do one for Regal) I was blown away by just how good Austin actually is. I'd hate to paint things in black and white, but it seems when it comes to the guy the camps either paint him as the hero of the Attitude Era or an over-rated hack when he's so much more than that.

I guess starting off in the WCW midcard circa 1990 (a pool of talent if there ever was one) really helped him, but he started to shine regardless of those he was working with. '94 Austin is breathtakingly good, from the little I've seen of him, and everything else he delivers everything required of him. Might need more introspection from myself, considering the majority of my memories of him involve pointing guns at McMahon, flipping his opponents off and drinking beer on the job.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I need to appreciate more of Austin WCW. Including his Hollywood Blondes stuff too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've always enjoyed Steve Austin-the worker. Yea his style changed when he had the neck injury, but he still had amazing matches and that brawling style really fit his character. I do however think I like his pre-neck injury stuff better. From 1994-1997 he was among the top 2-3 best workers on the planet.

I just rewatched Summerslam 2001 Austin/Angle not that long ago, think I'll watch some Austin/Steamboat. 

Zep-you have any Austin/Steamboat matches from 1994 that you can upload? I've got Bash at the Beach 1994, is that their best match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton Vs Jericho - WWE Raw July 5th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k52MZ4j2t4l52b5dSHW (private)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So I was just thinking about Randy Orton and I think it's safe to say his best opponent ever was Benoit. I then go to thinking who his second best opponent was and most would say Taker, but I think that it COULD POSSIBLY be Rey Mysterio. Obviously you have their matches at NWO and 4/7/06, the latter of which I think is better than any Orton/Taker match and the former is fantastic also. I looked up their history on profightdb and found these two matches, and was wondering if anybody knew if they were any good:

*Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 9/1/05
*Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 11/11/05


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> So I was just thinking about Randy Orton and I think it's safe to say his best opponent ever was Benoit. I then go to thinking who his second best opponent was and most would say Taker, but I think that it COULD POSSIBLY be Rey Mysterio. Obviously you have their matches at NWO and 4/7/06, the latter of which I think is better than any Orton/Taker match and the former is fantastic also. I looked up their history on profightdb and found these two matches, and was wondering if anybody knew if they were any good:
> 
> *Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 9/1/05
> *Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 11/11/05



Benoit is the obvious #1 for Ortons best opponent, and as good as Mystero was I think Undertaker has to be the solid #2. For #3, it's a toss up between Mysterio and Christian for me. I might be alone, but it think the OTL 2011 match was as good as anything Mysterio ever did with Orton, and the Summerslam No DQ match was on the same level as SD and NWO.

Gun to my head? I'd have Christian ahead of Rey, just barely though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nah, Orton nº2 opponent ever - fuck it, nº1 - is EASILY the Big Show 8*D

In all honesty, imo HBK should be in serious consideration too. All of their matches were good in some form - Unforgiven '03, that short match on Raw in '07 (before Backlash iirc), Cyber Sunday '07, the CLASSIC from Survivor Series '07... hell, even their Judgment Day '07 was one of the best storyline squash matches out there. And it helps they had good feuds themselves as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too would probably have Benoit #1, then Undertaker #2, then Christian #3. Rey might actually not be #4 but that would mean me looking into Orton matches and fuck putting much effort into him . I love the NWO 06 match between them, and the SD 06 match is really good, but I'm not as high on that one as everyone else seems to be. NWO > SD 06, and probably every Undertaker match > NWO 06 Rey match. Christian series' top 2 matches > the Rey matches, plus I don't recall any other Orton/Rey match being close to the 2 in 06, so there is that too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw Cal, I will never forget the moment where you "run away from the Shield" and hit your setup table instead (from the WWR making-of video) - you are quite the seller :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> My ratings for those:
> 
> 1. Bret vs Austin Submission Match WM13 *****
> 2. Bret vs Owen WM10 ****3/4
> ...



Just finished my top 12 Bret project, I saved Surivor Series 1996 for last, and man did it hold up. I still think WM 13 gets the nod as the better of the 2, but not by nearly as much as I used to think so. The WM 13 match still gets my vote as the greatest match of all time, beating Taker/Shawn HiaC by the slimmest margin imagineable.

Here are my updated ratings. A lot of things stayed the same, a few went down a bit, and none went up.

1. Bret vs Austin WM 13 *****
2. Bret vs Owen WM 10 *****
3. Bret vs Perfect KotR 93' *****
4. Bret vs Perfect SS 91' *****
5. Bret vs Austin SVS 96' ****3/4
6. Canadian Stampede 10 Man Tag ****3/4
7. Bret vs Diesel SVS 95' ****1/2
8. Bret vs Owen Steel Cage SS 95' ****1/4
9. Bret vs Davey Boy Seasons Beatings IYH ****1/4
10. Bret vs Bam Bam KotR 93' ****1/4
11. Bret vs Diesel RR 96' ****1/4
12. Bret vs Hakushi IYH ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just a question for thought, for me its a match I have watched in a while but put of the reason why is I always want it to stay in :homer regard

But is Hbk/taker HIAC still the GOAT match ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

YES SKINS

you gonna be in the chatbox for the football games today?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Just a question for thought, for me its a match I have watched in a while but put of the reason why is I always want it to stay in :homer regard
> 
> But is Hbk/taker HIAC still the GOAT match ?



It's neck and neck with Bret/Austin WM13 and possibly Flair/Steamboat COTC as the greatest match I've ever seen. I've probably watched that Cell match 10 times and it never ever goes down. I really don't see how it can to be honest. Undertaker brutalizing the cowardly HBK for 30+ minutes in one of the bloodiest wildest matches in WWE ever put on (to that point at least)? Never gonna not blow me away. It's not like the HBK/Razor Ladder match at WM 10 where you need context to remember how revolutionary it was at the time. No, it's still better than any other cell or normal match ever. 100 years from now, I still doubt it's gonna be topped.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I MIGHT have Austin/Angle and War Games 92 over it, I need a rewatch, haven't seen it for couple of years.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Now I want to rewatch the best three HBK/Taker matches :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Btw Cal, I will never forget the moment where you "run away from the Shield" and hit your setup table instead (from the WWR making-of video) - you are quite the seller :lmao


That REALLY fucking hurt . My toenail is still black!!!



SKINS25 said:


> Just a question for thought, for me its a match I have watched in a while but put of the reason why is I always want it to stay in :homer regard
> 
> But is Hbk/taker HIAC still the GOAT match ?


Yep. And still, nothing even remotely comes close. My ***** matches are in a hierarchy, with HIAC at the very top of the pile:

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997


Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997 (this took a BIG jump up the last on last watch)


The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 2001


Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009


Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> YES SKINS
> 
> you gonna be in the chatbox for the football games today?


its just food for thought, and I'm headed out , I should be back at at game start I think

Yea was just a thought, I just asking sorta like the NBA is Michael Jordan the clear cut #1 ? Just asking do you think there were a match tht surpassed them (bret/scsa. Hbk/taker)

My ***** list would be the following iirc

Hbk/taker
Hbk/taker
Punk/cena
Punk/Brock 
Cena/lesnar
War games 92
Flair/steamboat ww92
Scsa/angle
Hart/henning ss91
Eddie/jbl
Hhh/hbk/benoit
Scsa/bret wm 13


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Orton Vs Jericho - WWE Raw July 5th 2004
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k52MZ4j2t4l52b5dSHW (private)


YES!



FLUX said:


> So I was just thinking about Randy Orton and I think it's safe to say his best opponent ever was Benoit. I then go to thinking who his second best opponent was and most would say Taker, but I think that it COULD POSSIBLY be Rey Mysterio. Obviously you have their matches at NWO and 4/7/06, the latter of which I think is better than any Orton/Taker match and the former is fantastic also. I looked up their history on profightdb and found these two matches, and was wondering if anybody knew if they were any good:
> 
> *Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 9/1/05
> *Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - * Smackdown 11/11/05


Both are solid and worth watching. The second one is the better of the two. Still they don't compare to the classics they had in 2006.

As the Orton expert in here, his greatest opponents to me go like this:

1. Benoit
2. Undertaker
3. Christian
4. Mysterio
5. Michaels
6. Edge
7. RVD
8. Cena (might not sound appealing to others but I actually enjoy a good number of their matches)

Don't know about any more because there's those he has hit and miss chemistry with (HHH) and others where he had a classic but they haven't faced off enough times (Foley). There's been flashes of brilliance in some of his work with Jericho and Angle but they haven't wrestled enough to be considered.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Give me the Mysterio series over the Undertaker & Christian bouts any day of the week and twice on Sunday (so twice today. YEAH). Then give me Michaels to form a top five and then I have no sweet fucking clue what I'd put from 6-10 as Orton doesn't really have strong chemistry with many guys (When it comes to guys like Mark Henry; Orton has a few good matches with them but a whole host of unimpressive TV bouts to go along with it).

Greatest match of all time is still the original cell match, you are correct .

As for my top matches EVER? ...... Already posted that list in these threads 78546854 times and I'm trying to stop myself from being redundant so I'll just say that I have like 5-6 five star matches at the moment .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, time for ATF's 30 Years Of WrestleMania Ranking *PART 3*...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just get to the good stuff already. 



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Give me the Mysterio series over the Undertaker & Christian bouts any day of the week and twice on Sunday (so twice today. YEAH). Then give me Michaels to form a top five and then I have no sweet fucking clue what I'd put from 6-10 as Orton doesn't really have strong chemistry with many guys (When it comes to guys like Mark Henry; Orton has a few good matches with them but a whole host of unimpressive TV bouts to go along with it).


I have to ask, what's up with you and your constant flip-flopping of opinion on Orton? One day you say you've enjoyed his work since turning heel then shortly after you come to another thread and say you dislike him. And that's just the most recent example I can think of.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> But is Hbk/taker HIAC still the GOAT match ?


Not even in my top 1000. But seriously, I wouldn't give that match four stars.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

(REDUNDANCY INCOMING) ~ So, basically I grew up loving Orton's work as a young whippersnapper, and I still love it to this day. We all know how he turned into the VIPER and now everybody hates on him and stuff, and I really started to get bored by the guy around 2009-2010ish up until the recent heel turn. Where the whole flip-flopping thing comes from is my feelings on Orton's character versus how I feel about his performances in the ring. I'll give the guy credit where credit is due; he had a good performance against Goldust and a few good ones against Bryan, but while giving Orton credit I forgot to realize that Goldust & Bryan are two of the best workers in North America. The thing that I like about Orton is that I hate him, which means he's doing his job because I don't hate him enough to stop watching the product altogether, which is a page out of Triple H's book in terms of heat generated both outside and inside of his character.

When I look at Randall I see too different characters; the motivated Randy who has the ability to create great performances when he turns his machismo on, and the Randy Orton that bores me to death. Most of the time it's the latter but every now and then I can see the former in him, making it hard for me to really create a concrete opinion of the guy, making him one of those guys in that "grey area" for me.

As the work changes and the wrestling world moves, so does opinions. For instance, I liked Dolph for a little while and lobbied for him to be face until I realized that he can't be either because A: if he's a heel, he works like a face which makes it nearly impossible to garner mega-heat, & B: He can't be a face due to looking & dressing like a heel, he has the MIZ factor in that he just looks like a punchable douchebag who I (and many others) couldn't possibly ever root for. Then you have a guy like Dean Ambrose who I thought sucked when he first showed up in the E, until I saw him perform with some competent workers like Punk instead of the Langstons/Kingstons of the world, now I see that the guy has some serious, serious potential.

Back to RANDALL though... He's ridiculously talented, one of the most naturally charismatic presences I've ever seen... But I feel he chooses to suck at times mainly because, well... He has HORRIBLE TASTE. The sleeve tattoos? Horrible. The entrance music change? Horrible. The guy has HORRIBLE TASTE .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Back to RANDALL though... He's ridiculously talented, one of the most naturally charismatic presences I've ever seen... But I feel he chooses to suck at times mainly because, well... He has HORRIBLE TASTE. The sleeve tattoos? Horrible. The entrance music change? Horrible. The guy has HORRIBLE TASTE .


That I agree with. The sleeve tattoos were a bad choice but understandable because he wanted to cover up the tribal ones with something more meaningful to him. The change of music was bound to come even though "Burn in My Light" rules the world. But my main problem with his taste is how he ruins his look... seriously, FUCK that awful beard! And when is he going to grow his hair out and stop cutting it? 

Also agree completely on what you said about Ziggler. I thought there would be a change of opinion on him as a face but after the first couple of weeks, I found him as unlikable and bland as before. WWE decided to do some of us a favor and bury the fuck out of him so I thank them and hope they keep it going.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

Part 1
Part 2

You know, one would think that WrestleMania should always be a Concorde moment of wrestling, every year. Even in the earlier years where the WWF themselves didn't quite knew what WrestleMania was yet. But with the number of DUD's that this show's had in its 29-year history, I could make a case for some of the guys who wrestled in it (like Giant Gonzales, Dino Bravo, all those Divas, etc.) to say they actually deserved a place in those cards. How much black can it get for the golden Sunday of WWE - or will it get a little better?


PART 3

240 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WM 4









239 - Money Inc. vs. The Natural Disasters, WM 8









238 - The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzales, WM 9









237 - Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, WM 11









236 - JBL vs. John Cena, WM 21









235 - Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & The Road Dogg, WM 16









234 - Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane, WM 24









233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12









232 - King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones, WM 1









(1/4*)
231 - Rick Martel vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 6









230 - Beth Phoenix & Eve Torres vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos, WM 28









229 - Batista vs. Umaga, WM 24









228 - Paul Orndorff vs. Don Muraco, WM 2









227 - Kane vs. The Great Khali, WM 23









226 - Kerry Von Erich vs. Dino Bravo, WM 7









225 - Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo, WM 6









224 - Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection, WM 6









223 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4









222 - Jake Roberts vs. George Wells, WM 2









221 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, WM 10







*​



Spoiler: WM countdown



(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5
260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25
259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4
258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4
257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10
256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22
255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20
254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2
253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17
252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11
251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9
250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6
249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6
248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21
247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2
246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3
245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5
244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13
243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6
242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1
241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11
240 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WM 4
239 - Money Inc. vs. The Natural Disasters, WM 8
238 - The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzales, WM 9
237 - Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, WM 11
236 - JBL vs. John Cena, WM 21
235 - Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & The Road Dogg, WM 16
234 - Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane, WM 24
233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12
232 - King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones, WM 1
(1/4*)
231 - Rick Martel vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 6
230 - Beth Phoenix & Eve Torres vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos, WM 28
229 - Batista vs. Umaga, WM 24
228 - Paul Orndorff vs. Don Muraco, WM 2
227 - Kane vs. The Great Khali, WM 23
226 - Kerry Von Erich vs. Dino Bravo, WM 7
225 - Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo, WM 6
224 - Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection, WM 6
223 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
222 - Jake Roberts vs. George Wells, WM 2
221 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, WM 10



Yup. WrestleMania has had *54* DUD's in its history. Good God, Vince. fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I find it difficult/impossible to do a 'Top Ten' of something, let alone a top over 200 lol 

Kudos anyways.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

234 is Cal's favorite match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Most of those are definitely not DUDS though :lol

not that they're good, but that last list is mostly like 1/2* stuff IMO

EDIT: didn't see the 1/4* matches, my bad


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12*

A classic that inspired the next decade and beyond for Trips.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Batista vs Umaga was pretty decent, I liked it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I had it at like ** I think 

It wasn't terrible, but it was so dissapointing


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Weren't the crowd cheering for Umaga? lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was one botched Batista Bomb, a bunch of strikes, restholds... and that's it. Just a bunch of nothing for me. A major dissapointment too given how I expected this to be the Lesnar/Goldberg gone right. And I'd expect it again for Henry/Ryback. Still, Batista/Umaga did have decent enough brawling, and William Regal's calling of *UMANGA*, to kick away from the LOLDUD area. And really, it's a shame that this match + the Divas shit (LOLDUD) (I don't count Chavo/Kane as a bad thing, the match itself sucked (LOLDUD), but the moment was awesome and meaningful (shortest title match in WM history)) evened out the AMAZINGNESS of WM 24 

Oh and Smitty, that's maybe because:
1) I'm a little too harsh
2) You're a little too easy to delight
3) You may have not been up to pair of how bad those matches really are

Just saying.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So much for the Regal career retrospective. My graphics card bombed and had to restart the PC. Came to open the document and all the reviews and rankings are all gone. Fuck's sake. :no:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, I think that only the lowest of the low get DUDS from me, not that they're good matches(none you listed are) but I think that only travesty's like Hogan vs Yoko or Lawler vs Cole are true DUDS.

That being said, like 30 matches you listed are still duds in my book


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great stuff once again man, in about 17 days maybe we'll finally be at the good matches .

& agreed on the Ziggler burial, I just hope he's there to bump for guys like Mark Henry when he needs a guy to squash, he's best in that jobber bitch role it seems.

& FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKK RAAAAAH. God Damn .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Smitty, all of that stuff was rightfully DUD. It was horrible garbage that may have been tolerable at a TV show or maybe a lesser PPV, but this is *WrestlefuckingMania* here. What are the matches where you wouldn't give it? I'm really curious to know.

Oh and yeah, we will get to the good stuff. We will. That is, in like, 7 parts from now. Maybe. :


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Can anyone hook me up with a link for Benoit vs Malenko from Spring Stampede 1997? Can't seem to find that match anywhere.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Irrelevant said:


> Can anyone hook me up with a link for Benoit vs Malenko from Spring Stampede 1997? Can't seem to find that match anywhere.


If you can't find a link, lemme know. I may have it to upload.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would make the argument that you didn't assign enough DUDS.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Irrelevant said:


> Can anyone hook me up with a link for Benoit vs Malenko from Spring Stampede 1997? Can't seem to find that match anywhere.







@ 1:10:00


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I would make the argument that you didn't assign enough DUDS.


Yeah. I wish all 286 WM matches were DUD's. Including all Undertaker matches. There are three of them, so yeah. Hell, a Brock Lesnar match made it to the club.

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX to the rescue.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> If you can't find a link, lemme know. I may have it to upload.


Thanks man. :mark:



FLUX said:


> @ 1:10:00


Can't view the video as it's unavailable in my country apparently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I check in abit, I should have it.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Can someone give me a run down of the best PPV's from 2009 to 2013? let's say a top 3 and what should I buy to watch from these years. if i remember correctly backlash 2009 was solid.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Can someone give me a run down of the best PPV's from 2009 to 2013? let's say a top 3 and what should I buy to watch from these years. if i remember correctly backlash 2009 was solid.


Top 3? Extreme Rules 2012, MITB 2011, SummerSlam 2013.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Got Malenko/Benoit. Will upload tomorrow.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

1. MITB 2011
2. Extreme Rules 2012
3. Wrestlemania 26


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished March in my 1997 watch, and the wrestler of the year so far is someone none of you guys will ever guess. #2 is Owen and #3 is Bret, but :lmao at #1.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sid?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Just finished March in my 1997 watch, and the wrestler of the year so far is someone none of you guys will ever guess. #2 is Owen and #3 is Bret, but :lmao at #1.


Funny because I just entered April yesterday and Shawn cut a long shoot promo on Bret which was fun to listen to.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Outside of the box suggestions;

TLC 2010: Loved Cena burying Barrett (literally), loved the fatal four way spotfest, IT HAS MORRISON VERSUS FUCKING SHEAMUS, Miz and Orton actually putting something decent together, & FUCKING MORRISON VERSUS SHEAMUS!

Summerslam 2011: Would maybe be a top 2 show for me.. Opening tag is fun, Henry-Sheamus is great, Bryan drags a very great match out of the completely awful Wade Barrett, Orton & Christian have a great streetfight, & Cena Versus Punk is a fucking classic. Maybe the best PPV since 2009.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

ATF said:


> Top 3? Extreme Rules 2012, MITB 2011, SummerSlam 2013.


Thanks. what about a top 3 from each year? would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2009

Royal Rumble
Wrestlemania 
Backlash 

2010

Mania'
MITB
TLC

2011

MITB
SS
TLC

2012

ER
Wrestlemania 
TLC(?)

2013

SS
MITB
Payback

This gives me an idea, gonna rank EVERY PG era PPV EVER, so that means from the Bash 2008-TLC 2013


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll watch Royal Rumble 2002. Havnt seen it in years, looking forward to Jericho/Rock and Flair/McMahon too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

AND EDGE/REGAL 

That match is :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The build up video for Flair/Vince, Vince dressing up as Ric. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vince/Flair or Vince/Hogan, the better?


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Vince/Flair or Vince/Hogan, the better?


Vince/Hogan at mania was good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Vince/Flair or Vince/Hogan, the better?


Well Flair/Vince is good, and Hogan/Vince sucks balls .

My answer is Flair/Vince btw. Gotta make it clear for the slightly less intelligent people (aka HHH fans 8*D) in this thread .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Vince/Flair or Vince/Hogan, the better?


Vince/Hogan by a country mile. Top 10 WM match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol would love to see your top 10 then

@Zep hogan/vince was pretty good, I'd go w/ naitch/vince IMO


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Thanks. what about a top 3 from each year? would be greatly appreciated!


I suppose you mean from PG Era onwards (because that era isn't just from 2009):

Mid 2008 (TGAB forward):
1 - No Mercy
2 - SummerSlam
3 - Armageddon

2009:
1 - SummerSlam
2 - Royal Rumble
3 - Survivor Series

2010:
1 - WrestleMania 26
2 - Money In The Bank
3 - TLC

2011:
1 - Money In The Bank
2 - SummerSlam
3 - Extreme Rules

2012:
1 - Extreme Rules
2 - WrestleMania 28
3 - TLC

2013:
1 - SummerSlam
2 - Money In The Bank
3 - Payback


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> I've always enjoyed Steve Austin-the worker. Yea his style changed when he had the neck injury, but he still had amazing matches and that brawling style really fit his character.


Hell he peaked in 2001, multiple years after the neck injury, having the best year in WWE history.



Cactus Jack said:


> Zep-you have any Austin/Steamboat matches from 1994 that you can upload? I've got Bash at the Beach 1994, is that their best match?


I actually thought that was their third best match. Best was either Clash XX or Clash 17 in 1992. That was admittedly a match I didn't really get at first, but it's a No DQ match with no real 'No-DQ-ish' stuff, so you have to look past that. I had Clash XX as the best on the WCW list but IDK if I'd agree with that. I could very well think BATB is #1. Whowhatevershit my point is the other one(s) should be watched too. It's 1992 WCW, man. Pinnacle of fucking television or something.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody (or anyone), give me a series of matches to watch that nobody in this thread has ever reviewed before. Preferably a tag series on the level of Rockers/Brainbusters or a light heavyweight one like Eddie/Rey, but lesser known.

1997 is a funny year. The upper card is one of the most stacked ever, but the lower card is so terrible and a complete waste of time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cody (or anyone), give me a series of matches to watch that nobody in this thread has ever reviewed before. Preferably a tag series on the level of Rockers/Brainbusters or a light heavyweight one like Eddie/Rey, but lesser known.


Has anybody reviewed the entire Sabu/Taz series here? Or the entire Rey/Chavo series? (Because Chavo, no matter how bland he is, is good in the ring)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tajiri v. Super Crazy.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Miz/Morrison vs. Yang/Moore

Obviously nowhere near the level of Rockers/Busters but fuck it, a handful of matches, all of which are fantastic. Best thing The Miz has ever been a part of.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Better than the NOC 2010 match v. Bryan?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Collectively, yeah sure. No one individual match is better than NOC 10 but there's five or six that are all good, and as a series, that's gotta' mean something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Royal Rumble 2002 result should be voided.

Maven is still out there dammit.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SKINS25 said:


> lol would love to see your top 10 then


Sure, why not:

Steamboat/Savage
Warrior/Hogan
Warrior/Savage
Savage/Flair
Bret/Owen
HBK/Ramon
Rock/Hogan
Vince/Hogan
Benoit/HBK/HHH
HBK/Angle


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Vince/Hogan better than HBK/HHH/Benoit! :cussin:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think he was doing it in date order


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did he forget the greatest match in wrestling history?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> So for RAW 04 that would be like...27 discs,not too bad. Think I need to redownload a different RAW 04 torrent as the one I have now is fucking shitty quality.
> 
> Hey peoples, I'm gonna review a DVD tonight, be a PPV or a DVD in general, here are your options
> 
> ...


willing to take a request from this list again to review, reviewed the Foley doc last night and got a good response so why not


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Invasion PPV from 2001


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vince/Hogan & Rock/Hogan are both FANTASTIC, TBH .

Pretty much like all of Hogan's Wrestlemania matches besides his ones Vs Andre which as we all know are some of the most famous matches in wrestling history.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Hogan is great, love that match.

Shame their second wasn't as good


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did he forget the greatest match in wrestling history?


Although Bret/scsa is :banderas, I think its a tad overrated, lol I have it at ***** if we are talking starz but a lower end one


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

These two, smitty:


> Bret Hart set(the first and better one)
> WWE Tombstone: The history of the Undertaker


Watched Dolph/Orton at NOC '12, and disagree with the negative comments about that match. After watching, I do agree with Meltzer's close to four star rating for that. Doesn't feel like a bunch of moves at all. Felt like it had a real story arc, and built up and built up. Both were pretty much evenly matched the entire time, and it took Orton's final great, "one up", counter (after they both had been outsmarting each other the entire match) to put Ziggler away.

Came off as two guys who had closely studied each other, and I thought it was great in that regard.

I think that Orton's style just may not work for some people, and that's why a match like that gets overlooked or underpraised. Honestly think that if it were two other people doing that exact match, it'd get praised more.

Also really liked Sheamus/Del Rio from NOC '12 too. I'd put that around *** 1/2 - *** 3/4. Del Rio's kicks are a thing of beauty, and I felt that style-wise, those two have a good chemistry together. Sheamus also sold the selling of "almost tapping" quite well.

Punk/Cena from that event was good, but I felt that Punk was doing most of the heavy lifting. One of Punk's better performances from a pure wrestling perspective, and he's always good for the great facial expressions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Night of Champions 2012 was a really good PPV. Every match was good-great.

People actually liked Hogan/Sid and Hogan/Bundy? And which one of you mods is a Patriots fan? :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Invasion PPV from 2001


Alright, never seen so in for a treat, even if its not supposed to be good

I'll get to one of yours lilolme later


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I need some wrestling to watch, havent watched a match in 2 days and these games are p. shitty


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I'm fed up with Football skins as well, PATS 

Watch Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat 3/8/86


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> I need some wrestling to watch, have watched a match in 2 days and these games are p. shitty


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Night of Champions 2012 was a really good PPV. Every match was good-great.


How would you rate The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Sin Cara? Wondering if I should watch that.




SMITTY said:


> Yeah I'm fed up with Football skins as well, PATS
> 
> Watch Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat 3/8/86


skins won't like that.

Did you ever watch HBK/Angle WM 21 in its entirety, skins? I have a feeling you checked out after the way it started off, lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> How would you rate The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Sin Cara? Wondering if I should watch that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually did, I use to love that match if you could believe it, on recent watches I take it off after about 5 mins, Not a fan of heavy-worked mat wrestling matches, and that one is just mindless and just Kurt "spamming" holds. I'm not that high on the vengeance either

That 4 way IC match at NOC is horrid, watch rhodes/sandow vs. rey/cara TLC if you want something like that



What ever happen to your :hbk3 review ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> How would you rate The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Sin Cara? Wondering if I should watch that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I disagree wholeheartedly I think skins will dig Hart/Steamboat. That match is great, not very long (around 10-15 min) and has a great face/heel dynamic + Jimmy Harts antics at ringside are priceless. Definitely worth the watch, Bret is a damn good heel here.


Then again, I begged him for months to watch Flair/Windham BotB 2 because I thought it was like the greatest thing ever and he came away not overly impressed. So what do I know.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just watched it about an hour ago, really dug it (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Miz and Cody (yes Miz) were very good in that NOC 2012 fatal four way, but the match will forever be known for Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio's disappointing interaction. Worth a watch, but I enjoyed the tag title match and the highly underrated Cesaro/Ryder match more.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@ 0:36

I miss Paul London so much  Man needs to take more indy dates. If Paul London is on a show, he'll always be odds on favourite to take the most ridiculous bump of the night.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I disagree wholeheartedly I think skins will dig Hart/Steamboat. That match is great, not very long (around 10-15 min) and has a great face/heel dynamic + Jimmy Harts antics at ringside are priceless. Definitely worth the watch, Bret is a damn good heel here.
> 
> 
> Then again, I begged him for months to watch Flair/Windham BotB 2 because I thought it was like the greatest thing ever and he came away not overly impressed. So what do I know.


He doesn't like mat wrestling. I'd be very surprised if he liked that, especially since Bret didn't even get in much of the way of offense.

I agree with you for your reasoning why it was good (though it's definitely not one of my favorites) , but I'm pretty much positive it wouldn't be 'skins' cup of tea.




SKINS25 said:


> I actually did, I use to love that match if you could believe it, on recent watches I take it off after about 5 mins, Not a fan of heavy-worked mat wrestling matches, and that one is just mindless and just Kurt "spamming" holds. I'm not that high on the vengeance either
> 
> That 4 way IC match at NOC is horrid, watch rhodes/sandow vs. rey/cara TLC if you want something like that
> 
> ...


:sad:

Thanks, will check that out later. Just had this PPV in right now.

lmao, it took me three days to even finish Wrestlemania 22. :lmao I don't know how ya'll knock full reviews out of the park like that, on a regular basis. 

I did end up watching it all, though. 


Really short thoughts:

vs. Diesel at IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies was fun. The leg thing was a bit OTT for me, but it was an enjoyable match.

vs. Foley at IYH: Mind Games was shockingly good. I know everyone praises it, but for some reason I was expecting not to like it all that much. Just from a sheer WRESTLING perspective Foley was great, and the two had a good chemistry. I also didn't mind the ending, mainly because I had always heard it had a shit ending, so I was expecting it. Plus, they were paying no attention to the rules anyway (I swear I actually went back and checked if this was supposed to be a NO DQ's match, lol), so the carnival ending was kind of fitting.

I'd rate it very, very, highly, but it's odd, because it's also a match that I can't really see myself watching again. Like I respect it a lot, but I wouldn't say it's one of my _favorites_. Still, was surprised by how well I thought of it while watching it.

vs. Taker HIAC...will write more about this when I have the time.

vs. HHH at SS '02 was fun, but I felt it could have been epic. Like, it came off as Shawn just wanting to give the crowd a show since this was his first time back, and I get it, but I think there's so much amazing storytelling that could have gone on there instead. I still enjoyed it, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Thanks, will check that out later. Just had this PPV in right now.
> 
> lmao, it took me three days to even finish Wrestlemania 22. :lmao I don't know how ya'll knock full reviews out of the park like that, on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


Yea the diesel match was pretty good, the stealing of the leg was fpalm. Yea the foley/hbk and hbk/taker HIAC are both masterful and there is not that can be said that wasnt sound already about there tops stuff.

Yea hbk/hhh ss 02 is disappointed. My probelm w/ it is it draggs quite about but all there matches do. I try to pimp it as much as I can but I believe their best match was the raw 5/96 one, its actually pretty good


@Cjack yea man couldnt get into it, but really cant get into most of the windham/flair matches besides the 4/11/87 and impromptu match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SKINS WATCH HART/STEAMER

lilolme: Are we thinking of the same match? Because the one I watched(on the Bret set) was't mat based at all

Part one of a project I'm working on will be posted soon, then will start Invasion


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm reallys slow on those, just watched the 2013 MitB match (the WWE Championship one), and wow, like everyone got injured legit there.

Match was really good, ****.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Here's part one of me ranking every PPV in the PG era so far, AKA all these suck dick

Starting Invasion now



Spoiler: Ranking every PPV in the PG era



*Part one *

71- Over the limit 2011

It took a good 10 minutes of debate, but even though this match has an absolute classic WHC match, it is so bad that it deserves the dubious honor of being the worst PPV of the PG era. The main event of this show was a WM 27 rematch between John Cena and The Miz, in an I quit match. No one wanted to see that so no one gave a shit about it and of course the match sucked Donkey balls. Also on the card was a kiss my foot match between Michael Cole an Jerry Lawler and Wade Barrett vs Ezekiel Jackson, and Zeke actually went over. Also to make matters worse, CM Punk was wasted in a match where he teamed with Mason Ryan against Big Show and Kane. Just don’t see this shitstain of a PPV, its so bad its not funny, watch the WHC match and LOOK AWAY. 

70- Fatal four way 2010

Unlike the previous show, this didn’t have a match that was extremely bad(maybe the divas 4 way) but the whole card had a very flat feeling and they’re was basically nothing par a decent Evan Bourne vs Chris Jericho match, and that was for sure MOTN. The two fatal 4 ways were both pretty meh and the rest of the card just felt like filler, which was exactly what this was, a filler show. However, the PPV the month after this was pretty good and underrated IMO

69-Capital Punishment 2011 

Considering this was the PPV right after OTL 2011, you know that must have been a tough period to watch WWE :lol. This PPV had R-Truth in the main event, for the WWE title no less. Do I need to explain more? 2 decent matches in Punk/Mysterio and Christian/Orton(however it’s their worst imo). The rest of the card was just bad, matches like The Miz vs Alex Riley and The Big Show vs ADR don’t need to be on PPV. I cannot remember if Swagger/Bourne was solid but it got very little time and wouldn’t add much to the PPV. As bad as this was, the next two PPVs were awesome. 

68-Elimination Chamber 2012 

The fact that this show had two EC matches, each containing a win by Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, this show still fucking blew. The WWE title chamber was better and had better people, but still wasn’t that good. The WHC chamber had Santino and Khali in it, really? No one wants to see that. The main event of the night saw John Cena and Kane fight in an ambulance match, this sucked and stupidly main evented over the chambers, even if they were subpar, they were better than this. 

67- Royal Rumble 2012

Two Terrible PPVS started the year 2012, and this was a little bit better than EC, but not much better. Daniel Bryan, Mark Henry, and the Big Show fought in a triple threat cage match for the WHC that was boring and tedious. This should have been a singles match without show but whatever. John Cena and Kane fought in another pointless brawl and CM Punk battled Dolph Ziggler to a forgettable WWE title match that disappointed. Sheamus won a disappointing Rumble match which I found pretty boring par the great ending stretch with Y2J, but other than that this whole show pretty much sucked. 

66- TLC 2009

When I first looked at this show, I started watching it immediately, it sounded SO good on paper, the only match I found even remotely entertaining on this show was the McIntyre/Morrison match , which was awesome but given less than 10 minutes IIRC. Easily the worst show of 09 IMO. I was so excited for the Christian/Shelton Benjamin match and damn, it disappointed big time. Cena/Sheamus was meh outside of the surprise ending and the Undertaker and Batista actually had a bad match and had one of the worst endings of all time. The Main event was a TLC match between Jerishow and DX, and it blew fucking shit, probably the worst TLC match ever. This show might be the biggest letdown ever.





Spoiler: list



71- Over the Limit 2011
70-Fatal 4 way 2010
69- Capital Punishment 2011
68-Elimination Chamber 2012
67-Royal Rumble 2012
66-TLC 2009


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Watching Summerslam 2011 right now because it is an awesome and underappreciated show. The opening six man tag is enjoyable and fast paced. Henry/Sheamus is a great slug fest between two beasts. Daniel Bryan leads Wade Barrett to his best match ever in WWE. Orton/Christian No Holds Barred is match of the night for me with Punk/Cena II right behind it. Even the divas shit was passable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Add another match to the list of DUDs:

Ric Flair vs. Jerry Lawler (8/14/82)

My goodness what a disappointment. Nothing happened in this match. Nothing. These two legends managed to bore me worse than Bret and Shawn did at Wrestlemania XII. Whoever structured this match is lower than Vince Russo.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

An early 80s Memphis match between Flair and Lawler is a dud? That doesn't compute. Guess anything's possible now, then.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He's either joking or insane or someone hacked his account. Match doesn't get any time, but is good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> That he is. After finishing the Barry Windham career retrospective (and as I currently do one for Regal) I was blown away by just how good Austin actually is. I'd hate to paint things in black and white, but it seems when it comes to the guy the camps either paint him as the hero of the Attitude Era or an over-rated hack when he's so much more than that.
> 
> I guess starting off in the WCW midcard circa 1990 (a pool of talent if there ever was one) really helped him, but he started to shine regardless of those he was working with. '94 Austin is breathtakingly good, from the little I've seen of him, and everything else he delivers everything required of him. Might need more introspection from myself, considering the majority of my memories of him involve pointing guns at McMahon, flipping his opponents off and drinking beer on the job.


His work in WCW is scary underrated. Or more worrisome on how so many who claim to be fans of his decide to not even bother and only focus on his Attitude Era height & antics. He ideally WAS the staple of their mid-card division for his entire tenure. Middle & upper levels, respectively. Being the cowardly heel looking to make his mark as a Superstar in the wrestling biz, he stole so many moments & matches. Plus, little do some actually know, he was an insane bumper. A total pro in that department. Thunderdome cage from SuperBrawl IV rings true. One spot basically shows why he had knee issues later in his career.

I love Austin pre-WWF. Love him throughout, but gosh. He had to be the definitive flub up that company had. He put it all out there for 'em only to be cast aside. Then the other company sees his worth and the rest is well known history. Other specifics could have come into play, but any company that would have had the nWo, Sting, Goldberg down the line AND Austin given the ball to run w/; yeah, they would have stayed a continued powerhouse.

Only poor outing I can remember from Austin in WCW was vs Rhodes at Starrcade '93. It's a great curve at this rate.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh man I am so with you on Austin/Dustin. Match is balls. Luckily they have Havoc 91 or I would be really stressed that they never had the match hey could have. Match they could have.......?

My mind just jumped to 2001 Austin v. 1994 Dustin. I am so masochistic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would you pitch something that won't happen until we finish our time machine?

I'm still stuck on quantum physics.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did he forget the greatest match in wrestling history?


HBK/Taker HIAC didn't happen at WrestleMania.



SMITTY said:


> Vince/Hogan better than HBK/HHH/Benoit! :cussin:


This down hereˇ



FLUX said:


> I think he was doing it in date order


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Why is Rick Rude so badass?

I was reading Seabs thread about the best of WCW 1992 and I decided to watch a match I had NEVER seen the 30 min ironman match between The ravishing one and the dragon..

What a classic match! I think I got a hard on from it lol. Storytelling was top notch from the bell. Apparently, Rude had injured ribs. Steamboat was ruthless in attacking and for a solid 8 mins, it was a straight up ass whooping by Steamboat. Master selling from Rude as he flukes his way to the first fall. Quickly grabs the second, Gets DQ'D just to hurt steamboat! With half the match over, Rude is up 3-1.

This is where the match goes into all time classic territory. Steamboat fights back to get it to 3-2 then we have what I believe is the first reverse of a tombstone piledriver by flipping the move..It was the struggle that made it even better.

I won't spoil the final segment for those who haven't seen the match (Go watch it now) but suffice to say, it lives up to the hype. Sweat literally pouring off each man. JR and the Body were on point for the match making it feel like a real sporting contest.

Also need to mention that there was no outside interference, or outside the ring action. This was straight up believable wrestling at it's finest.

***** Stars!

Oh and why is Rude so badass? For making me mark out for a one armed pose because he sold the ribs so damn well that's why.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That whole event is worth marking out uncontrollably for.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That WCW 1992 :mark:

Beach Blast, Wrestlewar, Great American Bash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget SUPERBRAWL, chief. Endless love for it all.

WCW 1994 may be the most underrated year in wrestling too. It's really, really top notch as a whole & much more than "just" having Spring Stampede on the calendar.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah, I'm actually realizing that I'm not so familiar about early 90s WCW. seen a handful of matches but nothing substantial. 

In fact, that goes for almost all of WCW. I was always a WWF kid growing up and it didn't help that at times, I didn't have cable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lazyking said:


> Yeah, I'm actually realizing that I'm not so familiar about early 90s WCW. seen a handful of matches but nothing substantial.
> 
> In fact, that goes for almost all of WCW. I was always a WWF kid growing up and it didn't help that at times, I didn't have cable.


Luckily we live in the "everything is available online" age, so you can check out a ton of WCW stuff any time you want .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch only WCW stuff for the rest of the year.

I'll be 100% worthwhile.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

What were the major storylines in WCW going into 1992?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dangerous fucking Alliance baby. :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

One reason I am most looking forward to the WWE Network is watching all the great WCW matches in high quality whenever I want. Think I'll re-watch about of the Saturday Night and Worldwide matches such as the Dangerous Alliance tags, Flair/Steamboat, Rude/Dustin, and so many others. Flair/Pillman I have not watched in a couple years and can't wait to see it again on my TV screen.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

This match is absolutely great. Never gets old. 

Best Mysterio/Guerrero match by far, IMO.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> One reason I am most looking forward to the WWE Network is watching all the great WCW matches in high quality whenever I want. Think I'll re-watch about of the Saturday Night and Worldwide matches such as the Dangerous Alliance tags, Flair/Steamboat, Rude/Dustin, and so many others. Flair/Pillman I have not watched in a couple years and can't wait to see it again on my TV screen.


Not likely that we'll get more WCW shows besides Nitro and the PPVS at lunch. reports are the content being very limited for the network.



RhodesForWHC said:


> This match is absolutely great. Never gets old.
> 
> Best Mysterio/Guerrero match by far, IMO.



This is the WCW match I've seen probably 15 times. Still holds up.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

RhodesForWHC said:


> This match is absolutely great. Never gets old.
> 
> Best Mysterio/Guerrero match by far, IMO.


I have that match "only" at ****, always find it silly when people call it the GOAT WCW match. 

Their best match is the one from SmackDown 2005/6/21, by a country mile.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

The DUD-fest is finally over. But the bad stuff still isn't. LOL.


PART 4

220 - Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown & Test, WM 15









219 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sid, WM 8









218 - Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow vs. Crash Holly, WM 15









217 - The Honky Tonk Man vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 4









216 - Rocky Maivia vs. The Sultan, WM 13









215 - Maven vs. Goldust, WM 18









214 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WM 27









213 - The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan vs. The Godfather & D-Lo Brown, WM 16









212 - Don Muraco vs. Dino Bravo, WM 4









211 - Sid vs. The Undertaker, WM 13









210 - Trish Stratus, John Morrison & Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler & LayCool, WM 27









209 - Greg Valentine vs. Earthquake, WM 7









208 - Mark Henry vs. Ryback, WM 29









207 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Power & Glory, WM 7









(1/2*)
206 - King Kong Bundy, Lord Littlebrooke & Little Tokyo vs. Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver & The Haiti Kid, WM 3









205 - Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel, WM 7









204 - The British Bulldog vs. The Warlord, WM 7









203 - Demolition vs. The Powers Of Pain & Mr. Fuji, WM 5









202 - Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes, WM 3









201 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WM 11







*​


Spoiler: WM countdown



(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5
260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25
259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4
258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4
257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10
256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22
255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20
254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2
253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17
252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11
251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9
250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6
249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6
248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21
247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2
246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3
245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5
244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13
243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6
242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1
241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11
240 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WM 4
239 - Money Inc. vs. The Natural Disasters, WM 8
238 - The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzales, WM 9
237 - Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, WM 11
236 - JBL vs. John Cena, WM 21
235 - Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & The Road Dogg, WM 16
234 - Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane, WM 24
233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12
232 - King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones, WM 1
(1/4*)
231 - Rick Martel vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 6
230 - Beth Phoenix & Eve Torres vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos, WM 28
229 - Batista vs. Umaga, WM 24
228 - Paul Orndorff vs. Don Muraco, WM 2
227 - Kane vs. The Great Khali, WM 23
226 - Kerry Von Erich vs. Dino Bravo, WM 7
225 - Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo, WM 6
224 - Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection, WM 6
223 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
222 - Jake Roberts vs. George Wells, WM 2
221 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, WM 10
220 - Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown & Test, WM 15
219 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sid, WM 18
218 - Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow vs. Crash Holly, WM 15
217 - The Honky Tonk Man vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 4
216 - Rocky Maivia vs. The Sultan, WM 13
215 - Maven vs. Goldust, WM 8
214 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WM 27
213 - The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan vs. The Godfather & D-Lo Brown, WM 16
212 - Don Muraco vs. Dino Bravo, WM 4
211 - Sid vs. The Undertaker, WM 13
210 - Trish Stratus, John Morrison & Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler & LayCool, WM 27
209 - Greg Valentine vs. Earthquake, WM 7
208 - Mark Henry vs. Ryback, WM 29
207 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Power & Glory, WM 7
(1/2*)
206 - King Kong Bundy, Lord Littlebrooke & Little Tokyo vs. Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver & The Haiti Kid, WM 3
205 - Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel, WM 7
204 - The British Bulldog vs. The Warlord, WM 7
203 - Demolition vs. The Powers Of Pain, WM 5
202 - Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes, WM 3
201 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WM 11


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Disagree with Ryback/Henry being 1/4* but besides that the list seems accurate so far

Pretty shocked that Cena/Rock WM 29 hasn't been listed yet


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol why are you doing this to yourself ? If you MUST do a mania list do like top 50-100 or something ?


Been watching some smackdown 2012 gems


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe he's a masochist. :vince

I personally could never go through and watch a ton of shitty Mania matches, but more power to you


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NO. I must expose to the audiences alike what WrestleMania actually was. Call me your martyr, people - you're welcome 

Smitty, I sorta hated Henry/Ryback myself. I know a lot of guys here (Yeah, Cody, KOK) liked it (mostly because they have a hard on for big man brawls :side, but aside from those first few minutes of them bumping into each other madly, the match was a borefest of planetary proportions imo. And Henry deserved MUCH better than Ryback of course, but he was just as much if not more to blame for my dislike of this thing. Rock/Cena II was pretty bad, but it did have acceptable moments like Cena trolling Rock and the finisher fest was imho hilarious and entertaining for what it was. Even if the first 20 minutes were even duller and even worse than Henry/Ryback.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked henry/ryback so I guess add me to the group


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wrestlemania sucked until 2001, so I'm glad that you're doing this. Honestly, Wrestlemania 27 and 29 are in the middle-upper end of Manias. I used to like Henry/Ryback when I watched it live, but then I rewatched it and it sucked. Just because big guys are "brawling" against each other doesn't make it good. These guys could do SO much better. Such a shame because the feud was actually pretty good.

Undertaker vs. Mankind at IYH: Revenge of the Taker is superb. I loved the way Undertaker structured his comebacks back then. Those on-your-knees punches :lenny. Bret/Austin from the same event rules too.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I remember that Taker/Mankind match, ***1/2 very good one, but not s big fan of the Austin/Hart match from iYH. Just the fact that it was only a month after their WM classic kinda destroyed it for me, **3/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS25 said:


> lol why are you doing this to yourself ? If you MUST do a mania list do like top 50-100 or something ?
> 
> 
> *Been watching some smackdown 2012 gems*


Statistics prove that 8/10 good matches on Smackdown in 2012 feature Sheamus.

True Story

:ayoade


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Pls FLUX not that smiley, your nor OXI


lol yea pretty sure all of these good matches have a variation of show/bryan/sheamus/henry


the bryan/show matches from the start of 2012 are soo fun


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I know I'm not OXI, I think Sasha Banks sucks 

You seen the Sheamus/Tensai clashes, SKINS? They're fantastic, think there's an SD one and a RAW one. Both are great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea there a amazing


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I have that match "only" at ****, always find it silly when people call it the GOAT WCW match.
> 
> Their best match is the one from SmackDown 2005/6/21, by a country mile.


I agree with you that SD 6/23/05 is the best Eddie/Rey match, although I also think that their HH97' match is one of the top 5-10 best matches in WCW history. All you have to do is listen to Heenan on commentary to realize how revolutionary and awe inspiring that match was. Heenan doesn't often mark out on commentary, but towards the end he is in full on fan mode just watching those two tear it up. Even Dusty was amazed with their "Athletic-cisms" :lmao

I guess to each their own, but man, outside of Flair/Steamboat COTC there isn't one single match in WCW history I would say ABSOLUTELY deserves to be ranked ahead of it. Steamboat/Rude IronMan, Vader/Steamboat Human Cage, Regal/Finlay Uncensored, and maybe a few others are all on the same level so the order for me could change with every re watch.

Eddie Guerrero was known for being legitimately insanely critical of his own work. Rarely, if ever, was he pleased with a match after re watching and critiquing his performance. He said in his book the only match he's ever rewatched and not completely picked apart his performance was that Halloween Havoc match with Rey. He said he and Rey sat back and watched it the next night at Nitro and all he could say was "Fuck, that was good".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie/Rey from HH 97 was the first match I ever downloaded on Limewire lol). Watched the shit out of that match. The next match I found was Malenko/Dragon at Starrcade 96 :mark:. And then things got bad once I started watching Kevin Nash matches for some reason.

EDIT: Shamrock/Vader from In Your House: Cold Day in Hell did not hold up. Match was pretty boring and dull, and I didn't think they did as good of a job as they could have with the stipulation. Only good thing about the match was Vader's clothesline on Shamrock. Everything else could have been so much better. Definitely not making the list. Undertaker/Austin from that same show is awesome. Undertaker as champion :lenny.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio from June 2005 rapes their Halloween Havoc match. And the Havoc match is still totally great too.

Glad Sheamus vs Tensai matches made the rounds. Fucking bossy slugfests right there. I wished Tensai got more matches. Dammit, WWE. idc if they're on Superstars.

DANGEROUS ALLIANCE.

Pardon some minor imperfections, I still love Dragon vs Malenko from Starrcade '96. Big fan of that whole show, as I often say.

WCW selection is the only reason why I will bother w/WWE network. Total shoot. Which is why I'm waiting to hear what their content on the promotion will be. If minimal, they can suck my dick.

k, there are the bullet points.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They claim all the PPV's will be there from the start, then I guess every so often they'll add bits and pieces, BUT they will also be removing stuff after a while too, so it all won't be on all the time and at the same time, which kinda sucks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> They claim all the PPV's will be there from the start, then I guess every so often they'll add bits and pieces, *BUT they will also be removing stuff after a while too*, so it all won't be on all the time and at the same time, which kinda sucks.


Where did you hear that?

Either way, it'll be great for those who rip the shows or tape it and then post it online. Specially useful for the old Raw/Smackdown episodes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ugh. That's what I was afraid of. It really is just a souped up WWE 24/7.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Where did you hear that?
> 
> Either way, it'll be great for those who rip the shows or tape it and then post it online. Specially useful for the old Raw/Smackdown episodes.


Read it on one of the many news reports that have been coming out regarding the network.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Every WWE PPV though :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Honestly I don't really care too much about the TV shows. Just give me a decent selection of old stuff and give me the full PPV archive along with every PPV live and I won't complain. 



I've been making my way through the Summerslam Anthology that I have and I got around to Summerslam 1994. I just finished the Bret/Owen Cage match and I'm really happy that I finally got around to watching it. It was one of the last classic matches that I've never seen before. 

It's one of the few cage matches where you can see how desperate both guys are to get out of the cage and win the match. There wasn't a single wasted motion and not a single move that made think that they weren't trying to win. It was just a great back and forth match between to guys that were desperate to win. Also they didn't ignore the door. In fact there were some great moments by the door where both guys were trying to crawl out. I didn't think it was possible for things to be that exciting near a cage door. 

The other great parts where the small things that they did. I loved how Bret and Owen would consider going for the door to break up an escape from time to time, you could almost see that they were asking themselves, "Can I make it out before him?" There was this great moment where Bret was on the top rope and Owen just got up. Owen looks at the door and then at Bret. Bret looks at Owen and back at the cage. They both rush each other and meet in the middle of the ring. 

With a minimum of huge spots they had a really exciting match. The best praise I can give the match is that if it were airing live and I didn't know the result I would have had a heart attack watching it because it felt like the match could end at any second. I'm thinking like ****1/2 for it.



Also Lex Luger and Yokozuna had a better match at Summerslam 1993 then I ever thought possible. Yeah the celebration at the end was pretty stupid but it was a pretty fun match between them.


----------



## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

Removing things from the network and putting them on rotation isn't really surprising. It's what all the other streaming avenues such as Netflix and Amazon do. I think it's cheaper to do it that way because of licensing fees.

In this instance though, seeing that WWE owns all of it, I'm not sure the point, but I'm not surprised by it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd actually want the WWF/WWE tv shows WAY over their PPVs. Those are available already. Have been for years. That's why I own a lot as it is. TV isn't. Give me the rare stuff in great quality. That's worth paying monthly for.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its only 10 bucks, might as well put in down because I usually buy 2-3 shows a year so this helps me save money

If TV is added :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm honestly only buying for the live, current PPVs. The rest is just a bonus really.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Interesting how so many gripe about WWE's mediocre PPVs, yet when a deal comes down the pike, the people salivate. Until they get their act together, nothing is a better option for their current PPVs than "free".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

$10/month for PPVs (instead of $50) along with all other content = I'm sold.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cycling out won't be often


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They better have some WCW Saturday Night episodes. Surely there are some rare Finlay matches to watch. FINLAY!

Did he ever carry Konnan to a good match? So far my list of wrestlers that have done so is stuck at one. Guess who?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Interesting how so many gripe about WWE's mediocre PPVs, yet when a deal comes down the pike, the people salivate. Until they get their act together, nothing is a better option for their current PPVs than "free".


Personally would rather pay $10 on my HD TV then watch a shitty stream 

but then again, I'm streaming the rumble


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who streams?

I'm talking pirating. Hasn't failed me yet & been worth it instead of wasting money for bad PPVs. Except for SummerSlam. But that was a different scenario altogether.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I am sold on the WWE Network if they restore their PPV Quality to the summer's. Payback, MITB, SummerSlam were pretty good. NOC and on were not worth streaming at all, IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I pirate stuff of course, but technically I'm not paying for bad shows, Im paying for mania and Summerslam, the other shows in great quality is just an added bonus

But then again, I only own like 50 dvds, so maybe the archive thing is more enticing to me then others


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I bet the WWE Network is gonna suck, unless they have like every RAW & SmackDown :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

XWT always has been and forever will be my best friend. <3


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I bet the WWE Network is gonna suck, unless they have like every RAW & SmackDown :mark:


They are supposedly starting out with a decent amount of shows, and will be expanding on them as time passes. So they will have a good number of Raw's and SD's, I suppose. Also Nitro shows.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I swear it's impossible to satisfy the brothers. Of course, I'm not subscribing to the network either, but oh well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

murderface your new sig (Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wrestling fans= the cheapest bastards ever 

Am I the only one buying the network?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Wrestling fans= the cheapest bastards ever
> 
> Am I the only one buying the network?


I think I may subscribe, I think the quality of the product may go up during WM Season, and stay somewhat decent for a bit.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> They are supposedly starting out with a decent amount of shows, and will be expanding on them as time passes. So they will have a good number of Raw's and SD's, I suppose. Also Nitro shows.


That's good to hear, I own most their ppv's so TV and WCW/ECW stuff is the only thing that really entices me.



> murderface your new sig (Y)


Which one? I have like 12 in


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Wrestling fans= the cheapest bastards ever
> 
> Am I the only one buying the network?


I'll be getting it, and I really only watch Raw and a handful of PPVs a year.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is there a free trial? Because if so, I'll check it out before paying

if not, I'll just pay


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> That's good to hear, I own most their ppv's so TV and WCW/ECW stuff is the only thing that really entices me.


Yeah. I don't own many physical DVD's or very many files on my PC, of shows and PPV's, so watching some of the Nitros and Raws on there will be pretty cool. Also, some of the SD's will be pretty good to have on there. Lesnar, Mysterio, Guerrero :mark:



William Murderface said:


> Which one? I have like 12 in


Punk :mark: Lesnar :mark: Barrett :mark: Rollins :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Yeah. I don't own many physical DVD's or very many files on my PC, of shows and PPV's, so watching some of the Nitros and Raws on there will be pretty cool. Also, some of the SD's will be pretty good to have on there. Lesnar, Mysterio, Guerrero :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> Punk :mark: Lesnar :mark: Barrett :mark: Rollins :mark:


Once I get that elusive job I will gladly pay to see all of the RAW & SmackDowns that I have most likely only seen once.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol I just realized that, I think you know the one :ziggler2, punk one is bad ass too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown 2003 in high definition quality. Lordy. I'm not asking for too much, WWE.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> lol I just realized that, I think you know the one :ziggler2, punk one is bad ass too


Hey there is a lot of talent in my sig so it could have been anyone 

Am I the only one who thinks watching wrestling with a chick is the funniest thing?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Didn't notice the Jericho and Ziggler ones.

SD from early RA years is what I would mainly want in terms of SD. Wouldn't really care much about SD after 2006-2007, tbh. Get some good SD shows from recent years in there, like some of the shows with Orton/Christian matches, promos.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Raw 04, SD 03, and SD 06

PLEASE!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Didn't notice the Jericho and Ziggler ones.
> 
> SD from early RA years is what I would mainly want in terms of SD. Wouldn't really care much about SD after 2006-2007, tbh. Get some good SD shows from recent years in there, like some of the shows with Orton/Christian matches, promos.


I'm just full of surprises 

I don't care what year it is, just watching stuff I saw years ago is gonna be more then enjoyable for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If the WWE Network has TV shows I'll be OK with it. I couldn't give a flying fuck about PPVs; those are so easy to come by. Could also not give a flying fuck about HD or any of that stuff. Just show me good wrestling that isn't easy to find elsewhere. 

I get the idea a bunch of people will just take whatever rare shit is on the network and put it online anyway, like WWE 24/7.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think it's set in stone what we all want. Have to hope the limitations are few and far between the goodies this 'network' could provide.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Raw 04, SD 03, and SD 06
> 
> PLEASE!


:mark:

TOOTHLESS AGGRESSION IN HD is the selling point of the WWE Network for me. But I don't think it's a surprise for anyone.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I'm just full of surprises
> 
> I don't care what year it is, just watching stuff I saw years ago is gonna be more then enjoyable for me.


That makes sense, when I watch some PPVs and Raw's/SD's from just last year or two years ago that I thought were mediocre, I kind of enjoy them a bit more, when watching. There are some years, though, that I would prefer over others, obviously.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Everything that was bad years ago becomes fun over time haha, unless the match is truly atrocious & just straight boring.

Like RAW lately has been so BAD!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown 2004 _*cough cough*_

Stuff was hilarious. Glad I picked a terrible edition that night.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Everything that was bad years ago becomes fun over time haha, unless the match is truly atrocious & just straight boring.
> 
> Like RAW lately has been so BAD!


Exactly. I watch shows like Extreme Rules or Survivor Series from 2012 and 2011, and even though they seemed simply decent at the time, they now seem very fun, especially with the crowd reactions, some of the good matches, and shit PPV's like NOC, HIAC, etc, in the past few months.

Hell, I even feel nostalgic for *this summer*, when I watch Payback and MITB, where Ziggler was WHC, matches were pretty good, storytelling in matches was better than it is now, on average, and storylines were stronger. Just this summer!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IK we're talking about the WWE network but heres my Invasion review that was requested last night, decent show, but too much shit in between good stuff. 



Spoiler: Invasion review



*Invasion 2001 DVD review​*
The infamous show that apparently flopped(story wise), but I haven’t seen a single match from it, but apparently it’s a middle of the road show in a year of awesome PPVS. Let’s find my opinion on it. 

*Match #1: Edge and Christian vs Lance Storm and Mike Awesome*

Well this could be pretty good, funny how its guys with a shit ton of charisma vs 2 guys, though while good in the ring, have less charisma than anyone out there. These guys basically flopped in the WWF, while Christian and Edge both went on to become world champions. Nonetheless, expecting a decent match here. Fun match early on, lots of fast paced action and the crowd seems into it. I love Lance Storm, one of my favorites. I liked the Masato Tanaka Mike Awesome has had, but I haven't seen anything else from him, I suppose hes decent, because hes putting on a fun match here. Really enjoying this so far though, Awesome and Storm are doing really well, and for a team that got jobber entrances, they're getting in a good amount of offense. I really liked this match, it wasn't a perfect match of course, but it was FUN, all four guys can go in the ring, and it made for an energetic and exciting tag match. ***1/2
*
Match #2: Nick Patrick vs Earl Hebner *

What a terrible idea to have referees fight, NO 

*Match #3: The APA vs Chuck Palumbo and Sean O Haire
*
I think its funny that all these WCW/ECW guys never really became anything, only guys like the Dudely boyz.RVD, and Booker became stars TBH. This should be a good fight, with all 4 guys working stiff as shit. Yep, those punches look like they hurt like shit, working stiffly seems to be the theme in this match. But unfortunately so far this is nothing more than a dull brawl between 2 average workers and the good APA. There was nothing really special about this imo and I found it to be quite boring, but entertaining at times. The match had a good ending and the crowd popped for the APA win. However, besides that, there wasn't much to see here. **
*
Match #4: Billy Kidman vs X-Pac*

Expecting this to be a fun match, but its kind of a conflict of styles here, hopefully it entertains me, I like Kidman so that’s a possibility. Decent match to start out, better than the tag match before this, but not as solid as the opener. Billy is doing his best to carry Xpac to a good match in this because Xpac does suck a lot, so no surprises he is trying to carry him. Its too bad this dude got mixed in drugs because he was decent before, remember the match with Bret? I need to rewatch that, barely remember it. This was OK, not too bad, and the Cruiserweight title is born(in WWF), and the light heavyweight title dies.**3/4
*
Match #5: Raven vs William Regal 
*
REGAL! This should be plenty of fun, weird because this is about as different from a style as you could find. Hardcore vs Mat. Really looking forward to it. Expecting a Regal carry job here, not that Raven is bad, its just that I dont think he will be Regals best opponent. Luckily for him Regal can have good matches with just about anyone. Decent match, especially for the time its given. A different kind of Raven match as its not a hardcore match and he actually uses a few is holds. Bah, this sucked dick, didn’t like it whatsoever. Regal and Raven just don’t have chemistry, which isn’t that surprising but its Regal so you would think he would be good with anyone, NOT RAVEN! ½*

*Match #6: Chris Kanyon, Shawn Stasiak and Hugh Morrus vs Billy Gunn, The Big Show and Albert *

Wow this is like Jobbers galore besides Show and maybe Albert(now a jobber though), hopefully this gets like no time, because this doesn’t seem like it would have too much substance in it. this is gonna be a chore to watch I can tell, this whole show par the opener and the last match have all been really difficult to write about, because its been a pretty flat show so far unfortunately. This hasn't been sickingly bad so far, but its 5 jobbers and Big Show so I knew what I was going into. Luckily this was kept super short at around 4 minutes, it was fine for what it was, a filler match. Crowd didn't seem to care too much, but why would they, this is just a pointless tag match. So nothing to see here, could have been worse I guess. *

*Match #7: Tajiri vs Tazz 
*
TAJIRI! I love this guy, but Tazz’s WWF run was pretty shitty, so unfortunately not expecting another classic by the man with the mist, but still hopefully a good match. And here we go, TAJIRI IS GONNA BE THE GOAT of course. Some awesome chops to start us out, this should be a fun David vs Goliath match. Tajiri has those awesome kick, but Tazz shoots him down with a monster clothesline. Tajiri is making this match so far, Tazz is just kinid of mowing him down and not making the match any better. God I love Tajiri, this man is making a 2001 Tazz match extrememly enjoyable, honestly didn't think that was possible, but I guess you never know. The ending to this match is insane, crowd knows Tazz is gonna win, but when Tajiri wins they pop so much. Seeing him win against a monster like Tazz was so awesome. PLEASE RETURN TO THE WWE TAJIRI. I loved this match, they put so much in a short time period. ***1/4

*Match #8: Jeff Hardy vs RVD	
*
I have heard that this is an awesome match, I could use that because this show has been a pretty big struggle to get through so far, because the whole show has been very flat so far, too many short matches. These two start out doing flips onto each other, while that feels quite uneccesary, it gets the crowd excited finally, about time they wake their asses up. Fun match so far, a lot of energy, as would be expected from these two. Its a spotfest so far, but its a fucking entertaing spotfest. This match is awesome so far, they eventually make their way out into the crowd, and this is no Cena/Ryback, awesome stuff. RVD does a :mark: kick to the back from the apron to the barrior, some awesome shit here, really a good change of pace. AWESOME powerbomb by Hardy from the apron to the floor on RVD, that shit was awesome. A ladder is being introduced! Hardy's on the top of the ladder, and RVD knocks him over! :mark:. So thats where the famous "where do you learn to fall off a 20 ft ladder?"quote from JR they used to play on their saftey warnings,oh they used another one! :mark: at the kick by RVD when Hardy had the chair, that looked like it HURT. This is some awesome shit here. So we get a new hardcore champion here as RVD comes away with the win. This match was awesome! One of my favorite spotfests that isn't like a MITB match ir a TLC match, so awesome. JR asks how many stars I wanna give it at home, gonna go with 4 JR. ****

*Match #9: Trish Stratus and Lita vs Torrie Wilson and Stacie Kiebler *

I watched, but not for wrestling . N/A

*Match #10: DDP, Booker T, Rhyno, and the Dudley Boyz vs Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Kane, and Kurt Angle *

Wow the WWF side is STACKED, the WCW side is looking a little rough, where’s all the stars? Oh yeah they decided to wait it out I guess. Looking forward to this, should be good, too bad it looks like its gonna get 30 minutes, like 10-15 minutes more than EVERYTHING else, cut some matches plz. DAMN steph is looking tonight, well she usually is so this is no surprise really. Crowd is going insane here,mainly for Austin of course. we finally start after a lengthy brawl, Austin and Rhyno start out. Again WCWECW stacks up pretty weakly to WWF, but whatever, wish Shane got in the ring like he did for the SVS 01 ME(That match rocks). I like how Rhyno is getting some good time starting out, prolly the best on the alliance except DDP, and he was ancient at this time. Fun match so far, ton of energy that just makes a match a boatload of fun to watch. Also not a match you dont have to think to hard about, just sit back and enjoy. Kane just destroying everyone was pretty fun, he has like 3 people against him at one point, so awesome. :mark: at Rhyno and Taker brawling, even though its only for a few minutes, it was still awesome. 

This match is just flat out FUN, i'm not bored in the slightest and although it doesn't feel long at all, I'm pretty far in. Hell, even the lower card guys on the alliance are doing well. Booker T isn't doing as terrible as he usually is. I swear the only time I've ever enjoyed him is as King Booker, though I like the match with trips at mania. The ending stretch to this match is INSANE, a massive brawl breaks out and the crowd goes INSANE. Actually is it the ending stretch? I have no clue, but it feels like that. :mark: at Taker giving a last ride to Charles Robinson :lol. Okay, now we're at the end, Angle just starts mowin people down, but Booker fights back! SHANE FIGHTING VINCE! :mark:. Angle's gonna win, Bookers tapping. WHAT THE FUCK AUSTIN SCREWED THE WWF! WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT HE JUST TURNED FACE? What a fucking ending, I loved that entire match, I know the rating is too high but IDGAF. ****1/4

2 matches of this show rocked, plus the fun opener, decent show, too many matches got like zero time, but it did have a Tajiri win, so can’t complain too much. 6/10​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

a **** 1/4, a ****, a *** 1/2 and a *** 1/4 and it's only a decent show? I'd call that a pretty fucking excellent show if you ask me  Especially if the not so good stuff is kept short.

On topic though: My biggest disagreement would be with RVD/Hardy. Almost DUD central for me. Hate everything about it


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Exactly. I watch shows like Extreme Rules or Survivor Series from 2012 and 2011, and even though they seemed simply decent at the time, they now seem very fun, especially with the crowd reactions, some of the good matches, and shit PPV's like NOC, HIAC, etc, in the past few months.
> 
> Hell, I even feel nostalgic for *this summer*, when I watch Payback and MITB, where Ziggler was WHC, matches were pretty good, storytelling in matches was better than it is now, on average, and storylines were stronger. Just this summer!


If your talking about NOC & HIAC from this year, I only really care to re-watch Del Rio vs RVD in all honesty, everything else was so bad.

I plan on buying Payback and MITB since they were the better shows of 2013.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mike Awesome ruled. Could have been a star if Taker wasn't such a douche.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It was better than decent I guess, it was just such a chore to watch for some reason, hence why it took me 21 hours to get through it

The Tajiri match needed more time


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mike Awesome ruled. Could have been a star if Taker wasn't such a douche.


And if he was still alive... :side:

What's the backstory on Taker/Awesome?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> If your talking about NOC & HIAC from this year, I only really care to re-watch Del Rio vs RVD in all honesty, everything else was so bad.
> 
> I plan on buying Payback and MITB since they were the better shows of 2013.


Yes, this year. PPV's and Raw's have just been so bad, generally, since late September. A few good matches, like Rhodes Brothers VS Rollins/Reigns at Battleground, but the product, in general, has been pretty bad.

Payback, MITB, SummerSlam were all good. Payback and MITB both had very good crowds, and SummerSlam had two very good matches(Punk VS Brock, Bryan VS Cena).

MITB was my personal favorite, liked the SD Ladder match, Ziggler/Del Rio, and the rest was fine, as well. Payback's Ziggler VS Del Rio was very good, also. 

I have MITB in HD fully downloaded on my PC.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Yes, this year. PPV's and Raw's have just been so bad, generally, since late September. A few good matches, like Rhodes Brothers VS Rollins/Reigns at Battleground, but the product, in general, has been pretty bad.
> 
> Payback, MITB, SummerSlam were all good. Payback and MITB both had very good crowds, and *SummerSlam had two very good matches*(Punk VS Brock, Bryan VS Cena).
> 
> ...


I think you mean 3 bro, ADR/Christian was :mark: :mark: :mark:

I also still want Elimination chamber and WrestleMania, I'm really dying to watch WrestleMania 29 again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/video_reviews/13422
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/classic-wrestling/410304-20-years-ago-wrestling-observer-10.html

The reason why Mike Awesome was abruptly released was because Undertaker didn't feel that he knew how to wrestle the "WWE style". Awesome didn't really get much of a chance to adapt though, and the irony behind it was that from 1998-2001, Awesome was the better wrestler than The Undertaker.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Mike Awesome was litteraly awesome.

Fuck I miss and loved that guy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I hadn't heard that before. Interesting. I was always a fan as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Such a shame too because an Undertaker/Mike Awesome match could be scary good. Imagine those two powerbombing each other all over the arena!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Emotionally torn over this. I would have done some things to see a match between those two.

and tbf, Undertaker in 1998 - 2001 wasn't bad. He was one of the few guys that was *good* in the Attitude Era. Lets not kid ourselves.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

He should have done a shoot promo on it at ECW ONS :mark:

Now I want to see a match of his, good match link plz


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So I was watching some SHEAMUS, I refresh the page to see the topic of discussion is MIKE AWESOME and I think...

SHEAMUS VS. MIKE AWESOME.

Why do I do this to myself? </3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've gone down that road too...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Undertaker was entertaining from 1998-2001, but he didn't have that many great matches. In fairness, dude was injured for half that time, but he clearly experienced a career resurgence in 2002 as Big Evil. But since we may never get the chance to talk about Mike Awesome ever again, I give you this:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> He should have done a shoot promo on it at ECW ONS :mark:
> 
> Now I want to see a match of his, good match link plz


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is there a bad bryan/sheamus match ? still looking


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to spread rep to both, but thanks, will watch those now

Skins: WM 28?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who had a ton of great matches in that period? Not many. 2000 & 2001 was the only time that workers finally started to break out. Fact Undertaker managed to remain a constant is the point here.

Awesome vs Spike is a match I've legit seen about 40 times. Maybe more. It's addicting.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Keeps his belt on for the start of the match :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

William Murderface said:


> Am I the only one who thinks watching wrestling with a chick is the funniest thing?


If I had a dollar for every time I did and she asked, "Why do you like this stuff?"...

Pretty pumped for RAW tonight. :mark: 

Unless it turns out that Bryan's concussion is serious enough to sideline him for a while :side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We all still like Jerry Lynn, right?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I think you mean 3 bro, ADR/Christian was :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> I also still want Elimination chamber and WrestleMania, I'm really dying to watch WrestleMania 29 again.


ADR/Christian was good, and Cody/Sandow was decent. Kind of forgot about the under-card matches, as they were not very stressed on programming, and weren't as important, storyline-wise. 

Elimination Chamber was OK, the EC Match itself was pretty good, IMO, though it was a bit slow at times. Was a shame Jericho didn't win, IMO. WM was a disappointment for me, Punk/Taker was great, but HHH/Lesnar didn't deliver, and I thought Rock/Cena was pretty bad. Though, I guess I may give it another watch, for the Ziggler and Langston/Hell No match, Jericho/Fandango, Shield/Orton, Sheamus, and Show, and Punk/Taker, obviously. 

Payback is underrated on here, IMO. I would rank these as my Top 3 PPV's, this year:

1. MITB
2. SummerSlam
3. Payback


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Payback sucked.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Payback sucked.


I thought Ziggler/Del Rio delivered. Crowd was good, too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Those Mike Awesome matches :banderas


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Though I see why you probably disliked Payback. Cena/Ryback, the Main Event itself, was awful. Opening match was OK. The Ziggler/Del Rio match, I thought was really good, but it may be in part because I am a Ziggler fan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like we made a new believer in him. Now for C2D to marvel in Awesome's awesomeness. This is definitely the last time we will ever get to talk about ECW. Only reason we could was because KillaCal want here to shut us down.

The opinion people have regarding Payback hinges entirely on how they think of Punk/Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio vs Ziggler is fabulous. Doesn't mean the whole show was.

Punk vs Jericho was a mega DUD, Cena vs Ryback was flatter than day old soda, & Shield tag was disappointing; nowhere near as good as it could have been thanks to having Orton in the mix. Him playing the FIP was all wrong. A hot tag by him would have been meh at best _(thus making scenario screwed from jump-street)_, but it would have been better to have Danielson create sympathy and interest for the bulk.

Good crowd, meh. That's nice, but more of a bonus. There needs to be something inside the ropes to make that matter.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

ECDUB


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Del Rio vs Ziggler is fabulous. Doesn't mean the whole show was.
> 
> Punk vs Jericho was a mega DUD, Cena vs Ryback was flatter than day old soda, & Shield tag was disappointing; nowhere near as good as it could have been thanks to having Orton in the mix. Him playing the FIP was all wrong. A hot tag by him would have been meh at best _(thus making scenario screwed from jump-street)_, but it would have been better to have Danielson create sympathy and interest for the bulk.
> 
> Good crowd, meh. That's nice, but more of a bonus. There needs to be something inside the ropes to make that matter.


I didn't really like Punk/Jericho, and wasn't expecting anything at all of Cena/Ryback, so I payed little attention to the match. Bryan and Orton VS Shield was OK, though, yeah, the ending wasn't all too great, and the match could have been better. 

Ziggler/Del Rio, I guess, is what I am basing my opinion on, mostly. I actually thought Axel VS Miz VS Axel was fun, too. 

It is definitely not solid all around, like SummerSlam, for instance, which had more than one notable match.

The best match at MITB, I would say, was the opener, though it didn't really have much of a stand-out match other than the opener. I liked Ziggler/Del Rio besides the predictable and somewhat disappointing ending, the All Stars match was OK. Though, I guess it is more a matter of preference for that one, since I really liked the SD Ladder match. SummerSlam is, objectively speaking, stronger than MITB in terms of overall quality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Looks like we made a new believer in him. Now for C2D to marvel in Awesome's awesomeness. This is definitely the last time we will ever get to talk about ECW. Only reason we could was because KillaCal want here to shut us down.
> 
> The opinion people have regarding Payback hinges entirely on how they think of Punk/Jericho.


Only seen the ONS 2005 match and that one rules.

Payback is a one match show. Ziggler/Del Rio and the rest are okay or suck.

Now it's RAW time. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Funnyfaces- I don't know the general consensus in here or anything, but I definitely appreciate Jerry Lynn. Dude was awesome, I'm pretty sure he had his retirement match last year as a matter of fact. He's one of the guys you always hear indie scene wrestlers talking about as one of the best ring generals and most helpful vets on the circuit. Plus, dude was absolutely tough as nails. Did you SEE the spill he took in that RVD match in ECW when he was legit knocked unconscious for over 30 seconds? Not only did he finish the match, but once he shook the cobwebs off he resumed calling the damn thing in the ring. Total pro.


Terry Funk puts over Mike Awesome in a big way in his book, if he's good enough for the funker he's good enough for me. I've only seen about a half dozen of his matches, most vs Tanaka and 1 or 2 from his WCW run.

I'm definitely all in on the WWE Network. I know some people don't have a job and shit is tough out there I know it, but for any wrestling fan that is fortunate to have a job, I can't see why you wouldn't subscribe. WWE has flat out said the more subscribers they get, the more content they can afford to keep up there. They are talking about doing original shows and even a studio style/SportsCenter esque type deal every day of the week. How cool is that? WWE has the most ridiculous match library ever assembled. If we all support this network, there is a good chance we will get to see hours and hours of greatness from the 80's territories, stuff we'd never get to see otherwise. I'm surely gonna give it a shot. If it's whack, oh well you only have to commit to 6 month blocks it's not like they are asking for your first born. But if enough people support it and WWE really puts their focus into it? It could be the greatest thing ever. All the DVD sets we always wish WWE would put out (cough VADER cough) won't be necessary because we could have Vaders entire career on US soil just a click away. AND THEY HAVE SAID THEY ARE GONNA INCLUDE ALL OF CHRIS BENOITS STUFF WITHOUT EDITS! I need to stop I think I just got an erection.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I didn't really like Punk/Jericho, and wasn't expecting anything at all of Cena/Ryback, so I payed little attention to the match. Bryan and Orton VS Shield was OK, though, yeah, the ending wasn't all too great, and the match could have been better.
> 
> Ziggler/Del Rio, I guess, is what I am basing my opinion on, mostly. I actually thought Axel VS Miz VS Axel was fun, too.
> 
> ...


Opener was shockingly solid. That's a plus. Same w/the sleeper Divas match too. But the over-under on the show is more negative - or rather disappointing on the whole - than positive. A bleh show w/a terrific match.

I like MITB. Another good show in that PPV franchise. You know it's a show that worked when Axel vs Miz was actually pretty good. Weird how they worked a few nifty spots in there. I was stunned. Second best behind SummerSlam. Or that could still be WM. Been wanting to re-watch that. Dunno why that show is underrated. It's fine pardon the LOL Cena vs Rock II stuff. Hell, even that had probably the best Cena moment of 2013 w/his callback tease. Either way. Those were the only three PPVs I enjoyed. Everything else was like Payback where it had one - two matches I liked, or, none at all.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Watch Angle/Austin from Summerlsam 01 last night and was disappointed . It wasn't a bad match still probably a **** but just expected more.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone seems to criticize the ending to that match except for the folks here. Thankfully, the opinions of the folks here matter the most. Except when it comes to Benoit/Angle RR 03 and Hogan/Flair HH 94.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Funnyfaces, Hogan/Flair is awesome and you're a cunt for not loving it.

:hhh2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're a Patriots fan eyton

But seriously. 1994 WCW was actually really good until HE came. Fall Brawl 94 is an underrated show.

Have you guys seen the Hogan/Vader matches? Those are so funny.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Funnyfaces Pats fans=GOAT 

Hogan/Flair sounds good I guess

BATISTA!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WOAT spinebuster Dave.

BROCK IS HERE :mark:.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So much funny stuff tonight. SKINNY JEANS, DEAL WITH IT, WOAT spine buster, SKINNY JEANS preventing an actual Batista Bomb, and that fucking ending :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Opener was shockingly solid. That's a plus. Same w/the sleeper Divas match too. But the over-under on the show is more negative - or rather disappointing on the whole - than positive. A bleh show w/a terrific match.
> 
> I like MITB. Another good show in that PPV franchise. You know it's a show that worked when Axel vs Miz was actually pretty good. Weird how they worked a few nifty spots in there. I was stunned. Second best behind SummerSlam. Or that could still be WM. Been wanting to re-watch that. Dunno why that show is underrated. It's fine pardon the LOL Cena vs Rock II stuff. Hell, even that had probably the best Cena moment of 2013 w/his callback tease. Either way. Those were the only three PPVs I enjoyed. Everything else was like Payback where it had one - two matches I liked, or, none at all.


The Main Events are what made WM somewhat unappealing to me. Punk/Taker was great, but the other two weren't anything of note, especially Cena/Rock. There were some good undercard matches there, like Shield's match, and Punk/Taker was the highlight, IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)




----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

So, I am currently watching Wrestlemania 16 and man was the first hour fucking disappointing. 

Big Boss-Man and Bull Buchanan vs Dlo and Godfather:
1.5 Stars
This match was pretty boring, and there could have been a better opener. The crowd seemed dead almost the entire time, except for the points when The Godfather got in the ring. I always forget how over he was during times in the attitude era. Bull Buchanan's top rope leg drop to finish this match was pretty cool, but he should not have won. Godfather should have won to keep that crowd happy.

Hardcore Championship 15-minute Battle Royale - Winner Hardcore Holly:
2-Stars
Ugh, this is the kind of garbage hardcore match that I don't miss at all. This match was all over the place. Also, having Viscera win early on and then keep it for so long really slowed it down as the camera was forced to stay on him the entire time. Again, it was a shitty ending to this match as the only person who got the crowd hot was Tazz. He was the best part of this match and was the only thing worth watching. The ending was also screwy and it was not in a fun or interesting way. The ref looked kind of confused about it himself. Seriously, why didn't Tazz win this?

T&A vs. Head Cheese:
1 Star
Trish Stratus' boobs were on full display in this match, which was another boring one. Honestly, the first couple of matches make me appreciate how good the mid-card actually is today. Clearly, Trish was new and wasn't over, because the crowd was dead again. The mexican man with the buttcheeks standing out of the cheese costume is ANOTHER example of the attitude era at it's worst. Another heel without heat wins again and the crowd couldn't care less. Also, the announcer problems contributed to an odd audio vibe to the match.

Triangle Ladder Match:
4.5 stars
I was getting ready to write off Wrestlemania 16 upon second viewing. I haven't watched it since it originally aired and I don't remember much, which can't be good, but I remember some of this. It holds up amazingly well and is full of action and moves very quickly from spot to spot. Each team got to have moments to appear awesome. The spot with all of them fighting at the top and two of the ladders being knocked over looked very intense and real. Again, I don't know if the right people won. I still believe the Hardyz should have won to get the crowd invested in this ppv, because already too many heels have won. Fuckin' A, though, these six men know how to put on a match. Amazing.

Terri Runnels vs. The Cat:
0 stars
I fast-forwarded this. Again, attitude era worst rearing it's ugly head and these two are not exactly the best example of women's wrestling. Watching this in fast-forward made it slightly more bearable.

Too Cool and Chyna vs. The Radicalz:
3.5 stars
Woo-hoo. Finally, another good match, maybe we are getting some momentum here. I actually think it was pretty progressive of them to let Chyna win the match. The mini-romance story between Eddie and Chyna was great fodder and gave this match something extra. The interactions between these two were really the heart and soul of this match. Chyna's entrance was pretty cool as well. When Chyna got the hot tag, I thought she did really well and the crowd was totally into it. Also, Dean Malenko and Perry Saturn were showing off how good they can be. Fun match that is exactly what I wish the non-main-events of WM would be all the time.

So, only 3 matches left on the card for me to finish tomorrow, but this show is hurt by bad booking. Not too mention that so many people just were not getting the crowd hot and there was some really ridiculous stuff going on. After watching this again, this ppv is dropping down the ranks in WM for me pretty damn fast. Thank god for Eddie Guerrero, the Hardyz, Dudleyz, and E&C.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Wrestling fans= the cheapest bastards ever
> 
> Am I the only one buying the network?


I'm likely getting it. My only worry is about the live PPV being solid streams. It would be nice for my kindle fire not to crash or PS3 work perfectly for the network.

My selling point is the current ppvs. I need to watch live and I can't trust illegal streams esp. with Mania. I buy mania every year so $60 for that and five other ppvs works for me.

To have everything in the WWE library on the network would probably cost WWE too much money in server fees or something. Not sure how all that works but I also don't think if it was EVERYTHING that it would be $10 a month.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Del Rio vs. Mysterio was pretty solid from RAW. ***1/2 or so. I liked it, may have to bump it down for being so predictable but it's RAW, who cares.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Del Rio vs. Mysterio was a good tv match but I was just waiting for Batista to come out. It's one of those things where waiting for a run in takes me out of the match.

Besides, Mysterio is almost done imo, he's had much better matches with Del Rio before (Del Rio's debut was awesome)

Speaking of Batista.. I like him but my girfriend, she marks out like a little fangirl for him... I'm more of a Bryan fan who wants him win the Rumble and she was like no way is Bryan winning the Rumble, it's all Batista with her.

On the one hand, I want Bryan to win so I'll be happy but if he does, she'll be really pissed off.

She did not like the skinny jeans tho.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Punked Up said:


> Del Rio vs. Mysterio was pretty solid from RAW. ***1/2 or so. I liked it, may have to bump it down for being so predictable but it's RAW, who cares.


Yeah it was tbh. Even thou people find Rio boring, he delivers in the ring when the time is right, and I guess these matches were to build to this fine worked one. 

:ti @ some dude in the RAW thread comparing Rey's slight sloppiness after many knee injuries and many matches put in while injured to Cara's botches.

Damn near retired Rey > Cara


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

How could you not mark for the SKINNY JEANS? :mark:

But like someone else posted in the RR thread, my brain says Batista will win, my heart says Bryan will win, and my gut goes with Bryan in the end. :bryan


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Marked for that entrance :banderas brought back memories. :dance

I really and truly doubt Batista will win the Rumble. I really think WWE is not like TNA where they hand things to old stars unless the draw is right, like Rock, Hogan, Brock, or Austin, and that will only be to put a current roster talent over. So I would be real surprised if Batista wins. I think he's there to drag in some buys for the Rumble like RVD for MITB.

But it's still a we'll see, but I think Bryan still has the strongest chance of winning, and second being Punk. or...

A RETURNING SHEAMUS :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: :troll


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ADR-Mysterio would have been rated higher for me, but I've seen them wrestle so much already. It's almost on the level of Ziggler-Kingston when they had all those matches.

I think ADR is boring, but he's really good in the ring. I wonder if Batista has ring rust he needs to shake off. Pairing ADR-Batista up could shake the rust off quickly and ADR could make him look good and hide any weaknesses Batista may have now.

As for the Rumble.. I truly think WWE is going to give it to Bryan. He's earned it, the fans love it. I think Vince McMahon is finally going to give Bryan his moment and he'll win the Rumble. I see Batista getting eliminated by ADR after Batista eliminates ADR from the match, setting that up. Maybe put the two of them in the chamber match to keep them away from each other one-on-one and then do Batista-ADR at Wrestlemania as the #4 main event.

Batista's there for two years... no need to put the title on him right away.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The spinebuster proves he probably needs to spar a bit to get back in form, or have a couple matches. But maybe I'm just looking a bit too much into it. The Batista bomb was alright even thou he couldn't sit because of the jeans.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck Batista. Who cares; passe and WWE garbage.

Del Rio vs Mysterio tonight = (Y)

Also dudes, Danielson isn't in the rumble btw. Yeah.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Not officially. He will be. There are 9 spots to fill.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

He'll be a surprise entrant. I'd guess #30.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At this rate I trust WWE to keep him out of it as their cop out. Got to make it all about Batista. Danielson is too fixated on Bray Wyatt to care. 

Yeah, please.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

With 9 guys left officially, I really wouldn't be surprised to see someone from NXT to debut in the match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:yes :bryan1 is going to win


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Irrelevant said:


> Can anyone hook me up with a link for Benoit vs Malenko from Spring Stampede 1997? Can't seem to find that match anywhere.


*Dean Malenko vs Chris Benoit - WCW Spring Stampede 1997*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...-wcw-spring-stampede-1997-a.html#post28951449


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

the rumble is Actually kind of unpredictable this year, I know the reports have been saying Batista, but I doubt it. 

My bet is Punk, honestly deserves it more than Bryan,especially since he might retire soon


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Such a shame if Bryan won't be in the Rumble. Most over guy in the company, right now. Deserves it far more than anyone else who is being pitted as a favorite for Rumble winner.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> My bet is Punk, honestly deserves it more than Bryan,especially since he might retire soon


Punk is facing HHH at WM, isn't he? I've seen that around so much the past month it feels true and if so there's no way he's winning the Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yawn Baptista is back.

:lmao it's like WWE DON'T WANT ME TO WATCH RANDY ORTON MATCHES. Ever. They continue to book him against Cena and Kofi all the time. LOL.

Shield Vs Cody & Goldust :mark:... and big e. Bah. WHY DO THEY KEEP RUINING GOOD THINGS?

OMG OMG OMG OMG SUPERMAN PUNCH TO COUNTER DISASTER KICK :mark:. That kinda makes up for Big E Sucks being in this thing. SPEAR. Followed by Big E taking the pin from Seth and his finisher. The uhh... fuck I can't remember the name of it. BLACKOUT. Thanks wiki. Also, :lmao best finisher name ever to do to a black guy. <3 Seth. And <3 Roman. I wanna <3 Ambrose but it's kinda hard when he doesn't do anything really .

Bryan :mark:. Did any of yall see that "report" where WWE were embarrassed by the fact they HAD to turn Bryan face after just 2 weeks because he was so fucking over? :lmao I so hope it's true because they fucking deserve to be embarrassed for being complete morons and thinking ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR GUYS IN THE COMPANY should be heel at the absolute height of his popularity. Not the first time they've done it, but seems it's the only time they've had to go back on their decision because it simply wasn't working.

Stop using the word exposed please. Bryan is exposed. Bray is exposed. Everyone is exposing themselves. STOP IT. :lmao

Huh, Fandango is still around.

KANE AND BRAD. Hope they make a sitcom about them for the Network. With Stephanie as their boss who shows up to bitch at them both every week. I'd watch it. Technically I AM watching it because it's happening on Raw right now. Yey!

IT'S APOLOGY TIME!! Followed by elbows to the face time. YEY MORE BRAD AND KANE :mark:. NEW AGE OUTLAWS. I still :mark: for them lol. Road Dogg on commentary :mark:. Outlaws got a tag title match? Yey. It's on the Pre-Show? Boo. The fuck is on the actual PPV card? Rumble, Show/Lesnar and WWEWHC match? :lmao at Punk's half arsed dive onto Road Dogg. Does Punk even care right now? Doesn't matter who he faces lately, he always looks like he's half arsing everything. Which is sad because he still looks like THE BEST IN THE WORLD compared to the guy who's currently on top with the WWEWHC. :lmao a second lazy dive to Road Dogg. I'd try and make the excuse that he's trying to be more "safe" working with two old guys but fuck he's like this every week now.

Punk is #1 in the Rumble.

HEYMAN. AND BROCK. MAINLY HEYMAN. BUT BROCK TOO.

Pfft, WWE's "by the numbers" video package for the RR is boooring. Mine is better. Plus the song they used in the past that I also used was way better.

OH MY FUCKING GOD. MYSTERIO VS DEL RIO AGAIN? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? I joked last week during SD that Sin Cara and Mysterio are the only opponents Del Rio gets any more. It went from a joke to the fucking truth.

:lmao I think it was Cody (or Yeah? one of you guys) that questioned how the BATISTA BOMB would look these days because Batista is fucked and can't do the sit out part properly any more. Seems he just skips that part now 

Big Show. Urgh. Be all mean and evil and destructive. Stop doing dumb voices. :lmao at Heyman's face at least. Not in general, that would be cruel. But his reaction to Show's impression of him. BLOCK LESNAR. Well done Lawler. :lmao at Show flinching. So Show shoves Lesnar's head in his crotch. That'll teach him! Don't get how people can NOT be looking forward to their match at the Rumble. Sure, it's not the most appealing match for Brock, but they're going with it so get over it. Lesnar is a beast, and Show has already proven that he can be a beast too. Gonna be awesome seeing these two power each other around :mark:.

AJ :mark:. Shame I have to skip all her matches because there is nobody else on the roster worth watching her wrestle. Oh, they had a part for AJ being the longest reigning divas champion ever. ON THE FUCKING WWE APP. Then they showed it on Raw anyway. SO WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT? Oh look AJ lost. As usual. To a talentless slut. As usual.

Oh, Bray Vs Bryan is at the RR. Booo. I wanted Bryan in the rumble. Oh well, gets this feud out of the way (hopefully) before WM, leaving Bryan to like, have a good match at WM (hopefully).

Usos Vs Wyatts. This is new...

Yey bryan appearance.

Main event time! Or as I like to call it... skip ahead to see what happens afterwards time! Yey! 

:lmao Cena shows up and... the show ends :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart is doing the 1992 Timeline of WWE Shoot for Kayfabe Commentaries. :mark:

Looking forward to the Vader one first.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret WWF 1992
Vader WCW 1993
Cornette WWF 1998

:mark: Kayfabe Commentaries are pretty much the GOAT shoot series around.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> :lmao I think it was Cody (or Yeah? one of you guys) that questioned how the BATISTA BOMB would look these days because Batista is fucked and can't do the sit out part properly any more. Seems he just skips that part now


:lmao

You wouldn't believe how much I was shitting all over that as I watched. Knew it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

EDIT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Publishing in progress, my favourite thing ever!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heyman vs Cornette. HA. That's some quality entertainment, right there. Awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can anybody hook me up with the Punk Vs Ambrose matches from December ?

EDIT: FOUND THE SMACKDOWN ONE .

I still think it's astounding how great Reigns, Rollins, & Ambrose are in their own ways. I understand that they're all great individual workers, but GOD DAMN IT I don't ever wanna see them break up .

Unifying the IC/US belts & establishing it's importance again by having Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins feud over it would be awesome. Reigns is one of those guys who has that "IT" factor; it's just cool to watch him fuck shit up in a way that's almost... Dare I say it..... Brock Lesnar-ESQUE.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The disaster kick/superman punch counter and THE BLACKOUT were the best parts of Raw. The two best parts of Raw happened within two minutes of each other :side: For what it's worth, if Rollins uses The Blackout on a regular basis as a finisher, then it automatically becomes the best finisher in the promotion. Such a sick move.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sorry to post this again, i upped this to the wrong account before  Plus for those who missed it 

*Jim Cornette vs Paul.E.Dangerously - WCW Great American Bash 1989 (Tuxedo Match)*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> *Bret WWF 1992*
> Vader WCW 1993
> Cornette WWF 1998
> 
> :mark: Kayfabe Commentaries are pretty much the GOAT shoot series around.


Why am I :ti but also interested in this one ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I still think it's astounding how great Reigns, Rollins, & Ambrose are in their own ways. I understand that they're all great individual workers, but GOD DAMN IT I don't ever wanna see them break up .
> 
> Unifying the IC/US belts & establishing it's importance again by having Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins feud over it would be awesome. Reigns is one of those guys who has that "IT" factor; it's just cool to watch him fuck shit up in a way that's almost... Dare I say it..... Brock Lesnar-ESQUE.


Really curious to see if the breakup happens by Mania. I'm really clamoring for Ambrose to be on his own and really be cut loose. 

I'm down for the titles to be unified, but that doesn't mean WWE will book the champion in any kind of meaningful fashion. Has Ambrose even defended the strap since October? It also seems like if they end up going the unification route, Langston will be the one to win, as they seem really high on him. I was actually very surprised he didn't get the pinfall victory last night. Also, I can't for the life of me remember who Langston won the belt off of? Axel? FUCK. :lol

Enjoyed the finish to the six man last night. The Blackout made me :mark: a little bit. Not because I watched him in ROH (if he indeed used it there), but because I was certain the Shield were losing, and was surprised that Rollins was the one to get the victory.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Why am I :ti












Should be a riveting watch IMO


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

should be good, should go into detail on the whole :flair dispute between them


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite being a massive Bret mark, i havn't watched a single shoot video he has done


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret is hilarious to watch because he's his own biggest mark.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it will be hilarious 

although Bret/Shawn is probably my favorite DOC


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Shawn doc could have been epic had they done it years earlier when HBK was still a massive prick and Bret hadn't forgave him .

Instead it was kinda lame with neither really willing to say half the shit they'd already seen in their own books or shoots they'd done prior to the WWE DVD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

JR did a pretty good job pushing the envelope, though. You could tell it was getting a bit tense towards the end.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Bret/Shawn doc could have been epic had they done it years earlier when HBK was still a massive prick and Bret hadn't forgave him .
> 
> Instead it was kinda lame with neither really willing to say half the shit they'd already seen in their own books or shoots they'd done prior to the WWE DVD.


Think i counted HBK saying "You know" about erm 1065 times.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao he said that every 5 seconds, yea its a pretty overdone topic, but Jr and them did there best to make it fresh. Have any of you seen Shawn's shoot from 00 ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> :lmao he said that every 5 seconds, yea its a pretty overdone topic, but Jr and them did there best to make it fresh. Have any of you seen Shawn's shoot from 00 ?


There is one from '99 on YT i think, is that the one? What is it like?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> There is one from '99 on YT i think, is that the one? What is it like?


It never confirms if its 99 or 00s I think he just finished his run as commissioner or, he actually mentions Dbryan in it

Ah back to question , lol its good, but its ALL PRO Shawn though but that what to be expected, one line was "I'm fucking Superman in that ring" :banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK still denying his part in the Screwjob always makes me lol during that shoot .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao yea he denies it ALL in it, Bret fans would not recommend, and he is chewing dip most of the time too


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking hate shoots where they chew shit. Flair does it a bunch in his shoots too, the super long high spots one and the more recent RF one. Sean Oliver wouldn't stand for that shit.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

SKINS25 said:


> :lmao he said that every 5 seconds, yea its a pretty overdone topic, but Jr and them did there best to make it fresh. Have any of you seen Shawn's shoot from 00 ?


I think, you mean 1999.

This is the 1, right?!


Spoiler: Shawn Michaels Shoot Interview (1999)



xzcz4u

xzd2mf


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea, I knew its was either 99 or 00

yea naitch does it too, only seen his 2013 one


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*#PART5incoming* 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Consider this a blessing - the truly Godawful stuff is gone now. Now it's just bad. Not AS bad, but still bad. Though bearable in one way or the other - which is more than what I can say for the previous 4 parts.


PART 5

200 - Money Inc. vs. Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake, WM 9









199 - Harley Race vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 3









198 - Demolition vs. Strike Force, WM 4









197 - Ronnie Garvin vs. Dino Bravo, WM 5









196 - The Big Bossman vs. Akeem, WM 6









(3/4*)
195 - The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff vs. The Killer Bees, WM 3









194 - Rick Martel vs. Tatanka, WM 8









193 - Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita, WM 18









192 - Ted DiBiase vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 5









191 - Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco, WM 4








(Can't even find a proper picture of this one)

190 - The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock, WM 14









189 - Edge vs. Booker T, WM 18









188 - Tito Santana vs. The Executioner, WM 1









187 - Mankind vs. The Big Show, WM 15









186 - Doink The Clown vs. Crush, WM 9









(*)
185 - Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon vs. The Doinks, WM 10









184 - Randy Savage vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4









183 - The Dream Team vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus, WM 3









182 - Greg Valentine vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 1









181 - Bob Orton & Don Muraco vs. The Can-Am Connection, WM 3








*​


Spoiler: WM countdown



(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5
260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25
259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4
258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4
257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10
256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22
255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20
254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2
253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17
252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11
251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9
250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6
249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6
248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21
247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2
246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3
245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5
244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13
243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6
242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1
241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11
240 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WM 4
239 - Money Inc. vs. The Natural Disasters, WM 8
238 - The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzales, WM 9
237 - Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, WM 11
236 - JBL vs. John Cena, WM 21
235 - Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & The Road Dogg, WM 16
234 - Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane, WM 24
233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12
232 - King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones, WM 1
(1/4*)
231 - Rick Martel vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 6
230 - Beth Phoenix & Eve Torres vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos, WM 28
229 - Batista vs. Umaga, WM 24
228 - Paul Orndorff vs. Don Muraco, WM 2
227 - Kane vs. The Great Khali, WM 23
226 - Kerry Von Erich vs. Dino Bravo, WM 7
225 - Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo, WM 6
224 - Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection, WM 6
223 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
222 - Jake Roberts vs. George Wells, WM 2
221 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, WM 10
220 - Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown & Test, WM 15
219 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sid, WM 18
218 - Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow vs. Crash Holly, WM 15
217 - The Honky Tonk Man vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 4
216 - Rocky Maivia vs. The Sultan, WM 13
215 - Maven vs. Goldust, WM 8
214 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WM 27
213 - The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan vs. The Godfather & D-Lo Brown, WM 16
212 - Don Muraco vs. Dino Bravo, WM 4
211 - Sid vs. The Undertaker, WM 13
210 - Trish Stratus, John Morrison & Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler & LayCool, WM 27
209 - Greg Valentine vs. Earthquake, WM 7
208 - Mark Henry vs. Ryback, WM 29
207 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Power & Glory, WM 7
(1/2*)
206 - King Kong Bundy, Lord Littlebrooke & Little Tokyo vs. Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver & The Haiti Kid, WM 3
205 - Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel, WM 7
204 - The British Bulldog vs. The Warlord, WM 7
203 - Demolition vs. The Powers Of Pain, WM 5
202 - Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes, WM 3
201 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WM 11
200 - Money Inc. vs. Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake, WM 9
199 - Harley Race vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 3
198 - Demolition vs. Strike Force, WM 4
197 - Ronnie Garvin vs. Dino Bravo, WM 5
196 - The Big Bossman vs. Akeem, WM 6
(3/4*)
195 - The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff vs. The Killer Bees, WM 3
194 - Rick Martel vs. Tatanka, WM 8
193 - Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita, WM 18
192 - Ted DiBiase vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 5
191 - Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco, WM 4
190 - The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock, WM 14
189 - Edge vs. Booker T, WM 18
188 - Tito Santana vs. The Executioner, WM 1
187 - Mankind vs. The Big Show, WM 15
186 - Doink The Clown vs. Crush, WM 9
(*)
185 - Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon vs. The Doinks, WM 10
184 - Randy Savage vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
183 - The Dream Team vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus, WM 3
182 - Greg Valentine vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 1
181 - Bob Orton & Don Muraco vs. The Can-Am Connection, WM 3


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Whilst the WrestleMania match between The Rock & Ken Shamrock may have been bad. Their match at King of the Ring (Finals) from the same Year was AweSome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Man, I have seen damn near nothing from the list so far. Just how bad were most of the old Manias? No way I'm going to actually watch them in their entirety.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, out of the first 15, WM's 7 and 8 were great (especially the 1st), 10 and 14 are pretty good, 3, maybe 5 and 12 are kinda decent... and the rest sucks. 15 and 11 don't just suck - they GAG on balls of how bad they are.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for ADR/Rey from last night, great match. **1/4 for Punk/Gunn, the NAO member was really sloppy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

About to watch the AJ Shoot :mark:. Can't wait for him to shit on TNA .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Well, out of the first 15, WM's 7 and 8 were great (especially the 1st), 10 and 14 are pretty good, 3, maybe 5 and 12 are kinda decent... and the rest sucks. 15 and 11 don't just suck - they GAG on balls of how bad they are.


I know one match that rules. 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could someone recommend me a small little series on this snowy afternoon ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> Could someone recommend me a small little series on this snowy afternoon ?


*INVADER ZIM.*

You said series. 8*D

Nah, in all seriousness, the Jericho/X-Pac series.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You seen the Paul London/Akio series, SKINS?

Edit: Or Taylor/Regal vs. Londrick. Either way PAUL LONDON.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Triple H/Chris Benoit No Mercy 2000 (most of their other matches don't really compare to this)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anything must see on Raw last night?


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Batista's Return


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything must see on Raw last night?


I enjoyed the opening segment with the mini-Evolution reunion. If you're not bored of Mysterio/Del Rio matches like I am, you might enjoy their match. And for Bryan marks, his promo gives them their dose of weekly Bryan. Lastly, the main event had a humorous ending that's worth watching for comedy value alone. (not the whole match, just when Cena showed up) Oh and Brock/Show just because BROCK is BROCK and anything he does is worth watching.

Everything else = skip.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything must see on Raw last night?


Finish to the 6 man tag. Lesnar/Show. And that's about it really.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I really have no hope for WM, I fully expect the Outlaws to win the tag titles and Batista to win the Rumble.

I didn't know I was living in 1998 & 2005


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Don't understand the point of Batista winning the rumble, he's already a big star, has already won the rumble, and has already had his WM moment. I'm not even against him getting a title run, but why mania?  

I'm not even a Bryan mark, but he really should win the rumble. He needs it WAY more then Batista.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I really have no hope for WM, I fully expect the Outlaws to win the tag titles and Batista to win the Rumble.
> 
> I didn't know I was living in 1998 & 2005


If you're living in 2005, please let me know how I can join.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm looking forward to Mania. HHH/Punk and Lesnar/whoever is enough to garner my interest.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

For what it's worth, Cubsfan made note of Konnan mentioning a surprise will be announced two weeks before the next AAA PPV (Rey De Reyes). From the looks of it, Sin Cara will be that surprise.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Lesnar vs Taker or Lesnar vs Bryan for the title please 

I still think there's a small chance of Cena/Taker. Cena is in a very weird spot. Wouldn't even be surprised if he won the title Sunday.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Don't understand the point of Batista winning the rumble, he's already a big star, has already won the rumble, and has already had his WM moment. I'm not even against him getting a title run, but why mania?
> 
> I'm not even a Bryan mark, but he really should win the rumble. He needs it WAY more then Batista.


WrestleMania isn't about establishing stars anymore, it's about having every motherfucker coming back to wrestle once a year which is just beyond lazy and in no way entertaining.

It only works for Undertaker because his matches are fantastic every time.



> If you're living in 2005, please let me know how I can join.


The ironic part is I'm gonna be watching Royal Rumble 2005 pretty soon :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since it was the 13th year anniversary, decided to rewatch this.






Still a wonderful classic and 5 star match. The perfect "how to" guide for a ladder match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> For what it's worth, Cubsfan made note of Konnan mentioning a surprise will be announced two weeks before the next AAA PPV (Rey De Reyes). From the looks of it, Sin Cara will be that surprise.


Konnan. Mistico. Same sentence? It's too much crummy lucha namedropping for one to take!

But, seriously, that's got to be it. We all know Mistico has been waiting out the end of his contract. Has to be very soon.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting GAB 04, looking forward to JBL/Eddie and Rey/Chavo

Thats it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit?

It's JBL, fella.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

fpalm

I knew that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unless Smackdown managed to pull the ultimate dream match and booked World Champion Benoit vs WWE Champion Eddie for their show. :side:

S'ok. JBL vs Eddie II was more than acceptable to receive in reality. Show is poor, but watching those two matches makes the go worthwhile. At least you'll get two great matches out of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey-Chavo from that show is Chavo's greatest match IMO.

My god, that show has mordecai vs hardcore holly & a Kenzo Suzuki singles bout IIRC. The main event was also one of taker's absolute worst matches ever and one of the biggest "WTFs" in WWE history. 

Actually, I should give that show a whirl sometime :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Kenzo Suzuki. :lmao

Watched Benoit/Austin from SD an hour ago. G'damn, this match is classic on another level. The ten germans are :mark: every single time, specially in the recent context, seeing Austin stomp a mudhole and toss around Benoit with him making that magical comeback. I think I'll give this the 5 star rating soon. Just too fucking good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Opener is total garbage too. It's a four way - so lets only have two guys at a time work. Don't they realize that instantly makes it awful?

KENSO has actually started 2014 off w/a bang. He's making up for lost time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Charlie Haas Vs Luther "WOAT" Reigns is also on that show, I actually own this shit on DVD :lol?

You take a top two babyface worker of all time (strictly WWE) and put him in the ring with GOD MODE Austin calling the shots? No wonder it's arguably the greatest TV match ever.

ALMOST REIGNS-HAAS QUALITY BABY :lol :lol :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Reigns match isn't really god awful. It's an effective squash. About as good as Reigns could have gotten. It's just alarming when you have it on a PPV. Welcome to Smackdown 2004.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2 matches in, and at -0.5 on the cal scale

skipped the Reigns match 

REY/CHAVO NEXT :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Charlie Haas Vs Luther "WOAT" Reigns is also on that show, I actually own this shit on DVD :lol?
> 
> *You take a top two babyface worker of all time (strictly WWE) and put him in the ring with GOD MODE Austin calling the shots?* No wonder it's arguably the greatest TV match ever.
> 
> ALMOST REIGNS-HAAS QUALITY BABY :lol :lol :lol.


For a second I thought you were talking about Haas and Luther Reigns. :lol

Haas being the "top two babyface worker" and Reigns being "GOD MODE Austin". 

It IS the greatest TV match ever. WWE Network better show it in HD. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I rather watch the squash over the four way. 8*D


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Watching Story of Edge Disc 3 Starts with HBK/Edge from Rated RKO/DX days in 2007, pretty brutal street fight


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You seen their Street Fight from 2005? It's LOADS better.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Great American Bash 04 is fantastic!

Do you guys not remember the commentary from that show? :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why don't you imbeciles ever talk about the RAW Benoit/Austin match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c of popularity reasons.

can't be obscure


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Understandable. That's why we never get to talk about Psychosis. Or rather, we don't talk about him enough.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Luther Reigns AKA GOD MODE AUSTIN, he managed to get shit matches out of the Undertaker and MAYBE Eddie Guerrero. Idk, Eddie could have carried him at no mercy but I haven't seen it in a million years, remember the Bossman tribute at the end though .

JBL-EDDIE II is so underrated IMO, they kick the shit out of one another pretty bad in that one .

EDDIE MAKING THE FOUR CORNERS STIP WORK :mark:.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> You seen their Street Fight from 2005? It's LOADS better.


Rewatched that too, pretty awesome.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna finish GAB 04 tomorrow, feel like other shit 

Thinking about watching the ECW matches set I downloaded last night


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Gonna finish GAB 04 tomorrow, *feel like other shit*
> 
> Thinking about watching the *ECW matches* set I downloaded last night


Well, you certainly got that right .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao oh man that gif is awesome *steals*.

Go watch Christian in ECW.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm watching SVS 2011

And Jim=GOAT


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know Cody and gang will shit on me for loving it, but Jericho/Douglas/Pitbull #2/Scorpio from ECW Heatwave 96 is spectacular. I never in a million years thought I would be so encapsulated by Pitbull #2 fighting for the Television Title.

So yeah. ECW wasn't all shit. Now go watch Cane Dewey, SMITTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ya know, maybe watching some ECW stuff isn't that bad after all...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only if you're very careful and avoid that godawful lower/midcard. And some main events.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My post was in response to him watching SVS 2011. Even crappy ECW stuff is better to sit through .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its because I've never seen it before, will probably skip like half the show, including the ME


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, what can you do when talking to an individual that doesn't even consider rap to be music? Not like he has taste.

But back to the topic at hand. Who else liked Psychosis' feud with Ultimo Dragon when he aligned himself with Sonny Oono?


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Just watched the 6 man from Raw as it's airing in Australia now, and boy I can't wait to see Reigns fuck shit up in the Rumble.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I liked Ziggler/Morrison, if not for the energy the match presented, liked the ending with Ryder, crowd was kind of being dicks though. 


Watching the SVS tag, is Show/Henry worth it? or should I just watch Punk/ADR and move on?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought Punk/Del Rio was the 'not worth it', tbh. I didn't like Henry/Show all THAT much, but the WWE title match felt like it went 35 minutes and nothing happened. Best match was by far Ziggler/Swagger v. Bourne/Kofi. EDIT - hold on that wasn't SS, oh yeah, that PPV fucking sucked nvm. Just watch Vengeance instead (Bourne tag isn't even MOTN). EDIT AGAIN - man, Vengeance 2011 was a good show. 



King Cal said:


> Well, you certainly got that right .


OMG it wasn't all bad watch some fucking Scorpio and Tajiri I want to fucking rip your ginger hair out whenever you say this FUCK YOU.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> OMG it wasn't all bad watch some fucking Scorpio and Tajiri I want to fucking rip your ginger hair out whenever you say this FUCK YOU.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Del Rio ruled per usual.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They had a damn good match around the same time as SS at a house show that wasn't boring, at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

House show match I was at with them was pretty darn fun too. Punk threw a shoe at Ricardo who was about to burst into tears until Del Rio hugged him :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I know Cody and gang will shit on me for loving it, but Jericho/Douglas/Pitbull #2/Scorpio from ECW Heatwave 96 is spectacular. I never in a million years thought I would be so encapsulated by Pitbull #2 fighting for the Television Title.
> 
> So yeah. ECW wasn't all shit. Now go watch Cane Dewey, SMITTY.


I like ECW. I'm not Cal. Remember that match being long, a bit crazy overbooked in the end, but I was always into it. Pitbull #2 was pretty cool. Better than Douglas. However that feud between the two was crap. Their match from Barely Legal. Ugh. Kill me.



funnyfaces1 said:


> But back to the topic at hand. Who else liked Psychosis' feud with Ultimo Dragon when he aligned himself with Sonny Oono?


Kind of. It's fun to see them get their own program, but only one of their matches was good. Singles wise. Six man tags on TV were always good, but as far as what they produced on PPV - should have been more. Dragon locks up vs Regal in-between their series and it is 1000000x times better. Psychosis is still the man.



Yeah1993 said:


> I thought Punk/Del Rio was the 'not worth it', tbh. I didn't like Henry/Show all THAT much, but the WWE title match felt like it went 35 minutes and nothing happened. Best match was by far Ziggler/Swagger v. Bourne/Kofi. EDIT - hold on that wasn't SS, oh yeah, that PPV fucking sucked nvm. Just watch Vengeance instead (Bourne tag isn't even MOTN). EDIT AGAIN - man, Vengeance 2011 was a good show.


Henry vs Show is quite good. Maybe not as good as Vengeance or MITB, but still enough to round the series out. Wait, forgot about TLC. That's my least favorite match of their's. SS destroys that one. I like the SS match either way. MOTN. Not hard when the show it awful.

Vengeance 2011 is good stuff. Don't even like a few matches, but the ones I do are terrific.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Del Rio ruled per usual.


Heaven's no.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bam Bam Bigelow had some awesome ECW stuff.

Bam Bam Bigelow had awesome everything.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I LOVED the ECW fourway when I first and last watched it in mid-2012. It's gotten massive shit from some people and I'm kind of curious to watch it again. 


Douglas/Pitbull Barely Legal honestly might be one of my most awful memories watching wrestling. I don't think I've seen it since 2009 and I can still remember the feeling I had while watching it. It was like boredom + disgust + suicidal thoughts all rolled into one horrible emotion. Kind of like what I felt when I played Super Paper Mario (ECW >>>>>>>>>>). SMILEY FACE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember Jericho and Scorpio kinda disappointing me in that match, but that's about it for the negatives. Thankfully I never watched the Barely Legal match.

Bigelow/RVD might be Rob's best match.

What was so bad about Super Paper Mario? I was considering buying it five years ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those thoughts came through my mind when I had to sit through Santino/Emma vs Fandango/Summer Rae from last year on NXT. The NXT thread reminds me of the nightmare. People are insane.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Is Survivor Series 2009 a good dvd to pick up?

Is Over the Limit 2012 an awful ppv? I mean the freakin main event is John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis fpalm


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Triple threat for the WWE title is super fun. Can't think of anything else about it, except that I remember being surprised when Kofi beat Orton.

OTL 2012 has Punk/Bryan, which is a top 2-3 match that year. Not sure what people think of the Fatal four way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

OTL 2012 isn't really a terrible show. It's just treated very B-level. Cena vs Ace is expected garbage but you got Punk vs Danielson which wins most fans over along w/a good tag titles match and the rest of an undercard that isn't offensive. It's a decent show that ends on a wildly stupid note. That's all.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I enjoyed pretty much everything from OTL 2012.

Granted the only match I have seen more then once has been Punl/Danielson, but I remember enjoying the 4 way quite a bit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM PUNL


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why don't you imbeciles ever talk about the RAW Benoit/Austin match?


I was going to ask about this match the other day lol. How does it compare to the SD match?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

i like it as much as the SD match. high tempo, good story, good ending. idk i put it almost on par w/the SD match but i'm sure most would think i'm overrating it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're not overrating it at all. People should talk about it just as much as they talk about Angle/Austin here. And you guys talk about that match way too much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol talking about the best match in WWF too much? 

Not possible.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Then why don't you talk about Bret/Austin?

Better yet, let's talk about the greatest tag match ever from nearly 24 years ago. I hope you know what I'm referring to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Being cute gets you nowhere.

You best mean Midnight Express vs Southern Boys. Even tho it isn't WWF/WWE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's that time of the year to watch GAB 90. Those Stan Lane kicks :ti


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So, Downloading ALL COTC shows ATM :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Remind me to continue my COTC project from a few months ago. That Eddie Gilbert/Ron Simmons vs. Fantastics match :lenny


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The torrent failed so I'm not uploading it 

I'll find a way


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this:

*Sting vs Ric Flair vs Lex Luger - WCW Starrcade 1995 (Triangle-Triple Threat)*

x1a488r

Underrated IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Popping in my MITB 2010 DVD right now, forgot how underrated of a show this is


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Swagger vs. Rey is :moyes1

You know how a while ago, some of you were discussing matches you know all the way through because you've seen it that many times? Yeah, Swags/Rey is one of mine. A match I also refer to as well when arguing for Swagger. Will never understand how people can actively dislike Swagger. Maybe he's not many people's favourite, but at the very least he's a great worker.

I need to rewatch the whole event soon, though. Can't remember much besides the WHC match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Uploaded this:
> 
> *Sting vs Ric Flair vs Lex Luger - WCW Starrcade 1995 (Triangle-Triple Threat)*
> 
> Underrated IMO.


I swear, Flair carried the fuck out of that match. The Luger/Sting interactions were so bad, but cunning old man Flair makes anything interesting.

Starrcade 95 overall is a highly underrated show.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Uploaded this:
> 
> *Sting vs Ric Flair vs Lex Luger - WCW Starrcade 1995 (Triangle-Triple Threat)*
> 
> ...


This was a fun interesting match tbh, I'm a big fan of Sting( so hated the finish ) and I don't think I've seen many 3-way matches for him (I remember in TNA vs Christian/Angle and vs Christian/Abyss if I'm not mistaken), thanks for link, I give it around ***3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can I say that we got to the "only not so bad" kinda stuff - that's *PART 6* in a nutshell.

#foreshadowing


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's 30 YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA COUNTDOWN

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5


The following stuff is at or above the one-star rating. Which means the pain can heal faster I guess. I mean, think by the positive: compared to the 106 matches shown previously, these can be considered Flair/Steamboat in comparison. Well, sort of at least.

PART 6

180 - Tito Santana vs. The Barbarian, WM 6









179 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Goldust, WM 13









178 - The Radicalz vs. Too Cool & Chyna, WM 16









177 - Demolition vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Koji Kitao, WM 7









176 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WM 25









175 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, WM 7









174 - Tag Team Battle Royal, WM 14









(*1/4)
173 - Alundra Blayze vs. Leilani Kai, WM 10









172 - Battle Royal, WM 4









171 - Randy Savage vs. Crush, WM 10









170 - Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall, WM 18









































169 - Mr. Perfect vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 6









168 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, WM 20









167 - The APA & Tazz vs. Right To Censor, WM 17









166 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WM 29









(*1/2)
165 - Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, WM 12









164 - Gimmick Battle Royal, WM 17









163 - Brutus Beefcake vs. David Sammartino, WM 1









162 - Mr. Perfect vs. Lex Luger, WM 9









161 - The Hart Foundation vs. Rhythm & Blues, WM 5








*​


Spoiler: WM countdown



(DUD)
286 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 9
285 - The Big Show vs. Akebono, WM 21
284 - Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole, WM 27
283 - The Undertaker vs. The Big Bossman, WM 15
282 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar, WM 20
281 - Michelle McCool, Maryse, Layla, Alicia Fox & Vickie Guerrero vs. Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Eve Torres, Gail Kim & Kelly Kelly, WM 26
280 - Vince McMahon vs. Bret Hart, WM 26
279 - Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean, WM 15
278 - Divas Battle Royal, WM 25
277 - Terri Runnels vs. The Kat, WM 16
276 - Nikolai Volkoff vs. Corporal Kirschner, WM 2
275 - Owen Hart vs. Skinner, WM 8
274 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Bolsheviks, WM 6
273 - Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus, WM 28
272 - The Corre vs. Kane, The Big Show, Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella, WM 27
271 - Melina vs. Ashley Massaro, WM 23
270 - Beth Phoenix & Melina vs. Maria & Ashley Massaro, WM 24
269 - Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle, WM 22
268 - Sable vs. Tori, WM 15
267 - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Velvet McIntyre, WM 2
266 - Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer, WM 2
265 - Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire, WM 6
264 - Jim Duggan vs. Bad News Brown, WM 5
263 - The Fabulous Rougeaus vs. The Buschwackers, WM 5
262 - Men On A Mission vs. The Mounties, WM 10
261 - Andre The Giant vs. Jake Roberts, WM 5
260 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, WM 25
259 - Randy Savage vs. Butch Reed, WM 4
258 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules, WM 4
257 - Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb, WM 10
256 - Booker T & Sharmell vs. The Boogeyman, WM 22
255 - Torrie Wilson & Sable vs. Stacy Keibler & Jackie Gayda, WM 20
254 - Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T, WM 2
253 - Chyna vs. Ivory, WM 17
252 - The Allied Powers vs. The Blus Brothers, WM 11
251 - Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund, WM 9
250 - Roddy Piper vs. Bad News Brown, WM 6
249 - Earthquake vs. Hercules, WM 6
248 - Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme, WM 21
247 - Randy Savage vs. George Steele, WM 2
246 - Butch Reed vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 3
245 - Bobby Heenan vs. The Red Rooster, WM 5
244 - The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The New Blackjacks, WM 13
243 - Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka, WM 6
242 - Andre The Giant vs. Big John Studd, WM 1
241 - The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy, WM 11
240 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WM 4
239 - Money Inc. vs. The Natural Disasters, WM 8
238 - The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzales, WM 9
237 - Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, WM 11
236 - JBL vs. John Cena, WM 21
235 - Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & The Road Dogg, WM 16
234 - Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane, WM 24
233 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 12
232 - King Kong Bundy vs. SD Jones, WM 1
(1/4*)
231 - Rick Martel vs. Koko B. Ware, WM 6
230 - Beth Phoenix & Eve Torres vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos, WM 28
229 - Batista vs. Umaga, WM 24
228 - Paul Orndorff vs. Don Muraco, WM 2
227 - Kane vs. The Great Khali, WM 23
226 - Kerry Von Erich vs. Dino Bravo, WM 7
225 - Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo, WM 6
224 - Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection, WM 6
223 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
222 - Jake Roberts vs. George Wells, WM 2
221 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, WM 10
220 - Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown & Test, WM 15
219 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sid, WM 18
218 - Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow vs. Crash Holly, WM 15
217 - The Honky Tonk Man vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 4
216 - Rocky Maivia vs. The Sultan, WM 13
215 - Maven vs. Goldust, WM 8
214 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WM 27
213 - The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan vs. The Godfather & D-Lo Brown, WM 16
212 - Don Muraco vs. Dino Bravo, WM 4
211 - Sid vs. The Undertaker, WM 13
210 - Trish Stratus, John Morrison & Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler & LayCool, WM 27
209 - Greg Valentine vs. Earthquake, WM 7
208 - Mark Henry vs. Ryback, WM 29
207 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Power & Glory, WM 7
(1/2*)
206 - King Kong Bundy, Lord Littlebrooke & Little Tokyo vs. Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver & The Haiti Kid, WM 3
205 - Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel, WM 7
204 - The British Bulldog vs. The Warlord, WM 7
203 - Demolition vs. The Powers Of Pain, WM 5
202 - Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes, WM 3
201 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WM 11
200 - Money Inc. vs. Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake, WM 9
199 - Harley Race vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 3
198 - Demolition vs. Strike Force, WM 4
197 - Ronnie Garvin vs. Dino Bravo, WM 5
196 - The Big Bossman vs. Akeem, WM 6
(3/4*)
195 - The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff vs. The Killer Bees, WM 3
194 - Rick Martel vs. Tatanka, WM 8
193 - Jazz vs. Trish Stratus vs. Lita, WM 18
192 - Ted DiBiase vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 5
191 - Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco, WM 4
190 - The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock, WM 14
189 - Edge vs. Booker T, WM 18
188 - Tito Santana vs. The Executioner, WM 1
187 - Mankind vs. The Big Show, WM 15
186 - Doink The Clown vs. Crush, WM 9
(*)
185 - Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon vs. The Doinks, WM 10
184 - Randy Savage vs. The One Man Gang, WM 4
183 - The Dream Team vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus, WM 3
182 - Greg Valentine vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 1
181 - Bob Orton & Don Muraco vs. The Can-Am Connection, WM 3
180 - Tito Santana vs. The Barbarian, WM 6
179 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Goldust, WM 13
178 - The Radicalz vs. Too Cool & Chyna, WM 16
177 - Demolition vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Koji Kitao, WM 7
176 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WM 25
175 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, WM 7
174 - Tag Team Battle Royal, WM 14
(*1/4)
173 - Alundra Blayze vs. Leilani Kai, WM 10
172 - Battle Royal, WM 4
171 - Randy Savage vs. Crush, WM 10
170 - Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall, WM 18
169 - Mr. Perfect vs. Brutus Beefcake, WM 6
168 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, WM 20
167 - The APA & Tazz vs. Right To Censor, WM 17
166 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WM 29
(*1/2)
165 - Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, WM 12
164 - Gimmick Battle Royal, WM 17
163 - Brutus Beefcake vs. David Sammartino, WM 1
162 - Mr. Perfect vs. Lex Luger, WM 9
161 - The Hart Foundation vs. Rhythm & Blues, WM 5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this earlier:

*Billy Kidman vs Juventud Guerrera vs Psychosis vs Rey Mysterio - WCW Souled Out 1999*

x1a4qva


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Juventud Guerrera is my least favorite wrestler ever. Just look at that stupid douche face.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Juventud Guerrera is my least favorite wrestler ever. Just look at that stupid douche face.


Guerrera/Rey has always been one of my favorite sets of matches  Got a point about the face though


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

It'd take a lot for any wrestler to surpass Miz or Kofi on my all time disgust list.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone else find the 6-man tag from Raw this past Monday loads of fun? Some of the sequences were great. Loved Goldust's rolling senton to the outside. The Superman punch counter to Disaster Kick was :mark: and ROLLINS getting the pin with The Blackout was even more :mark:. Short but sweet match imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Was definitely the highlight of Raw. Take that for whatever it's worth :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still love Brock's return:






Havn't watched Raw yet, but judging by what i have read on here, Batista's wasn't quite as 'special'.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that return was unreal given the atmosphere. Batista's was fine, but there's something far different about "surprise" returns.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id like to wish Cena's hat all the best for the future. 

Yeah, ill probably watch Raw tomorrow. See what i make of The Animal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He was looking pretty FLY~!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Brock's return was one of those episodes where I wish I didn't log on to the forums before I watched Raw. My reaction would have been x7484237642 had I not known. Also, I love those returns where the pop is huge when the music hits but gets even BIGGER when the person actually walks out. Brock's was the perfect example.

Best part of Batista's return was him wearing AJ's jeans.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

same here FLUX


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

With The Animal's return I got to reflecting on some of his best matches in his last _main event run_. A Top 10 for Batista for me would look something like:

1. vs. Triple H (Hell In A Cell) - Vengeance 2005
2. vs. Undertaker - WrestleMania 23
3. vs. Undertaker (SCSA as Special Referee) - Cyber Sunday 2007
4. vs. Shawn Michaels (Stretcher Match) - One Night Stand 2008
5. vs. John Cena (Last Man Standing) - Extreme Rules 2010
6. w/Undertaker vs. John Cena & Shawn Michaels - No Way Out 2007
7. vs. Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) - Survivor Series 2007
8. vs. Undertaker (Last Man Standing) - Backlash 2007
9. vs. Chris Jericho (Cage Match) - Raw 11/03/2008
10. vs. John Cena - SummerSlam 2008

What am I missing?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think that pretty much covers it. If you want to throw in Chamber matches, NYR 05 and NWO 08 chambers come to mind.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I tried to keep big multi-man matches out of it but those would fit in just as well especially because he played prominent roles in both. Worked the 08 match from start to finish with Taker and the finish is still super dope. The NYR Chamber is still arguably the best Chamber match ever and he had that mark out staredown moment with Trips. JR's commentary for that moment was on fire!

Undertaker is without a doubt Batista's best opponent ever. They have had like 8 matches on PPV and TV and I think only one of them sucked.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> With The Animal's return I got to reflecting on some of his best matches in his last _main event run_. A Top 10 for Batista for me would look something like:
> 
> *1. vs. Triple H (Hell In A Cell) - Vengeance 2005*
> 2. vs. Undertaker - WrestleMania 23
> ...


Still my undisputed No.1. Fucking LOVE that match, and the Taker/Tista '07 feud is still one of my faves of all time TBH. Pretty much all of their matches are excellent (bar that chairs match in 09 i believe )


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique said:


> I tried to keep big multi-man matches out of it but those would fit in just as well especially because he played prominent roles in both. Worked the 08 match from start to finish with Taker and the finish is still super dope. The NYR Chamber is still arguable the best Chamber match ever and he had that mark out staredown moment with Trips. JR's commentary for that moment was on fire!
> 
> Undertaker is without a doubt Batista's best opponent ever. They have had like 8 matches on PPV and TV and I think only one of them sucked.


Yeah, agreed 100% on everything you said. NYR 05 is probably one of my favorite matches of all time, along with it being the best Chamber. I was there live for the 08 one and him/Taker renewing their 07 rivalry was awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone notice the 'We want Sting' sign on Raw


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The psychology implemented from Jericho in this match (connect how he works on Batista's knee) is a thing of beauty. There are actually a couple notably brilliant moments here. I was always was fond of this Raw main event:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember that match AT ALL. Will have to watch now.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jericho was sooo damn good during his heel run in 2008-2009. I'm a big fan of the Michaels feud and Mysterio series of matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. Promos/matches against Michaels. :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Tista vs Taker for the World Heavyweight title from Smackdown 4/25/08 was pretty damn great from what I remember. It was the one with the HBK interference. Nothing compared to their 2007 encounters but damn good as far as WWE 08 matches go.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed. Promos/matches against Michaels. :mark:


This all day long. :mark: Plus the Rey series.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the Rey series is gold as well. Damn, that really was a good heel run.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for posting that cage match - watching it now. Also, good list. HIAC is my favorite Hunter match of all time, and includes some of JR at his finest. 

Also, Batista and Rey vs Jericho and Show at HiAC 2009 is a really fun tag match.

Good God, Jericho/Michaels in 2008 :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I also remember a couple of good Rey/Batista vs MNM matches, one was a cage match on SD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MNM :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching that cage match though made me remember why I don't love cage matches. Some of the logic just wrecks me. Batista's standing at the door with the door open with Jericho on the mat after being pulled back in and you'd think that Batista would want to get out with that bad leg, but he doesn't. Also how someone will climb up and get with the other guy not even off the mat yet. Then the guy climbing basically chills up there until his opponent reaches him. 

Oh well, I liked the finish of the Batista/Jericho one, though, with the knee work coming back into play.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Rey/Batista matches were great for me. Not too high on the Survivor Series 09 match but eh. 

I'm a big fan of their Street Fight on Smackdown, mainly due to Batista's heel performance which ruled. The chairshot finish to it was kinda weak though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> The psychology implemented from Jericho in this match (connect how he works on Batista's knee) is a thing of beauty. There are actually a couple notably brilliant moments here. I was always was fond of this Raw main event:


Watched this a couple of weeks ago. Pretty fun match and way better than the Cyber Sunday one.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss that Jericho. :sad: I haven't much cared for him since that run ended. Not as high on his 2012 stuff w/Punk as others are, and his 2013 return was embarrassing (though I tip my hat to him returning and putting people over).


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Anyone like Batista's Royal Rumble 07 match with Mr. Kennendy? Thought that match turned out better than expected considering neither men are in-ring generals which is usually what they needed to create even something of half decent quality. Undertaker is also Kennedy's best opponent too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I have a feeling quite a few people can say that about Taker.

*enter Cal at any moment*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

And to pimp that Kennedy/Taker match from Germany.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MITB 2010 Ratings(what I watched)

SD MITB: ****
Rey/Swagger:****
RAW MITB: ***3/4
Cena/Sheamus:***

pretty good show for 2010 :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> Anyone like Batista's Royal Rumble 07 match with Mr. Kennendy? Thought that match turned out better than expected considering neither men are in-ring generals which is usually what they needed to create even something of half decent quality. Undertaker is also Kennedy's best opponent too.


It's a solid match and much better than it had any right being. Helped that they kept it at 10 minutes instead of letting it run for 20 minutes which is something Kennedy just couldn't do unless his best opponent carried him to it... none other than Benoit. 

Wasn't high on the Taker matches very much other than Armageddon.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho was JeriGOAT in 2008. I actually really liked the Cyber Sunday match against Batista. He also had two very good cage matches on RAW that year. Also had those two supreme bouts with Cena. Oh, and some hidden gems with the likes of Jeff Hardy and Umaga. And last but not least, he took part in the greatest feud of all-time. So yeah, Jericho is worth a million Lenny smileys.

Need to rewatch Batista/Rey, but I don't remember liking any of their matches. Definitely don't remember anything about them except for that chair ending that Irrelevant mentioned in one of their matches. Mysterio/Swagger is HNNNGGG! MITB 2010 rules except for the sucky main event. Holy crap, Cena did not give a damn about that match. But that's how 2/3 of Cena's gimmick matches are. Dude should never be around ladders, tables, and cages or take part in an I Quit match ever again. Stick him in a last man standing match and call it a day.

I only liked three matches in Mr. Kennedy's illustrious career. One was a Benoit carryjob, another one was the LMS match with Bully Ray last year, and the final one was a cage match with Angle that definitely won't hold up if I watch it again. Curse that man!

EDIT: Woops, I forgot about the RR 07 match with Batista. The Undertaker matches sucked except maybe the Germany match that I could never find.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Match suggestion anyone?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)




----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Oh shit! Just got to see Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls match. People have been raving about this match ever since it happened and I never got around to it until tonight and I am hyped to have witness _that_. Every fall meant something. Was not contrived at all with the pacing or the falls which can be a drawback in these matches at times. Cesaro is just godly with his strength.

I also re-watched Orton vs. Bryan from Slammy's Raw and it is still an outstanding TV match. Orton & Bryan's best together by far. The selling from both men throughout the match is on another level. Love the dirty finish too as it put more heat on Orton as he robbed the viewers of a victor in this compelling wrestling contest.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Match suggestion anyone?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Pillman/Badd match reminded me a lot of Eddie Guerrero's carryjobs where he played a conflicted heel so well. Pillman in the same sense carried Badd to a 1995 MOTYC all through his conflicted character in the match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

gonna watch both 

thanks guys


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I only liked three matches in Mr. Kennedy's illustrious career. One was a Benoit carryjob


Which one? The 2006 match where Benoit wins the US Title or the one in early 2007 when Chavo interferes?

I enjoyed both but the former more.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Clique said:


> Oh shit! Just got to see Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls match. People have been raving about this match ever since it happened and I never got around to it until tonight and I am hyped to have witness _that_. Every fall meant something. Was not contrived at all with the pacing or the falls which can be a drawback in these matches at times. Cesaro is just godly with his strength.
> 
> I also re-watched Orton vs. Bryan from Slammy's Raw and it is still an outstanding TV match. Orton & Bryan's best together by far. The selling from both men throughout the match is on another level. Love the dirty finish too as it put more heat on Orton as he robbed the viewers of a victor in this compelling wrestling contest.


2/3 falls is amazing, but watch the match they had before that one. I think it's the second in their series, with the 2/3 falls being the final one. Also watch Zayn/Swagger if you haven't. AND Zayn/Kruger from I think the end of 2013 or the first of 2014. Dat Zayn :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> 2/3 falls is amazing, but watch the match they had before that one. I think it's the second in their series, with the 2/3 falls being the final one. Also watch Zayn/Swagger if you haven't. AND Zayn/Kruger from I think the end of 2013 or the first of 2014. Dat Zayn :mark:


Will keep those in mind for later. About to get into some Rollins vs. Ambrose. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

From FCW? Rollins, Ambrose, and Reigns had a triple threat in FCW when Reigns was still going by Leakee. Remember it being pretty good.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Um, C2D, I actually loved Orton/Kingston at TLC 2009. Had never intended on watching it, because it doesn't sound like the most appealing thing in the world, but someone on this board said it was good, so I took a look. Actually really loved it. Was shocked by how much I liked it.

Orton came off as sinister and meticulous. They use methodical a lot and it can be overused, but he was sublimely methodical here, and the repeated foot stomps to the abdomen seemed much more fiery and purposeful than usual.

I also liked Kofi matching Orton in fiery moments, and that Orton drop kick counter on the outside was gorgeous and impeccably timed. Made me gasp, and I like how you can tell that the commentators were genuinely reacting to that. 

Also fucking love how Orton jumps into people coming off of the top rope doing crossbodys...always helps make the move look more spectacular than it really is. It's the little things like that, that don't get credited or noticed, but it really helps in putting his opponents over by making their shit look good.

These are just moments, but I thought the whole match was great, and I was hoping that it would go on for longer.

In some ways, it almost reminded me of 1.2.3 Kid/Bret, in that Kofi would almost seem to have Orton down at various points, and he'd have some well-timed offense just when Orton was re-establishing the upper hand. This, of course, was to a lesser level than the Kid/Bret match in that regard, because in this one Orton was more dominant, but it reminded me a bit of that vibe, with the plucky upstart not fully going away. Here it was more short bursts by Kingston. 

Liked what happened with the punt, though I was confused at first. I liked how Orton immediately recognized what happened, and zoned in on that...immediately reestablishing dominance after Kingston made that last gasp for salvation.

Just a smartly worked match, and Orton was firing on all cylinders here, though it's no surprise, because it's pretty much been established that Orton in '09 can virtually do no wrong with me. Nice to see this falling right in line.

****



Some other random matches I've watch:

Cena vs. Christian vs Jericho at Vengeance '05. This was fun, and there were some cool spots that I haven't seen before. This was a match that moved quickly and breezed right by, so it was an enjoyable watch. Being that Jericho is capable of being a smarmy bastard, and apparently so is Christian...I felt there could have been much more in the way of character work here. Still, it was fun.

*** 1/4 - *** 1/2.


Kane vs. Austin (First Blood) at KoTR '98. I don't know why I had such high expectations for this, but I did for some reason. Felt really disappointed. Had to force myself to finish it. Typical Attitude Era brawling, but didn't feel any real heat. The raising and lowering of the cell was interesting for the first two seconds it happened, but then I felt it got annoying with no real conclusion (though obviously I assume it was done to fuck with Austin by Vince), and no interesting usage of all of that happening. At least do some cool things with Austin getting stuck as the cage gets raised or something.

I lol'ed at JR's continuous reminders that Austin's back scratch didn't count.

Why was Undertaker throwing gasoline on the ref? Couldn't be bothered to even look for answers. MEH.

* 3/4. 


Kane vs. Austin at Monday Night RAW the next night. This was infinitely better. Austin seemed much more motivated, the hot crowd helped, and it actually felt like a match worth investing in. This should have been the match the night before.

***.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I hate that match, hate everything but Mcintyre/Morrison from that show :lol


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> From FCW? Rollins, Ambrose, and Reigns had a triple threat in FCW when Reigns was still going by Leakee. Remember it being pretty good.


About to watch this 30 minute match they had down in Florida Championship Wrestling. I have seen two matches that took place prior to this one that were highly enjoyable so with more time I am looking forward to more goodness.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rollins/Ambrose FCW matches were definitely great. Last one of those matches I watched was actually that 30 Minute Time Limit FCW Championship match, interestingly.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So just watched Flair/Steamboat COTC for the first time

***** match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kingston/Orton from TLC 2009 was pretty good. I really liked that feud. Kofi was awesome during it.

Kane/Austin sucked. The first blood match was dumb, and the RAW match afterwards was awful. The story of that match was based on Austin's injured arm, but Austin did not sell it at all. Just terrible, unacceptable wrestling. Kane sucked during that time too.

I don't think I'll ever "get" Cena/Christian/Jericho. That match is so boring and the wrong person won.

The Rollins/Ambrose series was really what made Ambrose a favorite of the IWC, and for good reason. Dude was popular in CZW, but he was never a true "indie star".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> So just watched Flair/Steamboat COTC for the first time
> 
> ***** match


It doesn't get any better than that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wrestlewar match used to be my favorite from the series, but then I watched the 2/3 Falls match for the second time in my life and came to my senses. Yup, it doesn't get better than that and Bret/Austin.

Henry/Goldberg did not hold up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch it again. It's awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think the very short period where I actually enjoyed Goldberg has worn off. I just don't get that rush of energy that you get from watching him. I'm not very interested in a face ransacking over competition because at some point, it just gets dull. Yeah, his spear is nice and he's very powerful, but I want more than just that. Granted, it was never his prime directive to do more, but that doesn't mean I have to like him because he is limited.

What else is worth watching from RAW in 2003?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But Goldberg used any notion of being "limited" and shoved that back in everyone's face by trumping that on nearly every outing. There doesn't need to be these lines wrestlers have to stay in to have a match be 'good' or 'great'. Goldberg matches can rank right up next to someone like Eddie Guerrero's for why his were great, different reasons altogether. Brock Lesnar does the same exact thing, but b/c he can grapple or worked longer matches, it's supposed to be different?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes. Once again, after time, watching the same exact match gets boring. I value versatility in a wrestler, and frankly I just don't see it in Goldberg.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should have just laughed in my last post if that was the answer I was going to get.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

oh shit that henry/goldberg is another MOTYC for 03


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There are ten wrestlers from Smackdown in 2003 whose worst matches were nearly as good as Henry/Goldberg. Maybe even more than ten.

Then again, that really isn't saying much. I also watched some other matches from RAW that year just now (Goldberg/Michaels, RVD/HHH, Kane/HHH, Rock/Hurricane). Nothing that good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know the only Triple H matches worth watching on RAW in 2003 were the championship matches vs Flair & Michaels. Maybe one of those tags vs Booker/Goldust leading to WM, b/c Booker & Goldust as a team was brilliant. I should watch that sometime this week, tbhayley. I like how this bit turned into appreciation for a tag team that deserves it. Instead of treading the waters that is common place: RAW circa 2003 - not the hottest bed for the best matches.

Skins knows what's up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly don't remember the Vitamin C/BookDust match in June 2003. Should definitely check it out along with Jericho/Nash. For some reason, I remember loving Jericho/Nash when I watched it live, but I think I was just happy to see Jericho keep his hair. But yeah, Vitamin C/BookDust. Their No Mercy, Raw 12/2/02, RAW 12/21/02, and Armageddon Four-Way Tag matches are all at least four Lenny smileys out of five. Maybe it's worth watching the Storm/Regal vs. BookDust series too. Were those hidden gems?

Ah who am I kidding? Of course they are.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

It's unfair how stacked Smackdown's roster was compared to Raw's in 02-03. 

Lesnar
Angle
Show
Benoit
Guerrero
Mysterio
Taker
WGTT
Tajiri
Kidman
Edge
Rhyno
Hardy
Cena

The depth was down right ridiculous. SD even had the hotter divas.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Vengeance 2002 - The Rock vs The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle *****1/4*
The Rock vs Eddie Guerrero, Raw ****3/4*
Stone Cold vs The Rock, WM 19 *****1/4*

Angle when Rock and Taker stare down and ignore him :lmao "Hey, I'm in this match too" :lmao Sure got our fair share of suplexes early in this match, though they are a thing of beauty. What a match! Probably one of my top 4-5 favorite triple threat matches. There are two big finisher-hitting segments in the match, and they're done really well. The first one early one has each one hitting everyone else's finishers, which is cool. The final stretch is pretty exciting, and I love Angle countering the Last Ride into the triangle choke, with Taker trying to unlock it, but Angle finally locking it in, only for the Rock to break it up before Taker's arm could drop a third time. Following a rollup attempt by the Rock on Angle, Taker hits a chokeslam on Angle and Rock hits a Rock Bottom on Taker for a close 2 count. Angle looks to roll up Rock, but only gets 2. Taker hits Rock with a big boot, and Angle hits the Angle Slam on Taker. As Angle pulls the straps down, Rock catches Angle with a Rock Bottom for the 1-2-3, winning the Undisputed title. I really like Angle as heel, and thought his work in this match was entertaining. 

It really is too bad we never got a proper Rock/Eddie program, because I'm sure that would have gone down as one of the greatest feuds we'd ever see. Both guys could go on the mic, and Eddie's heel demeanor was just classic. This match is pretty much a sprint, with Eddie having a nice control segment in there. That Rock bottom counter into a pin was pretty sweet. 

Rock/Austin at Mania 19 is one those matches that I can watch over and over and my emotions are the same every time. I get chills every time Austin lands on the back of his head and sells the shit out of every landing, from the spinebuster to all three Rock bottoms. The knee work on Austin is great, and Rock taunting the way only he can: putting on Austin's vest, congratulating himself after hitting the low blow on Austin, giving middle fingers on the People's Elbow attempt. And I've said a million times, but JR's commentary just gives me goosebumps. The way he goes nuts when Austin kicks out of the two Rock Bottoms at the end, and the way he sells Rock's sell of the stunner is just incredible.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

What do you guys think of King of the Ring 2001? 

I remember loving this PPV with the brutal street fight and the great triple threat main event!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. Evolution :mark:

Best Orton promo I've seen in ages.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

So I'm two episodes of Raw away from Over the Edge 1999 and I'm debating whether to watch it or not. Has anyone seen it? It appears that Taker won the title that night which seems kinda crazy considering what happened earlier so I feel like I should watch it. 

I probably won't bother to review it, but I'm not sure if I should even watch it.

I'm not looking forward to that post-PPV Raw either. Man this whole thing has been dumb. Three weeks before the PVP they bring back the Blue Blazer gimmick (that hasn't been seen in months) for absolutely no reason. It was dumb when they were doing it in 98 and it's even dumber in 99. I hate watching segments where Owen shows up with that outfit knowing what the outcome of the pointlessness is.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

6 man tag was fun. DAT SUPERMAN PUNCH!

What do people think of Big E as a worker? He looked decent there. I still can't take him seriously but he didn't look bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOTR 2001 was OK, I guess. Angle/Shane was pretty sick and the Triple Threat had its moments. Though I know many dislike both of these.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> 6 man tag was fun. DAT SUPERMAN PUNCH!
> 
> What do people think of Big E as a worker? He looked decent there. I still can't take him seriously but he didn't look bad.


Like Reigns, Big E still has alot of work to do.. but I find him very charismatic and could be a legit if he can get better at promos and in the ring..

I think by 2015 into 2016 Roman Reigns will be a main eventer and Big E will be on the cusp of main eventing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Reigns is the man. He's not the finished article but there's a ton of potential there. Last couple matches I've seen him in he's done this stunned sell for impact moves to the head and it looks great. Maybe he's been doing it all along but it only just stuck out to me. When he gets rocked (Cody with the Disaster Kick and Punk the week before) he won't sell it like death because it's not enough to really hurt him but he will sell it more than enough to make it clear that he's phased. Makes him look strong yet vulnerable at the same time. Most big guys try to do it but I don't know, Reigns isn't a giant like Show or Henry so it's different. Right now I feel like I'm rambling, point is it looks good and I like it. Haven't seen enough of Big E to have a concrete opinion and I still think he looks ridiculous to the point that I'm not interested in watching his matches but it seems like he's improved his timing.

Punk/Kane is so bleh.

Del Rio/Mysterio was good. I felt like Mysterio's comeback and the finishing stretch fell short of the high standard Rey has set for himself over the years but even so the guy is still clearly above the majority of the roster. Not sure how Del Rio/Batista will mesh when that happens. I'm down to see that match-up though.

Seriously looking forward to :brock v :show this Sunday.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's scary how much I'd prefer Punk vs Kane over all the other bullshit WWE is producing atm.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I didn't know it was possible but the end to that episode of Raw made me want to see Cena/Orton even less.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Common thought process came over all of us.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GETAWAY CAR rton2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lol

So much confusion w/this booking department. To beat the dead horse yet again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this earlier:

*Ric Flair & Sting vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - WCW Clash Of The Champions VIII 09/12/1989*

x1a5zh6

Quality match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MUTA :mark:


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

The get away car is dumb enough by did they ever explain why Cena was late?

Reigns is the fucking man, re-watched the TLC 2012 match and to see how far he's come is crazy.

Also can anyone give me a good program/website to download DailyMotion, ILivid wont download off Dailymotion for me for some reason


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

downloadhelper. net it's a FF extension.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flash Video Downloader is also a good extension IMO.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks lads!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Reigns is the future, then the WWE has a great future, the guy is pretty much one of the best combinations of power, speed, and passion that I've ever seen. Dude is oozing with charisma and has a boss fucking move set as well with the superman punch and the spear, honestly I think he should be booked as pretty much undefeatable in a one on one contest, then you can have a plethora of people challenging him such as SHEAMUS, Brock, Cena, etc... He's one of the non TOP drawing talent that I wanna see mix it up with the part timers and the bigger names, make it happen WWE by GAWD.

I hate how Rollins is kind of being treated as an afterthought to the brewing Reigns-Ambrose tension, even if I'm growing to absolutely love Dean after watching the Punk matches. THE BLACKOUT :mark:.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm not completely on the Reigns bandwagon yet. Yeah he's good and I'm sure he has a bright future, but I'm still not convinced he's 'all that' tbh.

Rollins >>>>>>>>>, IMO.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

NotoriousTCG said:


> The get away car is dumb enough by did they ever explain why Cena was late?


Every single time there has been reason to hear Cena pipe up about something he's been late. Not just late but barely making it before the close of the show late. I realise it's done for effect (you cannot have your biggest programme close mid-Raw) but, considering it happens each and every time, it makes Cena's words of being a workhorse and loving the business completely phony, from a kayfabe perspective.

How can you honestly claim to love as well as bleed for a job that you can never be on time for? Every other talent has to check in early and wrestle yet Cena can do whatever he wishes. Ookay.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Just bought Summerslam 2013 on blu ray. Any other shows from 2013 worth buying? And the exras on the blu ray are:


WWE United States Championship
Dean Ambrose vs. Rob Van Dam
SummerSlam Kickoff – August 18, 2013

Blu-ray Exclusives

Monday Night RAW – August 12, 2013:
- Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett
- Randy Orton vs. Damien Sandow
- Mr. McMahon Picks a Special Referee for SummerSlam
- Miz TV with John Cena & Daniel Bryan
- CM Punk vs. Paul Heyman

SmackDown – August 16, 2013:
- Bray Wyatt Tells a Story About Kane
- Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett (No DQ Match)

Any of those worth checking out?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bryan/Barrett No DQ was decent, IIRC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Barrett was a blast. The RAW match w/'em was fun too.

Skip the other bonus match from RAW. DUD x100.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Miz TV segment is :mark: IIRC

Here's the GAB 04 review, only 2 matches were good as expected 



Spoiler: GAB 2004 review



*
The Great American Bash 2004 review 

FUN FACT: I live about 15 minutes from where this was held (Norfolk, VA) and have been there several times, but for some reason WWE decides to never come back 

Match #1: RVD vs Booker T vs Renee Dupree vs John Cena​*

Interesting enough idea here to open up the show, not expecting that much, but hopefully it won’t be too boring. Decent brawl to start off the match, they talk about how Angle is butthurt over the act that Cena's champion. LOLWTF, Cena is the US champion, why does angle give a fuck about that? Why the hell is Booker out of the ring, looks like hes just chillin for some reason, fuck him I guess. This is boring as fuck so far, half the guys in the match are just chillin on the outside, fucking faggotry. Can we get another PPV at the scope plz! Would love to have a 10-15 min ride to a PPV, even if its like a shitty one. Match still sucks though, boring chant should break out, luckily Cena and RVD are carrying the match, but not enough to make it good. This gets a ridiculous amount of time, its not good enough that it deserves over 10 minutes, or maybe it just felt that long, BORING is the theme of this shitfest. *

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match #2: Charlie Haas vs Luther Reigns*

I don’t want to NO 4 matches, so I’ll skip this and watch the Suzuki match. NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Gurrero 
*
:mark:, one of 2 matches I actually want to see, other being JBL/Eddie of course. Pretty pumped for this, as apparently its the best Chavo match ever, and I liked the NWO match a ton so expecting good things here. Fun match early on, just like I expected it to be no doubt. What’s surprised me is that this hasn't had a ton of. What it has had is solid work all around and some good psychology (even if I hate using that word. Rey is doing a really good job of working the arm, I actually like the selling by Chavo too. Crowd doesn't seem into it at all, which is weird since this is awesome so far. Chavo's doing a great job of working the leg, Rey's selling is top notch as usual. There’s one guy in the crowd who’s always yelling CHAVO! loudly, fuck that guy and his family. So far this is easily my favorite Chavo Gurrero match ever, and I'm not even that big of a fan of him, but I usually like his matches with Rey. Fantastic match all around, I enjoyed basically every minute of it par a few dull spots. Glad that I found a Chavo match that actually can say is GREAT. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5

Match #4: Kenzo Suzuki vs Billy Gunn *

Yes I’m watching this, mainly because I don’t want to NO 4 matches because I’m for sure skipping the divas match and the Mordeci match. I had no idea that Billy Gunn was still in the WWE at this time, must have been a jobber. Never seen anything from this guy but apparently he sucks, not too surprising, Japanese wrestlers not names Tajiri usually suck in the WWE. Well this match is fucking dull, neither guy clearly doesn't give a shit and they're just going through the motions. Man, this Kenzo guy is fucking awful, so is Billy Gunn. Crowd doesn't give a shit for good reason, this is terrible, one of my least favrite PPV matches ever. DUD 

*CAL SCALE: 0

Match #5: Sable vs Torrie Wilson 

NO*

*CAL SCALE: -1

Match #6: Mordeci vs Bob Holly *

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1

Match #7: JBL vs Eddie Gurrero 
*
Really interested in how you make a bull rope match entertaining, because it sounds like a terrible concept TBH. Then again its Eddie and JBL so maybe I should expect that. Not expecting this to live up to the JD classic but I expect a great match. So this is kind of like a strap match, except with a a longer rope, so maybe I will like this because they'll always be in contact with each other. JBL heelin it up early by choking Eddie with the rope, doubt thats all he's gonna do :lol. I wish the object of this wasn't the whole corner thing, should be normal rules outside of the rope. At least these guys aren't pulling a Henry vs Sheamus and ONLY touching the lights, these guys are putting the wrestling first. Match is tons of fun so far, not as brutal as their original match, but still a ton of fun. I like how both guys are effectively using the ropes to their advantage, makes the match a lot more exciting. I loved this, JBL was such a great heel and Eddie as usual played a fantastic babyface. The fact that these 2 made one of the worst gimmick matches ever work into an awful gimmick match and turn it into an awesome match. I wish Eddie went over though, but JBL had a great reign as well. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5 

Match #8: The Undertaker vs the Dudleyz 
*
Not looking forward to this AT ALL, as apparently it’s one of the worst Taker matches ever, which means it’s not gonna be a fun match to watch at all. I have no idea what’s going on, Paul Bearer is in the cement and Heyman is managing the Dudleyz, this is a mess already. There are people LEAVING in the back, they probably think that the WWE title match was the ME and this like a dark match :lmao. Heyman is saying bad dog to Taker, this is fucking strange. A little surprised that WWE is allowing a public execution on its programming would think that would be against the rules or something like that. This feels like a storyline and not a match. Meanwhile, Paul Bearer is killed and no one seems to care, this is weird as fucking shit, dont think I've ever seen a match like this before, dont even know if I can call this a match though, its like a RAW match, but a terrible one. The wrestling isn't even what's important but its still sucking, thank god this looks like it isn't going to get a ridiculous ton of time. This blows, maybe my least favorite taker match of all time, just laughably bad. 1/4*

*CAL SCALE: 0

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 7 

CURRENT 2004 PPV rankings

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: Wrestlemania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood(12)
5: Judgment day( 9.5) 
6: Royal Rumble (8)
7: The Bash (7)
*​


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Reigns is the future, and he doesn't improve a bazillion times over between now and then, the future is very very bleak. Honestly, I can't wait until Reigns finally breaks off from The Shield, to see if everyone singing praises for Reigns right now completely turns on him because he's exposed as complete shit talent-wise (unless as I said, he improves between now and then DRASTICALLY). Right now he does fine in a team, but all of his singles matches he's had (which there are only a handful of, thankfully) have been terrible. I get the potential people see in him based on his look and intensity (I see the potential as well despite my posts on him), but I'm struggling with understanding how he's gotten to be this big IWC favorite at this point, especially from the looks of it, in this thread. He does some cool spots in tag matches, but nothing I would've ever imagined would get people on his bandwagon to this extent.

Honestly, at this point, I'd take Big E over him any day of the week (and he's shit as well).

---

On Barrett/Bryan, don't remember that Raw match too well. Was that the one Barrett won? I remember it being decent, but their SD No DQ and Cage matches were much better. That cage match was great stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three singles matches I can think of from Reigns have been better than the majority of Damien Sandow's career.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Three singles matches I can think of from Reigns have been better than the majority of Damien Sandow's career.


:lmao

Sandow's worst two minute matches are better than all of Reigns' singles matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sandow :ti

The Reigns hate is just because ppl dont like how the guy has the look

AKA: We want more vanilla midgets


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone needs to keep supporting him now that Pyro gave up.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I like him I guess, still about 10-15 guys I'd rather see win the title before him though

The matches with Cena are great though


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SMITTY said:


> Sandow :ti
> 
> The Reigns hate is just because ppl dont like how the guy has the look
> 
> AKA: We want more vanilla midgets


Like I said, when Reigns is on his own weekly, we'll see what happens. I don't "hate" Reigns, I "hate" Alberto Del Rio if anyone. I just don't get the overwhelming Reigns love, it actually took me by surprise when it became apparent 90% of the people in this thread and on this forum seem to love Reigns. I somewhat understood it before he exposed himself in those horrible Henry and Punk matches from the last month, but now? I'm baffled, but until he gets an undeserved mega-push, which he hasn't as of yet, I can't bring myself to "hate" him. 

Although based on the responses, I think Reigns could just stand in the corner looking at his opponent for 10 minutes and you guys would still call it a good match. :lmao



> Someone needs to keep supporting him now that Pyro gave up.


Not even about that, it's just about him being a million times the talent Reigns is, and being far more deserving of a World Title than him right now. However with the World Title gone, that's never going to happen, while Reigns certainly will get the title at some point.

If anyone has any good Reigns matches, please prove me wrong. Don't post the recent ones with Punk and Henry though as those suck imo and I have no interest in seeing them again anytime soon.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MY PERSONAL Reigns hate (not hate, more not understanding/buying the hype YET) stems from him proving very little to warrant such love and support. Having a few "mediocre at best" singles matches with DANIEL BRYAN, CM PUNK AND MARK HENRY doesn't mean you're a great worker or performer. He has - arguably - been protected more than anybody else on the roster with this booking and how he is used in the Shield six man tags. He has his recognizable spots which the audience has connected with and thats what he sticks to. Has he really proven he can hang? Has he really shown that he can be the face of the company? No. Is that to say he hasn't impressed? Of course he's impressed, but I think a lot of that is because Rollins and Ambrose had a following before The Shield whereas Reigns didn't, so Reigns hanging with those guy as part of the unit has turned some heads and raised some eyebrows.

I'm not hating on Reigns, I just don't buy the hype yet. But I think that he has the capabilities and potential to make me a believer, he just hasn't done so yet or hasn't had the platform as an individual to do so.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I still prefer Rollins, but Reigns to me could be a Goldberg type, except a lot better 

Cesaro needs to win the title though, soon


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FLUX said:


> MY PERSONAL Reigns hate (not hate, more not understanding/buying the hype YET) stems from him proving very little to warrant such love and support. Having a few "mediocre at best" singles matches with DANIEL BRYAN, CM PUNK AND MARK HENRY doesn't mean you're a great worker or performer. He has - arguably - been protected more than anybody else on the roster with this booking and how he is used in the Shield six man tags. He has his recognizable spots which the audience has connected with and thats what he sticks to. Has he really proven he can hang? Has he really shown that he can be the face of the company? No. Is that to say he hasn't impressed? Of course he's impressed, but I think a lot of that is because Rollins and Ambrose had a following before The Shield whereas Reigns didn't, so Reigns hanging with those guy as part of the unit has turned some heads and raised some eyebrows.
> 
> I'm not hating on Reigns, I just don't buy the hype yet. But I think that he has the capabilities and potential to make me a believer, he just hasn't done so yet or hasn't had the platform as an individual to do so.


I think this sums it up perfectly. 



> I still prefer Rollins, but Reigns to me could be a Goldberg type, except a lot better
> 
> Cesaro needs to win the title though, soon


I'd take both Rollins and Ambrose>>>>>>>>>>>> Reigns. Reigns being a Goldberg type character, while I was a huge fan of Goldberg as a kid and would be a great nostalgia moment if he returned, doesn't particularly get me looking forward to Reigns in the future. 

Glad someone brought up Cesaro. Cesaro I'm not as big on as the lot of you in this thread, but I can at least understand where you guys come from in your marking for him. The guy is a BEAST in the ring and has incredible strength that's always exciting to see. However, he's another guy I never see getting the top title. His only chance at having a World Championship is if they split the titles up again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Reigns just has that IMPACT (no, not TNA) factor that very few people have. Makes all of his offense look believable and intense, makes little things seem big such as his punches (think he has some of the best striking offense in the company) and holds. To compare him to Rollins and Ambrose is hard to do because all three have different styles of work, it is what it is.

They're all BEAST. That's all I care about TBH, they need to be the future.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Fuck Ambrose, Reigns is loads better than that guy

Thinking about watching the 07 rumble


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Fuck Ambrose, Reigns is loads better than that guy
> 
> Thinking about watching the 07 rumble


In your opinion :batista4

I wonder if opinions would be different if Reigns was the one with the INDY HYPE~! and Ambrose was the WWE-built guy. I think a lot of people's disdain for Ambrose is simply because he had a lot of hype and some people feel he hasn't lived up to said hype, despite the fact that most, if not all, of his previous fanfare has stemmed from his promo work and character work as a singles guy, something that even though singles champ, he's had very little chance to showcase, so I think the disappointment is unjustified and unfair.

Once again begs the question if people's opinions would be different if he didn't come in with such high expectations.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's no large conspiracy why someone enjoys a wrestler. They just do. No internet bullshit, nothing. Ugh at all that crap anyways. Why even question it if you see more than one guy doing so? Does it really matter or burn you up? That's nothing short of :ti

Unsure why people are jumping to stupid WWE motifs like "next face of the company" anyways. Christian is orgasmic as anyone to come down the pike but nobody is spouting off about junk like that. We just know he's better than most and accept reality. Same goes for anyone else in the same boat - Cesaro, for a recent example.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Vengeance 2002 - The Rock vs The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle *****1/4*
> The Rock vs Eddie Guerrero, Raw ****3/4*
> Stone Cold vs The Rock, WM 19 *****1/4*
> 
> ...


Ahh yes. Rock/Eddie. That match with Eddie, was a pretty fun bout. Totally agree that its a shame there wasn't a full program with the two. I feel the same about Rock/Michaels.

Agreed on your other two, those are self explanatory. Great matches.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I use Reigns as proof that I don't just think that indy guys coming into the WWE are good. I'm a fan of his. I'm not sure about him as a single guy but I don't think anyone could have done a better job of playing his role in the Shield. He's the badass of the faction and he's played that role perfectly. He's done enough for me to easily say that he is an amazing tag team wrestler. He's a heel that talks shits, backs it up, does awesome moves, and makes me feel like he can beat the faces without cheating. 

In recent memory in the WWE I don't think there are many people, if any, that I can say have been better in tag matches then him. Maybe Bryan because he went through that phase where he would be the face in peril (when he was called the weak link) and he would play that role perfectly. Then he transitioned over a couple months into being the hot tag and he was amazing at that as well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So I just watched Umaga/Cena LMS for the first time

thought it was OK at best, ***1/2 for it

Rumble match now :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> There's no large conspiracy why someone enjoys a wrestler. They just do. No internet bullshit, nothing. Ugh at all that crap anyways. Why even question it if you see more than one guy doing so? Does it really matter or burn you up? That's nothing short of :ti


I enjoy and am a big fan of Kurt Angle in WWE. There i said it.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> So I just watched Umaga/Cena LMS for the first time
> 
> thought it was OK at best, ***1/2 for it
> 
> Rumble match now :mark:


That Cena/Umaga match is glorious and is probably my third favourite match of 07 (maybe 2nd depending on how you look at it because there's a good chance the two that I definitely have above it might be tied for number one). The rumble match however, I find highly overrated. The end of the match is fucking awesome but everything else is a whole bunch of nothing. 

If you want a brilliant rumble match to watch, look no further than 2009. Highly underrated in my opinion. I never see it talked about when great rumble matches are mentioned, and it might actually be my favourite of all time. 2004 would require a rewatch and I have yet to see the 92 one which is apparently amazing, but currently 09 holds the top spot for me. So yeah....go watch that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

09 rumble is great, but I rewatched it not too long ago 

07 is awesome so far


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't care for Cena/Umaga the first time I watched it, but it clicked so well on the second. Cena was actually easy to support for once.

A Rock/Eddie feud would be nice, but I'm confident that Rock will ruin it by not taking Eddie seriously.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Fair enough, each to their own. I watched 07 a few weeks ago and didn't enjoy too much outside of the end of the match. It isn't even the second best match of the show for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Recently uploaded: 

*Steiner Brothers vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Vader (New Japan 6/26/92)*

x1a6qp7


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

these matches your linking zep recently :banderas

About Reigns- I personally not as high as everyone on him and view rollins as the shining star of the group. ME being on him is not him being bad, its just he has done that much to warrant "future" claims. Need to see more


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> these matches your linking zep recently :banderas


Thanks for noticing.  Coming soon: *Ric Flair & Rick Martel vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu (10.22.85)*


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> So I just watched Umaga/Cena LMS for the first time
> 
> thought it was OK at best, ***1/2 for it


FIVE STARS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Um, C2D, I actually loved Orton/Kingston at TLC 2009. Had never intended on watching it, because it doesn't sound like the most appealing thing in the world, but someone on this board said it was good, so I took a look. Actually really loved it. Was shocked by how much I liked it.
> 
> Orton came off as sinister and meticulous. They use methodical a lot and it can be overused, but he was sublimely methodical here, and the repeated foot stomps to the abdomen seemed much more fiery and purposeful than usual.
> 
> ...


I don't recall saying anything bad about this match. I did watch it when doing my list and found it mediocre and nothing too memorable. Way better than the match they had last week, though.

On another note, I rewatched the Orton/Benoit match before SummerSlam 2005 the other day and I did catch Orton calling the DDT spot when he couldn't hit the Gutwrench Neckbreaker.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just downloaded a Punk vs Danielson 2/3 falls match from ROH in 2005

please tell me its awesome


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Umaga is *****3/4* for me and one of my favourite matches ever. 

Decided to watch some GAME today, some matches from the latest set:

*HHH/Flair, Raw 06 - ***3/4
HHH/Hardy, SD 08 - ***3/4
HHH/Jericho, Raw 09 - ***
HHH/Lesnar, WM29 - ***3/4*

Some thoughts to go with them...Trips has some crazy chemistry with both Flair and Hardy. I think I'll try to rewatch all the Flair matches, especially the cage which is another personal favourite of mine. It's worth noting that Hardy beats HHH and the week before that match he beat Taker. Going over Taker and HHH in back to back weeks. Dat Enigma. Jericho match is decent but not enough time to get up and running to the extent of the other 2. Still fun though. The WM29 match surprised me. I had only seen it the one time and my memory of it wasn't the best but damn, what a war. HHH had 2nd degree burns and thought he broke his arm while Lesnar was concussed about 3 minutes in. When you consider that and the fact that the two of them literally beat the shit out of each other, this was great. Middle portion was a little too slow for my liking otherwise this could have hit 4*'s. Brock as always was GOAT and the finishing stretch of this is awesome. Definitely a nice surprise. Who knows, maybe when I eventually get around to watching WM29 again I might change my opinion of it being a shit show. 

And yes, the last 7 minutes of the HHH doc are :lmao :mark: & :clap all at once. ALL HAIL THE KING OF KINGS, DAT HALL OF FAME HUMAN BEING, THE MICHAEL JORDAN OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING AND GENERAL BEST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO VINCE MCMAHON.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> If Reigns is the future, and he doesn't improve a bazillion times over between now and then, the future is very very bleak. Honestly, I can't wait until Reigns finally breaks off from The Shield, to see if everyone singing praises for Reigns right now completely turns on him because he's exposed as complete shit talent-wise (unless as I said, he improves between now and then DRASTICALLY). Right now he does fine in a team, but all of his singles matches he's had (which there are only a handful of, thankfully) have been terrible. I get the potential people see in him based on his look and intensity (I see the potential as well despite my posts on him), but I'm struggling with understanding how he's gotten to be this big IWC favorite at this point, especially from the looks of it, in this thread. He does some cool spots in tag matches, but nothing I would've ever imagined would get people on his bandwagon to this extent.
> 
> Honestly, at this point, I'd take Big E over him any day of the week (and he's shit as well).


Reigns/Bryan last year was great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Reigns/Bryan last year was great.


Someone else (I think) mentioned that in another thread. I can't for the life in me remember what I thought of it, though I suppose I didn't think it was total shit as I probably would've soured on Reigns back then. You have a link for it? I just need something to show me that Reigns isn't total shit in the ring and is capable of having a great match with the right opponent, even if it has to be the best wrestler in the company. 

Edit: Nevermind, I found a link. Watching it now.



> Still fun though. The WM29 match surprised me. I had only seen it the one time and my memory of it wasn't the best but damn, what a war. HHH had 2nd degree burns and thought he broke his arm while Lesnar was concussed about 3 minutes in.


Damn, it doesn't change my opinion on the match being total shit, but still, major props to the two of them for going through that despite their injuries. I knew about the HHH dry ice situation, but I had no clue Lesnar got concussed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair & Rick Martel vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu (10.22.85)*

x1a702i


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That's totally swell, never seen that match before.

TENRYU was only in his 30s, and already grumpy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> I wonder if opinions would be different if Reigns was the one with the INDY HYPE~! and Ambrose was the WWE-built guy. I think a lot of people's disdain for Ambrose is simply because he had a lot of hype and some people feel he hasn't lived up to said hype,


Jon Moxley wasn't exactly Chris Hero or Bryan Danielson. He didn't have THAT much hype, did he? I sure as hell know I had no expectations given I'd never even seen a Moxley match before FCW. My disdain comes from his often annoying promos, sloppy work, and sometimes Edge-ian facial expressions.


Dude has an outstanding voice, though. Like, yeah, I don't really give a shit about his promos, but his voice as a single sound is completely badass. He also fits well in tag matches or something idk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Reigns wasn't great, but actually pretty good. Probably go *** on it. Reigns did a good job selling the leg throughout without over-doing it, and Bryan did a good job... actually he did a great job at... well... pretty much everything (as usual). Still don't want to see Reigns in the main event, but at least with the right opponent he can pull something off that isn't total shit. 

Also, lol at the replays of Bryan/Orton NOC ending during the match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm probably getting my timeline mixed up but MAYBE the majority of the hype stemmed more from his FCW feud with Regal and to a lesser extent Rollins, rather than his indy work. Either way, I can remember people were a lot more excited for him than they were for Rollins or Reigns when the trio debuted at Survivor Series. Although I understand your comparison between him and the likes of Danielson, Hero, Claudio etc. and his hype being a lot less

Maybe I'm talking out of my arse. I don't know. Or maybe I'm 110% correct. I don't know. I DON'T KNOW.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Bryan/Reigns wasn't great, but actually pretty good. Probably go *** on it. Reigns did a good job selling the leg throughout without over-doing it, and Bryan did a good job... actually he did a great job at... well... pretty much everything (as usual). Still don't want to see Reigns in the main event, but at least with the right opponent he can pull something off that isn't total shit.
> 
> Also, lol at the replays of Bryan/Orton NOC ending during the match.


I remember liking Bryan/Reigns more than Bryan/Rollins.

I'm guessing you didn't like Punk/Reigns?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Reigns rules. No doubt. And I DO think he will be "the future" in the sense that he'll be a world champ and a main eventer one day. Seems that some people see others saying "the future" and for whatever reason assume they mean OMG IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS THEY WILL BE MAIN EVENTERS WINNING WORLD TITLES AND BEATING CENA AND ORTON AND UNDERTAKER AND HHH ON BACK TO BACK PPV'S. Reigns still has a way to come for sure, we've seen in his singles matches that he still needs work, but fuck me he isn't even remotely close to a) being bad and b) being anywhere close to being as bad as a lot of other guys currently on the roster. Plus, right now he's mainly being used in tag matches where he fucking EXCELS.

Which brings me to Ambrose. Well kinda going back to Reigns too. When THE SHIELD first showed up, Reigns was mostly unknown to anyone who didn't watch his FCW stuff, and to those who had, he was some green Samoan who honestly wasn't that capable. Ambrose on the other hand, thanks to his series with Rollins and the matches with Regal, he was coming in HYPED up and shit. So Reigns coming in with zero hype and then actually looking great in basically EVERY tag match moved his stock WAY up with people. Ambrose on the other hand has STILL not done anything to live up to the hype he had when he first showed up. His early singles match were terrible (bad opponents or not, he didn't do anything worth mentioning either), and since then he's had some ok stuff with Punk and Bryan, same as Reigns BUT when it comes to the tag matches, Ambrose is just "there" imo. When I think back to SHIELD tags, I can remember REIGNS being all BOSSY with his superman punches and Spears and powerbombs and roaring like a fucking animal. Rollins I remember for bumping around like a lunatic or some crazy move he does or him on the apron talking shit to the other team. And Ambrose... does nothing. He doesn't stink up the joint, but I genuinely right now cannot remember anything, ya know, memorable from him.

While I'm expecting REIGNS to be the "star" of the RR out of the Shield guys, I'm kinda hoping Ambrose gets to shine a little.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose does some cool little things in the ring that add to the Shield tags but I agree, he hasn't stood out as much as Reigns and Rollins.

There's a thread in this section about Angle possibly returning to WWE this year. What do you guys think about that?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont mind Angle's WWE run(unlike others) but he is garbage in TNA so I doubt he would provide anything memorable


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't want Angle back. Nobody I want to see him against because he'll likely try and make the match EPICZ and it'll be a giant clusterfuck finisher fest and I just don't want to see that shit any more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive said it before and ill say it again, i am a fan of Angle in WWE, so bollocks. 

Saying that, i've hardly seen any of his TNA run, let alone what he is like now.,


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm cool with him coming back. I wouldn't expect his output quality to be high but for whatever reason I'd be interested in his matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would love to see Angle back. To hear that music... :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> I remember liking Bryan/Reigns more than Bryan/Rollins.
> 
> I'm guessing you didn't like Punk/Reigns?


Bryan/Rollins...now that was a great match. Went down a bit on my last watch, but I still enjoyed it a ton.

Yeah, Punk/Reigns was DUD-worthy up until the last couple of minutes, which were good, but certainly not enough to save the match. It's among Punk's worst matches that I can recall.

All this talk of Ambrose being the one that does cool spots in tag matches, that's Reigns 100%, and that's all he's really contributed to the group/WWE. Ambrose at least has those great matches with Punk, and he's a really good promo guy, so he beats out Reigns easily imo, although he's definitely not up to par with how people were praising him before The Shield debuted, at least not that I've seen.



> Reigns rules. No doubt. *And I DO think he will be "the future" in the sense that he'll be a world champ and a main eventer one day. Seems that some people see others saying "the future" and for whatever reason assume they mean OMG IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS THEY WILL BE MAIN EVENTERS WINNING WORLD TITLES AND BEATING CENA AND ORTON AND UNDERTAKER AND HHH ON BACK TO BACK PPV'S. *Reigns still has a way to come for sure, we've seen in his singles matches that he still needs work, but fuck me he isn't even remotely close to a) being bad and b) being anywhere close to being as bad as a lot of other guys currently on the roster. Plus, right now he's mainly being used in tag matches where he fucking EXCELS.


With WWE, it's either that or they're in mid-card hell forever unless a miracle occurs. Now me personally, I don't care when this future is of Reigns being maybe the top guy in the business, or one of the top 3, whether it's in 3 months or 3 years, he better be A LOT better than he is now, and I'm not talking just in the ring either. I've said it before, but I don't have a problem with Reigns' current positioning. He's the powerhouse of The Shield, and he's used in small amounts, which is exactly how he should be used. But I'd struggle to think of 5 guys who I'd say are worse than Reigns is right now. There are a lot of guys I like Reigns more than (not due to talent), like Del Rio and Sheamus for instance, but I'd easily put the two of them above Reigns if we're talking wrestling or even mic work (maybe not Del Rio on the mic, he's pretty horrendous). Um, Khali would be one guy who's worse than Reigns... despite what I said in an earlier post, maybe Langston. Otunga if he still counts, and uh... yeah, that's all I've got off the top of my head.

I suppose I'm being a bit harsh on Reigns though, as he really hasn't had a chance to go consistently on his own in the ring since The Shield started. He has only had a handful of singles matches after all. I'm certainly not expecting him to be amazing right off the bat when The Shield splits, but over time hopefully he improves to at least an acceptable level where he'll deliver great matches when they count. I'm not doubting the possibility, but the love for Reigns feels premature on here imo. But to each his own.

---

On Angle, would love to see him return. Would especially love it if he came back as goofy-Kurt. Goofy Kurt was AWESOME! Can't see it though in 2014.


----------



## Coach (May 5, 2013)

Currently watching Taboo Tuesday 05

Does anyone know why Edge did not wrestle? 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll take Angle/Bryan, Angle/Punk, Angle/Sheamus, and Angle/Cesaro for fresh match-ups and feuds. Please & thank you. 

I also wouldn't mind seeing The Olympic Hero have another go at BROCK and Undertaker too. Would be fun.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd mark for a Angle return. Like Zep, I've always been a fan of Angle in the WWE.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

PepsiPlunge07 said:


> Currently watching Taboo Tuesday 05
> 
> Does anyone know why Edge did not wrestle?
> 
> ...


He was a little injured.

Angle just retire please, no one cares to ever see you again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal if you are here  If i upload a video on DM and list it as Private, could i still share it the same way as normal? And hopefully it'll have less chance of being taken down.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

One match I wish we had gotten around 2006 was Finlay vs. Angle. I think that could have been quality, especially if Finlay structured everything and they worked stiff. WWE should hire Finlay back too this year. Much like Goldust even at his age Finlay can still outwork most of the current roster.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> One match I wish we had gotten around 2006 was Finlay vs. Angle. I think that could have been quality, especially if Finlay structured everything and they worked stiff. WWE should hire Finlay back too this year. Much like Goldust even at his age Finlay can still outwork most of the current roster.


According to Finlay, he taught Kurt how to wrestle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Cal if you are here  If i upload a video on DM and list it as Private, could i still share it the same way as normal? And hopefully it'll have less chance of being taken down.


Yep. Because whoever gets them taken down won't know the video is online unless they actually have the link .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Yep. Because whoever gets them taken down won't know the video is online unless they actually have the link .


Great, thanks mate


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I would much rather have Finlay back over Batista, any fan with a brain would agree with me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I would much rather have Finlay back over Batista, any fan with a brain would agree with me.


I'd rather have them both back. How about that?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Batista can fuck off, how about that? 

That PepsiPlunge guy red repped me for talking shit on Kurt Angle :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BBM

Bring
Back
Masters

. Instead of guys like Masters or Finlay coming back we get Batista. I wish I could be a casual fan who gets exited over whoever WWE push down my throat and tell me are great rather than recognising great in ring skills .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

King Cal said:


> BBM
> 
> *Bring
> Back
> ...


YES! god I love Chris Masters, still don't know how Carlito got more then him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I miss my BBM so much :banderas the #blackberry


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Loved Masters' selling. 






:lol Cross Rhode sell. Interesting.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Masters seriously lacked personality or that significant "something" to connect with the fans. He was a much better worker in his second run with the company, but creative nor he found that one entertaining factor (outside of his skills as a worker) to stick him with other than playing tricks with his manboobs. McIntyre is another example of a superstar who can show that he is an exceptional worker when given the opportunity but he lacks in the charisma and personality department.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Masters was usually super over on the smaller shows as that's where 99% of his career was during his second run. I swear when he wrestled on SD people forgot he was even back :lmao. But anyway, he was able to get the FULL NELSON over. Some of those matches during his second run where he got the fans into his matches just by teasing locking it in were incredible. Guy definitely had SOMETHING, but WWE seemed scared to go with him in case he fucked up again and got suspended/fired, which is a shame because with a bit of a push he could have gone places. Imaging if they gave him his first run push during his second run? :mark:

McIntyre . I hate seeing him in 3MB. How he's not at least a major IC/US title player is beyond me. Guy has it all.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

They should just let Masters & Drew continue to be the arrogant heels that they were that made them successful.

They were both getting heat & then they just killed it abruptly sadly.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

They tried pushing McIntyre hard but people just were not buying into it. The Matt Hardy feud or the weekly bullying of Teddy Long, plus the IC Title run should have given him sustainable heat but it didn't pan out. After that initial run McIntyre kind of fell off and what has happened to him is a scenario plenty of guys have been through - after a strong heel run fails go to comedy gimmick.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Clique said:


> They tried pushing McIntyre strong but people just were not buying into his work. The Matt Hardy feud or him bullying Teddy Long plus the IC Title run should have given him sustainable heat but it didn't happen. When that didn't happen he kind of fell off and what has happened to him is a scenario plenty of guys have been through - after a strong heel run fails go to comedy gimmick.


First of all that whole Teddy Long feud was just a huge debacle & the Matt Hardy crap was just as bad, I love Drew but I know those 2 "feuds" were absolutely terrible.

WWE puled a TNA with Drew, push him for like a year and then have no idea what to with him after.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Creative really are the ones to blame for a lot of this shit. They put talented workers in stupid situations, then when they don't get over they blame the talent and put them down in an even shittier situation and leave them until they quit or ask for their release. It's a load of bullshit. Like Cornette has said before, in regards to someone being fired because "creative can't come up with anything for you". You don't fire the TALENT for that, you fire the fucking creative guys. Get someone in who CAN come up with something. That's their fucking JOB.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

William Murderface said:


> WWE puled a TNA with Drew, push him for like a year and then have no idea what to with him after.


WWE has a pretty bad track record of doing that with a lot of guys. Look no further than Swagger, Ziggler, MVP, Morrison (with the right gimmick I think he could have done more), and as much as I despise him, The Miz too. A shame really when you see the guys grinding and working hard to get over.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Drew should have one the MITB briefcase at WM 26

As much as I like Swagger, his WHC reign was a FLOP


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

McIntyre is awesome, such a shame but that could be said for many. top 10 worker

^^^ I like Swagg, he has grown on my slowly ever since his american perfection days


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Drew should have one the MITB briefcase at WM 26
> 
> As much as I like Swagger, his WHC reign was a FLOP


TBH they likely would have booked McIntyre with the same run, minus the goofy award segment (which was kinda awesome tbh. KING SWAGGIE~!).


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Clique said:


> WWE has a pretty bad track record of doing that with a lot of guys. Look no further than Swagger, Ziggler, MVP, Morrison (with the right gimmick I think he could have done more), and as much as I despise him, The Miz too. A shame really when you see the guys grinding and working hard to get over.


This is very true, the only de-push I agree with is MVP because that guy sucked.

But you got all this talent and you just regulate it for no justified reason.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I was a fan of Masters during his first run with the company, even though he green back then. But the masterpiece character, the great entrance, the master lock challenge etc - got me interested in him back when I was like 13 years old. :lol Then he had his second run with the company and I didn't care as much because they didn't do anything with him. Shame he never went anywhere, and never won any title in the WWE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jonathan Coachman was GOAT during Masters' entrance back in 2005-06.



SMITTY said:


> Drew should have one the MITB briefcase at WM 26
> 
> As much as I like Swagger, his WHC reign was a FLOP


Nah, that should've been Christian's.

Drew's problem is that he has subzero charisma. He's a good worker but just can't connect which is important. Still, he deserves a midcard spot rather than being in 3MB.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

About the Angle convo on that last few pages

I dont want him back either, and I dont think he can. I remember hearing in Naitch's 2013 RF shoot, angle's neck is worse than Edges. I dont think he could even be cleared


NOST never change your sig :banderas Oh lord I'm sweating typing this


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think they might have let him hold onto it for a bit longer, he was still a bit green at that point


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Jonathan Coachman was GOAT during Masters' entrance back in 2005-06.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't need charisma to get over, do you really think I give a shit if Drew can tell me a joke?

I love Drew because of what he does in that ring & maybe his entrance music :side:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

William Murderface said:


> This is very true, the only de-push I agree with is MVP because that guy sucked.
> 
> But you got all this talent and you just regulate it for no justified reason.


MVP was charismatic and got over in spite of his terrible booking (losing streak angle) which was the frustrating part about his situation. I don't believe MVP or The Miz are the best workers in the world but their efforts I have noticed and they were some of the ones who caught on with the fans only to get shit from creative. I personally am not at all too entertained by Miz's talents other than his uncanny and natural abilty to make me please to see him get his ass kicked which can be a plus. Lucky for him he did get his run with the WWE Title, work a program with one of the greatest wrestlers ever, and headline a WrestleMania with the face of the company and an icon megastar.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> You don't need charisma to get over, do you really think I give a shit if Drew can tell me a joke?
> 
> I love Drew because of what he does in that ring & maybe his entrance music :side:


It may not matter to you, but it matters for the company since they are running a business. And uncharismatic guys generally fail to draw a reaction or become money makers which are very important in wrestling in order to get a push. It's not even about telling a joke. Benoit, Brock, Goldberg, Bret or Mysterio were never the best of talkers but they are/were charismatic which is why they've had successful careers.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Jonathan Coachman was GOAT during Masters' entrance back in 2005-06..







0:38 ''that robe is so much nicer that Flair's''. :lmao 

Coach was awesome and I loved that entrance.


Choke2Death said:


> Nah, that should've been Christian's.
> 
> Drew's problem is that he has subzero charisma. He's a good worker but just can't connect which is important. Still, he deserves a midcard spot rather than being in 3MB.


I wanted Christian to win the MITB most back at WrestleMania 25 when he was fresh off his return in the company, but then instead they gave it to Punk. I like Punk but he didn't need to win MITB two years in a row. :side: Sad that Christian's never won MITB despite being in many of them.


SKINS25 said:


> NOST never change your sig :banderas Oh lord I'm sweating typing this


:lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Coach was awesome and I loved that entrance.
> 
> I wanted Christian to win the MITB most back at WrestleMania 25 when he was fresh off his return in the company, but then instead they gave it to Punk. I like Punk but he didn't need to win MITB two years in a row. :side: Sad that Christian's never won MITB despite being in many of them.


Coach was comedy gold. Everything about him entertains me when I look back at the old stuff.

At least Christian won the World Title which is good enough. They could've kept him down and away from it to this day but luckily, he got it not once but twice. Regardless of how weak the reigns were, he'll go down in history as a former champion. And if you wanna talk about being in MITB matches, Shelton and Jericho have been in a shitload of them yet never won the briefcase.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Shelton Benjamin never gets what he deserves

He needs to come back


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shelton got the IC title a few times. Got exactly what he deserved and more tbh.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit, Brock, Goldberg, Bret or Mysterio were never the best of talkers but they are/were charismatic which is why they've had successful careers.


Very true. They have SOMETHING added to their persona or character that built a connection with their audience and made them entertaining. It's the reason why bad workers can make it with the right character or look, and why not the best talkers in the world can still headline PPVs. It's what separates a Jeff Hardy from a Shelton Benjamin, for example.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shelton has never all that impressive from what Ive seen of him, there are a couple other like him


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Shelton deserved a good manager and a world title run IMO, but maybe thats just me, really dig his stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clique said:


> Very true. They have SOMETHING added to their persona or character that built a connection with their audience and made them entertaining. It's the reason why bad workers can make it with the right character or look, and why not the best talkers in the world can still headline PPVs. It what separates a Jeff Hardy from a Shelton Benjamin, for example.



See I was 100% in agreement with you until you said Shelton Benjamin. I've always felt Shelton has charisma, just ZERO ability to talk. There have been loads of charismatic guys who are good/great who weren't good talkers, and I blame WWE creative for them no longer having jobs or not succeeding. Rey Mysterio is one of the worst talkers ever but he just has so much charisma it doesn't matter at all. 

I'm all for WWE bringing back old timers that can still go. It makes zero, and I mean ZERO sense why Finlay is working the indies and Regal only does spot appearances on NXT. Those guys should be given a minimum of 2 10 minute TV matches a month working with younger talent and getting them over.

WWE could have a GREAT mid card feud if they brought Finlay back to work with Sheamus. They could go both ways, use a wiley vet face Finlay to get a heel Sheamus over, or use a nasty, cheating, no good bastard heel Finlay to get a face Sheamus over. Sheamus is one of the best workers in the company but even I struggle to give the slightest fuck about him or his character. A great Finlay feud could easily be that remedy.

I'm loving the shit out of this "Memphis Heat" documentary I found on Amazon Prime. It's making me really want to watch some Dundee/Lawler matches, I highly reccomend this doc to everyone. Just fantastic stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Isn't Finlay back with the company? Fairly certain I've seen him break up fights and shit. Probably works as an agent or something again.

Memphis Heat is a great doc, also recommend it. And definitely recommend seeing Lawler/Dundee matches. GOOD GOD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes, I'm fully on the "Shelton for World Champion" bandwagon. Sucks that they dropped the ball with him in 2005 with that stupid losing streak.

lol @ agents breaking up fights. Finlay, Noble, Malenko - frequently seen them do it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I felt Shelton did get some good opportunities to shine with his yearly Money In The Bank spots which were a highlight reel of wonderment. Shelton was pushed with several midcard title reigns with the Intercontinental Championship and a lengthy run as United States Champion, but he ultimately could not proceed any higher due to his lack of charisma and poor promo ability. I never bought into Shelton being more than being just a textbook performer wrestler and when I say that I mean a mechanical type of performer who goes out there and just applies holds or hits contrived spots. As I say that I will also say with a mouth piece, a World Title reign on Smackdown or ECW probably wouldn't have been too bad. They took some calculated risks on those brands anyway with new talent and veteran reigns because they didn't have to carry the load of the top champion on Raw had.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clique said:


> I felt Shelton did get some good opportunities to shine with his yearly Money In The Bank spots which were a highlight reel of wonderment. Shelton was pushed with several midcard title reigns with the Intercontinental Championship and a lengthy run as United States Champion, but he ultimately could not proceed any higher due to his lack of charisma and poor promo ability. I never bought into Shelton being more than being just a textbook performer wrestler and when I say that I mean a mechanical type of performer who goes out there and just applies holds or hits contrived spots. As I say that I will also say with a mouth piece, a World Title reign on Smackdown or ECW probably wouldn't have been too bad. They took some calculated risks on those brands anyway with new talent and veteran reigns because they didn't have to carry the load of the top champion on Raw had.



Lets not get crazy now hahaha, I don't think Shelton should be a world champ or anything. I just think he could be a successful and entertaining mid card act, or in the tag team division. Basically I feel like the WWE should weed out the Kofi Kingston's, Usos, Miz's, Khali's, and Curtis Axel's of the world and replace them with guys like Shelton, Morrison, Finlay, Regal, etc. In other words trim the fat and replace it with actual talent. If WWE is gonna refuse to dedicate themselves to devolving interesting mid card story lines and angles, they should atleast replace the shitty workers with competent workers who lack microphone ability. It's not like they are getting promo time anyway. Regal doesn't count as a shitty mic worker obviously, he can be downright brilliant. But you get my drift.

Cal- forgive my ignorance, I've only seen 1 Lawler/Dundee match and that was ages ago so I can't even remember when it was, can you give me some reccomendations on where to start with such a legendary feud?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Justed finished hbk/goldberg raw 2003, decent/ok but I thought it was mostly because of Goldberg. I know he is my fav and I praise him but I really dont like Michaels 2003 stuff, I felt he tried to be the "showstopper" too much and tried to have DEM classics all the time, dont like any of his major matches that year


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Justed finished hbk/goldberg raw 2003, decent/ok but I thought it was mostly because of Goldberg. I know he is my fav and I praise him but I really dont like Michaels 2003 stuff, I felt he tried to be the "showstopper" too much and tried to have DEM classics all the time, dont like any of his major matches that year


My only qualms with Michaels 2002-2010 run was that I really never liked his character. He's like a face CM Punk in that regard. Michaels was brilliant as a heel in 1997-1998, but in his 2002-2010 run I felt like he was kind of a self righteous prick but was over as a baby face just because of his ring work. That's why the feud with Jericho hit home so well. Jericho was honest and being himself yet he got booed. Michaels was putting on this reborn Christian act and still doing a lot of the same backstage shit minus the drugs yet he was always cheered no matter what he did. The reason I brought up Punk is that he's very similar in that regard. Personality wise, atleast what's on screen, there just really is not a lot to like about the guy. But when he delivers such great underdog face performances you're left wondering whether he can ever be a true heel in the ring again. Outside of facing the Undertaker last year, is there really anyone else that can cause Punk to get booed? Probably not. Michaels was such a legend that he'd never really be able to get true heat in his second run.

I don't know if any of that made sense. Am I the only one who found it hard to root for Michaels during his second run?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah I loved Michaels second run character wise, yes he was a goodie goodie face but he played it well. Him still being bitchy backstage ? Well probably he was a bit but not as bad as the b4, I have no problem w/ him feeling entitled. Guy been in the business 20+ years, has more then established himself, its human instance to feel that way. And Believe all the top guys politic back there, just we hear about some

Yea kinda contridicted yourself bud w/ the hbk/punk thing


Edit: misread


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I liked HBK's 02-10 run, some of the best matches ever there 

Watching this taker set on Netflix, tons of good matches here


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Shelton Benjamin never gets what he deserves
> 
> He needs to come back


He's fine where he's atm now, tbhayley.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The first Cena/Umaga match is quite a gem.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The 2006 match from RAW or referring to their first PPV match from New Year's Revolution?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The 2006 match from RAW or referring to their first PPV match from New Year's Revolution?


Whoops, thought the NYR match was their first clash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Second singles, iirc. w/one or two brief tag team encounters _(one may have only been a brawl, actually)_ in-between.

Do like the NYR match a lot, myself.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So I was laid up in bed today with a bad stomach virus, and I decided to throw on Foley's doc, and man - it's amazing every time I watch it. Thinking back, I can't believe the crazy shit he and Funk did in Japan, but the Vader program in WCW looks super fucking interesting. Can't believe Foley can even walk. Would have LOVED seeing Taker on that doc, but we got him on Hunter's and the History of WWE. 

I wasn't watching when Shelton was around, but I've watched a bit of his stuff, and really enjoyed watching him. His IC title match with Christian at Survivor Series 2004 is magical, imo. I :mark: for the T-Bone suplex. I also enjoyed the ladder match with Christian at TLC 2009, which I know most people don't. Sure, it's contrived a bit, but I love those two working together. Of course the matches in 2004 with Triple H :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least you mentioned the first PPV match vs Christian. Always been a big fan of the SSeries clash. (Y)

I was a big Shelton supporter till about late '09 & he was poor for the bit he was around in 2010. Going to ROH first gave him a shot of revival, then he got bad again. Then the New Japan run put him back on the right track. He's been consistent - on the good side - since joining up there and leaving ROH altogether.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thoughts on jomo/sheamus svs 10 ? I know the tlc is awesome

and I jsut watched this sheamus/drew from sd :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Really good. Bordering awesome w/how meticulous Sheamus' approach on grounding Morrison was. Sheamus does a lot of neat things to rag doll Morrison, and he (Morrison) being the nimble cat he is, was able to bump nicely on those moments.

Sheamus vs Drew being the sub-three minute match on that otherwise awful night of Smackdown in early 2012, iirc. Don't remember them having another match pardon Tribute to the Troops in 2011.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Never been a big Shelton fan, I feel like he was given every opportunity to elevate his career and he failed for one reason or another. He's a better midcarder than Kofi is imo.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was a big Shelton fan when he first started getting pushed, and I've always liked him. Haven't watched any of his work more recent than the ladder match against Christian though (bleh).

I really liked the Sheamus vs. Morrison rivalry in 2010. Maybe it's because I always liked Morrison, but their SSeries and TLC matches both get Lenny smilies from me (I remember their KOTR finals match being good too).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOTR finals is a drop in the bucket too. Probably their weakest match of the trilogy in 2010, yet still good. Don't remember their early 2011 match too well. Now there is something to watch in a little bit. woo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nice will watch, and yea Cody the sub 5 min sd match, pretty good


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I really liked Sheamus/Morrison FCA. Big fan of JoMo's parkour gimmick.

Skins brought up Shawn's weak 2003 which I also agree with. I love his 2002-2010 run, but he did have a tendency of attempting these forced epics that every main eventer except for two or three in the past ten years are susceptible to. I loved his "living legend" sort of character he had at that time. Yeah he was a prick (in kayfabe) but unlike Cena or Sheamus, he admitted his faults. Some guys like him and Punk can pull it off so naturally that their (kayfabe) douchyness only makes them more likable, whereas someone like Miz just makes him unbearable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like John Cena a million times more than I do Shawn Michaels. Sheamus is a million & two times more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

William Murderface said:


> They should just let Masters & Drew continue to be the arrogant heels that they were that made them successful.


Masters was five thousand times better as a babyface, tbh. SuperStars died when he left.

Yeah, it's horrifying that they let go a guy like him go but Batista comes back and randomly (probably) get the Rumble win and even a Mania main event. And for some reason people are excited for that horseshit. You could place anybody in the world against Batista and I wouldn't give a shit. You could probably go back in time and get 1985 Ric Flair or 1983 Jerry Lawler to face Batista and I wouldn't give a shit. Hack should just fuck off.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Big Dave at least his the Taker matches (NOT the damn chairs match though).

Still gonna hopelessly cling to my dreams of Bryan winning the Rumble this Sunday


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Finally got around to watching Antonio Cesaro vs. William Regal from NXT. Great match.

& Not too surprising, but Regal can still go despite his age. Not as well as he could 10+ years ago but it happens. I thought he did not too bad in the match and of course Cesaro was a fucking beast as usual, there was some stiff ones in the match, which are always awesome. DAT uppercut. DAT feet to the back of the head. DAT in-ring storytelling. DAT match. DAT everything, to be honest. :lmao I enjoyed pretty much everything about the match, I'm probably over-doing it because it's Cesaro and Regal, two good workers, but lol. I also enjoyed seeing them do the embrace post-match. & They definitely did the right thing having Cesaro win.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Masters? McIntyre?















Hello beautiful.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm downloading no way out 2002 :mark:

havent seen it since 2002


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

while im here is in your face 1997 final four worth a download?

Leif Cassidy vs. Marc Mero w/Sable 

Flash Funk, Bart Gunn, and Goldust w/Funkettes and Marlena vs. Nation of Domination (Faarooq, Savio Vega, and Crush) w/PG-13, D’Lo Brown, and Clarence Mason 

WWF Intercontinental Championship- Rocky Maivia vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley 


WWF Tag Team Championship- Owen Hart and British Bulldog w/Clarence Mason vs. Doug Furnas and Phillip Lafon 


Final Four Match for the WWF Championship- Vader w/Paul Bearer vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Undertaker vs. Bret Hart


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. Find the four way on youtube/dailymotion alone and you'll be good.

Tag Championship match is still well wrestled, of course, however their first match from RAW in January of 1997 is >>>


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ill stick with just watching no way out 2002 :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Eulonzo said:


> Finally got around to watching Antonio Cesaro vs. William Regal from NXT. Great match.
> 
> & *Not too surprising, but Regal can still go despite his age. Not as well as he could 10+ years ago but it happens*. I thought he did not too bad in the match and of course Cesaro was a fucking beast as usual, there was some stiff ones in the match, which are always awesome. DAT uppercut. DAT feet to the back of the head. DAT in-ring storytelling. DAT match. DAT everything, to be honest. :lmao I enjoyed pretty much everything about the match, I'm probably over-doing it because it's Cesaro and Regal, two good workers, but lol. I also enjoyed seeing them do the embrace post-match. & They definitely did the right thing having Cesaro win.


I honestly thought he looked even better than he had at a younger age. Of course he's not delivering swank matwork like he had against Rudge or was running around akin to his series with Finlay but he's definitely molded his matches to suit what his body is capable of. He's dialed his selling and viciousness to a notch I hadn't seen before and it elevated the match all the better. Perhaps its my bias for contemporary wrestling showing but from his first pairing with Ambrose forward (2011), Regal's looked like the true forgotten gem he's been heralded as by others all along.

Of course there's something to behold with his earlier work yet, after dipping through his career from start to finish, if I was to initiate someone into Regal as a contender for masterclass worker it would be his latter stuff more than anything. I might be alone in that view, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all of his work evenly for me. Haven't had a preference considering how well he's produced for my given opinion. Something about older and surly experienced vet Regal does garner a tad bit more appeal, tbhayley.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Will probably start Vengeance 2004 when I get home tonight, how is the Edge/Orton match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finlay or Regal? GO!



But seriously, who do you prefer? For me, hands down Regal. Easy decision to make, despite my love for FIT. His stuff in early 90's WCW with the TV title is just :mark:. Steamboat matches are awesome, plus a ton of super fun stuff with the mid/lower card guys around at the time (yet oddly enough an ARN ANDERSON match didn't live up to the hype at all  ). He got a great match out of STING, something only him, Vader and DDP have ever done. Hell it's still Sting's best match since 1996 when it happened. SINCE 1996. And Regal was the absolute driving force of the match. Then of course we have the Finlay series. Beautiful stuff. Good to great matches with some of the WCW Cruserweights around at the time too. Benoit stuff, going back to the Pillman tribute show match right up to 2006. MOAR Finlay. Tag work with Dave Taylor against LONDRICK, including some sick singles matches. That JBL match in England. Stuff Vs Punk for the IC title. That Orton match in 08 in England. His ECW 09 run :mark:. CHRISTIAN :mark:. His FCW and NXT work :mark:. Plus I love his character work too. Guy has awesome faces, can cut great promos, can be a great snob, or a ruthless villain, or a likeable babyface that, like Finlay, loves to fight. Comedy or Serious, he's got it. Oh and a pretty darn good commentator too.

And Finlay is right up there too pretty much, but I just prefer Regal's ring work a little more. HALF NELSON SUPLEX pretty much sways it :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Will probably start Vengeance 2004 when I get home tonight, how is the Edge/Orton match?


Polarising. Some would go ****+ for it, some would consider it dull as shit. I remember it being pretty long (maybe a little over 20 minutes?) and lots of headlocks, but I do remember it being really good. Haven't watched it in years though. Hopefully it holds up and hopefully the headlocks are WORKED rather than used as rest holds. Can't imagine I'd have good memories of it if they didn't work the headlocks though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Finlay or Regal? GO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great post. I recently changed my top 10 workers of all time list and bumped Regal ahead of Fit. I used to enjoy Finlay SLIGHTLY more, but with the recent Regal binge I've been on he's edged out Fit and worked his way into my top 5. And I agree with Hayley, I don't prefer the younger Regal to old man Regal, I love them both equally. Both bring something special to the table.

The thing with Regal is, I struggle to think of a stand out best match for him. Just about all his stuff is superb. I guess gun to my head I'd go with Uncensored vs Finlay but I do love all his Benoit matches and every time he makes a younger guy look amazing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And I didn't even MENTION his early stuff in Europe or his matches in Japan!!! Mainly because I've seen bugger all (why I haven't seen THAT match from Japan I'll never know. Or THAT OTHER match from Japan. The fuck is wrong with me?). But I always hear praise for a handful of stuff that I'm excited to eventually watch (now where did I put that Regal comp... ).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Imagine if Finlay wasn't a trainer from 01-06 and he was an active member of the roster? That's another 4/5 years of FINLAY. Say he gets an average for 6 minutes a week, whether thats RAW, SD, Heat, Velocity, PPV etc. (and thats a minimum, really.). 52 weeks a year for 4 years.

52 x 4 = 208
208 x 6 = 1,248

THATS AN EXTRA 1248 MINUTES OF FINLAY WE COULD HAVE HAD.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Skins brought up Shawn's weak 2003 which I also agree with. I love his 2002-2010 run, but he did have a tendency of attempting these forced epics that every main eventer except for two or three in the past ten years are susceptible to. I loved his "living legend" sort of character he had at that time. Yeah he was a prick (in kayfabe) but unlike Cena or Sheamus, he admitted his faults. Some guys like him and Punk can pull it off so naturally that their (kayfabe) douchyness only makes them more likable, whereas someone like Miz just makes him unbearable.


(Y) you gotta give that henry/goldberg a rewatch man, its other worldy



HayleySabin said:


> I like John Cena a million times more than I do Shawn Michaels. Sheamus is a million & two times more.


Your breaking my heart



Rah;29068745[B said:


> ]I honestly thought he looked even better than he had at a younger age[/B]. Of course he's not delivering swank matwork like he had against Rudge or was running around akin to his series with Finlay but he's definitely molded his matches to suit what his body is capable of. He's dialed his selling and viciousness to a notch I hadn't seen before and it elevated the match all the better. Perhaps its my bias for contemporary wrestling showing but from his first pairing with Ambrose forward (2011), Regal's looked like the true forgotten gem he's been heralded as by others all along.
> 
> Of course there's something to behold with his earlier work yet, after dipping through his career from start to finish, if I was to initiate someone into Regal as a contender for masterclass worker it would be his latter stuff more than anything. I might be alone in that view, though.


I actually agree w/( Sorry Sono, its just so much easier writing that, if you want copyright fee bill my mansion) this. From what Ive seen of both young man and old man regal his style nowadays is more up my alley of interest. His usage of stiff shots and selling has increased, why the pure mat-work has decreased (IMO from what Ive seen) He is still great nonetheless. I may be the only one that Preferred the hero match to the cesaros (that has nothing to do w/ the topic, whatevs


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS25 said:


> (Y) you gotta give that henry/goldberg a rewatch man, its other worldy
> 
> 
> Your breaking my heart
> ...


I'm not sure if I preferred the Hero match, although I havem't watched it since it aired (thats one lined up for tonight, need some more matches if anyones willing to suggest st00f) but I do feel that it unfortunately gets forgotten about between the two Ambrose matches and the Cesaro match. Yeah, the Ambrose and Cesaro matches MAY be better, but that shouldn't mean the Hero match should be forgotten or not talked about because it's a masterpiece it's self.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> I'm not sure if I preferred the Hero match, although I havem't watched it since it aired (thats one lined up for tonight, need some more matches if anyones willing to suggest st00f) but I do feel that it unfortunately gets forgotten about between the two Ambrose matches and the Cesaro match. Yeah, the Ambrose and Cesaro matches MAY be better, but that shouldn't mean the Hero match should be forgotten or not talked about because it's a masterpiece it's self.



The Hero match was a masterpiece. Don't see how anyone can not enjoy that, but then again I'm regularly left speechless by some opinions shared in other parts of this forum. If I were ranking the Regal NXT matches, I think Cesaro would be the tippy top, the two Ambrose matches would be next, and the Hero match after that. All deserve ****+ and are serious MOTY contenders.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> I'm not sure if I preferred the Hero match, although I havem't watched it since it aired (thats one lined up for tonight, need some more matches if anyones willing to suggest st00f) but I do feel that it unfortunately gets forgotten about between the two Ambrose matches and the Cesaro match. Yeah, the Ambrose and Cesaro matches MAY be better, but that shouldn't mean the Hero match should be forgotten or not talked about because it's a masterpiece it's self.


Yea, it does get forgotten for some reason, how are the ambrose matches ?


Btw I watched the london/akio series the other day, really like 1,2 was pretty good finishing stretch was good and I need to watch 3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal FCW/NXT stuff:

1. Vs Ambrose I
2. Vs Ambrose II
3. Vs Hero
4. Vs Cesaro

All are ****+ though :mark:. The 2 Ambrose matches honestly could be considered =1 tbh. Nothing between them really. Finish to the 2nd match is tremendous.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought that outside of a bunch of matches that HBK wasn't that great in 2006, 2008, & 2009 either TBH .

It's weird, because Shawn is really good. I'll go to bat for the guy sometimes because he's one of the special cases that he gets so overrated that he's underrated, if that makes any sense whatsoever (I know it doesn't ). The guy had like 7 FULL years from 03-10 and I think out of the bunch, 2007 probably shines the brightest due to working with guys like Orton when he was in his prime phase and Cena, but they were having great matches with everybody at that point. His 2008 wasn't bad either, but I felt that Batista actually out performed him in the stretcher match, and that the Jericho series is kinda overrated.

He's a great in my eyes, but top 10 in WWE lore? Nope .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah his 2006 and 2009 were not very good. Not a fan of his 2005 either to be honest. The Angle series wasn't that amazing. Dude is probably the best big time player in company history though. That's more than enough to be top ten in WWE lore.

Everyone should spend a week watching everything from Regal's early-mid 90s WCW period except for the Windham match. I think that was Regal's best period.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think it a bit much even if your not a fan of him to leave him off a top 10 wwe list

I'll be the first to admit his 2003 and in some regards his 05( he was in a program w/ Kurt Angle though) were less than stellar, but outside if those years he delievered, not as good as his 90s run but he was a GAWD back then. I hate every hbk/y2j match myself outside of TGAB I think


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I thought that outside of a bunch of matches that HBK wasn't that great in 2006, 2008, & 2009 either TBH .


I get 2006 because he largely feuded with McMahon, then later that year he was tied down to DX with Triple H. I get 2009 because he was basically part-time that year and back to tagging with Hunter again. Even if he quite possibly had the best WrestleMania match ever with Undertaker. I thought his 2008 was good. Shawn had in my mind one of the best feuds of the last decade. 

Strictly from an in-ring perspective which I think you were only focusing on, Shawn brought out a very good match in Kennedy which is not the easiest of tasks, had an often overlooked Raw main event with Jeff Hardy, three good-great matches in his epic feud with Chris Jericho (I'd argue GAB had excellent selling by Shawn), I don't think people have noticed the quality of the Stretcher Match with Batista, and of course the legendary and dramatic play with Ric Flair at WrestleMania. 

So HBK showed his greatness in big match situations which is often the best case scenario for him and why he is reveled so much deservedly so by the fans. Without question he is a Top 10 WWE performer based on the big match quality level that has become so memorable and favored to his legacy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

He was great in 2008 but not for most what think, pretty good weekies on raw and that masterpiece at mania


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Do people actually really think HBK isn't that great?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IMO he's great and it's very difficult to dispute that, i just don't think he's a GOATC like some believe and I think a lot of that belief is fed to us by the WWE Machine. He's one of those guys where I completely understand why people dig him and think he's awesome, he's just not my cuppa' tea.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

See, and that's respectable. Back in 96 he was a machine. I think later in his career he was often a bit lazy, particularly in non-PPV matches. There's no doubt in my mind, however, that he played the soap opera-esque, dramatic style of WWE big-time main event matches to perfection.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> IMO he's great and it's very difficult to dispute that, i just don't think he's a GOATC like some believe and I think a lot of that belief is fed to us by the WWE Machine. He's one of those guys where I completely understand why people dig him and think he's awesome, he's just not my cuppa' tea.


Understood

My only thing I'd like to ask the few of you who are opposed to Hbk, primarily his second run, what about it you didnt like ? His stuff in ring ? or just his goofy character ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He had more of a tendency to mail it in during some performances than he did in the 90s (see: ladder match vs Jericho).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> IMO he's great and it's very difficult to dispute that, i just don't think he's a GOATC like some believe and I think a lot of that belief is fed to us by the WWE Machine. He's one of those guys where I completely understand why people dig him and think he's awesome, he's just not my cuppa' tea.


My opinion exactly.

I think Shawn Michaels WAS great, he's just not a guy I personally would have in my top 10 of favorite guys to watch. I don't hate him either, I mean I own his DVD set and everything. Just I enjoy the Benoit's, Guerrero's, Regal's, Finlay's, and Foley's of the world more. I enjoy a rougher in ring style than Michaels usually gives, although maybe that's why I adore MindGames so much with him and Mick, Shawn was a badass in that match.

Although, it should be said, in interviews, I've heard no less than Benoit, Eddie, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Triple H, Ric Flair, Chris Jericho, Cena, many others actually, and they have all said Shawn was either one of if not outright the best ever. That has to count for something I suppose.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK is great in "big" matches and stuff, but when it comes to short TV matches etc I'd sooner watch a Regal or Finlay or Benoit or Guerrero etc.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is it bad that I like Brock better than HBK? 

HBK is still top 10 though imo


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----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

King Cal said:


> HBK is great in "big" matches and stuff, but when it comes to short TV matches etc I'd sooner watch a Regal or Finlay or Benoit or Guerrero etc.


This is what I was trying to get it. He had a big tendency to mail in routine weekly matches. Very formulaic.



SMITTY said:


> Is it bad that I like Brock better than HBK?
> 
> HBK is still top 10 though imo


Not at all. BROCK is the man. :brock


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah Brock is legit,will deserved praise

I cant dispute hbk in his 2nd run falling victim at times to trying to have classics all the time (see 2003) but he when he got it right he produced many all time classics in that run


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My top 10 all time

1: flair 
2: Bret hart
3: taker
4: Benoit 
5: Foley
6:Brock 
7: Steamboat 
8: Eddie
9: HBK
10: Jericho

HBK barely makes it :lol


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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Is it bad that I like Brock better than HBK?
> 
> HBK is still top 10 though imo
> 
> ...


If Brock had a full 10 year WWE career, I don't think there is anyway whatsoever that he wouldn't be considered for top 10 all time. As it is, with his shorter career, he'll just have to settle for being one of my top 10 favorites 

In Hell in a Cell vs Taker, most people commend Taker for being just the most amazing, menacing, bad ass monster and that he's the biggest reason that match was so spectacular. While I agree Taker is the best part of that match, Michaels just puts on a master class in how to bump and sell and enhance a monsters aura. He manages to stay heel while getting the absolute shit kicked out of him, which is no easy feat. With the way that match was structured, if Shawn had been any less of a chicken shit, it could very easily have turned him baby face. The finish definitely helped as well.

Edit- Since Smitty did it and I love a good excuse to make a list 

1. Ric Flair
2. Eddie Guerrero
3. Chris Benoit
4. Terry Funk
5. William/Steven Regal
6. Jerry Lawler
7. Fit Finlay
8. Rey Mysterio
9. The Undertaker
10. HBK/Bret Hart/Steve Austin

Toughest omissions: Barry Windham, Mick Foley, Vader, Bobby Eaton

Easiest omission: Triple H, cause fuck him

I much prefer Bret Hart's best matches to Shawn Michaels best matches, but Michaels just has that longevity and no crappy WCW run, so they have to be tied in my eyes.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Making lists is so hard </3

1. Rey Mysterio
2. Daniel Bryan Danielson
3. Eddie Guerrero
4. Sami Zayn/El Generico
5. Chris Benoit
6. Vader 
7. Brock Lesnar
8. Big Show
9. William Regal
10. Dustin Rhodes

THIS WILL CHANGE TOMORROW. THEN THE DAY AFTER. THEN THE DAY AFTER THAT.

Ofc. this isn't a list of who I think is the best, just my top ten favourites. Hence why it could change so easily. If you asked me three weeks ago, Dustin wouldn't have been in my top 25 but the past few weeks I've completely binged on him.

I'd say the top 6 are pretty much locks forever, though. That is until I delve in to more territories stuff, then it'll probably change.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I have actually never seen a Jerry lawler match 

That's an issue


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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Smitty. Change that. NOW. Or else I'll ban you. For realsies. I'd risk my modship over banning you for now seeing a Lawer match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Making lists is so hard </3
> 
> 1. Rey Mysterio
> 2. Daniel Bryan Danielson
> ...




I was gonna say that's a pretty diverse and interesting list, then I saw "Big Show" on there and your list took a nose dive. Big Show is good, damn good actually when you factor in the fucker is 7ft tall and 400lbs. But a top 10 wrestler of all time? Yeesh. You must really dig him huh?

Make the case for Big Show being a top 10 guy, I'm actually interested to hear your rationale.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I have actually never seen a Jerry lawler match
> 
> That's an issue
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me? WOW. Just WOW. Fix that sir, you won't be sorry.

Here is one I just watched last night. Excellence: 

Part 1 






Part 2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Ziggler/Edge from RR11, my favourite Ziggler match. It's still very good, would have been btter without that stupid Spear stipulation. Still, excellent match ****1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

**1/2 for it. Not a fan at all tbh. Honestly felt it should have been worked way differently. Was hoping it could be similar to HBK/Orton SVS with the superkick banned... but nope.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I knew better than to expect anything good from 2011 Edge (even if I do like Dolph Ziggler). 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

1) Shawn Michaels
2) Ric Flair
3) Dolph Ziggler
4) Cm Punk
5) Mr. Perfect
6) Mark Henry
7) Rey Myeterio
8) Randy Orton ( wtf ?)
9) Mick Foley
10) Triple H ( WHAT !)

Yea like FLUX this isnt the best just the favs

Yea not really sure tbh, 5-10 changes daily, yes #8 is a shock but I use to love him, which breaks my heart even more of what he has become #1-5 is SET in Stone, but the other change. #10 is a shocker too


Edit: not really a fan of that ziggler/edge not Bad but not good just there


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

FLUX said:


> Making lists is so hard </3
> 
> 1. Rey Mysterio
> 2. Daniel Bryan Danielson
> ...





Cactus Jack said:


> I was gonna say that's a pretty diverse and interesting list, then I saw "Big Show" on there and your list took a nose dive. Big Show is good, damn good actually when you factor in the fucker is 7ft tall and 400lbs. *But a top 10 wrestler of all time? Yeesh. You must really dig him huh?
> 
> Make the case for Big Show being a top 10 guy, I'm actually interested to hear your rationale*.


Like my bolded part says, the list isn't who I think is the top 10 greatest, just my favourites. However, I'll still explain why I love Show so much (and why every other fucker should love him, also).

He's 7 ft, 500 pounds. That alone creates an interesting dynamic with all of his matches before the bell has even rung.

vs. Cruiserweights - David vs. Goliath.
vs. "standard" sized guys (230-280 pounds, lets say) - David vs. Goliath but also, in some cases, the smaller guy may be able to lift him up. Adds a different dynamic.
vs. Super Heavyweights - Monster vs. Monster, but is the other monster even monster enough for The Big Show? Maybe Big Show is OUTMONSTERED?

Anyway, the reason I like him so much is because he's been an active member of the roster for nearly fifteen years, on top of his few years in WCW which admittedly I've seen very little of, and he's had good-great-near classic matches with the widest variety of opponents humanly possible, as a face or heel (mainly heel, though). I don't need to sit here and list the matches, but forgotten ones include vs. HHH @ NYR, vs. Flair on ECW, vs. Cena on SD, vs. Del Rio LMS etc. He's had great matches with smaller guys like Rey and Eddie, as well as great matches with huge guys like Henry and Brock. He's can work longer matches or he can work shorter TV matches just as well, as shown by his match with Meng or his squash match with Gallows (a contender for the best 2 minute match ever btw).

*Basically the reason I love Big Show is because of his versatility mixed with longevity and an ability to somewhat overcome crappy booking through good performances*. Take away his bad booking and bad character, the guy is/has been a fantastic worker for almost 15 years solid. Has he had some DUDS? Sure, but that comes with the territory of not only bad booking, but being a 7ft 500 pound freak of nature. He has a tremendous catalogue of matches that span an insane amount of time to prove that he can adapt to any, if not all, types of opponents in many types of situations.

tl;dr - read the bolded part.

Now can someone explain why Big Show *ISN'T* one of the all time greats? :side:

EDIT: For those wondering, the two minute match w/ Gallows was when he played Festus. Just used to calling him Gallows


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> 1) Shawn Michaels
> 2) Ric Flair
> 3) Dolph Ziggler
> 4) Cm Punk
> ...





Oh, if we were doing favorites and not who I think were the GOAT's my list would be different. Here is just my favorites:

1. Eddie Guerrero
2. Mick Foley
3. Chris Benoit
4. William Regal
5. Fit Finlay
6. Brock Lesnar
7. Rey Mysterio
8. The Undertaker
9. Bret Hart
10. Vader 


I finally found a decent clip of the Benoit/Austin match from Raw. I'm gonna watch it for the first time in ages, hoping it holds up. I remember it being almost as good as the classic Smackdown encounter.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll definitely check out some of those lawler matches when I get home 



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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Like my bolded part says, the list isn't who I think is the top 10 greatest, just my favourites. However, I'll still explain why I love Show so much (and why every other fucker should love him, also).
> 
> He's 7 ft, 500 pounds. That alone creates an interesting dynamic with all of his matches before the bell has even rung.
> 
> ...



My bad man sorry I guess I can't read haha, Rey Mysterio is definitely a GOAT contender so I just assumed you were listing who you thought was the greatest.


As I said, I actually like Big Show and think he's pretty damn good. But, since you were so kind and gave me that excellent response about why you think Big Show is one of the best, here is my response to why I think he ISN'T.

1. He doesn't have one single CLASSIC match. For someone who has been wrestling since 1996, for him to not have an all time classic on his resume is pretty bad. I LOVE the HIAC match vs Sheamus, the No Mercy match with Taker, the Stretcher match with Brock, the Vengeance match with Henry, etc. I LOVE ALL THOSE MATCHES. I just don't think any of them could ever be considered all time classics.

2. He has wayyyy too many downright bad, awful, dud, whatever you want to call it, matches on his resume to be considered a top 10 or even top 20 worker of all time.

3. He is wayyyy too corny as a face and not nearly bad ass enough as a heel. Part of that is booking, part of that is just his own personality. This isn't a fact it's just a personal opinion.



Points 1 and 2 are the major reasons I can't consider him one of the top 20 wrestlers ever. Just not enough greatness for such a long stretch of activity and wayyy too much mediocrity/poorness. Again, I LIKE BIG SHOW AND THINK HE's REALLY REALLY GOOD. I just don't think he's a top 20 guy.

One thing that Big Show definitely deserves credit for is he's been in the WWE since 1999 or so. Andre got to move around from territory to territory and stay a massive draw because fans only got to see him once a year or so. Big Show was never afforded that luxury, he couldn't just coast on his size. Andre at one time was a pretty solid worker, but for most of the 80's he was just broken down and not good. So the fact that Big Show has stayed relatively relevant and kept a decent amount of interest even though his size isn't shocking to the fans anymore is a testament to his ability.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I finally found a decent clip of the Benoit/Austin match from Raw. I'm gonna watch it for the first time in ages, hoping it holds up. I remember it being almost as good as the classic Smackdown encounter.







This one? Yeah, I uploaded it because it was baffling that I couldn't find it on youtube anywhere. Now the Smackdown match needs to be uploaded because the cunts took down the available video of the full match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> This one? Yeah, I uploaded it because it was baffling that I couldn't find it on youtube anywhere. Now the Smackdown match needs to be uploaded because the cunts took down the available video of the full match.


That's the one haha your the man bro thanks.

My thoughts? Wow, how the fuck does this match not get brought up more? Yes the Smackdown is probably better, but only by a small margin. This was just phenomenal, the crowd, the pacing, Austin being a complete psycho, Benoit's come back, Vinnie Mac being a goon on the outside. What a fucking match that was. This definitely should be brought up as a top 10 match in RAW history. Outside of the GOAT RAW match (the Power Trip-Benoit/Jericho tag) there isn't another match that I would say is just definitively BETTER.

****1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, I remember it being very good. But not _that_ good. Guess I know what to rewatch now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for the Raw match, ****3/4 for the SD match. Shame the Raw one doesn't get mentioned at the same time as the SD match because while it's not on the same level exactly, it's still better than a lot of other Raw matches (like a certain overrated tag. and another certain overrated tag too while I'm at it lol. fucking overrated raw tags).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> ***3/4 for the Raw match, ****3/4 for the SD match. Shame the Raw one doesn't get mentioned at the same time as the SD match because while it's not on the same level exactly, it's still better than a lot of other Raw matches (like a certain overrated tag. and another certain overrated tag too while I'm at it lol. fucking overrated raw tags).


I actually meant to give it ****1/4 not ****1/2, but the point is the same. I thought it was brilliant. And I don't believe in overrated RAW tags, I dig all the Evolution ones, the Owen/Davey vs HBK/Austin one, and especially the Power Trip tag. But I'm just a huge fan of tag team wrestling in general.

I agree that the Austin/Benoit SD match warrants the ****3/4 it gets from most. But I just don't see how it's a full * better than that Raw match. Oh well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WWE finally showing Chris Benoit in a video. :mark:






Start from 2:27 for the whole part.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Finlay or Regal? GO!


Finlay. Honestly I think they're pretty even but I prefer Fit's selling and bumping. I actually prefer him on offense too but IDK if I can call him better. I do think he sells better.



The Lady Killer said:


> Do people actually really think HBK isn't that great?


I think half of his career is really great. The other half I really don't like and often think is actually bad. IDK whether or not he'd make my WWE top ten, especially since more than half of the Michaels I like is Rockers Michaels and a chunk of that was in AWA.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

King Cal said:


> ***3/4 for the Raw match, ****3/4 for the SD match. Shame the Raw one doesn't get mentioned at the same time as the SD match because while it's not on the same level exactly, it's still better than a lot of other Raw matches (*like a certain overrated tag.* and another certain overrated tag too while I'm at it lol. fucking overrated raw tags).


You suck Callum 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't suck. If I sucked would I have bought the 2013 RR event on Bluray today?


Wait... that ain't helping my case.

FUCK YOU BUBZ :side:.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

King Cal said:


> I don't suck. If I sucked would I have bought the 2013 RR event on Bluray today?
> 
> 
> Wait... that ain't helping my case.
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Now the Smackdown match needs to be uploaded because the cunts took down the available video of the full match.


I could upload that if you still need it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> I could upload that if you still need it


Thanks but I already have it, so that's not an issue.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Thanks but I already have it, so that's not an issue.




They took down the Smackdown Benoit/Austin match? The fuck?? If that's the match you were talking about, Zep ill love you long time if you don't mind uploading it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> They took down the Smackdown Benoit/Austin match? The fuck?? If that's the match you were talking about, Zep ill love you long time if you don't mind uploading it


 No worries, ill upload it to my DM account tomorrow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So SD this week... Barrett turns babyface? I kinda wanna cheer for him now. Probably won't but he almost made me want to .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> ***3/4 for the Raw match, ****3/4 for the SD match. Shame the Raw one doesn't get mentioned at the same time as the SD match because while it's not on the same level exactly, it's still better than a lot of other Raw matches (like a certain overrated tag. *and another certain overrated tag too while I'm at it lol*. fucking overrated raw tags).


hbk/scsa vs. owen/davey is the LEGIT brother 

That other one w/ those Canadian tag, yea your right


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nice to see that people know me well enough to correctly identify 2 matches without me saying anything more than "overrated raw tag" .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

King Cal said:


> So SD this week... Barrett turns babyface? I kinda wanna cheer for him now. Probably won't but he almost made me want to .


Holy fuck, the Barrett SD segment was so good even it made almost want to cheer for him? Now I really can't wait for it. Is it online anywhere?

Edit: Nevermind, I found it.

Edit 2: Holy fuck, :lmao @ Barrett. I'm sure everyone will agree that's the best work he's done for a match yet. Brilliant. :lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The WGTT vs Eddie & Tajri in a ladder match = heaps of fun. This and Show/Lesnar rightfully carried JD 2003.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Finlay or Regal? GO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everything you said I can actually agree w/yet, I still dunno if I could ever choose a preference. Might be Finlay. I say that, let it simmer, I think about ALL the Regal work I adore, and then begin to question if so. Gah. WHY DO I HAVE TO CHOOSE?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I feel like I'm missing out on Regal. Anyone can recommend me some classics he's had from the past? (not the recent NXT ones and no Benoit matches because I already seen them)



Cactus Jack said:


> They took down the Smackdown Benoit/Austin match? The fuck?? If that's the match you were talking about, Zep ill love you long time if you don't mind uploading it


I'm uploading it right now on youtube. Hopefully it doesn't get taken down like the Brock/Angle ironman did.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I feel like I'm missing out on Regal. Anyone can recommend me some classics he's had from the past? (not the recent NXT ones and no Benoit matches because I already seen them)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm uploading it right now on youtube. Hopefully it doesn't get taken down like the Brock/Angle ironman did.



If you could, send me a link when you get done I'm gonna watch it and see how it compares with the RAW match I just went head over heels for. 

The ones that immediately jump to mind are any and all against FINLAY, specifically Uncensored 1996 and Great American Bash. Then he had some good ones with Punk in 2009 but I doubt you'd be any interested in those. He had some good-great matches with Edge.

But the best would be to go check out his matches with Christian in 2009, specifically Breaking Point and the ECW TV match he had in England. Those are all timers. Oh and definitely check out the match he had with Steamboat at HH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm uploading it right now on youtube. Hopefully it doesn't get taken down like the Brock/Angle ironman did.


:dance Excellent. Saves me time


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> If you could, send me a link when you get done I'm gonna watch it and see how it compares with the RAW match I just went head over heels for.







Still processing but soon, you should be able to enjoy the greatest TV match ever. 



> *But the best would be to go check out his matches with Christian in 2009, specifically Breaking Point and the ECW TV match he had in England.* Those are all timers. Oh and definitely check out the match he had with Steamboat at HH.


Don't forget SummerSlam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Still processing but soon, you should be able to enjoy the greatest TV match ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget SummerSlam.




I own the "Biggest Little Man" set, so I can check out 6/23/05 Eddie/Rey whenever I want 

Benoit/Austin is easily the #2 for me though.

And I forgot Summerslam 

Guess you've seen all those then. Definitely check out the Halloween Havoc match with Steamboat then.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I recommend that steiners vs. bam/vader tag Zep uploaded (Y)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Skins, have you seen Steiners vs Gordy/Williams from CotC 19 and Beach Blast 92? I think you'd like those a lot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> I recommend that steiners vs. bam/vader tag Zep uploaded (Y)


That tag is godly, he sent it to me a while ago when I was looking for some VADER in Japan. Definitely worth the watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I feel like I'm missing out on Regal. Anyone can recommend me some classics he's had from the past? (not the recent NXT ones and no Benoit matches because I already seen them)


I think a good argument could be made that Regal v. Larry Zbyszko 5/28/94 is Regal's best match. I wouldn't be the one making it, but there's definitely an argument. So yeah watch that.



bigbuxxx said:


> Skins, have you seen Steiners vs Gordy/Williams from CotC 19 and Beach Blast 92? I think you'd like those a lot.


Oh God yes everybody should watch these. Beach Blast seems to be kind of polarizing because of its length but the Clash tag is undoubtedly incredible. IMO, WCW's best 2-on-2 tag.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

It's official, I enjoy Steve Austin roughly 12029238093 times more as a heel in the ring than as a face. I just finished the Benoit/Austin SD match, and I can now say wholeheartedly that anyone who says Austin was a failure as a heel is just plain ignorant. Let alone the great work he put in in WCW were he was a heel too. He's just a complete nut. I love it.

Final Tally for Austin/Benoit series:

Raw: ****1/4
SD: ****3/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched the Lawler match Cactus linked 

:banderas

Now to keep watching the taker DVD on netflix


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I watched Angle/Triple H/Rock from SummerSlam 2000 last night and I finally have an opinion on it.

I thought it sucked, it felt like nothing happened, they really should have just had Triple H vs Angle in a singles match.

It's not unbearable but it's nothing special at the same time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Just watched the Lawler match Cactus linked
> 
> :banderas
> 
> Now to keep watching the taker DVD on netflix



If you have Amazon Prime you should really check out the "Memphis Heat" documentary I was pimping last night. It got me into a huge Memphis mood and I stayed up most of last night watching all the Lawler, Funk, Dundee, Austin Idol, Eddie Gilbert stuff I could find. I've been told you can't find a bad Lawler/Dundee match, and I've yet to see proof of otherwise. I just love the feel of all those matches. Everything feels big, every punch blows the roof off, all the selling is done to perfection.

How far are you on the Tombstone set?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Currently watching Adam Bomb vs Jeff Jarrett for the IC title.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> That's the one haha your the man bro thanks.
> 
> My thoughts? *Wow, how the fuck does this match not get brought up more?* Yes the Smackdown is probably better, but only by a small margin. This was just phenomenal, the crowd, the pacing, Austin being a complete psycho, Benoit's come back, Vinnie Mac being a goon on the outside. What a fucking match that was. This definitely should be brought up as a top 10 match in RAW history. Outside of the GOAT RAW match (the Power Trip-Benoit/Jericho tag) there isn't another match that I would say is just definitively BETTER.
> 
> ****1/4


With all due respect, fuck you and everyone that lives in your house. I bring this match up a lot, but the only person that ever responded to my comments was Cody, and he practically lives in this thread. Truly is a spectacular match. Benoit during that entire month span may have been arguably the greatest wrestler ever. EVER! I know C2D will agree, but others should too. Dude was perfect. Classic after classic.

Angle/HHH/Rock from Summerslam sucked. So boring when it became HHH/Rock. Their RAW match was so much better. Smackdown match was ok.

Steiners vs. Gordy/Williams matches are king. Definitely some of Steve Williams' best matches in America. Love his work in Japan, but Steve Williams was either excellent or horrible in the States. As time went on, he leaned towards the latter. Those matches though, he leaned towards the former. Steiners were Steiners, so 

:lmao at Wade Barrett on Smackdown.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> With all due respect, fuck you and everyone that lives in your house. I bring this match up a lot, but the only person that ever responded to my comments was Cody, and he practically lives in this thread. Truly is a spectacular match. Benoit during that entire month span may have been arguably the greatest wrestler ever. EVER! I know C2D will agree, but others should too. Dude was perfect. Classic after classic.


You're damn right he is. He wrestled with a neck injury and had several great matches in the span of one month. I swear I can never tire of putting him over. 

- Judgment Day with Angle and tag team turmoil same night
- Tag w/ Jericho vs Power Trip
- TLC III
- Austin Raw and Smackdown matches
- Angle steel cage
- KOTR three way with Austin and Jericho

Whoever I'd consider the second greatest wrestler would be a distant second after him.

And can someone fill me in on Barrett? Not gonna go out of my way to look up SD this week with the lack of Randal which equals zero interest from me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> And can someone fill me in on Barrett? Not gonna go out of my way to look up SD this week with the lack of Randal which equals zero interest from me.


Basically, he states the truth.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Basically, he states the truth.


That he's boring and has mediocre wrestling abilities?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> That he's boring and has mediocre wrestling abilities?


I said the _truth_. 

Okay, a little more detail, he tells the truth about Miz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He interrupts a Miz Vs Brodus match to tell everyone its terrible and starts a Miz is Awful chant :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched it. I admit that was funny by him. :lmao

lol @ Miz. It's like somebody backstage hates him and always loves having somebody verbally bury him. :lol


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Jeff Jarrett (c) w/The Roadie vs Adam Bomb for the Intercontinental Championship*

Not really exciting and quite possibly one of the worst ref bumps ever, but Bomb was over. That's a plus for me. *4/10*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> If you have Amazon Prime you should really check out the "Memphis Heat" documentary I was pimping last night. It got me into a huge Memphis mood and I stayed up most of last night watching all the Lawler, Funk, Dundee, Austin Idol, Eddie Gilbert stuff I could find. I've been told you can't find a bad Lawler/Dundee match, and I've yet to see proof of otherwise. I just love the feel of all those matches. Everything feels big, every punch blows the roof off, all the selling is done to perfection.
> 
> How far are you on the Tombstone set?


I have a family member who has prime, maybe I'll sneak the pass out of him

I'm on the HBK/Taker HIAC match :mark: 

But there were two Foley matches that I had never seen before that were AWESOME


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Adam Bomb w/Johnny Polo vs The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer*

Very short match with Bomb dominating Taker. The Deadman got in a few hits and finished with a chokeslam. Polo was served one too. Though it was '93, I guess they were still showing off the gimmick. *5/10*


----------



## The_Great_One2 (Jan 25, 2014)

Recently rewatched Angle/Benoit from the 03 rumble. Holy shit what a match. *****


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

eh, recently watched it and thought it was OK at best(NOT five stars!), would go ***3/4 for it

I think its overrated as hell but thats my opinion


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Adam Bomb vs Razor Ramon - WWF Superstars (3/22/94) 6/10*


----------



## The_Great_One2 (Jan 25, 2014)

Maybe it's not *****, but following HHH/Steiner probably made it seem much better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, cant argue with that point :lmao

Though I haven't seen that match before, but I'm aware its terrible

Its borderline 4 stars, but I was never a fan of their matches anyway


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Adam Bomb vs Bret Hart - WWF Superstars (1/2/94)*

Had to watch on mute due to the Vince/Johnny Polo announce team. I like listening to Raven, not as Polo though.

The bigger story focused on the Bret/Owen saga and his title shot heading into WM X, so what was happening in the ring kind of felt blah despite Bret's presence. *5/10*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Polo > Raven


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Polo > Raven



Eloquent and intelligent speaker > penetration of the eardrums via pencil commentary


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My favorite Raven match still is the WM 17 triple threat mainly because he gets his ass kicked the entire time

I haven't seen too much of him though, but I've soured on him after him having a terrible match with Regal at invasion 

Didn't know that was even fucking possible...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raven is kinda mostly sucky so no surprise he would have a bad match, even with Regal.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Raven was pretty awesome character wise though, but in the ring Hutz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never cared for his character either.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Eh, it was different, better than Sandman or dreamer character wise(I dig Dreamer in the ring though)

Not watching any wrestling ATM, just got into Dexter on netflix bama4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I will be watching KOTR 2001 and No Way Out 2002 very soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skip everything bar the street fight for KOTR.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Raven's stuff in 1998. Economy four star match.

Never realized just how good Morrison/McIntyre TLC 09 was until now. Morrison's 2009 is so good. Might even be workhorse of the year. I know what I'm gonna watch.

Scratch that. CHRISTIAN is workhorse of the year.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Both of those shows are decent IIRC

Shane vs Angle :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Put on Summerslam 2011 this afternoon, here were my thoughts I wrote down before I went out tonite




> *Summerslam 2011*
> 
> henry/sheamus- pretty good loved big men wars
> 
> ...


Loved punk/cena was stellar and MOTN the standard Main event in my eyes just great. Loved henry/sheamus as well


Orton/Christian was tricky for me, thought it was ok,not a strain to watch but idk what they were doing in it ?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd give the six man tag a watch. I thought it was pretty good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The opening tag is loads of fun IMO, doesn't sound good on paper but it is


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SS 2011 Ratings (for the matches I remember):

Sheamus/Henry- ***1/4
Barrett/Bryan- ***3/4
Orton/Christian- ****
Punk/Cena- ****

Great show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I find SummerSlam kinda overrated. Sheamus/Henry is a good match, I never saw the six man tag because I was searching for a good stream at the time, Bryan/Barrett might be Barrett's best match ever and Christian/Orton is the MOTN by far. Main event was very mediocre and boring last I rewatched it. Not shit compared to their MITB classic.

As for KOTR 2001 - the triple threat main event is awesome even if it could've been better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That Punk hate C2D :ti

tough to say a MOTN, might need to rewatch both title matches


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk hate? Nah, I just find it pretty dull and a poor version of MITB which is a classic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

As long as you find the MITB match a classic

I just rewatched that maybe a week ago, fucking beautiful


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I've been wary of watching the Cena/Punk match from SS '11 because I heard that Kevin Nash gets involved somehow, and that just sounds annoying as hell to me. Maybe the match is worth it, though.


Some random matches I've watched over the past few days:


*Triple H vs. Mankind at KoTR 97 Finals* - The first ten minutes or so were the most "nothing" minutes of my life. Felt like there were barely even any basics being done. I might be remembering it wrong, but fuck me, it really came across as someone just learning to wrestle. Very odd, but Foley's control segments were awful here. It got better, but I found the whole thing pretty meh. I did like H's antics afterward. For some reason, every time he does that bow it makes me laugh. I liked him better in those days.


OTOH, I did like *Triple H vs. Dude Love at ONO '97*. Much livelier match. It was like night and day. Crowd helped a lot.

Just watched these so I can finally get to their encounters at the RR & HIAC, which everyone says is great, so I'm really looking forward to that stuff.


*Rock vs. Shamrock at KOTR Finals '98.* Started off kind of blah too, but maybe that's because I was moreso paying attention to H's commentary. The match then got really good. Lots of nice back and forth exchanges, near falls, and the ending actually shocked the hell out of me.

Good watch. I'm glad I bothered.

*** 1/2.


*Rock vs. Shamrock vs. Foley at IYH: Break Down (Steel Cage Match).* This was alright. Had some cool moments. The double People's elbow made me smile. Still, there was a lot of nonsensicalness in this, which I guess is kind of inevitable in steel cage matches. It just really irritates me when someone is standing right by the door, and doesn't even go for it. Seemed like there was a lot of that kind of stuff in this match.

The end was cool. 

** 1/2 - ** 3/4.


*Rock vs. HHH at Summerslam 1998 (Ladder Match)*. The first half of this was underwhelming, to the point where I was wondering why everyone had such high praise for it. Then suddenly it got electric, and I wish I could better describe it, but it had that great, epic, "sports entertainment" vibe. I usually hate that phrase, but it accurately describes this. Nothing crazy or unrealistic happens or anything, but it just felt like it captured that great main event feel, that you guys were talking about earlier.

I didn't realize how much I liked it until days later, when I was still thinking about it.

Great to see two young bucks going at it in their prime.

****


*Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle at KoTR '01 (Street Fight)*. I wanted to like this more than I did. I mean, it was enjoyable, but something about the pacing felt very off to me. Like they carefully thought about the big moments, and then to be damned with everything else. I did like Shane ducking and dodging and doing some nice counters on the outside. 

I'd heard about the "suplexes through glass" spot, but I actually thought that Shane getting suplexed against the glass and dropping right on his head on to the cement, looked far harsher. It actually made me cringe.

lol @ Shane being wheeled on top of that thingie.

*** 1/4, but it was more enjoyable than that. I just didn't think that it was "great", but it was certainly more fun than many "great" matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm kinda with C2D on the SSlam 11 main event. I don't think it's _boring_, but I expected a lot better. I've only seen it once though.

Anything worth watching from SD? I tuned in and saw the last few minutes of the main event and the obligatory brawl to hype up the RR :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Cena from Summerslam 2011 is piff. Second best match of a great year. God damn, when Cena actually uses his power advantage on wrestlers and when Punk works from under, how can you not get a high level match? Man what an awesome PPV.

Gonna go watch some more John Morrison in 2009. Yeah, dude was sex.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Always thought Punk/Cena from SummerSlam was worked better than their Money in the Bank classic, it just lacked the intangibles that made MitB amazing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: NITRO



John Morrison's sick 2009:

vs. Drew McIntyre (TLC): ****1/2*
vs. Edge (6/19): ******
vs. Rey Mysterio (9/4): *****1/4*
vs. Miz (Bragging Rights): ****3/4*
vs. Triple H (1/9): **** (LMFAO at HHH bringing in a table when there were already two set up)
vs. Shelton Benjamin (Judgment Day): ****1/4* (Holy shit, Shelton Benjamin nearly ruined this. Morrison carryjob!)
vs. Evan Bourne (4/14): *****1/4*



More to come. And write-ups too. Still need to watch the Punk series, some more McIntyre interactions, and the Ziggler matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

FF, do you plan on watching the Miz/Morrison vs DX match from '09? Or the Jericho one from Superstars?

Also, have you seen Morrison & Miz vs Jimmy Wang Yang & Shannon Moore from 1/8/08? For the life of me I can't find it but I fucking love that match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've actually seen the Miz/Morrison vs. Yang/Moore match series a year ago. I too can't find the 15 minutes of fame match. Love it so much. Didn't know the DX match was in 2009. I saw one where Nitro used the Nitro Blast. Superb.

I know it's the brawlers and physical guys that get the love here, but my favorite faces are the flashy, smaller sized guys like the Hardys, Morrisons, early Punks, and Zigglers of the world. I like fun in my midcard faces. Mysterio too can join the pack, but he's a different kind of flashy and I'm thinking more of guys above 200 lbs. Rollins is next in line.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ah shit, just checked and the DX one is actually late '08. Thought it was in January '09 for some reason.

I'm with you on that class of people. I actually enjoyed singles Jeff Hardy. Thought he generally put on a pretty good performance despite not being as polished in the ring.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

For people who have a lot of WWE Blu-Rays, have you guys noticed a difference in picture quality in old match footage from the 80's, 90's, and 2000's? I seen the difference in new HD footage between DVD and Blu-Ray and it's pretty big.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Brye said:


> I'm with you on that class of people. I actually enjoyed singles Jeff Hardy. Thought he generally put on a pretty good performance despite not being as polished in the ring.



I agree about Jeff ^^

Some my favorite single matches for Jeff Hardy would include
vs Triple H No Mercy 2008 ( and easily one of HHH's best single work as well)
vs HBK RAW feb 2008
vs Edge Judgment Day 2009
vs Morrison for the WHC on SD, i think it was july 2009
vs Orton RR 08
vs Umaga GAB 07
vs Angle Victory Road 2012
vs Austin Aries BFG


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Latest Upload for those who havn't seen it:

*Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (9/18/04) - IWA: Mid South*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just watched Funk/Flair Great American Bash. Am I crazy or is it every bit as good, maybe slightly better, than the much more heralded I Quit match at COTC? God I love middle aged crazy funk. His interactions with fans in the front row make me :lmao everytime.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

i like it better than the "i quit" match. i quit needed some blood to.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

etrbaby said:


> I agree about Jeff ^^
> 
> Some my favorite single matches for Jeff Hardy would include
> vs Triple H No Mercy 2008 ( and easily one of HHH's best single work as well)
> ...


Versus CM Punk in the SummerSlam 2009 TLC match and the re-match they had on Smackdown in a Cage I would like to point out. Can never forget the inspiring Ladder Match with The Undertaker in 2002. I also thought the Johnny Nitro match that opened Unforgiven in 2006 was quite good and often overlooked, as is the Stretcher Match with his brother Matt Hardy a couple weeks after WrestleMania XXV on Smackdown. He also has some other good TV stuff that is not mentioned with Umaga (Cage), Jericho, and Cena, all of which took place on Raw in 2008.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Way Out 2009:

SmackDown EC Match- ****1/4
Orton/Shane- ***1/4
Finlay/Swagger- *
HBK/JBL- **1/2, really dissapointed by this one
RAW EC Match- ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clique said:


> Versus CM Punk in the SummerSlam 2009 TLC match and the re-match they had on Smackdown in a Cage I would like to point out. Can never forget the inspiring Ladder Match with The Undertaker in 2002. I also thought the Johnny Nitro match that opened Unforgiven in 2006 was quite good and often overlooked, as is the Stretcher Match with his brother Matt Hardy a couple weeks after WrestleMania XXV on Smackdown. He also has some other good TV stuff that is not mentioned with Umaga (Cage), Jericho, and Cena, all of which took place on Raw in 2008.



If I was to rank the "Best of" Jeff Hardy, that Ladder Match on Raw with the Undertaker would probably be #1. Hard to top that. After that, the Cage match with Punk on Smackdown would be my solid #2. For the life of me I cannot remember the Stretcher match he had with Matt. It's not like I have seen it and forgot about it, I just had no idea they even had a stretcher match which is odd, I'll have to check that out.

What are your thoughts on the Ladder match he had with Edge at ER for the WHC?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I am not a fan of the ladder match with Edge. Outside of a couple of cool spots I thought it suffered from pacing issues. The Punk MITB cash-in is still a great moment. I would take Hardy's singles ladder matches with Nitro and Aries in TNA over it, and certainly the Raw classic with Undertaker.

Another good Jeff Hardy singles match is Cyber Sunday 2008 versus Triple H. Not on the level of No Mercy but another solid display of their chemistry together. 

Here's the Stretcher match versus Matt:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My top 10 Jeff Hardy matches  : ( no Hardy Boyz matces included)

10.vs HBK - RAW 2008 
9.vs Umaga- RAW January 2008
8. vs RVD- Summerslam 2001
7. vs Edge- Extreme Rules 2009
6. vs Morrison- SmackDown 2009
5. vs CM Punk- SmackDown Cage Match
4. vs HHH vs Edge- Armageddon
3. vs HHH- No Mercy 2008
2. vs CM Punk- Summerslam
1. vs Undertaker- RAW 2002


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clique said:


> I am not a fan of the ladder match with Edge. Outside of a couple of cool spots I thought it suffered from pacing issues. The Punk MITB cash-in is still a great moment. I would take Hardy's singles ladder matches with Nitro and Aries in TNA over it, and certainly the Raw classic with Undertaker.
> 
> Another good Jeff Hardy singles match is Cyber Sunday 2008 versus Triple H. Not on the level of No Mercy but another solid display of their chemistry together.
> 
> Here's the Stretcher match versus Matt:




I can't see that link for some reason :hmm: . I've actually never seen the Edge/Jeff Ladder match, it's on this History of the WHC set I own and I was just wondering if it was worth the watch.

edit-nvm it's working now thank you


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

If thats the backlash match, ehh pretty meh, cool spot at the end but that pretty much sucked IMO

Jeff Hardy is a funny case for me. His best stuff is awesome (See : raw vs/ hbk, cage vs. punk, NM vs HHH) but idk if its me but some of his other matches Ive seen him, he tries to be some technical wrestler and spams head locks


About Punk/Cena ss 11, I thought is was very well worked. It isnt mitb but what is, and I think they were trying something different in it. At summerslam it was two guys just trying to win at all close, both played it safe the first half were rarely going on the offense.And then towards the end the hecky middle porton and finish comes, I loved it


Never liked that taker/hardy ladder


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Backlash match was an "I Quit" Match and I agree it was sucky. The Stretcher Match is much better.


I'm watching Raw 08 versus Cena right now.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Clique said:


> Versus CM Punk in the SummerSlam 2009 TLC match and the re-match they had on Smackdown in a Cage I would like to point out. Can never forget the inspiring Ladder Match with The Undertaker in 2002. I also thought the Johnny Nitro match that opened Unforgiven in 2006 was quite good and often overlooked, as is the Stretcher Match with his brother Matt Hardy a couple weeks after WrestleMania XXV on Smackdown. He also has some other good TV stuff that is not mentioned with Umaga (Cage), Jericho, and Cena, all of which took place on Raw in 2008.



Yeahh all those matches are pretty good , I just tried to make my list of non-gimmick 1 on 1 matches ( I would also add the ladder match vs Edge and vs Aries), it'd take me a while to think of top 10 Jeff Hardy matches ever( single or gimmick) .. #1 would actually be pretty hard to pick


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

As far as Jeff Hardy goes, for me he was always at his best as the risk taking underdog rather than wrestling as an "equal" to his opponent. I think that's why I dislike a large amount of his TNA work. He was booked incredibly strongly and was kind of seen as "the guy" for quite a long time. Oh and also for reasons unbeknownst to me they turned him heel for a while too... oh and he is/was a massive drug addict and they let him get away with it. That may also have something to do with it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry for not responding to you Brye, but I was on mobile. As for Jeff Hardy, I would never call myself a member of the "Hardy Party" or whatever dumb name he calls his fans, but I really liked his 2007-2009 WWE run. Wilberforce described it really well; Hardy is at his best as a work-from-under babyface that takes risks because he has to. It worked well with bigger opponents because he truly felt like he had little chance to win. He also had some nice exhibitions with guys his size (Punk, Morrison, Jericho), but it wasn't because he tried to necessarily be their "equal" and try to "wrestle" them. He still stuck to his unique style instead of changing it.

More from Morrison!


Spoiler: NITRO



John Morrison's sick 2009:

Batch #1:
vs. Drew McIntyre (TLC): ****1/2*
vs. Edge (6/19): ******
vs. Rey Mysterio (9/4): *****1/4*
vs. Miz (Bragging Rights): ****3/4*
vs. Triple H (1/9): **** (LMFAO at HHH bringing in a table when there were already two set up)
vs. Shelton Benjamin (Judgment Day): ****1/4* (Holy shit, Shelton Benjamin nearly ruined this. Morrison carryjob!)
vs. Evan Bourne (4/14): *****1/4*

Batch #2:
vs. Jeff Hardy (7/31): ******
vs. Dolph Ziggler (10/30): ***3/4*
w/Finlay vs. Ziggler/Knox (9/25): ***3/4*
vs. Dolph Ziggler (10/7): *****
vs. Dolph Ziggler (11/13): ***3/4*
w/Hardyz vs. Punk/Hart Dynasty (8/21): ****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 2013 bluray came today :mark:.

Odds of me ever taking the wrapping off are about 10293845783287345789235346918746574831784567842674640135678567826 to 1 :lmao.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why do you do this to yourself in this tough economy?

:lmao John Morrison's episode in Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader is great. His babyface performance on that episode is freaking spectacular!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was on sale (rare for fremantle cunts) and I needed to add it to my collection of every RR event. I'll do the same with WM 29 which will likely finally go on fucking sale just before WM 30 (god fucking forbid fremantle do a sale for the hell of it). Though I actually want to own WM 29 at least for Punk/Undertaker in HD and to finally see the HOF ceremony because fuck downloading it, I wanna watch it on disc lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> It was on sale (rare for fremantle cunts) and I needed to add it to my collection of every RR event. I'll do the same with WM 29 which will likely finally go on fucking sale just before WM 30 (god fucking forbid fremantle do a sale for the hell of it). Though I actually want to own WM 29 at least for Punk/Undertaker in HD and to finally see the HOF ceremony because fuck downloading it, I wanna watch it on disc lol.



You can put me in the group of those who bought the WM 29 DVD just to own Punk/Taker in Blu Ray. Plus last year made it twice that HHH worked in front of a comatose crowd at Mania because Taker tore the house down right before him. I don't know why but it gives me enjoyment to know whenever Hunter has to suffer any form of indignity.

Am I alone in wishing the heel Authority Figure would just go away from wrestling for forever? I'm absolutely sick to death of Hunter and Stephanie, they add precisely nothing to the show and serve only to get themselves over at the expense of others.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> bought the WM 29 DVD just to own Punk/Taker in Blu Ray.


You bought the *DVD* to own a match in *Bluray*? 

Been watching a bunch of wrestling documentaries lately so I decided to list them, will be doing a video on them at some point in time once I've watched... all of them (WWE releases + any noteworthy non wwe release ones). 2 surprised me today that were better than I remembered them being, and I never thought they were bad to begin with.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Speaking of documentaries, has anyone here seen the last of Mcguinness? I want to know if it's worth shelling out for. I haven't bought a dvd without watching it online first for quite some time but I could never find it anywhere. I've heard good things but I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure I would have to have it shipped from the US aswell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That particular doc is top of my list and isn't likely to be topped by anything that has already been released. I backed his kickstarter project for it and got a signed copy with extras + signed photo. Well worth the money. Doc is AMAZING.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks for the quick response. I just went on his site and it says he's sold out of the full length doc which is a massive bummer. I was umming and ahhing about getting it for ages. I guess I should've just fucking bought it. I don't suppose there is anywhere else you know of I could get it from? I really would like to see it.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Just watched Mankind vs HBK mind games 1996, ****3/4 , maybe *****

Every second of that match I kept thinking I am seeing a classic between two of the GOATS, loved the entire action, even the interference by Vader and Taker ( which made me look up if these two ever fought and I found a few matches on youtube which are bookmarked now)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Normally I'd be all for directing people to places to get stuff for free, but this is a particular project I'm against people getting hold of for free. Just knowing the amount of time and effort he put into it, and how personal the project was to him and everything else surrounding it. Downloading free shit from WWE, who make stupid amounts of money while throwing out a shitty product half the time is one thing, but stealing from ONE guy who put everything into a project is another.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I should probably clarify I meant anywhere else I can buy it from.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Other than getting it second hand on ebay or the likes, Nigel's site was the only place to get it.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Well fucking fucklebucks. It actually saddens me a little that I may never get to see it lol. I guess I'll keep my eyes open on ebay but I can't see why anyone would sell it. Cheers for the quick responses anyway.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

For everyone who has netflix the street fight DVD and the Taker streak DVD were both put back on netflix again

how is the street fight DVD?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> For everyone who has netflix the street fight DVD and the Taker streak DVD were both put back on netflix again
> 
> how is the street fight DVD?



Stop what you are doing right now and go watch the first match on the Street Fight set, the Alley Fight with Pat Patterson. Absolutely glorious, one of the best Street Fights ever.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^Will do 

EDIT: Just watched :banderas

That was insane


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The street fight dvd is a lot of fun. I really enjoy Shane v Test at Summerslam 99.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The last disc par the HBK/HHH SS match seems like a huge waste

The fact that Eddie vs JBL JD isn't on there is pretty disheartening


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well considering Eddie/JBL wasn't a street fight I'm not surprised... .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its still one of the better no DQ matches of all time


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It wasn't No DQ either... hence Eddie losing via DQ... :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at Smitty burying himself :berried


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at Smitty burying himself :berried



I can see where that match would give off the street fight vibe, as more than half of it took place outside of the ring....but yea kinda hard to think that's a no DQ match when Eddie DQ's himself by clocking JBL with the title. 

As much as I hate to admit it, the Triple H/Umaga Street Fight was actually rather badass, I believe that's on the third disc and definitely worth the watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Umaga  I was a fan of his TBH. Probably should have gotten a title run at some point.


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm late to the party, but what were the best WWE/NXT matches of the year? I only had opportunities to catch a handful of pay-per-views and a smattering of TV episodes, sadly.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

IronMaiden7 said:


> I'm late to the party, but what were the best WWE/NXT matches of the year? I only had opportunities to catch a handful of pay-per-views and a smattering of TV episodes, sadly.


I assume you've seen the big stuff like Punk/Lesnar, Bryan/Cena, etc.

So make sure you watch:
Ziggler/Del Rio at Payback
Bryan/Orton at RAW December 16, 2013


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IronMaiden7 said:


> I'm late to the party, but what were the best WWE/NXT matches of the year? I only had opportunities to catch a handful of pay-per-views and a smattering of TV episodes, sadly.


Must watch stuff of 2013:

1. Brock vs Punk Summerslam
2. Punk vs Taker WrestleMania
3. Bryan vs Cena Summerslam
4. Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro 2/3 Falls NXT
5. Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal NXT
6. CM Punk vs John Cena Raw Feb. 25 2013
7. Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio Payback
8. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton Raw December 16
9. The Shield vs Rhodes Bros Battleground
10. Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro Raw


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Umaga  I was a fan of his TBH. Probably should have gotten a title run at some point.


Agreed. Umaga should have won the WHC at some point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Umaga would have made a better WHC than someone like Khali, but aside from that I can't think of a decent reason for him to have been champ. He was solid in the ring but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that was special (not fapping to the Cena match doesn't help lol).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need something to watch


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPswLUSgwTI


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Agree completely with Killa. Umaga is a good wrestler, but he isn't championship material. He's not the kind of guy that can carry a company or lead a feud. He works best as an obstacle for a champion. 

Now that there's only one world title, that idea of a champion being decided by whether or not they can "lead" a feud will be more important. I'm sorry to say this fellas, but I'm afraid I've got some bad news regarding Sheamus. As talented as this man is, he doesn't give off the vibe of a guy that should be a champion in a company with one world title. Sheamus had his opportunities, but I've never seen him successfully carry a feud. I would love to see evidence otherwise, but his one good title feud (Big Show) was certainly led by Big Show who did the bulk of the good work on the mic. Put Sheamus in the same presence as other main eventers, and he looks like an upper midcarder. Heck, in 2010 he looked out of place whenever he was in the championship picture alongside Cena, Orton, Edge, Jericho, and HHH. And then in 2012, he looked like a joke when interacting with Punk.

Alright guys, prove me wrong. I want to get buried.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It doesn't matter if he can lead a feud or not though. Look at Orton. Guy can't do shit and he's the current champion .


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Whats the next best trilogy of matches besides Flair/Steamboat?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> It doesn't matter if he can lead a feud or not though. Look at Orton. Guy can't do shit and he's the current champion .



I think we all agree that Orton shouldn't be champion though, don't we 

I think the most important things a champion needs to have are versatility and consistency. He needs to be able to shape his promo game and in ring work to his opponent, and he needs to consistently deliver good-great matches whenever he's called upon to defend the title. That's why I believe Orton is no good for the WWE title right now, him having below average matches PPV after PPV just decreases interest in the title scene. The title match should be the most looked forward to match on the card, and once NOC happened and we realized Orton was gonna stink the joint out with even a worker as great as Bryan, I think interest decreased as well. The finishes to NOC and Battleground certainly hurt it just as much if not more.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Next best trilogy of matches is Kobashi/Misawa/Kawada vs. Fuchi/Taue/Tsuruta.

I actually think Orton has picked it up on the mic these past couple of months. He's also proven before multiple times in the past that he can carry a feud. Of course, his championship run right now is a mess, but he still gives off a greater championship vibe than the Zigglers, Mizes and Sheamuses of the world.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

fpalm at me :berried myself, when I thought of that match my mind first thought of it was the chair shot, but it was because the ref was down :lmao 

But seriously, everyone should watch the Patterson/Slaughter match, so much :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sheamus can put on better matches than Orton right now so that makes him > Orton as a potential champion for me. As long as someone can deliver in the ring I pretty much don't care .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™;29123657 said:


> Whats the next best trilogy of matches besides Flair/Steamboat?


Off the top of my head some really good ones..... 

Bret Hart v Austin
Bret v Owen 
Edge & Christian/Hardyz/Dudleyz
Austin v Rock.... Backlash 99, WM 17 and WM 19
Taker v Foley
Rock v Foley
Punk v Samoa Joe
Punk v Jeff Hardy
Brock v Taker
Brock v Angle 
Foley v HHH in 1997
Angle v Pegasus
Cena v Edge
Orton v Christian 
Jericho v HBK
Jericho v Rey
Taker v Orton
Punk v Cena MitB, Summerslam and NoC
Undertaker v Batista.... Wrestlemania 23, Backlash Last Man Standing, Smackdown Steel cage Match
Taker v HHH WM 17, 27 and 28



You could even put :hbk3 :taker Ground Zero, Badd Blood and Royal Rumble


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Off the top of my head some really good ones.....
> 
> You could even put :hbk3 :taker Ground Zero, Badd Blood and Royal Rumble


OR just say BB, WM 25 and WM 26 .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> He's also proven before multiple times in the past that he can carry a feud.


When?

edit (this is about Orton)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

AS long as someone can work and deliver in ring and I'm actually interested in there, and I dont jump to my remote to change the channel ,I'm good


Ive made observations, and I think I understand why Orton the worker is horrid nowadays


Edit: is it that hard to say Benoit instead of Pegasus ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Skins watch the Patterson/slaughter match on netflix, first match on the street fight DVD


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

King Cal said:


> OR just say BB, WM 25 and WM 26 .



Damn. If that counts that rivals Chi Town Rumble, CotC and Wrestle War probably. 

I watched Royal Rumble 98 the other day and found myself really enjoying the casket match. 



SKINS25 said:


> Edit: is it that hard to say Benoit instead of Pegasus ?


It's a shot at the E for not acknowledging his existence. You'll be ok. (Y)


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Flair/Steamboat were all in one year soo I think BB then WMs is cheating


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Can someone tell me if these dvd are double sided or normal disk with artwork?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SEALED-WWE-Tagged-Classics-Royal-Rumble-2001-2002-DVD-WWF-Rare-01-02-/321302891402?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_DVDs_DVDs_GL&hash=item4acf250b8a


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Skins watch the Patterson/slaughter match on netflix, first match on the street fight DVD


I checked it out for abit, I dont think I was in the mood for it as I couldnt get into it, I'll try another day

That regal/steamboat match was (Y) Cal, all of you have probably seen it 10x by now and knew


I watched sting/foley bb 92 on that DVD, pretty good not a the huge fan of the "brawl all around the arena" matches but I wasnt bothered this time, seemed really short too


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I had actually watched it about a year ago and hated it, watched it today and was blown away


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> I checked it out for abit, I dont think I was in the mood for it as I couldnt get into it, I'll try another day
> 
> That regal/steamboat match was (Y) Cal, all of you have probably seen it 10x by now and knew
> 
> ...



Outside of his Vader classics, that Beach Blast brawl with Jack is probably my favorite Sting match, even over the matches he had with Flair. I'm biased towards Mick's style always, but I just felt they hit the sweet spot with that match being both a wild brawl but also being a great piece of art. The length also worked in it's favor as it never dragged, not even for a moment. I love the dynamic that you get when Mick faces a pretty boy-baby face type. They are left with no choice but to FIGHT and become badasses. I see this match as a lesser MindGames.


Edit-Just remembered the new Foley set has the Sting/Jack Power Hour match. I don't know if I've ever seen it, I'm gonna check it out now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My only complaint about the Foley set that just came out is the lack of a match with :vader


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Foley's 2003(ish) DVD is a must. Has the match with Vader on there (where Vader breaks his nose).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Love that DVD

Get the hardcore version, has all his good post retirement match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> When?
> 
> edit (this is about Orton)


I thought the Age of Orton was one good feud after another. Orton's feuds with Michaels, Jericho, Hardy, and Cena during that time were good mainly due to him. I also thought he was the reason why the Mysterio feud was good. In both of their big matches, I was more impressed by Orton's douchy heel performance than Mysterio's babyface stuff. He also was the centerpiece of the HHH feud in 2009. Of course their match was hideous, but the feud prior to the match was very well done, and it was thanks to Orton. Dude even made a Kofi Kingston feud interesting back in 2009.

Man, I did not know Batista shat on Bryan back in 2011 when Bryan won the World Title.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Any love for Vengeance 2005? I was 16 years old at the time and I freakin loved that PPV at the time. it still holds up very well

HBK vs. Kurt Angle II - another incendiary classic by these 2 legends. the final spot is awesome :mark:

Cena vs. Y2J vs. Christian - good triple threat for the wwe title. cena was still fresh at the time. one of the last matches for y2j and christian in wwe before leaving for a long time.

HHH vs. Batista - great HIAC. bloody and good use of the weapons. one of the top 5 matches for batista.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Man, I did not know Batista shat on Bryan back in 2011 when Bryan won the World Title.


What did you expect ? He has the same mentality as his buddy HHH where he thinks only THA BIG GUYS should be champions and main eventers. This is the same guy who thinks AJ Styles is a bad wrestler lmao 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Any love for Vengeance 2005? I was 16 years old at the time and I freakin loved that PPV at the time. it still holds up very well
> 
> HBK vs. Kurt Angle II - another incendiary classic by these 2 legends. the final spot is awesome :mark:
> 
> ...


Went to that show, so it's one of my all-time favorites by default.

HBK vs. Angle is really good IMO, but I hate the finish. Haven't watched the triple threat in forever but I remember it being decent, and Batista vs. HHH is awesome. :batista2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think I'll ever "get" the Cena/Christian/Jericho triple threat. Bored the shit out of me. Opener was definitely better. Vengeance was the second best PPV of 2005 for me behind ONS 2005, but ONS isn't that high for match quality reasons.

Armageddon 2005 is pretty underappreciated. Good solid show. Surprised by how much I enjoyed the tag matches. Benoit/Booker still holds up for me and the main event is as good as advertised. Huge upgrade from No Mercy 2005 which was an otherwise poor effort from the WWE.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't think I'll ever "get" the Cena/Christian/Jericho triple threat. Bored the shit out of me. Opener was definitely better. Vengeance was the second best PPV of 2005 for me behind ONS 2005, but ONS isn't that high for match quality reasons.
> 
> Armageddon 2005 is pretty underappreciated. Good solid show. Surprised by how much I enjoyed the tag matches. Benoit/Booker still holds up for me and the main event is as good as advertised. Huge upgrade from No Mercy 2005 which was an otherwise poor effort from the WWE.


Only the Hell In A Cell is worth watching. the rest of the card is really crap. there is no world title match... like wtf? 

You want a good armageddon check out the 2006 one with the inferno match, last ride match and the crazy ladder match. funny enough this Armageddon too don't have a world title match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched the final 4 of every Rumble since 2000, mainly because I want to sleep tonight and also because I've already seen most of these at least once. Some random thoughts:



Spoiler: CLICK FOR SOME NONSENSE



2000: Big guy hoisting smaller guy over his shoulder before losing count - 1
2001: The crowd exploded for the Rock and Austin stare down. Funny how WWE would try something similar ten years later...
2002: ANGLE. 
2003: I remember being so sure that Taker was gonna win this when I was watching this BACK IN THE DAY (I kinda hate that expression).
The Lost Royal Rumble: Big guy hoisting smaller guy over his shoulder before losing count - 2 (and Spike Dudley got SCREWED)
2005: Was the finish really a botch? Because if it was, it WORKED.
2006: Big guy hoisting smaller guy over his shoulder before losing count - 3
2007: DAT FINAL SEQUENCE. :mark:
2008: I completely forgot that Batista was the third guy left. LOLCENAWINS
2009: Nothing like the final two guys in the Rumble going on to have a shitty match to main event WrestleMania. :side:
2010: Meh.
2011: I also watched the first few minutes because it's Punk vs. Bryan, dammit. I probably enjoyed that more than the final four 
2012: DAT FINAL SEQUENCE AGAIN. :mark:
2013: LOLCENAWINS. Oh, and Big guy hoisting smaller guy over his shoulder before losing count - 4
2014: LOLBATISTAPROBABLYWINS


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

> 2012: DAT FINAL SEQUENCE AGAIN. :mark:


LOVED IT :mark:

Serious lack of Sheamus imo can't wait for his return. :dance


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, hurray for Sheamus' return... too bad that he's the one they're sticking Bryan with at Mania. You're telling me that Bryan/Sheamus is one of the main matches of WRESTLEMANIA 30 after:

1) they got robbed of an opportunity TWICE at Mania before, which drained all my hype for it again;
2) Bryan became one of the top stars of the company and should have a better role;
3) the single purpose of having a great match and that's it?

Wow. Vince is a full blown IDIOT. Lesnar/Bryan was robbed from us. Hell, I'd think that they would go for that, and then finally allow Cena/Taker to happen, but nope. Taker/Lesnar is a good choice too, but they should've done that last year, and if Hunter wanted his rematch so bad, let it happen at the Royal Rumble or stuff like that. It's not like it would've hurt Brock's chances either because Taker is NEVER going to lose at Mania. You could have Super Saijyan 5 Goku challenging the streak and Taker would've still won.

Plus, Cena/Wyatt and Orton/Batista? The latter I already knew, but CENA/WYATT is one of the main matches of WRESTLEMANIA 30? fpalm

Only care much about Punk/HHH, really. WWE, you fucking RUINED my hype if this is what you're going with.

Sorry for the rant but I had to do it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, with that rumoured matches WM30 is shaping up to be quite an awful big show


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sheamus vs. Bryan, given time, is almost a guaranteed MOTYC. I don't care Yes he deserves to be in the main event but even if he faces Lesnar he's not going to be _the_ main event, so why FORCE the dream matches on us just BECAUSE. Lesnar/Bryan doesn't make any sense anyway unless Bryan wins the rumble and Brock wins the title. Win, lose or draw Bryan's going to be just as over post Mania, if not more so, there isn't any rush. Either he gets put with an amazing wrestler like Sheamus, or he's in one of the main events, or both. The only way we lose out as fans is if they put him with some shithead (Wyatt ) in an undercard match where he doesn't get time/an opponent to put a MOTYC on like he should/could and he doesn't get a main event/co-main event spotlight either.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Finally got around to watching Jericho vs HBK @ No Mercy 08. I didn't like it. It was a fine match but too much setting up, was dull, and the ending was bad. ****ish and I feel that's being generous. That being said, I'll probably rewatch it to see if I just wasn't in the mood for it this time.

Also watched their unsanctioned match from Unforgiven 08. That match was awesome. A high ****1/4 for that match. Great stuff.

I love how they hate each other so much but in both matches HBK takes out the monitors of the tables to make it hurt less. Logic in wrestling!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Finally got around to watching Jericho vs HBK @ No Mercy 08. I didn't like it. It was a fine match but too much setting up, was dull, and the ending was bad. ****ish and I feel that's being generous. That being said, I'll probably rewatch it to see if I just wasn't in the mood for it this time.
> 
> Also watched their unsanctioned match from Unforgiven 08. That match was awesome. A high ****1/4 for that match. Great stuff.
> 
> I love how they hate each other so much but in both matches HBK takes out the monitors of the tables to make it hurt less. Logic in wrestling!




Lol I would be tempted to point out that you said "I didn't like it" but then gave it ****, except I know exactly what you mean. I didn't really like it either but I gave it ***3/4, and that was 99% because Jericho was so good. Michaels didn't do shit for me in that match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Lol I would be tempted to point out that you said "I didn't like it" but then gave it ****, *except I know exactly what you mean*.


good. i thought about omitting that part because i realize it can be taken as contradictory but it really isn't.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its the day of the rumble! Usually I'd be up for watching rumbles all day long but I have a shit ton of work to get done, and hopefully I'll be able to finish up by the time it starts

and (Y) for hating on Y2J/HBK NM, match is so overrated imo, ***1/2 at the highest, but then again, the last time I watched it it was like 4 AM


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FLUX said:


> Sheamus vs. Bryan, given time, is almost a guaranteed MOTYC. I don't care Yes he deserves to be in the main event but even if he faces Lesnar he's not going to be _the_ main event, so why FORCE the dream matches on us just BECAUSE. Lesnar/Bryan doesn't make any sense anyway unless Bryan wins the rumble and Brock wins the title. Win, lose or draw Bryan's going to be just as over post Mania, if not more so, there isn't any rush. Either he gets put with an amazing wrestler like Sheamus, or he's in one of the main events, or both. The only way we lose out as fans is if they put him with some shithead (Wyatt ) in an undercard match where he doesn't get time/an opponent to put a MOTYC on like he should/could and he doesn't get a main event/co-main event spotlight either.


If we're talking Bryan/Lesnar, it's not forcing, it's capitalizing on the most absolute spot-on opportunity to make one of the biggest dream matches they can with the current roster happen. Lesnar is on the hunt for the WWE WHC. And he's a fucking monster, one of the best of that kind ever in the WWE. Bryan could've gotten himself the RR match victory. And he's one of the best underdogs possibly ever in the WWE, and by far the roster's most over guy. It's a match made in heaven right there. Think Lesnar/Eddie back in 2004, add to that 70,000 roaring fans inside the Superdome in Orleans, and the epicness of BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON winning the Undisputed Title V2 at the Main Event of WrestleMania 30, arguably the WWE's most important show EVER. Surreal is an understatement. I know that Lesnar/Bryan would likely not end up the Main Event, but that happening would be stupid anyway because no other match they could have would be any bigger. Unless they happened to have one Taker/Cena in the card. Of course, if the Extreme Rules '12, Street Fight or Raw 2013 matches are any indication, Bryan/Sheamus is a pair of extreme chemistry, and they could very well put on a MOTYC. But still, Bryan is by far the most sympathetic and most appealing character in the roster, he's probably the most over babyface since the fucking Rock, and he's still owed a proper WWE Title reign. Vince himself absolutely loves him. If they put him in there with Sheamus for no reason, that would just be disgraceful. If they're doing that just for Batista to have his spotlight, they are being retards cause Batista's contract lasts about four years, and four years is a long ass time for him to get the belt, why now when others need it more than he does. And it's not like he needs at all it either. Hell, I'd bloody take the planned Bryan/Wyatt match over that one. At least it had a reason to properly exhist. WM matches shouldn't be done mere weeks before the show just because. And because you mentioned Wyatt, let's not forget that he can still have a big match at Mania without Cena. How? Two words: THE SHIELD. You do know that they supposedly ain't breaking up until Mania, right Vince?

I only say that if this is the card they're going with - FUCK THE W-W-FUCKING-E FOREVER. And it's not butthurt rage or anything, it's just putting so much potential down the fucking toilet after taking a very hard shit with it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think I might agree. The best possible card WWE could give us for WM 30 I believe is this:

Main Events:

Cena vs The Undertaker for the Streak (Goes on last)
Bryan vs Lesnar for the WWE WHC
Punk vs HHH 
Orton vs Batista

Mid-Card:

The Shield vs The Wyatts in a TLC Match 
[insert 2 more matches for feuds they develop between now and then]

Opener:

Cody Rhodes vs Goldust (Callback to Brother vs Brother at WM10)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^this is basically all I want at this point, dont understand why it would be so fucking hard 

Just dont let Cena end the streak plz


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Happy Royal Rumble day everybody. Has always been my favorite PPV. Some of my favorite wrestling memories. DiBiase buying #30, the Hogan/Warrior showdown, Savage costing Warrior the title in 1991, the GOAT performance from :flair , a couple forgotten Bret Hart gems vs Razor, Diesel and Taker not to mention when wen turned on Bret, 3 faces of Foley in 98, HHH/Foley Street fight in 2000, Kane's awesomeness in 2001, etc etc. 

Call me a smark but I really wanna see :bryan3 win. Seriously if it's anyone but Bryan, Punk or Batista I will be surprised. Too soon for :reigns and I'd love to see a dark horse win it like Dolph, Sandow or even :hhh2 but lets be honest that's probably not going to happen. 




Cactus Jack said:


> I think I might agree. The best possible card WWE could give us for WM 30 I believe is this:
> 
> Main Events:
> 
> ...


I like it. Add in something like Big E vs Ryback for the IC title and Real Americans vs The Usos are that is a solid show. Can they please put the fucking tag titles on the Real Americans already. 

I wonder how this card would come about. Maybe Batista costs Orton the title tonight and Orton helps eliminate Batista from the Rumble and :bryan3 wins the Rumble. 

Cena loses the title to :brock at EC

Even though a Brock/Bryan match could be fantastic (they could promote it as Daniel vs Goliath) I don't think Bryan would win cleanly. Bryan would probably win with some shenanigans.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Honestly if Cena/Orton delivers(unlikely) then this could be one of the best Rumble undercards ever

I'm hoping that WWE has been purposely linking these Batista rumble win rumors just so DB winning can be a big surprise


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH/Punk & BROCK/Taker is good enough to secure a buy from me, something tells me that outside of those two matches the proposed card is completely phony. 

I mean, the ONLY way Cena/Wyatt works is if Hogan's and/or Warrior is involved. THAT would be fucking cool, Sheamus/Bryan should be fantastic if it does indeed happen though. I love big Dave so it'll be cool to see him do well in his return, but his booking is Cena 2013 levels of obviousness at this point, whether or not WWE throws us a curveball or not we'll find out tonight.

Speaking of Batista, I'm watching the third disc of his DVD & the first match is the absolutely terrible Survivor Series match against Booker T. The moment at the end is cool and the Batista bomb is pretty vicious, but the match itself is quite the horrendous affair. JBL calling Teddy Long racist on commentary is :lol.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> HHH/Punk & BROCK/Taker is good enough to secure a buy from me


You mean you are not getting the WWE network? :vince7


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Yeah, hurray for Sheamus' return..*. too bad that he's the one they're sticking Bryan with at Mania.* You're telling me that Bryan/Sheamus is one of the main matches of WRESTLEMANIA 30 after:
> 
> 1) they got robbed of an opportunity TWICE at Mania before, which drained all my hype for it again;
> 2) Bryan became one of the top stars of the company and should have a better role;
> 3) the single purpose of having a great match and that's it?





Srdjan99 said:


> Y*eah, with that rumoured matches WM30 is shaping up to be quite an awful big show*


In the nicest way possible, I would love if all these rumored mania NOT be said here in the open, or atleast put them in spoiler tags. I was talking about this with someone else when he asked if I heard the rumored matches, I may be in the 10% group, but I wanted to be surprised and know when hte wwe confirms stuff, I know its hard to not in this type of sport but pls I ask we put them in spoiler

For example I didnt even know bryan/sheamus were "rumored". And tbhayley I dont believe it I think there just fucking w/ bryan fans now, he is said to have a different opponent every week and ppl flip out :lol



bigbuxxx said:


> Finally got around to watching Jericho vs HBK @ No Mercy 08. I didn't like it. It was a fine match but too much setting up, was dull, and the ending was bad. ****ish and I feel that's being generous. That being said, I'll probably rewatch it to see if I just wasn't in the mood for it this time.
> 
> Also watched their unsanctioned match from Unforgiven 08. That match was awesome. A high ****1/4 for that match. Great stuff.
> 
> I love how they hate each other so much but in both matches HBK takes out the monitors of the tables to make it hurt less. Logic in wrestling!


Yea (Y) I dont like this match either. Probably the only or one of the only BIG time Michaels matches I loathe ( I think their wm 19 match is the other ) way tooo dull,


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

For those shitting on the idea of Bryan/Sheamus I wonder if you have seen their match at Extreme Rules because it's fantastic. That being said I really have no desire to see it again right now. Down the road sure but not at Mania 30.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> In the nicest way possible, I would love if all these rumored mania NOT be said here in the open, or atleast put them in spoiler tags. I was talking about this with someone else when he asked if I heard the rumored matches, I may be in the 10% group, but I wanted to be surprised and know when hte wwe confirms stuff, I know its hard to not in this type of sport but pls I ask we put them in spoiler
> 
> For example I didnt even know bryan/sheamus were "rumored". And tbhayley I dont believe it I think there just fucking w/ bryan fans now, he is said to have a different opponent every week and ppl flip out :lol
> 
> ...




I still think you are nuts for not digging WM 19, I thought Jericho/Michaels was the best match on that entire show, and that's my favorite Mania ever. I know it was flashy and I know HBK was all "IM THE SHOWSTOPPA MOTHAFUCKAAAAA" but it was his first Mania since he came back so I thought it was appropos. Plus the ending with Jericho kicking Michaels in the grape fruits was fabulous.

Then again, I'm a massive sucker for those Student vs Teacher-esque story lines. I know that doesn't technically apply for this match but you know what I mean.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lets predict the star ratings for the WM matches that haven't even been announced yet shall we?

Lesnar V Undertaker ****1/2
Orton V Batista ***1/2
HHH V Punk **** (maybe if Punks motivated and HHH doesn't work at a snails pace)
Cena V Wyatt ***
Bryan V Sheamus ***3/4 (will not be given more then 13 minutes imo)

That looks alright to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'm a bit MEH about those dirtsheets TBH, let's see what unfolds tonight.

I'm pretty convinced that this show will rule based on the complete AWESOMENESS that is BROCK LESNAR. Orton Vs Cena does NOTHING for me but maybe this is "one of those nights" for Orton where he comes out fresh and motivated heading into Mania season.. We can dream, right?

More DAVE to be watched ASAP. VS FINLAY VS KING BOOKER :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I still think you are nuts for not digging WM 19, I thought Jericho/Michaels was the best match on that entire show, and that's my favorite Mania ever. I know it was flashy and I know HBK was all "IM THE SHOWSTOPPA MOTHAFUCKAAAAA" but it was his first Mania since he came back so I thought it was appropos. Plus the ending with Jericho kicking Michaels in the grape fruits was fabulous.
> 
> Then again, I'm a massive sucker for those Student vs Teacher-esque story lines. I know that doesn't technically apply for this match but you know what I mean.


Understood, and agree to disagree

Ya know i understand the story behind it and respect master vs student if you will, I saw it more that they were trying to make it seem like it was hbk wrestling himself and what not. But the middle portion is pretty boring, it was like they didnt know what to do and improvised w/ the mentallity "Hey lets do some guy stuff" . Just dont like it anymore


I dont even care about the ppv DAT Preshow Panel :banderas


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Lets predict the star ratings for the WM matches that haven't even been announced yet shall we?
> 
> Lesnar V Undertaker ****1/2
> Orton V Batista ***1/2
> ...



Wrestlemania 35...

Big E v Alexander Rusev ***
Cesaro v Bryan ****
Roman Reigns v Bo Dallas *** 1/2
Dolph v Kofi *
Zayn v Rollins ****
Cena (Sean) v Ambrose ***
Fandango v Miz (streak vs streak) **


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have zero faith/expectation/hope in Trips being watchable in a match now, even against Punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THAT BRET SIG/AVY COMBO :mark:.

Not enough love for guys like Hogan & Bret on this forum, don't think I've seen ten combined Hogan/Bret sigs (Like, good ones ) since I've came on here, people opt to go for guys who are more relevant to today's product instead.

Anyways, I just want to see a Mania card where the undercard matches are given some time to develop and be good, rather than just having the Taker match be a classic and everything else being very MEH material. Give me guys like Rollins & Cesaro shining out there PLEASE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> For those shitting on the idea of Bryan/Sheamus I wonder if you have seen their match at Extreme Rules because it's fantastic. That being said I really have no desire to see it again right now. Down the road sure but not at Mania 30.


I clearly mentioned Extreme Rules + their Street Fight and Raw July '13 matches in my long ass rant 

My problem with that possibility is not the match quality itself, it's that the idea just sucks when compared to other shots like the much more ambitious in both match quality-wise and feud-wise Lesnar/Bryan.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If WWE had a brain, they'd let Goldust/Cody open the show

it'll probably be like a 5 min filler match though fpalm


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Despite the shit finish I thought unk6 :hhh2 at NoC 2011 was really good. But that was 2 1/2 years ago. If it's anywhere close to that I'd be happy. If they can get :austin2 or iper as the special guest referee I'd be down. 

I really think Mania is long overdue for a Piper's Pit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> THAT BRET SIG/AVY COMBO :mark:.
> 
> Not enough love for guys like Hogan & Bret on this forum, don't think I've seen ten combined Hogan/Bret sigs (Like, good ones ) since I've came on here, people opt to go for guys who are more relevant to today's product instead.


 Bret (along with Taker) was my first favorite when i started watching wrestling. More than likely going to be changing my Username to The Hitman next week too lol.

Ive still got a pair of replica Hitman sunglasses that i bought as a kid around 20 years ago, which i still cant fucking find.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> I clearly mentioned Extreme Rules + their Street Fight and Raw July '13 matches in my long ass rant
> 
> My problem with that possibility is not the match quality itself, it's that the idea just sucks when compared to other shots like the much more ambitious in both match quality-wise and feud-wise Lesnar/Bryan.



I was referring to others. I agreed with your rant.  



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> THAT BRET SIG/AVY COMBO :mark:.
> 
> Not enough love for guys like Hogan & Bret on this forum


I'm obviously a Bret fan (see sig) but I agree not as much love for old school shit on this forum. 

I went to a house show in 1991 (I was like 10) and a kid I went to school with was ringside and he got Hitman's glasses. 

As for Hogan not a fan but respect him. I like the idea of him "hosting" WM 30.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think I'm the only one that doesn't want to see Cody vs. Goldust, doesn't interest me whatsoever. Infact let me rephrase that... CODY doesn't interest me whatsoever and a feud between the two would mean Cody turns to singles competition, he'll probably go over in the feud and Goldust will be released or irrelevant again.

LOSE LOSE SITUATION.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It had a Piper's Pit already, twice before. None of them turned to be properly amazing moments 

That being said, I do hope the WWE does a callback-fest at WM 30 for obvious reasons. Cody/Goldust as the opener in callback to Bret/Owen; Taker killing himself in a callback to Taker/HBK; some crazy ass Ladder match with callbacks to MITB/TLC II; etc. I really do have to comeback to my 30 Years countdown btw, just not been in the spirit of it lately.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

A TLC tag match would be :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> It had a Piper's Pit already, twice before. None of them turned to be properly amazing moments
> 
> That being said, I do hope the WWE does a callback-fest at WM 30 for obvious reasons. Cody/Goldust as the opener in callback to Bret/Owen; Taker killing himself in a callback to Taker/HBK; some crazy ass Ladder match with callbacks to MITB/TLC II; etc. I really do have to comeback to my 30 Years countdown btw, just not been in the spirit of it lately.


Wasn't the last Piper's Pit like WM21? Maybe I'm drawing a blank. 

I'm all for Cody/Goldust opening the show. I wonder if tonight is when Goldust turns?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Made a list of Hart matches a while ago:



> Hart Foundation vs. The Islanders - March 1987 | [Pt. 2]
> Bret Hart vs. Randy Savage - SNME Nov 1987
> Hart Foundation vs. Demolition [2 out of 3 falls match] - Summerslam 1990 | [Pt. 2]
> Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - Summerslam 1991
> ...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FLUX said:


> CODY doesn't interest me whatsoever



Are you one of the Smarkbusters? If not you should be on their show! 


I like the idea of Cody v Goldust with Dusty as the ref.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was actually really looking forward to WM30, im not so sure i am now.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I cant see it being worse than 27&29 TBH, a confirmation of Bryan,Sheamus, Punk, Cena, Batista, BORK, HHH, and Taker means it might be one of the most stacked shows ever

Notice how I left Orton off the list


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Are you one of the Smarkbusters? If not you should be on their show!
> 
> 
> I like the idea of Cody v Goldust with Dusty as the ref.


I don't quite get that reference but whatever :draper2

I'm just ot a fan of Cody. He offers very little to me other than a fantastic moonsault press. Meanwhile Goldust is one of the best workers on the roster and we all know the end game the for WWE pushing him is to have him lose to Cody and fall back to irrelevance or jobbing. I don't see where Cody can go following the feud that will interest me. No potential matches he could have grips me and I can't exactly see them giving him another somewhat dynamic gimmick like his Undashing days. So all he'll be, IMO, is the son of a son of a plumber that does a fantastic moonsault press and has a lisp.

Hence why I don't want Cody and Goldy to split and hence why if they do, I want Goldust to win. BUT HE WON'T.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stacked? Damn fucking right, Quality? I'm dubious atm. If Brock/Taker happens, that is the only match atm i'm fully invested in.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Made a list of Hart matches a while ago:


One of my favorite ever matches is the RAW street fight between Bret and Austin from April 97 I believe where Bret tweaks his ankle and gets the ever loving shit kicked out of him after HBK runs off the Hart Foundation.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd be invested in everything par the Orton/Tista match 

I'll be clinging on to my hope of a Punk or Bryan rumble win until both are eliminated tonight though


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What do reckon to Brock/Show tonight then? Brock is Brock of course, but i got no faith in Show, i just can't.


----------



## P5YC40D3L1C (Jun 19, 2012)

They should make a heel stable with the most recent failed WWE champions. Miz leading Del Rio, Sheamus, and let's just throw RVD in there.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FLUX said:


> I don't quite get that reference but whatever :draper2


There is a youtube channel that talks wrestling and they make fun of Cody Rhodes and this forum a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's going to rule because BROCK is gonna BROCK.

Big Show & Brock have great chemistry while Brock is better than ever.

Give it 10 minutes and let Brock do some crazy shit. BOOM.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> What do reckon to Brock/Show tonight then? Brock is Brock of course, but i got no faith in Show, i just can't.


I'm hoping BROCK can carry it.

Looking forward to that and Orton/Cena (mainly to see Orton retain and go on to defend against BORK :mark.

With the recent Sheamus/Bryan rumors, I'm even more hopeful about Mania 30. That'll be four matches with potential plus Cena takes a backseat after being in the main event matches for almost a decade. If Brock is going to job at Mania, I'd rather he loses to Taker than anyone else, specially someone who is much smaller like Bryan. They can do the match later this year or even next year. But I really have no concerns as long as they give me BORK vs Randy next month.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> One of my favorite ever matches is the RAW street fight between Bret and Austin from April 97 I believe where Bret tweaks his ankle and gets the ever loving shit kicked out of him after HBK runs off the Hart Foundation.


Glad you bought that up (Y). 

xqzzei

Bret/Austin = :mark: And the Hart Foundation stable in 1997 = :homer


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> What do reckon to Brock/Show tonight then? Brock is Brock of course, but i got no faith in Show, i just can't.


I think it will be good, maybe not great but good. Honestly most matches you can either pinpoint before it airs with a thought in your mind over whether it will be good or bad, but this is fucking unpredictable, could be a DUD or a ****+ match. Its Brock so I would put money on the latter


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I really don't see anyone besides Batista winning the rumble tonight..he always seemed like the type of guy that needs the world title attention on him, wouldn't be surprised if he returned to WWE only because he was promised the rumble win and WM Main event.

so, here's hoping he botches his way out of the rumble


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This Bret Hart talk is nauseating 

ehh I'm a rhodes guy kinda ? ( nah I like him) but I could care less about goldust/rhodes. Ive seen it for a couple weeks now but for me the rhodes/goldust lust has worn off for me


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm a big Rhodes fan, the guy can work plus has some good charisma. However its time for him to become a singles guy imo, expecting them to drop the titles on the pre show tonight and then eliminate each other from the rumble, leading to the match at mania. 

Expecting Goldust to retire after mania makes sense right?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> I don't quite get that reference but whatever :draper2
> 
> I'm just ot a fan of Cody. He offers very little to me other than a fantastic moonsault press. Meanwhile Goldust is one of the best workers on the roster and we all know the end game the for WWE pushing him is to have him lose to Cody and fall back to irrelevance or jobbing. I don't see where Cody can go following the feud that will interest me. No potential matches he could have grips me and I can't exactly see them giving him another somewhat dynamic gimmick like his Undashing days. So all he'll be, IMO, is the son of a son of a plumber that does a fantastic moonsault press and has a lisp.
> 
> Hence why I don't want Cody and Goldy to split and hence why if they do, I want Goldust to win. BUT HE WON'T.



See, that's just sad. Faith in WWE creative is so low that you don't even want to see a dream match because you KNOW WWE will drop the ball with Goldust afterwards. And you know what? I really can't blame you, not one iota.

If I was booking it, I would have Cody slowly start to become jealous of the cheers/pops and attention his brother is receiving. They keep winning matches as a team but Cody starts not celebrating with Dustin after the wins. Finally, let's say at Elimination Chamber in a match vs The Real Americans or something, Cody tags in when Goldust isn't looking and tries to win the match on his own, and ends up losing it for the both of them. Afterwards, Cody becomes enraged and attacks Dustin, viciously beating him. This leads to Dusty running out to try and stop Cody from beating on Dustin, and Cody ends up hitting Dusty too. Next night on Raw Cody comes out and cuts a great heel promo about how he's tired of always being the good son yet never getting the love and attention that his brother Dustin has always gotten, despite the fact that Dustin was a world class fuck up. Again Dusty comes out to try and straighten Cody out, but Cody becomes incensed and shoves his father down. Now Dustin has to come out to save his father, Cody slinks away like the good cowardly heel, and Dustin cuts a promo and sets up the match at WM 30. Cody dominates 65% of the match, Dustin fires up a great come back and has Cody in a position about to be pinned, but Cody cheats and by holding the ropes or tights or something and catches Dustin with the roll up for the win.

Afterwards, they can have a cage match or something at Extreme Rules. Cody can continue on as an upper mid card heel, maybe as the unified IC/US title champ after a program with Langston, Ziggler, or someone. Dustin can continue on as a mid card face helping the up and coming heels like Ambrose, Cesaro, or Damien Sandow until he's ready to retire for good.

How is this so hard WWE? How?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cody Rhodes on his own bores me to tears TBH, unless he's paired with a GOAT like Rey.

Just watched Batista/Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXIII once again for like the seventh time and nothing has changed for me. This match rules and it rules fucking HARD, with Batista stepping it up and Taker giving a showing as to why he's one of the greatest to ever do it. What Taker does, moving from sequence to sequence to keep the crowd invested is quite fantastic, with Batista playing his role as the semi-heel well. 

Batista knows how to get motivated for a big time match, it's just what he does. Put him in there with Brock, Taker, Bryan, Punk, HHH, Sheamus, Cena, etc.. & we get a great Mania match. Put him in there with Orton (not shitting on Orton here, just pointing out that they have absolute SHIT chemistry together) and I'm not so confident .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Batista have some good chemistry actually. Their 2009 matches were not great but they got too little time and Batista got injured, cutting it short. Armageddon 08 and their 04/05 matches, on the other hand, are fun. If Batista doesn't have ring rust and Orton shows up motivated, I'm sure they can have a good match.

And I kinda agree on Cody. There's just something about him that's a little bland and as a singles guy, I struggle to care for him. He has some charisma, but it's so underwhelming when you realize he's Dusty's son and Dustin's brother.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> See, that's just sad. Faith in WWE creative is so low that you don't even want to see a dream match because you KNOW WWE will drop the ball with Goldust afterwards. And you know what? I really can't blame you, not one iota.
> 
> If I was booking it, I would have Cody slowly start to become jealous of the cheers/pops and attention his brother is receiving. They keep winning matches as a team but Cody starts not celebrating with Dustin after the wins. Finally, let's say at Elimination Chamber in a match vs The Real Americans or something, Cody tags in when Goldust isn't looking and tries to win the match on his own, and ends up losing it for the both of them. Afterwards, Cody becomes enraged and attacks Dustin, viciously beating him. This leads to Dusty running out to try and stop Cody from beating on Dustin, and Cody ends up hitting Dusty too. Next night on Raw Cody comes out and cuts a great heel promo about how he's tired of always being the good son yet never getting the love and attention that his brother Dustin has always gotten, despite the fact that Dustin was a world class fuck up. Again Dusty comes out to try and straighten Cody out, but Cody becomes incensed and shoves his father down. Now Dustin has to come out to save his father, Cody slinks away like the good cowardly heel, and Dustin cuts a promo and sets up the match at WM 30. Cody dominates 65% of the match, Dustin fires up a great come back and has Cody in a position about to be pinned, but Cody cheats and by holding the ropes or tights or something and catches Dustin with the roll up for the win.
> 
> ...



I like this idea, but isn't it better for Cody to stay a face for a while? he has been a heel for the majority of his career..I don't honestly know how I would do it,but I may turn Goldust heel and keep Cody as face, that way Cody can be move up the ladder more and Goldust would be an interesting heel, a few segments with the Wyatts would be gold


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

etrbaby said:


> I really don't see anyone besides Batista winning the rumble tonight..he always seemed like the type of guy that needs the world title attention on him, wouldn't be surprised if he returned to WWE only because he was promised the rumble win and WM Main event.


Yikes. Sadly, you might be right. 

Batista just bores me as a face. As a badass heel sure. But nothing about him says root for me. Maybe he will turn soon?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He's vanilla, nothing stands out about the guy in his personality enough for me to become invested in whatever it is that he does, stuff with his brother and his father was fantastic but that's more of an example of taking a real life issue and playing it out on TV to gather emotions from the crowd rather than the program working because Cody is interesting.

The Armageddon 2008 match is coming up on this Batista DVD, so I'll be able to get another look at it today, but I can remember it being one of those matches that tell two stories with half of it being exciting and the other half being the most dull thing ever. Anything they did together pre-2008 doesn't matter for Orton though as he's essentially a completely different character and worker then he was in the Legend Killer days. If BENOIT were to become resurrected for a series with Orton in 2014 I'm not even sure how they'd fare TBH .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> This Bret Hart talk is nauseating


Close your eyes


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> The Armageddon 2008 match is coming up on this Batista DVD, so I'll be able to get another look at it today, but I can remember it being one of those matches that tell two stories with half of it being exciting and the other half being the most dull thing ever. Anything they did together pre-2008 doesn't matter for Orton though as he's essentially a completely different character and worker then he was in the Legend Killer days. If BENOIT were to become resurrected for a series with Orton in 2014 I'm not even sure how they'd fare TBH .


True, but you take into account that Batista was green as fuck in the 04-05 days and the two cancel each other out. 

As for BENOIT RESURRECTED, I'm sure Orton would have a match with him better than the Bryan one last month because if he didn't step up and deliver, Benoit would just chop his chest until it'd look like cooked steak.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm honestly fine with Orton/Batista, as long as its NOT for the title. Seriously hoping Cena wins as I'd rather him headline than Orton


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the date of this?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> I'm honestly fine with Orton/Batista, as long as its NOT for the title. Seriously hoping Cena wins as I'd rather him headline than Orton




I hope so too, but Orton is probably retaining. Someone is gonna interfere I just know it. I SENSE it. How Orton goes over Lesnar at EC? No earthly idea. If they even do that, I still don't know what the actual chamber match would be.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> I'm honestly fine with Orton/Batista, as long as its NOT for the title. Seriously hoping Cena wins as I'd rather him headline than Orton


So what happens? Cena vs Bryan? Nah, fuck that. People complain about rematches all the time but are perfectly fine with that? It's one thing for Orton to retain tonight and lose to Brock at EC leading to Brock vs Bryan, but CENA again? No thanks.

The dirtsheet rumors are laying out the perfect script, hope WWE follow through with it all. Either way, so excited for the Rumble tonight.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena>Orton 

At least with Cena you can guarantee a somewhat decent match as he always seems to deliver at mania par vs JBL and vs the Rock WM 29. Him vs Bryan, although its not what I would like, would be SOO much better than Orton and Batista putting us to sleep


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Lets predict the star ratings for the WM matches that haven't even been announced yet shall we?
> 
> Lesnar V Undertaker ****1/2
> Orton V Batista ***1/2
> ...


Agree with pretty much everything except Orton/Tista, **1/2.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't believe I'm rooting for :cena3 to win tonight but I am. I fully expect Randall to retain though.

If :cena4 wins maybe we can get :brock :cena5 at EC with :brock winning the title?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Lesnar/Undertaker will be MOTN if it happens at WM. Don't understand why people would be against that at all. They were SOOOOO for this for WM 27 or 28, but now all of a sudden fuck that match? Lol 

Kayfabe other then Cena no one is a bigger threat to Taker then Brock. So I'm all for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Cena>Orton
> 
> At least with Cena you can guarantee a *somewhat decent match as he always seems to deliver at mania* par vs JBL and vs the Rock WM 29. Him vs Bryan, although its not what I would like, would be SOO much better than Orton and Batista putting us to sleep


So has Orton, except WM25 and maybe 26. Oh and you completely forgot WM27, one of the worst main events in WM history. (granted, it was MIZ but Cena's performance was no better)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Anyone know the date of this?


:lmao That was gold


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

IIRC :taker never beat :brock so there is a built in storyline there. Taker has done it all at Mania except take down the beast.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> So has Orton, except WM25 and maybe 26. Oh and you completely forgot WM27, one of the worst main events in WM history. (granted, it was MIZ but Cena's performance was no better)


Good point

WM 20 tag: Not a fan

vs taker: :mark:

World title triple threat: Decent 

MITB: :mark: 

WWE title triple threat: Decent 

vs HHH: Sucks

WM 26 legacy triple threat: hate it

vs Punk: not a fan

vs Kane: okay, prefer the ER match though

Shield tag: pretty good

Oh god that miz match fpalm


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The reaction from :hbk3 when Rocky does his Bret impression is priceless. 

I miss corporate Rock.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena's Mania track record kinda sucks too considering all the opportunities he was given. I think I'll take Mania Orton over Mania Cena, but neither of them compare to Mania unk4

I think I'm more excited for Summerslam than WM. Imagine a SS card consisting of Punk/Batista (already rumored), Bryan/HHH for the title, and Cena/Lesnar II.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The 2 PPVs after Mania are magically in Seattle and Chicago? Hmmmm. :bryan3 unk5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mania unk3 has never had a bad opponent, though.

He's either been put in MITB matches and never had to face somebody like THE MIKE or an afterthought triple threat with Rhodes and DiBiase Jr. Just look at his non-MITB matches: Mysterio, Orton, Jericho and UNDERTAKER. If he can't deliver with that, then I don't know who can help him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk's Mania track is some consistent shit. MITB 23, MITB 24, MITB 25, vs Rey, vs Orton, vs Jericho, vs Taker. Goddamn. The worst of all those matches (vs Rey) is still damn good... for 5 MINUTES. That should equal amazing in that department. Definitely one of the better told stories of WM 26.

Though the best Mania track in history is Ziggler's :troll


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

unk6 :jericho at WM 28 keeps holding up. I just love it.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just watched the Brock/Show match from Survivor Series 2002 to get myself hyped for their match tonight. Short but fun match with the story going into Brock's injured ribs and whether or not he could pick up Big Show. I find it interesting that their feud from 2002-2003 was Brock being the face and Show being the heel and tonight the role's are reversed. Should be a good match and maybe it could steal the show.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mania Punk is pretty damn great.

MITB 1 ****
MITB II ****
MITB III ***3/4
V Mysterio ***1/4
V Orton ***1/2
V Jericho ****1/4
V Undertaker ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Regarding Brock/Taker, i said this in the Streak Thread:

*In terms of Brock/Taker, it easier to get around the repetition. Taker vs. Lesnar would be a totally different beast, because both have changed so much since 2002/2003 - just like Taker vs. Michaels in 2009 had both men in vastly different places than they were in 1997/1998. We're talking over a decade in both cases. Plus the fact neither match had happened at WrestleMania before.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If workers have good chemistry then they can make every match seem different and not repetitive 

HBK/Taker is a great example


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Though you know what is better than WrestleMania Punk?

SUMMERSLAM BROCK LESNAR:

vs Rock: ****1/2
vs Angle: ****1/2
vs HHH: ***3/4
vs Punk: ****3/4

Not even someone like WM Taker can have the previlege of that resume.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bret Hart at Summerslam was pretty awesome....

89 vs Arn & Tully 
90 vs Demoltion
91 vs Perfect
92 vs Davey
94 vs Owen
97 vs Taker


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Though you know what is better than WrestleMania Punk?
> 
> SUMMERSLAM BROCK LESNAR:
> 
> ...


Brock is Brock though, the phrase "could have a match with a broomstick" is so overused, but in Brock's case, it's actually true. I'd rather watch Brock savage a broomstick and do his cocky heel act with that devilish smirk than watch a Kofi Kingston or Miz match. Dead serious. Hell, I'd probably rather watch Brock destroy a broomstick than watch a Triple H match a this point.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Hell, I'd probably rather watch Brock destroy a broomstick than watch a Triple H match a this point.


I fully endorse and support that one.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd like to see Brock wrestle my annoying co worker who rips on wrestling all the time. He could really use an F5.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Some people on here (not in this thread) don't realize how great Brock is in the ring. I consider him top 10 ALL time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So I guess Goldberg is below the level of a broomstick. I can dig that.

Summerslam and Bret Hart go together. Not even Brock can take that away from the true GOAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Phew, thought my Chris Benoit DVD was fucked as my PC couldn't play it. Works on my PS3. *sigh* guess I really do need a new DVD drive in my computer. Takes ages to load certain discs, sometimes not at all, and I have to PUNCH IT (seriously) to get it to open up most of the time. 

So the RR is tonight and I'm not really excited. Last couple of RR events absolutely fucking SUCKING haven't helped. I don't want to expect anything to be good because I don't wanna be disappointed. That being said I can't really think anything will be good outside of (hopefully) Brock/Show and maybe the RR match (and if the so called rumoured winner is true then that certainly ain't gonna help shit). Orton/Cena has about a billion to 1 chance of being anything more than pure shite. Bryan is great but a match against Bray isn't exactly screaming "could be a fucking classic". Fuck me that's the entire card? Oh god I hope they don't give Cena/Orton too much time. Urgh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Some people on here (not in this thread) don't realize how great Brock is in the ring. I consider him top 10 ALL time.


Agreed. He obviously can't talk and lacks charisma but the guy can flat go in the ring. 

If you look at all the great matches he has had in the small amount of time he has had them it's pretty remarkable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Some people on here (not in this thread) don't realize how great Brock is in the ring. I consider him top 10 ALL time.



I always have to consider longevity and the ability to be an effective face and heel when making a list of the greatest wrestlers. There is no way I could put Brock in my top 10 all time because he's had such a short career and he's only effective as a heel. That said, if we are going off of just how good someone was at their peak, Brock would have to a top 5 heel worker all time in my book. There have been so many great heels in this business, but very few have ever reached the level that Lesnar is currently at. He's mastered how to pace a match, how it should be structured, selling/bumping for the face while still keeping himself strong, and most important, not wasting any punches or moves. Everything Brock does in the ring has purpose, and he's gotten to the level where he could win every single match from now on and still make his opponent in the process. Daniel Bryan doesn't need to beat Lesnar, just getting a few near falls/tap outs and building the match properly will get Bryan over more than a win over Orton, and that's the truth.

I think that's the best part about Brock's return match vs Cena at ER. It had been AGES since the fans had seen such a distilled, evil heel like that. I can't help but think want those parents/Cena fan boys sitting in the front row must have thought seeing Brock out there doing his thing. He was literally the Beast Incarnate that night. As much as I hated the finish (and that's a lot, it's what keeps me from giving it the full 5) I don't think it really hurt Brock as much as people think, because he completely established himself as the top dog that night. Cena might have won, but it was a fluke, Brock had spent the previous 20 minutes proving that the "Face of the WWE" just wasn't in his class.

Now that I've said it, I need to contemplate what other wrestlers would make my list for favorite heel workers:

1. Eddie Guerrero, 1997, 2005
2. Vader
3. Steve Austin in 1994, 2001
4. Fit Finlay
5. Brock Lesnar

Next Up: Ted DiBiase, Terry Funk, Rick Rude, Randy Savage, Mark Henry and Ric Flair (he's the greatest of all time but just not a personal favorite)

I think that would be my top 5 for favorite heel workers.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I see what you are saying about longevity and not to compare Brock to the Beatles but the Beatles released all of their albums in a 7 year span (1963-1970) so you can make a case that longevity isn't as important as quality.


I can't say enough good things about :cena5 :brock from ER. Great match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to buy the Benoit DVD. Hopefully by the time I start collecting (wont be until another 5 or so years), I can find it cheap.



Clint Eastwood said:


> I fully endorse and support that one.


Ew, that pink sucks. I don't care if you're repping Bret, that shit is eye-poison. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Summerslam and Bret Hart go together. Not even Brock can take that away from the true GOAT.


Bret, Brock and Orton are three names for SUMMERSLAM competitors who have a great history there. Who else is up there besides Undertaker? (he was in every one of them from 92 I think up until 05 and the last one in 08)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*ROYAL RUMBLE MADNESS 8*D

1992 Rumble - ****1/2
2009 Rumble - ****1/2
2011 Rumble - ***1/2
2010 Rumble - ***3/4
2012 Rumble - ***

Trips/Foley (Street Fight) - *****
Hardyz/Dudleyz (Table Match) - ***3/4
Cena/Umaga (LMS) - ****3/4*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I need to buy the Benoit DVD. Hopefully by the time I start collecting (wont be until another 5 or so years), I can find it cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You don't own the Benoit DVD??? You've atleast seen the documentary, right?

I got so lucky, I found it randomly used on Amazon last year for $17, that's a freaking steal. I've seen it go for as high as $65. The bad thing is I accidently scratched the first disc, so now I can't play the Great Sasuke match in English, only in Japanese or with Benoit/Malenko on commentary. If you haven't seen the Super J match with Sasuke (not just you, anyone) stop what you're doing and check that shit out. That match is just phenomenal. It might just be Benoits finest singles match, although the 1996 Super Juniors match with Eddie and the Ladder Match with Jericho are right there as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got the Benoit DVD was utter dirt cheap since I bought it while he was still alive .

Edit: I SEE YOU TEXAN. I FUCKING SEE YOU.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes, I've already seen the doc and most of the matches on it. In fact, I rewatched the documentary just a couple of days ago. It's wonderful and goes through his career pretty well even though I wish it was a bit more in-depth about some portions of his career. Sucks how things ended, but I'm happy for him because he achieved his dream before his death.

Seen the Sasuke match too, absolutely phenomenal but wasn't quite as fun with Cole/Tazz doing the commentary. The ripped version I downloaded only gives that option, so I wont hear Benoit himself doing commentary.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yes, I've already seen the doc and most of the matches on it. In fact, I rewatched the documentary just a couple of days ago. It's wonderful and goes through his career pretty well even though I wish it was a bit more in-depth about some portions of his career. Sucks how things ended, but I'm happy for him because he achieved his dream before his death.
> 
> Seen the Sasuke match too, absolutely phenomenal but wasn't quite as fun with Cole/Tazz doing the commentary. The ripped version I downloaded only gives that option, so I wont hear Benoit himself doing commentary.



I'm loving your Benoit uploads on Youtube, watching Brock/Benoit for the 209384803 time right now. One of my favorite go-to matches when nothing else sparks my interest. I'm glad you added the interview + segment before hand, I love the whole betting scene.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Ew, that pink sucks. I don't care if you're repping Bret, that shit is eye-poison.


:lol Just thought id try it out


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lolz.



Cactus Jack said:


> I'm loving your Benoit uploads on Youtube, watching Brock/Benoit for the 209384803 time right now. One of my favorite go-to matches when nothing else sparks my interest. I'm glad you added the interview + segment before hand, I love the whole betting scene.


It's my pleasure. Done uploading everything from 2004 that Cal posted and all of them got up except the Jericho/Orton match which got blocked.

I like that betting scene too, specially when A-Train bets on Benoit. And one of the funniest parts of the pre-match promo is when Benoit says "yo". That was so out of character and unfitting for a guy like him. :lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Catched up a Royal rumble 2009 replay on wrestlingtv::

Swagger/Hardy- ***1/4
Beth/Melina- **
Cena/JBL- **1/2
Edge/J. Hardy- ***3/4
Rumble Match- **


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Okay so I'm basically on a crusade to watch as much stuff as possible featuring a list of workers I've created. But this list isn't any list - It's a list of workers who I'm undecided upon. By that I could mean either everybody thinks they are fantastic but I just don't see it, everybody thinks they're sucky and I love them and maybe I need to take a further look in to them or in most cases, I haven't seen enough of the worker to properly form an opinion.

I put the list in to a random generator and the first name that popped out was an example of the latter - *OWEN HART*. Now I've seen the MUST SEE stuff - vs. Bret @ WM 10 and the cage match, vs. Austin at Summerslam, vs. Bulldog and ofcourse the HBK/Austin tag w/ Bulldog. But other than the Canadian Stampede match, that is quite literally ALL I have seen from Owen. So can anybody offer some suggestions so I can properly formulate an opinion on him, please.

FWIW I'll be coming back and asking you guys for suggestions and opinions, the list is pretty big 

edit: Whyats your YT, C2D? Any access to Benoit is great access


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I miss when they'd build a show around a main event. The Brock/Benoit match had guys betting on the outcome throughout the night, Flair/HHH was announced in like the first segment I think, with some backstage segments with Flair and HHH, and other people talking to Flair about it, and I think they even had old clips of Flair and shit showing who he used to be in his prime etc. Made everything seem so much more important, and was nice to have a match feel genuinely important without being on PPV. Austin/McMahon back in the day was the same, built up throughout the night with segments and interviews/promos etc. These days it's just "hey the main event tonight is some giant mulit-man match with no consequences in the slightest! yey!!!".

Edit: ** for the 09 RR match? LOL. I'd go ****1/2 for it, my second favourite Rumble match ever.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**** for the 2009 Rumble match? It's one of the worst ever, I don't know how it can receive more than a *** rating


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> Okay so I'm basically on a crusade to watch as much stuff as possible featuring a list of workers I've created. But this list isn't any list - It's a list of workers who I'm undecided upon. By that I could mean either everybody thinks they are fantastic but I just don't see it, everybody thinks they're sucky and I love them and maybe I need to take a further look in to them or in most cases, I haven't seen enough of the worker to properly form an opinion.
> 
> I put the list in to a random generator and the first name that popped out was an example of the latter - *OWEN HART*. Now I've seen the MUST SEE stuff - vs. Bret @ WM 10 and the cage match, vs. Austin at Summerslam, vs. Bulldog and ofcourse the HBK/Austin tag w/ Bulldog. But other than the Canadian Stampede match, that is quite literally ALL I have seen from Owen. So can anybody offer some suggestions so I can properly formulate an opinion on him, please.
> 
> ...


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

This thread got 9 pages while I was asleep? :side:

Oh, and RUMBLE today :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What the fuck was possibly bad about the 09 rumble? A couple of surprise entrances, a TON of talent, some cool RR moments and some of the best false eliminations EVER.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I really liked the 09 Rumble too. Probably the last great one IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The 2009 Rumble rules. Not just because Orton wins it, but because it's a lot of fun throughout. 



FLUX said:


> edit: Whyats your YT, C2D? Any access to Benoit is great access


I have a few of those for wrestling uploads, mainly Raw/SD from 2003-2006. Also got many full shows from 05/06.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJeW_8HmnaKYBngZ8oc4B9A
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDZ5kWrHZONdal92RMqIygQ

And here I was uploading Raw/SD from 2006 until I got a strike midway through February: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjVjZF0lsSrFsJbsfykernA



King Cal said:


> These days it's just "hey the main event tonight is some giant mulit-man match with no consequences in the slightest! yey!!!".


Or "John Cena is gonna show up late to his job. Keep your eyes on the main door backstage".


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Srdjan, I'd beg to differ, considering stuff like Finlay & Goldust wars, KANE, Santino breaking the least time ever record, the original badass spot that saves a guy from elimination (Rey Mysterio walking on other guys' backs like rocks from a platforming game), Rob Van Dam's surprise entrance, Kozlov going Diesel, the star-power it had, some references to other feuds, and the pretty good finish with Legacy ganging up on HHH. Have it at ***3/4, and it may not one of the best Rumbles ever imo, but it sure ain't one of the worst either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Okay so I'm basically on a crusade to watch as much stuff as possible featuring a list of workers I've created. But this list isn't any list - It's a list of workers who I'm undecided upon. By that I could mean either everybody thinks they are fantastic but I just don't see it, everybody thinks they're sucky and I love them and maybe I need to take a further look in to them or in most cases, I haven't seen enough of the worker to properly form an opinion.
> 
> I put the list in to a random generator and the first name that popped out was an example of the latter - *OWEN HART*. Now I've seen the MUST SEE stuff - vs. Bret @ WM 10 and the cage match, vs. Austin at Summerslam, vs. Bulldog and ofcourse the HBK/Austin tag w/ Bulldog. But other than the Canadian Stampede match, that is quite literally ALL I have seen from Owen. So can anybody offer some suggestions so I can properly formulate an opinion on him, please.
> 
> ...





You need to watch Owen/Vader from ONO. Absolutely phenomenal, outside of the matches you listed it's easily my favorite Owen match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Or "John Cena is gonna show up late to his job. Keep your eyes on the main door backstage".


Well the main event WAS a Randy Orton match. I know I'd rather watch the door... .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Orton/HHH confrontation is the main facctor. Since Orton entered there was no doubt that he will win, the RVd return is kinda the only good part of this match. To much laying around, and there too many times too many people in the ring. This just didn't work out for me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Too many people in the ring? That's a COMPLAINT FOR A RR MATCH? The entire match is designed around THIRTY FUCKING PEOPLE BEING INVOLVED :lmao.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just had to go back and watch the Cena and Orton confrontation from 2011. :lmao 

The crowd not giving a shit about Cena vs. Orton:
Then.
Now.
Forever. :cena4

(I'm a fan of both BTW )


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Well the main event WAS a Randy Orton match. I know I'd rather watch the door... .


You're just gonna ignore that the worst part of it was him wrestling KOFI KINGSTON? 

C'mon, KOFI in a Raw main event sounds unappealing to the highest degree. I just wanted Orton to squash him and the incompetent bastards couldn't even give us that. :no:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah but they pulled the idea of a ring full of people way better in the 90's, in the 09 one it was really awful. Really surprised that this Rumble match receives so much love, maybe I'm the weird one


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah lol, you are definitely the weird one . I know most people won't like it as much as me, but thinking it's bad is like thinking the first HIAC is bad .

Christ I actually forgot Kofi was Orton's opponent for that Raw main event :lmao. I skipped the entire thing because... well I don't care about Orton, so I didn't even notice :lmao.

In the mood for watching the 04 rumble match now after watching the Benoit doc .


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Cena/Umaga (LMS) - ****3/4[/B]


watched this for the first time a couple days ago. **** from me.

watched Benoit vs Angle from 03 Rumble. i know how people love that match around here. ****1/2!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually Angle/Benoit gets more bad rep in these streets than a NY hooker gets dick 

I used to hate it myself too, now I think it still is very flawed, but it's just superb fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LEAVE THE HOOKERS ALONE!!!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Actually Angle/Benoit gets more bad rep in these streets than a NY hooker gets dick
> 
> I used to hate it myself too, now I think it still is very flawed, but it's just superb fun.


:ziggler2 will you ever admit you like the match :lmao so we can end this running gag


Yea I love the 2009 rumble match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't seen these matches online, found them out just whilst looking for a Owen Hart match. 

Owen Hart vs. Pegasus Kid (Handheld Footage, April 1991)
Davey Boy Smith vs. Genichiro Tenryu (Handheld, 9/18/91) 
Davey Boy Smith vs. Dustin Rhodes (5/14/90) 

Also Smith vs Kawada from Japan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have already admitted it - by saying it's superb fun means I hated it? I kinda don't think so, Skins :kobe


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

But you said it w/ a catch (it being flawed) one day you will admit it I KNOW IT !

What is the best 3 on 3 rhodes bro vs. shield match ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah it IS flawed, but then again, isn't even stuff like Top Gear and The Big Bang Theory flawed too? :shaq2

The best 3-on-3 Rhodes/Shield match? The rematch w/Bryan on Rhodes' side, on Smackdown.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And Big Bang Theory sucks. What's your point?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea never seen Top Gun and BBT is horrid, lol I dont get your point


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah no, Top *Gear*, not Top Gun, and I love TBBT so fuck you :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My parents love TBBT. Just thought I'd share that with you .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, let's try again: stuff like The Simp-oh wait, modern Simpsons sucks 

Take 3: isn't stuff like Futurama and How I Met Your Mother flawed? :shaq2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How I Met Your Mother? :lmao still no better. Also, my parents like it too :lmao.

Gonna go watch the 04 rumble match for funsies.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Everything's flawed, except Breaking bad of course 

Pretty pumped for the Rumble, praying that Vinnie isn't stupid enough to have Dave win


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

YES, Breaking Bad! (Is there a Pinkman smiley?)

TAKE 4, ACTION: Isn't stuff like *BREAKING BAD* flawed?! :shaq2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wire is not flawed. Just like Finlay is flawless.

Owen Hart right now is killing it in my 1997 watch. He and Bulldog made a terrific tag team. Check out Owen/Mankind from 1/6/97, whoever it was that didn't watch much Owen. I also really liked the OTHER Owen/Bulldog match from March that year that never gets talked about. Of course, Owen in Japan is great. Owen in general is great. Now he is flawless. Just like Finlay and The Wire.

:lmao at Cal's Simpsons reference in that rant thread about Clique.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Wire is not flawed.





SMITTY said:


> Everything's flawed, except Breaking bad of course
> 
> Pretty pumped for the Rumble, praying that Vinnie isn't stupid enough to have Dave win


:thumb:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finlay IS flawed too - he hasn't gotten himself much charisma, does he? :kobe

Well, it's not like he needed it either (needed it as much as Benoit or Bret), just pointing out to piss y'all off. Also, William Regal is flawed too - he has a drugs past! MUAHAHAHAAAHHH! 8*D

Loki should take hints from me on how to be a good troll :troll


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Wire is not flawed. Just like Finlay is flawless.
> 
> Owen Hart right now is killing it in my 1997 watch. He and Bulldog made a terrific tag team. Check out Owen/Mankind from 1/6/97, whoever it was that didn't watch much Owen. I also really liked the OTHER Owen/Bulldog match from March that year that never gets talked about. Of course, Owen in Japan is great. Owen in general is great. Now he is flawless. Just like Finlay and The Wire.
> 
> :lmao at Cal's Simpsons reference in that rant thread about Clique.




Lol I was just gonna say that, the only show that has ZERO flaws is The Wire. If we were giving TV show's star ratings, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad would get ****3/4 but the Wire is the only ***** show ever made, in my humble opinion. Calling it a TV show is almost doing it a disservice, it's modern day Charles Dickens taking place on the streets of the U.S.A. I don't know if people that don't live in American can appreciate it because their countries probably aren't as fucked as ours when it comes to how we treat citizens of the inner cities, but man, that show just completely blew me away when I finished the 5th and final season.

P.S. ATF- Who the hell watches Sit-Coms these days? Big Bang Theory? How I Met Your Mother? That's some shit I'd find on my Mom's DVR :lmao

Back to wrasslin'. Is anyone else as big a fan of Vader/Owen ONO as I am? I feel like it's a forgotten classic, Vader's best singles match in the WWE aside from Summerslam 1996.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finlay doesn't have much charisma? Someone mentioned that Lesnar lacks it too. The fuck do you people consider charisma?


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

King Cal said:


> Finlay doesn't have much charisma? Someone mentioned that Lesnar lacks it too. The fuck do you people consider charisma?


People think mic skills = charisma and they you can't possibly be charismatic in the ring. Finlay isn't not very charismatic to me, tho.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Lol I was just gonna say that, the only show that has ZERO flaws is The Wire. If we were giving TV show's star ratings, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad would get ****3/4 but the Wire is the only ***** show ever made, in my humble opinion. Calling it a TV show is almost doing it a disservice, it's modern day Charles Dickens taking place on the streets of the U.S.A. I don't know if people that don't live in American can appreciate it because their countries probably aren't as fucked as ours when it comes to how we treat citizens of the inner cities, but man, that show just completely blew me away when I finished the 5th and final season.


rewatching season 5 now on my second watch of the entire series. that season isn't flawless.

to wrestling:


> Finlay doesn't have much charisma? Someone mentioned that Lesnar lacks it too. The fuck do you people consider charisma?


totally agree. especially the lesnar part. he oozes charisma in the ring. totally captivating.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finlay is not very charismatic but he has just about enough to get it done in the ring.

And am I the only one here who *never* watches anything on TV? :lol Occasionally when it's World Cup/Euro Cup/Champions League season, I watch the matches but otherwise, no.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with Lesnar being charismatic, but I didn't mention him did I? I never really thought Finlay was that much charismatic either myself. His charisma of sorts was very Benoit'ish in that his actions speaked louder than words. And before you mention it, no, I don't think mic skills = charisma. Otherwise, names like Curt Hennig or the aforementioned Lesnar would have bad charisma. Or good mic skills at that.

Also Cactus, you should be lucky you don't live in times where you wanna watch something on TV since it's the only decent thing you can do at a certain moment and what's airing are sitcoms and nothing else of much interest. I don't know, I'm a varied TV watcher. Sometimes, Castle is airing and I watch it, others I watch old Simpsons, others I just happen to watch TBBT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Finlay doesn't have much charisma? Someone mentioned that Lesnar lacks it too. The fuck do you people consider charisma?



Ditto. Do people seriously not understand that having charisma and being able to talk aren't the same thing? Benoit wasn't a great talker, but look at the connection he had with fans, his no nonsense demeanor was captivating, the guy had loads of charisma. Finlay and Lesnar are in the same boat. And you know what? Finlay and Lesnar NOT talking a lot and cutting promos actually works better for their characters. What the fuck do you want to hear Lesnar and Finlay say? They are just here to fight and destroy. There is no other reason behind their actions, no explanation is necessary. They just want to fuck people up, and that's good enough for me.

Watch Lesnar in the match he just had with Punk at Summerslam and tell me that guy doesn't have charisma. His presence there is just dominating. Just watching him walk around and do Lesnar things is completely captivating


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

All this talk has me throw on Brock's dvd. Gotta get pumped for tonight! Love his interview from before ER 2012. "athletes like me don't get rusty", "i don't feel pain", I want to bring legitimacy", "i'm not a superstar. i'm an ass kicker". Fucking beast.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mick Foley just cut an incredible textual promo on Facebook regarding the Rumble tonight:



Spoiler: FOLEY



WHO'S READY TO RUMBLE?

With the exception of Mania, this is the most wonderful day of the year for this wrestling fan. The Rumble match ALWAYS delivers - with plenty of drama, some humorous moments, and a couple of crowd-pleasing surprises each year. Like many of you, I'm hoping for an entry from Jake the Snake this year. 

This year's Rumble takes on an added dimension however. This year's winner doesn't get to choose his opponent, and become a participant in ONE of the main event matches at Wrestlemania; he becomes a participant in THE main event at Wrestlemania.

There is another added dimension to this year's Rumble as well. In no other year that I can remember has there been such a groundswell of good-will towards one particular participant. I still have that brick - that nice, new, red brick - I purchased just for the Rumble (it's right here beside me) and if DANIEL BRYAN doesn't win this Rumble, I'm going to take that nice, new, red brick...and throw it through my television set.

I don't expect you guys to take out your frustration on an innocent television set, but I do think there will be an AWFUL lot of AWFULLY disappointed WWE fans leaving the building tonight in Pittsburgh, and turning off their televisions around the world. 

I like my TV. Here's hoping that the nice, new, red brick I bought will never need to serve its purpose.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^FOLEY DA GOD

Such truth


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Can anyone define 'charisma'? I never can therefore I never cared about 'charisma' because I don't know what it is so 'charisma' can suck a dick. It's like 'psychology'. If there's no set definition I have no reason to give a shit. Both can suck a dick.



FLUX said:


> I put the list in to a random generator and the first name that popped out was an example of the latter - *OWEN HART*. Now I've seen the MUST SEE stuff - vs. Bret @ WM 10 and the cage match, vs. Austin at Summerslam, vs. Bulldog and ofcourse the HBK/Austin tag w/ Bulldog. But other than the Canadian Stampede match, that is quite literally ALL I have seen from Owen. So can anybody offer some suggestions so I can properly formulate an opinion on him, please.


Watch a bunch of Owen & Yokozuna tags. They're actually close to being my favourite tag team run of all time. Start with Owen/Yoko v. Luger/Davey Boy from one of the earlier IYHs in 95 (that's more than likely their best match), then you can enjoy them squashing people. There's a good Owen/Scorpio in 97, a quick but fun Owen/Koko in 94, hell the High Energy tag team are great as well. Watch the Owen/Michaels series if you haven't, too. Much better than Bret/Michaels. Have you seen the Owen/Shamrock lion's den? I loved that match years ago. I'm sure you know of the KOTR sprint with Waltman but I'm pretty sure they have a match on Raw that year that was every bit as good. Man Owen had a great 1994. Shit watch the Bret/Davey Boy v. Owen/Neidhart tag if you haven't too.

Best 'advice' (for lack of word that makes me sound like less of an ass) in this situation is youtube and google video search 'owen hart'. If you like a wrestler then you should be able to find random matches and like them more often than not, whether people have talked about the matches or not. There was no better feeling in the world for me than finding random shit I thought was great that nobody on planet Earth had ever suggested to me. Now I can suggest Koko Ware v. Greg Valentine or Goldberg v. Scott Steiner to others. The random watching is honestly the most fun way to watch wrestling for me and it gets rid of the 'do others think this is good?' leash. Not that that's a leash I have cared about in four years, but there are no expectations. I don't ask if someone has seen this Mike Enos match on youtube and whether or not it's worth my time, I can't form an opinion that way (if I did then I would have the ridiculously awful opinion that Goldberg sucked b/c of some Meltzer 'workrate' bullshit or whatever). Only way to find out is to take 7 minutes to watch it.

Fuck I want to watch random shit again. I always pressure myself to watch great matches for the list I'm putting together but the random shit is so much more exciting. Then I wind up watching nothing. I know I won't find anything like Lawler v. Dundee doing the random shit but it's just by far my favourite way to watch the graps. And day by day more matches are being put on sites like youtube.



ATF said:


> Otherwise, names like Curt Hennig or the aforementioned Lesnar would have bad charisma. Or good mic skills at that.


What's wrong with Hennig on interview? No matter which way it's spun the dude had a lot of personality and isn't really the Benoit type at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are 2 Bret/Davey Vs Owen/Neidhart tags btw . Both worth it. As well as Owen/Bret Vs Quebeccers or however you spell their name from the 94 RR.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I seriously can't see anyone but Punk/Bryan/Batista (Punk has the only interesting feud going on though so I don't think he'll come victorious) winning it, ugh. Probably minimal chances for Reigns. Dunno how I should feel about that.

It'll be 2am here when the PPV starts so I hope I'll be able to stay awake.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As much as I like Reigns, he has no business winning the RR this year at all. I don't consider him an option tbh. I reckon he'll have the standout performance with eliminating bitches and spearing people left right and centre, but he ain't winning.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Must suck having to stay up all night to watch a PPV


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It does . Which is why I usually only do it for RR and WM. Still undecided about tonight. Can't order it so I'd have to resort to a stream. I will be downloading it in the morning anyway for my mate so I might just sleep and watch it when I get up. We'll see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Can anyone define 'charisma'? I never can therefore I never cared about 'charisma' because I don't know what it is so 'charisma' can suck a dick. It's like 'psychology'. If there's no set definition I have no reason to give a shit. Both can suck a dick.


Charisma is the reason why people still cheer on RVD even when he's a lazy piece of lard. It's also the reason why you like Goldberg so much. Some people just bring out a reaction from everyone. Those are charismatic folks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's also the reason why you like Goldberg so much.


Well that's just flat out nonsensical bullshit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol I actually agree with what funnyfaces said. Charisma isn't something you can really define, it's more just an innate magnetism some people have that causes people to want to pay attention to them/be around them. Just cause something isn't easily definable doesn't mean it shouldn't be thought about. That said, people arguing over whether "this guy has more charisma than that guy" is second only to people arguing about a wrestlers drawing power on things that annoy me most about internet wrestling fans. For me, a guy either had charisma (Goldberg, Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, Steve Austin) or doesn't (Curtis Axel, Chavo Guerrero). I don't see charisma as something that can be quantified and scaled.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Owen, which is considered the best Owen/HBK match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Speaking of Owen, which is considered the best Owen/HBK match?


There is the IYH 6 Rage in the Cage match and then there is the Title vs Title match on Raw, correct? Or am I missing one?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> There is the IYH 6 Rage in the Cage match and then there is the Title vs Title match on Raw, correct? Or am I missing one?


There is also one in 1997, HBK's last Raw match before he returned i think.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Brock/Show's match from Smackdown when the ring collapsed. It was a bit on the short side but awesome to watch. BROCK is a natural heel but his performance here as a babyface just shows his versatility as a talent. Really excited about the Rumble tonight! :mark:

Just have Orton, Brock and Batista win the Big Three and I'm going to sleep filled with happiness.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Just watched Brock/Show's match from Smackdown when the ring collapsed. It was a bit on the short side but awesome to watch. BROCK is a natural heel but his performance here as a babyface just shows his versatility as a talent. Really excited about the Rumble tonight! :mark:
> 
> Just have Orton, Brock and Batista win the Big Three and I'm going to sleep filled with happiness.


You already had your perfect PPV ending this year with SummerSlam (Punk losing to Brock, Orton cashing in and winning the title) let us Daniel Bryan fans have our moment in the sun with Bryan being a surprise entrant and winning the thing 

Are you going to be streaming it? I finally got a real honest to goodness laptop again so I guess I'm gonna try to find a stream, I just am a total rookie when it comes to this stuff so I'm gonna have to google search one or something.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I am greedy, so I am going to root for my own guys.  With that said, I don't mind Bryan winning as long as I get Orton vs Brock at EC and Orton in a prominent match at WM. I like Bryan myself, but the constant moaning in this forum is making it hard to support him because of how annoying it gets to see people non-stop create the same ol' "if Bryan doesn't win, I will quit" thread.

Yes, I always stream. Check your rep for the one I use. Discovered it around this time last year and have used it for every PPV. (I actually watched every single PPV live except the Rumble and that's the one I was most hyped about :lol)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm more excited to find out who is working with Brock at EC.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I am greedy, so I am going to root for my own guys.  With that said, I don't mind Bryan winning as long as I get Orton vs Brock at EC and Orton in a prominent match at WM. I like Bryan myself, but the constant moaning in this forum is making it hard to support him because of how annoying it gets to see people non-stop create the same ol' "if Bryan doesn't win, I will quit" thread.
> 
> Yes, I always stream. Check your rep for the one I use. Discovered it around this time last year and have used it for every PPV. (I actually watched every single PPV live except the Rumble and that's the one I was most hyped about :lol)




I owe you big time for that link man thanks.



Personally, I 100% agree with you about the pissing and moaning regarding Danielson on this forum. It's ridiculous. I tend to treat Daniel Bryan marks the same way I treat Punk marks, I just fucking ignore them. I don't want those idiots to spoil the joy I get in watching a guy wrestle. Punk marks can be the absolute worst, but Daniel Bryan marks are slowly but surely climbing their way to the top of the IWC's most annoying list. I like Punk and Bryan because they are 2 of the best full time guys we have now as far as match quality goes. The guys I'm an actual "mark" for are all either dead (Eddie, Benoit), retired (Vader, Foley, Finlay) or wrestle 1-3 times a year (Taker, Regal, Brock, and sadly Mark Henry and Rey Mysterio).

If Daniel Bryan doesn't win the Rumble it's really not a big deal. Yea it would be a great moment, but in the long run, the longer Bryan keeps getting shit on, the better it will be for him. I'm not convinced him having a long WWE title run would be the best thing right now. With Lesnar, Batista, Orton, and Cena still on top, Bryan could get the Punk treatment and have his title run not be the focal point of the show, which doesn't help anyone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a big supported of Bryan and absolutely would love him to win the RR and shit because he DOES deserve it and the company seems to be retarded regarding the whole Bryan situation and just how over he is. However, stopping watching if he doesn't? LOL. I don't stop watching any time Undertaker loses. Its just stupid.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, I'm fully convinced Bryan will get his well deserved extended title run after WM and not only that, he'll likely win the Rumble at some point down the line, main event WM and win more titles. It took me a while, but I'm starting to believe Bryan marks are even worse than Punk marks.

Only guys I mark for in the roster are Orton and Brock. Aside from them, Taker and Rock are up there too from active wrestlers while the rest are dead, thing of the past or retired (Benoit, Austin, thuganomics Cena).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> I'm a big supported of Bryan and absolutely would love him to win the RR and shit because he DOES deserve it and the company seems to be retarded regarding the whole Bryan situation and just how over he is. However, stopping watching if he doesn't? LOL. I don't stop watching any time Undertaker loses. Its just stupid.



Exactly. MIck Foley lost 90% of his big matches and I never cared one single bit. Eddie lost about a bazillion times in a row to Rey and I never signed up to a forum to rant about how WWE was "burying" Eddie. I love how the fans that think they are the smartest are the ones that WWE ends up mind fucking them into thinking it's real.

As long as a wrestler I like is getting TV time against decent opponents on a regular basis, I could give a fuck less about their placement on the card. Yea it was awesome seeing Eddie beat Brock at No Way Out, but if I had a choice between Eddie in the Main Event scene for the WH title against Triple H or Batista in 2005 or getting his amazing program with Rey in the mid card, I'd take the mid card feud with Rey every single time. Match quality and decent story lines are all I care about, titles stopped meaning shit to me when the WWE started telling us they didn't mean shit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I repped you the one I use Cjack, its been flawless since July


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

This thread really has the "coolest" guys on the forum, everyone is so level-headed most of the time 

Also a huge mark for Orton (loved his Legend Killer days) and only started watching regularly after last year's Survivor Series so I mostly have good memories of him.

The Rumble seems pretty predictable (as far as the winners go), so I hope the matches turn out good enough. I actually really like Bryan (especially in the ring), but it's hard to support him when looking at this forum. No matter who will win the Rumble, there will be shittons of threads about it (either circlejerks or shitstorms) and that going to be unbearable for me.

He'll have a great match no matter what, I believe.

Oh, C2D, can you also send me the link? Thanks in advance.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh, and if Bryan is suddenly in the Rumble, how are they going to pull it off? I mean where would he get his number and so on?

I personally expect the fans to chant "YES!" during the later stages of the match (like entrants 20-30).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Check your rep Doubt, gave you a site

Watching a random Vader/Steamboat match on YT, its not the human cage though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Depending on how the Rumble ends, I might take a break from this forum for a few months so I can enjoy the Road to Wrestlemania in peace without it being spoiled by visiting this forum and hearing them bitch about this and that. The shitstorm that will follow if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble will make it impossible to enjoy this place outside of this thread maybe and I don't want to end up hating Bryan, so I'll see what happens.

Gin, sent it on rep.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd hate to be a WWE mod 2morrow with all the shit that'll likely go down.

Oh wait. Shit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Honestly have never seen you in a WWE thread besides this one :lmao

Not that I blame you


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The best part about this thread is that we all make digs on each other, but everyone can take it and nobody throws a Pyro-like hissy fit over small things. That, and we all have the common goal of spreading the word of Finlay and Mark Henry.

I try my best not to let the opinions of fans impact my opinion on a wrestler/athlete/musician. It's not the talent's fault that their fanbase is rowdy. Just like who you like and ignore the idiocy. Every fanbase except for Finlay and Henry is made up of dumbasses.

Lost in the shuffle of Rumble talk is another really good Rumble match: 1-2-3 Kid & Bob Holly vs. Tatanka & Bam Bam Bigelow. Oh man, what a doozy!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Honestly have never seen you in a WWE thread besides this one :lmao
> 
> Not that I blame you


That's because I'm usually not anywhere else but here. I'm like, the laziest mod ever :lmao. Well, McQueen was pretty darn lazy...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mcqueen was a mod? I didn't even know that :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Andy was a mod too (God of Cunt). The people in charge have terrible taste when it comes to choosing mods... .

But if they ever take away my powers I'll kill em all!!!! :side:

So the 04 RR still holds up as being tremendous, even with the dodgy finish. I mean, nobody winning the match? That's insane.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> So the 04 RR still holds up as being tremendous, even with the dodgy finish. I mean, nobody winning the match? That's insane.


And apparently, there was no number one entrant.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RR 04 :mark:

I guess the Vader/Steamer match was on WCW worldwide 5/30/93, twas pretty great

Might check out the Pre show now

EDIT: Cal are you gonna be in the chatbox for the show?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

C2D would rep if I could 

I'll hang around in the main thread for now though, thanks to both of you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, won't be in the chatbox. Still not decided on whether or not I'm watching it live.

Cheap plug for a video I made last year http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1251 . A "by the numbers" parody video that was part of my RR special. Decided to slice it out and just upload it on its own.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

So the NAO are the tag champs...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just turned into the pre-show in time to see it. *sigh*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This Bryan/Wyatt match is actually quite bossy. Easily the best I've seen from Bray in ring wise. Needs to work on his control segments still, but in a year or two he could he special.

NAO are the Tag Team Champs.....really now. Why? Just why?

Edit- dammit Bray, don't forget to sell the leg! Limb work that goes nowhere is a massive pet peeve of mine.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Part timers are really getting it on.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan: ******

I highly doubt Wyatt will have a better match than this in his career.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

What a great opener that was.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Funnyfaces put that shit in a fucking spoiler tag

C'mon man

**** for the opener, had a dull middle part but was :mark: otherwise


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***3/4 for Bryan/Wyatt, the clear ending made me mad, but Sister Abigail intrpo the barricade looked sick


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Great match but I think the wrong person won, especially considering it was essentially a clean win.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

***3/4 for Danielson/Wyatt. That was absolutely fabulous. I can't remember the last time a wrestler was as hot as Bryan is right now. Amazing. That sister Abigail into the retaining wall was ILL.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Raging Eboue said:


> Great match but I think the wrong person won, especially considering it was essentially a clean win.


this is great booking. just setting up the "oh he lost to this guy but came back to win the rumble" angle. setting up wyatt for a big match vs Bryan at EC. great for both guys.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at Jerry Lawler saying that Lesnar lost to Big Show at Royal Rumble 2002.

EDIT: LMFAO at that match. :brock


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Lesnar vs Big Show Dud

I might give it 1/2 * just because of the F5 to Show.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I guess Big Shows injury from the day before let them use this finish?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That was a fun squash. I enjoyed that more than I did the WrestleMania match Brock had with Hunter tbh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

this means it probably doesn't count as an appearance, thank god. 

N/A for it otherwise


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now let's hope that the same happens to Cena/Orton.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

That chairshots were awesome


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> this is great booking. just setting up the "oh he lost to this guy but came back to win the rumble" angle. setting up wyatt for a big match vs Bryan at EC. great for both guys.


If it ends up like that yeah but I'm still not convinced that's how it will go down.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What is wrong with you people? Short matches can be plenty enjoyable when done right, and that was done right. I dug it. Brock is Brock. Do I wish they gave them 10-12 minutes and let them go to war? Absolutely. But that was still more fun than any Kofi Kingston match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What a waste of an appearance. But it's funny to see Brock murder Big Show completely. :lol

Wyatt vs Bryan was a good match.

Now bring on Orton vs Cena already.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

**** for Bryan/Wyatt. Holy shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> What a waste of an appearance. But it's funny to see Brock murder Big Show completely. :lol
> 
> Wyatt vs Bryan was a good match.
> 
> Now bring on Orton vs Cena already.


That's not counting as an appearance. Hell still be at Elimination Chamber, mania, and Summerslam at least. No sweat, look at it as bonus Brock.


Plus, if Randy wins tonight, he's definitely facing Brock at EC so you're getting your dream match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar taking off the gloves to make sure he still had feeling in his hands = :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

That's how they will keep Show,out of WM this year. Brock the Destroyer :mark:


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Wyatt/Bryan was unreal. ****1/4.

Show/Lesnar N/A.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I still want a 10-15 minute Henry vs Lesnar match sometime in the future. I know that's pretty much a pipe dream at this point, but hey, a man can dream can't he?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

They probably added more minutes to the Wyatt/Bryan match, because of Show's injury and this match shortness. Can't complain about that, the two put on an incredible match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Kind of worried Cena/Orton is gonna get a shit ton of time


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea that's true, I was surprised they had the faith in Bray to give him 20 minutes, if he wasn't on his game he easily could have been exposed. That and he was in the ring with the best wrestler in the world right now.

Then again, it could also mean we have another 5-7 minutes of Cena/Orton, and that might not be such a good thing. Those two should always stay under 20 minutes when in the ring together.

Fingers crossed we get NWO 2008 Cena/Orton and not the rest of the garbage they have put out.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

They'll probably get about 25/30 minutes


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Warning- about to nit pick


I fucking hate when WWE has the Champion introduced first in a title match. It's ridiculous and demeaning to the title. Do you think Harley Race would have ever been introduced first, then stepped to the side of the ring while his challenger was introduced so the guy could run wind sprints between the ropes like Cena does? Fuckkkk no. It's stupid and it needs to change.

Okay, rant over.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at this crowd. At this rate, this match will be worse than Rock/Punk!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Cena Orton doesn't look like a great match so far.

Crowd is awful, btw. I truly can't stand stuff like that. I'll be pissed if they do this to every match not including Bryan from now on.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Daniel Bryan chants during title match :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can you blame the crowd? This sham of a feud deserves to be shat on.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This crowd is a riot. Honestly, I'm all for them chanting Daniel Bryan when a shit match is going down.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

At least Orton is handling the chants correctly.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

This show would have been awesome in New Jersey


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

This crowd is awesome :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The match isn't good, but the crowd :banderas 

If batista wins the rumble the crowd will be GOAT


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

One thing WWE needs to teach their talent is how to react to this kind of crowd. You can't no sell it. You have to do exactly what Orton did and talk trash back.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Enough with the ref bumps and the medics already. Jesus fucking Christ this shit is so old.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know this all wouldn't have happened if they just let CM Punk continue his historic title reign into the next Royal Rumble.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Wow Orton tapped out instantly? Jeez this match is so fucked up..


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

"THIS IS AWFUL"

:lmao

I can't remember a crowd shitting on a match this bad in a while.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Holy shit this is the same finish as their house shows, what's going on?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol. Shits worse then Rock V Punk.

FINISHERZ!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This match is absolute, unadulterated, garbage. Whoever the agent was for this should be demoted and or fired. If I paid to see this crap I'd be pissed.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

INB4 C2D gives it ***3/4 stars.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

:lmao the worst possible WM card is actually happening


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Punk was better than this. This match just turned into a finisher fest in the end.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

CENA/WYATT :lmao 

** for that, ***** for the crowd


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

And some of you guys actually thought that Rock/Punk couldn't be topped (err...bottomed).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:lmao I cannot fucking believe they are really gonna go with Cena/Wyatt at WM 30. WWE, just when you think their creative team can't get any worse, they manage to shock you again.

Atleast C2D is gonna be happy, Orton is still champ and looks destined for a match with Brock at EC.

Bryan/Wyatt: ***3/4
Show/Lesnar: **3/4
Cena/Orton: 1/4*

Orton has now had precisely 2 good matches since cashing in MitB at SS: vs Goldust and vs Bryan on Raw. 2! And this guy is the world champ! I love WWE sometimes.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Taker/Cena again.. Stupid finnish


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> INB4 C2D gives it ***3/4 stars.


I would go for it somewhere around that mark. 

I don't know about you guys but them hijacking each other's finishers was awesome. Started off slow but then halfway through really picked up, evidenced by the fact the crowd stopped trying to take over. Maybe not 3 and 3 quarters, but 3 and a half would be reasonable imo. I nearly crapped myself when Cena dragged Orton to the center of the ring then the Wyatt's music hit and I marked out from happiness.

Oh and Cole finally called the Crossface correctly. About fucking time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I would go for it somewhere around that mark.
> 
> I don't know about you guys but them hijacking each other's finishers was awesome. Started off slow but then halfway through really picked up, evidenced by the fact the crowd stopped trying to take over. Maybe not 3 and 3 quarters, but 3 and a half would be reasonable imo. I nearly crapped myself when Cena dragged Orton to the center of the ring then the Wyatt's music hit and I marked out from happiness.


The markdom has gone too far....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A DUD would be generous.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

That match was not that good, I agree.

I have nothing against the crowd but I dont like them throwing shit at the wrestlers before the match even starts. There was a chance the match might turn good, unfortunately that wasn't the case, though.

The finish with the stolen finishers was pretty cheesy.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Cena vs Wyatt

I don't see how how much chemistry they can possibly have. Cena isn't exactly Al Pacino when it comes to acting and selling other people. Especially newcomers.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Also the dirtsheet from some days before might turn out to be true.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I would go for it somewhere around that mark.
> 
> I don't know about you guys but them hijacking each other's finishers was awesome. Started off slow but then halfway through really picked up, evidenced by the fact the crowd stopped trying to take over. Maybe not 3 and 3 quarters, but 3 and a half would be reasonable imo. I nearly crapped myself when Cena dragged Orton to the center of the ring then the Wyatt's music hit and I marked out from happiness.
> 
> Oh and Cole finally called the Crossface correctly. About fucking time.




Dude, come on. That was AWFUL. There was not one single thing good about it. And the crowd was crapping on it around 3/4 of the way through with "THIS IS AWFUL" chants. Come on man, I know your a fan, but that was bad. It was just a stupid finisher fest for the last 5 minutes, the crowd stopped chanting because they kept thinking it was gonna end. Outside of Cena doing a Crossface (that's why it gets *1/4 from me instead of a DUD) there wasn't one redeemable thing about it.

It's just my opinion, I'm not saying your wrong for liking it or anything, I just don't understand how someone could enjoy that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> The markdom has gone too far....


As opposed to waiting impatiently to shit on the match just because of the participants? Yeah, I think I'll stay marking over it. 

*Cactus*: Not comparing it to Rock/Austin, but that match also featured lots of finishers. Doesn't make it bad. You people are overacting. They kicked out each other's finishers once each. And of course, stealing each other's finisher.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at that crowd booing Batista.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol. meltzers reporting Orton threw a fit backstage.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its your opinion man, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I just cant see someone liking that. 

But hey, we all have different tastes


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Its your opinion man, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I just cant see someone liking that.
> 
> But hey, we all have different tastes


I was actually into it, so I guess that contributed. Maybe it needs a rewatch, but as of now, the live experience was fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> As opposed to waiting impatiently to shit on the match just because of the participants? Yeah, I think I'll stay marking over it.
> 
> *Cactus*: Not comparing it to Rock/Austin, but that match also featured lots of finishers. Doesn't make it bad. You people are overacting. They kicked out each other's finishers once each. And of course, stealing each other's finisher.


Are you referring to Rock/Austin WM 19? Your right that match did have a healthy amount of finishers, but the way they built into them is what made it work. This match, to me atleast, just seemed like them cycling through their signature moves for 10 minutes then cycling through their finishers and each other's finishers for 5 minutes. I'm not saying your wrong for liking it or anything, but I personally just feel both guys completely 100% mailed that match in. It's like no thought went into it at all, in other words the complete opposite of No Way Out 2008.


Having watched so much 2005-2006 Orton lately, it just leaves me depressed how far he's fallen. He's still capable of greatness as evidenced by that Bryan match on Raw, but I truly feel he and Cena (both are equally guilty here) just completely shit on the fans with that performance.

Atleast Randy taunting the crowd was fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This Rumble has been awesome so far.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

CESARO :mark:

and FELLA :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just when I thought the Rumble was starting to hit a lull, the JBL elimination happened :lmao

The way he no sold it made me legit laugh out loud, good shit.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This crowd is shitting on Bryan not being in the Rumble.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Crowd is furious :lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

And they have any right to be shtting


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This was on pace to be a top three Rumble, and they make this mistake.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> This crowd is shitting on Bryan not being in the Rumble.


Yeah, I feel pretty damn bad for them. They are PISSED. The show has been fucking AWESOME thou.

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: for Sheamus

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: for Kofi

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: for Swagger and Rusev

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: for Cesaro


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This fucking company :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Idiots


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

WOW they are fucking shitting on the final 3 BIG TIME. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow I've never heard a crowd this pissed at a show before. First we get the dud fest between Cena and Orton, then they screw Bryan and don't even let him enter the Rumble let alone win it. It's gotten to the point were no one else can survive unless Bryan gets his time in the sun. I can't believe WWE completely left him out or the Rumble. He didnt HAVE to win it, but leaving him out entirely is a joke.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO. That is the worst spear I've ever seen.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao holy shit


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh god.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow, just WOW, this is fucking ridiculous. BATISTA? Why is WWE that stupid? I'm honestly tempted to just watch indy wrestling, because this is just fucking shit. NO ONE wanted Batista, yet HHH has to let his fucking buddy win. Just pathetic. 

I'm getting nausous at this fuckery, I'm a pretty optimistic person but this was just sad


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NAO won the tag titles. In 2014. ON THE FUCKING PRE-SHOW.

Bray Vs Bryan was... fucking GOOD. Honestly wasn't expecting much out of Bray, but damn. Both guys looks awesome. Disappointed with bryan losing, mainly because I don't see how that ends their feud, and I want bryan to move on to something else.

:lmao at Lawler "Show gave Lesnar his first loss, and ironically it was at the ROYAL RUMBLE IN 2002" :lmao

The fuck was that? I mean, it was fun but... what? They got like, sub 10 minutes? And half of that was Lesnar smashing a chair over Show before the bell . I liked how Lesnar took a KO punch and wasn't knocked out. But that's it. How disappointing .

Whole thing makes Lesnar look like a beast, but did they really have to waste all that time with chair shots?

Speaking of time... 2 hours left on the show. Only 2 matches left. RR match is around an hour. Leaving an hour for... Orton Vs Cena :|. 

I was watching an old episode of House before the RR started, so I'm gonna watch that instead of the title match.

Oh man this is awesome . It's the episode where House reveals he has a stash of Vicodin in a Lupus textbook because "IT'S NEVER LUPUS!" :lmao.

Holy fuck I just checked the match to see if anything was going on, and there were "THIS IS AWFUL" chants :lmao. I know I made the right choice watching House!

Is that a "we want divas" chant? :lmao incredible.

JBL "These guys are fighting to be the best of this generation". So uhhh... is this like the first round in a tournament? Because no way are these 2 in the finals for greatest of this generation .

Wyatt Family? Well that was... random. Orton wins.

So... is Bray moving from Bryan to Cena? Hey, if it gets Bryan onto something better I'm all for it. Doubt Undertaker/Cena is happening this year so i don't care what Cena does at WM, should this go that far.

Outlaws get interviewed and tell Rene she ISN'T invited to their championship celebration? Gay.

Rumble time :mark:. Full screen time.

So I mostly loved the rumble match. Lots and lots of fun. SHEAMUS. KEVIN NASH. JBL. But holy fuck at the fans. When Rey came out at #30 and they all realised they weren't getting Bryan they just shit over everyone and everything and it fucking ruled. Then they decided to get behind Reigns when it came down to him and Batista, because who the fuck wants Batista to win the RR match in 2014? And then Batista won and it left a shitty taste in everyone's mouth. Oh and Reigns broke Kane's record with 12 eliminations. And they just kinda brought it up. OH HEY REIGNS JUST TIED KANE. OH HE JUST BROKE THE RECORD. MOVING ON.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I LOVE the crowd for shitting on that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ratings 

Bryan/Bray: ****

Bork/Show: **1/2

Orton/Cena: *

Rumble: ***3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

New Age Outlaws vs. Rhodes Brothers: *****
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt: ******
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show: :brock
John Cena vs. Randy Orton: *DUD*
Royal Rumble: ******

I never heard Pittsburgh that crazy. Thank you Pittsburgh, and fuck you WWE.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rumble's content was good, but I just can't dismiss that horrible outcome.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Batista won.. Orton/Batista probably a match, if hot main-event at WM30.. and that's how you destroy the Grand Daddy anniversary


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mick Foley:

Mick Foley ‏@realmickfoley
Does @WWE actually hate their own audience? I've never been so disgusted with a PPV.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan vs. Bray: :lenny 
Bork vs. Show: Pretty entertaining for what it was.
Cena vs. Orton: :vince5
Rumble: FUCK THIS COMPANY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked the Rumble match, but it left a sour enough taste in my mouth that I can't rate it right now.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really hope we get some dirtsheet stories on tonight, I wanna know what HHH was thinking tonight

And Foley is so fucking correct


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok, Royal Rumble review:

NAO/Rhodes Brothers - **3/4
Bryan/Wyatt - ***3/4
Lesnar/Show - **3/4
Orton/Cena - **3/4
Royal Rumble match - ***3/4

Bryan vs. Wyatt was the singles match that stole the show. 

Lesnar vs. Show was quick but served its purpose of making Brock look like a beast and that was fine by me.

Orton vs. Cena was meh. The crowd was funny and the constant finishers/reversal,doing each others finisher was overwhelming to the point where it got ridiculous. It was an ok match, but nothing incredibly spectacular.

The Royal Rumble match was fun with some cool moments like Kofi doing his annual spot and some surprise entrants. The #30 entrant was so underwhelming lol I love Rey and all, but I like everyone else wanted Bryan. The drowd shitting on the final four was funny as hell :lol Did not like the winner at all but what could you do.

Overall, fun night that could've been a lot better with the Royal Rumble match.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

DB vs Wyatt was an amazing match. Good for Bray, never looked better. DB is a 5 star class worker.

Brock THE BEAST GOT DAMN. Marked out MAJOR for that vicious seg. :brock is terrifyingly legit.

Cena vs Orton was ok in the second half of the match imo. Was exciting to see Orton doing Cena's moves especially the STFU, and :lmao at Cena doing the RKO in a good way thou.

The rumble had me at a loss of breath until the end fpalm I friggin lost it when Swagger and Rusev had that stare down/brawl. And Kofi delivered again. I lost my voice @ Sheamus returning thou :mark::mark::mark: died down when DB didn't come out, and Punk was eliminated. I snapped again when Roman went HAM on Batista but fpalm to Batista winning.

overall the show was pretty damn good imo minus the ending 8/10

I would say Batista could still face DB...but after this, I'll just see what happens because my hopes are shot BIG TIME with the WWE now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Mick Foley:
> 
> Mick Foley ‏@realmickfoley
> Does @WWE actually hate their own audience? I've never been so disgusted with a PPV.


Heheh. Wonderful.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Pittsburgh GOATed tonight :lmao We Want Divas :lmao You Both Suck :lmao

I liked the Rumble a lot. ROMAN MOTHERFUCKIN REIGNS :mark: :mark: :mark: Batista's spear fpalm fpalm REIGNS' spear :mark: Crowd shitting on Batista winning :lmao Oh, and REIGNS :mark:

Also, I enjoyed the Brock chair beating. Comical that it was.

