# Jim Cornette and Vince Russo are the reason why internet wrestling fans crap on AEW



## AEW_19 (May 15, 2019)

I think half of it comes from being serious and the other half knows that it gets him views. He says that he is done with the show every other week then still talks about it. To be fair, WWE has the same problem with people hate-watching shows. It's something that I can't understand.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

AEW_19 said:


> I think half of it comes from being serious and the other half knows that it gets him views. He says that he is done with the show every other week then still talks about it. To be fair, WWE has the same problem with people hate-watching shows. It's something that I can't understand.


Exactly why would you watch something that you hate? With Russo and Cornette its even worse because they're both in their 60s and could spend their time left on this earth doing something more meaningful. Its obvious that they want one last run with a major wrestling promotion


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

Based on whats been happening, most people dont really care what Cornette or Russo have to say. AEW's viewership is slowly increasing. They both should STFU and enjoy the fact that we do have an AEW to talk about.


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## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

The vast majority of internet wrestling fans that I’ve seen hate both Cornette and Russo, so I doubt that.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

The_It_Factor said:


> The vast majority of internet wrestling fans that I’ve seen hate both Cornette and Russo, so I doubt that.


Yes but their cult followers are busy at work trying to make AEW seem incompetent. This Forum was filled with Cornette and Russo parrots and the AEW section suffered because of it. You couldnt even come here to talk positively about AEW without getting attacked


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## Charzhino (Nov 20, 2007)

I dont believe Cornette is trying to get a job anywhere. He says he is happily retired and makes good money from his website and doing the podcast from the comfort of his own home. The reason he has a large following because he knows the business inside out and people want to hear him express his opinions, which he can do very articulately in a manner that few others can. Who else has such a rich wealth of experience in the industry he has as a non-wrestling talent? He has been with nearly every promotion since the 80s in one form or another and effectively had his own in OVW.


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

I enjoy his podcast and I enjoy AEW.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Charzhino said:


> I dont believe Cornette is trying to get a job anywhere. He says he is happily retired and makes good money from his website and doing the podcast from the comfort of his own home. The reason he has a large following because he knows the business inside out and people want to hear him express his opinions, which he can do very articulately in a manner that few others can. Who else has such a rich wealth of experience in the industry he has as a non-wrestling talent? He has been with nearly every promotion since the 80s in one form or another and effectively had his own in OVW.


Got fired from almost every promotion he worked for including OVW, and SMW went out of business.


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## Bret'Hitman'Hart (Jun 16, 2020)

Who really gives a fuck what either of those clowns say. People influenced by the opinions of those two are worthless to me.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

They're both pretty annoying I agree. I don't listen to either of their podcasts, but Meltzer does seem to have a lot of insider info so his articles are read-worthy every now and then.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

People would crap on AEW without Corny or Russo for a variety of other reasons, such as:

1. They’re not WWE (and the inverse of this exists as well)
2. They take little shots all the time (and sometimes they’re justified)
3. Some of their programming and booking is suspect.
4. They barely have a women’s division.

Point being, even without these 2, fans would still find shit to complain about whether it’s justified or not.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

No. AEW is the reason wrestling fans crap on AEW. Neither Cornette or Russo matter as I’ve managed to tune them out, although Cornette is a strong speaker.

Even Konnan’s been critical of AEW at times, and he’s a part of AAA, whose in a partnership with AEW. If even your own partners are critical, its worth examining what's wrong.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Charzhino said:


> I dont believe Cornette is trying to get a job anywhere. He says he is happily retired and makes good money from his website and doing the podcast from the comfort of his own home. The reason he has a large following because he *knows the business inside out *and people want to hear him express his opinions, which he can do very articulately in a manner that few others can. Who else has such a rich wealth of experience in the industry he has as a non-wrestling talent? He has been with nearly every promotion since the 80s in one form or another and effectively had his own in OVW.


That's not true, outside of the States his knowledge is weak. Look at his comments on the passing of Rollerball Rocco last week, "the Black Tiger gimmick was cool" - well thanks for that insight Jim. Brian was more knowledgeable and respectful.

When Cornette was shitting on the Stadium Stampede match he kept saying AEW were copying WWE, when it was clearly influenced by DDT. I don't expect him to be an expert on DDT, but if you're going to comment on modern wrestling at least be aware of them and their style. Hell, he didn't even know Robert Stone wrestled in TNA for years, even though Cornette spent time working for TNA during that time.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Nah AEW would still get hate, because it doesn't appeal to fans that think wrestling has strayed too far from what it used to be. Cornette, Russo, Meltzer, and Alvarez do have the problem of they all obviously pander a bit to what their audience wants to here. 

Though the funniest thing is Cornette was widely beloved with hardcore fans until he had a negative opinion on The Elite. When he was doing the same over the top rants about Russo and the WWE or saying HHH was the guy that worked with the guy, there wasn't an issue with him liking old school stuff and the old ways. When he was shitting on Russo for helping to usher in one if the most popular eras of wrestling, he was a guy who understood what "real wrestling" was all about. But now that he's shitting on a certain product in one of the least popular eras of wrestling "he's old and stuck in the past".


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

AthleticGirth said:


> That's not true, outside of the States his knowledge is weak. Look at his comments on the passing of Rollerball Rocco last week, "the Black Tiger gimmick was cool" - well thanks for that insight Jim. Brian was more knowledgeable and respectful.
> 
> When Cornette was shitting on the Stadium Stampede match he kept saying AEW were copying WWE, when it was clearly influenced by DDT. I don't expect him to be an expert on DDT, but if you're going to comment on modern wrestling at least be aware of them and their style. Hell, he didn't even know Robert Stone wrestled in TNA for years, even though Cornette spent time working for TNA during that time.


To be fair, no one wants to remember large swaths of TNA.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Russo is useless. I have not heard a single thing he has said about AEW, nor do I care to. He is a glorified wanna be reality show TV writer. He has never run a promotion, booked a product, nor does he have any knowledge of the business.

For Cornette, he is an amazing wrestling historian for major promotions (no one cares about DDT and play fighting dolls). Even if you do not agree with him on AEW, it is well worth listening to him on the older days and promotions. He and Dave used to talk all the time about that stuff until Dave became a (probably) paid shill.

For me, I find Cornette entertaining even if I do not agree with everything he says. Do people only listen or watch things they agree with 100% of the time? As long as I am mostly entertained by something I usually watch it. That is how both Cornette and AEW are.

And AEW is the reason why they get crapped on. People loved when Cornette rightly critiqued how bad WWE has gotten but when he started to apply the same logic and thought process to their favorite flippers in AEW, suddenly he was a "hater." AEW CHOSE to present Marko Stunt, OC, Nakazawa, Sonny Kiss, Jelly, a legless man, etc on their product. And it rightly has been heavily criticized as it should be whether or not Cornette exists. He is hardly the only one. And to their credit, they have mostly improved their product as a result. This is in contrast to WWE where Vince is going to be Vince because not only has Vince never listened to any podcast from anyone ever, as JR recently said, he has likely never watched a full episode of his own product! And it shows!

So please, stop blaming Cornette and even Russo for people criticizing AEW. They have zero power over the product. They only live in your mind if you let them. AEW has been improving but still has some low hanging issues they need to address.


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> These 2 bitter hasbeens spend all of their time moaning about AEW on their podcasts. For some reason they both have cult followers that parrot everything they say and unfortunately the minority has the loudest voice.
> 
> What their cult followers don't understand is both these losers are trying to get jobs with AEW by heeling it up. They hope that by being contrarians they will be hated by the AEW fanbase and that will make them relevant again.


You're so wrong. You just cant comprehend that people find AEW disgustingly shit and offensive to what wrestling should be.

I have 90% the same opinion as cornette and the 10% difference includes him liking cody and darby allen. I don't get my opinion from him. The minority loud voices are actually the people who like AEW, there's tons more that would watch professional wrestling if it wasn't shit like WWE or indy like AEW.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

AEW being crap is the reason why internet fans crap on AEW.


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## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

They have every right to critic AEW. The product is garbage and caters to keyboard neckbeards


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Your opening a can of worms by making such a thread as it just gives a reason for people not keen on aew for whatever reason to do the thing that Russo and cornette are doing and that's criticise the aew product.

In defense of cornette slightly, aew is just not his cup his due to the style and performers featured in the product, though it's kinda funny that the products that cornette doesnt like tend do well and the ones that fit his ideology of good wrestling dont fair well with ratings.

The like of russo and Konnan with his buddies like diso inferno (like this guy's comments are remotely relevant) on his podcast come across as disliking aew purely on the basis of wanting to be anti-smark/hipsterish and they think all aew fans are this type.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

TheGreatBanana said:


> They have every right to critic AEW. The product is garbage and caters to keyboard neckbeards


Dude your on a fucking wrestling forum yourself.....


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Shit like this is why people shit on AEW.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/i3inc2

wtf is this? Who actually enjoys watching this? Who are they doing this for? Its not funny. Y'all can blame Russo and Cornette all you want


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> it is well worth listening to him on the older days and promotions. He and Dave used to talk all the time about that stuff until Dave became a (probably) paid shill.


A very hard pass on that. I have enough on my plate watching AEW. I don't feel that I need to know how many beers the Midnight Express had at a bar one night in 1978. Wrestling is something that I find more fun watching in the here and now rather than studying someone's career log from 30 years ago.

Cornette was more than probably Dave's stooge in the 80s and 90s. That must be why Big Dave tolerated his ass. Now he sees what everyone else sees. A delusional bitter old man yelling at the sky because his rasslin evolved just like everything else


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

No, it's because AEW just isn't that good. 

The Jericho/Cassidy segment was terrible last week.


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## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

Dizzie said:


> Dude your on a fucking wrestling forum yourself.....


Stfu. I ain’t a neckbeard who worships AEW like it’s the best thing ever. They have their good and bad much like any other promotion. They’re a BTEC promotion.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

NathanMayberry said:


> Shit like this is why people shit on AEW.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/i3inc2
> ...


Nothing wrong with a little sex appeal to draw in the LGBT community. It's not like AEW does this in every segment on the show


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Verbatim17 said:


> No. AEW is the reason wrestling fans crap on AEW. Neither Cornette or Russo matter as I’ve managed to tune them out, although Cornette is a strong speaker.
> 
> Even Konnan’s been critical of AEW at times, and he’s a part of AAA, whose in a partnership with AEW. If even your own partners are critical, its worth examining what's wrong.


Even Jr, Tazz and Jericho have crapped on it.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

I dont like Russo at all

I enjoy Cornette hugely, in fact his insights being they comedic or rantful can be very often spot on, he isnt perfect but he does have a passion and absolutely huge knowledge of wrestling even if to some that may be somewhat Old School but he does know the business inside out and has an awful lot to pass on
His comments actually got me interested in AEW from sheer wonder, feel some of his comments are more personal than actually warranted (Young Bucks, Omega) 

End of the day your not going to agree with everyone, whether thats wrestling, your boss, politics, religion


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> A very hard pass on that. I have enough on my plate watching AEW. I don't feel that I need to know how many beers the Midnight Express had at a bar one night in 1978. Wrestling is something that I find more fun watching in the here and now rather than studying someone's career log from 30 years ago.
> 
> Cornette was more than probably Dave's stooge in the 80s and 90s. That must be why Big Dave tolerated his ass. Now he sees what everyone else sees. A delusional bitter old man yelling at the sky because his rasslin evolved just like everything else


And no one is going to tell you to not listen to him if you do not like him whereas so many times on here people are told if they do not love every single thing about AEW, they should stop watching. It gets religious way too often around here complete with blasphemy laws and excommunication.

Dave is a shill and a hypocrite. At least Cornette is consistent in what he likes, which is going to be very different than what many other people like. And that is fine right?


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Nothing wrong with a little sex appeal to draw in the LGBT community. It's not like AEW does this in every segment on the show


By making your LGBT wrestlers look like clowns?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Nothing wrong with a little sex appeal to draw in the LGBT community. It's not like AEW does this in every segment on the show


Sexual assault is not sexual appeal. And way to stereotype. Do you think all gay guys just want to force random dudes' faces into their asses?


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Sexual assault is not sexual appeal.


So Bra and Panties matches weren't done for sex appeal?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> So Bra and Panties matches weren't done for sex appeal?


Apples and oranges. Forcing it on other people is the issue. Vince forcing Trish to strip and bark like a dog is closer to what they are doing here. Both are horrible.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Apples and oranges. Forcing it on other people is the issue. Vince forcing Trish to strip and bark like a dog is closer to what they are doing here. Both are horrible.



Some men are aroused when they see Sonny Kiss strutting his booty, so it is clearly intended for sex appeal. It was done in a very cute way and didn't look like an assault


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Some men are aroused when they see Sonny Kiss strutting his booty, so it is clearly intended for sex appeal. It was done in a very cute way and didn't look like an assault


You are amazingly missing the point. The point is not Sonny strutting, the point is him forcing another person's face into his ass. Literal sexual assault as a gimmick.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> You are amazingly missing the point. The point is not Sonny strutting, the point is him forcing another person's face into his ass. Literal sexual assault as a gimmick.


Well yeah, they're wrestling. What difference does it make if it's assault. Are you saying that sexual assault in a clearly choreographed and cute way can't be sexually appealing?


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Next time Penelope Ford has a match, we can do a spot where Kip gets into the ring, pins Penelope's opponent into the corner, and grinds on her in a "cute" and "clearly choreographed" way; sexual assault can be appealing after all.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Well yeah, they're wrestling. What difference does it make if it's assault. Are you saying that sexual assault in a clearly choreographed and cute way can't be sexually appealing?


YES, I AM saying that! If you get turned on by watching sexual assault in a movie or in a wrestling angle seek help immediately. Jesus, do I really need to type this?

"Sexual assault in a...cute way" Seriously?!?


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## Peggio Boys (Aug 7, 2019)

Vince Russo doesn't like any wrestling anymore, i don't know why he bothers talking about it.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Peggio Boys said:


> Vince Russo doesn't like any wrestling anymore, i don't know why he bothers talking about it.
> 
> Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


Vince Russo has never liked wrestling. He likes Jerry Springer and wanted to bring that INTO wrestling. Very big difference.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Well yeah, they're wrestling. What difference does it make if it's assault. Are you saying that sexual assault in a clearly choreographed and cute way can't be sexually appealing?


What ? xD That sure esculated quickly.


Anyone wanting to watch sexual assault in a wrestling ring can wattch Corney's old boy Adrian Street. It had a purpose because it was used to stun opponents into losing their cool and making mistakes. Very entertaining for it's day, but very much of it's day, the crowds were super into it. 

Sonny Kiss is trying to be sassy, flamboyant and proud of his sexuality in the ring. Mileage will vary on how successful you think he's doing at this. I don't think his act's too rapey, but it is going too Exotico for my taste.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

AthleticGirth said:


> What ? xD That sure esculated quickly.
> 
> 
> Anyone wanting to watch sexual assault in a wrestling ring can wattch Corney's old boy Adrian Street. It had a purpose because it was used to stun opponents into losing their cool and making mistakes. Very entertaining for it's day, but very much of it's day, the crowds were super into it.
> ...


If you dig enough and force people into a corner, pretty soon you can find out what they really think.

I do not find it rapey, but it is sexual assault. He is not doing it to humiliate his opponent like Rikishi did, though I hated that too, just for different reasons. He is doing it because he gets sexual gratification from it, like Joey Ryan wanting people to grab him. In my opinion there is no place for that anywhere, let alone in a worked combat scenario.

A separate argument can be made that this is going to turn off the majority of your audience. It bothers me more that they are making him, or rather he is choosing to make himself into a stereotype. Does that do anything at all for gay people? How about a guy who is a badass who happens to be gay? People are going to say, "well of COURSE that gay wrestler is strutting around with his ass hanging out and thrusting people's faces into it." Who does that help? In my opinion, it would be like a straight guy wanting to have matches with women and then going to press slam them but hold them up for extra time just so he could hold on to their boobs and crotch.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Nah people that hate AEW would still do it, but at least they would be more original instead of copy paste all Cornette opinions.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

I like AEW more than any other wrestling company right now, but I also enjoy both Russo and Cornette.

When did society become so disrespectful towards people who’ve been there and done that? 

I find them both more entertaining than any weekly wrestling show right now.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Makes sense. Two bitter old fools without a clue. 

"fLiPs bAd. pSyCHoLoGy gUd."


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## Y2K23 (Oct 10, 2019)

AEW_19 said:


> I think half of it comes from being serious and the other half knows that it gets him views. He says that he is done with the show every other week then still talks about it. To be fair, WWE has the same problem with people hate-watching shows. It's something that I can't understand.


 Because hating AEW is the new cool thing and it gets Him views and it gets people talking.

Him talking shit about WWE wont do anything for him because pretty much anyone with common sense knows WWE sucks and wont question it or care about it


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

NathanMayberry said:


> Shit like this is why people shit on AEW.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/i3inc2
> ...


I watch Dynamite every week and never saw that clip until now. Must be from Dark. This clip doesn't represent what AEW is about in the slightest.


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## Peggio Boys (Aug 7, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Vince Russo has never liked wrestling. He likes Jerry Springer and wanted to bring that INTO wrestling. Very big difference.


I don't know about that, he grew up with WWF, or at least he says so.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Peggio Boys said:


> I don't know about that, he grew up with WWF, or at least he says so.
> 
> Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


He does indeed say a lot of things.


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## Dab00g (Jul 7, 2020)

No vince russo ruined wcw and kept tna from ever going anywhere

Cornette just gave us the blessed term mudshow

People crap on aew not booking women. Treating non wwe guys as jobbers

Having a show that feels the same weekly.

They are booking safely in covid because it is a bad time for them as a new company to go outside the box.

The ratings reflect safe booking and building an audience

Nxt is more safe booking and keeping their audience

Raw and smackdown going outside the box because they are desperate for anything

Aew is mostly just okay wrestling. Like a two hour velocity

In fact most wrestling fans online hate russo and cornette for being antiquated assholes. Russo fans are fucking dumb. Cornette fans are fucking dumb.

Aew sucks for the same reason wwe sucks. No fans so all of this shit feels empty


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## You're A Ghost (Aug 7, 2020)

I enjoy the podcasts, but Cornette's negativity is more pronounced than Russo's. I respect Cornette but he sounds like an old school guy, that's stuck in the past, and hates everything. He literally said he fast forwards through the matches, gets up and walks away, and dotes on his dog, while he is supposed to be reviewing these shows. His opinion has to be taken with a grain of salt. He is entertaining but I'm not looking to him for objective reviews, and positivity, You won't get that from Cornette. You will get some really entertaining rants, though.


