# Zayn-Nakamura



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

The guys are just really, really over.. match itself was ok. 3 stars at best.


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## Daemon_Rising (Jul 18, 2009)

It deserves all the hype it is going to get.


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## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

Great match, and one where Nakamura was only doing half of what he's capable of.

High 3 maybe even 4 stars. Fans were crazy for it.


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## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what they're talking about.


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## pburrows92 (Jul 22, 2012)

Just cancel Mania. 

This event so far has set the bar so so high!


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## Slider575 (May 14, 2013)

For a match that had pretty much no build up, you could not do any better than that match. Fantastic debut match, and there is still so much more to Nakamura, I just wonder what things they will let him do down the road


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

Nakamura should be the on WM card. Nakamura vs Taker would have been :mark:


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## Hibachi (Mar 12, 2009)

Solid 4 Star match, I like his new music much more after a match than as an entrance, not too fussy on the re-name of his finisher but I'll cope.


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## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Amazing match :sodone from their entrances to the end. I don't really rate matches but it is a MOTY contender or sure. Nakamura was on fire and Zayn was with him step for step. The matches he could have with Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, Cena and a few others :banderas

Almost shed a tear seeing how this is Zayn's last match. Didn't expect him to retire so young @swagger_ROCKS


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## Sick Graps-V2 (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm happy right now, that match was great. The fact we just saw that match happen and it was awesome has put me me on a high. Honestly, I enjoyed every moment. I know we complain here sometimes but I'm more than happy to compliment WWE when they get it right; thanks for that WWE, it was amazing.


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## Genesis 1.0 (Oct 31, 2008)

This, ladies and gentlemen, was a showcase of the artistry of professional wrestling. If it's possible to show you the soul of a sport, this was a fine example of that moment.

:rusevyes


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## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Was a fantastic match, and a stupendous debut for Nakamura. 

I'm quite alarmed at the 5* ratings though. Really? It was great but not THAT great.


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## Hartwich (Dec 17, 2012)

Wow. Absolute perfection. Nakamura is electrifying, so much charisma. Loved the selling from both.


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## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Iron Man said:


> Amazing match :sodone from their entrances to the end. I don't really rate matches but it is a MOTY contender or sure. Nakamura was on fire and Zayn was with him step for step. The matches he could have with Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, Cena and a few others :banderas
> 
> Almost shed a tear seeing how this is Zayn's last match. Didn't expect him to retire so young @swagger_ROCKS


:mj2 gonna be an amazing night when Zayn goes over Seth and makes him obsolete.


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## Sykova (Sep 29, 2007)

I lost it at the "fight forever" chants.

Let's hold a boycott and watch takeover on the network while wrestlemania is on lmao

I'm going to watch the whole thing again tomorrow before work. This is awesome.


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## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

So they got 20 minutes, eh? Not surprised it was a good match. Big LOL to the troll saying it was at best 3 stars, I haven't even seen it and I know that's a lie. That being said, 5 stars...I could believe about 4 no problem, but 5 is pushing it. Come on, this is still WWE and they still handcuff the shit out of people.


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## Sick Graps-V2 (Apr 1, 2013)

The feeling I got while watching that Nakamura vs Zayn match is the reason I watch wrestling/wwe. This is what we love.


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## kimino (Mar 16, 2012)

Great match, but 5 stars? 4 stars match, i enjoyed it a lot.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Match was very good. 5 stars tad extreme but still great match


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

KO Bossy said:


> So they got 20 minutes, eh? Not surprised it was a good match. Big LOL to the troll saying it was at best 3 stars, I haven't even seen it and I know that's a lie. That being said, 5 stars...I could believe about 4 no problem, but 5 is pushing it. Come on, this is still WWE and they still handcuff the shit out of people.


they were stiffing the absolute hell out of each other back and forth. I was pretty shocked at how Zayne actually beat the hell out of Nakamura for a good minute. That suspension of disbelief was complete for a while. Shockingly good. I didn't think the match would live up to the hype for a number of reasons. Within about 2 minutes I could taste my words.


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## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm glad that they are having this Nakamura guy go through the rigours of NXT first like any normal rookie. Seeing the colossal failure of A.J Styles at adapting to the WWE match building dynamics on the main roster thus far, it indeed looks to be a very smart move on WWE management and Nakamura's part to have him prove himself at NXT first.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

I was worried they might not mesh well together since they've never faced each other, but holy fuck they just put on the MOTY imo. No match at WM will come close to being as good as this match. 

This is a match i'm gonna be watching over and over again over the next week, thats how good it was.


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## MEMS (Jun 18, 2013)

Absolutely amazing. Really reminds ya what you waste all your time on this crap for. You get something like that and it makes all the shit worth it.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Didn't have the build to be 5*stars, but its unlikely any match at Mania tops it. Nakamura's charisma alone puts him above the majority of the roster. To steal the show in your first match, he's going straight to the main roster. Vince will love a guy like Nakamura. 

Gotta give credit to Sami, very few talents on the roster can match Nakamura for intensity. Incredible match.


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## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

This match reminds me why I love wrestling so much.
It was so fucking good, I swear to you guys I was literally watching this with tears, I was sobbing like a little girl.

This match also increased my intense hatred of WWE main product, I cant fathom how this is the same company.


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## Delbusto (Apr 6, 2008)

People, as amazing as it was, and yes it was amazing, that was not a 5 star match.