Pretty much my emotions. Was hoping for Hunter to eliminate Punk, but I get that they're still building to that confrontation.

That Foley tweet is pretty spot on. I'm not disgusted though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

For the love of god tell me this somehow, SOMEHOW ends up with Bryan winning the title at Mania. WWE can't be this stupid.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I frequently find it hilarious how the WWE finds a way to infuriate people. The decisions are obviously stupid but seeing people lose their shit is wonderful. Rather Barista didn't win as I disliked the guy in 2005, I can't say I'm a fan of the Botox injected, nose pierced metrosexual version either. Feel bad for the guys in the match after Bryan didn't come out though. Wyatt/Bryan was good, Brock/Show was SHORT, Cena/Orton was alright-ish and the rumble was rather great, despite the winner.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Legit cant wait to be apart of the 70'000 smarks taking a giant shit on Orton V Batista


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ :lmao Foley,


soo yea, I'm usually a calm and collective fan but even I got to say they dropped to ball abit here, punk or bryan should of won the rumble


PPV thoughts
- every match was a DUD except the rumble match, which was pretty fun

:ti Randy Orton ..... thats it


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I loved the fact that when it was the final four, the crowd shat all over it but when it came down to Reigns and Batista, everyone was pulling for Reigns :lmao :lmao :lmao

Plus I think that Reigns beat Kane's record in eliminations? Man, they are pushing Reigns pretty hard.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can't wait for the people that say "you don't want Cena, they give you someone new and you shit on it". Cena >>>> Batista in every way.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Fuck. This. Company. I finnaly agree with Punk, this company will be better when Vince Mcmahon's dead


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This could be for Batista/Brock but I doubt it 

I really hope that RAW is just the shitting on Dave episode


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Brye said:


> For the love of god tell me this somehow, SOMEHOW ends up with Bryan winning the title at Mania. WWE can't be this stupid.


The only way they can salvage this is to have Bryan win the elimination chamber match, and make it a three-way match with him, Batista, and the world champ. If it's Lesnar, it'd be a huge moment for Bryan to take both he and Batista down.

The dirt sheets have been right about everything else, though, so it looks like that's not in the plans at all.

It's funny how in denial people have been about all the dirt sheet rumors.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I loved the fact that when it was the final four, the crowd shat all over it but when it came down to Reigns and Batista, everyone was pulling for Reigns :lmao :lmao :lmao


Gotta root for the lesser of the 2 evils.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

This is like the Rock situation all over again........except.....you know.......the rock actually brings in the mainstream audience and breaks records.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Btw :hbk3 and :flair3 stole the show


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So how many people after tonight are screaming that they aren't gonna watch any more? :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rock/Cena>>>>Orton/Batista

Would legit prefer it at this point


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

:flair3's prediction was right. EVOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingLobos said:


> This is like the Rock situation all over again........except.....you know.......the rock actually brings in the mainstream audience and breaks records.


dat 4.0 in the fourth quarter of that may 22nd 2000 Raw. Good times.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Gotta root for the lesser of the 2 evils.


Would have been ok with Reigns winning, but no Batista..


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> So how many people after tonight are screaming that they aren't gonna watch any more? :lmao


They turned the catbox off as soon as Batista throw Reigns over :ti PPL ARE MAD


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Rock/Cena>>>>Orton/Batista
> 
> Would legit prefer it at this point












:ti Sheamus/Cesaro stare down didn't work. Dammit.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

A part of me wanted Punk to win


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

No Taker surprise entrant?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If the dirt sheets are right Bryan is wrestling Sheamus at Mania. Seems so random and not big enough for the most over guy in the company but on the plus side we know that match could be a show stealer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bryan/Sheamus at Mania, despite probably being a great match, is a fucking travesty.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Foley is burying this ppv :lmao

My stream was fucked at the time, was bryan/wyatt any good ?


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

DB vs Bray was MOTN. Bray even held up really nice in it. And the finish was awesome.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Bryan/Wyatt was really good. Wyatt playing up do his demented character was great and Bryan being Bryan (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I enjoyed Bryan/Wyatt. And I've very surprised to say so. Bray biting Bryan's hand to avoid the LaBell lock was pretty cool, and seemed like something he would do. Bray also nearly killed Bryan with a clothesline. I'm also amazed at the time they got. Felt like at least 23-24 minutes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm so glad that I didn't let my five year old brother watch that calamity. He just started getting into wrestling, but the only guy he attaches himself to is Bryan. What a horrible early memory that would have been for him.

Atta boy, Mick. Keep on killin' em.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to listen to the pwtorch show that goes live in 10 min, interested to hear there take 


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----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^link me that man, I'm give the meltzer's of the world a listen tonite


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah Smitty, drop me that link if you don't mind.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Batista winning and Bryan not even entering. Awful. You know something is wrong when a strong majority of the crowd is booing the babyface Rumble winner.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I think Ziggler was the second biggest pop in the rumble behind Sheamus, and the crowd booed when he was eliminated.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I think Ziggler was the second biggest pop in the rumble behind Sheamus, and the crowd booed when he was eliminated.


Only smarks like that spaghettied hair jobber Wagg, oh you didnt know ?


Speaking of oh you didnt know :kobe9 tag champs


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Did anyone else think they could have made this rumble the 40 man rumble. Too much star power in this one. They could have added Sin Cara, Daniel Bryan, Mexican bull fighters, prime time players, curtis axel and bray Wyatt at least. 

1. Daniel Bryab vs Bray Wyatt - ****
amazing match in my opinion and the current moty by a mile. 

2. Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - **
Short but fun beatdown

3. Randy Orton vs John Cena - ***
Everyone, including my wife hated it, but I thought it was better then the Cena/Rio series. 

4. Rumble match **** until number 30 came out, then ***3/4


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought Ziggler still had that concussion and wasn't cleared to compete. I was pleasantly surprised. Him selling Reigns' spear was :banderas


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

They didn't need 40 people. If they had, it would have had Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler again. Putting Torito and Khali in there was stupid. Could have but Bryan in. Could have brought Zayn up. Kevin Nash was even pretty silly. 2011 was cool, but tonight didn't do it for me.

That reminds me: I liked Rusev tonight. Wasn't crazy about the little bit of him I saw on NXT, but thought he did well in the Rumble. Needing six guys to get him out made him look strong.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm not smitty, but here's the PWTorch radio link. It's on live now:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pro-wr...livecast-ppv-post-game-show--wwe-royal-rumble


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: fucking forgot about the dropkick by Punk while the Cesaro big swing was happening. Hero tribute right there.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Oh for the love of god couldn't we just have thrice in a lifetime??!

The results are worse than last year's ( which was the most predictable rumble of all times...people were calling it since July that Rock/Cena would win to have part II)... I mean really, Batista ? Orton? Cena? For those of you that watched in 1995 how would it have felt to see Bret Hart, HBK, Yokozuna, Bob Backlund,Bam Bam and Diesel main eventing in 2004 instead of Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, HHH, Angle?? LIKE NOTHING'S FUCKING CHANGED IN A DECADE


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----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Ziggler support was :banderas

Was actually fucking pissed when Reigns eliminated him. 

Great crowd, but utter shit booking.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm not even mad. Just sitting here, with a smile, enjoying the shitstorm and the embarrassment Pittsburgh gave to the 'E. Brock's beatdown and the Bryan/Bray match were fantastic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There are thread here named "What if this is all a work" and "Positive View" :lmao :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> There are thread here named "What if this is all a work" and "Positive View" :lmao :lmao


There is a "Sting is the last hope for the company" thread. Also a "Worst Rumble in History" thread.

Amazing :lmao


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

This is nothing. Go check out WWE's Facebook Page. 

This one guy said he's about to kill himself :lmao


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Bryan/Wyatt was a really good match. I wasn't into it much at the start, and I wasn't a fan of the leg work by Bryan because it didn't make much sense to work on the leg seeing as Bryan doesn't have a leg submission, plus it's more of a heel thing to do, and the worst part was the leg work never really went anywhere. But the match really picked up in the middle and the final stretch of the match was great and I thought the finish was really well done. After Bryan had taken Wyatt's finisher on the outside, it was convincing enough for Bray to beat him clean in the ring. Very enjoyable match and for once it was a result that I liked. 

Brock/Show not much to say. The pre-match and post match-beatdowns by Brock on Show lasted longer than the actual match.. very quick match to make Lesnar look unstoppable heading into Mania. There was rumors of Big Show possibly being injured before this match took place so I wonder if that had effect on this match. With the beating Brock delivered to Show I don't think we'll be seeing Show for a while, which I'm fine with, WWE apparently don't have any plans for Big Show at Mania anyway. I did laugh at the end at of the match as I remembered FLUX (I think it was) saying this match was probably going to be a MOTY though. :lmao

Cena/Orton was WOAT. The crowd shat all over the match and rightfully so. It remind me a lot of Rock/Cena II with non-stop finishers, finisher counters, kick outs, stealing finishers trying so hard to make it a big deal, when it was just awful. I was watching the Rumble with friends and the atmosphere in the room during this match was hilarious. :lmao

Rumble match was lots of fun. Better than the last two Rumbles probably. The Shield making this match so good, Roman Reigns damn he impressed me in this match. I'm glad he beat Kane's record for most eliminations too. Other highlights for me was Ziggler's return, I marked because I genuinely didn't think he was going to be in the match. Good to see Rusev in the match, although he barely made a impact which was a shame (fucking Bo Dallas last year made a bigger impact) and he's going to get lost in the shuffle on the roster with Mania Season now. Sheamus's return was decent. And I :mark: when JBL's music hit, I so wanted to see a clothesline from hell, but he got eliminated in a few seconds and it was a waste of a spot, and there was a few wasted spots in this match that annoyed me. :side: Worst part of the match was Kane attacking and eliminating Punk though, fuck that. No Bryan in the match was hilarious, and I knew the crowd was going to shit on the match when they realized he wasn't going to be in it. Booing the hell out of Mysterio when he came out at number 30 was :lmao, booing the hell out of Batista :lmao. Final two really put over Reigns and the crowd really got behind him, as did I, but I knew he wasn't winning. Batista winning was so obvious, once again another very predictable Rumble winner, it's whatever at this point, I expected it and I accept it.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Sono Shion said:


> This is nothing. Go check out WWE's Facebook Page.
> 
> This one guy said he's about to kill himself :lmao


Wow. Shit like that brings me back to realize that I should not take wrestling seriously at all.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Sono Shion said:


> This is nothing. Go check out WWE's Facebook Page.
> 
> This one guy said he's about to kill himself :lmao


Vince will give that dude's fam the WWE network for free.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*Bryan/Wyatt - **** *
SUCH a great match. Bryan can get the best out of anybody. Not taking anything away from Bray though as he was magnificent. Some great bumps by both guys. 

*Brock/Show - ***
The beginning was fucking daft. How long do you have to wait to start the damn match? Short but brutal. The aftermath went on for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

*Cena/Orton - *1/2*
Not COMPLETELY shit, but it was dull as dishwater. The lame-as-fuck 'let's swap finishers' shit is stupid. Wyatts interference was completely unexpected.  @ Bray vs. Cena. I don't know why this is happening.

*Rumble match - **1/2*
So many opportunities here, but what a waste. Rusev appearance was nice (THAT MUSIC!); Nash I couldn't give two fucks about; Shield-Wyatts showdown was COMPLETELY shunned which is absolute bullshit; Sheamus return was nice, and Batista absolutely fucking sucks, showing nothing that would indicate he's worthy of going for the gold. Garbage finish which the crowd gladly shat on.

Overall, I'd give it 6 RANDY SAVAGE chants out of 10.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I think it's a matter of time until people start throwing trash into the ring if they go on like this.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I am not even a Daniel Bryan mark. I like him quite a bit, but I don't necessarily mark for him. It's just that this type of booking is awful. WWE completely ignoring its fans, yet again. It is certainly not normal that the fans were not paying attention at all to the Orton/Cena match and booing the babyface winner of the Rumble. It seems almost as if the WWE management just doesn't give a flying fuck about its fans anymore. This type of behavior is only hurting the company. 

At least the Bryan Wyatt match was good. That Reverse STO into the barricade spot was sick.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've never seen this type of sheer defiance from fans. They legitimately refuse to accept anyone other than Bryan in the main event. It would behoove WWE execs to listen, or else Mania crowd will be even more brutal.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> I've never seen this type of sheer defiance from fans. They legitimately refuse to accept anyone other than Bryan in the main event. It would behoove WWE execs to listen, or else Mania crowd will be even more brutal.


"Listening to the crowd? What is this, 2005?" - :vince4


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Fans should start throwing garbage in the ring like they always would in WCW. Like when Hogan turned or Goldberg won the belt.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rumble match itself was nothing special, at the start, though got better toward the middle, and was pretty fun, up until the very end. Cesaro's swings and Shield conflict were highlights of the match, IMO.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

SKINS25 said:


> Foley is burying this ppv :lmao
> 
> My stream was fucked at the time, was bryan/wyatt any good ?


First four-star match of the year and the highlight of the night (other than Zeb's signs).


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Alim said:


> Fans should start throwing garbage in the ring like they always would in WCW. Like when Hogan turned or Goldberg won the belt.


It's gonna take a good amount of people for that to work. Because I doubt WWE have any problem throwing people out. And some payed good money to be there.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Alim said:


> Fans should start throwing garbage in the ring like they always would in WCW. Like when Hogan turned or Goldberg won the belt.


I honestly thought that that was going to happen, especially because it was at the end of the Rumble, so it's not like the fans would have cared about being thrown out or anything. I'm talking about after Batista won.

I feel bad for the performers, because they're not to blame, but the WWE is only causing resentment of the people they want to push. This whole "ignoring Bryan" thing literally does NO good.

I think that the TLC crowd lulled them into a false sense of security. They didn't shit all over matches during that PPV, so the WWE probably thought they were somewhat safe. 

They made it even worse by Bryan losing that first match. That made people think that Bryan would probably be winning the Rumble, I'm sure.

If things weren't so heavily controlled, Batista could have cut a heel promo right after winning, and gone full-blown heel. "Kiss my ass, I have millions!"

I could tell he WANTED to too. But God forbid they do anything off-script, that hasn't been carefully planned down to the last detail. Ugh. Gotta keep 'dem storylines.


Do you guys think HHH will bother to show his face tomorrow?

I wonder if they're gonna use the concussion excuse tomorrow. Interesting that Bryan is tweeting his complaints. He doesn't give a shit.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

And where in the fucking hell was Curtis Axel?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> I've never seen this type of sheer defiance from fans. They legitimately refuse to accept anyone other than Bryan in the main event. It would behoove WWE execs to listen, or else Mania crowd will be even more brutal.


Yeah, I've never seen anything like this and I've seen a lot of wrestling. The crowd was pretty much in open rebellion during the title match and the Rumble. Has anyone ever seen something like this before?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If Bryan came out at #30, I'm pretty sure the pop would've exceeded the one he got at the end of Raw a few weeks ago.

Oh, and Bray was great in the opener. That creepy upside down crawl toward Bryan was awesome.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The funniest part is that literally none of the storylines or matches or even the Rumble winner matters now. The story coming out of this PPV is the crowd & Daniel Bryan. It's amazing to me how much the WWE is shooting themselves in their own foot. Everything they want to be focused on, is not getting focused on.

In some ways it seems so OTT that it makes me think it's intentional. I mean they do the whole Cena's father storyline thing, and then the match is just a normal match with absolutely NOTHING to indicate that that happened. No flirting with Cena getting DQ'ed, no Orton trying to piss him off, etc. 

The WWE doesn't even care about their world title match with their booking or storylines...




TaylorFitz said:


> Yeah, I've never seen anything like this and I've seen a lot of wrestling. The crowd was pretty much in open rebellion during the title match and the Rumble.


More importantly, I've never seen this type of open defiance from a company toward their fans. I wonder if Vince takes this as a challenge, and that's why he's being so stubborn.

I think Bryan needs to be much, much, more assertive. They can't bury him any harder, cause the fans will shit on things to truly EPIC proportions if they do. He's literally got nothing to lose. He doesn't sound like he complains directly to Vince or HHH...just subtly does it in interviews. 

If he were more assertive and angry behind the scenes, I really do think that things might change.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Bryan/Wyatt - ****

Big Show vs. Brock - **1/4

Cena vs. Orton - **1/2

Rumble - ***

Nothing was _bad_, just so predictable.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

One of the biggest lies Vince ever told was that he gives the people what they want.

Listening to this guy on PW Torch that was at the Rumble describe the show. He said when Rey came out at #30 you would have thought he was the biggest heel ever. :lol

AND WHERE'S THE CHATBOX???


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

After tonight, WWE needs to put Bryan in the main event of Mania this year. Crowd is going to shit all over Batista/Orton if that goes on last for the title.

RR Ratings:

Bryan/Wyatt- ***1/2 (First half was terrible, last half was awesome)
Brock/Big Show- * (Match never really got going)
Orton/Cena- ** (LOL)
RR- ***1/2 (Fun match, :lmao at Batista of all people getting booed for winning)


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Biggest disappointment was no Prime Time Players in the RR


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So listening to this podcast(thanks to lilolme for dropping them the link) it seems that WWE is taking a huge risk by openly defying success so close to the launch of the network. 

Seems stupid 


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----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> So listening to this podcast(thanks to lilolme for dropping them the link) it seems that WWE is taking a huge risk by openly defying success so close to the launch of the network.
> 
> Seems stupid
> 
> ...


I typed in 'WWE Network' on twitter after the Rumble... a lot of people are boycotting out of anger. They're sick of the treatment of Daniel Bryan. WWE's ignorance is making this way worse than it should be. All they had to do was accept the star Bryan has become, put him in the Rumble and have him win. People aren't accepting anyone other than Bryan in the main event now.

Wrestlemania's main event is going to be an absolute disaster if Batista vs. Orton happens. These are the hardcore fans. They aren't going to put up with this bullshit. It could get ugly.

As for the Rumble... the best match was Bryan-Wyatt. I was highly disappointed by the actual Rumble match (not including the result). There weren't any big surprises, the crowd seemed dead throughout until the end when they wanted Bryan and Reigns took over, and the match just seemed slow.

Rhodes Bros vs. New Age Outlaws - **
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt - ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show - * (I miss the F5 on a big guy)
Randy Orton (c) vs. John Cena - ***
Royal Rumble - **1/2


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Absolutely disgusting ending to the Royal Rumble. 

Outlaws/Rhodes **1/4
Wyatt/Bryan ***3/4
Brock/Show FUN
Orton/Cena ***
RR ***

I guess I'm in the minority who didn't mind Cena vs Orton? Lol honesty was pretty decent IMO . And seriously Cena Vs Bray doesn't sound bad. It's obvious they'll never do Cena/Taker so who else would Cena face this year? Orton? Batista? Sheamus? HHH? Fuck that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Punk/Cena (WWE Championship)
Bryan/HHH
Taker/Lesnar
Batista/Orton

is how I would have booked Wrestlemania this year


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Wyatt - ****
Brock/Show - *** (not much of a much obviously, so I'm just rating it as a segment. Great fun to watch)
Orton/Cena - **1/2 (not terrible, just a decent match really. But there was little heat, nobody (not even the WWE I don't think) cares about the story between these two. The whole feud after TLC has felt rushed and heatless, this match suffered for it)
Rumble - ***1/2

I thought the Rumble match itself was quite fun. They only had a few surprises from the past but in my opinion that's kind of a good thing, shows that there was enough current talent to fit into the match. Batista winning was something I expected but it really became hard to watch after Rey entered. Just the crowd shitting all over it made it so uncomfortable to watch. 

You know, I would have loved to see Daniel Bryan getting a title shot at Wrestlemania (he was my pick since before Summerslam), but I knew it wasn't going to happen (it's been obvious the last couple of weeks) so I just kind of accepted it. It's good that people are pushing so hard against it. I don't feel quite as strongly about it but that's me. I just felt deflated, similarly to how I felt last year when Cena won it, as well as when he won the 2012 MITB match.

This time, it's quite a bit more disappointing though, simply because it means Batista is most likely facing Orton, and I don't care to see that. I've also been the type to defend all this the whole time, telling people not to worry and DB will get his time. I honestly still think he will. But it's becoming harder to defend the WWE now, especially after seeing just how vocally against Batista winning the rumble the crowd was, and with that, I'd love to see DB's time come sooner. 

It is just one crowd though, and we will have to see what the Raw crowd tomorrow is like. They could be much more accepting of it, and WWE will continue full steam ahead to their goal.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

bryan/wyatt was fantastic, the rest can get fucked


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Batista won the rumble? They're seriously going with Batista/Orton at WM? :lmao



TaylorFitz said:


> Yeah, I've never seen anything like this and I've seen a lot of wrestling. The crowd was pretty much in open rebellion during the title match and the Rumble. Has anyone ever seen something like this before?


http://theditch.us/riot.html


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Bray/Bryan was AWESOME. Completely took me by surprise. *****1/4*
Show/Lesnar was awful, it didn't make Lesnar look good at all imo, I wanted Brock to attack Show and fight him not with shitty chair shots, made Lesnar look like a pussy. Show came out of that looking better than Lesnar, no idea why.
Cena/Orton - LOL SKIPPED. I don't give a fuck about these two anymore. Shame Bray seems like he's going to get fed to Cena for Mania.

Rumble - It was good until the ending, then the crowd made it amazing. REIGNS was a fucking monster and JBL cameo was fun. Fucking Batista :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Had to go to sleep last night so didn't get the chance to post when it was over. But I give up. I was supporting the idea of Batista winning the Rumble this year. However, after seeing the crowd just shitting on EVERYTHING in sight when Mysterio entered, it was embarrassing. They were so furious that they didn't even give a shit about Kane eliminating Punk (their other favorite) and the Reigns support was out of spite for Batista.

Also Batista didn't look very good last night and there seemed to be ring rust. Bryan simply HAS to be in the main event in a title match this year. There's no way around it. And it's easy to solve with a bit of shenanigans. Have Batista defend his title shot inside Elimination Chamber. Final two comes down to Bryan and Batista. Have Bryan win by some dirty finish like Orton and Kane assaulting both and leaving them destroyed as Bryan barely makes the cover. Batista comes out the next night and complains about getting screwed, so they book Batista/Bryan one-on-one and if Batista wins, it'll become a triple threat. He wins and you got your WM main event in a win/win situation. Batista gets his main event that he probably craved, Batista/Orton is on and Bryan is added to the mix so crowd doesn't completely shit on the match and they can do the finish however they want from there. Not to mention, chances of it being a quality match goes up big time. If WWE wants to save face after last night, this is how it should happen.

From WM onwards, they might as well give up and put Bryan in the title chase as he should be. Crowd will not give up with hijacking other matches until he gets a real title run and WWE have to accept it at this point.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Yeah I'm on the "Let's get this (Bryan's title reign) over with as fast as possible" boat now.

So the crowd can stop crapping on everything.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

*Bray v Bryan*
Just watched it for a second time and loved it, Bray looked like a beast and Bryan was his usual self

****


*Lesner v Big Show*
Fun to see Lesner destroy Show, but a nothing match really.

*

*Cena v Orton*
The crowd were awesome, the match certainly wasn't, it wasn't terrible but these guys just don't have much chemistry. 

**

*Rumble match*
I enjoyed some of this match and hated other parts, really good performance from Reigns and Rollins, loved the Kofi spot, but from when i knew Bryan wasn't in it, i lost interest, Batista winning is just disgraceful and the crowd agreed, oh and :lmao at Rey and Sheamus getting booed.

**1/2


Overall show rating

6/10.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh lawd did that ever backfire in their faces last night. Dear, dear, dear is Raw going to something ridiculous later. I don't even know what to expect any more. 

*Wyatt/Bryan - ****1/4 and MOTN*

Everything else sucked one huge giant dick. Brock's beatdown ran too long but was still cool in the beginning. Cena/Orton never had a chance to be anything other than a DUD. I did mark for Cena's RKO however. That was awesome. Thought the Rumble match itself was a huge disappointment. Punk in at 1 was such a a waste considering he spent 80% of the match lying in the corner. Reigns shining was :mark: and there were some cool moments but holy heavens did that turn out to be a train wreck at the end. There are no words. Terrible Rumble and terrible show outside the opener.

:vince7


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Bryan/Wyatt - **** - Really Good Shit. Loved the dive into the Sister Abigail onto the rail. 

Show/Lesnar - ** - I expected more, well I actually expected a match but hey, whatevs it did it's job I guess.

Cena/Orton - **1/2 - Was what it was, not amazing but not terrible either. 

Rumble - *** - Enjoyed it until the end, started marking like fuck for Reigns when I saw the final 4 as I knew Punk was getting screwed. (Anyone else see Kane make his way out there during the JBL entrance or was it just me?) I like Batista more than the Miz (That's not saying much) But fuck him winning man, fucking bullshit. 

OTHERS:

Bray Wyatt is gold, I love the character and the potential. Plus he's good in the ring. I don't mind the upcoming Cena feud although I would of loved it if he attacked Orton as well. Cena vs. Wyatt at Mania would be good, even though Cena is going to win but Cena/Bryan/Hogan vs. Wyatt Family at Mania is a NO.

Reigns = Badass. Although I'm kind of bummed he beat Kane's record Reigns is a fucking boss so I'll accept it. (I hope next year Taker enters as 1 and eliminates all the other 29 men though) Seriously it's hard not to like the guy, he's a badass in every single possible way. I just hope they don't push him too hard too fast and blow it. 

Mysterio = GOAT Heel

Fuck Batista Winning.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

:ti
Royal Rumble.

Poor Rey Rey though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched RR:

Pre-Show: **1/2
Bryan/Wyatt- ****
Lesnar/Show- *
Cena/Orton- ***
Rumble Match- ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm kind of BLAH that the fans would disrespect a living legend like Rey, but I'm 100 percent certain that they knew exactly what was going to happen if they sent anybody but Bryan out there.

C2D just echoed exactly how I feel in his last post; I'm not Bryan's biggest fan (I like him, always liked him, never loved him) and while I feel he needs a makeover with the goofy hair and beard gone, I simply give zero fucks anymore. The fans chose who they wanted to see in the main event of Wrestlemania, and it's up to the fans to keep these reactions for Bryan loud no matter what WWE is putting on the screen. The triple threat idea is absolutely fantastic and almost NEEDS to happen at this point, WWE really has two choices at this point if they don't want the crowd to eat them alive come mania;

1. Bryan challenges the streak in the MAIN EVENT
2. Bryan is in the WWE title match in the MAIN EVENT

If Orton Vs Batista goes on last at Wrestlemania, I truly feel bad for them as they'll be put in a position to fail and fail fucking hard .

Speaking of Randall, I was getting flashbacks of Rock-Cena II yesterday, you could tell that both guys were like "WTF" and just tried to bust out every cheap trick in the book to get the fans invested. Okay, so the finisher stealing was fucking cool and if you don't think it's cool then that's your cup of tea I guess, but what is the story here? I was having a hard time staying focused on the match because I was laughing so hard at times and it simply isn't Randy or Cena's fault... The fans were having none of it and I'm sure Cena called an audible during the match to trade finishers. Really, if Patterson was the agent for this match he should simply just retire, what the fuck. It was so bad it was good, really I had a ton of fun with it and would honestly prefer it over half of the Cena-Orton matches despite arguably being the worst.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The pop Rey got when he got out :ti

Will probably rewatch when I get home and will write about it 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Wyatt/Bryan* - ***
*Show/Lesnar* - *
*Cena/Orton* - like I was going to watch this :lmao
*Rumble* - **3/4

This Rumble match will be remembered more than last year because it'll go down as the year where the crowd shat on it. I can't even remember anything from last year outside of the terrible final three and Jericho's return.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Actually glad I ordered the RR because that was a disaster that I will never forget


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If the crowd is still this furious they have to do Orton vs Batista vs Bryan at WM..... RIGHT?! Lol seriously though I just can't see them going through with Batista vs Orton for the title anymore.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lost in all of this madness is Sheamus' fun return. Guy hasn't lost a step. I felt so bad for him because you could tell from his facial expressions last night that he thinks Bryan should have been out there.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Last night was the first ppv I've watched since SummerSlam and in that time I hadn't seen but about an hour of RAW total since then. They totally killed any interest I had in the product.

Not only do they totally drop the ball with Bryan in the Rumble but they totally buried him by losing to Wyatt and having Wyatt move on while Bryan will stay the same or go lower. Then it was all about HHH's buddies. Seriously fuck WWE. It's not even all about draws or money, it's about appeasing HHH's ego and friends.

I'm going to watch some DB ROH shit starting with his title win vs Gibson to see the start of something truly special.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah Sheamus' return was awesome. The crowd went nuts for him as well. The fact that they were booing him by the end really does reinforce the fact that Bryan needs to be main eventing. It seems like the crowd will literally accept nobody else. I mean damn, Rey motherfucking Mysterio got booed, and the crowd didn't even seem to care about Punk getting taken out by Kane either.

Anyway, Rumble thoughts:

Bryan/Bray was really good and I was legit surprised they were given 20 plus minutes. Good leg work by Bryan at the start and Bray sold it well until he took control and managed to shake it off. I enjoyed Wyatt's work over a lot more than I thought I would as well. I still really enjoy the character with all of his crazy looks and little sayings he blurts out during his matches. Also that weird crab walk is creepy as hell and is awesome. The match was physical and the end was sick with the Sister Abigail into the barricade. Should Bryan have won? Maybe, but it didn't affect my enjoyment of the match any. All I hope now is that Wyatt moves onto Cena and Bryan get's thrust into the title picture (or some other main event feud at least).

It also appears that I'm the only one that legit loved what Brock and Show did. Brock going crazy on Show with the chair was great and I thought the Punch from Show out of nowhere was awesome. Brock not being quite knocked out was a great way to let it look like Show had a chance against him while still showing that Brock is a straight beast. Brock sold it like a champ as well. It's always cool to see the F-5 on big guys as well so I thought the finish was good too. Then we had Brock smashing the shit out of Show with chairs after the match and although it went on for quite a while I thought it was great. It was brutal as fuck and Brock actually BROKE a chair on Show. I loved the way Show sold the beating as well. He looked visibly shook up and just flat out battered. Sold it like he'd been in a car wreck.

Didn't really watch Cena/Orton properly. Start was dull as hell and then the end was...I dunno...kind of fun I guess. Not much of anything really but I suppose it wasn't anything offensive.

Rumble was really fun and was better than the last couple. A lot of talent in there and some nice surprise entrants. It's a shame that the main focal point will be that Bryan didn't win it really, but I completely understand why the crowd were the way they were and it was funny as fuck. If fans want the company to listen to them they need to shout as loud as possible and that's exactly what they did. 

Overall I enjoyed the show but the title match wasn't particularly good (especially for a world title match). Hopefully now the E listens to the fans and pulls the trigger on Bryan so everything can move forward.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think C2D hit the nail on the head. There is no other choice now, whether you are a fan of Bryan or not, the WWE simply HAS to have him in the Main Event scene going forward. There is simply no other way. I'm no a Bryan mark, but even a blind man could tell he's the best wrestler on the roster and as white hot as any guy has ever been since Stone Cold and Rocky back in the AE. I do wish he'd get a semi-makeover. He needs to trim the beard down so it's not hanging off his face, and switch his ring gear to tights instead of trunks. I think with long tights he would look a lot more legit, plus all the great undersized workers like Eddie, Benoit, and Jericho wore tights (I know Jericho switched to trunks and I've hated that look ever since). I would just hate to think that his ridiculous "look" is whats keeping him from main eventing. The things he can control (i.e. everything but his height) he should fix to make himself look like a legit ass kicker instead of a cartoon.

Outside of that, I don't see how anyone could have a beef with Bryan getting his time on top. He works as hard if not harder than anyone else on the roster, he nearly always has the best match when given the time, and every single fan in attendance these days is behind him. Let him take the ball and run with it like Punk did, he might end up surprising you. As big as Punk was in 2011-2012, I think Bryan is even more over at this point.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Watched most of the show live, but caught the end of the Rumble match today.

Bryan/Wyatt generally was very strong. As much as Wyatt's dedication to the character is admirable, he might have to slowly adjust and learn how to integrate it more seamlessly into matches. Obviously there's a lot of theatrical importance to his mannerisms, which means he'll take his time and will build to something character orientated. That's not terrible in of itself, but it does allow for the flow in a match to dampen if he doesn't time those character touches well. Still, Bryan layed out a very effective structure and bumped superbly for Wyatt's offence. Those forearm cutoffs in particular looked really vicious and suited Wyatt's maniacal nature to a tee. Bryan flew about the place superbly (thought he had done the springboard dive to the floor at first glance given the angle he flew at), and things like the curb stomp and Wyatt biting the hand of Bryan to escape the Lebell Lock put over the vicious nature of the match. Tornado DDT was a nice spin on what I expected to be the running knee from the apron. The finish was as good a way to put over Wyatt, without hurting Bryan. Bray looks great for legitimately countering Bryan in swift, devasting fashion, whilst Bryan doesn't look bad because he was devastatingly stopped within seconds. That is how you book a finish designed to make the heel look strong, without having the face eat a completely clean/damaging loss.

Orton/Cena was horrendous I thought. There was no flow or transitions at all, and the whole match just seemed haphazardly layed out with them pretty much going from A-L at any given moment, with impactful spots just thrown out to get a reaction with the match not really building to anything. I do wonder how much the crowd reaction played in them seemingly moving into repetitive finisher trading, because that was woefully lazy and transparent to the point it resembled Cena/Rock II. I'm really beginning to wonder how they can justify sticking Orton in main events, because his character is just not connecting with the fans at all now and his style on top of that is making for very lax and ineffective main events. Cena has no excuse either, because he's too good at laying out an effective structure for a match to be as comically all over the place as that one was last night.

As for Bryan/the Rumble, it's just laughable now. They're apparently reluctant to push him further because he's not making enough money via PPV sales/merch in relation to his overness, which is pathetic. WWE business has been stagant since around 2010, they do the same ratings/buyrates typically bar the odd spike/drop here and there, so the idea Bryan needs to somehow spike ratings and buyrates is woefully naive. They should focus more on delivering a sustainable product to the core audience, and keep star attractions to a minimum to maximise their presence and make any return/match more special. Batista delivered a strong number on his return, which would be expected given the promotion that went into his return in addition to the natural intrigue of what direction his character would have when he returned. Amazing that when there's genuine surprise and intrigue that more people will watch, who'd have dreamt it? Bryan might not ever be a bonafide sensation at the box office, but there's no reason to suspect ANY active wrestler will be these days. There's too many variables, from the price, to the popularity/access to stream sites, to having full PPVs uploaded days after they air etc. There's just too many ways to follow the product without having to spend money on it, and the fact only a handful of active wrestlers generate any modicum of reaction outlines why many people will opt for watching for free.

The biggest issue lies in the fact WWE just don't want to take risks anymore. They're afraid to push someone like Bryan and see numbers drop marginally, when they believe sticking with Cena won't hurt them in the short term. It reaks of WCW's business mindset post NWO, with a luxury of established draws ensuring young talent struggled to be pushed consistently and elevated because it was seen as more of a risk, despite the clear warning signs that at some point those icons would diminish in value, and the younger talent would have to become more prominent. Bryan doesn't have to rival Austin/Rock numbers at their prime to generate money for the company and become an integral part of the product. He's managed to connect with every demographic WWE caters towards, as proven by his reactions being arena-wide, and not merely contained to more vocal markets.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Despite the crowd rejecting the last ten minutes of it. Who thought the rumble was one of the better ones in recent memory?

In terms of the work put into it by the guys. Reigns, Cesaro, Sheamus, Seth Rollins and CM Punk all worked very hard I thought.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Lost in all of this madness is Sheamus' fun return. Guy hasn't lost a step. I felt so bad for him because you could tell from his facial expressions last night that he thinks Bryan should have been out there.


He got a great pop when he came into the match. Like people were happy to see him. But nobody wanted him to win and he ended up getting booed. 


I loved Bryan/Wyatt. I'm thinking ****1/4-****1/2 for it. It took me on a roller coaster about the outcome. When the match first started and Bryan was kicking ass I was thinking that they might actually let Bryan squash him. Then Bray started working over Bryan's head and I became worried that there would be some BS finish where they stop the match for a concussion. And then I realized I was seeing a classic and I had no idea what would happen. It's an early MOTYC and when all is said and done I can still see it being a low end MOTYC. 

Show/Lesnar was terrible. It was cool when Brock wasn't hitting Big Show with a chair. Here's the thing with what I saw. Brock hit him with a chair like 30 times. But they were all kind of weak chair shots. One brutal chair shot probably would have been able to accomplish more then his 30 weak ones. 

Orton/Cena made me laugh but the match probably wasn't that bad. Orton actually did his best given the circumstances and they actually tried to make a story out of the crowd shitting all over the match. There were a few times during Orton's control segment where he would get annoyed at the crowd or try to taunt them and Cena would be able to get some offense in and tease a comeback. It was actually pretty clever because they made it clear that the crowd was getting to Orton. That being said the crowd wanted to ruin the match, they did, and it was hilarious. WWE has been forcing this feud for months and the fans finally informed everyone that they really do not give a single shit about it. 

Rumble was also pretty funny. I knew they were in trouble when Flair picked Batista to win the match and he got booed. The first half was actually pretty fun. JBL being in it made me laugh, El Torito was funny, Sheamus and Ziggler coming back was a lot of fun as well. Punk was pretty unimpressive in the number one spot and got totally outworked by Rollins who was in there for almost as long. Reigns was a beast as well and I loved Ambrose trying to eliminate him. The match was shaping up to be a really great match but the fans have decided who they want to main event Wrestlemania and it isn't Batista. He got put in a shitty situation but WWE really needs to know their fans and avoid putting their guys in situations like that. 


The one thing that I really took away from the show is that WWE really can't control who gets booed or cheered anymore. No control whatsoever. Batista was hyped up for a while and he was treated like this huge deal. He was calling out the heel champion and looked like a real threat to take the belt off someone that the fans don't like. But that wasn't enough to get him cheered because the fans don't want to see him in the title match and nothing that WWE does is going to change that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Forgot to mention how much Bray Wyatt impressed me last night with his work against Bryan, thought he was an absolute joy to watch and his character is actually fucking awesome. Shame on me for ever doubting him, and Cena Vs Wyatt sounds pretty fucking awesome now.

Ever since Wyatt debuted, I've gotten the feeling that he's supposed to be the next generation's larger than life character, ALA Undertaker & Andre the Giant. Those are some BIG fucking shoes to fill, but I sense a changing of the guard for the company with guys like Wyatt and Reigns ascending to heights that I never could have imagined a rookie would reach.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think Wyatt's performance last night necessarily indicates Cena/Wyatt will automatically deliver. Bryan bumped really hard for him, but Bryan also has a natural intensity and pace to his work that makes for a more frantic and violent spectacle, which really suits Wyatt's destructive and opportunistic offence. Bryan is no stranger to working snug and stiff, and Wyatt looked especially comfortable being able to throw more reckless and violent shots, with Bryan appropriately giving as good as he got. With Cena, he won't work nearly as snug as Bryan, and you have to question whether Cena can generate the same violent spectacle as Bryan can, given the difference in how both work. Cena will bump around fine, but the match won't have that same purpose and energy to it, and Cena's offence will obviously be different to Bryan's and alter the scope of the match more.

Point being, it could be good, but Cena is hit and miss these days and Wyatt is a character who I think will shine in rougher/violent matches with a sense of urgency to them (like the Bryan match), but could be exposed/struggle to impress in more standard matches. Cena/Harper however, could be quite super if that is booked.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I don't think Wyatt's performance last night necessarily indicates Cena/Wyatt will automatically deliver. Bryan bumped really hard for him, but Bryan also has a natural intensity and pace to his work that makes for a more frantic and violent spectacle, which really suits Wyatt's destructive and opportunistic offence. Bryan is no stranger to working snug and stiff, and Wyatt looked especially comfortable being able to throw more reckless and violent shots, with Bryan appropriately giving as good as he got. With Cena, he won't work nearly as snug as Bryan, and you have to question whether Cena can generate the same violent spectacle as Bryan can, given the difference in how both work. Cena will bump around fine, but the match won't have that same purpose and energy to it, and Cena's offence will obviously be different to Bryan's and alter the scope of the match more.
> 
> Point being, it could be good, but Cena is hit and miss these days and Wyatt is a character who I think will shine in rougher/violent matches with a sense of urgency to them (like the Bryan match), but could be exposed/struggle to impress in more standard matches. Cena/Harper however, could be quite super if that is booked.


I agree with this. As much as I enjoyed the opener last night and was pleasantly surprised with Wyatt's work in the match, it seemed Bryan made it pretty easy for him with the style he worked. The match came across as a war which I'm not convinced can be imitated with a Wyatt/Cena match. I'm not sure Wyatt's style will lend itself to the typical "WWE main event style" which Cena tends to wrestle. Also, consistency has always been an issue with Cena and as much as I like him, it's very rare I'll just assume one of his matches is going to be good, especially against someone who's unproven like Wyatt is.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed. I'm not taking anything away from Wyatt, as he looked impressive throwing those reckless and nasty looking strikes to floor Bryan, but at the end of the day cutoff spots will always look more violent when you've got someone like Bryan running 100mph off the ropes prior to taking the move. It's the same with Mysterio circa '05-10. He'd ragdoll and bump maniacally for everyone, but cutoff spots always looked more impressive on Mysterio because of the speed at which he'd take the move. Bryan's intense and consistently focused style allowed Wyatt to come off more vicious and destructive with his individual blows, but against Cena you'd expect a more relaxed pace and more holds to be applied to Cena, as opposed to Bryan who will turn himself inside and out for lariats etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I don't think Wyatt's performance last night necessarily indicates Cena/Wyatt will automatically deliver. Bryan bumped really hard for him, but Bryan also has a natural intensity and pace to his work that makes for a more frantic and violent spectacle, which really suits Wyatt's destructive and opportunistic offence. Bryan is no stranger to working snug and stiff, and Wyatt looked especially comfortable being able to throw more reckless and violent shots, with Bryan appropriately giving as good as he got. With Cena, he won't work nearly as snug as Bryan, and you have to question whether Cena can generate the same violent spectacle as Bryan can, given the difference in how both work. Cena will bump around fine, but the match won't have that same purpose and energy to it, and Cena's offence will obviously be different to Bryan's and alter the scope of the match more.
> 
> Point being, it could be good, but Cena is hit and miss these days and Wyatt is a character who I think will shine in rougher/violent matches with a sense of urgency to them (like the Bryan match), but could be exposed/struggle to impress in more standard matches. Cena/Harper however, could be quite super if that is booked.



I literally could not agree with the past 2 posts you've made anymore than I do. You really hit the nail on the head.

Orton/Cena was an absolute travesty of a match. It was Rock/Cena II with even more apathy. I have to believe that Cena called an audible to turn it into a finisher fest so the crowd would get distracted and quit shitting on them so obviously. I have to laugh at anyone who thinks that match "picked up towards the end". Are you serious? Since when is spamming and trading finishers considered "picking up"? Is that really how low standards have fallen? I know everyone hates the word psychology, but I am struggling to find a better recent example of a match totally lacking any form of psychology than that one. Nothing they did had any purpose, there was no sense of coherent structure or story, it was just two dudes running through their signature moves for the first 10 minutes then trading finishers for the last 5. It's the WWE style at its absolute worst. The only part I liked about that entire match was Cena countering into the Crossface, that's IT. That match wasn't wrestling, it was unsubstantiated "sports entertainment" fluff. Garbage. 1/4*

The Rumble itself was pretty uninspiring for me. The biggest disappointment was Punk. He spent 75% of that match just laying in the corner. The number 1 entrant is supposed to set the tone for the match that follows. Punk set a tone of apathy, and therefore the Rumble never really got kicked into gear. I will give it *** and that's only because of Sheamus, The Shield, and Zigglers insane spear bump. Without those factors it would struggle to garner even 1 star from me.

For what it was, Show/Lesnar got the job done. I'd sooner watch that match than any of the Lesnar/Triple H matches, and that's the gods honest truth. Still, it was awfully short sighted of WWE to go into an event knowing they were gonna piss fans off by screwing Bryan, and then to screw them again by advertising a real Lesnar match and instead giving them a 5 minute squash. If Show being injured was the reason it was cut short, they would have been better off finding a last minute replacement. It's not like anyone was paying to see Show, they wanted to see Lesnar. **3/4 from me.

Bryan vs Bray was easily the match of the night and also easily Bray Wyatt's best showing so far. I am hesitant to believe that Bray can create anywhere close to the same quality with an opponent like Cena. Bryan made that match go, as solid as Bray was, the reason that match was exciting and captivating was Danielson. I don't really have anything else to add that hasn't already been said, great, great match. ****

That's my final thoughts. Shame on WWE for showing such utter contempt for their paying customers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Cena/Wyatt is a no holds barred kind of affair, then it should be fantastic as Cena's going to bump for the guy and pull out some special stuff since it's Wrestlemania. 

If it's just going to be a regular singles, then bleh .

Okay so what the hell goes on last at Wrestlemania XXX? It obviously won't be Orton-Batista as they want to avoid another Wrestlemania XXV fiasco, and Cena-Wyatt just won't go on last, maybe we can get a crazy stipulation on HHH-Punk and make it the main event.

:brady3


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> If Cena/Wyatt is a no holds barred kind of affair, then it should be fantastic as Cena's going to bump for the guy and pull out some special stuff since it's Wrestlemania.
> 
> If it's just going to be a regular singles, then bleh .
> 
> ...



Did you just say it "obviously" won't be Orton/Batista? That implies that you think that WWE would learn from past mistakes, and I know you know better than that 

Seriously, I wouldn't put it past them AT ALL to decide "The WWE WHC needs to be the most important thing , Orton/Batista are going on last dammit" :vince3


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> If Cena/Wyatt is a no holds barred kind of affair, then it should be fantastic as Cena's going to bump for the guy and pull out some special stuff since it's Wrestlemania.
> 
> If it's just going to be a regular singles, then bleh .
> 
> ...


I don't even think NBH is necessarily the answer, if only because WWE have a poor track record when it comes to gimmick matches not descending into some contrived and quirky spots. I just think Bryan works a more frantic and energetic style that creates more captivating action, and showcases Wyatt's impactful offence far better than a typical WWE formula match which might see Wyatt resorting to more holds to pad out the match. Bryan's found a unique way to work longer matches but still avoid his opponent having to utilise restholds to segue the action, as proven last night as he threw himself about on the floor and in the ring to make Wyatt look imposing and destructive in short busts.

Given the immense reaction the match always gets, I do think WWE could be wise to put The Streak on last. It might be a bit anti-climatic, but at the same time bar Bryan and possibly Punk, no other match will generate the same enthusiasm and intrigue as The Streak. Obviously the outcome will be obvious, but is that any worse than the crowd being noticeably subdued for Batista/Orton or possibly HHH/Punk? If Bryan is in the title match somehow, they can probably put that on last since he'll be able to generate a strong atmosphere and a post match celebration would be a fitting way to close out Wrestlemania, not to mention with there being one title currently they might want to ensure the title match closes the show.

Batista/Orton cannot main event though, it will die a painful death and the fans will not tolerate it. I get wanting to preserve the legacy of the title, but at the same time an arena shitting on your title match so noticeably in the final match on the card does far more to discredit the title, as opposed to having one or two matches follow it and allow the crowd to generate an atmosphere that might hide the apathy that's met for the title match.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Astounding to see how quick of a backlash Batista got. 

Knew it was coming though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He did himself no favours by being noticeably gassed so early, to the point he could barely contribute to spots or even celebrate the victory, instead having to awkwardly catch his breath and 'sell' the wear and tear, whilst Cole tried to exclaim the significance of the victory.

Bryan really is the centre of the backlash though. Batista has the misfortune of being a veteran who has already had his time, as well as being perceived as 'what a star should be like'. For Bryan fans, or even fans just tired of the same formulaic booking pattern, Batista represents the antiquated mindset of what the fans SHOULD want, instead of what they ACTUALLY want. In essence, a hard-working individual like Bryan just lost his perfect culmination of an angle for a 45 year old man whose been absent for four years, and who looked noticeably off the pace and a far-cry from what you'd expect out of a professional.

Batista was also a very plain and uninspiring babyface, so again I'm pretty sure people wanting him to return were hoping for the reinvigorated heel Batista, as opposed to the plodding babyface they were treated to for years prior. If he goes heel he might redeem himself somewhat to a portion of the fans, but if they try and sell him as the fans' choice it's just going to get truly ugly because the fans are accustomed now to voicing their displeasure openly.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Rumble was just so awkward even after some great performances.. WWE is blind.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

@WOOLCOCK


True and valid points, but the crowd didnt care for him from the start tbh. His performance was a factor but his mere name got booed when Flair mentioned it earlier. Tista could have given a five star showing and he still would have gotten backlash. His return from RAW didn't do him any good either. Plus, the guy just isnt a top tier superstar.

So yeah, Bryan is pretty much the root and cause of this I guess.

Might be a slightly different story if Batista returned as a surprise at #30 though, I dont know. Was going to take a really big name and someone with a lot of respect, love and admiration to enter at #30 and the crowd accept it. Taker/Rock/Austin/maybe even Hogan etc.

Agreed on Bryan though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> He did himself no favours by being noticeably gassed so early, to the point he could barely contribute to spots or even celebrate the victory, instead having to awkwardly catch his breath and 'sell' the wear and tear, whilst Cole tried to exclaim the significance of the victory.
> 
> Bryan really is the centre of the backlash though. Batista has the misfortune of being a veteran who has already had his time, as well as being perceived as 'what a star should be like'. For Bryan fans, or even fans just tired of the same formulaic booking pattern, Batista represents the antiquated mindset of what the fans SHOULD want, instead of what they ACTUALLY want. In essence, a hard-working individual like Bryan just lost his perfect culmination of an angle for a 45 year old man whose been absent for four years, and who looked noticeably off the pace and a far-cry from what you'd expect out of a professional.
> 
> Batista was also a very plain and uninspiring babyface, so again I'm pretty sure people wanting him to return were hoping for the reinvigorated heel Batista, as opposed to the plodding babyface they were treated to for years prior. If he goes heel he might redeem himself somewhat to a portion of the fans, but if they try and sell him as the fans' choice it's just going to get truly ugly because the fans are accustomed now to voicing their displeasure openly.




Agreed. I think if Batista had come out in full "animal" mode and destroyed people with spine busters, batista bombs, and spears, the reaction would have been a lot different. If he had come out and straight OWNED for 15 minutes to close the Rumble, the boo's might not have been so bad. Even if the fans were disappointed Bryan wasn't in it, seeing a muscular freak of nature like Batista destroy people could distract even the most ardent Bryan fan. People weren't gonna be happy with Batista winning and Bryan not even in the Rumble, period, but Dave could have mitigated the damage by bothering to be in top form. He should have been down at the Performance Center for the past 4 months training with the rookies and getting into ring shape before signing that big deal. This is all WWE's fault too, they have a responsibility to make sure a guy can actually wrestle for 2 minutes without blowing up before they send him out and feed him to the wolves.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> @WOOLCOCK
> 
> 
> True and valid points, but the crowd didnt care for him from the start tbh. His performance was a factor but his mere name got booed when Flair mentioned it earlier. Tista could have given a five star showing and he still would have gotten backlash. His return from RAW didn't do him any good either. Plus, the guy just isnt a top tier superstar.
> ...


Pretty much. As a face he was never really that interesting, and relied on working with truly great performers to have stronger matches than you'd reasonably expect from him. Now he's older, more sluggish and is rehashing a 2009 feud 5 years later, all at the expense of someone more hard-working and suited to the audience's tastes in Bryan.

I'm pretty sure Batista winning either way wouldn't have gone down well, but I agree returning at the rumble either announced/unannounced might have gotten him a better initial reaction. Had he still win though, with Bryan either eliminated/not involved, I still think the backlash would have been noticeable. However, given the fact he returned the week before and they positioned Orton/Batista as a likely plan, I think it pre-empted a voiceful rejection on the part of the fans if Bryan was cast aside, and of course Batista's abject performance did nothing to win over the mood of the fans when they realised Bryan wasn't going to win the Rumble, with Batista all but confirmed as the winner by default.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So the Rumble PPV is a damp squib pretty much then. I did bother to spend time DL'ing it too lol. Ill have to see what i think, what was Brock/Show like?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> So the Rumble PPV is a damp squib pretty much then. I did bother to spend time DL'ing it too lol. Ill have to see what i think, what was Brock/Show like?


5 minute squash that proved by point that Brock is entertaining doing literally ANYTHING. Wasn't great or even all that good, but it was still BROCK being BROCK.

The Danielson/Wyatt match is must watch. Fabulous. Orton/Cena is the worst match I've seen in a few years, and the Rumble itself could best be described as "average". Not good, not bad, average.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of Brock's PPV appearances was a squash. Just hope he has better at EC.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

:ti :ti enaldoenaldo

...I can understand wanting Wyatt to look strong for John Cena at WrestleMania by having him win, I can understand doing Cena/Orton again at the Rumble seeing as neither had a clear direction to head in, I can even understand that you might not want Bryan to win the Rumble match.

BUT!

I can't understand the logic of WWE trying to brush Bryan under the carpet by not even having him as a participant in the match ironically because they probably thought if he was in the match the crowd would cheer him louder than the eventual winner so if we don't include him the crowd would magically forget Bryan exists and not realize he didn't enter because that will work right?bama3

im going to WrestleMania and im not even the biggest Bryan fan! I do like him though (I mean who doesn't at this point aside from one or two individuals clearly :hhh2:vince) but a PPV which is regarded as 'the start of the road to WrestleMania' to end on that note, with basically everyone either deflated or not really interested to begin with just shows how out of touch WWE are right now. 

RAW Tonight will be a blast, maybe WWE should tape RAW too now so they can pipeout those Bryan chants and add "Ba-tis-aa!"


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I hated Brock/Show, made no sense and took forever


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> One of Brock's PPV appearances was a squash. Just hope he has better at EC.




I'm 99% certain this isn't counting as a PPV appearance. He will still be at Chamber, Mania, and Summerslam. Don't quote me on that but I thought I read somewhere it was in his dates for the year to do those 3 events plus the Rumble. If this was really gonna count as a Brock appearance, I'm sure they would have gotten a substitute for the injured Big Show. It's not like one single fan was paying to see Show, everyone wanted to see Brock.

That's why this event was such a failure. Like Battleground and Night of Champions, it seemed like the events entire purpose was for Vince McMahon to extend a giant middle finger to all us fans :vince2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Couldn't be arsed to grab the Pre-Show, but are the NAO the new Tag Champs lol?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad&#153;;29270353 said:


> I hated Brock/Show, made no sense and took forever




I LOVED IT!  wonder if shows injury had something to do with it?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I felt really bad for posting that Mike when I watched it. Nobody should have believed he was ever winning though. Fat Kid video is probably so obviously worked but parts of it were amusing anyway. I really hope the chick isn't his girlfriend because she has a really cut voice I would probably fall in love with if I watched more of them videos.

NAO winning titles in 2014 (or ever really) is so depressing. We all know why they got them. Cody and Dustin had a really awesome thing going and they're gonna stop it because they're clueless. I think Goldust eliminated Cody in the Rumble but they barely caught or mentioned it. Oh well. At least Goldust got a great half year I suppose.

Bryan/Bray was super. Maybe a top 5 Bryan match in WWE. No intended hyperbole. Bray obviously won't have a match that good with just about anyone else but he more than held his own and added his own value to the match. Keep him away from Kane's and he'll do well. I really wish Bryan was allowed to just be a pissed off grump more often. Curb Stomp was amazing even if the camera shot of it wasn't. Bryan's initial workover was really good and full of vengeance. I bet some geeks will complain about the leg not being a factor after but I thought they worked it fine as it being a ***** in Bray's armour rather than a big weakness. Plus it's not like Bryan really went to town on it. I guess more could have been done after but it didn't hurt the match so who cares. Bray's offence is really fresh which stands out extra on a roster of really stale or repeated movesets. Really strong comeback segment and the finish was magnificent and extra magnificent for how seamless they pulled it off. Everytime I imagine it in my head I imagine Bryan doing this really slow easy to catch dive that oversized Indy guys to because it's what Indy guys have to do now but if anything it looked like Bryan put more velocity on the dive than normal and Bray still caught him perfectly. Sucks that Bryan lost but I can live with it when we get a match this strong. Bray kinda had to win, especially if they're preparing him for Cena but really Bryan should never have been demoted to that spot at this point. It really should have been Punk because Punk's done nothing lately and is at the point where a loss like this wouldn't have hurt him one bit. Losing probably actually gets Bryan over more in a rebellious sense but it's all for nothing and it's heartbreaking that the hope for Bryan will probably never fade out.

Didn't watch Cena/Orton and I have no desire too after reading this thread. "We want Divas" amused me at least. I like Bray and it's pretty cool that he's probably working Cena at Wrestlemania but on the other hand it's really sucky because what has he really done to deserve it? The decision was obviously made before the Bryan match so that doesn't count. They do this all the time with new characters who end up being Vince's flavour of the month but god it's so shitty on the guys who bust their assess for a year and get over but lose out like this because of basically one man's opinion and his inner circle of yes men. Cena is still capable of producing good stuff although it's become rarer and rarer. The WWE style overexposing the same finisher fest finishes has hurt him a lot because that's basically become his style now due to his constant position at the top of the card. I don't see him and Bray being a great match though at Mania. Don't see people buying Bray as a serious threat to Cena either.

Lesnar/Show should have been used as a Raw main event to pop a rating because aside from a Lesnar appearance it was useless. I'm so over Lesnar being used as a the generic pro wrestling heel because he's basically the only guy in the entire industry who's above that. He should just be the guy who comes in as and when he likes and plays the baddest man on the planet gimmick which is basically just being himself. Plus nobody wants to boo Brock because again, he's above generic pro wrestling heel. This company is stupid though and barely gets anything right these days unless it's out of Vince and co's radar. Went on way too long too though. Could have been great to draw heat for someone like Ryback if he wasn't beyond repair but it does nothing for Brock because of who he is. This was really a waste of everyone's time if we're being honest.

Rumble Match in the middle was fun but it suffered from high predictability and WWE seemingly trying to just turn fans away. Batista winning returned me about £100 but I still didn't care one bit when he won. That final 4 sucked bad. I couldn't even really get behind Reigns winning because it's nowhere near his time to do that so it was lose lose as soon as Rey came out as #30. Sucked to be Rey too. They've fucked the #30 spot up for year after year now it seems. Tease fans with a big last entrant and then some geek comes out and they lose the crowd because they don't meet their expectations which aren't exactly unrealistic either. I really hope The Shield "work through their issues" and don't split before Mania. They're lost in the shuffle already and for Reigns to have the best chance of being the star he can be he needs to split and break straight out into the main event. I don't normally like that route for new guys because he's not exactly new new and they need to strike while he's at his hottest which is nowhere near where he is right now. Nash being the only outsider surprise was underwhelming. I thought Nash/Reigns was gonna be cool for a second but it wasn't. Looked like Nash tried to hold onto the ropes but forget to tell one half of his body and he ended up splitting his body in two and probably pulling about 5 different muscles. Called Cesaro's run. Which sucks because it confirms that's how WWE sees him which is basically a one trick midcard pony. He had some awesome stances though where he'd stand in the middle of the ring and look around like he was ready for COMBAT. Cesaro rules. Thus he can't be pushed. Dorada cameo ruled. I'd honestly rather watch him than 95% of the roster right now. Punk was probably happier than Batista was when he won when he found out he could take a hurracanrana from Dorada. That and getting to dropkick Cesaro's swing ala KOW. The difference between Ryback in this year's Rumble and last year's is really outstanding. Axel wasn't even in it iirc. The same guy who was getting fake cheap wins over Triple H less than a year ago. Outstanding. Sheamus return was alright. WWE seem to keep putting him in positions where the fans will boo him regardless though and that really sucks for him. Rollins I felt really bad for. Dude just wanted everyone to be friends and got eliminated for it. Poor kid. Reigns breaking the eliminations record and lasting until the final 2 was a cool rub for him. Mike, are you higher on Reigns after this show? I really hope they don't rush him and fuck this up. It's hard to take Kane seriously (besides the obvious) when Cole calls him Corporate Kane at every chance. I'd laugh if they go all the way to Mania with Punk/Kane. I'm assuming it's just a stepping stone to Punk/Hunter but they built some serious heat up for Punk/Kane here. Watch Hunter decide he doesn't need to wrestle anymore and not let alone take his heat. Kofi spot was actually impressive and better than that shithole from last year. Is Miz a babyface again? Pathetic. JBL cameo was decent but also a waste. I really wanted him to clothesline someone. His call after was great though and the first time since his return I've liked commentator JBL. Rusev looked really fucking good. Big E looked like a making the numbers up geek. Someone had a "Let's Go Jimmy Uso (Or is that Jey)" sign which was probably a top 3 highlight of the Rumble. That Foley quote is perfect too.

So it seems like
Orton/Batista
Lesnar/Taker
Cena/Bray

are all a lock now. Punk/Hunter probably is too. Apparently Bryan is facing Sheamus now. Could be worse. It's amusing that it'd be their 3rd Mania match yet they're still to have a proper match at Mania. Card is pathetic btw no matter how you look at it.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Funny thing about all this is that the event, match quality wise, blows away the last FOUR RR events :lmao.

Might start my RR 2014 Ramble. Not sure if I'll do it all tonight, because it'll be hard for me to get the motivation to watch the WWEWHC match, but I look forward to watching Bryan/Wyatt again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll be rewatching the Rumble in a minute, and will post my thoughts on it later.

If you're expecting praise from anything par Bryan/Bray I'm sorry


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly, I have no fucking idea what to say anymore.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think at this point the only way the Mania crowd won't shit on the main event is for Bryan to be added or to have him face Taker (which seems unlikely given BROCK is all but a lock to face Taker, unless BROCK is in the title match @ Mania).


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

going by silly reports and how things are shaping up.

Brock/Taker
Punk/HHH (lol yeah right) Kane
Bryan/Sheamus (lol)
Cena/Bray
Batista/Orton

Not feeling it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk/Trips is a lock for Mania now imo. Punk'll face Kane at EC to then go on and face the leader.
Batista/Orton - :lmao what the fuck are they thinking, this surely can't close WM 30.
Cena/Bray - Poor Bray


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan/Sheamus wouldn't be a bad match (though I think face Sheamus vs heel Bryan is the strongest pairing for the match to work to its fullest), and could probably be very good-great. The problem is that its not the payoff/match Bryan deserves at Wrestlemania, and secondly knowing WWE there's no guarantee they'd even give the match the required time to be anything more than a fine sub fifthteen minute affair.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have zero interest in Taker/Bryan if that were to ever happen. 

I'm hoping WWE is taking the Chris Benoit path here with Bryan. I'm hoping they do Batista/Orton/Bryan at Mania. Maybe, for some reason, they still don't have enough confidence in Bryan's drawing ability so they have Batista and Orton in there to boost the buyrate. 

But on another note, how does Reigns/Taker sound to you guys?


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Bryan/Sheamus wouldn't be a bad match (though I think face Sheamus vs heel Bryan is the strongest pairing for the match to work to its fullest), and could probably be very good-great. The problem is that its not the payoff/match Bryan deserves at Wrestlemania, and secondly knowing WWE there's no guarantee they'd even give the match the required time to be anything more than a fine sub fifthteen minute affair.


It just feels so meh though he deserves so much better, just HHH wanting to garner some heat for his Workout buddy on the most over guy on the roster. As you said it be a 15 minute good match with Sheamus going over just to bury Bryan more. You know it will all be about sheamus beating Bryan at WM28 in 18 seconds and that Bryan won't beat him crap as per usual. So disappointing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Bryan/Sheamus wouldn't be a bad match (though I think face Sheamus vs heel Bryan is the strongest pairing for the match to work to its fullest), and could probably be very good-great. The problem is that its not the payoff/match Bryan deserves at Wrestlemania, and secondly knowing WWE there's no guarantee they'd even give the match the required time to be anything more than a fine sub fifthteen minute affair.



Really? I would think a heel nasty Sheamus vs the super over face Bryan would be the best dynamic. If they go straight face/face it could end up being rather bland and watered down. I've always felt Sheamus would be best as a heel because he just looks so ridiculous that it's hard for fans to really get behind him as a hero. He's another guy who should he in tights and not trunks. Sheamus could be a great poor mans Finlay if they just really allow him to let his nastiness out in the ring. Bryan could be the perfect guy to turn him full blown heel.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> But on another note, how does Reigns/Taker sound to you guys?


Wait you rather not have Bryan in the ring with Taker and them having a Wrestlemania classic but a Guy who's green as shit who's been made look great by top hands to face a wrestling legend. Come on man you know it would stink. Reigns needs a slow push to the top cause if they do a Sheamus to him the fan's will shit on him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Bryan/Sheamus wouldn't be a bad match (though I think face Sheamus vs heel Bryan is the strongest pairing for the match to work to its fullest), and could probably be very good-great. The problem is that its not the payoff/match Bryan deserves at Wrestlemania, and secondly knowing WWE there's no guarantee they'd even give the match the required time to be anything more than a fine sub fifthteen minute affair.


It would be a fine match no doubt, but on top of what you said about it not being the payoff Bryan deserves, the match has taken place (somewhat) at two of the last three Manias.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I have zero interest in Taker/Bryan if that were to ever happen.
> 
> I'm hoping WWE is taking the Chris Benoit path here with Bryan. I'm hoping they do Batista/Orton/Bryan at Mania. Maybe, for some reason, they still don't have enough confidence in Bryan's drawing ability so they have Batista and Orton in there to boost the buyrate.
> 
> But on another note, how does Reigns/Taker sound to you guys?


I chuckled at 'adding Orton to boost the buyrate' tbh.

No real desire to see Taker/Reigns. Reigns has great offence and is exemplary at selling his opponent's offence in a way that puts him over as a tough SOB. That being said, the Streak commands certain expectations in terms of match quality (misguided in the case of Taker/HHH x2 but whatevah on that) and I don't think Reigns is ready for such a spotlight, especially as the match would be around twenty minutes or more.



hardyorton said:


> It just feels so meh though he deserves so much better, just HHH wanting to garner some heat for his Workout buddy on the most over guy on the roster. As you said it be a 15 minute good match with Sheamus going over just to bury Bryan more. You know it will all be about sheamus beating Bryan at WM28 in 18 seconds and that Bryan won't beat him crap as per usual. So disappointing.


I don't really want it either, just saying in terms of match quality there are far worse matches Bryan could be placed in. Of course he deserves better and really should be positioned to come out of Wrestlemania looking like a million bucks, but at some point you have to understand Vince & co have their own preconceptions and their stubborn nature knows no bounds.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oops for the DP.



Cactus Jack said:


> Really? I would think a heel nasty Sheamus vs the super over face Bryan would be the best dynamic. If they go straight face/face it could end up being rather bland and watered down. I've always felt Sheamus would be best as a heel because he just looks so ridiculous that it's hard for fans to really get behind him as a hero. He's another guy who should he in tights and not trunks. Sheamus could be a great poor mans Finlay if they just really allow him to let his nastiness out in the ring. Bryan could be the perfect guy to turn him full blown heel.


I think Sheamus is infinitely better as a face worker than a heel. His best heel performance was in the Ladder match vs Morrison, but aside from that I never found his control segments and general work that engaging. As a face, he works from underneath very well, sells and bumps well for his opponents and puts together good comebacks with generally varied offence. Bryan's a fine babyface, but I'd be shocked if heel Sheamus vs face Bryan eclipsed their 2/3 falls match. Just seems like Bryan's submission and control segment skills match up better as Sheamus is a fine babyface foil, whereas Sheamus felt lacking as a heel working on top.



The Lady Killer said:


> It would be a fine match no doubt, but on top of what you said about it not being the payoff Bryan deserves, the match has taken place (somewhat) at two of the last three Manias.


Yep, so it's hardly a marquee match and the Wrestlemania history suggests their chances of getting any significant time are next to none. Bryan deserves better no doubt, because he should be positioned suitably given the exposure and promotion going into the event. It should be about showcasing the past icons, whilst highlighting the emergence of the new generation and trying to keep nostalgic viewers around to track the progress of Bryan, Punk & The Shield.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's going to get real uncomfortable @ Mania if they go through with Bryan/Sheamus.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

As Seabs alluded to, they really have a shocking record in terms of placing Sheamus in situations geared to have the fans turning against him. Making him a jocular and terribly cheesy face who barely ever got his comeuppance in segments/matches was bad enough, but positioning him against Bryan with the fans begging for Bryan to either be in the title match, or at the very least gain a semblance of revenge against HHH would just be moronic. I do feel for Sheamus, because he's a fine worker who is sadly saddled with a terrible character and is written to be as unlikeable as you can get.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Correct on all fronts. Crowd was happy to see him back last night, and he looked great, but that was when there was still a glimmer of hope that Bryan would be a surprise last-minute entry in the Rumble match. Poor guy can't catch a break as far as his booking/character is concerned.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> It would be a fine match no doubt, but on top of what you said about it not being the payoff Bryan deserves, the match has taken place (somewhat) at two of the last three Manias.


It's a feud that would be fine for Bryan if he has a good title reign, something for the lesser PPV's cause both men can have great matches together.
It's nothing agaisn't Sheamus it just feels so lacklustre for WM30. It feels like Vince and HHH just don't have a clue what to do with Bryan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oops for the DP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agree to disagree then. I just think no matter what Sheamus will be fighting up hill if he's a face. He's never overtaking Bryan, Cena, and Punk, but the heel side of the ledger for full timers is wide open. I agree Sheamus is a fine worker as a face, but there is more to being a great baby face than just ring work. You really have to have the fans behind you or everything you do becomes meaningless. Sheamus can take most of what makes him a good worker as a face and take it to the dark side. I'm glad you pointed out the JoMo Ladder match, as that match is what I look to as the ideal for a heel Sheamus.

You're right though, with the current face/face dynamic there is no way in hell they are topping the 2/3 falls match. Sheamus being a heel with a red hot Bryan is the only way I can see them topping the greatness they had at Extreme Rules. Sheamus doing wicked cut off spots and bludgeoning Bryan to pieces already has me excited.

If Bryan isn't gonna be in a match for the WWE title or facing Lesnar or Taker, then the best option for him is to steal the show. The 3 guys he can accomplish that with are Punk, Cesaro, and Sheamus.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Felt bad for Mysterio too. I know they were booing the lack of Bryan, rather than Mysterio specifically, but it really is unfair on Mysterio given the level of consistency in his work the past decade, on top of the fact he's never been positioned alongside Cena, Batista or Orton for a significant period of time. Prior to the push post Eddie's death, he'd been trapped in the midcard trading wins and losses with a number of people, and even during his reign he was barely protected. Afterwards, he feuded with the likes of Finlay, Kane and went after the IC title, and it wasn't until 2010 where he became more protected in terms of wins/losses, and even then it was in midcard programs with Punk and later Cody.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I mean anyone other than Bryan was mostly fucked in that position. Fans just weren't going to accept anything less. It definitely is sad for Rey, given his work over the years. TBH, he doesn't appear nearly as over in this current comeback, but it doesn't excuse being booed out of the building. Not his fault, really, but it is what it is.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I mean anyone other than Bryan was mostly fucked in that position. Fans just weren't going to accept anything less. It definitely is sad for Rey, given his work over the years. TBH, he doesn't appear nearly as over in this current comeback, but it doesn't excuse being booed out of the building. Not his fault, really, but it is what it is.


Yep, madness on WWE's part to send him out there. I can only imagine they felt Mysterio was loved enough to not be massacred by the crowd, not realising the full extent of the adulation for Bryan.

Btw, you see Zeb's signs last night? Absolutely amazing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yes :lmao

Just awesome.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

It's really sad that people are overlooking a awesome match Bryan got out of Bray. Really wonderful stuff. Yeah he lost clean but they can give him back a win on Raw or something just to even things out. The only time during the night "This is Awesome" chant happened and the only time the crowd seemed involved.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yes :lmao
> 
> Just awesome.


There was a great backstage fallout segment from the Raw after Zeb was punched by Show, featuring some wonderful OTT acting from Zeb to sell the punch. I wish they'd run with him being confined to the chair to seel the ordeal, because wrestling and eccentric heels usually produces strong results.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this, the chants during Orton/Cena:

Those chants in full:

0:00 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 0:33- 'Lets Go Cena! Cena Sucks!' 1:05- 'Daniel Bryan!' & a small 'YES!', 2:15- 'We Want Daniel!', 2:42 'Randy Savage!', 3:28 'Y2J!', 4:02 - 'Undertaker!', 4:40 - 'Boring!', 5:58 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 6:56- 'You Both Suck!', 10:23 - a (very small) Mexican Wave starts, 13:10 - 'End This Match!', 15:00 - 'This Is Awful!', 16:23 - 'We Want Refunds!', post-match - 'Thank You Wyatts!'


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, it really was unfortunate what happened to Rey. But iirc, the fans cheered when he was eliminated. That was just unnecessary. It's one thing to boo him cause he was number 30 and not Bryan but to actually cheer his elimination? What the hell did he do? That was just making things personal. 

2014 is gonna be one hell of a ride for WWE. Things can't get any more fucked up than they are now, but oh wait, they will. With The Shield potentially splitting up, you have to ask what fuckery they have in plan for the individual members. No doubt Reigns is gonna be the star. They put him with Ambrose and Rollins so that they could hide flaws and for him to learn from them as well. I've been saying since day one that The Shield is only protection for Reigns and to get him over. Not that I have a problem with Reigns becoming the big star from the trio, but at the same time Ambrose and Rollin and valuable talents and their overness shouldn't also be denied. Then again it seems as if that's been the theme lately.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Rey being #30 probably wasn't a coincidence if you believe the stories that Vince doesn't like him all that much these days.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rey was #30 because WWE said "Rey wont get booed, so send him at 30"

that backfired :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

hardyorton said:


> It's really sad that people are overlooking a awesome match Bryan got out of Bray. Really wonderful stuff. Yeah he lost clean but they can give him back a win on Raw or something just to even things out. The only time during the night "This is Awesome" chant happened and the only time the crowd seemed involved.


I don't think anyone is overlooking that match. It's receiving near-universal praise from what I've seen. Both did their parts in the match, but as WOOLCOCK has so eloquently stated, Bryan's pacing and intense nature are tailor made for Wyatt to look as good as he did.



WOOLCOCK said:


> There was a great backstage fallout segment from the Raw after Zeb was punched by Show, featuring some wonderful OTT acting from Zeb to sell the punch. I wish they'd run with him being confined to the chair to seel the ordeal, because wrestling and eccentric heels usually produces strong results.


Yeah, Zeb is typically gold in everything he does. It's a shame they can't run with it and push Cesaro with Zeb as his mouthpiece.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think everyone is overreacting about Rey getting boo'd. I don't think there are very many, if any guys more respected and beloved in the WWE than Rey. He knows how much love and respect the fans have for him. He's been a life long good guy, in my opinion the best pure baby face ever, so he's never been booed like that before. I'm betting he was laughing about it backstage, as he's never experienced what it's like to be a hated heel before.

I love Rey as much as anyone, I just think you guys are underselling his self esteem. He knows who he is, he knows how good he is, and he knows the fans think he's one of the greatest of all time. He can take a little booing without letting it get to him, it's not like fans were hurling cups of hot piss and bags of fecal matter. It was just booing, and he's smart enough to know the booing was 100% about Bryan getting screwed and not fans being upset with Rey.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm just really sad and disappointed that we won't get to see The Shield vs. The Wyatts go absolutely nuts at Mania. _Horrendous_ error.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I'm just really sad and disappointed that we won't get to see The Shield vs. The Wyatts go absolutely nuts at Mania. _Horrendous_ error.


:kobe 

There was much worse errors imo


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Batista/Orton is going to get shit on so hard if Bryan isn't in a main event


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With all the talent they have at this moment, and with it being WM30, the rumored WM card is very annoying. Brock/Taker i am all for if we cant get Cena/Taker, but the rest at this stage - meh TBH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I was super hyped for Mania about a month ago, but it's almost as if they're conjuring up the worst possible card out of all the talent that will be involved.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some light relief, latest upload:

*Owen Hart vs. Pegasus Kid (Handheld Footage - April 1991) - From Japan*

x1af1c6


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
This somehow managed to exceed my expectations. I say somehow because I only just watched it after seeing everybody throw **** at it but wow, I loved it. I'm right there with Seabs calling it a top 5 WWE match for Bryan. I'd put it above any of his singles matches from 2013, even Cena/Bryan. It goes without saying that it's Bray's best match to this point and he added a heck of a lot to it. Wasn't a DB carry job by any means. Both guys bumped wonderfully and produced a vicious, brutal nature to the match with a ton of aggression and intensity behind their strikes and impact moves. Wyatt's character work was awesome throughout and he really came out of this looking like a million bucks. Wyatt biting Bryan to get out of the Yes Lock was great but there was also a moment I haven't seen mentioned where immediately after Wyatt yanked Bryan down to the apron and to the outside he seemed to be punching his own leg to get some feeling back into it or whatever. Thought that was a totally cool touch. Didn't mind Bray's ability to shake off the leg injury at all. Marked out for the flying tornado DDT and that COLOSSAL clothesline. The finish was incredible. Beautifully executed and if you're gonna have the hottest guy in the company go down clean then that's the way to do it. Fantastic match. I'll be surprised if there's a better PPV opener in 2014. LISTED!



Spoiler: dat list



1. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't notice Bray taking a page out of Foley's book a la Mind Games by trying to get feeling back in his leg. Makes it even better. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Didn't notice Bray taking a page out of Foley's book a la Mind Games by trying to get feeling back in his leg. Makes it even better. :mark:


The camera didn't focus on it. Pretty sure that's what he was doing though.

I also thought of Foley when Bray did the steel steps bump early in the match.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> :kobe
> 
> There was much worse errors imo


No need for the obnoxious Kobe smiley sir. Two of the hottest factions going today, and a potential war is just ignored. Match sells itself. But yeah it's an error lost in a sea of errors.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Some light relief, latest upload:
> 
> *Owen Hart vs. Pegasus Kid (Handheld Footage - April 1991) - From Japan*
> 
> x1af1c6


I know it's a longshot, but ProFightDB says that the night before this, Owen Hart went up against Finlay, I don't suppose you have that, do you?

I'll jump straight on this match though, seeing as I'm going on an Owen binge  Cheers


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lesnar/Show was such a waste. Really wanted to see them work a proper match.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Seabs said:


> *Rey being #30 probably wasn't a coincidence if you believe the stories that Vince doesn't like him all that much these days.*



That's a good point. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Batista didn't come out at 30.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> I know it's a longshot, but ProFightDB says that the night before this, Owen Hart went up against Finlay, I don't suppose you have that, do you?
> 
> I'll jump straight on this match though, seeing as I'm going on an Owen binge  Cheers


Na sorry mate i don't. I do however have this one:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

lol rumble.

This is all.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Brock/Taker
Cena/Wyatt
Batista/Orton
Punk/HHH
Bryan/Sheamus
Ryback/Warrior
Goldust/Cody
Where's that leave the Shield?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;29278321 said:


> Brock/Taker
> Cena/Wyatt
> Batista/Orton
> Punk/HHH
> ...


The Shield could split between now and Mania and have a triple threat.

Thing is, looking at that potential card, it's actually a very good card on paper, top to bottom. It just leaves a sour taste in the mouth because of how much better it could be with the players they have at their disposal. HHH/Punk and Lesnar/Taker are big time matches and worthy of WrestleMania. Batista/Orton and Bryan/Sheamus aren't bad at all as standalone matches but compared to Bryan winning the title or Bryan/HHH they just aren't acceptable.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> The Shield could split between now and Mania and have a triple threat.
> 
> Thing is, looking at that potential card, it's actually a very good card on paper, top to bottom. It just leaves a sour taste in the mouth because of how much better it could be with the players they have at their disposal. HHH/Punk and Lesnar/Taker are big time matches and worthy of WrestleMania. Batista/Orton and Bryan/Sheamus aren't bad at all as standalone matches but compared to Bryan winning the title or Bryan/HHH they just aren't acceptable.


I'm with you, it's gonna be just like last night where everything is good to acceptable but the aftertaste isn't good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I would be fine with Batista/Orton if it wasn't for the title. Put that somewhere in the middle of the card and it's all good but as the first ever WWE World Heavyweight Championship match at WrestleMania, at WM30 of all Manias, nah that's awful. No one cares about Orton and no one wants to see Batista win the title, not when it could be Bryan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2014 Royal Rumble

Oh boy. The event that is getting talked about more than probably any show since the invention of the internet... and not for anything good!

Match 1 - Daniel Bryan Vs Bray Wyatt. Ahh Daniel Bryan. How fucking OVER is this guy? It's pretty fucking incredible. Haven't really been into this whole Wyatt feud, but hey, Bryan has remained over as fuck, and probably becoming MORE over (especially after that cage match), so it's been tolerable for crowd reactions alone lol. Went into the match not expecting much, and watching live I was surprised as hell, so I'm very much looking forward to re-watching this one! Match feels very much like a FIGHT, with Bray wanting to beat the hell out of Bryan for turning his back on the family, and Bryan just wanting some good old fashioned revenge. Harper and Rowan getting sent to the back and Bray saying "I don't need you to fight this WAR for me" sums everything up perfectly, because these two go to fucking war. Lots of stiff looking offence from both guys, combined with Bryan bumping around like a champ for Bray. Can't say I've cared for Bray in the ring before, but damn he looked great here. Being in the ring with Bryan likely helped a lot, but Bray was great at making the match look like a fight and incorporating his character into the match. Irked me a little that Bray shrugged off the leg work from Bryan the moment he got in full control, but at the same time it didn't bother me too much, if that makes any sense. Bray was so splendid in control that I didn't care if he sold the leg longer or not. SPLASH TO THE HEAD~! RIGHT INTO THE RINGPOST~! Nice of them to work the recent concussion to Bryan into the match. Did they even mention that on TV btw? It was mentioned here after Bryan got squashed into the ring post but I don't remember if it was brought up on Raw or anything. Another thing I really liked about the match is how Bray didn't stick to just one body part. He gets control of the match by slamming Bryan arm first onto the apron. Then he squashes his head into the ring post. Then he attacks the mid-section. Normally I'd complain that whoever was in control was all over the place and confused about what they are doing, but it seems to work in Bray's favour given his character. He's a crazy psychopath who wants to HURT Bryan no matter what. PLUS you have Bryan refusing to just stay down and constantly makes little comeback attempts that force Bray to cut him off in different ways, so he doesn't always have the TIME to focus on one part of the body without Bryan coming back at him. The head does eventually become more of a focal point though, mainly because of Bray's finisher and the fact he uses it on the outside into the barricade which was fucking AWESOME. "WHY DIDN'T YOU HELP HIM?" Was a great line from Bray to the fans, who all just sat there and watched as he crushed the guy's head into the ring post then splashed him. If they truly loved him then shouldn't they have helped him? Oh and the creepy upside down spider walk thingy is awesome. Creepy but awesome. I do however await the day when someone kicks him right in the fucking FACE when he does it . THAT FUCKING CLOTHESLINE :mark: !!! Sweet jebus was that awesome looking. Just another wonderful cut off spot from Bray. Really enjoyed how Bryan kept making those small comebacks, using his usual comeback offence, but never getting to do it all at once. He'd start doing one thing, then Bray would cut him off, then Brian would come back again with some more of his "moves of doom" stuff, and again he'd get cut off. Made a nice change from the basic "moves of doom" comeback and yet another thing I love to praise this match for. Fuck, there is just so much awesomeness to this match. There is still a ton of stuff I haven't brought up because if I mentioned everything I liked I would have ended up with a play by play commentary of the match instead lol. So in the end, Bryan falls to Bray and Sister Abigail in the middle of the ring. Would I have liked Bryan to win? Of course. Am I particularly bothered that he didn't? No. Because it isn't going to hurt Bryan in the slightest. Bryan is OVER and that isn't changing. Bray beating Bryan helps him infinitely more than it would help Bryan to beat him. The only complaint I have is how they had Bryan, the superuber over guy, in the first match of the night lose... which in all honestly teased the absolute shit out of everyone that he might show up again for the RR match and win. But that's a rant for later. As far as this match goes... superb. ****1/4. 

Match 2 - Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show - I was fairly hyped for this one. These two have a history of good matches, so I was hoping for something super fun. Instead... Lesnar jumped Show before the bell and smashed the shit out of him with a chair. Then another chair. Show lands a WMD which DOESN'T knock Brock out (despite Michael Cole being a retard and screaming that he was knocked out...), which I have to say I fucking LOVED because it made Lesnar look like a BEAST. Show uses that time to rest and go after Brock with some more shots to the mid-section... then Lesnar powers him up, F-5 and wins. Then smashes another chair over Show over and over again. And honestly they really waste too much time on it. DID YOU KNOW? SHOW GAVE LESNAR HIS FIRST LOSS AT THE 2002 ROYAL RUMBLE EVENT!!! What? You didn't know that? I don't blame you, because it's not a real thing. GREAT JOB AS ALWAYS, JERRY! I like the idea of the match; Lesnar beats down Show with a chair, Show hits WMD to make his comeback, Brock shakes it off and lands an F-5 and wins. But in execution they dragged it out FAR too fucking long. Big Show apparently might have been injured going into the match so this is their way out, but I definitely think it could have been done better. For what it was, I DID enjoy it, however I was expecting much more from them, and the amount of time spent on it drags the whole thing down. **.

Match 3 - Randy Orton Vs John Cena - So instead of sitting through this god awful on paper match live, I made some food, and watched an old episode of House. I was half way into an episode before the RR started so I continued with that, and I think I made the right choice. However, since this IS a WWEWHC match, I don't feel right about skipping it, so it's time to sit through what might be the least appealing "main event" match WWE could possibly throw at me. :lmao DANIEL BRYAN chants before the bell even rings. Followed by "let's go Cena CENA SUCKS" and then "YES YES YES YES" chants. So Bryan is definitely over as fuck in this match, and Cena has his usual mixed reaction... and Orton is completely ignores :lmao. SO LET'S CONTINUE TO PUSH ORTON AS THE TOP GUY YEY!!! Was that a "we want Angle" chant? And a "Y2J" one too? LOL. Orton Vs Cena is so bad people actually want ANGLE back. I did like how Orton stood there and soaked in the chants then started viciously kicking and headbutting Cena, like he was using the crowd's hatred of this whole situation to motivate him. But the fans still don't care about anything and move on to a "boring" chant and continue to absolutely ignore Orton's existence :lmao. Orton keeps trying to use the crowd and bring them into the match, so that's nice... but yeah, they just DON'T CARE. They, the PAYING WWE AUDIENCE, are telling WWE WHAT THEY WANT and WWE are IGNORING THEM EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. So they are just shitting over this terrible, force fed bullshit and rightly so. And it's not like they are shitting over a good match either. Cena and Orton are doing fuck all to make this match worth sitting through. It's just the same old shit from both guys. What the fuck? I swear there is like, an actual full MINUTE of Orton stood doing NOTHING while Cena is down on the match. Seriously. And the crowd were petty silent too :lmao. Yet another dull moment in this crapfest! Ref bump. Random shit. WE WANT DIVAS chant :lmao. THIS IS AWFUL chant :lmao. Commentators play it off as the crowd trying to get in Orton's head or some bollacks. Ummm no. They are trying to get into Vince's head, to tell him he's a fucking MORON. Finisher fest that sucks. Lights go out, Wyatt's show up, Orton takes advantage and wins. Wyatt's beat down Cena to set up to what is apparently a WM match in the making. LOL. Crowd were the ONLY good thing in this match, and I don't give STARS to crowds. DUD.

Match 4 - 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - RUMBLE TIME BITCHES! Punk is #1 of course, and #2 is Seth Rollins! Good pairing to start things off . Some really fun sequences her with both guys kicking each other around and shit. Sandow is #3. Yawn. CODY #4. Poor guy lost the tag belts in the pre-show. TO THE NEW AGE OUTLAWS. IN 2014. LOL. But seriously that was kinda bullshit. I like the NAO. I'm a fan of them being back atm. They've had some fun matches with Punk and Cody & Goldust and The Shield, but tag champs? Get the fuck out of here. And ending the Cody/Goldust reign on the fucking PRE-SHOW too? Bullshit. Sandow is gone. Good. KANE! KANE IS #5! He's 1 elimination behind HBK for most total eliminations... so he gets eliminated by Punk before he can get even 1. HBK gotta hold on to that record I guess. Can't have Kane breaking another RR record. Oh well. He still has most eliminations in a single rumble... 8*D. He's been in the most consecutive Rumble matches at least. OMG #6 IS ALEXANDER RUSEV!!! HE'S THAT... DUDE. FROM NXT. THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF BEFORE IN MY LIFE. FUCK YES!!! THIS IS AWESOME *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* . But in all seriousness, he actually looks impressive. RR matches are a good way to debut certain guys imo, as it allows them to just come in and crush people, look dominant, hit a bunch of big moves and not be limited to some "wwe style" match where they need to apply a lame rest hold for 2 minutes in the middle of the match. SWAGGIE~! But more importantly, ZEB AND HIS AWESOME SIGN. "Kofi Kingston's 6th Rumble match" said by Cole as Kofi comes in. Then he follows it up with "I miss-spoke, Kofi entered at #8 and this is his 6th Rumble match". Uhhhh... how the FUCK did you miss-speak you fucking tard? great drinking game for this PPV is to take a shot every time a commentator fucks up. You'll be dying of alcohol poisoning by the second match. Nobody makes it to the RR match. GOLDUST :mark:. 6 guys eliminate Rusev, which makes him look strong in defeat. Kofi gets launched on him and he places him on the barricade, which leads to the anual Kofi Rumble Spot. It was ok. Hard to surpass the hand walking thing tbh. I was actually hoping he'd miss it when I watched the show live :lmao. DEAN AMBROSE. So Seth entered the match from the crowd like always... but Dean enters from the entrance way? Oooook. Jim Duggan's pick shows up at #12; Dolph Ziggler! I see the real Hacksaw is as stupid as his fake twitter account . Another Kofi isn't eliminated spot. Urgh. KEVIN NASH. Nice to see him I guess. He eliminates SWAGGIE then goes after THE SHIELD and then... doesn't really make a difference because #15 ROMAN FUCKING REIGNS lobs him out. Man oh man Reigns comes in looking awesome. He fucking DROPKICKS a guy who is on the apron by jumping up onto the apron with a dropkick and landing on the apron. Kinda hard to explain it exactly but it was awesome. SPEARS. ELIMINATIONS. AWESOMENESS. And then Khali shows up. The fuck is Khali still doing in the company? :lmao I swear JBL is just sat on fucking Wikipedia so he can spout out random RR facts. Goldust accidentally runs into Cody and eliminates him! Then Goldust gets dumped out . Losing the tag titles and then the elimination is likely the beginning of the end of their tag team . SHEAMUS! YES! THE GREAT WHITE IS BACK! :mark:. Hope the guy gets right back into workhorse mode like last year before he got injured, and 2012. Cool to see him go at The Shield again after all this time. Miz. No reaction for him. Ha. Bad News Barrett mention. Didn't Barrett enter himself into the RR on SD? The fuck happened there? Wait... why the fuck do I care? Fuck Barrett. And fuck Miz. Man, I forgot Punk was even still in this thing. The fuck has he been most of this match? Lazy shit. DANIEL BRYAN chants again as the countdown to #20 begins. El Torito ends up being the next entrant. Which is actually better than a lot of the other entrants so far lol. Guys take a bunch of bumps for the little guy and it's kinda awesome tbh lol. Then he eliminates Fandango :lmao. Roman presses the midget bull over head and launches him into Fandango who takes a fucking hilariously bad bump. CESARO AND ZEB WITH A FOLLOW UP SIGN :lmao. GIANT SWING~! Punk with a drop kick to Miz while he's getting swinged. Swingged. Swung. There we go. I felt a little queasy just watching poor Rollings get spun over 20 times. SPEAR TO CESARO~! Harper comes out and the crowd fall silent. LOL. Another Uso shows up and the crowd fucking DIE again, which is a shame because Cesaro and Harper have an awesome exchangeof uppercuts. JBL!!! JBL IS IN THE RR!!! He gets in, stands around, shouts to Cole to take his jacket and then gets eliminated and pretends like nothing ever happened ala Lawler in 97... which Lawler even brings up :lmao. I don't like them wasting entrances on commentators, especially considering a certain someone doesn't even enter... but I liked it here. :lmao at the "you still got it" chants :lmao. Fans taking the piss, in what I would believe IS all in good fun . FUCK YES THE MIZ IS ELIMINATED :mark:. SHIELD AND WYATT STAREDOWN AND NOBODY GIVES A FUCK BECAUSE IT HAPPENS RIGHT AS SOMEONE ELSE IS ENTERING SO THAT WAS A FUCKING WASTE. :lmao Ryback comes in and grabs Cesaro up to throw him into the corner... only to realise that all the corners are taken so he has to do his shoulder attack in the ropes . CESARO AND SHEAMUS. Ryback tries to get involved and Sheamus just punches him in the face and tells him to fuck off. "THAT WASN'T A MOVE. THAT WAS JUST "I'M GONNA THROW MY FIRST INTO YOUR FACE". I do believe that's known as a PUNCH Mr Jibble. #28 is none other than the Animal. Who looks fucking redicuous in his ring gear. Guy looks knackered running down to the ring... and he was only jogging :lmao. :lmao Batista is absolutely FUCKED before #29 even comes out. Who happens to be BIG E who looks more oiled up than... I dunno... that Family Guy character. You know who I mean. Greased up deaf guy? Him. So watching this live, #30 was getting ready to come out. I couldn't remember if anyone was left to come in that was announced. The fans were chanting YES beforehand. It GOTTA BE BRYAN, right? And then Rey comes out . And I remembered he was in it. Poor Rey gets absolutely BOOED OUT OF THE BUILDING because the fans were expecting Bryan. Gotta feel for poor Rey who was put in a lose lose situation. Didn't matter who came out, the fact it wasn't Bryan pissed off the fans to no end. And the fans just gave up on everything and everyone at this point. The WWE has once again IGNORED THEM and fucked them over. Could you imagine Austin not appearing in the 1998 RR match? Rock in 2000? How much fucking backlash would the company have gotten back then? So why on earth are they doing it to Bryan now? Guy is THE most over guy on the roster, and nobody even comes close, as popular as some guys are. Yet WWE are seemingly REFUSING TO PUSH HIM above the usual shit like Cena and Orton and HHH and Batista. Anyway, back to the match. Rey gets eliminated and the fans CHEER. Ambrose tries to sneak up behind REIGNS to eliminate him, but it doesn't work, so Reigns eliminates Ambrose AND Rollins! And unfortunately that may spell the end of yet another team . Kane shows up again and eliminates Punk, then chokeslams him through a table, and the fans still don't give a fuck because NO BRYAN. Didn't help that Punk was a giant non factor throughout the match. He was barely doing ANYTHING. Final 3; Sheamus, Batista and ROMAN REIGNS. The fans are booing the SHIT out of this situation. NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! chants like fucking crazy. Poor Sheamus. Returns, gets a huge pop, and then is put in a situation, like Rey, where he's gonna get booed to hell. Batista is kinda the same but fucking deserves it. REIGNS ELIMINATES SHEAMUS and with that breaks Kane's record with TWELVE eliminations in a single match. And the whole thing is just glossed over like it's fucking nothing. Batista and Reigns left, and the fans know they aren't getting Bryan, so they decide to fully support the awesomeness of REIGNS because in this situation who the fuck else can they cheer for? I said prior to the event that as much as I love Reigns and do believe he's gonna be a HUGE star... he has no business winning the Rumble match this year. Then it came down to him and Batista and I was 100% behind the guy. :lmao at the horrendous spear attempt from Batista. Reigns shows him how it's fucking DONE, BITCH. Then Batista eliminates Reigns and I'm sad and the fans shit all over the match once again and rightfully so. Batista can't even stand up. Bullshit. However, outside of the DUMBEST FUCKING DECISON the company has made in some time... I really enjoyed this match. Right up until the finish, anyway . Disappointed we didn't get JAKE ROBERTS though. But Reigns looked awesome throughout, SHEAMUS came back, El Torito was fun, Cesaro had some cool moments, plus a few other things. So overall I do think it was a very good Rumble. I just can't believe the booking for the match and the whole show. ***3/4.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

holy walls of text batman! tl;dr


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So, decided to launch a pro wrestling blog and my first post was on the royal rumble 2014

Enjoy!

http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Cena/Orton now. Not really paying attention, only reason I'm watching is for the crowd. If they go through with Orton/Batista it could be a truly horrible match. Batista looked rusty in the Rumble and these days Orton is like 10% hit, 90% miss.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll have to check out bryan/wyatt as most are praising it



^^^ that match was hilarously bad, watching that w/ the crowd chants + chatbox = lovely :banderas, I heard someone in here gave it ***3/4 ???


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Saw this, the chants during Orton/Cena:
> 
> Those chants in full:
> 
> 0:00 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 0:33- 'Lets Go Cena! Cena Sucks!' 1:05- 'Daniel Bryan!' & a small 'YES!', 2:15- 'We Want Daniel!', 2:42 'Randy Savage!', 3:28 'Y2J!', 4:02 - 'Undertaker!', 4:40 - 'Boring!', 5:58 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 6:56- 'You Both Suck!', 10:23 - a (very small) Mexican Wave starts, 13:10 - 'End This Match!', 15:00 - 'This Is Awful!', 16:23 - 'We Want Refunds!', post-match - 'Thank You Wyatts!'


Read from people that were at the event that there were also 'we want Angle', 'CM Punk', 'take it home', and, of course, 'we want divas'.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is awful was hilarious :lmao

The Savage chants were pretty funny because Orton was completely dumbfounded by it


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Nobody needs to see Cena/Orton again..


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Really hope that the crowd is just as good tonight

I mean, Pittsburgh isn't a crowd thats usually good, so this could be everywhere


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

WWE narrator: "Possibly the biggest rematch in history"
Crowd: "We want divas"


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished rewatching Orton/Cena from last night.

I can honestly say that I enjoyed it just as much as the first time. I take the crowd chanting random shit as a good enough substitute for a dead crowd and that helped make the match enjoyable. Admit I smirked at the brief "Undertaker" chants, though. And how come no one has picked up on Cena going for the Boston Crab right after they chanted "Y2J"? That was pretty cool I thought. Anyways, first half was better this time around as they have a more standard wrestling match with Orton taunting the crowd whenever he can. Then there's the DDT on the outside spot and it's funny to hear the guy at ringside with a high pitched voice repeatedly saying "Finish him, Randy!". The finisher-fest was kind of quick but I enjoyed it because instead of using the same moves over and over (their own finisher), they stole the opponent's move and that's something I always love. Orton winning was the icing on the cake for me. I see a lot of complaining about the finisher exchanges but I really don't think it's any more offensive than Punk and Cena hitting about 10 finishers in a row in their Night of Champions match which everyone has praised as a classic. This one gets ★★★½.

And no, I'm not gonna feel guilty for enjoying it. FUCK YOU! :side:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished rewatching Orton/Cena from last night.
> 
> I can honestly say that I enjoyed it just as much as the first time. I take the crowd chanting random shit as a good enough substitute for a dead crowd and that helped make the match enjoyable. Admit I smirked at the brief "Undertaker" chants, though. And how come no one has picked up on Cena going for the Boston Crab right after they chanted "Y2J"? That was pretty cool I thought. Anyways, first half was better this time around as they have a more standard wrestling match with Orton taunting the crowd whenever he can. Then there's the DDT on the outside spot and it's funny to hear the guy at ringside with a high pitched voice repeatedly saying "Finish him, Randy!". The finisher-fest was kind of quick but I enjoyed it because instead of using the same moves over and over (their own finisher), they stole the opponent's move and that's something I always love. Orton winning was the icing on the cake for me. I see a lot of complaining about the finisher exchanges but I really don't think it's any more offensive than Punk and Cena hitting about 10 finishers in a row in their Night of Champions match which everyone has praised as a classic. This one gets ★★★½.
> 
> And no, I'm not gonna feel guilty for enjoying it. FUCK YOU! :side:


:heyman5:cornette

I love Orton more then the next person but that match was poor and the crowd deserved to shit on it. Cena/Orton don't work together and Crowd don't buy it anymore.

Don't feel guilty feel ashamed :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Also, Lawler needs to be kicked off commentary pronto. "Has there been a winner for every number?" There's only been 27 rumbles Jerry...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:selfie


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

I've been watching wrestling since the attitude era. I must say I am disgusted with the route WWE has taken. I do understand things will change, but it's got to the point where I can barely watch. I remember back in the early 2000s, the matchcard was stacked from start to finish. I'll stop here because I'm going off topic. I saw the Royal Rumble yesterday and my god, that show was terrible. I am glad the crowd is booing. It might change the direction WWE is trying to take with the PG nonsense. 

Currently have Armaggedon 2002 in the dvd player(ps3), the 3 stages of hell with HBK and HHH is a classic.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rah said:


> WWE narrator: "Possibly the biggest rematch in history"
> Crowd: "We want divas"


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> Currently have Armaggedon 2002 in the dvd player(ps3), the 3 stages of hell with HBK and HHH is a classic.


:cussin::cussin::cussin::cussin:

Hate that match tbh


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Also, Lawler needs to be kicked off commentary pronto. "Has there been a winner for every number?" There's only been 27 rumbles Jerry...


I somewhat agree with this. His commentary has gone downhill, but there are factors that led to it. The wrestlers don't provide much action, barely any special matches anymore(cage,tlc, etc), and Michael Cole just sucks. It's hard to see Lawler with anyone but JR, to be honest.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> :cussin::cussin::cussin::cussin:
> 
> Hate that match tbh


Haha, mind if I ask why?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SaviorBeeRad™;29270353 said:


> I hated Brock/Show, made no sense and took forever


Seriously. I'm astonished that people are giving this good ratings and shitting on Cena/Orton. Imagine either guy just made a match entirely about a chair. And not even in an entertaining way, at that. Brock wasn't even destroying Show with a chair in a really sadistic way. It was the most "blah" beating I've ever seen. And it's BROCK!

What a let down. And I scoff at anyone claiming that Brock against anyone else is a "waste", yet big upped this, like this was a useful use of one of his three matches. Ugh.

The booking didn't even make Brock look truly threatening or strong at all, which should have been the purpose of this match. Especially after the way they booked him on the previous RAWS. He should have beat the ever loving shit out of Show, but in a much more entertaining way.



C2D, I agree that Bryan needs to be in a three-way at WM, but I don't agree that he needs to get screwed at EC, and demand it the next night. That's only gonna make the fans MORE pissed, and drag this out even more. This "Bryan getting screwed over" thing has been going on for over half a year now.

Just have everyone in the EC for a chance to be added to the WM main event title match. Have Bryan win. That's it. Simple.


Bryan - 'Cause...you know.
Cena - 'Cause he got screwed by the Wyatts
Lesnar - Because he thinks he deserves it
Punk - 'Cause he got screwed at the Rumble. The authority will try to act like they're doing something good here.
Reigns - Because he got far in the Rumble and had a great performance.
Ambrose - Because he and Rollins will come out and start shit, and say that it's unfair for just Reigns to be in there, because they would have lasted if Reigns hadn't snuck up, etc.
Rollins - See above. Make this a special seven person match.

Or if they don't want it to be a seven person match, the authority can grant Rollins & Ambrose a match against each other, and whoever wins gets the final spot. I think a chamber with them both in there would be more interesting, though.


You can have Vince and Trips/Steph put this all together on air on RAW. Heyman probably comes out and says that Lesnar deserves the title match, after they mention Bryan being in the EC. So Vince/Trips/Steph say something like "fine. We'll just have him prove it/cement it. BROCK will be in the Chamber!" 

It's an easy way to get some of the biggest names in the chamber, plus, you can keep teasing the Shield dissension.

Since they're big on this authority storyline, they can also tease the "will the Shield help the authority take Punk out?" thing.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm down for that EC


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> Haha, mind if I ask why?




I always thought HHH/HBK 3SOH was one of the best examples of a Garbage WWE Main Event, but Cena/Orton from last night takes the cake for worst WWE Title match in over a decade. I'm actually struggling right now to come up with a worse one. Cena/Orton managed to make Rock/Cena II look like Benoit/Regal by comparison.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HHH/HBK 3SOH = Random ass shit, and not in a good way IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> Haha, mind if I ask why?


IDK, like others have said its just garbage, no thought process besides "Lets do random shit and the match will be awesome". 

I hope you liked Eddie/Benoit and Angle/Show from that show, and the opener, all are :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Rewatched the Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt match. It's still really good. From Bray acting like a nut such as talking to himself and biting Bryan as he goes for the Yes lock to Bryan's selling and babyface performance, this was a real delight to watch and definitely stole the show. I think that Bray is actually good in the ring as he incorporates his character into his matches but didn't really have the chance to really prove that in a nice 10+ minute match and I believe his showing last night proved that. Great performances by both men (Y).


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> IDK, like others have said its just garbage, no thought process besides "Lets do random shit and the match will be awesome".
> 
> I hope you liked Eddie/Benoit and Angle/Show from that show, and the opener, all are :mark:


It's different for me, I guess. I was only 7 at the time and was there live. Watching that match again brought back memories. I can see how you guys would find it boring though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: that awful 3 stages of hell crap with hhh and hbk



*Shawn Michaels Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship 2 out of 3 Falls Match - First fall is a street fight, second fall is a cage match, third fall (IF NEEDED LOL) is a ladder match*

*sigh* I guess I gotta watch this. Hated it when it happened. Hated it when I re-watched it. Honestly haven't seen it in probably 8 years. Likely only seen it twice lol. The first time was more than enough. But ever the professional (LOL) I'm gonna watch it anyway!!!

Flair gets send to the back... before the match starts. For no reason at all. Uhhhh ok. There goes the one thing I was looking forward to in this match . NOT FAIR TO FLAIR~!

:lmao Shawn pretty much has a match with a trash can for the first 5 minutes :lmao. And it's better than every other HHH/HBK match ever .

Ton of sloppy shit early on in this one. Ring rust from HBK, or just shitty HHH being shitty HHH? I know which one I'm more likely to side with lol .

HHH has his right quad all taped up. So HBK decides to go after his back instead :lmao. Sort of get why he would, because HHH wants to kill HBK's back and it's all REVENGE and shit, but come on. HIS LEG IS CLEARLY ALREADY INJURED. KILL IT!!!

:lmao then HHH starts to work on HBK's leg :lmao. YOU WANNA WORK ON MY BACK WHICH ISN'T HURT AT ALL BECAUSE YOUR BACK IS HURT AND I'LL LIKELY GO AFTER IT? WELL FUCK YOU, MY LEG IS HURT SO I'M GONNA GO AFTER YOUR LEG. LOGIC~! :lmao

HHH gets a 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire, and is about to hit HBK with it. Then he stops and stands there like a retard for about a minute, before setting it on fire instead. :lmao HBK kicks him and HHH drops the 2x4... and it lands RIGHT NEXT TO THE FANS :lmao.

HBK uses it on HHH's face!!! HHH is only bleeding though . How awesome would this match have been if HHH's FACE was on fire? HHH RIDER FTW.

HBK nips up!!! But his leg is still fucked so he hobbles back and HHH chop blocks him and lands a Pedigree, picking up the win for the first fall! Well gosh, that was like, a GOOD FINISH. If only that was the end of the match :|. Second fall time. Steel cage. Just what these guys need; a match in a confined space.

As the cage lowers, HHH throws in a bunch of weapons. :lmao even HHH knows he can't have a standard cage match with HBK and have it be good. GOTTA USE DEM WEAPONS~!

Oh hey, HBK bladed. Quite clearly . They even show it on the replay :lmao.

They both end up fighting on top of the cage, and HHH tells Flair to stack some tables because... I don't know. If HHH threw HBK off the cage through the tables then yeah, it'd fuck him up... but it would also give HBK the second fall. So uhhh... what?  

FLAIR IN THE CAGE~! FLAIR IS BLEEDING :lmao.

:lmao HHH looks to attempt a Pedigree on a steel chair, but accidentally kicks it away while trying to get his footing right .

SUPERKICK~! And Shawn... doesn't go for the cover. He wants to HURT HHH which is all well and good but come on. HBK has been fucked up during this match and honestly should have just got the win there and then rather than taking a high risk and Crossbody'ing HHH through a table from the cage. At least it paid off... but still .

Third fall time. Great, exactly what we need. Both guys have been killing each other for 20 minutes, so now they have to muster up the energy to CLIMB A LADDER. This won't be slow as shit...

What's even BETTER than them sloooowly climbing ladders? DECIDING TO NOT SELL THE LAST 20 MINUTES AND CLIMBING LADDERS LIKE IT'S FUCKING NOTHING!!! YEY!! GOAT MATCH EVER!!! 

Oh wait, after fucking off selling, they decide to start selling again and climb slowly. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!!

Nice superkick to HHH... then HHH comes back in, knocks HBK off the ladder and OH WOW THOSE TABLES CAME INTO PLAY I DIDN'T NOT SEE THAT COMING!

HHH wins. We don't.

This is BAD. But in a lot of ways more HILARIOUSLY bad than their HIAC match. Still, I never ever in my life want to sit through this shite again. Was about 25 minutes too long.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It falls under the same pitfall as most HBK/HHH matches in that it tries entirely too hard to be "epic." It had some cool spots if you're into that type of stuff, but it lasted far too long and didn't really make much sense. I'd have to watch it again to give examples, but yeah.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think at this point the only way the Mania crowd won't shit on the main event is for Bryan to be added or to have him face Taker (which seems unlikely given BROCK is all but a lock to face Taker, unless BROCK is in the title match @ Mania).


IMO, I think they'll shit on the match, even if Bryan faces Taker. I think we're at the point now where people will rebel against "chosen" ones if it's not Bryan, even if Bryan gets a pretty huge match.

Having said that, Bryan vs. Taker would be really interesting to me, as I think that he might pose the only credible threat to the streak at this point. I know that sounds crazy with the way that the WWE has been pulling out the rug from underneath Bryan, but this could be their ultimate trump card, if they're resigned to finally giving in to the fans. Especially since I could see Taker insisting that Bryan goes over. If someone is going to break the streak, who better? Can we see anyone else in the upcoming years who the fans will accept for that position? Maybe Reigns. _Maybe_. Maybe a heel Bray Wyatt, if they really build him up. 

So I'd want to see this match, as it's the only one that would provide real uncertainty to me. People say that for Cena, but I don't see that at all. I don't think that there's any chance in hell that Cena would break the streak. He doesn't need it. I know they've given him things he didn't really need in the past, but I don't think that they would sacrifice the money maker that is the Streak, just for something that Cena doesn't need. Not unless it was a catalyst for him to turn heel.

So as for the topic...yeah, I think the only way to prevent the crowd from shitting on the title match is for Bryan to be involved.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Rewatched the Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt match. It's still really good. From Bray acting like a nut such as talking to himself and biting Bryan as he goes for the Yes lock to Bryan's selling and babyface performance, this was a real delight to watch and definitely stole the show. I think that Bray is actually good in the ring as he incorporates his character into his matches but didn't really have the chance to really prove that in a nice 10+ minute match and I believe his showing last night proved that. Great performances by both men (Y).



I'm not just saying this because their physical appearances are similar, but I really feel that Bray was channeling his inner Foley last night. From striking his leg to get feeling back in it, to the squealing and talking to himself, to the grunts behind the punches, to the way he has completely "dropped in" (to use an acting term) to his character. Bray was just captivating last night, in a way I haven't seen in a while. If he can keep improving his ring skills and doesn't get overexposed too soon, he could be really really special. He's already one of the best promos in the business, he just needs to make sure his work can keep up with his character or fans will lose interest.

Also, it should go without saying, that Bray will only be as successful as his current storyline permits. They need to make sure Bray always has some purpose behind his actions. He needs to feel justified in his actions, or else it will all see inauthentic. I hope they come up with a good reason for the attack on Cena tonight on Raw, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Saw this, the chants during Orton/Cena:
> 
> Those chants in full:
> 
> 0:00 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 0:33- 'Lets Go Cena! Cena Sucks!' 1:05- 'Daniel Bryan!' & a small 'YES!', 2:15- 'We Want Daniel!', 2:42 'Randy Savage!', 3:28 'Y2J!', 4:02 - 'Undertaker!', 4:40 - 'Boring!', 5:58 - 'Daniel Bryan!', 6:56- 'You Both Suck!', 10:23 - a (very small) Mexican Wave starts, 13:10 - 'End This Match!', 15:00 - 'This Is Awful!', 16:23 - 'We Want Refunds!', post-match - 'Thank You Wyatts!'


They actually said "we want divas" not "we want refunds." And if you turn your volume up real loud, you'll actually hear Orton say "I'll give you a diva..." and then he does his pose. :lmao

Fuck, at least he was playing into the crowd.




sharkboy22 said:


> Yeah, it really was unfortunate what happened to Rey. But iirc, the fans cheered when he was eliminated. That was just unnecessary. It's one thing to boo him cause he was number 30 and not Bryan but to actually cheer his elimination? What the hell did he do? That was just making things personal.


Yep, completely turdish, but I would expect nothing less.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I think everyone is overreacting about Rey getting boo'd. I don't think there are very many, if any guys more respected and beloved in the WWE than Rey. He knows how much love and respect the fans have for him. He's been a life long good guy, in my opinion the best pure baby face ever, so he's never been booed like that before. I'm betting he was laughing about it backstage, as he's never experienced what it's like to be a hated heel before.
> 
> I love Rey as much as anyone, I just think you guys are underselling his self esteem. He knows who he is, he knows how good he is, and he knows the fans think he's one of the greatest of all time. He can take a little booing without letting it get to him, it's not like fans were hurling cups of hot piss and bags of fecal matter. It was just booing, and he's smart enough to know the booing was 100% about Bryan getting screwed and not fans being upset with Rey.


I did notice that he was botching, like, every move once he came in. Made me wonder if he really was rattled. I'm sure he expected some boos, but it just didn't stop. 



Clint Eastwood said:


> Also, Lawler needs to be kicked off commentary pronto. "Has there been a winner for every number?" There's only been 27 rumbles Jerry...


:lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> C2D, I agree that Bryan needs to be in a three-way at WM, but I don't agree that he needs to get screwed at EC, and demand it the next night. That's only gonna make the fans MORE pissed, and drag this out even more. This "Bryan getting screwed over" thing has been going on for over half a year now.
> 
> Just have everyone in the EC for a chance to be added to the WM main event title match. Have Bryan win. That's it. Simple.


I didn't say they should screw Bryan. I said Authority members (Orton, Kane, NAO) should do a run-in when the door opens and the final two are Batista/Bryan. They attack both and leave them laying and Bryan somehow manages to make the cover and become the #1 contender for WM. Batista comes out the night after and complains about getting screwed, so they book a match between Bryan and Batista where either the winner is #1 contender (causing a double DQ finish forcing Orton to defend against both) or Batista needs to beat Bryan for it to become a triple threat.

BROCK should NOT be in the chamber, btw. He should face Orton for the title. They can have him attack Undertaker as he makes his return a week or two before EC and then on the show, Taker's gong distracts Brock, causing him to lose. That way you set up two main event matches along with the ones already made (HHH/Punk, Cena/Wyatt).


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh, yeah. I still don't think that Bryan should get a directly screwy victory, though. They should make him look strong going into WM, and all these screwjobs get tiresome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, my (late) thoughts on the Rumble:

Rhodes/NAO - **3/4 - GOLDUST made the match as I expected. Tbf, that was actually a stretch since I didn't expect the NAO to have anything worth my time in 20-fucking-14, especially after that shitty Punk/Gunn match, but there you go. Them being the Tag Champs doesn't mean shit to me, to be frank.

Bryan/Wyatt - **** - Well, I thought this was getting 13 minutes at best, turned out to go over 20. Good choice because this ruled. Wyatt's career performance by far, and I enjoyed his antics just as much as Bryan's. From the biting of the hand to escape the Yes Lock, to the small attack on the concussion, to "I tried to tell him"/"Why do you keep helping him?!"... damn. The ending barricade spot was pretty sick too. Just a damn fine way to open the PPV year, and certainly better than every match in the last few Royal Rumble shows combined.

Lesnar/Show - ** - Just because it was fun. Big time letdown if you ask me regardless, for obvious reasons. Thinking a potential MOTYC my ass.

Orton/Cena - DUD - I'm not even sure if it was worse or not than Punk/Rock last year. This kind of formula (them calling an audible and just spamming finishers) sorta worked (well it didn't, but it was more "meaningful") in Rock/Cena II, but here, they gave even less of a fuck than in that match. No shocker - the crowd just ripped the whole thing apart, and rightfully so, as it was a dull, uninteresting piece of shit. Though I marked at Cena's RKO. Oh, and FUCK YOU WWE AT CENA/WYATT FOR WRESTLEFUCKINGMANIA FUCKING 30. FUCK. F-U-C-K. YOU. WITH A DILDO USED BY A MALE PROSTITUTE.

Rumble - ***3/4 - I think we all agree to disagree on this match's thoughts. To me, this was better than the last two Rumbles by far. The ending was a shitty ass dissapointment, sure, but a predictable one too. Plus, every other great moment - JBL's timewaster, Kevin Nash, Sheamus, everything w/Shield, Kofi's spots, Cesaro vs. Harper, Reigns breaking Kane's record, KANE tying HBK with the elimination of Punk mark, etc. made this Rumble in a moment heading towards top match ever of its kind. Plus, the crowd shitting on REY MYSTERIO because of no Bryan was kinda surreal and hilarious, only added to the madness of the moment.

Overall, I didn't hate the Rumble PPV itself, thought it was OK, but Goddamn, the booking was atrocious. And for the love of God, at this stage, even if I was against it like as close as 2 days ago, even Taker/Bryan should be sufficient enough to end this madness envolving the Beard, because if they don't have Bryan in a big role (Bryan/Sheamus is NOT a big role at fucking all), WM 30, the biggest WWE PPV event ever, is gonna get wrecked. And it will be a bigger gore festival than Saw and Passion Of The Christ combined to see such an event tarnished completely by 70,000 pissed off fans chanting Daniel Bryan's name all night long and shitting on everything else, even if I am a fan of Bryan myself. WWE, for once, *do what the fans want*.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Oh, yeah. I still don't think that Bryan should get a directly screwy victory, though. They should make him look strong going into WM, and all these screwjobs get tiresome.


I don't think it matters at this point. Crowd is behind Bryan no matter what happens. He could show up with a machine gun and fire at the crowd and they'd still chant "YES". They couldn't give a fuck less about him "looking strong", so might as well do some shenanigans along the way to get the triple threat going so that they can satisfy themselves and the fans at the same time. To get him in this when Batista won the Rumble fair and square requires screwjobs and interference, otherwise it's just random and out of nowhere.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I just hope they do _something_ meaningful with Bryan. The reactions are only going to get worse (for them, better for me) from now on.

And I'm pretty sure that Cena vs. Orton is going to end up on the "Best PPV Matches of 2014" DVD in 11 months :vince5


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> I just hope they do _something_ meaningful with Bryan. The reactions are only going to get worse (for them, better for me) from now on.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure that Cena vs. Orton is going to end up on the "Best PPV Matches of 2014" DVD in 11 months :vince5



HAHAHAHA I can totally see it happening too. They are going to dub the crowd noise from Rock/Hogan WM 18 and splice it into the background of Cena/Orton RR then call it the Match of the Year. I can see it now :vince5

I just can't get over how bad that match was. My expectations were about as low as you can get going into it, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that WWE would actually put out THAT at their second biggest event of the year. That's a match you have at a house show in front of 5,000 people when you are hungover or injured, not a MAIN EVENT for the WWE TITLE at THE ROYAL FREAKING RUMBLE. Seriously, do Cena and Orton have any self respect left after that debacle? They might as well of just taken turns squatting and shitting in the middle of the ring, because they were already taking a metaphorical dump on all their paying fans by giving the effort they did.

I'm trying to decide what it's going to take for WWE to dig themselves out of this hole. They are planning on launching the Network in less than a month, and they some how just managed to completely piss off over half their fan base. I would pay $100 to have a 10 minute sit down conversation with Vince where I get to ask him any question I want and he has to tell the truth. The first question would be "What sort of black mail does Batista have over you, that you would intentionally piss off every single paying fan in attendance to let him win the Rumble when he can't even wrestle for 45 seconds without getting blown up? It's pictures of you licking chocolate sauce off Pat Patterson's nipples, isn't it?"

C2D- I would think after last nights showing you would be completely against Orton facing Batista in a main event. Facing Batista at this point is only going to harm him more in the fans eyes, Dave was blown up after 45 seconds and looked absolutely abysmal. Wouldn't you rather have Orton face a guy who can actually, you know, still wrestle?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just rewatched HHH/Taker WM 28, was shocked how much I liked that. I'd go ****1/2 for it when I originally had it at ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont want Bryan ANYWHERE near Orton/batista for mania


Not even a bryan mark but, as fans we should only settle for : vs. HHH ; vs. brock ; vs. Cena. anything else is just a slap in the face


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I just can't get over how bad that match was. My expectations were about as low as you can get going into it, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that WWE would actually put out THAT at their second biggest event of the year. That's a match you have at a house show in front of 5,000 people when you are hungover or injured, not a MAIN EVENT for the WWE TITLE at THE ROYAL FREAKING RUMBLE. Seriously, do Cena and Orton have any self respect left after that debacle? They might as well of just taken turns squatting and shitting in the middle of the ring, *because they were already taking a metaphorical dump on all their paying fans by giving the effort they did.*


Not like the "fans" deserved any better considering they chanted "Boring" about 10 seconds into the match. No matter what they would've done, crowd was not willing to give it a chance. And I honestly still struggle to see what was so bad about it. I've just heard complaints about the finisher exchanges in the end and yeah, the crowd as if that somehow lessens the effort in the ring.

Oh well, I enjoyed the match and no one call tell me otherwise. 



> I would think after last nights showing you would be completely against Orton facing Batista in a main event. Facing Batista at this point is only going to harm him more in the fans eyes, Dave was blown up after 45 seconds and looked absolutely abysmal. Wouldn't you rather have Orton face a guy who can actually, you know, still wrestle?


Have you missed my posts? I've clearly suggested that they should find a way to insert Bryan into the picture and make it a triple threat. I do want Orton to main event WM because he's my guy, but I want him in a _memorable_ main event. He's already main evented the show with a mediocre match five years ago, time to correct that wrong and put on a show while closing the biggest one of the year. Adding Bryan will solve all the issues Batista/Orton would have from furious crowd to pace and match quality.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I would mark so hard if the crowd turned it's back (literally) on Batista tonight. I could see him being the kind of fuck that would lose it on live television.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Raw is must watch for me tonight and I haven't said that about WWE programming in a long, long time. I guess that's a good thing?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Honestly at the moment I'm in a "I'll read the results and if something interests me I'll watch it" mood. I don't think there's enough for me to care about to invest time into it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Just rewatched HHH/Taker WM 28, was shocked how much I liked that. I'd go ****1/2 for it when I originally had it at ***3/4





NOOOOOO. NOT ANOTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT OVERRATED BOREFEST. NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO COMMENT ON YOUR OPINION OF IT 


I decided to wash the memory of the worst booked PPV in recent WWE History from my mind by watching my all time favorite PPV, Summerslam 2002. This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I've watched it all the way through. I don't know if it was the stink of last nights debacle or what, but I found it better than ever, if at all possible. Here is the breakdown:

Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio: *****1/2*

-This match still hits all the sweet spots for me. Aside from Bret/Owen WM10, this, in my opinion, is the finest opening match in WWE History. I love how it starts with Rey catching Kurt off guard, I love the pacing, these two barely take a breath. Just a non-stop frenzy of great action. The thing is, it's not silly nonsense action like Kurt would become known for later in his career. The back and forth was structured so that it fit both guys strengths to a T. Rey's rolling senton over the ref is still a "HOLY SHIT" moment. If they hadn't semi-botched the finish, this would be a damn near perfect match. Wonderful stuff.

Chris Jericho vs Ric Flair: *****

-This match struggled at times, mostly because Flair hadn't realized at this point in his WWE career that he was RIC FUCKING FLAIR and that all the fans want to see was Naitch being Naitch. Thought Jericho did a great job of keeping things together, but it's just sad to see the complete lack of confidence Flair has at this point. It wouldn't be until the forming of Evolution that we would truly see the great Old Man Flair. Some good chopping and stiff punches, and I loved Jericho almost making Naitch tap to the figure four. The finishing sequence saved this match from being meh and turned it into mediocre-decent territory.

Eddie Guerrero vs Edge: ****1/2*

-These two would have better matches, but I'll be honest, I enjoyed this a lot more this time than I have previous times. Eddie is just the best when he's in control. I love all the arm work he did, and I love Edge's selling of said arm work. Hell, Eddie even delivers the Frog Splash onto Edge's arm, which I thought was great. I'll need to check out the Unforgiven match to see if that improves on another watch. Bottom line, Eddie Guerrero from 2002-2005 + a competent opponent = atleast ***1/2 every single time. He's just the best.

Booker T & Goldust vs The Un-Americans: ******

-I LOVE THIS TAG. Seriously, what a great 10 minute match. I love Booker on the outside yelling "come on Goldie, you can do it!" as cheesey as it sounds, it was great. I even love Booker's hot tag, he does a solid job keeping the crowd pop going. The meat of this match though is Goldust's glorious FIP segment. Has a transvestite man covered in gold face paint ever been able to get the amount of sympathy that Dustin Rhodes does? I'm guessing not. He's amazing, and I'm so happy he's still around in the WWE. I don't want to forget Lance and Christian though, they did their jobs well, using all the old sneaky heel tag team tricks and really getting some great heat. This match just worked, they worked the traditional Southern Tag Team formula to a T. There is a reason that formula has been around for so long, BECAUSE IT IS ALWAYS FUCKING AWESOME WHEN DONE RIGHT.

Chris Benoit vs Rob Van Dam for the IC Title: ****3/4*

-I loved how snug and realistic these two worked. RVD's kicks were just brutal looking, and Benoit was not letting up at all with his chops and punches. I love the reversals and counters, and I love how Benoit forces RVD down to mat and keeps him grounded. I'd have loved for these two to get a real program over multiple PPV's to see how good they could have gotten together, but as it stands this was a damn fine piece of work.

Test vs The Undertaker: ***1/2*

-Nothing really special about this match. Wasn't bad at all, mostly because of Taker, but honestly as I'm sitting here typing, I watched this match about 45 minutes ago and can't remember a damn thing about it other than Taker winning with the Tombstone.

Shawn Michaels vs HHH Unsanctioned Match:

-SKIPPED AND REPLACED WITH.......

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle WWE Championship Match at Summerslam 2003: *****1/2*

-This was easily one of the best ideas I've ever had. I was DREADING having to sit through 35 minutes of Shawn and Hunter doing EPIC~ things, when I got the brilliant idea to simply pop in my Top 25 Rivalries set for this match and REPLACE all that nonsense from Shawn and Hunter. Like I said, I'm a genius. Anways, I just love Brock in this match. The man really can do no wrong for me. I love Kurt getting in his head in the early going, so Brock rolls out and proceeds to go BALLISTIC and starts smashing monitors and chucking the steps around like they are a bundle of twigs. Out of control Brock=the best Brock. Kurt is a damn fine baby face in this match, I always much preferred Kurt as a face working against psychotic heels. I even love that crazy upside leg scissors sleeper hold he catches Brock in. I'm no expert, but I cant imagine that's a real hold. That means Kurt's crazy ass just dreamt it up and decided to do it, and I love him for it. The finish isn't ideal (I'm in the camp of people that believe a guy like BROCK should never tap, for anyone) but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy seeing Brocks crazed expression and Vince's beady eyes when they realize Kurt has him cornered and there is no escape. Great, great, match, far superior to WM 19 and possibly even better than their classic IronMan encounter.

Brock Lesnar vs The Rock for the WWE Title: *****1/4*

-This match just worked. There isn't a whole lot of actual wrestling, but damn if this didn't have that great BIG FIGHT feel. The double nip up, Brock straight rag dolling Rocky, the crowd turning on the Rock when they realize THE NEXT BIG THING is 100% legit, everything about this was memorable and only cemented Brock's status as a top guy. I especially love the pre-match promo where Paul E. is just amping Brock up and talking about how he DESTROYED Hogan. Brock and Paul E. might be the best manager/wrestler combination ever. Nothing else I can really say, I loved this.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I always thought HHH/HBK 3SOH was one of the best examples of a Garbage WWE Main Event, *but Cena/Orton from last night takes the cake for worst WWE Title match in over a decade.* I'm actually struggling right now to come up with a worse one. Cena/Orton managed to make Rock/Cena II look like Benoit/Regal by comparison.


Would you really say it's worse than Orton/Show at Survivor Series though? Not ragging on you or anything, but Orton/Show was a botchfest, a program no one gave a shit about and felt like it lasted 3 minutes at most. Cena/Orton last night at least gets the benefit of an entertaining crowd, Randy doing a better STF than Cena and Cena doing a pretty good RKO (mind you the match was still a dud )


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I saw someone say they can't understand how people are giving Lesnar/Show higher ratings than Orton/Cena. Probably because Lesnar surviving the KO punch, selling it like a boss and hitting an F5 on Show was enough for it to be better than the shitfest that was Orton/Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/RVD :mark: They never really worked together other than this and the Raw match the month before but holy fuck, this is about as perfect as a match that didn't happen frequently can be. They just did everything they could and made it an awesome match. Was also nice that they wore the attire colors that I closely associate them with to make it an even better sight to see. 



Emotion Blur said:


> Would you really say it's worse than Orton/Show at Survivor Series though? Not ragging on you or anything, but Orton/Show was a botchfest, a program no one gave a shit about and felt like it lasted 3 minutes at most. Cena/Orton last night at least gets the benefit of an entertaining crowd, Randy doing a better STF than Cena and Cena doing a pretty good RKO (mind you the match was still a dud )


Not to mention another Crossface appearance with Cole ACTUALLY calling the damn move.

Even I can't defend Orton/Show. All that match had was Orton flexing and hitting the punt, otherwise that was shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When John Cena and Randy Orton take metaphorical dumps in the ring, they produce the travesty that occurred last night. When unk6 takes a literal dump in the ring, he produces an awesome match.

But seriously though. WOOLCOCK is back. We should all be happy for that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else feel like Cesaro was playing babyface last night a bit? I don't remember him going after many faces. Also I think he had the 2nd best performance in the match after Reigns.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> Anyone else feel like Cesaro was playing babyface last night a bit? I don't remember him going after many faces. Also I think he had the 2nd best performance in the match after Reigns.


Yeah I thought so. The super long giant swing was a 'cheer for me' moment for sure.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Raw is must watch for me tonight and I haven't said that about WWE programming in a long, long time. I guess that's a good thing?


Only potentially good thing about Raw is the crowd, and there ia a fair chance the Cleveland crowd will blow.



Brye said:


> Anyone else feel like Cesaro was playing babyface last night a bit? I don't remember him going after many faces. Also I think he had the 2nd best performance in the match after Reigns.


Yeah, it seemed somewhat like he was playing the face. Especially, since he seemed to be waiting for cheers every time he motioned that he would do the Swing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Not like the "fans" deserved any better considering they chanted "Boring" about 10 seconds into the match. No matter what they would've done, crowd was not willing to give it a chance. And I honestly still struggle to see what was so bad about it. I've just heard complaints about the finisher exchanges in the end and yeah, the crowd as if that somehow lessens the effort in the ring.
> 
> Oh well, I enjoyed the match and no one call tell me otherwise.
> 
> ...



I might have missed some of your posts, but man, I don't think a Bryan vs Orton vs Batista match would really be that good. Orton and Bryan had 3 sub-par matches in a row on PPV before delivering that awesome RAW match, so they are 1 for 3 out of their last 4 matches. You add Batista in there, a guy who literally couldn't work last night, and I don't know how that makes for a classic match. Let alone the question of will fans want to BUY another Orton vs Bryan match, even with Batista added into the mix. The thing is, if Batista can't get into ring shape between now and Mania, he could be in the ring with Benoit and Eddie and still manage to stink the joint out. I can't believe he actually came back in this bad of shape, it can take months for guys to get into ring shape when they've been gone for years. Shawn Michaels is the only one who I can remember coming back and wrestling in 20+ minute matches right from the get go, and he wasn't 45 years old and 280lbs.


I just feel like WWE has booked themselves into a corner with this Batista thing. I don't know how they cannot have him in the main event after winning the rumble, but I also don't know how they CAN have him in the main event of their biggest show when he gets winded in 90 seconds.

edit-about Benoit/RVD. I've always loved that match, I really really wish they could have had a real honest to goodness feud to see how awesome the matches could have gotten. That was one hell of a match for two opponents with no real issue or history. Imagine if they had a reason to be fighting each other and were given 20 minutes or so to tell their story. I could easily see them topping the Eddie/RVD Backlash match, and that's a classic in my book.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Brye said:


> Anyone else feel like Cesaro was playing babyface last night a bit? I don't remember him going after many faces. Also I think he had the 2nd best performance in the match after Reigns.


The Real Americans as a whole have been treated as babyfaces by WWE for a couple of months now (in much the same vein as Fandango). They hash-tag "We the People," the commentators get all excited over the Big Swing, etc. Other than a few cracks at Zeb, you'd be under the impression that The Real Americans are the good guys if you didn't know better beforehand.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I just feel like WWE has booked themselves into a corner with this Batista thing. I don't know how they cannot have him in the main event after winning the rumble, but I also don't know how they CAN have him in the main event of their biggest show when he gets winded in 90 seconds.


See, that's the thing. Batista has won the Rumble and there's no way around it. Only solution is to add Bryan to the mix. Or Orton loses the belt to Brock and goes on to face somebody else, but who is there? Undertaker? Wouldn't mind that but they'll probably rather give him a new opponent. The title picture is the only place for Orton be in that I'm happy about and Batista is locked in for that position. Besides, I give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he works off his ring rust in the 2 months that remain before WM.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It's ridiculous how much ass Summerslam 2002 kicks


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Emotion Blur said:


> The Real Americans as a whole have been treated as babyfaces by WWE for a couple of months now (in much the same vein as Fandango). They hash-tag "We the People," the commentators get all excited over the Big Swing, etc. Other than a few cracks at Zeb, you'd be under the impression that The Real Americans are the good guys if you didn't know better beforehand.




Sorry I forgot to respond to your previous post. To be perfectly honest, I completely blocked any and all memory of Orton/Show from Survivor Series ever happening. The whole ordeal was just so stupid and frustrating and the match so crappy that I wish and like to pretend that it never happened. That said, was it worse than last nights Orton/Cena showing? Maybe, to find out for sure that would require me to go back and re watch it, something I have absolutely NO intention of doing. For now, I will say they are tied for worst WWE Title match in recent memory. Ladies and Gentleman, Randy Orton and WWE's Creative Staff!

Seriously, is there a better oxymoron today than WWE Creative? Makes me laugh just thinking about it.


I will say it was nice to see Randy showing some fire last night. Cena no-selling everything just pissed me off even more. Randy heeling it up is still quite entertaining to me, even if he's just going through the motions with the match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I can live with Orton/Batista/Bryan. It isn't ideal but if Bryan's in the title match I can live with it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Uh Oh C2D. Kiss Brock/Orton for the WWE title goodbye.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YES! YES! YES! YES! NO ORTON VS LESNAR ONE ON ONE!!! :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LESNAR IN THE CHAMBER :mark: 

And Cal watching live?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tonites main event looks like a MOTYC

:lmao Brock/orton aint even happening


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao poor Rollins fell again .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Happy to see the FELLA 

have that ME plz :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

THERE'S STILL HOPE!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm ALL for Lesnar in the chamber. Imagine the destruction. Imagine it. Imagine Paul E going nuts on the outside. I cannot freaking wait.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus back is a great thing


Hopefully they give the hometown hero some love :ziggler2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Uh Oh C2D. Kiss Brock/Orton for the WWE title goodbye.


UGH, FUCK. :sad:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, this kinda confirms that Sheamus will turn heel tonight and feud with Bryan at Mania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booo... 6 man tonight is a EC qualifier? I want Roman Reigns in the chamber dammit .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I wont speak until the night is over and everything is confirmed.


Fair enough haha. I can see Taker popping up, costing Lesnar and allowing Bryan to win the title to challenge a heel Batista for the title at Mania and Taker facing Lesnar. Then poor Orton gets left with Sheamus in a nothing match or something. Sorry bro.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nah man, Bryans winning in the chamber

m'kay


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> UGH, FUCK. :sad:


Ah well man, you still get to look forward to Orton in the main event of Mania...

... oh wait, Bryan might end up winning and going on to face Batista if last night swayed Vince enough. I kinda feel bad for you as an Orton mark.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Oh God. They've seeded the plant for Sheamus turning heel at EC. 

FUCK.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bah, this kinda confirms that Sheamus will turn heel tonight and feud with Bryan at Mania.


No Cena in the Chamber or do they find a shitty way to get him in it? Maybe I'll be pissed all over again by the time Raw ends tonight but right now I'm thinking Reigns turns face and Bryan, Sheamus and Cena qualify for EC.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:lmao


Zeb Colter is the best. I love his sign, and smacking Swagger around was priceless


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Fair enough haha. I can see Taker popping up, costing Lesnar and allowing Bryan to win the title to challenge a heel Batista for the title at Mania and Taker facing Lesnar. Then poor Orton gets left with Sheamus in a nothing match or something. Sorry bro.


They just confirmed the chamber on commentary. 

I can still see Orton getting in the WM main event if Bryan wins the title inside the chamber by using his rematch clause making it a triple threat.

But who knows, maybe Brock shows up in an hour and says he wants a one-on-one shot so the chamber becomes a #1 contender match or something? Nope, I'm just hopelessly optimistic. :sad:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What the fuck is this? Teasing Swagger and Cesaro breaking up now? Along with The Shield and Cody/Goldust? So they are trying to kill the tag division, yes?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Faceturn for Swaggie ?

^^^ lol thinking the same, they are breaking all these teams up


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Orton/Lesnar/Cena/Sheamus/Bryan/Reigns in the chamber would be :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Orton/Lesnar/Cena/Sheamus/Bryan/Reigns in the chamber would be :mark:


That does sound pretty fucking awesome. Hopefully that's what they run with.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

New Age Outlaws tho


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> They just confirmed the chamber on commentary.
> 
> I can still see Orton getting in the WM main event if Bryan wins the title inside the chamber by using his rematch clause making it a triple threat.
> 
> But who knows, maybe Brock shows up in an hour and says he wants a one-on-one shot so the chamber becomes a #1 contender match or something? Nope, I'm just hopelessly optimistic. :sad:


I get that you're an Orton mark but how is Orton/Lesnar more appealing than both of them and others in the chamber?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I get that you're an Orton mark but how is Orton/Lesnar more appealing than both of them and others in the Chamber?


Because Orton vs Brock in a one on one match is my #1 dream match involving two members of the roster. The chamber should still be epic, but I've really wanted this match ever since Bork returned and the biggest opportunity to do it has been blown. 

Oh well, maybe they still do it down the line for SummerSlam, Extreme Rules or something.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Count to ten :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I still have doubts of Lesnar in the chamber, they just built him up again, and he is a MAIN attaction. Not sure if they will just throw him in their w/ 5 other guys and lose


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Have I mentioned recently that I love Antonio Cesaro? I've said that right? Because.....


I FUCKING LOVE CESARO. What a fucking BEAST. Now that Bryan looks to be getting his spot on top, we need to start a movement to get Cesaro in the main event. This guy is everything Vince & Co. normally looks for in a wrestler, he could be a top heel or the number 2 or 3 baby face. He needs to get more singles matches.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Brock could win the title on Raw and bring the title in and retain in the chamber making him a huge monster, then Bryan gets his shot..


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> I still have doubts of Lesnar in the chamber, they just built him up again, and he is a MAIN attaction. Not sure if they will just throw him in their w/ 5 other guys and lose


They can come up with a good out for him to lose. Taker distraction or interference would work fine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or have all 5 guys deck him with their finishers one after the other.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> I still have doubts of Lesnar in the chamber, they just built him up again, and he is a MAIN attaction. Not sure if they will just throw him in their w/ 5 other guys and lose



My thinking is, they obviously won't have him eat the pinfall. If he's in the chamber, they are gonna use it as a way to set up Lesnar/Taker. Maybe Lesnar makes some snide comments about how he decimated Taker in the Cell match so this chamber will be no problem either. They can have Lesnar run wild in the chamber, about to score the win, when Taker pops up through the floor and tombstones Lesnar. Bryan can then hit the running knee on Orton and score the victory, setting up 2 of the main events for Mania.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No Orton/Lesnar? Good. All they need to do now is take Orton off the PPV cards altogether because he's a piece of crap. hahahahahaha I'm kidding HE'S WORSE THAN CRAP THEY SHOULD FIRE HIM FUCK HIM hahahahahahah EAT SHIT.


Ooooh what did Cesaro do?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> They can come up with a good out for him to lose. Taker distraction or interference would work fine.


Yeah, I guess a Taker dong for a Bryan roll up would be :mark: too


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit Wade. Stop mocking Miz. I'm supposed to hate you FFS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> No Orton/Lesnar? Good. All they need to do now is take Orton off the PPV cards altogether because he's a piece of crap. hahahahahaha I'm kidding HE'S WORSE THAN CRAP THEY SHOULD FIRE HIM FUCK HIM hahahahahahah EAT SHIT.
> 
> 
> Ooooh what did Cesaro do?


 He made Sin Cara his bitch, that's what.

Sin Cara hit this springboard, goes flying through the air looking like he's about to score the victory, when Cesaro catches him with the most European Uppercut you've ever seen. Then he hits the Equalizer and wins the match. Cesaro=amazing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Who is playing Sin Cara now, btw? Anyone know?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I'd rather be in Chyna
EDIT: Hunico


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Who is playing Sin Cara now, btw? Anyone know?




Hunico. He's infinitely more suited for WWE wrestling than Mistico, atleast IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do all American shows have this many adverts or is it just a Raw thing?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Do all American shows have this many adverts or is it just a Raw thing?


All of them. It's the main reason the only thing I watch is sports, wrestling dvd's, a few HBO shows on DVD's, and the Science and History channels (they don't have many adverts at all).

My brother in law is from Manchester and he can't stand watching TV in America because he grew up without having an advert break every 10 minutes.

But RAW is worse than most shows as far as how many commercials they run and the frequency with which the ad breaks come.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its insane. They had ads... then back to Raw with Fandango making his entrance... and then ads again :|.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Do all American shows have this many adverts or is it just a Raw thing?


lol yea but not this MUCH, USA is like the jobber channel of all channels though :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Its insane. They had ads... then back to Raw with Fandango making his entrance... and then ads again :|.


Wow to be honest this is worse than it normally is. I swear, after the opening segment, we've had a 2 minute break every 5 minutes. The fuck. I normally DVR Raw cause I have work early in the AM I didn't remember it being this bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh look. MORE FUCKING ADS. That's like 3 ad breaks in less than 10 minutes :|.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This is why I have only watched Raw live around twice in the last 5 years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Its insane. They had ads... then back to Raw with Fandango making his entrance... and then ads again :|.


Was it this bad 10-15 years ago? I watch the old Raw/SDs and even though they have commercials frequently, there are still 20 minute matches where they take no breaks. (Austin/Benoit for instance)

Nowadays, they show a backstage segment, a video about so and so and an entrance then cut to commercial again. It's pretty much an every five minute kind of deal. Why I don't really enjoy watching Raw live. Good thing in these times, there's shitload of things to do when waiting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw wasn't live over here 10-15 years ago so I couldn't tell ya .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Lesnar. KILL ORTON. KILL GRAMPA 'TISTA.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

C2D just died inside


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

BROCK IN DA HOUSE.


I still get goosebumps every time his music hits. He's got more presence than anyone I've ever seen in wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wwe trolling the fuck outta everyone so many matches being hinted


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All hope is not list, motherfuckers! :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

BROCK/ORTON PLZ

Batista cant work shit


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd say C2D was probably pretty happy with that last segment. :brock :rko2 :batista2

The chamber match is looking pretty good at this point. How long until WWE fucks us all?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Battle of Cleveland :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock Vs Orton... on Raw :lmao. Not even good enough for PPV 8*D.

IF any of the matches happen, I smell shenanigans and no proper match taking place.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> All hope is not list, motherfuckers! :mark:




All hope was never lost , I can almost guarantee you that this is just setting Lesnar up for being in the Chamber with Randall. I can't say it's a lock that we aren't getting Randy/Lesnar, but it's about as close to a lock as you can get. Lesnar does not wrestle on free TV, and Batista doesn't wrestle period.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, I must say, brilliant way to hook us for the rest of the show. Either we get a title match, or we got Brock/Batista on Raw! :mark:

...Or we get what will actually happen, and that's that the authority puts Brock in the EC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PLEASE WWE, Book Bork/Orton for the title and put Batista in Randy's place to defend his title shot! :mark:

Match wont happen on Raw because the 6 man is probably main eventing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I doubt either of those matches happen tonight. A man can hope though. Have Brock beat Batista for the Mania title shot and Bryan wins the chamber. It's what the people want.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Brock to win the title plz


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph such a jobber nowadays they dont even acknowledge the Hollywood Fl. shit anymore :ti


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Miz vs Ziggler for battle of Cleveland? More proof Cleveland sucks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao a "Cleveland sucks" chant... in Cleveland... during a "battle of Cleveland" match :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cleveland fpalm 

WOAT city


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cleveland soo sorry :lmao crowds fucking shit


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I doubt either of those matches happen tonight. A man can hope though. Have Brock beat Batista for the Mania title shot and Bryan wins the chamber. It's what the people want.


I would regain faith in WWE.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It was a "Steelers suck" (Cleveland's rival AMERICAN FOOTBALL team), not a "Cleveland sucks" chant btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thank fuck my stream died and forced me to go to another. This one is a UK one. No more terrible US ads (was there an ad for an actual TV show where they throw some fat hillbilly family into high end Hollywood? THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT? :| ) .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> Dolph such a jobber nowadays they dont even acknowledge the Hollywood Fl. shit anymore :ti


You must be depressed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Crowd didnt even pop for Brock Lesnar


^^^^ haha its just funny, atleast he won I guess


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Thank fuck my stream died and forced me to go to another. This one is a UK one. No more terrible US ads (was there an ad for an actual TV show where they throw some fat hillbilly family into high end Hollywood? THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT? :| ) .


That's just the tip of the ice berg for American ads. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cleveland is officially one of the worst crowds ever. God what a shit hole city, no wonder Lebron bounced to South Beach.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cleveland does sound pretty boring. South of the US is where it's at afaik. Cali, Florida, Texas... all the places I would wanna visit. Cleveland? Not so much.



King Cal said:


> Thank fuck my stream died and forced me to go to another. This one is a UK one. No more terrible US ads (was there an ad for an actual TV show where they throw some fat hillbilly family into high end Hollywood? THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT? :| ) .


Wait, there are American streams? :| I don't know but every stream I've found has been from Sky Sports since the get go. The one I always use for Raw I've bookmarked and have used for three years now.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Brye said:


> That's just the tip of the ice berg for American ads. :side:


If you were only a Chargers fan, we'd be best friends. Also a Nuggets and a die hard Red Sox fan. You have great taste in teams my friend :clap


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that last tag match was good. Gave me a chance to watch some more House .

Edit: Oh look, Kofi. Back to House it is!!!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Well that last tag match was good. Gave me a chance to watch some more House .
> 
> Edit: Oh look, Kofi. Back to House it is!!!


I'm thinking the same thing. Well nothing to do with House but there's so many guys on this roster that I have zero interest in watching. Rybaxel, Kofi, Fandango, Truth. Seriously man, get rid of some of the dead weight. Go back to 2 hours if you have to.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They could get rid of like 10 people and give their salary to BROCK for more matches per year.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Lmao JBL is such a smart ass, I love it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao at the fans caring so much about the match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Kofi has delivered three GOAT matches in three consecutive weeks. DAT KOFI.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

USOs vs Rybaxel was exceptional, possibly ***


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I wasn't paying attention to that tag :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They're trying to make it seem like Brock is wrestling tonight. Not falling for their tricks. I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

I don't think there's any way the Shield wins tonight vs Bryan's team right? After last night, it only makes sense for them to break up tonight. Give Roman Reigns some time to shine alone, he deserves it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally, a match worth seeing. And it only took 2 hours...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp I just watched Bryan/wyatt, thought it was ok at best WAYYY too long, dragged


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Come on SKINS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still better than EVERY Ziggler match, even including Payback with Del Rio 8*D.

And I am actually being serious .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> They're trying to make it seem like Brock is wrestling tonight. Not falling for their tricks. I'll believe it when I see it.


lol no, he isn't. The main event tonight is the six man. At most, they'll just let us know if Brock will take on Orton for the title or challenge Batista's title shot. Either of them will take place at EC.

Brock is a special attraction, they wont just give him wrestling away on free TV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah match dragged, cut 10-15 and its awesome, I liked Bryan aggressiveness and wyatt weird mannerisms, but way to long, kept losing interesting hoping it end


Stop Cal


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not my fault you can't sit through an awesome 22 minute match... .


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

SKINS25 said:


> Welp I just watched Bryan/wyatt, thought it was ok at best WAYYY too long, dragged


seriously are you trolling?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Road Dogg rules. His new gimmick should be that he's constantly confused and scared during matches :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^^:lmao 

skins is just stupid 

I'm kidding of course, but that was a solid matc


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LESNAR~! :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock not in a Raw match? I TOTALLY DID NOT SEE THIS COMING BECAUSE I'M BRAIN DEAD.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Lesnar going to beat up on everyone until he gets what he wants. Don't give it to him! Let him raise hell!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at my stream. While Brock had Cody up in the F-5, the stream immediately skips to Goldust falling down from the F-5. Perfect synergy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

BROCK DA GAWD


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Please just give BROCK his title shot one-on-one and let Batista feel the pain of the chamber instead.

And ff, I got to spread rep around so here I'll tell ya. I don't know about the south but the west is where I wanna go. Chicago does seem like a nice place, though. And I was at the airport there a few years ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AJ :mark:. Shame she's surrounded by unwatchable things.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

King Cal said:


> AJ :mark:. Shame she's surrounded by unwatchable things.


Seriously. It's like they picked up cheap hookers and decide to make them divas. I miss the old divas. Torrie Wilson, Lita, Sable, Trish, etc


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Pacific west is pretty GOATy, but places like Wyoming and Montana are just plain shit. And in America, it is an unspoken agreement that Texas just plain sucks. Avoid places like Alabama or Mississippi. And Florida ain't that amazing.

Texas does have the best class of wrestlers coming from there. Undertaker + Austin + HBK + Henry.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

I'd put all these divas through the table with a 3D.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Now I remember why I don't watch full episodes of Raw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the bright side, this episode of House is really good .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Floridas pretty fun, GOAT theme parks in Orlando, and then the southern part is nice

Just dont come to VA beach, its a wannabe Atlantic city


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Pacific west is pretty GOATy, but places like Wyoming and Montana are just plain shit. And in America, it is an unspoken agreement that Texas just plain sucks. Avoid places like Alabama or Mississippi. And Florida ain't that amazing.
> 
> Texas does have the best class of wrestlers coming from there. Undertaker + Austin + HBK + Henry.


I thought Alabama would be a nice place. Then again, maybe I've listened to "Home Sweet Alabama" too much. 

Texas is also home of the GOATs, the Geto Boys!

The main place I'm targeting is Frisco. Got nothing but positive images in my mind for that place, thanks in part to GTA San Andreas.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> Floridas pretty fun, GOAT theme parks in Orlando, and then the southern part is nice
> 
> Just dont come to VA beach, its a wannabe Atlantic city


Florida is fun. I'm from Miami and go to Orlando every once in a while. Never gets old.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

If Mae Young could take a powerbomb through a table, these divas need to take an F5. It'll provide more entertainment. If not, I'll make sure I hit them all with the stunner when they come to Miami on the Friday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So the next HOF'er is...


...



...




...



JAKE ROBERTS :mark:


----------



## cmiller4642 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jake Roberts!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:yes


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did they forget someone in this show? unk2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol Who is Jake the Snake

Ive only been watching since 98 AE !!!


I'll write a review for bryan/wyatt later


----------



## cmiller4642 (Nov 2, 2013)

John Cena heel turn on Daniel Bryan time


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wait, where the fuck is Punk?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

20+ minute main event? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk is probably selling being put through a table. Or THE AUTHORITY gave him the night off to keep him away. Or he'll randomly show up at the end of the show. I dunno.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The lack of Phil tonight has been upsetting.

Oh well, this main event IS GON' BE GOOD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao Completely forgot Punk had not appeared.

And JAKE deserves that HoF induction to the fullest. Will be great to hear his speech.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk can still be there. It's only 940. Sometimes raw doesn't end til 10 or 20 minutes after 10.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Does this thread have some kind of glitch, or is it just me? It shows it has 322 pages, but the last post is on page 321? I keep clicking the last page and it does nothing haha.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^yes it does, you should file a complaint with cal so he'll actually do something useful


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The pages are always screwed up once the thread goes a while


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> Does this thread have some kind of glitch, or is it just me? It shows it has 322 pages, but the last post is on page 321? I keep clicking the last page and it does nothing haha.


It's not just you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Usually gets screwed up when posts are deleted. Sometimes it thinks the posts are still there, which can add another page, and sometimes it realises they aren't there any more.

I'm on page 129 with no problems anyway so screw the rest of you .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

Christian ‏@Christian4Peeps
Seems a lot of superstars are making their returns on #Raw lately.. I'm throwing a curve.. See you Friday night #Smackdown #OneMoreMatch


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I always thought it was due to deleted posts cry that would indicate Cal was actually moderating :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do you have any idea how many threads I've closed or deleted in the last 24 hours? :|


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal modding :kobe


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:side:

:hb Christian


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Do you have any idea how many threads I've closed or deleted in the last 24 hours? :|


KING CAL doing work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Enough talk of my awesome mod skills. CHRISTIAN.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

CHRISTIAN :mark:

him vs Cesaro at mania plz


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree with Bryan Alvarez I just want Torito/Cesaro lol


----------



## cmiller4642 (Nov 2, 2013)

Cena kicks out of finisher, hits AA

WHAT A TWIST!


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Oh shit, the Wyatt brothers! I was expecting Lesnar or Punk.


----------



## cmiller4642 (Nov 2, 2013)

Wyatts vs Shield feud begins 

EC will be:

Orton
Cena
Bryan
Sheamus
Lesnar
Punk


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

The Shield vs the Wyatt family. GIMME A HELL YEAH


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MOTYC. *****1/4 - ****1/2*


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

It's amazing how quickly people come around.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This chamber will be GOAT


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> MOTYC. *****1/4 - ****1/2*


That's a bit over the top but yeah, very good match despite the non-finish.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Good 6-man tag match. It started off a bit slow but it kicked off like a motherfucker once Bryan got the hot tag. Bryan and Rollins duking it out was awesome and it was really fun to watch. The Wyatt costing The Shield a match could lead to a Wyatt/Shield match. It could happen! :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

SMITTY said:


> This chamber will be GOAT


*Reports post*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

cmiller4642 said:


> Wyatts vs Shield feud begins
> 
> EC will be:
> 
> ...


I think Punk v Kane is more likely than Punk being in the chamber. 

Chamber
Batista/Del Rio
Punk/Kane
Wyatts/Shield


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Elimination Chamber could shape up to have a damn solid card. Then again, I'm pretty sure I've said that about the last 5 PPVs. That and I ended up ordering the Rumble only to get fucked by Dave Batista (I feel like a diva).

STREAM. Oh, and awesome main event/overrun tonight


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Only saw bits and pieces of the 6 man tag. I'll have to watch that tomorrow.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It was good stuff. Here's to hoping that 2014 ends up being nearly as good as 2013 when it comes to TV matches (WHICH IT PROBABLY WON'T BECAUSE THE SHIELD BREAKUP IS COMING AND I CAN'T CONTROL MY EMOTIONS)!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

6 man was pretty good, the crazy finish was abit over the top but all in all good stuff, I'll give it MOTY so far although maybe the rumble match was better idk

Oh forgot to say earlier, that divas match was pretty good, legit


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

6-man tag was great. Not as good as Bryan/Wyatt from last night imo, but easily the second best match of the year so far, imo. ***1/2.

Holy fuck, we're getting Shield vs. Wyatts after all! :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*Shield vs. Wyatts in HIAC @ Mania*

Well...one can only dream. Although it'll probably be a normal six man tag (meh) but HAS to be at Mania.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

THIS MATCH IS MONEY


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

So they seriously had Barrett lead the crowd in "boring" chants during Miz's match?

Sorry, can't get on board with the praise of that. And I don't like Miz at all, but I think that's so indicative of how the company uses you up, and then treats you like garbage. Miz did not deserve the push he got at all, but as far as I know, he's been a model employee, and hasn't bad mouthed them or done any of the things that they supposedly don't like.

So one minute you're so high on him that you have him main eventing PPVS, and then in the next, you're purposely trying to incite the crowd into chanting "boring", which is about as disrespectful as it can get?

This is why I can't take seriously the complaints about Warrior, Goldberg, Lesnar, etc., using the industry for money, and not really giving a shit. They don't give a shit about you, and will intentionally treat you like garbage, even after you were their Golden Boy. I have no problem with anyone not breaking their neck for this company, because it truly is full of vipers. 

And what does it say about the company that they will purposely put on matches like that? And what does it say about the company that they'd give a guy who they think deserves boring chants, such a huge, main event, push?

This company is really a piece of shit. Especially because they've got me actually feeling bad for and defending the Miz.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

LilOlMe said:


> So they seriously had Barrett lead the crowd in "boring" chants during Miz's match?
> 
> Sorry, can't get on board with the praise of that. And I don't like Miz at all, but I think that's so indicative of how the company uses you up, and then treats you like garbage. Miz did not deserve the push he got at all, but as far as I know, he's been a model employee, and hasn't bad mouthed them or done any of the things that they supposedly don't like.
> 
> ...


It's Miz's fault that he's shite and boring. Wade Barrett standing on a large podium banging a gavel and demanding "decorum" is much more interesting than anything Miz has ever done.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Regular-Ass Goon said:


> It's Miz's fault that he's shite and boring. Wade Barrett standing on a large podium banging a gavel and demanding "decorum" is much more interesting than anything Miz has ever done.


You missed the point completely.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Can someone give me a review on No Way Out 2012? was it any good?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> So they seriously had Barrett lead the crowd in "boring" chants during Miz's match?
> 
> Sorry, can't get on board with the praise of that. And I don't like Miz at all, but I think that's so indicative of how the company uses you up, and then treats you like garbage. Miz did not deserve the push he got at all, but as far as I know, he's been a model employee, and hasn't bad mouthed them or done any of the things that they supposedly don't like.
> 
> ...



Well said. I hate the miz but this angle is going too far.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd also go ***1/2 on the ME tag, probably the third best match of 2014 behind Wyatt/Bryan and the actual Rumble.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

***1/2 for the six man tag as well. 

IMO, 2nd best match of the year behind Bryan-Wyatt (***3/4).

Wyatt Family vs. The Shield :mark:


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anyone seen the Jake Roberts: Pick Your Poison DVD? Is it good?

I realised after seeing his HoF induction video that I've only ever watched a few random promos (which I quite liked) from Jake Roberts, his short match with Austin at KotR 96 and whatever happened after when Lawler kept mocking him and his alcoholism. Nothing else.

So I would like to see his story and his work, including some good matches.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

That was a suprisingly good RAW.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Wyatt/Bryan ***1/2
Show/Lesnar **
Cena/Orton :lmao dud
Rumble ***

Watched Steamboat/Flair from Clash of the Champions, great match.
They almost went the distance but it didn't feel like it.
Bout to watch the 3rd match from WrestleWar.




Twisted14 said:


> Has anyone seen the Jake Roberts: Pick Your Poison DVD? Is it good?
> 
> I realised after seeing his HoF induction video that I've only ever watched a few random promos (which I quite liked) from Jake Roberts, his short match with Austin at KotR 96 and whatever happened after when Lawler kept mocking him and his alcoholism. Nothing else.
> 
> So I would like to see his story and his work, including some good matches.


Only saw the documentary which I thought was great.
Its pretty dark as he talks about his family and his struggles with addiction.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So remember when I asked for a wrestler to write five matches on and I said the first person to answer would get to pick the wrestler and some jackass said Khali? You remember that? Well no shit you don’t because it had no significance on anything ever. Fuck you @ whoever it was that picked Khali. So anyway I watched two matches and gave up for literally months before deciding to return to it because I am masochistic. I said it would be done and I am a goldfish of my words. 

Khali v. Kane (SmackDown 9/18/09)
Only like seventy seconds, but I saw Khali hilariously throw the worst clubs I have ever seen after the collar/elbow. Commentators talked about how these two had a PPV match or match on Raw or some bullshit and Khali’s idea of revenge was THOSE. Kane rolls out of the ring to get a breather and dodge the Khali Head Squishing Device, then when Khali follows him Kane knocks a chair into him and the match ends. The post match beat-down features an incredible moment where Kane pulls one steel step thingy off of the other, and then takes like twenty minutes to drag Khali over to them. Kane proceeds to pummel the shit out of Khali’s leg with one sets of steps (lifting the steps like they’re nothing, and pretty obviously not hitting the leg), and I swear to God, Khali didn’t change his facial expression, react, or practically even move. We get it dude, you’re big - you can’t be very agile. But you have a voice, right? You can act like you’ve felt pain, right? What selling. All of India wept. Fuck this man.

Khali v. Michaels (Raw 5/7/07)
Pretty boring. Michaels had kind of sucky offense but at least brought some energy to this. Still…..pretty boring. I’d think a guy like Shawn who’s had tons of good matches against bigger guys would do a better job of facing a giant – even one as shitty as Khali – but it was just so full of nothing. Unsurprisingly Shawn’s offense was unconvincing, but what actual kind of baffled me was that Khali’s was kind of unconvincing as well. Yeah, like, he sucks and shit. And he sucks shit, but he’s massive as fuck so getting offensive moves on a below-average sized wrestler like Michaels should look good to at least some degree. He does this irish whip and Shawn decides to do the turnbuckle flippy things and it just looks like the stupidest fucking thing in the world. Khali didn’t whip him hard enough for Shawn to go anywhere near it but it looks like Shawn runs an extra two metres and flips over the buckle and just looks terrible. Back when I watched this when it first aired in my country I was a massive Michaels mark, and even back then I thought it was stupid that he’d try to go for the superkick against Khali. It’s 2013 now; I’m pickier with wrestling and have gone way down on 2000s Michaels. Math is you be doing. Yeah, this was pretty boring. Probably better than Edge/Jericho at WrestleMania, though.

Khali/Natalya v. Fandango/Summer Rae (Hell in a Cell 10/27/13) 
Holy Lord I could watch this for hours. So perfectly put together and formed. It’s like the kind of thing that immediately grabs you, and you feel compelled to keep staring at it until someone actually has to psychically pull you away from it. It does a great job of questioning whether or not what you are watching is real. I’m talking about this, btw; http://www.imagebam.com/image/606d91304363679 . Match obviously fucking stunk. I know a lot of people like Nattie and think she’s really good, but I get tired of her ‘look at me I can wrestle’ shtick really quickly. I get it; you trained with some people - that doesn’t mean all you should do is lame Olympic takedowns. FFS when Summer was boasting about a dropkick and strutting, Nattie’s idea of a stop to that was some lame-ass leg yank thing. As soon as I watched her do that standard headlock takedown where it didn’t seem like it belonged I got annoyed at what was to follow. I literally sat here watching her do this ‘turn headlock into hammerlock even though Summer didn’t get out of the headlock’ nonsense and audibly said “Oh my God stoooooop…..” Only possible good reason for any of it was to get Summer scared in one of her earliest matches but that doesn’t make what she was doing any more fun. Fandango working Khali’s leg was nonsense as well. He used his fucking shin on a kneedrop. Trash. 

Khali v. Orton (SmackDown 8/12/11)
HOLD ON FUCK THAT I SEE SOME BEEF IN THE YOUTUBE SUGGESTIONS-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Khali v. Ezekiel Jackson (SmackDown 8/26/11)
BEEF. OK, I didn’t think Zeke did a very convincing job during the Khali Head Squisher 3000, and he picked Khali up too easily at the end, but other than that I thought he was super during these three minutes. Bumping enough to let you know Khali is massive, but not so much that you forget Zeke is also fucking massive, selling the neck grip well, even a bit after hitting some offense. He’s got killer offense sometimes too, especially that first clothesline which was a monster shot. Zeke also getting amped at the beginning with “all right let’s DO this” just automatically gave a good atmosphere. Khali was worthless as usual and he made literally nothing look good other than the accidental shot on Jinder Mashitty (Josh Mathews ran down the Jinder/Khali ‘feud’ and holy shit I forgot how bad it was), but Zeke carried this through. I should watch some Zeke soon. Khali is horseshit, but everyone knows that's why the water is also blue.

OK, Khali v. Orton now: 
Um, wow. Great selling by Orton. No, really. I’m almost at a loss for words. He couldn’t get everything right because Khali’s offense has so little force behind it that Kofi Kingston giggles at him backstage, but whenever something looked mildly OK, Orton sold it really damn well. Thought he was really super on the neck grip, the stair shots, the initial collar/elbow throw, and he made getting clotheslined over the top rope, landing on your feet and falling into the barricade actually pretty believable. When Orton got a chance to get on offense though…..blehhhh. Orton can sell for a giant but his comeback moves of ‘punch’ and ‘stomp’ are not anything I can buy at all. Kind of ignored all of the pain he put over during the neck grip, too (seriously, he was great during that). I thought Khali did something cool by countering the RKO attempt into the Your Head Is A Soda Can (which looks rubbish no matter what the seller tries to do), but he randomly throws Orton into a turnbuckle corner and takes, like, 20 seconds to try to chop him. Orton obviously gets time to react because Khali is a fuckhead. Still, Orton working on the bottom made this watchable. Not legit ‘good’, but I need no picture of Lucy Pinder for it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

You watched all those but not the redeeming Cena (one night stand) and Taker (last man standing) matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I remember when I posted that 

Go watch a Rick rude match to forget khali 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**** for the last night's 6 Tag. That Superman Punch is executed in a masterfully way by Reigns


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

LilOlMe said:


> So they seriously had Barrett lead the crowd in "boring" chants during Miz's match?
> 
> Sorry, can't get on board with the praise of that. And I don't like Miz at all, but I think that's so indicative of how the company uses you up, and then treats you like garbage. Miz did not deserve the push he got at all, but as far as I know, he's been a model employee, and hasn't bad mouthed them or done any of the things that they supposedly don't like.
> 
> So one minute you're so high on him that you have him main eventing PPVS, and then in the next, you're purposely trying to incite the crowd into chanting "boring", which is about as disrespectful as it can get?


It's like when heel Michael Cole completely shit on the divas. We all know that 99% of their matches are terrible but it's not exactly helping their morale.

I do find it funny that with another rematchamania heading our way, Miz & Barrett are feuding once more :lol


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Lou ftw.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I should probably watch this six man tag?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's Bryan vs. The Shield so it's obviously worth checking out. Nowhere near their best, though. Was good, not great.


----------



## Juggernaut Reigns (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Best of RAW and SmackDown 2013*










WWE Trolling?


----------



## Andrew_2 (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: The Best of RAW and SmackDown 2013*

They have been releasing these the last few years? The last few are on netflix.
Unless you are referring to something else..


----------



## Juggernaut Reigns (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: The Best of RAW and SmackDown 2013*



Andrew_2 said:


> They have been releasing these the last few years? The last few are on netflix.
> Unless you are referring to something else..


hhh and steph on the front.

Where you can watch Daniel Bryan get screwed for an entire year, all in one DVD set.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm more worried about Big Show being on the cover.

And Bryan didn't get screwed the entire year! Just August-December


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

6 man tag was good, wouldn't call it great. Reigns was a beast in it and the frenetic finishing stretch was a lot of fun. Apart from that though I felt like a large portion of the match was just okay. Not a top 10 Shield tag for me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TAKA MICHINOKU, ANYONE?!?!?!

vs. Christian @ Judgement Day 1998
_This is Christian's in-ring debut apparently. Speaking of which, we need a Christian DVD. Don't even care about a doc, just 3 disc match set, why the fuck not. TAKA starts off hot and drills Christian with the swankiest of no-hand planchas which looks extremely impressive, before Christian later regains the advantage. Some decent, if unspectacular, offence from Christian before he low bridges TAKA, who possibly hits the floor harder than anything I've ever seen. NARSTY. Christian continues to be unspectacular on offence for a little bit longer before Michinoku delivers with a perfect Asai Moonsault. From there the match just kind of floats along, doing very little, until Christian gets the roll up win out of nowhere. Overall, the match is very bleh - TAKA creates a few nice moments but other than that... BLEH._

vs. The Great Sasuke - Raw 7/7/97
_This is much better. Just back and forth between the two guys. Yeah it's a bit spotty and yeah there isn't any rhyme or reason to a lot of what they do, but it's fun as hell. TAKA tries an inside-out Asai Moonsault but slips and instead just jumps off the top rop and nails Sasuke with a back elbow and if anything it looks a hell of a lot more effective. Lawler and Brian Christopher burying both on commentary is hilarious as well. Sasuke then falls back first with Taka barely catching him with a handspring over-thetop-rop-flippy-thing. Sasuke then plants TAKA on his head with a sick looking Awesome Bomb. Is this match ridiculous? Yes. Is this match insulting? Yes. Does this match have botches? Yes. Is this match FUN? YES. WATCH IT._

vs.Pantera - No Way Out 1998
_This is fanfuckingtastic. This is as good as any average WCW CW match, and consider that a compliment considering the huge gap in quality between the two divisions. I don't know who this Pantera is but some of his offense is insane, and obviously TAKA bumps like an absolute maniac for him. Pantera works over TAKA's spine with a mix of submissions, power moves and flying shit - All of which makes for a really entertaining work over when coupled with, once again, Christopher and Lawler's berating of Michinoku at ringside. TAKA's comeback and victory is pretty uninspiring but it's short and to the point. MUST WATCH. LIKE NOW. ALL OF YOU. It's great _

Need to finish my CV, so I'll probably do a bit more later. Maybe. I dunno. Probably not. Possibly. Anywho, TAKA is underrated. Very underrated. Might watch some of his shizz from Japanland later, although 5 minute LHW matches sounds fun also.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taka/Sasuke at Canadian Stampede is really good too. i do need to check out a couple of multi man ECW tags involving Taka at some point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michinoku Pro 10-man tags must be watched to realise TAKA is totally five stars and was one of the best wrestlers in the world in 1996. Watched three of those and he quickly became a favourite of mine. Watched a few more and he became a top ten favourite of all time.

Givesme another wrestler to watch 5 matches of.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^Christian 

that should be a good pick


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Michinoku Pro 10-man tags must be watched to realise TAKA is totally five stars and was one of the best wrestlers in the world in 1996. Watched three of those and he quickly became a favourite of mine. Watched a few more and he became a top ten favourite of all time.
> 
> Givesme another wrestler to watch 5 matches of.


How about good ol' *Matt Borne*? (AKA the 1993 Heath Ledger Joker - he could've been BETTER than Heath Ledger Joker for me, which is quite the stretch but I've made my mind, but then again, my Batman fandom is slightly bigger than my WWE fandom so I'm biased, if you'd ask me between a WrestleMania and The Dark Knight Rises back when it premiered, I would've said TDKR)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Royal Rumble was fantastic!

Well I should say the crowd was :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll hop on some M-Pro 10 man tags, then. (Y)

WATCH WRATH AND MORTIS. vs. Outsiders, vs. La Parka and Psichosis, vs. Faces of Fear etc.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Even though this thread can be quite argumentative since there are many ideas on what constitutes a great match, I think we can all agree that one day a best of Shield DVD needs to be released seeing how it seems like for the past year we have gotten A or B quality matches for what seems like every single week and I am sure there are some great matches undermined by more recent other great matches. I would certainly welcome it. They have had an hell of a run in the ring and that Shield formula just seems to work every time the guys just have great complimentary chemistry.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Christian, Matt Borne, Wrath & Mortis. I can do that.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Even though this thread can be quite argumentative since there are many ideas on what constitutes a great match, I think we can all agree that one day a best of Shield DVD needs to be released seeing how it seems like for the past year we have gotten A or B quality matches for what seems like every single week and I am sure there are some great matches undermined by more recent other great matches. I would certainly welcome it. They have had an hell of a run in the ring and that Shield formula just seems to work every time the guys just have great complimentary chemistry.


That set will be must-buy when it comes out. Will be quite difficult to pick the matches tho.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to start Vengeance 04....

Not sure how I feel about this card


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The main of last night was good, not great mostly for I didnt care for the spamming of the finishers + finish.

I will need to watch it down the line, but as it stand I think bryan/wyatt was ok but not great. My main cons w/ it was it dragged to me and it seemed like it was never ending, just lost interest towards the end


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> About to start Vengeance 04....
> 
> Not sure how I feel about this card


It's a decent show.

But Jericho/Batista :no:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is Orton/Edge on that show? That match is good iirc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is Orton/Edge on that show? That match is good iirc.


Yep, it's MOTN.

Benoit/HHH is solid but nothing great. Don't remember anything else aside from Jericho/Batista.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So skip Jericho/Batista?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

An opinion and question regarding Cena. My opinion for a pending Bray/Cena match is from an in ring perspective though, you couldn't have picked too worse of an opponent for Bray seeing how while Bray is rapidly making his mark, he is still a new face in the grand scheme of things and by nature needs a wrestler who is a great seller in order to get Bray that monsterous effect. Bray while a large man is no super heavyweight and is too new to have the potent offense reputation stick so that he can be seen as a threat no matter who he faces, hence the need for Wyatt to be paried with a good seller right now. John Cena while a good big match performer is generally horrendous at selling if he even elects to sell at all, which given this match is going to be Bray's second (arguably first) major contest and debut on the grandest stage if this goes for mania, this could bode horribly for Bray given that he isn't near the level that Bryan or even Punk are where even if Cena isn't selling you can still through your in ring ability pull a great match out of him. One spark of hope for Bray though is that years ago Cena used to really sell for Umaga and the two worked really well together. Bray isn't the size Umaga was but posseses a similar enough skillset for Bray and Cena to be able to have a match with the same elements Cena vs Umaga had minus the whole Cena struggling to do the AA bit and the match would be fine if Cena would sell for Bray like he did Umaga. However, in 06/07 Cena wrestled with a bit of a chip on his shoulder to prove he could work and deserved the face of the company billing and 7 years later that chip is gone, but that doesn't mean Cena can't turn back the clock.

My question regarding Cena is that last night Reigns broke the grip of Cena's STF. Has anyone else done that? I seem to recall Umaga doing that at one point but am unsure if my recall is correct. Perhaps Khali did?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> So skip Jericho/Batista?


I'd watch it to have your own opinion, but if you skipped it you wouldn't be missing anything.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Foley Da Gawd :lol


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

FLUX said:


> TAKA MICHINOKU, ANYONE?!?!?!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is Funaki the ref?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> The main of last night was good, not great mostly for I didnt care for the spamming of the finishers + finish.
> 
> I will need to watch it down the line, but as it stand I think bryan/wyatt was ok but not great. My main cons w/ it was it dragged to me and it seemed like it was never ending, just lost interest towards the end



Man I'm really surprised you didn't enjoy Bray/Bryan. It was 20 captivating minutes for me. I felt like I was finally "getting" Bray as a character after watching it. Before, I found the little ring work I'd seen from him to be plodding and sloppy. Last night, I don't know what it was but it just seemed like he turned the viciousness up a level and was doing his damnedest to make Bryan suffer. He couldn't of had a more perfect opponent than Bryan, so I'm gonna wait and see if it carries over to future matches with different opponents, but I came away really impressed with Bray as a worker after the Rumble. I think **** is fair.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Did anyone seem the similarities to Danielson/Morishima in Bray vs Bryan?

Obviously the former trumps the latter but still


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In terms of _Michinoku Pro_, this is considered pretty legendary:

*Dick Togo, Taka Michinoku, Shiryu, Men's Teoih & Sho Funaki vs. Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Tiger Mask IV, Gran Naniwa & Yakushiji (10/10/1996)*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

With the impending inclement weather, I decided to go to an old favorite: the Hell in a Cell DVD. Just finished Trips/Batista and FUCK. This is one of like, 3 or 4 matches that I mark for every time I watch, and this time was no different. Batista was still a bit green, but had the two main event matches with Hunter under his belt and did pretty well, but without Hunter the veteran in there selling the shit out of that, it might not have been so great. Batista's selling was okay, but Hunter sold everything like death. I mark for the chair wrapped in barbed wire everytime, and that spot with Hunter coming off the middle turnbuckle with the chain, only to have Batista catch him in the throat with the sledgehammer and convulse - good God almighty. 

Now onto DX/ShowMahons from Unforgiven 2006. This is a personal favorite, and a pretty decent match. The repeated onslaught on Big Show's manhood :lol "You screwed Bret" chants from the Toronto crowd :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> "You screwed Bret" chants from the Toronto crowd :lol


Whatever do they mean?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^looks like me and you are battling through the same storm HHH 

do you live in Northern NC?

In other news, Vengeance 04's undercard sucks, taking a break for now


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Exclusive: WCW Greatest Pay-Per-View Matches DVD Cover Art Revealed*

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wcw-greatest-ppv-matches-wwe-dvd-cover/59662/


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Southeastern North Carolina. Mostly just rain right now, but the snow is supposed to be coming in a bit. My parents in southern Virginia have gotten snow already.

Edit: I kind of like that DVD cover.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Damn its going that far south?

Yeah its snowing here already

we got three inches last week but its supposed to be close to a foot this time


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:flair3 country ayyy HHH

need to check that taka/tajri match out


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Storm is coming from the south. Winter Storm LEON.

WOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Clint Eastwood said:


> In terms of _Michinoku Pro_, this is considered pretty legendary:
> 
> *Dick Togo, Taka Michinoku, Shiryu, Men's Teoih & Sho Funaki vs. Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Tiger Mask IV, Gran Naniwa & Yakushiji (10/10/1996)*


Heh, funny you should bring this up, coz' as soon as Yeah mentioned M-Pro 10 man tags, this was the first (and only, so far) one I watched. Yeah it's pretty fucking great, although I'm a bit gutted I probably watched the best of the bunch first  I'll probably watch some more M-Pro tomorrow, or maybe watch some of the ECW M-Pro 6 man tags you alluded to a little while ago. I guess the point of this post is to fully endorse this match -

I know _SOME_ of you _MAY_ have this preconceived notion that Japanese wrestling isn't as good as American, or it isn't your thang, throw that notion out of the window and watch this. So good, so fun and even though it's 30 minutes, it goes so quick.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Storm is coming from the south. Winter Storm LEON.
> 
> WOOOOOOOOOO


WOOOO! 

Did you get 2K13 yet? I haven't gotten FIFA


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> WOOOO!
> 
> Did you get 2K13 yet? I haven't gotten FIFA


Bro, I got sick with a stomach bug last Thrusday, and stayed in bed, then was out of town all weekend. 

Still have WWE '13 though :kobe3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> Yeah it's pretty fucking great, although I'm a bit gutted I probably watched the best of the bunch first


IMO it isn't. Might only be the third best of that year.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Bro, I got sick with a stomach bug last Thrusday, and stayed in bed, then was out of town all weekend.
> 
> Still have WWE '13 though :kobe3


I'm up for it tonight if you want

anyone else can play if they want too


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FLUX said:


> Heh, funny you should bring this up, coz' as soon as Yeah mentioned M-Pro 10 man tags, this was the first (and only, so far) one I watched. Yeah it's pretty fucking great, although I'm a bit gutted I probably watched the best of the bunch first  I'll probably watch some more M-Pro tomorrow, or maybe watch some of the ECW M-Pro 6 man tags you alluded to a little while ago. I guess the point of this post is to fully endorse this match -
> 
> I know _SOME_ of you _MAY_ have this preconceived notion that Japanese wrestling isn't as good as American, or it isn't your thang, throw that notion out of the window and watch this. So good, so fun and even though it's 30 minutes, it goes so quick.


Yeah ive only seen a bit of Pro myself tbh  Recently picked up a 12 Discs comp that covers the best years though 

Came across these ECW matches that feature Taka:

Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh & Dick Togo vs. Great Sasuke, Gran Naniwa & Gran
Hamada (2/14/97)
Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh & Dick Togo vs. Great Sasuke, Gran Naniwa & Gran
Hamada (2/15/97)
Dick Togo, Terry Boy, & Taka Michinoku Vs. Gran Hamada, Gran Naniwa, & Great Sasuke (Hardcore TV, 3/27/97)
Taka Michinoku, Mens Teoh & Dick Togo vs. Great Sasuke, Gran Naniwa & Masato
Yakushiji (4/13/97)

(Hardcore TV, 3/27/97) i have seen, as its on the ECW: Unreleased Vol 2 DVD, and its really good IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> I'm up for it tonight if you want
> 
> anyone else can play if they want too


Yeah, we'll do that. SKINS, we'll expect you as well.

So, the six man HIAC at Unforgiven held up for me. It's just a super fun match for me. Between Shane taking crazy fucking bumps and Vince's diabolical actions mixed with his almost cartoonish selling, plus Show being a strong big man even though he's neutralized with the attack on his junk, it comes off pretty well. If I were to rate it, it'd be a strong ***1/2, maybe ***3/4. 

Batista/Taker time. Never seen this before actually.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm putting in my SNME DVD now , havent seen anything from it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> I know _SOME_ of you _MAY_ have this preconceived notion that Japanese wrestling isn't as good as American, or it isn't your thang, throw that notion out of the window and watch this. So good, so fun and even though it's 30 minutes, it goes so quick.


Who actually thinks that  athough tbh two different animals and competely different styles, would be unfair to compare


Lol I hate that too, I hate when I watch the best match of a specific series of matches or wrestlers catolog first, everything else will never top it


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Took out some of the most random WWE PPV DVDs that I have from the last 8 or so, closed my eyes, and picked one up to watch. Picked up Unforgiven 2008. Got pissed, then remembered that HBK/Y2J unsanctioned match is on there and the scramble matches weren't all that bad. Gonna try and get through it tonight with a review to follow.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm about to check out the Benoit/Michaels match from Raw in 2004. Haven't seen it in ages and curious to see how well it holds up. I remember enjoying it more than the Michaels/Hunter match from Raw easier that year/2003, and THAT match is the only Michaels/Hunter match I enjoy.


Wonder where Hayley has been these last few days, curious to hear his thoughts/sarcasm following the Rumble, and if he enjoyed the Bryan/Wyatt match as much as the rest of us.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm about to check out the Benoit/Michaels match from Raw in 2004. Haven't seen it in ages and curious to see how well it holds up.


watched both of their RAW matches last week as part of my ongoing 2000's project. gave both ****1/4 w/May's being > their February match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So what do you guys think the odds of the WWE Title match being a triple threat are?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think they're still slim because the muscle marks in the back still probably want Orton vs. Batista, but I think there's a better chance of a three-way cena5) after the crowds from the Rumble and RAW.

Oh, and I think this year's EC could be the best in years. Then again, I haven't seen quite a few of them


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

If that Batista/Orton match happens it's gonna get booed so much :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> So what do you guys think the odds of the WWE Title match being a triple threat are?


They may make it a Triple Threat, now, I don't think they can avoid the Bryan chants any longer.

But, seriously, fuck Batista winning the Rumble. Bryan could have been in a much better match than Batista VS Orton VS Bryan, if that is what is going to end up taking place.



William Murderface said:


> If that Batista/Orton match happens it's gonna get booed so much :lmao


It's gotten to the point that even the "casuals" would probably boo it. Good.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

If WWE ends up going with Batista vs. Orton anyways (which I think is still very likely), then the rogue chants will make the Pittsburgh crowd from RR look like a graveyard. Well, if there's anyone left in the crowd by then. 8*D


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It should be Bryan vs Punk, Bryan vs Brock, Punk vs Brock, Punk vs Bryan vs Brock.

Those are really the only acceptable title matches.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> It should be Bryan vs Punk, Bryan vs Brock, Punk vs Brock, Punk vs Bryan vs Brock.
> 
> Those are really the only acceptable title matches.


Those all sound good, Bryan VS Brock, and Bryan VS Punk sounding the best.

Would much rather see Punk facing Bryan or Punk than HHH, tbh.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The only people that wanna see Triple H at Mania are the lame Triple H marks.

I hate how WM has become the show for all the old motherfuckers who wanna come back and be the main stars of the show instead of the talent that had busted their asses all year to get to WM.

It's pathetic how they shit on the plethora of their talent and roster.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The only scenario that won't get boo'd at Mania with Bryan out of the title scene is if they let him challenge the Streak. That's really it. And I think there is a MUCH better chance of us getting a lackluster Bryan/Orton/Batista Triple Threat than us getting Bryan in a Streak match. The WWE has really outdone themselves this time by promising Batista the moon in order to get him to resign.

I'd honestly rather see Bryan/Batista in a straight up singles match than a triple threat involving Orton. Batista can just be a muscular heel, hit a few high impact moves, and then let Bryan do the rest of the work. That would be infinitely more entertaining the a triple threat, because every single second it's Orton vs Batista it might just be the cure to insomnia.

If Batista has to be in the main event for the WWE title no matter what, they should just do Brock vs Batista No Holds Barred for the WWE title. That would leave Bryan to challenge the Streak in a sure fire MOTYC, Triple H vs Punk, Shield vs Wyatt's, and then I don't know what for Cena. Orton can get fucked and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> The only people that wanna see Triple H at Mania are the lame Triple H marks.
> 
> I hate how WM has become the show for all the old motherfuckers who wanna come back and be the main stars of the show instead of the talent that had busted their asses all year to get to WM.
> 
> It's pathetic how they shit on the plethora of their talent and roster.


Exactly. It is fucking pathetic that Bryan has worked his ass off all year, and has gotten significantly more over than anyone else on the roster, and then the company has Batista return after 4 years to win the Rumble, after doing fuck all and being a complete after thought in comparison to Bryan. 

Batista VS Orton will be awful if the go through with it. Bryan deserved to win the match, and if not Bryan, it should have at least been Punk. At least Punk is far more entertaining both in the ring and on the mic than Batista, on average. Far superior.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's gonna be hard to have any type of quality match when Batista gets gased in the Royal Rumble, especially when he's the #28 entry.

Batista just needs to fuck off.



> Exactly. It is fucking pathetic that Bryan has worked his ass off all year, and has gotten significantly more over than anyone else on the roster, and then the company has Batista return after 4 years to win the Rumble, after doing fuck all and being a complete after thought in comparison to Bryan.
> 
> Batista VS Orton will be awful if the go through with it. Bryan deserved to win the match, and if not Bryan, it should have at least been Punk. At least Punk is far more entertaining both in the ring and on the mic than Batista, on average. Far superior.


Could not say it any better (Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spoiler: SD



SHIELD VS WYATTS :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SMITTY said:


> Spoiler: SD
> 
> 
> 
> SHIELD VS WYATTS :mark:


So psyched!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Might have to buy EC now :mark:

EDIT:


Spoiler: OMG



CESARO IN THE CHAMBER!!


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Spoiler: SD



SHIELD VS WYATTS :mark:

Plus Cesaro in the Chamber! :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> The only scenario that won't get boo'd at Mania with Bryan out of the title scene is if they let him challenge the Streak. That's really it. And I think there is a MUCH better chance of us getting a lackluster Bryan/Orton/Batista Triple Threat than us getting Bryan in a Streak match. The WWE has really outdone themselves this time by promising Batista the moon in order to get him to resign.


That's the thing that boggles the mind for me, Why would they offer these big things to Batista, it's not like he's in the same league as Austin, Rock or Hogan even the Ulimate Warrior was a bigger star then Batista. The crowd seriously couldn't care less, his arrival hasn't exactly blown the roof of the place. He was never the best worker unless he has a Taker, HHH or Cena in the ring with him. What the Hell is Vince and HHH thinking off, the fan's will shit on that match at WM30 cause We've seen thousand times before and no one gave a damn then either. Even on Raw, No one cared when Orton, Batista and Lesnar were in the ring together.

Having Bryan been pinned by Batista would have the fan's rioted and shit on the ending. Keep Bryan away from that, have him face HHH and have him put Bryan over and then make Bryan the number 1 contender for the title at ER in his home town and have him beat Batista in the ring.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Oh shit my body is ready :mark:


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Spoiler: More SmackDown spoilers



Christian's in the Chamber too! :mark:

This PPV is looking good.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Re: Smackdown news:


Spoiler: spoiler



Wait, so are Cesaro and Christian in the Chamber with Bryan/Orton/Cena/Sheamus? If so, I'm not happy about this lineup at all.

Or are they doing a separate chamber too?

I'd much prefer to see the Wyatts and The Shield inside of a chamber. Much, much, much, more interesting.




ETA: @ smitty:


Spoiler: spoiler



Same reason why some people can be unhappy watching a Del Rio match, even though he's an incredible worker. You need more interesting personalities and dynamics in there as well. Especially a match like an Elimination Chamber match.

And how do Cesaro and Christian even logically fit into this all?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Wait, so are Cesaro and Christian in the Chamber with Bryan/Orton/Cena/Sheamus? If so, I'm not happy about this lineup at all.
> 
> Or are they doing a separate chamber too?
> 
> I'd much prefer to see the Wyatts and The Shield inside of a chamber. Much, much, much, more interesting.


fpalm

how could you be unhappy? Its 5 GOAT workers plus Orton


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Spoilers dude, but yeah I thought there would have been another heel in there..


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

:mark:



Spoiler: SD and EC



CESARO AND CHRISTIAN IN THE CHAMBER!!! I would've loved to see Lesnar in there but there's no way I can complain about Cesaro and Christian. This has the potential to be one of the best ECs ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Elimination Chamber 2011 was the best Chamber/NWO/NYR PPV for me. What a card:

Alberto Del Rio vs. Kofi Kingston: ****1/4*
World Heavyweight Championship Chamber: *****1/2* (DAT DREW!)
Corre vs. Santino/Kozlov: ***
Jerry Lawler vs. Miz: ****1/4*
WWE Championship Chamber: ****** (DAT PUNK/MORRISON)

Just another good PPV in a year full of them.

Rewatched last night's main event. :lmao at Ambrose's sell of Sheamus' brogue kick. Still my favorite match of the young year, which you can extend all the way to a few more months prior to 2014. Cena's FIP segment was one of the best in his career. All six guys beasted out there.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Gah, with everyone marking out over the last two spots in the Chamber, I wanna check the spoilers. I'll let it surprise me. :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its Hulk Hogan and Sting PGsucks


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

:mark: :lol

I probably won't even be home for SD now that I think about it...eh, I'll find out when I torrent the show. Any matches worth watching for those who read the spoilers (a yes/no would suffice)?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> :mark: :lol
> 
> I probably won't even be home for SD now that I think about it...eh, I'll find out when I torrent the show. Any matches worth watching for those who read the spoilers (a yes/no would suffice)?


yes


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well shit, this SD is gonna be a must-watch (or download) then.

Boy do I miss last semester, when I actually had enough free time to watch random matches on weeknights :vince7


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The matches look good on paper anyway. Hopefully they got decent time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The chamber just got much better. But PLEASE WWE, remove Orton from it and replace him with Batista. Surely BROCK is going to get what he wants after all this talk of scouting Randy Orton? :brock



Spoiler: SD



CESARO getting in it is :mark: Hopefully that leads to a push for him. He better make the WM card this year.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

ERM What?

Where does that leave :brock

IWC getting excited about christian FFS :side:


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

YoungGun_UK said:


> ERM What?
> 
> Where does that leave :brock
> 
> IWC getting excited about christian FFS :side:


it was ruse to get Brock pist off and so he can destroy everybody for not getting what he wants (and also protect him from losing). Wouldn't surprise me if he hi-jacks the main event and destroys everybody in the Chamber than either same night or next day *Gong*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

According to reports Punk told Vince he's had enough and he's going home. They've removed him from all advertised events. If true this fucking blows.

...but, it means TRIPLE H VS DANIEL BRYAN at WrestleMania 30 :mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Saint Dick said:


> According to reports Punk told Vince he's had enough and he's going home. They've removed him from all advertised events. If true this fucking blows.
> 
> ...but, it means TRIPLE H VS DANIEL BRYAN at WrestleMania 30 :mark:


Sad, If true, to hear that news as Punk is great.

But...

Bryan/HHH at WM30 with Bryan winning and ending his feud with the Authority coming full circle. Would be Epic!!!.

Punk/HHH should have had a great match but sadly it burned out with the wrong man going over back in 2011.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

If Punk ends up staying home for Mania, Bryan vs. HHH would be awesome (assuming Bryan fucking goes over :HHH2), but that means Batista vs. Orton would be inevitable.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

PGSucks said:


> If Punk ends up staying home for Mania, Bryan vs. HHH would be awesome (assuming Bryan fucking goes over :HHH2), but that means Batista vs. Orton would be inevitable.


That's the worry for a lot of people about that match would Bryan go over, I'm 50/50 on it really. It be a awesome match though, Bryan can make HHH pick his game up that's for certain. Plus HHH knows that Bryan is the man to work with.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Trips is a fucking idiot if he goes over Bryan.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Punk just really wanted that WM main event huh?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Punk story bummed me out, so I decided I'd read the SD spoilers and find out who was in the EC to cheer myself up 

:mark: :mark: :mark: at the lineup


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

End of an era guys. The greatest wrestler of all time will now be eating ice cream and going to bad baseball games. So long Punk, at least you're closer to us hometown faithfuls :batista3


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> End of an era guys. The greatest wrestler of all time will now be eating ice cream and going to bad baseball games. So long Punk, at least you're closer to us hometown faithfuls :batista3


I'm Sure all his millions and AJ at his side will sooth his pain.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, Elimination Chamber this year looks pretty damn sweet:



Spoiler: Smackdown



According to Smackdown spoilers, *Shield/Wyatts* was made official for EC. And you also wanna know who qualified for the last two spots in the Chamber match? *CHRISTIAN AND ANTONIO CESARO!*



:mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I'm gonna cry unk3. This is wrestling's greatest loss

Somewhere out there in Norway, C2D is throwing a party and blasting Geto Boys at full volume.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Billion Dollar Man must be dancing the night away wherever he is.

I'm gonna WAIT AND SEE with the Punk situation though. I wouldn't be _too_ shocked if he ended up coming back.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not even Finlay can help alleviate the pain.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Where dies this leave Brock at EC then? Surely not just doing a run in or something.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

How bad is Henry's injury? MAYBE we'll finally get Lesnar/Henry, I doubt it though. I'm happy with the two matches already announced anyway  Shame the "non-chamber" announced match isn't saved for Mania, though. Oh well.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not even Finlay can help alleviate the pain.


Finlay can alleviate any pain that's not Taker losing the streak or retiring


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Guys, I was just driving to work and I heard a spot on the radio advertising for the Raw Super Show before Mania, and CM Punk was definitely advertised as being there in 6 Man Tag with Batista and Cena vs ADR, Bray, and someone else (can't remember). 

There is still hope. He might just be resting up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I just checked the SD spoilers. :mark: the actual show looks amazing on paper thanks to a couple of matches + the outcome of some of those matches too :mark:.

What's this about Punk?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> So I just checked the SD spoilers. :mark: the actual show looks amazing on paper thanks to a couple of matches + the outcome of some of those matches too :mark:.
> 
> What's this about Punk?


He's took his ball and gone home, apparently.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh. Well... honestly can't say I'm too bothered. Ever since SS with Brock he's been a lazy cunt anyway. Not like we're missing anything from him right now. Maybe he'll just take some time off and hopefully come back refreshed, if he comes back at all. But I'd sooner see his spot open up to someone else than see him have it and be an unmotivated fuck with it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk really needs a long hiatus after Mania if he decides to work it, not only 2-3 months, more like one year, one year and a half maybe, two even. He's not passionate about this anymore, he never tweets about his job anymore, only about NHL or Ronda Rousey . When he tweets about his career he is calling his own match a "shitty" one. I'd really want him to go home until next year's Rumble, then return as a surprise entrant, winning the Rumble, main-eventing Mania against Cena, and then he can retire as he pplans in 2015


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Smackdown looks good for once. I'll have to check it out. Two good matches planned for Elimination Chamber already, sweet.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I'm gonna cry unk3. This is wrestling's greatest loss
> 
> Somewhere out there in Norway, C2D is throwing a party and blasting Geto Boys at full volume.


C2D is from Sweden.



Cactus Jack said:


> Guys, I was just driving to work and I heard a spot on the radio advertising for the Raw Super Show before Mania, and CM Punk was definitely advertised as being there in 6 Man Tag with Batista and Cena vs ADR, Bray, and someone else (can't remember).
> 
> There is still hope. He might just be resting up.


Cards are always subject to change, but I reckon Punk won't miss Mania - but I think this will probably be his last Mania.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Agreed. Punk had the perfect match against Brock at Summerslam, if he really is as burned out as he appears he should take a break for 9 months to a year, minimum. Bryan can have his spot as the 1B baby face to Cena's 1A, Cesaro can have Bryan's spot delivering 10-15 minute classics every week on Raw and Smackdown as the #2 face. I think we can all be happy about that, take a shitty situation and find the good in it.

Somewhere, C2D is sitting at his computer with the biggest shit eating grin on his face the world has ever seen :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chamber match does look super sweet. I just hope Brock is in a meaningful match at EC though too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

(Spoiler incoming) Just a thought but maybe Christian is simply a pawn to get more "beast heat" on Lesnar. Christian wins his qualifier, opens the show next monday making an emotional "I'm back" monologue talking about how while out he realized that he is in the twilight of his career and he is determined to pull through that "one more match" and FINALLY become WWE champion to ride into the sunset. Brock Lesnar's music hits as Heyman declares that since the authority has denied Brock Lesnar his title shot, Christian is next up to face the wrath of Brooooock Lesssssssnarrrrr! and then Brock goes on to dismantle Christian while Heyman once again warns that this is the fate for the entire roster if the authority don't come to their senses and in a callback to Steph's comments about caring for other superstars last night, Heyman warns that the Authority should change their tune. Later in the show it is revealed that Christian has serious injuries and will not be able to compete in the Chamber match leading to HHH coming out to begrudgingly grant Lesnar his wish. The crowd then boos as this monster has destroyed perhaps Christian's last title hopes This is unlikely due to Christian's actual promotion upon return but seeing how Vince originally wanted Christian's face covered in a blue dot, seeing how Christian is often used as an attack decoy anyways, seeing how Christian is often repressed and seeing how Christian's character has become a so close yet so far type sympathetic veteran anyways, I would not be shocked


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Meh, Punk.

Punk picked a terrible time to do this if true, though. Still has been on again off again for a while now. 

So time off is needed, he deserves it. Just a bad time to do it


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not a very big Punk fan but it's a big shame if the rumours are true.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WrestlingOracle said:


> (Spoiler incoming) Just a thought but maybe Christian is simply a pawn to get more "beast heat" on Lesnar. Christian wins his qualifier, opens the show next monday making an emotional "I'm back" monologue talking about how while out he realized that he is in the twilight of his career and he is determined to pull through that "one more match" and FINALLY become WWE champion to ride into the sunset. Brock Lesnar's music hits as Heyman declares that since the authority has denied Brock Lesnar his title shot, Christian is next up to face the wrath of Brooooock Lesssssssnarrrrr! and then Brock goes on to dismantle Christian while Heyman once again warns that this is the fate for the entire roster if the authority don't come to their senses and in a callback to Steph's comments about caring for other superstars last night, Heyman warns that the Authority should change their tune. Later in the show it is revealed that Christian has serious injuries and will not be able to compete in the Chamber match leading to HHH coming out to begrudgingly grant Lesnar his wish. The crowd then boos as this monster has destroyed perhaps Christian's last title hopes This is unlikely due to Christian's actual promotion upon return but seeing how Vince originally wanted Christian's face covered in a blue dot, seeing how Christian is often used as an attack decoy anyways, seeing how Christian is often repressed and seeing how Christian's character has become a so close yet so far type sympathetic veteran anyways, I would not be shocked


Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

But you could of put this in spoiler tags. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Notes:

I don't blame the Punker. He's the martyr for all us fans to put up w/this awful WWE product.

Danielson vs Bray Wyatt was a sweet contest. Sleeper good stuff as it progressed. Result legit shocked me, although, idk why w/how Danielson is booked. Forever underdog.

lmao @ the rest of Royal Rumble. Holy crap, guys.

Roman Reigns' swagger is off the charts right now.

SHEAMUS! And the ensuring six man tag he was in on RAW was back to the status quo of what we got in 2013, really good main event. Sadly these are few and far between atm.

I could shit on some more, but what's the point? All I got.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So I wake up and hear Punk is gone...

FUCK


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Notes:
> 
> I don't blame the Punker. He's the martyr for all us fans to put up w/this awful WWE product.
> 
> ...



Wondering where you'd been.


I haven't had that much fun watching a WWE PPV since Summerslam, but not for the same reasons. Danielson/Wyatt was legitimately great, but the rest of the show was such an abomination that I almost couldn't believe it was happening. That Pittsburgh crowd will forever go down as one of my favorite crowds ever. They finally stood up and said enough is fucking enough, WWE you fucking suck. And it was glorious. Batista coming out, getting boo'd out of the building, blowing himself in 45 seconds, then getting boo'd even more was just icing on the cake. At this point, I actually do hope WWE is stubborn enough to make he last match at WM 30 Orton vs Batista for the title just to see how resoundingly the crowd will crap on it.

Is anyone else still holding out hope that WWE will give us Sheamus/Finlay at some point? I just watched a Finlay match from an indie show in 2012 and he still looked as good as ever. Even if it's just on Raw for 10 minutes, I would be in absolute heaven.

Really happy Christian is back. Now if they just bring Henry back, the kings of the Midcard (Sheamus, Christian, and henry) will all be back in action.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Anybody fancy throwing a handful of names at me to watch on the old youtube? Got the whole day to sit and do fuck all, which means watch wrestling.  Make them as popular or as obscure as you like.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

So, Punk's Top 3 in WWE?

- TLC with Hardy
- Bryan OTL
- Cena MITB?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

C2D is from Sweden? Word, I'm actually thinking of visiting there some time soon.

Go watch some Eddie Guerrero/Chris Jericho tag matches from WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Wondering where you'd been.
> 
> 
> I haven't had that much fun watching a WWE PPV since Summerslam, but not for the same reasons. Danielson/Wyatt was legitimately great, but the rest of the show was such an abomination that I almost couldn't believe it was happening. That Pittsburgh crowd will forever go down as one of my favorite crowds ever. They finally stood up and said enough is fucking enough, WWE you fucking suck. And it was glorious. Batista coming out, getting boo'd out of the building, blowing himself in 45 seconds, then getting boo'd even more was just icing on the cake. At this point, I actually do hope WWE is stubborn enough to make he last match at WM 30 Orton vs Batista for the title just to see how resoundingly the crowd will crap on it.
> ...


It was a crowd after my own heart. Almost couldn't believe all the opinions I had were being chanted at the product. Surprising b/c sometimes audiences would just take it, instead of telling WWE "this stuff sucks". lolz @ the obvious line Cole was fed to end the show. _"Batista wins the Royal Rumble...DEAL W/IT."_ Pathetic.

Sheamus vs Finlay happened in 2009. Went about two minutes and was a squash. Still happened. Bah, we're all disappointed. Wouldn't expect it to happen, however. Not matter how much I would kill for it.



FLUX said:


> Anybody fancy throwing a handful of names at me to watch on the old youtube? Got the whole day to sit and do fuck all, which means watch wrestling.  Make them as popular or as obscure as you like.


Christian is back. Watch loads of his goodies.

Also: La Parka, Shocker, Strong BJ (Sekimoto & Okabayashi), Jimmy Jacobs, Jake Roberts, Alex Shelley, & Disco Inferno. Also anything involving TNA's X-Division circa 2002 - 2006. I've been in a TNA fix lately, so I'll try and make others join in. All of this being random.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ We were both thinking of Christian. 



FLUX said:


> Anybody fancy throwing a handful of names at me to watch on the old youtube? Got the whole day to sit and do fuck all, which means watch wrestling.  Make them as popular or as obscure as you like.




Watch this and tell me what you think. It's seems I'm the only one who ever pimps this match out. One of my favorite cage matches and it's probably my second favorite match from their 2004 feud (behind Mania).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It fits under the umbrella of "everything awesome by Christian" recommended by me, so I agree.

Haven't seen that since the air date, now that I realize. Hmm.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> So I wake up and hear Punk is gone...
> 
> FUCK


Did you finish the Smackdown 08 chamber match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> So, Punk's Top 3 in WWE?
> 
> - TLC with Hardy
> - Bryan OTL
> - Cena MITB?



Bah I'll do a top 10:

1. Punk vs Brock Summerslam 2013 *****
2. Punk vs Cena MitB 2011 *****
3. Punk vs Bryan OTL 2012 ****3/4
4. Punk vs Taker WrestleMania 29 ****1/2
5. Punk vs Jericho WrestleMania 28 ****1/2
6. Punk vs Cena Raw 2013 ****1/2
7. Punk vs Bryan MitB 2012 ****1/4
8. Punk vs Cena NOC 2012 ****1/4
9. Punk vs Jeff Hardy Cage Match Smackdown ****1/4
10. Punk vs Mark Henry NHB Raw ****

-Next up would be a match from the Rey Series, Summerslam vs Cena, or maybe TLC vs Hardy.

Not a bad run for less than 3 years on top. I have watched SS13' so much that now I actually SLIGHTLY prefer Punk/Brock to Punk/Cena, even if Punk/Cena was the more meaningful match and had that frenetic energy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Punk vs Brock is intense and holds up magnificently. Watched it again on Saturday; still gives me the same experience while watching.

Punker vs Hardy Steel Cage needs love. Easy pick for one of his best matches. Tremendous.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, Punk vs Brock is intense and holds up magnificently. Watched it again on Saturday; still gives me the same experience while watching.
> 
> Punker vs Hardy Steel Cage needs love. Easy pick for one of his best matches. Tremendous.



I had just that very moment decided the exact same thing so I changed it to a top 10


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It fits under the umbrella of "everything awesome by Christian" recommended by me, so I agree.
> 
> Haven't seen that since the air date, now that I realize. Hmm.


It's a underrated gem of a match imo. That tells a good story between two former friends who are now bitter enemies, fighting over a women and the feud reaches it's peak in a steel cage match where they destroy each other in the main event of RAW. 

Jericho busts Christian up bad in that match and actually injures him (with a back injury that causes Christian to miss a few months of action and when he returned they continued their feud with the ladder match at Unforgiven).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

I can put together a bunch of his matches to signify his run in WWE as a positive one. Punk put the work in and it showed. Matches vs Morrison - when they found their stride - were all good. vs Regal rules. vs Mysterio killed it a number of times. The RAW matches vs Cena that often get "lost", he made the WM match vs Orton into something good, had some good brawls w/Kane iirc, the best being in 2012, a lot of tags were strong, vs Luke Harper, Dean Ambrose, and Roman Reigns for some recent goodies. I can go on. A sufficient career to have.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> ^ We were both thinking of Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really enjoyed this. The fist half was good, if not slightly average, but the second half was fantastic. Christian's blade job was insane and I adored him slipping and sliding all over the ropes and cage whilst climbing, to sell the beating he'd taken. Also loved how he still tried to escape whilst Trish was in the WoJ. Trish and Tomko were used well and weren't a huge factor in the match and the ending was satsifactory. Christian didn't look weak despite tapping out as he was bloody and beaten and Jericho obviously looked strong. Christian was fantastic and IMO, completely outshone Jericho, but Jericho did his part and did it well. Good match, but I can think of quite a few cage matches I prefer.



HayleySabin said:


> Christian is back. Watch loads of his goodies.
> 
> Also: La Parka, Shocker, Strong BJ (Sekimoto & Okabayashi), Jimmy Jacobs, Jake Roberts, Alex Shelley, & Disco Inferno. Also anything involving TNA's X-Division circa 2002 - 2006. I've been in a TNA fix lately, so I'll try and make others join in. All of this being random.


Jimmy Jacobs :hb

Probably seek out some of his clashes with BJ in 06 and early 07. I can remember their 5YF match being absolute gold. And seeing as you brought up Shelley as well, I'll probably put on Tag Wars 08 for the AOTF/MCMG bout. I know I like it, I know I like it a lot, but on the last watch I can remember thinking that a lot of people thought it was a lot better than I did. We'll see if it changes on this watch. Are any of Jacobs and Shelley's singles matches worth checking out?

Speaking of TNA X-Division, I watched the Impact match between Daniels and Joe, the one where we join in progress, and behind Joe/AJ @ TP, I think this is the best match between any combination of the three. Fucking amazing stuff. Love love love it. RECOMMENDED TO ANYBODY WHO IS ANYBODY.

edit: match is here for anybody interested






*@CACTUS JACK,* I know for a fact you'll adore this. ^ I hope.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, calm your horses a little, will ya? I don't remember reading about Punk's supposed departure being truly official, so calm down, it might not be happening yet. Punk MIGHT be just getting his body a little slack before Mania, then he might leave. He'd be a downright idiot to leave at this stage before WM 30. Let's wait a while to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, my stars at how rad Daniels vs Joe from Impact is. Elite match. Really is the top choice among the Styles/Daniels/Joe pairing behind Turning Point like you said. w/third rounding out to being the AAO 2006 rematch, off the top of my head. Or Styles vs Joe Super X Finals from Sacrifice 2005. (almost on that show, so that'll be a memory worth refreshing soon.)

Jacobs vs Whimer from FYF: Finale is another kind of gold. Their best match out of a brutal series that bred nothing but great work. Yeah, their singles matches are worthwhile. Haven't watched them in a bit, but the memory is positive. Breakout stuff for both. I Quit being the most memorable, per usual. Jacobs had a strong babyface outing in it. You have to see Jacobs vs Danielson from Unscripted III, if you haven't. To keep w/that trend, Danielson vs Shelley from Arena Warfare is WOAH on the charts of "mat wrestling/exceptional ground game" kind of jazz stuff. But that Unscripted III match. Proves exactly how stellar Jacobs is overall.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm actually happy there is someone like Punk out there in the world, who isn't just another yes-man to the authority, and just leaves whenever he feels disrespected..

Punk's (WWE) top 10

1-MITB vs Cena
2-OVL vs Bryan
3-WM vs Taker
4-SS vs Lesnar
5-RAW vs Cena
6-Cage vs Hardy
7-Armageddon vs Rey
8-TLC vs Hardy
9-WM vs Jericho
10-NOC vs Cena

I'm also a fan of his series of matches with Morrison in 2007.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Did you finish the Smackdown 08 chamber match?


I just did, I fell asleep, watching the RAW one ATM

Punk top 10

1: vs Cena MITB: *****
2: vs Brock SS: ****3/4
3: vs Bryan OTL: ****3/4
4: WM vs Taker: ****1/2
5: vs Cena RAW: ****1/2
6: vs Jericho WM: ****1/2
7: vs Hardy cage: ****1/2
8: vs Rey OTL: ****1/4
9: vs Cena NOC: ****1/4
10: vs Henry NHB: ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

A great man that CM Punk is, he cares more about making me happy than his fans. 

I'm sure he'll return and work Mania for that paycheck but I don't doubt that once his contract is finished, he'll go home and it'll be at least a year before he returns, if at all.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Somewhere out there in Norway, C2D is throwing a party and blasting Geto Boys at full volume.





Cactus Jack said:


> Somewhere, C2D is sitting at his computer with the biggest shit eating grin on his face the world has ever seen :lmao





funnyfaces1 said:


> C2D is from Sweden? Word, I'm actually thinking of visiting there some time soon.


:lmao

Yeah, I'm playing just that while singing along "Is it fiction? Is it fact? Is my mind still playing tricks oooooon me?". :lol

And there's nothing exciting about here. Weather sucks and it's generally boring.



PGSucks said:


> Billion Dollar Man must be dancing the night away wherever he is.


BDM was a gimmick poster. He has like 5 accounts and the others are pro-Punk posters.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm gonna miss Punk but he owes us nothing. Put on some amazing performances and if this is it, so be it. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> edit: match is here for anybody interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Added to my YT playlist and will watch as soon as I get home, thanks for the recommendation (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What happen to Punk ? Just got in ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pulled a Steve Austin skins


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This might be the incentive I need for the top 100 Punk matches list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS25 said:


> What happen to Punk ? Just got in ?


He took his ball, and went home.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Looks like this makes my decision for me as to whether or not I go to that houseshow in June. :hb


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Brye said:


> This might be the incentive I need for the top 100 Punk matches list.


:cheer:cheer:cheer


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Good riddance imo. Guy has been mailing it in for months and took the Steve Austin comparisons a bit too far apparently. :hb


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Good for Punk, I still don't want HHH/Bryan tho


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How is that good? He's walking out on his contract. You don't see Ziggler/Sandow/etc. walking out of the company when they're getting buried. Punk is still high on the card, and a match against HHH @ Mania isn't exactly something to scoff about.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just read some articles,  I will miss you BITW one of my all-time favs, made wrestling COOL again

I wish you best in your future endeavors 












So does anyone think he will be back by like summerslam


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

He'll be back soon enough IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Punk/Cena MITB straight through for the first time since it aired (!). Great, but it's not better than Punk/Brock for me. Had a better story and build than the Lesnar match, but he and Lesnar OWNED. Also watched Punk/Bryan OTL for a fresh take. Still #2 MOTY. But fuck the commentary blew chunks with Booker T on there. Glad he's gone. 

Punk Top 5

vs Lesnar Summerslam 2013
vs Cena MITB 2011
vs Cena RAW 2/25/13
vs Bryan OTL 2012
vs Taker WM 29

Of course we don't know what the future holds for Punk, but I frankly would assume the worst, and that is us never seeing Punk again, or at least not for a few years. He doesn't seem to give a shit about the current product, and I wouldn't expect things to get better soon. Sure the talent will be there, but the booking and the writing will likely remain shitty.

Also, Bryan/Trips should have happened at Mania anyways, based on Summerslam-HIAC. Punk getting the match made me happy, but at the same time, if Bryan goes over Hunter at Mania :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> How is that good? He's walking out on his contract. You don't see Ziggler/Sandow/etc. walking out of the company when they're getting buried. Punk is still high on the card, and a match against HHH @ Mania isn't exactly something to scoff about.


He's been doin this for ten years like he said, he is well off on money so why can't the guy take a break?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

If Punk does return. He will most likely be a par timer. And then he'll get everything he ever wanted.

Good game plan if you ask me


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How is that good? He's walking out on his contract. You don't see Ziggler/Sandow/etc. walking out of the company when they're getting buried. Punk is still high on the card, and a match against HHH @ Mania isn't exactly something to scoff about.


Think your missing the point slightly, apparently he was scheduled to win the Royal Rumble until October where that was suddenly promised to Batista to resign which is a spot he's coveted for a long time to finally main event WrestleMania and in all honesty Batista isn't a star you bring back for that spot, Rock? Austin? Yeah they can but Batista isn't that type of 'must see' talent at all. 

So he got moved to face Triple H which he was probably OK with too but the Rumble debacle might have forced WWE to reshuffle Daniel Bryan around and decided to go with Bryan/HHH leaving Punk in complete limbo 

following on from that, hes likely to be pushed down the pecking order in terms of Babyfaces, John Cena, Batista, Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns are all likely to be the big four post WrestleMania.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> How is that good? He's walking out on his contract. You don't see Ziggler/Sandow/etc. walking out of the company when they're getting buried. Punk is still high on the card, and a match against HHH @ Mania isn't exactly something to scoff about.



I disagree. Wrestlers have contracts, but they are in fact independent contractors. The WWE doesn't OWN him. WWE has had no problem in the past re-negging on their deals. In 2007 they gave Mark Henry an ultimatum, either take half the money his contract promised him or he would be released and take his chances in court. Bret Hart got the same deal in 1997. WWE paid Punk a lot from 2011-2014, but he made them even more money. He owes Vince and Co. Nothing. If his body is broken down and he's mentally fried, he has the right to go home.

Have you never quit a job before?

I'd rather Punk leave now, get himself recharged and maybe come back in 9 months or a year. He's doing his legacy no favors by mailing it in for another few months just to finish his contract. 


Let alone the fact that I appreciate him having principles and standing up for them. If part of his reason for leaving his the awfulness that is WWE booking, then good for him. This Batista/Daniel Bryan thing is just totally unacceptable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think I'm missing the point at all. If you need a vacation, you ask for it. The wrestlers aren't independent contractors - they can't go work for anyone else while they're under WWE contract. WWE does in fact own them - or at least their likeness.

Punk didn't earn them that much money imo. I don't think he's as big a star as he nor others make him out to be. That's irrelevant, though, I suppose. 

If he needs time off, ask for it. When you quit a job you typically give a 2-week notice, not just walk out. It's unprofessional. There may be more to the story than what we're reading, so I'm basing this off what I've read. I don't dislike Punk at all, but he has been mailing it in since SummerSlam and I really wouldn't care if he did go home for good. You hate to see things end on bad terms because it may close the door for future returns, but it is what it is.

I'm basically playing devil's advocate here. Didn't Austin catch flack for doing the same thing and has since said that's his one major career regret? Why does Punk get a free pass?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

As much as I dislike Punk, I completely understand him and can't blame him. The dude was treated like a midcarder during his 400 day long WWE title reign, he was definitely promised the WM main event spot in 2011/12, and now all this Rumble/Batista stuff happened. This was the last straw for the guy. It's not the matter of money for him, it's the matter of respect, hence why he didn't care about this year's WM fat paycheck.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

They've known something like this was coming, everyone just thought it was going to be at Payback.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Punk must've really wanted out to turn down that Mania paycheck. Don't guys get like hundreds of thousands sometimes?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think I'm missing the point at all. If you need a vacation, you ask for it. The wrestlers aren't independent contractors - they can't go work for anyone else while they're under WWE contract. WWE does in fact own them - or at least their likeness.
> 
> Punk didn't earn them that much money imo. I don't think he's as big a star as he nor others make him out to be. That's irrelevant, though, I suppose.
> 
> ...




It's similar to the Austin situation but different at the same time. Austin was booked to lose to Lesnar and flat no showed the event. Punk showed up at Raw and spoke with Vince then went home. The WWE HAD to be okay with him going home, or else they could have sued him for breach of contract. Or, the other possibility is that Punk already had completed all the dates required for his contract and he was legally allowed to leave.

TLK you are wrong about WWE "owning" them. CM Punk's likeness probably isn't even owned by them, as Phillip Brooks was going by that name long before he was in the WWE and I'm sure he trademarked it himself to sell his own merchandise. Just because you have a contract with someone doesn't mean you aren't entitled to quit, it just means he can't go then wrestle in New Japan or whatever. I think it's ridiculous that people think Punk "owes" the WWE anything. If WWE wasn't cool with Punk leaving, he wouldn't have just walked out and that's a fact. I'm sure they aren't happy about it but they must consider it a necessary thing.

Bottom line: none of us know the physical and mental toll WWE wrestlers go through. It's better now than it used to be, but it's still borderline insane the amount of mental and physical strain they are under being on the road 250+ days a year and beating their bodies up. You need to factor that in before passing judgement on Punks decision to walk out. Would you rather he ends up like Kurt Angle, a pain killer junkie who should have retired years ago and has to take hand fulls of pills just to make it through a day?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Punked Up said:


> Punk must've really wanted out to turn down that Mania paycheck. Don't guys get like hundreds of thousands sometimes?



Oh yea. Main eventing Mania can sometimes get guys a check in the millions, if they are seen as the primary draw for the event. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Rockys check for WM 28 was in the 7 figures.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> It's similar to the Austin situation but different at the same time. Austin was booked to lose to Lesnar and flat no showed the event. Punk showed up at Raw and spoke with Vince then went home. The WWE HAD to be okay with him going home, or else they could have sued him for breach of contract. Or, the other possibility is that Punk already had completed all the dates required for his contract and he was legally allowed to leave.


Clearly Punk gave them no choice but to be OK with it for now. It did throw a monkey wrench in their plans, though, and that's kind of what I had an issue with. Again, not trying to bash Punk, but moreso play devil's advocate. You're making strong points.



> TLK you are wrong about WWE "owning" them. CM Punk's likeness probably isn't even owned by them, as Phillip Brooks was going by that name long before he was in the WWE and I'm sure he trademarked it himself to sell his own merchandise. Just because you have a contract with someone doesn't mean you aren't entitled to quit, it just means he can't go then wrestle in New Japan or whatever. I think it's ridiculous that people think Punk "owes" the WWE anything. If WWE wasn't cool with Punk leaving, he wouldn't have just walked out and that's a fact. I'm sure they aren't happy about it but they must consider it a necessary thing.


Punk is an exception. Most indy guys have their names changed upon signing with WWE and in that respect, the WWE owns them/their likeness. For the record, I don't think Punk owes the fans anything. It's clear that he's disillusioned with the current product by his recent performances. I'd rather he leave than mail it in as well, but not under these circumstances.



> Bottom line: none of us know the physical and mental toll WWE wrestlers go through. It's better now than it used to be, but it's still borderline insane the amount of mental and physical strain they are under being on the road 250+ days a year and beating their bodies up. You need to factor that in before passing judgement on Punks decision to walk out. Would you rather he ends up like Kurt Angle, a pain killer junkie who should have retired years ago and has to take hand fulls of pills just to make it through a day?


This I will agree with 100%. I'm not entirely sure Punk is leaving because of the physical and mental toll, though, but more of a creative dispute. I'm sure the wear/tear factors into it when he assesses if it's all worth it in the end. 

Good points.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Punk talked about the PPV pay being affected in that interview with Helwani.. he is probably assuming he won't get that much.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think money is an issue for him anyway if he has been saving like he says he has.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk's top 10:

10.vs Mysterio Capital Punishment ***3/4
9.vs Cena NoC ****
8.vs Hardy Steel Cage ****
7.vs Bryan MITB ****
6.vs Hardy SS ****1/4
5.vs Cena RAW ****1/2
4.vs Taker WM 29 ****1/2
3.vs Lesnar SS ****3/4
2.vs Bryan OTL ****3/4
1.vs Cena MITB *****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao The Observer today apparently said WWE doesn't understand why Punk is angry. If that's true, this company couldn't be more out of touch. 

Honestly, I'm beginning to like this. Punk was going to be gone come July anyway, why not hit WWE now? Cause a little extra stir. I honestly doubt Punk plans on coming back as a part timer if he officially goes, doesn't seem like he'd be about that. I think he wants it to be over with.

For the record, it's definitely the unprofessional thing to do, no denying that. Same with Austin.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Colt Cabana is apparently back on WWE's radar. Maybe they're trying to appease Punk :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Clearly Punk gave them no choice but to be OK with it for now. It did throw a monkey wrench in their plans, though, and that's kind of what I had an issue with. Again, not trying to bash Punk, but moreso play devil's advocate. You're making strong points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly, I'm going on the notion that his walking out was 90-95% caused by mental and physical wear and tear, and 5-10% difference of opinion with the current creative direction. I would change my stance and completely agree with you if his walking out was mostly influenced by creative differences. That's what Austin did, I didn't agree with it then and I certainly don't agree with it now. Steve has even said that is the single biggest regret of his entire career. He said that if he had just gone in, talked to Vince, and agreed to job at a PPV instead of Raw none of it would have happened and the fans might have gotten a classic match out of it.

Let's just hope that Punk doesn't end his career this way. He should finish what he started and come back for a nice little run at the end. Walking out is not the way to finish things for good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Honestly, I'm going on the notion that his walking out was 90-95% caused by mental and physical wear and tear, and 5-10% difference of opinion with the current creative direction. I would change my stance and completely agree with you if his walking out was mostly influenced by creative differences. That's what Austin did, I didn't agree with it then and I certainly don't agree with it now. Steve has even said that is the single biggest regret of his entire career. He said that if he had just gone in, talked to Vince, and agreed to job at a PPV instead of Raw none of it would have happened and the fans might have gotten a classic match out of it.
> 
> Let's just hope that Punk doesn't end his career this way. He should finish what he started and come back for a nice little run at the end. Walking out is not the way to finish things for good.


See, and I think that's where we collide on this issue. If he was just mentally/physically worn down, wouldn't he just request some time off instead of storming out of Vince's office? He had some time off after Mania last year without a problem. This is obviously the most important time of the year in pro wrestling, so I have a hard time thinking he'd want a vacation now instead of, say, the end of 2013 when the WWE simply coasts through the last few PPVs. I think the Batista/Rumble thing and the Bryan issue definitely play a huge role in his decision to walk out. 

That being said, we may never know what % of the factors went into this decision. It's just a shame that things end this way if this is truly the end.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> See, and I think that's where we collide on this issue. If he was just mentally/physically worn down, wouldn't he just request some time off instead of storming out of Vince's office? He had some time off after Mania last year without a problem. This is obviously the most important time of the year in pro wrestling, so I have a hard time thinking he'd want a vacation now instead of, say, the end of 2013 when the WWE simply coasts through the last few PPVs. I think the Batista/Rumble thing and the Bryan issue definitely play a huge role in his decision to walk out.
> 
> That being said, we may never know what % of the factors went into this decision. It's just a shame that things end this way if this is truly the end.



I agree with what you said, I'm just saying if Punk wasn't mentally and emotionally spent, would he really walk out of WWE because of how they were treating another wrestler, no matter how good a friend he is? We don't know the mania card for certain, but all signs were pointing to a Punk vs Triple H match, which, behind the Streak match, would be the second biggest match on the WM30 card. An Orton/Batista match would be a distant 3rd to Punk facing Hunter on the biggest stage, fans don't give a shit about Orton or Batista, but Hunter still has a huge fan following and obviously Punk does as well. It would be the reverse of what Punk dealt with during his title reign, his chance to be in a match more important than the title. So I don't know how Punk could be that upset about someone else's position on the card, especially since you don't hear anything about Daniel Bryan rocking the boat backstage and threatening to walk out(although maybe he should).

I have no clue what Punk is thinking obviously this is just speculation, the first thing that popped into my mind when I heard Punk had left. We can all agree that the biggest losers here are us the fans. Even with Punk mailing it in, he was still better than most of the active roster. And he had 3 classic, classic matches in 2013 alone. Looks like we won't get getting the same in 2014.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm definitely not losing anything by Punk walking out. :lol

It's an even bigger win if it leads to HHH/Bryan as it should've been originally.

I have no sympathy for him and not because I "hate" him, but because it's a selfish, douchebag act. Randy Orton was in the same position two years ago with others taking his spot and he faced Kane in a throwaway match in the first hour of WM (pre-suspension before anyone brings that up) AND he lost the match. But he didn't complain, just did his job.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I honestly would rather see HHH/Bryan as well. Makes much more sense from a storyline perspective, and Bryan beating HHH @ Mania is probably the only thing that'll save the fans from rioting during the title match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah HHH/Bryan is definitely the better choice storyline wise (even if any HHH match doesn't interest me at all). I was confused when HHH/Punk for WM was being talked about. Bryan spent months being fucked over by HHH... and then Punk calls HHH "uncreative" in a promo and suddenly that's them set for WM? THE FUCK?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm definitely for Bryan/Trips more than I would be Punk/Trips. I still don't think I trust WWE with Daniel Bryan though. Recently they haven't given me anything to really believe in.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not for either of those matches, Triple H doesn't need to be anywhere on the card.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> I honestly would rather see HHH/Bryan as well. Makes much more sense from a storyline perspective, and Bryan beating HHH @ Mania is probably the only thing that'll* save the fans from rioting during the title match.*


Bryan/HHH Or not, they're still going to shit all over the title match if it remains Batista vs. Orton.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm definitely not losing anything by Punk walking out. :lol
> 
> It's an even bigger win if it leads to HHH/Bryan as it should've been originally.
> 
> I have no sympathy for him and not because I "hate" him, but because it's a selfish, douchebag act. Randy Orton was in the same position two years ago with others taking his spot and he faced Kane in a throwaway match in the first hour of WM (pre-suspension before anyone brings that up) AND he lost the match. But he didn't complain, just did his job.


Wasn't Orton coming off his 2nd strike then?

Punk has balls and principles, I have the utmost respect for him doing that.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Punk walked out. I can't right now. I'd rather he fucks off and we get Bryan/Trips at Mania than he stays and we don't. It's absolutely no loss to me in the slightest but I'll be damned if I'm not busting to see Raw in a couple weeks when they hit Chicago :lol. What a crazy wrestling week it has been but yes, this is probably the best news I've heard in a long time because it makes Bryan/Trips not only highly possible but highly probable too. Since that's the match I want to see most, I don't give a single fuck that Punk is gone. Leave the memories alone...either that or welcome CP MUNK TO DA IMPACT ZONE 8*D !!!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

etrbaby said:


> Wasn't Orton coming off his 2nd strike then?


No. He got the second strike right before June 2012, WM28 was just months before that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FLUX said:


> I really enjoyed this. The fist half was good, if not slightly average, but the second half was fantastic. Christian's blade job was insane and I adored him slipping and sliding all over the ropes and cage whilst climbing, to sell the beating he'd taken. Also loved how he still tried to escape whilst Trish was in the WoJ. Trish and Tomko were used well and weren't a huge factor in the match and the ending was satsifactory. Christian didn't look weak despite tapping out as he was bloody and beaten and Jericho obviously looked strong. Christian was fantastic and IMO, completely outshone Jericho, but Jericho did his part and did it well. Good match, but I can think of quite a few cage matches I prefer.


Thanks. 

It's the little things in this match that we don't see today that added to this match. The blood which was great given how personal their rivalry was at this point, the male on female action with Trish getting involved which you don't see today. And the fact this match was the main-event of RAW which put great exposure on a midcard storyline, something you wouldn't see today. 

I thought the finish was very well done. You had Christian acting like a total prick heel trying to escape when Jericho had Trish in the Walls, and then Jericho realizing Christian was escaping and chasing after him and hitting that double leg take down off the top rope that looked nasty (probably the spot that injured Christian's back) into a walls of jericho which puts further pressure on the back, Christian trapped, bloodied and helpless from no Trish or Tomko left to him is forced to tap out. Loved it. 

It's not my favorite cage match, that would be Edge/Hardy, but this match is definitely _one_ of my favorites.



Brye said:


> This might be the incentive I need for the top 100 Punk matches list.


Do a top 50. Top 100 sounds ridiculous for any wrestler imo and it would take a lot longer to finish. 


Chismo said:


> As much as I dislike Punk, I completely understand him and can't blame him. The dude was treated like a midcarder during his 400 day long WWE title reign, he was definitely promised the WM main event spot in 2011/12, and now all this Rumble/Batista stuff happened. This was the last straw for the guy. It's not the matter of money for him, it's the matter of respect, hence why he didn't care about this year's WM fat paycheck.


Good post.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> I'm not for either of those matches, Triple H doesn't need to be anywhere on the card.


GTFO! 



FLUX said:


> Bryan/HHH Or not, they're still going to shit all over the title match if it remains Batista vs. Orton.


Think it all depends on where it's placed on the card. If it's the last match of the night, then I'd agree with you.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Show was like a long Raw segment. Was the chair demolition the planned 'big spot'?

Crowd was fucking great at Rumble, esp in the Orton/Cena match and the chorus of boos at Batista winning. Rumble match was ok i thought.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm on the fence on this if it is in fact not a work, I will miss him becuz he is Terffic and one of my favorites. But I also agree w/ TLK ( us Gregs think alike ) its kinda weak he took his ball and went home when there are guys as deserving and being buried (Ziggler etc. ) Hell not even a fan of his but damn Sandow is getting dat shovel atm for some reason.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Anyone liked One Night Stand 2007 and 2008?

2007 was pure shit if I remember correctly.

2008 was good with the crazy tlc match and the rko/hhh LMS before it was cut short because of the injury.

The stage was freakin great for these ppv's


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Getting a little tired of the Punk talk. If he's gone, he's gone. I'm a fan, but talking about him endlessly won't bring him back. Chicago (and other RTWM crowds for that matter) should be interesting.

Think I'm bitching on doing the 100 Trips matches and ONLY doing 75. Need to rewatch a few things, but I might release the list today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm definitely not losing anything by Punk walking out. :lol
> 
> It's an even bigger win if it leads to HHH/Bryan as it should've been originally.
> 
> I have no sympathy for him and not because I "hate" him, but because it's a selfish, douchebag act. Randy Orton was in the same position two years ago with others taking his spot and he faced Kane in a throwaway match in the first hour of WM (pre-suspension before anyone brings that up) AND he lost the match. But he didn't complain, just did his job.



Randy Ortons situation and Punks are not even remotely comparable. Orton had been the "anointed one" and given chance after chance after chance throughout his career all while being one of the top guys on the payroll no matter where his placement was on the card. 

Punk earned and worked his way to the top, finally got a title reign only because fan support was so overwhelming that WWE had no choice, then got his title reign treated as a secondary or sometimes third tier attraction. Orton was passed on the card by guys out working him and getting more over in the process, Punk just got passed by Big Dave because he's friends with Hunter. WWE and Vince LOVE Randy Orton, they merely tolerate Punk because he sells merchandise and, has a massive fan following, and puts on good matches.

Come on now, if fan support and match quality were the determining factors behind a guys spot on the card, Orton would be in the mid-card from early 2012-on.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Anyone liked One Night Stand 2007 and 2008?
> 
> 2007 was pure shit if I remember correctly.
> 
> ...


I despise the TLC Match. By far and away the worst of the gimmick. Eurghhh. Complete and utter rubbish. Thats the only match I've seen from ONS08 though. Looking at the card, Umaga/Jeff and Beth/Melina both sound good, I'm going to check them out now.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Getting a little tired of the Punk talk.


Well Since Ive been on the forum only for a split second talk, we are talking about it HHH


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Come on now, if fan support and match quality were the determining factors behind a guys spot on the card, Orton would be in the mid-card from early 2012-on.


Not really considering that crowds went crazy for Orton every week when he was a face despite the lack of direction.

And their situations are very comparable. Orton in 2012 was a guy who had spent several years being one of the top names for the company yet come WM time, he took a backseat to the part-timers, Punk, Jericho and the considerably less over Sheamus and Bryan. ("Yes movement" coincidentally only took off on this night).

Punk has been a top guy for 3 years at this point, but has been surpassed and lost his #2 spot from 2012-early 2013 and similarly, is getting shafted.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> I'm on the fence on this if it is in fact not a work, I will miss him becuz he is Terffic and one of my favorites. But I also agree w/ TLK ( us Gregs think alike ) its kinda weak he took his ball and went home when there are guys as deserving and being buried (Ziggler etc. ) Hell not even a fan of his but damn Sandow is getting dat shovel atm for some reason.


I don't blame Punk one bit, they kept giving him these shit feuds & you got fucking Orton and Batista winning titles and Royal Rumbles.

The WWE needs Punk more then Punk needs the WWE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think trying to compare Punk's situation with anyone's isn't the right way to go about this.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I don't blame Punk one bit, they kept giving him these shit feuds & you got fucking Orton and Batista winning titles and Royal Rumbles.
> 
> The WWE needs Punk more then Punk needs the WWE.


No I agree, the guy has more than an enough reason to be PO'd

Randy Orton has a better spot on the card than Cm Punk :banderas what is life ?


WWE teaching kids, you can be the most boring POS ever, and get a wwe title and main event over and over again


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm oddly not even disappointed by all of this.

Edit:  at the gif William Murderface repped me with.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS25 said:


> No I agree, the guy has more than an enough reason to be PO'd
> 
> Randy Orton has a better spot on the card than Cm Punk :banderas what is life ?
> 
> ...


And throw numerous hissy fits and still become a champion because of his pedigree and past success, it's just ridiculous :no:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Anyone liked One Night Stand 2007 and 2008?
> 
> 2007 was pure shit if I remember correctly.
> 
> ...


I was at ONS 08 and it was a fun show overall. Umaga/Hardy was fun, and HBK/Batista stretcher match is great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I was at ONS 08 and it was a fun show overall. Umaga/Hardy was fun, and HBK/Batista stretcher match is great.


Let's not forget MORRISON OWNS

ONS '08 was really fun though. That 5 way kendo stick match is awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that was the highlight :lmao

MORRISON OWNS. I miss him. 

Yeah, kendo stick match was fun as well. HHH/Orton was on its way to being great, but the injury stopped it short. Probably wasn't going to touch their No Mercy 07 LMS anyway. TLC match was fun for the spots live, but it was a clusterfuck.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can definitely watch the Edge/Taker TLC and enjoy it but I can totally see the gripes people have with it.

My friend actually met Morrison recently. 

Fuck man, that Orton injury looked rough. They ended up having a good LMS a year or so later on Raw. Didn't touch the '07 one which was insanely good, but it was good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KENDO STICK MATCH~! Best thing on the show.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

This thread is turning into something very akin to the ratings thread. What a shame.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We're discussion tv ratings?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> We're discussion tv ratings?


LOL, that's not what that thread is about either. :lmao It's just another mark war thread. Ratings are just a guise.

But on the subject of matches, someone please tell me what they think is the best Chris Jericho match ever.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best Jericho match ever?

vs HBK - No Mercy '08
vs Rey Mysterio - The Bash '09
vs Triple H - Fully Loaded '00

Probably in that order but I'd need to think about it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

RR01 ladder vs Benoit imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't venture out of this thread much so I just go by thread titles .

Best Jericho match... LMS Vs HHH at FL 00. ****3/4. Followed by the Ladder with Benoit at RR 01 ****3/4 for that too. Then Punk at WM 28 ****1/2.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ever? Did he have Super J cup matches? Haven't any of those, but if we're talking WCW or WWF/E, I really enjoyed the Eddie match at Fall Brawl, the Malenko match (where Malenko quit), Fully Loaded against Hunter, RR Ladder match against Benoit, the April 2001 tag with Benoit against the Power Trip, the Michaels match at Mania 19, Michaels at JD 2008, Michaels at No Mercy, Rey at the 2009 Bash, Punk at Mania 28.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. HHH @ Fully Loaded
vs. Eddie @ Fall Brawl
vs. Benoit @ Royal Rumble

Arguably the easiest question ever asked in this thread, ever.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No love for his match with HBK from Mania?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Morrison (Y)

I love his work. Even though he can't talk for shit, he definitely made it up with his matches against the likes of Ziggler, Mysterio, Punk, and others. I thought he was very exciting. I just wished he had average to decent mic skills so that maybe he could get the World Heavyweight Championship, hell, maybe even the WWE title.

I need to watch some of his matches again, especially his 2008-2009 work


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM Vs HBK is great, but hasn't held up too well for me. Used to be ****3/4, now I'd go about **** for it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> vs. HHH @ Fully Loaded
> 
> Arguably the easiest question every asked in this thread, ever.


NOPE !

vs. cena svs 08


dont like that hbk/y2j match nowadays at all, has aged horridly


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

To round out my top five I'd throw in vs Punk - WM 28 and vs Benoit - RR '01.

I really liked the HBK/Jericho '03 match but I wasn't as big on it last time I watched.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> RR01 ladder vs Benoit imo.


Best by far, imo.

Just the perfect ladder match.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I think Jericho's best match was with Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania. It just told a great story on Jericho being the young lion wanting to take the old lion's spot and imo Jericho had his best heel work by mocking Shawn and actually doing his moves.

I'd also put the Rey 2009 series as runner ups. Those matches were so good :lenny


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Morrison (Y)
> 
> I love his work. Even though he can't talk for shit, he definitely made it up with his matches against the likes of Ziggler, Mysterio, Punk, and others. I thought he was very exciting. I just wished he had average to decent mic skills so that maybe he could get the World Heavyweight Championship, hell, maybe even the WWE title.
> 
> I need to watch some of his matches again, especially his 2008-2009 work


MORRISON~!

He was the highlight of that triple threat cage match with Miz/Cena (I think that's who else was in there) and whatever EC match he was in.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> vs. HHH @ Fully Loaded
> vs. Eddie @ Fall Brawl
> vs. Benoit @ Royal Rumble
> 
> Arguably the easiest question ever asked in this thread, ever.



Those would be my 3 choices too, but I think you're forgetting one:

1. Jericho vs Benoit Ladder Match Royal Rumble *****
2. Jericho vs Trips Last Man Standing Fully Loaded ****3/4
3. Jericho/Benoit vs Two Man Power Trip Raw ****3/4
4. Jericho vs Eddie Fall Brawl CW Title Match ****1/2
5. Jericho vs Rey Mysterio The Bash ****1/2

For what it's worth, Steve Austin had Jericho on his show and asked him what his best match was, and Jericho said the Power Trip tag is probably his favorite match of his career.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks, guys! Look at Jericho, bringing in them posts! Haha.

I haven't seen most of the stuff you guys are recommended, so I look forward to it.

The Ladder match vs. Benoit was great, and felt different from most ladder matches.

The Bash '09 match vs Rey...is that the one where Rey had to lose his mask if he loses? If so, yes, that was really good, and soooo slick. They were doing complicated stuff, and made it look easy.

I liked WM 19 vs. Shawn, but didn't love it. Ditto with WM 28 vs. Punk, but to a lesser extent. Felt like the used the "try to get Punk DQ'd" angle, but then completely forgot about it. 'Twas weird.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> MORRISON~!
> 
> He was the highlight of that triple threat cage match with Miz/Cena (I think that's who else was in there) and whatever EC match he was in.


I remember that he had a great match against Jeff Hardy on Smackdown and of course a great ladder match against Sheamus at TLC. Morrison did a nice job selling the injury on that match.

I also remember that he had a match against Daniel Bryan on Raw but I don't remember it being a long one. If both of them had 10-20 minutes, it would've been really exciting.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

One day I'm going to rewatch the three critically acclaimed Jericho series (vs. HBK, vs. Rey and vs. Punk) and see how they all hold up because as much as I am a fan of his character, his work in his second run never really clicked for me, whereas everyone loved the shit out of him, especially in his series vs. Shawn and Rey. Always thought his second run was slightly overhyped and overpraised, although I haven't seen a great deal of it in a few years and my tastes have changed a hell of a lot over the past year or so.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I've never watched Jericho's 2008 matches with Shawn at Judgment Day, GAB, and Unforgiven, but I did watch the NM ladder match and I remember it being good. Some time in the future I'll watch the matches in order to see how good this feud really was since I took a break from wrestling around that time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I remember that he had a great match against Jeff Hardy on Smackdown and of course a great ladder match against Sheamus at TLC. Morrison did a nice job selling the injury on that match.
> 
> I also remember that he had a match against Daniel Bryan on Raw but I don't remember it being a long one. If both of them had 10-20 minutes, it would've been really exciting.


Yeah, TLC match against Sheamus is wonderful. 

Don't recall the Bryan match on Raw, but like you said, given 20 minutes they really could've produced something special imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Conversation about Jomo?

Insert obligatory PIMPING of his match vs. Bourne 4/14/09 here.

By far and away his best match, behind vs. Sheamus @ TLC, IMO.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, TLC match against Sheamus is wonderful.
> 
> Don't recall the Bryan match on Raw, but like you said, given 20 minutes they really could've produced something special imo.







Here's the Raw match if you want to check it out. Like I said, it's not very long lol. Oh man, back in the days where Cole would ruin commentary by calling Bryan a nerd and not focusing on the God damn match. Thank fuck those days are over (well the calling Bryan a nerd days are over at least).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ About to watch that. Thanks.

And @ FLUX - he had two good matches vs Bourne, no? STIFF STRIKES~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Spoiler: Brock



Brock is now not advertised for EC, makes the 'match' against Show even more pointless IMO.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah they had two great matches. One is in 08, when Morrison was teaming with The Miz, and has the sickest of finishes ever, but that match is my least favourite of the two. The other (the one I mentioned) is a week after The Miz gets drafted IIRC, and Morrison is still heel, and is just unbelievably good. When people talk about Jomo, they mainly talk about his work as a babyface (vs. Rey, vs. Sheamus, vs. Punk 09, vs. The Miz etc) but the 4/14/09 match just shows how good he is as a dickhead heel as well. SO MUCH DICKISHNESS. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, someone (probably Cody) reminded me of that match a few months back and I watched it. He was fucking awesome in that match. The finish from the 08 one is :mark: though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's funny, I really didn't like Morrison much when he was Johnny Nitro. It was always exactly when he transitioned to Morrison that I started appreciating him. I still like his old ring work but as a character I liked him a lot more under the Morrison name.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I wanna' find more JOMO THE DICK matches, there's gotta' be more.






:lol :lol :lol

I loved the Festus gimmick tbh, thought it could have had quite a bit of mileage if used correctly. And obviously because Luke Festus Fake Kane Doc Gallows is great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> One day I'm going to rewatch the three critically acclaimed Jericho series (vs. HBK, vs. Rey and vs. Punk) and see how they all hold up because as much as I am a fan of his character, his work in his second run never really clicked for me, whereas everyone loved the shit out of him, especially in his series vs. Shawn and Rey. Always thought his second run was slightly overhyped and overpraised, although I haven't seen a great deal of it in a few years and my tastes have changed a hell of a lot over the past year or so.


Yea same, I find myself really not liking or think wwe Jericho was overrated, he tried to hard it came off to me

Same Bryw on the Jomo topic


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS25 said:


> Yea same, I find myself really not liking or think wwe Jericho was overrated, he tried to hard it came off to me
> 
> Same Bryw on the Jomo topic




I dug the Extreme Rules and Bash matches Jericho had with Rey, and I REALLY dug his Mania match with Punk, but outside of the, Jericho has been below his career standards for the most part work wise since he came back. Character wise he's been great though, I still love the GENUIS of him getting all his heat back after returning by cutting that in ring promo where he says nothing.

WCW Jericho>WWE Jericho. Watching him kill it with the cruiser weights every week is what made me a fan of him in the first place.

Jericho did have some fantastic matches with Rocky in his first WWE run, especially No Mercy which might just be in his top 5. Surprisingly he never had any classics with Eddie while in the WWE, atleast none that I've seen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jesse/Festus. :mark:

I loved the '08 SD tag division.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbh, I'd put WWE Jericho first run > WCW Jericho. vs. HHH Fully Loaded and Raw 2000, vs. Benoit, vs. Regal, Power trip tag, TLC 3 & 4, vs. Rock NM, the series w/ Christian vs. BookDust, vs. HBK WM and Raw, the Christian series in 04. Yeah, it's a longe period of time than he spent in WCW but pick any two/three years out of that 99-05 period and I think it'd be better than Jericho's WCW run.

WWE Jericho first run > WCW Jericho > WWE Jericho second run

edit: @Cactus Jack, did you watch that Daniels/Joe match I linked earlier?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well tbh I never thought much of Chris Jericho as a whole ( japan,wcw,wwe etc)

But if we are talking strictly character wise I'd put his wcw >>>> 08-present>>>> wwf Y2J

Saying that I have to re watch the rey series as well, because I dont like most if not all of the hbk/y2j series 03 and 08


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

DX/Rated RKO - NYR 2007 ******

A really fun bout that is now famous for being the match during which Triple H tore his other quad, but deserves credit for being pretty quality up until and even after the quad tear. Pretty terrific control segment for Rated RKO on Shawn Michaels, with Edge and Orton doing a great job of being the cheap, dirty heels for pretty much the whole match. The dodgy referee job actually made sense in the finish, with him not seeing any of the heel tactics by Rated RKO. Hot tag to Hunter was cool, and he hit his Harley Race knee, and knocked Edge out of the ring, hit the Spinebuster on Orton, which is where he tore his quad. The next few minutes are pretty difficult to watch as Hunter tries to walk on that bad leg, but can barely put any weight on it. It's especially difficult now, knowing how torn up the inside of his knee was, but he soldiered on, and did the best he could, which included hitting another spinebuster, a Pedigree, taking part of an RKO (since his leg gave out and he just went down), and another Pedigree on the announce table. Shawn taking out the ref and going apeshit with the chair was cool. Orton's blade job though :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho's promos/character during the 08 HBK feud were godly iirc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd call Fall Brawl 97 Jericho's best but he wasn't the guy to watch in that match. Hell of all of Jericho's best matches I think he clearly isn't the driving force of any of them. If GAB v. Michaels holds up then he was in that for sure, though. My favourite Jericho period is probably the tag team with Christian v. Booker and Goldust. I think in 1998 WCW he had one of the best characters of all time but I'm not *huge* on his in-ring year. Bunch of good/solid matches as opposed to awesome ones. Actually he had a badass 2001, that's probably my favourite year for him. 


Everyone watch Eddie/Jericho v. Faces of Fear 2/24/97 and Eddie/Jericho v. Chavo/Malenko 2/9/98. Both are probably top ten Nitro matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd call Fall Brawl 97 Jericho's best but he wasn't the guy to watch in that match. Hell of all of Jericho's best matches I think he clearly isn't the driving force of any of them. If GAB v. Michaels holds up then he was in that for sure, though. My favourite Jericho period is probably the tag team with Christian v. Booker and Goldust. I think in 1998 WCW he had one of the best characters of all time but I'm not *huge* on his in-ring year. Bunch of good/solid matches as opposed to awesome ones. Actually he had a badass 2001, that's probably my favourite year for him.
> 
> 
> Everyone watch Eddie/Jericho v. Faces of Fear 2/24/97 and Eddie/Jericho v. Chavo/Malenko 2/9/98. Both are probably top ten Nitro matches.




Seen both of those matches and they are absolutely stellar.

I think I'd like to disagree SLIGHTLY with your statement that Jericho "clearly isn't the driving force in any of his best matches". True, Eddie was the best heel in the world in 1997 during their Fall Brawl match, but should that really count AGAINST Jericho? Just because he was saddled with a vanilla baby face gimmick and Eddie was allowed to be Eddie shouldn't be a knock Jericho, as he was right there with Eddie the entire match, it's not like Eddie carried the damn thing. I think he was actually every bit as good as Rey in their match at The Bash, Rey is obviously Rey, but Jericho was just a great, great heel there. He made it easier than it already is to get behind Mysterio.

Then there is the Last Man Standing match with Hunter, where in my humble opinion Jericho absolutely was the driving force of that match. His selling was downright excellent, and he was just amazing working underneath with a heel as hot as Hunter was in 2000. When I think of that match, the first thing that pops into my mind is Jericho, not Hunter.

I guess I'm not so much disagreeing with you (well, in the case of the LMS match I am, but not the others) I'm merely pointing out that Jericho's best matches were with the likes of Eddie, Benoit, and Rey. As great as Jericho was/is, do you really expect him to outshine 3 of the top 10 wrestlers of all time? At the same time, it's not like those guys carried Jericho in their matches together, as I said when talking about the FB97' match, Jericho was right there every step of the way.


Edit- FLUX I haven't gotten to it yet I've been busy cooking dinner but I promise I'll check it out before I go to bed and give you some feedback.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Does anyone else find WWE's camera work and directing extremely annoying? I mean, every time an impactful or possibly big move is about to happen or happens, the cameramen suddenly get Parkinson's. Not only they shake their cameras, but they also zoom in and out very fast, and directors always change shots, which takes away from possible enjoyment. You practically don't see moves. Every time I watch something from modern WWE, that's the case, and it can't be by accident. Another brainwashing technique maybe? :vince3 Has this been discussed before?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Does anyone else find WWE's camera work and directing extremely annoying? I mean, every time an impactful or possibly big move is about to happen or happens, the cameramen suddenly get Parkinson's. Not only they shake their cameras, but they also zoom in and out very fast, and directors always change shots, which takes away from possible enjoyment. You practically don't see moves. Every time I watch something from modern WWE, that's the case, and it can't be by accident. Another brainwashing technique maybe? :vince3 Has this been discussed before?





Finally someone else brought this up. I mentioned this in the last thread and it got completely ignored. WWE has A LOT of absolutely infuriating quirks in their modern product (announcers not calling the action in the ring, not building shows around the main event, Raw being 3 hours, 75% of the wrestlers wearing trunks and kickpads, the announcers again, etc.) but the way they have changed the way they shoot matches is right near the top of the list for me. Just watch how badly they botch several angles during the Danielson/Wyatt match at the Royal Rumble. It's like these guys are a bunch of amateurs, but it's not. They are the best in the world at what they do, so they must be getting instructions from Kevin Dunn to shoot this way. The most annoying thing they do is changing a camera angle RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HIGH IMPACT MOVE. Seriously, how many times have we missed a move because they change to a close up of the guys crotch or something?? This needs to end.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Here it is. I know you guys clamoring for it. 



> 75. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar Wrestlemania 29
> 74. Triple H vs Randy Orton Royal Rumble 2005
> 73. Triple H vs Sheamus Wrestlemania 26
> 72. Triple H vs The Rock Smackdown 8/26/1999
> ...


:HHH2 :hhh2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX- Just finished the Daniels/Joe match you linked.

I really would have liked to see how much of this match happened before the link starts, as the video starts with Daniels getting busted wide open with Joe running his head into the ring post. They show a replay but I'm not sure if that's all that happened between the start of the match and the clip beginning. The first 8 minutes or so are just a bad ass control segment by Joe. Love the running kicks, and I love that submission sequence when he rolls through 3-4 different moves trying to get Daniels to tap out. Joe hits a Randy Orton-esque rolling power slam that looks just as good as Orton's. One thing I will say is that there were a few sequences that seem a little too well rehearsed, a little too smooth if you will. No matter really just an observation. Beautiful, Beautiful mooonsault from Daniels. The finish was just absurd, how Daniels neck isn't broken I have no idea.

Great, great stuff man thanks a lot for the recommendation (Y)


HunterHearstHelmsley- I'm not a Triple H fan at all, I can tell you put a lot of work into that list though so props. Being a Foley guy, I happen to think Hunter's best matches were Royal Rumble vs Mick, NWO vs Mick, WM 20 vs HBK and Benoit, Vengeance with Batista, and Last Man Standing with Jericho. You might want to edit the Shawn Michaels Summerslam match, it took place in 2002 not 2004 

Props to you for having the patience to sit through 75 Triple H matches. That's an awfully tedious undertaking. And Hunter said on his DVD that his best 2 matches were Royal Rumble with Mick and WM 28 with Taker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The GOAT in the #1 spot. I like.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Metlzers RR ratings: 

The New Age Outlaws vs Rhodes and Goldust: **1/2

Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan: ****

Brock Lesnar vs Big show: *1/4

Randy Orton vs John Cena: ***1/4

RR match: ***1/4

Can't say I really disagree. I thought Orton vs Cena was pretty solid for what it was. Still deserved to get shit on though by it being overdone.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Eddie CARRIED the Fall Brawl match, but ever since first watching it I've always thought Eddie could have had the same match with any wrestler that didn't suck (and Jericho most certainly didn't suck). Jericho was good but Eddie added, like, everything to the match. I absolutely don't think Jericho at the best moment in the his entire career (whatever that is IDK) comes within a mile of Eddie that night. Not a slight on Jericho, because most couldn't touch Eddie that night. The HHH match is arguable but I think Hunter's offense was a lot more interesting than Jericho's selling. I'm remembering specific cool things HHH did right but almost nothing about Jericho's selling being really stand out. I don't really like of any of the Jericho/Rey matches a whole lot anyway and wouldn't call the Bash match one of Jericho's best.

'Jericho isn't the driving force' isn't really meant to be a knock against Jericho, but I don't think he really would have had almost any of his best matches if he was in the ring with different people. I don't expect him to outperform a Rey or Eddie but it's not restricted to them. I think the Rock largely outperformed him at No Mercy 2001, for example. Goldust was the best guy in those 2002 tags. Christian was better in their matches, etc (not that I even really cared for that a whole lot on re-watch anyway). He was better in the Michaels series, but I only really like one or two of those and one would be in his best matches. Go down a few tiers and I think he wasn't the better guy in matches against Scorpio in 1996, Austin in 2001, Henry in 2004, Cena in 2009, Punk in 2012 and stuff. How many good matches has Jericho had against wrestlers who aren't that good, or weren't that goo at the time? 

I went to read about what I wrote about the Bash match over six months ago and turns out it was a bunch of me saying Jericho wasn't awesome in it:



> Not *too* high on Rey/Jericho at THE BASH~. I've made IDK how many posts saying how Jericho isn't a great wrestler, and this pretty much cemented it. This is a period where he was a touted 'Best in the World', in the best match he had that year, and he wasn't THAT good. I mean shit, he was good, he was pretty damn good and I can't actually complain about anything he did. It's just that he has such praise surrounding him and I didn't think his heel work-over period was anywhere near as interesting as Henry's in the Finlay/Hardy matches, Show's in the Cena match, Swagger's in the Christian match, etc. I really loved when he caught Rey's baseball slide and chucked his head into the barricade, the springboard-into-codebreaker counter was perfectly timed and countering a top-rope rana with a jumping powerbomb is something I surprisingly don't see too often. Still, the bulk of the match I couldn't imagine caring as much as I did (which wasn't a huge amount anyway) if it wasn't Rey. It sounds like I don't like Jericho and at this point and even am getting sick of what looks like me shitting on him, but I just keep noticing match after match he doesn't look as impressive as so many say he does. I don't want anybody to read this the wrong way - this is a very good match and a good Jericho showing, just not a great one, and Jericho doesn't stand out more than pretty much anyone else I've watched the past two days.


So yeah, point for Rey.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think Eddie CARRIED the Fall Brawl match, but ever since first watching it I've always thought Eddie could have had the same match with any wrestler that didn't suck (and Jericho most certainly didn't suck). Jericho was good but Eddie added, like, everything to the match. I absolutely don't think Jericho at the best moment in the his entire career (whatever that is IDK) comes within a mile of Eddie that night. Not a slight on Jericho, because most couldn't touch Eddie that night. The HHH match is arguable but I think Hunter's offense was a lot more interesting than Jericho's selling. I'm remembering specific cool things HHH did right but almost nothing about Jericho's selling being really stand out. I don't really like of any of the Jericho/Rey matches a whole lot anyway and wouldn't call the Bash match one of Jericho's best.
> 
> 'Jericho isn't the driving force' isn't really meant to be a knock against Jericho, but I don't think he really would have had almost any of his best matches if he was in the ring with different people. I don't expect him to outperform a Rey or Eddie but it's not restricted to them. I think the Rock largely outperformed him at No Mercy 2001, for example. Goldust was the best guy in those 2002 tags. Christian was better in their matches, etc (not that I even really cared for that a whole lot on re-watch anyway). He was better in the Michaels series, but I only really like one or two of those and one would be in his best matches. Go down a few tiers and I think he wasn't the better guy in matches against Scorpio in 1996, Austin in 2001, Henry in 2004, Cena in 2009, Punk in 2012 and stuff. How many good matches has Jericho had against wrestlers who aren't that good, or weren't that goo at the time?
> 
> ...





All very valid points, I was more just sticking up for Jericho because I doubt any wrestler ever could have outshined Eddie Guerrero when he was on his game like he was in 1997 and 2002-2005. There is a reason outside of Flair for his longevity, I consider Eddie the greatest ever. He's just untouchable when he wrestles like he did in that Fall Brawl matchup.

Agree to disagree about Jericho in that Bash match vs Rey. I thought he was really, REALLY good in it.

Anyway, my point was just because Eddie, Benoit, and Rey are the greatest doesn't mean Jericho sucks, and you seem to agree so no argument there haha. As for your point in the review of the Bash match, can you really hold it against Jericho for not working a control segment as good as Finlay or Henry do? I mean those guys have to be mentioned in any Best of discussions about control segment workers. And Swagger/Christian on ECW in 2009 is one of the 50 greatest matches in WWE history, that match owns on so many levels. It makes me sad Swagger hasn't done more since then, as he was truly great as was Christian in that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not really holding against him for not doing as well as those other guys; those were just matches I watched and wrote on a little earlier than Rey/Jericho, so I made the comparison.  Even then I didn't think Jericho's control was anything realllly noteworthy. It only really looks like I'm complaining about it because it's held in such high regard. If everyone thought Jericho sucked in the match I'd be the one defending him, calling him good. Instead everyone calls him great and I'm still calling him good.

did that make sense? I'm honestly not sure. :SI:

edit where the fucking fuck is the woolcock smiley? You keep fifty thousand of those stupid fucking annoying heads that everyone overuses that was never funny or interesting in the first place, but you get rid of the little yellow guy banging a sheep? Fuck you and fuck your YOU.

edit again saying fuck you twice wasn't enough. FUCK YOU.

edit again again- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0mxOXbWIU


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So are you going to watch five Christian matches?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm gonna miss Punk but he owes us nothing. Put on some amazing performances and if this is it, so be it. (Y)


Agreed. If Billy at Subway no call no shows nobody says anything or asks where he went or how he is doing but CM Punk goes home and everybody loses their mind. Punk is a grown man. He can do what he wants.

He had a point. He was merely a spoke on the wheel.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That reference doesnt even make sense bro


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> That reference doesnt even make sense bro


Thanks chief


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Metlzers RR ratings:
> 
> The New Age Outlaws vs Rhodes and Goldust: **1/2
> 
> ...


Interesting. Meltzer shat all over Show/Orton, so it's not like he has any kind of bias. I really disliked the way people treated C2D like a blind mark, just 'cause he liked Cena/Orton. This just shows you that everyone has vastly different opinions, and no one is really "in the right."

Having said that, I wouldn't go that high on it. I think my instinctive reaction was about ** 1/2. It's a hard thing to rate anyway, since the crowd totally took over.

Another interesting thing is that both Keller and Meltzer rated the TLC match pretty well. Meltzer gave it *** 1/4 and Keller gave it *** 3/4. It really makes me wonder if more emotionally "removed" viewers and casuals see things vastly differently than the way the IWC sees things. I really think so, because I was watching RR with someone who's very casual, and when I explained what the crowd was chanting (at the "this is awful" part) they were like "why? I think it's a good match!" So I really think that the more emotionally removed viewers tend to look at things a lot differently than we do.

The question is, how much of the wrestling audience is made up of people like that, and how much of it is made up of people like us? If there's a much larger portion of the former (which I believe to be the case), that explains why the WWE could give two shits about the fans who complain about things like Cena/Orton yet again. 


Hunter Hearst Helmsely, repped you for the dedication. Stuff like that is always helpful as I'm going back and watching older stuff.


I'll say here right now that I actually loved the HBK/HHH LMS match. I seem to be totally in opposite sync with this thread, when it comes to which HHH matches are good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Interesting. Meltzer shat all over Show/Orton, so it's not like he has any kind of bias. I really disliked the way people treated C2D like a blind mark, just 'cause he liked it Cena/Orton. *This just shows you that everyone has vastly different opinions, and no one is really "in the right."*
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn't go that high on it. I think my instinctive reaction was about ** 1/2. It's a hard thing to rate anyway, since the crowd totally took over.
> 
> ...


This place would be so much better if more people understood that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brye again. unk3 

Bryan/Wyatt was great. 

I seriously nodded off for a couple minutes during Orton/Cena.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Thanks chief


Not even trying to be a dick :draper2 there is obivously a huge difference between the two cases


Ehh I guess, Casuals tend to enjoy the flashy spots, so I can see alittle interes by default in the tlc match from a first timer. TBH I dont know how anyone could enjoy both matches but opinions are opinions


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Everyone be sure to apologize to C2D for bullying him 

But (Y) to your post lilolme


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SKINS25 said:


> Not even trying to be a dick


Likewise. 



SKINS25 said:


> opinions are opinions


Agreed (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Opinions are opinions. Some opinions are insanely stupid though. 

I think I had more of a point to get across but I forgot while typing so I just put the smiley face. It's after 4am and I'm still up. Can't get a fucking doctors appointment for 12 days. 

Dammit, almost remembered what I was gonna say. Ah well. Was gonna be less dickish than "Some opinions are insanely stupid though". I think most in here are smart enough to probably connect those dot thingies and kinda figure out where I was going. If you do, please tell me cos it's gonna bug me until I remember, and the last thing I need is another thing on my mind stopping me from sleeping.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Opinions are opinions. Some opinions are insanely stupid though.


This is why we can't have nice things. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think much of the forum gets caught up trying to one-up people with the opposite opinion. Don't like Punk or don't like Orton, that's fine! Nothing wrong with that. It's the people that act like what isn't their opinion is blasphemy is the problem. Far, far too much of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Good riddance imo. Guy has been mailing it in for months and took the Steve Austin comparisons a bit too far apparently. :hb


Yet mailed in Punk still was one of the very few things worth seeing weekly from this garbage product. :hayden3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So who can upload Punk/Homicide?

GOAT/Jericho ER 12 still holds up really high. On any given night, any of the three big matches on that show are MOTN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm a big fan of the Street Fight. But it doesn't topple Sheamus/Danielson or Cena/Brock. Those are just too stellar.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not too high on the Punk/Jericho street fight. Doesn't come close to Sheamus/Bryan and Cena/Lesnar.

Watching the NYR '05 chamber. Haven't seen it in years.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> No. He got the second strike right before June 2012, WM28 was just months before that.


Something from Keller's latest newsletter caught my eye:


> I’m not sure if Punk being left off Raw on Monday
> has anything at all to do with his being outspoken in
> that interview about the PPV bonus situation going
> unaddressed, but the biggest decrease in Randy Orton’s
> ...



I went back and skimmed through some old newsletters, and saw this:


> Jun 13, 2012 - 6:02:38 PM
> 
> Orton would, though, like the schedule in TNA. He spoke out about six months ago in favor of systematic, mandatory extended time off for wrestlers in WWE. He was the biggest name to come out in favor of that policy, something I’ve pitched for 20 years as the right thing to do for wrestlers’ health and family life, not to mention the best move for business to keep everyone mentally and physically sharp by giving their minds and bodies time to recharge.
> 
> Since Orton said that, his push went down and Sheamus and Punk seemed to move up, if not ahead of him, in the roster depth chart. Interestingly, Arn Anderson came out a week or two ago saying today’s wrestlers in WWE have a tougher schedule than he did in the 1980s and early 1990s. Also, Punk said last week he’s making too much money and WWE’s roster so thin on top that he can’t afford to take time off, but he said he really needs time off. He even said friends are saying how tired he looks.


So Keller has long had the feeling that Orton was depushed due to his comments. Wouldn't surprise me, considering Vince's treatment of Ventura once he caught wind of Ventura talking about unionizing. 

Looking at it even further, the guy who mentioned Orton speaking to him directly about the need for it, is the guy who's been speaking out about the WWE for years, in part due to what happened with Benoit (Chris Nowitzki).

Also interesting to see that even back then, Punk was saying that he needed time off.




> 70. Triple H/Shane/Vince vs Rock/Kane/Undertaker King of the Ring 2000


Watched this a few days ago, and it's a totally fun watch. The dynamic of Rock/Kane/Undertaker not even wanting to tag each other in, was fun. 

That Shane "chokeslam off the turnbuckle into the announcer's table" spot was sick. And they didn't even replay it once! Weird.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Not too high on the Punk/Jericho street fight. Doesn't come close to Sheamus/Bryan and Cena/Lesnar.
> 
> *Watching the NYR '05 chamber. Haven't seen it in years.*


That's ironic haha, I'm about to watch that show as well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

back in a wcw mood now. watched a bit of uncensored 1999 last night. i liked whipwreck/kidman


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> back in a wcw mood now. watched a bit of uncensored 1999 last night. i liked whipwreck/kidman


That ridiculous main even :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

haven't seen it. i really don't think i should. :lmao


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

No you should watch it haha, it shall humor you at least.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> That's ironic haha, I'm about to watch that show as well.


I have no idea what other matches are on that show but the chamber still rules. EVOLUTION


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Am I weird for noticing that some of the best matches from the past couple of years have the exact same match length? Brock/Punk, Cena/Bryan, TLC 6-man & Jericho/Punk Extreme Rules all within a second of each other :side:




Yeah1993 said:


> did that make sense? I'm honestly not sure. :SI:
> 
> edit where the fucking fuck is the woolcock smiley? You keep fifty thousand of those stupid fucking annoying heads that everyone overuses that was never funny or interesting in the first place, but you get rid of the little yellow guy banging a sheep? Fuck you and fuck your YOU.


Did you try typing a colon then woolcock? :draper2


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> edit where the fucking fuck is the woolcock smiley? You keep fifty thousand of those stupid fucking annoying heads that everyone overuses that was never funny or interesting in the first place, but you get rid of the little yellow guy banging a sheep? Fuck you and fuck your YOU.
> 
> edit again saying fuck you twice wasn't enough. FUCK YOU.
> 
> edit again again- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0mxOXbWIU


:woolcock


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Interesting. Meltzer shat all over Show/Orton, so it's not like he has any kind of bias. I really disliked the way people treated C2D like a blind mark, just 'cause he liked Cena/Orton. This just shows you that everyone has vastly different opinions, and no one is really "in the right."
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn't go that high on it. I think my instinctive reaction was about ** 1/2. It's a hard thing to rate anyway, since the crowd totally took over.
> 
> ...




No one was "bullying" anyone. I'd like to think all the regulars in this thread are reasonable enough to share differing opinions on matches and wrestlers without anyone getting their panties in a twist. It just so happened that the majority of people in this thread thought Cena/Orton RR 2014 was garbage, but C2D felt otherwise and stuck up for his opinion, and more power to him. That's why this is really the only place I will post on this entire forum, I don't consider anyone a "blind mark", 9 times out of 10 if someone has a vastly different opinion than others on here, they atleast have a good reason and are able to convey it in a rational way.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Felt somewhat sorry for Rey after watching the Rumble tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Felt somewhat sorry for Rey after watching the Rumble tbh.




I'm sorry as much as I love Rey I really don't think him getting boo'd was that big a deal. He's honestly probably never been boo'd in his entire career, getting boo'd once when he absolutely 100% knows the booing wasn't about him isn't a big deal to me. He had to have laughed a little when he realized he was getting treated like the biggest heel in the world. Rey HAS to know just about every WWE loves, respects, even reveres him. He should have enough confidence and self esteem to be able to shake it off. The WWE should have known better than to send a baby face out last when they realized how vocal the fans were. They should have switched it so ADR was sent last or something, Rey should have been out much earlier than 30th.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm sorry as much as I love Rey I really don't think him getting boo'd was that big a deal. He's honestly probably never been boo'd in his entire career, getting boo'd once when he absolutely 100% knows the booing wasn't about him isn't a big deal to me. He had to have laughed a little when he realized he was getting treated like the biggest heel in the world. Rey HAS to know just about every WWE loves, respects, even reveres him. He should have enough confidence and self esteem to be able to shake it off. The WWE should have known better than to send a baby face out last when they realized how vocal the fans were. They should have switched it so ADR was sent last or something, Rey should have been out much earlier than 30th.


Yeah exactly on that last sentence, a heel would have been a better choice and im sure Rey did have a slight chuckle about that reaction. But from what i have read, Vince has a dislike for Rey nowadays so him being sent out then was somewhat personal, so im sure that played on his mind too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why does Vince dislike Rey these days? Because he's always injured?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Why does Vince dislike Rey these days? Because he's always injured?


From what i have read yeah, seems to be the reason.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm sorry as much as I love Rey I really don't think him getting boo'd was that big a deal. He's honestly probably never been boo'd in his entire career, getting boo'd once when he absolutely 100% knows the booing wasn't about him isn't a big deal to me. He had to have laughed a little when he realized he was getting treated like the biggest heel in the world. Rey HAS to know just about every WWE loves, respects, even reveres him. He should have enough confidence and self esteem to be able to shake it off. The WWE should have known better than to send a baby face out last when they realized how vocal the fans were. They should have switched it so ADR was sent last or something, Rey should have been out much earlier than 30th.


Rey was booed at Mania 22 in Chi Town.

I dont think its that big of a deal but I do think it was a bit silly fans lashed out on him. There was no indictor that Bryan was going to be at #30 and they should of known Rey was coming if they were smart enough and paid attention to the entrants, he was one of if not the last ones to hype up his spot in the rumble in those video packages they were showing.

Agree that it didnt shake him or whatever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on another forum (credit to Bugsey713)



> I got thinking about all the wrestlers that have died and then start thinking about having an awesome show in the afterlife. So with that said normal fantasy booking rules apply but the person must be deceased.


After a quick thought: (matches not in order )

Owen Hart/British Bulldog vs Terry Gordy/Steve Williams

Umaga vs Bam Bam Bigelow

Rick Rude vs Brian Pillman

Sherri Martel vs Fabulous Moolah

Andre The Giant vs Yokozuna

Chris Benoit vs Mitsuharu Misawa

Randy Savage vs Buddy Rose

Eddie Guerrero vs Curt Hennig


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

decided to finally get off my arse and after months of putting it off, start uploading some random matches I've either dl'ed or got on DVD. Because of the recent ongoings and controversy with Punk, I decided my first upload would be a CM Punk match from almost 12 years ago. It's not a great match by any means, but I thought some may want to see it simply due to the fact it's Punk from 12 years ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Saw this on another forum (credit to Bugsey713)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd throw down $100 to see that show on PPV. Scratch that, $200. That would be a GLORIOUS pay per view. You could even switch it up a bit and do Los Gringos Locos Eddie/Art Barr vs Owen and Yokozuna. Then have an underdog face Curt Hennig vs 70s Andre the Giant. And I'd be ALL OVER a 1992 Rick Rude vs 2004 Chris Benoit, or a heel 1997, 2005 Eddie Guerrero vs a baby face early 1990s Brian Pillman. So many combinations.


Flux- did you see my short review of the match you sent? Tremendous match, if a bit spotty at parts.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match upload request if i have it.  Will be upped on DM.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes sir. Glad you enjoyed it. Yeah I can see why you may have found it a bit spotty, but that's just a part of the TNA X-Division style and I think that both Joe and Daniels made it work. I'm glad you enjoyed it, I knew it'd be right up your alley. I personally adore it, I thought Joe is/was (around this time) one of the best when in control and Daniels sells tremendously, I also thought his comebacks were fantastic - Timed perfectly and threw some lovely looking strikes. The Island Driver to finish it always looks sick as fuck, no matter how many times you watch it. If only the match was covered from the start, then I'd probably have it as one of the best TV matches of the year (which is saying something because it's 2006). Even so, I love it and hold it in very high regard and I'm glad you enjoyed it too. Thanks for checking it out (Y)


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*New comp. NXT - Best of 2013.*

Disc 1
Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow - NXT 16.01.2013
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - NXT 06.02.2013
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - NXT Tag Team Championships - NXT 13.02.2013
William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 10.04.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville - NXT 24.04.2013
Paige vs Summer Rae - NXT 01.05.2013
Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt - NXT 01.05.2013
Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - NXT 22.05.2013

Disc 2
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT 12.06.2013
Wyatt Family vs Adrian Neville, Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - NXT 19.06.2013
Bo Dallas vs Antonio Cesaro - NXT Championship - NXT 03.07.2013
Wyatt Family vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & William Regal - NXT 10.07.2013
Adrian Neville & Corey Graves vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - NXT Tag Team Championships - NXT 17.07.2013
Paige vs Emma - NXT Divas Championship - NXT 24.07.2013
Sheamus vs Luke Harper - NXT 24.07.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Adrian Neville - US Championship - NXT 07.08.2013
The Shield vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & Xavier Woods - NXT 14.08.2013

Disc 3
Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - 2/3 Falls - NXT 21.08.2013
Sami Zayn vs Jack Swagger - NXT 04.09.2013
Bo Dallas vs Sami Zayn - NXT Championship - NXT 16.10.2013
Luke Harper vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 06.11.2013
Adrian Neville vs Corey Graves - 2/3 Falls - NXT 13.11.2013
Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn - NXT 27.11.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal - NXT 25.12.2013

*PM me for more details.*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm sorry as much as I love Rey I really don't think him getting boo'd was that big a deal. He's honestly probably never been boo'd in his entire career, getting boo'd once when he absolutely 100% knows the booing wasn't about him isn't a big deal to me. He had to have laughed a little when he realized he was getting treated like the biggest heel in the world.


He was booed during his Royal Rumble hype video, though.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*In the mood to watch some WCW, can anyone suggest a post '96 WCW PPV which was solid all around?*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

STEVIE SWAG said:


> *In the mood to watch some WCW, can anyone suggest a post '96 WCW PPV which was solid all around?*


Maybe Spring Stampede 1999.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to get back on my Vengeance 2004 review, the undercard is a disgrace but I want to get to the IC and WHC matches 

I usually blast through PPV reviews, dont know why this has been so hard ":lmao


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Maybe Spring Stampede 1999.


*Just googled the card and it indeed looks pretty good on paper. I'll probably download it tonight, thanks (Y)*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

STEVIE SWAG said:


> *Just googled the card and it indeed looks pretty good on paper. I'll probably download it tonight, thanks (Y)*


NP.

Blitzkrieg/Juventud Guerrera is really awesome, Hak/Bam Bam is really fun, Rey/Kidman was also good and the four way has its moments,


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Scotty Riggs vs. Mikey Whipwreck sounds fun'ish. Always thought Riggs was decent tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *New comp. NXT - Best of 2013.*
> 
> Disc 1
> Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow - NXT 16.01.2013
> ...




Disc fucking 3 looks absolutely OUTSTANDING. If I didn't already have all those matches due to my Hulu plus account, I would absolutely buy the whole set. Thanks anyway for giving me those dates, as that will make it easier to find them. Repped.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't really watch NXT, but ill be picking that set up. Regal :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> I don't really watch NXT, but ill be picking that set up. Regal :mark:



I PM'd you.

If you still can take an upload request, any chance you have Steamboat vs Regal Halloween Havoc?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I PM'd you.
> 
> If you still can take an upload request, any chance you have Steamboat vs Regal Halloween Havoc?


Yeah mate, ill get that sorted tomorrow. Thanks. 

EDIT - Do you mean Fall Brawl?


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> NP.
> 
> Blitzkrieg/Juventud Guerrera is really awesome, Hak/Bam Bam is really fun, Rey/Kidman was also good and the four way has its moments,


*The PPV is actually up on Youtube.










Sweet :mark:*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The tag match on that PPV is stellar.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Michaels/HHH summerslam​*
So I watched it last night after it was being discussed in the chatbox and it being easily assessable w/ the FCA DVD back on Netflix. So I thought it was solid , not as good as I use to think it was, but it was solid, thought Shawn's babyface performance was pretty good and HHH was good early on. I have just one main gripe w/ this match, it seems like its 2 matches in one. The first half is good stuff, HHH working HBK's back and Shawn selling it very well, the most simple Irish whips were killing Shawn. Jr did a great job playing it up as well. Then the second half hits, and its just this non-stop action summer blockbuster climax for some reason. That part put me off as I had the "ehh ok ? " thought process the whole time. Solid I give it, still mark for the street fight attire HBK had on​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spoiler: Vengeance 2004 review



*Vengeance 2004 review*

*Match #1: Garrison Cade and Coach vs Tajiri and Rhyno
*
:lmao at RHYNO being face, dude is a natural heel but whatever. :mark: for Tajiri and so much :mark: for Rhyno being his partner. The other team is fucking shit though. RIP to Cade(I think?) but he’s not too great iirc. Tajiri is starting out, great choice because Tajiri actually got a fun match out of coach at BL, a true god. I wonder if Tajiri and Rhyno ever had a match on RAW or something like that, because that'd be pretty sick. I need to watch more Rhyno, its extremely entertaining to watch him beat the shit out of people :lol. Too bad that this match is basically a complete carry job by Tajiri and Rhyno. I have no idea why coach is in a match and Cade is nothing special, so this obviously hurts the quality of the match. This had a dull middle portion but got pretty good in the final 2-3 minutes or so. Tajiri mist+ Rhyno spear= a pretty decent match. **1/2

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #2: Chris Jericho vs Batista *

Not in the mood to watch some shitty wrestling. NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: La resistance vs Ric Flair and Eugene* 

God this card has some fucking pointless matches. I don’t want to see the GOAT with those three people. Give me Flair vs Benoit and tell HHH to fuck off for god’s sake! Flair if out thank god if eugene gets more time than Flair in the ring thenn I'm going to be pretty upset, because Eugene is garbage. Pretty terrible match so far. Even though Flair was still great at this time, it was unlikely he was going to be able to put on a fantastic match with 2 shitty opponents and a worse partner. The only good thing about this is Flair hitting chops, because even though hes like 54 years old, he can still hit them chops. But yeah this was complete shit, not entertaining in the slightest. What a waste of Flair. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0

Match #4: Kane vs Matt Hardy *

Ugh, Kane in 2004 was shit outside of his match with Benoit of course. This will just be a ton of bland brawling and Lita being the saving grace by being hot. Kanes old entrance music was so much better than his current one, had a better beat to it. Well we're about 10 seconds into the match and we already have some boring brawling. OK I'm done shitting on this for now, because its been mildly entertaining so far, which is good I guess. So this isn't BAD but it feels really emotionless and it really is just pointless brawling. But then again, I like brawls so this isn't the worst match for me. Crowd doesn't really care about the match and just want to see some cool spots it looks like. So yeah nothing special here but better than some of the matches on this show thats for sure. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5

Match #5: Edge vs Randy Orton* 

OK so this match apparently gets a shit ton of time, and that its one of those matches you either love or hate, so looking forward to getting an opinion on it. So here we go, not sure what to exppect here besides I'll probably have a strong opinion on it, the question is whether it will be good or bad. It takes a good minute or two for them to start actually putting offense in instead of giving each other the stare of death. Match is moving a lot slower than I expected here, thought it would be a really fast paced match but its not. I assume the reason there starting out slow is because this match is gonna go awhile, so it should pick up a bit towards the end. At about 5 minutes in the match does start to pick up a bit, but its still not as fast paced as I thought. The match has still been pretty good so far, not amazing but I'm still enjoying it. So I thought this was decent at best, it was cool seeing the crowd all fired up for Edge but this got too much time and a lot of the match just felt like filler to me. That being said I still liked this, but a lot of you will think that my rating is a tad too low. (Y) for the last 5-10 minutes of the match but the first 10 min or so didn't seem to bring anything to the table and it dragged the match down. The ending was a ton of fun though. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4 

Match #6: Molly Holly vs Victoria*

LOLDIVAS. NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 *

*Match #7: Chris Benoit vs HHH *

This seems like a pointless title match as they have already had two matches together with HBK but I guess no one else fit the bill for the main event with HBK injured I guess. Expecting a good match here but nothing more, as people tell me it’s not that great. These two had an iron man match on RAW around this time that I really need to see, because it is apparently better than this match. But still they probably should have had the IM match on the PPV because this show has been terrible so far. I'm enjoying this a lot right now, even though we're only a few minutes into the match. Benoit is controlling the match so far and its making for a great match. IDK if its just me but I find that haitch and Benoit have great chemistry, the match is moving fluently and i'm not getting bored at all. I know I'll be in the minority here but I'm prefering this match to the IC title match. Benoit's selling in this match is :mark:, I wont say hes carrying this match but hes still doing better than hunter, but hes still showing off a good performance. wasn't a fan of the whole Eugene thing but even though the ref was down Benoit still making Hunter tap was :mark:. The near fall after Benoit got hit by the pedigree was AWESOME. But still, why is Eugene turning on HHH was :mark:, mainly because of the crowd but still, fun I guess. despite the final 5 minutes being kind of stupid and anticlimatic I still thought this match was great and MOTN for sure. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 8.5 

CURRENT 2004 PPV RANKINGS
1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: Wrestlemania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood(12)
5: Judgment day( 9.5) 
6: Vengeance(8.5)
7: Royal Rumble (8)
8: The Bash (7)
*​



Might start SS 04 later, thoughts on that show outside the ME?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My Best of PPV 2013 arrived. I can chip away at it and hopefully come up with a conclusive list for myself. I can also finally watch Zigs/Rio from Payback and tell SKINS how much it sucks 8*D. Looking forward to reliving some stuff though, namely both Summerslam matches, the ER Cage and Mania 29 along with DAT SHIELD EPICNESS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:banderas finally


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yeah mate, ill get that sorted tomorrow. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT - Do you mean Fall Brawl?



Yep Fall Brawl sorry I always get those two events mixed up.

Edit-Skins you pretty much echoed my exact thoughts about Hunter/Michaels Summerslam 2002. The first half is like the build up to a potential 5 star match, then during the second half it all went of the rails and it's like the first half never even happened. Oh well, I think I gave it ***3/4 on last watch. Not even close to being their worst match though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SKINS said:


> :banderas finally


If this fucking thing isn't MOTY after all this hype then unk2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Almost jealous of you Starbuck, I wish I could watch Ziggler/Del Rio for the first time again and just be slapped in the face by complete and under brilliance. There's nothing like your first time.

:lenny


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What? Starbucky gonna watch that PB match? About fecking time ya lazy brick.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well I didn't say I'm watching it right now, I just said the bluray arrived. :lol Now that I have it I just might wait the rest of the year to finally put it on.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol I think Ive seen that match 6x in the past 8 months

Starbuck if you dont like this match I'll leave the thread



Edit: Wait she hates Ziggler and ADR


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well now I kinda want Starbuck to dislike it :side:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watched it. Hated it. Fuck off Skins.

:buried


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Spoiler: Vengeance 2004 review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HHH/Benoit > Orton/Edge all day long.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Your joking


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

You guys like the WWE Night Of Champions 2011 - Triple H vs. CM Punk No Disqualification Match ???


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. Shitty match. But that's what happens when you throw Punk in the ring with a pretty crappy guy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH/Benoit > Orton/Edge all day long.


(Y)

LOVED the first 3/4 of the match, ending almost ruined it, but not enough


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> You guys like the WWE Night Of Champions 2011 - Triple H vs. CM Punk No Disqualification Match ???


Trips/Punk was okay. Any hope they had of it being good went out the window with heavily overbooking at the end. That was just too much.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Your joking


GTFO. If you post in here again I will ban you.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> You guys like the WWE Night Of Champions 2011 - Triple H vs. CM Punk No Disqualification Match ???


Yeah. Good brawl up until the clusterfuck finish.



SMITTY said:


> (Y)
> 
> LOVED the first 3/4 of the match, ending almost ruined it, but not enough


Same. They were on their way to having a legit GREAT match before Eugene came out. Good, focused control work from HHH, great selling from Benoit.

As for Orton/Edge, I seem to be one of the few people who don't think it's very good. Like at all. I recall it dragging hard at times and I wasn't impressed by either guy's performance. They have at least two matches on Raw that are much better than Vengeance.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think Punk/Trips would have been better if there weren't 65 run-ins and 47 finishers.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Trips/Punk was okay. Any hope they had of it being good went out the window with heavily overbooking at the end. That was just too much.


I was kinda looking forward to a good brawl at wrestlemania 30. oh well just too bad. punk is punishing the fans and his pocket by leaving...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk NOT facing HHH at WM 30 is :mark: tbh. HHH Vs Anyone sounds awful on paper.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah. Good brawl up until the clusterfuck finish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Randy Orton and Edge had a crazy good match on raw in 2007. around april if i remember. the fatal 4 way at backlash was good too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Need to watch Trips/Punk again. I need to watch just about everything again to be fair though, like Zigs/Rio at Payback since I never watched it to begin with and Skins buried himself 8*D.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Punk NOT facing HHH at WM 30 is :mark: tbh. HHH Vs Anyone sounds awful on paper.


I will be very disappointment if he ends up facing daniel bryan. :frustrate


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Me too, just because Bryan deserves a good opponent or at least a title match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Punk NOT facing HHH at WM 30 is :mark: tbh. HHH Vs Anyone sounds awful on paper.


HHH/Bryan MOTN. Just wait.

Maybe not, Lesnar/Taker will be tough to beat. I can't see HHH/Bryan being less than great though. Has the potential to be an even better version of HHH/Hardy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have a feeling CALLY is trying to bait me with all this HHHate. I ain't biting, ginger. 

:HHH2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd prefer Bryan face HHH than slum around in the midcard with Sheamus

Even though vs Sheamus would be a better match its already been done at mania twice(kinda) and Bryan going over the COO of the company would be :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I have a feeling CALLY is trying to bait me with all this HHHate. I ain't biting, ginger.
> 
> :HHH2


Jebus, not everything is about YOU ya know. The ego on some people...

I post HHH hate all the time, for no other reason than he has been mostly shit for the last decade .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Jebus, not everything is about YOU ya know. The ego on some people...
> 
> I post HHH hate all the time, for no other reason than he has been mostly shit for the last decade .


ITS ALL ABOUT THE GAME


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Interesting. Meltzer shat all over Show/Orton, so it's not like he has any kind of bias. I really disliked the way people treated C2D like a blind mark, just 'cause he liked Cena/Orton. This just shows you that everyone has vastly different opinions, and no one is really "in the right."


Well put. I have yet to see a valid explanation as to why the match was horrible so I don't really give a damn how much others wanna bang it into my head that it sucked. They exchanged finishers in the end? So did Punk/Cena from NOC and that gets praised to high heaven. (plus it also has a shitty anticlimactic non-finish)

Glad Lord Meltzer is giving it a good rating, though. Some people blindly follow his opinions so I'll have some company now. 

Also interesting to read about Orton's depush and his comments about getting time off. Maybe that's why he violated the wellness policy? 



SMITTY said:


> Everyone be sure to apologize to C2D for bullying him


APOLOGY NOT ACCEPTED. FUCK YOU! 



King Cal said:


> Punk NOT facing HHH at WM 30 is :mark: tbh. HHH Vs Anyone sounds awful on paper.


Punk NOT being on the card at all is :mark:. 8*D


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> No one was "bullying" anyone. I'd like to think all the regulars in this thread are reasonable enough to share differing opinions on matches and wrestlers *without anyone getting their panties in a twist.* It just so happened that the majority of people in this thread thought Cena/Orton RR 2014 was garbage, but C2D felt otherwise and stuck up for his opinion, and more power to him. That's why this is really the only place I will post on this entire forum, I don't consider anyone a "blind mark", 9 times out of 10 if someone has a vastly different opinion than others on here, they atleast have a good reason and are able to convey it in a rational way.


I wasn't the one who used the word bullying, but if you go back and read, it's pretty obvious that people couldn't just accept that his opinion was different than theirs. You're responding because you know it's true.

And yeah, I'd like to think the same, but that obviously wasn't the case.

It's over and done with, but it was obnoxious.





King Cal said:


> Why does Vince dislike Rey these days? Because he's always injured?


Probably. He seems to not have a lot of tolerance for that. Plus, from what writers have said, although Vince personally loved watching Rey and thought he was a genius, he never could fully accept him as a main event type of guy, due to his size.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

haribo said:


> ADid you try typing a colon then woolcock? :draper2


shut the fuck up. :side:



Saint Dick said:


> I can't see HHH/Bryan being less than great though.


IDK, this is HHH. He can have a habit of pulling on the reigns too much during a match and the match suffering as a result. He had less-than-good matches with the New and Improved Brock Lesnar. 'Great' is a really, really, really high brass ring for Helsmley to reach for. I don't even know what I'd personally say is his last great match. No way it's happened after 2008, I know that much.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK, this is HHH. He can have a habit of pulling on the reigns too much during a match and the match suffering as a result. He had less-than-good matches with the New and Improved Brock Lesnar. 'Great' is a really, really, really high brass ring for Helsmley to reach for. I don't even know what I'd personally say is his last great match. No way it's happened after 2008, I know that much.


It's also Daniel Bryan we're talking about. I have faith in Hunter to work well as a heel (face HHH is way more hit and miss) against Bryan who will go the extra mile to bump and sell for him. I'd call the Taker matches great but I can see why they're not for everyone. Also thought the cage match with Lesnar was great. Possibly top 10 for 2013.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

I don't know whether this has been posted before or not, but for anyone who is interested, Dave Meltzer's 3(+) Star Match list got updated to include matches upto 2013.

http://starratingslist.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/wwe-observer-star-ratings-1986-present.html


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't even know what I'd personally say is his last great match. No way it's happened after 2008, I know that much.


Vs Undertaker x2 and Vs Lesnar x1 (SS) ya muppet :side:.

Been stuck on my Insurrextion 2003 review for a week now. Made it through 1 match :lmao. 2nd match is Booker T (which put me off right away) Vs Christian (who wasn't doing much for me until 2004).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> It's also Daniel Bryan we're talking about. I have faith in Hunter to work well as a heel (face HHH is way more hit and miss) against Bryan who will go the extra mile to bump and sell for him. I'd call the Taker matches great but I can see why they're not for everyone. Also thought the cage match with Lesnar was great. Possibly top 10 for 2013.


Agreed 100% with all of this. Him as a heel against Bryan will be great imo. Bryan will do all the bumping to make Hunter's offense look strong and Hunter will be able to infuse a bit of drama to the match. I think of it as a potential upgrade from the Wyatt match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> shut the fuck up. :side:
> 
> 
> 
> IDK, this is HHH. He can have a habit of pulling on the reigns too much during a match and the match suffering as a result. He had less-than-good matches with the New and Improved Brock Lesnar. 'Great' is a really, really, really high brass ring for Helsmley to reach for. I don't even know what I'd personally say is his last great match. No way it's happened after 2008, I know that much.




Funny you said 2008, because I happen to think Trips last "great" match was vs Jeff Hardy at No Mercy. Everything since then has been either ok, mediocre, below average, god awful, or holy fuck what the hell did I just waste 20 minutes watching. 


LilOlMe-I'm responding to you because I happen to NOT believe what you are saying is true. The nature of a good debate is someone not accepting another's opinion as truth and then providing a basis of fact mixed with their own personal feelings as to why they believe otherwise. That is PRECISELY what most people were doing when the debate about that match occurred. No one resorted to name calling, no one that I saw dismissed C2D as being stupid or that his opinion was invalid. It was just a spirited discussion. If you go back and look at my posts, I clearly stated why I felt Orton/Cena was garbage. But here goes again: that match was just nonsense. The first 10 minutes or so felt like Orton and Cena just cycling through their signature moves, then the last 5 minutes were them trading finishers and kicking out of a bunch of stuff. I obviously don't know for sure, but I would bet a significant amount of money that Cena called an audible in the ring and that's why they traded finishers for so long in the end. That match was getting shit on so badly by the crowd, the only way to get them to focus on the work in the ring was by doing some false finishes. Even the most vehemently angry crowd cannot resist the power of chanting "1-2- OHHHHHH" when they think the finish is about to happen. My biggest gripe wasn't even the finish fest though, it was the complete lack of feeling, meaning, or substance to it. I never once felt like Cena was in jeopardy, I never felt like Orton had any coherent plan behind his moves, I never felt like either guy was emotionally invested in the outcome. If neither wrestler gives a shit about what they are fighting for, then why in the world should I? I truly feel like that match epitomizes "sports entertainment". It wasn't a real wrestling match, it was just two guys out there trying to entertain us and there was no pretense that anything significant was at stake. That is my single biggest frustration with WWE's current product. They are all about being entertainers, when they should be all about WRESTLING. Jim Cornette once said this and I believe it's 100% true, pro wrestling is at it's best when it reaches that sweet spot of being an entertaining sport rather than pure sports entertainment. I want to suspend my disbelief and believe that the two guys in the ring are fighting for a real championship. Cena and Orton's performance was the farthest thing from that in my eyes.

LilOlMe, it's called opinion man, people are allowed to have one. I think your issue is you like that match and feel that when we were crapping on the match, we were crapping on you. Not the case at all.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed 100% with all of this. Him as a heel against Bryan will be great imo. Bryan will do all the bumping to make Hunter's offense look strong and Hunter will be able to infuse a bit of drama to the match. I think of it as a potential upgrade from the Wyatt match.


And the finishing stretch will be FIRE. If it ends up being better than Bryan/Wyatt then :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi


HHH/taker wm 27, and mania w/ sheamus and hhh/brock CAGE


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

YEAH, are you gonna' watch Wrath and Mortis or what :side:

+ for anyone interested, I uploaded Regal/Dragon Slamboree 97 and Bam Bam/Taz LD98 to my DM account.

Edit: HI SKINS


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Vs Undertaker x2 and Vs Lesnar x1 (SS) ya muppet :side:.


NOPE



Cactus Jack said:


> Funny you said 2008, because I happen to think Trips last "great" match was vs Jeff Hardy at No Mercy. Everything since then has been either ok, mediocre, below average, god awful, or holy fuck what the hell did I just waste 20 minutes watching.


Hardy at NM is the match I had in mind, though I have no idea if I'd still call it 'great' since I haven't seen it in years and my definition of 'great' has changed since then.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed 100% with all of this. Him as a heel against Bryan will be great imo. Bryan will do all the bumping to make Hunter's offense look strong and Hunter will be able to infuse a bit of drama to the match. I think of it as a potential upgrade from the Wyatt match.




You both seem to be forgetting that if Bryan faces Hunter, theres an 85% chance that Hunter will win. Is that what you want? I can't see Hunter putting Bryan over, I think he will use it as another opportunity to get what he thinks is "heel heat" but is really fans being disgusted with his selfishness.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FLUX said:


> YEAH, are you gonna' watch Wrath and Mortis or what :side:


EVENTUALLY~ 

Watched a few Christian matches but I was busy yesterday after that. Should finish those and post them later.


EDIT - as much as Bryan v. HHH doesn't interest me, it'll be a great thing for Bryan. If he wins. Clean. Which sounds kind of unrealistic and also one of the reasons I think it isn't a very good idea.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Since 2008, HHH had had a couple of great Mania matches with Taker. However, his WM25 and all matches following with Orton were mediocre at best. His WM26 match with Sheamus was pretty good, but certainly not great. His matches with Taker were great (although not as great as some make them out to be), and the Lesnar matches were a mixed bag of good, awful, and decent, nothing great.

That being said, I think Bryan could give HHH his first ****+ match since 2005.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@Yeah1993* watch and write about the cage match v Lesnar. I'm not sure if you'll like it but I want to know what you think. Do it tonight.



Cactus Jack said:


> You both seem to be forgetting that if Bryan faces Hunter, theres an 85% chance that Hunter will win. Is that what you want? I can't see Hunter putting Bryan over, I think he will use it as another opportunity to get what he thinks is "heel heat" but is really fans being disgusted with his selfishness.


85%? Nah, no way. In my mind it's like 70-30 in Bryan's favor.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Majority in here don't think the End Of An Era match is great? I can understand the issues with the War of Wars showdown at WrestleMania 27 as they did work a slower pace, some would say stalling pace. But I thought the storytelling and DRAMA really put the Hell In A Cell match in Miami over the top. One of those "epic" encounters Hunter ever so blatantly likes to attempt to create. Anyway, I am in agreement with having doubts about Hunter having a "great match" with Bryan even if it is Bryan in there (thinking about the Orton series again). I also still have my doubts Batista will put on a quality affair with Orton too if that match is still on.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Glad Lord Meltzer is giving it a good rating, though. Some people blindly follow his opinions so I'll have some company now.


Bah. FWIW, Keller called the match "good" too:


> Whether it’s the college basketball
> fans chanting “Yes! Yes! Yes!” or the Bryan fans at
> the Rumble basically ruining a hard-fought good WWE
> World Title match between two pros putting on a good-
> ...





> Also interesting to read about Orton's depush and his comments about getting time off. Maybe that's why he violated the wellness policy?


A lot of people joked about this at the time, apparently, lol. I don't know why he can't just find a crooked doctor through one of the other wrestlers (you know they're almost all on steroids...or at least I personally really believe that). Apparently it's ok to fail a drug test if you have a valid subscription. The whole thing is just weird to me, that he keeps getting caught, when I truly believe that almost all of them are doing it. Don't know why he doesn't seem to have the right connects. I assume it's because he's a loner by all accounts, so he probably doesn't feel comfortable saying "hey, who do you use...?" Too bad he can't just get 'em delivered to Vince's office, like in the 90s. 8*D



> Well put. I have yet to see a valid explanation as to why the match was horrible so I don't really give a damn how much others wanna bang it into my head that it sucked. They exchanged finishers in the end? So did Punk/Cena from NOC and that gets praised to high heaven. (plus it also has a shitty anticlimactic non-finish)


I don't love the match, but I do think the "random spam" accusations are untrue. I do understand it, though, because the crowd was so distracting, and Orton took forever playing to the crowd, that the story got lost in all of that. They DID build it up. From what I remember, Cena tried to AA him twice & tried to STF twice, while Orton tried the RKO plus cheap tricks like hitting him with the belt (which I hate, and soured me on the match. I hate stupid ref bumps, especially shit like that), but neither could get each other. Finally, Orton, who had been a smart ass throughout the match, tries both of Cena's own moves on him. 

And I have to say, seeing Orton do the STF was cool, because that was crisp and smooth as hell. *Take notes, Cena* Cena hitting the RKO was fun too. That looked nice.

Like I said, though, I do understand why people feel that way, because the flow ended up being off as hell. 


_ETA:_ I also think that Orton's style of match just will never appeal to some people. And this isn't a good example, because I didn't really like the match, but I think that that applies in general. He has a slow burning style (or "boring as fuck" style, his detractors would say) and that's always going to limit his appeal to people who don't like that sort of thing. I wasn't so high on NOC vs. Bryan, for example, but I took another look when I saw that Wade & Meltzer both had it in the *** 3/4 range. I liked it more on second watch, and actually thought it had more storytelling and build and crescendo than a lot of main event style matches have, but it's understated. 






WWE2014 said:


> I don't know whether this has been posted before or not, but for anyone who is interested, Dave Meltzer's 3(+) Star Match list got updated to include matches upto 2013.
> 
> http://starratingslist.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/wwe-observer-star-ratings-1986-present.html


Doesn't have the Bryan/Orton Dec RAW match there, which Meltzer gave ****, or the 1-2-3 Kid/Bret Hart RAW match, which he gave **** 1/2 to, just off the top of my head. So it doesn't have everything, but that is a good reference point. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> *@Yeah1993* watch and write about the cage match v Lesnar. I'm not sure if you'll like it but I want to know what you think. Do it tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 85%? Nah, no way. In my mind it's like 70-30 in Bryan's favor.



I'd love for you to be right. But Night of Champions 2011 still haunts me. Bryan at this point is probably even more over than Punk was in 2011, so there's always a chance.

I just wish Hunter could work more like Taker in that, guys can lose to Taker and look better than if they beat a lot of other guys. Hunter has this bad habit of beating people so that they look like shit. Or worse, having an awful match that leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouth


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I will be SHOCKED if Orton/Batista is good. (if it happens)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I have my doubts about HHH/Bryan, I have my doubts about Cena/Wyatt and I have no hopes for Batista/Orton. :hb

Yay for Wrestlemania


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> ITS ALL ABOUT THE EGO


Yep


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'd love for you to be right. But Night of Champions 2011 still haunts me. Bryan at this point is probably even more over than Punk was in 2011, so there's always a chance.
> 
> I just wish Hunter could work more like Taker in that, guys can lose to Taker and look better than if they beat a lot of other guys. Hunter has this bad habit of beating people so that they look like shit. Or worse, having an awful match that leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouth


You think Punk looked like shit after NoC?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Clique said:


> Majority in here don't think the End Of An Era match is great? I can understand the issues with the War of Wars showdown at WrestleMania 27 as they did work a slower pace, some would say stalling pace. But I thought the storytelling and DRAMA really put the Hell In A Cell match in Miami over the top. One of those "epic" encounters Hunter ever so blatantly likes to attempt to create. Anyway, I am in agreement with having doubts about Hunter having a "great match" with Bryan even if it is Bryan in there (thinking about the Orton series again). I also still have my doubts Batista will put on a quality affair with Orton too if that match is still on.


Not a fan of WM 27 but love WM 28 

But most are the other way around or hate/love both


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I love this thread


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> *@Yeah1993* watch and write about the cage match v Lesnar. I'm not sure if you'll like it but I want to know what you think. Do it tonight.


Watched it live. Lesnar's selling was good objectively but he looked like the biggest weakass bitch crawling around and saying "that's my manager" like a peewee baseball team member. I couldn't get into Lesnar's selling because he didn't look like Brock Lesnar during any of it, while HHH was playing Brock himself (a shittier version, at least). Lesnar was sub-sub-sub-sub-Cena from Extreme Rules 2012. Match was ass-backwards and I didn't like it. Not sure I wanna watch it again.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Clique said:


> Majority in here don't think the End Of An Era match is great? I can understand the issues with the War of Wars showdown at WrestleMania 27 as they did work a slower pace, some would say stalling pace. But I thought the storytelling and DRAMA really put the Hell In A Cell match in Miami over the top. One of those "epic" encounters Hunter ever so blatantly likes to attempt to create. Anyway, I am in agreement with having doubts about Hunter having a "great match" with Bryan even if it is Bryan in there (thinking about the Orton series again). I also still have my doubts Batista will put on a quality affair with Orton too if that match is still on.


End of an Era is my second favorite Hunter match ever. Superkick/Pedigree combo gets me every time.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Clique said:


> Majority in here don't think the End Of An Era match is great? I can understand the issues with the War of Wars showdown at WrestleMania 27 as they did work a slower pace, some would say stalling pace. But I thought the storytelling and DRAMA really put the Hell In A Cell match in Miami over the top. One of those "epic" encounters Hunter ever so blatantly likes to attempt to create. Anyway, I am in agreement with having doubts about Hunter having a "great match" with Bryan even if it is Bryan in there (thinking about the Orton series again). I also still have my doubts Batista will put on a quality affair with Orton too if that match is still on.


I love the End Of An Era match. I give it **** 1/2. everything felt good about that match. the crowd. the wrestlers. JR on commentary :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched it live. Lesnar's selling was good objectively but he looked like the biggest weakass bitch crawling around and saying "that's my manager" like a peewee baseball team member. I couldn't get into Lesnar's selling because he didn't look like Brock Lesnar during any of it, while HHH was playing Brock himself (a shittier version, at least). Lesnar was sub-sub-sub-sub-Cena from Extreme Rules 2012. Match was ass-backwards and I didn't like it. Not sure I wanna watch it again.


To each his own. The change in dynamic worked for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think Bryan loses to HHH @ Mania. Despite the questionable booking and HHH's "ego," I think the recent backlash at Royal Rumble has really pushed WWE into another gear as far as creative is concerned. They thought the RR backlash was bad - just imagine Bryan losing to HHH @ Mania.

Plus, it's not like HHH has ever had an issue putting people over @ Mania (Benoit, Batista, Cena, Taker, Warrior :side.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> To each his own. The change in dynamic worked for me.


Anyone else _maybe_, but Brock Lesnar - nah IMO. Never should have been like that, hated it live, havn't watched it since.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Clique said:


> Majority in here don't think the End Of An Era match is great? I can understand the issues with the War of Wars showdown at WrestleMania 27 as they did work a slower pace, some would say stalling pace. But I thought the storytelling and DRAMA really put the Hell In A Cell match in Miami over the top. One of those "epic" encounters Hunter ever so blatantly likes to attempt to create. Anyway, I am in agreement with having doubts about Hunter having a "great match" with Bryan even if it is Bryan in there (thinking about the Orton series again). I also still have my doubts Batista will put on a quality affair with Orton too if that match is still on.


The "End of an Era" match was great and like you said the storytelling and drama made it a whole lot more special. Undertaker trying to avenge not walking on his own two feet the previous Wrestlemania and Hunter trying everything he could to end the Phenom's incredible streak, even with an inadvertant assist from Shawn, but to no avail. I also loved them walking up the ramp together after the match ended. It was truly a special moment. Haven't watched their WM 27 match since it first aired, but I thought it was epic lol

If the Bryan/HHH match were to happen, I think it would be really good. Daniel Bryan's in it for fuck sake


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think Bryan loses to HHH @ Mania. Despite the questionable booking and HHH's "ego," I think the recent backlash at Royal Rumble has really pushed WWE into another gear as far as creative is concerned. They thought the RR backlash was bad - just imagine Bryan losing to HHH @ Mania.
> 
> Plus, it's not like HHH has ever had an issue putting people over @ Mania (Benoit, Batista, Cena, Taker, Warrior :side.


True. People think just because Punk is a douchebag, Bryan is gonna pay for it as well.



> I don't love the match, but I do think the "random spam" accusations are untrue. I do it understand it, though, because the crowd was so distracting, and Orton took forever playing to the crowd, that the story got lost in all of that. They DID build it up. From what I remember, Cena tried to AA him twice & tried to STF twice, while Orton tried the RKO plus cheap tricks like hitting him with the belt (which I hate, and soured me on the match. I hate stupid ref bumps, especially shit like that like), but neither could get each other. Finally, Orton, who had been a smart ass throughout the match, tries both of Cena's own moves on him.
> 
> And I have to say, seeing Orton do the STF was cool, because that was crisp and smooth as hell. *Take notes, Cena* Cena hitting the RKO was fun too. That looked nice.


I thought it was good, I didn't _love_ it. But I was very into it which I guess is fueled by my investment in Orton's work more than anything. The crowd actually helped because it could've been worse - a completely silent crowd.

And yeah, it was funny seeing Orton do Cena's move better than him. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And yeah, it was funny seeing Orton do Cena's move better than him. :lol


Cena's 'attempts' at the STF were even more laughable than usual in that match, esp when Orton did it properly it seemed. 

Why can't Cena realize this?


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Anyone wanna rate Wrestlemania 24?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Cena's 'attempts' at the STF were even more laughable than usual in that match, esp when Orton did it properly it seemed.
> 
> Why can't Cena realize this?


The fact that Cena hasn't properly applied the STF in over 5 years just baffles me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Cena's 'attempts' at the STF were even more laughable than usual in that match, esp when Orton did it properly it seemed.
> 
> Why can't Cena realize this?


I just don't get why his hands are so far away from the throat area, it looks so fake.

On the other hand, when I saw his Crossface, I realized why no one will ever make it look as good as Benoit did. And no, I wont take the easy route and say it's because he's the best. :cool2 It's because of his short arms, making it easier to lock his hands around the face in perfect position.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Anyone wanna rate Wrestlemania 24?


JBL/Finlay - ***1/2
Money in the Bank IV - ****1/4
Batista/Umaga - **3/4
Kane/Chavo - DUD
HBK/Flair - *****
Beth and Melina/Maria and Ashley - *
Orton/Cena/HHH - ***1/2
Mayweather/Big Show - ***3/4
Undertaker/Edge - ****1/2

Overall : 9/10

One of the best Wrestlemanias if I do say so myself.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Anyone wanna rate Wrestlemania 24?


Wrote this a couple of months ago


Spoiler: review



*Wrestlemania 24 review*
*
Match #1: JBL vs Finlay- Belfast brawl *

:mark:, two of the best brawlers in WWE history, and IDGAF that it had that TERRIBLE storyline. I guess the storyline was that hornswoggle was not the son of Finlay,( which is what I and everyone else thought) but the son of Vince McMahon. So JBL decides to be the douchebag and beat the midget up, so I’m kind of rooting for JBL just because Hornswoggle deserved that. Now, my question is, why does everyone care about Hornswoggle so much? The guy legit does NOTHING with this company, besides tarnishing the cruiserweight title by being the last person to hold it. He needed to be released at this point and still does. Well at least here he actually looked like a leprechaun, now he looks like some midget guido from long island who thinks its still cool to put grease in your hair and slick it back. He does all this by hanging around a 7 foot Indian guy who cannot speak English, WHAT THE FUCK WWE..
Anyways, Onto the match! This is called a Belfast brawl and it certainly lived up to its name, because this was a fucking war. The entire match was centered around the two just beating the fucking pulp out of each other. They used everything from cookie sheets to trash cans to chairs, and the shots they took were STIFF as fuck, these two sure can brawl. Luckily Hornswoggle didn’t get TOO involved with this match as he was kind’ve just used for JBL to throw things at during the match :lol. Check this out guys, its loads of fun. ***1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 3 *

LOLWTF is Kim Kardashian doing here :lmao 

*Match #2: John Morrison vs Carlito vs Chris Jericho vs MVP vs CM Punk vs Mr. Kennedy vs Shelton Benjamin *

God I love MITB matches, and this one is a personal favorite of mine, mainly because of all da SPOTZ and the fact that it really put Punk in the ME scene for the first time. What a match this is. All these guys except Carlito and Kennedy can work like bitches. Best spot of the match is EASILY when Shelton falls off the top of the ladder that is sitting at ringside. Carlito and Kennedy looked so scared, like they just stabbed someone, bitches we’re scared as crap that they broke his back or something. Anyways this whole thing is just awesome, probably a top 5 MITB match for me, nothing will beat the original, but this might be a close second TBH. Another awesome point is when MVP is just about to win and Matt Hardy, the guy MVP injured 5 months earlier( Kayfabe, returns and costs him the match. So Punk wins and it propels him to the ME scene, except his first title run was overshadowed a ton by the HBK/Jericho feud TBH. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4

Match # 3: Batista vs Umaga *

Well this sucked, I was expecting these two to go all at it with both of them being monsters in the ring, but it was the complete opposite and I was honestly bored the entire time I was watching it. Both guys did not seem to give a shit and were probably butthurt because they were both in semi main events last year at mania. So skip this, it REALLY killed the heat this show had. * 

*CAL SCALE:0

Match #4: Kane vs Chavo Gurrero 
*
LOLWTF, this ended in 10 seconds :lmao DUD 

*CAL SCALE: 0

Match #5: Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels 
*
I’m crying already, and the video package is still playing . This is a top 20 match in WWE history IMO, as it is storytelling and emotion at its absolute finest. Its Ric Flair, the uncontested best wrestler in pro wrestling history, and the man that is tied with #3 of my all time list( with taker). The only ones better than him is the man he is wrestling here and Bret Hart. A great video package that somehow goe ts through Ric Flair’s amazing career n only 3 minutes. This really should have been the main event but Its not too big of a deal, at least the triple threat didn’t, Edge/taker was a fine choice IMO. REALLY pumped for this match TBH, THIS IS WRESTLING . Flair’s music and his entrance as a whole is so emotional, JR is great here too. 
The beginning to this is slow, but you can already see the immense story telling unfold. I love the part where Ric Flair yells “old yeller huh?” and then Shawn slaps him, we’re 4 minutes in and I’m already completely invested into the match. That spot where HBK goes through the announce table is so :mark:, I love this match so much! 
Anyways, what a match, what story telling. The wrestling is good, not GREAT but it’s the story telling and the emotion that puts this over the edge. I just love the whole story where Flair is on his last legs and is telling HBK to end it, but Shawn just doesn’t want to, priceless. Watch this now, anywhere you are, watch it, watch the GOAT end his career end in style( forget TNA ). ****1/2

*CAL SCALE: 9 *

*Match #6: Playboy Bunny match *

If I want to see hot chicks I have the internet, THIS AINT WRASSLIN! NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match#7: John Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH*

Good thing this wasn’t the ME, because this just doesn’t feel too special, especially after the wrestling clinic we saw in my 2008 MOTY. Okay, I honestly DIED when I realized that Cena got a jobbers entrance, that’s rich :lmao. Anyways this match was okay, nothing special but it was fun. Surprised they went with a triple threat as the whole feud should have been about Orton and cena, but Haitch gotta get in dat title match! This felt like a good match if it was on a c-PPV, but it just didn’t feel like a WWE title match at wrestlemania. I did like how Orton went over, and the ending was well executed. ***1/4

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match # 8: The Big Show vs Floyd Mayweather 
*
This sure seems similar to Tyson and Austin, cept all Tyson did was be a special referee. I’m actually expecting this to be a lot of fun, because I do like Boxing and UFC a little. Yeah this was OK, it was almost pretty bad TBH. I was kind of bored for the most part. Not much to say about this because it was pretty boring and didn’t really live up to the hype. It was better than 90% of celebrity matches though, if that means anything. **1/4

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #9: Edge vs the Undertaker *

I think I’ll just copy this review and put it on the next taker project post as I don’t need to write about the same exact match two days in a row. I remember loving this match the last time I watched it, and its always good to see the deadman Main event the show he is undefeated at! Another GREAT entrance by taker, and its up there with WM 14 as his best, love the guys with the torches and all the fire. This is a very fun match, but the beginning does seem to turn off a lot of people. The beginning is slow, yet it does a better job of telling the storyline than the end of the match. The final 10-15 minutes of this is :mark:, I love it. The ending with Edge tapping out is awesome too. Love this match and a very underrated streak match IMO. Check this out guys! ****1/4 

*CAL SCALE: 6 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 22*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> You think Punk looked like shit after NoC?



No, I said "or worse, he could have a really shitty match which leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth". That was pretty much how I felt after NoC 2011. It's not like Trips "buried" Punk or Punk came out looking weak, it was just a below average match that seems even worse because expectations were high. The insane amount of run ins and the fact that Trips won when he had no business to just made the whole thing seem very sour, atleast to me.



Choke2Death said:


> I just don't get why his hands are so far away from the throat area, it looks so fake.
> 
> On the other hand, when I saw his Crossface, I realized why no one will ever make it look as good as Benoit did. And no, I wont take the easy route and say it's because he's the best. :cool2 It's because of his short arms, making it easier to lock his hands around the face in perfect position.


I think you are right but the other thing that makes Benoit's crossface better than everyones was just how fucking INTENSE he looked when doing it. I know saying Benoit is intense is like saying the sky is blue, fucking obvious really, but just the way he'd have all the veins popping out of his neck with his mouth open and he just looked like he was trying his damndest to rip the guys head off. Benoit just made it look REAL, which is the opposite of what Cena does with his STF. 

I know he gets a lot of hate in here but I don't give a shit, I loved the same thing about Kurt Angle's Ankle Lock. Seeing him torqueing and ripping a guys ankle while screaming "TAP! TAP! TAP YOU SON OF A BITH!" or in one match when he kept countering someone (was it NWO vs Taker? can't remember) and he'd just start shaking his head and said "NOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOO!". I dunno, I thought the whole Ankle lock deal was just tremendous with Kurt, it's shame he got in the habit of spamming the fuck out of that move, if he had been more careful about it and kept it's impact high, that would be a strong contender for one of my favorite submissions ever.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I edited some things into my post about Orton's style, C2D. This thread is moving fast as hell!



Choke2Death said:


> And yeah, it was funny seeing Orton do Cena's move better than him. :lol





Clint Eastwood said:


> Cena's 'attempts' at the STF were even more laughable than usual in that match, esp when Orton did it properly it seemed.
> 
> Why can't Cena realize this?


The biggest thing I want Cena to do better are his punches. Everyone talks about Punk's elbow, or now Cena's STF (the worst case of this was during his first match with The Rock. I remember it not even remotely looking like he was around Rock's jaw/neck, etc. The gap was huge. It was awful. And the way he sits usually looks weird too.)

Those don't even bother me so much usually, but Cena's punches almost NEVER give the illusion that they're even connecting. Talk about big gaps in spaces! It's like the biggest "WRESTLING IS FAKE" neon sign, and it's the most basic, simple, move. I don't understand why any of the road agents can't just take him aside and just work on this and correct this.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Mayweather/Show is legit one of the greatest things I've ever seen, and I hate Mayweather. Love that match so so so so so so much. I highly doubt there will ever be a celebrity match better than that, at least not for a loooooooooong time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Mania 24 was pretty great. Mayweather/Show :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think Bryan loses to HHH @ Mania. Despite the questionable booking and HHH's "ego," I think the recent backlash at Royal Rumble has really pushed WWE into another gear as far as creative is concerned. They thought the RR backlash was bad - just imagine Bryan losing to HHH @ Mania.
> 
> Plus, it's not like HHH has ever had an issue putting people over @ Mania (Benoit, Batista, Cena, Taker, Warrior :side.


Spot on. Plus, rumor has it they chose Seattle as the location for Extreme Rules because of Bryan. I think the plan is for him to win the title in his hometown after he beats Trips at Mania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I need to rewatch mayweather/show because disliked it the only time I've watched it


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

plus added in Keller's quote.




The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think Bryan loses to HHH @ Mania. Despite the questionable booking and HHH's "ego," I think the recent backlash at Royal Rumble has really pushed WWE into another gear as far as creative is concerned. They thought the RR backlash was bad - just imagine Bryan losing to HHH @ Mania.
> 
> Plus, it's not like HHH has ever had an issue putting people over @ Mania (Benoit, Batista, Cena, Taker, Warrior :side.


Yeah, it's surprising to me that people seriously think that H would put himself over Bryan. I know it's H, but I don't think there's any shot in hell of that happening. He's not mentally insane. I seriously think that that would be the ultimate breaking point for many fans, and even H knows that. No doubt in my mind that he'll do the job.

I agree with the poster above about what will probably happen.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I think you are right but the other thing that makes Benoit's crossface better than everyones was just how fucking INTENSE he looked when doing it. I know saying Benoit is intense is like saying the sky is blue, fucking obvious really, but just the way he'd have all the veins popping out of his neck with his mouth open and he just looked like he was trying his damndest to rip the guys head off. Benoit just made it look REAL, which is the opposite of what Cena does with his STF.


Yep, there's that too but his shorter arms make it look so much easier because he doesn't have to pull back as much. HHH did a very good version of the move at WM24 but as said, no one will beat the master of the move. Benoit's facials when locking that move always has me marking out. He just made the move look like the most devastating thing on the planet. 



> I know he gets a lot of hate in here but I don't give a shit, I loved the same thing about Kurt Angle's Ankle Lock. Seeing him torqueing and ripping a guys ankle while screaming "TAP! TAP! TAP YOU SON OF A BITH!" or in one match when he kept countering someone (was it NWO vs Taker? can't remember) and he'd just start shaking his head and said "NOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOO!". I dunno, I thought the whole Ankle lock deal was just tremendous with Kurt, it's shame he got in the habit of spamming the fuck out of that move, if he had been more careful about it and kept it's impact high, that would be a strong contender for one of my favorite submissions ever.


Agree. One of my favorites is the NWO match with Rock where he says "Tap out or I'll break your fucking ankle!". :lol

If only he didn't start spamming it so much, it would've been much better. He was best when doing it with hair because he was such a goofball. Love the WOO! during the Austin match from SummerSlam when he locks it on by the barricade.



LilOlMe said:


> I edited some things into my post about Orton's style, C2D. This thread is moving fast as hell!


Yeah, you have a point there. Even I find it hard to appreciate his style at times. What saved his "slow" performance at RR was the constant playing to the crowd. Just loved how he kept posing or taunting them in response to the random chants. He's come a long way in that department compared to last year in that Sheamus match where he looked clueless all night.

I believe he can actually save the Batista match at WM from being shitted on, should it happen. If they book him right as a badass, similar to 2009, he can fuck around and get them to cheer him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Would anyone else prefer Lesnar/Batista to Main Event WM30 for the WWE Title to Orton/Batista? That would free up Bryan to challenge the Streak, lose, then win the title at ER the next month. That would also free up Orton and Triple H to fuck off, sounds like a dream scenario to me 

C2D-That "whooooo" when Angle locks in the Ankle lock on Austin at SS on the barricade gives me goosebumps every single time. People can say what they want about Kurt I really don't give a shit, not many people can say they delivered a baby face performance of that caliber in the history of wrestling. That's a top 5 match in WWE history for me, Kurt can't be THAT bad if he's capable of that. I'll admit, "Bad" work rate obsessed finisher spamming Kurt Angle sucks, but "good" smart working, intense, bad ass Kurt Angle was fucking awesome. Put Kurt in the ring with someone smart like Austin, Taker, Shawn, etc. he fucking killed it. The only mystery to me is how he was so BAD with Eddie at both WM and SS. Their 2/3 Falls and WWE TItle Matches on Smackdown were excellent, why did Kurt suck so bad at the big events with Eddie? It certainly wasn't Guerrero's fault, I'm not being biased that's just a fact.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Spot on. Plus, rumor has it they chose Seattle as the location for Extreme Rules because of Bryan. I think the plan is for him to win the title in his hometown after he beats Trips at Mania.


And imo that would be a fitting ending to a storyline coming full circle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> And imo that would be a fitting ending to a storyline coming full circle.




If they put him in the ring with a quality opponent (aka not Batista or Orton) Extreme Rules 2014 could be Daniel Bryans Money in the Bank 2011, if you know what I mean. I just wish there were some way for Lesnar to take the title at Mania and drop it to Bryan at Extreme Rules. The only way ER 2014 can become legendary for Bryan is if he delivers a ****1/2+ match. Going out there and stinking the joint up with Batista for 12 minutes won't get the job done, atleast IMO.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Batista would be built around the same dynamic as would Bryan/Lesnar (as WWE likes to think of Batista as some unstoppable monster), yet it wouldn't come close to being the David/Goliath battle of Bryan/Lesnar. If they can somehow give Brock the title @ Mania (perhaps in a triple threat against Orton and Batista) then Bryan/Lesnar @ ER in Bryan's home state would be epic. I just don't see it happening. I'm still curious how Orton/Batista will work, given Batista isn't necessarily receiving a babyface reaction, and I doubt Orton will be getting cheers as a heel like most heels do when they're facing Cena. Should be interesting.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, you have a point there. Even I find it hard to appreciate his style at times. What saved his "slow" performance at RR was the constant playing to the crowd. Just loved how he kept posing or taunting them in response to the random chants. He's come a long way in that department compared to last year in that Sheamus match where he looked clueless all night.
> 
> I believe he can actually save the Batista match at WM from being shitted on, should it happen. If they book him right as a badass, similar to 2009, he can fuck around and get them to cheer him.


A lot of people say valid criticism that I can see, even if I don't agree, but probably the dumbest criticism I've ever seen is that usual detractor, who actually criticized him for playing to the crowd. Do you know what I'm talking about? "He's a retard who thinks it's him getting heel heat" is what they said, or something along the lines. It's like, uh, how do you WANT him to react? He did exactly what he should have done.




Spoiler: spoiler






AwShit said:


> Orton was great last night tbh





Oxi said:


> Nah. Just showed how truly bad he is.
> 
> Either he thinks the reaction is a good thing, or, is the equivalent of a fifteen year old troll.





CamillePunk said:


> or he's a wrestling heel :draper2





Oxi said:


> The crowds don't care about his match and he resorts to taunting them. Either he knows he's overstayed his welcome (which makes him a wanker) or he legitimately is retarded enough to think he's a good heel.







I disagree. I think there's absolutely NOTHING they can do to not get shat on. It'll start right away, I promise. Even if Bryan gets a match with HHH or Taker. It won't matter. If he somehow gets the crowd not to shit on them, he's the miracle worker to end all miracle workers. You did have a good point earlier, that Orton/Cena actually did get the crowd to STFU toward the end there, so that's something. 

But yeah, the crowd at WM is totally gonna crap on Orton/Batista. They better be prepared with metaphorical riot gear. But yeah, they should just start trolling the audience immediately. Let 'em know that they're not ruining anyone's party. And yeah, Batista truly needs to be a heel.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clint Eastwood said:


> Yep


Well it is. I said that, went away, came back and everybody still talking about DA GAME.

I don't get why somebody would rather Bryan fight Taker and lose than fight HHH and win. Baffling. He has to beat him though. While Trips winning would provide endless amounts of :lmao it's not right. I understand why Punk didn't go over in 2011. HHH was never supposed to be in the match in the first place and he had Taker and the Streak coming up at Mania 28. He wasn't losing to Punk on a C PPV with a 2 week build. All the crying about Punk losing his momentum because of that loss is bullshit. He lost whatever momentum he had the second he returned on Raw and had that horrible title/theme battle with Cena. They did everything they could to keep Punk looking strong in that match including kicking out of a Pedigree which people seem to forget. 

Meh, who cares. Punk is gone and I'm over it. I'm going to Mania and Bryan/Trips is the match I want above all else since Taker/Cena is out it seems. Bryan vs. anybody is going to be the most active match on the card for Mania but Bryan vs. Trips after everything that has happened since Summerslam is going to be _electric_. Think about the pop fucking Big Show got for knocking HHH out. Now add about 60,000 more people, Wrestlemania, all the pent up anger from the last few months, HHH getting his comeuppance at the hands of Daniel Bryan 7 months after he screwed him out of the WWE title and it's going to be a classic moment for sure. Then we should be all set for a Bryan title win in Seattle the month after that and everything is just :mark: :mark: :mark:. 

But FUCK THEM if this match doesn't happen lol. 

inb4BryanvSeamuslololol


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> A lot of people say valid criticism that I can see, even if I don't agree, but probably the dumbest criticism I've ever seen is that usual detractor, who actually criticized him for playing to the crowd. Do you know what I'm talking about? "He's a retard who thinks it's him getting heel heat" is what they said, or something along the lines. It's like, uh, how do you WANT him to react? He did exactly what he should have done.


Hi.

No.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk kicked out of TWO pedigrees (I'm pretty sure).

Anyways, If Orton loses the strap at Mania, he's still owed a rematch, so Extreme Rules could end up being a triple threat I suppose. Bryan/Lesnar isn't happening at Extreme Rules. Too many things would have to happen in a short amount of time. Hunter working as a full blown heel against a babyface Bryan has the makings of a classic, so I'm really looking forward to that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ Same HHH. 

And Orton can always have a rematch on Raw the following night. Raw after Mania is always huge. That way Orton can be written out of the title picture prior to ER if that's the route they're taking.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> A lot of people say valid criticism that I can see, even if I don't agree, but probably the dumbest criticism I've ever seen is that usual detractor, who actually criticized him for playing to the crowd. Do you know what I'm talking about? "He's a retard who thinks it's him getting heel heat" is what they said, or something along the lines. It's like, uh, how do you WANT him to react? He did exactly what he should have done.


Orton haters tend to not be very bright (not those in this thread because we all realize the Legend Killer rules) but you quoted quite possibly the worst out of the bunch (and another one of the many terrible posters I've ignore listed) so I just don't read any of the posts.



> I disagree. I think there's absolutely NOTHING they can do to not get shat on. It'll start right away, I promise. Even if Bryan gets a match with HHH or Taker. It won't matter. If he somehow gets the crowd not to shit on them, he's the miracle worker to end all miracle workers. You did have a good point earlier, that Orton/Cena actually did get the crowd to STFU toward the end there, so that's something.
> 
> But yeah, the crowd at WM is totally gonna crap on Orton/Batista. They better be prepared with metaphorical riot gear. But yeah, they should just start trolling the audience immediately. Let 'em know that they're not ruining anyone's party. And yeah, Batista truly needs to be a heel.


You have a point, but if HHH gets his come-uppance earlier in the night and Bryan becomes #1 contender for Extreme Rules, I think they'll be in a better mood for the main event and _can_ be convinced to feel otherwise. Batista and Orton should just go all out trolling. That's the one way the crowd can get worked, regardless of heel/face alignments.



Starbuck said:


> Well it is. I said that, went away, came back and everybody still talking about DA GAME.
> 
> I don't get why somebody would rather Bryan fight Taker and lose than fight HHH and win. Baffling. He has to beat him though. While Trips winning would provide endless amounts of :lmao it's not right. I understand why Punk didn't go over in 2011. HHH was never supposed to be in the match in the first place and he had Taker and the Streak coming up at Mania 28. He wasn't losing to Punk on a C PPV with a 2 week build. All the crying about Punk losing his momentum because of that loss is bullshit. He lost whatever momentum he had the second he returned on Raw and had that horrible title/theme battle with Cena. They did everything they could to keep Punk looking strong in that match including kicking out of a Pedigree which people seem to forget.
> 
> ...


:mark: @ all of this. They can easily correct all the errors with this and non-hardcore Punk loyalists will quickly forget about him and move on to Bryan fully.

I really hope HHH moves on to Bryan now for WM. Punk doesn't _deserve_ a match with him after walking out like a bitch. Stick him with Kane or tell him to fuck off. He's a non-factor and has been for over half a year now.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thinking about your post, C2D, I think that the only way that they could get the crowd remotely on their side, is if they did a bunch of unexpected submission moves and things like that. Just the amusement & speculation as to what would come next, might be enough to turn the reaction around. 

It should build up to that to make the most sense, obviously, but then again, even if they somehow managed to have the greatest, most well-thought out match in the world (I know, I know), it's not gonna get a chance from the crowd to begin with. So I think this is a scenario where it almost has to be "who cares if it really makes sense" if we're talking strictly in terms of just trying to get the crowd to calm down. So just go for sheer flat out fun.

Imagine one of them doing the Hogan leg drop or something? lol. I think that they should just essentially troll the audience that way, and I think that might be the way to get the crowd into just having fun.

I don't forsee this happening, though, and it's probably not the best thing suited to each guys' personality, but I'm just thinking of possible scenarios in which the crowd might shut up. Don't even think this is necessarily for the best, because really, their whole focus shouldn't even be toward the crowd reaction, but whatevs.

What'd you think of the Attitude Era crowd argument? You can rep me the response, if you want.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey starbuck can I post in here again w/o being ban ? PLS its my life, I'll watch a :hhh2 match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Thinking about your post, C2D, I think that the only way that they could get the crowd remotely on their side, is if they did a bunch of unexpected submission moves and things like that. Just the amusement & speculation as to what would come next, might be enough to turn the reaction around.
> 
> It should build up to that to make the most sense, obviously, but then again, even if they somehow managed to have the greatest, most well-thought out match in the world (I know, I know), it's not gonna get a chance from the crowd to begin with. So I think this is a scenario where it almost has to be "who cares if it really makes sense" if we're talking strictly in terms of just trying to get the crowd to calm down. So just go for sheer flat out fun.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I don't understand why Orton doesn't use submission holds more often. Every time he's used one, the execution has been good (he needs to sit further down on the Boston Crab, though).

When a match becomes fun, the crowd forgets about everything else. If they did some unusual shit like going to the top rope (c'mon Randy, ONE MORE CROSSBODY!), stealing finishers or exchanging submission moves along with taunting the crowd if they chant Bryan's name - they would have a good chance of winning them over. Combining that with the crowd being in a good mood if H puts Bryan over.



> What'd you think of the Attitude Era crowd argument? You can rep me the response, if you want.


lol, what AE crowd argument?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I really hope HHH moves on to Bryan now for WM. Punk doesn't _deserve_ a match with him after walking out like a bitch. Stick him with Kane or tell him to fuck off. He's a non-factor and has been for over half a year now.


A match vs. HHH isn't big enough for Punk anyway :lol. Fuck knows what the hell he wanted. A match with Hunter is bigger than a title match with Orton tbh, especially since there's no chance of Orton/Punk closing over Taker, Lesnar, Batista, HHH's matches. The whole thing is just madness and every time you think of something, you think of something else to contradict yourself lol. I know my friend who is travelling to Mania with me is pretty upset about the whole Punk situation because he's a huge mark but even he's pissed AT him for walking out the one time of year so many people are travelling from around the world to see him. Me though? I couldn't give a single fuck, especially since it makes Trips/Bryan just about a lock. 

Hopefully HHH getting his head kicked in and/or tapping out will be enough to placate the fans for the main event. I mean, despite the amount of shit they were getting, Orton and Cena did manage to quell the boos at certain times throughout their match and I can see the same happening for Orton and Batista if they get a bit of a hot streak going. But yes, for the most part these guys just have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I don't think anybody envy's them, how funny considering a guy just walked out over not getting their spot.

*SKINS ADMIT ZIGGLER IS SHIT AND THAT HHH > HBK AND YOU'RE ALLOWED BACK IN.*


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton haters tend to not be very bright (not those in this thread because we all realize the Legend Killer rules) but you quoted quite possibly the worst out of the bunch (and another one of the many terrible posters I've ignore listed) so I just don't read any of the posts.


Any of you respectable gentlemen and/or ladies who has conversations with C2D should probably re-think what you're doing, as he _clearly_ doesn't know even himself.

:ti


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton flame war incoming?

:rko2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think the only way the crowd doesn't shit on Batista/Orton for the title is if Bryan/HHH happens AFTER that match. Plus even if Bryan beats HHH and then the title match follows, the crowd will probably be exhausted from Bryan/HHH and will be dead for Batista/Orton, which might actually be worse than having it get shit on.

Which brings up something else, how do they put the Mania card in order, assuming it's Taker/Brock, Bryan/HHH and Batista/Orton for the title? I think the best option would be to have Taker/Brock early in the show (like Taker/HHH WM28), Batista/Orton as second-to-close and Bryan/HHH to be the final match (or switch Taker/Brock and Bryan/HHH's place, although I don't see that happening due to Taker/Brock being two part-timers). I'm not sure how I feel about the title match not main eventing now that the titles are unified, but I don't think they have a choice if they don't want the crowd to be totally dead for it.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Orton flame war incoming?
> 
> :rko2


No.

Ironically, the thread I made on Orton, that you closed (for no reason, but whatever), was apparently well received by C2D. He even said I brought up some fine points and he understood why people didn't like Orton. He even mentioned that he agreed on many parts.

Also, I even noted how I really liked the Legend Killer phase. And he basically outright implies that I don't in the post above.

The guy's fickle.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Oh lawd this at this


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Orton's still good.

The Legend Killer days were the SHIT though. I prefer his cocky, brash, young punk style from those days rather than his cold, calculating demeanor today, though it seems that Orton's bringing back his inner diva (in a good way) in recent months.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Orton flame war? :woolcock


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *SKINS ADMIT ZIGGLER IS SHIT AND THAT HHH > HBK AND YOU'RE ALLOWED BACK IN.*


:mark: :mark:

:hhh2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Oxi said:


> No.
> 
> Ironically, the thread I made on Orton, that you closed (for no reason, but whatever), was apparently well received by C2D. He even said I brought up some fine points and he understood why people didn't like Orton. He even mentioned that he agreed on many parts.
> 
> ...


I close a lot of threads, usually because they'll likely become a flame war, they're on their way to becoming a flame war or already are a flame war, also because I like to abuse my power and close threads about Orton for no reason.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Orton :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> A match vs. HHH isn't big enough for Punk anyway :lol. Fuck knows what the hell he wanted. A match with Hunter is bigger than a title match with Orton tbh, especially since there's no chance of Orton/Punk closing over Taker, Lesnar, Batista, HHH's matches. The whole thing is just madness and every time you think of something, you think of something else to contradict yourself lol. I know my friend who is travelling to Mania with me is pretty upset about the whole Punk situation because he's a huge mark but even he's pissed AT him for walking out the one time of year so many people are travelling from around the world to see him. Me though? I couldn't give a single fuck, especially since it makes Trips/Bryan just about a lock.


Nothing is big enough for him unless Austin lays down for him in the final match of the night. His unwarranted ego is just hilarious.

I still fail to understand this huge appeal he has to some people. I guess I do understand it but then when I see all the people who are like "I CAN'T WATCH ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY REASON" even though he had been coasting for months and undeservedly getting top billing above a hard worker and more over Bryan - I get confused.

If he was really penciled in for the Royal Rumble and main event of WM, then thank God for Batista. :lol



> Hopefully HHH getting his head kicked in and/or tapping out will be enough to placate the fans for the main event. I mean, despite the amount of shit they were getting, Orton and Cena did manage to quell the boos at certain times throughout their match and I can see the same happening for Orton and Batista if they get a bit of a hot streak going. But yes, for the most part these guys just have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I don't think anybody envy's them, how funny considering a guy just walked out over not getting their spot.


Yeah, I think that will put them in a good enough mood to play along with Batista/Orton if they actually make it fun instead of boring headlock exchanges and excessive punches. At least Orton has the Cena match to go off of to innovate on how to play towards a hostile crowd.

As for flame war, I assume I got a butthurt response, right? Nah, I ain't joining that nonsense so don't worry.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Orton's still good.
> 
> The Legend Killer days were the SHIT though. I prefer his cocky, brash, young punk style from those days rather than his cold, calculating demeanor today, though it seems that Orton's bringing back his inner diva (in a good way) in recent months.


I wholeheartedly disagree about Orton still being good.

But I wholeheartedly agree about the Legend Killer being fantastic.

Sadly C2D won't read my retorts because I'm supposedly on his ignore list even though he positively repped me and had only kind words for the Orton thread I made.
:ann1


_I guess that was just a front_.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS said:


> :lmao Oh lawd this at this


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd rather watch Punk/Orton than Batista/Orton though, C2D. I may not be a fan of the guy but I'd sure as shit rather watch his matches than Batista's and I don't even mind Big Dave. In the right scenario with the right guy he has produced some awesome stuff. But I don't think Orton and the current predicament they're in is anything but a recipe for disaster. Heel Orton and Face Punk would have been a nice change from their last Mania match imo and before the entire wrestling world went to shit, Punk/Orton for the title was the match I was actually pulling for.

Orton(c) vs. Punk (Rumble Winner)
HHH/Bryan
Taker/Cena
Brock/Batista

That's the card I wanted. Looks like I'll get one of my matches along with Batista/Orton with the rest very much up in the air.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

would you like me to quote for you OXI ?


@Starbuck that might be the hardest ultimatum ever :hbk3 :ziggler2 4 lyfe


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'd rather watch Punk/Orton than Batista/Orton though, C2D. I may not be a fan of the guy but I'd sure as shit rather watch his matches than Batista's and I don't even mind Big Dave. In the right scenario with the right guy he has produced some awesome stuff. But I don't think Orton and the current predicament they're in is anything but a recipe for disaster. Heel Orton and Face Punk would have been a nice change from their last Mania match imo and before the entire wrestling world went to shit, Punk/Orton for the title was the match I was actually pulling for.
> 
> Orton(c) vs. Punk (Rumble Winner)
> HHH/Bryan
> ...


Match quality and crowd would've probably been better, but being a proud fan, it would be hard to stomach Orton laying down and dropping the title for Punk in the grandest stage. The enemy don't deserve to enjoy that. rton2 unk3


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Nah man.

I don't have anything against Choke2Death apart from that stab he took at me, after putting me on ignore... after strongly agreeing with me.

I don't dislike C2D. Certainly not enough to force him to see my response. I'm on his ignore. He has me there for a reason. I just felt that I had to address it so other people don't make the mistake of believing some of the stuff he spews.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

About a month ago I was extremely hyped at the potential Mania card with all the moving parts. Now that it's beginning to solidify itself, I can't help but be a bit disappointed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Match quality and crowd would've probably been better, but being a proud fan, it would be hard to stomach Orton laying down and dropping the title for Punk in the grandest stage. The enemy don't deserve to enjoy that. rton2 unk3




For me, if they reset everything, this is the best card we could have gotten for WM 30:

Main Events:

Cena vs Undertaker for the Streak (30 Minutes, Taker wins)
Lesnar vs Bryan for the WWE Title (Lesnar won the title in the chamber) (30 Minutes, Lesnar wins)
Orton vs Batista No Holds Barred Match (Grudge match after Batista causes Orton to lose the title) (13 Minutes, Batista Wins)
CM Punk vs Triple H (20 Minutes, Punk wins)

Mid Card:

The Shield vs The Wyatts in a TLC Match (20 Minutes, Wyatt's win Shield begins split)
ADR vs Rey Mysterio Hair vs Mask Match (15 Minutes) (Rey's retirement match, ADR wins)
Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro (15 Minutes, Cesaro wins)

Opening Matches:

Christian vs Mark Henry (12 Minutes, Henry wins)
Cody Rhodes vs Goldust (15 minutes, Cody who is the heel wins by cheating)

Total: 3 hours, enough time for entrances and a few backstage segments, musical performance, and the obligatory Divas match to make it a full 4 hours. WWE should hire me 



Bryan loses to Lesnar after interference by Paul Heyman, setting up a rematch at Extreme Rules in Seattle. We either get a Hell in a Cell match or an IronMan match, and Bryan wins.

It's a shame we might only get 2 of these matches this year, if we are lucky


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ Except that Manias are 4 hours long. 

Anyone know if this Mania will be 5 hours like Mania XX was? Idk if they have the roster depth to chew up 5 hours tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oxi said:


> Nah man.
> 
> I don't have anything against Choke2Death apart from that stab he took at me, after putting me on ignore... after strongly agreeing with me.
> 
> I don't dislike C2D. Certainly not enough to force him to see my response. I'm on his ignore. He has me there for a reason. I just felt that I had to address it so other people don't make the mistake of believing some of the stuff he spews.




Can you please either discuss matches and wrestlers or leave the thread? You are coming off like C2D's jilted lover bro, it's not a good look. I know you are a good poster normally so don't bring flame wars into our thread, it's one of the few decent places on this forum. We try to keep shit kosher in here, know what I mean?


Edit- FUCK TLK you are RIGHT! I can add 1-2 matches to that or give the ones I already have some more time!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Tbh 8-10 matches is about right. Throw in a divas match and then a bunch of filler (some awful musical act) and you'll reach the 3 hour, 40 minute mark (PPVs always end early).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> For me, if they reset everything, this is the best card we could have gotten for WM 30:


That would've been a hell of a card, but if it wasn't for Batista winning the Rumble, my title match would've been Brock vs Orton with Brock turning face temporarily and Bryan would get his revenge against HHH. (with the idea that Punk has walked out and if he comes back, he works a undercard match with Kane.) 

Orton/Brock (title)
Bryan/HHH
Cena/Taker (the main event)
Batista/Sheamus

And the other undercard stuff are just perfect. I hope Cesaro gets his chance this year after being left off last year. Bryan wins and becomes #1 contender. Brock becomes champion and drops it to Bryan at ER. You utilize him against two people and get the best of everything.

While they don't have the roster for a 5 hour show, I think they can fit in all the important people (including midcarders) in 4 hours.



Cactus Jack said:


> Can you please either discuss matches and wrestlers or leave the thread? You are coming off like C2D's jilted lover bro, it's not a good look. I know you are a good poster normally so don't bring flame wars into our thread, it's one of the few decent places on this forum.


Pretty much. I don't like you and I don't feel like giving an in-depth response as to why. Maybe another day somewhere else. Get over it and move on, it's just a forum.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Tbh 8-10 matches is about right. Throw in a divas match and then a bunch of filler (some awful musical act) and you'll reach the 3 hour, 40 minute mark (PPVs always end early).


Forgot the divas match. Yea, have a big Team AJ vs Team Bellas match for about 8 minutes, add 2-3 minutes to all the matches I listed, and we will call it a day. I think every wrestling fan would be atleast satisfied with that card, if not downright thrilled. Which begs the question, a.) why the hell didn't WWE give us this card and b.) why the hell haven't they hired me yet


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright guys, lets just drop our differences and talk about something good....LIKE RICK RUDE :mark:

Did I mention that I'm carefully considering that Rude/Steamer BB 92 might be at the full 5


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Alright guys, lets just drop our differences and talk about something good....LIKE RICK RUDE :mark:
> 
> Did I mention that I'm carefully considering that Rude/Steamer BB 92 might be at the full 5




For me, that match is CERTAINLY a 5-star affair. Top 3 match in WCW History on my list. Love it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

so great, might need a rewatch even though I watched it only the other day


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Can you please either discuss matches and wrestlers or leave the thread? You are coming off like C2D's jilted lover bro, it's not a good look. I know you are a good poster normally so don't bring flame wars into our thread, it's one of the few decent places on this forum. We try to keep shit kosher in here, know what I mean?


I didn't have the intention on posting at all after that fiasco. That was meant to be my last post until you replied. 
Another poster just directed me to the post I was mentioned in and I took exception. I hope you understand.

As long as I'm not mentioned again from here on out I won't post here again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> so great, might need a rewatch even though I watched it only the other day



Thats a match you really can't watch TOO MUCH, you know what I mean? So many great subtleties in both Rudes and Steamers performance, the more you watch it, the more you appreciate it,


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> For me, that match is CERTAINLY a 5-star affair. Top 3 match in WCW History on my list. Love it.


Damn, it sounds like a must watch. I have not seen anything by Rude but Steamboat has been great in every match I've seen of his.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If you like Orton when hes cocky then your gonna cream all over Rude


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Rude/Steamboat :moyes1

People always say that Steamboat is the greatest seller or babyface in peril or whatever, but in that match I honestly think hat not only was Rude's selling equally as good, Steamboat's offense was fantastic as well. Both guys were just perfect in pretty much everything they did. Awesome, awesome stuff. I'm not sure where I'd have it in terms of an all time list, but it'd be up there. Then again, I have a lot of five star matches (or equivalent. I have a lot of matches I'd give five stars if I used the system, a lot more than most others.)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Damn, it sounds like a must watch. I have not seen anything by Rude but Steamboat has been great in every match I've seen of his.



If you like Orton, I don't see how you will not go APE over Rude in that match. Definitely add it to the top of your "must watch" list.

Another one for you and Smitty is the match I'm watching right now, Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Bash at the Beach 1994. Absolute classic, you'll thank me later for reccomending it. Austin is amazing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll watch that immediately after I finish what im watching on netflix 

thanks


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

FLUX said:


> Then again, I have a lot of five star matches (or equivalent. I have a lot of matches I'd give five stars if I used the system, a lot more than most others.)


I have 80+ at last count but that includes puro/indies. I have Rude/Steamboat at _only_ ****3/4. One of my few ****3/4 matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> If you like Orton when hes cocky then your gonna cream all over Rude





Cactus Jack said:


> If you like Orton, I don't see how you will not go APE over Rude in that match. Definitely add it to the top of your "must watch" list.


Damn near back to back posts pointing it out, so it must be good. 

Although I'm not a fan of the "pic of woman on his crotch" thing that I've seen on a few snippets.



> Another one for you and Smitty is the match I'm watching right now, Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Bash at the Beach 1994. Absolute classic, you'll thank me later for reccomending it. Austin is amazing.


LOLlonghairAustin. It's so weird to watch him with that goofy blond hair when you're used to that bald head.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just a quick note guys... don't start shit in here again. We have a rants forum if you have a beef with anyone for starters, plus we don't need anyone randomly quoting other people in other threads in here to start a discussion on that, regardless of how dumb you might think their post was.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Damn near back to back posts pointing it out, so it must be good.
> 
> Although I'm not a fan of the "pic of woman on his crotch" thing that I've seen on a few snippets.
> 
> ...



That picture of a woman on his crotch thing was actually done for an angle. Rude was in a feud with Jake the Snake Roberts, and that picture was of Jakes wife. The whole angle got set up because Rude used to do this awesome thing where he'd pick a random woman (usually a plant I'd guess) to come in the ring and get a taste of his "ravishing lips" :lmao. Well one time he picked out a woman, and it was Jakes the Snakes (actual) real wife. She refused the kiss and slapped Rude, Rude was about to slap her when Roberts came out for the save and that set up their match. To get in Jakes head he put a picture of his wife on his tights. Is that not great or what?

Austin has short blonde hair in the match I listed, but yea it is a bit off putting. I thought he was wonderful back in WCW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Figures that would be a one-time thing since the Jake Roberts DVD is where I got it from. :lol

It's funny because the other day I was on Jake's twitter and when someone tweeted him about that angle, he said Rude should've taken her or something along the lines. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Figures that would be a one-time thing since the Jake Roberts DVD is where I got it from. :lol
> 
> It's funny because the other day I was on Jake's twitter and when someone tweeted him about that angle, he said Rude should've taken her or something along the lines. :lol



Jakes awesome, that DVD was absolutely heart breaking to watch though. I've been clean for 4 years, but I still remember how shitty everything was as an active junkie. To see what Jake went through as a child, it's amazing to me that he persevered and made it to where he is today. He was actually an excellent worker too from what I've seen, I've seen awesome matches with him vs Steamboat, Rude, Savage. Etc.

You never really said whether you've seen Austin/Steamboat BatB, I'm in the finishing stretch now and I'm loving this even more than I remembered. I think it's worthy of ****1/2, maybe even ****3/4 honestly. The more I watch of Austin, the bigger a fan I become.

P.s. Since you don't have PMs I have to ask you here. You mentioned you live in Sweden, how the hell does a guy on Sweden become a massive fan of the Geto Boys? I didn't realize they had an international fan base tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Jakes awesome, that DVD was absolutely heart breaking to watch though. I've been clean for 4 years, but I still remember how shitty everything was as an active junkie. To see what Jake went through as a child, it's amazing to me that he persevered and made it to where he is today. He was actually an excellent worker too from what I've seen, I've seen awesome matches with him vs Steamboat, Rude, Savage. Etc.


Yeah, pretty deep story he has. It's amazing he's survived through so much and is now feeling better than he has in decades. And now with the Hall of Fame induction, I couldn't be happier for him. Seen some of his mic work and he's an absolute great on the stick. Now I need to familiarize myself with his ring work, heard a lot about his "psychology" and he's the master & innovator of the DDT.



> You never really said whether you've seen Austin/Steamboat BatB, I'm in the finishing stretch now and I'm loving this even more than I remembered. I think it's worthy of ****1/2, maybe even ****3/4 honestly. The more I watch of Austin, the bigger a fan I become.


Haven't seen it, somebody once posted a video from it in this forum a long time ago and I just saw the beginning which cracked me up because that was my first time seeing Austin with hair and it was weird.

PMs are enabled now, so I can answer the Geto Boys question there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone who has Jake's DVD *NEEDS* to watch the SMW match against Dirty White Boy. If there is ONE match I could point to in order to show people why Jake is thought so highly of when it comes to wrestling "psychology", then it's that fucking match. One of my all time favs, top 10 all time fav. It's just incredible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> It certainly wasn't Guerrero's fault, I'm not being biased that's just a fact.


IDK, Eddie was just as bad as Angle at SummerSlam 04. Worst performance of his carer I can remember. I've always liked the Mania match to at least some extent.

Also yeah the 'wooooo tap you son of a bitch' ankle lock at SummerSlam 01 is like my favourite moment of Angle's career. 

-----------------------------

Christian:

Christian v. Test (SmackDown 1/25/01)
Other than Test putting his head between Christian’s legs while Christian was on the top rope for a great mid-rope back body drop, and the ending boot, this was five minutes of absolutely nothing. There was some wrestling that wasn’t good or really bad and it left, like, no impression on me whatsoever. Zeke in the Khali match put on a performance 300 times better than anything in this.

Christian/Jericho v. Kane/the Hurricane (Raw 10/12/02)
Beginning of Raw, with the WWE Signature ending with Eric Bischoff’s face where the WWE logo usually is. Can’t get any worse, any least. OH-HOH-HOH wait a minute we start the show with a recap of HHH talking about Katie Vick. Wow I have not missed Kane’s shitty Finger Eleven music either. Haven’t heard it in what feels like two years and even with nostalgia I do not want to. OK some stuff happens pre match with Booker T who cares whatever. I have to mention holy CRAP @ Kane rolling Christian in the ring. Christian didn’t even roll; he slid while on his knees in what looks really hard to pull off. Some of this was pretty fun during the shine when Christian and Jericho got to be stooges. Favourite part was Jericho rocketing off screen from the apron when Christian was whipped into him. Helms shaking his hand in pain after tagging Kane in was great too. This was pretty messy otherwise. Not so messy that it sucked; just messy enough to not really know how to react to it. It was passable.

Christian v. Carlito (Raw the Night Before NXT First Aired 2010)
Wait, Carlito was a pro on NXT? WHY!? Oh well at least they realised he sucked not long after. He didn’t actually suck in this, though, dang. He didn’t really do anything noteworthy but he seemed to give a shit and looked better than I would have given him credit for beforehand. Christian slipping during his ‘stand on them mid-rope’ thing was kind of funny. Other than that this was also kind of messy and maybe the worst Christian match I can remember seeing from 2009 or 2010. I really wish I had something to say about it but I don’t. Wasn’t even bad, but Christian babyface matches usually have a certain greatness about them and this was missing it completely. 

Christian v. Jeff Hardy (Raw 3/3/03)
In some form of cheap heat Christian and Jericho abuse Stacey Kiebler or something and this is I think Hardy’s first chance at revenge after failing to help. Not much of a revenge match, but OK wrestling. Jeff is typically a guy who I think can make his high flyer offense looks impactful, but I don’t really see him as a guy who can make it hateful. Guys like that a pretty rare outside of Mexico anyway. I’m not feeling this Christian very much. He’s a pretty cool bumper sometimes and shoots some nice clubs and stomps but he has little that separates him from any other wrestler that is ‘pretty good’. He needed that babyface turn way earlier. Best part of this match was the front suplex on the ropes resulting in Jeff totally crashing. 

Christian v. Goldberg (Raw 2003)
CAGE MATCH WELL HELLOOOOO. OK I’m not the biggest cage match fan but the past four Christian matches I’ve watched have been just kinda there so with Goldberg in a cage I was hoping for something more unique and fun. Got it. Goldberg almost got hit by a car or some shit earlier on Raw and they think it might have been Christian for some reason, IDK it’s Raw 2003 it sucks. And as much as it was a shitty type of revenge whatever, this was a much better revenge match than Christian/Hardy, and a legitimately good seven minutes altogether. Goldberg knows how to punish and smack talk a bitch and Christian was willing to bump a couple of times. He had to use the chair to get on top, and it made a pretty little theme of Goldberg not staying down long enough for Christian to climb out of the cage. Goldberg’s comeback is less energetic than normal, but after all those chair shots (and there were a lot, some where he kind of got up too early), it should have been less energetic than normal. There was a great moment of Christian going for his own spear, Goldberg dodging it, then collapsing while holding his ribs. Raw had a disgusting 2003 so this is probably a low end MOTYC for it.


----
Matt Borne b nxt


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Alright guys, lets just drop our differences and talk about something good....LIKE RICK RUDE :mark:
> 
> Did I mention that I'm carefully considering that Rude/Steamer BB 92 might be at the full 5


Twas a fun watch. Rude's taking such control in the first 10 minutes paved the way for Steamboat to execute a terrific babyface comeback in the last 10-12 minutes after Rude just uses the clock to his advantage in the middle portion. That knee shot to Steamboat in the corner was nasty. Rude taking control and hitting the Rude Awakening almost immediately and going up 2 falls to none, then getting himself DQ'd, only to inflict more punishment to get another fall. That counter into the Tombstone :mark: Need more Rude in my life. 

Fun fact: I did not know it used to be illegal to jump off the top rope and land on your opponent, but the superplex was legal.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^So much :mark: in that match, glad you enjoyed


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Fun fact: I did not know it used to be illegal to jump off the top rope and land on your opponent, but the superplex was legal.


Wasn't illegal elsewhere and hell I don't think it was illegal in WCW until Watts came in (it was illegal in Mid-South IIRC). Throwing your opponent over the top rope was also illegal. Kind of weird to think about stuff like that now, but it made for great heel spots to do when the ref's back is turned. Plus a guy like Bobby Eaton had his finisher as a top rope move so it was lethal whenever he did it. I forgot about suplerplex being legal, damn. Seems bizarre that they would still allow that.

Writing this made me miss watching 92 WCW. I should do what I said I was going to do in 2011 and buy that entire year in full.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Guys any 5 stars matches in the last few years? (2008-2013)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Punk vs Cena - MitB 11
HBK vs Taker - WM 25

Others would say:
HHH vs Taker - WM 27 and 28
HBK vs Taker - WM 26
Brock vs Cena - ER 2012
Brock vs Punk - SummerSlam 2013
maybe Shield vs Hell No/Ryback - TLC 2012


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Guys any 5 stars matches in the last few years? (2008-2013)


HBK vs Taker WM 25 and 26

Punk vs Cena MITB

Brock vs Cena ER


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> HBK vs Taker WM 25 and 26
> 
> Punk vs Cena MITB
> 
> Brock vs Cena ER





bigbuxxx said:


> Punk vs Cena - MitB 11
> HBK vs Taker - WM 25
> 
> Others would say:
> ...


Glad to see you guys really love the Cena/Lesnar Extreme Rules match. It was really brutal and cena looked really hurt after the match.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Never seen 5 stars for any HHH/Taker WM..


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> Punk vs Cena - MitB 11
> HBK vs Taker - WM 25
> 
> Others would say:
> ...


Cena/Bryan


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> I have 80+ at last count but that includes puro/indies. I have Rude/Steamboat at _only_ ****3/4. One of my few ****3/4 matches.


Post your list? 



Choke2Death said:


> LOLlonghairAustin. It's so weird to watch him with that goofy blond hair when you're used to that bald head.