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## You're A Ghost (Aug 7, 2020)

AEW_19 said:


> I think half of it comes from being serious and the other half knows that it gets him views. He says that he is done with the show every other week then still talks about it. To be fair, WWE has the same problem with people hate-watching shows. It's something that I can't understand.


A wise man told me long ago "don't like, don't watch." If people are frustrated with wrestling, then turn it off, that's what I do.


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## Krin (Apr 8, 2018)

People would be crapping on AEW regardless because of just how indy it is, and not in a fun exciting way like early TNA.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

They both want to book it.. they are trying to create a job for them at AEW. "Bro its bad bro.. lemme fix it for you bro for a huge amount of money bro" thing. Anyone who listens to anyone else to create their opinions are dumb as fuck. Especially who listen to these two clowns.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

IronMan8 said:


> I like AEW more than any other wrestling company right now, but I also enjoy both Russo and Cornette.
> 
> When did society become so disrespectful towards people who’ve been there and done that?
> 
> I find them both more entertaining than any weekly wrestling show right now.


I don't find ether of them entertaining, and their opinions of AEW are almost exactly the same which makes me wonder how they even hate each other. They should be best friends

Disrespect? What about all the crap that they say about AEW and its fanbase? They both crap on Orange Cassidy when he proved that he's a ratings draw. They both hate the "flippy" wrestling when that style is far more entertaining than 5 minute restholds. They both hate everything about it but they both keep watching. The only difference is one is stuck in the 80s and the other is stuck in the 90s


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## You're A Ghost (Aug 7, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Nothing wrong with a little sex appeal to draw in the LGBT community. It's not like AEW does this in every segment on the show


But if women did it, it would be considered sexist, and misogynistic. SJW's and feminists would be in the streets with tiki torches claiming that it's exploitation of women. Sonny Kiss does it and no one bats an eye. That's pretty screwed up if you ask me.


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## Y2K23 (Oct 10, 2019)

Also, keep in mind.Cornette has been trying unsuccesfully to get a company over.for the better part of a decade .

And then here it comes AEW out of nowhere, with the little indy wrestlers and skinny Cody, and surpasses everything Hes' been trying to accomplish, and they did it effortlesslly and with a style of wrestling HE DOESNT LIKE.

Id' be pissed too.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't find ether of them entertaining, and their opinions of AEW are almost exactly the same which makes me wonder how they even hate each other. They should be best friends
> 
> Disrespect? What about all the crap that they say about AEW and its fanbase? They both crap on Orange Cassidy when he proved that he's a ratings draw. They both hate the "flippy" wrestling when that style is far more entertaining than 5 minute restholds. They both hate everything about it but they both keep watching. The only difference is one is stuck in the 80s and the other is stuck in the 90s


You lose all credibility when you think what Cornette wants is five minute rest holds. But you already lost all credibility when you said that clearly choreographed sexual assault done in a cute way could be sexually appealing.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> You lose all credibility when you think what Cornette wants is five minute rest holds. But you already lost all credibility when you said that clearly choreographed sexual assault done in a cute way could be sexually appealing.


It's a figure of speech

Cornette wants boring rasslin from 3 decades ago. The style he hates is actually exciting to some people. These athletes are insanely talented so why not show off their abilities? Why does wrestling have to always look super realistic? Everyone knows its fake. Give me impressive moves all day


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It's a figure of speech
> 
> Cornette wants boring rasslin from 3 decades ago. The style he hates is actually exciting to some people. These athletes are insanely talented so why not show off their abilities? Why does wrestling have to always look super realistic? Everyone knows its fake. Give me impressive moves all day


This same argument has been done to death on here. If you want to see flipping with no psychology or story telling, go watch some gymnastics videos. There IS a way to have a balance. I love Rey Mysterio who flips and flies all day. But he does not pop up 8 seconds after taking or giving a big move that should keep him down awhile. THAT is where a lot of the issue lies. Doing moves just to do moves is dumb and insulting. Doing every move you can in every match makes everything meaningless. Nothing to build to. Why would I buy a PPV if you give everything away on every show? You have to have meaning and places to build. This is simple, simple stuff and so many people miss it.

Maybe you would rather just watch people slam faces into asses? There are websites for that too.


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## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> This same argument has been done to death on here. If you want to see flipping with no psychology or story telling, go watch some gymnastics videos. There IS a way to have a balance. I love Rey Mysterio who flips and flies all day. But he does not pop up 8 seconds after taking or giving a big move that should keep him down awhile. THAT is where a lot of the issue lies. Doing moves just to do moves is dumb and insulting. Doing every move you can in every match makes everything meaningless. Nothing to build to. Why would I buy a PPV if you give everything away on every show? You have to have meaning and places to build. This is simple, simple stuff and so many people miss it.
> 
> Maybe you would rather just watch people slam faces into asses? There are websites for that too.



What the hell are you talking about? Rey and WCW Luchas wrestled the same way AEW does, and guess what it was the second best reason to watch Nitro

I don't want to watch gymnastic videos. I want exciting fictional battles not flips for the sake of points


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Rey and WCW Luchas wrestled the same way AEW does, and guess what it was the second best reason to watch Nitro
> 
> I don't want to watch gymnastic videos. I want exciting fictional battles not flips for the sake of points


Watching your average Bucks match is exactly the same as watching "flips for the sake of points" though. Having six guys who are supposed to hate each other standing around with their arms up waiting to catch a guy is not a battle AT ALL.

Mysterio and the WCW cruiserweights actually used psychology and story telling for the most part. You did not see Mysterio do a 450 off a ladder and then jump up to do a moonsault five seconds later. A non-stop car crash of moves that does not let your audience breathe and take in the story being told is what we hate. No one hates seeing cool moves, but they have to mean something. And on top of all that, if the guys doing said moves look like high school gymnasts or your average audience member, it makes the believably that much worse.


----------



## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

I see more people dogging on WWE than AEW on the internet. Most people consider Cornette and Russo to be jokes, who only appeal to 40-50 year old wrestling fans who suffer from arrested development by pining for the "old days" when they could still act like college fratboys and not get laughed at for being a middle aged fratboy like they do today


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't listen to Russo that guy is a clown. 

However Cornette is a wrestling genius and a historian of wrestling. He knows more than anyone on here. That's why people can't dissect what he actually says. They just refer to him as bitter. He also loves some modern wrestlers like FTR and MJF. 

I'm not bitter at all but wrestling did used to be better. Go back and watch wrestling in the 70's and 80's as there's not much footage before then. Some of the angles were incredible. Hogan vs Andre at Wrestlemania with Heenan building it up. Their match on SNME with the Hebner twins. Ole Andersons turn on Dusty, which had fans climbing the cage to get in the ring to save him. Arn and Tully vs the Midnight Express was incredibly built week after week. 
The matches and the angles made sense. Now it's a gymnastics routine and week to week booking.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It's a figure of speech
> 
> Cornette wants boring rasslin from 3 decades ago. The style he hates is actually exciting to some people. These athletes are insanely talented so why not show off their abilities? Why does wrestling have to always look super realistic? *Everyone knows its fake. Give me impressive moves all day*


That's the argument everybody always uses. And there is definitely merit in the argument that it's 2020 and the ship sailed on traditional in-ring wrestling several years ago. 

I think Cornette touched upon this the other day. Arguing that if self aware spot fest is so good, then why is it 'real' is the only thing that gets people talking post 2009. Whether that's Lesnar/Rousey or Pipe Bomb/Yes Movement or Undertaker's streak.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Hoo boy. An absolute shit ton of ignorance in this thread.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> What their cult followers don't understand is both these losers are trying to get jobs with AEW by heeling it up. They hope that by being contrarians they will be hated by the AEW fanbase and that will make them relevant again.


Cornette was offered a job with AEW and turned it down once he found out that Kenny and The Bucks would be involved.



AEW_19 said:


> I think half of it comes from being serious and the other half knows that it gets him views. He says that he is done with the show every other week then still talks about it. To be fair, WWE has the same problem with people hate-watching shows. It's something that I can't understand.


Actually he's only said he's done watching AEW once.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yes but their cult followers are busy at work trying to make AEW seem incompetent. This Forum was filled with Cornette and Russo parrots and the AEW section suffered because of it. You couldnt even come here to talk positively about AEW without getting attacked


I'm friendly with most of the so called "haters" from this section. Only two of us listen to Cornette regularly and one (The Wood) has left. That leaves one which is little old me and I post my opinions before Cornette's podcasts go live.

Might just need to eat the L here bro and accept that AEW at times are incompetent.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> Got fired from almost every promotion he worked for including OVW, and SMW went out of business.


Ignorance is showing again.

Continental - Left for something better.

Mid-South - Left.

WCCW - Left due to money.

JCP/WCW - Left due to problems creatively.

WWE - Demoted.

OVW - Fired.

TNA - Quit due to Vince Russo.

ROH - Left due to stress.

NWA - Left.

---

In regards to Smoky Mountain Wrestling yes it went out of business but is incredibly underrated by the internet wrestling community. Cornette took a roster featuring mainly big league castaways mixed in with released national level talent and turned it into the second biggest independent promotion in the country behind ECW and to be honest at one stage they were probably number one. It ran for 4+ years, launched many talents careers and showed just how good Cornette really is as a wrestling mind. Anyone bagging SMW has never seen it or doesn't get it.




AthleticGirth said:


> That's not true, outside of the States his knowledge is weak. Look at his comments on the passing of Rollerball Rocco last week, "the Black Tiger gimmick was cool" - well thanks for that insight Jim. Brian was more knowledgeable and respectful.
> 
> When Cornette was shitting on the Stadium Stampede match he kept saying AEW were copying WWE, when it was clearly influenced by DDT. I don't expect him to be an expert on DDT, but if you're going to comment on modern wrestling at least be aware of them and their style. Hell, he didn't even know Robert Stone wrestled in TNA for years, even though Cornette spent time working for TNA during that time.


Hmm, sorry mate but no.

Cornette has a strong education on everything but Lucha Libre. You mention Japan, the guy has Japanese programs in his house and has spoken about how he used to tape trade the Japanese stuff and that it featured stuff he'd never seen before.

DDT fucking sucks and is a large Japanese indy. To suggest he should know them is kind of silly.



Lheurch said:


> Sexual assault is not sexual appeal. And way to stereotype. Do you think all gay guys just want to force random dudes' faces into their asses?


I've known many gay guys in my life and they hate guys like Sonny Kiss (The character not the guy. The guy seems very cool). Sonny shaking his ass isn't doing anything for most gay men.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> What difference does it make if it's assault. Are you saying that sexual assault in a clearly choreographed and cute way can't be sexually appealing?


Oof.



DJ Punk said:


> Makes sense. Two bitter old fools without a clue.
> 
> "fLiPs bAd. pSyCHoLoGy gUd."


But they both have more of a clue than most. Even Russo who I haven't defended much in this post has a lot more knowledge than even AEW's best writer (Cody). 



Dab00g said:


> No vince russo ruined wcw and kept tna from ever going anywhere


Not to defend Russo but WCW was ruined before he turned up. Some of those shows (Starrcade 1999 is a great example) were horrendously boring. In regards to TNA, Russo helped them get their highest ratings ever and once he left the ratings dropped. Love him or hate him those in TNA would argue that he's a success.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't find ether of them entertaining, and their opinions of AEW are almost exactly the same which makes me wonder how they even hate each other. They should be best friends


How bad must AEW be for two guys who think completely differently about wrestling and hate one another to agree that it's bad and needs assistance?



Keister Fredrickson said:


> Cornette wants boring rasslin from 3 decades ago. The style he hates is actually exciting to some people. These athletes are insanely talented so why not show off their abilities? Why does wrestling have to always look super realistic? Everyone knows its fake. Give me impressive moves all day


At this point you need to stop talking about Cornette because you don't know what you're talking about.

He doesn't want "boring rasslin from 3 decades ago" he simply wants matches that make sense. Not super realistic, not devoid of athleticism or slowed down pace but just shit that makes sense.

For example, if Pentagon Jr is going to leap to the floor he should have a reason why. Is it late in the match and he's desperate? Is it his only option to win a competitive match up? Has he thrown everything he can at his opponent to the point that he needs to climb to the top rope and launch his body at him? That's what Cornette wants. He also doesn't want guys standing around waiting on the floor to catch a guy on a dive. At least sell something or be brawling when it happens.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Rey and WCW Luchas wrestled the same way AEW does, and guess what it was the second best reason to watch Nitro
> 
> I don't want to watch gymnastic videos. I want exciting fictional battles not flips for the sake of points


Rey and the WCW Luchas did not wrestle the same way AEW does. They had psychology and the matches were realistic.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

1. AEW could be the absolute best wrestling company, and there would still be people complaining about it. Why? Because different wrestling fans like different things. There is no pleasing everyone. Ever.

2. I respect Jim Cornette as a wrestling historian and a master storyteller. I also appreciate that he’s devoted his like to pro wrestling. I stopped listening to his reviews of AEW, however, because he’s usually just hating on the people he dislikes and actually doesn’t watch the product enough to really be credible to me.

3. Bro, I have zero use for Vince Ru, bro. Bro. Bro. Bro.

4. To summarize, Cornette and Russo are not the only reasons internet fans criticize AEW. Honestly, there are posters here in this forum (like the Chipper) who make more reasoned and legit criticisms of the company than Cornette does. They pay more attention to the product.


----------



## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

I’ve never watched it, but the stuff they post on their Instagram makes me not want to watch it. It looks awful.

Though, I need to sort of clarify. I attempted to watch the preshow to their first ppv and saw some dude lube himself up with oil to evade a lock up and the other dude slipped and fell and sold it.... so I turned that BS off immediately bc I knew it was going to be retarded.


----------



## Krin (Apr 8, 2018)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Rey and WCW Luchas wrestled the same way AEW does, and guess what it was the second best reason to watch Nitro
> 
> I don't want to watch gymnastic videos. I want exciting fictional battles not flips for the sake of points


but then that style of wrestling was an attraction, it wasn't the expectation it is today. Today, if you don't flip around like a jumping bean, lots of fans will write you off as talentless. This is why bigger guys like Cage wrestle this high spot style instead of wrestling like big men.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The_It_Factor said:


> I’ve never watched it, but the stuff they post on their Instagram makes me not want to watch it. It looks awful.
> 
> Though, I need to sort of clarify. I attempted to watch the preshow to their first ppv and saw some dude lube himself up with oil to evade a lock up and the other dude slipped and fell and sold it.... so I turned that BS off immediately bc I knew it was going to be retarded.


Yeah there are times I am surprised I made it past the Casino Battle Royal too, that was so bad. But I am glad I did. Most of it is good, and thankfully the oil guy is almost exclusively relegated to Dark now.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

The_It_Factor said:


> I’ve never watched it, but the stuff they post on their Instagram makes me not want to watch it. It looks awful.
> 
> Though, I need to sort of clarify. I attempted to watch the preshow to their first ppv and saw some dude lube himself up with oil to evade a lock up and the other dude slipped and fell and sold it.... so I turned that BS off immediately bc I knew it was going to be retarded.


Wrestling is supposed to be fun and not taken seriously. The cat is out of the bag and it's never going back in. Fans of serious wrestling are watching the UFC now.

A bit of comedy in wrestling never hurt anyone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The worst take of all - from this thread that is doomed to fail

is that AEW has flippy, non-psychology matches

that is all


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> These 2 bitter hasbeens spend all of their time moaning about AEW on their podcasts. For some reason they both have cult followers that parrot everything they say and unfortunately the minority has the loudest voice.
> 
> What their cult followers don't understand is both these losers are trying to get jobs with AEW by heeling it up. They hope that by being contrarians they will be hated by the AEW fanbase and that will make them relevant again.


Instead of crying about it, why don't you explain to me what AEW does so good that they should be excluded from criticism that other companies don't get? You guys seem to forget that Cornette shits on WWE too.

The fact that people can't see why someone wouldn't enjoy AEW after all of the cringe stuff they have done says a lot about the mindset of some of the fans.

I think a lot of you need to look in the mirror and do some self evaluation. Get s little bit more self awareness and realize that you are the problem nit the ones who complain.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

TheDraw said:


> Instead of crying about it, why don't you explain to me what AEW does so good that they should be excluded from criticism that other companies don't get? You guys seem to forget that Cornette shits on WWE too.
> 
> The fact that people can't see why someone wouldn't enjoy AEW after all of the cringe stuff they have done says a lot about the mindset of some of the fans.
> 
> I think a lot of you need to look in the mirror and do some self evaluation. Get s little bit more self awareness and realize that you are the problem nit the ones who complain.


The fact that they choose to push a 120 manlet so hard and people choose to support it says enough about the sheep mantality of some AEW fans. The same people who camp outside for the newest "SUPREME" gear.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Exactly why would you watch something that you hate? With Russo and Cornette its even worse because they're both in their 60s and could spend their time left on this earth doing something more meaningful. Its obvious that they want one last run with a major wrestling promotion


He quit but his fans of the show wanted him to continue watching.

Yeah, it makes him $$$. That doesn't mean the show isn't garbage.


You're shaken up and confused asking "why so and so doesn't like something" because you're denying what's in front of you and what you already know. 

The show sucks. Plain and simple. Being better than WWE doesn't mean they don't suck just as hard too.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Wrestling is supposed to be fun and not taken seriously. The cat is out of the bag and it's never going back in. Fans of serious wrestling are watching the UFC now.
> 
> A bit of comedy in wrestling never hurt anyone.


This is a cop out answer. Just because something is entertainment, doesn't mean it can't have logic. Fictional universes still need to have some semblance of logic. Folks go to Marvel movies to have fun. But when Hulk got his ass beat by Thanos, them selling the fact Hulk was now afraid of Thanos put Thanos over as even more dangerous than we thought. It also made you feel for The Hulk and want to see his return.


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It's a figure of speech
> 
> Cornette wants boring rasslin from 3 decades ago. The style he hates is actually exciting to some people. These athletes are insanely talented so why not show off their abilities? Why does wrestling have to always look super realistic? Everyone knows its fake. Give me impressive moves all day


You realise that more people liked that boring wrasslin from 3 decades ago right. What's entertaining wrestling to you is making people tune out.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> A bit of comedy in wrestling never hurt anyone.


