# AEW put the world on notice and the WWE responded by jobbing out a 6-month title reign and putting over the UFC



## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

:LOL

And apparently the people in the arena were pissed and a huge AEW chant broke out after the lights came on:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180303439324205057


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

If those chants turn into people actually watching AEW then it will be a different story, people chanted ECW for years while only watching WWE.


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## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

I mean... not to be a dick to the fans who were upset... but they went to a _WWe_ show...


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## rexmundi (Apr 1, 2012)

Vince is attuned to the pulsebeat of the fans. :eyeroll


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Please chant AEW at every WWE show. Nothing makes me happier knowing that Vince McMahon is pissed off. I just feel giddy inside knowing that miserable old bastard is seething at the fact that his fans are chanting another wrestling company at his shows. Fuck WWE and fuck Vince.


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## NascarStan (Mar 26, 2019)

reyfan said:


> If those chants turn into people actually watching AEW then it will be a different story, people chanted ECW for years while only watching WWE.


At least 3 million people watched Smackdown tonight if only 1/4th of the casuals simply looked up aew after hearing the chant and decided to check out Dynamite next Wednesday out of curiosity that is a massive win for AEW


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

The only thing WWE is doing right at the moment is signing every half decent wrestler.

If AEW had some of the talents they have and are doing nothing with, god would things really be beautiful for AEW.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Hey look, another WWE thread in the AEW section. But I was told nobody in this section cares about the WWE?


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> I mean... not to be a dick to the fans who were upset... but they went to a _WWe_ show...


Probably assuming something different would happen. And then they got that. 

But they should have known better.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Were they mad at the Cain guy coming out or were they mad about the 5 second title match? I don't even know lol. I'm more mad about Brock being champ again tbh lol.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

The AEW's chants are the new CM Punk seems like lol


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

People chanting AEW at WWE is a win for AEW. People watching at home might not know what AEW is look it up and they might switch over. That's more publicity and more attention for AEW. Angry WWE fans are going see there are other options.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


If they don't job out Kofi in five seconds before that. Well then reaction would be different. Instead once again Vince sacrifices his regulars for headlines. When people see Swagger in AEW they trust to book him like a bad ass not a joke. Which WWE often used him as


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## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

NXT Only said:


> they should have known better.


Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me the eight hundredth word for twice, shame on me.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Mox Girl said:


> Were they mad at the Cain guy coming out or were they mad about the 5 second title match? I don't even know lol. I'm more mad about Brock being champ again tbh lol.


The way Kofi was treated I'm sure. They could have done this angle with Cain/Rey and Brock without him squashing Kofi for the title.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

imthegame19 said:


> If they don't job out Kofi in five seconds before that. Well then reaction would be different. Instead once again Vince sacrifices his regulars for headlines. When people see Swagger in AEW they trust to book him like a bad ass not a joke. Which WWE often used him as


Well they did give him a main event push and a wrestlemania title match but then he got in trouble with the law with drugs and DUI so his push died quickly.
Hopefully for his sake he has cleaned up his act.


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## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Context? Jack Swagger was brought out to push an entire stable vs stable narrative that is going to put over a bunch of talent not known to the mainstream audience, like Sammy, LAX, Page, etc. Swagger also cut his teeth in this business for a decade, is an amazing technical wrestler, and was wildly misused by the WWE, which is automatically going to get him sympathy of smarks that want to see wrestlers be used to their full potential.

Cain Velasquez comes out after Brock Lesnar fucking bodies Kofi Kingston with one F5 for them to erase a guy's 6-month title reign only to waste the title in a UFC vs UFC feud that literally didn't even need a title to be important or relevant in the first place.

I'm not even a fan of Kofi in any way but it's hilarious how unimportant they made him and every person he beat over the last 6 months look just to put over an MMA feud.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

TwistedLogic said:


> Context? Jack Swagger was brought out to push an entire stable vs stable narrative that is going to put over a bunch of talent not known to the mainstream audience, like Sammy, LAX, Page, etc. Swagger also cut his teeth in this business for a decade, is an amazing technical wrestler, and was wildly misused by the WWE, which is automatically going to get him sympathy of smarks that want to see wrestlers be used to their full potential.
> 
> Cain Velasquez comes out after Brock Lesnar fucking bodies Kofi Kingston with one F5 for them to erase a guy's 6-month title reign only to waste the title in a UFC vs UFC feud that literally didn't even need a title to be important or relevant in the first place.
> 
> I'm not even a fan of Kofi in any way but it's hilarious how unimportant they made him and every person he beat over the last 6 months look just to put over an MMA feud.


If you were talking about other talent WWE wasted like Sandow for example I could understand, they gave Swagger multiple tries as a top guy but the final straw as stated earlier was DUI and drug charges, again hopefully he has straightened himself up otherwise it will look bad for AEW if they start collecting ex-WWEs with personal issues the same way TNA did.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

reyfan said:


> Well they did give him a main event push and a wrestlemania title match but then he got in trouble with the law with drugs and DUI so his push died quickly.
> Hopefully for his sake he has cleaned up his act.


Swagger DUI was six years ago now and he's far from first wrestler or athlete to get one. While drugs he had was weed. Which is legal in many states now anyways. Its not like he was caught with serious drugs. Even when Swagger got his pushes it was more like Dolph Ziggler push. The guy would lose non title singles matches clean still and stuff like that. You can't make a guy into anything like that. Booking like that and what they did tonight is why the company is causing AEW to grow.


Kofi getting squashed tonight is everything that's wrong with WWE. You had Kofi going on this run where he beat Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Kevin Owens, Samoa Joe, Randy Orton and others. Then you bury him like this and kill his push. It's one thing to have Kofi lose competitive match to Brock. But lose like this is just uncalled for. 


If WWE didn't do stupid booking like this AEW might not have ever created. Even if it was, it wouldn't have grow to what it is this quick. AEW is far from perfect but fans want to believe in the company so bad. Because WWE does stuff like we saw tonight. All AEW has to do is put on good matches and push the wrestlers fans like. WWE booking will push fans to AEW and help them grow bigger. If they keep shooting themselves in the foot.


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## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

reyfan said:


> If you were talking about other talent WWE wasted like Sandow for example I could understand, they gave Swagger multiple tries as a top guy but the final straw as stated earlier was DUI and drug charges, again hopefully he has straightened himself up otherwise it will look bad for AEW if they start collecting ex-WWEs with personal issues the same way TNA did.


I agree on Sandow but with Swagger I mean having him cut scripted promos and have terrible, inconsistent booking.

You can't just say someone got titles and main events and that means they weren't misused. Tonight is the perfect example of it. Look at what they just did to Kofi.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

TwistedLogic said:


> I agree on Sandow but with Swagger I mean having him cut scripted promos and things like that. WWE scripted every single person's promos over that entire time period except maybe one or two people. Someone like Swagger, who is already limited on the mic, can NOT put over shitty scripted promos.
> 
> You can't just say someone got titles and main events and that means they weren't misused. Tonight is the perfect example of it. Look at what they just did to Kofi.


Well now he has the chance to prove himself, I hope for his sake and AEW's he succeeds.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

LMAO WWE is going to continue insulting their audience at a time that AEW is building momentum and just smacked NXT on Wednesday in the ratings.

I guess :mj4


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## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

reyfan said:


> If those chants turn into people actually watching AEW then it will be a different story, people chanted ECW for years while only watching WWE.


And getting back to this, I don't even care if people chanting it don't switch over (and I bet some will). I'm petty enough in my distaste for the WWE that just knowing how much those chants are gonna piss them off makes them worth it.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


I said it before its because of branding. Your branding is everything. WWE branding is boring pretty and far from wrestling. They have lost their fire but maybe one day will get it back. To me i saw this start since 2005 and it got worst and worst year after year. I stoppped watching many years ago,I try to give a look once in a while to see but it gets worst and i refuse to watch a shit product with bad branding.

Your imagine is everything and they turned to baby gap but all those kids are grown up.This happened to wwe in the late 80s early 90s and at some point they had to rebrand.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

reyfan said:


> If you were talking about other talent WWE wasted like Sandow for example I could understand, they gave Swagger multiple tries as a top guy but the final straw as stated earlier was DUI and drug charges, again hopefully he has straightened himself up otherwise it will look bad for AEW if they start collecting ex-WWEs with personal issues the same way TNA did.


1. What are you talking about?

2. At this rate most guys will be ex-WWE guys since they’re just throwing money at everyone.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Damn, you look upset. It's okay though.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NXT Only said:


> 1. What are you talking about?
> 
> 2. At this rate most guys will be ex-WWE guys since they’re just throwing money at everyone.


Jericho,Cody,Moxley,Dustin, Spears, and now Hager are ex WWE guys. Most of the roster is non WWE guys. Right now AEW roster is pretty full. They won't be signing many more. Especially with as we saw on tv this week. They are gonna have time getting guys on t.v. on consistent basis as is. Plus With Johnny Morrison/Impact appearing going back to WWE. AEW pretty much signed all of the best of remaining available free agent talent or ex WWE guys. Yes at some point some guys will leave WWE and AEW will sign them. But at some point guys will leave AEW for WWE too.


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## the44boz (Apr 29, 2014)

I didn't know the worlds population is 1.4 million people.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Perception is everything. Cain comes out to crickets, without a shirt and his man boobs and does a stare down. Hager comes in cut and lean and kills the roster in the ring.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

imthegame19 said:


> Jericho,Cody,Moxley,Dustin, Spears, and now Hager are ex WWE guys. Most of the roster is non WWE guys. Right now AEW roster is pretty full. They won't be signing many more. Especially with as we saw on tv this week. They are gonna have time getting guys on t.v. on consistent basis as is. Plus With Johnny Morrison/Impact appearing going back to WWE. AEW pretty much signed all of the best of remaining available free agent talent or ex WWE guys. Yes at some point some guys will leave WWE and AEW will sign them. But at some point guys will leave AEW for WWE too.


Most are literally 4 guys according to you huh?.