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## drew8117 (Feb 25, 2016)

kimino said:


> Great match, but 5 stars? 4 stars match, i enjoyed it a lot.






Roy Mustang said:


> Match was very good. 5 stars tad extreme but still great match




This. 

Really good match. Loved it. 

But not quite worth the hype being pushed on it. 

Wouldn't mind seeing another match with them, and where they take him from here.


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## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> I'm glad that they are having this Nakamura guy go through the rigours of NXT first like any normal rookie. Seeing the colossal failure of A.J Styles at adapting to the WWE match building dynamics on the main roster thus far, it indeed looks to be a very smart move on WWE management and Nakamura's part to have him prove himself at NXT first.


You're really going to try to derail another thread, especially one of the few positive threads around this place? Kindly fuck off.


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## Afrolatino (Jan 5, 2015)

It was a great match, Nakamura seems coming from Hollywood, instead of Japan...:dance2


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## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

Perfect match :clap


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## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

bonkertons said:


> You're really going to try to derail another thread, especially one of the few positive threads around this place? Kindly fuck off.


But mine was a positive post as well :shrug

I'm actually glad that Nakamura got started on the proper platform, and it would definitely make a difference in the long run.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

This was something extraordinary and special, and every move they did had the fans on the edge of their seats, not to mention that the two of them melded so well together. 

Both Zayn and Nakamura played off each other the whole match, trading spots, and bringing out the best in each other. To see goody two shoes Sami Zayn stomping on Shinsuke's head was shocking in the best possible way. 

But what really adds to the match is the whole feel of how this seemed like a torch passing moment. Sami said goodbye to NXT, which was his, even though he wasn't champion. He metaphorically seemed to hand it over to Nakamura to be the fan favorite now, so we'll see what happens there. 

But I haven't been drawn into a match like that in a LONG time. Does it seem a stretch to call it a five star match? Sure, but I'm doing it. 

This in my eyes was *******


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## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

BTW, the match was absolutely 5 stars. It was perfection. They took a match with zero build and compelled the fuck out of you(me) for a good twenty minutes. For the most part, I forgot I was watching a "fake" wrestling match. The progression of the two guys going from big names who had no ill will toward one another, to absolute bitter enemies was brilliantly done. Watching Zayn gradually display a brutal side as the match progressed was also brilliantly done. 

Everything about it was perfect. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time.


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## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> But mine was a positive post as well :shrug
> 
> I'm actually glad that Nakamura got started on the proper platform, and it would definitely make a difference in the long run.


You're obviously not an idiot(I've seen you use plenty of big words). You know exactly what you're doing. Give the troll schtick a rest for a day or two.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> But mine was a positive post as well :shrug
> 
> I'm actually glad that Nakamura got started on the proper platform, and it would definitely make a difference in the long run.


I'll be shocked if Vince doesn't have Nakamura on Raw by next month. He's the international star that Vince wanted Del Rio or Sheamus to be.


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## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

The crowd was soooooooooo annoying. There is no reason to chant at every fucking move. What a bunch of tryhard fans. Match was good though.


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## LunchCombo (Apr 5, 2014)

You guys are aware you can ignore users right?


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## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

*How bout you guys just don't respond to Cyclone, talk about derailing the thread then quote him twice :drake1*

Watching the match again, reminds me of when the Wyatts fought the Shield at EC. The pops and chants before they even touched was something fantastic, just showed you that something truly special was about to happen. Interested to see where Nakamura goes from here. Does he stay in NXT and chase the title or does he get called up fast.


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## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

bonkertons said:


> You're obviously not an idiot(I've seen you use plenty of big words). You know exactly what you're doing. Give the troll schtick a rest for a day or two.


So, now I can't even be positive about something? What's so wrong about what I said anyway? I already made it clear that I think of the recent events as positive developments.


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## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> I'll be shocked if Vince doesn't have Nakamura on Raw by next month. He's the international star that Vince wanted Del Rio or Sheamus to be.


:no


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## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> I'll be shocked if Vince doesn't have Nakamura on Raw by next month. He's the international star that Vince wanted Del Rio or Sheamus to be.


Interesting. How popular is he outside of Japan and a niche following in other traditional wrestling centres?


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## closetfan (Feb 28, 2013)

Overexposure will destroy Nakamura if WWE doesn't manage him properly.


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## geomon (May 13, 2010)

I know in this age of internet hyperbole and exaggeration and hype, what I have to say about this match will seem like more of the same.

This match, to me, is one of the best matches I have ever seen in my 30+ years of being a pro wrestling fan. It is easily one of the top 5 matches of all time. 5 stars doesn't cover it. This is an instant classic. This is the kind of match people should and I believe will be talking about 10, 20, 30 years later. Like a Flair/Steamboat or Macho/Steamboat, this belongs up there with them.


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## JokersLastLaugh (Jan 25, 2016)

bonkertons said:


> You're really going to try to derail another thread, especially one of the few positive threads around this place? Kindly fuck off.





LunchCombo said:


> You guys are aware you can ignore users right?


It's SUCH a handy feature.

Anyways this was by far the best match of the night for me. No other match came close.


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## JamJamGigolo (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm not an indy guy and the only Asian wrestler I ever really liked was tajiri years ago. Having seen this one match though, Nakumura is clearly the best Asian wrestler I've ever seen. That was incredible. The only drawback is I was bored by the two matches after that by comparison.

I want Nakumura vs Rich Swann for the NXT title! These two guys I never heard of a couple weeks ago have become my favorites after seeing one match a piece.