When Stone Cold started getting big it was so weird because I still saw him as Stunning Steve with long hair. I always thought his matches were good but it's weird looking back in like 1992 and how he'd become one of the most popular stars ever.

It would be like in 5 years if Cesaro or Sandow was a household name.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

To add to the list, though I wouldn't say these are necessarily five star matches, they are still highly recommended viewing:

Sheamus/Bryan - 2/3 Falls - ER 2012
Punk/Cena - Raw in early 2013
Punk/Bryan - Over The Limit 2012
Punk/Taker - WM 29
Punk/Cena - Night of Champions 2012


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i watched hogan/flair from string stampede 1999 last night

:lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WWE's confiscating CM Punk signs at NXT, and when the crowd was told to chant NXT, they all chanted CM Punk. This just proves the fact that Punk quitting is not a work. I figured it wasn't, but this proves it. Wow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course it's legit.

I feel like adding something else here. Hmm.

I miss Evan Bourne.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i might watch GAB 1999 later, any good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unless you like seeing Sting getting mauled by RABID DOGS, it isn't.

Recall it being a one match show. The one match being Triad vs Benoit/Saturn.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw 1999 ppv mood. what do you recommend? im watching them in order. i shall skip GAB 1999


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Wasn't Evan Bourne supposed to return at the Rumble? Or any time within the past few months? It's getting to the point where WWE might as well release him so I never have to wonder when he's going to return. :vince7


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> wcw 1999 ppv mood. what do you recommend? im watching them in order. i shall skip GAB 1999


Spring Stampede is a good show. Souled Out 1999 is almost worth it for Benoit vs Enos alone. Most of their PPVs at this time were usually under the format of being mostly bleh, w/one - two good matches. That trend began at Slamboree basically. Fall Brawl isn't too bad, iirc.

If you're really wanting to watch 'em, go for it. Still fun for the nostalgia trip and to laugh at the wrestlecrap. Bash at the Beach, Mayhem, & Starrcade are stacked on the latter.



PGSucks said:


> Wasn't Evan Bourne supposed to return at the Rumble? Or any time within the past few months? It's getting to the point where WWE might as well release him so I never have to wonder when he's going to return. :vince7


No idea. Heard rumblings here and there since 2012, yet, zilch. It's honestly outlandish. Over two years now? Cut the cord, WWE. There's no point.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've watched Souled Out already, really enjoyed Benoit/Enos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

I say go down the road in order then. Watch any match that catches your eye. Best way to go. If not watching all the shows completely. Don't remember Sting vs Goldberg from Slamboree, but that could be right up your alley.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK, Eddie was just as bad as Angle at SummerSlam 04. Worst performance of his carer I can remember. I've always liked the Mania match to at least some extent.
> 
> Also yeah the 'wooooo tap you son of a bitch' ankle lock at SummerSlam 01 is like my favourite moment of Angle's career.
> 
> -----------------------------



Looks like I'll have to dust that match off and actually watch it again for the first time in 3 or 4 years. I just remember Eddie looking completely lost in that match, like he had no clue what the hell to do with Angle. The WM 20 match isn't actually THAT bad, it's actually rather good, it was just disappointing considering how hot Eddie had been up to that point and Angle being a capable guy when he's getting the proper direction. Their 2/3 Falls and 2005 WWE Title matches are eons better than both WM and SS imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Of course it's legit.
> 
> I feel like adding something else here. Hmm.
> 
> I miss Evan Bourne.


:sadpanda

I want very few things in life, but Evan Bourne is one of them. People talk about dream matches with the current roster and I legit think Evan's in at least five or six of mine. Probably more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I can get Drew McIntyre vs Evan Bourne on Superstars fairly often, WWE will win me back.

It really can be that simple. Not asking for much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I PM'd you.
> 
> If you still can take an upload request, any chance you have Steamboat vs Regal Halloween Havoc?


*Steven Regal vs Ricky Steamboat - WCW Fall Brawl 1993*

x1aotlj


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thinking of a reason why I shouldn't watch this peach of a match atm.

There isn't one. Oh yeah. :hayley1


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Gonna watch all EC matches in preparation I think :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Clint Eastwood said:


> *Steven Regal vs Ricky Steamboat - WCW Fall Brawl 1993*
> 
> x1aotlj


You Rock thanks man.




HayleySabin said:


> Thinking of a reason why I shouldn't watch this peach of a match atm.
> 
> There isn't one. Oh yeah. :hayley1




You're absolutely right, no reason on Earth not to sit down and enjoy that work of art. I can't wait until work is over and I can spend the rest of my weekend watching pro graps, going to the Wizards/Thunder game to see the Slim Reaper in person, then watch the Super Bowl. This has the potential to be a ****1/2 weekend.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Skimming through Steamboats stuff at Cagematch and see Big Dave gave Rude/Ricky ***1/2. wow. Seems like his style of match to. idk how anybody can give that < **** at the very least.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rude/Ricky isn't Puro, so of course Big Dave only gave it ***1/2 

I still dont understand why people treat :meltzer opinion like god


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Skimming through Steamboats stuff at Cagematch and see Big Dave gave Rude/Ricky ***1/2. wow. Seems like his style of match to. idk how anybody can give that < **** at the very least.


IMO, a fair few of Dave's match reviews seem to be either too high or too low alot of the time.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

:argh: I don't. I just find it interesting. It's a good baseline for matches if you haven't seen them before imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I wasn't talking to you really, just people on this site in general 

I mean, ROCK VS PUNK IS 4 FUCKING STARS????


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, Big Dave ratings are weird most of the time.. he had the main event MITB from MITB 2013 ****1/2.. I didn't even think it was the best MITB on the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD this week:



Spoiler: being nice for you who haven't seen it yet since it doesn't air in the US or UK for a number of hours yet



Ziggler Vs Cesaro was plenty of fun . Cesaro powers Ziggler around, and Ziggler bumps like Ziggler bumps. Nice to see that POWERPLEX again :mark:. Not as impressive looking as the one he did to Kofi that one time, but still great. I do have to :lmao that Ziggler is still using the Fameasser and barely getting 2 counts while Billy Gunn is back wrestling and winning TITLES with it . Man, Cesaro's POWER impresses me every single match he's in. Just how fucking strong IS he? Oh shit @ the attempted Uppercut reversed into a DDT :mark:. Looked smooth as FUCK and not in a way that made it look like that was the exact spot planned, but as in Cesaro definitely looked like he wanted to hit the uppercut and Ziggler was able to counter at just the right moment. CESARO WINS. Cesaro in the EC :mark:. FUCK YES. Potential GOAT chamber match this year. Well... ok honestly probably not, just because the 05 one didn't JUST have the talent, it had numerous stories and guys with history all meshed together, this one really only had the talent because who gives a fuck about Orton/Cena's history? And Bryan/Orton history ain't exactly thrilling either. And that's it. Still, the great talent (and Orton) inside the chamber should give us something special if they don't fuck it up. Oh yeah around ***1/4 for the match btw .

THE SHIELD. This show is on a roll already. PROMO~! Honestly I think the one thing missing from THE SHIELD since their debut is promos. Sure they do those backstage ones but being in the middle of the ring in front of a live crowd is a different beast. More breaking up teases . STOP IT . Challenging the Wyatt family. Mark out or something. Meh. I'm just not that high on the Wyatt's. Bray surprised the shit out of me at the RR no doubt... but I still don't think he's gonna give those kind of performances on a weekly basis or anything. He was in the ring with BRYAN after all. As far as Rowan and Harper are concerned, I've yet to give a flying fuck about either. So this match doesn't have THAT kind of appeal to me like a lot of other people, but hey, this is THE SHIELD and I'll still take it. Especially on PPV. They almost ALWAYS deliver. However I gots a feeling they will break up at the end of the match, Wyatt's will win and THE SHIELD will go on to face each other at WM (and if they DO have a triple threat, I hope to fucking Jebus that it's better than their FCW one :lmao. Should be because they've all improved... well Ambrose probably hasn't). So if that does happen I'm all for ROMAN REIGNS winning the US title and going on a fucking mid-card rampage for the next year. Have him be a fighting champion, as in, ACTUALLY FUCKING DEFEND THE BELT. On a regular basis. Would that be difficult?

R-Truth on Commentary. Fandango and... Woods having a match. SD went from a super high to a super low.

PTP? RybAxel? :lmao show just officially hit ROCK BOTTOM.

PTP break up? Titus turns on Young? :lmao TITUS IS HOMOPHOBIC~!

RUSEV~! And... some blond. Who is pretending to be a mix of Ivan Drago's wife and trainer from Rocky IV apparently. WHATEVER HE HITS, HE DESTROYS.

CHRISTIAN!!! CHRISTIAN IS BACK!!! :mark:. And his first match back? Vs SWAGGER? Oh my I'm in heaven. This should make up for the ROCK BOTTOM that SD just went to. :lmao Swagger doesn't even get a TV entrance. Then again he didn't even get a WM entrance that time he wrestled for the WORLD TITLE. :lmao Cole wants to know why Zeb slapped Swagger on Raw... so JBL puts his headset down, leaves the table and invites Zeb over to commentate :lmao. HOLY SHIT first bump of the fucking match is Christian being PRESS SLAMMED over the turnbuckle to the FLOOR :mark:. Swagger saluting while standing on Christian's chest was :lmao in the most awesome way. Swagger is MAULING the mid-section of Christian :mark:. This brings back fond memories of ECW 2009 . Not THE fondest memories, as that would require some arm work... but fuck I'll take it anyway! GUTWRENCH POWERBOMB~! KICK OUT~! :mark:. Looks like they're building the Raw stuff with Swagger and him losing focus and shit. Sweeet flapjack countered into the Ankle Lock. Swagger trying to do a KURT ANGLE by jumping up on the ropes for a belly to belly, but Christian counters, lands his "frog" splash and wins. CHRISTIAN WINS. CHRISTIAN IN THE CHAMBER :mark:. Motherfucking YES. Chamber got TALENT coming out the arse. Shame we've got Orton in there too instead of someone like LESNAR. Fun match. How long has Christian been out of action? Because it didn't seem like he'd missed a day. ***.

THE MOST DANGEROUS CHRISTIAN THAT ANYONE HAS EVER SEEN~! 

Kofi? Urgh. SD took a nose dive again. Skip skip skippity skip.

Cody Vs Road Dogg? Yeah I'll watch . I like the Outlaws still. Not pleased that they are the tag champs, but I'm enjoying seeing them back and facing new guys. And old. Hi Goldust . I'm excited for the cage match on Raw too. Cody has a bad arm. Apparently. When did this happen? Road Dogg targets it, Cody does a nice job selling it and screaming in pain. DISASTER KICK TO GUNN ON THE APRON. DISASTER KICK TO ROAD DOGG ON THE RING. CODY WINS. Fun match. Nothing remotely special but I don't regret watching it lol.

MAIN EVENT TIME. THE SHIELD VS BRYAN, SHEAMUS AND MYSTERIO :mark:. Sheamus and Reigns starting this thing? Fuck yes. I'd pay to see them in a singles match slugging it out :mark:. OW OW OW OW OH OH OW OH OW OH OH OW OW OW OH OW. Those are noises that Ambrose makes... while in control :lmao. Sheamus is on FIRE early on. Like Christian it's like he ain't been gone at all. "HALF TIME ADJUSTMENTS FOOL!" - Roman Reigns to sign guy as he berates them for taking a break on the outside :lmao. DANIEL BRYAN~! No need to edit chants into this match as you can clearly SEE people chanting for him . Makes a chance for SD. MYSTERIO~! Mysterio FIP? :mark:. Oh man that attempted tag from Rey was awesome. Reigns was dragging him over to the SHIELD corner, started playing to the crowd so Rey tried to fucking RUN FOR IT because Reigns was off guard and was SO DAMN CLOSE to getting the tag. Heartbreaking . Hot tag to Bryan :mark: Reigns coming in from the other side :mark:. Crowd on their feet :mark:. HOT FINISHING STRETCH TIME~! Oh man oh man oh man at that Ambrose/Sheamus spot on the outside :mark:. SPEAR~! Shield pick up the win. This was tremendous as always from THE SHIELD. Thought the middle portion was better than the Raw match for sure. ***3/4 for this.

Super SD. Best in a LONG time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> SD this week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sounds excellent, didn't read your write ups on the matches just the listing and now I'm most definitely staying in to watch it tonight.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna DL SD NOW, sounds :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I heard ziggler/cesaro was stellar will tune in tonite


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spoiler: Cesaro vs ziggler



:mark: that was some awesome shit right there, ***1/2 for it


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm taking a break from watching Community (~!) just to watch SD, entirely based on Cal's review. This best be good. :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might actually watch an episode of SD for the first time in years.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Best TLC match since 2009?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell no.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield one by far.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Shield vs Ryback/Team Hell No by a country mile


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

[spoiler="Smackdown]
Thought Cesaro/Ziggler was pretty bleh tbh. It wasn't bad at all but I wouldn't call it good or anything Just kinda' there.

Christian vs. Swagger was great, IMO. Christian has his routine down to a tee and it's fun no matter how many times you've seen it, like Bryan or Punk'esque in that sense. Swagger was on point also, I really liked the pop-up-catch-ankle lock thing Swagger did. Also wish Swagger would get a few W's with the gutwrench, as soon as he adopted the ankle lock they just kind of forgot it. I think every wrestler needs atleast two established moves to get the win to avoid being one dimensional and predictable. THE MOST DANGEROUS CHRISTIAN EVER :lol So happy to have him back, still one of the BITW. He took a disgustingly dirty spill to the outside early in the match, god bless him.

I really enjoyed The Shield six man, was kept fairly short but was sweet as hell, I preferred it over the Raw match in all honesty. Not much to say. Anything I say about this match is just beating a dead horse - Reigns has a great arsenal of moves, Rollins is a fucking lunatic with his bumps and Bryan's schtick (like Christian's) is unbelievably fun.

Good SD, even if I didn't like Cesaro/Ziggles as much as others. Also, Zeb's sign in the Cesaro match is (IMO) his best yet.[/spoiler]


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I might be in the minority, but I think the Shield/Hell No Ryback TLC match is the best TLC match ever, even over TLC 3 and TLC 1. I don't know I just thought that match had everything, and was a non stop roller coaster ride all the way to the finish. TLC 1-3 were all great obviously and I love them too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think I'd probably have TLC 4 > 1, 2 and 3 but that may be because 4 was the first one I ever saw  But I agree with you, CJ, TLC 2012 is the best of the whole lot.

Edit: i think it's definitely safe to say TLC 4 gets slept on far too much.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont really like TLC as a gimmick, tbh the 2012 is the only one Ive watched more than once so I guess I'd agree

INB4 Cal's top TLC list in a spoiler


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

John Cena vs Randy Orton is probably my favorite TLC by a good bit













:ti


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't have put it in a spoiler, list ain't that big .

Plus, too lazy to look up my list to C&P it . All I know is TLC 3 is #1, and the Shield one is #2, and TLC 2 and 4 are nowhere near them.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I need to rank all the TLC matches myself and make a concrete ranking of all of them

Perhaps I'll do that today

EDIT: Tomorrow


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No was nuts. A different TLC match because it was by pinfall, but damn it was great. I remember giving it a ****1/2 or ****3/4 rating when I first watched it. I'll probably go back at watch it sometime soon and see how it stands now.

Watched Smackdown... the main event is better than the Raw six man tag, imo. The two qualifying matches were good too, but the second one would have benefited from a few more minutes, imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright my torrent has about an hour left to go for the TLC pack and since I own the ladder set + the Punk set I can get at least a few matches done and should have my list done by tonight.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

RatedR10 said:


> The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No was nuts. A different TLC match because it was by pinfall, but damn it was great. I remember giving it a ****1/2 or ****3/4 rating when I first watched it. I'll probably go back at watch it sometime soon and see how it stands now.
> 
> Watched Smackdown... the main event is better than the Raw six man tag, imo. The two qualifying matches were good too, *but the second one would have benefited from a few more minutes, imo*.





Spoiler: smackdown



I respectfully disagree 

As much as I would love to see Swagger and Christian given infinite amounts of time, I feel what they produced was great and unless there was a greater story they were going to tell (which there wasn't) then the match was fine and infact may have benefited from being shorter. Christian returned and showed the crowd why he's so popular through his signature moves as well as his bumping and selling, whereas the little offense Swagger got in was enough and impactful enough him not to look weak. Everything Swagger did was huge (the throw over the top rope, the gutwrench, the pop up ankle lock etc. so he looked good in defeat, and Christian looked even better in victory, which is all the match needed to accomplish, and it did so in an entertaining way.

WWE, if you're reading this, don't misinterpret this as a reason not to give these two another match with 15+ minutes, you should still totally do that  I'm just saying.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

FLUX said:


> Spoiler: smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Smackdown



Oh I'm not denying that it was a good match, but it would have benefited from even two more minutes, imo. I watched it on Youtube and I think I counted about 7 minutes for the match. They could have easily filled 10 mins, imo. It was still a really good match and Christian looks like he hasn't lost a step.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not gonna be at home tonight so I'm downloading SmackDown. It's taking for fucking ever.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Watched the first EC match, great one. THe only one I actually watched live I think, but I nearly forgot every spot. RVD looked great in the beginning and was a fan-favourite so I was kinda surprised he went out first, Booker T and Kane seemed like filler (can't remember the feuds at that time). Jericho, HHH and HBK were gold (but holy shit, that HBK attire was awful), especially Jericho; imo, he stole the show with both his constant taunting and his in-ring performance.

Summerslam 2003 EC match next.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought Kane was great in that first chamber match too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'll probably end up watching all the EC matches at some point before the PPV next month.

Or maybe I'll just watch the ones I haven't seen (which is actually a lot of them)...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown was really good. Oh, and don't listen to Cal. Xavier Woods vs. Fandango was fun. No lolligagging or lulling. Just straight action. Xavier Woods is going to be one of those guys that years from now, you guys will go back to watch some of his matches and enjoy some of the things he does. Guy gets how to play an underdog babyface.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Smackdown was really good. Oh, and don't listen to Cal. Xavier Woods vs. Fandango was fun. No lolligagging or lulling. Just straight action. Xavier Woods is going to be one of those guys that years from now, you guys will go back to watch some of his matches and enjoy some of the things he does. Guy gets how to play an underdog babyface.



I just don't "get" Xavier Woods. I don't think he actually understands how to wrestle. He's like Langston in that regard, they seem like they are just doing moves with no rhyme or reason. Langston needs to go to Henry School for a while and Woods could be a Christian understudy. They just seem like they are still trying to be entertainers instead of wrestlers.


To be honest, I think Titus O'Neil shits all over Xavier Woods as a performer. I'd rather see Titus get a singles push than Woods.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think in this recent edition of Smackdown, his comeback felt much more natural than it usually does. His gig is that he's a little sparkplug, and the way to play off that style is to get in that one fiery comeback that makes the audience believe that you can pull off the upset. I thought it worked out pretty well against Fandango this time, but I do agree that some of his other matches are just very empty.

Jericho/Batista from the 5/19/08 edition of RAW is pretty damn good. Jericho teasing Michaels' feign injury :mark:. Yeah, Jericho can definitely have really good matches with subpar workers.

Has Christian ever main evented a PPV that wasn't a Rumble or MITB match?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Have I mentioned my hate for Langston? Dude is fucking terrible

On TLC V ATM: Ric Flair vs Edge :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought Usos/Langston vs. 3MB on Main Event this week was actually pretty good :jericho3

2006 Edge :lenny


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think in this recent edition of Smackdown, his comeback felt much more natural than it usually does. His gig is that he's a little sparkplug, and the way to play off that style is to get in that one fiery comeback that makes the audience believe that you can pull off the upset. I thought it worked out pretty well against Fandango this time, but I do agree that some of his other matches are just very empty.
> 
> Jericho/Batista from the 5/19/08 edition of RAW is pretty damn good. Jericho teasing Michaels' feign injury :mark:. Yeah, Jericho can definitely have really good matches with subpar workers.
> 
> Has Christian ever main evented a PPV that wasn't a Rumble or MITB match?




I don't believe the Cena/Jericho/Christian match main evented Vengeance 2005, that would have been the Hell in a Cell match. He didn't main event OTL 2011 either, that would have been Cena/Johnny Ace. So no, I don't believe so.


Just watched Angle/Benoit from Unforgiven 2002. I really, really dug it. Angle was kept mostly in check by Benoit, and I just loved the feeling of legitimacy there was to this contest. I think I give it somewhere in the ***3/4-**** range. Weird seeing Benoit get the cheating victory, I always prefer him as the face, then again I prefer Angle as a face as well.


Next up: Steamboat/Regal from Fall Brawl. Thanks again Zep. I remember thinking this was one of the best matches in WCW history the last time I saw it, interested to see if it holds up


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

How was the Kofi/Ziggler/Swagger laddder match at TLC 2010?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Do you want to know who I've been watching for the past hour and who I've just decided is really, really, REALLY good?

Prince Lord Albert Tensai The A Hip Hop Train Hippo. Aka. Tensai. 

He needs so much more loving.

Just thought I'd say that.

Anybody have a match of his they wanna throw at me? Or just wanna' discuss him in general, what're your thoughts on him etc? I just watched both matches with Sheamus (again :mark, with Kane, one with Brock and the No Mercy match with Benoit. All are 110% :mark: I wouldn't be against a Tensai run as IC champ tbh, have him just be a dominant beefy that destroys people, eventually for someone to take him down.

Ps: his matches with Kane are must see. MUST. SEE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you want more Lord Trainbert, go watch his match with Yuji Nagata. Or go watch the Big Show/A Train tag matches from 2003. I remember there was one where Big Show decided to leave the match to do commentary, and then A-Train just beat the crap out of the other tag team.

Gonna go watch some WCW as well. Anyone remember anything about BatB 1994?

I didn't like Kofi/Ziggler/Swagger. Pretty dull.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Undertaker vs Edge ONS is the next TLC match, not looking forward to this, remember it being long and dull

after that its Punk/Hardy, then......DX vs Jerishow :allen1


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Spoiler: Smackdown



*Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro:*

_Good little match here. The pace of the match starts off fast with Cesaro's dropkick on Ziggler right off the bat followed up with Cesaro and Ziggler doing a sequence of many different pinning combinations testing each other out that was fun. Cesaro dominates most of the match with his power and also works on Ziggler with a few submission holds. Ziggler makes a little comeback with some flashy moves and counters such as the tilt a whirl into the sleeper hold from Ziggler that I liked, and Ziggler countering Cesaro's uppercut attempt into a sick DDT. Finish was a bit flat with Ziggler missing his finisher, and Cesaro simply getting him into the big swing and then just following that up with the neutralizer for the win. Fun match between these two, but I know they're capable of better if it was given more time and they didn't book Ziggler like a jobber :side:._ *****

*Christian vs Jack Swagger:* 

:mark: _Christian's back. Swagger gets a jobber entrance. :lmao Swagger opens the match with aggressiveness after they recapped Zeb slapping Swagger on RAW and trying to fire him up. Swagger's dominates the first few minutes using his size and power over Christian, including Swagger pressing slamming Christian to the outside which I can't help but think isn't the best spot to do on a guy that's just come back from injury. :side: Swagger hits his gutwrench powerbomb on Christian, Christian kicks out, who doesn't these days. Swagger's frustrations grow and he begins to lose focus which prompts Zeb to come away from commentary to shout at Swagger. Christian takes advantage of Swagger's frustrations with some short comebacks, Christian attempts the killswitch, Swagger counters, there's a nice lift up into a patriot lock spot from Swagger, and Christian gets the win with a frog splash which was a nice change of pace, always great seeing the frog splash_. :mark: ***3/4*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Do you want to know who I've been watching for the past hour and who I've just decided is really, really, REALLY good?
> 
> Prince Lord Albert Tensai The A Hip Hop Train Hippo. Aka. Tensai.
> 
> ...




He's a guy that I've always enjoyed in the matches I've seen (vs Kane, vs Benoit, vs Brock, plus a few tags) but never really made the effort to go find and watch matches from him. Always thought he was more than capable, and was sad how quickly he got saddled with the comedy gimmick in his recent run.

How many of you guys are with me, that all out comedy gimmicks like Santino, Brodus Clay/Tons of Funk, Fandango, etc should be done away with entirely? A great wrestler can have comedy in his gimmick without resorting to making his entire routine a joke. Steve Austin was fucking hilarious, but he never once lost his legitimacy. Mankind nearly became too much of a comic, but right when he got to the point he felt he wasn't being taken seriously, he switched it up back to Cactus Jack and the rest is history. Not to mention, the writing for these comedy gimmicks is 9/10 NOT FUNNY AT ALL. I can't think of a show with writers as BAD at comedy (intentional comedy that is, they are spectacular at unintentional comedy) as the WWE has. Okay rant over, but seriously I just fucking hate all out comedy gimmicks.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SD just started for me, ziggler/cesaro next :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't really GET the idea behind wrestlers being given full on comedy gimmicks, or just shit gimmicks in general (like Fandango dancing). Those kind of gimmicks aren't going to main event a PPV. They aren't going to draw any money. So why bother? Ok, some of them sell merch to the kiddies, but more than the top tier main eventers who sell merch to EVERYONE?

If you aren't giving someone a gimmick that you expect to main event some day, then don't fucking bother because it's pointless.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ziggles/cesaro wass short and sweet, fun stuff, Good lord was that a horridly placed Commerical, it went like 5 mins too, missed a good portion of the match

Looking forward to the other 2 matches tonite too

Summer :lenny Oh lawd


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> I don't really GET the idea behind wrestlers being given full on comedy gimmicks, or just shit gimmicks in general (like Fandango dancing). Those kind of gimmicks aren't going to main event a PPV. They aren't going to draw any money. So why bother? Ok, some of them sell merch to the kiddies, but more than the top tier main eventers who sell merch to EVERYONE?
> 
> If you aren't giving someone a gimmick that you expect to main event some day, then don't fucking bother because it's pointless.




That's pretty much exactly how I feel. WWE should never have a preconceived notion of where they think a wrestlers gimmick should fall on the card. They shouldn't be saying "Ok we have Johnny Curtis coming in, lets give him a ball room dancing gimmick, that'll be great for the under card/opening matches!". Every single guy they bring in, they should allow him to establish a CREDIBLE, LEGITIMATE, character that they see money in. There is no money in the Fandango gimmick, there is no money in Tons of Funk, Santino, any of that crap. It's just so the kids can have a laugh. News flash WWE: if kids were interested in getting some laughs, they'd watch a Pixar movie, not your stupid show with awful writing. Kids are watching your show because of the WRESTLING, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm 26, so obviously not a kid anymore, but I still VIVIDLY remember when I tuned in to Raw every week, it absolutely, positively, 100000000% wasn't to get some laughs. It was to watch guys kick ass in between the ropes, it was to be freaked out by the Undertaker, and then later, it was to see what Stone Cold was gonna do to Vince McMahon this week, maybe see some nice tits if Sable or Sunny were on. I truly think Vince McMahon has completely lost his mind with a lot of the stuff in his current product. Yes there are still some great matches, but there is just more and more SHIT that we have to put up with just to get to the occasional good stuff, Like the Danielson/Wyatt match at Rumble. We as the fans sat through 2 hours and 30 minutes of an absolute SHIT pay per view just to see 20 minutes of good wrestling. That's completely unacceptable. The Rumble wasn't THAT bad, but the booking was just so atrocious and Punk was so lackluster it left me wholly underwhelmed. 

I'll never stop watching WWE because I love wrestling, but man, watching wrestling shouldn't be as frustrating as it's become.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DX/Jerishow was awful, really,really, awful

:lawler vs miz next, not sure how I feel about that


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like Fandango. :$

Obviously he's nowhere near the main event but I think he's more than capable enough to have success. I don't think the gimmick hurts his ring work or anything. I do agree that I'm generally not a big fan of the full on comedy gimmicks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of comedy gimmicks, embarrassing aspects of the current product, and things that are absolutely NOT funny, que up R Truth and Xavier Rhodes dancing to Brodus's theme in the center of the ring fpalm

Why does WWE think every black wrestler should dance?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> I like Fandango. :$
> 
> Obviously he's nowhere near the main event but I think he's more than capable enough to have success. I don't think the gimmick hurts his ring work or anything. I do agree that I'm generally not a big fan of the full on comedy gimmicks.




As Yeah1997 so eloquently put it one time, Johnny Curtis is dishwater :lmao


Nah man more power to you if you enjoy Fandango, I just think it's an absolute waste of time and can't possibly see that guy ever being a real success or even having 1 single GREAT match. His best match BY FAR to this point was WM 29 vs Jericho, and I would struggle to give that more than **3/4. He's just clueless, like a lot of the new guys that come in. He seems like hes just doing moves and nothing he does means anything.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Diesel (c) w/Shawn Michaels vs Lex Luger for the Intercontinental Championship - Monday Night Raw (7/1/94) 6/10*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> :lawler vs miz next, not sure how I feel about that


Outside of the Shield TLC, I'd say that's the best TLC match since... 2006. Unless I'm forgetting one.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow really, thought it would be a stinker 

is it better than the Punk/Ryback one?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Outside of the Shield TLC, I'd say that's the best TLC match since... 2006. Unless I'm forgetting one.




Titus just 100% proved my point. He shits all over Xavier Woods. As soon as Titus gets serious and stops trying to be funny, he just entertained me more than he has in his entire career combined to this point laying that beat down on Darren Young.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep. Only just, but yeah.

EDIT: Cactus, I think you might have quoted the wrong person there .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Speaking of comedy gimmicks, embarrassing aspects of the current product, and things that are absolutely NOT funny, que up R Truth and Xavier Rhodes dancing to Brodus's theme in the center of the ring fpalm
> 
> Why does WWE think every black wrestler should dance?


WWE seems to think every black wrestler dances and is automatically compatible to team with any other black superstar. ~__~



Cactus Jack said:


> As Yeah1997 so eloquently put it one time, Johnny Curtis is dishwater :lmao
> 
> 
> Nah man more power to you if you enjoy Fandango, I just think it's an absolute waste of time and can't possibly see that guy ever being a real success or even having 1 single GREAT match. His best match BY FAR to this point was WM 29 vs Jericho, and I would struggle to give that more than **3/4. He's just clueless, like a lot of the new guys that come in. He seems like hes just doing moves and nothing he does means anything.


I'd agree that he's not putting on very high quality matches but I usually enjoy his stuff for what it is. Most of his stuff isn't generally long but I liked his match against Punk from the middle of last year. I can completely understand why one wouldn't like him though. He's not exactly a ring psychologist.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Outside of the Shield TLC, I'd say that's the best TLC match since... 2006. Unless I'm forgetting one.


Punk/Hardy?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Punk/Hardy?!


Nope.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I think Fandango is decent as a midcarder. Good gimmick portrayal, and decent mic work for a midcard guy. His "weird" gimmick in NXT was entertaining because he was so good at portraying it, and probably modified it a bit, to add some elements of his interpretation of the character. 

I also like they guy's selling. Cross Rhodes sell at MITB was neat, GTS sell on SD(maybe it was Raw) was certainly unique.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Nope.


What do you have them at?

I've got Punk/Hardy at ****1/2, Miz/Lawler at ***3/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for Punk/Jeff, ***3/4 for Lawler/Miz.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

At least we're on the same page with one of them. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> At least we're on the same page with one of them. :side:



I have Punk/Jeff TLC at ****, I thought it was great. I think their cage match on Smackdown was LOADS better though, that was one of the best cage matches WWE has ever had. I think THAT cage math>>>>>>trips/lesnar cage match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Johnny Curtis' NXT run was so good. That creeper gimmick fit him perfectly. His match with Punk is also Lenny smiley worthy.

Hasn't wrestling always had comedy gimmicks? The Attitude Era kinda masked it with raunchy gimmicks like Godfather and Mark Henry, but it's in the same vein of characters that have no potential of being main eventers and are only there for novelty purposes. I don't mind comedy gimmicks so long as there are only a few of them around. PTP and 3MB are perfect comedy gimmick wrestlers. Santino can stay because he actually does make a lot of money for the company and he does his job pretty well. The other folks can go away or change for the better.

Thanks for reminding me btw. Rewatched Brock/HHH cage match, and that shit DROPPED. Went from a high-end ****1/2* to barely even acceptable. The only good thing about that match was something that in principle was the worst thing about the match. WWE cage matches in general just suck. But Punk/Hardy is :mark:. All of their matches except for one Smackdown match are :mark:.


----------



## The_Workout_Buddy (Jan 11, 2014)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I think Fandango is decent as a midcarder. Good gimmick portrayal, and decent mic work for a midcard guy. His "weird" gimmick in NXT was entertaining because he was so good at portraying it, and probably modified it a bit, to add some elements of his interpretation of the character.
> 
> I also like they guy's selling. Cross Rhodes sell at MITB was neat, GTS sell on SD(maybe it was Raw) was certainly unique.


Too bad WWE preferred go on the FANDANGOING bullsh*t way and not protraying him as a ladies man, it would so different to the rest of the roster, and it would be an easy way (and we know WWE loves the easy way) to start feuds: backstage segment of Fandango tryin to seduce diva backstage, irritating the on air boyfriend which can lead to a series of matches...but no is better having him sayin Fan...Dan...Go accompanied by the pathy of the crowd.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Christian/Swagger was good. (Y)

Elimation Chamber looks great so far. Shield vs. Wyatts and The Elimation Chamber match alone could make this event really exciting to watch.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Outlandish gimmicks CAN be unbelievably fun when done right and aren't completely one dimensional. Fandango is a one dimensional character in the sense that all he does is dance and say his name differently. I thought that they should have played more on his reaction when Jericho danced with Summer, could have brought out a selfish and somewhat possessive and controlling side of him that would have added more depth to the character. Could have done the same w/ Brodus had they wanted to keep the Funkasaurus gimmick on him but turn him heel at the same time. Another example would be to really play and toy with 3MB's delusion: Ask the question to the audience - Do they really think they're a band or do they know they're pissing about? Build on that. Just stuff like that, you know?


It's not gimmicks that annoy me, no matter how outrageous, it's just that the WWE's gimmicks are outrageously bland, flat and simply BLAH. That's the problem.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I definitely preferred the Punk/Hardy cage match. Got that at ****3/4. Arguably my favorite SD match of all time.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> How many of you guys are with me, that all out comedy gimmicks like Santino, Brodus Clay/Tons of Funk, Fandango, etc should be done away with entirely? A great wrestler can have comedy in his gimmick without resorting to making his entire routine a joke. Steve Austin was fucking hilarious, but he never once lost his legitimacy. Mankind nearly became too much of a comic, but right when he got to the point he felt he wasn't being taken seriously, he switched it up back to Cactus Jack and the rest is history. Not to mention, the writing for these comedy gimmicks is 9/10 NOT FUNNY AT ALL. I can't think of a show with writers as BAD at comedy (intentional comedy that is, they are spectacular at unintentional comedy) as the WWE has. Okay rant over, but seriously I just fucking hate all out comedy gimmicks.


Couldn't disagree more. 

I feel a good wrestling show needs at least one comedy wrestler. For one, it mixes things up. Serious match after serious match can make a show drag, wear out the crowd, and take emphasis away from where it should be - the ME and title pictures. Guys and matches can start "bleeding" together, making the show redundant, and comedy/light-hearted matches go hand-in-hand with women's wrestling: It breaks up a show. There have been some excellent comedy performers (Ebessan/Kikutaro, Florida Brothers, Larry Sweeney, Colt Cabana, Human Tornado, Joey Ryan, Delirious, hell even Heath Slater/3MB, Fandango, and Santino aren't terrible). Smile more in wrestling, it's all a work so why not take it everywhere it can go? I enjoy the hell out of a good comedy match/spot - love Eddie's finish with selling a phantom chair shot, or Dragon Gate's invisible wall spot, or Ebessan's slow motion wrestling, Human Tornado's Dance-Off, Joey Ryan baby oiling himself up after the bell rings...Larry Sweeney is a twenty-something time ICW-ICWA Texarcana Television Champ don'tcha know? I always wait for the day a "comedy" wrestler gets serious in a feud - Cabana/Homicide come to mind - I think it's an excellent jump off, and a guaranteed sympathetic figure when a "true" heel beats them down.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Johnny Curtis' NXT run was so good. That creeper gimmick fit him perfectly. His match with Punk is also Lenny smiley worthy.
> 
> Hasn't wrestling always had comedy gimmicks? The Attitude Era kinda masked it with raunchy gimmicks like Godfather and Mark Henry, but it's in the same vein of characters that have no potential of being main eventers and are only there for novelty purposes. I don't mind comedy gimmicks so long as there are only a few of them around. PTP and 3MB are perfect comedy gimmick wrestlers. Santino can stay because he actually does make a lot of money for the company and he does his job pretty well. The other folks can go away or change for the better.


Oh I'm not saying comedy gimmicks are a recent invention, WWE has pretty much had them as long as I've been watching wrestling. Doesn't stop me from absolutely despising them though. I hated Mark Henry's comedy gimmick (even though a lot of people seem to like it, including Henry himself) and the Godfather wasn't strictly a comedy gimmick, it was more just a gimmick that was so over the top that it was a bit funny. 

Santino "makes a lot of money for the WWE"? Since when? Other than selling some of those green cobra gloves, how does he earn them a lot of money? He hasn't drawn one single dime on a pay per view, there is no way he adds to the viewership when he appears, he was in the bottom 10 among a bunch of Diva's for "Ratings Black Holes" on a list I saw recently for wrestlers that cause the biggest drop in viewership. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just curious how you know Santino earns a bunch of money for the WWE. Italian viewership perhaps? I dunno.


My point is basically WWE should be able to have characters that can occasionally be funny rather than having guys whose sole purpose is to get a few cheap laughs. It sorta insults the viewers intelligence in my mind. The Mr. McMahon character can be downright hysterical, but he can also be the most evil, nuclear heat getting, son of bitch on the planet. Atleast back in the late 90's early 00's he was.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:mark: at how awesome this was on Smackdown!



Spoiler: smackdown


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Tatanka vs The Undertaker (12/14/94) 3/10*

Nothing really interesting. Two things to note though: 1) Heel Tatanka works like face Tatanka barring the "spirit running through him" stuff and 2) Taker is one of the best agile big guys ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Couldn't disagree more.
> 
> I feel a good wrestling show needs at least one comedy wrestler. For one, it mixes things up. Serious match after serious match can make a show drag, wear out the crowd, and take emphasis away from where it should be - the ME and title pictures. Guys and matches can star "bleeding" together, and comedy/light-hearted matches go hand-in-hand with women's wrestling: It breaks up a show. There have been some excellent comedy performers (Ebessan/Kikutaro, Florida Brothers, Larry Sweeney, Colt Cabana, Human Tornado, Joey Ryan, Delirious, hell even Heath Slater/3MB, Fandango, and Santino aren't terrible). Smile more in wrestling, it's all a work so why not take it everywhere it can go? I enjoy the hell out of a good comedy match/spot - love Eddie's finish with selling a phantom chair shot, or Dragon Gate's invisible wall spot, or Ebessan's slow motion wrestling, Human Tornado's Dance-Off, Joey Ryan baby oiling himself up after the bell rings...Larry Sweeney is a twenty-something time ICW-ICWA Texarcan Television Champ don'tcha know? I always wait for the day a "comedy" wrestler gets serious in a feud - Cabana/Homicide come to mind - and I think it's an excellent jump off, and a guaranteed sympathetic figure when a "true" heel beats them down.




I'm not sure if you are aware, but what I'm saying is that there can still be comedy in wrestling, like Edde's lie cheat steal gimmick, without dedicating a wrestlers entire gimmick on being funny. Also, I, and a lot of fans I know, don't need a "break" in the show. I'm sorry, but I'd much rather have a show like Summerslam 2002 where it's just non stop bad ass wrestling with a few backstage segments, over any modern show where they decide the fans need "breaks" so they go throw out a Diva's match or a few comedy squashes featuring 3MB. Not to mention, if Raw was 2 hours like it should be instead of 3, we absolutely wouldn't need breaks at all. Wrestling survived for DECADES all over the country without Diva's matches, 3MB, or Santino Marella.


Final thoughts: Comedy should only be a small facets of certain characters gimmicks, the wrestlers who are capable of pulling it off well like Foley, Austin, Rocky, McMahon, etc. A wrestlers entire gimmick should not be about comedy, atleast in my mind. Comedy should absolutely be a part of wrestling, but only used maybe once in a 2 hour show, and they should make the comedy more unintentional seeming, rather than writing the show so it's like a bright neon sign is flashing "LOOK, WE ARE FUNNY! LOOK HOW WE ENTERTAIN YOU! THE WWE UNIVERSE JUST WANTS TO BE ENTERTINED"


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brye, have you recently watched Punk/Hardy from The Bash? Super underrated match of theirs. Punk teasing his heel turn throughout the match was the kind of stuff that he must have learned from the one and only Eddie Guerrero. ******. I also have both the TLC and Cage match between the two at *****1/2*. Easily Hardy's best singles program and it's somewhere in Punk's top five. Definitely #2 in WWE.

Merchandise sales was basically what I meant by Santino being a moneymaker. Of course, his gimmick makes no sense in a main event (or even a title scene) context, but kids like him and he is over. I personally won't go out of my way to cheer for him, but as long as there is just one Santino instead of ten of them, I'm fine. Gimmicks are a good thing as we can all agree on, but they don't all have to be so dumb. For whatever reason, NXT gets this, but the main roster doesn't. Everyone in NXT is unique in their own way, and that's why it's such a good show.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh my at the awesomeness of that Lawler/Miz match

Also, if CM Punk should ever make amends with the WWE, have him be a commentater plz, that was better than :selfie ever did at Commentating


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

JustJoel said:


> Couldn't disagree more.
> 
> I feel a good wrestling show needs at least one comedy wrestler. For one, it mixes things up. Serious match after serious match can make a show drag, wear out the crowd, and take emphasis away from where it should be - the ME and title pictures. Guys and matches can start "bleeding" together, making the show redundant, and comedy/light-hearted matches go hand-in-hand with women's wrestling: It breaks up a show. There have been some excellent comedy performers (Ebessan/Kikutaro, Florida Brothers, *Larry Sweeney,* Colt Cabana, Human Tornado, Joey Ryan, Delirious, hell even Heath Slater/3MB, Fandango, and Santino aren't terrible). Smile more in wrestling, it's all a work so why not take it everywhere it can go? I enjoy the hell out of a good comedy match/spot - love Eddie's finish with selling a phantom chair shot, or Dragon Gate's invisible wall spot, or Ebessan's slow motion wrestling, Human Tornado's Dance-Off, Joey Ryan baby oiling himself up after the bell rings...*Larry Sweeney* is a twenty-something time ICW-ICWA Texarcana Television Champ don'tcha know? I always wait for the day a "comedy" wrestler gets serious in a feud - Cabana/Homicide come to mind - I think it's an excellent jump off, and a guaranteed sympathetic figure when a "true" heel beats them down.


LARRY SWEENEY MENTION.

One of the best to never make it. When I was watching 2007/2008 ROH last year, I simply fell in love with him. AINT NO DOUBT ABOUT IT BABY

enaldo enaldo


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Brye, have you recently watched Punk/Hardy from The Bash? Super underrated match of theirs. Punk teasing his heel turn throughout the match was the kind of stuff that he must have learned from the one and only Eddie Guerrero. ******. I also have both the TLC and Cage match between the two at *****1/2*. Easily Hardy's best singles program and it's somewhere in Punk's top five. Definitely #2 in WWE.
> 
> Merchandise sales was basically what I meant by Santino being a moneymaker. Of course, his gimmick makes no sense in a main event (or even a title scene) context, but kids like him and he is over. I personally won't go out of my way to cheer for him, but as long as there is just one Santino instead of ten of them, I'm fine. Gimmicks are a good thing as we can all agree on, but they don't all have to be so dumb. For whatever reason, NXT gets this, but the main roster doesn't. Everyone in NXT is unique in their own way, and that's why it's such a good show.


I actually haven't seen The Bash one in ages. I rented that DVD a few years ago and I think that's the last time. I don't actually remember much of it so I'll have to look it up. (Y)

I'd agree, Hardy's two best singles programs are Punk and then Trips, imo. Love me some Hardy/Trips from No Mercy '08.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*Papa Shango vs Tatanka - WWF Prime Time (11/30/92) 4/10*


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

FLUX said:


> LARRY SWEENEY MENTION.
> 
> One of the best to never make it. When I was watching 2007/2008 ROH last year, I simply fell in love with him. AINT NO DOUBT ABOUT IT BABY
> 
> enaldo enaldo


100% agree. Really sad story, but he was so goddamn funny and just natural doing his thing. Best Indy comedy promo:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm confident that if Bryan/HHH ever happens, the closest match that it will resemble will be Hardy/HHH. Oh man, those two never had a bad match. Even their Chamber interaction rules.

I haven't seen it in a long time, but I also remember liking Punk/Hardy at NoC 09 a lot. I loved how both Hardy and Punk sold that GTS kickout better than most main eventers do when there's a finisher kickout. Oftentimes, the WWE style lends itself to really predictable finisher kickouts that have no drama or emotion. The kickouts just seem to be "there" because they have to be there in order for the match to be a main event. The biggest offender of this would have to be Cena. Sometimes it works so well because there's an inherent drama that comes with Cena's booking. Other times, such as against Triple H, Orton, and Rock, the finisher kickouts make me roll my eyes rather than suspend my disbelief.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I love making lists, heres something to spark discussion. I posted an early version of this a while ago but since have changed most of it around and added a bunch.



Spoiler: Top WWE Matches/Wrestlers



*Top 100 Matches in WWE History*




Let me first give a disclaimer. I'm am 100% certain I have left out numerous important matches. I was just bored today and did this from memory. I have seen all these matches multiple times, but when it comes to the order of the last 50 or so matches, it gets a bit shaky. Also, it should go without saying, this is just my opinion, I'm only posting this because I'm bored and thought this might create some interesting discussions. And I will probably disagree with this list in 3 days anyhow. Last thing: I tried to avoid throwing tags in there as much as possible, because I just have such a hard time comparing singles matches against tag matches. I'm a huge fan of tags, so I'd probably overrate all the tag matches anyhow.




*5-Star Matches*




1a.Bret Hart vs Steve Austin WrestleMania 13

1b. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Hell in a Cell Badd Blood 1997

3. Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle Summerslam 2001

4. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Judgement Day 2004

5. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart WrestleMania 10

6. Shawn Michaels vs Mankind Mindgames 1996

7. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker WrestleMania 25

8. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit vs HHH WrestleMania 20

9. Cactus Jack vs HHH Street Fight Royal Rumble 2000

10. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 6/23/05

11. Cactus Jack vs Randy Orton Backlash 2004

12. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar Summerslam 2013

13. CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011

14. Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect King of the Ring 1993

15. Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho Ladder Match Royal Rumble 2001

16. Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect Summerslam 1991

17. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WrestleMania 26

18. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat WrestleMania 3 (tie)

18. Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior WrestleMania 7 (tie)




* 4-3/4 Star Matches *




19. Chris Benoit vs Finlay Judgement Day 2006


20. Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker Hell in a Cell No Mercy 2002

21. Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin Smackdown 2001

22. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena Extreme Rules 2012

23. Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar No Way Out 2004

24. Dude Love vs Steve Austin Over the Edge 1998

25. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin Survivor Series 1996

26. Batista vs HHH Hell in a Cell Vengeance 2005

27. The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle No Way Out 2006

28. The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle Smackdown 2003

29. Ric Flair vs HHH Steel Cage Taboo Tuesday

30. Canadian Stampede 10 Man Tag

31. Owen Hart vs Davey Boy European Championship Raw

32. The Shield vs Hell No/Ryback TLC 2012

33. Chris Benoit vs Brock Lesnar Smackdown 2003

34. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs Two Man Power Trip Raw

35. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan Over the Limit 2012

36. Chris Jericho vs HHH Last Man Standing Fully Loaded 2000

37. 1992 Royal Rumble Match

38. 1-2-3 Kid/Razor Ramon vs Diesel/Shawn Michaels Action Zone 1994




* 4-1/2 Star Matches *




39. Chris Benoit vs William Regal No Mercy 2006


40. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle Summerslam 2003

41. Chris Benoit vs William Regal Velocity

42. Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero Vengeance 2003

43. Bret Hart vs Diesel Survivor Series 1995

44. Ric Flair vs Randy Savage WrestleMania 8

45. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon Ladder Match Summerslam 1995

46. Shawn Michaels vs Vader Summerslam 1996

47. Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle IronMan Match Smackdown 2003

48. Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio Summerslam 2002

49. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Bull Rope Match Great American Bash 2004

50. Chris Benoit vs The Rock Fully Loaded 2000

51. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle WrestleMania 21

52. Steve Austin vs The Rock WrestleMania 17

53. CM Punk vs The Undertaker WrestleMania 29

54. Eddie Guerrero/Tajiri vs Team Angle Smackdown 2003

55. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus 2/3 Falls Match Extreme Rules 2012

56. Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow King of the Ring 1993

57. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Judgement Day 2005

58. Eddie Guerrero vs Rob Van Dam Ladder Match Raw 

59. Mankind vs The Undertaker Hell in a Cell King of the Ring 1998

60. Cactus Jack vs HHH Hell in a Cell No Way Out 2000

61. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs HHH Backlash 2004

62. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena Summerslam 2013

63. Finlay vs Matt Hardy Smackdown

64. Sheamus vs John Morrison Ladder Match TLC 2010

65. 2005 Elimination Chamber Match New Years Revolution

66. Vader vs Bret vs Steve Austin vs The Undertaker IYH: Final Four


67. Chris Jericho vs CM Punk WrestleMania 28




* 4-1/4 Star Matches *




68. Mankind vs The Undertaker Revenge of the Taker

69. Eddie Guerrero vs Edge No DQ Match Smackdown 2002

70. Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels Vengeance 2005

71. Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton Smackdown January 2006 (mat wrestling classic)

72. Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero Armageddon 2002

73. Christian vs William Regal Breaking Point 2009

74. Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik Boot Camp Match MSG

75. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs HHH Backlash 2004

76. Ric Flair vs Mr. Perfect Loser Leaves Town Raw 1993

77. Finlay vs Kane Belfast Brawl Smackdown 2007

78. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho WrestleMania 19

79. Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin Raw 2001

80. Mankind vs The Undertaker King of the Ring 1996

81. Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs Rey Mysterio/Edge No Mercy 2002

82. Finlay vs Matt Hardy Smackdown 6/22/07

83. The Rock vs Mankind I Quit Match Royal Rumble 1999

84. The Undertaker vs HHH WrestleMania 17

85. Christian vs Jack Swagger ECW 2/24/09

86. Steve Austin vs The Rock WrestleMania 19

87. Pat Patterson vs Sgt. Slaughter Alley Fight MSG

88. CM Punk vs John Cena Raw 2013

89. Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Jarrett IYH

90. Brock Lesnar vs Big Show Stretcher Match Survivor Series

91. Matt Hardy vs Edge Cage Match Unforgiven 2005

92. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy Cage Match Smackdown 2009

93. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Bull Rope Match Great American Bash 2004

94. Edge/Christian vs Benoit/Jericho vs The Hardys vs The Dudley's TLC: III Smackdown 2001

95. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio The Bash 2009

96. The Rock vs HHH Backlash 2000

97. Bob Backlund vs Ken Patera Texas Death Match

98. Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid Raw 1994

99. The Hardys vs The Dudley's vs Edge/Christian TLC Summerslam 2000

100. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit Royal Rumble 2003








*The Greatest Wrestlers in U.S. History *




**Obviously there is a huge bias towards modern wrestlers simply because I have not seen enough 60's, 70's, and 80's stuff to be a good judge. It goes without saying this is all personal preference/opinion




1. Ric Flair

2. Eddie Guerrero

3. Chris Benoit

4. Terry Funk

5. William/Steven Regal

6. Dave "Fit" Finlay

7. Rey Mysterio

8. Bret Hart

9. The Undertaker

10. Jerry Lawler

11. Steve Austin

12. Ricky Steamboat

13. Mick Foley

14. Shawn Michaels

15. Barry Windham

16. Big Van Vader

17. Randy Savage

18. Brock Lesnar

19. Rick Rude

20. Bobby Eaton

21. Dustin Rhodes

22. Bryan Danielson (could be about 15 spots higher by the time he retires)

23. Kurt Angle

24. Arn Anderson

25. Christian
​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SHAMELESS PLUG

Just uploaded to my dailymotion account:

*Chris Benoit and Bobby Eaton vs. The Nasty Boys - WCW Worldwide 8/21/93*


Edit: Cactus I didn't mean to completely ignore your list btw, didn't even see you post it. I'll read and give you my thoughts when I've done


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> SHAMELESS PLUG
> 
> Just uploaded to my dailymotion account:
> 
> *Chris Benoit and Bobby Eaton vs. The Nasty Boys - WCW Worldwide 8/21/93*





Benoit AND Eaton vs The Nasties :mark: :mark: :mark:

I know what I'm watching as soon as Smackdown is over.....


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Been watching IYH Revenge of the Taker for the past couple of hours. Undercard is mediocre at best but Taker/Mankind was good stuff. Foley is a complete lunatic for that table bump. He went head-first through that shit!

Wont expect Austin/Bret to be as good as WM13 but I hope it's at least 4 star quality.

Cactus: Great lists there. I really don't have anything to add.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome list, Cactus! What Smackdown is that Matt Hardy/Finlay from?!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Awesome list, Cactus! What Smackdown is that Matt Hardy/Finlay from?!




I couldn't find the date 

I think FLUX is the one that showed it to me, it's the one where Finlay works Hardy's leg and Hardy sells it to perfection. Now that you mentioned it, I think it needs to be several spots higher, atleast above the Belfast Brawl vs Kane. Fuck, I knew this would happen as soon as I posted it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

6/22/07 for that Finlay/Hardy match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=1

ositivity


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> 6/22/07 for that Finlay/Hardy match
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=1
> 
> ositivity


 

FLUX with the save again, now that Smackdown is over, on to Benoit and Eaton. I can't even believe I just said those two names in the same sentence, I really didn't think it was possible. Forgot Benoit did spot appearances for WCW in the early 90s


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I couldn't find the date
> 
> I think FLUX is the one that showed it to me, it's the one where Finlay works Hardy's leg and Hardy sells it to perfection. Now that you mentioned it, I think it needs to be several spots higher, atleast above the Belfast Brawl vs Kane. Fuck, I knew this would happen as soon as I posted it.





FLUX said:


> 6/22/07 for that Finlay/Hardy match
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport?search_algo=1
> 
> ositivity



(Y)(Y)(Y)

Bout to give this a watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Ranking all TLC matches

15: Kane vs Rey vs Edge vs ADR: **

14: John Cena vs Randy Orton: **1/2

13: DX vs Jerishow: **1/2

12: Edge vs Undertaker: ***1/4

11: CM Punk vs The Miz vs ADR: ***1/2

10: TLC IV: ***3/4

9: Ryback vs CM Punk: ***3/4

8: Jerry Lawler vs The Miz: ***3/4

7: Edge vs John Cena: ***3/4

6: TLC II: ****

5: CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy: ****

4: Edge vs Ric Flair: ****1/4

3: TLC I: ****1/2

2: Shield vs Team Hell no and Ryback: ****3/4 

1: TLC III: ****3/4 ​*
thoughts?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys watch THIS 

http://www.wwe.com/videos/tom-phill...his-match-wwe-app-exclusive-jan-31-2-26179139 

BITW !!!


Good SD liked the main event had to leave the most of the show, need to see the 2nd qualifer


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Put JeriShow/DX last, switch #2 and #3, switch the places for Punk/Hardy and TLC IV with each other and maybe move up Orton/Cena a couple of spots and I pretty much agree.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm not sure if you are aware, but what I'm saying is that there can still be comedy in wrestling, like Edde's lie cheat steal gimmick, without dedicating a wrestlers entire gimmick on being funny. Also, I, and a lot of fans I know, don't need a "break" in the show. I'm sorry, but I'd much rather have a show like Summerslam 2002 where it's just non stop bad ass wrestling with a few backstage segments, over any modern show where they decide the fans need "breaks" so they go throw out a Diva's match or a few comedy squashes featuring 3MB. Not to mention, if Raw was 2 hours like it should be instead of 3, we absolutely wouldn't need breaks at all. * Wrestling survived for DECADES all over the country without Diva's matches, 3MB, or Santino Marella.
> *
> 
> Final thoughts: Comedy should only be a small facets of certain characters gimmicks, the wrestlers who are capable of pulling it off well like Foley, Austin, Rocky, McMahon, etc. A wrestlers entire gimmick should not be about comedy, atleast in my mind. Comedy should absolutely be a part of wrestling, but only used maybe once in a 2 hour show, and they should make the comedy more unintentional seeming, rather than writing the show so it's like a bright neon sign is flashing "LOOK, WE ARE FUNNY! LOOK HOW WE ENTERTAIN YOU! THE WWE UNIVERSE JUST WANTS TO BE ENTERTINED"


Mae Young and Gorgeous George, meet Cactus Jack. 

Comedic characters and women's wrestling go back a long time. If a guy is good at what he does, that's it for me. It can be a serious character that has a comedic run, great. If it starts comedic, and then gets serious, great. If a character stays roughly the same as either serious or comedic, great. Just be good at being you out there. 

And you can slice it anyway you want, but I, and a lot of fans, need a break in a three hour show. Something needs to be lighthearted. It usually takes me two sittings to finish Puro or Indy shows unless it's unusually compelling or otherwise short in length. Lucha shows always have at least one comedy/light match - the idea of audiences needing breaks in the action goes back a long time, and didn't originate in pro-wrestling. Jericho, Rock, Eddie - that's special talent to blend it all into one dynamic character. That all rosters aren't full of them is no surprise, but somebody needs to fill that role. I would rather a show mix it up, and deliver everything that pro-wrestling can be, than isolate it down to just one component. Be goofy and surreal - it fits right in.

Tell me you wouldn't mark for either Santino getting into a serious, bitter feud with a heel who took it "too far" and smashed Marella after he thought Santino was humiliating/clowning him. And you're watching anyway It's for kids, and builds the greater imagination of the product. Heath "wafting the funk" and being loud as shit in the ring, all while jobbin' it out is funny as hell for me. I'm not a fan of all comedy guys, but don't dismiss them out of hand either. It's a different take, which for me is kind of what I prize most in wrestling: Innovation. I couldn't watch a whole comedy show (even Chikara has it's serious moments) but it needs to be there. 

And there's plenty of unintentional comedy: A googling of Curtis Axel promo will have you laughing for the night.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great list, Cactus. I'm sure some more matches will be added in once you go through some more Bob Backlund. Best wrestler the WWE had until Savage came in, and even then, you can make an argument for Backlund to be better than him.

Everyone watch that video that Skins posted of Ziggler. I don't understand this criticism of Ziggler not being able to talk when I can name more good promos from him than from a lot of other guys that became main eventers.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Guys watch THIS
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/tom-phill...his-match-wwe-app-exclusive-jan-31-2-26179139
> 
> ...


That was a damn good promo by Ziggler. Well done. I don't know if this is going to be the start of something big for Ziggler or he's going to stay in the same place, but that was a good promo with a lot of conviction.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Mae Young and Gorgeous George, meet Cactus Jack.
> 
> Comedic characters and women's wrestling go back a long time. If a guy is good at what he does, that's it for me. It can be a serious character that has a comedic run, great. If it starts comedic, and then gets serious, great. If a character stays roughly the same as either serious or comedic, great. Just be good at being you out there.
> 
> ...




I guess it all boils down to my first point, Raw shouldn't be fucking 3 hours long. Its insane. It KILLED WCW having 3 hour Nitro's and 2 Hour Thunder's every single week, it overexposes talent and burns out the viewers. It's just a horrible idea all around.

I'm with you on the Mae Young/Moolah deal, women wrestlers aren't a bad thing at all. I just don't like most of the DIVAS, because a lot of them don't even bother to learn how to work. They are there for eye candy, which is fine I guess because I loved Sable and Sunny back in the day. I wish they would have female valet's more, there are never gonna find another Sherri Martel, but that doesn't mean they should stop looking.

Gorgeous George is a bad comp though, he was actually a hell of a wrestler and while a lot of stuff he did we view as funny today, back then it got him HEAT. If you watch the Memphis Heat documentary, listen to the guys talk about George. All the old heads respected the hell out of him for both his ability in the ring AND his ability to draw money.

You keep going back to comedy being necessary in wrestling, and I can't tell you enough, I AGREE WITH YOU. It's just the all out, 100% comedy gimmick guys like Santino I can't stand. I feel like it would be better for WWE to call on a different guy every week that's not in the main event scene to do the spot of comedy for the show. Having it just be a small facet of your character is great, having your entire character be based around people laughing at you is not. 

We've beaten this topic into the ground hahaha, good points though, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Santino.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Guys watch THIS
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/tom-phill...his-match-wwe-app-exclusive-jan-31-2-26179139
> 
> ...





Jesus Christ. Anyone that thinks Dolph can't cut a promo, I mean damn, how does eating crow taste? That was fucking awesome, I'm a fan of Dolph but even if I wasn't, that gave me chills. Excellent.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION



Top 50 WWE Matches of CM Punk

*******
1. CM Punk vs John Cena – MITB ’11
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – OTL ‘12
*****3/4*
3. CM Punk vs John Cena – Raw 2/25/13
4. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar – Summerslam ‘13
*****1/2*
5. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – SD 8/25/09
6. CM Punk vs Undertaker – WM 29
7. CM Punk vs Mark Henry – Raw 4/2/12
8. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – WM 28
9. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – Summerslam ‘09
*****1/4*
10. CM Punk vs John Morrison – ECW 9/4/07
11. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Capitol Punishment ‘11
12. CM Punk vs John Cena – Night Of Champions ‘12
13. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 6/26/09
14. CM Punk vs Mark Henry – SD 4/15/2012
15. CM Punk vs Undertaker – SD 9/7/10
******
16. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 7/17/09
17. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – SD 2/12/10
18. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – Night Of Champions ‘09
19. CM Punk vs John Cena – Summerslam ‘11
20. CM Punk vs William Regal – Raw 1/19/09
21. CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler – Royal Rumble ‘12
22. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio – Survivor Series ‘11
23. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Over The Limit ‘10
24. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – SD 2/21/12
25. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Extreme Rules ‘12
26. CM Punk vs Sheamus – Main Event 10/3/12
****3/4*
27. CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield – Raw 11/11/13
28. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 7/27/09
29. CM Punk vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy – Raw 6/15/09
30. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – The Bash ‘09
****1/2*
31. CM Punk vs John Morrison – ECW 8/7/07
32. CM Punk vs Edge – SD 4/25/08
33. CM Punk vs Seth Rollins – Raw 12/30/13
34. CM Punk vs Umaga – Judgment Day ‘09
35. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Extreme Rules ‘10
36. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – MITB ‘12
37. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio – Raw 6/20/11
38. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Raw 12/22/08
39. CM Punk vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio – TLC ‘11
40. CM Punk vs Ryback – Raw 1/7/13
41. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Raw 2/4/13
42. CM Punk vs Randy Orton – Extreme Rules ‘11
43. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 8/14/09
44. CM Punk vs Triple H – Night Of Champions ‘11
45. CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs Erick Rowan & Luke Harper – Survivor Series ‘13
46. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane – No Way Out ‘12
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Armageddon ‘08
48. CM Punk vs Matt Hardy- SD 9/1/09
49. CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose – Raw 12/9/13
50. CM Punk vs John Cena - Raw 8/22/11



Feel like I might be missing something but I'm too excited that I actually finished the list. 

Watched Punk/Hardy from Bash right before I did this, funnyfaces. (Y)

Conclusions I drew: Punk vs Morrison, Mysterio, Cena & Hardy is almost a guaranteed success.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

CJ I checked the list (Y) cant say anything


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I"m gonna read through that list now, did you get a chance to watch Finlay/Hardy Smackdown yet?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brye said:


> Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I miss Punk already  What a guy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I"m gonna read through that list now, did you get a chance to watch Finlay/Hardy Smackdown yet?


Watching it now. (Y) Was about halfway through the list when I got the link.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Revenge of the Taker:

Undertaker vs Mankind - ★★★★
Stone Cold vs Bret Hart - ★★★¾



funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone watch that video that Skins posted of Ziggler. I don't understand this criticism of Ziggler not being able to talk when I can name more good promos from him than from a lot of other guys that became main eventers.


Thought it was pretty subpar. He should never yell again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Watching it now. (Y) Was about halfway through the list when I got the link.




Excellent.

I'm probably alone in this, but I genuinely think Punk's best match, the one I get the most enjoyment out of watching, was Summerslam vs Lesnar. I've probably watched it 5-6 times since it aired, and it just keeps getting better, and better, and better. Seriously, every single watch I've come away liking it even more than I did before. His most notable and important match will always be Vs Cena at MITB 2011, no denying that. But strictly going by what happened between bells, Summerslam 2013 takes the cake for me. 

Cool to see you give OTL vs Bryan the full 5. I gave it 4 3/4, but obviously I think the world of it as well. Imagine if they main evented mania for the WWE title with that match? Holy crap. 

Great list though man, I need to go back and check out the Smackdown matches vs Morrison. The only match I've seen between Punk and Morisson is the final match they had in ECW when Punk took the title off him. That was fucking awesome too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I too approve of Finlay/Hardy. When he's in shape, I love watching Matt wrestle. He doesn't do much wrong, if anything at all. Although he does that dumb "hold the head" sell, he is still really good at making his opponent look great without bumping like a maniac (not that there's anything wrong with that). He's an underrated high flyer, but unlike his brother, I think he is even better when he isn't flying around because his offense is a lot more convincing when he throws fists and hits a surprise side effect or twist of fate. Yeah, Matt Hardy when he cares about wrestling rules.

Great lists, Smitty and Brye. I was always considering making a top 100 for Punk that includes his indie stuff, but I talk about him too much. I was going to do one for Foley last year, but someone else had dibs on that project and never actually did it. I still have a few projects to do (1997, 1999-2001, CotC, maybe PWG), but it's always tempting to deviate from projects and just watch fun stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Excellent.
> 
> I'm probably alone in this, but I genuinely think Punk's best match, the one I get the most enjoyment out of watching, was Summerslam vs Lesnar. I've probably watched it 5-6 times since it aired, and it just keeps getting better, and better, and better. Seriously, every single watch I've come away liking it even more than I did before. His most notable and important match will always be Vs Cena at MITB 2011, no denying that. But strictly going by what happened between bells, Summerslam 2013 takes the cake for me.
> 
> ...


I can definitely understand Punk/Lesnar being his best match. It's a whole different beast from Punk/Cena. Both literally epic match. 

I love the OTL match. Still disappoints me that Cena/Big Johnny main evented over it but man it still delivered. I loved the way they ran that match and the one from SD that ended in a draw. Made Punk and Bryan both look like they were on just about the same level. I'm curious if a face/face Punk/Bryan encounter could have trumped the OTL one.

The Morrison matches are so much fun, imo. They offer some different stuff every time and the one I first one after Punk wins the title in '09 had an ending that sort of foreshadowed the heel turn.

------------------------------

Finlay vs Matt Hardy - 6/22/07

Wow. This had high expectations but it pretty much lived up to them. Hardy sells the leg like a fucking champ, the entire time. I never give that guy the credit he deserves, mainly because he's so easy to pick on. Finlay is so good at working over a body part and he doesn't stop destroying Hardy's leg. Loved the nice quick ending too. Hardy played it off very believably. - ****

Can't believe I never saw this.


Think my next project is going to be top 30 of Morrison.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I too approve of Finlay/Hardy. When he's in shape, I love watching Matt wrestle. He doesn't do much wrong, if anything at all. Although he does that dumb "hold the head" sell, he is still really good at making his opponent look great without bumping like a maniac (not that there's anything wrong with that). He's an underrated high flyer, but unlike his brother, I think he is even better when he isn't flying around because his offense is a lot more convincing when he throws fists and hits a surprise side effect or twist of fate. Yeah, Matt Hardy when he cares about wrestling rules.
> 
> Great lists, Smitty and Brye. I was always considering making a top 100 for Punk that includes his indie stuff, but I talk about him too much. I was going to do one for Foley last year, but someone else had dibs on that project and never actually did it. I still have a few projects to do (1997, 1999-2001, CotC, maybe PWG), *but it's always tempting to deviate from projects and just watch fun stuff*.


Projects are overrated

:hb

WATCH WHATEVER YOU WANT WHENEVER YOU WANT. Hence why I'm going to watch some Evan Bourne and return with the biggest gem ever. I'll be back.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I too approve of Finlay/Hardy. When he's in shape, I love watching Matt wrestle. He doesn't do much wrong, if anything at all.


What's dumb about holding the head? It's way better than a wrestler laying down like he was knocked out after hit and staring blankly into the ceiling. He actually gives a shit about making the fall look like it hurt. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by holding the head. WHADDYA MEAN I HAVE TO KNOW (and tell me that unpopular opinion if that was also you).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> What's dumb about holding the head? *It's way better than a wrestler laying down like he was knocked out after hit and staring blankly into the ceiling.* He actually gives a shit about making the fall look like it hurt. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by holding the head. WHADDYA MEAN I HAVE TO KNOW (and tell me that unpopular opinion if that was also you).


lol, I love that. Specially when someone like Cena takes a DDT and the camera closes in and he's supposed to be knocked out but he's just staring upwards. Something funny about that.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I guess it all boils down to my first point, Raw shouldn't be fucking 3 hours long. Its insane. It KILLED WCW having 3 hour Nitro's and 2 Hour Thunder's every single week, it overexposes talent and burns out the viewers. It's just a horrible idea all around.


A lot killed WCW, as sad as it is. 



> I'm with you on the Mae Young/Moolah deal, women wrestlers aren't a bad thing at all. I just don't like most of the DIVAS, because a lot of them don't even bother to learn how to work. They are there for eye candy, which is fine I guess because I loved Sable and Sunny back in the day. I wish they would have female valet's more, there are never gonna find another Sherri Martel, but that doesn't mean they should stop looking.


I hold out hope I guess, and usually the best talents get over anyway - Lita, Mickie, Trish, AJ, and Summer Rae & Naomi will make it too, I think. WWE doesn't really care, so it's up to the individual, and I take extra excitement when a "Diva" has done some homework on a new move/sequence/spot. Even more when it's a well-sold technical, "wrasslin" sequence :flair



> Gorgeous George is a bad comp though, he was actually a hell of a wrestler and while a lot of stuff he did we view as funny today, back then it got him HEAT. If you watch the Memphis Heat documentary, listen to the guys talk about George. All the old heads respected the hell out of him for both his ability in the ring AND his ability to draw money.


Yes, but he was seen as casuals - at the time - as not being a "serious" competitor in the ring. Tastes were different, but George is much more light than say Thesz or Londos before. He caught heat with other wrestlers as well about his antics, thinking it was "demeaning" their legitimacy. It's not a cop at all. 



> You keep going back to comedy being necessary in wrestling, and I can't tell you enough, I AGREE WITH YOU. It's just the all out, 100% comedy gimmick guys like Santino I can't stand. I feel like it would be better for WWE to call on a different guy every week that's not in the main event scene to do the spot of comedy for the show. Having it just be a small facet of your character is great, having your entire character be based around people laughing at you is not.


Different tastes - I'm laughing with Santino and Heath - They "get" the roles they are in, and design matches to fit, right down to the corny, eyeroll elements. 



> We've beaten this topic into the ground hahaha, good points though, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Santino.


Sure, I enjoy the topic and I guess I need to spread the rep more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> lol, I love that. Specially when someone like Cena takes a DDT and the camera closes in and he's supposed to be knocked out but he's just staring upwards. Something funny about that.


Oh it's obviously good on a move like a DDT or piledriver because those are typically 'knockout' moves, but there are wrestlers that do it on, like, everything. To me it just looks ridiculous on a dropkick or clothesline (depending on the wrestle executing it - whether it's their finisher or w/e) when they get up immediately after that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm so proud of you guys for having a calm and polite debate

This must be the only thread where that can happen


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Will rep whoever can find me a longer segment of this.

or this


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's not necessarily dumb in principle. It's just that Matt Hardy looked so funny when he would hold the back of his head and walk around with that bulging belly. He would do it in every single match at one point and it kinda lost meaning and turned more into unintentional comedy.

EVAN BOURNE! Dude made Kofi Kingston look awesome. I don't think I dislike a single match of his.

That unpopular opinion thing took a life of its own. I think my opinion has actually changed for it, but for now I'll just give you an unpopular opinion that you can entertain.

Arn Anderson > Ric Flair. Or at least equal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Arn more than Flair and think he's just as good a promo, at least. If your big unpopular opinion isn't much worse than that then it's not as crazy as you think it might be. Doubt anyone will get annoyed by it either. We can be civilized here now TELL ME YA FUCKIN ASSHOLE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh I actually think Arn LAPS Flair on the mic. Flair is great on the mic, but I hate it when he has an extended promo because he starts babbling and babbling while slurring his words and not adding anything. It's cute the first few times you see it, but there are so many times where I feel like Flair is trying to be funny, but it just comes off as annoying. It's also the aspect of Flair's mic work that :HHH2 was influenced most by. Contrast that with Arn Anderson who was direct with his speech and never wasted a word or a motion. The mark of a great mic worker is that he can make you believe in what he's saying, and Arn was in that Foley company of doing that. Arn represented wrestling tradition better than anyone ever has. If he wanted to, I'm sure he would make a stellar world champion as either a face or a heel, but he seemed to have the Kane syndrome where he cared less about being "the man" and more about being the greatest team player he can possibly be.

I also just watched a tag match at BatB 94 where Arn Anderson did one of the funniest turns ever. :lmao poor Goldy.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well I am never quite sure what the scope of this thread is so I always tread lightly (Walter White TM) but I see that Randy Orton has been a recent subject in here and if I may offer my two cents for why Randy Orton (or Boreton depending on view) is viewed so negatively focusing in the ring right now. Obviously there is always some resentment torwards those with Orton's accolades because then you ignite the talent vs accolade ratio debate which doesn't end well for many wrestlers, especially one with the skyrocket success of Orton from a young age and this is certainly a part of it. Mainly though, at least from an in ring standpoint, I think that Orton harms himself by in my view trying to turn the Viper persona into the greatest in ring masterpiece ever. Feel free to disagree with my following opinion, but please respect it as I would anyone elses with reason and forgive me if I am redundant for I don't want to trace back to see what everyone has said on Orton given his countless threads and their big page numbers. 

On the surface this is a loudacrous statement I mean anyone should try to perform to the highest level they can achieve, and this seems like it could only further the product but let me explain. You look at the prime criticism of Orton, him being boring. Well, I think his intentions are good. He works the viper character, and a viper being a type of snake, snakes hide in the grass, strike than slither back picking their spots, which is what Orton attempts to establish for his Viper character, hence the Viper striking with a "RKO out of nowhere" which is like the deadly bite out of the grass in an analogy. However, Orton remaining patient and wearing the opponent down for that deadly strike combined with the psychological element of Orton's apex predator persona enjoying the punishment of his opponent consequently results in Orton often cutting a pretty excruciating pace even for purists like many of us on the board. Another facet that Orton really tries to nail everytime is the facial expressions. now there isn't anything wrong with facial expressions at all seeing how they supplement and aid the story being told in the ring and narrate out what unfolds through the match, hence why elite workers like HBK, Bret Hart and Taker are commented on by commentators for the "face tells the story" remarks that makes for good storytelling. The thing with Orton though is that I notice that it seems like Orton has a facial expression after every single move and motion and especially headlock. Now in Orton's defense, his psychological aspects of his character lends itself to more expressions since he is one who is billed as "enjoying the process and suffering of his opponents", but I think Orton oversatures the expressions from time to time. Because Orton sets himself such parameters of this character, it is no accident that Orton while in this persona will either put on a fantastic contest when the little details click like vs Bryan or a pending disaster. 

I think Orton just works too much into the parameters of his character. Not all, but the majority of Orton's best work was during his legend killer days and during his SD mainstay upper mid run. During this time, Orton could take his matches anywhere during the Legend Killer era and during that SD upper mid run, Orton carried the Viper gimmick, but a lesser extent of it which freed hm to wrestle as just Randy Orton again. Feel free to disagree, but I think barebones Orton is a great in ring performer. The guy has always been able to "sell snow to an eskimo" especially against big threats, Tbone suplex aside Orton is ususally pretty spot on on his move execution, the guy is one of very few in the business who doesn't use the superplex as an empty staple for the fans to see and pop for and actually executes the move for its' real purpose as a momentum turner in the favor of the executioner, I enjoy Orton's general classic heel tactics and when not in the parameters Orton cuts a good pace. If Orton went back to the basics, which is his bread and butter in my view, he wouldn't be so hounded on by so many people. This applies to promo cutting too, Orton in his boring "predator" delivery drags out his enunciation and draws it out which doesn't lead to either good delivery or content for that matter, but when Orton gets fired up, puts some passion into that character and just channels an volume turned up Orton, gold ensues. There is a stark contrast in Orton's deliveries and it is the difference between one night Orton putting people to sleep and getting boring chants and another night being one of the most entertaining wrestlers in the company.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh I actually think Arn LAPS Flair on the mic. Flair is great on the mic, but I hate it when he has an extended promo because he starts babbling and babbling while slurring his words and not adding anything. It's cute the first few times you see it, but there are so many times where I feel like Flair is trying to be funny, but it just comes off as annoying. It's also the aspect of Flair's mic work that :HHH2 was influenced most by. Contrast that with Arn Anderson who was direct with his speech and never wasted a word or a motion. The mark of a great mic worker is that he can make you believe in what he's saying, and Arn was in that Foley company of doing that. Arn represented wrestling tradition better than anyone ever has. If he wanted to, I'm sure he would make a stellar world champion as either a face or a heel, but he seemed to have the Kane syndrome where he cared less about being "the man" and more about being the greatest team player he can possibly be.
> 
> I also just watched a tag match at BatB 94 where Arn Anderson did one of the funniest turns ever. :lmao poor Goldy.



I have a hard time putting Arn above Flair and into any top 10 list merely because he doesn't have a catalog of universally praised GREAT matches. He absolutely was great and one of the best in his prime, he was simply never given that run on top with great singles opponents to establish his legacy. It's not his fault at all, merely a matter of circumstance. If Arn switched places with Flair on the card and took his place in all his matches and feuds, I'd love to see if he wasn't universally praised as a GOAt candidate as well.

Where I completely agree was with you statement about promos. I've always felt Arn deserves to be I'm any discussion about best mic guys in the business. I'm obviously biased, but I really feel Foley is probably the best promo man in the history of wrestling. He just made you FEEL everything he said, he was able to make things more serious and add that feeling of legitimacy when he spoke. All the characteristics that make Foley the best can also apply to Arn. He never stuttered, he never rambled, he never said anything that didn't 100% make sense. He was able to cut to the meat of the matter in a way very few have ever could. As great and witty as guys like Piper, Flair, and the Rock were, I'll always prefer the guys like Foley, Arn, Jake Roberts, etc who spoke coherently about the matter at hand and were able to draw the viewer in and make them believe that THIS SHIT IS REAL, LIVES AND CAREERS ARE STAKE. Putting over the feud and why they were fighting was also key.


Also, it deserves mentioning, you can make a real case that Arn and Tully are one of the best tag teams ever, and most of that had to do with Arn. Tully was great in his own way but every match I've ever had the pleasure of seeing with those two, it was Arn doing all the subtle things and working the major parts to put the match over the top.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tully Blanchard had one of my favorite heel performances ever against Ricky Steamboat at Starrcade 84. Since we've been talking about Steamboat recently, I suggest everyone to watch that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Arn has a good amount of great matches. May not be universally praised but I guess people just aren't watching them. Definitely doesn't outdo Flair, but he has a ton of great matches and fills in the gaps with good ones. Even in matches like WarGames he's always one of the best guys in there. 

I don't agree that Flair drones on in promos, but maybe it's just memory because I can't think of a long Flair promo to begin with. Have you seen 1996 Flair promos? He was feuding with Randy Savage and was actually five times more nutty and ballistic than Savage on the mic which is saying something. I think would agree that Arn is more realistic on promos, though I still think Flair was mostly believable even up to his wrinkled saggy old man boobs times. Especially those 'down to Earth' babyface promos where he's sitting at home or something and getting interviewed. I think one of Flair's, um, 'problems' for lack of a better word, was that as a heel he was almost too cool for his own good. And he still get mad heat which is incredible.

Tully is amazing and one of the 20 best combinations of ring/mic work I can think of. Probably. I don't really know what that list would actually look like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arn + War Games leads me to think of 1994 where he cuts "THAT" promo. If you don't know; shame. Think I pitched it a few months ago in the old thread.

There's my slight contribution.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now's your chance to make contributions regarding Tully Blanchard. And it can't be the Magnum TA match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Arn has a good amount of great matches. May not be universally praised but I guess people just aren't watching them. Definitely doesn't outdo Flair, but he has a ton of great matches and fills in the gaps with good ones. Even in matches like WarGames he's always one of the best guys in there.
> 
> I don't agree that Flair drones on in promos, but maybe it's just memory because I can't think of a long Flair promo to begin with. Have you seen 1996 Flair promos? He was feuding with Randy Savage and was actually five times more nutty and ballistic than Savage on the mic which is saying something. I think would agree that Arn is more realistic on promos, though I still think Flair was mostly believable even up to his wrinkled saggy old man boobs times. Especially those 'down to Earth' babyface promos where he's sitting at home or something and getting interviewed. I think one of Flair's, um, 'problems' for lack of a better word, was that as a heel he was almost too cool for his own good. And he still get mad heat which is incredible.
> 
> Tully is amazing and one of the 20 best combinations of ring/mic work I can think of. Probably. I don't really know what that list would actually look like.


Well I think that list could take many forms especially considering while there is alot of concrete, universal considerations for ring work, promos are ususally made by the delivery, which much like comedic delivery is purely subjective so it is hard to get a concrete top 20 mic/ring work list going seeing the differing opinions particularly in the promo department. 
Another thing to, by "work" do you mean ability or catalogue or a combination? 

In my opinion, in no order off the top of my head
*Flair
Jericho
Savage *(though some especially purists might find his promo delivery too "cartoonic")
*Rude
Eddie Guerrero
Terry Funk *(many are either too young to realize or overlook Funk as an elite worker but consider that Funk didn't have the luxury of working with the elite constant talent many of his considered superior in ring talents did and when he did Funk put up classics plus Funk excelled in matches that many GOAT caliber workers could not as well as doing wonders for his era in terms of hybrid brawl/hardcore/mat wrestling hybrids. I will defend Funk here)
*Gorgeous George *(in the ring revolutionized wrestling and his work and persona on the stick has great cultural significance let alone wrestling, as George was an attraction for people to buy tv sets just to see him, a Gorgeous George promo inspired Cassious Clay to change his persona and name to Muhammad Ali and Gorgeous George's total package spearheaded wrestling's first Golden Era, for that he deserves a spot here even though comparing ring work through the decades is quite difficult pre mid 80s. 
*Michaels
Austin *as a whole
*Kurt Angle* (Even though outside the ring Angle flourished more in segments which is different from promos, I think he still deserves a mention here, revered worker and still a damn fine promo cutter who in his relatively short time has a decent catalogue to back this up)
In terms of pure ability especially if we consider promos in relation to one's character, *Regal *deserves a mention here despite a somewhat weak promo catalogue since he wasn't a stickman much while competing in the ring
*HHH* given his expansive, enduring catalogue in both categories and given his mike versatility though I don't care for his delivery or those damn 03-04 monologues. 
*Stan Hansen* (very underrated talker though I could see some hating the delivery and never understood the need to pair blassie with him for a time in the US)
*CM Punk*
*Foley* (I will defend his ring work if need be)
*Curt Henning*
*Nick Bockwinkel* is a personal selection wouldn't expect anyone to agree though
*Jake Roberts*
*Razor Ramon era Hall*
*Edge*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

K. I select everything else.

That was easy.

vs Funk from Slamboree '94 is a forgotten gem.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Currently watching HHH vs Umaga cyber Sunday street fight. I think they should bring that back. I think the fans would make the right choices better than WWE can.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Another thing to, by "work" do you mean ability or catalogue or a combination?


Combination seems fair, but leaning more toward ability than catalogue. A guy have a dozen really good matches in a year but be carried through all of them (unlikely, but it can happen). Several good performances v. minimal great performances is harder, but that's not an issue unless specifics pop up (they probably will......)

top 20 off of the top of my head:

Jerry Lawler
Randy Savage
Terry Funk
Ric Flair
Bill Dundee
Arn Anderson
Steve Austin 
Eddie Guerrero
Dick Murdoch
Stan Hansen
Sgt. Slaughter
Tully Blanchard
Nick Bockwinkel
Mick Foley
Brian Pillman

Got friggin' fifteen. Really, really struggling for the rest. Cue the 'need to see more Buddy Rose' line I've been saying for months. Usually I say 'need to see more Bockwinkel' too but I feel comfortable with him there; feels like I've seen juuust enough for a list like this. Kinda weird to exclude Ted DiBiase but it's been way too long since I've seen his matches at their best. Did re-watch a couple of Duggan matches recently and he was awesome in those. I mean, I know he was an excellent wrestler but he's not a Dick Murdoch who I can point to and say 'yep - always amazing whether I go years without watching it or not'. 


I'm not terribly big on HHH's or Angle's anything any more, wouldn't have them above tons and tons others. I don't think Trip has that good a catalogue in either category and I don't really see him as a versatile mic guy. I adore Angle's talking at its best but at its worst it is the worst thing ever (I am thinking of one from 2006 SmackDown with Rey that I thought was ridiculous) and I can count the amount of Angle matches I really love on maybe one hand (d/w guys, the Marty Jannetty match is there...........haha! No I fucking mean it that match rules). Jericho I'm not big on either but I think he's clearly better than both of those two and would have less guys above him. Still I'm not positive I prefer his ring work or promos to the Rock, and the Rock isn't someone I'm considering for this. Edge I kinda hate. The Edge and Christian promos are, at their best, amazing, but I kinda hate Edge and don't really think he's all that good at anything. Punk's mic is likely better than some of the people I listed but honestly I think everybody there blows him away in the ring so it'd feel like I'm exaggerating to put him there. I can only think of one Michaels promo I cared about (it was a promo building to the ladder match at Mania X) and I have no idea if I'd still care about it. Well OK he was pretty great on the mic as a heel in 1997 but that's, like, it for me. One or two years v. twenty I don't care about isn't going in his favour. Jake Roberts feels marginal but I don't really think he's any better in the ring than Punk (most would say Punk smokes him but I wouldn't). If I can't think of any more people he'd probably be on it because I do think he's a legit contender for greatest mic worker of all time. I actually love Razor Ramon promos but he's impressed me in the ring maybe three times. I can't put a Gorgeous George there without actually watching anything (pretty sure I've seen something but it's been so long I don't remember it). Need to see more AWA Hennig because I don't like some of what he did in WWF (don't get me wrong, I LOVE some of it). Always liked his promo though. I don't know why I'm hesitating to add Rick Rude but I am. Maybe it's because other than 1992 and the Warrior match I don't LOVE any ring performance he's had. He sits next to DiBiase in the 'is automatically on there if I don't think of somebody else' category. I think Regal is actually pretty good pick but there are a lot of promos that stand out more than he does. 

Soooo I guess if pressed, Rude, DiBiase and probably eventually Hennig and Rose would be on the list and it would hit 19. This is way harder than I thought, only got 15 I'm really feeling and I'm already getting reservations for Pillman. My brain sucks sometimes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not sure why Shawn Michaels can even be considered for promos. He never had any good ones. They were just cocaine riddled shenanigans. That's about the furthest thing from good. Yet another thing I need for me to tell this guy to fuck off. Minus all the goodies w/Jannetty. Rockers ftw.

Keep Pillman. If not adding Punk, then at least keep Pillman in the mix.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded to my DM Account:

*Shawn Michaels vs Venom - Texas Wrestling Alliance 2000*

Includes Promo:

x1arx3n


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Shawn Michaels vs Randy Orton from Survivor Series 2007 is brilliant, the boy wonder strikes again orton2 not him though, this guy :hbk) to be fair though, Orton was pretty fucking excellent as the heel in the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Want more key Orton heel stuff? Check out vs Rey Mysterio from NWO '06.

Yes. I knew I'd find a way to talk about this out of the blue. Challenge complete.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, that match was actually pretty good. That might've been one of the first PPVs I watched.

Gonna watch CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler from RAW 11/21/11 'cause I haven't seen it in a while. 'Twas a great match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seeing that Batista main-eventing WM seems pretty much inevitable, I watched some of his matches that I've remembered being good or very good. Here is a short top:

5.vs Shawn Michaels- One Night Stand 2008 ***3/4
4.vs John Cena WM26 ****
3.vs John Cena SS ****1/4
2.vs Taker WM23 ****1/4
1.vs HHH Vengeance ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Dolph for the first time was the original Punk vs Rollins. It has shaky moments, yet it still manages to pull together and form a good match. You can actually watch the chemistry form as the match(es) rolls along.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upped this too: Watch it dammit!!!

*Big Van Vader vs. The Boss - WCW Spring Stampede 1994*

x1as8oi


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Wrestling Oracle, just wanted to say that was a really well-thought out post. Don't really have much to say right now, but I always enjoy reading your insight on various topics. You're one of those posters that I always stop and read.

I have to spread rep around, so I'll just post it here. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this thread. In that thread, of course.





funnyfaces1 said:


> Now's your chance to make contributions regarding Tully Blanchard. And it can't be the Magnum TA match.


Speaking of Magnum TA...how is his match against Flair in, I think, 1985? It's on the "History of WHC" DVD, I believe.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> Yeah, that match was actually pretty good. That might've been one of the first PPVs I watched.
> 
> Gonna watch CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler from RAW 11/21/11 'cause I haven't seen it in a while. 'Twas a great match.





HayleySabin said:


> Punk vs Dolph for the first time was the original Punk vs Rollins. It has shaky moments, yet it still manages to pull together and form a good match. You can actually watch the chemistry form as the match(es) rolls along.


Yeah, Punk VS Ziggler 11/21/11 was definitely a good match. 

It's kind of funny how people constantly say that Ziggler is extremely overrated in the ring, yet he seems to be far more interesting in the ring than those who are rated as being much better. 

For instance, I have found Ziggler VS Orton matches significantly more interesting than ADR VS Orton matches. Of course, ADR is very good in the ring, but for him, matches' quality seem to really depend on the opponent. He has had good to great matches with Ziggler, Mysterio, Rhodes, Christian, and RVD (may have missed some). Ziggler, however, seems to be very entertaining in the ring with most opponents he faces. He has had good to great matches with Bryan, Punk, ADR, Orton, Cesaro, Jericho, Axel, Mysterio, and Ryder(may have missed someone). Not necessarily saying he is better in the ring, but he is definitely very good in the ring, and I can't say ADR is so much better considering his matches are usually not as interesting, at least to me, as Ziggler's. 

By the way, I would really like to see Ziggler VS Cesaro given a good 20 Minutes on Raw, or hell, maybe even on PPV, with them being in some sort of a feud.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched Austin - Dude Love at Over The Edge for the first time. Excellent match. Loved how Vince would do anything to screw Austin such as changing the rules as the match went on. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader vs Traylor is too epic. People need to see it if they haven't. If they have, watch it again.

This is a match I don't mind having be brought up every so often. Fyi.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

C&P:



Spoiler: vader vs the big bubba boss angel guy



Big Van Vader vs. The Boss (Grudge Match) (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)

IT’S TIME!

IT’S TIME!

IT’S...

ME WATCHING AND REVIEWING SOME WRESTLING FOR THE WCW POLL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MONTHS TIME~!

Sadly, the Boss isn’t Bruce Springsteen, but Big Boss Man. *sigh* I’d totally pay to see Springsteen get his face caved in by Vader...

Holy motherfucking SHIT at the bump on the rampway before the match even begins!!! Vader and Boss go at it straight away, and Race grabs Boss, allowing Vader to take one hell of a run up for a Splash... only for Boss to move and Vader to legit run Race down; and it looks terrific. Race takes a bump better than 90% of the young guys today.

MOAR Vader running and jumping! This time he has Boss down in the ring, and he takes another run up from the ramp way and dives over the ropes (!!!) for a splash that way! Fucking hell. Boss gets his legs up though, and all that running and jumping were wasted. Hate when that happens...

Boss really takes the fight to Vader, and Vader does that usual amazing job of looking vulnerable despite being 6ft whatever and over 400lbs and an all round bad motherfucker who caves faces in for a living.

After getting a taste of the old “cave in faces” Vader, its Boss’ turn to take one helluva bump. I mean Christ, what the hell is wrong with these guys? They should NOT be doing these kinds of bumps!

Since I haven’t seen any wrestling outside of current WWE for the last month or so at least, starting back with Vader is just... awesome. I almost forgot how great those punches were. Almost. Not quite. It’s still great seeing them again though .

This baby is just a tremendous back and forth big man match that you HAVE to see for this poll, no question about it. You have to see it even more if you are a Vader fan... and I’m positive everyone on here is .

In the end Vader is the one able to take the most punishment and still come back, getting him the win, but not before having to resort to the Moonsault when the Vader Splash from the ropes doesn’t work.

I’m definitely reserving a spot on my list for this bad boy.

Rating: ***3/4



Big Van Vader vs. The Guardian Angel (BATB 7/17/94)

Lol, gimmick change for The Boss already...

Oh wait, there is a reason! Based on the aftermath of the match I just watched, Boss was punished by having his stick and cuffs taken away, forcing him to become someone else!

Again, this is a hard hitting back and forth big man battle, with some crazy bumps that guys this big should never be taking. None really on the level of the previous match, aside from Vader hitting a sunset flip from the ropes. Yes, Vader. Sunset flip. Ropes.

Despite some good action, this is a HUGE step below the previous match, and has a completely shitty finish where GA gets DQ’d for holding a weapon. Yeah.

Rating: **3/4



Big Van Vader vs. The Guardian Angel (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)

Huh, this is a triangle match... where 2 people start the match and the other ummm... I guess gets in the match when someone loses? Whatever. It gives us another Vader/GA match anyway, so whatever. Sting is the third man for anyone who cares.

After 2 matches with each other already, seems to me that they decide to start off a little slower here, knowing that the winner has to wrestle one more time after this, and going full force against a Vader or a GA from the get go would be stupid.

Meh, nothing that good here, another step down from previous matches. Shame. I guess with Vader having to work another match against Sting later (at least, I’m assuming this is how it works lol), they didn’t want to give too much time to this one, and both men involved didn’t want to wear themselves out, but still... could have been better than this lol.

Rating: **


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm about 10 pages late but Shield vs. Ryback/Hell No TLC is *****3/4* and one of my favourite matches ever. Pure chaos from start to finish and the start of the Shield's amazing 6 man run. I'm busy tonight but off tomorrow so I'm planning to start the 2013 PPV dvd finally. I'll be late with my 2013 list too but whatever, I want to have it done for myself if nothing else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Recall myself being high on the entire series of matches. Spring Stampede is clearly the favorite among the three. There's a reason for that. Moments in the match were plain nuts.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nice cover, wont be buying the DVD of course, but still nice

Ratings for SS 04? Might start it today


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Can't remember anything from the undercard from Summerslam but

Eddie/Kurt sucks
HHH/Eugene is unbelievably amazing
Taker/JBL doesn't get enough credit other than from Cal
Orton/Benoit gets far too much credit and the Raw rematch a hell of a lot better, but it's still a good enough match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Recall myself being high on the entire series of matches. Spring Stampede is clearly the favorite among the three. There's a reason for that. Moments in the match were plain nuts.




Flux that Benoit/Eaton Tag was brilliant. Loved it.

Looks like I should finally sack up and watch Vader/Traylor, no idea why I've been putting it off this long.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Ratings for SS 04? Might start it today


Decent show although it wouldn't have been as good without BENOIT/ORTON. That match is so :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Booker T & Eddie vs Angle on the same show is hilarious. Be sure to see those for a laugh.

Only match worth seeing is Taker vs JBL, SMITTY. Trips actually has some fun nostalgic heel antics vs Eugene, but that one didn't hold up well over time. I'm too wise in noticing all of the other faults that come w/"the game". And then there is Benoit vs Orton which is a real bummer now. Clearly not bad. Just not anything special on the overall scale.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 04 is a 2 match show. Just the major title matches. Everything else is blargh. Not even that high on HHH/Eugene. Which is surprising because a heel totally DICKING IT UP against someone, especially a retard, sounds like the greatest thing ever. Was fine, but I just don't see what's so amazingly special about it. 

Eddie/Angle might be my least favourite Eddie match after Rey @ WM. Just nothing good about it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Not looking forward to this then 

Outside of NWO/Mania/BL 2004 has a ton of 1 match shows and not a ton of good ppvs


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Is that Mark Henry in the background of the Rumble DVD? Behind Lesnar?

He was so good in this year's Rumble :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Had to sneak him on there as a way to entice fans. :vince$


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh look the RR dvd cover. I was thinking of buying the event but now I've seen the cover I'm not sure. Because the cover means something to me. If it's shit it effects my decision to buy it. Also I'm brain damaged.

So yeah. I don't get the whole "omg dvd cover reveal" stuff. Who cares, honestly? If ANYONE buys a DVD or not based on the cover then there is something wrong with their brain. Its not functioning.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

DVD's will be useless with the Network anyways 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope the Network forces Fremantle to lower their prices by like 80%. That way I can actually buy stuff again. Got 2 DVD's and 1 Bluray since they took over from SV. And there are things I WANT too. £22.99 for a fucking 2 disc Bluray. GTFO cunts.

[/weekly fremantle rant]

At the very least hopefully a bunch of retards will put their stuff on ebay/amazon etc for dirt cheap once the network comes out over here. I'll be happy to take their "redundant media" off their hands for cheap as chips. Mmmmm chips. I'm hungry.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since us non-Americans wont be getting the Network for nearly a year, I'm ready to DL everything XWT uploads from the Network. They've already readied the "WWE Network" category to start uploading.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Has anyone seen In Your House 8: Beware of Dog?

How are HBK/Bulldog , Goldust/Undertaker , and Yoko/Vader?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Since us non-Americans wont be getting the Network for nearly a year, I'm ready to DL everything XWT uploads from the Network. They've already readied the "WWE Network" category to start uploading.


Yeah i saw that yesterday :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

etrbaby said:


> Has anyone seen In Your House 8: Beware of Dog?
> 
> How are HBK/Bulldog , Goldust/Undertaker , and Yoko/Vader?



HBK/Bulldog is one of the worst matches of all time, atleast as far as main events go. DUD.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how AWESOME the Undertaker is in that NWO 2006 match with Kurt Angle? Among big men, Taker stands alone in the selling department, hell among men of any size, Taker deserves to be right near the top when it comes to selling. He was just unbelievably good in this match, the whole thing was stupendous but the last 5-7 minutes are otherworldly. Taker is a god, us mere mortals are just lucky we get to witness his brilliance. I cannot WAIT until he gets the full documentary/DVD treatment, although that'll probably mean he has retired for good so that makes me sad, too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Isn't Autin/savio really good on that show?

I haven't seen it, but I thought I read that somewhere


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In celebration of the upcoming ELIMINATIAHN CHAMBAH PPV - which looks pretty hooking, I mean Cena/Bryan/Sheamus/Christian/Cesaro (and Orton) inside a Chamber, and Shield/Wyatts - I took a look at the Chamber matches before this one, and can I just say that the Elimination Chamber is likely the 2nd most consistent gimmick match out there behind MITB (at least imo)?

Ratingz:
SVS 2002: ****1/2
SS 2003: ***
NYR 2005: ****3/4 (took over 02 at the top of Chambers)
NYR 2006: **1/2
DTD 2006: **
SD 2008: ***3/4
Raw 2008: ****1/4
SD 2009: ***1/2
Raw 2009: ****
Raw 2010: **3/4
SD 2010: ***
SD 2011: ****1/2 (just totally badass stuff, so undertalked it's not even hilarious)
Raw 2011: ***3/4
Raw 2012: ***1/4
SD 2012: ***1/2
EC 2013: ***1/2

Let's hope this year can live up to its potential.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> HBK/Bulldog is one of the worst matches of all time, atleast as far as main events go. DUD.


oh wow, I wouldn't expect that from these two, I'll c why it's so bad.



SMITTY said:


> Isn't Autin/savio really good on that show?
> 
> I haven't seen it, but I thought I read that somewhere


I had never heard of Savio before I read his name vs Austin on this card, I'll check it out as well.



ATF said:


> In celebration of the upcoming ELIMINATIAHN CHAMBAH PPV - which looks pretty hooking, I mean Cena/Bryan/Sheamus/Christian/Cesaro (and Orton) inside a Chamber, and Shield/Wyatts - I took a look at the Chamber matches before this one, and can I just say that the Elimination Chamber is likely the 2nd most consistent gimmick match out there behind MITB (at least imo)?
> 
> Ratingz:
> SVS 2002: ****1/2
> ...


Yeah Edge, Rey and Drew were awesome in that one,


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, *Drew*. Everybody was in their A-game in that Chamber match, but really, that match was all about DREW MOTHERFUCKING MCINTYRE. So much in fact that I, one of the biggest Kane fanboys in the world, was pissed off at McIntyre's elimination to the point that I wanted Kane to be slaughtered there by Rey and Edge. Btw, Kane's performance was awesome too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I wrong for thinking that Rey Mysterio is the greatest chamber participant of all-time?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The one "gripe" I have with the SD 2011 chamber, if it's the one that ends with Rey and Edge, is that they are literally just repeating the same stuff they did in 2009. It was a fun finishing stretch and all, but it was the same stuff they'd already done. I'd have to watch the whole match again but I do remember thinking it was overrated for the finishing stretch and for Drew McIntyre. Drew was KILLER no doubt... but I kinda hate that THAT is the moment 99% of people point to in order to show that Drew is good and has potential. The fact he was putting on great matches for a year and a half prior to that apparently means shit because he was AGGRESSIVE IN TEH CHAMBER.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong for thinking that Rey Mysterio is the greatest chamber participant of all-time?


He's among the best but I might give the edge to Jericho or HBK. Like him or not, HHH has also had some good performances in there (02, 05, 08, 09 were all good).

Hopefully Orton retains this year. If he wont get the Brock match, I can at least celebrate him finally winning a chamber match after being in 5 and losing all of them. Even Jericho has won one and he's like the ultimate jobber in these big multi-men matches. (been in the most amount of chamber and MITB matches and only won one among them)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say the RAW 2011 Chamber is way underrated in comparison to it's Smackdown counterpart on the same year. It may not have the epic Drew McIntyre stuff, but it's a snazzy match all on it's own merit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Raw 2011 one was great too, but it did have a very fuzzy and sour ending to my taste. It looked impactful (AA to the steel), but BOY, it too meant the officialization of Miz/Cena, and a little underwhelming too. For that alone, it loses points (though by no means was it the wrestlers' faults of course). Still, MORRISON was such a God.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Watched Batista/Undertaker HIAC from the same show and gotta say, whenever Taker is in that Cell, he really does heel it up, Batista looked the severe underdog-babayface role. Makes me think, does he do it on purpose?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Watched Batista/Undertaker HIAC from the same show and gotta say, whenever Taker is in that Cell, he really does heel it up, Batista looked the severe underdog-babayface role. Makes me think, does he do it on purpose?


I don't think It's Taker heeling it up, I think it's more him playing on the fact that there's no way in hell a 7 ft, 325 pound, demonic undead badass like himself can look weak in such a dangerous and hellacious structure. It's one thing messing with the devil and making him look weak, but making the devil look like the underdog in his own playground makes no sense and shouldn't be possible. Unless ofc. you're Brock Lesnar.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

King Cal said:


> The one "gripe" I have with the SD 2011 chamber, if it's the one that ends with Rey and Edge, is that they are literally just repeating the same stuff they did in 2009. It was a fun finishing stretch and all, but it was the same stuff they'd already done. I'd have to watch the whole match again but I do remember thinking it was overrated for the finishing stretch and for Drew McIntyre. Drew was KILLER no doubt... but I kinda hate that THAT is the moment 99% of people point to in order to show that Drew is good and has potential. The fact he was putting on great matches for a year and a half prior to that apparently means shit because he was AGGRESSIVE IN TEH CHAMBER.


I noticed this also, I actually watched the sd 2011 one before the 2009 match. As I was watching the final two of the 2009 I realized it was a carbon copy

Nonetheless Drew was stellar in it

I dont think the sd 2011 match is underrated at all, it gains alot of praise


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FLUX said:


> I don't think It's Taker heeling it up, I think it's more him playing on the fact that there's no way in hell a 7 ft, 325 pound, demonic undead badass like himself can look weak in such a dangerous and hellacious structure. It's one thing messing with the devil and making him look weak, but making the devil look like the underdog in his own playground makes no sense and shouldn't be possible. Unless ofc. you're Brock Lesnar.




See as much as I ADORE the Brock/Taker HiaC, I never got the vibe that others get watching it that Taker was the underdog. Brock was the first one to get bloodied, Brock was the one getting destroyed for most of the first segment, and Heyman did a wonderful job putting over how hellacious Taker is in the cell. Brock was being booked as an unstoppable monster at the point, so of course he needed to look strong going out, but I don't think he looked strong at the expense of Taker at all. I've even heard some call that Cell match a glorified squash. Um, no. Not even close. I've waffled several times on giving that match the full 5 stars, but I always end up giving it ****3/4, to be honest though, I don't know that I'd change a single thing about it. Outside of the original cell match, I think this is the strong #2 for best of the bunch. And ATF your wrong about the Chamber being the best gimmick franchise, until WWE ruined the cell by giving it it's own pay per view and making everything PG, Hell in a Cell was the best and most consistent gimmick match in all of wrestling. I think I'd have Last Man Standing right behind it.

Just look at the notable matches:

HBK vs Taker *****
Lesnar vs Taker ****3/4
Batista vs Triple H ****3/4
Foley vs Triple H ****1/2
Foley vs Taker ****1/2
Orton vs Taker ****1/2
Batista vs Taker ****1/4
Armageddon 6 Man ****1/4
Edge vs Taker ****1/4
Punk vs Cena vs ADR ***3/4

Those are just the first 10 that came to mind, I know I'm missing more. Taker being apart of 6 ****1/4+ matches in the cell is just ridiculous, not even mentioning the End of an Era match which makes some people shit all over themselves but I've never been that crazy about.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I always pictured Edge leveling Taker in their HIAC match, there was no underdog nor dominator, just two cunning individuals doing the exact opposite and rather performing insane spots. It's weird because that was the first time someone was on Taker's level in a match as such. Also, I agree with Cactus, Brock was the whipping boy half way through and then it was just like 'Oh Brock's got the upper hand now but Taker's still persevering and fighting through the pain'.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge was only able to "hang" with Undertaker inside HIAC because he turned it from Undertaker's Match into his own; TLC. One of the more genius match ideas I've seen tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Edge was only able to "hang" with Undertaker inside HIAC because he turned it from Undertaker's Match into his own; TLC. One of the more genius match ideas I've seen tbh.


Yep, I loved that about the match. Wasn't too big on it the first time but I rewatched it a couple of months ago and absolutely loved the TLC elements added into it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Cactus, you're right there: Hell In A Cell WAS the best and most consistent. On a whole, it isn't anymore. Hell, the Chamber's closest to bad match wasn't even "bad". It's Bret/Austin compared to stuff like Taker/Bossman and Mankind/Kane, both of which are pre-HIAC PPV. But I'd kinda agree on LMS. Still, Chamber is on top - or second, to MITB.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What is your guys opinion on Edge/Taker TLC? It dissapointed me yesterday, ***1/4 was what I gave it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Chamber is GOAT. Only fault I can find with it is the fact that I am not interested in it atm because it's screwing me out of the hinted Orton/Brock match. :cuss:



SMITTY said:


> What is your guys opinion on Edge/Taker TLC? It dissapointed me yesterday, ***1/4 was what I gave it


I'd rate it about the same. Fun to watch but it isn't without its flaws.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

IMO WWE missed a really good opportunity to do Brock vs. Orton back in 2012 when Orton was face. When a guy has limited appearances, I'm not sure why you would give him a TRILOGY with HHH. Oh well.

Really pumped for this year's EC after Smackdown though :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, you still have the awesome squash from 2002 to jizz over 

Plus, on its place, you're getting a Chamber w/your guy Orton and 5 of WWE's best workers in Cena, Bryan, Sheamus, Christian and Cesaro, PLUS the Shield vs. the Wyatts (which should've happened at WM). Hot damn.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Only fault in the chamber is no BORK

If Brock replaced Orton it would be :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@SMITTY re. Taker/Edge TLC, Unless I'm missing something altogether, it's my least favourite TLC match pre-TLC PPV. It's my least favourite altogether behind Jerishow/DX, the 2010 Four Way and Cena/Orton.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Only fault in the chamber is no BORK
> 
> If Brock replaced Orton it would be :mark:


Brock/Bryan/Cesaro/Christian/Cena/Sheamus for the #1 Contender's spot for the WWEWHC and Batista using his Rumble title shot against Orton like Cena in 08 would make me jizz


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FLUX said:


> @SMITTY re. Taker/Edge TLC, Unless I'm missing something altogether, it's my least favourite TLC match pre-TLC PPV. It's my least favourite altogether behind Jerishow/DX, the 2010 Four Way and Cena/Orton.


(Y) 

Ranking all TLC matches
15: Kane vs Rey vs Edge vs ADR: **
14: John Cena vs Randy Orton: **1/2
13: DX vs Jerishow: **1/2
12: Edge vs Undertaker: ***1/4
11: CM Punk vs The Miz vs ADR: ***1/2
10: TLC IV: ***3/4
9: Ryback vs CM Punk: ***3/4
8: Jerry Lawler vs The Miz: ***3/4
7: Edge vs John Cena: ***3/4
6: TLC II: ****
5: CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy: ****
4: Edge vs Ric Flair: ****1/4
3: TLC I: ****1/2
2: Shield vs Team Hell no and Ryback: ****3/4
1: TLC III: ****3/4​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Hey, you still have the awesome squash from 2002 to jizz over
> 
> Plus, on its place, you're getting a Chamber w/your guy Orton and 5 of WWE's best workers in Cena, Bryan, Sheamus, Christian and Cesaro, PLUS the Shield vs. the Wyatts (which should've happened at WM). Hot damn.


Yeah, no. I would pretend to mark if Orton hadn't already worked a million times with each of them.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I love the psychology/storytelling in Triple H/Big Show NYR of 06, won't please workrate freaks though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

With Shield vs Wyatts happening at EC my guess is that we get the long rumored triple threat between the shield at mania, and I assume that reigns wins. 

As good as six man tags are I'm pretty pumped to see Rollins in singles matches weekly :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, no. I would pretend to mark if Orton hadn't already worked a million times with each of them.


But THEY haven't worked with each other a million times already, have they? Plus, why not marking out at the sight of Bryan, Cesaro and Christian GOATing it up inside an Elimination Chamber? It screams beautiful.

Oh and yeah, Rollins is def. due for some singles action already. I just hope that he doesn't turn face and become yet another bland high-flyer character though, he plays the heel role just as well in the ring and much better off.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> With Shield vs Wyatts happening at EC my guess is that we get the long rumored triple threat between the shield at mania, and I assume that reigns wins.
> 
> As good as six man tags are I'm pretty pumped to see Rollins in singles matches weekly :mark:


I'm going to miss the six man tag matches so much. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> But THEY haven't worked with each other a million times already, have they? Plus, why not marking out at the sight of Bryan, Cesaro and Christian GOATing it up inside an Elimination Chamber? It screams beautiful.


Because Orton and Brock are the only two people in the roster I give a fuck about! (and Undertaker whenever he's there, but that's a rarity)

Cesaro, Bryan and company are all good wrestlers that I enjoy watching but they're more of a bonus than anything else. Maybe I wouldn't sound so miserable if it wasn't for the shitty crowds who are trying to ruin the shows since I couldn't have asked for more with CM Punk fucking off and Orton possibly main eventing WM.

To brighten things, I just read this rumor, though:



Spoiler: WM spoiler



Brock can possibly be added to the WM title match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

C2D is the only one happy right now :lmao 

and that spoiler= BORK carrying both of those lards

3 matches into SS 04, pretty shitty show so far, the opener was fun but besides that the matches haven't been too special


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

All I know is that if Bryan and Cesaro don't start off the Chamber, I'll complain on the Internet


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Have Bryan and Christian ever had a singles match together?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

yes


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Someone mentioned the Raw '11 Chamber? Always forget about that one but I really liked it. Morrison misses the knee and hitting the chamber was nasty.

Is it me, or does the internet not like Christian anymore?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Have Bryan and Christian ever had a singles match together?


Yeah, the latest one was on SD in July of last year (feels like just yesterday :|). Definitely worth checking out


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of the chamber, what are the pods made of? I always get the impression that it's plastic. :lol Also no idea why they bother pointing out that it's bulletproof.



SMITTY said:


> C2D is the only one happy right now :lmao


If only these cunts in the arenas stopped jerking off to a backstabber who ripped them off. :sad:



> and that spoiler= BORK carrying both of those lards


Orton doesn't need carrying, best case would be Batista being taken out early and Orton/Brock wrestling for 20 minutes. If Batista is supposed to win, have him pick up the pieces in the last minute.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> Yeah, the latest one was on SD in July of last year (feels like just yesterday :|). Definitely worth checking out


When I'm trying to date things in my head, Smackdown '11 feels so much more recent in my head than Raw '11 does. It's odd.

Also DRAGIC~! :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Think imma be watching some good ol Otto von Ruthless today :austin2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™;29575081 said:


> Think imma be watching some good ol Fang McFrost today :austin2


Fixed. :austin

I have a really long assignment that I'm gonna do pretty much all afternoon/evening today (so I don't have to do it on SB SUNDAY), so I'll probably have some DVDs going on in the background. Probably gonna try to finally watch all my SSlam DVDs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> HBK/Bulldog is one of the worst matches of all time, atleast as far as main events go. DUD.


Really? Havn't watched it in years so don't remember a thing from it. Their KOTR match though = :lenny


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

PGSucks said:


> Fixed. :austin
> 
> I have a really long assignment that I'm gonna do pretty much all afternoon/evening today (so I don't have to do it on SB SUNDAY), so I'll probably have some DVDs going on in the background. Probably gonna try to finally watch all my SSlam DVDs.


lolol and good luck focusing


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Isn't Autin/savio really good on that show?
> 
> I haven't seen it, but I thought I read that somewhere


That's where the lights go out. The actual strap match on the re-show they had to make up for it is amazing, though.

I agree that Michaels/Bulldog sucked. It was one of the most boring matches I can remember.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Brye said:


> Someone mentioned the Raw '11 Chamber? Always forget about that one but I really liked it. Morrison misses the knee and hitting the chamber was nasty.
> 
> *Is it me, or does the internet not like Christian anymore?*


Your crazy, everyone loves Christian :agree:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Your crazy, everyone loves Christian :agree:


I like Christian, quite a bit, but recently I've seen a lot more complaining about him.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Brye said:


> I like Christian, quite a bit, but recently I've seen a lot more complaining about him.


It's really weird that people would complain about him when he hasn't even been around


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> It's really weird that people would complain about him when he hasn't even been around


Well this is wrestling forum, there's no logic needed. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you guys should watch that christian/bryan match from sd in 2013


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> you guys should watch that christian/bryan match from sd in 2013


I'm sure I have seen it, but it's never a bad thing to watch those 2 wrestle multiple times.



> Well this is wrestling forum, there's no logic needed.


Logic helps sometimes :side:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Christian VS Bryan was good stuff.

Anyone up for watching this again?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Aww 2010, such a great year :cody

What year would you say was the worst year in the WWE since 2001?

Excluding 2013 of course.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wasn't a big fan of 2007. It had some good stuff, like any other year, but there was a lot of crap, imo.

But Raw 2003 was bad enough to almost make '03 worse if SD wasn't awesome that year.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Aww 2010, such a great year :cody
> 
> What year would you say was the worst year in the WWE since 2001?
> 
> Excluding 2013 of course.


2007 was pretty bad, IMO. The fact that Khali was WHC speaks volumes, even though, he seemed to at least be more competent in the ring then, than now. At least a bit more. He can barely walk, now. The year was just very un-eventful.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

In terms of booking/storylines, it's 2012.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah those 2 years would seem to be the popular answers for this question haha.

I have seen the 2003 shows more, so I'm probably gonna have to go with 07 for now, all that Batista crap doesn't help 07.



> 2007 was pretty bad, IMO. The fact that Khali was WHC speaks volumes, even though, he seemed to at least be more competent in the ring then, than now. At least a bit more. He can barely walk, now. The year was just very un-eventful.


I agree, the year was just kind of there.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> In terms of booking/storylines, it's 2012.


There were definitely some issues with booking in 2012, though in terms of the quality of the product, the Punk/Heyman promos were just too good for me to dislike the year. I was always highly entertained. 



William Murderface said:


> Yeah those 2 years would seem to be the popular answers for this question haha.
> 
> I have seen the 2003 shows more, so I'm probably gonna have to go with 07 for now, all that Batista crap doesn't help 07.


As for the Bryan/Ziggler match, it's a good match, wouldn't you say? I've always loved their matches, the one on Raw earlier this year was also very good. There may have been two this year on Raw, I don't really remember. 

I am referring to this one:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> As for the Bryan/Ziggler match, it's a good match, wouldn't you say? I've always loved their matches, the one on Raw earlier this year was also very good. There may have been two this year on Raw, I don't really remember.
> 
> I am referring to this one:


That Bragging Rights match is fantastic.

Danielson was the MVP of the latter year of 2010.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, Bryan and Ziggler just seem to connect very well in the ring.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

As for Cody Rhodes, I love the guy.

The ironic part is when he debuted to wrestle with Orton I was like who the fuck is this guy and why do I care :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was bored, and with some HIAC talk earlier, specifically Edge/Undertaker, I threw in disc 3 of Undertaker's Deadliest Matches set. Skipped a couple of matches but watched:

Vs Kennedy SVS 06 (First Blood) - Still a good match imo, though shorter than I remembered. Undertaker brutalising the ribs of Kennedy was awesome, and showed how sadistic Undertaker can be. Fuck smashing Kennedy's head with steel, he wanted to cause internal fucking bleeding on the guy.

Vs Big Daddy V SD 08 - :mark: Undertaker Vs a Fatty. Fun match with these 2 slugging it out like some crazy Japanese Monster movie. Debut of THAT SUBMISSION HOLD too, which was put over nicely with BDV tapping out INSTANTLY, bleeding out of his mouth, and Mark Henry coming down to check on V and screaming to Undertaker that he "went too far".

And then finally Vs Edge SS 08 HIAC - Great build up video, showing a lot of the Edge/Foley promo and shit. Match still holds up as being great. Some great spots, excellent use of weapons as Edge turns HIAC into TLC, HIS speciality match which he already beat 'Taker in a couple of months prior, so it gave HIM the advantage. And then of course the whole finish that was a callback to the SVS 07 HIAC with Undertaker Vs Batista where Edge returned and screwed Undertaker out of the belt. Hate the shitty editing done on this DVD for the end though, when Undertaker chokeslams Edge through the ring and sets it on fire. No idea why they did it like that, ruins it. So glad I went back and watched this again, however, it's still a somewhat odd match to me. It has all the pieces of a classic; great in ring action, spots that match sense, incredible storytelling, awesome finish... and yet they just don't come together like they should for me, and I don't know why. Technically it SHOULD be a ***** classic and held in high esteem with the original HIAC and other ***** matches... but for some reason it isn't. And I can't really place why. Something is apparently missing lol.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> As for Cody Rhodes, I love the guy.
> 
> The ironic part is when he debuted to wrestle with Orton I was like who the fuck is this guy and why do I care :lmao


Yeah, to be honest, I didn't really start caring about him much until the Dashing gimmick. He has impressed me since.

Though, I haven't cared much about him since November. No reason to. Creative Team has killed off interest in him by booking him as a character-less body in multi-man tag matches. He is losing steam right now, and hasn't been interesting since HIAC. I'd like for him to back into singles competition.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2006, 2007, and 2010 were pretty bad. RAW in 2002 and 2003 sucked too. Oh, and Smackdown in 2005 had nothing going for it. Yes, I am not a fan of the Eddie/Rey feud. I thought it sucked.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Yeah, to be honest, I didn't really start caring about him much until the Dashing gimmick. He has impressed me since.
> 
> Though, I haven't cared much about him since November. No reason to. Creative Team has killed off interest in him by booking him as a character-less body in multi-man tag matches. He is losing steam right now, and hasn't been interesting since HIAC. I'd like for him to back into singles competition.


I'm still holding out hope that they will give us Cody/Goldust at Mania :side:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I'm still holding out hope that they will give us Cody/Goldust at Mania :side:


I would also hope so, though, the near future doesn't look too bright for Cody. They had Goldust eliminate him at the Rumble, and they didn't even give it any attention. It just happened. It seems like if the feud does end up taking place, it will be treated as a filler midcard feud that will get 10 minutes at most, at 'Mania.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Still don't see the appeal in Goldust/Cody and nobody can convince me otherwise. Why rush the break up now, why not slowly build for Mania 31, where it would probably even get a bit more attention, plus we'll still have a good tag team for a year, seeing as The Shield look to be splitting up, the PTPs split up and The Real Americans probably are sooner rather than later. There's only so many Harper/Rowan vs. The Uso matches I can put up with.

There is literally no benefit of having the Rhodes bros. splitting up now. And don't tell me that it's to put Cody over, because it won't, they'll drop the ball with him, he'll have a mediocre midcard run before being saddled in another tag team, whilst Goldust (THE MORE TALENTED) becomes an afterthought once again or worse, unemployed.

LOSE LOSE.

I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FLUX said:


> Still don't see the appeal in Goldust/Cody and nobody can convince me otherwise. Why rush the break up now, why not slowly build for Mania 31, where it would probably even get a bit more attention, plus we'll still have a good tag team for a year, seeing as The Shield look to be splitting up, the PTPs split up and The Real Americans probably are sooner rather than later. There's only so many *Harper/Rowan vs. The Uso *matches I can put up with.
> 
> There is literally no benefit of having the Rhodes bros. splitting up now. And don't tell me that it's to put Cody over, because it won't, they'll drop the ball with him, he'll have a mediocre midcard run before being saddled in another tag team, whilst Goldust (THE MORE TALENTED) becomes an afterthought once again or worse, unemployed.
> 
> ...


lol you could make a 4 disc DVD on how many rhodes bros. + one guy vs the shield tooo, so idk on the fence


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I would also hope so, though, the near future doesn't look too bright for Cody. They had Goldust eliminate him at the Rumble, and they didn't even give it any attention. It just happened. It seems like if the feud does end up taking place, it will be treated as a filler midcard feud that will get 10 minutes at most, at 'Mania.


Probably, I have just always wanted to see the match though.

I mean they are a great tag team, now I wanna see them as opponents.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Hate the shitty editing done on this DVD for the end though, when Undertaker chokeslams Edge through the ring and sets it on fire. No idea why they did it like that, ruins it.


Was that bit left off that set then? I watched the Edge/Taker match on the SS'08 DVD.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

FLUX said:


> Still don't see the appeal in Goldust/Cody and nobody can convince me otherwise. Why rush the break up now, why not slowly build for Mania 31, where it would probably even get a bit more attention, plus we'll still have a good tag team for a year, seeing as The Shield look to be splitting up, the PTPs split up and The Real Americans probably are sooner rather than later. There's only so many Harper/Rowan vs. The Uso matches I can put up with.
> 
> There is literally no benefit of having the Rhodes bros. splitting up now. And don't tell me that it's to put Cody over, because it won't, they'll drop the ball with him, he'll have a mediocre midcard run before being saddled in another tag team, whilst Goldust (THE MORE TALENTED) becomes an afterthought once again or worse, unemployed.
> 
> ...


WWE's current booking of the two is terrible. All they do is participate in multi-man tag team matches on Raw and SD. I wouldn't be interested in seeing them as a Tag Team for another full year if they don't have anything interesting prepared for the two. 

It all depends on WWE's booking. They could put Cody well over in the feud if they would have booked the two the right way at Rumble, and get Goldust to eliminate Cody after Cody having eliminated some heels who had gotten a lot of heat for eliminating crowd favorites, like the Wyatt Family, and had an eliminated Goldust rush up from behind, and eliminate Cody, out of jealousy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Was that bit left off that set then? I watched the Edge/Taker match on the SS'08 DVD.


Not left off, but they go into black and white, and start doing that fuzzy Undertaker intro vid effect over the top of it and add some shitty dramatic music.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Not left off, but they go into black and white, and start doing that fuzzy Undertaker intro vid effect over the top of it and add some shitty dramatic music.


Ill have to re-watch the SS'08 DVD Version, could have sworn something similar happened on there, don't think it was black and white though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> What year would you say was the worst year in the WWE since 2001?
> 
> Excluding 2013 of course.


2012 by far.

No other year comes even close to being nearly as terrible. Not one bit close. 2007 was kinda bad too, although the negative increases tenfold because of Benoit. :sad: Yet nowhere enough to make it worse than 2012.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just curious but what are people basing the bad years on? Match quality, storylines or both?

Wondering because when I think back to most years, I can only really remember most of the stuff I enjoyed... which is always matches . Exceptions there are, like Raw 03 which was a pile of shite in every aspect, but some people are mentioning 07 and all I remember when I think of that year is the awesome Undertaker Vs Batista series, the HBK/Cena matches, the way they built to both of those WM matches by combining them with tags and shit against each other and then the likes of Orton, Edge, Finlay, MVP & Kennedy which resulted in some super tag matches. Then the likes of Finlay continuing his awesome 06 run along with guys like Matt Hardy too. As far as actual feuds and storylines, I probably only actually like a small handful in the last DECADE. Few angles stand out to me, it's always just the matches I remember. Like Undertaker/Batista. The feud was as basic as it comes. Undertaker wins RR. Challenges Batista at WM for WHC. They wrestle numerous times on TV and PPV for the sole reason of wanting to be the champ. Segments, promos, interviews... I can't remember a single one. But the matches I remember extremely well, and the same goes for a TON of stuff over the years. So essentially what I'm saying is, if storylines and angles were important to me in deciding what year was good, every year for a long arse time would be considered bad .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I definitely base it off a combination of match quality and storylines. And just the overall quality of the average show when you're watching. Different years episodes of Raw definitely feel a bit different at times. However matches trump feuds for me. Good matches in a bad feud are worth looking back on, good feud with bad matches aren't at all, imo.

'07 had it's fair share of good matches but I think they were kind of all around the same part of the year and much of it fell short for me, mostly due to injuries/suspensions though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

07 I remember starting off great and ending great, but the middle had Undertaker injured, HBK injured, Khali getting the WHC, Cena Vs Orton and other stuff that definitely went towards making the year shitty, but again my memories of the year are mainly just the good things . Thankfully.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty much what Brye said. When I went through the RA years, it was sad to see what had become of the show in 2007 compared to 2004. Show and booking had fallen off so far. After the RTWM, the only bright spots were Orton and the Taker/Batista feud.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Watching the second EC match now *(HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho)*

Beginning with HBK and Jericho was great, gotta love that Jericho in-ring psychology. Orton came in next and the first move he does is a flying move (splash) followed by dropkicks (he did those really well back then), I really miss this Orton. Goldberg was really over back then, lots of chants. Match was great, went back and forth until Nash came in who dominated the other three. :lmao at him getting kicked out so early. HHH is next but he's basically out until Goldberg came in and after. Didn't expect Orton to be out that fast. Goldberg pretty much steamrolled everything. Everyone but Goldberg and HHH was clearly just not meant to win. "THAT UNBREAKABLE PLEXIGLAS" :lmao, and oh wow Goldberg basically got pinned after one hit with the sledgehammer.

First one was way better, imo.

So far:

1. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
2. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

About a year ago I tried to watch HBK/Razor from WMX and couldn't get past the first five minutes and ragged on it in here ever since. I don't know what I was smoking that day but I just rewatched it and I think it's a GOAT match. Throwing 5* at this. I've never seen the rematch from SS 95 and gonna watch that now


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Last time I watched it was probably a year ago too, and it didn't hold up whatsoever. I can't imagine it all of a sudden becoming godly if I were to watch it today, either. Just another match on the long list of matches I'll never understand the love for. I know it was great and revolutionary back in the day, but that doesn't mean it should change my opinion and make me consider it a good match today.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

That was my main gripe with it...just hadn't aged well. It just clicked for me this time though. I remember watching that on ppv though and recording it...watched it almost every day for like 2 months straight. Was the best thing ever to me @ 13.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

New Year's Resolution 2005 Elimination Chamber match *(HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)*

Oh this is great because I don't remember a thing, but I guess HHH retains because this is the year Batista beats HHH at WM. Orton :mark:, why couldn't he stay like this?! Batista was pretty over. Benoit really caught me by suprise, didn't know he was in this. His theme was so good. Goat matchup in the beginning. Really like JR's commentary, he actually talks about the match. So yeah, the Jericho/Benoit section was great. Dunno if its the video but the crowd is really into it. HHH next, then Edge, then Orton. Seriously, just great action throughout the whole thing. Every move Benoit does looks so vicious. Edge went out relatively early, but he seemed to be the least involved in this for some reason. :lmao at HHH resisting both the Crossface and the Walls of Jericho after taking a Diving Headbutt. Things slowed down a bit after Batista came in. He eliminates both Benoit and Jericho after a while. Orton gets destroyed by Batista and HHH from then on, Orton got a good amount of fans behind him after he started kicking out and he actually managed to eliminate Batista there :mark: (the fans didn't seem to like it as much as I did). Damn, he actually would have won without Batista/Flair interrupting, didn't know that. HHH hits the obligatory Pedigree and wins his second Chamber match in a row.

My favourite out of the three I watched. None of the participants looked weak in this one.

So far:

1. New Year's Resolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
3. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Not a fan of the SS match for HBK/Razor, I own it on the ladder DVD so maybe I'll rewatch it. 

WM 10 is ****3/4 and still not MOTN


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Not a fan of the SS match for HBK/Razor, I own it on the ladder DVD so maybe I'll rewatch it.


This match was bad. Shawn's performance, particularly his selling was bad. His temper tantrum at the end was awful. Went down hill after Razor stopped working on the leg. ***


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> This match was bad. Shawn's performance, particularly his selling was bad. His temper tantrum at the end was awful. Went down hill after Razor stopped working on the leg. ***


Yeah I'd give it about the same, many would disagree with us though

Up to Eddie/Angle on SS 04, match has been BAD so far


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Razor WM ladder is only their 3rd best ladder match together.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I didn't even know their was a 3rd one 

Eddie/Angle was horrible btw, HHH/Eugene next :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had a bunch on house shows before WM. One is available online, I gots the full house show on DVD somewhere.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How does one obtain full house shows?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are plenty to download on torrent sites, or people sell them.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

bigbuxxx said:


> This match was bad. Shawn's performance, particularly his selling was bad. His temper tantrum at the end was awful. Went down hill after Razor stopped working on the leg. ***


You consider *** a bad match?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

FLUX said:


> You consider *** a bad match?


I assume he means for a match that is routinely brought up as one of the better ladder matches of all time 

gonna look for house shows on XWT now :mark:

EDIT: I found a WCW one with MENG vs Benoit :mark:

EDIT2: In german


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

FLUX said:


> You consider *** a bad match?


I mostly mean I didn't enjoy it. Considering the praise it gets I was expecting much more which makes it "bad".


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Watching the second EC match now *(HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho)*
> 
> Beginning with HBK and Jericho was great, gotta love that Jericho in-ring psychology. Orton came in next and the first move he does is a flying move (splash) followed by dropkicks (he did those really well back then), I really miss this Orton. Goldberg was really over back then, lots of chants. Match was great, went back and forth until Nash came in who dominated the other three. :lmao at him getting kicked out so early. HHH is next but he's basically out until Goldberg came in and after. Didn't expect Orton to be out that fast. Goldberg pretty much steamrolled everything. Everyone but Goldberg and HHH was clearly just not meant to win. "THAT UNBREAKABLE PLEXIGLAS" :lmao, and oh wow Goldberg basically got pinned after one hit with the sledgehammer.
> 
> ...


JR was pretty great in the Summerslam match (also in the Survivor Series match for that matter). So was Flair on the outside. 

Watching that match and the way it was booked, Hunter shouldn't have even been in there. When it was his turn, they had Shawn superkick him so he was out for a while, and only came in when it was down to he and Goldberg. Goldberg should have won the belt there, Hunter should have left for a bit and rehabbed his knee, then came back and won it at the beginning of the year if they wanted to keep the WM triple threat plans in place. That would have also spared us the awful Goldberg/Hunter matches. Evolution was peaking at that time though, so I don't know. 

A Goldberg/Henry series of matches might have been good. Maybe. Goldberg/Evolution feud just didn't interest me. Except when Goldberg returned the week after Batista cracked his ankle and JR marked the fuck out. Good 'ol JR.

Also, I liked Shawn/Razor at Summerslam. The face/face matchup worked for me, but I think I remember Shawn saying in an interview that Vince wouldn't let them use the ladder as a weapon because they were both faces.


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

*I know that I'm way late to the game on this one, but I was just now able to watch the match today. I am copying and pasting this from the 2014 MOTYC Thread. I hope that is acceptable. If it isn't, somebody please let me know.

Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan - WWE Royal Rumble (January 26, 2014) - ★★★★ ¼​
WOW!

What more is there to say other than what has already been said in this thread? I didn't get to see this match other than the ending during its live airing. I went back and watched it today after seeing everybody praise it so highly on here. I really enjoyed the ending when I saw it live, but I never expected that everything that preceded the ending would be this good. Let's face it: I don't think it's possible for Daniel Bryan to have a bad match. But that is definitely not to say that he carried Bray through this match. Bray more than held his own and was finally able to show just how entertaining he could be. I hate that creative had to hot-shot this angle and wrap it up so quickly. I suppose it's not guaranteed that the angle is over, but I'd have liked to have seen more than one singles match between these two on pay-per-view. In any event, all the magnificent wrestling aside, the character work in this match was absolutely phenomenal. Although Daniel Bryan delivers his character perfectly on a weekly basis, Bray really stood out here. Bray will no doubt be the top heel in the company by the end of next year, if not sooner. He really just has "it." From my perspective, his is the best new gimmick in wrestling in the last several years.

It goes without saying that this was the best match of the night, which is not usually expected from an opening bout. Of course, it was also the best show opener from the WWE in recent memory. There are two small things that take away from this match for me. The first was the semi-botch of Bryan's flying headbutt. Bray was way too close to the turnbuckle and it ended up being a splash instead. Still an effective move and a nice spot, but clearly not what Bryan was going for. That's a minor gripe, though, as it really wasn't a "botch" in the traditional sense of the word. The only other slightly annoying thing was how quickly Bray got over the leg injury after Bryan worked it for several minutes. It was a nice touch to his character to see him violently striking his own knee as if to "repair" it, but it still seemed like he got over the injury way too quickly. This was a bummer especially after how much of an emphasis was made on his leg injury after it happened toward the beginning of the match. Other than those two minor gripes, this match was damn near perfect.

I could easily see my rating for this one go up in the future after watching again. I wouldn't be surprised if it sits at a comfortable 4 and 1/2 stars at the end of the year when I prepare my final match of the year listing. The greatest part about all of this is that I see a future where these two square off in several classic battles in the main event with the belt on the line. Now THAT will be even sweeter!*


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Top 3 PPV of 2010?

I love Wrestlemania 26 but I don't really remember the rest of that year. probably TLC or MITB?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Elimination Chamber
WM26
MITB


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Jeff really shone in his RR match against Orton, quality match. Much better than the Rey/Edge affair later on, that fell below standards imo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Agreed. Hated that Rey/Edge match. Jeff Hardy was absolute piff in 2008 and 2009. I don't know if I enjoy anything Rey did at the Royal Rumble PPV. Not even a fan of the 2006 Royal Rumble. Meh, it wasn't entirely his fault, but the match was not that great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> I mostly mean I didn't enjoy it. Considering the praise it gets I was expecting much more which makes it "bad".


Maybe it's just me, but I think the SS 95' Ladder Match is a good deal better than the WM match. I have watched both about 3-4 times each and I think the SS one got ****1/2 from me on last watch and WM got ****. If I were to rate the top 5 ladder matches of all time (singles) it would probably be:

1. Benoit vs Jericho *****
2. HBK vs Razor SS 95' ****1/2
3. Sheamus vs JoMo TLC ****1/2
4. Eddie vs RVD Raw ****1/2
5. Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy Raw ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ funny thing is I actually only like two of those matches (#1 and 3) never been a fan of the hbk/razor tbh, just couldnt get into it, and I think the mania one not only smokes it but still the GOAT ladder


NEED SOMETHING TO watch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch DDP vs. Goldberg. And then watch Chris Jericho vs. Ricky Steamboat.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Agreed. Hated that Rey/Edge match. Jeff Hardy was absolute piff in 2008 and 2009. I don't know if I enjoy anything Rey did at the Royal Rumble PPV. Not even a fan of the 2006 Royal Rumble. Meh, it wasn't entirely his fault, but the match was not that great.


I don't know, I liked his RR match against Taker and he was the only saving grace of the 2006 rumble. I wouldn't say entirely but it's not the best match to showcase his skills.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Christian VS Bryan was good stuff.
> 
> Anyone up for watching this again?


I've seen it about 100 times in 2013 but I'll watch it again tomorrow.

I haven't seen it in months so it'll be kinda've fresh again. It was a really good match. Feels weird sometimes watching DB matches where he does those kicks without hearing the YES chants and/or hearing him scream YES. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback/Punk/Cena from Survivor Series 2012 is pretty damn good. Lots of things to rave at, such as Ryback no-selling Punk's suplex and Cena's protobomb, the Punk/Cena interactions, Cena and Punk working together to try to stop Ryback, and the debut of one of the greatest groups in wrestling history. Non-stop action for over twenty minutes. Yeah, this deserves more praise.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena/Punk/Show was also a solid triple threat for 2012.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I watched four Ricky Steamboat matches yesterday. I couldn't help but notice the similarities between him and El Generico/Sami Zayn. That is all.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched Over the Edge 1999 today. I was writing a review for it but then once the Owen incident happened I stopped caring about the review. I'll just give a quick opinion on each match

Match 1: X-Pac & Kane vs. D-Lo & Mark Henry: Very good tag team championship match to open the show.
Match 2: Hardcore Holly vs. Al Snow: Decent hardcore match but not as good as what they've put on in the past

Owen was set to take on The Godfather here but he tragically fell from the rafters. JR does a tremendous job trying to explain the situation. Must have been insanely difficult to do so.

Match 3: Jeff Jarrett and Debra vs. Val Venis and Nicole Bass: I wouldn't have cared about this match if the tragic incident preceding it didn't happen. I give even less of a shit now. Skipped it.
Match 4: Road Dogg vs. Billy Gunn: Should have been an interesting match as they had just broken up. Seemed like an okay match, but the crowd didn't care for it which did not help at all. I skimmed through it.
Match 5: Corporate Ministry vs. The Union: An eight man elimination match that was alright. Strange, heatless eliminations in the first few minutes didn't help. 

After that match, JR informs us that Owen has just died. Fucking awful thing to have to tell people on TV. Not sure what else to say.

Match 6: Triple H vs. The Rock: Good work on Rock's broken arm by Triple H. Good match but has a weird DQ finish. 
Match 7: Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker: This is alright, not as bad as the couple of shitshows these two had in late '98 but not as good as what they can do. Finish is messy as hell too.

Overall, it's an already poor show that obviously gets strongly overshadowed by Owen Hart's tragic death. So it's not an easy show to review. But there is nothing here to recommend to anybody and it's honestly just a depressing show to watch. 

I'll probably watch Raw is Owen tomorrow, not looking forward to that either. But I do hope it has some nice moments with people talking about him.

I also think the way people attack WWE and Vince for how they continued the show to be kind of unfair. We obviously have the benefit of hindsight and it's so easy to criticize. But this incident was something that had never happened before. I could only imagine the panic that was going on backstage about what to do. And both ways they could have gone were terrible. And who knows how that crowd might have reacted. There could have been a riot. You'd hope that people would be respectful and just leave the building, but that's not 100% certain. Also they would have had to send people/families/children home with the knowledge that a man died in front of them. Either way it was a lose/lose situation. I think they went with the one that might benefit the fans a little more. It wasn't the right way, but it wasn't the wrong way either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was I insane or did Smackdown offer up three really good matches & a storyline development or two? This show can matter more than RAW some weeks? Unreal.

Six man tag main event on here was a strong sprint. Want to rewatch the RAW main event, but I think this one has it beat. Also, Christian hasn't lost a step. Dude is prime. Doesn't hurt putting him in the ring vs Swagger again. Nonetheless, smooth as can be. Chamber match & Shield vs Wyatts have already made the upcoming PPV look sick, on paper. Can this PLEASE compute in reality?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is computing in reality, indeed. Atm Chamber is the best looking PPV on paper to NOT feature any part-time guy/special appearance since... well, since about MITB 2011.

Speaking of 2011, one show from that year that deserves way more recognition is, because we're onto this bandwagon, the Chamber. Not only are both Chamber matches excellent (the SD one much more so), but ADR gets a very fun opener out of Kofi, the Tag Title and Divas stuff is surprisingly harmless, and Miz/Lawler has to be one of the most criminally overlooked WWE Title matches of this generation. Top to bottom great card there. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. The show hasn't happened yet...

Last year's Chamber match looked good on paper too. Look what happened.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What exactly happened? Didn't meet the expectations? Yeah, sure. For the starpower it had, it was pretty damn underwhelming. But it was still a very good match, at least in my eyes. Mark Henry ruled the galaxy, the finish stretch was awesome, and you had some little cool stuff too (particularly the Bryan/Kane interactions). Plus, this year looks better than last year anyway. There's far bigger chance this one will actually meet the hype. But yeah, let's wait and see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Boring work went on, Mark Henry entered and made the next five minutes or so epic, he got booted, it began to suck again. End.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I see we're in opposite thought regarding the ending stretch, then. Yes, the pre-Henry work was dull as hell. Then Henry showed up, and even after he got kicked out, it was still a fast and fun race to the end. Who cares if it the three-way section was kind of a move fest, it made it the more engaging to watch. Plus the fact that, after Henry got kicked out, I seriously didn't knew who was winning, given they all had just the same chance. But kicks. 

We both agree that Shield/Justice League was the best match of the card anyway, there's that at least.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Who cares if it the three-way section was kind of a move fest,


I did it SUCKED.




ATF said:


> it made it the more engaging to watch.


NOPE it SUCKED.



Cody you watch Chavo/Smith yet?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. Saw the link though so it'll be a matter of time. Part of me wished Smith was working heel in it _(I clicked the link and saw the entrances)_ Remaining hopeful the work didn't need a significant dynamic behind it. Wonder if I should have hoped Chavo was heel b/c all of his better performances have come from when he was a heel. I'm a sucker for Big jerk vs little good guy matches. That's where the power lies.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> NOPE it SUCKED.


NOT for me. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

January is in the books for WWE circa 2014. Here's the quality TV list. _(yes, this is a project that's sticking monthly)_



Spoiler: list



*RAW:*

1) Roman Reigns vs CM Punk (13:20) - *1/6*

2) The Shield vs Goldust, Cody Rhodes, & Big E. Langston (7:08) - *1/20*

3) Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio (12:03) - *1/20*

4) Jack Swagger & Antonio Cesaro vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara II (6:16) - *1/27*

5) John Cena, Daniel Bryan, & Sheamus vs The Shield (20:55) - *1/27*


*Smackdown:*

1) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Goldust & Cody Rhodes(c) vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan (10:28) - *1/3*

2) Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio (4:50) - *1/17*

3) Big Show & Rey Mysterio vs Jack Swagger & Antonio Cesaro (5:40) - *1/24*

4) Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler (5:35) - *1/31*

5) Christian vs Jack Swagger (5:53) - *1/31*

6) The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, & Rey Mysterio (9:53) - *1/31*


*Main Event:*

1) Jack Swagger & Antonio Cesaro vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods - *1/8*


*NXT:*

1) *Two out of Three Falls Match*
Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger - *1/1*


*Superstars:*

1) Jack Swagger vs Tyson Kidd (4:52) - *1/2*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it.  Will upload to DM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Willing to take a match request if i have it.  Will upload to DM.


Upload Matt/Helms from No Mercy '06 - everybody deserves to watch that awesome little gem


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Upload Matt/Helms from No Mercy '06 - everybody deserves to watch that awesome little gem


Found it here 

xy9fu8


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh thanks Clint, that is great stuff indeed


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

*New Year's Resolution Elimination Chamber Match #4 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)*

Not gonna bother with a longer write-up. Cena got hated quite a bit even back then (more than now I think). Didn't expect that final three. Ending was shit. Worst chamber match out of the four, imo.


So far:

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
3. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)
4. New Year's Revolution 2006 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Worst chamber ever still imo. Awful match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Worst chamber ever still imo. Awful match.



I actually haven't seen that Chamber, is it really worse than the ECW one? I've got the whole Satans Prison set I just never bothered watching it because it seemed totally unappealing on paper.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

BUT THAT CASH IN :mark: 

Hitman could you upload Cena vs Jericho @ SVS 08?

As for chamber rankings, I really need to finish my list for that, all I got to was what was on the chamber set AKA not 2011-2013


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> I actually haven't seen that Chamber, is it really worse than the ECW one? I've got the whole Satans Prison set I just never bothered watching it because it seemed totally unappealing on paper.


ECW one isn't THAT bad tbh. I enjoyed parts of it a hell of a lot more than the Raw one earlier in the year. Neither are worth checking out ever though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to start the two Championship matches on SS 04, was gonna finish last night but was watching UFC 169 so I didn't. Show has been dreadful so far outside of two matches that were OK

ECW Chamber: **
NYR 06 chamber: **1/2

two worst chambers imo


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> BUT THAT CASH IN :mark:
> 
> Hitman could you upload Cena vs Jericho @ SVS 08?


Yeah, will do tomorrow.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> *New Year's Resolution Elimination Chamber Match #4 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)*
> 
> Not gonna bother with a longer write-up. Cena got hated quite a bit even back then (more than now I think). Didn't expect that final three. Ending was shit. Worst chamber match out of the four, imo.
> 
> ...


It's weird remembering Carlito/Masters in late 05/06, I mean they were practically main eventers, feuding with HBK and Ric Flair and main eventing many times RAW, being part of team RAW, Masters competed for the WWE championship against Angle/Cena once, both were in that EC and the in the final 3 iirc before Cena eliminated them..I think they could have done much more with them during the WM season than a feud with Show/Kane..


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Carlito sucks 

Im glad hes gone


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TBH I'm not sure what they could have done at WM 22 that would have been better than the super fun opener they had with Show & Kane. Neither guy was ready for a big spot on the card at the time. WWE tried to push them too hard and too fast and they realised it, hence them moving out of main event type feuds and matches and into the tag division opening WM.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Masters made the biggest turnaround ever in a worker. Went from being the worst on the roster to one of the best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame they only pushed him when he was shit .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Finished Taker/JBL, it was decent, will start Orton/Benoit soon, then after some studying will start my WM 27 review


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Summerslam 2004 review

Eugene loses his smile 

Match #1: The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray, D-Von and Spike) vs Rey Mysterio, Billy Kidman and Paul London
*
Well this should be interesting, 4 cruiserweights and then Bubba Ray and DVON. But this should be a fun and fast paced match, but then again I could just be getting my hopes up. When the Dudleys walk out Spike gets a piece of paper thrown at him :lmao, this show is off to a good start already. There in Toronto, so expecting a great crowd here, should be fun. Early on a really fast paced match early on, plenty of fun being had. Spike is so fucking skinny, never realize that he looked like he hasn't eaten in like a month. When Mysterio is in the ring with Spike I feel like its one of those midget matches in the 80s :lmao. The team thats not the Dudleys might be the most FUN team of all time, those three guys are all just :mark: worthy in this match, tons of fun. This whole match just absolutely reeked of FUN, and it delivered. The heels winning was an odd booking decision, but it was still an awesome opener. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2

Match #2: Kane vs Matt Hardy*

No way am I watching another match from these two, especially with the stipulation that the winner marries Lita, I’ll be to jealous of the victor . NO

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: John Cena vs Booker T *

Watching this for the LOLS because this match will likely suck balls, so I wouldn’t say I’m looking forward to it really. We get a Randy Orton and John Cena confrontation backstage, nobody cared back then too, shocker. Booker T is the US champion; I had no idea that Cena lost the belt until 2005 tbh. This is match one of a best of 5 series, so there will be more of these matches, uh oh. Cena is wearing a Blue Jays jersey, LOL at him looking for cheap pops. Whose idea was a best of 5 series? Can we do that today with like, Cesaro vs Rollins or something like that? Because that would be :mark:. Match is nothing special so far, basically your standard match that has no sense of uniqueness whatsoever. Crowd is behind Cena but they don’t care too much about the match. I'm not a huge fan of Cena's 2004 work outside of the great match with Big Show at mania, and working with Booker T all the time won’t make his work any better. Match is pretty boring, but nothing so terrible that I'm upset that I didn't just skip it. It’s just an extremely generic match that didn't have much substance. *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #4: Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho *

Batista in 2004 :allen1

This will probably be pretty bad, because of Batista of course. This should have just been Jericho vs Edge TBH, would have been a much better match. Edge gets a very small pop for Toronto being his hometown :lmao. Crowd chants Y2J, AKA we don’t give a damn about Edge OK :lol. Edge is knocked out by Batista EARLY, so we get a backlash of Batista vs Jericho early, fuck thats a bummer. Edge finally comes back and saves Jericho from Batista. The crowd just not caring about Edge is making this match extremely enjoyable, now hes being BOOED :lmao this is so amazing. But besides the crowd this has been pretty bland, similar to the last match in that it has no substance at all, even the segments without big dave are a little underwhelming. Crowd is completely behind Jericho here, not that I blame them because Edge is no Y2J. Edge wins via the spear and crowd BOOS the hell out of him :lmao, so rich. Oh well, Edge shouldn’t be too upset, he was cheered like a GOD during the TLC match in 2006. Strange how Big Dave didn't win based on how big they were on him at the time. Anyway this didn’t bring too much to the table but wasn’t that bad. **1/4 

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match # 5: Eddie Gurrero vs Kurt Angle *

Oh god I forgot about this, apparently its Eddie’s worst match ever, this should be a bummer then. I like these guys mania match, so there is a small chance that I could still enjoy this, but I doubt it. Pretty boring early on, at least I somewhat expected this besides being extremely dissapointed in the match. Eddie should still be WWE champion TBH and be facing Taker at this show, JBL can face Angle in the midcard, I want my dream match goddammit! This match has been pretty shitty so far, poor Eddie actually having a poor match. LUTHER REIGNS is out at ringside, this guy was always terrible iirc. I have to put Taz and Cole over here, these two are doing really well on commentary in making this match a lot more enjoyable, surprisingly so because they're usually good on commentary, but not great. In the end Eddie taps out, horrible match. *1/2
*
CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #6: HHH vs Eugene *

:mark: because this match is supposed to be pretty good, even though it sounds terrible on paper. Nick Dinsmore was actually a pretty good worker but got stuck with a comedy gimmick so he was never really given a real match, this might be the exception. I have to say that Eugene is probably the GOAT comedy character I think, really can’t think of anyone else who’s better. Wow this match is shockingly fast paced early on, Eugene was a better worker than I thought I assume. HHH keeping Lillian Garcia as a hostage for a brief moment was :mark: worthy heel tactics. HHH is controlling the match so far, which is likely for the best, even though Eugene can work, HHH is still better. Trips heeling it up here is just so fun to watch and so is Eugene beating him up, because HHH being buried is pretty hilarious. I don’t know why I'm enjoying this so much, maybe it’s actually an entertaining match? Wow I wasn't expecting that going in tbh. In the end though HHH adds Eugene to his :buried list but Eugene did give up a good fight and a little cheating by Flair. This match is no Flair/Steamboat but it’s certainly entertaining. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #7: Team Dream vs Team diva Dodgeball game *

:lmao NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1

Match #8: The Undertaker vs JBL*

Honestly I heard that this isn’t AMAZING but I’m sure it will still be an entertaining brawl. Honestly Takers work in 2004 wasn't too special, so hopefully he will deliever for a good match here. Taker works the arm early, and tries to go for an old school. Decent match so far, not amazing but decent. Wait a minute the crowd is doing the fucking WAVE :lmao what in the actual fuck. Also Cole and Taz :buried the crowd :lol. Dont know why the crowd doesn't care as this is actually a prettu good match so far, not amazing but MOTN so far. So this was a decent match but nothing to write home about. I could see why some would dislike it but I enjoyed myself all the way through. The DQ finish put a damper on the match but it made sense given JBL's charachter. These two had a rematch at No mercy that should be pretty good. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3

Match #9: Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit *

This should be pretty good, no idea why I haven’t seen it before, but now is better than ever I guess. I know some dislike this but some also praise it so I should like it, I'm not extremely picky when it comes to Benoit matches. Match is slow to start out which is not what I expected at all, but I will be patient and not say I dislike the match yet. Match is getting a little better, its still not what I expected so I have to admit I am a little dissapointed so far. Crowd is into this match at least, meaning they're reacting to what Orton and Benoit are doing and not doing the wave. Benoit does a suicide dive and nearly goes right into the crowd, some crazy shit right there. First half of this was pretty bad but it has picked up considerbly well in the second half, which is pretty good. The ending to this match is awesome, but its too bad that Orton only held the belt for a month and his babyface run was horrendously bad. Still a match with a horrendous first half and an awesome second half. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 11.5 

Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: Wrestlemania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood(12)
5: Summerslam(11.5)
6: Judgment day( 9.5) 
7: Vengeance(8.5)
8: Royal Rumble (8)
9: The Bash (7)
*​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You chose not to watch a Kane/Matt hardy match yet still decided to watch a 2004 John Cena vs Booker T match? :ron

Kane/Hardy wasn't even bad. Both threw some fantastic punches and the match had some nice ideas, like Hardy willing to settle for the countout to show desperation, Lita not being bothered about the moral highground and giving Matt the bell etc. nothing great but I don't see why you wouldn't watch it. Ending looked rather sick as well


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Didn't watch it because their Vengeance match sucked 

Cody told me to watch Booker/Cena for the LOLS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't listen to Cody.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

PPV still sucked Tbh

Super bowl tonight :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Didn't watch it because their Vengeance match sucked
> 
> Cody told me to watch Booker/Cena for the LOLS


Then you should really watch the No Mercy match for LOLS 8*D


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hardy/Kane from SS was decent, **1/2 nothing spectacular. Why thet hate for Eddie/Angle? ***1/2 for it, very good match


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

*December to Dismember Elimination Chamber Match #5 (Big Show vs Test vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Bobby Lashley vs Hardcore Holly)*

The beginning wasn't that horrible to be honest, I liked the Punk vs Holly vs RVD part actually, but everything went horribly wrong after that. I thought each member having a weapon was quite cheesy. Never been a fan of that Lesnar clone too.

The RAW one is still worse though.

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
3. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)
4. December to Dismember 2006 (Big Show vs Test vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Bobby Lashley vs Hardcore Holly)
5. New Year's Revolution 2006 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Hardy/Kane from SS was decent, **1/2 nothing spectacular. Why thet hate for Eddie/Angle? ***1/2 for it, very good match


Because the whole match is nothing bug Angle Slams and Ankle Locks.

Plus their match at Mania wasn't even that good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

***3/4 for the mania, hated SS

watching WM 27 for some reason


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Mght rewatch that. Talking about rewatches, a rating for the Batista/Khali Punkabi Prison match? . Can remember nothing from that match


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> ***3/4 for the mania, hated SS
> 
> watching WM 27 for some reason


I can see watching the first half, but please tell me you are not going to watch the second half :|


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Remember Miz was main eventing. and now he is like one of the most useless guys on the rosters. Still have no idea whether he is a heel or a face


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I can see watching the first half, but please tell me you are not going to watch the second half :|


IDK what im gonna do yet

I own the blu ray and wanted to watch it

Miz is a face I think, got cheered like a god at a house show I went to and took pics with kids


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> IDK what im gonna do yet
> 
> I own the blu ray and wanted to watch it
> 
> Miz is a face I think, got cheered like a god at a house show I went to and took pics with kids


Well god have mercy on your soul if you watch anything after the 8 man tag haha.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The 8 man tag is the third match on the card :lmao 

Punk/Orton and HHH/Taker are OK IIRC


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I meant after Punk/Orton haha.

Triple H/Taker is god awful though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching more documentaries to put a big list together of the best of them. Watching Austin's doc... hard to believe it's up to 1999 and there is still a full HOUR left :mark:. AE doc is the worst I've watched so far, and that still isn't even bad, just too short (1 hour long) so it misses out a lot of stuff.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I meant after Punk/Orton haha.
> 
> Triple H/Taker is god awful though.




Taker vs HHH at 27 is seriously the most loved/hated match I've seen lol. I personally love it still after countless rewatches. When HHH hit that tombstone I honestly thought it was over. I admit it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Rep for SMITTY if you actually watch Cole vs Lawler and give a review on it. :ti



Oliver-94 said:


> Remember Miz was main eventing. and now he is like one of the most useless guys on the rosters. Still have no idea whether he is a heel or a face


And he's losing to Ziggler and Ziggler's been buried hard. :lmao



William Murderface said:


> Triple H/Taker is god awful though.


King Cal is mad right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I haven't heard Cal being referred to as a King since back when people in this thread thought Kurt Angle was GOAT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Rep for SMITTY if you actually watch Cole vs Lawler and give a review on it. :ti


Challenge accepted

I'll watch it now, I've actually never seen it before


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of lame shitty pathetic waste of oxygen Miz, I hate any time he's on a documentary. He looks ridiculous with his cheap, tacky looking "suit" for starters, and he has about as much credibility as a massive pile of shite. He has no insight into Austin, he wasn't there when Austin was active. Nobody cares what he has to say as a fan. Why should we? Santino has more credibility on documentaries when he's on them and still in fucking character :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Jerry Lawler vs Michael Cole*

Who is the WOAT announcer? 

Cole insults JR as he’s coming down the ramp, yeah fuck you Cole you’re wearing the worst fucking gear of all time. Okay that was the WOAT promo Michael Cole nobody even bothered to boo at first. Jack Swagger comes down the ramp as his trainer. Honestly I think a Lawler vs Swagger match would be :mark: if it was back when King was in his prime. STONE CAWD IS HERE! Damn he almost fucking plows into Swagger at first. Booker T says Austin is his “Dog”, yeah okay Booker. Jerry Lawler has the best entrance music though, but what the fuck is he wearing? It’s like armor of some sort, okay can we get to this match already, and I’m ready for this to be over. Wait so now Cole doesn’t want to fight, god damn what a pussy. King climbs in the Cole mine and is just beating the fucking shit out of him, Austin looks like he is about to puke at what WWE has become. We have JR on commentary which is great but Booker T and Josh Matthews are jobbers, well its better than fucking Matt Striker last year at least. 

I have no idea what’s going on in the ring right now, its not wrestling, its more like Cole being a huge *** and making everyone want their refund. The only bright spot in this match is Stone Cold. JR is burying WWE and Cole on commentary, so he is the other bright spot, but Mathews is so bad that it kind of hides it I guess. Cole is putting in the Ankle lock, Vince must be getting sick backstage, I have no idea why the crowd gives a shit here, WOAT mania match possibly. Stone Cold giving the stunner to Swagger was :mark: BTW. Is this almost over? I have a party to get to for the super bowl in about an hour, I cant be here forever. Booker says this is a fun match, yeah right Booker..Fuck you. So Cole taps out and thank god its over, that was so bad, and at least King right. Booker T goes up and asks for some ber and nobody wants to give him any :lmao. Then he does a spinaroonie, wow no one cares. Then a stunner on Booker T! :mark:. Oh fuck we get something from the RAW GM, that whole email shit was horrible, and it ended out being Hornswoggle. So now Michael Cole wins by DQ, fuck that. DUD

:selfie​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Triple H/Taker is god awful though.


 



King Cal said:


> Watching more documentaries to put a big list together of the best of them. Watching Austin's doc... hard to believe it's up to 1999 and there is still a full HOUR left :mark:. AE doc is the worst I've watched so far, and that still isn't even bad, just too short (1 hour long) so it misses out a lot of stuff.


Looking forward to that list. Loved Austin's doc, still think the ECW is the best one, even ten years later lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW doc isn't even in the top 3 atm .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Austin, this promo is fucking GOLD:



And Regal on Hulkamania :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> ECW doc isn't even in the top 3 atm .


For me, the best documentaries I've seen are

1. Foleys
2. Punks
3. Jake the Snakes
4. ECW
5. Steve Austin's
6. Bret Harts
7. Ric Flair
8. Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen
9. WCW
10. History of the WWE

Are any of those on your list?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 of them are. Only watched 12 so far for my list.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I really need to see Jake The Snake's. I was never really bothered but then I heard him on the AOW and he sounds like such a legit nice guy with a great story. I'm not familiar with his work whatsoever either, so the majority will be completely new to me. Love it when completely new stuff in the oh so familiar world of wrestling crops up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill just post one more as it;s still one of my favorite ever promos:






Anyone know the date? I know it was before Survivor Series.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I hate to change the subject but I just realized that 2012 had some GREAT matches on, I mean, look at this top 10

1: Brock vs Cena: *****
2: Bryan vs Punk: ****3/4
3: Shield TLC: ****3/4 
4: Jericho vs Punk: ****1/2
5: Sheamus vs Bryan: ****1/2
6: Taker vs HHH: ****1/2
7: Cena vs Punk: ****1/4 
8: Sheamus vs Show: ****1/4
9: Brock vs HHH: ****
10: Bryan vs Punk MITB: ****

I mean, it may have not been consistent, but thats a GREAT top 10


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It had amazing matches, but also awful ones. That Sheamus/ADR triology from 2012 was one of the worst feuds for the WHC that I can remember.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah top 10 matches for 2012 is pretty darn great, with even a couple from TNA, and damn, TNA haven't had a match worth of a top 50 of the year probably since the first Nigel/Angle match back in 09 .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Cal said:


> Yeah top 10 matches for 2012 is pretty darn great, with even a couple from TNA, and damn, TNA haven't had a match worth of a top 50 of the year probably since the first Nigel/Angle match back in 09 .


Aries/Ray @ Sacrifice was one of the best matches of the year, definitely a top 10, maybe top 5 (between the two promotions). Adore it so much.

Recommend to anybody, TNA fan or not.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Roode/Aries from Destination X was pretty awesome too


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

When did this forum start hating Christian?

Come on......


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People are stupid.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't been in wrestling mode very much lately so I decided to pick a random match I haven't seen before and went with Benoit & Angle vs Los Guerreros from Smackdown 17-10-2002 in the tag title tournament semi finals. Absolutely awesome match even though it's not as great as the No Mercy tag team finals match. ★★★★.

I am a bit confused about the heel/face part of this, though. I thought Benoit and Angle were heels at this point but all the crowd chants are for them and the hot tag part involves Angle getting tagged in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking as someone who was a mark around that time, Angle and Benoit were so lovable during that period a la Team Hell No, except even more so than Team Hell No. Benoit honestly did not make much sense as a heel during that time because he came back from a year long injury where prior to leaving, he was a main event face. Angle was so damn funny and entertaining at everything he did, and combine the two contrasting personalities of Benoit and Angle, and you get Smackdown's version of Bookdust. Los Guerreros got that same treatment too, but that happened to them in early 2003. Awesome match that you chose to watch by the way. I gave it around the same star rating.

I am flabbergasted at how much I like Hardcore Holly & Shannon Moore vs. Matt Morgan & A-Train from late 2003. Somehow the babyface team clicked so well here. That's how good Smackdown was that year. The fact that the combination of those four wrestlers could produce even the slightest bit of magic shows just why it was the best year ever for a wrestling television show.

EDIT: Bruno Mars' concert: *DUD*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

People that are hating on Christian need to take a LONG hard look in the mirror and decide why they watch wrestling. Christian is one of the few guys on the roster who is an actual WRESTLER, not an entertainer playing wrestler, and he does just about everything right in the ring. He's obviously got a great connection with most crowds and has a laundry list of fantastic matches. Not to mention how much he can help out some of these clueless young guys we have currently inhabiting the show. Christian is great and anyone that thinks otherwise has absolutely nothing in common with me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking as someone who was a mark around that time, Angle and Benoit were so lovable during that period a la Team Hell No, except even more so than Team Hell No. Benoit honestly did not make much sense as a heel during that time because he came back from a year long injury where prior to leaving, he was a main event face. Angle was so damn funny and entertaining at everything he did, and combine the two contrasting personalities of Benoit and Angle, and you get Smackdown's version of Bookdust. Los Guerreros got that same treatment too, but that happened to them in early 2003. Awesome match that you chose to watch by the way. I gave it around the same star rating.


Well put. It's funny how well Benoit worked with a little bit of comedy added to the side to go along with his no-nonsense, intense attitude. That toothless grin is one of the best smiles I've ever seen, lol.



> EDIT: Bruno Mars' concert: *DUD*


What a surprise. The guy's a useless hack who should set himself on fire.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Well put. It's funny how well Benoit worked with a little bit of comedy added to the side to go along with his no-nonsense, intense attitude. That toothless grin is one of the best smiles I've ever seen, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> What a surprise. The guy's a useless hack who should set himself on fire.




It's just a small thing, but one of my favorite Benoit moments was in that Orton match on Smackdown, were he channeled his inner Eddie Guerrero and faked that attack from Booker to get him booted from ringside. It wasn't a big deal or anything, but given his well known love for Eddie I thought it was a perfect little tribute that also showed Benoits comedy side when he had that shit eating grin on his face when the plan worked.

That's the kind of comedy I think should be on today's television, not elaborate skits with Michael Strahan that are not only completely unfunny, they are damaging to the whole suspension of disbelief thing. I continue to believe that skit was one of the worst things that Vince has ever allowed on his show. He not only belittled his performers by allowing a non wrestler to hip toss them, he just made a mockery of real wrestling in general. Miz saying "ladies and gentleman, Michael Strahan!" Completely irked me as well. Wrestling is supposed to be a work, it's stops being a work when you openly tell them what they watched wasn't real. Ugh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To be fair, Miz did use a similar spot in his match against Axel at MITB 2013, and he actually did it pretty well.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> It's just a small thing, but one of my favorite Benoit moments was in that Orton match on Smackdown, were he channeled his inner Eddie Guerrero and faked that attack from Booker to get him booted from ringside. It wasn't a big deal or anything, but given his well known love for Eddie I thought it was a perfect little tribute that also showed Benoits comedy side when he had that shit eating grin on his face when the plan worked.
> 
> That's the kind of comedy I think should be on today's television, not elaborate skits with Michael Strahan that are not only completely unfunny, they are damaging to the whole suspension of disbelief thing. I continue to believe that skit was one of the worst things that Vince has ever allowed on his show. He not only belittled his performers by allowing a non wrestler to hip toss them, he just made a mockery of real wrestling in general. Miz saying "ladies and gentleman, Michael Strahan!" Completely irked me as well. Wrestling is supposed to be a work, it's stops being a work when you openly tell them what they watched wasn't real. Ugh.


I hated that Miz segment for the same reason. Playing off actual tension between themselves and then just going 'hey naw we were just playin' hahaha'. I found the segment to be entertaining before that last 20 seconds which completely killed it.

On a related note, remember that segment just after he turned heel on Kofi a few months ago? And he said something heelish and he started going "OWWW OWWW I'M THE BAD GUY! I'M THE BAD GUY!" or something stupid like that. Yeah I fucking hated that with a passion. It was like he was trying to give me a wink and a nudge with the heel turn thing, but instead he was kicking me square in the junk repeatedly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So we can establish that Miz is a pile of wank who ruins wrestling.

Next on the agenda; discovering that Ric Flair might actually have a catalogue of good matches...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> It's just a small thing, but one of my favorite Benoit moments was in that Orton match on Smackdown, were he channeled his inner Eddie Guerrero and faked that attack from Booker to get him booted from ringside. It wasn't a big deal or anything, but given his well known love for Eddie I thought it was a perfect little tribute that also showed Benoits comedy side when he had that shit eating grin on his face when the plan worked.


Yeah, thought that was well placed and timed as it was only two months since Eddie had died. I don't understand when people say Benoit had no personality. Sure, he wasn't Eddie or Rock but when he would give comedy a try, it was always amusing, like those backstage segments when he made a joke out of Orlando Jordan.

Speaking of channel their inner Eddie, it always cracks me up when I watch the Raw rematch from 2004 for the IC title with Orton and RVD when the ref is down and Orton hits RVD with a lowblow. He suddenly lays down and yells for the ref for some random reason. This is the match if you have twenty minutes to spare.



> That's the kind of comedy I think should be on today's television, not elaborate skits with Michael Strahan that are not only completely unfunny, they are damaging to the whole suspension of disbelief thing. I continue to believe that skit was one of the worst things that Vince has ever allowed on his show. He not only belittled his performers by allowing a non wrestler to hip toss them, he just made a mockery of real wrestling in general. Miz saying "ladies and gentleman, Michael Strahan!" Completely irked me as well. Wrestling is supposed to be a work, it's stops being a work when you openly tell them what they watched wasn't real. Ugh.


Ha, that segment actually had me rolling. But I should probably give the credit to Titus for that. :lol But yeah, it was such a waste of TV time and nothing was accomplished from it. Earlier today I was watching some clips of Kurt Angle's funny moments and I just couldn't stop laughing. Wish that kind of comedy would come back instead of this PG crap where someone tells a childish joke and Lawler has to add in that stupid laugh in between (which makes me laugh for the wrong reasons btw).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Cal said:


> So we can establish that Miz is a pile of wank who ruins wrestling.
> 
> Next on the agenda; discovering that Ric Flair might actually have a catalogue of good matches...


I heard Flair has a good match against some Hawaiian guy named Jimmy Steamboy or something.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LOL Broncos 

To get some wrasslin in, fuck miz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I heard Flair has a good match against some Hawaiian guy named Jimmy Steamboy or something.


I thought he was a Ninja?


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well fuck I just watched that Strahan segment and it turns out the bit I was talking about was in the same segment. 'MIZ IS THE BAD GUY, MIZ IS THE BAD GUY, WHAT A HEEL, COME ON IT WAS A JOKE!'. 

Fuck that segment.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

King Cal said:


> I thought he was a Ninja?


I thought he was a fire breathing giant lizard or something


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A fire breathing giant lizard Hawaiian Ninja.

I knew I loved Steamboat for a reason.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching Raw is Owen. 

Mark Henry's poem was beautiful. Tears in my eyes now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

About to watch Summerslam 1997 in my 1997 watch, and Owen Hart is freaking killing it every night. Like BITW level good. Man this Hart Foundation vs. USA/Austin feud is a beauty. The midcard kinda sucks because DOA is the worst stable ever, LOD always sucked, and Los Boricuas are shit. Undertaker is also getting the midcard champion treatment for some odd reason. Other than that, it's been a very good year to watch through.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man I wish I paid a bit more attention during my watch of 1997. Unfortunately I found anything other than the main event scene to be so damn dull that I'd just push through each episode trying to get to 1998 faster, which I knew was supposed to be a more entertaining year.

It's a shame because the Hart family anti-USA stuff was good, and I didn't really absorb all of it properly. Maybe at some point I'll go back and just watch all the main event segments and matches. 

Raw is Owen is a great tribute show. Man Jeff Jarrett and Debra struggled so much to cope with it, their tribute bits were hard to watch. They both had some lovely words for him though.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Seattle Seahawks vs. Denver Broncos - Super Bowl XLVIII: DUD


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

The HBK/HHH Summerslam 2002 street fight is still freakin amzing! 5 star match for me!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Mysterio/Ziggler Summerslam 09 - **** Very, very fun athletic match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SmackDown 1/31 thoughts:

This was the best episode of weekly WWE programming I've seen for a while. Granted I haven't been watching many full shows but I doubt there have been any as enjoyable as this from top to bottom what with Raw being 3 hours and thus guaranteeing at least an hour of garbage. Good promos from The Shield and the Wyatts to go along with three strong matches, namely Cesaro/Ziggler, Christian/Swagger and The Shield v Bryan, Sheamus and Mysterio. None of them were good enough to make my best matches of 2014 list but all of them were worth watching. The 6 man tag was the pick of the bunch. Sheamus hasn't missed a beat since returning and Reigns continues to look like a beast. The Shield's run has been amazing and I'm as bummed as the next guy that it's coming to its end but I'm so down for seeing them in regular singles action. Looking forward to what will most likely be their last hurrah as a trio against the Wyatt fam at EC. The one match on the show I really didn't want to watch was Kofi/Sandow and they kept that short so that's another positive. I kind of doubt WWE can top 2013 in terms of the match on quality on TV. They're heading in the right direction with shows like this though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Why thet hate for Eddie/Angle? ***1/2 for it, very good match


Oh man. Didn't think it was possible.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Eddie and Kurt are my two favorites all-time, but that match physically pains me.

With football season being over, I guess I should get myself excited about the current product (which is kinda hard, even with an EC event that should be decent at the very least).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We hope so. Back to the same topic of last night and that's wondering if I should get my hopes up for the two signed matches. Pretty sure the six man will work. Their consistency is strong enough to have no worries. The chamber; yeah, not gonna be happy until I see it. The obvious note here is how well will Cesaro be able to be in it. No reason to put him in w/o the mentality to let him shine. I'm asking for logic here so shit. I'm probably out of luck.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Based on the RAW preview, Batista and Del Rio's mini-feud will continue, but I'm not so sure what Del Rio could get out of Big Dave. Big E will probably have a crappy match for the IC title, the New Age Outlaws are gonna be in the tag title match, and there'll be a diva's match...

So time to hope that the two main events deliver. I'll probably end up getting my hopes up (and possibly ordering).


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> SmackDown 1/31 thoughts:
> 
> This was the best episode of weekly WWE programming I've seen for a while. Granted I haven't been watching many full shows but I doubt there have been any as enjoyable as this from top to bottom what with Raw being 3 hours and thus guaranteeing at least an hour of garbage. Good promos from The Shield and the Wyatts to go along with three strong matches, namely Cesaro/Ziggler, Christian/Swagger and The Shield v Bryan, Sheamus and Mysterio. None of them were good enough to make my best matches of 2014 list but all of them were worth watching. The 6 man tag was the pick of the bunch. Sheamus hasn't missed a beat since returning and Reigns continues to look like a beast. The Shield's run has been amazing and I'm as bummed as the next guy that it's coming to its end but I'm so down for seeing them in regular singles action. Looking forward to what will most likely be their last hurrah as a trio against the Wyatt fam at EC. The one match on the show I really didn't want to watch was Kofi/Sandow and they kept that short so that's another positive. I kind of doubt WWE can top 2013 in terms of the match on quality on TV. They're heading in the right direction with shows like this though.


Sheamus...I agree. :clap I still don't think he should go right into the chamber right off an injury. But he's only adding some good star power to the match. Chamber is loaded this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. All the other elements of the card are looking to doom any other interest. Crummy champions & crummy focus on Batista isn't appealing. Bad enough when quality gets put into play. Sheesh. All their eggs in one basket for the filler show doesn't surprise me. It just tells you how bad the company is atm when a large portion of the company isn't worth watching.

Goldust being lumped w/Outlaws has halted his strong momentum since being back. </3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Hitman could you upload Cena vs Jericho @ SVS 08?


*John Cena vs Chris Jericho - WWE Survivor Series 2008*

'World Heavyweight Championship Match'

x1b0ua9


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Genius match.

For those that worship Chris Jericho and want to put over his work, that's the match a lot should use as "go-to" material for their case.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Team Bischoff vs Team Austin SS 2003 is overrated imo, never saw Shawn's performance as GOAT worthy or even merely great in a babyface sense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the match as a whole that I dig; opposed to one man's specific performance. The fast paced work was all really nicely done and there was an excitement & drama built upon every elimination. Super well done in that regard. It felt huge. Oddly enough it didn't close the show, when it probably should have.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ecw 2009-10, wcw 1999 ppv, nitro 1996 

what should i watch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Almost tempted to say the Nitro, but go w/EC-DUB b/c it has Christian and that tons of fun roster.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

thing is, ive seen wcw multiple times, ive never seen the ecw 2009-10 stuff


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Go with ECW. I did and it was amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ECW wins it all here. Christian got great matches out of Ezekial Jackson. GREAT.

Plus the roster has Regal & Goldust _(plus early blooming Sheamus for a spell)_ Win.

Cal, did you do a write up or have an opinion off the top of your head about the lengthy Swagger vs Tatsu match in late '09?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

This one?



Spoiler: match



Jack Swagger Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 22/12/2009

Poor Swagger. He comes back for the Homecoming tournament and you gotta think he's thinking "PLEASE DON'T LET ME LEAVE" because at the time he was going absolutely NOWHERE on Raw lol. He ends up with a random WHC run in 2010 and ECW dies in Feb, but still .

Swaggie out-classes Yoshi early on with his wrestling skills on the mat, and combines that with some big clubbing blows too. Yoshi can't get anything together until he counters a Gutwrench powerbomb and goes for a huge kick, and even though Swagger avoids it he looks like his life just flashed before his eyes!!!

Commercial break, and we come back to Swagger destroying Yoshi again lol, and he's doing it really well! The mid-section is the target here, setting up well for the Gutwrench. Swagger is cocky as fuck, doing pressups in the middle of his offence. I miss Swagger. He's looking better these days teaming with Cesaro but Cesaro needs to be singles and hell so does Swagger.

Swagger managing to avoid those big kicks of Tatsu make him look BOSS, but as the match goes on he can't avoid them any longer and Yoshi begins to make his comeback!

But even with Yoshi landing some blows, any time he goes for a finishing blow Swagger sees it coming and avoids it time and time again. He really looks like the Veteran in the match despite the fact Yoshi isn't much newer than Swagger, but being a former ECW champ Swagger IS the more experienced wrestler in the match.

OH MAN, that near fall from the clothesline to the BACK of Yoshi's head. OKLAHOMA STAMPEDE!!!

Swagger spends too much time arguing with the referee over a 2 count... and Yoshi finally lands that big kick and he picks up the win! DAMN, Yoshi got put over HUGE on ECW in 09. He beat Regal about 5 times including tags, had an incredibly competitive match with Christian for the ECW title and now he's beaten Swagger. And then he disappeared.

Match was really good! Made me miss ECW Swagger though .

Rating: ***


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Anyone happen to have a link to that Tatsu/Swagger match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems my John Cena vs Chris Jericho - WWE Survivor Series 2008 upload was removed already.  Sorry Smitty.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Smitty, that match is on the History of the WHC set, a set you should absolutely own anyway as the documentary is really good and the match selection is fabulous, (Taker/Angle NWO, Vader/Steamboat, Vader/Simmons, Flair/Sting GAB, Taker/Batista/Edge Armageddon, Mysterio/Orton SD, Jericho/Cena SVS, etc)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's it. Haven't seen it in a long time; got curious if it was as good as I remember. Sounds like it is. Kind of match that shows how bossy Swagger can be. I got to go search it out. Yoshi Tatsu was booked like a stud on ECW. Hard to believe it literally ended in a flash. Who put him on RAW? Death bell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If you can't find it, let me know and I'll upload it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Aww man was gonna watch it when I got home 


Hopefully the whc set makes it on the network 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*Finally done with Spring Stampede '99 :side: Benoit/Malenko versus Saturn/Raven was certainly the MOTN. Guerrera/Blitzkrieg and Mystero/Kidman were pretty good too, and the Hardcore match between Bam Bam and Sandman had its moments too. And as far as the main-event goes, I'm a DDP fan, so :mark: 

And btw, can anyone tell me what was the deal with Hogan leaving the main-event halfway through with a kayfabe injury? Did anything happen out of it or was it just another tactic to avoid a direct loss?

*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5jElBgWfT5MR05lAkg

Swagger/Yoshi ECW 09.


----------



## L-E-S-S-T-H-A-N (Feb 3, 2014)

Why can't I find a torrent of the No Mercy 2002 (Brock vs Taker) anywhereeee.

I need this bastard in HD for the build up pre-mania.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

L-E-S-S-T-H-A-N said:


> Why can't I find a torrent of the No Mercy 2002 (Brock vs Taker) anywhereeee.
> 
> I need this bastard in HD for the build up pre-mania.







*Not HD, but a good print nonetheless.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Timeline of WCW 1993 with Vader is released tonight :mark:.

:lmao watching the ECW doc, and yeah, it's still great and all, but I do laugh at how they try to make everything they did seem like a big deal. The Dreamer/Sandman cane match for example. Dreamer talks about how emotional it was and that Sandman's lip was quivering because he knew he was part of this huge moment... then they show the video clip of it and the entire bingo hall (like, 300 people or something? ) are silent and don't give a fuck :lmao. Or when Sandman's kid joins Raven and Sandman is crying and Heyman talks about how emotional it was... then they show the footage and fans are laughing and smiling at him and not giving a fuck :lmao.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So who all thinks Daniel Bryan will be the first guy eliminated just so Triple H can be a dick to all of us again haha.

But for real I can't wait for that Shield/Wyatts COLLISION.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar to attack Bryan on his way into the chamber, replaces him. HHH masturbates to the crowd reaction.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I like the Lesnar part, but it doesn't really matter since the match is gonna come down to Cena/Orton again.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I like the Lesnar part, but it doesn't really matter since the match is gonna come down to Cena/Orton again.




Dear god no, the ending would be ridiculously obvious.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shield/Wyatt six man tag elimination chamber would be amazing.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Dear god no, the ending would be ridiculously obvious.


The ending is already ridiculously obvious, Orton is clearly gonna win.



> Shield/Wyatt six man tag elimination chamber would be amazing.


Mind blown.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could I get Eddie G recommendations from 97-98 ?

besides the rey and benoit matches


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> :mark: Timeline of WCW 1993 with Vader is released tonight :mark:.


:mark: Ill have to try and grab a copy as i can't do torrents.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

It definitely won't be obvious if Lesnar is in the match, could see him taking the title or Undertaker appearing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Highly doubt Brock or Taker appearing at EC TBH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Christian will be the first one eliminated in the Chamber (but that's if he's even in the match, there's been rumors of taking him out and replacing him with someone else). I can see WWE giving Bryan a really good showing in the match, but ultimately he won't win it. Both the Chamber match and The Shield vs The Wyatt Family I'm looking forward to though. :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

If Brock were to win the chamber match I'd probably have a heart attack.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The chamber should come down to Orton and Bryan, it seems like Bryan is going to pick up the win and then Trips comes out and screws him for the last time. Orton retains and the next night on Raw Bryan loses his shit and challenges Hunter to a match at Wrestlemania. That's how I'd book it. I'd also like to see Lesnar attack Christian and take his spot in the match but I have no idea how to go about eliminating him. Maybe do what they did to Cena a few years back where he literally takes 5 finishers in a row and that's what outs him? My main problem is that putting Lesnar in the match should mean that he wins it but I can't see that happening. Oh God who the fucks knows but I swear this RTWM is already insane and it has barely even started yet.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I feel like Christian is a sitting duck to be that guy to get attacked. If not him, I could Cesaro getting attacked and maybe sparking a Cesaro face turn. Either way, I think Lesnar gets in.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's discouraging to hear all this negative feedback that might happen to Christian & Cesaro


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

With Christian just returning I think they'd have someone take out Cesaro instead. Either Lesnar or Kane.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Brock facing Taker - he won't be in the match and they might have him surprise hi-jack the main event & destroy everybody instead because he is pist off

Brock facing Batista or triple threat with Orton - he finds a way in the match or comes in after Orton retains and somehow turns into a 1 on 1 title match that ends in him being champion


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> It's discouraging to hear all this negative feedback that might happen to Christian & Cesaro


Right?! I actually would love to see them encounter guys like Bryan and Cena in the chamber.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My jimmies would definitely be rustled if WWE ends up fucking with the Chamber match (unless it results in Bork getting in).

And apparently Extreme Rules won't be in Seattle. Damn rumors :side:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

*No Way Out 2008 Elimination Chamber Match #6 and #7 (HHH vs Chris Jericho vs JBL vs HBK vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga) / (MVP vs Batista vs Finlay vs Khali vs Big Daddy V vs Undertaker)
*
RAW one had much more starpower but I felt like the eliminations came too fast (I think like three guys were eliminated in 1-2 minutes without much of a buildup). It was still fun, though. I couldn't care less about anyone but Taker in the Smackdown EC match, so I was glad he actually won.

The RAW one is still worse though.

So far:

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T) 
3. No Way Out 2008 (HHH vs Chris Jericho vs JBL vs HBK vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga)V
4. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)
5. No Way Out 2008 (MVP vs Batista vs Finlay vs Khali vs Big Daddy V vs Undertaker)
6. December to Dismember 2006 (Big Show vs Test vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Bobby Lashley vs Hardcore Holly)
7. New Year's Revolution 2006 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)

Still like 9 to go, oh well.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Brye said:


> Right?! I actually would love to see them encounter guys like Bryan and Cena in the chamber.


Don't put people in the match if your not gonna do anything with them, it makes no sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match has FINLAY in it. That's someone other than Undertaker to care about.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Chamber match has great potential, with Cesaro, Christian, and Bryan all in it. 

I'll just hope Bryan comes away with the win. One way to potentially save WM. Likely not going to watch Raw tonight, anyway. Too disgruntled with the product. I may read the results, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> *No Way Out 2008 Elimination Chamber Match #6 and #7 (HHH vs Chris Jericho vs JBL vs HBK vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga) / (MVP vs Batista vs Finlay vs Khali vs Big Daddy V vs Undertaker)
> *
> RAW one had much more starpower but I felt like the eliminations came too fast (I think like three guys were eliminated in 1-2 minutes without much of a buildup). It was still fun, though. I couldn't care less about anyone but Taker in the Smackdown EC match, so I was glad he actually won.
> 
> ...


FINLAY MAN

gonna watch that Tatsu/Swagger match


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Anyone have their list of their Top 5 Punk matches in WWE?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

1: vs Cena MITB
2: vs Lesnar SS 
3: vs Bryan OTL
4: vs Taker WM 
5: vs Jericho WM


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

My list(torn on No. 5):

1: vs Cena MITB '11
2: vs Taker WM 29
3: vs Lesnar SS '13
4: vs Bryan OTL 2012
5: vs Mysterio Extreme Rules 2010


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I prefer the OTL match vs Rey TBH 

Swagger vs Yoshi was fun, *** for it


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> The chamber should come down to Orton and Bryan, it seems like Bryan is going to pick up the win and then Trips comes out and screws him for the last time. Orton retains and the next night on Raw Bryan loses his shit and challenges Hunter to a match at Wrestlemania. That's how I'd book it. I'd also like to see Lesnar attack Christian and take his spot in the match but I have no idea how to go about eliminating him. Maybe do what they did to Cena a few years back where he literally takes 5 finishers in a row and that's what outs him? My main problem is that putting Lesnar in the match should mean that he wins it but I can't see that happening. Oh God who the fucks knows but I swear this RTWM is already insane and it has barely even started yet.


I was clamoring for Hunter to interfere in at least one of the Orton/Bryan main events back in the fall as part of his evil heel character developing, but it never happened. Now I'm clamoring for the proverbial straw to break the camel's back for Bryan to go nuts on Hunter and demand the Mania match. 

The booking of Brock has been super strange since the Rumble. Heyman announces that Brock is going after the title, Hunter (the guy who brought Brock back) denies him the title shot and Brock attacks the FACE tag team, the guys that Hunter didn't want back in the fall in the first place. 

They should have just saved Brock's return for after the Rumble and done everything they did for the Chamber, then the night after the Chamber, Taker returns and the Mania match is set. The only good result for Brock getting in the chamber is him winning, because let's face it, Brock in a cage shouldn't lose, especially in 2014. 

I really don't know anything anymore.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS said:


> Could I get Eddie G recommendations from 97-98 ?
> 
> besides the rey and benoit matches


Don't worry SKINS, I'll unberry you. :berried

vs. Jericho - Fall Brawl 1997
vs. Jericho Clash Of The Champions 35 
vs. Jericho - Superbrawl 1997
vs. Malenko Uncensored 1997
vs. Malenko - Starrcade 1997
vs. Billy Kidman - Starrcade 1998 (I'm personally not a fan but a few of my friends are)

w/ Chavo vs. Malenko and Benoit (YEAH suggested this I believe, it's good)
w/ Jericho vs. Faces of Fear
vs. Alex Wright (there's one from 95 which is the better, IMO, but theres also one from Nitro in 98 that's good)

He had a few matches vs. Ultimo Dragon, I don't personally like them that much, but it's Eddie Guerrero so there's no harm in watching. 

Is it safe to say Eddie is one of Jericho's best opponents? IMO his best stuff in WCW was vs. Eddie and I can't think of many off the top of my head that Jericho feuded with in the WWF/E that would overtake Guerrero? The Rock and Benoit, thats about it?

_________________________________________________

Aaaaaanywho, I know some people don't like watching matches on the tinterwebs at all, let alone in parts. I couldn't find this match in full, but my searching skills suck, so I uploaded it in one part~!.

*Arn Anderson vs. Barry Windham - 2/3 Falls - WCW Saturday Night 6/6/92
*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1b20rs_92-06-06-barry-windham-vs-arn-anderson-2-out-of-3-falls-wcw-saturday-night


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Could I get Eddie G recommendations from 97-98 ?
> 
> besides the rey and benoit matches



I don't say this about many people, but you can literally check out ANYTHING from Eddie in 1997 and it will be great. Start with Starrcade against Malenko and just keep going, against Jericho at SuperBrawl and again at Fall Brawl. MAYBE the only match I'd skip is the Ladder match with Syxx (Xpac) because it's just not up to Eddies lofty standards.

For 1998 check out matches vs Ultimo Dragon, Kidman, and the GAB match vs Chavo (yes it's Chavo but it's still good)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting Unforgiven 2004 now, haven't seen anything from this event before


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Starting Unforgiven 2004 now, haven't seen anything from this event before


It's a 50/50 show in my opinion.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Benoit/Regal vs. Evolution is probably the best opener of the PPV year unless I'm forgetting something, fantastic match
You use the CAL scale, right? Don't NO Trish/Victoria. It may not be amazing, but it doesn't warrant a minus point
However, NO Tomko/Richards. I like both guys, Tomko coz he's got one of the best looks ever and Richards can be decent, but this was minging
Jericho/Christian is probably the worst of their series
Can't remember shit from Kane/HBK or La Resistance/Rhyjiri matches, but the former sounds decent on paper and I wouldn't put it past Rhyno and Tajiri to carry that WOAT team to a half decent matcj
I haven't seen Orton/HHH in like, two years but I didn't think it was anything special. It's decent but I personally wouldn't label it good.

I'm probably a bit overcritical with the show, but I'm not as much of a fan of 04 as most others.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Benoit/Regal vs. Evolution is probably the best opener of the PPV year unless I'm forgetting something, fantastic match
> You use the CAL scale, right? Don't NO Trish/Victoria. It may not be amazing, but it doesn't warrant a minus point
> However, NO Tomko/Richards. I like both guys, Tomko coz he's got one of the best looks ever and Richards can be decent, but this was minging
> Jericho/Christian is probably the worst of their series
> ...




Kane/HBK isn't bad at all actually, I remember watching it on Kane's set a few months back and thinking it was very decent, I think I gave it ***1/2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Flux said:


> Benoit/Regal vs. Evolution is probably the best opener of the PPV year unless I'm forgetting something, fantastic match
> You use the CAL scale, right? Don't NO Trish/Victoria. It may not be amazing, but it doesn't warrant a minus point
> However, NO Tomko/Richards. I like both guys, Tomko coz he's got one of the best looks ever and Richards can be decent, but this was minging
> Jericho/Christian is probably the worst of their series
> ...


I agree with what you say about the womens match & Christian/Jericho (Y)

Kane/HBK was MOTN for me & the Tag Titles match really sucked because La Resistance is awful.

I thought the main event was incredibly boring, those 2 have NO chemistry.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

William Murderface said:


> I thought the main event was incredibly boring, those 2 have NO chemistry.


Unless it's a LMS and Randal doesn't break his collarbone rton2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks guys (Y)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> Unless it's a LMS and Randal doesn't break his collarbone rton2


I forget about that LMS match, probably because I've only seen it once haha & your right about the ONS match also.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Starting Unforgiven 2004 now, haven't seen anything from this event before


That PPV is shite. The main event is long and boring. HHH continues to hog the spot light and buries Randy Orton completely.



The ladder match was good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Anyone have their list of their Top 5 Punk matches in WWE?





Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION



Top 50 WWE Matches of CM Punk

*******
1. CM Punk vs John Cena – MITB ’11
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – OTL ‘12
*****3/4*
3. CM Punk vs John Cena – Raw 2/25/13
4. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar – Summerslam ‘13
*****1/2*
5. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – SD 8/25/09
6. CM Punk vs Undertaker – WM 29
7. CM Punk vs Mark Henry – Raw 4/2/12
8. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – WM 28
9. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – Summerslam ‘09
*****1/4*
10. CM Punk vs John Morrison – ECW 9/4/07
11. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Capitol Punishment ‘11
12. CM Punk vs John Cena – Night Of Champions ‘12
13. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 6/26/09
14. CM Punk vs Mark Henry – SD 4/15/2012
15. CM Punk vs Undertaker – SD 9/7/10
******
16. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 7/17/09
17. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – SD 2/12/10
18. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – Night Of Champions ‘09
19. CM Punk vs John Cena – Summerslam ‘11
20. CM Punk vs William Regal – Raw 1/19/09
21. CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler – Royal Rumble ‘12
22. CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio – Survivor Series ‘11
23. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Over The Limit ‘10
24. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – SD 2/21/12
25. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Extreme Rules ‘12
26. CM Punk vs Sheamus – Main Event 10/3/12
****3/4*
27. CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield – Raw 11/11/13
28. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 7/27/09
29. CM Punk vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy – Raw 6/15/09
30. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy – The Bash ‘09
****1/2*
31. CM Punk vs John Morrison – ECW 8/7/07
32. CM Punk vs Edge – SD 4/25/08
33. CM Punk vs Seth Rollins – Raw 12/30/13
34. CM Punk vs Umaga – Judgment Day ‘09
35. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Extreme Rules ‘10
36. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan – MITB ‘12
37. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio – Raw 6/20/11
38. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Raw 12/22/08
39. CM Punk vs Miz vs Alberto Del Rio – TLC ‘11
40. CM Punk vs Ryback – Raw 1/7/13
41. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho – Raw 2/4/13
42. CM Punk vs Randy Orton – Extreme Rules ‘11
43. CM Punk vs John Morrison – SD 8/14/09
44. CM Punk vs Triple H – Night Of Champions ‘11
45. CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs Erick Rowan & Luke Harper – Survivor Series ‘13
46. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane – No Way Out ‘12
47. CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio – Armageddon ‘08
48. CM Punk vs Matt Hardy- SD 9/1/09
49. CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose – Raw 12/9/13
50. CM Punk vs John Cena - Raw 8/22/11


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I forget about that LMS match, probably because I've only seen it once haha & your right about the ONS match also.


Two LMS matches between these guys were great. The Raw match (6/2009) isn't on the level of the No Mercy match, but still very good.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Two LMS matches between these guys were great. The Raw match (6/2009) isn't on the level of the No Mercy match, but still very good.


It's too bad they couldn't bring that chemistry to WrestleMania 25 :lol

I think I'm gonna be watching NYR 2005 or No Surrender 2005 here in a bit


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton and Hunter have had a bunch of good non-gimmick matches but nothing reaches great level unless it's No Mercy last man standing.

And the talk of BORK possibly being added to the Mania main event has me :mark:.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Can someone tell me on how many PPV Christian appeared between 2012 and 2013?

All I can remember for now is the Alberto Del Rio SummerSlam 2013 match.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Brye said:


> Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. :hmm:

Will have to check out Punk vs Morrison ECW 9/4/07 and Punk VS Regal Raw 1/19/09, again, later today.

Punk VS Sheamus @ Main Event making your list is :agree:. Underrated match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Can someone tell me on how many PPV Christian appeared between 2012 and 2013?
> 
> All I can remember for now is the Alberto Del Rio SummerSlam 2013 match.


Over The Limit '12, No Way Out '12, and Money In The Bank and SummerSlam last year are all I think (didn't check because I'm too lazy ).

EDIT: I think he was in MITB '12 too (STILL NOT GONNA CHECK).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> It's too bad they couldn't bring that chemistry to WrestleMania 25 :lol
> 
> I think I'm gonna be watching NYR 2005 or No Surrender 2005 here in a bit


NYR 05 undercard :allen1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For anyone that hasn't experienced the goodness that is Jericho/Malenko Nitro 7/27/98 I STRONGLY urge you to make it a priority. Good grief that was so much fun, the counters, the crowd, the finish. Brilliance.


Think I'm gonna check out the RVD/Orton match from Raw 2004 that C2D was pimping now.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RVD/Orton, if its the one is January is awesome


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Think I'm gonna check out the RVD/Orton match from Raw 2004 that C2D was pimping now.


Go for it. I've been pimping that match for an eternity. Not to spoil too much but when Orton gets busted open 1-2 minutes into it, he gets concussed and carries on adrenaline which I found impressive.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Could I get Eddie G recommendations from 97-98 ?
> 
> besides the rey and benoit matches


w/Jericho v. Faces of Fear 2/24/97
v. Malenko Uncensored 97, 6/28/97, 8/18/97, 9/18/97, [<those three are house shows], Starrcade 97
v. Jericho Fall Brawl 97
w/Jarrett v. Benoit/Mongo 8/18/97, 10/2/97
w/Jericho v. Malenko/Chavo 2/9/98
w/Jericho v. Malenko/Benoit 2/16/98, 11/29/98 [house show]
v. Ultimo Dragon Slamboree 98
v. Chavo GAB 98, 7/10/98 [house show]
v. Billy Kidman Starrcade 98
Eddie/Juvi v. Rey/Kidman 12/28/98

Cody when you asked me about Chavo matches I totally blanked on the Chavo/Eddie house show match. I forgot that even existed for like two years until looking back in the WCW poll things just now. I thought that match was *really* good.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Flux said:


> Benoit/Regal vs. Evolution is probably the best opener of the PPV year unless I'm forgetting something, fantastic match
> You use the CAL scale, right? Don't NO Trish/Victoria. It may not be amazing, but it doesn't warrant a minus point
> However, NO Tomko/Richards. I like both guys, Tomko coz he's got one of the best looks ever and Richards can be decent, but this was minging
> Jericho/Christian is probably the worst of their series
> ...


Jericho vs Christian/Trish from Backlash is the worst match in their series imo. I don't have a problem with their ladder match, it's just not as good as people perhaps expected a Jericho vs Christian ladder match to be, and I think that underwhelms people a bit when they watch it. 


Brye said:


> Spoiler: TOP 50 MATCHES oF CM PUNK (WWE EDITION
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark:

Did you do a top 50 because I said you should do a top 50 because it would be easier than a top 100?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> w/Jericho v. Faces of Fear 2/24/97
> v. Malenko Uncensored 97, 6/28/97, 8/18/97, 9/18/97, [<those three are house shows], Starrcade 97
> v. Jericho Fall Brawl 97
> w/Jarrett v. Benoit/Mongo 8/18/97, 10/2/97
> ...


(Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> (Y)




Surrreeee, just ignore me even though I recommended over half of those 

Don't forget Eddie/Jericho SuperBrawl. It's not on the level of Fall Brawl and the crowd is deader than shit but it's still very very good. Eddie wasn't a full blown heel yet which is pretty much the biggest reason it never reached the same highs as Fall Brawl.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Didn't forget SuperBrawl, I just don't like it. . Match didn't hold up for me at all (used to think it was great). Thought it was boring as hell and run of the mill, generic chain wrestling. At least it's not as bad as the garbage ladder match with Waltman.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Surrreeee, just ignore me even though I recommended over half of those
> 
> Don't forget Eddie/Jericho SuperBrawl. It's not on the level of Fall Brawl and the crowd is deader than shit but it's still very very good. Eddie wasn't a full blown heel yet which is pretty much the biggest reason it never reached the same highs as Fall Brawl.


lol I didnt even your post just saw Yeah's and left 

I watched a good eddie/ddp worldwide match from 96 earlier


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eddie has some cool stuff in 96 with WCW as well. v. Luger, v. Flair x2, v. Regal, v. Psicosis


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Randy Orton vs RVD Raw Jan. 2004 ***3/4

Outside of Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle, I think Randy Orton "got" wrestling faster than just about anyone ever. Funny how Kurt managed to "forget" and Randy has recently chosen to "ignore" what wrestling is supposed to be. Either way, you simply cannot deny that Orton was great in his Legend Killer Days. This match featured some great brawling, and I love what a cocky little shit Orton was at times. And also Orton's dropkicks are probably the prettiest out of any wrestler I've ever seen. How high he elevates and the way he manages to hang in the air shows pretty amazing athleticism. I've always thought that RVD's Rolling Thunder had to suck an awful lot to be the guy on the receiving end. Ugh. No real way to protect your opponent, although I prefer Finlay's version were he doesn't even bother with the "Rolling" he just gives you straight THUNDER. Ref bump and now I'm waiting on Foley to make his appearance. Lawler's been calling him a coward and them's fightin' words were I come from. Awww now Orton's ripping off Eddie! Does he have no shame? Hah, I'm sure Eddie wasn't the first to do it, but that does seem like gimmick infringement. Taker wouldn't be pleased. Counter to the RKO and Orton does that awesome "knockout shot" sell job were he just crumples, I love it. DAMN Orton does his threw the ropes DDT thing, but instead of lacing him through the middle ropes he puts RVD's legs on the TOP turnbuckle and just plants him for 1-2-3. This was just great, glad I watched, thanks for the recommendation C2D.


Yeah- you don't like SuperBrawl? I know it sucks that both guys were just nothing baby faces at this point, but you have to factor that in when weighing the merits of the match, atleast I try to. It's really hard to have a compelling match when you are just 2 no name babyfaces, so I thought they did a pretty damn good job of just going out there and "competing" with each other. Fall Brawl obviously shits all over this, but that was because Eddie was allowed to be the great heel Eddie and do whatever the fuck he wanted in the ring. I think I gave SuperBrawl ***1/2 on last watch, I'm curious to see if it'll hold up on a rewatch. 

SKINS- If you are going even earlier with Eddie, check out his Starrcade match with Ohtani. Pretty awesome stuff too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie/Jericho tag matches are getting talked about? It took a full year, but finally, my mission has been accomplished :vince$

Eddie/Waltman is kinda funny. Match sucked for the most part, but the way that Eddie won that match always makes me laugh. Oh, that Eddie. Almost nobody in this thread likes it, but I love the Eddie/Malenko Uncensored match. Not a match, but Skins check out this promo:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

You want some good Orton gems? THIS MATCH 

Randy Orton vs the Hurricane- January 2004

http://facedl.com/fvideo.php?f=eqqxauiwwneqa&randy-orton-vs-the-hurricane-2004


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Randy Orton vs RVD Raw Jan. 2004 ***3/4
> 
> Outside of Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle, I think Randy Orton "got" wrestling faster than just about anyone ever. Funny how Kurt managed to "forget" and Randy has recently chosen to "ignore" what wrestling is supposed to be. Either way, you simply cannot deny that Orton was great in his Legend Killer Days. This match featured some great brawling, and I love what a cocky little shit Orton was at times. And also Orton's dropkicks are probably the prettiest out of any wrestler I've ever seen. How high he elevates and the way he manages to hang in the air shows pretty amazing athleticism. I've always thought that RVD's Rolling Thunder had to suck an awful lot to be the guy on the receiving end. Ugh. No real way to protect your opponent, although I prefer Finlay's version were he doesn't even bother with the "Rolling" he just gives you straight THUNDER. Ref bump and now I'm waiting on Foley to make his appearance. Lawler's been calling him a coward and them's fightin' words were I come from. Awww now Orton's ripping off Eddie! Does he have no shame? Hah, I'm sure Eddie wasn't the first to do it, but that does seem like gimmick infringement. Taker wouldn't be pleased. Counter to the RKO and Orton does that awesome "knockout shot" sell job were he just crumples, I love it. DAMN Orton does his threw the ropes DDT thing, but instead of lacing him through the middle ropes he puts RVD's legs on the TOP turnbuckle and just plants him for 1-2-3. This was just great, glad I watched, thanks for the recommendation C2D.


Knew you'd like it. Orton in 2004 is consistent on Benoit/Eddie levels. About every match he had was fire. Sucks that he's so injury prone because that's the main reason why he took out so much from his arsenal and started wrestling such a grounded, safe, slow paced style. Also you're right, Randy's got the best dropkicks out of anyone I've seen. For how tall he is, it's incredibly athletic and he's even done the dropsault version of it to perfection. He's just so athletic, when Cena said on his DVD that he belonged in the ring from the very first day, he couldn't be more right.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Is Triple H:Thy Kingdom Come worth watching? It's on Netflix and I'm assuming someone here already watched it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Yeah- you don't like SuperBrawl? I know it sucks that both guys were just nothing baby faces at this point, but you have to factor that in when weighing the merits of the match, atleast I try to. It's really hard to have a compelling match when you are just 2 no name babyfaces, so I thought they did a pretty damn good job of just going out there and "competing" with each other. Fall Brawl obviously shits all over this, but that was because Eddie was allowed to be the great heel Eddie and do whatever the fuck he wanted in the ring. I think I gave SuperBrawl ***1/2 on last watch, I'm curious to see if it'll hold up on a rewatch.


Babyface v. babyface isn't something I almost ever want to see, but it can be done well. I don't really think it'd be that hard, I just thin they were doing really boring work with almost no emotion behind it (and these are two massively personality-filled guys). I guess there isn't anything terribly wrong with the match, but I had no fun while watching it. Felt exhibition-y and pre-planned, almost.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Almost nobody in this thread likes it, but I love the Eddie/Malenko Uncensored match.


That would have been an excellent match if Malenko didn't suck and no sell all of the leg work Eddie had done. You can say that about one or two ore of their matches, too. I still like the bulk of the match a lot, though.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> Is Triple H:Thy Kingdom Come worth watching? It's on Netflix and I'm assuming someone here already watched it.


i liked it, it was pretty decent, and I am not a huge HHH fan


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Babyface v. babyface isn't something I almost ever want to see, but it can be done well. I don't really think it'd be that hard, I just thin they were doing really boring work with almost no emotion behind it (and these are two massively personality-filled guys). I guess there isn't anything terribly wrong with the match, but I had no fun while watching it. Felt exhibition-y and pre-planned, almost.
> 
> 
> 
> That would have been an excellent match if Malenko didn't suck and no sell all of the leg work Eddie had done. You can say that about one or two ore of their matches, too. I still like the bulk of the match a lot, though.




I'm in your camp on babyface vs babyface contests. Sure there are some legitimately great matches with that sort of pairing (Michaels/Taker WM 25/26 immediately come to mind) but even with those, there are so many face/heel matches that don't get the 5-star praise those do that I would prefer watching any day of the week. Especially when a truly great heel is involved. I've always felt a really great heel can get the crowd behind even the weakest of baby faces. 

Did you ever get around to watching the "Big 3" matches from this years Summerslam? It pretty much proves this theory, Danielson/Cena was a GREAT match, but I honestly almost prefer watching Christian/ADR from the same event at this point. Let alone Lesnar/Punk, which has Brock at his absolute best and Punk giving the best face performance of his career by a wide margin. That's why I can't understand how some people prefer Danielson/Cena to it, there is just so much more energy in the best vs beast contest, the kind of energy you just don't get in a face vs face match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Orton vs Bryan tonight, lets hope they can pull out another MOTYC


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Cactus:* Is Finlay's THUNDER the move when he drops ass-first onto opponent's chest? I've always called that the SHIT DROP. :lol



SMITTY said:


> Orton vs Bryan tonight, lets hope they can pull out another MOTYC


Yep, if they put on a match as good as the one from 16/12, I think Orton deserves more respect around here.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *Cactus:* Is Finlay's THUNDER the move when he drops ass-first onto opponent's chest? I've always called that the SHIT DROP. :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, if they put on a match as good as the one from 16/12, I think Orton deserves more respect around here.


That's exactly what I was talking about in regards to Finlay, it just always looks positively brutal to take for his opponent, and I'm sure it is.

Alright, if Orton delivers another ***3/4+ match with Bryan (I gave the last one on 12/16/13 ****) then I promise not to talk shit about Orton until he has another crap match. 

Edit- I need to take a moment to point out just how much I hate Kofi Kingston. His ring gear right now might be the single most obnoxious outfit I've ever had the displeasure to witness. I'm all for more wrestlers wearing tights instead of trunks, but he just set us tights guys back about 10 years with this monstrosity.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Alright, if Orton delivers another ***3/4+ match with Bryan (I gave the last one on 12/16/13 ****) then I promise not to talk shit about Orton until *he has another crap match*.


There's a catch to this, crappy matches against the likes of Kofi and Miz shouldn't count.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Spoiler: weird stuff






























































I have too much free-time, l0l. Sorry if this is considered spam or something.

...& I know this is sad, l0l.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on that tag? thought it was decent considering Big E and KOFI were in it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> There's a catch to this, crappy matches against the likes of Kofi and Miz shouldn't count.



Ok fair enough, but he won't be facing a crap opponent for a while. He's going through Chamber opponents, so he's only gonna have quality guys from here on out 

I'm betting his best match out of all the Chamber opponents will be with none other than Captain Charisma himself, Christian. Outside of Benoit, Christian is easily my favorite opponent for Orton, they have FABULOUS chemistry. That is, if they are given the time and all.

Speaking of Mr. Christian, gosh it's great hearing his music hit and seeing him come out for TV matches again. WWE has a thin enough roster as it is, when guys like Christian, Henry, and Sheamus are missing, it can just KILL the match quality from week to week. Especially when Punk was mailing it in every week.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

King :lmao 

Dude needs to retire


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*** for Christian vs Swagger. Man I wish WWE would give them some more time, it's a freaking 3 hour show, right when they started really hitting their stride they have to go home. Maybe Christian isn't in good enough ring shape to handle a long match yet, he was off for an awfully long time.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Christian and Swagger had another good match (Y)

Love the chemistry between them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good Shield and Christian/Swagger match.

Incoming Cody moonsault from the top of the cage guys.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

You know, if someone would've told me that in the year 2014 that the New Age Outlaws would be the tag team champions, I would've laughed at them for a really long time.

Hopefully Cody and Goldust carry the NAOs to something decent.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Same, pretty good match, you know its good when I wanted it to go much longer

@ what you said b4 cjack, I have no problem w/ ppl saying cena/bryan was superior and Ive seen ppl call it MOTY before. I think its a case of punk/brock being soo fucking good that its was almost impossible to be better but cena/bryan is near 5 stuff too


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Gah. Silence for Cody and Goldust. How do you pop for the NEW AGE OUTLAWS more than them? 

Isn't MachoMadness at the show?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Incoming Cody moonsault from the top of the cage guys.


Would mark. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Ok fair enough, but he won't be facing a crap opponent for a while. He's going through Chamber opponents, so he's only gonna have quality guys from here on out
> 
> I'm betting his best match out of all the Chamber opponents will be with none other than Captain Charisma himself, Christian. Outside of Benoit, Christian is easily my favorite opponent for Orton, they have FABULOUS chemistry. That is, if they are given the time and all.
> 
> Speaking of Mr. Christian, gosh it's great hearing his music hit and seeing him come out for TV matches again. WWE has a thin enough roster as it is, when guys like Christian, Henry, and Sheamus are missing, it can just KILL the match quality from week to week. Especially when Punk was mailing it in every week.


Christian is my third fav after BENOIT and Undertaker.

lol @ WWE effectively erasing Punk tonight. :lmao They tried chanting his name and it didn't work out well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cage match should be fun, that would be 3/3 to start the night off

Meanwhile, just finished watching the SD EC match, ****1/4 for it, updated EC rankings, trying to finish the list before EC 2014 

*1: NYR 2005: ****3/4
2: SVS 2002: ****1/2
3: 2011 SD: ****1/4
4: EC 2010 SD: ****1/4
5: No way out 2008 RAW: ****1/4
6: No way out 2008 SD: ****
7: No way out 2009 RAW: ****
8: No way out 2009 SD: ***3/4
9: Summerslam 2003: ***3/4
10: EC 2010 RAW: ***1/2
11: NYR 2006: **1/2
12: December to Dismember: ***​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Did you ever get around to watching the "Big 3" matches from this years Summerslam? It pretty much proves this theory, Danielson/Cena was a GREAT match, but I honestly almost prefer watching Christian/ADR from the same event at this point. Let alone Lesnar/Punk, which has Brock at his absolute best and Punk giving the best face performance of his career by a wide margin. That's why I can't understand how some people prefer Danielson/Cena to it, there is just so much more energy in the best vs beast contest, the kind of energy you just don't get in a face vs face match.


Only Christian/Del Rio (aired before the power went out - power shut out literally as the bell was to ring for Punk/Lesnar) which I liked quite a bit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

We want Punk chants :banderas

Haven't seen Lesnar/Punk! Get on that ASAP


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Christian is my third fav after BENOIT and Undertaker.


Ahhh fuck I knew as soon as I said that you'd point out someone better, your right, Ortons best opponent was Benoit, then Taker, then Christian, in that order.



Yeah1993 said:


> Only Christian/Del Rio (aired before the power went out - power shut out literally as the bell was to ring for Punk/Lesnar) which I liked quite a bit.



Well, since you just wasted an hour of your life watching 5 Khali matches a few days ago, you should, you know, check out Lesnar/Punk and Cena/Danielson, because they are all sorts of great and the time just flys by watching either match. Plus Heyman's antics on the outside in the Punk match are just priceless. This one face he makes when he realizes Punk has him dead to rights is spectacular.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Cody did the moonsault! :mark: :mark: :mark:

Anyway, good match. They used the cage and I liked how Cody's risk-taking turned out to be their demise.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if Cody's legit injured because Road Dogg didn't catch him cleanly.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Yeah it looks like Cody might've landed on his arm wrong. It sucks if he's legitimately injured.

At least he had his big moment.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

All I know is that if Cody vs. Goldust doesn't happen because the fucking New Age Outlaws are wrestling in the year 2014, I will rage so hard.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Looks like they're giving Titus a push 

Hes facing Ryder


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Good for Titus. He has potential as a heel I'd love to see him just start running through people. He's infinitely more entertaining to me than Big E.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Haven't seen too many singles stuff from him tbh, so IDK if hes good or not


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is good stuff right here, dancing myself


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Emma/Summer Rae feud sounds good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Skins I bet your a great dancer 

Entertaining debut for her, hope she isn't a joke liker her partner


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So this is how they fill the time up when the GOAT leaves. No wonder I tolerated this product for the past couple years.

I want Titus to succeed, but deep down inside I know that he sucks at wrestling. Love him like I like Big E, but they both suck.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Christian is my third fav after BENOIT and Undertaker.
> 
> lol @ WWE effectively erasing Punk tonight. :lmao They tried chanting his name and it didn't work out well.


There's been a solid amount of those chants tonight, imo.

Marked for the Rhodes moonsault. Missed the opening tag. Any good?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol they have been Chanting Punk the entire night ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> There's been a solid amount of those chants tonight, imo.


imo? Hah, there's no opinions here.  At the time I wrote that post, the only chants were the brief 10 second ones in the opening segment which were killed by the legend! rton2

Spotlight Batista is back? :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not the entire night, but a number of times throughout.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

most* lol skipped both tag matches


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh boy, Del Rio. ~___~


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good God The Usos are more over than Batista.


----------



## FingerPokeOfDoom (Jan 31, 2014)

Got the "best of raw and smackdown 2013" DVD set, it's pretty entertaining! Had a good mix of matches and segments. Some questionable matches put in, but there is a lot of great moments and something for everyone. 

The cena/punk match :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brye said:


> There's been a solid amount of those chants tonight, imo.
> 
> Marked for the Rhodes moonsault. Missed the opening tag. Any good?


Opening tag was good. Not The Shield's best, but still good nonetheless.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Loved that Shield promo.

My roommate fucking hates Bray Wyatt. :lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

So hyped for Shield vs. Wyatts :mark:

It could have the potential to steal the show.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

They really need better looking divas.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They really need CM Punk.

The divas do, of course unk2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

So did Aksana just nearly kill Naomi?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bryan/Orton is gonna be a 30 minute match. Hopefully that doesn't detract for some people, because it's not a coincidence to me that people seem to enjoy their shorter matches more.

Bray Wyatt is so incredibly talented in ways. Those little segments between The Shield and The Wyatts have gotten me excited.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

their one match that is praised was the longest

Expecting a good match here


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> their one match that is praised was the longest
> 
> Expecting a good match here


Was it? I thought it was about twenty minutes with two commercial breaks. The breaks made it seem and feel shorter than the PPV matches, IMO.

Here we go...


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Umm, did the cage match happen already?

Also, did Cesaro or Swagger come out to perform anything tonight? Missed the first hour


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Swagger had a great match with Christian 

Lilolme the 12/16 match went nearly 30 mins iirc


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Very, very interesting way this match is being worked. Something tells me Trips interrupts this and complains that Bryan is exploiting an injury or something.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Wise for Orton to take this beating before EC? :ti


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Bryan going back to their usual shit for this match.  

lol at the Punk chants during it though. Wasn't expecting that during a Bryan match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Really? I kinda like this. A lot more structured rather than dull move trading.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

:lmao A gauntlet?

Cesaro and Sheamus are gonna fuck him up.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Really liked the main event tonight. The arm/leg workovers might've been a bit too similar to their match from December, but I thought they had enough new spots to make up. Good finishing stretch too.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Good match, agree, nice finish. Can't wait for the Cesaro and Sheamus one :banderas Orton and Sheamus have some nice chem, so glad to see that happening again.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Good Bryan vs Orton match

Had psychology, and story to it. And wasn't a 300 moves of Bryan fest.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought Bryan/Orton was a great match. Loved that Bryan got aggressive and relentlessly went after Orton's leg, probably venting his frustrations with Orton, the Royal Rumble snub, and the Authority and Orton did a great at selling the leg. I also enjoyed Orton's work on Bryan's shoulder and Bryan sold that great as well. Good back and forth action that could've gone either way and the finish was really nice with Bryan winning with the knee. It's a ****, maybe a ****1/4 match imo.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was an excellent TV main event. Wasn't really expecting that sort of clean Bryan win for a finish either.

Edit: Rest of the episode was below average. Six man tag was good. Christian/Swagger was alright and the cage tag was decent. Other than that, I've already forgotten about everything else. Aside from that incredibly flat Barrett segment. Lawler's 'comeback' was so weak.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Guess I'm alone in not thinking much of that Bryan/Orton match. It wasn't absolutely terrible like their PPV matches, but it's a far cry from the great match they had on Raw a couple of months ago. Match was dull as shit until the last few minutes. I'd probably go **1/2 on it. MOTN was The Shield tag, which wasn't anything special either.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I knew it would get mostly good feedback but I still don't care to see another Bryan/Orton match tonight


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Bryan vs. Orton, I missed the first 5 minutes but I think it gets ***3/4-****.

Decent night of action on RAW, WWE hasn't quite kept up their 2013 level of TV matches but there've been some solid ones. Hopefully they pick it up.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I had this Orton vs. Bryan match a notch below their post-TLC one. I'm slapping a **** rating on it.

Also have Christian vs. Swagger at ***, the six man tag at ***1/4 and the cage match at a **3/4, extra points for the moonsault off the cage alone. The match picked up when Cody came in too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tonight's main event blew away their last TV match. This one had so much more behind it + a clean finish. Top notch work by both.

Hard to believe this RAW gave us the worst cage match in a long time & a main event like this. Only in WWE.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I thought the cage match was fucking weird, but the final few moments saved it for me, imo. It's sort of like they remembered they can't be DQ'd in the cage. It should have been tornado style from the get go and they should have utilized the cage more. Cody seemed to be the only one to use it.

Have there been any matches from Main Event this year that anyone here could recommend? ***+?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I find it hard to believe that Bryan and Orton topped their December 2013 match. Looking forward to that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cody when you asked me about Chavo matches I totally blanked on the Chavo/Eddie house show match. I forgot that even existed for like two years until looking back in the WCW poll things just now. I thought that match was *really* good.


Links plz.



> I thought the cage match was fucking weird, but the final few moments saved it for me, imo. It's sort of like they remembered they can't be DQ'd in the cage. It should have been tornado style from the get go and they should have utilized the cage more. Cody seemed to be the only one to use it.
> 
> Have there been any matches from Main Event this year that anyone here could recommend? ***+?


Both Rhodes had a few good moments peppered throughout. But largely it was shit. I wasn't surprised.

Only match from Main Event worth checking out is Real Americans vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods from 1/8. Everything else has been mediocre or horrible. They put all the idiots on there now, so it's expected.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin, I know you don't do star ratings, but may I ask for an exception tonight? Curious how you would rate tonight's Bryan/Orton match, and the RAW one from December.

Also, what did you think of the Swagger/Christian match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say tonight's hit more in the "four star" area, and the one that followed TLC was "near four stars" in quality for me. So, the edge goes to tonight. I loved it.

Swagger vs Christian tonight was solid. It was sort of identical to their match that just happened on Smackdown, so that's the only negative next to it. Which means it isn't a drawback. Only not willing to put it over the SD affair simply b/c of chronological order. I think this makes sense. Basically if you enjoyed tonight's, watch the Smackdown match; where I felt it was a bit smoother. They'll always mesh together superbly.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Thanks! I have the Swagger/Christian SD match on DVR, so I'll check that out tomorrow. (Y)


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Orton/Bryan was my favorite match from those two since the no DQ match on RAW ****

Cody was an idiot for doing that spot when Road Dogg can't catch him without getting hurt himself. Match sucked because WWE doesn't know how to do cage matches and both teams are faces.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hoping I get another Sheamus singles match on Smackdown. Had fun w/the match vs Axel tonight. A fresh opponent for him too. Only match I think they had prior was their sleeper fun comedy bout from Saturday Morning Slam, of all shows, in early 2013. Wyatt's six man domination was good too.

Nah. The Outlaws are heels. WWE are just too stupid to remember their own track record. :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can I skip Raw and just wait for Orton/Bryan to pop up on the net?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, certainly. The better choice, tbf.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought Bryan/Orton was decent, liked the earlier portions and then bryan aggressively attacking the leg of Orton.The leg work was pretty good, Orton did a good job selling it, could have sold a bit better but its whatevs, then the commercial takes place and then I thought the match suffered, they went back to their old formula that didnt work to me with all the Movez and then put it back on right track w/ the finish.

Would take the dec match over this


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. The Outlaws are heels. WWE are just too stupid to remember their own track record. :lmao


I know but for some reason Road Dogg insists on doing his schtick which makes the crowd not want to boo them. NAO hasn't done anything heelish since leaving Punk.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The use of having Danielson dictate the pace, then have Orton try his own following is what made it so interesting. It gave Danielson a chance to work out both great aspects - leading a match and being a terrific babyface to create immense sympathy. There wasn't even much of a "movez" portion here. Orton hit a t-bone suplex which had Danielson land on his hurt shoulder. Only thing around outside of anything more meticulous by either wrestler. There was the final stretch. That's normal. Things build to a heated conclusion and it all works out better than way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I preferred that Bryan lead in the match, and iirc the December one also ?, one of the major reasons there decent/good matches although I thought Battleground was ok as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> I know but for some reason Road Dogg insists on doing his schtick which makes the crowd not want to boo them. NAO hasn't done anything heelish since leaving Punk.


Teaming w/the Shield and beating down Punk all following counts. As for the rest, well, that's WWE's problems in a nutshell. Although NAO did that plenty while heels in the past and the fans still popped. It's bad enough they're letting 'em work full matches, but now they're not even using the proper dynamics to attempt heat.



SKINS said:


> Yea I preferred that Bryan lead in the match, and iirc the December one also ?, one of the major reasons there decent/good matches although I thought Battleground was ok as well


December match was more back and forth throughout iirc. Tonight's was more sustained trials by both in-between. Only PPV match I thought was "fine" was NOC. Other two were meh in their work provided and had screwy finishes to hurt the quality too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldust is such a goon during this Pillman feud. I refuse to ever watch his stuff in his second WCW stint or TNA. Summerslam 97 was killer. And Owen is king.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's your loss if you miss the Rat on a Pole match in early 2008.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I thought the match Swagger had with Christian on SD was a bit better. Pace was a lot nicer. Loving Cesaro's ego now. Arms crossed like a BOSS.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/6cbf0195ac9bdd406a38f91775494c94/tumblr_n0gi5wJSxZ1rsed7yo1_500.png


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Hate when a boring first two and a half hours makes me miss a good Main Event because I'm too burnt out by the time it arrives. Theoretically I have no problem with 3 hour RAWs if they can use that time effectively, but since this episode didn't draw me in at all I was left a little worn out by the end and just left RAW on in the background while I focused on my computer. I'll have to catch Bryan/Orton later then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unusual route atm. If they do split - Swagger the face and Cesaro the heel? Eh. We all know the better solution. Can't see Swagger working babyface.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro should definitely be the face if one of them has to turn. 

I hope they keep Zeb with him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the only option that feels right. Cesaro can work babyface; it writes itself.


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

HayleySabin said:


> Unusual route atm. If they do split - Swagger the face and Cesaro the heel? Eh. We all know the better solution. Can't see Swagger working babyface.


I think it'll be a swerve where Zeb ends up siding with Swagger and Cesaro is the face. Sort of like back on ECW with the Ruthless Roundtable and Regal siding with Big Zeek over Vlad being a swerve. (I could be remembering that wrong).

Sucks to see so many teams splitting going into Wrestlemania. It was frustrating hearing the commentary pimp the tag division as usual knowing that the Prime Time Players just split, and the Rhodes Brothers, Real Americans, and Shield all seem to be on their way to spitsville. Maybe there'll be some rebuilding to come, but its disappointing. Especially since the PTP and Real Americans are splitting without having ever won the tag titles.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hoping that's the route it goes. No reason to change Swagger when he's probably going to remain as a good midcard heel for the rest of his career, meanwhile Cesaro already has fans on his side, can work babyface no problem, and still has a chance to be used at a higher level within WWE. It all feels right if the split is going to occur. They're a great team; but def the union I would be in favor for splitting to have each work full time in singles.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Unusual route atm. If they do split - Swagger the face and Cesaro the heel? Eh. We all know the better solution. Can't see Swagger working babyface.


I can see Swagger "working" as a face, all Swagger would have to do is be the good guy and play up the USA gimmick. But turning face on Cesaro atm will definitely not work. It's like face Rio vs heel Ziggler just couldn't work at that moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I can see Swagger "working" as a face, all Swagger would have to do is be the good guy and play up the USA gimmick. But turning face on Cesaro atm will definitely not work. It's like face Rio vs heel Ziggler just couldn't work at that moment.


There's more too it than smiling at the fans. You know that. How could Swagger work? He's been a heel since day one. He's a cocky, self-righteous uber athlete who would seem to be better at drawing heat from fans by proxy of his in ring work, than winning fans over. He's never really made any come from behind moments in his matches for me to even picture how his work would assimilate under the babyface notion too. He's terrific at taking a gnarly stiff shot always square in the face to create that prime separation for a momentum shift. In both singles & tags. It doesn't seem natural to cheer Swagger as a babyface. The key being the final word. He's plenty easy to cheer/react for under his current role. That's kind of the point. _(if not counter-productive, considering my opinion on the guy as a fan)_


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Its funny because back when Cesaro was US champ and Swagger was injured I wanted so much for Swagger to return as a face and be the one to take the US title from Cesaro, since it made perfect sense. But a lot has changed since then and while I'd still like to see how American Hero babyface Swagger would work out especially since he's been heel his entire career, it makes a lot more sense for Cesaro to turn face and try to ride that momentum right now. Especially since as you say, he already has a portion of the fans on his side. 

I wonder who keeps "We The People" though? Its over as a chant with the crowd. But it wouldn't make any sense for Babyface Cesaro to keep it. American Hero face Swagger however... it would. Hmm..


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> There's more too it than smiling at the fans. You know that. How could Swagger work? He's been a heel since day one. He's a cocky, self-righteous uber athlete who would seem to be better at drawing heat from fans by proxy of his in ring work, than winning fans over. He's never really made any come from behind moments in his matches for me to even picture how his work would assimilate under the babyface notion too. He's terrific at taking a gnarly stiff shot always square in the face to create that prime separation for a momentum shift. In both singles & tags. It doesn't seem natural to cheer Swagger as a babyface. The key being the final word. He's plenty easy to cheer/react for under his current role. That's kind of the point. _(if not counter-productive, considering my opinion on the guy as a fan)_


The USA gimmick is one to easily cheer for. I think he would have been over as a face on both chances that had to debut it. On Cole, the night at that PPV, and on Cesaro during his run as US champ. Real American, USA chants, Profit. But yeah, the build has pointed too much in Cesaro's favor ever since his match with DB and the debut of the big swing.

The only thing that would have to work, is Swagger coming off as a genuine good guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the whole point. It's not who he's been on TV, so it feels like a stretch. Danielson from heel to face was easy b/c he was basically the same. Sheamus too. They keep what makes them "them". Swagger going for a full 180 doesn't seem likely. Del Rio did and that flopped, for example. Swagger already claims he loves America. Not sure how saying that against Zeb would ideally work wonders towards any significant success as a face.


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

If anything I think it could be easily said that the Real American's gimmick killed the potential for All American Babyface Swagger forever. Before the Real Americans Swagger's patriotism hadn't been so firmly attached to his heel character. The perfect chance was when Swagger was injured or taking time off or whatever it was and Cesaro was US champ. That was the time to try face Swagger. I don't think it can happen now. 

I remember once I had a little kid at work (Hollywood Video) come in with a wrestling T-Shirt. This was in 2009 or 10. I asked him who his favorite was, and on a T-Shirt containing Cena, Jeff Hardy, Triple H, and Rey Mysterio he picked Swagger. Why? Because he was an All American American. Cute as hell. But yeah the chance to capitalize on that as a character thing is probably lost forever.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I see what you're saying. It was the same with Alex Riley as well. Dude can still get over as a face even after being out of the ring for GOD knows how long. The dude was just naturally likable and the face run didn't need to be forced.



> If anything I think it could be easily said that the Real American's gimmick killed the potential for All American Babyface Swagger forever. Before the Real Americans Swagger's patriotism hadn't been so firmly attached to his heel character. The perfect chance was when Swagger was injured or taking time off or whatever it was and Cesaro was US champ. That was the time to try face Swagger. I don't think it can happen now.


Agreed. I would rather see Swagger have good matches and job than WWE attempt something at a completely wrong time and completely late on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Recently uploaded. Watch this NOW:

*Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko vs. Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff (2/3 Falls) (WCWSN 5/23/92)*

x1b4dcp

:mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He's not kidding. Should be watched immediately. Arguably a top ten WCW match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bobby Eaton vs Dustin Rhodes is basically said there. Who wouldn't watch it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well Raw was awful. In the sense that almost everything was so unappealing to me on paper I skipped through everything. Watched Swagger/Christian which was... ok at best. SD was better. Commentary was so awful during the match I could barely pay attention though... but I dod :lmao at the blue dot comment from JBL :lmao. Didn't bother with Bryan/Orton because... well it's Orton and my first instinct would be to skip everything he does, but I figured I'd at least wait to see what people on here thought of the match before I attempted it. I shall watch it later. I do like how WWE is putting Orton against all the chamber guys in the next few weeks (except for Cena... FFS STOP BOOKING THAT FUCKING MATCH YOU USELESS CUNTS). If there is any way to make Orton look half decent on the RTWM, it's putting him in the ring with workers far superior to him on a weekly basis .

Downloading 1993 Timeline with Vader :mark:. At least I'll be watching something wrestling related today that's good :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Downloading 1993 Timeline with Vader :mark:. At least I'll be watching something wrestling related today that's good :mark:.


I want it, i want it, i want it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You skipped the first Sheamus singles match since his return? 

Fake fan. </3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I skipped a Curtis Axel match. I'd have only watched it if it was Undertaker Vs Axel.

Watching the Vader timeline :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM XXX is always around the corner.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Perfect Streak comes to a Perfect End. I'd pay to see it :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> WrestlingDVDNews.com reports that WWE will be releasing a "The Best of Great American Bash" DVD and Blu-ray set this summer. No word yet on the North American release date but it will hit the UK on July 7th.


.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's already sounding better than all the other plans. Boom. That easy to trump WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Axel wasn't anything good anyway.

I'm gonna give Bryan/Orton a re-watch today. Seems everyone else loved it, and it could've been the show just killed my interest before it, and thus maybe I was just in the completely wrong mood to watch it (plus to be honest, I fell asleep once in the middle of it for a minute or two).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best of GAB? UNDERTAKER VS DUDLEY BOYS IN HD :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was released on Undertaker's MOST DEADLIEST MATCHES set already. They couldn't possibly do a repeat. 8*D

Yes. It really got put on a set highlighting the Undertaker. Gahhh


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Best of GAB? UNDERTAKER VS DUDLEY BOYS IN HD :mark:.


The first thing i thought of was WCW, i forgot about the WWE PPV's lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I immediately thought about how disappointing the match listing will be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> That was released on Undertaker's MOST DEADLIEST MATCHES set already. They couldn't possibly do a repeat. 8*D
> 
> Yes. It really got put on a set highlighting the Undertaker. Gahhh


I am aware of that, but it wasn't released on BLURAY before. BLURAY. HIGH DEFIMINITION. DAT PICTURE QUALITY.

I actually don't mind the match either . It isn't great, but I don't think it's truly horrible or anything.

EDDIE/REY AND EDDIE/JBL IN HD is what we should be getting excited about .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blinded again! It's dogshit. So much so, Undertaker had to kill his buddy to make amends for it.

I don't care for superb quality for matches I own as it is, so bleh. Plus, last thing I'd care about a GAB set having is WWE matches. Give me WCW only or gtfo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Had to go to sleep last night so didn't catch the Bryan/Orton match live. Just came home and first thing I did was watch it. I honestly think I prefer this to their December match. Quality work and they get a shitload of time. Seems like they have finally found the chemistry that their PPV matches were missing. I've gone from not wanting to see this match again for a while to getting excited about it whenever they announce it. Should be nice to see Orton work against his other chamber opponents although he does come across as a face in this situation with the odds stacked against him. Specially looking forward to Orton/Cesaro and Heel Orton/Sheamus (something they have never done before). ★★★★ for last night's main event.

But what in the fuck is up with Orton losing clean _again_? First he jobbed to Kofi of all people and never really got his retribution, now this. I was blinded to all this talk of him being booked horribly but I'm starting to see it now that they're making it more blatant. Oh well, I guess it wont matter as long as he wins the chamber match itself and goes on to headline WM as champion. But after he drops it to Batista, his heel run needs a fresh start from scratch.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Orton/Bryan and I liked that it had a very different dynamic to it. Better than all their PPV matches. I think I'm getting a little sick of the match-up though. We've seen it about 6 times on TV and 3 times on PPV in the last 8 months.

Probably my 2nd favorite behind that one they did right after a PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader timeline is ok. Not great, not awful. He tends to start talking about one thing... then goes off in another direction to try and make a point on the thing he's supposed to be talking about... but half the time it makes no sense in regards to what he was supposed to be talking about :lmao. Also, STOP FUCKING ABOUT WITH THE MIC YOU FAT TWAT . In the mood for some VADER matches now. Though the odds of me getting off my arse and grabbing my Vader comp are pretty slim.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Vader timeline is ok. Not great, not awful. He tends to start talking about one thing... then goes off in another direction to try and make a point on the thing he's supposed to be talking about... but half the time it makes no sense in regards to what he was supposed to be talking about :lmao. Also, STOP FUCKING ABOUT WITH THE MIC YOU FAT TWAT . In the mood for some VADER matches now. Though the odds of me getting off my arse and grabbing my *Vader comp* are pretty slim.


Still havn't watched it all yet.  Started it then just forgot, which i tend to do lol, but have been in the mood for some Vader lately so i may dig it up myself.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Vader timeline is ok. Not great, not awful. He tends to start talking about one thing... then goes off in another direction to try and make a point on the thing he's supposed to be talking about... but half the time it makes no sense in regards to what he was supposed to be talking about :lmao. Also, STOP FUCKING ABOUT WITH THE MIC YOU FAT TWAT . In the mood for some VADER matches now. Though the odds of me getting off my arse and grabbing my Vader comp are pretty slim.




Do you have to have XWT to get this Vader timeline? I don't care if it's nonsensical at times, I'm all for listening to big Leon in anyway, shape, or form. Seeing his face pop up on Foleys doc made me so happy I could hardly stand it. How in the fuck is Warrior inducted into the Hall of Fame and getting ANOTHER documentary when Vader has gotten neither? I know Leon was a bit of an asshole backstage at times, but if Warrior is getting inducted Vader absolutely should as well. Maybe he and Sting can induct each other :mark:

Then both he and Sting can get their own Documentary/Match sets :mark:

I'm not a big fan of Sting at all but I'd love to see a real documentary about hi,.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
Yeah, this was definitely good. Very good actually, at a level where I wouldn't disagree with anyone who thinks it was great. That said I don't think it compares favorably with their match from December. Now that was excellent. I appreciated the vast majority of what they did but it never really threatened to touch their previous match on a personal enjoyment level for me. Always been a fan of focused limb work and that was abundant here. Bryan working a lengthy, methodical control segment was a nice change of pace from the frenetic style we see in most of his matches these days and Orton's selling was on point. Really liked what he did before getting to the ropes to break the half crab. Sounded more like a laugh to me than anything else, almost as if to say 'fuck it, fuck this pain, I need to shake this off and get to the ropes NOW'. He kind of stopped selling when he got back on offense which bothered me a little but he went back to it towards the end of the match so I won't be too critical. Dug the 'one of these guys could get injured and that would suck going into the Chamber' theme that the commentators played up. Thought it added some extra meaning to the limb work and match as a whole. Finishing stretch was fine but it didn't feel like a match hitting its peak to me. Didn't care for the Kane run-in. Much preferred the end to the December match. All in all there was a lot to like and I'd certainly call it a very good match, borderline great. It's not a MOTYC though and I'll be disappointed if it has a place in my top 20 list come the end of the year. Oh shit, forgot to mention how much I liked Bryan throwing Orton into Michael Cole. That was super. So yeah, I liked it a lot, just not as much as some other people on here. LISTED



Spoiler: WWE best of 2014



1. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
2. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excuse to pimp one of my uploads


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Vader/Boss is awesome and rugged as anything. It's like West Side Story, only without that sissy singing and dancing in between the violence. Pure heavyweight slugfest done perfect, at the right length for things to progress nicely without going too long and incurring some downtime.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> The first thing i thought of was WCW, i forgot about the WWE PPV's lol.


I actually thought of how they'll do only half a disc of WCW and fill the rest with their stuff. Need to fill the 5 HHH match quota.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I would love to see this on that Raw: Off Air set if it was filmed:

Kurt Angle vs Owen Hart (Dark Match) 5-10-1999

http://wfigs.proboards.com/thread/82582


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

maybe be the only one who didnt think orton/bryan was great tbh thought their December match smoked it


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

So the list of PPVs to watch for the WWE Network is pretty stacked.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/every-pay-per-view-on-wwe-network-26179147


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thats just for the launch too :mark: 

The WCW shows are what intrigues me the most tbh


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Going to go watch bryan/wyatt for a second time


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll probably put on a WCW 1992 PPV first

Edit: thank god you changed that :ziggler1 sig skins


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So, it's official then they are really gonna hook subscribers up with 90% of all the pay per views in WWE/WCW/ECW history. That's fucking sick. I wonder if we will get some Nitro episodes....I'm definitely signing up. 


This company man, just when I thought I was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN *Godfather voice*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> So, it's official then they are really gonna hook subscribers up with 90% of all the pay per views in WWE/WCW/ECW history. That's fucking sick. I wonder if we will get some Nitro episodes....I'm definitely signing up.


I think they will add Nitro/Raw/Smackdown archives as time goes on, so to keep things fresh. Hope they're all up by the time it launches outside of the States.

:mark: for all those potentially uncensored 2004 shows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Jake's documentary tonight. Still incredible stuff. Highly recommend it to anyone. Looking forward to him going into the HOF this year, his wrestling career makes him worthy, and his current battle against his addiction which is appears to be winning for good this time around makes it such a huge moment for anyone who called themselves a Jake Roberts fan over the years. Definitely consider this one of the best documentaries ever released.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

The first things I'm going to watch whe WWE network launches are Wrestlemania XX Wrestlemania X and the 1st Wrestlemania
10 years, 20 years, 30 Years ago Wrestlemania 
WWE network is the best thing of WWE, we get to relieve those defining moments


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Watched Jake's documentary tonight. Still incredible stuff. Highly recommend it to anyone. Looking forward to him going into the HOF this year, his wrestling career makes him worthy, and his current battle against his addiction which is appears to be winning for good this time around makes it such a huge moment for anyone who called themselves a Jake Roberts fan over the years. Definitely consider this one of the best documentaries ever released.




It's also a huge moment for people like me who lost their way the same way Jake did. Seeing one of my favorite actors of all time (Phillip Seymour Hoffman) die this weekend from the same shit I was poisoning my body with for years makes it an even bigger deal that Jake is winning the battle for his freedom and getting his well deserved pat on the back. Jake EASILY could have been Phillip Seymour Hoffman, we could have heard in 2009 that Jake Roberts was found dead with a crack pipe still in his hand. DDP is a freaking saint for all he does.

Finally got around to watching the 2 matches Zepper uploaded.

The Bossman/Vader match really was all you guys were making it out to be. Off the top of my head I can't remember a better big man slug fest than this one, I loved the way Vader was bumping all over the place for Traylor, and I loved some of the counters Ray was doing to Vader (the scoop slams off the top rope? :mark Definitely worthy of all the praise that gets heaped on it, it's a way better version of Henry/Show Vengeance 2011, which sounds amazing because I think so highly of that Vengeance encounter.

The Steamboat/Dustin/Koloff vs Anderson/Zybysko/Eaton 2/3 Falls match might just be my new favorite tag match ever (the Canadian Stampede 10 Man currently holds that honor). I feel that strongly about it. It's CERTAINLY the best 6 man I've seen, it tops the Shield/Hell No Ryback TLC match. I think my favorite portion was either the Dustin/Eaton segment in the middle with Dustin getting in those "bionic" elbows, or the ending portion between Steamboat/Anderson. I even loved how they used Koloff in this match, it was very Reigns-esque in that they never exposed him too much and only allowed him to tag in to destroy people. Very solid looking offense from him, even if he looked a tad goofy in a rasta-colors singlet (I know they are Lithuania colors, but they sure as hell look Rasta to me). Heyman was great on the outside as usual, and I got my chuckle out of seeing just how high Zybysko managed to pull his trunks up. I'd love to know who started the fashion statement in wrestling of pulling your trunks up to your nips, Shawn Michaels and Jericho definitely kept it running into the mid to late 90's, but there had to be one guy in the beginning who was like "you know what? Having your trunks on your hips looks stupid, I'm gonna try and pull them up to my nipples and see how that works out :lmao"

Okay that last bit was off topic, but really, that 6 man tag was a perfect match. I think I might actually consider it a 5 star match.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Does anyone recognize this match? I want to watch the full match, but want to know if it is worthwhile, as their WCW match was a dud.






Also, what match was the best Orton-Bryan in your opinion, the June one, December, or the one this week?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Does anyone recognize this match? I want to watch the full match, but want to know if it is worthwhile, as their WCW match was a dud.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe that's the match where Bret won his first WWF Championship. I remember it being good but I haven't watched it in a long time.

When it comes to the best Orton/Bryan match, it's a close one between their December match and last night's match but I'm leaning towards last night's match as their best. From the psychology, the story, and the selling, this match was a real delight to watch. It started off at a slow pace but I actually liked it since I felt it told a story on how Bryan is getting more aggressive after all that he has been through post-Summerslam. Orton did a great job as well selling his injury and looking like a cold, calculating champion by viciously working on Bryan's shoulder. It also had good back and forth action so when it comes down to it, last night's match was their best match imo. I enjoyed their Summer series and the December match as well.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

*Two Man Power Trip vs. Benoit and Jericho*
First time watching this and Austin and HHH are mega heels. Literally do everything Heelish they can in a tag match. You got to give HHH some love for finishing the match hardly being able to walk though. Great match. *****1/2*

*Jericho vs. Benoit - Ladder Match *
That suicide dive into the chair shot is vicious, kind of makes you understand what happened to Benoit's brain in the end. Such a fluid match match, by far the best Ladder match I've seen. *****1/2*

*Lord Steven Regal vs. Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat - No DQ*
10 minutes of fun. They put on a 'wrestling' clinic. I need more Regal in my life. Ends in a no contest though because Paul Orndorff interferes, yet its a no DQ match. I don't know. ****1/4*


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

NotoriousTCG said:


> *Two Man Power Trip vs. Benoit and Jericho*
> *First time watching this and Austin and HHH are mega heels. Literally do everything Heelish they can in a tag match. You got to give HHH some love for finishing the match hardly being able to walk though. Great match.* *****1/2*
> 
> *Jericho vs. Benoit - Ladder Match *
> *That suicide dive into the chair shot is vicious, kind of makes you understand what happened to Benoit's brain in the end. Such a fluid match match, by far the best Ladder match I've seen.* *****1/2*


Those matches influenced my taste in wrestling. I'll review some matches in the near future.


----------



## BotchSpecialist (Feb 12, 2013)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> So the list of PPVs to watch for the WWE Network is pretty stacked.
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/inside/every-pay-per-view-on-wwe-network-26179147


Over the Edge (1999)

Really?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

BotchSpecialist said:


> Over the Edge (1999)
> 
> Really?


That is horrible, Vince should have more class. Probably wants media attention.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Or hes just trying to fufill a promise he made, ever WWE PPV EVER

If they edit correctly it should be fine


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

OK guys I need serious reviews about 2 questions!

Is the Fatal 4-Way PPV (2010) any good?

Do you like the series of matches between Kane and Undertaker in late 2010? how would you rate them?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> OK guys I need serious reviews about 2 questions!
> 
> Is the Fatal 4-Way PPV (2010) any good?
> 
> Do you like the series of matches between Kane and Undertaker in late 2010? how would you rate them?


Bourne/Jericho was good IIRC, rest is skippable as fuck.

Kane/Taker NOC match is a great brawl. HIAC is horrible. BA match is horrible.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Bourne/Jericho was good IIRC, rest is skippable as fuck.
> 
> Kane/Taker NOC match is a great brawl. HIAC is horrible. BA match is horrible.


thanks king cal. it was obviously A FLOP as a PPV cuz wwe never brought it back.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The problem with Bragging rights was the fact that it was placed right before svs


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Undertaker and Kane honestly don't have that good chemistry. They had four matches that I would call remotely good, and one of them (Inferno Match) was mainly because of the novelty of it. NoC 2010 match was good, but it went on for way too long and at some point, it turned into a generic Attitude Era punch-around-the-arena brawl. WM XIV match is very good. Their best match for me was probably their Smackdown 2008 match. Undertaker was in a serious zone that year. But their other matches are shit. In the later portion of 1998, they had one of the worst main event feuds ever. Holy shit, The Miz was more entertaining than them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that '08 Taker/Kane match. I'd agree that they don't have the best chemistry though. I'm not a huge fan of many of their matches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Kane vs Taker series:

WM 14: ****1/4
Inferno: ***
RAW 98: Need to rewatch 
SD 08: ***1/4
SS: **1/2
NOC 10: ***1/2
HIAC: *
Buried alive: *3/4

HIAC is bad, but still not as awful as HBK/HHH  very hit or miss. I loved Kanes chemistry with Orton and Edge the most. 

Surprised Kane vs Lesnar has NEVER happened. No doubt they'd have a good brawl back in the day.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not sure what my list for best Kane opponents are, but here goes:

Benoit:
Bad Blood 04: *****1/4* 
RAW 04: ****3/4*

Orton:
Wrestlemania XXVIII: *****
Extreme Rules 2012: ****3/4*
Smackdown 2012: *****

Finlay:
Summerslam 2007: ****1/4*
Belfast Brawl: ******

CM Punk:
ECW 08: ****1/2*
Smackdown 2012 (first match): *****
Smackdown 2012 (second match): ****3/4*
RAW 2012 (first match): *****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Spoiler: SmackDown



Bryan v Cesaro on SD this week



:mark:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Kane vs Taker series:
> 
> WM 14: ****1/4
> Inferno: ***
> ...


But I loved that match growing up...

Maybe I need to see it again, or we just agree to disagree.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Watched Hollywood Blondes vs Dos Hombres from Slamboree 93.. ends up being a cage match with tags as well  Pretty good, the simple stuff is done to perfection which is most of the time all you need. What is the story behind Dos Hombres tho? lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Shane Douglas couldn't be there because of....something, so they had I think Tom Zenk replace him. They wore masks to cover it up.

I hate that cage match. Piece of trash.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Any recs for some Hollywood blondes then?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch their matches against Bagwell and Scorpio.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Am I the only one who prefers the Kane/Orton WM match over any of their other matches together?

That match is becoming one of those "matches I have a borderline inexplicable love for." Not that it's an odd choice to like, because people seem to like it as well, but I _really_ like it now for some reason. And it's funny, because I was pretty lukewarm on it at first. I gave it ***, I think.

The other ones don't compare to me.

When Orton backs up for the punt :mark: + the ending caught me off guard + that drop toe hold FROMOUTTANOWHERE!

xdoomsayerx, I think that it was your post awhile back, that made me take another look at that Kane/Orton WM match. Didn't you rate it quite highly? What did you give it?


'skins, in case this thread gets buried under a sea of threads by the time you're on here, I want to make sure you see this thread:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1116809-new-dolph-ziggler-interview-comments-punk.html


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Watch their matches against Bagwell and Scorpio.






This one was freakin awesome, any better?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I enjoyed that Dolph interview. With the huge pop he got at the Rumble and somewhat increased TV time recently, I was hoping he'd get at least a mid card push until hearing about what WWE has planned for him. fpalm 

Maybe I should just go watch his match against Del Rio at Payback. :side:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

TPTB: "Hey, Dolph, we've got some good news for ya. We've got an idea for you!"

Dolph: "Great, what?!" ositivity

TPTB: "We're gonna put you in a tag team with Miz: 'the disgruntled angry guys.'"


:ti


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Disgruntled Angry Guys...FROM CLEVELAND! :vince$


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^I forgot that! You know the announcers are going to bring that up a million times.



PGSucks said:


> Maybe I should just go watch his match against Del Rio at Payback. :side:


It's so sad. You'd think performances would count for something. That was brill. And then that AJ/Big E/Dolph story line didn't even go anywhere. It was just a way to push Dolph to the side, so they could promote AJ & Big E. :lmao This fuckin' company.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> The Disgruntled Angry Guys...FROM CLEVELAND! :vince$


They'll probably call them 'TEAM Cleveland after LeBron left'


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only dislike about two Undertaker vs Kane matches. Rest are good - great. Bragging Rights is good. It just has a pointless finish that they clearly scrambled to make five minutes before the match began. Terrible end; entertaining brawl.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

From the spoilers, SD should be awesome this week. 3 potential excelent matches


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane/Undertaker NOC 2010 >>> WM14 match


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Any recs for some Hollywood blondes then?


The other Steamboat/Douglas (or, I guess ACTUAL Steamboat/Douglas b/c Zenk) matches are really good. 1/13/93 is probably the best, but 1/30/93, 2/20/93, 3/6/93, are all good with 3/27/93 IIRC being awesome. Great 4-on-4 tag w/the Heavenly Bodies v. Steamboat/Douglas & the Rock n Roll Express in February, too. The Flair/Arn match (Clash 6/16/93) is an excellent match that gets turned down to a very good one because of a terrible run-in finish. funnyfaces is right about the Scorpio/Bagwell matches. I honestly think the 5/8/93 one (the one you watched) is easily the best Blondes match, with three great performances and a cameo by Marcus Bagwell. Just an awesome, awesome match and I'd say a top 10 2-on-2 WCW tag. I remember every Blondes v. Scorp/Bagwell being good, and there are plenty on youtube (3/7/93, 6/5/93, 10/2/93....maybe more). Blondes v. Arn/Roma at Beach Blast is pretty good too, IIRC. 

These I have seen (I know from match listings), but need a memory jog of them:
Blondes/Windham v. Steamboat/Douglas/Dustin 3/28/93
Blondes/Windham v. Flair/Arn/Roma 7/3/93

There are also a couple of good house show sixmans and eightmans with the Blondes in them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blonds vs Scorpio & Simmons sometime in 1993 rules too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Grabbed the Vader Timeline from here. Hope to watch it later.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Upcoming Smackdown looks to promising :mark: :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched the Alex Wright vs. Arn matches from 95 (4/15 and Slamboree) and they're both good-great. The Worldwide match was a nice showcase of both men, pimping Wright as the hot, new wonderkid in the sport as well as Arn as the wiley veteran. Although the finish may seem deflating to some, it does great in setting up the Slamboree match. The PPV match is a bit better as you can see the development of both men - Arn has become aware of how good Wright actually is and Wright now knows he can infact get the better of Arn and you can see the confidence in Wright is x10 compared to the WW match. The finish is great, also.

Both good matches, and Wright is one of those people who I really like and will also pimp to everyone, but I still want to see a lot more of.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wonder if Seabs still has that all time great GIF of the Arn/Wright DDT.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's fantastic, got such a huge reaction as well


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I just spent like ten minutes trying to find that and gave up. :mark: 


is arn the fucking best or what


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My god that gif still rules.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Batista/Del Rio segment on Raw :lol Can Dave look a bigger pleb.

Oh, and was the crowd cardboard cutouts? Jeez.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, it looks like Smackdown is going to be OP:



Spoiler: SD



Asides from Orton/Christian, we're getting Bryan/Cesaro and Sheamus/Ryback _(Sheamus is one of the few good Ryback match possibilities)_.



Seriously, when did Smackdown got great again?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown had a really good 2013.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

On top of what ATF said, Smackdown also features


Spoiler: .



Goldust vs. Bray



Which could be excellent if given more than a few minutes.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

No Way Out 2009 Elimination Chamber Match #8 and #9 (HHH vs Undertaker vs Big Show vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Vladimir Kozlov ) / (John Cena vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Mike Knox V vs Rey Mysterio)

Smackdown one has suprisingly good star power. Haven't seen any Kozlov match before, though. Didn't expect Edge to get eliminated that fast. Big Show/Kozlov teaming up on Hardy was kind of boring, but everything after that was actually quite solid. Thought Hardy would win, to be honest. The Taker/HHH ending was great. HHH is winning those too often.

Jericho is in like all of these :mark:, :lmao at Kofi getting destroyed and Edge randomly joining in. LOL CENA I expected him to kick out of that. Rey could actually do a move or two there. I really enjoyed this one too. Mike Knox' elimination was a joke (he stomped everyone before being pinned after one finisher) and he felt really out of place. 

Both really strong chamber matches.

So far:

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
3. No Way Out 2009 (John Cena vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Mike Knox V vs Rey Mysterio)
4. No Way Out 2009 (HHH vs Undertaker vs Big Show vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Vladimir Kozlov)
5. No Way Out 2008 (HHH vs Chris Jericho vs JBL vs HBK vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga)
6. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)
7. No Way Out 2008 (MVP vs Batista vs Finlay vs Khali vs Big Daddy V vs Undertaker)
8. December to Dismember 2006 (Big Show vs Test vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Bobby Lashley vs Hardcore Holly)
9. New Year's Revolution 2006 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)

Btw, anyone else thinks Lawler seems to spoiler a lot? It was weird of him bringing up Edge before the RAW EC match.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Guys what is the best Hell In A Cell match since the PPV has begun?

MY choice would be the WM28 one and the DX/Legacy from 2009.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

what's the deal with the Five-Man Hell in a Cell for the WWE Championship in 2011? dark match for 5 minutes? wtf wwe!


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

DoubtGin said:


> No Way Out 2009 Elimination Chamber Match #8 and #9 (HHH vs Undertaker vs Big Show vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Vladimir Kozlov ) / (John Cena vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Mike Knox V vs Rey Mysterio)
> 
> Smackdown one has suprisingly good star power. Haven't seen any Kozlov match before, though. Didn't expect Edge to get eliminated that fast. Big Show/Kozlov teaming up on Hardy was kind of boring, but everything after that was actually quite solid. Thought Hardy would win, to be honest. The Taker/HHH ending was great. HHH is winning those too often.
> 
> ...


How can you rate the December to Dismember EC in front of the NYR06 EC? 

Sabu was pulled out just before the match. the weapons were barely used. Holly being eliminated without being counted to 3! :lmao

that match is just freakin awful.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> How can you rate the December to Dismember EC in front of the NYR06 EC?
> 
> *Sabu was pulled out just before the match*. the weapons were barely used. Holly being eliminated without being counted to 3! :lmao
> 
> that match is just freakin awful.


That's a bad thing?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> How can you rate the December to Dismember EC in front of the NYR06 EC?
> 
> Sabu was pulled out just before the match. the weapons were barely used. Holly being eliminated without being counted to 3! :lmao
> 
> that match is just freakin awful.


Well both matches are shit anyways. The RAW one even more, though.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Flux said:


> That's a bad thing?


when you have freakin hardcore holly and test in the match yes


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stop what you are watching. I don't give a fuck if it's the first ever HIAC, Flair Vs Windham or any other highly praised classic. WATCH THIS:

Jake Roberts Vs Dirty White Boy - Smoky Mountain Wrestling 07/05/1994

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k47HYKXZMSGl2w5mWxx


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

King Cal said:


> Stop what you are watching. I don't give a fuck if it's the first ever HIAC, Flair Vs Windham or any other highly praised classic. WATCH THIS:
> 
> Jake Roberts Vs Dirty White Boy - Smoky Mountain Wrestling 07/05/1994
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k47HYKXZMSGl2w5mWxx


too slow and too old 0/10 would not bang


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My bad, I should have posted a shitty Sabu match instead 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> too slow and too old 0/10 would not bang


Knocking Jake.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

King Cal said:


> My bad, I should have posted a shitty Sabu match instead 8*D.


yes post some. what about the november to remember match from 97 or 98


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The way Jake heels it up in that match. Making fun of the eye, acting concerned, only to take shots at it, then knocking out the photographer and taking a photo with the flash about 2 inches from DWB's eye. Hitting the DDT and acting like he's smoking a cigarette, then the arrogant cover. Terrific old school heel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I would post some Sabu matches, but posting shit isn't worth my time .


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Shovels out for Sabu?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When is your next video up Cal?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbf it'd be unfair of me to properly judge Sabu because I've probably only seen half a dozen matches of his. HOWEVER, those half dozen matches were shit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea. My weekly series just finished Season 4, and I take a break between seasons. Not got any YouTube videos planned yet, though I am working on a WWE 2K14 video atm but things are going slow. Personal shit is getting in the way of stuff atm. Hoping next week will change things.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Came across this, don't think i have seen it:

*Steve Austin vs Chris Adams - Barbed Wire*


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I am really excited for the WWE network. I can re watch and re live every PPV since the 90's in GOOD quality. anyone else looking forward to the wwe network?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm excited for the non PPV stuff, since WWE PPV's have been available in good quality for years, and most of the worthwhile WCW PPV's have been available in decent-good quality for years too (good considering they were never released on DVD).

Joey Styles confirmed on twitter that there will be some WCCW TV shows on there, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else they throw on.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

King Cal said:


> I'm excited for the non PPV stuff, since WWE PPV's have been available in good quality for years, and most of the worthwhile WCW PPV's have been available in decent-good quality for years too (good considering they were never released on DVD).
> 
> Joey Styles confirmed on twitter that there will be some WCCW TV shows on there, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else they throw on.


how old are you? you seem to remember everything mate


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm 25. I think. I don't remember.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sabu sucks

Jake Roberts is a boss, I added that match to my favorites and will watch it as soon as I get home.


Why does no one in here talk about Finlay/Regal GAB 2006? I stumbled across it when looking for other Regal stuff on DM and seem to remember loving it when I last watched it 6-7 months ago, even of the crowd was a bunch of wankers. I'm watching that after the Roberts match as soon as I get home.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Most people don't talk about it because a) it happened during a WWE GAB PPV which are looked down upon regardless of any good matches that have taken place on it and b) a lot of people didn't like it. I didn't like it originally, but when I did my SD 06 project I ended up really loving it. Not on the level of some of their WCW stuff, or the Benoit/Regal and Benoit/Finlay matches from 05/06, but still good in its own right.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Most people don't talk about it because a) it happened during a WWE GAB PPV which are looked down upon regardless of any good matches that have taken place on it and b) a lot of people didn't like it. I didn't like it originally, but when I did my SD 06 project I ended up really loving it. Not on the level of some of their WCW stuff, or the Benoit/Regal and Benoit/Finlay matches from 05/06, but still good in its own right.




I remember specifically thinking to myself when that crowd started doing the dumb "boooorrrrrinnnng" chant that they were out of their minds and that it was awesome. When I'm off work in an hour or so I'm making that and the Roberts match my priority, I refuse to believe they could have produced a bad PPV match. Maybe I'll even watch Uncensored and Nitro afterwards for a proper comparison.

Can anyone give me a list of all the major matches in the Vader/Sting feud?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/stingvvadercomp.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/stingvvadercomp.html




I need to spread rep, thanks a lot man that's absolutely perfect. I seem to remember liking their Strap match and Slamboree 94' matches best, really enjoying the Starrcade 92' match as well. My biggest and really only issue with their matches is the times when Sting gets in control and his offense just looks like absolute shit. You have Vader beating the piss out of Stinger with stiff shots and body slams and then Sting fires up his big come back with some phony looks punches and weak chops and maybe a scoop slam if he's feeling naughty. Still really love the matches for the most part but that's what keeps them from all time great territory IMHO.

Maybe I should make a project out of the feud, can't recall anyone saying they had a flat out BAD match, that could be a fun one. Every time I plan on a project it always stalls when I know I've got to sit through a 10-15 minute BAD match. God bless some of you that can do it, but I simply can't sit through a 15 minute BAD match willingly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/stingvvadercomp.html


:mark: One of must watch comps. Thanks again Cal.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Watched Backlash 2009 again. 

The PPV itself is fine, and the Main Event is pretty good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 09 is great. Swagger/Christian rocks in all kind of ways, Steamboat/Jericho is super fun and good, Hardy/Hardy I Quit is great, and the 6 man tag rules too.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Backlash 09 is great. Swagger/Christian rocks in all kind of ways, Steamboat/Jericho is super fun and good, Hardy/Hardy I Quit is great, and the 6 man tag rules too.


Opinion on the Last Man Standing Match? I thought it was the highlight of the show.

Swagger/Christian was good, I agree. The matches were generally good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hardy I quit great :kobe

I am one of the few that prefer the BL Swagger/Christian match to the TV one, Steamboat match rules, and thats it, not a fan of the two title matches or Kane/Punk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Opinion on the Last Man Standing Match? I thought it was the highlight of the show.
> 
> Swagger/Christian was good, I agree. The matches were generally good.


Don't care much for the LMS. Spots spots and more spots.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Edge vs Cena at BL 2009 is my favourite match between the two. This promo leading to the match is great


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wait... I think I'm confusing the I Quit with the Stretcher match. WM match was great, I Quit sucks and Stretcher rules. That's it!


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Edge vs Cena at BL 2009 is my favourite match between the two. This promo leading to the match is great


Edge is so underrated


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big fan of that promo, was the first time I remotely cared about their feud. Shame their matches never lived up to the hype WWE put on it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Psychology wise, the Edge Cena match might have not been the greatest, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Liked seeing Edge come out on top, as well.

Might make a list of my Top 10 Ziggler matches, though I doubt anyone would care much, since the attitude towards Ziggler ITT is moreover one of indifference, perhaps, bar Nostalgia, and Skins.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingLobos said:


> Edge is so underrated


How is he?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Think he meant as a mic worker.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Wait... I think I'm confusing the I Quit with the Stretcher match. WM match was great, I Quit sucks and Stretcher rules. That's it!


(Y)

***1/2 for WM 

***3/4 for Stretcher 

* for I quit


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Might make a list of my Top 10 Ziggler matches, though I doubt anyone would care much, since the attitude towards Ziggler ITT is moreover one of indifference, perhaps, bar Nostalgia, and Skins.


I would. 

My top 5 Ziggler matches would probably be: 

Ziggler/Del Rio - Payback 2013
Ziggler/Bryan - Bragging Rights 2010
Ziggler/Punk - RAW 21/11/11
Ziggler/Edge - Royal Rumble 2011
Ziggler/Cena - TLC 2012


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Think he meant as a mic worker.


Yeah. I guess because of all his accomplishments and accolades he could be considered overrated but as a performer he really could do it all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Psychology wise, the Edge Cena match might have not been the greatest, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Liked seeing Edge come out on top, as well.
> 
> Might make a list of my Top 10 Ziggler matches, though I doubt anyone would care much, since the attitude towards Ziggler ITT is moreover one of indifference, perhaps, bar Nostalgia, and Skins.



I'm there with you, Skins, and Nost in the Ziggler fan camp. He's one of the few guys who I actually care about on the current roster.


Nost- great top 5. I'm desperate for WWE to give us a heel Henry/Ziggler feud. Everyone on the roster would have a hard time following those two.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

After watching Vader's shoot, all I have to say is: I'm going to legitimately say legitimately as many times as legitimately possible.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Psychology wise, the Edge Cena match might have not been the greatest, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Liked seeing Edge come out on top, as well.
> 
> Might make a list of my Top 10 Ziggler matches, though I doubt anyone would care much, since the attitude towards Ziggler ITT is moreover one of indifference, perhaps, bar Nostalgia, and Skins.


I like Ziggler a good bit. Just watched the most recent interview with him and the guy looked super depressed. I supposed if I had no direction and was about to be put with Miz I'd be depressed also.

Also, on Backlash 2009, the six man tag is also pretty fun. Jericho/Steamboat rocks my world.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

For anyone who doesn't know, Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro has been taped for SmackDown. The match was said to have been amazing. So some of you guys have something to look forward to. I won't spoil it any further.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm there with you, Skins, and Nost in the Ziggler fan camp. He's one of the few guys who I actually care about on the current roster.


(Y)

Although given his current booking it's hard to care about him sadly, that's why most of the forum have hopped off the Ziggler bandwagon that they were on when he was World Champion. But it's good to see some still care about him, that is what it means to be a true fan of someone right there.


Cactus Jack said:


> Nost- great top 5. I'm desperate for WWE to give us a heel Henry/Ziggler feud. Everyone on the roster would have a hard time following those two.


Thanks. There's some matches from Main Event of Ziggler's that I haven't seen, but have been highly praised that might make the list if I ever get around to watching them. There's other matches of his that I haven't seen in so long, like the Mysterio matches, so I can't accurately judge them unless I re-watch them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wait wait wait... Ziggler & JIZ gonna be put together? Team or opponents? In fact it doesn't matter, either way is TERRIBLE :lmao. Poor Ziggie.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, apparently they're looking at doing a "Disgruntled Employee" duo. Pretty Awesome Truth but with Ziggler replacing Truth.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

off the top of my head

1)ADR payback
2)Bryan br 10
3) Masters superstars 5/10
4) Punk raw 11/11
5) Cesaro main event
6) Mysterio NOC 09


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't wait for the series of matches between them and The Usos or Kofi & Big E :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sabu is good. Not always, but he's good.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Everyone is hating the idea of them teaming up. And I can see that, but it's not like the company is doing anything with Ziggler. They're just using him as a complete jobber, and a team with Miz would at least be something. I don't like it because I hate The Miz, but it could be better for him right now than irrelevantly jobbing each week. Idk. :side:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Okay so I've decided to watch all of the WCW PPVs from 1997 because y the fuck not? IIRC, also, this is my first full PPV review, seeing as I'm more of an individual match-watcher rather than a full PPV watcher. Anyway, here we go.

WCW/NWO Souled Out 1997



Spoiler: Masahiro Chono vs. Chris Jericho



_Just some random notes before I get in to it: Nick Patrick is the fucking worst + this commentary is going to piss me off throughout the PPV, I can tell. Fantastic. Anyway, on to the match and I've heard of this Chono cat a fair few times but I've never seen anything of him, and if this match is anything to go by, then he sucks. Jericho tried, his selling of the leg was on/off but when it was on it was great. Chono's workover of the leg wasn't good at all and the finish fell rather flat. Also :lol at the crowd chanting USA when Jericho is Candian. A bit of a dud, in all honesty. Unless convinced otherwise, I highly doubt I'll be searching for more of Chono (IN OTHER WORDS SHOULD I OR SSHOULDNT I?????)_





Spoiler: Big Bugga vs. Hugh Morrus



This was sucky, so sucky. I mean, I understand the concept of the PPV and all that, but already I'm sick of Nick bastard Patrick and the shady officiating and it really took me ouyt of this, and it will probably take me out of every other match. Even without that, though, this match was pretty shite. Neither guy offered anything remotely decent and it was just a complete waste of time. Definition of Dud..





Spoiler: Jeff Jarrett vs. Mr Wall Street



_Seriously fuck this show already :lol Mainly for the Nick Patrick and the boring, monotonous shady reffing but also for the matches so far offering very little. The best part of this match was the shots of Debra every so often. Neither man, much like the previous match, offer anything and the only story was the NWO cheating through Patrick. They literally did nothing, it's difficult to even remember any part of the match, and I just finished it one minute ago. A whole ten minutes of FUCKALLness. The only way is up,surely? "]_





Spoiler: Buff Bagwell vs. Scotty Riggs



_I actually didn't mind this, it was fairly decent and coincedentally, this match had the least referee shenanigans of all the matches so far, so it adds up. But thats not to take away from either man. There was a clear heel/face dynamic even if you strip away the NWO or WCW affiliations and both men played their roles well. Buff's workover wasn't exactly stellar but his taunts and trash talking did enough to build some heat, and he bumped well for Rigg's comeback. Riggs has a beautiful dropkick btw, looks great. By far and away the best match on the show so far, and I know thats not saying much but even on a better card, this would still be decent._





Spoiler: Scott Norton vs. Diamond Dallas Page



_This was so and so. Noirton was good and Page was ok'ish despite the fact that he completely no sold the arm Norton worked on for a fair bit. I chuckled when Page went for the crucifix-sunsetflip-pin and Norton just decked him in the face :lol The ending didn't particularly bother me as I understand that it ran alongside the recruitment angle that was going on at the time. Quite a lot of distractions in this match but even without them, this was mediocre at best, mainly due to Nrton being Norton. I don't suggest seeking this out by any means, but it was harmless I guess_





Spoiler: The Outsiders vs. The Steiner Brothers



_Whilst this was pretty slow and dragged a fair bit, I can appreciate the extremely simple yet effective formula of the match. Hot start from the faces, the heels control, hot tag, shenanigans, finish. They also delegated all of the roles to the right people with Hall doing the bulk of the control, Nash coming in with the power moves, Rick playing the FIP and Scott with the hot tag. Scott Steiner looked like a beast in this, BTW. But yeah, I appreciate the style and the execution of the match, but it was pretty slow and fairly boring, however it could have been a lot more boring had they gone another route with this._





Spoiler: Eddie Guerrero vs. Syxx



_I didn't think this was particularly bad but like most of the early ladder matches it doesn't hold up well just due to the fact that everything has got bigger and bigger since then. Some of the spots made me cringe though, like the see-saw and the pop-up thing on to the ladder when Guerrero landed knees first. It did it's job and I'm sure it was good at the time although probs not on the level of Shawn/Razor. I can't really say much more than that tbh._





Spoiler: Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant



_Decent, did it's job and a hell of a lot less painful than it could have been and how I thought it would be. Hogan does every dirty trick in the book whilst The Giant comes out looking strong as hell. The Giant/Big Show has improved so fucking much since back then, it's amazing really. He's turned from just a circus-attraction like giant to a compelling wrestler who just happens to be a giant, it's almost nice to see how suckish he used to be compared to now, seeing as I'm such a huge fan of his. The finish is fine, it's what I expected. Like I opened up with, decent and did it's job._






Spoiler: BEST WCW PPV MATCHES OF 1997 SO FAR



1. Buff Bagwell vs. Scotty Riggs - Souled Out
2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Syxx - Souled Out
3. The Outsiders vs. The Steiner Brothers - Souled Out
4. Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant - Souled Out
5. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Scott Norton - Souled Out
6. Jeff Jarrett vs. Mr Wallstreet - Souled Out
7. Masahiro Chono vs. Chris Jericho - Souled Out
8. Big Bubba vs. Hugh Morrus - Souled Out



NOW I NEED SOME MATCHES TO WATCH. NEED SOME GOOD THINGS TO MAKE UP FOR THAT PPV. SUGGESTIONS?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> I would.
> 
> My top 5 Ziggler matches would probably be:
> 
> ...





SKINS said:


> off the top of my head
> 
> 1)ADR payback
> 2)Bryan br 10
> ...


My Top 15 Ziggler matches :

Ziggler/Del Rio (Payback 2013)
Ziggler/Bryan (Bragging Rights 2010)
Ziggler/Punk (Raw 11/21/11)
Ziggler/Mysterio (SummerSlam 2009)
Ziggler/Edge (Royal Rumble 2011)
Ziggler/Cena (TLC 2012)
Ziggler/Cesaro (Superstars 8/30/13)
Ziggler/Bryan (Raw 3/11/13)
Ziggler/Jericho (Raw 4/22/13)
Ziggler/Kaval (Survivor Series 2010)
Ziggler/Del Rio (Money In The Bank 2013)
Ziggler/Jericho (SummerSlam 2012)
Ziggler/Orton (NOC 2012)
Ziggler/Sheamus (No Way Out 2012)
Ziggler/Morrison (Hell In A Cell 2009)



Cactus Jack said:


> I'm there with you, Skins, and Nost in the Ziggler fan camp. He's one of the few guys who I actually care about on the current roster.
> 
> 
> Nost- great top 5. I'm desperate for WWE to give us a heel Henry/Ziggler feud. Everyone on the roster would have a hard time following those two.





Odafin Tutuola said:


> I like Ziggler a good bit. Just watched the most recent interview with him and the guy looked super depressed. I supposed if I had no direction and was about to be put with Miz I'd be depressed also.
> 
> Also, on Backlash 2009, the six man tag is also pretty fun. Jericho/Steamboat rocks my world.


Good to see some Ziggler fans on here. Like Nostalgia said, those still supporting him are true fans. Many have hopped off the wagon, unfortunately, but what are you going to do? 

I would like to see Ziggler in a program with both Bryan and Cesaro at some point (in separate feuds) in the future. Imagine the matches.

Also, yeah seeing Ziggler/Henry would be interesting, Ziggler's selling would be intriguing, and the match would likely be very good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Great list man, Im still a big Ziggler fan too


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> Just some random notes before I get in to it: Nick Patrick is the fucking worst + this commentary is going to piss me off throughout the PPV, I can tell. Fantastic. Anyway, on to the match and I've heard of this Chono cat a fair few times but I've never seen anything of him, and if this match is anything to go by, then he sucks.


Chono at his best is really good. But that's like, 3 matches in 1992. Otherwise he sucks and is boring and needs to be lead to a match of really impressive quality.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The last couple pages have warmed my heart, havent said much because I'll start to sound like a broken record

Ive actually never seen cena/ziggler tlc on tv (was their live) but didnt like their matches from 2012, recommed their 2010 ones


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

If you include multi-man or tag-team matches, I think Survivor Series 2012 Elimination Match could be included, too. It was a big moment for Dolph Ziggler, getting a clean win over Randy Orton on PPV (not forgetting that Orton was the face & Ziggler was the heel either). Also I thnk it was the best match on that Survivor Series anyways.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Chono at his best is really good. But that's like, 3 matches in 1992. Otherwise he sucks and is boring and needs to be lead to a match of really impressive quality.


I can believe that just based on that match. Jericho tried, but it was still horrible. Oh well, at least I shan't be wasting my time :hb



WWE2014 said:


> If you include multi-man or tag-team matches, I think Survivor Series 2012 Elimination Match should be included, too. It was a big moment for Dolph Ziggler, getting a clean win over Randy Orton on PPV (not forgetting that Orton was the face & Ziggler was the a heel either). Also I thnk it was the best match on that Survivor Series anyways.


The opener and main event > Ziggler/Foley 5v5. The opener was fantastic and the main was a hell of a lot better than it had any right to be, and ofc. it helps that The Shield debuted. The Ziggler 5v5 was just 20+ minutes of nothingness. No reason to care and very little standing out. At least with the opener it was kept somewhat short with little downtime, as well as just being a general showcase for the lowercarders which is always nice and adds a little bit of charm to some matches.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Skins, I think you are a bit harsh on Ziggler/Cena TLC 2012. I liked it a lot, though it may have something to do with the atmosphere more than anything, and I'm big on good crowds, so that might have something to do with it. 

As for SS '12, the crowd was pretty unimpressive. Can't say I was a big fan of the PPV, though I was content with the result of the 5-on-5 match, as well as Punk retaining the title.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone else a fan of the Kane/Ziggler matches on SD in early... 2010 I think it was? They had a series of matches and were pretty good, with the final one being around ***1/4 or something.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I remember liking 1 or 2 of their matches from 2010 sd


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Is Kane/Ziggler where the story was centered about Dolph's sleeper spot? Yeah, it was a nice little trilogy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, that's the one.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Kind of an underrated match. Never really get's talked about but is FUN & entertaining to watch. If anyone needs something to watch, you can watch this, l0l.

x9gqhs


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just finished watching the Four Hourseman doc and jeez it was really good, don't really hear that it's a top doc that much though..


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Yeah, that's the one.



Rewatched Finlay/Regal GAB 2006. Wasn't nearly as great as I remembered it being, but it's still rather good. It just didn't seem like they knew where they were going with that match, which sounds insane when you consider the wrestlers involved. They never really took it to the mat or turned it into a brawl, and they didn't really bring the nastiness with their holds like you'd expect in anything involving them. And the Hornswoggle shens were a bit over done. Finally, JBL was downright obnoxious on commentary. All that aside, it's still Finlay and Regal and there was still some awesome strikes, grunts from Regal, and some gritty action. ***1/4



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Just finished watching the Four Hourseman doc and jeez it was really good, don't really hear that it's a top doc that much though..


I just posted my top 10 docs and that made my list, I absolutely love that documentary.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, idk it might be top 5 or so.. really informative for me because I knew the basics of it all but it taught me a lot.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

After putting myself through the shittiness that was Souled Out 1997, I think I'm going to treat myself and watch the three main Steamboat/Flair matches back to back to back. Never done it before with this particular series but based on previous times where I've done it with other series' of matches, it's most definitely the best way to appreciate them. So hurrah for me and the next two hours of my life.

:moyes1


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Is there a really good/great No Way Out PPV? I can think of a bunch of great main events, but not a full show. Suggestions plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Is there a really good/great No Way Out PPV? I can think of a bunch of great main events, but not a full show. Suggestions plz.


2006 immediately comes to mind even though it's the 2 main events that really stand out. 2008 is also very good with the two chamber matches, Rey/Edge and Orton/Cena's best match together.

And ICE-T. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NWO 04 and 06 are GOAT, I'd give 3rd place to 08

2000 is good too iirc 

2001 is OK, 2/3 falls match is **** but theres nothing else


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nwo 09 is a very solid show HHH, loved both chambers and shawn/jbl is fun


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, 2004 and 2006 were the events I was figuring. Going with 2004, I think.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

RhodesForWHC said:


> My Top 15 Ziggler matches :
> 
> Ziggler/Del Rio (Payback 2013)
> Ziggler/Bryan (Bragging Rights 2010)
> ...


Very nice list, dude. (Y)

I'm gonna have to watch some of these though, as I've never seen the Kaval match in full, nor have I seen the Morrison match but I do remember they were good in the ring together.

Some of (or maybe even half of) those matches are underrated. & I'm definitely still a big Ziggler fan, I just can't get really into his matches as I expect him to be looking up at the lights at the end of the match or winning a meaningless match (examples: all of those Sandow matches and that Miz match from last week). It's like, I don't really care if he beats Fandango or Sandow as they don't go anywhere nor help anything or make anything worse.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would watch 2009 instead


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2004 is my favorite, im a HUGE fan of Chavo/Rey and Brock/Eddie


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Yeah, 2004 and 2006 were the events I was figuring. Going with 2004, I think.




Brock/Eddie is masterful and Chavo/Rey is damn, damn good especially for Chavo.

"JUST DIE EDDIE! GIVE UP LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO!" :mark:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Remember Ziggler's dopey wrist tape? :lol


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I always love re watching the rko/hhh last man standing match!


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Saw Sting vs Flair @ GAB 90 on my computer so decided to watch it for the first time. This reaffirms my position that Sting is terrible. **1/2. 

Also found Vader vs Flair and liked that a lot more. Vader beating the shit out of somebody for 20 minutes :mark:. Flair selling for 20 minutes :mark:. Flair beating Vader down at one point :mark:. Such a smartly worked match by both guys. ****1/4 for this.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm watching the Flair/Orton cage match right now and it's been a really strange match. It's so strange seeing Flair wrestle as a pure heel against Orton because everything tells me that it should be the other way around. It's not even the standard Flair heel match either. Watching him get a control segment as soon as the match starts just feels wrong. Flair always makes you feel like he doesn't have a chance in hell against the babyface he's in the ring with. It's amazing. We didn't get that here as he seems to be more about blatantly taking shortcuts. While the match is strange I have to say I really like it. It had this really gritty feel to it. Flair's the veteran and he's holding nothing back as he takes it right to Orton and uses every single dirty trick he knows. Eye pokes, low blows, brass knucks, bringing in a chair, whatever he could possibly do he did. And his cheap tricks worked every single time. Every single time until it didn't work and Orton hit the RKO for the win that is. 

I'm not going to call it a great match but it was really really good. I haven't said much about Orton because he just sort of showed up. This match is all Flair and he was really impressive. They told a great story in the ring that kept me entertained. 

I'm around ***1/2 maybe ***3/4 myself for it.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Watched Backlash 2009 again.
> 
> The PPV itself is fine, and the Main Event is pretty good.


Great PPV. make up for the shitty wm25.

Christian and Edge winning world titles on the same night :mark:

Triple H losing to Randy Orton :yum:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 25>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BL 09 

In other news, DL a Bryan Danielson pack :mark:


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I need some ratings on 3 Hell In A Cell matches.

1. DX vs. Legacy - HIAC09
2. Orton vs. Sheamus - HIAC10
3. ADR vs. Cena vs. Punk - HIAC11

The 2012 HIAC between Ryback and CM Punk is one ofthe worst HIAC I've ever seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I'm watching the Flair/Orton cage match right now and it's been a really strange match. It's so strange seeing Flair wrestle as a pure heel against Orton because everything tells me that it should be the other way around. It's not even the standard Flair heel match either. Watching him get a control segment as soon as the match starts just feels wrong. Flair always makes you feel like he doesn't have a chance in hell against the babyface he's in the ring with. It's amazing. We didn't get that here as he seems to be more about blatantly taking shortcuts. While the match is strange I have to say I really like it. It had this really gritty feel to it. Flair's the veteran and he's holding nothing back as he takes it right to Orton and uses every single dirty trick he knows. Eye pokes, low blows, brass knucks, bringing in a chair, whatever he could possibly do he did. And his cheap tricks worked every single time. Every single time until it didn't work and Orton hit the RKO for the win that is.
> 
> I'm not going to call it a great match but it was really really good. I haven't said much about Orton because he just sort of showed up. This match is all Flair and he was really impressive. They told a great story in the ring that kept me entertained.
> 
> I'm around ***1/2 maybe ***3/4 myself for it.




I need to check that match out, it sounds really intriguing,


One of my favorite performances from Flair believe it or not is the unbelievable baby face performance he puts on against Hunter in their Steel Cage match at Taboo Tuesday. It's really one of those things you need to see to believe. Hunter gets so much heat in that match not by anything he does, just by virtue of how great an underdog performance Flair gives. That match has a moment went Hunter has Flair in the figure four, and blood is just pouring down Flairs face and he just starts screaming I agony and yelling "ILL KILL YOU YOU MOTHERFUCKER" and he just starts swinging wild fists at Hunter. It's one of the top chill inducing moments I think in all of wrestling, because the sheer brutality of what this 50+ year old man is enduring and still he's just fighting and refusing to give in. Behind Magnum/Tully, I think Taboo Tuesday takes the cake for best cage match of all time. It's a match I could easily see taking place at Starrcade 1986 in the Old Crockett Promotion. Old Man Flair in that match was better than most wrestlers could ever dream of being, and he had to be damn near 60 years old at that point. Unreal, that match is a great one to point to as to why Flair should be everyone's North American GOAT.


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

The Flair/Hunter Cage and LMS are incredible. Both tell a perfect story. Haitch standing over Flair at the end of the LMS match and shooting Flair in the head to is chilling.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair/HHH Cage is awesome, LMS is alright.


----------



## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

I just watched HHH/Flair after his new documentary Thy Kingdom Come. It is indeed awesome, great match. Also in Thy Kingdome Come, made me realize HHH is a genius. I had no faith in him at COO, before the documentary. I think if we wait it out a bit more, HHH is going change WWE in a big way.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I used to love both the LMS and Elimination Tag main event match at SvS 05, but my most recent watch of both made me kinda lower my opinions on them. The Taboo Tuesday Cage match is arguably a top five cage match in WWE history. Up there with Backlund/Slaughter, Owen/Bret, Hardy/Edge, and Punk/Hardy. The LMS match is very good, but it dragged on for way too long and I recall HHH forgetting about all the work Flair did on his legs. The Elimination Tag match did not have as much drama as I remember it having. Definitely nothing compared to the 2003 SvS elimination tag match which ran a very similar story. It also didn't help that half the guys in this match sucked. Still a real good match, but not classics like I once thought.

We are all in agreement though that NWA/JCP Cage matches > WWE cage matches, right?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are all in agreement though that NWA/JCP Cage matches > WWE cage matches, right?


Well DUHHHHHH.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

flair/orton is probably my favorite cage match and I love the gimmick. Loved it, short and too the point, simple structure but performed tremendously


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I still have yet to even see anything from Survivor Series 2005.

But I know that I do love the cage match between Triple H/Flair.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

William Murderface said:


> I still have yet to even see anything from Survivor Series 2005.
> 
> But I know that I do love the cage match between Triple H/Flair.


Good PPV. give it a watch. the ending with the return of the undertaker is freakin amazing!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I've had numerous chances to buy it, but I always bought a different show instead for whatever reason.

It looks like most of the matches are on YouTube, so I will most likely watch it finally.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just please avoid Cena/Angle. My goodness, I don't know which one out of the two is the bigger horse's ass.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle.

Duh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Both had sucky 2005s, and I would probably take Angle's 2006 over Cena's. Can't disagree with you when it comes to everything since then. Man has that gap increased like crazy.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Just please avoid Cena/Angle. My goodness, I don't know which one out of the two is the bigger horse's ass.


Well I'm gonna watch it of course, good or bad I wanna everything at least once.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Both had sucky 2005s, and I would probably take Angle's 2006 over Cena's. Can't disagree with you when it comes to everything since then. Man has that gap increased like crazy.


All Angle had in 2005 was vs Jannetty & getting carried by Flair to a great match. Cena had some Jericho matches I dug a lot. Maybe some more on TV vs others, but idk. Certainly nothing vs each other. Never liked their matches pardon No Mercy 2003.

2006 is basically a given b/c Angle got to work vs UNDERTAKER. Cena got stuck w/Triple H. No contest. And I'm not even that big on the 2006 matches Undertaker had w/Angle. _(also think Cena probably still had more matches better than Angle b/c Angle sucks & Cena got a full year on his plate. Kind of obvious type garbage scenario here.)_


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> All Angle had in 2005 was vs Jannetty & getting carried by Flair to a great match. Cena had some Jericho matches I dug a lot. Maybe some more on TV vs others, but idk. Certainly nothing vs each other. Never liked their matches pardon No Mercy 2003.
> 
> 2006 is basically a given b/c Angle got to work vs UNDERTAKER. Cena got stuck w/Triple H. No contest. And I'm not even that big on the 2006 matches Undertaker had w/Angle. _(also think Cena probably still had more matches better than Angle b/c Angle sucks & Cena got a full year on his plate. Kind of obvious type garbage scenario here.)_


The Triple Threat at Taboo Tuesday is kinda good. do you like it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's held up well. Best thing produced from the Cena vs Angle feud in 2005, as a matter of fact.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

N bomb best thing on Survivor Series 05 lolol


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching souled out 2000


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^bad show or not, it did have a good main event w/Sid vs Benoit. Some shows out there don't even had that.

FINALLY dipped into the Undertaker vs Big Show Last Man Standing match. I swear I've never seen it until five minutes ago. How dare I? Anyways, it's rad. I'm a bit more preferrable towards their insanely paced sprint from No Mercy a few weeks prior, but damn. These two laid into each other like real monsters. Awesome continuity from Show's character work of being cocky, yet not too over-confident after having the upper hand on Taker. And Taker being his normal, badass self to come from behind at the very end and inch out a narrow, hard fought victory. Lets forget about the crap Casket match and jump to how this feud would be squashed w/their really good Steel Cage match. It's a better world. I love these guys.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just watched Extreme Rules 2012. PPV of the year I reckon.

Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan is brilliant, and great to see the Chicago crowd loving heel Bryan. Both guys put a lot of work in, but this still should've happened at Wrestlemania 28. *****1/4*

CM Punk vs Y2J is another great match between the two, even if it's a little sloppy I can let it go because it's a street fight so wasn't expecting crisp, fluid wrestling. ******

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena is STILL brutal to watch almost 2 years later. Man, Cena takes some legit punishment in this one. His head wound looks plain nasty from the get go. Lesnar is a sick son of a gun. Props to Cena for taking what he took, and props to both guys for making it seem like a legit fight. MOTY for my money. *****1/2*

Question - What are the best matches Daniel Bryan has had so far in the E? I've got a 10-disc set from his ROH days but I want to download some of his best WWE matches. 

Off the top of my head i can think of:

MITB 2011 match that he won
vs Sheamus at Extreme Rules 2012
vs Punk at Over The Limit 2012
a bunch of six man tags he's been in vs The Shield but can't remember specific ones
vs Cena at Summerslam 2013
vs Orton on RAW December 16th 2013
vs Bray Wyatt at Royal Rumble 2014
vs Randy Orton RAW February 3rd 2014

I'm a bit rusty on good pre-2012 matches because I have a crap memory so any help is appreciated


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. Sheamus street fight (stip was a fan vote between street fight, FCA and No Dq :ti)
vs. Dolph @ BR 2010
vs. Miz @ NOC
vs. Cesaro/the gauntlet thing


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> vs. Sheamus street fight (stip was a fan vote between street fight, FCA and No Dq :ti)
> vs. Dolph @ BR 2010
> vs. Miz @ NOC
> vs. Cesaro/the gauntlet thing





Best Daniel Bryan WWE matches:

1. Vs Punk OTL 2012 ****3/4
2. Vs Sheamus 2/3 Falls ER ****1/2
3. Vs Cena SS 13' ****1/4
4. Vs Cesaro Raw ****
5. Vs Bray Wyatt RR 14' ****
6. Vs Punk MitB 2012 ****
7. Vs Rollins Raw ****
8. Vs Ziggler BR ****
9. Vs Orton Raw 12/16 ****
10. Vs Miz NoC ****

For my money 

If we include tags the TLC match vs The Shield would certainly be up there as well.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was just adding some AdmireMyClone didn't include, if it were my favourites then it'd probably go like

1. vs. Punk @ OTL
2. vs. Sheamus @ ER
3. vs. Cesaro
4. vs. Rollins
5. vs. Henry in the cage

Ofc. if we're including multiman matches, TLC 2012 would be first and a Shield match would maybe fit in somewhere. Crazy consistency for four years, especially when for pretty much a whole year he did very little in terms of profiled-feuds and matches (2011) and in 2010 he wasn't given a great deal to work with. Gonna have to revisit a few matches (all vs. Kane, SS vs. Barrett, IIRC vs. Jericho was good)

edit: Rewatching the street fight vs. Sheamus as we speak and it's brilliant, definitely a top ten Bryan WWE match IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Trent Barreta from Superstars in 2011 is a neat little match. He also has a match vs Regal on Superstars later that year. That's sure to something for someone to check out. All of his matches vs Cody Rhodes on Smackdown were good. Dunno why I'm only fixated on 2011 matches, but w/e. Oh and vs Barrett from SummerSlam is pretty awesome. Those two bash the ever loving piss out of each other. Don't sleep on the Miz rematch at the start of 2011 on RAW. Danielson w/Gail Kim vs Tyson Kidd & Melina on Superstars is fun.

Watch his sprint vs Regal on RAW in late 2010. Oh and vs Del Rio following SummerSlam 2011 is great. I love that match. Love the United States Championship bout vs Ted Dibiase Jr from Survivor Series 2010.

btw @ Flux - I'll hit you up w/the Chikara info soon. Remembered I got to help you out w/that, pal.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I need some ratings on 3 Hell In A Cell matches.

1. DX vs. Legacy - HIAC09
2. Orton vs. Sheamus - HIAC10
3. ADR vs. Cena vs. Punk - HIAC11

The 2012 HIAC between Ryback and CM Punk is one of the worst match I've ever seen.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> I need some ratings on 3 Hell In A Cell matches.
> 
> 1. DX vs. Legacy - HIAC09
> 2. Orton vs. Sheamus - HIAC10
> ...




Orton vs Sheamus is underrated for sure, DX/Legacy is OK, ADR/Punk/Cena is pretty solid. 

Dx/Legacy: **1/2
Orton/Sheamus: ***3/4
ADR/Punk/Cena: ***1/2


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. When did the Bryan/Rollins match take place? I see one on youtube from June 2013?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first one? 6/10/13, iirc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yep, I specifically bought the Payback Blu Ray so I could own Ziggler/ADR and Bryan/Rollins in hi def. That's one hard hitting match, that drop kick into the corner makes me wince every time. Rollins is such a stud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn. That's on the blu-ray? Shooot.

I'm a swine. How did I mention various Danielson matches throughout his WWE career and not mention his brilliant bout vs Drew McIntyre from Superstars in 2011? Terrible. It's something everyone has to see.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

No mention of his matches with Christian and Ryback on Smackdown from last year. His match with Jericho on NXT is great. He even got good matches out of Big Show and Mark Henry. He had a fun match with Cena on Raw during his Heel run. His Tv matches with Cm Punk were good too. Once they release a DVD with Documentary on Bryan it's going to be full of top quality matches. He's already had two this year alone with Wyatt at the RR and Orton on RAW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like the implied notion that Henry & Show suck or something.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan is doing miracle work Cody, everyone else are just broomsticks waiting to be carried


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson - a regular guardian angel of wrestling.

Not to be confused w/Ray Traylor.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Downloading most of these matches now. Very exciting! Which Bryan/Regal match is the best? RAW from 12/20/2010 or Superstars 10/11/2011?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most preferred the 2011 bout b/c it was longer & on Superstars so it got to be more of "their kind of match". I would go w/both, tbhayley. RAW match is real good for their sub-five minute window given.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

hardyorton said:


> No mention of his matches with Christian and Ryback on Smackdown from last year. His match with Jericho on NXT is great. He even got good matches out of Big Show and Mark Henry. He had a fun match with Cena on Raw during his Heel run. His Tv matches with Cm Punk were good too. Once they release a DVD with Documentary on Bryan it's going to be full of top quality matches. He's already had two this year alone with Wyatt at the RR and Orton on RAW.



Big Show has had good matches with most of the guys on the roster, and NOBODY carries Henry in matches these days, Henry does the heavy lifting most time just because he's HENRY and his mere presence is a force of nature.

In fact, you need to go watch the Vengeance 2011 WHC match between Henry and Show right now. If you don't enjoy/love that match, then you and I sir have nothing in common and there is nothing left for us to discuss on the subject of pro wrestling. I'm dead serious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not even if he comes back w/a MENG topic. There's no coming back.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Danielson vs Trent Barreta from Superstars in 2011 is a neat little match. He also has a match vs Regal on Superstars later that year. That's sure to something for someone to check out. All of his matches vs Cody Rhodes on Smackdown were good. Dunno why I'm only fixated on 2011 matches, but w/e. Oh and vs Barrett from SummerSlam is pretty awesome. Those two bash the ever loving piss out of each other. Don't sleep on the Miz rematch at the start of 2011 on RAW. Danielson w/Gail Kim vs Tyson Kidd & Melina on Superstars is fun.
> 
> Watch his sprint vs Regal on RAW in late 2010. Oh and vs Del Rio following SummerSlam 2011 is great. I love that match. Love the United States Championship bout vs Ted Dibiase Jr from Survivor Series 2010.
> 
> btw @ Flux - I'll hit you up w/the Chikara info soon. Remembered I got to help you out w/that, pal.


Haven't seen many of those matches in a LOOOOONG time. I've always dug Trent, glad he's doing well on the indy scene atm so I'll re-check out that match. Never heard of the mixed tag but both girls are solid and we all know Kidd is decent and can go. Last time I saw vs. DiBiase (which was probably two years ago at least) I can remember disliking it a fair bit, but then again I've never liked Ted, ever.

and thanks for doing that, you're a gem (Y)



I_Was_Awesome said:


> I need some ratings on 3 Hell In A Cell matches.
> 
> 1. DX vs. Legacy - HIAC09
> 2. Orton vs. Sheamus - HIAC10
> ...


The first two suck IMO but the 2011 match is decent but nothing great.



Cactus Jack said:


> Big Show has had good matches with most of the guys on the roster, and NOBODY carries Henry in matches these days, Henry does the heavy lifting most time just because he's HENRY and his mere presence is a force of nature.
> 
> In fact, you need to go watch the Vengeance 2011 WHC match between Henry and Show right now. If you don't enjoy/love that match, then you and I sir have nothing in common and there is nothing left for us to discuss on the subject of pro wrestling. I'm dead serious.


Haven't watched that match in SO long. Criminally long. I'm a bad person.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think if there was ever a match to make any non-care for Dibiase Jr to dissolve, it is the PPV match vs Danielson. But that's me. I think it's honestly a bit of a wonder. Their chemistry matches up so well. Believe they had it from Pro Wrestling NOAH tours in the past.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If he comes back with a MENG topic I'll just be confused, because how can you like MENG and not like HENRY. They are cut from a similar cloth. 

Being the tag team aficionado that you are, the Zybysko/Eaton/Anderson vs Steamboat/Dustin/Koloff match has officially replaced the Canadian Stampede 10 Man as my favorite tag match of all time. I've watched it 3 times the last 2 days and just can't seem to get enough. What WCW tags would you consider better than this work of art? I need one of you tech savvy people to make a gif of Dustin delivering the bionic elbow to Eaton over and over while Eaton bounces off the ropes. That would be stellar.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Loved the Meng mention on RAW this past week.

Lord have mercy, add Hogan to the list of fossils that DDP carried. Their 10/28/97 match has to be a top ten Hogan match at the very least and the best one he had in WCW.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Reminds me to rewatch that when I get home :


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> If he comes back with a MENG topic I'll just be confused, because how can you like MENG and not like HENRY. They are cut from a similar cloth.
> 
> Being the tag team aficionado that you are, the Zybysko/Eaton/Anderson vs Steamboat/Dustin/Koloff match has officially replaced the Canadian Stampede 10 Man as my favorite tag match of all time. I've watched it 3 times the last 2 days and just can't seem to get enough. What WCW tags would you consider better than this work of art? I need one of you tech savvy people to make a gif of Dustin delivering the bionic elbow to Eaton over and over while Eaton bounces off the ropes. That would be stellar.


At least off the top of my head I know I got my favorite Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 over it. But that's over everything. As for some others. Hmm. Contenders:

Midnight Express vs Rock N'Roll Express - WrestleWar '90
Nasty Boys vs Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne - Spring Stampede '94
Nasty Boys vs Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan - Slamboree '94
Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance - WrestleWar '92 (unless this doesn't count as a traditional tag?)
Probably any of the other babyfaces vs Dangerous Alliance tags

I'm not functioning as well as I should on this topic. Then again, there isn't a whole slew of matches that have the 2/3 falls match beat. I'm just a sucker for a brawl hence why half of what I listed are exactly that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992

Now THAT is a fucking tag match. #11 on my WCW list, that 6 man was "only" #51 for me. Had quite a few tags above it. And the 6 man still fucking rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Knew that last pick was a safe bet. Saved me from writing out various scenarios. :hayley1


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now is the best time to talk about how awesome GAB 1992 is. Amazing tag matches, Vader/Sting, and SHINYA HASHIMOTO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LIGER showed up too. 

That piece of trash Hase ruined it for everyone. Hashimoto didn't lose it for his team. That putz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GAB 92: So amazing not a single match from the event made my top 100 WCW matches list 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c everything from BEACH BLAST '92 was robbing spots. Amirite?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I guess so . 2 matches from that show made the list .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You didn't even watch that event, yet you still put one of the worst cage matches ever on that list. Revisit that list dammit :vince5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
> 
> Now THAT is a fucking tag match.


:mark: Sure is. Was going to upload it soon, will try tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> I guess so . 2 matches from that show made the list .


:hb

My guess is the Iron Man & the babyfaces vs Dangerous Alliance. How close am I? _(Swear I'm not looking at your list either...)_

FUCK it may have been Sting vs Cactus Jack. Unless you don't love it like how I do.



The Hitman said:


> :mark: Sure is. Was going to upload it soon, will try tomorrow.


:mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We are talking about WCW tag teams and we haven't said a thing about the Steiners. Starbuck, ban us all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You got 1 right .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are talking about WCW tag teams and we haven't said a thing about the Steiners. Starbuck, ban us all.


For one, ill always love Steniers/Nasty's from HH.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm gonna watch loads of Daniel Bryan Danielson stuff tonight, but right now I'm watching Final Four 1997 for the first time EVER. Amazing at the lack of any sort of response for Stone Cold Steve Austin making his entrance.

There's no pop or heat or anything. Just silence. Bizarre! The Undertaker and Bret get a decent response, so did the fans in Tennessee just not know how to react to the ol' Rattlesnake?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal I need details you silly bastard. If I got one right, then I'm gonna assume it was the Iron Man. Maybe the other was actually the Steiners vs Miracle Violence Connection.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of fucking course the one you got right was Steamboat/Rude. Didn't think I would have even needed to clarify that one. Was in my top 10 overall. You still haven't gotten the second one .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So help me if you're pulling my leg and it's the Missy Hyatt vs Madusa bikini contest.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> I'm gonna watch loads of Daniel Bryan Danielson stuff tonight, but right now I'm watching Final Four 1997 for the first time EVER. Amazing at the lack of any sort of response for Stone Cold Steve Austin making his entrance.
> 
> There's no pop or heat or anything. Just silence. Bizarre! The Undertaker and Bret get a decent response, so did the fans in Tennessee just not know how to react to the ol' Rattlesnake?


It was before WM13, so the "double turn" hadn't happened yet. Austin was still a bit of a tweener in some towns, and despite gaining popularity by the week, was definitely not as over as Taker and Bret at the time iirc.

Plus, this is all pre-Austin/McMahon so he wasn't a mega star quite yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How have you NOT figured out the other match yet? Seriously?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's obviously got to be Pillman vs Not yet Raven. b/c there is no way it's the Bagwell match. Unless I'm blanking on Simmons vs Taylor. _(which I kind of am)_

THAT'S THE WHOLE SHOW. Screw you, I mentioned Sting vs Foley in my original post, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao

Steamboat/Rude and... 



























































Cactus/Sting .

I'm extremely bored right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I knew this was all your fault. Vintage Cal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Cactus Jack going around town with amnesia.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sinister look that haunts us all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Sting/Jack BeachBlast match is FABULOUS. And I'm not just saying that because my username is Cactus Jack. Outside of a few Vader matches (SuperBrawl III and Slamboree) and maybe 1 of the Flair matches (GAB 90') I think it might be my favorite Sting match. That's how you make a wild 10 minute brawl great.

As for the other tags you listed Hayley, I adore Cactus/Payne/Nasties (who doesn't) and really dig Cactus/Sullivan/Nasties. Not more than the 2/3 falls though. I really need to watch that Midnight Express/Southern boys tag, Zep sent me a link a few days ago and I just haven't gotten around to it. And that 8 man tag you pimped that has all the same involved plus Sting and Rude sounds like it's right up my alley.

And for the record I don't count WarGames matches, or else that 1992 and possibly the 1991 would definitely be tops. Just a personal preference when categorizing matches,

Outside of Bash at the Beach 1994, which other big singles encounters were there between Austin and Steamboat? I know I've heard of a Clash match between them before, though I've never seen it. Is it better than Bash at the Beach?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That 5/23 six man is amazing, but I still think Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zybsyko 11/19/91 is the best WCW tag (traditional). War Games '92 is the overall best 'tag' match going off my WCW Top 100.

Also had Midnight Express/Rock 'n Roll Express from Wrestlewar '90 above the Midnight Express/Southern Boys match. #8 and #9 respectively.

Steamboat/Douglas vs Pillman/Windham from Starrcade '92 is also truly fabulous.

Midnight Express/Fantastics from 4/26/88 is still numero uno for best US tag of all time though imo.

Also Cal, remember when sterling used to post here and at the other place? I miss that guy :$


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sterling is yet another guy that has disappeared. Buzz and Sterling, where you guys at?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Never had a chance to interact with Buzz Sawyer sadly, but he seemed like an amazing guy given his tastes and ability to communicate his thoughts


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:genius


WOOLCOCK said:


> That 5/23 six man is amazing, but I still think Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zybsyko 11/19/91 is the best WCW tag (traditional). War Games '92 is the overall best 'tag' match going off my WCW Top 100.
> 
> Also Cal, remember when sterling used to post here and at the other place? I miss that guy :$


Definitely need to add that to my list of WCW tags that deserve an immediate watch. So far I got:

Zybysko/Rude/Eaton/Anderson vs Sting/Dustin/Steamboat/Koloff

Southern Boys vs Midnight Express GAB

Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express WrestleWar

Steamboat/Rhodes vs Zybysko/Anderson


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That 8 man tag is superb btw, think it was #22 for me but I could easily go higher and it says more about the matches above it than it does that match itself.

Hollywood Blondes vs Bagwell/Scorpio from Worldwide 5/8/93 is also a great great match.

Arn & Windham vs DOOM @ Starrcade '90 is also tremendous and a really intense ten minute affair. A precursor to the Cactus/Sullivan vs Nasty Boys tags from '94 imo.

Flair/Arn vs Hogan/Savage from Nitro 1/8/96 and Steamboat/Gilbert vs Flair/Windham 1/21/89 would also be matches I'd say are essential viewing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tag matches from my WCW list:

Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992
Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993
War Games - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express Vs The Midnight Express - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
War Games - WrestleWar 17/05/1992
The Steiner Bothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - SuperBrawl IV 20/02/1994
Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions XVII 19/11/1991 
Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992
Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994
3 Count Vs Jung Dragons Vs Jamie Knoble & Evan Karagias - Starrcade 17/12/2000
Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho Vs The Faces of Fear - Nitro 24/02/1997
Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993
War Games - WrestleWar 24/02/1991
Sting & Ric Flair Vs Vader & Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiner Brothers - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992
Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989
Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Barry Windham & Ron Simmons - Pro 09/11/1991
War Games - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got to watch Midnight Express vs Southern Boys immediately. Worth every second and then you'll want to pop it on again.

I tried to look up the dates for Austin vs Steamboat. Site was being awful. I know they had something in the middle of the Dangerous Alliance bit in 1992.

I want to make sweet love to Cal's tag match list. Except remove that damn six man ladder match from Starrcade 2000 and give me Vader/Arn Anderson vs Stars N'Stripes over it. Then it'll be perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So uhhh... did everyone watch this yesterday? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1LYx4G7YfKs8W5mWxx

:|

Steamboat/Austin singles matches that are on my Steamboat comp to give you an idea of their matches:

Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (WWW 1/18/92)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (Main Event 6/14/92)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (WCWSN 8/1/92)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (Clash 20: 9/2/92)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (WCWSN 3/12/94)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (Bash at the Beach 7/17/94)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (WWW 7/30/94)
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (Clash 28: 8/28/94)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Terry Funk and the Great Muta vs 'The Nature Boy' Ric Flair and Sting. *






Always a favorite of mine.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

People need to stop reviewing Randy Orton matches and watch Jake/DWB like NOW.

For argument's sake, tags that made my list:

Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko (11/19/91)
Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette (2/25/90)
Southern Boys vs Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette (7/7/90)
Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton, 2/3 Falls (5/23/92)
Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman & Barry Windham (12/28/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko (2/29/92)
Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko vs Ricky Steamboat/Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes (2/22/92)
Hollywood Blondes vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio (5/8/93)
Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs Randy Savage/Lex Luger/Sting (7/7/96)
Arn Anderson & Barry Windham vs Doom, FCA (12/16/90)
Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage (1/8/96)
Hollywood Blondes vs Arn Anderson & Ric Flair, 2/3 Falls (6/17/93)
Steve Williams & Terry Gordy vs The Steiners (6/16/92)
Ricky Steamboat & Eddie Gilbert vs Ric Flair & Barry Windham (1/21/89)
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs The Nasty Boys, FCA (4/17/94)
Stars & Stripes vs Arn Anderson & Vader (4/15/95)
Faces of Fear vs Chris Jericho & Eddie Guerrero (2/24/97)
Ric Flair & Sting vs Great Muta & Dick Slater (9/12/89)
Rock 'n Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies (2/12/93)
Steve Williams & Terry Gordy vs Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (10/3/92)

+ WAR GAMES '91, '92 and '94



HayleySabin said:


> I want to make sweet love to Cal's tag match list. Except remove that damn six man ladder match from Starrcade 2000 and give me Vader/Arn Anderson vs Stars N'Stripes over it. Then it'll be perfect.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You guys are the best I'm off work tomorrow and now I've got a game plan for matches to watch. A full day of classic WCW tags, what could possibly be better?

Cal-thanks for the Steamboat/Austin list, if you had to rank the ones you've seen (if you haven't seen them all) which is the best? I love Bash at the Beach so much, it's hard to fathom they had a better match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly can't remember ANYTHING about any of their matches, I just know that I ranked this one as their best (aka the only match of theirs to make my list):

Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions 28/08/1994


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If you want another overlooked singles match CACTUS, then Arn/Dustin 1/4/92 is another gem of a match which gets very rarely discussed given the absurd quality WCW put out that year. I've seen it a few times and always come away with a great impression of it.

If you're on a Jake Roberts kick too, then you can't ignore Jake/Dustin 9/26/92 either. Looking back I think I put it too high in retrospect, but it's an excellent Jake character performance and Dustin plays his part to a tee as the frustrated and tenacious babyface who begins to lose patience with Jake's antics.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

The Triple H vs. Stone Cold 3 stages of hell is 5 star match. still holds up very well!

What do you guys think of the Owen Hart/Stone Cold series of matches?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The last time I gave my thoughts on HHH/Austin I received a very strongly worded PM from a distressed member asking me to never share my thoughts on the match ever again. Suffice it to say, I don't think highly of the match at all. Still, horses for courses.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao who PM'd you?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> :lmao who PM'd you?


Still curious about that.

But it'll probably turn out to be a jobber nobody has ever heard of. :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> :lmao who PM'd you?


As I recall it was somebody I'd barely seen in here, so it most likely was a lurker who saw me give my opinion on it whenever it was discussed (so thrice weekly) and decided to make a plea to my softer side. I'll have a mooch and see if it's still about, but I most likely deleted it sometime ago to make room.

Yeah, had a mooch through my PMs and no luck. The birk whose name escapes me won't be named and shamed today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As I recall it was somebody I'd barely seen in here, so it most likely was a lurker who saw me give my opinion on it whenever it was discussed (so thrice weekly) and decided to make a plea to my softer side. I'll have a mooch and see if it's still about, but I most likely delete it sometime ago to make room.




WOOLCOCK- Yeah1997 already smartened me up to the awesomeness that is Arn/Dustin. Just watched it for the first time about a week ago. It's spectacular. Loved the grizzled vet/young buck dynamic they work. Arn is just a pro.


Edit- it certainly wasn't me who PMd you, I'm tolerant of Triple H hate in any form, even if comes at the expense of a match I actually kinda sorta like (though not for anything Hunter did).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It really was an unrecognisable username tbh, and at the time I didn't recall the name being common with this thread. I think it was back in 2012, or at the latest early 2013 anyway and my memory is shocking so we're chasing a lost cause trying to identify the pleb really.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> It really was an unrecognisable username tbh, and at the time I didn't recall the name being common with this thread. I think it was back in 2012, or at the latest early 2013 anyway and my memory is shocking so we're chasing a lost cause trying to identify the pleb really.



I had a guy red rep me and send me a flaming PM detailing how expansive an asshole I am because I said "Ahem, Fuck KENTA" in a thread were marks were getting all excited because he is rumored to have signed with WWE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey guys this is the wwe dvd match thread get that stuff outta here 

Nah, I just got off of work these lists couldnt come at a better time


that PM Wool got about hhh/austin :banderas


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I had a guy red rep me and send me a flaming PM detailing how expansive an asshole I am because I said "Ahem, Fuck KENTA" in a thread were marks were getting all excited because he is rumored to have signed with WWE.


Eh posting something that blunt will always run the risk of that sort of response, the same way if someone made a really direct negative comment you found naive for example. I'm no real fan of KENTA bar when he works heavyweights as I find the overall structure better there and he makes for a fine underdog given his stiff style, but bar Bryan I have 0 interest in any junior match he has really bar the excellent SUWA match from '05 which I mainly adore for SUWA's king sized dickhead performance.

The PM is excessive though, but then again this place gets that much traffic that you shouldn't be shocked if some twonk finds his way here and embarrasses himself.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude vs. Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - (WCW saturday Night 2/22/92)*

x1bdctp

Your welcome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Eh posting something that blunt will always run the risk of that sort of response, the same way if someone made a really direct negative comment you found naive for example. I'm no real fan of KENTA bar when he works heavyweights as I find the overall structure better there and he makes for a fine underdog given his stiff style, but bar Bryan I have 0 interest in any junior match he has really bar the excellent SUWA match from '05 which I mainly adore for SUWA's king sized dickhead performance.
> 
> The PM is excessive though, but then again this place gets that much traffic that you shouldn't be shocked if some twonk finds his way here and embarrasses himself.


True, I probably should have back my statement up with facts but I just found it hilarious that these people were shitting all over themselves at the prospect of KENTA OMG in the WWE. I've seen some KENTA stuff I liked but the vast majority has been uninspiring at best and downright shit at worst. That's just me though.



The Hitman said:


> *Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude vs. Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - (WCW saturday Night 2/22/92)*
> 
> x1bdctp
> Your welcome.


I continue to worship the ground you walk on 


Can I officially be declared one of the biggest Eddie fans around? I'm about to listen to an hour long podcast with CHAVO just because I hope he and Jericho discuss Eddie for a few minutes. That's dedication.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't mean to say you're wrong to think low of KENTA, just that 'FUCK KENTA' to some would be the equivalent of 'lol danielson that indy geek' to you. It's just a case of a direct and forceful opinion that is likely to attract a childish response by someone who's a fan of that wrestler. The PM sounds highly excessive though.

Yeah1993 has kept his Eddie avy for years and apparently will forever so I'd say he's numero uno atm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Can I officially be declared one of the biggest Eddie fans around? I'm about to listen to an hour long podcast with CHAVO just because I hope he and Jericho discuss Eddie for a few minutes. That's dedication.


That's what I'm planning to do tomorrow when the second part comes out in which they discuss the Benoit stuff. 

Haven't heard Chavo speak on it, should be interesting because they had a conversation the night before on the phone.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I hope Chavo refers to himself as one of the unsung workers of his generation again like in that twitter bashing he did before/after Cena/Punk from MITB. I could do with a giggle.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I hope Chavo refers to himself as one of the unsung workers of his generation again like in that twitter bashing he did before/after Cena/Punk from MITB. I could do with a giggle.


lol, it's funny and sad how hard he's been leeching off Eddie's name for so many years. That's what he was doing at the time, saying something about how him and Eddie taught Cena differently.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I won't knock his performance vs Mysterio @ GAB '04, which is anything but a Mysterio carryjob and a truly excellent match. But aside from the awesome Bourne match on ECW in '08, the Masters match on Superstars in '10 and that pimped Harry Smith match on the indies from last year (?) I can't truthfully recall many impressive Chavo performances in the slightest. He just typifies a performer who does little wrong, but just struggles to do anything well enough that it captures attention. He's just 'there' for me and it's amazing how much better Eddie is at even the most basic things. The fact he appears to have a rather self-indulgent opinion of himself just makes it all the more ironic for me.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

You left out Chavo/Rey from NWO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night 13/11/1993 match, the ending was 'cut off'?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> You left out Chavo/Rey from NWO.


I don't really much of Chavo/Rey bar the GAB '04 match tbh. A lot of their series blends together and Chavo isn't the sort of guy who I'm anxious to watch more of anytime soon. Speaking of overlooked 2004 Mysterio matches though, the 1/1/04 Smackdown match vs Tajiri is really great and a fine end to their little series between September '03-January '04. 

Tajiri has a bunch of great counters and ways to quash Rey's momentum, and Mysterio works typically well underneath and builds to his comeback superbly. The outside interference is also done really well to create a Mysterio vs The World dynamic that actually adds to the match instead of being a subpar distraction as well.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I started Cyber Sunday 08 last night & so far I have enjoyed it.

Kane vs Rey Mysterio: I thought Kane looking like a bitch to Rey was really lame though, I forgot how much I hated Rey here because he would never lose a match.

Evan Bourne/Matt Hardy was fantastic of course, I like how they made you believe Bourne had a chance to actually win

Cryme Tyme vs Miz & Morrison: Another solid match in my opinion, I like how they leg work on Shad ultimately led to the demise for Cryme Tyme

Santino vs Honky Tonky Man: Bleh

Undertaker vs Big Show: This match was incredibly fun, these 2 just beat the shit out of each other & I loved every second of it.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Best match of all times?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hbk/hhh raw 97


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Hbk/hhh raw 97


Christmas match? lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingLobos said:


> Christmas match? lol


 That's a hilarious match. Love the way they both sell the match as a hard-fought contest at the end. DX with HBK was awesome :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YO SARGE, I DID IT!!!!!!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Other than WarGames 92 I would absolutely say the 5/23/92 six man is WCW's best tag. Cactus have you seen Steiners v. Williams/Gordy 6/16/92? IMO, WCW's second best tag (or third if you WarGames 92). Actually let's get my WCW list and take the tags out:




Spoiler: jhgvfc



9. Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Steve Austin v Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (WrestleWar 5/17/92)
11. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (Saturday Night 5/23/92)
15. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Clash of the Champions 6/16/92)
16. Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champions 11/19/91)
17. Ric Flair/Barry Windham/Larry Zbyszko/Sid Vicious v Sting/Brian Pillman/The Steiner Brothers (Wrestlewar 2/24/91)
18. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Barry Windham/Brian Pillman (Starrcade 12/28/92)
20. The Midnight Express v The Rock 'n' Roll Express (WrestleWar 2/25/90)
25. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
29. The Midnight Express v The Southern Boys (Great American Bash 7/7/90)
31. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Saturday Night 10/3/92)
32. Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/The Nasty Boys Sags v Bunkhouse Buck/Terry Funk/Arn Anderson/Col. Robert Parker (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
34. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
39. The Hollywood Blondes v 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell (Worldwide 5/8/93)
40. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude v Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 2/22/92)
41. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne v The Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
44. Ric Flair/Sting v The Great Muta/Dick Slater (Clash of the Champions 9/12/89)
45. Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan v The Nasty Boys (Slamboree 5/22/94)
57. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Eddie Gilbert/Lex Luger (Main Event 3/25/89)
59. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v The Midnight Express (Clash of the Champions 12/7/88)
63. Big Van Vader/Steve Austin v Ric Flair/Arn Anderson (Saturday Night 11/13/93)
65. Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Steve Austin v Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Pro 4/4/92)
75. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Ricky Steamboat/Eddie Gilbert (World Championship Wrestling 1/21/89)
85. Arn Anderson/Barry Windham v Doom (Starrcade 12/16/90)
93. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Steve Austin/Brian Pillman (Clash of the Champions 1/13/93)
95. The Steiner Brothers v The Nasty Boys (Halloween Havoc 10/27/90)
96. Arn Anderson/ Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham/Ron Simmons (Clash of the Champions 1/21/92)




Not positive I'd still like all of those that much, and this was years ago, but it is what it is. Like I remember I was the only person to vote the other Steiners/MVC (Beach Blast), and I had it as high as 25 when no one else even thought it should hit 100. No idea how some of this stuff holds up. I am completely positive that some of it would, though. I know I can look at the Clash 9/12/89 tag or Blondes/Scorp & Broomstick and they'd still be terrific. I am 3000% positive the Clash Steiners/MVC would hold up as amazing.

Also yes before it's pointed out....I'm pretty sure I had Steiners/Nasty Boys way, way, way too low. I also had Vader/Boss at 97. Goddamn.




WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah1993 has kept his Eddie avy for years and apparently will forever so I'd say he's numero uno atm.


:$ I doubt I'm Eddie's BIGGEST fan, but yeah, I've had this avatar since, I think, May of 2010. 



The Hitman said:


> The Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night 13/11/1993 match, the ending was 'cut off'?


Yeah, they ran out of TV time because the match goes 830 minutes and WCW just ends the show. IIRC they air the finish the next week or on a different show or something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

From another thread, i don't remember seeing Flair/Savage II on Prime Time Wrestling.  What is it like?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

pretty short iirc, came across it a while ago but never got to watch it fully


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Other than WarGames 92 I would absolutely say the 5/23/92 six man is WCW's best tag. Cactus have you seen Steiners v. Williams/Gordy 6/16/92? IMO, WCW's second best tag (or third if you WarGames 92). Actually let's get my WCW list and take the tags out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That list is fantastic, I'm totally set for early WCW tag team goodness for the weekend. And no, I haven't seen Steiner's/Dr. Death and Bam bam Gordy, but that sounds AMAZING on paper, if it's executed the way I hope it is. My favorite Steiner's tag I've seen to this point (granted, only about 5 matches total) is their match in Japan vs Vader and Bigelow. Dr. Death and Gordy sounds like a fun tag team to watch. I've seen plenty of Steve Williams Mod South stuff, but really nothing from Japan where I hear he did his best work.


First things first though, I need to watch this Jake Roberts match Cal has been all about these past few days. After that, it's straight WCW tags for the rest of the weekend, starting with that Midnight Express GaB tag then going onto the 8 man.


----------



## Yogalyn (Oct 1, 2013)

*Just watched WM20 match between Benoit, HBK and HHH*

OMG that was a great match =)


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

HH was pretty good in it.


----------



## Yogalyn (Oct 1, 2013)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

WWE could so do that now with Triple H, HBK and Bryan lmao


----------



## BigSams50 (Jul 22, 2010)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

Too bad that match doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

One of the best WM main events of all-time, that's for sure.


----------



## Yogalyn (Oct 1, 2013)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

I agree, Absolute great show in all


----------



## hitmanclarke (Apr 12, 2013)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*



RyanPelley said:


> HH was pretty good in it.


I love Hunter Hearst.


----------



## JAROTO (Nov 4, 2011)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*

I was there :cool2


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Hey guys, I was pretty bored earlier today and decided to make my list of best matches of every year since 2003 when I started watching.

Here is the list:

2003: HBK vs. Y2J - Wrestlemania 19
2004: HBK vs. Benoit vs. HHH - Wrestlemania 20
2005: HBK vs. Angle - Wrestlemania 21
2006: Angle vs. Taker - No Way Out
2007: HBK vs. Cena - RAW April 23rd
2008: Edge vs. Taker - SummerSlam 
2009: HBK vs. Taker - Wrestlemania 25
2010: Bryan vs. Ziggler - Bragging Rights
2011: Cena vs. Punk - Money In The Bank
2012: Bryan vs. Punk - Over the Limit
2013: Bryan vs. Cena - SummerSlam.

What do you think of my list?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

NastyYaffa said:


> What do you think of my list?


I think you like "vanilla midgets".


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Re: Just watched WM20 match between benoit, hbk and hh*



RyanPelley said:


> HH was pretty good in it.



I thought that match was ALL Benoit. I hate most Hunter/Shawn matches, throw Benoit in there and you get a universally praised 5 star classic. Wonder why that is 

Roberts/Dirty white boy was fun Cal, Jake was just a riot in that match. Wonder how messed up he was, he was killing me with how he was reenacting things for the ref to show him what really happened.

That 8 man tag with Rude/Zybysko/Arn/Eaton vs Sting/Dustin/Windham/Steamboat was phenomenal, but I think I still prefer the 2/3 Falls 6 man to it.n I'm having a cigarette now but I've got Southern Boys/midnight express loading upstairs in my room. Can't wait to see what all the fuss is about


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I think you like "vanilla midgets".


Ya gotta luv 'em!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> That 8 man tag with Rude/Zybysko/Arn/Eaton vs Sting/Dustin/Windham/Steamboat was phenomenal, but I think I still prefer the 2/3 Falls 6 man to it.n I'm having a cigarette now but I've got Southern Boys/midnight express loading upstairs in my room. Can't wait to see what all the fuss is about


The fuss is mus...t. 

I got no words left. I've talked up the beauty more times than I've hit on a pale dame. It's time.



The Hitman said:


> *Terry Funk and the Great Muta vs 'The Nature Boy' Ric Flair and Sting. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, I'm trying to finish up the little bit of current 2014 I need to watch, but all of this WCW is sidetracking me. Not complaining tho.



WOOLCOCK said:


>


Idk how anyone could leave off a match that had VADER teaming up w/ARN ANDERSON, tbhayley. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> As I recall it was somebody I'd barely seen in here, so it most likely was a lurker who saw me give my opinion on it whenever it was discussed (so thrice weekly) and decided to make a plea to my softer side. I'll have a mooch and see if it's still about, but I most likely deleted it sometime ago to make room.
> 
> Yeah, had a mooch through my PMs and no luck. The birk whose name escapes me won't be named and shamed today.


Gorgeous.



Cactus Jack said:


> I had a guy red rep me and send me a flaming PM detailing how expansive an asshole I am because I said "Ahem, Fuck KENTA" in a thread were marks were getting all excited because he is rumored to have signed with WWE.


KENTA's uber fans are really sensitive.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The fuss is mus...t.
> 
> I got no words left. I've talked up the beauty more times than I've hit on a pale dame. It's time.
> 
> ...




After watching Midnight/Southern Boys, I've only got one word to say. As Ron Simmons would say "DAMN". That was absolutely unbelievable. So many good things I don't know where to start. The fucking Karate :lmao, Cornette on the outside, Beautiful Bobby backing down after getting repeatedly kicked in the face, the Southern boys trying to pin everyone at once, and finally the glorious hot tag and finish. That was a perfect match. As of now THAT has a the SLIGHTEST edge over the 2/3 Falls match as my favorite ever, but I'm gonna rewatch it first thing in the morning to be sure. I don't know what is wrong with me, why I waited so long to partake in this classic.

After that I watched Cactus Jack/Vader Texas Death Match. I think I might like this even more than their much more heralded Saturday Night massacre. A short 10 minute sprint with some bad ass brawling, ridiculous bumps from Jack (that power bomb on the concrete...oof) and even Harley race taking a back drop on the cold hard concrete. I miss having managers in matches, I wish WWE used Wiley vets like Dutch more for some younger heels. A great heel manager can make a match so much more entertaining.

Finally I finished up with Steamboat/Auston COTC. I recently watched their BatB match and thought that was as good as it gets for them. Boy was I wrong, this match was A LOT better, which is really saying something. Non stop wrestling, Steve Austin really was one of the best workers ever in his prime, I think he might have even out worked Steamboat in this match, which is nearly impossible to do. The series of near falls in the end was very reminiscent of the WM 3 match with Savage and Steamer. Great, great match, top 20 in WCW history.

Back to some tags, I think I'm going with the Dr. death/Terry Gordy vs Steiner's match if I can find it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching a Mguiness/Danielson match(rising above 2008)

is this the best one?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao not even CLOSE to their best. Driven, 6 Year Anniversary and Unified are the cream of the crop.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody, Sono put me on that ishii/shhibata match, thoughts ?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Cody, Sono put me on that ishii/shhibata match, thoughts ?


Watched this earlier today :genius, probably like 10th time since it happened in August. They have two matches fwiw. First is better but second is nothing to sneeze at either.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Another underrated match from 2005. What do you think about this? It's a Heel vs Heel match, btw (& I know most of you like Heel/Heel Matches, l0l). Even though Edge looks more like a Face in it.

I would say though that Edge & Triple H have no chemistry, whatsoever, but the match still turned out good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

King Cal said:


> :lmao not even CLOSE to their best. Driven, 6 Year Anniversary and Unified are the cream of the crop.


I had just started and wanted to make sure 

gonna find the two you mentioned in my Danielson pack


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> After watching Midnight/Southern Boys, I've only got one word to say. As Ron Simmons would say "DAMN". That was absolutely unbelievable. So many good things I don't know where to start. The fucking Karate :lmao, Cornette on the outside, Beautiful Bobby backing down after getting repeatedly kicked in the face, the Southern boys trying to pin everyone at once, and finally the glorious hot tag and finish. That was a perfect match. As of now THAT has a the SLIGHTEST edge over the 2/3 Falls match as my favorite ever, but I'm gonna rewatch it first thing in the morning to be sure. I don't know what is wrong with me, why I waited so long to partake in this classic.


Boosh. Instant success. I almost wanted to give a little tid bit in my last posts simply saying "KARATE". It was best to let the surprise - even though Lane did it more than once - flow through. Even better in how it was one of his kicks which led to the finish of the match. Brilliant. By the time the match was over crowd was going so nuts for the Express. It's unreal. For as well as they were used, they really could have gotten better treatment by WCW. I suppose I shouldn't complain. Eaton had a great run. Bah. There's always "he could have been more" lingering over a bunch of cats in wrestling. It's perfection. That's all that needs to be said. I can't give Jim Cornette any gripes for his bitching in wrestling b/c of how great he was during this time. He won me over too long ago to care about today.



SMITTY said:


> Watching a Mguiness/Danielson match(rising above 2008)
> 
> is this the best one?


I'm a subscriber to Danielson vs Nigel from the 6th Anniversary show as their best match. Largely for the amazing character interactions that developed throughout the night & match. Gave it so much more. Unified would rank up as #2. Not sure where I'd have Rising Above. Maybe #4, behind Driven. Then again I know I'm always underrating their Two out of Three Falls match, that I've been dying to re-watch for the longest time. Set on Generation Now having to be their weakest; yet it's still a very good match. That's the curve.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

I wanna watch some 1995 WWF tonight since im off tomorrow. I know its heavily regarded as a crap year but the few Superstars episodes I watched left me wanting to watch more. Anyone recommend some good matches from that year?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Cody, Sono put me on that ishii/shhibata match, thoughts ?


It's pure fucking insanity. IMMENSE MOLTEN HEAT. I still have nightmares about taking Shibata's corner dropkick the way Ishii did.


----------



## ADN (Feb 11, 2007)

Danielson/McGuinness from Weekend of Champions Night 2 is pretty good too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Back to some tags, I think I'm going with the Dr. death/Terry Gordy vs Steiner's match if I can find it.


this is the 'right' one. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...vs-steve-williams-terry-gordy-clash-xix_sport


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It's pure fucking insanity. IMMENSE MOLTEN HEAT. I still have nightmares about taking Shibata's corner dropkick the way Ishii did.


The one that happens right in the first few minutes of the match? Good heavens, I seriously thought Shibata was going to break Ishii's face entirely. I thought the one Danielson gave Rollins in their match on Raw was absolutely killer, but THAT corner drop kick makes Danielson's look like it tickled.



Yeah1993 said:


> this is the 'right' one. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...vs-steve-williams-terry-gordy-clash-xix_sport



Thank you kindly. Now go watch Lesnar/Punk already. And post your thoughts while you're at it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want to look at how long Lesnar/Punk went on Wikipedia but I honestly don't even know who won and don't want it spoiled. How long is it?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I want to look at how long Lesnar/Punk went on Wikipedia but I honestly don't even know who won and don't want it spoiled. How long is it?


logical booking says x wins...even the 'E couldn't screw it up. i'm sure you can figure it out. it went 25:17. one second longer than Cena/Bryan :cheer


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Watched this earlier today :genius, probably like 10th time since it happened in August. They have two matches fwiw. First is better but second is nothing to sneeze at either.


Oh ok, I'm guessing it was the #1 one i watched, it was short under 13 mins long and he said he gave it 5* so it must be that one



HayleySabin said:


> It's pure fucking insanity. IMMENSE MOLTEN HEAT. I still have nightmares about taking Shibata's corner dropkick the way Ishii did.


Yea epic stuff lol as soon as the match started I was sucked it, just the forearms to each other :lenny and then those showing each's toughness and tolerance


I also watch Show/taker No Mercy for the first time, incredible stuff, loved every minute of it. Two guys beating the shit out of each other. Gota watch more of both men from that year


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I want to look at how long Lesnar/Punk went on Wikipedia but I honestly don't even know who won and don't want it spoiled. How long is it?



Make sure you watch the prematch hype video, it's one of the better ones I've seen from WWE in recent memory.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> The one that happens right in the first few minutes of the match? Good heavens, I seriously thought Shibata was going to break Ishii's face entirely. I thought the one Danielson gave Rollins in their match on Raw was absolutely killer, but THAT corner drop kick makes Danielson's look like it tickled.


That's the one. A Shibata staple. Only one other kick has come close to matching that. Trying to remember which one it was; may have been Shibata vs Honma in late 2013, if not Shibata vs Goto from the recent Wrestle Kingdom. Point being, he murders folks w/it. But the Ishii one. Too much.



SKINS said:


> Oh ok, I'm guessing it was the #1 one i watched, it was short under 13 mins long and he said he gave it 5* so it must be that one
> 
> 
> Yea epic stuff lol as soon as the match started I was sucked it, just the forearms to each other :lenny and then those showing each's toughness and tolerance
> ...


Yeah, it's a sprint through and through. Wouldn't expect those two to go long after how taxing the match was after only a few minutes. Still bossy to have Ishii score the big win over Shibata. Who was, still kind of is, untouchable in the win/loss department.

Undertaker vs Show stuff is magnificent. Watch the casket for a laugh. All the other three are something else. Undertaker 2008. Bless him. Even when Edge tanked, Taker's performances makes the match not a complete waste. <3333


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

WillMark4NewJack said:


> I wanna watch some 1995 WWF tonight since im off tomorrow. I know its heavily regarded as a crap year but the few Superstars episodes I watched left me wanting to watch more. Anyone recommend some good matches from that year?


Bret Hart vs. Diesel at Royal Rumble '95
Bret Hart vs. Hakushi at In Your House 1
Bret Hart vs. Diesel at Survivor Series 95
Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett at In Your House 2
Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte at In Your House 3
Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith at In Your House 5 (Seasons Beatings) (MOTY, IMO)
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon at Summerslam '95


Off the top of my head....

'95 was the Bret and Shawn show, basically. Maybe there are other matches that are just not coming to mind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Jean-Pierre Lafitte matches are overrated. Didn't think they were special. To add some more to the list ^:

Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett - Royal Rumble (This is honestly probably MOTY)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka vs 1-2-3 Kid & Bob Holly (or this is MOTY. Terrific)
Bam Bam Bigelow vs Lawrence Taylor - WM XI
Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett/The Roadie - IYH #1
Bret Hart vs Jerry Lawler - IYH #1 & King of the Ring
Owen Hart & Yokozuna vs Allied Powers - IYH The Lumberjacks
1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi - SummerSlam
Razor Ramon & 1-2-3 Kid vs Smoking Guns - IYH Great White North
Team 1-2-3 Kid vs Team Jannetty - Survivor Series
Team Alundra Blayze vs Team Aja Kong - Survivor Series
Team Michaels vs Team Owen _(Wild Card match iirc and pretty good on memory)_ - Survivor Series
Razor Ramon & Marty Jannetty vs Psycho Sid & 1-2-3 Kid - IYH Season's Beatings

The only matches I remember from WM all suck, except I remember having fun w/the "main event". So it's getting a mention. Dunno too much from TV that year. You can try Michaels vs Smith sometime before WM. It was kind of billed as the "winner gets the official Royal Rumble win" by proxy of the controversy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Undertaker do anything that year?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, not really. A lot of his matches were put on the backburner and he felt like he went through the motions to work vs some random big dude every few months. Don't think the matches vs Kama or Mabel were very bad, I'll probably like them if I relived 'em soon, but I don't exactly recall them being noteworthy. Which is why they got the snub. Don't mind his match vs King Kong Bundy either, so yeah. Give all these a try too. What the hell.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Already have. You know how I feel about fatties.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of fatties, Mark Henry returns next week. Wonder what they have in store for him. I could go for some more Henry/Sheamus slog fests. Or more Henry/Bryan. Or Henry/Cesaro? I wonder if Cesaro could swing him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping he ends up as a monster heel again, because the WWE is definitely thin on heels at the moment. :henry1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Already have. You know how I feel about fatties.


Disgraceful, sir.



Saint Dick said:


> Speaking of fatties, Mark Henry returns next week. Wonder what they have in store for him. I could go for some more Henry/Sheamus slog fests. Or more Henry/Bryan. Or Henry/Cesaro? I wonder if Cesaro could swing him.


Mark Henry vs Drew McIntyre: best of 15 series. 

They can pull if off.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Rock vs Steve Austin Wrestlemania 19 is literally 5 stars or close. Wrestlemania 17 bout is inferior when compared.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The Rock vs Steve Austin Wrestlemania 19 is literally 5 stars or close. Wrestlemania 17 bout is inferior when compared.


well that's like, your opinion :shocked: . I've never seen their match at WM 19 :faint: . Someday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im probably the only one who nearly adores the WM17 match. Havn't seen the WM19 in years, so that needs a rewatch.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> well that's like, your opinion :shocked: . I've never seen their match at WM 19 :faint: . Someday.


How haven't you seen it?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Im probably the only one who nearly adores the WM17 match.


Nup, it's amazing. Blows away WMXIX. The latter has meaningless random leg work in the middle and doesn't really kick into the max gear to me. words from last watch less than a year ago:



> Steve Austin v. The Rock (WrestleMania 3/30/03)
> The beginning of this felt like a great feud-continuer or something. Austin chucking the Rock around, Rocky pinballing everywhere and taking rough-looking bumps on clotheslines outside - all the material for a potentially great feud..... squashy...match. YOU GET IT. I don't really love the rest of this. It's good- very good- work, and I can't talk bad about very good work, yet I don't always consider it something remarkable either. Rocky works the leg, Austin kind of forgets about it somewhere. I'm all for limb work as filler. I mean 'filler' makes it sound like I'm insulting it, but it isn't every match where every move is the most important thing in the world. If your 'filler' is limb work, well, that's good filler. Still, I don't like it being forgotten about. Austin was selling it really well, too. Shame. So after that something happens. It's mostly finish-trading, which is done well, but I'm kind of over it. Rocky putting on Austin's vest was obviously awesome and they use each other's moves which was cool. I really have nothing bad to say about this but at the same time I wasn't watching it with 'holy shit this is great' thoughts running through my head. Very good match, though. Still Mania 17 fucking obliterates this.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Im probably the only one who nearly adores the WM17 match. Havn't seen the WM19 in years, so that needs a rewatch.


I find the WM 17 to be better up until the end, but overall it is a better match. WM 19 was more so for the moment.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Im probably the only one who nearly adores the WM17 match. Havn't seen the WM19 in years, so that needs a rewatch.


Nope. 17 > 19 for me too. 

I heard Orton/Bryan on Raw was good but honestly I can't bring myself to watch these guys face each other again. The amount of matches they've had in the last year is excessive to the point that I just don't care any more. I do look forward to heel Orton vs. Seamus though whenever that pops up. Seems like SD has a couple of decent things to look out for on it too. 

Personally I just want them to decide on the Mania card so we can move forward and start building the programs because until they do we're stuck in this ridiculous limbo where nothing is happening to advance anything. It's horrible.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Watching a Mguiness/Danielson match(rising above 2008)
> 
> is this the best one?


6th Anniversary Show is their best by a fair margin imo. On top of the usual assured chemistry, you get a rare but engrossing babyface/heel dynamic with the match marking the culmination of Nigel's teased heel turn, which sees him attempt to leave the match after Danielson accidentally suplexes him after previously agreeing to stay away from Nigel's head. The locker room show up and force McGuinness to finish the match, which then sees him execute a king-sized dickhead performance, with the entire arena passionately supporting Bryan and loudly jeering McGuinness. From there, you get a fantastic Danielson babyface performance, an even better Nigel heel performance and the finish is absolutely amazing from a storytelling perspective.



Spoiler: the finish



Nigel uses his 'injured' head that he demanded Bryan stay away from when accepting the match, and headbutts Bryan repeatedly in the eye where Bryan detached his retina against Morishima months before. Bryan struggles to see and Nigel uses it to hit the Lariat and finally beat Danielson.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Popular match i thought id upload:

*Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho vs. The Faces of Fear (WCW Nitro 2/24/97)*

x1bfg3w


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Im not a HUGE fan of WM 17 in general, HHH/Taker is my MOTN in all honesty 

WM 19 is ****3/4 and a MOTYC


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Everyone needs to watch Eddie/Jericho vs Faces of Fear btw. Incredibly entertaining ten minute affair with FOF looking murderous and destructive on offence, with Eddie and Jericho finding fun ways to circumnavigate the power of the FOF and overcome them. Perfect TV tag which uses the ten minutes to maximum effect and exemplifies why tag team wrestling is almost impossible to screw up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone needs to watch all of the Eddie/Jericho tags. They're my pride and joy. The El Paso match they had was even better than the FOF match.

Professor Sheeppenis, what hidden gems from Tully Blanchard would you recommend?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm assuming you've seen the Rockers/Brainbusters series from '89 in WWF? I think Cal put their series on his dailymotion channel, and I did a write up of a few of their matches in the old thread & the classic wrestling discussion thread. Arn & Tully are exemplary at stooging and working comedy spots in the babyface shine, before transitioning into loathesome dickheads in control, and the long running theme of The Rockers gradually learning from The Brainbusters and adopting some of their 'rule bending' techniques is a fine development. I don't think the tags are as good as your peak JCP/WCW tags, if only because at times the heel in peril opening segments can be a bit too long for my tastes, but you're still getting a great match.

Aside from that, you can't go wrong with the Ron Garvin 5/3/86 Worldwide match, which is as good a TV match as I've ever seen and one of the best matches of the 80s. Blanchard is spectacular and it's a real treat to see him work a long title match, with Garvin's injured hand being utilised to perfection, and the finish is as good a heartbreaker as you'll see.

There's also a fabulous Blanchard/Steamboat match I recall reading about but for the life of me I can't recall where. I'll have a mooch at a couple of places I sometimes visit and see if I can locate it, because I'm sure it wasn't the Starrcade match but it was getting a lot of praise.

In the meantime, here's Blanchard/Eric Embry from 1/31/83. I've not seen it myself, but apparently this is a good showcase for Tully's offence, as opposed to Tully the stooge/cowardly heel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDBsQWkZOE


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've honestly flip flopped about a dozen times about which Rock/Austin match I enjoy more, 17 or 19. Right now 17 is the match I prefer, it just seems so much more heated and important, and the brawling is some of the best I've seen from either guy. I haven't watched either in a few months, maybe when I'm done with my WCW kick I'll get back to them.

I fell asleep before I could watch it, Steiner's vs Dr. Death and Bam Bam up next.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

best woman match of all time?

Trish/Lita from late 2004 is awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

May upload *Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko vs. Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Clash 17: 11/19/91)* if i can tonight.  Last one for a couple of weeks then.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Watched the 2010 EC matches yesterday.

Both were ok, but not that interesting.

So far:

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 (HHH vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit)
2. Survivor Series 2002 (HHH vs HBK vs Jericho vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Booker T)
3. No Way Out 2009 (John Cena vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Mike Knox V vs Rey Mysterio)
4. No Way Out 2009 (HHH vs Undertaker vs Big Show vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Vladimir Kozlov)
5. No Way Out 2008 (HHH vs Chris Jericho vs JBL vs HBK vs Jeff Hardy vs Umaga)
6. Summerslam 2003 (HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs Randy Orton vs Jericho)
7. Elimination Chamber 2010 (Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs John Cena vs Triple H vs Ted Dibiase vs Kofi Kingston)
8. Elimination Chamber 2010 (Undertaker vs Chris Jericho vs R-Truth vs Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk vs John Morrison)
9. No Way Out 2008 (MVP vs Batista vs Finlay vs Khali vs Big Daddy V vs Undertaker)
10. December to Dismember 2006 (Big Show vs Test vs RVD vs CM Punk vs Bobby Lashley vs Hardcore Holly)
11. New Year's Revolution 2006 (Kane vs Chris Masters vs HBK vs John Cena vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle)

Watching the 2011 ones now.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> best woman match of all time?
> 
> Trish/Lita from late 2004 is awesome.




Strictly WWE? Probably the 4v4 from SS 95, maybe Mickie/Trish from WM 22 but I haven't seen either for the longest of times.
I'd have Gail Kim vs. Awesome Kong from Final Resolution ahead of both if you want to include TNA.
Granted, I haven't seen a great deal of women's wrestling outside of the two major promotions, all I do know is that MsChif vs. Amazing Kong from SHIMMER 9 is by far and away the greatest women's wrestling match I've ever seen and is a match that could easily have been a MOTNC (if not MOTN) on any card around the world tbh, men or women. Here's what I wrote about it a few weeks back



> *Amazing Kong vs. MsChif || SHIMMER 9 4/7/07 ||*
> I adored this. Genuinely. This rules the world. Everyone put away your preconceived misconceptions about women's wrestling and watch this right now because I guarantee this is far better than a lot of stuff you'll watch. Going in to the match, I'm wasn't quite sure who the face and who the heel was based on crowd reaction. However, one would presume Kong was the heel simply due to her being a monster and MsChif being a lot smaller. Despite that, though, the stuff Kong does and the way she just dominates MsChif... You can't help for but cheer and like her as a competitor. And then, as soon as you've just started liking Kong for her incredible offense, you all of a sudden like MsChif more because she times and performs her comeback tremendously. In the end, you just end up cheering for both and popping at every little thing that they do because it's that damn good. Kong destroys MsChif, MsChif bumps like a loon and does well with her comeback and the move that finishes the match is fucking sick. I. LOVE. IT. Such a simple structured match full to the brim with violence and innovation and a match where you simply can';t help but hang on every single little thing either girl does.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dr. Death/Terry Gordy vs The Steiners

I don't know if it's the fact that I just drank a quadruple espresso or not, but this match had me positively riveted. I love how they start things out with some classic amateur style wrestling. These teams have no real history that I'm aware of, so it's smart to have the feeling out process. One thing to note, this isn't Benoit/Angle style speed amateur wrestling, nor is it Finlay/Regal style mat wrestling. This is two men close to 300 pounds each jockeying for control and fighting to get away. IT'S AWESOME. Finally Dr. Death slaps the taste out of Rick Steiners mouth (Rick, by the way, is wearing the most atrocious singlet I have ever seen. If you drank every flavor slurpee from 7-11 at once, then puked all over a white singlet, that's what it would look like) and Rick shoots one of the fastest double legs I've seen this side of Brock Lesnar and just starts wailing and throwing bombs on Dr. Death. Scotty tags in and gets his leg worked over badly by Dr. Death and Gordy, some classic tag team tactics ensue with the ref missing Scotty's tag to Rick. Dr. Death does this awesome Oklahoma 3 point stance shoulder tackle to Scotty on the concrete that looks awesome. Oh, I forgot to mention, Gordy and Williams do one of my new favorite tag team moves ever. Gordy hoists Scotty up onto his shoulders in a firemans carry, then Williams kneels in front of Gordy with one knee propped up, and Gordy flings Scotty off of his shoulders stomach first down onto Williams knee for a sickening gut buster. Just awesome looking.

What a match, this is absolutely in my top 3 for favorite WCW Tag Team matches, behind only the GAB 90 ME/SB match and the 2/3 Falls. I might have this at the same level as the 2/3 Falls actually, this was just amazing.


Thanks again Yeah


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I can't really recall many women's matches in WWE that I've truthfully enjoyed, but if we're talking all promotions I'd struggle to think of a women's match better than the Kudo/Toyota Barbed Wire match. My viewing of 80s-early 90s Joshi isn't extensive, so there may be a few gems there however.

Kong/Satomura '06 and Yoshida/Fujii '03 are also tremendous.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know Ive actually never seen rock/austin wm 17 or any of the ppv besides hhh/taker, and that I thought was pretty weak and by far the worst of the trilogy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Strictly WWE? Mickie/Trish from WM 22 but I haven't seen either for the


*Mickie James vs Trish Stratus - Wrestlemania 22 Live PPV Version - Unedited*

x18vsus


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The definitive version right there. Wonder if that video was an upload of my original upload of the unedited match .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> The definitive version right there. Wonder if that video was an upload of my original upload of the unedited match .


Nope. From my own DVD.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

What was cut from that unedited video (haven't watched it yet)?

Also just watched Smackdown, it aired here in Germany:

Cesaro / Bryan was awesome.
Sheamus / Ryback was surprisingly good.
Goldust / Wyatt was disappointing. Way too short.
Christian / Orton was good.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

DoubtGin said:


> What was cut from that unedited video (haven't watched it yet)?
> 
> Also just watched Smackdown, it aired here in Germany:
> 
> ...


I knew Sheamus would carry that Ryback to a good match, Sheamus is underrated. 

Everyone knew Cesaro and Bryan would be awesome, those two can't have a bad match.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SKINS said:


> You know Ive actually never seen rock/austin wm 17 or any of the ppv besides hhh/taker, and that I thought was pretty weak and by far the worst of the trilogy






 Rating**** 1/2





 Rating: **** 3/4





 Rating:**
​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> What was cut from that unedited video (haven't watched it yet)?


Some 'woman-y actions'.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh Mickie


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey Mickie you're so fine you're so fine you blow my mind hey Mickie...

Also includes the "botch" finish that was cut from the DVD that always confused me. Mickie goes after Trish's legs the entire match... Trish's leg buckles on her trying to do her finisher, Mickie takes advantage and wins... and apparently that's a botch and needed to be cut from the match? Faking Booolshit.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

If that's how she wins, how does the edited match end?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match ends the same, but cuts Trish "botching" her finish.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Nope. 17 > 19 for me too.
> 
> I heard Orton/Bryan on Raw was good but honestly I can't bring myself to watch these guys face each other again. The amount of matches they've had in the last year is excessive to the point that I just don't care any more. I do look forward to heel Orton vs. Seamus though whenever that pops up. Seems like SD has a couple of decent things to look out for on it too.
> 
> Personally I just want them to decide on the Mania card so we can move forward and start building the programs because until they do we're stuck in this ridiculous limbo where nothing is happening to advance anything. It's horrible.


If your sick of that then your going to love RAWS Main Event next week :hhh2


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> How haven't you seen it?


Never cared to see the match out of the AE I guess, idk. Perhaps I'll watch it today. I've had it d/l'ed for over two years now. I find it hard to believe it could be better than WM 17 though, that match was :mark:


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Who likes the world title triple threat match from wrestlemania 22?

The match is a bit short but fast paced with some good spots. kurt angle entrance is amazing. :mark: rko and 619 didn't look too bad in the match too. the finish is nice. *** 1/2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I watched New Years Revolution 2005 last night & I did not realize how bad this show was 

I literally have no desire to ever watch matches 2-4 ever again on that show

The opener is nothing special either but at least the crowd is hot for it.

But that Elimination Chamber is still :mark: :mark: :mark:



> *Who likes the world title triple threat match from wrestlemania 22?*


How can you not like it? I always have fun with that match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I like Kane vs. Snitsky more than the opener tbh


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, New Year's Resolution 2005 EC match was good.

Which EC match is your favorite?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Flux said:


> I like Kane vs. Snitsky more than the opener tbh


Oh yeah me too it's not even close.

That match is bowling shoe ugly as JR would say :lol



> Which EC match is your favorite?


Mine is probably 2002.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Which EC match is your favorite?


The first hands down! pretty fuckin epic and hbk last world title win.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Mine is probably 2002.


Inaugural Elimination Chamber Match

:mark::mark::mark:

Agreed. Was a damn good match. 

Eliminaton Chamber has produced a few good matches, definitely. Even though I am not consistently watching WWE shows ATM, I am looking forward to watching this year's EC match. Bryan, Cesaro, and Christian all in one match... likely to produce a quality match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Inaugural Elimination Chamber Match
> 
> :mark::mark::mark:
> 
> ...


And SHEAMUS!

I just hope they don't make this chamber suck, I have very little faith in WWE to do anything good anymore.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

For the talent in the match, you gotta almost try to make the chamber match bad. Thing with Chamber matches is they can be over booked when guys should feel like some control to adapt to what's happening instead of setting up spots.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Sheamus is underrated in the ring, though I haven't been a fan of the character he's been portraying since he beat Bryan at WM. Hopefully he sticks with the badass tough guy gimmick, and not the babyface who acts like a heel.

And yeah, I could see them ruining a potentially great Chamber match via bad booking of who comes out when, etc


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Sheamus is underrated in the ring, though I haven't been a fan of the character he's been portraying since he beat Bryan at WM. Hopefully he sticks with the badass tough guy gimmick,* and not the babyface who acts like a heel.*
> 
> And yeah, I could see them ruining a potentially great Chamber match via bad booking of who comes out when, etc


I think you have Sheamus confused with Randy Orton bro


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NYR 05 chamber> All

watching SD ATM


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

He has certainly done some heel-like things as a face, like stealing Del Rio's car and driving around town with it, during Raw.

Also, trying to attack Sandow while unprovoked on SD, while Sandow was giving him the "intelligence test".


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> He has certainly done some heel-like things as a face, like stealing Del Rio's car and driving around town with it, during Raw.
> 
> Also, trying to attack Sandow while unprovoked on SD, while Sandow was giving him the "intelligence test".


That's viable to an extent, I see it as Sheamus just beating Del Rio to the punch & one upping him.

When you think about it a lot of faces do stuff like that, you can't always have the heel provoke everything and make the face look like a bitch.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> That's viable to an extent, I see it as Sheamus just beating Del Rio to the punch & one upping him.
> 
> When you think about it a lot of faces do stuff like that, you can't always have the heel provoke everything and make the face look like a bitch.


That makes sense, but there are some segments of faces doing stuff like that that make it hard to cheer for them. Like, when a wrestler assaults a heel wrestler who hasn't done anything wrong, yet, that is kind of annoying. 

For instance, you mentioned Orton. Orton, as a face, hitting Dolph with an RKO in this segment makes no sense, and makes him look more like the bully and not the "good guy".


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont babyfaces have to have atleast one quality people like and want to cheer for ? Yea p.sure thats not Randy Orton Murderface 


Havent watched a pre 05 ec in a very long time, I remember the 2005 one being GOAT and near 5* but I also love both 09s and 2011 with the raw 09 and sd 11 sticking out


Found the 2002 one to be overrated outside of the winner and post win celebration :banderas


Edit: ^^ I think there is a difference between face sheamus and orton


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Dont babyfaces have to have atleast one quality people like and want to cheer for ? Yea p.sure thats not Randy Orton Murderface
> 
> 
> Havent watched a pre 05 in a very long time, I remember the 2005 one being GOAT and near 5* but I also love both 09s and 2011 with the raw 09 and sd 11 sticking out
> ...


Both Sheamus and Orton as face act like heels a lot of the time. It is acceptable, in measure, but there needs to be a limit. Orton, at least, I would say, as a face, these past few years, has had more of a "lone wolf" type character, who hasn't really bothered anyone who hadn't bothered him, so to speak. On the most part. Even so, segments like that one point to the point(o pun intended) what I am trying to make. 

Face Sheamus has acted like a heel a bit too often for my liking. I like his character more as King Sheamus.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I think you have Sheamus confused with Randy Orton bro


I don't think so. I do think people overdo it with Sheamus being unlikable but last year in the feud with Mizark, I was starting to root against him because he started acting like a douche several times, including that arm wrestling contest. And he also made unfunny jokes at times.

At least with Orton, he was honest about not giving a fuck about or liking anyone which was one of the reasons fans took a liking to him in the first place.



SMITTY said:


> NYR 05 chamber> All


Yep. It's crazy how when something features Benoit, it's automatically better than all its peers.  Goes for Smackdown 2003, Raw 2004, MITB and Elimination Chamber just to name a few.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

OK but if look into Sheamus character, it at its core was just "a big Irish guy who loves to fight" no matter who it was. Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont remember him "picking" on other faces, just remember him beating the shit outta heels while trying to rally up the crowd


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

He was basically picking on Sandow during his mini-feud with him. He was also pretty bad at some points of his feud with ADR, when it comes to not acting like a total heel.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SD ratings 

Bryan/Cesaro: ****(SO AWESOME)

Ryback/Sheamus: **1/2

Orton/Christian: ***1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok then maybe your right, but tbh there really arent heels and faces anymore. What I mean is, besides Cena,Orton and Daniel Bryan and maybe ADR who are heels and who are babyfaces ?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> SD ratings
> 
> Bryan/Cesaro: ****(SO AWESOME)
> 
> ...


I'd give Ryback/Sheamus a ***-***1/4 but I agree with the others.

Great matches.

edit: watched Sheamus/Ryback again, I really like it


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Ok then maybe your right, but tbh there really arent heels and faces anymore. Mean besides Cena, Orton and Daniel Bryan and maybe ADR who are heels and who are babyfaces ?


What is so un-heel-like and un-face-like about the rest of the roster?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Spoiler: Smackdown



I have a feeling people are going to rate Bryan/Cesaro way too high simply because of who it is. Smackdown wasn't half the match their Raw encounter from last year was. It may be because I'm starting to get sick of the TYPICAL Bryan WWE-TV formula. I find him much more compelling when there's some bite and some some substance to the narrative that he and his opponent are trying to tell, rather than just back and forth exchanges, which I found his match with Cesaro (on SD) was. Case in point - The limb vs. limb workover in the match with Randy on Monday, the violence, brutality and desire to seek revenge vs. Wyatt at the rumble. 

That's my thoughts anyway, I doubt many will agree and 99% will probably think the match vs. Cesaro rules. 

Sheamus/Ryback ruled FWIW


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I heavily dislike the Angle/Orton/Mysterio triple threat. Regardless of people's feelings regarding the extent to which Mysterio was pushed following Eddie's tragic passing, that was just about the worst way possible to have him 'win the big one'. First things first, it should have been Angle/Taker and Orton/Mysterio. All the heat and personal hatred was rooted in Orton/Mysterio, and Angle was merely the champion who served no real purpose in the match and could have easily dropped the belt and transitioned into the Taker match.

Then the actual match, they get under ten minutes (again a poor way for Mysterio to win the title, as it reduces any drama or teased tension by forcing them to work at 100mph), like most triple threats very little story develops and the match just sees choreographed dual spots to pop the crowd, with Angle being booked far and away the most impressively in the match, with Mysterio a complete afterthought. Then you have Mysterio and Orton working together at one point, which was just asinine. Then to make the whole debacle even more comical, Angle gets a clear submission on Mysterio (fighting for his deceased best friend, and taps out within six minutes) which the ref misses, then Mysterio gets the most sudden and heatless finish on Orton, the man who had spent weeks trying to antagonise Mysterio for humiliating him at the Rumble. It was just piss poor all round.