And another one makes the list.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

People can shit on Swagger all they want but he was super over in WWE when he was paired with Colter. Swagger can be a star for AEW if booked right and Tony and co know what they are doing.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

V-Trigger said:


> Most are literally 4 guys according to you huh?.
> 
> And another one makes the list.


Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. This week Kip Sabian, Joey Janela, Shawn Spears, Jungle Boy/Luchasurous/Stunt, Best Friends, Dark Order, Sonny Kiss, Orange Cassiddy, Peter Avalon and even Cima/Allin only got a dark match. These guys all never got to be on tv. Not to mention only 3 woman made it on tv or 4 if you count Brandi. 



As for the roster WWE had monopoly on wrestling business for years and it only got stronger when TNA/Impact stopped being able to pay wrestlers real money and lost ton of talent the past 2-4 years. 


If you have a start up company with only like 6 ex WWE guys. With another 30 plus non WWE guys that's pretty good ratio of building up your own talent.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> I mean... not to be a dick to the fans who were upset... but they went to a _WWe_ show...


It's not like they could go to an AEW show on a Friday night :shrug


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

birthday_massacre said:


> People can shit on Swagger all they want but he was super over in WWE when he was paired with Colter. Swagger can be a star for AEW if booked right and Tony and co know what they are doing.


Yep it's typical fan response who don't have open mind. They remember Swagger in WWE and think he's gonna be exactly same in AEW. Yes that might have been the case in TNA 10 years ago. But AEW has already shown they can change guys gimmick or repackage guys and make them a assst. Just like we saw with Spears and Dustin Rhodes. Hager still has more potential then both of those guys.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> Yep it's typical fan response who don't have open mind. They remember Swagger in WWE and think he's gonna be exactly same in AEW. Yes that might have been the case in TNA 10 years ago. But AEW has already shown they can change guys gimmick or repackage guys and make them a assst. Just like we saw with Spears and Dustin Rhodes. Hager still has more potential then both of those guys.


Exactly, just make Hager the diesel to Jericho. 

Jericho can do all the talking and Hager can just beat people up.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

birthday_massacre said:


> Exactly, just make Hager the diesel to Jericho.
> 
> Jericho can do all the talking and Hager can just beat people up.



And Hager not even that terrible on the mic. As long as you keep his promos short and unscripted he will be fine. He sounded fine doing promos in MMA when it was natural.


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## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Being legit or not legit in a world of pro wrestling doesn't matter. Wrestling fans aren't always accepting of MMA folks, even less so if they don't have personality or character.

I know who Cain is and what he can do in MMA, is he the most engaging character for the world of pro wrestling...probably not. Great fighter, but this isn't fighting.


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## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Difference between the two companies

One is run by a Old man who's best days are behind him. He's got his fingers in different pies, he has to answer to shareholders and his company is way out ahead of any other wrestling company. As long as the money keeps on coming in that's all he cares about. Putting on great shows isn't his main aim anymore.He answers to no one but himself. He probably think's RAW and Smackdown are fantastic right now.

Then in the other company you have a lifelong wrestling loving rich owner, with hungry wrestling talent wanting to offer something different to what WWE are offering. They listen to the fans and give new up and coming talent a chance, and it's not about how they look or if they can cut 10 minute promos. Plus they are wanting to Entertain the fans. Also throw in they aren't answering to Shareholders and having to please sponsorships.They are an old school WWE in a way.


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## ♥ambrollinsreigns♥ (Jul 24, 2016)

TwistedLogic said:


> :LOL
> 
> And apparently the people in the arena were pissed and a huge AEW chant broke out after the lights came on:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180303439324205057


Not surprised at all! As much as I love wwe because My number 1 favorite wrestler of all time is there, Daniel Bryan and there are some others who are good enough to keep me watching, AEW needed barely anything to be amazing. I mean barely anything at all. Jericho alone was enough to keep me glued to the screen for the entire time! The show was red hot. Even so I hope AEW doesn't need to reply on Jericho having that much screen time and making promos like that week in and week out. It might just become the Jericho show and everyone else is good but they should work on more of them being at Jericho's level.


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## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

Ace said:


> The only thing WWE is doing right at the moment is signing every half decent wrestler.
> 
> If AEW had some of the talents they have and are doing nothing with, god would things really be beautiful for AEW.


One of AEW´s biggest (potential) drawing cards is that they have a lot of new, unproven and unknown talent. People always act like that´s a bad thing. It´s a good thing. 

Why would I want to watch Anderson&Gallows over Private Party or Jurassic Express? Having hungry and unexposed talent is a strength as long as you portray them right. If Cody had squashed Guevara in three minutes, he´d be nothing. Now he´s the guy that lost the match, won the war and is attached to world champion Chris Jericho by the hip.


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## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Cain is a nobody to wresting fans. They did kofi dirty just for a espn highlight moment that nobody will care about.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

ugh.... wwe 

how can I escape thee?


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## Tk Adeyemi (Feb 14, 2019)

Aew fans are so insecure, if u don’t like wwe don’t watch it. Also that person is given out bs reports, there were no Aew chants. That’s some bs.


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## Bosnian21 (May 27, 2019)

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Aew fans are so insecure, if u don’t like wwe don’t watch it. Also that person is given out bs reports, there were no Aew chants. That’s some bs.


Nah Meltzer confirmed there were AEW chants. 

Which makes your post kind of ironic if you think about it.


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## BC4LIFE (Jan 16, 2018)

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Aew fans are so insecure, if u don’t like wwe don’t watch it. Also that person is given out bs reports, there were no Aew chants. That’s some bs.


So insecure like you comming to the AEW section to defend WWE?


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## Raye (Jul 23, 2018)

So many WWE fans baffle me. I had this one guy on instagram tell me that AEW's rating doesn't count because they aired their show back to back LMFAOOOO dude doesn't understand how ratings work. At first it was how AEW won't beat NXT in a ratings war and how the NXT card is so stacked, now they're pretending like the NXT card was a normal card and not stacked like a TakeOver card LMFAO, so funny.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Don't job out a 6 month champion in seconds :draper2. 

Don't put the title on someone whose reigns for the last few years have been shit. 

Don't make the whole roster look like shit but having your champion who has been dominant lose in seconds. Wwe deserved to be shat on last night for that.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Aew fans are so insecure, if u don’t like wwe don’t watch it. Also that person is given out bs reports, there were no Aew chants. That’s some bs.


We ain’t watching it lol. However making observations is another thing. 

Bringing in Cain isn’t the issue. I would have liked AEW to do so. 

However squashing your champ who was on a good streak for Lesnar...again and then bringing in Cain screams desperation. 

They could have done it without jobbing out your champion.


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## Ledg (Aug 3, 2013)

They were upset because they thought the show hasn’t finished and were waiting for Taker and Austin to show up (they were advertised) but they didn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

I love how wrestling fans are never happy about anything. Both Smackdown and Dynamite were fantastic shows. Smackdown was slightly better. RAW was garbage and NXT was mediocre but not bad. My boy Lesnar winning in under 10 seconds was great as was the debut of Cain Velasquez. :mark


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

ZSJ said:


> I love how wrestling fans are never happy about anything. Both Smackdown and Dynamite were fantastic shows. Smackdown was slightly better. RAW was garbage and NXT was mediocre but not bad. My boy Lesnar winning in under 10 seconds was great as was the debut of Cain Velasquez. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GkHkVKq.gif?1" border="0" alt="" title="marking out" class="inlineimg" />


Why would I be happy about one of the main people who made me hate modern main roster beating someone whose reign I enjoyed in seconds? I ain't watching smackdown but upon hearing that, fuck watching that shite.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

And AEW finished their inaugural show with a failed WWE guy who beats fat dudes in Bellator over as one of their biggest stars.


Not that I care. I liked both shows and both endings. But ya know, glass houses eh.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I have no opinion about this except.... does WWE actually want their fans to go to youtube and check out UFC?

Because, if so - that is half their problem

I only hope they do the same dumb shit somehow to drive people to check out AEW


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

I wouldn't say that WWE dropped the ball with SmackDown, it was a really good show from top to bottom. I didn't find myself getting bored throughout it. Velasquez vs Lesnar will do wonders for viewership from casuals and will likely be a big money match down the line. While many may not be happy with Lesnar squashing Kingston, Lesnar as the WWE Champion leading Fox is the right move business wise. I do think it's wrong to advertise The Undertaker and Stone Cold to have neither show up, that was low on WWE's part. Overall an 8 to 9/10 show for me.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TwistedLogic said:


> Context? Jack Swagger was brought out to push an entire stable vs stable narrative that is going to put over a bunch of talent not known to the mainstream audience, like Sammy, LAX, Page, etc. Swagger also cut his teeth in this business for a decade, is an amazing technical wrestler, and was wildly misused by the WWE, which is automatically going to get him sympathy of smarks that want to see wrestlers be used to their full potential.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the same Kofi that places like this were starting the classic "oh why did they push this guy". When it was rumored Cain might go to AEW it was mostly "lulz Vince is going to be pissed AEW has the guy that beat the shit out of Lesnar". 

The story is simple Lesnar is so bad ass he can beat a champion that's had a more than solid reign in an instance. Yet Cain is so bad ass he puts fear in Lesnar's heart. If this had happened at Dynamite it would mostly be "AEW has the stars suck it Vince". 

That said Cain's body still makes this a risky move.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

RapShepard said:


> TwistedLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Context? Jack Swagger was brought out to push an entire stable vs stable narrative that is going to put over a bunch of talent not known to the mainstream audience, like Sammy, LAX, Page, etc. Swagger also cut his teeth in this business for a decade, is an amazing technical wrestler, and was wildly misused by the WWE, which is automatically going to get him sympathy of smarks that want to see wrestlers be used to their full potential.
> ...