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## skarvika (Jun 2, 2014)

Braylyt said:


> The guys are just really, really over.. match itself was ok. 3 stars at best.


Nailed it. I really believe people feel like they need to worship this match just because it's Zayn vs Nakamura. The match itself was the definition of "Standard match, had a couple cool things, I'll probably forget about it next week."


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## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> I'm glad that they are having this Nakamura guy go through the rigours of NXT first like any normal rookie. Seeing the colossal failure of A.J Styles at adapting to the WWE match building dynamics on the main roster thus far, it indeed looks to be a very smart move on WWE management and Nakamura's part to have him prove himself at NXT first.


You have a shitty gimmick. Go back to OVW.


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## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> So, now I can't even be positive about something? What's so wrong about what I said anyway? I already made it clear that I think of the recent events as positive developments.


There is nothing wrong with what you said regarding the topic. The problem is the AJ-bait that you seem to throw out in every thread that you participate in.


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## marshal99 (Jan 6, 2016)

If Nakamura goes to RAW , Vince will have him doing comedy spots - chop chop pee pee.


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## RetepAdam. (May 13, 2007)

"FIGHT FOREVER" said it all.

Easily the greatest exhibition match I've ever seen. Going to be a strong contender for Match of the Year, despite having almost zero kayfabe stakes.


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## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

geomon said:


> I know in this age of internet hyperbole and exaggeration and hype, what I have to say about this match will seem like more of the same.
> 
> This match, to me, is one of the best matches I have ever seen in my 30+ years of being a pro wrestling fan. It is easily one of the top 5 matches of all time. 5 stars doesn't cover it. This is an instant classic. This is the kind of match people should and I believe will be talking about 10, 20, 30 years later. Like a Flair/Steamboat or Macho/Steamboat, this belongs up there with them.


This..*****

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## TyAbbotSucks (Dec 10, 2013)

2nd best match of the night


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> Interesting. How popular is he outside of Japan and a niche following in other traditional wrestling centres?


He's not as big a star as AJ is over here(TNA run), but he's known in Mexico(He took a mini tour to develop his skills) and in European wrestling circles.

What helps him is he speaks English and Spanish. He's a good size and has a very unique look. He's also not just a good in-ring guy, as his Charisma alone could get him over.

In Japan, Nakamura was always seen as the one guy that was perfect for a Sports-Entertainment style product.



marshal99 said:


> If Nakamura goes to RAW , Vince will have him doing comedy spots - chop chop pee pee.


He's got size and that MMA background. You never know with Vince, but I'm confident he'll do well in the WWE.


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## Sarcasm1 (Aug 24, 2011)

Iron Man said:


> *How bout you guys just don't respond to Cyclone, talk about derailing the thread then quote him twice :drake1*
> 
> Watching the match again, reminds me of when the Wyatts fought the Shield at EC. The pops and chants before they even touched was something fantastic, just showed you that something truly special was about to happen. Interested to see where Nakamura goes from here. Does he stay in NXT and chase the title or does he get called up fast.


I heard he is getting paid like a main eventer. No way I see someone that gets paid that much staying in "developmental" long. I say somewhere between Summerslam-Rumble.


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## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I will watch this entire match again as soon as I can.

And that FUCKING entrance theme, goddammit, it's not Subconscious, but it's really, really damn good. Wasn't disappointed in the slightest.


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## Tommy-V (Sep 4, 2006)

Great match :clap

Nakamura's theme is awesome.


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## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> He's not as big a star as AJ is over here(TNA run), but he's known in Mexico and in European wrestling circles.
> 
> What helps him is he speaks English and Spanish. He's a good size and has a very unique look. He's also not just a good in-ring guy, as his Charisma alone could get him over.
> 
> In Japan, Nakamura was always seen as the one guy that was perfect for a Sports-Entertainment style product.


Glad to hear that, looking forward to seeing him on the main roster in due course. Hope he lives up to the hype, because he is indeed fighting some incredible odds as far as how Japanese wrestlers have fared in WWE over the years with regards to how inadequate most have turned out to be in the WWE environment.


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## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

This match to me is what Pro Wrestling is meant to be. Have you on the edge of your seat, have you marking for every move, gasping at every kickout and being reminded that there is NOTHING better then Pro Fucking Wrestling. Zayn/Naka 5 stars and an all time classic YEEEAAAAAAAAOHHHHH﻿ OLE


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> Glad to hear that, looking forward to seeing him on the main roster in due course. Hope he lives up to the hype, because he is indeed fighting some incredible odds as far as how Japanese wrestlers have fared in WWE over the years with regards to how inadequate most have turned out to be in the WWE environment.


He's the opposite to AJ(Who I'm very high on), so I think you'll enjoy his work. What's hurt Japanese guys in the past is size, bad English or lack of charisma. 
He's so different from the average New Japan guy, which is why I think WWE dropped serious money to steal him.


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## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Tommy-V said:


> Great match :clap
> 
> Nakamura's theme is awesome.


I won't stop hitting play until my ears bleed.

:sodone


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## lexexpress (Nov 14, 2013)

I was at the show and would probably rate it 4 1/2*. The atmosphere was electric throughout and the match delivered.


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## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

To the people who think this match was all hype and only good because they are over.