A bit of comedy is fine. Having it rammed down your throat repeatedly week after week after week after week after week after week after week after week after week is the problem.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Jim Cornette's podcasts are really entertaining and hold my attention. The video where he discusses Marty Jannetty's crazy claims is incredibly funny. Now I like AEW, but when the non title matches go on and on they lose my attention. No question they are highly impressive athletic displays. But week after week it becomes very monotonous and predictable i.e NXT Takeover main events. It's a shame because those guys are risking serious injury. Not that I'd want them to go the route of 'WWE Style' but less is more and a bit of psychology doesn't hurt. I like my wrestling to feel more like a pro wrestling match as opposed to guys and girls very obviously putting on a display.


----------



## Dab00g (Jul 7, 2020)

Russo was shit and always was the guy who killed wcw to me


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

DaSlacker said:


> Jim Cornette's podcasts are really entertaining and hold my attention. The video where he discusses Marty Jannetty's crazy claims is incredibly funny. Now I like AEW, but when the non title matches go on and on they lose my attention. No question they are highly impressive athletic displays. But week after week it becomes very monotonous and predictable i.e NXT Takeover main events. It's a shame because those guys are risking serious injury. Not that I'd want them to go the route of 'WWE Style' but less is more and a bit of psychology doesn't hurt. I like my wrestling to feel more like a pro wrestling match as opposed to guys and girls very obviously putting on a display.



Russo always moans that someone will get seriously hurt doing the AEW style, but this coming from the same idiot that had Mick Foley fall off hell in a cell and put Owen Hart in a reckless stunt that cost him his life.

Seems like the old style was more dangerous than the new one. It's likely safer for a professional athlete to pull off a move that they practiced a million times than getting repeatedly bashed on the head with a steel chair


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Maybe AEW being shitty is why people crap on AEW.

I don't think you need to listen to a podcast to see why a dude rubbing oil on himself or someone ramming their ass in someones face is stupid.


----------



## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Wrestling is supposed to be fun and not taken seriously. The cat is out of the bag and it's never going back in. Fans of serious wrestling are watching the UFC now.
> 
> A bit of comedy in wrestling never hurt anyone.


Well, I’d sort of disagree. Wrestling isn’t supposed to be taken seriously NOW, though it once was, and even during periods where it changed, there were usually more serious alternatives (e.g. ECW).

It’s not that I’m against comedy, it’s that I’m against constant comedy or goofy comedy. Guys like Kurt Angle were good with comedy stuff. Guys like Santino were cringe. All the stuff I see them post on IG is just silly. It’s either some absurd acrobatic spot (I don’t watch cirque de soleil, so I have no interest in that sort of style of wrestling), or it’s a dude with his hands in his pockets doing soft kicks to people’s shins, or it’s some dude that I thought was a woman, or it’s the oil thing. Now, I didn’t actually see this, but I heard about teleportations and stuff like that.

Again, I can’t give a fair analysis because I’ve never watched a full show, but what they show to me on social media makes me not want to watch it... but maybe they’re just showing the absurd stuff to catch people’s attention.

i also was never a fan of the ex-wwe guys they brought in. However, I’ve been known to like a lot of wrestling that everyone on the internet hates (it’s been years since I’ve watched weekly wrestling, but I remember enjoying TNA far more than WWE back when I watched during the 2010’s, and everyone on her said that was awful), so who knows. I don’t have cable anymore, so I probably won’t be finding out any time soon.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm, sorry mate but no.
> 
> Cornette has a strong education on everything but Lucha Libre. You mention Japan, the guy has Japanese programs in his house and has spoken about how he used to tape trade the Japanese stuff and that it featured stuff he'd never seen before.
> 
> DDT fucking sucks and is a large Japanese indy. To suggest he should know them is kind of silly.


Hang on a minute, on one hand you're claiming Cornette's the faunt of all knowledge on wrestling and on the other giving him a free pass for not knowing about DDT. Now that is silly.

Mark Rollerball Rocco wrestled allover the world, including for Vince Snr - a fact Cornette didn't know or he would have mentioned it. Rollerball's story, tied in with Sayama, Marty Jones and the Harts is important to the development of modern wrestling, it's a story William Regal wonderfully tells on his speaking tours, and it's a story anyone claiming to be a credible serious wrestling historian should know.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

AthleticGirth said:


> Hang on a minute, on one hand you're claiming Cornette's the faunt of all knowledge on wrestling and on the other giving him a free pass for not knowing about DDT. Now that is silly.
> 
> Mark Rollerball Rocco wrestled allover the world, including for Vince Snr - a fact Cornette didn't know or he would have mentioned it. Rollerball's story, tied in with Sayama, Marty Jones and the Harts is important to the development of modern wrestling, it's a story William Regal wonderfully tells on his speaking tours, and it's a story anyone claiming to be a credible serious wrestling historian should know.


Great post

Cornette is the guy that some "smart" fans like to parrot because he appears knowledgeable, but if he was such a genius then he wouldn't have left every promotion he's worked for on bad terms. If he was such a genius then he wouldn't have been passed over in favor of idiot Vince Russo to write RAW in 1998. If he was such a genius then he wouldn't be stuck reviewing AEW from his basement because he can't find decent work anywhere else. Crazy that people still worship this racist sexual harasser nutjob in 2020. Even his best friend from childhood thinks he's mentally disturbed, this should tell you everything


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Without AEW, James E. Cornette would be completely irrelevant. Fact


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Without AEW, James E. Cornette would be completely irrelevant. Fact


*(ignores 35+ years of history before AEW exists)


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Without AEW, James E. Cornette would be completely irrelevant. Fact


Who the hell are you?


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I like both AEW and Cornette. I agree with a lot of the stuff he says, and what I don't agree with, he makes me see his point of view.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

AthleticGirth said:


> Hang on a minute, on one hand you're claiming Cornette's the faunt of all knowledge on wrestling and on the other giving him a free pass for not knowing about DDT. Now that is silly.
> 
> Mark Rollerball Rocco wrestled allover the world, including for Vince Snr - a fact Cornette didn't know or he would have mentioned it. Rollerball's story, tied in with Sayama, Marty Jones and the Harts is important to the development of modern wrestling, it's a story William Regal wonderfully tells on his speaking tours, and it's a story anyone claiming to be a credible serious wrestling historian should know.


Cagematch says he worked a total of 3 matches for the WWF. 2 were dark matches.

All because he didn't mention those 3 matches doesn't mean he didn't know that info. He knows of DDT but probably doesn't follow it closely enough to know that AEW tried to pay tribute to it and even if he did it's kind of subjective anyway.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> Great post
> 
> Cornette is the guy that some "smart" fans like to parrot because he appears knowledgeable, but if he was such a genius then he wouldn't have left every promotion he's worked for on bad terms. If he was such a genius then he wouldn't have been passed over in favor of idiot Vince Russo to write RAW in 1998. If he was such a genius then he wouldn't be stuck reviewing AEW from his basement because he can't find decent work anywhere else. Crazy that people still worship this racist sexual harasser nutjob in 2020. Even his best friend from childhood thinks he's mentally disturbed, this should tell you everything


Ah, I see you've ignored the outline of Cornette's career that I posted and have moved the goalposts from "Fired by all promotions" to "Left every promotion on bad terms". 

Again, if you knew anything about Cornette you'd know he doesn't want to work anymore. He openly says most weeks on his podcasts that he doesn't want to work in wrestling and that he's happy being in the Jim Cornette business. His podcast plus mail order business would net him six figures a year and he doesn't need to do all that much to earn it.

His best friend from childhood meaning Kenny Bolin? Kenny Bolin is an alleged paedophile.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

eh I think when you start going with all these "oh it's these guys faults cause they critic what I like!" it comes off very cult-like and petty, like you are a disciple of a cult. A la "leave Britney alone!".

Enjoy what you enjoy. Serves nothing to be a drama Queen. People don't have to like what you like. And if they don't? Who gives a shit.


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> A bit of comedy is fine. Having it rammed down your throat repeatedly week after week after week after week after week after week after week after week after week is the problem.


There's also good comedy and bad or forced comedy. Those Austin, Angle and McMahon segments from 01 or 02 were incredible. Most of the comedy is forced with bad delivery and fake announcer laughter.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Again, if you knew anything about Cornette you'd know he doesn't want to work anymore. He openly says most weeks on his podcasts that he doesn't want to work in wrestling and that he's happy being in the Jim Cornette business.


Yeah no shit he's going to say that. It's called saving face. He got exposed as a racist and had to resign from the last promotion he was working for. He has a lovely way of spinning things to his cult listeners and they believe every word

He told the Bucks that they had the "hottest angle in wrestling" when they were booked at some convention together. His entire shtick is a work. He worked with FTR in their interview together. He wants a job with AEW but they won't go anywhere near his toxic ass because he ain't worth shit to them.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> *(ignores 35+ years of history before AEW exists)


How does him being in the business that long make him relevant in 2020? Brutus Beefcake has been in the business for 35+ years and no one gives a crap about him today

Cornette is only a topic because of his outrageous AEW comments and for being exposed as a racist with sexual harassment allegations as icing on the cake


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

I agree with the sentiments of the op but they are not responsible for ALL the crap. Mostly because a) Russo has never done anything to warrant respect and shouldn't be taken seriously. He is a one hit wonder at best, the Milli Vanlli of wrestling and b) Jim Cornette, while being very knowledgeable about wrestling, is that very boring guy who used to roadie for Led Zep, Deep Purple and Sabbath. Meaningless to modern young music fans.

Most of the bile - _not constructive criticism_ - comes from people not being able to cope with change with a wrestling promotion that is making waves and getting the magic demo. For the last 15 years, in the USA specifically, we have had that big lumbering leviathan that is WWE at the top with Impact, RoH and others being happy with their station and that set up. Then AEW comes along with a lot of noise and energy. People don't like that!

Oh and lets not forget the Attitude Era casuals - the Taliban of wrestling fans.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yeah no shit he's going to say that. It's called saving face. He got exposed as a racist and had to resign from the last promotion he was working for. He has a lovely way of spinning things to his cult listeners and they believe every word
> 
> He told the Bucks that they had the "hottest angle in wrestling" when they were booked at some convention together. His entire shtick is a work. He worked with FTR in their interview together. He wants a job with AEW but they won't go anywhere near his toxic ass because he ain't worth shit to them.


This defense is so hilarious to me. "He doesn't want to work in wrestling!" He was JUST working in wrestling, and got fired, AGAIN. His actions say different.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Nah, AEW has a lot of problems and Cornette is a bit of a dick. I find it hilarious that so many people think this is the case. It's a pretty good troll job to be honest. 5 pages when you can't possibly believe any of this to be true.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

I enjoy AEW and I also enjoy Cornette's podcast. He makes alot of sense and I agree with alot, but I also feel he's living in the past. Wrestling will never be what it was in the 80's ever again. As for Russo, I have absolutely zero interest in anything that clown says.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I think people are free to form their own opinions. Not everyone is going to like the same things.

Also, Cornette is a career heel who is vehement about keeping kayfabe, so most of what he says is about drawing a heel reaction, with just enough basis in truth to keep it believable.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't find ether of them entertaining, and their opinions of AEW are almost exactly the same which makes me wonder how they even hate each other. They should be best friends
> 
> Disrespect? What about all the crap that they say about AEW and its fanbase? They both crap on Orange Cassidy when he proved that he's a ratings draw. They both hate the "flippy" wrestling when that style is far more entertaining than 5 minute restholds. They both hate everything about it but they both keep watching. The only difference is one is stuck in the 80s and the other is stuck in the 90s


If a football fan could pick the brain of a former coach who had won multiple championships, they wouldn’t have anywhere near the same level of disregard for their opinion as a majority of posters have for Cornette and Russo in this thread.

There’s something about wrestling fans that’s just weirdly disrespectful and I don’t understand it.

You argue that Orange is a “ratings draw” and therefore their criticism is invalid and should be dismissed. 

Ratings draw?

I like him and I loved the Jericho/Cassidy debate segment, but Russo and Cornette have drawn ratings literally more than 10 times above anything Cassidy has been involved in.

You’re saying the guy who draws 700 thousand is immune to ratings criticism from guys who wrote shows for 7 million, as the guys who wrote shows for 7 million are old fools who should be ignored.

It’s good to listen and think. 

I just don’t get why everyone blocks their ears and goes la la la la la la.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Geeee said:


> I think people are free to form their own opinions. Not everyone is going to like the same things.
> 
> Also, Cornette is a career heel who is vehement about keeping kayfabe, so most of what he says is about drawing a heel reaction, with just enough basis in truth to keep it believable.


Very, very true. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Russo and Cornette have been working a rivalry for over 20 years. 

The recent restraining order helped them both out.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Lol jim takes it tooo serious. Now you have jericho saying jim is bannes from watching as if thats actually possible. Yet jim responds serious. People are crazy in these days.

Sure some stuff sucks im aew but some is great. But to come off so angry like jim when its done wrong is not healthy. I watched him on dark side of the ring. Yes he legit made valid points like the brawl for all but the tone of his voice that shit is not good for your heart. Sounded like he was going to die over his hate for russi. I hate russo but im good

We all know his gimmick is 50 percent real and thats how beyond intense passionate he is about wrestling but reality is no one cares if he bitches. Its us that matters.


Longer message than planned. Was just funny jericho trolling. Its silly


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Is it me, or does Russo always makes a comment on what Jim criticizes _after_ Jim has done so?


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

A man who reminds me of Abe Simpson yelling at a cloud and another who is responsible for all of the worst storylines in wrestling history hate AEW? Who the fuck listens to these people in 2020? If you don't like AEW and have a genuine reason for it, then that's fine. Otherwise enjoy it and let them yell at some clouds and go bright pink.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

IronMan8 said:


> If a football fan could pick the brain of a former coach who had won multiple championships, they wouldn’t have anywhere near the same level of disregard for their opinion as a majority of posters have for Cornette and Russo in this thread.
> 
> There’s something about wrestling fans that’s just weirdly disrespectful and I don’t understand it.
> 
> ...


They both have agendas


Cornette can't help it because his whole life is a work. He's been riding the wave of finding popular targets and making them enemies. First it was Russo, then it became Kenny Omega and Young Bucks. He's a good shit talker that's the only reason some people are entertained by his insanity. Being entertaining doesn't make him right about anything. He's clearly working and his resume proves that he was never the genius his cult makes him out to be. Fired, forced to resign, went out of business, demotions. Story of his life since the 90s. No one wants to go near him because he'll give them a bad name. All he has left is his soapbox to bitch and complain

Russo I'm sure is still upset that he got banned by Cody from the first All In over his homophobic comments. Also he's good friends with Jeremy Borash and Karrion Kross which work for NXT. He's the dictionary definition of pot calling the kettle black. Complains about AEW storylines being too silly and inconsistent when that's exactly what he did in WCW and TNA. Says he hates the flippy style but from what I understand he doesn't even like wrestling period. He's not bitter like Cornette but he works for clickbait with controversial statements which makes him almost as bad. 

Both these losers refuse to admit that the business passed them by. Why should I respect the words of a 1-hit wonder that bombed everywhere else he worked and the words of a mental case that couldn't manage to keep a job in over 3 decades?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yeah no shit he's going to say that. It's called saving face. He got exposed as a racist and had to resign from the last promotion he was working for. He has a lovely way of spinning things to his cult listeners and they believe every word
> 
> He told the Bucks that they had the "hottest angle in wrestling" when they were booked at some convention together. His entire shtick is a work. He worked with FTR in their interview together. He wants a job with AEW but they won't go anywhere near his toxic ass because he ain't worth shit to them.


If Jim Cornette wanted a job with AEW he'd get one. Working with Tyson and Iveliese shows they're not afraid of toxic people. The fact they constantly drag out random old folk shows they love the old crowd. So acting like AEW has strict hiring standards is weird.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> If Jim Cornette wanted a job with AEW he'd get one. Working with Tyson and Iveliese shows they're not afraid of toxic people. The fact they constantly drag out random old folk shows they love the old crowd. So acting like AEW has strict hiring standards is weird.


No he wouldn't get a job with AEW. NWA had to let him go just recently because he's a racist. If small fries like NWA want nothing to do with his ass then you can count on AEW not wanting him ether


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Listening to his podcast weekly, I will criticize Jim Cornette on these points. Feel free to agree or disagree:

He seems stuck in the past in terms of thinking of television as it was in the 1980's. When 100s of house shows and television had to be in-sync with one another. Therefore doing long, risky matches on TV with clean finishes was ridiculous as it could lead to injury and offered no reason to buy a ticket for the Omni. AEW has a very different business model, where several house shows and 4 hours of television are condensed into one weekly product.

He's also a little dismissive of content created for YouTube and the < 1 million viewers on TNT, when anybody with kids knows national cable television is for the most part very outdated with the younger generation. 

It's obvious he watched very little national wrestling after 1999. Particularly WWE. I'm not sure of his constant attacks on AEW Dynamite being an 'exposing the business clown show' considering the amount of wild, hokey shit seen on Raw and SmackDown since 2000. Especially as the noughties progressed and PG gimmick matches took center stage. The vitriol seems rather harsh considering what WWE and TNA did with the wrestling genre. It's easy to criticize what they do, but it's not easy to act like it's 1989 again when the < 30 demo has been raised on Attitude, WWE 2K video games, crazy brawls,Total Nonstop Action and X Division.

His hatred of Omega and love of Cody is too biased. I'm not a Kenny fan but the vitriol is unwarranted considering he's not that much better or worse than Rollins, Moxley, Kingston, Owens, Morrison etc.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> How does him being in the business that long make him relevant in 2020? Brutus Beefcake has been in the business for 35+ years and no one gives a crap about him today
> 
> Cornette is only a topic because of his outrageous AEW comments and for being exposed as a racist with sexual harassment allegations as icing on the cake


Your ignorance of wrestling history is pretty breathtaking. It is pretty impressive how hard one has to work to know as little as you do. Not only that, but you think sexual assault can be "cute." Go watch some gymnastics.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> No he wouldn't get a job with AEW. NWA had to let him go just recently because he's a racist. If small fries like NWA want nothing to do with his ass then you can count on AEW not wanting him ether


AEW has worked with a man convicted of rape. They have an announcer who called someone a n*gger and ****** in a promo. They have a wrestler who said he'd rape Sasha Banks. Jim Cornette saying n*gger and making chicken jokes would totally fit in with how they operate.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> AEW has worked with a man convicted of rape. They have an announcer who called someone a n*gger and ****** in a promo. They have a wrestler who said he'd rape Sasha Banks. Jim Cornette saying n*gger and making chicken jokes would totally fit in with how they operate.