Tbf wwe made me not care about cain debuting with the way they ended Kofi's reign. Otherwise I would have been hyped


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## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

Yeah, when I heard Cain was wrestling now and AEW had interest in signing him, I thought it was a cool idea. But I hadn't seen him work. Experiencing his disgusting body today and seeing how badly he lacks charisma, I'm really glad he went to the WWE. It was also probably better for him because he's going to get way more of a push there.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

I turned off SD after Rock's tired segment.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Death Rider said:


> Tbf wwe made me not care about cain debuting with the way they ended Kofi's reign. Otherwise I would have been hyped


I get that as I know you've been one of the ones super into his run. But Kofi was starting to get push back these type of places. So seeing "well they shouldn't have squashed Kofi" makes some of it come off as deflection because some AEW fans are salty they got Cain. A lot of folk AEW fans were hoping were coming over, haven't.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I wanted Cain in AEW largely to troll Vince and his hard-on for Lesnar. Cain took the money to job to Lesnar in fake fighting. Cain is 10x the MMA fighter Swagger is, but Swagger is 10x the pro-wrestler Cain is. Swagger will put on much, much better matches. Both are charisma vacuums, and as bad as Swagger is in that regard, Cain is levels worse. Cain might be the most boring MMA fighter ever personality wise. Vince and Fox got their "sportscenter" moment out of it though. I bet Cain and Brock team up under Heyman in less than a year.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TwistedLogic said:


> Yeah, when I heard Cain was wrestling now and AEW had interest in signing him, I thought it was a cool idea. But I hadn't seen him work. *Experiencing his disgusting body* today and seeing how badly he lacks charisma, I'm really glad he went to the WWE. It was also probably better for him because he's going to get way more of a push there.


Have you seen AEWs champions body lol 

But you are right on Cain not being charismatic. Cain certainly would've got a big push in AEW. You don't pay somebody big money with his name to not use him in a big way.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

RapShepard said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Tbf wwe made me not care about cain debuting with the way they ended Kofi's reign. Otherwise I would have been hyped
> ...


Maybe but the thing is people also don't want the whole roster looking like crap. Plus it resembles the same old brock crap. I wanted cain in aew so I am disappointed he went wwe. But wwe also killed any chance of me keeping up with last night after kofi got buried. Shame as wwe had gotten better recently and Tyson fury is fun.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

RapShepard said:


> This is the same Kofi that places like this were starting the classic "oh why did they push this guy". When it was rumored Cain might go to AEW it was mostly "lulz Vince is going to be pissed AEW has the guy that beat the shit out of Lesnar".
> 
> The story is simple Lesnar is so bad ass he can beat a champion that's had a more than solid reign in an instance. Yet Cain is so bad ass he puts fear in Lesnar's heart. If this had happened at Dynamite it would mostly be "AEW has the stars suck it Vince".
> 
> That said Cain's body still makes this a risky move.


No the problem is they made their championship look like shit because they just squashed the champ. Regardless of what you think of Kofi, it makes him look like shit despite the 6 month reign and everyone he beat in that 6 months as well. Everyone already knows Lesner is a bad ass. He was Uni Champ for forever and ran through the locker room already. This storyline could have happened without the belt. 

Kofi's reign was done and should have already ended but giving it back to Lesner is like wtf.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


The fans don't laugh but 90% of them don't know who cain is.

When you don't know who Cain is and you see him last night, you don't have a good first impression.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

The WWE made some very good moves on that SD tbf. Not gonna be hyper critical of that show at all. I marked out for Fury and Cain and was happy Kofi lost.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> No the problem is they made their championship look like shit because they just squashed the champ. Regardless of what you think of Kofi, it makes him look like shit despite the 6 month reign and everyone he beat in that 6 months as well. Everyone already knows Lesner is a bad ass. He was Uni Champ for forever and ran through the locker room already. This storyline could have happened without the belt.
> 
> 
> 
> Kofi's reign was done and should have already ended but giving it back to Lesner is like wtf.


I won't disagree that Lesnar with the belt isn't exciting. But this Kofi loss too quick, I say so what. If wrestling is supposed to be a competition, then logically some competitions can and should (rarely) end stupid quick. You can also look at it as he got caught, by trying to start off hot. 

Kofi is also saved by the fact WWE has spent so much time making Lesnar so far ahead of everybody not named Rollins that quick or not the loss isn't surprising. I mean when everybody eats the pin for Lesnar, Kofi having the quickest loss shouldn't be that big of an issue. It's not like he got squashed by Corbin. He got squashed by the guy who made Hogan bleed from the mouth and broke the streak. He's just another on the highlight reel.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

RapShepard said:


> I won't disagree that Lesnar with the belt isn't exciting. But this Kofi loss too quick, I say so what. If wrestling is supposed to be a competition, then logically some competitions can and should (rarely) end stupid quick. You can also look at it as he got caught, by trying to start off hot.
> 
> Kofi is also saved by the fact WWE has spent so much time making Lesnar so far ahead of everybody not named Rollins that quick or not the loss isn't surprising. I mean when everybody eats the pin for Lesnar, Kofi having the quickest loss shouldn't be that big of an issue. It's not like he got squashed by Corbin. He got squashed by the guy who made Hogan bleed from the mouth and broke the streak. He's just another on the highlight reel.


Still sucks but I see what you are saying.


----------



## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Why is this in the AEW section? This exact thread is in the Smackdown section without mentioning AEW in the OP.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Darkest Lariat said:


> Why is this in the AEW section? This exact thread is in the Smackdown section without mentioning AEW in the OP.


This - I’m trying to see as little as possible about WWE


----------



## Foreign Object (Mar 18, 2017)

rbl85 said:


> reyfan said:
> 
> 
> > AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.
> ...


This is very true. A few friends I watched it with were like, ‘Who the fuck is that guy?’ and assumed at first he was another Mysterio family member. The fact that he limped to the ring didn’t really help matters, either. He might be a bad-ass in the octagon but he wasn’t really presented as a world class bad-ass last night. Brock sold it well, but so far Cain Velasquez hasn’t really captured my imagination or interest.


----------



## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Jack Swagger looked like a heel bad ass in his AWE debut and the guy has always been a great athlete, nevermind the wwe burying him. If only AWE could get Cezaro....


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> It's not like they could go to an AEW show on a Friday night :shrug


No I don’t mean they chose WWe over AEW.

I mean they went to a WWe period

If you go White Castle you’d best go knowing you’re going to be spending some time on the toilet the next day.

If you go to a WWe show you’d best go knowing you’re going to see a shit show of some kind.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Lol the next six months are gonna be great


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

fulcizombie said:


> Jack Swagger looked like a heel bad ass in his AWE debut and the guy has always been a great athlete, nevermind the wwe burying him. If only AWE could get Cezaro....


Jake Hager looked like Jack Swaggers angry, racist dad in that polo shirt.


----------



## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

Cult03 said:


> Jake Hager looked like Jack Swaggers angry, racist dad in that polo shirt.


Yep and that’s great in my book. The fantasy wrestling world needs true heels not wimps like the wwe heels are. The ending of dynamite with all the heels triumphant and Jericho acting particularly clever with his mannerisms was so great.....


----------



## 260825 (Sep 7, 2013)

*AEW is on the upswing.

After last night's "NEW & FRESH" Smackdown, it's still as terrible as ever.*


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

People are gonna have to get use to seeing this both ways, this is what happens with real competition. 

But I completely agree, WWE solidified the fact that their not willing to change with last night's show.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

You have two competing companies. One is having a problem with chants for the other company breaking out at their shows.

The other company has no such problem. The fans at their shows are eating it up and having a great time.

WWE is in fucking trouble simply from a psychology standpoint. There's no other way to look at it.


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

AEW's 18-49 year old viewers alone matched NXT's total, suggesting that even NXT of all shows, has an age problem.

What does WWE do in response? Go back to the well with stars from the past and Lesnar, who is champion AGAIN, then bring out a washed up MMA fighter who's peak period was years ago, to the extent that some of today's teenagers might not know who he is.

Hopeless.

But it doesn't matter for me. I haven't watched any WWE programming in months and Wednesday looks like it could fast become my favorite day of the week.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

I get the Hager hate, but you're bashing the guy because of what he did in WWE. The guy has a great history of wrestling skills and accomplishments, from school to professional. I always liked his style and work, but he really didn't fit the WWE "mold" of a "superstar". I had hoped he would have gone to ROH many years ago because he seemed like a better fit there and would have done well.

I did watch his first Bellator fight, only out of curiosity and he looked like a true bad-ass. He was in amazing shape and did pretty good. I didn't see his second fight.

He's a good pick-up for AEW because they will let him do what he can do and that is spelled... W-R-E-S-T-L-E.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I wanted Cain in AEW largely to troll Vince and his hard-on for Lesnar. Cain took the money to job to Lesnar in fake fighting. Cain is 10x the MMA fighter Swagger is, but Swagger is 10x the pro-wrestler Cain is. Swagger will put on much, much better matches. Both are charisma vacuums, and as bad as Swagger is in that regard, Cain is levels worse. Cain might be the most boring MMA fighter ever personality wise. Vince and Fox got their "sportscenter" moment out of it though. I bet Cain and Brock team up under Heyman in less than a year.


He may not look like it due to his body but Cain Velasquez is a hell of an athlete and I wouldn't be surprised if he picks up the in-ring aspect extremely quickly.

Cain isn't much of a talker but he is bilingual. That being said, I wonder if this is more about Brock getting his win back than anything.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Imagine paying to go to this show and see a main event, lmao. The rewatch of that dumpster fire match gets funnier every time.

Brock must be getting paid by the move.


----------



## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

reyfan said:


> If those chants turn into people actually watching AEW then it will be a different story, people chanted ECW for years while only watching WWE.


They were actually watching WCW first as Bischoff was signing all of their stars (Benoit, Eddie, Jericho....)...until Vince went into business with them (and supposedly was paying their bills) and started allowing them on their TV with a supposed, (and FAILED) light invasion meant to counter the nWo.


----------



## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

Foreign Object said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> > reyfan said:
> ...


I (and others as I have seen on Facebook posts) thought it was Rey's son Dominick from a distance until they shot a close up and Cole and Graves started screaming about him being the guy to beat Brock. I an not a UFC watcher so I did not know who he was...I had only heard the name, but before last night couldn't tell you what he looked like.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

fulcizombie said:


> Jack Swagger looked like a heel bad ass in his AWE debut and the guy has always been a great athlete, nevermind the wwe burying him. If only AWE could get Cezaro....