This match managed to move me to tears, fact! and this despite the fact that:
1. I don't like Sami Zayn, I just don't. I respect his abilities as a wrestler but I just don't like him, at all. 
2. Nakamura, I heard he was good but I never really bothered to see a single match of his, this was the first time ever I saw him perform. having said that I WILL go to see his match with AJ style, Nakamura made me a fan.

So don't give me this bullshit about them being over, just admit this match was terrific and stop trying to pretend you're edgy and cool by going upstream.


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## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Glad that people are really praising the match. I'll have to give it a watch within the next few days. I find it hard to believe this was 5 stars and the true overall MOTY, considering what WK10 gave us. I've also seen Nakamura perform at his absolute peak against the absolute cream of the crop, so perhaps...I dunno, I just feel sorta doubtful about it being a true 5 star classic. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. 

I think a lot of the people blown away by it also haven't really watched much Puro, like New Japan since 2012, New Japan in the 90s with all their Junior Heavyweights and Muta, or All Japan in the 90s when they implemented King's Road and performed the greatest wrestling in history. I've seen the best of the best, and my 6th sense is telling me that this isn't quite at that level. Maybe its because Sami has felt really cold since returning, maybe its because its under a WWE label and they hamstring the shit out of their talent, in ring. Who knows? But I'm glad people are taking to Nakamura already. And with good reason, he's a fucking wrestling god.


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## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> :mj2 gonna be an amazing night when Zayn goes over Seth and makes him obsolete.


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## almostfamous (May 18, 2009)

People trying to act cool an undersell this as a 3* match.

This is an instant classic and a 5* match. I've watched it twice and couldn't find a fault with it.


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## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

I was stood up for the whole match, it felt like a war with a super hot crowd. Its matches like this that make me a pro wrestling fan, 5 stars? not sure as I always like to rewatch before throwing out ratings but it sure as hell felt close.


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## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

The fight forever chant was so sweet to my ears. this match was like a drug to the crowed


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## CHAMPviaDQ (Jun 19, 2012)

I don't rate matches or call MOTY 'cause I don't watch enough wrestling for that to hold any weight. In my humble opinion though that was an absolutely amazing match. I stopped watching wrestling pretty much altogether, even NXT but I am glad I tuned in for this show. There was no way I was going to miss Swagsuke's debut anyway. I wasn't let down in any capacity even his theme wasn't the mess I expected it to be. Subconscious is still a better theme imo, but his NXT theme is pretty damn good. 

I am very pleased with that match. Also Bobby Fucking Roode and Kota Ibushi in the audience.

:wall 

Bah Gawd all mighty.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

almostfamous said:


> People trying to act cool an undersell this as a 3* match.
> 
> This is an instant classic and a 5* match. I've watched it twice and couldn't find a fault with it.


I know, i mean what else exactly did they need to do for it to be considered a 5* match? A flaming table spot?

The match was amazing, and of course no matter how good a match is theres always gonna be those few trying to be cool by going against the majority opinion.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

And another thing worthy of note? Usually it takes some adjustment to the WWE style considering they use a hard camera and all, and I don't think New Japan works that way.

Nakamura had ZERO trouble finding that camera. And when he did, the guy basically eye fucked it. 

He defintely is the real deal.


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## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

Perfect match that exceeded the hype. Zayn had a career performance, and Nak is the best wrestler on the planet.


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## Smarky Smark (Sep 2, 2012)

These 2 guys put on a 4 1/2 star match. The crowd and atmosphere added at least another 1/2 star.

Edit: Ass kicker Sami Zayn stiffing Nakamura and busting his nose bloody also added to the match.


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## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

OFF. THE. CHARTS.

I remember listening to Jim Ross talking about "The King of Strong Style." "That means he's a badass."

He showed you why tonight with a credible opponent who, though he went out on his back, went out like the heart and soul of NXT would.

I hope his next feud with Kevin Owens over the IC strap is a good reward for his hard work.


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## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

I was a little disappointed. Zayn definitely played it safe since he has to wrestle again on sunday. 

Have some of you even seen Nakamura in new japan? This wasnt even close to 5 stars. Nxt crowds will chant at headlocks and hammerlocks

Nakamura was great. Cant complain. 

I thought the opener was the best match though


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## marshal99 (Jan 6, 2016)

Wrestlefire said:


> OFF. THE. CHARTS.
> 
> I remember listening to Jim Ross talking about "The King of Strong Style." "That means he's a badass."
> 
> ...


 Jim Ross ‏@JRsBBQ 2h2 hours ago

Damn.. @shinsukeN vs @iLikeSamiZayn was #SlobberKnocker level. #Proud #NXTTakeoverDallas


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## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

Yep, saw that tweet. And he was right.


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## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> He's the opposite to AJ(Who I'm very high on), so I think you'll enjoy his work. What's hurt Japanese guys in the past is size, bad English or lack of charisma.
> He's so different from the average New Japan guy, which is why I think WWE dropped serious money to steal him.


No, what's hurt Japanese workers in the past is the fact that a racist old man who only identifies anyone who isn't white based on stereotypes is running the company.

When Taka Michinoku and the gang came from Michinoku Pro, what'd Vince see? 