Mike Tyson is valuable to AEW because he's a huge celebrity. Jim Cornette doesn't bring them anything but a bad rep. He's known for being a headache to deal with backstage and he's too set in his own ways. Confirmed racist and an alleged sexual predator all came out in the past few months. This would be a horrible time to bring him in. The cons far outweigh whatever pros he'd bring to AEW


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Your ignorance of wrestling history is pretty breathtaking. It is pretty impressive how hard one has to work to know as little as you do. Not only that, but you think sexual assault can be "cute." Go watch some gymnastics.


When one fails at defending their arguments they usually resort to insults. Keep being pissy


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Mike Tyson is valuable to AEW because he's a huge celebrity. Jim Cornette doesn't bring them anything but a bad rep. He's known for being a headache to deal with backstage and he's too set in his own ways. Confirmed racist and an alleged sexual predator all came out in the past few months. This would be a horrible time to bring him in. The cons far outweigh whatever pros he'd bring to AEW


Again, purposefully ignorant of all history.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> When one fails at defending their arguments they usually resort to insults. Keep being pissy


You have failed in every post you have made to make actual points. There is no point to go over things again. You simply have no idea what you are talking about regarding any topic at any level and every post that you make gives a further example of same.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Again, purposefully ignorant of all history.


ALL history huh. That's a bold statement.

POP QUIZ. What is Sidney Eudy's weapon of choice when attacking people in their hotel room?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> ALL history huh. That's a bold statement.
> 
> POP QUIZWhat is Sidney Eudy's weapon of choice when attacking people in their hotel room?


Scissors, obviously.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Mike Tyson is valuable to AEW because he's a huge celebrity. Jim Cornette doesn't bring them anything but a bad rep. He's known for being a headache to deal with backstage and he's too set in his own ways. Confirmed racist and an alleged sexual predator all came out in the past few months. This would be a horrible time to bring him in. The cons far outweigh whatever pros he'd bring to AEW


Brings them a different perspective and could be decent for a storyline or 2. If they brought him in it wouldn't be any worse publicity than the Sammy shit. They don't need him, but acting like they wouldn't take him is silly.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Scissors, obviously.


Correct!



RapShepard said:


> Brings them a different perspective and could be decent for a storyline or 2. If they brought him in it wouldn't be any worse publicity than the Sammy shit. They don't need him, but acting like they wouldn't take him is silly.


Difference is Sammy will be a huge star for them. Jim Cornette could have a diabetic attack tomorrow with the amount of junk food he eats. His storyline ideas never brought anyone any ratings so why bother?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Correct!
> 
> 
> 
> Difference is Sammy will be a huge star for them. Jim Cornette could have a diabetic attack tomorrow with the amount of junk food he eats. His storyline ideas never brought anyone any ratings so why bother?


Sammy won't be a huge star for them. He'll be a decent midcard act


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> You have failed in every post you have made to make actual points. There is no point to go over things again. You simply have no idea what you are talking about regarding any topic at any level and every post that you make gives a further example of same.


My points make perfect sense


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> My points make perfect sense


None of them have, not even this one. Liking AEW is fine, I like it too, but excusing everything they do because it is them doing it is silly. You seem to know only talking points regarding Cornette, not an actual understanding of who he is and what he has done. It is very transparent to see. Stick to topics you know something about, there might be one or two out there. There is no evidence yet there are though.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> None of them have, not even this one. Liking AEW is fine, I like it too, but excusing everything they do because it is them doing it is silly. You seem to know only talking points regarding Cornette, not an actual understanding of who he is and what he has done. It is very transparent to see. Stick to topics you know something about, there might be one or two out there. There is no evidence yet there are though.



What more needs to be said about Cornette that hasn't already been said?

He started in the business 35+ years ago. He worked for various promotions in the United States, most of which he got fired from, got demoted or resigned. He ran and operated SMW which went out of business. He was a big part of WWE's farming system which he got fired from. He wrote for WWE during their least profitable year ever and stopped writing for them when the show got hot again. He has a podcast where he likes to bitch and moan about everything and everyone that isn't double cheese-cheeseburgers, FTR, Jerry Jarrett, Bill Dundee, Jerry Lawler or The Midnight Express. He has horrible fashion sense. He's a racist, a bigot, an alleged sexual predator, a mental case with anger issues, a great heel manager because he's an easily hateable personality. He owns more wrestling memorabilia in his house than Dave Meltzer and Bill Apter combined. His life is a work

Am I missing anything important?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What more needs to be said about Cornette that hasn't already been said?
> 
> He started in the business 35+ years ago. He worked for various promotions in the United States, most of which he got fired from, got demoted or resigned. He ran and operated SMW which went out of business. He was a big part of WWE's farming system which he got fired from. He wrote for WWE during their least profitable year ever and stopped writing for them when the show got hot again. He has a podcast where he likes to bitch and moan about everything and everyone that isn't double cheese-cheeseburgers, FTR, Jerry Jarrett, Bill Dundee, Jerry Lawler or The Midnight Express. He has horrible fashion sense. He's a racist, a bigot, an alleged sexual predator, a mental case with anger issues, a great heel manager because he's an easily hateable personality. He owns more wrestling memorabilia in his house than Dave Meltzer and Bill Apter combined. His life is a work
> 
> Am I missing anything important?


Congrats, you have also been "fired from, got demoted or resigned" from every job you have ever had too. So has literally everyone who has ever lived. The only other way to leave a job is to die while doing it. What a rhetorical statement. 

He is obviously not a racist or bigot. If you actually believe he is, you do not know anything about him or the definition of those words. That or you do not understand comedy. Pick one.

The only thing I would agree with you on is he is a mental case with anger issues. That is 100% true and I have never denied that. That does not make him wrong about anything, though I disagree with him on plenty.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Congrats, you have also been "fired from, got demoted or resigned" from every job you have ever had too. So has literally everyone who has ever lived. The only other way to leave a job is to die while doing it. What a rhetorical statement.
> 
> He is obviously not a racist or bigot. If you actually believe he is, you do not know anything about him or the definition of those words. That or you do not understand comedy. Pick one.
> 
> The only thing I would agree with you on is he is a mental case with anger issues. That is 100% true and I have never denied that. That does not make him wrong about anything, though I disagree with him on plenty.







Yes he is a racist. There's more than enough evidence of it

He had no choice but to resign from NWA because of his racism. Getting fired and demoted doesn't look great on a portfolio. Name me one successful stint he's had since the 90s that didnt end badly between he and the promotion involved? This should be good


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yes he is a racist. There's more than enough evidence of it
> 
> He had no choice but to resign from NWA because of his racism. Getting fired and demoted doesn't look great on a portfolio. Name me one successful stint he's had since the 90s that didnt end badly between he and the promotion involved? This should be good


This has already been addressed dozens of times in other threads. For the NWA, telling a starvation joke has nothing to do with someone's race. It really is not that hard to grasp. And even if it DID have to do with race, that does not mean the person telling said joke PERSONALLY feels that way. Are you familiar at all with the concept of comedy? As an AEW apologist, perhaps not.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> This has already been addressed dozens of times in other threads. For the NWA, telling a starvation joke has nothing to do with someone's race. It really is not that hard to grasp. And even if it DID have to do with race, that does not mean the person telling said joke PERSONALLY feels that way. Are you familiar at all with the concept of comedy? As an AEW apologist, perhaps not.


I guess you also don't think Hulk Hogan is a racist and Russo a homophobe if you're going to make excuses for someone's blatant racism like that. It amazes me how much Cornette's cult followers will try to spin everything he does and says to make it look not as bad as it actually is


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I guess you also don't think Hulk Hogan is a racist and Russo a homophobe if you're going to make excuses for someone's blatant racism like that. It amazes me how much Cornette's cult followers will try to spin everything he does and says to make it look not as bad as it actually is


So now your strategy is to change the subject away from Jim? Whataboutism fallacy.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Honestly the title of this thread is pretty general and kind of dumb. If "crapping" on AEW is another word for "criticizing" then yeah I do it. No promotion is without its flaws and some people want to pretend AEW is flawless. If people like Meltzer and Russo are influencing your opinion that much on the matter, then that's a bit silly also.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> So now your strategy is to change the subject away from Jim? Whataboutism fallacy.


No, I'm highlighting your excuse-making for a clear racist


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> No, I'm highlighting your excuse-making for a clear racist


I do not believe you understand the definition of the word "racist."


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I do not believe you understand the definition of the word "racist."


More than you do, apparently


----------



## JerryMark (May 7, 2016)

i'm really sorry jim hates your favorite cosplayer.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> More than you do, apparently


What an amazingly clever comeback. Pretty soon you will qualify for tenure at the Matt and Nick Jackson School of Psychology and Logic.

Strange how this "racist" managed to keep it hidden over decades of working closely with thousands of people from all ethnic backgrounds. But you post a video of someone telling a story in the 90's of something that happened in the 80's when he was a heel character and the retelling of a joke that he told on camera on RAW in the 90's, and suddenly Inspector Keister has cracked the case!

Put some actual thought into things instead of parroting talking points.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> What an amazingly clever comeback. Pretty soon you will qualify for tenure at the Matt and Nick Jackson School of Psychology and Logic.
> 
> Strange how this "racist" managed to keep it hidden over decades of working closely with thousands of people from all ethnic backgrounds. But you post a video of someone telling a story in the 90's of something that happened in the 80's when he was a heel character and the retelling of a joke that he told on camera on RAW in the 90's, and suddenly Inspector Keister has cracked the case!
> 
> Put some actual thought into things instead of parroting talking points.


Hulk Hogan kept it hidden too

I don't need to put more thought. I provided proof. It's up to you to prove it wrong. You failed miserably so far


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Hulk Hogan kept it hidden too
> 
> I don't need to put more thought. I provided proof. It's up to you to prove it wrong. You failed miserably so far


AGAIN changing the subject from Jim.

That is not how proof works at all. You do not prove a negative. If you make a serious accusation, YOU provide proof. And AGAIN posting a video of someone telling a story in the 90's of something that happened in the 80's when he was a heel character and the retelling of a joke that he told on camera on RAW in the 90's is not evidence of racism. Give me interviews with dozens of people he has worked closely with over the past 35 years claiming this. Oh, you do not have that? Hmm.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> AGAIN changing the subject from Jim.
> 
> That is not how proof works at all. You do not prove a negative. If you make a serious accusation, YOU provide proof. And AGAIN posting a video of someone telling a story in the 90's of something that happened in the 80's when he was a heel character and the retelling of a joke that he told on camera on RAW in the 90's is not evidence of racism. Give me interviews with dozens of people he has worked closely with over the past 35 years claiming this. Oh, you do not have that? Hmm.


Hahahah that's your excuse you're running with? You should be a politician 


I can't help you if you actually don't notice the racism in that video, or understand how the Ethiopian joke was racist. At this point you'll try to sell me on Jeffrey Epstein not being a pedophile


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Hahahah that's your excuse you're running with? You should be a politician
> 
> 
> I can't help you if you actually don't notice the racism in that video, or understand how the Ethiopian joke was racist. At this point you'll try to sell me on Jeffrey Epstein not being a pedophile


It is not an excuse, it is simply a fact. You do not know the definition of the word racist. You do not understand the joke was about starvation. You do realize the stereotype about black people in America liking chicken is not about black people in Africa right? Or are all black people everywhere the same to you? See how this works?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Hahahah that's your excuse you're running with? You should be a politician
> 
> 
> I can't help you if you actually don't notice the racism in that video, or understand how the Ethiopian joke was racist. At this point you'll try to sell me on Jeffrey Epstein not being a pedophile


You think sexual assault can be cute though, so clearly you're in support of it.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> It is not an excuse, it is simply a fact. You do not know the definition of the word racist. You do not understand the joke was about starvation. You do realize the stereotype about black people in America liking chicken is not about black people in Africa right? Or are all black people everywhere the same to you? See how this works?


Please, as an ignorant person that needs enlightenment, can you explain to me how the joke about fried chicken in Ethiopia isn't racist? You can't be THAT clueless about age-old stereotypes


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Please, as an ignorant person that needs enlightenment, can you explain to me how the joke about fried chicken in Ethiopia isn't racist? You can be THAT clueless about age-old stereotypes







__





Famines in Ethiopia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

The joke is about starvation, but Jim had to use A BUCKET OF FRIED CHICKEN out of all the food in the world. Not racist at all.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does this have to do with him using a bucket of fried chicken in his joke?

I swear you guys will take a bullet for Jim Cornette if he asked you to. The grasping at straws here is hilarious


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What does this have to do with him using a bucket of fried chicken in his joke?
> 
> I swear you guys will take a bullet for Jim Cornette if he asked you to. The grasping at straws here is hilarious


I couldn't give less of a shit about Jim Cornette, but whatever fits the narrative I suppose.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Please, as an ignorant person that needs enlightenment, can you explain to me how the joke about fried chicken in Ethiopia isn't racist? You can be THAT clueless about age-old stereotypes


In the 1990's, in the United States (not sure about Canada) we were inundated with commercials all the time about starvation in Ethiopia. Many had Sally Struthers in them who was not exactly a victim of starvation herself. There was an episode of South Park on it in its first season. Jim refers to South Park and that episode many, MANY times. So yes, it is based on THAT specific thing (those commercials that were everywhere, not South Park. South Park's episode, ike the joke, is also based on those commercials).


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> I couldn't give less of a shit about Jim Cornette, but whatever fits the narrative I suppose.


Yet you try to defend him with a Wikipedia page about starvation.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> The joke is about starvation, but Jim had to use A BUCKET OF FRIED CHICKEN out of all the food in the world. Not racist at all.


It also was not a joke HE created. So there is also that.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yet you try to defend him with a Wikipedia page about starvation.


The citations genius.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> In the 1990's, in the United States (not sure about Canada) we were inundated with commercials all the time about starvation in Ethiopia. Many had Sally Struthers in them who was not exactly a victim of starvation herself. There was an episode of South Park on it in its first season. Jim refers to South Park and that episode many, MANY times. So yes, it is based on THAT specific thing (those commercials that were everywhere, not South Park. South Park's episode, ike the joke, is also based on those commercials).


So to solve the problem they fed Ethiopians with fried chicken?

Just give up already. Your defense of this is cringy


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> So to solve the problem they fed Ethiopians with fried chicken?
> 
> Just give up already. Your defense of this is cringy


Maybe complex humor and deep thought is not for you. Keep watching OC and Nakazawa. Seems more up your alley.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Maybe complex humor and deep thought is not for you. Keep watching OC and Nakazawa. Seems more up your alley.


So a racist joke is now framed as "complex humor". Got it.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> So a racist joke is now framed as "complex humor". Got it.


Again, NOT a racist joke, a starvation joke.

But even if it was, for the sake of argument a joke that was clearly about race, that does not in any way make the person telling it a racist. You seem unfamiliar with how humor works. Does every joke every person tells reflect what they actually feel about a subject? How hard is this? Do you listen to Chris Rock or Bill Burr and say "wow, those guys actually believe all that?" No sane person ever could believe that. That is how comedy works...simple concept.

And since you keep bringing in other people, is Excalibur a racist?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> It also was not a joke HE created. So there is also that.


Ok so what you're saying is that on top of being racist he's also unoriginal.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Ok so what you're saying is that on top of being racist he's also unoriginal.


It would be really helpful for you if you knew what words mean before you begin to write about them.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Again, NOT a racist joke, a starvation joke.
> 
> But even if it was, for the sake of argument a joke that was clearly about race, that does not in any way make the person telling it a racist. You seem unfamiliar with how humor works. Does every joke every person tells reflect what they actually feel about a subject? How hard is this? Do you listen to Chris Rock or Bill Burr and say "wow, those guys actually believe all that?" No sane person ever could believe that. That is how comedy works...simple concept.
> 
> And since you keep bringing in other people, is Excalibur a racist?


You might, MIGHT have a point if this was the only evidence of Jim's racism. Sadly it's not


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)




----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> You might, MIGHT have a point if this was the only evidence of Jim's racism. Sadly it's not


Finally, a crack.

You posted a video from the 90's of Jim telling a story from the 80's of him in character. Got anything else? Interviews from longtime friends and colleagues that documented his obvious racist actions? Anything?

Any comment on Excalibur?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> View attachment 89769


I was going to bring up Jordan Peterson and the Cathy Newman interview but figured that would just open up a larger can of worms...


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I was going to bring up Jordan Peterson and the Cathy Newman interview but figured that would just open up a larger can of worms...


Believe me, I wasn't planning on going any deeper into that.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Any comment on Excalibur?


I don't know what happened with Excalibur



El Hammerstone said:


> View attachment 89769



That meme doesn't make any sense within the context of this argument.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't know what happened with Excalibur


He called a black wrestler the n word in character in the early 2000's as part of an angle. That is why he has been off TV the past two weeks. If Cornette is a racist because he said it as a heel manager in the 80's certainly Excalibur is too since he said it in character in the 2000's right?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> He called a black wrestler the n word in character in the early 2000's as part of an angle. That is why he has been off TV the past two weeks. If Cornette is a racist because he said it as a heel manager in the 80's certainly Excalibur is too since he said it in character in the 2000's right?


I'd have to read the transcript of what he said but yes, that may make him a racist. Depends on a lot of things, tone, the things being said, the level of anger in his "promo". If there's other evidence of racism elsewhere with him then it doesn't help his cause


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I'd have to read the transcript of what he said but yes, that may make him a racist. Depends on a lot of things, tone, the things being said, the level of anger in his "promo". If there's other evidence of racism elsewhere with him then it doesn't help his cause


So now you are open to nuance and context in a way you were not with Cornette. There it was cut and dry right?

Amazing, someone playing a racist character can mean the actual person may be racist? Does that make Leonardo DiCaprio a racist?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> So now you are open to nuance and context in a way you were not with Cornette. There it was cut and dry right?
> 
> Amazing, someone playing a racist character can mean the actual person may be racist? Does that make Leonardo DiCaprio a racist?