Also they mentioned that Jack is an MMA fighter and is undefeated


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

the44boz said:


> I didn't know the worlds population is 1.4 million people.


Only the part that matters. :lol


----------



## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


People are tried of seeing "Legit fighters" being pushed over their favorite stars. After years of having Brock Lesnar shoves down their throats as the only person who could ever possiby draw even at little bit, fans don't really give a flying fuck about the the UFC or anyone there especially, when they have no pro wrestling experience and are being pushed over top stars the moment they debut. 

This is just another case of WWE pushing an untrained MMA fighter over their own stars, which is exactly what fans have been against. And it's for a match with Brock Lesnar, who is a part timer, and doesn't give a fuck about the WWE or the fans. Why should fans be excited about that?

I mean, look at what happened with Ronda Rousey. She could barely work spots when she first debuted, and waaing pushed as the single greatest women's wrestler in WWE history. And it took a good while for her to get to the point where she could work a full match without being carried through the spots. 

Pro Wrestling is NOT MMA. Being an MMA fighter does not make someone a good pro wrestler. So saying fans should be excited about a guy who is no experience in pro wrestling being given a major spot on the card over established stars is idiotic.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Garty said:


> I get the Hager hate, but you're bashing the guy because of what he did in WWE. The guy has a great history of wrestling skills and accomplishments, from school to professional. I always liked his style and work, but he really didn't fit the WWE "mold" of a "superstar". I had hoped he would have gone to ROH many years ago because he seemed like a better fit there and would have done well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its not really bashing him as much as calling out the phoniness (not you per se just saying in general). The stuff just happened with Spears, who nobody gives 2 shits about anymore.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Well the latter had manboobs and looked like he hasn't touched a weight in 5 years. That supposedly scared the most dominant competitor in WWE. Jake Hager kicked ass and left. Story and context matters.


----------



## Miguel De Juan (Feb 25, 2011)

Cain was entertaining in AAA the two times he wrestled. Stop hating on him because Vince is retarded. lol


----------



## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


They have all the resources in the world, but WWE can't present them for shit. They could be handed Muhammad Ali in his prime and still do the incredible and make him look like a complete joke without any charisma


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

The absolute state of the E hahahahahahahaha


----------



## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> Have you seen AEWs champions body lol
> 
> But you are right on Cain not being charismatic. Cain certainly would've got a big push in AEW. You don't pay somebody big money with his name to not use him in a big way.


Yes and it disgusts me just much as Cain's does. But Jericho is one of the most charismatic human beings to ever step inside a ring so he makes it easy to forget.


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

The way WWE have handled themselves recently, it's as if they want to lose viewers and have them turn to AEW.

WWE keep on making moves that reek of desperation.

Now they prioritise two UFC guys over their whole roster, so many guys deserve so much better, now the roster has to sit back and watch a WWE Championship feud between two UFC guys.

AEW was far from perfect on Wednesday but at least I'm excited to tune in next week, Smackdown offered nothing new and have now ruined their main event scene again.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

A-E-W chants on their big FOX debut.

:ha


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TwistedLogic said:


> Yes and it disgusts me just much as Cain's does. But Jericho is one of the most charismatic human beings to ever step inside a ring so he makes it easy to forget.


Yeah Jericho is one of those guys that just has "IT" and gets "IT". Even being over his generation of stars, I could never pretend the man isn't great at what he does.


----------



## Asuka842 (Jul 19, 2016)

Wow, all those months of making Kofi look actually pretty damn strong, only to have him get squashed in five seconds, that was fucking stupid, what a waste. All so that WWE can bury it's wrestlers to prop up MMA yet again.

And worse yet, this burked everyone that Kofi has beaten for the last six months by extension as well, truly godawful booking.


----------



## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

Cult03 said:


> Hey look, another WWE thread in the AEW section. But I was told nobody in this section cares about the WWE?


Hey look, another angry WWE mark who doesn't like the two brands being compared because he knows which is doing everything right right now and which one is still as embarrassing as ever.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> No I don’t mean they chose WWe over AEW.
> 
> I mean they went to a WWe period
> 
> ...


I don't know what White Castle is, so I'm gonna just say okay and move on :duck


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> If they don't job out Kofi in five seconds before that. Well then reaction would be different. Instead once again Vince sacrifices his regulars for headlines. When people see Swagger in AEW they trust to book him like a bad ass not a joke. Which WWE often used him as


Minor point, but didn’t AEW sacrifice a regular when Arn came down and slammed Spears?

I mean, seriously, if the exact same thing with the exact same two guys happened in WWE do you think the reaction would have been the same? I really don’t.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

Lorromire said:


> I don't know what White Castle is, so I'm gonna just say okay and move on :duck


It's a fast food place in the states that is very pleasant on the taste buds and very destructive on the colon.

:lmao


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Saintpat said:


> Minor point, but didn’t AEW sacrifice a regular when Arn came down and slammed Spears?
> 
> I mean, seriously, if the exact same thing with the exact same two guys happened in WWE do you think the reaction would have been the same? I really don’t.


Not at all, one slam isn't sacrificing anything. If Arn actually beat Spears in a match that would be different story. Arn getting one move on Spears is more equal to Rock hitting Rock Bottom on Corbin last night. Nobody complained about that. What they did to Kofi getting squashed after the run he was having. That has to be all time awful booking and I'm not even a big Kofi fan.


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

Tilon said:


> The absolute state of the E hahahahahahahaha


No need to cut down the match for a gif either, it is ready made. Thanks WWE. :eva2


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Saintpat said:


> Minor point, but didn’t AEW sacrifice a regular when Arn came down and slammed Spears?
> 
> I mean, seriously, if the exact same thing with the exact same two guys happened in WWE do you think the reaction would have been the same? I really don’t.


Arn didn't beat Spears. The match continued for a bit after that and was Cody the one pinning him.


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

3.9m viewers suggests it was a massive success no matter what narratives this section tries to push. 
They even got young viewers to watch, a market we were told AEW has now cornered....

Managing the drop off will be key over the next few months. Same for AEW, personally wrestling feels exciting again and i loved last night! Tyson Fury is legit.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> Not at all, one slam isn't sacrificing anything. If Arn actually beat Spears in a match that would be different story. Arn getting one move on Spears is more equal to Rock hitting Rock Bottom on Corbin last night. Nobody complained about that. What they did to Kofi getting squashed after the run he was having. That has to be all time awful booking and I'm not even a big Kofi fan.


We must read different twitter feeds and forums. Every time a ‘legend’ hits a move on a current roster member in WWE just search the word ‘buried’ sometime.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> Its not really bashing him as much as calling out the phoniness (not you per se just saying in general). The stuff just happened with Spears, who nobody gives 2 shits about anymore.


No offense taken and I agree, Shawn Spears is about as "vanilla" as a wrestler can be. He's a good worker, but not a good wrestler. There's just no spark there.

And that opinion my friends... is a 10!


----------



## Toughest SOB (Oct 3, 2019)

“AEW put the world on notice”

With Jack Swagger and Goldust in its main event and 48 year old overweight Chris Jericho as its champion. With Jim Ross and Tony Schivonne calling the action. 

“Come see how this exciting angle concludes for $50 on pay per view! Sponsored by 1-800-COLLECT!”

What year is this? What planet is this?


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

I see a lot of WWE fanboys defending that shit, even the cuck story lines, Vince you gives them what they want so good for them.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

sodiqlawal said:


> 3.9m viewers suggests it was a massive success no matter what narratives this section tries to push.
> They even got young viewers to watch, a market we were told AEW has now cornered....
> 
> Managing the drop off will be key over the next few months. Same for AEW, personally wrestling feels exciting again and i loved last night! Tyson Fury is legit.


Prime time on a national network, everyone knew they’d do good numbers. Especially with the promotion and Rock being back. 

AEW is on a different night, fans will watch both since they don’t have to choose if they don’t want to. 

The issue is they continue to do the same things that hurt them critically in hopes that the mainstream appeal with counter it. 

WWE is seemingly about making money first and putting on quality weekly shows is far down the list or at least thats how some see it. 

Why job out your champ?

Literally do everything you did but then Mysterios music hits before the pinfall and then work the angle and you do so without even further diminishing the prestige of your title and get the Brock/Cain angle you covet.


----------



## Toughest SOB (Oct 3, 2019)

Brodus Clay said:


> I see a lot of WWE fanboys defending that shit, even the cuck story lines, Vince you gives them what they want so good for them.


Smackdown wasn’t great. It was ok. WWE has been mediocre to awful for at least a couple of years now, but you AEW marks who put that shit show over on Wednesday are hilarious.

AEW could literally put on a 2 hour pole smoking contest and you marks would put it over.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Toughest SOB said:


> Smackdown wasn’t great. It was ok. WWE has been mediocre to awful for at least a *couple of years *now, but you AEW marks who put that shit show over on Wednesday are hilarious.
> 
> AEW could literally put on a 2 hour pole smoking contest and you marks would put it over.



Nah more like a decade.


----------



## ashley678 (Dec 7, 2007)

Like wwe cares those people paid to go to show and probs will be there next week or next time they are in town too lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


LMAO bruh

I think we watched 2 different shows. Tyson segment was absolute trash. If he came in and threw some punches then we talking. 
Cain segment all I could think was “yo did Rey Mysterios son go bald??” 

You know how fucking tame that looked. Go back to this and compare what they did with Tyson Fury


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Saintpat said:


> We must read different twitter feeds and forums. Every time a ‘legend’ hits a move on a current roster member in WWE just search the word ‘buried’ sometime.


Thats social media nonsense over reaction. With people to complain just to complain and then they forget about it two days later. What was done to Kofi was legit terrible. 



He goes on this run of beating Daniel Bryan, Kevin Owens, Dolph Ziggler, Samoa Joe, Randy Orton just to name a few. Then you squash him in 9 seconds to Brock. Remember when fans were upset that Brock buried Dean Ambrose at Mania. Even though the match went like 15 minutes. 