Re. Sheamus. He's a great talent in the ring, and really excels imo at working against midcard talent and elevating them by feeding them a ton of offence and bumping terrificly to make the match a struggle and make his opponent look good in defeat. The Sandow matches for example saw Sandow lose more often than not, yet he was booked competitively and Sheamus really went above and beyond to sell the threat Sandow possessed. As a character, he's an abortion and it's criminal how they took the popular tough Irish SOB character he had during the Henry feud when he turned face, and made him into the typically cheesy and pandering cliche babyface which robbed him of his personality.

If Cesaro is to get a push, I'd really like to see them run Cesaro/Sheamus at Mania. They've got very good chemistry, and even though they'd struggle to get more than ten minutes, I'd trust them to be able to work an engaging and good match in that time which would no doubt be far better than past Mania undercard matches. I can't really see an alternative program for Sheamus at the moment, and if Cesaro is in line for a push I can't see any better match for him for Mania and think both men would benefit from the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't Angle tap out Orton as well in the triple threat? :lmao

Hate that match so much. MOVES~! and nothing more.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus is a great face in the ring and worse than Miz outside of it. Not even up for debate. With that said, he's still a better face than heel. Dude was above average in the ring as a heel and still trash outside of it. Why can't Sheamus be likable? At least Orton made perfect sense to act like a heelish face. Sheamus was just a douche.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The triple threat may have been poorly booked and given way too little time, but sometimes it's good to just stop analyzing every little detail and enjoy the match for what it is - a fun, fast paced sub-10 minute sprint.  The GERMAN spot. :mark:

Now WOOLCOCK, put over the Orton/Mysterio singles match on Smackdown the week after because I've forgotten your explanation for the amount of headlocks in that and as much as I love the match, I can't really explain them myself!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Didn't Angle tap out Orton as well in the triple threat? :lmao
> 
> Hate that match so much. MOVES~! and nothing more.


He might well have done, though that doesn't annoy me half as much as having the soon to be new babyface champion tap out, whilst supposedly fighting for the honour and legacy of his deceased best friend. I have to believe Angle was calling the bulk of that match, because there's just no excuse to have your babyface tap out in that manner. Orton tapping was fine if they wanted to give Angle some face in dropping the belt, but Mysterio? Inexcusable.

In all honesty, with the way they booked Mysterio's reign thereafter I suppose we're asking too much to have wanted a non bullshit fifthteen minute match. As I recall, didn't Mysterio nearly tap out in Angle's last match on Smackdown, before then announcing the next week that he would definitely have tapped if whoever interefered didn't disrupt the match? Christ on a bendy bus, just ass backwards booking.

At least we got Mysterio/JBL out of it, that's a small saving grace.




Choke2Death said:


> The triple threat may have been poorly booked and given way too little time, but sometimes it's good to just stop analyzing every little detail and enjoy the match for what it is - a fun, fast paced sub-10 minute sprint.  The GERMAN spot. :mark:
> 
> Now WOOLCOCK, put over the Orton/Mysterio singles match on Smackdown the week after because I've forgotten your explanation for the amount of headlocks in that and as much as I love the match, I can't really explain them myself!


Nah, it's not about 'over analysing', it's just a terrible match. It's about the worst way a face has ever won the world title, in terms of layout and building to the finish. They have Mysterio and Orton, the sworn enemies work together to eliminate Angle, which is just nonsense. Angle is booked well above either opponent, to the point where Mysterio looks pitiful in tapping out, then winning cheaply when Angle is briefly out of the ring. The big moment in Mysterio finally putting away Orton is rushed, sudden and gets an average pop, the whole thing is just a masterclass in how not to book a title change and put over a new babyface.

As for Rey/Orton, what I love about Orton's approach in that match is how he and Mysterio work together to create a narrative out of the headlocks. Too many people just sit in basic holds to catch their breath, whereas better workers will work within those basic holds and try to make them matter in the grand scheme (watch Flair work tirelessly to escape headlocks for example). From a strategy standpoint, Orton grounds Mysterio and cuts off his arsenal to perfection, which then makes for a strong build to Mysterio's eventual comeback, but honestly it's how Orton works the headlock that makes the match engrossing. He twists and turns, fights for more leverage, constantly adjusts his positioning to stop Mysterio escaping the hold etc, he just never stops working within the hold and all the cut off spots to quash Mysterio's comeback in between the headlocks are timed expertly. It's just a really simple and well executed structure, mixed in with Orton being a good base for Mysterio's comebacks and Mysterio working tirelessly underneath to make a comeback.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ehhh havent seen smackdown yet (airs at 8 here) but I feared this. I actually kinda agree with what you said,and I even have a few gripes w/ the two matches you mentioned as exceptions


What I meant by heels and faces, is it pretty hard to see who is in what alignment these days besides a select few, I understand kayfabe is all but died but still


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I've heard it said that because HBK/Vince went too long, they cut the triple threat with Angle/Mysterio/Orton by 10 mins. That's alot.

I hate triple threat matches tho.. only WWE one I remember liking was Beniot/HHH/HBK at Mania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I loved Cesaro/Danielson 

:draper2

BTW history of the WWE doc was put on netflix, I recommend it (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That could explain it, but in all honesty I just dislike triple threat matches by nature anyway and vastly prefer a singles match. Triple threats work better when they're either quick sprints on TV, or where they at least try and establish a story/work creative spots to eliminate someone, rather than that awful pattern of Wrestler A takes offensive move, rests on the floor for three minutes whilst Wrestler B and Wrestler C work some sequences, before Wrestler A takes out Wrestler C etc etc.

More often than not, you're robbed of a gripping narrative in triple threats and workers fall into the habit of finding cute mutiple man spots to bust out, with guys just pairing off into little sequences with no real rhythm or flow. Point being, they can be fun and inoffensive on TV, but on PPV it becomes more irksome especially if there could be a better singles match between two of the participants, which Rey/Orton more than demonstrated by their No Way Out & Smackdown matches before and after Mania.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm sure I'll love Bryan/Cesaro too.. simple fact is I have short term memory when it comes to matches even if their similar.. It's why I don't really compare that much.

Now if I watched them back to back that's different.

EDIT: WOOLCOCK, you ever seen Bryan/KI/Daniels on ROH first show? I like that triple threat even though its spot after spot, no one wrestler is out of the ring the whole match and the pace is crazy. its fun. Unlike a WWE triple threat where they have a guy selling outside for five mins.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I truly only remember liking hbk/hhh/benoit I and II and DX/cena svs 09 as far as triple threats, hate the usual forumula, wrestler A and B go at it while C is down and then it rotates


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sheamus can be the worst babyface on the planet in promos and shit and I doubt I would care. Unlike Orton and Miz, he can go in the ring and can go consistently.

Edit: Fuck me this took AGES to post lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lazyking said:


> EDIT: WOOLCOCK, you ever seen Bryan/KI/Daniels on ROH first show? I like that triple threat even though its spot after spot, no one wrestler is out of the ring the whole match and the pace is crazy. its fun. Unlike a WWE triple threat where they have a guy selling outside for five mins.


I have, but it was back in like 2003 when I thought it was the dogs bollocks. I've not rewatched it since and I honestly have no idea how I'd view it. Ki ranges from extremely good to average for me depending on his performance and the match layout, Daniels for me always comes off as a technically fine wrestler who just seemingly works like he's in a permanent exhibition, but Bryan has always been a guy I've thought was tremendous.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Triple Threat to watch: Excuse to pimp an upload. 

x1aak98


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Nah, it's not about 'over analysing', it's just a terrible match. It's about the worst way a face has ever won the world title, in terms of layout and building to the finish. They have Mysterio and Orton, the sworn enemies work together to eliminate Angle, which is just nonsense. Angle is booked well above either opponent, to the point where Mysterio looks pitiful in tapping out, then winning cheaply when Angle is briefly out of the ring. The big moment in Mysterio finally putting away Orton is rushed, sudden and gets an average pop, the whole thing is just a masterclass in how not to book a title change and put over a new babyface.


I'm not gonna deny that the match is highly flawed and if you decide to pick on it, there's so much about it to tear apart including things you didn't mention like the 619 steel post botch. But if you put all that to the side, it becomes a fun, little sprint with non-stop action. No doubt Angle called most of the match because it's exactly how he usually works with finishers being thrown around every other minute and non-stop suplexes. I just got done rewatching it and noticed how much better he's booked than the other two.



> As for Rey/Orton, what I love about Orton's approach in that match is how he and Mysterio work together to create a narrative out of the headlocks. Too many people just sit in basic holds to catch their breath, whereas better workers will work within those basic holds and try to make them matter in the grand scheme (watch Flair work tirelessly to escape headlocks for example). From a strategy standpoint, Orton grounds Mysterio and cuts off his arsenal to perfection, which then makes for a strong build to Mysterio's eventual comeback, but honestly it's how Orton works the headlock that makes the match engrossing. He twists and turns, fights for more leverage, constantly adjusts his positioning to stop Mysterio escaping the hold etc, he just never stops working within the hold and all the cut off spots to quash Mysterio's comeback in between the headlocks are timed expertly. It's just a really simple and well executed structure, mixed in with Orton being a good base for Mysterio's comebacks and Mysterio working tirelessly underneath to make a comeback.


Alright, I got it. I have to agree with how you describe Orton's headlocks. He's always used them effectively and actually tried to make them look like submissions rather than boring restholds just because the participants need to catch their breath.



King Cal said:


> Sheamus can be the worst babyface on the planet in promos and shit and I doubt I would care. Unlike Orton and Miz, he can go in the ring and can go consistently.


Are you trying to suggest that Orton can't wrestle? :lol As much as I like Sheamus, I'd argue that Orton at his best is even better. But admittedly, we rarely see that nowadays and haven't gotten it on a consistent basis since... 2008? Or 2011 at best.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> I loved Cesaro/Danielson
> 
> :draper2


That ending alone was worth 4 stars alone. Very good match both of those guys can't have a bad match. Bryan's having a great start to the year for some great matches, Wyatt at RR, Orton on Raw and now Cesaro on Smackdown. Long may it go on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton at his best IS better than Sheamus. But Orton has been a worthless pile of human spunk for the majority of what, 4 years now? The guy maybe has a dozen matches in that time span I'd point to a) being good and b) being good in part of Orton being in them.

Sheamus on the other hand has been consistently good for the better part of the last 2 1/2 years or something.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I have, but it was back in like 2003 when I thought it was the dogs bollocks. I've not rewatched it since and I honestly have no idea how I'd view it. Ki ranges from extremely good to average for me depending on his performance and the match layout, Daniels for me always comes off as a technically fine wrestler who just seemingly works like he's in a permanent exhibition, but Bryan has always been a guy I've thought was tremendous.


Ahh different tastes and all that.. I liked it at the time I got the dvd but on more rewatches its OMG spots! and nothing else.. At the time, it was something I'd never seen before, plus like I said, the match was always moving forward. With WWE triple threats, a guy should not be knocked outside the ring for part of the match unless he took a finisher.

The triple threat in any case suffers from the lack of belief. If that matters to people, you hate triple threat matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hardyorton said:


> That ending alone was worth 4 stars alone. Very good match both of those guys can't have a bad match. Bryan's having a great start to the year for some great matches, W*yatt at RR, Orton on Raw *and now Cesaro on Smackdown. Long may it go on.


But I didnt like these two that much


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Orton at his best IS better than Sheamus. But Orton has been a worthless pile of human spunk for the majority of what, 4 years now? The guy maybe has a dozen matches in that time span I'd point to a) being good and b) being good in part of Orton being in them.
> 
> Sheamus on the other hand has been consistently good for the better part of the last 2 1/2 years or something.


I think he had a period in 2011 when he found that fire in him again but I admit he's been hit and miss for a large part of the past few years. Did you watch the Bryan match from Raw btw? The one this week. Think it's as good as the December one they had.

And definitely agree on the SHEAMUS part. He's a top 3 wrestler at the moment along with Bryan and Cesaro.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm not sure how someone could have disliked Bryan/Wyatt but to each their own.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> I think he had a period in 2011 when he found that fire in him again but I admit he's been hit and miss for a large part of the past few years. Did you watch the Bryan match from Raw btw? The one this week. Think it's as good as the December one they had.
> 
> And definitely agree on the SHEAMUS part. He's a top 3 wrestler at the moment along with Bryan and Cesaro.


Haven't watched the Raw match yet, might do it tonight after I watch SD. Looking forward to it though since I loved their December match.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

SKINS said:


> But I didnt like these two that much


Different strokes for different Folks Skins, it's you're opinion. I thought Wyatt match was awesome, a match that was hard hitting and brutal. Orton and Bryan seem to perform better when they are left alone to wrestle and not overbooked stupid finishes. Loved the Cesaro match on Smackdown. 

Maybe I get Bryan Mark overrating his matches from the haters but so far this year as early as it is, he's had the best matches on the roster.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

What's people's take on the Mid South DVD WWE released last year? I'm watching the first Disc and I'm enjoying it a lot. The thing that's stood out so far, how little they used Ted Dibaise and Jim Duggan to their strengths in WWF and how cartoony they made them.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

hardyorton said:


> What's people's take on the Mid South DVD WWE released last year? I'm watching the first Disc and I'm enjoying it a lot. The thing that's stood out so far, how little they used Ted Dibaise and Jim Duggan to their strengths in WWF and how cartoony they made them.


Million Dollar Man is still one of the great heel characters IMO. DiBiase's Mid South ring work was mostly great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think "dislike" is a bit strong, I will say I have a few gripes with those two that keep me from calling them great


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS how did you not like Bryan/Wyatt?

I loved the shit out of it personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is it that time of the week again? Ok...

I want the Mid-South Bluray set... but fucking FREMANTLE ARE CUNTS WHO CHARGE OVER THE ODDS FOR EVERYTHING ON THEIR BASTARDING SITE AND I REFUSE TO PAY £22.99 FOR TWO FUCKING DISCS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Haven't watched the Raw match yet, might do it tonight after I watch SD. Looking forward to it though since I loved their December match.


Speaking of December, that's where your sig has been stuck for a while now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Someone not liking Wyatt/Bryan.










Each to their own though.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Million Dollar Man is still one of the great heel characters IMO. DiBiase's Mid South ring work was mostly great.


He was seen as a potential NWA champion at the time, he was legit one of the best wrestlers in the world. A great heel. Loved the Million Dollar Man, especially when he paid people to do demeaning things. But they under used his in ring talent in the WWF sadly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of December, that's where your sig has been stuck for a while now.


I hate christmas (hence the BLACK santa hat), and I've decided to have a "christmas" themed sig all year round now... except for christmas.

Until I get around to changing it, anyway. Which might be soon. I'm just thinking of a new avatar/sig combination and possible username change...

Off to watch SD :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

hardyorton said:


> He was seen as a potential NWA champion at the time, he was legit one of the best wrestlers in the world. A great heel. Loved the Million Dollar Man, especially when he paid people to do demeaning things. But they under used his in ring talent in the WWF sadly.


RVD would attest:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

hardyorton said:


> He was seen as a potential NWA champion at the time, he was legit one of the best wrestlers in the world. A great heel. Loved the Million Dollar Man, especially when he paid people to do demeaning things. But they under used his in ring talent in the WWF sadly.


Ring talent and 80s WWF really don't mix.. He honestly should have been World champion in WWF though even for a short time. I don't agree with Hogan having the belt for four freaking years at that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He was the unofficial champ for about a week, he did some house shows with the belt after Andre "sold it" to him.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> RVD would attest:


:lmao I bet he was blowing some shit out later that night, loved him patting Virgil on the arm. Love Di Baise Voice Over on it too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is that clip an extra on a DVD anyone know?


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Lazyking said:


> Ring talent and 80s WWF really don't mix.. He honestly should have been World champion in WWF though even for a short time. I don't agree with Hogan having the belt for four freaking years at that time.


Yeah It's strange that WWF at that time had some awesome in ring talents like Curt Henning, Rick Rude, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat and Dibaise. But in Ring work meant nothing to Vince. That's when he paid Andre off wasn't it, was shocking at the time but Dibaise would have been a great Champ. Hate the fact Hogan hogged the belt for so long. Wasn't Dibaise screwed out of the Title cause Honky Tonk Man wouldn't drop the IC title to Savage, so they gave Dibaise the million Dollar title and Savage got the Title at WM4 instead.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I sort of get WHY Hogan was champ for so long; the guy was a fucking draw no doubt. However, in a LOT of cases over the years, it seems that a popular face CHASING the title is better than being champ. So Hogan losing the belt at least fucking once, for real, to someone during those 4 years and having to fight to get it back could have potentially drawn even more money. Imagine DiBiase winning the belt for real, then paying a bunch of big monsters to fight Hogan before Hogan could get to him. Could have been drawn out for the entire year with Hogan finally winning the belt back at a WM. MONEY.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

***1/2 for Bryan v Cesaro, damn good match but certainly a notch below their raw match last year.

I'll finally get round to seeing Bryan v Orton from raw tomorrow, loved their December match.

Bryan v Bray was fantastic, easily moty so far ****1/4 for it.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

To be fair to Vince, he HAD all that talent, so much so that you wanted them on TV and also at that time, big guys ruled the roost AND Vince probably only wanted guys to feud with Hulk that looked like a threat.

I actually think the wrestling is being focused on more because the talent is so thin. Back in the attitude era, ring work was not of importance either but it didn't need to be.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

King Cal said:


> I sort of get WHY Hogan was champ for so long; the guy was a fucking draw no doubt. However, in a LOT of cases over the years, it seems that a popular face CHASING the title is better than being champ. So Hogan losing the belt at least fucking once, for real, to someone during those 4 years and having to fight to get it back could have potentially drawn even more money. Imagine DiBiase winning the belt for real, then paying a bunch of big monsters to fight Hogan before Hogan could get to him. Could have been drawn out for the entire year with Hogan finally winning the belt back at a WM. MONEY.


I agree and I do understand why but it came to a point where if I was fan back then, you would never believe that Hogan would get beat by anyone. I get that was part of the mystique. Superman can't get beat but he still had kryptonite. Hogan had no Kryptonite.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Match suggestion plz, really need something to watch


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Lazyking said:


> To be fair to Vince, he HAD all that talent, so much so that you wanted them on TV and also at that time, big guys ruled the roost AND Vince probably only wanted guys to feud with Hulk that looked like a threat.
> 
> I actually think the wrestling is being focused on more because the talent is so thin. Back in the attitude era, ring work was not of importance either but it didn't need to be.


I agree about the Attitude era, looking back you didn't find many clinical Wrestling. Austin before the neck Injury was a great in ring worker, his matches with Steamboat in WCW and Bret Hart WWF attest to that. But he turned into a brawler but still he had awesome matches plus The Rock and Foley plus HHH had great matches without been all about holds and stuff. They had some classic's back in the attitude era, that's another reason I think Austin get's more love then Hogan. I know Austin didn't get beat often but his matches were mostly very good to amazing. 

Today as you said we do hope for better in ring work cause most of the guys who we like in WWE came from ROH or other indy circuits, their work has been lauded. So we expect the best.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

SMITTY said:


> Match suggestion plz, really need something to watch


Randy Savage vs Jake the snake Roberts on Saturday Main Event, what a great feud that was. You could feel the hatred between them.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Match suggestion plz, really need something to watch


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Match suggestion plz, really need something to watch


JAKE VS DWB

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2K7N6ZaoScXZi5mWxx


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

I have to thank you guy's for recommending the Ricky Steamboat and Rick Rude 30 minute Iron man match. What a awesome match. Rude is so underrated.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I wouldn't say it's underrated, more undiscovered by the more modern fan. I imagine that nine times out of ten, as soon as someone watches it they'll fall in love with it and consider it a masterpiece and rate it exactly how it deserves to be rated. It's just a lot of the newer wrestling fans may not have seen it, like myself until I watched it about a month ago.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Look at this nice little Hennig set on XWT Classics:



> · Curt Hennig vs Paul Roma (Philadelphia Spectrum, 17 December 1988)
> 
> · Mr Perfect vs Rick Martel (Prime Time, 6 February 1989)
> -- in the middle of the match, there's a brief Monsoon segment (about 45 seconds)
> ...


I've only seen two matches from the list, and that was years ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> I wouldn't say it's underrated, more undiscovered by the more modern fan. I imagine that nine times out of ten, as soon as someone watches it they'll fall in love with it and consider it a masterpiece and rate it exactly how it deserves to be rated. It's just a lot of the newer wrestling fans may not have seen it, like myself until I watched it about a month ago.




I love that IronMan match so much, it never ever gets old. I was already somewhat of a Rude fan (well, not a fan per say but I knew he was fantastic in the ring and had one of the best characters) because a few years ago I watched where he carried Warrior at Summerslam in that steel cage match and realized that was no easy feat. The only Warrior matches I have outright liked were that cage match, the masterpiece Savage had with him at Mania, and the match with Hogan at Mania just because of the electricity those two had. That's about it. Rude is a boss.

Cal- you said that Hogan chasing someone like DiBiase for the title could have drawn big money, and I agree. Have you noticed that up until Yokozuna really, Vince never put the title on a heel and "gave him the ball" so to speak. They were only used as transitional champions for the most part, including Flair who was used to kick off the youth movement when Hogan and Savage left.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

random early Jericho matches

*1994*

Chris Jericho & Lance Storm [The Thrillseekers] vs. Jimmy Del Ray & Tom Pritchard [Heavenly Bodies]/w Jim Cornette (SMW Night of Legends, 05.08.1994, Street Fight Tag Team) *****

*1995*

Chris Jericho [Lionheart] vs. Ultimo Dragon (WAR Battle Angel, 26.03.95, Singles) ****1/2*
Chris Jericho [Lionheart] vs. Ultimo Dragon (WAR 3rd Anniversary Show, 07.07.95, Singles, WAR International Junior Heavyweight Title) ****3/4*
Chris Jericho [Lionheart] vs. Lance Storm (WAR Tokyo Show, 12.08.95, Singles) ***3/4*
Chris Jericho [Lionheart] vs. Hanzo Nakajima (WAR Super J Cup ’95, 13.12.95, Singles) **3/4*
Chris Jericho [Lionheart] vs. Chris Benoit [Wild Pegasus] (WAR Super J Cup ’95, 13.12.95, Singles) ****3/4*

Actually couldn't find anything else from those two years.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Unforgiven 2004 review 

HHH buries another young star 

Match #1: William Regal and Chris Benoit vs Evolution*

HOLY FUCK THIS SOUNDS GOOD. This is really like three GOATS...and Batista :lol. Kind of depressing to see Benoit curtin jerking a PPV after having like a 4-5 month world title reign. But then again, hes now teaming with fucking Regal so its okay. I need to see if Benoit and Regal had a match with Tajyno, because that would be so much :mark: in one match. Batista starts out against Benoit, interesting to see the clash of styles here, AKA good vs terrible when Batista is in the ring. Lets get Flair in already because Benoit/Regal vs Flair is :mark: all the way. If only Lesnar didn't leave, Batista could have never gotten pushed, what a blessing that could be . Flair vs Benoit is :mark: so far, now regal is in, more :mark: worthy things. Flair overselling and then pulling out some dirty tricks is :lmao, this is why Flair is the true GOAT IMO. Benoits chops are so awesome still, but they dont stack up against Flairs chops, because none will ever top those. Regal needs some more time tbh, yay he tagged in, REGAL :mark:. Match is a ton of fun, and Benoit and regal being able to carry fucking Batista is awesome. Great match and it made for an awesome opener. When Regal wins a PPV match against Ric Flair you know its a great match. ***3/4 

*CAL SCALE: 4

Match #2: Victoria vs Trish Stratus ‘*

Wasn’t a fan of this match, it had a few fun parts, but the majority of it was slow and boring imo. Was it the worse womens match? No of course not, but it was still no Trish/Lita or Trish/Mickie that’s for sure. Thought the ending was overbooked and strange, overall just wasn’t a fan of this. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0

Match #3: Steven Richards vs Tyson Tomko* 

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #4: Christian vs Chris Jericho(Ladder match) 
*
Looking forward to this, Jericho is one of the better ladder match competitors of all time, Christian has also been in ladder classics such as the inaugral MITB match. Apparently this is just OK, but I expect it to be MOTN still, mainly because this is a terrible PPV. Mania 20 and BL are both good matches(mania is GREAT) so I doubt these two can put on a BAD match. Fun match so far, not really up to the awesomeness of the mania match but I wasn't expecting that. This is a good fun brawl so far and its good and fun. These two really do have good chemistry, they had like 5 matches in 04 but each one seems different, both guys are :mark: in ladder matches so its no surprise that these two are putting on a good match. So yeah this match was good, nothing spectacular, but still very good. I would put it below the BL and WM matches but thats not really a knock on this match. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3 *
*
Match #5: Shawn Michaels vs Kane *

This should be interesting, not expecting too much but you never know with how easy it is for HBK to carry someone. Crowd is pretty fired up for this match, and its a pretty energetic match so far, good brawl. Yeah this is shockingly fun so far, guess that is the power of :hbk and Kane when hes on. HBK is doing a REALLY good job in this match, so is Kane, but HBK is doing really well. Kane is doing a really good job at heeling it up too, HBK as usual is pulling off a good babyface performance. Yeah this match is really fun so far, my favorite match from Kane in 04 for sure. HBK's best singles match as far as PPVS go at least, just a really fun brawl. So yes check it out for sure, as I was shocked at how solid this was, borderline amazing match. The crowd was the highlight for me here, so much :mark: reactions especially when HBK hit the superkick. The crowd intensity + just an awesome brawl = a good match. Definitely MOTN so far, barely beating the opener. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4

Match # 6: La resistance vs Tajiri and Rhyno 
*
As much as it pains me, NO

*CAL SCALE: -1

Match #7: HHH vs Randy Orton 
*
Here we go, these two have some WOAT chemistry so not expecting anything. So my thoughts on this match were: MEH. This match was OK, and it was certainly better than a lot of their matches including the WM 25 match. It wasn’t too boring but it just had no substance to it, because it felt like it was identical to all of their other matches bar the one or two that I actually find entertaining. It did get overbooked at some times and tried to rely on the storyline more than actually put on a compelling match but for Orton who was only 24 at the time to be in a world title defense for the first time he didn’t flop, it just wasn’t what was expected I imagine. The booking here was WOAT because of the fact that HHH won, really? What a terrible decision, Orton wouldn’t get another world title for another THREE YEARS after HHH buries him, typical I assume. **1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 1 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 10 

Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood (12)
5: Summerslam (11.5)
6: Unforgiven (10) 
7: Judgment day (9.5) 
8: Vengeance (8.5)
9: Royal Rumble (8)
10: The Bash (7)*

2004 really has been a horrible year for PPVS out of the top three, I mean, look at the difference in the score between #3 and #4, the quality drops tremendously. Oh well, No mercy 2004 is up next and that should feature another OK PPV, hopefully better than this. ​


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

:lmao at the Stevie Richards/Tomko match. One of the worst things I've ever seen. 

Don't really understand not watching the tag match since you seem to be a big fan of one of the teams.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its the fact that I hate la resistance tbf


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I enjoyed Smackdown this week.

The Shield Tag match, Bryan/Cesaro, and Orton/Christian were fun matches to watch.

Now waiting to be disappointed by Cena/Orton on Raw :vince2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Whats the best Rockers/Brainbusters?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

are all Kane vs Kurt Angle matches shitty or?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

You'd think Christian would have learned by now...

Daniel Bryan vs. Antonio Cesaro - ***1/2, not on the level of their Raw match, but still really good
Randy Orton vs. Christian - ***, good, but the commercial really ruined the flow of it all for me, imo.
Sheamus vs. Ryback - **3/4, surprisingly good.


----------



## G-Rated Is Coming (Jan 3, 2014)

What's everyones top 10 Bill DeMott matches? Would like to know how he became the head trainer of NXT and developmental for WWE. All those future generations learning from the great ring general himself. Hopefully one day they'll release a proper 3 disc dvd so that we'll be enlightened of the grandmasters work.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™;29864113 said:


> Whats the best Rockers/Brainbusters?


1/23/89 from MSG as far as I recall:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, that one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That shall be the first and last time anyone ever talks about Bill Demott in here.

Smackdown was really good. Every single segment ruled. Daniel Bryan is still killing it out there. When it's all said and done, he will be the unanimous GOAT.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Bryan/Cesaro was very good, top 5 of the year so far, ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Ryback. Yeah, thanks for that one, WWE. Sleeper hit from Smackdown.

Glad to see Danielson bust out some new stuff vs Cesaro. Obviously it was good. Orton vs Christian fails again. Their chemistry will never be my cup of tea. LOL @ the finish. WWE, we're not idiots & neither should you make Christian out to be. Christ.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ryback/Sheamus- **3/4
Shield/Ziggler&Kofi- **3/4
Bryan/Cesaro- ***, not as good as their previous matches but still a good bout. Loved the ending, with that La Mistica from Bryan
Orton/Christian- ***1/2 I really like and even love all of their matches together, they have an awesome chemistry. Orton catching Christian in a RKO in mid-air is a spot that never gets old. Perfect timing


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Smackdown with another fun top to bottom card. It's easily been WWE's most watchable show this year. We've come a long way since the dark days of 2012.

And am I crazy or was Sheamus/Ryback nearly as good as Bryan/Cesaro?

Anyway, here is my list of ***+ matches this year. Is there anything obvious that I'm missing?

1. Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt - RR - ****
2. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton - RAW 2/3/14 - ***3/4
3. John Cena vs. Damien Sandow - RAW 1/13/14 - ***1/4
4. Brotherhood vs. Real Americans - RAW 1/6/14 - ***1/4
5. Brotherhood/Big E vs. The Shield - RAW 1/20/14 - ***1/4
6. Daniel Bryan vs. Antonio Cesaro - SD! 2/7/14 - ***1/4
7. Daniel Bryan/Cena/Sheamus vs. The Shield - RAW 1/27/14 - ***
8. Sheamus vs. Ryback - SD! 2/7/14 - ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Now waiting to be disappointed by Cena/Orton on Raw :vince2


YOU HAVE EXPECTATIONS ?

Sheamus Vs Ryback was my kind of match. I see that Sheamus wants his workhorse crown back from Bryan, it's going to be a fantastic race for WWEWOTY this year after last year had Bryan running shit for like 8 months, blowing away the competition.

Watching GOAT VS GOAT for seemingly the 80th time at Summerslam 2013, GTS into the kimura into an armbar into a triangle choke into a powerbomb :mark:? 

BROCK always making me think he's going to tap out. No wonder he's the greatest match-by-match worker in WWE history .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd consider Swagger vs. Christian and Sheamus/Rey/Bryan vs. The Shield from last week's Smackdown better than your #3, #4 and #5. Both classy matches.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Flux said:


> I'd consider Swagger vs. Christian and Sheamus/Rey/Bryan vs. The Shield from last week's Smackdown better than your #3, #4 and #5. Both classy matches.


Thanks, I'll give 'em a rewatch. I could only keep one eye on the TV since I was working last Friday night. Maybe that's why nothing jumped out at me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown was good last night. Three good matches even though the Christian/Orton finish was lazy as fuck.

Problem with Cena/Orton is not chemistry, it's that no matter what they'll do, they will never be given a chance to make it work because of the shitty crowds we get nowadays. I shall watch the Rumble match for the third time to see if I still enjoy the match. I'm sure it'll remain that way but I wanna make sure.

Also listened to Jericho's podcast with Chavo for the second part when they talk about Benoit. Awesome stuff that goes from funny to sad in a heartbeat.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown was good last night

Sheamus/Ryback was pretty good and MOTN for me

Cesaro/Bryan was solid, I was laughing with someone else saying I may download the app seriously, because the match lose flow to me after the long commercial break right in the middle.

wyatt/goldust was ok

Christian/Orton went for decent to horrid in the span of like 4 mins and I just took it off

Gonna watch some chambers today


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Gonna watch some chambers today


Ah, a good idea, so I shall steal it. I think I'll watch and rate 'em all from the beginning.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jake Roberts vs. Dirty White Boy may have surpassed Roberts/Flair and/or Roberts/Goldy as my favorite Jake match. Thanks Cal. I'm gonna need some more Jake, but I don't really like any of his WWF matches.

On second thought, nothing beats Roberts/Goldy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You don't like his stuff with Steamboat? Or Savage?

There is an AWESOME match with DiBiase but I'm unsure if it happened in WWF or Mid-South.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thoughts on the 2010 chambers ? good names in the sd one (well maybe 3 names)


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Loved Smackdown - best show all year so far. Every match seemed to fit together, and each stood out from one another. Solid booking from the E. The tag match had an awesome finish, Ryback/Sheamus was really good as well, and Orton is just killing it as a heel. Best on the roster. Still don't care for Christian - so much damn foot-stompin', hand clappin', and "Huh?"...or is it "Heh?" Stop being such a damn amateur Cappy! He can pull spots and sequences cleanly (powerslam was :mark:worthy), I just haven never been able to get "into" him. 

That said, all the match-ups (sans the Divas match) really delivered. 

Bryan/Cesaro ***3/4
Sheamus/Ryback ***1/2
Orton/Christian ***1/4
Wyatt/Goldust **3/4-***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Cal said:


> You don't like his stuff with Steamboat? Or Savage?
> 
> There is an AWESOME match with DiBiase but I'm unsure if it happened in WWF or Mid-South.


It was Mid-South:

Jake Roberts vs Ted DiBiase - Mid-South WrestleFest 28/07/1985

This match starts with Jake and Ted doing basically NOTHING for the first couple of minutes... and the fans are eating it up! Ahh, when times were simpler .

DiBiase is the heel, and has the glove on that I assume has been known to be "loaded", so Jake does his best to avoid being hit, just in case. Like I said, they do very little for a while, just locking up, and having DiBiase go for a right hand only for Roberts to block it. So much fun watching it though.

While they are locked up in the corner, DiBiase catches Jake with a right hand while the referee is between them, but luckily for Jake the glove isn't loaded... at least not yet.

Roberts teases a DDT, so DiBiase gets the hell out of there, while Jake lays down in the ring and dares Ted to get back in there. Jake is just so awesome at turning the simplest of situations into pure awesomeness, its no wonder a lot of people consider him one of the best "psychological" minds in wrestling.

DiBiase runs out of the ring once too often, causing Jake to finally follow him. This allows Ted to gain the upperhand as he catches Jake with a right hand as he tried to get back in the ring. Jake even ends up getting tied up in the ropes... backwards! He is facing the crowd, while DiBiase gets as many shots in as he can before the referee frees Jake.

Ted does a wonderful job of beating down Jake, and Jake does a good job of selling the beat down. Its amazing to see these two guys work like this, considering it would only be what, a year (maybe even less?) before both guys were in WWF and not having much of an opportunity to put on such great matches there.

Jake's comeback begins, as he hits his signature jabs, and the crowd explode. The referee gets knocked down at one point, so Ted tried to load up the glove, only to get a DDT first! Referee comes around, and this one is over!

Awesome match here! Great in ring work from both men, and awesome psychology from Jake. Really enjoyable!

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Didn't really care for the RAW Chamber match, but the SD Chamber match had a great beginning and ending. Don't remember anything about the middle.

Ok Roberts/Savage from 11/29/86 was good. You got me there. Haven't seen Steamboat/Roberts, but I'm sure Steamboat can carry Roberts to something great. I can't remember anything else he had besides random squashes that I don't really care for. I think I saw a really bad match against Earthquake. I didn't like Dibiase/Roberts at WM VI, so I'm guessing their good match wasn't in the WWF. Hate all his matches with Rude except for one in Philadelphia.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot about the Rude matches, always liked the RR one, forget the rest though .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Thoughts on the 2010 chambers ? good names in the sd one (well maybe 3 names)


Both are mediocre. The second worst two chambers on one PPV since they started doing that in 2008. 2012 being the obvious worst.

I have to go through a few of those myself. Will probably put the Raw 2008 and 2009 ones on the list. The former because I remember enjoying it a lot last year and the latter because it's the only chamber match I have yet to properly see (2011/2012 ones aside since I only saw them once when they aired). Will also add NYR 2005 because any excuse to rewatch it is a good one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick Rude was always a weird cat. At his best, he was top tier excellence that could have awesome matches with The Ultimate Warrior and Masahiro Chono. When he's in that state of mind, he's one of the best heels ever. However, he had just as many stinkers as good matches to me. Call me crazy, but I would consider a consistently good wrestler like Sheamus to be way better than Rude. Sheamus rarely misses anymore, and he can work well with just as many, if not more types of wrestlers than Rude. Of course, it's hard to blame Rude for being shit in the 90s (except for his awesome 1992) because the guy was broken down physically. But when you are unable to have entertaining matches with Steamboat, then there might be a problem.

So yeah. Sheamus > Rick Rude. Tajiri too. And Cesaro.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehh that doesn't sound good then, I watched about 10 mins of the sd one last night but really didnt think that much of it

I"ll watch the 2008 ones


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No the SD one is awesome! 

2008 is awesome though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rick Rude was always a weird cat. At his best, he was top tier excellence that could have awesome matches with The Ultimate Warrior and Masahiro Chono. When he's in that state of mind, he's one of the best heels ever. However, he had just as many stinkers as good matches to me. Call me crazy, but I would consider a consistently good wrestler like Sheamus to be way better than Rude. Sheamus rarely misses anymore, and he can work well with just as many, if not more types of wrestlers than Rude. Of course, it's hard to blame Rude for being shit in the 90s (except for his awesome 1992) because the guy was broken down physically. But when you are unable to have entertaining matches with Steamboat, then there might be a problem.
> 
> So yeah. Sheamus > Rick Rude. Tajiri too. And Cesaro.


I agree with your thoughts on Rude, I think he gets overrated at times because he WAS really fucking good during his early 90's WCW heel run and DID have some great matches with a bunch of people. However before his WCW run he was definitely VERY hit and miss. Thankfully he does has plenty of good shit to make me overlook a lot of his bad shit and be able to call him legitimately good, but he never was that consistently good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Thoughts on the 2010 chambers ? good names in the sd one (well maybe 3 names)


RAW is a bore. Smackdown match is pretty great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok I'll finish the sd one later tonite, watching the raw 08 atm Jesus era Punk :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Rude, ill have to check out the couple of Ragin' & Ravishin' vs. Rock N Roll Express matches that gets praised. 

I also recently picked up that Jake Roberts comp you have yourself Cal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Along with Jake, I definitely need to watch more Ted Dibiase. Again, outside of a couple matches (Virgil, Savage, Bret, Warrior somehow), I didn't like his WWF matches at all. Such a shame because the guy had at the very least, a top five gimmick in company history. What else did he have in the territories besides the awesome Flair match, that Roberts match, and the sick feud with Duggan?

That Black Swan sig is scaring the shit out of me.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Sheamus over Rick Rude???? Blasphemy!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good.

Also, watch Money Inc vs Nasty Boys for a random Ted WWF pick.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is that Money Inc vs Steiners (cage) match like? Never seen it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The ending to the Money Inc/Steiners cage match is hilarious. I really liked that match. Steiners had some great stuff in their short mid-90s WWF run. I hate the Nasty Boys, but I'll give that match a chance.

Already asked zep this, but has anyone seen this match:

The Hart Foundation vs. The Rockers (Fort Wayne, IN – 10/30/90)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The ending to the Money Inc/Steiners cage match is hilarious. I really liked that match. Steiners had some great stuff in their short mid-90s WWF run. I hate the Nasty Boys, but I'll give that match a chance.)


I pimp this every chance lol  But i do fucking love it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 - I think i have that Rockers/Hart Foundation match afterall.  Ill check.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Took a look at the NM 04 card today, thoughts on Kidman/London and Taker/JBL? rest of the card looks like shit


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces, found that match. ill upload tomorrow if you want.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks so much dude. I know the Hart Foundation/Rockers matches get a lot of hate, but I really want to see every single match between two of the greatest teams ever possible. That entire night was filled with good matches. Martel/Santana, Bossman/Perfect, and Dibiase/Warrior were good too.

I've seen and really liked that Steiner/Nasty Boys match. There are a few other matches of theirs that I have enjoyed over the years, but for the most part, I don't see how they're any different from guys like Sandman or Public Enemy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The steiners/nasty boys match was :mark:, really enjoyed it

Watching Show/Henry Vengeance :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I watched Steiners/Nastys for the first time yesterday, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I really liked the backwork done to Scotty, I found Rick constantly coming in slightly annoying though, makes him look like an absolute tit. Other than that little bit, I enjoyed it a fair bit.

SMITTY did you watch Drew/Christian?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Flux I tried to but the video crashed, I'll try again when this is over


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally finished the last remaining chamber match I had never seen in full before, the Raw 2009 one. Although the 2011 ones need a rewatch, I'll try to complete a list now:

1. New Year's Revolution 2005 - ★★★★½
2. Survivor Series 2002 - ★★★★
3. No Way Out 2008 (RAW) - ★★★★
4. No Way Out 2009 (Smackdown) - ★★★★
5. Elimination Chamber 2013 - ★★★¾
6. No Way Out 2009 (RAW) - ★★★¾
7. Elimination Chamber 2011 (Smackdown) - ★★★¾
8. New Year's Revolution 2006 - ★★★¾
9. No Way Out 2008 (Smackdown) - ★★★½
10. Elimination Chamber 2011 (RAW) - ★★★¼
11. SummerSlam 2003 - ★★★
12. Elimination Chamber 2010 (Smackdown) - ★★★
13. Elimination Chamber 2010 (RAW) - ★★★
14. Elimination Chamber 2012 (Smackdown) - ★★¾
15. Elimination Chamber 2012 (RAW) - ★★¾
16. December to Dismember 2006 - ★★½

Please deliver this month, Randy, Bryan, Cena, Cesaro, Fella and Christian! Oh and retain it, Randy! :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jake Roberts isn't that good but the Hart Foundation are one of the best tag teams ever? NOOOOO. NO.


HF had the annoying habit of doing that incredibly stupid as shit 'heel in peril' WWF tag formula rubbish. It's actually frustrating to watch. 

Watch Jake/Steamboat 8/9/86. It's not even close to a carry job and it's terrific. Jake also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hart foundation. Then again hundreds of things in wrestling >>>>>>>>> Hart Foundation. I might actually watch and re-watch a bunch of HF tags to see if they have anything I really give a shit about. Actually, yeah, I'll do that soon.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> 8. New Year's Revolution 2006 - ★★★¾


:bosh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's about *** too high on that match lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> :bosh


I'm probably its only fan in here but I don't give a fuck!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Personally cant stand the match bar the cash in ofc

Cena in 2006 just reeks of shit imo outside of the SS and UF with edge, and HHH at mania

Unless im forgetting something


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm probably its only fan in here but I don't give a fuck!


I give the match **3/4-***, I enjoyed it, it just didn't feel lke a Chamber match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Jake Roberts isn't that good but the Hart Foundation are one of the best tag teams ever? NOOOOO. NO.
> 
> 
> HF had the annoying habit of doing that incredibly stupid as shit 'heel in peril' WWF tag formula rubbish. It's actually frustrating to watch.
> ...


Cant we say the same thing for Bret Hart in general


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Cant we say the same thing for Bret Hart in general


Never understood the love for him, always pretty dull to me. He is skilled at mat wrestling, but makes it look as lame as can be. Only like his matches with guys skilled at another style (Austin, HBK)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> Personally cant stand the match bar the cash in ofc
> 
> Cena in 2006 just reeks of shit imo outside of the SS and UF with edge, and HHH at mania
> 
> Unless im forgetting something


It's not like Cena is the only guy in the match. That aside, I enjoyed his 2006 for the most part. Some good TV stuff with Edge and tags here and there and half of his PPV matches were solid. (WM, Backlash triple threat, enjoyed ONS, SS, UF)

He was still in the phase of "finding" himself as there were times where he was clearly clueless on how to carry a match like Cyber Sunday, but he managed to have good matches quite a bit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

BL is actually a ton of fun and so is ONS vs RVD to a lesser extent

Still, the chamber is bad imo, **1/2 for it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Cant we say the same thing for Bret Hart in general


No we fucking can't. :no:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol Zep did you ever check out flair/savage prime time ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> lol Zep did you ever check out flair/savage prime time ?


Not yet. Completely forgot.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Cant we say the same thing for Bret Hart in general


nope.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bret Hart at his best was easily a top 10 wrestler of all time. At his worst he sucked, but most guys at their worst suck. I personally think Bret's a freaking artist, I prefer Bret Hart to HBK any day of the week Skins 

Since when did a guy being good at mat wrestling become a negative? This is called pro wrestling after all, not pro high spots, not pro kick boxing, pro wrestling. I love matches that start with two guys locking up like men and fighting for control. Unless of course there is real heat in a situation, then starting out with punches and brawling makes sense.

Speaking of mat wrestling, Yeah1997 that Steiner's/Dr. death and Terry Gordy tag is one of the best things I've ever seen. It's tied with the 2/3 Falls 6 man as my favorite tag match ever. The entire match was absolutely amazing, but the first few minutes where it's just two beasts rolling around fighting for control until Dr. Death slaps the taste out of Ricks mouth then Rick shoots one of the fastest double legs ever and starts throwing bombs is easily my favorite portion.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cactus, I swear every new WCW tag you watch becomes your favourite


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ :lol it does seem like that ,good show

Flux baby ,where is this christian/drew ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fact: Drew McIntyre is approximately 163% :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can never understand how someone can place Bret Hart above Shawn MIchaels, but I'm a big HBK mark, so I might be subjective


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd hardly call Bret a good mat wrestler tbh, at least in terms of what he actually produced in matches. He might be far more adept behind the scenes, but I've never really seen him work the mat in a way that left me convinced he was an all-time great at it. I mean, US workers in general aren't terribly gifted at working the mat (bar the fantastic Carl Greco and the overlooked Joe Malenko), with the European, Shoot Style and Lucha workers typically excelling far more, but Bret in particular has always struck me as the cliche 'great mat guy' without much in the way of proof to solidify that claim. Like, maybe I'm blanking on a few matches here and there, but has Bret ever proven himself as that much better at the 'early mat wrestling' than a guy like Arn Anderson? And as much as Arn is revered, there's a lot of aspects of his work that would typically be met with more praise than his mat wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just my opinion, but Bret should be employed to work behind the scenes. Match planning maybe.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Cactus, I swear every new WCW tag you watch becomes your favourite


Up until this past week, I had only seen Monday Night Wars era WCW tags. I had never seen anything from 1990-1994. So having never seen a tag from that era before then watching these matches in quick succession:

Zybysko/Anderson/Eaton vs Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff 2/3 Falls (tied for new favorite)
Dr. Death/Terry Gordy vs Steiner Bros (tied for favorite)
Southern Boys vs Midnight Express GAB
Zybysko/Rude/Anderson/Eaton vs Sting/Steamboat/Windham/Rhodes
Zybysko/Anderson vs Rhodes/Steamboat

Pretty much just blew my mind. Before this week the Canadian Stampede 10 Man was my favorite tag, now it's probably number 4 or 5 on my list. Something about those early 90s WCW tags just really really clicks with me. I love the structure of all of them but I think what really makes them stand out is how believable they all are. Everything just seems more "real". Guys have real beefs with each other and are fighting with purpose.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'd hardly call Bret a good mat wrestler tbh, at least in terms of what he actually produced in matches. He might be far more adept behind the scenes, but I've never really seen him work the mat in a way that left me convinced he was an all-time great at it. I mean, US workers in general aren't terribly gifted at working the mat (bar the fantastic Carl Greco and the overlooked Joe Malenko), with the European, Shoot Style and Lucha workers typically excelling far more, but Bret in particular has always struck me as the cliche 'great mat guy' without much in the way of proof to solidify that claim. Like, maybe I'm blanking on a few matches here and there, but has Bret ever proven himself as that much better at the 'early mat wrestling' than a guy like Arn Anderson? And as much as Arn is revered, there's a lot of aspects of his work that would typically be met with more praise than his mat wrestling.


See that was the thing, I NEVER call him bad, just more of the stuff he did either it be mat wresting, selling etc I need got the "best there is,best there was, best there ever will be" vibe pun intended 

I see so many claim he was the best that specific category but I could name a few I thought were much better


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Just my opinion, but Bret should be employed to work behind the scenes. Match planning maybe.


I'll take Arn Anderson, Steamboat and if they could ever convince him, Lawler. Say what you will about Lawler's commentary, but if there's anyone active who could put together logical advice to help the young talent alter their style to fit their opponent, whilst teaching them how to get the most out of very little, it's Lawler.

Actually, once he sadly departs again (despite being good enough to hang around for the forseeable future), they should get Goldust in as an agent, specifically match structure and babyface work. He's still demonstrating how far ahead he is against anyone who's currently active, when it comes to babyface work and working the crowd through his bumping, mannerisms and timing.

Also Cactus, have you watched Rockers/Orient Express from the '91 Rumble? That's probably a top five company tag ever, at minimum.

Similarly, if you loved that 5/23/92 six man, I'd encourage you to seek out Rock 'N Roll Express & Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (6/8/84) from Mid South. That's probably my #1 US six man tag, with Morton turning in an incredible FIP spell and the Midnight Express oozing class in everything they do.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

would pay Lawler millions to teach some of these guys (specifically Orton) how to punch


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Goldust throws a heck of a punch tbf, it does appear though that so many of the current generation prefer to throw those terribly regulation punches, rather than a more authentic looking punch like Lawler. It's obviously a minor aspect of the overall ringwork, but in brawls and 'grudge' matches, the ability to convey hatred and work more snugly in making your offence look more impactful should be a prerequisite. I know a lot of the older Lucha workers primarily took boxing training, to allow them to throw more realistic punches that don't look obviously worked and business exposing, but I can't deny I wouldn't love to see a few guys take more liberties and work to throw more realistic punches, especially in brawls where the occasion really demands a departure from the norm.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'll take Arn Anderson, Steamboat and if they could ever convince him, Lawler. Say what you will about Lawler's commentary, but if there's anyone active who could put together logical advice to help the young talent alter their style to fit their opponent, whilst teaching them how to get the most out of very little, it's Lawler.
> 
> Actually, once he sadly departs again (despite being good enough to hang around for the forseeable future), they should get Goldust in as an agent, specifically match structure and babyface work. He's still demonstrating how far ahead he is against anyone who's currently active, when it comes to babyface work and working the crowd through his bumping, mannerisms and timing.
> 
> ...




Love that Rockers/Orient Express match, never seen that six man though, it sounds amazing. Duggan in Mid South was just a beast, that was the best part about buying that Mid South set, not realizing how AMAZING guys like Duggan, DiBiase, and Buzz Sawyer were in the ring. Duggan and Sawyer have a No DQ match on that set that is one of the most wild, exciting, crazy brawls ever. Hell even the Red Rooster Terry Taylor could be great, that match with Flair on that set was tremendous.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea was speaking more of the current current guys on the roster, Goldust throws an excellent punch. Yea it seems to be a lost art I guess. I do like how Cesaro and Phillip Brooks would uses their forearms more often


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

They should bring a Japanese trainer to teach the young guys and some of the older ones how to throw a punch. Wouldn't hurt to bring more stiffeness to the WWE


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah Bret's mat work is overstated. Where does he ever do anything mat related?

And yeah, he completely blows Shawn out of the water as a worker. Bret at his worst sucked but Michaels at his worst sucked so much worse and lasted over half a decade. Bret's peak is better, too, and he was better on average. Michaels is the better tag wrestler, though. 

Best US six man is interesting. Can't think of anything better than the 92 WCW tag but I could be missing something. Or not because that match is insanely good.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

All HBK vs Bret matches suck tbh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm assuming you're referring to the 11/11/85 Duggan/Sawyer match, which is indeed as good as any brawl I've ever seen. Lawler/Dundee would rank ahead of it for me, moreso in terms of the individual performances and narrative they piece together, but in terms of actual brawling and selling, Duggan/Sawyer can safely rank alongside any US brawl.

I think the youtube link for the six man was removed sometime ago, not sure if some saint has put it back up though. It truly is incredible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive actually never seen an early 90s wcw tag, which would you guys rec to start with ? I have OCD in the fact I dont like watching the BEST stuff first and working my way


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> They should bring a Japanese trainer to teach the young guys and some of the older ones how to throw a punch. Wouldn't hurt to bring more stiffeness to the WWE


I couldn't name one japanese worker who throws a better punch than Lawler, or Vader, or Dundee, or even Dibiase. There's no doubt the Japanese are more renowned for their strikes, but there's very few if any japanese workers who would be up there if I was to consider people who threw the best punches. Similarly, I don't feel bringing in a japanese worker would be of any real benefit, when the style and preferences of the fans is so far removed from japanese wrestling. You're better off relying on your Finlay and Regal's of the world, who are masters of the European style, but have a greater understanding of how to translate that style into the US style more eloquently.



Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah Bret's mat work is overstated. Where does he ever do anything mat related?
> 
> And yeah, he completely blows Shawn out of the water as a worker. Bret at his worst sucked but Michaels at his worst sucked so much worse and lasted over half a decade. Bret's peak is better, too, and he was better on average. Michaels is the better tag wrestler, though.
> 
> Best US six man is interesting. Can't think of anything better than the 92 WCW tag but I could be missing something. Or not because that match is insanely good.


I really can't recall any sequence he ever did that made me think, "not many could do that". Not even using that to knock Bret, but rather the online perception that Bret Hart absolutely belongs in any discussion about mat wrestling. Even the sequences in the Owen match impress me more for the build and narrative they create, as opposed to the actual holds which are fairly basic though executed flawlessly. I feel much can be said of Benoit, because whilst there is much of his work I love, I do feel he's another who will be lauded as a 'mat wizard' when again, I can't really think he's better than Regal or Finlay or many others. Danielson for example would also be far ahead of Benoit when it comes to mat exchanges, based on the evidence in his indy work.

You know more than anyone about my general apathy for a good portion of HBK's career, but he really is one of the better US tag workers and it's a shame so much of his work was singles orientated, though given his charisma and popularity it's no surprise.

I'd say the Mid South six man is my favourite, but it's not like that 5/23 would probably be anywhere besides the top three. Of course six mans are more common in Lucha (and 90s All Japan), so I don't think there's an extensive list of six mans in which to really put together a general top five consensus.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone at their worst sucked. Quite a silly statement to make. Even Arn Anderson at his worst sucked.

Now somebody please watch Regal/Windham.

Best six man tag might have to be the second Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs. Taue/Fuchi/Tsuruta match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I didnt understand that tbh, everyone at their worst sucked, and idk if that is correct way in comparing two wrestlers to see if who is better, even if we are comparing the miz and hornswaggle


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Moops was just saying when Bret was bad, he was BAD and similarly with Michaels, only that his poor spells were much longer. Obviously anyone at their worst would be hardly be good, but I took it as just a way to emphasise that for all the 'peaks' of both men's work, the times where their work was less impressive stood out as being particularly bad.

I'd say the April '91 six man between Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi vs Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi is the best six man tag worldwide, but we were discussing US six mans specifically. The October '97 CMLL mini's trios match however is probably top five at worst.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Ive actually never seen an early 90s wcw tag, which would you guys rec to start with ? I have OCD in the fact I dont like watching the BEST stuff first and working my way


there was a list of like the top 20 tags put up yesterday or day before. find that and start at the bottom.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I didn't want to make it look like I was saying Bret was always great or whatever. Worst isn't the best 'who's better' method, but at the same time it's still a positive in one wrestlers favour. I think Michaels was SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Bret as well, which is an obvious factor. We can talk about the good all today and that's obviously the main drive, but multiple years of shit I don't like still happened.

Not everyone at their worst sucked, though. That's more confusing. On that note when did Arn Anderson suck? Jerry Lawler, Finlay, Vader, I can't think of those guys having suck periods. Off nights where they sucked, yeah (actually can't recall any but I'll assume at least one exists). Actual full periods, though? Where are they? Even someone like Jushin Liger who hasn't done anything for me in any match I've seen him in from 2005 onward (NOTE - not been paying any attention to his 2010s), isn;t someone who I'd say has actually sucked as opposed to just not being that good. I'm actually regretting saying Bret sucked, tbh. I mean his WCW run wasn't THAT bad.



SKINS said:


> Yea I didnt understand that tbh, everyone at their worst sucked, and idk if that is correct way in comparing two wrestlers to see if who is better, even if we are comparing the miz and hornswaggle


it's obv not the main point, but of course it counts. It's literally one wrestler being better than another. Obviously if someone at their worst is worse than someone else at their worst it doesn't make them automatically worse overall (Michaels at his worst is worse than Vince McMahon at his worst, as an e.g.). It definitely counts, though. Especially if the suck is an entire second half of a singles career.

EDIT - worldwide best six man is probably 4/20/91, though I remember absolutely preferring 5/22/92. The minis trio is probably #2, I can't think of a better trio, anyway. Maybe the Infernales one from 86? Maybe not, but it belongs in this talk. WOOLCOCK you ever see that? Could be the best trio of the 80s.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

What's the list of participants? I can't recall an '86 trios off the top of my head, but I'm sure a few trios from that era ring a bell. Still need to get that Lucha set eventually, then wait months to watch it like a major shithead. Suppose you could add the Dandy/Azteca May '90 trios which leads into their title match? Always heard great things about that match. Actually lucha talk has made me recall Trio Fantasia vs Thundercats from '91, which is an absurdly great bloody six man war. Btw, I was recommending a lucha novice a few matches the other day, and I've seen Los Infernales/Brazos from 11/22/91 (OJ had it top five for all time lucha) has been upped to youtube. Need to watch it myself, because when I've looked in the past it's never been online, but that could be another great six man/trios to add to the list.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Finlay have any good matches towards the very end of WCW? Not that it's his fault because LOLWCW, but I remember not liking any of his PPV matches after the Booker T match at GAB 98. Vader was not very good in 1998. Arn Anderson has had some bad matches too. As has Lawler. Nobody is perfect. I mean, if Lawler and Flair can have a bad match together, anything is possible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> What's the list of participants? I can't recall an '86 trios off the top of my head, but I'm sure a few trios from that era ring a bell. Still need to get that Lucha set eventually, then wait months to watch it like a major shithead. Suppose you could add the Dandy/Azteca May '90 trios which leads into their title match? Always heard great things about that match. Actually lucha talk has made me recall Trio Fantasia vs Thundercats from '91, which is an absurdly great bloody six man war. Btw, I was recommending a lucha novice a few matches the other day, and I've seen Los Infernales/Brazos from 11/22/91 (OJ had it top five for all time lucha) has been upped to youtube. Need to watch it myself, because when I've looked in the past it's never been online, but that could be another great six man/trios to add to the list.


Satanico/MS-1/Masakre v. Atlantis/Ringo Mendoza/Ultraman 

Oh shit yeah, I forgot about the best Dandy trio in 90. Whatever that is. Has Rocca and Chavo in it, I think. I've still not seen that Thunder Cats tag either.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Is that on the lucha set? It rings a bell as a match I might have requested not long after I joined this place (think New Blood who used to be a mainstay in the Lucha thread PM'd me a MU link), but I can't recall if I watched the match prior to megaupload going tits up. 

Is this the '86 trios? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvHdmLd5Ao8

The Thunder Cats tag is amazing and on youtube. It's Mask vs Mask and they just beat the absolute piss out of each other. Amazing punches, incredible bumps, 100mph chaos at every turn and the whole thing just feels like the absolute best six man war you can imagine. In a dream world it would be everything people wish Shield/Wyatts would be in terms of gritty and authentic violence, only with the participants dressed in comedy attire and leaving you shocked they could produce anything close to the violence spectable that follows. I couldn't recommend you watch it any sooner tbh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's the one. It's AWESOME.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:hb

If it wasn't nye on 2am here and I was barely awake I'd be all over that bad boy. Tomorrow will have to suffice.

Not sure how up to date you are with CMLL, but Virus apparently had another great title match last week. Apparently it's below the level of his two matches with Guerrero Maya Jr from '11 and '13, but by modern lucha title matches it's another good Virus showcase with a traditional structure, some insane highspots and apparently an insane Virus bump that makes you question how he's still walking.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm assuming you're referring to the 11/11/85 Duggan/Sawyer match, which is indeed as good as any brawl I've ever seen.


...but surely you've seen Hansen/Funk from '82 & '83?:no:











:agree:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kinda off-topic, but why doesn't anyone ever talk about the Hashimoto/Ogawa rivalry? This was basically Lesnar/Cena done right.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What is everyones thoughts on No mercy 2004?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love Kidman/London. Good sleeper hit. Kidman was not a bad heel in the ring. There's some fun in Big Show/Angle. Everything else sucks and I'm not a fan at all of the main event, but others here are.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I hated that last ride match, the Kennedy one was actually pretty decent but the former sucks all kind of dick. Doesn't matter though, JBL/Taker had a solid brawl at Summerslam and then years after, a great match on SD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The finish to Bryan/Cesaro was so swanky. :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> No we fucking can't. :no:


I came in on a random page of the Hart discussion, and just _knew_ that 'skins was the one who probably brought up Hart in a negative manner, prompting the Hart discussion. I've literally never seen a Hart discussion started in another manner here. :lmao It always starts with 'skins taking a random, negative, shot at Hart.

And yes, I actually agree with Yeah that I wouldn't even put Hart up there as anything innovative or extraordinary as far as mat wrestling is concerned. That wasn't what I considered his greatest strength to be (though he was perfectly strong at it). I do think that his counter wrestling and chain wrestling was great, though, when he put the focus on that. He usually would do so against other strong technical wrestlers.

And I will pimp Bret/Owen vs. Steiners until the end of the Earth, in part for this very reason. Would have liked to have seen Bret and Owen have a longer, more serious, tag run. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer them over the Hart Foundation, although the Hart Foundation was more fun.

But yeah, the 80s style WWE tag team formula does not do as much for me now, as it it did as a kid. I feel like there was a typical style and formula that all of the tag teams had. Always the same, always with the ref "not seeing the tag" and all that other bullshit. Cartoony. The tag division still had some great stuff, though.

And yes, Orient Express/Rockers at RR '91 still kicks ass, and Hart Foundation/Rockers at MSG Nov '89 is still great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> I can never understand how someone can place Bret Hart above Shawn MIchaels, but I'm a big HBK mark, so I might be subjective


Everyday I find a new reason to put Shawn Michaels down the list, pardon his work in the Rockers.



Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah Bret's mat work is overstated. Where does he ever do anything mat related?
> 
> And yeah, he completely blows Shawn out of the water as a worker. Bret at his worst sucked but Michaels at his worst sucked so much worse and lasted over half a decade. Bret's peak is better, too, and he was better on average. Michaels is the better tag wrestler, though.


How many times have I said I love you? Well, this post does it again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Already asked zep this, but has anyone seen this match:
> 
> The Hart Foundation vs. The Rockers (Fort Wayne, IN – 10/30/90)


*The Rockers vs. The Hart Foundation - (Ft. Wayne 10/30/90)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...ndation-ft-wayne-10-30-90-a.html#post29904369

Didn't put it on DM as WWE would probably take it down.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did upload this to DM though.

*The Steiner Brothers vs. Jushin Liger/Chris Benoit (New Japan 4/4/94)*

x1bljzt


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> ...but surely you've seen Hansen/Funk from '82 & '83?:no:
> 
> :agree:


I have indeed, and it's no slight on Hansen/Funk which is one of my favourite pairings in wrestling history, but Duggan/Sawyer is a timeless masterpiece. The punches, the wild and dangerous bumps, the perfectly timed comebacks and cut offs, the mesmerising post match angle which sees them fight all the way to the back and Sawyer screaming for Duggan's head before passing out due to blood loss etc..just a masterclass angle.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Kinda off-topic, but why doesn't anyone ever talk about the Hashimoto/Ogawa rivalry? This was basically Lesnar/Cena done right.


I've talke about it extensively in the past, with the Hashimoto/Iizuka vs Ogawa/Murakami '00 tag being one of my favourite 'grudge' tags ever. When you say Lesnar/Cena done right, I'm hoping you don't mean in relation to the booking, since it pretty much killed Hashimoto as a draw in the eyes of the New Japan fans by regularly diminishing his aura as an unbeatable fighter, and eventually lead to him departing the company to form Zero-One.

In terms of long-term build, it was a very good angle because the heat was staggering for every match they had. But Hashimoto consistently being beaten and given nothing in return was a monumental cock-up which would see the company lose their ace and embark upon a frightening period of MMA influenced hybrid matches which saw the company stagnate and become a shell of its 80s and 90s past.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I call bullshit at Bret not being a great ground guy. Sure, he wasn't too fancy or innovative (the Hart family's innovation fame is way overrated anyway, they "stole" quite a lot of shit), but his biggest strength was doing the most simple things in a surgically precise and effective manner. When you look at Bret doing a sleeper or working a limb, or countering holds into his own holds, the first thing that strikes you is "this man knows his job". Bret should also get more credit because he worked within the limited Vince enviroment and against the limited breed of wrestlers. I'd take Bret over Malenko and Eddie always, for example.

Owen was better than Bret, though.



JustJoel said:


>


Hansen's performance in that match is one of the greatests I've ever seen from anyone anywhere.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Kinda off-topic, but why doesn't anyone ever talk about the Hashimoto/Ogawa rivalry? This was basically Lesnar/Cena done right.


Inoki/Vader was even more Lesnar/Cena done right.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Inoki/Vader was even more Lesnar/Cena done right.


Was that the '96 match?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Anybody know where I can find Vader & Austin vs. Arn & Flair. Never knew this existed until I heard Vader talk about it. Probably happened in '93 on WCW Saturday Night. Also, any thoughts on the match for those that have seen it?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Was that the '96 match?


Yes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

73.	Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993

There be the date, and it was #73 on my top 100 WCW matches ever list. Can't find anything I wrote on the fecking thing though :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I call bullshit at Bret not being a great ground guy. Sure, he wasn't too fancy or innovative (the Hart family's innovation fame is way overrated anyway, they "stole" quite a lot of shit), but his biggest strength was doing the most simple things in a surgically precise and effective manner. When you look at Bret doing a sleeper or working a limb, or countering holds into his own holds, the first thing that strikes you is "this man knows his job". Bret should also get more credit because he worked within the limited Vince enviroment and against the limited breed of wrestlers. I'd take Bret over Malenko and Eddie always, for example.


See, I was just about to agree with you and then you said Bret was superior to Eddie, and that's where I draw the line Mister 

I don't consider Bret on the same level as Finlay, Regal, Danielson, or Benoit when it comes to gritty mat wrestling, but part of that has to be the era he wrestled in. I can't imagine Vince would have been thrilled to see his new champion putting on a Benoit/Regal style match for the WWE Title in the main event, fresh off the Hogan era. Fans needed to be re educated about what good wrestling really is, as much of the 80's in WWE was filled with utter crap. Bret played a HUGE role IMO in making the average fan appreciate great ring work and the art of pro wrestling. The stuff he did on the mat was simple, sure, but it was extremely effective and well done.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> Anybody know where I can find Vader & Austin vs. Arn & Flair. Never knew this existed until I heard Vader talk about it. Probably happened in '93 on WCW Saturday Night. Also, any thoughts on the match for those that have seen it?


I remember watching the match a couple years ago on YouTube for a WCW greatest matches poll. The match is a long TV match. Went over TV time the show had if I remember correctly because it cut off before the finish. I believe WCW aired the finish on a later show. The match is not great but it is cool watching the talent involved working together. There are several other WCW tags in 1992 that are much better and should be viewed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hashimoto vs Ogawa program itself was one goldmine from the HEAT standpoint. I still can't shake off how I never liked Ogawa, so I'm having that linger over my opinion on the rest of it. That and why Hashimoto got mixed up in the MMA scene New Japan was gaga over, I'll never know. As for this topic, feel like it gets discussed a decent bit.

Always humors me on how a central aspect of building HUSTLE was the aligning between Hashimoto & Ogawa from rivals, to allies. Not really humored by it. Settled on that word solely b/c it's an aspect at the end of Hash's career that rarely gets acknowledged. _(<3 HUSTLE, but the peak was def when they were feuding)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I've finally got around to watching Bryan/Orton from Raw. Nice leg work from Bryan, especially the cool running dropkick to Orton's knee while it was wrapped around the post (though Bryan could have put a bit more effort into it lol). Nice to see Orton doing some more BITING to escape, as well as biting his own hand to take the pain away from his leg while in a submission. BACK SUPLEX ON THE BARRICADE is a fav spot of mine, though has never looked as good as when Punk did it to Rey in that SD match during 2010 . Orton continuing to really sell the leg while trying to control the match was great, and I loved the counter from Bryan's kicks to that suplex. Oh Randy, why can't you work like this on a regular basis? I might actually think you didn't suck if you managed that. Shoulder work to Bryan was good too, with Bryan selling it well and Orton turning up the viciousness, which is another thing he only seems to fucking do when working Bryan. BE THIS MOTIVATED ALL THE TIME YOU STUPID FUCK. Shades of ARN ANDERSON with bending the fingers back while applying an arm lock. That's the great kind of shit missing from wrestling in general. WORKING A HOLD, not sat in it. Which kinda brings me to Bret Hart since people have been talking about him. I'm still a big fan of him, but as fas as his "technical" skills, he was as standard as it gets. He was known for working over limbs in the most standard way possible, while guys like Eddie, Arn, Benoit and others would really WORK the limbs and holds. Man now I have the urge to watch Flair/Reed where they spend HALF a 40 minute match working a HEADLOCK. Orton's favourite match probably. Shame he can't replicate it. Love how both men make sure to sell their injuries right up to the end of the match. None of that "shaking it off" crap. Bryan with the multiple running dropkicks in the corner, each time hurting his shoulder but he keeps going back for more regardless of the pain as it doesn't stop him running, then Orton countering with a huge dropkick that fucks his knee up again but he stopped Bryan and he gets a creepy smile on his face that actually made me smile lol. RUNNING KNEE TO THE FACE. BRYAN WINS CLEAN :mark:. Plenty to like about this match, and very little to dislike. Could have done without Kane showing up at the end, since his "interference" was pointless lol. Didn't like this one as much as their December match, but it's still far and away their second best match together. ***3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb

Match ruled. Kane bit was random to start, but I thought it ended up adding something for Danielson's win to come off even stronger. And as the chips falls, it was the way to jumpstart Kane back into this program following Punk's departure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to check out SD next. Not sure if I can be arsed atm though. One match watched and I'm already drained. Need sleep. Woke up at HALF 11 this morning. Earliest I've been up in about a month.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Make sure you see Sheamus vs Ryback. 

And I'll sit here and try to decipher what "HALF 11" actually means. 11:30? 5:30 AM? This is my project for the day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

11:30 is indeed correct. I've normally been getting up after 2pm, but last night I went to bed about 2 hours earlier that I have been and woke up much earlier. Gonna try and go to bed a little earlier tonight too, then hopefully get up earlier 2morrow, so I can hopefully maybe get back into a sleep routine that isn't retarded. Me + Sleep = actually motivated to do shit. There are TONS of matches I've really been in the mood to watch lately but simply haven't gotten around to it because I can't be fucking arsed to get the discs out with them on .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I remember watching the match a couple years ago on YouTube for a WCW greatest matches poll. The match is a long TV match. Went over TV time the show had if I remember correctly because it cut off before the finish. *I believe WCW aired the finish on a later show*. The match is not great but it is cool watching the talent involved working together. There are several other WCW tags in 1992 that are much better and should be viewed.


Yeah, im trying to find out when the ending was shown, Saturday Night/Main Event episode. Anyone know for sure?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

11:30 is early? 

Wish that was true for me.. 

Oh well, have to write an essay about section 4+5 of the voting rights act today, should be loads of fun /sarcasam

I asked this last night but thoughts on NM 04?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol I haven't slept in past 8:00 am in YEARS. I wake up at 5:30 for work mon-Thursday and can never sleep past 7:30 or so on the weekends. Then again I rarely stay up past midnight unless I'm out with friends.

I'm going to watch WarGames 1992 and see if it still holds up as the greatest Big Match ever. I watched 1991 not too long ago and remember loving it an awful lot, haven't seen the 1992 match in ages. Seems fitting with all this 1992 Dangerous Alliance era stuff I've been watching lately.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm about to watch this in a second, but who is the chick in the beginning was she a diva ? Good Lord she is fine, cant start the match w/o finding out


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its obv his mother :ti


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol I just noticed they said "mother" :ti


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

lolol MILFs


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> ...
> 
> Plenty to like about this match, and very little to dislike. Could have done without Kane showing up at the end, since his "interference" was pointless lol. Didn't like this one as much as their December match, but it's still far and away their second best match together. ***3/4.


:mark:

I think I might have to rewatch it again because when a Bryan/Orton match is good, it's really fucking good. Can't wait to see Randy work against Cesaro again in the upcoming weeks.

-------------

Rewatched Cena/Orton from the Rumble a couple of hours ago and I still enjoy it a lot. Sorry folks, but I'll remain a fan for as long as it continues to hold up for me. Completely ignoring the stuff with Cena's dad and "ITZ PERSONAL" aside, I liked how they worked it this time. Started off slow but the pace continuously picked up as they went on and then the finisher exchanges in the end was total awesomeness. Specially because they executed each other's moves without botching the fuck out of it like some others have. Think this is the first time Orton has ever tasted the RKO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This ring work vs mic work thread is giving me a headache 

Watching some PWG ATM :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> This ring work vs mic work thread is giving me a headache


Is that a serious thread. :lol


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Done my WWE Best of 2013 Comp as 2 different versions. Listings below. PM me for more info.*



Spoiler: matchlistings



WWE - Best of 2013 (12 Discs)
Disc 1
Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 09.01.2013
Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 11.01.2013
Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - Smackdown 01.02.2013
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Raw 04.02.2013
Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio - Main Event 13.02.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - Elimination Chamber 2013

Disc 2
The Shield vs Ryback, Sheamus & Chris Jericho - Raw 18.02.2013
John Cena vs CM Punk - Raw 25.02.2013
Undertaker vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania 29
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - No Holds Barred - Wrestlemania 29

Disc 3
Mark Henry & Big Show vs Randy Orton & Sheamus - Smackdown 19.04.2013
The Shield vs Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.04.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - No DQ Match - Smackdown 26.04.2013
Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 26.04.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 29.04.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Main Event 01.05.2013

Disc 4
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Smackdown 03.05.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - Steel Cage Match - Extreme Rules 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.05.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 24.05.2013

Disc 5
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Raw 03.06.2013
Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event 05.06.2013
Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 10.06.2013
Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - Smackdown 14.06.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Smackdown 14.06.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - Payback 2013

Disc 6
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Payback 2013
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - Raw 17.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Street Fight - Raw 24.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Raw 08.07.2013
Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event 10.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Smackdown 12.07.2013

Disc 7
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Money In The Bank 2013
John Cena vs Mark Henry - WWE Championship - Money In The Bank 2013
Chris Jericho vs Rob Van Dam - Raw 15.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback - Gauntlet Match - Raw 22.07.2013
Christian vs Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam - Smackdown 02.08.2013

Disc 8
Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - Smackdown 09.08.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2013
Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk - No DQ Match - Summerslam 2013
Daniel Bryan vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2013

Disc 9
Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.08.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Superstars 30.08.2013
Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 02.09.2013
Randy Orton vs Goldust - Raw 09.09.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns - Raw 16.09.2013
The Shield vs The Usos, Prime Time Players, Rob Van Dam, Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan - Raw 23.09.2013

Disc 10
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - Battleground 2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - No DQ Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 14.10.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2013
John Cena vs Damien Sandow - World Heavyweight Championship - Raw 28.10.2013
John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Smackdown 01.11.2013

Disc 11
John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Raw 04.11.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Real Americans - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 22.11.2013
The Shield, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust, The Usos & Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series 2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 29.11.2013


Disc 12
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Ryback & Curtis Axel vs Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - WWE Tag Team Championships - TLC 2013
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 16.12.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - Smackdown 20.12.2013
The Wyatt Family vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 23.12.2013
John Cena vs Seth Rollins - Smackdown 27.12.2013

WWE - Best of 2013 (26 Discs)
Disc 1
Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - NXT 02.01.2013
John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 07.01.2013
CM Punk vs Ryback - TLC Match - WWE Championship - Raw 07.01.2013
Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 09.01.2013
Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 11.01.2013
Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow - NXT 16.01.2013
Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - Smackdown 01.02.2013

Disc 2
Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio - Raw 04.02.2013
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Raw 04.02.2013
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - NXT 06.02.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho - Raw 11.02.2013
Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio - Main Event 13.02.2013
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - NXT Tag Team Championships - NXT 13.02.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show - World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber 2013

Disc 3
Jack Swagger vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane vs Mark Henry vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton - Elimination Chamber Match - Elimination Chamber 2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - Elimination Chamber 2013
The Shield vs Ryback, Sheamus & Chris Jericho - Raw 18.02.2013
John Cena vs CM Punk - Raw 25.02.2013

Disc 4
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 11.03.2013
Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho - Smackdown 15.03.2013
Wade Barrett vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz - Intercontinental Championship - Raw 18.03.2013
Adrian Neville vs Luke Harper - NXT 20.03.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 01.04.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton & Big Show - Wrestlemania 29
Undertaker vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania 29

Disc 5
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - No Holds Barred - Wrestlemania 29
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston, Brodus Clay & Tensai - Main Event 10.04.2013
William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 10.04.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - Smackdown 19.04.2013
Mark Henry & Big Show vs Randy Orton & Sheamus - Smackdown 19.04.2013
Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 22.04.2013

Disc 6
The Shield vs Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.04.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville - NXT 24.04.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - No DQ Match - Smackdown 26.04.2013
Sheamus vs Big Show - Smackdown 26.04.2013
Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 26.04.2013
Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 29.04.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 29.04.2013

Disc 7
Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Main Event 01.05.2013
Paige vs Summer Rae - NXT 01.05.2013
Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt - NXT 01.05.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Smackdown 03.05.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Randy Orton - Main Event 08.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 10.05.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013

Disc 8
Alberto Del Rio, Randy Orton & Sheamus vs Jack Swagger, Big Show & Mark Henry - Smackdown 17.05.2013
Randy Orton vs Big Show - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2013
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - Steel Cage Match - Extreme Rules 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.05.2013
Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - NXT 22.05.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Chris Jericho vs Big Show - Smackdown 24.05.2013

Disc 9
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013
Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - Main Event 29.05.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 03.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - Raw 03.06.2013
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - NXT 05.06.2013

Disc 10
Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event 05.06.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Smackdown 07.06.2013
Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 10.06.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT 12.06.2013
Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - Smackdown 14.06.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Smackdown 14.06.2013
AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn - Divas Championship - Payback 2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - Payback 2013

Disc 11
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Payback 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - WWE Tag Team Championships - Payback 2013
CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - Raw 17.06.2013
The Shield vs The Usos & Justin Gabriel - Main Event 19.06.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara - Main Event 19.06.2013
The Wyatt Family vs Adrian Neville, Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - NXT 19.06.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 21.06.2013

Disc 12
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Street Fight - Raw 24.06.2013
Chris Jericho vs Cody Rhodes - Main Event 26.06.2013
Bo Dallas vs Antonio Cesaro - NXT Championship - NXT 03.07.2013
Randy Orton vs Christian - Smackdown 05.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Raw 08.07.2013
CM Punk vs Randy Orton - Raw 08.07.2013
Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger - NXT 10.07.2013
The Wyatt Family vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & William Regal - NXT 10.07.2013

Disc 13
Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event 10.07.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Christian - Smackdown 12.07.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Money In The Bank 2013
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango vs Antonio Cesaro vs Jack Swagger vs Dean Ambrose - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - Money In The Bank 2013

Disc 14
John Cena vs Mark Henry - WWE Championship - Money In The Bank 2013
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Rob Van Dam vs CM Punk vs Sheamus vs Christian - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Chris Jericho vs Rob Van Dam - Raw 15.07.2013
Christian vs Fandango - Main Event 17.07.2013
Adrian Neville & Corey Graves vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - NXT Tag Team Championships - NXT 17.07.2013
Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 19.07.2013

Disc 15
Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback - Gauntlet Match - Raw 22.07.2013
Paige vs Emma - NXT Divas Championship - NXT 24.07.2013
Sheamus vs Luke Harper - NXT 24.07.2013
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Raw 29.07.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - Raw 29.07.2013
Christian vs Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam - Smackdown 02.08.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Raw 05.08.2013

Disc 16
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Main Event 07.08.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Adrian Neville - US Championship - NXT 07.08.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - Smackdown 09.08.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Cody Rhodes - Main Event 14.08.2013
The Shield vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & Xavier Woods - NXT 14.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - No DQ Match - Smackdown 16.08.2013
Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2013

Disc 17
Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk - No DQ Match - Summerslam 2013
Daniel Bryan vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2013
Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - 2/3 Falls - NXT 21.08.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Steel Cage Match - Smackdown 23.08.2013

Disc 18
Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.08.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Superstars 30.08.2013
Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 02.09.2013
Sami Zayn vs Jack Swagger - NXT 04.09.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - Smackdown 06.09.2013
Randy Orton vs Goldust - Raw 09.09.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship - Night of Champions 2013

Disc 19
Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns - Raw 16.09.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & The Usos - Smackdown 20.09.2013
The Shield vs The Usos, Prime Time Players, Rob Van Dam, Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan - Raw 23.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler, Rob Van Dam & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 27.09.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - Battleground 2013
Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Shield - Raw 07.10.2013

Disc 20
Antonio Cesaro vs Leo Kruger - NXT 08.10.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Erik Rowan & Luke Harper - Smackdown 11.10.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - No DQ Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 14.10.2013
Bo Dallas vs Sami Zayn - NXT Championship - NXT 16.10.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Smackdown 18.10.2013
Seth Rollins vs Goldust - Main Event 23.10.2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big E Langston - Smackdown 25.10.2013

Disc 21
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2013
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Hell In A Cell - Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship - Hell In A Cell 2013
John Cena vs Damien Sandow - World Heavyweight Championship - Raw 28.10.2013
John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Smackdown 01.11.2013
John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Raw 04.11.2013

Disc 22
Luke Harper vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 06.11.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & CM Punk - Raw 11.11.2013
Adrian Neville vs Corey Graves - 2/3 Falls - NXT 13.11.2013
The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Usos - Raw 18.11.2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Real Americans - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 22.11.2013
The Shield vs Rey Mysterio & The Usos - Smackdown 22.11.2013

Disc 23
The Shield, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust, The Usos & Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series 2013
Daniel Bryan & CM Punk vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - Survivor Series 2013
Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio - Main Event 27.11.2013
Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn - NXT 27.11.2013

Disc 24
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 29.11.2013
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big Show - Raw 02.12.2013
Goldust vs Ryback - Main Event 04.12.2013
Paige vs Natalya - NXT Divas Championship - NXT 04.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 06.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Raw 09.12.2013

Disc 25
Dolph Ziggler vs Curtis Axel - Main Event 11.12.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Usos - Smackdown 13.12.2013
The Shield vs CM Punk - TLC 2013
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Ryback & Curtis Axel vs Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - WWE Tag Team Championships - TLC 2013
Daniel Bryan vs The The Wyatt Family - TLC 2013
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 16.12.2013

Disc 26
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - Smackdown 20.12.2013
The Wyatt Family vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 23.12.2013
Goldust vs Jack Swagger - Main Event 25.12.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal - NXT 25.12.2013
John Cena vs Seth Rollins - Smackdown 27.12.2013
Daniel Bryan vs Luke Harper - Raw 30.12.2013



*Vol. 2 of The Shield set and Vol. 1 of Goldust's comeback run will also be out next week. *


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ As someone who has bought from Seabs in the past, I can vouch for anyone unfamiliar that he is the most reliable and economical person I've seen so far in terms of dispatching orders quickly and effortlessly, with his prices being easily affordable for people of all incomes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> SLUURRP SLUURP GAG GAG GAG SLUURP SLUUURRRRRRRP MMMM SEABS' COCK IS YUMMY


Fixed .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that if you look at something like Cena/Rock II or Orton/Cena at the Royal Rumble, they both have a redeeming quality in the sense that well..... Finisher fests are pretty cool to look at sometimes .

Yes, both of those matches are terrible, but when I see CENA bust out an RKO, a rock bottom, or a people's elbow, I immediately mark the fuck out. It was just so obvious in both instances that Cena made the call to swap finishers to save the match from the crowd, and both times it failed rather than letting it happen organically like Rock/Austin III.

& JESUS SEABS DA GAWD. When SHIELD's run is over and you have their entire run on disc then I'd love to make a purchase from you :mark:.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Fixed .


Not sure why you're C+P'ing reviews found @ www.mozza'smaescortservice.com


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I think that if you look at something like Cena/Rock II or Orton/Cena at the Royal Rumble, they both have a redeeming quality in the sense that well..... Finisher fests are pretty cool to look at sometimes .
> 
> Yes, both of those matches are terrible, but when I see CENA bust out an RKO, a rock bottom, or a people's elbow, I immediately mark the fuck out. It was just so obvious in both instances that Cena made the call to swap finishers to save the match from the crowd, and both times it failed rather than letting it happen organically like Rock/Austin III.


To be fair, Orton/Cena was nowhere near as bad as Rock/Cena II when it comes to finishers being busted out. For the latter, I think they kicked out of a finisher at least four times each. At least with Orton/Cena, they kicked out of each other's finisher once as well as once after stealing their finishers. Four in total, which is not that bad even if the match is not big enough to warrant that many but they had to do with they could in order to save the match from the shitty crowd and it kind of worked towards the end as they finally shut up and Orton even got a big pop when he pinned Cena.

The reason I don't buy the finisher-fest argument against the match is because Punk/Cena from Night of Champions was even worse and gets worshiped by pretty much everyone. And that was damn sure no Rock/Austin III in terms of epicness to justify them hitting finisher after finisher. What a surprise that Cena is involved in all of these.  He's really not good at protecting his finishers. Even The Miz kicked out of the FU on free TV at one point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Not sure why you're C+P'ing reviews found @ www.mozza'smaescortservice.com


Huh?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Huh?


A long running joke about Mozza's ma having more conquests than Robbie Keane has had clubs. Basically, I was running spare for a reply and that's what I could muster.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> A long running joke about Mozza's ma having more conquests than Robbie Keane has had clubs. Basically, I was running spare for a reply and that's what I could muster.


I don't know who Mozza is.

FAIL.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)




----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought Cena/Punk at Night of Champions was an example of a finisher fest being done correctly. I say this because when you compare Cena/Punk to Cena/Rock II & Orton/Cena, there's a great deal of urgency in the latter two to get the crowd back after a lackluster first half. You can just tell in Orton/Cena that they were like "K, this isn't working, time to move onto the finishers I guess", where as in Punk/Cena you don't get that urgency as they laid a nice groundwork already to allow the finisher fest to happen (Cena doing a suicide dive? WTF) so when it happened it came off more as Punk/Cena doing everything they can to beat one another (PUNK BOTTOM, Second rope german suplex :mark rather than just a desperation ploy to get the crowd engaged.

Cena protecting his finisher is something else though, I don't think he needs to protect it very much anymore due to winning so many matches with it and everybody automatically assuming that he's going to win anyways . When it comes to one of his BIG matches though he needs to have a one FU win soon, I mean look at the Extreme Rules match with BROCK and how special that FU was.

Cena needs a big match where the story is that he can't hit the FU (No, not against a monster heel either ) due to the other guy having his number, then you could have it be kind of a reverse Batista/HHH situation where Cena hits it in the blowoff match and wins. IT'S NOT THAT HARD GUYS :lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Cena NoC also happens to have the second best control segment of 2012, behind arguably the greatest control segment in company history. But it's cool if you still like Cena/Orton. We all have matches that we like even if everyone here shits on them. Cal has Taker/Austin BL 02. I have Punk/Jericho PB. Cody somehow likes Chono/Muta at Starrcade 92. And Yeah somehow sees something redeemable about Led Luger in the 90s.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Caught SD in bits and pieces over the weekend because I was too busy playing with myself my PS4 :lenny

Bryan vs. Cesaro was obviously great, but the ending :mark:

Oh, and I enjoyed Sheamus vs. Ryback more than I thought I would. Then again, Sheamus vs. BIG GUYZ is usually pretty damn good (except for the Strap Match with Mark Henry for some god damn reason).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus/Henry sucked because the four corners gimmick killed it, which reminds me ....

GOD DAMN IT WWE. YOU HAD A CHANCE TO GIVE US SHEAMUS VERSUS MARK FUCKING HENRY IN A REGULAR STRAP MATCH AND YOU FAILED. 

FUCK YOU.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The WWE had a chance to give us Sheamus vs. Lesnar at Royal Rumble but they did not do so. Life sucks. Shit, have Undertaker and Sheamus ever faced off?

Ronnie Garvin vs. Tully Blanchard 5/3/86 ruled. Go watch it, fools. Thanks WOOLCOCK. Garvin was so good here. Reminded me of Dolph Ziggler, which is almost always a good thing :ziggler3


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sheamus/Lesnar is another match that WWE should give us in 2014. I don't know if we have a better brawler than Sheamus in WWE today, mix that with Lesnar's great MMA Style and you have yourself a classic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LOL Lesnar Vs Sheamus. Fuck that. We NEED Lesnar Vs STING. At WM. And Sting should win.

:lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

That thread. :ti 

This section sometimes. :ti


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> LOL Lesnar Vs Sheamus. Fuck that. We NEED Lesnar Vs STING. At WM. And Sting should win.
> 
> :lmao


Fuck that. Sting needs to join the Wyatt family. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's true! Because he's kinda like a demon so it makes sense!

:lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I really hope you guys joke with those Sting ideas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We're taking the piss out of some recent threads actually made by "people" on here .

Nobody in their right mind wants Sting in WWE in any capacity...


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> I really hope you guys joke with those Sting ideas


Did you see the Sting v. Lesnar thread? If so you'll get the jokes.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I have indeed, and it's no slight on Hansen/Funk which is one of my favourite pairings in wrestling history, but Duggan/Sawyer is a timeless masterpiece. The punches, the wild and dangerous bumps, the perfectly timed comebacks and cut offs, the mesmerising post match angle which sees them fight all the way to the back and Sawyer screaming for Duggan's head before passing out due to blood loss etc..just a masterclass angle.




I'd see Sawyer's passing out, and raise you Hansen throwing the bloody rope onto a well-dressed Japanese fan in the front row. 



Chismo said:


> Hansen's performance in that match is one of the greatest I've ever seen from anyone anywhere.


Without a doubt. I remember watching this match with a couple MMA buddies, and both started marking for Hansen's stiffness - Kneedrop to the back of the head, weighted elbows, kicks. Though not usually wrestling fans, they almost immediately drew sympathy for Funk, and started referring to Hansen as "that dick" or "this asshole". :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't know, I'd enjoy a match that consisted of BORK screaming and Sting Reverse DDT'ing himself onto chairs while wearing a t-shirt in a comedic sort of way. :brock


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Missed that, for an unknown reason I;m not very sad about that . I want Sting in WWE as an Authority Figure if they really bring him in. Anyone who has seen his last matches in TNA would understand why I don't want him in a match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just rewatched bryan/orton from last week w/o that commercial break, yea its really good, at first I thought the commercial broke the flow and after the break they went back to their ppv's formula but they didnt. Only small gripe I still have was I wanted Orton to work Bryan's arm a bit better, but it was fine. Pretty good match and It would be my MOTY at this point, or maybe that 5 man tag after the rr


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Nobody in their right mind wants Sting in WWE in any capacity...


:lmao

But seriously, the guy that made that Wyatt/Sting thread is a comedian. He once made a thread about undeserved egos and kept saying Foley has one and his explanation for it was so retarded that I'm in tears just thinking about it. :lmao

EDIT: Jack Evans 187 is browsing this thread. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

That isn't even the worst IMO. The unpopular opinions thread has some of the most idiotic shit I've read on the Internet about anything, let alone wrestling. :lol


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

King Cal said:


> We're taking the piss out of some recent threads actually made by "people" on here .
> 
> Nobody in their right mind wants Sting in WWE in any capacity...


I'm not opposed to seeing Sting in the WWE, I think just the fact the he would actually come after all these years would pretty immense & mind blowing.

But do I wanna see him wrestle? not really.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GUYS! I haven't been on here in months, how's everyone been doing? I've been hating the state of the WWE ever since Survivor Series basically and Call of Duty Ghosts has been overtaking my night life (like Infiniti Ward always does) so I've been following from a far. Have I missed anything _that _special other than Bryan vs. Wyatt from the Rumble? I have a friend who is always so optimistic about the company and I refuse to believe half the things he says. haha


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Nothing special happened aside from Punk leaving


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like KING CAL had enough and closed the Sting/Lesnar thread. :lmao



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Have I missed anything _that _special other than Bryan vs. Wyatt from the Rumble? I have a friend who is always so optimistic about the company and I refuse to believe half the things he says. haha


YES! You missed two absolutely awesome Raw matches between Bryan and Orton that everyone has been praising including the usual Orton detractors.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

CAL laying down the law :mark:



Jack Evans 187 said:


> GUYS! I haven't been on here in months, how's everyone been doing? I've been hating the state of the WWE ever since Survivor Series basically and Call of Duty Ghosts has been overtaking my night life (like Infiniti Ward always does) so I've been following from a far. Have I missed anything that special other than Bryan vs. Wyatt from the Rumble? I have a friend who is always so optimistic about the company and I refuse to believe half the things he says. haha


There've been quite a few TV matches worth watching since Survivor Series. TLC and RR were mostly crap, but EC is looking solid


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Nothing special happened aside from Punk leaving


Which I think is ultimately gonna help the company in the long run because MAYBE the company will open their damn eyes and push the right guys for once. I haven't enjoyed hardly any of the authority storyline since the start and I still don't. I'm hoping Bryan wins the Chamber, Batista turns heel and loses to Bryan in the main event of Mania. That's the only way I'll be interested in a Batista match.



Choke2Death said:


> Looks like KING CAL had enough and closed the Sting/Lesnar thread. :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> YES! You missed two absolutely awesome Raw matches between Bryan and Orton that everyone has been praising including the usual Orton detractors.


I actually caught a little bit of their most recent one on RAW while my dad was watching (think Bryan won?). Looked like Bryan was doing a lot of legwork which Orton has normally been great on selling. Reminded me a lot of one of their Smackdown matches from... August of 2011 maybe. Had the superplex spot too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone have a link to this match:

NWA U.S. Tag Team Champions The Midnight Express (w/Jim Cornette) vs. The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88) 

Thought it may be on Goodhelmets' ME comp, but can't see it on the listing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Which I think is ultimately gonna help the company in the long run because MAYBE the company will open their damn eyes and push the right guys for once. I haven't enjoyed hardly any of the authority storyline since the start and I still don't. I'm hoping Bryan wins the Chamber, Batista turns heel and loses to Bryan in the main event of Mania. That's the only way I'll be interested in a Batista match.


I'm afraid I got some bad news... it's supposedly written into Batista's contract that he'll win the title in the WM main event. So Bryan's title run wont come until after WM. Let's hope he makes HHH tap out instead.



> I actually caught a little bit of their most recent one on RAW while my dad was watching (think Bryan won?). Looked like Bryan was doing a lot of legwork which Orton has normally been great on selling. Reminded me a lot of one of their Smackdown matches from... August of 2011 maybe. Had the superplex spot too.


Watch them both, Orton also does some great shoulder work on Bryan. Their other match is dated 16 December, the night after TLC.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMFG. Batista walks in and wins the Royal Rumble, Sheamus returns as a face, The New Age Fucking Outlaws are the Tag Team Champions completely out of nowhere (at least they can still perform in the ring I guess?), and Punk leaves the company. This is not good...

I just logged onto XWT for the first time this year and my ratio is at a 5.7. :lmao JEEEEZUS


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

At least Bryan is going to go over HHH at Mania...or maybe Kane...or maybe Tons of Funk in the pre show. :HHH2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> OMFG. Batista walks in and wins the Royal Rumble, Sheamus returns as a face, The New Age Fucking Outlaws are the Tag Team Champions completely out of nowhere (*at least they can still perform in the ring I guess?*), and Punk leaves the company. This is not good...
> 
> I just logged onto XWT for the first time this year and my ratio is at a 5.7. :lmao JEEEEZUS


Not really, all they really do is rest holds, but then again they were never the best tag team to begin with, which makes putting the tag titles on them in their 40's even more idiotic.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)




----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Anyone have a link to this match:
> 
> NWA U.S. Tag Team Champions The Midnight Express (w/Jim Cornette) vs. The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88)
> 
> Thought it may be on Goodhelmets' ME comp, but can't see it on the listing.


Dailymotion link isn't working, but I think that match is actually on the set. Look for (WWW 5/14/88). According to Seabs, 4/26 was the tape date and 5/14 was the air date.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I watched the Outlaws' cage match with The Rhodes Bros and didn't think it was too bad, really enjoyed the last few minutes. Still ridiculous they're the champs though. 

At this point, if Triple H wrestles anyone at Wrestlemania I'd like it to be Roman Reigns. I guess giving Bryan a win at Mania and having him win the belt at Extreme Rules wouldn't be _that_ bad though...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Dailymotion link isn't working, but I think that match is actually on the set. Look for (WWW 5/14/88). According to Seabs, 4/26 was the tape date and 5/14 was the air date.


Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh.  Thanks Wooly. That is where i got mixed up, on the air/taped dates. Yeah i got it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Gonna go and watch every Elimination Chamber sometime this month for the PPV and because I've missed quite a few of them 

Or maybe I'll just watch some WarGames matches. Starting with '92. DANGEROUS ALLIANCE :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Check out Marty Jannetty vs. Doink the Clown from RAW somewhere in '93. It looks weird as hell on paper, but it's an excellent match. Mysterio and Del Rio had a good one on Smackdown in early 2011 too, but it's not one of the best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Or maybe I'll just watch some WarGames matches. Starting with '92. DANGEROUS ALLIANCE :mark:


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...ance-vs-sting-s-squadron-wargames-1992-a.html

You get Ventura's commentary too. :mark:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Found these gems while surfing today:






Should have gone on longer, but brilliant work on both men's part. At times it didn't feel like a WWE match, nice little technical battle. Should have been longer, however. *** 3/4 or ****






This match was very good, especially considering that it was my first time watching both men. Left me wanting to see more of both men's work. Especially impressive considering their ages. Not a fan of the superkick back and forth, but they did it to perfection. The time was better than the Regal v. Benoit match and allowed for a better showcasing of their talent. The praise I've herd about them is no lie as I have seen in that match. *** 3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel BOTB 9/2/85 stands out immediately as an all time great 2/3 falls match. There's a shitload of Buddy Rose matches in Portland where the 2/3 falls format was utilised heavily, and there's some really well revered Buddy matches which I'm still working my way through. Rose/Martel 8/9/80 has earnt massive praise from someone on here who I typically go out of my way to watch matches they pimp highly, so if you want a new discovery I'd recommend that match - which is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Rrcql2S-w

Marty Jones/Dynamite Kid (2/5/83) and Marty Jones/Steve Wright (4/23/86) are also two of the better WOS matches which go three falls. I'm struggling to think of much else bar delving into Lucha, but I'm not sure how familiar you are with Lucha so I'll refrain for the time being.




The Hitman said:


> Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh.  Thanks Wooly. That is where i got mixed up, on the air/taped dates. Yeah i got it.


No problem. I had the same query as you when I first perused the ME set and Seabs clarified it there and then.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Well since you are an Eddie fan I would suggest the match he had with Kurt Angle on Smackdown in 2004. Also, Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio on Smackdown shortly after No Mercy in 2002. There is also a good Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich 2/3 Falls Match on Flair's second individual DVD. Check those out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel BOTB 9/2/85 stands out immediately as an all time great 2/3 falls match. There's a shitload of Buddy Rose matches in Portland where the 2/3 falls format was utilised heavily, and there's some really well revered Buddy matches which I'm still working my way through. Rose/Martel 8/9/80 has earnt massive praise from someone on here who I typically go out of my way to watch matches they pimp highly, so if you want a new discovery I'd recommend that match - which is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Rrcql2S-w
> 
> Marty Jones/Dynamite Kid (2/5/83) and Marty Jones/Steve Wright (4/23/86) are also two of the better WOS matches which go three falls. I'm struggling to think of much else bar delving into Lucha, but I'm not sure how familiar you are with Lucha so I'll refrain for the time being.
> 
> ...




Have you seen the Buddy Rose vs. Roddy Piper (2/3 falls)(Portland 9/13/80) match? I need to see more of both really, esp early Piper.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Actually FLUX, add Danielson/London from Epic Encounter to your 2/3 falls viewing list. I have no clue if a link is online, but you may have luck with a torrent site. Tremendous match with one of Danielson's best performances pre '06, and London really demonstrates why people really thought he would go on to be one of the best workers around when he first came to ROH. Very good babyface performance from him, with great long-term selling and the build to the bigger spots being smartly worked and teased. One of ROH's better matches.

@ Zep - I'm well behind on my Rose viewing and can't confess to have seeing enough of his work, though the snippets I've seen have me convinced I'll come out of the Rose and AWA sets thinking he's an all time great, based on his mannerisms and overall performance.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Guerrero/Malenko 2/3 falls from ECW is awesome if you haven't seen it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11111_ecw-malenko-vs-guerrero-2-3-falls_sport


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ARN vs. Big Josh (also known as Matt Bourne also known as Doink The Clown) is another hidden gem to check out from WCW Saturday Night. I want to say it was from May of '92. DOINK also had a good 2/3 falls on one of the earlier Raws with Marty Janetty. Of course these are not on the level of the Flair 2/3 Falls classic but entertaining and worth a watch none-the-less.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/Jericho from SummerSlam is my favorite 2/3 falls match that is not Bryan/Sheamus. Must watch imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Benoit/Jericho 2/3 falls sucks .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

According to CAL only. But you're weird like that so it doesn't matter. 

Benoit/Jericho (SummerSlam) >>> Austin/Taker (Backlash)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who else thinks its great?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know about "great", but other than you, I've never seen anyone say it sucks.

Dragon Suplex alone makes it ★★★.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Definitely, definitely watch Arn/Borne. Was Arn/Windham 6/6/92 2/3 falls? I honestly don't remember but it went a long time so I'm going to assume it did as well.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


*Arn vs Josh.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is Austin/Windham from 1992 like? That was 2/3 Falls.

Or The Hollywood Blondes vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson from COTC.

EDIT: Also Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (2/3 falls) (ECW 3/9/96) and Rey/Psicosis.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle Vs Benoit JD 01 8*D.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't remember Benoit/Jericho 2/3 falls being much special at all. They get about twelve minutes IIRC and as a result I found it severely handicapped them in pacing the match logically and building the falls into an engrossing narrative. It felt very by the numbers and I feel they were robbed from having the time to construct a longer and potentially better match. Definitely don't think it's anywhere close to the other 2/3 falls matches mentioned so far.



Clique said:


> ARN vs. Big Josh (also known as Matt Bourne also known as Doink The Clown) is another hidden gem to check out from WCW Saturday Night. I want to say it was from May of '92. DOINK also had a good 2/3 falls on one of the earlier Raws with Marty Janetty. Of course these are not on the level of the Flair 2/3 Falls classic but entertaining and worth a watch none-the-less.





Yeah1993 said:


> Definitely, definitely watch Arn/Borne.





Seabs said:


> *Arn vs Josh.*


Fuck me sideways for overlooking Arn/Big Josh. Co-sign the above recommendations wholeheartedly for that match, absolutely terrific.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Go watch Danielson/London, Flair/everybody, Jannetty/Doink, Mysterio/Psychosis, Malenko/Eddie (kinda hated here, but I like it), and Luger/Flair.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow this thread was alive while I was away, and we had a RETURN :mark: 

Thinking about watching some more EC matches myself


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Let's hope that Jack Evans 187 doesn't pull a Batista. Not sure how he would do that, but returns of any kind in wrestling nowadays are weak. Only remedy would be Regal or Finlay having one more return run or the GOAT coming back to Chicago for the GOAT pop.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Goldust just had a great return, Brocks ofc was :mark: as well

Edit: everyone go watch Kevin Steen vs El Generico in a ladder match, selling at its best


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I need some ratings on the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar trilogy!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal- I'm with C2D the Benoit/Jericho 2/3 Falls match was really good, I gave it ***3/4 on last watch. I remember you shitting on it before I watched I the first time and I went in expecting crap but it actually was pretty well done. I love how Jericho taps to the Crossface because he knows he has another fall to go and wants to save his strength, but then that rabid Wolverine just locks it right back in and Jericho fights his way out of it because he knows he will lose otherwise. Smartly done.

Flux- outside of the matches you listed which are the all time great 2/3 falls matches, go with Eddie/Angle on Smackdown in 2004 (blows all their other contests from that year out of the water), Eddie/Malenko final match in ECW (sooo emotional and well done), and then the Wahoo/Flair match in 1985 at BotB. Those 4 matches are all awesome, I think the Wahoo/Flair match might be the best. I haven't seen any other Wahoo matches but he was absolutely awesome in that contest.

JackEvans187- Welcome back dude! Nice to have one of the good guys back


Iwasawesome:

Here are my ratings for that annoying Brock/Trips trilogy:

Summerslam: ***1/4
WrestleMania: ***
Extreme Rules: **3/4 (absolutely LOATHE how this was structured


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> I need some ratings on the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar trilogy!


SummerSlam: ***

WrestleMania: *** 1/2 or *** 3/4 IMO

Extreme Rules: **** or *** 3/4

I'll go more in depth later.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Conversely to what Cjacks said, I thought extreme rules was superb and the only one I will ever watch again in the series. I loved Brock's selling and mannerisms, thought it was stiff and rough, Paul E being the GOAT on the outside only added 10x to the match. It also helps that I watched it in German, as the WAY more lively announcers were adding excitement and a big time match aura to the match


Hopefully this doesnt start hhh/lesnar talk #1334455545


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We will end the Lesnar/HHH talk by saying that it should have been Sheamus, Orton, and/or Rock at WM and ER instead of :jpl and :HHH2. Yes, I picked Orton. Imagine Lesnar crushing Orton in Orton's hometown at ER.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Did someone say 2/3 falls? :HHH2 :hbk


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Slowly advancing in my quest to watch every Jericho match I can find, currently watching his 96 run (found 1 match from 94, 5 from 95).

Only found two of his ECW matches, both being pretty poor (**), imo (his opponents sucked).

His 96 WCW matches up next, I remember the Fall Brawl one against Benoit being pretty good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Flux said:


> Been watching 2/3 falls matches today and I've come to the conclusion that it may just very well be my favourite match stip. of all time. Anybody got any suggestions for some? I've already watched Sheamus/Bryan, Arn/Windham, the WCW 6 man, Flair/Steamboat and Zayn/Cesaro. Obv. I've watched the best of the best already, but I just love the match type so any suggestions?


Fuck what everyone else says, watch this one:






Five star cult classic for the NWA strap. :mark:




PGSucks said:


> Did someone say 2/3 falls? :HHH2 :hbk


:usangle


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yes, I picked Orton. Imagine Lesnar crushing Orton in Orton's hometown at ER.


I'm 100% behind that because ANY reason to have that match is a good reason. 

Hopefully Batista goes away for the summer to promote a movie or something and they do this match for SummerSlam. It only makes sense because other than Orton, only Taker or Rock would take priority over him for Brock matches business wise from WWE's perspective. Pointing that out because I know somebody will post a fantasy list of a bunch of jobbers they would "rather" face Brock than Orton.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was hoping for Orton vs. Lesnar at WM29 simply because I knew that HHH was gonna get his win back. Sheamus would've been nice too. Maybe I'm just bitter that WWE had Lesnar wrestle a trilogy against the same wrestler with his limited dates :jose


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm 100% behind that because ANY reason to have that match is a good reason.
> 
> Hopefully Batista goes away for the summer to promote a movie or something and they do this match for SummerSlam. It only makes sense because other than Orton, only Taker or Rock would take priority over him for Brock matches business wise from WWE's perspective. Pointing that out because I know somebody will post a fantasy list of a bunch of *jobbers they would "rather" face Brock than Orton.*


Brock/Barrett :mark:


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> SummerSlam: ***
> 
> WrestleMania: *** 1/2 or *** 3/4 IMO
> 
> ...


Thanks. wasn't the SS match a bit better than WM29?


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

What about the HBK/Y2J Trilogy from 2008? forgot if they had a RAW match but they fought 3 times on PPV. i like the ladder match and the bloody match from GAB08.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Brock vs. Chavo Guerrero :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I was hoping for Orton vs. Lesnar at WM29 simply because I knew that HHH was gonna get his win back. Sheamus would've been nice too. *Maybe I'm just bitter that WWE had Lesnar wrestle a trilogy against the same wrestler with his limited dates* :jose


Don't worry, we all are!

I'd rather had Brock squash Kofi around at the Royal Rumble over the atrocity with the Big Show tbh. At least the former would be entertaining because it'd involve more than just hitting a chair about a million times in a row.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh my god guys, I just had another thought of a jobber who I'd like to see face Brock... match would OWN:

Brock/Cesaro

DAT MATCH. (don't think I've even seen it whispered before) :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Brock/Barrett :mark:


why on earth would anybody want that


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cesaro a jobber :kobe


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Funnyfaces made a comment a few pages ago where he referred to the Brock control segment in Brock/Cena ER as "The GOAT control segment". That got me thinking, while that segment was surely brilliant and definitely one for the ages, what are some other segments that stand out to you as being some of the greatest you've seen? The first one that comes to mind for me is Taker's control segment to start out his Cell match with Michaels. That is one of the more entertaining and badass ones I can ever remember seeing, Taker just looked like this unstoppable force, and it gets bonus points because he was destroying that little shit heel HBK. Not very often that you get that sort of dynamic, were you have this monster who is a baby face just delivering punishment on a much smaller heel who absolutely deserves to get his comeuppance. Some others that immediately came to mind are Austin's control segment against Angle in their SummerSlam match, Vader's control segment against Flair at Starrcade, Mark Henry's control segment against Punk on Raw, Finlay's control segment against Matt Hardy on Smackdown, and Bam Bam Bigelow's control segment against Bret Hart at King of the Ring 1993. Oh, and Eddie's got numerous great control segments, particularly against Rey, but my favorite in that feud just might be the one he works at GAB 2005. God that was a work of performance art.

We can also discuss the other side of a great control segment, the best firey baby face comebacks. Number 1 in my book has to be Eddie's comeback against JBL at Judgement Day. When he starts shrugging off punches, completely drenched in his own blood, and starts doing the "Latino Heat" dance then firing up some massive punches, man it really doesn't get too much better than that.

This is all just singles contests I was thinking of, if we including great control segments in tags and great smoking hot tags we could go on all day.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Let's hope that Jack Evans 187 doesn't pull a Batista. Not sure how he would do that, but returns of any kind in wrestling nowadays are weak. Only remedy would be Regal or Finlay having one more return run or the GOAT coming back to Chicago for the GOAT pop.


:batista3:



I_Was_Awesome said:


> I need some ratings on the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar trilogy!


Summerslam - ** 1/2 (seen this 3 times and it bores me more each time)
Wrestlemania - **** (seen it twice and LOVED it the 2nd time but completely understand why someone wouldn't)
Extreme Rules - ** 3/4 (meh, really didn't like how it was structured/worked and didn't merit much in terms of importance)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Cesaro a jobber :kobe



I think you need to put that Kobe smiley on time out. You're spamming it worse than Kurt Angles ankle lock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Kobe smiley is not that bothersome even when spammed.

Fuck this one, though: :banderas I liked it at first but it's so overused nowadays that it gets annoying. A certain someone in this thread is very guilty of it too.

On topic: Cesaro/Brock would be sick and definitely a good bonus after Brock/Orton and Brock/SHEAMUS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> why on earth would anybody want that


Actually, the match could've been something great had they built up Barrett correctly... and if they could've found a way to turn one of them face, which right now is damn near impossible. I think they'd have great chemistry tbh. Suppose it doesn't matter, we'll never know. And now Barrett's a comedy character, so it would never work even if there was a 1% chance of it happening.

It's actually not one of my top matches for Brock either though. Taker, Rock, Punk (rematch), Bryan, Cena (rematch), Sheamus, Cesaro (especially if we have Zeb managing him and we get Zeb/Heyman promo battles :mark: ), and Henry I'd want to see before Brock/Barrett is even a thought. 

Oh, and of course, Brock/HHH IV :HHH2

Speaking of that...



> I need some ratings on the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar trilogy!


SS- ***
WM29- *
ER- **1/2

I tried sitting through the WM29 match recently. I turned it off a few minutes in.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The Kobe smiley is not that bothersome even when spammed.
> 
> Fuck this one, though: :banderas I liked it at first but it's so overused nowadays that it gets annoying. A certain someone in this thread is very guilty of it too.
> 
> On topic: Cesaro/Brock would be sick and definitely a good bonus after Brock/Orton and Brock/SHEAMUS.


Can't disagree more. The Kobe one is just such a pretentious, annoying, douchebaggy face. It should be used in situations that call for such a face, not someone saying something uncontroversial you simply happen to disagree with.

Okay sorry about the smiley talk, anyone else got some all time great singles control segments/comebacks they can throw out?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its just a smilie BRO

which I used like twice


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Fuck this one, though: :banderas I liked it at first but it's so overused nowadays that it gets annoying. A certain someone in this thread is very guilty of it too.


:draper2, you think thats bad dont go in the catbox

Oh hey Corey


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> :kobe





SMITTY said:


> *Judgment day 2004 review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*



SMITTY said:



Cesaro a jobber :kobe

Click to expand...




SMITTY said:



Hardy I quit great :kobe

I am one of the few that prefer the BL Swagger/Christian match to the TV one, Steamboat match rules, and thats it, not a fan of the two title matches or Kane/Punk

Click to expand...




SMITTY said:



:kobe 

There was much worse errors imo 

Click to expand...




*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ ROFL @ going out of your way to find a few of those. :lol



SKINS said:


> :draper2, you think thats bad dont go in the catbox


I don't. Not even if I get premium. Which is unlikely unless somebody buys it for me because there's no way I'll waste 10 dollars on a membership in a forum.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> ^ ROFL @ going out of your way to find a few of those. :lol
> 
> 
> 
> I don't. Not even if I get premium. Which is unlikely unless somebody buys it for me because there's no way I'll waste 10 dollars on a membership in a forum.



Lol it wasn't any work just search "SMITTY" and ": kobe" and like 7 results pop up from the last month alone.

I'm popping in my Mid South set, the Ghetto Street Fight between Butch Reed and JYD, besides being an obviously offensive gimmick name, is just too much fun to resist right now.

And about the Premium Membership thing, it's everyone's own choice obviously, I just figured I get so many hours of entertainment a month talking with you fine people, shelling out $10 to ensure the forum can keep paying it's monthly server fees only seemed fair. I can't imagine the admin's on this place make a dime for keeping it open, it wouldn't surprise me if they had to shell out their own cash occasionally to keep it up and free for everyone.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:ajscream is the GOAT smiley.

Batista/Michaels BL 08 sucks.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:ti

this is too much


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Its obv his mother :ti





SMITTY said:


> The pop Rey got when he got out :ti
> 
> Will probably rewatch when I get home and will write about it
> 
> ...





SMITTY said:


> That Punk hate C2D :ti
> 
> tough to say a MOTN, might need to rewatch both title matches





SMITTY said:


> Sandow :ti
> 
> The Reigns hate is just because ppl dont like how the guy has the look
> 
> AKA: We want more vanilla midgets





SMITTY said:


> :ti at these people trying to tell me that Ambrose is the best in the Shield
> 
> anyone else think the dude is terrible in the ring?





SMITTY said:


> And they want this guy as the face of the company :ti





SMITTY said:


> :ti
> 
> this is too much



You've spammed that one an awful lot as well 

I'm just fucking with you Smitty :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What thread is this? Fuck off with that bullshit smiley crap. All the smileys suck bar the Simpsons ones and that random one of me, because it's ME and I rule. 

Talk about wrestling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Not my fault they bring some emotion into some GOAT posts  

And I hope you're just messing with me, seems obsessive if not haha

OK Cal im done


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Not my fault they bring some emotion into some GOAT posts
> 
> And I hope you're just messing with me, seems obsessive if not haha
> 
> OK Cal im done



Of course I am just messing around, it's not like I actually get bothered by the use of smiley's hahaha.

You need to watch this JYD/Butch Reed match off the Best of Mid South set if you haven't already seen it, it's too much fun.






And here is another goodie I watched this weekend that should be required viewing for EVERYONE. Meng vs Chris Benoit Slamboree Death Match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vm57_chris-benoit-vs-meng_sport


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Let's do that.

Recently found out there was another Brock/Angle match that happened in Japan in 2007 I think. After seeing it I know why no one mentions it.

In the mood for some older stuff. Any recommendations for Owen singles or Steiner tag matches?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Arm-Bar1004 said:


> Let's do that.
> 
> Recently found out there was another Brock/Angle match that happened in Japan in 2007 I think. After seeing it I know why no one mentions it.
> 
> In the mood for some older stuff. Any recommendations for Owen singles or Steiner tag matches?




Here is one of the greatest tag matches of all time, it has the Steiners vs Dr. Death and Terry Gordy.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxxlkc_steiners-vs-steve-williams-and-terry-gordy_sport


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

YES YES YES at JYD/Butch Reed from the Mid South set. 2nd best match on the whole comp imo. Exactly what you'd want in an old school hatred filled grudge match.

Good Steiners matches?

Steiners vs. those Japanese guys from Wrestlewar '92
Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki 3/21/91
Steiners vs. Fire & Ice - GAB 1996 (random as shit I know but it's fun)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans is back!!!!!! Can't remember if I repped you or not, so in case I didn't, just wanted to say that I totally agree with you about Taker/HHH WM27. Cinematic. 




Chismo said:


> Fuck what everyone else says, watch this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally checking this out. Rep coming in a second.




Choke2Death said:


> Pointing that out because I know somebody will post a fantasy list of a bunch of jobbers they would "rather" face Brock than Orton.


:lmao


Re: HHH/Lesnar in a Cage (sorry, I have yet to talk about this one, though apparently it's been discussed here a lot), I too hate when Lesnar looks like a bitch. All of Heyman's involvement at the end of the Punk match really detracted from that match for me. 

So I went in expecting to be annoyed by the HHH cage match, but I really didn't find it that annoying. Maybe it's because the way that Lesnar looked "weak" was totally plausible. He had a leg injury, and thus anyone can look weak due to that. He sold the hell out of it, which was cool to watch. Yeah, Heyman got involved, and I'd have to watch it again to be sure my perception is accurate, but how it came off to me was Heyman was just being annoying in general and doing anything to get involved, because he's just a troll and a loyalist. Simple as that. Maybe it's because of the leg injury, but it didn't come off as throwing shit in there that makes Lesnar look weak for no discernible reason. 

I think that some of it was because they seemed to be reveling in the cheating. "That's my manager!" 

I also think that he made H look weak enough, from what I remember, that it wasn't just like H dominating the whole thing, which is what I feared and suspected from some of the tone of the comments before I watched.

I think I'd go *** 3/4. Enjoyed it more than their SS match and still haven't seen their WM match yet. 

Is that worth a watch? I feel like that match must just be kind of "there", since I can't even remember any specific comments on it.


ETA: And just so I'm clear, I know Heyman's involvement in the Punk match helped advance the Punk/Heyman storyline, but I also feel that it was done to clearly protect Punk. I understand the reasoning behind it, because he's a full-timer, but it just came off as absurd and irritating to me. Mainly because it dominated so much of the closing moments.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Here is one of the greatest tag matches of all time, it has the Steiners vs Dr. Death and Terry Gordy.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxxlkc_steiners-vs-steve-williams-and-terry-gordy_sport


What year is that from? Nice match btw.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> I need some ratings on the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar trilogy!


I don't use star ratings anymore but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to rate them I would say:

SummerSlam - ***1/2
WrestleMania - ***1/2
Extreme Rules - ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay, this is fucking weird. I was thinking today that I haven't heard anything out of Corey in a while and BAM .

Brock/Angle in Japan isn't good at all. Definitely a bottom 10 BROCK match ever for sure. 

Brock's work in the HHH series is GOD MODE, with HHH matching the affair for the best match of the three at Summerslam :mark:.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I have a feeling Cena/Orton on Raw might actually be good. Better than their last two PPV matches anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm just worried that it's going to be 20 minutes too long.



King Cal said:


> I don't know who Mozza is.
> 
> FAIL.


He's the biggest Liverpool fan around.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Cena NoC also happens to have the second best control segment of 2012, behind arguably the greatest control segment in company history. But it's cool if you still like Cena/Orton. We all have matches that we like even if everyone here shits on them. Cal has Taker/Austin BL 02. I have Punk/Jericho PB. Cody somehow likes Chono/Muta at Starrcade 92. And Yeah somehow sees something redeemable about Led Luger in the 90s.


Muta is the MAN.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I could see WWE having Cena and Orton go an hour just because. :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Recreation of the 2007 Cena vs Michaels moment. They got three hours to kill. Yeah, this is totally happening now.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

JoeRulz mentions Jumbo/Kerry (totally one of the greatest ever) and only one person takes him up on it while everyone else goes into a tangent about smileys and Cesaro as a jobber. Y'all suck.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm just worried that it's going to be 20 minutes too long.


I just feel like they tend to go for the forced epic schtick when they wrestle on PPV but it might be less of that nature on TV. I hope it is anyways. If Orton can find it in himself to be as motivated and GOOD as he was against Bryan last week it could be solid. Now that I'm typing this I'm beginning to realize that this is much more of a hope than something I actually think will happen. Oh well.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Recreation of the 2007 Cena vs Michaels moment. They got three hours to kill. Yeah, this is totally happening now.


They'd need to go all Clockwork Orange and strap me to a chair to sit through 60 minutes of Cena/Orton in 2014.

Actually only way they could salvage it would be to put some alternative options on the APP for people to watch instead. Such as Cesaro swinging Dorada around the backstage area for 30 minutes, or Titus O'Neill barking, or some wet paint drying whilst Vickie Guerrero narrates the entire process.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

First of all, thanks to everyone with suggestions last night, I'm going to make my way through the majority today/tonight.

WOOLCOCK, last night before I fell asleep I managed to slam through the Martel/Rose match and whilst there's aspects of it that I enjoyed (Rose's confidence turned arrogance, Martel's babyface performance, the way the match ended) , on the whole I wasn't that big of a fan of the match but that MIGHT be due to me not taking to the style as much as say yourself or your friend that you mentioned. Yeah I could also be chatting out of my rear end because it's the only Portland match I've ever seen (I saw another 2/3 falls between the two which I'm going to watch later) so saying it's the style may be unfair at the minute. I'll seek out the other 2/3 falls between the two after I've watched a few more of the suggestions given to me. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Edit: Rose is definitely someone I'd like to see a bit more of though, at some point.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw 2000 ppv


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Flux said:


> First of all, thanks to everyone with suggestions last night, I'm going to make my way through the majority today/tonight.
> 
> WOOLCOCK, last night before I fell asleep I managed to slam through the Martel/Rose match and whilst there's aspects of it that I enjoyed (Rose's confidence turned arrogance, Martel's babyface performance, the way the match ended) , on the whole I wasn't that big of a fan of the match but that MIGHT be due to me not taking to the style as much as say yourself or your friend that you mentioned. Yeah I could also be chatting out of my rear end because it's the only Portland match I've ever seen (I saw another 2/3 falls between the two which I'm going to watch later) so saying it's the style may be unfair at the minute. I'll seek out the other 2/3 falls between the two after I've watched a few more of the suggestions given to me. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
> 
> Edit: Rose is definitely someone I'd like to see a bit more of though, at some point.


Tbh having re-read the review, I think that match was a culmination of a feud and therefore it might not have been the best match to watch on its own, having no context for the earlier matches. That isn't to say you might just not take to the Portland style, which is fine since everyone is going to have different perceptions and reactions to stylistic differences, and Portland's exclusive 2/3 falls format (even in tags) certainly distinguishes it from your AWA, Mid South, WCCW, Memphis & JCP's of that era.

Everything I read about Rose though in addition to the bits I've seen makes me think he might be one of the most overlooked talents. He was integral to Portland, much the same as Lawler was to Memphis. He just oozes the nuance of performance and has a great attention to detail for minor sequences which he can use to mean something more, on top of bumping and selling perfectly to draw fans into the match, whilst working a great long term structure to engross the fans.

I'd say watch Flair/Wahoo when you get chance though, because after the Steamboat, Funk and Windham matches I'm not sure if Flair has a better match. It is that great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> He's the biggest Liverpool fan around.


Is that an inside joke? Because I could swear that he's an Everton fan.



PGSucks said:


> I could see WWE having Cena and Orton go an hour just because. :vince


I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL YOU MOTHERFUCKERS ACCEPT THIS RIVALRY AS THE GREATEST OF THIS ERA, DAMMIT! TWO IRONMAN MATCHES! :vince3

I too am looking forward to it even if it's the least exciting options out of Orton's opponents in this gauntlet aside from maybe Christian. Another match that started off GREAT but has become so formulaic and repetitive because of how overdone it is. At least Cena/Orton have had as many gimmick matches as regular ones which has resulted in quite a bit of variety throughout the bunch and I may be in mark mode but I've enjoyed the majority of them.

It surprises me that until the past few years, there were quite a few people who have been around for years and Orton had never worked with them beyond a few short TV matches here and there. (Kane, Christian, Big Show, Punk just to name a few)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Is that an inside joke? Because I could swear that he's an Everton fan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I honestly think Orton/Christian on Smackdown got hurt by time constraints and a commercial break. If they just gave them 15 minutes uninterrupted to go out there and tear it down, I think we would have seen a much better match. Christians style is to build a slow match that lays a foundation and then culminates in a fury of counters, near falls, and risk taking to try and get the pin attempt. It's a very successful formula, but cutting the time down and adding a break to the action just kills the flow of a good Christian match, atleast IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There was no commercials for the one I watched. The commentary went silent for about a minute and Orton exit the ring to talk some trash about the crowd and their city.

The thing with their matches is that they are formulaic at this point and don't really offer much new. It worked in 2011 and I loved every match they had then but now I don't feel enthusiastic about it anymore because they overdid it. But sure, given more time, they'd probably be able to have better matches. See Bryan/Orton for an example.

And since we're here, I might as well recommend you the 2005 match with Orton and Christian. Not as good as their best matches in 2011 but still a hell of a match where you get Orton in his prime and there's not many things better than that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As Woolcock keeps pimping this, thought id upload it for everyone 

*Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan vs. Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (6/8/84)* Mid South.

x1bo0mj


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ everyone needs to watch that match btw. So incredible:



> *Rock 'N Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (6/8/84)*
> 
> To the people who criticise tag team wrestling, shame on you and I hereby recommend you watch this match and kindly swallom humble pie and proceed to worship southern tag formula wrestling. This is a bloody incredible 6 man tag with one of the loudest crowds I can ever recall hearing, with an abundance of wonderful tidbits that you only get in a STF tag. Condrey and Eaton are out of this world spectacular as the Midnight Express, whether they're running the famed comedy spots where Morton proceeds to make both of them his bitch or when they're in control and resorting to every underhanded tactic to bloody and isolate Morton, its just outstanding. Morton and Duggan are both superb here as well as the babyfaces who each receive a beating and both sell their asses off in the process.
> 
> ...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> They'd need to go all Clockwork Orange and strap me to a chair to sit through 60 minutes of Cena/Orton in 2014.
> 
> Actually only way they could salvage it would be to put some alternative options on the APP for people to watch instead. Such as Cesaro swinging Dorada around the backstage area for 30 minutes, or Titus O'Neill barking, or some wet paint trying whilst Vickie Guerrero narrates the entire process.


It's all a brainwashing process as it is. We'll be forced to watch w/o realizing a fast forward button lies on the very remote we all have. (b/c who watches this stuff "live" anymore?)

And yes. That six man tag mentioned is excellent. Look at the talent, people.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Quick little review from a match I watched last night. Need to get back in the groove of doing these, first I've done since Hell in a Cell 2013 I believe:

*Non-Title Match w/ Mick Foley as Special Enforcer
*WWE Champion CM Punk vs. John Cena
_RAW on Veteran's Day 11/12/2012

_This match starts off extremely similar to their match a few months later (the RAW classic on 2/25) with Punk working over the head and neck for several minutes, and with the commercial break coming at a shitty time where you probably miss some good workover segments. Punk's able to to keep the story alive throughout the match when Cena tries to gain the upperhand and reverses him into neckbreakers. I swear everytime these two face each other Punk always has a clever way to reverse the five knuckle shuffle and he does it like 3 times in this one until Cena just drops a Road Warrior Hawk-like fist drop, which was pretty nifty. Down the stretch Punk started throwing sequences at Cena that he wasn't used to, which you could see but how oddly he reacted. Sloppy looking Koji Clutch was locked in that everyone called an Anaconda Vice and no one in the crowd knew how to react to. Pretty hot finishing stretch involving the STFU. Finish itself was kinda weak as Ryback came out to the ring and scared Punk into getting caught in an FU and pinned by Cena. Cena's reaction was insane though as he acts like he just won the lottery.  Finish is the only weak part of the match. Good TV main event and one of several good matches in their series. **** 1/4

*Someone was talking about their match from NOC 2012 the other day, and I'm probably the only person who isn't a huge fan of it. I've only seen it once but I became bored with all of Punk's stalling and control segment (which is a HUGE rarity) and I didn't buy into the finisher-fest it turned into. Became a bit of overkill but it had its good moments. I'd rate it the same as the match above, but due to length I'd probably watch a few of their TV matches above it (one from October/November of '09 as well).


----------



## Cally033 (Aug 7, 2012)

Just watching Tripple H doc really over rated but saying that never liked him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> There was no commercials for the one I watched. The commentary went silent for about a minute and Orton exit the ring to talk some trash about the crowd and their city.


That happened on the SD torrent I downloaded too. Shit was hilarious :lol rton2

RAW is looking like shit at the moment, but since there's no NFL and I don't really have too much homework, I'll be watching and trolling in the discussion thread. T-minus 4 hours until I'm SPORTS ENTERTAINED :vince


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No RAW for me tonight, got 2 papers and a huge exam tomorrow


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol I marked for the clockwork orange reference, well done 

I could actually totally see them going the Michaels/Cena raw 07 route in unintentionally iron man match. That would be horrid if true, not like they have anything else to do tbh

If they do go thr usually 20 mins, I have a feeling it will be better than their ppv, for the simple fact they can tone do the OMGZ epic encounter and try to have a simple match with real work done


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> GUYS! I haven't been on here in months, how's everyone been doing? I've been hating the state of the WWE ever since Survivor Series basically and Call of Duty Ghosts has been overtaking my night life (like Infiniti Ward always does) so I've been following from a far. Have I missed anything _that _special other than Bryan vs. Wyatt from the Rumble? I have a friend who is always so optimistic about the company and I refuse to believe half the things he says. haha


Yeah, there were a few good matches, like Bryan/Wyatt at Rumble and Orton/Bryan from last week's Raw, but the overall direction of the company as been disappointing. When it seemed obvious that Bryan winning the Rumble would have been perfect booking, they got Batista to win instead, and fans have booed him since. And some reports are suggesting that management don't even plan on changing their plans, in terms of an Orton/Batista WWEWHC match at 'Mania. Bryan better be inserted into the WWEWHC match, or into some other high profile match. Also, Bryan may just be replacing Punk in a match with HHH, which would be pretty lazy booking, IMO. Plus, Bryan/HHH would be significantly more boring a match than Bryan/Lesnar or Bryan/Taker, in my opinion. 

Basically, it will be interesting to see what they do at Elimination Chamber, as that will shape the card of WM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Cena from NOC 2012 is absurdly great. Completely different in comparison to the rest of their work and a true definitive highlight produced from the two. I was lukewarm walking into another match w/them b/c I thought they had used up all they could up to that point. Boy, I was wrong. Again even more so when their 2013 RAW match showed up.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Punker vs Cena from NOC 2012 is absurdly great. Completely different in comparison to the rest of their work and a true definitive highlight produced from the two. I was lukewarm walking into another match w/them b/c I thought they had used up all they could up to that point. Boy, I was wrong. Again even more so when their 2013 RAW match showed up.


Yeah, it was a good match. Personally, I liked all of their matches, perhaps with Cena/Punk at SummerSlam or Cena/Punk at Raw 1000 being the least memorable of their matches. 

What is your opinion of Cena/Punk @ MITB '11?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The epic classic most hold it to be. Some distant "sloppiness" was grasping at straws in trying to use it as a way to bring the match down a tad from a detractor or two. The few un-pretty sequences weren't even close to being bad. Captured the distinct grit the entire bout shared. My two cents on that aspect. Naturally, this means I adore the piece. Couldn't have turned out to be any better.

Their weakest match officially was their two minute romp in late 2009, but that shouldn't necessarily count when compared to all the other matches that actually got to be something. For all the ones that "mattered" and/or got sufficient time to be something, I'd say the RAW 100th match is the lowest on the pole. Still good at worst, but only good at best too. Whereas the large percentage of the majority all hit really good - great territory.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Cena is stellar real sleepper in that 2012 year with the likes of cena/brock ; hhh/taker ; punk/bryan; 6 man tlc. I loved it and I liked how its was different than their other contest. TBH I'm very high on all their major matches


Cena/Punk is top 10-20 in company history and tied for my favorite match of all time

I loved noc 12 dearly and its only their 3rd best match together


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

w/you putting MITB 2011 & the RAW 2013 match ahead of it, yet?

Punk vs Cena is a top ten match for me in 2012. May or may not be top three even. There's effective competition w/stuff the likes of Danielson vs Sheamus 2/3 Falls, Punker vs Danielson MITB, Sheamus/Big Show HIAC, & the six man TLC match. For a year that got grief, it has it's share of excellent bouts. On and off PPV.

#1 is Brock vs Cena, as expected, talked about 24/7 etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> w/you putting MITB 2011 & the RAW 2013 match ahead of it, yet?
> 
> Punk vs Cena is a top ten match for me in 2012. May or may not be top three even. There's effective competition w/stuff the likes of Danielson vs Sheamus 2/3 Falls, Punker vs Danielson MITB, Sheamus/Big Show HIAC, & the six man TLC match. For a year that got grief, it has it's share of excellent bouts. On and off PPV.
> 
> #1 is Brock vs Cena, as expected, talked about 24/7 etc.




One of these days you'll have to explain to me why you like the MitB match more than OTL in the Punk/Danielson feud, I like them both obviously but I just think OTL was on a completely higher level than MitB. 

What shall I watch now, hermmmm, Taker/Vader at the Royal Rumble? I think yes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> What shall I watch now, hermmmm, T


As you have been in a tag mood:

As Woolcock keeps pimping this, thought id upload it for everyone 

*Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan vs. Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (6/8/84)* Mid South.

x1bo0mj


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yep (Y) mitb and raw 13 over the noc with summerslam right behind


lol yes it is discussed 24/7

ehh yea i think I'm with you tbh, off the top of my head I'd only put brock/cena, maybe fella/bryan,punk/bryan and another match I'm forgetting at the moment over it, top 3-5 indeed. IIRC you and me are the only ones high on punk/bryan MITB for some reason


Edit: May very well be 2-3


----------



## JoseG16 (Feb 8, 2014)

*Anybody know any good fatal four way matches*

Any good prefferably from 1997-2007


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: Anybody know any good fatal four way matches*

Cena/HBK/Orton/Edge from Backlash 2007 was pretty great.


----------



## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

*Re: Anybody know any good fatal four way matches*

Wrestlemania 2000


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> One of these days you'll have to explain to me why you like the MitB match more than OTL in the Punk/Danielson feud, I like them both obviously but I just think OTL was on a completely higher level than MitB.
> 
> What shall I watch now, hermmmm, Taker/Vader at the Royal Rumble? I think yes.


Sounds like a plan. And a decent excuse to watch both matches again for the fun of it. My interest takes dips during the OTL match, whereas at MITB I'm enthralled by the entire battle. Love what they produced that night. So, so much.



SKINS said:


> yep (Y) mitb and raw 13 over the noc with summerslam right behind
> 
> 
> lol yes it is discussed 24/7
> ...


I know there's some others lingering around from TV that I could end up making my top list. Something like Sheamus vs Tensai for example. Or Sheamus vs a lot of folk. Speaking of, I re-watched Sheamus vs Ryback from Smackdown again. OHHHHHHHHHH shit is it still great. Legit top quality on the year. Only behind the other prizes talked about like Danielson vs Wyatt, Shield vs Danielson, Sheamus, Mysterio, & Danielson vs Orton.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Backlash 2008's main event was solid!

- Vic


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch Danielson/London, Flair/everybody, Jannetty/Doink, Mysterio/Psychosis, Malenko/Eddie (*kinda hated here*, but I like it), and Luger/Flair.


:cool2S'what? Said who? Lemme at 'em! Lemme at 'em!!:avit:

I thought it was wonderful. Obviously with both signed to WCW, and this being their farewell match, there's some emotion at play but it's really not the star of the show for me. First, it's about Eddie making strides in the ring. He was never on Malenko's or Benoit's level from a technical standpoint (and if you watch this match on his DVD, you'll hear him on commentary admit this). Nevertheless, you see him working new things, transitions, and mat techniques as he's learning. The pace for the first fall is awesome - so very "cruiser" inspired, incorporating lucha and European techniques seamlessly. Malenko - who is somewhat of an acquired taste - has a lot of subtle swag: How he flicks his arm across his body after coming out ahead in a sequence, that he's always up on his toes or on one foot to showcase the leverage applied, his focus. For most fans, I think if you thought of him as a Japanese wrestler, his character makes a lot more sense. Everything is subdued, kept below the surface. I love how he bridges to not let Eddie pin his shoulders on the Crucifix, AND A PROPERLY SOLD FUCKING CROSS ARM BREAKER! Damn, it's amazing how many really good wrestlers cannot pull that spot off correctly. Would've liked to see Dean more as a heel, especially given that he hardly ever won an entire crowd over with his style. There are, and will forever be, detractors, and I just wish Dean had the wherewithal to run with that. A sort of "Last of a Dying Breed" or "I'm a wrestler, you're a circus performer"-type feel would've elevated his game, IMO. But Dean's about respect and credibility, so I understand that he didn't - just wishful thinking on my part. I was and still am a big fan of his (not in my top 10 or anything, but always appreciated his take on it). There's a great lucha stretch near the end of the first fall that ends in a botch, but well saved by Eddie. Dean's got a bunch of little things he does so well if you take the time to look at it. I've always found mat wrestling to be quite beautiful, aesthetically, and Dean is superb at it. The first fall is wonderful, quick pin, and Eddie starts to get more serious with the ***** Suplex. The 2nd fall is a little quick, and though I (and the crowd) enjoyed the Alabama Slam out of the turnbuckle and the tight cinch of the Texas Cloverleaf, it was a little rushed for me. 

The final fall is amazing. Every big spot is soo crispy. Eddie's Tornado DDT, Brainbusters from both, and a glorious frogsplash from 2/3 across the ring - all perfect. Dean's "pizza toss" reversal out of the 2nd Tornado DDT was class - Eddie takes a perfect bump with great rotation. Dean's Tiger Bomb is tops - correct landing, great impact - the perfect mix of power and technical execution. What else can be said about the Malenko Special (Gorilla Press to Gut Buster, to you)? It's done so perfectly. I remember marking the fuck out the first time I saw it. It's such a big move, and something you rarely see. The double pin was a perfect finish for those two, it felt like the perfect ending.

I'm at ****1/2 for it - it feels like the spirit of ROH in there - two guys who respect one another just going at it. They shake at the beginning and end, then hug, and you really feel of the admiration they feel for each other. Probably my favorite 2/3 falls match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea sheamus/ryback was excellent, I rewatched smackdown as well, just a fun fun rides, good showing from the fella and the big guy. Right behind orton/bryan (MOTY so far) and the 6 man from sd



I remember re watching Bryan/Punk otl a few months ago and loving it, so it may be a flip of the coin


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I don't remember Benoit/Jericho 2/3 falls being much special at all. They get about twelve minutes IIRC and as a result I found it severely handicapped them in pacing the match logically and building the falls into an engrossing narrative. It felt very by the numbers and I feel they were robbed from having the time to construct a longer and potentially better match. Definitely don't think it's anywhere close to the other 2/3 falls matches mentioned so far.


Also, the 2nd fall is atrocious. It's just Benoit taking him from tb post to tb post, and haphazardly throwing Jericho into them. No real impact, rhyme, or reason. Jericho, it seems to me, had far too much respect for Benoit and just didn't fight back enough. He bumps, gets stomped, picked back up, bumps again, back to stomps, all without any sort of trying to fight back. Makes for a very drab control sequence. Also didn't like the Shoulder Breaker by Benoit - it's to the wrong shoulder! Something small, but it just makes me think "if you're not going to do it to the shoulder you apply pressure to on the Crossface, why didn't you just Tombstone him?"

Also, it's easy to forget (until you watch a match like this) that Jericho is *not* on the same level in the ring as guys like Eddie, Benoit, and a couple others from his generation. And that's true no matter how far back you go. Great well-rounded talent, but not great _in the ring_, IMO.

Once you take in that this is a PPV match, with a special stipulation, and is given 15 minutes, the match should've been better. *** for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> As you have been in a tag mood:
> 
> As Woolcock keeps pimping this, thought id upload it for everyone
> 
> ...




Even better than rewatching Vader/Taker, this looks spectacular.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Ernie Ladd the first African American heel, atleast in the U.S? I can never remember there being one before him. I loved that video WWE made for him, but they didn't mention anything about his status as bad guy for the majority of his career.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is WM 2000 worth watching? I own the event on DVD but never have gotten around to watching it


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Not a lot of memorable stuff besides the tag team match, imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Is WM 2000 worth watching? I own the event on DVD but never have gotten around to watching it


The main event isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, I honestly enjoy it, I think I gave it ***1/2 on last watch. The Benoit/Jericho/Angle Triple Threat is alright too.

The MOTN is easily the Triangle Ladder match, I gave it **** and really really dug it on last watch. It's a precursor to the famed TLC match at Summerslam.

Outside of those matches, nothing else stands out to me. I think this was the mania that featured only 1, maybe none actually, singles matches.

It's worth a watch I guess if you have nothing better to do. WWE fucked that event up, they should have just gone with Rocky/Trips in the Main Event and had Jericho and Benoit in a straight singles contest.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit/Angle/Jericho is one of those matches that people pretend to like in order to look smart.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Like who? I'm a mark for all three and I *hate* that match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I read Jerichos book and he shits on his match at that show for like an entire chapter, eh, might as well try it eventually 

I'll check out the show this weekend (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Benoit/Angle/Jericho is one of those matches that people pretend to like in order to look smart.



I'm not trying to "look smart", I said it was alright, as it not something I'd skip but not something I would intentionally seek out to watch again. I almost want to dig that match out to see what you think is so awful about it, I haven't watched it since I watched the whole event a few years ago.


Edit- I dug it out, I'm about halfway through, and there is no way in hell this match deserves a "NO" on the Cal scale. The crowd being deader than dead definitely hurts it, as done the complete lack of any real structure, but so far I stand by my assessment that it's alright. I'll give it some stars when I've finished. Jericho seems like he's doing most of the work at this point, and he took one hellacious face first bump from the top turnbuckle to the announce table

Edit again- Smitty, I'm obsessive about reading every wrestling book that comes out, and I will be the first to tell you, wrestlers aren't always the best judges of their own matches. Bret Hart has said at different times his best match was either SS92' vs Davey Boy or WM 12 vs Shawn, so it's not like they are always right when judging themselves. Jericho was right to shit on this match because it's Wrestle Fucking Mania and Benoit, Angle, and Jericho can all cut it in the ring so they should have put on a classic. This would have been okay as a Smackdown main event.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Punker vs Cena from NOC 2012 is absurdly great. Completely different in comparison to the rest of their work and a true definitive highlight produced from the two. I was lukewarm walking into another match w/them b/c I thought they had used up all they could up to that point. Boy, I was wrong. Again even more so when their 2013 RAW match showed up.


That was my favorite of their match series, the runner up being the Raw match(only due to those damn commercial breaks messing up the flow).

NOC: **** 3/4
Raw 2013: **** 1/2
MITB: ****
Raw during Surv. Series Build: ***


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> That was my favorite of their match series, the runner up being the Raw match(only due to those damn commercial breaks messing up the flow).
> 
> NOC: **** 3/4
> Raw 2013: **** 1/2
> ...



Wow, you're the first person I've seen say that MitB wasn't one of Cena and Punks top 2 matches, why do you prefer Raw and NoC to it? And why isn't it in the ****1/2+ range like I've seen just about everyone give it? Just curious I like hearing differing viewpoints.

For the record I gave their matches:

MitB: *****
Raw 2013 ****1/2
NoC: ****1/4
Raw 1000: ***


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Must be about that time for the MITB match to drop in ratings just because.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ lol Gregory
, no punk/cena is a certified ***** , will never been another


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Punk/Cena is still at the full 5 as of three weeks ago


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Wow, you're the first person I've seen say that MitB wasn't one of Cena and Punks top 2 matches, why do you prefer Raw and NoC to it? And why isn't it in the ****1/2+ range like I've seen just about everyone give it? Just curious I like hearing differing viewpoints.
> 
> For the record I gave their makes:
> 
> ...


It isn't bad, it's probably bias going into it, as a guy I knew said it was better than WM 20's Triple Threat(one of my most cherished wrestling memories, seeing two of my favorites in one match). So of course, I watched the weekend after, and while I liked it, my nostalgia influenced my expectations. I was planning on watching this weekend so maybe three years will make a difference.

Totally forgot about Raw 1000. I think I remeber it being good, but nothing for me to go "Holy crap, I remember!" I just remember the Punk heel turn afterwards, so I'll watch again to make a far judgement.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Must be about that time for the MITB match to drop in ratings just because.




:lmao he doesn't post in here much so I wanted to give him the benefit of doubt and see if he had some good reasoning. But yeah, when you add in the build, what that match meant, the crowd, the significance of all the counters, I find it difficult to not award that match at the VERY LEAST ****1/2, personally I can only see perfection in it. Although I have to say, Lesnar/Punk has supplanted MitB as my favorite Punk match ever.

Edit-ryback mark, I'd give that match another watch, it's a special, special, affair,

Edit2: Just finished Angle/Jericho/Benoit from WM 2000. I stand by my statement fully that that match is worth watching if you are gonna watch WM 2000, definitely don't "NO" it. The crowd absolutely sucks, and there really isn't too much point to a lot of what they are doing, but they get credit for keeping all 3 guys active in the ring together 85% of the time are there are some cool looking spots, and Jericho has a sweet exchange of waist lock counters with Angle towards the end. I think **3/4 is fair. Jericho out worked everyone in that match IMO.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd probably put Brock/Punk above it as well, if we're only talking about the match itself and not factoring in the build/crowd atmosphere/storyline/etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take Punk vs Brock by a hair over the MITB match too. Can't shake the feeling that match gives me. Intense is a deliberate understatement.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> :lmao he doesn't post in here much so I wanted to give him the benefit of doubt and see if he had some good reasoning. But yeah, when you add in the build, what that match meant, the crowd, the significance of all the counters, I find it difficult to not award that match at the VERY LEAST ****1/2, personally I can only see perfection in it. Although I have to say, *Lesnar/Punk has supplanted MitB as my favorite Punk match ever*,


:mark: *****, cannot get over how much I love that match. The only thing that irked me was Heyman's interference was a bit too reoccurring, but still was the match of the night. Speaking of that, SummerSlam was awesome, Chrstian v. Del Rio was *** 3/4 (could be **** with more time and build), Cena v. Bryan was **** 3/4 or *****(cannot choose decisively), and of course Lesnar and Punk put up a clinic.

For some reason I thought we weren't supposed to put the build up into consideration, in that case MITB is *****. I don't really make build negative unless it's batshit stupid or random as rolling a die with your left foot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'd probably put Brock/Punk above it as well, if we're only talking about the match itself and not factoring in the build/crowd atmosphere/storyline/etc.



Oh absolutely, if we include the build, the electricity, and the significance to it then yeah MitB would be tops and have to be considered a top 10 WWE match ever. But if we are strictly going by what happens from bell to bell, then I'll take Lesnar/Punk, a lot of that is because Lesnar is just such a vicious heel and Punk/Cena turned into a face/face contest, which isn't something I prefer seeing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian vs Del Rio from SummerSlam blew away Danielson vs Cena. And the latter was pretty excellent in it's own right. Use the scale to emphasize how much Christian vs Del Rio rocks my world.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> Also, it's easy to forget (until you watch a match like this) that Jericho is *not* on the same level in the ring as guys like Eddie, Benoit, and a couple others from his generation. And that's true no matter how far back you go. Great well-rounded talent, but not great _in the ring_, IMO.
> 
> Once you take in that this is a PPV match, with a special stipulation, and is given 15 minutes, the match should've been better. *** for me.


Tbh I wouldn't say it's hard to forget personally, but I see your point since so many will instinctively call Jericho a great worker. He's truthfully never really excelled for me bar certain spells, and despite his best matches being of a high standard...I can't point to one where he's the better man in it. Fallbrawl '97 is a total Eddie masterclass imo in terms of a heel performance and adding in all these naunces to make simple holds and transitions mean more, on top of a great control segment. The HHH LMS is a match where I'd call HHH's performance very good-great, which is strong praise from me as I'm a longstanding detractor of his. I truthfully don't find the HBK '08 series to be all that strong, bar the GAB match off memory. I found the street fight really poor with Michaels whiffing on punches and just not having the offence to work an effective brawl, and Jericho's restholds were pretty jarring for a grudge match. Really, both men typified to me that they can work a 'WWE brawl', but when you've watched Memphis and Mid South brawls with more urgency and hatred, it becomes easy to distinguish an authentic brawl from a propfest. The ladder match truthfully does little for me, with a number of irritating choregraphed spots which also make little sense but look good (lionsault on the ladder, elbow drop on the ladder etc).

I'm struggling to think of Jericho's other best matches really. I found Mysterio better typically in their '09 matches, he was pretty horrendous during 2003-2005 bar the Wrestlemania 19 match and the Christian Wrestlemania 20 match. The HBK Wrestlemania 19 match is one of his better performances, but I find HBK's comeback and blowoff of the backwork to be too distracting and negligent on his part, since it renders the entire story and narrative of Jericho dissecting HBK's biggest weakness irrelevant when he refuses to sell it post comeback.

The Rock No Mercy '01 match is again something I'd point to as an impressive Rock performance in terms of leading the match as 'the ace' and feeding Jericho enough to look credible, but carrying himself like the superior talent to give that sense of doubt as to whether Jericho is good enough, though I wouldn't call Jericho bad or anything, he's just upstaged again.

Really, Jericho is a mediocre face worker imo at least in terms of what I look for in a good face worker. Bryan, Bourne, Masters, Christian, Mysterio, Cena, Punk, Goldust, Taker, Tajiri, Eddie, Benoit, Regal, Matt Hardy etc are all easily better face workers post '00 in WWE to me than him, and if I put more thought into it I could probably name far more. As a heel, I don't find him again that engaging and find a lot of his control segments, especially '08 onwards can drag and fail to build a gripping narrative, with most falling into that element of 'mechanically good, but lacking in creativity', and again the likes of Finlay for example annihilate him imo in that aspect. Honestly, I wouldn't call him a bad worker, but at this point I'm not sure there was a stretch of his career where he was consistently good as a worker, at least past a few months. As a character in later WCW he was gold, but how often did that transfer to the ring? In WWE, his debut spell is rough, his '00-01 work better but hardly amazing, his '02-05 ranges from good to terrible, and post '08 I've again found him very inconsistent, and he was flat out bad imo from '10 onwards with him really struggling to keep up with the likes of Bourne in their PPV series, and the Edge series being the epitome of two flat workers struggling to create something interesting.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Brock/Punk over Austin/Angle by a hair as the best summerslam match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ffunny enough, I was just having this conversation with someone about Punk/brock and the star rating system and something similar about it being perfect but heyman roles at the end ticked off people, and it being a perfect example of a ****3/4 vs. ***** if you want to get into the star rating hubba buba, whatvs

Yea Punk/brock is perfection IMO, have no clue which is better between mitb and it, I may actually side with Mitb tbh

Yea bryan/cena is excellent and near perfection it self as well as ADR/christian


Edit: I think ppl underrated the actually match when talking punk/cena talk away the build and crowd and its still amazing


Edit AGAIN : it was Sono I was talking to about it


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Brock/Punk over Austin/Angle by a hair as the best summerslam match.




Both these are in my top 5 SS matches IMO 

1. Austin vs Angle 01
2. Brock vs Angle 03
3. Punk vs Brock 13
4. HHH vs HBK 02 (easily their best)
5. Undertaker Vs Edge HIAC 08


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WOOLCOCK, what do you think of Jericho's performance in the Goldberg match at Bad Blood and the match overall?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Also, without wishing to descend into setting off pages of LISTS ad naueseum, if people want a quick view of the best WWE matches per year recently, I'd probably go:

Cena/Lesnar > Punk/Cena MITB > Punk/Bryan OTL. I remember preferring Cena/Bryan over Lesnar/Punk, though I certainly didn't think low of the latter or anything like that. I'd probably have the TLC six man w/ Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback ahead of that though, unless a rewatch of all three altered my opinion.

I honestly think Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 is probably a better match for me though than Lesnar/Punk, Bryan/Cena & Shield's debut. Again, no slight on those three matches, but more indicative of how highly I rate Christian/Swagger. Cena/Mysterio on Raw in '11 shouldn't be overlooked either, and Sheamus/Show HIAC would easily make a top ten of '09-13 imo.

As for Punk/Cena NOC, I love the first 2/3rds of the match, though I did have a few quibbles with the finishing stretch. The body of the match is a tremendous callback to MITB, with Punk now playing the champion in Cena's hometown, and wrestling the match of his life to control Cena and shutdown all his openings. The way Punk constantly has a counter for everything Cena throws at him is a great narrative, and again a nice role-reversal from MITB where Cena controls the middle and outclasses Punk. The fact Cena eventually has to resort to the dive to the floor to catch Punk unaware just makes me appreciate the initial story so much more. I did find some of the counters in the closing stretch to be a bit too sudden and not as well layed out as MITB, particularly one FU where IIRC Cena literally jumps up and hits an effortless FU to Punk for a nearfall. That and the poorly executed finish (though I admire the idea in theory) ensure the ending didn't sustain the greatness of the first 2/3rds, but I'd still call it a very good-great match. Had they mapped out the finishing stretch to replicate MITB, I think it would have come closer to overtaking the MITB encounter as their best.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd actually take BROCK/Cena and BROCK/Punk over Punk/Cena but they all are great matches and arguably the MOTY for each of those respective years. Get em Punk! Punk/Bryan OTL is amazing too. I never fell in love with Punk/Cena from SummerSlam.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brock/Cena was good, but the Super Cena antics really pissed me off. I think the blood made the match more likable.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> WOOLCOCK, what do you think of Jericho's performance in the Goldberg match at Bad Blood and the match overall?


I will not lie to you, I cannot recall that match for toffee. I'm not sure Goldberg/Jericho in '03 interests me enough to rewatch it to gain a fresh perspective however.

Also, forgot to mention the stellar Goldust/Booker vs Christian/Jericho tags in the fall of '02. A great series which for me eclipses the famed Benoit/Angle vs Mysterio/Edge series, as the former plays to the wonderful STF tag system, whereas the latter is more an infusion of a workrate/sprint like tag stretched over twenty minutes. Again though, Goldust is the standout performer in that series for me over Jericho, although I will contend both Christian and Jericho had more than their share of good work in that feud.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Also, without wishing to descend into setting off pages of LISTS ad naueseum, if people want a quick view of the best WWE matches per year recently, I'd probably go:
> 
> Cena/Lesnar > Punk/Cena MITB > Punk/Bryan OTL. I remember preferring Cena/Bryan over Lesnar/Punk, though I certainly didn't think low of the latter or anything like that. I'd probably have the TLC six man w/ Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback ahead of that though, unless a rewatch of all three altered my opinion.
> 
> ...


Come on brother you know what this thread about, you need to crack out those to stay in here 

Nah I think Cena/Mysterio raw 11 ( Wait how did we start talking about this one ?:lol) is one of the most overlooked matches of the last decade, if it was at a big time ppv instead of a raw it probably would been MOTY or runner up to cena/punk

I actually on the first couple of watches thought Cena/bryan was much better than punk/lesnar irrc so thats not irrational thinking at all


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Woolcock- great post. I think Jericho is a very very good all around talent, but you're right, he has never quite reached that GREAT level as far as in ring work goes.

If I were listing the best matches in SS history it would be:

1. Angle/Austin 2001 (a top 5 match in WWE history IMO)
2. Brock/Punk 2013
3. Brock/Angle 2003
4. TLC I 2000
5. Angle/Rey 2002
6. Brock/Rock 2002
7. Bret/Owen 1994
8. Cena/Danielson 2013
9. Rude/Warrior 1990
10. Goldust and Booker T/Un-Americans 2002 (unpopular opinion but I ADORE this match)


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Gimme some ratings on The HBK/Y2J trilogy from 2008 folks!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Brock/Cena was good, but the Super Cena antics really pissed me off. I think the blood made the match more likable.


Eh, I'll never consider that 'Super Cena' tbh. Or if it is to be defined as such, it's the standard for which his comebacks should be laid out, minus the sudden finish.

Cena doesn't get to do much in the match, as Lesnar takes about 90% of the offence and to the naked eye Cena does bugger all but bump. For me though, when you pay close attention and understand the nuance and understated aspects of ringwork, Cena is exemplary in that match. He bumps and sells frantically for all of Lesnar's offence, which is easy to differentiate between the laboured bumping by HHH in the far flatter and tame Lesnar series, and Cena's timing on each brief comeback spot is something to marvel at. The build and execution of the Backlund deadlift powerspot is sensational, and complimented by Lesnar's wonderful facial expression of shock and fear at being stunned by Cena. 

The finish will always divide some, but I adore it as a simple 'last chance saloon' for Cena, who catches the reckless and cocky Lesnar with his only chance at victory, and capitalises with his last ounce of strength to win. I wouldn't have booked Lesnar to lose his first match back, but if they booked that match as Lesnar's departure after his contract was to end, I would have no complaints with the layout and actual finish.

It also doesn't negate the incredible violence and brutality that encapsulates Lesnar's performance, with the match feeling very shoot style orientated, only with a WWE Main Event style structure. Lesnar is terrifying and brutal, Cena's babyface performance is tremendous and works perfectly to get over Lesnar's aura and power, whilst rallying the typically hateful Chicago crowd behind him. It's the essence of a simple laid out match with a gripping narrative working eloquently.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone else get a sense of Cena half assery in the Bryan match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I continue to believe Brock in that match was the most distilled, pure heel we have seen in WWE in recent memory, maybe all time. He was TERRIFYING, and the way he paced himself, taking his time just picking Cena apart, and the look of satisfaction he'd have on his face after each comeback was stalled and beaten into submission, man I wish we could see stuff like that more often.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Anyone else get a sense of Cena half assery in the Bryan match?


His left /right tricep being completely fucked might be a reason ? Or not


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

SKINS said:


> His left /right tricep being completely fucked might be a reason ? Or not


Ah yes, his injury. Forgot about that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Gimme some ratings on The HBK/Y2J trilogy from 2008 folks!


Love that series of matches. If I gave star ratings, everyone here would cut off my head for overrating the hell out of it. Ah, who cares. Here we go.



Spoiler: GOATFEUD



Judgment Day: *****1/2*
Great American Bash: *****1/4*
Unforgiven: *****1/4*
No Mercy: *****1/2*
RAW LMS: ****1/2*



Cactus I wasn't referring to you regarding the WM 2000 IC/EU match comment. I actually typed it all out before I saw your post. However, outside of the confines of this thread, folks refer to it as a classic or a near-classic at the very least. I guess the so-called "technical masterpiece" was really just a situation similar to the emperor's new clothes. I have it at around ***1/2* personally. Honestly Angle really wasn't that good in 2000. And it wasn't because he was spamming finishers. He just was inexperienced.

I thought Jericho's character work towards the end of his WCW run seamlessly flowed into his ring work. While I was going through 1998 WCW, Jericho was able to draw heat at command off the smallest gestures. He truly "got it" when it came to making the face look like they had a believable shot against him. The Lenny Lane match specifically shows this off very well. I can honestly only recall one bad match during my 1998 WCW watch of Jericho's, and I blame it all on Mysterio.

While we're still talking about good tag matches that are WOOLCOCK approved, guys go watch this:

Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra (7/19/82)


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Love that series of matches. If I gave star ratings, everyone here would cut off my head for overrating the hell out of it. Ah, who cares. Here we go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fixed that for you.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha, fixed it myself. Thank you anyways.

I still strongly believe that if Jericho was on Smackdown instead of RAW all those years, he would be perceived more as an elite ring worker. I know it sounds silly, but imagine what his catalog would look like if he was working with Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar every week instead of Kevin Nash and RVD. When Jericho did have talent to work with (RAW 2004), he looked really good. I'm not gonna say that he's better than Mysterio, Benoit, Regal, or Eddie, but I do think that he has shown that he is not out of their league. I mean, dude had a good triple threat match with The Miz and Wade Barrett!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> While we're still talking about good tag matches that are WOOLCOCK approved, guys go watch this:
> 
> Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra (7/19/82)


Sadly the match was criminally deleted off of youtube, but yes I would implore anyone who comes across the match to make it mandatory viewing. Eaton is incredible as the sleazy and timid heel trying to evade Mantell's clutches, and the teased breakdown in communication between Mantell and Cobra due to their disruptive past is excellent. Sweet Brown Sugar is Koko Ware, and he's another sorely overlooked talent who shines brightly in this tag. Post match melee is wonderful and Koko's dive out of the ring has to be seen to be believed.

Whilst I'm pimping Koko Ware in Memphis, everyone watch Bill Dundee/Koko Ware 2/3 falls Scaffold Match (6/21/82). Forget being the best scaffold match ever, it's a fucking tremendous match in its own right. Object is to throw your opponent off the scaffold to the floor twice, with a thirty second rest period in between falls. Dundee worked in construction and the circus prior to wrestling, and is billed as a fearless man at home on the dangerous structure. Koko however is scared shitless and the early stages feature some great stooging on his part. They work mat wrestling and dangerous counters on the scaffold, rather than being careful and whilst reckless it just enhances the drama throughout. Dundee has a ton of inventive ways to evade Koko and utilise the scaffold, and there's one nearfall which is frightening at the end, trust me you'll recognise it when you see it.

Scaffold match is on youtube btw.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Skip to 02:46:06 for Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Christian vs Del Rio from SummerSlam blew away Danielson vs Cena.


Pfft. ADR/Christian was better 2 weeks before on Smackdown than their one at SS. If you're going to troll, at least use the right match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Christian/Orton SS was awesome, ***3/4 for that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No thanks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wyatt Family vs. Rhodes Brothers/Mysterio was :lenny


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Was it? Looked p. bad from my glance at it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Turned off my stream after a couple of minutes because of no interest in anything bar the main event so I can't judge the 6 man tag. Wont be surprised if it's vintage funnyfaces, marking for anything these days.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

The MAIN thing i dislike about the awesome potential of 
the Wyatts vs Shield is the obvious breakup of the Shield :argh:

Damn Orton looks horrible bald lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Breaking Point match was one of the biggest differences ever in performances. Orton gave in a career showing, while Cena was just utter shit. Good match, but an Orton carryjob.

You mean you don't mark out for Goldust or the Wyatts? And yet you mark out for :batista2?


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just bought Royal Rumble 2002, No Way Out 2002 and Wrestlemania 18. Thoughts on the road to Wrestlemania 2002? Cannot remember anything from the three events. Any thoughts on the matches to look out for?


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Damn i accidently posted in the wrong thread lol my bad!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RR 02 is an awesome event, NWO and mania are meh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You mean you don't mark out for Goldust or the Wyatts? And yet you mark out for :batista2?


I only mark for rton2 and :brock.

I'm cold on these tag matches because they are so overdone. Every week it's mostly the same match-ups with one or two people changed in it and since I'm not invested in any of them (unlike EVOLUTION or any Shield/Super Teams) I just skip them mostly.

But admittedly, I'm not all that enthusiastic about wrestling atm. In need of a break post-Mania probably. I just lack the passion, whether it's watching 1997 (just got done with April, though) or the current stuff. Not even watching Benoit's best matches gives me that old feeling atm, so I realize it's not very good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Just bought Royal Rumble 2002, No Way Out 2002 and Wrestlemania 18. Thoughts on the road to Wrestlemania 2002? Cannot remember anything from the three events. Any thoughts on the matches to look out for?


From what I remember from Royal Rumble 2002, Rock/Jericho was awesome. Jericho with a classic cowardly heel performance for the ages. I'm not a fan of the Rumble match, but it's worth a watch. Flair/Vince is kinda fun and Edge/Regal is a sleeper hit.

No Way Out 2002 sucked for the most part. Once again, Edge/Regal was a sleeper hit, but it was the worst out of their trilogy. RVD/Goldust was kinda fun too. Angle/HHH sucked, Undertaker/Rock sucked, and Austin/Jericho was alright, but pretty boring. Watch it for the nWo return promo and two matches.

Speaking as a former mark during that time, I was pretty disappointed by the Road to Wrestlemania. I expected more out of the nWo. Jericho/HHH was a very shitty feud and in argument for worst build up ever for a Mania match. Austin should not have been relegated to fighting Scott Hall. Undertaker/Flair was awesome. Midcard feuds sucked. Lots of interest in the product was lost during that time. The first half of 2002 was pretty brutal despite the star power, but the second half from Smackdown's point of view was golden.

That had to be the first time Sheamus had a good promo.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Clique said:


> I'd actually take BROCK/Cena and BROCK/Punk over Punk/Cena but they all are great matches and arguably the MOTY for each of those respective years. Get em Punk! Punk/Bryan OTL is amazing too. I never fell in love with Punk/Cena from SummerSlam.


Yeah, Punk/Cena @ SummerSlam wasn't the best of the match-up by any means. MITB, NOC, and Raw 2013 all far more impressive. Though, I liked just about all of their matches that I remember off the top of my head. 

Punk/Cena MITB above all else for me. Fantastic atmosphere + great match did it for me. Hadn't marked like I did during the match in quite some time prior to it, and since.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Love that series of matches. If I gave star ratings, everyone here would cut off my head for overrating the hell out of it. Ah, who cares. Here we go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for reminding me of the AMAZING street fight they had at Unforgiven 2008. speaking of this PPV I remember a great SHOW. I will give it another watch after RaW!


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm starting to like cesaro. any old matches of him you guys recommend?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

AWESOME tag match! 

Christian/Sheamus vs Real Americans: ***


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Have you seen his 2/3 falls match with Sami Zayn?

And Cesaro with DAT OVERNESS in LA. :mark: :cesaro


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jesus, that tag match was great.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> I'm starting to like cesaro. any old matches of him you guys recommended?


Not old, but worth a watch:









 (Bryan-Ziggler match)


Of course, Cesaro Bryan from Raw 7/22/12 is worth a watch if you haven't seen it, even though I feel that it may be slightly overrated.

I don't watch NXT, so I haven't seen the Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match, but I hear it is good, as well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

His matches on NXT vs Zayn are must watch

snd loads of indy stuff others would be better to recommend


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at John Cena saying that his match against Randy Orton represents the future.

:cesaro is so damn over. That match was great too. Reminded me of those fun matches in WCW when the crowd would go crazy over midcarders. Like Regal vs. Psychosis which you guys should watch.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

PGSucks said:


> Have you seen his 2/3 falls match with Sami Zayn?
> 
> And Cesaro with DAT OVERNESS in LA. :mark: :cesaro


NO. IS IT GOOD?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> NO. IS IT GOOD?


Cant tell if sarcastic but its amazing, I gave it ****1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the tag match was pretty good tonite, really good needs a rewatch

was really getting into ziggler/adr but then ziggler just jobbed from some reason. Ziggler should channel his inner Phil Brooks and quit tbh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Haha, fixed it myself. Thank you anyways.
> 
> I still strongly believe that if Jericho was on Smackdown instead of RAW all those years, he would be perceived more as an elite ring worker. I know it sounds silly, but imagine what his catalog would look like if he was working with Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar every week instead of Kevin Nash and RVD. When Jericho did have talent to work with (RAW 2004), he looked really good. I'm not gonna say that he's better than Mysterio, Benoit, Regal, or Eddie, but I do think that he has shown that he is not out of their league. I mean, dude had a good triple threat match with The Miz and Wade Barrett!


There's a difference between a good performance and a good match. If he was really that good then the talent he was working with wouldn't have mattered. Antonio Cesaro in the first half of 2013 had a horrible batch of opponents and still killed it every night, even producing a near-MOTYC with fucking Kofi Kingston. It's no excuse for Jericho. In fact him working with better guys like Goldust, Christian, Benoit and Austin just highlights how inferior to them he actually is.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Lita in the hall of fame :mark:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> NO. IS IT GOOD?


You'll jizz your shorts, that match is amazing. Inge if the best matches ever on NXT.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Just watched the Ziggler/Del Rio match from Raw.

Wow. Might as well get rid of all hope WWE will start to treat Ziggler better in the future. Awful.

That LA crowd, though. From the few segments I've seen, they have been great. I saw the end of the Real Americans VS Sheamus and Christian match, Ziggler/Del Rio, and Wyatt/Rhodes and Mysterio. Great ending for Wyatts/Rhodes and Mysterio. Loved the crowd for booing Batista in the backstage segment, and they really seem to like Cesaro, as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Gimme some ratings on The HBK/Y2J trilogy from 2008 folks!


Judgment Day - **** 1/2 (HUGE shoutout to *funnyfaces *for being the only other person I've ever seen rate it this high)
Great American Bash - N/A (I haven't seen it since it aired but it felt like more of a story advancer than a match, but some folks tend to dig it)
No Mercy Ladder Match - **** 1/4

Haven't seen the other two.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Anyone else get a sense of Cena half assery in the Bryan match?


Nah, I looked at it more like Cena couldn't keep up with Bryan and he was outwrestled and beat clean. Kinda felt like a passing of the torch (plus Cena was legit injured) but that thought was clearly put down afterwards by Orton...



JustJoel said:


> Pfft. ADR/Christian was better 2 weeks before on Smackdown than their one at SS. If you're going to troll, at least use the right match


He's not trolling brother, he's said that pretty much since the PPV aired.



Choke2Death said:


> I only mark for rton2 and :brock.
> 
> I'm cold on these tag matches because they are so overdone. Every week it's mostly the same match-ups with one or two people changed in it and since I'm not invested in any of them (unlike EVOLUTION or any Shield/Super Teams) I just skip them mostly.
> 
> But admittedly, I'm not all that enthusiastic about wrestling atm. In need of a break post-Mania probably. I just lack the passion, whether it's watching 1997 (just got done with April, though) or the current stuff. Not even watching Benoit's best matches gives me that old feeling atm, so I realize it's not very good.


Completely agree on paragraph two. Tag matches are great but now I just feel like they're all the same. Hard to get excited about them when there's so many. At least they usually deliver in quality. As for paragraph 3, sounds a lot like what I just went through. Best of luck on getting outta that slump.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Orton putting in some serious work with this gauntlet. His match with Cesaro should be awesome. 

Need a gif of him feeling himself after dodging Cena's dive. :lmao


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Cena vs. Orton on raw is a good match!


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

That was their best match in their mini series imo.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Judgment Day - **** 1/2 (HUGE shoutout to *funnyfaces *for being the only other person I've ever seen rate it this high)
> Great American Bash - N/A (I haven't seen it since it aired but it felt like more of a story advancer than a match, but some folks tend to dig it)
> No Mercy Ladder Match - **** 1/4


Corey :mark:

JD match is indeed awesome. I think it's more of a classic than the ladder match, actually. I enjoyed the Unsanctioned Match at Unforgiven more than most people. It's not a great match, but Shawn getting his revenge and basically killing the evil heel.

Raw was whatever tonight. Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans ruled. Orton/Cena was decent, I thought, but I thought it was stupid to have the champ pinned clean two weeks straight. Odds of him retaining inside the chamber keep going up, imo. Not that they were slim to start with.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Pretty good Raw if I could be honest.

Daniel Bryan still being over as fuck. Well done, my hometown crowd 

The Wyatts vs. Mysterio/Goldust/Rhodes was really good. Bray catching Rey and immediately doing Sister Abigail was SICK.

The Real Americans vs. Sheamus/Christian was good as well. I loved Sheamus and Cesaro beating each other up and I love how much love Cesaro got from the LA crowd. Such a fun match in general.

The Wyatts/Shield staredown was awesome. Bray not fighting until it is on his own terms was great, makes me want to see these two teams go at it even more. Really good booking.

Orton vs. Cena was nice for what it was. Hopefully it'll be the last time they will face each other since this "rivalry" has been going on for what feels like forever (though I doubt this will truly be the last time). Overall the match was fine.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Cena... meh. I re-watched Orton/Bryan from last week and it went up quite a bit and was a really good match, although it still doesn't touch their December match imo. Bryan winning is always great, though.

Bryan/Orton last week- ***1/4
Cena/Orton tonight- **1/4

Wouldn't disagree with it being the best Cena/Orton match in their recent series. Orton losing it after that DDT from the top rope adds 1/2* alone :lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Either Randy Orton was playing an excellent heel or he was legitimately losing his shit :lol


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Jeff Hardy (c) vs. CM Punk in a TLC Match for the World Heavyweight Championship at Summerslam 2009 is a ****1/4 match


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SummerSlam 2014 coming back to LA :mark: :mark: :mark:

Two SummerSlams in a row and then Mania 31 for PGSucks. :hb


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

HBK WRESTLEMANIA looks pretty good.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

PGSucks said:


> SummerSlam 2014 coming back to LA :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Two SummerSlams in a row and then Mania 31 for PGSucks. :hb


God Damn It. I wanted Summerslam to happen in New York at the Madison Square Garden. enough with L.A. already. 6 years in a row is just overkill.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Who likes the Survivor Series 2009 main event?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Would have preferred if SummerSlam would have been held at MSG in NYC over LA, tbh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> There's a difference between a good performance and a good match. If he was really that good then the talent he was working with wouldn't have mattered. Antonio Cesaro in the first half of 2013 had a horrible batch of opponents and still killed it every night, even producing a near-MOTYC with fucking Kofi Kingston. It's no excuse for Jericho. In fact him working with better guys like Goldust, Christian, Benoit and Austin just highlights how inferior to them he actually is.


You see, I just don't see it in all honesty and I think we might just have to agree to disagree. Whenever I see you and to a lesser extent, Woolcock give out examples of matches where the other wrestler has a better performance than Jericho, I disagree with all of them except for Jericho's matches with Eddie. In all those other cases, either both guys put on an equally good performance, or in other cases, I'm more impressed by Jericho than the other talent. And Jericho has had good matches with bad talents, including multiple good ones with Kofi Kingston. He also had good matches with guys like Goldberg, Lenny Lane, Kevin Nash, Kane, Wade Barrett, Batista, 2005 Cena, Prince Iaukea, and even Chyna! He really is that good.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Sheamus/Christan vs. Real Americans: ***3/4 (I want Cesaro/Sheamus program. Why this match was so good.Sadly, both guys lack the mic skills for their character.)

Cena vs. Orton: ***1/2 ( decent match better then at the rumble.)

Opening six man was good too. Rey is still a boss even with his knees falling off.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Any rating on the DX vs. JeriShow at TLC09?

I give it 4 stars


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Wyatt Family vs. Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Rey Mysterio - ***
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans - ***1/2
John Cena vs. Randy Orton - **3/4

Cena and Orton AGAIN work a good match, but it's the same thing, which is why I give it a **3/4.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Would've been cool to have Summerslam at MSG (they really don't run enough shows there), but the Staples Center seems to be a staple for the event. See what I did there?  California and New York get everything regardless.



I_Was_Awesome said:


> Who likes the Survivor Series 2009 main event?


Me.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wouldn't disagree with it being the best Cena/Orton match in their recent series. Orton losing it after that DDT from the top rope adds 1/2* alone :lmao





StraightEdgeJesus said:


> ^ Either Randy Orton was playing an excellent heel or he was legitimately losing his shit :lol


Orton is a fucking lunatic. I was :lmao when he lost it. That's one way to put a stop to a rogue chant attempt.

Sad thing is, if the rumors are true about him being in the doghouse for blowing up at Steph, I feel TPTB will only use this to say "that guy's unsteady." But really, it's how anyone should react with the way shit has been going. Plus, it made for mucho entertainment from where I sit.

Also lol'ed at him randomly talking to himself and doing some weird ass hand gestures in the middle of the match too. He almost looked like he was rapping to himself or something. It was bizarre. He had some swagger while doing it, though, which is why it really seemed like he was rapping or something.

The best part was that Lawler & Cole's "he's bizarre" and "_what_ is wrong with Randy Orton?" reactions seemed 100% genuine this time. :lmao They seemed dumbfounded.


Also liked that apparently the WWE let Seth address the Punk chants on the mic during Dean's match. Wish that was on tv.

Came in toward the end of it, but that Sheamus/Christian vs. Real Americans match looked great from what I saw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Would have preferred if SummerSlam would have been held at MSG in NYC over LA, tbh.


This is a laugh.

Also tonight, Sheamus & Christian vs Real Americans was AWESOME.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You see, I just don't see it in all honesty and I think we might just have to agree to disagree. Whenever I see you and to a lesser extent, Woolcock give out examples of matches where the other wrestler has a better performance than Jericho, I disagree with all of them except for Jericho's matches with Eddie. In all those other cases, either both guys put on an equally good performance, or in other cases, I'm more impressed by Jericho than the other talent. And Jericho has had good matches with bad talents, including multiple good ones with Kofi Kingston. He also had good matches with guys like Goldberg, Lenny Lane, Kevin Nash, Kane, Wade Barrett, Batista, 2005 Cena, Prince Iaukea, and even Chyna! He really is that good.


Gimme specifics (dates 'n' stuff) and I will legit watch of all of these soon. I've youtube ready to watch some right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho never had anything good w/Kofi or Chyna. Their matches were either horrible or plain poor. vs Chyna from Survivor Series '99. Jesus christ. He was just clearly the better of the two out there and wins the vote by proxy. I dig Jericho, but clearly there are plenty superior to him in the ring. Doesn't mean his slew of matches I consider good, really good, or great lower at all. It's simply the fact that others _(who get ranked in a high caliber)_ got him trumped. And I don't mean mainstream knockers like Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle either. Talking about the really talented dudes.

Also, FF, Jericho vs Malenko from Slamboree '98...the hell is that? It's bad. Dean must have not wrestled from Uncensored till then or something. Oof.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Shawn is way, way, way, way better than Jericho tbh. As a career whole, anyway; Jericho was clearly better in their matches together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. I don't care enough to even try to think it over. All I care to acknowledge is the Rockers stuff and a few PPV matches from 1996. Rest comes up in patches.

forgot to acknowledge how I actively hate the punches Shawn Michaels throws.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. That 6 man tag was a ton of fun. NASTY SISTER ABIGAIL! Bray Wyatt might be my favorite guy on the roster right now. Wyatt, Bryan and Reigns.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bray continues to impress. Still isn't my favorite in the group. That's the cool part. Same goes for Reigns within The Shield.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I like Harper too but I haven't seen enough of him to really call myself a fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

None of his singles matches?

He's had killer bouts already w/Punk, Danielson, Sheamus, & Ohno.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> None of his singles matches?
> 
> He's had killer bouts already w/Punk, Danielson, Sheamus, & Ohno.


Nope. Haven't seen any of them.

I concur about Sheamus/Christian v Real Americans. Awesome tag match. I'm too tired to do a proper writeup for it right now so I'll just say that everything they did was good. The Sheamus/Cesaro strike exchange was easily one of the best things I've seen all year. Also loved how they took Cesaro's giant swing, which is usually just used as an impressive crowd pleasing spot, and incorporated it as a cutoff to a hot tag attempt. Then they went even further and got a good countout false finish out of it. 3rd best match of 2014. Liked it enough for it to make THE LIST.



Spoiler: Cream of the Crop 2014



1. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
2. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
3. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh man you gots to give them a look. Could possibly win you over. All were really good - great.

I'm planning to watch that tag again tomorrow. I like it enough right now, but could do w/another go and see if I want to give it a plug on my MOTYC list. I think it should hold up. Loved how the fever pitch of Christian's hot tag was immediately turned into a FIP segment. Instead of a hard hitting sprint, it got more behind it. Very rad stuff. Cesaro & Swagger have racked up the most amount of quality TV matches so far. For my tastes, at least.

btw, did you see Sheamus vs Ryback from Smackdown last week? I personally found that to be great. A shade behind the excellent Shield vs Danielson, Sheamus, & Mysterio match to almost make it in the top three on the year so far. _(other two being the Danielson singles bouts vs Wyatt & Orton)_


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Sheamus/Ryback was great. Anyone that thinks Sheamus isn't at least a top 5 worker is kidding themselves.

What did Bryan do on RAW? Anything note worthy? He's really the main reason I even watch WWE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh man you gots to give them a look. Could possibly win you over. All were really good - great.
> 
> I'm planning to watch that tag again tomorrow. I like it enough right now, but could do w/another go and see if I want to give it a plug on my MOTYC list. I think it should hold up. Loved how the fever pitch of Christian's hot tag was immediately turned into a FIP segment. Instead of a hard hitting sprint, it got more behind it. Very rad stuff. Cesaro & Swagger have racked up the most amount of quality TV matches so far. For my tastes, at least.
> 
> btw, did you see Sheamus vs Ryback from Smackdown last week? I personally found that to be great. A shade behind the excellent Shield vs Danielson, Sheamus, & Mysterio match to almost make it in the top three on the year so far. _(other two being the Danielson singles bouts vs Wyatt & Orton)_


Yeah I need a re-watch as well to confirm that I want it on my list. As soon as I finished watching it I thought to myself this is a match that probably won't be remembered by most people in a couple months time even though everyone is likely to call it good now, but I enjoyed every moment of it so I said fuck it let me add it to the list because it deserves recognition. The pace they were working at had me expecting a sprint but as you said they fleshed it out nicely into a more complete match. It's at least ***1/2 from a star ratings point of view.

Nah I haven't seen Sheamus/Ryback. Saw you pimp it in the Other Wrestling section and to me it looks like one of those matches you might not expect a whole lot from on paper but for whatever reason it's an intriguing combination. Sheamus is one of the few guys on the roster that could make me want to watch a Ryback match. I'll try to get around to it this week. Only thing I watched from that show was Cesaro/Bryan. I liked Shield v Bryan/Sheamus/Mysterio but Christian/Sheamus v Cesaro/Swagger has it beat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz, Danielson was given the "night off". No match for him this week. He pulverized Kane in a later segment on the show. Crowd in Staples Center was SummerSlam level hot for him. Amazing.



Saint Dick said:


> Yeah I need a re-watch as well to confirm that I want it on my list. As soon as I finished watching it I thought to myself this is a match that probably won't be remembered by most people in a couple months time even though everyone is likely to call it good now, but I enjoyed every moment of it so I said fuck it let me add it to the list because it deserves recognition. The pace they were working at had me expecting a sprint but as you said they fleshed it out nicely into a more complete match. It's at least ***1/2 from a star ratings point of view.
> 
> Nah I haven't seen Sheamus/Ryback. Saw you pimp it in the Other Wrestling section and to me it looks like one of those matches you might not expect a whole lot from on paper but for whatever reason it's an intriguing combination. Sheamus is one of the few guys on the roster that could make me want to watch a Ryback match. I'll try to get around to it this week. Only thing I watched from that show was Cesaro/Bryan. I liked Shield v Bryan/Sheamus/Mysterio but Christian/Sheamus v Cesaro/Swagger has it beat.


100% sure it'll stick. I know it's right up my alley of what I want to see. They basically hit all the right areas among the four. Loved that we got the Sheamus/Cesaro slugfest, along w/getting to see Christian work so strongly in the face in peril role. Toss in quality work by Swagger himself and his need to take one - two insane shots to the face per match and it's a doozy. Excited to see it again. Not sure which of the two tags mentioned I'll like more. Really, really got into the six man.

Yeah, it was totally rad. Ryback looked like a player in that match. I'm a fan of his as it is, but he brought it there. Rewatched it and I was thinking "yeah, I got to pimp this some more". Sleeper hit even if it was one I was plenty excited for. Glad it delivered as much as it did. This is why I was dying to have Sheamus back. :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Skip to 02:46:06 for Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs Dutch Mantell & King Cobra.


Holy christ, was not aware of this. That's terrific. Everyone watch it if you're in the mood for some tremendous tag team wrestling.



HayleySabin said:


> forgot to acknowledge how I actively hate the punches Shawn Michaels throws.


Said as much before, but they're a massive reason why I actively dislike HBK/Jericho from Unforgiven '08. When you're working a heated brawl, I'm sorry but you need to be more snug and making your offence look good, and Michaels whiffing on punches considerably as well as throwing weak ones that did connect just took me out of the match. Was just your standard 'WWE hardcore' match mimicking a brawl, but all the intangibles were missing and neither man proved themselves capable of shining outside of WWE's version. Which is a shame given some of the bloody wars Michaels had in AWA as part of The Rockers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As I say my claim, I always jump to how much I like the Rockers brawls from AWA. Wondering where that went as his career came along. Unforgiven match drops more and more I see it. Went from very high, to pretty good, to a bit too long and plodding and I'm afraid to see if it drops again. It's fine, but nothing noteworthy. Punches play a part in that. Among other things. Why did Jericho dress in his gear for that match if it was a "non-match"? Always wondered that.

Shawn vs Jericho GAB dropped a MASSIVE ton upon the last watch too. Another one I was sure I thought was really good, only to be crushed by lagging boredom until Jericho splits Michaels wig and the stoppage happens. iirc Jericho's punches & kicks to the head were far better than any other portion of their grudge. Dunno what he got to bust out at Unforgiven. Certain it wasn't nearly as close b/c Shawn wasn't bleeding (I guess that gave Jericho a reason to look rougher one night over the other?) and I don't recall a single bit of offense Jericho actually had in the match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

As I recall I'm pretty sure Jericho utilised some restholds during the match, or that might be the Punk match at Extreme Rules. Either way it's a glaring offence issue when guys should be deviating from the norm and working to make brawls/street fights differentiate from their regular matches. Too often with WWE brawls, the reliance on props means guys just work a seemingly familiar match, only with weapons to serve as transitions and add something varied to their offence. I sorely wish more guys would actively work throughout the match to wrestle 'differently', much like Bryan did in the Wyatt match in terms of intense and rugged work to put over his hatred of Wyatt.

Bryan always wrestles stiff and with aggression, but something seemed more urgent and focused in his Rumble performance, and the match immediately separated itself from any other he's had in quite sometime. More workers paying homage to that would only make to enhance a lot of these brawls imo, similarly to how Hardy/Edge at Summerslam completely work a territory esque fight rather than a traditional WWE brawl. And the match is 10x better for it.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Would've been cool to have Summerslam at MSG (they really don't run enough shows there), but the Staples Center seems to be a staple for the event. See what I did there?  California and New York get everything regardless.
> 
> 
> Me.


Yeah, the last time I recall an actual WWE show having been held there was Survivor Series '11. Escapes me if anything had been held there since then besides live shows. 



HayleySabin said:


> This is a laugh.
> 
> Also tonight, Sheamus & Christian vs Real Americans was AWESOME.




Crowd in LA impressed today, and they were good at SummerSlam, but it would have been somewhat interesting to have it held at MSG. Also has a great crowd, comprised of a different fanbase.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> Crowd in LA impressed today, and they were good at SummerSlam, but it would have been somewhat interesting to have it held at MSG. Also has a great crowd, comprised of a different fanbase.


SummerSlam just makes sense in LA since it's warm all the time, they don't want a Summerslam 2004 situation where it was cold and rainy for that show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam belongs in MSG this year 

Need to rewatch the tag last night,Am I the only one that these commercials in the middle of matches REALLY bother me a ton recently ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Summerslam belongs in MSG this year
> 
> Need to rewatch the tag last night,Am I the only one that these commercials in the middle of matches REALLY bother me a ton recently ?



No man I'm totally with you, it feels like Raw has gone overboard with these commercial breaks recently. We get the opening segment, commercial, half a match, commercial, other half a match, commercial, plug for the wwe network, entrances, commercial, and on and on. It's become maddening. Why can't they just give us some 12 minute matches with no commercial break? It would make the match quality so much better. I'm of the opinion that they should structure the show so that the only time a commercial interrupts a match is if it's going over 20 minutes long, outside of that rare circumstance they should be able to lay out a show that doesn't require every single match to have a commercial break.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Summerslam belongs in MSG this year
> 
> Need to rewatch the tag last night,Am I the only one that these commercials in the middle of matches REALLY bother me a ton recently ?


Yeah that sounds like a SKINS problem


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Would've been cool to have Summerslam at MSG (they really don't run enough shows there), but the Staples Center seems to be a staple for the event. See what I did there?  California and New York get everything regardless.
> 
> 
> Me.


How many stars do you rate it?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Real Americans vs Sheamus and Christian from RAW is the second best match of the year so far for me and I consider it legit MOTYC material. Sheamus and Cesaro battering the shit out of eachother, Christian FIP, and just plenty of cool looking stuff. Not a dull moment, genuinely awesome.

The 6 man was very good as well and the Usos/Rybaxel was actually pretty fun, mainly due to the Usos. Didn't watch Orton/Cena and don't plan to either unless someone in here can convince me otherwise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SummerSlam needs to be in Sheffield in front of like 8,000 people 8*D.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

I've got the tag match from RAW at ***3/4 and #3 on my MOTY list so far. Best tag match since Brotherhood/Shield last year. 

All four guys looked great and it's going to be interesting to see where they go with Cesaro in the coming months.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

First half of Raw = FUN

Bryan still over as fuck, and two entertaining tag matches.

CESARO :mark:

SummerSlam in LA again = reunion from last year (Cody & Tyler pls)

I may try to swoop front row this year, though. :hb


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For the short time that this went on, this was pretty darn good. Jericho does something that he is often criticized here for not doing enough, and adjusts his offense for the occasion. Viscera just stays being big, which is enough. Now to watch the Viscera/Benoit match that ruled.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> SummerSlam in LA again = reunion from last year (Cody & Tyler pls)
> 
> I may try to swoop front row this year, though. :hb


If you don't get a custom made 'Debate League Champion' replica belt for the occasion, (because let's face it no-one is likely besting you currently) then it'll be a criminally missed opportunity. I hope Cody tries to hit on Dorada's midget girlfriend and takes a 30 second hurricanrana for his troubles (with a safe landing of course, I wouldn't wish the lad any harm  )


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao

I'll see what I can do. I think tickets go on sale mid-March, so I'll try to get front row that day if they don't sell out within seconds.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> I'll see what I can do. I think tickets go on sale mid-March, so I'll try to get front row that day if they don't sell out within seconds.


I'm imaging the crowd shot of you three side by side. There's Cody's brother just excited for everything, Cody with an Ant mask on which he then removes to show Great Muta face paint and there's you with your suave clothes and sunglasses having smuggled in some Newky Brown and making inviting eyes at Summer Rae.

You should be a sport and invite your parents too imo, or at least teach your dad how to do a live podcast/twitter commentary match per match :hb


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> I'll see what I can do. I think tickets go on sale mid-March, so I'll try to get front row that day if they don't sell out within seconds.


I'm gonna try to get first three rows camera side


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm imaging the crowd shot of you three side by side. There's Cody's brother just excited for everything, Cody with an Ant mask on which he then removes to show Great Muta face paint and there's you with your suave clothes and sunglasses having smuggled in some Newky Brown and making inviting eyes at Summer Rae.
> 
> You should be a sport and invite your parents too imo, or at least teach your dad how to do a live podcast/twitter commentary match per match :hb


:lmao That's a pretty accurate description tbh. Yeah, I haven't watched a show with my parents in ages. Mania will probably be the next one, so I'll be sure to post a running diary for that. :hb



PGSucks said:


> I'm gonna try to get first three rows camera side


:mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao That's a pretty accurate description tbh. Yeah, I haven't watched a show with my parents in ages. Mania will probably be the next one, so I'll be sure to post a running diary for that. :hb
> 
> 
> 
> :mark:


Are you guys going to Axxess this year? 

(I CAN'T BELIEVE SUMMERSLAM TICKETS ARE ON SALE NEXT MONTH HOLY MOLY)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

We didn't last year but we were watching some of the stuff from afar and it looked pretty neat. I wouldn't mind doing it this year.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

After re watching the DX vs. JeriShow match at TLC09. I forgot the horrible botch job at the end and it wasn't as epic like in my memories. not a 4 stars for sure. about ***1/4 if i wanna be generous.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ill be out on the west coast in Santa Barbara visiting my best friend when Summerslam is in LA, the plan as of right now is for us to go there, although if WWE puts out a shit card I'll probably sell the tickets instead of wasting one of our days on it. Damn shame I couldn't have gone out last year to see the awesomeness that was SS 2013. Oh yea, I forgot, that event was a "swing and a miss", not the best PPV since ER 2012 :vince3


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*** 1/4 for Jerishow/DX is still *** too generous :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Last SummerSlam was a really great experience, so I'll be going to this year's even if it's main evented by Orton vs. Batista III or something shitty like that.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Flux said:


> *** 1/4 for Jerishow/DX is still *** too generous :lmao


Why do you rate it so low?


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Guys would you say Summerslam 2009 and 2013 are the best since like 2005? honorable mention to 2011. 2010 and 2006 are just really awful.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

TIL that Americans drink Newky Brown, well I'll be.

As far as Summerslam 2013 goes, I think it's actually my favourite Summerslam since 02. I can't think of another one since then off the top of my head that had three stellar matches and I'll take that over a "solid" card any day of the week.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Newky Brown :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Newky Brown :mark:



I love getting Newked, second favorite beer behind Guinness, which is the Nectar of the Gods.

I though Summerslam 2013 was tied with Summerslam 2005 as the second best Summerslam ever, behind only 2002, which is the greatest PPV ever in my book.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Why do you rate it so low?


Look at the great TLC matches - There's a decent enough feud heading in to it so there's a reason to care, on top of incorporating fun, clever, creative and innovative spots as well as performing them well - Jerishow vs. DX had none of that There was no reason to care, no rhyme or reason behind what they were doing, there was nothing creative or fun to make up for the lack of emotion and personal investment, the pace was slow and plodding making the match drag like hell and all four men just performed sloppily, making teeny tiny mistakes here and there that took me out of the match completely. The weapons were used in a boring and pointless fashion in attempt to create this sense of violence, the finish was awfully contrived and just plain stupid (why use a broken ladder and/or Big Show when there's obviously other perfectly working ladders just outside of the ring?). On top of the usual flaws that come with ladder matches like inconsistent and ridiculous looking climbing speeds to suit the opponents coming in which makes it unbelievably hard to suspend disbelief, overused sequences that we've seen dozens of times before and the extremely aggravating "HE'S SO CLOSE YET HE'S SUCH A RETARD HE CAN'T GRAB THE BELTS" thing that really grinds my gears, this match just does nothing for me.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Well fuck me, there's two of you. Is it actually a popular drink in the states then? Tis my drink of choice currently as well but it's common over here. I dare say I'll be having a few at the end of my shift tonight.

I'm not a massive fan of Summerslam 05 to be honest, I'd take 2002, 2013 and 2003(yes you read that right) over it quite comfortably I think. It's probably my number 4 Summerslam by default though. Taker/Orton and Cena/Jericho are really good and I love Edge/Hardy but other than that I don't really like anything else too much. Hogan/Michaels is fairly amusing but nothing particularly good. I'd take either Punk/Brock, Bryan/Cena or Christian/Del Rio over any of those matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's more of a luxury beer over here - sorta like Guinness (which I detest). Most foreign beers are seen as a luxury and are thus charged at a premium compared to the cheap generic shit like Coors/Budweiser.

SummerSlam '13 is probably the best SS since '02 imo (don't think I've seen '03 though).


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

That's rather ironic because Budweiser is more expensive than Newky in most places over here.

You should watch Summerslam 03 mate. Most people don't rate it as highly as me but it's at the very least good. If nothing else watch Angle/Lesnar which is superb. I also like the chamber match quite a lot(most don't) and the four way four the U.S. title is awesome(and only like 10 minutes). Taker/A-train is worth a watch as well.

Anyways, time for work....yay


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/A-Train is a match that i forgot even existed lol.  Taker in '03 was pretty great too so i need to check it out...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> It's more of a luxury beer over here - sorta like Guinness (which I detest). Most foreign beers are seen as a luxury and are thus charged at a premium compared to the cheap generic shit like Coors/Budweiser.
> 
> SummerSlam '13 is probably the best SS since '02 imo (don't think I've seen '03 though).




Agreed here. I feel SS 13 is a top 5 in history. 02 is clearly GOAT


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wilberforce said:


> That's rather ironic because Budweiser is more expensive than Newky in most places over here.
> 
> You should watch Summerslam 03 mate. Most people don't rate it as highly as me but it's at the very least good. If nothing else watch Angle/Lesnar which is superb. I also like the chamber match quite a lot(most don't) and the four way four the U.S. title is awesome(and only like 10 minutes). Taker/A-train is worth a watch as well.
> 
> Anyways, time for work....yay


People will likely yell at me for this, but I still haven't seen Angle/Lesnar despite everyone telling me to do so for years.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Top 5 summerslams?

1: 2002
2: 2013 
3: 2005
4: 2011
5: 2001 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Flux said:


> Look at the great TLC matches - There's a decent enough feud heading in to it so there's a reason to care, on top of incorporating fun, clever, creative and innovative spots as well as performing them well - Jerishow vs. DX had none of that There was no reason to care, no rhyme or reason behind what they were doing, there was nothing creative or fun to make up for the lack of emotion and personal investment, the pace was slow and plodding making the match drag like hell and all four men just performed sloppily, making teeny tiny mistakes here and there that took me out of the match completely. The weapons were used in a boring and pointless fashion in attempt to create this sense of violence, the finish was awfully contrived and just plain stupid (why use a broken ladder and/or Big Show when there's obviously other perfectly working ladders just outside of the ring?). On top of the usual flaws that come with ladder matches like inconsistent and ridiculous looking climbing speeds to suit the opponents coming in which makes it unbelievably hard to suspend disbelief, overused sequences that we've seen dozens of times before and the extremely aggravating "HE'S SO CLOSE YET HE'S SUCH A RETARD HE CAN'T GRAB THE BELTS" thing that really grinds my gears, this match just does nothing for me.


Thanks. great analysis!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't know what my top 5 Summerslams would be off the top of my head. SS 02 would most probably be at the top of the list, 2011 would be on there, and 2013 would be on there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching the rest of Raw. Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans was awesome stuff. Cesaro being over with the L.A. crowd was great. They need to turn him face because he's pretty likable.

And of course, the main event! I highly enjoyed it, even more than the Royal Rumble match. Great back and forth with a great crowd that wasn't as concerned as the RR crowd with shitting on the match. Although I don't think finisher kick outs were warranted, it wasn't a big deal. The whole thing was twenty minutes of fun. From laughing at the random "Batista & Orton have great tattoos" sign to Orton looking like he's rapping to himself after ducking Cena's shoulder knockdown and lastly, when he hit that top rope DDT and completely went off on the crowd afterwards. He's completely out of control. :lol Very enjoyable match. Would probably go as far as ★★★¾. Orton's best match in the gauntlet so far after the Bryan match last week.

For a feud that no one cares about, the crowd sure was electric as fuck.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> SummerSlam just makes sense in LA since it's warm all the time, they don't want a Summerslam 2004 situation where it was cold and rainy for that show.


Liked SummerSlam '02 quite a bit, and it was held in NY.  The crowd has great, of course. 

Crowd to me is more important than the climate of the city it is held in.

And since SummerSlam is one of the Big 4 PPVs, the crowd at MSG would be even more impressive. Would be just interesting to hold it there, at least this year.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

What's everyone's take on the MVP/Chris Benoit series for the U.S Title in 2007? They had matches at WM23, Backlash and 2 out of 3 match at Judgement day plus one or two Smackdown.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished watching the rest of Raw. Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans was awesome stuff. Cesaro being over with the L.A. crowd was great. *They need to turn him face because he's pretty likable.*


He's in the process of it now - who you think is playing face against your boy Orton on Smackdown Friday?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam 2005 would probably be my eighth favorite SS. I know 2002, 2013, and 2011 are top three. 2008, 2000, 2001, 1997, 2009, and 1992 are every bit as good as 2005. Some I felt were better.

I wasn't a huge fan of the RAW main event as expected, but C2D's justification for it was nice. Glad you're becoming a Cesaro fan too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't like 05 as much as others on here seem to, but maybe it's because I'm a KURT ANGLE guy


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> People will likely yell at me for this, but I still haven't seen Angle/Lesnar despite everyone telling me to do so for years.




You're right, I am going to yell at you, HOW HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THAT MATCH???! It's Lesnar in his prime! It's Angle working in a completely sensible, bad ass baby face way! It's their best match together! Even better than the Ironman which is fucking outstanding! It shits all over their WM 19 match!

Okay done yelling 

Seriously though, if you need a link let me know and I'll hook it up, that match is sick. Cal I think even gave it 5 stars, I have it at ****1/2 but really that doesn't matter, it needs to be watched.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Me and Sono were suppose to go to Summerslam at THE GARDEN this year 

didnt like orton/cena tbh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> He's in the process of it now - who you think is playing face against your boy Orton on Smackdown Friday?


Yeah, he was also playing the face role in the Rumble match. The swing is too over for him to be a heel.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I wasn't a huge fan of the RAW main event as expected, but C2D's justification for it was nice. Glad you're becoming a Cesaro fan too.


You may refuse to look at the match in fair fashion but even you gotta admit this was off the charts. :lol










As for Cesaro, always knew the talent was there. Booking hasn't been great to him but he's made the best of it and really started getting over with me in the past few months. Him and Sheamus need a 20 minute PPV match where they just kill each other with uppercuts and clubbing blows.



PGSucks said:


> I don't like 05 as much as others on here seem to, but maybe it's because I'm a KURT ANGLE guy


I guess it's understandable since it was one of his lesser years. But I'm a Chris Benoit guy and I love that year even though his booking was a huge injustice.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to have it at ***** but it went down to ****1/2 on my last watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wtf is orton doing in that gif ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, might as well throw a link my way. Doesn't mean I'll actually watch. :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Summerslam 05 is so :mark:, huge fan of every match on the card basically since the two squashes were okay, well one was AWESOME and the other was simply mindless fun. Second best Orton/Taker, an Eddie/Rey match I like more than most, a cena/Jericho match that is Cenas MOTY for 05, a overlooked WHC match between Batista and JBL, and a great match between Hogan and HBK. 

Only third to 13 and 02 imo


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Here's a good one even though the idiots have taken out the Angle Slam on Vince post-match.








hardyorton said:


> What's everyone's take on the MVP/Chris Benoit series for the U.S Title in 2007? They had matches at WM23, Backlash and 2 out of 3 match at Judgement day plus one or two Smackdown.


Enjoyed WM23, Backlash and the Smackdown match from 13/4. Judgment Day is a bit on the boring side and their match from UK (I think it was) was forgettable.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> I guess it's understandable since it was one of his lesser years. But I'm a Chris Benoit guy and I love that year even though his booking was a huge injustice.


I was just referring to SummerSlam from that year because Angle was in a throwaway match with Eugene. I'm actually a *big* fan of 2005 overall (if not mostly for PRIME ORTON)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks. Anything I need to know about the buildup or is there a promo vid at the beginning that covers it all?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I was just referring to SummerSlam from that year because Angle was in a throwaway match with Eugene. I'm actually a *big* fan of 2005 overall (if not mostly for PRIME ORTON)


Point still stands since Benoit was in a 30 second match. 

2005 on a whole rules. Great year with great weekly TV and matches. Plus despite not being a fan at the time, I have good memories of that year so when I watch something from WWE in that year, it takes me back. ORTON in 2005 was awesome, even if not as much as 2004.



The Lady Killer said:


> Thanks. Anything I need to know about the buildup or is there a promo vid at the beginning that covers it all?


Here's the promo if you wanna watch it:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

:lmao I forgot about Benoit vs. Orlando Jordan. I probably should give SSlam05 another watch, as it's been a while.

I'll wait until the NETWORK launches :vince$


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

PGSucks said:


> I don't like 05 as much as others on here seem to, but maybe it's because I'm a KURT ANGLE guy


What? are you telling me you don't like the clinic Eugene and Kurt Angle put on? Eugene schooled Angle around like a little girl. 6 stars classic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably me being an Angle mark of sorts  , but i like Angle/Eugene for what it's purpose was, it was fun IMO.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> People will likely yell at me for this, but I still haven't seen Angle/Lesnar despite everyone telling me to do so for years.


Watch 60 minute Iron Man and SummerSlam '03. Awesome continues forth.

Iron Man: *** 3/4

SummerSlam: *** 3/4

3x Threat w/Big Show: *** 1/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Me and Sono were suppose to go to Summerslam at THE GARDEN this year
> 
> didnt like orton/cena tbh


I will be sure to make a SKINS sign when I go to SummerSlam again


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I will be sure to make a SKINS sign when I go to SummerSlam again


:banderas oh lawd


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Watch 60 minute Iron Man and SummerSlam '03. Awesome continues forth.
> 
> Iron Man: *** 3/4
> 
> ...


I'd have all of those at least a half star higher imo 

Iron man: ****1/2 

Summerslam: ****1/2 

Vengeance triple threat: ****1/4


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Murderface, thoughts on Ziggler situation?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Murderface, thoughts on Ziggler situation?


What's the situation?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Dolph the situation rton2

I assume he means how much hes being buried


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> What's the situation?


Treated like a complete jobber. Losing in under two minutes to ADR on Raw.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> I'd have all of those at least a half star higher imo
> 
> Iron man: ****1/2
> 
> ...


TBF I haven't seen any of them in a long time. I remember the Iron Man match being epic, but I went on the down side on all of them just in case my memory serve me wrong.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Treated like a complete jobber. Losing in under two minutes to ADR on Raw.


There's no reason to harp on it since he has been in this situation for awhile now, let's just hope WWE get's their shit together and pushes him again.

Him losing to Del Rio in that short match was nothing significant, he was gonna loose even if it went 10 mins, so the time is irrelevant.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Tyler, I'm assuming we're attending SS again this year?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Well, it does kind of matter, he looks like a complete jobber if he barely even has the chance to get any offense in, it is a squash match, basically. At least they could have given the match 10 minutes or so to book him stronger. 

But yeah, it hurts to see him get this type of treatment.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Tyler, I'm assuming we're attending SS again this year?


If it is possible, you know I'm more then down to go again :mark:



> Well, it does kind of matter, he looks like a complete jobber if he barely even has the chance to get any offense in, it is a squash match, basically. At least they could have given the match 10 minutes or so to book him stronger.
> 
> But yeah, it hurts to see him get this type of treatment.


Remember that long match Kofi had with Orton? & what is he doing right now, nothing.

Time is irrelevant man, Dolph is on that Fandango level right now, where he wins and loses a lot & were just gonna have to grin and bear it & hope they push him again.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I can't believe Cali is getting both Slam & Mania next season. You spoiled loons.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Difference is that Kofi had been a joke for a while, no one takes him seriously. 

Ziggler has been treated badly for a few months now, but he was at least at a level where one could see him going back up the card. I'd say it is still possible, but I am slowly losing hope.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Difference is that Kofi had been a joke for a while, no one takes him seriously.
> 
> Ziggler has been treated badly for a few months now, but he was at least at a level where one could see him going back up the card. I'd say it is still possible, but I am slowly losing hope.


It's certainly possible, I'm always gonna hold out hope for Ziggler, you can't keep him down forever when he is as over as he is.



> I can't believe Cali is getting both Slam & Mania next season. You spoiled loons.


That's why were the best


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ppl from Cali get everything


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wait, we get Mania too?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Ppl from Cali get everything


Most of the time :lmao :lmao



> Wait, we get Mania too?


San Francisco man :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Wait, we get Mania too?


Mania 31 if I'm not mistaken. In my city of dreams, San Francisco.  (or somewhere around the Bay Area)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

oh fuck :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

TLK, don't you follow news? They announced Mania is in Santa Clara some time ago.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I wouldn't be too against flying over to L.A though for the Slam weekend if the line up is stacked and Lesnar appears.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

nah, I'm pretty much behind on most everything wrestling related. I mean, I haven't seen Lesnar/Angle ffs. :hb


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Sono Shion said:


> I wouldn't be too against flying over to L.A though for the Slam weekend if the line up is stacked and Lesnar appears.


Didn't order tickets in time, can't find any good pre-'Mania Raw seats w/o being Platinum and $400-500.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That means the Raw after Mania 31 will likely be in the same area. 

LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO BOTH :mark:


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

There are decent tickets on Stubhub Rhodes.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Oh shit :mark:

Main Concourse 103 looks p. good


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


> I wouldn't be too against flying over to L.A though for the Slam weekend if the line up is stacked and Lesnar appears.


You book the flights, I'll be in charge of the limousine


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WF SUMMERSLAM RENDEZVOUS~!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

On the Ziggler situation, i think him losing in 2 mins shows how far he has gone. From winning the title to losing in two minutes. A loss is a loss but its the manner of loss that makes it bad IMO. It's a shame too. I mean its not like WWE have always booked him strongly but i never thought he would be in this position.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They're clearly just building up ADR so that he can be fed to Batista, and Ziggler is good at making people's offense look strong, so it makes sense. Sucks if you're a fan of his, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Summerslam is for jobbers. You fools need to go to Wrestlemania where the big boys play like Batista and.....Batista and......Batista?


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm doing Mania too. More excited for RAW instead of Mania to be honest. Ain't nothing like the post mania crowd these days.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah it does suck if you're a fan. It's funny what a difference a year makes to. Fandango was feuding with Y2J but now he is irrelavent. No that i'm complaining about his position (never was a fan) but it's funny to see that change. Same with Miz too. Wonder if he will make the Mania card this year lol. And of course Ziggler might not even be wrestling at mania with the way he is being booked. Last year he had a good showing in the Rumble and was MITB winner..


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I still like Ziggler but I really dont see a future for him in WWE, perhaps he should test out the indy scene or Japan?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> WF SUMMERSLAM RENDEZVOUS~!


:mark: :yes

Finally gonna achieve my lifelong goal of sleeping with one of my teachers going to Mania too.  #ThanksCali


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Tbh I wouldn't say it's hard to forget personally, but I see your point since so many will instinctively call Jericho a great worker. He's truthfully never really excelled for me bar certain spells, and despite his best matches being of a high standard...I can't point to one where he's the better man in it. Fallbrawl '97 is a total Eddie masterclass imo in terms of a heel performance and adding in all these naunces to make simple holds and transitions mean more, on top of a great control segment. The HHH LMS is a match where I'd call HHH's performance very good-great, which is strong praise from me as I'm a longstanding detractor of his. I truthfully don't find the HBK '08 series to be all that strong, bar the GAB match off memory. I found the street fight really poor with Michaels whiffing on punches and just not having the offence to work an effective brawl, and Jericho's restholds were pretty jarring for a grudge match. Really, both men typified to me that they can work a 'WWE brawl', but when you've watched Memphis and Mid South brawls with more urgency and hatred, it becomes easy to distinguish an authentic brawl from a propfest. The ladder match truthfully does little for me, with a number of irritating choregraphed spots which also make little sense but look good (lionsault on the ladder, elbow drop on the ladder etc).


Fair points. Jericho certainly isn't a brawler, and the WWE shouldn't put them in that position in the first place, imo. He excels as a character wrestler, and puts on consistently _good_ ring efforts. His original heel run in WCW was excellent. He had *so* many unique character spots ("playing dead" outside the ring, wearing the belt while wrestling, raising his hands and then taking offense when the crowd boos, etc). One of the best "crybaby" heels, imo. 



> I'm struggling to think of Jericho's other best matches really. I found Mysterio better typically in their '09 matches, he was pretty horrendous during 2003-2005 bar the Wrestlemania 19 match and the Christian Wrestlemania 20 match. The HBK Wrestlemania match is one of his better performances, but I find HBK's comeback and blowoff of the backwork to be too distracting and negligent on his part, since it renders the entire story and narrative of Jericho dissecting HBK's biggest weakness irrelevant when he refuses to sell it post comeback.


The Juventud match at Superbrawl VIII is really all I can add here, which is probably my favorite Juvi singles match. The match v. HBK is probably his best performance for me. His feuds with Malenko and Mysterio, as a whole, were quite memorable as well. He was sort of lackluster in Japan, and had reliably good matches in WCW. Interesting that I started with Malenko, because Jericho is the absolute opposite - the more you pay attention, the less he gives you. He does a lot of the spots we all know and love, but doesn't execute the little things as well, and usually botches or semi-botches something in his matches (esp. pre-WWE). 





> Really, Jericho is a mediocre face worker imo at least in terms of what I look for in a good face worker. Bryan, Bourne, Masters, Christian, Mysterio, Cena, Punk, Goldust, Taker, Tajiri, Eddie, Benoit, Regal, Matt Hardy etc are all easily better face workers post '00 in WWE to me than him, and if I put more thought into it I could probably name far more. As a heel, I don't find him again that engaging and find a lot of his control segments, especially '08 onwards can drag and fail to build a gripping narrative, with most falling into that element of 'mechanically good, but lacking in creativity', and again the likes of Finlay for example annihilate him imo in that aspect. Honestly, I wouldn't call him a bad worker, but at this point I'm not sure there was a stretch of his career where he was consistently good as a worker, at least past a few months. As a character in later WCW he was gold, but how often did that transfer to the ring? In WWE, his debut spell is rough, his '00-01 work better but hardly amazing, his '02-05 ranges from good to terrible, and post '08 I've again found him very inconsistent, and he was flat out bad imo from '10 onwards with him really struggling to keep up with the likes of Bourne in their PPV series, and the Edge series being the epitome of two flat workers struggling to create something interesting.


Leave off Masters, Hardy, Christian, and Bourne and I'd agree with most everything here. He elevates over those because of his natural charisma, which imo, keeps crowds invested in him. Also, that his offensive moves are quite nice (though sometimes executed sloppily or "by the numbers") and has an original, now iconic, finisher, and that's really what he's got to offer in the ring. His interactions with the crowd, ref, and opponent keep you watching, and of course the occasional release German Suplex or odd tiger/dragon suplex help also.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tbh I'd have Christian way above Jericho, as for a match Y2J had that he had an outstanding performance superior to the other person? svs 08 ? thought Cena was p.good, mania 19 ? kinda, but shawn was p.shitty in the mania match I must admit


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have to agree with Jericho not being a very interesting babyface performer, whoever mentioned it earlier.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Guys like Jericho, HBK and HHH should stay heel forever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

why is that brother ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho and Michaels are too likable to stay heel forever. :HHH2 can stay heel for the rest of his life. Or he can just leave.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SKINS do you like Y2Js series vs Rey?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> SKINS do you like Y2Js series vs Rey?


I remember liking their bash match and beat the clock sd one, lukewarm/dont on the other ppv matches


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Carlos Spicyweiner said:


> Guys like Jericho, HBK and HHH should stay heel forever.


I agree with HHH, he's just got that asshole persona (real or not, who knows) that screams heel.

I love HBK as a babyface once he came back from his back injury, he was one of the best faces in peril I ever saw in the ring.

Jericho, was great heel but he was a good face in his early run.

I'd put Orton on that list of guy's that should stay heel.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Extreme Rules match was total Jericho GOATyness, and the JD match was loads of fun. They had another good one on the Donald Trump RAW although it was really short, and another one worth watching on Smackdown that year. Crazy how the IC Title was treated in 09. Went from Regal to Punk to JBL to Mysterio. Then Mysterio and Jericho had that great feud. And then Mysterio and Ziggler had a very good feud. THEN Mysterio and Morrison had that sick match. And if that's not enough, Morrison had good stuff with Ziggler, Benjamin, and McIntyre. When McIntyre finally got it though, the momentum died.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Like funnyfaces said, Jericho is too likable to stay heel forever, I have enjoyed his work both as a heel and as a face.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone know if Jericho has a planned comeback this year? Still like to see him lock up with a ton of guys.



I_Was_Awesome said:


> How many stars do you rate it?


Probably stick it at ****. Been a while since I've seen it but the beginning is clearly the most memorable part. It suffers from the one thing everyone complains about where one guy is thrown outside the ring and the other two go at it for a while, but in this case they did a really good job of putting together the move that kept the guy on the outside. If that makes sense. Great match.



Cactus Jack said:


> Ill be out on the west coast in Santa Barbara visiting my best friend when Summerslam is in LA, the plan as of right now is for us to go there, although if WWE puts out a shit card I'll probably sell the tickets instead of wasting one of our days on it. Damn shame I couldn't have gone out last year to see the awesomeness that was SS 2013. Oh yea, I forgot, that event was a "swing and a miss", not the best PPV since ER 2012 :vince3


Yeah, low buyrates. Show sucked. :austin3

I'm still hopeful we get to see Lesnar vs. Bryan in the main event of Summerslam in this year's version of the best vs. the beast.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jericho was at some point being advertised for a show in Winnipeg in March or so. Don't know what the latest rumors are on that.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> tbh I'd have Christian way above Jericho, as for a match Y2J had that he had an outstanding performance superior to the other person? svs 08 ? thought Cena was p.good, mania 19 ? kinda, but shawn was p.shitty in the mania match I must admit


Christian reminds me a bit of Jericho, but worse at everything. His matches are even more by the numbers, lack nuance, and have less spectacular offense. He's not as charismatic, or as intriguing a character. Jericho at least only needs a "Come on Beybey!" to get a rise out of the crowd, instead of clapping or stomping his foot like a jackass.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Christian's 2009 is better than any year Jericho's ever had so for that reason I'd put him above Jericho as a worker. Not by a whole lot though. I can't think of too many outstanding heel performances from Christian whereas Jericho has a bunch of good stuff as a babyface and as a heel. Not sure where the Jericho hate is coming from actually. He has some crummy matches to his name but so does everybody else. He's plenty good imo. The Mysterio series is a prime example of how good he can be. I don't see how there can be a strong argument for him being bad. He's a high level mic worker too.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I was most entertained my Christian as Captain Charisma back in '04-'05. Liked his promos a lot, and he was pretty entertaining, in overall. Was also pretty entertained by Christian during his latest heel run, when he was feuding with Orton in 2011. Granted, it wasn't the greatest in terms of the storyline he was part of, and seeing him lose the WHC on SD after winning it at ER was annoying, some of his matches with Orton were good, and I liked his promos quite a bit at the time. He has entertained me far more as a heel than as a face, tbh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I already miss talking about WCW tag teams. I can't believe we have to defend the merits of great wrestlers now. Now somebody go watch Mysterio/Kidman vs. Benoit/Malenko vs. Saturn/Raven from Slamboree 1999. Just please avoid everything else from that show. Even Bigelow/Knobbs sucked.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Did I hallucinate or are they using the "one more match" gimmick for Christian again, going into the Chamber? I know he's said a few times (off microphone), and I'm pretty sure JBL has mentioned it also. LOL at them doing that two years later, and with Christian a face now, so it seems pathetic.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Christian's 2009 is better than any year Jericho's ever had so for that reason I'd put him above Jericho as a worker. Not by a whole lot though. I can't think of too many outstanding heel performances from Christian whereas Jericho has a bunch of good stuff as a babyface and as a heel. Not sure where the Jericho hate is coming from actually. He has some crummy matches to his name but so does everybody else. He's plenty good imo. *The Mysterio series* is a prime example of how good he can be. I don't see how there can be a strong argument for him being bad. He's a high level mic worker too.


Speaking of Mysterio, I often overlook him in terms of his work these past few years. In terms of his work from the past few years, his match VS Jericho @ The Bash is definitely a highlight. His matches with Jericho, Punk, Ziggler, and Rhodes are all matches that I have enjoyed. I liked feud with Punk quite a bit, as well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Speaking of Mysterio, I often overlook him in terms of his work these past few years. In terms of his work from the past few years, his match VS Jericho @ The Bash is definitely a highlight. His matches with Jericho, Punk, Ziggler, and Rhodes are all matches that I have enjoyed. I liked feud with Punk quite a bit, as well.


Mysterio is impossible to overlook. He was the best worker in the company in 2009-2010.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, since he's been basically used to put over others for the past few years, I sometimes forget about how great he's been in the ring. Especially these last two or so years, he hasn't been involved in any overly interesting feuds.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

edit, I really can't use spoilers


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> Fair points. Jericho certainly isn't a brawler, and the WWE shouldn't put them in that position in the first place, imo. He excels as a character wrestler, and puts on consistently _good_ ring efforts. His original heel run in WCW was excellent. He had *so* many unique character spots ("playing dead" outside the ring, wearing the belt while wrestling, raising his hands and then taking offense when the crowd boos, etc). One of the best "crybaby" heels, imo.


My recollection of late WCW is pretty hazy, but I wouldn't disagree as a character he shined in that period. Again, how well he was able to inject that character into his matches to add some unique touches, whilst also piecing together a good-great match in between the character moments remains to be seen. He really should never be in a brawl ever again though, as he simply lacks the offence and ability to work snug to convey the necessary hatred that drives the atmosphere in a brawl.




JustJoel said:


> Interesting that I started with Malenko, because Jericho is the absolute opposite - the more you pay attention, the less he gives you. He does a lot of the spots we all know and love, but doesn't execute the little things as well, and usually botches or semi-botches something in his matches (esp. pre-WWE).


I'd likely still have Jericho above Malenko (speaks moreso of my apathy to Malenko outside of sub ten minute matches where he's typically far better), but I wouldn't disagree with this assessment. I feel he has the reputation and performance skill to convey this impression he's one of the better workers on the roster, but when you analyse and pay attention to his matches, I find his layout and general work to be far less impressive than a number of his contemporaries.




JustJoel said:


> Leave off Masters, Hardy, Christian, and Bourne and I'd agree with most everything here. He elevates over those because of his natural charisma, which imo, keeps crowds invested in him. Also, that his offensive moves are quite nice (though sometimes executed sloppily or "by the numbers") and has an original, now iconic, finisher, and that's really what he's got to offer in the ring. His interactions with the crowd, ref, and opponent keep you watching, and of course the occasional release German Suplex or odd tiger/dragon suplex help also.


Afraid I'm going to have to disagree there because all four of those imo are head and shoulders better than Jericho as face workers.

Masters was incredible during his 2010-11 Superstars run, and completely re-evaluated my stance on him after his dismal first run. In many respects it's a crying shame his untrustworthy attitude in his first run robbed him of any substantial place on the card second time around, because he was a top three worker during that time period and deserved at least a prominent midcard run. Still, his selling was better than any Jericho match I can recall, he timed his hope spots and comebacks with precision, his offence was varied and adjusted to reflect the workover (hitting one legged samoan drops for example), he worked numerous creative spots to add variety to his work, he was surprisingly over consistently for a mere curtain jurker on Superstars and he just typified a face worker to me. I wouldn't argue Jericho would always have more control of a crowd, but how much of that depends on his mic skills and longevity with WWE? Masters was exiled for nearly three years, before returning and being permanently stuck on Superstars, with little to no character or feud development, and stuck basically working good-great matches weekly. He got impressive matches out of Chavo, Ziggler, Swagger alongside the stellar Mcintyre series (though I wouldn't call the former three matches carryjobs, even if Masters was the better performer).

Hardy's run from '06-'08 imo is a better body of work than anything Jericho has ever accomplished. Again, he was a superb seller and was a tremendous foil for heels in singles or tag affairs. His offence was superb, his timing and comebacks were well earnt with a strong structure and he continually remained over whilst adapting from midcard runs, to working as the ECW champion and working just as well as the underdog to Henry, as he was as 'the ace' feeding Bourne offence and making him look credible in their title match. His work in the Edge series demonstrates he was far more suited to blood feuds than Jericho, with the Summerslam and Unforgiven matches vs Eddge being far far far better than the Edge/Jericho series in '10, and despite Edge being better than usual in the Hardy series, it's not like was ever a very good worker so Hardy being able to give Edge his best match speaks volumes of Hardy's performance. The 6/22/07 Finlay match from Smackdown for me is better than any Jericho match, though I accept I'm likely not going to be in the majority on that one. For me, he just does the simple aspects far more than Jericho, and just has an overall greater sense of timing and nuance to his babyface work.

Christian, as said again surpassed any period of Jericho's work with his '09-10 run on ECW/Smackdown. His babyface work was tremendous, and he produced great matches with everyone from Swagger to Regal to Dreamer to Tatsu to Zach Ryder. He timed his comebacks with aplomb, his ability to vary his offence however being his greatest asset. Not many people would think to sell their own arm more than their opponent after a tornado DDT, simply because his arm had been the target during the workover. The Orton OTL match is also a tremendous Christian performance, and whilst I wouldn't call it a carryjob, I'm not surprised that it's Orton's best match post '06. His babyface performance was so engrossing, with a number of impressive callback spots and sequences designed to progress the story of Christian being good..but Orton being better. The best had to be the callback to the Smackdown title change, with Christian teasing the same crossbody, only to cling to the ropes and transition into a sunset flip for a nearfall. It's something like that, which very few would even consider, that distinguishes him from the others and it's why I can't agree Jericho's work has more nuance to it than Christian. He bumps better, sells better, pieces together better structures, adjusts and varies his offence to the situation better...just does everything Jericho does far better, minus the charisma. But there's more to being a babyface worker than just mere charisma. I agree as a heel he's far less impressive (no surprise the Christian/Orton series drops off substantially when Christian goes heel, and Orton remains face), but that doesn't detract from being a better babyface worker, by quite a distance to boot.

Bourne, well again like Masters the majority of his run was contained to ECW and later sub ten minute RAW matches or Superstars appearances. He's a better bumper than Ziggler for me, but unlike Ziggler he is able to channel his bumping and segue it into his comebacks and thereby sell better throughout the match. Ziggler for me, is a very good bumper but a poor seller, because he very rarely actually sells in matches bar bumping big for key offence, and his matches struggle to retain any heat during the middle as a result. Bourne adjusted well from ROH, and refined his style to build to his comebacks, which whilst more simple and structured still had some of the most visually appealing offence of anyone in the company. He worked well with a consistent number of workers, and he was comically better than Jericho imo in their short PPV series in '10, with the matches being amongst some of Bourne's weakest and Jericho struggling to keep up being a key factor.



Saint Dick said:


> Christian's 2009 is better than any year Jericho's ever had so for that reason I'd put him above Jericho as a worker. Not by a whole lot though. I can't think of too many outstanding heel performances from Christian whereas Jericho has a bunch of good stuff as a babyface and as a heel. Not sure where the Jericho hate is coming from actually. He has some crummy matches to his name but so does everybody else. He's plenty good imo. The Mysterio series is a prime example of how good he can be. I don't see how there can be a strong argument for him being bad. He's a high level mic worker too.


I don't think anyone has called him bad, just that I think he's significantly less inspiring than is commonly thought, and that as a babyface worker he has very few performances I'd call 'very good' despite a number of years as a face worker. Even as a heel, I don't really connect with his work and I find his pacing and style to be more reliant on key spots, than actual nuances or subtle touches which add to a narrative. Not calling him a spotty worker per se, just that over the years I think the strength of his matches depended far more on a few isolated spots and bumps, than the actual body of a match, which is where people like Hardy, Masters and Christian for example pull away from him. I don't recall any discussion either about his mic work, so think that's a moot point since I don't think his speaking ability has ever really been questioned.

I just can't connect or become engaged in his work, and I don't find him the better performer in his best matches. That doesn't translate to, 'Jericho was carried', but rather where is Jericho making a match great specifically with his performance where you'd point to it as a showcase for him, over his opponent? E.G, Rey has the amazing Chavo GAB '04 match, and whilst I would praise Chavo for his performance, again I'd say it's one of Mysterio's best performances of the decade and would use that as an example of how peak Mysterio could put together a match of that calibre, with his opponent still doing their part and not to be confused as being merely along for the ride. With Jericho, I find his best performance to be vs HBK @ Mania 19, but HBK's dismal performance that night robs it of being one of Jericho's best matches, and thereafter I'm struggling to find examples where Jericho proves he can put together a match/performance that would lead to a great match, where he primarily would be the reason for.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

so basically finished Jericho's 96 run in the WCW (two matches left) and it was pretty poor, imo (besides that great match against Benoit)

WCW PPVs around this time seemd to be pretty average overall besides the Cruiserweight matches


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK- I think SS 2005, Raw the night after, and SVS 2008 vs Cena are prime examples of Jericho carrying an opponent with a really good-great performance. Add in Extreme Rules vs Rey as a match where Jericho was every bit as good as Rey. My thing is, Jericho should never be considered on the level of Eddie, Rey, Benoit, etc. But that doesn't mean he is just an above average guy. He was really, really good. I really dug him in the Souled Out match he had vs Rey and the Nitro match he had with Malenko as well. He's head and shoulders above guys like Triple H, Orton, and Edge, but not quite at that all time great level, just in my opinion. I actually enjoy him more than I do 2002-2010 HBK.

Also, minority opinion maybe, but I thought Jericho's baby face work and selling was a huge factor in his LMS match with Trips being a classic.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He's really good in the LMS as I recall, but I do feel HHH outclassed him that night and put in a shockingly good performance throughout the match which made me wish he could wrestle like that more often. I recall Jericho selling the ribwork very well and the build to his comeback being well laid out, but I took more away from HHH's assured performance in controlling Jericho and the extent he went to varying his offence to keep things progressing whilst maintaining a rigid focus on the ribs as being more particularly impressive.

I wouldn't say enjoying someone more than 2002-2010 HBK is terrific endorsement though, considering bar a few matches and performances HBK was bollocks during that time period.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> WOOLCOCK- I think SS 2005, Raw the night after, and SVS 2008 vs Cena are prime examples of Jericho carrying an opponent with a really good-great performance. Add in Extreme Rules vs Rey as a match where Jericho was every bit as good as Rey. My thing is, Jericho should never be considered on the level of Eddie, Rey, Benoit, etc. But that doesn't mean he is just an above average guy. He was really, really good. I really dug him in the Souled Out match he had vs Rey and the Nitro match he had with Malenko as well. He's head and shoulders above guys like Triple H, Orton, and Edge, but not quite at that all time great level, just in my opinion. I actually enjoy him more than I do 2002-2010 HBK.
> 
> Also, minority opinion maybe, but I thought Jericho's baby face work and selling was a huge factor in his LMS match with Trips being a classic.


Jericho has never been anything short of a good/great worker, IMO, but I'm right there with you when you say that he's not on the levels of Rey, Benoit and Eddie, but very few are. I feel that mechanically, Jericho is just very "by the books" - His striking isn't anything more than passable, his selling and bumping isn't anything to note, his "mat wrestling" isn't anything you wouldn't see from another guy and his execution of moves is exactly what you'd expect of someone who is billed as a top worker by the company. Mechanically, Jericho is good but pretty standard compared to the greats that we've fortunately been exposed to such as the names we mentioned, as well as the likes of Dustin and Christian for example. However, what makes Jericho that much better than the guys a 'tier' lower than him, so to speak, (names like Malenko, Ziggler, etc.) is his ability to add character to his matches, and that's what people like about him.

Also, funny you should mention the LMS seeing as I've got that lined up right after this ROH show that I'm watching now, and I too remember it for Jericho's fiery babyface performance, on top of the fantastic finish. I'll write what I think of it after I've rewatched it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> WCW PPVs around this time seemd to be pretty average overall besides the Cruiserweight matches


Pretty much. I actually put mt own comp together: (Not in date order due to ratio bollocks):



> Best Of WCW Cruiserweights on PPV (5 Discs)
> 
> All matches are taken from Live PPV DVD's (except where noted *)
> 
> ...


Not sure if i'm missing any essentials.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Not to derail the great Jericho debate that's going on but what the fuck



Meltzer said:


> Somebody thought Antonio sounded like the name of a guy who wasn't tough. Seriously. And he's in the main event in two weeks and somebody woke up and thought he had a pussy name so we have to change that.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I really hope I'm just hungover and misinterpreting that. Please tell me that doesn't mean they're changing Cesaro's name.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Starting to think the competency of management in WWE resembles the monkey writers of Mr Burns with every passing day.



Wilberforce said:


> I really hope I'm just hungover and misinterpreting that. Please tell me that doesn't mean they're changing Cesaro's name.


They've just removed 'Antonio', so he's just Cesaro now. Like Cher. Only able to leave more men with their jaws dropped.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't believe WWE actually changed his name to just "Cesaro" fpalm

Fans should just start chanting "AN-TON-IO, AN-TON-IO" during his matches in honor of his former great name. Although I don't feel Cesaro should be blamed for this nonsense as I can guaruntee he had nothing to do with it. 

My guess is that they changed it because Vince has this thing about baby faces being from other countries. He made Jericho and Benoit change their introduction from being "From Winnipeg" or "From Edmonton" to "From Tampa" or "From Atlanta". I think they felt Antonio sounded too foreign so It got cut off.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Starting to think the competency of management in WWE resembles the monkey writers of Mr Burns with every passing day.
> 
> 
> 
> They've just removed 'Antonio', so he's just Cesaro now. Like Cher. Only able to leave more men with their jaws dropped.


This is indeed the blorst of times. I mean seriously, I don't even understand how one person could think this is a good idea, let alone a fucking team of professionals.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember reading a dirtsheet (lol) report in 2007 that basically said that Vince wanted to do the same with Lashley. It's a bad idea, but a worse idea would be to continue keeping Cesaro out of the main event picture. Dude is over and made his own momentum. If this is the sacrifice he needs to make to become a star, then so be it.

In some ways, the topic of which worker "had the better performance" in a match is kind of silly. I don't watch Mysterio or Sheamus matches with "inferior" talent and think to myself that they are putting on a better performance and that's why they're so good. Instead what I see is that these guys work so well with any other wrestler and that's why they're great workers. And that's really what makes a ring general great; the ability to be so easy to work with that their opponent can have a good showing as well, even if their name is Kofi Kingston. It's not just about "outperforming" someone because that's such a vague term and it's not about wrestling circles around your opponent and making them look bad because that doesn't necessarily lead to a good match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think the name change is a bad thing. It's clearly a sign that they're going to push him, which is good. Fans were chanting "CESARO" the other night on Raw anyway.

My .02 on Jericho - he's definitely not in the class of a Rey/Eddie/Benoit like others have mentioned, but I think he's basically a shoe-in for a guy you can toss into a main event match (like an EC, triple threat, etc) to enhance it. I look at Jericho as more of an entertainer than a GREAT WORKER~! though he does have his moments (Rey feud). I think his character outshines his wrestling ability, but that's more a testament to his acting/charisma than a knock on his in-ring skills.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I remember reading a dirtsheet (lol) report in 2007 that basically said that Vince wanted to do the same with Lashley. It's a bad idea, but a worse idea would be to continue keeping Cesaro out of the main event picture. Dude is over and made his own momentum. If this is the sacrifice he needs to make to become a star, then so be it.
> 
> In some ways, the topic of which worker "had the better performance" in a match is kind of silly. I don't watch Mysterio or Sheamus matches with "inferior" talent and think to myself that they are putting on a better performance and that's why they're so good. Instead what I see is that these guys work so well with any other wrestler and that's why they're great workers. And that's really what makes a ring general great; the ability to be so easy to work with that their opponent can have a good showing as well, even if their name is Kofi Kingston. It's not just about "outperforming" someone because that's such a vague term and it's not about wrestling circles around your opponent and making them look bad because that doesn't necessarily lead to a good match.


Well said. We can try and analyze matches all we want and form opinions about who made the match great, but really, there is no possible way to accurately judge 100% of the time who out worked who in a match. Granted, if a match between Cesaro and Kofi Kingston is good, it's almost always going to be because of Cesaro because I just loathe the way Kingston works. But that's my opinion. That isn't a fact. There are plenty of people out there who could watch the same match and decide Kofi's nonsensical, contrived, weak looking offense was the reason the match was good. You just probably wouldn't find any of those people in this thread


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm thinking Cesaro's name change is a fantastic thing, could definitely see him as a top heel or face by the end of the year, hell he has every single quality to be the face of the company I personally think, but he's already 33 so I'm not sure about that one. 

Going to watch a few CESARO matches :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WCW PPV Matches DVD:

Disc 1

The Evolution to Pay-Per-View

Steel Cage Match for NWA World Heavyweight Championship
Ronnie Garvin vs. Ric Flair
Starrcade • November 26, 1987

United States Championship Match
Barry Windham vs. Dusty Rhodes
Great American Bash • July 10, 1988

​Tag Team Championship Match
​The Road Warriors vs. Sting & Dusty Rhodes
Starrcade • December 26, 1988

Hall of Fame Rivalry

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Chi-Town Rumble • February 20, 1989

​United States Championship Match
​Lex Luger vs. Brian Pillman
Halloween Havoc • October 28, 1989

​NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
​Ric Flair vs. Sting
Great American Bash • July 7, 1990

Disc 2

Everything to Gain

Steel Cage Match for WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Lex Luger vs. Barry Windham
Great American Bash • July 14, 1991

Light Heavyweight Championship Match
Jushin “Thunder” Liger vs. Brian Pillman
SuperBrawl II • February 29, 1992

​War Games
​Sting’s Squadron vs. The Dangerous Alliance
WrestleWar • May 17, 1992

Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal

Texas Death Match
Vader vs. Cactus Jack
Halloween Havoc • October 24, 1993

​​United States Championship Match
“Stunning” Steve Austin vs. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Bash at the Beach • July 17, 1994

​Career vs. Career Steel Cage Match for WCW World Heavyweight Championship
​Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair
Special Referee: Mr. T
Halloween Havoc • October 23, 1994

Disc 3

The Hostile Takeover

The Outsiders vs. Sting, Lex Luger & “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Bash at the Beach • July 7, 1996

​​No Disqualification Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Spring Stampede • April 6, 1997

​​Mask vs. Cruiserweight Championship Match
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio
Halloween Havoc • October 26, 1997

​Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Special Guest Referee: “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
Slamboree • May 17, 1998

​Cruiserweight Championship Match
​Chris Jericho vs. Juventud Guerrera
Special Guest Referee: Dean Malenko
Road Wild • August 8, 1998

WCW ​World Heavyweight Championship Match
​Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page
Halloween Havoc • October 25, 1998

Opportunity Knocks

​​WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
​​Jeff Jarrett vs. Booker T
Bash at the Beach • July 9, 2000

​Ladder Match for #1 Contender to Cruiserweight Championship
​3 Count vs. Jamie Knoble & Evan Karagias vs. The Jung Dragons
Starrcade • December 26, 2000

​Falls Count Anywhere Match for WCW World Heavyweight Championship
​Scott Steiner vs. Diamond Dallas Page
Greed • March 18, 2001

A Legendary Era

-----------------------------------------

So they completely fucked it up. I AM SURPRISED :side:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah the potential was so high for this. Disc 2 is fairly stacked minus the two DUDs in the beginning and end. Disc 3 is probably my favorite, but even that isn't that special. And Disc 1 is pretty damn weak.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anything worth a damn on the set is a fucking repeat. Half the matches have appeared on other sets AT LEAST once. Some multiple times. Rise & Fall of WCW and the Starrcade sets are the only WCW sets worth a damn.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If WWE did a 'worst Of WCW' set, we may get the 'best of' then. :side:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I watched Undertaker: The Streak on Netflix and wrote up a full review. However the full review is insanely long and in the interest of actually having someone read the review I'm going to have to split it up into a few parts. 

*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. "Superfly" Jimmy Snuka*
Snuka got in slightly more offense than a local jobber would. Basically the Undertaker beat him up for a while, Snuka tried to get a comeback going, Undertaker no sold it, and then gave him a Tombstone. I've seen plenty of 4 minute matches that were a lot less entertaining than this. Undertaker looked good and was doing offense that wasn't typical of a big man at the time. It's still a squash but an entertaining one. 
***

*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts*
I didn't think this was very good at all. Jake is playing what seems like a generic babyface which really doesn't seem to fit him very well. I mean he did an OK job trying to get the firing comeback going but for someone that gets called the master of ring psychology he ended working a really basic match. Undertaker getting up after a second DDT was pretty impressive though and really showed how much of a monster he was. Other than that there really isn't anything that stands out here.
**1/2* 

*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. Giant Gonzalez w/Harvey Whippleman *
I don't think a lot of us realize how close how close the Streak was to never happening because of this match. When looking at the storyline you could make the argument that Undertaker should have lost here. This wasn't the match that ended the feud and the were trying to make Undertaker look like he had met his match. It was just pure luck that Undertaker won by DQ. We were so close to seeing the whole streak just get ruined to build up to a Summerslam match.

I don't really want to talk about this very much. It was really boring. Gonzalez can't do anything in the ring and he can't bump so there is only so much that can actually happen. At one point he had a a headlock in that was longer than anything Randy Orton has ever done. The Undertaker tried and all the credit in this match goes to him. It wasn't the worst thing ever but in no way can this be considered a good match.
**1/4*

*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. King Kong Bundy w/Ted DiBiase *
The match wasn't even the primary focus of the first half of this. It was all about DiBiase having the earn and Undertaker trying to get it back. Eventually Kama leaves with the urn and the focus shifts to the match. Once the focus was all on the match I realized that maybe it wasn't the best idea. Since the urn was taken Undertaker lost his power and Bundy worked a control segment. And it was a terrible control segment. Bundy hit Undertaker with some terrible clotheslines. The guy just looks like he works so soft. And the match ended with a bodyslam and a clotheslines. So yeah, not very good. I would say the worst Streak match so far. And now that I've watched everything I can say that it is the worst Streak match period.
*3/4* *

*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel *
I had the Wrestlemania VHS set as a kid and I remember not liking this match all that much. I've done a complete 180 now as I loved watching it this time. The first few minutes were just a slugfest between Undertaker and Nash. They went right after each other and didn't let up. And Nash came out on top. He took it right to the Undertaker, didn't even have to cheat, and he beat him down. What followed was a control segment that, for me, really showed how good Nash can be as a heel. He beat the shit out of the Undertaker and was just so cocky about it. There was some sign of life from the Undertaker but it wasn't much. Nash then proceeded to hit him with the Jack Knife Power Bomb. 

Now that happened near the end of the match but what happened after that first power bomb was just amazing. Everyone is hoping for Undertaker to sit up. Now most heels he's in the ring with assume that there's no way this could happen. Not Nash, though. He taunted Undertaker and the crowd and goaded the Undertaker into getting back up. When he eventually got back up Nash just gave him another Power Bomb. Now at this point Nash thought he had the match. He went for a cover and Undertaker got up and choked him. Nash fought him down and you saw that he was a little nervous after the first few times of fighting Undertaker off. It was the first crack in his armor and it was far from the last. Undertaker eventually fought his way up but Nash got the upper hand. He look relieved as he got up and when he turned around he saw Undertaker was up again. At this point everything about Nash's appearance signified that he believed he was totally screwed. And he was. 

I loved the match and I loved how long it took the Nash's armor to crack. He was confident that he cold win easily until the very end. It was a great story and Nash couldn't have put the Undertaker over any better than he did here. It's really impressive how you can make someone look good when you get in 80% of the offense. 
****** 

_WWF Championship Match:_
*Psycho Sid(c) vs. The Undertaker *
Horrible. They both came in as babyfaces and that didn't help things at all. Both guys were trying to do the same exact thing in the ring and we ended up seeing 20+ minute brawl. The pacing was slow and I really couldn't figure out what they wanted to do other than just having two big guys fighting. The match was just too long to keep me interested. I feel like they could have had a really good match if they kept it between 10 and 15 minutes, but I guess you can't really do that as the main event of Wrestlemania. Oh and Bret Hart was involved a lot. I had a hard time sitting through this. 
**1/2*​

I'm just glad that it gets a lot better. Thought that Nash match was fantastic. I might be giving it a higher rating than everyone else but I was shocked at how much I liked it. I don't mind being the one to against the grain on it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nash: "Im the shit" 

I do really like the Taker/Diesel match TBH. Snake Eyes by Nash too!!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I loved Nash's tweener character right before departing for WCW. He'd only slap hands with someone wearing a black glove. :mark:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Wilberforce said:


> I really hope I'm just hungover and misinterpreting that. Please tell me that doesn't mean they're changing Cesaro's name.


I really don't get the fuss. Maybe it's because I spent the better part of the last decade watching indy wrestling, but guys having their name changed, modified, whatever, isn't a big deal. For me, getting used to calling him "Cesaro" instead of "Claudio" was a bigger transition. Toughen up 'E marks


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nash/Taker at mania is the shit, love that match 

I really have no interest in seeing any streak matches from the 90s par vs Kane and vs Diesal tbh


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

If I could add my two cents in on the whole Y2J debate, tbf Ive never been a HUGE y2j guy so some of my thoughts may be a tad subjective, however I truly believe the thing with Jericho like FLUX kind of alluded to a few pages back, he is very "by the book" My interpretation is he does everything ok/well but NOTHING great, or that make him stand out. You look at him, passable in most categorizes as a worker, but nothing that drives that "Good lord,that was tremendous feel" if that makes any sense

I never had the "Wow Jericho is in this match, has the chances to be Amazing"but thats me, strictly speaking in-ring as that what care most about


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^ I can see one saying that for his in ring skills but are you talking about his mic skills as well? If so, I disagree.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol yea I just added that last line after your response, yes strictly in-ring that post is about, However I always have had a problem with his early wwf Y2J stuff as well from a character/mic perspective. I always felt he tried TOO hard to be the cool heel/face smarks would love, I know most of the stuff in the AE hasnt aged well, but I specifically have also felt that about Jericho. I liked some of his WCW stuff from that area


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I thought he only used the "Come on babeh" and "Are you ready?" shtick in Japan because he couldn't speak Japanese, but he also used it in the WCW (in his early days at least, I'm currenty watching early 97 Jericho games). Kinda annoying.

Btw, were the matches normally that short in the WCW TV shows? There are so many matches on the card and most of them are not even five minutes long. Kinda makes it difficult for me to enjoy the Jericho matches although he's against Regal, Malenko and the likes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> In some ways, the topic of which worker "had the better performance" in a match is kind of silly. I don't watch Mysterio or Sheamus matches with "inferior" talent and think to myself that they are putting on a better performance and that's why they're so good. Instead what I see is that these guys work so well with any other wrestler and that's why they're great workers. And that's really what makes a ring general great; the ability to be so easy to work with that their opponent can have a good showing as well, even if their name is Kofi Kingston. It's not just about "outperforming" someone because that's such a vague term and it's not about wrestling circles around your opponent and making them look bad because that doesn't necessarily lead to a good match.


It's really not vague at all. I don't exactly look at *how much* better one wrestler was than another, because the wrestler could still perform poorly if the other is fucking atrocious. ''Wrestler A sucked but Wrestler B was god awful, so Wrestler A is good by default' isn't ever a part of my mindset. 'Outperforming' isn't some concrete term I use to compare one wrestler to another, but if one wrestler literally performed better than another......what better judge of good wrestlers is there than that? If Jericho wasn't as good in his best matches than Eddie, Benoit, the Rock and HHH, well then he literally was not as good in the match. Of course it would be a factor to judging wrestlers. Jericho's best performance doesn't match Finlay's [for a random number with no thought put into it] 30th best one; why on Earth would I think Jericho is even in his league? That doesn't make him shitty because Finlay is that fucking good, but clearly makes him not as good as Finlay. Same reason I don't think Wade Barrett isn't in Jericho's league because his best performance doesn't match Jericho's [again, random number] 30th. I don't even know what that last line means. Do you think I mean 'outperform' in kayfabe terms? How is a good performance automatically making a wrestler look bad. It's obvious ideal that everyone perform well in a match. I'm not an idiot who goes 'fuck yes Bourne might have been good but Regal turned him into suck because REGAL'.

There are obvious other factors/handicaps/advantages to performances like match length or gimmick or booking, etc. It's a much better judge than matches, though. Jericho would have not almost any of those best matches if he wasn't working with those guys. He really wasn't that impressive in, say, the Fall Brawl match with Eddie. NOW if Eddie worked with Rey and Rey outperformed Eddie, that's not a reason to call Eddie not that good, but it's an reason to call him not as good as Rey (or Rey during that year, Rey in WCW, etc). It's not as if being outperformed always means you weren't good. Jericho was good in the HHH LMS to the point where I could understand saying he was better than Helsmley. He was good in the Rcok match at No Mercy, he was good in, say, IDK the best Benoit match. The other guy was just so much better and was the main reason the match was what it was. I cannot remember a match other than GAB v. Michaels where I thought 'man, Jericho is the best guy in here, making the match awesome'. Again, that doesn't make him not good, but it sure as fuck clears him away from great. WOOLCOCK brought up Chris Masters and I absolutely think 2010 Masters is a better wrestler than Jericho ever was. Masters having good matches with any scrub is a positive, but not the deciding factor. Wrestler X carrying the Miz can still not be as good as Wrestler Y being outperformed by Flair in a world title match. In Jericho's case I wasn't comparing him to anybody directly, he just doesn't have those stand out performances. Or if he does they are sprinkled lightly over a 20 year career. So I didn't see how he's anything above 'good'. Does he really do anything any good wrestler can't do? He's been fucking garbage for sure, but I'm not trying to argue he's a garbage wrestler overall; I'm trying to argue he's not a really really really good one. If everyone thought the same I'd never bring it up but he's massively overrated to the point where you see him in several best worker lists. There's a lot of 'he's not as good as Eddie/Rey/Benoit'....I don't think he's as good as a Christian or Cena or Matt Hardy or Tajiri or even Sting or Henry or Punk. I could go down a tier or two.

What are honest-to-God GREAT Jericho performances? Ones that will make me go, 'yeah I was underrating him or forgetting how good he was'. Gimme matches and dates and I'll watch 'em.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DoubtGin said:


> Btw, were the matches normally that short in the WCW TV shows? There are so many matches on the card and most of them are not even five minutes long. Kinda makes it difficult for me to enjoy the Jericho matches although he's against Regal, Malenko and the likes.


Tis the AE/Monday Night Wars for ya. Both shows were all about super short matches and tons of segments in an attempt to hold the viewers interest for as long as possible. I mean, who the fuck wants to sit through 10+ minutes of WRESTLING on a WRESTLING SHOW when they could see MULTIPLE matches + some shitty "comedy" segments in the same amount of time? 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WOW that WCW match listing blows. How many fucking sets do we need to have a Flair vs. Steamboat match on it? We all know the series is great, just stop it. In fact if I'm being blunt the confirmed releases so far for this year sound pretty horrible:

_Signature Sounds: The Music of WWE_ - Who the fuck wants this? Music on dvd?

_Ultimate Warrior _- The guy barely had enough decent matches to make one disc. Now you want three? NO.

_Best of RAW: After the Show _- This one has potential but it seems like it's gonna be a bunch of random shit to fill 3 discs. We'll see.

_Greatest Wrestling Factions _- There's been Tag Team dvds (Allied Powers, Road Warriors, DX, etc.), Greatest Families of Wrestling, and a Four Horseman set. What more are they gonna cover here? It has potential with match listing but this company never fulfills that potential anymore these days.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> _Best of RAW: After the Show _- This one has potential but it seems like it's gonna be a bunch of random shit to fill 3 discs. We'll see.


I was hoping for some Dark matches maybe, whichever ones were filmed. Owen Hart/Kurt Angle maybe.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty sure all/most dark matches are filmed 

Dont give a shit about the WCW listing since I should be able to watch those on the network anyway


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

DoubtGin said:


> I thought he only used the "Come on babeh" and "Are you ready?" shtick in Japan because he couldn't speak Japanese, but he also used it in the WCW (in his early days at least, I'm currenty watching early 97 Jericho games). Kinda annoying.
> 
> Btw, were the matches normally that short in the WCW TV shows? There are so many matches on the card and most of them are not even five minutes long. Kinda makes it difficult for me to enjoy the Jericho matches although he's against Regal, Malenko and the likes.


WCW loved putting short matches on TV. I watched a random episode of WCW World Wide on youtube a couple months ago and they managed to have like 6 matches in 44 minutes. I think that's why I used to love it so much as a kid. I remember I badly wanted to order WCW Sin (or however they decided to spell it) because it had 11 matches on it. Like that was the main reason why I wanted to see the show. Then I ordered the show, fell asleep on it, and the tape ran out while it was recording so I never saw the main event  


On the topic of Jericho I think he's really really good. I will say that he might get a little more credit in the ring than he deserves because of how good he is a character. I think people look at him, see that he has good matches and they want to be able to say that he's the greatest at everything. 
And he is great just maybe not as great as he gets credit for. Not that I have a list of best wrestlers ever but I'll use this as an example. He gets credited as being #10 on the list when he's probably more like #20. That's about as far as I'm willing to go with calling him overrated.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> My recollection of late WCW is pretty hazy, but I wouldn't disagree as a character he shined in that period. *Again, how well he was able to inject that character into his matches to add some unique touches, whilst also piecing together a good-great match in between the character moments remains to be seen.* He really should never be in a brawl ever again though, as he simply lacks the offence and ability to work snug to convey the necessary hatred that drives the atmosphere in a brawl.


Tremendously well (speaking strictly on 97-98 heel work. All the spots I mentioned occurred during matches. He wanted to wrestle with the Cruiserweight belt on against Juvi during Bash at the Beach (I think that's the one), and did so until Juvi hit him with a rolling Sobat to the gut, and Jericho had to take a second laying on the mat before deciding to finally take it off and give it to Nick Patrick (funny stuff). Same with "playing dead" on the outside - something I think Eddie took from him during his glorious face run in WWE. Jericho is laid out, eyes closed, and then timidly raises his head, checking to see that the ref isn't looking, and goes back to playing possum and waits to be counted out. All of that just goes back to his ability to play a character and constantly seek to incorporate it into his matches. 



> I'd likely still have Jericho above Malenko (speaks moreso of my apathy to Malenko outside of sub ten minute matches where he's typically far better), but I wouldn't disagree with this assessment. I feel he has the reputation and performance skill to convey this impression he's one of the better workers on the roster, but when you analyse and pay attention to his matches, I find his layout and general work to be far less impressive than a number of his contemporaries.


Minus the Malenko bit, I agree. Malenko isn't really a face..or a heel for that matter. It kind of goes back to that bit I said about thinking of him as a Japanese wrestler - he's largely _neutral_ in the ring, and not heel or face in the traditional North American dynamic of wrestling storytelling. On a technical level, Malenko surpasses him, Eddie, and Benoit for me. In fact, it was during their time in Japan that Eddie and Chris learned a hell of a lot from Malenko, who was a vet in Japan when they made their tour, and all three were great friends outside of the ring as well. 



> Masters was incredible during his 2010-11 Superstars run, and completely re-evaluated my stance on him after his dismal first run. In many respects it's a crying shame his untrustworthy attitude in his first run robbed him of any substantial place on the card second time around, because he was a top three worker during that time period and deserved at least a prominent midcard run. Still, his selling was better than any Jericho match I can recall, he timed his hope spots and comebacks with precision, his offence was varied and adjusted to reflect the workover (hitting one legged samoan drops for example), he worked numerous creative spots to add variety to his work, he was surprisingly over consistently for a mpere curtain jurker on Superstars and he just typified a face worker to me. I wouldn't argue Jericho would always have more control of a crowd, but how much of that depends on his mic skills and longevity with WWE? Masters was exiled for nearly three years, before returning and being permanently stuck on Superstars, with little to no character or feud development, and stuck basically working good-great matches weekly. He got impressive matches out of Chavo, Ziggler, Swagger alongside the stellar Mcintyre series (though I wouldn't call the former three matches carryjobs, even if Masters was the better performer).


To be quite honest, I haven't seen Masters SS run from that time period. That said, he has never stuck out to me as a worker that even approaches the level of the guys we're discussing. I'm all for changing my mind, but I don't see it from here. 



> Hardy's run from '06-'08 imo is a better body of work than anything Jericho has ever accomplished. Again, he was a superb seller and was a tremendous foil for heels in singles or tag affairs. His offence was superb, his timing and comebacks were well earnt with a strong structure and he continually remained over whilst adapting from midcard runs, to working as the ECW champion and working just as well as the underdog to Henry, as he was as 'the ace' feeding Bourne offence and making him look credible in their title match. His work in the Edge series demonstrates he was far more suited to blood feuds than Jericho, with the Summerslam and Unforgiven matches vs Eddge being far far far better than the Edge/Jericho series in '10, and despite Edge being better than usual in the Hardy series, it's not like was ever a very good worker so Hardy being able to give Edge his best match speaks volumes of Hardy's performance. The 6/22/07 Finlay match from Smackdown for me is better than any Jericho match, though I accept I'm likely not going to be in the majority on that one. For me, he just does the simple aspects far more than Jericho, and just has an overall greater sense of timing and nuance to his babyface work.


I can't see the Finlay match measuring up to WM against Shawn, or the series with Rey, or his match with Juvi from SBVIII. Hardy - and a lot of guys from that era in the E - were very unoriginal in their moveset, counter sequences, lack of attention to detail, and variety in their performances. I can't recall a single MH match that closes in on the ones we've both mentioned from Jericho. 



> Christian, as said again surpassed any period of Jericho's work with his '09-10 run on ECW/Smackdown. His babyface work was tremendous, and he produced great matches with everyone from Swagger to Regal to Dreamer to Tatsu to Zach Ryder.


I watched the Swagger match from 2/24/09 last night, and thought it was somewhere in the ***1/2-3/4 range. It was a _very_ standard Christian match, save a couple "added effect" spots thrown in because it's the main even for the Title. It's made for TV. For me, Christian doesn't have the necessary charisma or personality to be a great face. Not completely a knock on him because playing heel is so much damn easier than playing face. For me, he rides the line of being pathetic. Not that I'm a Christian hater because I thought the 8/9/13 Smackdown ME with ADR was the 4th or 5th best match all year in the WWE (re-watched it, and it's still gold even though I don't like ADR as much as I did then). Back to the Swagger match, I dug Christian taking the bump off the apron, but as is usually the case, it was lacking not in it's execution, but in it's planning. It was just a shoulder tackle. Love the bump, didn't care for how they got there. Christian does Jericho's signature dive spot though, which is pretty funny (bounce to the middle rope inside the ring and dive over the adjacent ropes for a Crossbody or Dropkick). Not that Jericho invented it (he picked it up in Mexico when he was Corazón de León way back in 1992-93), but I'd wager that's where Christian got it. Also don't care for most any flying strike or crossbody from the middle rope, something Christian is synonymous with. Soar where eagles dare, or don't bother at all for me. It sort of sums up Christian for me - It's doing something kind of big, but not big enough to really matter, leave an impression, or create a moment. A sort of "That was ok, I guess. Could've been better." And let's not get into the atrocity that was Christian's TNA run, which was deplorable, and not something I think you could blame on TNA creative, booking, or whomever else. 





> The best had to be the callback to the Smackdown title change, with Christian teasing the same crossbody, only to cling to the ropes and transition into a sunset flip for a nearfall. It's something like that, which very few would even consider, that distinguishes him from the others and it's why I can't agree Jericho's work has more nuance to it than Christian. He bumps better, sells better, pieces together better structures, adjusts and varies his offence to the situation better...just does everything Jericho does far better, minus the charisma. But there's more to being a babyface worker than just mere charisma. I agree as a heel he's far less impressive (no surprise the Christian/Orton series drops off substantially when Christian goes heel, and Orton remains face), but that doesn't detract from being a better babyface worker, by quite a distance to boot.


I've seen Christian use the that exact spot on multiple occasions (tries to get the Crossbody, fights off opponent, and uses the Sunset Flip instead) and for me, it's sort of 'old hat' Christian. I mean, most of Christian's matches have a very "same-y" feel to them. Going back to the Swagger match, he uses the bump into the stairs to start selling the arm. It's just very plain for me, taking a common spot and trying to sell an injury from it. Should've been something more to work such a hard sell for the rest of the match. Great sell on commentary, but wasn't feeling it. Also, didn't really sell it when he takes offense (used the arm a couple times after that to slap and clothesline/running forearm Swagger down for his comeback). 



> Bourne, well again like Masters the majority of his run was contained to ECW and later sub ten minute RAW matches or Superstars appearances. He's a better bumper than Ziggler for me, but unlike Ziggler he is able to channel his bumping and segue it into his comebacks and thereby sell better throughout the match. Ziggler for me, is a very good bumper but a poor seller, because he very rarely actually sells in matches bar bumping big for key offence, and his matches struggle to retain any heat during the middle as a result. Bourne adjusted well from ROH, and refined his style to build to his comebacks, which whilst more simple and structured still had some of the most visually appealing offence of anyone in the company. He worked well with a consistent number of workers, and he was comically better than Jericho imo in their short PPV series in '10, with the matches being amongst some of Bourne's weakest and Jericho struggling to keep up being a key factor.



I agree with most everything here on Bourne, but like Masters, I don't think you can take 1-1 1/2 years and compare it to the longevity and consistency Jericho brought to the table. Jericho's been in the game now for over 20 years, and I don't think anyone but Christian and maybe Hardy has the resume as a singles wrestler to be comparable.

And as a Jericho fan in general, I don't think you need to apologize for him being a spotty wrestler - he was! It's his biggest weakness in the ring, in both good and bad ways. He has some of the best and most memorable spots (character spots, promo lines, signature moves) and always accompanies it with moments where you shake your head. Like a great back-and-forth sequence that ends with him throwing his hands up too early to work a Spin Wheel Kickfpalm. Sometimes I find myself watching him and saying "fortheloveofgod WHY?!" and other times doubled over in laughter, marking out, or just grinning ear-to-ear with respect.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Have you seen the Matt vs Edge cage match? Beats a ton of good stuff that Jericho has had


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Disagree with a large portion of that lol. Honestly can't think of any reason to put Jericho over the likes of Christian as being a face or Finlay being... awesome. I don't hold Jericho in very high regard at all. Can't think of many truly "great" matches involving the guy, and any I can think of weren't really BECAUSE of Jericho (as in he wasn't the driving force of them being so great).


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Best John Cena matches?

anyone like the tlc with edge from 06?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Going back to WCW tags, i need to check out some Rhodes/Windham matches. I remember a really good one against Williams/Gordy i think.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Best John Cena matches?
> 
> anyone like the tlc with edge from 06?


Think most people here dislike that match.

Best Cena matches off top of head:

vs Punk MITB '11 
vs Punk Raw '13
vs HBK WM23
vs HBK Raw '07
vs Lesnar ER '12
vs Umaga RR '07 (though Cal would disagree)
vs JBL JD '05

I'm sure I'm missing big ones but yeah.


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## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I_Was_Awesome said:


> Best John Cena matches?
> 
> anyone like the tlc with edge from 06?


Cena v. Michaels _ Raw_ 60 Minute Iron Man in London '06 or '07 

Cena v. Brock Lesnar _Extreme Rules 2012_ (good IMO, bu most say great)

Cena v. Punk _Night of Champions 2012_


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## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Batista LMS is probably in my top 10 Cena matches. If not it's pretty close. Either way it's worth watching. Cena/HHH NoC '08 is another great match that hasn't been mentioned.


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## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm also struggling to think of good performances re Jericho. The only things that truly stick out, and readily available to memory, are his bad performances (and, when he's bad, he can be downright atrocious). From the little I've seen off his CMLL run circa 93-95, it just might be his worst stint. There's a match w/ Ultimo Dragon Vs ***** Casas & Dandy that flat-out sucks wind; instead of flashy work, every pair-off reverts to a basic headlock for minutes on end. It's terrible. His latest return's also been very miss, considering he wasn't given the worst material to work with. That series of matches with Punk seemingly waned in quality until we hit the turd that was their Payback drivel.


I do think he's a great character man and he knows how to put himself over. While I wouldn't say I actively loved him, I didn't at all mind him and could see why others enjoyed the wrestler so much. He was pretty infectious during the early part of his WWF career with Stephanie et al, and had some really good matches with Mysterio only a few years ago that people talk up. But, honestly, he's a guy that many love and place amongst or higher than his WCW compatriots (Eddie, Rey, Malenko) yet when you look back on why he's loved you just can't really put your finger on anything. Regardless, though, even if we're given a list of some great Jericho performances they're not going to much change his placing. He's not bad, by any means, but I also don't think he's close to being great.




The Hitman said:


> Going back to WCW tags, i need to check out some Rhodes/Windham matches. I remember a really good one against Williams/Gordy i think.






edit: is my sig coming up as animated or as a single frame?


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## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Cena/Batista LMS is probably in my top 10 Cena matches. If not it's pretty close. Either way it's worth watching. *Cena/HHH NoC '08* is another great match that hasn't been mentioned.


I couldn't remember the event, but if I remember correctly, HHH got a clean win in that one. If this is the same one I'm thinking of, I agree


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Best Cena Matches

1. Vs Lesnar ER
2. Vs Punk MitB 2011
3. Vs JBL JD
4. Vs Umaga RR
5. Vs Punk Raw 2013
6. Vs Danielsom SS 2013
7. Vs Punk NoC 2012
8. Vs Batista LMS ER
9. Vs Jericho SS
10. Vs HBK WM

Special mention to his match with Rey on Raw 2011, vs Jericho SVS 2008, vs Michaels Raw 2007, vs Jericho Raw 2005 Loser Leaves Town, vs Orton NWO, vs Eddie Latino Heat Parking Lot Brawl, with HBK vs Batista/Taker NWO 2007, and vs Henry MitB 2013.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

vs Batista SummerSlam 08, vs Orton NWO '08 and vs HHH NOC '08 were all good too. His 08 was pretty good in retrospect.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Top 10 Cena is fuzzy outside of vs Punk and vs Lesnar being the top 2 at the full 5


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Funnyfaces, Yeah, or another Mark Henry fan, can I get a list of the 10 or so best Mark Henry matches in your opinion? I need more Henry in my life, I'm rewatching his No DQ match with Punk on Raw and it's just glorious.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best Cena matches:

vs. Punk MITB 2011
vs. Punk RAW 2013
vs. Michaels RAW 2007
vs. Lesnar ER 2012
vs. Bryan SS 2013
vs. Punk SS 2011
vs. Umaga RR 2007
vs. Jericho SvS 2008
vs. Punk NoC 2012
vs. Angle NM 03

I know I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, but dude has a real strong catalog. Good Cena is amazing. Shame that Bad Cena is below the Sarkodie-Mensah line.

Favorite Mark Henry matches:

vs. Punk 4/2/12
vs. Bryan Smackdown Cage 2011
vs. Punk No DQ
vs. Big Show Vengeance
vs. Hardy NM 08
vs. Orton NoC 11
vs. Mysterio (the one where Henry does the GOAT WSS. I think it was in January)
vs. Hardy on ECW TV
vs. Sheamus SS 2011
vs. Undertaker SD

Honestly, your best bet is to watch short Mark Henry exhibitions, because that's where the real gems lie. His matches with Evan Bourne were golden for instance. Or watch him crush John Morrison or Tajiri. Or even watch him annihilate Booker T in 2003 or Lashley. And can't forget about his match with Finlay at Armageddon 2008. OR his 4-Man Gauntlet on Main Event last year.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Best Cena matches:
> 
> vs. Punk MITB 2011
> vs. Punk RAW 2013
> ...



Thanks man that's exactly what I needed. It's snowing like crazy here so I'll have all night and all day tomorrow to do nothing but watch wrestling, watching lots of Henry seems a good way to start.(Y)


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## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Best John Cena matches:

1. vs. Punk - Money in the Bank 2011
2. vs. Lesnar - Extreme Rules 2012
3. vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 23
4. vs. Umaga - Royal Rumble 2007
5. vs. Punk - Night of Champions 2012
6. vs. Punk - WWE Raw 2/25/2013
7. vs. Mysterio - WWE Raw 7/25/2011
8. vs. Bryan - Summerslam 2013
9. vs. Punk - Summerslam 2011
10. vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 22


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Have you seen the Matt vs Edge cage match? Beats a ton of good stuff that Jericho has had


Typed a larger review for it, but my computer crashed. Here were the highlights:


Hardy doesn't sell hard enough that he wants to kill Edge. Not aggressive enough, and could be a touch more stiff.
Sluggish pace for most of it without much setup for the big stuff.
Steel cage doors are stupid.
Hardy's wrestling punch is excellent.
Headlock follow-through on the back suplex was nice - should've been punching Edge before he heeled out.
Didn't feel like a cage match for most of it except Edge's attempts to escape early on. Only the powerbomb and some end of the match stuff did the stip justice.
Mostly typical WWE cage match.
For all the value-added suff - Lita, blood feud, 20+ minutes, steel cage, ppv - it was sort of lacking.

***1/2


----------



## DCR (Aug 9, 2013)

I just ordered 5 more DVDs

Y2J Documentary (already seen it)
Best of Nitro
History of IC Title/WHC/WWE Title

Good/Bad Purchases?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Most of you guys are underrating the raw 2011 match vs. Mysterio greatly, match is 10-5 IMO


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Most of you guys are underrating the raw 2011 match vs. Mysterio greatly, match is 10-5 IMO



It would have been #11 on my list, I desperately wanted it to be top 10 but I couldn't find any that I'd bump in favor of it. Major bias alert, but I'm a HUGE fan of his brawl with Eddie too and think it's easily in his top 15.

I'm going to watch Owen/Davey on Raw now. What a classic, easily a top 5 Raw match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Typed a larger review for it, but my computer crashed. Here were the highlights:
> 
> 
> Hardy doesn't sell hard enough that he wants to kill Edge. Not aggressive enough, and could be a touch more stiff.
> ...


Disagree, but thanks for trying it out (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My memory of Cena/Umaga is soo fuzzy


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Disagree, but thanks for trying it out (Y)


Where did you have it, out of curiosity? Tbh, I don't remember the feud very well (wasn't watching WWE at the time), but I'd have thought Hardy would be wanting to get after Edge. That's why I brought up the headlock spot - why just continue holding him without peppering his face with punches? No DQ and all that? There were requisite high spots, but they sort of came out of nowhere, without either having to "fight" to get it. For me, Hardy's lack of aggression and selling his anger was really noticeable at the end. I just didn't get the sense in his face or body language that hurting Edge was a burning desire, meriting him to walk away from several opportunities to walk out and win.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Where did you have it, out of curiosity? Tbh, I don't remember the feud very well (wasn't watching WWE at the time), but I'd have thought Hardy would be wanting to get after Edge. That's why I brought up the headlock spot - why just continue holding him without peppering his face with punches? No DQ and all that? There were requisite high spots, but they sort of came out of nowhere, without either having to "fight" to get it. For me, Hardy's lack of aggression and selling his anger was really noticeable at the end. I just didn't get the sense in his face or body language that hurting Edge was a burning desire, meriting him to walk away from several opportunities to walk out and win.


From my UF 2005 review 



Spoiler:  Hardy vs Edge



Match 5: Matt Hardy vs Edge
HOLY SHIT I’M PUMPED FOR THIS!! Somehow I haven’t seen this but they had a 4 minute match at SS that was awesome, so a 20 minute steel cage match will be :mark:. wow, what a fucking match this was, I left me in awe of how incredible it was. At this point, it is #2 on my 2005 MOTY list. Rarely does a wrestling match cause me to put down whatever I’m doing and JUST watch the match, usually only stuff like Eddie/JBL and Taker/HBK can do that. Of course the story of this match was phenomenal, we all know that it might be the best storyline of 2005, but a #2 MOTY? I wasn’t expecting that AT ALL. Loved the ending so fucking much, as it fit the situation perfectly. The biggest legdrop I have EVER seen, it was so bad ass and was an awesome moment for Hardy, would say that this is his best singles match of all time, top 5 easily for edge, it was just a fucking clinic from the beginning to the end. ****1/2


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Please watch skins, legit or near five star match. Ending isn't stupid, don't understand all the ruckus and commotion over it. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...standing-match-for-the-wwe-championship_sport


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Edge/Hardy cage match is the bomb. Strong candidate for Edge's best match, and Matt's too obviously.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Please watch skins, legit or near five star match. Ending isn't stupid, don't understand all the ruckus and commotion over it.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...standing-match-for-the-wwe-championship_sport


lol Ive seen it before, just do not remember MOST if not any, just an image of a bloody cena is popping in my head atm

Yea I'll give it a watch now,not doing anything else


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena/Umaga sucks


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS said:


> lol Ive seen it before, just do not remember MOST if not any, just an image of a bloody cena is popping in my head atm
> 
> Yea I'll give it a watch now,not doing anything else


Yeah, watch it. It's right up there with HHH/Jericho as far as LMS matches go and I'd have it in Cena's top 3 ever along with MitB '11 and ER '12. Personal favorite of mine for sure. Umaga was fucking awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I absolutely love Cena/Umaga LMS, but I also think the I Quit match he had with JBL was absolutely stellar, if a but contrived at parts. There was some fantastic brawling there. Ending was a tad anti climactic too, but still, what a war.


Speaking of JBL, does anyone have a working link to his bull rope match with Eddie? I can't find it anywhere


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Funnyfaces, Yeah, or another Mark Henry fan, can I get a list of the 10 or so best Mark Henry matches in your opinion? I need more Henry in my life, I'm rewatching his No DQ match with Punk on Raw and it's just glorious.


IDK about top ten, but watch:

v. Hardy 8/19/08, + house show from Austria (IDR date)
v. Finlay 9/16/08, 11/4/08

all are excellent and would be definite contenders for his top ten. Have you the Undertaker match from 2/10/06 where he takes the best steel step bump of all time yet? Also watch every match he had with Rey in 06. And v. Benoit May 06 where he does the greatest crossface reversal of all time. It's fucking horrible he got injured in 06, he was on fire that year. There's a real good match with Jericho in 2004 before he also got injured but that might not be on any stream site any more. Henry was the best Raw guy of 2003, most likely. Good matches with everyone (Goldberg match rules, prob Raw MOTY even if that is saying almost nothing) and the best guy in tags. I'm not even going to bother talking about his 2011.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Please watch skins, legit or near five star match. Ending isn't stupid, don't understand all the ruckus and commotion over it.


Doesn't really drag it down for me terribly, but Armando used a much more heavy, solid weapon to unscrew the turnbuckle than the turnbuckle itself. The thought process is 'why not just give Umaga the screw thingy?'


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK about top ten, but watch:
> 
> v. Hardy 8/19/08, + house show from Austria (IDR date)
> v. Finlay 9/16/08, 11/4/08
> ...


Best steel step bump of all time? This I HAVE to see, I thought Foley was the Golden God of the step bump. As far as I know he invented taking it in your knee/thigh and flipping over it onto the concrete.

Added those to my list, though I'll be honest the Finlay ones are getting priority because FINLAY.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I`ve never seen Umaga/Cena LMS


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I guess bumping TO the steps and ON the steps are two different things. OK, so it's the best steep steps from Irish whip bump of all time, at least. (pretty sure it was an irish whip)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I guess bumping TO the steps and ON the steps are two different things. OK, so it's the best steep steps from Irish whip bump of all time, at least. (pretty sure it was an irish whip)


Yea, I've always liked that about Foleys move set, he decided it made no sense to take the steps with your shoulder (even though it looks great) because if someone threw you into some steps you'd hit your leg into them, and he added the flip to add impact. But Henry football tackling some steel steps off an Irish whip sounds excellent.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought the Lesnar/Punk steel step spot early in their match was really damn good. Of course, nothing beats a Sheamus Irish Curse on the stairs :lol

Owen/Davey rules. Owen's 97 is stacked like crazy! Don't know how it stacks up to the GOAT years like Benoit's 2004, Austin's 2001, and Punk's 2012, but it's a high level year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought the Lesnar/Punk steel step spot early in their match was really damn good. Of course, nothing beats a Sheamus Irish Curse on the stairs :lol
> 
> Owen/Davey rules. Owen's 97 is stacked like crazy! Don't know how it stacks up to the GOAT years like Benoit's 2004, Austin's 2001, and Punk's 2012, but it's a high level year.



I will pimp Owen/Vader ONO 1997 until the day I die. One of my favorite Owen matches and maybe my favorite Vader singles match in WWE (along with SS 96')


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

I feel that Christian/Orton is heavily overrated here in terms of both story and match quality.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Henry/Goldberg is my Raw MOTY of that year as well, jaw droppingly good,


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Fully Loaded 2000 is a great PPV.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

For the guy who asked.








> Doesn't really drag it down for me terribly, but Armando used a much more heavy, solid weapon to unscrew the turnbuckle than the turnbuckle itself. The thought process is 'why not just give Umaga the screw thingy?'


I think that's just overly detailed, I mean who'd notice it? I don't even remember the thing used to unscrew the turnbuckle, what was it?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

DCR said:


> I just ordered 5 more DVDs
> 
> Y2J Documentary (already seen it)
> Best of Nitro
> ...


If you live in the US and can get the Network I feel like any DVD would be a bad purchase.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Didn't watch Cena/Orton on Monday so I figured I'd give it look now since I got nothing going on. Actually thought it was very solid. Pretty much their normal formula match with finisher kickouts at the end but it had some energy to it. Definitely enjoyed it more than their two recent PPV matches. Helped that the crowd cared about what they were doing this time. Top rope DDT from Orton was a dope spot, made even better by his reaction. I've been one of Randy's biggest critics for a while now but he's looked sharp so far this year, I'll give him that.

Also checked out Sheamus/Ryback from last week's SmackDown as recommended by Cody. If you're in the mood for something short this is choice. I'm not exaggerating when I say this was really fucking good. Sheamus against big men just works. Easily one of Ryback's best performances and singles matches.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

Hey guys will the wwe censor chris benoit on the network?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Benoit matches will be on the Network.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

A bit off topic, I used to pronounce Benoit's name as Benitt rather than Benwaa, seemed more right. Is that his name is actually said like that or did it catch on because of commentators?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Little late on this, but I think one of the top tier Cena matches that wasn't mentioned was one of the other RAW affairs against HBK. 1/12/09 is the date. Incredible match, moreso because of Shawn's performance though.

Benoit has always been pronounced like that. Most people around where I live tend to pronounce it Benoyt (because there was a kid I went to school that had the last name). Goofs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Also checked out Sheamus/Ryback from last week's SmackDown as recommended by Cody. If you're in the mood for something short this is choice. I'm not exaggerating when I say this was really fucking good. Sheamus against big men just works. Easily one of Ryback's best performances and singles matches.


The man doesn't lie. It's so prime.

Still need to watch that awesome tag from RAW now that I think about it. Other things got in the way. And some shouldn't have been viewed. Ugh, my time management sometimes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Was it an ACH match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A large chunk of NWO 2005 is a culprit. If anyone can watch that show in one sitting, they can't be killed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


>


Thanks mate. : Was going to ask about Austin In WCW too!!!


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

SKINS said:


> My memory of Cena/Umaga is soo fuzzy


It's a five star match, brother. WWE's Top 3 match of the decade.



SMITTY said:


> Cena/Umaga sucks


FUCK OFF



Alim said:


> I`ve never seen Umaga/Cena LMS


THEN WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena Vs Umaga is great.

It's just not as great as Cena's MOTY against Shawn at Wrestlemania the same year .

John Cena in 2007 :mark:.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Please watch skins, legit or near five star match. Ending isn't stupid, don't understand all the ruckus and commotion over it.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...standing-match-for-the-wwe-championship_sport





Saint Dick said:


> Yeah, watch it. It's right up there with HHH/Jericho as far as LMS matches go and I'd have it in Cena's top 3 ever along with MitB '11 and ER '12. Personal favorite of mine for sure. Umaga was fucking awesome.





Chismo said:


> It's a five star match, brother. WWE's Top 3 match of the decade.


My thoughts on the match brothers



> Saw this right before I went to bed, Yea I forgot most of it, and it was MUCH better than I recall alittle of. I vaguely remember it being good, but something bothering me ? IDK, but thought this was excellent, and better than Michaels/Cena mania which Ive had MOTY for that year for years. Loved the attacking and working the ribs/low abdominal by Umaga. The punches Ive seen in this were some of the best Ive seen in WWE in a VERY long time, the looking and delivering of some of those clubs were excellent.Ok so from what I'm gather and saw, the thing that put ppl off, is during the end Umaga"s manager gives him the turn buckle to use vs. Cena, but are upset because he had a wrench and was far more dangerous ? Well I mean your right but it didnt really bother me tbh. My only small little grip, and it corrected itself about as I remember Umaga was suppose to be a "unmovable monster" who can go down, I wondered why he would sell some and no sell others ? Specifically I'm speaking when Cena clubs him w/ the TV monitors, he didnt really sell it at all, just looked dizzy for for 5 seconds but then ups and adams. But yea only thing I'm wondering
> 
> Excellent stuff, and nobody will read this because I'm not a select few :argh:


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## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I read it SKINS.

I just assumed Armando told Umaga to kill Cena with the turnbuckle because... It's cool?

IDK. The finish is awesome, fuck you guys .


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it really doesnt bother me, just view it as a wrestler listening to his manager


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## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I really need to rewatch Umaga/Cena as I just rewatched HHH/Jericho yesterday and whilst I can fully believe Cena possibly putting in a better babyface performance than Jericho, no matter how good Umaga may have been, I struggle to see him working over Cena better than Triple H worked over Jericho - HHH's performance was just extraordinary, something I just realised on yesterday's rewatch. Plus (from what I can remember) the Umaga/Cena match didn't warrant such a brutal, violent match type as Hunter/Jericho did (although I may be wrong) and I loved that the Fully Loaded match was entirely based off the heel fighting for his wife's pride and the face fighting for his own. It was weird in the sense that when you read that, it seems like much more of a face'ish thing to do what Hunter did, but the dynamic completely worked.

So yeah, what I'm trying to say is that I need to watch Youmanaga/Johnboy to see if it topples HHH/Jericho, because I really do struggle to see it doing so.

SKINS, you said you had HBK/Cena Mania as MOTY before you watched Cena/Umaga, what do you think of Batista/Taker and/or HBK/Cena on Raw? Because from what I see, those two are generally considered MOTY over HBK/Cena Mania.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rewatch it man, I think its much better than the fl 00 LMS IMO, Cena was marvelous,

Havent seen it in a few months, but I remember LOVING taker/batista, probably would only put the Michael's and Punk streak matches over it. You know I love those slugfests.Before rewatching cena/umaga it was cena/hbk mania just a hair above batista/taker in that regard, very very close

About hbk/cena raw 07, I liked it, it was good, but I think its a tad overrated and the mania match smokes it. Main gripes with this one (besides its being lengthy, but I thought it was paced WONDERFULLY) was Cena performance wasnt near as good as the two matches mentioned before, and I thought Michaels pulled most if not all the weight in that one. Thought that match (raw 07) was one of the few Michaels performances that reminded me dearly of COKEZ 90s Shawn we all loved.I dont do star anymore but I'd have this around the ***3/4 mark


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I've been watching a bunch of wrestling docs to put together a list from best to worst. Gonna be a while before I finish it, and when I do I'll likely turn it into a video. Decided to just post updates every now and then (after I watch a few docs, not every single time I watch 1). This is my current list, with some notes as to what I thought of them:

1.	The Last of McGuinness - The Nigel McGuinness Story (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

2.	CM Punk - The Best in the World (Tremendous. Detailed. Damn near perfect)

3.	The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of all Time (Exactly what you'd expect in a documentary for a guy WWE consider to be THE best ever)

4.	Jake Roberts - Pick Your Poison (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

5.	The Rise + Fall of ECW (Made a small time promotion seem like the biggest thing ever. Did what Heyman did for his wrestlers; accentuate the positives, hide the negatives)

6.	Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection (A great documentary worthy of the GOAT)

7.	For All Mankind - The Life & Career of Mick Foley (Great, but missed out on some really important things from his career that prevent the doc from being higher)

8.	The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA (Truly made the AWA seem spectacular, and did a wonderful job of highlighting the importance of the AWA to the wrestling world)

9.	Hard Knocks - The Chris Benoit Story (One of the first documentaries WWE did that REALLY highlighted the entire career of a wrestler. However being in the early stages of these kind of documentaries [the difference between 04+ docs to pre-04 docs is HUGE], they hadn't got it "down" to a science yet and missed out a lot)

10.	The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling (Great at showcasing WCCW and the talent, but I feel the Von Erich tragedies overshadowed a lot of other stuff, preventing the documentary from being one of the all time greats)

11.	Starrcade - The Essential Collection (Despite only being around an hour long, they did a wonderful job of making Starrcade look great. However it really lacks detail once they get into the Bischoff era WCW, ignoring the Hogan/Sting angle almost entirely and practically everything else afterwards)

12.	Triple H - Thy Kingdom Come (starts off really good, and then goes downhill. Personally I didn't mind the behind the scenes/Stephanie stuff... BUT it highlights that part of his life and career over almost everything he did from 200 onwards, which is when his career was actually considered important)

13.	You Think You Know Me - The Story of Edge (A solid documentary, but nothing about it stands out to me)

14.	The Rise & Fall of WCW (decent but very, very disappointing given the length of it. So much is missed out or not talked about in detail. ECW gets 3 hours and this gets 2?)

15.	Ricky Steamboat - The Life Story of the Dragon (VERY disappointing doc. 1 hour 10 minutes in total, and focuses on about 4 of his feuds and that's about it)

16.	Attitude Era (An hour long and extremely disappointing. Like the Steamboat doc, they only really focus on a small handful of feuds, and they only really go for the "major" ones that have been covered MULTIPLE times in other docs)

Currently watching the Heroes of World Class: The story of the Von Erich's and the Rise and Fall of World Class Championship Wrestling (fuck me at the length of the title lol) documentary.


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## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Speaking of documentaries, is the Jericho one worth watching?


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a while since I've seen it, but yeah, it's pretty good.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've heard a lot of criticism of Nigel's self produced bopic tbh, though I've yet to see it. I think what un-nerved a fair contingent was something along the lines of Nigel baiting people into buying it so he could reveal the possible health issues which forced him out of wrestling, which had been a hot topic and which some people saw as a carny trick on his part.

The main criticism seems to be however that Nigel supposedly paints a picture which places very little responsibility on his part for his career never working out the way it could have, whereas many view him having a big part in that. It sucks to hear that he basically couldn't afford the surgery WWE required him to have, on top of the fact there was no guarantee after rehab that he'd be used well given the extensive layoff, but I can't say I disagree when people say Nigel has to accept a lot of blame personally for the state of his body.

He made a conscious decision to progress in ROH by slowly refining his style from the matwork centric/european based style he initially utilised, into more of a hybrid US strong style influence with aspects of his matwork and european background. It's common acceptance he was on the juice during that time, and throwing ungodly stiff lariats multiple times per match, to the point where his shoulders were never going to survive the brunt of the damage, not to mention some of the ridiculous spots he agreed to in order to further connect with the audience (multiple unprotected headbutts of the ring post, the running headbutt sequence vs Danielson @ Driven, the aforementioned repetitive stiff as fuck lariats every match etc) which were always going to put strain on his body and long-term health.

I don't want to come across as if Nigel deserved what happened to him, because I don't and it's tragic to see him in the state he's in (to the point where in past interviews he's had to confess he can barely remember any of his ROH title reign which spanned a year and a half). I just feel at some point, he personally has to accept a fair portion of fault on his part for the injuries and long-term health repercussions he risked by abandoning his more safer style, in the bid of becoming a bigger star. He certainly had some really shit luck along the way that wasn't his fault, but I hear some people from time to time act as if he was faultless, which I have trouble accepting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Blame definitely falls on him for some injuries and health problems no doubt, but the things that prevented him from going to WWE and remaining in TNA really weren't his fault. WWE showed NO interest in wanting to hire him after shoulder surgery, so he wasn't going to waste the money on getting it (when he actually didn't need it) and then earning NOTHING for months while he rehabed it. And then in TNA the Hep B thing certainly wasn't his fault.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't want to come across as 'it's all on Nigel', because I know he was dealt a shit hand in some aspects beyond his control, but rather that in some interviews, it feels like he tries to downplay/dismiss any fault on his own part for the injuries and health issues he's now suffering from, and I feel doing a career retrospective, it's quite clear to spot the refined style and see him taking more risks and reckless spots in a conscious effort to move up the ROH ranks. Crying shame that a guy with that talent never got to achieve the success of Punk or Bryan, but it's also a life lesson imo for those who risk it all for fame and fortune and then suffer debilitating repercussions from it. A tragic story no doubt.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thing is, the guy DOESN'T have any health problems now. He is cleared to wrestle, and has been since he got rid of the Hep B. So those risks, while definitely causing health problems at the time, haven't hindered him in the long run at all.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Does he not? I recall someone at PWO saying they did an interview with him sometime before his documentary, but deleted it because Nigel was unco-operative, simply because he confessed much of his title reign and career in ROH was hazy and something he struggled to recall. His body physically might be cleared, but I've heard quite a few worrying interviews from people saying the concussions and memory lapse is a concern and something that highlights the physicality he put his body through.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He claims in his documentary that he's fine now, and has said it numerous times in interviews since then too.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I see, I just remember reading what this bloke said and the picture he painted of Nigel's frame of mind during the interview was quite unsettling. He said he was far worse than he'd ever seen Foley, and given he's under 40 he was really concerned about the massive memory lapses Nigel had throughout the interview, which meant he could barely cover much of his ROH work because he simply couldn't recall much of it.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might have been a short term thing (he has talked about some of his ROH run in recent interviews), or maybe he's simply downplaying the whole thing. Hard to say/know. But he doesn't show any signs of that in his documentary while talking about... anything, and in interviews afterwards he's seemed fine too.

But even if he WAS suffering from that, I still don't see how it would effect people's opinions on his documentary since his head injuries in the past or whatever never came into question. The WWE doc was only concerned about his arms which was THE only reason he didn't get into WWE. And TNA was down to Hep B and him being off for so long + Hogan & Bischoff coming in and not seeing that much in him.

But all this being said, you definitely should check out his documentary regardless. Even if you don't agree with what he says in it or anything, I definitely recommend it to EVERY wrestling fan. It's one of those docs that just NEEDS to be watched.


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think the memory lapse thing was more the interviewer's concern for Nigel's sake, because he said he was noticeably different from the last interview he conducted where he was eloquent and by all accounts a great interview. The bloke's main criticism of the doc rested on him feeling Nigel downplayed/overlooked aspects where he could be attributed a degree of fault, on top of the bloke really disliking how the Hep story was portrayed/used to promote the DVD and draw more sales.

I might watch it though, because as a talent Nigel was one of the few at his peak who really channelled the modern style whilst injecting old school intangibles to make the matches mean something, and the breakdown of his career from the heights it could have reached is certainly an intriguing and sad story for someone with considerable more talent than a number of WWE past and present employees.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So the guy didn't like how Nigel used the Hep B thing to promote the DVD and get more sales? Boo fucking hoo tbh lol. Nigel put a lot of time and effort into making the DVD and people were genuinely interested to find out what happened to him, so why not use that to help drive sales? It's just good marketing lol . I mainly contributed to the project and got the DVD because I wanted to know what happened. That WAS the main selling point for me.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> So the guy didn't like how Nigel used the Hep B thing to promote the DVD and get more sales? Boo fucking hoo tbh lol. Nigel put a lot of time and effort into making the DVD and people were genuinely interested to find out what happened to him, so why not use that to help drive sales? It's just good marketing lol . I mainly contributed to the project and got the DVD because I wanted to know what happened. That WAS the main selling point for me.


I really need to watch more of him, all I know is that his turn against Danielson in that Anniversary bout is one of the greatest matches I've ever seen, period. And I didn't even know the full back story at the time, just watching his actions in the ring with the commentators filling in some of the blanks pretty much told the whole story. That style, where wrestlers action work holds instead of using them for rest, grinding each other down on the mat, fighting for control, and using punches and kicks and headbutts only when they mean something or are necessary is easily my favorite style of match to watch these days.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nigel is quite the guy. I don't think a lot of his ROH Pure title defenses hold up as well as I remember them, but his best matches and performances remind me why I love wrestling. If I could ever find it again (thanks a lot Megaupload), I'll link you his match with Austin Aries that many consider one of the greatest North American matches of the last decade. He could play both a face and a heel very well. He also had an amazing match against :rollins that should be at the top of your list of matches to find.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been meaning to check out a lot of the older ROH stuff. I've only seen a handful of matches (all involving Danielson vs Nigel/Morishima/KENTA), so that needs to change.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, one of the mods told us that we are not allowed to talk about ROH in here. Curse whoever that mod was.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We can talk, just can't post links to matches or else ROH GONNA GET US or something.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh. Well in that case, let's bring up the debate on who the better fatty is. Mark Henry or Takeshi Morishima? Specifically, HOP Henry vs. ROH Champ Shima.


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'll link you his match with Austin Aries that many consider one of the greatest North American matches of the last decade.


pm sent for you to send


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh. Well in that case, let's bring up the debate on who the better fatty is. Mark Henry or Takeshi Morishima? Specifically, HOP Henry vs. ROH Champ Shima.



Considering the only Morishima I've seen is against Danielson and Misawa, I'd go with Henry, most of that is gotta be character too. Henry's character from 2006-on is one of my favorites in all wrestling. His match against Punk that I watched yesterday (the one were Punk loses by count out) exemplifies a GREAT Mark Henry character performance. I love how he just puts the bad mouth on dudes while he's tossing them around and stomping them. Hard to top that.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Henry/Punk match is in the same category as Benoit/Regal in that it should be required viewing for every single aspiring wrestler.


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## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I thin Morishima's best matches (in ROH at least, haven't seen anything of his from NOAH) are better than Henry's but he's had the benefit of working matches with a wider variety of opponents and each match, given time to create a good match. Henry, however, has made the most out of a lot worse hand that's been dealt to him. I think if Henry was given the opportunity Morshima was in being able to go out each time with 10-20 minutes with more than competent workers, I'd definitely consider him the better. I don't think it's a fair comparison in thats sense.

Basically, Morishima was given a better platform and better opportunities to tear it up, but Henry did so even without that platform and those opportunities, so I'd probably choose Henry. Ofc. I may sour on Shima if I decided to seek out his work from NOAH as I hear he's had some terribad matches, and part of the reason I don't bother with it is because I don't want to fuck with my extremely high opinion of him 

I can't slight Takeshi's ROH run though, one of my favourites runs of anybody, ever. Constant good-great matches not just with the likes of McGuinness or Danielson, but also people like Albright (who's subpar at best) and BJ Whitmer.

Speaking of BJ Whitmer - Anybody wanting to watch some older ROH (TLK you said you wanted to, I'm sure you'll want to also, Cactus), seek out his brawls with Jimmy Jacobs. One of the most underrated series of the decade.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Flux hit it on the head for me. I've seen much more of Henry's work compared to Morishima's, so I've witnessed a lot of the bad. However, Henry always seems to make the most of his mediocre opponents, and for that I've got to give him props. Henry's best matches are highly praised, but I'm not sure any of them touch what I've seen of Morishima's best matches. Henry's character is pretty GOAT, though.

edit - Will do, thanks Flux. I'll get around to that after I watch Lesnar/Angle from SS '03.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Henry 4/2/12 is my runner up for MOTY in '12. If Punk/Bryan wasn't so fantastic I'd have it at the very top.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Essential ROH viewing, not merely confined to my own tastes but rather those of others:

*2003:*

Bryan Danielson v Paul London, Epic Encounter, 2/3 Falls (4/12/03)
Homicide vs Steve Corino, Bitter Friends, Stiffer Enemies(8/16/03)
Homicide vs Steve Corino, War of the Wire, No-Ropes Barbed Wire Match (11/29/03)


*2004:*

The Briscoes vs CM Punk & Colt Cabana, Reborn: Stage 2 (4/24/04)
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk I, World Title Classic (6/12/04)
CM Punk & Ace Steel vs Dan Maff & BJ Whitmer, Death Before Dishonor II Night 2, Chicago Street Fight (7/24/04)
Bryan Danielson Vs Samoa Joe, Midnight Express Reunion (10/02/04)
Jay Briscoe v Samoe Joe, At Our Best, Steel Cage Match (03/13/04)
CM Punk, Ace Steel & Jimmy Jacobs vs Austin Aries, Alex Shelley & Jack Evans, Gold (10/15/04)
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk II (10/16/04)
CM Punk & Ace Steel vs Austin Aries & Roderick Strong, Weekend of Thunder Night 2, No DQ Match (11/06/04)
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk III, All Star Extravaganza III (12/04/04)
Samoa Joe Vs Austin Aries, Final Battle (12/26/04)


*2005:*

CM Punk vs Jimmy Rave, Third Anniversary Celebration Part 3 (2/20/05)
Austin Aries vs CM Punk, Death Before Dishonor III (6/18/05)
Samoa Joe & Jay Lethal vs Homicide & Low Ki, Punk: The Final Chapter (8/13/05)
Bryan Danielson vs James Gibson, Glory By Honor IV (9/17/05)
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi, (Joe vs. Kobashi) (10/01/05)
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong, This Means War (10/29/05)
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong, Vendetta (11/5/05)
The Embassy vs Generation Next, Steel Cage Warfare (12/03/05)


*2006:*

Bryan Danielson & Jay Lethal vs Roderick Strong & Austin Aries, Tag Wars (1/27/06)
Blood Generation v Do Fixer, Supercard of Honor (3/31/06)
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong, Supercard Of Honor (3/31/06)
Samoa Joe/BJ Whitmer/Adam Pearce vs. Chris Hero/Super Dragon/Necro Butcher, The 100th Show (4/22/06)
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness, Weekend of Champions Night Two (4/29/06)
Team ROH vs. Team CZW, Death Before Dishonor IV, Cage of Death (7/15/06)
Christopher Daniels vs. Matt Sydal, War of the Wire II (7/28/06)
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Generation Now (7/29/06)
Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe, Fight of the Century (8/5/06)
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Unified (8/12/06)
Bryan Danielson vs Colt Cabana, Gut Check, 2/3 Falls (8/26/06)
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA, Glory by Honor V: Night 2 (9/16/06)
Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide, Final Battle (12/23/06)


*2007:*

Samoa Joe v Takeshi Morishima, Fifth Year Festival: NYC (2/16/07)
Jimmy Jacobs v BJ Whitmer, Fifth Year Festival: Finale (3/4/07)
Jimmy Jacobs v BJ Whitmer, Supercard of Honor II (3/31/07)
Bryan Danielson v KENTA, Driven (6/23/07)
Bryan Danielson v Nigel McGuinness, Driven (6/23/07)
Briscoes v Kevin Steen & El Generico, Death Before Dishonor V: Night One, Boston Street Fight (8/10/07)
Bryan Danielson vsTakeshi Morishima, Manhattan Mayhem II (8/25/07)
Bryan Danielson v Takeshi Morishima, Man Up (9/15/07)
Bryan Danielson v Takeshi Morishima, Glory By Honor VI: Night Two (11/3/07)
Bryan Danielson v Jimmy Jacobs, Unscripted II (12/01/07)
Nigel McGuinness v Austin Aries, Rising Above (12/29/07)


*2008:*

Bryan Danielson v Nigel McGuinness, Sixth Anniversary Show (2/23/08)
Nigel McGuinness v Tyler Black, Take No Prisoners (5/30/08)
Bryan Danielson v Austin Aries, Take No Prisoners (5/30/08)
Bryan Danielson v Claudio Castagnoli, Northern Navigation (7/25/08)
Adam Pearce v Brent Albright, Death Before Dishonor VI (8/2/08)
Bryan Danielson v Nigel McGuinness v Tyler Black v Claudio Castagnoli, Death Before Dishonor VI (8/2/08)
Nigel McGuinness v El Generico, Age of Insanity (8/15/08)
Kevin Steen & El Generico v Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black, Driven (9/19/08)
Bryan Danielson v Nigel McGuinness, Rising Above (11/22/08)
Bryan Danielson v Takeshi Morishima, Final Battle, Fight Without Honor (12/27/08)


2009 is a bit hazy and considered a lesser year, so people can supply their own matches here. I'd say avoid the Ladder War II match featuring American Wolves vs Steen/Generico, unless you're an avid fan of Ladder Matches. Likewise, the heavily pimped Wolves vs Danielson & Black tag from Tag Title Classic II fails to reach the heights for me that others have it, but Danielson's performance is excellent and the best thing about the match. 

Also, a few from this place did a Best of the 2000s worldwide poll (top 100), here's the ROH matches from my ballot and where they placed if it helps anyone want to check them out:



> Danielson v McGuinness, 6YA = #1
> Danielson v McGuinness, Driven = #12
> ROH v CZW, DBD Cage of Death = #13
> ROH v CZW, 100th Show = #16
> ...



Henry is also much better than Morishima imo. Morishima's peak is obviously very good and when he works well he can be a great power wrestler for almost any capable worker to feed off of, but his inconsistency and real inability to kick on post ROH and really become a dependable worker makes it hard to rank him ahead of Henry, someone who has always thrived and impressed when given the ball (2006, 2008 and 2011) and also enjoyed overlooked performances in other years (2003). Basically, when Henry has been afforded the chance to wrestle longer he's excelled and not disappointed, whereas Morishima's best matches might eclipse Henry's (the difference isn't substantial though), but he's failed to succeed when given opportunities in many other years and had too many 'eh' matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

omg thanks SI this is awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That cluster of matches comes between me, cal, yeah1993, hailsabin/cody, andy/GOD OF CUNT, jawbreaker, bubz, vivalabrave/CHAVO's #1 fan, craig & seabs in case people are familiar with any of the above and their tastes.

A few of those will be on youtube/dailymotion, alongside comps Seabs and Cal are in possession of, but I included the show names in case people have more luck on torrent sites (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not to take anything away from Henry (who's fantastic), but Morishima is like my ultimate favorite fatty ever right there with Vader. The guy was unstoppable in his 2007 ROH Title run. Match after match he would just dominate against the top guys and put in outrageously athletic performances for a guy his size. Matches against Danielson, Shingo, Aries, & Nigel pretty much all exceed or match the best contests Henry has had in his career. Not fair to compare though because Morishima has enjoyed a LOT more success and hasn't been really been held back by anything.

-------------------------------

To keep this on topic about WWE, WWeShop is having a hell of a sale for Valentine's Day. 50% off ALL dvds and blu rays (excluding Mr. Wrestlemania and the Anthology packages).

*1)* First, go to *this WWEShop.com link*.
*2)* Choose your desired WWE DVD or Blu-ray title(s). Add to Cart.
*3)* Enter coupon code “_*HEART*_” at checkout.

TODAY ONLY!!!


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

:mark: '05 - '08 ROH :mark:

Watch most stuff from WOOLCOCK's list and you can't go wrong.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*2nd volume of my Shield comp is done. Shameful plug and then I'll leave again until next time. Matchlistings below. PM me for any more info.*



Spoiler: Matchlistings



Disc 1
The Shield Debut - Survivor Series 2012
The Shield Interview - Raw 26.11.2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 07.12.2012
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback - TLC Match - TLC 2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 28.12.2012
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - NXT Championship - NXT 02.01.2013
Seth Rollins vs Big E Langston - No DQ Match - NXT Championship - NXT 09.01.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 18.01.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - Elimination Chamber 2013

Disc 2
The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - Raw 18.02.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 04.03.2013
The Shield vs Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder & The Great Khali - Raw 25.03.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton & Big Show - Wrestlemania 29
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston, Brodus Clay & Tensai - Main Event 10.04.2013
The Shield vs Axl Keegan, Percy Watson & Scott Dawson - NXT 10.04.2013
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - Lumberjack Match - NXT 17.04.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 19.04.2013
The Shield vs Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.04.2013

Disc 3
Dean Ambrose vs Undertaker - Smackdown 26.04.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 29.04.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Smackdown 03.05.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs The Usos & Kofi Kingston - Raw 06.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 10.05.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013

Disc 4
Seth Rollins vs Kane - Main Event 15.05.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 17.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Extreme Rules 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - Tornado Tag Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Extreme Rules 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.05.2013 + Promo
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Raw 27.05.2013 and Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013

Disc 5
Seth Rollins vs Kane and Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 31.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 31.05.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 03.06.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Smackdown 07.06.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Raw 10.06.2013
Roman Reigns vs Randy Orton - Raw 10.06.2013 and Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 10.06.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Smackdown 14.06.2013

Disc 6 (House Show Bonus)
The Shield vs Ryback, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 15.01.2013
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 01.02.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - WWE House Show 15.03.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton & New Age Outlaws - WWE House Show 24.04.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 24.05.2013

Vol. 2

Disc 7
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - US Championship - Payback 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - WWE Tag Team Championships - Payback 2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - US Championship - Raw 17.06.2013
Vince Likes The Shield - Raw 17.06.2013
The Shield vs Justin Gabriel & The Usos - Main Event 19.06.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Christian - Main Event 26.06.2013
The Shield vs Christian & The Usos - Smackdown 28.06.2013
The Shield vs Christian & The Usos - Raw 01.07.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 05.07.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Tons of Funk - Raw 08.07.2013
Seth Rollins vs Jey Uso - Smackdown 12.07.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Money In The Bank 2013

Disc 8
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango vs Antonio Cesaro vs Jack Swagger vs Dean Ambrose - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 19.07.2013
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Raw 29.07.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Raw 05.08.2013
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Main Event 07.08.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Adrian Neville - US Championship - NXT 07.08.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 12.08.2013
The Shield vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & Xavier Woods - NXT 14.08.2013
The Shield vs Rob Van Dam, Mark Henry and Big Show - Smackdown 16.08.2013

Disc 9
Dean Ambrose vs Rob Van Dam - US Championship - Summerslam 2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 19.08.2013
The Shield vs Big Show - Raw 19.08.2013
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston & The Usos - Main Event 21.08.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 23.08.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.08.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 30.08.2013
Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 06.09.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 09.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler & The Usos - Smackdown 13.09.2013

Disc 10
Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler - US Championship - Night of Champions 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Prime Time Players - WWE Tag Team Championships - Night of Champions 2013
Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 16.09.2013
The Shield Run The Gauntlet - Smackdown 20.09.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & The Usos - Smackdown 20.09.2013
The Shield vs The Usos, Prime Time Players, Rob Van Dam, Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan - Raw 23.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler, Rob Van Dam & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 27.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler & The Usos - Raw 30.09.2013

Disc 11
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Big Show - Smackdown 04.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Battleground 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 07.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - No DQ Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 14.10.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler - US Championship - Main Event 16.10.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Smackdown 18.10.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 21.10.2013

Disc 12
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Raw 21.10.2013
Seth Rollins vs Goldust - Main Event 23.10.2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big E Langston - Smackdown 25.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2013
Dean Ambrose vs Big E Langston - US Championship - Hell In A Cell 2013
The Shield vs Big E Langston & The Usos - Raw 28.10.2013
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs The Usos - Smackdown 01.11.2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Big Show - Raw 04.11.2013
The Shield Backstage With Randy Orton - Raw 11.11.2013

Disc 13
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & CM Punk - Raw 11.11.2013
The Shield Backstage With Randy Orton - Raw 18.11.2013
The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Usos - Raw 18.11.2013
The Shield vs Rey Mysterio & The Usos - Smackdown 22.11.2013
The Shield, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust, The Usos & Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series 2013
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Rey Mysterio - Raw 25.11.2013

Disc 14
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 29.11.2013
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big Show - Raw 02.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 06.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 06.12.2013
The Shield Present A Slammy - Raw 09.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Raw 09.12.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Usos - Smackdown 13.12.2013

Disc 15
The Shield vs CM Punk - TLC 2013
The Shield vs CM Punk & The Usos - Raw 16.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena & CM Punk - Smackdown 20.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 23.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, CM Punk & Big E Langston - Raw 23.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 27.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Mark Henry & Big E Langston - 3 Match Singles Series - Smackdown 27.12.2013


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Streak Part II

*The Undertaker vs. Kane w/Paul Bearer*
For years Undertaker had been put in the ring with all sorts of guys that were supposed to be bigger monsters than him. And most of the time they were terrible workers and at best would have decent matches with Undertaker. I would say that this has to be the crowning achievement of WWE trying to tell this story. There times were it felt like the roles really were reversed as it really did feel like Undertaker was in the ring with someone that was doing a better job of being the Undertaker than the Undertaker. Kane just kicks Undertaker's ass for such a long time and it all builds to a great comeback from the Undertaker that makes Kane look like a total monster. I really enjoyed it an I forgot that Kane kicks out of the Tombstone so that was cool to see. 

While I liked the match it had some things that bothered me. Kane at one point gave Undertaker a chokeslam and before the ref could count to 3 he picked up his shoulder. Now I already hate this spot but in this feud I guess it could make sense if Kane had some evil plan here. But he didn't have an evil plan. He put the Undertaker in a 2 minute long headlock. While the match was entertaining it was also just Kane beating up the Undertaker the whole time and no selling everything and there were times when that sort of took me out of things. I feel like making things a little less one sided would have done wonders for the match. Of course they wanted Kane to look strong so I understand why that didn't happen. The match was really good but not great. 
****1/4* 

_Hell in a Cell Match:_
*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. The Big Boss Man*
Boring is really the only word that could be used to describe the match. The pacing was bad and there really wasn't anything they did or tried to do other than punch each other outside the ring again. There was a terrible spot where Undertaker was handcuffed to the cage and he just ended up ripping the chain and freeing himself instantly. Throw in some terrible blade jobs and you have all the making of a classic bad match. I'll forgive everyone for this because it took place in 1999 and that is almost enough to make it a lock that the match will suck. 
*1/2* *


*The Undertaker vs. Triple H *
I would call this a fun brawl. That's really all I have to say that's positive about the match. It was good but it's not a classic or really anywhere close to a classic. Most of the match took place outside the ring and they fought all over the arena. It did feel like there was some real heat between the two and the pacing was great. I'm not a big fan of taking bumps into crash pads and we saw two bumps like that here and the height of the bump wasn't even that impressive. Again, I liked it because of the great pacing and the out of control feeling but that's about as far as I'm willing to go. 
***** 


*The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair* 
I would submit this as proof that Wrestlemania 18 was more than just a one match card. This was incredible. Flair plays the overmatched babyface to perfection and he matches up perfectly with Undertaker's ruthless heel. Undertaker delivers a brutal beatdown to Flair but Flair's signs of life from time to time gave you hope that he still had a chance. And you wanted him to win so badly. That's the highest praise I can give a match I think. This took place almost 12 years ago and I still find myself invested in the outcome of the match and cheering on the babyface. Undertaker's control segments were brutal (the superplex was really impressive) and Flair's comebacks were just as good. Also we got an Arn Anderson Spinebuster so that was great. There were a few little things that weren't perfect (Flair botches his spot where he goes into the corner and sails over he top rope, Undertaker couldn't get Flair up for the Last Ride, and Anderson bladed after one punch) but overall this was a compelling match that overcame those minor issues. 
******


*The Undertaker vs. A-Train and The Big Show*
I liked this a lot more than I was expecting to. Undertaker did really well as the face as whenever he was getting in any offense it felt like he had his head on a swivel, always looking out for the other guy. Big Show and A-Train worked together really well and did so in an intelligent manner. They made quick tags constantly to stay fresh; I don't think either guy was in the ring for more than 2 minutes straight. The quick tags and short time probably helped with the pacing as well because nobody seemed to let up the entire time. The Undertaker worked hard and they put together a good 10 minute match. It was as an undercard match and it did its job very well. I think I might have liked it more than the first Triple H match.
**** *


*The Undertaker w/Paul Bearer vs. Kane *
I like this match more than most I think. I know this was all about the Undertaker coming back as the "Dead Man" but honestly Kane was much better than him here. Kane's reaction to the Undertaker is what made this work so well. At first Kane totally loses his composure at seeing the Undertaker back because he had been in denial that he was actually coming back in the weeks leading up the match. and Kane's lack of composure lead to him getting his ass kicked. And for a while that's what happened until Kane was able to regain his composure and get some offense in. 

Once he started getting in offense he started to get his confidence back and he was eventually taunting Bearer while he was controlling the match. The height of his confidence was when he chokeslammed the Undertaker and he thought he had the match won. When Undertaker sat up, which surprised nobody except Kane, he totally lost it. All the confidence he had was gone and when the Undertaker finally finished him off he had gone full circle in the range of his emotions. Now I realize this was only 8 or 9 minutes and they didn't do all that much stuff but I found myself highly entertained by Kane. The ref was also pretty amazing here as well because I loved how he would run out of the ring when Undertaker would look at him. Undertaker was the Undertaker but if I'm being honest this really wasn't one of his better performances. He just did his stuff and it was the reactions to him that made me like this. I still probably liked this more than the Triple H match.
**** *​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I like the Taker/Trips WM 17 match wayyyy more than I do either of their more recent efforts at WM 27 and 28. The only gripe I have about the 17 match is that ridiculous choke slam onto that MASSIVE stunt pad. It looked like they were fighting on a big fluffy pillow. If Hunter was unwilling to do the bump through some tables, then they should have just taken the whole spot out of the match as it really does hurt it. Otherwise I loved everything else they did.

Does anyone have a date for the best Mark Henry/Matt Hardy ECW match? And I'm still looking for a link to the GAB Texas Bullrope match between JBL and Eddie, if anyone happens to know where to find it


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I watched Rock/Punk from the Rumble yesterday probably for the first time since I saw it live and it wasn't the absolute POS I was expecting it to be based on the mostly dud comments I read here. I mean yes, the beginning of the match was pretty much a total mess. I don't know how many times the ref started a count only to just stop counting because neither Rock or Punk seemed to remember they had to get back in the ring. It was quite distracting. There was also a long stretch where neither of them seemed to know what was going on tbh, again distracting. But there were definitely some redeeming qualities and actually some really neat exchanges in this thing. I'm thinking in particular of the Rock Bottom-GTS-Sharpshooter-Anaconda Vice exchange that happened somewhere in the middle. And I enjoyed the second half of the match up until all the shenanigans at the end. It was decent enough imo. Certainly not 4*+ like Meltzer had it I believe but far from the complete dud some of you in here have it at either. And as a Rocky mark him winning the title again was definitely a :mark: moment for sure. I don't really know what I'd rate it if I was to slap some snowflakes down, maybe ***** at the most. That might be a bit generous but I liked some of what they did in this. 

Bring the flames!

:rock4 unk5

EDIT - Cena/Umaga is a top 5, maybe top 3 Cena match imo. I love that thing. *****3/4* all the way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Does anyone have a date for the best Mark Henry/Matt Hardy ECW match? And I'm still looking for a link to the GAB Texas Bullrope match between JBL and Eddie, if anyone happens to know where to find it


ECW (8/19/08) : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6hq6z_matt-hardy-vs-mark-henry-19-8-08-pt_sport




> Great match which again makes me question why people consider Matt Hardy anything below good as a worker and why people were so surprised by Henry's 2011 domination as he again demonstrates that it wasn't just '06 in which he displayed immense potential. Match features a great running narrative of Hardy trying to hit the Twist of Fate on Henry after losing by DQ at Summerslam, only for Henry to continually escape by the skin of his teeth. Matt picks apart Henry's leg as a backup plan and Henry's selling is just super. Hobbles about, grimaces in agony when he can be afforded a break and there's a great spot where Henry just mows through an oncoming Hardy to seize control before nearly collapsing to the mat due to his bum leg. He works over Hardy well including a nice touch where they show a delayed suplex where it appears Henry lifts his bad leg in the air well before dropping down to again play up the leg issues. Hardy bumps and flies around for everything effortlessly and puts together a really frantic and energetic comeback where you feel his momentum and exictement build with each blow he lands. Absolutely loved Hardy elbowing Henry's injured leg to break up a submission hold and the finish is really well done with Atlas pulling Hardy off the cover, leading to Hardy going for a moonsault and eating knees right in the face before Henry captialises and plants him with the World's Strongest Slam to again overcome Matt. Great babyface & heel performances respectively, very consistent and smart selling by Henry and a hot crowd who become unglued near the end. Great TV match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> And I'm still looking for a link to the GAB Texas Bullrope match between JBL and Eddie, if anyone happens to know where to find it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> ECW (8/19/08) : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6hq6z_matt-hardy-vs-mark-henry-19-8-08-pt_sport





The Hitman said:


>



You both rock my socks off thank you so much.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Essential ROH viewing, not merely confined to my own tastes but rather those of others:
> 
> *2003:*
> 
> ...


Pretty good ROH comp. I would think Briscoes would have more than two matches, and would've included Low Ki/Danielson, Low Ki/KENTA, Cabana/Punk, and Cabana/Homicide as well. Overall, really good though - BG/Do Fixer from '06 is one of my favorite matches of all time (nvm my MOTY 2006) - if you want high spots and fast action, there ain't much better. Just 30 minutes of chaos:agree:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Cactus Jack said:


> I like the Taker/Trips WM 17 match wayyyy more than I do either of their more recent efforts at WM 27 and 28. The only gripe I have about the 17 match is that ridiculous choke slam onto that MASSIVE stunt pad. It looked like they were fighting on a big fluffy pillow. If Hunter was unwilling to do the bump through some tables, then they should have just taken the whole spot out of the match as it really does hurt it. Otherwise I loved everything else they did.
> 
> Does anyone have a date for the best Mark Henry/Matt Hardy ECW match? And I'm still looking for a link to the GAB Texas Bullrope match between JBL and Eddie, if anyone happens to know where to find it


Well you certainly won't agree with me about the other two Undertaker/Triple H matches then. 

Honestly I don't see how Undertaker/Triple H can distinguish itself from so many of the other Attitude Era brawls. Like it had the crash pad bump but that's about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> Pretty good ROH comp. I would think Briscoes would have more than two matches, and would've included Low Ki/Danielson, Low Ki/KENTA, Cabana/Punk, and Cabana/Homicide as well. Overall, really good though - BG/Do Fixer from '06 is one of my favorite matches of all time (nvm my MOTY 2006) - if you want high spots and fast action, there ain't much better. Just 30 minutes of chaos:agree:


I'm not overly fond of the Briscoes, but truth be told there could be a few more matches I've overlooked. I pretty much just took a collection of matches that received votes from the people who alongside me took part in a Top 100 for 2000-2009 worldwide. Likewise, Do Fixer/Blood Generation isn't my cup of tea, simply because the Dragon Gate style does nothing for me and isn't what I personally enjoy. I don't fault them for the match they put on, as it captured their one goal of showcasing the style and had the ROH fans enamoured with everything they did, but it's a far cry from what I personally look for. Still, I didn't see any reason to overlook the match given someone was asking for a comprehensive summary, and despite my personal feelings it's probably one of the most famous matches in ROH history and certainly worthy viewing for anyone not familiar with the match. 

Low Ki/Danielson's best match for me was their JAPW encounter in '02. Really well worked submission match with some amazing camerawork which really showcases the counters and matwork gloriously, and they really time the counters perfectly to make everything a struggle as opposed to a tame exhibition. I think they also have a very good outing in PWG sometime in '08. I want to say it was at BOLA, but I might be mistaking that for Danielson/Hero and Hero/Ki from the same tournament. Thinking about it, it probably is from another time in that year.


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Main event from the first show should be in there. Danielson vs Daniels vs Ki


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Does anyone have a date for the best Mark Henry/Matt Hardy ECW match?


WOOLCOCK is right with 8/19/08, but the house show match in Austria is pretty much just as good.

my writeys:



> Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (ECW 8/19/08)
> We got screwed at SummerSlam with a quick DQ match where Hardy hit the twist of fate in the first 30 seconds and Atlas interferes, so Hardy tries for it early a couple of times again. WWE figures they'll be nice to all of us fans and actually give us a potentially good and decently lengthy match, though. And these two blew 'good' out of the water. So my point was Henry countering the early twists of fate were neat. Since those twists didn't work, Hardy gets thrown around a bit (including an awesome one were he goes sort of shoulder/armpit first into the mid turnbuckle or something) before he trips Mark up and slams his leg across the apron-side part of the ring. What I absolutely fucking love about things like this is how the opponent is forced to move around Mark as he's not even human. Like, you see people put up a tent and have to manoeuvre around the tent and be careful about structuring it together. I get that sort of feel. They shift around this big monstrosity and try to carefully create their openings. I tried to think of an analogy involving Wipeout or the Japanese game show MXC (how Henry's opponents look so small, get tossed around in weird ways and stutter to face big obstacles), but couldn't nail it. So Hardy works the leg because he realises this match could actually not be ridiculously short, but at the same time if he works the leg right he could MAKE it short. Henry is as good at selling offense as anyone in the company. Not only does it look like he's in as much pain as you think he'd be in, but he can stand up and hit his own shit without blowing anything off. He throws some clubs and slams to create the littlest bit of distance and time between himself and Hardy. Once the part where Henry beats on Hardy with Hardy making his hope spots (which was always going to be ****3/4 - my favourite was Matt slipping out of the full-nelson and double-kicking Henry in the gut while on the ground), Henry still limps and puts over the damage Hardy's done. I love how Mark sold it less and less as time went on, so he didn't give Hardy anything to use as a bullseye if he gets on top. But you're never really on top with Henry; the most you get is a big flurry of offense which you can get a pinfall off of. Matt going to the mid-rope with elbows to a wobbly Henry before hitting a mid-rope bulldog is example of that. Matt realises the ropes worked for a second, so he goes to the top, and to my surprise he actually manages to hit the crossbody instead of it becoming a WSS. Hardy finally getting the twist of fate only for Atlas to pull him off again was RUDO, and the ref didn't see it this time so the match can continue. And it continues for about forty seconds until Henry gets his WSS in. See? You only have so much you can do on top of Henry. There is no way this could have been anything less than good and I meant it when I said they blew 'good' of the water. Million stars? Yes, this was one million stars.





> Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (Innsbruck, Austria 9/26/08)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8
> No DQ. I had no choice but to have unnatural expectations for his and YES it totally met them. Hardy starts by playing off of the reception he’s getting, raising and lowering his arms to dictate the level of noise the crowd make, etc. Henry covers his ears and kicks the ropes all Eddie Guerrero style, and then later mocks Hardy, raising and lowering his arms (right before stepping on Hardy’s cheek). There was an awesome near fall where Henry kicks out by throwing Hardy off of him, and the ref had to run out of the ring to not be squished by a flying Hardy. Henry taking it to the outside and using the guardrail (plus hitting his remarkably great clubs) was really cool and Hardy is naturally willing to bump nicely for him. The ref nearly gets hit again, when Henry throws the steps into the ring and he has to back up all ‘hey, HEY, look out, HEY!’ I loved how Henry didn’t leave his feet unless Hardy used his own momentum against him – slipping from the ring post shot, and dodging the ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’. Hardy tries to capitalise on the ring post spot with a trash can, but winds up getting levelled. After ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’, Atlas gives Henry a chair which leads to an awesome spot where Hardy dodges, and Henry sends the chair into the ropes and back into his own face. Henry going down after a single ladder shot may have bee a little anti-climatic, but I didn’t totally expect him to kick out of the ladder elbow, so that kind of made up for it. Atlas comes in to help, which sets up Henry getting a completely credible near fall off of nothing more than a fist to the face. Beautiful. Finish run was really well done. Not sure this is as good as their best match together, but ‘not sure’ is he key word. This is still one of the better WWE matches I’ve seen from 2008. Other than Finlay, was there anybody in the WWE better than these two that year?


I think Henry/Finlay 11/4/08 is my favourite Henry match from 2008, though. I have writeys for that and the other awesome Finlay match. Fuck, Henry was tremendous in 2008. I need to watch his entire year.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

jessyj2009 said:


> Main event from the first show should be in there. Danielson vs Daniels vs Ki


Maybe if it was based on significance. Match quality isn't great, it's just that typical Indy style spotfest (although a very well done one I guess) that ROH was full of for it's first few years. Thankfully the company strayed away from that kind of thing in 2004. They still had those matches scattered about but they definitely started relying on great stories being told in the ring to go along with the amazing athleticism and that's obviously when the company was at it's best.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had ECW 08 downloaded for a few months now and not gotten around to HENRY yet. Methinks this should be changed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> WOOLCOCK is right with 8/19/08, but the house show match in Austria is pretty much just as good.
> 
> my writeys:
> 
> ...




Couldn't agree more with all you said, I wish I could remember stuff better after I watch matches so I could write better reviews. Henry's selling obviously stuck out to me, as did the full Nelson spot you mentioned. I too really like when you have a big man little man dynamic and the smaller guy does the dancing around routine when he's wounded him. It's like having a cornered wounded bear, yea the bear is hurting but really he's even more pissed than before so if he gets one of his paws on you, watch the fuck out. Make no mistake about it, Henry is a fucking Grizzly Bear in the ring.

I watched that Finlay/Henry match you mentioned along with the Belfast Brawl (unless you were talking about the brawl? Can't remember the date if the other Finlay/Henry match I watched, it was on ECW TV though, the one were Henry takes out Hornswoggle at ringside) and I have to say those two have wonderful chemistry. Every time I see a Finlay match were he is a face, I come away very pleasantly surprised. I always think to myself "I hate this happy Irish gimmick with Hornswoggle, Finlay should always be a serious heel" and then the match starts and it's like all that other bullshit Vince threw at Finlay doesn't matter, he still works a similar style but tweaks things so that he gets over as a face. Instead of Finlay being the first to get nasty, he just does it in retaliation for his opponent going there first. Bottom line, any Finlay is GREAT. He's a top 10 wrestler of all time for a reason.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE.com has released their 10 greatest Elimination Chamber matches. Per usual, it's a joke. NYR 2005 isn't even on the list (which many of you consider to be the best) and numbers 2 and 3 (Summerslam '03 and NYR '06) are widely considered to be two of the worst. I at least agree with number one.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/eliminationchamber/10-best-elimination-chamber-matches


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NYR 06 :ti

Really dont get the hate for SS 03 chamber tbh


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Man NWO 2005 is such a bad show with so much filler shit :|

And Luther Reigns vs The Undertaker is beyond terrible, that was one of the sloppiest Taker matches I have ever seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> WWE.com has released their 10 greatest Elimination Chamber matches. Per usual, it's a joke. NYR 2005 isn't even on the list (which many of you consider to be the best) and numbers 2 and 3 (Summerslam '03 and NYR '06) are widely considered to be two of the worst. I at least agree with number one.
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/shows/eliminationchamber/10-best-elimination-chamber-matches




You'd think with them finally admitting that Chris Benoit existed by allowing his matches to air on the network that they would be okay with having him listed in a match on their website. I 100% understand that they cannot do anything seen as "promoting" him I.e. Releasing a Benoit DVD set, Benoit merchandise, inducting him into the HoF, etc. But simply acknowledging he was 1 of 6 contestants in the far and away best chamber match ever isn't going to do any harm and is in no way promoting him. They don't need to talk about him in the description or how awesome he was in the match, merely list him as a participant and that's that. I don't see why this needs to be so complicated. I'm happy I got the original Ladder Match set before it went out of production, as Benoit is all over that set and the OG Ladder Match set is far better than the 2nd "Crash and Burn" set.

I've done enough Benoit bitching for a lifetime so I'll stop at that. I've got a Last Man Standing day lined up for tomorrow, here are the matches I've got in the que so far, am I missing any big ones?

Foley vs Rocky Valentines Day Massacre
Jericho vs Trips Fully Loaded
Benoit vs Edge Backlash
Cena vs Umaga Royal Rumble
Taker vs Batista Backlash
Cena vs Batista Extreme Rules
Orton vs Trips No Mercy

Last Man Standing really is one of the most consistently great gimmicks out there, all of those matches are ****1/4+ in my book.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus, only one popping up for me is HHH vs. Orton from RAW '09. I really liked Edge/Kane from Smackdown January 2011 too.



SMITTY said:


> NYR 06 :ti
> 
> Really dont get the hate for SS 03 chamber tbh


I don't necessarily think it's bad, it's just nothing special. The ending really sucks and there's some decent stuff throughout but I wouldn't go much higher than ***.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I will pimp Owen/Vader ONO 1997 until the day I die. One of my favorite Owen matches and maybe my favorite Vader singles match in WWE (along with SS 96')


Thanks for it - me and a buddy sat down to watch a few and this stole the show. Owen is so damn clever and uses callbacks so well. Loved the shoulder block opener, body slam sequence, crucifix mush, Hart tb bump and rib selling, and had a great finish. Really enjoy seeing guys breakout different stuff, and Owen was again clever to know that he was working with Vader when they decided on that finish. I think there's even a moment during the rib sell where you can hear Vader say "Are you alright, man? Are you workin'?" While he's got him in the headlock:lol.

Also at Woolcock, I watched Christian with Randy at OTL and put it even with the Swagger match. The sunset flip spot wasn't what I remembered, and was unique to the match. Didn't know if I liked Randy's sell on the RKO attempt - was a little awkward, imo. Also pretty sure that the Unprettier is my least favorite finisher of all time:lol.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good smackdown this week. 3 good matches and a great smackdown main event. Be sure to check it out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus, watch Del Rio/Show from 1/13 last year if you're going on a LMS spree.

Show is tremendous in control, really brutalising Del Rio and oozing class as he dictates the pace, and Del Rio bumps superbly and makes you wish they'd done a better job of booking him as a face, because it's perhaps his best performance of his WWE career. The way they have Del Rio survive Show's onslaught with a mixture of luck and inventive genius is brilliant in its simplicity, and Del Rio's gradual fixation with wearing down Show's shoulder, and the extent to which this plays into the finish is just a wonderful payoff. Absolutely blows away their rematch at RR, and I'd only have Del Rio/Ziggler Payback and Del Rio/Christian from Summerslam ahead of it for Del Rio's best match of 2013.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Can't believe we barely talked about that Wyatt vs. Shield showdown. That was great. It's incredible to me how WWE could book something like that so well, but then book simple shit so terribly.

I loved the crowd reacting to every movement each group made. Loved the whole chess-like vibe of it all.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

LilOlMe said:


> Can't believe we barely talked about that Wyatt vs. Shield showdown. That was great. It's incredible to me how WWE could book something like that so well, but then book simple shit so terribly.
> 
> I loved the crowd reacting to every movement each group made. Loved the whole chess-like vibe of it all.


It was really well done and i cant wait for the match at the Chamber.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

big big fan of ADR/Show LMS, think very highly of it, not sure most in here share the same opinion iirc


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cactus, only one popping up for me is HHH vs. Orton from RAW '09. I really liked Edge/Kane from Smackdown January 2011 too.
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily think it's bad, it's just nothing special. The ending really sucks and there's some decent stuff throughout but I wouldn't go much higher than ***.



Added, thanks man.




JustJoel said:


> Thanks for it - me and a buddy sat down to watch a few and this stole the show. Owen is so damn clever and uses callbacks so well. Loved the shoulder block opener, body slam sequence, crucifix mush, Hart tb bump and rib selling, and had a great finish. Really enjoy seeing guys breakout different stuff, and Owen was again clever to know that he was working with Vader when they decided on that finish. I think there's even a moment during the rib sell where you can hear Vader say "Are you alright, man? Are you workin'?" While he's got him in the headlock:lol.
> 
> Also at Woolcock, I watched Christian with Randy at OTL and put it even with the Swagger match. The sunset flip spot wasn't what I remembered, and was unique to the match. Didn't know if I liked Randy's sell on the RKO attempt - was a little awkward, imo. Also pretty sure that the Unprettier is my least favorite finisher of all time:lol.


Glad you loved it as much as I do. Owen was absolutely superb in that match.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Cactus, watch Del Rio/Show from 1/13 last year if you're going on a LMS spree.
> 
> Show is tremendous in control, really brutalising Del Rio and oozing class as he dictates the pace, and Del Rio bumps superbly and makes you wish they'd done a better job of booking him as a face, because it's perhaps his best performance of his WWE career. The way they have Del Rio survive Show's onslaught with a mixture of luck and inventive genius is brilliant in its simplicity, and Del Rio's gradual fixation with wearing down Show's shoulder, and the extent to which this plays into the finish is just a wonderful payoff. Absolutely blows away their rematch at RR, and I'd only have Del Rio/Ziggler Payback and Del Rio/Christian from Summerslam ahead of it for Del Rio's best match of 2013.



Damn that match has been on my "To Watch" list for a while but I never seem to get around to it. Today sounds like the perfect time to fix that. I always felt Del Rio was going to fight an uphill battle getting over as a face, but really, it doesn't have anything to do with his work as he is almost as good as a face as he is a heel. It's more his character and how he was booked that kept him from getting truly over with the crowd as a guy they could get behind. That's a really intriguing sounding match up can't wait to get it a look see.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you've never seen it cjack ? you are missing out watch right now, iirc you'll seen the other ones on your list before


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I thought ADR/Show LMS was a solid match, I was a fan of Del Rio's early face character he seemed like an interesting character as a face, but they ended up ruining it and making him another cheesy uninteresting babyface.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally got around to watch SD... from last week .

Couldn't sit through Roman/Ambrose Vs Kofi/Ziggler. Was dull as shit any time Roman wasn't in the match, plus the commentary was distracting.

Bryan/Cesaro was fine, though honestly didn't think it was anything remotely special outside of a few spots. Disappointing, though still fun.

Goldust/Bray was :mark:. Short, but absolutely brilliant with the time it got. Both guys looked great, and the Shield promo afterwards was good too.

Sheamus/Ryback was a boat load of fun. That kick countered into a powerbomb :mark:. :lmao at Cole's call of it. "Shea MAN!!" The fuck? 

MOTN though I thought was Christian/Orton. Really enjoyed it, and I'm a big fan of their matches in the past too. Commentary was just atrocious during the match though, as it was all night. I'm really fucking sick of the utter bullshit they spew out of their mouths. They have the exact same fucking arguments EVERY FUCKING WEEK in every single match. Urgh. Also... Orton randomly grabbing a mic and saying how the place they were in sucks? Ooooooook... why? Aside from that stupid moment and near distracting commentary I thought this was a blast. Christian was his usual awesome self, Orton looked motivated once again as he does when working with a superior talent, and I had a blast.

Anything worth sitting through from Raw?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Anything worth sitting through from Raw?


Sheamus/Christian vs Cesaro/Swagger has been getting rave reviews since it aired. Sheamus/Cesaro apparently have tremendous exchanges (duh) and Christian plays FIP so I don't need to tell you that was good.

Think Wyatts v Mysterio, Cody & Goldust also was well thought of, though a step below the tag. FWIW Orton/Cena seemed to be favourably thought of compared to their PPV series, but I'm at the point where I can't really muster much interest to watch their matches unless someone I absolutely trust assures me it's worth the time.

Cesaro/Orton from Smackdown seems to be promising based on initial feedback, and I think Cesaro works face in it so it'll be worth viewing for that alone. Shield vs Bryan, Sheamus & Christian should also be very good barring a criminal lack of time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

supposedly Cesaro/Orton gets over 25 minutes


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People could have given Orton/Cena ***** for the Raw match and I still wouldn't watch it :lmao.

Thanks for spoiling SD for me btw...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Not sure how stating two of the matches which aired is spoiling, but ok.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show hasn't aired in most places yet and I had no idea which matches were on the show .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You just came in here asking for anything worth watching from Raw ffs  . I made a conscious effort not to pull a Britta keep the summary brief since I've not seen the show yet either and just went off of the card I saw in the spoilers thread.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Later on tonight in this thread I'm going to give my top ten list for Daniel Bryan's ten best matches in the WWE so far. Looking forward to seeing what you guys think.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You just came in here asking for anything worth watching from Raw ffs  . I made a conscious effort not to pull a Britta keep the summary brief since I've not seen the show yet either and just went off of the card I saw in the spoilers thread.


I asked for Raw, and you have me both Raw AND SD. I DIDN'T FUCKING ASK FOR SD.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ha, it just seemed a natural segway to say Smackdown appeared worth watching either tonight or over the weekend if you were going to make an effort to catch some of Raw as well. Lest you coming in here on Wednesday and asking if there was anything worth watching last Smackdown


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE.com just posted an article entitled 'Editor's Choice Dream Wrestlemania XXX Matches'. It's pretty interesting, here's their top3 matches on the card:

*The Beasts Unleashed
*Batista vs. Brock Lesnar

*The Streak
*The Undertaker vs. John Cena

*WWE/WHC Match
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H

Does anyone think these are possible? haha. Could they possibly give Bryan the Benoit treatment from 10 years ago? Have HHH tap in the main event???


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was just planning on catching up on last weeks SD, this weeks Raw and then watching SD afterwards having caught up on the last week of wrestling .

STOP TRYING TO POTENTIALLY BE NICE DAMMIT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok so just watched *Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich 10-12-85 Hawaii*, completely speechless and mind blown, will write my complete thoughts later, but holy shit, I think this is a GOATC, meaning this may be the best match Ive EVER seen


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

One of Flair's most overlooked matches really, at least in conjuncture with the Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 falls match from BOTB. It's an extraordinary match without question, but I could listen to an argument for the Wahoo match being superior and I doubt I'd take it over the best Windham match. That's more a testament to the body of Flair's absolute best classics though, rather than a slight on the Kerry match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm almost in the mood to watch some Von Eric/Flair stuff after watching the 2 WCCW docs.

Almost.

Actually think I'm done with wrestling watching for the day . The fact I was able to sit through almost the entire episode of SD from last week in one sitting is impressive for me atm.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll have to check out that Wahoo match, ehh idk if its was just me or wasnt in the mood, but couldnt get into the windam BOTB, love their 4/11/87 and impromptu match, But yes these match are overlooked greatly, I'm completely speechless still, just beautiful, I honestly think this is better than the steamboat series from 89, hell this is better than 99% matches Ive ever seen

Guys this match was over hour, you all know my feelings with very long matches, didnt bother me in the slightest


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If you're looking for further broadways, you can't go wrong with Backlund/Valentine (2/19/79) if you can obtain a link. Don't think there's a 60 minute match in WWE that comes remotely close personally, and the narrative is amazing. Valentine constantly looks to utilise the figure four to obtain the advantage, but Backlund finds a counter everytime Valentine looks to have him trapped, and it's great to see Valentine essentially regroup and attempt a new strategy to set up the figure four time and time again to no avail. Really simple but effective way to keep the crowd engrossed in everything Backlund does, and also allows for the heat and tension to build as Valentine grows more frustrated and turns to violence to make Backlund suffer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> I'll have to check out that Wahoo match, ehh idk if its was just me or wasnt in the mood, but couldnt get into the windam BOTB, love their 4/11/87 and impromptu match, But yes these match are overlooked greatly, I'm completely speechless still, just beautiful, I honestly think this is better than the steamboat series from 89, hell this is better than 99% matches Ive ever seen
> 
> Guys this match was over hour, you all know my feelings with very long matches, didnt bother me in the slightest



Yeah still amazed you weren't all over BotB 1986 flair vs Windham, that's one of the most spectacular matches I've ever seen. I'm definitely gonna have to check out that Flair/Kerry match, if you have a moment and could PM me the link I'd greatly appreciate it. The Flair/Wahoo 2/3 Falls from Botb 1985 is just tremendous as well, I have a link if you need it. It's the only Wahoo match I've ever seen actually, but it blew me away. I can easily see people considering it a 5 star match.

Gonna try and find ADR/Show LMS now, then I'll rewatch all the others on my LMS list.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Flair/Von Erich - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFjY70RO1Hk

Del Rio/Show LMS - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...y-night-smackdown-1-11-13_sport?search_algo=1


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I pm you also


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> WWE.com just posted an article entitled 'Editor's Choice Dream Wrestlemania XXX Matches'. It's pretty interesting, here's their top3 matches on the card:
> 
> *The Beasts Unleashed
> *Batista vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


That is an interesting list of Main Event matches. Not to say I would be too happy with it, to be honest. I wouldn't want Lesnar wasted on Batista. Lesnar against Sheamus would be cool. A few more match-ups could work for Lesnar, I suppose, though preferably not Lesnar/Batista. As for the Taker match, it's fine, I guess. Bryan/Taker could be interesting, in my opinion, but Bryan is in the WWEWHC match in this card. The WWEWHC match is fine, though, match-wise, it probably wouldn't be the best combination. But Bryan going over both Orton and HHH and winning the title seems like a good option. Not a very overwhelming card, all in all. 

Obviously, this won't be too close to the card, anyway, considering how Batista is supposed to be in the WWWHC match, and Cena is expected to work with Wyatt.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks guys, I actually just finished ADR/Show, managed to find it pretty easily.

Wow, this match kills. I love how Big Show in the beginning takes his time beating on ADR, even shouting "it's gonna be a LONG night, Pedro" :mark: ADR does a great job targeting the shoulder of Show, I love the spot were show does the Backlund like lift, tries to toss ADR out, but ADR clings on hanging upside down over the ropes. Finally Show slams him down onto the apron to break the hold, but not before significant damage is done to the arm. Show then levels ADR with the WMD punch, but ADR makes it up. Show tries to use the steps to clock ADR, but ADR avoids and catches him with a pretty drop toe hold causing Big Show to smash his face into the steps. This spot has been done a zillion times before, but I love the variation they put on it. Instead of Show falling face first down into the steps, he remains standing and falls into the post with the steps crashing into his skull. ADR then gives show several more shots with the steps to finally cause the Giant to fall, and then rolls the announce table on top of him for good measure.

Great, great bout, both guys were superb. For some reason, it reminded me a bit of the Eddie/Show Smackdown match from 2004. That match is one of my favorite Big Show matches ever, and a lot of it is because of how well both guys work the big man/smaller man dynamic. ADR/Big Show do it almost as well here.


Thanks for the recommendation (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Ok so just watched *Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich 10-12-85 Hawaii*, completely speechless and mind blown, will write my complete thoughts later, but holy shit, I think this is a GOATC, meaning this may be the best match Ive EVER seen


 Still gotta watch this one.  I do have it on a Flair comp that Cal also has.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll link you zep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFjY70RO1Hk&feature=c4-overview&list=UU7mHdx13IJtgDRaIoOquk9w


Edit: nvm you said you have it


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My favourite spot of ADR/Show was when ADR was almost out cold and pretty much guaranteed to be counted out but he rolled out on to the floor and landed on his feet to break the count, despite not knowing who or where he was. Fantastic. Another Big Show masterclass as well.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Since a lot of you seem to like Mark Henry. Here is another good Mark Henry match from SmackDown! 2006. Chris Benoit's selling is really what makes the match.

Sorry for the audio, it's the best quality of the match I could find though.

x25tqu


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that Henry/Benoit matches rules:



Spoiler: old old old review



*Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown May 26th 2006*

Love the early parts of this match, with Henry trying to use his strength against Benoit, since that's, well, his strength, but Benoit is the rabbid veteran and is able to counter everything into a Crossface attempt.

While his strength isn't helping him offensively to start with, Henry is able to avoid the Crossface attempts by powering his way to the ropes. Benoit realises that he needs to weaken him up more first, and does attempt some arm work, but Henry is just one big power move away from taking control of this match, and it comes in the form of a running splash.

The story of Benoit trying to lock in the Crossface and Henry being too powerfull for it keeps coming up in the match, and I'm fucking loving it. Its a simple, basic story, but it works so well. Plus they keep variating the Crossface attempts, from Benoit doing it in the standing position and not being able to get him down, to Benoit getting him down on the mat but not locking it in, to Benoit locking it in but Henry powering out of it. Awesomely simple.

Henry seems to be really pissed with Benoit always countering him into the Crossface, so eventually he takes the fight to the outside and repeatedly slams him back first into the ring post, causing him to bleed internally. He then locks in a variation of the Crossface to Benoit using the ropes, seemingly as payback for all the Crossface attemtps on him.

I'm probably overrating this match, but fuck me it was awesome. I'd put it just below his Mysterio match in Jan, but probably is his second best match.

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The rabbit veteran? :lmao

edit: bboooo, edited


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, thought I'd caught that mistake and edited it before anyone saw it :side:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cal has SD aired for you yet?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, but I've downloaded it and will watch it laters.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just skip to the main event and share your thoughts pls. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I shall watch it and share my thoughts... next week maybe? 

I wanna watch up on the two Raw tag matches first. And I doubt I'll be arsed with that until at least 2morrow.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Without spoiling it, is Smackdown worth watching tonight? I've got a hotel room in DC for me and my girl for Valentines Day, but I was hoping to time things just right so we can get back to the room after dinner in time to watch Smackdown :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some of you people don't deserve to have girlfriends...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

jesus :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol just watch orton/cesaro now buddy :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Without spoiling it, is Smackdown worth watching tonight? I've got a hotel room in DC for me and my girl for Valentines Day, but I was hoping to time things just right so we can get back to the room after dinner in time to watch Smackdown :lmao


This has disaster written all over it like a Michael Barrymore pool party.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Without spoiling it, is Smackdown worth watching tonight? I've got a hotel room in DC for me and my girl for Valentines Day, but I was hoping to time things just right so we can get back to the room after dinner in time to watch Smackdown :lmao


Oh my :lmao

Part of me resents you for having a girlfriend that would put up with that and part of me admires you for it :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Caught up on RAW:

Wyatts Vs Goldust, Cody & Rey was FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN. Big bastards beating up on Goldie + Rey hot tag = :mark:. Genuinely can't remember anything Cody did though . Finish was  :mark:.

Real Americans Vs Real Gingers (GOAT team ever. I should manage them) :mark:. Crowd getting behind Cesaro makes me a happy ginger. Seeing him and Sheamus battle makes me :mark:. THOSE CORNER UPPERCUTS. Christian being the awesome FIP is... awesome. Duh. Always pleases me to see Christian/Swagger in a ring together. Nothing will likely ever come close to their Feb 09 ECW match but I just like seeing them go at it. Oh man at the finishing stretch for this bad boy. Sheamus setting up for the kick in the corner and Cesaro just fucking BLASTS HIM IN THE FACE with an uppercut :mark:. Loved everything about this. EVERYTHING. Probably MOTY behind Bryan/Wyatt unless I'm forgetting something. Which is entirely possible because what was I talking about?

Now to SD!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Add the Cena/Orton match and last week's Raw was far better than I expected it to be.

Just got done with Smackdown an hour ago. The Shield vs Bryan/Christian/Sheamus is great but the highlight is Orton/Cesaro. Everyone should watch it from watchwrestling.tv because there are no commercial breaks there. I've doubted Orton nearly as much as most others here for the past year or two but I really can't do it anymore. He's delivering weekly with these gauntlet matches and I can only have high expectations for the Sheamus match.



Spoiler: SD



I don't know what to think of Cesaro beating Orton clean, though. On one hand, it's awesome to see Cesaro get pushed because he deserves it and I hope this guarantees him a Mania spot on the card (NOT the fucking pre-show). But on the other hand, Orton has already lost too many times and it's fucking stupid to job out your World Champ clean weekly like that, no matter who it is. I guess I can understand the recent few losses in order to SWERVE~! when Orton retains in the chamber (well, he should). But that Kofi loss last month was inexcusable. WHY THE FUCK DID THEY DO THAT? They couldn't even have Orton kill Kofi in retaliation because as we see, they did nothing with that win for Kofi and now he's back to being an irrelevant midcarder like he's always been.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol is it really THAT bad? I haven't broached the topic with her, I was just kinda hoping we could walk into the room around 8pm and I could be like "Oh look, Smackdown is on, let me just watch for 10 minutes" and then see how long she will put up with it. I mean, I did get a nice hotel room, flowers, and take her out to a fancy dinner, I should be allowed to watch some Smackdown.

Man typing it out now made me realize I have next to no chance of pulling this off without getting atleast a dozen dirty looks and the silent treatment for the rest of the evening. Ugh. Girlfriends are overrated fellas, you aren't missing a whole lot being single I tell ya.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Depends on the girl, really. My ex used to watch shows w/me and attend PPVs. You never know if they'll like it, or just pretend they do because it's something you enjoy.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

C2D, I think the only reason they put Kofi over Orton was to use the frustration caused as a reason and motive for Orton to attack Papa Cena to add to their feud. I doubt in any way shape or form they intended on it benefiting Kofi, and rightfully so, because he blows. Orton got all of his heat back from that loss by attacking Cena's father, and I'm sure no casual fan can remember that result anyway. In the long run it means fuck all


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Basically what FLUX said. I do find it hilarious that Christian is the only one who didn't beat Orton, though. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now to SD this week!



Spoiler: don't wanna SPOIL anything for people



The Shield Vs Bryan, Christian & Sheamus. So this is a match I can fap to. God I am loving the fans these days for many reasons. Getting behind Bryan like never before, getting behind Cesaro, getting behind Reigns, and going crazy any Reigns goes head to head with another big bastard :mark:. SHEAMUS AND REIGNS :mark:. Stand off early into the match slows things down, but the fans stay with it all the way, chanting like crazy for Bryan and awaiting some BRYAN VS REIGNS action :mark:. Reigns' dropkick onto the apron is awesome. Guy just keeps adding more to his awesomeness. I want Roman to be my Valentine <3. Cool to see Sheamus be the FIP here, despite having CHRISTIAN and BRYAN on the outside. Nice to change it up from the smaller guy. Goes back to what I said during WM 29 with the Shield 6 man, and how they forced Big Show to be the FIP, simply because they took an opening and capatalised on it, regardless of the fact it was against the biggest and most dangerous guy in the match. If they can take you out, they'll do it rather than wait and hope to get a smaller guy. One of the many reasons I love them as a team. Interesting to see CHRISTIAN be the hot tag too rather than Bryan, but he comes in like a house on fire and takes it to fucking EVERYONE, then Bryan just tears into the match once all 3 members of The Shield try to take out Christian. DOUBLE SUICIDE DIVE~! Bryan and then Rollins :mark:. Bah, Sheamus accidentally kicks Christian in the face and then gets Speared, leaving Christian to take the pin. Great match. Not as good as the Real Americans/Real Gingers from Raw, but fuck me, the sheer amount of great tag matches since The Shield showed up is incredible. There has probably been more great tag matches in the year and couple of months of THE SHIELD era than the fucking AE right up to before they showed up COMBINED.

HENRY VS REY VS SWAGGER VS some useless cunt who deserves to be fired and not even get hired by TNA. Winner of this gets a shot at Big E's title. Not Big E Langston though. He dropped his last name because... So Swagger is the only HEEL in this match... and Big E is a face. Hmmm... wonder who will win. Probably the useless cunt knowing WWE. I mean, when was the last time he randomly held a belt for no reason? Gotta be time for another pointless, useless run by the useless cunt. UC and Rey Rey work as a team, then UC turns on Rey because he's a UC. HENRY teasting a dive out of the ring but of course he gets cut off because that's never gonna fucking happen. :lmao UC looks AWFUL when he does anything. Offence? Awful. Taking a bump? Awful :lmao. I'm not even saying this because I hate UC, he really is just AWFUL. It's hilariously bad. Henry is out of the match for like 90% of the time which sucks, but when he comes in near the end and just fucking MAULS everyone I :mark:. Any time Henry isn't involved, the match is just a really bad spotty mess. Henry's spots look less fake-y or whatever, and more like a big bad SOB just trying to kill people. Oh look Swagger wins. And UC is the one that taps. Ha. CESARO TO WIN THE WWEWHC AND SWAGGER TO WIN THE IC TITLE. 

CESARO Vs Orton time :mark:. HEY JBL GET THIS, RANDY HAS BEEN IN 5 ELIMINATION CHAMBER MATCHES AND NEVER WON. DID YOU KNOW THAT? ISN'T THAT THE MOST SHOCKING THING YOU'VE EVER HEARD? GOAT FACT RIGHT HERE, YEAH? I DON'T SAY THIS EVERY FUCKING TIME WE SEE OR MENTION RANDY ORTON DO I? OF COURSE NOT. WWE UNIVERSE, WANNA KNOW A SECRET? RANDY HAS BEEN IN 5 ELIMINATION CHAMBER MATCHES AND NEVER WON. DID YOU KNOW THAT? ISN'T THAT THE MOST SHOCKING THING YOU'VE EVER HEARD? I am going to kill all commentators. Cesaro dominating Orton early on was just :mark:. Orton likes to work "safe" these days... so I :mark: even more as Cesaro ran into him with that UPPERCUT. Take that, Randy. Ya fucking pussy. :lmao at Randy using his history of shoulder injuries to lure Cesaro in. Good stuff. Seems that Orton has added the back suplex onto the barricade into his moveset for good. Used it in every match I've sat through of his this year. So 3. Cesaro's offence rules. UPPERCUT AND HEADBUTTS. Crazy to think that this time last year, I really didn't care for the guy. GIANT SWING TO ORTON~! Guy is showing that he could be a pretty fucking sweet babyface with comebacks and hopespots and shit. And the fans are already cheering for his offence regardless of his opponent so yeah, would easily work. HOLY SHIT AT THOSE UPPERCUT SPOTS for an incredible false finish :mark:. OH SHIT CESARO WINS! CLEAN! AND IN EPIC FASHION! Finish adds to this already incredible match. Both guys were ON, but Cesaro was ON and THEN SOME. Me likey very muchy long timey.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Last year was my first Valentine's with a girlfriend and this year is like my 17th without one, so I'm gonna settle for cooking dinner for myself and watching SD (I'm assuming it's good this week) 

Also, I haven't read the spoilers, but if Cesaro beats Orton, LEL at Orton (probably) only beating Christian out of the five challengers. Way to build up a heel champion 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Blu Ray exclusives revealed for _WCW Greatest Pay-Per-View Matches_. Once again, not much to look forward to:

*Thunderdome Match*
Ric Flair & Sting vs. The Great Muta & Terry Funk
Special Guest Referee: Bruno Sammartino
_Halloween Havoc • October 28, 1989_

Jean Paul Levesque vs. Alex Wright
_Starrcade • December 27, 1994_

Dennis Rodman vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
_Road Wild • August 14, 1999_

Billy Kidman vs. Hulk Hogan
Special Guest Referee: Eric Bischoff
_Slamboree • May 7, 2000_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, WWE and the garbage they produce. That top 10 chamber matches list is the worst thing ever. :lol There were even comments calling them out on excluding NYR 05 and now I can't see any comments on the bottom of the page.



Flux said:


> C2D, I think the only reason they put Kofi over Orton was to use the frustration caused as a reason and motive for Orton to attack Papa Cena to add to their feud. I doubt in any way shape or form they intended on it benefiting Kofi, and rightfully so, because he blows. Orton got all of his heat back from that loss by attacking Cena's father, and I'm sure no casual fan can remember that result anyway. In the long run it means fuck all


Still a retarded reason.  Coffee Kingston (or UC?) should have just been squashed and they should've moved on. If they wanted to make Orton look vulnerable and give him a reason to snap, they could've picked someone with more credibility rather than that jobber. Oh well, just have him retain at EC and all will be okay again.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

As you guys know, I am a pretty biased Daniel Bryan mark. I to this day think he is the greatest pro wrestler we have in the business at the moment and the second all time greatest in ring performer in the history of Pro Wrestling. He's had so many incredible matches since he first joined the WWE, but of course, we all have different opinions on what was great and what wasn't. Regardless, I will give my top ten best Daniel Bryan matches that he's had from the WWE, with a star rating and a little review on them on why I think they're so great. With that in mind, what do you guys think were Bryan's best matches in the WWE? Here's mine.

*10. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena Summerslam 2013* ****
_I wasn't as impressed by this match as everyone else was, but regardless I can't deny that it was a great match. It seemed like this match itself suffered from the Kurt Angle complex in that both guys seemed to focus a little more on the spot aspect of the match than the storytelling aspect, but even then they still did a great job of telling a story. Cap that off with Bryan beating Cena clean and you've got yourself a memorable ending to a PPV (until Orton came in and fucked it up)._

*9. Smackdown Money in the Bank MITB 2011* ****1/4
_An opener that surprisingly got a good amount of time (25 minutes, which is unheard of for a Money in the Bank match), this was the opener to what turned out to be arguably one of the greatest PPV's WWE has ever had. Everyone in this match played their roles perfectly. They all served a purpose in some way. Everyone was just on their game that night. And they helped deliver in a huge way in making Money in the Bank 2011 an outstanding PPV and one of the best PPV's WWE has ever had. _

*8. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton Raw 2014* ****1/4
_Now THAT is how you do a main event match. Why these guys couldn't do this on PPV, I don't know. But on this night (I can't remember the date), everything they did was just great. There was no bs finish, no gimmicky moments, just two guys who have history and hate each other going at it. You had Bryan working on Orton's leg, and Orton working on Bryan's shoulder. And both men did a great job of selling their injuries. And with Bryan being portrayed as the superior, that's exactly how the match went down. Bryan dominated for a good amount of the match, and still won, which is rare in a WWE style match. But regardless, Orton still came out looking good, and he deserves a good amount of credit for that match._

*7. Daniel Bryan vs Cm Punk No DQ with Aj Lee as referee Money in the Bank 2012* ****1/4
_Although not as great as their Payback match, this match none the less was outstanding. Both guys played their part perfectly, as did Aj Lee, and the way this match was constructed was great. They did a very good job incorporating the No DQ aspect into the match as well, which is something both guys deserve a lot of credit for. _

*6. Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro and Ryback Gaunlet Match Raw 2013* ****1/2
_The first guy Bryan faced was Swagger, and that part was great in of itself. But it's Bryan's match with Cesaro during this bout that had people talking. Many people consider Bryan's match with Cesaro during this gaunlet to be one of the best matches of the year. The story that was told by Bryan, the way Cesaro worked on an already injured Bryan, the action and the pacing, everything was just done very well. The part with Ryback doesn't matter. Bryan's parts with Swagger and Cesaro are all that we need to mention to understand why this was so great._
*
5. Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan Bragging Rights 2010* ****1/2
_You all knew this would be somewhere on the list. This was arguably Bryan's first Match of the Year candidate match that he had in the WWE at the time, and it was definitely something. The story here was two champions facing off, and that's what we got. We got a champion vs champion match the way it should be, where both guys seemed like they were truly elite and had an answer for each other in every way. They still made Bryan look like the clear cut face, but still gave Ziggler an incredible showing. This was, imo, one of the few rare instances in Ziggler's career where we actually saw him put on a stellar performance in regards to storytelling._

*4. Kane, Daniel Bryan and Ryback vs the Shield Six Man TLC Match TLC 2012* ****1/2
_Absolutely insane would be an understatement when you describe this match. There is just so much that happened here and it's just one of those things where you have to go watch the match to understand what I'm talking about. Everyone looked outstanding in this match, and the played to the 3 on 1 cliche perfectly. It wasn't a lot but it was just enough. Outstanding debut in the ring for the Shield. But again, if you want a good description, I can't give it, just watch the match. You won't be disappointed._

*3. Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan Royal Rumble 2014* ****3/4
_I wasn't a big fan of this feud, but I can't deny that the match that ended this feud was absolutely incredible in every possible way. Bray deserves a lot of credit for his performance in this match, we saw a lot of incredible spots from him that played very well with the story being told here. Bryan still came out looking incredibly strong. And of course, we have the ending which featured one of the most innovative counters that I've ever seen, Bray catching Bryan while he dives through the ropes, and hitting his finisher on the barricade. Just absolutely sick._

*2. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus 2 out of 3 falls match Extreme Rules 2012* ****3/4
_After robbing us of the opportunity of watching these two incredible in ring performers put on a great match at Wrestlemania 28, WWE made up for it by giving these guys a good amount of in ring time to showcase what they can do against each other. The way they did this match was exactly the way a 2 out of 3 falls match should be done. The storytelling was great, the action was great, both guys looked like warriors after this, but they also still stuck to their roles. We still saw Bryan play the heel role well and we saw Sheamus play the face role well too. Easily the best match Sheamus has had so far in the WWE._

*1. Daniel Bryan vs Cm Punk Payback 2012* *****
_I'm sure you guys figured this would be number 1. No stipulations, no gimmicks. Just the two best in ring performers WWE had at the time going at it in a match that should have closed out the show, but instead one of the worst matches of the year closed out the show. Regardless, this match is easily 5 star material imo, and is without a doubt in my mind the best match that Bryan and Punk have had in the WWE so far. Again, this is a match you have to just go watch, I can't really describe why it's so great, because there's just so many reasons as to why that's the case._

Edit: Daniel Bryan vs Cm Punk occurred at Over the Limit 2012, not Payback. Credit goes to Cactus Jack for catching that. Thanks man.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jesus, what a match Orton vs. Cesaro was. I won't spoil anything and I'll write more on it later, but god damn, what a match. Cesaro is a legit main eventer. 