Doing the racist thing in wrestling doesn't work. AWA tried it with Colonel Debeers and it not only went nowhere but the wrestler behind the character got murder threats. Calling someone a N**** in a promo is bad heat and tasteless when there's a million different ways to work a program. If Excalibur isn't racist then he was an immature dumb fuck for saying it. Cornette isn't that dumb


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

When Jim Cornette points out obvious booking mistakes or stupid spots in matches, of course it is going to get more eyes on the stupid shit some of the guys in AEW are doing. It becomes more frustrating when they acknowledge that they hear these valid criticism and still refuse to change their ways.

AEW isn't hated because of Jim, Jim is popular because he speaks what many people think are the bad stuff in AEW. He also adds stuff to matches he's reviewing about how it would have looked better, how the camera should have been shot, and most of the time what he says makes sense and indeed it would have looked better.
I think most people that hate Jim are people that don't listen to him and just read whatever controversial thing he said that week by wrestling newsites.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Doing the racist thing in wrestling doesn't work. AWA tried it with Colonel Debeers and it not only went nowhere but the wrestler behind the character got murder threats. Calling someone a N**** in a promo is bad heat and tasteless when there's a million different ways to work a program. If Excalibur isn't racist then he was an immature dumb fuck for saying it. Cornette isn't that dumb


Whether or not is a good idea or not is a completely separate argument. I do not want it there either, but that is not the argument. Someone making a mistake and being dumb, DOES NOT equate to them actually being racist. See my point yet?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Whether or not is a good idea or not is a completely separate argument. I do not want it there either, but that is not the argument. Someone making a mistake and being dumb, DOES NOT equate to them actually being racist. See my point yet?


I see your point but Cornette is smart enough to bypass this stuff, unless it came from a real place and allowed him to express himself without the consequences of retaliation. The way he said it sounded too real to be all an act. New Jack called him a racist after leaving SMW, I dont know why and they made up after but there's definitely a clear trail of racism with him


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I see your point but Cornette is smart enough to bypass this stuff, unless it came from a real place and allowed him to express himself without the consequences of retaliation. The way he said it sounded too real to be all an act. New Jack called him a racist after leaving SMW, I dont know why and they made up after but there's definitely a clear trail of racism with him


Saying it in the 80's in character and then telling a story about it in the 90's might be ill advised, but it was not 2020 back then. If it was something he REGULARLY did even in character back then there might be more to the story. But the way he talks as a human being and more importantly the way he ACTS say otherwise. I do not know what "clear trail" you are seeing but if he is guilty of anything, it is saying a word no one should ever say but I care more about your actions as a human than the words you say. New Jack, someone Jim chose to hire, promote, and push, is not exactly known for his honesty or integrity.

So again, you can hate Cornette's opinions all day, that is fine. But there is no history of racism with him any more than Excalibur or Leonardo DiCaprio.


----------



## JerryMark (May 7, 2016)

also, ethiopians aren't black americans and share 0 cultural commonality.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

JerryMark said:


> also, ethiopians aren't black americans and share 0 cultural commonality.


So what's the point of using fried chicken in the joke then?


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Without AEW, James E. Cornette would be completely irrelevant. Fact


I listen to Cornette's podcast regardless of if he talks about AEW or not. He is entertaining and funny as hell to me.


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Correct!
> 
> 
> 
> Difference is Sammy will be a huge star for them. Jim Cornette could have a didabetic attack tomorrow with the amount of junk food he eats. His storyline ideas never brought anyone any ratings so why bother?


Kane ripping of the hell in a cell door off and tombstoning the Undertaker drew bigger ratings than AEW who you have a major crush on. 

He also participated as a manager in angles that drew much higher ratings than AEW does. 

If you're going to hate the man have at it. Just back it up with facts.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

theboxingfan said:


> Kane ripping of the hell in a cell door off and tombstoning the Undertaker drew bigger ratings than AEW who you have a major crush on.
> 
> He also participated as a manager in angles that drew much higher ratings than AEW does.
> 
> If you're going to hate the man have at it. Just back it up with facts.


Not sure if you know this or not, but PPVs don't do ratings


I wouldn't bring up that timeframe if I were you. That's back when WWF was getting its ass royally kicked by WCW. A week after Kane's debut RAW did a 2.3. That's embarrassing when you think that they tripled tbis amount after Cornette got kicked off creative


----------



## JerryMark (May 7, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> So what's the point of using fried chicken in the joke then?


because it's a "funny food" to use for an example.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister trying to make his mark as the worst poster in the AEW section.



MontyCora said:


> This defense is so hilarious to me. "He doesn't want to work in wrestling!" He was JUST working in wrestling, and got fired, AGAIN. His actions say different.


You're correct that he was indeed working in wrestling but why was he? Do you know the reasoning behind it? Because I do. For Jim to come out of retirement it took the following:

- The return of the National Wrestling Alliance which he has pretty much dedicated his life to and the return of traditional wrestling that makes sense which he has been wanting for more than 20 years.

- $2500.00 USD a show making him the second highest paid talent on that first taping. Nick Aldis was first.

- The studio was within driving distance for Cornette because he hates travelling.

- It was a part time gig featuring his buddies and young talent he respected.

---

Everything pretty much perfectly aligned. It was good money to do something he was passionate about that was relatively close to home featuring people he liked and he only had to dedicate 2 days every 6 weeks to it. That's the ONLY reason they got him for the show and he likely would've turned them down if it wasn't the perfect deal.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> No he wouldn't get a job with AEW. NWA had to let him go just recently because he's a racist. If small fries like NWA want nothing to do with his ass then you can count on AEW not wanting him ether


AEW talked to him about giving him a job. As a matter of fact Tony Khan called Cornette before AEW Dynamite was even a thing and could very well have been the first call he made to anyone in wrestling management. If Cornette had accepted you all would absolutely adore the guy just like how Eric Bischoff has gone from one hit wonder to legend in the span of about 2 weeks.

NWA didn't let him go he left. He left because the NWA apologised on his behalf and then wanted him to apologise also which he refused to do. He was pissed off that the NWA would issue an apology on his behalf without speaking to him first.



DaSlacker said:


> He seems stuck in the past in terms of thinking of television as it was in the 1980's. When 100s of house shows and television had to be in-sync with one another. Therefore doing long, risky matches on TV with clean finishes was ridiculous as it could lead to injury and offered no reason to buy a ticket for the Omni. AEW has a very different business model, where several house shows and 4 hours of television are condensed into one weekly product.


Just wanted to comment on this one, I get your point that most wrestling shows are now giving way too much away on TV and they've been doing that for about 25 years now but don't you think Cornette's method might be smartest even today in 2020?

Looking at AEW what is my motivation to go out to a live event or buy their PPV's if I'm the average cash strapped wrestling fan? The entire selling point for AEW is great wrestling matches which if I'm into their style I can see every week for free on TV so why pay for it?

As opposed to what worked back in the day where you'd maybe have a truly competitive match 10-15 times a year on TV and that was it. If you wanted to see a truly competitive night of wrestling you had to pay to head to the arena. There wasn't any PPV's at that time (Except for JCP/WCW) and the visiting stars from around the country/world were only seen on TV to talk. If you wanted to see Andre, Flair, Race, Brody, Abdullah, Sheik etc etc wrestle live you had to buy a ticket.

The business back then was much smarter in my honest opinion.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> When one fails at defending their arguments they usually resort to insults. Keep being pissy


He's right though you are pretty ignorant in regards to this. Many people think they know all about Cornette because they read about him or listened to a podcast once but a lot of the stuff you're saying just shows you don't know what you're talking about.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> His storyline ideas never brought anyone any ratings so why bother?


Case in point, this shows your ignorance here. At one stage it was Cornette, Russo and McMahon writing RAW and they were drawing much higher ratings than any promotion today.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> He had no choice but to resign from NWA because of his racism. Getting fired and demoted doesn't look great on a portfolio. Name me one successful stint he's had since the 90s that didnt end badly between he and the promotion involved? This should be good


ROH, TNA, the NWA never barred him, WWE is obviously still open to having him around also.



Lheurch said:


> He called a black wrestler the n word in character in the early 2000's as part of an angle. That is why he has been off TV the past two weeks. If Cornette is a racist because he said it as a heel manager in the 80's certainly Excalibur is too since he said it in character in the 2000's right?


One could argue that Excalibur is much worse based on political correctness not really being as prevalent in the 80's as it was in the early 00's.

Personally I'm not a hypocrite and don't care either way but am playing devils advocate here.



Lheurch said:


> So now you are open to nuance and context in a way you were not with Cornette. There it was cut and dry right?


It's interesting how context becomes a thing when it's an AEW personality. I've heard that Cornette clip before you can't even properly hear what he's saying let alone get proper context (I've since got the context from Cornette's podcast).



Keister Fredrickson said:


> So what's the point of using fried chicken in the joke then?


It's a funny visual. A person running through a country going through a starvation crisis with an open bucket of chicken on their head fighting off hungry thieves who want a piece. 

Those people being black has nothing to do with it. It'd be funny if white people were going through a starvation crisis and the same thing occurred.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a funny visual. A person running through a country going through a starvation crisis with an open bucket of chicken on their head fighting off hungry thieves who want a piece.
> 
> *Those people being black has nothing to do with it.* It'd be funny if white people were going through a starvation crisis and the same thing occurred.


Oh for FUCKS SAKE Chip. Making starving African jokes about fried chicken is racist as hell. You KNOW Black people and fried chicken is a racist stereotype. Jim Cornette KNOWS that. You KNOW that. Everyone involved in that lame aged joke knows that. He didn't say "with a box of pizza" he didn't say "Korean BBQ" he didn't say all the food in the fucking world, he specifically chose fried chicken.

"But he's a southern tubby man! He probably loves fried chicken as much as everyone else does!" you'll tell me. Stop this fucking patty cake bullshit pretending like you don't know what you know about race relations. Stop pretending VIDEO doesn't exist on the internet of Jim Cornette casually telling a story about calling someone a ****** in anger, and then rolling his eyes and being annoyed that the person he just called a ****** had the gall to be furious and offended.

FUCK Jim Cornette and fuck people who defend his bullshit with stupid arguments.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MontyCora said:


> Oh for FUCKS SAKE Chip. Making starving African jokes about fried chicken is racist as hell. You KNOW Black people and fried chicken is a racist stereotype. Jim Cornette KNOWS that. You KNOW that. Everyone involved in that lame aged joke knows that. He didn't say "with a box of pizza" he didn't say "Korean BBQ" he didn't say all the food in the fucking world, he specifically chose fried chicken.
> 
> "But he's a southern tubby man! He probably loves fried chicken as much as everyone else does!" you'll tell me. Stop this fucking patty cake bullshit pretending like you don't know what you know about race relations. Stop pretending VIDEO doesn't exist on the internet of Jim Cornette casually telling a story about calling someone a **** in anger, and then rolling his eyes and being annoyed that the person he just called a **** had the gall to be furious and offended.
> 
> FUCK Jim Cornette and fuck people who defend his bullshit with stupid arguments.


Now, I'm no American but isn't the fried chicken, watermelon stuff an African AMERICAN stereotype? That's how I've always understood the stereotype. 

The Cornette N-Word story was about a security guy who egged on a fight and caused a riot in a small SMW town. The guy was doing something stupid (Trying to get over at the wrestlers expense if I recall correctly) so Cornette in character called him the N-Word. Cornette has said it's not right, I agree it's not right but it happened, he's apologised and we should all be able to move on.

The rolling his eyes and being annoyed thing I don't think I've ever heard.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Now, I'm no American but isn't the fried chicken, watermelon stuff an African AMERICAN stereotype? That's how I've always understood the stereotype.
> 
> The Cornette N-Word story was about a security guy who egged on a fight and caused a riot in a small SMW town. The guy was doing something stupid (Trying to get over at the wrestlers expense if I recall correctly) so Cornette in character called him the N-Word. Cornette has said it's not right, I agree it's not right but it happened, he's apologised and we should all be able to move on.
> 
> The rolling his eyes and being annoyed thing I don't think I've ever heard.


Being in character gives right to racially vilify members of public?
In 2019 Cornette was still telling racist jokes


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Being in character gives right to racially vilify members of public?
> In 2019 Cornette was still telling racist jokes


It wasn't a racial joke it was a hunger joke.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It wasn't a racial joke it was a hunger joke.


Haha


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

You can’t say it wouldn’t be entertaining if Russo or Cornette “jumped the fence” and cut a promo on the crowd at a future PPV while being booed to death by the fans.

Then you have a Hangman get a simple comeuppance on behalf of the crowd to a massive pop.

Writes itself and everyone would be happy afterwards. 

It’s fun seeing outside cameos from the likes of Bischoff, Tyson, etc, and you can’t say these guys don’t know how to work up some heat.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What does this have to do with him using a bucket of fried chicken in his joke?
> 
> I swear you guys will take a bullet for Jim Cornette if he asked you to. The grasping at straws here is hilarious


You’re assuming the “bucket of fried chicken” is interchangeable with any piece of food, but there is additional humour you’re missing.

The imagery of someone cycling while carrying a “bucket” of food is ridiculous, which makes the joke even funnier.

Can you think of something funnier and more ridiculous than “cycling with a bucket of chicken?”

I understand that to claim the joke is racist, you need to draw a direct connection between fried chicken and Ethiopians, and you’ll say there’s some people out there who believe there is a stereotype about African Americans liking fried chicken.

But that connection is extremely weak and doesn’t make sense to a majority of the world’s population.

If you tell a friend in Japan that theres a stereotype in some parts of America about AA people liking fried chicken, what do you expect would be their reaction to that information? 

“okay? I like fried chicken too?”

And the you generalise an African American stereotype to Ethiopians just because they’re both black.

Aren’t you being racist by assuming all black people around the world fall into the African American version of black history?


----------



## Peggio Boys (Aug 7, 2019)

Dickhead1990 said:


> A man who reminds me of Abe Simpson yelling at a cloud


WHEN IT'S ENOUGH ENOUGH WITH THAT GOD FORSAKEN MEME.


Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Peggio Boys (Aug 7, 2019)

Fiy, you can't play it up as "oh these guys are irrelevant", and then type 180 comments on a thread about them, you just can't sorry.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X00PD utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

"Wrestling is dead and gone because nobody takes it seriously and it died years ago and everyone is an idiot now and everything sucks! OK, thanks for listening guys, see you next week!"

"This week, wrestling sucks and nobody takes it seriously and everything sucks! Next week, wrestling sucks and nobody takes it seriously and everything stinks! The week after that..."

Cornette and his fans man. One big circle jerk over one topic that never ever ends.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Thesis


You became Ted Bundy's lawyer the second that you tried telling everyone that using fried chicken in the joke had nothing to do with black people

Absolute nonsense that discredits your entire argument


----------



## stevem20 (Jul 24, 2018)

Not true. I don't listen to either of them, and still think AEW is just not entertaining. It's every bit as bad as Raw, but maybe they deserve a bit more leeway as their the new kid on the block, so they might improve.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

IronMan8 said:


> You’re assuming the “bucket of fried chicken” is interchangeable with any piece of food, but there is additional humour you’re missing.
> 
> The imagery of someone cycling while carrying a “bucket” of food is ridiculous, which makes the joke even funnier.
> 
> ...


I have tried to point out time, after time, after time that people thinking a stereotype about black people in the US somehow applies to different groups of black people in other parts of the world as if all black people everywhere are the same is a much more messed up claim, but the "woke" never think they are part of the problem.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I have tried to point out time, after time, after time that people thinking a stereotype about black people in the US somehow applies to different groups of black people in other parts of the world as if all black people everywhere are the same is a much more messed up claim, but the "woke" never think they are part of the problem.


That is a complete spin

I never said that all blacks are the same, but Jim Cornette might think that. Why the hell else would he use a *BUCKET OF FRIED CHICKEN *in his joke instead of any other food in the world? Who the fuck thinks of starvation in Ethiopia and fried chicken comes to mind, unless their mind connects black people with fried chicken?

The mere idea that you guys would say that this is a coincidence makes your defense of Jim Cornette even more pathetic


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> That is a complete spin
> 
> I never said that all blacks are the same, but Jim Cornette might think that. Why the hell else would he use a *BUCKET OF FRIED CHICKEN *in his joke instead of any other food in the world? Who the fuck thinks of starvation in Ethiopia and fried chicken comes to mind, unless their mind connects black people with fried chicken?
> 
> The mere idea that you guys would say that this is a coincidence makes your defense of Jim Cornette even more pathetic


Again, NOT a joke he came up with. Take it up with Evel Knievel, except he is dead.

And also again, I even granted to you yesterday in a thought experiment that even conceding it was a racial joke, it is still a joke. It does not imply the teller is in fact a racist. No more than any comedian who tells a joke. People in 2020 are taking things way too literally and want to read every possible bad actor motive into everything anyone does.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Usually Cornette threads that contain this exact conversation gets shut down pretty quickly when created by certain posters. Just saying..


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Lheurch said:


> Again, NOT a joke he came up with. Take it up with Evel Knievel, except he is dead.
> 
> And also again, I even granted to you yesterday in a thought experiment that even conceding it was a racial joke, it is still a joke. It does not imply the teller is in fact a racist. No more than any comedian who tells a joke. People in 2020 are taking things way too literally and want to read every possible bad actor motive into everything anyone does.


It’s a relief to see rational people still exist!


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Actually OP, while Jim is wrong at times, he also has had valid points that are usually backed well with logic and reasoning, and evidence.


----------



## Dab00g (Jul 7, 2020)

La Parka said:


> Maybe AEW being shitty is why people crap on AEW.
> 
> I don't think you need to listen to a podcast to see why a dude rubbing oil on himself or someone ramming their ass in someones face is stupid.


But i like rishi and who in pro wrestling does not use baby oil?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Usually Cornette threads that contain this exact conversation gets shut down pretty quickly when created by certain posters. Just saying..


Oh you're one of those people

Translation: WaaaaWaaaaWaaaaaaaaa. Someone please censor this thread. I can't stand people talking negatively about my precious hero and cult leader Jim Cornette


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Wrestling fans love wrestling. They obsess over it. Casuals who can give this shit up because it insults their intelligence long ago have since moved on with their lives. That could have been Goldberg losing, Austin shaking Vince's hand or Triple H boring them to tears. The people who stuck it out have an attraction to this industry for whatever reason. That is why I get so annoyed when people ask questions like "Why would you care about something you don't like." It's completely ignorant and kind of insulting to a lot of hardcore wrestling fans who wish they fucking could. Attribute it to autism, Asperger's or just blue-sky thinking. A lot of wrestling fans CAN'T give this shit up. So fuck every single one of you who acts like it should be easy to just go and get a new hobby. Fuck you.