Well what they did was just ridicoulous. I know they wanted Brock to hold title on Fox. Which is fine, but how about Kofi isn't buried in the process? Give them 15 minute match with Kofi nearly winning. But they didn't want to do that. Because Lesnar just lost Rollins twice at Mania/Summerslam. So they wanted him to squash someone to make people forget about him losing to Rollins. So Kofi and now everyone he beat doesn't look on Brock level. You wonder why WWE can't create new stars, well this is why.


WWE continues to shoot themselves in the foot. At some point the well of former stars or attractions are gonna dry up for WWE. If WWE continues this stuff AEW gonna catch up to WWE a lot sooner then people think.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

TwistedLogic said:


> Hey look, another angry WWE mark who doesn't like the two brands being compared because he knows which is doing everything right right now and which one is still as embarrassing as ever.


Except I really enjoy both shows. I'm just honest about how they stack up against each other.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

imthegame19 said:


> Not at all, one slam isn't sacrificing anything. If Arn actually beat Spears in a match that would be different story. Arn getting one move on Spears is more equal to Rock hitting Rock Bottom on Corbin last night. Nobody complained about that. What they did to Kofi getting squashed after the run he was having. That has to be all time awful booking and I'm not even a big Kofi fan.


To be fair, the Brock/Kofi match was also only one slam.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Cult03 said:


> To be fair, the Brock/Kofi match was also only one slam.


No that's not fair. Because it was in a match. When Arn hit a slam on Spears it was after they been wrestling for a long time. Not to mention that slam didn't win Cody the match. They still wrestled a few minutes after the spot and Cody did his own stuff to actually win the match. The fact that Kofi was fresh and lost to just one F5. Well that's just inexcusable and why WWE booking sucks.


----------



## headstar (May 16, 2012)

A pathetic 0.7 rating, Swagger as their "big debut" and a very average quality show is far from putting the world on notice.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

imthegame19 said:


> Thats social media nonsense over reaction. With people to complain just to complain and then they forget about it two days later. What was done to Kofi was legit terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I told a friend of mine about it (he was working) and he’s what I’d call a serious casual — he’s gone to several live shows and WM once and even to some indie shows, but he’s not someone who keeps up with it every single week or goes on message boards like this — and said ‘Brock beat him in about 5 seconds’ and his response was ‘he should.’ 

And this is a guy who owns a New Day shirt which he still wears sometimes and bought one for each of his kids.

That’s how a lot of people see Brock. It’s an extension of what he’s done in UFC and as a college wrestler and how he’s been booked.

And Kofi looks like he’s not big enough to carry his bags. Now we all know sometimes (with the right people) a little guy can beat a bigger guy in a real fight, but I honestly don’t think anyone Kofi’s size lasts long with Brock in a shoot. Do you?

Kofi got a great run. It’s easy to forget the majority of opinion on his run the last couple of months has been that it’s gotten stale and past its sell-by date, even though I think almost all of his title feuds have been good and well booked.

This was about putting Brock over again as a beast. And it should have been. Not about ‘keeping Kofi strong’ because he’ll be just fine ... he’s more credible now than he was 6 months ago and will remain so. 

Hopefully they’ll do something booking-wise with him soul-searching after being beaten so quickly and make an angle of it for him, but on network TV the right move in front of this new, wider audience was definitely to take the guy with the biggest name recognition, with the most real badass reputation, and make him look like a monster again.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Saintpat said:


> This was about putting Brock over again as a beast. And it should have been.


Yeah except they had Kofi jump on his fucking shoulders lmao

It's garbage tier.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Saintpat said:


> I told a friend of mine about it (he was working) and he’s what I’d call a serious casual — he’s gone to several live shows and WM once and even to some indie shows, but he’s not someone who keeps up with it every single week or goes on message boards like this — and said ‘Brock beat him in about 5 seconds’ and his response was ‘he should.’
> 
> And this is a guy who owns a New Day shirt which he still wears sometimes and bought one for each of his kids.
> 
> ...


The guy was the WWE champion beating other former champions when he had the title. No matter who he's wrestling you don't squash him like that. It just kills your roster when you do stuff like that. 


I'm not even a Kofi fan. It's just terrible booking for its killing WWE. Now fans are suppose to watch shows every week without Brock and care? When the guy they had as the best on the show the last six months just got squashed? As for small guy thing. If Rollins can beat Brock twice and after how strong they booked Kofi before this match. 


It makes no sense for Kofi to get squashed like this. Even Balor, Daniel Bryan and AJ had competitive matches at least. It's just stupid to piss on your regular talent. Just so Brock can look unstoppable again after losing. If WWE actually had a plan they wouldn't have had Brock/Rollins at Summerslam. Instead Brock could have looked strong destroying someone else. Now they felt like Brock had to destroy Kofi because of that. Which just brings down your roster. Thankfully I don't think we will ever see a day when AEW champion gets squashed in 9 seconds. 


Kofi beat all these wrestlers since winning the title...


Daniel Bryan(twice)
Nakumara
Kevin Owens(Twice)
Sami Zayn (Twice)
Ziggler (three times)
Samoa Joe
AJ Styles
Randy Orton

You just make all of those wins not matter. Then make Kofi and rest of those guys not in Brock league.


----------



## Toughest SOB (Oct 3, 2019)

Tilon said:


> Saintpat said:
> 
> 
> > This was about putting Brock over again as a beast. And it should have been.
> ...


Kofi is garbage tier


----------



## NXTSUPERFAN (Oct 19, 2018)

Friday night I was at a buddies playing poker and turned smack down on for back ground noise watching at the corner of my eye. None of the other guys interested in wrestling at all, the entire table stood up and wandered to the tv to see what fury and Cain were doing there. That bring eyes to the product. I then started to tell them about competition (AEW) mentioned Jack Swagger debuted and jay and silent bob were in the crowd. One guy said “that doesn’t sound like competition” I have to agree


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Cool story bro


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

imthegame19 said:


> No that's not fair. Because it was in a match. When Arn hit a slam on Spears it was after they been wrestling for a long time. Not to mention that slam didn't win Cody the match. They still wrestled a few minutes after the spot and Cody did his own stuff to actually win the match. The fact that Kofi was fresh and lost to just one F5. Well that's just inexcusable and why WWE booking sucks.


I miss the days where a finisher was a finisher. I'm happy that he didn't get up after it, but I definitely think it should have been done differently. Arn still punked Spears though, no matter how you want to put it. These companies we are arguing about are still wrestling companies. They are already doing very similar stuff


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Cult03 said:


> I miss the days where a finisher was a finisher. I'm happy that he didn't get up after it, but I definitely think it should have been done differently. Arn still punked Spears though, no matter how you want to put it. These companies we are arguing about are still wrestling companies. They are already doing very similar stuff



It definitely should have been done differently. What we saw just highlighted everything that's wrong with WWE these days.

As for Arn, I had no problem with it at all. Spears down beat up in the corner. Then got up turned right into Arn spin buster. They protected Spears there with taking the move. 


It's not like he saw him coming and Arn got the better of him. It was more protected then even Rock/Corbin last night. Tully was cheating and helping Spears a lot the whole match. So all Arn did was even the odds and it lead to Tully going after Arn. Which then lead to fair fight between Cody/Spears and Cody won.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

headstar said:


> A pathetic 0.7 rating, Swagger as their "big debut" and a very average quality show is far from putting the world on notice.


0.7 huh? 1.4 million beating last week SD and RAW on the most important demo. Good bait though, made me reply.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

NXTSUPERFAN said:


> Friday night I was at a buddies playing poker and turned smack down on for back ground noise watching at the corner of my eye. None of the other guys interested in wrestling at all, the entire table stood up and wandered to the tv to see what fury and Cain were doing there. That bring eyes to the product. I then started to tell them about competition (AEW) mentioned Jack Swagger debuted and jay and silent bob were in the crowd. One guy said “that doesn’t sound like competition” I have to agree


This didn’t happen at all


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Are guys really comparing the Arn run in to Brock squashing Kofi?


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

NXT Only said:


> Are guys really comparing the Arn run in to Brock squashing Kofi?


They're running out of excuses.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Saintpat said:


> imthegame19 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats social media nonsense over reaction. With people to complain just to complain and then they forget about it two days later. What was done to Kofi was legit terrible.
> ...


If you think that was a good idea you are wrong. They just buried him. Brock is the last person who needs anything else to look like a monster. If you think what they did to spears with arn is the same, I think you are just looking to come up with reasons to hate on aew.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

V-Trigger said:


> They're running out of excuses.


Worst part is they’re clearly anti-AEW and assume we are anti-WWE when in reality we just want good shows from both. It’s sickening right now.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


First off, most WWE fans don't want MMA stars in their wrestling. We're sick of them pushing pro wrestlers like Ronda and Cain who are either wildly inexperienced and insanely less talented than other people who are sitting in fucking catering because they were born in the wrong country or fat or not sexy enough or whatever the excuse is, and people like Brock who actually can work his ass off in the ring, but chooses not to, which is even more offensive.

You're right. They can't do anything to please anyone, because they have NO good will. That's why they can't please anyone, because it's YEARS of the exact same SHIT. They don't listen to the fans, they don't respect the fans, they don't care what the fans want, they evaluate talent on a COMPLETELY different basis than the fans do. They false advertise, they drop angles out of nowhere, they push people the fans think are boring, they bury people the fans think are exciting. People have stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. If Cain showed up in AEW (which he technically can do, because he's working without a contract. :lmao :lmao :lmao If that doesn't prove what a massive numpty Vince is, I don't know what will.), people would give it a chance, because they've EARNED a chance. They are different. They are serving the fans. They are putting on a product that WWE is not giving people. A product that is a meritocracy, where your ability to get OVER is the most important quality, and it doesn't matter if you get over through your promos and your charisma, like MJF, it doesn't matter if you get over through your appeal as an underdog, like Riho, it doesn't matter if you get over through high spots (which I hate, but if people like it...*sigh*), like Pac, if you get over, you WILL be pushed in AEW. There is no racial, political, size, or look barrier that is going to stop you, unlike in WWE, where some of the most talented wrestlers on the fucking planet like Asuka and Kairi Sane and Sami Zayn and Samoa Joe can't get a break because Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn have decided that they don't meet their personal criteria to be pushed, even though they meet the criteria of the fans with flying colors. 