The six man tag and fatal four way match were super fun as well.

Smackdown becoming the wrestling show again? I love it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> As you guys know, I am a pretty biased Daniel Bryan mark. I to this day think he is the greatest pro wrestler we have in the business at the moment and the second all time greatest in ring performer in the history of Pro Wrestling. He's had so many incredible matches since he first joined the WWE, but of course, we all have different opinions on what was great and what wasn't. Regardless, I will give my top ten best Daniel Bryan matches that he's had from the WWE, with a star rating and a little review on them on why I think they're so great. With that in mind, what do you guys think were Bryan's best matches in the WWE? Here's mine.
> 
> *10. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena Summerslam 2013* ****
> _I wasn't as impressed by this match as everyone else was, but regardless I can't deny that it was a great match. It seemed like this match itself suffered from the Kurt Angle complex in that both guys seemed to focus a little more on the spot aspect of the match than the storytelling aspect, but even then they still did a great job of telling a story. Cap that off with Bryan beating Cena clean and you've got yourself a memorable ending to a PPV (until Orton came in and fucked it up)._
> ...


_


Your #1 match occurred at Over the Limit, not Payback, but otherwise that's a solid list, although I think you did overrate the Wyatt match at the Royal Rumble. I personally loved it, but I gave it ****, ****3/4 seems really high, but to each his own as that match ruled no matter what rating you give it.

I think the Henry/Bryan Cage match from Smackdown deserves mention as well.

Edit-Skins, I'm halfway through Flair/Kerry, and man is this awesome. I love how they start with trading holds and a straight mat based attack, then proceed to working holds. Afterwards when Flair starts punching Kerry and Kerry just explodes with rights and lefts before hitting that spinning punch, man that was a high point. Loving it so far man._


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> As you guys know, I am a pretty biased Daniel Bryan mark. I to this day think he is the greatest pro wrestler we have in the business at the moment and the second all time greatest in ring performer in the history of Pro Wrestling. He's had so many incredible matches since he first joined the WWE, but of course, we all have different opinions on what was great and what wasn't. Regardless, I will give my top ten best Daniel Bryan matches that he's had from the WWE, with a star rating and a little review on them on why I think they're so great. With that in mind, what do you guys think were Bryan's best matches in the WWE? Here's mine...


Good list dude, here's mine:

1. Cena vs. Bryan - SummerSlam '13
2. Punk vs. Bryan - Over the Limit '12
3. Sheamus vs. Bryan - Extreme Rules '12
4. Ziggler vs. Bryan - Bragging Rights '10
5. Regal vs. Bryan - Superstars 10/11/11
6. The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC '12
7. Wyatt vs. Bryan - Royal Rumble '14
8. Cesaro vs. Bryan - RAW 07/22/13
9. Punk vs. Bryan - Money In The Bank '12
10. Orton vs. Bryan - RAW 12/16/13.

I also think that Bryan vs. Cena is the best match of the PG Era after Taker vs. Shawn from WM25. Such an amazing match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Kerry is definitely one of Flair's best title matches. They had a couple other matches worth watching. Their cage match is their most famous bout. It's a great match, but pales in comparison to some of their other ones. I faintly remember them having a DUD though. I think it was in Japan, but someone has to correct me there.

Guys, if you want to see why Rick Rude is such a frustrating worker, go watch his match with Flair at Halloween Havoc 1993. Rude looked Big E Langston level lost in that match.

Jack Swagger was a boss in that fatal four way match. Loved everything about that match, the Shield match, and even the short Darren/Sandow match. And then that main event :lenny. That better make Saint Dick's list.

Top Ten :bryan3 WWE matches:



Spoiler: yes



vs. Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble 2014: *****1/4*
w/ Brothers of Destruction vs. The Shield: *****1/4* 
2011 WHC Money in the Bank: *****1/4*
vs. CM Punk Money In The Bank 2012: *****1/4*
w/Kane & Kofi Kingston vs. The Shield: *****1/4*
vs. Sheamus Extreme Rules 2012: *****1/2*
vs. Ziggler Bragging Rights 2010: *****1/2*
vs. Cena Summerslam 2013: *****1/2*
6-Man TLC Match TLC 2012: *****3/4*
vs. CM Punk Over The Limit 2012: *****3/4*


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena getting pinned clean in this day and age by someone other than The Rock is monumental and deserves an extra 1/2* for sure. As far as I'm concerned Bryan/Cena is *****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Edit-Skins, I'm halfway through Flair/Kerry, and man is this awesome. I love how they start with trading holds and a straight mat based attack, then proceed to working holds. Afterwards when Flair starts punching Kerry and Kerry just explodes with rights and lefts before hitting that spinning punch, man that was a high point. Loving it so far man.


Its spectacular brother, I love all the little details and novelties as well, lol like I said you know my feeling on very long matches, didnt bother me a second, loved it from start to finish


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What is this Regal/Bryan match from Superstars?!?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> What is this Regal/Bryan match from Superstars?!?


It was during a UK tour in '11. As I recall they ribbed Regal by playing 'man's man' as his theme as he neared the ring. IIRC they never really had that blowaway great match you want out of them, though they had a tremendous five minute match on Raw in 2010. They have a house show match in Austria that was good, but as far as I'm concerned the Regal/Bourne match from Budapest is better than any Bryan/Regal match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan and Regal need to main event an NXT. Sure fire way to have a classic these days lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Regal working heel is probably the stronger dynamic for the pairing to succeed, and sadly when he was heel they only got about five minutes on RAW, although they did their best to make the most out of the criminally short time. Still, as I recall Regal pretty much worked face in the Superstars match being they were touring England, and I never felt the match kicked into a higher gear given the expectations you'd have with the respective talent of both men. It's a shame Regal couldn't have found a way to make it into ROH for a short run during Danielson's '06 reign ala Lance Storm, because that could have been quite special.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I a ally just watched that Regal/Bryan match from Superstars the other day, really really good but could have been so much more, I cracked up on the intro though, you can tell they were ribbing Regal he had no idea. Too funny.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hmm.. let me see what I can come up with for Bryan.

1. v CM Punk - Over the Limit '12
2. w/Kane & Ryback v The Shield - TLC '12
3. v Sheamus - Extreme Rules '12
4. v Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble '14
5. v John Cena - SummerSlam '13

Pretty sure that's my top 5. Top 10 would be filled out by a couple Shield tags, Ziggler at Bragging Rights, Henry cage match on SmackDown, and probably the December '13 Orton match. Night of Champions '10 v Miz deserves a mention too. Also loved his match with Ryback on Raw last year. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Jack Swagger was a boss in that fatal four way match. Loved everything about that match, the Shield match, and even the short Darren/Sandow match. And then that main event :lenny. That better make Saint Dick's list.


Orton/Cesaro? Glad to hear it was that good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hearing mixed reactions to orton/cesaro


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> What is this Regal/Bryan match from Superstars?!?


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

I really liked Cesaro vs. Orton, 3rd best WWE match I've seen in 2014 after Bryan/Wyatt & Bryan/Orton.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Flair/Kerry is definitely one of Flair's best title matches. They had a couple other matches worth watching. *Their cage match* is their most famous bout. It's a great match, but pales in comparison to some of their other ones. *I faintly remember them having a DUD though.* I think it was in Japan, but someone has to correct me there.


s'probably it. I remember it being fucking boring.



The Lady Killer said:


> What is this Regal/Bryan match from Superstars?!?


I was really disappointed by that, tbh. I think there was a point in Bryan's 2011 where he just wasn't doing it for me other than the Henry stuff (and Henry was more than likely the best wrestler in the world at that point). Bryan matches up with McIntyre and Christian and all of these other guys and I wasn't felling any of it. His heel turn was the biggest breath of fresh air possible for him and he suddenly became the most entertaining wrestler in the world. 

Never saw the Barrett match, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SKINS said:


> hearing mixed reactions to orton/cesaro


Seriously? I haven't heard anything negative. I'm excited to watch it.



Nostalgia said:


>


<3



Yeah1993 said:


> I was really disappointed by that, tbh. I think there was a point in Bryan's 2011 where he just wasn't doing it for me other than the Henry stuff (and Henry was more than likely the best wrestler in the world at that point). Bryan matches up with McIntyre and Christian and all of these other guys and I wasn't felling any of it. His heel turn was the biggest breath of fresh air possible for him and he suddenly became the most entertaining wrestler in the world.
> 
> Never saw the Barrett match, though.


Agreed w/this. Can't remember anything too memorable from Bryan's 2011 other than the MITB win and the cash in -> heel turn.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

I need a good violent match to watch. any suggestions? something in the last few years is a plus.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked the Flair/Von Eric cage match, though I did have a problem with the finish. The 2/3 falls from Flair's Definitive Collection (I think) is awesome. Found some old reviews from when I started watching the DVDVR WCCW set:

*Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 falls) (8/15/82)*

This one is from the second Flair set, yeah? If so, I've seen it, and I liked it. Interested to see how it holds up, but considering I don't remember anything other than the finish to one of the falls, there isn't anything for me to hold it up again :cal:.

First 6 minutes or so are, well pretty decent, but there isn't anything special. They trade holds etc, and are just trying to gain the advantage. Flair plays by the rules, and keeps using the rules to his advantage, like when Von Erich has him in the corner, and Flair gets the ref to get him away so he can have some space and get his bearings back. Kerry is playing by the rules too, and doesn't have a problem letting go of the holds he has on Flair when the ref tells him to let go and move back. But when its Kerry in the corner and Flair is told to move back... he cheap shots Kerry as soon as the ref is out of position. Pure Flair ownage. This only really helps in pissing Kerry off though, so Flair is forced to bring out some more of his awesomeness to turn the match around in his favour, and he tries to do with by countering an arm drag, which tbh I don't think I have EVER seen anyone do. Ever. Never. Not even that helps Flair for too long, but a suspiciously low knee to Kerry ends up being the real game changer for the champ.

Really, REALLY fucking loved the Abdominal Stretch into a Claw spot from Von Erich, followed by Flair poking Kerry's eyes out to escape. Crowd went nuts when Kerry locked in the Stretch, then exploded when he signalled for the claw. And then Flair goes and pokes him in the eye. What a fucking cunt lol.

Flair and Kerry end up exchanging blows, and the ref gets involved and ends up taking a right hand from Von Erich and another ref joins the party. While the ref is being seen to, Flair is in a sleeper hold and doesn't look like he is going to hang on for much longer. Flair looks out of it, and the bell rings, so Kerry thinks he has own the first fall. But of course its the other ref DQ'ing Kerry for getting punched in the fucking face lol. Kind of a bullshit end to a pretty fantastic first fall, but hey, I guess it puts even more heat on Flair going into the second fall, so I don't mind it nearly as much as I did the first time I watched this lol.

Second fall is pretty stellar too. Starts with Kerry going right back to the sleeper that almost beat Flair at the end of the first fall, but Flair knows its coming and is able to send Kerry out to the floor. From this point on, its mostly Flair as he works over the leg (and Kerry is pretty fucking awesome at selling his leg) and sets up Kerry for the Figure Four. Von Erich battles his way out, and is able to bust Flair open and then apply the Claw to the head, and pins the champ to even up the score!

Flair starts off in the corner for the third fall, and they zoom in on him with the blood all over his face and he looks like someone just killed his parents. He is really fucking pissed off, and he ends up just going apeshit and trying to murder Kerry. Fall ends pretty quickly after a double DQ when both men are refusing to stop punching each other in the face. Pretty fantastic stuff, and like Andy mentioned when he talked about this match, it was all really building to this as Flair was getting more and more pissed off as the match went lol.

I *think* I gave this ***3/4 when I saw it the first time, but that just doesn't seem right any more. I dug this more than probably even Andy, which MUST be saying something . Flair was incredible, and Kerry was pretty damn awesome too. I'm really warming up to the Von Erich's after only 2 matches lol.

*Rating: ****1/4*

And the cage:

*Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (Cage Match) (12/25/82)*

This match is so big and important, they needed TWO referees! Why they couldn't have just had Hayes as the ref on his own I don't know lol. And Terry Gordy is guarding the door too. Pretty sure NOBODY is gonna get past him lol, the big bastard that he is.

Some days I'll randomly start thinking about certain wrestlers, and how they match up as the greatest of all time. At the moment, Flair holds my #1 spot, but every so often I start doubting him and I really don't know why. Thankfully, everything I have seen from him on this first disc alone so far reminds me why he is my #1 after all. Guy is legit awesome as EVERYTHING he does. Kerry comes off the ropes with a knee drop (how Kerry didn't slip and fucking injure himself is beyond me, the ropes were flimsy as fuck and the cage looked like it was going to give way too lol), and when Flair gets back to his feet he starts throwing chops left and right but getting nowhere near Kerry because he hasn't a clue what the fuck is going on around him. He does something similar with punches a little later after he gets busted open and has his face mashed into the cage.

The whole two referees in the ring shit makes the match seem a little... full at times, and like Andy, it does kinda take you out of the match a little.

More awesomeness from Flair when he headbutts Kerry's knee to try and get him away (Flair had been working the knee). Also, Andy mentioned about Flair looking like he bladed twice or something... but he seriously looks like he is blading himself any time he is down on the matt on his stomach :lmao.

As the match goes on, Hayes gets pissed off with both guys and the fact he keeps having to physically separate them. It all comes to blows when Flair knocks Kerry into Hayes, so Hayes levels Flair and tells Kerry to pin him, but obviously Kerry isn't having any of it. While they argue, Flair does the same thing but Hayes goes through the door, and Gordy thinks that Kerry did it so he smashes the door into Kerry's face, and the Freebirds fuck off out of there because this is bullshit lol. I'm a little disappointed that the shot with the door WASN'T the end of the match. Watching the WCCW documentary they make you believe that it WAS the end, and I never questioned it because it seemed perfect for the match to end like that to kick start the Freebirds/Von Erich feud.

Instead Flair and Kerry keep going for a few more minutes like nothing happened, and imo it takes away from the impact of the whole thing (obviously it DIDN'T at the time, but it does come across that way while watching it). At least they kinda bring the cage door shot into the finish with Kerry being unable to continue, and the commentator puts it over as being due to the cage door.

So the match is pretty good, Flair is as awesome as you expect from Flair in general, and certainly what you would expect from him based on the earlier matches on this disc so far. However, given the hype around the match after seeing the WCCW doc, I was extremely disappointed with the finish to the match, and hell, even the Freebirds turn itself. It all felt extremely underwhelming to me.

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Your #1 match occurred at Over the Limit, not Payback, but otherwise that's a solid list, although I think you did overrate the Wyatt match at the Royal Rumble. I personally loved it, but I gave it ****, ****3/4 seems really high, but to each his own as that match ruled no matter what rating you give it.
> 
> I think the Henry/Bryan Cage match from Smackdown deserves mention as well.


I think the match with Bray was just outstanding. When you consider the feud that they had and their history going into the match, all of the big spots from this match made it feel much more special. ****3/4 is a perfect rating for it imo. 

Henry/Bryan cage match was definitely something I considered, but I just felt like there was a lot missing from the match. That doesn't take away from what it was, it was still a very good match. I also had strong consideration for Dibiase/Bryan, Miz/Morrison/Bryan, and Bryan/Wyatts Gaunlet match. But ultimately, Cena/Bryan ended up doing it for me. 

I can't see the fascination for the Bryan/Cena match. Again, it was great, but it felt more like a spot fest than it did an actual story driven bout. And there were some moments during the match where it just felt like the match just suddenly stopped and didn't go anywhere. There was one point where Bryan started to randomly kick Cena around the ring telling him to get up and then just kick him and it just made me cringe. I know he's trying to establish dominance but considering the kind of performer Bryan was at the time, it just didn't make any sense and it just dragged the match on.

Edit: For those talking about Regal, believe it or not I've actually never really liked Regal. I'm not a fan of his moveset and I can't really get into his matches because they tend to focus more on the technical aspect of things. He, just like Kurt Angle, was never really the kind of guy that cared about the story aspect of it. Regal deserves a lot of credit for helping Bryan learn a lot of the stuff he does now in the ring, but one of the things Regal always lacked was being able to just make the match seem real, something Bryan didn't learn until he went to Japan.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Finally watched Orton/Bryan, ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sir, we are going to make a man out of you. A real man's man. Soon enough, you will love William.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Not really sure how Regal be accused of ignoring the story aspect of a match tbh. Even in his shorter matches, you could always establish a narrative or theme in the work. Regal would establish himself as the better mat wrestler and technician, he'd feed his opponent's offence and sell the early struggle to establish control, when he was in control you felt typically like he'd earnt it and had to struggle, and he was always capable of selling well into the finish and bringing a fitting conclusion to a match. He can work amazingly underneath, to the point where I'd say he might be better as a face worker, which is shocking when you consider his ability as a heel performer to project his mannerisms and throw in little touches of detail to make even the most mundane sequence mean something.

His matches might not have the 'storytelling' that say HBK/Flair has, but to me there was always a narrative or theme you could pick up in his matches, whereby everything mattered in his matches. There are many guys today, Ziggler being the most fitting comparison to me, where you can honestly say very little happens in their matches before the finishing stretch. No theme is ever really developed or explored, there's little in terms of a compelling heat segment (whether Ziggler is the face or the heel), and really everything prior to the finishing sequences feels like an afterthought, disconnected from the finish and just a way to kill time until the finish. With Regal, even basic mat sequences will be put over as a struggle and integral to the match, whether Regal dominates them (and thereafter projects arrogance), or whether he loses the mat exchange and visibly sells frustration/anger and works a heel in peril segment, which then buils to his eventual transition spot to control the match.

I dunno, when I think of Angle, I think of someone who typically wrestles the same match against any opponent, and struggles to deviate from the norm and wrestles title matches the same way he wrestles grudge matches. Again, Regal is always a vicious wrestler, but you can differentiate Regal in a grudge feud against Regal in a standard match. You'll always get snug and rugged offence, but as a performer he'll project contrasting emotions to put over the match. E.G he'll wrestle and act differently against Bourne than he would Benoit/Finlay, or even the Hashimoto title match in New Japan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm rewatching this Flair/Kerry cage match and this is so stupid. What the hell is Hayes doing? This stinks.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Not really sure how Regal be accused of ignoring the story aspect of a match tbh. Even in his shorter matches, you could always establish a narrative or theme in the work. Regal would establish himself as the better mat wrestler and technician, he'd feed his opponent's offence and sell the early struggle to establish control, when he was in control you felt typically like he'd earnt it and had to struggle, and he was always capable of selling well into the finish and bringing a fitting conclusion to a match. He can work amazingly underneath, to the point where I'd say he might be better as a face worker, which is shocking when you consider his ability as a heel performer to project his mannerisms and throw in little touches of detail to make even the most mundane sequence mean something.
> 
> His matches might not have the 'storytelling' that say HBK/Flair has, but to me there was always a narrative or theme you could pick up in his matches, whereby everything mattered in his matches. There are many guys today, Ziggler being the most fitting comparison to me, where you can honestly say very little happens in their matches before the finishing stretch. No theme is ever really developed or explored, there's little in terms of a compelling heat segment (whether Ziggler is the face or the heel), and really everything prior to the finishing sequences feels like an afterthought, disconnected from the finish and just a way to kill time until the finish. With Regal, even basic mat sequences will be put over as a struggle and integral to the match, whether Regal dominates them (and thereafter projects arrogance), or whether he loses the mat exchange and visibly sells frustration/anger and works a heel in peril segment, which then buils to his eventual transition spot to control the match.
> 
> I dunno, when I think of Angle, I think of someone who typically wrestles the same match against any opponent, and struggles to deviate from the norm and wrestles title matches the same way he wrestles grudge matches. Again, Regal is always a vicious wrestler, but you can differentiate Regal in a grudge feud against Regal in a standard match. You'll always get snug and rugged offence, but as a performer he'll project contrasting emotions to put over the match. E.G he'll wrestle and act differently against Bourne than he would Benoit/Finlay, or even the Hashimoto title match in New Japan.


I guess you're right in this regard, but at the same time though it's exactly my point. Regal does wrestle a different style I guess at times but it never makes a lot of sense when it's in a personal feud of some sort. I'll have to go through past matches to show you an example because it's been a long time since I've watched a Regal match. 

Regardless, I just can't get myself to like Regal. And it's odd because Bryan probably wouldn't be too appreciative of that...


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

Langston vs. Drew McIntyre from Main Event is a good match. Shows why McIntyre should be higher up the card. It's not HBK vs. Taker but it's entertaining.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Need to watch Big E/Drew Mac. Sounds good.

I really enjoyed Cesaro/Orton.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watched Cesaro/Orton, won't spoil anything, but it's a great match. MOTY list right now looks like (all are at ***1/2 right now):

1) Bryan/Wyatt RR
2) Cesaro/Orton SD
3) Bryan-Orton-Sheamus/The Shield Raw
4) Sandow/Cena Raw

Good start so far.

Edit: Just to make it 5, #5 would probably be Bryan/Orton from Raw (***1/4).


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> I can't see the fascination for the Bryan/Cena match.


Really? Style v. Substance? Grin v. Grimace? Pro Wrestling v. Sports Entertainment? It's such a clash of everything. A wrestling equivalent of Battle of the Bands featuring The Ramones against The Knack. Granted, WWE was wishy-washy on the build, but they didn't need to say much for me to see it's Daniel "da best _wrestler_ in the world" Bryan against WWE's Golden Boy- John Cena. 



> Again, it was great, but it felt more like a spot fest than it did an actual story driven bout. And there were some moments during the match where it just felt like the match just suddenly stopped and didn't go anywhere. There was one point where Bryan started to randomly kick Cena around the ring telling him to get up and then just kick him and it just made me cringe. I know he's trying to establish dominance but considering the kind of performer Bryan was at the time, it just didn't make any sense and it just dragged the match on.


I thought Bryan was a little nervous/anxious in the beginning, and credit Cena for slowing him down a bit. The opener featured a callback to their only other singles match (Velocity, '03) which I doubt many fans caught, but nonetheless served it's purpose of challenging the commonly held perceptions fans have of each wrestler. And that's the story/theme of this match throughout: Bryan is more than just some wrestler, and Cena is more than a character actor. The crowd provided it's own angle when Cena Suplexes Bryan on the outside - there's a semi-successful "holy shit" chant before breaking into "you still suck" - a tacit admission that it was awesome but I don't want you to think it's because you're awesome. By the second or third time the crowd chants "you still suck" it's done almost with a smile. The kind of smile you give to someone after you've been served crow. Just ribbing you Cena because you know what? You're not nearly as bad as we all like to say you are. Cena fans rejoice and say "See told you he could wrestle." In the end, Cena toughened up about his arm (that's what that the kick to the arm and "Get up!" is about) and went on to earn his respect (the slap), while Bryan won and formally got his big deal ticket punched in the sports entertainment drama-fest that is WWE. I hear he's been somewhat successful at it since:lelbron

I had ****1/2 on it and was my second favorite match of 2013 behind only Tanahashi/Ishii at G1. 



> Edit: For those talking about Regal, believe it or not I've actually never really liked Regal. I'm not a fan of his moveset and I can't really get into his matches because they tend to focus more on the technical aspect of things. He, just like Kurt Angle, was never really the kind of guy that cared about the story aspect of it. Regal deserves a lot of credit for helping Bryan learn a lot of the stuff he does now in the ring, but one of the things Regal always lacked was being able to just make the match seem real, something Bryan didn't learn until he went to Japan.


Watch wrestling when it was actually considered "real" - say, Lou Thesz v. Verne Gagne in '52, and get back to me. The old school says you don't just get to flippidy-do out of a headlock because it's a fucking headlock! That's a dangerous maneuver. Have your buddy put you in one and escape without punches or scratch/flail/biting your way out. Smart money says first relive the pressure; next to find a way to work out. Technical know-how ensues and you have mat work. Regal's a guy who's always making you work for it, and considering he is one of the stiffer workers in modern wrestling, I'm not sure where you're coming from about making it seem more real. It's not the Spectacular Spotz some need to appreciate wrestling, but he's got so much detail on his work and is so focused a character. Regal/Goldberg is a match that encapsulates what I'm trying to say if it isn't clear. All you need, imo, as a primer to understanding Regal (at least in prime form). And Bryan's taken plenty from him besides Maroon. The European Uppercut (specifically, the way Bryan throws it), Shoulder Breaker, twisting fingers in holds, striking/staying aggressive while applying holds, and generally making your opponent work to get their offense are all things you can at least co-attribute to Regan - even the gimace:lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What the hell is going on? Main Event this week was surprisingly good. Wyatts/Hispanics was so much fun and McIntyre/Big E was physical. Erick Rowan is slowly learning from hanging out with Harper.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Really good Smackdown this week.

The Shield vs. Bryan/Sheamus/Christian and the Fatal Four Way match was fun as hell.

Cesaro/Orton was great. Cesaro picking up the clean win :banderas Good to see he's being made a big deal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Sheamus/Orton Raw next week is the last match leading into the chamber now, right? Aside from Cena/Orton, this is the least appealing match of this Orton Vs The World series. Everyone else feel this way or just me?

Wonder if Sheamus will win, leaving poor old Christian as the only guy to NOT beat Orton  :lmao . Sad to hear that Christian might be leaving once his current contract is up (whenever the fuck that is) because creative (aka Vince) doesn't want to bother doing much with him because he's 40 (aka Vince hates Christian and refuses to do anything major with him because Vince is a fucking tard). Because using people in their 40's is obviously something WWE are firmly against right now...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Christian should leave. There's nothing they'll do with him anymore. Hell I still think Christian won't even be in the chamber. 

Kane or Brock to take him out before the match even happens. Hopefully it'll be Brock, but it's not looking likely. They totally wasted him at the RR in a pointless match with the big show.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Watch wrestling when it was actually considered "real" - say, Lou Thesz v. Verne Gagne in '52, and get back to me. The old school says you don't just get to flippidy-do out of a headlock because it's a fucking headlock! That's a dangerous maneuver. Have your buddy put you in one and escape without punches or scratch/flail/biting your way out. Smart money says first relive the pressure; next to find a way to work out. Technical know-how ensues and you have mat work. Regal's a guy who's always making you work for it, and considering he is one of the stiffer workers in modern wrestling, I'm not sure where you're coming from about making it seem more real. It's not the Spectacular Spotz some need to appreciate wrestling, but he's got so much detail on his work and is so focused a character. Regal/Goldberg is a match that encapsulates what I'm trying to say if it isn't clear.


Please don't tell me that the Regal/Goldberg match that you're referring to is the one where Regal was shooting for 90% of the match. If so I don't see how that proves your point. What I'm referring to when I said "make it seem real" is Regal's ability to adjust to other opponent's styles. It isn't something that I'm claiming he's bad at, just that he tends to stick to the same formula as always. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just that I've only seen the matches from him that all seem to feature him doing pretty much the same thing, but regardless, I'm not going to bother going through the time to see if I'm wrong on the matter. I simply don't care at all for Regal.

In regards to your points about the Bryan/Cena match, you make a lot of good points, but that doesn't take away the fact that it featured a lot of unnecessary and random spots. The batista bomb from Cena, the suplex off the stairs (not that I didn't like the spot, but it didn't really add to the match in anyway), your typical continued counter to the you can't see me, I mean a lot of it just seemed like rehashed and reformulated stuff brought into a match between two guys we never really saw face each other before. Again, I can't deny it was a great match, I'm just not as high on it as everyone else is. There's no real reason to try to explain why it's so great, I'm not going to change how I feel about it just because other people feel differently.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Undertaker & Batista vs HBK & Cena from NWO 2007 is like execution perfection, it's everything you'd want from a star stunnered tag, everything went so smoothly.. Great control segments on each side, although I feel we were robbed of a lengthy Cena/Taker encounter. ***3/4 or probably borderline ****1/4.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just rewatched last years chamber and it was really great. Very fun watch, better than I remember for sure. Henry stole the show but I thought everyone worked hard. **** 1/4


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just thought I would pop in and say that this week's SD, Orton just put a clinic on and made the blueprint to selling the Cesaro Swing in its' entirety. Not only the immediate impact of the swing as Orton folded like an accordion but the post effects as even after Orton mustered up some counter offense, he could never fully capitalize on his work still disoriented and gathering himself/shaking the cobwebs from the dizzying effect post swing. He really sold the swing for its intention, that being when the swing is not the match ender, the swing being the ultimate momentum changer in Cesaro's toolbox that causes his opponent quick and great attrition. This is yet another selling feather in the cap of Orton whom I feel has undeniably been a top notch seller through his career. Most of the time Orton goes against a larger power based opponent that isn't John Cena or HHH, the selling and in ring storytelling dynamic is a thing of purist beauty. As I have explained in a previous post in here, barebones Orton is a great wrestler whom right now is having a nice series of tv matches Cena aside, whom I just feel the two don't really care to face each other any more and that shows in their borderline lazy matches causing shitstorms. I would speculate it being a chemistry issue, but the two have managed to put on a couple solid matches in the past so I think it is a matter of uninterest on both sides. After all, I would think Cena and Orton given how many times they have wrestled have developed a good awarness of what the other is doing that if they cared to face each other could bring out a good contest. This is just pure speculation though, as I don't know how either feel about each other. I really enjoyed the whole presentation of the match as a career win for Cesaro and even though it wasn't held on the SD show, this should be a big boost to Cesaro's credability moving forward. On a side note, i thought this was a match where I felt like the commentary was actually *gasp* good and enhancing! We all know this has only been a once in a good while occasion the last few years NXT/Striker aside. It is interesting the stark difference made when Michael Cole puts some voice inflection/investment in his voice and hones in on just the match compared to when he doesn't.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I rewatched Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan from the Royal Rumble... I initially had it at a ***3/4, but I had to bump it up to a ****1/4 rating after the second viewing, and it's rare to have a match bumped up in rating after initial viewing. God damn, I'll never get over that suicide dive into Sister Abigail spot into the barricade. That was great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Decided to give in and make a WWEShop order before their V-Day sale sended. Pretty good score for under $30:

_Battleground 2013 - _Even though the show wasn't too great, Shield/Rhodes was stellar and Orton/Bryan + RVD/Del Rio could both use a rewatch. Plus you get a bonus RAW 6-man tag in Bryan & The Rhodes Bros vs. The Shield. I'm a sucker for bonuses.

_The Best of WCW Clash of the Champions Blu Ray - _I've been putting off getting this one for far too long. For just $5.99, there's far too much good shit on here to pass up (even though there's a lot of it I already own). Blu Ray extras look like all kinds of great tag action.

_The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2013 _- Initially when this was released I said I wouldn't get it because the listing was disappointing. No Del Rio/Swagger, no Punk/Jericho, no Bryan gauntlet, no Shield vs. Hell No & Kofi, etc. But then when you look at what IS on the listing (Punk/Ryback TLC, Del Rio/Show LMS, Cena/Punk, Shield/Rhodes Bros, Henry's retirement speech, etc.) and toss in the half off discount, I decided to snatch it up. Still not happy the blu ray isn't available in the US. That's pretty ridiculous...


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

Bout to watch WCW Bash at the Beach '95 after some 2k14. Picked up a torrent with a bonus Pre Show.


----------



## I_Was_Awesome (Jul 4, 2008)

how many stars would you guys rate The Rock vs Goldberg?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not very many. Even though The Rock was kinda funny, that match was like watching Family Guy. Largely shit and boring, with one or two moments. Goldberg is shit as you know already and he doesn't add a single thing to this match.

Delete your torrent of Bash At The Beach 1995 immediately.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not very many. Even though The Rock was kinda funny, that match was like watching Family Guy. Largely shit and boring, with one or two moments. Goldberg is shit as you know already and he doesn't add a single thing to this match.
> 
> Delete your torrent of Bash At The Beach 1995 immediately.


Mainly just wanted to see Vader-Hogan guessing it sucked lol?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a WCW Hogan match. How could it ever be good?


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Is that the cage match? If so that's the first match I ever remember seeing so it'll always have positive connotations.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Please don't tell me that the Regal/Goldberg match that you're referring to is the one where Regal was shooting for 90% of the match. If so I don't see how that proves your point.


He wasn't trying to hurt him, but yeah. Regal makes it hard on guys to get their offense in, and wasn't about to let Goldberg squash him in 2 minutes. It's the most vivid and eye catching example of what he does. Grinds guys down, is viscious and brutal, all with a British flare. It's flashy in its mat work (as the British style is) but it doesn't translate for a lot of fans so you're not alone. It's an acquired taste.




> What I'm referring to when I said "make it seem real" is Regal's ability to adjust to other opponent's styles. It isn't something that I'm claiming he's bad at, just that he tends to stick to the same formula as always. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just that I've only seen the matches from him that all seem to feature him doing pretty much the same thing, but regardless, I'm not going to bother going through the time to see if I'm wrong on the matter. I simply don't care at all for Regal.


I don't know if you've noticed, but all wrestlers kind of do the same thing in that they have a formula. Reoccurring spots, sequences, themes, feel, etc. his offense is quite varied within the context of his _style_ but don't expect flashy offense or a top rope blizzard. Have you ever seen a Goldberg match like that I ask you? 



> In regards to your points about the Bryan/Cena match, you make a lot of good points, but that doesn't take away the fact that it featured a lot of unnecessary and random spots. The batista bomb from Cena, the suplex off the stairs (not that I didn't like the spot, but it didn't really add to the match in anyway), your typical continued counter to the you can't see me, I mean a lot of it just seemed like rehashed and reformulated stuff brought into a match between two guys we never really saw face each other before. Again, I can't deny it was a great match, I'm just not as high on it as everyone else is. *There's no real reason to try to explain why it's so great*, I'm not going to change how I feel about it just because other people feel differently.


Easy, Mr. Defensive. This is a discussion forum and the real reason I feel the need to explain what was so great about it is the same real reason you feel the need to explain why you didn't like it. Does it work for you that Cena throwing uncommon offense helps garner a sense he's more than the 5-moves of doom charicature naysayers claim he is? If so, cool. If not, cool but that was the intention behind it - which clearly wasn't lost on the live audience, which is why I brought it up


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WillMark4NewJack said:


> Mainly just wanted to see Vader-Hogan guessing it sucked lol?


IDR how I felt about the cage match, but the strap match is completely awful. Watch their match at SuperBrawl instead, that one's good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NotoriousTCG said:


> Langston vs. Drew McIntyre from Main Event is a good match. Shows why McIntyre should be higher up the card. It's not HBK vs. Taker but it's entertaining.


McIntyre was so beyond watered down I'm shocked you can say this. Although, if he won you over regardless, that's fine and dandy. Do agree immensely w/you stance on him tho.

-----------

Hogan vs Vader in the steel cage isn't really "bad". Mostly just there w/next to nothing to speak about. It was on a terrible show where it felt most of the roster coasted b/c the fans didn't have to pay. Or they just really decided to suck more than usual. Dunno. Hogan vs Vader exceeding past "worst stuff ever" was a positive. Take it on that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Undertaker & Batista vs HBK & Cena from NWO 2007 is like execution perfection, it's everything you'd want from a star stunnered tag, everything went so smoothly.. Great control segments on each side, although I feel we were robbed of a lengthy Cena/Taker encounter. ***3/4 or probably borderline ****1/4.


:clap Great to see some love for this. 'Tis one of my favorite WWE tag matches, love it. Id probably agree on the ****1/4 rating for it too TBH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only seen the NWO '07 tag once now that I realize it. Largely b/c I didn't actively care when it happened. Opinion on it is up in the air until I decide to check it out. Remember next to nothing on the Taker vs Cena segments, but by the quoted post, it seems there is a reason for that. Knew going in it would happen too; which adds as to why I couldn't be bothered to care much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know we had the HBK/Cena classic at Mania, but Cena/Taker in '07 at Mania :mark: :lenny

Saying that, i don't regret we had Cena/HBK and Taker/Batista.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena at Mania 23 would've been incredible, they were both arguably in their in-ring peaks/shape. But the classic Taker/Batista match (arguably Batista's best) and the top-notch main event between HBK and Cena (arguably a top 5 Mania main event) still worked out in the end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> I know we had the HBK/Cena classic at Mania, but Cena/Taker in '07 at Mania :mark: :lenny
> 
> Saying that, i don't regret we had Cena/HBK and Taker/Batista.


The only downside there is we would have had to suffer through a pretty bad Batista World Championship match at WM. Instead, they're repaying us back this year. 8*D


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yea, I'm glad with what they went with in the end, besides Cena would have probably ended The Streak considering it was of much lower significance back then, although the detroit crowd were extremely pro-taker, so it's interesting to speculate the reaction to the outcome(riot?).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker's streak was the plot for the Undertaker vs Orton match in 2005. It was plenty significant by the time 2007 came around.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker's streak was the plot for the Undertaker vs Orton match in 2005. It was plenty significant by the time 2007 came around.


It was somewhat significant but not up to the level of what it is today. As well as that, Cena was still in his unstoppable phase.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Streak was plenty big in 2007, big enough for WWE to put Taker over Super Cena? I really don't know. I also think that the Streak didn't really reach epic status until the two HBK matches. Once those went down, the Streak became legendary and the biggest attraction on the WM card every year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For those that doubted, yes, I managed to watch Smackdown on Valentines Day. And it was totally worth it. Orton/Cesaro was brilliant, Orton took the VE Uppercut like a champ and the whole opening stretch was awesome. MOTN Easily, and Orton's best of the Gauntlet Series.

Opening Shield Tag was great as usual. 4way was solid as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fixed the image for you.

Also, the fuck is Chris?

Also, I don't get it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Fixed the image for you.
> 
> Also, the fuck is Chris?
> 
> Also, I don't get it.



Oh I guess I fucked it up again.

I'm Chris, and I managed to get my girlfriend to watch Smackdown on Valentines Day. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why is the image no longer working? I just fixed it and you fucked it all up.

I seem to remember this now. Lack of sleep is killing my short term memory atm. Second time it's happened today, only this time it didn't involved not ordering my mum's medication :|. 

***1/4 for that match with the people and stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Why is the image no longer working? I just fixed it and you fucked it all up.
> 
> I seem to remember this now. Lack of sleep is killing my short term memory atm. Second time it's happened today, only this time it didn't involved not ordering my mum's medication :|.
> 
> ***1/4 for that match with the people and stuff.




Yea sorry about that I was just testing it when I posted it with the IMG tags and it didn't work so I edited it and just left it as a link. I didn't realize you were on BEAST MOD mode 


Watching Hart/Dynamite from the Hitman Vault Set. Tis' awesome, really ahead of its time if you think about it since it's 1985.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fixed it AGAIN...

 first disc of my Horsemen documentary is broken . Keeps stuttering and crashing and pausing and shit . Guess I'll have to buy it again. Bah. At least I can get it cheap pre-owned. Wish I'd known about half an hour ago when I ordered ECW ONS 05, could have ordered it at the same time. Was like £15+ before Christmas when I was finishing up my 05 PPV collection, got it for £4 today, and now that's my WWE 05 PPV collection complete .


----------



## NotoriousTCG (Nov 28, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> McIntyre was so beyond watered down I'm shocked you can say this. Although, if he won you over regardless, that's fine and dandy. Do agree immensely w/you stance on him tho.


I've been a sucker for Drew since his debut, and I'm as bummed as anyone that he's what he is now. I was initially hoping with 3MB that he'd just snap and attack them and become the chosen one again, but it just doesn't seem likely. Give him some direction and he could be gold if you just erase the last 2 years of his career.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Fixed it AGAIN...
> 
> first disc of my Horsemen documentary is broken . Keeps stuttering and crashing and pausing and shit . Guess I'll have to buy it again. Bah. At least I can get it cheap pre-owned. Wish I'd known about half an hour ago when I ordered ECW ONS 05, could have ordered it at the same time. Was like £15+ before Christmas when I was finishing up my 05 PPV collection, got it for £4 today, and now that's my WWE 05 PPV collection complete .




Thanks mate.

That's awful, the Horsemen Documentary is one of my favorites, I like it even more than the Ric Flair Definitive one. I honestly had no idea Sid Vicious stabbed Arn Anderson 17 times, that's absolutely crazy. I also love the Paul Roma part, where everyone shits all over Roma but then they amazingly cut to an interview of Paul and he starts burying Flair and saying Flair was jealous of him and his awesome body and youthful good looks. Some people, I tell you :lmao


I think the best incarnation of the Horsemen would be when they have Ric, Arn, Tully, and Barry. Those are 4 of the 10 best wrestlers on the planet at the time.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> For those that doubted, yes, I managed to watch Smackdown on Valentines Day. And it was totally worth it. Orton/Cesaro was brilliant, Orton took the VE Uppercut like a champ and the whole opening stretch was awesome. MOTN Easily, and Orton's best of the Gauntlet Series.
> 
> Opening Shield Tag was great as usual. 4way was solid as well.


:lmao

Haven't watched Smackdown this week because my wrestling interest is at a total low right now. Certainly wouldn't watch it if I was with a girl on Valentine's day, but whatever floats your boat Chris. :draper2 

:lmao Cal's edit comment as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan/Vader at Superbrawl was even worse. The premise of the entire match is both guys no-selling each other. Inexcusable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

After watching last nights match it seems I'll have to put my Orton hate on hold until further notice. He really has been good-great in every match he's had so far since RR. Maybe some of those dirtsheets rumors are true, that Orton is pissed at how he's being booked and has just decided to "show them" backstage that he can still go with the best of them. It doesn't excuse him for the 6 straight stinkers he put up in PPV Main Events from NoC to RR, but regardless he's definitely delivered every week since the Royal Rumble. Last night he made Cesaro look like what he is, a future main eventer.

Edit- funnyfaces, the only Hogan/Vader match I've seen is the abortion they called a strap match, the one Ric Flair some how managed to lose :lmao. Can't remember the event, but god it was awful. I think a lot of it was Vader hating Hogan because of how phony he thought he was in the ring, whereas Vader saw himself (rightfully) as a legitimate ass kicker. It's a shame too, as a baby face Hogan taking the beating of his life from the Monster Vader and then firing up one of his classic comebacks could have been a tremendous match, atleast IMO. Egos seemed to prevail whenever the met in the ring.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha cjack (Chris :mark ) good stuff, hope you channel your inner :flair3 with the hoilday


Check out some of SD, opening tag was fun and cesaro/orton was decent ,oddly worked match. But kinda like Nostiagla in that my interest in the product is at an all time low (well close to) and I'll probably take a break from wrestling after mania or maybe after ec TBH


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> haha cjack (Chris :mark ) good stuff, hope you channel your inner :flair3 with the hoilday
> 
> 
> Check out some of SD, opening tag was fun and cesaro/orton was decent ,oddly worked match. But kinda like Nostiagla in that my interest in the product is at an all time low (well close to) and I'll probably take a break from wrestling after mania or maybe after ec TBH



She definitely rode Space Mountain last night brother :flair3

I still need to watch the Ginger Force 5 tag from Raw on Monday. That sounds epic.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ric Flair :mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI4c5luacq0


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh good hope she had fun, that's my favorite ride at Disney World


Probably will pop a DOC in,


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Check out some of SD, opening tag was fun and cesaro/orton was decent ,oddly worked match. But kinda like Nostiagla in that my interest in the product is at an all time low (well close to) and I'll probably take a break from wrestling after mania or maybe after ec TBH


For me, Punk's left, they've destroyed Ziggler, they've destroyed Sandow. That's enough for me to lose interest. I'm glad Christian's back but WWE never do anything interesting with him, so literally the only thing left to interest me is The Shield and The Wyatt Family. And if Bray Wyatt's getting built up just to be fed to Cena at Mania, and if Ambrose gets lost in the shuffle after they super push Reigns after The Shield breaks up, then I might have to take a break from wrestling as well.


----------



## Arcturus (Jan 23, 2014)

*lol @ WWE's new "WCW greatest PPV matches" DVD*

Thunderdome Match
Ric Flair & Sting vs. The Great Muta & Terry Funk
Special Guest Referee: Bruno Sammartino
Halloween Havoc • October 28, 1989

*Jean Paul Levesque* vs. Alex Wright
Starrcade • December 27, 1994

Dennis Rodman vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Road Wild • August 14, 1999

Billy Kidman vs. Hulk Hogan
Special Guest Referee: Eric Bischoff
Slamboree • May 7, 2000

:jpl :HHH2


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/extras-wcw-ppv-matches-vol-1-wwe-blu-ray/60642/


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Honestly, I'll never stop watching wrestling, I'll just stop watching the current product if it keeps getting worse and worse. There has been enough quality stuff to happen up to around 2006 that I could spend the rest of my life finding and watching it all. Let alone all the unexplored stuff from Japan and ROH that I haven't seen.

Plus, with the Network coming out, I'm definitely making it a priority to watch as many old WCW PPV's as possible.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> After watching last nights match it seems I'll have to put my Orton hate on hold until further notice. He really has been good-great in every match he's had so far since RR. Maybe some of those dirtsheets rumors are true, that Orton is pissed at how he's being booked and has just decided to "show them" backstage that he can still go with the best of them. It doesn't excuse him for the 6 straight stinkers he put up in PPV Main Events from NoC to RR, but regardless he's definitely delivered every week since the Royal Rumble. Last night he made Cesaro look like what he is, a future main eventer.


About fucking time! The only bad match he had on PPV was the one with Big Show tbh. The Bryan matches were just average, not horrible. And the Cena matches seem to get mixed reviews but I thought both were above the average mark.



Nostalgia said:


> For me, Punk's left, they've destroyed Ziggler, they've destroyed Sandow. That's enough for me to lose interest. I'm glad Christian's back but WWE never do anything interesting with him, so literally the only thing left to interest me is The Shield and The Wyatt Family. And if Bray Wyatt's getting built up just to be fed to Cena at Mania, and if Ambrose gets lost in the shuffle after they super push Reigns after The Shield breaks up, then I might have to take a break from wrestling as well.


Take out Ziggler from this and I almost get a feeling that it's Pyro who posted this. :lol


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, the product is pretty unpromising right now. It's awful what they have been doing to Ziggler, Punk left, and Cody hasn't been of interest since HIAC. The only thing I can hope for is a Bryan win at EC, but I doubt it will happen. It seems like the WWE is starting to push the bodybuilder types again, and starting to de-push more talented guys like Ziggler. I can see this happening now, as they are burying Ziggler, and they will probably treat Amborse and Rollins as after-thoughts once the Shield breaks up and Reigns will probably be pushed to the moon, while being worse in overall than the other two, particularly Ambrose. Bryan is the only small guy who has any sort of chance that I can think of, at least in the near future.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> For me, Punk's left, they've destroyed Ziggler, they've destroyed Sandow. That's enough for me to lose interest. I'm glad Christian's back but WWE never do anything interesting with him, so literally the only thing left to interest me is The Shield and The Wyatt Family. And if Bray Wyatt's getting built up just to be fed to Cena at Mania, and if Ambrose gets lost in the shuffle after they super push Reigns after The Shield breaks up, then I might have to take a break from wrestling as well.


For me the the thing is (besides Punk's and Ziggler's current situation) every match is the same to me and just ok. Besides a orton/bryan ; ryback/sheamus and orton/cesaro I have lose interest in every match Ive seen this year 10 mins into the match. I cant get through any matches these days.


lol I sarcastically buried Ziggler in one of those threads and Pyro repped me :ti


Thinking about taking a break now tbh, idk I'll wait


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Did a top ten list for Daniel Bryan, now I'm going to do a top ten list for Cm Punk. I'm not as big of a fan of Punk as I am of Bryan, but that's only because I'm just a huge Bryan mark. Regardless, I'm a big fan of Punk and considering how he's currently gone, I'm going to go under the assumption that his WWE career is over at this point. So I'm going to name the top ten Cm Punk matches from the WWE imo as a tribute to Cm Punk. 

The last few months of Punk's career unfortunately horribly overshadows what Punk brought to the WWE when it came to his matches. He was an outstanding in ring performer, easily one of the best in the WWE during the time he was there and one of the best storytellers you will ever see in the ring. He got lazy and unmotivated during his last few times here in the WWE but when he was on his game and fully motivated, Punk could put on a great match with anyone. And here are the top ten matches from Cm Punk! (I'll use the same format as before with Bryan's best matches). 

*10. Cm Punk vs Triple H No Holds Barred Night of Champions 2011* ***3/4
_Kicking off this list is the match that many consider to be the reason as to why the Summer of Punk angle failed. In a match that Punk really needed to win after the disappointment that was his storyline with Kevin Nash, Triple H would come out on top in a match he, imo, had no business winning. Regardless, that doesn't take away from the fact that this was a great match, filled with a lot of great action and brutality that made this match feel personal. Despite Punk losing, Triple H did at least do a good job of making Punk look very good in this match, with him needing three pedigrees to take Punk down._

*9. Sheamus vs Cm Punk Main Event 2012* ***3/4
_This was the main event for the debut of the new show called Main Event (eh?), that featured the current world champions at the time squaring off against each other. With Punk playing the cocky heel role and Sheamus playing the tough face role, they incorporated that very well in this match. This was the first time these two faced each other, and I wish they could have saved that for something like a PPV or even Wrestlemania, because these guys both go very well together. Great match, with good storytelling, great pacing and back and forth action that showcased how a heel champion vs face champion match should be done. I just wish we could have seen more matches between these two._

*8. John Cena vs Cm Punk w/ Triple H as Special Guest Referee Summerslam 2011* ****
_This was one of the weaker matches these two had against each other but that doesn't take away from what it was, which was a great match that saw Punk come out on top in controversial fashion. I can't really go into much detail about this match, simply because there's not a lot I have to say about it. Just that it was a great match and certainly deserved a spot on this list. Expect more matches from Cena to be on this list (and trust me, they will be)._

*7. Daniel Bryan vs Cm Punk No DQ w/ Aj Lee as Special Guest Referee Money in the Bank 2012* ****1/4
_See my list with Daniel Bryan's matches._

*6. Cm Punk vs Jeff Hardy TLC Match Summerslam 2009* ****1/2
_This feud was outstanding. And so was this match. It's very hard to pull off a great TLC match when you only have two guys in there, but this might have been the second best one on one TLC match we've ever had, with Edge/Cena being number one imo. Great showing by both men, with Punk surprisingly looking very, very good in this match despite his previous matches with Hardy. Rather than have it be a one sided show with Punk coming out on top, both guys had their moments in this match and both guys looked incredible. In the end, Punk came out on top, and this would be Jeff's last PPV match with the WWE...thankfully. _

*5. John Cena vs Cm Punk Night of Champions 2012* ****1/2
_In what was another great match during Cm Punk's legendary 434 title reign, we saw both guys play their roles incredibly well, and saw another great match between these two, who have shown just how great they are against each other in the ring. Despite how much they previously battled, they were still able to create some new moments between the two that we can look back on in their matches and put in an outstanding match. Great storytelling, great spots, great pacing, and overall great WWE Championship match._

*4. Chris Jericho vs Cm Punk Wrestlemania 28* ****1/2
_It was best in the world vs best in the world, and they truly delivered. Both guys looked like champions in this match, and the way they did this match was pure gold. Some people might not prefer this kind of match. But in the eyes of me and everyone else, this match ruled simply because it showcased Punk and Jericho incorporating both of their styles and meshing them into this match and they just did an incredible job of making this match truly feel like a Wrestlemania-type of match. Great storyline, great match. Definitely recommend this match to anyone that is a fan of these two._

*3. Cm Punk vs John Cena Raw 2013* ****1/2
_This was a match to determine who would face the Rock at Wrestlemania 29. I can't really say a lot about this other than this match was simply incredible. The story behind it was that Cena was a guy willing to pull out all the stops to make sure he could finally beat Cm Punk, and that's what he did. Hell, even the Hurricanrana spot, despite him not doing it very well, was perfectly placed into the match. Loved some of the things they pulled out in this match, loved the storytelling, the emotion, just everything. Damn good match, especially for one that was on free TV._
*
2. Cm Punk vs Brock Lesnar No DQ Summerslam 2013* ****3/4
_Heyman guy vs Heyman guy. The Best vs the Beast. David vs Goliath. And that's exactly how you do a David vs Goliath match. This match right here is what you look to if you love those kinds of matches. They could not have done this match any better imo. The only thing that takes away the five star rating for me is the constant Paul Heyman interference, which I felt ruined the match a little. Apart from that, they just did this match perfectly. We saw Punk do a lot of things he normally doesn't do in order to take down the bigger man, which is absolutely perfect storytelling. A lot of high impact moves from Punk, a lot of moments where he took big risks just so he could take down Brock, and even busting out a few submission moves that we never saw Punk do before. Words just can't describe how incredibly well done this match was. I feel like some people don't realize this. Brock of course deserves a shit load of credit as well for this match. If you haven't seen this match, then you're missing out._
*
1. It's a tie!*
*Daniel Bryan vs Cm Punk Over the Limit 2012* *****
*Cm Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011* *****
_I couldn't decide which match to go with. While I do think Bryan/Punk did better in the ring, Punk/Cena was just so outstanding from a story and crowd involvement standpoint that I just can't decide which is better. I already did a review for the first one in my list for Daniel Bryan's best matches, so you can go back and read that one if you want._
_As for the Punk/Cena match, many people criticize this match for being sloppy at times, for having a lot of botched moves. Many people call this match overrated. But it isn't about that. Sometimes botches will happen, that shouldn't take away from the match itself. It's no different in regards to how good the match would have been if those spots weren't botched. Regardless, this was without a doubt in my mind the best match Cena and Punk had against each other, and the undisputed match of the year of 2011. With the story being that this was Punk's last match in the WWE at the time, this match took place in Punk's hometown of Chicago. The hometown emotion was absolutely incredible, and both Punk and Cena took full advantage of this. The way they worked the match, the way they worked the crowd was just unbelievable, something I feel like they are not given enough credit for. Top that off with some great and innovative spots from both guys, outstanding storytelling of a desperate Punk trying to beat a very game Cena, Punk kicking out of two AA's, Cena escaping the GTS and countering it into the STF, all the way to Johnny Ace and Mr McMahon interfering trying to screw Punk, and most importantly a match that went on for 33 minutes, it was a lot of amazing things and incredibly well done stories and moments all cultivated into one to create the first 5 star rated match that WWE had since 1997. A legendary match for a legendary PPV._


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I have taken a break from watching live for three weeks so far, but have kept up with what has been ahppening. I'll watch it live this week and vie it a chance. It's the go-home show for EC, hopefully it delivers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bro you missed out on A LOT of CM Punk matches that are better than 10 and 9.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

There's usually someone new who comes along and gets my interest. Cesaro, Bryan, Reigns and Rollins are the currents. I tend not to give a shit on how they're booked, their win loss doesn't affect me. I just care about good matches or interesting story lines so as long as they happen I'll be watching.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I mean there are still guys that I like out there : (Tony Cesaro,Swagger,Brock,Henry,rollins,bryan ) but when you lose interest in the wrestling portion in on a wrestling show, something is wrong


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is enough going in WWE right now for me to keep watching. Rarely watching anything live is a big help because I can avoid as much of the bad stuff as possible, so only seeing the good keeps me going.

Disagree with like, half that Punk list .


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I fast forward a lot of the programming which is a good way to remain interested. Watching live is a chore with all the adverts.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea there is a good 5 I wouldnt have on that list tbh


Edit: Yea I watch most if not all wwe stuff live


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Cesaro vs Orton was another good match ***1/2 

I can totally see Cesaro vs Reigns main eventing in 2 years


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't believe you put the Triple H NoC match on a top 10 Punk list, that match wasn't even good, let alone top 10. The No DQ Punk vs Henry match from Raw absolutely should be on there, it's a masterpiece. The Punk/Hardy TLC Match is good, but their Cage match the next night on Smackdown is A LOT better. Then you don't even include his match with Taker from WM 29? Come on now.

Best of Punk:

1. Punk vs Lesnar SS 2013 *****
2. Punk vs Cena MitB 2011 *****
3. Punk vs Bryan OTL 2012 ****3/4
4. Punk vs Taker WM 29 ****1/2
5. Punk vs Henry Raw ****1/2
6. Punk vs Jericho WM 28 ****1/2
7. Punk vs Hardy Cage Match ****1/2
8. Punk vs Cena Raw 2013 ****1/2
9. Punk vs Bryan MitB 2012 ****1/4
10. Punk vs Cena NoC 2012 ****1/4


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I wouldn't have Punk/Jericho that high, really didn't like that match. Replace with Cena from NOC 2012 and that's my list.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I haven't seen the Hardy/Punk cage match in so long, completely forgot it existed. OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> I haven't seen the Hardy/Punk cage match in so long, completely forgot it existed. OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD :mark:


You best be fixin' that son. That whole Punk/Hardy series was really good, but it was also one of those series where every match got a little better, a little better, then finally culminated in a classic with their Cage match. That's honestly a top 5 WWE cage match for me, I might just watch it again as it's been probably 6 months since I've seen it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont do ratings anymore but :

cena mitb
lesnar ss
cena raw 13
bryan otl/mitb ?
taker mania 29
cena noc 12
cena ss 11
hardy cage
Mysterio otl 10


I dont remember the henry raw match at all, so it more than likely will bump something off. I put otl/mitb for bryan match because I forgot which one I LOVED and one I liked, I remember being with Cody as the mitb biggest supporters. Also he had a sd match w/ rey in 2010 that was damn good


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Streak Part III


*The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton *
I feel like this was the first real "Streak" match as it seemed like Orton wanted to be the one to beat the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. It was also relieving to see a match where Undertaker was the face and heel wasn't a monster of really any kind. Orton looked like a real threat to the Undertaker here. He didn't go out there and try to cheat until the finishing stretch and he was able to hang with the Undertaker. There were some moments where it looked like Orton was about to get taken to school but he was able to break up any lengthy control segments from the Undertaker. It felt like a Streak match before things started and it felt even more like one at the end. You were left wondering, "How did he win? He shouldn't have won." There two times when I think they really had the crowd convinced that the match could end. I was surprised how short this was but they packed a lot into it. 
****3/4* 


_Casket Match:_ 
*The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry*
So we're back to the Undertaker taking on another monster. It was a brawl as you would expect but they kept it short which really helped. There wasn't much of note until the very end when we got a really cool over the top rope dive from the Undertaker and he hit the Tombstone on Henry as well. Both were good moments and really impressive. Henry was passable but that's all the credit I can give him. He was better than most of the big men that Undertaker gets stuck with but I would be lying if I said I was impressed by his performance. 
***1/2* 


_World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*The Undertaker vs. Batista(c)* 
These guys have amazing chemistry. I think every match they've had aside from the Chair Match has been great. Both guys just come out really aggressive against each other and we see two badass monsters beating the hell out of each other. The pacing was great and they really didn't try to do anything more than just go to war against each other. Normally I wouldn't be a fan of this but these guys make it work so well. There really isn’t much to say about this match because it’s just these guys beating the hell out of each other. But it was fantastic and highly entertaining. 
******


_World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*The Undertaker vs. Edge(c) *
I had seen this match a few times before but I don't think I ever really appreciated how good it really is. I mean I gave it a good rating and everything but I feel like it was for the amazing finishing stretch instead of anything else. And yeah, this has an amazing finishing stretch but that's just one part of the match that was great.

Edge's performance was just so smart. He controlled a lot of the match and I loved the way he would start his control segments. There were two instances where he got the advantage just because the Undertaker messed up. On one instance he hit the ground too hard on a corner spot when he sailed over the top rope and in another instance Undertaker went for a Last Ride when his back was still bothering him. Edge took advantage of both of these mistakes and was able to take control of the match. There was also the fact that Edge consistently was reversing Undertaker's go to moves. If the Undertaker had a signature move chances are Edge countered or reversed it in some way. He looked smart. If Undertaker gave him an inch he took a mile and he looked like he knew the Undertaker inside and out. His offense was consistent as he worked the back area of the Undertaker most of the time and there was never anything that he did that came across as dumb. He also took a bump from the top rope to the floor that was just brutal. Knowing the condition of his neck/back I cringed when I saw the bump he took. 

The Undertaker was the Undertaker. He had another performance where you were wondering just how he was able to pull off the win. His dive, no matter how many times you see it, is just so impressive. Everything else he did looked good and he played his role really well as the face that was trying to overcome the heel that seemed to be one step ahead of him the whole time. The only thing that I can really complain about was that he had a bunch of minor comebacks but he didn't really have this amazing comeback where he just goes crazy. I like when there's that big change in momentum and in this match it felt like the best change Undertaker was able to make happen was from Edge being in control to him getting things to an even match up. 

And the finish was just amazing. There was a good call back to the Batista/Undertaker Hell in a Cell where Edge brought a camera into the ring. Charles Robinson did his epic run. And there was a moment where, maybe just for second, you thought you were going to see Edge win. When he hit that second Spear there was almost this gasp in the crowd. Of course Undertaker reversed into Hell's Gate to end the match but that second where it looked like Undertaker might not be able to pull it off was pretty amazing. There was a memorable ending to a brilliant match. I'm honestly close to going even higher on this. Had Edge's control segments been a little more intense I think I would go higher.
*****1/2 *​


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bro you missed out on A LOT of CM Punk matches that are better than 10 and 9.


Name them. Come on, you can't just say I missed a lot of them and then not name them.



Cactus Jack said:


> I can't believe you put the Triple H NoC match on a top 10 Punk list, that match wasn't even good, let alone top 10. The No DQ Punk vs Henry match from Raw absolutely should be on there, it's a masterpiece. The Punk/Hardy TLC Match is good, but their Cage match the next night on Smackdown is A LOT better. Then you don't even include his match with Taker from WM 29? Come on now.


To me his match with HHH was very good. I think a lot of people shit on the match because of the result. 

And yes, I didn't include his match with Taker at WM. I didn't even consider that match, because I didn't think it was a very good match. I thought about putting his no DQ match with Henry there, it was a toss up between his match with HHH and his match with Henry and a few other matches. In the end I went with his HHH match. 

And I put the TLC match rather than the Steel Cage match simply because of how impressive the TLC match was. I honestly felt the TLC match was better anyways, but I just felt the TLC match was much more significant given how well they did it. 



Cactus Jack said:


> Best of Punk:
> 
> 1. Punk vs Lesnar SS 2013 *****
> 2. Punk vs Cena MitB 2011 *****
> ...


Good list, but realistically mines better  

Seriously though, we all have our tastes. You're questioning me having Punks match with HHH on my list, which I can understand. I on the other hand think that having his match with Taker at number 4, let alone on your list, is stupid. But again, we all have different tastes.



King Cal said:


> There is enough going in WWE right now for me to keep watching. Rarely watching anything live is a big help because I can avoid as much of the bad stuff as possible, so only seeing the good keeps me going.
> 
> Disagree with like, half that Punk list .


Christ, name the reason here. I give the other guy some credit at least he gave me an actual list and reasons as to why he thinks my list sucked.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Name them. Come on, you can't just say I missed a lot of them and then not name them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't realize there were people who didn't LOVE the Punk/Taker match from Mania this year, that match EASILY stole the show and kept it from being tied with WM 27 as the worst Mania of the last 10 years. Punk puts in a fabulous heel performance and Heyman works his magic from the outside ("You were a 1/2 second away from breaking the Streak! You are building momentum!" :mark You can honestly watch the HHH/Punk and Taker/Punk matches back to back and come away liking the HHH match more? Crazy, I know everyone has an opinion but that one is awfully far out. Up until Brock/Punk happened, it was my MOTY for 2013.

Watched the Ginger Force 5/Real Americans tag from Raw. As good as everyone was making it out to be. Maybe WWE will see the reaction SHEAMUS and Cesaro got and decide to put them in a feud against each other, every once in a while they throw us ring quality fans a bone and give us a great feud to enjoy week in and week out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: lol @ WWE's new "WCW greatest PPV matches" DVD*



Arcturus said:


> Thunderdome Match
> Ric Flair & Sting vs. The Great Muta & Terry Funk
> Special Guest Referee: Bruno Sammartino
> Halloween Havoc • October 28, 1989
> ...


:lol Even though i don't do Blu Ray yet  Those extras are cracking me up, the Thunderdome match hell yeah, but the others? Fucking hell, and putting a god damn HHH match on there, jeez.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I didn't realize there were people who didn't LOVE the Punk/Taker match from Mania this year, that match EASILY stole the show and kept it from being tied with WM 27 as the worst Mania of the last 10 years. Punk puts in a fabulous heel performance and Heyman works his magic from the outside ("You were a 1/2 second away from breaking the Streak! You are building momentum!" :mark You can honestly watch the HHH/Punk and Taker/Punk matches back to back and come away liking the HHH match more? Crazy, I know everyone has an opinion but that one is awfully far out. Up until Brock/Punk happened, it was my MOTY for 2013.


I can't see how anyone would like the match. It was all over the place. There was no story, no logic, nothing. The feud was extremely personal, for the first time in a while for a feud that the Undertaker was featured in going into Wrestlemania. And yet despite this, it wasn't treated as such at all. It was just the same routine formula. Matches like Christian/Orton no holds barred or Edge/Taker HIAC are the kinds of matches you should be having in matches like these. Instead it was your basic back and forth match. I normally don't have a problem with that. Sometimes it works out for the best anyways. Jericho/Michaels from WM 19 is probably the best example of that. But here, it just didn't work. Nothing worked. 

Let me give an example. When Punk took advantage (and he did so by countering Taker's old school move, and in the process injuring Taker's left arm a little, and I'll admit this was definitely a cool spot), he started working on Takers left arm. He hits numerous moves on it, and then adds insult to injury by doing Taker's old school move. This is all good and everything, I liked it. But then all of a sudden, we see Punk put Taker in a rest hold that works on Taker's arm. I wouldn't have a problem with that, if it WASN'T THE WRONG FUCKING ARM. Literally, go back and watch the match. Taker gets put in like a two minute rest hold where Punk is going to work on Taker's right arm, NOT the left arm that he had just got done working on. It's made worse immediately by the fact that Punk went back to the left arm afterwords.

Another example is when Punk tried doing Old School a second time on Taker, and he just randomly tripped while he was on the top rope. I mean, that's a good idea, it shows us that Punk is inexperienced with the move, but it just doesn't make any sense when you consider the fact that Punk had just got done successfully completing the move not to long ago. It was very lazy of them, it's Taker and Punk. They are better than this. Something a little more original and something that actually made sense would have been much better for a spot like that.

Want another? Okay. Taker goes for a running leg drop into the corner, Punk rolls out of the way, and Taker goes knee first into the turnbuckle. Taker starts to act like he hurt his knee. Considering how most of Taker's moves require him to be on his feet, it would make a lot of sense to start attacking the knee. Instead, Punk just does a random double axe handle to the outside, two neck breakers and doesn't take advantage of the sudden knee injury in anyway. It was just really, really bad storytelling. Two guys just having a bunch of pretty moves doesn't make a match great, and considering how Punk's supposed to be the heel in the match, explain to me how that's great heel work? 

A few other cringe worthy moments from that match were the unnecessary elbow drop into the announce table (well that and the fact that Punk sat there for an hour looking back and forth at the turnbuckle as if he had never done the move before, even though he has done it numerous times in his career, oh and the table not breaking certainly didn't help), Taker completely no selling the GTS and hitting the Tombstone, which Punk is able to kick out of, and Taker getting distracted by Heyman, having no clue that Punk even went around the corner of the ring, and then just randomly lets Heyman go, turns around and runs into a flying clothesline from Punk. It didn't make the slightest amount of sense and it was a very poorly done spot.

I understand we all have our tastes, but it was not a good match. I hate it when people call this a match of the year candidate. It wasn't. All it did was follow the same damn formula that Taker's other matches with Triple H, Michaels and Edge did. It had no creativity, no storytelling, nothing. It had some cool moments, but apart from that, it was nothing special. Everyone liking it doesn't change that for me. I feel the same exact way about a few other matches that everyone loved like HBK/Taker WM 26 and HBK/Angle WM 21. Spotfest matches that had little to no story and just felt like matches where they were just setting up for the next spot. 

At least with Punk/HHH, you had something that made sense. HHH had gotten tired of all the things Punk had been saying about him and his family, after all this time all he was trying to do was help. And Punk had been convinced at this point that HHH was doing everything he could to hold Punk down. So they both had a huge problem with each other. And you could feel that in the match. That is not the case with Punk/Taker. And anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> I can't see how anyone would like the match. It was all over the place. There was no story, no logic, nothing. The feud was extremely personal, for the first time in a while for a feud that the Undertaker was featured in going into Wrestlemania. And yet despite this, it wasn't treated as such at all. It was just the same routine formula. Matches like Christian/Orton no holds barred or Edge/Taker HIAC are the kinds of matches you should be having in matches like these. Instead it was your basic back and forth match. I normally don't have a problem with that. Sometimes it works out for the best anyways. Jericho/Michaels from WM 19 is probably the best example of that. But here, it just didn't work. Nothing worked.
> 
> Let me give an example. When Punk took advantage (and he did so by countering Taker's old school move, and in the process injuring Taker's left arm a little, and I'll admit this was definitely a cool spot), he started working on Takers left arm. He hits numerous moves on it, and then adds insult to injury by doing Taker's old school move. This is all good and everything, I liked it. But then all of a sudden, we see Punk put Taker in a rest hold that works on Taker's arm. I wouldn't have a problem with that, if it WASN'T THE WRONG FUCKING ARM. Literally, go back and watch the match. Taker gets put in like a two minute rest hold where Punk is going to work on Taker's right arm, NOT the left arm that he had just got done working on. It's made worse immediately by the fact that Punk went back to the left arm afterwords.
> 
> ...



Just because a match doesn't go how YOU think it should have gone doesn't mean it lacks story telling or is just a bunch of moves. Just because Taker hits his leg on a turnbuckle doesn't mean that it should then become the focus of the match. A guy takes a suplex, he gets up and sells his back, does that mean every time someone hits a suplex on someone that the back should then become the point of focus? No, not at all. 

You explained your own question with Punk falling on the Old School move. He's unexperienced. It's not his move to do. Just because someone does something one time does not make them a master of said move, so Punk hitting it once, then going for it again to add even more insult but slipping and falling in the procress fits perfectly within the story. The story being that Punk was doing every evil thing he could think of to get into Taker's head and play mind games with him, causing him to lose the Streak. In the end this plan backfires and his own ego gets in the way with him going for Old School again and falling. It's perfect. The GTS that Taker "No Sold" wasn't actually hit, watch the match again, it was meant to show Punk not connecting with the move 100% therefore Taker gained the upper hand and leveled him with a Tombstone.

To be honest, all your gripes seem to be that the match wasn't worked EXACTLY the way you wanted it to be, not that Punk and Taker did anything wrong, just that you would have set it up differently. That's fine, there are TONS and TONS of matches that fall into that category for me, but it doesn't cause me to underrate them or call the senseless spotfests. Calling Taker/Punk WM 29 a senseless move fest is just flat wrong. You just didn't understand the story or didn't like the way it was being told.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously? I haven't heard anything negative. I'm excited to watch it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't know if memorable, but Bryan had good matches with Sheamus (after the draft, and when Sheamus won the US title), Rhodes (I remember Bryan being the hometown hero) and Miz (2/14).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: lol @ WWE's new "WCW greatest PPV matches" DVD*



Arcturus said:


> Thunderdome Match
> Ric Flair & Sting vs. The Great Muta & Terry Funk
> Special Guest Referee: Bruno Sammartino
> Halloween Havoc • October 28, 1989
> ...


Are you fucking kidding me?


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Jean Paul Levesque vs. Alex Wright is a great match. A very underrated classic.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Those are the extras if that makes it any better. 

And the set looks intriguing but there's no way I'm going to buy it with the Network coming when I already have access to all of those matches.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

They may be extras, but they're lame extras (except for the Thunderdome match).


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Just because a match doesn't go how YOU think it should have gone doesn't mean it lacks story telling or is just a bunch of moves.


That isn't the case though and you know it. In fact I even said that sometimes matches that don't go the way they should go can still turn out to be great.



Cactus Jack said:


> Just because Taker hits his leg on a turnbuckle doesn't mean that it should then become the focus of the match.


When someone critically hurts their leg and is crutching in pain over it for a minute or so, that's the body part you should be going after, especially when the guy you're facing does moves such as the chokeslam, old school, last ride, the tombstone, and has a submission move that requires him to use his fucking legs. 



Cactus Jack said:


> A guy takes a suplex, he gets up and sells his back, does that mean every time someone hits a suplex on someone that the back should then become the point of focus? No, not at all.


That's a completely different situation, not a very valid comparison. 



Cactus Jack said:


> You explained your own question with Punk falling on the Old School move. He's unexperienced. It's not his move to do. Just because someone does something one time does not make them a master of said move, so Punk hitting it once, then going for it again to add even more insult but slipping and falling in the procress fits perfectly within the story.


He's inexperienced but it's still very stupid to have the guy fall like that when he was just able to hit it to perfection earlier. Not to mention, how uninspiring can you get? I've seen Taker and Punk perform in the ring, there's a million ways they could have went with that spot and they chose that one? Really? 



Cactus Jack said:


> The story being that Punk was doing every evil thing he could think of to get into Taker's head and play mind games with him, causing him to lose the Streak.


That's not what defines a heel. Faces do this too. 



Cactus Jack said:


> In the end this plan backfires and his own ego gets in the way with him going for Old School again and falling. It's perfect. The GTS that Taker "No Sold" wasn't actually hit, watch the match again, it was meant to show Punk not connecting with the move 100% therefore Taker gained the upper hand and leveled him with a Tombstone.


It was clearly stated that Punk hit the move perfectly on Taker. The commentators literally say this over and over again. He hit the move, and then Taker came right back and hit the Tombstone Piledriver. Don't try to make things up to defend the spot. What happened happened. 



Cactus Jack said:


> To be honest, all your gripes seem to be that the match wasn't worked EXACTLY the way you wanted it to be, not that Punk and Taker did anything wrong, just that you would have set it up differently. That's fine, there are TONS and TONS of matches that fall into that category for me, but it doesn't cause me to underrate them or call the senseless spotfests. Calling Taker/Punk WM 29 a senseless move fest is just flat wrong. You just didn't understand the story or didn't like the way it was being told.


Oh I understood the story perfectly. And it didn't make sense. None of it did. Again, you can't defend what happened. You're trying to defend the old school spot as if Punk stealing Taker's moves was something that had happened the entire time. That wasn't the case. Old School was basically the only thing Punk was stealing from Taker. So again, him going for Old School twice made NO SENSE, especially after he had already hit it once. He didn't need to do it again. Regardless of his ego, it was an idiotic move. If he failed it the first time, it would have made perfect sense. But there was no reason to do it a second time.

And of course I would have it set up differently. The same thing could be said for everyone else who say they hate a certain match. That's usually how it is, so I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. There was no story told in this match. Just because for about 2-4 minutes, they are working on a body part and something happens, doesn't mean anything. That's not storytelling. You have to make everything seem like it happens for a reason and make everything fall into place. That was not the case here. You can't say that about HHH/Punk.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I believe the commentators simply missed the que from the performers in the ring when it comes to the GTS spot. Even if they didn't, I have no problems with it. Do you enjoy the HBK/Taker Hell in a Cell match? Even if you don't, it's widely considered one of if not THE greatest match in WWE history. Remember the spot that causes the match to be taken outside the cell? HBK hits a clean SCM on Taker, Taker no sells it, and HBK books it out of the ring like he had just seen a ghost. It fits Takers character. Again, I really believe they meant to have the GTS not connect fully and the commentators were just too stupid to pick up on it, but if that's not what happened, it does not change my opinion one single bit. If it changes yours, so be it, but it must be awfully hard to impress you if some no selling by the Phenom can ruin a match. 

My points were all valid, you're opinion is in the less than 1% minority here. You're better off trying to defend the Nazis exterminating the Jews then arguing that Triple H/Punk is a superior match to Taker/Punk WM 29.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Correct me if I'm wrong wasnt the story behind Punk/Taker that Punk/heyman took the urn which were the source of Taker's inhuman abilities ? (Kayfabe people) and during the match Punk was toying with him early on and mocking him by doing his moves ?

Punk/HHH noc 11 doesnt deserve to be in the same post as Punk/taker tbh


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After watching the Vader Timeline, he mentioned doing his 'Moonsault' for the first time, was this the match anyone know:

Big Van Vader & Sid Vicious vs. Sting & Davey Boy Smith (Beach Blast 7/18/93)

Thanks.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I believe the commentators simply missed the que from the performers in the ring when it comes to the GTS spot. Even if they didn't, I have no problems with it. Do you enjoy the HBK/Taker Hell in a Cell match? Even if you don't, it's widely considered one of if not THE greatest match in WWE history. Remember the spot that causes the match to be taken outside the cell? HBK hits a clean SCM on Taker, Taker no sells it, and HBK books it out of the ring like he had just seen a ghost. It fits Takers character. Again, I really believe they meant to have the GTS not connect fully and the commentators were just too stupid to pick up on it, but if that's not what happened, it does not change my opinion one single bit. If it changes yours, so be it, but it must be awfully hard to impress you if some no selling by the Phenom can ruin a match.
> 
> My points were all valid, you're opinion is in the less than 1% minority here. You're better off trying to defend the Nazis exterminating the Jews then arguing that Triple H/Punk is a superior match to Taker/Punk WM 29.


The no-sell is badass, only Taker can pull it off. I just thought the bouncing off the ropes wasn't the way to do it, do the sit up. But either way, it adds to the spectacle of the match.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I believe the commentators simply missed the que from the performers in the ring when it comes to the GTS spot. Even if they didn't, I have no problems with it. Do you enjoy the HBK/Taker Hell in a Cell match? Even if you don't, it's widely considered one of if not THE greatest match in WWE history. Remember the spot that causes the match to be taken outside the cell? HBK hits a clean SCM on Taker, Taker no sells it, and HBK books it out of the ring like he had just seen a ghost. It fits Takers character. Again, I really believe they meant to have the GTS not connect fully and the commentators were just too stupid to pick up on it, but if that's not what happened, it does not change my opinion one single bit. If it changes yours, so be it, but it must be awfully hard to impress you if some no selling by the Phenom can ruin a match.


I'm not sure if you remember this but the story of this was that superkick was that it never had an affect on the Undertaker. A very different circumstance. Basically through his entire career, the superkick has had little to no effect on Taker. Hell Michaels once eliminated Taker with it, all he did was go over the top rope and stare right back up at Michaels. In fact I think that was the year after they were both the last two guys in the Rumble, but I could be wrong. 



Cactus Jack said:


> My points were all valid, you're opinion is in the less than 1% minority here. You're better off trying to defend the Nazis exterminating the Jews then arguing that Triple H/Punk is a superior match to Taker/Punk WM 29.


Not a single thing you just stated there was true. Even in the fact that you just tried to compare pro wrestling to something like the Nazi's is just straight up stupid. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try bringing something like that into this.

And all of my points are valid too, so far you haven't really made any points that disproved what I've said, and you still haven't said anything about the arm rest hold, rope clothesline and elbow drop spot. Again, it's a matter of opinion. If I was simply a fan of Pro Wrestling with a lot of indepth knowledge like you do, I probably would have liked Punk/Taker more. But I've actually gone through training for Pro Wrestling before. I know what wrestlers usually want to do out there when they wrestle a match. So what I look for in a great match isn't the same in regards to what you look for in a match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> After watching the Vader Timeline, he mentioned doing his 'Moonsault' for the first time, was this the match anyone know:
> 
> Big Van Vader & Sid Vicious vs. Sting & Davey Boy Smith (Beach Blast 7/18/93)
> 
> Thanks.


Not sure if that's right, the earliest match I remember seeing it was his Starrcade match with Flair, but that tag match is obviously before it.

Where is this Vader timeline you and Cal have been talking about? Can you only download it through XML or torrent?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sheamus & Christian vs. Cesaro & Swagger ***3/4

Cesaro vs. Orton ***3/4


Those were two very good matches. BUT, and I cannot stress this enough, WWE's camerawork and directing give me headaches. They're the worst I've ever seen in modern wrestling. It takes away from potential enjoyment.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm not going to jump into the "Why Taker/Punk is so awesome" argument as Cactus Jack seemed to cover it, but how anyone at all could possibly consider Punk/HHH... or half of the matches on that list from TheGMofGods, above Taker/Punk is beyond me, even reading through the debate, it doesn't make any sense to me. Simply put, Taker/Punk has just about everything I could want in a match. Great pace, great story, good psychology, great sequences, a fully invested crowd, a great near-fall and the right winner. \

But anyway...

Top 10 Punk Matches:

(****)
10) vs. Morrison ECW 9/1/07
9) vs. Taker SD September 2010
8) vs. Jericho WM28
7) vs. Ziggler Raw November 2011
6) vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
(****1/4)
5) vs. Jeff Hardy SS 09
4) vs. Cena MITB 11
(****1/2)
3) vs. Bryan OTL 12
(****3/4)
2) vs. Taker WM29
1) vs. Lesnar SS 13


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Name them. Come on, you can't just say I missed a lot of them and then not name them.


Sorry dude I was on mobile, but here are 20 matches that I would put above the Sheamus and the Triple H match. Don't get me wrong though, I really like those matches. But this is CM Punk we are talking about here.



Spoiler: Punk



vs. Jeff Hardy 8/29/09
vs. Chris Jericho Extreme Rules 2012
vs. Daniel Bryan 2/21/12
vs. John Morrison 9/1/07
vs. John Cena 8/22/11
vs. Rey Mysterio Capital Punishment
vs. Rey Mysterio Armageddon 2008
vs. Mark Henry 4/2/11
vs. Mark Henry 4/16/11
vs. Alberto Del Rio Survivor Series 2011
vs. Miz/Del Rio TLC 2011
vs. Cena/Del Rio Hell in a Cell 2011
vs. Daniel Bryan 1/30/12
vs. Jeff Hardy Bash 2009
vs. William Regal 1/19/09
vs. Dolph Ziggler 11/21/11
MITB 2008
vs. Undertaker 10/9/10
vs. Daniel Bryan/Kane No Way Out 2012
vs. Ryback 1/7/13


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH/Punk is damn good without the horrible finish. Much better than most of what Punk did after SummerSlam in 2011 (hell in a cell, TLC, Vengeance....hell, I much, much, much preferred it to the dull ass title win at Survivor Series. fuck that match, actually.).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck the HHH match, fuck the Del Rio SVS match, fuck the HIAC, fuck the tag. Huh, outside of the Cena matches I really don't think I like Punk's 2011, at least on PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Fuck the HHH match, fuck the Del Rio SVS match, fuck the HIAC, fuck the tag. Huh, outside of the Cena matches I really don't think I like Punk's 2011, at least on PPV.


I know it's before the SOP storyline but Punk/Mysterio from Capital Punishment was pretty good, imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think I ever actually sat through... any of that PPV lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If I recall it's really the only thing worth watching from it. I don't remember Orton/Christian being as good as their other matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ooooo the MSG house show from December has been posted on XWT:

WWE @ Madison Square Garden 12/26/2013 

Total Runtime: 2hr 46mins 

1. Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio 
2. Brodus Clay vs. Zack Ryder 
3. Kaitlyn, Alicia Fox, Rosa Mendes & Aksana vs. Bellas, Cameron & Naomi 
4. Curtis Axel vs. Sin Cara 
5. Curtis Axel vs. Great Khali 
6. Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs. Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger (Steel Cage Match) 
7. Los Matadores vs. 3MB 
8. Big Show vs. Kane (Special Guest Referee: Booker T) 
9. John Cena vs. Randy Orton 

Card looks AWFUL... with the exception of a certain tag team cage match :mark:. If nobody does it before me, I'll slice the match out and upload it once the show downloads for me .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Ooooo the MSG house show from December has been posted on XWT:
> 
> WWE @ Madison Square Garden 12/26/2013
> 
> ...


 Alberto/Mysterio was probably good but that match has been done to death. Unless they do a big Mania match with a Hair vs Mask stip for Rey's retirement, I just have no interest really in seeing it again. Which is sad, because Rey is one of the all time greats and ADR doesn't bother me at all and is rather good in the ring. That steel cage tag sounds EXCELLENT though would love to see it.


Capitol Punishment Rey/Punk was really really good, if that's the Hair vs Mask match where Punk gets busted open then sheered afterwards. Definitely worth a watch Cal, but I think you can pass on the remainder of the show, as Orton/Christian wasn't that good and not neatly up to their normal standards.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Ooooo the MSG house show from December has been posted on XWT:
> 
> WWE @ Madison Square Garden 12/26/2013
> 
> ...



2 Curtis Axel matches in one night? :duncan Id be pissed if I was there. Not that hes a terrible wrestler, his style is just so dry and uninteresting


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just watched For All Mankind: The Life and Career of Mick Foley and it is an amazing documentary. It really puts into perspective as to how courageous Foley was to put his body on the line in a way not a lot of people do and how he does it for our entertainment. It also showcases how much of a great talent, a professional, and a great human being in general Foley is. I loved how they talk about his beginnings training to become a wrestler, how he came up with characters and their mannerisms such as Dude Love, Cactus Jack, and Mankind and how they talk about his matches with HBK, Taker at Hell in a Cell, Orton, and Edge and how unselfish he was to put those guys over. Just an amazing documentary and I highly recommend it not only to Foley marks but to people who enjoy wrestling documentaries.

Side note: Foley's daughter is FINE.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

TheGMofGods said:


> It was clearly stated that Punk hit the move perfectly on Taker. The commentators literally say this over and over again. He hit the move, and then Taker came right back and hit the Tombstone Piledriver. Don't try to make things up to defend the spot.


Bullshit.

One of the commentators immediately says "I don't think Punk got all of it. Looks like he scratched the chest" before the others plug it as hitting. Commentary say some dumb shit and really are just a translator of the match narrative to the audience. They are prone to being wrong or working spots to kayfabe (Taker has inhuman powers).

I distinctly remember those words, however, because I was the sole guy defending that spot after the match. Taker gets hit in the chest and comes back at Punk for being careless.

As for working "the wrong arm", Punk is servicing the second arm knowing the first was out of action at that point. Holds or workovers shouldn't always lead to some "end goal". They work the opponent down to allow for the end to happen. Punk could see Taker had a good arm left to punch if things got tight and he took that opportunity down a notch. He then goes back to the other because he doesn't want to relent to the point that Taker can make a comeback with it. He had his main source and stuck with it.

Punk has to be pretty fucking dumb to work over the right arm by mistake when 99% of wrestling workover is done to the left limb purely to ensure the wrestler can remember what to work.

When my PC is working again I will reply to the other points. Can't type so eloquently on the app


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Match lacked drama which imo makes it not even near a classic. Everybody knew that he wasn't breaking the streak and everybody knew he's a poor mans Shawn Michaels and HBK himself was barely a believable opponent for UT in the first place. My rating would be somewhere under four stars.



> As for working "the wrong arm", Punk is servicing the second arm knowing the first was out of action at that point. Holds or workovers shouldn't always lead to some "end goal". They work the opponent down to allow for the end to happen. Punk could see Taker had a good arm left to punch if things got tight and he took that opportunity down a notch. He then goes back to the other because he doesn't want to relent to the point that Taker can make a comeback with it.


wow talk about defending to the death. that is as you said "bullshit". he botched. /end story of arms


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone that ever bought into a near fall against The Undertaker at Mania is a damn fool.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

There's only two Undertaker nearfalls worth falling for at Wrestlemania

vs. Orton - RKO
vs. HHH (27) - Tombstone


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Alim said:


> There's only two Undertaker nearfalls worth falling for at Wrestlemania
> 
> *vs. Orton - RKO*
> vs. HHH (27) - Tombstone


THIS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Not sure if that's right, the earliest match I remember seeing it was his Starrcade match with Flair, but that tag match is obviously before it.
> 
> Where is this Vader timeline you and Cal have been talking about? Can you only download it through XML or torrent?


Yeah, Vader mentioned it was in a match involving those people. I grabbed the Timeline from the Multimedia Section on here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody Rhodes & Goldust Vs The Real Americans - MSG 26.12.2013 Cage

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kufJHhU3ytluhx5u9lf


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Finished Backlash 2005 the other night & it is still a fantastic show :clap

Batista/Triple H II is really bad though, thank god they had the HIAC match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally thought Batista/HHH was really good at Backlash... until Batista completely no sold the entire match worth of back work so he could do all his signature moves and win.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Take out Ziggler from this and I almost get a feeling that it's Pyro who posted this. :lol


:lmao Not the first time I've got a Pyro comparison. Pyro would mention Barrett though and take a shot at Orton somehow. Barrett's another one who's been totally destroyed, I used to like him, but they've ruined him to the point I just don't care for him anymore. Sandow's probably the same at this point with me tbh, but I still mentioned him. Ziggler I'll still mark for no matter what they do with him because I've been a fan of his for so long and I'm so used to his booking.



RhodesForWHC said:


> Yeah, the product is pretty unpromising right now. It's awful what they have been doing to Ziggler, Punk left, and Cody hasn't been of interest since HIAC. The only thing I can hope for is a Bryan win at EC, but I doubt it will happen. It seems like the WWE is starting to push the bodybuilder types again, and starting to de-push more talented guys like Ziggler. I can see this happening now, as they are burying Ziggler, and they will probably treat Amborse and Rollins as after-thoughts once the Shield breaks up and Reigns will probably be pushed to the moon, while being worse in overall than the other two, particularly Ambrose. Bryan is the only small guy who has any sort of chance that I can think of, at least in the near future.


Rhodes's has lost a lot of steam. Look how hot he was at Battleground, now he doesn't get much reaction. Instead of WWE following up on how hot they were after the storyline where they got their jobs back they instead just became bodies in big tag matches and did a lot of jobs. They won the belts, didn't do much with them, lost them to NAO, and now what is their direction? Hopefully it is Goldust/Cody at Mania but I read a thread the other day about a Goldust tweet saying that might not happen now. People have wanted this match at Mania for the past 3 years, I remember old posts from early 2012 about people wanting it for WM28, and if it doesn't happen now it will be sad. :lmao 



SKINS said:


> For me the the thing is (besides Punk's and Ziggler's current situation) every match is the same to me and just ok. Besides a orton/bryan ; ryback/sheamus and orton/cesaro I have lose interest in every match Ive seen this year 10 mins into the match. I cant get through any matches these days.
> 
> 
> lol I sarcastically buried Ziggler in one of those threads and Pyro repped me :ti
> ...


Matches being the same is another thing. I have no interest in watching Orton facing everyone of his Elimination Chamber opponents in singles matches, nor do I have a interest in seeing random thrown together big tag matches every week, always involving The Shield or The Wyatt Family, I don't care how good they are, they're completely overdone and I'm tired of seeing them. That's why when I reviewed Smackdown a few weeks back I only reviewed Ziggler/Cesaro and Christian/Swagger as those matches interested me, and didn't bother with the big tag match main event number #2525734. 

The Shield vs The Wyatt Family is the only big tag match that interests me at this point.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Alim said:


> There's only two Undertaker nearfalls worth falling for at Wrestlemania
> 
> vs. Orton - RKO
> vs. HHH (27) - Tombstone


Fucking this. 

I thought Punk/Taker was just good. Like, *** good, nothing more. The entire match was just... there. Punk being a dick, hitting him with urn, Taker's usual Mania schtick, "fake" suspense... Eh, been there done that.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Personally thought Batista/HHH was really good at Backlash... until Batista completely no sold the entire match worth of back work so he could do all his signature moves and win.


I thought that too until i re-watched it, but it just get's rally smozzy & Chioda takes a ref bump and is unconscious for like 5 minutes even though Triple H picks him and slaps him and then he just crumbles to the mat again :lol & the finish was the best, Triple H low blows Batista who backs into the corner so instead of going for the Pedigree like he has all match Triple H randomly goes for a 10 punch in the corner and get's the super Batista Bomb :lmao :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I liked HHH/Batista II more than their mania match, it wasn't great, but I gave it ***

What did you think of Shelton/Jericho from that show? I LOVE that match :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> I liked HHH/Batista II more than their mania match, it wasn't great, but I gave it ***
> 
> What did you think of Shelton/Jericho from that show? I LOVE that match :mark:


Shelton/Jericho is fantastic just like Benoit/Edge.

But that Hogan pop is :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is Backlash where they bring out that fat guy from the audience with the Hogan tattoo on his back?

That was just gross. :lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Batista/HHh's matches were bad, aside from their HiaC one


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> One of the commentators immediately says "I don't think Punk got all of it. Looks like he scratched the chest" before the others plug it as hitting. Commentary say some dumb shit and really are just a translator of the match narrative to the audience. They are prone to being wrong or working spots to kayfabe (Taker has inhuman powers).
> 
> I distinctly remember those words, however, because I was the sole guy defending that spot after the match. Taker gets hit in the chest and comes back at Punk for being careless.


The actual quote is Cole saying "Did he catch him? I don't know if he-- oh no, no!"(reacting to UT). Taker does the classic no sell delivery, haphazardly hitting the Tombstone, groggy pin, sell after kick out. And yeah, commentators say some dumb shit - Cole called Punk's counter of the Old School a "*deep* arm drag" when it was anything but. I didn't have a problem with it (the no-sell), or at least not to where it took away from the match to me.



> As for working "the wrong arm", Punk is servicing the second arm knowing the first was out of action at that point. Holds or workovers shouldn't always lead to some "end goal". They work the opponent down to allow for the end to happen. Punk could see Taker had a good arm left to punch if things got tight and he took that opportunity down a notch. He then goes back to the other because he doesn't want to relent to the point that Taker can make a comeback with it. He had his main source and stuck with it.k
> Punk has to be pretty fucking dumb to work over the right arm by mistake when 99% of wrestling workover is done to the left limb purely to ensure the wrestler can remember what to work.


He does work the wrong arm. It doesn't make Punk "fucking dumb" - perhaps careless. I just watched Jericho/Benoit 2/3 falls and Benoit hits the shoulder breaker to the wrong arm. It happens (rarely). When both arms are worked, it's usually kind of a big deal in the match - leading to the opponent selling/altering his offense/counters/comebacks. You're right though in the sense that limb work doesn't _need_ to have an endgame. Punk in this forgoes working a limb to focus on working his usual back/neck/head because that's what his endgame is (GTS/AV). When Taker gets up and out of it, he's right back to throwing rights in the tb. Again, not a big deal because like the left arm work earlier and ignoring the leg, they're just means to an end: left was to set up Punk doing the Old School, tb spot for Droppin' Bombs, and the right arm was Punk trying to stay on top of him (what's that hold Punk has him in again?) this is Wrestlemania. Working high spots, character, and cinematic moments take precedence over half-hearted limb work that we all know won't go anywhere given the rest of the match.

But really, the focus is on his character, not what he "does" in the ring. It's about those "moments" in the match (which there are about a half dozen or more). The old school, the cutthroat taunt, the stare in the AV, Punk doing the UT pin, etc. It's surprising a bit to hear people who praise the match ignore the spottiness of it. Punk plays an excellent character/heel in it, but the match itself is only average or just slightly above, considering the context. Probably ***1/2. The aura of the match and Punk's character work are good, but lacked drama and had bit of botching from the Punkster. Also agree with GM on the rope walk - could've been planned better, imo.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I will not stand for anyone talking trash about Punk/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What CAN you stand for?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

If anyone bashes Taker/Punk they must have vision problems.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Personally, I thought Punk/Taker was a very good match. It might be exaggerated to me, since the other two Main Event matches were snooze-fests, particularly Cena/Rock. HHH/Lesnar being predictable as hell didn't help much.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM 29 looks like a majestic PPV compared to what we might get this year at WM


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Rah said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> One of the commentators immediately says "I don't think Punk got all of it. Looks like he scratched the chest" before the others plug it as hitting. Commentary say some dumb shit and really are just a translator of the match narrative to the audience. They are prone to being wrong or working spots to kayfabe (Taker has inhuman powers).


That isn't what they said. I'm not even going to repeat what they said. Go back and watch the match. 



Rah said:


> As for working "the wrong arm", Punk is servicing the second arm knowing the first was out of action at that point. Holds or workovers shouldn't always lead to some "end goal". They work the opponent down to allow for the end to happen. Punk could see Taker had a good arm left to punch if things got tight and he took that opportunity down a notch. He then goes back to the other because he doesn't want to relent to the point that Taker can make a comeback with it. He had his main source and stuck with it.


Lol.

Okay, lets pretend for a second that this was the case (and btw, it wasn't), that still doesn't make a lot of sense considering how most people get out of that move anyways by standing up, there for still giving them good position to punch their opponent. I know a hurt arm is hard to hit with, but that usually won't stop someone, especially someone known for being a pure striker like Taker, from hurting you with his punches. So even if what you're saying is true (which, once again, it isn't), it still didn't make any sense.

Regardless, it was on the wrong arm. There's no ifs and or butts about it. It's a lose-lose situation. I know it's nitpicking, but the smallest things can ruin an entire match.

And I really don't understand the hate for the Punk/HHH match. I'll admit the finish could have been a lot better, but to me this is the only thing about the match that backfires. Apart from that, there isn't really anything else that was wrong with the match. I liked Miz and R-Truth interfering because in a way it made sense. It added to the drama, which is definitely something this match had. That moment when Punk kicked out of the second pedigree is a more shocking moment than anything we got from Punk/Taker. 

Although, I will admit, R-Truth costing Punk the match to me made no sense, and is one of the more cringeworthy moments I've had when watching a match. I still to this day don't know why they did that, what just because Punk beat him up?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Triple H was bad the moment the bell rang and worked like the prototypical garbage Attitude Era brawl. It didn't even need the crap in the end to flop; it only provided to add to the cause. That's Triple H match 101 for ya. Although it isn't like Punker did anything to make it better himself.

And Punk vs Taker from WM is brilliant. Why do I need fifty paragraphs to say this? I don't.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought the Attitude Era style brawl worked with Punk/HHH. It's not always a bad style. Taker/Kane from NoC 2010 was worked that way as well and it was a good brawl.

But alas, let us talk about why Starrcade 95 is so underrated.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah I did not FF, thought it was weaker than some AE brawls


LETS BRAWL ALL AROUND THE ARENA IN A WAR


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Boring trash is my personal analysis. Unlike what made the previous NOC match mentioned so good. Taker vs Kane w/the gimmick being a brawl was done about 100x better. Triple H in a brawl. Oh lordy. Why would anyone care? Unless they love his weird noises following any time he throws or takes a punch. It's a situation that clicks few and far between.

I'm more annoyed at Benoit vs Liger being cut off the Starrcade set. But we know why. God dammit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH being a terrible brawler is what sets it apart from Undertaker/Kane, since Undertaker is a tremendous brawler and Kane is decent too. Punk sucked in the NOC match as well, not just HHH. Whole thing was a shitty mess and THEN the wank finish happened.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Whole thing sucked way before the run ins tbh, dont get that claim

I just check my old ratings and gave it a * lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't remember a single thing Punk did in it, tbhayley. I prefer to ignore a lot of what the company put him in during the late 2011 stretch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Undertaker and Kane got kinda boring too, but that always happens with them together.

Eddie/Otani and Wright/Kanemoto were real good too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looking back, it's HILARIOUSLY BAD how they managed to fuck up the "Summer of Punk". Cena and Del Rio swapping the WWE title, Punk losing to HHH because... HHH is HHH, then Punk being put in a meaningless shitty tag match WITH HHH against 2 talentless losers, then Punk finally regains the title in a boring match with Del Rio. Oh and the Nash thing was dropped like a bad habit in terms of the Punk involvement and it somehow turned into a HHH thing because... HHH is HHH.

Bottom line, Punk won at SS Vs Cena... and that should have been it. No Del Rio cash in. No Nash bullshit. No HHH match. No tag crap. No Cena and Del Rio playing with the title while Punk is involved in HHH/Miz/R-Truth/Nash bullshit. Incredible that they managed to absolutely fuck up so bad. HEY THIS GUY IS THE HOTTEST THING IN THE BUSINESS IN YEARS... LETS FUCK IT UP!!!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yea, I pictured HHH/Punk as one of those ever so constant brawls from the Attitude Era, almost reached that wrestlecrap level.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That and looking back, the wwe title was in such bad shape before YEAR of PUNK reign, good lord, looked like the WHC


Ppl forget out Over he was too at the time


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This wouldn't have happened if your boy put him over in 2009 :side:

Funny how the payoff to the entire thing was Punk asking HHH to wear his clothes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Undertaker and Kane got kinda boring too, but that always happens with them together.
> 
> Eddie/Otani and Wright/Kanemoto were real good too.


Nah. I'd easily say those two have underrated chemistry. Only outright bad matches I can name were Judgment Day 1998 & Hell in a Cell 2010. A fan of all the rest. Some being pretty great.

Eddie vs Otani is a given. The only match that gets any praise from the event. Wright delivers again. Always liked DAS. When he wasn't put in the ring w/Paul Roma or Mongo, he got to show what he had. iirc the three way match was actually kind of well done. Minus the slightly confusing finish. I'd have to watch it again to know if my opinion would change. This is all in the dark.



King Cal said:


> Looking back, it's HILARIOUSLY BAD how they managed to fuck up the "Summer of Punk". Cena and Del Rio swapping the WWE title, Punk losing to HHH because... HHH is HHH, then Punk being put in a meaningless shitty tag match WITH HHH against 2 talentless losers, then Punk finally regains the title in a boring match with Del Rio. Oh and the Nash thing was dropped like a bad habit in terms of the Punk involvement and it somehow turned into a HHH thing because... HHH is HHH.
> 
> Bottom line, Punk won at SS Vs Cena... and that should have been it. No Del Rio cash in. No Nash bullshit. No HHH match. No tag crap. No Cena and Del Rio playing with the title while Punk is involved in HHH/Miz/R-Truth/Nash bullshit. Incredible that they managed to absolutely fuck up so bad. HEY THIS GUY IS THE HOTTEST THING IN THE BUSINESS IN YEARS... LETS FUCK IT UP!!!


All of it didn't even come as a surprise either. I'm a Del Rio fan, but jesus christ WWE. Trying to get that guy over at the expense of Punk? It's kind of the situation atm to an extent when you think about it. Only sub out Punk for Danielson and boom. Although, we still dunno if they're dragging that out for a planned pay off or really are the morons we think _(know)_ they are.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The only memorable thing about the HHH/Punk match is the "Wish Benoit Was Here" sign. Match was a complete clusterfuck. Other than Orton/Henry, that sign was the highlight of the whole PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Alex Wright rules. Crazy how young he was when he debuted. Something about him was so likable. Maybe it was the dance. But a German cruiserweight in a stream of Mexican and Japanese ones is good. That Dancing Fools team was nice.

I remember liking that triple threat too, but the whole match seemed to be a build up to a Luger/Sting encounter, yet their interaction was pretty bad. Flair made up most of the fun. Shame that Savage/Tenzan sucked.

NoC 2011 immediately went to shit after that monumental world title match. LOL at Kelly Kelly beating Beth Phoenix in her hometown.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember Cena/ADR and Rhodes/Dibiase being p.good on that ppv


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember Air Boom Vs Zig Zag Paddy Swagg being super fun, despite having UC in it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have any of you guys found any gems from Velocity and Heat in 2005? I was gonna ask Cody about that, but my brother accidentally pressed the submit button before I finished my sentence, so now my question looks like an Umaga promo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Air Boom/American Perfection was Vengeance Cal, or you talking about the Fatal 4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Funny how they tried to change his gimmick in 1999 when there was no reason for it. Why try and remove the young German dance gimmick away from Wright? He was still over w/the fans. Even when he'd disappear and return he still got a reaction. I credit them for trying to push him either way, although, in standard WCW fashion, it flopped and they decided to push The Wall. My stars.

I don't remember Sting vs Luger being special back when they feuded in the early 90's. So, no surprise if their work wasn't too pristine. I'm more on the side that their chemistry was better suited as a duo, rather than as opponents.

Savage vs Tenzan & Sting vs Sasaki are the two matches that are total blurs. Which shows how long it has been since I watched the event in full. They were both absurdly short - nice job WCW w/the time management in booking both to work two matches - & damn near ruined any chance at some success. They should have used Regal in one of the World Cup matches instead of Savage. They had others on the roster to fill things out. Pillman & Arn were around. Arn vs Sasaki. I'd be down.

Just read that the American Males defeated the Blue Bloods on the Main Event pre-show. Oh 1995. You tickle me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS said:


> I think Air Boom/American Perfection was Vengeance Cal, or you talking about the Fatal 4


I pulled out the wrong bluray and thought it happened at NOC .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Have any of you guys found any gems from Velocity and Heat in 2005? I was gonna ask Cody about that, but my brother accidentally pressed the submit button before I finished my sentence, so now my question looks like an Umaga promo.


Nothing yet. Although, I'm early. London vs Akio from Japan was supposedly "really good". Gosh. No it wasn't. They did chain wrestling for about seven minutes, Akio had a control segment, a minute of flashy moves and it was over. A different way to water it down for the fans in the Land of the Rising Sun. I'll try and watch a bunch of Tajiri matches on Heat and see how they fare. Two vs Steven Richards happened. Those got potential. Tajiri did already have basically the best 25 second match possible vs Viscera. I want more.

Also, you'll soon learn to grasp I often forget about rep until a worthwhile comment or something hits me. 8*D


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bryan/Orton (Raw 2014/2/3) ***

While this match had some seriously good moments and phases, there were still some ingredients that prevented it from being great, i.e. Orton's one obligatory vanilla workover per match, and Bryan's annoying comebacks that do nothing for me. In fact, I think Orton made this match good, I was way more into him and his stuff. Based on Cesaro/Orton, Bryan/Wyatt and this match, I can safely say I'd be way, way more interested in Orton than Bryan, if I followed the product regularly.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Whenever I think "Night of Champions opener", I instantly think about that awful fatal four way match which opened up Night of Champions 2012, which amazingly enough featured Rey Mysterio. The pace is slow as molasses, there is little to no intensity, and it just looks like a case of over choreographed junk that some people will eat up due to all of the near falls.

Yeah, Ziggler/Swagger Vs Kofi/Bourne is a pretty fun opener. I can't believe I just said a match that features Dolph Vs Kofi segments is fun :lol.

Seriously, that's the number one match I NEVER need to see again. That and Orton-Barrett .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn dude you're a harsh grader. Almost as harsh as how I grade 1998.

DAT SvS 98 with THIRTEEN DUDS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I might watch Cena/Orton from the MSG house show I downloaded last night.

:lmao

The tag team cage match I posted earlier if worth a watch though. Starts off fun... then slows down a little until around the half way point, then they really get their shit together and it turns into a blast. Finish is great and super impressive given how the cage looks (I was nervous any time a wrestler went into it... looked like it was just gonna fucking collapse lol) and the fact there isn't anything to hold on to like a normal TV/PPV cage with the wire from the rafters and shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say there has ever been a time where Bryan Danielson & annoying meshed together. Huh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Bryan/Orton (Raw 2014/2/3) ***
> 
> While this match had some seriously good moments and phases, there were still some ingredients that prevented it from being great, i.e. Orton's one *obligatory vanilla workover* per match, and Bryan's annoying comebacks that do nothing for me. In fact, I think Orton made this match good, I was way more into him and his stuff. Based on Cesaro/Orton, Bryan/Wyatt and this match, I can safely say I'd be way, way more interested in Orton than Bryan, if I followed the product regularly.


See this was my only gripe with the match, thought it could have been better, but still fine. I thought on the 2nd watch this match was tremendous and best thing Ive seen from Randy in a long time, better than the December match, currently my MOTY

My thought process on Orton is wait and see. Dont (not you specifically) but quick to rename him a top flight worker because he cant disregard the guys he is in the ring with currently


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

King Cal said:


> What CAN you stand for?


I knew you hated me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Now Cal's in on it. Ouch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bubz said:


> I knew you hated me.


Sorry . I actually don't know you as well as the others... so technically that makes me like you the most <3. Getting to know everyone else is probably a bad thing. THEY'RE ALL FUCKING WEIRDOS :|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Seabs is a wacko.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's definitely the worst. Selling illegal copied DVD's to satisfy his addiction. It's not right I tell ya.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal spreading that Valentine's Day WEEKEND LOVE <3.

Do you know what's a fantastic match that needs more love? Undertaker Vs Mankind from Summerslam 1996 8*D.

ANYWHOWAYS, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Orton is having a career resurgence in the ring as of now, he needs to be able to carry a few lesser opponents and wrestle a few great PPV bouts (The last "classic" he's had on PPV was with Christian in 2011 FFS) for me to change my tune on the guy. However, he's a truly hateable character on screen lately and his outside the ring stuff has been great and I can't criticize it, so he's doing a pretty damn good job there I must say. He definitely needs a few fresh opponents for sure; I'm really getting sick and tired of seeing him go against Cena, Batista, Bryan, Christian, etc... The only big face he has left to really feud with over the title is Sheamus, and that feud will probably never happen in a main event capacity because we have Cena, Bryan, Brock, & Batista up there who all need main event matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Think I might watch Cena/Orton from the MSG house show I downloaded last night.


Do you have a link? I've enjoyed their last two matches so feed me more. :ryback

Also wanna hunt down their steel cage house show match from today.



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Cal spreading that Valentine's Day WEEKEND LOVE <3.
> 
> Do you know what's a fantastic match that needs more love? Undertaker Vs Mankind from Summerslam 1996 8*D.
> 
> ANYWHOWAYS, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Orton is having a career resurgence in the ring as of now, he needs to be able to carry a few lesser opponents and wrestle a few great PPV bouts (The last "classic" he's had on PPV was with Christian in 2011 FFS) for me to change my tune on the guy. However, he's a truly hateable character on screen lately and his outside the ring stuff has been great and I can't criticize it, so he's doing a pretty damn good job there I must say. He definitely needs a few fresh opponents for sure; I'm really getting sick and tired of seeing him go against Cena, Batista, Bryan, Christian, etc... The only big face he has left to really feud with over the title is Sheamus, and that feud will probably never happen in a main event capacity because we have Cena, Bryan, Brock, & Batista up there who all need main event matches.


Batista? They haven't feuded in 5 years and that wasn't even a real feud since it got cut short and their two PPV matches didn't make 20 minutes combined. 

For Orton, the biggest fresh opponent he has out there is BROCK. Considering how good he's been recently, I have no reason to doubt this match. They should do it for SUMMERSLAM actually. It'll be ten years since Orton became the youngest World Champion on the same event, taking the title off of BROCK who achieved it two years earlier at the same event. It all adds up!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In terms of Batista, I meant that it's a match that has been attempted before and a feud that I don't think anybody willingly wants to watch in 2014.

I think we get Batista-Brock this year as Brock's "Summer Feud".

Anybody else think that if the proposed match card for Mania XXX happens, Undertaker's match will be 99.9 percent closing the show? I mean, the streak IS Wrestlemania at this point and it'll negate a ton of fan backlash. It just MAKES SENSE and I think it will happen, nearly 100 percent positive actually .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You still expect anything logical from this company?


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> In terms of Batista, I meant that it's a match that has been attempted before and a feud that I don't think anybody willingly wants to watch in 2014.
> 
> I think we get Batista-Brock this year as Brock's "Summer Feud".
> 
> Anybody else think that if the proposed match card for Mania XXX happens, Undertaker's match will be 99.9 percent closing the show? I mean, the streak IS Wrestlemania at this point and it'll negate a ton of fan backlash. It just MAKES SENSE and I think it will happen, nearly 100 percent positive actually .


If Randy/Batista is still the plan then Taker/Brock will close the show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Almost 100% sure Randy is winning Sunday, although its wwe so you never know


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's WWE's way out of this situation. Take two of the three biggest stars on the show, with something bigger than the WWE Championship on the line, and let them headline Wrestlemania XXX.

We already know that Batista-Orton will be a disaster barring a huge shift in booking. We all said the same thing about Rock-Cena II, but the only reason that wasn't shit all over at XXIX was because of the fans respect for Rock as an all time legend, something which doesn't apply to Batista or Orton.

They can either have a Brock-Goldberg situation in the middle of the show, or something that'll be probably a bigger disaster than HHH-Orton was .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> In terms of Batista, I meant that it's a match that has been attempted before and a feud that I don't think anybody willingly wants to watch in 2014.
> 
> I think we get Batista-Brock this year as Brock's "Summer Feud".
> 
> Anybody else think that if the proposed match card for Mania XXX happens, Undertaker's match will be 99.9 percent closing the show? I mean, the streak IS Wrestlemania at this point and it'll negate a ton of fan backlash. It just MAKES SENSE and I think it will happen, nearly 100 percent positive actually .


I can see that happening but there's a chance that Batista takes the summer off to promote his movie or something like that. Maybe I'm just hoping. Or maybe they have Brock use his title shot at Extreme Rules if he works that show to face Batista. Or maybe I'm just making shit up and Batista/Brock will be the SS main event. 

As for the Mania main event, I can still see Batista/Orton closing because Dave's contract likely demanded the three things he pointed out in his promo. (Rumble win, WM main event, title win) Yeah, the match will get shitted on (unless Randy saves it) but that didn't stop Rock/Cena last year from main eventing even though the crowd was dead and they booed the shit out of the handshake.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

And if HHH/Bryan is happening, Bryan should be imprisoned in his chamber cell and let gas run through it so he can't even compete.

:russo


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Do you have a link? I've enjoyed their last two matches so feed me more. :ryback


It's on XWT (the full house show). I ain't gonna waste time slicing it out and uploading it .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


> And if HHH/Bryan is happening, Bryan should be imprisoned in his chamber cell and let gas run through it so he can't even compete.
> 
> :russo


Winner gets fired right girl ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> It's on XWT (the full house show). I ain't gonna waste time slicing it out and uploading it .


Ha, I'm not asking for that. Just the link to the torrent, I tried searching but all these confusing titles give me a headache and I cba looking through all of that.

EDIT: Is it the MSG show on the second page?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Ha, I'm not asking for that. Just the link to the torrent, I tried searching but all these confusing titles give me a headache and I cba looking through all of that.
> 
> EDIT: Is it the MSG show on the second page?


Probably, was only posted last night .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought the fans reacted well to Rock-Cena II until the end result, and that's out of both respect for The Rock and the idea that somebody that the crowd liked actually had a chance to win in the main event against Cena (we all knew Cena was going to win, but there was still that slight possibility).

The thing about Orton-Batista is that it has two really shitty outcomes and can't possibly end with something the fans enjoy like Cena-Rock II had with the small probability of Rock winning. I don't think the WWE wants Brock-Goldberg 2.0 in the main event of the 30th anniversary of Wrestlemania, so it makes sense that Undertaker's match would main event due to him essentially being Wrestlemania and him not main eventing Mania in four years.

I'm curious as to how the hell they're going to book XXX though, in terms of match placement on the card and whatnot. The only place to really have Batista-Orton for the title would be before the other big three matches as Bryan's match will wear people out, and Taker's match will DEFINITELY wear people out. Why avoid a crowd disaster when WWE can have their cake and eat it too with Taker closing and Batista-Orton still happening? It's not like the Title means anything close to the streak .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, gotta be. Somebody mentioned something about two Curtis Axel matches on the same show a few pages back, so that's it.

Hope the house show from today in Phoenix, AZ gets upped too. Heard that Orton/Cena in a cage match was good plus Del Rio had a decent match with Batista.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Del rio and batista had a good match?:kobe5


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm watching this Vader Timeline (it's fabulous btw) and Vader just mentioned he had a really great tag match with Steve Austin vs Arn and Flair on TV. Does anyone by any chance have a link to this match?

P.s, Vader vs Dustin Clash of the Champions should be required viewing for everyone.  Simply amazing. The first 2 minutes alone are 2 of the greatest minutes in wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Probably, was only posted last night .


Just finished the match. Pretty standard and nothing you need to see. If you wanna watch one of their recent matches, go for the recent Raw one which I assume you skipped since you never spoke on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have no intention of ever watching ANY Orton/Cena match again except their NWO 08 match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Vader vs. Dustin is one of my favourite matches of all time. Words simply cannot do it justice. I only watched it for the first time last month, but I've seen it at least two more times since then.

Edit: I've never seen Orton/Cena NWO, does that need to change?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> I have no intention of ever watching ANY Orton/Cena match again except their NWO 08 match.






Flux said:


> Edit: I've never seen Orton/Cena NWO, does that need to change?


Needs to change RIGHT NOW!!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Vader vs. Dustin is one of my favourite matches of all time. Words simply cannot do it justice. I only watched it for the first time last month, but I've seen it at least two more times since then.
> 
> Edit: I've never seen Orton/Cena NWO, does that need to change?




I'm not a fan of any Cena/Orton matches.....EXCEPT that NWO 2008 match. It is completely different from anything else they have ever done, that is to say it's not only very good, its probably GREAT. It's the only match of theirs that captured that Ali/Frazier "big match" feel that WWE always strives for when pairing their two golden boys up. It's definitely worth the watch.

Since you did me the solid with the Vader Timeline, here you go if you are interested:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ndy-orton-vs-john-cena-wwe-championship_sport


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

TheGMofGods said:


> That isn't what they said. I'm not even going to repeat


I should have added that my quote wasn't verbatim. It was a paraphrasing (at best I know). My point was that one of the commentators had acknowledged it even if they stopped going on about it later. Him not cleanly hitting it was how I also saw the move. I understand that is a minority opinion because only I held it in April last year when everyone was talking about how rubbish the spot was. 

Still don't see any of the other points taking wind, or the point of "he's a poor man's HBK" that someone else mentioned but yeah.



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought the Summerslam 2007 match between Orton and Cena also had that big fight feel that they wanted. Good match, but horrible ending. Their match the next month was beneath the Sarkodie-Mensah scale.

Go watch Roberts/Dustin if you like the Vader match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought the Summerslam 2007 match between Orton and Cena also had that big fight feel that they wanted. Good match, but horrible ending. Their match the next month was beneath the Sarkodie-Mensah scale.


I enjoy the SS 07 match a lot too. The finish was stupid because Cena should have dropped the title by then. I don't think it's fair to base the quality of their chemistry on the Unforgiven match, though. That shit went on for about 7 minutes then the DQ happened. Was nothing more than an "story advancer" for their LMS match which should've been good but obviously never happened. At least we got the classic Orton/HHH LMS instead.

The good CenTon matches to me are:

SummerSlam 07
No Way Out
Breaking Point
Bragging Rights
Raw 10/2/14

With Raw 19/2/07, TLC & RR being on the decent mark.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> I should have added that my quote wasn't verbatim. It was a paraphrasing (at best I know). My point was that one of the commentators had acknowledged it even if they stopped going on about it later. Him not cleanly hitting it was how I also saw the move. I understand that is a minority opinion because only I held it in April last year when everyone was talking about how rubbish the spot was.
> 
> Still don't see any of the other points taking wind, or the point of "he's a poor man's HBK" that someone else mentioned but yeah.
> 
> ...



I saw the spot the same way you did, and this goes back to the biggest issue with WWE shit canning JR out of the main play by play role. No one is as good as JR was at picking up on the story the wrestlers were trying to convey in the ring. He was always on point picking up the subtleties like not hitting a move correctly on purpose or covering up when guys would botch it. This is partly Michael Cole's fault, as he has never bothered to learn the proper terminology for wrestling moves. That's why Cole was at his best and was actually really good when he was paired with Tazz on Smackdown in the early to mid 2000s. Tazz was an encyclopedia of wrestling moves and holds so he could point out why a wrestler was doing such and such a move and what part of the body the move targeted. Then Cole would tie it in with the storyline. Tazz, being the former wrestler that he is, was also good at picking up on when a guy didn't have a hold applied properly or if a guy didn't connect fully with a move as opposed to simply botching it. For the life of me I will never know why WWE didn't keep the Taz and Cole pairing going strong, they were almost as good as Jr/Lawler at times.

The other main problem is WWE really isn't even in the business of calling the action properly in the ring anymore. We as the fans just get inundated with nonsense and petty bickering because for some reason Vince and Kevin Dunn have decided that's what we as the fans want to hear. To them, we aren't interested in knowing the names of holds and having the psychology explained to us. They think it's better for JBL to scream and argue like a petulant child with Michael Cole about the motivations of the wrestlers in the ring. Sometimes the arguing doesn't even have anything to do with what's taking place in the ring, and that's when I finally give up and press the mute button or if it's a bad match change the channel.

Edit- to be fair I haven't seen that Summerslam 2007 match in ages and can't recall a single thing about it. It could very well be worth the watch.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Their No Way Out match was just :mark: really loved that one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not going to contribute to the boring roundabout topic in here. So lets chat about how excellent Kane vs Viscera from Backlash 2005 is. 99% certain this is gonna end up as 2005's most underrated match. Unless something comes along and completely wows me that I had zero idea occurred.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jake vs. Goldy is not boring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wrote about that match during the WWF/E Poll back in the day:

Kane Vs Viscera - I've heard from a couple of people that this was good... but one of them is like, the complete opposite to me when it comes to what matches he thinks is good... plus he is a Mark Henry and Viscera mark . However, boy was I SHOCKED at this one and how good it was all things considering. A good pace, nice action, and just... extremely solid. Probably Viscera's best match ever. **3/4

I regret most of what I said. Probably NOT Viscera's best match, and not that shocking that I would like it. Plus Henry rules and I've always liked BIG DADDY MABEL.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The best BIG VIS match is the beat the clock one with Benoit in the last Raw of 2004, imo. Benoit is such a phenomenal underdog worker. Love how he utilized dropkicks when facing bigger men.

xksdvb


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So I just watched Orton/Cena NWO... 

I don't understand the praise. I mean, was there anything particularly bad or irksome that makes me want to turn it off? No (so straight away that makes it one of the better clashes between the two) but what's so great about it. Orton throws some really bad strikes and when 99.99% of his offence is him striking Cena, that means a lot. Maybe it's because I've seen the two wrestle umpteen times before but I never got that big fight vibe like Cactus Jack was saying and nothing really developed between the two to make me care. Orton's control period was boring and uninspired, there was no real reason to give a shit about Cena and his comeback other than he's the face and Orton's the heel and there didn't seem to be much of a struggle between the two men. It's completely harmless but so uninspiring and generic IMO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BIG SHOW VS SNITSKY DOE :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Jake vs. Goldy is not boring.


We wish that was the actual topic.



King Cal said:


> Wrote about that match during the WWF/E Poll back in the day:
> 
> Kane Vs Viscera - I've heard from a couple of people that this was good... but one of them is like, the complete opposite to me when it comes to what matches he thinks is good... plus he is a Mark Henry and Viscera mark . However, boy was I SHOCKED at this one and how good it was all things considering. A good pace, nice action, and just... extremely solid. Probably Viscera's best match ever. **3/4
> 
> I regret most of what I said. Probably NOT Viscera's best match, and not that shocking that I would like it. Plus Henry rules and I've always liked BIG DADDY MABEL.


HA at some of this. Those old posts. Sometimes the make us ask too many questions. 

Vis owns.



Flux said:


> So I just watched Orton/Cena NWO...
> 
> I don't understand the praise. I mean, was there anything particularly bad or irksome that makes me want to turn it off? No (so straight away that makes it one of the better clashes between the two) but what's so great about it. Orton throws some really bad strikes and when 99.99% of his offence is him striking Cena, that means a lot. Maybe it's because I've seen the two wrestle umpteen times before but I never got that big fight vibe like Cactus Jack was saying and nothing really developed between the two to make me care. Orton's control period was boring and uninspired, there was no real reason to give a shit about Cena and his comeback other than he's the face and Orton's the heel and there didn't seem to be much of a struggle between the two men. It's completely harmless but so uninspiring and generic IMO.


This will now take the heat off of me for feeling the exact same way about the RAW Elimination Chamber match on the same show. :hayley1



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> BIG SHOW VS SNITSKY DOE :mark:.


This has made the rounds of earning praise lately. Kane vs Vis needs to be heading to the same track. As does Kane vs Snitsky No Holds Barred match w/the memorable finish. _(but screw the finish, the match is a rad slugfest)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even remember the Raw 08 chamber. I downloaded a pack of all the chamber matches from 09 onwards since I have all the others on DVD, and I was planning on watching/rambling about all of them leading up to EC PPV... but I just can't be fucked :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch the NYR 2006 one just so we can see an epic review shitting all over it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle Vs Kane Vs Chris Masters Vs Carlito - WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006*

Really don't remember much about this match other than what happens AFTER it, so I'm interested in seeing how good (or bad) it is.

Huh, cool, HBK Vs Cena to start things off.

Huh, Carlito is the next person added to the match. Yep, that's about the most noteworthy thing so far lol. Cena/HBK wasn't shit or anything, but there really wasn't anything to it. Best thing so far was probably Carlito hitting the Hi-Lo to HBK who was on the steel rather than in the ring, and the reaction of the crowd when Carlito went after Cena .

Next noteworthy thing? Angle coming into the match. Yeah, don't see this match being that great overall lol.

Angle does a good job in the match though, as his crazy move-fest strategy works in a match like this. He suplexes the shit out of everyone, busts open HBK and just beats the shit out of everyone in general. Then he's the first person eliminated :lmao.

Yeah, more shit happens, and Cena wins. Not sure just yet, but this might very well be the worst Elimination Chamber ever. Will find out for certain when I get to December to Dismember lol.

*Rating: **


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Breaking point is good I think, SS 07 is good as well

8 days till the network :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought Angle was the only noteworthy thing in that chamber TBH.

Him coming in and SPAMMING = :mark:.

The final three was fucking hilarious, I remember watching it live and being like "LOLCENAWINS" only for the cash in to happen which made my best friend (EDGE MARK) go completely fucking insane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wished you were motivated for more slander. I'm talking PARAGRAPH UPON PARAGRAPH filled w/hate.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll cover it once again when I get to 2006 PPV Rambles (1 PPV into 2003 so far ).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of great Big Man/Little Man performances, Benoit/Sid Souled Out 2000 is OUTSTANDING. What an absolute carry job by Benoit, I swear he does like 90% of the work in the match, and it's still fantastic. I love how he just chops Sid down with drop kicks and leg work then like the rabid wolverine he is he just stays on top of him and won't give him a single moment to breath. Finish was silly because somehow Arn caught Benoits leg being under the ropes but then completely failed to see Sid's leg obviously under it too, but that really doesn't take anything away from the work done. ***3/4

Flux: Damn, will just have to agree to disagree, I really dug NWO 08' (liked the Raw Chamber too, for that matter) and that totally surprised me because those two might be the least interesting pairing for a main event match that I can think of.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sid/Benoit is boss. As is Sid/HBK SVS. SID rules. Kinda.

Cody, some EC/Angle/2006 related bitching just for you  :

*John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - First Blood - Raw 02/01/2006*

Another "Elimination Chamber opponents" match. And again a stipulation that Vince McMahon added, just because he's a dick .

Gotta love these commercial breaks... we don't even get to see the start of the match, instead it comes back with Angle hitting 3 German Suplexes... though I wouldn't put it past Kurt to start a match like that these days. I wonder how many finisher kick outs we missed in the break. And yes, I know this is a first blood match, but its also a KURT ANGLE match .

Nice to see Angle actually showing some signs of psychology here; he's actually targeting the head of Cena to bust him open and oh look he just hit the Angle Slam while I typed that. Even Lawler pipes up with "he won't win the match with THAT" :lmao.

You know, I'm actually looking forward to finally doing this Raw 2006 project. For one, I'm interested in seeing how Cena's 2006 was. His 2007 was amazing, but I hear little to nothing about his 2006. So far in this match he hasn't shown me ANY signs of awesomeness. His punches have looked AWFUL, he's taken a few bad bumps and even his "5 moves of doom" haven't been perfected yet and look terrible.

Speaking of terrible... Angle just locked in the Ankle Lock. In a first blood match. Is there no end to this guy's retardedness?

Eventually Cena is busted open, but the referee was knocked out during the Ankle Lock exchange so the match doesn't end right away. So with the match not over yet... what does Cena do? STFU. Jesus fucking christ. Finally the ref wakes up and calls for the bell, and no, Cena did not win via submission...

Bad, bad match. Stupidity, retardedness, sloppy shit... it had it all.

*Rating: 1/4**


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It gets worse. Bail out on that project. There are Killer Khan matches you haven't watched.

EDIT: LMFAO at the ending of Kane/Viscera.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got to May with Raw 06 and stopped because the quality of some Raw shows available online were so terrible I couldn't watch them. Bad picture quality, out of sync etc. But there were PLENTY of **3/4+ aka GOOD tv matches from what I watched . And some shite too:

*Shelton Benjamin Vs Chavo Guerrero - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 03/04/2006*

What? I'm watching a Chavo match? I know, but its also a Shelton match, and he was pretty awesome in 06 from everything I've seen so far.

Chavo talks about Eddie (who was inducted into the HOF 2 days earlier), and claims he's going to win the IC title in honour of his memory. The fans feel sorry for him and chant his name. Awwww, isn't that nice?

:lmao at The Coach on commentary saying its an unrealistic goal for Chavo to win the match. LOLChavo.

I know I hate Chavo, but man he is sooo bad here. He nearly trips over himself while hitting some European Uppercuts, then he flails his arms around while kicking Shelton in the corner. Looked like a balding retard. Then he misses a dropkick, the best move in his arsenal, and gets a knee to the face and takes a hilarious (because I don't like him) but actually good looking bump onto the floor.

Chavo eventually fires back and hits a couple of dropkicks (what else?) then steals some of Eddie's moves... and still ends up losing. Wow. Way to honour your dead uncle, Chavo. What a cunt.

Minus 5 stars for Chavo being such a disgrace to his family. *3/4 for the actual ring work.

*Rating: *3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Awesome. 

Reminds me of the LMS match I just saw vs JBL in early 2005. _(I'm doing WWE 2005 atm, myself)_ and Angle made the first five minute horrible b/c he tried to MAT WRESTLE in a Last Man Standing match. A real great, ladies and gents. This is the man who had what I consider the best match in WWF/WWE history too. We're all flabbergasted. FYI the match didn't begin to have an entertaining stretch until JBL started to beat the piss out of Angle once it returned for the "commercial break". Decent match at the end of the day. Like, at best. Could be a stretch for some folks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kurt Angle managed to Anglicize a LMS match by spamming nine counts :lol

Cody, I didn't know that Angle/Benoit RR 03 was what you considered the GOAT WWE match. I guess there's a Pyro in all of us.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me hates the struggle that is Angle's stupidity vs JBL's awesome ability to make beating the crap out of someone cool.

Conflicting.

Nah, it's the Judgment Day 2001 match, FF. Keep up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 16/01/2006*

Angle got beat last week in the tag match thanks to Shawn, then he went to SD and became WHC. LOL.

Oh, and if HBK loses, he s fired.

Raw might have the more "unpredictable" feeling being live, but at least SD can edit shit so matches don't start during a commercial fucking break. Only on the third Raw of the year and its already happened like, 3 times lol.

Typical back and forth stuff that you would expect based on their previous matches, until Divari gets involved and causes HBK to fall out of the ring. He gets superkicked for his troubles, but Angle runs up behind HBK and hits the Angle Slam (his finisher btw) on THE FLOOR. Oh joy, commercial break... and the match is still going because a finisher on the floor isn't enough.

Speaking of finishers not being enough... an Angle Slam from the fucking ropes doesn't even end it. Only one thing to do now, random Ankle Lock! And yep, there it is lol! HBK escapes a few attempts, but Angle finally locks it in as Divari looks on and laughs... only to get slapped in the face. Poor guy keeps getting his face attacked, so he runs in with a chair, accidentally hits Angle with it allowing Michaels to get the win.

Yeah, didn't like this at all. Angle is as dumb as ever and honestly HBK doesn't really bring... anything to the match to try and save it either, other than a couple of shots to Divari just for the hell of it. Can't believe I gave this ***1/2 before...

*Rating: 1/2**


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> Awesome.
> 
> Reminds me of the LMS match I just saw vs JBL in early 2005. _(I'm doing WWE 2005 atm, myself)_ and Angle made the first five minute horrible b/c he tried to MAT WRESTLE in a Last Man Standing match. A real great, ladies and gents. This is the man who had what I consider the best match in WWF/WWE history too. We're all flabbergasted. FYI the match didn't begin to have an entertaining stretch until JBL started to beat the piss out of Angle once it returned for the "commercial break". Decent match at the end of the day. Like, at best. Could be a stretch for some folks.


:lmao Oh Angle.

I don't remember that match at all. Heel/heel, I'm assuming?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah heel vs heel, to help build to the RR triple threat with Show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So what exactly are the good matches you found on RAW in 2006? Because right now it sounds worse than 1995.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Cal's ramblings in the past page.

lol @ Angle using the Ankle Lock in a first blood match. :lmao

And:



> :lmao at The Coach on commentary saying its an unrealistic goal for Chavo to win the match. LOLChavo.


Fucking Coach. :lmao

While we're at it, :lmao @ Chavo's "Wrestlemania moment" being retiring the night after while Rey won the World Title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Turned out that it was Big Show's MASTER PLAN all along :lol.

Speaking of Big Show & 2005, pretty sure there's a short Michaels match in December that rules.

Screw that, I wanna see BIG SHOW throw around some more fatties .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hmmm. Lets just say the Triple Threat is the only thing worth your time. b/c it still rules.

Following it Angle returns to the status quo of crap when he works vs Cena @ NWO & subsequently vs Michaels @ WM. However, on the road to that show he works vs Mysterio in Japan. Fingers crossed it's good. I LOVE their SummerSlam 2002 match. If this is a fraction of how great that was, I'll be cool. That and Angle dwindles down the junk.

Also got Angle vs Jannetty too. My stars, he may have two really good matches in this year after all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ****
Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006 - ***3/4
Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC WWE Title Match - Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
John Cena Vs Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***3/4
Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters Vs Charlie Hass Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 08/05/2006 - ***3/4
Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***1/2
Triple H Vs The Big Show - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 23/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Hass - Raw 17/04/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 27/03/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs The Big Show - Raw 13/02/2006 - ***
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
Shane McMahon Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 24/04/2006 - ***
John Cena & RVD Vs Triple H, Shelton Benjamin & Chris Matchers - 3 on 2 Handicap Texas Tornado Intercontinental & WWE Championship Match - Raw 15/05/2006 - ***
Chris Masters & Carlito Vs Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle - Raw 09/01/2006 - ***
Jerry Lawler Vs Gregory Helms - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
The Big Show Vs Triple H Vs RVD - Raw 20/02/2006 - ***
Rob Van Dam & Carlito Vs Chris Masters & Shelton Benjamin - Raw 01/05/2006 - ***
The Spirit Squad Vs Triple H, John Cena & Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 24/04/2006 - **3/4
Edge & John Cena Vs Triple H - Handicap Match - Raw 17/04/2006 - **3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Viscera - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - **3/4

Not including WM because at the time I was doing this I couldn't be arsed with watching it . Also, There are plenty of matches below these ratings that, while not great or anything, were still fun but lacked time or something like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle vs Mysterio from Japan is wonderful stuff. Not SummerSlam good, but highly enjoyable and far better than their subpar 2006 matches.

CAL, can't be arsed (the ONLY British saying in my English vocab ) to look through all the names but what do you think of Flair vs Shelton vs RVD before WM?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair Vs RVD - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 20/03/2006*

MOAR Flair and Benjamin? Fuck yeah. Shame RVD has to be here too.

Poor Shelton has managed to piss off both Flair and RVD so they team together in the early going to pummel the IC champion. And with Mamma at home recovering from... I dunno, being awesome, who will give him the encouragement that he needs?!?!

Somehow Flair and RVD get busted open, and Shelton seems to have caught a break... plus Flair has no problem chopping the shit out of RVD too lol.

Loved Flair just blasting RVD in the face where he is cut open, then RVD kicking Flair where he is busted open later down the line when he gets the chance. Its all about the little things, ya know?

Does RVD know how to do anything other than kicking people and the frog splash? Seriously, I don't think he does anything else in this match lol.

Shelton is once again the workhorse of his match, with Flair being almost as awesome and RVD... being there to kick people. Liked the finish as well. Plenty of good action for the most part as well.

*Rating: **1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just fucking LOST IT at that Chavo/Benjamin review :lol :lol :lol.

HHH with NINE great matches acknowledged by Cal to start 2006. BEAST MODE.

Dude was the MVP of the first half of 2006 until DX reformed and Hunter went from caring about his in-ring work to caring about how many segments he could be in with Big Dick Johnson :lol.


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Angle CAN work a great match but its clear he needs either or both of an assertive and good road agent or ring general with good psychology to do so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, we all know Angle's capabilities w/the proper elements added. That's the frustrating part. Instead it felt like all the logic was lost way, way too much of the time. Thus, loads of junk.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Loved Flair just blasting RVD in the face where he is cut open, then RVD kicking Flair where he is busted open later down the line when he gets the chance. Its all about the little things, ya know?
> 
> *Liked the finish as well.*


So it's not just Flair who was busted open?

And even though I enjoyed the match, I honestly couldn't tell you the finish or who won it if you asked me. :lol



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Dude was the MVP of the first half of 2006 until DX reformed and Hunter went from caring about his in-ring work to caring about how many segments he could be in with Big Dick Johnson :lol.


Did DX have any good matches that didn't involve Rated RKO or the McMahons that year? I can't remember anything other than a bunch of shit matches with the Spirit Job Squad and a bunch of forgettable shit where they bury the tag division.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think DX (specifically HHH) knew how to have good tag matches.

Watching HBK/HHH from 06. Started off good, but then got really boring. Like damn.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what happens when RAW turns into the "McMahon-Helmsley-Hickenbottom Primetime Dick Joke Program" like it did in 2006 :lol.

Pretty sure there's some DX Vs Finlay/Regal/(SIGH)Kennedy tag out there that's decent, but yeah DX buried the tag division fucking HARD. Spirit Squad main eventing over John Cena, Mick Foley, Ric Flair, & the WWE Championship match = :lol.

The matches that HBK & HHH had with Umaga in the summer were good feud advancers I thought. 2011 had the Summer of Punk, 2013 had the Summer of Bryan, but 2006 had them beat with the summer of 40 year old men making dick jokes :lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Taker/Vader/Austin/Hart for the first time. What a fun match, IDK why I decided to put it off so long. ****1/4 for it but I'm still confused how Bret won yet Taker/Sid Main evented mania for the title


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HA, 1997.

That year WISHES it had a classic like DX Vs Dolph & his JOB Squad at Vengeance .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You want to know something funny, I use to make fun of the spirit squad like crazy, thought they were so bad, I actually remember laughing at the nicky and mitch the most fast forward 5 years :ziggler2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> That's what happens when RAW turns into the "McMahon-Helmsley-Hickenbottom Primetime Dick Joke Program" like it did in 2006 :lol.
> 
> Pretty sure there's some DX Vs Finlay/Regal/(SIGH)Kennedy tag out there that's decent, but yeah DX buried the tag division fucking HARD. Spirit Squad main eventing over John Cena, Mick Foley, Ric Flair, & the WWE Championship match = :lol.
> 
> The matches that HBK & HHH had with Umaga in the summer were good feud advancers I thought. 2011 had the Summer of Punk, 2013 had the Summer of Bryan, but 2006 had them beat with the summer of 40 year old men making dick jokes :lol.


It was one bad joke after another. There were some funny moments like Vince peeing on Coach's suit when DX screwed around with the production stuff. That run was probably one of the reasons the company has been in their current for the past five or so years with lack of star power. That whole year was Cena and DX running over the entire roster. DX specially were bad because they would have half the roster beat them down and still get the upper-hand in the end. Then HHH tore his other quad and Cena took his place as HBK's partner to bury every tag team around.

That's probably the start of Vince booking the show as a fan rather than "for the fans" as they often claim.



SMITTY said:


> Just watched Taker/Vader/Austin/Hart for the first time. What a fun match, IDK why I decided to put it off so long. ****1/4 for it but I'm still confused how Bret won yet Taker/Sid Main evented mania for the title


The title scene is a headache for that WM. Sid beat Bret the night after for the title then Taker somehow became #1 contender at WM and Bret went after Austin for costing him the title.



SKINS said:


> You want to know something funny, I use to make fun of the spirit squad like crazy, thought they were so bad, I actually remember laughing at the nicky and mitch the most fast forward 5 years :ziggler2


And look at him now... back where he belongs and a way out doesn't seem to exist.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Just watched Taker/Vader/Austin/Hart for the first time. What a fun match, IDK why I decided to put it off so long. ****1/4 for it but I'm still confused how Bret won yet Taker/Sid Main evented mania for the title



Really random, I literally just this second finished watching that match too, I was waiting for the last part of the VADER timeline to load so I decided to pop my IYH disc in. Match does NOT dissapoint, still the greatest 4 way ever as far as I'm concerned. 

On a side note, anyone that is even remotely a fan of Vader should take the time out and watch his timeline. So great, I love shoots were the guy isn't out to bury anyone or have an agenda. Vader comes off great and has a lot of good insight. I don't think I've heard Vader say a single negative thing about anyone, he even has positive stuff to say about Sid! Nearly everyone buries that guy the second a question about him gets asked.

Oh, and for the millionth time, it is an absolute crime that Vader isn't in the HoF. You can tell from the way he talks about other people who have been inducted that it would mean the world to him to get the recognition he deserves. He and Savage can go in together.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Number of PPVs main evented by NICKY = 1

Number of PPVs main evented by Dolph = 1

I'm expecting a Nicky ZigZag TNA debut in 2014 :lol.

*SIDENOTE* Dolph should have gotten the title back from Del Rio at Summerslam, have no idea why they opted to go with somebody who gets zero reaction from anybody and is essentially a black hole of boredom, instead of somebody shitty who at least got crowd reactions. The term "burial" is probably the most overused of all the smark lingo, but what happened to Dolph was a legit burial that I can't seem to comprehend. Good for Vince though .

Anyways. The idea of Vince booking the show as a fan started when WCW went out of business and Vince realized that he could basically do whatever the hell he wanted and still roll around in his millions upon millions of dollars. HENCE why the invasion was fucked up, hence why Jericho was booked as Stephanie's bitch heading into the MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA, etc.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

pls stop your hurting my heart the both of you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ziggler should have stayed in OVW where DX sent him. He might have had the chance to main event TNA by now 8*D.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)




----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What the fuck :lol:lol.

Although if Dolph went to TNA, he'd probably get pushed as the franchise.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I AM PERFECTION :mark:


lol, oh yea @flux yea I agree w/ you about Orton/Cena nwo 08 (just read your review) I dont get the praise tbh. There is nothing that I can say is completely terrible in the match, its just average, idk just dont like it. Only orton/cena match I like are the I quit and tlc kinda (unpopular huh ?)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> *SIDENOTE* Dolph should have gotten the title back from Del Rio at Summerslam, have no idea why they opted to go with somebody who gets zero reaction from anybody and is essentially a black hole of boredom, instead of somebody shitty who at least got crowd reactions. The term "burial" is probably the most overused of all the smark lingo, but what happened to Dolph was a legit burial that I can't seem to comprehend. Good for Vince though .


Their booking of his face turn was the reverse. He should've finished business with AJ & Biggie THEN had his rematch at SummerSlam where he would recapture the title. But his big mouth got him into shit and he's been BURIED so hard that even I want to feel sorry for him. :lol

Tapping out to that Bulgarian guy in a dark match last week is just brutal. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK: Bitches, moans and burries people on a daily basis in the mid 90's - multiple time WWE champ, pushed as being one of the GOATs.

Dolph: Complains a little - BURRIED.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I'm conflicted by that post Cal, dont know who I should side w/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was designed that way .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> HBK: Bitches, moans and burries people on a daily basis in the mid 90's - multiple time WWE champ, pushed as being one of the GOATs.
> 
> Dolph: Complains a little - BURRIED.


I think I can explain this one. One of those has charisma and does _actually_ steal the show rather than just say it as a catchphrase. Take a guess.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know man, I felt so sorry for the guy but like you said, he shouldn't be out there running his big mouth like he's some sort of big star when he had accomplished jack shit at that point (Khali & Swagger had more accomplished WHC reigns FFS). His record so far this year is like 1-6 or something, poor guy .

Used to like him & got legit excited over his title win because it meant that the fans reaction actually meant something to Vince, until Ziggler started thinking he was CM Punk and openly criticized the company. Now I just relish in the burying of his bland ass :lol.

In short, I think many of us were fooled by Dolph's gimmick that he "steals the show" to the point where we started dismissing his many, many flaws. I know kayfabe is dead but good lord Dolph has it rolling around in its grave :lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol Why are you guys doing this to me, actually had a nice day in the outside world today


Yea if I was booking him, I would have done the following : 

lose to ADR at PB

- becomes face, and thinks he doesnt need AJ and Big E anymore
- match vs. Big E at MITB w/ Ziggler going over
- goes back to feuding w/ ADR and has match w/ ADR at ss and goes over
- holds the belt until October 
- Drops belt to Cena at HIAC

But its the wwe, that guys though


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ziggler overcoming the WOAT gimmicks he was given to being repackaged and finding some success can only be praised. Who would of thought Kerwin White's Caddy, or Nicky from the Spirit Squad would go onto to become a multiple time midcard and World Champion? He might be done at this point, but he's accomplished more than people ever thought he would given the terrible, no future in the company gimmicks he was given.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They should just do Goldberg-Ziggler at Wrestlemania XXX, just to see the selling of Goldberg's offense :lol.

To say something positive though, Dolph works best when given the opportunity to integrate sleepers into his control segments ala NWO 2012.

YES. That is the infamous Jerry Lawler "LET'S GO SHEAMUS!" match. What a moron :lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fuck, I forgot he was Chavo's caddy :lol Spirit Squad was actually an upgrade for him, then


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

It's easy to forget I guess, considering Kerwin White didn't last long. One of the lines he used to say was: ''if it's not white, it's not right'' and of course that didn't last long. :lmao






:lmao

And when Eddie died out of respect for Eddie Chavo decided to drop the character and go back to Chavo Guerrero.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It would have been more respectful to Eddie and the Guerrero name for Chavo to have stayed as Kerwin White and never used the Guerrero name again :side:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at the fans cheering like crazy after Pillman beat Goldust in their match at IYH: Ground Zero. People really wanted to see Pillman get his hands on Marlena. That same event also happens to have one of the biggest carryjobs in WWE history. My goodness, I don't know how anyone can say Bret had a poor 1997 after watching what he did with The Patriot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't believe so many of you have bought into this ridiculous notion that a wrestler, Dolph Ziggler is this case, should be "buried" (hate that word) on television for doing something wrong behind the scenes. Um, in what way does that make any form of sense? The WWE is in the business of making money, and they make said money by entertaining the fans, giving them what they want. Now, I know some of you don't like Ziggler, but you can't deny he was incredibly over immediately following his cash in/Payback match with ADR. So then he says something Vince doesn't like and so he is forced to lose the title and job in embarassing ways every week on television. This is the most ass backwards way I've ever heard of running a company. It was stupid when it happened to Triple H, a guy I loathe, for the Curtain Call incident, and it's just as dumb now. If someone does something off camera you don't like, they should be punished off camera. Either fine him, suspend him, or if it's bad enough, fire him. Making him come out every single week and lose in embarrassing ways just pisses off your fanbase. Now, it might not hurt the bottom line now, but neither you nor I have any clue what could have been if Dolph had been given the ball to run with after Payback. He might be just as big as Daniel Bryan, which absolutely would affect your bottom line. It's not just about losing money, it's about losing potential earnings, and that's what they are doing by burying talent on camera for transgressions off camera. The only reason you should bury a talent on camera is, wait, actually I can't think of one single viable reason to bury a talent on camera. It does nobody any good. It's my understanding that you want as many viable star's, main eventers, or even solid mid carders, as possible. A stronger roster equals more fan enjoyment and that equals more money. 

Yes, I would love to see The Miz, Kofi Kingston, and Santino come out and lose in embarrassing fashion every single week, but outside of mine and some other fans enjoyment, it would only hurt the product as a whole, as those guys certainly have a fan base that just doesn't happen to post on online forums.

If someone can give me a good legitimate reason a talent, Ziggler in this case, should be forced down the card because of something done off camera, and that reason doesn't include you simply not liking him or thinking he sucks, I'd love to hear it. 

In the NFL or NBA, if an athlete does something off the field that causes him to get into trouble, he is either fined, suspended, or cut. They don't bench their star middle line backer for saying negative things about teammates. Because that would cause them to lose games, and thats punishing the entire team for 1 persons transgressions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:rep Chris

:mark: I'm watching the Dragon Ball episode with Andre The Giant (who they call "Anton the Great"). DAT KRILLIN burying dat andre.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :rep Chris
> 
> :mark: I'm watching the Dragon Ball episode with Andre The Giant (who they call "Anton the Great"). DAT KRILLIN burying dat andre.




I've never seen that smilie b4 what does it mean? Yea that was a long rant sorry I just had to get that off my chest :lmao

Anyone have the dates of this Vader/Austin vs Anderson/Flair tag match Vader keeps putting over in his timeline? He keeps bringing up how great it was and it has me dying to see it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> I've never seen that smilie b4 what does it mean? Yea that was a long rant sorry I just had to get that off my chest :lmao
> 
> Anyone have the dates of this Vader/Austin vs Anderson/Flair tag match Vader keeps putting over in his timeline? He keeps bringing up how great it was and it has me dying to see it.


Saturday Night 13/11/1993

Finish is cut from the main show though as time ran out, but it was shown on another show. A full version should be around somewhere though.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So is anyone as big a Simon Dean fan as me and my bro were?

That entrance music was iconic :mark:


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

The hard turn from both the company and many of the IWC on Zigglypuff hurts my heart. Its funny because I actually was starting to cool on him slightly but then the abuse from the company and message board posters kind of reignited my love for him? Funny how that works. 

The more he is abused the harder I will push him in TEW, damnit!!!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> So is anyone as big a Simon Dean fan as me and my bro were?
> 
> That entrance music was iconic :mark:


We had a Nova discussion a couple months ago, but you and your brother missed out on it. At least you guys were there for the Mike Awesome discussion, but I'm afraid that when we ever talk about Mikey Whipwreck, you guys won't be present for that either.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Toates Dapperfox said:


> The hard turn from both the company and many of the IWC on Zigglypuff hurts my heart. Its funny because I actually was starting to cool on him slightly but then the abuse from the company and message board posters kind of reignited my love for him? Funny how that works.
> 
> The more he is abused the harder I will push him in TEW, damnit!!!


It's been going on for a while now. Nothing new. Many of the same guys who were on the Ziggler bandwagon have hopped off. No point in wasting time talking to them. The same guys will now hop on the Cesaro bandwagon and will hop off if something goes wrong. Ziggler saying that he could probably take Orton 1-v-1 doesn't warrant burial, especially since it was only stated in the context of him explaining how size wasn't as important as the company thought. In no way does that warrant someone who had as much momentum and who was as over, especially someone as talented as Ziggler getting buried.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph Ziggler = Yamcha?


----------



## Toates Dapperfox (Feb 4, 2014)

Sure. Makes sense to me because I will forever stand by Yamcha too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Saturday Night 13/11/1993
> 
> Finish is cut from the main show though as time ran out, but it was shown on another show. A full version should be around somewhere though.



Thanks a lot I'm gonna look everywhere for it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mikey Whipwreck is fucking awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol was a big Yamacha Fan soo I agree


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For the first time in months, we agree on something. Not everything in ECW sucked. Not even Sabu.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ARRIVE

HATE ON ORIGINAL ECW

LEAVE


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> For the first time in months, we agree on something. Not everything in ECW sucked. Not even Sabu.


Yeah, with you on Sabu. ECW also had Terry Funk, the bWo, Super Crazy, Psicosis, Rey, Juvi Juice, Benoit, Guerrero, motherfucking Tajiri, 2 Cold motherfucking Scorpio, Dudleys promos, Cactus promos, New Jack promos (guy was fucking a fucking AWESOME promo, seriously), and Brian Pillman beating up a pencil. Oh yeah, and Pillman promos.



King Cal said:


> ARRIVE
> 
> HATE ON ORIGINAL ECW
> 
> LEAVE


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kj2g_2-17-1996-brian-pillman-ecw-apperen_news

3:00


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Don't forget Al Snow. Benoit had an absolutely kick ass match with Snow in ECW. Snow could be really good at his best, he was "the best kept secret" in pro wrestling before he was the crazy attitude era brawler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at the fans cheering like crazy after Pillman beat Goldust in their match at IYH: Ground Zero. People really wanted to see Pillman get his hands on Marlena. That same event also happens to have one of the biggest carryjobs in WWE history. My goodness, I don't know how anyone can say Bret had a poor 1997 after watching what he did with The Patriot.


Bret in 1997 was awful pardon his classic vs Austin. Could he have been any more dull? It's like he started his WCW career a year early. Tags don't count here. 

Also, Del Wilkes was actually pretty awesome.



King Cal said:


> HBK: Bitches, moans and burries people on a daily basis in the mid 90's - multiple time WWE champ, pushed as being one of the GOATs.
> 
> Dolph: Complains a little - BURRIED.


Elaborates why I'm not much of a Shawn Michaels fan. Have a Jim Cornette opinion w/him. Although, the Rockers era was the best. In quality & everything else. He was just a kid who had a good time and killed it in the ring. I support that.

he's been obnoxious as FUCK in the early going of 2005 so far. Jesus christ, dude. King calling him out on complaining the night after the Rumble owned.



funnyfaces1 said:


> We had a Nova discussion a couple months ago, but you and your brother missed out on it. At least you guys were there for the Mike Awesome discussion, but I'm afraid that when we ever talk about Mikey Whipwreck, you guys won't be present for that either.


Hollywood Nova or Kryptonite Krunch era Nova?

Mike Awesome was the man. And Mikey Whipwreck rules the WORLD.



Yeah1993 said:


> Mikey Whipwreck is fucking awesome.


:mark:


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dolph Ziggler = Yamcha?


Nah, I would compare him to Piccolo or Tien.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ECW also was the place where Scott Steiner had his greatest promo.

Kryptonite Krunch Nova :lenny

Steve Corino vs. Tajiri :homer


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We had a Nova discussion a couple months ago, but you and your brother missed out on it. At least you guys were there for the Mike Awesome discussion, but I'm afraid that when we ever talk about Mikey Whipwreck, you guys won't be present for that either.


Too bad I missed that, Simon Dean & Maven was one of my favorite teams when they joined together.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So what possessed you to be both a Maven and a Sacramento Kings fan? I've had a vendetta against the dude after he knocked out Taker in the Rumble.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> So what possessed you to be both a Maven and a Sacramento Kings fan? I've had a vendetta against the dude after he knocked out Taker in the Rumble.


I just thought the chemistry between those 2 was fantastic, I don't mean in ring chemistry.

Haven't seen one of their tag matches in years, but all I know is as soon as Simon Dean's music hit I would get excited :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Saturday Night 13/11/1993
> 
> Finish is cut from the main show though as time ran out, but it was shown on another show. A full version should be around somewhere though.


Any idea what exact show the ending was shown? Been trying to track it down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't remember. Not even sure how I saw the whole thing now, because the finish is missing on my Vader comp lol, and the match isn't on my Flair comp either. Oh well .


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Not going to contribute to the boring roundabout topic in here. So lets chat about how excellent Kane vs Viscera from Backlash 2005 is. 99% certain this is gonna end up as 2005's most underrated match. Unless something comes along and completely wows me that I had zero idea occurred.


Baklash 05 aired here yesterday on a channel called wow(world of wrestling) and I saw it, while not a fan of big man matches, i was shocked by how good this was, I'd go with ***1/2-***3/4 I'm a big fan of Kane and seeing him wrestle like that was awesome, loved his dive to the outside and LOVED the involvment of Trish/Lita

Oh and I never knew about the backstage segment between Kane and Lita before the match, and how Lita kissed Kane passionatly for luck but just before she was shown watching Edge celebrate his win at that show with a smile! + Viscera and Trish's backstage promos (before the match) and the one after it reminded me how good this girl was as a heel


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----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> Can't remember. Not even sure how I saw the whole thing now, because the finish is missing on my Vader comp lol, and the match isn't on my Flair comp either. Oh well .


Yeah, been trying to find out when the finish might have aired. It was announced on a Main Event episode, but fuck knows when it was shown. Still a too match though. Do you remember the finish?


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----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Goldust: The Comeback Run Vol. 1 (6 Discs)*



Spoiler: Matchlistings



Disc 1
Goldust vs Randy Orton - Raw 09.09.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - Battleground 2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Raw 07.10.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Erik Rowan & Luke Harper - Smackdown 11.10.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - No DQ Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 14.10.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Smackdown 18.10.2013

Disc 2
Goldust vs Seth Rollins - Main Event 23.10.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan & Big E Langston vs The Shield & Randy Orton - Smackdown 25.10.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The Real Americans - Raw 28.10.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & John Cena vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Smackdown 01.11.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & John Cena vs Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger - Raw 04.11.2013

Disc 3
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton - Raw 11.11.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk & The Usos vs The Shield & The Wyatt Family - Raw 18.11.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The Real Americans - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 22.11.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Rey Mysterio & The Usos vs The Shield & The Real Americans - Survivor Series 2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Rey Mysterio vs The Shield - Raw 25.11.2013

Disc 4
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 29.11.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Big Show vs The Shield - Raw 02.12.2013
Goldust vs Ryback - Main Event 04.12.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - Smackdown 06.12.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Big Show & Rey Mysterio vs Ryback, Curtis Axel & The Real Americans - Raw 09.12.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The Real Americans - Smackdown 13.12.2013

Disc 5
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Ryback & Curtis Axel vs The Real Americans vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - WWE Tag Team Championships - TLC 2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - Raw 16.12.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - Smackdown 20.12.2013
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Daniel Bryan vs The Wyatt Family - Raw 23.12.2013
Goldust vs Jack Swagger - Main Event 25.12.2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 03.01.2014

Disc 6
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The Real Americans - Raw 06.01.2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Drew McIntyre & Jinder Mahal - Main Event 08.01.2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - Raw 13.01.2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The New Age Outlaws - Smackdown 17.01.2014
Goldust, Cody Rhodes & Big E Langston vs The Shield - Raw 20.01.2014
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Big E Langston & The Usos vs The Shield & The New Age Outlaws - Smackdown 24.01.2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The New Age Outlaws - WWE Tag Team Championships - Royal Rumble 2014
Goldust in the Royal Rumble - Royal Rumble 2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The New Age Outlaws - Raw 27.01.2014
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs The New Age Outlaws - Steel Cage Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 03.02.2014



*PM me for any more info.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't remember a damn thing, was about 3 years ago when I saw it :lmao.

Found the one and only writeup from someone (THE TEXAN~!) on my forum when we were doing the WCW Poll:

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. Vader & Steve Austin (11/13/93)
Thought this was really good. Arn is Flair’s mystery partner after Sid had been injured (hurray) and he and Flair proceed to whip the shit out of Vader and Austin. Probably thought this was the most I’ve enjoyed an Austin match so far in WCW. He bumped around and made faces and it was just peachy. Vader took some monstrous bumps in this, as well. It’s pretty much just Flair and Arn taking it to the bad guys until Arn gets worked over for nearly the rest of the match. Sounds like something that could have been top 25 material, but I thought everybody was a tad off their game in this. I mean, it wasn’t totally noticeable, and not enough to keep it off my list I wouldn’t think, but there were some awkward exchanges here and there and the Arn FIP segment went on a little too long. Flair’s hot tag is the best hot tag I’ve ever seen him do. Flair was really good now that I think about it because I liked him on the apron and there was an opening spot in this where he went to the top and Vader was on the outside and Flair jumped off with an axe handle, but Vader was so far away that Flair had to LEAP off and it looked totally insane. Match actually runs out of TV time (goes like 40 minutes) and we don’t get a finish. I liked this a bunch and it should make my bottom half somewhere. ***1/2

Maybe I (we) didn't see the finish. Fuck knows lol. Maybe there is another match that ends after the show finishes and is shown on another show because I do remember a match that did that and remember seeing the finish, but might have been for something different. Fuck knows. Seabs, you any idea? Pointless asking you here, you only post when you wanna sell shit :side: lmao as soon as I posted this, your post came up). Yeah, do you remember? Anyone?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*There's no finish iirc. If there was then it would only have been a clipped replay version of the finish so it doesn't end properly anyway.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys 

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----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Angle vs Mysterio from Japan is wonderful stuff. Not SummerSlam good, but highly enjoyable and far better than their subpar 2006 matches.
> 
> CAL, can't be arsed (the ONLY British saying in my English vocab ) to look through all the names but what do you think of Flair vs Shelton vs RVD before WM?


Anyone got a link to Rey/Angle from Japan?

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----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> Anyone got a link to Rey/Angle







WWE Smackdown in Japan 10th February 2005


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> WWE Smackdown in Japan 10th February 2005


Thanks mate. 

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----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JBL Vs The Inflatable Dinosaur ~ *******

Man, Big Show has been involved in some whacky motherfuckin' storylines and segments :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

etrbaby said:


> Baklash 05 aired here yesterday on a channel called wow(world of wrestling) and I saw it, while not a fan of big man matches, i was shocked by how good this was, I'd go with ***1/2-***3/4 I'm a big fan of Kane and seeing him wrestle like that was awesome, loved his dive to the outside and LOVED the involvment of Trish/Lita
> 
> Oh and I never knew about the backstage segment between Kane and Lita before the match, and how Lita kissed Kane passionatly for luck but just before she was shown watching Edge celebrate his win at that show with a smile! + Viscera and Trish's backstage promos (before the match) and the one after it reminded me how good this girl was as a heel
> 
> ...


Yeah, it rules. Match begins w/Kane totally punching Vis square in the face and Vis doesn't even budge. Brilliant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao I never get tired of that JBL/Inflatable Godzilla segment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot that happens in Japan. Kind of forgot entirely why it did to begin w/. Oh Smackdown in the early going of the year. Some of those segments.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They went on tour to Japan. Raw that week was also held there and they had that Benoit/Jericho submission match that night.

The JBL/dinosaur segment, though... :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's not forget about the good HHH Vs Edge match which is much better than their bland 2008 Great American Bash affair.

RAW/SD in Japan was a good idea that made both shows seem fresh. Why won't they do it again ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> They went on tour to Japan. Raw that week was also held there and they had that Benoit/Jericho submission match that night.
> 
> The JBL/dinosaur segment, though... :lmao



Is that the match Jericho talks about in his book where he was sweating out a gallon of Crown Royal, praying he was going to have an easy night because of how hungover he was, then seeing his name on the sheet listed next to Benoit in a submission match and he almost threw up right there on the spot? He said it was one of the better matches he ever had, is there video footage of it anywhere, do you know?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Is that the match Jericho talks about in his book where he was sweating out a gallon of Crown Royal, praying he was going to have an easy night because of how hungover he was, then seeing his name on the sheet listed next to Benoit in a submission match and he almost threw up right there on the spot? He said it was one of the better matches he ever had, is there video footage of it anywhere, do you know?


Yep, that's the one. I remember Jericho also has a picture of himself, Benoit and somebody else backstage after that show in his second book. Those green tights Benoit wore are awesome.

Here's the match itself, not their best together but very enjoyable as you'd expect from this pairing:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Obviously nobody forgot about their tour of Japan. Didn't remember the absurd segment making the WWE Champion look like a joke.

Big difference.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, that's the one. I remember Jericho also has a picture of himself, Benoit and somebody else backstage after that show in his second book. Those green tights Benoit wore are awesome.
> 
> Here's the match itself, not their best together but very enjoyable as you'd expect from this pairing:




I need to spread some rep around, thanks man(Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: WWF Timeline 1984 with Piper has been recorded :mark:. Should be pretty sweeeeeet.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Cal said:


> :mark: WWF Timeline 1984 with Piper has been recorded :mark:. Should be pretty sweeeeeet.


Excellent. That and the Bret Hart one should be pretty good.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Excellent. That and the Bret Hart one should be pretty good.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Which year is Bret doing? I'm hoping it's 1997, not for ring work but because of how interesting that year was as a whole. Then again, the whole "Beggining of the AE/Montreal Screw Job" shit has been talked to death at this point, maybe a year like 1993 or 1994 would be more interesting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Which year is Bret doing? I'm hoping it's 1997, not for ring work but because of how interesting that year was as a whole. Then again, the whole "Beggining of the AE/Montreal Screw Job" shit has been talked to death at this point, maybe a year like 1993 or 1994 would be more interesting.


I believe he is doing 1992.

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

97 was already done by Cornette . And he's doing 98 too :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe we will hear about his relationship w/Naitch in depth


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So the 2005 NYR Chamber match is still freaking amazing. Holds up every time I watch it. Just fantastic from start to finish. The only dry spot is the mini Orton/HHH/Batista handicap match at the end that drags a little too long but other than that this is pretty much flawless imo. *****3/4* and without a doubt the GOAT Elimination Chamber match.

I have high hopes for the Chamber on Sunday too. Maybe we'll see a Cesaro swing between the chain and the pod :mark:. Orton's on fire at the minute, Seamus/Christian/Cena will all do work and Bryan's gonna Bryan. I think they'll give us a cracking match with the ending set to be a moment, I'm just not quite sure what type of moment lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually asked Bret what he thought of Flair once .

He told me that Flair is too formulaic for his tastes and that Flair is "more like Hogan than he would want you to believe".

This came about because he signed a copy of his DVD for me and I told him that it's probably the best release they've done alongside Rey's & Flair's to which Bret responded "Not a Michaels fan? How many chops and turnbuckle spots are there on the Flair DVD?"

GOOD OL 4/10 STRIKES AGAIN :lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I actually asked Bret what he thought of Flair once .
> 
> He told me that Flair is too formulaic for his tastes and that Flair is "more like Hogan than he would want you to believe".
> 
> ...


If you meet him again you should ask for further explanation on 4/10, what his thoughts are on Natalya's farting gimmick and how he felt when Paul Levesque applied the Sharpshooter in a match just a few days after said comments.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If I had to tell him that I'm a PAUL LEVESQUE GUY, he probably would have slowly hobbled over to me and put me in a very sloppy sharpshooter :lol.

Bret is still the man though, even if he is borderline INSANE at times :lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Somebody should meet him wearing a shirt that says IM A PAUL LEVESQUE GUY on the front and EVOLUTION/HORSEMEN > HART FOUNDATION on the back. In fact I'm almost certain he's coming to my town in March. There's an idea......


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't Bret present the MOTY award at the Slammy's to Cena after Bret said that Rock/Cena II was shitty?

Fucking HHH trolling Bret :lol :lol :lol :lol.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

King Cal said:


> 97 was already done by Cornette . And he's doing 98 too :mark:.


Now that will be interesting. So much stuff to talk about during that year. I was hoping Russo would do 98, but Cornette ins't a bad choice.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Didn't Bret present the MOTY award at the Slammy's to Cena after Bret said that Rock/Cena II was shitty?
> 
> Fucking HHH trolling Bret :lol :lol :lol :lol.


Only thing to beat that was if he had to present it to HHH for the cage match against Brock. 

:HHH2

Speaking of Rocky/Cena, just got done watching it and that spot where Cena trolls with the People's Elbow is :lmao. I imagine you of all people appreciated that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Still haven't watched Rock/Cena II since the night it happened. I don't know why but I just can't bring myself to it. Not because it was bad, but I just don't have the desire. I even rewatched Bork/HHH II and liked it much more the second time after it bored the HELL out of me live.

Excited to see Orton face "Seamus" tonight. They have never had a match with Orton as heel, should be great if the rest of the gauntlet is anything to go by.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I actually asked Bret what he thought of Flair once .
> 
> He told me that Flair is too formulaic for his tastes and that Flair is "more like Hogan than he would want you to believe".
> 
> ...


:lmao :lmao

So many things I want to respond to this with, but I cant stop laughing. What did he mean by Michaels fan ?

How dare he think so lowly of older me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> I believe he is doing 1992.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Actually had to stop and think what Bret did in 1992. Best carryjob until Cesaro last year. I can buy this.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Still haven't watched Rock/Cena II since the night it happened. I don't know why but I just can't bring myself to it. Not because it was bad, but I just don't have the desire. I even rewatched Bork/HHH II and liked it much more the second time after it bored the HELL out of me live.
> 
> Excited to see Orton face "Seamus" tonight. They have never had a match with Orton as heel, should be great if the rest of the gauntlet is anything to go by.


Well I finally started watching a lot of 2013 stuff these past few days. Rock/Cena II is...full of finishers? I think that's an apt description. There are some cool moments in there but yeah, total finisher fest is really what it all boils down to. 

On the other hand however, Regal/Cesaro from NXT was really gritty. My only problem is that it felt like they were trying to cram too much into the time they had. I wish they got longer and therefore had more time to tell the story they were trying to tell and this would have been something special. It's still a great watch though, just never kicked into that other gear imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret in 1992 did... overrated IC title match with Bulldog then won the WWF title in a shitty match with Flair. Am I missing anything?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea only things I remember from Bret that year is the flair match and the IC match w/ Davey, both being p.bad. Oh yea that p.trashy svs match with Shawn as well


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of 1992, anyone know why Flair wasn't at SummerSlam? Was it punishment for the WM blade job or something.

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Well I finally started watching a lot of 2013 stuff these past few days. Rock/Cena II is...full of finishers? I think that's an apt description. There are some cool moments in there but yeah, total finisher fest is really what it all boils down to.
> 
> On the other hand however, Regal/Cesaro from NXT was really gritty. My only problem is that it felt like they were trying to cram too much into the time they had. I wish they got longer and therefore had more time to tell the story they were trying to tell and this would have been something special. It's still a great watch though, just never kicked into that other gear imo.



I'm usually not big of picking nits with matches that are already classics IMO, especially where length is concerned, but you might be right. I have that 2/3 Falls match ****1/2 on last watch, it was behind only the Punk/Brock and Punk/Taker matches for my 2013 MotY, but If they had say 3-4 more minutes and spaced things out a tad more and allowed for a bit more selling and maybe a slightly lengthier Cesaro control segment, it could have been a damn near flawless borderline 5-star match. That said, I'm still absolutely thrilled WWE gave us that match, those two are magic in the ring. I cannot wait until WWE gets off their ass and finds a spot for Zayn on the main roster.

I could easily see Zayn having a Bryan-like rise to popularity if they would just let him go out and do his thing for 10-15 minutes a week on national television. He makes it borderline impossible not to root for him with his gritty under dog working style.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm usually not big of picking nits with matches that are already classics IMO, especially where length is concerned, but you might be right. I have that 2/3 Falls match ****1/2 on last watch, it was behind only the Punk/Brock and Punk/Taker matches for my 2013 MotY, but If they had say 3-4 more minutes and spaced things out a tad more and allowed for a bit more selling and maybe a slightly lengthier Cesaro control segment, it could have been a damn near flawless borderline 5-star match. That said, I'm still absolutely thrilled WWE gave us that match, those two are magic in the ring. I cannot wait until WWE gets off their ass and finds a spot for Zayn on the main roster.
> 
> I could easily see Zayn having a Bryan-like rise to popularity if they would just let him go out and do his thing for 10-15 minutes a week on national television. He makes it borderline impossible not to root for him with his gritty under dog working style.


I think you're getting the matches mixed up. I was talking about REGAL/Cesaro lol. But yes, Zayn/Cesaro is pretty nifty itself. I have it on the list to check out again and very much look forward to the rematch on NXT Arrival so I won't speak too much on it just yet. Also, I watched both those other matches today and Punk/Lesnar is a million miles better than Punk/Taker could ever hope to be. The gap between them is an entire stratosphere imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I think you're getting the matches mixed up. I was talking about REGAL/Cesaro lol. But yes, Zayn/Cesaro is pretty nifty itself. I have it on the list to check out again and very much look forward to the rematch on NXT Arrival so I won't speak too much on it just yet. Also, I watched both those other matches today and Punk/Lesnar is a million miles better than Punk/Taker could ever hope to be. The gap between them is an entire stratosphere imo.



Oh man I'm an idiot I don't know why I saw Zayn/Cesaro there, Regal/Cesaro is absolutely amazing too and would be in my top 5 for 2013 as well. I think Lesnar/Punk is a good deal better than Taker/Punk too, but I also think Taker/Punk is still better than every other match in 2013. Just shows how highly I think of that Summerslam Match.

Yes, you absolutely should make Zayn/Cesaro a priority to watch, it's even better than Regal/Cesaro I think. After that check out Neville/Zayn. Its a tad spotty in some places but it's still excellent.

Just found this on YouTube. I honestly never realized these two had had a match together. Very good stuff, I really liked it. It's amazing how good Eddie is with his body completely broken down at this point. He's probably at less than 50% here, and he still manages a damn good TV match with a young Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Eddie in a 20 minute PPV match that year would have been a classic. Shame Eddie passed away at that time because they were no doubt gonna work together more had he been alive.

That SD match is just a small sample of what they would've been capable of.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT CENA :berried DAT :cesaro

:mark: :christian is killing it out there.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Heel :christian is back :mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

PGSucks said:


> Heel :christian is back :mark:


Great heel work from Christian and awesome selling from Bryan. The Kane match was just Kane working on Bryan's injury, a few boring chants but once Bryan "hulked" up the crowd came back alive, it didn't last long. Great work From Kane and Bryan for this feud to continue.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton vs Eddie in a 20 minute PPV match that year would have been a classic. Shame Eddie passed away at that time because they were no doubt gonna work together more had he been alive.
> 
> That SD match is just a small sample of what they would've been capable of.



Yea that's really all I could think about watching that match. Orton was already very good but I think he and Eddie both would have benefitted from a nice 1-2 PPV feud. Eddie was amazing in 2005, he went from being a great baby face to the best heel in the business to a great baby face all in the same 6 month span. I can't remember if he was just teasing a face turn or if he was really going back to the good side, from the crowd reaction in that match you can tell all the fans loved him. Id think the money would have been in him staying heel and going after Batista for real instead of staying his friend. Either way he and Orton would have a guarunteed classic on if they got 20 minutes at a PPV.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Need to re-watch Cesaro/Cena but I have it T ***3/4 on first watch and definitely by WWE MOTY thus far.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Both Christian/Bryan and Cena/Cesaro are at ****1/2* for me. Hopefully Sheamus/Orton will follow suit. Neither matches are in my top ten for the year though. Love it when Cena puts in the effort to make his opponents look that much better. He never did it from 2005-2012, but since then, he's been doing it more often and it's a pleasure to watch him deviate from the norm.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Maybe overrating it but I enjoyed the hell out of that. So good. First watch I give it a ****1/4, but I'll have to watch it again later in the week.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro/Cena... WOW! MOTY thus far. ****

Bryan/Christian was good, but nowhere near Cesaro/Cena ***


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Oh damn, that Cesaro/Cena match was pretty damn sweet. 2nd best WWE match of the year so far, after Bray/Bryan.

Definitely ***3/4


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Cesaro/Cena on Raw was a pretty good match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did Christian turn heel? Ah fuck, that's terrible.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah, very.

Heel Christian in 2014. lol.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ppv Sunday turns out better than Mania this year.

Ok that might be a stretch but whatever.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Good Raw.

Bryan/Christian was good. Christian did a good job working the shoulder and being aggressive, probably being frustrated about being the only guy who didn't beat Orton in the gauntlet. I thought his "being desperate" promo from a couple weeks back played off in this match with Christian acting like a total heel (mocking the Yes chants and whatnot). Bryan's selling was great as well.

Cena/Cesaro was great. Cesaro looked like a million bucks and Cena did a good job too by teasing that the Cesaro swing wasn't going to happen on him and when it did happen, it was more special. Just a great match with good back and forth action. I expected Cena to win, but it didn't matter, match was fun to watch and Cesaro confirming he's one of the top workers in WWE. I'd have this match tied with Bryan/Orton as TV MOTY, but as of now, I'm leaning towards Cena/Cesaro.

Orton/Sheamus was fine for what it was. Glad to see Shield and the Wyatts duking it out at the end. :mark: Makes Elimination Chamber really interesting to watch.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Awesome end to RAW. Been a solid episode with 3 very good matches to build up the Chamber match and a few storyline advancers in feuds such as Titus/Darren, Shield/Wyatt and Usos/NAO.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Bryan vs. Christian - ***1/4

Cesaro vs. Cena - ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Best Raw Ive seen in a very very long time, whole show was a blast with some slow part per usual

Bryan/Christian was tremendous guy are short changing it from what Ive seen, loved it and need to rewatch to see if it holds up, The heel turn of Christian is a bit lol worthy but His aggressive nature made the match work, Bryan selling the arm work like a champ. This is in the Top tier of matches this year 1-2 this year for me

Cesaro/Cena was tremendous and maybe MOTY with another watch, just kept building and Tony showing off the arsenal like the orton match on sd. Cena's selling was money and liked the finish.

Henry/reigns was fun and p.good as well

Didnt get to see Orton/Sheamus but it looked decent from what I saw

All in all (Y) this is why I'm a wrestling fan


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Punked Up said:


> Bryan vs. Christian - ***1/4
> 
> Cesaro vs. Cena - ****


This.

I would have gave Bryan/Christian 4 stars if they didn't take Ad breaks every few minutes. The crowd were into it though. Bryan's selling was amazing and Christian heeled it up brilliantly.

Cesaro and Cena was great both men deserve props. Cesaro has some freakish strength it's amazing. Cesaro is a future Main Eventer that's for sure.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Cena really meshes with these heralded indy wrestlers. I think that Cena personally takes it upon himself to prove to the wrestlers coming in with a reputation for being a renowned wrestler that he can hang in their wheelhouse too and that despite being formulatic and his reputation, Cena is no slouch. I notice the contests vs Bryan, Punk, Rollins and now Cesaro: these are some of the best matches in Cena's career but they aren't carry jobs, Cena has done his share in all these matches, I just think Cena sees wrestling psychologically and technically superior wrestlers with more expansive movesets as a challenge to keep up with, and often through slick counters and minding his move spacing better, Cena rises to the occasion. If Neville ever gets up to a servicable level where he can face Cena even in a friendly contest, I would expect a damn good match with a good mix of chain wrestling and counters.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Cena sounds swell. Between tonight's Raw and Friday's SmackDown I got some good stuff to catch up on.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Christian/Bryan - ***1/4

The ad breaks really killed it. I'm hoping one of the perks of the Network will be commercial-free replays of Raw with the missing action filled in. 

Cena/Cesaro - ****1/4

-MOTY along with Bray/Bryan.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RATINGZ for tonight:

Bryan/Christian- ***1/4
Reigns/Henry- *
Cesaro/Cena- ****
Orton/Sheamus- **3/4

Bryan/Christian is 1/4* higher than what I had it at before. Really, I just didn't feel like typing out the "1/4" part on my phone. 

Arm work by Christian and selling by Bryan was great. Set-up and the match itself reminded me of Sandow/Cena from October... though not quite as good, which is odd since I put Christian and Bryan both above Sandow and Cena as workers, but maybe the title match factor helped the latter. In any event, still a really good match.

Reigns/Henry was basically the same as their match for December... terribly boring 3 minute match. This match shows just how far ahead kayfabe wise Reigns is ahead of Ambrose. They aren't even close. Honestly right now, to put it in DBZ terms (since I recently read through that thread and saw a few familiar faces from this one), Ambrose is Android 17 and Reigns is Android 16.

Cesaro/Cena... what a fucking match. Back and fourth, Cesaro looking like a million bucks against Cena, a pretty unique way into the AA, and DAT CESARO SWING ON CENA :mark: Match flowed excellently and is easily my MOTY right now. #2 in Bryan/Wyatt from the Rumble isn't even close. I was expecting a great match, but not the level that we got. Cesaro on the mic tonight wasn't terrible either... however they should let Zeb do the majority of the talking for as long as their together, which hopefully is awhile. Cesaro however is one of the two guys that I can say have made me a big fan based solely on their in-ring work. I mean, I think Bryan's better, but Cesaro's wrestling ability combined with his immense strength and old-school look just make him something else. The other guy btw, was Finlay, who I was a full-fledged mark for.

Orton/Sheamus was pretty good. Bland, but good. With this match, it makes them one of the unique combinations to have wrestled in every different alignment combination (face vs. face, heel vs. heel, A Face vs. B Heel, and A Heel vs. B Face:

Orton (heel) vs. Sheamus (heel) was at Royal Rumble 2010
Orton (face) vs. Sheamus (heel) was at Hell in a Cell, and I think Summerslam 2010 (?)
Orton (face) vs. Sheamus (face) was on SD 2012, and Raw after Mania last year
Orton (heel) vs. Sheamus (face) on Raw this week

Pretty interesting imo. I know Taker/HHH have wrestled in all those combinations, but that's all I've got.


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Gonna have to rewatch both Cesaro matches because I kept falling asleep during the Orton one but the Cena one ruled. A few sloppy moments and botches but overall, probably a MOTYC and *** 3/4-**** right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Bret in 1992 did... overrated IC title match with Bulldog then won the WWF title in a shitty match with Flair. Am I missing anything?


vs Piper at WM VIII.

FUCK


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching SmackDown now. Off to a good start with Shield v Bryan/Christian/Sheamus. Don't think it had as much behind it as the Real Americans tag or the Mysterio six man from the week before but it was definitely good, especially the finishing stretch. Reigns continues to impress. That apron drop kick he does now is a great addition to his already bossy move set.

EDIT: Miz v Fandango = fast forward


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw notes as I watched it:

Is it wrong that I was paying more attention to the "doge" sign in the crowd during the opening segemtn? 

So tonight we have Sheamus/Orton. Meh. Not currently looking forward to it. I am however excited for:

CESARO Vs Cena
REIGNS VS HENRY :mark:

And the first match of the night... CHRISTIAN VS BRYAN!!! Wait... is that... is that a fucking BLUE DOT on Christian't t-shirt? Fucks sake.

AGGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN~!

Kane getting a BIRD'S EYE VIEW of this match. By standing at ringside. Not entirely sure Kane understands words.

Arm work in a Christian match... and it's CHRISTIAN DOING THE ARM WORK? Well that's certainly something new . He's pretty great at it too lol. Had his own arm mauled enough over the years so he fecking should know what to do .

Find it odd how they are using Christian leading up to the EC. Only guy (so far... Sheamus COULD lose... lol) to lose to Orton, got kicked in the face by his own tag partner and lose on SD... and now put in a HEEL position against the most popular guy in the company. Plus the blue dot crap.

Love how the arm work comes into play for the finish and wasn't just wasting time. Bryan still wins duh. Fun match.

Bryan Vs Kane tonight! Or next? Yes, right now!

Kane is wrestling in shoes, black trousers and a VEST. KANE. Anyone else finding this HILARIOUS? 

Mr Lawler, Mr Cole, Mr Jibble. FUCKING SHUT UP YOU PATHETIC USELESS SHITTY CUNTS.

:lmao boring chants :lmao. Followed immediately by CHEERING because Bryan began a comeback .

KANE GRABS BRYAN BY THE THROAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING AND HITS A CHOKESL... OH WAIT HE THROWS HIM OUT OF THE RING INSTEAD. BECAUSE. STUFF. NITPICKING~!

Kane is trying to injure Bryan so he won't win the EC. Gets DQ'd trying to do it. But Kane knows that.

RENE! She looks like she's gagging for it when she's surrounded by THE SHIELD.

Oh hey Santino and Emma and Fandango and Summer and FAST FORWARD! 

:lmao RENE still looks like she's gagging for it, this time with HENRY. Slut.

:lmao at the "boo this man" sign with a pic of Batista underneath. That + DOGE = GOAT RAW.

BIG BASTARDS CLUBBING EACH OTHER :mark:. RENE is touching herself backstage.

Ambrose is IMPRESSED with the Samoan Drop, but also finds it funny that Henry kicked out.

JYD HEADBUTT.

Fuck me Cole picked up on the JYD tribute.

SUPERMAN PUNCH~!

SPEAR~!

REIGNS FUCKING WINS~!

Short match but damn good for the time.

:lmao Rollins is the cheerleader of the group. Ambrose is just mental.

I GOT THE JOY JOY JOY JOY DOWN IN MY HEART~! I wanna watch The Simpsons for some reason...

So what are people's thoughts on Bray and his promos? They SOUND cool and shit but... do they ever go anywhere? Do they actually mean ANYTHING?

SHIELD VS WYATT FAMILY SHOWDOWN~!

GOLDUST AND CODY... playing with toys.

:lmao at Barrett basically becomming a beach bully.

Why does a new Undertaker toy come with a bike? OMG DEAD MAN UNDERTAKER GONNA RETURN AS A ABA HYBRID FOR REALSIES!!! :side:

Swaggie Vs UC. No thanks.

Big E stuff. Skippy skippy.

IVAN DRAGO PROMO~!

RENE~! Now she wants some of Cena. Whore.

CESARO TIME!!!

So Cole explains why he's just called Cesaro now. It's a throwback. Lawler ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE when he says "throwback to what? when people only had one name?". So what happens? Both Cole and JBL go quiet and ignore him...

CESARO POWERING CENA AROUND :mark:.

Top rope elbow drop? From Cesaro? Kewl .

Cena with a... half nelson slam into a neckbreaker? Kewl .

HURRICANRANA FROM CENA AND CESARO MADE IT LOOK GOOD! FALL AWAY SLAM WITH A BRIDGE~! CESARO IS THE MOST BESTEST~!

:lmao Cesaro is dry humping Cena while applying a sleeper. RAPE~!

CESARO AVOIDS 5 MOVES OF DOOM!!! COUNTERS STF~! POWERS CENA DOWN~!

:mark: THE UPPERCUT.

Also kinda like Dutch making sure he moves back and moves Swagger back when Cena gets to the ropes near them, making sure they can't interfere because CESARO doesn't fucking need help even against Cena. CESARO IS KING.

Sweet counter to the giant swing!!!

:mark: THAT FUCKING UPPERCUT :mark:.

:mark: THAT SUPLEX :mark:.

STF COUNTERED INTO THE GIANT SWING :mark:.

Is Bryan still the best in the company btw? Because Cesaro has been looking like the best for a while now.

OMG THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME :mark:.

Cena wins but I don't even mind. CESARO IS INCREDIBLE. INCREDIBLE. IN. FUCKING. CREDIBLE.

HHH, Randy and Batista backstage. Cure for my insomnia? 

Del Rio is still around?

RENE AGAIN. Still gagging for some wrestler cock.

El Matadors. El skipthematchadors.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS, CHILDREN OF ALL AGES. D-GENERATION X PROUDLY BRINGS TO YOU, IT'S WWE TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS IN TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING FOUR BECAUSE HHH IS A CUNT... THE OLD. AGE. OUTLAWS.

Billy Vs Uso. Usos get a title shot at the PPV? Skip x 2.

RENE has suffered from dehydration so that NXT commentator is conducting interviews instead.

Christian Vs Sheamus on SD. Meh. Like Orton/Sheamus, I just don't care for their chemistry, or lack off.

Orton/Sheamus had some good brawling. And a table spot. But I still couldn't really get into it. It IS 6:30am though so maybe I'm just tired. Glad this only got about 12 minutes though. I'd likely have given up if it was 20 mins lol.

THE SHIELD INTERFERE BECAUSE... STUFF! OTHER CHAMBER DUDES SHOW UP. WYATT FAMILY. BRAWL. BECAUSE STUFF!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> RENE still looks like she's gagging for it, this time with HENRY. Slut.


I stopped here b/c...the imagination got to work. Not w/Henry. But w/...you know...

the hell is going on here?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro v Randy Orton - SmackDown (2/14/14)
Orton looks like a different worker to the guy I've been bashing for months. It's true that his two standout efforts this year have come against the company's top two wrestlers but his individual performances have been good and I thought he was really good here. Totally dug him faking a shoulder injury to gain an advantage. That's the kind of stuff he should be doing more of instead of just going through the motions with stomps, kicks, punches, rest holds and signature moves. So much more interesting. And there was his selling of Cesaro's giant swing which is far and away the best selling of the move I've seen. Initially how he sold it as something he desperately wanted to avoid and even better how he sold the effects of it afterwards. Great stuff. Cesaro's offense went a long way to making this what it was (holy cow at that uppercut in the corner early on) but Orton's performance stood out to me more, maybe because I don't expect as much from him. I wouldn't quite call it a great match tbh. Something's holding me back from giving it that sort of praise. Very, very good though. I'm gonna add it to the list because funnyfaces wants me too and it's a match I feel comfortable pointing to favorably as far as 2014 Orton is concerned. Plus it was the biggest win of Cesaro's career so far.



Spoiler: Cream of the Crop '14



1. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
2. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
3. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
4. Cesaro v Randy Orton - SmackDown (2/14/14)
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

King Cal said:


> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS, CHILDREN OF ALL AGES. D-GENERATION X PROUDLY BRINGS TO YOU, IT'S WWE TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS IN TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING FOUR BECAUSE HHH IS A CUNT... THE OLD. AGE. OUTLAWS.


The worst part is that even though this is a typo, the NAO still would've looked ridiculous with the tag belts in 2004. And to think the tag division looked so good just a few months back. fpalm Oh, and :renee :mark:

Didn't catch Cena vs. Cesaro tonight, but I'll watch that after class tomorrow with the reviews it's getting. I'll also probably give Bryan vs. Christian another watch


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Not sure what the problem is with NAO being tag champs. A transitional heel team needed to take the belts off of Cody and Goldust before flipping them to the Usos. The Wyatt Family aren't going to be transitional for obvious reasons, the Shield are breaking up, Real Americans are likely breaking up with Cesaro turning face, and Rybaxel isn't credible at all at the moment. There wasn't another viable option at the time.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

****1/4 fo Cesaro/Cen
***1/4 for Bryan/Chistin
*** for Sheamus/Orton

A pretty damn good edition of RAW if you ask me


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

****3/4 for Cena vs Cesaro. Hard to see this not being match of the year for 2014.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Raw sounds excellent.

Cesaro-Cena, Bryan-Christian, Reigns-Henry and Orton-Sheamus on paper is probably better than what we'll get at Wrestlemania. :lmao

Cant wait to see Cesaro-Cena.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Don't know which DVD to watch next:

Pillman, Flair or Eddie Guerrero as Black Tiger in Japan :hmm:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Don't know which DVD to watch next:
> 
> Pillman, Flair or Eddie Guerrero as Black Tiger in Japan :hmm:


Definitely go with Flair. Guaranteed to be good, at the very least. Black Tiger stuff isn't "Eddie Eddie" level if that makes any sense.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Definitely go with Flair. Guaranteed to be good, at the very least. Black Tiger stuff isn't "Eddie Eddie" level if that makes any sense.


Apart from the fabulous Eddie/Benoit match from '96. I haven't seen anything other that though tbh. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Apart from the fabulous Eddie/Benoit match from '96. I haven't seen anything other that though tbh.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



There is a pretty damn good Eddie(Black Tiger)/Benoit match from 1994 on Benoits set. If you need a link let me know and I'll try to find it for you. He also had a really good match with Liger that used to be on YouTube I'll have to check.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> There is a pretty damn good Eddie(Black Tiger)/Benoit match from 1994 on Benoits set. If you need a link let me know and I'll try to find it for you. He also had a really good match with Liger that used to be on YouTube I'll have to check.


Yeah mate, I have Benoit's dvd but haven't watched it all yet. I'll have to see that Eddie/Liger match, it may be on a Liger comp I have...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah that Tiger/Pegasus match from 1996 is super fab. Aside from his set with Rey, I think Eddy ranked that as his best match.

It isn't necessarily that his work was bad (as he had some truly good showings and was miles better than some of his Japan work from earlier in the decade; eg his rather bland, comparatively, exhibition with Liger in 1992) but I wouldn't rank it close to post-2002 Eddy work. Then again, what is? Rather, if there's an unwatched Flair dvd that's going to win each and every time amid lower picks. It's Flair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch. :hayley3


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Definitely go with Flair. Guaranteed to be good, at the very least. Black Tiger stuff isn't "Eddie Eddie" level if that makes any sense.


Nah. Eddie, in the ring, was much better 94/95ish-98 than he ever was from 02 on. No surprise - back surgeries, knee/neck injuries take their toll on what you can do. The impressive stuff from 02-05 isn't him in the ring. It's his character and how well he adjusted to the 'E that is most impressive.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie 02-05 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eddie pre 02. And Eddie pre 02 was fucking awesome too. Don't even have to think for a moment about it. He has more great matches from 02-05 than the rest of his career. Matches with RVD, tag stuff with Chavo and Tajiri, matches with Benoit, Lesnar, REY MYSTERIO SERIES, Big Show, JBL etc are basically better than everything he did prior to 02 bar a handful of matches here and there (HH 97 with Rey, FB with Jericho (I think? I forget the actual event lol), Nitro with Benoit (THAT POWERBOMB), Flair Hog Wild & Nitro, tag Vs FACES OF FEAR).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I really enjoyed Eddie's Black Tiger era from New Japan. Bunch of good stuff.


Cena/Cesaro ****

Yep... Great match. It was based on smart work and strength, there were nice periods of power struggle which I enjoyed. Interesting, these past few days I've watched a dozen of pimped WWE matches from the recent period, and based on that (and the 2013 stuff I've seen too) Danielson is the guy I'm the least into. At least from the main event scene. Can't fucking stand his annoying persona, tbf. Cesaro is way, WAY more appealing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with Raw. Great show and awesome ending even though I'm wondering why Randy just disappeared during the brawl.

Bryan vs Christian - ★★★¼
Cesaro vs Cena - ★★★★ (Just non-stop greatness. These two should have some classics together in the near future)
Orton vs Sheamus - ★★★


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cesaro/Cena was FANTASTIC and a money feud in the future. I don't think in 2014 that ANYBODY is doubting Cena's in-ring prowess besides the few who criticize him for his moves and whatnot, the dude is a straight up BEAST and one of the greatest workers in company history. ****** seems right for this match, GREAT shit. Cesaro has been the best in the company for a while now and will finally be acknowledged as such soon due to getting high profile matches thank god. The motherfucker carried KOFI to a MOTYC. KOFI. MOTYC. Two words that don't belong in the same sentence besides "Kofi Kingston will NEVER be in a MOTYC because he's fucking AWFUL!"

Just popped in the third disc of the "My Journey" DVD to check out HBK/Taker but I might check out HBK/Orton & HBK/Jericho as well. Seems like the kind of day to watch some Michaels matches damn it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness that I rewatched Cena/Cesaro before my exam. I too upgraded it to four star territory. Cesaro has had four straight MOTN, all on stacked shows. 2014 is his year.

Let's not get too carried away though. His match against the piece of dog shit was great, but it was barely top 40 last year.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Totally enjoyed Cena/Cesaro like everyone else, and I liked how they didn't have Cena kick out of the Neutralizer, but found a way to counter it. Cesaro countering the protoplex was also pretty cool. Best Raw match this year, easily.

Listening to Austin's podcast with Cena, and Austin just asked Cena to snug up on the STF :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> - Cesaro received a standing ovation backstage at RAW Monday night after his match with John Cena.





> Cesaro has finally won Vince McMahon over after his stellar match against John Cena last night on RAW, according to SEScoops.com.
> 
> Vince was said to be “thrilled” with the match and has finally recognized Cesaro’s potential.
> 
> ...


:mark:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Eddie 02-05 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eddie pre 02. And Eddie pre 02 was fucking awesome too. Don't even have to think for a moment about it. He has more great matches from 02-05 than the rest of his career. Matches with RVD, tag stuff with Chavo and Tajiri, matches with Benoit, Lesnar, REY MYSTERIO SERIES, Big Show, JBL etc are basically better than everything he did prior to 02 bar a handful of matches here and there (HH 97 with Rey, FB with Jericho (I think? I forget the actual event lol), Nitro with Benoit (THAT POWERBOMB), Flair Hog Wild & Nitro, tag Vs FACES OF FEAR).


HH '97 beats any Rey/Eddie match, ever. Ever, ever. Not even close. His matches with Benoit were also miles better, in the ring, than in the E - again, no surprise - he was at his peak physically in those years (hell, so were Rey and Chris).

I can throw a list together later on (on my lunch break!), but no. It's like asking if any athlete is better physically at 40 than they are at 30. The question answers itself.

(Full disclosure: I'm a HUGE Eddie mark so I'm not slighting his 02 on in any way).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was Eddie a better athlete in the mid-90's compared to 02-05? Yes. Was he having BETTER MATCHES? For the most part I completely disagree.

Not high on much of his Japan work tbh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's SO much money to be made with him. Like I said before, he has every single tool necessary to be not one of the top guys but rather THE GUY after Cena. He has the strength that the WWE loves, a fantastic look, other-worldly in-ring ability, and great mic ability when given the chance.

The Backlash 2007 main event that I just watched is bundles of fun. Michaels turned the burner on big time, Edge and Orton were great slimeball heels, and Cena was the man as usual. It turns into a finisher fest near the end but that's expected in such a multi-man match and it never becomes forced at all. Great, great stuff. Another thing everybody seems to forget about PAST ORTON, (like 2004-2006) is that he had one of the coolest entrances ever with the pose and unique pyro, only to ditch it for the terrible slow, plodding entrance he has now. DAMN IT RANDY GET SOME TASTE :lol. I'd give this one **** 3/4* for what it is, it isn't an old school brawl filled with hatred but it was FUN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Let's not get too carried away though. His match against the piece of dog shit was great, but it was barely top 40 last year.


It could be a top ten match for me if I were to bother and make a list. But screw that. It's amazing and all by one man. Mind effectively blown. If I can cope w/the world's worst in this scenario, anyone can! _(b/c my HATE is at alarming levels)_

Also, Vince has his head out of his ass w/Cesaro? :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> There's SO much money to be made with him. Like I said before, he has every single tool necessary to be not one of the top guys but rather THE GUY after Cena. He has the strength that the WWE loves, a fantastic look, other-worldly in-ring ability, and *great mic ability when given the chance.*


I've yet to see the bold, but no doubt if he does get better on the mic, he could be "The Guy". To be fair though, I thought his promo on Raw was pretty decent, and it's a major improvement over what I remembered of him. So he's heading in the right direction, and even without considering his mic work, just keep him with Zeb, let Zeb do the talking, and Cesaro could be the top heel to Cena (or Bryan's) top face. I'd be perfectly happy with that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Daniel Bryan Vs The Big Show Vs Mark Henry - WHC WWE MSG 18.03.2012

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kr2iLrYlhsfZFj5wx6e

Downloaded another random MSG house show last night. Not watched it myself yet, but looks a ton of fun on paper. No crappy cage gimmick limiting them + house show so they can do what the fuck they want pretty much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know the cage match was limited when it was all said and done. However, I don't mind that match. Thought it was fun. So...yeah. All of this means is I'm plenty excited to check out that house show match. Got loads of POTENTIAL.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did you check out the tag team cage match I posted the other day?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Oh man I'm an idiot I don't know why I saw Zayn/Cesaro there, Regal/Cesaro is absolutely amazing too and would be in my top 5 for 2013 as well. I think Lesnar/Punk is a good deal better than Taker/Punk too, but I also think Taker/Punk is still better than every other match in 2013. Just shows how highly I think of that Summerslam Match.
> 
> Yes, you absolutely should make Zayn/Cesaro a priority to watch, it's even better than Regal/Cesaro I think. After that check out Neville/Zayn. Its a tad spotty in some places but it's still excellent.


I've seen Zayn/Cesaro already and loved it but I usually wait until the second watch to confirm my thoughts. I have it on the list to watch again, maybe next week before NXT Arrival when they square off again. Taker/Punk has some good moments but nowhere near enough drama for a streak match imo. I'm not about to dredge that conversation up again though. Suffice it to say that the Summerslam match blows it out of the freaking water and comfortably so. 

*Cesaro/Orton - ***1/2
Cesaro/Cena - ***3/4
*
It does make me lol that they're pretending that Orton is the measuring stick yet everybody knows it's really Cena. That's why Cesaro beat Orton but didn't beat Cena because when you beat JAWN, it's a right of passage to the next level. They rightfully held off on that moment for Cesaro and he still came out of that match looking a million bucks. Great stuff.

I don't know about anybody else but I'm genuinely :mark: for the PPV on Sunday, the last _ever _PPV before the Network Era is upon us. How crazy is that? The Chamber match has all the ingredients to be a cracker and Shield/Wyatts just might make me lose my mind. Call me fucking crazy too but I'm possibly feeling optimistic for Mania :argh:. 

Bryan/Hunter
Brock/Taker
Cena/Wyatt
Seamus/Cesaro
Shield Implosion

If all ^^^^^^ that happens I got no problem at all with that. Naturally I'm not too keen on Batista/Orton but fuck, they have the chance to put a lot of shine on some of the new guys here. I'll wait until I actually see the card announced before I say I'm okay with everything but I do see potential there. It's all in the booking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Did you check out the tag team cage match I posted the other day?


Not yet. I should do so in a bit. Saw the moonsault spot a while back tho.

----------

Sunday is a two match show on paper and that's the main reason I wished they would do away w/it entirely. Nothing but filler on the majority w/the only kickers being a Cesaro push it appears and the six man dream match we've been wanting. I'm down for Titus vs Darren over all the rest of the card too b/c I enjoy those dudes, however that isn't anything that couldn't be done on TV and probably w/WAY more time/less rush to actually be something. Doesn't help they stuck the tag match I'd care to see on the pre-show, meanwhile the championships have been lowered down to nothing again by who's competing for 'em. Shame. They used to matter a month ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm a huge, massive fan of Halloween Havoc 1997 Eddie/Rey, but I would honestly put their 2005 Smackdown match ahead of it, let alone the 2004 match Eddie had with JBL at JD. The WWE matches are more substance over style I think. As good as Eddie's character in 1997 was, I think his heel character in 2005 was even better. He just seemed more dangerous, more sick, more evil in 2005. All things I look for in a great heel. Eddie did some great chicken shit stuff in 1997 though.

In deciding which Eddie is better, 1994-1998 or 2002-2005, it really comes down to whether you prefer the pure WCW Cruiserweight/Lucha/Japanese style he worked back then, or how he incorporated all those styles and blended them into the WWE story driven style he worked when he came back from rehab. Personally I prefer the latter, and it's not even close tbh. Eddie in 1997 was probably the best wrestler in the world, but so was Eddie in 2004-2005 and I liked the style of match he worked in the later years better. And personally, I don't think 1997 Eddie was capable of having a match like the JD 2004 massacre he had with JBL. Eddie even admits as much in the commentary he does on the HH 97' match with Rey on his DVD. He says he matured a lot in the ring, learned to slow things down, and realized how important character was once he got to WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh lord. Eddie vs Mysterio from Smackdown in 2005 demolishes the Halloween Havoc match. And the latter is next to perfect too.

Topic is moot for the majority. Eddie is Eddie. Aka godly, great, the best, etc.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Lesnar>Taker/Punk, but not by a lot. I've come to that after watching Taker/Punk recently and for the first time with it being the last one of the two I watched, not saying it was better than Punk/Lesnar. Amazing matches for a different set of reasons, with Punk killing it as both a face and a heel. The two best Punk matches, among the best for both Taker and Lesnar, and hell, both among the best matches I've seen/remember (which is like 98% WWE stuff, 1.999% WCW stuff, and .0001% or some ridiculous small fraction like that of other stuff).

I'm looking forward to EC for two reasons:

1) Shield/Wyatts
2) The Elimination Chamber

Outside of that, I don't have much interest. Titus/Young? Yawn. Batista/Del Rio? Yawn. Usos/NAO? Yawn. Don't even know what else is going on outside of the two main matches. Shield/Wyatts though is going to be epic. I expect the crowd to be crazy throughout it, and as long as they keep the pace up and the crowd into it, it could be a classic. The two super 3-man groups on the roster going at it.

Also, a bit off topic, but I recently realized that The Shield is The Corre concept done right. Nobody on The Shield really stands out as "The Leader", which is how they originally introduced The Corre. Rollins is the workhorse, Reigns is the powerhouse, and Ambrose is the talker, but all of them talk, all of them contribute in their matches equally, and up until recently, they all looked like equals... now though they're clearly looking to shove Reigns down our throats, which hopefully they hold off on.

But back to Wyatts/Shield, the fact two heel teams are getting those reactions from the crowds when they're facing off says a lot about the both of them. Hell, that got the biggest reaction of last night, when the two of them finally collided.

On the Chamber match itself, I'm looking forward to seeing how Cesaro uses the Chamber. Hopefully, they start with Bryan and Cesaro, let them kill it for 5 minutes and keep them both in through at least the final 3. If I had to guess on an order of entry/eliminations, it would be:

Bryan/Cesaro start off
Sheamus comes out of chamber first
Christian comes out of chamber second
Orton comes out of chamber third
Christian gets eliminated at this point (not because I want that, but because that's what I'm sure WWE will do)
Cena's the final entrant
Sheamus gets eliminated
Cena gets eliminated

At this point, Cesaro and Orton work over Bryan. Maybe Orton eliminates Cesaro at some point, and then to end the match, Bryan beats Orton, becomes champion, and goes on to face Batista for the title. Actually, part of me would like Batista to beat Bryan for the title immediately after he wins it, to keep The Authroity against Bryan, turns Batista heel (at least temporarily through Mania) and then Bryan finally gets and keeps the title there. I could actually see that happening too. Going off that, here's how I see the Mania card:

Bryan/Batista for the WWEWHC 
Taker/Lesnar
Cena/Wyatt
Reigns/HHH (only place I could fit HHH, plus this way he can win his first match as a heel, without having to go over Bryan or someone really great)
Orton/Sheamus
Rollins/Ambrose US Title
Cesaro/Swagger IC Title
Harper/Rowan vs. Usos for the Tag Titles

Alternatively, if they decided against Taker/Lesnar, have Taker face Bryan, and Lesnar face Batista for the title.

Wow, just realized how close we are to finally seeing what the Mania card is going to be. After months of speculation, theories, fantasy booking, I'll finally get to see if one of the million WM30 cards I've predicted since last year, comes true! :mark:


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Just finished watching Mr. Wrestlemania:



> - This is basically a mini-version of Heartbreak & Triumph and in a way an extension of it. HBK doesn't go over the matches that much though unfortunately.
> 
> - Jive Soul Bro has been dubbed over along with Jesse Ventura being muted so Gorilla Monsoon is talking to himself again. Its still awkward and takes away from the WM V and VI matches!
> 
> ...





Now for Shawn's thoughts:

- Shawn admits to fu**ing over his tag team partner! The Rockers were going to quit WWF for not getting their just due in 1991 then Shawn talked to Vince and reneged on Marty.

- Blames Hogan for WM IX being a negative show.

- Hates that Ramon doesn't get enough credit for the WM X match.

- Was angry he didn't get to headline WM XI.

- Wishes he hadn't been difficult with Austin for WM XIV.

- Admits that he is an insecure person.

- Had to get Whisper's blessing to do the match with Jericho.

- WM XX is mentioned, but all HBK says about it is it was cool.

- Mr. Wrestlemania was an impromptu nickname during a promo for WM XXI and has stuck ever since.

- He pushed for the match with Vince because he didn't want to steal Wrestlemania for a change, lol.

- He gave Vince a hard time over the years because Vince would never listen to him and would rub it in whenever Vince was proven wrong.

- He called the entire match for Flair and asked The Nature Boy to follow his lead without a peep.

- WM XXV is what made him decide to call it quits and wishes now that had been his last match.

- The blu ray interviews are the same ones from the shows, but HBK's deleted stories are cool exclusives.

*- Michaels confirms he's staying retired*.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"Monsoon talks to himself again" :lol

Any Flair/Savage matches from WCW worth seeking out?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Try em all except for their Lifeguard Lumberjack match from Bash at the Beach '95. Well, even so, that was still the best match on that show iirc. Purely decent at most.

Part of me regrets if Duggan vs Kamala was good and it flew under my radar.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kamala is one fatty that I will never enjoy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All the praise I hold out hope for in that match comes from Duggan, tbhayley.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eddie's two career matches are Havoc 97 and BOSJ v. Benoit to me but I don't think 90s Eddie is even remotely as good as WWE Eddie. Well, his peak MAY have been 97, but the rest isn't even close. He was very good in certain parts but other times he was kind of a generic babyface that just executed moves better than everybody else. Other than 97 he was never one of the best in the world in the 90s.

As a massive phatty advocate, Kamala is a 'personal' thing more than he is an actual good phatty. I still have hope he was consistently good in some period but I don't know when that is yet. Or if it exists.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RAW thoughts

Bryan/Christian: ***1/2

Cesaro/Cena: ****1/4 

Sheamus/Orton: ***

Cesaro/Cena is my new MOTY overtaking Bryan/Bray, God that match was fucking awesome. Christian/Bryan could have been a ****+ affair had it been given another 5-10 mins or so, but alas, wasn't meant to be. 

Orton/Sheamus was better than their post mania match I guess, fine for what it was.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Who else loves Perfect/Hogan (for WWF title) from MSG '90? Such an awesome match. ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I do Chismo, very good match


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

What are Cesaros best ROH matches?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Who else loves Perfect/Hogan (for WWF title) from MSG '90? Such an awesome match. ****


Never seen a Hennig/Hogan match.  ill have to dig that one out, thanks.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just some quick thoughts as Ive skimmed the past couple of pages 

- Shocked by the ratings that most dont have danielson/christian higher on the *, would personally have it in the **** range, arm work by Christian and selling by Bryan was tremendous

- I may actually prefer HH 97 > sd 05 these days, and that only because Ive realized Ive watch the HH match WAY more than the smackdown.

- Dying to see this new Michaels DVD for the DOC part


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Jbardo said:


> What are Cesaros best ROH matches?


The match with Morishima, bunch of decent tags with Hero, the Generico match, the Danielson series.

Oh, and that Nigel defense. I'm sure many will think of more.

I prefer his PWG stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Never seen a Hennig/Hogan match.  ill have to dig that one out, thanks.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



It's on the Hennig set I have, I REALLY like it too, it's the one where the Genius comes out too if I recall. One of Hogans best WWE matches as far as I'm concerned.


Cesaro/Cena really is as good as you all are making it out to be. I think I might still SLIGHTYLY prefer Bryan/Bray as the MOTY so far, but it's damn, damn, close. This is Cesaro's best non-NXT match yet I think, it even tops his gauntlet match with Bryan.


Yeah1997- You put HH97' and BOSJ over Smackdown 6/23/05 and Judgement Day? Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love that BOSJ match, more than a lot of people on here, and enough ink has already been spilled on the greatness that is HH 97'. But I think Eddie was so much better as an all around performer during that AMAZING 2002-2005 run. If he had continued the way he was going, without his body breaking down and then tragically passing away, and retired around 2011-2012, I'd honestly have to say he'd deserve a spot on the top of the mountain along with Flair as the best wrestler of all time. He was great in BOSJ, as was Benoit, he was really great in HH 97, as was Rey, but he was all time great in his best WWE matches.

If you ever get bored and feel like watching any of Eddie's "Big 4" career best matches, I'd love to see a write up on which match you think was truly his best and why.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

6/23/05 has been my #1 favourite match for years (I've watched it to the point where I could write hundreds of words on it without having watched it in months...totally serious), but yeah, I think the others are better. Maybe next time I watch all three I'll think that's the best. I definitely think it's Eddie's best performance, though. 

I think they all smoke Judgment Day. It's a great match but not a classic. Eddie/JBL smokes it too and I think Eddie/Big Show is just as good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

One of the reasons I can't quite enjoy Eddie's 02-05 run is his freakishly unnatural/overjuiced physique, despite some stellar matches. Seems strange to think that way, but w/e. We all know how it ended. The same feeling in my gut when I watch Benoit's post-04 stuff.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I hate Eddies first WWF run tbh, nothing so far that i've seen is good 

his WCW stuff great, but not quite to the 02-05 level


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Huh, could have sworn Yeah1993 had 6/23/05 as their best encounter. No mither either way. FWIW I'm in the camp that thinks 6/23 is their magnus opus. Tremendous chemistry as per usual, but it's Eddie's character performance and perfect development of the narrative that makes that much so great to me. Mysterio is obviously tremendous as the face, but there's about a million little things Eddie does throughout that I could point to as what I appreciate most in wrestling, and the fact they build this engrossing story on top of the flawless natural chemistry just cements it above HH '97. Don't get me wrong, HH '97 is tremendous in its own right and is their best in terms of excitement, sequences and overall fluidity, but Eddie's performance in the '05 match just makes me unable to rank HH '97 ahead of it.

I could easily listen to an argument for Benoit/Eddie BOSJ '96 being better than 6/23 though, heck I might even think that myself if I rewatched both back to back. Adore the natural progression from the opening to the middle to the end, the way they portray Benoit as the clear superior in the technical/mat exchanges, with Eddie having a rough few minutes before unleashing his offensive arsenal and explosive high flying to counter Benoit's grappling dominance, and the way they ground the middle and build seamlessly into the finishing stretch is how I wish juniors matches could be worked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm starting to think I haven't seen that BOSJ match because everyone praises it as being awesome and I don't remember anything about it. When I think of Eddie/Benoit from Japan my mind always ends up going to their 94 match with Eddie as Black Tiger, which I don't think much of at all.

But even if it IS awesome and potentially better than the SD 05 match it still wouldn't change my mind in the slightest on Eddie being better from 02-05 than before then. His 02-05 run is genuinely just GODLY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's the match that's mainly centered around the sleeper. Eddie is goddamn phenomenal in it but Benoit was was probably better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Definitely don't think I've seen it then. But I want to. Also wanna check out that highly acclaimed Regal Vs Benoit from Japan too.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Was Eddie a better athlete in the mid-90's compared to 02-05? Yes. Was he having BETTER MATCHES? For the most part I completely disagree.
> 
> Not high on much of his Japan work tbh.


Maybe it goes to what we like as fans. Eddie's work with Ohtani, Liger, Benoit, Malenko, and Sasuke is like a gold mine for me in NJPW (whose heavyweights always paled in comparison to AJPW at the time). His continued work in the States with Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Rey, Ultimo, and a variety of luchadores is better in the ring - and again, it's not really close. That moment, when he beats Liger in the Best of the Super Juniors III Final, and Chris and Dean are right there in the ring and hoist him on their shoulders? Goosebumps, I tell ya! Also, it's a great match. Have you seen the Eddie/Jericho v. Dean/Benoit from Nitro by chance?

He became more a expressive, heart-on-his-sleeve kind of guy. And that was excellent. But he couldn't hardly take flat bumps, had back and elbow surgeries, and a host of other injuries he'd sustained by that point (...and the physique). I mean, he was usually given more time, build, and generally treated better by the E, but his ability had diminished in the ring. Still had some great ones left, but not quite as often or (usually) as impressive imo. His character work and accumulated experience does balance it out in his best outings.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. Bryan/Christian was sweet. Good arm work, good selling, nicely paced, good finish. With a couple more minutes it would've been a match I'd consider listing. That said it was still very good, about the same level as Bryan/Cesaro from SD.

Really looking forward to Cena/Cesaro.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Definitely don't think I've seen it then. But I want to. Also wanna check out that highly acclaimed Regal Vs Benoit from Japan too.


Benoit/Eddie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM

Benoit/Regal '95 used to be on youtube but was taken down sometime ago, and to my recollection it's never been reuploaded since. Is it not on your Regal comp you have? If not, I assume a link is out there somewhere but aside from Ditch's place I wouldn't know where to look. I did recall it being great, but it's honestly been too long to really expand on any specifics.

Have you seen Hashimoto/Regal 4/16/95? Because that is incredible and maybe the most impressive Regal has ever looked. It's like a far better version of Regal/Sting GAB '96 (which I love) in terms of Regal being allowed to take the lead and really control the middle with such assurance. Hashimoto's comeback however is incredibly violent and really cements it as a classic defence, though I'll forever regard the Hase '94 match as the best IWGP title match I've seen.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh lord. Eddie vs Mysterio from Smackdown in 2005 demolishes the Halloween Havoc match. And the latter is next to perfect too.


That _is_ the SD match where they try to do the backflip DDT spot from HH, but botch it right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got all those matches on either Eddie or Regal comps so I'm good . Haven't seen the Haishomto match yet either, actually started watching it a while back but something happened and I had to go do something and never got back to it.

JustJoel, definitely agree that it really all comes down to what you like as a fan. A lot of those WCW matches you mentioned, while fun and filled with cool spots and moves and a fast pace, just don't do it for me as much as they seem to for you lol. I love his 02-05 run for how he would still be able to go with a fast pace, throw out some sick spots and whatnot AND really inject his character into the matches combined with some good old psychology/storytelling/other generic wrestling term for this lol.

But at least we can ALL agree on the fact that Eddie was top notch for the majority of his career anyway .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Definitely watch Hashimoto/Regal if you get chance. I can't recall who suffered it, but I want to say Regal busts Hashimoto's nose hardway with some stiff strikes, so in response Hashimoto absolutely murders him with overhand chops to the face as a receipt. I remember Hashimoto bleeding in some form, but it could easily be that the broken/bloodied nose comes at Regal's expense, but off hand I'm pretty sure it's Regal who inflicts it because I seem to recall some nifty and focused work by him on a bodypart.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

JustJoel said:


> in NJPW (whose heavyweights always paled in comparison to AJPW at the time)


I beg to differ. :suzuki


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tbf, it's no disservice to the New Japan heavies to say they were bettered in many aspects by their All Japan counterparts, but really even if I thought they were a bit below (in terms of absolute top tier greatness and consistency, especially in the early 90s with the rise of Misawa & Kawada, and Hansen), there's really not a fine margin between them and if anything New Japan had their own world class matches (WAR/New Japan feud, Hashimoto/Tenryu, Hashimoto/Hase, Liger/Sano, Hashimoto/Fujiwara). Like, All Japan > New Japan has always to me spoken more of the peak of AJPW, as New Japan had more than enough classics in their own right to arguably surpass many other promotions in normal circumstances.

Really, no matter who we argue is better, the reality is regardless of subjective opinion, we were blessed by some incredible main events and elite workers, with the likes of Michinoku Pro, RINGS and BattlARTS coming into the fore in the late 90s and elevating the output quality even further in addition to the likes of Kawada, Misawa, Hashimoto, Tenryu and co still producing some amazing performances.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: old list



So I've been watching a bunch of wrestling docs to put together a list from best to worst. Gonna be a while before I finish it, and when I do I'll likely turn it into a video. Decided to just post updates every now and then (after I watch a few docs, not every single time I watch 1). This is my current list, with some notes as to what I thought of them:

1.	The Last of McGuinness - The Nigel McGuinness Story (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

2.	CM Punk - The Best in the World (Tremendous. Detailed. Damn near perfect)

3.	The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of all Time (Exactly what you'd expect in a documentary for a guy WWE consider to be THE best ever)

4.	Jake Roberts - Pick Your Poison (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

5.	The Rise + Fall of ECW (Made a small time promotion seem like the biggest thing ever. Did what Heyman did for his wrestlers; accentuate the positives, hide the negatives)

6.	Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection (A great documentary worthy of the GOAT)

7.	For All Mankind - The Life & Career of Mick Foley (Great, but missed out on some really important things from his career that prevent the doc from being higher)

8.	The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA (Truly made the AWA seem spectacular, and did a wonderful job of highlighting the importance of the AWA to the wrestling world)

9.	Hard Knocks - The Chris Benoit Story (One of the first documentaries WWE did that REALLY highlighted the entire career of a wrestler. However being in the early stages of these kind of documentaries [the difference between 04+ docs to pre-04 docs is HUGE], they hadn't got it "down" to a science yet and missed out a lot)

10.	The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling (Great at showcasing WCCW and the talent, but I feel the Von Erich tragedies overshadowed a lot of other stuff, preventing the documentary from being one of the all time greats)

11.	Starrcade - The Essential Collection (Despite only being around an hour long, they did a wonderful job of making Starrcade look great. However it really lacks detail once they get into the Bischoff era WCW, ignoring the Hogan/Sting angle almost entirely and practically everything else afterwards)

12.	Triple H - Thy Kingdom Come (starts off really good, and then goes downhill. Personally I didn't mind the behind the scenes/Stephanie stuff... BUT it highlights that part of his life and career over almost everything he did from 200 onwards, which is when his career was actually considered important)

13.	You Think You Know Me - The Story of Edge (A solid documentary, but nothing about it stands out to me)

14.	The Rise & Fall of WCW (decent but very, very disappointing given the length of it. So much is missed out or not talked about in detail. ECW gets 3 hours and this gets 2?)

15.	Ricky Steamboat - The Life Story of the Dragon (VERY disappointing doc. 1 hour 10 minutes in total, and focuses on about 4 of his feuds and that's about it)

16.	Attitude Era (An hour long and extremely disappointing. Like the Steamboat doc, they only really focus on a small handful of feuds, and they only really go for the "major" ones that have been covered MULTIPLE times in other docs)

Currently watching the Heroes of World Class: The story of the Von Erich's and the Rise and Fall of World Class Championship Wrestling (fuck me at the length of the title lol) documentary.



Watched some more documentaries, and this is my updated list compared to the previous version of said list:



Spoiler: new list



1.	The Last of McGuinness - The Nigel McGuinness Story (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

2.	CM Punk - The Best in the World (Tremendous. Detailed. Damn near perfect)

3.	The Bottom Line on the Most Popular Superstar of all Time (Exactly what you'd expect in a documentary for a guy WWE consider to be THE best ever)

4.	Jake Roberts - Pick Your Poison (Powerful, emotional, incredible)

5.	The Rise + Fall of ECW (Made a small time promotion seem like the biggest thing ever. Did what Heyman did for his wrestlers; accentuate the positives, hide the negatives)

6.	Ric Flair - The Definitive Collection (A great documentary worthy of the GOAT)

7.	For All Mankind - The Life & Career of Mick Foley (Great, but missed out on some really important things from his career that prevent the doc from being higher)

8.	The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling (Great at showcasing WCCW and the talent, but I feel the Von Erich tragedies overshadowed a lot of other stuff, preventing the documentary from being one of the all time greats) & Heroes of World Class: The story of the Von Erich's and the Rise and Fall of World Class Championship Wrestling (Again, a great showcase for WCCW and the talent, and while the Von Erich stuff IS the major part, at least the title of the doc tells you that. Made before WWE bought the footage, so it is great to see an independent doc use proper footage which puts it ahead of many other Indy docs. Goes into more detail on certain things and less on others compared to WWE, which is why these two are tied for me. Either on their own is good, together they are great and fill in gaps that they each have)

9.	The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA (Truly made the AWA seem spectacular, and did a wonderful job of highlighting the importance of the AWA to the wrestling world)

10.	Shawn Michaels - Heartbreak & Triumph (Really good, but let down slightly by missing out numerous big feuds from his comeback run)

11.	Hard Knocks - The Chris Benoit Story (One of the first documentaries WWE did that REALLY highlighted the entire career of a wrestler. However being in the early stages of these kind of documentaries [the difference between 04+ docs to pre-04 docs is HUGE], they hadn't got it "down" to a science yet and missed out a lot)

12.	The History of the World Heavyweight Championship (does a wonderful job detailing the history of the belt, though drops off towards the end by going through 1990-current in about 10 minutes)

13.	Starrcade - The Essential Collection (Despite only being around an hour long, they did a wonderful job of making Starrcade look great. However it really lacks detail once they get into the Bischoff era WCW, ignoring the Hogan/Sting angle almost entirely and practically everything else afterwards)

14.	Brian Pillman - Loose Cannon (great documentary that goes into detail on just about everything you'd expect. Would be higher on the list BUT Pillman's career wasn't the longest or most noteworthy, making the documentary a weird mix of highlighting Steve Austin as his tag partner and his Loose Cannon character rather than JUST concentrating on him)

15.	Triple H - Thy Kingdom Come (starts off really good, and then goes downhill. Personally I didn't mind the behind the scenes/Stephanie stuff... BUT it highlights that part of his life and career over almost everything he did from 200 onwards, which is when his career was actually considered important)

16.	You Think You Know Me - The Story of Edge (A solid documentary, but nothing about it stands out to me)

17.	The Rise & Fall of WCW (decent but very, very disappointing given the length of it. So much is missed out or not talked about in detail. ECW gets 3 hours and this gets 2?)

18.	Ricky Steamboat - The Life Story of the Dragon (VERY disappointing doc. 1 hour 10 minutes in total, and focuses on about 4 of his feuds and that's about it)

19.	The Life & Times of Mr Perfect (short and skips almost everything bar a few key moments from his career)

20.	Attitude Era (An hour long and extremely disappointing. Like the Steamboat doc, they only really focus on a small handful of feuds, and they only really go for the "major" ones that have been covered MULTIPLE times in other docs)

21.	Cheating Death, Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story (43 minutes documentary for EDDIE GUERRERO? Released the same year as the Benoit DVD which is worlds above this in every aspect. Spends far too much time on his personal issues and skips 99% of his wrestling career. Most disappointing documentary ever)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Cesaro was superb. I don't think I need to say anything more than that. Fantastic match. Slightly behind Bryan/Wyatt for MOTY imo.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yep, Cena/Cesaro ruled. Cesaro is GODLY.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan got off to a great start this year with the Wyatt match at the Rumble and Orton match on Raw but Cesaro has overtaken him in recent weeks. Sunday's EC has so much potential. You already know Cesaro's going to do some crazy shit in there. Hopefully they have him start the match or at least come in at number 3 so he can give us an amazing Chamber performance like we've seen from Mysterio and McIntyre in the past. 

The List so far:

1. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
2. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
3. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
4. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
5. Cesaro v Randy Orton - SmackDown (2/14/14)

February has been off the chains so far and I'm confident Elimination Chamber has more goodness in store for us.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Everyone should listen the Austin podcast with Cena

I'm halfway through and their talking about the rumble match, really cool stuff


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Ryback would make the rounds of my top five. The rest seem to be set w/what complies yours. Didn't think Cesaro vs Orton was anything past solid, but the moment of Cesaro _(who still has a first name in my world)_ winning basically puts it over the top of making it memorable. Plus he was good in it, yada yada.

There still are about three Shield tags to mention too. The year started slow, but it's picked back up to the status quo of 2013. Not excited for the PPV outside of the six man tag tho. I don't trust the company. Hasn't been a "good" PPV since August. Plenty of Chamber matches have looked good on paper only to be nothing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Sheamus vs Ryback would make the rounds of my top five. The rest seem to be set w/what complies yours. Didn't think Cesaro vs Orton was anything past solid, but the moment of Cesaro _(who still has a first name in my world)_ winning basically puts it over the top of making it memorable. Plus he was good in it, yada yada.
> 
> There still are about three Shield tags to mention too. The year started slow, but it's picked back up to the status quo of 2013. Not excited for the PPV outside of the six man tag tho. I don't trust the company. Hasn't been a "good" PPV since August. Plenty of Chamber matches have looked good on paper only to be nothing.


Orton actually impressed me quite a bit in the Cesaro match.

I can't remember a Chamber match as stacked as this one. Plus there's a good chance Bryan will start the match to keep up the theme of The Authority trying to hold him down and that's a positive as far as match quality is concerned.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I think the chamber match has a chance to beat the SVS 02 one and become the second best chamber ever. 

If the stars align that night it could be better or just as good as NYR 05, which would be :mark:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> JustJoel, definitely agree that it really all comes down to what you like as a fan. A lot of those WCW matches you mentioned, while fun and filled with cool spots and moves and a fast pace, just don't do it for me as much as they seem to for you lol. I love his 02-05 run for how he would still be able to go with a fast pace, throw out some sick spots and whatnot AND really inject his character into the matches combined with some good old psychology/storytelling/other generic wrestling term for this.


I think a lot of the "cruiser" style gets bashed unnecessarily for a lack of psychology and storytelling. Often, it's the inclusion of bravado and one-upsmanship that gets spiced into heel/face dynamic we all know and love to create something different. I wouldn't call it moves and spots, but rather athletic prowess, physicality, and technical skill. It always has an eye on the spectacular, but is only really done right when the details are tended to as much as the high spots. There's good and bad executions of it, like any other (hence, the spotfest and its counterpart, the borefest).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Top 5

Cesaro/Cena
Orton/Bryan raw
Christian/Bryan
Sheamus/ryback
bryan/wyatt


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

On an unrelated topic, I would pay money for that Cena Lariat in gif form - let out a "Gwah!" watching last night. The sequence from STFU to Giant Swing was peachy as well. Top notch stuff. Cena reminds me of Tanahashi so much it's ridiculous. Both have a cheesy gimmick and who, at one point in their career, didn't have the wrestling chops to deserve their booking, but now have the maturity and experience to match a lot of the current crop of great ring talents. #2 WWE MOTY, with Bryan/Wyatt _just_ edging it out. ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> 6/23/05 has been my #1 favourite match for years (I've watched it to the point where I could write hundreds of words on it without having watched it in months...totally serious), but yeah, I think the others are better. Maybe next time I watch all three I'll think that's the best. I definitely think it's Eddie's best performance, though.
> 
> I think they all smoke Judgment Day. It's a great match but not a classic. Eddie/JBL smokes it too and I think Eddie/Big Show is just as good.



Sorry man I should have been more clear, the Judgement Day I was referring to was Eddie/JBL, not Eddie/Rey. JD 2005 IS a great match, but it doesn't come close to the magic of the Smackdown encounter. Judgement Day 2004 vs JBL is, in my humble opinion, Eddies best match and one of the 5 greatest matches in WWE history. If you gave me a choice between Eddie Guerrero as a heel and Eddie as a face, I'd choose heel every time without even thinking twice about it. That's what makes that JBL match so special, you can look far and wide and with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 matches, I don't think anyone has ever turned in a better underdog baby face performance than Eddie did that night. Sure the blood undeniably added to the drama, especially if you know the backstory and realize he legit almost bled to death, but he honestly could have not bled at all and it wouldn't take anything away from how great he was that night. The way he timed his come backs was just perfection, the brawling and desperation he showed is what everyone should strive for. And that final, last hurrah, Latino heat come back he has in the end, shaking off JBLs punches, covered from head to toe in his own blood, and doing that little salsa shimmy dance before firing up some massive right hands gives my goosebumps goosebumps.

So yea, if I was rating Eddie's top 5 matches, Judgement Day vs JBL would come first:

1. Vs JBL Judgement Day 2004
2. Vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 6/23/05
3. Vs Rey Mysterio Halloween Havoc 1997
4. Vs Benoit Best of Super Juniors 1996
5. Vs Brock Lesnar No Way Out 2004


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love the JD 04 match but I really don't think it would've been half as epic had it not been for that brutal bladejob. A slightly bloody Eddie doing the dance is just not the same as the bloody canvas with Eddie's face almost unrecognizable doing the same, though... that's something else.

Match quality this month has been great. Cesaro, Bryan and Orton have been the MVPs so far. Giving Cena credit too but he hasn't really done much of note until after the Rumble.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JustJoel said:


> That _is_ the SD match where they try to do the backflip DDT spot from HH, but botch it right?


I only remember that happening in WCW. Maybe 3/18/04?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan and Cesaro are clearly above everyone else this year thus far imo. Cena and Orton have done well and would probably be 3 and 4 respectively, and 5 would probably be... uh... Sheamus? I guess, his match with Ryback was really good, and the match with Orton was pretty good as well. Besides him, can't really say. Sandow had one great match against Cena that I'd put comfortably above any Sheamus match this year, but outside of that hasn't done anything noteworthy (hasn't been given a chance since, but that's a whole other story). Rollins is great but outside of a 6-man tag, he hasn't gotten any opportunity to strut his stuff either. Punk didn't have anything good either before he left this year. So yeah, Sheamus would probably be #5.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

JustJoel said:


> On an unrelated topic, I would pay money for that Cena Lariat in gif form - let out a "Gwah!" watching last night. The sequence from STFU to Giant Swing was peachy as well. Top notch stuff. Cena reminds me of Tanahashi so much it's ridiculous. Both have a cheesy gimmick and who, at one point in their career, didn't have the wrestling chops to deserve their booking, but now have the maturity and experience to match a lot of the current crop of great ring talents. #2 WWE MOTY, with Bryan/Wyatt _just_ edging it out. ****












that is all


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Been saying since late June I thought Tony Cesaro was the best wrestler in the company. Not a slight to bryan at all, more of a preference of styles and I prefer Cesaro's much more


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They should really capitalize on Cesaro's momentum and let him be in the final three of the Chamber. I'm assuming Orton beats Bryan via Authority shenanigans to retain so that accounts for the final two in my mind. My gut feeling says it will come down to Orton, Bryan and Cena unfortunately.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I only remember that happening in WCW. Maybe 3/18/04?


Yes! That's the one @ the 13 minute mark. The '05 was the one that had Rey's zipper contrast to his pants:lol. That was good; Eddie's bruise is sick. For about half of it though, I almost felt any two above-average ring workers could have had that match, whereas there's moments in the HH match that nobody's been able to do since, including Eddie and Rey themselves. Sure, the SD match was a bit longer, but the HH is a steamroller. I'm struggling to think of a better sub-15 minute match. And Eddie is a better heel in it. And it has the proper stip for their feud (mask v. Title). I don't want to see Rey hit clotheslines and a back body drop on his comeback. Anybody can do that. My heart sank when he hits the springboard mosh pit (or whatever it's called). Should've been a west coast pop- damn those knees!:cussin: 

Havoc makes it clear that no flyer is on Rey's level at the time. He takes massive punishment (Eddie was stiffer back then) and keeps fighting using unique offense and predicaments. Everything is at full speed - the powerbomb, the tree of woe biff, the mask tearing. It's what makes it so watchable on dozens of repeats. It's ***** all day in my book and just edges out Brock for my favorite Eddie match all-time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Been saying since late June I thought Tony Cesaro was the best wrestler in the company. Not a slight to bryan at all, more of a preference of styles and I prefer Cesaro's much more


Cesaro's incredible. I still have Bryan over him though, ever so slightly. There's really not much to choose between them. 1a and 1b for sure.

Current top 5 workers for me (not this year or anything, just their general ability):

1. Bryan
2. Cesaro
3. Sheamus
4. Goldust
5. Christian

Wasn't too sure about Christian at 5 but I thought about it and there wasn't anybody else I'd want there over him. 

Top 5 promo guys:

1. Wyatt
2. Zeb
3. Ambrose
4. Cena
5. ?????

Can't even think of a 5th guy. Are things that bad right now? I must be blanking on a couple dudes. I know Sandow's a good talker but I've never cared for any of his stuff so didn't want to put him. Christian can cut a promo but they barely ever let him. Oh right, forgot about Henry and Show. I'll say Henry.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cleavage said:


> that is all


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Cesaro's incredible. I still have Bryan over him though, ever so slightly. There's really not much to choose between them. 1a and 1b for sure.
> 
> Current top 5 workers for me (not this year or anything, just their general ability):
> 
> ...


Yea no slight on Bryan at all, just comes down to preference

ahh top 5 currently ? lets see

Cesaro
Bryan
Sheamus
Christian
Brock 
Cena/Show


Talkers ?

Heyman
Zeb
Ambrose
HHH
Cena 
Wyatt ? (lukewarm on this)

I'm alike you too, but I think its more of a wwe not giving ppl a chance too speak and when speaking say their own stuff. If allowed I's put Christian and Ziggler


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RIP Viscera. Fitting that before he left us, we spoke of his underappreciated excellence.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RIP Big Homie. You were one of my FATTIES and I'll never forget the times when you showed what being a FATTY heel was all about ALA Backlash 2005.

Maybe I'll watch a whole bunch of his shit and do a career retrospective. MAYBE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Yea no slight on Bryan at all, just comes down to preference
> 
> ahh top 5 currently ? lets see
> 
> ...


How did I manage to forget Heyman. He's #1.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> RIP Viscera. Fitting that before he left us, we spoke of his underappreciated excellence.


Just got the text. 

Seems like I should keep the train of watching his matches atm going.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

RIP Bid Daddy V 


My Top 5 workers would be :
Bryan
Cesaro
Zayn
Rollins
Tyson Kidd


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RIP Viscera 

Really glad i just re-watched his match with Kane at Backlash.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

The Shield/Wyatt segment on RAW was so amazing. That's how you hype a fucking match. Moment Bray stepped in the ring was :mark: moment Reigns stepped to him was :mark: :mark: and then the moment Rollins and Ambrose walked up to back him up was :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Bubz said:


> The Shield/Wyatt segment on RAW was so amazing. That's how you hype a fucking match. Moment Bray stepped in the ring was :mark: moment Reigns stepped to him was :mark: :mark: and then the moment Rollins and Ambrose walked up to back him up was :mark: :mark: :mark:


It's like The Nexus vs Team WWE vibe :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bubz said:


> The Shield/Wyatt segment on RAW was so amazing. That's how you hype a fucking match. Moment Bray stepped in the ring was :mark: moment Reigns stepped to him was :mark: :mark: and then the moment Rollins and Ambrose walked up to back him up was :mark: :mark: :mark:


Yeah dude. Great segment. Bray's promo was awesome as usual. Did you watch the end of the show?


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Is there a link to this Benoit/Eddie match from 96 that's been pimped the past couple days?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

etrbaby said:


> RIP Bid Daddy V
> 
> 
> My Top 5 workers would be :
> ...


Is that just in general or at this very moment in time? If its the latter, id love to hear your reasoning because he's done a grand total of diddly squat over the past few months bar the Superstars match w/ Swagger which was decent. Hell even if its just your favourite in general I dont understand and never will, a top five company worker is ridiculously high praise especially when the roster is as stacked as it is now. Honestly he'd struggle to make my top 20 maybe morem :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Been saying for months that Cena should utilise more power based offence to show off his freakish strength more, with the lariat being a move he really should use more often. I remember he threw an absolutely filthy one vs Rock at Mania '28, and I'm sure there's been further instances where he's thrown it out in matches and it's looked devastating.



jessyj2009 said:


> Is there a link to this Benoit/Eddie match from 96 that's been pimped the past couple days?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching string stampede 1997


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Flux said:


> Is that just in general or at this very moment in time? If its the latter, id love to hear your reasoning because he's done a grand total of diddly squat over the past few months bar the Superstars match w/ Swagger which was decent. Hell even if its just your favourite in general I dont understand and never will, a top five company worker is ridiculously high praise especially when the roster is as stacked as it is now. Honestly he'd struggle to make my top 20 maybe morem :lol


In General  Punk was the definitive 5th in my opinion, but now Well that 5th spot could go to Christian, Tyson, Ziggler, Swagger or Del Rio .. But I went with Tyson because he best combines the technical/high-flying style that I love 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RIP Viscera. Just watched his beat the clock match with Benoit from RAW as a tribute. Fun way to spend a few minutes. Viscera's athleticism for a man's his size is impressive with that spinning wheel kick and the great transition into the samoan drop. :mark: at that German suplex from Benoit and that crossface was great, putting over the monster that Viscera was by staying in it for a while but ultimately tapping in the end as that's how lethal of a maneuver it was that could make anyone tap regardless of size.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Flair/Eddie (Hog Wild '96) ***1/4

Good US title match, but they could've done more, much more.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Flair/Eddie (Hog Wild '96) ***1/4
> 
> Good US title match, but they could've done more, much more.


It was fun solely for the antics, but I agree it could have been better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I love the JD 04 match but I really don't think it would've been half as epic had it not been for that brutal bladejob. A slightly bloody Eddie doing the dance is just not the same as the bloody canvas with Eddie's face almost unrecognizable doing the same, though... that's something else.
> 
> Match quality this month has been great. Cesaro, Bryan and Orton have been the MVPs so far. Giving Cena credit too but he hasn't really done much of note until after the Rumble.



Oh you're right, the ridiculous amount of blood definitely helped that match, I was just saying Eddie's performance in that match would have still been all time great without the blood, but the match itself would probably not be viewed as highly.

I really hope the backstage rumors are true, that Vince finally realizes what he has in Cesaro and decides to go with him. My personal fear for Cesaro and Reigns is, if they get rocket boosters strapped to their asses and get broken off from their teams and turn face, they stand a good chance in getting lost in the shuffle. Cena is still unequestionably the top face, Bryan is a solid #2, and Batista is #3. Outside of Orton, there is a serious lack of top heels. Part of me thinks Reigns and Cesaro would be best off staying heel and turning much later down the line when it feels more organic. That way Orton can work Batista and Cesaro and Reigns can work with Bryan, Cena, Sheamus, etc.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah dude. Great segment. Bray's promo was awesome as usual. Did you watch the end of the show?


Yeah I saw the end, it was great too. A good way to hype both main event matches at the same time. Wyatt's, Bray more specifically, is fucking awesome recently.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Missed this, but here are my...

Top 5 Workers (general ability):

1) Bryan
2) Cesaro
3) Sheamus
4) Rollins
5) Christian

Top 5 on Mic:

1) Heyman
2) Zeb
3) Sandow
4) Ambrose
5) Wyatt

Also, RIP Big Daddy V.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Best workers in the company (as of right this minute):

1. Bryan (they have watered down his move set recently but that doesn't change the fact he's still the bitw)
2. Cesaro 
3. Seth Rollins
4. Christian
5. Sheamus

If we count minis, dorado would have to be up there right?


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Top-5 workers today in WWE:

1. Bryan 
2. Cesaro
3. Zayn
4. Rollins
5. Christian.

Dat ROH alumni dominating the list :bryan3:cesaro:zayn:rollins


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got ECW ONS 05. That completes my WWE 05 PPV collection off. And now to put it on my shelve and avoid the fuck out of the event for as long as possible .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> Just got ECW ONS 05. That completes my WWE 05 PPV collection off. And now to put it on my shelve and avoid the fuck out of the event for as long as possible .


What's the point of buying it if you're just gonna bury it deep in your large collection? 

Also RIP Viscera, kinda weird we talked about him just a few days ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have all the other 05 PPV's, felt wrong to have ONE missing .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> I have all the other 05 PPV's, felt wrong to have ONE missing .



Do DVDs/Blu Rays from the US play in England/other countries? 

What are the odds that we get a screw finish at EC with both Orton and Bryan winning (ie a double pin, or Orton taps while pinning Bryan) causing the title to be held in abeyance again and a Triple Threat for the WWE WHC at Mania?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King Cal said:


> I have all the other 05 PPV's, felt wrong to have ONE missing .


Still a waste of money if you wont use it. 



Cactus Jack said:


> What are the odds that we get a screw finish at EC with both Orton and Bryan winning (ie a double pin, or Orton taps while pinning Bryan) causing the title to be held in abeyance again and a Triple Threat for the WWE WHC at Mania?


I doubt it. Kane/HHH will probably distract Bryan or something causing Orton to retain. Bryan is getting Punk's storyline for Mania and good, because it should've been Bryan/HHH from the get go. If he's in the title match (which I wont be against because it gives the match a bigger chance to succeed), he'll lose and the fans will leave unhappy.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Cactus Jack said:


> Do DVDs/Blu Rays from the US play in England/other countries?


No. They are different Region-Codes.

But you can change/set the Region on your computer (you can only change it 5 times before it locks itself, so be careful on that). That's the way I watch Region 1 DVDs anyways.

...Or you can buy a Region-Free DVD player, l0l.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Still a waste of money if you wont use it.


I'll eventually watch and ramble about it when I get to 05 PPV's (I should continue with that... got 1 PPV from 03 done so far lol) .

Not as bad as me buying the 2013 RR on Bluray. Already rambled about it, got the show downloaded on my PC (mainly in case I ever want to use the footage for a video)... so I have ZERO intentions of even taking the wrapping off it . Got it ONLY for my collection as I already own every other RR event :lmao.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TOP FIVE WORKERS & MIC WORKERS RIGHT NOW (W/out Punk, wrestlers only as Heyman would be #1. HHH doesn't count.)

Workers

1) Brock Lesnar
2) CESARO
3) Daniel Bryan
4) John Cena
5) Sheamus/Seth Rollins (Yeah, I cheated)

MIC Workers

1) Bray Wyatt
2) TITUS
3) John Cena
4) Dean Ambrose
5) Damien Sandow

The workers list was MUCH harder than the mic workers list, as I just realized how incompetent most of the WWE roster is when it comes to cutting a decent promo :lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> TOP FIVE WORKERS & MIC WORKERS RIGHT NOW (W/out Punk, wrestlers only as Heyman would be #1. HHH doesn't count.)
> 
> Workers
> 
> ...



Damn I didn't even think of BROCK, he would be my #1 too if I had thought of it. Danielson has had a longer career and has had some absolutely amazing matches, but it just enjoy watching Brock so much more. I wouldn't say Brock is flat out better than Danielson, I just enjoy him infinitely more in the ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK is just flat out better than anybody ever when he's actually working for the company, TBF .

He's in this weird class of his own where I'm not sure if he can be considered better or worse than the "Big Three".


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm 132% (approximately) confident that once called up, Zayn will be in almost everybody's top five, if he's given the chance of course. I don't see any way he won't be, he's too damn good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux is a BINO fan :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Can't express my anticipation for Cesaro/Zayn IV enough. If they saddle Zayn with some shit gimmick and don't give his matches time when he gets called up, then I swear :kobe2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

SKINS said:


> Flux is a BINO fan :mark:


"Never kiss in public but at home i am affectionate. fucking bitches left and right my dick is ambidextrous" :moyes1

BINO.

On topic: After this episode of Malcolm In The Middle, I'm going to continue my WCW PPV 1997 voyage and watch Slamboree, I was instantly put off by the project after I watched Souled Out (which is one of the worst PPVs I've ever seen), so it's been a while, but I'm in the mood for some dubya see dubya.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd probably have zayn in my top 5 once h is called back, Sono keeps pressuring me to watch this NXT ppv so I'll check it out, heard its Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 II :mark;

I actually watched rey/eddie HH 97 last night, yea I'm still gonna put it over the 6/05 sd match slightly

ALso checked out a decent ryback/cesaro match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Make you get the Network so you can see it, Skins. 

I've got some interest Dallas/Neville in the ladder match, and there's supposed to be a bunch of legends like Hunter, the Outlaws, Nash. Basically the KLIQ. Should be fun.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Hopefully the NXT supershow ends the recent run of "harmless at best" shows that have been on the past couple of months and goes back to what made it the best wrestling show on telly in the first place: a variety of characters with a direction and development, rather than just one little mini feud and the remainder consisting of showcase matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> "Never kiss in public but at home i am affectionate. fucking bitches left and right my dick is ambidextrous" :moyes1
> 
> BINO.
> 
> On topic: After this episode of Malcolm In The Middle, I'm going to continue my WCW PPV 1997 voyage and watch Slamboree, I was instantly put off by the project after I watched Souled Out (which is one of the worst PPVs I've ever seen), so it's been a while, but I'm in the mood for some dubya see dubya.



If you like Bino you should get on some Action Bronson, Blue Chips I & II are classics.

Isn't that Slamboree the one with the Benoit/Finlay match? Or was that 1998? Either way that match is groovy.

If they really are gonna go with HHH/Bryan at Mania, which I guess they should considering there aren't any better options ATM, how do you think they are gonna build to it? Does Triple H screw Bryan in the chamber? Say he comes down and slips a sledge hammer through the chain to Orton allowing him to take Bryan out? Or maybe he forces a ref to unlock it and just pedigrees him. I'm just not really happy with how this Mania is shaping up, I'll have the network so obviously I'll watch it but if they go with Orton/Batista, Triple H/Bryan, Lesnar/Taker, and then a Shield Triple threat or something, it'll be an "OK" Mania at best. They will have to let Bryan/Trips go out before Orton/Batista and have Bryan go over or else there might be a full scale riot.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I didn't even mean Slamboree, I meant Superbrawl. God dammnit. :side:

edit: But to answer your question, that Finlay/Benoit match is from 98. Slamboree 97 has the Meng/Benoit match :ass


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Am I the only one more excited for the post-EC RAw and NXT Arrival than for the predicted WM?


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> If they really are gonna go with HHH/Bryan at Mania, which I guess they should considering there aren't any better options ATM, how do you think they are gonna build to it? Does Triple H screw Bryan in the chamber? Say he comes down and slips a sledge hammer through the chain to Orton allowing him to take Bryan out? Or maybe he forces a ref to unlock it and just pedigrees him. I'm just not really happy with how this Mania is shaping up, I'll have the network so obviously I'll watch it but if they go with Orton/Batista, Triple H/Bryan, Lesnar/Taker, and then a Shield Triple threat or something, it'll be an "OK" Mania at best. They will have to let Bryan/Trips go out before Orton/Batista and have Bryan go over or else there might be a full scale riot.


Basically Bryan get's screwed over a la Goldberg at Summerslam 2003 EC at EC 2014. HHH and Kane throw in a Sledgehammer or Chair and Orton uses it to win. HHH comes in and beats down on a tired Bryan ( have him be number 1 in EC match) have Batista come in for the save ( we all know it will happen anyway fpalm), From then on in have HHH screw Bryan over by putting him matches that he has no chance of winning and anytime Bryan get's close to HHH, Kane beats him down. Then have Bryan say if he beats Kane in the Main Event on Raw he wants HHH at WM30 and if he beats him he wants a Title shot somewhere in the future. Bryan beats Kane on that Raw even though Orton and the Shield ( good time for Reign's to turn face in this part)come out and try to screw Bryan over. HHH stands at the top. of the ramp and cuts a heel promo telling Bryan he stands no chance that he's got his match. Have HHH beat Bryan down a week and two before WM30 to show the odds stacked agaisn't Bryan,

I see it going either two ways at WM 30...

1. HHH tells Bryan he will face him only one time at WM30, No DQ and if Bryan wins he get a Title Shot anytime he wants. HHH heels it up with Kane and Vince and Steph trying to screw Bryan over during the match, but Bryan wins by making HHH tap out or the running knee but it's got to be clean.

or

2. HHH beats Bryan at WM30, with ott amounts of cheating that doesn't have the crowd shit on the show. HHH and Bryan face each other in the Cage match at ER and Bryan gets his win back and gets a title shot.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Doesn't Bryan/HHH has enough build-up already? The fire of their feud is already burning, they just need to add more wood to sustain it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

hardyorton said:


> Basically Bryan get's screwed over a la Goldberg at Summerslam 2003 EC at EC 2014. HHH and Kane throw in a Sledgehammer or Chair and Orton uses it to win. HHH comes in and beats down on a tired Bryan ( have him be number 1 in EC match) have Batista come in for the save ( we all know it will happen anyway fpalm), From then on in have HHH screw Bryan over by putting him matches that he has no chance of winning and anytime Bryan get's close to HHH, Kane beats him down. Then have Bryan say if he beats Kane in the Main Event on Raw he wants HHH at WM30 and if he beats him he wants a Title shot somewhere in the future. Bryan beats Kane on that Raw even though Orton and the Shield ( good time for Reign's to turn face in this part)come out and try to screw Bryan over. HHH stands at the top. of the ramp and cuts a heel promo telling Bryan he stands no chance that he's got his match. Have HHH beat Bryan down a week and two before WM30 to show the odds stacked agaisn't Bryan,
> 
> I see it going either two ways at WM 30...
> 
> ...




For a match involving a guy I have absolutely ZERO desire to see wrestle in this day and age (coughTRIPLEHcough) that doesn't sound half bad. I could easily see Trips just going over Bryan with a minimal amount of cheating, pisssing off all the fans because he thinks it'll get him "nuclear heat", then sending Bryan back to the bottom of the pile and focusing on the Batista/Orton rivalry. When it comes to Hunters ego, you can never ever overestimate him.


Flux- Oh yea I knew that Slamboree had an excellent match. That Benoit/MENG Death Match might be even better than Finlay/Benoit :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was just in a thread discussing WWE.com posting another article about Sting. I'm actually getting so scared that the WWE might book Sting vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania (if he does sign). How anybody wants to see Sting wrestle in the biggest match on the card (because lets face it, the Streak match always is + the strange fascination between Sting vs. Taker) is beyond me. Will probably be the worst streak match since Big Bossman in 99. Eurghhhh. The annoyance is even greater considering all of the possibilities w/ the current roster as well. I guess I'll never understand the logic behind the fans that want this match - "Booo, fuck Batista coming back booo" "Yay, hooray for a more washed up, more out of shape _{than Batista}_ Sting coming in and taking up a quarter of the show in a dream match that's fifteen years too late + denying us of another Undertaker classic all in the name of a man who half of the WWE audience won't even know or care about".


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

yeah, screw Taker-Sting.. maybe 13 years ago..


----------



## ABrown (Jan 30, 2007)

Flux said:


> I was just in a thread discussing WWE.com posting another article about Sting. I'm actually getting so scared that the WWE might book Sting vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania (if he does sign). How anybody wants to see Sting wrestle in the biggest match on the card (because lets face it, the Streak match always is + the strange fascination between Sting vs. Taker) is beyond me. Will probably be the worst streak match since Big Bossman in 99. Eurghhhh. The annoyance is even greater considering all of the possibilities w/ the current roster as well. I guess I'll never understand the logic behind the fans that want this match - "Booo, fuck Batista coming back booo" "Yay, hooray for a more washed up, more out of shape _{than Batista}_ Sting coming in and taking up a quarter of the show in a dream match that's fifteen years too late + denying us of another Undertaker classic all in the name of a man who half of the WWE audience won't even know or care about".


I haven't loved a post like this in a while :clap


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> I was just in a thread discussing WWE.com posting another article about Sting. I'm actually getting so scared that the WWE might book Sting vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania (if he does sign). How anybody wants to see Sting wrestle in the biggest match on the card (because lets face it, the Streak match always is + the strange fascination between Sting vs. Taker) is beyond me. Will probably be the worst streak match since Big Bossman in 99. Eurghhhh. The annoyance is even greater considering all of the possibilities w/ the current roster as well. I guess I'll never understand the logic behind the fans that want this match - "Booo, fuck Batista coming back booo" "Yay, hooray for a more washed up, more out of shape _{than Batista}_ Sting coming in and taking up a quarter of the show in a dream match that's fifteen years too late + denying us of another Undertaker classic all in the name of a man who half of the WWE audience won't even know or care about".




Jesus Christ brother, preach. Couldn't agree more. Would honestly rather see about 10 different guys from the current roster challenge the Streak over Sting. I'd rather they have someone like Jericho, who has ZERO shot of presenting a realistic challenge, get a Streak match than someone like Sting. Atleast Jericho would give us some kick ass promos and around a **** match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sting is not going to be at Mania. IF he does sign, he'll most probably appear after WM. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Jesus Christ brother, preach. Couldn't agree more. Would honestly rather see about 10 different guys from the current roster challenge the Streak over Sting. I'd rather they have someone like Jericho, who has ZERO shot of presenting a realistic challenge, get a Streak match than someone like Sting. Atleast Jericho would give us some kick ass promos and around a **** match.


Oh man Jericho vs. Taker would be so great and it would be a great way for Chris Jericho to finally retire for real, if he wants to. Book it WWE!


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Best workers in the company (as of right this minute):
> 
> 1. Bryan (they have watered down his move set recently but that doesn't change the fact he's still the bitw)
> 2. Cesaro
> ...


Well you had Bryan on your list, didn't you? :HHH2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Emotion Blur said:


> Well you had Bryan on your list, didn't you? :HHH2


:lmao

You win.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> Flair/Eddie (Hog Wild '96) ***1/4
> 
> Good US title match, but they could've done more, much more.


They have a much better match on the 5/20/96 Nitro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm a pretty big fan of their Road Wild 1996 match. It's not up to par w/their Nitro match, however, it's still really good. More about the tactics of both shining through on the PPV contest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

It's too bad the never locked up in WWE in 2005. Vicious heel Eddie vs Under dog Old Man Flair would have been absolutely glorious


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only in a perfect world.

Flair was still totally awesome in 2005. Instead of working double magic w/Eddie, he got to carry Angle to a legit great match in June. Or late May. One of those dates.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Only in a perfect world.
> 
> Flair was still totally awesome in 2005. Instead of working double magic w/Eddie, he got to carry Angle to a legit great match in June. Or late May. One of those dates.


That's the one that's around 8-10 minutes long on Raw right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The match that went under said duration was in December. The June match went about 13-14 w/o a commercial.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> They have a much better match on the 5/20/96 Nitro.


Now I see they had a Nitro match in Dec. 1995, and the KOTR 2002 one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The match that went under said duration was in December. The June match went about 13-14 w/o a commercial.



Yea I was gonna say, the match I saw was alright but I wouldn't call it great or all that good really. I'll have to find the one you mentioned.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)




----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Going to rewatch bryan/wyatt in a few, give it a 4th chance, I probably will still have cesaro/cena ; orton/bryan and christian/bryan over it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just an FYI, my 04 project is NOT done. I'm just taking a break until I get the network(probably the day it comes out) and can watch my shows on my TV. 

That and I am pretty busy ATM, but not too busy to watch a wrasslin DVD tonight, thinking about rewatching a 05 show, but maybe not because I just watched them all. IDK, I'll probably end up just watching Netflix since I cant be arsed to go upstairs and pick a DVD atm :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Going to rewatch bryan/wyatt in a few, give it a 4th chance, I probably will still have cesaro/cena ; orton/bryan and christian/bryan over it


If you don't think it's great after 3 watches I'm not sure why that would change on a 4th.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea probably will skip it, just put True Detectives on instead


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


>



Cody I owe you big time for that, how AWESOME is that match? More specifically, how AWESOME is Old Man Flair? He positively carried that thing. For me, how a match gets started is almost if not just as important as the finishing stretch. And this match starts out with Flair just Naitching it up in the ring, something that will always cause me to mark hard. Flair ripping at Angle's mouth, then ripping at his nose and biting him is so great. Angle wasn't bad in this match or anything, not even close, but the thing was brilliant because of Flair, end of story. I love how it became a thing for him when times get tough he just decides to go for the nut grab. It's a cheap pop but no one on the roster could pull a move off like that, except for Flair. They botch the superplex, but really I'd have liked if Flair had just raked the eyes and fallen on purpose instead of it being an accident, as I thought that spot was unnecessary anyways.

Now I'm left wondering, is this a top 10 Angle match? It's really that good.

I just realized, Flair has 3 matches I think absolutely warrant ****1/4+ in 2005 alone (Cage and LMS with Hunter, this match with Flair). Flair was damn near 60 in 2005. Kofi Kingston, the Miz, and Wade Barrett don't have 3 ****1/4+ matches COMBINED in their entire careers :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gonna watch that Angle/Flair match later. Hell, I might even go on a Kurt Angle spree tonight. Suggest some matches fellas. Not stuff like SummerSlam v Austin that I've seen a bunch of times, some of his less talked about matches. They don't even have to be very good.



SKINS said:


> yea probably will skip it, just put True Detectives on instead


Episode 5? ****3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea episode 5

Ive been saying for a while now, Flair 05 is better than anyone in the 05 outside of maybe eddie


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch and review the Booker T vs Kurt Angle storyline AND match from JD 05 plz


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Gonna watch that Angle/Flair match later. Hell, I meant even go on a Kurt Angle spree tonight. Suggest some matches fellas. Not stuff like SummerSlam v Austin that I've seen a bunch of times, some of his less talked about matches. They don't even have to be very good.
> 
> 
> 
> Episode 5? ****3/4


You've probably seen them, but


v. Cena _No Mercy 2003_ _*** 3/5_
v. Lesnar (60 minute Iron Man) _Smackdown_ _****_

v. Lesnar v. Big Show_ ****_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Gonna watch that Angle/Flair match later. Hell, I might even go on a Kurt Angle spree tonight. Suggest some matches fellas. Not stuff like SummerSlam v Austin that I've seen a bunch of times, some of his less talked about matches. They don't even have to be very good.
> 
> 
> 
> Episode 5? ****3/4



Vs Benoit Unforgiven 2002
Vs Jericho No Way Out 2000
Vs John Cena & Shawn Michaels Taboo Tuesday 2005
Vs Shawn Michaels Vengeance 2005
Vs Undertaker Smackdown 2003
Vs Undertaker No Way Out 2006
Vs Eddie Smackdown April 2005
Vs Eddie 2/3 Falls Smackdown September 2004
Vs The Rock & The Undertaker Vengeance 2002
Vs Rey Mysterio Summerslam 2002


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Also:

SmackDown Japan (02/10/2005) - Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio

SmackDown (WWE Championship Series 2005) - Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero

No Way Out 2005 - Kurt Angle vs John Cena


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Vs Benoit Unforgiven 2002
> Vs Jericho No Way Out 2000
> Vs John Cena & Shawn Michaels Taboo Tuesday 2005
> Vs Shawn Michaels Vengeance 2005
> ...


:barkley


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> :barkley


You don't like those? The first 4 I listed are either good or pretty good, but the last 6 are all GREAT matches, especially the ones with Taker involved.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Yea episode 5
> 
> Ive been saying for a while now, Flair 05 is better than anyone in the 05 outside of maybe eddie


HHH would've been up there too if he didn't take a few months off. Top notch performances and matches against Batista and Flair x2. Plus a couple groovy TV matches with Benoit and a great showing in the NYR Chamber. Dude gets crapped on for periods in his career (and in general tbh) and rightfully so but he was a legit good worker in 04-05. He carried that form into 2006 too before he got injured or DX happened or whatever.



SMITTY said:


> Watch and review the Booker T vs Kurt Angle storyline AND match from JD 05 plz


That sounds like something I want to watch. No idea if it's good or not. 

Also, Angle had a PPV match with Mark Henry in like '06 right? I'm watching that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH would've been up there too if he didn't take a few months off. Top notch performances and matches against Batista and Flair x2. Plus a couple groovy TV matches with Benoit and a great showing in the NYR Chamber. Dude gets crapped on for periods in his career (and in general tbh) and rightfully so but he was a legit good worker in 04-05.
> 
> .


Yea I loved Triple H 04-05 minus the injuries, IMO that was his prime, pretty good weekies and the classics w/ Naitch Hbk/benoit etc, he was amazing then


SD no, their rumble match is pretty poor


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> You don't like those? The first 4 I listed are either good or pretty good, but the last 6 are all GREAT matches, especially the ones with Taker involved.


No, I forgot those matches. I fucking love Taker vs Angle in most of their match ups, and Eddie has always put on a great show.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> That sounds like something I want to watch. No idea if it's good or not.
> 
> Also, Angle had a PPV match with Mark Henry in like '06 right? I'm watching that.


Its such a strange angle 



Spoiler: in case you dont want to be spoiled



The angle revolves around Kurt trying to rape Sharmell :lmao


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Its such a strange angle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That angle is the oddest of the Ruthless Aggression Era that I can pull out the top of my head.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah the match wasn't GREAT or anything but it was fine for what it was

the angle tho :ti


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Yeah the match wasn't GREAT or anything but it was fine for what it was
> 
> the angle tho :ti


I don't even remember the match or who won, that angle made me


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck, I can't wait for the WWE Network. Still not sure what PPV I'm going to watch first.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Rapist Kurt from mid 05 was...um...yeah, I'm not gonna get into that. 

Hopefully SD this week is good, because I've been beyond stressed this week...I should probably get off this forum...nah.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Yea I loved Triple H 04-05 minus the injuries, IMO that was his prime, pretty good weekies and the classics w/ Naitch Hbk/benoit etc, he was amazing then
> 
> 
> SD no, their rumble match is pretty poor



Triple H in 2000:

Vs Foley RR *****
Vs Foley NWO HIAC ****1/2
VS Rocky Backlash ****1/2
Vs Rocky Judgement Day IronMan ****1/4
Vs Jericho RAW State College ****
Vs Jericho LMS Fully Loaded ****3/4
Vs Benoit No Mercy ***3/4

Sorry, I'm gonna go with 2000 being his best year, with 2005 following then 2001 and 2004. I'm an outspoken critic of the guy, but even I cannot deny he was great in 2000. 75% of the matches I enjoy with him took place that year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Triple H in 2000:
> 
> Vs Foley RR *****
> Vs Foley NWO HIAC ****1/2
> ...


Besides the rumble match, I'd have both flair matches over all of those, Same w/ the HIAC w/ Batista. He also has some very good weekies w/ Benoit. If we were to venture into 04 you have the hbk/benoit matches


Edit: Chamber match


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

HHH is the motherfucking GOAT, excuse my French.



Okay, it's Austin, but HHH was the bomb when I was growing up, so I have a soft spot for his matches. Except anything involving Steiner.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> HHH is the motherfucking GOAT, excuse my French.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, it's Austin, but HHH was the bomb when I was growing up, so I have a soft spot for his matches. Except anything involving Steiner.




The more I watch of Austin, the more I'm convinced that he really is a top 10 all time in the ring talent.  He works so smartly, never throwing 4 punches when 1 will do, always drawing things out for maximum effect. No to mention he managed to work 2 completely different but equally compelling heel characters (1992-1994 WCW Stunning Steve, 1996-1997 & 2001 Stone Cold) while also being one of the most iconic baby faces in wrestling history. 

By that account, Steve mentioned in a recent podcast that he had some fabulous matches with Dustin back in WCW, does anyone have any links or dates to some of the matches he might be talking about? The Natural vs Stunning Steve sounds like magic on paper.

Edit-NVM I found a bunch on DM.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brye said:


> Fuck, I can't wait for the WWE Network. Still not sure what PPV I'm going to watch first.


I think I'm going to go chronological over all the companies. I feel like it would make for an interesting comparison of WCW/NWA and WWF/E and I guess some ECW thrown in as well. It would basically be me alternating between WWE and WCW which should make it a lot easier to watch because I would be less likely to get bored watching the same style of wrestling.

It probably helps that I'm fascinated by the pre-Attitude Era stuff because it's from the time period where I just sort of remember the wrestling. And I was always a WCW fan so all of their PPVs has me really interested. 

I'm mostly looking forward to WCW Sinn because I ordered it as a kid, fell asleep during it, and the tape in the VCR ran out before the main event so I've never seen that match and I was so upset that I missed it and couldn't see it the next day.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> The more I watch of Austin, the more I'm convinced that he really is a top 10 all time in the ring talent. He works so smartly, never throwing 4 punches when 1 will do, always drawing things out for maximum effect. No to mention he managed to work 2 completely different but equally compelling heel characters (1992-1994 WCW Stunning Steve, 1996-1997 & 2001 Stone Cold) while also being one of the most iconic baby faces in wrestling history.
> 
> By that account, Steve mentioned in a recent podcast that he had some fabulous matches with Dustin back in WCW, does anyone have any links or dates to some of the matches he might be talking about? The Natural vs Stunning Steve sounds like magic on paper.
> 
> Edit-NVM I found a bunch on DM.


He was surprisingly great as Stunning Steve. The problem with him and other great heels is that they often have character traits I like in characters in fiction. Either way, he is amazing, crossed lines as a heel and a face. His work never drastically changed from 1996 on, it was the subtle changes that really made him out as a face or a heel.



Austin is awesome


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

My memories a bit shady but, wasn't there a thread in here a while back, where someone uploaded a RAW and a Nitro episode, and then people watched & reviewed them or something? I'm asking because I think that when the Network launches, we could do the same thing. Maybe even throw in ECW.


Speaking of Triple H, I freakin love his Last Man Standing match against Flair from Survivor Series 2005. 
That screwdriver spot is so brutal. :banderas


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Mass viewings and reviews of the same shows certainly seems to be a doable/interesting thing with the Network once it's available everywhere.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I think I'm going to go chronological over all the companies. I feel like it would make for an interesting comparison of WCW/NWA and WWF/E and I guess some ECW thrown in as well. It would basically be me alternating between WWE and WCW which should make it a lot easier to watch because I would be less likely to get bored watching the same style of wrestling.
> 
> It probably helps that I'm fascinated by the pre-Attitude Era stuff because it's from the time period where I just sort of remember the wrestling. And I was always a WCW fan so all of their PPVs has me really interested.
> 
> I'm mostly looking forward to WCW Sinn because I ordered it as a kid, fell asleep during it, and the tape in the VCR ran out before the main event so I've never seen that match and I was so upset that I missed it and couldn't see it the next day.


What year was that? If it was 2001 I heard that the main event isn't good .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Kurt Angle v Ric Flair - Raw (6/27/05)
Holy shit this was awesome. Like seriously, if you haven't seen this match watch it NOW! Such a good example of how brilliant Flair was even at this stage of his career and also of how good Angle matches can be when he's in there with someone to structure a sensibly laid out match where he can't be MOVEZ Angle. From the get go Flair takes this thing by the scruff of the neck and carries it in a direction that is SO much better than a ton of Angle matches. They started doing some mat work and I was like oh dear lord don't let this be something stupid like Flair actually out wrestling an Olympic gold medalist on the mat but Angle quickly got on top of things and Flair just as quickly realized he can't go hold for hold with him and starts ripping away at Angle, literally. He went after his mouth, his nose, his eyes, basically his entire face, and it RULED. The longer the match goes the deeper Flair digs into his bag of tricks to keep up with his younger, stronger, faster opponent. Every time it looks like Angle's about to take full control Flair finds a way to prevent it, whether it be biting him, throwing him into the steps or grabbing his balls. I didn't know ball grabbing was legal but who gives a fuck right? GREAT low blow spot to avoid the triple Germans. DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME! Angle's fine in this and really and truly that's all he had to be. Flair was masterful. Shame about the botched superplex but it didn't bother me much. The finishing stretch felt totally satisfying and appropriate. Love the little touches Flair throws in there like at the very end when he's in the Ankle Lock and realizes he can't reach the ropes so he reaches for the ref instead. GREAT match. At least ***3/4 for the snowflake folks out there. That's probably what I'd settle on but I'm not gonna argue with anyone who puts it in the 4 star range.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Will watch in a second Saint Dick


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

SMITTY said:


> What year was that? If it was 2001 I heard that the main event isn't good .


January 2001 I believe. And I'm sure that the main event isn't any good just like I'm pretty sure the rest of the card is terrible. 

I looked up the main event and it was Sid vs. Jarrett vs. Steiner vs. Mystery Guy. They Mystery Guy was Animal, which I knew, and the match lasts less than 8 minutes. I'm not expecting a classic but it will be good to finally see the match that I was denied seeing as a kid. It's the only time that I ever fell asleep during a PPV and didn't have it taped for another viewing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh okay I just didn't want you to think the match was gonna be a classic and get dissapointed :lol

Now, the bigger question is why did you buy A WCW PPV in 2001?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Whose punches are worse, Angle or Michaels?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thats a tough one

Im down on HBK lately, not enough good offense imo, at least Angle had the Suplex shit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Michaels x 101928297840297487548372995247875889023108084058

Angle could throw some decent punches back in the day.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Shane McMahon's punches are the worst...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Angle throws some good uppercuts. Don't like his punches. I'll agree with Shawn's being worse though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Whose punches are worse, Angle or Michaels?


Michaels, and not even because I mark for him. He actually threw a great punch in the 90s and solid one in his second run, he traded them in for chops. Some of the times Angle although had good ones, looked like he was winding back like a pitcher in baseball


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Current roster, who throws the best punch? Taker and Lesnar aren't included. HHH is actually a good puncher but we'll exclude him too.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Shane McMahon's punches are the worst...


They were brilliant in my opinion, goofy is a plus for me sometimes. If I really want some punches, I'd go to HHH, Race, Lawler, Angle, Taker, and any other badass guys with great melee offense that I cannot think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH is actually a good puncher but we'll exclude him too.


:lmao good one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Current roster, who throws the best punch? Taker and Lesnar aren't included. HHH is actually a good puncher but we'll exclude him too.


Goldust, I really like Bryan's ; Cesaro, henry, show WHEN HE gives a damn orton, when he does they are the worst looking punches EVER


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I've always liked Kane's uppercuts.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Michaels, and not even because I mark for him. He actually threw a great punch in the 90s and solid one in his second run, he traded them in for chops. Some of the times Angle although had good ones, looked like he was winding back like a pitcher in baseball


I love Angle's punches, a bit over the top, but still solid.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Goldust, I really like Bryan's ; Cesaro, henry, show WHEN HE gives a damn orton, when he does they are the worst looking punches EVER


THIS. Forgot Goldust, his punches are a nice throwback, Bryan's make up for his height, like Cesaro and Henry's, but Show's are alright IMO. Orton's have deteriorated over the years.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Orton's punches FTW, if only because he used to always go "DSSSHHHHHH" when throwing them

Oh, and IMO the worst punches are ADR's when he drops down to a knee. I don't think those have ever come close to connecting


----------



## P5YC40D3L1C (Jun 19, 2012)

Aksana and Lana should form together as Akslana...Mmm...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So just had a think and... does ANYONE on the active roster right now throw decent punches? Christian has the awesome SLAP, I seem to think Goldust does the same too... and then there is... uhhh... Roman Reigns and his SUPERMAN PUNCH?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

King Cal said:


> :lmao good one.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


>


3...

2...

1...


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I feel like Rhodes sometimes throws a pretty decent punch, though, at times, his punches can look pretty off, as well. I may need to look into a few Titus matches to see how good of a punch he throws. I fave a feeling he may throw a decent punch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro's corner punches are a pleasure to watch. Del Rio's ground punches are probably the worst. Their even worse than Undertaker's ground punches, which typically look horrible. Never made sense to me why Undertaker's punches standing up and on his knees are a thing of beauty, but when it's towards a grounded opponent, it looks so unnatural.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I guess I really don't pay attention to punches really only take notice when its bad lol


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Current roster, who throws the best punch? Taker and Lesnar aren't included. HHH is actually a good puncher but we'll exclude him too.


Triple H makes so much noise when he throws a single punch :lmao

Who needs punches when you can throw an upper cut like Cesaro :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Triple H makes so much noise when he throws a single punch :lmao


Yeah he does but that's never bothered me. They look good.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah he does but that's never bothered me. They look good.


Wasn't saying they sucked, just thought I'd point that out.

I really hope SmackDown is fun again this week, I don't read spoilers just fyi.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SD card looks solid this week.

Angle/Henry RR '06 is bad. Should've listened to whoever told me not to watch it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> SD card looks solid this week.
> 
> Angle/Henry RR '06 is bad. Should've listened to whoever told me not to watch it.


At least you know it sucks haha.

I always rather watch it at least once to see just how bad it is, but that's just me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't know why I wanted to watch Angle. Should've continued with old man Flair after the Angle/Flair match, which is what I'm doing now. Flair/Foley I Quit is brutally awesome. Difficult to compare to most matches because of the nature of it but it was a great watch. "I'LL KILL YOU TOO BITCH!" from Flair to Melina :mark:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

King Cal said:


> So just had a think and... does ANYONE on the active roster right now throw decent punches? Christian has the awesome SLAP, I seem to think Goldust does the same too... and then there is... uhhh... Roman Reigns and his SUPERMAN PUNCH?


...Big Show? I got nothing here, but then they _are_ illegal you know. Good for our boys for playing hard, but playing within the rules:genius

I mean, there's a bunch of guys who throw a DECENT one, but none that are really noticeably great (which is what I think you're asking).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> ...Big Show? I got nothing here, but then they _are_ illegal you know. Good for our boys for playing hard, but playing within the rules:genius
> 
> I mean, there's a bunch of guys who throw a DECENT one, but none that are really noticeably great (which is what I think you're asking).


What's illegal?


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Saint Dick said:


> What's illegal?


closed fist punch


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

jessyj2009 said:


> closed fist punch


They haven't been illegal for years.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

My thoughts on Shawn's Wrestlemania matches:



> Vs. The Twin Towers - The Rockers put on a valiant effort against the two behemoths.
> 
> Vs. The Orient Express - I thought it was boring. The Royal Rumble rematch puts it to shame
> 
> ...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

My taste in wrestling has changed so much in the last couple years that I have no clue what I think of some of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches. Maybe I'll make a project of it. There's a few I've never seen and some that my opinion on might be drastically different now. Sitting through the iron man with Bret will be tough.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> They haven't been illegal for years.


Since when? Last I checked you'll stand to be strongly admonished by the ref for a closed fisted punch. Also, didn't Flair get DQ'd against Bubba Ray for that some years back?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

More old man Flair :bosh7

Ric Flair v Triple H - Survivor Series '05
Always loved this and it held up splendidly. Cal you seriously trying to tell me H isn't a good puncher? Get out of here. Dude throws some nice ones. The screwdriver stuff was what I remembered most from this and it was fucking awesome again. Brutal in the best of ways and old man Flair is the perfect guy to sell that shit with his crazy old man screams and unearthly blade jobs. Thought Trips was generally very good in control. All cerebral or whatever with the methodical pacing of his offense and his intent to punish Flair. Naturally Flair was brilliant as the old dude getting killed but refusing to stay down and he's just as good as the crazy motherfucker who will do anything to put you away when he gets on offense. Sustained balls/leg work over from Naitch was obviously great. Flair going down low and HHH playing heel in peril is a winning combination. Strong performances from both men. I feel like it would be unfair to the other guy if I said one of them was better. One spot down the stretch that I appreciated was the drop toe hold into the steel steps. That's been done a million times but I find a lot of guys make it look way too contrived. Thought Hunter did a nice job of making it look as natural as possible. The finish was perfect. Flair looked like the toughest motherfucker alive in defeat, HHH looked like a sadistic asshole. Exactly what they were going for. Excellent match. 



JustJoel said:


> Since when? Last I checked you'll stand to be strongly admonished by the ref for a closed fisted punch. Also, didn't Flair get DQ'd against Bubba Ray for that some years back?


The refs and commentators stopped doing/saying anything about it a few years ago.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> My taste in wrestling has changed so much in the last couple years that I have no clue what I think of some of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches. Maybe I'll make a project of it. There's a few I've never seen and some that my opinion on might be drastically different now. Sitting through the iron man with Bret will be tough.


This is one of those times where you shouldn't actually watch the match :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Kurt Angle v Ric Flair - Raw (6/27/05)
> Holy shit this was awesome. Like seriously, if you haven't seen this match watch it NOW! Such a good example of how brilliant Flair was even at this stage of his career and also of how good Angle matches can be when he's in there with someone to structure a sensibly laid out match where he can't be MOVEZ Angle. From the get go Flair takes this thing by the scruff of the neck and carries it in a direction that is SO much better than a ton of Angle matches. They started doing some mat work and I was like oh dear lord don't let this be something stupid like Flair actually out wrestling an Olympic gold medalist on the mat but Angle quickly got on top of things and Flair just as quickly realized he can't go hold for hold with him and starts ripping away at Angle, literally. He went after his mouth, his nose, his eyes, basically his entire face, and it RULED. The longer the match goes the deeper Flair digs into his bag of tricks to keep up with his younger, stronger, faster opponent. Every time it looks like Angle's about to take full control Flair finds a way to prevent it, whether it be biting him, throwing him into the steps or grabbing his balls. I didn't know ball grabbing was legal but who gives a fuck right? GREAT low blow spot to avoid the triple Germans. DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME! Angle's fine in this and really and truly that's all he had to be. Flair was masterful. Shame about the botched superplex but it didn't bother me much. The finishing stretch felt totally satisfying and appropriate. Love the little touches Flair throws in there like at the very end when he's in the Ankle Lock and realizes he can't reach the ropes so he reaches for the ref instead. GREAT match. At least ***3/4 for the snowflake folks out there. That's probably what I'd settle on but I'm not gonna argue with anyone who puts it in the 4 star range.


FLAIR.

I'm glad it holds up. Loved it on the original airing and it still maintains all value today. The groin claw has basically gotten past "DQ'ing" and into the realm of "ref will yell at you until you let go before five or something" type kayfabe glory. While I felt Flair made up most of this match, Angle being restrained and following the format mapped out by someone far better did it's job plenty too. For those who want to talk that guy up, this is one of the matches they should actually mention. Not boatloads of his crap.

Also few other notes: Shawn Michaels' punches are worse. Goldust is the best on the current roster at throwing punches. Don't watch Michaels vs Hart Iron Man. Worst thing ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lawler still throws the best punch out of anyone on the roster. I remember that one he nuked Ted Dibiase with on Raw sometime in 2010/11 which looked jaw shattering. Whoever mentioned Cesaro's corner punches has a good pick, I think it was the Kofi match where he teed off with some nice weighted body punches and they looked really good. Goldust throws a great right hand, but they're sometimes more akin to a slap/uppercut mix than a flat out punch.

As for HHH, I can't truthfully recall the mechanics of his punch, but the 'hold opponent's head' and incessant noise he makes delivering and receiving a punch has always taken me out of his punch exchanges. I can't really remember how the actual punch he throws looks, but the theatrics involved is the sort of theatrics that irk me, which is saying something because I typically enjoy people who can throw some creativity and theatrical performance into matches when the time is right.


Unless you did something very horrible and feel you went unpunished, avoid the HBK/Hart Iron-Man for your sanity. It is bollocks.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Someone on the last page said Hbk vs Bret is the GOAT match.

I still don't get why people enjoy rest holds so much :lol. Personally think that match is close to DUD territory


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As for HHH, I can't truthfully recall the mechanics of his punch, but the 'hold opponent's head' and incessant noise he makes delivering and receiving a punch has always taken me out of his punch exchanges.


This is why I was laughing last night... uhhh... dude I was laughing at . I HATE anyone who holds the fucking head and then throws a punch, it looks god AWFUL. Plus HHH's groans are hilarious :lmao.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with Orton's punches. His clotheslines, OTOH, look like shit more than 70% of the time. For someone whose execution of things is usually great, I don't know why on Earth he doesn't fix that.

Shawn's punches are fine too. Well, actually I don't recall noticing them one way or another during his second run, so maybe he's gotten worse in that regard and I just haven't noticed. But during his first run I thought that they were pretty great. In fact, Nash specifically commented on this. Said that Shawn throws punches the way that a big guy would, and that's one of the reasons why he was acceptable and believable going against much bigger opponents. I liked his rapid, quick, jabs.

Astonishing that we've had this conversation and Cena hasn't been mentioned. He is by far the worst on the roster when it comes to punches. And it's surprising, because with his body type, you'd expect that to be a strong suit of his. During that Cesaro match, he threw a series of about four or five punches in a row, and not one of them even remotely looked like they connected. The gap was SO wide. Same for his kicks too, for that matter.

This ALWAYS happens with Cena when he does one of his flurries. It's unavoidable in almost every single match of his. In fact when I was watching one of his matches with someone who doesn't really watch wrestling, that was the only time they made a "you can tell that's so fake" type comment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn's punches are not fine. :hayden3

Finished Judgment Day 2005. Still a show w/three great matches and while I don't hold it in regard of being great anymore, Cena vs JBL was at least on the fun side - despite being more or less an above average WWE gimmick affair - and easily Cena's best match from what I've seen so far in 2005. Lets see how long that can hold up. Probably not long w/Vengeance on the horizon and I've always liked the Triple Threat on that show.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Shawn's punches are not fine. :hayden3
> 
> Finished Judgment Day 2005. Still a show w/three great matches and while I don't hold it in regard of being great anymore, Cena vs JBL was at least on the fun side - despite being more or less an above average WWE gimmick affair - and easily Cena's best match from what I've seen so far in 2005. Lets see how long that can hold up. Probably not long w/Vengeance on the horizon and I've always liked the Triple Threat on that show.


I'll pay more attention to them when I watch more stuff from his second run, to see what you guys are talking about. If it hasn't been noticeable already though, then I doubt it's anything I'd find too awful.

Now that I think of it, I mostly remember him doing chops, which I find really annoying. It's like he traded in punches for chops, and I don't know why he chose to do that. It seems lazy to me almost. 

Was Judgment Day 2005 before Summerslam 2005? If so, Cena/Jericho might replace that JD '05 JBL match as Cena's best of the year. I recently re-watched Cena/Jericho and loved it. I still think that JD '05 is one of Cena's better performances, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, JD was in May. I already know Cena vs Jericho is probably going to top the list _(possibly even overall)_ but I'm playing it by closer dates for now. Been big on the Cena vs Jericho match ever since I first saw it. Real slick chemistry among the two. Dunno if I feel their rematch the following night on RAW has it beat. A situation I'll find out soon enough.

Cena's performance at JD was fine. Nothing special, although not bad. He takes a licking. Glad he took all the shots to the head by JBL w/o care. Dunno which was more aggressive, the steel chair or the steel steps, tbf. His comeback was pretty much expected. JBL dishes out his whooping and not long after Cena does the same before winning. It's a basic line they tread in the match. However, it had the interesting piece of where the pitfalls of slamming through one new visually brutal spot over and over in the last few minutes trumped the early lackluster brawling produced in the first few minutes. Normally it's by that time where matches begin to dwindle down. Like I said; average at heart. Albeit fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't really like any Cena/Jericho match. Haven't seen their 05 matches for years though (because I thought they sucked), and when I watched their SVS 08 match recently I was extremely disappointed given how some people on here were pimping it.

Watching the Batista doc atm. How the fuck does this get an hour and a half and Eddie Guerrero got 45 fucking minutes? Batista is such a man whore. And :lmao before he got into wrestling, while he was BIG from bodybuilding, his face just looked FAT. Like someone photoshopped a fat guy's head onto a muscular body . Hmmmm... gives me an idea for a new FB profile photo :side:.

Based on my memory of Cena in 05, at least PPV wise, the Vengeance triple threat and I Quit with Jibble are probably the only 2 worth watching.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena 's STF though :lol It was even more laughable in the Orton RR match. 

And I can never stand the fucking 'Five knuckle Shuffle' But I thought Cena was generally very good in the Cesaro match. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> SD card looks solid this week.
> *
> Angle/Henry RR '06 is bad. Should've listened to whoever told me not to watch it*.




Tbf I think saying Michaels had the worse punches is abit hyperbole (noticing a trend in here :argh Yea I thought his punches in the 90s were p.good, little short jabs like boxers. In his 2nd run he really didnt throw as many punches as he,because he traded them in for naitch chops.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody (and other people too... I guess :side, what matches are worth watching from 2014 so far in WWE that didn't happen on Raw or SD (and RR, duh)?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't know who Cody is but I'm pretty sure I count as other people, so I'm going to go ahead and recommend Goldust vs Jack Swagger from Main Event as far as good matches from the secondary shows go. Nothing else jumps to mind.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've watched the Vengeance triple threat so many times, and I still think it's boring. Nothing flowed. It felt like just a collection of moves for 15 minutes. Not too big on Jericho/Cena or JBL/Cena either. It's pretty amazing to see how much Cena has improved. Went from being total shit to a beast.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I've watched the Vengeance triple threat so many times, and I still think it's boring. Nothing flowed. It felt like just a collection of moves for 15 minutes. Not too big on Jericho/Cena or JBL/Cena either. It's pretty amazing to see how much Cena has improved. Went from being total shit to a beast.



I'm not big on the Vengeance triple threat either, but it is mildly entertaining, it's not wrestlecrap or anything. I am big on Jericho/Cena SS 2005 and Cena/JBL. I think both are great matches with the Jericho match being my preferred one. The match the next night on Raw was really good too. On last watch I think I had them at:

JBL/Cena I Quit: ****
Cena/Jericho SS: ****1/4
Cena/Jericho Raw: ****


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

To the person asking for recommendations from this year, apparently I was confused and Goldust vs Swagger actually happened at the end of last year not the start of this year. That being said, I can't think of anything from NXT, Main Event or Superstars from this year that's worth going out of your way to see. Real Americans vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods is probably the best I can think of.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As much as I like the Real Americans, I ain't going out of my way to see a Truth/Woods match even against them .


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Never seen that Cena/Jericho SS rated so high before


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know which year was worse: Cena's 2005 or his 2006. Only Cena matches I liked in 2005 were the Royal Rumble, Jericho/Cena SS (not a fan of the RAW one), the Taboo Tuesday triple threat, and umm...I think that's it. Wow, only one singles match. And then in 2006, he had the Mania match with HHH, the Backlash Triple Threat where HHH somehow carried both of them, the only good Edge match at Summerslam, the RVD bouts, and the short match with Undertaker. Now how did this man learn so much in 2007?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Cody (and other people too... I guess :side, what matches are worth watching from 2014 so far in WWE that didn't happen on Raw or SD (and RR, duh)?


From my list:

Main Event:
1) Jack Swagger & Antonio Cesaro vs R-Truth & Xavier Woods - 1/8
2) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs Sin Cara II, Diego, & Fernando (10:41) - 2/12

NXT:
1) Two out of Three Falls Match
Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger - 1/1

Superstars:
1) Jack Swagger vs Tyson Kidd (4:52) - 1/2

Haven't watched the last three weeks of NXT yet. I know Neville vs Graves main events one show. I'm expecting that to be a quality match, per what they gave vs each other in the past.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I've watched the Vengeance triple threat so many times, and I still think it's boring. Nothing flowed. It felt like just a collection of moves for 15 minutes. Not too big on Jericho/Cena or JBL/Cena either. It's pretty amazing to see how much Cena has improved. Went from being total shit to a beast.


So far both he and Angle (b/c remember you preference and I said I'll discover who's 2005 was better) have sucked on the year. It's basically Cena vs JBL I Quit vs the Royal Rumble Triple Threat match as the only matches of theirs I've watched that are worth a mention. Unsure if I should give Angle the edge by proxy of the triple threat b/c it wasn't a lone effort, although I feel that match > the I Quit. Decisions.

To add more to this, Angle vs Mysterio in Japan is bleh. God dammit Kurt. Why must you suck the life when you control matches? Pointless mid-section work that went NOWHERE. Rey's comeback was fun b/c he's Rey. But not acknowledging the hurt body was unsavory. Just no good at any point.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

RVD's bitchy forearms are goat.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cal, the best any of the 3 B/C Shows has to offer is probably the Swagger/Kidd match from Superstars at the beginning of the year (I want to say it's the 3rd of Jan). Whilst we may have been treated to some great matches on Raw and SD, the rest of the WWE programming sucks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Swagger has been having a good 2014 so far. He's been given the chance to cut loose in singles + the tags w/Cesaro. Match vs Kidd was the kind of sprint it should have been. He made Kidd cover up his blandness for the whole duration.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cheers for the list Cody. Downloading the Superstars and NXT shows. The Main Event matches just aren't appealing to me though .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God dammit Kurt. How do you have a shitty match with Rey Mysterio in 2005? I am so sorry that I put that focus on the comparison of Angle and Cena's 2005. You must be feeling some horrid pain watching both of them attentively.

I didn't know you liked Wyatt Family vs. Faux Luchadores. I thought you only liked 1/3 of the people in that match. I thought it was loads of fun. Much better than their RAW match. For what it's worth (which is none), I kinda liked Langston/Usos vs. 3MB. But I suggest Cal to avoid that match in favor of Killer Khan vs. Andre The Giant.

KILLER KHAN!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe when you grow more on the Wyatt's you'll try out the six man. 

Despite loving those three bearded heels, even I was a bit surprised at how fun the match was. Think the RAW six man this week _(if you watched it)_ but better. Matadores gimmick needs to die tho. Colons were already a bit dry as an overall package from the start. Only now they have a stupid gimmick that waters them down WAY more. Yikes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm definitely warming up tot he Wyatts, but its rare I like their opponents so I find it impossible to even attempt to sit through their matches. Just like that RA/Truth & Woods match. Truth and Woods are up their with UC and Jiz. JUST FUCK OFF.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Erick Rowan is nowhere near as bad as I thought he would be. I honestly can't remember him doing anything poorly in the ring since like a month after he debuted. He's got his character down to perfection just like the rest of the gang. In fact, I thought he was the star performer in that orgasmic Punk/Bryan vs. Wyatts SvS match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just watched 2012 chamber. EC 2012 ratings: 

RAW CHAMBER: ***1/4
SD CHAMBER: ***
Kane/Cena: **3/4


Rest was awful. Last year's wasn't much better either


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> God dammit Kurt. How do you have a shitty match with Rey Mysterio in 2005? I am so sorry that I put that focus on the comparison of Angle and Cena's 2005. You must be feeling some horrid pain watching both of them attentively.
> 
> I didn't know you liked Wyatt Family vs. Faux Luchadores. I thought you only liked 1/3 of the people in that match. I thought it was loads of fun. Much better than their RAW match. For what it's worth (which is none), I kinda liked Langston/Usos vs. 3MB. But I suggest Cal to avoid that match in favor of Killer Khan vs. Andre The Giant.
> 
> KILLER KHAN!


Well, I'm slamming through all of 2005. Might as well do a project within a project while I'm at it. I'm begging WWE to not let Cena squash anymore people on the year. The delay on putting him in the main event was brutal all on that aspect alone. Only match where it wasn't completely one sided AND didn't suck was the little match vs Dupree in Canada. It played off some spots from their past bouts and was fine for what they gave. Rest...nope. I know Angle has the Flair match later on & vs Jannetty which I am hoping holds up. If that one doesn't then I seriously think Angle had one good singles match the entire year.

Yeah, it was fun. While I don't like the Matadores and Hunico w/the Sin Cara gimmick is lukewarm at best I can easily acknowledge when a match featuring theme hit a nice stride. Large domination by the Wyatts' is so good, this was an easy pick.



King Cal said:


> I'm definitely warming up tot he Wyatts, but its rare I like their opponents so I find it impossible to even attempt to sit through their matches. Just like that RA/Truth & Woods match. Truth and Woods are up their with UC and Jiz. JUST FUCK OFF.


Fair enough. I've suffered through some terrible Drew McIntyre matches the last few years b/c I didn't ignore a principle like this. The pain was immense.

UC botching his springboard spot on Swagger last week basically made watching that bout worthwhile. Although it wasn't any good. Henry had the best parts.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jericho used to throw some nice stiff punches, but in recent years he's definitely gone down in that regard. Taker throws some all time great bombs, but I will echo what another person said, the punches he throws when he's on his knees to an opponents midsection look godawful at times.

If we are just talking punches and not forearms, uppercuts (which Cesaro is currently the King of those two strikes on the main roster) I'd say Dustin probably throws the best punches. Nice actually seen some matches where Randy Orton will throw some beautiful punches, then others when they are so bad they can be comical.

I'm biased, but I LOVE the forearms that Eddie used to throw. Especially when he would have an opponent doubled over and would just start teeing off on their head, then mix it up by going elbow shot-forearm-elbow shot-forearm etc until the guy dropped to his knees. Then of course Benoits forearm clubbing blows to an opponents back where just AWESOME. Don't even get me started on Vaders awesome forearms clubs to the opponents head and ears.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Goldust's "punches" are more like slaps/open-fisted uppercuts. Still look pretty great, though.

Orton's clotheslines are unbearable, but his punches are decent I suppose.

CESARO's stiffness >>>>>


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hate Orton's clotheslines, so robotic (ironic). After thinking about it I would Goldust punches, but more so slaps

Use to love Phil Brooks' forearms to 


Edit: found a eddie/orton smackdown match, will check it out, I think its right before Eddie Passed


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Unless you did something very horrible and feel you went unpunished, avoid the HBK/Hart Iron-Man for your sanity. It is bollocks.


:lmao

I think that's sorta what happened to me. I needed to be punished for something (no idea what I've done so bad) so when I watched this match a month or so ago, my luck got 10x better and I finally passed this physics test that had been killing me for months. If there's any relations here, I'm willing to put up with many more horribly boring torturous matches.



Cactus Jack said:


> Jericho used to throw some nice stiff punches, but in recent years he's definitely gone down in that regard.
> 
> Nice actually seen some matches where Randy Orton will throw some beautiful punches, then others when they are so bad they can be comical.
> 
> Then of course Benoits forearm clubbing blows to an opponents back where just AWESOME.


My favorite part of Jericho's strikes is the yelling sound he makes with them. It works for him because he has a good yelling voice.

Randy's punches were awesome back in 2004 when he always yelled "Douche" as he threw a punch.

I always :mark: when Benoit is about to go german crazy and hits the opponent with those stiff forearms to their back.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Agreed with Skins on Punk's forearm shots. I also :mark: when Taker does his super quick body shots, and does that "BO BO BO BO BO BO" as he's firing up. 

Regal's strikes are pretty damn solid. BROCK though. The way he popped Cena in 2012 was amazing.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I finished watching Judgment Day 2005 last night & I'm glad to say that it is a very fun show still (Y)

Eddie vs Rey is :mark: though, I never realized how fantastic that match was until last night, I always thought it was solid but I knew I absolutely love it.

Cena/JBL is just a fun brawl still, so no complaints there.

The crowd for MNM vs Holly/Hass is :mark: & the match itself was very solid.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Do you and your bro disagree on anything :lol


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Do you and your bro disagree on anything :lol


HBK/ Triple H & Triple H/Cena matches mostly.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I think that's sorta what happened to me. I needed to be punished for something (no idea what I've done so bad) so when I watched this match a month or so ago, my luck got 10x better and I finally passed this physics test that had been killing me for months. If there's any relations here, I'm willing to put up with many more horribly boring torturous matches.


You must have straight A's after watching all of those Orton matches then 8*D.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Murderface, you seen Mysterio/JBL JD '06? It's not touching Eddie/JBL for obvious reasons, but I'd say it's one of JBL's absolute best performances and Mysterio is an obvious great face who times his comebacks and offence to a tee. Finish is a tad disappointing given what comes before it, but it's a minor quibble that doesn't detract from the rest of the match.

Regal/JBL from 4/28/06 might be JBL's most overlooked match however. Tremendous JBL dickhead performance in front of a UK crowd, and Regal plays passionate hometown favourite to a tee. Match is snug and vicious with both guys utilising some nasty holds and offence.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Murderface, you seen Mysterio/JBL JD '06? It's not touching Eddie/JBL for obvious reasons, but I'd say it's one of JBL's absolute best performances and Mysterio is an obvious great face who times his comebacks and offence to a tee. Finish is a tad disappointing given what comes before it, but it's a minor quibble that doesn't detract from the rest of the match.
> 
> Regal/JBL from 4/28/06 might be JBL's most overlooked match however. Tremendous JBL dickhead performance in front of a UK crowd, and Regal plays passionate hometown favourite to a tee. Match is snug and vicious with both guys utilising some nasty holds and offence.


Of course I've seen it, but I do not remember much from it, but I'm sure it's still a solid match.

I remember loving thier match at No Mercy 05 :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cody and Tyler have seen every match, SI.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody,Cal, Yeah, other 

Thoughts on Flair/Hart iron man and the IC title match ?

I watched some of the IC match last night, and it just seemed like they never got going and was rest hold after resthold


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> You must have straight A's after watching all of those Orton matches then 8*D.


Not quite, but I have no more F's despite being a procrastinator of the highest degree. 

I enjoy these Orton matches, so if I'm going to punish myself, it needs to be something that bores the hell out of me. Maybe the next time I'm outta luck, I'll throw on JBL vs Batista from The Bash and get my fix. Or maybe Undertaker vs HHH from King of the Ring. :lol

I can't even do that with Boss Man vs Undertaker because that match provides the comedy that Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels in a Restholds to a Finish does not.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who likes very few of Hart's matches? Seems like a lot of his matches are resthold fests.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody and Tyler have seen every match, SI.


I suppose once you watch Ants massacre themselves to pretend grenades, you can just about watch anything.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No other Greg, I'm the same way


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I suppose once you watch Ants massacre themselves to pretend grenades, you can just about watch anything.


:lmao

Just surprised/thrilled Cody wasn't in an Ant suit when I picked them up for SummerSlam.:woolcock


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So I'm watching Attitude Era episodes and I have reached July '98. Just a question, what was the point of the Brawl for All competitions? I mean you had JR saying it was legit but I just don't understand why they would add a legit competition where people got hurt for real in a scripted show.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> Just surprised/thrilled Cody wasn't in an Ant suit when I picked them up for SummerSlam.:woolcock


If he'd have worn that, I guarantee you could been sat near some bloke shouting 'Let's go Brooks' during Punk/Lenar and that bloke would STILL have been less embarrassing.

Would have only been worthy if McQueen had been invited and bought a life sized swatter to attack Cody with to force him into changing.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Thoughts on Flair/Hart iron man
> 
> and the IC title match ?


Sucks. One of the worst matches I've ever seen between two "good" people, tbh. 

Was that the one in Connecticut which had Perfect cheating? If so, I thought it was solid. Nothing spectacular, but nothing I hated.

The only match of theirs that I really like is Souled Out '98. Borederline loved.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> So I'm watching Attitude Era episodes and I have reached July '98. Just a question, what was the point of the Brawl for All competitions? I mean you had JR saying it was legit but I just don't understand why they would add a legit competition where people got hurt for real in a scripted show.


Think it was meant to get Dr. Death Steve Williams over as a legit star but that backfired when he got knocked the fuck out.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> If he'd have worn that, I guarantee you could been sat near some bloke shouting 'Let's go Brooks' during Punk/Lenar and that bloke would STILL have been less embarrassing.
> 
> Would have only been worthy if McQueen had been invited and bought a life sized swatter to attack Cody with to force him into changing.


Agreed. It was bad enough that I had to yell over them during the Punk/Lesnar match, as they're both Punk fans (who happen to like Brock as well, but still). :|


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Sucks. One of the worst matches I've ever seen between two "good" people, tbh.
> 
> Was that the one in Connecticut which had Perfect cheating? If so, I thought it was solid. Nothing spectacular, but nothing I hated.
> 
> The only match of theirs that I really like is Souled Out '98. Borederline loved.


Ok, IDK I didnt get far into the IC so idk if that is the one you are speaking of

Ive gone down recently on their souled out match tbh. The two of them are clearly just going through the motions and there is absolute no heat in it. Just no substance


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed. It was bad enough that I had to yell over them during the Punk/Lesnar match, as they're both Punk fans (who happen to like Brock as well, but still). :|


I can just envisage Cody screaming 'PEPSI PLUNGEEEEE' and you looking at him with scorn, the look of utter disdain still evident through your sunglasses.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I can just envisage Cody screaming 'PEPSI PLUNGEEEEE' and you looking at him with scorn, the look of utter disdain still evident through your sunglasses.


Agreed. Hopefully we won't have to worry about any Punk shenanigans when we go again this year. :hb


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed. Hopefully we won't have to worry about any Punk shenanigans when we go again this year. :hb


The three of you can spend the evening trying to painfully replicate how Cesaro throws uppercuts instead, far more productive


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That sounds much more LEGIT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So because Hart/HBK IM was discussed in here this morning I think I will do something dumb and rewatch it this weekend, I own it on the best of WWE championship set(that arrived WITHOUT the third disc ), I watched it once when I very first started wrestling because of people telling me how good it was, LOL at those accusations because I hated it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I remember ordering WM12 live and I'll admit I was pretty bored during that match up until the final few minutes. I kept getting up and finding things to do to kill time for a few minutes here or there, then come back to see if there had been any decisions. Then the match ends and there's no "winner." :|

Taker/Nash, though. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watched Taker/Nash the other day :moyes1


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Finally getting around to watching RAW now.

Bryan/Christian - ****1/2*. Not sure if Christian fully turned here but I enjoyed his aggressiveness in this (makes sense given he's underlooked going into the Chamber match, and the only guy not to beat Orton). The arm work from Christian, and his mocking of the YES chants (which was funny :lol) also suggests he's heel now. I hope he is, he's much more enjoyable as a heel. Christian controls most of the match and actually comes out looking very good because of it, Bryan sells the arm well and gives a usual very good babyface performance. The last few minutes were very enjoyable with the back and forth action and counter sequences, and the finish was kind of out of nowhere but was fine. It didn't make Christian look bad and could further push the frustrations of Christian's character atm. I'm glad Christian didn't lose to the YES lock. And I would love to see these two work a longer match on PPV with build.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I actually thought the HBK/Hart Wrestlemania 12 match was really good. It genuinely kept me interested for 62 minutes :draper2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Because your the biggest optimist I know SEJ 

I loved that match NOST, biggest fan of it, would love to see those 2 get 20 mins +


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah, I just dont get all the praise for it when it might be the worst Iron man in WWE history, haven't seen the Orton vs Cena one though


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Because your the biggest optimist I know SEJ
> 
> I loved that match NOST, biggest fan of it, would love to see those 2 get 20 mins +


lol To be fair I haven't watched that match in years so that may change with a rewatch. The problem I heard people had with this match was the selling and back then, I didn't really take selling into account so maybe I could join the majority that dislikes the match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SKINS said:


> I loved that match NOST, biggest fan of it, would love to see those 2 get 20 mins +


Yep.

But as typical the rest of RAW I didn't pay much attention to as I have little interest in anything going on. I was planning to watch Cesaro/Cena after the good reviews but after I realized I missed the first few minutes of it due to not paying attention, I just ended up watching bits of it, was some good stuff from what I saw, but I didn't watch enough of it to give a review/rating for it. And Orton/Sheamus main-event? No thanks. Oh well Elimination Chamber this Sunday, it's free in the UK here on Sky Sports so I'll be watching that, Wyatt Family vs The Shield is at least something I'm looking forward to seeing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Cody,Cal, Yeah, other
> 
> Thoughts on Flair/Hart iron man and the IC title match ?
> 
> I watched some of the IC match last night, and it just seemed like they never got going and was rest hold after resthold


I like the iron man. I kinda like the WM12 too, though. Dunno why so many people are calling it that awful while watching fifty HHH matches a week. Dudn't fuckin matter because Piper/Goldust is the main thing that show should be remembered for. It's so awesome.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Dunno why so many people are calling it that awful while watching fifty HHH matches a week.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Have you seen the IC title match between them Yeah ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Dunno why so many people are calling it that awful while watching fifty HHH matches a week.


I don't know who these people are but they sound awesome. They should post in here more often. 

:HHH2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on these two Iron man matches? 

John Morrison and the Miz vs Jimmy Wang Yang and Shannon Moore ECW 1/8/08 

Dusty Rhodes vs Rick Rude Beach Blast 1993 

I assume a lot of you have seen the latter


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Did someone say 50 H matches a week? 

:trips2

:trips3

:hhh2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> Have you seen the IC title match between them Yeah ?


I struggle to remember any Hart/Flair that isn't the iron man or Souled Out 98. I think I would have watched a few more on the 92 & 93 yearbooks but I have no recollection of them. If one was bad I probably would remember it though, so I'm assuming I thought they were all just 'OK' or 'pretty good'.



Starbuck said:


> I don't know who these people are but they sound awesome. They should post in here more often.


Yeah we need more talk about HHH. :side: Also he should be on WWE TV more. And why did he never win the US championship? Needs to be fixed. Wait a minute, did he ever hold the WWE title and cruiserweight title at the same time? I say they disband the unified title for a bit and bring back the cruiser belt so he can accomplish that. IDK what they would do with the WHC. Oh of course I do they would GIVE IT TO THA GAAAAAAME



SMITTY said:


> Dusty Rhodes vs Rick Rude Beach Blast 1993


I remember it being OK, maybe good, but 93 WCW just has a motherload of matches that should have been so much better than they were. Dustin, Rude, Flair, Windham....something wrong was happening. Best Rude/Dustin match that year is damn good IIRC, but I don't remember which one that is (they have 3, I think, and I'm pretty sure the best one wasn't the iron man). They had their truly awesome match on 5/30/92, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll probably check it out when the network comes out 

Honestly I predict that most of my time on the network will be spent watching some old WCW gems :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm pretty pumped for EC this Sunday since I just got through an extremely stressful week, this is the last PPV I'll be ordering for a while (DAT NETWORK), and I'm expecting two *great* matches. Bring on Sunday!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah we need more talk about HHH. :side: Also he should be on WWE TV more. And why did he never win the US championship? Needs to be fixed. Wait a minute, did he ever hold the WWE title and cruiserweight title at the same time? I say they disband the unified title for a bit and bring back the cruiser belt so he can accomplish that. IDK what they would do with the WHC. Oh of course I do they would GIVE IT TO THA GAAAAAAME.


The fact that he didn't win the US Championship is clear evidence of him being held back. Disgraceful behaviour. He has held the WWE and cruiserweight titles at the same time actually. DA GAME is such a heavyweight that any title other than the WWE/World title is a cruiserweight title to him. Remember when he was WWF Champion and Crusierweight champion at the same time while Austin was his sidekick and the other tag team champion. The glory days. TRIPLE H FOR CHAMP 2014 PLZ.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not sure if this has been posted, but WWE.com did a Best Antonio Cesaro Matches List. 



Spoiler:  CESARO



#8 Cesaro vs. Dolph Ziggler (WWE Superstars; Aug. 30, 2013)
#7 Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston – U.S. Championship Match (WWE Main Event; May 1, 2013)
#6 The Real Americans vs. Sheamus & Christian (Raw; Feb. 10, 2014)
#5 Cesaro vs. William Regal (WWE NXT; Dec. 25, 2013)
#4 Cesaro vs. Randy Orton (SmackDown, Feb.14, 2014)
#3 Cesaro vs. Daniel Bryan (Raw; July 22, 2013)
#2 Cesaro vs. John Cena (Raw; Feb. 17, 2014)
#1 Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn – 2 out of 3 Falls Match (WWE NXT; August 21, 2013)



Haven't seen 8, 7, or 5 myself


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Would switch 4 and 5 but that list is actually pretty good 

get on the Regal match ASAP


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me, the best Cesaro matches:

1. Vs Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls
2. Vs William Regal NXT
3. Vs John Cena Raw
4. Vs Daniel Bryan Raw
5. Real Americans vs Ginger Force 5


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Off topic, but why do you call Sheamus & Christian Ginger Force? Christian's hair seems to be a dirty blonde.

Back on topic, can anyone give me some Benoit matches. I don't care if I've seen them, just give me some, please.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Benoit vs Finlay JD 2006


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Benoit vs. Angle RR03 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Off topic, but why do you call Sheamus & Christian Ginger Force? Christian's hair seems to be a dirty blonde.
> 
> Back on topic, can anyone give me some Benoit matches. I don't care if I've seen them, just give me some, please.



Christian dyes his hair blonde, he's a day walker, a half ginger.

Benoit vs Finlay JD 2006
Benoit vs Regal No Mercy 2006
Benoit vs Eddie Vengeance 2003
Benoit vs Eddie Best of Super Juniors 1996
Benoit vs Eddie Nitro 1995 (GOAT sub 10 minute match)
Benoit vs Orton Smackdown 1/16/06 (Best of 7 Series)
Benoit vs Austin Smackdown 2001
Benoit vs Austin Raw 2001
Benoit vs Orton NHB Smackdown 1/27/06
Benoit vs The Rock Fully Loaded 2000
Benoit vs Jericho Ladder Match Royal Rumble 2001
Benoit vs Kane Badd Blood 2004
Benoit vs Regal Velocity 2005
Benoit vs Regal Brian Pillman Memorial Show 2000
Benoit vs Eddie Armageddon 2002
Benoit vs Finlay Smackdown 2005
Benoit vs. The Great Sasuke Super J 1994
Benoit vs Al Snow ECW 1994

All of those matches are classics, worthy of ****1/4+


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Benoit vs. Angle RR03 8*D


God bless your soul, that match is fucking awesome. :rep



SMITTY said:


> Benoit vs Finlay JD 2006


I have not seen that match, but it sounds like gold. Thanks bro.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> God bless your soul, that match is fucking awesome. :rep
> 
> 
> 
> I have not seen that match, but it sounds like gold. Thanks bro.



Surrrre, ignore the guy that just gave you a list of 20 classics that you absolutely should watch if you consider yourself a wrestling fan 

Benoit/Finlay JD2006 is my current favorite match to watch, I've been watching it once every week or so for the past 2 months. It replaced Eddie/Rey SD as my go to match when I'm bored, you shan't be dissapointed.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I haven't seen Benoit/Rock from FL00 in the longest time, but I love that match. Might watch that this weekend.

Wait, I was supposed to watch all the EC matches for the PPV this Sunday. Eh, I'll do that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Your list is great except for that Al Snow match. Assuming its the one on the Benoit DVD. Oh and that Sasuke match too. Fuck that one too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> God bless your soul, that match is fucking awesome. :rep
> 
> 
> 
> I have not seen that match, but it sounds like gold. Thanks bro.


Haven't seen it? your in for a fucking joy ride


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Surrrre, ignore the guy that just gave you a list of 20 classics that you absolutely should watch if you consider yourself a wrestling fan
> 
> Benoit/Finlay JD2006 is my current favorite match to watch, I've been watching it once every week or so for the past 2 months. It replaced Eddie/Rey SD as my go to match when I'm bored, you shan't be dissapointed.


Sorry, I didn't see your list until after I posted, but thanks a lot. Benoit was one of my childhood favorites along with HHH, so this will be very, very enjoyable.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Benoit/Finlay is up there with Eddie/JBL as the most underrated match of all time(out of this thread at least)


Someone in the chatbox linked me to a YT channel with all RAW/SD from 2003-2006 :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

By the way, has anyone else realized that WWE has done the unthinkable with this Sundays EC PPV? They've built a compelling story around an undercard match with no title at stake and caused fans (well, me atleast) to care about said story and outcome. I'm talking of course about Darren vs Titus, an undercard match if there ever was one but one that has me intrigued for sure.


Cal, I'm going to ignore the fact that you somehow just said FUCK the Benoit vs Sasuke Super J match. I can understand not being Gaga over the Al Snow, as that's sorta a personal opinion, but that Sasuke match is AMAZING. What don't you like about it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Titus and Darren are having a match on the PPV?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top Cesaro matches would look something like:

1) vs. Bryan Raw Gauntlet last year
2) vs. Cena Raw last week
3) vs. Ziggler in that match on Main Event last year
4) vs. Orton on SD

Though I'm not as brushed up on Cesaro matches as I should be. Haven't watched any NXT stuff of his.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> By the way, has anyone else realized that WWE has done the unthinkable with this Sundays EC PPV? They've built a compelling story around an undercard match with no title at stake and caused fans (well, me atleast) to care about said story and outcome. I'm talking of course about Darren vs Titus, an undercard match if there ever was one but one that has me intrigued for sure.


WWE will fuck it up. Titus wins via pinfall in 1:01.



Or they continue the storyline with Titus going over, but Young(whose mohawk is fresh asf) looking strong.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

watch Benoit v. MIKE ENOS Souled Out 99 and Benoit/Sting 9/20/99. And the incredible four minutes of Benoit/Eddie 10/20/97.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> watch Benoit v. MIKE ENOS Souled Out 99


:mark:

:mark:





:mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did you watch those short Benoit/Enos matches on TV?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Titus and Darren are having a match on the PPV?



Did you miss that awesome segment where Titus beat and bloodied Darren in the ring after they lost a match? They've built a nice under card angle around it, some nice backstage segments and interviews and of course Darren got some revenge in his own beat down of Titus. I don't have an opinion on Darren, but Titus isn't bad at all and what's more there seems to be real emotion with this angle. Darren, bloodied and beaten asking Titus "why? We were like brothers?!" And Titus responding "You're a loser, and you are turning me into a loser and holding me back!" After viciously stomping and throwing Darren around like a rag doll. I dunno, this is just an old school type story with real emotion and it's an undercard match. We never see WWE show any commitment to doing things like this. I'm sure wwe fucks it up by having Titus squash Darren but until then I remain enthused about this development. Titus can talk, he just needs polish and experience working singles matches. I'm not saying he's gonna be a big star or even that he deserves to be, but the mid and undercard seriously lacks real characters and stories, here's hoping this is the start of something new.

Or, a return to the old.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I prefer this Darren/Titus feud over Eddie/Rey.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Not quite, but I have no more F's despite being a procrastinator of the highest degree.
> 
> I enjoy these Orton matches, so if I'm going to punish myself, it needs to be something that bores the hell out of me. Maybe the next time I'm outta luck, I'll throw on JBL vs Batista from The Bash and get my fix. Or maybe Undertaker vs HHH from King of the Ring. :lol
> 
> I can't even do that with Boss Man vs Undertaker because that match provides the comedy that Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels in a Restholds to a Finish does not.


So I watched Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels from Survivor Series 2007 earlier and at one point Orton gives Michaels the best clothesline he's ever delivered and absolutely KILLS Shawn. I was impressed at Orton turning it on at a big 4 PPV against the supposed best big match worker in WWE history, thought he sold alot of Shawn's offense really well and the RKO that he had at the end of the match + his desperation reaction that sprung him to it were fantastic. I thought Orton's actual RKO's decreased in quality over time a little bit but he brings out some really awesome ones at times.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody and Tyler have seen every match, SI.


Cody has seen WAY more matches then me, but I like to think I have seen my share as well :


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Cal said:


> Your list is great except for that Al Snow match. Assuming its the one on the Benoit DVD. Oh and that Sasuke match too. Fuck that one too.


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, DAMMIT CAL.



The Lady Killer said:


> Cody and Tyler have seen every match, SI.


It's gonna say that on my tombstone.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I suppose once you watch Ants massacre themselves to pretend grenades, you can just about watch anything.





The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao
> 
> Just surprised/thrilled Cody wasn't in an Ant suit when I picked them up for SummerSlam.:woolcock





WOOLCOCK said:


> If he'd have worn that, I guarantee you could been sat near some bloke shouting 'Let's go Brooks' during Punk/Lenar and that bloke would STILL have been less embarrassing.
> 
> Would have only been worthy if McQueen had been invited and bought a life sized swatter to attack Cody with to force him into changing.





The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed. It was bad enough that I had to yell over them during the Punk/Lesnar match, as they're both Punk fans (who happen to like Brock as well, but still). :|





WOOLCOCK said:


> I can just envisage Cody screaming 'PEPSI PLUNGEEEEE' and you looking at him with scorn, the look of utter disdain still evident through your sunglasses.


:lmao

FUCK


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I thought Orton's actual RKO's decreased in quality over time a little bit but he brings out some really awesome ones at times.


Agreed. During his Legend Killer days, Orton got some insane air on his RKOs. The one on Benoit from the WHC match on the RAW after SSlam 04 = :mark: :mark: :mark:

My binge watching of EC matches will start tomorrow! Prepare for a list sometime this weekend


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I prefer this Darren/Titus feud over Eddie/Rey.


Give it time, Darren's son Sem Kwok hasn't been needlessly injected into the feud yet. It will be revealed that Titus is the actual father [[it'll make sense this time because Young likes men and little Sem Kwok is adopted]] and that he wants custody so that the boy may learn from Titus and be the greatest Half-African American Half-South Korean Who Was Adopted by a Different African American wrestler of all time, Sem Kwok O'Neil. Or as he'll be called in NXT in 12 years, Darrus O'Nung. Sem Kwok's mother may also make a surprise comeback from the death 1997 Kane style and reveal that she did not in fact eat a bad pufferfish in 2008.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i watched great american bash 1997 last night, well some of it. 

psychosis vs ultimate dragon was good from memory


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Give it time, Darren's son Sem Kwok hasn't been needlessly injected into the feud yet. It will be revealed that Titus is the actual father [[it'll make sense this time because Young likes men and little Sem Kwok is adopted]] and that he wants custody so that the boy may learn from Titus and be the greatest Half-African American Half-South Korean Who Was Adopted by a Different African American wrestler of all time, Sem Kwok O'Neil. Or as he'll be called in NXT in 12 years, Darrus O'Nung. Sem Kwok's mother may also make a surprise comeback from the death 1997 Kane style and reveal that she did not in fact eat a bad pufferfish in 2008.


*******


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watched some more 2013 today and I have a new addition to my list of 5* matches. I was surprised to say the least because I really liked it the first 2 times but these latest 2 times it just blew me the hell away. Wow. 

I also finally watched Zigs/Rio from Payback. I'm going to write a 4000 word essay, with references, and PM it to SKINS to make up for putting it off for so long 8*D.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm convinced that match is Cena/Bryan.

Yeah1993 won.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm convinced that match is Cena/Bryan.
> 
> Yeah1993 won.


It's actually Zigs/Rio..............

:ti

Btw, does anybody know a decent/safe place to pick up music torrents? I'm sick of using these other places with a million pop ups and probably viruses too. I'm certain there has to be one out there I just have no idea how to find it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well that does it. Now we have a reason to ban Starbuck :side:

It has to be Cena/Bryan. It's the best match last year that doesn't involve the GOAT who you irrationally hate unk2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night 13/11/1993*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well that does it. Now we have a reason to ban Starbuck :side:
> 
> It has to be Cena/Bryan. It's the best match last year that doesn't involve the GOAT who you irrationally hate unk2


You can't ban me I'm a MOD 8*D.

I don't irrationally hate Steve Austin, what the hell are you talking about? Oh, you mean that other guy that likes to think he's Austin? I don't even hate him either. Self harming, entitled crybabies just aren't really my thing is all. 

unk3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A potential new ***** match from 2013 and Cena/Bryan is what jumps to mind ff? I hope it's not that match, or else I just lost more respect for Starbucky (MINUS RESPECT NOW BITCH!!!) . Match is over a whole * away from *****. It ain't even ****.

Watching another documentary for my documentary project. 24 watched so far. One I'm sitting through atm is Barbed Wire, the independent ECW doc.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

King Cal said:


> A potential new ***** match from 2013 and Cena/Bryan is what jumps to mind ff? I hope it's not that match, or else I just lost more respect for Starbucky (MINUS RESPECT NOW BITCH!!!) . Match is over a whole * away from *****. It ain't even ****.
> 
> Watching another documentary for my documentary project. 24 watched so far. One I'm sitting through atm is Barbed Wire, the independent ECW doc.


I didn't know you had respect for me in the first place, ginger. Cena/Bryan needs more Undertaker, then it will be ********. Zigs/Rio/Taker triple threat, ************. 










:taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You started at 1 respect. Then I found out you were a HHH fan. All downhill from there 8*D.

Old Man Undertaker: Still guaranteed to have a better match than everyone else at WM 8*D.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I started at 1 respect right off the bat? Cool. HHH fans >>>>>>>. Deal with it. We automatically get +50,000,000 respect. 

Personally I think he should keep that beard and dye it black. :lmao if they let that version of Taker potentially get in a ring with Sting and Hogan on Raw next week. Retirement home indeed. Throw Vince and Lawler in there and it's a party.



Spoiler: 2013 MOTY



Brock vs. HHH in the Cage

:lelbrock 8*D :trips2


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I started at 1 respect right off the bat? Cool. HHH fans >>>>>>>. Deal with it. We automatically get +50,000,000 respect.
> 
> Personally I think he should keep that beard and dye it black. :lmao if they let that version of Taker potentially get in a ring with Sting and Hogan on Raw next week. Retirement home indeed. Throw Vince and Lawler in there and it's a party.
> 
> ...


Hate that match. Brock being booked to cry for his manager made me mad.

Ya'll can officially count me in on the Cesaro bandwagon after his match with Cena. Such an amazing worker, perhaps the best in the company.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Watched some more 2013 today and I have a new addition to my list of 5* matches. I was surprised to say the least because I really liked it the first 2 times but these latest 2 times it just blew me the hell away. Wow.
> 
> I also finally watched Zigs/Rio from Payback. I'm going to write a 4000 word essay, with references, and PM it to SKINS to make up for putting it off for so long 8*D.


My PM is open love, send it right away 

Wait I dont understand what all the fuss is about ? You have a new 5* that ISNT punk/brock ? On that dvd I only see two options (maybe 3 :ziggler2)

I actually like brock/hhh CAGE alot so I wont laugh


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Spoiler: Starbuck's thoughts on Ziggler/Del Rio



Watched it. Hated it. Fuck off Skins.

:buried



Skins: :ziggler1
Starbuck: :HHH2

Edit: Wait, isn't that additional ***** referring to Punk/Brock? Don't know if Starbuck had it at ***** before-hand, and her thoughts on Taker/Punk are as disappointing as Lesnar/Goldberg, so it can't be that. It's either Punk/Brock or...

... oh no...

... it's not even Brock/HHH ER, is it? It's... it's... 



Spoiler: because I like using spoiler tags



:brock / :hhh2 WRESTLEMANIA 29


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SKINS said:


> My PM is open love, send it right away
> 
> Wait I dont understand what all the fuss is about ? You have a new 5* that ISNT punk/brock ? On that dvd I only see two options (maybe 3 :ziggler2)
> 
> I actually like brock/hhh CAGE alot so I wont laugh


What I liked:

Del Rio's constant bitch face to the fans as they boo him.
Ziggler actually SELLING something rather than bumping like a retard. 
Each kick got harder to watch as the match progressed with Ziggler, AJ and also the commentators putting the concussion over big time. 
There was one moment where Zigs uses the refs legs to get up because he's so disoriented. I liked that. 
His feeble, wild punching was also a great way to sell the head trauma.

What I didn't like:

Ziggler screams like a girl. It's highly distracting. 
I don't feel the story fleshed out as well as it could have. I appreciate what they did but parts of it still felt a bit empty to me. 

The good definitely outweighs the bad however. Great match. That's all you're getting since I have actual 4000 word essays due soon .

I was joking with the Brock/Hunter Cage lol. It's nowhere near 5* come on people I'm not that bad. I enjoyed it a lot when I watched it back though but it's never a 5* match. Comfortably better than WM but not above SS. Anywho, I'm loathe to start that discussion again. I also never said what match it was but somehow it has sparked this guessing game. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Smackdown:

Bryan Vs Swagger to start things off :mark:.

Was ok. Short. Like, 7 minutes. Bryan wins. Yey. LOL at Swagger dropping Bryan shoulder first onto the barricade... but doing it to the wrong arm :lmao.

But it ain't over yet... Vickie and Kane show up and make Bryan Vs CESARO :mark: :mark:.

Great arm work by Cesaro. Horrible shitty commentary as usual though. Urgh. Just fucking URGH. SHUT UP CUNTS.

:lmao at Swagger getting caught stalking Bryan with a chair. He looked so fucking goofy doing it :lmao. He is OUTTA HERE! And so is Zeb because... he argued with the ref about it. THE REFEREE IS BIASED.

These two need a big PPV match sometime this year. Bryan Vs Cesaro, Cena Vs Cesaro... fucking EVERYONE VS CESARO. 

GIANT SWING :mark:. Crazy how a fucking giant swing is one of the most over moves in 2014 lol. Cesaro is just THAT GOOD.

OH SHIT at the fucking knee out of nowhere!!! Bah, Kane gets involved and Chokeslams Bryan . Aside from the shitty wank finish, this match ruled. Duh. Wish they'd just done Bryan Vs Cesaro and not the Swagger match. This + 7 more minutes would have been :mark: FAP FAP.

Oh hey, it's RENEE YOUNG DROOLING OVER ANOTHER WRESTLER. Slut. Oh Christian is there too. Being drooled over. Christian showing more signs of HEEL. Which is a shame because babyface Christian is > just about anyone on the planet.

Wyatt Family Vs Rey, Cody & Goldust. Speaking of, Cody & Goldust are facing RybAxel on the EC pre-show. Meanwhile the fuckins Usos get a tag title shot on the actual show. Buuuuuuuuuuuullshiiiiiiiiit.

UPPERCUT BY HARPER. Sweeet. Followed by a KILLER punch. That might be the answer to the question of "who throws a good punch in current WWE?". Because I couldn't come up with a single fecking name the other night lol. Undertaker and Lawler are head and shoulders and waists and their entire bodies + like a mountain above everyone else but they aren't full time (or in Lawler's case active in WWE atm). Everyone else flat out sucks and the people who might have good punches are actually doing slaps and uppercuts. But Harper just threw that awesome punch so yey. Hope he does more.

Golust FIP :mark:. He gets mauled and its awesome apart from the GATOR ROLL by Harper, which just looks awful lol.

Hot tag to Cody! Quick tag to Rey who looks great for a change and HOLY MOTHERFUCKING SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME :mark:. Also, Rey is dead. DEAD. Killed by a big boot from Harper. RIP Rey Mysterio.

DAMN at that bear hug from the ginger one. Match turned into a Rey FIP :mark:. Love tag matches that give us multiple FIP segments. Especially when they both rule :mark:.

Goldust comes in off the hot tag this time and fuck me what a super finishing stretch. Everyone fucking brings it :mark:. 2014 rolling out those fucking great tag matches already :mark:.

Wyatt's win. My god I am so fucking HYPED for EC 6 man tag more than ever now. Someone PLEASE explain to me how the fucking Usos not only get on the main EC card but get a tag title shot, while Cody & Goldust are stuck on the shitting pre-show.

Dance off? Fuck off.

Ziggler Vs Titus. Hmmm... ok. I'll give it a go. Shall be amusing to see Ziggler getting BURRIED once more 8*D.

ZIGGLER WINS? THE FUCK?  Darren distracted Titus by blowing his whistle. EEWWWWW.

Uso Vs Outlaw. Skip.

Main event time :mark:. Sheamus Vs Christian :mark:. They've had a bunch of matches in the past and honestly... they never really did too well. While I like Sheamus as a face, heel Christian didn't mix well with Sheamus. Would have liked the roles to have been reversed for this match, but maybe a more AGGRESSIVE heel Christian here will be better than the cowardly heel Christian from 2011. Fuck me it was THAT long ago?

Match starts off slow with Sheamus running over Christian with shoulder blocks and Christian getting frustrated. So Christian SLAPS Sheamus in the face 3 times and Sheamus decides to stop playing around and SHIT IS ON MOTHERFUCKERS :mark:.

:mark: at the uhhh... Samoan Roll (?) on the floor. Seriously, the fuck is that move called?

HEY GUYS ORTON HAS BEEN IN 5 CHAMBER MATCHES AND NEVER WON. I think my eye is twitching.

:mark: Sheamus blocks the big slap that Christian does when he slides out of the ring :mark:. 

Christian is fucking BRINGING IT :mark:. DANGEROUS CHRISTIAN :mark:. Shades of DREW MCINTYRE with the arm attack on Sheamus, only using the steel in the barricade rather than the steel under the ring. Little odd to see 2 matches on the same show targeting the same limb (well technically 3 since Bryan had 2 matches), but it makes sense in BOTH matches so I'm cool with it. Bryan had his arm mauled on Raw so it was smart to work it over here, and Sheamus just returned from shoulder surgery last month so again smart. Still weird too to see Christian being the one to work over the arm after 50% of his ECW 09 run was build around his arm getting destroyed every week lol. But the guy is great at it :mark:.

DANGEROUS CHRISTIAN Vs Babyface Sheamus is infinitely better than cowardly Christian Vs Babyface Sheamus .

Tornado DDT out of the corner modified to injure the arm instead :mark:.

Christian finally hitting that sliding punch :mark:.

Actual tornado DDT... COUNTERED INTO THE IRISH CURSE BACKBREAKER :mark:. Thought was a little shitty that Sheamus used his BAD ARM to do it, but he continues to sell the shit out of it afterwards at least so that's something.

WHITE NOISE. SHEAMUS WINS. Match was fucking great. Finally, Christian and Sheamus have a great match together . Then just as the show ends... Christian shoves Sheamus off the ropes!



None spoiler SD review: OMG FUCKING AWESOME SHOW AGAIN!!!! :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Too many smilies. I couldn't read it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I change them all to HHH smileys would that help?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Sure but I still won't read it. 

:trips3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

buried by Starbucky


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Been watching some BIG DADDY V/VISCERA!~ matches.

*John Cena vs Viscera* - Really fun match, simple story with Cena being the obvious underdog and Viscera consistently cutting off Cena's comebacks. The AA at the end was :mark: That was Viscera's first match I ha watched in years, had no idea he had moves like spinning wheel kick in his moveset, you can only imagine my reaction..

*Viscera vs Chris Benoit* - Chris Benoit vs a giant in a beat the clock match, you just know it's gonna rule. Similar match to Benoit/Viscera, only with Benoit being the better underdog. Loved the crossface at the end, Viscera looked he was legit choked out.

*Viscera vs Simon Dean* - Dean's pre-match promo was hilarious. Pretty good squash between two unique gimmicks.

*Big Daddy V vs Colin Delaney* - "OMG... OMG... Somebody might wanna call Colin's mother and tell her he might never come home.. ever!". The match was what you'd expect. Squash, but a fun one. Colin is a good bumper. 

*Big Daddy V vs CM Punk -* The match ended after two minutes in a DQ. Disappointing.

I know about the Kane/Viscera match that was talked about here not too long ago. More recommendations, please? Most preferably during his Loving Machine/Big Daddy V days.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big Daddy V Vs Undertaker from SD in 2008. *think* they had a couple during a short time period, but the one I'm mainly thinking of is on Undertaker's deadliest matches DVD.

Oh, and Vs Shelton Benjamin from NYR 06!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Congrats to Starbuck for finally watching Ziggler/Del Rio. Other than SKINS, I recall a few times bothering you to watch that match. 8*D Agreed with your thoughts, specifically on Ziggler's selling. He's a good bumper but I can't recall many good selling performances from him, but in that Payback match his selling of the concussion was brilliant and he played a great underdog.


King Cal said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think I'll have to watch that main-event, after very much enjoying Christian/Bryan from RAW and Christian/Swagger from a few weeks back. Christian returns and is immediately back to great form.. let's enjoy this while we can before he gets injured again lol.

From a character standpoint he's much better as a heel, don't think that can be argued. He's bland as a face character because WWE give him nothing to work with and just send him out to wrestle matches without any direction, but as a heel he usually gets more direction with mic time and he's more interesting because of it. As a worker I really enjoy him in both roles so I don't mind. 2004, 2005, his heel work in TNA, and feud with Orton in 2011 shows that Christian is a great worker as a heel too.



Starbuck said:


> Too many smilies. I couldn't read it.


Standard Cal review these days. All the extra smileys makes it more enjoyable to read. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The BIG VIS matches with Cena and Benoit are both good.



Starbuck said:


> *Ziggler screams like a girl. It's highly distracting.*


That's one big problem with him that's out of his control. He just doesn't have the voice to be yelling, whether it's selling or punching.

I watched a match he had with Orton from the dark days of late 2012 and he tried to be more intense and yell but it was horrible, he should never try doing it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another must watch tag upload from me:

*The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88)*

_Air Date: 5/14/88 Tape Date: 4/26/88_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Another must watch tag upload from me:
> 
> *The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88)*
> 
> _Air Date: 5/14/88 Tape Date: 4/26/88_



Zep you just made my day with those two uploads thank you. On Steve Austin's podcast with Cornette, Jim said that even though the Express/Rock n Roll feud was so much more heated and legendary, some of the matches the Express has with the Fantastics were even better than the best Rock n Roll matches. I'm excited to see this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch HHH's matches from No Mercy 2007 for the seventeen-millionth time.

THREE HHH MATCHES IN ONE NIGHT :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Chicago fans actually went fucking APESHIT for THE GAME.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> What I liked:
> 
> Del Rio's constant bitch face to the fans as they boo him.
> Ziggler actually SELLING something rather than bumping like a retard.
> ...


:kobe6 finally


Maybe we will try and get you to watch their mitb match, it may take you another year :


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No real need to sit through the MITB match. It's the PB match but without the good parts. They try to do the exact same match but it doesn't have the same effect.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> About to watch HHH's matches from No Mercy 2007 for the seventeen-millionth time.
> 
> THREE HHH MATCHES IN ONE NIGHT :mark: :mark: :mark:.
> 
> Chicago fans actually went fucking APESHIT for THE GAME.



Bret Harts 3 matches at KotR 1993>all 

Seriously, he has a DAMN good match with Razor, like ***3/4, then a ***** classic with Perfect, then rounds it out with a ****1/4 match with Bam Bam, which is one of my favorite big man-little man stories. I don't know how anyone will ever top that. Even if you aren't as high on all of those matches like I am, no one can honestly say that they weren't all REALLY good matches.

Isn't NM 2007 the LMS match between Orton and Trips? That's the only match of theirs that I like. Really, really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for both Razor and Bigelow matches, ***** for the Perfect match.
****1/4 for the Orton LMS match... and around ** for the other 2.

Bret > HHH .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea not as good, but still good IMO, they try and work the same formula but Ziggler is healthy this time so its a bit weird, but again still good


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> *** for both Razor and Bigelow matches, ***** for the Perfect match.
> ****1/4 for the Orton LMS match... and around ** for the other 2.
> 
> Bret > HHH .




Cal, you need to rewatch the Bigelow match at some point, I've seen you post that rating before. I didn't like it then, I certainly don't like it now. How can you think that match is merely "ok-good"? Bam Bam said in his shoot that it was the best match of his career! 

Come on mister, you know you want to watch it

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ns9f_kotr93-final-bret-hart-v-bam-bam-bi_fun

Ps. You should rewatch the Razor match while you're at it, I think you're sleeping on that one as well

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5m1mh_bret-hart-vs-razor-ramon-king-of-th_news


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> His feeble, wild punching was also a great way to sell the head trauma.


Feeble punching? Are you sure he doesn't have head trauma in every match 8*D?

HHH-Orton to start off No Mercy is actually criminally underrated. It has no finishers and it's not the flashiest match, but it's a fresh breath of air away from a main event style that's essentially false finish after false finish, rinse and repeat. Orton's mannerisms were on point in this one, and at one point HHH delivers a stiff back of the neck clothesline on Orton which looks like it legit fucked Orton up a little bit. 

Actually, Orton's selling overall in the match is great. At the beginning of the match he takes a high knee from HHH and sells it better than anybody I've ever seen, kind of like how Orton used to sell sweet chin music. There's a whole bunch of Flair homages used in succession by Haitch that were pretty cool too. I think because it was a WWE title match that we've been conditioned to expect a whole bunch of finishers and near falls and that wasn't the case here, it was awesome. +1 for GAME winning his 11th world championship too :mark:.

**** 1/4* for it, onto the short Umaga match that I always liked.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH > Bret and I'm not even Evan/HHH/Starbuck :

I've never seen Orton/HHH LMS should change that


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bigelow had at least 2 better matches off the top of my head in WWE; Vs 123 Kid during the build to RR 95, and the tag at RR 95 w/Tatanka Vs Kid & BOB HOLLY. Honestly never got into the Bam Bam/Bret matches, be it the KOTR match or any of the others. Always solid but never anything special imo. Same with Bigelow/Undertaker. Fun to watch but never what they should have been given the talent of everyone involved.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Feeble punching? Are you sure he doesn't have head trauma in every match 8*D?
> 
> HHH-Orton to start off No Mercy is actually criminally underrated. It has no finishers and it's not the flashiest match, but it's a fresh breath of air away from a main event style that's essentially false finish after false finish, rinse and repeat. Orton's mannerisms were on point in this one, and at one point HHH delivers a stiff back of the neck clothesline on Orton which looks like it legit fucked Orton up a little bit.
> 
> ...




I won't disagree that Orton, when motivated, can be a tremendous seller. He possesses the greatest selling of SCM ever, but he also sells knockout blows to the head better than any wrestler ever. His stagger is top notch. Hell, he just sold Cesaros swing better than anyone yet in their Smackdown match together.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I prefer Orton/Trips from the 05 Rumble to their LMS match. Orton's concussion selling at the ed of that match is phenomenal. Their best match by quite a bit for me. To be fair though, it has been ages since I watched either match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Cal said:


> Bigelow had at least 2 better matches off the top of my head in WWE; Vs 123 Kid during the build to RR 95, and the tag at RR 95 w/Tatanka Vs Kid & BOB HOLLY. Honestly never got into the Bam Bam/Bret matches, be it the KOTR match or any of the others. Always solid but never anything special imo. Same with Bigelow/Undertaker. Fun to watch but never what they should have been given the talent of everyone involved.





I was gonna say you can check out this one Bret/Bam Bam match in Spain from Bret's set that's awesome, but it sounds like you've seen them all and it's just not your thing. Oh well, I tried. I just love the old school under dog feel of them. Some would call them formulaic, and they wouldn't be wrong, but some formulas are classics for a reason, like the Southern Hot Tag formula. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Bret takes the classic structure of a big man-little man match but executes it absolutely to perfection.

Then again one of the reasons I REALLY love Bret/Diesel SVS 1995 is that they took the big man-little man formula and turned it on its head. Bret laying a vicious beating on Diesel while some how remaining a face was a work of art. Easily, easily Diesels best match, smokes their RR 1996 match which I also like a great deal.

Edit-

Just thinking about it, did Diesel really only have 5 really good-GREAT matches while in WWE?

1. Vs Bret SVS 1995
2. w/HBK vs Razor/Kid Action Zone 1994
3. Vs Bret Royal Rumble 1996
4. Vs Taker WM 12
5. Vs HBK IYH GFBE 1996


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Diesel RR 95 > SVS 95. Have em both at ****1/2 though. Diesel's top 2 matches, rounded out with WM 12 Vs Undertaker as his top 3. Then Vs Bret KOTR 94 for his top 4. 5th best... including tags, would be the Action Zone Clique Tag. Singles... not sure.

Nice to see some more love for HHH/Orton RR 05 . I still prefer their LMS, but RR match is clearly their 2nd best match, with the Raw LMS being third and the rest being utter shite.

Just watched Barbed Wire: Unauthorised Story ECW documentary. Liked it more this time compared to first watch, but it isn't even in the same league as WWE's Rise + Fall of ECW documentary.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay so at just 6 minutes in length, HHH-Umaga fucking RULES.

So for those who haven't seen it, Umaga comes into this as a fresh man while HHH is wrestling his second match of the night. How does HHH integrate that into the match exactly? He gets TWO MOVES OF OFFENSE IN THE ENTIRE MATCH. Yes, you read that correctly, as a majority of the match features HHH getting his ribs royally fucked up by Umaga until HHH is able to use his wits to gain a victory and somehow escape. Top notch selling here by Hunter of Umaga's power, as he attempts most of his moveset only to be no-sold by Umaga and STIFFED a bunch of times. Umaga kicks HHH in the chest at the beginning of the match and it just rings through the arena, great offense that reminded me a little bit like the other all time great big men like Vader. 

It was all about HHH outsmarting Umaga ALA the Eugene match, and baiting Umaga in to make mistakes so that he could land the knockout blow, and in just 6 minutes they managed to do more than most guys can in 20. So we have had two WWE title matches in one night so far and both of them stray away from the typical WWE main event style formula. **** 1/2*, and probably better than their Cyber Sunday match which aims towards more of the WWE PROP style street fight.

GAME is ballin' out :mark:.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> *The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88)*


That was removed from Dailymotion as well, so tremendous to see it get re-upped for the masses. FWIW, it's my current pick for best US tag match of all time. Everything clicks superbly and it's just the epitome of the southern tag formula style I adore in the better worked tags.

Also, the Mantell/Cobra vs Eaton/Sweet Brow Sugar tag from 7/19/82 is on youtube as well now, going by a link someone posted in here last week. Another must watch tag, though well below the MX/Fantastics tag.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Okay so at just 6 minutes in length, HHH-Umaga fucking RULES.
> 
> So for those who haven't seen it, Umaga comes into this as a fresh man while HHH is wrestling his second match of the night. How does HHH integrate that into the match exactly? He gets TWO MOVES OF OFFENSE IN THE ENTIRE MATCH. Yes, you read that correctly, as a majority of the match features HHH getting his ribs royally fucked up by Umaga until HHH is able to use his wits to gain a victory and somehow escape. Top notch selling here by Hunter of Umaga's power, as he attempts most of his moveset only to be no-sold by Umaga and STIFFED a bunch of times. Umaga kicks HHH in the chest at the beginning of the match and it just rings through the arena, great offense that reminded me a little bit like the other all time great big men like Vader.
> 
> ...


I like that Cyber Sunday Street Fight 

One of the few Game matches since 2005 that I would consider watching again. He just does absolutely nothing for me for the most part, but that Street Fight was bossy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the Cyber Sunday street fight. It's just not unique and it doesn't deviate from alot of other hardcore bouts, whereas I feel the No Mercy match is pretty damn unique for a PPV WWE title match.

LAST MAN STANDING TIME. THE HHH PROMO BEFORE THE MATCH :mark::mark::mark:.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I can't remember Umaga/HHH No Mercy match really at all, but the idea of HHH winning it in two moves turns me off instantly, and sounds like a vastly inferior and even more unbelievable version of Brock/Cena.

Again though, can't really recall it at all. The CS match I remember being good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The idea is that HHH creates his offense in the match not with his own will, but rather through openings that he finds in Umaga's stupidity, the idea example being when he baits Umaga into propelling himself outside of the ring.

LMS is just DAMN. Fucking straight up WAR :mark:.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton/HHH from NM is definetely their best match together, ****1/4 I absolutely loved that match. HHH/Umaga from Cyber Sunday was very good too from what I can remember


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal do we agree on anything :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> For me, the best Cesaro matches:
> 
> 1. Vs Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls
> 2. Vs William Regal NXT
> ...


I like you for liking that match. It wouldn't make Cesaro's top 5 for me but it's damn good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/HHH NM 07 LMS is regarded as their best match for a reason. Excellent stuff and even though it went down a bit last time I watched it (which was a year ago I think), it's still far and away their best. ***3/4 for it.



> The idea is that HHH creates his offense in the match not with his own will, but rather through openings that he finds in Umaga's stupidity, the idea example being when he baits Umaga into propelling himself outside of the ring.


It's only 6 minutes, right? I'll give it a watch some time today.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could someone link HHH/Orton NM LMS ? Cant find it


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> I like you for liking that match. It wouldn't make Cesaro's top 5 for me but it's damn good.


Funny because I'd actually have that match even higher. I absolutely loved it. Christian as the FIP, Cesaro and Sheamus beating seven shades of shit out of each other, great action throughout and an awesome finishing stretch. There is literally nothing I can think of that I dislike about that match. My top five for Cesaro would be the same as Cactus Jack's but with 3 and 5 switching places.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No sold like a fucking jobber


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> No sold like a fucking jobber


http://www.veoh.com/watch/v1305860jbgT66Wj

Couldn't find a youtube or dm link but this one seems to be decent quality


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wilberforce said:


> Funny because I'd actually have that match even higher. I absolutely loved it. Christian as the FIP, Cesaro and Sheamus beating seven shades of shit out of each other, great action throughout and an awesome finishing stretch. There is literally nothing I can think of that I dislike about that match. My top five for Cesaro would be the same as Cactus Jack's but with 3 and 5 switching places.


Agreed that there was not a single thing to dislike about the match. It was perfect for the time it got but I'm not sure I could put it above stuff like Cesaro/Ziggler and Cesaro/Sheamus on Main Event last year. 



SKINS said:


> No sold like a fucking jobber


I looked on dailymotion. Could've sworn it was on there but I couldn't find the full match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SKINS. I think you need a gimmick change to get noticed BROTHER.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Agreed that there was not a single thing to dislike about the match. It was perfect for the time it got but I'm not sure I could put it above stuff like Cesaro/Ziggler and Cesaro/Sheamus on Main Event last year.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked on dailymotion. Could've sworn it was on there but I couldn't find the full match.


Yeah fair enough. His match vs Sheamus is actually one I'd forgotten about and it may actually make his top 5 after a rewatch. Either way, we obviously both agree that the match was great. I just happen to enjoy it more than you. I think by this point Cesaro has convinced everyone that he's one of the absolute best in the ring. I'd still have Bryan above him but that's far from a knock on Cesaro because I firmly believe that by the end of his career Bryan will have a legitimate claim for best ring worker ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> SKINS. I think you need a gimmick change to get noticed BROTHER.


:lmao :lmao I think I'm going to air my grievances via WWE APP


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Evan Stays TRIPPY again"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Could someone link HHH/Orton NM LMS ? Cant find it


x48hci


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> HHH fans >>>>>>>.


C'mon, full stops can be used in multiple different ways. HHH fans........



Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> About to *watch HHH's matches* from No Mercy 2007 *for the seventeen-millionth time*.
> 
> *THREE HHH MATCHES IN ONE NIGHT* :mark: :mark: :mark:.


............even admit they might not have multiple different ways. :side:





[see? That's a great way to use full stops]



SKINS said:


> HHH > Bret


whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????



Cactus Jack said:


> Just thinking about it, did Diesel really only have 5 really good-GREAT matches while in WWE?
> 
> 1. Vs Bret SVS 1995
> 2. w/HBK vs Razor/Kid Action Zone 1994
> ...


To be fair, a wrestler that isn't even good having that many really good matches in two years with a company is actually impressive. I mean Edge spent over a decade getting probably only double that. Not that I'm convinced all of those Nash matches would hold up, I watched the last 7 minutes of the Taker match on the 96 yearbook two years ago and it bored the piss out of me.



I'm gonna watch some Viscera today.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Skins, I looked for a link but couldn't find it, FWIW. Also, there's a thread asking if Dolph would be eligible for the Hall of Fame if he retired right now. Better drop some 411 on those cats.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, a wrestler that isn't even good having that many really good matches in two years with a company is actually impressive. I mean Edge spent over a decade getting probably only double that. Not that I'm convinced all of those Nash matches would hold up, I watched the last 7 minutes of the Taker match on the 96 yearbook two years ago and it bored the piss out of me.


I'll get back to the HHH > Bret claim later/ one day , it was a bit of a joke, but is it really that far fetched ? I need to watch way more or both to get a definite belief


Yea I think Big Sexy is kinda underrated, even I disagree with Naitch the Gawd when he said Nash was a "Zero" in ring. Yes his mobility was very limited, but I thought he was decent, that is a great catalog of matches too have on a repertoire


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not the biggest HHH fan but even I'd comfortably say I would watch his 2003 on repeat before I'd consider rewatching the Bret/HBK ironman match EVER AGAIN. Sorry Yeah.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

HHH/Rock Ironman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HBK/Bret Ironman therefore Trips is better than Bret and if anyone tries to argue I'll pop my eardrums and tell you to fuck off.

In all seriousness though, I'm not personally a massive fan of either and I love a lot of HHH's matches but Bret SMOKES him as far as in ring work goes if I'm being objective. It honestly isn't even close.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> C'mon, full stops can be used in multiple different ways. HHH fans........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, those might be the only 5 good-great matches he had his entire career. I cannot remember a single memorable match during his WCW run or his return to the WWE. Feel free to point out some exceptions.



Choke2Death said:


> I'm not the biggest HHH fan but even I'd comfortably say I would watch his 2003 on repeat before I'd consider rewatching the Bret/HBK ironman match EVER AGAIN. Sorry Yeah.



That's just 1 single match, a match where Shawn layed out the first 30 minutes (by far the lamest portion) and Bret took the final 30 minutes (still very dull but far superior to the first 30. HHH had an entire year in his supposed "prime" of straight duds. Bret never had a year approaching that awfulness during his WWE run, and we all know that WCW run doesn't count . Atleast that's what us Hitman fans like to tell ourselves, so don't you dare disagree dammit. Bret's 1997 was pretty lackluster but he still had 3 GREAT matches (Final Four, WM 13, Canadian Stampede 10 man) plus a few other goodies like the Austin street fight.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

lol at this conversation.



Starbuck said:


> I was joking with the Brock/Hunter Cage lol. It's nowhere near 5* *come on people I'm not that bad.*


:lol That was endearing, it actually made me lol. 




Wilberforce said:


> I prefer Orton/Trips from the 05 Rumble to their LMS match. Orton's concussion selling at the ed of that match is phenomenal. Their best match by quite a bit for me. To be fair though, it has been ages since I watched either match.


Totally agree.


Could someone please write what the Smackdown matches are tonight without spoiling them? 

You should probably still put them in spoiler tags, since some people don't even want to know what the matches are. Thanks!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So I think my weekend will be spent watching Smackdown shows from 03, creating a comprehensive list of matches I thought were good, 17 minutes into the first episode of the year and I already have a match listed

Bill Demott vs Chuck Palumbo- SD 1/2/03 

I think this might be just me, but it was a fun brawl imo. Its short too, like 6 or 7 minutes


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD matches:



Spoiler: non spoiler match listing



Bryan Vs Swagger
Bryan Vs Cesaro
Wyatt Family Vs Rey, Cody & Goldust
Emma and Summer Dance Off
Ziggler Vs Titus
Uso #whogivesafuck Vs Road Dogg
Sheamus Vs Christian



Show RULES btw .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not reading the spoilers, but all this positive feedback is making me excited for SmackDown tonight.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, that card for SD looks awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SKINS said:


> I'll get back to the HHH > Bret claim later/ one day , it was a bit of a joke, but is it really that far fetched ?


Honestly....kinda. Trip does literally nothing better. Or even close to better. Or even close to close to close to better. HHH's best performance might be Bret's 100th best. Not even sure where someone could begin saying HHH is better. Hell I don't see how HHH is better than someone like the Big Show let alone Hart.


I don't know what's wrong with Bret's 1997. I know Cody doesn't like it and part of that is the Undertaker matches, but I don't get where the 'lackluster' talk is coming. He was injured for [IDK how much of it] but what matches from the year do people not like? I also don't see his WCW run being really bad. Might not have been good, but there are multiple things in between good and bad.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So has anybody else seen that Demott/Palumbo match? 

Holy fuck Billy Kidman vs Eddie Guerrero is the next match, and then Team Angle vs Benoit is on after that :moyes1


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Btw, Seabs, if you're reading this, I haven't forgotten you. I just haven't sent a PM yet, because I want to make sure I've thought it out before I send it. Otherwise, I'd probably forget stuff.




King Cal said:


> SD matches:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks! Quick question:



Spoiler: spoiler



Do the Shield do anything? Any promos or anything? Seems weird that they wouldn't be on the final go home show, since they're usually all over WWE programming.




@ Yeah, you can argue all of that stuff logically, but it doesn't matter if someone just doesn't have an appreciation for a certain wrestler. I mean if SvS '96 still doesn't do anything for 'skins, then I think that there's just something about Bret that he'll just never fully appreciate.

What's puzzling and funny to me is that H often wrestles a Bret Hart style, but without any of the good stuff. That's why that comment is kind of amusing to me, but not wholly surprising, since I'm getting kind of used to those OTT comments.



Speaking of H, that Umaga/H street fight intrigues me. I think I have that on DVD, so I'm gonna watch that some time soon. How would you guys rate it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: answer



Nope, no Shield, which I too found weird. Bray cut a promo on them before their tag at least


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So one show down in my SD 03 watchings and we have 3 AWESOME matches, 

Palumbo/Demott

Eddie/Kidman

Edge/Benoit vs Team angle 

I'm pretty sure that we get a couple repeats of the tag, this one was a really fun 10 minute sprint even with the DQ ending. Also Matt Hardy vs BORK was a fun squash but not enough to make the list.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

People praising a HHH/Orton match that isn't No Mercy '07 or Raw '09 LMS? I'm gonna have to watch that Rumble '05 match sometime soon.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SKINS said:


> :kobe6 finally
> 
> Maybe we will try and get you to watch their mitb match, it may take you another year :


They had another match? I doubt it will be as good as the Payback one because, you know, Zigs and Rio...



King Cal said:


> No real need to sit through the MITB match. It's the PB match but without the good parts. They try to do the exact same match but it doesn't have the same effect.


Well that sorts that then 8*D.



SKINS said:


> HHH > Bret and I'm not even Evan/HHH/Starbuck :
> 
> I've never seen Orton/HHH LMS should change that


HEY SKINS YOU REALLY OUGHT TO WATCH ORTON/HHH LMS OR ELSE I WILL ETERNALLY BOTHER YOU EVERY TIME I SEE YOU IN THIS THREAD



Yeah1993 said:


> C'mon, full stops can be used in multiple different ways. HHH fans........
> 
> ............even admit they might not have multiple different ways. :side:
> 
> [see? That's a great way to use full stops]


HHH fans......>>>>>> Yeah1992?



LilOlMe said:


> lol at this conversation.
> 
> :lol That was endearing, it actually made me lol.




So what about the Wrestlemania Guest Host? We can talk about it now since WWE announced it themselves. The Hulkster coming back, eh? I'm by no means a Hogan fan but I can't say that I won't mark out when I hear that music hit in the Superdome. That's another one off the bucket list. All we need is Brock back, Taker back, some matches made and suddenly Wrestlemania is looking real good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just downloaded HBK/HHH (Raw, Dec. 2003), gonna watch it for the first time since the airing, lel. But I remember it being their best match together. Almost everything else is a pile of trash. Their Street Fight is just... good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like their HIAC...quite a bit actually. :side: Raw 03, HIAC and SS are all great imo. The rest I'd need to watch again, can't remember much about them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Curious if we'll get an interruption during Hogan's promo from like 3MB or something, just so he can bust out the ol' move set.

Plus Hogan can play a mean air guitar.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for answering, Cal!




Starbuck said:


> *I like their HIAC...quite a bit actually.* :side: Raw 03, HIAC and SS are all great imo. The rest I'd need to watch again, can't remember much about them.


That's actually the best of their series (well, I haven't seen their 3SOH match yet) to me. Not only that, I think that it's a legitimately classic match, but everyone here shits on it. :no: Glad I didn't bother to listen to prevailing opinion on that, and watched it on my own.

I think I gave it **** 1/2.


Really, I've quite liked most of their series together except for SS, which was just "fun." The most disappointing of their matches for me.


----------



## DCR (Aug 9, 2013)

I've built a pretty decent collection recently.

The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane
Ladder Match
Greatest Stars of the 90s
The Jeff Hardy Documentary
Attitude Era
Triple H: King of Kings
History of the IC/WHC/WWE Championship
Best of Monday Nitro

Anyway, I was watching the Attitude Era DVD and they had an old tag buried alive match. Triple H got involved and smashed Show over the back of the neck with the hammer. Not like usual though, legitimately swung for the fences. I still can't wrap my head around it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I tried to give the HIAC match another chance but I just still couldn't get into it at all, especially the last like ten minutes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/HBK RAW 03 should hold up. Other than the SS match, all their other ones are below two stars. Shit.

Bret's 1997 rules. The man completely reinvented himself that year in all aspects. I love the hybrid brawler/technical style he used that year. Would have been WWE wrestler of the year if it wasn't for his brother.

Hogan would make a good host for WM XXX. ONLY a host though. If he's gonna do anything physical, it should be getting his ass kicked by the Real Americans.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I like the HIAC a bit, its about ***1/4-***1/2

It could use about 20 mins less time though :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Good in-ring action on Smackdown today.

RE: HHH/HBK HIAC, why the fuck was that so long anyways? It honestly would have benefited way more by being 15-20 minutes shorter. Didn't it go 50 minutes or something?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> They had another match? I doubt it will be as good as the Payback one because, you know, Zigs and Rio...
> 
> 
> HEY SKINS YOU REALLY OUGHT TO WATCH ORTON/HHH LMS OR ELSE I WILL ETERNALLY BOTHER YOU EVERY TIME I SEE YOU IN THIS THREAD


Yea they have a few matches, but two on PPVs, their all good but Payback was the cream of the crop. Yea Ive actually never seen any orton/hhh except for a raw match from 2010


IDK hbk/hhh are all a chore to me, raw 03 and raw 96 are good but there rest is meh. ss 02 is a tale of two halves its seems like


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> That's actually the best of their series (well, I haven't seen their 3SOH match yet) to me. Not only that, I think that it's a legitimately classic match, but everyone here shits on it. :no: Glad I didn't bother to listen to prevailing opinion on that, and watched it on my own.
> 
> I think I gave it **** 1/2.
> 
> ...


I never got bored during the HIAC. I wouldn't go that high on it but it's definitely not a DUD for me like is for most in here. Bring the flames. 

The main complaint I see levelled at the SS match is Shawn's lack of selling and I remember somebody saying that it almost felt like 2 matches in 1. That's understandable imo considering it was just meant to be that one match for Shawn, not an entire run, so they went all out and didn't worry about the psychology of a kip up after getting your back destroyed the whole match. I just make sure to remember that any time I go to watch it and it helps considerably.

@SKINS - Both Hunter/Orton LMS are definitely worth checking out. No Mercy and Raw 09. If you have the Best of Raw 09 set it's on there. The rest of their matches aren't really worth talking about although I haven't watched any of them in forever. I doubt my opinion would change though. The NM LMS is the best of the bunch. Talk about a nice surprise. It was supposed to be Cena/Orton and just like that HHH/Orton end up producing that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think WM25 really put a damper on the reputation of HHH/Orton matches. They've had a few decent TV matches throughout the years but yeah, they really knock it out of the park when they work with a Last Man Standing stipulation. Even the One Night Stand match was good until Orton broke his collarbone.

HBK/HHH inside HIAC vs HBK/Bret Ironman... have a hard time deciding what's more boring. Actually, it should be easy because the ironman is restholds galore while the cell match at least features some action even if they go opposite ways in the final minutes with IM becoming good in the end and HIAC being arguably more boring than the first 30 minutes of IM.