I'm a salty wrestling fan because I haven't seen good US-based modern wrestling in a long time. My taste is going neglected. I'm also quite the independent thinker. I was one of the first to champion AEW on here, and I was one of the first to criticise them. That doesn't make me great or anything, but fuck you for telling me that my thoughts are solely impacted by outside influences. Yeah, I love listening to Jim Cornette. Do you know why? Because he makes sense to me. I didn't decide I love the guy and then build up a wrestling worldview around him to my enjoyment's detriment. He won me over with his reason and explanations as to why things are or are not working. Sometimes I do learn things from him -- he's smarter than me. There's nothing wrong with learning something from an expert. But to say that people don't like it _because_ of them? Well, if that's true then I don't want to hear about Cornette being irrelevant ever again. That's relevancy writ large. Imagine being _that_ influential. Wow.

What a lot of fanboys and people into the modern stuff ignore is that most wrestling fans _don't_ like this stuff. Go to any forum. It's really hard to find a sincere long-time fan that is sincerely into this stuff. WWE is almost universally regarded as awful. I would say that AEW is awful, but I'd put its "Rotten Tomatoes" score at <80%. My gut tells me ~65%.Yes, some stuff gets praise -- Jericho, Moxley, MJF, Kenny Omega, the tag teams apparently matter (lies) -- but there is plenty that is universally panned. The Dark Order, the women's division, how they push monsters, comedy characters getting too much air time, etc. But the point is is that this wrestling isn't _that_ good even if you consider yourself a fan. People _want_ it to be good, and some will pretend that bad stuff works when it doesn't, and others (like me), just don't have the patience for that anymore.

It's not just Cornette and Russo. It's most people that have ever given wrestling a chance or have considered themselves even remotely a "fan." It's my last wrestling buddy who wanted to watch WrestleMania 21 with me because he got into the Batista story but couldn't tell you what the fuck an Orange Cassidy is, and more importantly, would hate him when he knew he was getting paid six figures to be so fucking bad while he struggles with mortgage payments and somehow manages to keep himself in relative shape. It's my relative who got me hooked and explained to me why Bret Hart is the best wrestler ever who said "Remember when wrestling used to be cool? I'm surprised they'd give him a spot on their show," when Roddy Piper made a guest appearance on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. It's people who remember The Road Warriors from their childhood and think "Cool!" and then switch over and see The Best Friends hugging in the middle of a fight. It's a girl I know who used to think Chris Jericho was hot but saw him recently and said "Ew." It's _most_ fucking people. The people attending your church, drinking your punch, in your cult -- they're going to think like you do. They think Matt Hardy teleporting is cool. They think Orange Cassidy is funny. They don't think Jericho is sad. But you are in a bubble. You are a fraction of a fraction. Most one-time wrestling fans aren't wrestling fans anymore. That's not Cornette nor Russo's fault (well, maybe a bit Russo's).

People crap on AEW because it sucks.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Oh you're one of those people
> 
> Translation: WaaaaWaaaaWaaaaaaaaa. Someone please censor this thread. I can't stand people talking negatively about my precious hero and cult leader Jim Cornette


Nah just starting to see the double standards on here. I have listened to Cornette's podcast 5 times I think. I'm a fan of his knowledge of wrestling history but anyone that's paying attention knows I'm not a fan of his at all. So fuck off, troll.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Can confirm. Cult03 has always maintained that he doesn't listen to Cornette on the regular. How annoying must it be to constantly be labelled something you're not (Kind of like me being labelled a WWE fanboy)


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can confirm. Cult03 has always maintained that he doesn't listen to Cornette on the regular. How annoying must it be to constantly be labelled something you're not (Kind of like me being labelled a WWE fanboy)


It makes it easier when people can argue against a straw man generalization instead of taking on specific arguments from specific people. Easier to attack as a group.


----------



## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What difference does it make if it's assault.


Strutting and showing off aren't fucking felonies. You are disgusting.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> These 2 bitter hasbeens spend all of their time moaning about AEW on their podcasts. For some reason they both have cult followers that parrot everything they say and unfortunately the minority has the loudest voice.
> 
> What their cult followers don't understand is both these losers are trying to get jobs with AEW by heeling it up. They hope that by being contrarians they will be hated by the AEW fanbase and that will make them relevant again.


Did you ever listen to the rants, which Alvarez did about the the WWE program? WWE survived that and AEW will survive that as well.
Also I think your are wrong here. If Cornette was not hired from the beginning (or declined it as he says) after talking to TK, why should he be hired now? Especially after that NWA thing and him reveiling details of the conversation with Tony Khan. I highly doubt Cornette is soo stupid, that he seriously would think getting a job there.
Also got my doubts, that Russo plans that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cornette would have a job in a minute. As if they wouldn’t want him cutting promos on their show. Jericho and Meltzer go after him for attention all the time.

I’m starting to think Russo would too. AEW’s booking is very Russoriffic.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I have tried to point out time, after time, after time that people thinking a stereotype about black people in the US somehow applies to different groups of black people in other parts of the world as if all black people everywhere are the same is a much more messed up claim, but the "woke" never think they are part of the problem.


Thing is though cornette didnt mutter this BS while on tv in ethiopia....he did it in the US where black people and the general american population indeed make the connection of racism.This isn't about how the rest of the world perceive a racial stereotype from America,this is cornette muttering this BS for a cheap pop and it backfired.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Thing is though cornette didnt mutter this BS while on tv in ethiopia....he did it in the US where black people and the general american population indeed make the connection of racism.This isn't about how the rest of the world perceive a racial stereotype from America,this is cornette muttering this BS for a cheap pop and it backfired.


I have already gone through the history of the Ethiopian starvation stuff in the US in the 90's. Not going to go through it again. Also, commentators cannot get a cheap pop by definition, the live audience cannot hear them.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Thing is though cornette didnt mutter this BS while on tv in ethiopia....he did it in the US where black people and the general american population indeed make the connection of racism.This isn't about how the rest of the world perceive a racial stereotype from America,this is cornette muttering this BS for a cheap pop and it backfired.


Someone gets it


Amazing how people are still trying to pretend like there isn't a connection between fried chicken and black people in Cornette's joke


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I have already gone through the history of the Ethiopian starvation stuff in the US in the 90's. Not going to go through it again. Also, commentators cannot get a cheap pop by definition, the live audience cannot hear them.


I get the Ethiopian starvation thing obviously I know who starvin marvin is lol, but really telling that joke this day in age and expecting people not to immediately think its racist was absolutely idiotic.The whole argument of "well the bucket of chicken is just a funny visual aid" is just a poor argument you gotta be smarter then that.But like I said the guy seems stuck in the 80s so I guess something like this should have been expected.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I get the Ethiopian starvation thing obviously I know who starvin marvin is lol, but really telling that joke this day in age and expecting people not to immediately think its racist was absolutely idiotic.The whole argument of "well the bucket of chicken is just a funny visual aid" is just a poor argument you gotta be smarter then that.But like I said the guy seems stuck in the 80s so I guess something like this should have been expected.


It is just one of those things where you say "that was a dumb joke, I am going to roll my eyes and move on." not "wow that joke makes me able to read his mind and know he is clearly a major closeted racist. We should proceed to make sure he is unable to make a living anywhere at any time."


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Cornette would have a job in a minute. As if they wouldn’t want him cutting promos on their show. Jericho and Meltzer go after him for attention all the time.
> 
> I’m starting to think Russo would too. AEW’s booking is very Russoriffic.


Take away the gymnastics and spotfest in-ring action - It's Russo 1997 as opposed to 1999 or God forbid 2000. Each episode of Dynamite is a rather bland episode of Raw is War from that time period. Almost like a 37 year old rich kid is acting out being 13 years old again...He's replaced the PWI, Observer and Hasbro Toys with a real booking sheet LOL

Damn shame Tony wasn't into Mid South '86.


----------



## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

The Wood said:


> Cornette would have a job in a minute. As if they wouldn’t want him cutting promos on their show. Jericho and Meltzer go after him for attention all the time.
> 
> I’m starting to think Russo would too. AEW’s booking is very Russoriffic.


Russoriffic in what way? Russo booked stupid names, interference in every match, brawls here there and everywhere, title changes 12 times a night, gimmick matches with stupid stipulations, attractive women who couldn't spell wrestling and swerves galore. I don't watch AEW often, but it's never been the stupid crash tv, that Russo booked.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

people still trying defend Cornette is very telling as to how these people think.

numerous times the dude has said some racist shit. even New Jack has said he pretty racist even though they're friends, just cause Cornette is a friends with one or two black guys doesn't mean he can say whatever the fuck he wants withouth being called a racist and a cuck.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

alex0816 said:


> people still trying defend Cornette is very telling as to how these people think.
> 
> numerous times the dude has said some racist shit. even New Jack has said he pretty racist even though they're friends, just cause Cornette is a friends with one or two black guys doesn't mean he can say whatever the fuck he wants withouth being called a racist and a cuck.


Yea but there's a lot of "he said, she said". Doesn't mean cause New Jack said things that is true. Especially since the New Jack is not the most stand up citizen. It's not like it's Scorpio Sky saying this.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea but there's a lot of "he said, she said". Doesn't mean cause New Jack said things that is true. Especially since the New Jack is not the most stand up citizen. It's not like it's Scorpio Sky saying this.


dude booked New Jack and Mustafa as these gangstas who loved beating up white people in smokey mountain, used fried chicken and watemelon as props, say OJ Simpson should keep up the good work. and do this in southern states knowing there are gonna be racist white people down there. granted some of this was New Jacks ideas, but dude knew the reactions they would get and was ok with it.

also a racist rant on youtube. "he's using it to get heat" if you need to be racist to get heat, maybe you aren't that fucking great. and his racist comment, cause that's what it was, in nwa last year.

im convinced that if Cornette went on his podcast and said killing babies shouldn't be frowned upon, people would still defend him


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Cornette is a racist, makes homophobic remarks & with his wife was in relationship with wrestler as owner of ovw. Why do ppl still listen to this guy??


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

alex0816 said:


> dude booked New Jack and Mustafa as these gangstas who loved beating up white people in smokey mountain, used fried chicken and watemelon as props, say OJ Simpson should keep up the good work. and do this in southern states knowing there are gonna be racist white people down there. granted some of this was New Jacks ideas, but dude knew the reactions they would get and was ok with it.
> 
> also a racist rant on youtube. "he's using it to get heat" if you need to be racist to get heat, maybe you aren't that fucking great. and his racist comment, cause that's what it was, in nwa last year.
> 
> im convinced that if Cornette went on his podcast and said killing babies shouldn't be frowned upon, people would still defend him


It was during a wrestling show to get heat, you do understand this, right? Not saying it was in good taste but wrestling is not real, brah.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Wolf Mark said:


> It was during a wrestling show to get heat, you do understand this, right? Not saying it was in good taste but wrestling is not real, brah.


again, if you need to resort to calling guys the N bomb or resorting to racist comments to get heat, you ain't that good

yet some think this guy should be a booker in AEW or any other promotion?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> Cornette is a racist, makes homophobic remarks & with his wife was in relationship with wrestler as owner of ovw. Why do ppl still listen to this guy??


Because you have no idea what you are talking about. Should be a common feeling for you at this point.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

alex0816 said:


> again, if you need to resort to calling guys the N bomb or resorting to racist comments to get heat, you ain't that good
> 
> yet some think this guy should be a booker in AEW or any other promotion?


Cornette booked WCW in the late 80s when Flair was going after Steamboat during their classic feud, seems to me like he was doing a solid job there.

Booking a low rent small wrestling promotion like Smokey Mountain Wrestling is not the same as booking a Top billion dollar promotion. On SMW, they had to resort to every trick in the book to get heat and keep these small crowds from going away. In many ways, that is what made ECW successful, doing extreme heat. Cornette has not done this with the majority of the places he worked at after that.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

alex0816 said:


> dude booked New Jack and Mustafa as these gangstas who loved beating up white people in smokey mountain, used fried chicken and watemelon as props, say OJ Simpson should keep up the good work. and do this in southern states knowing there are gonna be racist white people down there. granted some of this was New Jacks ideas, but dude knew the reactions they would get and was ok with it.
> 
> also a racist rant on youtube. "he's using it to get heat" if you need to be racist to get heat, maybe you aren't that fucking great. and his racist comment, cause that's what it was, in nwa last year.
> 
> im convinced that if Cornette went on his podcast and said killing babies shouldn't be frowned upon, people would still defend him


Xenophobia is an asset for a heel if done right.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Cornette booked WCW in the late 80s when Flair was going after Steamboat during their classic feud, seems to me like he was doing a solid job there.
> 
> Booking a low rent small wrestling promotion like Smokey Mountain Wrestling is not the same as booking a Top billion dollar promotion. On SMW, they had to resort to every trick in the book to get heat and keep these small crowds from going away. In many ways, that is what made ECW successful, doing extreme heat. Cornette has not done this with the majority of the places he worked at after that.


No justification for racially vilifying fans & security


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

theboxingfan said:


> Russoriffic in what way? Russo booked stupid names, interference in every match, brawls here there and everywhere, title changes 12 times a night, gimmick matches with stupid stipulations, attractive women who couldn't spell wrestling and swerves galore. I don't watch AEW often, but it's never been the stupid crash tv, that Russo booked.


Are you talking about Russo or AEW? All those things apply to both. 



alex0816 said:


> people still trying defend Cornette is very telling as to how these people think.
> 
> numerous times the dude has said some racist shit. even New Jack has said he pretty racist even though they're friends, just cause Cornette is a friends with one or two black guys doesn't mean he can say whatever the fuck he wants withouth being called a racist and a cuck.


You enjoy kink-shaming way too much to ever throw moral stones at anyone.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> ]You enjoy kink-shaming way too much to ever throw moral stones at anyone.


only when it comes to Corny and his racist, stuck in the 80s ass

and i stand by my statement that he can go on his podcast, say killing babies shouldn't be frowned upon, and people would still defend him. his fans are almost as much of a nutjob as he is


----------



## Diamond Cutter (May 3, 2010)

alex0816 said:


> only when it comes to Corny and his racist, stuck in the 80s ass


Guy is stuck in a time when Wrestling was awesome .. . ..wow .. .crazy


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> It is just one of those things where you say "that was a dumb joke, I am going to roll my eyes and move on." not "wow that joke makes me able to read his mind and know he is clearly a major closeted racist. We should proceed to make sure he is unable to make a living anywhere at any time."


If someone somewhere wants to take their chances and hire him then it's on them. There's a reason why he can't keep a job anywhere. He's highly toxic and provides more problems then brings help to the promotions that he works for.

He's exactly like Russo. He's a charming talker that makes you believe he knows what he's doing, but time ends up exposing how utterly useless they are.

Jim Cornette should ONLY be hired as an on air talent because he's an easy heel manager to hate, and that's being generous because I'm not exactly sure that there's many young fans that would really care if he's on their tv or not. At his age and physical state I don't think its healthy to be out there every week


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> If someone somewhere wants to take their chances and hire him then it's on them. There's a reason why he can't keep a job anywhere. He's highly toxic and provides more problems then brings help to the promotions that he works for.
> 
> He's exactly like Russo. He's a charming talker that makes you believe he knows what he's doing, but time ends up exposing how utterly useless they are.


- Has been in the industry 45 years.

- Keister Fredrickson from WrestlingForum says he's useless therefore it must be true.

Jog on mate. Nobody in their right mind says Cornette is useless.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> - Has been in the industry 45 years.
> 
> - Keister Fredrickson from WrestlingForum says he's useless therefore it must be true.
> 
> Jog on mate. Nobody in their right mind says Cornette is useless.


Your post is useless


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Your post is useless


Yeah, if I agreed it'd be cool though, lol.

At the end of the day Cornette has been accused by people of being stuck in the past which might be a fair criticism but to suggest he's useless is just wrong. If he was useless he wouldn't have been signed to every major promotion ever (Apart from AEW who wanted him but he turned down)


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, if I agreed it'd be cool though, lol.
> 
> At the end of the day Cornette has been accused by people of being stuck in the past which might be a fair criticism but to suggest he's useless is just wrong. If he was useless he wouldn't have been signed to every major promotion ever (Apart from AEW who wanted him but he turned down)


In 2020 he's useless

One can argue that he's been useless since the start of the 90s, unless you believe that hogwash about him "grooming" guys in OVW that would've become stars without his help. Got his ass fired from that gig too


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> If someone somewhere wants to take their chances and hire him then it's on them. There's a reason why he can't keep a job anywhere. He's highly toxic and provides more problems then brings help to the promotions that he works for.
> 
> He's exactly like Russo. He's a charming talker that makes you believe he knows what he's doing, but time ends up exposing how utterly useless they are.
> 
> Jim Cornette should ONLY be hired as an on air talent because he's an easy heel manager to hate, and that's being generous because I'm not exactly sure that there's many young fans that would really care if he's on their tv or not. At his age and physical state I don't think its healthy to be out there every week


He is a very smart guy, but he is also nuts. I have never, ever denied he is nuts. He DOES know what he is doing though and his knowledge of wrestling and its history is pretty incredible. Even people he does not get along with acknowledge that. Russo is a charming talker but at the end of the day knows nothing. Cornette knows the business inside and out.

He would still be an amazing manager today. Imagine Cornette managing a heel Kenny Omega. Imagine that crowd reaction and money being printed. Young people might not know him, but give him a few promos on any show and they will all see his talent. His age? He is under 60 and has knee issues but it is not like he is disabled. He is younger than Arn, Tully, Jake, Tony, JR, etc. He simply hates traveling and just does not need to do it anymore.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> He is a very smart guy, but he is also nuts. I have never, ever denied he is nuts. He DOES know what he is doing though and his knowledge of wrestling and its history is pretty incredible. Even people he does not get along with acknowledge that. Russo is a charming talker but at the end of the day knows nothing. Cornette knows the business inside and out.
> 
> He would still be an amazing manager today. Imagine Cornette managing a heel Kenny Omega. Imagine that crowd reaction and money being printed. Young people might not know him, but give him a few promos on any show and they will all see his talent. His age? He is under 60 and has knee issues but it is not like he is disabled. He is younger than Arn, Tully, Jake, Tony, JR, etc. He simply hates traveling and just does not need to do it anymore.