I mean, look at some of the most popular people on the roster. They're people the company fucked over. Daniel Bryan, Becky Lynch, CM Punk (who is, if not back he's extremely close), hell, they fucked over Steve Austin. They thought Steve Austin was a boring ring technician who couldn't be a star. Paul Heyman saw it in Austin. He said that Steve Austin would be a bigger star than Hulk Hogan before he was signed to the WWF. How prophetic. Not Vince. Oh, no, Vince was all about Lex Luger, because he had a body, pal. That sure worked out. Right now, their most exciting star, the hottest thing they have right now is Bray Wyatt, a guy who they fucked up BADLY, and he came up with a new character, all on his own, his ideas, his vision, revamped his image with the people and made them forget all the bullshit he went through, and now he's the hottest character in WWE, I dare say the entire industry including anyone in AEW. He has to face Seth Rollins at HIAC who is an ICE COLD champion. He's ice cold. The debate about him as a talent is irrelevant right now, Seth Rollins is not making fans excited right now and Bray Wyatt is. Yet, you have a lot of people (me included) absolutely CONVINCED that Bray is not winning BECAUSE it's WWE. If AEW were putting on the match, The Fiend wins. 100%, hands down, no questions asked, not even a discussion, The Fiend wins and fairly decisively at that.....but it's WWE and they fight their audience. The champion is backed by the corporation and the challenger is not, so the challenger is going to lose, against the wishes of virtually the entire fanbase (including a lot of the champions personal fanbase, who realize he can afford to lose and he'll be just fine.).

If you can't see why fans are giving AEW a chance, no matter how bad it may seem on paper (Swagger) and they're not willing to give WWE a chance, then you have no perspective on what wrestling fans want. If somebody joins AEW who people really like, people are gonna think "Wow. Look at all the feuds they could have, think of how good the promos would be if they faced _____, think of how good the matches would be if they faced _____, this could be really exciting." WWE could book The Rock vs Conor McGregor as the WrestleMania main event and the first thing people would think is "HOW are they going to FUCK this up?" "HOW are they going to make this draw less than it should?" "HOW are they going to make Conor McGregor a geek?" You know why? Because they EARNED that reputation.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Kratosx23 said:


> They can't do anything to please anyone, because they have NO good will.


You could have stopped right there, because that says it all.


----------



## lesenfanteribles (Nov 23, 2004)

There's no pleasing anyone at this point. :lmao


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Toughest SOB said:


> Kofi is garbage tier


Ok. It's a show that is a work. The objective of the show is to entertain people.

Imagine actually paying for a ticket to go see that main event. That booking is a disgrace, and I thought pancake man was a stupid champion anyway.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Brock beating Kofi is fine. Brock vs. Cain is a huge match. It should have the belt involved. When you’ve got The Rock putting eyes on your product, you hit them with your biggest contracted stars.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Brock beating Kofi is fine. Brock vs. Cain is a huge match. It should have the belt involved. When you’ve got The Rock putting eyes on your product, you hit them with your biggest contracted stars.


Yeah, ok. he 'beat' Kofi. Let's pretend he didn't JUMP ONTO HIS SHOULDERS with a flying nothing.

Gillberg got booked stronger than this. But you'll defend anything E. I don't know why I bother unhiding your posts. I guess it's not much different than staring at a car wreck on the freeway.


----------



## Berzerker's Beard (Nov 20, 2012)

beating kofi in that manner was ridiculous, no question about it.

for the last 6-7 months kofi has been one of the most promoted faces on the show. he graces the new smackdown intro at least a few times. casual viewers tuning in for the first time are being told he's one of the top superstars. as if being the *world champion* wasn't indicative enough.

and yet in the presence of brock lesnar he looked like a complete bum. a nobody. meanwhile cain valesquez comes to the ring and michael cole refers him to as a REAL tough guy. okay so what does that make the former *world champion*?

just stupid on so many levels.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Although I heavily agree with Kofi losing to Brock (Kofi had a decent half year title reign after all) the way they did it was pretty disgusting I will admit. They could have protected Kofi a bit by at least making it a 10 minute match where Kofi gets up and fights back and at least kicks out of a few big moves (not F5) to show that he's still tough and durable and THEN have Brock F5 his ass for the pin just after 10 minutes, this would make Kofi still look good and still make Brock look like a beast. Doing it the way they did it was just asinine.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

lol @ people justifying the execution of that Brock/Kofi match. How disingenuous. Most aren't arguing about Brock winning the title. Even I wanted it to happen but the way it was done was garbage and made Kofi's title reign a waste of time, especially if you are WWE. Why do the match and hype it up if that was going to be the execution?

Then again if AEW, or even IMPACT, pulled this nonsense then those same people would find a way to bury them. Fickle folks :mj4


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Tilon said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Brock beating Kofi is fine. Brock vs. Cain is a huge match. It should have the belt involved. When you’ve got The Rock putting eyes on your product, you hit them with your biggest contracted stars.
> ...


He charged Brock early and got hit with an F5. 

I’ll defend anything WWE? I am a staunch critic of them as a promotion, overall. You’ve just made up that narrative in your head and pasted it onto me for your convenience. 

Kofi has been the WWE Champion for months now. He won the belt at WrestleMania. He was never really supposed to be champion. You’re not going to suddenly hit oil with Kofi. The money is in Brock vs. Cain, and they’ve doubled down on Brock as a star. There’s nothing wrong with showing people that story. 

And if I had to guess, I’d say you unhide my posts because of their unparalleled substance. 



Berzerker's Beard said:


> beating kofi in that manner was ridiculous, no question about it.
> 
> for the last 6-7 months kofi has been one of the most promoted faces on the show. he graces the new smackdown intro at least a few times. casual viewers tuning in for the first time are being told he's one of the top superstars. as if being the *world champion* wasn't indicative enough.
> 
> ...


Cain Velasquez is in the WWE now. That is the story. They want their stars to be Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez. That’s wise. Kofi Kingston has his spot and his appeal, and that is not going anywhere just because he lost one match in decisive and dominant fashion to one of the biggest draw cards they’ve got.

And, by the way, you’re delusional if you don’t think AEW wanted Cain Velasquez. It’s being reported that he was in talks with them as recently as this week. WWE outbid them. Would you be criticizing this if it were Cain joining up with Jericho, Santana, Ortiz and Guevara in the Hager spot? Somehow I doubt it.


----------



## poldoh (Oct 5, 2019)

So dumb they took the belt off Kofi. Would've meant more in a legit match. Seems disrespectful/lazy booking.


----------



## Berzerker's Beard (Nov 20, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Cain Velasquez is in the WWE now. That is the story. They want their stars to be Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez. That’s wise. Kofi Kingston has his spot and his appeal, and that is not going anywhere just because he lost one match in decisive and dominant fashion to one of the biggest draw cards they’ve got.
> 
> And, by the way, you’re delusional if you don’t think AEW wanted Cain Velasquez. It’s being reported that he was in talks with them as recently as this week. WWE outbid them. Would you be criticizing this if it were Cain joining up with Jericho, Santana, Ortiz and Guevara in the Hager spot? Somehow I doubt it.


wtf is this nonsense? what did my post have to do with AEW? i made zero mention of AEW. all i said it was foolish and insulting for them to undermine kofi... aka their *world champion*... and by extension their entire roster...the way they did.

yes it would be just as foolish if AEW did it. if some UFC guy came in and beat jericho in a few seconds... only for tony shiovane to say "now here comes a REAL tough guy!"... it would be equally stupid. 

you could still have put the title on brock and also shift the spotlight to cain without making kofi look like a jobber. if your fucking world champion is a jobber what does it say about your company?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

People are over estimating the drawing ability of Cain Velasquez to a retarded extent, he should not be spoken in the same breath as Ronda Rousey in terms of drawing ability. Cain set record low buys as a heavyweight champion, and that was during his run as champion, recently, he got flattened by Francis Ngannou in 20 seconds and drew 1.3 million people on big ESPN.

Cain literally has negative charisma. The only reason it's happening is because of the Saudi Prince.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Cain is being pushed because FOX wants a "sports show" which means change nothing but push established sports stars like Cain Velasquez and Tyson Fury


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

WINNING said:


> lol @ people justifying the execution of that Brock/Kofi match. How disingenuous. Most aren't arguing about Brock winning the title. Even I wanted it to happen but the way it was done was garbage and made Kofi's title reign a waste of time, especially if you are WWE. Why do the match and hype it up if that was going to be the execution?


Tbh, I don`t get why we got a discussion about WWE in the AEW section. So people reduce themself from AEW-fans to Anti-WWE-smarks one more time.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Berzerker's Beard said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Cain Velasquez is in the WWE now. That is the story. They want their stars to be Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez. That’s wise. Kofi Kingston has his spot and his appeal, and that is not going anywhere just because he lost one match in decisive and dominant fashion to one of the biggest draw cards they’ve got.
> ...


We’re in an AEW thread. The topic is about how “AEW put the world on notice.” Pay attention. 

It’s not foolish to “undermine” Kofi. He got beat by a more dominant wrestler. Brock and Cain are on the roster. It doesn’t make the entire roster look weak, because they’re literally on there. You could extend your logic to suggest that no one should ever go over anyone strong, because a hierarchy is bad. 

Jericho and Kofi are not the same case. And if they got Brock Lesnar they probably should put Lesnar over Jericho anyway. And if you got Cain, yes, you probably do put him against Lesnar. This is common sense. 

Kofi is not a jobber. He has been beating everyone for months. He lost quickly to Brock Lesnar — a guy that infamously walked over John Cena. The WWE Title was actually put on a jobber in 2017. But even if Kofi was a jobber (he’s not) the WWE Title is now on Brock Lesnar. Is Brock Lesnar a jobber? And if Kofi was a jobber (he’s not), shouldn’t Brock beat him cleanly. 