I'm not a HULKAMANIAC but I'll definitely mark when that music hits on Monday.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I never got bored during the HIAC. I wouldn't go that high on it but it's definitely not a DUD for me like is for most in here. Bring the flames.
> 
> The main complaint I see levelled at the SS match is Shawn's lack of selling and I remember somebody saying that it almost felt like 2 matches in 1. That's understandable imo considering it was just meant to be that one match for Shawn, not an entire run, so they went all out and didn't worry about the psychology of a kip up after getting your back destroyed the whole match. I just make sure to remember that any time I go to watch it and it helps considerably.


This is what I wrote about the HIAC before:

*Michaels vs. HHH at Badd Blood '04 [HIAC] - **** 1/2.* One of those controversial opinions here, but I adored this. This is another one of HHH's better performances. Don't know why it's looked so down upon. I think the match mirrored exactly what they were going for, and I didn't feel like it was _too_ much of a finisher fest, because it was necessary for the story that they were trying to tell. Most importantly, it's not like either one of them were just kicking out of finishers without much thought. Both were down for quite some time, and just barely were able to keep surviving...and then they'd sell the exhaustion and pain for quite a few minutes after that.

Both men with way too much pride to lose to each other...to the point where it looked like they both might rather just bleed to death instead. I felt the match became more and more engrossing as it went on.



> The main complaint I see levelled at the SS match is Shawn's lack of selling and I remember somebody saying that it almost felt like 2 matches in 1. That's understandable imo considering it was just meant to be that one match for Shawn, not an entire run, so they went all out and didn't worry about the psychology of a kip up after getting your back destroyed the whole match. I just make sure to remember that any time I go to watch it and it helps considerably.


For me it was that I felt they could have told an epic story with Shawn coming back. Instead, they just went with mindless fun. Like you said, though, apparently it was meant to be a one-off, so it makes sense in that way. Still, I had much higher hopes.

As for Hunter/Orton, you're not that high on RR '05? I thought it was really good.

I think that I just have a higher tolerance for so-called "boring" matches that most, because slow moving matches never really bother me if there's something going on there for me to admire, and often times things tend to build up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That isnt my problem with their summerslam match at all. My problem is it felt like two different matches.First half is very good with HHH working Shawn's back really well and laying the ground work, and then after 10-15 mins and it turns into a non-stop EPIC battle of the world encounter. I know that story behind it was it was truly spoke to be Shawn's only match in his return but still


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SS is ****1/2, loved that match :draper2

TT 2004 is coming up on my 04 project, how bad is that one?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ah, the usual HBK/HHH matches discussion. Here's my $0.02:

The HIAC is pretty decent imo. Would say anywhere between ***1/4 and ***1/2. The match is 47 minutes long but honestly I wouldn't have known unless JR didn't say that they were past the 40 minute mark. It didn't feel like it was dragging or anything like that to me.

SS '02 was a match I really enjoyed when I firs saw it. But after some time, I gave it a second watch and it went down for me. The main reason- Shawn no selling the back. It really took me out of it tbh.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Is HHH-Flair in 03 on Raw any good? Haven't seen it in a long time, seem to remember it being quite good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Trips vs HBK series

SS '02 - ****
3SoH - *
Raw '03 - ****1/4
RR '04 - **3/4
Bad Blood '04 - *1/2
TT '04 - ***1/4
Raw '06 - ***

The HIAC just doesn't do it for me but I remember really like the initial SS '02 one. And I really like the selling in the TT '04 one.

Keep in mind I haven't watched these in a while.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> TT 2004 is coming up on my 04 project, how bad is that one?


This is how bad their chemistry was. The Taboo Tuesday match was their only PPV match that did not try to be this grand epic scene. Instead, it focused on Michaels' leg injury which I believe was legit at the time. Despite having the stage set for a really good match, they STILL manage to stink it up by boring us to death. If I were you, I would NO everything except for the main event and Jericho/Benjamin. Orton/Flair is so underappreciated.

Wait a minute. I think Benoit carried somebody to a good match in that PPV too.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just finished watching Smackdown.

Bryan's matches with Swagger and Cesaro were good. Swagger and Cesaro did an great job working Bryan's shoulder and Bryan was playing the babyface underdog well as he always does with his comebacks and selling his injury. Bryan/Cesaro could've been another amazing encounter if it wasn't for the Kane DQ, but what can you do.

Christian/Sheamus was really good with Christian continuing his aggressive nature from his match with Bryan and again playing his "desperate" demeanor well by working on Sheamus's previously injured shoulder from slamming it against the barricade to punching it. Sheamus did a good job selling the injury and the match escalates to some good back and forth action with Sheamus picking up the victory. Really good match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I have done contemplation on my expectations for Wyatts/Shield at EC, and while I certainly understand that not only has the role of fans become product evaluators but as the vast array of knowledge,and examples is available for us to consume on what constitutes a good match fans also become match evaluators as illustrated in a sliver by these threads, but I feel like the match at EC is going to be an extremely rare case where the rating system will need to be put on pause. What I mean is that looking for execution, move spacing, psychology/storytelling, timing, expansive moveset displays and effective false finishes is not something that I think will heighten the interest in this match, I just expect a good ol fashioned physical brawl mixed with some finesse vs power elements, and as long as we get a fight that isn't just going to be used as a vehicle to show to the masses again that Roman Reigns will be the God of wrestling, I will be happy. (though admittedly that is a trepedation I hold) Even though we didnt get Bray/Ambrosse in a live promo face off, this feud has nontheless been extremely captivating and I think all will agree very drawing of attention with what is a perfect amount of tease that just makes the clash that much sweeter. When it isn't 2003 and Michael Cole is putting in genuine effort to put over a program, you know you got something good and as a viewer I certainly agree with Cole about the feeling when these two are in the same ring. This combination is just one of those pairings that captures what I like to think of as the magic of wrestling. Even as a purist, I would just friendly suggest that we give the close analyzation a rest for just this match and just get the popcorn ready so to speak, kick back and take in what unfolds, but alas this is just an opinion and not being one to push agendas, I realize this is all in vein. Feel free to disagree.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That was a very well thought out post man, and I do agree with some points but if the match sucks, im not going to be using the novelty of the match or its good build as an excuse to ignore the flaws in it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so ive been watching some shit lately

i just saw hacksaw jim duggan turn heel and join CANADA :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao best non-Dibiase Duggan match ever


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan put in DAT WORK on SmackDown.

EDIT: Wyatts v Rey/Rhodes bros was really good. I thought it was just kind of there before Goldust tagged out but everything after that was great. Rowan's rag doll bear hug on Rey was bossy as fuck. One of the best uses of the bear hug I can remember seeing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rowan has the best bearhug I've seen.

Shield vs. Faux Luchadores in this week's Main Event is another gem. I can legitimately say that every extended Shield match that has ever occurred is at least three stars. We are all in agreement that purely in terms of match quality, they're the greatest group in WWE history, right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Updated my 'Best Of Sting' list:



> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (No DQ) (TV 9/30/86)
> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (TV 1/6/87)
> Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988
> Sting vs Ric Flair - NWA Clash Of The Champions I
> ...


 Probably finished unless there are any more i should add....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You forgot the other Sting/DDP matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You forgot the other Sting/DDP matches.


Yeah i did think about the one from '98, don't really remember it though. Ill have to rewatch it, thanks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao best non-Dibiase Duggan match ever


Sawyer/Duggan 11/11/85 begs to differ you scoundrel.

That clip is absolutely incredible mind you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jim Duggan vs Goldberg in 2000 is the best thing WCW had, but they screwed it up per usual and gave it away on TV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That the one with Goldberg punching Duggan's CANCER?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Little upload from me:

*The Sandman Entrance - ECW One Night Stand 2005*



Unedited entrance - Includes Metallica's music.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Ryan193 said:


> Is HHH-Flair in 03 on Raw any good? Haven't seen it in a long time, seem to remember it being quite good.


Yes, really good actually. It's pretty short too IIRC, around 10 minutes or so.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Sawyer/Duggan 11/11/85 begs to differ you scoundrel.
> 
> That clip is absolutely incredible mind you.



I was JUST about to post that match when funnyfaces said that. That 1 match makes the cost of the Mid South Blu Ray worth it, I've watched it about 6 times now and it never gets old. There have been ALOT of great, wild and crazy brawls in the history of wrestling, but I think my 2 favorites are that Duggan//Sawyer match, and the Terry Funk/Jerry Lawler No DQ match from Memphis. Those two are pretty much the definition of what I think a good FIGHT should be. Calling them wrestling matches really isn't that accurate. There are very few if any holds or normal wrestling maneuvers, they are smoldering fights to the death and I absolutely love it when one is done right.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Damn, you guys are so right about Shawn's punches. Just watched Taboo Tuesday '04 vs. HHH, and not a single one of Shawn's punches looked like they connected. I feel like I have noticed that lack of connection before, but I think that I just got more caught up in the overuse of all of the chops to get too annoyed about that.

As for the match, it was ***. lol at the ending.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Damn, you guys are so right about Shawn's punches. Just watched Taboo Tuesday '04 vs. HHH, and not a single one of Shawn's punches looked like they connected. I feel like I have noticed that lack of connection before, but I think that I just got more caught up in the overuse of all of the chops to get too annoyed about that.
> 
> As for the match, it was ***. lol at the ending.


I give it *** as well. I love HHH, but he and Shawn tried too hard at being the greatest, most epic rivalry ever. I rate almost all their matches other than SummerSlam ** 1/2 - *** 1/2.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The one Trips/HBK match I refuse to ever rate/criticize is that Taboo Tuesday match. Shawn's knee was absolutely decimated (torn acl, mcl, pcl) and he absolutely shouldn't have been wrestling. He spent the entire day leading up to the match using crutches, he could barely walk. He had to wear the knee brace so tight it was cutting off the flow of blood to his leg. But WWE had made him an option in the fan poll, and when the fans voted him into the match, he said he'd do it because he didn't want to cheat the fans. I think that was gutsy as hell, so even though the match was on the surface nothing special, the fact that he did it at all impresses the hell out of me. He went into surgery to get it fixed Immediately after the match. 

Professional wrestlers are just a different breed. Hell, Taker had the famous Hell in a Cell match with Foley on a broken ankle.

Just finished Smackdown from last night. This was a great show. The Bryan/Real Americans gauntlet was excellent, the 6 man Rhodes/Rey vs Wyatt's tag was really good if a bit overdone, and Sheamus/Christian stole the show with a fantastic match. Curious to see that two matches, well 3 if you count both of DB's matches as separate entities, focused on shoulder work. I won't complain though, as the work done by Swaggee/Cesaro/Sheamus on Christian and Bryan's shoulders was very good and the selling by both, Bryan especially, was spot on. Skipped the dance off for obvious reason. The Zigglee/Titus was match was okay for what it was, but man was Darren overwhelmed on commentary by JBL. I will never understand why Vince enjoys sending guys out to get ripped up on commentary by JBL. Some guys can handle it well but even then, it's really not that entertaining to listen to two guys argue. But when he sends a guy out like Darren who just gets trampled on, all that does is make me the viewer feel uncomfortable. Maybe I'm alone in this regard, but listening to two grown men bicker about story lines instead if calling the match is absolutely maddening.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Some of Shawn's greatest punches ever happen in that cell match, the commentators even take notice of how swelled up his hand was by the end of the match, thought it was absolutely fantastic. Honestly I think when it comes to an overly long match like that, being a huge mark of somebody does a ton of help in your overall enjoyment of the match. 

Watched the buildup to Big Show-HHH from NYR 2006 and now I'm watching the actual match. the sledgehammer underneath the table & HHH calling himself a "regular humanitarian" makes me :lol every single fucking time I see it, it was built off of the idea that HHH has no backup anymore so that he needs to even the score up somehow, this instance being breaking Big Show's hand and working around it.

THE GAME gets criticism, but his ability to isolate a body part is fantastic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Even SummerSlam went down for me on last watch even if I still give it a good rating. Only HBK/HHH match I may hold in high regard at this point is the Raw 2003 one. TT is okay but nothing I'd go out of my way to rewatch. With all due respect to Shawn, he should've just gotten his surgery because the last thing people needed was another HBK/HHH match. I don't get why Benoit got the least amount of votes, though. Even Edge had a higher percentage than him which is baffling.

Planning to watch a football match in a few minutes, once it's over - I'm planning to finally watch Mankind vs HBK from Mind Games once and for all. I've been in a bit of a Foley kick recently, sparked by the fact that I had a school assignment where I'm supposed to write about a common misconception and what better choice than letting people know that wrestling isn't "fake" the way many dismiss it to be? The KOTR HIAC match was my go to for this one!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Didn't know that Shawn was really injured in that TT match, Cactus Jack. That's interesting to know. I liked the vocal agony.


Just watched the Elimination Chamber from NYR '05 again. The chops from Benoit and Jericho were insanely loud.

Orton sold the shit out of those last two clotheslines, especially the one from Triple H. Turned inside out and everything, but it looked very realistic and was so quick and stayed grounded. He even made that "exhausted/hurt but still getting pedigreed" pedigree look nice.

Did Batista call HHH out for not coming to his rescue within the next few weeks? I assume that this was part of what led to Batista turning on HHH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was at a house show a couple of weeks before TT and HBK was supposed to be in a tag match but got "attacked" on his way to the ring and had to be carried to the back, then only showed up for the SUPERKICK finish . Was disappointed since it was supposed to be my first time seeing a HBK match live . BUT HEY AT LEAST THE MAIN EVENT FOR THE SHOW WAS HHH VS ORTON :|.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Didn't know that Shawn was really injured in that TT match, Cactus Jack. That's interesting to know. I liked the vocal agony.
> 
> 
> Just watched the Elimination Chamber from NYR '05 again. The chops from Benoit and Jericho were insanely loud.
> ...


Love that match. The chops were brutal as can get in the WWE. Love how Jericho kind of screeches before each one. The Orton bit at the end was nice IMO. The pre-match confrontation with HHH made the Batista-HHH feud even more imminent. _**** 1/4_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> Did Batista call HHH out for not coming to his rescue within the next few weeks? I assume that this was part of what led to Batista turning on HHH.


Orton brought it up the next night on Raw (or the week after maybe), and it just added more tension to the already building feud between HHH and Batista (note: I fucking LOVED the slow build to their WM match. The episode of Raw built around the two going to kill each other that turned out to be a plan to get HHH out of a title match with Benoit was :mark.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

New Warrior DVD listings:

DISC 1

Warriors Back!

Finding Wrestling

The Blade Runners vs. Perry Jackson & Shawn O’Reilly
UWF • April 11, 1986

Move to WCCW

Dingo Warrior vs. Chris Adams
WCCW • August 8, 1986

Arrival in WWE

Ultimate Warrior vs. Barry Horowitz
Wrestling Challenge • November 7, 1987

Ultimate Warrior vs. Steve Lombardi
Superstars • November 14, 1987

Getting Noticed

Ultimate Warrior vs. Harley Race
Boston, MA • March 5, 1988

Upgrading Warrior

Weasel Suit Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Bobby “The Brain” Heenan
Los Angeles, CA • July 15, 1988

Intercontinental Champion

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. The Honky Tonk Man
SummerSlam • August 29, 1988

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Honky Tonk Man
Philadelphia, PA • December 17, 1988

The Macho Man

WWE Championship and Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Macho Man Randy Savage
Boston, MA • February 11, 1989

Simply Ravishing

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude
SummerSlam • August 28, 1989

Building Momentum

Ultimate Warrior vs. Bob Bradley
Prime Time Wrestling • September 18, 1989

Ultimate Warrior vs. Brian Costello
Prime Time Wrestling • December 25, 1989

Ultimate Warrior confronts Andre on Brother Love Show
Superstars • July 29, 1989

Memories of Andre

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Andre the Giant
Madison Square Garden • October 28, 1989

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Andre the Giant
Saturday Night’s Main Event • November 25, 1989


DISC 2

Leading to Toronto

Ultimate Warrior Promo “Crash the Plane”
Superstars • March 10, 1990

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Mr. Perfect
Madison Square Garden • March 19, 1990

Running to the Ring

The Ultimate Challenge
WWE Championship vs. Intercontinental Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior
WrestleMania VI • April 1, 1990

Responsibilities of the Champion

WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Million $ Man Ted DiBiase
Wrestling Summit • April 13, 1990

WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. “Ravishing” Rick Rude
Saturday Night’s Main Event • July 28, 1990

WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Million $ Man Ted DiBiase
The Main Event • November 23, 1990

WWE Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter
Huntsville, AL • January 7, 1991


DISC 3

New Direction

Steel Cage Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Macho King Randy Savage
Madison Square Garden • January 21, 1991

Ultimate Warrior ends Brother Loves Career
Superstars • March 2, 1991

No Limitations

Career Ending Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Macho King Randy Savage
WrestleMania VII • March 24, 1991

Into the Darkness

Ultimate Warrior on Paul Bearers Funeral Parlour
Superstars • April 13, 1991

Ultimate Warrior vs. The Undertaker
Toronto, ON • June 2, 1991

Returning

Gene Okerlund Interviews Ultimate Warrior and Randy Savage
Superstars • July 25, 1992

Ultimate Maniacs

“Riding on the Edge of a Lightning Bolt”
Superstars • November 14, 1992

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Money Inc. vs. Ultimate Warrior & Macho Man Randy Savage
Saturday Night’s Main Event • November 14, 1992

Reestablish

“Faster Than a Cheetah”
RAW • March 11, 1996

Ultimate Warrior vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
WrestleMania XII • March 31, 1996

Warrior Confronts Goldust
RAW • April 8, 1996

Ultimate Warrior Returns!

Vince McMahon Interviews Jerry “The King” Lawler and Ultimate Warrior
RAW • June 10, 1996

Ultimate Warrior vs. Jerry the King Lawler
King of the Ring • June 23, 1996

Going to WCW

Ultimate Warrior Interrupts Hollywood Hogan
Nitro • August 17 1998

Replusive

Ultimate Warrior Promo
Nitro • October 26, 1998

The Right Story


BLURAY EXTRAS

Dingo Warrior vs. Matt Bourne
WCCW • October 24, 1986

Ultimate Warrior & The British Bulldogs vs. Demolition & Mr Fuji
Maple Leaf Gardens • July 24, 1988

Intercontinental Championship Match
Ultimate Warrior vs. Dino Bravo
The Main Event • February 23, 1990

WrestleMania VII Contract Signing
Road to WrestleMania VII • March 17, 1991

Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter
WrestleFest • March 30, 1991

Intercontinental Championship Match
Goldust vs. Ultimate Warrior
In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies • April 28, 1996


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Ultimate Warrior vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
> WrestleMania XII • March 31, 1996


Got the go ahead then.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

King Cal said:


> New Warrior DVD listings
> 
> Intercontinental Championship Match
> Goldust vs. Ultimate Warrior
> In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies • April 28, 1996


This wasn't even a match, really.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Putting together a best of 2014 set (for myself, I ain't be selling discs no more). Just got done with the Raw part, wondering if I've missed anything:










Image because I'm too lazy to C&P every match lol. These are matches that a) I think are genuinely good, or b) I enjoyed in some way. Anything I'm missing/should check out? (YES CODY I KNOW THAT WYATT/MEXICAN STEREOTYPE MATCH IS ONE, I'M GONNA WATCH IT BEFORE I DECIDE TO ADD IT TO THE COMP)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That looks pretty complete to me,

Warrior set discs 2 and 3 don't look half bad, atleast they included the matches with Rude and Savage, which are unquestionably his best.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe I forgot about Duggan/Sawyer. I even remember discussing that match with the both of you. Shame on me :henry1

Well C2D, it's finally going on. I'm gonna go through 2005. Finished the first RAW from that year and I really liked half of that show. Benoit/Batista is the MOTN. Love how Batista sold his arm after the finish. Benoit is Benoit. Jericho/Edge was loads of fun too. And then that Hassan/Lawler-Ross debate :lenny. Yeah, Hassan rules. First half of the show was spectacular. Then the second half of the show went to total shit until the main event. As you would expect, I'm not a fan of Orton/HHH, but I kinda liked Orton's comeback sequence here. Triple H's control segment was boring, but he did do a decent job targeting the ribs, which ended up just being completely ignored. I rolled my eyes when the ending went haywire though.

Now I'm watching the first Smackdown of 2005. Rey/Eddie was so much fun. Even better than I remember it being. Eddie Guerrero's reenactment of Rey giving him the title and playing dead was hilarious. The rest of this show looks pretty awful. Did anyone actually like Smackdown in 2005?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I stopped watching in Mid 05 because outside of like, 3 things I hated everything. Raw and SD. Eddie/Rey, Undertaker/Orton and... I dunno probably something else.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Same thing happened to me, except Hardy/Edge and Taker/Orton were the only two things I enjoyed. Stopped watching until the GOAT did the shoot heard around the world.

:lmao at Kurt Angle's everything with Amy Weber and Brian Black. Was this the year that Roderick Strong wrestled Angle in an invitational? I remember that was kinda fun. LOL at Daniel Puder. Even more LOL at Kenzo Suzuki.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Where does everybody find matches? Not trying to be annoying or anything, just that Youtube takes most down.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YouTube has most things I look for up atm. I expect them to be taken down soon but as it is, they are available for the most part. Alternatively, I use XWT obviously.



King Cal said:


> Putting together a best of 2014 set (for myself, I ain't be selling discs no more). Just got done with the Raw part, wondering if I've missed anything:
> Image because I'm too lazy to C&P every match lol. These are matches that a) I think are genuinely good, or b) I enjoyed in some way. Anything I'm missing/should check out? (YES CODY I KNOW THAT WYATT/MEXICAN STEREOTYPE MATCH IS ONE, I'M GONNA WATCH IT BEFORE I DECIDE TO ADD IT TO THE COMP)


I think Orton/Cena from Raw 10/2 is better than half that list.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Now I'm watching the first Smackdown of 2005. Rey/Eddie was so much fun. Even better than I remember it being. Eddie Guerrero's reenactment of Rey giving him the title and playing dead was hilarious. The rest of this show looks pretty awful. Did anyone actually like Smackdown in 2005?


Smackdown in the first couple of months is pretty dull although JBL does make it fun at times, but it really picks up after the draft. Not exactly hard to understand considering Benoit moved over.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You also thought Cena/Orton from the RR was something more than pure shite, so yeah .


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> YouTube has most things I look for up atm. I expect them to be taken down soon but as it is, they are available for the most part. Alternatively, I use* XWT* obviously.


Never heard of it, I'll look it up.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

And it was, dammit! 

Still, I don't like it as much after seeing the house show match from MSG which was basically the same match minus the stolen finishers. That Raw match, though... is awesome!



> Never heard of it, I'll look it up.


But registrations are closed atm I think.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Could be a ***** classic and I will never sit through it .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which, in turn, makes your list invalid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not really. Just means it could potentially be missing ONE match .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another Dubya-C-Dubya upload from me: 

*Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko vs. Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Clash 17: 11/19/91) *

WCW Clash of The Champions 17


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I loved the *Summerslam '03 EC!* I've read comments here that weren't too high on it, but it's almost certainly my second favorite of the ones that I've seen.

I've also read high praise of SvS '02 EC, but I was bored to death by it. Definitely one of my least favorites that I've seen. Felt like nothing of note happened for a good twenty minutes.

Summerslam '03 was just sheer fun. Goldberg destroying shit was awesome, and I didn't mind Nash doing some destruction and then leaving. And then doing destruction again, lol. I thought it was the perfect use for him, really.

I have to say, I thought that H was brilliant in this. From him giving Goldberg the "oh, please, I'm so unaffected" face in the beginning, to talking junk when he was supposed to be out of pod, to straight up fear complete with the swallowing hard when he knew that it was just him and Goldberg. Really thought it was a brilliant, multi-faceted, heel performance throughout.

I also kind of like he how he was booked to not do shit until the very end. It went along with the whole vibe and storyline of the whole thing.

Flair's shenanigans were funny, and Orton, Jericho, and HBK took some harsh looking shit from Goldberg. 

Really, the whole thing just flew right by, and I thought it had the great combo of being a fun, breezy, watch, while also having a nice storyline throughout it. H & Goldberg really were pitch perfect in this.


**** 1/2, and shocked that more people aren't so high on it.



_ETA:_ Cal, gtg, but I'm gonna read & respond to your post later! Thanks to you & everyone else for your answers regarding Batista earlier, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I rambled on that match not too long ago:



Spoiler: insane ramblings of a crazy cunt



*Triple H Vs Randy Orton Vs Goldberg Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kevin Nash Vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match*

Nash looks BADASS with his hair short and blonde/white lol. He lost a hair match to Jericho, as he needed to cut it for his upcoming part in the PUNISHER film (which is fucking awesome btw and hugely underrated. Get the extended version if you wanna check it out. Only the regular version was released outside of the US I think so I had to import it. Bluray versions anywhere are the regular version so fuck HD in this case)

Jericho and HBK to start things off!

Huge GOLDBERG chants, which confuse me because Ryback isn't in this match 8*D.

It was only 3 minutes between entrances in this one, right?

Orton is next out, and he's there to make sure HHH leaves with the belt!

:lmao Nash is next out and Orton BOTCHES GOING FACE FIRST INTO THE CHAMBER WALL :lmao. Seriously, Nash grabs his head, tries to throw him into the wall and Orton just falls down instead :lmao.

Everything before Nash came in was fine, nothing noteworthy as seen by the fact I wrote NOTHING lol, but fine nonetheless. However with BIG DADDY NASH in the match we can get someone coming in and crushing people, which is always cool to see in a match like this.

OMG NASH JUST ATTACKED SHAWN~!

SUPERKICK TO NASH~! Jericho falls into the cover and Nash is gone! LOLOLOL!!!

Next out is HHH! But before he can escape his pod, HBK superkicks him to hell! And it was pretty much just done because HHH is INJURED (tore his penis or something).

NASH gets up finally, and decides to Powerbomb everyone he sees! EVERYONE IS DOWN!

HBK tries to pin both Orton and Jericho, but they had too long to recover from the POWERBOMBS and nobody is eliminated. Gotta save some bodies for GOLDBERG after all!

Pretty fun punch spot with all 3 guys (HHH is still sleeping in his pod) just punching each other in the face in the middle of the ring.

GOLDBERG IS FREE~! EVERYONE GONNA FUCKING DIE NOW~!

Press Slam into a Spinebuster looks like it killed Orton. SPEAR just to make sure. Orton is DONE.

PRESS SLAM FROM INSIDE THE RING RIGHT INTO THE CHAIN WALL TO JERICHO~! Goldberg is mauling everyone :mark:.

SPEAR TO JERICHO THROUGH THE POD~!

That hurt Goldberg, allowing HBK to nail the elbow and the band begins to tune up and SPEAR~! JACKHAMMER~! HBK IS GONE~!

Poor Jericho, he's recovered enough from the POD SPEAR to get back in the ring, and he ends up taking another SPEAR~! JACKHAMMER~! JERICHO IS GONE~!

And then there was one. HHH is the last man standing, and Goldberg is gonna kill him :mark:.

Flair closing the pod door and holding it shut, protecting HHH is pretty sweet. Then Goldberg just fucking KICKS AND PUNCHES his way through the pod :mark:. HHH about to get raped in the pod!!!

Even HEEL LAWLER is talking about how HHH WAS a great champion, basically saying he's fucked and Goldberg is winning lol.

Goldberg sets up the SPEAR... and runs right into a fucking SLEDGEHAMMER SHOT!!! HHH pins him and retains the WHC .

Shocking finish to a SUPER FUCKING FUN match. I mean fuck me at the FUNNESS of this bad boy. Goldberg running through bitches in a confined space is just :mark:.

I do however have a problem with the finish. Goldberg was WHITE HOT at the time. HHH was INJURED. Goldberg would get the title a month later anyway. And yet they still decided to keep the belt with HHH. Didn't make that much sense to me. Surely Goldberg beating FIVE guys in the chamber would have been a better way to win the belt rather than JUST beating HHH one on one, right? Goldberg could have won here, then they could have giving HHH his rematch for the next PPV, with HHH claiming that Goldberg can't beat him one on one and without being inside the chamber or some shit, and stack the odds against the guy with EVOLUTION too and shit. Would have been fine. Instead HHH had to keep hold of the belt even though he was fucking INJURED and that kinda pisses me off tbh.

Oh well. Still uberfunawesome.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hate the 03 Elimination Chamber match. Only thing worth noting is the Jericho/Michaels interaction and Goldberg going crazy. I didn't like anything else, and even the Jericho/Michaels interaction wasn't that good.

The RAW after that sham of a PPV known as New Year's Revolution 2005 reminds me of why I switched to TNA/ROH around that time. The combination of Batista, Orton, and HHH feuding with each other doesn't bring good things. Orton/Batista that night was a DUD. At least I have Benoit/Jericho to look forward to next week. Don't have anything to look forward to on Smackdown.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Don't think I've seen the 2003 EC since it aired. I did torrent every EC match though, so hopefully I can get through them before tomorrow.

Speaking of that, I have high hopes for the chamber tomorrow. I'll be shocked if it doesn't end up being top 5 at the very least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked at the Jan 05 SD results. Eddie/Rey from the first show is the ONLY match that looks any good on paper for the entire month :lmao.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey and Eddie are carrying this fatal four way tag match that I'm watching right now, featuring talents such as The Bashams, an injured RVD, Booker T, Mark Jindrak, and Luther Reigns :lol

What's a good gateway match for a five year older? Trying to get my brother into wrestling, but the only guy he cares about is :bryan3


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd happily show the Hell No/Ryback vs. Shield TLC match to a younger fan (especially if they're a BRYAN MARK~!). That match is too much damn fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd happily show a 5 year old Bret/HBK Iron Man. But I hate kids...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> I'd happily show the Hell No/Ryback vs. Shield TLC match to a younger fan (especially if they're a BRYAN MARK~!). That match is too much damn fun.


Was just about to suggest a TLC match. If he's a Bryan mark definitely show him the TLC 2012 match, also go for the WretleMania 17 TLC as thats just an insane spot fest with all kinds of crazyness. If you want to show him some fun action packed singles matches that don't require an adults attention span, go for one of your personal favorites, DDP vs Goldberg. That math is 10 minutes of absolute intensity and big match feel. OR go for something like Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Halloween Havoc. I don't know what little kid wouldn't love that one, I remember it leaving me damn near speechless as a 10 year old.



King Cal said:


> I'd happily show a 5 year old Bret/HBK Iron Man. But I hate kids...


:lmao Cal wins


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finished Jericho 1998, found 54 matches of him from that year.

His heel run was like the best thing ever, it really showed how great he is on the mic, he was trolling everyone throughout the year basically. Mic-wise, he was obviously way superior than in 1997. Lots of hilarious segments.

He also had greater opponents to work with in this year and had lots of great matches although nothing was as good as the Fall Brawl match against Eddie the year before. The overall quality of the matches was about the same, I'd say.

Weird they never let him feud with the top dogs, though. He was getting great reactions (mostly heat) from the fans alongside Eddie. Also, there were some feuds that went nowhere (The Giant appearing in his fights for three weeks, Goldberg).



Spoiler: Best 98 matches imo



vs. Rey Mysterio (WCW Souled Out, 24.01.98, Singles, WCW Cruiserweight Championship) ***1/2
/w Eddie Guerrero vs. Chavo Guerrero & Dean Malenko (WCW Nitro, 09.02.98, Tag Team) ***3/4
/w Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko (WCW Nitro, 16.02.98, Tag Team) ***3/4
vs. Juventud Guerrera (WCW SuperBrawl VIII, 22.02.98, WCW Cruiserweight Championship) ***1/2
vs. Dean Malenko (WCW Uncensored, 15.03.98, Singles, WCW Cruiserweight Championship) ***1/2
vs. Prince Iaukea (WCW Spring Stampede, 19.04.98, Singles, WCW Cruiserweight Championship) ***1/2
vs. Rey Mysterio (WCW Nitro, 03.08.98, Singles) ***1/2
vs. Juventud Guerrera (WCW Road Wild, 08.08.98, Singles, WCW Cruiserweight Championship) ***1/2
vs. Billy Kidman (WCW Nitro, 02.11.98, Singles) ***3/4



1999 next


----------



## DCR (Aug 9, 2013)

ARMBAR

I'm waiting for my sister to bust open the new Jericho DVD I got... Excited for some awesome matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Jericho, been meaning to watch this all day lol:

*Chris Jericho vs. Pitbull #2 vs. Shane Douglas vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (Heat Wave 7/13/96)*

Ended up watching Rey/Eddie @ HH instead  Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Cal said:


> I'd happily show a 5 year old Bret/HBK Iron Man. But I hate kids...


:lmao:lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret/Shawn would be perfect if I ever want that little brat to go to sleep :lol. If I really want to torture him, I'll show him :taker :HHH2 KOTR 02.

Why does Tyson Tomko exist?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker and HHH had a match in 02? Don't think I've seen or heard of it. Oh well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DCR said:


> ARMBAR
> 
> I'm waiting for my sister to bust open the new Jericho DVD I got... Excited for some awesome matches.


Don't ever forget the legendary 3 handled moss covered family credenza. That GOAT hold :lmao

Jericho ruled on the mic and as a character that year. One of my favorite characters in wrestling.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Tyson Tomko solely existed so that Christian could accidentally knock him off the apron during every one of his matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Tyson Tomko solely existed so that Christian could accidentally knock him off the apron during every one of his matches.


Harley Race existed as a manager so he could hit Vader with his diving HEADBUTT every match :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched *Savage/Steamboat wm *3, as I wanted to see how it holds up, I use to have it at ***** so lets see. OMG this match is still glorious and it just got confirmed it will stand the test of time. TBH I do not get the "doesnt age well" comments regarding this match at all. It is soo unique, and just a testament to how great both workers are. Both went 15 mins straight w/o any stops or rest periods, and looked like they could go another 20 w/o one/ Savage's control periods are soo organic and great I was just in awe of it. Yea p. sure this is still around the 5* mark for me and one of the greatest matches ever. Its crazy to think this arguably wouldnt even be in Steamboats top 5


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Just watched *Savage/Steamboat wm *3, as I wanted to see how it holds up, I use to have it at ***** so lets see. OMG this match is still glorious and it just got confirmed it will stand the test of time. TBH I do not get the "doesnt age well" comments regarding this match at all. It is soo unique, and just a testament to how great both workers are. Both went 15 mins straight w/o any stops or rest periods, and looked like they could go another 20 w/o one/ Savage's control periods are soo organic and great I was just in awe of it. Yea p. sure this is still around the 5* mark for me and one of the greatest matches ever. Its crazy to think this arguably wouldnt even be in Steamboats top 5



Nah I'd definitely have it in Steamboats top 5, that match is absolutely amazing, anyone who says it doesn't age well has no taste as far as I'm concerned. That match was so far ahead of its time that people nowadays still haven't caught up to it. Outside of Austin/Bret, Bret/Owen, and MAYBE, maybe Taker/Shawn WM 25, it's right up there with the best matches in Mania history. Fuck it, it's ahead of Taker/Shawn and is a top 3 Mania match. I'm going to rewatch that again tonight thanks SKINS (Y)

Eh fuck it Best Steamboat singles Matches:

1. Vs Flair COTC New Orleans 2/3 Falls
2. Vs Vader WCW Saturday Night Human Cage Match
3. Vs Savage WM III
4. Vs Rick Rude Beach Blast 30 Minute Ironman
5. Vs Flair WrestleWar Nashville or Landover House Show

Skins if you haven't seen it already, check out Steamboat/Austin COTC it's absolutely incredible and worked similarly to the WM 3 bout in that both guys to full bore for 15-20 minutes with no rest and Austin is in his absolute prime.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I'd personally have it in his top 3 no doubt, just said that for some as I know there are wcw tag/flair/etc stuff out there ppl may like more. Yea definitely a top 5 mania match no doubt


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Yea I'd personally have it in his top 3 no doubt, just said that for some as I know there are wcw tag/flair/etc stuff out there ppl may like more. Yea definitely a top 5 mania match no doubt



Check the edit I made on my previous post for a match recommendation if your in the Steamboat mood now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still love Steamboat/Savage, but I'd absolutely definitely have all 5 (available) Flair 89 matches over it, Vader Human Cage, Regal FB 93, Iron Man with Rude, couple of DA tags AND the Savage match from... Toronto I think it was, just before WM ahead of it. Which just means that Steamboat is fucking INCREDIBLE.

As far as WM matches go, would still have a bunch over it. Not sure how many exactly, but I have a top 10 written down and it isn't there so at LEAST 10 WM matches are better than it . Which again is no slight on that match.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

Remember all 2003 PPVs had some kind of puzzle that formed 2003
It would have been good if the WWE had done that last year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Honestly....kinda. Trip does literally nothing better. Or even close to better. Or even close to close to close to better. HHH's best performance might be Bret's 100th best. Not even sure where someone could begin saying HHH is better. Hell I don't see how HHH is better than someone like the Big Show let alone Hart.
> 
> 
> I don't know what's wrong with Bret's 1997. I know Cody doesn't like it and part of that is the Undertaker matches, but I don't get where the 'lackluster' talk is coming. He was injured for [IDK how much of it] but what matches from the year do people not like? I also don't see his WCW run being really bad. Might not have been good, but there are multiple things in between good and bad.


I don't need to speak much about his '97 anymore. I've exhausted that. But the other topic...

I'm convinced the only good Bret Hart match from WCW might be the series vs DDP. I say that b/c that's basically the only stuff I haven't seen recently _(recently = a few years)_ and all the rest has just been garbage. The match vs Hennig @ Uncensored. Painful. It was like watching an indie show that's a tribute for all the legends of wrestling and seeing them embarrass themselves by having a terrible match.

I have nothing to say about this HHH > Bret Hart thing though. I don't care who had the better Iron Man match between the two. Good lord at the thought process here.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Steamboat/Savage is awesome, maybe not top 10 mania matches but still amazing 

I'm rewatching Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Iron man match . it legit just started so I have a long road ahead of me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret/Malenko is really good.

Royal Rumble 05 however is not so good. Specifically Edge/Michaels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't remember the details on that match, but I'll pop it on soon to change that. I know I'm big on the triple threat, rumble match _(yes, I like a few)_ & Taker carrying that piece of shit to another awesome match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Edge/Michaels just wasn't special, wasn't bad. 

rest of the card rocks though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2005 Royal Rumble - 17

Edge Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4 - 2
The Undertaker Vs Heidenreich - ***1/2 - 3
JBL Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - ***3/4 - 4
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - ***3/4 - 4
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4 - 4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal, match #4. What happened?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/HHH? It was FUCKING GOOD. That's what happened.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes it is. I just said it is. You quoted me saying it is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal look at who is in it. It tells you everything. EVERYTHING.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RR 2005 

Edge/Michaels: **1/2 

Taker/Heid: **3/4 

JBL/Angle/Show: ***3/4 

HHH/Orton: ***1/2 

Rumble: ****1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Nah I'd definitely have it in Steamboats top 5, that match is absolutely amazing, anyone who says it doesn't age well has no taste as far as I'm concerned. That match was so far ahead of its time that people nowadays still haven't caught up to it. Outside of Austin/Bret, Bret/Owen, and MAYBE, maybe Taker/Shawn WM 25, it's right up there with the best matches in Mania history. Fuck it, it's ahead of Taker/Shawn and is a top 3 Mania match. I'm going to rewatch that again tonight thanks SKINS (Y)
> 
> Eh fuck it Best Steamboat singles Matches:
> 
> ...


Yea man shockingly I HAVE seen all of the scsa/steamboat series top flight stuff. Yea so Cal is one of those ppl that have all of the flair series ahead of the steamboat/savage

lol deciding hhh or bret is better by how good their iron mens were


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal look at who is in it. It tells you everything. EVERYTHING.


Hey, I was SHOCKED when I did my RR reviews and it was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS said:


> Yea man shockingly I HAVE seen all of the scsa/steamboat series top flight stuff. Yea so Cal is one of those ppl that have all of the flair series ahead of the flair matches
> 
> lol deciding hhh or bret is better by how good their iron mens were


I have the Flair series ahead of the Flair matches?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I meant you had the flair matches ahead of the STEAMBOAT matches, just got home and a bit tired so bear w/ me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SKINS said:


> :lmao I meant you had the flair matches ahead of the STEAMBOAT matches, just got home and a bit tired so bear w/ me


Hmmm... still doesn't sound right to me :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fpalm @ myself right now, you have ALL THE FLAIR/Steamboat matches over savage/steamboat wm 3 :lmao if someone could delete my last 2 posts


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> fpalm @ myself right now, you have ALL THE FLAIR/Steamboat matches over savage/steamboat wm 3 :lmao if someone could delete my last 2 posts



Good lord brother :lmao

I refuse to believe that you could list 10 WrestleMania matches better than Savage/Steamboat Cal. And I swear to Christ if you so much as THINK of putting Taker/HHH WM 27 above it, I'll ban you. Somehow :side:

Or maybe I'll stop watching all your WWR videos and you will have 1 less view for each one and that will hurt you, some how :side:

Ok I better quit while I'm behind. Threats are no fun if you have no power.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I could likely list MORE THAN 10 .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Top 10 mania matches

1: HBK/Taker mania 25

2: Austin/Bret 

3: HHH/HBK/Benoit

4: Bret/Owen 

5: HBK/Taker WM 26 

6: Austin/Rock WM 19 

7: Batista/Taker

8: Savage/Warrior WM 7 

9: Steamboat/Savage 

10: Warrior/Hogan


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I usually give this section a quick look before going into this thread and :lmao at this section today. A Rock/Austin popularity thread AND a WHO WOULD IN A SHOOT FIGHT thread both on the first page. Good lord.

Planning to binge watch EC matches tonight. Hopefully I'll still enjoy them by the end :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Savage vs Steamboat is fantastic. It's probably a top ten WM match for me. Shouldn't be hard considering I don't think too many great matches has happened at WM. A lot of fun stuff, but in terms of real "classics", not a whole bunch like you think there would be. That's what they get for making so many pressed for time. Never understood that. It's the biggest show of the year. Lets try and either condense the work or cram as much as possible. Someone like Eddie Guerrero, for example, has only about one good match out of all his appearances.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea that what I got out of my rewatch also. On top of the "it doesn't age well" comments, I dont understand "there are so many match with the same style of it". It is so unique and organic. I just love it and always have, but this time it has solidified that I will probably love it forever. Just looking at smitty list, I would have it over #3,6,7,8. Havent seen Bret/owen in ages

I have also started watching wwe circa 2005, just finished w/ the first raw and sd of that year, pretty fun eddie/rey match Ive never heard of until now. However SD is sooo bad


Edit: After watching sd however, CHAIN GANG :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Chain Gang Cena in early 2005 is unbearable. Probably even worse than PG corny-joke Cena. His pandering is just cringeworthy even with the fact that they aren't booing him. Thank god he gets better towards the summer after moving to Raw.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Royal Rumble 05 however is not so good. Specifically Edge/Michaels.


Why do I get the feeling you're going in with an intentionally negative mind-set? :sad:

Batista/Orton a DUD? Talk about hyperbole!

---------------------

Finally watched HBK vs Mankind from Mind Games a couple of hours ago. Nothing unusual to say. Great match but horrible DQ finish.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Chain Gang Cena in early 2005 is unbearable. Probably even worse than PG corny-joke Cena. His pandering is just cringeworthy even with the fact that they aren't booing him. Thank god he gets better towards the summer after moving to Raw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great match, horrible DQ finish. That's all you can say about a top 10 match in WWE history 

Fuck the finish, doesn't detract a damn but from an otherwise flawless match. Finishes where the wrong guy wins (ie Cena/Brock) can slightly detract from matches for me, but DQ matches where it makes sense because neither guy should lose (like MindGames or Eddie/Rey JD) don't bother me at all. Yes Vader was a bit slow getting to the ring but whatever. My love for MindGames knows no bounds and I could discuss the awesomeness that is Foleys character work in that contest for eternity and never get bored.


Smitty: My top Mania matches would be:

1. Bret/Austin WM 13
2. Bret/Owen WM 10
3. Savage/Steamboat WM 3
4. Michaels/Taker WM 25
5. Savage/Warrior WM 7
6. HHH/Benoit/Michaels WM 20
7. Rock/Austin WM 17
8. Michaels/Taker WM 26
9. MitB Ladder Match WM 21
10. Rock/Austin WM 19


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mania top ten

Savage v. Steamboat
Flair v. Savage
Hart v. Hart
Hart v. Austin
Rock v. Austin (XVII)


........those are the only ones I really, really, *really* like. Stuff needs a re-watching to either say whether I'd still love it or not (Michaels v. Razor), or whether I'd actually like it that much PERIOD this time (Savage v. Warrior). If I was making an honest top ten I would think harder and Michaels v. Taker XXV and others would make it, but whatever. I think these are clearly ahead of the rest until re-watches change my mind (of other matches, fairly sure my opinion of these won't change). It's a top five, then.

Mania really doesn't have too many ''very good'' and above matches. I should watch ever match of every Mania show one day to actually get the matches I think are all that good on a list.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cjack I might need to rewatch Savage/Steamboat tbh, its been a few months since I watched it and that match seems to me that I can rewatch it a lot. I own that whole show and watched it through back in September, whole bunch of shit par savage/Steamer and Andre/Hogan simply because I had never seen it before, but it certainly wasn't great or anything.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

to avoid just lisTZ and LISTZ

Off the top of my head

hbk/taker 25
hbk/taker 26
bret/austin 
savage/steamboat
mania 20 three way
hbk/razor
hbk/ flair
savage/warrior


Nothing official, memory is a bit fuzzy but those are what comes to mind. I havent seen hart/hart in AGES ( maybe a yr and a half) but I'm almost certain its on here probably in-between savage/steamboat and the triple threat. Flair/Savage and Flair/HBK need rewatching as well.


Edit: I really dont feel the triple threat will be that high once all the rewatches if ever were watched, I'm almost sure of it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LOL I knew Skins would rep me for the Flair avi and sig :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> I have also started watching wwe circa 2005, just finished w/ the first raw and sd of that year, pretty fun eddie/rey match Ive never heard of until now. However SD is sooo bad
> 
> 
> Edit: After watching sd however, CHAIN GANG :mark:


Smackdown is just continuing the trend from their 2004 days. Of being the dirt worst, haha. So many dumb segments and bleh matches. Waiting to see when they hit their curve and the whole show begins to be fun. I know it hits that stride in the latter months, but perhaps it could be post-WM.

Eddie vs Mysterio to start the year was fun. Nothing more than "good", although they would more than reach fabulous levels later on. It was all building. For that, I'm a fan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown didn't hit their stride again until four years later. Do you really wanna scavenge through four years of Smackdown featuring Batista until you hit the good stuff involving the new Smackdown Six?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Network in like a day. :mark:

Also, CODY, started watching PWG Ten tonight. That Willie Mack/Candice LeRae/B-Boy vs Joey Ryan's team match was fun as hell. Candice LeRae is awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why pitch the same old thing when you know nobody is going to agree? :hmm:

And I really feel like that comment slights 2006 and that year was brilliant. 2003 owns too for the blue brand. btw, I don't subscribe to that stupid "Smackdown Six" mentality. Who's the knob that started this in the first place?

TEN. Yeah, that opener ruled. SCOTT LOST. Both the Championship matches on the show are a blast too. O'Reilly vs Perkins was a nice sleeper bout in it's own right.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Why pitch the same old thing when you know nobody is going to agree? :hmm:
> 
> And I really feel like that comment slights 2006 and that year was brilliant. 2003 owns too for the blue brand. btw, I don't subscribe to that stupid "Smackdown Six" mentality. Who's the knob that started this in the first place?
> 
> TEN. Yeah, that opener ruled. SCOTT LOST. Both the Championship matches on the show are a blast too. O'Reilly vs Perkins was a nice sleeper bout in it's own right.


I caught the Steen/Younger/Cole match and I enjoyed it. I actually think this is my first or second Adam Cole match I've ever seen. Definitely buying more PWG in the future. I like it's style.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Adam Cole is the MAN. His talent is matched by his consistency. Love the company attaching so much success to him in no time flat. How did you take to his bumping off the brainbustaaahhh from Steen? I went ape when he flew off the turnbuckle onto the floor. Ultra sick.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Smackdown didn't hit their stride again until four years later. Do you really wanna scavenge through four years of Smackdown featuring Batista until you hit the good stuff involving the new Smackdown Six?


watch more of 2006


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Adam Cole is the MAN. His talent is matched by his consistency. Love the company attaching so much success to him in no time flat. How did you take to his bumping off the brainbustaaahhh from Steen? I went ape when he flew off the turnbuckle onto the floor. Ultra sick.


My jaw absolutely dropped when that happened. Couple real crazy bumps in that match with the chairs too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, I watched enough EC matches for the next...well, there's another one in like 16 hours.

Time to watch Shield vs. Ryback/Sheamus/Cena since the implosion of the Shield is coming up soon


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> My jaw absolutely dropped when that happened. Couple real crazy bumps in that match with the chairs too.


Most insane thing I can remember from 2013.

This was your first PWG show from 2013 you saw, right? b/c I won't spoil the Guerrilla Warfare match from ASW Nine Night One, but WOW @ that melee. Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I just wanted to stop by and say I'm really looking forward to EC. I rarely watch any WWE and esp. not live. I'm also sure to be let down but :mark: :mark: :mark: nonetheless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you hear about Smackdown this week? It basically ruled for the fourth week in a row. I'm almost confident it'll be > the EC PPV as a whole, haha.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, Shield vs. Cena, Ryback, and Sheamus was just as good as I remember it being. Hard to believe it's been a whole year. :bryan2

Currently debating on watching Punk vs. Rock. Okay, no I'm not. I already closed the file.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, let the memory of Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback be the lasting memory of that event for ya. Punker or not, the finale isn't worthwhile. Twenty minute chinlock match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

re. some topics on the past few pages

The only Steamboat matches I'd have above the Savage WM 3 match are vs. Flair @ Chi Town, vs. Austin @ COTC and vs. Regal @ Fall Brawl. So WM 3 would come in at number 4 on my list of top Steamboat matches, although he's one of the cats I need to watch more of, and it's a crime that I haven't watched as much as I should have.

I haven't seen SD yet but judging by the card, it sounds amazeballs, again. Going to get right on it, now.

HHH/Orton @ RR 2005 is their best match, and it's not even close IMO. I do think their No Mercy matches are a bit blah, though.

CANDICE LERAE. The love of my life. I also second Cody's sentiments on the GW match. The whole Callihan/Younger series is great. Just another example of two guys excelling in that environment.

EC will be good, I'm convinced. Anything short of being the best PPV since Summerslam will be disappointing, but that's mainly due to the quality of PPV since SS being shitty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've had Candice LaRae acknowledge me and we shared a moment over wearing the same Iron Maiden t-shirt at a PWG event. I WIN AT LIFE.

This is something I'm holding onto forever, btw. No. It's not sad. Shut up.

Sheamus vs Christian from Smackdown was great. So different from all their past matches. Loved the different finish. Brought back an old relic to credibility. I adore Christian & my goodness, there are no words how much I love watching Sheamus. Dude is why I love to plop down and gush over professional wrestling. He's excellent. Cesaro vs Danielson was great too, although the ending was flat. It served it's purpose, but it didn't exactly do too much for the match itself. Not a problem. The quality was there in full. Wyatts' vs Rhodes Bros & Mysterio is what you'd expect. Totally awesome. It's official, we have a quality rapport to expect weekly from SD now.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Brye said:


> I caught the Steen/Younger/Cole match and I enjoyed it. I actually think this is my first or second Adam Cole match I've ever seen. Definitely buying more PWG in the future. I like it's style.


That BRAINBUSTER!!! :mark: :mark: :mark:



> I've had Candice LaRae acknowledge me and we shared a moment over wearing the same Iron Maiden t-shirt at a PWG event. I WIN AT LIFE.


That's cute bro :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody else is good enough until they can top that moment for me.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Nobody else is good enough until they can top that moment for me.


Well at least you got that.

But we both know I win haha.

So who actually watched the match between Jimmy Uso & Road Dogg? because I sure as hell didn't.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It never happened. :hayley1


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Top 10 WM matches:

Steamboat/Savage
Warrior/Hogan
Warrior/Savage
Savage/Flair
Bret/Owen
HBK/Ramon
Rock/Hogan
Vince/Hogan
Benoit/HBK/HHH
HBK/Angle


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle vs Michaels is probably number two, only behind the Iron Man, as the worst WM match out there. Screw the low brow stuff over the years. This match is a no excuses grade-A pile of wank.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/HBK makes my top 10 list 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's gonna Cal.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Also not a fan of the HBK/Angle mania, dont think its in the same league as the Iron man but its still massively overrated 

Whats the HBK/Angle Iron man like? I've never bothered to see it, even if I really like their Vengeance match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top WM Matches:

1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Bret/Austin WM13
3) Bret/Owen WM10
4) Taker/Punk WM29
5) Austin/Rock WM17
6) Taker/HBK WM26
7) Taker/Batista WM23
8) HBK/Y2J WM19
9) HBK/Razor WM10
10) Austin/Rock WM19


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Angle vs Michaels is probably number two, only behind the Iron Man, as the worst WM match out there. Screw the low brow stuff over the years. This match is a no excuses grade-A pile of wank.


:drake1



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Top WM Matches:
> 
> 1) Taker/HBK WM25
> 2) Bret/Austin WM13
> ...


:drake1


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

dISCOVEREED THIS channel today:

http://cytu.be/r/NXTWreddit Damn, they are streaming for 12 hours all the EC matches. Summeslam 2003 match now on


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I downloaded all the EC matches I don't already own with the intention of watching and ranking them before EC. Haven't even say through one yet :lmao.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rewatching Elimination Chamber 2013 right now and it's weird seeing how things have changed after a full year. Swagger was the contender for the world title, Cesaro started to lose regularly against the Miz (mainly non-title matches though), Ryback was seen as a big threat, Rock was the WWE champion facing the biggest heel of the company (CM Punk) at the time and both Bryan and Orton weren't booked very strongly. Especially Orton who was still recovering from 2012 where he just losing TV matches to Wade, Ziggler and Del Rio.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Smackdown didn't hit their stride again until four years later. Do you really wanna scavenge through four years of Smackdown featuring Batista until you hit the good stuff involving the new Smackdown Six?


Smackdown in 2006 was great except the summer period. I don't know much about 2008 but 2007 was definitely a down-period for the brand (and the company on a whole) after Wrestlemania.



Oliver-94 said:


> Rewatching Elimination Chamber 2013 right now and it's weird seeing how things have changed after a full year. Swagger was the contender for the world title, Cesaro started to lose regularly against the Miz (mainly non-title matches though), Ryback was seen as a big threat, Rock was the WWE champion facing the biggest heel of the company (CM Punk) at the time and both Bryan and Orton weren't booked very strongly. Especially Orton who was still recovering from 2012 where he just losing TV matches to Wade, Ziggler and Del Rio.


Amazes me how much better things are now. Orton has gone from jobbing to flavor of the month heels to being the undisputed champion, Bryan is finally being utilized better, Punk has fucked off and Ziggler is a bottom of the barrel jobber. Sucks that Rock isn't around but I can't really ask for much more at this point.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh god that Jericho/Saturn feud in early 99 was so bad. Can't believe they had three PPV matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I fucking love Saturn. He's one of my favorites from that period. Another great sidekick who always knew his place.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I know this is a late response, but I was out last night so fuck it. To the people that are acting like I'm a god damn window licker for my post regarding the HHH/Rock and Bret/HBK Ironman matches, may I suggest actually reading my post. I thought it was blatantly obvious I wasn't being serious considering the way I worded it, and the fact that in the same post I actually said Bret destroys Trips as a worker. I don't know 100% that your posts were directed at me because I wasn't quoted but I couldn't see any other posts that would fit. So...yeah. Carry on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> :drake1


You're better than this.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

No worries, I still <3 you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_*Choi Min-sik smiley*_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What's with these drake smiley hun


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Started from the bottom now I'm here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Smackdown is just continuing the trend from their 2004 days. Of being the dirt worst, haha. So many dumb segments and bleh matches. Waiting to see when they hit their curve and the whole show begins to be fun. I know it hits that stride in the latter months, but perhaps it could be post-WM.
> 
> Eddie vs Mysterio to start the year was fun. Nothing more than "good", although they would more than reach fabulous levels later on. It was all building. For that, I'm a fan.


Yea that doesnt sound good at all :lol, watched a few more episodes and it just torture besides as few things here and there. Never thought I'd appreciate sd 2012 this much. I have always been fond of Angle's mic and segments though, isnt it a ironic for what he is build he is a MUCH better promo than wrestler



HayleySabin said:


> Did you hear about Smackdown this week? It basically ruled for the fourth week in a row. I'm almost confident it'll be > the EC PPV as a whole, haha.


Heard Christian/Sheamus was amazing, need to check out


SMITTY said:


> Also not a fan of the HBK/Angle mania, dont think its in the same league as the Iron man but its still massively overrated
> 
> Whats the HBK/Angle Iron man like? I've never bothered to see it, even if I really like their Vengeance match


IIRC its better than mania (not a hard feat) but it also tends to drag, had a good start but it cools down for most alot 



After yesterday's convo, I wanted to rewatch hbk/flair wm 24 to get a better understanding of its order, although I can still probably write a 400 word review on the match and havent seen it in months. But I didn't want to rewatch it, lets try something fresher, so I went w/ hbk/flair bad blood . I thought it was good but had gripe and, Shawn not selling the work on his right leg irritated me. Naitch attacked and attacked it, and put it in the Figure 4 , but still Shawn selling was spotty.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

21 hours till network..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Potentially 9 months or so until the Network...


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Well I hope there will be an early 2015 release here in Germany.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't get how they expect more than a million subs just in US


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Sono Shion said:


> Started from the bottom now I'm here.


Sounds like the tag line to almost every Cena match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So I saw like the tenth "Kofi should turn heel" thread of the past few months today. Do people not realize he would probably be the worst heel of all time? If none of his actual moveset as a face is even remotely...ah, whatever. TURN KOFI HEEL. :vince$

Oh, and EC today. And NETWORK tomorrow. Fuck me :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Angle vs Michaels is probably number two, only behind the Iron Man, as the worst WM match out there. Screw the low brow stuff over the years. This match is a no excuses grade-A pile of wank.


You thought I was crazy for liking the Usos. Imagine me having that same feeling about you.

Dreading NWO 2005, but I found a nice gem in Mysterio/Jindrak from 2/3/05. It's Rey Mysterio. How can it possibly fail? Might be the best Jindrak match ever in WWE. How is his stuff in Mexico? I heard he's a main eventer there.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

LOL at Jindrak. And to think that guy was gonna have Batista's spot in Evolution. 

Imagine Mark Jindrak coming back after a 4 year absence to win the Royal Rumble and take Daniel Bryan's rightful main event spot :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I can't remember a thing about Jindrak except he teamed with Cade for a bit and had Teddy Long as his manager for three weeks. So if I can't remember much about him, he couldn't have been that bad. 8*D


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I thought he sucked pretty hard, and I was like 8. I remember him calling himself the Reflection of Perfection or something stupid like that and being a part of Angle's stable thing with Luther Reigns.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I like Angle/Michaels WM 21 :side:

Not top 10 mania matches like, but probably top 20-30. Savage/Flair murders it though, that's one of my all time favorites. Should have put that in my top 10.

Smitty- I tried to rep you for the GOAT avatar/sig combo you've got going on but I need to spread it around. Your sig especially :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The "gutter slut" stuff when Angle and Booker feud was hilarious. They kept censoring the word so for a while I thought what Mizark Jindrak said was actually "gutter shit". :lol

EDIT: We're getting closer and closer to seeing Orton break his EC losing streak. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton has a losing streak inside the EC? I DID NOT KNOW THIS!

:|

Must. Kill. Commentators.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Orton may have never won an Elimination Chamber, but John Cena has won on four different occasions! I wonder if any of this will play in to the chamber match tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena is actually 3-1 because he lost in 2009.

About time they acknowledge Orton's 0-5 record. I've kept track ever since last year when nobody else did. Now he's tied with Kane for the worst record which is surprising because Orton has always been around the main event scene throughout the years while Kane was just a spot filler.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit/Jericho Submission match is quality. We need another submission match. Last one we had was between KELLY KELLY and NIKKI BELLA :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Boreton retains. unk3


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> 21 hours till network..


Until I become a shut in and don't need women anymore. Kidding. Well, maybe half serious. :curry2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Until I become a shut in and don't need women anymore. Kidding. Well, maybe half serious. :curry2


I've already taken off work tomorrow just so I can spend 18 hours doing nothing but watching the network. I'm diving straight into WCW 1992 and not coming up for air until I've finished. I finally broke the news to my girlfriend that there is a network being launched tomorrow with all the wwe and WCW PPV's ever and that her services will no longer be required. I wished her well in all her future endeavors :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Cactus:* Please do me a favor and give me insight on how they handle Benoit. Dive headfirst into WM XX or Backlash 04 and tell me if there are any edits for the main event.



funnyfaces1 said:


> We need another submission match. Last one we had was between KELLY KELLY and NIKKI BELLA :lmao


Wasn't that from the same show when the worst era in Raw history started? (27/6/11 if you need that spelled out)

Hard to believe it's been that long. I wish they would put Orton in a submission match where he introduces a new hold for a secondary finisher, similar to Cena in 2005.

Speaking of Orton and the Japan Raw, his face looked scary red after that Tomko match. As if his concussion was legitimate. But it did result in that awesome Christian match which was the most we got between them until 2011 exposed us to more of their awesome chemistry.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I've already taken off work tomorrow just so I can spend 18 hours doing nothing but watching the network. I'm diving straight into WCW 1992 and not coming up for air until I've finished. I finally broke the news to my girlfriend that there is a network being launched tomorrow with all the wwe and WCW PPV's ever and that her services will no longer be required. I wished her well in all her future endeavors :lmao


Nice! We are busy as fuck at work and I just missed some time from Walking Pneumonia or I'd be taking Tuesday and Wednesday off I won't lie. There will be some late nights for me this week for sure though. 

1992 WCW was badass. Excited to watch the WCW PPVs in Japan! 

I plan on plunging into 1997 WWF and finding as many Savage and Sting matches that I've never seen! :dance


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton did this reverse Boston Crab move against Christian that he should bring out more often. Don't know if he NEEDS a submission finisher when he already has possibly the most over finisher today as well as a finisher for special situations. :cesaro though could utilize one. And of course, if the GOAT/bringer of this blessed era ever makes his presence again, he should have one with Bryan. Great to see that he's still alive last night.

Why would you take off from work tomorrow if the network doesn't start up until after RAW?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah cant get off tomorrow, but when I get home at about 3 I will be on the network all night tbh

Planning on watching...everything, who knows what, my first hour on the network will most likely be debating what to watch :lol


----------



## DCR (Aug 9, 2013)

Watching the best of Nitro.

Arn Anderson is probably one of my 5 favorite people ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Yeah cant get off tomorrow, but when I get home at about 3 I will be on the network all night tbh
> 
> Planning on watching...everything, who knows what, my first hour on the network will most likely be debating what to watch :lol


How are you working? I thought you said that you were only 13 years old.:|

William Regal/Tajiri vs. La Resistance is one of those special feel good moments in wrestling. I'm scared of watching London/Akio in Japan. Cody said it sucked. I remember liking it when I watched it two years ago, but I also remember it not going to that next level. Their #1 contender match is better.

When you folks get the network, don't forget to watch Vengeance 2003. Might be the best brand split PPV. Easily the best Smackdown one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though we (UK) aren't getting the network 'till next year, i'm probably the only one who isn't really that bothered.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Everything on the network will be put on XWT anyway so :hb


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Perhaps this diatribe would be best suited for the Shield discussion, but it reflects match thoughts, and this is a match/show discussion thread. 

Obviously Roman Reigns has alot of desirable atributes which is easy to see why the guy is primed for a push to the moon. The guy, while not having a very expansive or even versitle offense has one that is hit with maximum force that is appealing to the eye and the spear thanks to american football is one of the most easily understood move in terms of mechanics and impact to casual audience members, which of course is the biggest piece of the pie and an asset to Reigns since he has by far the best spear in the business. You don't have to be homosexual to see that the man is good looking and has a physique that I feel would be easy for many to get behind, since he is well muscled, but not among the probably to most tiring lot of guys who look like illegal substances are in their supplemental stack. Reigns of course has strong presence/physical charisma, a good attitude, an unique trash talking game that is servicable in clarifying Reigns as heel (though obviously Reigns is a megaface waiting to happen as evidenced by the growing crowd chants for Reigns), and while needing to gain more solo experience before he can shed his rep as a supbar worker, I personally think he is a good seller. Easy to see why the guy is made to look to the audience as a God and rewriting the record books (whether or not the extent is justified or not is up for debate), and of course Reigns would need feats in order for fans to view him as credible. 

All this said, I don't think tonight would be appropriate to use as a vehicle to once again make Reigns appear to be a God. I think that tonight's match, especially given the quality of the buildup should be more of an evenly spread effort, and while Reigns being the enforcer and of the three most accomplished wwe wise will obviously be the de facto "boss" of the group, I think that again it is important tonight that the Shield have a collectively strong effort and that Reigns to use a comic term when two factions are being debated doesn't solo the wyatt family for both teams sake. Given Reigns' booking though, I do have a fear that this will happen and wonder if anyone shares the same trepedation. Tonight should be a good collective fight that at times plays out the power vs finnese game and the only way I see this ruined is if this turns once again into SuperReigns kills opposition. Reigns has gotten alot of credability already in key ppvs where plenty of eyes were watching ala his Survivor Series performance and Royal Rumble record plus Reigns is slated to go over at mania if the triple threat occurs, I think tonight the Reigns show should be given a pause. Hell if a last minute change is made and this ends up being an elimination tag match, I wouldn't be opposed to Reigns getting eliminated first on the Shield (though obviously causing carnage first) and then Dean and Rollins giving a valiant effort 2 on 3 effort, but ultimately losing after a war where Dean falls short to Bray. Not only would that finally give Dean just one victory over Reigns and provide some more fuel for the Shield's slowburn break but also would help the cred of Rollins and particularly Ambrosse, whom I can't imagine has a high stock in the eyes of the majority of the fanbase right now. I understand that Dean and Rollins are made intentionally to be undermined by Reigns, but wheras Rollins' stock isn't as hurt since he gets the lions share of ringtime and had the fantastic Cena contest a couple months ago, I think that the persistant losses have hurt Dean's credability alot in the process.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

So fucking pumped for the Shield vs Wyatts match. I expect 4 star stuff here if given about 15-20 minutes. The chamber match should be great as well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How are you working? I thought you said that you were only 13 years old.:|


I'm not 13 :lmao, I'm 17 dude, and I meant school


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

DAT BARELY PUBESCENT SMITTY :troll

Just realized that I'm missing RAW tomorrow because I have class until 5 and a study session for a big midterm from 6-8. Ah well, it'll be on the NETWORK.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont know where the hell you guys got the idea that I was only 13 :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *Cactus:* Please do me a favor and give me insight on how they handle Benoit. Dive headfirst into WM XX or Backlash 04 and tell me if there are any edits for the main event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not a problem was planning on checking that out first before anything else tbh, unedited Benoit is the primary reason I'm getting the network,



funnyfaces1 said:


> Orton did this reverse Boston Crab move against Christian that he should bring out more often. Don't know if he NEEDS a submission finisher when he already has possibly the most over finisher today as well as a finisher for special situations. :cesaro though could utilize one. And of course, if the GOAT/bringer of this blessed era ever makes his presence again, he should have one with Bryan. Great to see that he's still alive last night.
> 
> Why would you take off from work tomorrow if the network doesn't start up until after RAW?


The network gets launched at 9am on Monday morning. Check the countdown on wwe.com


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Most insane thing I can remember from 2013.
> 
> This was your first PWG show from 2013 you saw, right? b/c I won't spoil the Guerrilla Warfare match from ASW Nine Night One, but WOW @ that melee. Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger :mark:


Correct.  Was browsing that show on highspots and it looked awesome. Got a check coming in soon that I'll probably be throwing at this stuff. :side:



Flux said:


> re. some topics on the past few pages
> 
> The only Steamboat matches I'd have above the Savage WM 3 match are vs. Flair @ Chi Town, vs. Austin @ COTC and vs. Regal @ all Brawl. So WM 3 would come in at number 4 on my list of top Steamboat matches, although he's one of the cats I need to watch more of, and it's a crime that I haven't watched as much as I should have.
> 
> ...





HayleySabin said:


> I've had Candice LaRae acknowledge me and we shared a moment over wearing the same Iron Maiden t-shirt at a PWG event. I WIN AT LIFE.
> 
> This is something I'm holding onto forever, btw. No. It's not sad. Shut up.
> 
> Sheamus vs Christian from Smackdown was great. So different from all their past matches. Loved the different finish. Brought back an old relic to credibility. I adore Christian & my goodness, there are no words how much I love watching Sheamus. Dude is why I love to plop down and gush over professional wrestling. He's excellent. Cesaro vs Danielson was great too, although the ending was flat. It served it's purpose, but it didn't exactly do too much for the match itself. Not a problem. The quality was there in full. Wyatts' vs Rhodes Bros & Mysterio is what you'd expect. Totally awesome. It's official, we have a quality rapport to expect weekly from SD now.


My friend actually has an awesome pic he took with Joey Ryan and Candice LaRae where him and Joey are touching mustaches. He moved out to Cali a couple years ago and he's been to like 10 shows since.

And totally agreed on Smackdown. It's picked up like crazy recently. Before you could only really expect about one solid match a show or whatever, now they're actually filling the whole thing with interesting cards.

I think the Chamber could be a solid show. The chamber itself has potential, Wyatts/Shield should be awesome, Swaggy/E could be good, I'm at the very least interested in DY/Titus and Del Rio might get cheered like crazy which would be hilarious/awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> I dont know where the hell you guys got the idea that I was only 13 :lol


Try everybody getting your age wrong when your birth year is literally in your username. 










[wrestling talk] - Angle/Michaels is worthless drivel. Angle/Jannetty is so much better and an actually very good match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of SD being awesome for the last few weeks... same as Raw from the other day, I'm putting together my own best of. Got these matches so far:










And then gonna add:

Bryan/Swagger
Bryan/Cesaro
Wyatts/Cody, Goldie & Rey
Sheamus/Christian

from the last SD once its finished downloading in HD. Have I missed anything worth seeing from this year so far?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched a bunch of matches, Steamboat/Savage, Steamboat/Vader, and Steamboat/Flair New Orleans. All held up as the 5-star classics and GOAT contenders that they are.

After the Vader/Steamboat match on the WHC set I just selected Jericho/Rocky NM 2001 to pass time. I was planning on getting some work done and just playing it for the crowd noise in the background. Instead, I got completely enthralled and sucked in. I've seen this match before but I never appreciated just how great it is until now. I remember Yeah1993 using this match as an example of being a great match but not because of anything Jericho did in particular. I'm going to have to disagree. I thought I remembered Jericho being a heel around this time, but this match seemed like a pure face vs face contest. It didn't bore me like a lot of face/face matches do, there was so much fire in both guys and the match just flows beautifully. Nothing is done out of place, and all the timing for the transitions was nearly flawless. Outside of a missed apron drop kick (that was actually probably Rocky's fault, he stood too far away) and maybe 1 or 2 other slight mishaps, I though Jericho was every bit as good as the "Great One". I can see why Jericho said in his book that Rocky is his all time favorite opponent. They almost appeared like they were dancing at times how perfectly everything flowed. Great, great match. Will definitely be adding it to my top 100 WWE matches list. ****1/2

Jericho's Breakdown move looks about 100 times better than Miz's SCF. What a rip off, Miz can't even steal moves right.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have to watch that Jericho/Rocky NM 2001 match, watched their Royal rumble match not long ago and love that one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DAT CAL LIST STILL INVALID! 8*D



funnyfaces1 said:


> Orton did this reverse Boston Crab move against Christian that he should bring out more often. Don't know if he NEEDS a submission finisher when he already has possibly the most over finisher today as well as a finisher for special situations. Cesaro though could utilize one. And of course, if the GOAT/bringer of this blessed era ever makes his presence again, he should have one with Bryan. Great to see that he's still alive last night.


Yeah, the Inverted Crab was pretty awesome. But I think a Sharpshooter would be good for him. Nobody uses that move at the moment and a few years ago I heard he used it in tribute to Benoit in a house show match. He should've stuck with it as his secondary finisher. Although he should learn to sit down on the move when it's locked in instead of standing.



Cactus Jack said:


> Not a problem was planning on checking that out first before anything else tbh, unedited Benoit is the primary reason I'm getting the network,


Thanks, BROTHER! :hogan2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly think the Jericho feud was Rock's best. I wouldn't change a single damn thing about the feud. Their dynamic was so perfect. Up and coming face that later became jealous of the #1 guy, but he seemed to have said top guy's number. I too disagree with that fool born in 1993 about Jericho not having that good of a performance in the No Mercy match. Definitely both guys putting in top tier work. And then that Royal Rumble 02 match :mark:. Jericho with DAT COWARDLY HEEL showing.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just saw someone say that Cena and Sheamus are below average in the ring. LEL, I never cease to be amazed by some peoples' opinions.

About three hours until EC :mark: (I should probably go to the gym and get out of my room or something before the show starts)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You thought I was crazy for liking the Usos. Imagine me having that same feeling about you.
> 
> Dreading NWO 2005, but I found a nice gem in Mysterio/Jindrak from 2/3/05. It's Rey Mysterio. How can it possibly fail? Might be the best Jindrak match ever in WWE. How is his stuff in Mexico? I heard he's a main eventer there.


NWO 05 is an abomination of a show, good luck getting through that in one sitting.

But JBL/Show is :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't say Jericho wasn't good in the No Mercy match [or if I did then it was unintentional], I said I thought the Rock was clearly better in it. There's a massive, massive difference.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena and Sheamus are only below average in the ring when they face each other. 

I'm worried that JBL/Big Show will just end up being a match where only the ending was the good part. Their feud is total shit. Big Show as a main event babyface was good in WCW, but it always failed in WWE.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cena and Sheamus are only below average in the ring when they face each other.
> 
> I'm worried that JBL/Big Show will just end up being a match where only the ending was the good part. Their feud is total shit. Big Show as a main event babyface was good in WCW, but it always failed in WWE.


It easily the best match on the show & I rather enjoy seeing those 2 just beat the shit out of each other (Y)

Jericho/Rock RR 02 :banderas


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NWO 05: 

Bashams vs Eddie/Rey: **

Booker T vs Heidenreich: DUD 

CW thing: * 

Reigns/Taker: DUD 

Cena/angle: **1/2 

JBL/Show: ***1/2 

Easily the worst show of 05, somehow worse then the GAB :|


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> NWO 05:
> 
> Bashams vs Eddie/Rey: **
> 
> ...


How could you give Bashams vs Eddie/Rey **'s? :|


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I found it to be extremely boring, and I hate the Bashams so..


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> I found it to be extremely boring, and I hate the Bashams so..


I meant how did you not give that a DUD?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh :lmao 

Looking back at my review I gave it ** because I liked the finishing stretch

EDIT: continuing watching all of SD 2003 now, on the third show of the year, writing down whatever matches I like so I can have a list to go back to anytime


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Half a star is way too much for that match :lol but it's your opinion.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't say Jericho wasn't good in the No Mercy match [or if I did then it was unintentional], I said I thought the Rock was clearly better in it. There's a massive, massive difference.


No you didn't say Jericho wasn't good in No Mercy, you just said he wasn't the reason that match was great. At least that's what I thought you said. I don't think The Rock was clearly better either, I thought both guys really held up their end. Rocky definitely seemed "bigger", if that makes sense. He seemed like the more important participant, but a lot of that I think is just sheer force of personality. Rocky just has a presence, like Goldberg and Lesnar, where everything he does seems way cooler and more sognificant because it's The Rock doing it. Jericho just doesn't have that, but really that isn't a slight on him no people have ever had "it" to the degree that Rocky, Austin, Lesnar, Goldberg, and Hogan did. If we subtract that factor and just go by what was done in the ring, I feel Jericho and Rock were equals.

P.s. Is the Royal Rumble 2002 match better than No Mercy 2001? I can't seem to remember a thing about this Royal Rumble match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Half a star is way too much for that match :lol but it's your opinion.


Its hard to give a Eddie Guerrero match less than a star Ese!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Its hard to give a Eddie Guerrero match less than a star Ese!


It's not hard when the whole match is all rest moves.

I love Eddie, but a crap match is a crap match regardless.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Its hard to give a Eddie Guerrero match less than a star Ese!



Ain't that the truth. The only exception would be some of the stuff from his first WWE run from 2000-2001 when he was either high or drunk the entire time. But we all know that doesn't count, right


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Maybe I'll rewatch the tag match sometime, not now but maybe I did go to high on it tbh


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock was clearly not better than Jericho in the NM 01 match. Just like Mysterio was clearly not better than Jericho in their matches, or HHH, or Benoit, or anyone really except for Eddie.

:lmao at Rey Mysterio selling his ribs instead of his back in the Japan match against Angle. Good match, but I remember it being better. Now I'm even more scared of watching NWO 05. I wouldn't be surprised if every match on that show is a DUD except for the main event. Cena/Angle :bosh


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Great Match! I don't ever see any1 talk about this match, because the match happened on WrestleMania (22) - Revenge-Tour. So for any1 who hasn't seen the match, here it is, l0l.

WrestleMania (22) Revenge-Tour - Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton



Spoiler: WrestleMania Revenge-Tour - Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton



x5j155

x5j18h

x5j1b7


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Luckily the main event is amazeballs and I like Cena/Angle more than most, much better than their matches later in the year imo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just when I was about to give up on Big E, he impresses me here. This match is so much fun. In the same vein as Ryback/Sheamus.

EDIT: :mark: Can't wait to see Cody shit on this because of who is in it rather than what happened.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

An awesome opener, Big E held his own here too

BNB :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Big E's best match but he needs to work on his selling. Didn't sell the ankle very well IMO.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That was surprisingly very good. Big E's best match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Just when I was about to give up on Big E, he impresses me here. This match is so much fun. In the same vein as Ryback/Sheamus.
> 
> EDIT: :mark: Can't wait to see Cody shit on this because of who is in it rather than what happened.



Nah Cody likes Swagger he will be fair. And to be fair to Cody, Big E has been nothing but the drizzling shits in the ring up until that match. It's no huge accomplishment to have a ***1/4 match with Jack Swagger, that dude can go in the ring Big E just managed not to fuck anything up. That spear through the ropes was dope though. As was the tackle into the stairs. Now if he can just learn to wrestle in between all those Irish whips and power moves, he will be good to go. And for god sakes change his ring gear, he looks like a fucking idiot in that rasta colored one piece female bathing suit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SHIELD VS WYATTS :mark: 

Tag match and Darren/Titus both sucked, the latter should have been on the pre show tbh


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shield/Wyatts: A very high *****1/2*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Welp, I'm hard after that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★★★ for the six man tag. Reigns was fucking awesome in the finishing stretch. Just non-stop chaos like we all wanted from this match. Sucks to see The Shield split which is no doubt coming soon.

Hopefully the chamber will be even better than that. If it happens, this will be an epic PPV.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a new match of the year!

Shield vs Wyatt's was everything I hoped for. My lord that match was just one big mark out moment for me. That was wrestling bliss. REIGNS! ROLLINS! HARPER! WHOOOOOOO :flair3

****1/2 for Shield/Wyatt's.

Looks like they are breaking the Shield up, I can see Reigns getting pissed at Ambrose for not helping him.

As great as Reigns was in that match, Rollins was the star performer for me. What a complete nut. Although Ambrose attacking Bray and taking him over the barricade was probably my favorite moment, Rollins performance was just one holy shit moment after another. Harper and Rowan and Bray were all excellent as well. Everyone ruled. I wish we could get a TLC rematch at Mania, hopefully they can hold off the Shield split until then, but I doubt it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great match! Best Shield match since TLC 2012 imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

****1/2 for Shield/Wyatts and new MOTY 

If the chamber is good too :mark:

Great way to send the shield out tbh


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Holy shit what a great match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm going full five stars for that. Holy shit...epic.

That is why I want to be a wrestler. Matches like that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield/Wyatts surpasses Shield's debut IMO. Incredible match. I'd go ****3/4 on it on first watch.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

THOSE LAST 10 MINUTES OH MY GOD

****1/2


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

****3/4. I need a cigarette after that match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

edit


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Considering that this was not a No DQ match, I can honestly think of no flaws for that match. Well, we could have used a Roman Reigns spear through the barricade, but that's it. Other than that, we witnessed an all-time classic guys.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That match was the rare case where you think there is so much hype it can't possibly live up to it....and then the match happens....and you realize it shattered expectations and was better than you could have dreamed. Best part? If they add a gimmick like TLC or Hell in a Cell and do it at Mania, I feel they could probably top it. That's why it gets ****1/2 from me, I feel like they have a better match in them, as amazing as that sounds.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Great match between the Shield and Wyatt Family. However, I think it should have been a NODQ tornado tag match so we would get a nonstop, chaotic brawl. I believe it being a regular tag match lead to the crowd becoming quieter at slower parts.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cameron vs AJ = piss break


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Shield/Wyatt. What a fucking match. Happy with the unpredictable ending in terms of Reigns taking the pin.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm giving it ****3/4. Easily possible that it goes to a five.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Shield/Wyatt getting the full five, I need something after that good god.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

EmbassyForever said:


> ****3/4. I need a cigarette after that match.



Im outside smoking right now :lmao

Divas match coming on + the fact I just damn near had an orgasm, and well, it was needed.

That's why I still watch today's product. As shitty as it is some times, as awful as the booking can be, as terrible as some of the guys they try to force down our throats are....every once in a while WWE gives us a match like Punk/Lesnar or Wyatt's/Shield that proves I'm not wasting my time by following the show. Every once in a while, Vince throws the IWC a bone and let's Punker take on the Beast or let's two heel stables battle it out to just give his fan base a little hope for the future.

I don't think that match quite tops the TLC 2012 Shield match, but man it was so good I don't even care to compare it to any thing else at this time. I'm one happy dude at this moment.


----------



## Waffelz (Feb 12, 2013)

AJ Should have won by dq.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Bumping my rating up to ****3/4 because it fucking deserves it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> ★★★★ for the six man tag. Reigns was fucking awesome in the finishing stretch. Just non-stop chaos like we all wanted from this match. Sucks to see The Shield split which is no doubt coming soon.
> 
> Hopefully the chamber will be even better than that. If it happens, this will be an epic PPV.



Don't get me wrong bro, **** is a damn good rating, but were you watching the same match as the rest of us? You gave Cena/Orton RR ***3/4, and that match only gets ****? What about it didn't scream epic amazing ness? Just curious I'm not shitting on you or anything.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Boo-Tista chants. :lmao

In Vince's head they're cheering for him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Boo-Tista chants. :lmao
> 
> In Vince's head they're cheering for him.


This crowd rules. They cheered for Swagger over Big E, and now they are shitting all over Batista. I love it :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kofi Kingston did more in his match against Cesaro than Batista just did there. Good God, there is nobody shittier in the ring than Batista today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Kofi Kingston did more in his match against Cesaro than Batista just did there. Good God, there is nobody shittier in the ring than Batista today.



Agreed. Jesus that was bad, he blows up in like 2 minutes then ADR literally did every single bit of work until he hit the Batista bomb to finish. What a joke.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Fuck me, Shield/Wyatts was just immaculate.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at Mark Henry shitting on Randy Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Don't get me wrong bro, **** is a damn good rating, but were you watching the same match as the rest of us? You gave Cena/Orton RR ***3/4, and that match only gets ****? What about it didn't scream epic amazing ness? Just curious I'm not shitting on you or anything.


I give Cena/Orton ***¼ actually. Four may be a little too low but I just don't go too high on matches in an instant. One thing that matters: IT FUCKING RULED and we all agree on that! Forgot to mention that awesome top rope German when Rollins landed on his feet! Too much awesomeness and if I watch again, I'll probably go 4 and a half.

Now it's chamber time! :mark: Randal, retain the title and make these assholes on the internet fuck off! rton2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Shield/Wyatts that good? How long?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck, I'm absolutely dreading what ever Batista's Mania match ends up being.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YES! Orton finally finishing the losing streak! :mark:

AWESOME match. Now it's time to GTS! It's been a fun night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jesus, Orton/Batista for the WWE WHC Title at WM 30 stands a VERY good chance of unseating Miz/Cena as the worst WWE Title match at WrestleMania in the modern era. This is going to be AWFUL, like totally unwatchable AWFUL. If they try to do Bryan/Kane at Mania.....I don't even know. This better be setting up a Triple H Match, thats all I'm saying.

Orton could give the performance of his life at Mania and it still wouldn't matter, Batista is completely worthless at this point. Like WOAT worthless.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Jesus, Orton/Batista for the WWE WHC Title at WM 30 stands a VERY good chance of unseating Miz/Cena as the worst WWE Title match at WrestleMania in the modern era. This is going to be AWFUL, like totally unwatchable AWFUL. If they try to do Bryan/Kane at Mania.....I don't even know. This better be setting up a Triple H Match, thats all I'm saying.


Yeah, I'm legitimately dreading that. Crowd might possibly make it entertaining though.

If they go with Bryan/Kane at Mania then I fucking give up.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Elimination Chamber review:

Big E/Swagger - ***
Usos/NAO - **3/4
Titus/Young - **1/2
Shield/Wyatts - ****1/2
AJ/Cameron - *1/2
Batista/Del Rio - **1/4
Elimination Chamber- ****1/4

Fun night. Big E/Swagger was solid and The Usos/NAO was nice as well. Shield/Wyatts was AWESOME. Those 6 men brought the thunder tonight. This match is what I always pictured it to be: ABSOLUTE BEDLAM and it was fun to watch. We wanted to see a war, we got a war and it was fucking sweet. The Elimination Chamber was great as well with a lot of exciting moments, such as Christian's big splash, Sheamus' Brogue Kicking Orton's pod, Wyatts showing up, and Bryan almost winning the whole thing. Looks like we're getting Orton/Batista at Mania, but due to the circumstances on how Bryan lost, I think there's still hope that Bryan will be in the main event. I would like to see Orton/Batista/Bryan in a triple threat match and have Bryan get his moment like Benoit arWrestlemania XX but I'm not going to hold my breath over that. I can't help but feel that Bryan might face Kane at Mania. If that happens, what a disappointment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

some dude on reddit said:


> That PPV was like a dominatrix giving you a handjob and just before you reach climax she lets go. Sure the buildup was nice but in the end you're just left there cumming with no real feel of relief. Then just as soon as its over she plugs her new sub sub service for only $10 a month with a 6 month commitment knowing that she has you by the balls both figuratively and literally.


Despite LOVING Shield/Wyatts, I feel this. :lmao


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Shield/Wyatts - ****1/4 and MOTY so far.

Elimination Chamber - ***3/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> Yeah, I'm legitimately dreading that. Crowd might possibly make it entertaining though.
> 
> If they go with Bryan/Kane at Mania then I fucking give up.


They're finally acknowledging that Bryan 'should have won' and was screwed again - I think he gets in that title match at Wrestlemania, to be honest. Maybe he pulls double duty at Wrestlemania, opening vs. Kane and if he wins, he gets in the main event.

Plus, with the way a Minneapolis crowd shit on Batista, Vince can't be dumb enough to think it'll be fine for Wrestlemania.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Elimination Chamber ratings:

Big E/Swagger - ***1/2*
Usos/NAO - ****
Titus/Young - **1/2*
Shield/Wyatts - *****1/2*
AJ/Cameron - *DUD*
Batista/Del Rio - *DUD*
Elimination Chamber- *****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs. RybAxel - **1/4
Big E (c) vs. Jack Swagger - ***1/4
New Age Outlaws (c) vs. The Usos - **1/2
Titus O'Neil vs. Darren Young - *1/2
The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield - *****
AJ (c) vs. Cameron - 3/4* (just for AJ doing Cameron's entrance)
Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio - *3/4 (dat crowd)
Elimination Chamber - ****

seriously in love with that six man tag match. I want to wrestle because of that... like, I wanted to anyways, but it just confirms it even more for me.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Shield/Wyatts: ****1/2

Elimination Chamber: ****

All that mattered.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I give the PPV a 7/10. Shield vs Wyatts and EC match were great. Big E vs Swagger was good. NAO vs Usos and Titus vs Young were whatever. Cameron v AJ and Bootista vs ADR were duds.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Ever since I started watching wrestling again in early 2012, no match has made me more excited and breathless than that Shield/Wyatts match. It was just immense, and the ending was completely unpredicted. I believe that's the first time Reigns has been pinned. Rollins and Harper were just _out of this world_. Rollins landing on his feet from that German, and then Harper doing that SUICIDAL DIVE through the ropes. 

No rematch at Mania though. WWE are missing out BIG TIME by not booking that shit.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Guess I'm in minority, but I thought the Chamber was awesome. ****1/4-****1/2.

Big E vs Swagger - ***1/4
NAO vs Usos - **3/4
Young vs Titus - **1/2
Shield/Wyatts - ****3/4
Batista/ADR - **3/4
Chamber - ****1/4-****1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big E (c) vs. Jack Swagger - ***
New Age Outlaws (c) vs. The Usos - **
Titus O'Neil vs. Darren Young - 1/2*
The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield - ****3/4
AJ (c) vs. Cameron - Didn't watch
Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio - 1/2*
Elimination Chamber - ***3/4


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

EmbassyForever said:


> Guess I'm in minority, but I thought the Chamber was awesome. ****1/4-****1/2.
> 
> Big E vs Swagger - ***1/4
> NAO vs Usos - **3/4
> ...


I'm with you I thought the Chamber match was awesome. I knew people would be throwing 5 stars at Wyatts/Shield anyway. I liked it a lot but it's going to be overrated to hell on here. I loved the Chamber Cesaro and Christian doing great, Bryan playing that babyface role better then anyone I see in years, Sheamus and Cena doing their bit and Orton just been a asshole Heel. I loved the ending, the crowd disappointed and Cole selling Bryan's Injustice brilliantly.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Big E. vs. Swagger - ***, Big E. can actually put together a nice match.

Shield vs. Wyatts - ****1/2. Last 10 minutes were some of the best stuff I've ever seen. First 10 or so were standard Shield (still great, but standard)

Elimination Chamber - ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rhodes Brothers vs. Rybaxel: ***1/2*
Big E Langston vs. Jack Swagger: ****1/4*
New Age Outlaws vs. Usos: ***3/4*
Darren Young vs. Titus O'Neil: ***1/4*
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family: *****3/4* (Eff it. It deserved that rating. Third best 6-Man Tag ever)
Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio: *LOLWTF*
AJ Lee vs. Cameron: *DUD*
Elimination Chamber: ******

Pretty good PPV. My five year old brother right now is pissed off at the ending, but he's getting closer to being hooked. He loved the Shield/Wyatt match too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I had the chamber at ****1/4 initially but took it down a 1/4* because of TWO screw jobs in a single chamber match. That's just overbooking like crazy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, the Chamber was a little too overbooked near the end for me. Still a good match though. Fun PPV as a whole with what I believe will retain MOTY throughout the year.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Good show overall for the most part. Wow did Batista look bad though. 

Big E vs Swagger : ***
Usos vs NAO: **1/4
Batista vs Del Rio: *3/4
Shield vs Wyatts: ****1/4
EC: ***3/4

Shield Vs Wyats is MOTY so far.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

What I loved about the *Wyatt/Shield match* was that not a single thing went like I thought it would in my head. I didn't expect it to be a wild brawl to start off. Maybe that's naive on my part, but Bray has always maintained such control. It seemed almost out of character for the group, though when they do fight, it's in a very loose manner.

I also expected the match to be full of mind games, with Bray trying to dig into the divisions that have arisen within the Shield.

Instead, it wasn't like that. It was hotheaded Dean sparking things off, and then The Shield using great, sound, strategy by the constant usage of the tags, until they couldn't anymore.

Then Seth went HAM in the best way. 

Then the most shocking thing of all was Reigns getting pinned clean. That ending was so brilliant, because I and I think everyone was thinking "oh, here's Reigns with that superman push against three guys." The WWE knows how much they've been pumping Reigns up, and they played the audience like a fiddle at that point, IMO. They used Reigns' invincibility to shock people.

Reigns is still protected because it was him vs. three guys, so it's a win-win. 



The *EC chamber* had something similiar, in that we all expected a screwjob, but when Bryan kicked out of that first RKO, you could tell the crowd was sooooo holding on to that glimmer of hope. They were willing that Bryan win _so_ hard. The WWE managed to maintain suspense in a moment that would otherwise be predictable.

I think that they finally used Orton's cowardly heel role in a great way tonight. From him getting the super quick, cheap shot in on Cena when the Wyatts showed up and then slowly slithering away, to him running back into his pod...I just think they booked him really well tonight for what they're going for. 


I'm certain Bryan's winning the title either at WM or before. The commentary at the end was so obviously pointing to that.


Wyatts/Shield: **** 1/2 
Elimination Chamber: ****
Big E/Swagger: *** 1/4


Batista looked awful in that Del Rio match. lol at them having to do that trick beginning, to give Batista an excuse to be laying on the ground for much of the match. Not fair to Orton if that's the main event. There's nothing that can be done, unless Batisa turns this around rapidly.

It should be a triple threat.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Had a couple of friends over and ordered the show, and I thought it was a lot of fun overall. Shield vs. Wyatts was unbelievable and I really enjoyed the Chamber. I'll be pretty pissed if Bryan ends up facing Kane at Mania, which is looking pretty likely at this point. 

The commentary at the end after Bryan got screwed is giving me some sort of hope that Bryan is either gonna go over HHH or be put in the title match at Mania. Ah well. I'll find out when I watch RAW...on Wednesday! (Fuck having an exam this week)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> Yeah, the Chamber was a little too overbooked near the end for me. Still a good match though. Fun PPV as a whole with what I believe will retain MOTY throughout the year.


Yeah, I don't think anything will top Wyatt Family vs. The Shield. Simply unreal.

Crazy thing was they lived up to the crazy amount of hype they had.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I liked the opener a bit. Not a Big E fan, but thought this match was good. That ending soured me though. It was basically Cena. Big E spent a good bit of time in the ankle lock, but no sold it hard, then hit the Big Ending big time. I thought for a second that Big E would tap, but alas.

Shield/Wyatts was of course fucking terrific. Rollins, in my opinion, stole that match. When he turns face, and he should, he'll be a fantastic underdog, as he was tonight. In fact, tonight may have turned him a bit. Harper doing the suicide dive :mark: 

Chamber was fun for me. Pleasantly surprised that Christian wasn't eliminated first, but I was hoping the whole time that Brock might show up and at least destroy everyone and leave, but doing that with the two screwjobs would have been overkill. You had to know that Cena and Bryan were both getting screwed, so that didn't so much bother. Was desperately hoping for Hunter to screw Bryan himself, but they keep forcing Kane. A big part of me thinks that they'll do Bryan/Kane at Mania, to (in their eyes) tie up the loose ends of Team HellNo. I would liked for Hunter to come down after Bryan took out Kane and screw Bryan. I liked the Summerslam 2003 callback of Sheamus kicking in the door with Orton in it. Liked it better though with Goldberg and H. Cesaro swing :mark: :mark: 

Batista/Del Rio was :lmao :lmao BOOTISTA chants :lmao Booing everything Batista did :lmao Batista gonna win the title in the main event at Mania :lmao I can't with this :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Such great matches already in 2014, and it's only February. Wyatt/Bryan @ Royal Rumble, Cena/Cesaro on Raw, and Wyatts/Shield at EC. Definitely a stronger start to the year, match-wise, than last year.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Such great matches already in 2014, and it's only February. Wyatt/Bryan @ Royal Rumble, Cena/Cesaro on Raw, and Wyatts/Shield at EC. Definitely a stronger start to the year, match-wise, than last year.


Hard to really disagree with that.

One thing that the pissed off fans can't say is that they're not delivering matches-wise this year so far.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Such great matches already in 2014, and it's only February. Wyatt/Bryan @ Royal Rumble, Cena/Cesaro on Raw, and Wyatts/Shield at EC. Definitely a stronger start to the year, match-wise, than last year.


Elimation Chamber match (am I only one who thought it was a great match) and Orton/Bryan on Raw deserve a mention. I agree some great matches so far this year :clap


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

A few EC thoughts before I go to sleep. This was the first PPV I've watched without spoilers in ages and I'm so glad I didn't check this thread beforehand. I had no idea what I was in store for with the Shield/Wyatts match and it blew me away. Amazing match. ****1/2 level stuff and the new WWE MOTY. It's gonna take something special to top that. Holy cow. I was in bed watching that shit on my laptop marking out like a little kid. Rollins was phenomenal. Luke Harper was exceptional and made me a believer with that one performance (I knew he was good but fuck). I honestly didn't think they would produce something this awesome. I was looking forward to it and expecting a good match but this was a fucking treat. I'm watching it again tomorrow, no doubt about that. The best way to sum up the whole thing is with this thing: :mark:

Didn't think much of the opener. Apart from Big E spearing Swagger to the outside (which owned) I didn't think there was a whole lot to it. NAO/Usos was fine. Actually, I was annoyed by the fact that they did that great corner spot early on and never made anything of it. Skipped Titus/Young and the divas match. BOOTISTA is the GOAT chant. It really is unbelievable that this guy is main eventing WrestleMania. I don't really mind though. The crowd hijacking everything he does and shitting on him is humorous to me.

I thought the Chamber was very good and would probably come in at #4 on my MOTY list behind Shield/Wyatts, Bryan/Wyatt and Cena/Cesaro, but I didn't love it. Maybe I'll talk about it some more tomorrow. Too tired now. I'll just say that it was predictable. Thought for sure Christian would've been eliminated first and I expected to see HHH at the end but otherwise it played out exactly like I (and I'm assuming everybody else) expected it to. Not that that's a criticism because it isn't, I'm just sayin.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Shield/Wyatts match was fucking perfect. Totally surpassed my expectations. Just so well worked, super intense and wild when it needed to be. Individual actions/mannerisms etc. just built that intensity so much and it was just... I don't even know how to put it other than to say it was pretty much perfect for what it needed to be. Immensely satisfying match for a great feud.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

I would honestly give Wyatt's/Shield *****, it was a classic. The atmosphere and everything about it was just perfect. Was MUCH better than I expected it to be.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh I forgot to mention. Whoever decided to change the steel grating in the Chamber needs to be fired. The bumps on it seemed so tame because of the lack of noise.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Brotherhood-The Rybaxel's **1/2
Big E-Swagger ***1/4
Uso's-NAO **
Titus-Young *1/2
Shield-Wyatt's ****3/4
AJ-Cameron *Ambrose nope gif*
Batista-Del Rio lol *
Chamber match ****1/4


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Very strong 2014 for the WWE already, especially in terms of ring work. Bray/Bryan, Orton/Bryan, Orton/Cesaro, Cena/Cesaro, Real Americans vs Sheamus/Christian, some Shield tags on Raw and SD, and now *Shield vs Wyatts* :mark: :mark: :mark:

This is definitely WWE's MOTY so far, and probably even The Shield's best match. Have it at ****1/2 right now, but after a rewatch, may go up to ****3/4. coz I really can't think of any mistakes or anything they could have done to make it better. A rare and excellent mix of great action, athleticism, storytelling, psychology and character work. Absolutely incredible.

Even the Chamber match was good, but two screwjobs in the same match kinda brought it down a bit.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The only negative thing I'll say about Shield-Wyatt's is we should have seen what Bray did to Ambrose to take him out.

Obviously that's not the fault of the guys in the match though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

OH HOLY GOD DAT 6 MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

I mean just WOW. I was afraid that these guys couldn't possibly live up to the incredible hype surrounding this match and then they go and do that. I genuinely lost my mind during that and was almost up out of my seat towards the end. Absolutely incredible. I want to give it 5* and honestly I can't really find a reason not to. I've watched it twice already and am still blown away. Just fricking perfection really with every single guy in the match looking like a GOAT. I don't even know what to say. Right now I'm giving it ****3/4 and when I watch it again it could go up. FUCK WWE for not waiting until Mania to do this. God damn I would have had a heart attack if I was watching this live in the Superdome lol. That's my only complaint and it's a 100% selfish complaint. Un-fucking-believable. When Rollins breaks away and turns face it's going to be :mark:, Roman Reigns is just a badass son of a bitch, Ambrose is a lunatic, Wyatt is as compelling a character as I've ever seen, Harper is a boss and Rowan is probably the lesser of the bunch but still brilliant to watch in this role. Jesus, I'm still blown away. 

*****3/4* and MOTY by a million bazillion miles. If we get something better than that this year then we're in for a treat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shield/Wyatts - FUCK YEAH!!! :mark: All what was expected and more, fucking loved it. Thanks fuck.

Batista/Del Rio - :lol Good crowd though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ELAMBINASHION CHIMBLER

Biggie Vs King Swaggie

Well fook me, this was like, pretty good. Best Langston match ever? Probably since all his other matches aisde from a couple of tags (with good partners Vs THE SHIELD) have been utter wank.

Disappointed Swagger didn't win . Fans were really into the match though which was awesome, and they seemed to be cheering for BOTH guys. Swagger has been good all year so far, and Langston seemed to go the extra mile in this one to put on a good showing. Nice opener.

BARF NUDE BURRETT randomly shows up and... I zoned out. I'm sure he said something pointless and shitty.

Urgh, Hutt Hogen is back. Good thing about him being the WM host is that he won't wrestler. But sucks that he'll probably do some awful promo to take time away from MATCHES just like that useless twat Ricky at WM 27.

OLD AGE OUTHOUSES VS THE WHOSE HOS. I think I'll skip this crap. LOL the old men retain the belts.

Bob Knows Birratt is back. Zoned out again. I think he's a Bryan fan. He was chanting Yes anyway...

Tit O Noel Vs Diddum Old. Skipping this shit too.

Bap No Bummett AGAIN? It's like they don't want me to watch this crap.

:lmao The Jiz is an "expert" panellist for EC. Roy Mysterious and Mark Jindrak are there too.

Was... was that Laffy "The Ox" Hunning at ringside for the pre-show match? Lol, trying their best to make people care about Cuntis Oxel.

And enough of the shitty attempt at humour... it's fucking SHIELD VS WYATT time :mark:. Fans are chanting "this is awesome" before the match even starts. HYPE~!

I'm gonna take up smoking so I can have one after watching that. Expectations: MET. Tremendous. Everything we all hoped it would be, and perhaps even a little more. Roman was built up as a fucking GOD at the end, but everyone looked tremendous. MOTY so far? Yes. Absolutely. Beats out Bryan Vs Bray. Right up their with the Shield TLC.

AJ! Hai AJ . A random title defence. Oh well, time to skippy skip skip mcskipp.

:lmao Batista Vs Del Rio. Like I'm gonna waste any fucking time on this.

Chamber match time!!!

OMG CHRISTIAN MADE IT INTO THE CHAMBER WITHOUT BEING MAULED AND HAVING HIS SPOT STOLEN!!! :mark:

Sheamus & Cesaro starting this thing :mark:. And that's all I'm gonna write for now. Like the 6 man I'm just gonna watch.

Match was super. I like the fact they didn't eliminate anyone until after all 6 guys entered. Tons of great spots and I loved how Sheamus and Cesaro, who started the match, just kept going back to each other for some uppercut and punch exchanges. Reminded me of the 09 RR with Show and Undertaker constantly meeting back up to cave each others face in. Christian took some wicked bumps. Powerbomb into one of the pods was :mark: followed up with an uppercut. I swear on about 3 different occasions he defied physics and fell through the ropes as if they weren't even there. Shocked that he wasn't eliminated first, but he did end up going right after Sheamus lol.

Felt that they over did the "going through the pod" spot. Happened what, 4 times? And other than Sheamus kicking down Orton's pod to get to him, they all looked so weak. When Bryan went through the first time it almost looked like an accident lol.

Shenanigans for the last 2 eliminations, but I guess that was expected. Wyatt's take out Cena to build to that WM match, and the moment I saw Kane come down I knew how the match was gonna end. Orton was favoured to win from the get go so no surprise or disappointment there really, even if I didn't want him to win. Overall, a great match and excellent use of the wonderful talent involved. Better than 05? Probably not. Might be second best though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Swagger/Big.E- ***1/4, wow really surprised by this, great match. Very good choice for an opener
Usos/NAO- **1/2, enjoyed this in a very weird way. Entertaining bout, sad that the Usos didnt go over here
Titus/Young- *, this match receives a star, simply because Titus is a freakin beast
Shield/Wyatts- *****, maybe after a month or two this match wouldnt be a 5 star one anymore, but now after only 8 hours since the PPV, this is a masterpiece. This was perfect as Shield's last match
ADR/Bootista- DUD, nothing to say here
EC match- ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Shield/Wyatt's is why i watch wrestling. It was phenomenal.

Chamber was good too, until the screwy finish. I know it was obvious and predictable but since last August there has been ONE PPV that hasn't ended in a screwy finish. It's lazy booking.

Del Rio getting cheered over Boo-tista was fucking awesome too.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Man, the Batista backlash is off the charts lol.

Astounding.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I didn't even think Batista was that bad yesterday.

I think the backlash is more based around the fact that they feel Batista is essentially holding back a new era by relegating Bryan to a match that doesn't close the show, and the fact that universally it seems as if there's only a very, very small group of fans who actually want to see Batista-Orton. I simply don't think we'd have this problem if we were getting Batista/Brock or something that the fans saw as interesting, but clearly something must be done about this unless the WWE wants to embarrass themselves and have the fans shit all over one of their biggest shows ever at Wrestlemania XXX.

As for the matches last night? SETH MOTHERFUCKING ROLLINS. THAT IS ALL :mark: :mark:.

(Side Note: Shout out to JACK SWAGGER for that awesome performance in the first match on the card, dude can be a mainstay in the midcard if Zeb stays, it's clear that with him by Swagger's side that Swagger has the crowd reacting to his matches better)


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Shield/Wyatts - ****1/2
EC - ****


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

LEL at WWE.com being overloaded to shit right now. :vince$

I'm diving into the network this weekend though. No friends, partying, or anything even remotely social for me.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Big E/Swagger* - **1/4
*NAO/Usos* - **
*Titus/Darren* - *
*Shield/Wyatts* - ****1/4
*Divas* - nope
*Bootista/ADR* - *3/4
*Chamber* - ***3/4

Undercard was largely what I expected with the I-C match being a bit better than anticipated. No way was I going to watch a fucking Cameron match. Batista/Del Rio wasn't that bad but :lmao at the crowd reaction. Orton/Batista are completely screwed.

Chamber was good, but not one of the best. Resembled a car wreck at times with bits of the pod all over the place. Remember when they passed it off as glass instead of a transparent wobble board? If it was Triple H and not Kane costing Bryan I wouldn't have a problem, but this is unnerving me. I pray they have Bryan beating Kane in one of the next two Raws otherwise they're fighting at Mania.

Shield/Wyatts obviously was incredible. Although all six performed well, to me Rollins shone the most. Kept expecting Ambrose to return at the end and get in the way of Reigns but maybe they're saving that for a rematch this week mark?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just got WWE Network :yes :yes :yes

Oh, and I'm gonna have to miss RAW tonight, but if a Bryan/Kane feud is set up.... :HHH


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't think Batista was that bad imo. Sure he didn't have enough offense but that fit fine with the story of the match. Del rio attacked batista cheapily before the match started so obviously the momentum was with him to continue the attack throughout the match. I felt Batista sold well, not too bad. It wasn't a very good match of course but it's not enough to ruin a fantastic PPV event.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :lmao Batista Vs Del Rio. Like I'm gonna waste any fucking time on this.


Cal wins the thread. Possibly forever.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Batista was beyond awful last night. 

8 minute match, Del Rio carried all of it. Dave hit a few punches, a Spear and then won. He spent most of the match on the mat.

That Deal With It at the end tho, what a babyface :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

If any one of the three members of The Shield don't become bonafide main eventers, then I'm probably going to do fuck all, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. Like... The Wyatt's were great ofcourse, but The Shield completely stole the show with every little thing they did. Oh lord. Dean Ambrose has his best performance so far and I know that to some, that might not be saying much, but Jesus Christ he looked great as a character and as an equal member of the Shield. Rollins was just unbelievable and showed me exactly what I knew already, but confirmed that he can do it on the grand stage - That he has the potential to be a #1 babyface in the company, in the matter of seconds the guy had everyone in the arena on their feet and believe me when I say that's the minimum he can do, one of the few pro's of The Shield breaking up is his singles run, which I'm sure will be nothing short of phenomenal. And Reigns' hot tag was fantastic and I thought he put in his career performance as well, and despite being helped out a hell of a lot by his booking, he looked like a legit. star. 

That's not a slight on The Wyatt Family either, BTW, they more than played their part and any other than man team wouldn't have been able to go up against The Shield like that. Harper was class, but we already knew that (or at least you should have) and Bray is fantastic as the maniacal leader. Rowan was Rowan and by proxy was the least impressive in the match, but he more than did his job and added to the match.

Unbelievable. At least five of the six men in that match are STARS. Fuck. Then add in everyone else (Cesaro, Sheamus, Bryan, Zayn, Swagger, Ziggler, Del Rio) and if the WWE handles their talent right, the future is bright as fuck, at least in terms of match quality, which is all I generally care about. 

I haven't enjoyed a match like that since Punk/Lesnar, and before then it would probably be Punk/Cena MITB.

Ps. Did I say how much of a stud Rollins is?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Last night's PPV was really fun.

Big E and Swagger had a really good match imo. Can't ask for a better opener. ***1/4

Didn't really watch much of Usos vs NAO.

O'Neil vs Young was meh. Breaking the PTP was a stupid decision and neither guy is gonna get over from this.

Shield vs Wyatts :mark: :mark: :mark: 

The crowd really made that 6 man even more special. This is awesome chants before the match even began? Hell motherfucking yeah!

ADR/Batista I enjoyed. Why? Cause it was fun cheering Del Rio and booing Batista. The crowd made that match really fun to watch lol

Chamber match was okay imo. The ending was a tad bit overbooked but overall it was a good match. ***3/4


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Chamber is legit ****1/4 , every single segment meshed well. Haven't watched Shield/Wyatts yet.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol @ Del Rio becoming an on the fly babyface cause of how much the crowd hated Batista. Brilliant. 

Just bored of it all now though, even when D-Bry get's the title (which I'm not even sure will happen at this rate) the lead up to it will only be remembered as WWE dropping the ball and pissing everyone off on the way. Like I'll be happy when he wins it but more in a "about fucking time" way not "yes he's finally overcome the Authority". Yawn. 

If it's Kane vs. Bryan at Mania I'll be sooooo disappointed. Holding out hope he at least gets Triple H. Should be in the title match though, Orton vs. Batista is gonna be a shambles, crowd will shit all over it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watched it again. 

Oh My God. 

Shield. 

Wyatts.

*****3/4*

Legit.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

OOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW LLLLLLAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

SHIELD WYATTS

INCREDIBLE

SETH ROLLINS IS THE KING OF THE WORLD. GIVE HIM A CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Shield/Wyatts​*
Yea this was phenomenal, top flight stuff and clear cut MOTY. I was in awe of the match and just kept getting sucked in more and more.I have to give props to all 6 guys, I was probably the only person not :mark: during the build but I was a fan during the match. I got that special feeling watching it I only get very few times (brock/punk was the last time). Excellent stuff, I need to rewatch it though see if it holds up as high as the first viewing.I will say I actually thought the Wyatts stole the show.Dont get me wrong rollins and ambrose were STUDS, but was just in awe of Bray and Harper, and even rowan at times. Just the viciousness, aura they brought blew me away. Just a classic

---------------

I thought the ec was p.solid as well, took a bit to get going which was odd w/ the 2 starting off but when it did it did very well. Wasnt a fan of the finishing stretch + finish. Bryan/Kane can fuck off if it happens. The spot where Sheamus Brogue Kicked Orton pod was hilarous :lmao



Rest of the show was :lmao worthy, Good Lord shocked Batista/ADR was THAT bad like DUD worthy. I honest fear for Camron in ring, like I fear for her safety, girl doesnt know how to wrestle at all, girl took a bump and landed right on her neck on the outside, Good Lord


My stream was fucked for Swagger/Big E which I was looking forward to how was it ?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

some dude on reddit said:


> This is everything Batista did in his match last night.
> 3 punches
> 3 elbows
> Move out of the way
> ...


:lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BOOTISTA

:batista3

I do feel for him though. Completely not his fault what is going on right now but his attitude certainly isn't helping matters. I've accepted Orton/Batista for what it is. I'm not thrilled about it of course but I've now placed my hope in the fans. I'll be in the Superdome and I'm certain it will be an experience to say the least. 

#DealtWithIt


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Only watched the two matches worth anything so for me this PPV is good. That and BAD NEWS BARRETT which is fucking awesome. I've seen like two BNB skits before and just heard everyone shit over it. Gimmick is the best goofiest heel act since when Michael Cole was on a tear and it's really the same gimmick actually with the stand and the goofy catchphrases. I howled when his podium broke but the lines it produced were brilliant. It's goofy heel 101 and goofy heels are one of my favourite pro wrestling things. I need to make a point of watching every BNB skit ever now. The hammer is brilliant. Shame he didn't pull out CAN I PLEASE HAVE SOME DECORUM here because that line is goofy brilliance as he slams his little hammer on top a 20ft podium that rises up as his music plays. I know anyone who thinks Barrett has something will detest this but he's reached his pinnacle here. It gets him heat, air time and he's brilliant in the role. Childish goofy heels with goofy catchphrases and shtick rule the world. I can't wait for the UK show where he does this gimmick on Americans and he gets the biggest pops of the night and he becomes Fandango 2014. If we get BNB skits after every match at Mania then I bet it'll be one of the top 3 things on Mania.

Caught the end of Big E/Swagger too as finishing runs are fun when you have money on them. This finished pretty well at least. Big E has cool charisma and some really bossy spots for a guy who looks like he does. I never thought of it like this but what Mike said about him is bang on the money imo. He's definitely got something that can be developed to make him a reliable babyface for sure. Caught the end of the NAO match too and that was pretty embarrassing. They look really old and slow (probs because they are) and it makes anyone facing them look just as bad. Wasn't the idea they benefited from being Hunter's buddies? Because other than turning on Punk I can't remember anything to do with them and The Authority so it's just them playing heels and beating everyone in the tag division. Oh and they do it while doing all their babyface shtick which gets them more over than the babyfaces they're facing. Great booking.

Shield/Wyatts owned. MOTD is stretching it for me but WWE MOTD might be feasible. It's not WWE MOTD for me but I guess it's in that region. Not that the standard is shockingly high for that though. Best American Trios match ever is maybe a better shout though but again not much high end competition. I thought Bray/Brayn maybe just edged it for MOTY so far too. But regardless of all that geeky stuff this was great and more importantly everyone looked like stars in it. Rowan looked good and Harper got to get in his stand out spots. I knew the Brodie dive was coming but that only made it better and it's cool that he got to pull that out here. I actually thought Ambrose looked as good as anyone here. In great settings like this is where he excels. It's the run of the mill 5 minute TV matches where it's too much for me because it's like doing the act too much for the sake of it. Any of these guys bar probably Rowan could be a big babyface hit when the time is right with the right booking too. I thought Rollins' style worked here but in a different way to how Ambrose and Bray got the violence and hatred over. That whole sequence starting with the top rope german was just as hateful as the brawling outside in it's own way and Rollins' charisma got a nice chance to shine through there too. Reigns is always great but here he was awesome. I've always liked his little nuances like when he's on the apron but they got to excel here, even when it came down to being 3 on 1 and he looked all shit I'm fucked here but time to step up anyway. Sucks that whatever happened to Ambrose wasn't filmed but the suspense of not knowing was probably better than whatever they did do. Table spot was super and made perfect use of them 3. In a perfect world The Shield will stay together coming out of Mania and these two forces will cross paths again and they'll do this again but with a new layer added to it next time. Because what these 6 have is extremely organic and really rare in WWE so for this to be over and out would be a shame. They don't need to do the generic 3 PPV stretch feud but have something that is always lingering throughout 2014 and explodes again around Summerslam would be awesome and they have a really big match if they pair them together again. Crowd was really good all night too but especially for this match and really pushed it up towards that higher tier of match. 

The Chamber match was good but I thought there were at least 3 better. The 1st one, The Rey/Edge one and the 05 one were all comfortably better for me. Final part of it hurt it a lot imo. Up until Cesaro was eliminated it was an easy MOTYC. Cesaro/Sheamus was the perfect starting pair and kinda made up for of all the combinations in the build these two were the pair that didn't get a singles match. I thought them 2 and Christian were all comfortably better than Bryan in this too. Cal, did you put money on Sheamus going first like I told you too? Ha if you didn't. Nice little winner there on top of my acca for the show. Sheamus elimination was really good and Sheamus/Christian is at least something I'll probably look forward to come Mania. The Chamber gimmick has run it's course now though tbh. If this was the same match without the cage and guys came out from the back every 5 minutes I don't think it would have been any worse. The pod spots are past their best now and nobody really wanted to take big bumps on the steel which is fine but it makes the Chamber kinda useless as a weapon. That "glass" looks so undangerous too. Orton/Sheamus pod spot was cool though. I was really hoping Sheamus was gonna just punch his fist through the pod which would have owned. Or just slammed his own head through and then stared at Orton like a psycho. 1st half was MOTYC material. Then they kinda ruined the good build up. Or at least limited how good it could be. Wyatts run in was annoying in a gimmick match where the idea is nobody can get in or out. Cole wondering how they got in while they're showing the door wide open amused me though. Cena/Bray is odd but kinda cool and also kinda annoying that Bray is getting CENA AT WRESTLEMANIA this early while guys like Cesaro and Cody will be lucky to make the card. Hopefully Cena actually cares about Bray costing him a title match this time though because they did the same spot at the Rumble and Cena didn't seem to care. Kane run in was what it was and has been throughout this abomination of an angle. In Kane's defence he was being the good buy until that evil troll dived on him. Dude had a right to be pissed. The Bryan wins the title but gets screwed out of it thing is just whatever now (it always but for just about everyone it really is now) but I'm also glad because him being stuck with Orton and/or Batista would have been horrible. At least with Hunter there's more to work with and more importantly more heat to their match. I'm still betting on him facing Kane though and Punk coming back to face Hunter. That wouldn't surprise me one bit. It seems like they're booking Bryan with Kane so strongly too in case that does happen. Bryan kicking out of the RKO was cool but also should have been saved for when he actually beats him. It really means barely anything but I also disliked Orton leaping back up from the Running Knee straight after like it was nothing. 










That might be even better than RYBACK MITCHELL.

Also Cal 500 Internal Server Error :leslie*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't bet on anything for the EC.

And I am aware of the error. Been on and off all day. I blame the network. Or my hosting. Maybe both.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy fuck that Bad News Moyes gif is phenomenal


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I don't read in here much these days but thoughts on Bad News Barrett? I can't be the only to see how great this gimmick is right?*


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

It depends on what he's saying. The stuff when the podium fucked up was great, the stuff about the Olympics was garbage. Either way Barrett is such a natural speaker. And twat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Barrett is a white Kofi Kingston to me. Utterly pointless, useless and a waste of oxygen. Chris Hero got fired and these two are still in existence?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*The Olympics part was brilliant because it's so goofy. He's like that guy in High School who would mock everyone for literally anything and he couldn't find anything to mock then he'd then he'd just mock something that isn't even mockable. *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SETH MOTHERFUCKING ROLLINS

That is all.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I swear on about 3 different occasions he defied physics and fell through the ropes as if they weren't even there.


:lol yeah, me and my buddies were cracking up at him glitching through the ropes like a video game. Good show, Cap'n!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Someone at PWO pitched the idea of Barrett flying over Mania in a blimp for a BNB segment and I whole-heartedly approve that suggestion.

Shield/Wyatts was excellent I thought, and off hand I can only think of the 5/23/92 six man and the RNR/Duggan vs Express/Ladd from Mid South as being close to that level. In my dreams they'd have a concession stand esque brawl with Harper trying to dislodge the teeth of Ambrose and punches so fierce someone left the match with a worse jaw than Tessmacher, but I knew it would have to be privy to WWE procedure, but what they mustered was fabulous. Thought Harper was the best guy in the match, but nobody was below very good. His cut off spots were tremendous, his facial expressions as ever were excellent and he's really not far behind Wyatt at all in terms of method acting/character portrayal. His offence was also brutal and he timed his highspots very well, in addition to working well in the FIP spells to build the heat and not let the match stagnate. Rollins was given a great platform to show off with and seize centre stage and delivered with aplomb. The german suplex spot was obviously nuts but he also had some great instinctive hope spots and the mad dive after Harper's (I figured he was about to do the dive but it still shocked me when he wasn't cut off, looked like a Hansen esque cannonball looking to take out the first five rows). 

Ambrose was great in that theatrical and maniacal state, and I loved the way he ate the Harper big boot, complete with a Flair esque flop on his back on the outside after rolling out of the ring. It had a deliberate pace, but I thought they built a great escalation which threatened to spiral out of control at any moment, and the result was a great organic build to the crazy last ten minutes which featured moment after moment of insane sequences. Rowan looked excellent I thought as the simple yet brutal enforcer, and he threw some swell punches during the Reigns dual, on top of working well throughout as simpleton lackey. I like the way Wyatt is given short but frantic segments in matches, as it allows him to come off destructive and violent without having to find ways to fill up time in between. I also adored the symbolic callbacks during the finishing stretch, first with Harper and Wyatt teasing the powerbomb which has been The Shield's staple spot, followed by Ambrose saving Rollins but ultimately falling prey to Wyatt and thereby allowing The Wyatts to manipulate the numbers game. The final segment was tremendous with Reigns being given a great showcase to explode and threaten a miracle comeback (loved the setup for the apron dropkick), and the finish was great in having Wyatt look strong by obliterating Reigns just when he threatened to win the match, with the final touch of Harper sacrificing himself by eating the spear just being the icing on the cake.

I figured Ambrose would return and then bail as Reigns went for the tag at the end, so glad to see they decided to not disband them there and then. In a just world, I think they can tease the breakup more and perhaps work to showcase Rollins and Ambrose in addition to Reigns being centrepiece, because there is no immediate rush to break them up and the way they've built the slow tension has been commendable. I do worry the fallout tonight will centre on Ambrose's disappearance, with him turning, but hopefully I'm wrong.


As for the chamber, it had some very nice segments but overall I didn't think it was close to the six man. Agree Cesaro, Sheamus and Christian were comfortably better than Bryan, who between the lax selling of the arm (I know he's far better at limb selling, so unless they decided he needed to look strong and negate the impact of the shoulder injury I'm not sure) and some of his offence looking weaker and rougher than it has in the past (corner dropkick sequence to Orton especially) had a less than stellar night. At this point, I think I'm just desensitized to Chamber matches and it feels now more than ever like they're just a way to have signature spots done on the steel, in the same way your typical gimmick/hardcore match sees the match wrestled almost identically to a standard match, but with certain spots done differently. Still, I dug how they worked back to Cena/Bryan alongside Bryan/Orton, in addition to furthering Cena/Cesaro who had the best sequence of the match imo during the STF reversal > Gutwrench powerbomb into hurricanrana > AA > STF tap. Christian really excelled as well as the opportunistic weasel and I loved the lengths he went to use the Chamber to his advantage (his counter of Swiss Death by scaling the wall, before eating the Powerbomb was bossy) such as his focused assault of Bryan's arm. Orton's stooging has been done before in these situations but was still a fine spot to tease his cowardice and being overwhelmed, and Sheamus/Cesaro really re-affirmed why they should get a ten minute match at Mania (at least), though Sheamus/Christian would hardly be a poor substitute. Still, a few of the spots irked me in terms of setup, with guys openly preventing eliminations just for the sole purpose of eating a spot (I'm not trying to be nit-picky). The RKO nearfall got me initially, though the minute Kane stayed around I still felt Bryan wasn't winning (the small package was a good tease though given how protected a finisher it's been for Bryan). The overbooking was deflating, if only because the crowd notably picked up on what they were forshadowing and you could feel the heat empty as realisation set in.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *The Olympics part was brilliant because it's so goofy. He's like that guy in High School who would mock everyone for literally anything and he couldn't find anything to mock then he'd then he'd just mock something that isn't even mockable. *



I don't mind the BNB gimmick at all, it can be pretty entertaining. The WWE really missed an opportunity with him though. JR brought this up, instead of sending out poor Rey Rey as the #30 entrant into the RR, they should have sent Barrett out there and he could have said "I've got some Bad News for you, Daniel Bryan is not in the Rumble, BUT I AM!" :mark:

That would have made me like Barrett more than I ever have previously, because he does fuck all for me in the ring.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WWE NETWORK :mark: :mark: :mark: 

I got so excited I didn't know what to watch. WWE Countdown it is :lol. #10 WHATCHA GONNA DO BROTHER? Yeah, I marked just a little bit. This thing is flawless. Prepare to have no life lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting with Wrestlemania 20, then Backlash. Still a bunch of lag problems with the PPVs. Not so much an issue on the computer, but the PS3 was pretty bad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I am so jealous of those of you who are able to watch. On firefox, nothing shows up. On IE, it's just buffering forever. I tried on iPhone and when I login, it says I'm not authorized to use the Network. Haven't tried on PS3 yet but maybe I should.

Will just straight onto one of the 2004 shows with Benoit in the main event. Already seen screenshots of him and I'm :mark: at the sight of it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm just sitting here with absolutely no idea where to even begin. Technically I should be doing some school work but I have a feeling I won't be getting much done this week. I can't believe how slick and easy to use this is. Absolutely loaded with content and they barely have half the stuff on it yet. I'm very impressed. When they eventually put full years of Raw on there I'm fucked. The quality is amazing too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Already got all the reminders set for all the new shows, 

NXT Thursday looks incredible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll have to watch them all next day because network or not, I'm not sitting up until 2/3am for wrestling every week. NXT definitely looks loaded though, can't wait for that. I'm really interested in all the backstage access stuff they have on offer, like the Raw Backstage Pass for later tonight. I wonder what it's going to be like and if they'll start ending Raw in a way that you need the network to see what happens next. They probably will the fuckers.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I've got it all set, it's so sad 

watch the pre show, download raw and watch, raw after show or whatever it's called. every tuesday.

will watch NXT live though, can't miss Cesaro/Zayn.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Other than the shitty Orton/Kane ending, my only other complaint of the Chamber match last night was Cesaro's elim. Just seemed really weak. He was killer in the match though and Cena did lock the STF in a little better than usual, even though Cesaro tapped way too quickly.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm sure this will be appreciated by a lot of folks in here:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do they list all the matches and stuff for each show? Like if you clicked on the MSG from October 28th 1991, would it tell you the card and shit?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Holy shit, :banderas @ WWE Network's current catalog of shows. Lots of shit I have been meaning to watch. Especially PPVs, and a few documentaries. Pretty cool stuff thus far.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Do they list all the matches and stuff for each show? Like if you clicked on the MSG from October 28th 1991, would it tell you the card and shit?


Nope. Nothing said about the full card, they just give you a short taste of it. Like for Backlash 2004, you'll get "Triple H and HBK compete in a Triple Threat Match for the World Championship. Randy Orton and Catcus Jack Battle for the IC Title."


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that's shit lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If anyone stumbles across 'MSG 2/19/79', that card has the incredible Backlund/Valentine broadway which is the best the company has done imo. Well worth checking out if that show is available on The Network.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The match aired back on the old Classics on Demand so I wouldn't be surprised to see it show up on the Network too. Definitely worth sitting through. I'm hoping for some more BACKLUND MSG shows (1981 Slaughter please).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

(Y) nice. Yeah I couldn't recommend the Backlund/Slaughter '81 matches anymore, in addition to the Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight from '81 as well IIRC.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Was trying to watch Royal Rumble 01 but it just freezes


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This Network :mark:

I've already watched 4 Benoit unedited matches, now I'm onto Mankind/Taker Revenge of the Taker, seeing it in great quality for the first time ever! Soooooo happy, just wait until 6 months from now and the content is doubled with old Raw's and Smackdowns :mark:

C2D I sent you a PM trying to help with your issue. IE seems to work best, a few shows have taken 2+ minutes to load but once they start there isn't any lag or anything and I can skip around without any buffering. Maybe being out of the USA is the problem? Have other people in the Europe been having the same issues you have?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> C2D I sent you a PM trying to help with your issue. IE seems to work best, a few shows have taken 2+ minutes to load but once they start there isn't any lag or anything and I can skip around without any buffering. Maybe being out of the USA is the problem? Have other people in the Europe been having the same issues you have?


I've tried IE too. It looks like it's loading but it stays the same for an eternity. I'll put it in the background now, maybe it works. On firefox, everything works except the video wont load.

Being outside of the US might be a problem, I've heard others say they have the same problem. Might find a US proxy to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:banderas


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I've tried IE too. It looks like it's loading but it stays the same for an eternity. I'll put it in the background now, maybe it works. On firefox, everything works except the video wont load.
> 
> Being outside of the US might be a problem, I've heard others say they have the same problem. Might find a US proxy to see if it makes a difference.


I'm watching on Chrome from UK and it has been absolutely perfect for me. It takes about 30 seconds or so to load but once it's up and running, no lag whatsoever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'm watching on Chrome from UK and it has been absolutely perfect for me. It takes about 30 seconds or so to load but once it's up and running, no lag whatsoever.


Installing chrome now to see if it works. Tried everything but no luck so far.

EDIT: Getting the "Video not available" error on chrome.  Looks like I might have to wait until traffic dies down in some shape or form before anything works.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I keep getting a media error


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I keep getting media error goddamit. Screw the Network....for now lol.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

Working good for me. Sitting outside my work watching Hardcore Heaven


----------



## Gutwrench (Jan 8, 2014)

There's too many damn comments in here. Is anyone else having a problem with the Xbox 360 WWE app verifying either the email or password? I've had no problem getting on the iphone, but this network is next to worthless if I can't stream in on my tv.

EDIT: Never mind, apparently the problem is widespread.


----------



## epbbi (Feb 24, 2014)

Starbuck said:


> I'm watching on Chrome from UK and it has been absolutely perfect for me. It takes about 30 seconds or so to load but once it's up and running, no lag whatsoever.


Except for the stuttering and choppiness inherent in every Flash video application, regardless of connection quality.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> (Y) nice. Yeah I couldn't recommend the Backlund/Slaughter '81 matches anymore, in addition to the Slaughter/Patterson Alley Fight from '81 as well IIRC.


Look at the picture posted above, Slaughter/Patterson there [4/6/81].  


Went and searched out the card for the 6/27/77 show. Nothing terribly exciting overall, but it has a well length Andre tag match, so :mark:


----------



## bboy (May 22, 2005)

love to see lawler, cole, jbl trying to access the wwe network live on raw and the error message "Media Error: Video not available" pops up


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

epbbi said:


> Except for the stuttering and choppiness inherent in every Flash video application, regardless of connection quality.


I don't have any problems. It's working just fine for me.


----------



## Klorel (Jun 15, 2013)

Sorry, Posted in the wrong Thread.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Got media error this morning, but I tested it a bit ago and it's running beautifully.

Then again, I am at school, so I should probably be doing something more productive.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

They're showing the Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls Match right now, and when Cesaro was making his entrance, they just edited over his introduction's audio, with Chimel saying just "Cesaro". :lol


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

PGSucks said:


> Got media error this morning, but I tested it a bit ago and it's running beautifully.
> 
> Then again, I am at school, so I should probably be doing something more productive.


I had it running earlier today. Came back on a few hours later to the media error too. Will be a very frustrating experience if it persists tomorrow. Bloody hell. Was going to watch Starrcade '85 again too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

RhodesForWHC said:


> They're showing the Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls Match right now, and when Cesaro was making his entrance, they just edited over his introduction's audio, with Chimel saying just "Cesaro". :lol


What the fuck is wrong with them?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> What the fuck is wrong with them?


I didn't mean the entire entrance's audio, I meant the part where the ring announcer announced his name.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The media errors are STILL here 

is it possibly because I got the free trial?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm probably the only fucker on here who isn't on the Network some how lol


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> The media errors are STILL here
> 
> is it possibly because I got the free trial?


I got it too, but everything is fine. Probably just WWE experiencing issues today due to too many sign-ups, etc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anybody think Punk might return tonight?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> I'm probably the only fucker on here who isn't on the Network some how lol


lol I didn't even sign up. 

I'm gonna wait until April, don't really mind missing the free trial or whatever. Just gotta get a VPN and I'm good to go... got my cousin's address in Chicago to use as well.

I'm still going nuts about the six man tag match last night. It's one of my favourite matches in a LOOONG time.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Anybody think Punk might return tonight?


Doubt it, if he were to return, it would make most sense to do so next week.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Doubt it, if he were to return, it would make most sense to do so next week.


Is next week in Chicago? If so yeah. Kind of hoping he doesn't come back though. My mind is set on HHH/Bryan.

Which big match are they gonna give a gimmick to this year? I'm thinking Cena/Wyatt.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

^ Undertaker/Brock will be No Holds Barred I imagine.



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Didn't bet on anything for the EC.


If you bet on the match winners, I don't think you were going to win much. Betting on Titus/Orton/Wyatts/Batista would've net you 8p on a £1 bet :lol


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Is next week in Chicago? If so yeah. Kind of hoping he doesn't come back though. My mind is set on HHH/Bryan.
> 
> Which big match are they gonna give a gimmick to this year? I'm thinking Cena/Wyatt.


Yeah, next week is in Chicago. I'd hope that he'd come back after 'Mania, perhaps at Payback, or SummerSlam, and come back in the form he was at last year, where he wasn't half assing. 

As for the gimmick match, probably. Bryan/HHH may be No-DQ or something of that nature, but I think the only real gimmick match will be Cena/Wyatt. I don't know what type of match it would be, though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Is next week in Chicago? If so yeah. Kind of hoping he doesn't come back though. My mind is set on HHH/Bryan.
> 
> Which big match are they gonna give a gimmick to this year? I'm thinking Cena/Wyatt.




I'm thinking 2. The Undertaker/Lesnar will be a no holds bared match and I think we'll see a tag team ladder match of some sort.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think tonight we learn more about Daniel Bryan's Wrestlemania situation. If we see something happen tonight that points to him getting in the main event, I do think CM Punk returns next week in Chicago. If they still build to Bryan-HHH, then no Punk.

Lesnar-Taker will surely be No Holds Barred.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock would kill Taker in a no holds barred match :lmao 

Wouldn't be surprised if Wyatt-Cena was HIAC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

haribo said:


> ^ Undertaker/Brock will be No Holds Barred I imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> If you bet on the match winners, I don't think you were going to win much. Betting on Titus/Orton/Wyatts/Batista would've net you 8p on a £1 bet :lol


Exactly why I didn't bet. Wasn't worth it lol.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Anyone else excited for NXT Arrival?! 

Zayn/Cesaro should be a MOTYC, Paige/Emma will probably be one hell of a match & Neville/Bo should be awesome too. Can't wait for Thursday. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey I hate to flood this thread with network questions but do you need to put in billing info to get access to videos? because I clicked free trial w/o putting in a CC or anything and now I cant watch anything


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So weird everything works great on Internet Exploder and nothing works on Chrome :lmao Gonna start WWF 2001


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Hey I hate to flood this thread with network questions but do you need to put in billing info to get access to videos? because I clicked free trial w/o putting in a CC or anything and now I cant watch anything


Then don't when there is a Network Thread.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Just saw Benoit v Finlay _Judgment Day 2006_...





And it was fucking amazing, thank you to everyone who recommended it. **** for sure. It kept my attention for the whole match and worked a physical style. Just plain awesome right there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

And now that you said that im downloading IE :lol

Hitman my post got :buried there


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

NastyYaffa said:


> Anyone else excited for NXT Arrival?!
> 
> Zayn/Cesaro should be a MOTYC, Paige/Emma will probably be one hell of a match & Neville/Bo should be awesome too. Can't wait for Thursday. :mark:


Cesaro/Zayn is happening again?! :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Read that there will be another Batista dvd on the way. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait for the 2010-2014 stuff they include :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Re-watched the two big matches from EC.

I liked Shield/Wyatts even more the second time. I feel comfortable calling it my favorite match in recent years. So much win.

The Chamber was very good, especially prior to the interferences at the end. I actually thought Christian was the best guy in the match. Cesaro had some great moments as usual but he had a couple awkward ones too. I'm totally cool with Christian/Sheamus or Cesaro/Sheamus at Mania. Either of them would be a great addition to the under-card.



Spoiler: dat list. dat 2014



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
3. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
4. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
5. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
6. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
7. Cesaro v Randy Orton - SmackDown (2/14/14)
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Honorable mentions:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Read that there will be another Batista dvd on the way.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Maybe Batista-Orton will make it :mark:.

In all seriousness (Switching gears a little bit) though, Wyatts-Shield was a classic match and the closest thing the Shield has done to their original debut which took us all by surprise. If it is the last Shield match ever, what a way to go out in what was perhaps the greatest 6 man tag I have ever seen in my entire life. Both of these groups were slowly and masterfully put together and protected enough in booking so that the fans would really care, and it gave the match a big fight atmosphere that I haven't seen in a tag match in... I can't even remember.

I can't pick one moment that I loved the most out of all of them, but I think the whole Bray-Reigns sequence at the end is always going to be what I remember the most outside of Rollins DYING.

Just waiting for Taker or BROCK (perhaps both) to come out and stamp their own MOTY that people get behind though, they just produce that well :mark:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Maybe Batista-Orton will make it :mark:.
> 
> In all seriousness (Switching gears a little bit) though, Wyatts-Shield was a classic match and the closest thing the Shield has done to their original debut which took us all by surprise. If it is the last Shield match ever, what a way to go out in what was perhaps the greatest 6 man tag I have ever seen in my entire life. Both of these groups were slowly and masterfully put together and protected enough in booking so that the fans would really care, and it gave the match a big fight atmosphere that I haven't seen in a tag match in... I can't even remember.
> 
> ...


The thing that sticks out to me most was when Ambrose just went HAM on Bray with lefts and rights and they ended up brawling over the barricade. That's when it hit me I was witnessing an all time classic of a match. Rollins and Harper were the stand out performers to me, but that one moment with Ambrose, a guy I haven't been that high on, was my favorite moment. Anyone else notice how snug everyone was working in that match? I saw tons of HARD punches connecting with dudes skulls. It was AWESOME.

Smitty- pretty sure you have to enter CC info to get the free trial.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks Cactus, really wish they would tell people that


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, I forgot to mention how fucking awesome everyone was punching last night, primarily the punches thrown by Reigns as the match moved forward.

If he threw punches that hard every match :mark:.


----------



## Canadian Destroyer (Apr 14, 2011)

Just curious but why is everything DVD, Match and show related all shoved into 1 thread? Seems kinda stupid imho.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top prevent shitty threads like "I just watched Rock Vs Austin. It was good".


----------



## Canadian Destroyer (Apr 14, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Top prevent shitty threads like "I just watched Rock Vs Austin. It was good".


Also preventing lots of good threads. How do you discuss WWE's latest DVD's and have it noticed? It will get completely lost in the shuffle.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Who dares insult the GOAT thread? :HHH


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*WWE Elimination Chamber 2014*

The Shield (Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns) vs. The Wyatt Family (Wyatt, Harper, Rowan)

The best WWE match since... Bryan/Punk from OTL? Anyway, this had tons of heat and hatred. Great workovers with zero dull moments in them, awesome pacing and selling. Nothing more you could ask from this. I loved how the Wyatts were giving away that menacing vibe, like they're the true dangerous men out there, like they operate on a whole other level. The Shield, compared to them, looked like a group of pretty models pretending to be pro-wrestlers. Ambrose was the absolute MVP of his own stable, and yet was outperformed by everyone else from the Wyatts. That's how strong the displays of quality were. This is the best non-NJ match in 2014, and can't really see anything from WWE topping this, unless these two groups meet in a rematch.

****1/2

P.S. I hate to sound like a broken freakin' record, but WWE's C-level horror camerawork and mind insulting directing really take away from enjoyment. They're the WOAT. Absolute WOAT. The biggest common sense scam in the industry.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well the thread has been going on for years, also this thread is like the only good one in this section


----------



## Canadian Destroyer (Apr 14, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> *Well the thread has been going on for years*, also this thread is like the only good one in this section


Doesn't mean it's a smart one to have. Why not be able to create a thread for the new Shawn Michaels DVD(just an example) and discuss it? It just seems silly to me.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Top prevent shitty threads like "I just watched Rock Vs Austin. It was good".


It was good.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SMITTY said:


> Well the thread has been going on for years, also this thread is like the only good one in this section


Only good thread?! You don't enjoy the Cena heel turn, who would win in a real fight, and Rock vs. Austin threads?! :bryan2


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Better than having a separate thread to discuss every past PPV or match. This is more convenient.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So let me elaborate a little more on my love of Wyatts/Shield...

First off, the match was just non-stop fun. It felt like something was happening every second, the pace was almost always kept up and the one or two times it dropped, it didn't drag on too long. Ambrose going ape-shit on Wyatt was awesome. Two psycho heel characters going at it was always bound to be fun, but they blew my expectations out of the water.

That's another thing I LOVED about the match. I had high expectations and hopes for the match... and it blew them out of the water. I thought it was going to be an awesome match but I never thought I'd say it was better than Shield's TLC match. But not only do I think it was, but it's comfortably above that one imo (both are classics though, so that's no diss to the TLC match). 

Thirdly, I loved how we saw Shield finally get a taste of their own medicine. A lot of the stuff the Wyatts did, the Shield have done over and over again. Wyatts were in control and are the first team to really keep The Shield legal man away from his team. Then the end with them sending Rollins through a table, and then surrounding Reigns in the ring was just epic! This aspect of the match sends it over the top for me.

Finally, everyone just performed at such a top level. Rowan was weakest in the match, but even he was great. Rollins was the MVP of the match, Harper close behind, and Wyatt/Ambrose/Reigns fight it out for numbers 3-5. Wyatt's character work in the match, as usual, was amazing and he impressed me a lot. Ambrose was the same, and his offense, particularly on Wyatt himself, was awe-inspiring. At times it really seemed like he wanted to kill Wyatt.  And then there's Reigns, who I've given a lot of flack to for being carried by the other two members and disappointing time and time again in single's competition. I think I've found the Reigns I like... and it's babyface Reigns. Now don't get me wrong, they better not turn him into another version of Cena, BUT from an in-ring standpoint, he played the strong babyface nearly overcoming the odds with the best of them, not to mention the hot tag in the match and he did extremely well during that. Reigns is just too green to be a heel controlling the match, but a face who could allow a better worker to lead the match and get the offense in? BINGO! That's where he belongs.

Lastly, the crowd. They were chanting "This is Awesome" before the match even began. Now I'm not one to normally use that to justify a match being amazing, but it says a lot to the atmosphere the two teams brought.

So yeah, Wyatts/Shield was a match for the ages. I still don't put it above Punk/Brock from last year, but if not for that match, it'd be the best match since Taker/HBK WM25 imo. And tbh, I don't see Taker/Brock or any Wrestlemaia match surpassing Wyatts/Shield. I hope I'm proved wrong... I really hope, but I'll be shocked. 

So yeah, ****3/4 rating for it.



As far as the chamber match itself goes, my thoughts are basically this:

Started out awesome
Most of the match was awesome
Sheamus got eliminated
Match turned to shit as eliminations happened too quickly one after the other
Ending sequence between Bryan/Orton wasn't anything special
Overbooked, clusterfuck ending

So yeah, gets ***3/4. If the match kept up with how it was going until Sheamus was eliminated, it'd be ****1/4-****1/2 in my book. But the last 10 minutes or however long it was just sucked imo for a number of reasons.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Canadian Destroyer said:


> Doesn't mean it's a smart one to have. Why not be able to create a thread for the new Shawn Michaels DVD(just an example) and discuss it? It just seems silly to me.



Either join in the discussion of what we are discussing or don't. But this thread is the only good place on this entire forum, it's not changing,

Just watched Beach Blast 1992. This is a strong contender for Best PPV ever. So, so good. If the Steiner's/Bam Bam and Williams tag had been as good as the ***** classic they had at COTC, I feel safe in saying it WOULD be the best, as it is, it's top 5. God I love having this Network.

Pillman/Flamingo: ***3/4
Simmons/Terry Taylor: **
Valentine/Bagwell: ***
Sting/Cactus Jack: ****1/4
Steamboat/Rude: *****
Austin/Anderson/Eaton vs Windham/Rhodes/Koloff: ****
Steiner's/Miracle Violence Connection: ****1/4

Viva la Network.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Canadian Destroyer said:


> Doesn't mean it's a smart one to have. Why not be able to create a thread for the new Shawn Michaels DVD(just an example) and discuss it? It just seems silly to me.


But why not just discuss it here? that way the section isn't more cluttered than it already is.

HOGAN :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn WWE for their terrible finish to what was largely a very rad Elimination Chamber match. Called the Wyatt's interference, which was irksome, but expected so I was able to handle it. Then Kane interfering afterwards? Ughhhh. They're really intent on making Orton look like trash or something heading into the least appealing WM main event since...last year. That's the nature of the beast these days it seems. I'd actually much rather prefer Danielson vs Kane at Mania. Fuck Triple H. But I understand that win would mean a ton more. Obviously. Basically I'm just bleh on Danielson getting shunned of "the" match like I wished he could had, but at least a win for WM is almost guaranteed. Regardless of the opponent.

I don't even have to mention the six man tag here. We all know how much that raped our minds w/it's brilliance. Best match ever. (_or for the time being b/c I watched it less than two hours ago and still all OMFGDIDYOUSEETHISAMAZINGMATCH)_


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cesaro/Big E was fun


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Canadian Destroyer said:


> Doesn't mean it's a smart one to have. Why not be able to create a thread for the new Shawn Michaels DVD(just an example) and discuss it? It just seems silly to me.


Because then this section would get cluttered with DVD threads. That's what this thread is for and there's never a problem when it comes to discussing certain DVDs.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Damn WWE for their terrible finish to what was largely a very rad Elimination Chamber match. Called the Wyatt's interference, which was irksome, but expected so I was able to handle it. Then Kane interfering afterwards? Ughhhh. They're really intent on making Orton look like trash or something heading into the least appealing WM main event since...last year. That's the nature of the beast these days it seems. I'd actually much rather prefer Danielson vs Kane at Mania. Fuck Triple H. But I understand that win would mean a ton more. Obviously. Basically I'm just bleh on Danielson getting shunned of "the" match like I wished he could had, but at least a win for WM is almost guaranteed. Regardless of the opponent.
> 
> I don't even have to mention the six man tag here. We all know how much that raped our minds w/it's brilliance. Best match ever. (_or for the time being b/c I watched it less than two hours ago and still all OMFGDIDYOUSEETHISAMAZINGMATCH)_


You expected the Wyatt interference but not Kane? They were equally predictable.

Can't believe anyone would prefer Bryan/Kane to Bryan/HHH. That blows my mind a little bit.

As awesome as Bryan winning the title in the main event of WM30 would have been I'm happy with the way things are turning out. Bryan/HHH will be a bigger win and is just better for Bryan (and the WM card). Yet another match against Orton or against that pile of shit Batista or a triple threat against both wouldn't do much for me.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Chismo said:


> *WWE Elimination Chamber 2014*
> 
> The Shield (Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns) vs. The Wyatt Family (Wyatt, Harper, Rowan)
> 
> ...


That least part is a huge pet peeve of mine. I hate the way they hide everything on camera. What makes it even worse is that the live crowd can see it all but we don't get to see it. And it's not like it does anything either. I mean when the camera is at a weird angle and the crowd starts making noise you know something is going to happen. And the announcers act like they're shocked when they are also sitting at ringside. How do you not see that guy you're 15 feet away from them?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol. Triple H is shite. Always been big on Kane. Scenario now explained.

And nah, I expected Kane or some sort of Authority angle to jip Danielson. It's just sad when they have four guys breech the structure of the chamber & have not one, but two screw job eliminations. Total garbage.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> lol. Triple H is shite. Always been big on Kane. Scenario now explained.
> 
> And nah, I expected Kane or some sort of Authority angle to jip Danielson. It's just sad when they have four guys breech the structure of the chamber & have not one, but two screw job eliminations. Total garbage.


Bryan has been screwed out of the title by outside interference in a Hell in a Cell match and the Elimination Chamber. It's kind of silly when you think about it. Makes you wonder what the point of the cages are. That's honestly WCW level booking.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Just when I was about to give up on Big E, he impresses me here. This match is so much fun. In the same vein as Ryback/Sheamus.
> 
> EDIT: :mark: Can't wait to see Cody shit on this because of who is in it rather than what happened.


It was decent at most, but Swagger kept it together. b/c that's what he's capable of. It's now one of three Langston matches where it wasn't a walking pile of shit. Everyone saying that was his best match is funny. Clearly they never saw Christian's amazing carryjob w/the mong back on Superstars following SummerSlam. Gosh, Christian is magic.

Langston was still totally green in this. A spear through the ropes spot won't blind me, nor should it. LOL @ comparing it to Sheamus vs Ryback.



Cactus Jack said:


> Nah Cody likes Swagger he will be fair. And to be fair to Cody, Big E has been nothing but the drizzling shits in the ring up until that match. It's no huge accomplishment to have a ***1/4 match with Jack Swagger, that dude can go in the ring Big E just managed not to fuck anything up. That spear through the ropes was dope though. As was the tackle into the stairs. Now if he can just learn to wrestle in between all those Irish whips and power moves, he will be good to go. And for god sakes change his ring gear, he looks like a fucking idiot in that rasta colored one piece female bathing suit.


(Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> lol. Triple H is shite. Always been big on Kane. Scenario now explained.


Better worker than Kane, better talker than Kane, bigger star than Kane. Much bigger moment and better match. A match that has never happened and the fans want to see. The natural conclusion to the whole Bryan/Authority angle on a huge stage. So nah, I still don't get it.



HayleySabin said:


> It was decent at most, but Swagger kept it together. b/c that's what he's capable of. It's now one of three Langston matches where it wasn't a walking pile of shit. Everyone saying that was his best match is funny. Clearly they never saw Christian's amazing carryjob w/the mong back on Superstars following SummerSlam. Gosh, Christian is magic.
> 
> Langston was still totally green in this. A spear through the ropes spot won't blind me, nor should it. LOL @ comparing it to Sheamus vs Ryback.


Thank you. I was surprised to come on here and see a bunch of people calling Langston/Swagger a good match. Mediocre at best. The spear through the ropes was awesome but that's about it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Better worker than Kane, better talker than Kane, bigger star than Kane. Much bigger moment and better match. A match that has never happened and the fans want to see. The natural conclusion to the whole Bryan/Authority angle on a huge stage. So nah, I still don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I was surprised to come on here and see a bunch of people calling Langston/Swagger a good match. Mediocre at best. The spear through the ropes was awesome but that's about it.




HHH definitely isn't better on the mic than Kane. Not even close.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm almost motivated to check out said Christian/Big E match since I have the network and it's just a click away. Almost.

Unsurprising that it would be Christian who carried Big E to his best match. That man is the definition of what a good ring general should be. You almost never see a bad Christian match. Why? He gets saddled with some absolute garbage opponents at times, just like everyone else. It's because he refuses to let a match suck just because one guy can't cut it. Everyone on the roster does at least 1 or 2 things good in the ring, even Miz and Kofi, Christian just takes those 1 or 2 things, accentuates the hell out of them, then fills in all the rest with his own genius. That's essentially what Swagger did with Big E last night. He let him hit a few high spots and power moves to come off looking like he knows how to work, then Swagger did all the rest.

That's actually what ADR was attempting to do with that Batista match, but Big Dave sucked a Big Dick in that match, a dick so large even Del Rio couldn't over come his absolute incompetence. I haven't seen someone blow up as quickly as Big Dave since late 80s Warrior. He might even be worse tbh. I smoke 5-6 cigarettes a day but I can still play full court hoops once a week and not blow up like Big Dave did. Ugh. Man is a disgrace in the ring. He could over come WWE's horrid booking of him if he would just deliver the goods in the ring. That hasn't happened to this point. It doesn't help that a true Powerhouse like Reigns went out and tore it up right before him.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Good God this Christian vs Sheamus match is awful. 

-****3/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Smackdown match was better, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Better worker than Kane, better talker than Kane, bigger star than Kane. Much bigger moment and better match. A match that has never happened and the fans want to see. The natural conclusion to the whole Bryan/Authority angle on a huge stage. So nah, I still don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I was surprised to come on here and see a bunch of people calling Langston/Swagger a good match. Mediocre at best. The spear through the ropes was awesome but that's about it.


Rather watch Kane work. Better talker? Oh my, no. Anyways, that stuff is irrelevant. I already commented on how the Triple H match is much bigger. What's the point of asking when the only reason for questioning here is b/c your favorite wrestler happens to be Triple H? I don't care to see it, b/c I don't like to watch Triple H wrestle. Especially not in 2014. Danielson winning will be cool. That's about it. We know where our preferences sit.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm almost motivated to check out said Christian/Big E match since I have the network and it's just a click away. Almost.
> 
> Unsurprising that it would be Christian who carried Big E to his best match. That man is the definition of what a good ring general should be. You almost never see a bad Christian match. Why? He gets saddled with some absolute garbage opponents at times, just like everyone else. It's because he refuses to let a match suck just because one guy can't cut it. Everyone on the roster does at least 1 or 2 things good in the ring, even Miz and Kofi, Christian just takes those 1 or 2 things, accentuates the hell out of them, then fills in all the rest with his own genius. That's essentially what Swagger did with Big E last night. He let him hit a few high spots and power moves to come off looking like he knows how to work, then Swagger did all the rest.
> 
> That's actually what ADR was attempting to do with that Batista match, but Big Dave sucked a Big Dick in that match, a dick so large even Del Rio couldn't over come his absolute incompetence. I haven't seen someone blow up as quickly as Big Dave since late 80s Warrior. He might even be worse tbh. I smoke 5-6 cigarettes a day but I can still play full court hoops once a week and not blow up like Big Dave did. Ugh. Man is a disgrace in the ring. He could over come WWE's horrid booking of him if he would just deliver the goods in the ring. That hasn't happened to this point. It doesn't help that a true Powerhouse like Reigns went out and tore it up right before him.


I think the run he had as ECW champion really shows how could he is. Look at all of the different guys he had great matches with during this run. I don't want to knock all of the different guys he had matches with but how many of those guys did he have their best match with?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tis a shame that Christian wasn't very good today. Bryan/Kane though :lenny


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Rather watch Kane work. Better talker? Oh my, no. Anyways, that stuff is irrelevant. I already commented on how the Triple H match is much bigger. *What's the point of asking when the only reason for questioning here is b/c your favorite wrestler happens to be Triple H*? I don't care to see it, b/c I don't like to watch Triple H wrestle. Especially not in 2014. Danielson winning will be cool. That's about it. We know where our preferences sit.


I didn't ask you anything.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If Cena can't go this WM is gonna be a fucking mess. Wow.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm really surprised people are shocked that Bryan/HHH is going ahead. It's perfect booking, Bryan fighting the man who screwed him over for the past few months. Batista is winning the title simply cause he was promised it and he will hold it until Summerslam, when I think Bryan will win it. 

Now the only worry will HHH take the pin, i'm very 50/50 on it.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

I'm honestly going ****3/4 for the 6 man last night. And that's gone up 1/4* on second viewing. Decided on **** for the Chamber. Match quality this year has been high at times. Cannot complain really

That said the card for Mania really does look underwhelming. If Cena can't make it then God knows. They'd probably put Sheamus in there or some crap. Still fancy him to recover from a career threatening injury to go all Superman on Wyatt


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Safe to say that the Network not come out, I wouldn't be touching Mania with my money this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wyatt/Reigns was bad. They got exposed out there on their own tonight.

On the bright side Shield/Wyatts doesn't seem to be over. Maybe they're keeping the option of a rematch open for Mania in case Cena's injured. I was looking forward to Cena/Wyatt but I won't be too upset if him being hurt results in Shield/Wyatts II.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So if Cena can't make Mania, would you guys be up for Shield/Wyatts II? Should they have a stip this time around?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> So if Cena can't make Mania, would you guys be up for Shield/Wyatts II? Should they have a stip this time around?




Sheild vs Wyatts HIAC tornado tag.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I was thinking more of a No holds barred match. Those 6 men just beating the shit out of each other all over the place.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> So if Cena can't make Mania, would you guys be up for Shield/Wyatts II? Should they have a stip this time around?


Hell yes.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Buzzwords galore


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I was thinking more of a No holds barred match. Those 6 men just beating the shit out of each other all over the place.


Would love to see that happen :mark:

Also, Brock/Taker :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TAKER/BROCK! :mark:

Nevermind what I said about Reigns before. Guy just sucks right now, after all, except in tag matches. Wyatt isn't anything special in the ring either... but at least he has a great match with Bryan, and he also has mic work and an amazing character going for him.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm pretty stoked for WM30

Lesnar/Taker although predictable (Taker ain't losing) it should be a good match

Bryan/HHH will be a great match cause Bryan's in it and should bring out the best in HHH. My only worry will :jpl do what's right for business and take the pin.

:batista3 and :rko2 will be a good old comedy and will be rightly shat upon.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Guess Mania is Wyatt/Shield, Taker/Lesnar, Orton/Batista and Bryan/HHH. Could be worse, probably the best they can do w/o their two biggest faces.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> So if Cena can't make Mania, would you guys be up for Shield/Wyatts II? Should they have a stip this time around?


Hell in a Cell!

Undertaker vs. Lesnar :mark: this is going to be another MOTYC. Can't wait. Marked so hard for that Ministry goatee. Hope he keeps it. 

Undertaker vs. Lesnar should also close. No doubt in my mind.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#SAVEUSPUNK #GETWELLCENA

I still don't want Cesaro to turn face yet. Real Americans still have some more room to beast. Those two are perfect for each other. Cesaro has momentum, but he can still keep that momentum as a main event heel.

Bryan/Kane: ****1/2*. Really really liked this match a lot.

I'm gonna have to rewatch the first two Kawada/Misawa/Kobashi vs. Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi matches and compare them to the TLC 2012 6-Man Tag match and Wyatt/Shield to decide what the best 6-man-tag matches are. What else from all of wrestling history is on their level? Anything!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I just can't believe Orton/Batista is the title match. It has to be closing Mania because no way they have the unified title not main event it's first Mania... but how can they do that as it is? 

So looks like:

Taker/Brock (confirmed)
Orton/Batista (confirmed)
Bryan/HHH (all but confirmed)
Wyatt/Cena (as long as Cena's injury isn't too serious, all but confirmed)

Not bad. Bryan/HHH should be good, Taker/Brock will be awesome, and Orton/Batista... well, the crowd might be entertaining. :lol:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk needs to come back and face Sheamus or something. Brock/Taker was the main saving grace of the show.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm gonna have to rewatch the first two Kawada/Misawa/Kobashi vs. Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi matches and compare them to the TLC 2012 6-Man Tag match and Wyatt/Shield to decide what the best 6-man-tag matches are. What else from all of wrestling history is on their level? Anything!


Most people call the 7/2/93 the best 6-man of all time. Kawada/Ogawa/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama. Personally I find trying to rank a puro match from 20 years ago against an american match from today a disservice to them. Also 4/20/91, it's a 45 minute 6-man between Jumbo and Misawa's armies with a crowd that stays loud the entire time which would get my vote for best 6-man ever.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> Most people call the 7/2/93 the best 6-man of all time. Kawada/Ogawa/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama. Personally I find trying to rank a puro match from 20 years ago against an american match from today a disservice to them. Also 4/20/91, it's a 45 minute 6-man between Jumbo and Misawa's armies with a crowd that stays loud the entire time which would get my vote for best 6-man ever.


Okada and Kobashi :mark: was always a Jumbo Tsuruta and Mitsuharu Misawa guy myself (That AJPW 08.06.1990 match is the greatest pro wrestling match ever)
I assume WWE would try to sign Okada, (I'm sure he speaks perfect English) he has the "it" factor and is awesome in the ring plus he's only 25 years of age. He looks like and acts like a star. Sign him up.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I had Jumbo in my sig until a week or so ago. Yeah, that 6/8/90 match is off the charts good. Probably watched that more than any other 90's AJPW match, only 6/9/95 is close. A lot of people prefer their 9/1/90 rematch but I never really enjoyed that as much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Most people call the 7/2/93 the best 6-man of all time. Kawada/Ogawa/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama. Personally I find trying to rank a puro match from 20 years ago against an american match from today a disservice to them. Also 4/20/91, it's a 45 minute 6-man between Jumbo and Misawa's armies with a crowd that stays loud the entire time which would get my vote for best 6-man ever.


The 4/20/91 was my initial choice, but my only issue with that match is that at some point, I got a bit tired of the Kawada/Taue interaction and felt that it overwhelmed the entire match. It's a much smaller flaw than I'm making it out to be and I still loved the Kawada/Taue war in that match, but I honestly cannot find a single flaw in the two other Shield matches in question. It's been a long time since I saw the 7/2/93 tag match, so that's a good call. Of course, the flaws don't necessarily make one match better than the other. I love the 1990 six man tag too, even if it was essentially a 30 minute sprint. Still the best sprint ever. And I know the folks here hate it, but the Dragon Gate 6-Man-Tag in ROH was beastly too. Yeah, it's a spotfest, but it's the greatest spotfest ever. Every match mentioned is in that *****3/4* territory and should be canonized.

The 6/8/90 match is so much better than the rematch that it shouldn't be a debate. The rematch was great, but it didn't have the special feel that the prior match had. Misawa's babyface performance :mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> I had Jumbo in my sig until a week or so ago. Yeah, that is off the charts good. Probably watched that more than any other 90's AJPW match, only 6/9/95 is close. A lot of people prefer their 9/1/90 rematch but I never really enjoyed that as much.


I liked 6/8/90 match better too cause of the cocky young pretender (Misawa) been taught a lesson by old pro (Jumbo), great storytelling. Plus it show's how a Old pro can make a star of a young up and comer (even though Misawa was around for a few years) and pass the torch in the process. Jumbo really was the man sad ending to his career cause of illness and same for Misawa too. But Okada and Tanahashi have given us our era's Kobashi/Misawa. No one touched that feud last year and made Japanese wrestling great again.

Love that picture too Okada trying not to mark out


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

just watched austin vs rock

it was good

****3/16 stars

i like how they had finishers n shit


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Is anyone having lag time with the WWE Network?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Is anyone having lag time with the WWE Network?


I thought your brother said your household wasn't getting the network. Something about WCW jargon, I believe.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought your brother said your household wasn't getting the network. Something about WCW jargon, I believe.


I'm just using the free trial right now.

Is anybody using the free trial and having lag problems?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> *Most people call the 7/2/93 the best 6-man of all time.* Kawada/Ogawa/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama. Personally I find trying to rank a puro match from 20 years ago against an american match from today a disservice to them. Also 4/20/91, it's a 45 minute 6-man between Jumbo and Misawa's armies with a crowd that stays loud the entire time which would get my vote for best 6-man ever.


Wow, that's surprising. Everywhere I've gone people seem to agree it's 4/20/91. 


I definitely don't hate the Dragon Gate 6-man from ROH. I don't particularity like it, but I don't hate it, either. 

On last viewing I preferred 9/1/90 to 6/8/90. Misawa was less Tiger Mask-y and felt like he was the man instead of trying to become the man. ''Trying to become the man'' is half of what makes 6/8/90 so good, but, IDK, I preferred the re-match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That Wyatt/Shield match was easily my match of the year so far & yes I do put it over Naito/Ishii which was very :banderas itself.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

my match of the year is that one where cena overcomes the odds

so goat


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

UNDERFUCKINGTAKER

Now WM matters.

Also, Sheamus vs Christian, the Danielson vs Kane match I wanted to see, & Wyatt vs Reigns. Damn the consistency week in and week out. It may revolve around the same crew, but whew. It's wonderful.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watched bits and pieces of RAW, but I won't be able to watch any matches for a couple of days. :lmao at the fact that Randy Orton is getting pops now just because he's feuding with Batista.

#SaveUsPhil


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I love how universal the Batista hate is :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton's non reaction/hate from last night has now dissolved until WM passes. The lesser of two evils scenario can certainly be a benefit after all.

Why is WWE really doing this match?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

am i the only person who really enjoyed batista's final run before leaving?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Batista's last run as heel was excellent because he's a great dick clearly.

SPOTLIGHT :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I thought he was gold as a heel in 2010. Hopefully he turns soon because his "I LOVE THIS BUSINESS" shtick was...hilarious, actually.

If RAW in Chicago next week doesn't end with Punk spraying Orton and Batista with pepsi, I'll riot.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ReDREDD said:


> am i the only person who really enjoyed batista's final run before leaving?


No you're not. It was great. But Jesus Christ, he's looked terrible every time he's been in the ring this year.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

character blows too. he really needs that heel turn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forget this chump. UNDERTAKER GUYS.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bringing back the 1999 goatee :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DEVIL BEARD.

Totally got goosebumps. He stabbed Brock w/the pen to sign his message. The greatest of all time, ladies & gentlemen. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Forget this chump. UNDERTAKER GUYS.


I should probably know better by now but each year I worry that he's gotten older and won't be able to produce something great. I'm sure he'll put those fears to bed.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Can the title match be Hogan/Orton?

That's mad money right there!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

seriously though taker looked fucking epic tonight

anyone see the crazy air he got on that chokeslam today? felt like 2000 judgement day all over again


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

"THE LAUNCH OF THE WWE UNIVERSE!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got 100% faith in Taker to make the WM match worth while. Proven to have mad chemistry vs Lesnar in the past. Pumped.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

brb watching no mercy 2002 

gonna need a lot of kleenex for this one


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Legit think Undertaker vs. Lesnar can compete with The Shield vs. Wyatt Family for MOTY. I had the six man at a full five stars but I'll watch the match again and see how it comes out, but yeah, I think 'Taker-Lesnar can match that, tbh.

Still marking for the Ministry goatee. I hope he keeps it. Please, Taker. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a pleasurable experience. That's the normal reaction, Redead.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cal, Starbuck, etc., could you somehow bring back this old DVD thread from 2013? Have no idea why it appears to be deleted:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/907817-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html

I specifically wanted to find some posts from the night of Night of Champions (September 15, 2013 & the day after) but even Googling specific post terms that I remember doesn't help, because nothing comes up, probably due to that thread being deleted. 


If it helps, that thread apparently was ended on October 24, 2013, 'cause that's when the next thread was started.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I just watched Edge/Foley/Lita vs. Dreamer/Funk/Beulah from ECW One Night Stand 2006. Really good match. Don't know if you can count Lita/Beulah as they didn't do much throughout half or most of the match. I swear, Beulah was wood even when Lita interfered most of the time.

Some nice spots in the match. Fucking Terry Funk. :lmao I felt so bad for him when he was screaming "No, Mick! My Eye!" and all that stuff. And when the crowd chanted "We Want Sandman!' I actually thought he was coming out sometime in the match the first time I saw it several years ago lol. But now I'm rambling (one of the reasons why I don't post much in this thread, I suck at match/show reviews). Oh and Edge fucking with Beulah was hilarious.

Speaking of Hardcore/Extreme Rules matches, I'm probably going to watch Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley from SummerSlam 2006 (or 2007? I don't remember). Probably not one of the best hardcore matches, but I found it enjoyable for some reason. Flair was a fucking psycho and threatening to kill Melina.. :lmao


----------



## N2mjusschillin (Mar 10, 2013)

currently watching beach blast 92'.....thoughts on the event?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Might be the best PPV of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Support what Yeah1993 stated. I love how that is a hot ticket for those who got the Network. Recognize people.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> I just watched Edge/Foley/Lita vs. Dreamer/Funk/Beulah from ECW One Night Stand 2006. Really good match. Don't know if you can count Lita/Beulah as they didn't do much throughout half or most of the match. I swear, Beulah was wood even when Lita interfered most of the time.
> 
> Some nice spots in the match. Fucking Terry Funk. :lmao I felt so bad for him when he was screaming "No, Mick! My Eye!" and all that stuff. And when the crowd chanted "We Want Sandman!' I actually thought he was coming out sometime in the match the first time I saw it several years ago lol. But now I'm rambling (one of the reasons why I don't post much in this thread, I suck at match/show reviews). Oh and Edge fucking with Beulah was hilarious.
> 
> Speaking of Hardcore/Extreme Rules matches, I'm probably going to watch Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley from SummerSlam 2006 (or 2007? I don't remember). Probably not one of the best hardcore matches, but I found it enjoyable for some reason. Flair was a fucking psycho and threatening to kill Melina.. :lmao


Foley/Edge/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beulah is easily my 2006 MOTY ( Taker/Angle #2) 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Might be the best PPV of all time.


I'd go with the 1989 GAB over it. Superbrawl 2 cuts close too but the Rude/Steamboat BB > SB2.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If Benoit/Finlay isn't your 06 MOTY then we have a problem

I say that as an avid Taker/Angle hater though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GAB '89 has Flair vs Funk on it, but I'm partial towards Beach Blast '92 myself. I'm one of those WCW lovers who's all over the body of work from 1992. And 1994. I friggin love that year.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

They're seriously going with Batista/Orton? :lmao

Taker/Lesnar? Meh, they already faced each other so many times 12 years ago, and now Taker looks like a walking skeleton. I can't suspense my disbelief enough there.



TaylorFitz said:


> That least part is a huge pet peeve of mine. I hate the way they hide everything on camera. What makes it even worse is that the live crowd can see it all but we don't get to see it. And it's not like it does anything either. I mean when the camera is at a weird angle and the crowd starts making noise you know something is going to happen. And the announcers act like they're shocked when they are also sitting at ringside. How do you not see that guy you're 15 feet away from them?


It's so goddamn frustrating, I know it's probably another brainwashing technique, but I can't quite figure it out yet. I don't see the benefits of why are they doing that, but I don't see anyone complaining about it either. Funny, the richest promotion in the world with the largest/best production levels, and yet their matches look like a bad POV porn made by a guy with Parkinson's.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. No doubt will probably be made to close the show too. We're all going to laugh for the next six weeks & change, for what is sure to be some mighty fine build.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Support what Yeah1993 stated. I love how that is a hot ticket for those who got the Network. Recognize people.



Did you guys see my post a few pages back? That was the first full PPV I watched after signing up for the network. I can't tell you how glorious it was to watch a full Beach Blast 1992 PPV in great quality with zero lag. If the Steiner's/MVC tag had been as good as the COTC tag they had, BB 1992 would unquestionably be the GOAT PPV. As it stands, it's still up there as a contender. Every match, even the Valentine/Bagwell bout, was atleast good. Simmons and Terry Taylor probably had the worst match on the card and it wasn't even bad. What a great event. The hidden gem from that event is the Flamingo/Pillman opener. It starts out a little generic and even a tad sloppy, but man does it ever pick up. Fabulous little match there, Pillman was so damn good as an under dog face back then.

P.s. Does anyone get the biggest kick out of the outrageous Japanglishness of a tag team named The Miracle Violence Connection? That's so awesome, and so fitting for those two guys :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HOGAN. Honestly his pop didn't sound that impressive :lmao.

OMG THE WWE UNIVERSE HAS LAUNCHED!!! LAUNCHED THE WWE NETWORK, THAT IS. Nice save Hogan :lmao.

:lmao at the SEVERE lack of pop when Hogan mentioned The Rock :lmao. GOAT promo ever right here. 

Well, glad Hogan came out to cut that promo because he... it... the purpose was...

:lmao at Lawler failing to use the WWE Network :lmao. I'M GONNA WATCH THE FIRST WM *clicks on it* *goes back to first page*

Fuck me 10 minutes into the show and all it's been so far is one giant plug for the Network :lmao.

:lmao Batista Vs Del Rio tonight :lmao. The rematch from EC we all wanted to see :lmao.

Oh good, it's the first match. Skippy skip. :lmao the first 20 minutes of this show have been awful so far. Pointless Hogan NETWORK PLUG promo and a Batista match.

Big E Vs Cesaro - Winner receives their missing name. I wonder if someone from NXT is gonna be brought up to the main roster and named Antonio Langston...

Big E does overhead belly to belly suplexes. I'm struggling to not like him now . It's the one thing I still enjoy about Angle, even if he does spam the absolute shit out of them lol .

BIG ETOR? What? How is this spelt. :lmao at JBL mentioning Ezekiel. Might as well rename him to that because the guy we have with that name has disappeared. EGOR mention too. RIP Harrold Ramis . Ghostbusters and Stripes rule, among other things.

Googled Big E. Ettore. That's how it's spelt. BIG ETTORE. LOL. White people have names like Lenny, but black people have names like ETTORE.

DULL MOMENTS. BOOOO. Come on Cesaro, you are better than this. Fans are struggling to care too... UNTIL CESARO SIGNALS FOR A GIANT SWING .

LOL Swagger fails at interfering.

GIANT SWING. Does it piss anyone else off that the fans can't count properly? He got to 9 and the fans counted 10. In the chamber last night he only got about 25 but everyone was saying 30.

Swagger with the Ankle Lock. DQ loss for Cesaro. BREAK UP TEASED. Swagger match at EC was better tbh.

Cena. What a guy. He's capable of taking a situation like being screwed out of the WWEWHC TWICE and turn it into a cheesy promo. Tells the Wyatt's that if they slide under the bottom rope into the ring they might be starting something they can't finish. So none of them slide into the ring :lmao. 

CHRISTIAN VS SHEAMUS again :mark:. Is this supposed to be a WM match btw? Becuase like... happening on TV twice not too long before WM seems like a stoopid way to build to a WM match imo. Unless they throw a gimmick onto the WM match which I don't think they will. 

:mark: Sheamus selling the effects of the EC match. :mark: Sheamus practically getting TURNED ON when Christian slaps him in the face a few times.

Good mid section work from CHRISTIAN. He even made a bear hug look good. That takes some real fucking skill.

Hey commentators. SHUT THE FUCK UP. Something about Winnie the Poo, Christian being a weird colour, sea creatures dying if he goes to the beach... THE FUCK ARE YOU DUMB CUNTS ON ABOUT? CALL THE FUCKING MATCH YOU MORONIC RETARDED PILE OF WANK SHITES.

CLOVERLEAF making an appearance :mark:.

Christian countering WHITE NOISE this week :mark:.

Nice finish. Good match. Might have preferred their Smackdown match though, but both are good .

RENEE :mark:. Drooling over Stephanie. SHE WANTS IT.

DANIEL BRYAN GETTING IN HHH'S FACE. :lmao is THAT how they have Bryan challenge HHH to a WM match? FUCKING SERIOUSLY? :lmao

THE SHIELD. THE WYATT'S AGAIN. ROMAN VS BRAY :mark:. WILL WE FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO AMBROSE? ALL THIS AND MORE ON THE NEXT GREAT EPISODE OF MONDAY NIGHT RAW. OR LATER ON THIS RAW. I DUNNO ANY MORE.

BRYAN VS KANE. So this is a match? Because they never really made it clear until now tbh. Just showed "later tonight Kane and Bryan" as if they were gonna have an in ring segment lol. Thank fuck this is happening on Raw. Not thrilled about HHH/Bryan for WM but it beats Kane/Bryan for WM.

Stop. Just stop. Fucking stop. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUP UP! GOD MOTHERFUCKING DAMMIT SHUT YOUR CUNT HOLES. I AM FUCKING SICK OF THE SAME, THE EXACT SAME, THE EXACT MOTHERFUCKING SAME BULLSHITTY FUCKING BASTARDING ARGUMENT EVERY FUCKING WEEK IN EVERY FUCKING BRYAN MATCH FROM THESE DUMB USELESS CUNTS WHO HAVE THROWN AWAY ANY TALENT THEY DID HAVE FOR COMMENTATING IN FAVOUR OF BEING MORONIC ANNOYING CUNTS WHO ACTIVELY DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM FUCKING MATCHES TAKING PLACE IN THE RING. I'D LEGIT RATHER HAVE ART DONOVAN ON COMMENTARY ASKING HOW MUCH BRYAN WEIGHS, AT LEAST THEN HE'D BE KINDA TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING MATCH. 

Bryan Vs El Torito was mentioned as a "joke" by Cole or Lawler or some cunt with a mic. Might have been meant as a joke but I'd rather watch that than a HHH match 8*D.

Cole claims the Network was launched successfully :lmao. Yeah, apart from ALL THOSE ERRORS AND PROBLEMS AND FUCK UPS .

Finishing stretch was cool, but honestly it was the only part I was able to pay attention to. Bryan wins. Good. If I didn't quit drinking I'd need to have a fuckin crate of beer to recover from the commentary here.

Some dancing goofy bullshit crap.

Outlaws. Vs the fucking USOS? Didn't this happen at the PPV? 2 rematches on the show? I hope they make it 3 and we get a divas title rematch too. That way we can see all the unwanted rematches from EC!!!

Huh, didn't even get chance to skip this match before it ended. GOOD.

ROMAN REIGNS VS BRAY WYATT TIME :mark:.

Not happy they had a fucking sleeper hold in a match between these two, but everything else was just hard hitting and nasty. Roman throwing a first into Bray's SKULL to escape the sleeper was :mark: too.

Great, we missed 2 of the best spots in the match during a fucking commercial break.

Fans are dead tonight. They've been wank all night outside of some moments.

Other Wyatt Family dudes. ROLLINS TO THE FUCKING RESCUE :mark:. Ambrose suspiciously missing...

YEY AMBROSE SAVES ROLLINS!!!

SUPERMAN PUNCH~!

AMBROSE INTO THE RING. HE JUST WANTS TO FUCKING HIT SOMETHING. BRAWL~!

Set up to a rematch please? 

PLEASE?

FUCKING PLEASE?

LESNAR TIME. UNDERTAKER RETURN? :mark:

NEED FOR SPEED STAR ON RAW NEXT WEEK. Or as everyone else in the world knows him; JESSIE FROM BREAKING BAD.

OMG OMG OMG LESNAR IN THE RING. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I have a feeling I'll be MARKing out soon. Get it? "MARK" ing out. MARK. MEAN MARK. MARK CALAWAY. THE UNDERAKER. FUCK ME YOU PEOPLE ARE SLOW.

UNDERTAKER :mark:. HE'S HERE :mark:. OMG IS THAT A MOD BEARD? :mark: BIGGER POP FOR UNDERTAKER WHO HAS ONLY BEEN GONE A YEAR THAN HOGAN WHO WAS GONE FOR YEARS. HA. SUCK IT HULKAMANIACS. DEAD MAN FTW.

:mark:

:mark:

:mark:

UNDERTAKER

:mark:

:mark:

:mark:

:mark: UNDERTAKER STABS LESNAR WITH THE PEN :mark:

CHOKESLAM THROUGH A TABLE :mark:

UNDERTAKER :mark:

WRESTLEMANIA FINALLY HAS A MATCH I'M INTERESTED IN :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm pretty sure my stamina is rivaling Batista's at this point.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded the magic if anyone wants another watch: :mark:

*The Wyatt Family vs The Shield - Elimination Chamber 2014*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm pretty sure my stamina is rivaling Batista's at this point.


Lol, I didn't really notice it until I saw the contrast in Bryan and Batista's post-match promos. Batista sounded like he was about to pass out but Bryan who did much more work in his match was still able to speak coherently without any heavy breathing.

Only thing that can save Batista is a heel turn. He gets the liberty of shitting on the fans and is just much more entertaining that way. His stamina and ring rust need some work, however.

-----------------

I'm pleased about the WM30 card now. Brock/Taker will be killer, Orton as the "lesser of two evils" might get all the cheers in the ME even if Batista winning will get a reaction worse than Cena did @ WM22 when he inevitably wins, Bryan/HHH is just about right and Bray/Cena is fine by me.

With all the Network craze atm, I barely got around to watch the final segment from last night since I've been trying to get this motherfucker to work. DLing SummerSlam 2005 from XWT since somebody uploaded it. :mark: for Benoit totally unedited in HD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, I didn't really notice it until I saw the contrast in Bryan and Batista's post-match promos. Batista sounded like he was about to pass out but Bryan who did much more work in his match was still able to speak coherently without any heavy breathing.
> 
> Only thing that can save Batista is a heel turn. He gets the liberty of shitting on the fans and is just much more entertaining that way. His stamina and ring rust need some work, however.
> 
> ...


I could see Orton get some cheers. Hell, Del Rio got a pretty good amount at EC which leads me to believe the crowd will gravitate to anyone that isn't Batista.

Cena/Bray should be very interesting. I imagine Cena probably wins but I think he makes Bray look fantastic during it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I just thought, after the tension shown between Swagger and Cesaro, am I the only one that would be really annoyed if they decide to go with Swagger vs. Cesaro and The Shield 3 way? Like, two matches on a card which revolves around a team/stable imploding. Such lazy and boring booking. Hope to god they don't do that. Hope to go neither match happens seeing as I'd much rather see both units stay as a unit for the time being. 

WHY THE FUCK DO THEY FEEL THE NEED TO END THE SHIELD.
Fuck. Heartbreaking stuff. Best thing the WWE have had in years.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm fine with a Shield three way and Swagger/Cesaro. Either way, I want Cesaro to be the one turning face. That dude deserves to get cheered. 

Shield three way seems more likely after Raw. Not sure if Harper/Rowan would accompany Bray and/or have a match on the card. Rollins flying through the air was :mark: 

:lmao at Hunter trolling Bryan last night. "We'll try to find a place for you on the card."


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> P.s. Does anyone get the biggest kick out of the outrageous Japanglishness of a tag team named The Miracle Violence Connection? That's so awesome, and so fitting for those two guys :lmao


VOODOO MURDERS


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/Lesnar has started great. Really like Taker making the challenge instead of the other way around. It's not what I expected them to do and I hope we get Taker's explanation as to why. Ministry bears is also :mark:.

Cena/Bray is already :mark:. Loved Bray's promo on the false idol Mr Cena. I'm not too sure who will win this tbh but even if Bray loses I'm sure he'll come out strong in defeat. 

Trips/Bryan :mark:. I got what I wanted. A+ player vs. Solid B+ player...if they can fit it on the card of coruse :lol. Really looking forward to this. 

Batista/Orton....................... :lol. Unintentionally hilarious train wreck but it's happening so there's no point crying about it. 

I'm happy with the card bar the title match so yeah, roll on April 6th.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well you finally admitted it. HHH is a B+ player. Now to admit that you were wrong about the GOAT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/HHH should be great. The build will be done properly since HHH will insist on delivering 20+ minute promos every week. :mark:

I know HHH will hold his own during the verbal battles, but I hope Bryan steps up to the plate and delivers some seriousness and realism to his promos. Obviously it won't rival HHH/Punk build, but the match itself should definitely deliver.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy shit, just logged in to my other youtube accounts to find out that 85% of my videos have been blocked by WWE. Every full episode I had is removed and only thing remaining now is some of the TV matches.

Wow, it's gonna be annoying as fuck when it comes to watching wrestling now they've completely emptied youtube and taken down everything with such quickness. Us non-Americans will have to wait a year before Network is available, therefore we're screwed. Hopefully they don't discover XWT or watchwrestling now.

And the damn Network trial is still not working one day later. :cuss:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/HHH's build to Mania from here can't be fucked up. They have everything on the plate to make it a great one. I'm not sure how great the mic battles are going to be. Bryan is fine but nothing good, HHH is good though not great.. although he is playing his character (if it's even that  ) to damn near perfection. His line about finding Bryan a spot on the card had me laughing my ass off. Even then, even if the build does fall flat somehow, its a Bryan match and I'm sure at Mania he'll give 110%. As long as they dont try to turn it into one of HHH's typical matches from the last few years (LETZ TAKE IT SLOW AND TELL A STORY DURR), no reason it to believe it won't be great.

I'll be shocked if it ends up MOTN though with Taker/Lesnar on the card. As long as their chemistry hasn't disappeared in 10 years, it'll be a classic. Don't know if I see it being Taker/Lesnar's best match, or surpassing their matches with Punk last year, or surpassing Wyatts/Shield... but I guess we'll find out in 40 days. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

This will be the first time we see Bryan with a guaranteed 20+ minute Mania match. It will be great. No doubt about it. Plus, unlike HHH's recent Mania matches, there's no need for any gimmicks. Straight up wrestling match should be just fine, though if there's a No DQ stip or something, so be it. 

Lesnar/Taker will be better than Taker/Punk. Not sure if it'll be better than Punk/Lesnar, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Holy shit, just logged in to my other youtube accounts to find out that 85% of my videos have been blocked by WWE. Every full episode I had is removed and only thing remaining now is some of the TV matches.
> 
> Wow, it's gonna be annoying as fuck when it comes to watching wrestling now they've completely emptied youtube and taken down everything with such quickness. Us non-Americans will have to wait a year before Network is available, therefore we're screwed. Hopefully they don't discover XWT or watchwrestling now.
> 
> And the damn Network trial is still not working one day later. :cuss:



Man that really, really sucks dude. Did they take down Benoit/Austin and Benoit/Lesnar? Those matches aren't on the network and I have to watch them every few weeks or so:cussin:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Recurring 20 minute HHH promos. Good god I might actually be forced to self-mutilate.

I hope Sheamus works either Cesaro or Christian @ Mania personally. They won't be given enough time to have a truly great match, but either should easily surpass some of the utter bollocks that has found its way on the Mania undercard in recent years (Corre 8 man, Cody/Show, Lawler/Cole, Bret/Vince, Divas etc). Give them ten minutes or so somewhere as a place-holder in between the bigger matches, and they can easily have a Punk/Mysterio esque sprint that won't steal the show but will easily be a bright addition to the show.

As for Cesaro, whilst I do want him to get a push, I'm not convinced I want him to turn face just yet. I know he's a capable face worker who can sell very well and can vary his offence superbly to transition smoothly to a babyface run, as well as being allowed to show off more of his uncanny athleticism to wow the crowd. That being said, there is such a lack of good control segment workers these days, that losing Cesaro (who is by far the best currently) by forcing him to work face would be a shame imo. I really think they can continue to book him as they have done, moreso emphasising his strength, conditioning and nautral prowess as an athlete. If Bryan gets the title between Mania & Summerslam I think they'd be crazy not to give Cesaro a title match at somewhere like Payback or MITB (Payback is in Chicago I'm sure), in addition to the likely Bryan/Wyatt title match they can book after Wyatt's dominance over Bryan so far.

Sadly Cesaro is locked in that deathly uppercard spot where he's either forced to carry a midcard belt with no real direction, or they have him treading water because Bryan and Cena are likely occupied, and Sheamus despite being a strong worker has never had that connection or star power to make for a compelling feud.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Recurring 20 minute HHH promos. Good god I might actually be forced to self-mutilate.






> I hope Sheamus works either Cesaro or Christian @ Mania personally. They won't be given enough time to have a truly great match, but either should easily surpass some of the utter bollocks that has found its way on the Mania undercard in recent years (Corre 8 man, Cody/Show, Lawler/Cole, Bret/Vince, Divas etc). Give them ten minutes or so somewhere as a place-holder in between the bigger matches, and they can easily have a Punk/Mysterio esque sprint that won't steal the show but will easily be a bright addition to the show.
> 
> As for Cesaro, whilst I do want him to get a push, I'm not convinced I want him to turn face just yet. I know he's a capable face worker who can sell very well and can vary his offence superbly to transition smoothly to a babyface run, as well as being allowed to show off more of his uncanny athleticism to wow the crowd. That being said, there is such a lack of good control segment workers these days, that losing Cesaro (who is by far the best currently) by forcing him to work face would be a shame imo. I really think they can continue to book him as they have done, moreso emphasising his strength, conditioning and nautral prowess as an athlete. If Bryan gets the title between Mania & Summerslam I think they'd be crazy not to give Cesaro a title match at somewhere like Payback or MITB (Payback is in Chicago I'm sure), in addition to the likely Bryan/Wyatt title match they can book after Wyatt's dominance over Bryan so far.
> 
> Sadly Cesaro is locked in that deathly uppercard spot where he's either forced to carry a midcard belt with no real direction, or they have him treading water because Bryan and Cena are likely occupied, and Sheamus despite being a strong worker has never had that connection or star power to make for a compelling feud.


Agreed completely about Cesaro. I like his current spot where he's definitely the shining star of his team (didn't feel that way a few months ago - and that's no knock on Swagger, he has been fine - but it's obvious now), with the ability to work a controlling heel segment, but also bust out face moves/feats of strength to garner respect and cheers from the crowd. I fear for the position of any full-time face in the company not named Cena or Bryan at this point.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yep, he's in a great spot. Being allowed to wrestle longer matches and be protected in defeat, whilst scoring big wins. It's just a shame they had that horrid spell where he lost every single/tag match for what felt like three months, culminating in dropping the US title to Kofi on a random Raw. Why WWE feel stars need to overcome horrific booking which devalues their importance and credibility, in order to then be a success months down the line bemuses me. It's no coincidence that Shield/Wyatts got such a great reaction to their match, with neither team having yet been subjected to that dire booking of endless defeats.

I hope they figure a long-term direction for him though, if only because the sparse roster means he's handicapped for viable feuds. He'll excel in the ring no doubt, but if they want him to be something more (especially as a heel), then he'll need the odd engrossing feud in addition to the stellar ring-work. If they can book Cena/Cesaro on PPV sometime post Mania, I think that would be a step in the right direction. Just so long as he avoids the IC/US title, because he'll never be afforded the time to have a match he's capable of, and their lack of interest in elevating either title will just see the poor sod robbed of any momentum.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Man that really, really sucks dude. Did they take down *Benoit/Austin* and Benoit/Lesnar? Those matches aren't on the network and I have to watch them every few weeks or so:cussin:


Ill try and put that (SD) on my DM channel if they take it down too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If any of you upload to youtube, making your channel private is the best way to go. Just PM people in here if you upload a match for them (as Zep frequently does), and given the fact there's only ever really a handful of regular faces in here, it would be fairly easy to rep/PM links for people and avoid WWE taking the video down.

I know someone who has a great list of videos (and an even better afro, Moops) and the channel is private and any link is either PM'd/repped or just carefully supplied so as to ensure the link isn't widely tossed about and likely to be removed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> If any of you upload to youtube, making your channel private is the best way to go. Just PM people in here if you upload a match for them (as Zep frequently does), and given the fact there's only ever really a handful of regular faces in here, it would be fairly easy to rep/PM links for people and avoid WWE taking the video down.
> 
> I know someone who has a great list of videos (and an even better afro, Moops) and the channel is private and any link is either PM'd/repped or just carefully supplied so as to ensure the link isn't widely tossed about and likely to be removed.


Yeah, i keep meaning to do that TBH.  Mind you, i can always go back and make them Private i think (on DM). All my uploads have survived so far (fingers crossed), but its mostly with WWE stuff i'm wary, you just never know, esp with this fucking Network.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yep, he's in a great spot. Being allowed to wrestle longer matches and be protected in defeat, whilst scoring big wins. It's just a shame they had that horrid spell where he lost every single/tag match for what felt like three months, culminating in dropping the US title to Kofi on a random Raw. Why WWE feel stars need to overcome horrific booking which devalues their importance and credibility, in order to then be a success months down the line bemuses me. It's no coincidence that Shield/Wyatts got such a great reaction to their match, with neither team having yet been subjected to that dire booking of endless defeats.
> 
> I hope they figure a long-term direction for him though, if only because the sparse roster means he's handicapped for viable feuds. He'll excel in the ring no doubt, but if they want him to be something more (especially as a heel), then he'll need the odd engrossing feud in addition to the stellar ring-work. If they can book Cena/Cesaro on PPV sometime post Mania, I think that would be a step in the right direction. Just so long as he avoids the IC/US title, because he'll never be afforded the time to have a match he's capable of, and their lack of interest in elevating either title will just see the poor sod robbed of any momentum.


Yeah, him being able to showcase his true talent is doing wonders for him. I hope Zeb sticks around with him after the eventual split from Swagger. That would also indicate he's remaining heel, imo. I don't understand the up and down booking either, but luckily he seems to be bouncing back with a vengeance. I fear that after The Shield splits Ambrose and Rollins will be lost in that uppercard shuffle as well while Reigns does his main event thing. 

I want Rollins to be in a position that Cesaro is currently in, but as a babyface. He's one that I'd like to see turn after the eventual split from Ambrose/Reigns. Him getting ample TV time to showcase his skills as a face =


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Zep is the Keyser Soze of match uploads, the WWE thinks he's just a myth, that no man could possibly upload as many terrific matches as he does. And then when they try to take down his links, he goes and murders their whole family and burns Stamford to the fucking ground. 

Cesaro needs to pull off a nice swerve. Keep doing the big swing, keep teasing a face turn for months along with the rest of the Real Americans while putting on amazing tag and singles matches every week. Then, just when everyone is really getting behind Cesaro, Colter, and Swagger and they seem primed for a good face run, Cesaro needs to become the most evil bastard alive. Beat Colter to a pulp, destroy Swagger, spit on the American flag, then go after the current WWE champ Bryan Danielson and have a nice long feud over several PPV's for the title :mark:

The WWE has enough faces at the top, the only true top heel they have is Orton. Cesaro's best chance for success I believe is as a heel right now. He can always turn face a few years down the line, when it will be that much more meaningful.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cesaro/Bryan main event title match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> This will be the first time we see Bryan with a guaranteed 20+ minute Mania match. It will be great. No doubt about it. Plus, unlike HHH's recent Mania matches, there's no need for any gimmicks. Straight up wrestling match should be just fine, though if there's a No DQ stip or something, so be it.
> 
> Lesnar/Taker will be better than Taker/Punk. Not sure if it'll be better than Punk/Lesnar, though.


I agree, there's no need for any stips and a straight up wrestling match is all that's required. I still have my doubts because they could do what I mentioned even under regular rules. Hopefully Bryan leads the match or HHH doesn't try to make it something "epic".

As for Taker/Lesnar, I wonder just how great it'll be. I think I'd be setting ny expectations too high, expecting it to surpass Taker/Punk (which right now I have at a high ****1/2), but surpassing Taker's matches with Edge, Orton, HHH, Flair, and Kane? I could definitely see that. I'm hyped for the match, I know the potential the two have together, and their feud so far isnt doing anything to lower my expectations.

I do have some doubts though. Taker's age has clearly been catching up to him. While he's done top-notch work at his last several Manias, I always wonder if he can keep it up another year. And Lesnar... Well most of his matches since his return haven't been great. Against Cena was awesome and the Punk match is a classic, but it's been hit or miss with him. To top it off, the two guys aren't the same as when they fought 11 years ago. I'm still expecting an awesome match/MOTN, but those things on my mind keep me from raising my expectations through the roof. That's probably a good thing, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I agree, there's no need for any stips and a straight up wrestling match is all that's required. I still have my doubts because they could do what I mentioned even under regular rules. Hopefully Bryan leads the match or HHH doesn't try to make it something "epic".
> 
> As for Taker/Lesnar, I wonder just how great it'll be. I think I'd be setting ny expectations too high, expecting it to surpass Taker/Punk (which right now I have at a high ****1/2), but surpassing Taker's matches with Edge, Orton, HHH, Flair, and Kane? I could definitely see that. I'm hyped for the match, I know the potential the two have together, and their feud so far isnt doing anything to lower my expectations.
> 
> I do have some doubts though. Taker's age has clearly been catching up to him. While he's done top-notch work at his last several Manias, I always wonder if he can keep it up another year. And Lesnar... Well most of his matches since his return haven't been great. Against Cena was awesome and the Punk match is a classic, but it's been hit or miss with him. To top it off, the two guys aren't the same as when they fought 11 years ago. I'm still expecting an awesome match/MOTN, but those things on my mind keep me from raising my expectations through the roof. That's probably a good thing, though.


Brock hasn't been hit or miss, Brock has been great in every match since his return. It's Triple H that sucked the life out of those matches, and WWE's ridiculously dumb booking decision to have Brock turn into a bitch in their cage match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When's the last Taker stinker at Mania? Hasn't happened in almost a decade. I think it'll be fantastic. Lesnar's matches have all been good imo (I don't really count the Show match), and he has been GREAT in all of them. We know what he's capable of (vs Cena and vs Punk were both ~****3/4).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

@TLK Maybe Kane at 20? 

NXT Special on the Network right now, and they're replaying Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that's probably accurate. I forget who he faced at 21, and I don't remember the Henry match from 22. Everything from 23 and on, though, has been great.

Subscribing to the Network when I get home. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ORTON at 21. Awesome match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DUH. Not sure how I forgot that one. Yeah, so probably XX against Kane unless I'm forgetting about the Henry match being bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Let me just clarify, those "negatives" I brought up don't make me think the match will suck or be anything less than great, but rather that I wouldn't be surprised/disappointed if its not some classic or top quality match (in star ratings, something like ****1/4+).

As for Lesnar being hit or miss, I meant in terms of his matches, not him himself necessarily... although I do hold him just as responsible as HHH to their Mania match being total garbage, but outside of that, even though I don't think much of the other two HHH matches, his selling was excellent in them, and the Big Show match... well, there wasn't really anything that could save the match as it was booked.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I honestly don't mind Taker/Henry from 22. Nothing great but it's at the very least watchable.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i really need to rewatch Taker vs lesnar unforgiven


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Superbryan :cuss::cuss: is pissing me off.


So, for WM, we basically have:

Taker / Lesnar
Cena / Wyatt
Bryan / HHH
Orton / Batista

Doesn't look too bad on paper, to be honest. Match quality should be good.

On another note, I finished Jericho's WCW run and his few 1999 matches were all pretty uninteresting. I really hated his feud with Saturn.

He seems to be feuding with DX/NAO in the WWF (despite cutting promos on The Rock/Ministry) which could be better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I may be late to the party (well, not really, just on the commenting thing), but Shield/Wyatts may just have been the fucking surrealest (if that word exists) thing I've watched in ALL of my wrestling watching years (not counting pre-2005/6 stuff). Yes, even surrealer (if that word exists) than stuff like Lesnar/Cena and Hell No & Ryback/Shield imo. The fact that even Rowan, easily the weakest of all 6 guys and the weaker in the match itself, still looked great w/his crazy facials, well thought-out control segments and OBLITERATION PUNCHEZ is a story. MVP of the match was probably Rollins, he had the crowd in the palm of his hand from the get-go and got to look like a maniac with his flip flop moveset while still selling the hatred and the pain of the Wyatts' devious strikes. Countless great moments like the top rope German sequence, Reigns hot tag, Ambrose going BERZERK and moving to the crowd w/Bray, the table spot, the BRODIE LEE DIVE OF DEATH... everything was a highlight. Potential Match Of The Generation contender there, not joking. A very, very high ****1/2. Not higher than Punk/Lesnar atm, but if holds up to be as EPIC as on 1st and 2nd watches, it's going definitely higher. Matches like those make me reconsider having Lesnar/Cena at ***** and all that - though it isn't changing anyway. Shocked at how many quality stuff the 'E has put on since the start of 2014 btw.

With that said, WM 30 ain't looking too bad on paper. TAKER/BORK and Trips/Bryan should be potential MOTYC's (that is, if my love for Shield/Wyatts says so) if they minimally deliever. Cena/Wyatt looked kinda blah at first... but then I took a Bryan/Wyatt to the balls, and then some other good singles stuff, and him being there with John Cena who is imo a Top 5 performer in the company atm alongside Bryan, Rollins, Cesaro and Sheamus (not counting part-timers obviously). Orton/Batista... have you ever wondered what the opposite of Rock/Hogan would be like? Yeah, I can see that being what happens. I'll love that match, I'm sure I will, simply because 21 Jump Street and The Lego Movie will be Adam Sandler compared to THAT levels of pure comedy. Huh, I'm already :lmao'ing, and we're still weeks away.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Punk/Lesnar, Punk/Cena (Raw), Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Taker and the 6-man TLC tag have nothing on this 6-man tag. NOTHING.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WWE or who-the fuck-ever deleted my The Wyatt Family vs The Shield - Elimination Chamber 2014 upload, fuckers. Probably should have made it Private, may have worked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, to me if there were six Match Of The Generation/Era contenders, they would be:
1) The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25
2) The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26
3) John Cena vs. CM Punk, MITB 2011
4) John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012
5) CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2013
6) The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber 2014

All six I'd put alongside some of WWE's all-time greatest stuff ever made. Serious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Meanwhile, all my DM vids, even the non private ones, are safe .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To add to ATF's list, I would add two more matches: TLC 6-Man Tag and Punk/Bryan OTL 2012. The six man tag made stars out of multiple people, showcased the talent on the roster, and was arguably the greatest debut match ever. Punk/Bryan showed just how great the impact of independent wrestling had on mainstream wrestling, not only in its incredible match quality, but more importantly by how much the casuals, marks, and smarks were all fully engaged to the match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Punk/Lesnar, Punk/Cena (Raw), Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Taker and the 6-man TLC tag have nothing on this 6-man tag. NOTHING.


With the exception of Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Lesnar, I'd agree.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, Punk/Lesnar is other-worldly for me. I turn into such a little kid during that match. Need to watch Shield/Wyatts again, this time without the stream lag.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As it stands, WWE's 2014 so far (and we're only at the end of February):

1) Best American trios match ever. Nuff said.

(...much later...)

2) Bryan/Wyatt
3) Cena/Cesaro
4) Orton/Bryan
5) Elimination Chamber
6) Sheamus/Christian
7) Shield/Cena, Bryan & Sheamus
8) Orton/Cesaro
9) 30-Man Rumble (LOL ending aside, really enjoyed it myself)
10) Killswitch Fellas/Real Americans

Btw, speaking of the aforementioned Punk/Cena Raw, today is the one year anniversary of that match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Real Americans vs Gingers should be on there imo.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*** for Kane/Bryan and ***1/2 for Big. E/Cesaro, they had an awesome match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

"Gingers" as in Christian & Sheamus? It IS there. Killswitch Fellas is my custom name for that team.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck I'm blind. 

Big E is kinda growing on me. I know it's still commonly accepted around here to bash him, but he's improving on a weekly basis in the ring. Of course it helps working w/Cesaro who never seems to have a bad match, but still.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Big. E is a very good big guy, imo. Really liked his EC match with Swagger


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll probably rewatch Wyatts/Shield next week when my giddiness has died down a bit, but despite how fucking unbelievably amazing it was, I still don't think that when it comes down to it, I'll put it over Anderson/Eaton/Zybysko vs. Rhodes/Steamboat/Koloff as the best American trios match ever. However, it's the closest thing that will ever come to that match, so that's something.

It could infact just depend on which I prefer on any given day. To watch them both back to back would be fantastic. I think I may do that at the weekend.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Meanwhile, all my DM vids, even the non private ones, are safe .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I know someone who has a great list of videos (and an even better afro, Moops) and the channel is private and any link is either PM'd/repped or just carefully supplied so as to ensure the link isn't widely tossed about and likely to be removed.


Probably helps I haven't uploaded a single WWE match. I do have three videos that ''matched third party content'' content, though. Also the links are unlisted, not private. ''Private'' is the kind of thing Black Terry Jr uses, where you can have the link but still not be able to watch the video.

You just reminded me to do something I forgot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As in the Saturday Night 2/3 Falls match? Yeah good call, but then again, it has Anderson, Steamboat and D. Rhodes on it so anything less than great would be outrageously dissapointing. Still, I think that said 2/3 Falls match may have had the downright awesomeness and gritiness expected, but it may just be matched in that department by Shield/Wyatts, and that one has more: its raw epic feel, a greater atmosphere and a much larger scale envonriment to play their toys with (as in being in a WWE PPV). Of course, those are all small, small little thingies, but I'm just too nitpicky right now regarding that stuff.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Fuck I'm blind.
> 
> Big E is kinda growing on me. I know it's still commonly accepted around here to bash him, but he's improving on a weekly basis in the ring. Of course it helps working w/Cesaro who never seems to have a bad match, but still.


Who has possessed you? :|


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao Knew that would fetch me some backlash.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

ATF said:


> As in the Saturday Night 2/3 Falls match? Yeah good call, but then again, it has Anderson, Steamboat and D. Rhodes on it so anything less than great would be outrageously dissapointing. Still, I think that said 2/3 Falls match may have had the downright awesomeness and gritiness expected, but it may just be matched in that department by Shield/Wyatts, and that one has more: its raw epic feel, a greater atmosphere and a much larger scale envonriment to play their toys with (as in being in a WWE PPV). Of course, those are all small, small little thingies, but I'm just too nitpicky right now regarding that stuff.


You should probably check out the Mid-South 6 man tag (Ladd/Express vs RockNRoll/Duggan) & Freebird trios before making the sweeping declaration. But it's an undisputed company best.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao Knew that would fetch me some backlash.


My favorite part was when he botched the Neutralizer :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can't say I've watched most of those, indeed.

Let's rephrase that: "Best American trios match *that I've watched, imo*. Nuff said"

Yeah, I feel kinda safer now. And a bit more stupid too. But safer mostly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the 6 man tag again around 4am this morning. Why 4am? Well I was still awake, and I decided to wait for Raw to come online on XWT so I could set it downloading and shut down my PC when it's done, and I'd go to bed. And because Raw usually takes around half an hour or so to come online after it airs I needed something to watch. And I'd just finished downloading EC in HD (downloading all the shows in HD so I can have awesome quality matches on my best of set). So re-watching the 6 man seemed wise. Actually saw some awesome little moments I missed last time, so that was cool. Also noticed a BOTCH in it too. Rollins tags himself into the match at one point by TAGGING ROWAN :lmao. So I took about *** off the match 8*D. Can't believe I didn't remember/pay attention to the awesomeness that was the apron drop kick from Reigns the first time around. Knocks Rowan (I think) down, then gets lobbed out of the ring by Harper, so while he's on the outside he races around the ring and hits the dropkick on Rowan :mark:. Also :lmao at Ambrose's head just floating around above the apron after he gets kicked in the face.

Match still rules the planet. Definitely MOTY thus far and it will take something exceedingly excellent to top it. Poor Undertaker, had a streak of MOTY's from like 2007 to 2011, now he's only getting the #2 MOTY, and I feel he'll have to settle for #2 at best this year too. Though he does have the awesome MOD beard now, that'll probably bump up my match rating :side:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I watched the match again last night and I was cracking up at Ambrose's floating head. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Him being there with BORQUE still gives him the chance for MOTY honors. Though there are the problems that Bork might just MURDER Taker and his poor body... or that HHH/Bryan might be better... or simply it won't be MOTY anyway because Shield/Wyatts is that good. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am predicting that Bryan/HHH will be average. Bryan is awesome, HHH is shitty, so it should average out as average.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HE ISN'T SHITTY, DAMMIT!


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have full faith that Bryan can carry HHH to a ****+ match.

Oh, and Sheamus vs. Cesaro at Mania pls. Their interactions at the Rumble, in the RA vs. Gingers tag, and the EC were all :mark:. UPPERCUTS AND FOREARM CLUBS FOR EVERYONE.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I am predicting that Bryan/HHH will be average. Bryan is awesome, HHH is shitty, so it should average out as average.


HHH can go if he's in the ring with someone of top quality. He needs to let Bryan call some of the match. I think it be a very good to excellent match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Triple H is exceedingly shitty. I wish he'd just book himself into the WWE title match, make it a Triple Threat, and let Bryan face Cesaro or Sheamus in a nothing match that will shit all over anything Triple H can muster. Triple H will end up going over Bryan, count on it, and the match will be average at best, and you'll all feel dumb for being excited about a Triple H match in 2014. 

Triple H matches VERY rarely benefit his opponent. Don't know why you guys feel this will be different, it's gonna be the NoC 2011 situation all over again. Shitty match, cooling the jets of the hottest guy in the company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> When's the last Taker stinker at Mania? Hasn't happened in almost a decade. I think it'll be fantastic. Lesnar's matches have all been good imo (I don't really count the Show match), and he has been GREAT in all of them. We know what he's capable of (vs Cena and vs Punk were both ~****3/4).


27.

Taker vs KANE & Henry were fine matches. Taker vs Henry should have been SO much more - IE their eventual or pre SD match _(I'm dry on the date atm)_ although it's fine. Big mugs sluggin, ftw.

Also, agreed w/Cal via his last post.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I am predicting that Bryan/HHH will be average. Bryan is awesome, HHH is shitty, so it should average out as average.


I think that the drama will make it great. HHH should do every dirty heel tactic in the book, be a disrespect ass, etc. The crowd will explode when Bryan gets the better of him.

I still think it's H's fault that Bryan isn't in the title picture, if he isn't, btw. :no: HHH feels that he needs a big WM match, I'm convinced of that, so he's ok with the world title match getting shitted on, because that makes his match even better/bigger/more significant. If he weren't around, they'd HAVE to put Bryan in the title match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry match probably could have been better without the random casket stipulation.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No doubt.

MINISTRY DEVIL BEARD, CAL.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Debating if I should use my free preview now, or next week when I'm not working. I will eventually get the network in the summer time or something, just need to pay other bills off first


I think there are other things to worry about than HHH/Bryan tbh, like how all time shitty the Title match will be :banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOATee, as someone repped me saying :lmao. I knew Undertaker was returning by BAH GAWD I still :mark: like crazy. When Lesnar handed Undertaker the pen I thought to myself "don't give the fucking Undertaker a pen, he'll stab you with it"... and then Undertaker STABBED LESNAR WITH THE PEN and I was like HUH? and :mark: and THAT WASN'T PG :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was too :mark: to even think about anything. The mentality of "I now care about WM 30" was all I had on my mind. Then VIOLENCE.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Re-watched The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, initially had it at *****, but it's ****3/4 on second viewing for me - but as close to ***** as could be at that rating. Just beautiful. Such an amazing match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Scared to rewatch the 6 man tag, I dont want that baby going down at all, besides punk/brock best match Ive seen in years


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

With Bray/Cena and the implosion of The Shield imminent, I'm glad Wyatts vs. Shield ended up actually happening. Sure, that exact match in front of 70,000 fans would've been incredible, but who knows if it would've gotten the time and build it deserved at Mania. Gonna have to re-watch that bad boy sometime this weekend. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm glad it happened in front of a more "normal" sized WWE crowd. WM crowds being as large as they are & depending on card placement could have not been as stellar as they should have been - rather, actually were - for the Shield vs Wyatts explosion. Everything we got on Sunday was perfect.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Skins, my brother. Renee is all over this network, doing NXT stuff. She's probably elsewhere also. 

Also one of the Legends of Wrestling Rountable was streaming today. It was Piper, JR, Hayes, DDP, and Mean Gene hosting. Never did figure out the exact topic but they were discussing a lot older stuff like Stan Hansen, Piper's stuff leading up to the first Mania, DDP talked about his early days as manager, Bruiser Brody stuff was shown, including a match with Rick Rude. Pretty cool stuff. 

NXT shows are pretty cool - you get a good look at the young talent they've got. The Zayn/Cesaro interview they did was pretty good, I thought. Cesaro was being a dick heel the whole time, interrupting Zayn whenever he was asked a question. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, Shield Vs Wyatts at WM could have been INCREDIBLE if they got the same reaction, but WWE would probably be stupid enough to place it after Undertaker's match where the fans are on life support from cheering to near death.

Lol, been sat here for about 2 minutes just staring at your sig Cody. UNDERTAKER. LESNAR. CHOKESLAM. TABLE. BEARD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Legends of Wrestling roundtable OWNS.

edit b/c UNDERTAKER


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder if we'll get another special Taker entrance at Mania.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

What? I just see Natalie Portman (not complaining by the way).

Just realized there's an NXT PPV (or is it not a PPV? who cares) in two days :lenny


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's WM XXX and it's the fucking UNDERTAKER. Gotta assume they will go BIG with it. Man, EVERYTHING about Undertaker being at WM has me :mark:. He really IS Mr WM for me in every way. Anticipation for the match, epic entrances, BIG FIGHT FEEL, classic year after year... nobody touches him at WM. Not even HBK aka Mr Fake WM.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker got some great fucking height on that chokeslam. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Refresh and then it's Deadman city. 

Taker entrance for WM 30 will no doubt be memorable. When aren't they not? Last year's...my stars. Epic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH, your teasing me at this point, Renee 24/7 = sold


Edit: And to think he didnt even have the most badass entrance of that single match either unk2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Scared to rewatch the 6 man tag, I dont want that baby going down at all, besides punk/brock best match Ive seen in years



Punk/Lesnar still tops it, but just BARELY. I have the 6 man over Cena/Brock.

Since Shawn Michaels retired with that 5-star classic at WM 26, the 5 best matches in that span have been, In order of greatness, Punk/Brock, Punk/Cena MitB, Shield/Wyatt's 6 Man, Lesnar/Cena, Punk/Bryan. Only the Punk/Lesnar and Punk/Cena matches get "the full 5" from me, but regardless, what the Shield and Wyatt's did was simply astounding. I really can't get over how awesome that was.

Let's hope Brock/Taker can recapture their No Mercy 2002 magic and join the discussion for 5 best matches of the decade, as that's the only match that's currently been revealed for WM 30 I'm really excited about. My only problem is, these two already had a damn near perfect match in Hell in a Cell, where can you really go from there? I know Brock is a different worker now then back then, so maybe it will be a different dynamic. Especially at WresrleMania with the Streak on the line. This just seems like such a wasted opportunity, it would have been SO much better to have Bryan win the Rumble, Brock win the chamber, then have them face off for the WWE title in the semi main event with Cena/Taker closing the show. That's a card worthy of WM 30.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Probably helps I haven't uploaded a single WWE match. I do have three videos that ''matched third party content'' content, though. Also the links are unlisted, not private. ''Private'' is the kind of thing Black Terry Jr uses, where you can have the link but still not be able to watch the video.
> 
> You just reminded me to do something I forgot.


Oh I see, muchos gracias all the same for Hashimoto/Fujiwara and Cicloncito/Damiancito


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Was watching the Smackdown from 99 where Jericho had to fight Shamrock in a First Blood match (Shamrock's last match in WWE) and HHH was actually in five matches in that show :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

How are DM's upload speeds? And what is the best video converter? Plz don't say Total Video Converter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock/Undertaker wrestling again after all these years is like Undertaker/HBK all over again.

HBK/Undertaker

1997 - GZ - great match, incredible build to the next match
1997 - HIAC - *****
1998 - Casket Match - still great but not usually remembered as fondly as the others

11 years later

2009 - WM - *****
2010 - WM *****

Lesnar/Undertaker

2002 - UF - great match, incredible build to the next match
2002 - HIAC - *****
2003 - Chain Match - still great but not usually remembered as fondly as the others

11 years later

2014 - WM - *****?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hashimoto vs Fujiwara? What now?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> How are DM's upload speeds? And what is the best video converter. Plz don't say Total Video Converter.


From DVD to AVI? AutoGK.  My upload speed is always pretty shit but DM is usually very quick.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Taker looked so boss on RAW. Really felt larger than life.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Thanks, zep.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz did you want to give Taker a standing ovation?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Thanks, zep.


NP. Just load the vob file, you can also choose a custom MB size for the output video file too. Excellent program all round. Great quality.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll have to watch the Taker/Lesnar stuff from RAW. I watched half of RAW, but went to bed after the Sheamus/Christian match. Is HHH/Bryan confirmed for Mania then?


SKINS said:


> Edit: And to think he didnt even have the most badass entrance of that single match either unk2


Yep. Punk's WM 29 entrance was just awesome:






Makes me miss Punk just watching it again. :sad: Apparently Bray Wyatt's theme will be played live at Mania this year, that should be great.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan/HHH was all but confirmed. :lol at Bryan dressing like Punk with the hoodie and shorts over his gear though


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> I'll have to watch the Taker/Lesnar stuff from RAW. I watched half of RAW, but went to bed after the Sheamus/Christian match. Is HHH/Bryan confirmed for Mania then?
> 
> 
> Yep. Punk's WM 29 entrance was just awesome:
> ...


I miss Phil so much it hurts , yea Bryan starting to put on hoodies now , dont like it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Punk/Lesnar still tops it, but just BARELY. I have the 6 man over Cena/Brock.


To answer your question from earlier. No, Benoit/Austin and Benoit/Brock are still up. As I said, it's PPV matches and full episodes that have been mostly blocked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If we're not getting Sheamus vs Cesaro at Mania, we better get "one more match" from Sheamus & Christian next. They're so good together. A full tilt heel Christian to give the next match a big wrinkle. Although, I'm really digging where Christian is at atm. There's no specific alignment. He'll be babyface + aggressive a la a heel in the same match. That's terrific.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Watched Lesnar vs. Punk again and holy fuck, that match is still amazing and holds up for me. I gave it ***** when I watched it live, gave it time, watched it again, and it still holds up. So good. Makes me look forward to Lesnar vs. Taker even more + miss Punk.

Undertaker vs. Lesnar to headline, please :mark:

and yeah, Wyatt-Shield at WM probably wouldn't have had the same match as they did on Sunday. Sunday gave them more time to shine + you could hear the crowd and get more into it. It was amazing. Wrestlemania would have given them 13-15 minutes, I guess and that's that, compared to the 25 mins or whatever it got on Sunday.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Brock/Undertaker wrestling again after all these years is like Undertaker/HBK all over again.
> 
> HBK/Undertaker
> 
> ...


YES.



HayleySabin said:


> If we're not getting Sheamus vs Cesaro at Mania, we better get "one more match" from Sheamus & Christian next. They're so good together. A full tilt heel Christian to give the next match a big wrinkle. Although, I'm really digging where Christian is at atm. There's no specific alignment. He'll be babyface + aggressive a la a heel in the same match. That's terrific.


I'm happy with Swagger/Cesaro too which seems to be a lock. 15 minutes and let it open the show. Cesaro/Zayn V at Mania? I WISH.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

6:45, brothers.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty sure Goldust vs Cody is opening mania, which makes sense, 2 brothers opening mania 20 years after 2 brothers hoted mania? 

rewatched EC

Swagger/Langston: ***1/4 

Usos/Old farts: ** 

Darren/Titus: * 

Shield/Wyatts: ****3/4 

Cameron/AJ: DUD 

Batista/ADR: DUD 

EC match: ****1/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Watched Lesnar vs. Punk again and holy fuck, that match is still amazing and holds up for me. I gave it ***** when I watched it live, gave it time, watched it again, and it still holds up. So good. Makes me look forward to Lesnar vs. Taker even more + miss Punk.
> 
> *Undertaker vs. Lesnar to headline, please* :mark:
> 
> and yeah, Wyatt-Shield at WM probably wouldn't have had the same match as they did on Sunday. Sunday gave them more time to shine + you could hear the crowd and get more into it. It was amazing. Wrestlemania would have given them 13-15 minutes, I guess and that's that, compared to the 25 mins or whatever it got on Sunday.


Please let that be the case :banderas


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> How are DM's upload speeds? And what is the best video converter? Plz don't say Total Video Converter.


I use freemake. Trying to rip videos from stream sites can be a buggy jumpy glitchy mess, but the format conversions have always worked for me. I have to convert videos to MP2 for them to work on DVD player via USB. *MP2*.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Chismo said:


> 6:45, brothers.


holy shit


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

@SMITTY There's no sign of that match happening so far. Plus it wouldn't get the recognition it deserves with a 4 main event match card. I'm also afraid of that match getting zero to little time or being shifted into the pre show.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Has it been said whether or not Mania will be 5 hours like XX was?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Sold on Taker/Lesnar. They should produce a great match. Really, the only thing I am looking forward to about the Bryan/HHH match is Bryan going over.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Taker/Lesnar should close Mania. Give us a classic match to close Mania and send fans off happy, the fans will shit over Orton/Batista and for a good majority of fans they won't give a shit who wins. 



HayleySabin said:


> If we're not getting Sheamus vs Cesaro at Mania, we better get "one more match" from Sheamus & Christian next. They're so good together. A full tilt heel Christian to give the next match a big wrinkle. Although, I'm really digging where Christian is at atm. There's no specific alignment. He'll be babyface + aggressive a la a heel in the same match. That's terrific.


I hope Christian will get on the card somehow, although it may be unlikely with how stacked this years Mania will be. He hasn't had a match at a WrestleMania since WM 26, and hasn't had a singles match since WM 20. That's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Yeah, Christian's direction is pretty interesting atm, I'm digging his extra aggressiveness and his desperate character. Every match he's had since returning has been quality and he put in a real good performance in the Chamber match. He's so under-appreciated by the company and he deserves a WrestleMania match especially when you consider this could be his last year.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Has it been said whether or not Mania will be 5 hours like XX was?


Pre Show will last 1 hour. So yes, basically.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, gotcha. (Y)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sono Shion said:


> @SMITTY There's no sign of that match happening so far. Plus it wouldn't get the recognition it deserves with a 4 main event match card. I'm also afraid of that match getting zero to little time or being shifted into the pre show.


Yeah I just realized that, I read something that Goldust wants that match before he calls it quits, but they dont really have the momentum atm. 

I'm indifferent at the thought of mania being 5 hours, if you think about it WM XX had a shit ton of filler but they have a really good roster right now. When people like Rey Mysterio cant make the card for a PPV then we have a strong roster.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 hours is exactly what they need this year because for the last few years they've REALLY struggled with timing for matches. Doesn't help that they throw in random musical guests to perform a bunch of wank songs or have a host show up to cut s 15 minute promo that is utterly pointless.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Exactly. Less time on garbage filler shit and more time for matches please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> I'm happy with Swagger/Cesaro too which seems to be a lock. 15 minutes and let it open the show. Cesaro/Zayn V at Mania? I WISH.


As am I on principle of the match. Only, not wanting Cesaro to go face. He's assimilated so well into being a heel w/the WWE style. 15 minutes thing...yeah, we wish. It's WM. Nobody gets 15 minutes unless you you only work 3 or less matches a year.



Chismo said:


> 6:45, brothers.


I'm in love.



Nostalgia said:


> I hope Christian will get on the card somehow, although it may be unlikely with how stacked this years Mania will be. He hasn't had a match at a WrestleMania since WM 26, and hasn't had a singles match since WM 20. That's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. Yeah, Christian's direction is pretty interesting atm, I'm digging his extra aggressiveness and his desperate character. Every match he's had since returning has been quality and he put in a real good performance in the Chamber match. He's so under-appreciated by the company and he deserves a WrestleMania match especially when you consider this could be his last year.


I think he has a decent shot this year. The Sheamus thing seems like a program and Sheamus is WAY too important to the company to not make the card. Christian has proven his worth - lol @ having to do so, but sheesh - in showing a program/match w/Sheamus is a solid plan. I never know what to expect come WM anymore. Although, this has a chance imo. Or it feels like it based on what we've been given so far.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't really care anymore at this point. Seeing Lesnar/Taker live in person & potentially Bryan making H tap out will provide tears of joy.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I refuse to speculate on potential matches after i tried doing that last year and got super excited at the potential of the matches I thought they were gonna do.

Why didn't we get Jericho/Dolph :cuss:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Taker/Lesnar is gonna be match of the night, no doubt about it.

And Bryan/HHH might be the second best match, but who knows.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Chismo said:


> 6:45, brothers.


:mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I refuse to speculate on potential matches after i tried doing that last year and got super excited at the potential of the matches I thought they were gonna do.
> 
> Why didn't we get Jericho/Dolph :cuss:


Would have been great. Unfortunately, I doubt Dolph will even be on the card, this year. Those tweets he was sending out on Raw probably weren't helping his cause, much, either. :hmm:

In any case, I think we'll just get Orton/Batista, Bryan/HHH, and, obviously, Taker/Lesnar as the Main Event matches. Cena/Wyatt replacing the Orton/Batista match as a Main Event match would have been great, but, I doubt it will given that Orton/Batista is for the WWEWHC.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

ATF said:


> Yeah, to me if there were six Match Of The Generation/Era contenders, they would be:
> 1) The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25
> 2) The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26
> 3) John Cena vs. CM Punk, MITB 2011
> ...


What no Bryan/Punk OTL? or Bryan/Cena Summerlsam?. People are really overrating this Shield/Wyatt match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

There is no way Dolph is getting on the card sadly.

Does anyone know if Cena is ok?



> What no Bryan/Punk OTL? or Bryan/Cena Summerlsam?. People are really overrating this Shield/Wyatt match.


It's impossible to overrate that match.
__________________


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think Bryan/Cena comes close to any of those tbh. Good match, maybe **** range if you insist on a star rating. Bryan/Punk was technically very good but didn't really have a solid build like the other matches.

edit Tyler I think it was confirmed to be a work.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Cena's injury wasn't legit. As soon as they showed him being carried out and kept emphasizing it, that should've been obvious.





Love how they edited out the botched super kick or whatever it was at 1:03. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Bray is def a main event match. It's Cena. It matters; a LOT.



hardyorton said:


> What no Bryan/Punk OTL? or Bryan/Cena Summerlsam?. People are really overrating this Shield/Wyatt match.


:hayden3


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

hardyorton said:


> What no Bryan/Punk OTL? or Bryan/Cena Summerlsam?. People are really overrating this Shield/Wyatt match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

People overrate the Bryan/Cena match too much because its Bryan in the main event of summerlam and Bryan marks jizz over that, and 2 because of the great ending. 

The match is still really good, **** is what I gave it, nowhere close to Punk/Lesnar, Shield/Wyatts, Shield TLC, any Punk/Cena, Cena/Lesnar, ETC


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Bray is def a main event match. It's Cena. It matters; a LOT.


That's also what I was thinking, but I have trouble seeing how they will manage four Main Event matches. Last year, they had a 3 ME structure, and they could do 4, this year, but it seems unlikely to me.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

RhodesForWHC said:


> That's also what I was thinking, but I have trouble seeing how they will manage four Main Event matches. Last year, they had a 3 ME structure, and they could do 4, this year, but it seems unlikely to me.


Randy/Batista to be shifted into the pre show :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk OTL is the best match to happen since Undertaker/HBK WM 26. But Cena/Bryan ain't on the level of a lot of stuff, only ***3/4 for that. Says more about the QUALITY of other shizzle we've had lately :mark:. Got FORTY TWO matches on my "super fun + best of" set for this year so far. 42. In 2 months. And I haven't added anything from Raw last night yet. And we still have a SD to go, which hopefully will continue it's AWESOMENESS this week too. Oh and CESARO/ZAYN takes place this week too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM 26 had an abundance of main events and it was structured well. It's do'able.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't think Bryan/Cena comes close to any of those tbh. Good match, maybe **** range if you insist on a star rating. Bryan/Punk was technically very good but didn't really have a solid build like the other matches.
> 
> edit Tyler I think it was confirmed to be a work.


Good to know (Y)

The ME has to be Taker/Brock or Cena/Bray & I'm a guy who always believes the title should go on last, but come on Batista/Orton will get so much more heat and boo's then Rock/Cena II.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> Cena's injury wasn't legit. As soon as they showed him being carried out and kept emphasizing it, that should've been obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol. Yeah, Cena's injury wasn't legitimate, like you said, they were emphasizing it a bit too much. Lots of reports suggesting it' fake, as well. 



Sono Shion said:


> Randy/Batista to be shifted into the pre show :hb


:banderas


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

All those matches are classics marks, shut up unk2

I yea I thought it was a work from the get go, but I heard so many on here say its legit


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Sono Shion said:


> Randy/Batista to be shifted into the pre show :hb


And it will NOT be televised on the WWE Network or the WWE App. :vince2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bryan/Cena > Punk/Lesnar.



Yeah1993 said:


> I use freemake. Trying to rip videos from stream sites can be a buggy jumpy glitchy mess, but the format conversions have always worked for me. I have to convert videos to MP2 for them to work on DVD player via USB. *MP2*.


Thanks, but AutoGK seems better, already dled it.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> but come on Batista/Orton will get so much more heat and boo's then Rock/Cena II.


Rocky/Cena II was nothing in what's to come for Batista/Randy. Goldberg/Lesnar comes to mind.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> WM 26 had an abundance of main events and it was structured well. It's do'able.


One could hope they'd pull it off. Batista/Orton is a guaranteed DUD, anyway. It will get shat on throughout the match, regardless of whether they are turning Batista like the rumors suggested. Awful match incoming, especially with how bad Batista's been in the ring, since returning. Never mind that I wouldn't be interested if he was in the shape he was in when he quit.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> Rocky/Cena II was nothing in what's to come for Batista/Randy. Goldberg/Lesnar comes to mind.


That's exactly my point, there is no way they can possibly end the show with that garbage when you got TAKER/BROCK.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I think he has a decent shot this year. The Sheamus thing seems like a program and Sheamus is WAY too important to the company to not make the card. Christian has proven his worth - lol @ having to do so, but sheesh - in showing a program/match w/Sheamus is a solid plan. I never know what to expect come WM anymore. Although, this has a chance imo. Or it feels like it based on what we've been given so far.


I'm wondering how they'll fit all these potential matches on the card. The last two Mania's had 8 matches on the card (excluding the pre-show) and Taker/Brock, HHH/Bryan, Orton/Batista, Cena/Bray - is half the card right there. Add Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose triple threat which will probably happen, that's 5 matches - but then you're left with these potential matches: Rhodes/Goldust, Swagger/Cesaro, Christian/Sheamus, tag title match (although this would probably be on the pre-show) they'll probably be some divas matches as well, and what about guys like Del Rio, and returns like Jericho and RVD? (which WWE are rumored to want back for Mania). All these possibilities. 



William Murderface said:


> I refuse to speculate on potential matches after i tried doing that last year and got super excited at the potential of the matches I thought they were gonna do.
> 
> Why didn't we get Jericho/Dolph :cuss:


Fantasy Mania cards are always more exciting then what they give us. I too wanted Jericho/Ziggler at Mania after they renewed their good rivalry from the previous summer in the Rumble match where they both lasted the longest in the match. Jericho/Ziggler would of been much better than the Jericho/Fandango match we got, and it would of been better than the tag title match Ziggler was stuck in. Ziggler's never had the chance to prove himself in a singles match at Mania, and sadly, he won't be getting that opportunity this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me kept thinking Cena wasn't legit hurt only on the basis of saying "Bray Wyatt & his family took out Cena w/o even trying; what's in store for WM?!" etc. It could be a decent way of keeping Cena from working a match on TV on the road to WM. Not sure why that would matter if he's working house shows...but that's the mentality of the company at times.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly, the only matches that could main event WM XXX for me are Undertaker/Brock because NOBODY can follow Taker these days, or Bryan/HHH IF they are giving Bryan the big win. Cena/Bray just doesn't look like a WRESTLEMANIA main event to me. Any other PPV and it'd close the show no questions asked. But WM? WM THIRTY ending with either Cena defeating the somewhat big bad Bray, or Bray getting a big win over Cena. Just don't feel that BIG to me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys pls dont talk about Ziggler, the heart cant take it


Also I have a question for folks on here back in 2011, how was build to Cena/Miz mania received on here and by crowds ? Is it near Orton/Batista bad ?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Fantasy Mania cards are always more exciting then what they give us. I too wanted Jericho/Ziggler at Mania after they renewed their good rivalry from the previous summer in the Rumble match where they both lasted the longest in the match. Jericho/Ziggler would of been much better than the Jericho/Fandango match we got, and it would of been better than the tag title match Ziggler was stuck in. Ziggler's never had the chance to prove himself in a singles match at Mania, and sadly, he won't be getting that opportunity this year.


That is the exact reason why i refuse to speculate too much this year.



> Also I have a question for folks on here back in 2011, how was Cena/Miz receive on here and by crowds ? Is it near Orton/Batista bad ?


I was excited for it because it was different & then the match actually happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Honestly, the only matches that could main event WM XXX for me are Undertaker/Brock because NOBODY can follow Taker these days, or Bryan/HHH IF they are giving Bryan the big win. Cena/Bray just doesn't look like a WRESTLEMANIA main event to me. Any other PPV and it'd close the show no questions asked. But WM? WM THIRTY ending with either Cena defeating the somewhat big bad Bray, or Bray getting a big win over Cena. Just don't feel that BIG to me.


Nah, nobody is claiming it to end the show. But it's still one of their main events on the card w/o a doubt.



SKINS said:


> Guys pls dont talk about Ziggler, the heart cant take it
> 
> 
> Also I have a question for folks on here back in 2011, how was build to Cena/Miz mania received on here and by crowds ? Is it near Orton/Batista bad ?


Nah. It was just met w/o a care in the world & laughable that Rock was overshadowing Miz for 99% of the program.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The fact Cena is in it makes it a "main event" match for sure. But just not "close WM" main event .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Honestly, the only matches that could main event WM XXX for me are Undertaker/Brock because NOBODY can follow Taker these days, or Bryan/HHH IF they are giving Bryan the big win. Cena/Bray just doesn't look like a WRESTLEMANIA main event to me. Any other PPV and it'd close the show no questions asked. But WM? WM THIRTY ending with either Cena defeating the somewhat big bad Bray, or Bray getting a big win over Cena. Just don't feel that BIG to me.


This. Wyatt/Cena isn't big enough to headline Mania 30, even if it's Cena. No title involved either. Orton/Batista shouldn't go on last unless they want a repeat of WM18 with everyone fleeing for the exits. Or worse, a riot ensuing.

Taker/Brock or HHH/Bryan (with Bryan winning) are both acceptable imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is actually one WM where Triple H going on last by proxy of putting Danielson over is actually acceptable. Watch as it doesn't happen in favor for Orton vs Batista. :ti

It still should clearly be Undertaker vs Lesnar. Lets be real. Something about Danielson closing the show would absolutely be grand from my perspective though. I won't even try and deny it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM XXX ending with YES chants that put the Raw cage ending to shame. A dream . A beautiful dream .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He's the most over guy on the roster. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility (considering who he's up against as well).

Bigger long-term implications obviously lean toward Bryan closing, though the bigger match might end up being Taker/Lesnar. I'm happy with either closing.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just watched The Shield vs. Los Matadores & Sin Cara from Main Event last week via the Network. Really fun match. The ending was fantastic. DAT Team work by The Shield was great. And I can't get enough of the Blackout. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm good with either Bryan/HHH or Taker/Lesnar closing. I still think Orton/Batista has the best chance and Cena/Wyatt doesn't have much of one. Then again, I'm not very good at predicting Manias. :side:

Turned on WWE Network to see Cameron vs. Aksana. LOLNO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ahh Yes, back when Rocky was the main thing on wwe television again, seems like years ago


Welp, need something to watch, and no I dont have the network


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well I'm pretty bored so I might as well get back on my 04 PPV reviews, No mercy 2004 is next. first match of the night is Luther reigns vs Eddie Guerrero, what a dilemma I face here regarding whether or not to watch it :|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not awful, but it's sorely mediocre. You could do worse; for example, some of the matches you saw on Sunday via Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I think I'll watch Eddie carry a boring POS and then not watch the abomination that will be Cena vs Booker T 

Oh Smackdown 2004, why do you suck so much?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's actually a solid event for the majority though. So, it's not all bad. Still, Smackdown in 2004 & early 2005. Wow. Then RAW was real good. Apparently one had to always be better than the other.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I know Kidman/London will be awesome and I have high hopes for Angle/Show considering I love their Armageddon 02 match(actually a huge fan of the Big Show up until he left in 2006). I had Taker/JBL Summerslam at like *** or ***1/4, so I'll be happy if this one is on par with that, hopefully it better. 

LOL at Reigns being like Batista in this match in terms of getting gassed :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show vs Angle isn't nearly as strong as their Armageddon '02 match. It's a match of two halves - Show beating up Kurt = fun. Angle's terrible work on Show's leg = ehhhh. 

London vs Kidman, RVD/Mysterio vs Dupree/Kenzo, six person tag, & Taker vs JBL. That's the good side. Only "bad" match I'd actively say was Cena vs Booker, which is to be expected. Rest were forgettable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Show vs Angle isn't nearly as strong as their Armageddon '02 match. It's a match of two halves - Show beating up Kurt = fun. Angle's terrible work on Show's leg = ehhhh.
> 
> London vs Kidman, RVD/Mysterio vs Dupree/Kenzo, six person tag, & Taker vs JBL. That's the good side. Only "bad" match I'd actively say was Cena vs Booker, which is to be expected. Rest were forgettable.



This is why you don't need the network Hayley, you have seen and remember every match of any insignificance in WWE (ie anything that happened on PPV) :lmao

Just watched Cena/Batista LMS, it's still every bit as good as I remembered. Wow Batista needs to be a heel NOW, it won't keep him from blowing up in 45 seconds but it'll atleast make him bearable.

Taker/Mankind RotT is still the best, I actually consider it the best match of their series of 6 PPV matches. Good god, the bumps Foley takes head first into the railing in the beginning :mark: How that many has any brain cells left, is seriously a miracle of God. What a war.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't hurt rewatching a good bit of WWE 2004 recently either. :side:

If I were to get the network down the line, it's for what I've been gushing about since the beginning - WCW PPVS. Looking crisp and w/fairly minimal edits, that's just too wonderful.

Do you remember Taker vs Mankind from KOTR '96 well? MY GOD @ that match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Flair's entrance at Chi-Town Rumble is one of my favorite and it got cut . The trumpeters and band coming out before Flair is such a great moment. In my GOAT entrances


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think its a travesty that Luther/Eddie gets 15 mins yet London/Kidman gets 5 minutes less 

That match :banderas


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> I think its a travesty that Luther/Eddie gets 15 mins yet London/Kidman gets 5 minutes less
> 
> That match :banderas


And it's still better :banderas

I'm more then happy with the Eddie/Luther match because it could have been SO much worse, NWO 2005 comes to mind :|fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie Guerrero pinned Luther Reigns (13:21)

vs

Billy Kidman pinned Paul London (10:36)

At least we know which match is worth seeing. Ten minutes & their own program at that time was amazing all own it's own accord, tbhayley.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I loved that match, I love both those guys in general tbh, I'm sure their is some good gems from when they were the tag champs I need to look up. 

Done with No mercy 2004 for now, will finish tomorrow, I'm beyond tired, attribute that to having to get up at 5:30 each morning


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Doesn't hurt rewatching a good bit of WWE 2004 recently either. :side:
> 
> If I were to get the network down the line, it's for what I've been gushing about since the beginning - WCW PPVS. Looking crisp and w/fairly minimal edits, that's just too wonderful.
> 
> Do you remember Taker vs Mankind from KOTR '96 well? MY GOD @ that match.



I bought the Greatest Rivalries Set for 2 reasons: to own Tully/Magnum I Quit and Taker/Mankind KotR on Blu Ray. I LOVE that match, it's the match that made me a full blown Foley mark as a kid. I honestly think it was probably Takers first GREAT match. I love the way it's built, it just slowly gets more intense, more intense, more wild, then the last 5-10 minutes are pure bedlam. Man, just talking about it has me reconsidering my position on Revenge being the best of their series. For now I'm sticking with Revenge being the best, as I just saw it and it's clear as day in my mind, but I have a feeling I'll be viewing King of the Ring 1996 very soon.

King of the Ring: ****1/2
Buried Alive: ****
Boiler Room Brawl: ****
Revenge of the Taker: ****1/2
Survivor Series: ***1/2-need to rewatch it's been AGES
Hell in a Cell: ****1/2

My favorite feud of all time


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Yeah I loved that match, I love both those guys in general tbh, I'm sure their is some good gems from when they were the tag champs I need to look up.
> 
> Done with No mercy 2004 for now, will finish tomorrow, I'm beyond tired, attribute that to having to get up at 5:30 each morning


Did you watch the tag titles from No Mercy 04?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No thats on next, should I? because it has Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree on it :deandre

I was just going to wait until tomorrow when I have more energy to write


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd probably say Undertaker vs Bret was his first "great" match off the top of my head. That one is a bit of a blur and unsure how well it holds up after how much I'm not keen on the '97 matches. The point here is 1996 is the turning point when Undertaker started to cut loose a lot more in the ring. The combo vs Foley was so natural. It's almost as if they knew they would be perfect for one another. Omg. So inspired to watch all of their matches right now. I just watched the Buried Alive & Survivor Series '96 matches not too long ago too. And it feels like I'm watching the HIAC at least twice per month, haha. But this sounds like a plan if I'm watching any wrestling tonight that isn't keeping up w/Puro in 2014. :mark:

KOTR '96 match is still tied w/ROTT atm, but I'm ever so slightly leaning towards KOTR right now. The impact of having to make their first match a success & they hit it out of the park. Throw in the shocker upset win; amazing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Bret match is Undertaker's first great match, followed by Diesel at WM. 1996 is when WWF finally started giving Undertaker competent opponents for big matches. Foley series is just LENNY SMILEY. ROTT is #1, then probably HIAC as #2 but that varies depending on what people think to it. KOTR is :mark:. Think I only saw it for the first time when I got Undertaker's Deadliest Matches set, so not that long ago really. I didn't know the outcome or anything so Foley winning like he did was :O and :mark:.

Shame their Boiler Room Brawl match is pure TRASH.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> No thats on next, should I? because it has Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree on it :deandre
> 
> I was just going to wait until tomorrow when I have more energy to write


I personally think the match is fantastic, but it is up to you if you have the strength to watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why did I know you were going to fit that in somewhere? NO. It was almost a perfect Cal post, too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TRASH and you fucking know it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The only thing about it that's trash was the commentary being nothing but groans until they make their way out of the boiler room. But that just makes the crew look dumb, more than taking away from the AWESOME brawl.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well regardless, now I really wanna watch all of their matches together. DAMN YOU. I totally had like, other things to do and... yey Undertaker Vs Mankind matches .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I would signal an Undertaker and/or Foley smiley, but we don't have one. This will suffice: :hayley3!!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> I personally think the match is fantastic, but it is up to you if you have the strength to watch it.


Oh I will definetly watch it, just think that I'll get more enjoyment out of the match when I'm not about to fall asleep at my computer screen.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Read the SD spoilers because I won't be home on Friday, and...



Spoiler: SD



SHIELD VS. WYATTS ON RAW NEXT MONDAY. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Can't say I've watched most of those, indeed.
> 
> Let's rephrase that: "Best American trios match *that I've watched, imo*. Nuff said"
> 
> Yeah, I feel kinda safer now. And a bit more stupid too. But safer mostly.


Eh, you could still safely say that it's the best American trios match. Duggan/RnR vs. Ladd/Express is really good (Ernie Ladd :mark, but even that doesn't hold a candle to Shield/Wyatts. And the Freebirds were great, but WCCW wasn't entirely known for its match quality. Their best trios matches (7/4/83 and 7/4/84 against the Von Erichs) are also not as good as Shield/Wyatts. The real competition comes in the form of the AJPW tags. Specifically the 4/20/91 tag.

LMFAO at what happened in the crowd on Smackdown. Funniest shit ever.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

So I finally watched The Wyatts vs The Shield which was amazing, precisely ****1/2 amazing. I have faith in them breaching that five star/perfect range if there was no tag-in rules handicapping the pace of action, a personal rivalry deserves an environment with no rules and no limitations, anything goes. That's the one thing The Shield vs Hell No & Ryback have over this and claims position as the best Shield match and 2012 MOTY.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

After repeatedly looking at Hayley's gif sig, Undertaker resembles a vampire king from some movie, or was it a werewolf king, regardless he does look villainous.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Watching Goldberg in 1998 is just :banderas


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching Goldberg in 1998 is worse than watching Kofi Kingston.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Can anybody tell me what DVD has the full hour of Angle vs Brock?

Also, does anybody know if documentaries are supposed to be uploaded on the network at some point?


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can anybody tell me what DVD has the full hour of Angle vs Brock?
> 
> Also, does anybody know if documentaries are supposed to be uploaded on the network at some point?


It's on Greatets WWE's superstars of the 21st century DVD, I know it's on that.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Watching Goldberg in 1998 is worse than watching Kofi Kingston.


You just earned yourself a lifetime supply of Kofi rep for that very upsetting comment you just made.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Why all the Nahaje Sarkodie-Mensah hate? 

#SKILLZ #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #FUCKINGBOOMGODDAMMIT


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

So, after a few rewatches, I'm bumping my rating for The Shield vs The Wyatts to ****3/4 from ****1/2 stars. Yep.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> Why all the Nahaje Sarkodie-Mensah hate?
> 
> #SKILLZ #BOOM #BOOM #BOOM #FUCKINGBOOMGODDAMMIT


Because Kofi is a useless piece of crap.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can anybody tell me what DVD has the full hour of Angle vs Brock?
> 
> Also, does anybody know if documentaries are supposed to be uploaded on the network at some point?


It's also on Brock's Here Comes the Pain Blu-Ray/DVD, along with their 'Mania match.

and yes, the documentaries will be there at some point.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched "Old School: MSG show on 10/27/91" on the network. Card:

Bully vs Texas Tornado
Davey Boy Smith vs IRS
Mountie vs Neidhart
Flair vs Piper
Col. Mustafa vs Big Bossman
Berzerker vs Bret Hart 
Hercules vs Tito Santana 
LOD vs Natural Disasters 

wow this was bad. Berzerker vs Bret for MOTN @ **1/2. Basically a Berzerker squash until Bret hit a roll up. IRS/Davey Boy went to a 20 minute draw, that match was BAD.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah Bret match is Undertaker's first great match, followed by Diesel at WM. 1996 is when WWF finally started giving Undertaker competent opponents for big matches. Foley series is just LENNY SMILEY. ROTT is #1, then probably HIAC as #2 but that varies depending on what people think to it. KOTR is :mark:. Think I only saw it for the first time when I got Undertaker's Deadliest Matches set, so not that long ago really. I didn't know the outcome or anything so Foley winning like he did was :O and :mark:.
> 
> Shame their Boiler Room Brawl match is pure TRASH.



I honestly feel like someone needs to sit down and watch that Boiler Room Brawl with you and explain why it's so fantastic. For someone that always raves about guys punching it out and great FIGHTS, it makes no sense to me, none, how you cannot love that brawl. Hayley hit the nail on the head, the only negative is the lack of commentary which is a bit weird at times. Seriously though, the way that match starts is just pure genius. Taker wandering through the dark murky boiler room, Mankind hiding in the shadows, the loud hum of the machines doing what ever those machines do. Then in the corner of the screen you see movement, and Foley just attacks Taker out of nowhere. It's like a horror movie, and it couldn't fit the characters involved anymore perfectly. The fact that their isn't any crowd noise, and you can hear all the grunts and screams is just totally unsettling and AWESOME at the same time. I can see why Foley considers that match his unloved child, very few people ever rave about it, but for me it's just so bad ass. Name 2 other wrestlers who could have pulled that off as well as they did? You can't cause their aren't, it was a match tailor made for Foley and Taker. Michael Hayes was the agent for it and was there with the camera guy to film it, and he said it's one of the most brutal things he's ever watched, because those 2 beat the absolute shit out of each other.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just get bored with it. Drags on waaaaay too long and I don't think the brawling was anything special from them compared to normal. But I shall at some point re-watch it because thanks to Cody I wanna watch all of their matches again .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey Zep, if you see this is there a chance you could upload Cena/Batista LMS EX ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Flair vs Piper


Been meaning to watch the '81 Flair/Piper match for ages (that did happen, right?). Didn't realise the '91 one was that bad,


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Hey Zep, if you see this is there a chance you could upload Cena/Batista LMS EX ?



Watched that last night on the Network, by far the best non-Taker match Batista had since his 2005 Hell in a Cell match with Hunter. Batista only had like 10 really great matches, and over half of them were with Taker involved, but that LMS bout was equal parts Batista and Cena making it great. I loved how Cena would keep selling while breaking the 10 count. Instead of just standing up to break it, he would fling his body up off the mat, stagger for a split second at the count of 9 to break it up, then crumple into a heap again while Baista was just becoming more and more irate in the corner. The only negative I have is that the first 5 minutes are rather lackluster and the spots were a tad contrived for my taste. Otherwise, just an awesome battle between the two "faces of the WWE".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Hey Zep, if you see this is there a chance you could upload Cena/Batista LMS EX ?


Found it here:

xd4l19
xd4lis


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

About the Undertaker/Mankind Boiler Room match, it was very good, not great, but a good match in my opinion ***1/2 for it. Bearer's turn makes this even greater.

I strongly recommend you guys to watch the Wrestlemania Rewind if you've got the Network. Really loved how Piper and Okerlund broke the fourth wall, and it wasn't only them.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Just watched revenge of the taker (April 97) for the first time : What a good show!!

The 2 main events were absolutely fantastic

*Taker/Mankind WWF title *: Fantastic. Mick foley is a god indeed. He gave his best for this match and Taker was awesome as well. The spot on the annonce table is great.

*Bret/Austin*: The third match between the 2. But still highly entertaining. Austin can brawl damn it and Bret was vicious.

Besides that 2 good matches

*LOD/Owen and Bulldog TT title*: Good match, very entertaining

*Rocky/Savio Vega IC title*: best Rocky match since his debut. I was amazed how fast he'd improved since Survivor series 96. Vega is a hell of a worker.

And one really medium match

*Jesse james/Rockabilly (billy gun)*: Nothing special, but i love the honky tonk man.

If you never watched it, go see Mankind/Taker.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm kinda on a split on what was MOTN from ROTT, both Bret vs Austin and Taker vs Mankind were excellent matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'm kinda on a split on what was MOTN from ROTT, both Bret vs Austin and Taker vs Mankind were excellent matches.



Bret/Austin was really good, but Taker/Mankind is otherworldly. It's not even close for me, and I'm a big fan of both Austin and Bret.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> *Watched that last night on the Network,* by far the best non-Taker match Batista had since his 2005 Hell in a Cell match with Hunter. Batista only had like 10 really great matches, and over half of them were with Taker involved, but that LMS bout was equal parts Batista and Cena making it great. I loved how Cena would keep selling while breaking the 10 count. Instead of just standing up to break it, he would fling his body up off the mat, stagger for a split second at the count of 9 to break it up, then crumple into a heap again while Baista was just becoming more and more irate in the corner. The only negative I have is that the first 5 minutes are rather lackluster and the spots were a tad contrived for my taste. Otherwise, just an awesome battle between the two "faces of the WWE".


Show-off


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Other than Beach Blast 92 and Spring Stampede 94, can someone throw some of the best WCW PPVs from 1992 and after, please.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So far the Network has been GARBAGE. First thing my roommate did was a search for Scott Steiner :lmao

We tried watching JD 03 (I hadn't ever seen it before, but he really just wanted to hear Steiner's entrance theme), and it took forever to load. When it finally did, it played for about 2 minutes then stopped. That was through my PS3.

Then I tried to watch some old ECW PPVs on my laptop, and those wouldn't even load. :|

Maybe it's just that I'm trying to watch garbage shows? :hb


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> First thing my roommate did was a search for Scott Steiner :lmao


:lmao Incredible.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Other than Beach Blast 92 and Spring Stampede 94, can someone throw some of the best WCW PPVs from 1992 and after, please.


Superbrawl II
Wrestle War 1992
Spring Stampede 1999
Starrcade 1995
Great American Bash 1996

Few i can think of atm.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine- Dog Collar match at Starrcade 83'

I watched this on the network. Really dug this old school brawl. Going in order of PPVS by year, I figure I'd start with Starrcade. Slogged through the first few matches to get to this gem. It's a great match, both Valentine and Piper put some nice touches on the match.. Piper found a smart way to get out of a sleeper. The match was real hot. Finish sucked imo but the aftermath with Valentine choking out Piper was pretty brutal.

****


----------



## Romangirl252 (Feb 13, 2014)

I bought Shawn Michaels Mr. WrestleMania dvd yesterday...very good dvd and awesome matches he had


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I honestly feel like someone needs to sit down and watch that Boiler Room Brawl with you and explain why it's so fantastic. For someone that always raves about guys punching it out and great FIGHTS, it makes no sense to me, none, how you cannot love that brawl. Hayley hit the nail on the head, the only negative is the lack of commentary which is a bit weird at times. Seriously though, the way that match starts is just pure genius. Taker wandering through the dark murky boiler room, Mankind hiding in the shadows, the loud hum of the machines doing what ever those machines do. Then in the corner of the screen you see movement, and Foley just attacks Taker out of nowhere. It's like a horror movie, and it couldn't fit the characters involved anymore perfectly. The fact that their isn't any crowd noise, and you can hear all the grunts and screams is just totally unsettling and AWESOME at the same time. I can see why Foley considers that match his unloved child, very few people ever rave about it, but for me it's just so bad ass. Name 2 other wrestlers who could have pulled that off as well as they did? You can't cause their aren't, it was a match tailor made for Foley and Taker. Michael Hayes was the agent for it and was there with the camera guy to film it, and he said it's one of the most brutal things he's ever watched, because those 2 beat the absolute shit out of each other.





DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I just get bored with it. Drags on waaaaay too long and I don't think the brawling was anything special from them compared to normal. But I shall at some point re-watch it because thanks to Cody I wanna watch all of their matches again .


:mark:



The Lady Killer said:


> So far the Network has been GARBAGE. First thing my roommate did was a search for Scott Steiner :lmao
> 
> We tried watching JD 03 (I hadn't ever seen it before, but he really just wanted to hear Steiner's entrance theme), and it took forever to load. When it finally did, it played for about 2 minutes then stopped. That was through my PS3.
> 
> ...


:lmao

Talked w/another pal and he said it just started to barely work today, but only when he watched December 2 Dismember.



Lazyking said:


> Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine- Dog Collar match at Starrcade 83'
> 
> I watched this on the network. Really dug this old school brawl. Going in order of PPVS by year, I figure I'd start with Starrcade. Slogged through the first few matches to get to this gem. It's a great match, both Valentine and Piper put some nice touches on the match.. Piper found a smart way to get out of a sleeper. The match was real hot. Finish sucked imo but the aftermath with Valentine choking out Piper was pretty brutal.
> 
> ****


One of my favorites from the 80's.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My network's been running perfectly on my laptop (aside from some issues yesterday), but I haven't tried it on PS4 yet.

And since I just got done with a huge exam (that I hope I did well on), it's network time for the rest of this week! :delrio

Gonna watch ArRival when I get home Thursday night :mark: :zayn :cesaro


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Commending DAT SIG. :mark: The height of that chokeslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock bumping for Taker's offense come WM should OWN all.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

BORK'S bumping this year for Big Show and Undertaker have been insane. Can't fucking wait for the Brock vs. Taker match :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched HHH-Benoit from Vengeance 2004 today and DAMN it's good until that fucking finish. I mean, I guess it's OKAY for a Eugene run in, but the run in lasted so long that it took a little bit of the enjoyment out of the match for me. Thought Benoit's offense was superb and that Trips' selling was great as well, there was a pretty good deal of stiffness thrown in too. Benoit brought that intensity though and showed why he was one of the greatest to ever do it with some awesome struggle sequences where the jockeying for control of the match actually meant something in the grand scheme of things, with every move feeling impactful and important.

**** 3/4* for it. Might as well take a look at HHH-Austin from Survivor Series & No Way Out again and see why everybody hates them so dearly .


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I liked Austin vs. HHH last watch, but that was like...six years ago 

Probably doesn't hold up now that my taste has changed, and the city it takes place in sucks (although I hope they host a PPV this year instead of god damned Phoenix)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> No Way Out again and see why everybody hates them so dearly .


I still love that one.  A guilty pleasure of mine if you will.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Lazyking said:


> Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine- Dog Collar match at Starrcade 83'
> 
> I watched this on the network. Really dug this old school brawl. Going in order of PPVS by year, I figure I'd start with Starrcade. Slogged through the first few matches to get to this gem. It's a great match, both Valentine and Piper put some nice touches on the match.. Piper found a smart way to get out of a sleeper. The match was real hot. Finish sucked imo but the aftermath with Valentine choking out Piper was pretty brutal.
> 
> ****




I pretty much agree with you word for word here. I'm watching the same show because I want to do everything in order. I haven't made it very far because the VOD isn't very reliable but I did get to watch that match without any problems. 

Also the undercard of Starrcade 1983 is so bad. I want to say there were 5 matches in a little over an hour before the Dog Collar match and I was struggling to get through them.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I feel the same way about the Iron Man. Eugene just ruined it for me. And the payoff wasn't even worth it, as I don't enjoy the Summerslam the same way others do.

Also, NWO 2001 match is great, but you already know that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit's Vengeance 2004 match sucks. Way before Eugene came out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Got reminded of this in another thread:






Fucking love it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls match earlier in preparation for ARRIVAL. Still fantastic :mark:. Crazy to think that they could be a potential threat to the EC 6 man for MOTY thus far :mark:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I honestly haven't had 1 single issue with the network yet, other than the fact you can't search for Benoit :cuss: 

It's worked great, maybe once or twice on Monday a video would stop for 5 seconds or so then continue. So far I've watched all of Beach Blast, Sprinf Stampede 1994, Revenge of the Taker, Extreme Rules 2010, Fully Loaded 2000, and SuperBrawl II without issue. For those having issues, I think the biggest problem has been WWE didn't anticipate all the people from other countries finding back door ways to sign up, it was only supposed to be available in the US, so they have been overloaded. To me that's perfectly understandable, and as I've yet to pay a single penny for this Network, I don't know why anyone would complain. It should be working great for everyone by Monday. This is a brand new technology, never done before, there was bound to be a few issues before everyone got it working well. I'm just hoping and praying they can handle WM 30 without any lag.

By the way, did Harley Race blade Vaders back in their strap match? Watching it again closely last night, it sure seems like he did. If so, what a brilliant idea.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Totally acceptable for Angle/Henry to main event just for Undertaker to blow up the ring. Only proves how legendary he is to overshadow Mysterio's win in the namesake of the event's match AND Cena winning back the WWE Championship.

Taker entering in the epic carriage :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In regards to Heyman/Taker. Reminded me of this:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

In the mood for some old late 80s stuff, and not from the GAWD


Edit: Pls dont tell me I have to clarify who the Wrestling God is


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to finish up NM 2004, about halfway through the show

Skins watch the first match you find when you type in Vader vs on Youtube


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed w/SMITTY.

Although, watch Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck from Spring Stampede 1994. Watch a lot of WCW 1994, actually. You asked for 80's tho...so go nuts w/random Barry Windham or Greg Valentine matches. Back in forth sounds like a plan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I was gonna mention that, I know all you guys in here cream over WCW 92, but 1994 wcw is nothing to sneeze at either. Might by my favorite year in wrestling or one of, the in ring stuff from there is extraordinary


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Got past the first match on the Final Four ppv and it started lagging fpalm

Will try to get to the rest of that later, as I really want to that Fatal Four way, and apparently Rock/H for the IC belt is on there :mark:. Don't expect that to be very good, but whatever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Yea I was gonna mention that, I know all you guys in here cream over WCW 92, but 1994 wcw is nothing to sneeze at either. Might by my favorite year in wrestling or one of, the in ring stuff from there is extraordinary




Watch Pillman/Flamingo from Beach Blast 1992 if you're in the mood for some 90s, don't let the first 3-5 minutes fool you into thinking it's generic doo doo, they pick the pace up and deliver one hellacious match (Stone Cold Voice)

If you want some 80s flavor, check out the Valentine/Piper Dog Collar match from Starrcade 83' if you haven't already seen it. Vader/Dustin COTC is one of the best Vader matches ever, and Arn/Dustin from Saturday Night is PHENOMENAL. Funnyfaces turned me on to those and I can't praise them enough.

I know you're not a Macho Fan (how dare you for that) but his match with DiBiase in I believe 1988, in a big outdoor venue, is BAD ASS. Also, Steamboat/Jake Roberts had some tremendous matches in the WWE in the mid-late 80s


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

watch Alex Wright vs. Arn Anderson from Slamboree 95. Adore it so much. Plus it has one of, if not the, best DDTs ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Watch Pillman/Flamingo from Beach Blast 1992 if you're in the mood for some 90s, don't let the first 3-5 minutes fool you into thinking it's generic doo doo, they pick the pace up and deliver one hellacious match (Stone Cold Voice)
> 
> If you want some 80s flavor, check out the Valentine/Piper Dog Collar match from Starrcade 83' if you haven't already seen it. Vader/Dustin COTC is one of the best Vader matches ever, and Arn/Dustin from Saturday Night is PHENOMENAL. Funnyfaces turned me on to those and I can't praise them enough.
> 
> I know you're not a Macho Fan (how dare you for that) but his match with DiBiase in I believe 1988, in a big outdoor venue, is BAD ASS. Also, Steamboat/Jake Roberts had some tremendous matches in the WWE in the mid-late 80s


Ive actually changed my stance on Macho tbh, Ive gone back to loving his work promo and in ring, Yea ive see those Savage/Dibiase, flawless stuff

Will probably get into some Arn stuff, and that Spring Stampede match Cody was talking about. May watch abit Hitman stuff as well, also wanted to watch bryan/kane from monday as I wasnt paying attention that much


So much wrestling soo little time  ( essays needs to be done as well)


Edit: Smitty has the 2nd best sig on this forum


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Let's play a game. MOTN of every WM you've watched. 

WM 10. Owen vs Bret ****3/4
WM 13. Austin vs Bret. *****
WM 14. Kane vs Taker. ****1/4
WM 15. Austin vs Rock. ***1/2
WM 16. E&C/Hardys/ Dudleys. ***1/2
WM 17. Austin vs Rock. ****1/2
WM 18. Hogan vs Rock. ***1/4
WM 19. HBK vs Jericho. ****1/2
WM 20. Benoit/HBK/HHH. *****

WM 21. MITB. ****1/2
WM 22. Edge vs Foley. ****1/4
WM 23. HBK vs Cena. ****1/2
WM 24. Edge vs Taker. ****1/2
WM 25. HBK vs Taker. *****
WM 26. HBK vs Taker. ****1/2
WM 27. HHH vs Taker. ****1/2
WM 28. Punk vs Jericho. ****1/4
WM 29. Punk vs Taker. ****1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Edit: Smitty has the 2nd best sig on this forum


What jobber has a better one :kobe


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> but his match with DiBiase in I believe 1988, in a big outdoor venue, is BAD ASS.


WrestleFest?

x192hp8


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Let's play a game. MOTN of every WM you've watched.
> 
> WM 10. HBK vs Razor. ****
> WM 13. Austin vs Bret. *****
> ...


WM 1: Hogan and Mr t vs Piper and Orndorff
WM 3: Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage 
WM 4: Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase 
WM 5: Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan 
WM 6: Hulk Hogan vs the Ultimate Warrior 
WM 10: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart 
WM 11: Diesel vs Shawn Michaels 
WM 12: Diesel vs The Undertaker 
WM 13: Austin vs Bret Hart 
WM 14: Kane vs The Undertaker 
WM 15: The Rock vs Steve Austin 
WM 17: The Undertaker vs HHH 
WM 18: Ric Flair vs Undertaker 

WM 19: Steve Austin vs The Rock 
WM 20: Chris Benoit vs HBK vs HHH 
WM 21: TLC 
WM 22: Edge vs Mick Foley 
WM 23: Batista vs the undertaker 
WM 24: Edge vs The Undertaker 
WM 25: HBK vs The Undertaker 
WM 26: HBK vs The Undertaker 
WM 27: Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio 
WM 28: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho 
WM 29: CM Punk vs The Undertaker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Let's play a game. MOTN of every WM you've watched.
> 
> WM 10. HBK vs Razor. ****
> WM 13. Austin vs Bret. *****
> ...


WM 1 David Sammartino Vs Brutus Beefcake - ***
WM 2 The British Bulldogs Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - *** lmao BRUTUS with MOTN for 2 WM's in a row :lmao)
WM 3 Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat - ****1/4
WM 4 Rick Rude Vs Jake Roberts - ***1/4
WM 5 Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2
WM 6 Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4
WM 7 Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2
WM 8 Bret Hart Vs Rowdy Roddy Piper - ***3/4
WM 9 The Steiner Brothers Vs The Head Shrinkers - ***1/2
WM 10 Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - ****3/4
WM 11 Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2
WM 12 The Undertaker Vs Diesel - ***3/4
WM 13 Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - *****
WM 14 The Undertaker Vs Kane - ****
WM 15 Shane McMahon Vs X-Pac - **1/2
WM 16 The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4
WM 17 The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2
WM 18 The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4
WM 19 The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2
WM 20 Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4
WM 21 Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2
WM 22 Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2
WM 23 The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2
WM 24 The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2
WM 25 The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - *****
WM 26 The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - *****
WM 27 The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4
WM 28 The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4
WM 29 The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I kind of want the network on my PC now so I can search TAKA Michinoku.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just search YouTube .

NOW GO WATCH AND TALK ABOUT 5 TAKA MATCHES YOU CUNT. I'm watching Show/Sheamus HIAC.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*No mercy 2004 review 

Match #1: Luther Reigns vs Eddie Guerrero *

I debated for a bit whether or not I was going to watch this, I did for Eddie alone of course. Eddie gets an awesome pop that only the goat truly deserves, too bad hes facing fucking Luther Reigns. I was putting off watching this show for the longest time and this match is why, how can I get into a PPV when Luther Reigns is in the opening match? Reigns tries to be all fast and shit but now hes gassed almost as bad as Batista was on Sunday, key word is almost of course. Eddie is carrying the fuck out of this match, loving his selling. Was Luther supposed to be like a guy they were going to give a monster push to in the future? Because if so, thank god he didn't work out, cannot imagine how bad the product would be if Luther Reigns was WWE champion :|. So this match sucked pretty hard, it wasn't a dud or anything that bad, but considering the GOAT is in it I am sad Cant say I'm surprised though. Also this was given about 10 minutes too much time, should have been an Eddie squash . *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #2: Spike Dudley vs Nunzio *

This should be fun, I’m sure it will be kept short, as the real CW match is up next :mark:. Spike as a heel was just...weird. I mean, he was apparently the leader of the Dudley boyz. So I am supposed to believe that this 100 pound scrawny kid is leading these two massive guys just reeks with bullshit. But this could be good or bad, both of these guys are up and down in terms of consistency with ring work. The CW division was dead by this point anyway. The last time anyone gave a shit about the CW title was when Matt Hardy and Rey Mysterio were GOATing on Smackdown in 2003. Anyway I dont want to go into a ramble about SD 2003 so back to this match, its been entertaining so far I guess. Seems a bit flat and Bubba Ray and Devon at ringside is unwanted for me, I have been sour on them ever since they somehow had a bad match with the fucking Undertaker at the GAB. Anyway this match was OK but seemed like filler just to get the CW title match on the card. Spike wins via interference, nothing overly stunning and short just as I predicted. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5 

Match #3: Billy Kidman vs Paul London 
*
:moyes1 

I heard this match is awesome, and I love a good CW bout, so pretty pumped for this. So after watching the video package I have no idea who the heel and faces are, but thats probably because of my own incompetance rather than anything else. London is working pretty stiff early on, especially for a guy known basically for doing spots. London is controlling on, but I do like both these guys. London does a BACKFLIP off the top rope :mark: this match is awesome so far, exactly my kind of match too, good wrestling mixed with some awesome spots, and people wonder why I like MITB matches so much. So now Kidman is controlling and my mind races back to Backlash 2002 where Tajiri and Kidman pulled off a :mark: worthy match, one of my favorite Tajiri WWE matches. This match has so many :mark: moments right now, both guys are doing well, this will probably be MOTN then, unless JBL/Taker surprises me. The shooting star press was :mark: as well, big fan of that move, isn't that what Morrison did? anyway London Trying to do the Shooting star press but then Kidman countered it, I marked. Kidman then wins it, pretty awesome match. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4 

Match #4: Kenzo Suzuki and Renee Dupree vs Rey Mysterio and Rob Van Dam*

God damn the team of Dupree and Suzuki is just a horrible team, and I thought him teaming with Conway was a bad team, nothing could have prepared for this horror. But apparently this match is good somehow, expacting Mysterio and maybe RVD to carry the fuck out of this. RVD taunts Dupree early on, YAWN lets get on with this plz. RVD and Dupree try to do random flips to look cool, get Rey Rey in here already, I've seen enough RVD for now, dont know how I used to be a mark for him tbh. Rey gets tagged in :mark: but so does Suzuki, LOL at how bad this jobbers match at the GAB was with Billy Gunn, WOAT match of 2004 quality :lol. Fun match early on, mainly cool flips and stuff by RVD and Rey, so yeah this is kind of a carryjob, but I would say Dupree is somewhat holding his own here, Suzuki is a different story :lmao. Every time this fucker is in control I nearly fall asleep. a 619 chant begins and Mysterio isn't even in the match right now :lmao. Pretty fun match overall, nothing AMAZING but still enjoyable, and it is for sure the #2 MOTN. Everybody but Suzuki looked really good in this. ***1/4

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #5: The Big Show vs Kurt Angle 
*
Pretty excited for this, mainly because I LOVE the Armageddon 2002 match, much better than the shite WHC match from that show . The video package for this match was way too long, good thing I skipped it :lol. Show called Angle a son of a bitch before the match, very salty language, that fucking offends me WWE, the Cunts. Did I mention I really like Big Show from like 2000-2005? I dont know why but he was a really good big man wrestler back then, his second run has been nothing but shite for the most part though 8*D. LOL at Angle being counted out and then Teddy Long saying NAH LETS FORGET THE RULES YOU WAIT JUST A MINUTE :lmao. Why was Teddy Long always restarting matches when he was GM? My mind goes back to Breaking point and TLC in 2009, LOL at the bad finishes he made. OK back to this match, its OK so far, Angle hasn't moon saulted off a cage yet, so thats a bonus I guess. :mark: at how well show sells submission holds, AHHH AHHH. He was in the ankle lock for like a fucking minute, thats just too long, better than HBK/Angle at WM 21 then, that submission hold was like an hour long 8*D. So this was a pretty standard match but I still enjoyed it. It wasn't amazing of course but it could have been far worse, but their Armageddon 02 match is still a million times better, no surprise of course. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #6: John Cena vs Booker T *

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #7: The Dudley Boyz and Dawn Marie vs Rico, Charlie Haas, and Miss Jackie *

This looks horrible, I do not like ANY of these guys, and it seems like complete filler so I might as well watch it, though I am kind of ready for JBL and Taker TBH. Devon starts with Haas, I thought I liked Charlie Haas until he left Team Angle, then I realized hes OK at best, doesn't help when he is tagging with this fucking clown. Dawn Marie shows some legit ass :moyes1, remember that storyline when she like married Torrie Wilsons dad? that was such a strange angle :lmao. I'm tempted just to skip over any time Rico has in the ring, this guy is such an ugly fucker with like glitter in his hair, what was his gimmick? Whatever it was it was stupid as shit. Haas is the really good worker in this match, hes doing basically all the work :lol. So this ended out being not too horrible even though the Dudley Boyz were stale as shit around this time, they left for TNA soon after thankfully. Anyway average match is average. **1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #8: JBL vs The Undertaker *

Well this should be pretty good, even if Taker should have won the title here, but hopefully this match is good. Match starts out pretty slowly, not what I expected. IIRC reviews on this match are up and down, some think its better than SS, but some think its a lot worse, hope I am the former but its just OK so far, I would say equel to the SS match. So I now just realized this isn't a normal match, but basically a stretcher match but instead of a stretcher its a Hearse. Pretty fun brawl so far, albeit a bit slow. What was the reaction back in 2004 to this midcard bum suddenly becoming WWE champion, must be positive because of those 2 awesome matches he had with Eddie. So after the first few minutes of this match being a little boring this has picked it up. It is a little slow worked for my liking but I can work around that flaw and see the match for the fun brawl it is. This was about the same as SS IMO, cannot be arsed to go look at my SS 04 review though. The ending was fucking Heidenreich was weird as hell and stupid, but screwjobs were JBL's gimmick in 04 so its no surprise that Taker got screwed. Decent match, but nothing more. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 11.5 

Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood (12)
5: No mercy(11.5)
6: Summerslam (11.5)
7: Unforgiven (10) 
8: Judgment day (9.5) 
9: Vengeance (8.5)
10: Royal Rumble (8)
11: The Bash (7)
*​


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finished "Jericho in 1999". It's interesting how like every second match back then had a DQ finish (or some other fuckery).

Had like a few interesting matches on Smackdown on RAW but most of it was just garbage. Same with his PPV matches, unfortunately. Unforgiven against X-Pac was boring, Rebellion against Road Dogg was quite good, Survivor Series against Chyna was bad, Armageddon against Chyna was better but still rather average (their match @ Smackdown at the end of the year was probably their best one). 

Oh yea, Curtis Hughes sucked, can't believe they actually wasted a month on him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Most of Jericho's early work in WWF was disgusting. I watched the match vs. The Rock after he trashed it in his book and it physically hurt me to watch. :jericho4


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MOTN of every Mania I've seen in full:

WM 13: Austin vs. Bret
WM 14: Kane vs. Taker
WM 15: Austin vs. Rock (haven't seen this Mania in a while)
WM 16: E&C vs. Hardys vs. Dudleys
WM 17: Austin vs. Rock
WM 18: Undertaker vs. Flair
WM 19: Austin vs. Rock
WM 20: Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH
WM 21: MITB (but I still like Angle vs. Michaels damn it)
WM 22: Edge vs. Foley
WM 23: Batista vs. Taker
WM 24: Edge vs. Taker
WM 25: HBK vs. Taker
WM 26: HBK vs. Taker (DAT TAKER)
WM 27: HHH vs. Taker
WM 28: Punk vs. Jericho
WM 29: Punk vs. Taker
WM30: ORTON vs. BATISTA :hhh2 :vince


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

From the mind of somebody who did a Wrestlemania count-up last year .


Wrestlemania 1 - Hulk Hogan/Mr.T Vs Roddy Piper/Paul Orndorff ~ ****

Wrestlemania II - Hulk Hogan Vs King Kong Bundy ~ *** 1/4*

Wrestlemania III - Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat ~ ***** 1/4*

Wrestlemania IV - Jake Roberts Vs Rick Rude ~ *** 3/4*

Wrestlemania V - Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage ~ **** 1/2*

Wrestlemania VI - Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior ~ ***** 1/4*

Wrestlemania VII - Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior ~ ***** 1/4*

Wrestlemania VIII - Ric Flair Vs Randy Savage ~ ***** 1/2*

Wrestlemania IX - The Steiners Vs The Headshrinkers ~ **** 1/4*

Wrestlemania X - Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart ~ *******

Wrestlemania XI - Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels ~ *****

Wrestlemania XII - The Undertaker Vs Diesel ~ **** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XIII - Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin ~ *******

Wrestlemania XIV - The Undertaker Vs Kane ~ **** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XV - Steve Austin Vs The Rock ~ *** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XVI - Edge & Christian Vs The Dudleyz Vs The Hardyz ~ **** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XVII - The Rock vs Steve Austin ~ ***** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XVIII - The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair ~ ******

Wrestlemania XIX - The Rock Vs Steve Austin ~ ***** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XX - Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit ~ ***** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXI - Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho Vs Edge Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Christian ~ ***** 1/4*

Wrestlemania XXII - Triple H vs John Cena ~ ***** 1/4*

Wrestlemania XXIII - Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena ~ ***** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXIV - The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather ~ **** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXV - Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker ~ ***** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXVI - Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker ~ ***** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXVII - Triple H Vs The Undertaker ~ ***** 3/4*

Wrestlemania XXVIII - CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho ~ ***** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XXIX - CM Punk Vs The Undertaker ~ ***** 1/2*

Wrestlemania XXX - Batista Vs Randy Orton ~ **********

Wait, something doesn't seem right.

rton2


EDIT: GOD DAMN IT SOMEBODY MADE THE FUCKING ORTON VERSUS BATISTA JOKE BEFORE ME .


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> EDIT: GOD DAMN IT SOMEBODY MADE THE FUCKING ORTON VERSUS BATISTA JOKE BEFORE ME .


DEAL WITH IT :batista2

I will say that if Orton vs. Batista is anything above **, I'll be absolutely shocked. And this is from someone who's really enjoyed Orton's recent work.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm more looking forward to C2D giving the match ***3/4 than I am the actual match 8*D


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Crowd shitting on a match effects me a lot so it'll be a dud in my mind


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> I'm more looking forward to C2D giving the match ***3/4 than I am the actual match 8*D


If Randal somehow manages to get the crowd on his side out of spite for Batista, then it has a bigger chance of succeeding. But even then, I highly doubt it has any chance of getting anywhere near that. A little above 3 stars is the most I could think of it reaching.

I really wanna watch some good matches right now but I just can't bring myself to watch anything knowing that I SHOULD be able to get them in HD in the WWE Network atm. :sad:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I will be rooting for Randy :lmao 

Only time EVER it seems


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Metzler's Elimination Chamber Ratings:

Goldust/Cody vs Rybaxel - **3/4
Big E vs Jack Swagger - ***
NAO vs The Usos - **1/4
Titus O'Neil vs Darren Young - *
The Wyatts vs The Shield - ****1/4
AJ Lee vs Cameron - -*
Batista vs Alberto Del Rio - 1/2*
WWEWHC Elimination Chamber - ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be rooting for TIME. "Yes, come on time, end! End! Yes!!!! It's over!!! time is up!!! :mark:"


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

JY57 said:


> AJ Lee vs Cameron - *-**


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Think the Wyatt/Shield match deserved a 4 1/2 Stars tbh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's old news that Meltzer is BURNT.

Conventional wisdom says root for nobody, as rooting for anybody or caring about it at all would be giving the WWE too much credit for forcing the abomination known as Batista Vs Orton on us in the first place. Thankfully the WWE would never let them close the show though, so it'll just end up like Goldberg/Lesnar .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If Randal somehow manages to get the crowd on his side out of spite for Batista, then it has a bigger chance of succeeding. But even then, I highly doubt it has any chance of getting anywhere near that. A little above 3 stars is the most I could think of it reaching.
> 
> I really wanna watch some good matches right now but I just can't bring myself to watch anything knowing that I SHOULD be able to get them in HD in the WWE Network atm. :sad:


That's what you get for living in Sweden 

I've been enjoying Randall lately, I really enjoyed his performance in the Chamber. He came out, gave everyone the weakest looking knees I've ever seen, posed, then did that bug eyed routing and shut himself back in his pod :lmao. That was exactly what his heel character should have been doing these past 6 months, not being Triple H's whipping boy and not giving a shit in the ring. From December on I really don't have any gripes. 

I'm watching Fall Brawl Regal/Steamboat in HD for the first time :mark: Fuck this dead ass crowd though. It disgusts me when matches like Regal/Steamboat and Regal/Finlay Uncensored get ZERO reaction despite being all time classics. These Southerns have no idea how good they had it in the early 90s compared to us northerns watching the WWF product.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> If Randal somehow manages to get the crowd on his side out of spite for Batista, then it has a bigger chance of succeeding. But even then, I highly doubt it has any chance of getting anywhere near that. A little above 3 stars is the most I could think of it reaching.


Don't worry man. Punk will swoop in and save the day and bring it into DAT **** range expectation. If we're lucky


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fuck a network. Pulled out the old DVDs, and finally watched most of the *Rock/Mankind series*:


*Survivor Series 1998* - Actually I watched this weeks ago, and don't remember my thoughts on the match, other than that I liked it. I think I had it in the *** 1/4 range.

*RAW 1/4/99* - Not much of a match. Moreso remembered for that iconic Austin entrance with that huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge pop. Fun to watch for that reason alone.

*Royal Rumble 1999 [I Quit Match]* - Lots of fun. I just think that Rock's incredible as a performer, so when he's on, it's a joy to watch. LOL at the table botch. Kind of hard to watch those head shots with the chair. I knew they were coming, but even then it still makes me cringe. Just sucks 'cause we know the kind of damage that causes. It's insane. ****.

*St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 [Last Man Standing]* - Basically the same as above. Wish I could me more articulate, but I don't have much specific to say other than that I had a fun time watching the whole series, and it breezed right by. The two ambulances right next to each other made me LOL. I was expecting some shenanigans. ****.

*RAW 1/15/99 [Ladder Match]* - To be determined tomorrow...


Curious how those who have seen these matches would rate them?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Fuck a network. Pulled out the old DVDs, and finally watched most of the *Rock/Mankind series*:
> 
> 
> *Survivor Series 1998* - Actually I watched this weeks ago, and don't remember my thoughts on the match, other than that I liked it. I think I had it in the *** 1/4 range.
> ...



Full disclosure if it wasn't already obvious from my username, I'm a Foley mark 

SVS 1998: ***1/2
Raw: ***1/2
Royal Rumble: ****1/2
St. Valentines Day: ****1/4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's all about that HALF TIME HEAT match :rock


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Full disclosure if it wasn't already obvious from my username, I'm a Foley mark
> 
> SVS 1998: ***1/2
> Raw: ***1/2
> ...


Yeah, actually I think I might have had the RR match at **** 1/4. Should have probably been written as **** - **** 1/4.



Oliver-94 said:


> It's all about that HALF TIME HEAT match :rock


I vaguely recall watching that live. Was that the empty arena one? lol. Don't remember if it was good or bad. I imagine it was at least entertaining with Rock talking mucho junk the whole time? Just a guess.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, actually I think I might have had the RR match at **** 1/4. Should have probably been written as **** - **** 1/4.
> 
> 
> I vaguely recall watching that live. Was that the empty arena one? lol. Don't remember if it was good or bad. I imagine it was at least entertaining with Rock talking mucho junk the whole time? Just a guess.


 Yeah, the empty arena one. An entertaining and fun match for sure. The moment where Rock speaks on the phone in the office never gets old.:lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Halftime Heat match is amazing. If only everything from the Attitude Era was that fulfilling.

Finally got around to watching Disc One of the Saturday Night's Main Event collection. One word: FUN. I could use more, but eh. It's spectacular. Savage vs Honky Tonk Man :mark:

I should try this WM MOTN project atm.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@ rep: Wish I could remember more of my thoughts about SvS 98. Don't know why I'm so hazy about it. But yeah, I enjoyed it, and I remember thinking that it was better than I had anticipated it being, for whatever reason.

Liked the ending too, especially when I saw the package after when Rock was like "you think I never forgot those 'die Rocky die' chants?" LOL.

I totally agree with you. The Foley storyline was the Bryan storyline done right, from what I can tell. Foley did come off as super sympathetic, especially at the end of SvS. Totally harmless guy, just getting shat upon.

One thing that I came away with from this series was that I forgot how great of a mean asshole Rocky could be. I mean, he was getting real heat, by being a totally, unapologetic, relentless asshole toward Foley. That in turn made Foley an even more rootable face.

I mean to get the whole crowd to _genuinely_ boo you and root hardcore for the other guy, even when you are charismatic & funny, I think is a testament to how well this storyline was done, and how great Rock's asshole performance was, _and_ how great Foley was at playing the harmless guy who's just here for his dream.

I just think that everything came together, and their chemistry was great too.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Yeah, the empty arena one. An entertaining and fun match for sure. The moment where Rock speaks on the phone in the office never gets old.:lol





HayleySabin said:


> Halftime Heat match is amazing. If only everything from the Attitude Era was that fulfilling.


Alright, I'm convinced. I will be watching this either tonight or tomorrow! (Y)




> Finally got around to watching Disc One of the Saturday Night's Main Event collection. One word: FUN. I could use more, but eh. It's spectacular. Savage vs Honky Tonk Man :mark


Yeah, that whole set was fun. Don't remember which disc it's on, but would be curious to hear your thoughts on Perfect vs. Tito Santana.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thoughts on Terry Taylor as a worker ?


Also any recs on great Bret stuff, that isnt the usually stuff ( scsa, owen etc ) ? I watch most of the stuff you recommended earlier and just excellent


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Thoughts on Terry Taylor as a worker ?
> 
> 
> Also any recs on great Bret stuff, that isnt the usually stuff ( scsa, owen etc ) ? I watch most of the stuff you recommended earlier and just excellent


I remember thinking that he was one of the better WWE workers as a kid, even with the shitty Red Rooster gimmick. The people more knowledgeable about his past will tell you more. I do remember reading that he was viewed kind of like Curt Hennig before he got to WWE, in terms of skill level (different styles though).

Who were you referring to in that last line? I wanna see what was recommended.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> Alright, I'm convinced. I will be watching this either tonight or tomorrow!


You have never seen it?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> You have never seen it?


This:


> I vaguely recall watching that live. Was that the empty arena one? lol. Don't remember if it was good or bad. I imagine it was at least entertaining with Rock talking mucho junk the whole time? Just a guess.


Saw it when I was younger in real-time. Don't have much memory of it beyond it being in an empty arena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Alright, I'm convinced. I will be watching this either tonight or tomorrow! (Y)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that whole set was fun. Don't remember which disc it's on, but would be curious to hear your thoughts on Perfect vs. Tito Santana.


It's a Disc Three match. Smack dab in the 90's section. I'll possibly watch more later or tomorrow. Be sure to give some bits on the match after I check it out.

---------

Ok, WM MOTN list (a few are a blur):

WM - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff

WM 2 - Terry Funk & Hoss Funk vs Tito Santana & Junkyard Dog

WM 3 - Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat

WM 4 - I have no clue.

WM 5 - Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage & The Rockers vs Twin Towers **TIE**

WM 6 - Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior

WM 7 - Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior _(opener OWNS a ton too, no denying, but damn this match is killer)_

WM 8 - Randy Savage vs Ric Flair

WM 9 - idr; it's probably the Steiners vs Headshrinkers, but I want to pick Doink vs Crush just b/c of the ******* finish. DOINK.

WM 10 - Bret Hart vs Owen Hart

WM 11 - The Undertaker vs King Kong Bundy

WM 12 - Roddy Piper vs Goldust

WM 13 - Legion of Doom & Ahmad Johnson vs Faarooq, Crush, & Savio Vega _(think the WM 10 scenario where the ladder match is obviously excellent, but I have a preference. Replace that w/the obviously phenomenal and perfect Submission match here. Just happen to have a bigger love for the CHICAGO STREET FIGHT, man.)_

WM 14 - The Undertaker vs Kane

WM 15 - Al Snow vs Bob Holly vs Billy Gunn

WM 16 - Edge & Christian vs The Hardy Boys vs The Dudleys

WM 17 - Gosh, not sure. Probably Austin vs Rock, even though the last time I watched I wasn't blown away.

WM 18 - The Undertaker vs Ric Flair

WM 19 - Steve Austin vs The Rock

WM 20 - Mick Foley & The Rock vs Ric Flair, Randy Orton, & Batista

WM 21 - The Undertaker vs Randy Orton & Money in the Bank **TIE**

WM 22 - Mick Foley vs Edge

WM 23 - The Undertaker vs Batista

WM 24 - The Undertaker vs Edge

WM 25 - The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels

WM 26 - CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio

WM 27 - Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio

WM 28 - CM Punk vs Chris Jericho

WM 29 - The Undertaker vs CM Punk


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> WM 20 - Mick Foley & The Rock vs Ric Flair, Randy Orton, & Batista


This is interesting. Not just because of my markness, but just because.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome match. Still enjoy the triple threat plenty, but I've always known where my favorite match has been. A lot of choices were chalk full of some "close calls".


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually remember liking that match


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WM MOTN list

Don't have preferences on certain Mania's yet.

WM 5: Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage
WM 6: Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior
WM 7: Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior
WM 8: Randy Savage vs Ric Flair
WM 9: Hulk Hogan/Brutus Beefcake vs I.R.S./Ted Dibiase
WM 10: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart
WM 13: Stone Cold vs Bret Hart
WM 14: Kane vs The Undertaker
WM 15: Stone Cold vs The Rock
WM 16: Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys
WM 17: Stone Cold vs The Rock
WM 18: The Rock vs Hulk Hogan
WM 19: Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels
WM 20: Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H
WM 21: Edge vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Beniot
WM 22: Edge vs Mick Foley
WM 23: Batista vs The Undertaker
WM 24: Edge vs The Undertaker
WM 25: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker
WM 26: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker
WM 27: Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio
WM 28: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho
WM 29: CM Punk vs The Undertaker


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hate the Evolution tag at WM 20, thank fuck Foley came back for BL and got a top flight match out of Orton


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> @ rep: Wish I could remember more of my thoughts about SvS 98. Don't know why I'm so hazy about it. But yeah, I enjoyed it, and I remember thinking that it was better than I had anticipated it being, for whatever reason.
> 
> Liked the ending too, especially when I saw the package after when Rock was like "you think I never forgot those 'die Rocky die' chants?" LOL.
> 
> ...


 Agree with all of that. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stop listening to Cal, please.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That WM 20 handicap match is excellent, I was even torn to choose Jericho/Christian.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. I knew it was the handicap match though. Surprised this is the one that's caused the most discussion, tbhayley. 8*D


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Same here. I knew it was the handicap match though. Surprised this is the one that's caused the most discussion, tbhayley. 8*D


WM 26 shocked me honestly :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Since all the cool kids are doing it :

Mania MOTN

3 : savage/steamboat

7 : savage/warrior

8 : savage/flair

10 :Michaels/Razor

11 :Michaels/ Nash

12 :Nash / Taker

13 Hart/Austin

14 Michaels/Austin

17 Scsa/Rock

18 flair/taker

19: Rock/Austin

20: Triple Threat

21: Orton/Taker

22: Edge/Foley

23: Michaels/Cena

24: Michaels/Flair

25: Michaels/Taker

26: Michaels/Taker

27: Rhodes/Mysterio

28: Taker/HHH

29: Punk/Taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's basically WM 25-lite. I've said that plenty. Still real good though & live it was probably the most jacked I ever was watching a match. Punk vs Mysterio rules everything though. That good when not given too much in abundance to work? I love it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It's basically WM 25-lite. I've said that plenty. Still real good though & live it was probably the most jacked I ever was watching a match. Punk vs Mysterio rules everything though. That good when not given too much in abundance to work? I love it.


Well you must clearly be an idiot to not go the obvious route 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont have HBK/Taker WM 26 at 5 stars anymore, but its still at ****3/4 and IDK if there is even any other ****+ matches on that show, MAYBE the Rey/Punk match but I would probably only go ***3/4 for that tbh


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Big fan of mania 26, love cena/batista, hhh/sheamus, punk/rey and the main event.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's a Disc Three match. Smack dab in the 90's section. I'll possibly watch more later or tomorrow. Be sure to give some bits on the match after I check it out.
> 
> ---------
> 
> WM 17 - Gosh, not sure. Probably Austin vs Rock, even though the last time I watched I wasn't blown away.



The TLC with the Hardys vs Dudleys vs E&C came very close for me. Actually I rate it the same as Austin/Rock at ****1/2, but went with Austin/Rock simply off importance.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

best mania ever is savage vs warrior tho


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC II is a fun spectacle, but it's nothing mega for me as it honestly recycles so much from the original. They just kind of doubled up the moments b/c it's WM.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Regarding WM 26, gosh was Edge vs Jericho disappointing. Wasn't expecting that, but no chemistry at all. 

**1/2. Expected a lot better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> TLC II is a fun spectacle, but it's nothing mega for me as it honestly recycles so much from the original. They just kind of doubled up the moments b/c it's WM.


Should your sig say 2/24/14 or nah?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, nah. It's not for Undertaker, mate.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's for something bigger then :taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's even. We're crossing into personal favorites across the board territory.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

There's nothing bigger than the Undertaker 

Except Batista of course 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching this bret/steamboat match

1) odd seeing Bret w/o Pink and Black
2) Good Lord Ricky was JACKED in this, never seen him this big


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It's even. We're crossing into personal favorites across the board territory.


Well that just let's people know how huge it is


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I was going to post my question in this thread but thought it would get buried. Can you experts please post in the thread I created about best brawls?

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1144769-wwe-wcw-best-brawls.html#post30725505

It was inspired after watching Shield vs Hell No/Ryback @ TLC 2012 again. Want more like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Done. 

Glad I wasn't stupid enough in snubbing the Hardy vs Edge series in there. Really, that stuff was gold. I could have been more specific on brawls from the 80's though. I forgot Tully vs Magnum & Valentine vs Piper, for example. FUCK.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Funk GAB 89 is most certainly a brawl. And it was a really cool story of Flair being out of his element. Did Terry Funk ever beat Flair?

BUNKHOUSE BUCK VS. DUSTIN RHODES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not that I recall. He only beat the piss out of Flair after every battle thus keeping it going.

I feel the urge to watch Buck vs Rhodes on the daily. At this rate it's smelling like a top ten WCW match. I really wished I did that list.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HBK vs Vince is MOTN for Wrestlemania 22 (imo), such a fun match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Close second by me. Love it. Actually a Shawn Michaels match from WM worthy of praising. Yet, it doesn't get much due. Go figure.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Planning on watching some DUBYA C DUBYA this weekend on the network. Any suggestions (other than Beach Blast 92 and Spring Stampede 94)?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spring Stampede 1999
Great American Bash 1989
Wrestlewar 1992
Starrcade 1995
Halloween Havoc 1997
Souled Out 1998
Superbrawl 1993 (avoid Muta/Windham though. Windham sucked in the 90s and Muta didn't care at all in this match)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Slamboree 1997 plz.

Also watch everything from 1994.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't watch any Hogan era 1994 PPVs unless if you're a masochist. Hogan-Flair and Hogan-Vader. Yuck! Slamboree 1997 is a good call.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Vader didn't happen till 1995. You won't win the fight on Hogan vs Flair. You should know this by now. Bash at the Beach match owns.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only thing I liked about the Hogan/Flair BatB match was Hogan using an armbar. Other than that, I found it really boring and a typical Hogan match. The Clash match was their best work, but the match dragged, especially since it was nothing more than a feud advancer. Halloween Havoc 1994 somehow made a bigger insult to the cage match stipulation than their First Blood Cage Match in 1999. And then Hogan/Butcher was a failure. Then Hogan basically had the 1995 equivalent of Punk/Rock against the greatest big man ever. Yeah, Hogan sucked. Except for the match with Arn and the match with DDP. And a tag match with Savage against Arn and Flair.

EDIT: bah, I just rewatched Hogan/Flair BatB and it's still as bad as I remember it. I don't see the fun in it at all. Flair barely did anything impressive. He spent the first third of the match reusing that "on your knees" spot. No different from a generic Hogan match from a house show except the ending was even stupider than I remember it being with Sherri acting like a dumbass and Flair looking really weak. I think people were just impressed that Hogan was able to wrestle, but he didn't wrestle well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Hogan is underrated for a large portion of his career. It's like too many people expected him to work like Savage or Steamboat & that was naive. For what he produced, he was good. Hollywood stuff there is a ton of shit. No denying that. But for what he did actually during his prime and the tail end, it deserves praise. First Vader match from SuperBrawl is good. Dig nearly every Flair match before the new millennium. vs the Butcher is crap, but that's Beefcake. Not like any of this is a negative reflection on how awesome WCW circa 1994 was to begin w/. :hayley1

I'd actually wager the number of fun Hogan matches vs a lot of other guys. Hogan has the odds on his side.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe I just don't get it, but guys like Hogan and Lawler who always seem to win in that same no selling fashion just don't interest me. I don't know what it is about Undertaker that makes me overlook that for him, but I just prefer my faces vulnerable. I only got that impression from Hogan in 2002.

The Superbrawl Hogan/Vader match was just two guys no selling for fifteen minutes until a very shitty ending occurs. Well below the Sarkodie-Mensah scale.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I've grown to really appreciate Hogan as a performer as time as gone on. I prefer techincal matches and yes, Hogan did the same style match a ton but his in ring charisma is unmatched and when he's on, He really showcases the spectacle of wrestling.

I was watching his anthology on Netflix after they announced his return. The match with Bockwinkel on there is really good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not quite "no selling" as it's not put within that realm. Most of the time Hogan got beat up, but nothing ever specifically targeted for him to completely "sell" in the proper context to where it makes a heels work look like shit. It was just Hogan's larger than life adrenaline leading him to capture the win. More importantly, that's what the fans wanted to see for so long. So the company gave it to them. Just when it looked Hogan was down & out, he made the miracle comeback to win. Off putting for some? Sure. Not everyone is going to be happy. But look at it like Cena these days. Only Cena has more ability behind him that Hogan, per-say. Same gist. There will always be the detractors.

Hogan vs Vader weren't no selling. They were beating two huge MEN trying to fuck each other up & negating what one another did to each other out of trying to accomplish that. What's not to like there? :hayley1


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I enjoyed watching that SuperBrawl match.

Now if you wanna shit on a Hogan/Vader match you should shit all over the Uncensored match :|


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Remember that video I posted few pages back? Here's the gif version:










:banderas


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

^that's just too damn good :mark: 

Is NXT Arrival ONLY available on the network? I hope there'll be streams.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starrcade 1983
Starting at the beginning of the WWE Network 

*The Masked Assassins vs. Rufus "Freight Train" Jones and Bugsy McGraw*
This honestly reminded me of $5 Wrestling. Like 3 of the guys just don't look like they belong in a wrestling ring and I have pretty relaxed standards. And the stuff they did just didn't look very good. The Assassins worked as heels but they just got their asses kicked the entire time. I'm fairly certain that the finish was a Assassin went into the ring that wasn't legal and he rolled up McGraw and scored a pin. I'm struggling to come up with anything positive to say. The best I can come up with is that the crowd seemed to love the face team.
*1/2**

*Johnny Weaver and Scott McGee vs. Kevin Sullivan and Mark Lewin w/Gary Hart*
How is it that Kevin Sullivan looks old in 1983? Anyway this was an improvement but it really made me realize how limited guys would be at this time because there just wasn't much too it. The heels were in control and it seemed like they were building up for the hot tag but we got a very mild comeback and then the heels won cleanly without anything exciting happen. I liked the quick tags between Sullivan and his partner as it made it seem like they were a strong team. The faces were entirely forgettable. When the mach ended I couldn't have told you which one was Weaver and which one was McGee. I won't say it was a bad match but it was overly basic.
**1/2*

*Carlos Colon vs. Abdullah The Butcher w/Hugo Savonovich *
For the sake of my enjoyment I will just assume that at this point The Butcher was free of all disease when he was bleeding. This was OK I guess. I've seen them have matches in Puerto Rico and this just can't compare to that atmosphere. I mean the one match I saw was in a gym and everybody was forced to sit in the bleachers and not on the floor (probably for safety reasons). Both guys were willing to use a spike and Abby was naturally covered in blood by the end of this very short match. It was kind of fun but right when I was starting to get into it the match ended. I'm not saying it would have been great but I think they could have had a fun brawl with less restraints and a few more minutes.
**1/2*

*Dick Slater and Bob Orton Jr. vs. Mark Youngblood and Wahoo McDaniels *
This was kind of weird; Orton and Slater worked a lengthy control segment on Youngblood and then Youngblood got some offense in but for whatever reason he didn't make the tag. Then there was another control segment and he then eventually made the hot tag. It just seemed like the whole point of the match was for Youngblood to look weak and protect McDaniels. There was a lot of build and not enough payoff. I don't think this needed to be almost 15 minutes long.
****

*Mask vs. NWA TV Title*
Charlie Brown vs. Kabuki(c) w/Gary Hart 
I was actually thankful that I had streaming issues and wasn't able to see this. After sitting through an hour of a very poor undercard I didn't have it in me to watch a Jimmy Valiant match. Charlie Brown is Valiant in a mask if you were wondering. 
*NO*

_Dog Collar Match:_
*Greg Valentine vs. Roddy Piper*
I'm still a fan of Valentine. He was great here and wrestled like such a smart heel. Piper had a bad ear and Valentine made sure to target it whenever he could. Piper bladed near the ear to make it look like a serious injury and I thought it worked pretty well here. Piper's performance as a gritty, wounded, maybe a little crazy, face was also really strong. He was easy to get behind because Valentine was in control for a good chunk of the match. The one thing that I really have to criticize is the ending. I also that it was interesting that Piper would get to make his comebacks when Valentine would do something that wasn't too bright in a chain match. He lost the match by going to the second rope and he almost lost it another time when he tried to run the ropes, either action can be a problem when chained to someone. I just wish there was more of a finish. I mean we got to see Piper pounce on Valentine when he made a mistake and it was an almost animal like attack but he hit him with a few good punches and the match was over. I think this is where the match dates itself. Everything else easily stands the 31 year test of time but I was still left thinking, "That's it?" And that's a terrible feeling to have at the end of what was still a pretty great match.
****3/4 *

_NWA Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Gerry and Jack Brisco(c) vs. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood*
I thought this was very good. The Briscos were sort of heels but they really didn't heel it up very much at all. Which I was more than fine with because we got a smartly worked tag match where both teams looked pretty evenly matched. Whenever either time was in control they made quick tags and used their limited time to double team really effectively. There wasn't the whole "let's forget about making tags for the last 10 minutes" thing either which is a common problem in a lot of modern tag team wrestling. In fact this match seemed to be heavily focused on how well you could utilize those 5 seconds of double teaming. The double team moves were clearly a lot more effective and everyone played it up as that as well. It was a pretty standard match but the pacing was nice and it was a fun, smart match.
****1/4* 

_Steel Cage Match for the NWA Championship:_
*Harley Race(c) vs. Ric Flair*
I remember not liking this all that much when I had watched it before. The special ref, Gene Kiniski, was my primary complaint with the match and he really got under my skin with how heavily involved he was in the match. I can now sum this complaint up to "not getting it." I really don't like to say that on previous watches I didn't get it but I have to concede that I didn't in this case. The ref wouldn't let anyone get away with even the slightest rule infraction and it got to the point that he was getting physically involved too much for my liking. But when you look at the context of the match it makes a lot of sense. Race was ducking Flair and tried to injure him with the whole bounty storyline. The cage was in place to make sure nobody would get involved and to make sure that Race wouldn't be able to cheat. The referee taking no shit from anyone strongly reinforced this idea. You had Race and Flair locked into the ring nobody could get involved and nobody was able to bend the rules. It was an even a playing field as you could imagine. 

Race was the methodical champion and he played that role well. Flair's performance was good, not great, as the challenger. The guy is a much better champion than challenger. Race's control segments were good and I loved the moments when Flair would get in a move or two during them to show that he still had some signs of life. The match is close to being great but in the end it falls just short of that mark. For lack of a better term they needed to do a better job of transitioning between who was controlling the match. One second Race would be in control and then Flair would be in control but there wasn't a big moment or anything to signify that there was any type of change. The finish also left a lot to be desired. Overall I enjoyed it and I would say it's a very big match with a ton of historical significance but it didn't live up to its full potential.
****1/2*​


Well the last 3 matches delivered so that was a plus. The undercard was terribe though and there were honestly a lot of things about the style of match that was worked that really annoyed me. Finishes weren't built up and there was never a moment when I thought a match could end but it didn't. In fact there wasn't a moment when I ever thought a match was going to end. Most of them just seemed to end on random moves that didn't seem any more or less impressive then the stuff I had been seeing the entire match. I don't need a bunch of false finishes but I feel like I should at least expect the match to end when someone hits the move that actually ends the match. 

For the future I want to do a sort of WWF vs. WCW where I compare the shows that happened closest to each other. I can't for this one because WWF had no PPVs until 1985 so the first two Starrcades are going to have to be solo reviews.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Remember that video I posted few pages back? Here's the gif version:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:banderas :banderas


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Starrcade is going to win those WM/Starrcade comparisons until about '94. From memory, '89 is the only one that can be compared evenly until WM10.

Starrcade 85 has, imo, the greatest match ever, Starrcade '87 is covered in very enjoyable matches (Koloff/Taylor is fantassssttttiiiccc and rivals Savage/Steamboat which I dont think rly highly of anyway. p/ sure I am the only one who will ever think that). Look out for those two events.


Exploited my born again interest in wrestling to watch some Midnight Express, coming across a match I was always going to want to stumble onto when I did my failed 1990 WCW project. That never did happen. 

Until now. 

In match quality, I prefer the RnR/Mid-Ex match on 07 11 87, but this match is streets apart from any tag match I've witnessed. Southern Boys vs the Midnight Express at GAB90. Wish I did some write up for it. *****. This match convinced me to swap from the Condrey/Eaton > mentality into Eaton/Lane >. While they lack the character chemistry intangibles of Condrey/Eaton, the track record of matches that come out of Lane/Eaton is unrivaled.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll just post it in here, as I think a couple of you may/will be interested:

In my ongoing attempt to discover and try different style of pro graps, I finally decided to give the British, World of Sport style a try, having only seen a handful of matches at most (and they were only matches featuring Finlay and Johnny Saint). The first match I watched? Marty Jones vs. Dynamite Kid (hence why I'm posting in here, as I presume the majority of you are familiar with him, also because I feel a lot of regulars in this thread will enjoy Jones' work).

It was brilliant, such a fantastic introduction to the style considering I had never heard of Marty and I've never been a huge fan of Dynamite's work (his matches vs. Tiger Mask are criminally overrated). Dynamite is the big, popular, foreign star attraction whereas Marty is the hometown regular, and a clear heel/face dynamic is quickly established and it's a joy to behold. Dynamite is very vicious and aggressive, wanting the win at all costs, and Marty is exactly the same (I believe his motives were to prove he's still great as he just dropped the Mid Heavyweight title) but Marty is equally as vicious whilst keeping to the WOS rules.

Dynamite is such a fucking dick its unreal, abusing the round system, attacking after the bell goes, flying off the rope (which is illegal) and all sorts. Kid bumps like a mad man for Marty especially with some sick looking irish whips which occur at the tail end of the match.

Eventually Marty is sick of Dynamite's dickishness and forges a marvellous final round, busted nose and all, really riling up the crowd, and he takes it to Dynamite in such a fun and believeable way during the final stretch. Said Irish Whips and a beautiful crossbody are the highlights, on top of the beautifully mastered strikes that he's shown throughout, although they did seem a lot less impactful as the match went on, something I HOPE was intentional because after all, he was beaten and bruised by Dynamite for a decent amount of time, so naturally you won't be able to throw strikes as well as you would when you're fresh.

First impressions mean a lot in wrestling, and judging solely on this one performance (and I could very well be wrong, like I said - First impressions), Marty is the closest thing I've seen to a Finlay and/or a Regal that isn't a Finlay or a Regal in the sence that his strikes are fantastic looking, he bumps amazingly for his opponent and can sell punishment like very few others (in this match, his already-injured leg and later, his kidney) whilst not seeming weak or overwhelmed. Whilst Kid's offense does look good, it looks even greater by Marty's selling, and yes I do know that sounds awfully generic.

I really, really adored this and I sincerely hope Marty Jones is like this in everything I watch of his. As in... Performances like this could very will propel him in to the upper echelon of my favourite workers. This is my favourite Dynamite match ever and not just because I'm not a huge fan of his either, this was legitimately great. I'm going to watch some more Marty as a way of continuing my WOS journey, and hopefully I'll find more quality workers and equally great matches.

Some may have this preconceived misconception that the British Style is mat wrestling, hold for hold stuff with very little substance or character work and that's probably due to Michael Cole and Lawler also referring to the British/European style whenever someone like Bryan or Cesaro lock on a hammerlock and someone else reverses it, but this blows that out of the water. Such a simple heel/face dynamic that is marvelously developed from bell to bell and even as a "smark", by the end I was 110% behind the babyface, despite never hearing of him prior.





part two is on the side

Oh yeah - Jones has the best knee drop I've ever seen, ever.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED TO ALL. 

Srrynotsrry for it not being WWE related :side:


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm not too familiar with World Of Sport either, but it is something that I've been interested to giving a try for a while now. Will definitely watch that match later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not too bothered that you posted it in here, but I does believe WOOLCOCK started a WOS thread in the classic wrestling section . You should check it out for other matches to watch and shit .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think you criminally underrated the Piper/Valentine dog collar match at Starrcade 1. I wouldn't give it anything less than ****1/2, and have at times considered giving it ***** even with the finish. It's up there with Tully/Magnum and Flair/Steamboat COTC as the best NWA match ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, FLUX, check out WOOLCOCK's thread on it. I'm sure he'd love to have more people talk about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...restling-1970s-1980s-appreciation-thread.html (WOS thread)

Untouched since June of last year :lol . 'Kin hell I am shocking at sticking to a project I undertake.

I won't repeat the OP of that thread, but that's a summary of WOS and the intricacies/tropes people label about the style without much consideration. You won't get bodypart work in the sense of US wrestling, but you still get clearly defined character traits and title matches are worked with clear importance and structure to build themes, narratives and establish tension. The pacing is also typically immaculate in WOS, with the build from matwork, to strikes to rope running being exquisite.

The Marty/DK match is stellar, but be sure to watch Marty/Finlay '84 (has one of the best spots to escape a submission I've ever seen, but beware a depressing finish) and Marty/Bull Blitzer '86. Jones is an incredible worker and in my top five of WOS greats, alongside Steve Grey, Terry Rudge, Jim Breaks and Jon Cortez (still need to watch a few more hyped workers). His real asset imo is being able to shift a match believeably from 'respectful sporting contest' into a heated and tempestuous affair. American workers often rush the 'breakdown' in a face/face match, but Jones really times that tempo acceleration and allows his mood to build before exploding, and the DK is a good illustration of that.

Watch Jim Breaks/Adrian Street from '72 and Steve Grey/Clive Myers from '75 as well. Two of the best WOS matches, with Grey/Myers resembling WOS's Flair/Steamboat pairing as Myers is the international phenom, and Grey the humble and endearing local hero. Grey is a mesmerising babyface, and his famous Johnny Saint match from 1/28/80 is another feather in his cap.

One final aspect of WOS, is that whilst you do get matches which resemble exhibitions, they feel less egregious by the nature of WOS. You can watch it and marvel at the technical skill, since so many matches are built around a respectful sporting contest, as opposed to the traditional face/heel dynamic of US wrestling. That doesn't mean some of the more exhibition matches can stand alongside the story driven WOS matches, because they don't, but it's hard to come away from a WOS match with the 'what a god awful spotfest' mentality, simply because of the ethos behind the style.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Surprised that Johnny Saint isn't on that list.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He's a great worker of holds and submissions, but I'm yet to really see the depth in his work that someone like Grey, Breaks or Marty possess. I do need to watch a few more of his rugged fights, as like Jones, Saint was capable of working viciously when the occasion called for it alongside his patented submission escapes.

Alan Sarjeant is another gem if you're in love with the mat trickery of Saint btw, his escape from a crab is always excellent.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I watched WrestleMania 21 on the Network last night - not the full show, but half of it - I stopped it before the Big Show's shitty sumo match.

Still think it was a good show. Piper's Pit with Steve Austin & Carlito is still one of my highlights. :mark:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I think you criminally underrated the Piper/Valentine dog collar match at Starrcade 1. I wouldn't give it anything less than ****1/2, and have at times considered giving it ***** even with the finish. It's up there with* Tully/Magnum* and Flair/Steamboat COTC as the best NWA match ever.


Is it the Steel Cage I quit match? I just saw it, and if so, I must thank you for introducing me to a _*****_ match. So freaking perfect man, just pure perfection. Damn shame TA's career was cut short, all of his matches I've seen are great.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Eulonzo said:


> I watched WrestleMania 21 on the Network last night - not the full show, but half of it - I stopped it before the Big Show's shitty sumo match.
> 
> Still think it was a good show. Piper's Pit with Steve Austin & Carlito is still one of my highlights. :mark:


WM21 would be one of my 5 favorites (it's still close) if Rey and Eddie didn't SOMEHOW have a shitty match against each other. I love Orton vs. Undertaker, the first MITB is still the best to me, and I enjoy Angle vs. HBK :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Is it the Steel Cage I quit match? I just saw it, and if so, I must thank you for introducing me to a _*****_ match. So freaking perfect man, just pure perfection. Damn shame TA's career was cut short, all of his matches I've seen are great.



That was indeed the match I was referencing. The greatest cage match of all time, the greatest finish I think in the history of wrestling (rivaled only by Austin/Bret WM 13). The brutality of that match is completely off the charts. With good reason too. For those that don't know the back story, Magnum in real life married Tullys ex wife and was raising Tullys kid as his own, if you wonder why there was such palpable hatred in that match, look no further than the real life circumstances surrounding it. And the finish, my god, it's almost enough to make your stomach churn. Magnum baring down on Tullys face with that splintered peice of wood, he looked like he was 100% legitimately trying to take Tullys eye out.

It's been pimped numerous times on here, but if you want a match that rivals the Tully/Magnum I Quit for sheer intensity and brutality, check out the Sgt. slaughter/Iron Sheik Boot Camo match at MSG. If you enjoyed Tully/Magnum, you'll love this,


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> WM21 would be one of my 5 favorites (it's still close) if Rey and Eddie didn't SOMEHOW have a shitty match against each other. I love Orton vs. Undertaker, the first MITB is still the best to me, and I enjoy Angle vs. HBK :side:


I don't have a list of favorite WrestleManias but that one is definitely up there.

the MITB match is one of those matches where I probably know every single part of the match, even what the commentary says, same with Angle/HBK. I enjoyed Orton/Taker as well but not as much as Angle/HBK. Still not over that Chokeslam counter into an RKO, though. :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cal, how would you rate the matches in the Bret Hart/Undertaker series?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 96 - ****
SS 97 - ****1/4
ONO 97 - ****1/4


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> That was indeed the match I was referencing. The greatest cage match of all time, the greatest finish I think in the history of wrestling (rivaled only by Austin/Bret WM 13). The brutality of that match is completely off the charts. With good reason too. For those that don't know the back story, Magnum in real life married Tullys ex wife and was raising Tullys kid as his own, if you wonder why there was such palpable hatred in that match, look no further than the real life circumstances surrounding it. And the finish, my god, it's almost enough to make your stomach churn. Magnum baring down on Tullys face with that splintered peice of wood, he looked like he was 100% legitimately trying to take Tullys eye out.
> 
> It's been pimped numerous times on here, but if you want a match that rivals the Tully/Magnum I Quit for sheer intensity and brutality, check out the Sgt. slaughter/Iron Sheik Boot Camo match at MSG. If you enjoyed Tully/Magnum, you'll love this,


I didn't know the history and backstory behind it, but now that match is if possible, even better. When someone says ring psychology, this is a match you point to. I knew Magnum was going to win because my dad was telling me about him beating Tully a few days ago, but I never cared to look for it. When Blanchard gets the splinter I was thinking, _such great psychology, but there is no way he'd actually get him_. Then Magnum gets out and sticks it in. That is the biggest HOLY SHIT moment I've had possibly ever. I'm alone in my house fucking :mark:, yelling this was amazing. No offense, but matches like that and WMXIII are the quintessential examples of how hatred is portrayed.

I've heard stories about Shiek v. Slaughter in MSG, seen pictures, and if it is half as good as what I just saw, it is great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cactus I've replied with an array of matches you requested, let me know if there's anyone else specifically you're interested in and I'll try and have a mooch around and see what else pops into my noggin'.

I think you'll love Yoshiaki Fujiwara going by your Regal/Finlay appreciation. Excellent grappler/defensive wrestler with some outstanding facial expressions, great offence, impeccable seller and a real knack for building an engrossing structure with clearly defined character roles. Basically, he's an absolute treasure and it's sad not many will know of him compared to the cliche go-to puro guys.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched King of the Ring 1993 on the Network today, my first full PPV that I have viewed on the Network. Still surprised that it's the first time I see this, quite a good PPV. My ratings:

Bret/Ramon- ***1/4. Nice opener, Bret looked good out there, and I really liked the ending
Mr.Hughes/Perfect- *1/2, this rating was given only for Perfect's bumps, otherwise this was a bad match
Bigelow/Duggan- DUD, sorry this was bad, like really bad
Tatanka/Luger- **3/4, heard many bad thins about this one, but I found it entertaining. Nothing amazing, but a good enough match.
Bret/Perfect- ****1/2, can't believe that it's the first time I watch this, it was simply amazing. That ending was a nice touch too. Excellent match.
Yokozuna/Hogan- **, this was your usual Hogan match, but seeing Yokozuna win this was good. Decent match
Tag Match- *, didn't like this at all, too many guys for a 5 minute match. Pointless, and bad
HBK/Crush- **1/2
Bigelow/Bret- ***1/2. This was awesome, Bret was once again amazing here, really good match. This was definetely Bret's night, he had two great matches and an amazing one too.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I finished Breakdown & everything is quite forgetable except for Owen/Edge & Vader/Bradshaw :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I seem to remember Vader/Bradshaw being quite entertaining. Hard-hitting as shit, as one would expect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader/Bradshaw :mark:.

While I'm here... VADER/SHAMROCK :mark:.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Someone mentioned Fujiwara? That fucker had a good match in 2013, at the age of 89:


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Since today is a big day for NXT, I wanted to ask you guys: What is your favorite NXT match of all-time?

I personally can't choose between Zayn/Cesaro 2-out-of-3 falls and Regal/Hero.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Both are quite great, but I find that Regal/Hero caters to a specific interest - the more mat-based, methodical, stiff approach that not everyone finds entertaining. I love it, but I can see why others don't. Personally, I'd go with Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls. Eveything about it is great.

On the topic of NXT, (if I can get the fuckin Network to play) is there a way to DVR things, or will they at least be replaying the NXT PPV? I won't be able to watch it live, but I will definitely want to catch it later if possible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zayn/Cesaro III aka 2/3 falls
Regal/Cesaro
Regal/Hero
Zayn/Cesaro II

Only seen like 5 other NXT matches .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I seem to remember Vader/Bradshaw being quite entertaining. Hard-hitting as shit, as one would expect.


It was MOTN for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Both are quite great, but I find that Regal/Hero caters to a specific interest - the more mat-based, methodical, stiff approach that not everyone finds entertaining. I love it, but I can see why others don't. Personally, I'd go with Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls. Eveything about it is great.
> 
> On the topic of NXT, (if I can get the fuckin Network to play) is there a way to DVR things, or will they at least be replaying the NXT PPV? I won't be able to watch it live, but I will definitely want to catch it later if possible.



I think it goes into the NXT library once it airs. Not 100% sure though.

Having a pain watching myself. On my Xbox it just doesn't let me log in and on my Roku it stops every 5 mins or so. ~___~


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

NXT talk?

If we can count FCW as NXT as well (it's the same thing just a different name and bigger crowd) then I'd probably have Rollins/Ambrose III equal to (maybe JUST the tiniest bit lower) than Cesaro/Zayn as the best NXT/FCW match. Love the shit out of it, their chemistry is insane. They have 2x 15 minute matches before the 30 minute, then after that I think they may have two more matches in late 11/early 12, and all are at least great.

Top "however fucking many I want" FCW/NXT matches

1. Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 Falls
2. Rollins/Ambrose III
3. Regal/Ambrose II
4. Regal/Ambrose I
5. Regal/Hero
6. Regal/Cesaro
7. Ambrose/Sandow
8. Ohno/Harper (they had two, right? I don't know which one I'm on about but one is great)
9. Rollins/Sandow
10. (if we count NXT pro/rookie concept then Danielson/Jericho) if not then I don't know!  One of the HMs below

Sheamus/Harper, Wyatts/RegalNevilleGraves, Ohno/Cesaro (some dont like it, I do, whatever), Cesaro/Neville, Ambrose/Neville

I think I'm biased when it comes to the Rollins/Ambrose series and I think it would be unfair to put all five in the list (maybe four, memory is slightly hazy, I know they've had several triple threats as well so I may be confusing that with a singles). If I were to be biased anyway, I know all of them would definitely make it. Probably the best chemistry in the E right now tbh.

Regal owning the every time he's out there. Ambrose being utterly fantastic. Sandow having two matches that are x10000 better than his best match on the main roster. A load of fantastic stuff. There's some NXT house show stuff that interests me as well. Rhodes/Rollins had a fantastic match that would have made it, Ambrose and Punk have apparently had a match, right? There's also apparently been a Punk/Rollins vs. Ohno/Cesaro match which could be fantastic.

Rollins has GOT to be the best ever WWE developmental performer, right? I mean, I've never seen anything from WWE Developmental pre FCW bar Albright/Punk, but I can't imagine anybody putting on as many phenomenal matches as Seth. Even back in 2011, you could see the wonders a few months of WWE Developmental did for Rollins. Turned him from a good independent worker to a world class WWE worker. Might have to rewatch the Ambrose series just to remind me that there are some benefits of The Shield splitting up. If we got a similar match between Rollins and Ambrose on PPV in front of a good crowd and a proper finish, it would quite easily be a MOTYC with how both have developed.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, aside from Bryan and Cesaro, I'm honestly the most excited about Rollins and his potential as a singles babyface worker. Guy definitely has all the tools.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If we throw in FCW with NXT then you can probably have a list of around 20 matches that are genuine top tier wrestling matches. Ambrose/Rollins (all bazillion of them) series was :mark:, Ambrose/Regal matches were :mark:, Ambrose/Sandow (nice to see another mention of this btw, match rocks with both trying to out-heel each other)...

I'd love to see Regal go HEEL again one more time so we could get Regal/Zayn before Zayn gets called up (seriously, why is this guy not on the roster yet? Hoping he gets called up after WM and does something of worth).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't think Sandow will EVER have a better match than the one with Ambrose. But I have a severe hatred for the guy. I think my second favourite match of his behind the Ambrose match is vs. Londrick when he was one half of Michelle McCool's bitches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not high on his matches with Cena? I'm not either but those seem to be praised.

I do enjoy a match or two of his against SHEAMUS though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I like the Sandow/Cena match where he failed to cash in the briefcase, but that's about it. Never been a big fan of his.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't care for the guy either so yey .

These days he's facing UC on Raw pre-shows :lmao.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I finished Breakdown & everything is quite forgetable except for Owen/Edge & Vader/Bradshaw :mark:


What about the Triple Threat Steel Cage? I found that quite enjoyable when I last watched it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I prefer their match on Main Event over the cash in, but I was kind of half watching half not during the ME match and I only caught the decent bits. I haven't seen any of his matches vs. Sheamus, but it's Sheamus so I doubt it'll be BAD. 

Honestly, the guy just does nothing for me, which is funny considering he featured twice in the list I posted :side: He's one of the handful of guys on the roster that I'll skip anything of regardless of opponent or anything. If someone pimps something of his to the heavens and above, I still have to think long and hard about whether I want to watch it and usually I won't bother, whether it's a 10 minute match or 30 second interview.

I'm in a mood to bad mouth the wrestlers I dislike now, so to cheer myself up I'm going to watch the Texas ten man AKA the best TV match of the attitude era


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thought Cena/Sandow was decent but I loved the two Cena/Rhodes Bros vs Sandow/Real Americans matches. Those were great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

****1/2 where can I see this, Eva is such a ring general


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best women's match ever tbh.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> ****1/2 where can I see this, Eva is such a ring general


Dat reaction time from Aksana.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I dislike Aksana probably as much as a lot of people on this board dislike Eva Marie. Maybe it's because I find Eva Marie hot and Aksana unattractive (AND THAT VOICE UGH).

Can't wait to catch ArRival tonight :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for answering, Cal!




DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> If we throw in FCW with NXT then you can probably have a list of around 20 matches that are genuine top tier wrestling matches. Ambrose/Rollins (all bazillion of them) series was :mark:, Ambrose/Regal matches were :mark:, Ambrose/Sandow (nice to see another mention of this btw, match rocks with both trying to out-heel each other)...
> 
> I'd love to see Regal go HEEL again one more time so we could get Regal/Zayn before Zayn gets called up (seriously, why is this guy not on the roster yet? Hoping he gets called up after WM and does something of worth).


Does anyone know anyone who sells DVDs of FCW from around that time ('11/'12) or anything of Rollins in FCW at that time?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I finished Breakdown & everything is quite forgetable except for Owen/Edge & Vader/Bradshaw :mark:


Mankind/Foley/Rock is really good too IMO.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Hitman said:


> Mankind/Foley/Rock is really good too IMO.


Ah, so Mankind has fought Foley before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> SExploited my born again interest in wrestling to watch some Midnight Express, coming across a match I was always going to want to stumble onto when I did my failed 1990 WCW project. That never did happen.
> 
> Until now.
> 
> In match quality, I prefer the RnR/Mid-Ex match on 07 11 87, but this match is streets apart from any tag match I've witnessed. Southern Boys vs the Midnight Express at GAB90. Wish I did some write up for it. *****. This match convinced me to swap from the Condrey/Eaton > mentality into Eaton/Lane >. While they lack the character chemistry intangibles of Condrey/Eaton, the track record of matches that come out of Lane/Eaton is unrivaled.


We got ourselves another one. Damn near the best match ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Ah, so Mankind has fought Foley before.


fpalm Fraudulent slip  I meant Shamrock lol. Leave me alone, i'm tired.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cesaro vs Zayn tonight :moyes1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> ****1/2 where can I see this, Eva is such a ring general


Last week had Aksana vs Cameron in a classic that rivals this, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark:. Might check out a stream to watch it if I can find a decent one.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Heh, I'm actually watching the Raw after Breakdown on the Network right now. Not exactly good by any means but fuck do I love Taker's old theme music.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm just going to try HARD to avoid spoilers for it b/c I know I won't be able to see it for a day or two. Depends. Divas match is irrelevant as I don't care, but the other two matches. I don't need Zayn's big win spoiled or the fact we may/may not get a new champion tonight.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Two hour show, right? Curious if we get another match or two. Rusev plz. He interests me.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Spoiler: Arrival



The Ascension and Rusev are also going to appear.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting Taboo Tuesday 2004, should be a fun event, mainly from the opener and the cage match :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Gonna have to catch Arrival on demand because I won't be home when it airs, but I'm still excited for it. 

As far as adding matches goes, I just hope Zayn/Cesaro and Neville/BO get a decent amount of time.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think Bo/Neville can be/will be a sleeper. Mainly due to the fact it's like, the least talked about match on the show because for some strange reason, people think Paige and Emma are amazing. It's a perfect match, what Neville lacks in a distinct personality he more than makes up for in being insanely athletic and mechanically fantastic as a babyface whereas where Bo _supposedly_ lacks in "ring skills" he more than makes up for with one of the best heel acts in the world (IMO) and the blessing of having the crowd in the palm of his hand, giving him more heat and making Neville an even bigger hero. Add on top of that the build to the match which has been solid, the stipulation and it being Bo's toughest challenge to date during a title reign that the crowd have been praying ends since it started, then you have the makings for a fantastic match.

Honestly expecting two MOTYCs, or at least one and an extremely good-great match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have until about 5:30, so I guess I can watch the FIRST MATCH :mark: :mark:



Spoiler: ARRIVAL



which is Zayn vs. Cesaro :moyes1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Guys, not trying to spoil anything, but Zayn and Cesaro just topped their 2/3 Falls match, no I'm not kidding. Oh my god that was one fucking incredible match. Completely, totally different style match than the 2/3 Falls, much more WWE main event style/story oriented. I don't know if it tops Wyatt's/Shield for MotY, probably not, but it's EASILY #2, ahead of Bryan/Bray by a mile. Zayn is just incredible, I hope Vince watched that match to see how foolish he is for not calling Zayn up earlier. His selling was better than any I've seen in recent memory.

****3/4. That damn good. I haven't seen a match timed so perfectly in a long, long time. Since Punk/Lesnar Summerslam probably. Everyone needs to find this match ASAP and make it a priority watch, if you were foolish enough not to have it a priority anyway.


I'm almost speechless right now. THAT was fucking story telling.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

*Tyler Black [Rollins] vs. Danielson at Southern Navigation '08 - **** 1/4.* Bryan had so much more personality back then. Well, the type of personality that I like anyway. He was a smart-ass little shit. Don't know what happened in the WWE, but it seems that he had a much bigger personality back then, within those small confines. Every time I watch old stuff, I see why he had such a big following.

He was great, as expected, and this was a nice lil' clinic. Loved the whole spot of Rollin's last move right into the submission maneuver. That was pretty slick. 


*Rollins vs. Ambrose at FCW 9/18/11 [30 Minute Iron Man Match] - ***** 1/2.* Was surprised how much I loved this. Had always been putting it off for some reason. Didn't think I'd be into it, but it kept my attention glued the entire time. These two have great chemistry. I love how their timing & and the booking was so great, that it came off as two studious students who had scouted each other supremely. 

Everything flowed together so well, and I felt it had a mixture of every element I could want in a match. Great technical wrestling, good entertainment & personality display via Ambrose, lots of excitement and back and forth action, especially toward the end. Ambrose is better in the ring than the WWE scenarios have provided him with. He can't do those short, 10 minute matches that mean nothing. He needs time to really put on a display, and when he has it, he's actually much more impressive than one would ever expect. I mean his actual pure _wrestling_ skills were better than I'd previously ever given him credit for.

I'd definitely recommend this match, especially to those who think that Ambrose sucks in the ring. I think it's an indication that he actually can be quite great, but no argument that he needs certain parameters to shine. Sadly, I don't think that the WWE is gonna give him those, because he may be destined to being an eight minute midcard jobber act. Hopefully not. 



*Rock vs. Mankind - Half Time Heat [Empty Arena Match] Jan 31, 1999* - This was fun. I liked the office scene. I saw the headline that this was the stupidest ending in wrestling history, but I didn't think so at all. Thought it was pretty inventive, and took me by surprise. Wasn't expecting a decisive finish.



*Rock vs. Mankind - RAW, February 15, 1999 [Ladder Match]* - This was fun, and I thought that Austin was an asset on commentary. He had previously annoyed me on commentary during the Angle/Benoit cage match, so I was dreading his appearance here, but I thought he was great! He wasn't distracting at all; put over both guys; and talked the way any normal person would while watching the match. I didn't think the match as anything spectacular, but it was a fun, easy, watch, and I thought the near-ending moment with Socko was great. *** 1/2.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Fuck me, that match was awesome. :zayn :cesaro 

Gonna catch the rest on demand once I get home 

EDIT: DAT SPORTSMANSHIP


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Someone talk me out of giving Zayn/Cesaro a full *****. Seriously, I think it was perfect.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

God damn, we might have a new MOTY


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moustache said:


> Someone talk me out of giving Zayn/Cesaro a full *****. Seriously, I think it was perfect.



I can't do it. I never give a match ***** on a first watch, I always watch something 3 times before going the full 5. Right now I'm at ****3/4, it could easily end up getting the perfect rating in the end. Jesus, that is why I watch wrestling. For matches like that.

Will seriously need to watch this and Wyatt's/Shield back to back to determine the MotY so far. It's only February, but Christ we have had some SERIOUS quality so far.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Marked the fuck out during that match, like twenty times.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

We have 2 ****3/4 matches already in 2014 and its only the end of February :|

****3/4 for that obv


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Guys just a reminder, try not to spoil it by referencing specific spots or who won for right now, not everyone has the network and I want them to be able to enjoy it on first watch spoiler free. I wouldn't want to ruin a match THAT great for the other guys on here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, looks like I have to be on the hunt for a great match. Is it better than Shield/Wyatts? If yes, then it must be really fucking good. Not hard to figure out when I hear it's even better than 2/3 falls. Zayn needs to join the roster already. He's amazing from what little I've seen.

In the meantime, I've come to accept there wont be any Network for me until that shit is launching over here so I went and rewatched Benoit/Rock from Fully Loaded on DM and that match is still as awesome as ever.

EDIT: Yes, please. Avoid spoilers!


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

wow that match :mark: :mark: :mark:



Spoiler: wat



need a .gif of sami's selling of the swing asap


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No fucking way, yea I'm logging off not to be spoiled, will watch tomorrow


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah that was better than the Shield/Wyatts match imo


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@LilOlMe Did you watch the two Ambrose/Rollins 15 title matches prior to the 30 minute match? It's a must to really appreciate the greatness of the 30 minute match. 

The 15 title needs to be reintroduced, such a cool concept.

Edit: re. Zayn/Cesaro, yes it needs another watch + my stream was slightly sloppy, but I think I preferred the 2/3 falls. Will watch both tomorrow, though.

Now gonna not pay attention for the rest of the show until the GOAT, Bo Dallas, shows up. :mark:


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> I can't do it. I never give a match ***** on a first watch, I always watch something 3 times before going the full 5. Right now I'm at ****3/4, it could easily end up getting the perfect rating in the end. Jesus, that is why I watch wrestling. For matches like that.
> 
> Will seriously need to watch this and Wyatt's/Shield back to back to determine the MotY so far. It's only February, but Christ we have had some SERIOUS quality so far.


Yeah, same here. Always need to re-watch. The last three matches I've immediately felt this strongly about were Punk/Lesnar, Lesnar/Cena, and Cena/Punk MITB. All of those settled at ****3/4 for me. 

All pessimism I have toward WWE has evaporated at the moment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Wow, looks like I have to be on the hunt for a great match. Is it better than Shield/Wyatts? If yes, then it must be really fucking good. Not hard to figure out when I hear it's even better than 2/3 falls. Zayn needs to join the roster already. He's amazing from what little I've seen.
> 
> In the meantime, I've come to accept there wont be any Network for me until that shit is launching over here so I went and rewatched Benoit/Rock from Fully Loaded on DM and that match is still as awesome as ever.
> 
> EDIT: Yes, please. Avoid spoilers!


I watched Rocky/Benoit the day the network launched, yes it's still every bit as good as I remembered. I gave it ****1/2. The crazy thing is, I honestly think Rocky was almost if not just as good as Benoit in that one. The chemistry between those two was unreal, especially since Benoit said they hadn't had a single match at a house show or anything to prepare. I still think Jericho/Trips was the MotN and MotY for 2000, but this was a close second.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

What a match from Cesaro/Zayn on nxt ! 

****1/4


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> *Rock vs. Mankind - RAW, February 15, 1999 [Ladder Match]* - This was fun, and I thought that Austin was an asset on commentary. He had previously annoyed me on commentary during the Angle/Benoit cage match, so I was dreading his appearance here, but I thought he was great! He wasn't distracting at all; put over both guys; and talked the way any normal person would while watching the match. I didn't think the match as anything spectacular, but it was a fun, easy, watch, and I thought the near-ending moment with Socko was great. *** 1/2.


The way Michael Cole sold the hell out of Big Show chokeslamming Mankind off the ladder was probably his best play by play call ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That had me fooled on like 20 false finishes. As crazy as it sounds, that could beat out Shield/Wyatts.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> That had me fooled on like 20 false finishes. As crazy as it sounds, that could beat out Shield/Wyatts.



Glad I'm not the only one who feels so strongly about that match. I was worried I'd look like an idiot with everyone saying "No N00b nothing beats Shield/Wyatt's" but this might honestly be better. I consider them tied for now, but I've only seen each once. Will require a back to back second viewing to decide for sure.

I got fooled too man. I knew they'd have a great match, but I didn't think they'd actually top the 2/3 falls, let alone put on a sure fire MotY contender. This would have beat every match from 2013 for MotY except Punker/Lesnar. Smokes Taker/Punk, Bryan/Cena, ADR/Ziggler, smokes them all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I watched Rocky/Benoit the day the network launched, yes it's still every bit as good as I remembered. I gave it ****1/2. The crazy thing is, I honestly think Rocky was almost if not just as good as Benoit in that one. The chemistry between those two was unreal, especially since Benoit said they hadn't had a single match at a house show or anything to prepare. I still think Jericho/Trips was the MotN and MotY for 2000, but this was a close second.


I haven't watched the LMS in a long time but last I remember, I thought Benoit/Rock wiped the floor with it. It might be bias and more investment since I like Benoit and Rock way more than Jericho or HHH but I enjoyed it way more. The Shane factor and the false finish with the DQ only added to it. And yeah, Rock proved that he can perform as good as anyone in that match. Or any other with Benoit for that matter. Their chemistry is off the hook and almost, if not as good as Benoit/Orton.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> *Rock vs. Mankind - Half Time Heat [Empty Arena Match] Jan 31, 1999* - This was fun. I liked the office scene. I saw the headline that this was the stupidest ending in wrestling history, but I didn't think so at all. Thought it was pretty inventive, and took me by surprise. Wasn't expecting a decisive finish.


 Liked the ending as well even though Rock's acting at the end isn't the best


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Flux said:


> @LilOlMe Did you watch the two Ambrose/Rollins 15 title matches prior to the 30 minute match? It's a must to really appreciate the greatness of the 30 minute match.


Do you know the dates for those and/or have the links to them? I obviously know the results now due to watching the 30 minute one, but would still like to watch those, due to what you're saying.

I think I know what you mean....seeing all those together makes those final moments in the 30 minute one all the more special, right?




KingLobos said:


> The way Michael Cole sold the hell out of Big Show chokeslamming Mankind off the ladder was probably his best play by play call ever.


Since you're also a Rocky fan, I posted more about the Rock/Mankind series on page 691, btw [posts #6901 & #6907].




Oliver-94 said:


> Liked the ending as well even though Rock's acting at the end isn't the best


LOL, the sudden overhead camera made it so Hollywood'ed out.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll find the links for you later on, LilOlMe (Y)

I take back what I said about Paige and Emma, that was pretty fucking fantastic. Props


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> I'll find the links for you later on, LilOlMe (Y)
> 
> I take back what I said about Paige and Emma, that was pretty fucking fantastic. Props


Agreed that was a damn good Divas match, that submission Paige busted out in the end was fucking SICK looking.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Damn, that's the best Divas match I've seen in a very long time. This PPV is delivering all over the place.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ladder match wasn't bad but it wasn't great or anything either, just loved the finish :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

***3/4 for the ladder match

Pretty big spoiler cactus


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Spoiler: ladder match



lol @ people complaining about no Red Arrow of the ladder and there not being one affecting the quality of the match. I swear unless there was something steadying the ladder at the base, it would be impossible to do anyway? Coz obviously Neville needs to push forward more than up so he doesn't clip the ladder, he pushes that hard he'll just push the ladder from underneath him. 

Ridiculous complaint. Was a great match, IMO.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'll have to check out the ladder match. My stream was really acting up during it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

One awesome match, two great ones.

Great ppv.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cesaro/Zayn IV was better than the 2/3 falls. Throwing ****1/2 at it, it's right there with the Shield/Wyatts. 



Spoiler: Thoughts on the match so don't read if you don't wanna be spoiled



So many false finishes, and Zayn was such an amazing babyface, trying to forge a comeback at the kick. The kickout at ONE after the match had gone like 20 minutes with him trying so hard to muster the energy, but ultimately falling was great. Cesaro showing love after the match gave me the feels. Loved it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> ***3/4 for the ladder match
> 
> Pretty big spoiler cactus



I didn't spoil anything, just said I loved the finish. Changed the wording just in case I am wrong and did actually spoil it haha.

I think Nevile certainly has a place on the main roster as a mid-upper mid card baby face. If he works on his promo a bit he should be called up in no time. That said, with the way the product currently is, it's more focused on action in the ring than talking for everyone but the top guys. They could call him up right now and he'd up be just fine. Makes me really wonder about Vince's sanity when he employs guys like the Miz and Kofi on the main roster but has Zayn and Neville, two guys infinitely more talented in every singe aspect of wrestling, down at NXT busting their bumps trying to earn a spot.

I think Zayn, after tonight, has to be called up in the next 3 months. Vince and Hunter had to see the talent. And unlike Chris Hero, Zayn seems to be getting more and more ripped and muscular looking as the months go on. He looks like what Triple H and Vince think a WWE wrestler should look like, and now he's proven he can work the WWE style match to perfection. I think that match, maybe with the exception of Regal/Cesaro, was one of the best in ring stories I've seen in ages. You could just FEEL Zayns pain and anguish, and he had borderline Ricky Steamboat-esque fire in his comebacks. I get giddy thinking about how we could potentially have Bryan and Zayn main event a PPV one day. Look how far the product has come in just the past 3 years since Punks rise to the top. Guys with actual TALENT, like Bryan, The Shield, The Wyatt's, and Cesaro, are getting the shine they so deserve. The booking on the whole for WWE is still really bad, but the guys are knocking it out of the park when it comes to the work in the ropes. I would take that any day over a program like Batista/Trips 2005, where the build and booking was just PERFECT but the matches absolutely stunk until they got to HiaC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Literally searching EVERYWHERE for cesaro/zayn must be seen TONIGHT


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Wow Cesaro/Zayn, just wow! 

****3/4 on first watch. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Literally searching EVERYWHERE for cesaro/zayn must be seen TONIGHT



I'll see if it's on Hulu Plus. If it is, I'll PM you my username and password so you can watch it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd love you forever, will probably be up for another hour


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol at how much better that NXT show was than most things WWE does.

My Roku player was having some trouble at times but it didn't' hurt my enjoyment one bit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> I'd love you forever, will probably be up for another hour



Sorry man I just checked the most recent thing up is the Feb. 19 NXT show. I'll keep looking you really gotta see this.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea NP, I joke w/ the guys in the catbox for me reasons of not getting the network, but I will probably cave in and buy it next week  when I'm free to indulge hours and hours of Renee Young with a sprinkle of Eva Marie :kobe6


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Yea NP, I joke w/ the guys in the catbox for me reasons of not getting the network, but I will probably cave in and buy it next week  when I'm free to indulge hours and hours of Renee Young with a sprinkle of Eva Marie :kobe6


I'm telling you bro, it's worth it for the WCW PPV's alone. I just watched Regal/Finlay Uncensored in crystal clear quality for the first time. It really makes everything so much better, you can see all the facial expressions and every drop of sweat that flies off them when they get punched. To get all the PPV's in HD is almost worth the $9.99 alone, but the fact they have every PPV ever up there and they are gonna keep adding content and seasons of raw and Smackdown makes me think it's a wise investment if you had the extra dough. I'm paying for it by cutting down on smoking, instead of smoking 6 packs of ciggarettes a month I'm cutting it down to 4 and I'll save $10.

Apparently they are gonna add all the documentaries along with more WCCW and Mid South stuff in the next 6 months too, which would be awesome. Plus, Renee Young hosts everything, I can't ever get too much Renee Young. I have an unhealthy crush on her. I honestly think she should replace Lawler and become the first female color commentator ever.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WWE struck gold with Renee Young.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've searched everywhere, but I'm convinced that Zayn/Cesaro never existed.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Zayn is possibly the best seller they've had in years. What a perfect underdog babyface- I'd say there's nobody in the world who does that better.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Since the WWE App sent the results of Paige/Emma and Neville/Dallas to me while I was at the gym, I guess I don't have to worry about who won.

Gonna have to check those matches out though  (and watch Zayn/Cesaro again :mark


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Quick question- since I don't have the Network, is there anywhere else I can find Arrival? Can someone PM me? Or will we have to wait for future NXT episodes?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cesaro/Zayn beats out the 6 man pretty easily I must say


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Spoiler:  My not really insightful ArRival review



I don't really remember the match order too well, but...
Cesaro vs. Zayn: What can I say about this match that hasn't been said? Absolutely incredible. 
Mojo Rawley vs. CJ Parker: LOLNO. 
The Ascension vs. 2 Cool: :lmao at Scotty 2 Baldy.
Paige vs. Emma: PAIGE IN HD. GOOD LORD. :kobe4
Tyler Breeze vs. Xavier Woods (I think. Something about Rusev too): LOLNO.
Neville vs. Bocahantas: Didn't think it was anything great, but I was admittedly tired while watching it (and still am ). Some decent spots throughout, and I liked the ending.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Zayn/Cesaro and Paige/Emma were both **** -matches. Amazing stuff. Bo vs. Neville was nice as well.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just watched Magnum vs Tully from Starrcade. This is just one of those matches for me that I don't get why it's so highly praised. I think it's boring and bad. I'd give it like **1/2 at most. I've watched it multiple times and I just can't get into it.


----------



## tailhook (Feb 23, 2014)

1. Cesaro/Zayn
2. Emma/Paige

3. The Ladder Match

4. There were other matches?

----

#1 went longer and was worth the price of admission.. but definitely a stellar #2 match with the women. The ladder match was a bit of a yawner, but some good spots. The WWE has definitely come a long way from the Boob Job "Straight To Playboy" Divas Era, and seem to have done a good job both recruiting and a) getting women physically fit and b) teaching them some moves.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Caught the main three matches from Arrival...awesome. The future is so bright. Loved Cesaro-Zayn, but not MOTY. It still doesn't beat out The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family. Paige-Emma is going to be the divas match of the year, no doubt it. The ladder match started slow and was difficult for me to get into, but the ending was hot.

Cesaro-Zayn: ****1/4


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

tailhook said:


> 4. There were other matches?


How could you miss Too Cool coming back!!!?!?!?!?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ugh, I was at work as the PPV was going on... (though I read there were issues anyway).

I may have been lazy in getting around to watching the very highly rated Cesaro/Zayn match last year, but I'm not slacking on this one. Someone in this thread better hold me to it until I finally watch it (which hopefully will be by Tuesday).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MY PACKAGE ARRIVED 5TH ROW RINGSIDE WRESTLEMANIA :mark: I DONT EVEN CARE WHAT THE MATCHES ARE ANYMORE LEL

Sorry I just had to mark out. This is awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ham619 said:


> ^ better bring up a sign so I can see how you look.


Im bringing several signs:

HHH > CAL
OFFICIAL DVD THREAD FTW
HI SKINS ZIGGLER STILL SUCKS
MODS RULE
UNDERTAKER IS THE KING OF GINGERS 

:vince2


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

HBK/Taker WM 25

*****

Hadn't seen it in a few years but it's right there with Bret/Austin as greatest WM match of all time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Im bringing several signs:
> 
> HHH > CAL
> OFFICIAL DVD THREAD FTW
> ...


SO MUCH :mark:. SO LITTLE TIME.

Starbuck, what's your thoughts on the Austin-HHH PPV bouts from Survivor Series 2000 & No Way Out 2001? I STILL haven't gotten around to rewatching them lately and I realize that guys like IWW & #BNS still love the No Way Out match but it's used as fodder for HHHaters to say he wasn't that good in 2000-2001 quite often as well .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I realize that guys like IWW & #BNS still love the No Way Out match


Count me in for that match too. Guilty pleasure of mine, still love it to this day. Not that keen on the first fall if i'm honest, but love the final two. can't remember a think about the SS match, apart from a fucking great build up video.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> SO MUCH :mark:. SO LITTLE TIME.
> 
> Starbuck, what's your thoughts on the Austin-HHH PPV bouts from Survivor Series 2000 & No Way Out 2001? I STILL haven't gotten around to rewatching them lately and I realize that guys like IWW & #BNS still love the No Way Out match but it's used as fodder for HHHaters to say he wasn't that good in 2000-2001 quite often as well .


I haven't seen either in ages. I always loved the 3SOH but my taste has changed so much since the last time I saw it and it gets shit on so often in here, who knows what ill make of it when I get around to watching it again. The SS match I dont remember much about it at all really. Anything is fodder for GAME haters. Silly sons of bitches..... especially that ginger mong 

I'm also floor seating for HOF btw. Anybody you want me to throw something at just say the word and it's done. Fuck if Khali is sitting in front of me though. Ziggler had better watch out, im coming for this jobber.

:trips3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dolph gets buried enough by the company, just let him suffer in the dark match or a meaningless tag like he's going to anyways :lol.

Just remember to POP when HHH goes over Bryan and the rest of the stadium is ready to KILL THE GAME.

If they storm the ring, it's your responsibility to protect our lord and saviour. FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS :mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

To be fair to HHH, Austin was the best wrestler in the world in 2001 and didn't look like anything special in the 2/3 falls match either. Hell I'd say Trip was better in the first fall [the first fall is all I tend to remember about the entire match, I'm pretty sure I'd like the match even a little if I actually bothered to watch the whole thing again].

The Survivor Series match only exists as a way to exercise a neglected fast-forward button on a TV remote.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Dolph gets buried enough by the company, just let him suffer in the dark match or a meaningless tag like he's going to anyways :lol.
> 
> Just remember to POP when HHH goes over Bryan and the rest of the stadium is ready to KILL THE GAME.
> 
> If they storm the ring, it's your responsibility to protect our lord and saviour. FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS :mark:.


I will heckle the fuck out of Zigs at Axxess. I'm going to line up to meet him just so I can tell him how much he sucks. Then I'll tell him him that SKINS on wrestlingforum.com wants to be his lover.

Im going to be wearing the brand new BEST FOR BUSINESS authentic t shirt and when Prince Paul goes over little Danny B im going to hold up a massive troll face sign and scream YES YES YES YES YES....... then run for the exits before I get lynched.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean it's nice to sit down and talk about Bryan winning so that he can be put over and propelled to that next level, and why that may be the absolute RIGHT thing to do, you have to consider that as a HHH fan that I'm going to be rooting for him at Wrestlemania and I'm sure you feel the same way. Just putting the backstage nonsense in the trash where it belongs and marking for HHHGOAT to beat Bryan, rooting for our guy . If he loses, it's the right thing to do for sure, but I'll be going for HHH because if you care more about the booking of the company than just having fun and picking a side, then I don't really know what to say .

HHH making these motherfuckers tremble before the shovel :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> I mean it's nice to sit down and talk about Bryan winning so that he can be put over and propelled to that next level, and why that may be the absolute RIGHT thing to do, you have to consider that as a HHH fan that I'm going to be rooting for him at Wrestlemania and I'm sure you feel the same way. Just putting the backstage nonsense in the trash where it belongs and marking for HHHGOAT to beat Bryan, rooting for our guy . If he loses, it's the right thing to do for sure, but I'll be going for HHH because if you care more about the booking of the company than just having fun and picking a side, then I don't really know what to say .
> 
> HHH making these motherfuckers tremble before the shovel :mark:.


I had to catch myself 2 years ago for the first Brock match. It was like, why the fuck do I care who goes over? I just want to see the damn match. Sometimes we all get caught up in being bookers we forget to take a step back and watch the show. The Bryan situation is a bit different though. Trips really shouldn't be winning this although I will :lmao if he does. There really won't be anything to say or do other than laugh lol. 

#ShovelKing


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Cesaro/Zayn ****1/2

Wow is all I can say


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

tailhook said:


> 1. Cesaro/Zayn
> 2. Emma/Paige
> 
> 3. The Ladder Match
> ...


Agreed. Emma/Paige was better than the Ladder match for me, as well.

Both women did great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I had to catch myself 2 years ago for the first Brock match. It was like, why the fuck do I care who goes over? I just want to see the damn match. Sometimes we all get caught up in being bookers we forget to take a step back and watch the show. The Bryan situation is a bit different though. Trips really shouldn't be winning this although I will :lmao if he does. There really won't be anything to say or do other than laugh lol.
> 
> #ShovelKing


That's what I'm getting at here. 

I can totally see HHH wanting to not lose his first match as a corporate heel though, I just can't see him putting over Bryan after the BROCK situation last year where he basically knocked out Brock fucking Lesnar in their biggest match together. HHH should NOT win against Daniel Bryan by any means, but that doesn't mean that we can't root for a HHH victory as marks because that's what being a fan is all about .

I don't get how somebody can watch wrestling and not care about who wins :lol.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I would rather Bryan win as he's lost in the EC match, Bray Wyatt match, and at TLC.

i know the fans'll be massively behind him even if he lost to Undertaker, but I just don't want them to potentially over-do it in terms of building him up for his big title win, because this shit's been going on since August.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ideally, Bryan would win at WM XXX, go on to win the WWE title the night after or at Extreme Rules, and then beat Punk in Punk's last match in Chicago when Payback rolls around before setting up another Bryan-Cena feud while perhaps Batista-Brock main event Summerslam in that match that apparently a whole bunch of people want to see.

HHH winning to some of the greatest heat in WWE history though :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> That's what I'm getting at here.
> 
> I can totally see HHH wanting to not lose his first match as a corporate heel though, I just can't see him putting over Bryan after the BROCK situation last year where he basically knocked out Brock fucking Lesnar in their biggest match together. HHH should NOT win against Daniel Bryan by any means, but that doesn't mean that we can't root for a HHH victory as marks because that's what being a fan is all about .
> 
> I don't get how somebody can watch wrestling and not care about who wins :lol.


It doesn't tend to bother me, only the odd time will I get annoyed over something. I don't let myself get upset over wrestling lol, its all a bit of fun and if it stops being fun then I tune out and wait until they pick things up again. 

In this scenario though I do actually want Bryan to win the match. Even as a Trips mark I genuinely want to see Bryan beat his ass. That's the payoff im waiting for and have been waiting for since August. HHH winning isnt going to destoy my life either although it will definitely have a negative impact on everything else they try to do going forward. 

So yeah, my attitude to WWE is that it's just a TV show you know? Sometimes I wish everybody could remember that and just take it for what it is instead of getting obbsessive and borderline insane over what happens. This is my last trip to Mania and I'm going in with a positive attitude. Im not about to let my inner booking smark ruin the show for me when I can fly out there purely as a fan and have a great time no matter who goes over. It's just wrasslin.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

If Bryan/HHH is a normal match, though... :side:

They can make it a brutal match without it being a gimmick match (example being No Holds Barred, Hell In A Cell, etc), but for some reason, much like Taker/Lesnar, If it is a normal match, I will question it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There was an NXT PPV last night? Ah fuck, so that's what NXT arrival was. Oh well, off to download. It's makes me sad to think that is one of WWE's best rosters of all time in terms of talent, yet for some reason Batista vs Orton is the main event at Wrestlemania.

Wrestlemania used to be a show that built stars, now they just treat it as the who's who and the who was of pro wrestling. Don't get me wrong, it's Wrestle-freaking-Mania, I expect WWE to go all out. But they're just trying way too hard now to build these epic Mania cards where every match just has to have a big fight feel to it.

What's going to happen is that the young guys will receive their pushes throughout the year but as soon as Mania season comes around, they'll dwindle so the part timers can take over.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The only issue I have with Zayn as a seller is that when he does that Protobomb move, he no-sells any damage done to him. I still have Christian and Punk at the top of my list of best sellers in the past few years, but Zayn understands how to play a babyface almost as well as Ricky Steamboat.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I got Chi-Town Rumble feelings from the Zayn/Cesaro match. Felt like the Flair/Steamboat rivalry in '89 in reverse (don't think it was anything similar to the WrestleWar match). Match was very close to absolutely flawless anyway. Zayn panicking and shaking his head 'NO!' when he was lined up for the powerbomb in the turnbuckle is one of the best sights I've ever witnessed in wrestling.


On the run of great PPVs, I've seen quite a few WCW PPVs come up but one I've never seen is the 1990 Great American Bash. This event is exceptional. Southern Boys/Midnight Express was perfect, Steiners/Freebirds was really enjoyable and the six man tag was extremely fun. Yet to watch the final three matches, but on those three matches that I've listed so far, it would of been a great event without any more additions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1992 GAB is great too, even if Big Dave shat on it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I need to stock up my external hardrive for the flight over. Planning to fill it with wrestling and I dont even know where to start. Some manias obviously. Think I'll chuck a ton of Shield on there, some docs and what else? Suggestions anybody, things that get you hyped for wrestlemania?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch all of HHH's Wrestlemania matches, even the Warrior one.

The entrances alone will make you :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

or Armageddon 03 :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS ENTRANCE OH MY GOD. I was there live for that. It was beyond amazing. So was Miz's YOU CAN HATE ME NOW one too actually. Miz . Dat Cena choir though. :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Is there anything from this year worth watching that's not; Bryan-Wyatt, Bryan-Cesaro, Bryan-Orton, Cesaro-Zayn Cesaro-Orton, Cesaro-Cena, Shield-Wyatt's, chamber match, Sheamus-Christian and Sheamus/Christian-Real Americans?


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> Is there anything from this year worth watching that's not; Bryan-Wyatt, Bryan-Cesaro, Bryan-Orton, Cesaro-Zayn Cesaro-Orton, Cesaro-Cena, Shield-Wyatt's, chamber match, Sheamus-Christian and Sheamus/Christian-Real Americans?


Paige vs. Emma from NXT Arrival last night.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Eulonzo said:


> Paige vs. Emma from NXT Arrival last night.


Haven't watched a divas match in about 5 years but ok


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK YOU FOR SEEING THAT ENTRANCE LIVE.

I thought nothing could ever top HHH's Wrestlemania 22 entrance in sheer terms of giving me goosebumps every time I see it, but that For Whom The Bell Tolls entrance was absolutely fucking PERFECT. From the bell mirroring Undertaker's theme to the fact that it's HHH coming out to my favorite Metallica song, to when THE GAME drops and you see that fucking intense look on Haitch's face and he's just standing there, he looks like a man on a mission.

:mark:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh and I don't think anyone's said this yet (probably because it's obvious) but Paige/Emma completely shits on Kaitlyn/AJ from Payback. Kaitlyn/AJ was good but not as amazing as people made it out to be, and I've thought that way before the Divas match last night. I just think people praised it to death because it was refreshing and amazing compared to the shit we were getting from the Divas before.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

NXT Arrival was awesome.

Cesaro/Zayn was incredible. Such a good babyface performance from Zayn, he has such a vulnerability about him that's so endearing and you can't help but cheer for the guy. Cesaro was a beast as always, the match was top notch.

Paige/Emma was the best divas match since AJ/Kaitlyn and may top it. Finish was excellent and made Paige look like a real champion, as she always had something like that submission up her sleeve. Emmatista Bomb was awesome too. #betterthanbatista :lmao

Ladder match was okay, glad Neville won, Bo will be in the main roster just after Mania imo. Neville will make it by the summer.

WE WANT ZAYN. That guy is the next Daniel Bryan, in that he'll get completely over all by himself no matter how they book him.

Shame i had to download this as the network wasn't working for me 8*D


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> FUCK YOU FOR SEEING THAT ENTRANCE LIVE.
> 
> I thought nothing could ever top HHH's Wrestlemania 22 entrance in sheer terms of giving me goosebumps every time I see it, but that For Whom The Bell Tolls entrance was absolutely fucking PERFECT. From the bell mirroring Undertaker's theme to the fact that it's HHH coming out to my favorite Metallica song, to when THE GAME drops and you see that fucking intense look on Haitch's face and he's just standing there, he looks like a man on a mission.
> 
> :mark:


:trips3

I've seen some awesome entrances live. 

25: All the Cena's, HBK descending from above, Taker ascending from hell :mark: 
26: NO CHANCE IN HELL WRESTLEMANIA STYLE
27: For Whom The Bell Tolls, Miz, MICHAEL COLE 8*D
28: Rock and Cena fuck everybody I enjoyed FloRida and MGK singing them out, MEMORY REMAINS FOR THE CELL SO MUCH :mark:, Punk COP fireworks were great too

I wonder what they have in store for us this year, probably Bryan coming out on a goat or something...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Im bringing several signs:
> 
> HHH > CAL
> OFFICIAL DVD THREAD FTW
> ...


:lmao :lmao It will probably be his only appearance on the show, 5th row is pretty sick


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

20 minute non stop ORGASM. Just watched Zayn/Cesaro from NXT Arrival. Oh. My. God. Lived up to the hype from their 2/3 falls and THEN SOME. Holy shit. I mean... WOW. Just fucking WOW. Zayn was MAGNIFICENT as the babyface fighting not only to win the match but to gain the RESPECT of Cesaro. He sold his leg incredibly, he sold the brutal offence of Cesaro incredibly, and his comebacks were just a thing of beauty. And Cesaro. Man oh man oh man oh man. Glorious. Using his power to counter typical Zayn offence. Countering that DDT through the ropes, showing that he knows Zayn extremely well from their previous matches. The leg work that was just tremendous. And his reactions to Zayn's comebacks, especially towards the end as Zayn was refusing to give up. In the end Cesaro picks up the win in spectacular fashion, but before he goes to the back, he comes back into the ring and HUGS Zayn. Zayn lost the match, but he got that RESPECT and you gotta believe it was just as, if not more, important to him than beating Cesaro. I adore the 6 man tag from EC, but move fucking over because THIS is my MOTY now. I'm contemplating throwing the full ***** at it tbh.



Starbuck said:


> Im bringing several signs:
> 
> HHH > CAL
> OFFICIAL DVD THREAD FTW
> ...


Awesome. Most of those are actually complimentary to me in a way . DVD THREAD is MY THREAD so yey. MODS RULES and of course I'm a mod so duh. Undertaker is absolute THE KING. And Ziggler still sucks and any dig as Skins makes my day.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just curious, how long legitimately was the Cesaro/Zayn match?

I thought it was close to 30 minutes because was about to end around the 27 minute mark.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Went about 23 minutes I does believe.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Awesome. Most of those are actually complimentary to me in a way . DVD THREAD is MY THREAD so yey. MODS RULES and of course I'm a mod so duh. Undertaker is absolute THE KING. And Ziggler still sucks and any dig as Skins makes my day.


Maybe I should just bring a CAL IS SHIT one instead. Or SKINS > CAL. Don't know now.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

About to watch Zayn/Cesaro again. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I hardly delve into NXT stuff, but looks like i need to watch Cesaro/Zayn. Hope it gets upped on YT/DM as i cba to DL the whole PPV atm. 