Cornette knows the business according to how he grew up in it. He knew nothing about growing with the times. I utterly can't stand Vince Russo as much as Cornette and agree he knew nothing about the business but at least he understood the audience he was writing for and lived outside of the wrestling bubble. They're both utterly useless today. Russo doesn't know shit about today's audience and Cornette is just about as cool as a rotten frying egg on your doorstep in the middle of July. His knowledge of wrestling history is fine if you like that stuff but it's not going to help AEW one lick. No one cares that Robert Gibson got ribbed in a bathroom stall at a titties bar one night in 1981


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Cornette knows the business according to how he grew up in it. He knew nothing about growing with the times. I utterly can't stand Vince Russo as much as Cornette and agree he knew nothing about the business but at least he understood the audience he was writing for and lived outside of the wrestling bubble. They're both utterly useless today. Russo doesn't know shit about today's audience and Cornette is just about as cool as a rotten frying egg on your doorstep in the middle of July. His knowledge of wrestling history is fine if you like that stuff but it's not going to help AEW one lick. No one cares that Robert Gibson got ribbed in a bathroom stall at a titties bar one night in 1981


I do not really want a PURE Cornette product either, but he would make a great person to come up with ideas and having someone to filter the bad ones out, just like most creative people. Someone clearly needs to filter ideas Jericho and the Bucks come up with too. Calling him useless is just so ignorant. He has given many times on his podcast alternative ways to do things AEW has done and every one of them has been better. There is a reason he was one of the first people Tony Khan talked to before launching his product. It is also very clear everyone in that company listens to all his podcasts too. MJF's promo on Mox was pretty much written by Jim.

Many may not care about random wrestling stories, but I think a lot of people find them highly entertaining. He is also a top tier storyteller and someone who can make a story about Robert Gibson getting ribbed in 1981...well it would not be 1981...interesting. I do not believe they had met yet in 81, but you get the point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I just love that Keister is saying Cornette and Russo don't know shit when they were both massively successful and wrote for audiences 10 times larger than AEW's.

Yet he no doubt has made other posts here saying that Tony Khan, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes and The Bucks know what they're doing.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I do not really want a PURE Cornette product either, but he would make a great person to come up with ideas and having someone to filter the bad ones out, just like most creative people. Someone clearly needs to filter ideas Jericho and the Bucks come up with too. Calling him useless is just so ignorant. He has given many times on his podcast alternative ways to do things AEW has done and every one of them has been better. There is a reason he was one of the first people Tony Khan talked to before launching his product. It is also very clear everyone in that company listens to all his podcasts too. MJF's promo on Mox was pretty much written by Jim.
> 
> Many may not care about random wrestling stories, but I think a lot of people find them highly entertaining. He is also a top tier storyteller and someone who can make a story about Robert Gibson getting ribbed in 1981...well it would not be 1981...interesting. I do not believe they had met yet in 81, but you get the point.


I don't buy it. Anyone can come up with alternative ways to book. It's one thing to look at something after the fact and another to be responsible for the idea making tv and executing it properly. Cornette armchair quarterbacking angles and segments after they took place doesn't make him a genius. I'm sure that Tony Khan would do things differently with angles and segments that didn't hit their targets, but hindsight 2020.

The last major promotion that Cornette booked for was WWF from I believe 1994 to 1996 with Prichard and that was mostly cowshit, then he wrote with Russo in 1997 and by some miracle the show was actually decent but his track record as a writer isn't good


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just love that Keister is saying Cornette and Russo don't know shit when they were both massively successful and wrote for audiences 10 times larger than AEW's.
> 
> Yet he no doubt has made other posts here saying that Tony Khan, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes and The Bucks know what they're doing.


Cornette wrote for what audience that had 10 times the fanbase?

I know Russo got high ratings but he's a 1 hit wonder. Look at his run in WCW and TNA


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> The last major promotion that Cornette booked for was WWF from I believe 1994 to 1996 with Prichard and that was mostly cowshit, then he wrote with Russo in 1997 and by some miracle the show was actually decent but his track record as a writer isn't good


Okay, so at this point you need to keep quiet because you've just proven you don't know what you're talking about and you can't be taken seriously anymore.

Cornette wrote for OVW which was a branch of the WWE. They drew some pretty massive houses but if you don't want to count them then there is still both ROH and TNA who had Cornette write their nationally televised wrestling promotions.

Cornette's last writing job for a major nationally televised promotion was 2012 and he was offered to do it again with AEW but turned it down. Dude is totally relevant in 2020 whether you like it or not.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't buy it. Anyone can come up with alternative ways to book. It's one thing to look at something after the fact and another to be responsible for the idea making tv and executing it properly. Cornette armchair quarterbacking angles and segments after they took place doesn't make him a genius. I'm sure that Tony Khan would do things differently with angles and segments that didn't hit their targets, but hindsight 2020.
> 
> The last major promotion that Cornette booked for was WWF from I believe 1994 to 1996 with Prichard and that was mostly cowshit, then he wrote with Russo in 1997 and by some miracle the show was actually decent but his track record as a writer isn't good


It is not just rebooking angles. It is saying how to get people over and do things going forward. He had already done all of that before Tony Khan graduated high school. And AGAIN, there is a reason Jim was one of the first people called.

Miracles do not exist. Hard work does. It was not magic that caused the product to be good. WCW forced Vince's hand and made him change and try new things. He helped train most of the major stars of the past 20 years when in OVW. He wrote for OVW and was a major reason ROH still exists and got bought by Sinclair. He also has one of the very top wrestling related (and sports related) podcasts in 2020. How many guys that made their names in the 80's can say that?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Cornette wrote for what audience that had 10 times the fanbase?
> 
> I know Russo got high ratings but he's a 1 hit wonder. Look at his run in WCW and TNA


He was writing until 1998 in the WWF apparently. Go check the ratings, see when they started hitting 7 million people for certain segments. I think it was around 1998.

Regardless, he wrote TV for the WWF and at the very least their audience was quadruple what AEW is doing right now.

As for Russo, his WCW run was bad but his TNA run lead to high ratings and a lot of his work (And Eric Bischoff's oddly enough) is considered the best years of TNA. Russo was head writer when TNA achieved their highest rating ever and it was a slow drop when he left. I'm not even a fan of Russo but facts are facts.

You need to stop bro, you don't know what you're talking about and it's making you look ignorant.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, so at this point you need to keep quiet because you've just proven you don't know what you're talking about and you can't be taken seriously anymore.
> 
> Cornette wrote for OVW which was a branch of the WWE. They drew some pretty massive houses but if you don't want to count them then there is still both ROH and TNA who had Cornette write their nationally televised wrestling promotions.
> 
> Cornette's last writing job for a major nationally televised promotion was 2012 and he was offered to do it again with AEW but turned it down. Dude is totally relevant in 2020 whether you like it or not.




Brings up writing for OVW. 10 times the audience. HA HA HA


Got fired from OVW


Calling ROH "major"


Got ousted in ROH as booker



Okay, so at this point you need to keep quiet because you've just proven you don't know what you're talking about and you can't be taken seriously anymore


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He was writing until 1998 in the WWF apparently. Go check the ratings, see when they started hitting 7 million people for certain segments. I think it was around 1998.
> 
> Regardless, he wrote TV for the WWF and at the very least their audience was quadruple what AEW is doing right now.
> 
> ...



Holy mother


Cornette stopped writing for WWF around the time they did that NWA invasion at the very start of 1998. WWF was doing badly in the ratings. They did better when Tyson came in which I'm sure Jim was already out by then


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Brings up writing for OVW. 10 times the audience. HA HA HA
> 
> 
> Got fired from OVW
> ...


Well what the fuck is classed as major then?

OVW when Cornette had it was one of the top independents in the country and was getting some massive crowds. I never said it was doing 10 times the ratings (That's WWF only) but successful local promotion to the point that it'd probably be top 10 from 2000 onwards? Definitely.

ROH is national, you don't class that as major? Okay.jpg


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Holy mother
> 
> 
> Cornette stopped writing for WWF around the time they did that NWA invasion at the very start of 1998. WWF was doing badly in the ratings. They did better when Tyson came in which I'm sure Jim was already out by then


So...Your evidence Jim stopped writing before the AE is that "you're sure?"


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well what the fuck is classed as major then?
> 
> OVW when Cornette had it was one of the top independents in the country and was getting some massive crowds. I never said it was doing 10 times the ratings (That's WWF only) but successful local promotion to the point that it'd probably be top 10 from 2000 onwards? Definitely.
> 
> ROH is national, you don't class that as major? Okay.jpg


Successful and major are defined as anything AEW does, duh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Holy mother
> 
> 
> Cornette stopped writing for WWF around the time they did that NWA invasion at the very start of 1998. WWF was doing badly in the ratings. They did better when Tyson came in which I'm sure Jim was already out by then


Okay, so lets go with Cornette leaving on January 1st, 1998 just to be fair to you.

The last rating for 1997 was a 4.6 which ratings wise is about 5.2 - 5.3 million isn't it? AEW averages just 700,000 and it'd be party time if they got over a million.

So Cornette Mr. Irrelevant was managing an audience of almost 8 times the size of AEW's (300,000 off). Meanwhile you praise Cody and the gang as relevant when they'll never get close to a 4.6


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well what the fuck is classed as major then?
> 
> OVW when Cornette had it was one of the top independents in the country and was getting some massive crowds. I never said it was doing 10 times the ratings (That's WWF only) but successful local promotion to the point that it'd probably be top 10 from 2000 onwards? Definitely.
> 
> ROH is national, you don't class that as major? Okay.jpg


Got disqualified from this discussion as soon as you started insinuating that Corny was writing for WWF when they were hitting 7 million viewers


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, so lets go with Cornette leaving on January 1st, 1998 just to be fair to you.
> 
> The last rating for 1997 was a 4.6 which ratings wise is about 5.2 - 5.3 million isn't it? AEW averages just 700,000 and it'd be party time if they got over a million.
> 
> So Cornette Mr. Irrelevant was managing an audience of almost 8 times the size of AEW's (300,000 off). Meanwhile you praise Cody and the gang as relevant when they'll never get close to a 4.6


Last rating for RAW in 1997 was a 3.0. Check your facts


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Last rating for RAW in 1997 was a 3.0. Check your facts


It was a 3.6. If AEW did half that it would be hailed as the greatest thing in the history of wrestling by Dave and crew.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> It was a 3.6. If AEW did half that it would be hailed as the greatest thing in the history of wrestling by Dave and crew.


AEW is a brand new promotion with none of the rich history WWE has. Do you know how popular WWF was shorty before Corny started writing for them?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> AEW is a brand new promotion with none of the rich history WWE has. Do you know how popular WWF was shorty before Corny started writing for them?


Yes, quite low. The business overall was at a low point across the board.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Yes, quite low. The business overall was at a low point across the board.


What are you looking at, a year, two years prior? I said shortly prior, as in like 5 years earlier they were doing monster business and were a massive brand. Corny started writing for a promotion that had a large install base and sunk the numbers lower with Prichard. Not a good look


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Last rating for RAW in 1997 was a 3.0. Check your facts


Okay, the website I was on was wrong. My bad. I've checked another and I'm reading 3.6 which is about 4 million people.

So 4 times AEW's audience. You're not arguing a great point mate it's still 3.3 million people more tuning into the Cornette written show as opposed to Tony "I wrote 4 shows in 15 minutes" Khan.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay, the website I was on was wrong. My bad. I've checked another and I'm reading 3.6 which is about 4 million people.
> 
> So 4 times AEW's audience. You're not arguing a great point mate it's still 3.3 million people more tuning into the Cornette written show as opposed to Tony "I wrote 4 shows in 15 minutes" Khan.


Weird defense

WWF had a rich history and a dedicated audience. You're comparing that to a promotion that just started last year

Shouldn't be surprised, coming from the guy that thought Cornette was responsible for 7 million viewers


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> What are you looking at, a year, two years prior? I said shortly prior, as in like 5 years earlier they were doing monster business and were a massive brand. Corny started writing for a promotion that had a large install base and sunk the numbers lower with Prichard. Not a good look


My fault for not reading your mind. The business was down overall. Look at Jim Crockett/WCW ratings in the very early 90's. He started in the WWF in 1993, the year RAW premiered. The business was already bad before he got there. It got worse before it got better as 94 and 95 were obviously very bad years, but hard work pays off and it takes time to build people up. But we need to be completely honest and NO ONE other than Vince McMahon is booking WWF then...now...forever. It took WCW to start winning for him to change. Not Jim Cornette, not Bruce Prichard, not Vince Russo is going to override Vince McMahon.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> My fault for not reading your mind. The business was down overall. Look at Jim Crockett/WCW ratings in the very early 90's. He started in the WWF in 1993, the year RAW premiered. The business was already bad before he got there. It got worse before it got better as 94 and 95 were obviously very bad years, but hard work pays off and it takes time to build people up. But we need to be completely honest and NO ONE other than Vince McMahon is booking WWF then...now...forever. It took WCW to start winning for him to change. Not Jim Cornette, not Bruce Prichard, not Vince Russo is going to override Vince McMahon.


WWF is Cornette's only real claim to legitimacy as a writer. If you're going to disqualify his input in WWF then he has nothing left to validate him as a credible writer. If not, then he wrote with Prichard for 3 years and those were cowshit years. Jean Pierre LaFitte the pirate stealing Bret Hart's coat? Really? Take it or leave it

If Jerry Jarrett took over for Vince and Cornette was given full creative control then WWF would be out of business today. Thank god McMahon had a leech on everyone


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Weird defense
> 
> WWF had a rich history and a dedicated audience. You're comparing that to a promotion that just started last year
> 
> Shouldn't be surprised, coming from the guy that thought Cornette was responsible for 7 million viewers


Fair point, a fair comparison would be TNA no doubt? It was only like 9 months into it's run on Spike TV when Cornette got there in mid 2006.

First 4 episodes under Cornette's run writing for TNA:

22/06/06 - 1.1 (Approximately 1.3 - 1.4 million people)

29/06/06 - 1.1

06/07/06 - 1.0 (1.1 - 1.2 million people)

13/07/06 - 0.9 (1.0 - 1.1 million people)


Quick, find another excuse to discredit Cornette's career.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> WWF is Cornette's only real claim to legitimacy as a writer. If you're going to disqualify his input in WWF then he has nothing left to validate him as a credible writer. If not, then he wrote with Prichard for 3 years and those were cowshit years. Jean Pierre LaFitte the pirate stealing Bret Hart's coat? Really? Take it or leave it
> 
> If Jerry Jarrett took over for Vince and Cornette was given full creative control then WWF would be out of business today. Thank god McMahon had a leech on everyone


Wait, these timelines keep changing. Now you are claiming he stopped writing in 1996? The NWA invasion was in 1998...

Having a filter throw out your bad ideas is not negating ones writing ability. VKM filtered everyone's input back then and does even more so today. Jim obviously wrote for the WWF and Vince either approved or rejected his ideas, same as Bruce and Russo.

Vince is doing a fine enough job of putting himself out of business today. He does not need Jerry Jarrett to do it. My hope is AEW will stop doing the dumb stuff they do so we can get a proper competition back and cause both companies to up their game. Does anyone on here really want a different outcome?


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Fair point, a fair comparison would be TNA no doubt? It was only like 9 months into it's run on Spike TV when Cornette got there in mid 2006.
> 
> First 4 episodes under Cornette's run writing for TNA:
> 
> ...


I don't think that you should keep arguing with numbers anymore. You've already made a fool of yourself in this department

Cornette in TNA was a joke. They tried having him work with Russo after their well established hatred for one another. He left there on bad terms, like he left mostly every other place he's worked for since 1990


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Wait, these timelines keep changing. Now you are claiming he stopped writing in 1996? The NWA invasion was in 1998...
> 
> Having a filter throw out your bad ideas is not negating ones writing ability. VKM filtered everyone's input back then and does even more so today. Jim obviously wrote for the WWF and Vince either approved or rejected his ideas, same as Bruce and Russo.
> 
> Vince is doing a fine enough job of putting himself out of business today. He does not need Jerry Jarrett to do it. My hope is AEW will stop doing the dumb stuff they do so we can get a proper competition back and cause both companies to up their game. Does anyone on here really want a different outcome?


I said he worked with PRICHARD for 3 years. Prichard didnt write beyond 1996...


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I said he worked with PRICHARD for 3 years. Prichard didnt write beyond 1996...


So he got better after Prichard took over for JJ Dillion in talent relations? Is that your point? Prichard sucked but after he left it got better? Weird way to argue Jim was the problem.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> So he got better after Prichard took over for JJ Dillion in talent relations? Is that your point? Prichard sucked but after he left it got better? Weird way to argue Jim was the problem.


No, he worked with Russo. 


Russo understood what the audience wanted. He's a moron in many other areas but he clicked in the late 90s. As soon as Jim left creative the ratings soared. Coincidence? Probably but it's not a good look for Corny


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> No, he worked with Russo.
> 
> 
> Russo understood what the audience wanted. He's a moron in many other areas but he clicked in the late 90s. As soon as Jim left creative the ratings soared. Coincidence? Probably but it's not a good look for Corny


Ah, so you actually are just a Russo mark. Now I understand even though you previously argued Russo knew nothing. The ratings were building and building while Jim was still there. WCW winning was the catalyst for change, not Jim and not Russo. Vince McMahon had to be forced to change first. Jim pretty much begged to leave Connecticut. This is all known stuff, no one is breaking ground here. I can imagine working with hacks like Kevin Dunn and Vince Russo would become quite annoying.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Ah, so you actually are just a Russo mark. Now I understand even though you previously argued Russo knew nothing. The ratings were building and building while Jim was still there. WCW winning was the catalyst for change, not Jim and not Russo. Vince McMahon had to be forced to change first. Jim pretty much begged to leave Connecticut. This is all known stuff, no one is breaking ground here. I can imagine working with hacks like Kevin Dunn and Vince Russo would become quite annoying.


He begged to leave Connecticut. Well known. According to who? Cornette himself?

No I'm far from a Russo mark. He damaged WCW and TNA and he's clueless like Cornette about AEW. I'm just giving the devil his due he wasn't entirely useless as a writer in WWF unlike Corny


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> He begged to leave Connecticut. Well known. According to who? Cornette himself?
> 
> No I'm far from a Russo mark. He damaged WCW and TNA and he's clueless like Cornette about AEW. I'm just giving the devil his due he wasn't entirely useless as a writer in WWF unlike Corny


Bruce says so too. VKM would never talk about anything. Who says otherwise? Who else would know for sure?