Kofi can now respond to this loss. They probably won’t let him, but hypothetically he can. People are more interested in seeing him now than they ever were with him as champion. The WWE Title has been a glorified Intercontinental Title since the roster split. Now it’s on Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar doesn’t hold the IC Title.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Not every match needs to go 5, 10. 15 minutes. Brock runs over people so it matters when he doesn’t. Looking at that SmackDown intro, Kofi Kingston is not going to be a bigger babyface issue than Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan, Cain Velasquez or Seth Rollins going forward. It’s arguable whether he’s a higher priority than Braun Strowman, The Miz or Rey Mysterio. And then you’ve got Becky Lynch and Charlotte. He is _at best_ the #5 male babyface on the roster. I don’t think it would be a stretch to put him at #8. He doesn’t need to be protected. It’s a waste of energy. And that’s _fine_. Kofi gets paid a healthy sum to be in the middle, occasionally sticking his head up when they need someone fresh to mix things up. He’s not about to get fired or start losing in the opening match on Main Event. 

This is pro-wrestling. You book some people to be world beaters and you book some people to get beaten. When he’s in there with Brock, Kofi’s job should definitely be to get beaten. He got beaten quickly and decisively so that when Brock struggles with Cain, Cain looks all the more impressive. I shouldn’t need to explain this to people.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Ger said:


> Tbh, I don`t get why we got a discussion about WWE in the AEW section. So people reduce themself from AEW-fans to Anti-WWE-smarks one more time.


Don't know either. It's been the case all year.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

WINNING said:


> Don't know either. It's been the case all year.


Well for me it's because that farce of a main event just typifies why I hate them to begin with.

For a lot of fans, it's hard to divorce our excitement for the first new company in forever with the reason we want a new company in the first place.


----------



## Berzerker's Beard (Nov 20, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Not every match needs to go 5, 10. 15 minutes. Brock runs over people so it matters when he doesn’t. Looking at that SmackDown intro, Kofi Kingston is not going to be a bigger babyface issue than Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan, Cain Velasquez or Seth Rollins going forward. It’s arguable whether he’s a higher priority than Braun Strowman, The Miz or Rey Mysterio. And then you’ve got Becky Lynch and Charlotte. He is _at best_ the #5 male babyface on the roster. I don’t think it would be a stretch to put him at #8. He doesn’t need to be protected. It’s a waste of energy. And that’s _fine_. Kofi gets paid a healthy sum to be in the middle, occasionally sticking his head up when they need someone fresh to mix things up. He’s not about to get fired or start losing in the opening match on Main Event.
> 
> This is pro-wrestling. You book some people to be world beaters and you book some people to get beaten. When he’s in there with Brock, Kofi’s job should definitely be to get beaten. *He got beaten quickly and decisively so that when Brock struggles with Cain, Cain looks all the more impressive. I shouldn’t need to explain this to people.*


right let's continue to destroy the images of the full time wrestling guys on the roster so we could continue to prop up more celebs and part timers.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Berzerker's Beard said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Not every match needs to go 5, 10. 15 minutes. Brock runs over people so it matters when he doesn’t. Looking at that SmackDown intro, Kofi Kingston is not going to be a bigger babyface issue than Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan, Cain Velasquez or Seth Rollins going forward. It’s arguable whether he’s a higher priority than Braun Strowman, The Miz or Rey Mysterio. And then you’ve got Becky Lynch and Charlotte. He is _at best_ the #5 male babyface on the roster. I don’t think it would be a stretch to put him at #8. He doesn’t need to be protected. It’s a waste of energy. And that’s _fine_. Kofi gets paid a healthy sum to be in the middle, occasionally sticking his head up when they need someone fresh to mix things up. He’s not about to get fired or start losing in the opening match on Main Event.
> ...


A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.


----------



## Berzerker's Beard (Nov 20, 2012)

The Wood said:


> A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.


yea... because of this ass-backwards booking. :lol


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Goddammit, it’s a good thing some people are here to enlighten us all on this bithneth of pro wrasslin that we clearly don’t know anything about. 
Too bad I’ve got them all on ignore.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

The Wood said:


> A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.


On what basis is Cain more valuable as a pro wrestler than Kofi? And I dont even like Kofi but New Day is one of the biggest merch movers of the last 5 years and have one of the most notable social media presences of the whole roster. 

Cain was in UFC, this has been proven to be very hit or miss over the years and usually wrestling fans dont give a shit about pseudo MMA and MMA fans hate pro wrestling. UFC fans clearly didnt jump over and give WWE business when Brock came back. I thought his reaction on Friday was luke warm bordering on poor, the wrestling audience didnt even know the guy was mostly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I would have been OK for Cain to be in AEW, mainly as a little niggle as the guy who beat Brock

But not 1. In the main event and 2. Not for the belt in any shape or form - enforcer to the main heel or stabled up or something like that to hide his flaws.

If the choice was Kofi vs Cain to debut, I would choose Kofi hands down

If it was Cain va the New Day it would not even take 1 second of thought to choose the New Day


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Berzerker's Beard said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.
> ...


Kofi has been pushed since the lead-in to Elimination Chamber. He beat Bryan at Mania. He’s won Gauntlet Matches. He’s been booked fucking fine. He dropped the belt because he got overzealous with the most dominant guy they’ve got and a guy they want to look dominant heading into a PPV for a Saudi prince, who, shitty politics aside, is helping keep the fucking company afloat. 

Ass-backwards would be leading with your mid-card. Not everybody is a fucking main event draw card. The ass-backwards booking was the accidental WWE Title program they fell into with Kofi when they didn’t have *anything* scheduled for Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania, giving him this filler role. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Goddammit, it’s a good thing some people are here to enlighten us all on this bithneth of pro wrasslin that we clearly don’t know anything about.
> Too bad I’ve got them all on ignore.


You know what is more annoying than people who know what they’re talking about? People who passive aggressively try and mock people for knowing what they’re talking about instead of actually raising a goddamn point. 



Taroostyles said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.
> ...


What is going to look better on a marquee? Brock vs. Cain or Brock vs. Kofi? If you say the latter, you are lying to yourself. 

You’re arguing The New Day’s social media presence? Really? Yes, the move merch. They were huge movers in 2016. That was without them being jammed into main event positions.

With Cain you are talking about a guy who is going to appeal to people like the Saudi prince, FOX executives and sporting analysts. You also have a potential gateway to Hispanic fans. 105k tuned in specifically to see this interaction. Your personal opinion that MMA fans hate wrestling, or that crossover stars don’t appeal to people is just that — your opinion. They obviously don’t want MMA fans to hate wrestling, so they are going with the more serious presentation of the dudes with credibility supplanting the dude who jumps around and claps. That’s _fine_. Cain is untested as a pro-wrestling draw, but they are going to attempt to present him as one. Him being spotty in MMA really doesn’t matter. He’s still a name with crossover potential they can do their own work promoting.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

The Wood said:


> A part-time Brock and a part-time Cain are far more valuable than a full-time Kofi Kingston.


But it's not where the company should invest their future either. Kofi being handled poorly doesn't make this right and WWE should burn for it.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Kofi has been pushed since the lead-in to Elimination Chamber. He beat Bryan at Mania. He’s won Gauntlet Matches. He’s been booked fucking fine. He dropped the belt because he got overzealous with the most dominant guy they’ve got and a guy they want to look dominant heading into a PPV for a Saudi prince, who, shitty politics aside, is helping keep the fucking company afloat.
> 
> Ass-backwards would be leading with your mid-card. Not everybody is a fucking main event draw card. The ass-backwards booking was the accidental WWE Title program they fell into with Kofi when they didn’t have *anything* scheduled for Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania, giving him this filler role.
> 
> ...


So you're argument is that Cain in wrestling is good because a Saudi Prince, FOX executives, and sports analysts will like it? Good lord.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Tilon said:


> Well for me it's because that farce of a main event just typifies why I hate them to begin with.
> 
> For a lot of fans, it's hard to divorce our excitement for the first new company in forever with the reason we want a new company in the first place.


Your new wife/GF wouldn`t like, if you would write day and night stories about your ex-wife/gf on the internet, (which means your obsessed by your ex).

It is not exactly the same thing, but you get the idea.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Ger said:


> Your new wife/GF wouldn`t like, if you would write day and night stories about your ex-wife/gf on the internet, (which means your obsessed by your ex).
> 
> It is not exactly the same thing, but you get the idea.


You're right, it's not even close to the same thing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Taroostyles said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Kofi has been pushed since the lead-in to Elimination Chamber. He beat Bryan at Mania. He’s won Gauntlet Matches. He’s been booked fucking fine. He dropped the belt because he got overzealous with the most dominant guy they’ve got and a guy they want to look dominant heading into a PPV for a Saudi prince, who, shitty politics aside, is helping keep the fucking company afloat.
> ...


That’s part of it. The Saudis and FOX are making WWE rich at the moment. Why wouldn’t you try to keep them happy? He’s also a big star and seems to be pretty fucking good at it. 

If he were in AEW, people would be going NUTS for him. WWE got him. When you’ve got Brock and Cain, you do Brock and Cain. When you’re doing Brock and Cain, it’s your main event. When it’s your main event, it’s fine to make it for the title. 

I can’t believe how many people are struggling with this.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I swear some of you would throw a hissy fit if WWE got Connor McGregor and put him in the main event of one of their shows because “no one knows him” and “it buries Kofi Kingston.” Holy fuck. 

Kofi is fine. He’s actually better off losing the belt this way because people are actually giving a shit.


----------



## KennyOmegaa (Sep 25, 2019)

Tilon said:


> You're right, it's not even close to the same thing.




One might rant about an ex, it doesn't mean they want to get back together with them. It's just further confirmation why you no longer WANTED to be with them anymore


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

The Wood said:


> I swear some of you would throw a hissy fit if WWE got Connor McGregor and put him in the main event of one of their shows because “no one knows him” and “it buries Kofi Kingston.” Holy fuck.
> 
> Kofi is fine. He’s actually better off losing the belt this way because people are actually giving a shit.


NO, the way to have Kofi lose is like this.