When JTG and Shad were brought up, Vince immediately saw:











Similar to that, he saw Tony Atlas and saw:











Or how when Albert was being resigned, he heard he had been in Japan and gave this gimmick to him (when Matt Bloom isn't even Asian):











What about Virgil, the black slave to the rich white man, Ted DiBiase? Godfather, the black pimp? Papa Shango, the black witch doctor and voodoo practitioner? The Mexicools, the Mexicans who drove lawnmowers to the ring and wanted to fight the gringos? The Nation of Domination, aka the all black Islamic militant group? Akeem, a white guy who just became black? Kamala, the black savage? Chief Jay Strongbow, who was played by some Italian from Philly? Iron Sheik, the evil Persian? Muhammed Hassan, the Middle Eastern Terrorist? I could go on.

Vince doesn't see Nakamura as unparalleled in terms of charisma or an amazing in ring talent. He sees that he has slanted eyes and can't speak English completely fluently (though he's pretty good), and will base the character he gets on that. Its got nothing to do with the workers, but the idiots in charge of booking and writing for them. 

In the meantime, Dr. Death, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Terry and Dory Funk, AJ Styles, Giant Bernard, Karl Anderson, Johnny Ace, Terry Gordy...did any of them have trouble getting over in Japan? No, because Gedo and Jedo, or Giant Baba, didn't bring in these gaijin and make them look like: 











They booked them as badasses who could really wrestle and fuck people up. And what a shock, it worked. But apparently, Americans are too dumb to get that and need things to be boiled down to a racial level.


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## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

Why are there so many fucking people obsessed over if this was a 5 star match or not? Just enjoy watching something as special as Nak's debut. Fuck star ratings and fuck Dave Meltzer.


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## jcmmnx (Aug 7, 2009)

Joe E Dangerously said:


> I was a little disappointed. Zayn definitely played it safe since he has to wrestle again on sunday.
> 
> Have some of you even seen Nakamura in new japan? This wasnt even close to 5 stars.


Oh FFS I'm done with this thread. I LOVED that this match didn't have finisher kickouts and the usual overkill bullshit.


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## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

KO Bossy said:


> Glad that people are really praising the match. I'll have to give it a watch within the next few days. I find it hard to believe this was 5 stars and the true overall MOTY, considering what WK10 gave us. I've also seen Nakamura perform at his absolute peak against the absolute cream of the crop, so perhaps...I dunno, I just feel sorta doubtful about it being a true 5 star classic. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> I think a lot of the people blown away by it also haven't really watched much Puro, like New Japan since 2012, New Japan in the 90s with all their Junior Heavyweights and Muta, or All Japan in the 90s when they implemented King's Road and performed the greatest wrestling in history. I've seen the best of the best, and my 6th sense is telling me that this isn't quite at that level. Maybe its because Sami has felt really cold since returning, maybe its because its under a WWE label and they hamstring the shit out of their talent, in ring. Who knows? But I'm glad people are taking to Nakamura already. And with good reason, he's a fucking wrestling god.


Nakamura vs Ibushi from Wk9 was a legit 5 star. Half the people commenting have never seen him in new japan but this particular match was around the 4 range. Im assuming thats what Meltzer would give it. Nakamura had no trouble with the cameras or anything so skys the limit for him. 

It was a pretty standard match compared to his other stuff. The crowd was hot. But I doubt you will be blown away since youve already seen him


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## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

jcmmnx said:


> Why are there so many fucking people obsessed over if this was a 5 star match or not? Just enjoy watching something as special as Nak's debut. Fuck star ratings and fuck Dave Meltzer.


It's the same reason I wanted Brooklyn and especially IronWoman to get 5 stars: For it to be recognized as the great moment as it was for all prosperity.

It took PWI and the fan vote to do it instead (IronWoman 2015 MotY, Brooklyn 1st Runner Up).


----------



## hunteraustin (Feb 21, 2009)

Donnie said:


> That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.


please go back and watch it.

This was basically the same as Rock/Hogan (except with 2 guys that could actually work.) in the premise that THE FANS dictated the pace of the match. The match was ok, but it was kicking and punches. No real moves until the end. There was no major climax to the match. Furthermore, there was no real surprise as to who was going to win.
Nakamura was going to win for 1 solid reason. His debut coming into NXT and Zayn was going to the main WWE roster so losing gives Nakamura the rub. So there wasn't really a doubt as to who was going to win.

Solid 3 stars.

The best match IMO was the tag match at the start. Great , Great match.


----------



## Smarky Smark (Sep 2, 2012)

jcmmnx said:


> Why are there so many fucking people obsessed over if this was a 5 star match or not? Just enjoy watching something as special as Nak's debut. Fuck star ratings and fuck Dave Meltzer.


Hey say what you want about the marks, but NEVER EVER disrespect Big Dave.


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

jcmmnx said:


> Joe E Dangerously said:
> 
> 
> > I was a little disappointed. Zayn definitely played it safe since he has to wrestle again on sunday.
> ...


Ive seen plenty of his matches and they dont rely on finisher fests, I can assure you. 

Im going off Meltzers scale because I have a good feel for what he would give it. I never said it was bad. Have you ever seen him before tonight? If not just wait til you see what hes capable of


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

SAMCRO said:


> I know, i mean what else exactly did they need to do for it to be considered a 5* match? A flaming table spot?
> 
> The match was amazing, and of course no matter how good a match is theres always gonna be those few trying to be cool by going against the majority opinion.


Enh. @jcmmnx is right, as long as its great, that's what matters. Shit like star ratings is just something some of us do for fun. 

Its the trolls seriously trying to call this 3 stars or under that are nuts. I haven't even seen it yet and I know that's a lie. If Shinsuke can get a 4 star match out of fucking Bad Luck Fale, the sky is the limit.