Russo was good with a VKM filter to get rid of 90% of his ideas. Back when VKM was good at doing things.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Bruce says so too. VKM would never talk about anything. Who says otherwise? Who else would know for sure?
> 
> Russo was good with a VKM filter to get rid of 90% of his ideas. Back when VKM was good at doing things.


It's just funny that Russo comes in and suddenly the show isn't so crappy, then Jim leaves and RAW goes on to do record ratings. Looks like 10% of good Russo ideas was better than any of Corny's ideas.

Not even arguing that Russo was filtered, but at least he was filterable. Why couldn't Corny get filtered?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> I don't think that you should keep arguing with numbers anymore. You've already made a fool of yourself in this department
> 
> Cornette in TNA was a joke. They tried having him work with Russo after their well established hatred for one another. He left there on bad terms, like he left mostly every other place he's worked for since 1990


Finding a badly sourced website that had an inflated number and admitting I was wrong upon further investigation is "Making a fool of yourself"? Gee, bit rough. No wonder people don't often admit they got something wrong on this forum. It's considered low class to insult someone for being wrong when they've already said they made a mistake by the way.

Cornette and Russo did work together but Cornette left because he disagreed with where Russo was going creatively. It's never been reported as bad terms at least to my knowledge.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> It's just funny that Russo comes in and suddenly the show isn't so crappy, then Jim leaves and RAW goes on to do record ratings. Looks like 10% of Russo ideas was better than any of Corny's ideas.
> 
> Not even arguing that Russo was filtered, but at least he was filterable. Why couldn't Corny get filtered?


I would still argue that WCW was the catalyst for change. It is not like Russo showed up and things started getting better. Any more than Jim leaving. There was a massive overlap. Cornette obviously was filtered too. He wanted The Patriot to be the next big star and no one is defending that. Vince filtered that. His best ideas made it on the show too. I am not sure how this is an argument.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Finding a badly sourced website that had an inflated number and admitting I was wrong upon further investigation is "Making a fool of yourself"? Gee, bit rough. No wonder people don't often admit they got something wrong on this forum. It's considered low class to insult someone for being wrong when they've already said they made a mistake by the way.
> 
> Cornette and Russo did work together but Cornette left because he disagreed with where Russo was going creatively. It's never been reported as bad terms at least to my knowledge.


Wasnt even thinking about your "not" credible website source, I just remembered how you insinuated that Cornette was writing for a show that brought in 7 million viewers


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Finding a badly sourced website that had an inflated number and admitting I was wrong upon further investigation is "Making a fool of yourself"? Gee, bit rough. No wonder people don't often admit they got something wrong on this forum. It's considered low class to insult someone for being wrong when they've already said they made a mistake by the way.
> 
> Cornette and Russo did work together but Cornette left because he disagreed with where Russo was going creatively. It's never been reported as bad terms at least to my knowledge.


Quite refreshing obviously and of course he did not admit he was wrong too. He said 3.0. It was 3.6. I have no problem admitting mistakes when I am wrong. We will both wait until he admits his number was wrong too.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I would still argue that WCW was the catalyst for change. It is not like Russo showed up and things started getting better. Any more than Jim leaving. There was a massive overlap. Cornette obviously was filtered too. He wanted The Patriot to be the next big star and no one is defending that. Vince filtered that. His best ideas made it on the show too. I am not sure how this is an argument.


Yeah the show magically wrote itself


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Yeah the show magically wrote itself


Well, I am not the one who believes in magic. An amalgam of Jim, Bruce, and Russo wrote the show for a period of time. Vince McMahon ultimately removed ideas he did not like. Jim wrote ideas that got over. So did the others.

Every single one of those shows did better ratings than wrestling does today. That is just an objective fact.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Keister Fredrickson said:


> Wasnt even thinking about your "not" credible website source, I just remembered how you insinuated that Cornette was writing for a show that brought in 7 million viewers


Yeah, I don't know the exact date he stopped writing for them. I mean if you want to get super technical the match hosted on Beyond The Mat between Mike Modest and Tony Jones which shows Cornette backstage right next to Vince McMahon in some kind of clear management position was 15.09.1998. WWF that year managed multiple 6 million plus in the ratings weeks and Cornette had heavy involvement in it even if he wasn't writing.

It all depends on the official date he stopped writing for them. We'd only figure that out by going back and listening to Cornette and Russo shoots. The point remains though that the Cornette written WWF shows shit all over AEW's ratings which you replied with it wasn't a fair comparison. When I suggested TNA which is a much fairer comparison (Especially since many think AEW has already surpassed it) you quickly sidestepped the subject.


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I don't know the exact date he stopped writing for them. I mean if you want to get super technical the match hosted on Beyond The Mat between Mike Modest and Tony Jones which shows Cornette backstage right next to Vince McMahon in some kind of clear management position was 15.09.1998. WWF that year managed multiple 6 million plus in the ratings weeks and Cornette had heavy involvement in it even if he wasn't writing.
> 
> It all depends on the official date he stopped writing for them. We'd only figure that out by going back and listening to Cornette and Russo shoots. The point remains though that the Cornette written WWF shows shit all over AEW's ratings which you replied with it wasn't a fair comparison. When I suggested TNA which is a much fairer comparison (Especially since many think AEW has already surpassed it) you quickly sidestepped the subject.


He got demoted, he didn't get fired. Him hanging around backstage and evaluating talent with Vince and JR means absolutely nothing. Michael Hayes also hung out backstage and was assigned some duties, so what? Vince not flat out firing him in 1998 probably just means that he preferred finding something for Corny to do at some point since he's been with them for years. No one ever talks about Jim Cornette when they talk about the Attitude Era because his contributions are basically not worth talking about. 

Jim Cornette wanted Terry Funk to sit in a box all throughout RAW and debut by coming out of it. Lheurch said that Cornette wanted The Patriot to be the next big star in 1997. They did the NWA invasion to prove to him that this wasn't 1985 anymore and that nobody but my grandma wanted to see Rock & Roll Express on their TV at that point. He was basically useless as a writer, even back then

You need to stop with TNA. Name me one good thing he did there


----------



## Keister Fredrickson (Jul 17, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Well, I am not the one who believes in magic. An amalgam of Jim, Bruce, and Russo wrote the show for a period of time. Vince McMahon ultimately removed ideas he did not like. Jim wrote ideas that got over. So did the others.
> 
> Every single one of those shows did better ratings than wrestling does today. That is just an objective fact.


An objective fact is that out of those 3 names, only one guy was still writing by mid 1998. The periods of time before that was a down in business. Jim and Bruce wrote TV together when RAW was utter cowshit. Bruce left for a position in talent relations and Jim stayed a year longer then went back to doing god knows what but he was ousted from creative. 

WWF Attitude worked because Russo understood the audience and McMahon knew how to filter out all his bad ideas and because of the stars they had


----------



## Dupe1114 (Dec 24, 2020)

I assure you BOTH have NO Desire to work for AEW. I can also assure YOU that TK has no desire to hire RUSSO and CORNETTE would NEVER, EVER work for them. EVER.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

*



Jim Cornette and Vince Russo are the reason why internet wrestling fans crap on AEW

Click to expand...

*Cornette's and Russo`s opinion has not that impact. The reason for people hating is very simple: a good numbers of them only went to AEW, cause they hated WWE before. But you cannot enjoy a program, just because you hate another program. And if people never cared and/or are bored, they start sh&tting on the program sooner or later. But these people will lose interest sooner or later and the overall situation will become better.



Keister Fredrickson said:


> What their cult followers don't understand is both these losers are trying to get jobs with AEW by heeling it up. They hope that by being contrarians they will be hated by the AEW fanbase and that will make them relevant again.


This loser Cornette spoke with TK and he knows and works with some of the wrestler you see on AEW. He even had the Revival on his show and doesn`t need to slime, like many other podcasters do. In opposite to the people posting here, he makes money when talking about the program. So why is he a loser and these people here are not?
About Russo I won`t say stuff, cause I didn`t listen to him since a good while and don`t know what he said. 



RapShepard said:


> ...
> Though the funniest thing is Cornette was widely beloved with hardcore fans until he had a negative opinion on The Elite. When he was doing the same over ..., ... he was a guy who understood what "real wrestling" was all about. But now that he's shitting on a certain product in one of the least popular eras of wrestling "he's old and stuck in the past".


You know what is really funny? Over the last years I heard so many people speaking on their podcasts (e.g., Two Face wrestling on winc), that Cornette was too much hanging in the past etc. etc., when he just mentioned Bucks (pre AEW) here and there, while talking about other stuff. Meanwhile Cornette speaks about AEW on a regular basis, while all these other guys went offline, who thought they know the business - which they were never in - better.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Russo's reputation follows him everywhere and everyone knows that 99% of his ideas are ridiculous.

Cornette is not only annoying but is blatantly just trying to brew cheap controversy by taking hits at AEW all of the time, which is ironically what people criticise AEW of doing to WWE. The thing to remember here is that Cornette is irrelevant and is taking shots at someone who has had more success in a year than he has had over a career.

Is this the reason people criticise AEW? Somewhat, yes. Many others just jump on the bandwagon because it seems cool to do, whilst some genuinely don't like it. I do wonder how many posters are slyly posting here to promote Cornette's podcast.

Who knows if they want to work for AEW, but I wouldn't recommend they're offered to either.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Ger said:


> You know what is really funny? Over the last years I heard so many people speaking on their podcasts (e.g., Two Face wrestling on winc), that Cornette was too much hanging in the past etc. etc., when he just mentioned Bucks (pre AEW) here and there, while talking about other stuff. Meanwhile Cornette speaks about AEW on a regular basis, while all these other guys went offline, who thought they know the business - which they were never in - better.


Yeah it is funny how quickly people who've made a good living get dismissed if they go against popular opinion. Not to say that just because you were in the business fans have to agree with you and like what you like. But when you sort through all the cussing and personal insults a lot of what Cornette says can be taken pretty constructively.

Like maybe the need to point out one of The Bucks is balding is unnecessary, but pointing out that "hey let this amazingly athletic move you did have time to register to people and be sold like the amazing move it was, before you move to the next amazing move" is a very sound piece of advice.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Dickhead1990 said:


> Russo's reputation follows him everywhere and everyone knows that 99% of his ideas are ridiculous.
> 
> Cornette is not only annoying but is blatantly just trying to brew cheap controversy by taking hits at AEW all of the time, which is ironically what people criticise AEW of doing to WWE. The thing to remember here is that Cornette is irrelevant and *is taking shots at someone who has had more success in a year than he has had over a career.*
> 
> ...


This is a pretty ridiculous stance. Money aside Tony has certainly had an amazing first 2 years, but can he sustain it? Having an amazing peak is great, but longevity is king. For instance Ultimate Warriors peak is much higher than Sting's, but would you say he was more successful? Of course not because Sting has made money in the business in 4 different decades.


----------



## Schwartzxz (Jul 9, 2017)

because of Russo and Corny? and it has nothing to do with their average roster and shows? its nice to have an excuse for everything rather than facing the truth. maybe you guys should go back in your AEW bubble and just enjoy everything they do. I dont know or care about Russo but Corny keeps it real. finally JR said something too recently and I know he has plenty more to say but wont as long as he works for them and thats fine.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AEW gets dunked on because it presented itself as the ideal, and people’s ideals way outshine the reality of what it is.

Cornette is a genius. People don’t like the truth so there’s a bunch of ad hominem about him that doesn’t really make any sense. His podcast’s listens is probably going to overtake AEW viewers at some point. Irrelevant my ass.

Russo is overrated. He was lucky to be where he was when he was, and that the WWF was about to hit a surge off Stone Cold Steve Austin. Left to his own devices, he cannot stimulate interest in a brand.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Is that also why short women wrestlers like Banks and Asuka are so unpopular on the net while flair is the most popular thing ever?... Wait


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Russo is a good contributing writer let's give credit there.

Bad without filter


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Russo is a good contributing writer let's give credit there.
> 
> Bad without filter


He prompted some good ideas and fit the tone of the times. That’s as far as I’m willing to go with Russo. I am very stubborn on him, haha.

He has no clue why anything that worked in 1998 or 1999 worked.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

I disagree with the OP for three reasons:

1. While certainly there might be a small segment of AEW haters who are influenced by Cornette and Russo, I seriously doubt there are THAT many lemmings who are unable to think independently and who need to be told what to think.

2. I think there is a larger segment of “fans” who simply like to crap on something once it gets popular. People like to build up stars, and they love to tear them down even more. 

3. A lot of AEW haters are simply envious marks for themselves who think they know more than they really do. They have a hard time dealing with the reality that Tony Khan is presiding over a major wrestling company while they watch the shows from their living room couches.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

JasmineAEW said:


> I disagree with the OP for three reasons:
> 
> 1. While certainly there might be a small segment of AEW haters who are influenced by Cornette and Russo, I seriously doubt there are THAT many lemmings who are unable to think independently and who need to be told what to think.
> 
> ...


You keep doing this. You just can't take into account that people just genuinely do not enjoy a lot of what AEW is doing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah, Occam’s razor would suggest that a lot of people just don’t like the show.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> You keep doing this. You just can't take into account that people just genuinely do not enjoy a lot of what AEW is doing.


Oh, I have no doubt that there are people like that. And a lot of them are exactly the kinds of people I describe.

Here’s a thought: If you genuinely do not enjoy AEW, why do you keep watching it? If I don’t enjoy a particular show, I simply don’t watch it.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

JasmineAEW said:


> Oh, I have no doubt that there are people like that. And a lot of them are exactly the kinds of people I describe.
> 
> Here’s a thought: If you genuinely do not enjoy AEW, why do you keep watching it? If I don’t enjoy a particular show, I simply don’t watch it.


Speaking of spouting unoriginal bullshit.. 

I like a lot of AEW, their roster is filled with a lot of my favourite wrestlers. Why is it that when I post something positive, the super fans seem to forget all about it the next time they want to claim I have an agenda? It's just such a dishonest fanbase that feels the need to be a victim or an underdog so badly they'll create this anti-AEW agenda and run with it, even when given proof against it.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Speaking of spouting unoriginal bullshit..
> 
> I like a lot of AEW, their roster is filled with a lot of my favourite wrestlers. Why is it that when I post something positive, the super fans seem to forget all about it the next time they want to claim I have an agenda? It's just such a dishonest fanbase that feels the need to be a victim or an underdog so badly they'll create this anti-AEW agenda and run with it, even when given proof against it.


My last post wasn’t pointing you out specifically. I have read enough of your posts to know you are not a full-on AEW hater.

Still, my point remains. If you really dislike something, why even watch it? You say this argument is unoriginal, yet no one seems to have an answer for it. Is it a mental defect of some kind?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

JasmineAEW said:


> My last post wasn’t pointing you out specifically. I have read enough of your posts to know you are not a full-on AEW hater.
> 
> Still, my point remains. If you really dislike something, why even watch it? You say this argument is unoriginal, yet no one seems to have an answer for it. Is it a mental defect of some kind?


Who is it aimed at then? Apart from those that were excited for AEW and eventually fell off, who actually hates the show and still watches? Disliking something doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in discussion about it though. I loved the first Wonder Woman but hate the latest one. Should I actively avoid discussing something I love when it wasn't as good as it should be?

People have been answering that question for months now, it's not some new discussion topic you've come up with.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Who is it aimed at then? Apart from those that were excited for AEW and eventually fell off, who actually hates the show and still watches? Disliking something doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in discussion about it though. I loved the first Wonder Woman but hate the latest one. Should I actively avoid discussing something I love when it wasn't as good as it should be?
> 
> People have been answering that question for months now, it's not some new discussion topic you've come up with.


My comment was aimed at the AEW haters who, as I plainly stated, are marks for themselves and think they always know more than the actual people who run AEW.

Watching a singular entity, like a movie, is completely different.

If hated a continuous TV series, say, “The Walking Dead,” I would stop watching it. I wouldn’t keep watching it and then bitch about it on the fan forums. Why watch something you don’t like? It doesn’t make any sense.

Still, haters are free to continue to express themselves here. And I am free to critique them.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

JasmineAEW said:


> My comment was aimed at the AEW haters who, as I plainly stated, are marks for themselves and think they always know more than the actual people who run AEW.
> 
> Watching a singular entity, like a movie, is completely different.
> 
> ...


Names. Proof. Anything please..


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Names. Proof. Anything please..


I think she's aiming some of it at me.

Look, Jasmin, you're a nice girl and I hate to do this but how many years have you spent in the wrestling industry? Have you ever been inside a ring?

Cornette has spent some of his childhood and all of his adult life in the wrestling industry. He knows more than you, he knows what is good and what is bad.

Anyone with a hundred million dollars could do just as good if not better than Tony Khan.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Names. Proof. Anything please..





Chip Chipperson said:


> I think she's aiming some of it at me.
> 
> Look, Jasmin, you're a nice girl and I hate to do this but how many years have you spent in the wrestling industry? Have you ever been inside a ring?
> 
> ...


I have spent zero time in the industry. As I have always and plainly said, I am simply a fan.

Yes, Cornette has spent most of his life in wrestling. But so have guys like Bully Ray, Eric Bischoff, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Lance Storm, Booker T and literally hundreds of other people. Many of these people enjoy AEW.

Are Cornette’s views more relevant than a pro wrestling veteran who likes AEW?

Of course not.

In the end, it’s all opinion, and my opinion is just as valid as yours or Cornette’s or anyone else’s. And vice versa.


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## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

Vince Russo is an ideas (and angles guy if we’re being generous) who needed a filter or someone to question him. The creative structure-such as it was in 1997-1999 hid his weaknesses because ultimately the final word lay with Vince McMahon. Though let’s not get it twisted, the period from Wrestlemania 15-October 1999 when he left was noticeably weaker than 1997- WM15 in my opinion.

Russo is not a Head Writer, and both of his tenures at WCW proved that.
And the less said about his time in TNA the better.

But to address the point the OP made, it’s rather risky to give individuals that much power over the perception of a wrestling company as felt by other people.

It’s possible, that maybe people have come to their own conclusions and there are those with a bigger platform who represent (some) those views.

After much laughter and incredulity, what would the reply be if it was suggested that the love AEW gets is only because of Dave Meltzer? 🤔


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