EDIT - Or i may grab the PPV, sounds like its worth it.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> :trips3
> 
> I wonder what they have in store for us this year, probably Bryan coming out on a goat or something...


Live Wyatt's theme :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the topic of great Mania entrances, Taker and Punk's entrances were awesome. Taker in particular, the view of it was incredible on TV, same for live (it actually warmed up the stadium quite a bit. He could've taken the rest of the show to get to the ring for all I cared.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Sami vs Cesaro :wall I JUST CAN'T


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Man that Cesaro is talented:

I searched "Lesnar vs" to find some Lesnar matches. This was the 5th or 6th result and funny enough no Lesnar matches were before this...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Because I'm awesome:

Cesaro Vs Sami Zayn - NXT Arrival 27.02.2014

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5MI7mPMAvDtVz5Fd2d


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Sami vs Cesaro :wall I JUST CAN'T



That pretty much sums up my feelings exactly. I really can't believe just how great that match was, could easily see it earning the full ***** after I've had a chance to rewatch it a few times and pick up on all the subtle things both guys add. That through the ropes uppercut :mark: I made a total NBA dunk face after that one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

He still has "Antonio" in his name after they actually edited all mentions out of the NXT edition with the 2/3 falls match? Mind = BLOWN! 8*D

lol @ Starbuck's sign ideas. GINGERTAKER needs to catch on as a meme, so give that one a thought too. :lol

And for anyone who wants to see the CESARO/Zayn match. Go to watchwrestling and it's there. Time to witness what seems to be a classic. :mark:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:vince :vince2 :vince3 :vince4 :vince5 :vince6 :vince7


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love you Cal


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cal you amazing sexual animal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cesaro is the fucking man. It's not even fair :lmao

DOUBLE STOMP TO THE FUCKING FACE :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bubz said:


> Cal you amazing sexual animal.



Cal, he's so hot right now *Mugatu voice*. (zoolander reference)


Time for the old rewatch to see if it's still a borderline 5-star classic. What a fucking match, people. I wonder what Hayley and William think, aren't they both big Generico/Zayn fans?

Regal called Cesaro the greatest wrestler in the world on commentary. I don't think he was doing normal WWE hyperbole bullshit, I think he really believes it. What a great compliment from a guy who is unequestionably one of the greatest wrestlers ever.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Zayn has to be the next guy up right? RIGHT?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Zayn has to be the next guy up right? RIGHT?



One would think. Rusev seems to be the guy the office loves, but Zayn deserves it so much more.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Thanks a bunch for uploading Cesaro-Zayn, been looking forward to this all day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Phew, just me or is it getting hot in here?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched it :kobe6 no words


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of the Steen/Generico ladder match that's gets praised? Think it's ROH. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

^12/16/12

ROH Final Battle 2012


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> One would think. Rusev seems to be the guy the office loves, but Zayn deserves it so much more.


I consider Rusev to be up with his vignettes


The Hitman said:


> What is the date of the Steen/Generico ladder match that's gets praised? Think it's ROH.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I think the PWG one is the best from Steen Wolf


Also, random stars from WWE Network viewing 
Sting/Foley FCA ****1/2
Super Friends/Shield EC 2013 ****1/4


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> What is the date of the Steen/Generico ladder match that's gets praised? Think it's ROH.


That match sucked. Their PWG Steen Wolf ladder match is 10x better, and a five star match. HATE!


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Just watched it :kobe6 no words


:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> That match sucked. Their PWG Steen Wolf ladder match is 10x better, and a five star match. HATE!


Yeah I didn't know which one it was, ROH or PWG . Do you know the date of the PWG one?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Phew, just me or is it getting hot in here?



Cal, is that Arn/Regal WCW match you uploaded as good in real life as it sounds on paper?


I think Generico losing the mask and becoming Sami Zayn was the best move for him. I think the lack of mask makes him an even better baby face. Zayn has the same quality Mick Foley does, he just looks like a decent human being, someone you wouldn't be scared to approach in the street and chat him up, whereas someone like Randy Orton looks like a total asshole. The lack of mask and being able to see all of Zayns features and expressions makes it easier than it already is to get behind him. As crazy as it sounds, his work is like a cross with Ricky Steamboat and Rey Mysterio. Very very high praise, but I just can't get over how awesome he was last night. I don't even need to mention Cesaro, we all saw what we saw, if he isn't the best wrestler in the world right now, I don't know who is. He never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly don't recall it being that great.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah I didn't know which one it was, ROH or PWG . Do you know the date of the PWG one?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


It's from the "Steen Wolf" show. If you want the date, go to prowrestlingguerrilla.com. It was sometime in December of 2011.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Yeah I didn't know which one it was, ROH or PWG . Do you know the date of the PWG one?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


10/22/11 PWG Steen Wolf


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Btw dudes, while you're in the Cesaro/Zayn mood, you should definitely check their two PWG classics from 2011:

Kurt RussellReunion ****1/4
Battle of Los Angeles ****1/2

They also had a match in ROH somewhere in 2008 that I have at ****. That chemistry!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Honestly don't recall it being that great.



Ah, bummer. I got to watch Fall Brawl 1993 in high quality for the first time a few days ago, still such an amazing match, I think it might even make my top 10-15 for WCW. Also watched Uncensored 1996 in high quality, that's surely in my top 5. I love the faces Regal makes whenever he gets the better of Finlay and he just has this pompous cuntlike face thats hilarious.

Did you happen to catch the Divas match from NXT? Emma/Paige tops Kaitlyn/AJ as the best modern divas match I think, and Paige does a really bad ass looking submission to make Emma tap. Usually you couldn't pay me to watch a divas match, but I can't hate on this one.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Im bringing several signs:
> 
> HHH > CAL
> OFFICIAL DVD THREAD FTW
> ...


:cam

Those seats sound amazing though.

--------------------------------

Starting from '01 on the Network and working my way towards the present. Watched RR '01 yesterday, currently at the 3SoH match at No Way Out. Fun show.

also lol at myself. Like 4 days ago I said I don't see anything rivaling the six man tag for a good while and a few days later Cesaro/Zayn rivals it.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Holy s*** what a match!, Zayn is such an awesome babyface and great at selling, Cesaro is just incredible, it's hard not to give this match 5 stars, it's just perfect.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Downloaded King of the Ring 2001 from XWT since somebody uploaded it. Gave the triple threat main event a proper watch and it didn't hold up well at all. I love seeing Benoit in HD with unedited commentary but wow, this was a complete mess, boring and had no energy to it. Austin couldn't do shit after being put through the table (his neck took a terrible bump against the chair), Benoit broke his neck with the back suplex and Jericho looked like he was knocked loopy for a few minutes when Benoit hit him with that wicked chair shot.

Disappointed in this, so I'll move on to Cesaro/Zayn now. It better be something great like everyone is hyping it up to be!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Ah, bummer. I got to watch Fall Brawl 1993 in high quality for the first time a few days ago, still such an amazing match, I think it might even make my top 10-15 for WCW. Also watched Uncensored 1996 in high quality, that's surely in my top 5. I love the faces Regal makes whenever he gets the better of Finlay and he just has this pompous cuntlike face thats hilarious.
> 
> Did you happen to catch the Divas match from NXT? Emma/Paige tops Kaitlyn/AJ as the best modern divas match I think, and Paige does a really bad ass looking submission to make Emma tap. Usually you couldn't pay me to watch a divas match, but I can't hate on this one.


Regal/Steamboat FB 93 is so :mark:. Was a top 5 WCW match for me.

Didn't watch the divas match, or anything else on the show tbh. Just don't care .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Disappointed in this, so I'll move on to Cesaro/Zayn now. It better be something great like everyone is hyping it up to be!


:mark:

I honestly don't see how anyone could be disappointed, even with all the hype over it. I'm excited to see Ownage/Cody/WOOLCOCK's thoughts on this match, since I was already treated to Cal's rant-like review on it. :hb


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> 10/22/11 PWG Steen Wolf


Why thank you. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Best of CM Punk title defense during his long ass reign? OTL #1 right? anything else worth checking?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho at WM definitely. ER with Jericho and MITB with Bryan are worth a watch but I'm personally not too high on either. HENRY series on Raw before WM absolutely.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one not too fond of either Jericho match? WM match picks up in the last 10 mins if I recall, but the ER draaaaaaagged so much for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Adore the WM match, but really don't care for ER at all.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll give the WM match another chance, but I remember it being a little boring for the first half - wasn't the crowd kinda dead as well?

ER is meh. Henry matches on Raw, though = :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

His match with Cena from NoC is definetely worth a watch, also his TLC match Ryback is good too


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh shit, forgot NOC. Love that match. TLC with Ryback is good too. Ryback's best singles match. 

Were any of the TV matches with Bryan for the title?


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

CM Punk vs Kane from some SmackDown (either May or June 2012) is also good


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can honestly only think of three bad matches during Punk's title reign. One was the Rock match, another one was a dumb Miz match, and the last one was the Sheamus RAW match. Yup, greatest year in WWE history for a wrestler.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I can honestly only think of three bad matches during Punk's title reign. One was the Rock match, another one was a dumb Miz match, and the last one was the Sheamus RAW match. Yup, greatest year in WWE history for a wrestler.


:StephenA2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only competition is Austin's 2001.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Big fan of the Jericho Wrestlemania match.

I remember the triple threat match with Bryan and Kane being good too. The Henry series was awesome though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only Punk matches from his reign I would keep are Jericho from WM and the TLC with Ryback. Oh and RR with The Rock just because that ended the misery. Tbf, the Henry matches need a rewatch, though.

Now it's Cesaro/Zayn time. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Only Punk matches from his reign I would keep are Jericho from WM and the TLC with Ryback. Oh and RR with The Rock just because that ended the misery. Tbf, the Henry matches need a rewatch, though.
> 
> Now it's Cesaro/Zayn time. :mark:



You've been saying that for hours just watch the damn thing already! 

Best Punk matches during his WWE Title Reign:

1. Vs Bryan OTL 2012
2. Vs Henry Raw No DQ
3. Vs Jericho WM 28
4. Vs Cena NoC 2012
5. Vs Ryback TLC


Nowhere close to the best run in history, but damn good all the same. Shame he didn't get a match with Brock during the run. They definitely could have Main Evented SS 2012 with that match, but we still got it in 2013. The MitB match with Bryan was pretty good but nowhere near as good as otl.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not really the biggest fan of the Punk/Y2j series, very overrated IMO


Cesaro/Zayn 2/27/14 is around ****1/4-1/2 need to rewatch the 2/3 falls


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is Kane vs Snitsky at TT 2004 worth watching? Thinking of skipping it


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edit: Kane/Snitsky is worth a watch, imo.


Punk's reign:

1. vs Bryan - OTL
2. vs Henry - Raw 4/2
3. vs Jericho - WM
4. vs Cena - NOC
5. vs Henry - Raw 4/16

Aweosme reign, imo.

Here's the first two PPVs of '01 that I've watched on the Network.

Royal Rumble '01

Dudleys/E&C - ***1/4
Jericho/Benoit - ****1/2
Ivory/Chyna - DUD
Angle/Trips - **1/2
RR Match - ****1/2

No Way Out '01

Show/Raven - ***1/4
Jericho/Benoit/X-Pac/Eddie - ***1/4
Stephanie/Trish - ***
Trips/Austin - ***1/4
Richards/Lawler - no
Dudleyz/BOD/E&C - ***
Rock/Angle - ***3/4

Both pretty consistently entertaining shows. Benoit/Jericho and the Rumble were both just fantastic. Raven/Show was really fun. I really liked the clusterfuck stuff over the hardcore belt. This was my first time watching Trips/Austin in ages. Doesn't hold up as the amazing match I remembered from being 9 but still a solid match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yea btw about Cesaro because what is better than talking about him in the world of pro wrestling, everyone loves his swing but the running upper cut to the corner is pure BEAUTY


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watching Cesaro/Zayn for the third time, and I suppose I'll offer my running diary:

Match is all about respect - even at the end Regal (who is GOAT on commentary btw) mentions that the RESPECT he earned might end up being more important than if he had gotten a win. Commentary throughout is a refreshing change of pace. Simple enough story here: Cesaro has repeatedly gotten the better of Zayn, and they know each other so well that all the counters actually mean something, rather than just spamming counters/finishers for no reason (quick note: there was really only one finisher each executed in this match, if the running kick to the cornered opponent is indeed Sami's finisher). Basically, Zayn is obsessed w/not only beating Cesaro, but also earning his respect.

Onto the match: Fans chanting "MOTY" already. :mark: Feeling out process with Cesaro bitching Zayn around. :mark: Commentators already putting over Cesaro within the first 5 seconds than WWE commentators ever have. Love how Zayn desperately tries to avoid the Cesaro SWING~! Zayn gains the upper hand by countering the Swing, sending Cesaro to the floor and then diving over the ropes onto him. Fans already chanting "This is Awesome." :lmao THEY CAN FEEL IT. Cesaro gains the advantage right back by making Sami pay for his high risk offense. Freakish strength with the catch -> backbreaker. Cesaro then spends the next handful of minutes punishing Zayn. Throwing him in and out of the ring, etc. Zayn gets a bit of daylight by countering Cesaro's attempt at the ringpost leg shot, and goes for the through the ropes dive -> tornado DDT. Cesaro knows what's coming thanks to their previous match, and catches him with a FUCKING ENORMOUS UPPERCUT. Jesus, whiplash city.

Cesaro is now able to target the knee to immobilize Zayn and take away his high octane style with some brutal offense - ringpost shots, stomps, submission holds. Zayn sells the beating like a champ, btw. The slower, more methodical pace obviously favors Cesaro, but the great part is that this portion of the match doesn't drag because of how brutal Cesaro's offense is and how realistic Zayn makes the beating look due to his absurd selling. Dueling chants = :hb THIS IS AWESOME again. :lmao Regal still putting over Cesaro. 

Sami's selling is a thing of beauty, and his facial expressions show the pain and agony he's suffering, getting the crowd to rally behind him. Love how the commentators explicitly mention the callback spots to their 2/3 falls match. Makes the nearfalls even better. Zayn finally counters a charge from Cesaro and sends him to the outside. He goes for another high flying move like earlier, but this time Cesaro catches him and MAKES HIM PAY. :tlk

Cesaro back in control now. Love how Cesaro cuts off the babyface hope spots in such brutal and awe-inspiring fashion. Zayn selling the leg so well that I actually thought he could've been counted out. Not sure when the last time I was fooled by a countout spot. EXPLODER SUPLEX INTO THE CORNER~! Sami's hope spots are so awesome. Crowd rallying again as Zayn's face shows a glimmer of hope. Blue Thunder Bomb is pretty sweet. Zayn still hobbling.  Didn't care for Zayn using the injured leg to apply the Koji Clutch at first, but I can pass it off as adrenaline to which Regal alludes later when Zayn runs at full speed to hit his boot in the corner. Plus, it makes Cesaro's counter even better because it's the same leg that he wraps around his neck.

Cesaro going for the Swing again, but takes too long and Zayn counters into a nearfall. Cesaro goes for it again but this time wastes no time and is able to get it. Little things like this are so awesome. Takes a split second by looking to the crowd before the Swing = almost loses match. What does he do? Goes for it again without wasting any time. Learns from his mistakes. Next sequence is absurd. HUGE uppercut to corner, but Zayn counters the pin into a nearfall, which pisses Cesaro off so he DOUBLE STOMPS ZAYN'S FUCKING FACE. The top turnbuckle spot is absurd too. THE BOOT HEARD 'ROUND THE WORLD~! Huge nearfall there. Crowd is about to shit themselves.

Cesaro finally looks vulnerable for the first time, and Sami is thriving off this momentum. However, he can't capitalize as the adrenaline is wearing off, and Cesaro actually beats him to his feet. Now we're channeling Taker/HBK with the "STAY DOWN" bit, and Zayn is selling every Cesaro uppercut like he's getting a shotgun blast to the face. Just falling like a sack of potatoes. Now Zayn is getting pissed that Cesaro is acting like a DICK so he starts to fight back. WILD EXCHANGE OF PUNCHES. 

DAT GERMAN :mark: Shit, this is even more epic than I remember. Just when I think it's almost over, the Neutralizer counter happens, then the CANADIAN DESTROYER which looks incredible. This is after 20+ minutes, mind you. ZAYN hulking up for one last chance at RESPECT, much to the delight of the crowd. Yet another THIS IS AWESOME chant. Zayn still selling the leg.  SWISS DEATH. KICKOUT AT 1!!!!! :lmao FUCK :mark:

Cesaro is fucking furious as can be expected, so he charges up for a fucking ridiculous spinning uppercut that nearly makes Zayn do a backflip. A JUMPING Neutralizer and it's over. The embrace at the end, with Zayn looking like he's in tears, yet at the same time overjoyed because he got what he came for (Cesaro's respect) says it all. Amazing. How do you top this?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ok will watch it then Brye 

Rock/Angle NWO 01 is awful btw :kobe3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> You've been saying that for hours just watch the damn thing already!


Well, now I have! 

★★★★½ for an incredible match and current MOTY. The numerous nearfalls towards the end were just :mark: and ZAYN's performance in particular really had an impact on me. Can't wait for him to get called up to the main roster to see what he's capable of against other top wrestlers there.

EDIT: TLK summarized everything that can be said about this match. And forgot to mention Regal's commentary. I wish he would do commentary on Raw; SD & PPVs. He actually calls the fucking moves for a change.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Oh yea btw about Cesaro because what is better than talking about him in the world of pro wrestling, everyone loves his swing but the running upper cut to the corner is pure BEAUTY



Indeed it is, as is Zayns Helluva Kick, that running boot in the corner. ****1/4 is a good rating I'm surprised you aren't higher on it though. I think it topped Shield/Wyatt's and is my new consensus MotY. Such a beautiful match. I think it smokes their excellent 2/3 falls, and it's much more wwe main event style oriented than any match ive seen from them.


Cal- you really gotta rewatch the Taker/Mankind PPV feud whenever you get the time. I just finished watching them all, man do all the matches hold up. Still my favorite feud of all time.

KotR 1996: ****1/2
Boiler Room Brawl: ****
Buried Alive: ****
Survivor Series 1996: ***1/2 (Takers all black leather ring gear :mark
Revenge of the Taker: ****1/2
Hell in a Cell: ****1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit, awesome write up TLK.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive only seen the 2/3 falls once, will indeed re-watch it, ehh I think I still have the 6 man tag as MOTY but it is perfectly understand able to go either way. I will definitely check out that Emma/Paige match as well

That Zayn countering the suplex into a roll up spot may be the greatest thing Ive ever seen no hyperbole. Still salivating at the leg work in there, yea ****1/2 seems right


Edit: Awesome write up Greg


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Zahn/Cesaro **** ( better than the 2/3 falls match)
Emma/Paige **
Neville/Bo ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Indeed it is, as is Zayns Helluva Kick, that running boot in the corner. ****1/4 is a good rating I'm surprised you aren't higher on it though. I think it topped Shield/Wyatt's and is my new consensus MotY. Such a beautiful match. I think it smokes their excellent 2/3 falls, and it's much more wwe main event style oriented than any match ive seen from them.
> 
> 
> Cal- you really gotta rewatch the Taker/Mankind PPV feud whenever you get the time. I just finished watching them all, man do all the matches hold up. Still my favorite feud of all time.
> ...


Watched the KOTR 96 match the other day, then got distracted by BIG SHOW/SHEAMUS 2012 matches .



> ORGASM. I just had one. Watched Undertaker/Mankind KOTR 96
> 
> Still an incredible fucking SLUGFEST between 2 elite brawlers in WWE history. So great from the very start, with Undertaker using the fact the lights go out for his entrance to allow him to sneak up behind Mankind and fly off the ropes with a clothesline :mark:. THE UNDERTAKER needed to CHEAT to gain the upperhand on his opponent at the START of a match. That alone puts Mankind more over than most people get "put over" by winning a title these days. Tremendous punches by Undertaker, and some great fucking brawling in general from both. Everything looks nasty. Mankind bumps like a madman. Undertaker loses TO THE MANDIBLE CLAW. :mark:


I'd throw ****1/4 at it. I might attempt the BRB match now. Maybe. Possible. I DON'T WANNA .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I need to rewatch the Boiler Room Brawl too because I kinda thought it sucked the last time I watched it (four years ago). Maybe there's a little Cal in me. Now how do I summon that Cal smiley?

Finally watched NXT Arrival. Best comparison I can think of for this great show is CotC 1. Crazy how the WWE has two of the best babyfaces in the world in their developmental system. And then another one who just so happens to be the most over wrestler in 14 years.

EDIT: There we go


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal doesn't wanna watch an Undertaker match?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Jaxx (Aug 11, 2010)

Not sure where else to ask this but does anyone know of a book, DVD or anything that chronicles the life of the Macho Man. I've been looking around but can't find anything noteworthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Principino said:


> Not sure where else to ask this but does anyone know of a book, DVD or anything that chronicles the life of the Macho Man. I've been looking around but can't find anything noteworthy.


I think think there is anything. Closest you'll likely get is a Lanny Pofo shoot when he talks about his brother.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I started watching Undertaker/Mankind PPV series the other day. ****1/4 for KOTR 96. Now for the SummerSlam Boiler Room Brawl...

Fuck me this STILL sucks. Aside from the crazy ladder bump, EVERYTHING that happens in this match while they are in the boiler room is down right terrible. Only when they both get out does this thing start to resemble anything watchable. Some fun as they battle backstage, then it picks up once they get to the ring. :lmao at the having TV's on each side of the ring for fans to watch the stuff inside the boiler room. Talk about shite :lmao. PILEDRIVER ON THE CONCRETE. MANKIND WITH A BACK BUMP OFF THE APRON TO THE CONCRETE :mark:. PAUL BEARER TURNS ON UNDERTAKER . PAUL BEARER BEATS DOWN THE UNDERTAKER!!! Mankind wins. I don't ever want to sit through this again. *.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Anything worth watching on this week's Smackdown, as in, a match *** or more?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

You can watch Dolph lose again. That's always fun.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

**** for Zayn/Cesaro IV.

I'll put Cena/Cesaro over it and nothing trumps Shield/Wyatts for the year so far imo.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Reached Wrestlemania 2000 with Jericho and damn, he's had no ***1/2+ match so far in his WWF career. Expected the Angle/Benoit/Jericho match to be better. Dunno how the rest of 2000 but I expect things to get better in 2001.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch his matches with Benoit starting at I think BL 2000


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Random network stuff 

Punk/Taker WM 29 ****1/2
Shield/Team Hell No & Ryback TLC 12 ****1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I thought Cesaro/Zayn was a damn near perfect match. Had everything.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Watch his matches with Benoit starting at I think BL 2000


Yup, just looking at his PPV opponents show it's going to get better. He was in a Triple Threat match with Chyna and Holly in the Rumble :lmao :lmao

I'm trying to watch every match of his I can find chronologically, though. http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/chris-jericho-296.html?year=2000&pg=2 really helps.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just grabbed the NXT PPV, gotta see Zayn/Cesaro tomorrow.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Does anyone have a link to the Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match? I want to watch that before I watch the most recent one. Thanks!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sami.Zayn.vs.Antonio.Cesaro.2.Out.Of.3.Falls.Match.720p.(from 2013-08-21.NXT)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5d7Frtu679mEs4LWFA (Private)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks, I appreciate it! Know what I'll be watching tomorrow, lol...


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Zayn/Cesaro IV :wall

Just a great match, I'll go as far as to call it their best encounter. Cesaro demonstrating his power and aggressiveness by working on Zayn's leg and Zayn playing the sympathetic babyface to perfection by selling the knee, the uppercuts, and exuding a never-say-die attitude was amazing. Great back and forth action showing how well these two know each other from past encounters was a nice touch from these two beasts in the ring. Matches like these are why I love professional wrestling. So far, it's my MOTY. Can't wait for Zayn to be on the main roster. (Y)

My personal rankings for their encounters:

Zayn/Cesaro I - ***1/2
Zayn/Cesaro II - ***3/4
Zayn/Cesaro III - ****1/4
Zayn/Cesaro IV - ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Anything special on SD I should know about or has the streak ended ?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Love Heyman's promo from ONS '05. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro/Zayn NXT Arrival... just watched. TBH, part of me didn't want to believe the hype... but what a fucking awesome match that was. Easily second best of the year for me (behind Wyatts/Shield). Pace was great, awesome near-falls, Cesaro beasts it as always, and I got a great first impression of Zayn.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Cesaro/Zayn NXT Arrival... just watched. TBH, part of me didn't want to believe the hype... but what a fucking awesome match that was. Easily second best of the year for me (behind Wyatts/Shield). Pace was great, awesome near-falls, Cesaro beasts it as always, and I got a great first impression of Zayn.


You haven't seen the 2/3 falls from back in August?! Go and watch that immediately if you have the time, then if you have more time watch the Arrival match again. They do some fabulous call backs to that 2/3 falls match at Arrival but throw some twists and turns your way, I love when wrestlers do that. Bret Hart and Curt Hennig were masters of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watch all their matches in order tbh, or at least match 2 before match 3 (2/3 falls), because the finish to match 2 plays wonderfully into the 2/3 falls at one point that got me :mark: when I saw it.

Officially decided on ***** for Cesaro/Zayn IV. First ***** match since Taker/HBK WM 26 in 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal loved a Zayn match more than I. Never thought I'd see the day. All of this stands on what his thoughts were regarding the Shield vs Wyatts match, that is. :calsmiley

Ladder match is gonna be an underrated match on year's end. Not that it was necessarily GREAT or anything, but still really good & they made me happy to see a Ladder match where a ladder was used to climb & win, not be some random object where every move had to be used involving it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What are YOUR thoughts on Cesaro/Zayn Mr Cody?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Hey guys what's y'all top ten PPV's from last decade?

Doing some research


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brilliance, near perfection w/o being perfect or some kind of shit worded like that. Showed how tremendous both are at their craft. Zayn being the babyface to end all babyfaces, etc. Only thing I wasn't on board w/was the result. Zayn should have got the W. You'd think after all the losses he'd finally get his. Guess not.

Not the best match from WWE this year either. As I felt Shield vs Wyatts trumped it. Only b/c that match was perfection that I'm still trying to recover from.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Brilliance, near perfection w/o being perfect or some kind of shit worded like that. Showed how tremendous both are at their craft. Zayn being the babyface to end all babyfaces, etc. Only thing I wasn't on board w/was the result. Zayn should have got the W. You'd think after all the losses he'd finally get his. Guess not.
> 
> Not the best match from WWE this year either. As I felt Shield vs Wyatts trumped it. Only b/c that match was perfection that I'm still trying to recover from.


Well HOPEFULLY they could give Zayn his big win over Cesaro in maybe a PPV match or something when he finally gets called up to the main roster. Would be :mark: if they could continue their series on the main shows.

My top 3 so far for the year:

Cesaro Vs Sami Zayn - NXT Arrival 27.02.2014 - *****
The Shield Vs The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber 23.02.2014 - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan Vs Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble 26.01.2014 - ****1/4

Haven't really rated anything else bar RR and EC shows that I rambled on so fuck knows exactly what my top 5 or anything else would look like atm.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fingers crossed. I'd kill for it, but we all know Cesaro is en route to be babyface right now. Another match between them would kill it & work while both were babyface, but considering the hug afterwards, I think it may be squashed for good. 

Replace 1 & 2 and that's my top three. Cena vs Cesaro at #4 _(hard to believe it's at FOURTH place now)_ & Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans earning the last slot for top five. Top ten is pretty stacked itself w/that Danielson vs Orton match I loved right behind all these among some others including Shield & SHEAMUS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CESARO/Cena is probably my #4 too tbh.

Watching SD, opening match has CESARO in it and he makes me :mark: again:



Spoiler: CESARO ON SMACKDOWN



Deadlift Suplex to Big E!!!!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

It has been a great two months in the ring for sure


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For 2014 matches I'd go:

1. Cesaro vs Zayn
2. Shield vs Wyatts
3. Cena vs Cesaro
4. Elimination Chamber
5. Orton vs Bryan

Need to rewatch Bryan vs Wyatt and skipped Smackdown before EC which means I haven't seen Sheamus/Christian yet. This should be a great year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Time for the Smackdown.



Spoiler: in case it ain't aired in US yet



Show starts with HENRY and Big E Vs Swagger and CESARO. :mark: that fucking deadlift suplex to BIG E :mark:. I WANT CESARO'S BABIES. Short match, but great the entire time. POWER spots from well, everyone lol, and more teasing RA breakup. Cesaro gets the pin on Henry. Fun.

Batista comes out looking like the biggest douchebag possible. So his normal self basically. Turns heel because WWE basically had NO CHOICE :lmao. He does a fine job with the promo and coming across as a heel and guess what? I'M NOT ON THE BATISTA BANDWAGON BECAUSE HE TURNED HEEL. Guy is still awful .

Sheamus Vs Del Rio? I'm scared . Oh my god they brought up the stolen car incident with Cole laughing about it thinking it was funny still. HE STOLE A FUCKING CARE YOU DUMB SHIT IT ISN'T FUNNY IT'S ILLEGAL. CHRISTIAN :mark:. Complete with sunglasses looking like a BOSS. He's on commentary :mark:. Sheamus is all SHEAMUS and stuff so yey, and Del Rio does a nice job going after the injured ribs of the Irishman, modifying his offence to injure that part of the body rather than the arm :mark:. Del Rio trying to fight out of the Cloverleaf was cool. Christian attacks Sheamus before he can make Rio tap and this is over. Actually thought it was really good, just wish it could have gone a little longer and had a finish. CHRISTIAN VS SHEAMUS seems like a lock for WM now :mark:. 

Batista Vs Ziggler :lmao. I ain't watching this crap.

Shield/Wyatt confrontation :mark:. HHH shows up to make the rematch for Raw. Tells Shield to stand down. Bray mocks them. BIG mistake. Bray backs down. Cannot wait for the rematch :mark:.

Dammit, got excited there. Thought we were getting a second Real Americans match. Instead they just replayed THE ENTIRE MATCH between Cesaro and Big E from Raw...

AJ Lee (  ) Vs some women. Skip.

:mark: IN TIME used for Undertaker/Lesnar video package :mark:. They should use that for every Undertaker video.

Kane & NAO Vs Bryan & Usos. 99% of this match was Usos and Outlaws. I skipped through it .


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I find it incredible that we are only entering march and yet to place wwe top 10 matches in no order, a feasable list could be Shield/Wyatts, Cesaro/Zayn, Cesaro/Cena, EC match, Wyatt/Bryan, Orton/Cesaro, Bryan/Cesaro I, Bryan/Orton raw stands with what would seem to be an automatic pencil in for Lesnar/Taker which would only leave one spot open even though that would only bring us to early april. Now obviously with the seemingly automatic solo run of Rollins post mania alongside the possible unleashing of Ambrosse and potential callup at some point for Zayn and maybe even Neville (though not sure bout Neville), this list will get shaken. Still though, in my opinion it would take nothing short of a collosal effort for anything topping the Shield/Wyatt war for MOTY, I don't see the first four matches on that list budging or assuming Lesnar/Taker is the versatile stiff classic I expect that match to be; I don't see that budging off either and that only takes us to april. We have been really treated as fans to see the best contests that have occured so far this year and if everything goes smoothly with so many possibilities, we could look at the final catalogue and find that the totality is right there for best 21st century in ring years with 2002/2003 if not 2001 (though 2001 comparison is a very strong outlier seeing how powerful the main event scene match quality was the whole year while also holding a very strong upper mid, thrilling, career launching tag matches and decent enough rest.

The purist and lover/long time studier of this craft in me feels like Ed Werder when Brett Favre reconsiders retirement. To use the beggining of a Bray Wyatt quote, "My soul smiles at just the thought" Cesaro is performing on such a high level right now implementing that versatile, expansive yet not fully tapped into power- based moveset and great conditioning/freak strength with great stortelling ability, good limb selling and very crowd pleasing match performances (particularly in big situations) that it is hard not to call him the clear and comfortable frontrunner for wwe worker of the year, but you can never count out Bryan's premium working ability and when Seth Rollins gets the green light, I have a feeling the 2014 wwe in ring performer of the year race will get interesting. In short I am very excited for the in ring product moving forward in the year. Only shame would be if things don't pan out, injuries or that the matches like Orton/Bryan or Bray/Bryan get buried under and forgotten because they occured earlier in the year 

I well understand the product from a general storyline especially booking decision standpoint is not high at all, hell we are about to run into an absolute logjam in the midcard or worse case scenerio an oversaturated main event scene with the deterioration of the tag division seemingly in place along with a dumb idea to unify the midcard belts rumored, but the best matchups have beenfantastic and only on the upswing this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CESARO has a match on Smackdown? Sold. Unless they stick him in w/shithead McGee again. Don't do this to me WWE. _(I like my approach to walk into SD this week w/o knowing any matches)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

it is will shithead mgee again, although I thought mondays was decent, nice back and forth action


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Taboo Tuesday 2004 review 

ANOTHER HBK/HHH MATCH? 

Match #1: Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho *

I absolutely love the match these two had at Backlash 2005, MOTN from a very fun show, hopefully this is just as good. I remember reading Jericho's book about this match that he had ZERO idea who he was going to face and reading his facial expressions here I believe him, HOLY FUCK at all the people you could have voted for, there was like 15 of them or some shit like that. Benjamin DA GOD won the vote, this should be a good match, I love these guys. Pretty shocked that Benjamin won, would think Batista would win, makes me think who really should have won the title at mania 21 . :mark: at the chops Jericho does, love his chops, almost as good as his buddy I Benoit. I just love watching Shelton work, hes in a similar pack with Tajiri that I could just pick up a random match of his and mark out or it. IDK why but I just enjoy nearly all his matches, fucking shame he never became a world champion. This match started fairly slow but it progressively got better as the match went along. Considering that Neither man knew they would be facing each other I'd say the match was great. It has nothing on the BL 2005 match which I have at ****1/4 but this is still great, awesome that Benjamin won the IC title too, because he would be champion until like June, having an awesome reign. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3

Match #2: Divas Battle Royal 
*
:ti, NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: Kane vs Snitsky 
*
Was gonna skip this but then I I was talked into it sort of. Sorry if the match is good and I almost skipped it, ITS NOT MY FAULT . OK I just put the last 2 sentances in their just so I could make fun of Snitsky, this dude was terrible and I haven’t liked their matches before but this is a steel chain match so why not try it out. Kane is avenging her unborn child in this match, Q sti though it wasn't this blokes fault. These two lugs battle over the chain, which seems like a strange weapon to use, would rather see the lead pipe TBH. Fun brawl so far, the no DQ stip makes this match much more enhoyable at least, neither of these guys specialize in equisite holds so it makes sense that they made this No DQ. Why did WWE think this guy was gonna be a good heel? He had like no mic skills and for the most part was no good in the ring, sounds a lot like Batista in 2014 TBH 8*D. This was an OK brawl, but I have no idea why it went 15 minutes long, especially when it had an extremely anticlumatic ending. Kane looked legit hurt at the end, was bleeding everywhere, maybe thats why it was such a shitty ending. But yeah this was OK at best and got WAY too much time, should have been about 5 minutes left. **1/2

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #4: Eugene vs Eric Bischoff 
*
NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: La resistance vs Chris Benoit 
*
God I fucking hate La resistance, their matches are ALWAYS boring, doesn’t matter if it’s with Benoit, Flair, whoever, they somehow put out a shitty match, expecting them to do it again this time. OK lets get this over with, even though I love Benoit I cannot see myself liking this match. Well this proves it, La resistance can do no right, this match was alright, but it was the longest match on the card for some strange reason, whoever booked this PPV must have been the dumbest POS of all time. Benoit and Edge of course carried the hell out of this and it, mainly Benoit though. Its not that I thought this was BAD, it was just very boring and bland up until the last few minutes. I feel like with La resistance they simply try to work as little exciting as possible so that when they finally work well in the last 90 seconds it makes the match feel special. IDK if that makes any sense but I was bored throughout this and I was confused why it was so long, needed to be about 10 minutes yet it was 17. Benoit deserves better and I'd rather see Edge doing something meaningful as he was good up until like 2009. **3/4

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #6: Carmella vs Christy Hemme *

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #6: HHH vs HBK 
*
Why the fans voted for this boggles my mind, why would anyone want to vote for an injured man in a match we have seen a billion times? Would have preferred Edge over HBK in this scenario. Well because HBK is injured this will be bad, that is to be expected by me at this point it seems. HBK is clearly injured though hes probably overselling it a little as he was probably still cleared to wrestle. I assume this will be kept relatively short since its not the main event and HBK is hurt. really standard match to start out, HHH is doing basically all of the offense, which is no surprise I guess consideirng Shawn cant do much. Boring match is boring, might be the worst one of their series, maybe even worse than the 2/3 falls match simply because the 2/3 falls match had a short portion that I enjoyed. When 90 percent of the offense is done by one person in the match I find myself geetting drawn out of the match very quickly. Ending was stupidly overbooked, seems to be the theme, but this wasn't as bad the Vengeance 2004 overbooking, but at least that match was good. So yeah didn't like this at all, worse than these two normal match, maybe their worst ever. The crowd was somehow into it, but the crowd is stupid, I learned that long ago. *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match # 7: Ric Flair vs Randy Orton* 

About fucking time we get to this match, this whole PPV has been shite besides the opener but apparently this match is pretty good. When I looked at the card for this match I saw that it only gets like 10 minutes or so, which is pretty unfortunate but its getting late and im not really in the mood to watch a 60 minute saga of wrestling holds, a 10 minute cage match is just what im in the mood for. Randy gets busted open early and this match is such a change of pace from the rest of this show, meaning that it is actually an enjoyable match. Flair somehow had 2 GOAT cage matches at both Taboo Tuesday shows, though I would have to say that the HHH match is better but that might be the best WWE cage match of all time. This match gets really bloody, both Orton and Flair are both covered in blood by the end of the match. This was an awesome match and I'm glad Randy went over as he got buried by haitch last month of UF. Randy Orton in 2004 was great, and this match was more evidence of that. This match rocked and was a WAR, an extremely hard fought affair, amazing. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 8 

Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX ( 20)
4: No mercy(10.5)
5: Bad Blood (12)
6: Summerslam (11.5)
7: Unforgiven (10) 
8: Judgment day (9.5) 
9: Vengeance (8.5)
10: Taboo Tuesday 
11: Royal Rumble (8)
12: The Bash (7)
*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was hoping the main event would have been shat on so that review could have been something I disagreed w/100%.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

How does the tag titles match not get a DUD or *

La Resistance is so atrocious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched the chamber match from last week. Holds up pretty well but there is some flaws. Four stars is what I'd rate it and it'd probably rank as the 3rd or 4th best chamber match of all time. Everybody was excellent in it but I wasn't a fan of some of the booking. Too many eliminations happened in quick succession and there wasn't enough action between the final three as they overbooked the shit out of that portion with Wyatts and Kane showing up. Plus the pod spots were a little overdone. I liked the use of it as cover for steel bumps and Sheamus brogue kicking Orton through one was totally badass, but it lost what made it special after being done three or four times. Christian and Sheamus, in particular, put in some serious work here. Bryan kind of no sold the shoulder but to be fair, it didn't really come into play or get worked on very much after Christian targeting it mid-match. And the right man won in the end as Orton finally ended his losing streak. :mark:



William Murderface said:


> How does the tag titles match not get a DUD or *
> 
> La Resistance is so atrocious.


Because BENOIT. At least that's what I wanna think.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still don't understand how HHH and HBK were capable of sucking in a match with a simple story in place. Somehow HBK still manage to sell very poorly even though he was legit injured. Actually forget very poorly. It was well below the Sarkodie-Mensah scale. And La Resistance :lmao

:lmao The way Batista enunciates words is so cringeworthy. At least he's embracing the hate. Dude looks so much happier as a heel. Del Rio/Sheamus was pretty good, as was the Henry/Big E vs. RA match. Main event was fun too. Batista still sucks. Smackdown however hasn't sucked since the days of Sheamus as champion. They're still on a great role. And Christian on commentary :mark:.

Smitty, why is No Mercy at #4 on your list?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit didn't do anything in it. Being a mark has its limits.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Benoit didn't do anything in it. Being a mark has its limits.


For the last time, please rewatch Muta/Chono from Starrcade 92 and be prepared to shit on it. Take off your mark glasses and punish yourself.

While we're at it, we are in agreement that Dr. Death Steve Williams is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever right? Take him out of Japan and he was boring as shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the WWE Network wasn't awful I'd totally watch it atm.

but besides, Muta gets shit on too much for his showman style opposed to any "in ring" work needed for a lot of people. It can be a good match, meanwhile I'm alone in thinking so. A la yourself w/Hogan vs Flair. It's a two way street, pal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wasn't being serious when I said that.

Regarding Smackdown, gotta watch it tomorrow. Saw a snippet of Batista's heel promo and it was good. Hopefully we get some of his 2010 personality back because he was more entertaining than he's ever been at any point in his career.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I wasn't being serious when I said that.
> 
> Regarding Smackdown, gotta watch it tomorrow. Saw a snippet of Batista's heel promo and it was good. Hopefully we get some of his 2010 personality back because he was more entertaining than he's ever been at any point in his career.


Him going heel will not help his ring work or cardio so who really gives a crap if he's heel or face, the guy is gonna suck regardless.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fair enough. But the more he wrestles, the better ring shape he'll be in. And with the amount of great in-ring talent at the moment, I'm sure we'll have some good matches involving him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:ti


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> If the WWE Network wasn't awful I'd totally watch it atm.
> 
> but besides, Muta gets shit on too much for his showman style opposed to any "in ring" work needed for a lot of people. It can be a good match, meanwhile I'm alone in thinking so. A la yourself w/Hogan vs Flair. It's a two way street, pal.


I really like Muta, but those two on that night didn't even bother to wrestle a good match. Bill Watts told both Muta and Chono not to try very hard in that match so they won't upstage the advertised main events. I agree with you completely about Muta regardless. Shit, he and Liger were my gateway to NJPW. But that match was nothing like their G-1 Climax bout. Just like how Chono/Rude at Halloween Havoc was shit and their NJPW match was glorious. Only real flaws with 1992 WCW anyways; Bill Watts' racism.

Muta's other two matches that night were good. The tag match was great and Battlebowl was fun.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Fair enough. But the more he wrestles, the better ring shape he'll be in. And with the amount of great in-ring talent at the moment, I'm sure we'll have some good matches involving him.


He is not gonna get nay better dude, he is just a less popular Rock :lol :lol :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

William Murderface said:


> He is not gonna get nay better dude, he is just a less popular Rock :lol :lol :lol


TBF, I thought Rock/Cena I was good, although about 8-10 minutes too long. I doubt Batista would be able to put on a 30 minute match without exploding.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll def check it again for the fun of it. Only not to hate the match _(I think it's "Good" but nothing more)_ b/c that'll be a bummer. It's happened though. I remember as a youth I thought Savage vs Crush from WM X was AWESOME. Oh my science, children are idiots. Horrendous match.

Muta gets too much flack from some, but it's just part of the territory. As is poor chemistry one night; real good chemistry the other. Even Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio fell victim to it. The nature of the beast in pro rasslin for some.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thankfully the nature of that beast never caught on to Vader and Sting. Was Savage/Crush the match with the modified Texas Death match rule? I remember something about it being silly. I had that same feeling about Rock N' Sock vs. New Age Outlaws at Armageddon 99. Remember loving it as a kid the same way I love Punk/Bryan vs. Wyatts and DX/Legacy SS 09, but wow. Billy Gunn and Road Dogg didn't know what the hell they were doing. Not that they ever did in the ring.

What exactly is the reason why Muta gets hate? In the other forum I frequent (PWonly), the criticism seems to be that Muta doesn't have much in-ring charisma. Well that just sounds like "bollocks", as our friends overseas would say.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been watching this daily for a couple of weeks now. Probably my new favorite match atm. :lol



William Murderface said:


> He is not gonna get nay better dude, he is just a less popular Rock :lol :lol :lol


He's not going away so might as well be optimistic because he has proven in the past that he CAN be decent enough.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This isn't the second half of the Ruthless Aggression Era. Just being "decent enough" is not good enough.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thankfully the nature of that beast never caught on to Vader and Sting. Was Savage/Crush the match with the modified Texas Death match rule? I remember something about it being silly. I had that same feeling about Rock N' Sock vs. New Age Outlaws at Armageddon 99. Remember loving it as a kid the same way I love Punk/Bryan vs. Wyatts and DX/Legacy SS 09, but wow. Billy Gunn and Road Dogg didn't know what the hell they were doing. Not that they ever did in the ring.
> 
> What exactly is the reason why Muta gets hate? In the other forum I frequent (PWonly), the criticism seems to be that Muta doesn't have much in-ring charisma. Well that just sounds like "bollocks", as our friends overseas would say.


Yeah, they made it Falls Count Anywhere, but you could only pin outside the ring. Following that the man who got the pin had to enter the ring and then there was a ten count for the guy left outside the ring; thus if he didn't make it to the ring before ten, he lost. What a confusing mountain of garbage. :lmao

I've seen that tag match many times, but remember only one specific element b/c it's so forgettable. Billy tries to take off his shirt mid-match and Rock starts punching him while it's over his face. JR insults Billy for doing it. That show is bleurg.

Honestly, I have no idea. If it would be something like no in ring charisma, then those saying it would have to maybe only try it w/his stuff as Mutoh, not under the Muta character. All he is while in character IS charisma. I'm not saying he doesn't have any when he's just himself, but the notion of using it _(it = the claim of he lacks the charisma))_ entirely is something I can't understand the opinion on.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

that air on the chokeslam though

its like judgement day 2000 all over again


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Imagine the sick bump or two in store for the match. Gonna rule the world.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> He's not going away so might as well be optimistic because he has proven in the past that he CAN be decent enough.


Yeah good luck with that :ti


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

***** for Zayn/Cesaro, maybe MOTD , will rewatch Punk/Cena MITB later to confirm


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Just watched Zayn/Cesaro - was great as expected. Nice story, excellent crowd and commentary. Thought Zayn oversold a bit, Cesaro could be a little better in the face and body language, and a couple other gripes, but meh. I'm gonna have to rewatch Bray/Wyatt to see which I prefer (actually haven't seen it since RR). Nice MOTY lineup, considering it just became March less than five hours ago here. I got:

DB/Wyatt
AC/Zayn
AC/Cena
Shield/Wyatts
DB/Orton


Revenge of the indies tho Nothing there is below ***3/4 for me.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I feel like I'm the only person who thinks very highly of Christian/Sheamus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone got a link to Cena vs Cesaro?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

By the way, I've updated my 2014 MOTY list with some watches and rewatches:



> (****3/4)
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
> 
> (****1/2)
> ...


Oh and by the way: LONG LIVE CESARO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks very much.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Thoughts on Taker vs Big Show CS 2008 Last Man Standing?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh and, for those wondering wheater or not should they watch, Batista/Ziggler from SD isn't that much of good, but still smokes every Del Rio match for starters. Sheamus/ADR speaking of him was fun too, as was the Main Event.

Taker/Show LMS is their best match together imo. Hard-fought strikefest with a lot of great suspense and use of the LMS-style tease spots.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Thoughts on Taker vs Big Show CS 2008 Last Man Standing?


It's pretty good. Around the *** range. It's fun to watch two huge guys wail on each other every now and again, and you could obviously do far worse than this match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Around ***3/4-**** for Taker/Show CS 08. Awesome match :mark:. 2 big bastards caving each other's face in. No Mercy is slightly better though :mark:.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Two events, one of surprisingly good quality and another of surprisingly humble quality.

Great American Bash '90

Midnight Express vs Southern Boys *****
Steiners vs Freebirds ***1/2
Junkyard Dog/Paul Orndorff/Gigante vs the Horsemen ***1/4
Lex Luger vs Mean Mark **
Rock n Roll Express vs Doom ***1/4
Sting vs Flair ***

Enjoyed the atmosphere in Luger/'Taker match and the 6 man tag. Arn Anderson's antics were of the level of classic. Thought RnR/Doom was nothing outside of just a good match, which is a shame because Morton playing from underneath tends to be the making of a great match everytime.

Halloween Havoc '90

Ricky Morton & Tommy Rich vs Midnight Express ***
Renegade Warriors vs Freebirds *
Steiners vs Nasty Boys ***
Doom vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson ***1/2
Lex Luger vs Stan Hansen **
Sting vs Sid Vicious **

Nothing really to state here. Other than I was pretty surprised at Sid's popularity. Guy had the 'it' factor around this time period. And that I would enjoy watching the Steiners/Nastys hammer each other for 15 minutes with weapons.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Will the new Dark Match ( yet-to-be-released) from WWE also include house-show matches? Maybe then we could finally see the famous Rock vs Brock Match from Miami 2003.

Also do House-Show matches even get filmed by the WWE?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

<3 the network. I keep it on for background noise when I'm browsing the net and now Zayn/Cesaro is on again, so watching it for the 3rd time . :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Funnyfaces to reply to your comment no mercy is #4 on my list because I liked: 

Kidmon/London

the tag titles match 

Angle/show 

Taker/JBL

I thought it was a pretty fun show

EDIT: Oh shit just realized it is out of order, here's what they really are 

*Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1:Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX ( 20)
4: Bad Blood (12)
5: Summerslam (11.5)
6: No mercy(10.5)
7: Unforgiven (10) 
8: Judgment day (9.5) 
9: Vengeance (8.5)
10: Taboo Tuesday(8) 
11: Royal Rumble (8)
12: The GREAT AMERICAN Bash (7)
*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Desecrated said:


> Midnight Express vs Southern Boys *****


:mark:

Well, time to continue my Undertaker/Foley PPV series with BURIED ALIVE :mark:. And I'd best download their Survivor Series match because I don't think it's ever been released on DVD/Bluray aside from actual SVS DVD's, right? That's shite because I own all their others on DVD and getting hold of old SVS events on DVD over here means paying insane prices because they are OOP (thanks fremantle you cunts...).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The SVS anthology volume 2 has 1996 on it, but I'm pretty sure that will be loaded with edits


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So it's only available on SURVIVOR SERIES DVD'S which is exactly what I said. So your post was pointless :side: .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I thought you meant like the original DVDS, and I didn't know that the anthology ones are OOP :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

EVERY DVD before like, mid-2012 is OOP over here.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That sucks, I think ones from like 2008 are still in production, except for WM 24 which is why when I was collecting DVDS I never got my hands on that one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know what I actually agree w/ Cody on the Cesaro/Zayn match. The winner took away a bit for me, yea I know you need to build Cesaro up and he currently has all the momentum on his side, and zayn is still development, but this was their 4th match together and Cesaro has won most. Also if you listen to Regal during the match, he keeps playing up the matche's importance to Zayn, career making and it would be such a crushing lost, IMO should at least had like a roll up or Zayn hits his finisher quickly and bam ya know


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All of these DVD's WOULD still be available if WWE weren't retarded cunts and decided to leave SilverVision, their European Home Video partner of 20+ years and go with another company who don't have the back library and will likely just very, very slowly release a handful of the more popular DVD's over the next few years rather than making EVERYTHING. For example they just brought out the Punk Bluray and WM 26 Bluray and a couple of others. The odds of us getting much else for a while are extremely slim, and when they DO bring something else out, it'll only be a few select ones . And even if they DO release something I want, their prices are fucking insane. 2 disc Bluray sets for us are £22.99 aka $38.50. On wweshop.com, a brand new Bluray release (HBK WM set in this example) is $27.99 aka £16.70. Over £6 difference!!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :mark:
> 
> Well, time to continue my Undertaker/Foley PPV series with BURIED ALIVE :mark:. And I'd best download their Survivor Series match because I don't think it's ever been released on DVD/Bluray aside from actual SVS DVD's, right? That's shite because I own all their others on DVD and getting hold of old SVS events on DVD over here means paying insane prices because they are OOP (thanks fremantle you cunts...).



That match rules, starts off a bit slow but man does it ever pick up in the end. Do yourself a favor though, fast forward through the part where Taker gets buried and just hit play when they finish so you can see the awesome stuff that happens afterward (Takers hand popping up like a Zombie :mark. It's really boring watching Terry Gordy scoop dirt on top of Taker for 5-7 minutes like a Cat trying to cover it's poop with kitty litter.

You're still 100% wrong about the Boiler Room brawl sucking. It will never make sense to me how you with you're tastes in wrestling and die hard Taker fandom doesn't enjoy that match. The brawling in the boiler room was great, the brawling down the hallway was really great, and everything that happened once they got back into the arena was really REALLY great. It's held steady at **** for me every time I watch it.

Skins- I disagree with you and Cody, I don't think this loss hurts Zayn or hurts the match. The hug at the end sealed the deal, it was put over on commentary how Zayn was just fighting to gain Cesaros respect and he got it. Plus, there is talk of a NXT match at Mania this year, imagine how amazing it would be if they picked Cesaro and Zayn to have a match :mark: even if they don't, they can always return to this feud later, which I think is their plan seeing as how a baby face should never lose the final match in a feud, unless he's feuding with Triple H :vince3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nah Zayn should have def won the match, luckily for me the winner of match never takes the enjoyment out of a match for me and thats why I have Brock/Cena at *****

rewatching the Cesaro/Zayn match now, maybe it gets the full 5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looking forward to re-watching BA again. Gave it **** on last watch.

Will never get the BBR match. The action inside the BR just isn't good and I honestly cannot understand how anyone could think it is. The entire time in there is just Foley grunting over and over which gets annoying as fuck, and the two of them hitting each other with shitty bits of metal and wood and it all looks AWFUL. Once they escape it gets good but it's just too damn short once they get out .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

OK just rewatched Zayn/Cesaro and I can safely say that it is the best match since HBK/Taker WM 25. Since WM 25 I have had two 5 star matches, Punk/Cena MITB and Cena/Brock. This match somehow beats those two and I have a new ***** match. I loved everything about this when I watched it live but I really appreciated everything on the rewatch. I'm glad I rewatched it because when I watched it live it had a lagging problem. The last 10 minutes of this match is simply some of the greatest pro wrestling I have ever seen in my entire life. Near falls tend to be overdone sometimes but not in this case. Every nearfall was unique and not just a simple Finisher= nearfall, they did some things I did not know were physically possible in the world of pro wrestling. My 2 favorite moments were the uppercut when Zayn went through the turnbuckle, and when Zayn kicked out at ONE from the uppercut, especially after all of those nearfalls. I still wish Zayn had won but it really isn't the end of the world, I see both these guys as future world champions someday. 

so yeah, ***** all the way


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is One Night Only on the WWE network? Just finished that awesome show. Four ****+ matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guessing Foley/HHH, Vader/Owen, Taker/Bret and HBK/Bulldog are the 4?

Been a while since I've watched the full event, only remember Taker/Bret being in the ****+ range though with Vader/Owen coming close. Totally don't remember the other 2 matches. Got it on DVD anyway, along with the FAB FOUR thing which is an odd yet unique and pretty good DVD for WWF at the time .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Probably, I think I will check it out soon as I've only seen Bret vs Taker from that show


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

It is on the network.


----------



## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

Will you still be buying WWE DVDs now that WWE Network has all PPVs?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone think WWE will try and troll the fans Monday in regards to Punk? I can imagine a HBK/Bret moment when say, Batista, is in the ring cutting a promo, and Punk's music hits, bu he obviouslt doesn't come out, and Batista does a 'Gotya' to the crowd.

Surely they wont just ignore it all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone do me a sold and list the best 5-10 WCW PPV's? I'm looking for some good stuff to watch on the Network, I've obviously seen Beach Blast 1992 and Spring Stampede 1994 many many times but I need some more. Thanks


P.s.- I think Vader/Owen was MotN for ONO. One of Vaders best matches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Anyone think WWE will try and troll the fans Monday in regards to Punk? I can imagine a HBK/Bret moment when say, Batista, is in the ring cutting a promo, and Punk's music hits, bu he obviouslt doesn't come out, and Batista does a 'Gotya' to the crowd.
> 
> Surely they wont just ignore it all.




This IS obviously gonna happen if Punk doesn't show. They're gonna try everything to complete the most forced heel turn in wwe history. This will obviously generate the most heat Batista could ever get. 

I'm attending Monday, THEY BETTER NOT FUCK WITH TAKER! I certainly won't.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Can anyone do me a sold and list the best 5-10 WCW PPV's? I'm looking for some good stuff to watch on the Network, I've obviously seen Beach Blast 1992 and Spring Stampede 1994 many many times but I need some more. Thanks


Great American Bash 1989
Great American Bash 1990
Starrcade 1995
Starcade 1996
Spring Stampede 1999
Superbrawl II


Couple from '97, probably BATB/Slamboree.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I would bet a ton of money that they don't troll Punk if he's not on the show. There's a big difference between Shawn trolling Canada and WWE/Batista/BArrett/whoever trolling Chicago. They aren't even close to the same situation.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> Can anyone do me a sold and list the best 5-10 WCW PPV's? I'm looking for some good stuff to watch on the Network, I've obviously seen Beach Blast 1992 and Spring Stampede 1994 many many times but I need some more. Thanks


Can't really extend my memory into 1993-2001. GAB 89, 90. I'd also throw in Starrcade '88 (but if you like this, I'd throw in '87), Superbrawl 2. That's about what I remember stands out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I would bet a ton of money that they don't troll Punk if he's not on the show. There's a big difference between Shawn trolling Canada and WWE/Batista/BArrett/whoever trolling Chicago. They aren't even close to the same situation.


Yeah, my intention was not to compare the two situations, just the logic behind trying to replicate the incident.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh! Oh! I have SUCH AN ORIGINAL IDEA! Cult of Personality should hit...but Bad News Barrett should come out! I'm the first person to come up with this!™™™™™


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starrcade 1984

_Jr. Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Denny Brown vs. Mike Davis(c)*
It feel like someone must have seen a Juniors match in Japan, shown a tape of it to these guys, and told them to wrestle like that. There was no face or heel and they tried to do all of these high flying moves. The moves looked awkward more often than not and I feel like this didn't much more than those moves. Brown sold his back fairly well after taking a spill to the floor but the spill to the floor looked terrible. I don't want to say it was terrible, it was watchable at least, but it wasn't very good. Interesting to see what they were trying to do and how the failed at doing it at least.
***


*Brian Adidis vs. Mr. Ito*
If this was 4 minutes long I would be surprised. Adidis is the stereotypical babyface from the 80s an. Ito appears to be a pretty generic foreign heel. For a match early on the card I won't complain at all since it was short and I was interested. There isn't anything impressive but as far as short, throw away matches go it was good enough.
***


_Florida State Championship Match:_
*Mike Graham vs. Jesse Barr(c)*
Finally an undercard match that was good. I really enjoyed this one. Barr had some pretty basic offense but he just tried to keep the pressure on Graham. Graham basically just tried to lock in the Figure Four and you got the impression that he only needed to lock it in once in the middle of the ring to end the match. I wold have like Barr to have sold his leg some as Graham was mostly focused on it but I understand why he didn't as did seem that Graham was just going for a "knockout" blow of sorts. Good character work, better pacing than I expected, and an easy to follow story. You can't ask for anything more in an undercard match.
*****


*Assassin 1 and Buzz Tyler vs. The Zambuie Express *
Mercifully short but still terrible. They didn't do anything. It was just 4 fat unathletic guys having a terrible match. Also I'm pretty sure this was billed as an elimination match and I'm pretty sure there was only 1 pin. 
*DUD*


_Brass Knuckles Championship:_
The Ragin' Bull Manny Fernandez vs. Black Bart(c) w/JJ Dillion 
The big gimmick here is that they can throw full punches. Shockingly they just punched each other the whole time. I mean I guess it wasn't terrible but I have hard time seeing the real appeal in this. 
**1/2 *


_Loser Leaves Town Tuxedo Street Fight:_
*Paul Jones vs. Jimmy Valiant *
Is it really neccesarry to say anything else? Look at the match. 
*DUD*


_Some Championship Match:_
*Ron Bass(c) w/JJ Dillion vs. Dick Slater*
Slater was playing this type of face where he was supposed to be crazy. He didn't look or act that crazy. He just seemed really weird. His antics weren't that entertaining and Bass's control segment was rather uninspiring. The comeback was OK but the match ended as soon as things started to pick up. This is a mach that you will watch and forget as soon as the last bell rings. Avoids being terrible but that's about all I can say.
**1/2 *


*Keith Larson and Ole Anderson vs. Ivan and Nikita Koloff *
The beginning of the match was very strange. They were doing the whole USA vs. USSR feud and Anderson and Larson were the American team. When the match started though they worked the arm in typical Anderson fashion but it felt like the faces were running a control segment on the heels. Eventually the roles went back to normal but it was still a very strange way to start the match. Once they went back to the normal structure of the match it was pretty solid and even the strange face acting like heels part was well worked as I really did like how focused they wereon the arm. This was comfortably better than most of the other stuff on the undercard.
***1/4 *


_Television Championship Match:_
*Ricky Steamboat vs. Tully Blanchard(c)*
It's not as good as it looks on paper. Steamboat came in with injured ribs and Blanchard worked them non-stop. Steamboats reaction to the rib work was great. I loved the little things he did like position himself to keep the bad side away from Blanchard. The selling sort of stopped at the end which I wasn't a fan of. That was partially made up for the fact that for the first time in 2 Starcades there were a few actual false finishes. I'm struggling to say that it was great but I have no problem saying that it was good.
***3/4*


_United States Championship Match:_
*Wahoo McDaniels vs. Superstar Billy Graham*
The match lasted 4 minutes, they spent over half of the time pushing each other and it ended with a chop. Embarrassing. 
*DUD*


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Dusty Rhodes*
I can't believe they put these two in the main event and only had it last 12 minutes. I was really enjoying the match for the limited time that it got but even so there were still some issues I had with it. Dusty was in control early on and he locked Flair in the Figure Four. Flair got up with a clearly injured leg and Dusty never went back to it even though Flair sold it throughout the match. That was my big problem with the match (as well as the ending). What I really liked was you had that feeling where it looked like Flair didn't have a chance in hell of leaving with his title. It's so fun to see Flair in a position where there is just no way that he's going to pull this off and then he does go and pull it off. The match was really fun and if they had been a little smarter, gone a few minutes longer, and had a better ending it could have been so much better.
*****​
This show was pretty underwhelming. I was hoping Blanchard/Steamboat and Flair/Dusty would deliver and be great matches but they really didn't. They were good but that's all you can really sa about them.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Man, I'd be scared Chicago fans wouldn't just laugh that off..


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Couldn't be worse than HBK trolling Canada with Bret's music in 05.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

guys i have a great new idea, Punk's music should hit and jeff hardy comes out dressed as punk it will be the segment ever and jeff will then be put in the world title match at wrestlemania rofl rofl rofl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That would be AWESOME, with Jeff finally getting revenge for Punk coming out dressed as him in 2009!!! :mark:.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Couldn't be worse than HBK trolling Canada with Bret's music in 05.


:lol Loved it when he did that. One of HBK's best promos:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Buried Alive time :mark:. Took the wrapping off my IYH 11 & 12 Tagged Classics DVD to watch this! Why? Well it was either get off my arse and get the TOMBSTONE DVD... or stay in my chair and reach over to the IYH DVD. LAZINESS WINS EVERY TIME.

SMALL PACKAGE ROLLING DOWN THE DIRT MOUND~! Oh and something with both guys BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER too :mark:. I could watch these two punch each other for the rest of time. Shame they didn't do that in the BRB match . :mark: Undertaker's leaping lariat from the crowd over the guardrail to Mankind at ringside :mark:. Taken me an hour to get through about 10 minutes of this match because my brother phoned and talked to me about NOTHING for an hour. Seriously. Huh, someone in the front row looks like RODNEY of the Mean Street Posse. Ha. :lmao Mankind hugging and LICKING the steel chair after he smashes it over 'Taker's head might be the greatest thing ever. Love that they keep this one in the ring (or around ringside, at least lol) rather than spending a stupid amount of time at the grave site which limits what they can do (though when they DO go there they make it count... HIP TOSS from the top of the mound to the floor :mark: ). HOLY SHIT at that Piledriver counter. If you've seen the match recently or have a good memory then you know EXACTLY what I mean. Don't think I've ever seen anything like that before or after this match :mark:. CHOKESLAM INTO THE GRAVE. Taker wins :mark:. Then we get a bunch of people including TERRY FUCKING GORDY showing up to bury Undertaker in hopes of getting rid of him for good. AIN'T NO GRAVE CAN HOLD HIS BODY DOWN though!!!

Still such a terrific brawl. Just godly. ****1/2


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

has a buried alive match ever ended with anyone other than taker getting buried alive?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kiz said:


> has a buried alive match ever ended with anyone other than taker getting buried alive?


Yes. Undertaker/Show Vs Rock/Mankind on SD ended with Foley getting buried. BY TRIPLE H :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yes. Undertaker/Show Vs Rock/Mankind on SD ended with Foley getting buried. BY TRIPLE H :lmao.



I would love a gif of Triple H just shoveling dirt. The greatest gif of all time.

Buried Alive Taker/Mankind :mark: :mark: :mark:

Yes, that match called for the triple mark. If anyone can point to a feud that had a better story, better characters involved, better match quality and creative gimmicks that fit said characters, that benefitted both wrestlers to the degree that Taker/Mankind did, I'd love to see. For me it will always be the greatest feud in wrestling history. The average star rating of their 6 PPV matches at last watch was ****1/4. Ungodly.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

and then mankind just casually showed up next week like nothing happened?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably. Show also got decked in the back of the head with a Sledgehammer and I don't recall him going away for 6 months with a neck injury or concussion or anything.

Taker/Mankind SVS match time :mark:. I genuinely didn't even know about this match until about 2 years ago. Never got brought up or mentioned by anyone so is definitely something of a "lost match" from their series, which is INSANE when you think about it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I would love a gif of Triple H just shoveling dirt. The greatest gif of all time.
> 
> Buried Alive Taker/Mankind :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Yes, that match called for the triple mark. If anyone can point to a feud that had a better story, better characters involved, better match quality and creative gimmicks that fit said characters, that benefitted both wrestlers to the degree that Taker/Mankind did, I'd love to see. For me it will always be the greatest feud in wrestling history. The average star rating of their 6 PPV matches at last watch was ****1/4. Ungodly.


unk4 :cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Oh! Oh! I have SUCH AN ORIGINAL IDEA! Cult of Personality should hit...but Bad News Barrett should come out! I'm the first person to come up with this!™™™™™


 I liked the other idea with Batista coming out instead and shouting "DEAL WITH IT!" :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> I would love a gif of Triple H just shoveling dirt. The greatest gif of all time.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Does anyone have a link for the full match between Emma/Paige at Arrival? What's the general opinion on the match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't wait for the Chicago Raw to be over and done with so all this Punk nonsense is put to rest and his marks finally fuck off when he no-shows.

As cool as it would be for Batista to troll the crowd, I'd rather it doesn't happen because doing it will just bring us a million more "PUNK LEAVING IZ A WORK!!!!" threads and more denial from his die-hard marks.

That HBK promo from Montreal is legendary, though. :lol The ovation the ramp got was just :lmao.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Yeah the fans have been beyond annoying. "We should riot", yeah I'm sure security are threatened by that. It's always annoyed me when people chant stuff in a disrespectful way, if they don't like it. There's obviously the argument of you pay money so it should be okay but that isn't acceptable in the theatre so have some decorum, you vermin. Now it's obviously going to be wild in his hometown but these other random places shouldn't care, it's not like Punk was anything but lazy for months before he fucked off. I think Lesnar was his last instance of giving his all, his fans would do well to remember that. He's clearly not a professional guy, if he hated things then suck it up til July then fuck off.

I've always liked him prior to all this mind you.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I think it's pretty hilarious that anybody actually thinks fans will riot. Fans aren't going to do shit. If they want to do something, they should stop paying for tickets/watching the show.

I think it's especially funny when people say it would happen because the streak would end. Nobody cares that much except like 100 delusional UT marks that are in the basement watching so they can't do shit anyways.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alrighty the Survivor Series 96 match now. Still can't believe I didn't even KNOW about this match until a couple of years ago, never mind even seen it. LOL at Bearer being suspended above the ring in a cage. UNDERTAKER BATMAN~! The Undertaker - Gets buried alive 6 feet under ground, returns from the sky. BLACK LEATHER UNDERTAKER. Slightly disturbing lol . TARGETING THE MANDIBLE CLAW HAND :mark:. Love how these two can keep bringing out new spots for their matches. Each match seems to have Foley bringing out something from his arsenal that we probably hadn't seen from him in the WWF yet. :mark: head first into the guard rail. Brutal :mark:. Gotta love how the attack on the hand early on keeps coming back to help 'Taker, who escapes the Mandible Claw on 2 separate occasions. And then when Foley realises his hand is fucked, what does he do? LOAD IT UP WITH A WEAPON :mark:. TOMBSTONE. Awesome. A step down from previous matches, but fuck it's still better than most matches we see lol. ****.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it typical that people overrate the hell out of great stuff that happens nowadays? In particular, Shield/Wyatts and Cesaro/Zayn IV. Both incredible matches, no doubt, but boy even those two need a limit on the praising. Some called Shield/Wyatts "best WWE match in 20 fucking years", and now Cesaro/Zayn IV is being called out as the greatest singles match of the last decade, with the OP/guy behind that commenting that matches like Taker/HBK or Cena/Punk don't come close to Cesaro/Zayn. Fanboyism gone wild.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

etrbaby said:


> Does anyone have a link for the full match between Emma/Paige at Arrival? What's the general opinion on the match?


I don't have a link for it, sadly, but I think it's the best diva's match I've seen since Trish vs. Lita from Unforgiven 06. Absolutely amazing!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I would take Cesaro/Zayn over Cena/Punk and HBK/Taker WM 26 tbh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I found it more insane that someone *cough*Pyro*cough* claimed that Austin/HHH NWO 01 and Angle/Benoit RR 03 were better :lmao.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I want Jericho to appear at RAW at least :/


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> Is it typical that people overrate the hell out of great stuff that happens nowadays?


Only when they're IWC darlings. I rewatched both matches from this week, last night. They are great matches. Probably slightly overrated but whatever, it's not like WWE produces matches as good as these all that often.

I'd put a lot of matches over the Shield/Wyatts' match from the past 20 years. Not even the best Shield match (TLC 2012).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cesaro/Zayn >>> Cena/Punk. Wont agree on HBK/Taker from WM2*5*, though.



bigbuxxx said:


> I think it's pretty hilarious that anybody actually thinks fans will riot. Fans aren't going to do shit. If they want to do something, they should stop paying for tickets/watching the show.


Yeah, it amazes me how delusional some of the marks here are. To think they actually believe a riot will happen. :lmao

The only thing the crowd will do is chant the same ol' stupid shit and some boos. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I doubt that anything will top HBK/Taker WM 25 for a long time

Starting SVS 2004 now btw, looking forward to it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Matches of last 5 yrs better :

hbk/taker I
hbk/taker II
cena/punk
cena/brock
punk/brock

I also have the 6 man as MOTY still. I think the thing is its really hard to compare zayn/cesaro to wwe ppv main event matches IMO, its so unique


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i didnt enjoy undertaker vs shawn WM25 that much

there. i said it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

REVENGE OF THE MOTHERFUCKING UNDERTAKER time :mark:. Love Undertaker smashing Mankind's face in in different ways. Punching it, ring post and ring steps, and the steel guard rail too :mark:. MANKIND targeting the BURN on Undertaker's face is just :mark:. Someone is targeting a BURN in wrestling. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Crazy that the ref doesn't give a fuck and lets them do anything they want. Smash a glass jug over Undertaker's head? Sure! Steel chair to the face? Why not! Never get tired of referees running in fear of 'Taker either lol. Ref bump because... uhhh... they wanted to do even WORSE stuff than breaking glass over someone's head? STEEL STEPS TO THE FACE, SENDING MANKIND HEAD FUCKING FIRST THOUGHT A TABLE :mark:. I swear that might be my favourite bump EVER. The way the table just seems to create a hole for his head rather than shatter makes it all the more :mark:. Insane. A chokeslam (with a kick out!!!) and Tombstone later and The Undertaker retains his title. Glorious. Do people consider this the AE btw? Because if so it's probably THE definitive AE brawl. Probably the best crazy brawl since some crazy Slaughter match in the mid 80's tbh lol (WWF only). Aftermath with the fire is :lmao and :mark: at the same time. Undertaker just saying "fuck it" and clearly grabbing the flash paper and lighting it in Bearer's face is amazing lol. :lmao at multiple fans in the front row offering up lighters too :lmao. I'm in love with this match. ****3/4.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

what match is this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Mankind IYH14: Revenge of the Taker


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

odd. ive actually never heard of that PPV


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching TV and 'Ain't No Grave' was playing. Would be awesome if Taker used that as part of his entrance music again this year. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love that they used In Time again for a video package on SD :mark:. Not often WWE have a good taste in music but every now and then they get it right .

KOTR 98 HIAC, is that the only other Taker/Foley singles PPV match left now I've watched ROTT?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kiz said:


> odd. ive actually never heard of that PPV


The other big match on that show (Austin/Bret) is great too. Watch that PPV.

Chicago is GOAT and Punk is GOAT. No discussion. Now let's move on.

Gonna try to finish 1997 this week. Undertaker did one of the funniest things I've ever seen when he was put into a bodybag by DX, and then sat up in the bodybag :lmao. Hilarious image.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Unless they had some TV match in 98 or 99 I think so

rewatching Punks doc with a non-wrestling fan, interesting perspective


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Sitting up in the body bag was awesome. Probs my fav moment of their feud.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Love that they used In Time again for a video package on SD :mark:. Not often WWE have a good taste in music but every now and then they get it right .
> 
> KOTR 98 HIAC, is that the only other Taker/Foley singles PPV match left now I've watched ROTT?


I do have this comp if it helps your memory. 




Spoiler: Mankind vs Undertaker Comp



Keith_H's "History of Mankind vs. The Undertaker" DVD Compilation

Duration: 6 DVDs

VQ: VG/EX

DISC 1

1. Mankind vs. Bob Holly - Mankind's debut match - Raw 4/1/96

2. Justin Hawk Bradshaw vs. The Undertaker - Mankind attacks the Undertaker - Raw 4/1/96

3. Paul Bearer/Undertaker/Goldust Interview - Mankind comes out and puts out UT with the Mandible Claw - Raw 5/13/96

4. Paul Bearer/Undertaker Interview - Mankind comes out to attack Undertaker while he is in a casket - Raw 5/20/96

5. The Undertaker vs. Goldust (Casket Match) (Mankind runs in) – IYH: Beware of Dog 5/28/96

6. Mankind vs. The Undertaker – WWF KOTR 1996 6/23/96

7. The Undertaker vs. Goldust (Mankind runs in) - IYH: International Incident 7/21/96

8. 20 Man Battle Royal - (Mankind and UT are out early but continue to fight the entire time in the back) - Raw 8/5/96



DISC 2

9. Boiler Room Brawl: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Summerslam 1996 8/18/96

10. Paul Bearer/Mankind Interview - Raw 8/19/96

11. WWE Title Match: Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels (Undertaker attacks Mankind after the match) - IYH: Mind Games 1996 - 9/22/96

12. Buried Alive Match: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - IYH: Buried Alive 10/20/96

13. Mankind/Undertaker Interview - Raw 11/4/96



DISC 3

14. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Survivor Series 1996 11/17/96

15. Steve Austin vs. Mankind - (Executioner and Undertaker run in) - Raw 11/18/96

16. Mankind vs. Undertaker Hype Video – RAW 12/9/96

17. No DQ Match: Mankind vs. Undertaker - Raw 12/9/96

18. No DQ Match: Undertaker vs. The Executioner (Mankind runs in) – IYH: It’s Time 12/15/96

19. No DQ Match: Mankind and Faarooq vs. Ahmed Johnson and The Undertaker - Raw 2/3/97

20. Mankind Interview - Raw 3/10/97

21. Vader and Mankind vs. Sycho Sid and The Undertaker - Raw 3/10/97

22. Mankind Interview - Raw 3/24/97

23. Undertaker/Mankind/Paul Bearer Interview - Raw 3/24/97

24. Paul Bearer/Undertaker Interview- Mankind throws a fireball in the Undertaker's face - Raw 3/31/97

25. Mankind/Undertaker Interview - Raw 4/7/97



DISC 4

26. WWF Title Match: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - IYH: Revenge of the Taker 4/20/97

27. Mankind Interview - Raw 4/21/97

28. The Undertaker vs. Triple H - Mankind comes in and attempts to burn the Undertaker. Big brawl breaks out after the match - Raw 4/21/97

29. Triple H and Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind and The Undertaker - Where DX all began - Raw 8/18/97

30. Kane vs. Undertaker - Kane wins to become the number one with the help of Mankind. Mankind and Undertaker brawl. - Raw 6/1/98

31. Hell in a Cell: Mankind and Kane vs. Steve Austin and Undertaker - Raw 6/15/98

32. Hell in a Cell: Mankind vs. The Undertaker – WWF KOTR 1998 6/28/98

33. Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Mankind – (UT never comes to the ring. Kane turns on Mankind and wins the match but he pulls off his mask and it's the Undertaker) - Raw 7/6/98



DISC 5

34. The Undertaker and Steve Austin vs. Kane and Mankind - IYH: Fully Loaded 7/26/98

35. Mankind Interview – Heat 8/9/98

36. Mankind vs. Undertaker - Heat 8/9/98

37. Tag Team Title Match: New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock and D-Lo Brown vs. Kane and Mankind vs. Undertaker and Steve Austin - Raw 8/10/98

38. Vince/UT/Kane/Bearer/Austin Interview - UT and Kane are now united. They beat up Paul Bearer and Kane turns against Mankind - Raw 8/24/98

39. Mankind gets taken out in an ambulance/then leaves and heads back to the ring – Raw 8/24/98

40. Mankind Interview - Mankind turns face - Raw 8/24/98

41. Hell In A Cell: Kane vs. Mankind (Undertaker gets involved) - Raw 8/24/98

42. Mankind/Undertaker Interview – Raw 9/14/98

43. No DQ: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Raw 9/14/98

44. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Heat 12/6/98



DISC 6

45. WWF Title: Steve Austin vs. Kane vs. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - WWF Capital Carnage 12/6/98

46. The Rock and The Undertaker vs. Mankind and Steve Austin - Raw 12/7/98

47. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Raw 3/1/99

48. The Rock/Mankind Interview - Raw 8/30/99

49. Tag Team Title Match: Mankind and The Rock vs. The Undertaker and The Big Show - Raw 8/30/99

50. Buried Alive Match: The Undertaker and The Big Show vs. Mankind and The Rock - Smackdown! 9/9/99


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So KOTR 98 is indeed their last PPV match together (singles). Nice. I shall watch that later, though I probably could review it and slap on a rating without even watching it :lmao.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

taker always sat up in the bodybag

he did it in his matches with Warrior too


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Why does the network insist on airing Royal Rumble 2013 every single day? FFS, they could play ANY PPV, and they play a show that sucks monkey balls (and I know there's on demand but it's hard to choose something, alright?).


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Does anyone know where to watch the Jericho/Benoit match from Backlash 00 (or the whole event) on decent quality? Couldn't find any good video so far.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Download it from XWT, cant seem to find it anywhere else


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Does anyone know where to watch the Jericho/Benoit match from Backlash 00 (or the whole event) on decent quality? Couldn't find any good video so far.


Somebody ripped it off the WWE Network and put it up on XWT. Been DLing a few of those PPVs and it's looking sweet!

Can only imagine how great it'll be once they put up Raw and Smackdown shows.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*NXT Arrival*

Sami Zayn vs. Tony Cesaro

_Aaaand yes, this was great. It's really a testament to Zayn's immense talent when he manages to be almost as great in the underdog role as El Generico. Charisma, he has it, that X factor. But Tony Cesaro is even better, he possesses the XXX factor, dude's a beast, by far the greatest wrestler in the fed. His workovers are buckets of fun and intensity, when he's in control he honestly reminds me of the two all time greats - Stan Hansen and Tatsumi Fujinami. Hansen because of ruthlessness and the way he's constantly doing something to his opponents, tossing them around, punching them, stomping them, mauling them... Fujinami because of sick & slick holds that make people pay attention, because it reminds us that the main pillar of pro-graps is *LESS IS MORE*. Zayn's comebacks were engaging and awesome, and the finishing run was really exciting. Tony's stomp was disgustingly swell. Great freakin' match, but not better than the Elimination Chamber trio. Extremely close, but not quite there, despite the same rating. The same goes for their BOLA '11 match, I like it just a tiny bit more than this._

****1/2​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn (NXT Arrival) - ****1/2

Fucking near perfect for me, Zayn is such a great babyface. Some wesome spots in this one too, including the dive through the rope into an uppercut. I didn't want it to end. Give these two a fucking Iron Man stip please.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Download it from XWT, cant seem to find it anywhere else





Choke2Death said:


> Somebody ripped it off the WWE Network and put it up on XWT. Been DLing a few of those PPVs and it's looking sweet!
> 
> Can only imagine how great it'll be once they put up Raw and Smackdown shows.


Thanks a lot. Would rep if I could.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forgot to add, Regal on commentary. :mark:

"Zayn is a warrior of the canvas wars".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just re-watched it in HD because... well why the fuck not? 

Still epic, but the ***** rating just went down to ****3/4. Mainly because I totally forgot about Bryan/Punk OTL match and the fact I think that is ever so slightly better than this match, but I don't wanna throw the full 5 at that. So if I'm not giving the full 5 to a match I think better than this ain't no 5 star match . So now it's the best match since OTL 2012 . Still high praise and shizzle.

Time for Mankind/Taker HIAC and I'll be finished with their epic PPV series :mark:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So am I the only person who has it at the full 5 now


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep. STOP OVERRATING IT YOU CUNT!!!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Should prolly get back to SVS 2004 now


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIAC time :mark:. The last PPV match between these 2 (singles, at least. I think there might be a tag somewhere? I forget. Don't care anyway). It's from THE 1998 KING OF THE RING EVENT BTW. Just in case you weren't sure .

Had to get off my arse to watch this one. Not happy. Especially considering I collapsed in the kitchen earlier thanks to my cunty bastard knee. Thankfully my TOMBSTONE DVD is on the front row so I don't have to dig through rows of DVD's to get to it. Looking at the match listing to see which disc it was on reminded me just how GOAT this fucking DVD set is. Might very well have been the first superstar set I bought. I didn't really start "collecting" wrestling DVD's until around 07, but I bought this when I had my first job which will have been around 05 probably, and I think it came out in 04. Money WELL spent. THE MATCH. Starting out on top of the cell was just insane. GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, THEY'VE KILLED HIM! AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, HE IS BROKEN IN HALF!!!! I mentioned that their ROTT match might be the definitive AE type of brawl, well this is probably the definitive MOMENT from the AE. The fact it can still get a reaction out of me all these years later and the fact it's still talked about is a real testament to the kind of moment it is. Undertaker stood on top of the cell looking down on a broken Mankind is such an awesome visual. Still remember watching this after I bought the PPV on VHS in like 2000 lol. Strange that I don't want to even skip the part with Mankind being taken out on a stretcher lol. Even THAT is great to sit through. Seeing Undertaker still on top of the cell, JR and Lawler going apeshit on commentary, the fans losing their shit still, and then TERRY FUNK AND VINCE MCMAHON coming out showing their concern. OH SHIT FOLEY IS BACK UP!!! HE'S CLIMBING THE CAGE AND THIS THING IS GONNA CONTIN... CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE CELL. Oh well, so much for that. That's it, he's dead. Poor Undertaker, jumps down inside the cell from the top and OUCH, gotta feel for the guy as he has a broken ankle. I think Foley is hurt too... . FUNK GOT CHOKESLAMMED OUT OF HIS SHOES :lmao. 2 career defining moments for Foley and this match ISN'T OVER YET. Probably should have ended lol. Foley is MOUNTING AN OFFENCE. Insane lol. I like how he goes to pick up the steel steps, but his shoulder is probably out of it's socket so he drops them... and Undertaker picks them up and smashes them ON THE SHOULDER about 4 times. I like to think that 'Taker is being a good friend and trying to put the shoulder back into it's socket . SUICIDE DIVE INTO THE CELL :mark:. See, Undertaker is taking just as much damage in this :side:. Love how these two really haven't feuded in a year, hell they even teamed up a bit towards the end of 97 against DX, but now they are back on PPV and inside HIAC they are bringing back all that old HATE~! and they are right back to wanting to KILL each other. Kinda wish this had happened in 97 as it really would have been THE big end to their feud at the time, but things turned out extremely well regardless lol. Oh and guess what? AFTER THE TWO BIG BUMPS THERE IS STILL AROUND 10 MINUTES OF MATCH. So stop saying it's a 2 bump match, because it simply fucking isn't. They had a great fucking fight after the bumps. Still adore this match. ****1/2

King of the Ring 1996 - ****1/4
Boiler Room Brawl SummerSlam 1996 - *
Buried Alive IYH 11 1996 - ****1/2
Survivor Series 1996 - ****
Revenge of the 'Taker IYH 14 - ****3/4
Hell in a Cell King of the Ring 1998 - ****1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I never understood the criticism of that match being ''it wouldn't have been that good without the big bumps''. Well, no shit, but they happened and acting like they didn't or some carny crap is nonsense. It's like saying ''Flair v. Steamboat wouldn't have been as good without the great wrestling.'' 



Cactus Jack said:


> Can anyone do me a sold and list the best 5-10 WCW PPV's? I'm looking for some good stuff to watch on the Network, I've obviously seen Beach Blast 1992 and Spring Stampede 1994 many many times but I need some more. Thanks


Do they have Clash of the Champions? You should watch some of those.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Do they have Clash of the Champions? You should watch some of those.


I do want to make a 'Best Of COTC' list one day. I know WWE put a DVD/BD out.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Do they have Clash of the Champions? You should watch some of those.


They said they will add them soon with all of the SNME episodes too


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well guys, I made the GOAT gif during my 1997 watch. This is from 11/3/97 btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DAT Coke. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Forgot to add, Regal on commentary. :mark:
> 
> "Zayn is a warrior of the canvas wars".


Regal being on commentary was the definitive plus. He certainly added to the glory.



SKINS said:


> You know what I actually agree w/ Cody on the Cesaro/Zayn match. The winner took away a bit for me, yea I know you need to build Cesaro up and he currently has all the momentum on his side, and zayn is still development, but this was their 4th match together and Cesaro has won most. Also if you listen to Regal during the match, he keeps playing up the matche's importance to Zayn, career making and it would be such a crushing lost, IMO should at least had like a roll up or Zayn hits his finisher quickly and bam ya know


Wouldn't say it "took away" much or anything at all, but it was deflating b/c it felt like it was that time for the win. No bother. I'm coping & just overwhelmed to know how much WWE clearly likes Zayn to give him all this exposure right now. He was established as being someone to watch from his debut night. Big win evasion or not, I really couldn't be happier for what can lie on the horizon.

The roll up end would have been counterproductive, considering that's how Zayn won the first match vs Cesaro. I can't say they didn't do a terrific tease w/Zayn attempting to hit one more Yakuza kick to secure the W. Cesaro happened to unleash another furious uppercut to stop him dead in his tracks. Holy fuck what a tremendous match. Jesus christ. Would you believe me if I said that this isn't even their best? b/c it's a shade under what they produced in PWG circa 2011, imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Decided that I'm going to go through 1997 after I finish 04 PPVS(gonna try to get through SVS tonight and Armageddon tomorrow). Downloading a RAW 97 torrent now and then will probably do a PPV torrent after that. Looking forward to it as I've barely seen anything from 97 par the classics we all have seen. 

Dont think I'll be writing anything though, probably will just list the matches I like


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Wrestlemania I


*Tito Santana vs. The Executioner *
The Executioner cut a promo before the match saying he was going to go after Tito's leg. His plan didn't work very well. He got a few moves in on the leg but had no sustained offense. The pacing was good and that made the match a lot of fun to watch. 
****


*S.D. Jones vs. King Kong Bundy w/Jimmy Hart*
SQUASHED. I found it to be pretty amusing at least. Also I don't see how the match was actually 9 seconds like they claimed it was.
*1/4* *


*Matt Borne vs. Ricky Steamboat*
Similar to the opening match in that they didn't have much time but they worked quickly to make up for it. I wish I could say more but there wasn't really anything else to it. At least it was easy to watch.
****


*Brutus Beefcake w/Luscious Johnny vs. David Sammartino w/Bruno Samartino*
I've recently seen some high ratings getting thrown around for tht anything that really stood out. Brutus was the heel but he didn't act like that much of a heel. The pacing was solid but I couldn't shake the feeling that the crowd just wanted to see Bruno get in the is match. I can't say I can go that high on it. They had a solid back and forth match but there wasn't anything that really stands out. Taking into account what I know about the rest of the card this might end up being the MOTN. Post Watch Edit: Well it wasn't the MOTN but it was still one of the better matches on the card.
***1/4* 


_Intercontinental Championship:_
*Greg "The Hammer" Valentine(c) w/Jimmy Hart vs. The Junkyard Dog*
The last 30 seconds of the match were great as the crowd really came alive and you got the feeling that there might be a title change. The rest of the match just sort of happened, JYD seemed to be the stronger guy for most of the match as it just seemed like Valentine was doing whatever he could to hang on to the title. I guess at this point the IC title wasn't exactly the work horse title at this time since it was about 5 minutes long. For a short match it was pretty OK I guess.
****


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Mike Rotundo and Barry Windham(c) w/Lou Albano vs. The Iron Sheik and Nikoli Volkoff w/Freddy Blassie *
I liked this more than I was expecting to. It was your basic Southern Tag with the faces kicking ass early, some cheating, a control segment, and a hot tag. The pacing was good as they didn't have much time so they had no reason to keep things slow. The match was just fun. You had the heels that everyone in New York hated challenging against the All American team. It's one of the most basic and overdone stories that you see in wrestling but in this case it was an easy enough story to tell for a fun match. 
***1/2* 


_$15,000 Body Slam Challenge_
*Andre the Giant vs. Big John Stud w/Bobby Heenan*
A 5 minute match worked like a 30 minute match. I've heard that Andre used to do a lot more in the ring when he was younger than this but unfortunately this is the oldest Andre match that I think I've ever seen. It's just really slow, nobody takes a bump, and the big finish is when Andre gives a smaller guy a body slam to end the match. 
*1/2**


_Women's Championship Match:_
*Leilani Kai w/The Fabulous Moollah vs. Wendi Richter w/Cyndi Lauper*
Normally I don't mind the music edits at all but this one was just so stupid. Lauper is RIGHT THERE and instead of her song playing when they come to ring it was some generic music. They both appeared to be trained professional wrestlers; which is more than I can say about a lot of other Divas matches that I've seen. It still was pretty bad though. Also the promos from Richter and Lauper both before and after the match were hilariously bad.
*1/2**


*Hulk Hogan and Mr. T w/Jimmy Snuka vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper and "Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorf w/Bob Orton*
I found it to be a lot better than I expected. Piper and Orndorf worked their asses off here. They were always doing something or trying to do something. There was just blatant cheating from them and a total disregard for the rules. It really felt like they were willing to do anything to get the win. The start of the match was also really cool. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Piper was shooting on Mr. T when they first locked up because it looked so real with the way Piper just wouldn't let go of him. The heels worked a good control segment on Hogan before a hot tag. Mr. T also didn't destroy everyone either so that was good to see. The match was wild and chaotic as both managers got involved and you had Muhammad Ali throwing punches at guys in the ring. 
***3/4 *​

Well that was a bad show. There's no other way to say it. I honestly don't think there is a match on this card that I would say you need to go out of your way to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWF 1997 project? 

Good luck.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Whats that supposed to mean


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lots of shit wrestling. Which is why an event the likes of Canadian Stampede is so loved, b/c it's a great event from top to bottom.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Decided that I'm going to go through 1997 after I finish 04 PPVS(gonna try to get through SVS tonight and Armageddon tomorrow). Downloading a RAW 97 torrent now and then will probably do a PPV torrent after that. Looking forward to it as I've barely seen anything from 97 par the classics we all have seen.
> 
> Dont think I'll be writing anything though, probably will just list the matches I like


I finished 97 a bit a go & it is such an atrocious year man, but good luck :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Main event stuff is great in 1997... but the undercard is filled with numerous shitty stables like ACES & EIGHTS V0.5 and BLACK PEOPLE and MEXICAN GANGSTA PEOPLE SORT OF.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The amount of Boricuas vs D.O.A. matches that year fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those matches :lmao


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thought 1997 was well liked in this thread. Quite surprised, tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe Undertaker & Foley being great. That's about it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta half-way agree with the brothers right now. I think it's a great year, but it's not the all-time great year that I remember it being. The midcard is so awful. PPVs sucked except for the big hitters. However, there are lots of classic matches, feuds, and moments throughout the year. I also love the main event scene. Probably my favorite scene ever. Every top feud is somehow linked and heated. I'll write more about it later when I'm finished with the year, but if Bryan gets his big title victory at Mania, thus rendering all that pain and suffering worth the wait, then I would easily put 2013 over 1997.

Smitty, go download a 2000 pack instead. Or better yet, get an ROH 2005 pack.

You think the stable wars are bad in 1997. In 1998, we had a year-long feud between LOD and DOA. Arguably the worst feud of all-time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like 1997... when you exclude the undercard shite. Undertaker, Austin, Bret, HBK, Foley, HHH (to an extent, mainly Foley feud), Owen & Davey and a few others (Shamrock, Vader etc when given decent opportunities) usually always deliver in some way, but the trash is really fucking BAD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ROH 2005 has a pack? Yeah, get that. Unless you find 2006. Then pick both.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Lots of shit wrestling. Which is why an event the likes of Canadian Stampede is so loved, b/c it's a great event from top to bottom.


Watched that a couple of days ago from the Network and I gotta agree. 
Especially the main event was interesting because at the time the Harts were the heels and Austin and co. were the faces, but with this being in Canada, the roles were reversed, and they worked that nicely into the match. 

slightly off-topic but can you imagine being a fly on the wall in a Hart Family reunion back in those days? That family is freakin' HUGE. Like Jerry said half of the arena must've been related to the Harts in one way or another.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> ROH 2005 has a pack? Yeah, get that. Unless you find 2006. Then pick both.


2007 is right up there for me too, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Watched that a couple of days ago from the Network and I gotta agree.
> Especially the main event was interesting because at the time the Harts were the heels and Austin and co. were the faces, but with this being in Canada, the roles were reversed, and they worked that nicely into the match.
> 
> slightly off-topic but can you imagine being a fly on the wall in a Hart Family reunion back in those days? That family is freakin' HUGE. Like Jerry said half of the arena must've been related to the Harts in one way or another.


It was immense stuff. That's what makes it so great. It really became America vs Canada in that program. Austin was the nation's biggest heel above America & Bret - along w/all of em - was the most glorious savior ever seen. I didn't like much from Bret in the wrestling aspect during 1997, but his character work was at an all time high. Suppose it wasn't hard when he wasn't much of a character at any other point, but he ruled on that aspect in 1997. That's kind of year in a nut-shell. Memorable moments w/the characters that mattered, but quality wrestling wasn't complete throughout the product.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You think the stable wars are bad in 1997. In 1998, we had a year-long feud between LOD and DOA. Arguably the worst feud of all-time.


 Then they add Hawk's personal problems. What was up with the LOD in 1998? They split just before Wrestlemania and then return randomly with no explanations as to why they split up and how they made up again apart from "Sunny brought them back". 

And first half of 1997 was kinda boring outside of the main event/Austin and Hart feud IMO. Personally prefer 1998 to it. Think the title feuds are better than the feuds in 1997. The Corporation angle, Highway to hell build, Foley/Austin and Austin/HBK just make better in general.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Brye said:


> 2007 is right up there for me too, imo.


The faction warfare year :mark:

I won so many of the 2007 ROH shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> 2007 is right up there for me too, imo.


Morishima the great & FACTION WARFARE. No doubt; awesome year.

The first Generico vs Castagnoli match happens circa 2007 too.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So which match do you guys think is worse from 97 Triple H vs Sgt. Slaughter from Degeneration-X? or Bret vs Undertaker from SummerSlam?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well considering the SS match is ****+ and the HHH/Slaughter match is around a DUD... too close to call.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would ask that, you wacky beatle? :lmao

You know everyone will pick the Triple H vs Slaughter match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ the hate for Bret/Undertaker matches from 1997. Did they have any more matches besides SS and ONO? Watched both last year and thought they were both solid.

Almost at Cold Day in Hell for 1997 but I just have a hard time keeping going because as mentioned, most stuff outside the main event are shit. Also whatever happened to Sid? He went from main eventing Wrestlemania to disappearing completely right afterwards.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's probably just mocking someone's retarded opinion on the Bret/Taker match :side:.

They wrestled at RR 96 too, but it's a very "love or hate" kinda match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's all about the HBK/HHH match for the European title. What a hard fought victory by HHH :HHH2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Why would ask that, you wacky beatle? :lmao
> 
> You know everyone will pick the Triple H vs Slaughter match.


Because both matches are extremely BORING, plus you never know what people will say


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sid disappeared until he was in WCW. I recall a hilarious storyline where he broke everybody's arm. I think there was a PPV in 2000 where every match had a person with a broken arm due to Sid :lmao

Now that all the 2005 episodes are gone, was 1996 a good year? RAW was super short back then, so I could probably finish it all in a week or so, but Bret is gone for most of the year. If not, then I guess I'll go on with the dreaded 1999 :vince2

Keep on going strong with 1997 C2D. I need someone else to watch the Attitude Era along with me and Oliver-94.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was Luger, FF.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't blame me for confusing the two. Both of them sucked and both of them are big white guys. I almost got rid of that stuff from my memory, but sometimes 2000 WCW kinda lingers there. I think I've completely forgotten about heel Rey Mysterio. That's a success.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They wrestled at RR 96 too, but it's a very "love or hate" kinda match.


I meant in 97 mainly. Already heard about RR 96 and some house show from 92 or something.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Sid disappeared until he was in WCW. I recall a hilarious storyline where he broke everybody's arm. I think there was a PPV in 2000 where every match had a person with a broken arm due to Sid :lmao
> 
> Now that all the 2005 episodes are gone, was 1996 a good year? RAW was super short back then, so I could probably finish it all in a week or so, but Bret is gone for most of the year. If not, then I guess I'll go on with the dreaded 1999 :vince2
> 
> Keep on going strong with 1997 C2D. I need someone else to watch the Attitude Era along with me and Oliver-94.


You're already done with 2005? And here I thought I went through it at the pace of lightning when I finished it in 2 months. :lol

The main reason I wanna get through 97 is to witness the rest of the Attitude Era when The Rock blows up. I could take the easy way out and just skip forward to 2000 but I don't wanna cheat through this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was amazing how much they made me loathe Rey Mysterio when I was younger. The stupid horns he wore. Hanging out w/Konnan. Gosh. That's why you died WCW. It's now made official.

Also, I like Sid. Didn't start to find Luger worthless until the late 90's, either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha, I only got up to mid-February before I had an accounting test to study for last week. The Youtube page that I watched everything from got rid of all their 2005 episodes. I too just wanna go all the way to 2000, but I don't wanna cheat. Watching the "Bret screwed Bret" interview right now :lmao. All the kayfabe in the world broken here.

Sid was a terrible wrestler, but he did have some sort of likable trait about him. No wonder he always got cheered whenever he turned heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sid's charisma transcends, man.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Someone tell me/show me where Luger sucked.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i never liked sting


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Someone tell me/show me where Luger sucked.


You mean you liked his WWF run? You liked anything from his later WCW run? You liked him wrestling against Dusty Rhodes and Dan Spivey and Barry Windham?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Kiz said:


> i never liked sting


That's good to know.

I never liked Cena.

Next?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love Cena & Sting. I like Luger during the first Crockett/WCW stuff, he was real good.

Look at me, liking everybody.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I dare someone to watch every single RAW and Smackdown episode from 2013. Not just the PPVs. 

It's funny how doing something like that is a doable task in say, 1997, 98, 99, 00, and 01. But its nay impossible for today's product. Mostly because the majority of today's raws and smack downs are absolute trash and a complete waste of time. About 90% of the matches, and segments mean nothing. But hey, you can always pick out that Punk/Cena match and say 2013 was a GOAT year!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I love Cena & Sting. I like Luger during the first Crockett/WCW stuff, he was real good.
> 
> Look at me, liking everybody.


Everyone eh?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He has enjoyable stuff in both runs. He was fun as hell through 1996 in WCW especially. Also you didn't mention his peak which would mean he didn't suck altogether. You said not one month ago that every wrestler has been bad [which still isn't true, though] and that doesn't make them bad. How much of Luger's 1989 have you seen? Chris Jericho couldn't imagine having a year that good. 

The Windham cage match sucked but I honestly thought he probably put more effort into it than Barry did. Which Dusty match? I can't remember any matches between them but it's possible I don't know where they're from. I know a couple of people who loved the Dan Spivey match but I never got motivated to watch it.


I still have to finish watching Matt Borne matches, then Wrath & Mortis, but straight after that I'm doing 90s Lex Luger. I'm not doubting he sucked somewhere, but was he as bad as, say, Ric Flair at his worst? Not like everyone lets the shitty Ric Flair offset the great Ric Flair. I'll watch 25 matches instead of 5 to get a better picture.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WRATH & MORTIS.

btw Jheri I found a Doink vs Backlund match from '93 a few days ago and it blew my mind. Only about five minutes, but the grappling + Borne insanity were off the charts.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Luger was one of my favorite dudes during the nWo era. Those muscles, man...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> Everyone eh?




















OMG, HE'S RACIST! 8*D


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

The thing with 1997 and to an extent the first few months of 98 was that the undercard wrestling was pretty poor and the gimmicks weren't as outrageous as the peak of Attitude in 1999 and 2000. It wasn't until late 98/99 that OTT gimmicks were popping he crow that seemed to make an entire show seem hot.

Austin was great in 1997, Shawn Michaels and Bret wrestled some great matches, Foley had some good stuff but it was mostly mediocre. Scott Putski? Rockabilly? The Sultan? Kama Mustafa? Nah, people loved the Outlaws promos, Godfather, popped for Rikishi etc.




A question: has anyone recommendations for 2012 and 2013 Raw and Smackdown matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn & Bret had great matches together _(there was only one, btw)_ but Foley was mediocre? :jordan


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

just watched 2001 Vengeance on the WWE Network. it was the title unification ppv where jericho beat the stone cold and the rock in two matches in a row. both with tons of interference. i almost never watch old ppv's and am in the group of people who think wrestling was so much better back in the attitude era. well, that balloon just burst. the ppv was kinda boring and most of the matches average to slightly above. couple of bad ones in there too including trish stratus/jaq which was a shit sandwich of a match. 

did trish get a lot better in the following years? i didn't watch wwe from late 2001-2005, but from the few random matches i've seen of hers from 2003-2005 she was pretty damn good.

it didn't have a single great match in the whole thing despite having an all-star roster of wrestlers. wtf? the crowd was kinda dead and didn't even pop big for stone cold or the rock.

it's like wrestling was always as it is now, but we didn't all go online to bitch about every minute thing that bothered us back then. it was still a very mixed bag with a lot of mediocre and boring matches back then.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Foley/Austin & The Undertaker were easily the best part of 1997.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I thought bret was fantastic in 97. easily his best year. his character work was off the fucking charts. usually i just find him dry and boring as hell



HayleySabin said:


> Shawn & Bret had great matches together _(there was only one, btw)_ but Foley was mediocre? :jordan


they had a great match?

was I in a coma when this happened?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. All their matches suck. That's the point, fake kiz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 01 has the rather awesome RVD/Undertaker match.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Most memorable thing about 1997 was Pillman stealing Goldusts wife.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget about Regal vs Edge & Jericho vs Rock. Especially the latter, eh Cal? Yeah, I know. But I'm a fan.

Taker vs RVD is wonderful; MOTN.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

1997 in general was just amazing. characters in that year were off the chart. it was very edgy, very controversial, very raw, but at the same time the wrestling was class

my favourite year of the attitude era arguably enough. i like how gritty it was. asides from pushing austin, vince had no fucking idea where to go, but dammit he was gonna try his best to try and get there


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot Regal/Edge was on that show :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Multiple butterfly powerbombs :mark:


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

To get back to 2014. Extreme Rules Wyatts vs Shield is still MOTY and is > than Cesaro v Zayn.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had an ER match? AND I MISSED IT?


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> They had an ER match? AND I MISSED IT?


Elimination Chamber Extreme Rules. Same shit. 8*D


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

we didnt want to tell you about it on purpose cal

because we dont like you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WELL I DON'T LIKE YOU EITHER REKIZ


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My favorite match from them was at that other PPV named about the gimmick.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, I already made a purist diatribe yesterday talking of the insane potential for single matches in 2014 to add to the already tremendous big match collection we have been pleasured to see, and now I see news that Angle is slated to return in September. Albeit I am unsure the validity of this, but if this happens, than I am certainly welcome to it. From a story perspective, while I would imagine a wrestler of angle's caliber warrants another of the to be crowded main event scene, Angle's versatility is quite welcome in that he could be heel or face, work well in comedic roles or his role since late wwe/ joining TNA of wrestling machine badass. (probably his better suited spot at his age) Unfortunately even though there is a plethora of great young talent and some future franchise pieces like Bray,Roman and maybe even ambrosse if he is handled correctly, there isn't alot of starpower to go around currently in wwe's roster given that Punk is gone and his starpower is debatable anyway, Bryan needs time to be a true star in a household name sense, when Lesnar pops in and out it is almost always against an established wrestler and Cena can't clone himself leaving Batista and Cena as the only two weekly wrestlers with starpower assuming Taker doesn't make one last calandar run. If Angle gets back to wwe, he could come back as heel or face and benefit these young studs who need that credability to build their name value. On Angle's end, he would get to go out having assumably very high quality fresh matches vs as heel the likes of Cesaro or Rollins or as face the likes of Ambrosse, Zayn if called up by September, potentially Neville. On our end we get some damn good match potential and the entertainment value of angle. I realize Angle has lost astep, but I think he has more in the tank saved up then we think and he is still damn good at his best. 

As for shield/wyatts 2, will be interesting to see how this one is handled. Is this marquee rematch the final nail in the coffin?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

to be honest I dont mind the gimmick PPV names, i just wish it wasnt a fixed schedule but developed organically like it did in the 90s

they didnt call it In Your House Buried Alive then decide to have the gimmick match, it was the other way round

that being said, elimination chamber before wrestlemania kinda makes sense i guess


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EC before WM is trash. Hate the placement b/c most of the time you know the championship match is pure filler.

The set schedule is def the large problem. I can handle mediocre PPVs names b/c it's irrelevant. Just give me a Hell in a Cell match when it would be needed for the grudge. Should use a different stip for my point b/c the match is a shell of what it once contained. _(well a LOT of gimmicks in WWE are, actually)_


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

its rather unfortunate what happened to the cell. they genuinely used to be the best matches of the year

honestly I cant recall a good one since Edge faced Taker in Summerslam

which is, ironically enough, the last year before they switched to the 'hell in a cell' PPV

I dont necessarily blame PG for it, its just that its never used in the right situations because of the fixed schedule


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Cena vs Punk vs Del Rio a lot. Although, as a "cell" match, it was quite flat. That's the problem. Doesn't help that a lot of the matches following the loss of importance have just been bad as a whole. All the elements behind the match have dwindled. Shame.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Im not saying the matches in the cell have all been bad. They havent. Sheamus vs Orton and the triple threat you mentioned were fun. Even taker vs Hunter at WM 28

The only problem is this. not one of those three matches needed the goddamn cell. it would have been the exact same match, with or without it

Edge vs taker was the last match to truly feel like it belonged in there. that two crazy pissed off murderous sons of bitches were locked up to kill each other


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked Taker/Punk. They did great given the short amount of time they had.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The problem with the cell matches is that it's placed around the ring just because we're in October. The cell should be used to lock in two people who want to kill each other. Ryback randomly getting a title shot inside the cell against Punk just because we've reached that time of the year is exactly why this gimmick has been dying. And yes, I blame PG for the bastardization of any type of cage match too. I'm not blood thirsty but it's just not the same when they get their face smashed against the steel numerous times and come out of it as if they wrestled a regular match.

Since they introduced the PPV, only Orton/Cena and Kane/Taker were feuds that could justify using the cell. The rest was just unnecessary. (Orton/Sheamus, even though it was a good match, didn't need it)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll give the pass to Taker vs H in the Cell. It was feeding off finishing what was started at WM 27 & the two guys who have been inside that structure the most finally having a match vs each other inside. It was passable by me. Rest were only in it b/c that PPV was next on the chart.

Yeah, I'd actually say I like Taker vs Punker more than said Taker vs Trips match, myself.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Shawn & Bret had great matches together _(there was only one, btw)_ but Foley was mediocre? :jordan


Sorry, poor syntax on my part.... I meant a lot of 1997 was mediocre. Foley had the fued with Triple H, he Revenge of Taker match and that one with Kane in Montreal plus the return of Cactus.

Punk/Taker's Cell match was just Undertaker burying Punk, plus Taker had an injured hip I think. I never liked it but as was said above, most of the HIAC mathes since 2009 haven't warranted the Cell which used to be used to blow off a fued but has mostly been used as a PPV gimmick in and of itself.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

taker vs punk really bugged me. mostly since I was crazy for Punk at the time, the match was absurdly anti climatic, and it pissed me off that punk lost so decisively

especially after the feud vs jeff



Choke2Death said:


> The problem with the cell matches is that it's placed around the ring just because we're in October. The cell should be used to lock in two people who want to kill each other. Ryback randomly getting a title shot inside the cell against Punk just because we've reached that time of the year is exactly why this gimmick has been dying. And yes, I blame PG for the bastardization of any type of cage match too. I'm not blood thirsty but it's just not the same when they get their face smashed against the steel numerous times and come out of it as if they wrestled a regular match.
> 
> Since they introduced the PPV, only Orton/Cena and Kane/Taker were feuds that could justify using the cell. The rest was just unnecessary. (Orton/Sheamus, even though it was a good match, didn't need it)


i dont think its the PG thing be fair. some blood would be nice but the fundamental ingredients are

1) intense feud
2) two world class wrestlers
3) rage

it has to be special


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also wasn't a fan of Punk dropping the title like he did, but I loved his matches with Taker.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

really?

only part of their series that i really liked was the wrestlemania match and the fantastic one on smackdown with emo taker


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Undertaker/Triple HIAC is a great match and possibly in the top 3 Cell matches, certainly top5 and it happened during the PG era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forever Unchained said:


> Sorry, poor syntax on my part.... I meant a lot of 1997 was mediocre. Foley had the fued with Triple H, he Revenge of Taker match and that one with Kane in Montreal plus the return of Cactus.


Got ya, chief.



Kiz said:


> i dont think its the PG thing be fair. some blood would be nice but the fundamental ingredients are
> 
> 1) intense feud
> 2) two world class wrestlers
> ...


Agreed. The rating means nothing. Besides, the company knows blood can be used in their current market. It was originally saved for specific moments. A proper intensely built feud leading to HIAC would be one of those moments.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I think I may have made a terrible mistake in starting at the beginning of the Network PPVs. I'm watching "The Wrestling Classic" and it is shockingly bad. The first hour had 8 matches.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I liked Cena vs Punk vs Del Rio a lot. Although, as a "cell" match, it was quite flat. That's the problem. Doesn't help that a lot of the matches following the loss of importance have just been bad as a whole. All the elements behind the match have dwindled. Shame.


I love that match :mark:

But let's not forget the classic match on that show Sin Cara vs Sin Cara :lmao


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching SummerSlam 2006 on the Network.

I forgot how dull and awkward Sabu vs. Big Show was. About to watch Flair/Foley. :mark: For some reason I've always liked this match. Two old bastards in a Hardcore match or whatever the gimmick match was. Flair threatening Melina was hilarious. "I'll kill you too, bitch!".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cody Rhodes had a better match on that night working in dress shoes & slacks.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Lol I remember buying HIAC 2011. Okay show.

My parents really wanted to watch it on PPV for some reason.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> Watching SummerSlam 2006 on the Network.
> 
> I forgot how dull and awkward Sabu vs. Big Show was. About to watch Flair/Foley. :mark: For some reason I've always liked this match. Two old bastards in a Hardcore match or whatever the gimmick match was. Flair threatening Melina was hilarious. "I'll kill you too, bitch!".


As akward as it looks I still enjoy the hell out of that match.



> Cody Rhodes had a better match on that night working in dress shoes & slacks.


When you got actual talent you can wrestle in anything


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Foley is amazing...pardon the finish. _(which I actually hate a ton)_ Still everything you wanted: both bumping hard & bleeding tons, Flair going psycho, old vets proving how they're > all the rest.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

TaylorFitz said:


> I think I may have made a terrible mistake in starting at the beginning of the Network PPVs. I'm watching "The Wrestling Classic" and it is shockingly bad. The first hour had 8 matches.


You're guaranteed to get bored fast trying that. Me on the other hand, I purposefully went straight for the awful early 90s WCW stuff like Robocop and Chamber of Horrors as I'd never seen these shows in full. The scaffold match with Austin, Terry Taylor, PN news and Bob Eaton was abysmal.

I also watched the Rhodes v Darsow truck match from Uncensored 95 which was pitiful.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The finish was beyond lame & resulted into absolutely nothing.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> As akward as it looks I still enjoy the hell out of that match.


To each's own. 

Sabu fucking up the table spot prior was hilarious. Then again, it is Big Show so it's hard to pull out a 5 star match with him, 'specially if you're that small.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Flair vs Foley is amazing...pardon the finish. _(which I actually hate a ton)_ Still everything you wanted: both bumping hard & bleeding tons, Flair going psycho, old vets proving how they're > all the rest.


I agree, that finish was cringing. The rest was great.

And I never understood the Melina/Foley thing.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> To each's own.
> 
> Sabu fucking up the table spot prior was hilarious. Then again, it is Big Show so it's hard to pull out a 5 star match with him, 'specially if you're that small.


Hey at least he didn't try to springboard off of a ladder in that match :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show is fecking amazing. It's the other way around working w/shit like Sabu.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Hey at least he didn't try to springboard off of a ladder in that match :lmao :lmao :lmao


Right? :lmao :lmao

Also, Edge/Cena was pretty good. And the FU side on both Lita and Edge was a decent spot. And dat ending was really cool. JR losing his shit at Edge. :lol Wish we had more moments like that.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Big Show really should get more respect for everything he can do for his size considering all the other big oafs in the world who can not do a god damn thing in a wrestling match.

I'm a Big Show fan and I always will be, does he have some stinker matches? of course he does but who the hell doesn't?


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I just found his match with Sabu a bit lackluster.

He's had some pretty good matches, most recently the one with Sheamus at HIAC 2012. I just like to poke fun at his Knit Hat era. :lol


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I still have never seen Show/Sheamus HIAC.

I feel like Greg living under a rock not seeing a specific excellent match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

El Generico/Sami Zayn + bad match doesn't seem to compute.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I mean, don't you want this back? :vince


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Kiz said:


> i dont think its the PG thing be fair. some blood would be nice but the fundamental ingredients are
> 
> 1) intense feud
> 2) two world class wrestlers
> ...


Of course, I'm not saying that adding blood will automatically make it better, but it's part of what made most cage matches special. It sure as hell didn't make HBK/HHH great but I feel it's needed for a cell match to really reach classic level. Don't recall if Edge/Taker had any but if it didn't, then that's an exception.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

BAD GAWD FLAIR IS BLEEDIN' LACK UH STUFF PIG!!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Murderface said:


> I still have never seen Show/Sheamus HIAC.


SHAME ON YOU. I watched their main 2012 series yesterday :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's seen the other matches. Been telling him to watch the dang match already as I know it's on Dailymotion or something. 

b/c it's AWESOME.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Flair just got body-slammed into thumbtacks. :mark:

Bringing back memories. :lenny


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> SHAME ON YOU. I watched their main 2012 series yesterday :mark:.


Hey I'm top of just about everything else, I don't get a mulligan for this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So he's seen their OTHER matches... but not the BEST? Mental.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll make it easier for MURDERFACE. Here's the match, watch it and you wont regret it!



I haven't seen the chairs and lumberjack matches, are they worth the time?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> So he's seen their OTHER matches... but not the BEST? Mental.





> He's seen the other matches. Been telling him to watch the dang match already as I know it's on Dailymotion or something.
> 
> b/c it's AWESOME.


I will watch it tonight just for you guys :agree: Cody will probably just watch it with me honestly.



> I haven't seen the chairs and lumberjack matches, are they worth the time?


Yes they are.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll watch it again if that helps. I don't need much convincing. 8*D

:lmao SEE, I KNEW IT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I haven't seen the chairs and lumberjack matches, are they worth the time?


I thought the chairs match was okay, but of course not as good as the HIAC match.

That brogue kick counter into the WMD. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chairs is good but a step down from HIAC and SVS. Lumberjack is tremendous.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

"YOU SON OF A BITCH, YOU QUIT! YOU QUIT OR I'LL KILL YOU RIGHT HERE! I WILL TEAR OUT YOUR HEART!" :flair2 :mark:

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HIAC
Lumberjack
Chairs
Survivor Series

They're all GREAT. K, match time. :hb


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

"WAIT A MINUTE! THIS ISN'T A, LAY DOWN ON YOUR ASS MATCH, IT'S AN I QUIT MATCH! GET YOUR ASS BACK IN HERE, FOLEY!"

:lmao


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Wait a minute.. they censored the part where he told Melina "I'll kill you too, bitch!". :lmao

I find that odd considering Flair was pretty much threatening to murder Mick Foley and saying he'll tear out his eye through his head, and that of all things get censored. Not to mention he was bleeding like crazy. That's hilarious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Did they censor "I'll tear your cunt out?" too. I think NAITCH says it when he has Foley by the ropes with the barbwire bat in his hand.

Cussing :flair2 is the best! :mark:

Thinking about it, SummerSlam 2006 is rather underrated as an event. Hogan/Orton, Flair/Foley, DX/McMahon (minus SuperDX pre-match) and Edge/Cena are all quality matches.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Forever Unchained said:


> You're guaranteed to get bored fast trying that. Me on the other hand, I purposefully went straight for the awful early 90s WCW stuff like Robocop and Chamber of Horrors as I'd never seen these shows in full. The scaffold match with Austin, Terry Taylor, PN news and Bob Eaton was abysmal.
> 
> I also watched the Rhodes v Darsow truck match from Uncensored 95 which was pitiful.


Starrcade 85 is up after this current show and that's going to be great. I think I can do it as long as I can power through some of the bad shows from the time periods to get to the good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was so jazzed up from Sheamus/Show that I was obliged to watch more excellent wrestling. 

Foley vs Flair I Quit, a pair of ROH battles circa 2007, & half of Rise & Fall of WCW's first disc content. Which included Midnight Express vs Southern Boys. As if I need any excuse to watch that beauty again. The greatest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Was so jazzed up from Sheamus/Show that I was obliged to watch more excellent wrestling.
> 
> Foley vs Flair I Quit, a pair of ROH battles circa 2007, & half of Rise & Fall of WCW's first disc content. Which included Midnight Express vs Southern Boys. As if I need any excuse to watch that beauty again. The greatest.



Just watched that GAB tag again today actually. FUCKING KARATE :mark::mark:

I still have the Steiner's/MVC COTC tag as my favorite tag match ever, but that GAB is every bit as good. I just prefer the style that the Steiner's tag is worked in, mainly how they start out on the mat, Rick Steiner gets pissed, then just starts trying to cave everyone's face in :mark:

I owe Yeah1993 big time for turning me on to that match, it truly is the greatest thing I've ever seen. Ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> He has enjoyable stuff in both runs. He was fun as hell through 1996 in WCW especially. Also you didn't mention his peak which would mean he didn't suck altogether. You said not one month ago that every wrestler has been bad [which still isn't true, though] and that doesn't make them bad. How much of Luger's 1989 have you seen? Chris Jericho couldn't imagine having a year that good.
> 
> The Windham cage match sucked but I honestly thought he probably put more effort into it than Barry did. Which Dusty match? I can't remember any matches between them but it's possible I don't know where they're from. I know a couple of people who loved the Dan Spivey match but I never got motivated to watch it.


I honestly just don't know why I'm supposed to appreciate him, let alone like him. As a face, he is such an awkward bumper/seller and I can't find anything to "sympathize" about him with. Occasionally he brought the energy expected of a babyface, but that was mainly in his younger days, and even then, I never really liked his comeback sequence. As a heel, he always had boring control segments. I've never seen a good brawl from him. I don't really expect it from him, but his moveset is very small and doesn't really hide his limitations. 

In many cases, he has held his own (Clash 1, Steamboat match), but Luger benefited from working with the best talent in the world. Put anyone in there with Ric Flair and let them have some hope spots and they will look a million bucks. Put Lex Luger against Michael Hayes or Mean Mark Callous and I go to sleep. I don't see him as a guy who has those "intricacies" that the Regals and Guerreros have, which is also fine. However, if he can't do that, then he has to do something, and he certainly isn't fun. No doubt, he had great stuff in his 1989 run as US Champion. I don't think I would put it above Jericho's 1998 or 2008. I just watched a match he had with Sting in late 89 and it started off pretty well, but when the meat of the match occurred and we got to the control segments, everything was so boring. And that's just what a Luger match is for me. Since he doesn't do anything that well, matches get so boring when he's the focus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Just watched that GAB tag again today actually. FUCKING KARATE :mark::mark:
> 
> I still have the Steiner's/MVC COTC tag as my favorite tag match ever, but that GAB is every bit as good. I just prefer the style that the Steiner's tag is worked in, mainly how they start out on the mat, Rick Steiner gets pissed, then just starts trying to cave everyone's face in :mark:
> 
> I owe Yeah1993 big time for turning me on to that match, it truly is the greatest thing I've ever seen. Ever.


THEY GOT MORE THAN ONLY 11 WRESTLING MATCHES ON THAT EVENT.

Found a link for the COTC match. Being watched now. Then I'll hit up the Puro I wanted to watch tonight. Or maybe the Sheamus/Christian & Zayn/Cesaro rematches for the write ups I want to do on 'em. Maybe all of it tonight. The next bit of time is wide open for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Invasion 2001

Team WWF: Austin, Angle, Kane, Taker & Jericho vs Team Alliance: Booker T, D-Von, Bubba Ray, Rhyno & DDP*

Very interesting match. Hadn't watched in ages but it just had a really weird feel to it. Heyman was fucking fantastic on the outside of this one. WCW team was just hitting random finishers left and right on Angle which was really strange because if I recall (I might be wrong, I watched it like 4 hours ago) I don't even think there was a pin after one of them. Match really picks up after everyone starts getting involved and Rhyno accidentally gores Booker. Absolute carnage with Jericho's dive into Rhyno looking sick along with those two, Kane, Bubba and D-Von fighting an absolute war outside the ring. I feel like this was sort of Angle's defining moment at the time because he just dominates. Austin knee injury charade made sense considering you never knew if those goddamn knees were gonna go. And then of course the turn. Absolutely broke my heart when I was nine. Good match but it seemed to have a lull in the middle but the last ten minutes or so really pick up. - ***1/4

*Survivor Series 2001

Team WWF: Rock, Kane, Taker, Jericho & Big Show vs Team Alliance: Austin, Angle, Shane, Booker & RVD*

Hmm, so now the Alliance team literally just has RVD/Booker as guys that were actually WCW/ECW wrestlers going into the Invasion. A bit telling of his this whole storyline went. :lmao at Shane breaking up every pin count for the first ten minutes of the match or so. A little disappointing that Taker was more or less just a filler guy in this match and got eliminated before the real war started. He was honestly the leader of that team at this point from a motivational standpoint. Show gets the usual "take everyone's finishers and lose" treatment and oddly enough Shane does right after, mostly for audience satisfaction. Noticed that Jericho looked very strong in this one. Seemed to be getting him ready for Vengeance. Good lord Rock & Austin's sharpshooters both looked pretty iffy. I feel like Jericho attacking Rock wasn't necessary at all considering that if Rock eats the pin Jericho loses his job, assuming that they don't hire him for being a traitor. At least Taker got to scare off Jericho. Think the Rock/Austin battle went on a tad too long but it was pretty compelling stuff considering that the supposed fate of wrestling was on the line (lol pretty much everyone in the Alliance stayed in WWE). Nick Patrick runs in and tries to give Austin the win and fails. I guess it was a desperate attempt by WCW, or WWE trying to fill it's run in quota. And then finally we find out Angle was the mole and saves WWE. Fun match but I wouldn't have minded if they shaved about 10 minutes from it. - ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed on both. Although, I should reserve my comments about the Survivor Series match until that day I finally rewatch it. Memory wise, I've never loved it. Thought the length worked against it, despite them wanting to make it feel "huge".

Invasion match does hit a bit of a lull in the middle, iirc. It's still quite fun & a fitting main event for the PPV. No real sustained build towards the event other than it being that long awaited promotional war show? Make a main eventers rumble be the headliner. Then shock the world by keeping Austin a heel. JOY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really liked the video package going into the Inaugural Brawl one. With that Taker/Freddie Blassie speech and the big brawl where Austin comes back from the bar. The Raw before Invasion is a pretty solid show if I recall. Weird thing about the Invasion match is that Angle is the face in peril for a pretty long time and he actually never ends up making the hot tag to anyone. Surprised me a bit.

Survivor Series one sort of underutilized people. Jericho, Austin, Rock and Angle had good exposure but I felt Kane, Taker, RVD and Show didn't really get to show much passion for their sides or anything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's where the angle dropped off at and began to only fixate towards the new plan - Unifying the straps. Once it stopped feeling like WWF vs WCW/ECW, it began to lose it's luster. Angle's heel turn for example was god awful. Of course, there was a solid reason why it did happen, but once that went down you were left to say "really?" Meanwhile DDP somehow faded away and Shane was on the Alliance team. The way of how Test winning the battle royal meant nothing, you almost could have stuck him in the main event over Shane for the sake of using someone else. May have not been an official guy to come from WCW/ECW, but it's something which could have been meaningful. Or Regal for the same scenario too. He did have WCW history behind him to make it click.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think i've ever seen Flair/Foley (I Quit).  Think ill dig out my DVD now....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You should. It's a must watch if you're into bloody wars.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The I Quit match is very fun, very good even, its always felt like the last ten minutes of a 25 minute war though, I really get the feeling (and I think Foley says as much in Hardcore Diaries) that they were cut unexpectedly short and just rushed through to that point.

Might have been a MOTY contender if it had an extra 10 minutes.

:flair2 's late 05-06 is just damn, damn fun.

Best for swearing :flair2 for me is the Cage match against HHH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Orton/Hogan from the same event. Silly question, but why did Hogan go over Orton?

Oh and yeah, loved the I Quit match. Talk about a bloody war, but i agree with the above, it did feel rushed at the end IMO too.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

They upped some more stuff to the vault:

4/20/85 (Maple Leaf Gardens)
George Wells vs Bret Hart
Valentine/Beefcake vs Steamboat/Santana
Hogan vs Orndorff

10/21/84 (Maple Leaf Gardens)
SD Jones vs Valentine
Rocky Johnson vs Volkoff
British Bulldogs vs Jobber Inc
Andre vs Kamala in a cage

12/22/91 (MSG)
Santana vs Kato
Berzerker vs Texas Tornado
Virgil vs Skinner
Hogan vs Flair 
Duggan vs Barbarian
Mountie vs Bret Hart
IRS vs Bossman
Rockers vs Nasty Boys

:mark::mark::mark:

2 more shows added to WCCW and 3 new ECW shows


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Watching Orton/Hogan from the same event. Silly question, but why did Hogan go over Orton?
> 
> Oh and yeah, loved the I Quit match. Talk about a bloody war, but i agree with the above, it did feel rushed at the end IMO too.


Probably b/c Hogan is Hogan + Orton was progressively still in the dog house for that portion of 2006 _(was suspended following WM for the second year in a row)_ and they probably decided the match vs Hogan on the second biggest show of the year is plenty enough following his transgression. If I was Orton, I'd take losing to Hogan over working w/Carlito in a feud, which is exactly what he did a month later. Still reeling from it. Then Rated RKO happened and everything was set.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero) vs Chris Benoit - Battle Of The Super Juniors (6/11/96)*



CLASSIC match i uploaded, that isn't on your precious network.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Gotta half-way agree with the brothers right now. I think it's a great year, but it's not the all-time great year that I remember it being. The midcard is so awful. PPVs sucked except for the big hitters. However, there are lots of classic matches, feuds, and moments throughout the year. I also love the main event scene. Probably my favorite scene ever. Every top feud is somehow linked and heated. I'll write more about it later when I'm finished with the year, but if Bryan gets his big title victory at Mania, thus rendering all that pain and suffering worth the wait, then I would easily put 2013 over 1997.
> 
> Smitty, go download a 2000 pack instead. Or better yet, get an ROH 2005 pack.
> 
> You think the stable wars are bad in 1997. In 1998, we had a year-long feud between LOD and DOA. Arguably the worst feud of all-time.


Yeah I decided to do 2000 instead, gonna try to do SD too but that pack looks like it might take a while so I might have to settle for just RAW which would suck.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Still haven't seen Zayn/Cesaro. I suck, I know. Might try and fine the time later on if I can.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Just watched Cesaro/Zayn. With that and Shield/Wyatts, and WrestleMania coming along (Brock/Taker), might need to start watching wrestling again.

^^ Watch it. Beyond brilliant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow Starbuck, you totally SUCK don't you? Took you nearly a year to watch Ziggler/Del Rio and now fuck knows when you'll watch Zayn/Cesaro.

And to think people doubt that you are a girl :side:.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho/Benoit at Backlash was really great, Jericho/Guerrero at Insurrextion was good but nothing special

That pop Jericho got when insulting the McMahons/Triple regime at RAW :banderas. He lost the title that night but still :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Wow Starbuck, you totally SUCK don't you? Took you nearly a year to watch Ziggler/Del Rio and now fuck knows when you'll watch Zayn/Cesaro.
> 
> And to think people doubt that you are a girl :side:.


I apologise for having a real life that requires me to do things other than watch wrestling  And if you're making a blowjob joke then you can fuck right off, I don't do gingers


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, you actually watched Ziggler/ADR? Wow, somebody drop a Christian prayer on a Muslim church, since miracles are starting to happen. Ehem I mean about damn time. :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*CM Punk DVD disc 3 ratings 
Punk vs Hardy TLC: ****
Punk vs Mysterio OTL: ***3/4 
Punk vs Cena MITB: *****
Punk vs Jericho WM: ****1/2 
Punk vs Bryan OTL: ****3/4 *​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching Shawn's new DVD :mark: , will be back with thoughts, might indulge in some of these matches also, although Ive seen the major ones about 6x each :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> *Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero) vs Chris Benoit - Battle Of The Super Juniors (6/11/96)*
> 
> 
> 
> CLASSIC match i uploaded, that isn't on your precious network.



Bias aside, that's one of the greatest matches ever. I would pay $50 for JR to dub commentary over it, I can just imagine his calls whenever Benoit sinks that sleeper in again. And then his calls for all those AMAZING false finishes in the end. I know a lot of people aren't bothered by Japanese commentary, but for me, a great play by play calling of a match can take an already AMAZING match and just bring it up a whole nother level. Especially in the case of this bout where it really is a story based match instead of just technical wrestling like a lot of NJ Juniors matches were.


----------



## DMC6162 (Aug 27, 2011)

The fan who keeps wooing and screaming "LET'S GOOOOOOO! WOO! WOO! WOOOOOOO!" during Flair/Rhodes from Starrcade '85 makes it almost unwatchable. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok, just watched the new Shawn DVD, pretty good to me, I would say its very similar to the Bret Hart Dungeon Collection DVD format in HBK shares his thoughts and then the match plays as opposed to the normal DOC style. I love how nowadays these guys are so candid w/ their wrestling logo, "Heel, babyface" and inside stuff was talked about here which was :mark:

Just key things to know as some of this stuff was well known already but :

* He didnt care if he won/lost/jobbed/ had 2 min matches in his early matches just because being on the mania card was good enough for him

* Although he loves naitch, thought Hall deserves WAY more credit in the mania 10 match

* Was really pissed he didnt main event mania 11 and though the Vince's made Nash look weak

* He came up w/ the idea for the Iron man to have no falls and go into OT, everyone else thought it should have falls

* Said he tried to do all he could and sabotage Austin after he won, was so coked out he doesnt remember the build to the match at all

* The Y2j/HBK feud +match stemed from a raw segment and vince and chris running to Shawn saying "you feel that chemistry" There is where he (HBK) decided I'm coming back full time

* Thought the mania 20 match was "cool and nifty" :lol only mention on it here

* The hbk/angle match was the most pressure on him, and during a segment in the build he first called himself "Mr.WM" and that where the phase transcended 

* Want to take a year of the "BIG TIME" matches, and wanted the match w/ Vince

* Knew this wasnt going to be Naitch's last match :lmao but marked like a kid in it

* Thought and wanted to retire after mania 25, thought Taker died after the botch

* Says he could still go and be a top flight worker, just chooses not to :mark:


So yea great stuff


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for that SKINS.



> He came up w/ the idea for the Iron man to have no falls and go into OT, everyone else thought it should have falls.


Interesting.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh sorry, didn't even think about spoilers , lol didn't think most of you would even watch it(you are referring that I should put it in spoilers right ?)

^^ And yea funny enough, it was Patterson was was really against it, funny he think its the GOAT match


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

*I originally posted this in the 2014 MOTYC thread. Thought that a repost here would be necessary.*



Too Far Gone said:


> *The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan) vs. The Shield (Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns) - WWE Elimination Chamber (February 23, 2014) - ★★★★ ½ (YES!/NOMINATED)​
> I'd like to preface this by saying that I have fallen quite behind with watching wrestling over the past several weeks due to some personal issues. Said personal issues have taken quite the toll on me from an emotional standpoint. I was finally able to find the time to see this match after seeing so many positive reviews of it on here for the past week. I saw positive reviews for other matches like Cesaro vs. Cena from RAW as well, but I only had time for one match and decided to make this the match that I could allot time for. Boy am I glad that this was my choice. This match seriously put me in a great fucking mood.
> 
> There are so many thoughts about it that are still floating around in my head, but I honestly can't think of anything to say other than either: (a) things that I have said before, particularly about Bray Wyatt or (b) things that have already been said about this fantastic match in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. That being said, I'm going to keep this pretty simple and state that this match was absolutely phenomenal.
> ...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bret in his book says that he came up with the idea for their to be no falls :lmao

The funny thing is, both guys are trying to take credit for an idea that was absolutely horrible. The whole point of an Ironman match is so that modern fans can get invested in a 60 minute match because there are multiple falls. Fans from the 1990's-on have no desire to see an hour long draw, if Shawn and Bret had just worked in 5 falls to have Shawn win 3-2, they might not have had to have that entire match consist mostly of rest holds. That's why Brock/Angle and Trips/Rocky absolutely smoke that WM 12 match, they worked an exciting pace and had several falls to keep the fans attention. With the exception of Angle, Shawn and Bret were in as good a ring shape as anyone back in 1996, they could have definitely worked a more exciting pace. Kurt Angle is just a freak though, has anyone ever read about the training he did for the 1996 Olympics? He ran up a 5 mile hill every day then ran all the way back down it which is just brutal on your leg muscles. That was just how he began his day, then he'd hit the gym and pump iron for 2 hours and afterwards spend 2-3 hours wrestling himself to the point of exhaustion. Then get up the next morning and do it all over. He's probably as good an athlete as their has ever been in wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I doubt having any amount of falls in their match would have been an improvement .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I rewinded that part to hear his justification, lol @ both of them taking credit. It's funny because everyone around them told them to have falls as it would be less boring


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I doubt having any amount of falls in their match would have been an improvement .


If they had worked in the falls, they wouldn't have been able to do all those rest holds because every fall would require a 3-5 minute finishing sequence. Maybe you're right, maybe it wouldn't have done Jack shit for that match, but any way you cut it working an hour long draw filled with rest holds with 2 minutes of overtime is just a horrible way to book a WrestleMania main event.

Bret is just jelly that the Nature Boy, a guy he thinks is below him as a wrestler, has worked dozens of entertaining hour long matches and Bret got one chance on a far bigger stage and worked a stinker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least Pat Patterson got to have an hour long masturbation session, so someone enjoyed the match... .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> At least Pat Patterson got to have an hour long masturbation session, so someone enjoyed the match... .



:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

You win. Can you imagine how excited Pat must have gotten watching all those late 1980s Rockers matches. I can just imagine him sitting in gorilla having to dump a pitcher of ice water on his crotch every 2 minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yea and the mention about the mania 20 matches was during the discussion about the cena match, he was talking about only wanting to help in his 2nd run and being in the title match 2x at mania


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone that ever complains about the state of wrestling today needs to watch In Your House: Degeneration-X. AWFUL PPV. Like 2000 WCW bad. The highlight of this sham of a show is Goldust dressing in drag and reading DR SEUSS while Luna acts as a dominatrix. What shit!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Holy shit I really enjoyed Taker/Heidenreich from SVS 2004, I remember it being bad, but it was an awesome brawl imo


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> Holy shit I really enjoyed Taker/Heidenreich from SVS 2004, I remember it being bad, but it was an awesome brawl imo


:mark:

That match + Christian/Shelton + Raw SVS Tag = a pretty sweet event, despite the fact I don't even remember anything else from the show or how good/bad it was .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton was progressively still in the dog house for that portion of 2006 _(was suspended following WM for the second year in a row)_


Wasn't his absence in 2005 following WM21 because he had to get shoulder surgery?

The suspension post-WM22 didn't count as part of the wellness policy. I think he got his first strike right before the Hogan match but Vince let him work without pay to avoid changing storylines. Which is also why he had that useless program with Carlito (which he still won, lol).



Starbuck said:


> And if you're making a blowjob joke then you can fuck right off, I don't do gingers


At last you're openly acknowledging your gender after no-selling it for so long. 



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> At least Pat Patterson got to have an hour long masturbation session, so someone enjoyed the match... .


:lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Since we all are about lists, and we do taker's all the time and I just watched the DVD

Top Michaels' mania matches

1) 25
2) 26
3) 10
4) 24
5) 23

It was a toss up between 23 and 20 for #5. I just rewatched naitch/michaels again, I dont want to write another 3 para essay on it :lol ( I will if I want to DAMMIT) but wow, just wow perfection


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SEAN MIKE-OWLS Mania stuff:

1) 25
2) 26
3) 20
4) 19
5) 10


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Top HBK WM matches:

1. 25
2. XXVI
3. XXIV
4. XX
5. X

Honorable mentions: 22 (The funnest ass-kicking I've ever seen), XIX, 23


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> :mark:
> 
> That match + Christian/Shelton + Raw SVS Tag = a pretty sweet event, despite the fact I don't even remember anything else from the show or how good/bad it was .


CW match was fun, Booker/JBL will probably suck

best PPV since BL so far


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I love the vince match, idk why it too me so long to watch it. Also how beautiful are the SCM . in the flair match. Best looking ones by far

Ahh everything about that match is so perfection, naitch really should have stopped there TBH, I honestly wonder how casuals/poster on here would view him if he didnt have the TNA stuff,


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

J.R. marking the fuck out as Shawn was whipping Vince with the belt :banderas Truly the greatest commentator of all time.

The match may be looked as overbooked with the inclusion of The Spirit Squad and Shane, but God damnit, the match was so freaking fun to watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> God


How apt. :side:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> How apt. :side:


Speaking of God, I never watched the Backlash match lol


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

HBK top-5 WM matches:

1. 21
2. 25
3. 26
4. 20
5. 10

GOAT :hbk


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Wrestling Classic


*Adrian Adonis vs. Corporal Kirchner*
They didn't waste too much time as they were talking about how the first rounds had 10 minute time limits. So there wasn't any annoying stalling or anything like that. I honestly don't know how to review this. It was average and it was 5 minutes. This show is going to be tough to review and probably watch.
**1/2*


*Nikolai Volkoff vs. The Dynamite Kid*
Hilarious. Kid hits a dropkick off the top rope as soon as Volkoff stops signing the the Russian national anthem for the win. Hilarious.
*1/2**


*Ivan Putski vs. Randy Savage w/Elizabeth*
I think I see where they are going with this. Savage looked totally outmatched and it looked like he was going to get his ass kicked. Yet he someone snuck away with an a win to the annoyance of everyone. On the plus side they established a story that will probably be consistent throughout the tournament. Of course there is only so much praise you can give a match when it's just Savage getting shoved around and then getting a cheap win.
***


*Ricky Steamboat vs. Davey Boy Smith*
A very intriguing match. It delivered for the brief time they had as well. There was a great clash in styles and for four minutes they threw everything they had at each other. This is what I want to see when I get a sub 5 minute match.
****


*The Junkyard Dog vs. The Iron Sheik*
YYD pretty much squashes the Sheik and wins with a headbutt. If that sounds entertaining to you then you will love this match. Otherwise it's not very good.
*1/4**


*Moondog Spot vs. Terry Funk*
Another hilarious match. Funk decides to be clever and get him and Moondog to leave together and take the draw (which would eliminate them both). Obviously Funk double crosses him and tried to win by countout. But if fails miserably and Funk ends up losing by countout in 30 secons. Watching Funk get outsmarted by someone with the IQ of a rock and then freaking out when it didn't work was so funny.
*1/2**


*The Magnificent Morocco vs. Tito Santana *
I'm running out of things to say about matches like this. It looked like Tito injured his leg which should set up for an interesting second round match. Also the ending was really stupid.
***


*Paul Orndorff vs. Bob Orton*
Orndorff works the arm of Orton which was really just kind of confusing because the gimmick is supposed to be that there really isn't anything wrong with it. Orton uses the cast as a weapon and ends up getting DQed, which also made things confusing since it seems like a terrible gimmick to have the cast if you can never use it.
***


*Adrian Adonis w/Jimmy Hart vs. The Dynamite Kid*
Finally a match that was both short AND fun to watch. Adonis comes in and controls the match with a very methodical approach. He stays on Kid non-stop and it looks like he doesn't even give him a chance to breath. The comeback was good as well and features some offense that really stands out in 1985 WWF. If the whole tournament had matches like these I might actually be enjoying this show.
***1/4*


*Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat*
It's less than 5 minutes long. I mean they did pretty good for what they had but it was just a basic match with Savage cheating all the time and Steamboat trying to overcome it. I'm sure this is the worst match they've ever had with each other. That being said it was still pretty funny given the circumstances.
****


*The Junkyard Dog vs. Moondog Spot*
The infamous no referee match. It was pretty hilarious that there was no ref and it was a total squash. And even the few moves that they did looked bad.
*DUD*


*Tito Santana vs. Paul Orndoff*
Orndoff worked the leg of Tito that was injured before it. I don't want to talk about this match any more. I don't want to watch this show anymore. 
**1/2* 


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Hulk Hogan(c) vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper*
Piper is a much better opponent for Hogan than most of the monsters that he faces. He just acts likes a lunatic the entire time and takes it right to Hogan. The match itself was pretty good. But not actually that good. Fuck this show.
***1/4
*

*Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid*
Oh hey, another short match that was sort of fun to watch. 
****


*Randy Savage vs.The Yunkyard Dog*
See above review. Except this ended in a countout. Yeah a countout. I watched all of these fucking matches to see this whole tournament end in a countout. 
**1/2*​
I don't think I like wrestling anymore. 15 matches in 2 and a half hours. The longest match was 9 minutes long. I think this is the worst show I've ever seen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Wrestling Classic is a complete oxymoron for that PPV lol. Would love to have seen a longer Smith/Steamer match though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Top HBK Mania Matches:

1. Vs Taker WM 25 *****
2. Vs HHH vs Benoit WM 20 *****
3. Vs Taker WM 26 *****
4. Vs Angle WM 21 ****1/2
5. Vs Jericho WM 19 ****1/2
6. Vs Flair WM 24 ****1/4
7. Vs Razor WM 10 ****1/4
8. Vs Cena WM 23 ****1/4
9. Vs Vince WM 22 ****1/4
10. Vs Austin WM 14 ***1/2

All but the Austin match deserve ****1/4+ in my book. Still, for my money, there is only 1 Mr. WrestleMania, and he definitely isn't a "sexy boy". He's a Deadman, and he always has the most important match on the card. Even when he's working with a bum like Triple H.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Bias aside, that's one of the greatest matches ever. I would pay $50 for JR to dub commentary over it, I can just imagine his calls whenever Benoit sinks that sleeper in again. And then his calls for all those AMAZING false finishes in the end. I know a lot of people aren't bothered by Japanese commentary, but for me, a great play by play calling of a match can take an already AMAZING match and just bring it up a whole nother level. Especially in the case of this bout where it really is a story based match instead of just technical wrestling like a lot of NJ Juniors matches were.


One of my favorites as well - I love the first 30 seconds after Eddie refuses to shake his hand, and then does his warm-up hit the ropes and look to set up a knuckle lock, Chris just pushes his face:lol. 30 seconds in, I'm in it

Japanese commentary is pretty great in its own right - so many little idiosyncrasies in their inflections, Jenglish (Lariatoh!), and mark out moments - can be real fun. I remember I really liked how my J-Cup DVD's didn't have any commentary at all. It gave the matches a bigger feel to me, listening to all the little grunts, subtle crowd noises, huge sounding pops and foot-stomping rumbles. Made it easy for me to be in the moment.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

JustJoel said:


> One of my favorites as well - I love the first 30 seconds after Eddie refuses to shake his hand, and then does his warm-up hit the ropes and look to set up a knuckle lock, Chris just pushes his face:lol. 30 seconds in, I'm in it
> 
> Japanese commentary is pretty great in its own right - so many little idiosyncrasies in their inflections, Jenglish (Lariatoh!), and mark out moments - can be real fun. I remember I really liked how my J-Cup DVD's didn't have any commentary at all. It gave the matches a bigger feel to me, listening to all the little grunts, subtle crowd noises, huge sounding pops and foot-stomping rumbles. Made it easy for me to be in the moment.


I like watching matches without commentary. If I'm watching and indy show I certainly don't want to listen to commentary because chances are it will add nothing to the show and just annoy me. And if I have the option of a different language or no commentary that's an easy choice as well. 

Even with today's product I think I would decide to watch the good matches without commentary because I feel like they really aren't enhancing the match any more and in many cases they ignore what I'm seeing and hearing. 

I'm sure I'm missing someone but unless the commentary has something like this on it:

Jim Ross
Gordon Solie
Monsoon/Heenan
Excalibur from PWG
Pre-TNA Mike Tenay 

I probably would no commentary and just listen to the crowd.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Commentary in WWE right now (main shows) is KILLING matches for me. It's hard to concentrate when you have Cole, Lawler and JBL arguing and bickering over bullshit EVERY WEEK and repeating the EXACT SAME STUFF night in and night out. It's not even commentary any more, it's just 3 losers babbling over a wrestling show.

And you missed one of the GOAT commentators for sure, LANCE RUSSELL :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jesse Ventura.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Commentary in WWE right now (main shows) is KILLING matches for me. It's hard to concentrate when you have Cole, Lawler and JBL arguing and bickering over bullshit EVERY WEEK and repeating the EXACT SAME STUFF night in and night out. It's not even commentary any more, it's just 3 losers babbling over a wrestling show.
> 
> And you missed one of the GOAT commentators for sure, LANCE RUSSELL :mark:.





The Hitman said:


> Jesse Ventura.



I was just about to add both guys. Jesse especially doesn't get nearly the credit I think he deserves, in his WWE days he was easily a top 5 color guy of all time. He was even really good in WCW for a while. He just had such an awesome voice, and his chemistry with Monsoon was excellent. The best commentary desk of all time was WWE in 1993. They had JR, Heenan, and Savage and they were absolutely perfect. Today's booth is by far the worst I've ever seen. I don't even blame the guys doing it, it's obvious Vince and Dunn decided that arguing and bickering and plugs for apps and charity is what is wrestling fans want to hear 

To me, there is just no excuse for JR, the greatest of all time, not to still be doing the play by play. He would absolutely do it if Vince offered the job, you can tell by how he talks about it in his interviews and podcast. They should put Cole, JBL, and William Regal on commentary for Smackdown, and allow JR and Lawler to do Raw and PPV's. And for god sakes let Lawler root for the heels again, he is totally unbearable these days. Eventually they should bring up Renee Young and see if she can handle it, personally I think she could be fantastic.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

So why don't you dudes create a show star rating thread, you know, like the one in Other Wrestling, where you collect all the reviews from WWE, WCW, ECW, weeklies, etc. I notice everyone watches tons of shit lately. It'd be relatively easy to do, just find your posts with reviews and link 'em to Cal. Yes, Cal. It has to be Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fairly certain such a thing used to exist in this section, but nobody could be arsed maintaining it so it died. Nothing has changed .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lance Russell is the best commentator ever [yes, even better than the Miz]. JR is probably second and third is Kurt Angle when he quoted DMX songs.



funnyfaces1 said:


> In many cases, he has held his own (Clash 1, Steamboat match), but Luger benefited from working with the best talent in the world. Put anyone in there with Ric Flair and let them have some hope spots and they will look a million bucks. Put Lex Luger against Michael Hayes or Mean Mark Callous and I go to sleep.


This is pretty similar to the conversations we have about Jericho only we're on opposite sides of appreciating the wrestler (though you think Luger sucks and I really don't think Jericho sucks). IDK what that adds to anything but it's kind of cool. "To each their own" [IDK what that means exactly but I am right and you are wrong is what I'm trying to get at]


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-greatest-factions-dvd/61691/

Can't be arsed C&P'ing them. Pile of wank :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

At least they put the two best WarGames on there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-greatest-factions-dvd/61691/
> 
> Can't be arsed C&P'ing them. Pile of wank :lmao.


Do they even try anymore.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-greatest-factions-dvd/61691/
> 
> Can't be arsed C&P'ing them. Pile of wank :lmao.


Jesus, what an awful line up, what's the point in that seriously?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably an effort to get more NETWORK subscribers.

"what, you don't like the matches on there? WELL SIGN UP TO THE NETWORK AND HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE GOOD MATCHES!!!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Wasn't his absence in 2005 following WM21 because he had to get shoulder surgery?
> 
> The suspension post-WM22 didn't count as part of the wellness policy. I think he got his first strike right before the Hogan match but Vince let him work without pay to avoid changing storylines. Which is also why he had that useless program with Carlito (which he still won, lol).


Orton got really ticked off by something a day or so before WM so his suspension was basically started there _(It's a blank memory what he did, I know the Hotel trashing was the 2007 incident, but not here either iirc)_ - they just didn't want to change the Mania card & w/good reason. That's why the next night Batista royally destroyed him "hurting" the shoulder to the extent of "needing surgery" while he took the time off till post-GAB.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-greatest-factions-dvd/61691/
> 
> Can't be arsed C&P'ing them. Pile of wank :lmao.


They couldn't even get a good Evolution tag match in there even though there are so many of them. :lmao

It's like they deliberately go for the worst they can find and put on the list.



HayleySabin said:


> Orton got really ticked off by something a day or so before WM so his suspension was basically started there _(It's a blank memory what he did, I know the Hotel trashing was the 2007 incident, but not here either iirc)_ - they just didn't want to change the Mania card & w/good reason. That's why the next night Batista royally destroyed him "hurting" the shoulder to the extent of "needing surgery" while he took the time off till post-GAB.


Never heard that before. Here is one example of the report right before WM that says he will take time off after the Taker match to get shoulder surgery. It also makes sense that he was injured because iirc, he didn't wrestle a single match for about a whole month leading to WM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kayfabe lives.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

unk6


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just bought that Raw 20th Anniversary Box Set thingymabob. Cost me £30 including delivery from Amazon.com. For 12 discs. Ok, DVD discs, but 12 of em. Cost £7 more including DELIVERY FROM AMERICA than it does for free deliver 2 disc bluray set IN THE UK. Fucking fremantle cunts. I HATE YOU FREMANTLE.

Bought it mainly just for my collection, didn't think I'd get the chance since it was never released over here + I *think* it went OOP pretty quickly. A bunch of retailers took it off the shelves too for some strange reason not long after it was released as well, but Amazon seems to have some left at first cheap prices.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You bought that? Color me surprised.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like owning TV shows. Got all the Live in the UK DVD's minus the very latest one, got the original Raw Homecoming DVD, own the first Raw and the Eddie tribute show that were bonus discs on certain sets. Got the Live in Italy shows too. Want the Top 100 Raw Moments set for the Raw 1000 ep but it's OOP here like everything else and it's expensive second hand (would cost me almost as much for that as it did for this 12 disc set lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the constant repeats that turned me off to getting that set. I own a few of those already on random dvds so bleh. The company never wants to try and branch out from their plenty spacious library.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't have paid for it at full price or anything, but given the price and it's rarity I'm happy with it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Raw 20th anniversary set is terrible. I can't believe they actually included the glorified house show from Germany in March 1997. There's nothing eventful that takes place there but for some reason, it's included.

Just finished downloading the WWE Network version of Bad Blood 2004 from XWT. Haven't seen Benoit/Kane in a long time, so rewatch time! :mark: (random observation: just realized that Benoit's tights didn't have 4REAL on them until around SummerSlam time.)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Germany show has the rather spectacular Owen Vs Bulldog match (aka GOAT Raw match imo). But the match has already been released so putting the entire show on the set was utterly pointless.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Greatest Raw match? Shit, I might have to go back and watch it again but I don't remember it being anything more than good.

That's the problem with the set. There's one worthwhile segment/match on the entire show so they decide to put the whole thing in just for that. As if having repeats wasn't bad enough. Not a single Raw from 2000 was there, how is that possible?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, talking about Owen/Bulldog, and the date is now 3/3, meaning it's the 17th Anniversary of the match! Holy shit!

Think I might go watch it again .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It isn't 3/3 :kobe

Oh, right, Europe :side:

Im on the ME of SVS 04 but I doubt I will be arsed to finish it tonight


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, that's a weird ass coincidence. :lol

Although only for us EU residents. But then again, the match took place in Europe so it all makes sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao just spent the last 5 minutes trying to find the Raw 15th Anniversary set that the match is on. Went though ALL my DVD's and couldn't find it. So I started putting them back and double checking them to make sure I hadn't missed it... was the FIRST DVD I pulled out :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vintage Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Today is March 3rd. And on this day in 1997, the match I've called the greatest Raw match ever took place!!! Wonder if it holds up...

Bulldog Vs Owen - European Title

Match is in Germany and YES, it took place at THAT Raw. The one that was taped in Germany and was terrible outside of this match and got the lowest rating ever which prompted Vince McMahon to hand the reigns over to Vince Russo. The fuck... ****** TONK MAN is on commentary? :lmao

Davey and Owen are the tag champs together, but over the last couple of months they've been teasing a breakup, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out here as they both wrestle to become the FIRST EVER European Champion!!!

LOVE the back and forth exchanges early on in this one. They flip around and counter each other and kip up and all that shizzle. Works very well for this match imo as both are friend and tag partners and want to prove to the other that THEY are the better man by potentially showing the other one up.

POWERBOMB~! Bulldog countered a Hurricanrana attempt into a pretty swank BOMB. Sends Owen to the outside, then holds the ropes for Owen to get back in because they are currently still friends.

Bulldog starts to build momentum, using his POWER now to prevent Owen from out wrestling him. Owen cheats just a teeeeeeny tiny bit to escape a hold, then sents Bulldog out and does the same celebration that Bulldog did earlier! Awesome. Owen then holds the ropes for Bulldog again just like Bulldog did earlier. They seem to still be on the same page... until Owen fakes a knee injury and attacks Davey Boy!!! And now it's Owen's time to shine!!! :mark:

What I love about this match is the fact that both men are HEELS, yet they are friends, family and tag team partners, so while they try to adhere to sportsmanship... they aren't above cheating if it means winning. Because this match IS for the European title after all, and it's the first NEW title created in the company since 1979 with the IC title!!! Which at least sort of explains why HTM would be on commentary given his history with the IC belt. That and he does a decent Stu Hart impression . Thankfully VINCE AND JR cover the match lol.

And on top of the HEEL schtick that they both try to "sneak" in, they put on a pretty swank WRESTLING match too. 

TOMSBTONE POSITION COUNTERED INTO THE POWERSLAM!! OWEN KICKS OUT!!! Owen is too hurt to get back into the match though, and a rollup exchange ends with Bulldog becoming the first ever European Champion!!!

Yeah still love this a ton. Not as much as before, but atm I'm struggling to think of a better Raw match still, but mainly because I'm not as high on the main contenders in this category lol. ****1/4.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Survivor Series 2004 review 

Where apparently Snitsky and Maven are main eventers :|

Match #1: Rey Mysterio vs Billy Kidman vs Chavo Gurrero vs Spike Dudley 
*
I remember this being pretty fun, too bad Spike is extremely bland as a heel or maybe just bland in general. Hopefully Kidman and Mysterio carry this to a good match and I remember it being a short but fun match. This was a really fun CW match, just a blast to watch all the way through. Even though I am not a huge fan of Spike or Chavo they held their own and is probably the best PPV match of the year for Spike and if it wasn’t for the Rey series it would probably have been the best match of the year for Chavo as well. Some might say this was a bit of a spotfest, and I would probably tend to agree with them in that regard. However, this was a borderline GREAT spotfest, and I was consistently entertained and never felt really bored at all. I wish Spike didn’t win because he’s probably my least favorite in the match but at least he didn’t even look that strong in the win because he won because he basically just shoved another guy off to get the cheap pin. Despite the winner I still enjoyed this a good bit. ***1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #2: Shelton Benjamin vs Christian 
*
I remember :mark: at least 5 times when I last watched this match, I love both of these guys so much, and they were both at their best ever here imo. This match held up tremendously and both of these guys put on one hell of a match. I loved Christian heeling it up this entire match utilizing Tomko and the title belt to do anything to win. Shelton of course played the babyface role to perfection as one would expect from him during his IC title run. This match just flowed great but the first 5 minutes or so were a little dull, not bad or anything, but it dampened my initial enjoyment of the match a bit. The last 5-7 minutes of the match were beyond amazing though, I don’t think that all of the cheating done by I Christian and Tomko was necessarily overbooked; it was just Christian being a good heel. Add in some awesome nearfalls+ some cool spots from our boy Benjamin and we have ourselves a very solid match, I still think the ME will be the MOTN but this will be #2 at the very least. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5 

Match #3: Kurt Angle, Carlito, Luther Reigns, and Mark Jindrak vs John Cena, Eddie Gurrero, RVD, and the Big Show *

WOW @ how stacked Cena’s team is. This is a bad match iirc not because its really boring just because Angles team gets buried big time :lol. The burial begins as Carlito is eliminated before the bell rings by leaving in a car after Cena chases him :lmao. This match is horrible outside of the fact that its hilarious that one team just dominated the entire match. RVD is the only one eliminated from team Cena and he gets pinned by a cheap roll up and I think it might have been a botch :lmao. After 5-10 minutes Jindrak and Reigns get eliminated and then Angle just gets dominated and buried all at once. This might be the WOAT SVS tag except I think the divas one this year. This match was a waste and brought nothing to the table except the hilarity of seeing Angle and his chums just get buried. *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #4: Heidenreich vs the Undertaker *

Ugh I remember this being bad, but because all the Heidenreich marks will shit on me if I skip this then I’ll watch it, not looking forward to it though, especially since it gets a shitload of time. Wow I actually really loved this match, I remember not liking it at all so a big surprise here. It wasn’t a 5 star classic of course but it was a great big man match, especially for someone who typically cant work a great match. I think I definitely need to watch the casket match these 2 had because I remember liking that match a hell lot more than I did this one, maybe I will like the casket match even more next time. Anyway this match was :mark: and should be watched by everybody, even if you hate Heidenreich. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #5: Lita vs Trish Stratus 
*
This ends by DQ within minutes. DUD 

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #6: Booker T vs JBL *

LOL I remember this being so overbooked it made the match bad. And since Booker T is in this match that automatically makes me lower my expectations. Yeah this was fucking horrible in so many ways. Overbooked is the definition of this match. If you look up overbooked in the dictionary, you will see 2 pictures, Cena/Orton from SS 2009 and this match. This featured a JOSH MATTHEWS run in. What the fuck was the point of that? I get having Virgil 2.0 interfering and shit but this made little sense for a fucking backstage interviewer to come from the back and try to interfere in the match. Besides that silliness, the wrestling was just horrible in general and it was simply not a good match. The crowd was behind Booker T but it was basically between a heel no one liked and a face no one liked, so you might as well root for the face. Despite this match being bad this is the lone disappointment on this show as the womens match got a DUD simply because it was short as fuck. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #7: Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, and Chris Jericho vs Snitsky, HHH, Edge, and Batista *

So apparently maven got taken out at some point during the show, too bad I couldn’t be arsed to watch all the backstage segments. Looks to be an awesome match, Snitsky took out Maven earlier so I guess he’s out already? Anyway two STACKED teams, and miss the SS style match in the ME, made it feel really special. Kind of wish Ric Flair was in this match instead of SNITSKY, because that loser does not deserve to be in the ME. Benoit was the first one eliminated, which is fucking stupid because hes fucking Benoit.. Batista is the first one off HHH’s team and I’m in shock of how Snitsky is still in. Then MAVEN comes down to the ring with no pop AT ALL, like Curtis Axel level of non-pop :lol. Snitsky gets disqualified and this match gets better, crowd seems happy. HHH then eliminates Maven(who rejoined the match apparently. We’re down to 2 on 2, Orton and Jericho vs HHH and Edge. Jericho then gets Speared by Edge and its 2 on 1. The ref seems to just say “screw it “because there’s so much illegal action that it’s funny. Orton RKO’s Edge and we’re down to Orton and HHH. They battle for a few more minutes till a Pedigree turned RKO sends HHH packing and Orton picks up an awesome win. Just an awesome match, in my top 5 of SS style matches and this one had the advantage of having an awesome storyline behind it. Orton went over and got the clean win. Wish Benoit would have stayed in a little longer but besides that just an epic match. ****
*

CAL SCALE: 5 

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 15 

Current 2004 PPV rankings 

1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX (20)
4: Survivor series(18)
5: Bad Blood (12)
6: Summerslam (11.5)
7: No mercy(10.5)
8: Unforgiven (10) 
9: Judgment day (9.5) 
10: Vengeance (8.5)
12: Taboo Tuesday(8) 
13: Royal Rumble (8)
14: The Bash (7)
*​
Armageddon 2004 is the last PPV I need to watch of 2004, this will suck hard


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Greatest Raw match? Shit, I might have to go back and watch it again but I don't remember it being anything more than good.
> 
> That's the problem with the set. There's one worthwhile segment/match on the entire show so they decide to put the whole thing in just for that. As if having repeats wasn't bad enough. Not a single Raw from 2000 was there, how is that possible?


My favorite Raw matches:

1. Two Man Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho ****3/4
2. Ric Flair vs Mr. Perfect Loser Leaves Town ****1/2
3. Davey Boy Smith vs Owen Hart EC Match ****1/2
4. Taker vs Jeff Hardy Ladder Match ****1/2
5. CM Punk vs John Cena Raw 2013 ****1/2
6. Benoit vs Steve Austin Raw 2001 ****1/4
7. Evolution vs Edge/Benoit/Jericho Raw 2004 ****1/4
8. Eddie Guerrero vs RVD Ladder Match ****1/4
9. Ric Flair vs Kurt Angle Raw 2005 ****1/4
10. HBK vs John Cena Raw 2007 ****1/4

Next up would be Orton/Benoit Raw 2004 and some Shield vs Hell No/Taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs RVD ladder match is a surprise. I think that one barely reaches being "good".


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Greatest Raw match, off the top of my head is either the tag team match (Power Trip vs. Benoit/Jericho) or Punk vs. Cena, imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie vs RVD ladder match is a surprise. I think that one barely reaches being "good".


That match rules. One of the best single ladder matches ever tbh.

I'm more surprised by him naming a SD match in a Raw list tbh .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't care for it much. The ladder took away from what both normally produce.

TLC III happened on RAW in his mind, brother. (he probably meant IV 8*D)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well if he meant TLC IV then he's even more wrong . Match is middle of the pack mediocre stuff as far as TLC's go tbh.

TBH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah it's AWESOME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*INSERT ONE OF THOSE AMBROSE PICS WITH THE CAPTION "NOPE"*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Use your smiley again instead, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Needs to be an official smiley tbh.

Thinking of attempting to get back on track with my PPV RAMBLES in the morning. But since most of the shows are gonna suck and there are too few good ones to watch in between the terrible ones, I need something else good to watch in between the terribleness that is 2003 PPV. Thinking another match series between some dudes. Recommendations, Mr Cody?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch the Bork/Angle series


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Don't care for it much. The ladder took away from what both normally produce.
> 
> TLC III happened on RAW in his mind, brother. (he probably meant IV 8*D)



Damn, I'm quite the idiot. Totally meant TLC III, just thought it had taken place on Raw, not Smackdown. The match I'm thinking of is the one Benoit makes his triumphant return after injuring his ribs, so as long as that's TLC III, I'm an idiot.

How do you not totally dig Eddie/RVD ladder match????? You even LIKE RVD, i think you need to rewatch that one mister, it's fabulous. Outside of Sheamus/JoMo and Benoit/Jericho, it's gotta be my favorite ladder match. Eddie was spectacular in it, it's where he invented (yes, invented, no one had done it before and it just popped into his head in the middle of the match) the sunset flip power bomb off the ladder.

Like I said, if you have time, give it a rewatch. Can't imagine what you wouldn't like about that match. It's brutal, vicious, not spotty at all, and built like a normal wrestling match that just happens to contain a ladder instead of the ladder being a prop for spots.




DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well if he meant TLC IV then he's even more wrong . Match is middle of the pack mediocre stuff as far as TLC's go tbh.
> 
> TBH.


Nah, TLC IV is really really good, but that's not the match I was thinking of, I just got my shows mixed up. I've got the perfect replacement though:

Taker vs Jeff Hardy Ladder Match

There, done and done. Match should have made my list anyway as it's one of my all time favorites and one of JR's best commentary jobs for any match.

Or, if not that:

Flair vs Angle Raw 2005

That could easily make the list. Hmmmm, gonna have to rethink this now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sunset flip off a powerbomb happened in RVD vs Jeff from SummerSlam 2001. So that may or may not be the debut of the move 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Needs to be an official smiley tbh.
> 
> Thinking of attempting to get back on track with my PPV RAMBLES in the morning. But since most of the shows are gonna suck and there are too few good ones to watch in between the terrible ones, I need something else good to watch in between the terribleness that is 2003 PPV. Thinking another match series between some dudes. Recommendations, Mr Cody?


It does.

As for the question: watch all the Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle matches. One happened on 2003 PPV so start from there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Sunset flip off a powerbomb happened in RVD vs Jeff from SummerSlam 2001. So that may or may not be the debut of the move 8*D


So you're saying Eddie lied in his book???? 

What makes me even more sad, I'm going to have to watch that failure of a match just to prove your right. That match should have been SO much better, boy did I ever have high hopes for it going into it. I don't know if it's flat out bad, or just incredibly, deeply, dissapointing.

Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle :mark: :mark:

The JD ladder match is really good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the two they had on Smackdown. Especially the one, I can't remember the date, that ends in a DQ. There is one that ends with Eddie ringing the bell that is spectacular, but the other one is even better, and a serious contender for MotY in 2003.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I'd be shocked if there wasn't a sunset ladder powerbomb in any Hardy ladder/TLC before 2002.

Cal watch the Windham/Pillman feud. You can knock them all out in less than an hour unless you decide to watch WarGames [which you're familiar with anyway].


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually like that ladder match more than the Eddie/RVD one. There doesn't need to be a laugh smiley b/c both matches have botched finishes. 

ok, now we can laugh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I actually like that ladder match more than the Eddie/RVD one. There doesn't need to be a laugh smiley b/c both matches have botched finishes.
> 
> ok, now we can laugh.



Pffffttttttrr :lmao

The difference is, RVD didn't botch the ending in match with Eddie, the ladder just gave out when he went to climb it because they had spent the previous 15 minutes bludgeoning each other half to death with it.

In the Hardy match, RVD tried the most ridiculous bicycle kick I think I've ever seen. Good lord. I'd love to know how much weed he had been smoking to think he even had the slightest chance of hitting Jeff with that kick :lmao

Damn you Cody and your encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling matches:cuss:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't be defeated on this notion :side:

I probably could, but I got reasons for my opinions. Something about RVD vs Hardy going all flippy insanity seemed...right. Eddie vs RVD had some awkward moments that took me out. Like I said, the gimmick didn't do their chemistry any favors. Would have preferred their grudge be settled in like a cage or something.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know you probably won't get this, but Mr. Cal, since you watched the Foley/Taker series a couple days ago, it's only right for you to watch another Foley series. How about the 1997 Foley/HHH series? You can watch the 2000 stuff too if you want, but the 1997 stuff is the first time HHH did something good. All thanks to Michael Fole.

Done with 1997 and already have a head start on the dreaded 1999. I did catch the hilarious Al Snow vs. Al Snow match :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I second that. But I've let it be known that regardless of how crap HHH is, Foley made all their matches together at least good. I say this daily, iirc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I second that. But I've let it be known that regardless of how crap HHH is, Foley made all their matches together at least good. I say this daily, iirc.


It should be common knowledge at this point that Mrs. Foley's baby boy some how, some way, always manages to give someone a top 5 or so career match. Austin, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, The Rock, Sting, Randy Orton....all were given a ****1/2+ match by Michael Francis Foley. He is God for a reason, you know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to credit to be being frugal and wearing wonderful flannel.


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Cesaro vs. Zayn time!


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

Wait where can I find the match? No network


----------



## Punked Up (Feb 12, 2012)

****1/2 - ****3/4 for Cesaro/Zayn


----------



## wpress (Nov 25, 2013)

Just watched the stream of Wrestlemania 25- it's the first time I've seen the Triple H-Orton main event, good lord the terrible finish! Triple H literally punts him, sledgehammers his brains in, beats the shit out of him and then Pedigree, 1,2,3. The promo and build up were pretty good too I thought, but can you get much more bland with a finish? (discounting whether or not you thought Orton should have gone over). I guess the crowd being dead from Taker v. Shawn took some of the excitement away as well, but now I can see where all the complaints from the main event come from.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just watched Lita vs. Mickie James from Survivor Series 2006.

It was okay, not great, but it was okay. A bit sloppy in some parts of the match. And good lord, Mickie was practically asking to get some perverts by wearing those skirts back then. :lol Not one of Lita's best matches, and it was decent for a "final match".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*1997 Write-Up*



Spoiler: 1997List



Owen Hart vs. Mankind (1/6): ***3/4
Bret Hart vs. Vader (1/6): ***
Undertaker vs. Vader (Royal Rumble): ***
Royal Rumble 1997: ***1/4
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Phillip LaFon & Doug Furnas (1/20):****
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (1/20): **3/4
Bret Hart vs. Mankind (1/25): ***1/2
British Bulldog vs. Doug Furnas (1/27): **3/4
Mankind vs. British Bulldog (2/1): **3/4
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Doug Furnas & Phillip LaFon (2/3): ***3/4
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Doug Furnas & Phillip LaFon (In Your House: Final Four): ***3/4
Vader vs. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (In Your House: Final Four): ****1/2
Owen Hart vs. Flash Funk (2/17): **3/4
Bret Hart vs. Sid (2/17): ***
Bret Hart vs. Triple H (3/3): **3/4
Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog (3/3): ****3/4
British Bulldog vs. Vader (3/17): **3/4
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. Vader & Mankind (Wrestlemania XIII): ***1/2
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (Wrestlemania XIII): *****
NOD vs. LOD & Ahmed Johnson (Wrestlemania XIII): ***1/2
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. The Headbangers (3/24): **3/4
Owen Hart vs. British Bulldog (3/31): ****
Bret Hart vs. The Rock (3/31): ***
Steve Austin vs. Mankind (4/7): ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Mankind (In Your House: Revenge of the Taker): ****1/4
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (In Your House: Revenge of the Taker): ****1/4
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (4/21): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. British Bulldog (5/5): **3/4
Mankind vs. Triple H (5/10): **3/4
Triple H vs. Flash Funk (In Your House: Cold Day In Hell): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. Vader (In Your House: Cold Day In Hell): ***1/4
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (In Your House: Cold Day In Hell): ****
Scott Putski vs. Leif Cassidy (5/12): **3/4
Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam (5/12): **3/4
Owen Hart/Davey Boy Smith vs. The Headbangers vs. Doug Furnas/Philip LaFon vs. Blackjacks (5/12): ***1/4
Owen Hart vs. Bob Holly (5/19): ***
Jerry Lawler vs. Goldust (5/26): **3/4
Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart & British Bulldog (5/26): ****1/4
Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels vs. Legion of Doom (6/2): **3/4
Mankind vs. Triple H (King of the Ring): ***1/2
Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (King of the Ring): ****
Rob Van Dam vs. Flash Funk (6/9): **3/4
Brian Pillman vs. Mankind (6/9): **3/4
Brian Pillman vs. Steve Austin (6/16): ***
Owen Hart vs. Goldust vs. Triple H (6/23): **3/4
Mankind vs. Brian Pillman (6/30): ***
Triple H vs. Mankind (In Your House: Canadian Stampede): ****
TAKA Michinoku vs. Great Sasuke (In Your House: Canadian Stampede): ****
Undertaker vs. Vader (In Your House: Canadian Stampede): ****
Hart Foundation vs. Austin/LOD/Goldust/Shamrock (In Your House: Canadian Stampede): ****3/4
Great Sasuke vs. TAKA Michinoku (7/7): ****
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. D'Lo Brown & Faarooq (7/7): **3/4
Triple H vs. Steve Austin (7/7): **3/4
Bret Hart vs. Goldust (7/7): **3/4
Tajiri vs. TAKA Michinoku (7/14): ***1/2
Steve Austin & Dude Love vs. Owen Hart & British Bulldog (7/14): **3/4
Owen Hart vs. Flash Funk (7/19): **3/4
Ken Shamrock vs. Vader (7/21): ***
Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin/Undertaker/Dude Love (7/21): ****1/4
Steve Austin & Dude Love vs. Godwinns (7/28): **3/4
The Patriot vs. Bret Hart (7/28): ***
Mankind vs. Triple H (Summerslam): ****
British Bulldog vs. Ken Shamrock (Summerslam): ***
Goldust vs. Brian Pillman (Summerslam): ***
Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart (Summerslam): ***3/4
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker (Summerslam): ****1/2
Owen Hart vs. Dude Love (8/4): **3/4
Owen Hart & British Bulldog vs. The Patriot & Ken Shamrock (8/11): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (8/11): ***3/4
Shawn Michaels & Triple H vs. Undertaker & Mankind (8/18): **3/4
Vader vs. Bret Hart (8/29): **3/4
Owen Hart vs. The Patriot (9/5): **3/4
Dude Love vs. British Bulldog (9/5): **3/4
Brian Pillman vs. Goldust (In Your House: Ground Zero): ***
Bret Hart vs. The Patriot (In Your House: Ground Zero): ****
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (In Your House: Ground Zero): ****
Vader vs. Bret Hart (9/8): **3/4
Triple H vs. Dude Love (One Night Only): ****
Headbangers vs. Los Boriquas (One Night Only): ***
Owen Hart vs. Vader (One Night Only): ****
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker (One Night Only): ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. British Bulldog (One Night Only): ****
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (9/22): ****
Bret Hart vs. Goldust (9/22): **3/4
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (In Your House: Badd Blood): *****
Tajiri vs. Brian Christopher (10/13): **3/4
Tajiri vs. TAKA Michinoku (10/20): ***
Bret Hart vs. Ken Shamrock (10/27): **3/4
Tajiri & Brian Christopher vs. Scott Taylor & TAKA Michinoku (11/1): **3/4
Ken Shamrock vs. Shawn Michaels (11/3): **3/4
Team USA vs. Team Canada (Survivor Series): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart (Survivor Series): ****1/4
Devon Storm vs. TAKA Michinoku (11/10): **3/4
Brian Christopher vs. TAKA Michinoku (In Your House: Degeneration-X): ***
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (In Your House: Degeneration-X): Not great, but fun stuff that's worth a watch
Ken Shamrock vs. Shawn Michaels (In Your House: Degeneration-X): ***
Dude Love vs. Billy Gunn (12/8): **3/4
TAKA Michinoku vs. Jerry Lawler (12/15): ***
Mark Henry vs. Brooklyn Brawler (12/15): :henry1
Owen Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (12/29): ***1/4



*Most Valuable Player: Bret Hart*

In a year full of big time stars that put out big time effort, the award had to go to the guy that represented the changes and configurations that defined the year of 1997. As we all know, 1997 was the year where the era of clean-cut cartoony heroes became passé and the in-crowd came in the form of the gritty anti-heroes with attitude. While Bret wasn't the guy that sparked that change, it was he who made the biggest and most necessary change in order for that new era to emerge. For all of the 90s, Bret was that iconic babyface, but when he turned heel during the Road to Wrestlemania, it signified better than anything the difference between the previous WWE that Bret was the figurehead of and the new WWE that didn't want Bret (or in his eyes, turned their back on him). With Bret shifting his persona, he acted as not only the representative of the past, but more importantly, he acted as the antagonist that the new breed needed.

What really made Bret's 1997 impressive was how we saw a Bret Hart that we never imagined was possible. When he finally turned, it was a moment of catharsis for a character with various internal struggles over the years. This turn allowed Bret, who did not have a reputation of being a premier orator, to speak his heart out. Once again, the delivery may not have been very impressive, but all the lashings directed at the fans and all the hateful rhetoric delivered to his fellow wrestlers felt so genuine that the delivery needed to be dirty and unsightly. Even more impressive was Bret's change in the ring that also served as a microcosm of the change going on. The man known for being technically clean and given the nickname "Excellence of Execution" began using a hybrid of a brawler and technical approach, a style never seen before in a main eventer. Once again this was a huge modification for Bret, but much to Cody's chagrin, Bret was second only to his own flesh and blood in the match quality department.

Typically in sports, the most valuable player award is granted not necessarily to the most talented individual, but to the one that held the most importance. Without a doubt in my mind, nobody was more necessary for the change that was on the horizon than Bret, and man did he not only adjust accordingly, but he excelled.

*Wrestler of the Year: Owen Hart*

Owen was always a guy that everybody agreed on to be an all-time great in the ring, but for most of us, it was always hard for us to truly pinpoint his "best" year in the ring. Well we may very well have a year to cite. From January all the way to December, Owen did not take a day off in the ring. Whether it was tagging with his brother-in-law, defending the Intercontinental Title in the midcard, or battling the main eventers, Owen always gave us matches that ranged from fun goodies to classic encounters. Part of Owen's resume in 1997 includes what may have been the greatest RAW match of all-time, what may have been the best multi-man match in WWE history, and a collection of highly underrated matches with Vader, Furnas, Lafon, and Foley among others. Even when the match may have not been that four star classic, Owen always gave us something to remember with either his incredible comedic timing, his crowd interaction, or his ability to work with each and every style of worker imaginable. It's only fitting that the King of Harts started the year off with the first match of 1997 and ended 1997 with its final match, because for twelve months, nobody performed at a consistently high level as Owen Hart.

*Match of the Year: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (Wrestlemania XIII)*

Quite possibly the only year in WWE history to have two five-star caliber matches, and it wouldn't be incorrect to go with either one for match of the year. What set this match apart from the other five-star bout (and any other match that year) goes back to a point I made in the MVP discussion. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin was not just a heated brawl; it represented the metamorphosis that defined 1997. Here in this match, the WWE babyface style was completely redefined right before our eyes. No longer was it about faces that played clean and by the rules. A babyface was now about doing whatever it took to tough it out. Even though Bret won the match cleanly, the fans were not having it with the reason and the method that he dished out punishment. Austin's never-say-die attitude here led to arguably the most iconic image in wrestling, and it made a believer out of a generation. No need to talk about why this was such a good match because millions of people have reviewed this match to death. Just know what sets this match apart from every other match in the history of the business, and know why this specific match was essential to the WWE.

*PPV of the Year: In Your House: Canadian Stampede*

Every so often, we get that PPV where it feels like everything that happened for the past few months culminated to this one specific night. Last year, it happened at Summerslam. In 1997, that culmination occurred on a warm July summer night in Calgary. The major feud going on in 1997 was a battle between not only wrestlers, but between neighboring countries. It only made sense that "bizarro world" was where everything went haywire. Canadian Stampede consisted of four terrific matches, all of which differed among one another. The opener was an old fashioned brawl not unlike the other matches in the high quality HHH/Foley feud. The next match was WWE's attempt at emulating WCW's cruiserweight division, and between TAKA and Sasuke, they succeeded in having a super fun sprint. The WWE Title match is usually the one that gets the least amount of acclaim out of the bunch, but I classify it as one of those hidden gems that should not be so underappreciated. Undertaker and Vader killed it out there with a simple monster heel story typical of Vader at his best, but this time it included a babyface that Vader has never faced in his life. Finally, the main event was exactly what I was talking about when I talked about culmination. No need to talk about it; just watch and listen. Watch how hyped up all ten men were coming into this match. Listen to how hot Calgary was for everything. Watch the mayhem and constant action. Listen to Stone Cold cuss out anyone and everyone. Watch how fun every moment of this match was. Listen to how much the fans in attendance bought everything. Most importantly, feel how great of a moment this match and the event as a whole was.

I was too young to ever experience wrestling in 1997 first hand, but from what I saw of it prior to this project, I always romanticized it as quite possibly the best year in WWE history. After going through the entire year, it is very obvious now that all those classic matches did a great job hiding some of the utter shit that took up just as much time as the best material. On one hand, you had so many wrestlers with impressive years (Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Undertaker, Vader, Michaels, Austin, HHH, Kane, Goldust, Pillman, Shamrock, Michinoku, Rock). On the other hand, you had a midcard filled with remnants of the New Generation era, which consisted of big stiffs like Chainz and Kurrgan and stables that infested television and PPV with awful matches and promos.

If I had to give a number to 1997, it would probably be somewhere between a *7/10* and an *8/10*. What really pushed it to that higher level was all the wrestlers that performed well in that year, and more importantly that all of the main eventers had career years. There is so much material that you cannot doubt the merit of. Unfortunately, RAW is two hours and PPVs are three. However, I can firmly say that the really really good more than outweighed any of the bad, and I can also firmly say that 1997 was one of the most "necessary" years in wrestling history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I commend you for the effort in the well written write-up _(redundant that a write-up is "well written", no? What else would it be? It's written, or typed altogether rather. I'm going off into a different tangent here...) _ but nonetheless my thoughts on the year a much less soured than your own. I felt too much just real junk happened instead of anything noteworthy. Like you happened to enjoy SO much more on the year than myself going by that list. And then there is a match I feel was > nearly everything Bret Hart did & put the eventual faction warfare later down the line to shame in the Chicago Street Fight. So, different views, as it always is. A year like any other w/it's share of strong matches in the mix. No denying that. Always will be a lot that turned me off during the year, tbf. I've made it known how that "era" wasn't exactly my cup of tea. Think of it as the reverse WCW - where the shit was only in the upper card and not in too large of a supply on a given night. Whereas WWF was the upper area being > but too much nonsense in the bottom. Then the Bret Hart stuff in the main event that I dislike a lot, yeah, I'm drowning w/not much for me to care about to save my life.

Also rewatched Austin vs Rock from WM 17 b/c I hated not fitting w/the status quo of the match. Things are back to normal. I know what did it too. A substandard transition of punches following the molten beginning went unappreciated by myself for a spell. Meh. We can have a lapse of sensibility. I demand a mulligan. Kind of weird how I've seen this match like honestly a fucking ton and still had to do this. Whatever. Submission portion of this match owned. Never did love it like how I did after tonight. Sharpshooters weren't pretty, but they didn't need to be. Both dudes were spent plenty by that point. Austin's Million Dollar Dream + constant turnbuckle counter :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess since Bret was such a big part of that year, it only made sense for one's opinion to be heavily influenced by how they felt about him or any other major wrestler for that matter. As you can see, I loved everything he did. I guess it's similar to how I let my opinion of Cena and Batista primarily define how I view 2005.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I've said many times on how I like Bret as a character that year. Hart Foundation stuff is all in the positive pile, pardon those Bret matches that all fell flat for me post-WM pardon the Canadian Stampede tag. But, you can use it the same on how you weren't feeling 2005 if that's a comparable scenario. WWF for a lot of the 90's wasn't my bag, as it were. It's much more than not being high on 1997, as much as Vince's promotion wasn't chalk full of interest for me in that decade. Again yeah the good stuff is good, blah blah. But man, when it got dull, it got dull. Yet, my favorite wrestler lies from this time. Go figure, huh?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Today I have the dubious task of watching Armageddon 2004, possibly the worst show of the year


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SMITTY said:


> Today I have the dubious task of watching Armageddon 2004, possibly the worst show of the year


Well, the fatal four-way is great, at least. DAT TAKER/EDDIE INTERACTION! :mark:

Honestly, outside of that and the Eddie/Booker/Taker segment from earlier in the night, I can't remember anything from the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody, did you actually not shit on the RVD/Jeff SS 01 ladder match? SHAME ON YOU. It's the worst. Literally. SS 01 was the latest Ramble I posted on my site yesterday. I gave it a DUD rating and shit all over the pile of crap. Also included a gif of the single worst ladder match spot ever. Urgh. Hate that match with a passion.

I shall watch the Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT series in between the crappy 03 stuff. Just means I'll have to watch JD sooner than I wanted to but oh well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well My armageddon 04 review got deleted  

Here are the ratings 

*RVD and Mysterio vs Suzuki and Dupree: ***1/2 

Santa Claus vs Kurt Angle: DUD 

Daniel Puder vs The Miz: DUD 

Bashams vs Haas and Holly: NO 

Cena vs Jesus: NO 

Miss Jackie vs Dawn Marie: NO 

Big Show vs Angle, Jindrak, and Reigns: **1/4

Funaki vs Spike: **1/2 

4 way: ***1/2 

CAL SCALE: 4 

Final 2004 PPV Rankings 
*
*1: Backlash (21)
2: NWO (20)
3: WrestleMania XX (20)
4: Survivor series(18)
5: Bad Blood (12)
6: Summerslam (11.5)
7: No mercy(10.5)
8: Unforgiven (10) 
9: Judgment day (9.5) 
10: Vengeance (8.5)
12: Taboo Tuesday(8) 
13: Royal Rumble (8)
14: The GREAT AMERICAN Bash (7)
15: Armageddon(4)* ​
Horrible PPV to end a pretty bad year for PPVS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao what a horrible card.

I'm back on Insurrextion 2003. Turns out I didn't even watch the first match so it's taken me 2 months to even attempt to sit through ONE match on the show :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I'm bummed that my review got deleted, I shat on the show a lot 

Just looked up the card for Insurextion 2003, good luck :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have bad memories of the show in general, never mind the actual shitty card . No wonder it's taken me so long to attempt it again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think I'll just scrap watching all of 2000 and just do reviews for that years PPVS then do 2001


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Need a 3-5 match series to watch tonight, please? Preferably not all 30 minute main event matches either. Something I could smash through in about an hour-an hour and a half?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Flux said:


> Need a 3-5 match series to watch tonight, please? Preferably not all 30 minute main event matches either. Something I could smash through in about an hour-an hour and a half?


Rock/Foley, since I just went through that recently. I'll post the dates in a second.


The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Shamrock [Cage Match] - Breakdown [9/27/98]
The Rock vs. Mankind - Survivor Series 1998
The Rock vs. Mankind - RAW [1/4/99]
The Rock vs. Mankind - Royal Rumble 1999 [I Quit Match]
The Rock vs. Mankind - Halftime Heat [Empty Arena Brawl]
The Rock vs. Mankind - St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1999 [Last Man Standing]
The Rock vs. Mankind - RAW [2/15/99] [Ladder Match]


If you'd like to shorten it to five, skip the first one and the halftime heat one. Neither are integral to the storyline.

RR & SVDM are the jewels of the bunch, if you'd like to watch just that. You will not get the full story if you watch just that, though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Been a busy weekend. Finally about to watch NXT. 

How was SmackDown?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD was a HUGE step down from recent weeks, but still has a fun opener and a good Sheamus match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Mysterio/Psychosis in ECW and WCW. Specifically the Bash at the Beach match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Flux said:


> Need a 3-5 match series to watch tonight, please? Preferably not all 30 minute main event matches either. Something I could smash through in about an hour-an hour and a half?


Other choices:

Bret & Owen vs. Steiner Brothers (aka the GOAT tag match)
Bret & Owen vs. The Quebecers at RR 1994
Bret vs. Owen at Wrestlemania X
Bret vs. Owen at Summerslam 1994 [Cage Match]
Bret, Owen & Hart Foundation vs. Team Austin at IYH: Canadian Stampede



Orton vs. Christian - Smackdown [May 6, 2011]
Orton vs. Christian - Over the Limit 2011
Orton vs. Christian - Capitol Punishment 2011
Orton vs. Christian - Money in the Bank 2011
Orton vs. Christian - Summerslam 2011
Orton vs. Christian - Smackdown [Cage Match] [8/31/2011]


Do you have the network? Posting the tv links, since I assume the network doesn't have those.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh my goodness Cesaro/Zayn was rad. The WrestleMania booking is a mess but honestly I don't really care when they're giving us matches like Shield/Wyatts and Cesaro/Zayn. Two MOTYCs in one week. I thought we'd have to wait til Mania to get something that could come remotely close to Shield/Wyatts and then they go and give us this beauty a matter of days later. It's not quite on the same level as the EC six man for me. Just didn't have that aura of epicness and the intangibles to trump what The Shield and The Wyatt Family did at the Chamber, but it was fucking excellent. Not sure if I prefer this to their 2/3 falls. Both are fantastic matches. And now we have Shield/Wyatts II to look forward to tonight. Oh man.  :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Insurrextion 2003*

Last UK only PPV. No surprise really because they usually always sucked. We would eventually get TV tapings over here so it's all good.


*Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - WWE Women's Championship Match*

First match and I'm already going NO. Good start!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Christian Vs Booker T - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Oh god. I really wanna skip this match because I remember being bored to fucking tears back in 03 when this seemingly never ending feud was going on. I swear my memory of these two is of them having about 10 fucking matches in a row :lmao. Likely not the case, but that's how it felt. I was not, and still aren't, a fan of Booker T. However, I DO love Christian. I wasn't fond of him back then though, it took his WM match with Jericho for me to jump on the "bandwagon". So I'll give this a watch to see if Christian was good back in 03 too. Maybe he can pull something half decent out of the useless Booker T.

Fucks sake, that terrible Booker T theme dub again.

:lmao starting writing this on Jan 17th 2014. It's now March 3rd 2014 and I'm only just getting back to the show. The thought of sitting through a Booker T match killed me for 2 months :lmao.

:lmao I just looked at the first match to remind myself what happened... and I didn't even watch it :lmao. Taken me 2 months to even begin watching ONE match :lmao.

Booker slams Christian around early on, then Christian uhhh... somehow gets in control and I genuinely don't remember how and fuck going back and watching it again lol. Yey sleeper hold... exciting...

Ha, Booker crotched himself on the ropes. Now maybe Christian can get some good shizzle in and... rest hold. Fucks sake. 09-current Christian would probably disown this Christian.

Fuck me this match is basically just Booker T dominating Christian, Christian getting about 2 rest holds in and then MOVES until Christian cheats to win. It wasn't horrible to watch because at least they were always doing something... but it wasn't good.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Austin books Teddy in a 6 man tag. Kane randomly walks up from behind and uhhhh... they stare at each other and Austin asks if he has a problem with him.


*Kane & RVD Vs L Resistance - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Oh, so that's why the Kane/Austin staredown happened. Austin tried to motivate Kane into being a monster again on Raw, but it didn't work so he Stunned him lol.

"These two guys look like they dressed in Elton John's closet" :lmao JR rules.

"We hate Frenchies" chant :lmao. AWESOME.

This match was basic as basic gets. RVD shows up the young uns early on, then they get the advantage. Control for a while doing absolutely nothing noteworthy, then a hot tag to Kane and the finish.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Al Snow is a backstage interviewer apparently. The fuck? Goldust :mark:. :lmao it's his crazy spaz days. Awesome.


*Rico Vs Goldust*

:lmao I'm actually looking forward to this match. GOLDUST :mark:.

"You Screwed Bret" for about 4 fans :lmao poor Earl.

Some nice kicks by Rico! Loved the spot where he smacks Goldust in the back of the head and Goldust falls against the ropes, but comes flying back with a LARIAT :mark:.

:lmao slap exchanges :lmao.

Rico is an odd one here. No, not his gimmick lol. He shows signs of being a really good worker... then seconds later he can look more lost than the passengers of Oceanic 815. Makes for an odd match lol.

:lmao JR loves Pussy Galore.

Goldust sets up for the... shit, I can't remember the damn name of it lol. SHATTERED DREAMS. There we go. The ref gets in the way so Goldust just casually puts his arm around him and walks him to the other side of the ring :lmao.

Quick powerslam from Goldie gets the win!!!

This was fun. Had some ups and downs but I liked it overall. Might end up being MOTN :lmao.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


HIGHLIGHT REEL TIME :mark:. I see they couldn't afford to ship over his set :lmao. Just a small bit of red material on the mat and 2 shitty stools :lmao. Ha, shitty stools.

Jericho berates Newcastle . Bischoff is his guest on the show. God I miss Bischoff's theme song. Was awesome. At least I own that Anthology CD set with it on :mark:.

Let's sum up this segment up to the point Austin shows up:

Tossers

Football

Fish & Chips

Bad Teeth

Mad Cow Disease

Gotta love (aka bored to absolute death of) those generic English references lol. Damn fat stupid yanks can't come up with anything new :side: .

:lmao Austin claims they are ruining a perfectly good PPV. Ummmm, fairly certain this segment is the highlight of the night lol. All 3 guys go back and forth with each other and involve the crowd and all demonstrate some great mic work. Me likely.


*The Dudley Boys Vs Christopher Nowenski, Rodney Mack & Teddy Long*

BACK THE MACK~!

:lmao Teddy looks like he's about to cry stood on the apron :lmao.

Oh fuck me D-von and Mack going back and forth with quick pin exchanges to start and fuck me it looks AWFUL. Sloppy execution of basic fucking roll ups and they even look like they are half arsing kick outs :lmao.

:lmao Nowenski gets tagged in and D-Von continues to be awful with a DREADFUL small package. Yes, D-Von's small package is dreadful 8*D.

TEDDY LONG VS SPIKE DUDLEY :mark:. Battle of the skinny arms!!!

Boring stuff, hot tag and The Dudley's start dominating and attempt to bring out the tables. Spike ends up alone with Teddy and wins. Yawnathon.

Nowenski goes through a table after the match to make the fans happy as per usual.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Test Vs Scott Steiner - Special Guest Referee Val Venis*

:lmao oh god no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Street Fight*

:lmao they just show the video package for BAD BLOOD rather than making one for Insurrextion like they normally would. So the video is hyping up a HIAC match but we only get a street fight .

HBShizzle at ringside with Nash. Flair with HHH.

:lmao 2 minutes into this match and FLAIR is bleeding. Yes. Flair. The Manager :lmao. HHH and Nash are having a shitty brawl on one side and HBK/Flair are taking all the attention away from them :lmao.

LOL, referees try to break up HBK/Flair, so Nash just shoves them all out of the way and lets them go at it again, but they end up buggering off backstage and we are stuck with just HHH and Nash .

:mark: HHH and Nash are at the top of the ramp. Now if only they could fuck off backstage too... .

HHH gets flashbacks of JD (I think?) as Nash attempts to put him through the announce table, and manages to escape without that happening again. GOD FORBID SOMETHING EXCITING HAPPENS IN THIS MATCH HUH HHH?

Oh hey, look over there, it's HHH clearly blading! 

:lmao my version of the show just died on me :lmao. I SHOULD take it as a sign, but eh, I've come this far I might as well finish it. Better be on the Youtube or something...

Ok found it on Dailymotion. Yey...

Ref bump in a street fight, is there ANY FUCKING POINT lol?

Flair! Chair! Boot to his face!

HHH decks Nash in the head with the chair. Another ref but Nash kicks out. Urgh, this is still going lol.

Double team to Nash until HBK shows up once again. SUPERKICK TO FLAIR~!

PEDIGREE TO HBK~!

JACKKNIFE TO HHH~! But Earl is dead and the other ref got taken out by HHH so Nash just covers HHH until MINI FLAIR shows up and... gets attacks by BIG FLAIR .

Nash and Flair go at it allowing HHH to recover and deck Nash with the Sledgehammer. Earl finally wakes up and thank fuck this is done.

Best parts of this match involved 2 people who weren't even in the damn thing :lmao.

What a terrible "PPV".

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -0.5*​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:|

What a horrible PPV :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

First PPV I've given a MINUS CAL SCALE SCORE to :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I didn't even notice the minus :lmao

Getting back on JD 2000 now, looking forward to the ME


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD 2000 rules. Think I gave it 17 on the CAL SCALE.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just glancing at the card it seems like a :mark: show


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Triple Threat, Benoit/Jericho and the Ironman match are all great


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

So watched another 3 PPV's on the Network and the quality is awesome, nothing bad to say about it, tbh.

Rebellion 1999:

Jarret/D'lo Brown- ***
Gangrel/Godfather- DUD
Venis/Henry- DUD
Divas Match- DUD 
Jericho/Road Dogg- ***1/4, 
Kane/Show- **1/2
X-Pac/Bulldog- DUD
3 Way Tag- **
Rock/HHH- ***1/2

No Way Out 2001:

Show/Raven- **
Jericho/Eddie/X-Pac/Benoit- ****
Stephanie/Trish- ***1/4
Austin/HHH- ****3/4
Lawler/Richards- DUD
3 Way Tag- ***
Angle/Rock- ***1/2

WCW Slamboree 2000:

Artist/Candido- **
Hardcore Title Match- **1/2
Stasiak/Hennig- DUD
Steiner/Morrus- *
Mike Awesome/Kanyon- ***
Luger/Bagwell- DUD
Douglas/Flair- **1/4
Sting/Vampiro- **
Kidman/Hogan- ***
DDP/Jarret/Arquette- ***1/4


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Paige/Emma was pretty damn good. Most physical divas match I've seen in ages. :lmao @ BETTER THAN BATISTA chants when Emma hit the powerbomb.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Angle/Michaels WM 21 or Jericho/Michaels WM 19. Go.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Paige/Emma was pretty damn good. Most physical divas match I've seen in ages. :lmao @ BETTER THAN BATISTA chants when Emma hit the powerbomb.


I saw that match today as well.. loved it 

One of the best divas matches following the Lita/Trish era, if I were to rank the best matches since 2007-now it'd look something like this

1-Beth/Melina I Quit
2-Emma/Paige Arrival
3-Mickie/Melina Backlash 07
4-Kaitlyn/AJ Payback
5-Mickie/Beth London RAW
6-McCool/Melina NOC 09
7-AJ/Natalya TLC 
8-Beth/Kelly in Buffalo , I think it was NOC 2011
9-Beth/Mickie/Melina JD 08
10-Beth/Eve Vengeance 2011

HM : Beth/Tamina Elimination Chamber, Victoria/McCool Victoria's last match and the Survivor-Series tagmatch from 2008 ( Maryse's breakout performance)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Cody, did you actually not shit on the RVD/Jeff SS 01 ladder match? SHAME ON YOU. It's the worst. Literally. SS 01 was the latest Ramble I posted on my site yesterday. I gave it a DUD rating and shit all over the pile of crap. Also included a gif of the single worst ladder match spot ever. Urgh. Hate that match with a passion.
> 
> I shall watch the Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT series in between the crappy 03 stuff. Just means I'll have to watch JD sooner than I wanted to but oh well.


I've always accepted it for what it was, the spotty nature of both putting on a show. Always found it fun. I remember your review plenty - which is why or who, rather, knew would be shocked to see someone not hate it.

At least that means you'll see Brock vs Show to go along w/the Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT stuff. JD '03 is bad, but I've never found it punishing to sit through bad. Probably b/c how god damn short all the matches were pardon the two really good ones were.



SMITTY said:


> Well My armageddon 04 review got deleted
> 
> Here are the ratings
> 
> ...


You still like the show WAY more than me. :lmao

Opener is dogshit, Cruiserweight championship & handicap were bad/bland, & the main event is clunky.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Raw tonight is going to be very interesting. Shield/Wyatts II :mark:

Also, looking forward to a Taker/Lesnar segment. It will be really interesting to see what the crowd will be doing tonight. Supposedly, many of them have organized a plan with specific protocol to what fans are to do during the show. :lmao One of them is to literally turn their backs to Orton, HHH, Batista, and Stephanie, whenever they're on the show. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao one of the specific protocols is to not mess with Undertaker. Nobody ought to mess with the deadman :taker. Got a few friends going to the show. Chicago is going to make the Attitude Era crowds that I'm watching look like a funeral.

More cities should threaten to stage hijacks, because then it forces the WWE to up its game every night. That means goodbye R Truth. Goodbye Miz. And most importantly, goodbye UC! Hello :brock :taker unk4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll be Pissed if the crowd shit on Taker's segment some how. I'm a big Punk fan too, but fuck that shit. Surely they are not that stupid...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It will be so awesome if Punk doesn't show up at all. I will finally feel the relief of knowing that we will likely not see him again. For a long time at least. My favorite scenario would be him actually showing up and claiming that he's retiring. I would actually :mark: for something to do with the useless cunt. He can take his buddy, Useless Cunt, with him too. 

"Watching" A Cold Day in Hell atm. Mankind/Malvia was comedy like everything to do with Rock's first incarnation. Just wanna finish the main event and move on with the rest of the shows. Is Taker/Austin any good?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Austin is pretty dull tbh. Like most of their matches it just ain't good.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Don't know how you can objectively call Punk a useless cunt, really. At all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Punk showing up a formality at this stage? If he does, was it a work then or what?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't know why but I literally couldn't be less interested in Raw tonight. I think people taking it so fucking seriously has taken the fun out of wrestling as a whole.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Crowd will make things interesting, plus Brock/Taker and the Shield/Wyatts rematch are reason enough to care for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shield/Wyatt Family has my interest as long as it isn't one of those matches that they end within minutes in a DQ for no reason.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I don't think they'd fuck around with a quick DQ finish, especially with an already rabid crowd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Austin's entrance for Cold Day in Hell. He got absolutely no reaction and that's just so unusual for my ears when his music plays.



RhodesForWHC said:


> Don't know how you can objectively call Punk a useless cunt, really. At all.


That's the thing, I'm not being "objective". I don't care for the guy and want him gone permanently. There's absolutely no positive emotion coming out of me from his presence.



Brye said:


> I don't know why but I literally couldn't be less interested in Raw tonight. I think people taking it so fucking seriously has taken the fun out of wrestling as a whole.


I feel ya. All these morons make fun of the "WWE Universe" in facebook taking wrestling seriously yet here they are, looking like the biggest marks ever crying because their favorite guy isn't scripted to hold a belt. The fact that he gets to put on awesome 20 minute matches nearly every week isn't enough, HE MUST WEAR THE BELT!!!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao true true. At the moment I'm thinking Wyatts take the win with Ambrose and Reigns going at it. However, I wouldn't mind a Shield win with an eventual rubber match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. Would love for them to have a deciding match, but I agree with you that they'll book the Wyatts to go over to keep Bray looking strong for the Cena match, while also furthering The Shield's inner turmoil.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> That's the thing, I'm not being "objective". I don't care for the guy and want him gone permanently. There's absolutely no positive emotion coming out of me from his presence.


Always wondered what it is about him that you hate so much. I thought I read you say that you're big on in ring skills in some thread, and Punk has great in ring psychology. Plus he's great on the mic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I feel ya. All these morons make fun of the "WWE Universe" in facebook taking wrestling seriously yet here they are, looking like the biggest marks ever crying because their favorite guy isn't scripted to hold a belt. The fact that he gets to put on awesome 20 minute matches nearly every week isn't enough, HE MUST WEAR THE BELT!!!


You mean the exact thing you would do if your boy Randal wasn't wearing the belt :side:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flux said:


> Need a 3-5 match series to watch tonight, please? Preferably not all 30 minute main event matches either. Something I could smash through in about an hour-an hour and a half?


Windham v. Pillman. The longest one might not even ten minutes. IDK if it's still the time to watch stuff for you but w/eeeee.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I'm looking forward to RAW for once which makes a pleasant change. The awesome Chicago crowd, plus The Shield vs The Wyatts II, plus the small possibility of Punk returning :mark: (dirt sheets seem to be reporting it..). Yeah, I'm interested.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Easily Windham's best work in the 90s. Pillman had a bunch of great matches with main event wrestlers where he pulled off some great underground babyface showings. Windham/Scorpio rules too. Windham/Regal unfortunately did not. Barry did not know what the hell he was doing there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Always wondered what it is about him that you hate so much. I thought I read you say that you're big on in ring skills in some thread, and Punk has great in ring psychology. Plus he's great on the mic.


He's just unlikable. You've seen how people talk about The Miz being punchable with no likable qualities? That's exactly how I feel about Punk. I'm also not a fan of his sloppy in-ring style. It's one thing to work that way if you have some intensity but he has NONE whatsoever. I give him his due when he does something I enjoy but for the most part, I can live without his existence on the TV screen.



SMITTY said:


> You mean the exact thing you would do if your boy Randal wasn't wearing the belt :side:


Not really. In 2011, I was actually supportive of giving Christian an extended run and wanted consistency in their feud. I want Bryan to get a proper run too, but unlike his unbearable marks, I have some patience and know it is gonna come soon, just wasn't planned for WM. And in 2012 (aka the worst year ever), I just stopped watching towards the second half when Punk was stinking up Raw every week and Orton had meaningless matches with Del Rio and Barrett weekly.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I don't understand why so many people knobslob Taker so hard. He's just another part timer taking up space. This is especially true this year. He's going against another part timer, the result is not in question, and it enhances nobody. The match has literally no purpose. He should't be immune to the backlash, isn't even close to a GOAT, and needs to just go away. I would love for somebody to explain to me why they say "they better not mess with Taker" because that's fucking retarded in my humble opinion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

This should get interesting...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just think that if their giving the title to BATISTA at Mania instead of the most over guy since Austin then thats just dumb. Your missing the chance to give a guy a CAREER MOMENT while making your entire universe happy, it just doesn't seem smart. 

C2D, as an Orton fan, do you want Orton vs Batista? Considering theres no chance that Dave is going over


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that's the dumbest post I've seen in here for a while .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I don't understand why so many people knobslob Taker so hard. He's just another part timer taking up space. This is especially true this year. He's going against another part timer, the result is not in question, and it enhances nobody. The match has literally no purpose. He should't be immune to the backlash, isn't even close to a GOAT, and needs to just go away. I would love for somebody to explain to me why they say "they better not mess with Taker" because that's fucking retarded in my humble opinion.


Well colour me retarded then.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Easily Windham's best work in the 90s. Pillman had a bunch of great matches with main event wrestlers where he pulled off some great underground babyface showings. Windham/Scorpio rules too. Windham/Regal unfortunately did not. Barry did not know what the hell he was doing there.


Do you like the Windham/Dustin Rhodes team? They're awesome. 92 was Windham's last great year. I have always known about Windham/Regal but I'll be damned if I can remember watching it. Winhdam had a verrrrrrry mixed 1993 and even if Regal had a really good one I don't like the Steamboat series as much as most people. I honestly think the best Steamboat/Regal is 9/25/93. Much, much prefer it to Fall Brawl. Regal had a great, great 1994, though. That's probably his career year.

Pillman was the best wrestler in the US in 1991. He had an even better 1992 but wasn't on Arn/Steamboat/Rude level. Actually I don't think he was that far off Rude. Maybe I'm just being forgetful. How fucking good was Brian Pillman? Goddamn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SMITTY said:


> I just think that if their giving the title to BATISTA at Mania instead of the most over guy since Austin then thats just dumb. Your missing the chance to give a guy a CAREER MOMENT while making your entire universe happy, it just doesn't seem smart.
> 
> C2D, as an Orton fan, do you want Orton vs Batista? Considering theres no chance that Dave is going over


Is WM30 Bryan's last WM? I'd like to think the answer to that question is no. Therefore, I don't get all the obsession with them HAVING to do it NOW. He will get his moment, relax and have some patience. He will get to headline WM in the future, numerous title runs and probably a Royal Rumble win too. It's not the end of the world if he doesn't walk out of WM30 with the title. It's funny how things change. I remember 6 months ago everyone talked about how Orton is just the puppet and the real build-up is for Bryan to beat HHH at WM. Now it looks like they're going in that direction and suddenly it's a bad idea and Bryan NEEDS to close the show with the title.

Yeah, I'm fine with that match. I know Orton is gonna lose but I'm just happy he's heading into the biggest show of the year having a match of relevance. I'd take that over a throwaway undercard match with Kane any day of the week. Do I wish Orton had a better opponent in a prominent match-up? Hell yeah, but I'll take what I get.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Well that's the dumbest post I've seen in here for a while .


there was a guy in the WWE section that claimed he'd rather be a respected millionaire than a disrespected billionaire


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Guess it's easier to call it a dumb post than to state why you think it is.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Guess I should clarify to that I'm not asking to argue if he's a GOAT but argue why he's immune to being shit on when he's clearly not serving a purpose at this years WM.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Batista vs Bryan tonight should be tons of fun.

Not necessarily as a wrestling match, but the atmosphere and storytelling is going to be off the charts.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

yeah im with cal on this

spoiler alert: none of this shit fucking matters. none of the matches have any significance whatsoever. they never have. wrestling is fucking stupid entertainment

the reason people like Taker is because he is fucking awesome and entertaining. which is the entire bloody point of watching wrestling


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista vs Bryan has me actually pumped for tonight. :mark: The crowd reaction will be epic here.



bigbuxxx said:


> Guess I should clarify to that I'm not asking to argue if he's a GOAT but argue why he's immune to being shit on when he's clearly not serving a purpose at this years WM.


The reason is really simple. He's earned his part-timer status because he wrestled full-time or semi full-time for nearly 20 years and gave it his all to the business. There's a reason why he's one of the most respected men in the industry. On top of that, he comes back for one night and 9/10 he ends up putting on MOTN. That's the reason why he's seemingly immune to being shit on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Guess I should clarify to that I'm not asking to argue if he's a GOAT but argue why he's immune to being shit on when he's clearly not serving a purpose at this years WM.


True. Orton/Batista is all i need to get my entertainment. :side: Mania needs at least one box office match, Taker provides that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker IS Mania. That's why he gets a free pass.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> True. Orton/Batista is all i need to get my entertainment. :side: Mania needs at least one box office match, Taker provides that.


OK but that proves my point. WWE should be having marquee match-ups with their regular talent. They shouldn't have to use Taker, Batista (lol), Rock, HHH to bail them out because they can't build a good feud or a good regular competitor.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They do have marquee matchups with regular talent (Cena/Wyatt). There are very few people who are on Taker's level of star power. That's why he typically works with other part-timers.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I don't see Cena/Wyatt as marquee. The match will probably be no more than good and the winner isn't in doubt.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

With how they're building Bray, I'd say the winner is in doubt. Plus, nobody said that the match itself has to be good in order to be a marquee matchup. That said, the match should definitely deliver.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Batista vs Bryan? Reminds me of this match they had:






Batista/Bryan will virtually guarantee to be Batista's best match since returning because they'll likely give them good time to deliver. Although I liked Batista's match with Ziggler on Smackdown last week, definitely better then those awful ADR matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Batista vs Bryan? Reminds me of this match they had:


Apparently, Dave was supposed the squash Bryan in that match, but disagreed and the match obviously went on longer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> OK but that proves my point. WWE should be having marquee match-ups with their regular talent. They shouldn't have to use Taker, Batista (lol), Rock, HHH to bail them out because they can't build a good feud or a good regular competitor.



To answer your question, Takers Streak is the most important match at every WrestleMania, wwe would be retarded not to keep cashing in on it while he can still go. He always has a kick as match (exempt WM 27), he sells tickets and PPV's, why the hell would they put him out to pasture when he is still capable of having a match like the one he had with Punk last year??? That's like burning a briefcase with $1,000,000 inside and then hoping you find $1,000,000 more.

Taker having a spot isn't holding anyone back, WWE's booking is. Instead of giving HHH 2 matches with Taker, they should have been building up younger guys and putting them in that spot. Like Punk last year, the match he had with Taker wasn't for the title, and he lost, yet it allowed him to overshadow The Rock and John Cena at WM cause everyone always cares more about the Taker match than any other on the card. With the exception of his Money in the Bank match, that match with Taker was the biggest spot Punk had ever been given in the WWE. It only enhances a talents image to step In the ring with the Deadman.

I'm cool with Taker facing Brock cause it'll be an awesome match, but if they weren't putting DBry in the WWE title spot, I think he should have taken on the Streak this year. The Story would practically write itself, and it would be interesting to see how the fans reacted. Punk was a heel in his match with Taker last year, but both got cheered evenly. Imagine the response Bryan would have gotten. Bryan wouldn't be hurt at all by losing to Taker, it would be the biggest match of his career and Taker excels at putting people over while still winning.


----------



## BornBad (Jan 27, 2004)

So the Chicago fans are going to turn their back on Daniel Bryan vs Batista ??

Vintage WWE outsmarting the "Fans"


----------



## tailhook (Feb 23, 2014)

The Lady Killer said:


> With how they're building Bray, I'd say the winner is in doubt. Plus, nobody said that the match itself has to be good in order to be a marquee matchup. That said, the match should definitely deliver.


Bray/Cena isn't even a question of who will win in this PG era, particularly since the work of the 'leg injury'.

Bray will win, guaranteed.

The whole point of having Cena go over Rock at the last WrestleMania is to hopefully use that heat to put guys over as legitimate competitors. He let Bryan go over at SummerSlam. He'll be losing to Wyatt at WrestleMania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena wants to be moved into the position where he puts future guys over,Bray is winning at mania and that makes plenty of sense.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Apparently, Dave was supposed the squash Bryan in that match, but disagreed and the match obviously went on longer.


Yeah I've heard that. 



tailhook said:


> Bray/Cena isn't even a question of who will win in this PG era, particularly since the work of the 'leg injury'.
> 
> Bray will win, guaranteed.
> 
> The whole point of having Cena go over Rock at the last WrestleMania is to hopefully use that heat to put guys over as legitimate competitors. He let Bryan go over at SummerSlam. He'll be losing to Wyatt at WrestleMania.


I'm hoping Bray will win. But still it's Cena, and we've seen a heel been built up well only to be fed to Cena many times. But with Cena getting on in age now, with injures become more frequent for him, and the fact he's been THE guy for 9 years now, I hope he realizes that it's important to focus on the talent of the future now - and the fact that Cena himself won't last forever and eventually someone will take his spot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a shame we'll never get to see heel Cena in his peak. :sad: Will be one of the greatest "what ifs" in history.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Do you like the Windham/Dustin Rhodes team? They're awesome. 92 was Windham's last great year. I have always known about Windham/Regal but I'll be damned if I can remember watching it. Winhdam had a verrrrrrry mixed 1993 and even if Regal had a really good one I don't like the Steamboat series as much as most people. I honestly think the best Steamboat/Regal is 9/25/93. Much, much prefer it to Fall Brawl. Regal had a great, great 1994, though. That's probably his career year.
> 
> Pillman was the best wrestler in the US in 1991. He had an even better 1992 but wasn't on Arn/Steamboat/Rude level. Actually I don't think he was that far off Rude. Maybe I'm just being forgetful. How fucking good was Brian Pillman? Goddamn.


Of course I love the Windham/Dustin team. Those two killed it at Great American Bash 92. The Clash match against Steamboat and Douglas ruled too. Oh, and the Austin/Williams match. And Anderson/Eaton. Yeah, Yeah is right. 1992 was Windham's last great year.

I don't remember enough of his 1993. Well I do remember the great match against Scorpio of course. And I remember a match against Muta that flopped. He had a good match with Arn too and some nice tag match stuff of course. And then the weak Flair match. Yeah, it was a very mixed year.

Regal had to be the best in the world in 1994. Or at least the best that wasn't one of the AJPW Holy Trinity. But I think Regal that year was just as good. Yeah, his TV Title reign is better than almost every world title run that ever occurred.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

tailhook said:


> Bray/Cena isn't even a question of who will win in this PG era, particularly since the work of the 'leg injury'.
> 
> Bray will win, guaranteed.


I would lay 3:1 (my 30 to your 10) with at least 4 members here that Cena will win.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> With the exception of his Money in the Bank match, that match with Taker was the biggest spot Punk had ever been given in the WWE. It only enhances a talents image to step In the ring with the Deadman.


I totally agree with the Punk part and again that's proving my point. My point is that this year his match is pointless. Of course it's making WWE money but it's still pointless and should be shit on. I also agree with you that it will be a good match, i'll enjoy it, and it'll likely MotN but that's not the point.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if Cena went over at Mania and then did the job in a rematch at Extreme Rules. Certainly don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Bray's winning at WM.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed. Never put it past Cena winning.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just five more minutes until one of the most important RAWs of all-time occur :mark:

EDIT: My goodness did we teleport to Montreal in 2005?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Should have been Batista or Barrett but still it was a good trolljob.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Should have been Batista or Barrett but still it was a good trolljob.


Nah, Heyman is the perfect guy for that. He's godly on the mic so he was able to speak while keeping their attention and then doing the smooth transition by tying it to the Brock/Taker feud.

He might be the greatest mic worker ever. Never seen someone who works the mic so smoothly and flawlessly, never missing a beat.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm really happy that they're linking last year to this year with this Taker/Lesnar feud. Adds so much more to this match. I was worried they were gonna ignore it.

DEM USOS CHANT! My city knows how to pick out talent.

EDIT: THEY DID IT :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Nah, Heyman is the perfect guy for that. He's godly on the mic so he was able to speak while keeping their attention and then doing the smooth transition by tying it to the Brock/Taker feud.
> 
> He might be the greatest mic worker ever. Never seen someone who works the mic so smoothly and flawlessly, never missing a beat.


I love Heyman but Vince is my #1.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It was great mic work from Heyman for sure but I always imagined how funny it would have been if Batista came out instead. He is hated already so the boos would have been much louder than before. :lol

Even Lesnar did okay on the mic too. Better than usual


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Good tag team match. The Usos are the Tag Team Champs! :mark:

Would've prefer The Usos to win the titles at Mania, but whatever. Crowd was hot for them.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hope all you Usos haters aren't gonna shit on that, good moment and a good match

Happy that Chicago didn't shit on it


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Shield/Wyatts II was fun, not as great as their first encounter but still fun nonetheless. I enjoyed the story of dissension within The Shield when Roman and Ambrose weren't around to give Rollins the tag and Rollins being tired of being the mediator and letting them fight for themselves. The match was wild and chaotic and I enjoyed the heel out of it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not really sure what Ill rate Shield/Wyatts II. It didn't have he action the first encounter had but the story telling was amazing. I'll go with somewhere in the ***3/4-**** range. I have the first at ****1/2 and current MOTY.

Btw, am I the only one who wold have preferred The Usos to win in the manner that they did last week? Made for better TV imo. Then again, the retards in the crowd last week booed them fpalm

EDIT: I've made up my mind. Shield/Wyatts II definite **** match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I have Shield vs. Wyatts II at ****. Awesome TV match, obviously not on the level of their PPV match but I didn't expect it to be. The story with Rollins and Ambrose/Reigns finally working together again was awesome. The action was non-stop.

:mark: for the Ambrose-Wyatt battles in the match and Ambrose's big boot sell.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good match, but except for their Smackdown match, these two have wrestled the exact same match ever since 2011. Now what is Sheamus going to do for Mania? This feud isn't even a feud anymore. Normally I'm fine with wrestlers wrestling the same match again and again if it's good, but I know Sheamus and Christian can do so much better than this. Like four star good.

Shield/Wyatts: ******


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Christian/Sheamus was pretty good, it had good back and forth action. Too bad the crowd wasn't having it :lol


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Shield comp sets have arrived, thanks to Seabs!!!! Popped the first disc in, and they look great. :mark:

One thing that stands out is that Seth has improved SO MUCH on the mic. Just a year, year and a half ago, he sounded so unnatural on the mic!


_ETA:_ As for tonight's Shield/Wyatts match, it was fun and high energy, but it came off as a bit botch filled. Which actually works for the storyline. The Seth turn was a nice swerve. Well done, WWE.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sheamus vs. Christian has been done so many times I couldn't care enough to pay attention. WWE always does this shit. Give them mic time to build a feud rather than just repetitive matches.

I guess Christian-Sheamus takes place at Wrestlemania in a No DQ match or something.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I would enjoy this Sheamus/Christian ''feud'' more if it wasn't so damn one-sided. So Christian eliminated Sheamus in the Elimination Chamber, and now Sheamus's has beaten Christian, what like 3 times since? It's reminding me of the Christian/Orton feud with how one-sided it is. Book these guys in tag matches - as just something different from them wrestling each other every week because it's killing the interest when you do the same thing every week. If they're building to a match at Mania between the two, why are they doing the same match every week? I'm enjoying heel Christian and the fact he's actually got some direction, but I'm getting tired of the lazy booking in this feud.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp, off to pull a Choke2Death and replace current WWE with older material. Even if that older material consists of a feud as shitty as the Ministry vs. the Corporation.

Or there's always some Randy Savage. Yeah, 1986 Randy Savage. Now that's quality.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Outside of Shield/Wyatts I didn't like that Raw at all. Literally nothing to do with Punk either. I just don't buy into WWE anymore. Thank fuck for their Network though. I'll still funnel them my money even if I hate the current product.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Shield vs. Wyatt Family - ******
WWE vs. Chicago crowd - *******


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Best RAW of the year.

If this was 2 hours instead of the stupid 3. It would have been ONE HELL of a 2 hour show. Hour 1 was epic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield/Wyatts from tonight I'd probably go no higher than ***1/4 on. Certainly wouldn't rate it anywhere near as high as a lot seem to be. Good match, but something really felt off... whole match felt really weird to me. Things just weren't clicking all that well imo, but it wasn't bad. Rollins at the start was awesome, and then at the end when he left his teammates... and then how Reigns and Ambrose started getting somewhat on the same page. Ambrose did a decent job being a crazy fucker but the performance paled in comparison to at the chamber, and Reigns... well he kinda did his normal thing, which is fine and all, but he wasn't even tagged in. 

So yeah, not bad, but not great. I was a bit disappointed, but the EC match is still a classic to me, so it's all good. I got what I wanted out of The Shield/Wyatts UNLESS they wanted to do a tornado No DQ style tag. Otherwise, I can't see the magic from EC ever coming back.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I don't understand why so many people knobslob Taker so hard. He's just another part timer taking up space. This is especially true this year. He's going against another part timer, the result is not in question, and it enhances nobody. The match has literally no purpose. He should't be immune to the backlash, isn't even close to a GOAT, and needs to just go away. I would love for somebody to explain to me why they say "they better not mess with Taker" because that's fucking retarded in my humble opinion.


Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar & the world of wrestling is pumped to see it. At WM, no less. If you really have to try and have it be "explained" then you shouldn't be watching WWE to begin w/.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar & the world of wrestling is pumped to see it. At WM, no less. If you really have to try and have it be "explained" *then you shouldn't be watching WWE* to begin w/.


That sounds like excellent advice.

So how long until Drake Younger gets released? I give him eighteen months before he gets the shovel and the future endeavors.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems like the only scenario. I know what to expect from 'em. As should anyone else.

Future WWE Champion. Gonna rocket to the top.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> Hope all you Usos haters aren't gonna shit on that, good moment and a good match
> 
> Happy that Chicago didn't shit on it


I'm gonna shit on it because The Usos had to be the Outlaws to win them and didn't even let them win on the ppv :lmao :lmao & the match was just a carbon copy of their shit fest at Elimination Chamber.

I'm just glad they finally won so I don't have to ever see them as tag champs again after their stupid title reign that probably won't last that long is over.



> DEM USOS CHANT! My city knows how to pick out talent.
> 
> EDIT: THEY DID IT


You mean CM Punk?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Raw in Chicago. Opens with Punk's music and out comes... Heyman. Smart move tbh, he's one of the few people who could do that and not cause the fans to go mental . Good promo and I loved how he turned it into Lesnar Vs Undertaker. Heyman rules. Not happy that they keep feeding Henry to Lesnar though.

New tag champs. Urgh. Though either team winning was shit .

CESARO. Against Big E again. And Swagger gets involved again. Break up already...

SHIELD VS WYATTS :mark:. Tremendous fun and I LOVED how the Wyatt's kept getting Ambrose to cost Rollins a potential tag, and having ROLLINS be the one to jump off the apron and fuck off worked really well. REIGNS losing it after that and killing everyone was :mark:. Doesn't touch the EC match obviously but for the time they got + the angle they worked into the match I still thought highly of it .

SHEAMUS VS CHRISTIAN :mark:. Ok so this DEFINITELY can't be a WM match now, right? They've wrestled like 3 times in the last few weeks already lol. Unless they give them a big stipulation match I just don't see it. Not that I'd really complain if it did happen without a stip or anything. Because otherwise I doubt WWE would have anything planned for Christian at WM and Sheamus would probably get stuck with some hack like Barrett. Was that a "this is awful" chant? LOL, fucking retarded crowd. Outside of a few moments, when they aren't trying a CM Punk chant they are pretty wank tonight lol. A genuinely GOOD match and they piss all over it lol. Morons. They make me not want Punk to return.

Christian attacks Sheamus so... FEUD STILL ON GOING :mark;.

Wasn't this show supposed to have a guest host?

BRYAN PROMO! Only guy in the building (aside from Punk assuming he's there...} who can actually go out there tonight and get the right reaction and have the fans love him. :lmao at drowning Steph and HHH out with boos and Punk chants.

Oh yeah there's the guest host. With Ziggler... guess he likes JOBBERS 8*D. Ha, Dolph won. Only because of Paul. LOL.

Who else going in the HOF? PAUL BEARER? OOOHHHHHHHH YESSSS!!!!! :mark:

A second BIG E match? Fuck off lol. Yey Cesaro saves the day . Break up? Dammit Zeb shut up! DO IT CESARO! Bah. REAL AMERICANS DON'T SHAKE HANDS... REAL AMERICANS HUG! 

Cena. LOL. 

BRYAN MATCH!!!! Vs... Batista? Awwwww . Bell rings and... I think Batista needs oxygen. Long walk to the ring tbf. Match was crappy. :lmao at HHH getting kicked in the head mid promo while Bryan was on the mat. Pedigree to Bryan. 

:lmao no Punk return :lmao. And oh look NO RIOT :lmao. I'm shocked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah, almost forgot one thing...

JAWBREAKER LARIAT :mark:. Made me smile .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

From Dean Ambrose of all people too. Amazing.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar & the world of wrestling is pumped to see it. At WM, no less. If you really have to try and have it be "explained" then you shouldn't be watching WWE to begin w/.


and tbf I don't watch WWE stuff except for what's pimped on the forums so you don't have to worry about that. I was curious. Sorry about that Mr. High and Mighty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't take it personally, like you clearly have. You asked and the answer itself is quite simple/expected as to why Undertaker has the love he does. Especially in regards to him working WM.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> the answer itself is quite simple/*expected* as to why Undertaker has the love he does.


if i expected it, i wouldn't have asked. i just don't get the love for the guy. i never have and probably never will.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fair enough, man. A situation that's common enough for any wrestler, tbhayley.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Don't usually watch NXT, but watched Arrival yesterday and really loved it. I've seen Cesaro and Zayn before, so I expected greatness from these guys. Easily the MOTN. Also digging Adrian Neville, talented dude. Can't stand Bo Dallas though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bo Dallas = Amazing.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Anyone else not really dig Shield/Wyatt's II?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, it wasn't as good as the first match obviously, but hot damn, it still ruled imo. To resume it in short words, though, it wouldn't be "Armageddon", but rather "*The Dean Ambrose Show* With A Lot Of Crazy Shit Going On As Well". But atm, I don't know what would I rate it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I thought it was too much chaos, EC was chaos but everything flowed, everything had a purpose and was nailed to a tee. This just felt _off_ Harper and Rowan randomly coming into the ring and hitting the others off the apron was done too many times.

Rollins flying everywhere tho was awesome as was Roman's SPEAR. God damn if they aren't overused but they have got me with Roman, love his Spear.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I found it to be another brand of fantastic.

Meanwhile the rest of RAW was the usual shite.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah I agree it didn't felt completely alright, and I thought they might have done something rushed, but I still loved how they integrated A LOT of story (particularly the breakdown of the Shield) into A LOT of chaos. Done fantastically at that.

The rest of Raw wasn't that good, indeed. Heyman did a good trolljob and I enjoyed the HHH & Steph/Bryan segment, the rest wasn't up for me. Even Sheamus/Christian, which I thought was a good match for what it was but it was just the same thing as almost every single of their other matches, and the crowd shitting on it didn't help. If they're gonna have a WM match, PLEASE make it No DQ.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Great crowd on Raw, as expected. Thought Taker would be there though.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Batista vs Bryan? Reminds me of this match they had:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you still feel that way now?

Lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol Batista is done, last night was the ONLY slight hope of him having a decent/average match and it failed. Guy is literally WOAT and deserves to be "boootistaed" at every sighting. Now THERE IS A GUY HOGGING SPOTLIGHT, honestly cant think of one positive he brings


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Batista is awful and needs to just go away. What are they going to do w/ the title match now? Heel Orton VS Heel Bootista? Regardless of how they play it, the match will be a guaranteed flop.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Lol Batista is done,





RhodesForWHC said:


> Batista is awful and needs to just go away.


2 YEARS. 

:|


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Unfortunately. In an ideal world WWE Management would heed the reactions to Batista and get him the hell out of the Main Event. Hell, preferably out of a wrestling ring. If they must include him, include him in some backstage role of some sort.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

He's a fucking idiot for coming back so out of shape, especially seeing as he knew he was going to win the Rumble and work the WM30 main event. It's disrespectful to everyone in the company and everyone watching the product. He gets on twitter and talks about how he loves the business so much and whatever. Maybe he does love it, but if so he should've gotten his cardio sorted out before he returned. 

PS. I was one of the people who wasn't negative towards him coming back. Oh how that has changed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> PS. I was one of the people who wasn't negative towards him coming back. Oh how that has changed.


Same here, Thought id give him a chance and see what happens.  I didn't think he'd win the fucking Rumble though and headline Mania if im honest, let alone be in this sort of condition.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> He's a fucking idiot for coming back so out of shape, especially seeing as he knew he was going to win the Rumble and work the WM30 main event. It's disrespectful to everyone in the company and everyone watching the product. He gets on twitter and talks about how he loves the business so much and whatever. Maybe he does love it, but if so he should've gotten his cardio sorted out before he returned.
> 
> PS. I was one of the people who wasn't negative towards him coming back. Oh how that has changed.


I agree. He also bashed this era, talking shit about the talent on the roster.. yet, now, he's worse than 3/4 of the roster. Seriously. He's been god awful in the ring. Lots of people in the back that are mediocre at best in the ring could get deliver pretty good match with Bryan, but Batista just fucking dragged him down. There's no way he should be in the Main Event, he's in awful shape, right now, and there is nothing he brings to the table ATM.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was hoping we get 2010 Batista, awesome heel who can still work a match. 

Truth be told I have a feeling that once he wins the title at mania 30 he'll drop it to DB at ER and then become a midcarder


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heel Batista can cut good promos but that's no good to me if he's gonna stink it up this bad in the ring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield/Wyatts rematch was chaotic and fun, but imo doesn't hold a candle to the EC match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Missed all of RAW due to...college related events, but from what my friends have told me, it was an eventful episode.

Did Bryan carry Batista to his best match since coming back?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My rating for Raw this week:


:ambrose2/10

Guy stole the show. Much like Elimination Chamber, his performance was impeccable.

Also so happy that Drake got signed. Don't see them doing a great deal with him but as long as he's doing what he wants, I don't care.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flux said:


> Also so happy that Drake got signed. Don't see them doing a great deal with him but as long as he's doing what he wants, I don't care.


Who?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> He's a fucking idiot for coming back so out of shape, especially seeing as he knew he was going to win the Rumble and work the WM30 main event. It's disrespectful to everyone in the company and everyone watching the product. He gets on twitter and talks about how he loves the business so much and whatever. Maybe he does love it, but if so he should've gotten his cardio sorted out before he returned.
> 
> PS. I was one of the people who wasn't negative towards him coming back. Oh how that has changed.


As the great Jim Ross has recently said, the only way to get in in-ring shape is to get in the ring. It can't be replicated on the treadmill or in a MMA cage. Batista's got to start working in the ring to get in that kinda shape.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Do you still feel that way now?
> 
> Lol.


And here I was thinking that Bryan could get at least a decent match out of Batista, but nope, Batista's terrible. :side:

Overall I thought RAW was decent last night. Heyman's opening promo, and the Bryan HHH/Steph promo were both good. Uso's title win was a feel good moment, Ziggler winning over ADR was nice, Wyatts/Shield was good stuff, didn't expect Rollins to be the one to walk out on The Shield so that was a cool swerve. Christian/Sheamus was a decent match although I'm getting a little tired of the lazy booking in their feud. And the final segment after the crap Bryan/Batista match was fun, Bryan kicking Triple H in the head when he was on the mic was :lmao. HHH/Bryan is definitely happening at Mania now. I didn't get hyped up for a potential Punk return, so I wasn't disappointed that he didn't show.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@Cal & TLK, an independent wrestler by the name of Drake Younger. WWE signed him today or yesterday. Another smaller guy and pretty generic looking, but every time I've seen him interviewed or on videos out of character he's made me grin like a beaming idiot, hence why I'm happy. Plus I enjoy his work a fair bit (although I haven't seen a vast amount, just enough) so thats a plus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Credit to Sono Shion

:lol


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I really hope Shield/Wyatts wasnt the last match that we see from those teams. 

While it wasn't as good as the first one I really liked how you felt that the match was on the brink of just becoming totally out of control at any time. I feel like they need to settle this is an atmosphere where they don't have to follow any rules. If the Shiled is splitting up they should go out in the biggest, wildest match possible. 

I also found it interesting how the Wyatts were so much better as a team than the Shield. I think the Shield made one tag the entire match. They did a terrible job working together. I really hope that what Rollins did was a way to show that he wants Ambrose and Reigns to start working together.



Edit: Drake younger doesn't seem like a wrestler that would fit into WWE's mold at all. I enjoy his matches but I think I do so much because he's pretty much willing to kill himself in the ring. Also he's an insanely nice guy and is a former drug addict that has done an amazing job cleaning himself up. So how couldn't you root for him both kayfabe wise in his matches and just root for him in general?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Dean Ambrose 2.0 got signed 

First 2000 PPV review will be up soon


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why did I suddenly remember about the whole 30 Years Of Mania countdown I had going? :side:

Ah whatever. So basically, this is what my WWE's top 10 matches of 2014 looks _*at the beggining of MARCH:*_



> 1) Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival (****3/4)
> 2) The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber (****1/2)
> 3) John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17 (****1/4)
> 4) Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble (****)
> ...


Added to a few other good matches like Sheamus/Christian SD, Paige/Emma and Bryan/Cesaro... man. The overall pack may kinda suck, but it's cool to know they still care to put on at least one thing great every week.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Finally managed to fix my PC, so here's some reviews:

*Cesaro Vs John Cena (17/02/2014 WWE)* - you know it's a hellishly hot period in a promotion when you're debating whether something of this quality will make a top 10 list come year end. It's also a testament to just how talented Cesaro is that, not even two months deep into the year, my recommendation list for his performances are already five matches down. 2013 was the year for him to prove his detractors wrong, 2014 seems to be the year that he breaks away from any competition for his crown. Finally being given worthy opponents on a weekly basis is another major reason as to why this is the case; no longer is Cesaro stuck trying to spraypaint gold lacquer over a stinking turd. Most notably of these opponents has to be Cena, considering the level of chemistry both seem to have with each other. Cesaro may show freakish strength and ability to make smooth just about anything in his arsenal yet the back-and-forth nature on display between both men here is remarkable considering Cena isn't a small worker that can play to Cesaro as base. Both are just smash-mouth, godlike powerful men and that's exactly how this match was structured. Both men came into this believing they had the power game on lock, however, both men left having driven home their game beyond what they original envisioned. What I mean by that is both men had to put in newer, higher impact moves to keep their opponent down. Cena's usual shoulderblock takedown bridges into his "five moves of doom" yet after two takedowns and a spin-out powerbomb attempt, Cesaro was still outworking the company's top guy. Likewise for Cesaro in attempting his Cesaro Spin, that Cena transitioned into a wicked, desperation DDT and, thus, having to rely on even heavier offence than he dishes out. The elevated, over-the-rope suplex on Kofi from last year was impressive but doing that to a 250lb man? That's just inhuman.

Trying to pinpoint and extrapolate on beautiful spots within the match is rather pointless, though, considering each spot played as a build to the next and there just wasn't a rest in the exquisiteness of both men. While it wasn't the main of the show, it was given the standard WWE formula for one and thank the powers that be that this got time. For a guy that one year ago was looked down upon by Vince, it's hard to argue that Cesaro isn't now a made man.



*The Wyatt Family Vs The Shield (WWE Elimination Chamber)* - I'm not sure what has caused WWE to increase their workrate and focus on bulding heavier wrestling matches but I'm all the more for it; especially if this new direction produces gold as the past while has been. The heralded Rush/Casas trios from last year lay mere months as the best multi-man match in recent memory, it seems, especially when "recent" I don't think applies anymore in the case here.

On a first watch I was rather disappointed that both teams refrained from turning to chaotic violence at the start of the match yet, upon this second viewing, I can see the angle they want to go for. If these men go hard, the match will be thrown out and the ultimate goal of proving superiority will be lost. Still, the pairings were as brutal as a straight tag could allow, regardless. Harper rubbing Rollins face into the mat with his boot after he tags out, Bray offering no leeway with his smashes and Reigns just unleashing the animalistic power upon the country folk all added to why the opening moments were just as great as the last. Bryan pretty much holds all my praise for the pacing of his Rumble match against Bray yet Bray showed he has a more than capable hold upon how to structure his runs. For a guy I looked down upon as a good character on a weaker worker, he's certainly changing things up. Similarly, Rowan remains a weaker link within the mix yet he tries so unbelievably hard that you can't but admire his tenacity. Giving him some throwbacks and specific spots and means to work really has helped him come a long way over the months. The star of the brawl, however, has to be Rollins. As someone looking to be lost in the shuffle post breakup of The Shield, his performance here showed the real truth to his future being blindingly bright so long as he maintains his levels of charisma here. He's obviously not at Bryan's level, yet there were spurts of similar greatness within his control segments.

That isn't to discredit Reigns' involvement, though, as he still remains my top pick for future potential. The work he puts into the micro-elements of the match are uncanny and it's almost depressing that no one ever picks up upon them. Leading up to this match, Reigns was, without fail, the single Shield member that was itchingly quick to bring the fight to The Wyatts. It was always him that looked fear in the eyes and laughed. Yet not this time. At the start of the finishing stretch when he realised that Ambrose was AWOL and Rollins was in as many pieces as the announce table, he had an unfamiliar expression upon his face; that of overwhelming uncertaintity and fear. It was nothing but delicious icing to this scrumptious cake. Yeah, this is easily my match of the year.


*Elimination Chamber (WWE Elimination Chamber)* - as far as one-two knockouts go, Summerslam has this show beat. That said, this was still a decent secondary main to the classic put on earlier. Why wouldn't it be? The opening twenty or so minutes is Cesaro, Sheamus, Bryan and Christian doing what they were born to do; be AWESOME. The little nuances of each pairing created in the weeks leading to the chamber came to the foray here as sub-plots within match as a whole. Between Cesaro and Sheamus slugging each other like WWE's own Hansen/Kawada and Christian trying to ring true to his "one more match" addage via going for the plucky Bryan that was injured at his hands, there's something to get behind for everybody. On a first watch I stopped once Cena entered as I knew, despite being unspoilered, that politics and shoddy booking would kick in and I just wished to enjoy the spectacle that had taken place without the sour mood. Honestly, I think that helped me see this match better than most who witnessed it in full. If I had known, too, that Cena's entrance meant an even higher level workrate than before I'd have happily continued as there was some great moments before the inevitably contrived eliminations and booking nonse (most notably the Sheamus/Orton and Cesaro/Cena spots).

While the interference spots (hopefully) fulfill a deeper purpose and hardly lasted long, they do prevent this from attaining the level it started off reaching for - a level that was as high as any outing this year. I suppose in a sports entertainment realm we have to substitute some physical greatness for the end goal (and this end goal best come soon before the crowd relegates itself to apathetic emotion) but that doesn't mean we cannot lament the loss, regardless. One thumb way up, one thumb half-down, I suppose.



*Sami Zayn Vs Cesaro (27/02/2014 WWE)* - I guess both Seabs and I share a favourite wrestling formula, then. Is there anything better in wrestling than an extended workover with a great FIP presence littered with hope spots? And these guys nailed that perfectly. I have a continued disdain for wrestlers who shrug off any leg injuries to deliver offence that relies on lifting their opponent yet Zayn walked the tightrope sublimely in showing that it took mustered energy to do so and took something out of him afterward and disallowed him from capitalising on each moment. Selling was strong on the whole, as well, and perhaps peaked not in selling his own injuries but selling the legitimacy of Cesaro's offence (taking his swing like a rat caught in a mousetrap was a much welcomed take on the oft used move). WWE hardly makes use of the one-count kickout and, thus, when it is added to a match it matters. Moreover, it wasn't as if Zayn never sold it off (kicking out via perseverance despite appearing semi-concuss and, additionally, that Cesaro never connected fully). I assume that's going to play similar to the Taker/Punk spot from Wrestlemania 29 but that's a whole other can of worms. Quite honestly, I'm trying to downplay mentioning Cesaro as there's only so many times one can type "best thing ever" in a post without it looking a bit much but the guy really is just that. I don't truly remember their 2011 encounter but this is definitely their strongest bout within WWE and a really strong contender for match of the year on the whole. It's almost frightening that we had a near perfect iteration of a contemporary match and a mere four days later its placing is challenged by yet another great encounter from the same promotion. WWE is on one helluva bender and I'm enjoying every single minute of it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah, will you also review Sheamus/Christian and Shield/Wyatts II? I think the reason for this increased focus on in-ring material that has occurred for about 2 1/2 years is because the international audience responds more to wrestling than promo work. At least that's what Cena said.

EDIT: The Brood vs. The Hardy Boyz and Michael Hayes from the 5/17/99 episode of RAW is so ahead of its time. Like a Shield match fifteen years ago. And what do they do to follow this fun match? Al Snow doing a eulogy for a deer head that Hardcore Holly destroyed a week before named Pierre. :lmao How stupid can wrestling be?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished the rest of Raw now. Batista/Bryan was nothing special but it wasn't terrible either. I hope Batista can get back in the game the more he wrestles. His promo work as a heel is good so at least that's something.

Sheamus/Christian is being ruined because they just keep having the same match over and over. That's not how you build a feud up, idiots. And that feeling of relief knowing that the chances of Punk appearing for another good while are way down... :mark:

I think I'll enjoy this RTWM. Batista/Orton has me automatically invested thanks to Randy, Taker/Brock is Taker/Brock, HHH/Bryan should get interesting once the challenge is accepted and Cena/Wyatt is a fresh change for Cena after being in title matches/main events for almost a decade at WM.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So I actually watched a lot of the show unspoiled because I thought this show might be fun. Instead it just reminded me that WWE aside from 2-4 good matches a week they give you is still really crappy. I really wanted the Cult of Personality psych but I thought it was done pretty lousy. Heyman talked about Punk loads for literally no reason. I thought for sure that this pretty much guaranteed that Punk was coming out at the end of the show with them showing all the Punk signs, making a massive deal about someone who walked out and isn't there and making him the focus of the show at that point. I guess it was a cool way of keeping people watching and keeping the fans sorta controlled by telling them Punk was there when he wasn't. So I guess it was pretty cool how they managed it. I don't particularly care if Punk comes back or not right now but I wanted him there last night just for the pop. Lesnar/Henry brawl was pretty good but they've conditioned me to not care about this version of Brock Lesnar because he's not playing Brock Lesnar at all really. He's just a run of the mill top heel at the top of the card. Which is neat but there's so much wasted potential there that I've just given up now. I'm sure Taker/Brock will have a good match but I just don't care at this point because it's not what I want out of a Taker match at Mania.

Usos won the titles so there goes their Mania match I guess. I liked how they finally realised Road Dogg doing his catchphrases was counter productive to them being heels and getting the babyface team over at least.

Shield/Wyatts II was a really fun brawl if not clunky at times. Camera work was horrible. Ambrose did a big dive and nobody saw it bar the live crowd. Angle was ok but the best part was it gave me more hope that they might do the 3 way at Mania and not split for good afterwards with Ambrose not turning on Reigns. Work through your problems please guys. Shield babyface run would be immense and Shield/Wyatts III could honestly imo be one of the biggest WWE matches of the decade if they keep their distance for a while now and have a trigger point where things escalate again. I thought Ambrose was the stand out guy in the babyface role here btw.

The Bryan/Hunter stuff I HATED. Reminded me why I'm glad I don't sit through this crap usually. Bryan's "LET'S HIJACK RAW" line made me sigh. I hate lines like that. I really hate the idea of going to Raw and "hijacking" it. I hate the idea of WWE thinking it's cool when crowds like do that. But most of all I hate how fucking stupid this angle is booked and how Hunter is having one of the worst character runs of all time. There was no way that Hunter should have walked out of that promo in tact. Imagine Bryan was Austin and Austin was faced with that. No chance in hell that Hunter walked out that ring without a stunner, probably Stephanie too. So Bryan looks like a geek again as per usual. This is one of the worst angles I've ever seen because it's made literally everyone on the roster look like shit. Literally everyone who stood on that stage and didn't stand up for themselves and especially the guys who got beat down week after week with no revenge. Bryan's probably getting the win at Mania but it doesn't change the fact that they've demasculated him so much as someone who can be seen as a legit top guy outside of his core fanbase. And of course Hunter still has to be the cool guy heel who does his heel shtick but still thrives for cheers to serve his ego. Just watch the first minute of NXT last week and you'll know what I mean. Bryan/Batista didn't even try to be a match and I actually can't wait for them to do Orton/Batista now for the trainwreck it will be. Commentary doesn't help either btw. King and JBL calling Bryan a goat and a gnome is a great way to make someone look like a top star and then they build Hunter up as some great guy who people should love for giving us everything we see. Hunter takes maybe the worst bump ever when Kane falls off the apron. Naturally Bryan has to get his ass kicked by everyone at the end because it'll all be fine when he gets one win after 100 ass kickings. It's just so awful.*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rah, will you also review Sheamus/Christian and Shield/Wyatts II? I think the reason for this increased focus on in-ring material that has occurred for about 2 1/2 years is because the international audience responds more to wrestling than promo work. At least that's what Cena said.


Yeah, I heard similar reasoning elsewhere as well. Gotta wonder why the push is only now unless they want to girate more of a bounce come the international network release. 

When was Sheamus/Christian? That sounds a treat. Rematch will happen when I watch Raw sometime this week or next. Really need to jot down what I loved in that Real Americans Vs Sheamus/Christian tag off Raw. Drat good for obvious reasons.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *So I actually watched a lot of the show unspoiled because I thought this show might be fun. Instead it just reminded me that WWE aside from 2-4 good matches a week they give you is still really crappy. I really wanted the Cult of Personality psych but I thought it was done pretty lousy. Heyman talked about Punk loads for literally no reason. I thought for sure that this pretty much guaranteed that Punk was coming out at the end of the show with them showing all the Punk signs, making a massive deal about someone who walked out and isn't there and making him the focus of the show at that point. I guess it was a cool way of keeping people watching and keeping the fans sorta controlled by telling them Punk was there when he wasn't. So I guess it was pretty cool how they managed it. I don't particularly care if Punk comes back or not right now but I wanted him there last night just for the pop. Lesnar/Henry brawl was pretty good but they've conditioned me to not care about this version of Brock Lesnar because he's not playing Brock Lesnar at all really. He's just a run of the mill top heel at the top of the card. Which is neat but there's so much wasted potential there that I've just given up now. I'm sure Taker/Brock will have a good match but I just don't care at this point because it's not what I want out of a Taker match at Mania.
> 
> Usos won the titles so there goes their Mania match I guess. I liked how they finally realised Road Dogg doing his catchphrases was counter productive to them being heels and getting the babyface team over at least.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the Hunter/Bryan work. I keep reading posts that urge others to calm down about this booking because Bryan will be alright after he gets his "huge payoff" at WrestleMania. And sure, it will probably help him, but at what cost? They have made Bryan look like a geek this entire time, and HHH is untouchable, of course. The entire roster, in fact, has been really emasculated in the authority storyline, especially at the start of the year. Bryan should have booking closer to Austin's, instead he looks like a complete geek, having been called a troll numerous times by JBL, and talked down to by Hunter as a "good little hand". Amidst of all of this, HHH is protected while Bryan looks really weak, when he just stands there and rarely ever does anything other than complain.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Isn't that the nature of Bryan's character, though, to be the ultimate underdog? They might go overboard with the geek/troll/gnome shit, but isn't the point of this that Bryan is a B+ player who isn't on HHH's level? He's not Austin. Austin's gimmick was a hard-nosed anti-authority badass. That's not Bryan's gimmick, so I don't see the need to compare the two.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Isn't that the nature of Bryan's character, though, to be the ultimate underdog? They might go overboard with the geek/troll/gnome shit, but isn't the point of this that Bryan is a B+ player who isn't on HHH's level? He's not Austin. Austin's gimmick was a hard-nosed anti-authority badass. That's not Bryan's gimmick, so I don't see the need to compare the two.


You're right, they aren't the same. My point is that they have went way overboard to the point where Bryan really does look somewhat like a geek, at this point. Being booked as an underdog is fine. But the way they've booked him as someone who has just taken all the "crap" the Authority has given him w/o doing much, at all, and the way commentary and HHH have talked about him, he is starting to resemble a geek. He's not like Austin, but booking him in a manner somewhat closer to that in which he defies authority a bit more would really help in not making him look like a geek, along with commentary not describing him as such, constantly.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

It wouldn't be so bad if JBL was portrayed as a heel commentator. Cole is finally sticking up for Bryan more but JBL calling him goat, a gnome is just so stuipd when he's not saying it for heat.


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> Isn't that the nature of Bryan's character, though, to be the ultimate underdog? They might go overboard with the geek/troll/gnome shit, but isn't the point of this that Bryan is a B+ player who isn't on HHH's level?* He's not Austin. *Austin's gimmick was a hard-nosed anti-authority badass. That's not Bryan's gimmick, so I don't see the need to compare the two.


This.

I don't like the fact that JBL bashes Bryan, while Cole half-heartedly defends him, but since the Elimination Chamber, I think they've done a pretty great job of putting Hunter and Bryan in their perspective roles. Everybody knows Trips is full of shit, and has an axe to grind with Bryan, while Bryan continues to get more and more frustrated with the Authority.

Him stepping into H's face to say "why don't you make me?" was fantastic and shows where this angle should (and I believe, will) be headed. He took out Kane & Orton and then got caught by Batista. I'm confused by why people are angered by this booking. I think it'd be looked on favorably if it wasn't Triple H and Bryan involved.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that's just been how they've portrayed Bryan since Day 1, and since he's the most over guy on the roster, I'm sure they feel they're handling it the right way. I think it's also a matter of Punk originally being slated as the guy who would go up against HHH, but when he took his ball and went home they had to call an audible and insert Bryan into the fray. Commentary sucks in general, but I'm sure Bryan will get his comeuppance at some point. As Mania gets closer and closer, I think it'll start looking like a much more even match in terms of kayfabe.

Plus, didn't he go on a rampage last night until being taken out by Batista?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, that's just been how they've portrayed Bryan since Day 1, and since he's the most over guy on the roster, I'm sure they feel they're handling it the right way. I think it's also a matter of Punk originally being slated as the guy who would go up against HHH, but when he took his ball and went home they had to call an audible and insert Bryan into the fray. Commentary sucks in general, but I'm sure Bryan will get his comeuppance at some point. As Mania gets closer and closer, I think it'll start looking like a much more even match in terms of kayfabe.
> 
> Plus, didn't he go on a rampage last night until being taken out by Batista?


Yeah, there are some instances where Bryan is booked better, like when he starts to actually take out those pitted against him, but it would certainly help to have let him get his hands on Hunter at least once, at this point. Even for an underdog storyline, it's a bit too one-sided. It would have made Bryan look better if he were able to go at it with HHH at some point. Hopefully they do indeed start booking him stronger in the near future..


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh god Jericho actually finishes off the remaining three PPV matches in 2000 against Kane. Hope any of them are enjoyable enough.

Had hoped he'd be in the main event scene after that awesome match at Fully Loaded since he was also really over at that time, but I'll take what I get.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't get the complaining. HHH is supposed to be untouchable, he's supposed to talk down to Bryan and treat him like a piece of shit that he doesn't want to give the time of day to, he's supposed to be an arrogant, condescending prick who acts like he's doing what's best for business when he's really doing what's best for him. That's the whole point of his character. He's supposed to be all these things and make people feel so outraged over the way he talks to and acts towards Bryan so that the pay off is emphasized at the end. The build to Show knocking out HHH last year was done so well that people were actually jumping up and down out of their seats in happiness at the fact that somebody finally stuck it to Hunter. This is going to be Wrestlemania and it's Daniel Bryan. It's going to be a million times bigger and more significant than the KO punch. 

All of this provided Prince Paul does the job of course. 

:trips3

I also don't get the constant Austin/McMahon comparisons either. Daniel Bryan is not Stone Cold and Triple H is not Vince McMahon. Bryan isn't Austin. His whole gimmick is about being extraordinarily ordinary. He's not a hell raiser or anything remotely like Austin. On the same token, HHH isn't Vince. He shouldn't be embarrassed like Mr McMahon was every week because it would be so far removed from what his character has been for over a decade now that it would be stupid as fuck to turn him into a caricature. He's wearing a suit but he's still Triple H. Bryan/HHH is not Austin/McMahon. Trying to draw comparisons between the 2 and expecting the former to be the latter is moot.

Segment on the whole was :mark:. So much heat, so many pops, so much truth. It was awesome :lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I don't get the complaining. HHH is supposed to be untouchable, he's supposed to talk down to Bryan and treat him like a piece of shit that he doesn't want to give the time of day to, he's supposed to be an arrogant, condescending prick who acts like he's doing what's best for business when he's really doing what's best for him. That's the whole point of his character. He's supposed to be all these things and make people feel so outraged over the way he talks to and acts towards Bryan so that the pay off is emphasized at the end. The build to Show knocking out HHH last year was done so well that people were actually jumping up and down out of their seats in happiness at the fact that somebody finally stuck it to Hunter. This is going to be Wrestlemania and it's Daniel Bryan. It's going to be a million times bigger and more significant than the KO punch.
> 
> All of this provided Prince Paul does the job of course.
> 
> ...



Are you kidding? Did you just commend how that Big Show angle was built????!! What In the world is good about taking the one true giant on the roster, emasculating him every week and making him cry, then having him whine and bitch and moan and threaten a lawsuit to get a title shot? What about the Big Show being broke even though he makes in the upper 6 figures every year is supposed to make fans get behind him? Do you really think fans would ever get behind a guy his size who let's people talk down to him, make him cry, and let a female like Stephanie McMahon chop his balls off? That whole angle was one of the worst things I've ever seen, and I was proven right in my opinion when Big Show got his title shot at the end of it and it produced the worst Survivor Series buy rate of all time and a tragedy of a match. I hate buy rate discussions but it has a place here, that angle was a failure of epic proportions.

Just because there was one good crowd pop when Big Show hit Hunter doesn't excuse the horrible booking before and after. That was the most ill conceived story line in recent memory, IMO.

Triple H brow beating and talking down to the entire roster and never ever getting his come up pence is a major problem. Triple H isn't an active performer, he can't be counted on to sell PPV's, no matter how big a fan you are of his, you can't possibly think that this Authority angle has been anything other than a failing of epic proportions. Even if a miracle happens and Bryan goes over at Mania, that doesn't fix anything. Over half the roster has taken a verbal lashing and been degraded by Hunter at this point, all of them should have gotten a chance to get even.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Are you kidding? Did you just commend how that Big Show angle was built????!! What In the world is good about taking the one true giant on the roster, emasculating him every week and making him cry, then having him whine and bitch and moan and threaten a lawsuit to get a title shot? What about the Big Show being broke even though he makes in the upper 6 figures every year is supposed to make fans get behind him? Do you really think fans would ever get behind a guy his size who let's people talk down to him, make him cry, and let a female like Stephanie McMahon chop his balls off? That whole angle was one of the worst things I've ever seen, and I was proven right in my opinion when Big Show got his title shot at the end of it and it produced the worst Survivor Series buy rate of all time and a tragedy of a match. I hate buy rate discussions but it has a place here, that angle was a failure of epic proportions.
> 
> Just because there was one good crowd pop when Big Show hit Hunter doesn't excuse the horrible booking before and after. That was the most ill conceived story line in recent memory, IMO.


You're reading me wrong. I didn't say the Big Show angle was built well. It was a fucking horrible mess. All I meant was the fact that HHH was SO untouchable during that whole process is what made the moment when Show knocked him out so sweet for the fans. If Bryan comes out for the next 4 weeks and embarrasses HHH before their match and then beats him easily then we may as well call him Daniel Cena. That's not how it's supposed to work. The bad guy is supposed to degrade the good guy and always have his number until they have the match and the good guy gets his victory. I think so many years of Cena booking where he humiliated and constantly beat his opponents for weeks and then beat them again at the PPV has made people forget how a feud is supposed to work and how bad guys are supposed to be presented. HHH isn't some midcard or even some run of the mill main event heel. He's the future owner of the company and one of the biggest WWE stars ever not to mention the biggest heel of the last 14 years. This character he's playing is supposed to be untouchable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, people have grown too accustomed to cowarldy heel booking and are desensitized to it so much that they feel it should work that way. Well, it shouldn't. Triple H for the greater part of his career has never been booked as a cowardly heel, so why would he start now? Bryan is playing his "nobody gives me a chance due to my look/size/etc despite being damn good and everyone loving me" card to a tee, and HHH is turning his GIANT NOSE up in the air because he thinks Bryan is below him, and in kayfabe terms, he's absolutely correct.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Judgment day 2000 review 

Match #1: Grand Master Sexay, Scotty 2 Hotty, and Rikishi vs Kurt Angle, Edge, and Christian* 

This should be a really fun match even though I’m not the biggest fan of any of the guys on the former team, bubt luckily I like Angle and Christian a lot, Edge is OK too. Crowd is really pumped for this match for some reason. Was 2 cool over? WHY? They danced Horribly and sucked in the ring! JR keeps calling Rikishi Rakishi, what the fuck is that, his name clearly has an I in it :lol. :mark: for this match though, so much fun and the crowd is pumped beyond belief, literally :lmao. Apparently this show is in KENTUCKEY, don't they generally have a horrible crowd? I guess the marks were right that the AE always had a :mark: crowd. Rikishi is :mark: in this match though, I'm usually not a huge fan of him, but this shit is fucking awesome. So yeah, fucking AWESOME opener, totally unexpected as I thought this would be nothing special, boy was I wrong, basically 10 minutes of FUN from a :mark: match and a :mark: crowd. Man I used that mark code a ton in this match, well this match was fucking hilarious in a good way :lmao, definition of Energetic and FUN. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3

Match #2: Perry Saturn vs Eddie Gurrero vs Dean Malenko *

:mark: for Dean,  for 2000 Eddie and Perry Saturn in general. Not expecting much here but this could be fun for all I know, but I just simply dislike Eddies first WWF run in general. Dean Malenko gets NO reaction . This is sad because he is SUCH a good wrestler, I mean, some of his WCW matches :banderas. `Honestly not epecting much from this match, although Dean Malenko did manage to get an awesome match out of fucking Scotty 2 Hotty at Backlash so IDK what to think. This match is a fun power match so far, the three guys working together at points adds to the novelty of the match, and all three guys are doing well in the match. Incredibly fun gem of a match here, its not MOTYC quality of course, but for a 7 minute European title match, its loads of fun, simply just 7 minutes of :mark: wrestling. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2

Match #3: Shane Mcmahon vs The Big Show *

:mark: at this match being no DQ and FCA, Show in 2000 and Shane is general is just so awesome, so expecting an AWESOME match. Shane tries to do a suicide dive while Big Show makes his entrance but Show catches him easily :lmao. Show beats his ass for like the first 3-4 minutes of the match too :lmao. The Bossman does a run in early in the match, I had ZERO idea he was still in the company at this point :lmao. Big Show gives a huge powerbomb to him anyway :lmao. Now T&A run out and attack Show, then Trish, Shane needs so much help :lmao. Show THROWS TRISH STRATUS :mark: this match and PPV has been non-stop :mark: moments. Show Throws Shane into the show set up equipment, Shane selling is amazing :lmao. Shane has T&A fighitng with him against Show and now its like a 3 on 1 handicap match :lol. In the end they drop a SOUND BOX on SHow and then throw a FUCKING CINDERBLOCK at him :mark:. What a fucking match, that was amazing, just a FUN match, so awesome. ***1/4

*CAL SCALE: 3

Match #4: Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho *

:mark: this match should be awesome because this may be the most underrated chemistry of all time, people always talk about the ladder match, which is amazing, no one is denying that. However all of their PPV matches of 2000 get under looked, the Backlash match is fantastic so I expect that this one will be too. So this is a submisson match, which means the walls of Jericho vs the Crippler Crossface :mark:. we get an armbar hold about 30 seconds into the match, who would tap that early in a match :lol. Match is non stop fun so far, not a surprise really considering who is involved. I woudn't say its at the level of the ladder match and the BL match but either way I'm still enjoying the match. There was a point in this match where it was just resthols and submission holds, that was pretty boring, but then the match starts to get exciting again, although the first few minutes of the match would be a lot more :mark:. Jericho working the knee was pretty good, Benoit selling it was :mark:. :lmao at Jericho using Benoits own knee brace against him. So this match was good but it wasn't anything to write home about, MOTN so far even though this show has been chock full of quality. Submission matches usually aren't that good but this was plenty of fun however I wish they kept the pace they started with because the overuse of submission holds and boring middle portion brought this match down a bit. ***3/4

*CAL SCALE: 4

Match #5: Road Dogg and X-Pac vs The Dudley Boyz 
*
A tag team table match? It MUST be the year 2000! I’m not complaining at all because just watching over the Dudleyz put women through the tables is just :mark:. This is pretty predictable though, Torrie will be put through a table no matter who wins. X-PAC SUCKS chants begin:lol. The great thing about that is that X-pac isn't even in the ring :lmao. So Waltman is supposed to be face? I guess thats why they call it x-pac heat :lmao. Every time Waltman goes on offense he gets booed, this is exactly like Batista :lmao. LOL at Bubba licking his lips when looking at Torrie :lol too funny. So was the Dudleyz gimmick that they're perverts who like to put women through tables? What a strange gimmick. I didn't think much of this match though, not as good as the RR 2000 tables match, although that involved Gunn and not the heat machine. So yeah the first 7 minutes or so of this was pretty boring but it got really good when people started going through tables :mark:. **1/4

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #6: HHH vs The Rock 60 minute Iron man match 
*
Pretty pumped for this because everyone seems to tell me that the match is :mark: worthy and I usually love Iron man matches so this should be pretty fun. Iron man matches can be great but sometimes tedious to sit through, although I have a feeling I’m gonna like this one a good bit :mark:. HBK is referee here, and his attire is so ugly, he's basically wearing short shorts :lmao. Where is the timer for this? I'm gonna need a timer so I know how much longer the match is . Well it takes them until the first fall 11 minutes in to put up the timer, anyway this match is awesome so far. Okay so when I review a match a usually write stuff down while I’m watching. I didn’t do that this time just because I was so enthralled in the story these 2(well 3) were telling in the ring. This is for sure the second best Iron man after Rude vs Steamboat from Beach Blat 92, mad at myself that I waited this long to watch it because it was a :mark: match for the entire length. With that said it may be the best 60 minute Iron man, its between this and the Lesnar/Angle IM match. Final 10 minutes of the match were :mark: too, the first 50 minutes was good too, but the ending stretch was on a whole nother level. And the Undertaker returned too :mark: :mark: :mark: awesome moment to finish the match, just wish the Rock won or this would have been perfect. ****1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 7 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 20

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day(20)
*​
What a PPV :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I fucking loved Too Cool back then :lmao

Someone post a gif of Sexay's thriller dance pls


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> You're reading me wrong. I didn't say the Big Show angle was built well. It was a fucking horrible mess. All I meant was the fact that HHH was SO untouchable during that whole process is what made the moment when Show knocked him out so sweet for the fans. If Bryan comes out for the next 4 weeks and embarrasses HHH before their match and then beats him easily then we may as well call him Daniel Cena. That's not how it's supposed to work. The bad guy is supposed to degrade the good guy and always have his number until they have the match and the good guy gets his victory. I think so many years of Cena booking where he humiliated and constantly beat his opponents for weeks and then beat them again at the PPV has made people forget how a feud is supposed to work and how bad guys are supposed to be presented. HHH isn't some midcard or even some run of the mill main event heel. He's the future owner of the company and one of the biggest WWE stars ever not to mention the biggest heel of the last 14 years. This character he's playing is supposed to be untouchable.





The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, people have grown too accustomed to cowarldy heel booking and are desensitized to it so much that they feel it should work that way. Well, it shouldn't. Triple H for the greater part of his career has never been booked as a cowardly heel, so why would he start now? Bryan is playing his "nobody gives me a chance due to my look/size/etc despite being damn good and everyone loving me" card to a tee, and HHH is turning his GIANT NOSE up in the air because he thinks Bryan is below him, and in kayfabe terms, he's absolutely correct.



To be honest, I think both of you have grown so accustomed to how Triple H has been booked as a heel that YOU have forgotten how a heel, and how wrestling in general, is supposed to work. 

In a wrestling story line, the heel is supposed to continually get the upper hand over the baby face through underhanded, malicious, evil tactics. The angle is supposed to be continually built with the fans getting more and more outraged and more and more behind the baby face and then finally when everything reaches it pinnacle, a massive blow off is supposed to happen with the face going over the heel for good. That's wrestling in a nut shell.

Triple H is the only heel I can think of who has consistently been booked to get the upper hand on the baby face without ever really getting his payback in the end. Outside of a few select feuds, like the ones with Batista, Triple H is booked to be the one standing tall at the end of the angle. That's not how it's supposed to work.

That's what's been happening with this Authority angle. Triple H is getting the upper hand on everyone on the roster, and only Bryan is in line to get his payback. What about all the other guys Triple H has verbally run down since Summerslam? That's right, left looking stupid, as usual.

A wrestling heel should be a guy who is really really good, but incapable of being great without cheating or using underhanded tactics. A baby face is a guy who is great, but is constantly being usurped by evil villains cheating him out of what is rightfully his.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still like this build to Bryan/HHH, but the reason why we all criticize this is because we have so much historical precedence that feuds with Triple H do not have very good payoffs. I can really only cite two or three main event feuds that did (Benoit, Batista, I guess Cena). And faces constantly getting something over the heel really didn't start with Cena. Hogan rarely showed true vulnerability, although that was a much different period. Austin would constantly crush his opposition even if he lost the title. Heck, there were PPVs where he lost the match, but then magically rejuvenated and beat the crap out of everyone. Rock is probably the only top face that didn't have this issue, but even he looked a million times stronger than Bryan. It doesn't hurt to at least have two moments from now until Mania where Bryan looks strong. Austin had those strong moments almost every week in the Road to Wrestlemania XIV.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> To be honest, I think both of you have grown so accustomed to how Triple H has been booked as a heel that YOU have forgotten how a heel, and how wrestling in general, is supposed to work.
> 
> In a wrestling story line, the heel is supposed to continually get the upper hand over the baby face through underhanded, malicious, evil tactics. The angle is supposed to be continually built with the fans getting more and more outraged and more and more behind the baby face and then finally when everything reaches it pinnacle, a massive blow off is supposed to happen with the face going over the heel for good. That's wrestling in a nut shell.
> 
> Triple H is the only heel I can think of who has consistently been booked to get the upper hand on the baby face without ever really getting his payback in the end. Outside of a few select feuds, like the ones with Batista, Triple H is booked to be the one standing tall at the end of the angle. That's not how it's supposed to work.


There are different types of heels. Monster heels (Henry/Show/Lesnar/Kane), badass/sinister heels (Triple H/Austin/Taker) and cowardly heels (Jericho/Edge/Orton). Storylines work differently depending on the type of heel/face dichotomy. 

I think the crowd is rallying behind Bryan more and more, and it's obvious otherwise his fan support would be reducing instead of somehow expanding.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I agree. He also bashed this era, talking shit about the talent on the roster.. yet, now, he's worse than 3/4 of the roster. Seriously. He's been god awful in the ring. Lots of people in the back that are mediocre at best in the ring could get deliver pretty good match with Bryan, but Batista just fucking dragged him down. There's no way he should be in the Main Event, he's in awful shape, right now, and there is nothing he brings to the table ATM.


I too am pretty baffled at Batista in the ring. I remember this sort of stuff being said about Rock but in hindsight it was nowhere near like this.

The stuff about bashing the current locker room though, Ill never understand that. Have to watch what you say, especially these days.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at how terrible King of the Ring 1999 is.

Hardcore Holly vs. X-Pac: *DUD*
Big Show vs. Kane: *DUD*
Billy Gunn vs. Ken Shamrock: *DUD*
Road Dogg vs. Chyna: *DUD*
Hardy Boyz vs. Brood: ****1/4*
Kane vs. Billy Gunn: *DUD*
Road Dogg vs. X-Pac: *DUD*
Undertaker vs. The Rock: *DUD*
X-Pac vs. Billy Gunn: *DUD*
Steve Austin vs. The McMahons: ***

Lord have mercy, what a shitty PPV from a very shitty roster. Consider yourself lucky, Smitty.

Forgot to mention this awesome quote from Undertaker: "I've crippled more people than polio."


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HHH being made to look a bitch by Ziggler or Miz would probably be one of the single most horrific things ever. Those 2 are expendable. It's not their push. Bryan is the guy who gets the honours, not even Show but I'm not touching that one again because it was a complete mess. Do I think it was necessary to have them out there every week? No. Do I think they are insurmountably buried because of it? No. Ziggler buries himself every time he opens his mouth and it was Stephanie's promo that killed Miz even though he's been dying ever since 2011. Why let Ziggler and Miz and the others on the stage get their shots in when it's not their shot to take? All it does is make your big bad boss guy look weak which in turn makes your triumphant hero's victory look weak. 

Anyway, it's a whole other topic that I'm not about to drag in here. I thought the booking post Summerslam to NOC, and even beyond to Battleground with regards to the Rhodes story, was perfect. After that it all went to shit. Now HHH is a clear heel again and the awesome post Summerslam dynamic is back. That's when Bryan vs. Authority was at its best and I have absolutely no problem with HHH or if it was somebody else who happened to be in his spot right now looking strong to the point of being untouchable so long as he meets his end when the time comes. Strong/unstoppable heels = better moments of triumph for the hero. I don't and never have had an issue with that whether its wrestling or books or movies. Strong villains are essential to any story and, no matter how botched it may have become in the middle act, I'd much rather that than a bunch of nobodies get their revenge along the way just because they were made to look vulnerable.

Heel Game is just too much for you to handle. I get it. 8*D

:trips3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker vs Rock DUD? Yeah, I never take any of your DUDs seriously, but this is reaching another level. :lol

On the other hand, it gives me hope that I might enjoy those years more.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I remember Rock/Taker being Solid, certainly better than a DUD :lol. That Mcmahons/Austin match is really shitty though. 

Not sure what 2000 PPV I'm doing next, probably a shitty one so I can get them out of the way, probably one of the UK shows or SVS


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Taker vs. Rock was basically Taker vs. HHH from 2002 with Rock and HHH's roles reversed :lmao. And they literally made this match on the week of the PPV. The Hardy Boyz are killing it out there, and I am still in shock that Michael Hayes was able to do cruiserweight maneuvers.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Taker vs. Rock was basically Taker vs. HHH from 2002 with Rock and HHH's roles reversed :lmao.


Which means it's a FIVE STAR match. 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I stand corrected :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I had Taker/Rock around ***1/2 on last watch, and I really liked the handicap ladder match too, probs the same rating for that as well.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I think I would say Rock/Taker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HHH/Taker KOTR, that match is one of the worst matches of all time


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> HHH being made to look a bitch by Ziggler or Miz would probably be one of the single most horrific things ever. Those 2 are expendable. It's not their push. Bryan is the guy who gets the honours, not even Show but I'm not touching that one again because it was a complete mess. Do I think it was necessary to have them out there every week? No. Do I think they are insurmountably buried because of it? No. Ziggler buries himself every time he opens his mouth and it was Stephanie's promo that killed Miz even though he's been dying ever since 2011. Why let Ziggler and Miz and the others on the stage get their shots in when it's not their shot to take? All it does is make your big bad boss guy look weak which in turn makes your triumphant hero's victory look weak.
> 
> Anyway, it's a whole other topic that I'm not about to drag in here. I thought the booking post Summerslam to NOC, and even beyond to Battleground with regards to the Rhodes story, was perfect. After that it all went to shit. Now HHH is a clear heel again and the awesome post Summerslam dynamic is back. That's when Bryan vs. Authority was at its best and I have absolutely no problem with HHH or if it was somebody else who happened to be in his spot right now looking strong to the point of being untouchable so long as he meets his end when the time comes. Strong/unstoppable heels = better moments of triumph for the hero. I don't and never have had an issue with that whether its wrestling or books or movies. Strong villains are essential to any story and, no matter how botched it may have become in the middle act, I'd much rather that than a bunch of nobodies get their revenge along the way just because they were made to look vulnerable.
> 
> ...


I thought the booking was perfect up until NoC, the whole abeyance thing, and Scott Armstrong angle never being explained, is when things truly ran off the rails.

I agree, Triple H should be presented as a heel, but just as soon as I think they have him positioned that way, he comes out and bad mouths Orton and puts him in a match with Bryan and that makes me wonder wtf is going on here? The answer is nobody knows, because there isn't any coherent booking from week to week, let alone month to month.

My point is, Triple H is over as a heel, no matter how much I enjoy watching him and Steph verbally disembowel the Miz, it really doesn't do anyone much good for that to happen. It doesn't increase his aura, cause Miz and Ziggler aren't on his level, and it certainly doesn't help the guys catching the tongue lashing. Randy Orton is on Trips level and this angle has done serious damage to his character. They had a chance to make him the unquestioned top working heel, instead they made him a patsy.

I dunno, I guess I'm just just under this delusion that the more strong characters there are on the roster, the better it is for everyone.

Okay dead topic sorry just had to explain why I hate the authority angle so much. Everything but the Bryan parts have just been terrible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Ziggler and Miz aren't going anywhere lol. You can't push everybody. You pick the guys you want to focus on and stick with them. Just look at the Shield and Wyatts. These guys have a concerted effort behind them to make them stars therefore they warrant protective booking. Everybody has a place depending on where WWE wants their character to be. Trips sits atop the mountain, whether you like him or not, that's where he sits. Bryan has been sitting on the precipice of that mountain for 6 months now and at Mania it looks like they're ready to push him over. If Ziggler and Miz got their shots in on Hunter 6 months ago he'd have the legs cut from under him. Why would it be a struggle for Bryan to beat down HHH when Ziggler did it already and Miz too? 

Authority bi-polar booking has been wacko though, absolutely. When they're heel they are golden. When they're trolls they are also golden. But when they're working against Orton and being tweener it's just weird. Thankfully that seems to be over with now. 

I don't really rate DUD's tbh. If something is that bad I just don't bother to rate it. Probably why I don't have any official DUD's that I can think of off the top of my head. I don't think Punk/Rock from the Rumble was a DUD and it gets shat on in here all the time. Basically if there's at least 1 redeeming thing I can find in a match its worth talking about. If not then it's just not worth rating at all.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm watching WM 26 right now and I still dont get the hate for that match, ***1/2, only part I dont get is why the fuck HHH went over :aries2

Rey/Punk is on next :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Rey/Punk at Mania was so good given the length. Imagine what it could've been if it had more time. Their 2010 matches were awesome (Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I went to the bathroom during Punk's entrance at WM26, got back to my seat and the match was over. Fun times.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Their 2010 matches were awesome (Y)


What is their best match? I don't think i have seen any TBH, despite loving both lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree w/ Seabs on the Punk/Heyman stuff on Raw, segment wad handled poorly until he got to the taker/lesnar stuff if you really think of it


Edit: otl 10 Zep


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> I agree w/ Seabs on the Punk/Heyman stuff on Raw, segment wad handled poorly until he got to the taker/lesnar stuff if you really think of it
> 
> 
> Edit: otl 10 Zep


Thanks.  Havn't got the PPV but noticed its on the Life Of A Masked man Set. Ill watch it this week when i have time.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> What is their best match? I don't think i have seen any TBH, despite loving both lol.


Over the Limit 2010. That match was great even though there was a match stoppage I believe because of Punk being busted open. I love it when these two face each other, just great chemistry.

Their second best match is their match at Capital Punishment 2011 imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

OTL 2010 is ***3/4 and so is the mania match, but OTL is better thanks to more time. 

I haven't seen the CP match though


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Just to go back to the Hunter/Bryan discussion briefly to clarify a few things. I'm not saying Bryan should be Austin. That wouldn't work I agree. But that segment for me summed up where it keeps going wrong with Bryan. He never wins. He never gets to stand tall over the bad guy. Yeah him being an underdog is great but you have to give even underdogs their moment somewhere along the way. Wrestlers are there to be larger than life. They're the guys that are allowed to stand up to their bosses and smack them upside their head when they get out of line. They're there to be what we can't be. View that promo in a bubble on it's own which is really how I watched it given my lack of reading rather than watching a large chunk of the angle. If someone is standing there saying all that to someone I'm gonna root for in a fight then I want that guy to stand up for himself before the fight and not let this dick talk down to me like that. If he doesn't shut up then shut him up. I'm not comparing Bryan's character to Austin's character, I'm comparing Bryan to a top star who was proven money. Let's even say The Rock. If that was The Rock some Authority heel was belittling then there's know way Hunter talks all that smack and gets away with it. Yeah Bryan might get a kick to the head in here and there but since Summerslam it's nearly always been Hunter standing tall over Bryan. Getting his win at Mania will be great but at what cost? They've conditioned people who aren't already marks for Bryan that he's a troll/geek/etc who always get his ass kicked or gets screwed. It's happened too often. Too often Hunter absolutely buries this guy with no consequences. And if you tell everyone something so frequently for so long then people start to buy it. 

I'm mostly rambling at this point but my basic point is that if you emasculate a guy for so long then it will have a lasting effect. The live smark crowds will always be behind him but that's not a fair representation of the whole of their audience. 

That's not really my biggest gripe. My biggest gripe is how terrible Hunter is positioned. It'd be better if he was just trying to be the most hated guy ever but he isn't. He's desperately trying to be that cool guy that storylines aside everyone loves. Like he wants people to boo him during the show and then shake his hand and be all buddy buddy with him after for delivering such a great show. It's so phony and fake and egotistical. *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I guess where we disagree is that I don't believe Bryan is supposed to be viewed as a larger than life character who can get away with all the other shit other wrestlers are perceived to be able to get away with. He's supposed to be like one of us, which is why everyone loves him.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

SMITTY said:


> I remember Rock/Taker being Solid, certainly better than a DUD :lol. That Mcmahons/Austin match is really shitty though.
> 
> Not sure what 2000 PPV I'm doing next, probably a shitty one so I can get them out of the way, probably one of the UK shows or SVS


Why wouldn't you just watch them in order? Makes it easier to follow what's going as you would get the highlights of all the stuff that led to each match. 

I usually know who wins most PPV main events but I'm usually in the dark in regards to some of the undercard matches. I would just do it in order in hopes of getting a match where you might not actually know who wins beforehand. 

A good match does withstand the test of time but I think not knowing the outcome of the match is the best way to maximize the enjoyment of the match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Seabs said:


> I'm mostly rambling at this point but my basic point is that if you emasculate a guy for so long then it will have a lasting effect. The live smark crowds will always be behind him but that's not a fair representation of the whole of their audience.



See this I think is key and very important IMO and this is why I believe WWE needs to act wisely about this, tread lightly (BB reference as my boy Aaron Paul and Ziggles killed it yesterday). If you keep a guy down for so long (emasculate) they (casuals) will stop caring ,and will have a lasting effort. I hate to bring him up as he has nothing to do w/ Bryan, but as much as it pains me Bryan will end up like Ziggler. Yes the smarks will ALWAYS be there, and yes Bryan popularity and pop out pops anything ziggler ever has gotten or will but was in a similar situation as being over and now look. The burying is resulting in a lasting effect as he doesn't get much of a pop anymore and most casual have left his side.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan has already reached the point where I think that is out of the question. There is such an enormous difference between Bryan's status and Ziggler's status. Ziggler shot himself in the foot, whereas all sources point to Bryan being the perfect role model and employee backstage. Bryan has been at an elevated level for far longer than Dolph was, and their levels of popularity aren't even in the same stratusphere. The only way Bryan would end up like Dolph is if he was buried in seconds every week on TV then never to be seen again aside from random Main Event squashes on Wednesday nights. That isn't likely to happen any time soon. Comparing that to Bryan being in a main event caliber match against Triple H is frankly quite mind-boggling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I know understand all your saying and no question their status and popularity couldn't be more different, and from reports/dirt sheets ( I dont believe them but yea) they are competely different backstage wise as well. I'm speaking strictly Booking, if you dont give the fans what they want, after a while they stop being interested. Now Bryan is at amazing level atm, but it will go down if the comeuppance isn't down well or at all


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> In a wrestling story line, the heel is supposed to continually get the upper hand over the baby face through underhanded, malicious, evil tactics. The angle is supposed to be continually built with the fans getting more and more outraged and more and more behind the baby face and then finally when everything reaches it pinnacle, a massive blow off is supposed to happen with the face going over the heel for good. That's wrestling in a nut shell.


I don't agree with this word for word, but it's a good sum up of why not everyone thinks HHH is that good a heel. One of his major problems is the fact he's a heel who's, like, ''right'' all the time. If HHH and Steph say Bryan is a B+ player then it should be the job of the booking to make Bryan prove them wrong. If Bryan continually loses and shows the world that he is in fact a B+ player, then the heel was right the whole time and nothing came out of it. ''eWrestling fans'' like us may know what kind of wrestler Bryan is, but for a kid who thinks it's real or whatever they might watch Bryan be proved wrong time and time again and say ''you know HHH is right, Bryan isn't that good''. OK, maybe THAT isn't going to happen, but it definitely hurts Bryan in that kind of way, some way, to some extent, somewhere, I'm sure. It's ass-awful booking and/or whatever you call it, regardless. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I still like this build to Bryan/HHH, but the reason why we all criticize this is because we have so much historical precedence that feuds with Triple H do not have very good payoffs. I can really only cite two or three main event feuds that did (*Benoit*, Batista, I guess Cena).


It's easy to be cynical about this before the angle's even over, yeah. Realistically this could all turn out great but a bad track record has put everyone's backs up and there's a lot of paranoia that this is something they screw up. Even without HHH WWE are phenomenal at screwing things up.

I bolded Benoit because Benoit did really get the last say in their feud, but by the year's end HHH was champ and Benoit was doing fuck knows what so it honestly didn't do a whole lot. Benoit wasn't a world title for a while after that (was he?).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:ex:


Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ Ziggler and Miz aren't going anywhere lol. You can't push everybody. You pick the guys you want to focus on and stick with them. Just look at the Shield and Wyatts. These guys have a concerted effort behind them to make them stars therefore they warrant protective booking. Everybody has a place depending on where WWE wants their character to be. Trips sits atop the mountain, whether you like him or not, that's where he sits. Bryan has been sitting on the precipice of that mountain for 6 months now and at Mania it looks like they're ready to push him over. If Ziggler and Miz got their shots in on Hunter 6 months ago he'd have the legs cut from under him. Why would it be a struggle for Bryan to beat down HHH when Ziggler did it already and Miz too?
> 
> Authority bi-polar booking has been wacko though, absolutely. When they're heel they are golden. When they're trolls they are also golden. But when they're working against Orton and being tweener it's just weird. Thankfully that seems to be over with now.
> 
> I don't really rate DUD's tbh. If something is that bad I just don't bother to rate it. Probably why I don't have any official DUD's that I can think of off the top of my head. I don't think Punk/Rock from the Rumble was a DUD and it gets shat on in here all the time. Basically if there's at least 1 redeeming thing I can find in a match its worth talking about. If not then it's just not worth rating at all.


My point was Ziggler and Miz shouldn't have been involved with Hunter in any way unless they were going to get payback. Just keep them out of the picture. Let Hunter antagonize Bryan for months on end, with Bryan getting little hope spots throughout to keep up fan interest, then when everything seems bleakest and the stakes are at their absolute highest, pay off the angle with Bryan getting a decisive victory. That's how wrestling works, that's how proper angles work, and that's why this angle is doing no one real favors.

I'm with Seabs, I think the WWE has done real damage to Daniel Bryan with the way this thing has played out. This angle has benefited Paul Levesque more than anyone, that's a problem when the guy only wrestles 1-2 times per year and the guy he's facing is wrestling on TV twice a week.

Will Daniel Bryan ultimately benefit from all this? If Hunter does the honors, yes, yes he will. But was this angle booked in a way that real damage was done to Bryan, unnecessary damage that could end up costing the WWE? I believe so.

He's still the most over guy on the roster now, but there is a massive "what if" with this whole deal. If they had done things right, with Bryan getting proper hope spots and being allowed to stand tall every once in a while, winning the rumble, then taking the ultimate prize and winning the WWE title in the main event at WM 30, there is no telling if Bryan could rival Cena in a years time popularity and box office wise. We just won't know, because they can't undo the damage they have done.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

But he has gone 6+ months without any comeuppance, and he's more popular than ever. If fans were to give up on him, they would've done it a long time ago. I think they finally realize that if they can't see him win the title, finally getting revenge on Triple H at Mania is essentially the next best thing (and makes the most sense from a storyline point of view).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Also TLK let me clarify myself if I was miss interpreted, I ziggler's burying and Bryan has as much as in common as apples and oranges and would be ludicrous to compare, I'm strictly speaking of the simple belief, if you don't give the fans what they want for a very long time, they will lose some interest. I a think a small reason they are still going strong for Bryan is we all have been under the assumption Bryan will gain his comeuppance at Mania, even in the early days of the orton feud in the fall, "OK its ok Daniel Bryan will be triumphant at mania" went through many fan's minds . All I'm saying is I hope they cash in or , they will lose interest ALIKE ziggler, obviously not as severe


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*He isn't really anymore over than he was before this angle though is he. It's a shame we won't have PPV buyrates anymore but the casual audience interpretation of Bryan after this angle would be super interesting to see.*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

To be quite honest I don't get the sense of paranoia or trepidation that some people on here seem to have regarding Bryan's push. Maybe it's just me being optimistic, maybe even foolish, but I just can't see this ending in a bad way. Bryan has been booked as the center piece of the show for months now and he's working with HHH at Mania. Look at the last three guys HHH has worked with. Taker, Punk and Lesnar. Huge stars. To me it's clearly a matter of when and not if as far as Bryan's huge moment and championship reign is concerned. It's inevitable. No matter how bad HHH's reputation is I'm still confident he's putting over Bryan and it will only be a matter of time before he wins the title.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He might not be any more over, as it's hard to get any more over than he is right now in this day and age of pro wrestling. I guess my point is that his popularity definitely hasn't declined as a result of him being made to look like a geek every week as some are suggesting.

edit Gotcha Greg

edit2 Agreed w/Ownage


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

People think Bryan looks like a geek every week?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's what this entire thing has been about. Not sure why that's the picture people think is being painted. I think it's just people hate HHH and think he's purposely burying Bryan by not taking him seriously.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I can understand the paranoia when it comes to pushing the angle for too long but Bryan is clearly an exception. Their attempted burials of him have backfired time and time again. He is buryproof at this point.

But the paranoia with HHH is understandable. It reminds me of Randy Orton in 2004. He never really got the upper-hand on HHH after pushing the feud for nearly 6 months and by the end of it, he had lost all his momentum and wasn't that over with the crowd anymore. But I admit Bryan is way more over right now so it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

lol how does he look like a geek? The dude barely ever loses. The Wyatt loss is the only clean one I can think of since like SummerSlam pretty much. He gets plenty of ring and promo time and every time he's failed it's been because of The Authority. He beat Orton clean, he beat Kane clean, he called out HHH. How does he look like a geek? What am I missing?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was also 10 years ago and Triple H was a full-time, active member of the wrestling roster. Things are much different now.

edit (Y)


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

All I know is now that Bryan/HHH is 99.9% likely going to happen at Mania, Bryan has to win. After 6 months of being screwed over whether it be a shady referee, someone in the Authority being involved, or some sort of bad luck, Bryan has to win. To me, it's not as big of a payoff like Bryan actually winning the WWE World Heavyweight title at Mania, shoving it to Hunter and company who called him a B+ player and made fun of him for his size and look, but the WWE fucked up on that opportunity so I guess this is the next best thing. Even though I have no doubt this could be a really good match, Trips winning is going damage my interest in the product as he has nothing to gain from beating Bryan.

I'm going to sound like a butthurt Bryan mark, but it's a shame that Daniel Bryan's not going to have his Wrestlemania moment when he raises the WWE World Heavyweight Championship screaming "Yes!" as 70,000+ chants along with him. That would've been real epic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If Bryan loses @ Mania I can understand all of this frustration/paranoia, but I think it's a foregone conclusion that all of this "maltreatment" of Bryan will lead to him beating HHH cleanly @ Mania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> Why wouldn't you just watch them in order? Makes it easier to follow what's going as you would get the highlights of all the stuff that led to each match.
> 
> I usually know who wins most PPV main events but I'm usually in the dark in regards to some of the undercard matches. I would just do it in order in hopes of getting a match where you might not actually know who wins beforehand.
> 
> A good match does withstand the test of time but I think not knowing the outcome of the match is the best way to maximize the enjoyment of the match.


I like the save the best for last mentality, I've done both methods and found I prefer this way


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> All I know is now that Bryan/HHH is 99.9% likely going to happen at Mania, Bryan has to win. After 6 months of being screwed over whether it be a shady referee, someone in the Authority being involved, or some sort of bad luck, Bryan has to win. To me, it's not as big of a payoff like Bryan actually winning the WWE World Heavyweight title at Mania, shoving it to Hunter and company who called him a B+ player and made fun of him for his size and look, but the WWE fucked up on that opportunity so I guess this is the next best thing. Even though I have no doubt this could be a really good match, Trips winning is going damage my interest in the product as he has nothing to gain from beating Bryan.
> 
> I'm going to sound like a butthurt Bryan mark, but it's a shame that Daniel Bryan's not going to have his Wrestlemania moment when he raises the WWE World Heavyweight Championship screaming "Yes!" as 70,000+ chants along with him. That would've been real epic.


So when Bryan wins the belt at the next PPV or whenever it won't be a big moment and a satisfying payoff? Beating HHH is huge. Maybe on the same level as winning the title. Maybe even bigger. Triple H is the reason he's not the WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Sticking it to him at the biggest event of the year by pinning him clean or making him tap will be massive.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

His booking in terms of going over guys like Orton and not being pinned clean at EC are both things I would say are done right. I think the fact that HHH is constantly being booked above Bryan, and Bryan has never really gotten any sort of retribution directly when it comes to HHH is a problem. It would help his character, since this Authority angle has been really one sided and Bryan has looked like he do anything to HHH. Beating Kane really means nothing at this point. Bryan has really needed to get some sort of retribution at this point, it always seems like it's HHH standing tall over Bryan, when it's those two involved. 

In terms of who's going over, I think Bryan will go over. HHH going over would be ridiculous, and I severely doubt that'll happen. There are rumors that Bryan might work double duty, though, against HHH, and in the title match. That might give Bryan a great 'Mania moment if he beats HHH first, at the start of the show, and goes on to win the title to close the show. It would also save that disaster of a Title Match. It's only fantasy booking for me, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple H winning @ Mania would be ludicrous, and this is coming from a huge HHH fan. I don't think there's any chance. Otherwise I'd agree that this is the worst built underdog storyline of all time.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*All these weeks of him being laid out, screwed out of the title and not shutting Hunter up when he's burying him on the mic make him look like a geek. Not a massive one but not a top WWE superstar either. Compare it to how even Punk was booked in the same time period. He'll beat Hunter and get his title run this year so in that sense the payoff will come but the road to it has been lousy imo and besides the crowd reaction staying (not growing) strong nothing has been done to make Bryan look like someone who is an A+ player like Cena, Rock and Austin would be presented as. It's probably nitpicking because Bryan will get to where he's gonna get but no further and he'll always be super over but it's annoying when an angle takes up so much time and it's not producing anything productive. *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well, like I mentioned earlier, wasn't this match supposed to go to Punk before he walked out? I agree that nothing really came of Bryan's battle with the Authority once he got screwed by HBK @ Hell in a Cell, but now that he's taking Punk's spot against Hunter it's starting to take form again.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Yeah just imagine how awful it would have been if Bryan was stuck with Sheamus at Mania and never got any revenge on Hunter. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

That HBK turn was so stupid too. I know why they did it but kayfabe wise it was maybe the stupidest part of the whole angle with Bryan once again getting no payback.*


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> So when Bryan wins the belt at the next PPV or whenever it won't be a big moment and a satisfying payoff? Beating HHH is huge. Maybe on the same level as winning the title. Maybe even bigger. Triple H is the reason he's not the WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Sticking it to him at the biggest event of the year by pinning him clean or making him tap will be massive.


I'm just saying I would've prefer Bryan to win the World title at Mania. No doubt that beating Triple H would be huge and it would be a nice payoff, but this 6 month odyssey has been about the title. He's been screwed after Summerslam, he's had the title stripped away from him after NOC, Shawn Michaels superkicked his dreams away, and he's had Corporate Kane screw him over. He's come so close only to be pushed so far. To me, this story is about Daniel Bryan fighting through obstacles that would finally culminate in him winning the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. All the months of being told that not being good enough, not being a top-tier superstar, and not having the look to be the "Face of the WWE" should end with Bryan giving a big "Fuck You" to Hunter, Steph, and anyone who has ever doubted him by winning the title from their golden boy at probably the biggest Wrestlemania ever. Like I said, going against Triple H is the next best thing, but I still would've wanted Bryan to win the title.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *Yeah just imagine how awful it would have been if Bryan was stuck with Sheamus at Mania and never got any revenge on Hunter. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
> 
> That HBK turn was so stupid too. I know why they did it but kayfabe wise it was maybe the stupidest part of the whole angle with Bryan once again getting no payback.*


Yeah, that really would've been awful.

And didn't Bryan knee the fuck out of HBK like twice after getting dicked @ HIAC?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Beating HHH isn't as big as winning the title, but it is important that Bryan beats him at some point to exact revenge on everything he's put him through, which would be at Mania, if they go that route. Right now I'm pretty torn on who I think will win... Bryan desperately needs a PPV win, but this is HHH's first match as a heel since turning. I can't see either of them losing, and while it makes all the sense in the world for Bryan to win, I'm leaning more towards predicting that HHH is getting the win unless Bryan is pulling double-duty, fighting HHH first, winning, and then losing the title match in the main event. If it was against anyone else, I'd say HHH is definitely winning, but I do think he likes Bryan and will do what's "best for business" when it comes to Bryan.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

> ...the source didn't expect Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan to be changed. Regarding that match, nobody within WWE expects Bryan to go over.


PWInsider.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, that really would've been awful.
> 
> And didn't Bryan knee the fuck out of HBK like twice after getting dicked @ HIAC?


*Yeah but nobody remembers that do they? It wasn't really proper payback for Shawn costing him the title. I mean if you do that finish it should only be to set up the ref and the guy who gets screwed facing each other. 

Bryan's definitely going over. It's as close to a lack as Taker winning as you'll get imo. Hunter says some abysmal things that kills the entire roster on the mic but more often than not he puts the guy over on the big stage. He just makes sure he beats them at every other opportunity to make up for it.*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> PWInsider.


Same dirt sheets who guaranteed Punk would return last night? Same ones who earlier today said WWE are considering giving Bryan two matches at Mania, early in the show against HHH and in the title match later against Batista and Orton?

These reports mean nothing to me. At this point I think Bryan wrestling twice is more likely than him losing to Trips though.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Of course I'm not believing this. Just needed a reason to post that gorgeous Hunter smiley, which you should add please, Seabs.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Sono Shion said:


> Of course I'm not believing this. Just needed a reason to post that gorgeous Hunter smiley, which you should add please, Seabs.


:side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *Yeah but nobody remembers that do they? It wasn't really proper payback for Shawn costing him the title. I mean if you do that finish it should only be to set up the ref and the guy who gets screwed facing each other.
> 
> Bryan's definitely going over. It's as close to a lack as Taker winning as you'll get imo. Hunter says some abysmal things that kills the entire roster on the mic but more often than not he puts the guy over on the big stage. He just makes sure he beats them at every other opportunity to make up for it.*


Well, they might've been trying to tease a potential HBK/Bryan match and when HBK decided against it he kinda just disappeared. :lmao Who knows, really.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Be happy, I'm trying to get your work added Dany.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*As long as Bryan isn't just stuck with facing Batista and Orton at Mania I'm fine. The 3 way at best will be good but the Trips match can be great potentially. That's what I want most from Bryan at Mania, a great match. If he wins the title then cool. I don't think him beating Hunter at Mania and winning the title from Orton the night after on Raw is the worst idea in the world either. Yeah it's not Mania but I bet the reaction is much better on Raw than at Mania and will come across on TV much stronger. Winning the title in some stupid 3 way pairing doesn't feel all that special or rewarding though to me.*


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Whatever happened to HBK vs Bryan rumors for WM 30? They honestly just died out of nowhere with no real reasoning.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Whatever happened to HBK vs Bryan rumors for WM 30? They honestly just died out of nowhere with no real reasoning.


The reason is HBK retired years ago.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Michaels is kinda retired and would like to keep the "streak vs. career" match semi relevent, so yea


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah, I really don't want Bryan added to that 3-way. I want them to leave it as it is to see how badly the crowd reacts and to see just how bad a Batista/Orton match in 2014 really is.

Bryan/Trips is what I'm dying to see and I think most people have since the summer. I'm actually really looking forward to it to see what Bryan can get out of Hunter. Definitely has potential.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

A few months ago I would've wanted Bryan/HHH but with whats happened recently and looking back on the last 6 month...this doesn't make sense.

HHH should've been used as the roadblock infront of Bryan winning the title at WM, Bryan should've won the RR and fought HHH with the shot on the line at EC.
HHH has been put above the WWE WHT, like Cena was in 2012.
The ultimate goal should've been becoming the face of WWE, now the ultimate goal is beating HHH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

bme said:


> A few months ago I would've wanted Bryan/HHH but with whats happened recently and looking back on the last 6 month...this doesn't make sense.
> 
> HHH should've been used as the roadblock infront of Bryan winning the title at WM, Bryan should've won the RR and fought HHH with the shot on the line at EC.
> HHH has been put above the WWE WHT, like Cena was in 2012.
> The ultimate goal should've been becoming the face of WWE, now the ultimate goal is beating HHH.


How is beating HHH the ultimate goal? Yeah it's happening at Mania but the ultimate goal was and still is the title.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know this all wouldn't have happened if The Ultimate Warrior buried Triple H in shorter time and greater ruthlessness, thus ridding of :jpl once and for all.

So apparently Bryan and Kane had their best match together on Main Event.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> So apparently Bryan and Kane had their best match together on Main Event.


The match they had on Raw last week was good. If it's better than that I'm gonna have to check it out. Haven't watched anything from Main Event all year.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> How is beating HHH the ultimate goal? Yeah it's happening at Mania but the ultimate goal was and still is the title.


Cause Bryan/HHH is happening at WM, plus the segments involving Bryan & HHH. The HIAC contract signing made it apparent.
Bryan's beaten Sheamus, Orton & Cena, but isn't good enough to face HHH let alone beat him.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Main event has become a fucking joke, but the show tonight had the tag title rematch plus Kane/Bryan so I'll probably check it out 

Gonna write something up regarding WM 30 for my blog that I've sort of left alone after one post :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

bme said:


> Cause Bryan/HHH is happening at WM, plus the segments involving Bryan & HHH. The HIAC contract signing made it apparent.
> Bryan's beaten Sheamus, Orton & Cena, but isn't good enough to face HHH let alone beat him.


Overcoming The Authority has always been the main payoff to the angle but Bryan will ultimately do that by winning 'their' WWE WHC and becoming the face of 'their' company. He has to go through HHH to get there.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Shield/Wyatt's 2 ***1/2

Don't see how some people could be worried about Rollins and Ambrose's future. Everyone can't be built up at once but don't see them falling by the wayside.

Also Rowan has greatly improved



Saint Dick said:


> Overcoming The Authority has always been the main payoff to the angle but Bryan will ultimately do that by winning 'their' WWE WHC and becoming the face of 'their' company. He has to go through HHH to get there.


Great, that should've happened before WM where Bryan should've finally won the title and had a lengthy title reign after.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's weird that the Authority went from Bryan/HHH/Orton to Orton/Big Show and now to Batista/Orton. I still think it's been a good storyline though. When was the last time that a storyline involved so many wrestlers? It did keep the tag team titles relevant for a while too with the Cody/Goldust storyline so that's always a plus.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Shield/Wyatts II. Didn't think it was great. Paled in comparison to the first one. The fact that I knew about Rollins bailing before I watched it probably hurt it a bit. There was still a lot to like about it and it was certainly good but I'd take the Real Americans v Christian/Sheamus tag over it. Not going to list it unless it goes up for me on a re-watch.

EDIT:

This sums up how I felt about it nicely:


#BadNewsSanta said:


> Shield/Wyatts from tonight I'd probably go no higher than ***1/4 on. Certainly wouldn't rate it anywhere near as high as a lot seem to be. Good match, but something really felt off... whole match felt really weird to me. Things just weren't clicking all that well imo, but it wasn't bad. Rollins at the start was awesome, and then at the end when he left his teammates... and then how Reigns and Ambrose started getting somewhat on the same page. Ambrose did a decent job being a crazy fucker but the performance paled in comparison to at the chamber, and Reigns... well he kinda did his normal thing, which is fine and all, but he wasn't even tagged in.
> 
> So yeah, not bad, but not great. I was a bit disappointed, but the EC match is still a classic to me, so it's all good. I got what I wanted out of The Shield/Wyatts UNLESS they wanted to do a tornado No DQ style tag. Otherwise, I can't see the magic from EC ever coming back.


It wasn't actively bad in any way but like #BNS said, it felt off. It didn't help that big spots like Rollins landing on his feet from the super German attempt and Harper's dive were done less than two weeks ago and in better fashion. Made those moments feel slightly lacking for me. Rollins going HAM at the beginning was the best part. They tried to make up for it being a much shorter match by making it faster paced and more chaotic but it didn't quite click. Good but not great is how I'd sum it up.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Late to the topic, but I've enjoyed reading the last few pages, with *some good discussions going on regarding Bryan/HHH*. Would probably make a good TDL topic. Maybe that's why Seabs and TLK are so heavily involved, scouting for new debaters :side:

I'm personally sitting on the fence in regards to this topic. I believe that they could have allowed Bryan a tad more retribution, while some of the jibes that have come his way have been a tad unnecessary at times. Calling _him_ things like a B+ player whilst giving him certain back handed compliments as "a good little hand/good little technician" are fine IMO because it shows that he's being given at least _some_ respect, with the long term (hopefully) goal of him going over HHH to 'prove him wrong', showing Hunter that he CAN be the face of the company. HHH obviously having been the symbolic "last hurdle" for many years in the WWE in terms of kayfabe superstardom (obviously Bryan already is a star in a sense). I didn't even mind Hunter saying that Bryan "wasn't worth his time" because as part of the story Bryan beating Hunter and proving him wrong would be part of that payoff.

However, some of the commentators guff regarding Bryan has been ridiculous. I don't want to compare Austin/Bryan directly, because they're not really that comparable, but when Vince and King called Austin a "*******" and mocked him for his drinking habits _at least_ the AE crowds could relate to that. Those kind of insults were seen as "a mark of respect" by that demographic. Now, while many of the WWE's current neck bearded basement dwelling trolls should be able to relate to the insults that have been aimed DB's way (especially Cal and some of the others who seem to rate matches in here 24/7 :side they're hardly comments that can be classed as badges of honour to most of WWE's current demo, even in a warped sense. 

I'm not say that this has been detrimental to the point that it has BURIED Bryan, but it certainly hasn't helped him. I also strongly agree with Seabs that Bryan should have had far more physical contact with HHH (not suggesting that Bryan should wear a Stephanie mask before you ask :argh in non match scenarios. After all, Bryan's real strength is his "fighting" ability, so why not show that off in scenarios where most people with anger management issues (hint hint...okay fair play, WWE can't remember angles from a week ago!) would go off on one? It doesn't really make sense. Again, I don't believe that it has "ruined" the angle, but they could have certainly made improvements.

The one miniscule thing that worries me in regards to the outcome of a potential HHH/Bryan match is the idea that HHH _wasn't_ originally supposed to face Bryan. If he was in fact only deemed worthy enough to face Sheamus (I mean in a kayfabe sense, so don't start lecturing me about Sheamus as a worker!) then there is the slight possibility that HHH could win the match, even if it meant that it lead to a rematch/series where Bryan comes out on top. If that was the case, would people be happy with that? I personally wouldn't and I highly doubt that it will happen, but you never know...

Personally I was always hopeful that this would be a match at this years WrestleMania, even as far back as last September. So I'm absolutely fine with it occurring, although that's more from a storyline and _significance_ perspective, rather than anything to do with in ring work (although it could be decent). The only difference is that I was hoping that HHH would drop the WWEWHC to Bryan on the same night. I know that anti-nose WF posters would have probably hated the idea of even a short HHH title reign (the route to HHH winning it would have probably been convoluted as well, classic WWE), but I believe that it would have been the right thing to do with Bryan regaining the title while also humbling HHH and symbolically becoming the face of the WWE in one fell swoop. Would have made for one hell of a Mania ending anyway! However, if Bryan beats HHH and goes on to Seattle (wait, is ER in Seattle? Fuck knows anymore...) to win the title then all is not lost, while I suppose you can then at least say that WWE didn't shoot their load up the wall too early.

That's my two penneth. Now let the STARZ~! fall again :101


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

So, anyone else with me? WM 27 > 29?

27:

Edge vs Del Rio WHC: ***1/2
Rhodes vs Mysterio IC: ***1/2
Core vs Kane/Show/Kofi/Santino: DUD 
Orton vs Punk: ****
King/Lawer: DUD 
HHH vs Taker: ****1/2
Mix vs Cena: *1/2

29 :

Shield Vs Orton/Sheamus/Show: **3/4
Ryback vs Henry: DUD 
Jericho vs Fandango: **
Hell no vs Ziggler/Langston: ***
Swagger vs Del Rio: **1/2
Punk vs Taker: ****1/4
HHH vs Lesnar: **
Cena vs Rock: *1/2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 27

Edge/ADR: **1/2 
Rhodes/Mysterio: ***3/4 
corre tag: DUD 
Punk/Orton: **1/2 
King/Lawler: DUD 
HHH vs Taker: **3/4 
Snookie tag: DUD 
Miz/Cena: DUD 

WM 29

Shield tag: ***1/2 
Henry/Ryback: **1/2 
Hell no/Langston and ziggler: ***
Jericho/Fandango: **1/4
Swagger/Del rio: ***
Punk/Taker: ****1/2 
HHH/Brock: ***1/2 
Rock/Cena: * 

So no WM 29 is much better


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Wrestlemania 27 (Haven't watched it in a while):

Edge vs Del Rio : ***1/2
Rhodes vs Mysterio: ***3/4
The Corre vs Kane/Show/Kofi/Santino: DUD
Orton vs Punk: ***3/4
Cole vs Lawler: DUD
HHH vs Taker: ****1/4
Miz vs Cena: *3/4

Wrestlemania 29:

Shield Vs Orton/Sheamus/Show: ***
Ryback vs Henry: **1/2
Jericho vs Fandango: ***
Team Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston: ***
Swagger vs Del Rio: ***
Punk vs Taker: ****1/2
HHH vs Lesnar: ***3/4
Cena vs Rock: ***1/2

29 > 27 for me. 27 had the Cole/Lawler match therefore, 29 wins.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It's close. I might give the edge to 27, slightly. Punk/Orton is better than anything on the 29 card with the exception of Punk/Taker and I don't remember Rhodes/Mysterio very well but I know it was good. I guess the determining factor is if you like HHH/Taker or not. I do like it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy shit, StraightEdgeJesus. That rating for Rock/Cena II :kobe10

Wrestlemania 29 might be my choice because it has the best match out of the two, but I honestly didn't think either show was horrible. Bad, I guess. But better than most of the early Wrestlemanias. Like Wrestlemania IV where only one match was decent.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Holy shit, StraightEdgeJesus. That rating for Rock/Cena II :kobe10
> 
> Wrestlemania 29 might be my choice because it has the best match out of the two, but I honestly didn't think either show was horrible. Bad, I guess. But better than most of the early Wrestlemanias. Like Wrestlemania IV where only one match was decent.


I liked Rock/Cena II a lot better than their first encounter and it was more fun to watch. It had a callback spot near the end where Cena went for The People's Elbow and didn't play into Rock's trap like he did at the previous encounter, which was something I appreciated. I know my rating is not the most popular opinion but what can you do.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM27 vs. WM29 

WM 27

Edge/ADR: ***
Rhodes/Mysterio: ***1/4
corre tag: DUD
Punk/Orton: ***1/2
King/Lawler: DUD
HHH vs Taker: ***1/2
Snookie tag: DUD
Miz/Cena: 1/2*

WM 29

Shield tag: ***1/2
Henry/Ryback: *
Hell no/Langston and ziggler: ***
Jericho/Fandango: **
Swagger/Del rio: **1/2
Punk/Taker: ****1/2
HHH/Brock: *
Rock/Cena: **

WM29 wins it due to Taker/Punk. Without that, WM27 would win.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Seems as if it comes down to whether you like HHH vs Taker, personally think that match sucks shit so no surprise I picked WM 29

Downloading ECW heatwave 98 ATM, will watch tomorrow :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

After re-watching Wyatts/Shield from this past RAW, my viewpoint totally has changed. I was underwhelmed at first, but there were so many subtleties that I didn't notice the first time. The storytelling in this was phenomenal, and dare I say that aspect was even better than in their first encounter together.

Like one of the commentators said, "Ambrose seems out of control tonight." Everything from the spot where he made Seth fall off the top rope, to coming around to talking junk to Wyatt, to spitting on Harper before he fell to his knees, to his defiance when getting his head smushed in by Rowan...he totally stuck to the script the entire time. I felt that air of complete wildness was turned up a notch, hence me initially feeling like it was botch-filled and weird. Watching it again, it was completely intentional (and not botched).

At the same time, the hurt on Dean's face when Seth left him alone and wouldn't tag in, was just great. This was one of those multi-faceted tour de force performances, and it's crazy, because it kind of just flew under the radar, even from me initially.

Same applies to Seth, as I thought he portrayed the angst and confliction really well at the end there. As Dean was crawling toward him, Seth looked quite sad, knowing what he was about to do.

Loved the little touches of Dean being so taken aback and hurt by Seth's abandonment, that he didn't even care about the physical punishment that Bray was inflicting on him. He was looking on at Seth the whole time, with a pained and shocked expression.

Also, Roman's reign of terror on the outside, was quite fitting & played perfectly into the storyline. Here _he_ was now not paying attention....too busy going off the game plan and focusing on inflicting pain on the outside, so Dean was once again caught in the middle of the ring with no help. This time for the pin. It's like, once again they proved Seth's point right.

There's so much that I'm forgetting, because I'm typing this way after re-watching, but honestly, this was one of the better, most, coherent stories told throughout a match that I've seen in awhile. On top of that, it had great character work amongst Dean and Seth particularly.

Also, Roman's genuine smile when Seth was launching himself like a rocket, was really nice to see. Seemed like he was having an inner mark out moment, lol.

I honestly enjoyed that more than the EC match on second watch, and that's surprising to me. 

P.S. The Wyatts took out Roman, like, three times, which was a nice way to make them taking out Roman right before the Seth abandonment not seem oh so convenient. I love when the WWE pays attention to detailing like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Easily prefer WM29 and I'm not even a big fan of that. Only advantage WM27 has is Orton winning his match. It sucks that he's gonna lose at WM _again_ this year. 

WM27:

Edge/ADR - ★★★
Cody/Rey - ★★★¼
Orton/Punk - ★★★½
Taker/HHH - ★★★
Cena/The Mike - ★
0 rating for the other shit

WM29:

Shield vs Orton/Showmus - ★★★¼
Mizark/Ryback - ★½
Hell No/Zig E - ★★½
Jericho/Fandango - ★★
Swagger/ADR - ★★
Taker/Punk - ★★★★
Brock/HHH - ★★★¼
Rock/Cena - ★★½


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not only did Orton win, but he beat your sworn opposition.

Rock/HHH (7/5/99): ***3/4
Rock/X-Pac/Road Dogg vs. Chyna/Gunn/HHH (7/12/99): ***

Oh god, now Al Snow and Droz are going to have an evening gown match.


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

*This was originally posted in the 2014 MOTYC Thread over in the Other Wrestling section. I hope that it's okay that I keep doing this. I just feel like it makes the most sense to try to expose as many people to my thoughts as possible.*



Too Far Gone said:


> *Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - WWE NXT ArRival (February 27, 2014) - ★★★★ (YES!/NOMINATED)​
> I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm feeling a little bit of writer's block at the moment, so I'm not overly inspired to rave on and on about this match. I also feel like so many others came before me in this thread and addressed all of the points that I would like to address. To put it simply, this was very good.
> 
> I may be coming from way out of left field with this, but I feel like Antonio Cesaro works a pretty unique style in the wrestling ring. His style comes across to me as if it's heavily based on his own strength. Somebody please tell me if you completely disagree with this assessment. In any event, this style of his has taken a while to catch on with me. I have no problem admitting that I initially found Cesaro to be very boring, in every single aspect. I kept seeing many of you in last year's version of this thread carrying on about how awesome he was, and I just wasn't seeing it. I have now come to realize that the aforementioned unique style of his, combined with his seemingly dry personality, is what led to me not being vested in him as a performer. It wasn't until about the last 3-4 months or so that his style has started to grow on me. Now, I've been converted into a full-fledged fan after seeing this bout with Sami. I'll have to seek out their previous bouts, now that I've seen this one, as I recall most of you highly recommending those.
> ...


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Came in to say I was watching No Mercy 2008 on the Network, and that I really like Henry/Hardy. Mysterio/Kane is fine. I forget what happened next in their feud. Candice/Beth was whatever. Looking forward to the rest of the show though. 

Pretty sure we compared WM 27 and 29 already, but they're pretty close to equal in my opinion. Punk/Orton, Cody/Rey, Trips/Taker vs Shield/3 guys, Punk/Taker, Brock/Trips (kind of even with Punk/Orton for me, I think). Cole/Lawler getting like 30 minutes of time fpalm

Edit: That's your writer's block? :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn didn't have a story or build-up to it? I for one am shocked.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> When I rate wrestling matches, I try to approach it with a "totality of the circumstances" point of view. Had this match had a better story, better build up and been for a title on a major show (PPV, for example, or hell, even a high spot on a RAW card), then I would have no problem throwing four and one-half stars at this one. Of course, none of those things are the case, unfortunately. There really wasn't much of a story leading up to this match, other than the in-ring history between the two.


Sorry, I was more distracted by the wall of text the first time, but yeah, they had three matches before this one, each better and more dramatic than the previous. If you watch the interview that they taped a couple weeks before this, you'll get it. Cesaro was showing Zayn zero respect in that interview by being on his phone and interrupting all the questions that were directed at Zayn, answering them himself. Then at the end of the match, the commentators were talking about how Zayn got what he came for: Cesaro's respect. Then of course Cesaro showed him respect with the hug. I saw that interview on the Network, so I don't know if it's out or not. But yeah, the story was there.

Also, a match doesn't need a title for it to get the credit it deserves, and this one is no different.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lolWM 27. Rhodes vs Mysterio was MOTN & I like Edge/Del Rio + Punk/Orton, but the rest are DUDs. WM 29 wins in a massive landslide.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lol @ CODY disliking Taker/HHH. :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Typical Triple H crap. :hb


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Perhaps the wrong place to post this, but after contemplation, I think the best option for Hunter/Bryan, while I know it would be a good traditional match and an often frowned upon match type is Last Man Standing.

You look at the premise of the feud beyond the vast symbolism of Bryan and the authority which is another discussion for another day, and from a literal/kayfabe sense, the story is that whenever Bryan gets within an arm's reach of the ultimate title, Triple H or a circumstance strung by the ultimate puppetmaster HHH causes Bryan to fall back down the rung of the ladder. HHH has thrown Kane, implyingly the Shield, gauntlet matches, HBK, anything he could do to supress the current people's champion from reaching the pinnacle despite Bryan outwrestling the champion every time. HHH has thrown every verbal insult and physical challenge at Bryan, but Bryan ultimately is still standing and the pulse still beats as long as the people cheer. Bryan still standing after survivng waves of attacks while unfortunately the evil boss HHH stands above everyone (in his mind even the audience whose reactions drive the product). HHH also believes that due to his physique superiority and name value, that Bryan stands on a the rung below HHH (hence the B plus player refrence. A Last Man Standing match is an obvious christening of the theme of this feud from a kayfabe sense. You take into storyline cannon as well that last night's last image was Kane/Stephanie/Hunter standing over Bryan, and you have what would be a nice foreshadowing. For once, we would be getting an unforced, built match that warrants the stipulation of the last man standing wins

From a match quality sense, yes this would be a difficult sell given that the majority of Last Man Standing matches while a good concept is a bit of a psychological and storytelling artform to get right that requires premium timing to have a good effort. That said, HHH has been involved in what I would consider at just about a four star contest vs Jericho at Judgement Day and one of HHH's best matches in the Michaels series was their very good last man standing war vs Michaels and not to mention HHH's great contest vs old Ric Flair in a LMS match. Point is, while the match itself doesn't, HHH has damn good track record of LMS matches given 3 out of the 4 were stellar efforts. Many of HHH's best individual efforts came as HHH playing a sadistic heel, and given the level of annoyance HHH has for Bryan and what the symbolism is, HHH could reprise this role once more. While Bryan is restricted in moveset due to profit over product philosophy, he has still shown to be a premium worker in the wwe style and brings an extremely high amount of energy and visible passion combining with timing to keep fans invested and allow a great face for HHH to play off of much like when he had Michaels early on in their feud before the feud stretched to try to become the greatest ever and failed. In a LMS match, timing and investment is everything, and given the two in the ring, this is no question, hence there should be no trepedation of match quality. When Bryan goes over, it can signify a literal conquering as he stands over HHH for the ten count.

Another factor is the entertainment factor. There needs to be some high octane, entertaining match to supplement the pending classic that is Brock/Taker in the main event tier, especially when considering that Orton/Batista will likely be an excruciatingly slow paced match and Wyatt/Cena while creating a great investment and I think will be a great match will still probably be a slow paced match that I don't know how many in the audience will precieve. The potential run ins and weaponry involved in Bryan/Hunter would add a new element to the card and take those on a big, fun, casual appealing roller coaster. This would be a good entertainment value run off to Wrestlemania. Also consider that if Taker/Lesnar isn't changed to no holds barred or is tightly reffed, we would have zero matches aside from a possible mid tier MITBB match with a stipulation. a LMS match fixes this issue.

Thoughts?


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cesaro/Zayn didn't have a story or build-up to it? I for one am shocked.





Odafin Tutuola said:


> Sorry, I was more distracted by the wall of text the first time, but yeah, they had three matches before this one, each better and more dramatic than the previous. If you watch the interview that they taped a couple weeks before this, you'll get it. Cesaro was showing Zayn zero respect in that interview by being on his phone and interrupting all the questions that were directed at Zayn, answering them himself. Then at the end of the match, the commentators were talking about how Zayn got what he came for: Cesaro's respect. Then of course Cesaro showed him respect with the hug. I saw that interview on the Network, so I don't know if it's out or not. But yeah, the story was there.
> 
> Also, a match doesn't need a title for it to get the credit it deserves, and this one is no different.


*I'm probably to blame for not understanding the story behind this match. It's my fault for this being basically my first time watching NXT. Furthermore, I literally only watched the match yesterday from bell-to-bell because I was pressed for time. That being the case, I didn't see any of the build up and I didn't hear the commentators make mention of Zayn going for Cesaro's respect. I hope that provides some insight since it seems like my thoughts are coming across as ignorant to those of you who regularly follow NXT. I should be more careful when rating matches in the future, especially when I haven't seen much of the storyline prior to the bell ringing.*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So you haven't even seen the 2/3 falls match from last year? Gotta see that one, and shoot, watch the other ones as well.


----------



## The Black Mirror (Dec 22, 2013)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> So you haven't even seen the 2/3 falls match from last year? Gotta see that one, and shoot, watch the other ones as well.


*No. I haven't seen that match. After seeing this one from last week, I've definitely added the 2/3 falls match to my list of "must sees."*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The commentators mentioned the respect story quite a bit.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WM 27 doesn't even come close to WM 29.

WM 29 is DUD free where WM 27 is DUD city.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zayn vs Cesaro is nothing but a strong implied story, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did anyone say 27 > 29 around here? If so, God why the need for that? WM 29 just wasn't that bad for Christ sakes fpalm


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Do you still feel that way now?
> 
> Lol.


Don't really think a rushed Raw main event will be their best match. Wait until they fight at Extreme Rules or maybe even Payback and then we'll see.


----------



## Wagg (Jan 10, 2012)

new teaser:






can't wait for this. going to be amazing!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy shit, I completely forgot about the Heyman doc.

:mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starrcade 1985


_Mid-Atlantic Championship Match:_
*Sam Houston vs. Krusher Khrushchev(c)* 
I think I liked this more than anything from the Wrestling Classic. It was a game of cat and mouse where the mouse kept getting the upper hand. You also just knew that if Krusher got in a good shot against Houston that the tides would turn instantly. They meshed really well together and captured the David vs. Goliath dynamic perfectly. Also great, post match promo from Krusher where it couldn't be anymore obvious that he wasn't Russian.
***1/2 *


_Mexican Death Match:_
*The Ragin' Bull Manny Fernandez vs. Abdullah The Butcher*
It turns out Mexican Death Match=Sombrero on a Pole. While the stipulation was pretty stupid this was actually very solid. Abby is just a monster to be in the ring with. He had Manny bleeding within seconds of the match started and I want to say the first punch he threw he used his spike. All of this made the eventual comeback from Manny that much better. The match also had a really good finishing stretch. Manny giving Abby a suplex was a very impressive sight and started off a sequence that just felt they were throwing everything at each other. I'm tempted to say that this is the best "X on a Pole Match" but I feel like I might be forgetting one that was actually good. Anyway this was a fun bloody brawl. They did a good job trying to make this look real.
***1/2* 


_Texas Bullrope Match_:
*Ron Bass vs. Black Bart w/JJ Dillion*
I can't say I was a big fan of this. They punched each other a lot and they bled a lot. I was a big fan of how hard the hits with the cowbell were but other than that I found the match to be pretty underwhelming. An average brawl that was more than watchable because they kept it short so it didn't drag. 
**** 


_Texas Bullrope Match:_
*JJ Dillion w/Black Bart vs. Ron Bass*
The match before had the stipulation that if Bass won he would get to wrestle Dillion. I'm pretty sure we've all seen this "match" before where the heel manager starts with a cheap shot, gets his ass soon after, and then his wrestlers interferes and he wins. Seeing JJ Dillion take a beating is always fun though so I can't complain about this at all. 
***


*Superstar Billy Graham vs. The Barbarian w/Paul Jones*
Significantly better than the embarrassing match Graham had the previous year. It was also really short but they at least wrestled like it was going to be a 4 minute match. Barbian started things off quickly and at times it looked like he was going to take the match before Graham got any offense in. Obviously this is a young Barbarian (or at least I hope it is) so the pacing here was a lot better than I was expecting. Fun match and I really wasn't expecting to say that.
**3/4*


_National Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Terry Taylor vs. Buddy Landel(c) w/JJ Dillion*
Landel was basically doing a gimmick where he was doing a Ric Flair impersonation and he actually did it pretty well. He didn't go over the top with it either so it was a lot easier to take him seriously during the match. The best part about this match as that there were brutal looking strikes. Either they both know how to throw some great strikes or they just decided to stiff each other. It made for an entertaining match either way. Unfortunately we're still in that category of matches where I have to say something along the lines of "It was fun and pretty good but nothing special." 
***1/2* 


*The Minnesota Wrecking Crew vs. Wahoo McDaniels and Billy Jack Haynes* 
Haynes looked like a total monster in this match. He started things off and kicked a ton of ass. Aside from the fact that it as fun to watch the Anderson's get beat up the initial ass kicking was really smart. The Anderson's worked a control segment on Wahoo and they knew, and I knew, that if they let Wahoo make the tag that Haynes was going to beat the shit out of them. He looked so much stronger than Wahoo and he made a good hot tag. The match unfortunately really suffered once the hot tag was made because Haynes was in for like a minute before he tagged out. Why would he do that? Wahoo was in the ring for a long time while you were on the apron. Yet you're tagging him back into the ring after you were kicking so much ass after maybe a minute. It was stupid and didn't really make any sense. It's a shame because they did everything really well leading up the hot tag.
***1/4*


_"I Quit" Steel Cage Match for the United States Championship_
*Tully Blanchard(c) w/Baby Doll vs. Magnum TA*
After seeing over 20 matches and not being able to rate one over 3 stars this was so refreshing to watch. The match is just so compelling to watch. Blanchard is the heel but really there isn't a heel for most of this match. It's just two guys that hate each other in a desperate battle. They were a little apprehensive at first which I loved because it really made me think that they knew what they were getting themselves into. I don't know if "real" is the right word to describe the match but I'm struggling to come up with a more appropriate word to describe the match. You could just feel the hatred and the desperation in both guys. It honestly felt like they just put two guys into a cage and told them to fight to the death.

This just reinforces me theory on older wrestling. When it's bad it's the worst but when they get something right they create things that you just don't get to see today. I've seen a lot of matches where the guys are supposed to hate each other and they try to kill each other but it just feels desperate here. It's a gritty, brutal, and amazing fight. 
*****1/2*


*Jimmy Valiant and Miss Atlanta Lively w/Big Mamma vs. The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette* 
There's no way in hell I'm going to watch this.
*NO*


_Steel Cage Match for the NWA Tag Team Championship_
*Ivan and Nikita Koloff(c) vs. The Rock 'n Roll Express*
This was really impressive. Things start off with some really good double team work between Gibson and Morton. It was as if they shared a brain while they were in control of the match. Eventually there was the isolation segment on Gibson which was also really entertaining as they used the cage on a lot and you could see how angry Morton was on the apron.What made this different is that we didn't get the traditional hot tag. The Russians were in control of the match until the very end and it looked like they would have won if there wasn't a ref bump. But as Gibson, the ref, and Ivan were all getting up the Rock n' Express was able to make a blind tag that the ref who was still on the mat saw. Then the quick roll up ended the match. The match was smartly worked by two teams that they really seemed to be on the same page as each other. I liked the build up to the tag but I also really liked that they made this match their own. The ending was unique and unexpected.
****1/2 *


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Dusty Rhodes*
Nobody is better as the champion than Flair. Within 30 seconds you're thinking that he is fucked and has no chance at winning the match. He just gets his ass handed to him by Dusty time and time again to start the match. He just has these little tricks up his sleeve that are so effective in making you doubt that he really is screwed. Whether he locks in a sleeper out of nowhere or rakes the eyes to break up a submission he just does these little things that are enough to keep him in the match. In this match you got worried when Flair just kicked Rhodes' leg once and Dusty acted like he was in serious pain. It was a call back to the fact that Anderson's injured his leg not that long ago and it really made you worry that Flair might have found his way out. 

Now I was expecting a Flair control segment where he worked the leg for a while but we didn't that here at all. In fact Dusty seemed to get pissed and he responded by attacking Flair's leg right away. Flair would occasionally get some offense in and got a few shots in on the leg but for the most part it was all Dusty. I really liked this match a lot but I would have liked it even more of there was some consistent selling from both of them. I would say the leg selling as pretty good but they really could have told the story better. I loved the moments when both guys were hobbling around and I wished there had been more of them.

The finishing stretch was also really good. I thought I knew who won the match (and I was right) but at one point I was seriously questioning my knowledge. It looked like it was going to be a classic "Dusty Finish" but it ended up being a false Dusty Finish. The match was great. highly entertaining with a good a story. There were some things that they could have done better but they really were little things in the grand scheme of things.
***** *​

Great show. I'll have a write up of sorts comparing the WWF and NWA in 1985 pretty soon.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Heyman doc :mark:. It will be interesting to see if they go back and edit things because there's certain to be a ton of stuff on there about Punk lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Heyman doc :mark:. It will be interesting to see if they go back and edit things because there's certain to be a ton of stuff on there about Punk lol.



Was just thinking that. Totally psyched for it, but it'll be SO much better if they keep the stuff with Punk in.

On that note, Starbuck your signature got me thinking: why hasn't WWE given John Cena the full 3 disc documentary/match set treatment? No one can honestly say that he doesn't deserve it, or that it wouldn't be a massive hit. I know they released "Word Life" and the other one about his charity work, but I want a real deal, "Thy Kingdom Come" style documentary with atleast 15-20 bonus matches. Cena has had some AMAZING matches over his career, any way you cut it he has to be in the discussion for 30 best workers of all time. And I'd love to hear other wrestlers talk about him. They should have made it by now.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

He'll definitely get one. I think they're holding back because they initially gave him the full 3 disc treatment back in 2007 when it was way too early for him to have one. I mean his career was only 5 years old at that point. The amount of things he's been involve in since then and how much more of a star has become is astronomical. I'm definitely excited about his next set because if we can get Cena and others to be candid and open up about certain issues, it will be fantastic. Also generally because I'm a mark and I look forward to another set detailing 2007 until present. So yeah, I definitely think he'll get another one, it's just a matter of when.


----------



## S-Mac (Oct 28, 2006)

That Heyman doc looks amazing


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heyman doc now? Unbelievable.

You know, some Dangerous Alliance matches can be put on there. Just saying. :hayley1


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cena set would be amazing 

Vs Angle No mercy 2003 
vs show WM 20 
vs JBL I quit 
vs HHH WM 
Vs Edge TLC 
vs HBK WM 23 
vs Orton NWO 
vs Batista SS 
vs HBK vs HHH SVS 2009 
vs Batista LMS 
vs Punk MITB 
vs Rock WM 28 
vs Brock ER 2012 
vs Bryan SS 2013

:mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I justed watched shield/wyatt II and I really liked it this time around. I'll admit, I wasnt paying that much attention to the match, and thought the spottiness turned me off. But this time I enjoyed the Chaotics, and all of the place notion Rollins and Ambrose were amazing in this. I may be the other one, but Reigns is my LEAST favorite of the group, 


We have had alot of shit this year, but we have also great stuff, Orton/bryan was my MOTY for a while and I think its changed now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That projected Cena set looks awful w/o any TV matches. 8*D

but really, nothing but PPVs would mean I have no reason to purchase. Pretty sure some of those have made other sets anyways _(including a Cena one, not too sure though)_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was just shooting off the top my head, TV Cena matches would be 

Vs Taker SD 2003 
vs Punk RAW 2013 
vs Cesaro 
vs HBK RAW 2007


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cesaro & Taker matches would be epic. The other two, pass. Already on sets. Cena vs Punk from Canada was excellent and not on a set. That's the easy move there. vs Michaels to be replaced by one of their 2009 matches. Don't believe the really good one from that year was put on anything.

The best John-boy set possible is what I'm hoping for. <3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone see Bryan/Kane Main event ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I find it hilarious that Cena has THREE DVD's out and not one on his actual career. Instead we got that fucking bullshit "experience" documentary and one about his fucking rapping :lmao.

I *think* the really good HBK/Cena Raw match from 09 was released on the Best of Raw 2009 set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's probably the one. Almost thought it might have been but it was fuzzy. May as well do the second match as it was still good. Or do one of those Cena/Michaels vs Rated RKO matches. idc. That got put on Rumble '07 DVD, but they can make a pass there.

I'd prefer to skip that area altogether and give me some Cena vs Shield action.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think the second HBK/Cena vs Rated RKO match was superior to the one on the Royal Rumble 07 DVD.

A Cena set with some TV gems would be neat. He's had so many quality matches. Match with Cesaro would be a must inclusion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what I'm saying. Dip into the pool of the gems to give the set some depth. They have a pretty good habit of doing so & it isn't Cena's first set so all the "important" matches don't have to be added right off the bat. There's some hope. All of this being wild guesses and random hoopla for even IF another set made.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think the second HBK/Cena vs Rated RKO match was superior to the one on the Royal Rumble 07 DVD.
> 
> A Cena set with some TV gems would be neat. He's had so many quality matches. Match with Cesaro would be a must inclusion.



Is it a crime that one of my all time favorite Cena TV matches is his Latino Heat Parking Lot Brawl with Eddie? I know I pimp that match all the time, but really it could always use another mention. That match OWNS. It's the perfect blend of comedy and brutal fighting. I dare someone to watch it and not burst out laughing when Eddie burns Cena with a cigarette lighter, or wince in pain as they put each other's head through car windows. Eddie said in his book that everyone always thinks WWE gimmicks the glass when that stuff happens, but that it's rarely anything other than the real deal. Like when Big Show power bombed him onto a car hood it was 100% legit and he said he hurt for months.

But then again Eddie lied about inventing the sunset flip power bomb over a ladder, so maybe he was full of it :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena & Undertaker are two documentary sets that NEED to be made in the near future. It would only be better if they decided to dig through the TV stuff instead of the same generic picks that have been in numerous sets before.


*Cactus*: I've honestly never seen you mention the Eddie/Cena match so that's a first. I haven't seen it in a long time but it was pretty fun match and if I'm not mistaken, it's on Eddie's second DVD that came out in 08/09. They have another solid match after SummerSlam that year in Eddie's hometown.

I have no doubts that the glass is real. Eddie was opened up all over the place when Big Show destroyed him and the scars were there for another week at least. I wonder what they used when Eddie showered Show in shit, though. That segment never ceases to crack me up. :lol

On the subject of glass, I watched Angle vs Shane from KOTR yesterday and that part of the match is just brutal. Angle decides to position himself near the glass to protect Shane from falling on the head when the glass doesn't break.

Lastly, did you check out the video I repped you yesterday?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Depends on the moment involving the glass. Perhaps in the Show/Eddie moment, it was fixed for easy breaking, but the glass could have been legit still. It's only hard to believe b/c WWE playing it safe on that front sounds like the more proper choice. They need their workers to be as healthy as possible all year round. It's a risk when you throw some element such as glass in play. Ask WCW about that w/Goldberg in 1999.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Silly Goldberg. HUR DUR ME NO NEED BAT, ME USE FIST. GOLDBERG SMASH!!! GOLDBERG HURT!!!!

Parklot brawl from SD 03 is :mark:. Shame that fucktardcuntface returned during it. Almost ruined the damn thing .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal what 2003 PPV are you doing next? 

I'm working on 2000 ppv #2 atm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gonna go with JD I does believe, that way I can watch the first Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT match and continue their series from SD in between the rest of the garbage I have to endure on the other 03 PPV's .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The ladder match is quality though iirc

Not up to the awesomeness of the SD matches but I still gave the ladder ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is there anywhere I can find the Goldberg/Bret segment with Goldberg bloodying his own hands? :lmao

I've only read it described in Bret's book and it seems humorous to watch. Vintage :russo


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> I have no doubts that the glass is real. Eddie was opened up all over the place when Big Show destroyed him and the scars were there for another week at least. I wonder what they used when Eddie showered Show in shit, though. That segment never ceases to crack me up. :lol


Eddie said in his book that it was dog food mixed with water


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reminded of how I need that Goldberg set released last year too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Eddie said in his book that it was dog food mixed with water


You stole my thunder I just repped him to tell him that. I know being showered in real shit would be worse, but damn, being drenched in wet dog food doesn't sound that much more appealing. Shame they couldn't have used chocolate pudding or something :lol

2003 has some AWESOME stuff on Smackdown for the year, probably, no definitely the best year for Smackdown. I think that's why Raw was so good in 2004, they didn't like that the B show was shitting all over the A show week in and week out match quality wise. That's gonna happen when you have Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, Rey, and Angle holding it down on Smackdown and Triple H "carrying" Raw. Not even a competition really. No wonder they took Benoit back to Raw, he pretty much single handedly made 2004 the best year for Raw.

Hayley- I own the Goldberg set, definitely worth the price, I highly reccomend it if you get as giddy as I do just watching that man make his entrance. Brings me back to middle school when I used to draw the Goldberg tribal tat on my arm in permanent marker and call myself "PlatinumBerg" in wrestling matches with my friends :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I forget the match listing but I remember being satisfied w/it. Doc in itself is interesting alone, so, I should love it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody or anyone, could you give me a few Jack Swagger or Tully Blanchard (Yes I know weird pairing ) matches to watch ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch Swagger/Christian BL 2009


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I shockingly HAVE seen that match, just in the mood for Swagger matches rn, and Ive always wanted to indulge abit more in Blanchard stuff


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Jack Swagger vs. Christian (Christian's first match back)
Jack Swagger vs. Sami Zayn - WWE NXT 9/4/2013


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I actually have seen those two, yea I'll probably re watch that zayn match, I remember LOVING it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Have you seen all of Swaggers good matches :kobe


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

SKINS said:


> Cody or anyone, could you give me a few Jack Swagger or Tully Blanchard (Yes I know weird pairing ) matches to watch ?


For Blanchard;

vs Ronnie Garvin May 3rd 1986
vs Ricky Morton sometime in September 1987
vs Dusty Rhodes mid June 1987

Off the top of my heat. Assumed you've seen the Magnum match. He had a decent match with Robert Gibson in build-up to the Morton match. Think it was August 87.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I woudn't bank on Skins seeing the famous I quit match 

This 2000 PPV I'm trying to watch has a pretty horrible card tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Swagger:

vs Finlay - 1/6/09 & 2/3/09 (the second being the > match)
vs Matt Hardy - 1/13/09
vs Christian - 2/24/09 (his best match), Backlash 2009, & 1/31/14
vs Yoshi Tatsu - 12/21/09
vs John Cena (pick and choose among them, but I think the two matches from 2009 were probably the best of the bunch)
w/William Regal & Zack Ryder vs Christian, Mark Henry & Yoshi Tatsu - 3/18/09
vs The Undertaker - 4/19/10 (truthfully, not close to his best match, but it's cool for what it is)
vs Rey Mysterio - MITB 2010, & all the rest on TV. Fantastic chemistry.
vs John Morrison - 4/9/10, 4/23/10, & 4/26/10
vs Edge - HIAC 2010
vs Kaval - 10/29/10, 11/4/10, & 12/10/10
vs Chris Masters - 8/19/10 & 8/3/10
vs Evan Bourne - Capitol Punishment (they have had a lot of short sprints on tv too. Some have been fun & others were Swagger squashes. I sort of remember the dates on those, but play it by ear if more entice you)
w/Dolph Ziggler vs Evan Bourne & Kofi Kingston - HIAC 2011 & Vengeance 2011 AND vs R-Truth & Kofi Kingston - Over the Limit 2012
vs CM Punk - 1/9/12
vs Alberto Del Rio - 4/19/13 & 4/26/13
vs Sheamus - 5/25/12 & 7/24/13
vs Goldust - 12/20/13
vs Tyson Kidd - 1/3/14
vs Daniel Bryan - 11/15/10, 5/24/13, 7/22/13, & 2/21/14
w/Antonio Cesaro vs Prime Time Players - 8/19/13, 8/28/13, & 10/23/13
vs Titus O'Neil - 8/26/13
vs Sami Zayn - 9/4/13 (wager to say this is the next best match behind the Christian 2/24/09 match, tbhayley)
w/Antonio Cesaro vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - 1/27/14
w/Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus & Christian - 2/10/14
w/Antonio Cesaro vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - 1/24/14
w/Antonio Cesaro vs John Cena, Goldust, & Cody Rhodes - 11/1/13 & 11/4/13
w/Antonio Cesaro vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes - 10/28/13 & 11/22/13

I snubbed out some other good tag team matches from 2009 & 2010, but this is a large portion of the goods from his career. Could have added a few more, but eh. Watch the 12 man tag from RAW on 10/3/11 too b/c while it isn't a Swagger show, it's fecking excellent.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol I havent


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Then watch that amazing match you fecking bloke :lol


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just watched Bryan/Kane at Main Event. Really good match, probably their best encounter. Bryan working on Kane's knee and Kane shutting down Bryan whenever he gets on a little flurry from sidewalk slams to a simple punch was good. The big man/little man dynamic worked really well in this match and Bryan pulled a great babyface performance as always. Good match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Swagger vs Del Rio I Quit never happened.

Huh, Kane vs Danielson yesterday could be spun as their best match? Guess I have to see it now. Thought their SummerSlam 2012 match was real good, then the recent RAW match following EC being the better of the two. If they hit the next level possible then man. That'll be fabulous.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

****3/4 for Tully/Magnum I quit, amazing fucking match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just watched it just like Smitty, this was my first time seeing. Yea I really enjoyed it. It is funny to me because I always thought the match was going to be different that it was. Always thought it was going to be a "flashy, 30 + min blood bath w/ chairs etc". I couldnt be more wrong


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

My highlight video of Elimination Chamber. For the most part I had a lot of fun with this because the Shield/Wyatt and Elimination Chamber match were both really good so I had to spend a lot of time getting that to fit perfectly into the video, which turned out very nicely. Since the best matches occurred in the middle and end of the PPV, I had to try to find a song that would fit in perfectly and I felt Courtesy Call did just that. 

Wanted to make the highlights jam packed and high paced, which are the kinds of highlights I prefer anyways. I left out the divas match because there wasn't any build up to the match itself. Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SKINS, go watch Blanchard/Garvin. Reminds me of a Dolph Ziggler match, which is always a good thing.

That Swagger listing looks like a doozy.

I'm confident that Smitty is watching Survivor Series 2000.

Getting ready to watch Summerslam 1999. I remember loving this show as a kid. Anyone else have those same feelings in their youth? Surprised to see how much Backlash 1999 held up.

EDIT: :lmao just saw Chyna beat HHH in a match. So he's willing to lose to her, but not to Jericho or Punk.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Summerslam 1999 is pretty terrible. But there is a great X-Pac performance at least.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm confident that Smitty is watching Survivor Series 2000.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: :lmao just saw Chyna beat HHH in a match. So he's willing to lose to her, but not to Jericho or Punk.


:ambrose2

Still, I heard that one is pretty bad, I probably overreacted a bit to this one but 4 matches in we are at -0.5 :lol


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

I just now noticed the description my friend gave of the video...could have at least been a little less harsh :/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 1999 actually is one of the only PPVs that year that _isn't_ terrible. Very "attitude era" obviously, but at least the fun side of it. Tag Team Championship match is a hidden gem.

FF, glad you saw the light. Khali is an innocent bystander for his usual crumminess. He can't be held accountable compared to some other fellas out there...:hayley1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SMITTY said:


> :ambrose2
> 
> Still, I heard that one is pretty bad, I probably overreacted a bit to this one but 4 matches in we are at -0.5 :lol


Armageddon? I had it at -1 after 4 matches :lmao. Don't think ANY match got any points aside from the main event :lmao.

Checked, ONE match got 1 point... but then another -1 nullified it :lmao.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Armageddon? I had it at -1 after 4 matches :lmao. Don't think ANY match got any points aside from the main event :lmao.
> 
> Checked, ONE match got 1 point... but then another -1 nullified it :lmao.


I looked at your review earlier and you gave it a 7.5, so IDK why I have it so low 

its Insurrextion btw


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Insurrextion has a ton of fun matches on it, and with a big card (I'm sure it had quite a few matches on it), matches getting even just 0.5 soon added up along with 2 *** ish matches i think.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah like I said I have already given two matches ** and **1/4, but then the other two I didn't watch so that makes it -.5 so far, but the tag title match should be fun, as should Benoit/Angle and the ME


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Six man HIAC is so rad. Uh-oh. Time to watch it atm. The bug has bitten.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Some reviews would be nice...I worked hard on that


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It says its private so I cant view it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Six man HIAC is so rad. Uh-oh. Time to watch it atm. The bug has bitten.


:mark: cody love the 6 man HIAC too :mark:. All the "cool" kids seem to hate it these days. FUCK THEM I SAY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

6 man HIAC is a blast. Don't know how anyone could hate it. It may not be HBK/Taker for a cell match but it's fucking awesome!

Watched JBL/Cena "I Quit" match again for the first time in over a year. Isn't quite the classic I remember it being but it's a very enjoyable match and still holds up for the most part. Loved the callback to the Eddie match even if I felt it came a bit early. lol @ all the choking here. WWE editors would have a field day trying to cut half the match off with their stance on choking.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Who hates the Six man HIAC? That match is terrific. I watched all the HIAC matches some time last year and was just thrilled with it. Six guys, so there's constant action, but it's not a silly brawl.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never had a point where I didn't love the six man HIAC. Can't think of a way it could have been worked any better. Six guys inside a giant cage who all hate each other. Insanity is all it called for. Vince being thrown in the mix b/c he didn't want all the talent to be hurt is a shenanigan I actually approve of. Fun stuff the entire way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I don't know who in the world wouldn't like the 6 man HiaC match, even if the whole Rikishi spot at the end was overly contrived, it was still cool as hell to see. That match reminds me of an Attitude Era version of that fabulous IYH Final Four match.

Man. I think I need to watch it again too, I haven't seen it since Cal posted his review for it months ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been wanting to watch the Final Four match a lot lately. This may be the final push I needed in reminding myself. Although I want to do the Cesaro vs Danielson 2/12 & Zayn vs Cesaro rewatches first. Priorities.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> SummerSlam 1999 actually is one of the only PPVs that year that _isn't_ terrible. Very "attitude era" obviously, but at least the fun side of it. Tag Team Championship match is a hidden gem.
> 
> FF, glad you saw the light. Khali is an innocent bystander for his usual crumminess. He can't be held accountable compared to some other fellas out there...:hayley1


Well for 1999 standards it isn't a bad a show I guess. On most other standards it's not very good at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I downloaded the 2 NXT shows with the first 2 Cesaro/Zayn matches in HD so I have all their singles matches in HD now. Might ramble/actually review their series soon .

WATCH FINAL FOUR, CODY. THEN 6 MAN HIAC.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

My apologies guys, apparently the video I posted was listed as "private". It is now public!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> 6 man HIAC is a blast. Don't know how anyone could hate it.





Odafin Tutuola said:


> Who hates the Six man HIAC?





Cactus Jack said:


> Yea I don't know who in the world wouldn't like the 6 man HiaC match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I downloaded the 2 NXT shows with the first 2 Cesaro/Zayn matches in HD so I have all their singles matches in HD now. Might ramble/actually review their series soon .
> 
> WATCH FINAL FOUR, CODY. THEN 6 MAN HIAC.


There is still time. Although a bit miffed I sat through Vengeance 2005 atm which includes another lmao worthy Angle vs Michaels match. Knowing I wasted my time w/that over one of those two matches is a bit upsetting. Seriously, that damn match was worse than their already shit heavy WM encounter. How do you be worst than shit? Idk, but they accomplished it.

Kane vs Edge tho. :hb



Yeah1993 said:


>


Oh look, information I knew about.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So I just finished watching Vengeance 2005 & holy shit Angle/HBK is atrocious, it's even worse then their WM match & I think that match is pretty bad also.

Kane/Edge, Cena/Christian/Jericho & Triple H/Batista all hold up just like I remember them (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the finish where Angle goes to the top rope purely to be superkicked.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I like the finish where Angle goes to the top rope purely to be superkicked.


That part is just icing on the cake :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always been the best part.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching some of the swagger stuff Cody rec'ed that swagger/punk 1/12 is a real gem and the rey/swagger NO DQ


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> So I just finished watching Vengeance 2005 & holy shit Angle/HBK is atrocious, it's even worse then their WM match & I think that match is pretty bad also.
> 
> Kane/Edge, Cena/Christian/Jericho & Triple H/Batista all hold up just like I remember them (Y)


Thank you. When I went to Victoria's wrestling-themed restaurant for some quality Gail Kim-chee burgers, they were showing this PPV on the televisions. Holy shit, Angle/HBK dragged like crazy. So annoying. And then the Viscera/Godfather segment was very cringeworthy. Now let's fix everything by teaching you to dislike that awful triple threat match. I tried my best to like it for nine years, but it's still boring trash to me. Hopefully the main event will hold up once I return to my 2005 project.

Rey/Swagger No DQ is pure fun. That ending :lenny. And then Punk/Swagger. Seriously underrated. Swagger looked like a beast out there. Between that match and the Sheamus Smackdown match, I don't know which one was a better showing for him in 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Watching some of the swagger stuff Cody rec'ed that swagger/punk 1/12 is a real gem and the rey/swagger NO DQ


Botched finish or not, Punker vs Swagger was good. If you liked Mysterio vs Swagger from Smackdown, then you should easily adore their MITB 2010 match. It's brilliant.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Thank you. When I went to Victoria's wrestling-themed restaurant for some quality Gail Kim-chee burgers, they were showing this PPV on the televisions. Holy shit, Angle/HBK dragged like crazy. So annoying. And then the Viscera/Godfather segment was very cringeworthy. Now let's fix everything by teaching you to dislike that awful triple threat match. I tried my best to like it for nine years, but it's still boring trash to me. Hopefully the main event will hold up once I return to my 2005 project.


I tried to see what you dislike about the triple threat, don't see it. Still a good match for me.

HIAC remains as a good memorable match. It's a fight & they claim to hate each other in the build up, so the work in the match seen is all fitting. Only aspect I had that was slightly negative was the length going the reaches it did by proxy of a few spots. At the end - when Trips gets hit in the throat by the sledgehammer and the blood shoots from his mouth - that should have been the moment the match ended. There really wasn't any need for the little scuffle on the outside following if in kayfabe that Trips' throat was previously slightly crushed by impact. Shave off a tad bit of pointless stuff or nix out the blood gag spot altogether and it would have been better. Not like it killed anything, but of course, having zero complaints always > having one. It's still actively better than it probably had any right in being. Plenty of better brawls out there in the vast world of wrestling, each man would have better matches in their careers w/WWE, but yeah, good stuff all the same.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO. I had no clue that Magic: The Gathering of all things sponsored a WWE PPV. I guess Vince did care about smark opinions at one point. Of course, this was the same period where Triple H was a smark favorite. Test/Shane from Summerslam 1999 still holds up. Love a feel good match like that. Reminds me of Raven/Saturn. Tag Team Turmoil from the same PPV was the sleeper hit. And Kane/X-Pac rule as a tag team. Those two work so well together. Kane as the hot tag and X-Pac as the FIP that can carry anyone.

What other match besides the Taker one at Mania is at the level of Batista/HHH with regards to Batista's best matches? I didn't think any of the Cena matches were on that level or any Jericho matches. And that's about it. Six years in the main event with a one great match per year average.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc Taker vs Batista from Cyber Sunday killed it. I like their LMS quite a bit too. Cena vs Batista from Extreme Rules 2010 could be better than the HIAC. That's all I got. We all know he sucks, but there were about five good ones.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I really enjoyed Eddie's last ppv match with Batista but mostly because of Eddie. 

Batista has had some good matches with people.. however this return has been dreadful.. Out of shape, looks like he doesn't care at all.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Kane/Edge over HBK/Angle? Okay...


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

NO! said:


> Kane/Edge over HBK/Angle? Okay...


Have you seen HBK/Angle :|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Uh-oh, someone's world has been shattered.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did the opener hold up? And what was good about Kane/Edge that I should watch out for? I honestly only remember one thing about that match, and that was the "We Want Matt" chant. It does sound pretty intriguing. I'm still shocked by how much I liked Kane/Umaga thanks to the recommendation from you guys.

Lord have mercy. The Bossman/Snow feud has just escalated. Poor Pepper and poor Al Snow. Dude had the worst luck a character could have. Chyna also did something that has never occurred in wrestling history. She is playing both a face and a heel at the same time. Not even a tweener. But both a face and a heel. Has that ever happened?

EDIT: Undertaker had what was both a great and a horrible promo at the same time on the 8/30/99 episode of RAW. This "evil" Undertaker that talks on the mic like ABA Taker is really interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course not. It's Carlito. And to add to the humor, it was Shelton keeping that lame concussion angle in tact all on his own merit as it is. He brought it to light after not being able to capitalize following a high impact move unlike how he normally would. Meanwhile Carlito looked as if he wasn't sure of what he should be doing during the portion where he was actually on the offensive. So the entire story of the match_ (and literally the last six minutes of a tweleve minute match)_ is Shelton doing every move in his arsenal, but not being able to pin Carlito. Then Carlito *still* has to cheat to beat a handicapped man who was beating him from pillar to post b/c even in kayfabe he's shit apparently. :lmao

Kane vs Edge was just everything it should have been. Kane was gunning for revenge and revenge was to beat Edge a crap ton opposed to picking up the W right off the bat. Meanwhile Edge was scared, looked for any advantage he had to hit a move. Once he did, he immediately tried to score a flash win and get the heck out of there. Ending is hectic fun & a riotous crowd who wanted to see Kane chokeslam Edge to hell got their wish. Really good stuff. The two used the approach needed for their personas on that night. Lita & Snitsky provided the goods from their areas too. In fact, most of their matches during 2005 were all real swell. Believe the Stretcher match takes a bit of a dip compared to the Gold Rush Finals, Vengeance, & the Steel Cage _(which I really, really like)_ but you know, fun stuff on the whole. Much better than the garbage they would have come late 2010 - early 2011.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NO! said:


> Kane/Edge over HBK/Angle? Okay...


Dude, if you're coming into this thread more times, that is the least of things you'll hear :cool2

@funnyfaces, yes, both a face and a heel character has been played - Vince McMahon 2008. MILLION DOLLAR MANIAH 8*D

:vince3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot to acknowledge that portion. 1999 was a wacky time. Lets have Chyna aid Triple H as a heel but fight against misogynistic men as a babyface. And it eventually worked. Go figure.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Rewatched Sami vs Cesaro.. yup still ***** ( ****3/4 for the action and that + 1/4* is for the hug at the end) 

I also saw NOC 2008

Miz/Morrison vs Finlay & that Dwarf... don't judge me but I enjoyed it

Chavo vs Matt was kinda below average, didn't enjoy it that much

Cody's heel turn... kinda of saw it coming at the time.

Jericho/Kofi..as the crowd said..boring

Katie vs Mickie, I was surprised I liked this one, I'm not really a fan at all of Katie Lea, but this was a good match vs Mickie, the best of the night so far tbh

Edge vs Batista was very good, I'd say all the matches they had in 2007 on PPV were good ( JD, ONS and Vengeance?) and this one might have been the best.

Cena vs Triple H, I still think their best match was the one they had on RAW I think it was in the same year or maybe a year later, this was still better than good, of course HHH was gona get his win back over Cena,IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EPIC IF TRIPLE H WOULD HAVE MADE CENA TAP TO THE CROSSFACE...still good match,and good ending! MOTN here.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Lord have mercy. The Bossman/Snow feud has just escalated. Poor Pepper and poor Al Snow. Dude had the worst luck a character could have.


I just want to state for the record that I think the Kennel From Hell match is ***. Yeah.... What can I say? It genuinely surprised me, most likely its that high simply due to my expectations being that damn low going to rewatch it but fuck it.

Best Al Snow match off the top of my head.

Not best Bossman match, that most likely goes to one of the 1994 Vader slugfests.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig I'm at a loss. By the time two minutes elapsed I knew it was actively the worst Al Snow match I've ever seen. And he already was given some stinkers by WWF in 1998. I to had the world's lowest expectations. It's even a bit hard for me to classify it as fun wrestlecrap. It practically still is, but I was just blown away by it on the last watch about a month ago.

His best match is probably the ECW one vs Benoit, but in WWF it probably will be the hardcore collision vs Bob Holly at St. Valentine Day's Massacre. legit terrific stuff.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Pepper was a cute dog.

RIP


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im currently downloading 2001 wwf raw

dat INVASION


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Lazyking said:


> I really enjoyed Eddie's last ppv match with Batista but mostly because of Eddie.
> 
> Batista has had some good matches with people.. however this return has been dreadful.. Out of shape, looks like he doesn't care at all.


I honestly thought that match was a complete stinker. Fucking Hardcore Holly/Mr Kennedy from the same PPV is a better match (***1/4 btw)

Edit: Also Orton/Undertaker Casket. Did a review of it once and gave it like ****. I think I'm one of the only people on the planet that likes it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> Jericho/Kofi..as the crowd said..boring


This is how you know Kofi has always sucked :agree:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ruiner87 said:


> I honestly thought that match was a complete stinker. Fucking Hardcore Holly/Mr Kennedy from the same PPV is a better match (***1/4 btw)
> 
> Edit: Also Orton/Undertaker Casket. Did a review of it once and gave it like ****. I think I'm one of the only people on the planet that likes it.



Batista was absolutely atrocious in that match, but Eddie's character work was so good and the story of whether or not he would go back to the dark side kept that match from being a stinker IMO. Freaking Eddie, even when his body was completely broken, weeks away from dying, in the ring with a guy who literally struggled to walk and chew gum at the same time, and he still makes the match somewhat enjoyable. It was probably Batista's best match in 2005 outside of HiaC with Hunter, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot but still.

I'm curious to see whether they would have allowed Eddie to go back to being a full blown bad guy and had him do a real feud with Batista, or kept him good and had him feud with Orton. Eddie and Orton had a surprisingly good match on Smackdown just a week or so before he past.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Ruiner87 said:


> I honestly thought that match was a complete stinker. Fucking Hardcore Holly/Mr Kennedy from the same PPV is a better match (***1/4 btw)
> 
> Edit: Also Orton/Undertaker Casket. Did a review of it once and gave it like ****. I think I'm one of the only people on the planet that likes it.


I remember enjoying the Casket Match the last time I watched it.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Just watched the colons/Miz and morrisson fot the undisputed TT titles from WM25 preshow.

Wow amazing stuff in 8/10 minutes. The finishing move is out of this world. This match had a better reaction than the Main event.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Ruiner87 said:


> I honestly thought that match was a complete stinker. Fucking Hardcore Holly/Mr Kennedy from the same PPV is a better match (***1/4 btw)
> 
> Edit: Also Orton/Undertaker Casket. Did a review of it once and gave it like ****. I think I'm one of the only people on the planet that likes it.