----------



## hunteraustin (Feb 21, 2009)

Joe E Dangerously said:


> I was a little disappointed. Zayn definitely played it safe since he has to wrestle again on sunday.
> 
> Have some of you even seen Nakamura in new japan? This wasnt even close to 5 stars. Nxt crowds will chant at headlocks and hammerlocks
> 
> ...



EXACTLY.

They chanted 

"Wrestle forever"

Which is one of the stupidest chants I've ever heard as it LITERALLY makes no sense.


----------



## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

hunteraustin said:


> please go back and watch it.
> 
> This was basically the same as Rock/Hogan (except with 2 guys that could actually work.) in the premise that THE FANS dictated the pace of the match. The match was ok, but it was kicking and punches. No real moves until the end. There was no major climax to the match. Furthermore, there was no real surprise as to who was going to win.


Sometimes, though, that's sufficient, and, without an invested crowd, you don't get the magic that can come out of a moment like that.

It's what made Rock/Hogan a great and historic match, even though, otherwise, it was more than ordinary. Part of it was that the crowd was so invested (and invested for Hogan!!), Rock was intelligent enough to call the audible, work heel, get the W and then turn both him and Hogan back face for the end shenaOxiOxiOxiOxins.

You need that crowd, sometimes, to make it work.


----------



## Leon Beazt (Apr 2, 2016)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> I'm glad that they are having this Nakamura guy go through the rigours of NXT first like any normal rookie. Seeing the colossal failure of A.J Styles at adapting to the WWE match building dynamics on the main roster thus far, it indeed looks to be a very smart move on WWE management and Nakamura's part to have him prove himself at NXT first.


The problem with RAW/Smackdown is NOT the roster. It is the wrestling itself that is awful. The matches are boring, slow, and follow the same patterns. There are barely any counters, one guy will beat the other guy for 5 mins and than the other guy will do the same without any back to back action. You can have Nakamura on NXT for 3 years, move him to RAW and it would be the most pointless ish ever. Guys like Nakamura, AJ, Samoa Joe are top wrestlers who do the talking in the ring. NXT needs to branch off and become its own entity far away from WWE. You can keep your Cenas, Romans, Big Shows on the main rosters for the PG lovers and slow wrestling fans.


----------



## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

hunteraustin said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> They chanted
> 
> ...


It was "Fight Forever".

And it made perfect sense -- the fans were so wrapped in the moment, they never wanted it to end.


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

NXT fans chant at EVERYTHING though. They chant this is awesome during every match, sing songs, and chant during restholds.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Joe E Dangerously said:


> Nakamura vs Ibushi from Wk9 was a legit 5 star. Half the people commenting have never seen him in new japan but this particular match was around the 4 range. Im assuming thats what Meltzer would give it. Nakamura had no trouble with the cameras or anything so skys the limit for him.
> 
> It was a pretty standard match compared to his other stuff. The crowd was hot. But I doubt you will be blown away since youve already seen him


Perfect, exactly the type of rundown I was looking for. Much obliged.

And I 100% agree, Nakamura vs Ibushi from WK9 was a legit 5 stars. Won MOTY for 2015, too, unsurprisingly. His match repertoire from New Japan was godly, with classics against Tanahashi in the 2015 G1 finals, vs Tanahashi at Invasion Attack 2014, vs Okada in the 2014 G1 finals, vs Ibushi in the 2013 G1, vs Goto at Dominion 2015, vs Sakuraba at WK7, vs Marafuji at King of Pro Wrestling 2013, vs Ishii in the 2014 G1, vs Naito in the 2013 G1...gonna be tough to replicate that level of quality with WWE's bullshit.


----------



## Pratchett (Jan 9, 2013)

I thought it was the best match of the night. I haven't seen a lot of Nakamura's matches, but I expected him and Zayn to be able to put on a great one. And I was not disappointed. This is one of those matches that I am going to watch over and over lots of times.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

hunteraustin said:


> Donnie said:
> 
> 
> > That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.
> ...


All kicking and punching until the end? What a load of rubbish, the match was a war and felt legit, more moves don't equal a great match. The tag was good but no way was it a patch on this match.


----------



## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

Joe E Dangerously said:


> NXT fans chant at EVERYTHING though. They chant this is awesome during every match, sing songs, and chant during restholds.


Which is why we, as fans, have to be intelligent enough to find the times that's bullshit, and the times it's valid.

IMODO, at least: This match, it was ALL GOOD AND VALID.


----------



## TreyOcho (May 21, 2015)

Fight forever. Felt tears well up for Zayn's send off. Fought them off for the sake of kayfabe. Amazing, amazing match. Never seen Nakamura before tonight but by Gawd he's all they hyped him up to be.


----------



## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

Leon Beazt said:


> The problem with RAW/Smackdown is NOT the roster. It is the wrestling itself that is awful. The matches are boring, slow, and follow the same patterns. There are barely any counters, one guy will beat the other guy for 5 mins and than the other guy will do the same without any back to back action. You can have Nakamura on NXT for 3 years, move him to RAW and it would be the most pointless ish ever. Guys like Nakamura, AJ, Samoa Joe are top wrestlers who do the talking in the ring. NXT needs to branch off and become its own entity far away from WWE. You can keep your Cenas, Romans, Big Shows on the main rosters for the PG lovers and slow wrestling fans.


Reading this post I can't help but question your perception of what sports entertainment is and how WWE managed to become the only global pro wrestling organization because of it.