You book a 5 minute match, where Kofi looks decent against Brock, then you have Big E turn on Kofi and cost him the match. 

Thus you have Big E as a heel to feud with Kofi.


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

birthday_massacre said:


> NO, the way to have Kofi lose is like this.
> 
> You book a 5 minute match, where Kofi looks decent against Brock, then you have Big E turn on Kofi and cost him the match.
> 
> Thus you have Big E as a heel to feud with Kofi.


I highly disagree with that. In no way should someone like Kofi compete with Brock. It's a good thing Brock squashed him. I really couldn't sustain my disbelief that much.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I think threads like this really hurt the AEW fanbase which already has a bad name with the WWE fans.

Yeah WWE put over UFC and AEW put over a Bellator guy. Who cares? MMA has a ton of former wrestling fans and it could boost ratings and interest for both companies.


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## SMW (Feb 28, 2008)

AEW Dynamite was awesome!! I just watched it again when I got off work today. I havent been invested in a wrestling show like that in a long time!!


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think threads like this really hurt the AEW fanbase which already has a bad name with the WWE fans.


Who cares?, One million people watched wrestling last week when nxt ran unopposed. This week close to 2.5 million fans watched wrestling. Those extra fans didn’t tune in for nxt, they are AEW fans. They don't share an audience.


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## Intimidator3 (Sep 28, 2019)

Damn, Seth/Fiend just topped Brock/Kofi. That was a train wreck.

If that doesn’t make people stop viewing AEW as some kind of enemy then I don’t know what will.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Jan.S.Gelz said:


> It's a good thing Brock squashed him. I really couldn't sustain my disbelief that much.


I get this line of thinking. But he literally runs over and jumps onto his shoulders. That shreds any belief in the competition as legitimate. It looked unbelievably fake.

That's part of why it's being compared to the fingerpoke of doom.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

birthday_massacre said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > I swear some of you would throw a hissy fit if WWE got Connor McGregor and put him in the main event of one of their shows because “no one knows him” and “it buries Kofi Kingston.” Holy fuck.
> ...


I definitely would not turn Big E heel. Just like the Dean Ambrose heel turn was a disaster. Just like Rikishi’s heel turn was a disaster in 2000. If you turn Big E, you are sacrificing all the things he brings to the table as an entertaining babyface. 

Kofi being beaten quickly is fine. 



Tilon said:


> Jan.S.Gelz said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good thing Brock squashed him. I really couldn't sustain my disbelief that much.
> ...


Lol, no one legitimate is comparing this to the fingerpoke. They’re not even philosophically similar. Kofi charged Brock and got caught. He made a mistake. 

If you want to see fake, go and look at the stuff in AEW.


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

reyfan said:


> AEW brings out Jack Swagger and AEW fans lose their shit, WWE brings out a legit MMA fighter and the fans laugh, WWE can't do anything to please anyone at this point.


Jake Hager is a legit MMA fighter?


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> I get that as I know you've been one of the ones super into his run. But Kofi was starting to get push back these type of places. So seeing "well they shouldn't have squashed Kofi" makes some of it come off as deflection because some AEW fans are salty they got Cain. A lot of folk AEW fans were hoping were coming over, haven't.


I don't think there's that much salt from Cain if I'm honest. Maybe one person?

Cain looked good in AAA when he wrestled with Cody. People were bound to get excited. Maybe not so much more him, but that AEW beat WWE to one of the biggest names in combat sports, specifically the guy who beat Brock Lesnar. It would have been a statement of intent from AEW IMO.

I'm disappointed he went to WWE. I hear he still hasn't signed a long term deal. I'd like to see him jump ship.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

MrEvans said:


> I don't think there's that much salt from Cain if I'm honest. Maybe one person?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That 2nd paragraph is like textbook salt though. Nothing wrong with it, but it's still salt lol.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I’m not up on my hip vernacular, bit isn’t salt like ‘Fuck him, we didn’t want him anyway, he’s no good  ‘


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> That 2nd paragraph is like textbook salt though. Nothing wrong with it, but it's still salt lol.


Not at all.

Wanting an independent, smaller company to have a win against the big corporate giant is not salt at all.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m not up on my hip vernacular, bit isn’t salt like ‘Fuck him, we didn’t want him anyway, he’s no good  ‘


Yes


MrEvans said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Wanting an independent, smaller company to have a win against the big corporate giant is not salt at all.


That specifically isn't no. But a lot of the reactions have been "who cares Cain isn't some big star" or "I don't care about MMA fighters in my wrestling anyway". 

But agree to disagree


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

RapShepard said:


> That specifically isn't no. But a lot of the reactions have been "who cares Cain isn't some big star" or "I don't care about MMA fighters in my wrestling anyway".
> 
> But agree to disagree


I think it’s another case of he’d have been a nice grab, too bad he’s probably going to WWE, but it’s not as big of a deal not getting him as it would have been if we did get him. I think. Or something.


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I think it’s another case of he’d have been a nice grab, too bad he’s probably going to WWE, but it’s not as big of a deal not getting him as it would have been if we did get him. I think. Or something.


Pretty much.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I think it’s another case of he’d have been a nice grab, too bad he’s probably going to WWE, but it’s not as big of a deal not getting him as it would have been if we did get him. I think. Or something.


For sone yeah, but a lot less of that than the salty takes. But it is what it is.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MrEvans said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> > I get that as I know you've been one of the ones super into his run. But Kofi was starting to get push back these type of places. So seeing "well they shouldn't have squashed Kofi" makes some of it come off as deflection because some AEW fans are salty they got Cain. A lot of folk AEW fans were hoping were coming over, haven't.
> ...


The serious names aren’t taking AEW that seriously any more. This is coming from someone who was hoping AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Shinsuke Nakamura and The Usos would all jump. 

It’s looking like even CM Punk will be choosing WWE. There’s only so much credibility you can have working for a promotion with that shtick.


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

The Wood said:


> The serious names aren’t taking AEW that seriously any more. This is coming from someone who was hoping AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Shinsuke Nakamura and The Usos would all jump.
> 
> It’s looking like even CM Punk will be choosing WWE. There’s only so much credibility you can have working for a promotion with that shtick.


I honestly think there are those waiting to see what happens with AEW. Why would they jump to an uncertainty if they've got it made?

If AEW continues beating NXT and doing solid viewers whilst having great crowd reaction, bigger names will switch. Mox & Jericho were just the beginning IMO.

I don't think Shinsuke, Orton or Styles go (I'd love Styles in AEW) but a good chunk of that roster might although I can't imagine them all being wanted by AEW.

Especially when you have Marty Scurll, Pillman Jnr, Ibushi in wait. I can seriously see Curtis Axel going across as the son of Mr Perfect.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MrEvans said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > The serious names aren’t taking AEW that seriously any more. This is coming from someone who was hoping AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Shinsuke Nakamura and The Usos would all jump.
> ...


I think there’s a lot of wait-and-see. It’s a honeymoon period, and if it turns out to be WWE-lite and Tony Khan stops paying out, not because he can’t, but because the returns aren’t there, a lot of talent will have to go crawling back to Vince.

The talent that leave will be the ones that are absolutely artistically miserable in WWE. The Revival still haven’t signed their deals, but it wouldn’t shock me if they did. 

I think Axel stays because WWE have been good to him for so long (nine years on the main roster). He’d probably be getting $500,000 a year to basically hang out on the road and occasionally do something funny.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Ibushi signed a lifetime NJPW deal, he's not coming over unless NJPW and AEW make amends.

And if that happens, Katy bar the door.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Tilon said:


> Ibushi signed a lifetime NJPW deal, he's not coming over unless NJPW and AEW make amends.
> 
> And if that happens, Katy bar the door.


Well, Harold Meij is leaving - and I think he was part of the problem

Soooooo....... maybe? Hopefully?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There are bigger issues between New Japan and AEW than Harold Meij. AEW basically used New Japan as a springboard to try and get their own shit started. If New Japan were still under the impression that Omega was going to choose them as a primary focus heading into 2019, then they might have felt he bullshitted them since this has clearly been in the works for longer. 

New Japan have a working relationship with CMLL and AEW couldn’t wait to get into bed with AAA. They also put a lot of parody on their shows. New Japan has comedy in Toru Yano and the like, but they wouldn’t put on obviously fake shit. 

People just assumed that this arrangement would be natural. I was one of them early on. I think a relationship with NXT is more likely at this point, should New Japan either want to get onto the USA Network or the WWE Network when their AXS deal is up.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Tilon said:


> Ibushi signed a lifetime NJPW deal, he's not coming over unless NJPW and AEW make amends.
> 
> And if that happens, Katy bar the door.


It's a 2 year deal. The lifetime thing is a gimmick.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

If you thought AJ Styles was joining AEW, you were being stupid. Why would he leave WWE when he is one of the few people they treat well and constantly push?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Death Rider said:


> If you thought AJ Styles was joining AEW, you were being stupid. Why would he leave WWE when he is one of the few people they treat well and constantly push?


Money, job satisfaction, artistic freedom, scheduling and potentially his family. So many factors. Just because you are pushed doesn’t mean you are happy. Why do people not understand that simple premise?


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## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

The Wood said:


> I think there’s a lot of wait-and-see. It’s a honeymoon period, and if it turns out to be WWE-lite and Tony Khan stops paying out, not because he can’t, but because the returns aren’t there, a lot of talent will have to go crawling back to Vince.
> 
> The talent that leave will be the ones that are absolutely artistically miserable in WWE. The Revival still haven’t signed their deals, but it wouldn’t shock me if they did.
> 
> I think Axel stays because WWE have been good to him for so long (nine years on the main roster). He’d probably be getting $500,000 a year to basically hang out on the road and occasionally do something funny.


Fully agree with this post!

Except for Axel, I dunno man - I can see him looking to go. He's done a few emotional interviews about his father and wanting to carry on his legacy. Curt Hennig had a good initial run in WCW with the Horsemen and NWO. 
Anderson & Malenko were friends of Hennig and they're both AEW.

Imagine Anderson being a coach for Axel?


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

.


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