I didn't enjoy it for the workrate.. I'll be watching it again but I remember watching Eddie fighting himself not to cheat and thinking that was great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Someone here mentioned Edge/Batista and how every single of their matches was good. Yeah both NOC matches were really good, JD was OK, but am I the sole person on Earth that dislikes the Cage match? It was just a bore to sit through for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I honestly don't remember a single match from their feud. Would be interested in checking out the worthwhile ones, though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Edge/Batista feud was kind of forgettable. The one in 2007 just started randomly when Undertaker got injured and it was about as bland as it can get. I enjoyed the cage match and Vengeance but not so much JD. NOC 08 had some good stuff but was also boring in parts.

EDIT: ATF, whatever happened to that goofy ass WM countdown? :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I gave the fuck up. And I'm not even a quitter. But I don't want to keep torturing myself with shitty WM matches. I have more things to care about (school, GOOD wrestling, girlfriend...) :side:

Btw, since you're the Orton expert, do you remember if Orton/Regal from England was any good?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

But you were just starting to reach the good stuff. Kinda odd to give up when you have made your way through so much shit. :side:

And Orton/Regal is quality, it just needed at least five more minutes to be truly great. That Half Nelson Suplex is NASTY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks. I was in doubt since it's Orton '08, but with Regal in there I was tempted.

Well, oddly enough, I still kept the rest of the list - the top 200 in particular. Here it goes (ignore the "Part" bits):



> PART 5
> 200 - Money Inc. vs. Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake, WM 9
> 199 - Harley Race vs. The Junkyard Dog, WM 3
> 198 - Demolition vs. Strike Force, WM 4
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck, that Half Nelson was DEADLY :mark:. 

Ya know, I don't think I've ever actually sat through the Batista/Edge matches. I've seen em getting praised for a few years now, which kinda shocked me given the 2 involved, but eh, cba to ever attempt them .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> But you were just starting to reach the good stuff. Kinda odd to give up when you have made your way through so much shit. :side:
> 
> And Orton/Regal is quality, it just needed at least five more minutes to be truly great. That Half Nelson Suplex is NASTY.


Regal's half Nelson suplex might be my favorite move ever. It's up there with Brock's belly to belly when he doesn't fall back and just throws the guy over his head, Benoits northern lights suplex into a bridge, and Regal's exploder suplex. Fuck it, this falls for a favorite moves list:

1. Regal's Half Nelsom Suplex
2. Brock's Belly to Belly w/o falling backwards
3. Benoits Northern Lights Suplex
4. Regal's Exploder Suplex
5. Regal's Knee Trembler
6. Cesaros Very European Uppercut
7. RVD's Van Damintor
8. Eddie's Beautiful Rolling Senton over the ropes
9. JBL's Clothesline from Hell
10. Benoits Headbutts (especially to Regal :mark: :mark


ATF : great list man, my top order would be a bit different though:

*****
1. Austin/Bret WM 13
2. Bret/Owen WM 10
3. Shawn/Taker WM 25
4. Savage/Steamboat WM 3
5. HBK/Benoit/HHH WM 20
6. Savage/Warrior WM 7
7. HBK/Taker WM 26

****3/4
8. Rocky/Austin WM 17

****1/2
9. Savage/Flair WM 8
10. Foley/Edge WM 22


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Alicia Fox has the best looking Northern Lights Suplex.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Thanks. I was in doubt since it's Orton '08, but with Regal in there I was tempted.
> 
> Well, oddly enough, I still kept the rest of the list - the top 200 in particular. Here it goes (ignore the "Part" bits):


Orton in 08 pre-injury was good, though. So there's nothing to doubt here!

And too much to look through but the top 10 is expected although I have a hard time believing a Warrior match is that good.



Cactus Jack said:


> Regal's half Nelson suplex might be my favorite move ever. It's up there with Brock's belly to belly when he doesn't fall back and just throws the guy over his head, Benoits northern lights suplex into a bridge, and Regal's exploder suplex. Fuck it, this falls for a favorite moves list:


Benoit's moveset could be all of my top 10. Honestly, the intensity and perfection for every move he did was just too much. Diving Headbutt is probably my favorite. Then I love the German, Snap and Dragon Suplexes.

BROCK'S power moves are :mark:. My favorite overhead belly to belly from him are ones done to monsters. The one on Mark Henry back in 2002 is unbelievable.

I'm a SUPLEX mark but I never liked the generic front face lock version.

I also love the Van Terminator/Coast to Coast. And the Swanton Bomb never looks anything less than awesome.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

A top MOVES list would be nearly impossible for me to create, I think.

Although I'm pretty certain Generico's BRAINBUSTAHHH would be #1. If only he were allowed to use that in the WWE, jeez. Dolph bouncing off the turnbuckle and flying halfway across the ring would be absolutely glorious.

Edit: The Blackout would be up there, also. Such a simple move yet insanely devastating. Fuck. Now you've got me started.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton in 08 pre-injury was good, though. So there's nothing to doubt here!
> 
> And too much to look through but the top 10 is expected although I have a hard time believing a Warrior match is that good.
> 
> ...



Your right in regards to Benoit, all his moves were damn near perfection. His snap suplex was better than anyone else's front face lock suplex. But his Northern lights was just a thing of beauty, the way he lifted the dude and did that perfect neck bridge was unbelievable. Of course the way he would just mercilessly club an opponents back while trying to get them into position for a trio of Germans was one of my favorite things about him. He didn't just allow people to do moves to him, if you wanted to super plex him you bet your ass you were catching a few stiff shots in the grill and you'd had to beat him back down before he'd let you do a big move like that.

Like in the Triple threat at Mania 20, that was one of my favorite parts. Hunter was bound and determined to super plex Benoit, but Benoit kept punching him right in the face and forcing Hunter to fight back. I think Hunter climbed up on that turnbuckle 3 separate times with Benoit fighting him off each time before it happened. That kinda thing is what made him the best, most guys don't put that kind of effort into every single minute detail of a match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What I love about Benoit's Snap Suplex is the leg kick that goes with it. Truly sets it apart from a regular suplex. The Northern Light rules too, specially the triples he did on RVD @ SummerSlam.

Brainbuster is :mark: too. Most impact moves are great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton in 08 pre-injury was good, though. So there's nothing to doubt here!
> 
> And too much to look through but the top 10 is expected although *I have a hard time believing a Warrior match is that good.*


Don't forget it's a RANDY SAVAGE match as well. Always there to put a grin on anyone's face. Seriously, not many can say they had the absolute total package in terms of ring ability as much as Macho Man. The very few would be... uhh... Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Terry Funk, Mitsuharu Misawa... maybe The Undertaker and Ricky Steamboat... that's all I can recall at the moment. I guess my icons Austin and Foley would come near too 

Plus, if you haven't seen Savage/Warrior yet, you're missing out on one of WM's absolute greatest masterpieces. I was 10 years old when I first watched that match (via Vintage Collection on TV) and even THEN I knew I was watching something phenomenal. It's what drew me to Savage in the first place. Storytelling PERFECTION. Only reason I didn't give it ***** was that the ending felt a little contrived imo, but still done OK'ish for what it was. And that aftermath... oh God that aftermath, so fucking beautiful :ex: Go do yourself a favor and watch that match. Also watch Rockers/Haku & Barbarian and Harts/Nasty Boyz from the same show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit's Wild Bomb is #1. Undertaker also has some incredible moves.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> What I love about Benoit's Snap Suplex is the leg kick that goes with it. Truly sets it apart from a regular suplex. The Northern Light rules too, specially the triples he did on RVD @ SummerSlam.
> 
> Brainbuster is :mark: too. Most impact moves are great.


Oh man, how could I forget the Brainbuster?!

The one Eddie gives Rey on the steel steps was fucking AWESOME. Also, at the GAB, Eddie threw a twist in his 3 amigos suplexes. On the third suplex, he hit Rey with a just BRUTAL Brainbuster instead that made the entire crowd go "ohhhhhhhh". If you do that move right, it's one of the best. Generico did a great one.

C2D: you really, really, need to watch Savage/Warrior WM 7. But don't watch it after watching a bunch of Benoit stuff, it doesn't have the technical mastery that a Benoit match will have and you might not see it for how truly great it is. It's best if it's the first match you watch for the day. I still think Steamboat/Savage is slightly better than this, but it's DAMN close.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Agree with others here, go watch Savage/Warrior. I was never too high on it, but still always thought it was great. Had it at ***3/4 then bumped it up to ****1/2 last year when I watched all the WM's.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I heard about Warrior no seling 5 elbow drops which has turned me off a little. There's no selling and then there's WARRIOR.

Speaking of UNDERTAKER MOVEZ, I've always found this funny looking: (even more when ROCK does it)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

:ass


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> Plus, if you haven't seen Savage/Warrior yet, you're missing out on one of WM's absolute greatest masterpieces. I was 10 years old when I first watched that match (via Vintage Collection on TV) and even THEN I knew I was watching something phenomenal.


I was about to scream and shout bloody murder over this then I looked it up and realised Vintage Collection started 6 years ago.... hot damn son time passes weirdly. Back then I was an untainted 16 year old shitting up this place with horrific opinions rambling about pish no-one cared about, I'm glad I've changed so much Hutz . 

Also yeah Savage/Warrior is outstanding, I'd happily call it Savage's best match as well with ease.

Gonna throw out THE STARZ~!# to your top.... 39, fuck it

39 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WM 22 - ***1/2
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes, WM 27 - ***1/2
37 - Evolution vs. The Rock N' Sock Connection, WM 20 - ***
36 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Bobby Lashley, WM 22 - ***1/4
35 - Chris Jericho vs. Christian, WM 20 - ***1/2
34 - Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper, WM 8 - ****1/2
33 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, WM 24 - ****1/2 (seriously those last two really surprised me with how low they are (Ok maybe not Michaels/Flair 'cause I'm not starting THAT discussion again)
32 - Chris Jericho vs. MVP vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Carlito, WM 24 - ***3/4
31 - Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon, WM 17 - ******************** on the fun scale, **** on the actual scale 
30 - The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WM 18 - ****1/2
29 - Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 19 - ***1/4
28 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, WM 14 - ****
27 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 23 - ***3/4
26 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 6 - ****1/4
25 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 27 - ****3/4
24 - Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WM 3 - ****1/2
23 - Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, WM 21 - ***1/2
22 - Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, WM 19 - ****1/4
21 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, WM 21 - ***1/2
20 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 17 - ***1/2
19 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WM 24 - ****1/4
18 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, WM 28 - ***1/2
17 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, WM 10 - ****
16 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WM 8 - ****1/2
15 - Edge vs. Mick Foley, WM 22 - ****1/2
14 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WM 21 - ****
13 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 16 - ****1/2
12 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, WM 23 - ****
11 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WM 29 - ****1/2
10 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WM 19 - ****
9 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 17 - ****
8 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 28 - ****
7 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 7 - *****
6 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WM 20 - ****1/2
5 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WM 17 - *****
4 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 26 - ****
3 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 25 - *****
2 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, WM 10 - ****1/2
1 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, WM 13 - *****

Eh, who cares?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nobody really does care but I appreciate, why thank you. 

Also, my low rating on both Piper/Bret and HBK/Flair is simply because I used to put both of those on a high pedestal, but upon review I didn't think they were as good as previous watches. Obviously both stand out for the great stories they tell, but I just didn't feel they were as good, so I lowered them. Still great matches though.

Oh, and y'all talk about best moves ever and not mention The Miz's Figure Four? :troll


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gonna Yeah1993 a few Swagger matches

I have flair/hbk at *****


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think I'll throw out my stars for the top 39 as well 

39 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WM 22 - ****
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes, WM 27 - ***3/4
37 - Evolution vs. The Rock N' Sock Connection, WM 20 - ***
36 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Bobby Lashley, WM 22 - ***
35 - Chris Jericho vs. Christian, WM 20 - ***3/4
34 - Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper, WM 8 - ****
33 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, WM 24 - ****
32 - Chris Jericho vs. MVP vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Carlito, WM 24 - ***3/4
31 - Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon, WM 17 - ****
30 - The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WM 18 - ****1/4
29 - Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 19 - ***1/2 
28 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, WM 14 - ****
27 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 23 - ****1/4 
26 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 6 - ****1/4
25 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 27 - **3/4
24 - Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WM 3 - ****1/2
23 - Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, WM 21 - ***1/4
22 - Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, WM 19 - ****
21 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, WM 21 - ****1/4 
20 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 17 - ****1/4 
19 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WM 24 - ****1/4
18 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, WM 28 - ****1/2
17 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, WM 10 - ****1/4
16 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WM 8 - ****
15 - Edge vs. Mick Foley, WM 22 - ****1/2
14 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WM 21 - ****1/2
13 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 16 - ***3/4
12 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, WM 23 - ****3/4
11 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WM 29 - ****1/2
10 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WM 19 - ****3/4
9 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 17 - ***3/4
8 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 28 - ****
7 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 7 - ****1/2
6 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WM 20 - *****
5 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WM 17 - ***3/4
4 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 26 - ****3/4
3 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 25 - *****
2 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, WM 10 - ****3/4
1 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, WM 13 - *****

Skins your new sig :moyes1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Gonna Yeah1993 a few Swagger matches
> 
> I have flair/hbk at *****


Of course you do 


No shame in overrating something involving your 2 favorites, I gave Eddie/Benoit Vengeance 2003 ****3/4 which is higher than anyone else I've seen give it. I especially love that match because it's when Eddie FINALLY found the Latino Heat character that made him a main eventer.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol I watched it this weekend, and I tried to view it as objective as possible. I actually think their BB 03 match is good at best so it isnt compete markdom. But yea the mania match is perfection to me, cant think of anything bad about it, both men's performances were outstanding


about eddie/benoit, I actually remember loving the AM 2002 match much more, the vengeance was solid


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll throw in my STARS for that top 39:

39 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WM 22 - ***3/4
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes, WM 27 - ***3/4
37 - Evolution vs. The Rock N' Sock Connection, WM 20 - *
36 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Bobby Lashley, WM 22 - **1/2
35 - Chris Jericho vs. Christian, WM 20 - ****
34 - Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper, WM 8 - ***1/2
33 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, WM 24 - ****
32 - Chris Jericho vs. MVP vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Carlito, WM 24 - ***1/4
31 - Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon, WM 17 - ***
30 - The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WM 18 - ****1/4
29 - Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan, WM 19 - 1/2* 
28 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, WM 14 - ****
27 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 23 - ****
26 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 6 - ***3/4
25 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 27 - ****3/4
24 - Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WM 3 - ****1/4
23 - Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, WM 21 - ****1/2
22 - Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, WM 19 - ****1/4
21 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, WM 21 - ****1/4 
20 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 17 - ****1/4 
19 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WM 24 - ****1/2
18 - CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, WM 28 - ****1/2
17 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, WM 10 - ****
16 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WM 8 - ***1/2
15 - Edge vs. Mick Foley, WM 22 - ****1/2
14 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WM 21 - ****1/2
13 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 16 - ****1/4
12 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, WM 23 - ****1/2
11 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WM 29 - ****1/4
10 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WM 19 - ****1/2
9 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WM 17 - ***1/2
8 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WM 28 - ****3/4
7 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WM 7 - ****1/2
6 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WM 20 - ****1/4
5 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WM 17 - ****1/2
4 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 26 - *****
3 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WM 25 - *****
2 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, WM 10 - ****3/4
1 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, WM 13 - *****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

STARZ


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RENEE


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 37 - Evolution vs. The Rock N' Sock Connection, WM 20 - *


Is this what KING CAL ON CRACK is like?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao if you combine the star ratings on all five of HHH's matches on the 9/23/99 episode of Smackdown, you would probably get a total of two! And Undertaker's slight transition period from Lord of Darkness to semi-ABA deadman in 1999 is hilarious. "Guys, our work here is done. Let's go venture in to the night". Or how about Undertaker sitting on commentary and threatening to stab Big Show while Big Show wrestles in a handicap match. Or Undertaker quitting on Vince McMahon :lmao

All of us should have at least one match that we overrate like hell. For Killa Cal, it is Taker/Austin from Backlash 2002. For Cody, I guess it's Muta/Chono or some other match. And somebody here had HHH/HBK HIAC at ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Is this what KING CAL ON CRACK is like?


No, that's what a bunch of shitty/green/out of shape workers attempting to have a match is like .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I really, really don't like that WMXX Evolution tag and I'm kind of baffled so many people do. I guess I'm not surprised so many people like it as much as I'm surprised so many people REALLY like it.


WHICH MATCH DO I OVERRATE HUH?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I accidently left the evolution tag as the last persons rating, *1/2 for that


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I disagree Smitty, I loved the evolution vs. rock & sock mania, so much fun


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Only good performances in that match are by Orton and Flair, one of Micks worst performances and Rock really had no reason to come back and turned on a shite performance as usual


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I knew I wasn't crazy when I watched Rock & Sock vs. Evolution and got bored of it. We are in agreement that Rock/Goldberg was really boring too right?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Evolution/Rock N Sock Connection is an awesome match :mark:

Yeah Rock/Goldberg is just awful though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Only good performances in that match are by Orton and Flair, one of Micks worst performances and Rock really had no reason to come back and turned on a shite performance as usual


Mick said he wasn't happy with his own performance in that one.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Mick said he wasn't happy with his own performance in that one.


I have watched that match numerous times and i still don't see why Mick hates that match so much.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I remember the Evolution/Rock&Sock match being super fun. I guess I'll have to watch it again.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I remember the Evolution/Rock&Sock match being super fun. I guess I'll have to watch it again.


:clap :clap smart man you are Greg.

I'm really looking forward to re-watching Beniot/Jordan from The Great American Bash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao if you combine the star ratings on all five of HHH's matches on the 9/23/99 episode of Smackdown, you would probably get a total of two! And Undertaker's slight transition period from Lord of Darkness to semi-ABA deadman in 1999 is hilarious. "Guys, our work here is done. Let's go venture in to the night". Or how about Undertaker sitting on commentary and threatening to stab Big Show while Big Show wrestles in a handicap match. Or Undertaker quitting on Vince McMahon :lmao


I hardly remember anything from '99 lol.  Such as Takers' 'semi transformation'. Forgot he was effectively 'ABA Taker' before he came back in 2000


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> :clap :clap smart man you are Greg.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to re-watching Beniot/Jordan from The Great American Bash.




Isn't that match like 20 seconds? Or am I thinking of a different Benoit squash?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Summerslam match is a squash, GAB match is easily the best Orlando Jordan match of all time


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, my bad then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SMITTY said:


> Summerslam match is a squash, GAB match is easily the best Orlando Jordan match of all time


How about this then


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Evolution vs Rock n Sock again. It's not up to par with some of the Raw tags that year and there's too much Foley as FIP and not enough ROCK, but overall, it's a fun match and I highly enjoy it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So Meltzer gave Wyatts/Shield on RAW a better rating then there ppv match fpalm


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

If you're going to shit on his opinion, at least post what he wrote for context.



> The Wyatts beat The Shield in 13:53 of a ****½ match. I thought this was slightly better than their PPV match, because there were more layers to the story and Rollins was just going wild, almost like he was trying to be Volador Jr. or La Sombra on the Fantastica Mania tour with non-stop crazy moves. Ambrose & Rollins did a double tope on Harper & Rowan to start out. Rollins later did a flip dive on Harper and another flip dive on Rowan. Reigns had this big smile on his face watching Rollins go crazy, almost like he was a fan admiring it himself. Match had super heat. Wyatt was killing Ambrose with elbows from the top. Ambrose was getting beaten on, went to his corner to tag Rollins, and Rollins jumped off the apron. This was one that nobody saw coming since he'd been the peacemaker with the problems. He walked out while Reigns started arguing with him. He told Reigns that he and Ambrose have to figure it out. It turned into a 3-on-2. Reigns was a one man wrecking crew with a Samoan drop on Rowan and a superman punch to Harper and Wyatt. Reigns threw Rowan over the new announcers table (they got a second one after Lesnar destroyed the first one). Harper then kicked Ambrose's head off and did a tope onto Reigns. Ambrose got posted and Wyatt pinned him with Sister Abigail while Rollins watched from the stage.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't mind his rating at all for that match, but he didn't exactly explain why it was better than the EC match. He just said that it had "more layers", which is still fairly questionable. But it's Meltzer. He made a fool out of himself on Monday.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Raw match isn't anywhere near as good as EC, Meltzer is on crack. That EC is one of the better US 6 mans ever, off the top of my head only the 2/3 Falls WCW one with Zybysko/Anderson/Eaton vs Rhodes/Steamboat/Koloff tops it.

I gave it ****3/4, same as Cesar/Zayn, but Cesaro/Zayn narrowly edges it for my current MotY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are in agreement that Rock/Goldberg was really boring too right?


Nah I like that match a lot.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Nah I like that match a lot.


You of all people. I thought you would hate how long it went and how it undermined Goldberg's strengths and exposed his weaknesses. Did you also like Jericho/Goldberg from Bad Blood?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't remember it undermining Goldberg's strength, I thought the whole thing was the Rock being an asshole about escaping things he had no actual right to escape from. Almost getting lucky or smartly dodging things while Goldberg was selling [and 'Goldberg doesn't sell' tends to be a major complaint with the guy so I thought people way appreciate that]. It's like the Rock was in big trouble the whole time yet acted like he was the best ever and was all ''who is this chump?''. It went 13 minutes, btw.

I remember liking the Jericho but it's been since like 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I really, really don't like that WMXX Evolution tag and I'm kind of baffled so many people do. I guess I'm not surprised so many people like it as much as I'm surprised so many people REALLY like it.
> 
> 
> WHICH MATCH DO I OVERRATE HUH?


Remember when we used to be on the same page? :hayley2

DID YOU SEE I POSTED MENG VS BOBBY EATON "ELSEWHERE"?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Remember when we used to be on the same page? :hayley2
> 
> DID YOU SEE I POSTED MENG VS BOBBY EATON "ELSEWHERE"?


Bobby Eaton, what a hack, we should be talking about Craig Pittman :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What in Allah's glorious world just happen? Cody is a moderator? Please Cody, crush those heathens in the General WWE section for all of us.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WCW shows never disappoint with random dream matches I didn't know I had. Haven't watched it yet but it's ****1/2.


I have to come up with several new nicknames for Mod Cody.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cody's a mod :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> WCW shows never disappoint with random dream matches I didn't know I had. Haven't watched it yet but it's ****1/2.
> 
> 
> I have to come up with several new nicknames for Mod Cody.


Corporate Kane?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Corporate Kane?


:lmao that's perfect. He needs to find a picture of Gaga in a business suit and make it his new avatar.

Cal, do my eyes deceive me, or did you really give Flair/Savage WM 8 just ***1/2? The hell man, that match is everything that's good about wrestling. Easily the nature boys best match during his first wwe run, in fact it's his second best wwe match behind only the Cage match with Hunter.

Edit: here Cody, I did the work for you https://www.google.com/#q=gaga+business+suit that first picture that comes up is where it's at :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gaga wore a suit in the _Born this Way_ video. It can be accomplished. *EDIT* Nevermind. I'll be done for me. Haha.



William Murderface said:


> Bobby Eaton, what a hack, we should be talking about Craig Pittman :mark:


Try saying that w/a straight face in person. Can't be done. 8*D



Yeah1993 said:


> WCW shows never disappoint with random dream matches I didn't know I had. Haven't watched it yet but it's ****1/2.
> 
> 
> I have to come up with several new nicknames for Mod Cody.


The punches seen. My god the punches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Therapist: When was your first sexual encounter? 
:henry1: I was 8.
Therapist: Who was it with?
:henry1: My sister.
Therapist: YOUR SISTER?!
:henry1: This ain't helping me. 
Therapist: When was the last time you had sex with your sister?
:henry1: ...day before yesterday.

I believe we talked about Eaton/Meng before. I remember us also talking about Pillman/Meng in that same conversation. MENG! Did you guys see the recent picture of him wearing a Bullet Club shirt?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> He needs to find a picture of Gaga in a business suit and make it his new avatar.o


http://imagemaven.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lady-gaga-7.jpg?w=640

Therrrrrrre we go.


------

Got one more Doink match to watch before moving onto Wrath and Mortis.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think I saw that Meng picture. Either way, fabulous. Dunno about the whole Henry thingy tho...was that something from 1999?

Jheri, you great poofy haired lad, you. Did you watch Doink vs Bob Backlund for that list? Please tell me you did.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It was from 1999 when he had to go to sex addiction therapy. The TiT is really fun. Can't wait to get to the finals. Part of me honestly enjoys it more than the TLC classics.

Cody, why are you arguing with those peasants in the AE>PG thread?

Doink/Perfect and Doink/Jannetty better have been reviewed. Two very special matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't remember that bit in the slightest. I need to refresh myself on some Sexual Chocolate memories.

I'm not. Made a civil post and moved on. tbf the OP tackled the topic in a good manner and I thought I'd post about it. But I fear it may go south real quick up in there. :shaq


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Insurrextion 2000 review *

*Match #1: 2 Cool vs Dean Malenko and Perry Saturn *

This match should be OK, although I feel like these UK PPVs never deliver on anything so I’m not expecting too much tbh. 2 cool was over as FUCK in 2000, makes there matches a little more fun to watch because the crowd is into it throughout. Why did Malenko only stay as a wrestler for one year in WWF? He wasn't too old I think and could still a go a good bit, but maybe he was getting old IDK cant be arsed to look up how old he actually is. This match was eh, nothing too special at all because it seemed like all 4 guys were phoning it in and wern't really going as hard as they could be. Afterwards Malenko and Saturn brawl, yeah I dont really care. Anyways this wasn't too bad and it was nice that the crowd was hot for the match but it was basically your standard tag match from start to finish. **1/4

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #2: Kane vs Bull Buchanon 

NO 

CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #3: Road Dogg vs X-pac 
*
This should be a fun match although Road Dogg was never known to be a fantastic singles wrestler, I cant believe hes still wrestling in 2014 :lmao. RON SIMMONS is on commentary :mark:, this dude is awesome, shame he was never anything more than a midcarder. Farooq gets ejeected though, so no commentary from him . Torrie is also here and is beintg a fucking idiot for trying to interfere in the match. This match was pretty solid though considering it wasn't given much time and was probably seen as mostly a filler match but I enjoyed it a good bit. Bradshaw controlled the majority of the match so it was a little more exciting than if Road dogg did. But this was fine for a filler match. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5 *

*Match #4: The Kat vs Terri* 

NO 

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #5: Showkishi vs The Dudley Boyz 
*
This should be pretty fun, but not expecting greatness or anything, but 2000 is probably the best year for Rikishi and the Dudleyz so you never know. So is Show part of too cool now :lol? Show is wearing a skirt like thing too :lmao. So apparently Big Shows name is Showkishi, yeah I'm not changing the name of the match though :lol. This match was a load of fun, these 4 had a really good tendency to put on fun big man matches and that is what this was, a :mark: match full of big men, two of them REALLY big :lol. I :mark: for the double stinkface in this, played to Rikishi and Show perfectly. Shows Chokeslam on Bubba was :mark: as well. Well after an Edge and Christian run in 2 cool picks up another victory, though this was better than the opener I thought by a pretty good margin, definitely MOTN so far. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2

Match #6: Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit *

Hmm, I like their matches a whole hell lot more than some of the folks in this thread but I don’t think any of them are better than ****, woudn’t put any higher than that yet apparently there is a match with them in 2001 that is amazing, will get to that soon enough. You know I've always thought that Angle looks better without hair then with. IDK why that thought just came to my mind . Is this the first singles match from these two? I know they had a triple threat with Jericho at WM 2000 that I havent seen but apparently it sucks, which is extremely dissapointing if true. This match was really good for the short time it was given, only about 6-7 minutes. If this had been given 10-15 minutes then we would have probably had a borderline great match on our hands but alas due to time restraints they did what they could with the time given. Basically this was a great preview in a series that had a bunch of great matches. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #7: The British Bulldog vs Crash Holly *

This sounds horrible, why is bulldog here? Wasn’t he retired by this point? Oh well hopefully this is short as I cant see it being much at all. Well this was fucking horrible as I expected. Now, I have never been a huge Crash Holly fan but I don’t think hes that bad, just doesn’t really have any charisma. However he almost carried this match to not being a fucking embarrassment, key word there is almost . Bulldog is like the orginal Batista when it comes to failed comebacks(OK maybe that’s warriors 96 and 98 returns but whatever), this dude could not go in the ring and even in a fucking hardcore match where you can usually rely on spots with weapons but even that didn’t work, might be the worst hardcore title match of all time that’s not one of the silly ones where the guy takes the title when the champs sleeping but still, this was just pure unadulterated garbage. DUD 

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #8: Hardy boys vs Edge and Christian 
*
Well this should be pretty good, this PPV has been pretty good despite the overall low rating it will get on the CAL scale. Pretty pumped for this because these two always have some :mark: matches and 2000 was easily the best year for Edge and Christian and maybe the hardys too, it was the first year where anyone in the WWF really gave a shit about tag team wrestling as before it was a shitty division. Pretty fun brawl so far and Edge and Christian are really awesome heels here, well both of them are much better as heels so I guess that his no surprise. This match is fucking fantastic though, really enjoyable throughout, solid wrestling mixed with a :mark: wrothy brawl. The only thing wrong with the match is the DQ finish didn't make much sense but the match was good enough that it didn't really take much out of the match. The Dudleyz run in was :mark: worthy too. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3 

Match #9: Chris Jericho vs Eddie Gurrero 
*
Uh oh, I’ve seen this and its long and boring and no way and hell am I sitting through it again. NO

*CAL SCALE: -1 

Match #10: HHH vs The Rock vs Shane McMahon 
*
This should be a fun match, best year for all three guys in the ring=probably a good match. Looks like this will be given the perfect amount of time too at only around 15-16 minutes as any longer would probably make this go downhill quickly, but this should do nice. Rock and HHH start out aShShane tries to stay away from the action, yeah that didn't last too long :lol. Shane in Triple H were great heels in this match, and you also had Vince and Steph at ringside to cause more trouble, the odds certainly seemed stacked against the Rock. Shane and HHH tried to work together for a little bitbut eventually they started going against each other, but the rock is still getting the shit beaten out of him. This is pretty fun tbh, really enjoyed the majority of the match and Rock not getting in any offense in was a nice change of pace. I'm also a pretty big Shane McMahon mark so I enjoyed him in this match. The entire McMahon clan played the heel role very well, great match here surprisingly. ***1/2

*CAL SCALE: 3 

FINAL CAL SCALE: 8.5 

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day(20)
2: Insurrextion(8.5)
*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I would have watched Kane vs Bull. Guaranteed ugly slugfest right there.

Skipping Eddie/Jericho but watching Angle/Benoit. How brother, how? Well Benoit was the best of the four at that time, so I guess that's plenty feasible. Actually kind of curious in seeing the match again. Most other Benoit matches when paired w/Angle are not my cup of tea, but Angle in 2000. And it's short. hmm. That actually could be fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Never doubt the terribleness of Eddie in 2000-2001 

And that is actually a really fun Benoit/Angle match, pretty fun match for the time given


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't have much to call Eddie "bad" during that time. I think he was largely a victim of circumstance iirc. Circumstance being not given the time & effort to develop much within his matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah that and he was hopped on plenty of shit at that time, making his matches pretty sloppy at times, however I really enjoyed Eddie/Saturn/Malenko at JD 2000, thought it was a fun match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Saturn from Fully Loaded 2000 is real good too. Don't remember if the Lucha oriented bout vs Essa Rios from Backlash was any good. Been much too long since I've seen that event. Buying it on PPV, to be exact.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Essa/Eddie was terrible when I watched the event circa September, but I remember liking the FL match he had.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Only good performances in that match are by Orton and Flair, one of Micks worst performances and Rock really had no reason to come back and turned on a shite performance as usual


Rock was the best thing about that match tbh, IMO. 

I keep confusing you with 'skins, btw, due to your sig.




SMITTY said:


> So Meltzer gave Wyatts/Shield on RAW a better rating then there ppv match fpalm


Meltzer's right.


Brock Lesnar is EVERYTHING. Just had to state that after watching some more of his shit. All-time faves group, officially, at this point.


That *Mysterio vs. Brock Smackdown* match was a beauty. Why does no one ever talk about it? Brock was such a great asshole, and they played it perfectly for a big vs. little man match, with that limited amount of time. Fast action that totally made sense. ****.

I never saw Brock use that submission move before either.


Some other random matches that I've watched:

*Punk vs. Jericho [Chicago Street Fight] at Extreme Rules '12.* *** 3/4 - ****. I liked this more than the WM match. Dunno why, but something about the WM match doesn't grab me, even though it's a well worked match.

This was a bit choppy, but still fun. Felt both men's exhaustion, which was nice, and Jericho is always great with the smarmy facial expressions. He's perhaps the best at it. I like that it felt like neither man could ever really get each other for much of the match.

I also like when people dress appropriately for street fights.


*Sheamus vs. Bryan [2 out of 3 Falls] at Extreme Rules '12* - Fun match. Don't know how I'd rate it, but it kept my attention the whole time. I was so relieved that there was no chicanery with AJ, since they said that she was lurking around. 


Still think that *Brock vs. Cena at Backlash '03* was Cena's finest earlier match that I've seen. The only major one that I haven't seen is that Taker PPV match. 

There was one rest hold from Cena that went on for literally four minutes, but other than that, I thought that it was pretty enjoyable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie vs Saturn from Fully Loaded 2000 is real good too. Don't remember if the Lucha oriented bout vs Essa Rios from Backlash was any good. Been much too long since I've seen that event. Buying it on PPV, to be exact.


Just watched that event (BL 2000) yesterday on the Network. Eddie/Essa wasn't anything special but it wasn't horrid either.

Also watched JD 2001, man that event is sweet. Austin/Taker is a pretty good brawl, but man Austin was probably the best wrestler in the world in 2001, it should have been SO much better. Surprisingly I enjoyed the Trips/Kane chain match more. I continue to believe the First Blood match at FL 1999 was Austin and Takers best match. Judgement Day is a solid #2 though. Jr recently asked Austin on his podcast why his matches with Taker never lived up to the hype. Austin's answer actually made a ton of sense. Throughout his career Austin pretty much always called his matches, as did Taker especially during the later years. Since those guys had so much respect for each other, they split the matches 50/50 and each would call stuff. That led to a lack of coherence and a "too many cooks in the kitchen" type problem. 

I enjoyed Regal's face after receiving the stink face more than any match that night. Might actually rival the Duchess of Queensbury face :lmao

Lilolme: that move is called the Brock Lock, first time I saw it was when he used it on Benoit, but he could have used it before. Atleast I'm pretty sure that Mysterio match was after the Benoit match.

Bryan/Sheamus 2/3 Falls is glorious, probably Bryan's second best WWE match after the OTL match with Punk.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've never been much of an Essa Rios/Mr. Agulia fan, so that's not a surprise.

Austin vs Undertaker from JD '01 is epic. I actually really, really like Kane vs HHH too, but the Championship match > w/o a doubt. Austin & Undertaker almost made up for never having any good matches vs each other by having that one be as stellar as it is. Austin in 2001. One of the better individual years around.

I think I can pick at least ten matches Danielson has had in WWE that is > vs Punker @ OTL 2012.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> What I love about Benoit's Snap Suplex is the leg kick that goes with it. Truly sets it apart from a regular suplex. The Northern Light rules too, specially the triples he did on RVD @ SummerSlam.


Generating that velocity - like a pitcher winding up his fastball. Mmm is good. 




> Brainbuster is :mark: too. Most impact moves are great.


Indeed. Steiner Screwdriver is probably the winner in most "Bah God he killed him!" category.

Think I'd take the Lariat as my personal favorite move. It's such a thing of beauty when done right. :mark: every time. Close second for a Back Suplex/Drop, and then a crazy toss up between Hurricanrana, Drop Kick, Super Kick, Powerbomb, and a high-arcing German Suplex. 

A well-designed move-set can define you as much as anything else. Used properly, it fits the larger than life persona, accentuating their character with a unique arsenal of ways to deal damage. Not just in the few signature stuff, but counters, sequences, and little things like choosing strikes, holds, etc. builds cohesion within a character. It's about making everything your own - Funk, Muta, Hansen, Kobashi, Mysterio, Macho et al. are that rare type who make everything they do stands out from everyone else - anybody can snapmare/hit ropes/elbow drop - only one looks like Muta.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: HilariousTripleHFace













This was from his "retirement" promo in 1999 too. Oh, what could have been!



Always been a fan of Saturn. He's not the kind of guy that will carry bad workers to good matches (except Goldberg), but put him with someone good and he will give you something real nice. And more often than not, he was put in that favorable position. Sorta like Alex Wright. Both guys were great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wheelbarrow suplex or bust.

and I'm a big Perry Saturn guy, tbhayley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Brock/Angle Iron man for the first time and loved it, Brock's performance was outstanding, and control segment were breath taking.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Did you watch Doink vs Bob Backlund for that list? Please tell me you did.


Watched one, yup.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Doink/Perfect and Doink/Jannetty better have been reviewed. Two very special matches.


Those are phenomenal but I'm sticking to stuff I haven't seen. I can say someone had a great year because his ''big'' matches were great, but I want a better look at the matches I've never heard of.



Cactus Jack said:


> Lilolme: that move is called the Brock Lock, first time I saw it was when he used it on Benoit, but he could have used it before. Atleast I'm pretty sure that Mysterio match was after the Benoit match.


Rey match was the week after the Benoit one. 12/4 and 12/11. 


I don't care for Perry Saturn and actually think he isn't good at all. Fuck, I'll watch him after Wrath and Mortis. Maybe I'm missing something. Actually if someone wants to point me to specific matches I am down.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Just watched Brock/Angle Iron man for the first time and loved it, Brock's performance was outstanding, and control segment were breath taking.


_*****_ for a TV match, it was EPIC


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saturn had a few peachy scuffles w/Van Hammer in early 1998. I liked the PPV - SuperBrawl - match vs Booker T a lot. I know you don't like Booker tho. (or is that only Cal?) vs Raven are a given. Avoid the crapfest vs Kanyon from GAB '98. I fear that's already your general impression of him. But eh, if you're not a fan, you're not a fan. Try a Jericho match from 1999 too. But not the Dog Collar match. Unfortunately, it's shit.

Always found him to be a fun guy to watch for the majority. Oh and OBVIOUSLY watch both matches vs Goldberg.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Booker, especially in 1998. I'm usually a guy defending him when stoopid Call calls him shit. I'll save that paragraph in a word doc, thnx ModCody...Modod....''Mody''....I'll think of something.

What about ''Cody the RED''??????! Or...''KOFI KINGSTON FAN''?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Just watched Brock/Angle Iron man for the first time and loved it, Brock's performance was outstanding, and control segment were breath taking.



One of the 2-3 best 60 minute matches ever, if we don't count Flairs 55 minute matches with Steamboat. Brock in that match is as good as any wrestler has ever been. Angle was damn good too, but Brock is who kept me entertained for the entire 60 minutes. Hell the first 10 minutes are just amazing and Brock spends most of the time just pacing the ring. I need to pop in the HCTP set tomorrow and give that another watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn all you guys always trying to bring UC into a conversation. 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Downloaded Fully Loaded from XWT, so since it's in great quality, I should probably give Jericho/HHH a rewatch because it's been a while. Also have the Magnum TA/Tully Blanchard cage match queued.



JustJoel said:


> Generating that velocity - like a pitcher winding up his fastball. Mmm is good.





Spoiler: perfection














:mark:



> A well-designed move-set can define you as much as anything else. Used properly, it fits the larger than life persona, accentuating their character with a unique arsenal of ways to deal damage. Not just in the few signature stuff, but counters, sequences, and little things like choosing strikes, holds, etc. builds cohesion within a character. It's about making everything your own - Funk, Muta, Hansen, Kobashi, Mysterio, Macho et al. are that rare type who make everything they do stands out from everyone else - anybody can snapmare/hit ropes/elbow drop - only one looks like Muta.


A unique moveset always sets wrestlers apart from everyone else. Doesn't even have to be exclusive moves. Benoit took a few of Dynamite Kid's moves and made them his own because of how perfect and devastating he made them look.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Damn all you guys always trying to bring UC into a conversation. 8*D


I'm trying my best to unify everyone in that AE>PG thread through talking about UC's ineptitude, but that HBK fan keeps making a fool out of himself. To think he's 50 years old...:lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Downloaded Fully Loaded from XWT, so since it's in great quality, I should probably give Jericho/HHH a rewatch because it's been a while. Also have the Magnum TA/Tully Blanchard cage match queued.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think having a unique and varied move set is obviously really, really important. But I think it's even more important for wrestlers to know when to use a move and how to lay out and space their moves for maximum effect. I also think it's better for a wrestler to have 5 moves they do better than anyone else than to have 20 they do just about as good as other guys. Not everyone can be Benoit, who can do just about any wrestling hold, suplex, chop, kick, you name it better than anyone. 

Take a guy like Malenko, that guy could do just about every move Benoit could just not nearly as well. Would anyone seriously consider him a better wrestler/worker than Mick Foley? Foley had about 5 moves he did as well as anyone and took better and sicker bumps than anyone, but he was a master of doing everything for maximum effect and not doing anything in the ring "just cause". 

Terry Funk and Jerry Lawler could have matches consisting entirely of punches, stomps, and forearms, but it would be a match almost no one could top.

So yes moves are important. Cesaro's absolutely kick ass move set has definitely helped get him over with the crowd. But he wouldn't be half the wrestler that he is if didn't use his moves at the perfect times and use everything for massive effect. Doing great moves can get the crowd interested, but using those moves at the proper times to make great matches will keep the crowd interested and get you over for good.

WWE seems to have finally realized that the only way a wrestler is going to get over and STAY over is if he's great in the ring. Can anyone honestly think of one single guy that has gotten over and STAYED over in the last decade or more without being a damn good wrestler?

Honestly, Batista is the only guy that comes to mind, but he was carried to some great matches throughout his run that made the audience buy into him. Now that he isn't being carried to greatness, we all see how it's turning out.


Edit- who is brining up UC? I haven't mentioned Kofi Kingston once!


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

OK now I realize this won't be a very impressive write up because it's only based on 3 shows but let's give it a shot. 

WWF vs. NWA 1985


*Match Quality*

The NWA wins this one hands down. It's not even close. Aside from the fact that they just have better quality matches they have a lot more variety on their cards. I'll admit that a Bull Rope Match, Sombrero on a Pole, Street Fight, I Quit inside a cage, and Steel Cage might have been a bit much in terms of gimmick matches but I can't complain about the results. Really what made the show good was every match felt different at Starrcade. 

Now look at what they had on the "The Wrestling Classic." There were like a million matches and they all were short matches and it was like watching the same 5 minute match 12 times in a row. If we're looking at the time of the matches I'm giving the NWA the nod there as well. They managed to have good matches when the match didn't have much time but they also gave the main events enough time to be good. I saw 2 WWF show with like 25 matches total and the longest match as the Wrestlemania I main event that was a little over 13 minutes. There was one other match on that show (Brutus/Sammartino) that went over 10 minutes. The WWF gave their talent nothing to work with at all and they had some really good guys on their roster. 

From a match quality perspective there isn't much I can say that the WWF did better. I guess I can say that if I'm watching a 5 minute undercard match without a feud the WWF might be my choice but that's just because they did stuff in their matches. 

*Production Values*

I think a slight edge goes to the WWF but it really isn't that apparent now as it will be as I move forward. They both have the single light above the ring with no real entrance ramps or anything. 

*Storylines*

The NWA gets the nod here as well. Their main event featured Flair and Dusty dealing with an injury that had been inflicted months ago and you saw some early signs of the Horsemen forming. Oh, and Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard was just about the perfect feud ender. When you compare that to a Body Slam Challenge or a celebrity wrestling in the main it isn't even close. 

*Overall*

It should be obvious by now that the NWA easily wins this. 


I think as I move on and see more shows I might actually be able to talk about a MOTY or something but doing that with 3 shows just seems silly knowing how many other matches must have taken place in these companies during that year.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> A unique moveset always sets wrestlers apart from everyone else. Doesn't even have to be exclusive moves. Benoit took a few of Dynamite Kid's moves and made them his own because of how perfect and devastating he made them look.


It's funny, but when I think Benoit, the signature spot for me is the test of strength - a common opener in wrestling, generally. But Benoit had so many things that came from it - bridge, go-behind/Nelson/roll-up exchange, Mexican Wheel, etc etc. things like that which really laid out what he was about: prideful, tenacious, dexterous, technically gifted/clever, on and on. Little bits like that define a character for me as good as any promo could - maybe even moreso, one is just talk and the other is going out and _demonstrating_.



Cactus Jack said:


> Take a guy like Malenko, that guy could do just about every move Benoit could just not nearly as well. Would anyone seriously consider him a better wrestler/worker than Mick Foley? Foley had about 5 moves he did as well as anyone and took better and sicker bumps than anyone, but he was a master of doing everything for maximum effect and not doing anything in the ring "just cause".


I would. I'm sure that's not conventional here, but both excelled using two different approaches. I find Mick's style slow, anti-climactic, and often stunt-based to make up for his otherwise non-threatening appearance. Love the character, but I don't find myself wanting to go back and see it again. He was an amazing character wrestler, and took some sick bumps, but I digress. 

Dean wore a bitch down. Nobody out-wrestles him. He had one of the most diverse move-sets and related it back to his finish and his character. I go back for his '94-98 often. He doesn't give away his emotions, plays it close to the vest - something that always struck me as refreshing when most are dancing for and/or making tough-guy faces into the camera. It came across to me like it meant something to him - not to be popular, but to be _good_. Personal taste and all that, but I prefer Malenko.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, doing a bunch of moves is not enough if you can't even use them properly at the right time.

I have to say one thing about Benoit's execution of moves, though. Watching some of his matches in HD has made me see it clearer than before - he's got some weak ass punches. They are kinda like forearms but they always look so weak and clearly look like they hit the chest rather than the face. But he makes up for it by having the very best knife edge chop ever. Chests be bleeding from that shit!

-----------------

Got done with the TA/Tully I Quit match. Excellent storytelling, the ending actually felt like the final fight scene of an action movie. So well done.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm trying my best to unify everyone in that AE>PG thread through talking about UC's ineptitude, but that HBK fan keeps making a fool out of himself. To think he's 50 years old...:lmao


Don't you know it's far more important to try and tell others who's opinion is much more superior? It's the law of the jungle over there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, doing a bunch of moves is not enough if you can't even use them properly at the right time.
> 
> I have to say one thing about Benoit's execution of moves, though. Watching some of his matches in HD has made me see it clearer than before - he's got some weak ass punches. They are kinda like forearms but they always look so weak and clearly look like they hit the chest rather than the face. But he makes up for it by having the very best knife edge chop ever. Chests be bleeding from that shit!
> 
> ...


Yea you're right about Benoits punches. I think a lot of that is that he learned in Japan, where guys would just throw real punches and connect, they'd just ease up on them and not throw them full strength. When he'd started working in the US he never really learned to throw a proper working punch. I think that's why he relied of his unbelievably brutal chops and those clubbing blows to the mid section. He does have awesome kicks to an opponents mid section though.

I'd honestly rather see a guy throw a nice good looking forearm than a weak looking punch. And I HATE how a lot of guys. Triple H being the biggest offender, grab the guys head with one hand and punch with the other. In what universe to people actually throw punches in a fight like that? It's like training wheels for punches, you can't throw a good one so you use one hand to hold the guys head steady and jerk it back to make it look like you connected. Every wrestler should just study the Deadman or Lawler and learn to punch properly.

We are all in agreement that 2002-2010 HBK has the worst punches of any main event wrestler ever, right? God those things are AWFUL.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kensuke Sasaki or Kenta Kobashi have a good argument by way of the chop department. And regardless how anyone feels about him, what Roderick Strong did to Danielson's chest in late 2005 is infamous.

Bob Holly was pretty bad, but even he could be mentioned too. Rockin' chops.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Kensuke Sasaki or Kenta Kobashi have a good argument by way of the chop department. And regardless how anyone feels about him, what Roderick Strong did to Danielson's chest in late 2005 is infamous.
> 
> Bob Holly was pretty bad, but even he could be mentioned too. Rockin' chops.



:clap for the Bob Holly mention. I don't know about the other 3 guys you mentioned, but out of guys that I've watched, Bob Holly is the only rival for Benoits "King of the Chops" status. When he would get going those things would echo loudly throughout an entire arena.

Best chops I can remember seeing are the ones Benoit gives Jericho in the start of the NYR 2005 EC match. My god those things were just sickening to hear. Jericho throws some doozey's right back at him too.

Anyone remember how Ortons chest looked when he came out for the best of 7 match with Benoit in 06'? The match hadn't even started and Ortons chest was just a deep dark plum color from working with Benoit over the previous weeks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

After recently reliving stuff like Royal Rumble 2005 & Judgment Day 2005, Holly couldn't be snubbed. My stars did he throw all of his pent up anger into those chops.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking of which, are you guys aware that Mick Foley once carried three other people to a good match by literally just sitting on the steps? The match is between Rock & Sock and the Hollys on the 10/18/99 edition of RAW. Rock threw away Foley's book in the trash earlier that night, which made Foley so distraught. Mick sold that feeling so well during that match just by sitting on the steps that the crowd stopped chanting for The Rock and focused on Foley. Once again, Mick Foley literally made this match good by doing nothing else but SITTING. And consider the fact that the Hollys suck and Rock forgot to sell his rib injury in the second half of the match. One of the greatest carryjobs ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Anyone remember how Ortons chest looked when he came out for the best of 7 match with Benoit in 06'? The match hadn't even started and Ortons chest was just a deep dark plum color from working with Benoit over the previous weeks.


Haha, yeah. Looked like it had been cooked. Midway through their last Best of 7 match, Orton starts blocking the chops because it looks like he can't take any more of it.

I also noticed during the Bad Blood match with Kane the other day that Kane's chest is slightly bloody near the end. Plus the Flair match on Raw right after Benoit came over. Flair is straight up BLEEDING from the chest. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Mick FUCKIN Foley, ftw.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> :clap for the Bob Holly mention. I don't know about the other 3 guys you mentioned, but out of guys that I've watched, Bob Holly is the only rival for Benoits "King of the Chops" status. When he would get going those things would echo loudly throughout an entire arena.


For reference:






Seriously now, those old-school puro guys light people up. Another good reference would be Kobashi/Joe from ROH which was brutal on poor Samoa Joe's chest. 

Also in complete agreement on the wrestling punch/forarm position, and that's true generally as a rule: Don't do stuff you don't do very well. Like you said before, better to do 5 moves you're great at, than more if one is a botch/noticeably not on the level of the other 5. You're just bringing down stock and exerting needless energy and dishing out more pain for diminishing returns. WWE is usually very good about this, to the point of over-compensating and keeping things relatively simple (because sitting in a headlock and working the face is better than "pointless mat wrestling").


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK, I give up, what does ''UC'' stand for?

I've honestly never minded Helmsley grabbing the head on punches. Objectively it might not make a whole lot of sense but IDK, I could see it being used in one situation or another. What is really awful is how he goes 'dooj' on every hit. And every time he gets hit.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

It's no worse than Umaga's "GOSH! GOSH! GOSH!" on his punches. Honestly don't remember anything about Umaga's punches other than the "GOSH!". 

Shane McMahon's punches circa 2009 pls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Useless Cunt.

I can't help but feel most don't notice the awful/hilarious guttural noises H makes when throwing or taking a punch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Jericho makes the GOAT noises when striking someone. I don't even know how to phonetically spell it.

You know who UC is. Just think and use context clues. And watch the Foley carry job I mentioned.

:lol normally I notice that sound, but I'm watching a HHH match right now and I didn't even notice that I was watching a HHH match, let alone hear those noises.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MENG makes a lot of noises. But he's MENG so you don't really pay much attention and just enjoy the ridiculous beat down that is often laid out.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> *Useless Cunt.
> 
> I can't help but feel most don't notice the awful/hilarious guttural noises H makes when throwing or taking a punch.


Hulk, and Hollywood Hogan's in particular, were the best - a crossroads where grunting made words. "A-russia...ana-crushya" :lol

Big E's are probably the worst on the current roster -yeah, worse than H's. Haitch only has to be heard half a dozen times a year, but Big E's "Eyargh!" is featured every week, and is absolutely the only noise he makes in the ring.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jericho makes a very specific noise when doing a strong irish whip or running with a ladder or something that's supposed to be a decently big move. Yeah, it's impossible to spell out and everybody knows it. 

I remember a Meng match where he was breathing heavy the entire match like ''wrho-ha-ha-hah'. The ENTIRE match.


I don't like Foley's 'wah-deh' on punches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> Hulk, and Hollywood Hogan's in particular, were the best - a crossroads where grunting made words. "A-russia...ana-crushya" :lol
> 
> Big E's are probably the worst on the current roster -yeah, worse than H's. Haitch only has to be heard half a dozen times a year, but Big E's "Eyargh!" is featured every week, and is absolutely the only noise he makes in the ring.


:lmao

Def true w/both guys.



Yeah1993 said:


> Jericho makes a very specific noise when doing a strong irish whip or running with a ladder or something that's supposed to be a decently big move. Yeah, it's impossible to spell out and everybody knows it.
> 
> I remember a Meng match where he was breathing heavy the entire match like ''wrho-ha-ha-hah'. The ENTIRE match.
> 
> ...


I like Foley's.

Meng did that vs Undertaker in Japan. It wasn't long, but w/the Japanese audience being how they are, it's all you hear.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

If we're talking about in-ring noises, nothing can beat that weird hissing sound that William Regal makes. I've never heard a man intake air so ferociously.

Speaking of William Regal, I just watched the Benoit/Regal match from Velocity in 2005, for the first time ever. ****, easily. Watching Regal go for repeated pinfalls was an absolute joy. Normally it annoys me when a wrestler goes for a repeated pinfall, mainly because they'll do it twice, and then get back up and go about the match. Regal goes for the pin four or five times in a row, on two different occasions, though. It really looks like the dude is trying to finish the match, and it gives the bout a certain authenticity that few could hope to replicate.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> Def true w/both guys.
> 
> ...


Don't think I've seen Meng/Taker from Japan tbh. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like very much how UC has caught on to the masses in here .

Also, yey Cody is mod. Now he can do all the work and I can sit back and relax. You know, more so than usual...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

As far as WWF/E goes, the post-Bret era guys ruined the art of punching in WWF. Everyone took them for granted: wrestlers, refs, bookers... And it translated onto fans. It's like everyone threw the rulebook outta window, you know. Remember the pre-Hogan era in WCW, and the pre-AE era in WWF? You had to distract refs in order to hide close fisted punches you throw at opponents. Flair, Dustin, Arn, Vader, Savage... 

Triple H is the absolute worst puncher. Followed by HBK. Speaking from technical side, of course.


EDIT:

Typing this made me want to watch bloody lucha brawls or some vicious BattlARTS violence by Ikeda and Ishikawa. You know, guys who know their punching game.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Speaking of punches, towards the middle-end segment of Austin/Rock WMXIX, there was the worst string of "punches" I think I've ever seen.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe...st_of_RAW_After_the_Show_DVD_and_Blu-ray.html



> "For 52 weeks a year, the WWE Universe is glued to their seats for 3 hours of pulse pounding action on Monday Night Raw. But what happens after the cameras stop rolling? Now, in this new DVD/Blu-ray set, The Best of Raw: After the Show, fans get a unique perspective of WWE’s flagship show, with never-before seen footage of Raw’s aftermath. Traditionally, Raw has continued on into the night purely for the enjoyment of the live audience. Now, no one is left in the dark as all the top Superstars in Raw history are presented in rare form.
> 
> Get a heavy dose of WWE’s most colorful Superstars- The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, DX, John Cena and more, showing off their larger than life personalities, often times shedding their on-camera personas for the sake of pure fun. From Austin beer bashes, birthday celebrations, humorous improv, crowd interaction, and dark matches sure to please the hardcore fan, these are the moments that can only happen in WWE."


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark matches. Hope they are good.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

That set is going to be sweet.

I remember some guy on Youtube had a bunch of after/before show stuff that was taken from the signal of the production trucks or something. 

If its anything like that, it will be a joy to watch.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-best-raw-after-the-show-dvd/62020/

Meh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow. About 3 things I remotely wanna see. Undertaker doing a Spinaroonie, HHH/Flair Vs HBK/Orton (from 2005 :mark and Cena/Punk in Boston.

Could they have put more Austin on the set though? Fuck me...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A Cena/Punk match that happened in Boston on 7/11/2011? Well, there's the killer app.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Wow. About 3 things I remotely wanna see. Undertaker doing a Spinaroonie, HHH/Flair Vs HBK/Orton (from 2005 :mark and Cena/Punk in Boston.
> 
> Could they have put more Austin on the set though? Fuck me...


I remember hearing about the segment with Undertaker not too long ago. Not going to spoil anything but it did sound pretty absurd. 

I think Austin's on it so much because he's really the guy that started doing all the cool stuff after the show went off the air and if he was in the arena he would be the one out there for so long.

I would be interested in getting the set. It looks like there is a lot of fun stuff on it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Just six Jericho matches left from 2000 but I watches all of his PPV matches and here's my ranking:

1) vs. Triple H (WWF Fully Loaded, 23.07.00, Singles, Last Man Standing) 
2) vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Judgment Day, 21.05.00, Singles, Submission, WWF Intercontinental Title)
3) vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Backlash, 30.04.00, Singles, WWF Intercontinental Title) 
4) vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Summerslam, 27.08.00, Singles, 2 Out of 3 Falls) 
5) vs. X-Pac (WWF No Mercy, 22.10.00, Singles, Steel Cage)
6) vs. Kurt Angle (WWF King of the Ring, 25.06.00, Singles) 
7) vs. Kurt Angle (WWF No Way Out, 27.02.00, Singles, WWF Intercontinental Title)
8) vs. Eddie Guerrero (WWF Insurrextion, 06.05.00, Singles, WWF European Title)
9) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (WWF Wrestlemania, 02.04.00, Triple Threat, WWF Intercontinental Title/WWF European Title)
10) vs. X-Pac (WWF Unforgiven, 24.09.00, Singles)
11) vs. Kane (WWF Armageddon, 10.12.00, Singles, Last Man Standing)
12) vs. Chyna vs. Hardcore Holly (WWF Royal Rumble, 23.01.00, Triple Threat, WWF Intercontinental Title) 
13) vs. Kane (WWF Survivor Series, 19.11.00, Singles)
14) vs. Kane (WWF Rebellion, 02.12.00, Singles)

pretty good year as a whole but the TV matches still sucked


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OK, thoughts on Austin/Flair & Show @ Judgment Day '02? I watched it decades ago and forgot how much worth it is, curious to rewatch soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ArnoldTricky said:


> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-best-raw-after-the-show-dvd/62020/
> 
> Meh.


Pretty much. Matches are underwhelming IMO.

Suppose it will be interesting seeing some of the segments, like the Taker one lol

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> Just six Jericho matches left from 2000 but I watches all of his PPV matches and here's my ranking:
> 
> 1) vs. Triple H (WWF Fully Loaded, 23.07.00, Singles, Last Man Standing)
> 2) vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Judgment Day, 21.05.00, Singles, Submission, WWF Intercontinental Title)
> ...


I'm not big on that Backlash 2000 match AT ALL. Felt very pointless and the dead crowd certainly didn't help. I don't know, it wasn't BAD or anything, but it isn't anywhere near the Summrslam 2/3 Falls or the Triple H Raw match in State College. Those 2 guys are capable of so much better, hell their Fall Brawl 1996 match blows that Backlash 2000 match clear out of the water. Obviously their RR 2001 match is the best in the entire series, and a ***** match IMHO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So after watching SD, here's what I suspect the WM card is shaping up:



Spoiler: WM card



CONFIRMED:
Randy Orton (c) vs. Batista for the WWE WHC Title _(Lord help us all :lmao)_
(vs. CM Punk in a Triple Threat match if he decides to return, which doesn't seem to be happening but you never know)

The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar

BASICALLY CONFIRMED:
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan in a Control vs. Career match

John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt

Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns in a Triple Threat match for the US Title

SUSPECTED:
Sheamus vs. Christian in a No DQ match

Cody Rhodes vs. Goldust

Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger (maybe vs. Big E (c) in a Triple Threat match for the IC Title)

AJ Lee (c) vs. Tamina Snuka for the Divas Title

The Usos (c) vs. The New Age Outlaws in a Ladder match for the Tag Titles

Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio



Looks pretty good. I guess.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

ATF said:


> So after watching SD, here's what I suspect the WM card is shaping up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got the people in bold winning that potential card. Really only four matches I would want to see TBH. The IC possible triple threat, Shield three-way, Trips v Bryan and Taker v Brock. I have a horrible feeling Cena and Wyatt will bomb horribly. Brock vs Taker should be the main event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For some reason, I do too feel pessimistic regarding Cena/Wyatt. I know they have had a decent build up, I know Bray Wyatt is himself worth watching in the ring and he's in there with John Cena, and I know that it will all be worth it in case Wyatt goes over, but still, I have a bad feeling these two won't click that well in the ring. I mean, even though Bray more than held his own, it's not that hard to have good/great matches with the likes of Daniel Bryan and The Shield, right? Everybody has high hopes for this match, I'll keep mine mild in hope to be surprised.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

@ATF



Spoiler: ATF's Mania predictions



*Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio*

:lmao :lmao :lmao

*Cody Rhodes vs Goldust*

Not sure about that. Have they even been on TV in the last month?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: WM card



I watched the international version of Smackdown already, and it is clear they're building up to a Ziggler/ADR match. Don't know if it is WM, but I would guess they wouldn't want to throw one of their golden boys Alberto out of the card, and since Ziggler is hopeless too, they threw them together.

As for Cody/Goldust, it was just a rather bold prediction. I don't think the WWE will want to neglect both of them either.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Random stuff

Bryan/Wyatt RR14-****
Shield/Usos/Rhodes HIAC 13-***3/4-****
Bryan/Orton HIAC 13-***3/4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I wasn't laughing at you, ATF, btw. Just WWE.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Spoiler: WM



Based off this Smackdown, looks like Ziggler-ADR, Sheamus-Christian (still) and Show-Kane are being built towards. I highly doubt Rhodes-Goldust happens.

Still no idea what they're doing with The Shield.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Spoiler: SD



Actually support Ziggler/Del Rio being on the 'Mania card. It would give Ziggler something to do, and hopefully he would go over in the feud. Plus, these two have great chemistry. Provided that the WWE would give them sufficient time for the match, and would actually book some sort of decent mini-feud between the two as of oppose to some random match-up, this could be good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Spoiler: WM LOL



Big Show's back? :lmao

vs Kane? :lmao


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Thank goodness for spoiler tags.

Maybe I should watch Shield vs Hell No/Ryback :hmm:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Thank goodness for spoiler tags.
> 
> Maybe I should watch Shield vs Hell No/Ryback :hmm:


Great match. (Y)

TLC 2012 was pretty good, IMO. Opener was good, the Tag Match was great, and I liked Ziggler/Cena. The crowd was very impressive, as well.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Great match. (Y)
> 
> TLC 2012 was pretty good, IMO. Opener was good, the Tag Match was great, and I liked Ziggler/Cena. The crowd was very impressive, as well.


Big Show/Sheamus was awesome as well.

I just recently watched Show/Sheamus from HIAC and that finish is just :banderas


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Show/Sheamus at Survivor Series is also worth watching if you haven't. Not the greatness of the HIAC match, but still a very good match. Feel the same about that followup match that I do as Ziggler/Rio at MITB 2013. Payback was incredible, but MITB deserves a look.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Odafin Tutuola said:


> Spoiler: WM LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Matches like those happen if you're not having MITB at Mania. And I'm talking about 3 pointless singles matches we're probably getting.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Big Show/Sheamus was awesome as well.
> 
> I just recently watched Show/Sheamus from HIAC and that finish is just :banderas


Yeah, I enjoyed the Show/Sheamus series of matches, in general. Their HIAC was my favorite. After that, he and Del Rio had a solid match on SD when ADR beat Show for the WHC, in a LMS match. 

Decided to throw on Elimination Chamber 2011 on the Network on my PS3 just now.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Yeah, I enjoyed the Show/Sheamus series of matches, in general. Their HIAC was my favorite. After that, he and Del Rio had a solid match on SD when ADR beat Show for the WHC, in a LMS match.
> 
> Decided to throw on Elimination Chamber 2011 on the Network on my PS3 just now.


That show is :mark:

I remember Miz/King being pretty awesome as well.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> That show is :mark:
> 
> I remember Miz/King being pretty awesome as well.


Yeah, I liked both EC matches quite a bit. Watching the WHC one right now. This crowd is pretty good, too.

Did you attend? I remember you saying you were in Cali, earlier on ITT.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RhodesForWHC said:


> Yeah, I liked both EC matches quite a bit. Watching the WHC one right now. This crowd is pretty good, too.
> 
> Did you attend? I remember you saying you were in Cali, earlier on ITT.


No, I was only at SummerSlam 2013.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> No, I was only at SummerSlam 2013.


Jammy fucker 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I remember the Sheamus vs. Big Show matches surprising the fuck out of me. Didn't expect such great matches from them, especially the HIAC one, I think it was.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Jammy fucker
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Believe me i know how lucky I am


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watching Vengeance 2003 on the Network

Benoit/Eddie: ****1/2

-match dropped 1/4* from last watch, but it's still absolutely amazing. I love their Armageddon 2002 encounter almost as much, but Eddie's character work in this one is what puts it over the top.

APA Invitational: ***

-one word: FUN. Love the days when the WWE would let their wrestlers drink Jack and smoke stogies on television. JBL was just smashing shit all over everyone's faces and it as AWESOME. Pool cue spots were brutal.

Rey & Kidman/WGTT: ****1/4

-these fellas absolutely killed it. Non stop action, great transitions, and some cool moves I have never seen before. Kidman is so underrated he's almost overrated, if that makes sense. Just an awesome wrestler. Dont know what I'm talking about? Go watch his BL 2003 match with Tajiri and get back to me. 10 minutes of wrestling bliss. And Rey is Rey. WGTT was excellent here as well

Big Show/Lesnar/Angle: ****

-what a bad ass main event to finish one of the best shows in WWE history. My lord Big Show was great in 2003-2004. Lesnar was his usual beast self and Angle played his part. This match was WAY better than it had any right to be, which speaks to the level of effort all 3 guys put in. Bloody, brutal, and non stop action for 17 minutes.


Undertaker/Cena: ***3/4

-man this match was SO much better than I remembered it being, so much. Simple story of the Undertaker wanting to teach the brash and arrogant Cena a thing or two about respect, even going so far as to lift Cena's shoulders off the mat instead of taking an early 3 count. This of course was a mistake, Cena proceeded to fight back and bloody the mighty Taker. Great punches thrown by both guys, simple enough match that was executed superbly. By the end of the match everyone had to respect Cena a little more, and it think Cena definitely respected the Undertaker more.

Vince/Gowan: ***3/4

-man what a great story, Vince was about as evil as it gets here, and Gowan gives the baby face performance of a lifetime fighting back as the one legged under dog. Yes it makes getting sympathy a lot easier when you look like he does and have one leg, but Gowan actually sold really well here and he timed his come backs perfectly. And my god does Vince hit a pumper in the end with that chair spot.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Jammy fucker
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


And now these bastards are getting Slam AND Mania.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

McMahon/Gowan is Vince playing the role he was born to play but never gets to be in the ring. He's the monster heel that bullies the little guy he's in the ring with.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vince McMahon's 2003 is honestly a better wrestling year than most others. All of his PPV matches were at least three stars. Go review Cena/Taker. Best brand split PPV.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Bryan/Cena SS13-****1/2 

Probably my personal favorite Cena match, he makes Bryan look like a million bucks and then some.


----------



## KozmicLuis (Mar 3, 2014)

Внимание! Внимание! - _Lana when she introduces Russev_

I was just watching Smackdown and Raw in *Japan 2005*, those Angle vs Mysterio matches really caught my attention back in the day. The fans were really passionate and the pop Eddie Guerrero got on that Smackdown was amazing. Gotta love dat entrance by HBK with all the fans clapping and stomping, bowing down to Ric Flair and that annoying girl screaming EDGEEE! EDGEEE!!!! all the time during his match with HHH.
I did not like Wild Pegasus vs Chris Jericho (submission match), I wanted to skip it so badly but the crowd was worth listening to. I don't know if Tajiri and Funaki went one on one during their time in the WWE, but that's my guilty pleasure dream match.

NVM, I found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxctXPG7rQ


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

As stated the WHC EC Match was :mark:. Love the last sequence between Rey and Edge. McIntyre and Barrett getting eliminated so early though is . Would have loved to have either of them lasted longer, perhaps be one of the last three.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Vince McMahon's 2003 is honestly a better wrestling year than most others. All of his PPV matches were at least three stars. Go review Cena/Taker. Best brand split PPV.


Just finished Cena/Taker I'm gonna watch Vince/Gowan now.

This really is one of the best PPVs ever. I'd even go so far as to say it's top 5 in WWE history. Everything has been awesome so far.

I don't know why I even asked about a Vince McMahon match, of course it's worth the watch. That man is so god damned entertaining in the ring. He and Hogan some how some way, in the year 2003, tore the house fucking DOWN with that match at WM 19. That's a personal favorite to watch, if just for the part where Vince finds the lead pipe and rises up from under the ring like fucking Dracula :lmao it really gets me every single time.

If you ever want to laugh out loud, go watch his I Quit match with Stephanie. Vince K. McMahon, the only promoter to ever have an I Quit match with his freaking daughter :lmao

This brings up another point: In the history of mankind, who do you think has had the biggest set I grape fruits? My top 5 would be (in no particular order):

Travis Pastrana
Mick Foley
Vince McMahon
Evel Knievel
The "Real Spider-Man" dude who does all those insane free climbs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lolololol @ putting Triple H giving the pedigree to Zack Ryder on that dark match RAW set.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I feel like I should get the Network now so I can watch some older PPVs. I've always wanted to watch Vengeance 2003 in full. I remember Undertaker vs. Cena being pretty good. I think that's the only match I watched off that PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go and buy that whole show. It's terrific. I don't even care for Benoit vs Eddie either & still love it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Go and buy that whole show. It's terrific. I don't even care for Benoit vs Eddie either & still love it.



Now you're just baiting me 

Really there isn't one bad match on the entire show, everything is worth the watch. Off the top of my head, only 4-5 other PPV's in wrestling history can lay claim to that feat. It's rather impressive.

Eddie/Benoit was the MoTN for me, but man that Tag match really, really ruled. Mysterio and Kidman were such an excellent baby face team.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's just so meh. I've gone into detail about it before. No point to do it again. It's not exactly bad, but given the scale of both, it's a miss.

Everything else though. Well, Noble vs Gunn is passable, but still. Noble wins so yay. I love the show a ton. Tag championship match FTW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would have thought that you would dislike the tag match because you would consider it a spotfest. Or maybe it was Cal that thought that. I don't know. One of you guys don't like fun matches. I think it might be the ginger.

Of course, for all I know, Cody might be the ginger. For all I know, Cody might be a girl.

Now Test. There's a guy with a highly underrated moveset. Elbow drop, pumphandle slam, sitdown chokeslam, gutwrench powerbomb, big boot, test drive, test grade, full nelson, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There isn't much w/Benjamin & Haas that I don't love in 2003. They were practically the workers of the year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How about the Bashams? :kurt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sweet jesus, please no. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can confidently say that the Bella Twins are better wrestlers AND have a better match catalog than the Basham Brothers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nikki's shock treatment backbreaker >


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

They don't even look like each other. Can't believe (kayfabe wise) referees were always fooled when they cheated by switching places and won tag team matches. Then again referees are always idiots.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Since everyone is talking about it, I guess I just added watching Vegeance 2003 to my to do list this weekend. I saw the entire PPV about 4 years ago but for some reason can't remember anything. I do recall Cena/Taker which I have at ****. Their SD '04 match is also highly rated.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley- do you like the Eddie/Benoit match from Armageddon 2002? Eddie is a pure heel there instead of the tweener character I loved in Vengeance.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Could someone give me a list of really great Benoit WWE PPV matches that are NOT these (seen these):

Benoit vs. Jericho Ladder Match at RR '01
Royal Rumble '04
Benoit vs. Triple H vs. HBK at WM20 & Backlash 2004
Benoit vs. Kane at Badd Blood 2004
Benoit vs. Orton at Summerslam 2004
Elimination Chamber at NYR '05
Benoit vs. Angle at RR '03
MITB at WM21
Benoit vs. JBL at WM '06

I'm talking **** level or better.

Thanks!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit I love the Shield segment from SD.

^^^

Benoit/Finlay - JD '06
Benoit/RVD - SS '02
Benoit/Eddie - Vengeance '03
Benoit/Regal - NM '06
Benoit/Orland Jordan - SS '05 side
Benoit/Edge - Backlash '05
Benoit/Regal vs Batista/Flair - Unforgiven '04 (I recall this being good)
Lesnar/Benoit vs Team Angle - NWO '03


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Big Show/Lesnar/Angle: ****
> 
> -what a bad ass main event to finish one of the best shows in WWE history. My lord Big Show was great in 2003-2004. Lesnar was his usual beast self and Angle played his part. This match was WAY better than it had any right to be, which speaks to the level of effort all 3 guys put in. Bloody, brutal, and non stop action for 17 minutes.


Just watched this the other day. Loved the part where Lesnar and Angle both crawl into the ring, bloody, exhausted, and staring at each other. They both did the "staggered walk" thing well too.



Brye said:


> Holy shit I love the Shield segment from SD.


Yeah, it was great. Hopefully it's things like that that convince TPTB that there should be a bright future for all three of them.




> Benoit/Finlay - JD '06
> Benoit/RVD - SS '02
> Benoit/Eddie - Vengeance '03
> Benoit/Regal - NM '06
> ...


Thank you!

That Orlando Jordan match was the 20 second one, right? :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hayley- do you like the Eddie/Benoit match from Armageddon 2002? Eddie is a pure heel there instead of the tweener character I loved in Vengeance.


Yeah, good stuff as expected. When it comes to those two, my favorite in the US is their Nitro match in late '95.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Just watched this the other day. Loved the part where Lesnar and Angle both crawl into the ring, bloody, exhausted, and staring at each other. They both did the "staggered walk" thing well too.
> 
> 
> Yeah, it was great. Hopefully it's things like that that convince TPTB that there should be a bright future for all three of them.
> ...


:lmao Yup.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what are you fools talking about that match goes at least 25 seconds


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GAB tho. It's been a LONG time, but my process of wanting to find & like more Orlando Jordan matches from WWE, leave me to forever enjoy that match.

His TNA stint was actually better than most guys on the roster. Gimmick was awesome too once it stopped being so cut & dry about the sexuality & became more about embracing an exotico gimmick for what they're worth.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

OK just downloaded the WWE network, lets see how it goes


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, good stuff as expected. When it comes to those two, my favorite in the US is their Nitro match in late '95.


Yea we have discussed that match ad nauseum, what else is there really to say about that Nitro match? Best 10 minute match ever? I think so. The amazing thing to me is how they manage to work a fantastic control segment into such a short match.

Just watched Flair/Funk GAB 1989 on the Network. Skins if I were you, I'd dive head first into the WCW PPVs and just enjoy seeing all those phenomenal matches in great quality for the first time ever.

On the Flair/Funk match, it appears I'm a massive hypocrit. Just yesterday I stated how I hate when wrestlers grab another guys head and then throw punches. Well there is an exception to that rule and his name is Terry Funk. The way he does it is so much better than a guy like Triple H. Funk doesn't grab a guys head while he's standing and throw a punch, no no. He beat Flair down into a bloody pulp, then grabbed his head and just started throwing those beautiful lefts right into Flairs bloody forehead. That was awesome. It was like he was holding Flair up for support to keep him up and just pummeling him mercilessly. This GAB match might be as good as their more famous COTC I Quit match. I own that one on DVD so I'll have to check it out to be sure. But this match was really what I love about wrestling. Palpable hatred between two of the greatest ever, a good story going in with Flairs neck injury at the hands of the Evil Terry Funk. Funk being middle aged crazy and Flair the dirtiest player in the game. Funk does probably the best punch drunk stumble after eating about 10 turnbuckle punches from Flair. Finish was fine but this was one of those matches I wish went for 20 more minutes as I was just enthralled the entire time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's certainly one of the top contenders for best affair spun under that time limit. Two other random choices off the top of my head are Morishima vs KENTA 2007 & Vader vs Choshu 1989. Finlay vs Regal parking lot brawl counts too. Oh, Mysterio vs Angle from SummerSlam plz. Christ, the excellent tag championship match from that same PPV is under ten minutes too iirc. I'm having an overload right now and I haven't even scratched the surface.

Flair vs Funk GAB '89 > I Quit the same year. Both are fabulous, but the first match is the absolute tops.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea we have discussed that match ad nauseum, what else is there really to say about that Nitro match? Best 10 minute match ever? I think so. The amazing thing to me is how they manage to work a fantastic control segment into such a short match.
> 
> Just watched Flair/Funk GAB 1989 on the Network. Skins if I were you, I'd dive head first into the WCW PPVs and just enjoy seeing all those phenomenal matches in great quality for the first time ever.
> 
> On the Flair/Funk match, it appears I'm a massive hypocrit. Just yesterday I stated how I hate when wrestlers grab another guys head and then throw punches. Well there is an exception to that rule and his name is Terry Funk. The way he does it is so much better than a guy like Triple H. Funk doesn't grab a guys head while he's standing and throw a punch, no no. He beat Flair down into a bloody pulp, then grabbed his head and just started throwing those beautiful lefts right into Flairs bloody forehead. That was awesome. It was like he was holding Flair up for support to keep him up and just pummeling him mercilessly. This GAB match might be as good as their more famous COTC I Quit match. I own that one on DVD so I'll have to check it out to be sure. But this match was really what I love about wrestling. Palpable hatred between two of the greatest ever, a good story going in with Flairs neck injury at the hands of the Evil Terry Funk. Funk being middle aged crazy and Flair the dirtiest player in the game. Funk does probably the best punch drunk stumble after eating about 10 turnbuckle punches from Flair. Finish was fine but this was one of those matches I wish went for 20 more minutes as I was just enthralled the entire time.


Yea I'm watching spring stampede 1994 first, loving it so far.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The WWE had an entire PPV where basically every face wrestled like a heel and every heel wrestled like a face. I would love people to guess what that PPV was. And no, it did not rule. It was total shit.

Funk/Flair GAB 89 is glorious. Flair out of his confines while this berserk crazy individual beats the shit out of him. I just wish Funk won once against Flair. Even in a tag match. Unless if I'm mistaken. Someone please correct me.

SKINS go watch GAB 89. Perfect PPV.

I thought I saw the greatest carryjob ever last night when Mick Foley carried three other guys to a good match by just sitting down. I just witnessed Jericho somehow do an even crazier carryjob.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Wrestlemania II


*Paul Orndorf vs. Don Muraco* 
This was terrible. I can’t think of a redeeming factor to this match. They exchanged bodyslams, Orndorf, the face, then locked in an armbar that lasted for 2 of the matches 5 minutes. Then they ended up outside the ring and they got counted out. That was the whole match. I have no idea what the point of this was at all. I was wondering if these two had ever actually seen a match because they appeared to have no idea how to structure a match.
*DUD*


_Intercontinental Championship Match_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. George “The Animal” Steele*
I actually liked this a lot more than I was expecting to. Each guy had really unique characters and they played off each other really well. Steele has this crazy character and he plays it well. Everything that worked in this match worked because of how Savage reacted to him. At first he seemed perplexed and in danger of losing quickly because he couldn’t figure out what to do. But he eventually saw the weakness in him and took advantage of the fact that Steele wasn’t the brightest and was obsessed with Elizabeth. While the match was fun it’s hard to look past the fact that they really didn’t do much of anything in the ring. Savage worked hard but Steele was very limited. It was fun but that’s as far as I’m willing to go
***½* 


*Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. George Wells*
This was also better than I was expecting. Wells got in a lot of offense in a limited amount of time. What I found interesting is that this Wells wasn’t really anybody and this match was made to put Jake over. He won the match but he did it without looking faster or stronger than Wells and he didn’t really cheat to do it either. He just outsmarted Wells. 
**¾ *



_Boxing Match:_
*“Rowdy” Roddy Piper vs. Mrs. T*
This was such a shitty idea. I don’t really like boxing and a fake boxing match was even less interesting to watch. I’ll give Piper credit because he injected a ton of character into the match and it bearable with his antics and demeanor. That being said there is only so much you can do when the match is guaranteed to be boring based on how it has to be fought.
*½**



_Women’s Championship Match:_
*The Fabulous Moolah(c) vs. Velvet McIntyre*
This match was terrible. Velvet’s offense just looked horrendous, like worse than a lot of Divas we see today. The only reason I’m not giving this match a dud is because the opening 30 seconds were pretty great because Moolah just beat the shit out of Velvet. You can’t give a match a dud when an old lady just beats the shit out of someone.
*¼** 


_Flag Match:_
*Nikolai Volkoff w/Freddie Blassie vs. Corporal Kirchner*
There’s not much to say about this. It was super short and there really wasn’t anything to it. I’ve got nothing. 
*½* *


*20-Man Battle Royal *
This reinforces the general trend of battle royals being boring. There were some NFL player in the ring and it didn't look like they could really do anything in the ring. There was no real excitement to many of the eliminations and the crowd favorite, “The Refrigerator” Perry, was eliminated too early. And Jim Neighart had one of the ugliest eliminations I’ve ever seen. Andre kicked him in the chest not that close to the ropes and he proceeded to just run at the ropes and launch himself over the top rope. 
*¾**


*WWF Tag Team Championship Match:*
The British Bulldogs vs. Brutus Beefcake and Greg “The Hammer” Valentine(c)
I really wasn’t impressed with this match at all. It was way too one sided for my liking. The Bulldogs just beat the shit out of the champions and there really wasn’t much that the champions were able to do about it. I guess they got someone offense in but there was no control segment and at no point did I ever really think that there was any way that the champions were going to retain. 
****


*Ricky Steamboat vs. Hercules Hernandez *
You have Steamboat in the ring against a bigger guy that can move around and will take all of his moves. That statement alone should let you know that there is no way this is going to be a bad match. The pacing was good and the match had a basic structure. There isn’t anything here that makes it a great match but it was the first match in front of the LA crowd and it basically served the function of an opener and it did that well.
***½ *


*“Adorable” Adrian Adonnis w/Jimmy Hart vs. Uncle Elmer*
Hilarious. Adrian had to be overselling at the start of this on purpose. He would take a bunch and just launch himself out of the ring. It was hilarious and might be my favorite part of this terrible show. Uncle Elmer appears to be a truly terrible wrestler. He fell down throwing a punch. Think about that for a second. I’m torn on this match. On one hand it really wasn’t a good match at all. On the other hand seeing a large man dressed like a baby girl absurdly oversell everything while be called a gay slur by the crowd was pretty great. 
***



*Terry and Hoss Funk w/Jimmy Hart vs. Tito Santana and The Junkyard Dog*
They threw each other outside the ring a lot. Like way too much for a short match like this. Aside from that strange aspect to the match it was pretty good. Solid structure with a good hot tag and once the hot tag was made it was a really entertaining until the end. I’m getting tired of writing generic reviews like this. I’m also getting tired of watching generic matches like this.
***½ *



_Steel Cage Match for the WWF Championship_
*Hulk Hogan(c) vs. King Kong Bundy*
Everyone has seen this match before. Maybe not this exact match but you’ve seen this match before. It’s an injured Hogan in the ring with a monster. It is what it is. One thing that I found highly amusing was that it took Bundy so long to escape through the door because he could barely fit through the door. He was solid in the match and it at least felt like he was trying to to win and he targetted the injured ribs. There was a terrible spot where he hit a big splash and he sold the splash that he did longer than Hogan did. Hogan was terrible. It just was not a good performance. The injured ribs that the pre-match video talked about at length were a factor for about 30 seconds and other than that he was fine. He sold nothing, didn’t seem like he cared about escaping, and just did the usual Hulk Hogan stuff. I’m not giving this a low rating because it was the standard Hogan vs. Some Monster match. I’m giving it a low rating because it’s a type of match that has been done a million times yet it is still poorly executed.
**½ *​
Not a good show, in fact a pretty terrible one. Nothing was worth seeing and the show as a whole was a chore to sit through.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It's certainly one of the top contenders for best affair spun under that time limit. Two other random choices off the top of my head are Morishima vs KENTA 2007 & Vader vs Choshu 1989. Finlay vs Regal parking lot brawl counts too. Oh, Mysterio vs Angle from SummerSlam plz. Christ, the excellent tag championship match from that same PPV is under ten minutes too iirc. I'm having an overload right now and I haven't even scratched the surface.
> 
> Flair vs Funk GAB '89 > I Quit the same year. Both are fabulous, but the first match is the absolute tops.



I think you and I are the two biggest fans out there for that Summerslam 2002 tag with Booker and Goldust vs The Un Americans. It really is tag team wrestling at its finest. And Goldusts FIP segment in that match. My god. It really couldn't be any better. My top 5 all time favorite PPV's are:

1. Summerslam 2002 (the perfect event)
2. Beach Blast 1992
3. Spring Stampede 1994
4. Vengeance 2003
5. WrestleMania 19

Right after that would be GAB 1989 and 1990. So Funnyfaces you are spot on with reccomending Skins watch that event. I can't wait til WWE adds all the Clash's to the Network. There were like 27-28 of them right?

It's so cool to be able to just type "Vader" into the search bar of the Network and up pops several pages filled with links to all of his US PPV matches in high definition.

TaylorFitz-I have to ask man, I read all your reviews and really enjoy them. But why, why do you keep torturing yourself by watching all these old, awful WWE PPV's? Are you doing a project or something?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do people still think the Golden Era was good? I don't know what's so great about seeing legendary territory wrestlers transforming into Mr. McMahon's midcard circus acts. Except Savage somehow avoided it, but then he became Hogan's circus act. 1992 was dope though.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I do not remember that Benoit/Eddie match from Armageddon 02 at all.

Perhaps I should pop in my DVD :hmm:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I think you and I are the two biggest fans out there for that Summerslam 2002 tag with Booker and Goldust vs The Un Americans. It really is tag team wrestling at its finest. And Goldusts FIP segment in that match. My god. It really couldn't be any better. My top 5 all time favorite PPV's are:
> 
> 1. Summerslam 2002 (the perfect event)
> 2. Beach Blast 1992
> ...


To try and slightly speak for them: Yeah1993 & WOOLCOCK are large appreciators of that tag match too. The Booker/Goldust team has often been a hotbed for consensual love in here & elsewhere.

I actually really, really love Slamboree 1997 & Bash at the Beach 1997 to make them top contenders for a favorite ppv of mine. I'm never one for ranking many things. I don't know why. I love a lot and like to give adequate attention to it all, I suppose. Whatever the reason, those get mentions. I usually make the claim that something the likes of Beach Blast 1992 & Spring Stampede 1994 are probably the best ever and leave it there. 99% certain Bash at the Beach 1994 is a powerhouse event too. Unfortunately the only match I really recall off the top of my head is Hogan vs Flair. _(which is quite terrific to say the least)_ I know all the rest holds up. I'd just love to see it again for a fun refesher course. God damn WCW 1994 was the tops.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Spring Stampede 94 is most likely my favourite PPV ever, either that or Canadian Stampede.

WCW 1994 would be a contender for best year ever but then Starrcade 94 came in and shit all over life (Never mind BRUTUS BEEFCAKE main eventing, a fucking Mr T/Kevin Sullivan match? Good lord.) Not even the mighty and great JOHN TENTA could save the day.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't we just acknowledge Vader vs Duggan and assume the rest of the show was just as good?

but shit the shadow of 1995 came early w/that event. Hogan vs Butcher actually main eventing & Mr. T given a match b/c of Hogan stroke. Yikes. _(I thought Wright vs young not yet-HHH was a solid affair tbhayley)_


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

My old school WCW is very limited but any match from Sting/Vader seems pretty :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sting had a lot of goodies. No doubt. Vader was probably the most consistent of the bunch. I don't think he had anything I disliked until he locked up w/Hogan @ Uncensored.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> My old school WCW is very limited but any match from Sting/Vader seems pretty :mark:


Fuck yeah. Superbrawl being the best, but every time they locked up it was magic, includes tag matches too. :mark:

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It is infuriating that WCW did not run a Dustin v. Vader feud in 95. Look at the crowd in the incredible 94 match, the interest was there.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Sting had a lot of goodies. No doubt. Vader was probably the most consistent of the bunch. I don't think he had anything I disliked until he locked up w/Hogan @ Uncensored.


"Sting hit the post!!!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> It is infuriating that WCW did not run a Dustin v. Vader feud in 95. Look at the crowd in the incredible 94 match, the interest was there.


Hogan, brother. Meanwhile Dustin lost his job having shit w/Barry Darsow. How could this scenario turn out any worse?



William Murderface said:


> "Sting hit the post!!!"


:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It is infuriating that WCW did not run a Dustin v. Vader feud in 95. Look at the crowd in the incredible 94 match, the interest was there.


Don't think I've seen the one from Saturday Night in '92, but adore the COTC match.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So I'm currently at Bash At The Beach 98 (Haven't started it yet so no spoilers please ) & the whole idea of The Wolfpac has been an utter failure  I remember as a kid that it seemed like the coolest thing ever but it really is just an NWO overkill especially when both NWOs get multiple segments on a "WCW" show more then the actual wrestlers that are representing WCW.

Sting joining The Wolfpac is also one of the dumbest decisions ever :lmao I love how his year of silence and solitude ultimately led to nothing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wolfpac was 4 life, brother.

But goodness, what utter crap. And then what it all leads to come 1999...WCW I loved you but why you failed is plain as day.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Disco Inferno and the Wolfpack :lmao

I think BATB has a great Kidman/Juvi match. Has anyone seen WCW's internet PPV?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love that SS 02 tag match too btw .


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Bryan/Punk/Orton/Sheamus/Christian/RVD MITB 13-****1/4

Great ladder match with all that star power but Bryan really stole the show, that sequence midway through where he goes beast is amazing. One of my fav MITB matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

God. The Wolfpac fpalm

Anytime I watch anything involving the Wolfpac with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall wearing their 2pac style bandanas.....it's just one giant fringe worthy moment after another. I mostly just have to fast forward as I just can't take the shame and humilation of knowing I once that those guys were really cool back in 6th grade.

I was a Stone Cold/Goldberg/Mankind guy, had all of their T shirts, but i definitely had a Wolfpac shirt too. Ugh. What was wrong with me??


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOLFPAC :mark: sick theme


so I got these ppv lined up today :
Finish SS 94
GAB 89

need some other, and some matches to check out


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Skins, you should have listened to me in the chatbox last night, KOTR 1995 and OTE 1998 are MUST SEE PPVS my friend . No but seriously the main event for OTE 1998 is amazing and my 1998 MOTY so wach that.

sigh, if you insist on being ignorant, watch these 

BATB 1992
Vengeance 2003 
Summerslam 2005 
Backlash 2000 
Judgment day 2000


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

unk2


I have seen foley/austin actually, yea phenomenal and have seen vengeance 03. Not a big AE fan but I'll give those a watch


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> WOLFPAC :mark: sick theme
> 
> 
> so I got these ppv lined up today :
> ...


Judgement Day 2001 is really really good. Just about every match is ***1/2+.

For WCW check out SuperBrawl II. Fucking awesome card and the Main Event is one of the best WCW matches ever (Vader/Sting Strap)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

BL 2000 and JD 2000 are both amazing, im not a big fan of the AE as well but these are great. 

HHH/Rock Iron man is :mark: at JD


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Judgement Day 2001 is really really good. Just about every match is ***1/2+.
> 
> For WCW check out SuperBrawl II. Fucking awesome card and the Main Event is one of the best WCW matches ever (Vader/Sting Strap)


Without being pedantic (too late  ), Superbrawl II was Sting/Luger. Superbrawl III was Sting/Vader. But yeah, II is an excellent event.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

In a WWE/WCW/General North American style mood for the first time in a few weeks. YAY. Plus I have the whole weekend free. YAY. Gonna find some things to line up and watch and possibly review some shizz that I've been meaning to do for ages. Weekends like this > most other weekends IMO TBH IMO

edit: Also, does anyone know the date of the match this comes from?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting WWF 2000 PPV review #3 

Looking forward to this one because I want a ***** match to hold up


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Without being pedantic (too late  ), Superbrawl II was Sting/Luger. Superbrawl III was Sting/Vader. But yeah, II is an excellent event.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yes, shallow and pedantic 

I thought the Sting/Vader strap was at SuperBrawl II in 1992? They did the whole White Castle of Fear skit leading up to it. 

Just googled it, yea I'm wrong, nice. The card for SuperBrawl II is way better than III but III has a way better Main Event. This is what happens when you skip around on the Network too much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yes, shallow and pedantic
> 
> I thought the Sting/Vader strap was at SuperBrawl II in 1992? They did the whole White Castle of Fear skit leading up to it.
> 
> Just googled it, yea I'm wrong, nice. The card for SuperBrawl II is way better than III but III has a way better Main Event. This is what happens when you skip around on the Network too much.


I only just realized that it's you Jack.  been posting on my phone and sigs don't show up on the app lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Superbrawl II has a five star match and two really good tag matches. Horrible main event though, as expected from a Luger/Sting pairing. Rude/Steamboat was very disappointing too.

Superbrawl III has one of Foley's most underrated matches. It also has probably the best match that isn't five stars ever. And of course, you should watch the Benoit/Scorpio match. Horrible Muta/Windham match. So disappointing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flux said:


> edit: Also, does anyone know the date of the match this comes from?


ECW 26/05/2009 



Spoiler: my review



Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 26/05/2009

OMG THIS COULD BE THE MOST AWESOME THING EVER.

Fun cat and mouse shit at the start, then Henry just fucking runs over Bourne and he probably could have pinned him there and it would have been a legit finish.

Bourne tries a comeback with some quick kicks... so what does the POWERFUL Henry do? ROUNDHOUSE KICKS BOURNE IN THE HEAD. That'll teach you for kicking him, you little shit!

Some of the most awesomely brutal back breaker submission spots in this match too. Henry just pushing Bourne down onto his knee following a back breaker looked so deadly. Bourne's comebacks with knee strikes and kicks look great every time. 

Finish is great too. Henry LOSES by countout, following some great sequences by Bourne, who was able to make it back into the ring by jumping on Henry's back and diving back into the ring! This was tremendous for the time it got.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Superbrawl II has a five star match and two really good tag matches. Horrible main event though, as expected from a Luger/Sting pairing. Rude/Steamboat was very disappointing too.
> 
> Superbrawl III has one of Foley's most underrated matches. It also has probably the best match that isn't five stars ever. And of course, you should watch the Benoit/Scorpio match. Horrible Muta/Windham match. So disappointing.


Is Arn/Eaton vs The Steiner's your 5-star match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is Arn/Eaton vs The Steiner's your 5-star match?


Is Chavo Guerrero vs. Jacqueline your five-star match from Judgment Day 2004?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is Chavo Guerrero vs. Jacqueline your five-star match from Judgment Day 2004?


You lost me chief. I figured you either loved that tag or the Dustin/Barry vs Austin/Zybysko tag.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Can anyone give me a link to the Shield/Wyatts match and the main event from EC? There was one uploaded from a user on here I think but I can't seem to find it (it had great quality).

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> Can anyone give me a link to the Shield/Wyatts match and the main event from EC? There was one uploaded from a user on here I think but I can't seem to find it (it had great quality).
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Yeah, i did upload it but WWE took it down, gits. :cussin:

There was a DL link in the Multimedia Section though, 'tis where i grabbed it from.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So who all saw Adam Rose on NXT? :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I did :lmao

I was a big fan of the Kruger character and was fairly annoyed when I read they scrapped it, but the debut of Adam Rose was insanely fun :lol Although I have the same worries for him that I do for the likes of Tyler Breeze, that it might not/probably won't translate well outside of the smarky, fun NXT crowd. Oh well. I will enjoy it regardless of whether it gets over on the main show. GIMMICKS. CHARACTERS. FUN. YAY.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Royal Rumble 2000 review 

Including a top 10 match of all time :mark: 

Match #1: Tazz vs Kurt Angle *

I remember this being a hilarious squash, and so I remember it being :mark: with the crowd and all. So apparently this was the debut of Tazz, his WWF run was a bomb it seems, he was kind of broken during this run, but I enjoy his ECW run so its ok. Angle cuts a promo, looks like I'm already fast forwarding :lol. Crowd pop for Tazz is :mark:, Angles is reaction is :lmao too. Strange that they let Tazz finish off Angle's undefeated streak, maybe they had big plans for him? So many Suplexes in this match, they are all :mark: though, in the end Tazz makes Angle pass out, really FUN match, especially since it goes less than 5 minutes, only a bit over 3 minutes to be exact, so they did well for the time given. **1/2 

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #2: Hardy boys vs The Dudleyz *

This match is so :mark: iirc, the first ever tables match in the WWE I’m pretty sure, and they were a lot better when they were limited to just tag matches as they kind of blow now. These teams always had great chemistry and the tables stipulation fit these teams perfectly. This match is amazing, just so many :mark: moments in one match. Sure this isn’t a technical masterpiece but its still a favorite of mine and some of the spots in the match were awesome. The ending was just so awesome because seeing Bubba fall off the Balcony and then Jeff jumping off the balcony on to Devon to end the match was just awesome :mark:. So yeah this held up tremendously and it was something I forgot about when I popped in my DVD of the event, definitely one of the better tables matches. ***3/4 

*CAL SCALE: 4 *

*Match #3: Bikini contest* 

Does this count? I didn’t watch but I’m not gonna count it against the score. N/A

*Match #4: Chris Jericho vs Chyna vs Hardcore Holly* 

Ugh, remember this being horrible, but whatever it takes to get to Foley/HHH is OK, and I remember it being short so it’s not the end of the world. Eh this was fine, nothing too horrible but it really should have been Jericho vs someone else for the title as Chyna and Holly don’t do much in the ring for me, however Jericho carried this to not being a complete DUD. This had some fine spots and I’m glad Jericho won. However having both Chyna and Jericho BOTH being champion at the same time was just stupid. Crowd seemed into this as well, IDK why because the match wasn’t anything too special. So yeah recommend skipping this one but it wasn’t as bad as I remember. **1/4 

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #5: The Acolytes vs the new age outlaws *

The Outlaws promo here is one of my favorite promos of all time, the crowd+ the energy in their voice is just so much :mark: in one promo, literally the definition of being over. However, I have no memory of the match itself though. Wow, this match was REALLY short, pretty disappointing but for the time given it was alright I guess, but they really didn’t get any time to get anything going, 2 minutes is not enough to build a good match, wish this got more time though, as they were building to an OK match at least before the abrupt finish. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #6: HHH vs Cactus Jack 
*
:mark: :mark: :mark: 

Here we go, one of my favorite matches of all time and I had it at the full 5 on the last watch, I assume its going to hold up too, just a perfect match, at least that is what I got out of it on the last watch. This is one of those matches I don’t need to write about during the match as I know it so well that I will probably be able to write 100+ words about it after the watch. Well, this match held up tremendously, the greatest match ever from both these men, I would only put a handful of matches over it in the history of pro wrestling. Everything in this match is entertaining, from the thumbtacks to the piledriver on the table to the amazingness of the Barbed wire bat, simply put this is pure beauty. In all honesty, this should have been the main event of the night, as I’m not a huge fan of the rumble from this show. If anyone out there hasn’t seen this watch it immediately and you’ll notice what I’m talking about, such a great match. Does anyone have this at the same rating? If you do please speak up, this is pro wrestling right here, just perfect. *****

*CAL SCALE: 9 

Match # 7: The Royal Rumble match *

Ugh, remember this being very disappointing, mainly because this is the jobber rumble, only real 2 people who were actually contenders, the Big Show and the Rock.Pretty meh rumble here because like I said there was really no one beides the Big Show and The Rock who really had any chance at all of winning. The beginning of this match was pretty fun, 2 cool danced and Rikishi turning on them was :lmao. But after the first 10 guys the match started to get extremely boring with the exception of BOB BACKLUND making an appearance :lmao. But yeah star power here was horrible and the fans at MSG really seemed to be sitting on their hands waiting for the Rock to come out. Rock came out to a huge pop of course and so did Big Show as everyone knew it was going to come down to those final 2, and to no ones surprise it did. Luckily the finish to this match was pretty great, Rock and Show battled it out for a good bit and Rock somehow escapes and wins. This wasn’t a rumble for the ages; it was the Rock’s rumble. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2

TOTAL CAL SCALE: 17	

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day(20)
2: The Royal Rumble(17)
3: Insurrextion(8.5)
*​


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Flux said:


> I did :lmao
> 
> I was a big fan of the Kruger character and was fairly annoyed when I read they scrapped it, but the debut of Adam Rose was insanely fun :lol Although I have the same worries for him that I do for the likes of Tyler Breeze, that it might not/probably won't translate well outside of the smarky, fun NXT crowd. Oh well. I will enjoy it regardless of whether it gets over on the main show. GIMMICKS. CHARACTERS. FUN. YAY.


Yeah i loved Kruger as well, but I still can't get over the change and seeing him all flamboyant now :lol

I really love Tyler Breeze, but them having a "similar" gimmick kind of worries me because I love the gimmick for both of them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ADAM ROSE AND THE BISEXUAL HOOOOOOO TRAIN + Eugene.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I see that Brye didn't have this on the list of great Benoit PPV matches. Was curious if he just forgot or was it not that good?:

Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio at No Mercy 2002.

I see that Meltzer gave it ****3/4, that's why I'm asking.


Repped you, btw, DoubtGin!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> I see that Brye didn't have this on the list of great Benoit PPV matches. Was curious if he just forgot or was it not that good?:
> 
> Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio at No Mercy 2002.
> 
> I see that Meltzer gave it ****3/4, that's why I'm asking.


It's a classic.

Also don't forget Benoit vs Rock from Fully Loaded.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's an Angle match. Some love it, some don't . I used to have it at ****1/2 and went down to *** on recent watch .


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> It's a classic.
> 
> Also don't forget Benoit vs Rock from Fully Loaded.





DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> It's an Angle match. Some love it, some don't . I used to have it at ****1/2 and went down to *** on recent watch .


Thanks!

As for Rock, yeah, I'd heard they had a good match together. Glad to hear the specifics of where it was.

Benoit's DVD banishment makes things a bit tougher.

Was the WM 16 four way atrocious or something? No one ever talks about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's decent, nothing more. Foley and Show totally didn't need to be there at all.

Rock/Benoit FL is definitely worth checking out :mark:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll be watching WM 16 soon enough for my WWF 2000 PPV project, havent seen it before but from what I have heard its meh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> As for Rock, yeah, I'd heard they had a good match together. Glad to hear the specifics of where it was.


They've had more than one. Another one that I really enjoy is a Champion vs Champion match on Smackdown a week or so before SummerSlam 2002.

xjg7e9


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

WM 16 should have just been Rock/HHH tbhayley

Foley practically impaling himself on a table doesn't exactly help matters either.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 16 for sure should have been just Rock vs HHH, with Rock going over w/o the help of Austin


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This fucking Jake promo :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

"I plant fear, and fear will GROW" :mark: :mark:

Jake was just the best on the mic. Well, no I actually think Foley was the best ever on the mic, but damn Jake is so good. That promo was awesome. I wish they did backstage promos like that more often. There is a serious lack of them in the current product.

Here is a damn good one:







Greatness. This entire interview was greatness.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> I see that Brye didn't have this on the list of great Benoit PPV matches. Was curious if he just forgot or was it not that good?:
> 
> Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio at No Mercy 2002.
> 
> ...


Mediocre blehfest. Not really worth your time.

Watch the Mick Foley promos posted instead. :hayley4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is it wrong that I don't have Arn, Flair, or Dusty in my top ten mic workers list?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only if Eddie Kingston or Terry Funk are in it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mick, Rock, Roddy, Punk, Jericho, Austin, Jake, Vince, Paul, Bobby. Nobody should be removed from that list.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Did a top ten list for Bryan and Punk. One was a hit and the other was a miss. Time to go on the tough route and do a top ten list for John Cena! This one is hard simply because there's so many to choose from. Some that people feel should be on this list won't be on here, and one or two that people feel shouldn't be on this list will be on here. I will use the same formula that I used with my Bryan and Punk lists. Lets get it started!

*10. John Cena vs Edge Tables Ladders and Chairs match Unforgiven 2006* ****
_Kicking off this list is the match that many consider to be Cena's worst case of "Super Cena". Regardless, it was a great match between two guys who were putting an end to a half year long rivalry (and it unfortunately wouldn't be their last). Never the less, it was a perfect way to end it, with both guys using their movesets to create some creative moments in this match, and having a good finish despite referee assistance kind of ruining the purpose of the ladder FU spot. _

*9. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena Summerslam 2013 *****
_I wasn't as impressed by this match as everyone else was, but regardless I can't deny that it was a great match. It seemed like this match itself suffered from the Kurt Angle complex in that both guys seemed to focus a little more on the spot aspect of the match than the storytelling aspect, but even then they still did a great job of telling a story. Cap that off with Bryan beating Cena clean and you've got yourself a memorable ending to a PPV (until Orton came in and fucked it up)._

*8. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena Extreme Rules 2012 *****1/4
_Now I am going to be perfectly honest here. I fucking hate this match, and I think it was nothing more than a typical Cena comeback formulated match and it was a very lazy effort by them. Regardless, despite how much I hate it, the formula they worked with was just perfect in nearly every way. And for that, it gets a spot here. But I feel this is all it deserves in that regard. This is the one people here will probably disagree with me most on, and I can certainly see why._

*7. Shawn Michaels vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs John Cena Fatal Four Way Match Backlash 2007* ****1/4
_Insane wouldn't accurately describe this. Damn good fatal four way match that showcased the great talents of these four competitors. That's all I'm going to say. Go watch this match if you enjoy fatal four way matches, this is how it should be done._

*6. Cm Punk vs John Cena Night of Champions 2012* ****1/2
_In what was another great match during Cm Punk's legendary 434 title reign, we saw both guys play their roles incredibly well, and saw another great match between these two, who have shown just how great they are against each other in the ring. Despite how much they previously battled, they were still able to create some new moments between the two that we can look back on in their matches and put in an outstanding match. Great storytelling, great spots, great pacing, and overall great WWE Championship match._

*5. Shawn Michaels vs John Cena Wrestlemania 23* ****1/2
_A match that is often overlooked by the match that many felt stole this show, Batista vs Undertaker, this was none the less a great way to end out Wrestlemania 23. Both guys looked great, Michaels played his role very well, but Cena also played this thing out very well. Top this off with some very cool spots and a hot crowd for this match up that we never really saw before (I think?), you've got yourself a great ending to a great PPV. This wouldn't be their best match, however._

*4. Cm Punk vs John Cena Raw 2013* ****1/2
_This was a match to determine who would face the Rock at Wrestlemania 29. I can't really say a lot about this other than this match was simply incredible. The story behind it was that Cena was a guy willing to pull out all the stops to make sure he could finally beat Cm Punk, and that's what he did. Hell, even the Hurricanrana spot, despite him not doing it very well, was perfectly placed into the match. Loved some of the things they pulled out in this match, loved the storytelling, the emotion, just everything. Damn good match, especially for one that was on free TV._

*3. Umaga vs John Cena Last Man Standing Royal Rumble 2007* ****3/4
_Without a doubt the surprising match of this list, the story being told here was just outstanding. Everything. From Umaga's manager giving him instructions and telling him to hold off due to the ten count, to most of Cena's offense being via counters against things Umaga attempted, it wasn't repetitive in any way and everything had a purpose. They even had Umaga be the one to eat the table spot, which in most cases would normally happen to the person who wins the match. But in this case, it made sense and it helped make Umaga look incredible. Both men deserve a lot of credit for an incredible display, despite their previous match against each other, which was not only nothing special but actually turned out to be a pretty boring and non inspiring match._

*2. Shawn Michaels vs John Cena Raw 2007* ****3/4
_This was their famous London match that went over an hour long. Matches like these are very rare to have on free TV, and they took full advantage of the time given to them. It's a shame, because in my opinion, this turned out to be better than their Wrestlemania 23 match. Regardless, I can't describe why this match is so great. There's just too much to talk about. Just go and watch the match. 
_
*1. Cm Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011* *****
_Many people criticize this match for being sloppy at times, for having a lot of botched moves. Many people call this match overrated. But it isn't about that. Sometimes botches will happen, that shouldn't take away from the match itself. It's no different in regards to how good the match would have been if those spots weren't botched. Regardless, this was without a doubt in my mind the best match Cena and Punk had against each other, and the undisputed match of the year of 2011. With the story being that this was Punk's last match in the WWE at the time, this match took place in Punk's hometown of Chicago. The hometown emotion was absolutely incredible, and both Punk and Cena took full advantage of this. The way they worked the match, the way they worked the crowd was just unbelievable, something I feel like they are not given enough credit for. Top that off with some great and innovative spots from both guys, outstanding storytelling of a desperate Punk trying to beat a very game Cena, Punk kicking out of two AA's, Cena escaping the GTS and countering it into the STF, all the way to Johnny Ace and Mr McMahon interfering trying to screw Punk, and most importantly a match that went on for 33 minutes, it was a lot of amazing things and incredibly well done stories and moments all cultivated into one to create the first 5 star rated match that WWE had since 1997. A legendary match for a legendary PPV._

What do you guys think? What matches do you think deserve to be on this list? Let your opinions be known! Matches that I considered for this list but didn't quite make the cut were Elimination Chamber match 2014, HHH/Edge/Cena Backlash 2006, Jericho/Christian/Cena Vengeance 2005, Orton/Cena Summerslam 2007, Orton/Cena Bragging Rights 2009, Mysterio/Cena Raw 2011, and Punk/Cena Summerslam 2011.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mick, *Rock*, Roddy, Punk, Jericho, Austin, Jake, *Vince*, Paul, *Bobby*. Nobody should be removed from that list.


Those I bolded need to be removed. JBL, Flair and Funk should be added.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Or opinions have to be met w/compromise. That's actually the only thing that should be added here. 8*D


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

How and why people think Cena/Edge TLC is anything more than a one star match, is beyond me. Trash. Shit. Turd. Umaga/Cena is real deal, though. My clear Cena #1 match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I still like the Cena/Edge TLC. :draper2



HayleySabin said:


> Mediocre blehfest. Not really worth your time.
> 
> Watch the Mick Foley promos posted instead. :hayley4


Didn't you use to pimp out that match? Or has it become _overrated_ to you? 8*D



TheGMofGods said:


> Did a top ten list for Bryan and Punk. One was a hit and the other was a miss. Time to go on the tough route and do a top ten list for John Cena! This one is hard simply because there's so many to choose from. Some that people feel should be on this list won't be on here, and one or two that people feel shouldn't be on this list will be on here. I will use the same formula that I used with my Bryan and Punk lists. Lets get it started!
> 
> *10. John Cena vs Edge Tables Ladders and Chairs match Unforgiven 2006* ****
> _Kicking off this list is the match that many consider to be Cena's worst case of "Super Cena". Regardless, it was a great match between two guys who were putting an end to a half year long rivalry (and it unfortunately wouldn't be their last). Never the less, it was a perfect way to end it, with both guys using their movesets to create some creative moments in this match, and having a good finish despite referee assistance kind of ruining the purpose of the ladder FU spot. _
> ...


Good list, no real complaints. I don't think too highly of the Cena/HBK matches myself, wouldn't have Cena/Punk from RAW so high either. Cena/Umaga placement is good stuff though, love that match. (Y)



TheGMofGods said:


> Those I bolded need to be removed. JBL, Flair and Funk should be added.


Nah, Rock and Vince are two of the best mic workers of all time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

One of Michaels's biggest supporters on this board and I think that raw 07 match is decent at best and cena performance wasnt that good in it,their mania match SMOKES it IMO. Also never loved that fatal four match

top mic workers ? Hard

I know

1) Flair
2) Savage
3) Foley
4) Austin

then it gets tricky


Edit: dont like any edge/cena match btw


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Didn't you use to pimp out that match? Or has it become _overrated_ to you? 8*D


I've never cared for it. You're probably thinking about the good triple threat elimination match from Survivor Series 2002. The Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio series is lousy.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

I just remembered a match that I completely forgot about and that was the Edge/Cena Last Man Standing Match from Backlash in 2009, a match that definitely deserves a place on this list. I'd probably put that match at number 7 and take out the Edge/Cena TLC match, but instead I'll just keep the list the way it is right now. 

And I loved the Umaga/Cena LMS match. And in general I loved Umaga's character. It's a shame wellness violations kept him down, I loved the push they first gave him, having him go through guys like HBK and HHH, his character, his run of dominance, his matches with Cena truly made him a star, but it's unfortunate in that he's one of those guys that you just can't turn face, so we knew that he was going to be nothing more than a heel character. So odds are he was going to never make it far regardless. It's a shame. R.I.P. Umaga.

Oh and I figured out a pretty interesting fact in regards to the Royal Rumble 2007 PPV that I felt I should share with you guys. There were three world title matches on that PPV. The ECW one, the World Heavyweight one and the WWE title one. In those title matches, the three guys who were champions were your typical strong guys who had their traits that stood out. For Bobby Lashley, it was his athleticism, for Batista, it was his tendency to suck at everything he did, and for Cena it was his storytelling. 

But that's not the mind blowing fact. The mind blowing fact is who their opponents were. Lashley's opponent was Test, a guy who unfortunately passed early. And so was Cena's opponent, Umaga. Batista's opponent? Mr Kennedy, a guy who wrestled against Eddie Guerrero in his last match, and also against Umaga in HIS last match. Pretty crazy stuff, eh?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only thing I find crazy is calling Batista bad over Lashley. Or liking Cena vs Edge LMS, but I know I'm in the minority of acknowledging that match as bad.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

In honor of International Women's Day, I watched Ziggler's backstage promo with AJ Lee where he called her sad, weak, pitiful etc and called her trash.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I liked Umaga when they pushed him as a unstoppable beast. Some think they're going to push Rusev in a similar way, by having him unstoppable for many months only to fall to a big face (most likely Cena) and slowly drift into irrelevancy. I hope that doesn't happen because I kinda like Rusev, but his gimmick is going to do him no favors. Foreign monster heels are so outdated. 



HayleySabin said:


> I've never cared for it. You're probably thinking about the good triple threat elimination match from Survivor Series 2002. The Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio series is lousy.


I couldn't remember your thoughts on the match anyway. And I mostly just threw the overrated comment there in reference to your comments in the Renee thread, not sure if you picked up on that. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dames looks or what you see in a rasslin match. Apparently other's opinions on such topics MATTER TO QUESTION IT!

I didn't pick up on your point at first.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, did Umaga ever get chants in reference to his old Jamal character?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not that I can ever recall. Fans didn't seem to be so asinine then as they are now. I could be giving too many folks credit w/that statement.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jamal is not a fun chant. Fans were still pretty asinine. But that's part of wrestling.

What is fun though is this Al Snow/Mick Foley feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well Al Snow & Mick Foley are pretty terrific.

Those Las Vegas segments. Joy.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah thought so. I could only imagine someone like Kane would have been 'buried' by the fans with his past Dentist gimmick if he made his debut in this day and age.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there a BAD steamboat/flair match ? I just finished spring stampede 94, :kobe6


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All signs point to no.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who wants to chant Jamal at Umaga when you could chant OOOO OOOO OOOOMAGA at him?

Not any more obviously :side:. But still.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is however a bad Flair/Windham match. Or rather a very very disappointing one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is? Guessing it happened in the 90's cos I'm drawing a blank .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't recall this either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Beach Blast 1993


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Here I am only remembering the two tag team matches from that event. 

MASTERS OF THE POWERBOMB


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm glad you also forgot about that bad ironman match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just remember the awesome tag and the disappointing Iron Man match.

How Dustin and Rude in 1993 had a BAD fucking match is insane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really want to watch this PPV now. Even the bad stuff. b/c I have to know how it failed. 

Why did Austin vs Dustin fail too in the same year? Oh come on now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I seem to recall a few matches that on paper should have ruled the world but didn't. Windham/Arn I think it was, Windham/Regal, Dustin/Austin, Dustin/Rude... and Flair/Windham too. Must have been bad if I don't even remember it :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I guess this is why I'm left praising WCW 1992, skipping over most of 1993, & jumping onto praising 1994. 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Trying to start going through the WCW PPVs on the Network as I have very little knowledge of much of their history. What would you guys consider to be a good starting point? Just the first PPV they've got or is there a better point to begin? I've become burned out with WWE 2001. Will go back eventually to finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does it start from the beginning? If so, that's actually pretty solid to start. Doesn't hurt starting w/1992 and getting all of the best stuff seen first.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would start with Starrcade 1988. It's a good starting point because the next year is one of the best years a North American promotion ever had in 1989. The show itself is also very good from top to bottom (a common theme in WCW at the time), and the main event is a classic.

There are some more disappointing matches from 1993 in WCW. Most of them were from Windham and Rude. Both guys got long-awaited world title reigns that year, and they both stunk up the joint. The best example for Windham was that Windham/Regal match. Barry seemed to have the New Age Outlaws syndrome in that match, meaning that he did not know whether to play a face or a heel. Rude honestly should have retired by that point. Dude's body looked roughshod. Don't know why Goldy had bad matches though :aries2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It really did seem like Rude was WAYYYYY better during his US Championship phase over his World Champion phase. Shame. :hayley2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you guys are in the mood for something fun and something Foley (which you should always be in), go watch this:






That bowling ball spot is the work of kings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mick, Rock, Roddy, Punk, Jericho, Austin, Jake, Vince, Paul, Bobby. Nobody should be removed from that list.


Remove UC's buddy and replace him with Flair, then your list will be perfect and same as mine. Or maybe not quite, because I recall having somebody else above THE BRAIN.



Oliver-94 said:


> Just out of curiosity, did Umaga ever get chants in reference to his old Jamal character?


No. I only recall seeing one fan sign at ringside that said "Is that you, Jamal?" a few weeks after he had debuted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley vs Snow. Awesome.

Bowling ball gag reminds me of that FUN Las Vegas Street Fight between Snow & Test in 2002. AL SNOW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As if Mitchell Cole couldn't be any worse, I just witnessed him wrongly call "The Worm" as "The Centipede". :ti


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Impossible.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

This Lesnar/HHH WM29 match is fucking awful. Can think of few things flatter.

The way that Lesnar has been wasted in his second run is a travesty. It's unbelievable how you could mess up what should be such a surefire thing. Congrats, Vince.


@ rep & C2D: Thank you! I will check out those matches after this free trial is up. Right now I'm focused on PPV matches, due to the free trial. I do plan on ordering the network, but I'm gonna wait until after the 21st to do so, so that I can get all of the PPVs through NOC '14.

So yeah, I'll get back to tv matches after this trial is up.


Quick thoughts about some random stuff that I've watched:

*Benoit/Angle vs. Mysterio/Edge at No Mercy '02* - Really fun match. Don't know if I'd call it a truly great all-time match or anything, mainly because it didn't really pick up for me until the end, but it was just fun. I have to say, Angle has the smoothest looking transitions ever. When he weaves in and out of ankle locks and reversals and shit, it's so quick and crisp. It really puts ALL of his opponents to shame, when you see them doing the same type of things, with the exception of Benoit.

Also, some of the nearfalls got me, as I had no idea who would win that match, so that was great. I can see how those watching it live would view it incredibly favorably.

Glad I watched.


*Rock vs. Triple H vs. Big Show vs. Foley at WM 16* - I like how they ganged up on Big Show. It was an enjoyable match, but nothing that particularly stands out either. I liked the aspect of each McMahon being in a separate corner, but then I found the ending stuff anti-climatic. Mainly 'cause I didn't know what the fuck was going on with Shane/Vince, which was a hallmark of that era. If you're not watching weekly, you're lost. Oh well.

*Undertaker vs. Diesel at WM 12* - Pretty good match. Like how it started off as a slugfest, and it was cool to see the contrast of Taker flying around while Diesel stayed grounded. Honestly thought Diesel stood out more to me, which is shocking for me to say, 'cause I've never had the feeling ever watching any of his matches.

*Undertaker vs. Ric Flair at WM18* - Really liked this. Flair's weird, 'cause when I really like his more random matches, I can never properly articulate why. Maybe someone smart can explain why this one was good. Funnyfaces? I quite liked Taker as a heel in this.


Why did Heyman turn on Brock? Seems like some stupid shit they did just for the sake of doing it. Those two belong together.

How was that Biker Chain match between Taker and Lesnar? I have a horrible feeling about it for some reason, lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle's transitions are easy when they don't go w/the rest of the match. :hayden3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Any of you guys big on SMW? I just watched this pretty cool promo by the Gangstas and I want some more stuff. All I've watched from SMW is Jake/DWB and a couple Thrillseekers matches.







Flattering to be referred to as intellect from LilOlMe. I'm still kinda unclear as to what constitutes as a "random" Flair match. I'd say that's a trademark sign of a wrestler with tons of in-ring charisma though. Flair's presence is enough to make a random match interesting. Specifically with the Taker match, it's a textbook example of how well Flair can play the old grizzled veteran that is trying to relive his last moment of glory. He's wrestling's most iconic heel, but when Flair goes through his tropes and dirty tricks, us fans have no choice but to love it. He's also great at showing desperation in his facial expressions. So many other things that make Flair/Taker awesome, but from Flair's side, it all comes down to how well he can make us sympathize with him.

I remember watching the Biker Chain match when it first aired with my friends in fifth grade. We all thought it was really boring. Like VERY boring. I've stayed away from that match ever since. Also didn't help that I was a gigantic Taker mark and hated Lesnar for killing all of my favorite babyfaces (Benoit, Malenko, Taker, Angle). Thank goodness for Eddie. And thank goodness for Paul Heyman's Smackdown.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Angle's transitions are easy when they don't go w/the rest of the match. :hayden3


Knew that was coming!!! But I'm talking about the transitions that make sense. Like drop toe holds to quickly get out of potential submissions, rolls up, then transitions right into or out of ankle locks out of that, etc.

I'm about to watch HHH/Orton at WM for the first time. Wish me luck.  Want to see if it rivals the flatness of the first half of Lesnar/HHH. Somehow that match got worse to me, even after it picked up with the crowd getting into it. Such a disappointment, that.

I did like the "Brock almost tapping" moments, though. lol at the ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FF, SMW is awesome. The last remaining elements of the territories. but lol New Jack. Piece of shit.



LilOlMe said:


> Knew that was coming!!! But I'm talking about the transitions that make sense. Like drop toe holds to quickly get out of potential submissions, rolls up, then transitions right into or out of ankle locks out of that, etc.
> 
> I'm about to watch HHH/Orton at WM for the first time. Wish me luck.  Want to see if it rivals the flatness of the first half of Lesnar/HHH. Somehow that match got worse to me, even after it picked up with the crowd getting into it. Such a disappointment, that.
> 
> I did like the "Brock almost tapping" moments, though. lol at the ending.


I'm normally anti-Angle on a lot of aspects pardon the exceptions. It's weird how i'm so like/dislike w/an individual like Angle.

Oh goodness. HHH vs Orton. It's not worth the ride, pal. haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

New Jack is a terrific promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck 'em.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

New Jack may be a piece of shit, but so are four of my six favorite wrestlers. Extra points for anyone that guesses who they are.

Finished with 1999 and probably gonna go review it in the morning. Now for some SMW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But he's not the good kind. That's why he _really_ sucks.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I really need to watch Bash At The Beach 98 tomorrow, what do you say bro? :side:


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

The reason Im such a big mark of New Jack is his promo work. I never gave a shit about his wrestling ability. When I was a kid watching ECW he came off as a legitimate fucking badass (cause he is) and I loved it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> New Jack may be a piece of shit, but so are four of my six favorite wrestlers. Extra points for anyone that guesses who they are.
> 
> Finished with 1999 and probably gonna go review it in the morning. Now for some SMW.


Your request Sir:

*Curt Hennig vs Nick Bockwinkle (AWA 1986 - I hour Championship Match)*

'From the Official WWE Mr.Perfect DVD'

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...6-i-hour-championship-match.html#post31191234


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2002*

ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT YOUR FATE?

And our fate is apparently having the PPV open with... and in ring segment. Because they don't have enough time on Raw and SD every week to talk...

So Austin comes out and tells us he's not gonna take up much time because this show isn't about him, it's about the matches. Yet he took the time to come out to the ring to tell us... he's watching the show in a skybox. I see why that was needed...


*John Cena & The FBI Vs Chris Benoit, Rhyno & Spanky*

:lmao Cena on the first match of the night. The fuck was the last time we saw that on a PPV? Liked his promo though, plenty of MAFIA references.

:lmao Cena getting beat up by Spanky. I miss the FBI, wish they'd done more with them. A full blown MAFIA group in wrestling should be the most awesome thing ever, but they always end up turning them into a joke (WCW did it, then WWE did it). Remember their WCW theme? A knock off of the Godfather theme, and it was awesome :mark:. Also liked the FBI's WWE theme... but not the one from this event. Not sure when they got it but it was awesome.

Oh man, Palumbo with a big ass cigar in his mouth while beating down Spanky early on is :mark:.

HOT TAG TO BENOIT~! Benoit fucking murdering bitches. Uhhhh, poor phrasing . GORE! GORE! GORE TO NUNZIO (who isn't in the match)!!!

Match has quickly turned into a crazy all out MAFIA WAR.

KISS OF DEATH TO SPANKY, and he gets pinned while Benoit is busy applying the Crossface to Cena and Rhyno is... laying around or something.

Damn, this was SHORT, but awesomely fun. Spanky bleeding below the eye added to it too right at the end.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Austin in his skybox, Bischoff shows up and wonders what's going on. The skybox is for both of them. So they decide to watch the show together.


*Test & Scott Steiner Vs La Resistance*

:lmao no chance in fucking HELL.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Gegory Helms and Mr America backstage accusing each other of being someone else. Nah, I don't buy it 8*D.

EDDIE GUERRERO :mark:. Revealing his new tag partner while Chavo is... I don't care, Chavo ain't around and that's awesome. Even more awesome that TAJIRI is his new partner :mark:.


*Team Angle Vs Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri - WWE Tag Team Championship Ladder match*

Chavo apparently tore his bicept during the tour of England. Hmmmm... I was at a show during that very tour... YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING :side:.

Sweet jebus Eddie nearly kills himself running into a ladder right at the start of the match lol! And the ladder falls down and almost levels a fan!!!

THE FUCK WAS THAT? :lmao Not really that funny, Tajiri nearly killed himself with a botched... something over the ropes, then Eddie goes for a plancha and... uhhh... Shelton just kinda ignores him and Eddie looks hurt too.

:mark: Ladder pointed at Charlie's balls... Eddie and Tajiri dropkick one side of the ladder each. SQUASH~!

Hi-Lo to Hass who is in a ladder sandwhich. Mmmmmm... ladder sandwhich.

POWER SLAM INTO THE LADDER. Eddie looks like he's dead.

HOLY FUCK :mark:. Team Angle doing their double team move using ladders :mark:. Did they name the move? Because I can't be fucked describing it lol.

TAJIRI KICKS :mark:.

Oh man that monkey flip spot :lmao. Awesome.

:lmao Shelton is basically feeling up Eddie's ass while trying to prevent him from climbing the ladder. Perve. Tajiri shoots his green mist in his eyes as punishment .

NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! EDDIE AND TAJIRI WIN!!!

This is a fuck load of fun. I understand why it's kind of a forgotten ladder match that never really gets brought up though. It's fun but nothing special. Only really one unique spot and some of the match is all over the place but that could work for the match with the story being that Team Angle are PURE WRASSLERS and not sure how to have a ladder match.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


More Austin and Bischoff stuff. Austin seems to be making Eric eat crappy food and drink beer.

Terri's tits are interviewing Jericho. PIPER~! They mock each other. Ha. Fun stuff tbh.


*Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Booker T Vs Val Venis Vs Goldust Vs Lance Storm Vs RVD Vs Kane Vs Test - Intercontinental Championship Battle Royal*

Pat Patterson coming out to Mae Young's theme song :lmao. He gets to present the winner with the belt.

VAL VENIS RETURN :mark:. He got fired by Bischoff after being Chief Morley for a while. Austin hired him back as Val.

:lmao at terrible Booker T entrance dub. As if his normal one wasn't bad enough. So this match features all former IC champs... except for Booker T.

Storm goes first, followed by Kane after everyone gangs up on him. Kane doesn't give a fuck and comes back in anyway, destroying everyone just for the hell of it.

Test, Val and RVD all get chokeslammed and the remaining superstars eliminate them with ease! Final four are Booker T & Goldust and Christian & Jericho :mark:. Mini tag match here!

DOUBLE SHATTERED DREAMS~!

SPINAROONIE~! Goldust tries to eliminate Booker right after, but gets it turned around on him . I want Goldust to be champ .

Normally when this sort of thing happens (2 heels working over a babyface) in multiman matches, it can get real fucking dull. Here it doesn't, which is like, yey for me. Christian and Jericho have great chemistry together which helps.

:lmao Christian shoves Jericho over the ropes during a Lionsault attempt. Awesome elimination!!!

Great little finishing stretch to this one. The ONE referee watching over the battle royal ( :lmao ) gets knocked out, and Christian gets eliminated! Booker's music plays, Patterson goes to present the title to him, but Christian decks him! Lays out Booker, throws him over the ropes while the ref recovers and CHRISTIAN wins!!! Ha! Take THAT, Booker T!!!

Fun match. They got rid of the bulk of people and left us with a tag situation, and from there it was really good. Christian winning over Booker makes me happy too .

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


HALF NAKED TORRIE FAP FAP AND SABLE FAP FAP. OIL~!


*Torrie Wilson Vs Sable - Bikini Contest*

FAP. TIMES INFINITY.

A million stars. Kinda.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mr America Vs Roddy Piper*

:lmao absolutely fucking NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Triple H Vs Kevin Nash - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Yey HBK and Flair at ringside just like Insurrextion. Hopefully they brawl too so this doesn't suck too bad .

Dammit, they DO brawl, but are sent right to the back . So we are left with HHH and Nash.

BIG BOOT. ELBOW. BACK BODY DROP. SIDE SLAM. KNEE TO THE GUT. That's Nash's shit out of the way...

Terrible pu... wait, what? HHH is actually... hitting decent punches. The fuck happened to him? And what the FUCK is this? Nash is actually PUNCHING instead of elbowing!!!

:lmao at Hebner dragging NASH off of HHH with his hair. SUPER HEBNER!!!

:lmao so much for super Hebner, he just got mauled by HHH.

Nash no sells a punch, so HHH kicks him in the balls :lmao.

Pedigree. Continue brawling. Sledgehammer to Earl to get himself DQ'd.

Powerbomb.

Powerbomb through the announce table.

Urgh.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Bischoff throws up.


*Trish Stratus Vs Jacqueline Vs Victoria Vs Jazz - Women's Championship*

Ha.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship Stretcher Match*

:mark: can't wait to watch this one again!!!

17 years since the last stretcher match in the WWE. Why? Because the first one was so fucking awful :lmao.

Lesnar wasting NO FUCKING TIME here, swinging the stretcher with all his power right onto the back of Show. Despite the fact the stretcher isn't made out of the most solid material, that just HAS to hurt.

Speaking of hurting... SHOW swinging that stretcher has to hurt even more. Ouch!!!

CHOKESLAM!!! I miss Big Show's old Chokeslams. He got some real fucking height on them and slammed them down with FORCE. Not like these days where they look like shit.

LEG DROP~! Lesnar bouncing to sell it looked amazing. Lesnar goes on a stretcher, but fights Show and gets a fucking clothesline, knocking him backwards off the stretcher and over the line!!! Man, I love Lesnar bouncing around. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for at their RR match, but we all know how that turned out .

TUG OF WAR WITH THE STRETCHER~! Show wins . So how does he celebrate? DESTROYS THE STRETCHER! Because... uhhhh... he didn't like that one. He takes the padding from it and places it on another one :lmao.

Big Show knocked off the apron right onto a stretcher!!! But he bounces off and lands hard on the floor. Poor Lesnar has to try and pick the giant up off the floor and onto a stretcher. GOOD LUCK.

Apparently Lesnar decides it's too much to handle and fucks off. Show wins via forfit? 

REY MYSTERIO'S MUSIC~! WHAT? Lesnar disappears and out comes Rey? LESNAR IS REY MYSTERIO!!!

:lmao Rey comes out for revenge and gets killed.

LESNAR HAS A FORKLIFT~! Nearly brought down the entire JD set lol.

DIVE OFF THE FORKLIFT~!

SUPLEX TO BIG SHOW~!

F-5 TO BIG SHOW~!

Lesnar rolls the giant onto a stretcher that's placed on the forklift, and over the line he goes! Lesnar retains!!!

Well, 17 years earlier a god awful stretcher match took place. At this event, we get a fucking GOOD stretcher match!!! Watching these 2 beat the shit out of each other is always :mark:.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy shitsnacks, that's one of the lowest ratings I've seen for Lesnar/Show. I always thought it was one of Lesnar's best matches tbh. Forklift is fantastic, although imagine if Lesnar picked Show up on his shoulders, paraded around the ring, did some squats and then hopscotched past the line. That would have been awesome, and Lesnar could have done it because... Well it's Lesnar.

I digress. 

Still a low rating that upsets me. Torrie + Sable was a *** affair at least imo. Opening six man and the battle royal sound fun as hell though. They need a rewatch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Isn't that one of the better 03 ppvs? :lmao

Gonna try and get started on WM 16 today

Edit: Yeah I have Lesnar/Show at ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sable/Torrie gets a FAP rating of ***** but it was a bikini contest and technically shouldn't have gotten anything, so * was generous .

Lesnar/Show is really good but eh, don't get the **** kinda love for it. 

No idea if JD is considered one of the better 03 PPV's or not. On paper it doesn't look like it and on a watch it definitely wasn't . WM, Vengeance, SS and NM are the "big 4" for the year from what I remember. WM and SS certainly have lived up to that so far, and I doubt Vengeance or NM will suck when I get around to them too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Isn't SVS good as well? I remember the two tag matches being fun


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've never been a big fan of SVS. SD tag is decent, Raw tag is good but vastly overrated, and everything else on the show from what I remember is pretty terrible.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I've only seen the tag matches, but I dont think Goldberg and HHH ever had a good match so I doubt that is worth a watch


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Not to be "that guy" Cal but you wrote that that was JD 2002, when it's really 2003. I'm not sure if you just copy and pasted and put it on your website. If so, might want to fix it so you're website continues to be the bastion of professionalism that it currently is 

Anyway, I really loved the Show/Lesnar Stretcher match too, it got ***3/4 from me on last watch. Getting hit with that thing must have hurt like shit, they were swinging for the fence every time.

Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle ladder is rather good too, obviously not anywhere near as good as the 2 tags they had on SD. You should definitely rewatch those when you get a moment.

Great Review sir (Y)

Funnyfaces- if it's not the 2 tag matches or Pillman/Liger for your 5 star match at SB II, I give up. I can't imagine any other matches but those 3 warranting such a rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lucky I've only just finished posting my 2001 Ramblings on my site, so 03 stuff won't be on for a while .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Why don't you just put it up at the same time?

Watched Eddie vs JBL again, fucking amazing stuff :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Torrie/Sable not getting ****************************************************************** stars is absurd, Cal :side:

Also surprised at the rating for Lesnar/Show, which I personally have at ****.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Because I only put 1 ramble on my site weekly, to prevent the site getting spammed with non stop written reviews. When I was doing my weekly vid it would have gotten buried by reviews otherwise. So I've been adding one every Sunday to the site, with SVS 01 being the last 01 PPV added today. 2002 starts next week. Plus, it leaves me with plenty of time to have a nice backlog of reviews to post rather than putting it off until Sunday and trying to sit through a terrible event in order to get it online that day .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle ladder is rather good too, obviously not anywhere near as good as the 2 tags they had on SD. You should definitely rewatch those when you get a moment.


What are the dates of those two?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SMITTY said:


> I'm pretty sure I've only seen the tag matches, but I dont think Goldberg and HHH ever had a good match so I doubt that is worth a watch


You would be correct about Goldberg/Triple H, the Unforgiven match sucks & the Survivor Series match is ok & then the Armageddon 3 way is just bowling shoe ugly :jr


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

May 22nd 2003
May 29th 2003
July 3rd 2003

All the dates for Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT on SD.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Flattering to be referred to as intellect from LilOlMe. I'm still kinda unclear as to what constitutes as a "random" Flair match. I'd say that's a trademark sign of a wrestler with tons of in-ring charisma though. Flair's presence is enough to make a random match interesting. Specifically with the Taker match, it's a textbook example of how well Flair can play the old grizzled veteran that is trying to relive his last moment of glory. He's wrestling's most iconic heel, but when Flair goes through his tropes and dirty tricks, us fans have no choice but to love it. He's also great at showing desperation in his facial expressions. So many other things that make Flair/Taker awesome, but from Flair's side, it all comes down to how well he can make us sympathize with him.
> 
> I remember watching the Biker Chain match when it first aired with my friends in fifth grade. We all thought it was really boring. Like VERY boring. I've stayed away from that match ever since. Also didn't help that I was a gigantic Taker mark and hated Lesnar for killing all of my favorite babyfaces (Benoit, Malenko, Taker, Angle). Thank goodness for Eddie. And thank goodness for Paul Heyman's Smackdown.


When I say "random match", I mean a match that's not usually mentioned when people talk about a wrestler's matches. I know a lot of people here like it, but I guess since Ric has so many matches that are considered to be classics, matches like that don't really come up as much.

That was a good description. That's how I felt about Flair in the cage match with Kerry Von Erich, even though Flair was much younger back then. 

Will probably check out the Biker Chain match to see what I think.




HayleySabin said:


> Oh goodness. HHH vs Orton. It's not worth the ride, pal. haha.


LOL, the video kept freezing after I rewound to try to watch that quick RKO again. So I never did get to watch it. Maybe it's the universe's way of trying to do the right thing by me, lol. I did like the way it started with the stare downs and everything. Shame they apparently approached the match all wrong after that (including that stupid rule).


To those who don't have the network: what I mentioned is the one big negative to me. Rewinding and fast forwarding is a bitch, to the point where I'm usually too afraid to even bother to try it. It'll usually freeze a bit and take long. That's if you're lucky. If you're unlucky it'll keep pausing from that point on.

Btw, HayleySabin, I hope you know that when I said "glad I watched", that wasn't 'cause of your post. Reading it again, I could see how it could come across that way after your post, but I didn't even see your post until after I had already watched that match (I went to watch it after C2D's post). I said "glad I watched" cause I made some comments like it wasn't an all-time great, but I still enjoyed it anyway. Just wanted to make sure that was clear.





Flux said:


> Holy shitsnacks, that's one of the lowest ratings I've seen for Lesnar/Show. I always thought it was one of Lesnar's best matches tbh. Forklift is fantastic, although imagine if Lesnar picked Show up on his shoulders, paraded around the ring, did some squats and then hopscotched past the line. That would have been awesome, and Lesnar could have done it because... Well it's Lesnar.


Yeah, that's actually why I think that Cal's rating is accurate. Mine might even be *** 1/4. It was fun, but I guess I had much higher hopes, based on how positive people were toward that match. I imagined exactly what you said, so when I didn't see Brock beasting, it was a disappointment to me. When he flew off the forklift, that was pretty amazing, though.



Cal, was that Triple H/Diesel match the HIAC match? I didn't read the actual review, because I don't like to be spoiled when I watch things (what I do is go back and read the reviews after I watch). 

If not, how would you rate the HIAC match? Didn't they have a hammer on a ladder match too? lol. How was that?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> May 22nd 2003
> May 29th 2003
> July 3rd 2003
> 
> All the dates for Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT on SD.


Why, thankyou.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea Zep those are great, 5/22/03 is my favorite one out of those


Welp, back to the network (wcw)


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Yea Zep those are great, 5/22/03 is my favorite one out of those
> 
> 
> Welp, back to the network (wcw)


Hey Skins I'm curious who that chick is you repped me with


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lilolme: I have to network , I got it the day it launched. The only time I've had he problem you are describing was the first 2 days it went live. Since then, glitch free and I can skip aroun videos with no problem at all. It even has those convenient bullet points to show where the matches start. Maybe it's something with your browser or computer? Switching to IE from Chrome made it run twice as good for me.

Just watched Edge/Cena LMS BL2009. Wow. How can anyone think this is an all time great match? This match spammed the 10 count worse than any LMS match I've ever seen. It's just "Cena irish whips Edge into steps, 10 count, Edge whips Cena into steps, 10 count, Cena dives through ropes, 10 count, Edge scratches his nuts, 10 count". Not good at all. Plus the finish was just so contrived and absurd. Yea, an explosion really happened with John Cena inside a light. Give me a break. The Umaga and Batista LMS blow this one completely out of the water.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Hey Skins I'm curious who that chick is you repped me with


:lol:lol you are the 2nd person to ask me, does she really look that much different w/ Black hair ?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lilolme: I have to network , I got it the day it launched. The only time I've had he problem you are describing was the first 2 days it went live. Since then, glitch free and I can skip aroun videos with no problem at all. It even has those convenient bullet points to show where the matches start. Maybe it's something with your browser or computer? Switching to IE from Chrome made it run twice as good for me.


The thing is, it works smoothly for me other than that, so I don't think it's my computer or browser (plus, I never have this problem with any other video service). This is a pretty common complaint from what I've seen, so I don't think it's really a glitch. I think it's just the way that it was created. Rewinding on that is not as easy as something like Youtube, because you probably can't rewind for less than 30 seconds on the WWE network, right? For you, do you notice that any time you move the marker, it's going to jump at least about 30 seconds? It's not like Youtube where you can click and hold it/drag it with your mouse, so that it works super quickly.

As for the markers that is convenient, but it also brings up my other complaint. They spoil shit right in the markers. Totally annoying! Same applies to searches. I've seen many others complain about this, so hopefully people are also dropping them a line to let them know that this is annoying. Unfortunately I don't see this changing, as I imagine that implementing in the markers was something that took a lot of time. I dunno.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LilOlMe said:


> Cal, was that Triple H/Diesel match the HIAC match? I didn't read the actual review, because I don't like to be spoiled when I watch things (what I do is go back and read the reviews after I watch).
> 
> If not, how would you rate the HIAC match? Didn't they have a hammer on a ladder match too? lol. How was that?


Nah, the HIAC match is from Bad Blood, yet to go through that event yet. Last time I saw it I gave it around ***1/4 though, always kinda liked it. Shall see if it holds up.

Never watched their ladder match from 2011. Fuck anything from HHH in 2011 onwards minus Taker matches and that 1 Lesnar match, and fuck Nash from anything after like 96 when he left for WCW .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh Good lord, I hate the marker (bar) at the bottom of the scene on the network, I wish they just went the netflix route w/ it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> :lol:lol you are the 2nd person to ask me, does she really look that much different w/ Black hair ?


Yes she does  & the really ironic part is I got a photo of with the red hair right below yours and I still didn't notice :lmao


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Nah, the HIAC match is from Bad Blood, yet to go through that event yet. Last time I saw it I gave it around ***1/4 though, always kinda liked it. Shall see if it holds up.
> 
> Never watched their ladder match from 2011. Fuck anything from HHH in 2011 onwards minus Taker matches and that 1 Lesnar match, and fuck Nash from anything after like 96 when he left for WCW .


Thanks! I am going to check out the HIAC match, 'cause I have that on DVD. Actually, I have the ladder match too. 

What's the Lesnar match that you like? I thought SS was solid, and I quite liked the cage match surprisingly, but I thought WM was atrocious. Watch you be the opposite.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lilolme: I have to network , I got it the day it launched. The only time I've had he problem you are describing was the first 2 days it went live. Since then, glitch free and I can skip aroun videos with no problem at all. It even has those convenient bullet points to show where the matches start. Maybe it's something with your browser or computer? Switching to IE from Chrome made it run twice as good for me.
> 
> Just watched Edge/Cena LMS BL2009. Wow. How can anyone think this is an all time great match? This match spammed the 10 count worse than any LMS match I've ever seen. It's just "Cena irish whips Edge into steps, 10 count, Edge whips Cena into steps, 10 count, Cena dives through ropes, 10 count, Edge scratches his nuts, 10 count". Not good at all. Plus the finish was just so contrived and absurd. Yea, an explosion really happened with John Cena inside a light. Give me a break. The Umaga and Batista LMS blow this one completely out of the water.


SPOTZ. And SPOTZ. And SPOTZ. That's why it is a great match 8*D

Nonsense aside, it did feature some of the most ridiculous (on the literal term of the word) spots ever. Asides from the aforementioned spotlight "explosion", why the fuck did Cena have to AA Edge into the fucking CROWD? That's not even excusable as an "act of desperation" as far as I'm concerned, that's just asking for a lawsuit. It really did abuse of the count spots too.

However, I don't really want to give it a terrible rating or anything because it achieves to be fun. Hey, there are a lot of bad matches who aren't fun either, so there's that for this. Then again, who am I to talk since I really enjoyed their TLC match


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm super jealous of all you lucky bastards with your WWE Network.

I'd be watching a shit load of WCW in great quality :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck EVERYTHING HHH did from 2011 onwards besides the Mania matches with Taker, the entire Brock Lesnar series, the CM Punk NOC match, and somehow carrying Kevin Nash to a damn good match with a retarded gimmick in two thousand fucking eleven 8*D.

HHH/Nash in the cell is really, really good. Foley is thrown in there too and manages to make things awesome-er due to Foley being BEAST and whatnot. HHH bumps very well for Nash's offense and does an overall nice job of selling Nash's shitty face offense as per usual. Speaking of HHH, I've been watching his 2002 lately complete with promos and everything and I can't believe there's a HHH-Taker match that I didn't know about from RAW that year. If anybody has seen it (I think it's from the night after Summerslam 2002), let me know how it is.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Evan Stays TRIPPY said:


> Fuck EVERYTHING HHH did from 2011 onwards besides the Mania matches with Taker, the entire Brock Lesnar series, the CM Punk NOC match, and somehow carrying Kevin Nash to a damn good match with a retarded gimmick in two thousand fucking eleven 8*D.
> 
> HHH/Nash in the cell is really, really good. Foley is thrown in there too and manages to make things awesome-er due to Foley being BEAST and whatnot. HHH bumps very well for Nash's offense and does an overall nice job of selling Nash's shitty face offense as per usual. Speaking of HHH, I've been watching his 2002 lately complete with promos and everything and I can't believe there's a HHH-Taker match that I didn't know about from RAW that year. If anybody has seen it (I think it's from the night after Summerslam 2002), let me know how it is.


HIAC with Nash & vs Booker T at WM were Triple H's only good matches that year (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't forget the INCREDIBLE HHH/Punk vs Awesome Truth tag, and the series with Curtis Axel :cool2

William, you forgetting his Raw matches vs Flair (May) and HBK (December). HHH's Reign Of Doom did have its gems after all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I'm super jealous of all you lucky bastards with your WWE Network.
> 
> I'd be watching a shit load of WCW in great quality :mark:


Get the free trial bro, its a week long. Thats what I'm using, will to try it out. Will probably permanently buy the network around mania, they have to fix this bar though


Been watching wcw and 80's Flair :kobe6


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS is great, others are shite.

Gonna go dig out my SD 03 discs and get those Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT matches ready.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SKINS said:


> Get the free trial bro, its a week long. Thats what I'm using, will to try it out. Will probably permanently buy the network around mania, they have to fix this bar though
> 
> 
> Been watching wcw and 80's Flair :kobe6


Didn't the free trial period already end?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm still sticking by my statement that Vince McMahon had a better 2003 than everyone on the RAW roster.

I don't remember writing Malenko in that list of faces that Lesnar brutalized, but that would have been awesome.



> Just watched Edge/Cena LMS BL2009. Wow. How can anyone think this is an all time great match? This match spammed the 10 count worse than any LMS match I've ever seen. It's just "Cena irish whips Edge into steps, 10 count, Edge whips Cena into steps, 10 count, Cena dives through ropes, 10 count, Edge scratches his nuts, 10 count". Not good at all. Plus the finish was just so contrived and absurd. Yea, an explosion really happened with John Cena inside a light. Give me a break. The Umaga and Batista LMS blow this one completely out of the water.


For as talented as John Cena is (and he is very talented), this is one of many flaws with him. I don't know what happened, but for some reason, John Cena doesn't seem to understand how to wrestle gimmick matches. If anything, he's actually gotten worse over time. It almost feels like he wants to create a forced epic every time, either by doing spots in TLC matches, spamming nine counts in last man standing matches, and doing dumb shit in ambulance matches and whatnot. Now he obviously has his moments (Lesnar, Umaga), but Cena normally doesn't want to play off his strengths as a babyface in gimmick matches, and instead tries to be Triple H. Even the Batista LMS match is guilty of those same annoying LMS tropes.

Thanks Zep for the Hennig/Bockwinkle match. Always wanted to watch Hennig's AWA work. Or really anyone who was a midcarder in the Golden Era that had storied territory careers. Shame to see Vince turn these territory legends into jokes for his circus act.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm still sticking by my statement that Vince McMahon had a better 2003 than everyone on the RAW roster.
> 
> I don't remember writing Malenko in that list of faces that Lesnar brutalized, but that would have been awesome.
> 
> ...



Eh, you have a point I guess. Cena has some GREAT gimmick matches (LMS with Umaga, Batista) and some really good ones (I Quit with JBL) but he also has a lot of trash (LMS with Edge, TLC with Edge, I Quit with Batista, TLC with Orton, etc). Honestly to me he almost seems to be emulating HBK too much in the matches, everything gets so over acted and everything is just so "OMG EPIC STORYTELLING LOLZ", you know what I mean? He even shakes and makes similar expressions to HBK when he's fighting back after taking a beat down.

BTW you never answered my question dude. If your 5 star match at SB 2 isn't any of the 3 I mentioned (2 tags, Liger/Pillman) then what in the world is it? You said I'll feel really dumb for not thinking of it. As far as I remember the matches of note on that card were the 3 I just listed, Rude/Steamboat which was pretty good but also disappointing, Cactus Jack/Ron Simmons which is good but nowhere near 5 stars, and Luger/Sting which sucked.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Didn't the free trial period already end?


What's wrong with 9.99 a month?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What makes you think it wasn't Pillman/Liger? That match is the greatest cruiserweight match ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie/Rey says hi and pisses all over Pillman/Liger .


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Didn't the free trial period already end?


It's still going on right now. Don't know when it'll end, so you might want to jump on it soon. Though I regret jumping on it as soon as I did. I didn't have time to watch until the weekend, but I also didn't want it to pass me by.

Btw, regarding the rewinding conversation, there is a button toward the left that says "10" with a little circle arrow. By pressing that, it'll automatically rewind 10 seconds. It still works too laggy, IMO, but oh well.


Just finished HHH/Orton at WM. Yeah, that was flat and the wrong approach. Also seemed to lack coherence. Ok, they hit their finishers in the first minute. What was the point of that? It'd make sense if they wanted to show that they both could make a statement that they both could get things done quickly. But then it went absolutely nowhere.

The only parts I liked were Orton finding the sledgehammer and then H with the punt OUTTANOWHERE. But then lol at the ending. You could tell the audience was like "that's it?" Barely a reaction, which made the whole fireworks display and HHH posing even funnier.

Glad I finally got to see that. : I am, though, because I was curious.


I'm gonna watch Jericho/HHH LMS & Rock/Benoit FL today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What makes you think it wasn't Pillman/Liger? That match is the greatest cruiserweight match ever.



I GUESSED THAT AND YOU SAID IT WASNT IT YOU KNOB. I said it's either the Eaton/Arn tag or the opener and you responded with something about Chavo implying that I was wrong. Lol that match is tits, I don't know about the full 5 but definitely ****1/2+. And Cal is right, for WCW Light-Heavy/Cruiserweight matches, Eddie/Rey HH 1997 is the gold standard. There are A LOT of other really really great ones like that Pillman match and Eddie/Jericho FB, but HH is just the embodiment of everything that the Cruiserweight style is supposed to be. Plus Eddie, a guy who notoriously was NEVER satisfied with his matches said that's the only one he can sit back and just think "Fuck, that was GOOD" when he watches it.

Edit- I just re-read my post and realized I totally didn't include "or the opener" with my initial guess. Fuck :side:

Gonna watch Flair/Steamboat ChiTown Rumble now. Only match out of the 4 PPV encounters they had between 89-94 that I haven't seen recently. I saw an interview a few months ago where the guy asked Flair what his best match ever with Ricky was and he responded without hesitating "The first one in Chicago". Don't remember it being better than New Orleans 2/3 Falls but we shall see!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Malenko/Dragon at Starrcade 96 and Mysterio/Psychosis at BatB 96 also deserve mention for best cruiserweight matches ever. But something about Liger/Pillman. Oh man, those two set the standard.

This Hennig/Bockwinkel match is spectacular. That piledriver tradeoff. Arm for a leg. Hennig's selling. Bockwinkel's dropkick. Why can't :axel be like this?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Sono Shion said:


> What's wrong with 9.99 a month?


There is nothing wrong with it when you have money :lol

I just watched the Hardcore Championship Battle Royal from WM16 & yeah that match is utter chaos, but in a good way of course.

Does anyone know if the re-issued WrestleMania DVD's are not blurred out? like 14 & 16.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What do people consider Bam Bam Bigelow's best SINGLES matches? US only, not against BRET. Watching his shoot atm and he's always considered one of the best big men to come into wrestling, but outside of a handful of matches I can't remember anything that great from him. His stuff with Bret was good, though not outstanding or anything. He had a super fun squash with Kid before the 95 RR and then an awesome tag at the RR. A fun match with Rey in WCW on Nitro in 99 I think it was. And then uhhhh... yeah. What am I missing? Keeping in mind nothing from Japan or anything.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I've signed up for the WWE Network for the next 6 Months. It's gotten better, experiencing little issues. Watch stuff on my PS3. So far, I've watched some matches and full PPVs from WWE and ECW. Everything has worked fine. The live broadcast may be different though, with many people watching at once. Not sure. What would be annoying if if it lowered quality and buffered. Imagine watching Taker/Lesnar with an amazing spot set up only for the stream to pause and start working again in 20 seconds with the spot already through, in awful pixelated quality.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm guessing ECW matches are out of question.

Go watch him beat up Barry Windham at Starrcade 88. There's also the Texas Death match with Lawler. And the match against Sandman in WCW. Honestly, from what I've seen and heard, his best stuff happened in Memphis and ECW, but for the most part, Bigelow was more of a "what could have been" story and oftentimes he was really lazy and sluggish in the ring. Dude is very good, but a guy like Dolph Ziggler is better :side:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I've signed up for the WWE Network for the next 6 Months. It's gotten better, experiencing little issues. Watch stuff on my PS3. So far, I've watched some matches and full PPVs from WWE and ECW. Everything has worked fine. The live broadcast may be different though, with many people watching at once. Not sure. What would be annoying if if it lowered quality and buffered. Imagine watching Taker/Lesnar with an amazing spot set up only for the stream to pause and start working again in 20 seconds with the spot already through, in awful pixelated quality.


That's exactly why I plan to order WM like normal on cable tv, and see how the network goes for everyone else. I'm not taking that chance.




SKINS said:


> Get the free trial bro, its a week long. Thats what I'm using, will to try it out. Will probably permanently buy the network around mania, they have to fix this bar though


I'd recommend that if you're gonna order for WM, you should probably do so a few days or even a week before. If you wait until WM weekend, I have the feeling that A LOT of people are going to be trying to sign up then, and it could be a recreation of what ended up happening when the network launched. A lot of people couldn't even sign up. You might not want to take that chance by waiting until a day or two before 'Mania.


How was Rock vs. Shane vs. Triple H at Insurrextion 2000? Annoying ass PPV name, btw.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> That's exactly why I plan to order WM like normal on cable tv, and see how the network goes for everyone else. I'm not taking that chance.


I have Comcast Cable, and I think I heard from someone that they discontinued WWE PPVs now. So can't do that, really.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

RhodesForWHC said:


> I have Comcast Cable, and I think I heard from someone that they discontinued WWE PPVs now. So can't do that, really.


Nah, they changed their minds and are going to keep WWE PPVs. For now, at least:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1137313-comcast-drops-wwe-ppvs-10.html#post31095713 (Post #92)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> What do people consider Bam Bam Bigelow's best SINGLES matches? US only, not against BRET. Watching his shoot atm and he's always considered one of the best big men to come into wrestling, but outside of a handful of matches I can't remember anything that great from him. His stuff with Bret was good, though not outstanding or anything. He had a super fun squash with Kid before the 95 RR and then an awesome tag at the RR. A fun match with Rey in WCW on Nitro in 99 I think it was. And then uhhhh... yeah. What am I missing? Keeping in mind nothing from Japan or anything.


I love that interview. He comes off as a really really good dude, doesn't really say anything negative about anyone. The one guy he didn't seem to like that much was Vader, but Vader has admitted several times he could be a complete asshole back in the early 1990s. Vader nowadays seems just like Bam Bam, a genuinely good person.

My favorite Bam Bam singles is his 1993 KotR match with Bret, and also his match in Barcelona with Bret. But since you said no Bret stuff, and since you are crazy for not liking that KotR match more than you do, try his match with Tazz in ECW in Asbury Park NJ. Remember that being pretty awesome.

For the most part though, you are right. He doesn't have the slew of top singles matches in the US like Vader does. I think part of that is definitely the competition he had, and yea part of it was probably him being lazy.

If you want to see a bad ass tag match, watch Vader/Bam Bam vs The Steiner Bros in Japan. Zep sent that to me once upon a time.  As good in real life as it sounds on paper.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Nah, they changed their minds and are going to keep WWE PPVs. For now, at least:
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1137313-comcast-drops-wwe-ppvs-10.html#post31095713 (Post #92)


Well that's interesting. Whatever, I've already decided to get the Network for the next 6 Months, so I'll just watch it on the Network. The good news is that this WM, while having some things to look forward to, isn't exactly something I am overly excited about, so if issues do occur, I won't be _that_ annoyed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm guessing ECW matches are out of question.
> 
> Go watch him beat up Barry Windham at Starrcade 88. There's also the Texas Death match with Lawler. And the match against Sandman in WCW. Honestly, from what I've seen and heard, his best stuff happened in Memphis and ECW, but for the most part, Bigelow was more of a "what could have been" story and oftentimes he was really lazy and sluggish in the ring. Dude is very good, but a guy like Dolph Ziggler is better :side:


Lawler match is definitely on my "why have I not watched this yet?" list. Fairly certain I've seen the Windham match, but don't remember it so it'll be something I watch when I get going in the Top 100 Matches of the 80's Poll.

Bigelow/HAK is awesome, can't believe I forgot that. Speaking of his WCW stuff, I remember being immensely disappointed with the Goldberg matches .

What else does he have in ECW besides Tazz?

Wish his stuff with Undertaker was better. If only Bam Bam was still in WWF in 96, I have a feeling their matches would have been so different and potentially good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you want to see a bad ass tag match, watch Vader/Bam Bam vs The Steiner Bros in Japan. Zep sent that to me once upon a time. As good in real life as it sounds on paper.


Which is on my DM Account.  Bam Bam/RVD was also pretty good too IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WM 25 on the Network again. Turned it on just in time for Shawn/Taker. So much :mark: Forgot about how damn silly the build to the World Title match was. Big Show and vickie and Edge love triangle fpalm oh and Cena with FOOTAGE. All I remember from this was the 1000 Cenas and the Double FU spot. Might stay around for Trips/Orton. Might.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Meh, I don't get the hate for Edge/Cena LMS, the entire match was building toward something huge and it didn't disapoint with the explosion 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My Best of Raw/SD 2013 arrived over the weekend. Lots of Shield goodies on there, Bryan and Cena/Punk from Raw. I'm going to try and chip away at it over the next few weeks. It's actually 3 weeks today until I fly out for Mania and 4 weeks until the big show itself. 4 weeks. It's crazy that it's now here after all the speculating that has gone on. Hopefully they announce a couple more matches on Raw tomorrow. I'm fully excited now, probably because I'm going, but whatever. Bring it on :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, who's ready for tomorrow night on Raw's huge event - ANOTHER Sheamus/Christian match?! It's gonna be a slobberknocker!!!!

:vince

In all seriousness, both of them are great workers and they've had some good stuff, but this is just ridiculous.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> My Best of Raw/SD 2013 arrived over the weekend. Lots of Shield goodies on there, Bryan and Cena/Punk from Raw. I'm going to try and chip away at it over the next few weeks.


That's a fun set, especially because I missed a lot of that. Loved Brock totally no-selling Heyman as he was commenting throughout the "tearing up HHH's office" segment.


Just watched *Benoit vs. Jericho [Submission Match] at Judgment Day 2000.* Loved it! Why does no one talk about it? Fucking loved Benoit's intensity at the end and aftermath. 
**** - **** 1/4.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> So, who's ready for tomorrow night on Raw's huge event - ANOTHER Sheamus/Christian match?! It's gonna be a slobberknocker!!!!


'Best Of 100 series'. Fucking Deja-Vu to the max, i know WWE think we have amnesia most of the time, but for fuck sake. Sheamus will probably win again anyways.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm looking forward to Raw. More development for Taker/Brock, more GOATness from Hunter/Bryan and I seem to be about the only person really enjoying Cena/Wyatt atm so more to their story too. Chuck in Hogan's announcement, more HEEL BOOTISTA promos, a wild WWE World Heavyweight Champion appearance, some Shield and yup, roll on tomorrow. 

Lesnar destroying Hunter's office was :lmao :clap and :mark:. Heyman commentary was also gold. "You're not Stephanie, no, you're much prettier than she is." 

:heyman2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, and more Santinemma, more Eva Marie and more Sheamus Brogue Kicking Christian to hell making sure nobody really gives a shit about their WM match, if they don't already. It's the WWE - you always need some pessimistic feelings.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

More Eva isn't a bad thing, brother

:flair3


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ATF said:


> Yeah, and more Santinemma, more Eva Marie and more Sheamus Brogue Kicking Christian to hell making sure nobody really gives a shit about their WM match, if they don't already. It's the WWE - you always need some pessimistic feelings.


I just forward the shit. Simples.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, more Eva isn't a bad thing - it's a Godawful thing. I already have Renee Young if I need some visual pleasure anyway :renee

Good point there. Perfect reasoning as to why I don't watch Raw live :genius


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Based on what is apparently happening on Raw this week I'm looking forward to:

UNDERTAKER :mark:
Sheamus Vs Christian (hate that they keep facing each other before WM, but fuck it, I'll take this every week over most of the other shit we get)
THE SHIELD (their segment on SD was great, can't wait to see where they go from there)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, I definitely look forward for whatever the Shield does after that excellent Summit segment :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm really curious what road they take with The Shield. I'd be all for them being up against a force of three guys where they're actually the underdogs (or at least built up like the underdogs) and essentially reform to the dominant group they were last year to win. Figure Shield vs Henry/Show/someone else would work. Sheamus would fit in nice there if they aren't doing Christian/Sheamus.

I don't want the Shield to break up. Ever. :side:


----------



## Romangirl252 (Feb 13, 2014)

I don't get off work until 9 and hope I don't miss anything awesome


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really have no idea what they are doing with the shield at mania, but I dont think the WWE does too :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A Triple Threat with the three of them. As I see it, it's quite obvious.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

See, I was hoping if they did do an eventual Shield break up, they would do it more as a parting of ways than a true break up. It would be cool to see them all go off on their own, then every once in a while after they establish themselves as singles guys they could reform to wreck havoc or fight off a force of other guys.

Personally, I hope they don't ever break up Harper and Rowan. They are too good for each other, and the whole Wyatt Family gimmick is so perfect they can keep that thing going Perpetually.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That would for sure be the preferred method, though I have a feeling they will do Reigns vs Ambrose with Rollins as a special referee or some shit like that


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

A fun little mini-set from Bam Bam in Japan showed up on XWTC few days ago, some of the matches listed make me wet:



> Akira Maeda vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (7/18/87)
> Antonio Inoki vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (1987)
> Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Big Van Vader (8/8/88)
> Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Vader (9/12/88)
> ...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> What do people consider Bam Bam Bigelow's best SINGLES matches? US only, not against BRET. Watching his shoot atm and he's always considered one of the best big men to come into wrestling, but outside of a handful of matches I can't remember anything that great from him. His stuff with Bret was good, though not outstanding or anything. He had a super fun squash with Kid before the 95 RR and then an awesome tag at the RR. A fun match with Rey in WCW on Nitro in 99 I think it was. And then uhhhh... yeah. What am I missing? Keeping in mind nothing from Japan or anything.


You've seen the Texas Death Match with Lawler, yeah?



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Lawler match is definitely on my "why have I not watched this yet?" list.


you SUCK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WORDS HURT .

Apparently. I find they don't. But I don't give a fuck. 

I'll watch it soon. My interest in watching wrestling is bubbling away at the moment, not quite at a boil but simmering nicely. Soon I shall be in a great wrestling mood, where I am able to go through match after match after match without getting burnt out for some time.

SOON BITCHES.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*1999 Write-Up*



Spoiler: 1999



Road Dogg vs. Al Snow (1/4): ***1/4
Mankind vs. The Rock (1/4): ***3/4
Big Bossman vs. Mankind (1/18): ***
Mankind vs. The Rock (Royal Rumble): ****1/2
The Rock vs. Triple H (1/25): ***1/2
The Rock vs. Mankind (1/31): ***3/4
Al Snow vs. Al Snow (2/13): Required viewing
Steve Austin Gauntlet (2/13): **3/4
Al Snow vs. Hardcore Holly (In Your House: St. Valentine's Day Massacre): ***
Mankind vs. The Rock (In Your House: St. Valentine's Day Massacre): ****
Mankind vs. The Rock (2/15): ***3/4
Jeff Jarrett & Owen Hart vs. X-Pac & HHH (3/1): ***
Mankind vs. Steve Austin (3/8): ***
Mankind & Steve Austin vs. Big Show & The Rock (3/15): ***1/4
Mankind vs. The Rock (3/22): **3/4
Steve Austin vs. Big Show (3/22): ***
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania): ***
Kane & X-Pac vs. Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett (4/5): ***
Mankind vs. Val Venis (4/5): **3/4
Al Snow vs. Hardcore Holly (Backlash): ***
New Age Outlaws vs. Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett (Backlash): ***
Mankind vs. Big Show (Backlash): ***1/4
Triple H vs. X-Pac (Backlash): ***
Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock (Backlash): ***3/4
Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Backlash): ****
Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon (5/3): Too fun
The Brood vs. The Hardy Boyz/Hayes (5/17): ***1/2
Triple H vs. Steve Austin (5/17): ***1/4
Kane & X-Pac vs. D'Lo Brown & Mark Henry (Over The Edge): ***1/2
Mankind vs. Triple H (5/31): ***
The Brood vs. The Hardy Boyz/Hayes (6/13): ***
Ken Shamrock vs. Jeff Jarrett (6/14): LMFAO
Mark Henry vs. Viscera (6/21): FATTIES
The Brood vs. The Hardy Boyz (King of the Ring): ***
Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (6/28): ***
D'Lo Brown vs. Al Snow (7/5): ***
The Rock vs. Triple H (7/5): ***1/2
X-Pac/Rock/Road Dogg vs. Triple H/Chyna/Billy Gunn (7/12): ***
Billy Gunn vs. The Rock (7/19): **3/4
Acolytes vs. Hardy Boyz/Hayes (Fully Loaded): ***
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (Fully Loaded): ***1/2
Kane & X-Pac vs. Acolytes (8/9): **3/4
Kane & X-Pac vs. Acolytes (8/16): **3/4
Triple H vs. Mankind (8/16): ***
Tag Team Turmoil (Summerslam): ***1/2
Ken Shamrock vs. Steve Blackman (Summerslam): ***
Shane McMahon vs. Test (Summerslam): ***3/4
Kane & X-Pac vs. Unholy Alliance (Summerslam): ***1/4
Mankind vs. Steve Austin vs. Triple H (Summerslam): ***
Big Show vs. Kane/X-Pac vs. Acolytes (8/26): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Road Dogg (8/26): **3/4
TAKA Michinoku vs. X-Pac (8/30): **3/4
Rock & Sock Connection vs. Unholy Alliance (8/30): **3/4
X-Pac vs. Chris Jericho (9/2): **3/4
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz (9/9): **3/4
Unholy Alliance vs. Rock & Sock Connection (9/9): ***1/2
Triple H vs. Vince McMahon (9/16): **3/4
Six-Pack Challenge (Unforgiven): ***1/2
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (9/30): **3/4 (SUPER Fun three minute match)
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (10/4): ***
Rock vs. Val Venis (10/7): ***1/2
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (10/7): ***1/4
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz (10/11): **3/4
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (10/14): **3/4
New Age Outlaws vs. Rock & Sock Connection (10/14): **3/4
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (No Mercy): ****3/4
Mankind vs. Val Venis (No Mercy): ***
X-Pac vs. Kane vs. Bradshaw vs. Faarooq (No Mercy): ***
Triple H vs. Steve Austin (No Mercy): ***1/4
Kane & X-Pac vs. Dudley Boys (10/18): **3/4
Al Snow vs. Val Venis (10/18): ***1/4
Rock & Sock Connection vs. Hollys (10/18): **3/4 (Foley literally carried this entire match by sitting on the stairs)
The Rock vs. Mankind (10/21): **3/4
Steve Austin vs. Val Venis (10/21): ***
Triple H vs. Mankind (10/25): ***1/4
Val Venis vs. Mankind (10/28): ***
Edge/Christian/Hardyz vs. Hollys/Too Cool (11/1): **3/4
Mankind/Al Snow vs. Albert/Bossman (11/1): **3/4
DX vs. Austin/Shane/Rock/Kane (11/4): **3/4
Chris Jericho vs. Chyna (Survivor Series): *** (In argument for greatest carryjob of all-time)
New Age Outlaws vs. Hardy Boyz (11/25): ***
Dudley Boys vs. Edge & Christian (12/2): **3/4
Mankind vs. Chris Jericho (12/2): **3/4
DX vs. Hardy Boyz/Show (12/2): ***
Al Snow/Chris Jericho vs. Rock & Sock Connection (12/6): **3/4
Al Snow vs. Mankind (12/9): ***1/4
Kane vs. X-Pac (Armageddon): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Chyna (Armageddon): *** (Not even Mitsuharu Misawa could possibly carry Chyna like Jericho did)
Dudley Boys vs. Rock & Sock Connection (12/13): **3/4
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz (12/13): **3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy (12/16): **3/4
Mankind vs. Al Snow (12/16): ***1/4
Acolytes vs. Mean Street Posse (12/16): (GOAT one minute match)
Christian/Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy/Edge (12/20): **3/4
Mick Foley vs. Santa Claus (12/20): ***
Kane vs. Big Show (12/20): **3/4
Al Snow vs. The Rock (12/23): ***
Big Show vs. Mankind (12/23): **3/4
Mankind vs. The Rock (12/27): **3/4
X-Pac vs. Jeff Hardy (12/27): **3/4
Big Show vs. Triple H (12/27): ***



*Most Valuable Player: The Rock*

For twelve whole months, The Rock electrified arenas night in and night out to the point where he did the unthinkable and even usurped Stone Cold Steve Austin as the face of the WWF. While 1998 was the year that Rock started crafting his People's Champion gimmick, 1999 was when he went in full force with said gimmick and crafted the witty catchphrases and facial expressions that we know him for. Every night, Rock did something on that microphone that was unprecedented and something nobody had ever seen in any form of media. Although he was often put into midcard feuds with the likes of Al Snow, Billy Gunn, and the British Bulldog, Rock was still able to make filler feuds the best part of the night like nobody else could. 

Just as impressive is how much he improved in the ring compared to 1998. As charismatic as Rock showed he was outside of the ring in 1998, he just didn't display it enough in the squared circle. Once the much-anticipated face turn occurred after Backlash, Rock was finally able to craft an identity in the ring. He didn't need to sacrifice much since most of his moveset was oriented towards playing with the crowd, but the turn allowed him to play off one of his biggest strengths, which is in his bumping and crowd connection. The strong catalog of matches combined with probably the greatest year of oration ever for a wrestler makes it obvious as to who the most valuable player of 1999 was. 

*Wrestler of the Year: Mick Foley*

While the Attitude Era was filled with some solid in-ring talent, almost all of them were not able to showcase their talent in the Attitude Era television format. Jolly ol' Mick however would not use that as a crutch or an excuse. Despite only being given five minutes with less than stellar talent to work with, Foley always did something fun and memorable. Whether it was taking an ugly chair bump or singing Christmas songs in a boiler room brawl, Mick did not waste a single second in a match. It's no surprise that the in-ring output of the WWF was at its worst when he left for injury. I said before in my 1998 write-up that Foley mastered the Attitude Era brawler style better than anyone else, but I would take that statement a step further. After watching Mick Foley once again carry another year in the WWF, it would be hard to dispute the statement that Mick Foley is the greatest brawler this business has ever seen.

*Match of the Year: Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (No Mercy)*

One of the best delights in wrestling is watching young guns make a name for themselves. Whether it's The Shield in the 6-Man Tag or Brock Lesnar beating The Rock for the Undisputed Title, the magical moment of watching a star blossom is unmatched. In this particular match, we didn't just see one star blossom, or even three; all four men made names for themselves and became overnight celebrities. The risks these guys took just for the services of Goldust's trophy wife caused them to get a standing ovation. Not only did this match shoot two iconic tag teams to mainstays, it also became the template of so many matches. One can make a strong argument that this match is one of the most influential matches of the past fifteen years, because without this tag team ladder match succeeding, we may have never gotten TLC among other things. Most of the spots here have been imitated in some form, but they never felt more organic than they did in this match. Once again, what sets this match apart from any other match in 1999 is the way that it made four men and one entire match type, which is something you cannot even remotely say about any other match in history.

*PPV of the Year: In Your House: Backlash*

For a year filled with poor PPV efforts, there was one show in particular that was rid of flaws, yet doesn't get talked about. From top to bottom, there is very little that you could say negatively about this show. We got ourselves a fun STF match between the Outlaws and Owen and Jarrett, another fun tag opener, a good hardcore match and an even better brawl, the first match of main event Triple H, a unique match that the WWE has never seen before, and a title match that was what the Wrestlemania bout should have been. This isn't an all-time great PPV, but considering the timeframe, it's worth a watch more so than any other show in 1999.

When I started this year, I was dreading it mainly because there was very little that I could remember being memorable with regards to match quality. While that turned out to be the case, I took a different approach to the year that made it much more enjoyable. By taking the year at face value, I was able to find so many hilarious moments and fun segments as expected from crash TV. Of course, the year was not without its mistakes even outside of the ring, as there were no good title reigns that I could think of that entire year and more often than not, the main event scene was screwed up. Specifically, there was a three month period between Backlash and Summerslam where the product was probably lower than it ever had been. The good news though is that the year ended with lots of momentum, so it was not all for naught. If I wanted to put a number on this year, it would probably be around a *4* out of ten. Not a good year, but enough good stuff in it that made it somewhat fun.

Now for some fun moments that we all should watch:



Spoiler: FUN



Too Cool dancing to Flava In Ya Ear
Al Snow wrestling himself
Stone Cold throwing microphones into the crowd
Car chases everywhere
Triple H hitting Vince with a machine gun
Mark Henry's sex therapy
Mark Henry getting fooled by a transvestite
Al Snow and Mick Foley rolling bowling balls into family jewels
Big Bossman trolling for twelve straight months
Undertaker talking about venturing off into the night
Billy Gunn getting annihilated on the mic by The Rock
Undertaker transforming into ABA and sitting on commentary instead of teaming with Big Show
Jericho telling Godfather to "get rid of those hos"
Ken Shamrock beating Jeff Jarrett while wearing a straitjacket
Big Show with the worst debut in WWF history
Viscera squashing hos
Faarooq beating the crap out of racists at a bar
Stuttering Bubba Ray Dudley
And finally:


IT WAS ME, ALL ALONG :vince4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fantastic review (Y)

Can't wait to watch 1999 when I finally finish 1998. It's a year that sometimes gets hyped up as the greatest of the AE but some fans (including Attitude Era fans) call it the worst of that time period so it's clearly a year with mixed reception.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

1999 is usually regarded universally as trash I think, at least on ppv.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

You will be doing 2000 now funnyfaces?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome write up, ff.

I literally can't put myself through 1999. :side: I do love that Hardyz/E&C match though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

1998-99 are universally agreed to be thrash but only from an in-ring standpoint, I think. 1998 is a great year so far (not in terms of ring work).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I highly recommend doing 2000 FF, best year for the Rock and HHH for sure. I'm just doing ppvs atm but its incredibly enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't care for much at all in 1999 OUTSIDE of the ring work. Never mind the putrid matches week in and week out. 1998 wasn't as bad but still awful. I love how Russo talks about how he got rid of all those crappy cartoon characters from the mid-90's when he took over and he made things more REAL... yet we ended up with stuff like THE ODDITIES, The Godfather (not saying he was bad, but come on lol), and a ton of other really fucking shitty gimmicks. And the storylines. Fuck me. Stupid shit everywhere you looked :lmao.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> I don't care for much at all in 1999 OUTSIDE of the ring work. Never mind the putrid matches week in and week out. 1998 wasn't as bad but still awful. I love how Russo talks about how he got rid of all those crappy cartoon characters from the mid-90's when he took over and he made things more REAL... yet we ended up with stuff like THE ODDITIES, The Godfather (not saying he was bad, but come on lol), and a ton of other really fucking shitty gimmicks. And the storylines. Fuck me. Stupid shit everywhere you looked :lmao.


Russo was so smart that he took John Tenta and turned him into Golga. ~__~


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Love 98-99. I put characters above all else, and I love me some Stone Cold, some evil Undertaker, some mute Kane, some Rock, some Mankind, a little bit of DX, a little bit of Triple H, and almost all the mid carders like Al Snow, Shamrock, D Lo ect. These guys are the ones who won the war. And I respect them for that.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wasn't Russo in charge for most of the storylines that happened in 1997 (including Kane/Taker feud)? To his credit, he does give everyone a storyline and does make the crowd invested in feuds. Even some low/mid card feuds like Sable/Mero or Owen Hart/Shamrock, there is a background to these storylines. It's not like the modern day WWE where Christian and Sheamus or Del Rio and Ziggler are feuding for no reason.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cornette was booking most of 1997 with him, and he was responsible for Taker/Kane.

Yeah, Russo gave everyone storylines and characters and shit, but honestly I still think most of them sucked .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Kane/Taker feud is pretty ridiculous, to be fair. They shot lightning and their backstory was that of murder.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That kind of stuff worked for their characters at least. Not like Shamrock and Owen feuded because Shamrock killed Stu Hart in an MMA fight or something .

Kane/Taker feud started off awesome, then after WM is went to shit lol. Teaming up, breaking up, swerves... urgh.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Katie Vick angle started almost the same with the whole "you're a murderer" thing. Bearer said the same to Undertaker when accusing him of killing his own parents. Although the Kane/Taker feud is miles better


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> A fun little mini-set from Bam Bam in Japan showed up on XWTC few days ago, some of the matches listed make me wet:


Edit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I always felt if they wanted the best story lines, they should have hired Cornette, Heyman, and Jim Ross as a three person head booking team. Ross would be an excellent mediator for those two hot heads and all 3 have a fantastic understanding of how wrestling should be presented. I wonder what would happen if Vince just turned over all of 2014 to them following WM. Bet we would see the best television yet.

If Cornette booked Taker/Kane, who came up with Mankind/Taker? It would be nice to know who booked my favorite feud ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mankind/Taker was likely Cornette too. Or at least a collaboration of him and Bruce Pritchard, maybe Ross too who sometimes sat in on meetings and was extremely high on Mick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal did you watch Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT yet


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The SD matches? Not yet. Saving them for relief after I watch a shitty 03 PPV. In the middle of Unforgiven 03, so once I make it through HHH/Goldberg I'll watch em .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What a "main event". Waiting for the fever pitch. Waiting. Still waiting. Then it's over. You're not sure why, but glad to see Triple H lose. Still, BIG lol @ how flat all of it was. Makes you understand the booking of SummerSlam even less.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Kane/Taker feud started off awesome, then after WM is went to shit lol. Teaming up, breaking up, swerves... urgh.


I'm really happy to see someone else agree with me on this. The build up to their eventual Mania match was spectacular, but the feud ran its course, and by the time they joined/feuded AGAIN after Summerslam, it was pretty obvious that nobody really cared about the feud. Forget the shitty matches; ATTITUDE ERA crowds were dead for both guys. And considering that the supposed strong point of the first half of the era was the main event scene, this point should be further emphasized. I can honestly say that 2013's main event scene was better than that second half of 1998 minus Corporate Rock. Remember guys that Orton/Big Show rarely main evented RAW :side:.



> Love 98-99. I put characters above all else, and I love me some Stone Cold, some evil Undertaker, some mute Kane, some Rock, some Mankind, a little bit of DX, a little bit of Triple H, and almost all the mid carders like Al Snow, Shamrock, D Lo ect. These guys are the ones who won the war. And I respect them for that.


I can definitely understand this viewpoint. All of those guys were fun and had some awesome stuff. But the key word for me is "some". Just about all of them except I guess Mankind had a period where they got kinda annoying or they just had no direction. And for me, I can somewhat forgive that stuff if they at least have good matches (such as Sheamus), but we didn't get that substitute. Those guys definitely won the war though. Eh, personal preference.

The plan right now is to finally go through 2000 as well as 2001, and then if I find someone who uploaded 2005, I'll finish up with that too. I want to also do yearly reviews for WCW, but I can't find anyone that uploaded Thunder in full.

A couple other points to make about 1999. One guy that I was really impressed by that we never talk about in this thread was Val Venis. His gimmick truly did hide some of his in-ring talent. When he turned full-on heel in October of 1999, he was outstanding in the ring. Not just good, but outstanding. Looked great against all the big stars in the company. If Val had more passion in wrestling instead of in dumb leftist political agendas, then he could have been remembered for more than just being the porno guy.

Another point to make is the parallel between Rock's rise in 1999-2000 and Bryan's. Starting from after Summerslam of 1999, I compared some of Rock's booking as well as his crowd reactions to Bryan's from Summerslam 2013 onward. People have made this point before, but during this period, Rock would get his ass kicked all the time against not just main eventers, but by lower midcarders too. Bryan was also in the main event scene more often than The Rock was. I'm sure if we teleported to late 1999, we would all talk about how much it sucked that guys like Austin, Undertaker, Big Show, and Triple H were wrongly holding on to Rock's spot, and Foley would essentially be the CM Punk of the past. 

With regards to crowd reactions, I was amazed by how The Rock surpassed Stone freakin' Cold of all people. Oftentimes, segments would be filled with chants for Rock, even if the focus was on another face such as Big Show or Kane. And while Rock was more over than Bryan is now, the difference is A LOT smaller than we may think. Revisiting some of Bryan's reactions truly are surreal. Even in common cities, Rock and Bryan seemed to get similar reactions with 14 years of difference between the two shows. 

My point really is that what's going on with Bryan is not something new. The positives and negatives were very similar among the way the two guys were booked. The one major difference though is that commentators and other wrestlers never undermined The Rock. Despite getting his ass kicked and despite losing title matches left and right, we never got the impression that Rock was just a shit-talker that couldn't back up what he said. He was still portrayed as a legitimate A+ player. I used to love his commentary, but JBL is doing a downright horrible job with finding that medium of playing a heel and also putting over talent. All these little backhanded comments do add up, and the emphasis from guys like JBL and HHH should be less on Bryan being a goatfaced underdog midget, and more on how talented Bryan is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It didn't help having Undertaker be a full blown tweener, leaning more towards heel when he was put up against Kane later in the year. Fans had no interest in that. Being diluted to the scenario as it is & having to see two "bad guys" fight while Austin sat w/his thumb up his ass was enough to burn anyone out.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody, you are also a fan of the Kane/X-Pac tandem right? Mr. Waltman was/is a boss.

And what would you recommend from SMW? I heard Terry Funk had some beauties there. I'm kinda worried about watching fossilized versions of R&R Express. It was bad enough in 1998.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting Mania 26 on the Network. Can't say I've ever seen this all the way through, so looking forward to it. This rendition of America the Beautiful needs to fuck off though. Jeez.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

For the love of god skip Bret/Vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane & X-Pac duo owned.

SMW? Look for a bunch of tag team matches. Even if worried about generic Rock & Roll Express stuff. But the premise of the company was so damn fun, I find most to just be a blast. Heck, I even liked some New Jack matches while there. Something about him in a southern style indie/territory was kind of wild. Perhaps that's my memory wanting to still enjoy it, but it HAS to be better than all of his other shit in ECW, XPW, etc.

Also, Dirty White Boy ftw.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kane and X-pac were awesome. Not sure why people list that as one of the low points of Kane's career. I remember i hated Tori when i was a kid. Poor Kane. At least he got his revenge in Mania 2000...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perhaps they meant the never ending feud once X-Pac turned heel? b/c while I liked it at the start, that stuff got tired immediately. Why it didn't end after the steel cage match is beyond me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The bigger question is why the fuck did it end in a random tag match involving Rikishi and Road Dogg? :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Because that would ruin the NO SINGLES MATCH theme that WM 2000 somehow ended up having.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And THAT'S what ended it too. wtf :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So Brye isn't a mod anymore, but Hayley is. Hmmm, I think somebody stole someone's SPOT . Brye you better make sure Hayley isn't burying you to Headliner behind your back :lmao

Bout to watch Austin/Angle Unforgiven 2001. I remember this matching being really awesome though not nearly on e level of Summerslam. And Vengeance, well, it's best we don't talk about Vengeance I think. That PPV is the worst I've ever seen Stone Cold in the ring. Just awful.

If Austin had just finished the year strong, it's entirely possible his 2001 would be the unanimous best year ever for an in ring performer. As it is was still the best in the world that year and one of the 5-7 best years ever for an in ring performer.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Perhaps they meant the never ending feud once X-Pac turned heel? b/c while I liked it at the start, that stuff got tired immediately. Why it didn't end after the steel cage match is beyond me.


 true but it isn't BAD compared to some storylines that Kane has been involved in. Like the Katie Vick, Storyline with Lita/snitsky, Cena feud and etc. would have mentioned the may 19 storyline but I 'liked' it at the time. Always thought it was pointing to Kane returning with his mask.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cody, you are also a fan of the Kane/X-Pac tandem right? Mr. Waltman was/is a boss.
> 
> And what would you recommend from SMW? I heard Terry Funk had some beauties there. I'm kinda worried about watching fossilized versions of R&R Express. It was bad enough in 1998.


Al Snow v. Ricky Morton matches are supposed to be phenomenal.


----------



## Romangirl252 (Feb 13, 2014)

I just watched WM 25 on the wwenetwork and all the matches were awesome


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH vs Orton was awesome :kobe

Whatever floats your boat I guess


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The divas battle royal is the pinnacle of wrestling.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

[INSERT COMMENT ABOUT A BAD WRESTLEMANIA 25 MATCH HERE]


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Main event of 25 made Hunter's midcard match at 26 look comparable to either Taker/Michaels match at those shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

tbf, Sheamus was awesome in that match. It's why I like it as much as I do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2010. That's a year I never want to relive.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The video package for Batista/Cena has already made me more interested in their match than most Cena/Orton matches.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 2010. That's a year I never want to relive.


The birth of heel Cole. That's a time I too don't ever want to relive. Ugh fpalm


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

2010 had some upsides to it. Some good to great matches in there from Punk, Rey, Bryan, and Ziggler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2010 getting frowned upon despite all the great matches?

Guest Hosts can be easily ignored, people.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

2010 was the debut of NXT and the Nexus angle which had great potential. Still good though. I will still like it as the year where Kane got a proper world title run and feuded with Taker for the last time.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Starrcade 1986 

I was going to watch “The Big Event” but it looked like a good amount of the matches were clipped and I really have no interest in seeing that. The show also didn’t look very good either.


*Nelson Royal and Tim Horner vs. Don and Rocky Kernodle* 
There wasn’t much of a heel/face dynamic here and the match felt very much like an exhibition. However, the pacing was good and they executed everything really well. Both teams had the same dynamic as well as they each had a younger, quick guy and an older, more powerful veteran. It worked and it was fun. 
****


*Brad Armstrong vs. “Gorgeous” Jimmy Garvin w/Precious *
This was OK I guess. Garvin was willing to cheat but he never really had the chance to do anything too dastardly. This just ended up being a back and forth match with neither guy getting the advantage for too long. It ends in draw which really shows how evenly matched they were. OK it about as far as I’m willing to go.
****


*Shaska Whatley and The Barbarian vs. Hector Guerrero and Baron Von Raschke*
I’m not sure if you will find a more random assortment of wrestlers involved in a tag match with each other. Hector did most of the work for his team and he did a really good job building up to the hot tag whole throwing in some flashy moves that led up to it. It was cool to finally see a move over the top rope and onto the floor. The heels didn’t really sell too much for him but once he made the tag they started selling. The build was good to the tag but things ended too quickly after the tag and Baron was rather unimpressive in the ring as well.
***¼ *


_No DQ for the United States Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Kansas Jayhawks vs. Khrusher Khrushchev and Ivan Koloff(c)*
It felt like a wild and out of control brawl and they did ignore the basic rules of a tag match which I also liked. It was short and frantic but it was just a fun brawl to watch. 
***½* 


_Strap Match:_
*Rick Rude vs. Wahoo McDaniels*
This was bad. I really wanted to like this and I got really excited when I first saw that Rude was in the match. But it wasn’t good. It was so slow and it never really picked up. I didn’t feel any hate between the two and they rarely used the strap. When they used the strap they were pretty weak shots with it as well. Maybe at one point Wahoo McDaniels was a good wrestler but I’ve been really underwhelmed with what I’ve seen of him.
**½* 


_Central States Championship Match:_
*Bill Dundee vs. Sam Houston(c)*
Dundee plays this old school heel where he takes every cheap shot possible to get the upper hand on Houston. I’ll give Houston credit that he knows how to play the generic babyface as well as anyone. Nothing about this was particularly special or worth mentioning. I was going to give it a pretty average score but the ending was shockingly stupid. How does someone get DQed for using a wrestling boot as a weapon? How is that illegal? You kick people with them all the time how is hitting someone with it any different? 
*¾** 


_Hair vs. Hair_
*Jimmy Valiant w/Big Mamma vs. Paul Jones*
I felt guilty about giving Valiant matches “No” ratings. So I watched this. 
*DUD
*

_Street Fight:_
*Big Bubba w/Jim Cornette vs. Ron Garvin*
I don’t know if I should say it sucked or if it was boring. I’m torn on which description would be more accurate. 
*½* *


_First Blood Match for the United States Championship:_
*Tully Blanchard(c) w/JJ Dillon vs. Dusty Rhodes*
Here’s what makes this match kind of strange for the time period. Guys would bleed all the time. All the time. So instead of trying to resort to some weapon or fighting outside the ring it was totally reasonable to expect that this match could just end with a few good punches or a well placed elbow from Dusty. It wasn’t the all out war that I was hoping for but I did like how apprehensive both guys were. Another BS finish was a little annoying but the match was highly entertaining even with the dumb finish. Tully protecting his head at the expense of getting hit on other parts of his body, Dusty relying on his elbows to win the match, and just overall way that both of them acted made this seem like a smartly worked match. I even liked the pre-match stuff where JJ bladed before the match started when Dusty hit him with an elbow. It reinforced the idea that Dusty could win the match at any given time by hitting Tully with the elbow.
***3/4*


_Scaffold Match:_
*The Road Warriors w/Paul Ellering vs.The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette and Big Bubba*
I’ll give everyone credit for even agreeing to go through with this match. It’s scary to watch so I can only imagine what it’s like to be up there. The scaffold is so thin that I don’t know how they did anything up there. They didn’t do much but they made me feel afraid that someone was going to get seriously injured. I’m not sure if I can say that I enjoyed this. I really just wanted this to end without someone dying (even though I knew that Cornette was the only one that would get injured in this match). I just wish they made the scaffold wider so the guys could actually do something up there without risking their lives. For a match where they couldn’t do anything but punch each other while standing or fight on their knees this was great. I’m not sure how they could have safely done a better job. If I were going to make a food analogy I would say they were given shitty ingredients and made a better dish out of those ingredients then they had any right to do.
***3/4*


_Steel Cage Match for the NWA Tag Team Championship_
*The Rock ‘n Roll Express vs. Arn and Ole Anderso*n
I thought this was pretty fantastic. Gibson started the match out and I thought he was going to end up playing the face in peril. He climbed to the top rope and an Anderson caught him and injured his leg. They proceeded to work the leg until he was hobbling around on one leg. Then he made the tag and I thought things would pick up leading to the finish. Well they did pick up but because Gibson was out of commission the Anderson’s again got the upper hand. They busted Morton open and started working his arm. Now you had Gibson on leg and Morton looking near death. They both sold amazingly. Next time a guy wants to sell his arm he should watch this match to see how it’s done. Just the angle that he would hold his arm and the way his fingers were positioned made it look like he had a serious injury. 

Morton got a serious beat down while Gibson was in the corner waiting for the tag. Gibson didn’t do much after he tagged out but when he would get involved I loved that he was still selling his leg. What I loved so much here was that the stage was set that it made the Rock n’ Roll Express look like they didn’t have a chance. Both Gibson and Morton were injured and the Andersons were in control from bell to bell. Everything was built up to a big tag to Gibson but we never got that. When the match ended you were left wondering, “How did they pull it off?” The match was a blast to watch, the Andersons worked as a single mind and Gibson and Morton sold amazingly. The match told a really good story as well. I thought the ending was surprising but it wasn’t really wanted I wanted to see. I wanted the hot tag and I wanted to see them go crazy and have a war for at least a few minutes. It’s not that I didn’t like the ending, it’s just that I could have easily loved the ending. However the build was so great and the finish did make perfect sense so I can’t complain too much. 
******


_NWA Championship Match_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Nikita Koloff*
I was really curious how this was going to work out because on paper it looked like it was going to be Flair being Flair and having a great match with someone that I don’t think is a great worker. I really wanted to see the man that could have a great match with a broomstick have a great match with someone that really didn’t deserve to be in the main event. Basically Koloff took Magnum TA’s spot because this event was only a few months after his accident. The problem with this is that Koloff was playing a Russian heel and this was still during the cold war. He did his whole face turn but the fans had no embraced him. He had a John Cena like reaction when his name was announced. 

The match itself was good but far from great. If you’ve see Flair wrestle Luger you pretty much know what Koloff did on offense except he didn’t do it as well as Luger did. I mean you still had that basic story where it looks like Flair has no chance at winning. This took it almost to a different level because Flair was getting his offense in time and time again and even when he would get in some offense Koloff would jut no sell it. Flair looked totally screwed before he eventually found a ***** in the armor. He was able to work the leg and actually control the match. I really liked how anything Flair did that wasn’t focused on the leg just didn’t work at all. 

That’s really where the good stops. Koloff just wasn’t that good here. The whole story behind the match was that nothing Flair did worked unless he went after the leg. I feel like an essential element of that story would be to do a good job selling the leg. It’s not like he did a terrible job with it but after the selling in the last match it was pretty underwhelming. Throw in a weak finish and I wasn’t impressed. It was better than most of the stuff on the undercard but it wasn’t good enough for a main event. I can only imagine how great this would have been in Magnum TA was in this match like he should have been.
*****​

Well there was one great match but there was also a lot of bad stuff. The show was also almost 4 hours long which is not a positive in this case. There were matches that could have just been left off the card that would have really enhanced the show. I guess it wasn’t a total waste of time at least because I got to see one great match.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> 2010 getting frowned upon despite all the great matches?
> 
> Guest Hosts can be easily ignored, people.


2010 is fine if you buy a bunch of DVD's and just skip forward to the good matches. Literally reliving that year, though, would be a fate worse than death.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upped a few Sting matches on my DM Channel.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> 2010 getting frowned upon despite all the great matches?
> 
> *Guest Hosts can be easily ignored, people.*


No they cannot. Unless their names are Bob Barker or Shaquille O'Neal, they CANNOT.

2009 itself also had a great number of good/great matches (Taker/HBK, Swagger/Christian, the Rey/Jericho series, the Punk/Jeff series, the DX/Legacy series, etc. etc.), yet it's still remembered as a rather disasterous year. Guest hosts aren't the sole reason, but they're the major reason.

But I agree 2010 deserves a bit more regard.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As good as Chris Masters was, he's not good enough to mask the awful PPVs, dumb storylines, failed big feuds, bad title reigns, Punk burial, and only two matches that could be argued as "classics". I think I dislike 2010 more than 2007.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Awful PPV's in 2010? Yeah, a few sucked hard *cough*Royal Rumble*cough* but I definitely wouldn't consider WrestleMania 26 awful. Or Money In The Bank. Or SummerSlam. Or Hell In A Cell. Or the 1st half of Survivor Series p). Or TLC.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> Starrcade 1986
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great review man, I've added this match to my list to watch on the Network as soon as I get home, sounds great on paper. "Selling like Ricky Morton" isn't a phrase for nothing, that man knew how to take a beating and get tremendous sympathy.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> As good as Chris Masters was, he's not good enough to mask the awful PPVs, dumb storylines, failed big feuds, bad title reigns, Punk burial, and only two matches that could be argued as "classics". I think I dislike 2010 more than 2007.


Agreed. The year as a whole was very underwhelming especially on the storyline/complete show perspective. Down there with 2007 and 2009 as overall 'meh' WWE years outside of some notable great matches from a few good men.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm criminally unfamiliar with The Rock n Roll Express, having only seen a handful of matches at most. Any recs?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of Ricky Morton's inspiring selling, check out Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton from one of the Great American Bash tours in '86. The match is also on the Four Horsemen DVD. It's one of the best cage matches ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well tbf you can say that about every year, as all have alot of shitty stuff. I like 2010 from what Ive seen so idk

I watched Orton/HHH No Mercy LMS on the network for the first time,Pretty good match, for guys that get criticized and rightfully so for their punches, most here was very good. Wasnt that spotty which was a plus. Only part that pissed me off was the spot where HHH hits Orton in the head w/ the chair while orton head was on the caved in part of the steel steps. Guy just falls back slowly, without even flinching or grabbing his head in pain, :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only good PPVs from 2010 are MITB and NoC, and I would take Payback over both shows.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, I forgot Night Of Champions. That's great too.

You didn't like anything else? Hell In A Cell was, bar the last two matches, pretty wicked for example. Bryan/Miz/Morrison was an all-out war that expertly played off each man's strenghts (Bryan's submission specialism, Miz being a cowardly heel taking chances with it being a 3-way, Morrison just being Spider-Man within the "Counts Anywhere" stip), super underrated. Orton/Sheamus was a propfest, and featured one of the stupidest HIAC spots ever (Irish Curse on the steps, with Sheamus taking the damage on his knee), but hey, it was entertaining for what it was. And Cena/Barrett is even more underrated than all of this stuff imho. Hell, I even enjoyed Edge/Swagger for what it was.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SKINS said:


> Well tbf you can say that about every year, as all have alot of shitty stuff.


I can't say that about WWF in the years 1997 and 2000, but those may be exceptions to the standard. Hell even with the Invasion angle not reaching its potential as a historic angle, 2001 was overall a good year. Not to say you will not find weak points in those years either but they are at a minimul compared to those years mentioned earlier.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 26, MITB, and NOC are the best shows from 2010

Although I am one of the biggest marks for the Summerslam main event


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

2010 WWE was testing out some new talent, and was booking them very poor. Wade Barrett was a really hot act, but unfortunately hew was very poor in the ring when he first started out. If he was as good as he was now around that time, those ME's that he had would have been a bit more tolerable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anyone here seen the Hart/Hart Iron man from the house show ?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Has anyone here seen the Hart/Hart Iron man from the house show ?


Yeah. Boring. Don't bother. Owen's antics were entertaining and the crowd was into it, but it was faaar too drawn out. All their other matches are much, much, better.

WMX is still the gold standard, IMO.


_ETA_: I'll just post this quote from Clique that I just saw in another thread. Funny timing:


Clique said:


> I do not believe any other WrestleMania opening match comes close to this mat classic. Arguably Bret's best wrestled match and I would undoubtedly say this was Owen's best match of his career. I enjoyed how his obnoxious, jealous little brother act was so prevalent in his character work throughout the match. The match builds beautifully from beginning to end with every hold and counter-hold too. A WrestleMania classic!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The PG Era as a whole up until Punk changed the BIZ is pretty god damn BLAH television if you ask me. The in-ring product stayed pretty fucking good for the most part barring a bunch of shit PPVs, but as for interest and overall storylines I think the WWE was stuck in a MOSTLY (there are many exceptions of course) shitty situation at that time.

The year that's the greatest in WWE history is probably 2000 from both standpoints. HHH GOATING it up mixed with one of the most talented rosters in wrestling history? Fantastic. My own personal favorite year is 2005 however, or maybe 2004. Both rule the planet if you ask me .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Here is the Hart v. Hart gem that should get more eyeballs on it rather than the boring Ironman match:



> *Bret "Hitman" Hart vs. "The King of Harts" Owen Hart*
> No Holds Barred
> _WWF Monday Night Raw 03/27/1995_
> 
> ...


When I initially recommended the match there were quite a few responses of 'I never knew this match existed'. So watch it!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah for every borefest Owen/Bret had (Iron Man house show, Cage SS), they also had some fucking CLASSICS (WM, Action Zone, NHB Raw).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Yeah for every borefest Owen/Bret had (Iron Man house show, Cage SS), they also had some fucking CLASSICS (WM, Action Zone, NHB Raw).




Cal you just LOVE shitting on that SS Cage match, but you can't convince me that it is anything short of spectacular. I know YOU find it boring, but for me, it's so unique and different and it fits the characters involved PERCECTLY. It really would have made Bret look bad to have a bloody cage match with his own brother. Baseing it around the escape was really the only way to go, and the way they built the suspense was downright masterful.

Just finished Austin/Angle Unforgiven 2001. While the SS match gets all the pub, and rightly so as I believe it's one of the 5 greatest matches ever had on US soil, this match should NOT be slept on like it is. They start it out in a similar fashion to SS with some great, heated, brawling down the aisle and it has you thinking they are picking back right where they left off at SS. The reason this match doesn't quite reach those heights is that there is a rather dull period for about 5 minutes once the match gets back inside the ring. Business picks up again on the outside when Austin starts repeatedly tossing Angle back on top the table. For the last 10 minutes or so it's a complete blast, with Angle picking up the 1-2-3 in his hometown to become WWE champion. Also, just listen to the commentary. This is what commentary should be like. Heyman and Ross are the best booth WWE has ever given us. Heyman is a heel but he NEVER buries Kurt or makes him seem like anything less than a world class wrestler.

****1/4 from me.

Also watched Angle/Benoit 30 Minute Ultimate Submission match. Cal said in his review that this is the smartest worked match either guy had in their entire career, and I tend to agree. Every single aspect of it makes sense, from the limb work to the submissions chosen. This is by far my favorite match that these two had together, the first 10 minutes are some of the best mat/counter wrestling I've ever seen from these two. Should be required viewing for everyone.

****1/2 from me.

Cal, your website is great for people with the Network. I don't always have time to watch a full 3 hour PPV, so your reviews have been a god send for mining through the garbage to find the gems when I'm short on time. Post more reviews


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just finished Austin/Angle Unforgiven 2001.


Need to watch this, don't think i ever have TBH and i of course fucking adore the SS match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Totally agreed for the lovefest given to the first 10 minutes of Angle/Benoit Backlash 2001. That 1/3 of the 30 minute match was just fucking IMMACULATE. That's not something you say a lot in Kurt Angle matches, let alone Angle/Benoit matches, but boy was that portion fucking awesome. Too bad they had to put me asleep for the rest of the match until the aftertime which was good again


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good Lord I love that raw NHB

Edit: Me and Cal agree on something  Cage sucks


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Totally agreed for the lovefest given to the first 10 minutes of Angle/Benoit Backlash 2001. That 1/3 of the 30 minute match was just fucking IMMACULATE. That's not something you say a lot in Kurt Angle matches, let alone Angle/Benoit matches, but boy was that portion fucking awesome. Too bad they had to put me asleep for the rest of the match until the aftertime which was good again



See, while the first 10 minutes were undoubtedly the best part of the match, the next 22 I thought were still really, really good. I think if you tried to rewatch, and pay REALLY close attention to all the details, you will see how well executed everything is. To use an overused cliche, there is just no wasted motion. Every punch, kick, hold, move, is done for a reason, to directly affect the limb or part of body the other is targeting. Even Angle's stalling made perfect sense, he was up 3-2, any wrestler in a real match with this stip would do the same.

I know your girl loves some Benoit, pop this match in again whenever you have 32 minutes to kill and try to really focus on everything they do. Might change your mind 

Watching Austin/Bret SVS 1996 in HD for the first time :mark: Will watch that Bret/Owen NHB match as soon as I'm done, never seen it before I'm excited for it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm a Benoit fanboy too so I wouldn't mind. Maybe even tonight. Maybe. God I'm seeing it now - playing the Tomb Raider reboot (via PS Plus), watching Benoit matches w/hot gf and possibly safe sex. #BESTNIGHTEVER :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I said that match was the smarted worked match either man had had? You sure I didn't just mean working together?

WEB SITE PIMPED :mark:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, I'm a Benoit fanboy too so I wouldn't mind. Maybe even tonight. Maybe. God I'm seeing it now - playing the Tomb Raider reboot (via PS Plus), watching Benoit matches w/hot gf and possibly safe sex. #BESTNIGHTEVER :mark:



Safe sex? Pshhhh, rookie 

Cal, you might have said together, but honestly it might even apply to all their matches. For someone that can nit pick the hell out of a match when I want to, I really couldn't find any gripes with how they went about their business there. 

I'm serious when I say that your website is the perfect companion for people that have the Network. There is just so much there when you first log on, it makes it hard what to decide to watch. Usually I get in the mood for either a specific era (like early 90's WCW, or R.A. era WWE for instance) so I'll go search one of those years and just so much shit comes up. I'm not like you and Hayley and Yeah1993, I haven't seen 90% of all the wrestling that's taken place on North American soil. I really don't know where to start at times, and who am I gonna look to for opinions on whats good? Meltzer? PSHHHHHHH :lmao So while I'm not always in line with your opinions on matches, your reviews are a good place to start. I have that list you posted with your Cal scale for all the PPV's you've reviewed if I feel like watching a whole show, or I just go through the reviews section. That's how I came up with Austin/Angle Unforgiven. Totally had forgotten that match existed until I read that review.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BIG CAL IS BIGGER THAN MELTZER~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Safe sex? Pshhhh, rookie


Hey, I'm only 16, here in Portugal it's illegal to go before that and I'm not taking risks... yet. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Reading Cal's Summerslam 2001 review. Really need to rewatch that event again. Esp the cruiserweight and Rhyno/Y2J. Love this GIF though :lol










Seriously. What was going on?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

In this thread and probably on this forum, you have way more street cred than Meltzer. That guy lost his marbles YEARS ago. And Wade Keller just drives me nuts. I don't know what it is about him, but he makes me want to put a brick through my computer just listening to his Podcast. He can't go 5 seconds without pimping his "VIP Membership express line extravaganza". Plus Bruce Mitchell looks like the guy in this video:






And neither of those guys has ever made me laugh out loud while listening to them or reading their reviews. So yea, I guess you have the market cornered on being informative and funny in reviewing wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Hitman said:


> Reading Cal's Summerslam 2001 review. Really need to rewatch that event again. Esp the cruiserweight and Rhyno/Y2J. Love this GIF though :lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's going on is the worst ladder match spot in history, in probably the worst ladder match in history .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> What's going on is the worst ladder match spot in history, in probably the worst ladder match in history .


I'm sure i read some positivity on one of their ladder matches too, must have been Invasion (i think).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That was a hardcore match, and it ruled.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cody always seemed liked a smart guy, but how he prefers that SS 2001 Ladder Match to Eddie/RVD Raw is beyond me.

Austin/Bret SVS 1996 was every bit as good as I remembered. I love how they build that match, it starts off slow with Bret being a bit timid and defensive as he hadn't wrestled since WM 12, but as Austin gets more and more vicious, he awakens the beast and Bret starts firing back. The brawling outside the ring was great, and the last 10 minutes or so are as good as any you will find in wrestling. Vince was downright awful on commentary though, thank god JR was there to bail him out and save him numerous times. Honestly, I would probably consider this a match worthy of "the full 5" if they didn't some how manage to top it at WM 13. When something gets 5 stars from me, its because I deem it to be perfect and that nothing either guy could have done to make the match any better. Since we all know they managed to do even better, I will give it ****3/4. Not too shabby, still one of the 30 or so best matches in WWE history. Really nice seeing it in HD for the first time. I also like how Austin used this finish as a tease several times throughout his career. There are atleast 2-3 matches where I can remember seeing Austin either lock in a sleeper or a Million Dollar Dream only to have the guy walk up the ropes and fall back for the roll up. I love it when wrestlers do stuff like that.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Going through classic matches I have no idea how I've never seen, starting with Hart/Perfect KOTR 93 was great probably ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually liked Vince as a color commentator, one of the best


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I hated Vince as a color commentator. He, Gorilla Monsoon, and Tony Schiavone were worse than Michael Cole. Now Matt Striker. There's a quality commentator.

Finished Royal Rumble 2000. There are two matches on that show that I know I love more than anyone else here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which ones?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Must be the Bikini contest that Mae Young won :allen1 

Is it Tazz vs Angle or the IC title triple threat? I assume its not the tables match or Foley/HHH because those are universally praised


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> I actually liked Vince as a color commentator, one of the best



He could be good no doubt but he was flat TERRIBLE in that SVS 1996 match. He just didn't make sense a lot of times and would only offer cliches or platitudes when JR would try to get him more involved. Not to mention he was just so wishy washy, he wouldn't say anything overly positive or negative he just kinda stuck with "he's resilient" or "man Austin just doesn't have respect". Also, that whole "1-2-3 HE GOT HIM! HE GOT HIM....NO, NO HE DIDNT" thing got old REAL QUICK, especially when it wasn't even a close kick out.

Funnyfaces, go listen to Matt Stryker in the HBK/Taker match at WM 26 then come back to me. Stryker could be okay at times but when he was bad he was borderline unbearable. Still, I'd much prefer him to JBL/Lawler. Honestly, I'd much rather have Booker around than JBL/Lawler too. Don't understand why Booker gets the hate he does at least he was positive, had good energy, and knew how to put the match over. I'll take Smackdown Tazz over any of those guys tho. Tazz is excellent.


Regal is the best color guy right now bar none. His work at Arrival was absolutely fantastic. It was like night and day listening to him and whoever the guy they have down there now as opposed to the Raw booth. They seemed like a real professional team.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Matt Striker is the biggest piece of shit ever, most of you all name reasons you hate 2010 and his name wasnt one for some reason


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Matt Striker is the biggest piece of shit ever, most of you all name reasons you hate 2010 and his name wasnt one for some reason



I don't like Stryker at all but he is nowhere near as bad as JBL/Lawler are these days. Not even close. Commentary is at an all time low right now with absolutely no signs of improving. Thank Vince and Kevin Dunn for it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Striker calls the moves and matches, which puts him well above many other commentators. You think he's a piece of shit? Go watch Larry Zbyszko. Or Todd Pettingill. Matt is what wrestling needs. Of course, Regal is the tops. But when was he never the best?

Not gonna bother with RAW. Hopefully I can get to NWO 2000 :mark:. As for the two matches, they are the IC title match and the tables match. I was shocked by how good Hardcore Holly was in the IC Title match. I mean Jericho was great per usual, but Holly played the dickish heel to perfection. And Chyna...well Chyna did not ruin it. Tables match was perfect. Best of its gimmick type.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not only does he call the moves but he also explains how they hurt the wrestlers. Little stuff like that make the commentary sound better.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Striker calls the moves and matches, which puts him well above many other commentators. You think he's a piece of shit? Go watch Larry Zbyszko. Or Todd Pettingill. Matt is what wrestling needs. Of course, Regal is the tops. But when was he never the best?
> 
> Not gonna bother with RAW. Hopefully I can get to NWO 2000 :mark:. As for the two matches, they are the IC title match and the tables match. I was shocked by how good Hardcore Holly was in the IC Title match. I mean Jericho was great per usual, but Holly played the dickish heel to perfection. And Chyna...well Chyna did not ruin it. Tables match was perfect. Best of its gimmick type.


Probelm with Striker was he was just too of a mark. Yes he called moves as they were, but he would just say random facts that had absolutes nothing to do with the match, and that casual had no clue what he was saying. What does John Morrison vs. Kaval have to do w/ Ken Patera and Bob backlund ? Why do we need to know about Gorgeous George while Kofi Kingston is bopping to the ring, I just plain thought he was unbearable

IMO Vince was just the perfect announcer for that mid 90s new generation/In Your House heavy era


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

So, I am currently rewatching some old Wrestlemania's in prepartion for WM30. I have watched WM16, 17, 22, 25, and 28 so far. The order from worst to best so far is 16, 25, 22, 28, 17. I am gonna just run down the matches real quick for WM 25, which I just watched. 

MITB - 4 stars

This was the opener after America The Beautiful was sung. I really enjoyed this match. Everyone played their role really well. Kane and Henry did some cool monster antics. Kofi and Shelton are always good for some athletic moments. Those two are amazing in these types of matches and having them there together did not disappoint. There was a great sequence where wrestler after wrestler was jumping into a group outside, which kept getting bigger and kept getting crazier. Shelton's dive from the top of the ladder onto the group was just a great spot. If anything, the only disappointment about this segment was that Hornswoggle got the last jump and watching those grown men have to fall for a fucking midget was disappointing to say the least. It should have ended with Benjamin's epic dive. Mark Henry slammed Kofi on the ladder, which was pretty cool.Shelton running up the three ladders to fight MVP for the title was pretty great as well. 

The only complaint I have, which was the same complaint at the time was that CM Punk won. Now, I know that this MITB win was what set him up to be heel and the extremely amazing feud with Jeff Hardy, but for this night, it was the wrong call. I am not the biggest Christian fan, but he had just returned and the crowd was fucking JACKED when he pulled that spot where he shoved one ladder back up to another to climb and win it. The crowd was ready for it and having Punk win did not do this match any favors. Oh, and the powerbomb on the ladder botch dragged it a bit. Overall, exactly what a match like this should be. Really fun.

FUCK KID ROCK. Now, I admit, that him coming out was fine, but dear god was it way too long. He should have played Bawitdaba and been done. Seriously, this whole thing just fucking killed the crowd. They wanted good wrestling and between Kid Rock and the opening song, the crowd and fans got stuck with 25 minutes of performances and like 15 minutes of wrestling. 

Divas Battle Royal - 0 stars
This match was a joke. Having Santina win was a slap in the face of the history of the divas at Wrestlemania. They should have got Lita and Trish to show up for such a big moment. Mickie James, Sunny, Beth Phoenix and more should have won. Also, the fact that none of the divas even seemed to notice that Santino was in there was a joke. The announcers tried to act surprised. This whole thing sucked major fucking donkey dick. Horrible.

I am not gonna count the Jericho match in here, but I am going to say that this was probably one of the worst first hours I have ever seen in Wrestlemania history. It was all filler and joke and singing. 

Jericho vs. Legends - 3.75 stars
This was way better than it had any right to be. I would honestly have rated it higher, but Piper and Snuka were slow and plodding. Although, this match really got exciting when Ricky Steamboat was left alone with Jericho. He showed he still had some fight in him. It was the kind of showing you often don't get from older wrestlers, but it was really good. For me, this was definitely one of the highlights of this Wrestlemania.

Now, the after match showdown with Mickey Rourke was fine. I respect him as an actor. The only problem I had was how damn long they dragged this thing out. He really took his time getting in the ring, as if he really wasn't sure if he was going to go through with it or not. 

Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy - 3.75 stars

This match had alot of great moments of brutality. Jeff Hardy did his usual antics of acting bat-shit insane. The missed leg drop by Jeff from the top of the ladder was a pretty insane spot. I thought Matt played a great role of trying to really hurt Jeff. He seemed really bitter and wanting to just torture Jeff. Although, I think these two just don't have great chemistry against each other. Also, Jeff Hardy did an amazing stunt where he went through two tables onto Matt and it looked pretty cool. This match had all the spots you have come to expect from these two TLC veterans. I was entertained, but this match still seems like a missed opportunity for something greater. Oh, and the twist of fate onto the open chair was a sick spot.

Also, Jeff should have won. The crowd really needed a good moment here and Jeff winning would have been it. Plus, this was Jeff Hardy's time to break out.

JBL vs. Rey Mysterio - 0 stars
Ugh, seriously. Why the fuck do I care about this shit. Mysterio wins before a match even can happen. I realize this was JBL retiring, but this was a dumb way to do it. Do they not want the crowd to get any build into something exciting?

HBK vs. Undertaker - 5 stars
Jesus Christ, I have watched this match just about more than any other match in history. I still love everything about it. Honestly, after two hours of this ppv, I find myself a little out of it and having seen this so much, I was a little distracted, but by the halfway point of this match, I was fully engaged again. The atmosphere, the icons, the crowd, top notch. When a top 10 list of all-time WWE matches happens, this match should always be on there. The chemistry these two have is just amazing and has been since their first encounter back in the 90's. It was amazing how they kept them apart for some damn long and this was the tremendous payoff. In fact, this is one of the few matches where the botch actually helped. When Undertaker hit the ground head first while diving outside, I thought he was legit hurt. When HBK starts trying to get him counted out, it was an emotionally enthralling moment. I remember being afraid that Taker would actually lose because he had bonked himself and wouldn't get back in the ring in time. This is when the match went into another level and the storytelling became perfect. Of course, there were a couple of false finishes, but when Undertaker pulled HBK back over the ropes for the tombstone, the match had been going on long enough and I thought that was it. 

Then HBK kicked out. You can hear every person in the arena scream in disbelief. I'm not joking when I say that it just might be one of the greatest false finishes of all time. Undertaker's face after was perfect. He didn't overact. He was just in shock. The deadman was in shock. Jim Ross had some of his greatest lines here. "I just had an out of body experience." "Chokeslams, Last Rides, Tombstones, and a kickout, and a kickout, and a kickout." This proved why Jim Ross was the greatest announcer. God damned perfect. This is WWE at it's peak.

The final tombstone where Taker caught HBK was a really great spot. It was a fantastic ending to one of the best Wrestlemania matches of all time. This deserves all the credit it still gets to this day and it will be one people study years from now when they are watching golden moments in WWE. 

John Cena vs. Big Show vs. Edge - 3 stars
This match is decent. It did a good job of getting the crowd excited, despite following the Taker vs. HBK match. It was fine and it was fun at times. The John Cena moment where he has both men on his shoulders was pretty cool, but this match was a big miss. Big Show had no reason being in this match. It should have been Edge vs. Cena in a one-on-one if anything. The build to this match was quite ridiculous as well. This was very paint-by-numbers and that's what hurt it. Also, Cena winning was sad, because Edge needed a big win here. He was on the cusp of stardom and a win would have been great. Not too much to say about this one. It's non-offensive, but it certainly isn't breaking any new ground and is forgettable. Also, this is exactly where people hating the booking of Cena comes from. He won by doing his finisher to BOTH men, which means he essentially beat both of them. He didn't need this win. It was pointless, but they booked it anyway.

Stone Cold and the HOF'ers come out. Stone Cold gets all the attention and his own spotlight, which make sense. Although, it's sad he didn't do a stunner at least. 

Randy Orton vs. Triple H - 2.5 stars

I came in wanting to change my mind on this match. I know the consensus and I remember the disappointment when watching it, but I haven't watched it since it aired. Although, it was still terrible. It was amazingly slow to get going anywhere. This match stayed in first gear almost the entire time. It was sad watching how boring it was with the stupid stipulation, when they should have beat each other to death in that ring. I didn't need blood, but even Hardy vs. Hardy was tougher and more intense a battle and those guys felt like they really disliked each other, while Trips vs. Orton felt so fucking boring. I kept waiting for it to get interesting, but it was boring. When it finally did get exciting in the least, it was over. 

Honestly, in retrospect, I don't think blaming this following Taker vs. HBK is accurate. This match just blew and these two sucked. The crowd seemed more hyped by the triple threat match and that actually did follow taker vs. hbk directly. This had no intensity, despite it being the best storyline-booked match on the card. Plus, the wrong man won again. Orton was finally coming into his own. 

Overall, I rate this Wrestlemania like a 3 stars. It was disappointment from beginning to end and was only saved by the GOATS in HBK and Undertaker. The sad part is, that the talent was there for some better matches and with some outcome changes, it could have improved as well. The decisions about what was worthy of WM25 were mind-boggling. It's so sad to see how Edge, Jeff, and Orton all had to lay down when it was the time for them to finally shine. 

I hate to play fantasy booker, but it would be so easy to improve this mania. Leave HBK vs. Taker. Have Jeff Hardy vs. John Cena and Triple H vs. Edge. Orton could have faced Mysterio or something. Suddenly, new, fresh and intriguing match-ups, instead of idiocy followed by idiocy. I remember feeling so happy after this Mania because of having witnessed HBK vs. Taker. I felt like I had seen something special that could never be replicated. However, after rewatching this again and not having that match to give me all the endorphins, I realize just how disappointed I am. When Jericho vs. Piper, Snuka, and Steamboat is one of the major highlights, then you know you've failed. Also, CM Punk winning in retrospect is cool, but it was still the wrong move at the time, because his first run was such a waste and Christian had the crowd in his hands. Anyway, I am going to watch WM26, 27, and 29 soon so that I can figure out of the last 5 years, how the ranking works, but WM25 is only worth it because of the history made by Michaels and the Deadman.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

People always rave about HBK/Taker(for good reason) but the WM 25 undercard was really good and had some fun gems on it


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok.....now I'm pumped for Mania. It's gonna be so fucking epic. If WWE really goes through with distance and have Bryan beat HHH and then win the title in the main event, it may just go down as one of the best booked title wins of all time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All of this. All of the crap that we have dealt with will be redeemed if Bryan makes history at Mania. I know it's 2014, but if Bryan wins the title at Mania, it would render all the suffering in 2013 to be worth it. Thus making 2013 truly one of the best years in company history.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:mark: at this announcement, DB could save wrestlemania folks


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm still shocked they did it. I gave up all hope on Bryan being in the title match at Mania since all plans basically pointed in the direction of HHH/Bryan. But holy shit, the way they pulled this off is just amazing. *****


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What if Cena turns heel and screws Bryan out of the WWE title at Mania? 

Unlikely but it's that time of year where we discuss Cena's possible heel turn :cena3


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> People always rave about HBK/Taker(for good reason) but the WM 25 undercard was really good and had some fun gems on it


I actually thought the undercard was the most entertaining part. The MiTB match was really fun to watch. Jeff vs. Matt had some good brutality too it. Also, when Jericho and Steamboat were in the ring it got really cool, but that was about it. I think I am disappointed in this mania mainly because the top of the card was so fucking disappointing. The title matches were lame and there was no reason for it to be. Not too mention that the diva battle royale was terrible and kid rock's placement was odd and took up too much time. There was the potential for something much greater from this card and when it was bad, it was really bad. I never felt like it got really really good, outside of those 40 minutes with HBK and Taker. 

Comparing it to 28, which is my personal favorite of the last 5 years. The top three matches delivered pretty good. While the undercard at WM28 was exceptionally weak, it went super strong at the end. Each match got so much time that you are excited for most of the night, while at WM25, it felt like it slowly built, peaked quickly, and died.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The build to Wrestlemania just went up a notch after tonight's Bryan/HHH segment. Good god, I can't wait. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

DOUBLE D BRY :mark: 

<o> \o/ <o> \o/


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

Hey everybody, hope my positivity is still welcomed around these parts? That RAW segment was amazing!!!   I couldn't be happier wrestling wise right now!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Matt Striker is a fucking irritating horrible little pretentious worm and possibly the #2 commentator I never want to hear again despite being forced to.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WWE saved Mania tonight. Holy shit.

Also, really solid matches from Rhodes Bros/Shield and Christian/Sheamus.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Pumped for Mania now. I'm getting one of my dream matches in Bryan/Trips AND Bryan's winning the title in the main event. There's absolutely no way they'd tease that possibility and not give it to the fans. Add Taker v Brock to the mix and that's enough to raise my optimism about the show. Then there's Cena/Wyatt. I'm not sure how good that's gonna be in terms of match quality but Bray's in it so I'm interested. The Andre battle royal should be fun and if not at least it gets people like Ziggler and Del Rio on the card in a semi-important match. Would be cool if Sami Zayn debuts in it. I'm guessing/hoping Cesaro wins.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

SKINS said:


> Probelm with Striker was he was just too of a mark. Yes he called moves as they were, *but he would just say random facts that had absolutes nothing to do with the match, and that casual had no clue what he was saying. What does John Morrison vs. Kaval have to do w/ Ken Patera and Bob backlund ? Why do we need to know about Gorgeous George while Kofi Kingston is bopping to the ring,* I just plain thought he was unbearable
> 
> IMO Vince was just the perfect announcer for that mid 90s new generation/In Your House heavy era


While I enjoyed Striker his references/facts were annoying, King & Cole going WTF? at him didn't make it much better.

Some people were pissed when Striker said the company was critical of his commentating, as if JR & King were doing it back then.
Why should the company reference things the audience won't know or care about? so a few fans at home get hyped cause they know it.

Reminds me of when people went wrestlers to bring back old themes.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

So the score between Sheamus and Christian is now like what? 30-0 for Sheamus? ( dating back since Sheamus's face turn in 2011)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

etrbaby said:


> So the score between Sheamus and Christian is now like what? 30-0 for Sheamus? ( dating back since Sheamus's face turn in 2011)


Christian did get that one pin in the EC though. :side:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Holy shit if Daniel Bryan wins the the title at Mania :mark :mark :mark:

But the lack of Summer Rae tonight was no good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Batista victory is going to sour so many fans. I'm not talking _"ones who post online & are smart fans blah blah"_ crap, but fans of any variety. To the point of even if they should give a damn anymore. I got the jaded side in the back of my head b/c I can never be sure @ WWE to breeze into a positive scenario, but honestly, they cannot throw the Danielson option out there w/o pulling the trigger. It's got to happen now. If not, then the full blown stupidity will be shown.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt
The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. possibly Daniel Bryan - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Wrestlemania XXX just got a whole lot better. I loved the "Occupy Raw" segment. Seeing Daniel Bryan, the people in the ring, and the crowd outside of the ring "Yes!" in unison was a beautiful sight. Triple H having enough and giving in to Bryan's demands was awesome, making it feel like this feud means something and could have a good payoff.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm thinking about making a list of my favorite matches of 2013 and watching them one by one. Not in a whole day obviously, I'd never do that, but just when I can and do some list & check-mark what I've already seen.

Watching CM Punk vs. John Cena from RAW 2/25/13.

Cena just put Punk in the Crossface and Cole said "AND HE'S GOT 'EM BACK INTO THE STF!" I'm like.. dude, the fuck? :lol There is a difference between the STF and the Crossface. And I can't help but think of Benoit whenever any wrestler does that move, even with Bryan, although the LeBell lock is slightly different.

I remember when Punk did the piledriver, and I practically lost my shit over it. That was pretty awesome.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I hope he doesn't turn into SuperBryan even more 

I guess it's less about the superman booking and more about the wrestler people complain about.

Pretty poor RAW besides the Shield tag match and the Occupy RAW segment.

Couldn't stay awake for the main event, though.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

You guys remember the thing at the 2008 Royal Rumble where Michael Buffer announced Shawn Michaels as "The Heartbreeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak Kid!"? :lol


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Sheamus/Christian SF was great. Pretty similar to Bryan/Sheamus Street Fight match two years ago. DAT BROGUE KICK :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Pumped for Mania now. I'm getting one of my dream matches in Bryan/Trips AND Bryan's winning the title in the main event. There's absolutely no way they'd tease that possibility and not give it to the fans


I admire your faith in WWE.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> You guys remember the thing at the 2008 Royal Rumble where Michael Buffer announced Shawn Michaels as "The Heartbreeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak Kid!"? :lol


They should really bring both Buffer brothers- Michael and Bruce to announce for some PPV main event :lol

Bruce would start with "IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTSSS TIIIIIIIIME" and introduce the challenger and then Michael would introduce the champion and finish with "Lets Get Ready to Rumble" :lmao


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> Bryan's winning the title in the main event.


That's cute :HHH2

Call me cynical (that's not a name change request btw) but I think he's being added solely to prevent their main event being a disaster. I don't think they care that the match itself would blow, more that the crowd would destroy it. So 15 minutes of Bryan chants & 2 minutes of deafening boos at the end > 17 minutes of boos.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just wanted to say Fuck off Cena for that 'promo' on Bray Wyatt. Knob.

IMO.

Oh, i thought Heyman did an excellent job selling the magnitude of 'The Streak'.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just finished watching WCW Souled Out & SuperBrawl 2000 for the first time.

Man are those shows truly awful fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"If you look up at me, you will see a friend. If you look down at me, you will see an enemy. And if you look me square in the eye, you will see a God."

Loved that from Bray.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena & Hogan together was the best thing WWE could have given me. Too good for words.


----------



## BruiserBrody (Jun 10, 2009)

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/nwa-great-american-bash-88/#.Ux8AFoUm-So

The NWA puts on a solid night of action with the first major bout between Lex Luger and Ric Flair. Friendship explodes as Dusty Rhodes clashes with Barry Windham. The Fantastics and The Midnight Express try and steal the show with another great exhibition in tag team excellence. A 10 man tag man triple decker cage match is a spectacle if nothing else. And the event kicks off with Sting and Nikita Koloff battling the Horsemen in a battle of attrition. 

I do my best to add the backstory to each match to better improve your appreciation for why each contest was signed.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I didn't have a problem with Cena's promo, it's fuel for Wyatt's fire. Cena cutting that type of promo is proving Wyatt's point, adding substance to his claims and giving him more ammo for later segments. If anything, Cena's style of promo will only enhance the feud.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, Cena and Hogan in the same ring, one of the best Bray Wyatt promos yet, Sheamus/Christian finally hitting it right, Shield/Rhodes which is self-explanatory, Taker and Heyman promo, and the badassness of the Occupy Raw segment (which saved WrestleMania by itself to be quite honest).

Yup. Easily the best Raw of the year so far overall.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Flux said:


> I didn't have a problem with Cena's promo, it's fuel for Wyatt's fire. Cena cutting that type of promo is proving Wyatt's point, adding substance to his claims and giving him more ammo for later segments. If anything, Cena's style of promo will only enhance the feud.


I didn't have a problem with it either but I couldn't help but think if HHH cut a similar promo people would hate on him for it and say he's trying to bury Bray.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IWC double standards for ya', everywhere you turn there's another example staring you in the face.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's just because Hunter is getting ridiculous heat these days, GOAT heeling it up .

I liked the idea of Cena taking Wyatt not so seriously as well because I feel that it just contributes to the overall contrasting nature of the story arc with Cena being the false idol and Wyatt being the righteous saviour and whatnot, but maybe I just look too far into fucking WWE .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just out of interest, is Vader's son still with WWE?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Nah, he got released some time last year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Nah, he got released some time last year.


Ah, thanks mate. After watching Vader's Timeline, just wondered.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Is Goldberg's match against Jericho his best one in WWE? I seriously can't find any Goldberg match that I enjoy


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

His WWE best is either that Jericho match or the WHC match on Raw against Mark Henry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Re-watched a couple 2014 matches just now. One went down and off my list, the other went up and on to the list. Cesaro/Orton and Shield/Wyatts II are the matches in question. I still think Cesaro/Orton was good, bordering on very good, but it fell down a bit from the first viewing. Shield/Wyatts II on the other hand went up. The first time I watched it I thought something felt really off about it but I didn't get that this time. There were still some clunky moments that felt off but as a whole it worked much better for me on the re-watch and I enjoyed the hell out of it. 



Spoiler: updated list



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
4. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
5. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
6. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
7. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
8. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish they had different announce teams throughout Wrestlemania. Get JR back, maybe even Ventura.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All I wish is they do Callbackmania all around the show. That's all for me. It's WrestlefuckingMania THIRTY, they shouldn't go wrong with that suggestion. Obviously have the show's own moments, but callbacks are where it's at too.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

So I watched many Edge matches recently for old times sake, this is my ranking for his top 10 one on one matches in WWE ( not single, but any one on one match).

HM : Edge/Angle cage, Edge/Benoit July(or june) 2007 Smackdown, Edge/Rey june 2009 smackdown, Edge vs Jeff Hardy ladder, Edge vs HBK street fight 2007, Edge vs Orton Vengeance 2004, Edge vs Cena LMS, Edge vs Eddie Unforgiven

10- Edge vs Randy Orton on RAW in 2007, great match, great performance by both trying to one up each-other with heel moves, Orton got cheered more which I could totally see why at the time he wasn't as hated as Edge,I'd say it was the right move of Edge going over considering he was chosen to go lead Smackdown a week later with Taker being out.

9-Edge vs HBK street fight on RAW 2005, i loved both their street fight matches from 2005 and 2007, but I have the first one a bit higher.

8- Edge vs Chris Benoit Last Man Standing match Backlash 2005

7 (tie)-Edge vs Kurt Angle , Backlash 2002, I consider this one to be one of Edge's best performances as a babyface, AND, vs Angle Judgment day 2002, which had Edge's hair on the line.

6- Edge vs Eddie Guerrero, NO DQ Smackdown match, the match was like 80% all Eddie, but it was still an amazing match, but Eddie did a great job the entire match, glad he got a standing ovation when it was all over.

5-Edge vs John Cena TLC, Edge showcased why he was the master of TLC , doing many impressive stuff with tables, ladders and chairs.

4-Edge vs Mick Foley Hardcore WM 22, This is was soo awesome, action packed 15min match, even Lita on the ringside served as a huge purpose, fantastic.

3-Edge vs Undertaker WM 24, I still consider this to be the 3rd best match of the streak easily behind the two HBK matches,fantastic wrestling, fantastic build up during the entire match to the great ending, slow start till awesome finish sequence.

2-Edge vs Matt Hardy Steel Cage match, Fan-fucking-tastic , absolutly brilliant performance by both, and by Lita as well!

1-Edge vs Undertaker HIAC, I really think this match deserves more credit , I have it as a top 3 HIAC match ever, great showing by both, loved how they made TLC inside HIAC, Edge's match vs Taker's match in ONE MATCH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nothing beats Edge/Foley as far as I know on Edge one-on-one stuff. Shout-outs to Edge/Matt Cage, Edge/Taker WM and HIAC, Edge/Angle JD and Edge/Benoit SD July 07, but Edge/Foley is the cream of the crop for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

etrbaby said:


> 1-Edge vs Undertaker HIAC, I really think this match deserves more credit , I have it as a top 3 HIAC match ever, great showing by both, loved how they made TLC inside HIAC, Edge's match vs Taker's match in ONE MATCH.


It really does too IMO. Probably 4th on my 'Best HIAC' list. Love it.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

etrbaby said:


> 1-Edge vs Undertaker HIAC, I really think this match deserves more credit , I have it as a top 3 HIAC match ever, great showing by both, loved how they made TLC inside HIAC, Edge's match vs Taker's match in ONE MATCH.


It gets a ton of praise when it's brought up. Just doesn't get brought up that much. Great match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

IDK why Edge/Cena TLC is praised so much, its OK at best and I like it a whole hell lot more than others in here 

My edge top 10 would look like this, I'm adding in tags though because that is where I felt Edge succeeded the most 

1: vs Hardy UF
2: TLC III
3: MITB WM 21
4: TLC I
5: vs Eddie SD 
6: vs Foley WM 22 
7: ONS 2006 tag match 
8: vs Taker WM 24 
9: vs Flair Raw 2006 TLC
10: Edge/Taker HIAC


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Edge/Cena TLC I liked it myself. Is it contrived, spotty and whatnot? Yeah. But think about it - Edge, Cena and TLC. Did you SERIOUSLY expect a Benoit/Jericho'esque cerebral masterpiece out of those elements combined? The crowd's reaction was the story itself - Edge had it all on his side, and Cena was far from the favorite, and for one, actually the underdog, since it was Edge in his hometown, in his premiere match, whose apart from once (and that once was a Tag Team 4-Way) had never lost before, against his biggest opponent who had never even been in one and that had to win to guarantee his spot on Raw. I simply enjoyed it, and some of the spots were cool - I liked Cena's FU to the ladder to Edge myself. Oh, and Cena and Edge's big tall ladder bumps were nasty, especially the (in)famous FU through two tables. Take it for one: you might've not gotten Cena's superb in-ring work in 07's Main Event scene if not for this match


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Top Edge Matches:

1. Vs Foley WM 22 ****1/2
2. Vs Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005 ****1/2
3. w/ Mick Foley vs Terry Funk/Tommy Dreamer ONS 2006 ****1/2
4. Vs The Undertaker HiaC SS 2008 ****1/4
5. Vs The Undertaker WM 24 ****1/4
6. Vs Eddie Guerrero No DQ Smackdown 2002 ****1/4
8. Vs Matt Hardy Street Fight Raw 2005 ****
9. w/ Rey Mysterio vs Benoit/Angle No Mercy 2002 ****
10. w/ Christian vs Hardy Boyz Ladder Match No Mercy 1999 ****

I kept it to only singles/tag matches, not counting those big 6 man TLC matches. Wasn't a fan of anything Edge did post 2005 bar the two Taker matches, and those were mostly cause of Taker.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That squash of Matt Hardy - whenever that took place - should be on there. Great heel performance, and Hardy sold the mugging like a champ.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> That squash of Matt Hardy - whenever that took place - should be on there. Great heel performance, and Hardy sold the mugging like a champ.


That was at Summerslam and you're absolutely right. One of the best 5 minute matches ever. THE HATE :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

You mean post 06? Because 06 had some of his best matches ever, one of which at #1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> You mean post 06? Because 06 had some of his best matches ever, one of which at #1



I really only liked what he did for those two PPV's with Foley in 2006, the rest of the year including the Cena feud just isn't my cup of tea. Leave it to Mick fuckin Foley at over 40 years of age with his body completely broken down to put on two ****1/2 matches. 

Edge's best year was either 2002 or 2005 I think. Though he NEVER had a year like Christians 2009. 

Who are the guys who Foley has given a career match to (not the unanimous Best match of their career, just something that could honestly be considered their best)

1. Shawn Michaels (MindGames)
2. Triple H (definitely his best, Royal Rumble 2000 SF)
3. Randy Orton (definitely his best, Backlash 2004)
4. Edge (WM 22)
5. The Rock (I Quit match Royal Rumble 1999)
6. Sting (FCA Beach Blast 1992)
7. The Undertaker (KotR 1996, KotR 1998, RotT 1997)
8. Vader (WCW Saturday Night)
9. Austin (OTE 1998)

Yep, Mick Foley is pretty great.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Most consider OTE 98 as one of Austin's best matches, rigbt? That's another guy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I can honestly only name 2 Austin matches I like better than Austin/Foley OTE 98. Austin/Bret and Austin/Angle, maybe Rockk/Austin WM 19 but I could definitely put OTE 98 over it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Most consider OTE 98 as one of Austin's best matches, rigbt? That's another guy.



You're absolutely right, I would only put the Angle and Hart matches slightly ahead of it, but unquestionably one of his best matches. Good one.

We only need 1 more guy to have a nice round 10 main event stars who had a career match with Michael Francis Foley.

The other thing that should be said is how IMPORTANT all these matches were to these guys. It wasn't just a random match that was great, no, every single one of these guys had their career impacted in a VERY positive way by tying up with the Micker.

Shawn Michaels

-Was seen as a pretty boy, not rough or rugged or a serious bad ass. Mind Games changed all that, people knew Shawn could have one hell of a match, but they didn't realize Shawn could have one hell of a fight as well.

Triple H

-was helped by Foley not once but TWICE. When they first started mixing it up in 1997, Hunter was considered a mid level guy and a "good little worker". His matches with Foley in 1997 put him on the map (Hunters actual words) and made people see he was an all around talent capable of greatness. Seen as a budding star after feuding with Foley. Fast forward to 2000, Triple H's star was undoubtedly rising and he was obviously seen as a major player as he had the WWE title. His matches with Mick certified him not only as a main event guy, but as a MAJOR star and a world class worker (which he was in 2000). Triple H is one guy who Foley flat out MADE, make no mistake about it.

Randy Orton

-was going by "The Legend Killer" but that was really just a gimmick until his Backlash match with Foley. Foley elevated Orton from a budding star to a future world champ, after having his best match ever with Foley, Orton would go on to become the youngest WHC in WWE history just a few short months later

Edge

- same deal as Orton, Seen as a budding star before facing Foley, a certified main eventer after facing Foley and getting the best match of his career.

The Rock

-The Rock was not known to be vicious or sadistic until facing Foley. That's a problem when you are supposed to be a heel. Mick is probably the only guy capable of keeping Rocky a heel in 1999. He showed the people another side to the Rock, and took unbelievable punishment. Rock would go on to Main Event his first WM just a month after his feud with Foley ended.

Sting

-Had grown stale by this point in WCW. Sting suffered from the same problems as HBK did in 1996 before facing Foley, that he wasn't a legit tough guy. That all changed after Beach Blast. Stings career was reinvigorated and no one would doubt his toughness afterwards.

The Undertaker

-had never had a truly great opponent to have a feud with in his career. Mick not only gave him that, but he gave him a series of matches that remain among Takers best ever. My personal favorite feud ever, and one where Foley was benefitted by working with Taker just as much if not more than Taker was. You cannot say that Taker made Mick Foley, you CAN undoubtedly say that Taker made Mankind through. 

Vader

-his aura of brutality was increased exponentially after feuding with Foley. The true benefit was never really seen as this feud was cut short due to politics. Shame. 

Austin

-the first opponent for Anyone after winning the WWE title for the first time is absolutely crucial. Enter Mick, who got Austin over even more than he already was as a slug it out brawler who will never stop fighting. These two had an absolute war at OTE 1998, it remains among he best that either guy ever had.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Yup. Easily the best Raw of the year so far overall.


If that's the best RAW of the year, then it's been one bad year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Honestly I don't think there's any way in hell that Foley match from WCWSN is even remotely close to Vader's career match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The only people I can for sure say had their best match with Mick would be Orton and HHH tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a good showing for Vader being a beast. Demolishing Foley's nose & whatnot. Would Vader's career match even come from a bout he had in the United States? Gosh the prospects of getting my answer here are unlimited.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> So, Cena and Hogan in the same ring, one of the best Bray Wyatt promos yet, Sheamus/Christian finally hitting it right, Shield/Rhodes which is self-explanatory, Taker and Heyman promo, and the badassness of the Occupy Raw segment (which saved WrestleMania by itself to be quite honest).
> 
> Yup. Easily the best Raw of the year so far overall.


Raw was horrid brother
Vader best match was obviously summerslam 96 :hbk


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I love it when Jerry Lawler comes out with a fantastic fact. This weeks' effort: "But you know Brock Lesnar has never been in the ring with The Undertaker". It's bad when Cole has to step in and add "...at Wrestlemania".


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> I love it when Jerry Lawler comes out with a fantastic fact. This weeks' effort: "But you know Brock Lesnar has never been in the ring with The Undertaker". It's bad when Cole has to step in and add "...at Wrestlemania".


 I thought last week's error regarding the Bryan/Batista match was bad but this just takes it to a whole new level.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> I thought last week's error regarding the Bryan/Batista match was bad but this just takes it to a whole new level.


He also did this weird po-faced 'Looking into space' look when The Undertaker was doing his promo. Was quite funny.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lawler needs to fuck off at this point. He's useless. Props to Cole for fixing that idiotic error.

I'm glad all the negativity surrounding Mania is finally gone. We not only get Bryan/HHH but also Bryan in the main event. Punk probably wants to kill himself seeing how Bryan has made it into the main event with the snap of a finger while he keeps getting shafted despite crying about wanting it for so long.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Would Vader's career match even come from a bout he had in the United States? Gosh the prospects of getting my answer here are unlimited.


I'd have it as SuperBrawl III easily. I think it's possible Vader had nearly ten matches from the US better than anything he did outside of it, tbh. Vader/Sting SBIII is close to being a top 5 US match of the 90s for me (''close to being'' could be removed from that).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader/Steamboat HUMAN CAGE is probably the best Vader match I've ever seen .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I havent seen vader/sting yet ( probably will on the network) but vader/flair starrcade would be my pick


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd have it as SuperBrawl III easily. I think it's possible Vader had nearly ten matches from the US better than anything he did outside of it, tbh. Vader/Sting SBIII is close to being a top 5 US match of the 90s for me (''close to being'' could be removed from that).


I'm rather large on Vader's Japan runs. Both prior to WCW & following WWF.

We still have our synergy tho considering it was the White Castle of Fear strap match which popped into my head as the first classic Vader match I could think of. So...



DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Vader/Steamboat HUMAN CAGE is probably the best Vader match I've ever seen .


HUMAN CAGE


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone know where I can find Flair/Kerry from Hawaii? It's been years since I've seen it and I was raving about it to a friend the other day which made me want to see it really badly. All I can find are parts of it on Youtube.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> The only people I can for sure say had their best match with Mick would be Orton and HHH tbh


I wouldn't even say HHH. Orton, certainly, but Hunter has had matches with Austin, Jericho, Benoit in one way or another, that were just as good as the MGS Street Fight. NWO 01, Fully Loaded 2000, Powertrip Tag on RAW, WM20 etc.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nah imo the street fight is the best match in BOTH mens careers for sure. I had HHH/HBK/Benoit at the full 5 too but that has since gone down leaving just HHH/Foley as the only 5 star match for both men, watched it the other day and its just perfect.

Top 5 Trips match would look like this 

1: vs Mick Street fight *****
2: vs HBK vs Benoit WM 20 ****3/4 
3: vs Jericho LMS ****3/4 
4: vs Rock Iron man ****1/2 
5: vs Mick HIAC ****1.2 

4 of 5 in 2000


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I still need to rewatch Foley/HHH from RR but as it is based on my memories of it, it probably wouldn't even make my top 10 match for either man. Prefer the HIAC match even.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

SMITTY said:


> Nah imo the street fight is the best match in BOTH mens careers for sure. I had HHH/HBK/Benoit at the full 5 too but that has since gone down leaving just HHH/Foley as the only 5 star match for both men, watched it the other day and its just perfect.
> 
> Top 5 Trips match would look like this
> 
> ...


Personally,

Jericho/HHH, Fully Loaded 2000 - *****
Foley/HHH, Royal Rumble 2000 - ****3/4
Benoit/HBK/HHH, WrestleMania XX - ****3/4
Austin/HHH, No Way Out 2001 - ****1/2 (saw it recently, dropped from the last time I watched it years ago)
Power Trip/Benoit-Jericho, RAW 2001 - ****1/2 (also dropped, but still my favourite to sit down and watch. easily digestible)

January 2000 up until May 2001 is just godly. The perfect combination of a guy being on top of their game, and having a great selection of opponents to work with.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Honestly I don't think there's any way in hell that Foley match from WCWSN is even remotely close to Vader's career match.


Vaders best match IMO is Starrcade 1993 vs Flair. SuperBrawl and Human Cage are equally excellent. Probably a stretch to list that Saturday Night match as one of Vaders best, but it is surely the most brutal match he ever had. That feud never came close to the heights it could have, it could have gone for another 6 months and 3-4 matches easily.

I'm not that big on their Halloween Havoc match, but the OTHER Texas Death match they had on World Wide is excellent.

I stand by all the other 8 guys I listed as having a career match with Foley.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Does anyone else hate Triple H/Rock from Fully Loaded 98 as much as me?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starting the show off with Hogan. Man, if I was watching live I'd be very tempted to just turn the channel lol.

What. The fuck. Is Lawler wearing?

Did he just call them Nympho Hulkamaniacs? Oh, MEMPHO. My bad... .

:lmao Hogan claims to be watching the WWE NETWORK. Can he even turn on a computer?

What's this? Hogan talking about slamming Andre and didn't mention his weight? Damn, it's always hilarious to listen to the number grow over the years .

Hogan's big WM announcement is... a 30 man over the top rope battle royal in memorial to Andre? I actually quite like that. AND it gets a bunch of people on the WM card who normally wouldn't be there (BIG PYADAY). Can we expect THE BIG SHOW to win this then?

I thought it was a 30 man match? Now it's 3? MAKE UP YOUR MIND HOGAN!

:lmao Cena's heat was a bigger pop than Hogan got coming out to the ring. THEY HATE CENA MORE THAN THEY LOVE HOGAN. 

SuperCena? More like SuckUpCena. "I LIKES TEH ENERGY IN TEH CROWD IT FELZ GUD" Shut the fuck up. And stop sucking off Hogan. Guy should fuck off. Like you. Bugger off to Jeff's new promotion...

Is there like, a point to any of this? Ahh, Cena wants to enter the match.

WYATT FAMILY~!

Great, great promo by Bray. Probably his best. Mainly because it like, makes sense for the most part. His other promos were typically just him spouting weird shit that had no point. Here it was just, perfect.

Cena responded by... being typical Cena, which is the worst thing you could do as a response to Bray fucking Wyatt :lmao.

No battle royal for Cena, cos he wants BRAY WYATT AT WM!!! 

Cena Vs Rowan... meh, I'm gonna give it a skip.

Christian Vs Sheamus is happening AGAIN? And there is gonna be a stipulation? This CANNOT be a WM match now, right? RIGHT? Still, I'm looking forward to the match :mark:.

STEPHANIE FAP MCMAHON. And that annoying guy she hangs out with. I think she said something.

NEW AGE OUTLAWS. :lmao at HHH looking on while Billy Gunn hugs and kisses Steph.

Usos Vs RybAxel? Urgh, thank fuck for the fast forward button.

THE SHIELD :mark:. KANE books a tag match for Reigns & Rollins Vs Cody & Goldust :mark:. SHIELD threaten Kane :mark:.

Big E Vs Swagger? I'll watch cos I wanna see where this goes with the REAL AMERICANS. Oh for fucks sake, the match hasn't even started and JBL is bitching about STIRING THE POT because Cole brings up the REAL ISSUES BETWEEN THE REAL AMERICANS and JBL acts like nothing ever happened. One of the many reasons I fucking HATE the commentary. Oh god and they won't drop it either.

I'm finding Big E watchable these days, when he's against someone I like. His stuff with Swagger and CESARO of course has been a lot of fun.

:lmao Swagger wants Cesaro to interfere, Cesaro doesn't, Swagger bitches and gets rolled up for 3. While Cesaro laughs :lmao.

AAAUUUURGGGGHHHH YOU'RE DRIVING ME CRAZY!!! :lmao

ZEB MAKES THEM SHAKE HANDS.

:lmao at Cesaro squeezing Swagger's hand :lmao. BOSS.

UNDERTAKER UP NEXT :mark:. 

Seriously. Cole. JBL. Lawler. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU PATHETIC SHITTY CUNTS. If there was ever a time to just sit back and NOT TALK, it was during THE UNDERTAKER'S ENTRANCE.

So what do they TALK about during his entrance? Well, Cole BURIES LESNAR, JBL jerks off over the fact Lesnar won the UFC title, then Cole brings up TWITTER, and Lawler doesn't say anything until Undertaker actually gets to the ring :lmao. And when he does he fucks up :lmao.

Lawler: "BROCK LESNAR HAS NEVER FACED THE UNDERTAKER BEFORE."

Cole and JBL: "AT WRESTLEMANIA!!!!!"

HEYMAN~!

Heyman did a wonderful job of putting over THE STREAK and trying to make Lesnar seem like a threat.

I remember reading yesterday a bunch of speculation about UNDERTAKER and what he was coming to Raw to say. Apparently he was making an announcement, and of course everyone was saying "OMG HE'S ANNOUNCING WM 30 WILL BE HIS LAST MATCH" because every year for around the last 7 years, people have been saying the same damn thing lol. What DID he say? Well, nothing really beyond "Rest in Peace" :lmao. Suck it, stupid people.

Super hyped for their WM match btw.

Cody & GOLDUST Vs Rollins & REIGNS time :mark:. 

WOW at that flip spot from Rollins. How the FUCK did he do a flip out of THAT? :mark:

:mark: at that double dive spot from Cody & Goldie :mark:. Despite the fact these 2 teams have faced each other a bunch last year, we are getting something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT again tonight. Love it.

:lmao Lawler fucks up AGAIN.

CM Punk chant? Fuck off Memphis lol.

:lmao at Cody slapping his leg BEFORE his kick connects with Reigns :lmao.

SPEAR TO GOLDUST looked botched, but holy fuck Reigns actually managed to save it in the end!!!

Awesome finish to the match :mark:. THE SHIELD are back baby!!! I seriously hope they don't break them up yet. They can go for so much longer together still. Don't fuck up a good thing WWE .

AJ LEE :mark:. Shame she's in a shitty tag match against 2 useless bitches and a crappy partner. Time to skip, but not the cute kind of skip that AJ does.

AJ lost? Again? Fucks sake lol.

RENEE :mark:. Drooling over LL Cool J and that white dude. :lmao at Cool J hitting on the Bellas. :lmao they did a better interview than half the roster.

DANIEL BRYAN TIME :mark:. 

THE YES MOVEMENT~!

So they are made up of the ring crew, catering staff and ACTUAL FANS. Cool.

:lmao the YES MOVEMENT has more people in it than a TNA House Show 8*D.

Cool visual, anyone tuning in for the first time or something would see this and instantly think "this guy is a fucking star".

HHH: "GIVE IT TO BE CHUBBY" :lmao

:lmao at a whole TWO MEMBERS OF SECURITY showing up to save the day. :lmao at them looking at each other and just buggering off. FUCK THAT SHIT :lmao.

ANGRY STEPHANIE IS A FAPABLE STEPHANIE. You know, more so.

So nobody is moving, and security failed to help. What's next? SANDOW! I'm sure he'll help...

HHH finally agrees to the WM match. BUT BRYAN AIN'T DONE!!!

Bryan wants a title shot too :mark:. This segment kinda reminds me of an early Raw in 2000, when Rock had the entire roster aside from DX threaten to walk out if Foley didn't get hired back and recieve a title shot at the RR.

:lmao SECURITY FINALLY DO SOMETHING... BY HOLDING BACK HHH :lmao.

HHH AGREES! BRYAN GETS HHH, THEN IF HE WINS, HE GETS ADDED TO THE TITLE MATCH!!! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

So what match will Sheamus Vs Christian have? FCA? 2/3 Falls? Or MEMPHIS street fight. In MEMPHIS. No idea which could win...

Christian Vs Sheamus in a MEMPHIS STREET FIGHT :mark:.

Did... did they silence Christian's theme music? I can barely hear it lol.

THAT TORNADO DDT :mark:.

KENDO STICK SHOTS~!

HOLY FUCK at Sheamus' back following the Kendo Stick shots.

Fight for the Kendo Stick was great :lmao. KENDO STICK SHOTS AGAIN~!

KICK OUT OF WHITE NOISE~!

BIG IRISH CURSE~!

FROG SPLASH ON CHAIRS~!

THAT FUCKING FINISH~! :mark:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I don't care that they keep booking this match, I'd rather watch greatness like this every week than a fucking Miz/Extra Divas match or some bullshit.

Batista & Orton Vs Big Show & DANIEL BRYAN. Nah, I love Bryan but I'm skipping through this. Too much shit (Orton & Batista).

:lmao caught the end of the match, with Batista landing THE WORST SPEAR I think I've ever seen :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Id like to echo that sentiment, people need to stop bitching about Christian/Sheamus wrestling each other every week. It's always atleast very good and two times now it's been great. It beats a pointless Matadores or Miz match by a country mile. So, ahem, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

It is a pretty bad way to build a feud though :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Probably a stretch to list that Saturday Night match as one of Vaders best, but it is surely the most brutal match he ever had.


IDK he had a match where his eye popped out and continued wrestling for over ten minutes.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That feud never came close to the heights it could have, it could have gone for another 6 months and 3-4 matches easily.


But they had a bunch of matches across TV, and some house show stuff even made tape.  Hell the match where Foley loses his ear is available in full IIRC. The amnesia bullshit ruined the actual feud, though. Awful, awful, awful shit. 



William Murderface said:


> Does anyone else hate Triple H/Rock from Fully Loaded 98 as much as me?


Is that the strap match? I remember it blowing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont enjoy seeing the same match so many times, if they are going to have a match at mania it must have some crazy stip for it to pique my interest


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Does anyone else hate Triple H/Rock from Fully Loaded 98 as much as me?


I think I told you this already, but I thought it was utter shit too, as well as the rest of the show. This is evidence that the folks in the Attitude Era sometimes were simply not very talented. Some of them such as Vader were hindered because of dumb restrictions, but Rock and Triple H were just terrible wrestlers back then.

2000 however is a different story. Both guys are doing pretty well so far from what I've seen. Although Rock's match with Big Show at NWO 2000 was very, very bad. Something about that PPV for Rock. His 2001 match with Angle sucked too, and the 2002 match with Taker was near DUD level. Don't know what KillaCal sees in that bore.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I've said before that I wasn't too into the *Bryan/Orton Street Fight* from RAW last year (June 24, 2013). Well, I popped in the Best of RAW & Smackdown DVD, and totally changed my mind.

Have no idea why I wasn't so into it before, but it was really good. So much goodness. Loved Bryan alternately kicking the shit out of Orton & beating him with the stick. That was sublime. Lots of great counters, like Orton catching Bryan and throwing him into the table, and catching him & powerbombing him, etc. 

Everything moved like a well-oiled machine, and there were so many smart counters. 

Also totally didn't remember Orton shaking Bryan's hand at the end there. Nice way to further Bryan's legitimacy/elevate him even further, when he was on that hot streak.

****


Also watched the *Punk/Ryback TLC match* from RAW last year. This was my first time seeing it, and it was really good! That's the best that Ryback has ever looked, I think (that I've seen). Good Lord did Punk take some tough shit there, though. That table botch looked atrocious. I think that the botches actually helped make it look like even more of a dog fight. Thought Punk was great here. Loved the ending image.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ Check his matches out w/ Cena/Bryan/Sheamus on smackdown, and the raw bryan match as well


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/Bryan Street Fight ruled. Calling it a typical WWE-style hardcore match does it an injustice. Truly felt like Bryan's entry point to being the perma-main eventer that he is now.

Punk/Ryback was the second biggest carryjob of 2013, behind a huge one in Cesaro/Kingston. Ryback nearly ruined the match with his shitty selling and poor coordination, but Punk essentially made his own story out of nothing. CM Punk in gimmick matches :mark:. CM Punk in any matches :mark:

As for the Vader talk, the strap match is probably my #1 for him. Inoki match may be #2. May very well be the best retirement match ever. Muhammad Inoki (no, he's not Antonio anymore)!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, it's a total typical WWE gimmick match. Nothing worth seeing.

Who would have guessed Terry Funk vs Dustin Rhodes would be the most embarrassing thing about WCW Uncensored 2000? And a Harris Brothers match happened right before it. Baffling. In better news, I started Beach Blash 1992 and yeah, the feelings I have just from the start basically acknowledge it as what I consider my favorite PPV. Tons of excitement & even more fun. What a brilliant time to be a wrestling fan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How on Neptune did Terry Funk fail?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He tried to make a Texas Bullrope match into an I Quit match mid-way. There was a guy in a chicken suit who interfered and had sound effects playing as he roamed around. Ehhhh mid-match promos too. Some crummy "I don't give a damn about my performance" work. A gem of despair.

Hogan vs Flair strap match main event ending w/a pinfall was the topper upon all this. Nevermind the fact that Hogan wearing red & yellow vs Ric Flair was main eventing a PPV in the year 2000. It magically became 1994 again. Only, really, really, really awful.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Tried a search for relevant tags and nothing came up, so I apologise if this has been talked about ad nauseam.

For the past while (whether it's linked to the higher focus upon workrate within matches or not, I'm not sure, yet the timing feels similar), I've noticed that the wrestlers are now more prone to abandoning the hardcam. In previous matches they would always play "to the right" as to ensure that their facials and movements are all captured for the TV audience and those in the bleachers watching the Titantron. However, wrestlers now seem to be taunting to the opposite side (back to hardcam) and are more free in the facing direction when they slap on a chinlock or other submission/rest hold.

Most notable of this change has been Sheamus - a guy whose chest clubbing taunt and offence rang viciously into the hardcam yet now seems completely opposed. Perhaps my memory of him is slightly hazy yet it only seems since his return that he's changed how he portrays himself toward the camera setups. For instance, both in the Elimination Chamber and on Raw his back was to the hardcam during his taunts while, a most obvious example, he chest clubbed a rope-hung Christian in an awkward spot that ensured the cameraman on floor had a hard task trying to capture the move as well as the welts on Christian's chest.


I'm not against this change, it hasn't offered much negativity apart from the aforementioned Christian/Sheamus spot, yet it most certainly feels weird witnessing a change in how superstars have done business for all these years. Equally, seeing the back of a wrestler on offence, and the possible inability to see the FIP deliver his facials is another quality that may be affecting my viewing. All that said, my viewing mileage is a lot lower than most here and this may all just be a somewhat selective appraisal but I'm almost certain its a change in policy rather than my own take.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching Royal Rumble 2008 on the Network.

Piper/Snuka still is the best part. :lmao That whole fucking ring, even Undertaker, was watching them fight. CM Punk practically marking out & laughing in the background was even funnier.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Was Fella/Ratface from the last Raw any good? Because on paper, it sounds like a lot of fun.



funnyfaces1 said:


> As for the Vader talk, the strap match is probably my #1 for him. Inoki match may be #2. May very well be the best retirement match ever. Muhammad Inoki (no, he's not Antonio anymore)!


It wasn't his retirement match, though. :kobe7


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Seriously. Cole. JBL. Lawler. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU PATHETIC SHITTY CUNTS. If there was ever a time to just sit back and NOT TALK, it was during THE UNDERTAKER'S ENTRANCE.
> 
> So what do they TALK about during his entrance? Well, Cole BURIES LESNAR, JBL jerks off over the fact Lesnar won the UFC title, then Cole brings up TWITTER, and Lawler doesn't say anything until Undertaker actually gets to the ring :lmao. And when he does he fucks up :lmao.
> 
> ...


 Couldnt agree more. During the entrance i was saying the same thing "Fucking stop fucking talking for fuck sake". JBL always same the same thing, wanks off over Brock's UFC win over Couture lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK he had a match where his eye popped out and continued wrestling for over ten minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That was when Vader fractured his orbital bone right? What match was that?

I don't know, there is just something deeply unsettling to me about a 400+ pound monster teeing off on another guys face, breaking his nose and cheekbone, while the other guy just let's him do it. I have that match on DVD and I've watched it a few times and every time when I hear that "crack" of Foleys nose breaking I have to look away. Having your nose broken can be downright unbearably painful.

That's why I was so surprised when I saw Cena/Lesnar for the first time. For WWE to have a PG, kid friendly show, and allow Lesnar to just physically maul Cena like that while John boy just laid down and took it was incredibly shocking. I can only imagine what those 5 year old Cena fans in the front row must have been thinking. That would have scared the crao out of me at that age.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That was when Vader fractured his orbital bone right? What match was that?


Think that was the Stan Hansen match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That was when Vader fractured his orbital bone right? What match was that?


Not sure about the orbital bone actually breaking, but I only just found out now that Vader's nose was goddamn broken when Hansen swung the bullrope around before the match. What happened during was basically both guys stiffing each other before Vader's eye literally came out of the socket and into the eyelid. Match is from the All Japan/New Japan supershow on 2/10/90.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

One of the greatest brawls ever. It smokes Hansen/Andre, for example.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One of my favorite Vader matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The entire trilogy is pretty great. Hell, Vader's entire UWFi run is great. Tamura, Kakihara, Yamazaki, two tags... Swell stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the WCW Halloween Havoc 99 DDP vs Goldberg match like? I totally forgot they had another match after '98.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which event? SID/Goldberg was HH 99 . And then Sting/Goldberg for some reason...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was Fall Brawl. Found my thoughts. Very deep:

Well, this match was a huge disappointment. Not very good at all tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Which event? SID/Goldberg was HH 99 . And then Sting/Goldberg for some reason...





DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> Was Fall Brawl. Found my thoughts. Very deep:
> 
> Well, this match was a huge disappointment. Not very good at all tbh.


 Ah, Fall Brawl. Yeah Sting/Goldberg could have been good based on their Nitro '98 match, but typical WCW bullshit ruined it.


----------



## mohit9206 (Nov 17, 2013)

Is there a compilation of wwe dvd or blu ray with full old wwe episodes from ruthless aggression era ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader vs Bradshaw from Break Down may be the best match from the 1997 - 2001 span that fans don't know about. Blown away by it. Top three match on the year. (1998) Bar none.

VADER


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it any better than Mankind/Bret from Shotgun to recclaim that title you gave it?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Could have sworn Inoki/Vader was part of his retirement tour.

Carlos Colon is going to the HOF. Can't imagine just how furious Zeb must be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% positive. I don't have much faith in Bret Hart circa 1997, as anyone could tell you.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Could have sworn Inoki/Vader was part of his retirement tour.
> 
> Carlos Colon is going to the HOF. Can't imagine just how furious Zeb must be.


Are you serious?! A guy who helped another guy get away with the MURDER of another wrestler is being inducted into the HoF, yet Randy Savage has still not been inducted because he banged out Stephanie? The world we live in.

Jimmy Snuka is in, a guy who murdered his girlfriend and got away with it, Abdullah is in, a guy who knowingly gave other wrestlers Hepatitis C, Verne Gagne is in, a guy who murdered another man. But no Macho Man, and no Vader. I don't understand it. I really don't. There is no excuse not to induct Vader. None.

The HoF will always be a joke until Randy Savage is in. That's like having a basketball Hall of Fame with Larry Bird inducted (Hulk Hogan) but no Magic Johnson (Randy Savage).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> 100% positive. I don't have much faith in Bret Hart circa 1997, as anyone could tell you.


Hmm. I only remember the 3-Way Cage from Breakdown. If Vader/Bradshaw is anywhere near as it sounds, it should be one massive slugfest. But it IS Vader, and I do enjoy myself a good ol' fashioned slugfest, so there's that. That being said, no way am I hoping it'll top MANKIND circa 1997 (plus Bret in '97 did have the Austin and Taker stuff, which I know you hate bar WM 13 but I love, so yeah)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Gentleman:






FATTIES :mark: :mark: :mark:

That is all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Video can't be seen...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnlqX-BZ-wo

Try that link instead .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnlqX-BZ-wo
> 
> Try that link instead .



Weird. Works for me. Thanks for the extra link, that match isn't the greatest match ever or anything but it's tons of fun.

Edit-

Ladies and Gentleman, Foley alert! He's on the new WM 30 Podcast hosted by Rene Young!

http://www.podcastone.com/WWE-30-Years-Of-WrestleMania-Presented-By-WWE-Network

Pretty cool to hear Foley talk about the tag at WM 20. Apparently Austin came up to him after the match and looked him right in the eye and said "Mick, you've known me for a lot of years, and I've always been a straight shooter. I want to tell you honestly, man to man, you dropped the ball out there tonight". Apparently thats what drove Foley to drop almost 50 pounds and have that amazing match with Orton at Backlash, he didn't want his come back to result in one less than great match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

House show from Boston Garden on 10/31/86 was upped today on the network. 

Savage vs Steamboat from that show: was a fine technically crisp match with solid transitions but the move that ended the match was totally illogical but I guess that's how you make a challenger look strong without the champ losing the belt. ***1/4.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Who did Carlos Colon murder? Not Bruiser Brody right? Thought that was someone else


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SMITTY said:


> Who did Carlos Colon murder? Not Bruiser Brody right? Thought that was someone else



No I said he helped someone get away with it. Masked Invader, Jose Gonzalez, is the one who murdered Brody, Colon just ran the promotion and helped make sure he never went to jail. He even testified against Brody in the trial. He's a peice of shit.


----------



## DDMac (Feb 20, 2005)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Pretty cool to hear Foley talk about the tag at WM 20. Apparently *Austin came up to him after the match and looked him right in the eye and said "Mick, you've known me for a lot of years, and I've always been a straight shooter. I want to tell you honestly, man to man, you dropped the ball out there tonight".* Apparently thats what drove Foley to drop almost 50 pounds and have that amazing match with Orton at Backlash, he didn't want his come back to result in one less than great match.


Stone Cold's stock with me (which was already preposterously high) just went up another notch with me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Was that the one who Foley said he was disgusted to meet in his book?That might have been Gonzalez too though.

Well his induction speech should be interesting to say the least, I assume many of the wrestlers/legends in the crowd will refuse to cheer him, but most of the crowd I assume will be unaware of his past actions.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DDMac said:


> Stone Cold's stock with me (which was already preposterously high) just went up another notch with me.


Yea I thought that was awesome. Mick said after the match he was really really dissapointed but as soon as he walked through the curtain people were falling all over themselves trying to tell Mick and Rock how great it was. It wasn't until everyone cleared out that Austin came to Mick and gave him that heart to heart. That lead to Mick dropping all that weight and having one of his greatest matches ever a month later. Austin is just the best, I can listen to his podcast all day and watch his matches all night.

Smitty: that was Jose Gonzalez that Foley was disgusted to meet. Jose is the one who actually killed Brody, stabbed him to death. It makes me sick just thinking about it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Was Ambrose/Henry any good ?

Also starting extreme rules 2010 on the network soon, alittle modern stuff as Ive been watching old nwa/wcw the whole week


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope Carlos Colon is received with boos and "Brusier Body" chants during his induction. Things like this is exactly why I don't believe for one second all that bullshit about "WWE refuses to associate with Benoit because he's a murderer" when others who have done horrible things are not only acknowledged, but even get into the HOF.

I'm glad Foley was unhappy with WM20. It would've been a shame if the Backlash match had not happened. Instead of one solid tag, we got not only that but one of the best matches of all time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Quite liked that bit lol.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SKINS said:


> Was Ambrose/Henry any good ?


It was a solid match with good psychology with Dean working on Henry's knee.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I hope Carlos Colon is received with boos and "Brusier Body" chants during his induction. Things like this is exactly why I don't believe for one second all that bullshit about "WWE refuses to associate with Benoit because he's a murderer" when others who have done horrible things are not only acknowledged, but even get into the HOF.
> 
> I'm glad Foley was unhappy with WM20. It would've been a shame if the Backlash match had not happened. Instead of one solid tag, we got not only that but one of the best matches of all time.



I agree completely it really makes me sick to think the WWE would induct a piece of shit like Carlos Colon into the HoF.

Imagine if Benoits surviving son tried to get a job wrestling with the WWE. If you don't think he'd be blackballed out you're crazy. Yet not only do Colons kids get pushed and repackaged and given a big vignette lead up to their debut, their father gets freaking inducted into the HoF while Savage and Vader are on the outside looking in.

Frank Goodish's surviving family must be so upset. That's the main reason I don't feel Benoit should be inducted, because it would re open a lot of wounds for both his and Nancy's family. But that doesn't mean he should be ignored and have his name stricken from the record books. They don't need to put out a Benoit set or anything but putting his matches on other sets and allowing footage of him to be shown and his name listed with his career accomplishments seems fair to me.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Why is everyone hating Carlos? Jose Gonzalez killed Brody.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:ti @ the crowd chanting "FUCK 'EM UP, BENOIT, FUCK 'EM UP!" during Benoit/Guerrero from One Night Stand 2005.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Are you serious?! A guy who helped another guy get away with the MURDER of another wrestler is being inducted into the HoF, yet Randy Savage has still not been inducted because he banged out Stephanie? The world we live in.


Randy Savage is my god damn hero for that, btw.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Gentleman:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YES


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

IWCsOnlyRybackMark said:


> Why is everyone hating Carlos? Jose Gonzalez killed Brody.




Did you read anyone my posts? Carlos Colon testified on the behalf of Jose Gonzalez against Bruiser Brody, essentially making it so Gonzalez never had to face justice for killing Frank Goodish. That's almost as bad in my eyes.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Carlos Colon is a piece of trash, hopefully he dies a horrible death, BUT... he was a great wrestler. For those unaware, there are tons of his matches on YT, including the entire legendary feud with Abdullah the Butcher, there are matches with Stan Hansen (including the cage match), Brody, Flair, Rhodes, etc. He's a bonafide indusrty legend. Terrific brawler.

After all, Chris Benoit murdered his wife and kid, yet it doesn't prevent us to watch his stuff. Hell, some dudes even still worship him despite what he did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. Never cared for his work, tbf. Only doubles it over at how little I care for him. Plus, apparently his "stroke" within WWE is what kept Carlito around for as long as it did. Gosh, he sucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was this match like: Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair & Vader (Slamboree 1995)?

Never seen it, but WCW 1995.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flat. If you really want to see it for some nostalgia fun, then check it out. But it's partially dull. Nothing like how you'd want it to be.

Watch Sting vs Regal from GAB 1996 instead. Only randomly mentioning this b/c I watched it again tonight and MY GOD. Stellar Regal performance. Dude even got to boss around Sting for a significant amount of time on PPV. He didn't even need to win. He made his mark. I often ask "why don't most wrestle like Regal?" Not even in the literal terms for putting on a match. I'm talking why doesn't everyone be a genius and beat the tar out of workers by using every available portion of one's body to demolish their opponent. Regal taunted Sting by talking in the camera and stomped on Sting's hand at the same time. What a legend.


----------



## DopeMind (Mar 13, 2014)

I have the Royal Rumble DVD, but I don't know why. It only has like three good matches on it, the rest aren't very great ** 1/2 stars.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Meh. Never cared for his work, tbf. Only doubles it over at how little I care for him. Plus, apparently his "stroke" within WWE is what kept Carlito around for as long as it did. Gosh, he sucks.


If you're saying this having watched the Colon/Hansen Bullrope match then i'mma have to restate once again that you are the DIRT WORST. I still need to revisit more of his work, but he comes across from what I've seen as an astute brawler who would have made a good foil for Lawler back in the day. The Bullrope match itself is tremendous and without doubt the best of its kind I've seen. Brody business is disgusting and what it is, but I can watch his matches and just focus on the work and not the man himself. Wrestling has had too many notorious dickheads throughout the years for that sordid night and aftermath to affect my view of his work.

It's a questionable move regardless though, despite Colon's longevity and historical influence in Puerto Rico. Most of the controversy will be lost on the general audience, but I can't imagine it won't be legitimately awkward for wrestlers in attendance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Throw it in the same pile as my Abdullah the Butcher dislike. I already have.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So I have watched Souled Out, SuperBrawl, Uncensored, The Great American Bash, Bash At The Beach & New Blood Rising 2000.

And so far the only shows I would consider good have been Souled Out, Spring Stampede, Slamboree & Bash At The Beach.

But when the shows are bad for this year they are beyond atrocious fpalm

OH MY GOD The Filthy Animals and Mark Madden have been the absolute worst for this whole year so far!

No spoilers about Fall Brawl, Halloween Havoc, Mayhem or Starcade 2000 please


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Flat. If you really want to see it for some nostalgia fun, then check it out. But it's partially dull. Nothing like how you'd want it to be.
> 
> Watch Sting vs Regal from GAB 1996 instead. Only randomly mentioning this b/c I watched it again tonight and MY GOD. Stellar Regal performance. Dude even got to boss around Sting for a significant amount of time on PPV. He didn't even need to win. He made his mark. I often ask "why don't most wrestle like Regal?" Not even in the literal terms for putting on a match. I'm talking why doesn't everyone be a genius and beat the tar out of workers by using every available portion of one's body to demolish their opponent. Regal taunted Sting by talking in the camera and stomped on Sting's hand at the same time. What a legend.


Shame, esp with that Vader/Savage element. Agreed fully on Sting/Regal, masterful match, more so for Regal, but i love it too, Was going to upload it soon too lol.

Also a shame Savage/Austin didnt have a PPV match, i can only think of one Saturday Night match they had (i think).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal/Sting pimping :mark:. Sting's best match following a couple of the Vader ones, and it was 99.9% all REGAL. Basically Sting's best match since 1994 (where the best Vader/Sting happened imo). Not that that's saying much because Sting only has like 5 matches worth watching since then :lmao.


----------



## BruiserBrody (Jun 10, 2009)

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestli...t-of-msg-and-maple-leaf-gardens/#.UyG2qIUm-So

I travel back to 1985 to watch the Dream Team battle Ricky Steamboat and Tito Santana, and the "blow off" of Hogan vs. Mr. Wonderful's first feud. Then we head to 1991 for "Rowdy" Roddy Piper taking aim at the "Nature Boy" Ric Flair, The Road Warriors vs.The Natural Disasters and THE BERZERKER steals the show!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Taker/Austin (JD 2001) and i have to say i rather loved it.  Thought Austin was pretty great in this, for all the crap his heel turn gets, i loved it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok so I may be crazy (never denied it) but I rewatched *Hart/Michaels iron man* last night and it WASNT that bad. I'm not saying its great or even pretty good, but its decent to me tbf. My only gripe and a huge one is Bret didn't sell the arm work Shawn did for over 20 mins at all. However all in all I think the thing is, you have to view it in a specific context. They are going an hour, so both men are just trying to survive that long. Bret spams headlock in this because he wants to slow HBK down as he is known to fly around the ring, and the wins + ending was :mark: from my POV.

I know most hate this but tbf I dont see the WOAT, pos match" everyone says, hell I think Shawn and Bret have had much worse mania matches


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

So who else has witnessed Mike Awesome vs Lance Storm from New Blood Rising?

I just saw it for the first time last night fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SKINS said:


> Ok so I may be crazy (never denied it) but I rewatched *Hart/Michaels iron man* last night and it WASNT that bad. I'm not saying its great or even pretty good, but its decent to me tbf. My only gripe and a huge one is Bret didn't sell the arm work Shawn did for over 20 mins at all. However all in all I think the thing is, you have to view it in a specific context. They are going an hour, so both my are just trying to survive that long. Bret spams headlock in this because he wants to slow HBK down as he is known to fly around the ring, and the wins + ending was :mark: from my POV.
> 
> I know most hate this but tbf I dont see the WOAT, pos match" everyone says, hell I think Shawn and Bret have had much worse mania matches


If someone condensed that match into a 15minute 'Highlight reel', it may be better? :side:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't consider Bret/HBK a WOAT match (I mean I think it's fairly bad but I've watched it a fair few times so that has to count for something), it's just nowhere near the classic the WWE like to pretend it is and over time the opinions of the match have just intensified. It's more fans being irked by the constant overrating by the WWE than the fans thinking it's shite IMO. If the E' didn't always put it on the highest of pedestals then I don't think the hating would be as bad.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> If someone condensed that match into a 15minute 'Highlight reel', it may be better? :side:





Flux said:


> I don't consider Bret/HBK a WOAT match (I mean I think it's fairly bad but I've watched it a fair few times so that has to count for something), it's just nowhere near the classic the WWE like to pretend it is and over time the opinions of the match have just intensified. It's more fans being irked by the constant overrating by the WWE than the fans thinking it's shite IMO. If the E' didn't always put it on the highest of pedestals then I don't think the hating would be as bad.


Oh no its nowhere near great/very good, I just believe its "passable". Yea I can understand that notion of the fans being irked.

I just just viewed the match last night from a different POV, and got alittle more out of it


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Flux said:


> I don't consider Bret/HBK a WOAT match (I mean I think it's fairly bad but I've watched it a fair few times so that has to count for something), it's just nowhere near the classic the WWE like to pretend it is and over time the opinions of the match have just intensified. It's more fans being irked by the constant overrating by the WWE than the fans thinking it's shite IMO. If the E' didn't always put it on the highest of pedestals then I don't think the hating would be as bad.


I believe a majority of the fans believe it's an all time classic. But only because the WWE says so. Looking through these forums for the past few years, people who have more recently signed up have that match up there as a fantastic match. It's peer pressure both ways. WWE ensuring that it lives on. The 'smarter' internet posters making people believe it's a bad match.

And I am one who really dislikes it. Accompanied by how much I do not care for either men and how I adore lengthy Flair matches, that match is terribly paced until the end. Wrestling should be a story with a start, middle and end. Hart/Michaels is filler until the conclusion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Finally watched the Shield/Rhodes Bros tag from Raw. Pretty entertaining imo. I wish the Rhodes Bros hadn't fallen off the face of the Earth, but oh well. Have The Shield as a team ever had a bad match?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> So who else has witnessed Mike Awesome vs Lance Storm from New Blood Rising?
> 
> I just saw it for the first time last night fpalm


MIKE AWESOME :mark:

Haven't seen said match, though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How on earth did Cody's brother like Slamboree 2000? 

That Awesome/Storm match though. SO stupid. And you know what's scarier? I can name at least FIVE more things worse than it on that show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have to watch some WCW PPV 2000 stuff, just for the lol factor. Outside of a couple of matches, like Goldberg/Steiner, havn't really seen any TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Malenko losing a match against Kidman because he slid out of the ring is the GOAT moment of WCW 2000 PPV. To this day I'm still not sure if that was the finish or if Malenko simply forgot the rules and went out of the ring on instinct :lmao.

I need to finish UF 03. Started watching HBK/Orton but zoned out half way through because I was tired .


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> I hope Carlos Colon is received with boos and "Brusier Body" chants during his induction. Things like this is exactly why I don't believe for one second all that bullshit about "WWE refuses to associate with Benoit because he's a murderer" when others who have done horrible things are not only acknowledged, but even get into the HOF.


They may be harder on Benoit because his murders were more recent, more well known, and left a bigger black mark.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Carlos Colon is a piece of trash, hopefully he dies a horrible death, BUT... he was a great wrestler. For those unaware, there are tons of his matches on YT, including the entire legendary feud with Abdullah the Butcher, there are matches with Stan Hansen (including the cage match), Brody, Flair, Rhodes, etc. He's a bonafide indusrty legend. Terrific brawler.
> 
> After all, Chris Benoit murdered his wife and kid, yet it doesn't prevent us to watch his stuff. Hell, some dudes even still worship him despite what he did.



You're right, of course. I worship Chris Benoit's matches and think he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever. The difference with him and Colon is, I've done plenty of reading and research and came to the conclusion that Chris Benoit was a great human being who suffered irreparable brain trauma that led to him committing those unspeakable acts. Colon, from everything I've read, is/was of a clear mental state when he made the decision to help a murderer get off Scott free and not face justice. Maybe that's splitting hairs but it's how I feel. Once I found out how Abdullah was willfully infecting other wrestlers with Hep C, I just can't support him or watch his matches anymore because what he did disgusts me. I don't care if a wrestler was just a world class A-hole backstage, plenty of guys like Vader and HBK in the 90s were not great human beings but that doesn't stop me from enjoying them. It's just when it gets to the level of someone infecting others with a deadly disease or stopping a murderer from facing charges that I have a problem with it. Benoit to me falls in the same category as Verne Gagne, and I don't think anyone believes Verne is a despicable human because he has Alzheimer's and killed someone.

JoseDRivera: I think you are 100% right. Benoit will never be mentioned because what he did was a much bigger deal at the time and done while he was under contract with the WWE. None of these other guys issues we are bringing up were media sensations occurring while with the WWE.


I hate talking about the negative stuff with wrestling, let's talk something positive: Bret hart vs Roddy Piper at WM 8. I watched this match for the first time in ages yesterday and it held up splendidly. This is probably my second favorite Piper match after Starrcade with Valentine. Beautiful story. ****1/4

Savage/Flair from the same event was even better. This match deserves way more recognition than it receives. It's downright AMAZING. It is in Flairs Top 10 and Savages Top 5 for career matches. ****1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You're right, of course. I worship Chris Benoit's matches and think he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever. The difference with him and Colon is, I've done plenty of reading and research and came to the conclusion that Chris Benoit was a great human being who suffered irreparable brain trauma that led to him committing those unspeakable acts. Colon, from everything I've read, is/was of a clear mental state when he made the decision to help a murderer get off Scott free and not face justice. Maybe that's splitting hairs but it's how I feel. Once I found out how Abdullah was willfully infecting other wrestlers with Hep C, I just can't support him or watch his matches anymore because what he did disgusts me. I don't care if a wrestler was just a world class A-hole backstage, plenty of guys like Vader and HBK in the 90s were not great human beings but that doesn't stop me from enjoying them. It's just when it gets to the level of someone infecting others with a deadly disease or stopping a murderer from facing charges that I have a problem with it. Benoit to me falls in the same category as Verne Gagne, and I don't think anyone believes Verne is a despicable human because he has Alzheimer's and killed someone.


Sheeeit, dude, Benoit is a child murderer. CHILD MURDERER. I could care less about the eventual size of his brain, traumas and shit, he's still a child and woman murderer. And he clearly wasn't a total whacka-doo-doo, otherwise he wouldn't kill himself in the end.

Now, I always separate an artist from art, but if you feel the need to justify artist's actions in order to enjoy his stuff, they you have a big problem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Let's stop with the murderer talk and shit, yeah? Ok .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Personally, I don't need a justification to enjoy someone's work. Unlike cjack, if I intended to watch a match from Abdullah the Butcher or Colon, I would do so without any care about the evil they've done. Same goes for Benoit but my respect for him goes beyond his wrestling and the reason for that is because I'm convinced that he was a good guy who's brain was destroyed among other things that led to him doing those horrible things.

But yeah, this is a needless conversation. Tomorrow is 14 March which can only mean one thing. THE TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF WRESTLEMANIA XX!

I'll celebrate the historic event by watching the entire thing tomorrow. :mark: Been wanting to watch the whole way through for months but decided to reserve it for the anniversary.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

4 matches watched of UF 03, and the CAL SCALE is at... 0! :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 4 matches watched of UF 03, and the CAL SCALE is at... 0! :lmao


Jesus Christ. I just looked at that card. That has some SERIOUS WOAT potential for a modern WWE event. Test vs Scott Steiner? Goldberg vs Triple H? La Resistance? That Jericho/Christian/RVD Triple Threat looks promising at least.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That Test vs. Steiner feud just personifies Raw 2003.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So Raw 2003 was... funny? I totally agree, thanks to Stone Cold, Chris Nowinski, Scott Steiner, Goldust, Hollywood Rock and Lance Storm.

I'll be damned if this ever gets old. :lol








DETECTIVE FUSCAL said:


> 4 matches watched of UF 03, and the CAL SCALE is at... 0! :lmao


You better say that you NO'd the three of them that aren't Orton/HBK. That's the only way it'll make sense.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

"YOUR MOTHERS SUCKS!" :steiner


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2003*

GOLBERG, WHEN I LOOK IN TO YOUR EYES, I SEE SOMEONE PRETENDING TO BE SOMETHING THEIR NOT, PRETENDING TO BE A WRESTLER.


*The Dudley Boys Vs La Resistance - World Tag Team Championship Handicap Tables Match*

Spike was supposed to be in this, but he got injured after La Resistance attempted to spinebust him from the ring to the outside through a table... and only Spike's head connected with the table in one of the sickest botches I've seen lol.

Fuck me Bubba is absolutely STIFFING THE SHIT out of Rob Conway :lmao. And the fans are eating it up lol.

MIDNIGHT EXPRESS MENTION~!

Ok, that was... odd. Dudleys clear house, look to get some tables involved but Bubba ends up double teamed... so D-Von just goes back to the apron and ignores everything :lmao.

:lmao love how referees always tryi to find a way to distract themselves when the Dudleys go for the wassup headbutt.

"oh shit, he's gonna headbutt that guy in the balls. THAT'S ILLEGAL. I'd best go check on this guy for no reason..."

D-VON THROUGH A TABLE~! With a fucking Irish Whip. LOL.

Bubba is alone now, but he gets the upper hand with STIFFNESS. Gotta be careful when being stiff with La Resistance, don't want them bitching about it afterwards...

"Why are you being so stiff with me? Do you not know I am green?" :lmao quote from Bubba in the Dudley Shoot Interview :lmao.

SUPLEX THROUGH A TABLE~! There goes... The one not called Conway or Dupree lol.

SPINEBUSTER OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR THROUGH A TABLE TO CONWAY~! This time nobodies head got murdered . Wait, no, on replay his head DID crack the table, but there was another table in front of it that broke so he still went through a table while smashing his skull lol.

3-D!!! THE DUDLEY BOYS ARE THE NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! 17th time. Fucking hell lol. This was pretty good. Hot crowd, STIFFNESS, bitches going through tables. I had the fun.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao a fucking video package, complete with actual music from a real band and everything... for STEINER VS TEST :lmao.


*Test Vs Scott Steiner - If Steiner wins, Stacy is free of Test. If Test wins, Steiner becomes his man bitch or something*

:lmao they have a proper song for the video package for this shitty match... yet they don't have Stacy's theme?

Not gonna bother with this. Shock!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton*

I will never tire of the EVOLUTION theme. All hail Motorhead!!!

Orton wants to use HBK as a stepping stone, and HBK is gonna make it as difficult as possible for him. How? HEADLOCK TAKEDOWNS~!

Orton takes a page out of HBK's book by skinning the cat and coming back with a dropkick, but old HBK as the grizzled veteran doesn't allow the rookie Orton to keep control for very long, and even shows Orton how skinning the cat SHOULD be done! 

One miss step from HBK sends him shoulder first into the ring post, and in comes FLAIR to work over Shawn on the outside while the referee is distracted. Orton might be the rookie, but FLAIR on the outside more than evens things up!

KNEE TO THE BALLS~! Flair rules.

:lmao Orton picks HBK up and runs him shoulder first into the ring post... AND DOES IT TO THE WRONG SHOULDER :lmao.

VADER MENTION~!

Flair kills it on the outside, while in the ring... nothing particularly good is happening. Orton's arm work, while solid, is basic as shit and not that engaging. And Shawn... a few times during the match even HE looks lost. A few times he just kinda stood around like he didn't know what the fuck to do, then every time he would just kinda half heartedly jump on Orton and punch him in the face.

Superkick countered into an RKO was ok, looked a little off too though tbh. And the fans didn't give a shit about it :lmao.

Seriously, Flair on the outside is working fucking overtime to make up for the, well, messy match Orton and Shawn are having. Sneaking around trying to attack Michaels and constantly getting smashed in the face, screaming at the fans, and sweating like me walking up a couple of stairs.

SUPERKICK~! 3 COUNT~! Flair puts Orton's foot on the rope afterwards and the ref sees it and restarts the match. Flair gives knucks or something to Orton who decks HBK and pins him.

Match just fell FLAT. Crowd weren't really into it, and honestly it didn't look like Orton and HBK were either. Off night for both. Big mess with Flair providing the only entertainment. Thankfully 4 years later they gave us a masterpiece at Survivor Series .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


La Resistance are backstage being all hurt. Jericho shows up to complain about Austin to them. Building to the Survivor Series match :mark:.


*Gail Kim & Molly Holly Vs Trish Stratus & Lita*

Remember when Gail Kim just kinda showed up and won like, a battle royal to become women's champ or something? The fuck was all that about?

Oh btw, No. Also, FAP FAP FAP LITA AND TRISH.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kane Vs Shane McMahon - Last Man Standing Match*

:lmao oh man I almost forgot about the BALL ELECTRICUTION during the build up to this.

CHAIR SHOTS~! Shane jumped Kane during his entrance and just cracks him over and over with chair shots to the back and to the fucking FACE.

Man, Shane is fucking DOMINATING Kane! Smashing his head repeatedly into the steel steps :mark:. Then jabbing him in the face... and then Kane shoves him over the barricade :lmao.

BOTCHED POWERSLAM~!

Lawler: The referee is counting Shane?

WELL FUCKING DUH. Shane is down, match is a last man standing. WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T HE YOU GIANT PLEB?

CHOKESLAM~! SHANE IS UP!!

Kane looks to go for a tombstone, but decides it ain't good enough, so STEEL STEPS are brought in.

Is Kane capable of taking a face bump? RKO, Pedigree, BULLDOG ON STEEL STEPS... he always gets his hands up and has about 2 feet between his hands slapping the surface and his fucking head. DO IT PROPERLY YOU TAWT.

COAST TO COAST DRIVING STEEL STEPS INTO KANE'S FACE~!

JR and Lawler scream "where's the ref" and I only just realise the referee is knocked out on the floor. THE FUCK DID THAT HAPPEN?

SPAMMING THROWING SHANE INTO THE UNFORGIVEN SIGN~!

ATTEMPTED MURDER ON LIVE PPV~!

MORE ATTEMPTED MURDER ON LIVE PPV~!

Shane dives off the stage and... KANE MOVES :lmao. Shane is dead or something. Kane wins. Match was mostly sucky with a couple of fun spots.

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Christian Vs RVD Vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship Match*

:lmao the crowd are fucking DEAD. They barely react to RVD hitting a moonsault from the top rope to the floor landing on both opponents. Hell even JR and Lawler sound bored :lmao.

:lmao oh god this is TERRIBLE :lmao. RVD is botching, Jericho is being clumsy, and Christian doesn't look anything like the worker he is now. Combine that with a DEAD CROWD and oh man this is shit :lmao.

WHAT THE FECK WAS THAT? RVD JUST KIND DID A FLIP IN THE CORNER WHILE JERICHO RAN AT HIM AND... JERICHO SMASHED INTO HIM MID FLIP :lmao.

This match feels like it's lasted 30 minutes. Wish I'd skipped this and watched Steiner/Test instead...

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Coach & Al Snow Vs Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross - Winning Team Becomes Raw Broadcast Team*

:lmao Al Snow turned heel and joined THE COACH? How do I not remember this shit? :lmao

Not watching this, however I skipped to the end and... COACH AND AL SNOW WIN? :lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


JR and Lawler still have to call the main event, and both look like they wanna cry. Not because they just "lost their jobs", but because they still have to call the main event :lmao.


*Triple H Vs Goldberg - World Heavyweight Championship Match, if Goldberg loses he must leave the WWE*

:lmao I so wanna NO this, but it's a PPV main event and dammit I'm watching. Sadly.

Lillian Garcia looks FAP FAP FAP.

"THIS IS NUT CUTTING TIME" Ummm... what?

HHH wearing his TORN PENIS PANTS.

KNEE TO THE FACE TO COUNTER THE SPEAR~! That's like, the best thing to happen on this show since... the opener :lmao.

IF GOLDBERG IS VERTICAL, HE'LL BREAK YOUR ASS~! :lmao JR rules.

Figure Four and... the crowd are still just fucking DEAD :lmao. Nobody cares at all :lmao.

The fuck? HHH worked over the LEGS of Goldberg... and Goldberg is selling THE ARM on a comeback? What?

To make things worse, HHH keeps going back to the leg while Goldberg CONTINUES TO SELL THE ARM :lmao.

HHH is bleeding. Because... Flair didn't get chance to earlier?

REF BUMP~! LOW BLOW~! DDT~! NOBODY CARES STILL~!

POP FOR THE SLEDGEHAMMER :lmao.

:lmao Goldberg gets smashed in the FACE WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER, and less than 10 seconds later he's SPEARED HHH, SELLING HIS ARM AND SETTING UP FOR THE JACKHAMMER :lmao :lmao :lmao.

JACKHAMMER. 3 COUNT. GOLDBERG WINS.

:lmao OMG this is one of the worst matches I can recall seeing. HHH/Undertaker 02 matches look like all time classics compared to this :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -1*​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

03 RAW is officially the WOAT year :lmao


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How on earth did Cody's brother like Slamboree 2000?
> 
> That Awesome/Storm match though. SO stupid. And you know what's scarier? I can name at least FIVE more things worse than it on that show.


It's Tyler, I refused to be called Cody's brother :side:

I just had a lot of fun with Slamboree, I enjoyed Kanyon/Awesome & the Triple Cage

Slamboree 2000 look's great in comparison to some of the other shows from that year.



> Haven't seen said match, though.


Please watch it and reply back in here with your thoughts


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Man, say what you will about their match, the promo for Steiner v. Test was amazing for that abomination. 

What would you guys suggest for some good fast paced matches for me to review?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've returned to my neverending and constantly growing list of wrestlers I need to watch more of in order to form a solid opinion. Put them all in a random generator and clicked choose and out came ...




Spoiler: MATCHES I WATCHED



*Billy Kidman vs. Lord Steven Regal*
WCW Monday Night Nitro - 7/12/99
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6za1p_billy-kidman-vs-lord-steven-regal_sport
_Very simple match with Kidman starting off quickly, a transition w/ Regal launching Kidman over the top and Billy takes a huge spill to the outside, followed by shenanigans from Taylor and Fit to accompany a Regal control period, before we hit the finishing stretch. Ofc. Regal was comfortable in control and the finishing stretch was chock full with fun pin attempts from Kidman, who also nailed three superb dropkicks to the mush. The ending is hilarious w/ Kidman botching the SSP in a huge way, looks insanely painful but you can't help but laugh. Barring the botch, it was a fun little match but Regal is gonna' Regal, so now I'm going to find him vs. someone worse than Regal without being too painful, hopefully_

*Billy Kidman vs. Kaz Hayashi*
WCW Thunder - ??/??/98
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxjow3_wcw-thunder-1998-billy-kidman-vs-kaz-hayashi-cruiserweight-title_sport?search_algo=2
_Okay - Someone I couldn't give any less of a shit about, Kaz Hayashi  This was a bunch of nothingness. Like, there was nothing good about this match yet I can't name anything that was bad about it, other than the fact that it wasn't good, if that makes sense :lmao Just such a by the numbers, standard match that I will forget even existed tomorrow. I did enjoy a jawbreaker off the top rope by Hayashi but thats it. A bit of a struggle not to just turn off and watch something else. I can't really slag it off but I certainly won't be in any rush to watch it again or recommend it to others. Next up I'm gonna see how Kidman does in a tag match_

*The Filthy Animals vs. Raven and Perry Saturn*
WCW Monday Night Nitro - 5/4/99
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7nwnr_filthy-animals-vs-raven-perrry-satu_sport
_This was pretty fantastic in all honesty. Like the Regal match, it's simple in structure, but this is much quicker and IMO a better match. Raven and Saturn work fantastically as a unit, Billy Kidman takes one of the craziest/worst bumps I've ever seen (Saturn belly to belly suplexes him over the top rope, but Billy doesn't even touch the ropes, goes flying over and lands back first on the floor. NASTY FUCKING SHIT), and Rey makes for a great hot tag which goes without saying. There's shenanigans but it doesn't really take away from a great match, Billy proved to be a quality FIP here, even though I bet a lot of it was legit pain simply from that bump I mentioned. _

*Billy Kidman vs. Alex Wright*
WCW Monday Night Nitro - 10/6/97
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGgcFh-FlWc
_Another nothing match, really. It doesn't help that the show paid more attention to two other things than the match its self (they did a split screen of the match and a Mongo/Debra/Jarrett backstage skit, on top of focussing a lot on Raven and Saturn sitting at ringside). However, even without those things, it still wasn't anything good similar to the Hayashi match, just a typical match you expect to see every week where you won't be pimping it but you're not ranting about it after it's over. Seems like so far it's been a mixed bag for ole' Bill boy._

*Billy Kidman vs. DDP*
WCW Monday Night Nitro - 8/16/99
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxeXU8Ca5rU
_This was very short so it's unfair to comment, but it's basically what looked like a squash turned in to an upset for Kidman. It was okay, Kidman bumped well and the pinning counter to win it for him was done well. That's about it though, really. I picked a pretty bad match but it looked good on paper. I think if these two had a longer match though, it could be pretty good as DDP's offence is usually on point and Kidman bumps around well and can sell a beating. Also, for once... BILLY KIDMAN ACTUALLY GETS POWERBOMBED instead of countering it in to the sitout facebuster like he does in EVERY SINGLE MATCH. :lol_



So i've only watched five matches but I've seen a decent chunk of other Kidman stuff to add on top of these matches to formulate an opinion. He'll bump well for his opponents and whilst I haven't seen him sell a particular body part, he can generally sell a beat down and fatigue well. His offense is a bit wishy washy and very repetitive and he is prone to making some mistakes and looking sloppy - Several times with victory rolls and what have you he landed pretty hard instead of smoothly, also the hilarious botch in the Regal match. I will also say he generally needs to work with good, proven workers to put on a solid match and whilst Alex Wright is a very good worker, the match between the two that I watched featured a very, very young and TV inexperienced Billy Kidman - I think the commentators mentioned he was only there for a few weeks prior to that match.

So yeah. Good bumper, can sell for his opponents, works well in tag matches (as proven not just in the Saturn/Raven match, but also vs. TWGTT and a good one with w/ Cena vs Angle and Benoit, also IIRC there's a decent one vs. Benoit and Malenko w/ Rey.) however he is prone to sloppiness and pretty shitty offense. A decent hand yet expendable and not someone I'd class as good, I guess you can put it in short.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK, I'll say it - I've pretty much never thought Billy Kidman was good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kidman's series with Juventud confirmed to me that he is legit and that I didn't just like him for his ugly SSP. Lots of nice callback spots in their series and in the early part, Kidman actually played a really good heel that showed off some personality. Love his offense too. Yeah he's on my good side and I'm always up for a Kidman match. I just wish he played a heel more often.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kidman beat HOGAN, no way he could be bad :side:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993: you seen Kidman/Tajiri BL 2002? Not saying one match proves Kidman is an awesome wrestler or anything, but that match is pretty much the greatest thing ever. Okay that was some serious hyperbole, it's a top 10 Cruiserweight match IMO.

If anyone has any free time or the motivation to help a brother out, can you list your favorite 10-20 matches from Raw or Smackdown from 2012 and 203? Preferably with the dates and such. Trying to find some gems to watch on the Network.

Cal: as always, excellent review sir (Y). That show is truly a pile of garbage. Is that the most "NO!" Worthy matches on any modern (2000-2014) WWE PPV? I can't think of another that was as bad. You know shit is seriously wrong when the MotN involved La Resistance. Dammit Cal, you need to review GOOD shows so I can find GOOD stuff to watch. That Unforgiven review is not helping me at all


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yeah1993: you seen Kidman/Tajiri BL 2003? Not saying one match proves Kidman is an awesome wrestler or anything, but that match is pretty much the greatest thing ever. Okay that was some serious hyperbole, it's a top 10 Cruiserweight match IMO.


Their Smackdown 10/2/03 match trumps that with ease.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Irrelevant said:


> Their Smackdown 10/2/03 match trumps that with ease.



Really? Never seen it, I gotta find it thanks man. Tajiri is such a boss. His match with Xpac at Summerslam 2001 is fabulous as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yeah1993: you seen Kidman/Tajiri BL 2003? Not saying one match proves Kidman is an awesome wrestler or anything, but that match is pretty much the greatest thing ever. Okay that was some serious hyperbole, it's a top 10 Cruiserweight match IMO.


I'm gonna watch that in a sec if I can find a working link. anyone got one?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That Awesome/Storm match though. SO stupid. And you know what's scarier? I can name at least FIVE more things worse than it on that show.


Nah. It's the worst thing on that show. Thus effectively meaning a Judy Bagwell on a Pole match w/a David Arquette run-in is actually > than something. Says it all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just watched the WM Scooby Doo film. Better than any PPV since like, SummerSlam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds about right. I need to watch it asap.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was anticipating it like nuts because I thought it was a live-action film. It being a cartoon makes the potential for it to be atrocious far less likely.

I found a vid of Tajiri/Kidman but it's going to take forever to load. It's on some Russian stream site or something.

edit - 10 minutes after I post this it's 1/4 loaded. seriously what the fuck MOVE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I was anticipating it like nuts because I thought it was a live-action film. It being a cartoon makes the potential for it to be atrocious far less likely.
> 
> I found a vid of Tajiri/Kidman but it's going to take forever to load. It's on some Russian stream site or something.
> 
> edit - 10 minutes after I post this it's 1/4 loaded. seriously what the fuck MOVE.


Well, as long as it doesn't take an hour, I think it's certainly worth the watch. I think I gave it like **** last time I saw it. Tajiri is like 75% of the reason that match is great, but Kidman held his own I thought.

I don't think Kidman is some amazing wrestler or anything, to be honest I haven't seen enough of him to form a solid opinion, just 15 or so of his matches in WCW/WWE. But from the stuff I've seen, he seems an more than capable baby face worker. He gets some great sympathy with his selling and his shooting star look beautiful at times.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I gave up on the link loading. I'll watch it whenever I can actually find the friggin thing. 

EDIT - I haven't seen a WHOLE lot of Kidman either, but I like the Juvi series a lot and he had like nothing to do with it. There are Kidman showings I remember thinking were ''bleh''. Though tbf IDR what they are.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I gave up on the link loading. I'll watch it whenever I can actually find the friggin thing.
> 
> EDIT - I haven't seen a WHOLE lot of Kidman either, but I like the Juvi series a lot and he had like nothing to do with it. There are Kidman showings I remember thinking were ''bleh''. Though tbf IDR what they are.


I'm in need of your assistance.

Mr. WOOLCOCK was nice enough to send me a list of matches he considered to be mat wrestling classics. If you were about to die and only had enough time on Earth left to watch 2 of these matches from this list, which would you choose? I'm trying to find a good place to start:

Jim Breaks/Adrian Street, WOS '72 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKmbPYlRx2g

Terry Rudge/Tom Tyrone '84 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxIvWPPcUGc

Steve Grey/Clive Myers '75 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdcr0Dzawsw

Yuki Ishikawa/Daisuke Ikeda '05 : http://theditch.us/05-09.html (4/24)

Yuki Ishikawa/Kazunari Murakami '00 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Or-oI67aEg

Finlay/Callihan I '11 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAdzeQKrn_0

Finlay/Callihan II '12 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXlV8g6Q1wU

Masakatsu Funaki/Tatsuo Nakano '89 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHtgUsXEm4

Yoshiaki Fujiwara/Kazuo Yamazaki '89 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vi6lLxflpQ

Yoshiaki Fujiwara/Super Tiger July '85 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEdvtUAH1IQ

Yoshiaki Fujiwara/Super Tiger September '85 :
http://theditch.us/050s80s.html

Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura I '96 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab9n0jmi05s

Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura II January '97 : http://theditch.us/090s.html

El Dandy vs Javier Llanes '94 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEbIWqFsU70

Chris Hero vs Ian Rotten '02 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLiEZ_9tZA

Kiyoshi Tamura vs Hiroyuki Ito August '04 : http://theditch.us/00-04.html

Yuki Ishikawa vs Carl Greco '08 : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e...?search_algo=1

Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda August '96 : http://theditch.us/090s.html

Ishikawa vs Ikeda September '97 : http://theditch.us/090s.html

Ishikawa/Otsuka vs Ikeda/Ono '96 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyp95l9JxBM

Akiyama vs Shibata '05 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MFsxRWFJOI

Toshiaki Kawada vs Stan Hansen February '93 : http://theditch.biz/chron.html

Yoshihiro Takakaya vs Don Frye June '02 : http://theditch.us/00-04.html

Hashimoto/Regal April '95 : http://theditch.us/090s.html


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You want my assistance ? :troll

Starting Fall Brawl 94, regal/badd so far is excellent, no naitch on this ppv is upsetting


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> You want my assistance ? :troll
> 
> Starting Fall Brawl 94, regal/badd so far is excellent, no naitch on this ppv is upsetting



Yep because we all know how much you ADORE mat wrestling 

Have you seen Fall Brawl 1993 yet? Regal has a TREMENDOUS, like ****1/2 level, match with Ricky Steamboat. One of the greatest things I've ever seen. It's not even mat wrestling it's just a gritty FIGHT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehh, I think Ive soften my stance on that abit, if something is good its good and the style wont be a turn off to me ya know, Not saying I'd go crazy for 30+ mat based match but it depends, saying that no I havent, I'm on a bit of a wcw 94 tour so that is the reasoning behind this years


Edit: Funny enough Ive actually seen Finley/Sami C. #1 and its p. good iirc


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SKINS said:


> Ehh, I think Ive soften my stance on that abit, if something is good its good and the style wont be a turn off to me ya know, Not saying I'd go crazy for 30+ mat based match but it depends, saying that no I havent, I'm on a bit of a wcw 94 tour so that is the reasoning behind this years
> 
> 
> Edit: Funny enough Ive actually seen Finley/Sami C. #1 and its p. good iirc



Yep I've seen the Finlay/Callihan matches too, I thought they were fantastic. It made me mad to see Finlay wrestling so well in 2012 on an Indy show, he should be getting 10 minutes on WWE TV 2-3 times a month teaching these young cats on the roster how to go. Can you IMAGINE a Finlay vs Bryan/Cesaro/Rollins/Ziggler match? Yea, he should still be wrestling on TV if he wants to as should Regal. 

Is 1994 really as good as everyone makes it out to be? I finished 1992 on PPV and it might be my favorite year ever for any company. I'm working through 1993 and it's kind of a drag. 1994 shall be next.

Make Steamboat/Regal FB 1993 a priority watch if you have the time in the future. You won't regret it.

Watching Vader/Hansen NJPW 10/02/90 right now. Word on the street this is a brawl for the ages. Let's see if it tops Sawyer/Duggan Mid South 1985 on my favorite brawls list


Edit: Jesus Christ I'm only 3 minutes in and it looks like they are trying to decapitate each other with elbows to the FACE :mark:

Edit2: OH MY FUCKING GOD VADERS EYE SWEET JESUS THAT IS INSANE.

Yeah1993: you win bro, you win. This is only 5 minutes in and it has Cactus/Vader Saturday Night topped on the brutality scale.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I havent seen that many years as a whole, but 1994 IMO is fantastic and a top 3-5 in wrestling history, I think Ive seen enough from that year to form a opinion and my opinion is its wonderful


Naitch,arn,dustin,vader (w/ old man Race),sting,austin,steamboat,foley,regal :kobe6


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Mr. WOOLCOCK was nice enough to send me a list of matches he considered to be mat wrestling classics. If you were about to die and only had enough time on Earth left to watch 2 of these matches from this list, which would you choose? I'm trying to find a good place to start:


Some of those aren't really ''mat'' matches, imo. Ishikwa/Ikeda from 05 is a classic but it's basically two dudes brutally punching and kicking each other in the face in one of the most violent matches of all time. I guess they hit the ground a bit, but it's not a ''mat'' match, I don't think. Maybe my memory's fuzzy but I wouldn't consider Kawada/Hansen, Finay/Callihan, Ishikawa/Murakami or some others on that list ''mat'' wrestling either. Even if there IS mat-wrestling, the match is more memorable for other things to me, e.g. Ishikawa/Murakami being the veteran owner of the company being fucked up by a vicious asshole punk - kind of Cena/Lesnar Jr, I thought. Fujiwara/Yamazaki is very submission hold-ish, but not really mat-ish either, I don't think. Haven't seen some other of those, but if I had to watch two of those right now, I'd probably pick both Han/Tamura matches. They're short, nuclear, and just all time high-end classics. And on last watch I thought their third match was even better than those two. If you've never seen that kind of wrestling (''shoot style'') it may be kind of confusing rules-wise, but I found it really easy to pick up quickly like, 4 years ago when I was 16, so an adult that isn't a shithead should be able to get it. I can explain it if you want me to, though, since there are couple of ''wait what''s possibly in there. 

Han/Tamura maaaybe not as mat-based as, say, the Tamura/Sakurabas (which has these exchanges where you have almost no fucking idea what is even going on because they are that fast......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-dJngBfpEY), but I honestly think the Han/Tamura match-up is about as good as any in history. Shame they only had three matches with the fourth being called off because of injury. 

The most mat-based match out of those (as someone who's never watched the WOS matches) to me is likely Dandy/Llanes. Some other matches on there are ''mat''-like, but have heated standing shit that actually improves the match. When these guys got on their feet the match actually lessened in quality and you wish they stayed down.

Also Takayama/Frye is a shoot and not really a ''wrestling'' match. I haven't seen it myself (b/c it's not wrestling, really), but it's really famous (/infamous?) for a few ridiculous punch exchanges. Or maybe only that one punch exchange, again I haven't seen it.

I actually don't think THAT much of the Vader/Hansen match.  It's good but I don't remember it being GREAT. IIRC they had a match later in the year I thought was better, though obviously not as disgustingly....disgusting. I prefer Vader's matches in Japan with Hashimoto, Inoki, Choshu, Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, Takada, Yamazaki (...probably others) to the eye match. The eyeball pop is untouchable on a ''burnt into your head'' scale, though. Not just exclusive to Vader. Like, in all of wrestling. His fucking eye left its socket, F'FUCK'S SAKE.

WCW 1994 for the first six/seven months is maybe almost 1992-level. I guess their mid-card has more ''average''/just ''watchable'' stuff than 1992. Second half has plenty of good as well. 1993 has way too much stuff that disappointed. Watch mainly for Vader, Steamboat, Cactus, Regal, the Blondes, and Too Cold Scorpio.




On a final note; IDK who Tom Tyrone is but he has a great name.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

First half of 1994 of WCW was very close to what 1992 was for them. The second half though once Hogan came in was putrid. Hogan basically had the anti-Benoit effect. When he came in, EVERYTHING got worse. Even business. I don't understand how it's possible to have not one, not two, but THREE DUDs against Vader, but Hogan managed to do it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wasn't PUTRID. I think it's always been exaggerated how much the product lowered when Hogan came in. Hell I don't think it was bad just not as good as the first half-year. Not like it's easy to match that kind of half-year anyway.

the SuperBrawl match rocks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Superbrawl match was literally 20 minutes of two grown men no selling. If this wasn't a Vader match, you would hate it too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not the kind of guy who likes or dislikes a match because someone is in it. I hate the strap match between the two so yeah. I could just as easily say you would like if it wasn't Hogan but I won't b/c that's stupid. The match just rocks.  [[also doesn't go 20 minutes]]

I am literally trying to remember if I like or completely fucking hated the cage match. I don't think it was in-between - I think I either thought it was just pretty good or completely awful. Wait, have I even watched it? WAIT, did they even have a cage match?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Stevie Ray on commentary is pure GOLD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy shit links to two of the Finlay vs Callihan matches were posted? Sweet jesus YES.

Also, skins _(and everyone else)_ watch Hashimoto vs Regal. Then watch it five more times.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Those are my uploads, actually (so is Ish/Murakami and Hero/Rotten).  Didn't I give you the link to Fit/Sami months ago? I guess that was someone else? I think I still have the wXw Finlay/Callihan on my laptop, too. Actually I don't think I ever watched it b/c I downloaded the whole show but didn't want to sit through multiple hours of weird, horrible, singing, chanting people in the audience. Seriously wXw crowds are the dogshit suck of the universe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You could have. I know I scored various Callihan vs Cole links from ya, so maybe that was it.

Never liked how wXw had the fans right there on the ring. But my vote for the worst crowds are any that participate in that fucking Davey Richards howl before he leaps off the top rope. Legit plug my ears each time b/c I can't remotely take it.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

PWG's crowd chanted "you are wrestling" to Davey Richards after his goodbye match, ergo they're the worst ever by default.

EDIT: CJ asked about mat classics. Since the modern American stuff is pretty much well known and covered, here's one from the Land of the Rising sun:



It's pretty much the top contender for the best match of the 80s. I didn't think THAT much of it the first time I saw it, but then I rewatched it THREE times recently, and it's an absolute masterpiece. The match occured in the midst of NJPW/UWF feud, so the HATE is full throttle on. The matwork itself is not complicated, just two tough fucks exchanging pretty much basic holds, but boy, oh boy... :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Finlay v. Jon Ryan from 2011. I don't think I've ever been more confused listening to a group of people.

-------------------------------------

FINALLY WATCHED ALL THE DOINK

Matt Borne was the next pick, so I will make all 5 [weeks later note – it’s more than 5] matches 1993 Doink stuff. Because he ruled that year. But how good is the stuff I haven’t seen? 

Doink v. Kamala (Rampage 4/11/93)
YES! You know Kamala is honestly one of those people who I couldn’t name any *really* notable matches from, but am always excited to see him. I think he’s a perfect example of how a good gimmick (and being PHAT) can immediately create interest no matter what. Sometimes I feel that too much of an emphasis is put on good ‘mechanical’ wrestling. Not ‘robotic’, but purely mechanics – character work can be important. I love a gimmick like Kamala, and if he can play that gimmick well during a match, then the match will be enjoyable. If I hated the gimmick it would be a different story, but fat jungle man in paint and tribal mask that slaps his stomach is incredible. Doink is just in another league, though. The pre-match promo for this was so good and maybe not even one of his better ones. One of my favourite characters ever. Match was…not that good. Doink bumps averagely for Kamala’s collar/elbow throws, and smartly goes to scoop his leg and hold him, so he can keep close and Kamala in check. Kamala does this great thing of chopping Doink in the head while in an armbar, which Doink sells greatly. Then he totally no sells the second one which sucked. Finish was absolutely fucked up. Kamala – and I shit you not – tried to pin while Doink was stomach-down. He lifted Doink’s knee to ‘hook the leg’ and everything. It took like 8 attempts for him to get up and question the ref. On paper this might sound amazing but was ‘who the fuck came up with that?’ in practice.

Doink v. Typhoon (Raw 2/1/93)
Doink against fatties is an interesting case, but not the kind of match I usually like fatties to be in. Doink seems to take most of the match with holds and things that keep the big guys grounded, and if the fatty ever gets offense, he gets pissed and resorts to eye raking and head shoving. He does get caught in a couple of things, but he winds up winning anyway (albeit cheating to do so), so him taking so much of the match and then winning doesn’t make a fatty look very good. Not like these are meant to be squashes, either, so he should be stooging a lot more. This definitely wasn’t bad, but kind of ‘wrong’, I think.

Doink v. Bob Backlund (Wrestling Challenge 6/20/93)
Doink’s ditched the afro thing and now has the incredible droopy dreadlock-ish wig and comes out with one of the more bizarrely captivating entrances I can remember. He did nothing fancy but I think that’s why I loved it. If I can go slightly off topic for a second I actually hate those big-ish WrestleMania entrances with fancy bullshit all over the place and pyro and embarrassing video packages and them trying to make it an obnoxiously big deal; I’d rather it be kept simple with a psychotic clown looking depressed or unsettled until he randomly chuckles like he’s high. This could have been a really good match if it had more length. Usually I don’t think that’s a good excuse but they were working like it was a longer match that ended way, way too abruptly. Doink’s kind of the ‘’technical’’ psycho of the WWF who can outwrestle most people, so it was a really cool concept that he consistently loses hold-trades to the multi-year ‘’technical’’ world Champion in Backlund. Every time they’d go in to do something Backlund would come out on top. Nothing looked particularly great, but fine enough for what should have been the open parts to a match at least twice as long. Then Doink gets a roll up somewhere in between and it just ends right there. I don’t need a long match, but hell, even in a short match, build up to it a little better. After getting outclassed several times Doink actually went to a handshake and grabbed Backlund’s leg. Instead of grabbing the leg it should have been the perfect time to cheap shot him and hit the short TV version of a finish run. Or, shit, just a bunch of Doink offense, one Backlund hope spot, then a cheating Doink victory. 

Doink v. The Kamikaze Kid (Raw 5/3/93)
Good maul-y squash. Doink has a really damn cool looking STF where the leg look uncomfortably bent and the head looks even more uncomfortably bent. That was my favourite part of this, but I thought it was also fucking awesome that after getting the shit beat out of him for a minute, Waltman gets two mere elbows to the stomach and Doink thinks he has to rake the eyes to stay on top. The submission Doink won with looked painful. I’m sure there’s a word for it.

Doink v. Some Guy from Baltimore (Raw 9/13/93)
Baltimore Barry is some jobber whose name isn’t listed in the youtube video, nor can I understand his surname being called by Howard Finkel. Either way I don’t mind because despite his willingness to bump pretty well, he has a pretty frustrating way of selling that I’m not sure I can explain. Not really even poor, just kind of phony and worked to the point that it’s difficult to feel sympathy for him. Also kind of difficult to feel sympathy for him considered he begun the match cheap-shotting Doink. Doink got a couple of real cool moves here including a great German that the Maryland Man landed heavy on. Post-match has Doink splashing Heenan with the bucket of water; was probably the beginning of his face turn. Heenan is absolutely sublime with reactions and believably slipping over whenever he can. Seriously I don’t know how you fake slipping over that well. I want you to think of a great heel. Got one? Whoever’s on your mind isn’t as good as Bobby Heenan.

Doink v. The Big Bossman (Wrestling Challenge 2/27/93)
Well I thought this was pretty great. Unlike Doink’s matches with Kamala and Typhoon, Doink begins his assault on this phatty by nailing him in the head with some type of mystery box. His work over of the neck and arm/shoulder is plenty good, with a lot of twist and torque. He’d mix up holds with other holds a little so Bossman’s neck would be sideways while one arm is straight upward and the other arm if folded behind him. Doink goes to the top rope which Gorilla points out is a shitty idea and it proves to be so when Bossman takes pretty much every move the rest of the match, which is how I think these ‘’clown who can wrestle v. big guys’’ matches should go. I know Bossman is super but I guess I’m always surprised how super he is right before watching him. I think sometimes it’s kind of hard for a babyface to keep that adrenaline-powered fifty km an hour shine rush offense interesting for more than a few moves, but Bossman mixes it up with splashes and punches to the gut and uppercuts. Great ‘stumble’ clothesline in there as well, you know those clotheslines where the seller doesn’t directly fall but instead sort of trips backward? Yeah, that. Doink gets a cheaty-ass victory with a green spray can or something and ends the match I’ve basically wanted to see ever since first watching the Kamala match [which was weeks ago, btw. This was an hour ago].

Doink v. The 1-2-3 Kid (New York House Show 8/13/93)
More lengthy than I usually want for these types of watching, but worth it because the match was mostly really good. Doink can squash a guy how you want a crazy bastard clown to squash a guy, but his longer matches allow for a better build. Kid is great on selling and offense. After some usual Doink foolery (pretty sure he offered Kid candy), Kid gets nailed with a knee to the gut and sells it in that cool jumpy-collapsy kind of way. His dropkicks and spinkicks and moonsault are clean, too, and it was awesome that, after getting Doink out of the ring and celebrating, he went on one knee and held his head. Maybe to try to remind himself to not get too excited and relaxed. Or it just hurt. But hey, that’s a great form of selling. Doink’s continuing frustration with Waltman’s success didn’t lead to any mat stuff like it usually does, here he was just bodyslamming and stomping and using he ropes and ring post and swinging his arms in anger. He’s got a tendency to sometimes leave blank space, though. I mentioned while watching, I thiiiink I was Christian v. Zeke from RR2010, that Zeke kind of got lost for a sec on offense with a ‘’what do I do now?’’ kind of feeling. I didn’t get that confusion feeling from Doink, but it was the same kind of hesitation. Kid was fucking awesome getting in those shots right before falling in pain. Kept trying to get himself up enough to get back in control but couldn’t do it. I thought it was cool that the spot where one guy is in the ring and pulls the ropes so the guy on the apron lands in the ring was actually used as a bit of a transition or hope spot (Kid landed on his feet). Finish was abrupt but Kid was still an underdog guy at this point so those are the kind of victories he should be getting. This wasn’t *amazing*, and it’s probably a match that’ll get lost in a sea of great wrestling I’ll eventually watch, but it was worth the fifteen minutes.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I just want to repeat: Vader/Hansen > > > Andre/Hansen, and I like the latter quite much.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Andre/Hansen >>>>>>>>> Anything Vader did in Japan by a big margin, tbh. I would add more >s but it would stretch the page.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Andre/Hansen is not even Andre's Top 10 match from Japan. I genuinely wanna hear why do you adore the match THAT much. Okay sure, it was a beloved mildly wild brawl that got out of control eventually, they threw punches and stuff, there were bits of chaos and mayhem... But again, nothing extraordinary. Again, I really dig the match, so this is not a knock. ***3/4

Andre/Khan > > > > >


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri I don't blame you for the write-up on Doink vs Backlund needing more time. It actually really did for the way it was worked. But still, honestly, and maybe love out of seeing it actually happen or something, I still went wild for what it was.

Reason why you like and/or expect something quality from Kamala was terrific, btw.

And to throw my hat into the topic, at this moment I'm currently on the side of Andre/Hansen > Vader/Hansen. It's probably a closer niche for me, than both of your opinions though. And then Vader vs Choshu 6/27/89 is one I like to randomly bring up b/c c'mon. HAVE YOU SEEN IT? _(rhetorical)_ Amazing.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Some of those aren't really ''mat'' matches, imo.


Yeah, in the original PM he asked for people/matches that resembled Finlay, Regal, Danielson etc so I went with some that were more European/Shoot orientated, and others that played to the violence and physicality such as Kawada/Hansen, Ishikawa/Ikeda etc. If he just wanted mat classics I'd have obviously avoided a few of them, but the gist I got was he just wanted as many matches that played to strengths/attributes of those three 

Of the matches listed, if you want a pure mat/grappling contest which goes past twelve minutes, then I'd say Breaks/Street is essential viewing. The takedowns and counters are sublime (Street busts out an MMA esque running kneebar takedown which looked incredible), but it's also a match that demonstrates WOS matches were more than just hold trading. Both men grow progressively more frustrated as the match develops with both focusing on a particular bodypart, and it's a great example of how well WOS matches captured the organic 'breakdown' in a match, as by the end they're throwing ungodly stiff forearms in amongst the grappling. You also have Street's theatrics and Breaks' crybaby routine to add some light hearted entertainment into the matwork as well. It's just fabulous.

Stick me in the Andre/Hansen >>>> camp as well. I adore how well Hansen plays the FIP, how Andre superbly dissects the lariat arm, the entire build to Hansen slamming Andre and of course the amazing moment when the lariat connects and Andre cannons out of the ring. It has the amazing visuals which make it an unrivalled spectacle, but there's also subtle and compelling work in between the visuals that make it such a transcendent match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I watched these 3 last night before going to bed:

Jim Breaks/Adrian Street, WOS '72 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKmbPYlRx2g

Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura I '96 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab9n0jmi05s

Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura II January '97 : http://theditch.us/090s.html


I have to say all 3 hit the spot. Never heard of any of the guys in either of the matches, Volk Han just sounded like a bad ass name and that other match was the first on the list. These are exactly the type of match I was looking for, I especially enjoyed the first Volk Han/Tamura match.

Adrian Street might be one of the most entertaining SOB's I've ever seen. Mauve hair, mauve robe, mauve trunks, mauve everything :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think I've seen an Andre Japan match outside of the Hansen match which is great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seeing as you're looking for Regal/Finlay orientated matwork, I'd say Marty Jones would be your best bet from WOS. As a light heavyweight, his matches didn't have the 'pure' grappling like you saw in Breaks/Street, but rather the more euro influenced counters and holds you associate with Regal in particular (Jones trained Regal so he's very much the precursor to what Regal would become). Jones is also imo the best WOS worker in terms of organically moving a match from 'respectful' matwork to violent exchanges. When he gets vicious he's just as stiff and violent as anything Regal or Finlay would produce.

The top three matches to watch would be vs Dynamite Kid from '83 (on youtube), vs Finlay from '84 (on dailymotion) and vs Steve Wright/Bull Blitzer from '86 on youtube.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...restling-1970s-1980s-appreciation-thread.html

^ Links are all in there.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Andre/Hansen absolutely rules.

That was Bubz' cameo appearance for the week.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Seeing as you're looking for Regal/Finlay orientated matwork, I'd say Marty Jones would be your best bet from WOS. As a light heavyweight, his matches didn't have the 'pure' grappling like you saw in Breaks/Street, but rather the more euro influenced counters and holds you associate with Regal in particular (Jones trained Regal so he's very much the precursor to what Regal would become). Jones is also imo the best WOS worker in terms of organically moving a match from 'respectful' matwork to violent exchanges. When he gets vicious he's just as stiff and violent as anything Regal or Finlay would produce.
> 
> The top three matches to watch would be vs Dynamite Kid from '83 (on youtube), vs Finlay from '84 (on dailymotion) and vs Steve Wright/Bull Blitzer from '86 on youtube.
> 
> ...


Excellent sir thank you. It's interesting you brought up Marty Jones, I was just listening to the Stone Cold podcast and he had William Regal on there. They were talking about WOS for a while and Steve asked Regal who the best he's ever been in the ring with and Regal says "Marty Jones" without even hesitating.

Adrian Street is just priceless. My new favorite move, catching someone in a short arm scissors, then tussling up your hair and making sure it's in it's proper place :lmao. He's like a fruitier, funnier, more FABULOUS Goldust, 25 years before Goldust even existed. Skipping around the ring:clap


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yep, Regal as I alluded to was essentially trained and mentored by Jones, so he holds him in high esteem. As I said, whilst the Breaks/Street matwork imo is excellent, I appreciate too much of that sort of slow/deliberate pace style of grappling could wear thin after a while. That's why Jones in particular is probably the most accessible for someone unfamiliar with WOS, as his style really is more european orientated (and the sort of counters/holds/offence you expect from Regal, Finlay, Taylor etc) as opposed to the classic British matwork of someone like Johnny Saint.

If you're looking for the best examples however of traditional British matwork, then Johnny Saint vs Steve Grey 1/28/80 and Grey/Myers 11/22/75 (link is in the cluster I sent you via PM) are the quintessential embodiment of that style. The Saint/Grey match has a wonderful narrative of Grey trying to dictate the pace but being constantly overwhelmed by Saint, whereas Grey/Myers is pretty much the Flair/Steamboat of WOS. Grey is your local hero (and a truly all time great face worker imo) and Myers is the international phenom, and together their exhanges and pacing from matwork to rope running are truly exemplary. They have another match in '85 which is also excellent, but sadly around the early 80s some fuckwit decided to alter Myers into a comedy Kung Fu gimmick, which robbed him of much of his holds and general ability. Disastrous move, but the '85 match sees Myers wrestle the sort of style people wished he never deviated from.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CJack, check this beauty out:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

And yes, it goes without saying that Street was incredible as the exotico worker. He really embraced the theatrics and pantomine esque aspects of the character, but underneath he was also an exemplary worker with tremendous matwork and capable of being ridiculously violent, which just added so much depth to the style he could work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The rugged side behind him is what makes him largely brilliant. You want the mind games element of being overly flamboyant to work so well that once he starts roughing up the opponent, it comes off as a shocking _(to the viewer and kayfabe the opponent)_, yet fantastic, result.

The Goldust mention a page back wasn't too off. Differences, yes, but the gimmick wrapped around a multi-faceted worker who could give you a licking is on the same level.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Adrian Street was incredible. The greatest thing came from Wales ever.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched these 3 last night before going to bed:
> 
> Jim Breaks/Adrian Street, WOS '72 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKmbPYlRx2g
> 
> ...


You should really hit ditch's site and ctrl+f anything that says RINGS (90s) or Battlarts (90s & 05-11), that's heaven, dude. Tamura is basically the boss of bosses. There's an incredible Backlund '98 mini-tour (four matches) in Battlarts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlund in Battlarts eludes me. If apparently on Ditch, then this will be seen.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Wrestlemania III


*The Can-Am Connection vs. Bob Orton and Don Muraco w/Mr. Fuji*
It was a good opener. Martel and Zenke didn’t do anything spectacular but they were quick, likable faces that worked well together as a team. A lot of the time it’s the heels that are the only ones that act like intelligent teams so it was nice to see the faces work just as smartly as the heels. Orton and Muraco were OK I guess, they let the faces get in offense which made this entertaining at least. I can’t say either of them did anything that impressive. 
****


*Hercules w/Bobby Heenan vs. Billy Jack Haynes* 
I did find it highly amusing that Hercules’ gimmick is that he actually thinks he’s Hercules, as in he thinks he’s the half-god son of Zeus. There was a great looking clothesline in the match but other than that it wasn’t all that good. Both guys used the full nelson as their finisher so the match was all about locking that it. Here’s what was really funny about the match, you had these 2 roided up monsters and both were so big that they couldn’t actually lock in the full nelson because their shoulders and necks were so big. Since they couldn’t lock it in the hold looked terrible whenever they did it. The match wasn’t all bad, did I mention there was a great clothesline? Also Haynes sold pretty well and made it seem like all of the offense Hercules got in matter.
**¾ *


*King Kong Bundy, Lord Littlebrook, and vs. Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver, and the Haiti Kid*
Bundy hitting a big splash on Little Beaver was pretty funny. Other than that I don’t really have anything good to say about the match. The minis weren’t that impressive. I’ve seen a lot of Mexican minis and they can do some amazing things. These guys appeared to be minis that had stereotypical characters and they didn’t do much. At least the ending was funny. 
***


*“King” Harley Race w/Bobby Heenan and The Fabulous Moolah vs. The Junkyard Dog*
Race sold JYD’s offense pretty well. Yeah that’s really all there is to say about this as it was like a 4 minute match with a somewhat screwy finish.
*¾**


*The Rougeau Brothers vs. The Dream Team w/Dino Bravo*
There was almost no substance to this. Both teams worked smartly but other than crisp and quick double team moves there is nothing to this.
***


_Hair vs. Hair_
*“Adorable” Adrian Adonis w/Jimmy Hart vs.”Rowdy” Roddy Piper*
Piper is usually fun to watch even if he’s in a short match. He just fights like a lunatic regardless of whether he’s the face or the heel and it’s usually great to see. Piper just beats the shit out of Adrian and Jimmy Hart for most of the match. Adonis gets some offense in with an absurd amount of help and it actually looks like he’s going to steal win for a few seconds. Piper was entertaining and the “Adorable” gimmick was turned down a few notches from the previous year’s Wrestlemania which was a plus. Adrian did show flashes of what he could really do in the ring. I would be curious to find some older matches of his from elsewhere where he gets more time in his matches. 
***1/4*


*The Hart Foundation and Danny Davis vs. The British Bulldogs and Tito Santana*
The entire match was focused around Danny Davis. Everyone wanted to see Santana or a Bulldog get in the ring with Davis. And for most of the match he avoided that. I loved how he would get in the ring for a few seconds, kick someone, and tag out again. It really pissed off the crowd as well. The Hart Foundation spent a majority of the match controlling Dynamite Kid and that was done well enough. The hot tag was great because it came when Davis was in the ring and he got the ass kicking that everyone wanted to see. Finishing stretch was chaotic and frustrating, but in a good way. Best match of the night so far, which isn’t saying much, as it told a really solid story about the faces trying to get revenge of the guy that screwed them out of their titles. 
***¾ *


*Butch Reed w/Slick vs. Koko B. Ware*
Seeing Frankie was the best part of the match. He’s such a cool looking bird. The match itself was shit.
*DUD*


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*“Macho Man” Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat w/George “The Animal” Steele*
I wish I could go and call this a classic. In fact it probably would be a classic if George Steele wasn’t involved in this at all. He added nothing positive to the match and ended up making the heel champion look like an underdog and make Steamboat look weak. The finish of this match is horrible but everything leading up to it (aside from Steele literally picking Steamboat up and throwing him into the ring to stop him from being counted out) was brilliant. Savage in control was done perfectly as he managed to get heat while keeping the match interesting with some really good offense. 

The comeback was also really unique. Steamboat sends Savage over the top rope out of nowhere. Everyone in the arena suddenly knew that Steamboat was back in the match. The tide turned so badly that suddenly Savage was the one desperately trying to hold on to his title. I loved the exchange of roll ups and nearfalls as it really captured how bad both of them wanted to win.

And then there was the ref bump and everything went to hell. It’s like being served an amazing dinner and being served an amazing dessert and right before you take a bite of the dessert the waiter proceeded to spit right into your dessert. It was so bad, Steamboat is pretty much pinned and then Steele gets in and basically screws Savage out of the match. This was so good but the finishing stretch was SO bad. It’s not like Mind Games where they told an amazing story without a finish, this was a wrestling classic where the face was supposed to get the big win. Its so hard to give this a good rating when it left such a sour taste in my mouth. But I have to recognize that 80% of this match was total brilliance. Actually that seems fair, 80% of perfection….
******


*Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. The Honky Tonk Man w/Jimmy Hart*
Matches that last 5 minutes should never be boring. This was shockingly boring. The Honky Tonk Man controlling the match was just the worst thing ever. Even Jake’s comeback was unexciting. And the ending was hilarious. I laughed when Jake had the match won and Hart grabbed his leg to stop the DDT. The ref was standing right there and saw all of this and did not seem to give a single shit. He didn’t even yell at Hart for getting involved. Horrible.
*DUD*


*The Killer Bees w/”Hacksaw” Jim Duggan vs. The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff w/Slick*
Almost totally pointless. Some decent enough heel work from the Sheik and Volkoff and the Bees were OK enough as faces. I guess it wasn’t totally terrible though. 
*½** 


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Hulk Hogan(c) vs. Andre The Giant w/Bobby Heenan*
This isn’t easy to rate. It’s one the most legendary matches and features one of wrestling’s most iconic moments. It’s the standard for Hulk Hogan wrestling monsters. And it’s a standard that I don’t think has been truly surpassed. Andre just couldn’t or didn’t do very much in the ring but he did do something special here. Hogan looked like he was in serious jeopardy from the opening bell, I loved the failed bodyslam attempt to start the match. Saying what happened after isn’t really neccesarry because we’ve all seen it. Hogan gets his ass kicked for a long time and then makes the comeback. It’s just that this time the comeback was bigger than ever and it led to a moment that can never be forgotten. The match is special. It’s not “good” when looking at a lot of the normal standards but I can’t give this match a bad rating because it was so special.
*****​

Savage/Steamboat was great and the main event is something that I think everyone has to make sure that they’ve see at least once. Too bad nothing else on the card is really worth seeing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To add to the discussion, I would highly recommend also looking into any lucha you can find if you want some exquisite mat work, cjack. Specifically, go take the time to watch El Dandy do his thing. He's not just a punchline to a Bret Hart joke; he's top of the line. Go watch these when you can:

El Dandy vs. Javier Llanes (2/22/94 and 3/11/94)
Pantera vs. Felino (12/27/94)
El Dandy vs. ***** Casas (7/5/92)
Atlantis vs. Emilio Charles (8/11/92)
El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (6/1/90)
***** Casas vs. Ultimo Dragon (3/19/93)

Not all of these are strictly mat clinics. A lot of these escalade into brawls. I'm on mobile now so I can't recommend too many things. But El Dandy :lenny


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Andre/Hansen is a genuine contender for the best match of the 80s for me. Vader/Hansen is very fun, very watchable stuff that wouldn't crack a top 200 of the 90s.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> CJack, check this beauty out:


:lmao wtf that's so awesome thanks man. "I'm as tough as Marciano and as sexy as Mae West" "I hate Joan Collins but love her taste in her clothes" "A butch or a bitch, I can't make up my mind". That's what I liked about Street from what I saw, how he comes off as this total fairy which kinda makes him seem like a comic heel. The crowd laughs, everyone thinks it's funny and he can't be taken too seriously or generate real heat. THEN he does something out right nasty, and that's when people start getting pissed. It's one thing to have a fairy dance around the ring, it's quite another for him to sneak punches, rake the eyes, and brutalize the beloved baby face. I'm definitely gonna need to watch some more of him.



funnyfaces1 said:


> To add to the discussion, I would highly recommend also looking into any lucha you can find if you want some exquisite mat work, cjack. Specifically, go take the time to watch El Dandy do his thing. He's not just a punchline to a Bret Hart joke; he's top of the line. Go watch these when you can:
> 
> El Dandy vs. Javier Llanes (2/22/94 and 3/11/94)
> Pantera vs. Felino (12/27/94)
> ...



That's actually my favorite style of match. Something that starts off with working good snug holds and sound mat technique, then something happens to get the baby face pissed and it turns into a heated brawl till the finish. That's why I was so ape over that COTC Steiners/MVC tag Yeah1993 pimped. It's a perfect example of that style. Great holds and sound amateur mat wrestling to start, then Dr. Death does something Rick doesn't like so Rick shoots an incredibly quick double leg and starts dropping bombs on Doc's face. Then it's an all out war until the finish. It was perfection really. I'll be checking these out for certain, thanks man.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

What is the best Ambrose vs. Rollins match in your opinion guys?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

NastyYaffa said:


> What is the best Ambrose vs. Rollins match in your opinion guys?


Their 30 minute FCW 15 championship match is definitely their best. Do yourself a favour though and watch all three of their championship matches in order. It'll show why their third match is an absolute classic.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Then watch their Super Eight tournament match then their Florida Heavyweight title match in 2012 b/c their chemistry is so superb and everything they ever do together is fantastic.

Arguably the best chemistry in the company.

Also, holy shit @ Finlay/Callihan + Rotten/Hero links, my night sorted. Heard so much about the latter but never seen it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hero/Rotten is pretty surreal tbh. Rotten actually works really well on the mat, but being IWA-MS there's a lot of rugged and physical exchanges which give the matwork a real gritty atmosphere. Whole thing feels like a really good way to communicate struggle, whilst also offering some vicious holds and counters which get across that both men can and will hurt each other. Hero sells really well as I recall when his leg gets targeted. Really great match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When did this take place?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

2002 in IWA-MS. It's legitimately an eye opener for anyone who thinks Rotten is just some fat bellend who's a scummy promoter and can only work matches where he endulges in self-mutilation. He really works the mat terrificly and people thinking Hero might be the one carrying the grappling will be shocked. He doesn't have the grace of a ballerina or anything, but his rugged and ungraceful grappling really is something I like to see.

He has an even better match vs Tarek The Great in the same year apparently, though I've not seen the match myself.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh, I thought this was recent since Hero got let go by WWE. 

I wouldn't mind checking this out, actually.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLiEZ_9tZA

Credit goes to everyone's favourite afro-australian, Yeah1993


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb Thanks Yeah.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLiEZ_9tZA
> 
> Credit goes to everyone's favourite afro-australian, Yeah1993



Have you seen Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival yet? One of the finest WWE matches I've seen in years. Zayn as the under dog vying for the respect of the mighty Cesaro, and Cesaro begrudgingly in the end showing that Zayn had earned his admiration was such a classic story but executed to almost perfection. Regal was wonderful on commentary, voicing the internal struggles of the performers and the motivations of every hold and counter. It's not a mat based match at all really, but it's exceedingly well fought and the comebacks by Zayn are timed and executed as well as any I've seen. Zayns selling of the leg was as good as I've seen in recent years, almost Undertaker-esque.

Cesaro/Regal from 12/13 NXT wasn't quite on the same level, but it was way more a classic hold based affair and certainly an excellent match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

SKINS said:


> ^^ Check [Ryback's] matches out w/ Cena/Bryan/Sheamus on smackdown, and the raw bryan match as well


Do you have the dates for these?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Have you seen Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival yet? One of the finest WWE matches I've seen in years. Zayn as the under dog vying for the respect of the mighty Cesaro, and Cesaro begrudgingly in the end showing that Zayn had earned his admiration was such a classic story but executed to almost perfection. Regal was wonderful on commentary, voicing the internal struggles of the performers and the motivations of every hold and counter. It's not a mat based match at all really, but it's exceedingly well fought and the comebacks by Zayn are timed and executed as well as any I've seen. Zayns selling of the leg was as good as I've seen in recent years, almost Undertaker-esque.
> 
> Cesaro/Regal from 12/13 NXT wasn't quite on the same level, but it was way more a classic hold based affair and certainly an excellent match.


I haven't, as I've been slacking terribly with watching wrestling these days.

I've not seen anything from WWE/NXT post Battleground aside from Bryan/Wyatt and Shield/Wyatts I and II and the Chamber. So seen none of the Bryan/Shield/Wyatt Family tags from October onwards of last year, not seen any of Cesaro's pimped matches this year, not seen Cesaro/Regal, the Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans tag etc etc.

I make a bid to set a day aside but then I always get occupied with other things. I do want to watch them sooner or later however.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Bloody hell WOOLENPENIS where have you been forever?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bubz said:


> Bloody hell WOOLENPENIS where have you been forever?


I was keeping up to date with all the results and matches being praised, which is probably more mad. But with work I really only had a few hours in the evenings to myself and that was usually spent ploughing through TV shows or doing sod all, so matches kept being put off until suddenly I had about 15-20 matches if not more I needed to see, due to WWE's alarming consistency on a weekly basis nowadays.

The PPV matches I honestly only saw because I watched both live, and in the case of Shield/Wyatts II I was about to head off for bed but it came on just as I contemplated it, so I figured I'd watch that there and then.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK watch Cesaro/Zayn asap pls.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I shall watch it tonight. Welshman's honour. ha, that means nothing


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That doesn't mean much, does it? :side:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Woah what's with the xenophobia?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just a slight jab.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just downloaded the Race/Mascaras match from 1980 that looks like a promising brawl. Sweet.


And all that Adrian Street talk made me think about one and only Adrian Adonis.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Just a slight jab.


I suppose I've slung enough Lennon comments your way to be a deserving recipient of some return banter. Fair play


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Truce?

But seriously, I'd be very interested in reading a write-up of your thoughts on Cesaro/Zayn if you find the time. 

Here's a link to my thoughts (contains spoilers). I'm sure yours will be written a bit more eloquently, though. 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-show-discussion-thread-717.html#post30800554


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## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

(Y) Will give that a read after I watch the match. I'm occupied atm but I should be ready to have a gander at it in an hour or so


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb

Yeah, definitely don't read my running diary until after you watch.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> (Y) Will give that a read after I watch the match. I'm occupied atm but I should be ready to have a gander at it in an hour or so



Having read some of you're well thought out match write ups, I'm quite sure you could write a doctorate thesis on the subtleties and story of Cesaro/Zayn Arrival. Be prepared to hear GREAT commentary for the first time on a WWE sponsored PPV in a LONG time. Regal really does put everything over the top. If I had to listen to JBL and Cole ruin that match by bickering about some finite point in a storyline for a completely unrelated match during this contest, I might have commited seppuku with a butter knife.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I touched upon the commentary throughout my write-up. It really was the icing on the cake. Regal was, well...Regal. The others held their own and did their job just fine without detracting from the match.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah, in the original PM he asked for people/matches that resembled Finlay, Regal, Danielson etc so I went with some that were more European/Shoot orientated, and others that played to the violence and physicality such as Kawada/Hansen, Ishikawa/Ikeda etc.


That makes sense, even the not-really-''mat''-matches on there are kind of Finlay-ish. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> He has an even better match vs Tarek The Great in the same year apparently, though I've not seen the match myself.


Yeah, that's my US MOTY for 2002 and I thought it was much better than Hero/Rotten (which I still like a lot). Here's the link:

youtub.........

I really thought I uploaded it. :lmao

well......here's what I said on both?



> Finally re-watched Hero/Rotten after more than three years. I was never positive I was going to put it on my list no matter how much I liked it, and even if I still like it about as much as I did before – I am positive I won’t put it on my list. Still, it’s really good. Rugged and stiff and violent and trashy and really good. I didn’t dig the opening armbar stuff too much but once they starts applying holds and clubbing each other it gets to be all kinds of sloppy greatness. Some parts were sloppy in a bad way, yeah, but most parts were sloppy in a good way. Maybe it was the fact there was a maximum of twenty people watching this, but Ian Rotten really came off like a great, great vocal seller. Hero had some really cool vocal sells as well. On note of Hero, I really have no idea what he was hoping to accomplish by taping his leg the way he did. The leg shit overall was pretty awesome, though. As was this.
> 
> Ian Rotten v. Tarek the Great was fucking great. Just two greasy shitbags tying up with each other and having a grappling contest for twenty minutes. Stiffness on the headbutts and blows sound even stiffer when your pathetic excuse for an audience is 20 people. The vocal selling is also better, but I've seen great vocal selling in front of big audiences and they were not as good as this kind of vocal selling. This just felt like a legit fight. Not even two guys that didn't like each other or anything (thought they were cussing), but if I showed this to someone and said it was a low budget MMA show they’d probably believe me (to some degree...they'd prob believe it was a shoot, anyway). Rotten and Tarek would get out of holds by disgustingly turning the opponent’s body part, or just throwing fists wherever they’ll go. To me it was essentially a better version of Rotten v. Chris Hero and I thought this was better than Dragon v. Ki, too. 2002 US MOTY. All I need to figure out is where to rank it.....I'm starting to really hate contemplating where to rank the matches


I loved Ian v. Stratton from 03, too. Never saw the taped fist match. Or the matches with JC Bailey, or any of the multi-man matches. I need more Ian Rotten.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*WrestleMania 2000 review 

Match #1: The Big Boss Man and Bull Buchanan vs The Godfather and D’Lo Brown*

What in the actual fuck is this doing on the card? Thank god I own this event because I have a lot more patience to watch bad matches when I’m not watching it on a shitty torrent. You know usually they try to add a good match as the opener, but I guess they want to get all the shit out early. This was fucking boring and it’s an idiotic booking decision to have this open the show. The match that opens the show should be an exciting match so that it draws the crowd and people watching at home for the rest of the show, this did the exact opposite. This is just 4 subpar workers working a terrible match that had no flow and honestly was boring from start to finish, even the hot tags were boring because none of the 4 guys can move quickly at all, they are actually all slow as fuck. So yeah I should have skipped this because it sucked horribly, heels go over in the end, have a feeling this will be a trend for the rest of the night. *DUD 

CAL SCALE: 0

Match #2: Hardcore battle royal 
*
Looking forward to this because I can see it being a match just full of fun spots, the hardcore division was full of fun workers at this point and this provided a fun way to all these guys on the card. Think there is like 15 or so guys in this match so really pumped to see this. This match was loads of fun the entire 15 minutes of the match. It wasn’t a traditional battle royal but more like a CW open and it fit these competitors perfectly, just a shitload of fun. Tazz was the star of this match though, he was just beating the shit out of EVERYONE basically the entire match but everyone in the match did pretty well and the ending was hilarious. Hardcore Holly got a jar of candy and smashed it over the head of Tazz as the clock winded down for the win :lmao. Always funny to see the little guy win in a match with people like Tazz and Viscera, good match overall. ***3/4*

*CAL SCALE: 1

Match #3: T&A vs Al snow and Trish Stratus *

OK, bringing out a guy dressed as a piece of cheese was stupid, but the name of the team was head cheese but that still makes no sense. There is a sign in the crowd that says Trish: Show me your T&A :lmao that might be the GOAT sign. Looking forward to this, woudn’t say any of these workers are bad at all, maybe a little past their prime(for Snow and Blackman anyways) but a better match will be had then the opener I assume. FUN FACT: this is the first ever ppv appearance for Trish Stratus, as she had just debuted weeks before this. Decent match, and certainly better than the opener I hated with a passion. But this was perfectly enjoyable. ***1/2*

*CAL SCALE: 1*

*Match #4: Edge and Christian vs The Dudleyz vs the Hardyz *

:mark: I have never seen this match before but apparently this is AWESOME and better than the overrated WM 17 match. Pretty pumped for this though and I’m glad I get to finally see it, hopefully it will be worth the wait. Fuck me this match is much better than the WM 17 match, maybe just because of the novelty match and the fact that it basically started a tradition of matches(TLC) and was the first ladder match of its kind basically, also started a three team rivalry that would culminate at mania a year later(well I guess the SD match was after but still). Classic match no doubt, an underrated one due to how awesome the TLC matches ended up being, but I would put this above TLC II a year later for sure.* **** *

*CAL SCALE:5

Match #5: Terri vs The Kat 

NO *

*CAL SCALE: -1

Match #6: Too Cool (Grand Master Sexay and Scotty 2 Hotty) and Chyna vs The Radicalz (Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn and Dean Malenko)*

Possibility for a solid match here, I doubt it touches the awesomeness of the tag title match but since There are really 5 solid workers in this match and a pretty good female as well there is a possibility for a surprise here. This was a pretty fun match, nothing too special but definitely the best 2v2 match of the night so far, it had a good pace and it was nice to FINALLY see a babyface team get over after heels going over all fucking nice, crowd finally got up off there asses for once. Overall and above . *****

*CAL SCALE: 2 

Match #7: Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit 
*
Apparently this match sucks, thank god I know that going in because this match could have been fucking fantastic. I read in Jericho’s book that he hates his performance in this match, so it must not be anything special at all. This is also a 2/3 falls match where one fall is for one title and the other is for the other, IDK what the fuck that all means, but all I care about if the match is GOOD as I don’t really cares who wins a match 14 years old. Eh didn’t think this was too bad, probably because I had ridiculously low expectations for this, which always helps enhance your viewing experience. That being said it was still a pretty bad match, it just wasn’t special and I’m pretty sure the crowd was confused about the whole stip being that two titles are on the line and their were two different winners, I know I was confused for a bit there as well. Anyways average match and nothing really at all here but it wasn’t a dud or anything like that. ***1/2 *

*CAL SCALE: 1 

Match #8: DX vs Rikishi and Kane *

Rikishi and Kane were a tag team? What a strange team, especially when you consider the fact that Rikishi was already on a team with 2 cool. I also have no idea who the heels are as Road dogg cuts promos that are naturally faceish anyways, even when he is supposed to be a heel(2014 fpalm). Well this match was boring and really short, the stinkfaces and bronco busters both happening in the same match made this extremely disgusting at times too :lol. Although when Rikishi kicked out I :mark: out because it was really awesome. But yeah this only lasted 3-4 minutes so they really couldn’t get much going here unfortunately. But the Stinkface on torrie was hilarious but this ended up being simple filler. ** *

*CAL SCALE: 0 

Match #9: The Big Show vs Mick Foley vs The Rock vs HHH 
*
You know, I have never seen this(it seems like it would be good) but I think its awesome that Foley at least got to main event mania one time, as I’m sure it is something he wanted from the time he entered the company. Now, hopefully the match is at least the #2 match of the night, luckily, it doesn’t have too much competition, it just has to be around the *** mark :lol. LOL at Big Show getting buried by getting out 5 minutes in, pretty pathetic to have the FUCKING GIANT get out first :lmao. I actually thought this match was fucking awesome, it was a little clunky at times and I thought inserting Big Show into the match was a little pointless and it wasn’t Foley’s BEST match ever, though he did a decent job, the table spot was pretty cool. Otherwise I thought Rock and HHH both brought their A game(should have been them in a singles match tho) and the match was enjoyable throughout the entire match which is impressive for its length(40 minutes). Last 20 minutes with just the rock and HHH were for sure the best but the whole thing was fun as fuck. McMahon family drama was pretty fun and Vince turning on Rock was awesome. Oh and Steph was looking FINE tonight btw. HHH winning was a different way to end mania too, overall I thought this match was awesome and I think people underrate it a good bit. ****3/4*

*CAL SCALE:4

FINAL CAL SCALE: 13 

Current 2000 PPV rankings 

1: Judgment day (20)
2: The Royal Rumble (17)
3: WrestleMania 2000(13)
3: Insurrextion (8.5)
*​


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## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Other people that aren't Cal are using the 'Cal Scale'? Wow. Who knew that man was such a trend setter .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I *AM* awesome.

Awesomely depressed! 



:lmao


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

"This match was just two greasy shit bags tying up with each other" :lmao


This is why I love reading your reviews Yeah. Leave the excellent grammar and exceptional prose to WOOLCOCK, you have the adjectives and non sequitur, flow of consciousness style down pat. And Cal is the King of funny observations and one liners. You guys should start a website/newsletter. I'd read your stuff over trash like Meltzer and Keller any day of the week.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Then what am I? :hmm:

Hopefully I will gain that level of quality reviews one day :hb


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks for the confidence boost Skins :lol


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## H (Aug 15, 2011)

lel Skins

Shoot, you'd think Angle/Benoit/Jericho being in the same match would result in something good, but apparently that's not the case at Mania. Also the stip with the titles and 2/3 falls is :lmao I remember not disliking the main event as much I thought I would. Didn't rate it as high as you had it, but maybe about ***-***1/2 or something. Still don't think Foley/Show being in that match was necessary. They should have just ended the Rock/Show stuff at No Way Out, and Foley didn't need to be there. He went out with a great program with Hunter, so coming right back a month after "retiring" was unncessary, main eventing Mania or not.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> "This match was just two greasy shit bags tying up with each other" :lmao
> 
> 
> This is why I love reading your reviews Yeah. Leave the excellent grammar and exceptional prose to WOOLCOCK, you have the adjectives and non sequitur, flow of consciousness style down pat. And Cal is the King of funny observations and one liners. You guys should start a website/newsletter. I'd read your stuff over trash like Meltzer and Keller any day of the week.




A blog where a few of us contribute is a cool idea, but we couldn't even keep our own separate blogs going. Well I guess Cal still does but it's more than just writing about wrestling. WOOLCOCK had a blog but I have zero idea how long it lasted or if it's still going. I think my last post was in June of 2012.

Andy's is still running after four years. FOUR years. And he makes sure to post things in it that he doesn't post anywhere else so I pretty much have to go there. What an asshole. Finish Demon's Souls, you wuss.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm the guy who posts a review every 4 months or so :hb


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH i agree it should have just been Rock/hhh but for some reason I thought the match was really good, almost gave it 4 stars. 

Might start Armageddon 2002 just to get the shit out of the way, all I know is final two will be FL and BL


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XX:*

John Cena vs Big Show - ★★★¼
World Tag Team Championship - ★
Christian vs Chris Jericho - ★★★¾
Evolution vs Rock n Sock Connection - ★★★½
Playboy Evening Gown - 0
Cruiserweight Open - ★★½
Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar - ½★
WWE Tag Team Championship - ★
Victoria vs Molly Holly - ★¼
Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Kane - ★★
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★★

CAL SCALE: 23

Even though I enjoy it overall, this is a tough show to sit through because of how long it is. I only watched because today was its tenth year anniversary.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I shall watch it tonight. Welshman's honour. ha, that means nothing


Don't you tease me. 

I've slacked on a 10,000 write up of the match myself, so I'm none better.

:lmao legit missed the white text until I posted this.


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## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I missed it too and I called him out on that :lmao


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those sneaky Welshman.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I literally have not watched any of the Cesaro/Zayns. Any of them.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I want to know what you do w/your time, Jheri.

k, finally rewatched Muta vs Chono from Starrcade 1992. It's still fine by me. Mediocre for what it could have been, sure. But it's worked under a feasible guise. A prime example of a match where I often ask the question: do you want to see a match worked smart or do you want to see a match worked to completely entertain? This is logistically and not preference, mind you. b/c w/JR constantly plugging away on Chono's inspired mat game, why wouldn't he stick to that the entire match? The ground work/submission exchanges were ok for what they were, and I can feel that way b/c it was a constant stalemate. Neither guy had a distinct control phase. Nothing was too significantly worked on, so the ebb & flow among both (which slowly paced) was there. I normally hate crap like this, but these two did it on a decent level. And they used each hold or ground work to fall into a difference sequence, like the superplex spot for example. Unlike some other matches where all they do is randomly trade holds w/o rhyme or reason & then a finish is hit and it's over. At least here Muta attempts the moonsault, misses, tweaks the knee, and the boom. Easy prey for the eventual STF. It's an above average match at best, yet, i'm totally fine w/it. Point being, is b/c apparently maybe someone - or a lot - dislike it. Could have been so much worse. Like as if they _(well, Muta)_ didn't want to work twice. I didn't feel that.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rotten/Hero still holds up. Too bad I can't find Tarek/Rotten.

I guess my problem with Muta/Chono is that I didn't feel like it had that ebb and flow. Sure, they maintained that slow pace, but there was so much stalling that it stopped looking like a match to me, let alone a world title match. There was one specific part of the match where Chono had Muta in an armbar for a good minute, but Muta did not bother looking like he was in a struggle or in pain. And then he ignores all work done on his arm and just locks in another resthold. Soon after, Chono discovered that Muta had an injured knee, but instead of attacking that knee, he just tossed Muta to the outside a couple times in order to stall even more. And then for reasons that I do not know, Muta forgets that he has an injured knee, which leads to Chono doing another long and boring armbar where Muta looks like he's sleeping rather than in pain. And that's really the theme of the match. Neither man put any effort in making their moves look like they hurt or sell consistently. One minute, you'll see Muta doing superplexes and somersaults, and then the next minute, he limps around. The only thing I really liked about the match was when Muta tweaked his knee on the moonsault, which FINALLY leads to Chono actually targeting the knee that was supposedly hurt the entire match. Thank goodness they made up this match with the awesome one a month later.


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