WWE isn't built on the foundation of just delivering great matches, far from it..that's not their forte, and that certainly isn't something that has helped them become a global brand. What has helped them is the implementation of the concept of actually building up feuds/programs resulting in engrossing matches for which you're pumped up right from the moment the music of the 1st competitor hits. That's exactly the reason that iconic matches like Hogan-Rock (WM 18) and Rock-Austin (especially WM 17 and 19) would always hold a standing much higher on the roll of honour of wrestling matches than any NJPW match in history, despite the fact that they weren't some sort of technical masterpieces, rather, what those matches managed to do is to catch the fancy of the global audience to such an extent that it was a classic even before the first bell had rung, something which other organizations haven't been even close to replicate on the global stage.

Now, when these competitors come from those disadvantaged backgrounds, most like AJ Styles are usually found wanting. His entire program with two highly superior sports entertainers in The Miz and Chris Jericho illustrates that. You can keep getting incredible cheers at NJPW due to your technical artistry, but the crowd was barely mumbling the A.J STYLES chant even after he has been accorded such a comfortable spot on the show for months now with the other half of the feuds doing most of the heavy work which regards to actually building up matches.


----------



## Natecore (Sep 16, 2013)

All NJPW marks in a tizzy trying to deny the greatness that is Zayn vs Nakamura. The crowd and Naka's entrance help elevate this to GOAT Classic. Sorry fellas, Nakamura looked like a bigger star than he ever has before tonight in DALLAS, TEXAS of all places.This match is to be celebrated for everything that it is, was and forever will be!

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: out of 5 :mark:s

and that post match send off for Zayn. Perfection.


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

Wrestlefire said:


> Joe E Dangerously said:
> 
> 
> > NXT fans chant at EVERYTHING though. They chant this is awesome during every match, sing songs, and chant during restholds.
> ...


Agreed they loved this match the most. And the tag team match. But they always take things overboard is what Im saying


----------



## thelegendkiller (May 23, 2004)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> I'm glad that they are having this Nakamura guy go through the rigours of NXT first like any normal rookie. Seeing the colossal failure of A.J Styles at adapting to the WWE match building dynamics on the main roster thus far, it indeed looks to be a very smart move on WWE management and Nakamura's part to have him prove himself at NXT first.


Bro, that wasn't a really smart troll.

I would give you credit when its subtle, but calling AJ Styles a colossal failure is LOL worthy.

Dude has more than lived up to his reputation and is quite over as a babyface.


----------



## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

thelegendkiller said:


> Bro, that wasn't a really smart troll.
> 
> I would give you credit when its subtle, but calling AJ Styles a colossal failure is LOL worthy.
> 
> Dude has more than lived up to his reputation and is quite over as a babyface.


How?

The crowd was barely mumbling A J STYLES a week back despite the fact that he has been accorded to perform to his absolute strengths for a full 2 months now with two incredible sports entertainers in The Miz and Jericho carrying the entirety of the mantle of building up matches and putting Styles over.

A.J Styles has been a major disappointment thus far.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

That match was so sick!


----------



## Rookie of the Year (Mar 26, 2015)

Wrestlefire said:


> It was "Fight Forever".
> 
> And it made perfect sense -- the fans were so wrapped in the moment, they never wanted it to end.


The fact that the chant was "FIGHT forever" says it all. That match was a fight. Started as a respectful wrestling match, with both guys playing to the crowd a little and acknowledging their insane reaction, not fully committing, then Nak said "fuck this" and started launching kicks. From there, the aggression escalated, with Zayn's pride in not wanting to be Nak's stepping stone leading him to taking the best from the King of Strong Style and responding in kind.

Elements like Sami going for the Helluva Kick out of nowhere, rather than the big build up, he tries to take Shinsuke's head off early in a move than was both aggressive and a touch desperate. Then the "yay-yay" striking sequence, which most wrestlers do briefly simply for the reaction, but Zayn and Nakamura kept launching bombs until neither could barely stand.

I need to give it a second watch, but I'll say this- I've seen Nakamura twice before, on the last two Wrestle Kingdom shows. I thought he was cool, different and very talented, but I hardly saw enough of him to have a blinding fandom. And Sami Zayn, I liked a lot pre-injury but felt he had been performing a considerable level below his 2013-15 work, this match changed that (the idea that he was holding back, as I've seen a couple post, stuns me). So, without a blinding fandom bias at this match simply taking place, I have to say that it looked like 20 minutes of flawless pro wrestling.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

hunteraustin said:


> please go back and watch it.
> 
> This was basically the same as Rock/Hogan (except with 2 guys that could actually work.) in the premise that THE FANS dictated the pace of the match. The match was ok, but it was kicking and punches. No real moves until the end. There was no major climax to the match. Furthermore, there was no real surprise as to who was going to win.
> Nakamura was going to win for 1 solid reason. His debut coming into NXT and Zayn was going to the main WWE roster so losing gives Nakamura the rub. So there wasn't really a doubt as to who was going to win.
> ...


I just went back and watched it, still a 5Star match.


----------



## Joe E Dangerously (Jan 31, 2013)

Nakamuras finisher looked sick in the camera shot. 

This guy is going to have some amazing matches. I hope they find a way to get him on the main roster as a part time main eventer like Brocks schedule


----------



## Mr. I (Nov 23, 2012)

Nakamura already has two contenders for MOTY, in two separate companies, no less, with vs AJ Styles at WK10, and vs Zayn tonight.


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Jbardo said:


> All kicking and punching until the end? What a load of rubbish, the match was a war and felt legit, more moves don't equal a great match. The tag was good but no way was it a patch on this match.


Also most of Nakamura's arsenal is strikes, thats his style, he has some cool moves like the release regal plex, the spinning cross armbreaker, the backstabber, the sleeper suplex. But for the most part the majority of his offense is strikes.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Another Takeover, another Sam Zayn match of the decade candidate.


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^ (Mar 15, 2014)

Incredible, easily the best WWE match this year, for me anyway. The best possible way to debut Nakamura and Zayn got such an awesome NXT send off too. That crowd was great. I haven't enjoyed a match that much in a long time.

People get far too caught up on things like star ratings, it was a tremendous match anyway you spin it.


----------



## Leon Beazt (Apr 2, 2016)

CycLoNe_AttAcK_ said:


> Reading this post I can't help but question your perception of what sports entertainment is and how WWE managed to become the only global pro wrestling organization because of it.
> 
> WWE isn't built on the foundation of just delivering great matches, far from it..that's not their forte, and that certainly isn't something that has helped them become a global brand. What has helped them is the implementation of the concept of actually building up feuds/programs resulting in engrossing matches for which you're pumped up right from the moment the music of the 1st competitor hits. That's exactly the reason that iconic matches like Hogan-Rock (WM 18) and Rock-Austin (especially WM 17 and 19) would always hold a standing much higher on the roll of honour of wrestling matches than any NJPW match in history, despite the fact that they weren't some sort of technical masterpieces, rather, what those matches managed to do is to catch the fancy of the global audience to such an extent that it was a classic even before the first bell had rung, something which other organizations haven't been even close to replicate on the global stage.
> 
> Now, when these competitors come from those disadvantaged backgrounds, most like AJ Styles are usually found wanting. His entire program with two highly superior sports entertainers in The Miz and Chris Jericho illustrates that. You can keep getting incredible cheers at NJPW due to your technical artistry, but the crowd was barely mumbling the A.J STYLES chant even after he has been accorded such a comfortable spot on the show for months now with the other half of the feuds doing most of the heavy work which regards to actually building up matches.


You mean like having Roman not turn heel even though he gets booed out of the building?? Cus yea that seems to be working great. It doesnt change the fact that matches on RAW and Smackdown are boring, repetitive, one sided affairs for long periods of the match with no counters, etc... Bo Dallas can put on a decent match on NXT but is a bigger jobber than The Brookyln Brawler on the main roster. Face it the main roster is lacking because it is an inferior wrestling spectacle. Id rather watch NXT all year long than the boring predictable ish on RAW. But go ahead keep watching your predictable PG garbage to keep Vince happy.


----------



## CycLoNe_AttAcK_ (Feb 20, 2013)

Leon Beazt said:


> You mean like having Roman not turn heel even though he gets booed out of the building?? Cus yea that seems to be working great. It doesnt change the fact that matches on RAW and Smackdown are boring, repetitive, one sided affairs for long periods of the match with no counters, etc... Bo Dallas can put on a decent match on NXT but is a bigger jobber than The Brookyln Brawler on the main roster. Face it the main roster is lacking because it is an inferior wrestling spectacle. Id rather watch NXT all year long than the boring predictable ish on RAW. But go ahead keep watching your predictable PG garbage to keep Vince happy.


Absolutely, because the hostile reactions towards Reigns are in no way a concrete representation of his wider global standing, in which he annihilates competition..just have a look at any relevant global social media parameters.

Also, great build up + compelling matches with unabridged crowd participation >>> 0 build up + great technical masterpieces for me any day of the week, and it has always been that way in the WWE environment.

Plus, don't quite understand what's your point with PG here.. NXT is also rated PG, ain't it?


----------



## elo (Oct 25, 2006)

They nailed it, no backstory, no heat and they knocked it out of the ball park by telling us plenty in just 20 mins of fighting in the ring. Zayn looked devastated to be leaving NXT........I don't blame him, he's been boring as all hell on the main roster when the guy can work ANY style of match and has plenty of charisma and has a GREAT backstory with Owens that should be exploited on the main show but it's poorly explained.

Both guys should be congratulated, sadly there's basically zero chance of Vince allowing Nakamura to work that style on the main show so appreciate every second of his time on NXT. (expect him to be called up within 5 months)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Amazing how some NXT performers are more over than alot of the top current main roster guys during the Road to WM, of all time period. Embarrassing.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

elo said:


> They nailed it, no backstory, no heat and they knocked it out of the ball park by telling us plenty in just 20 mins of fighting in the ring. Zayn looked devastated to be leaving NXT........I don't blame him, he's been boring as all hell on the main roster when the guy can work ANY style of match and has plenty of charisma and has a GREAT backstory with Owens that should be exploited on the main show but it's poorly explained.
> 
> Both guys should be congratulated, sadly there's basically zero chance of Vince allowing Nakamura to work that style on the main show so appreciate every second of his time on NXT. (expect him to be called up within 5 months)


Owens, Rollins and cesaro and AJ have great matches under Vince. Nakamura should be fine


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Glad that people are really praising the match. I'll have to give it a watch within the next few days. I find it hard to believe this was 5 stars and the true overall MOTY, considering what WK10 gave us. I've also seen Nakamura perform at his absolute peak against the absolute cream of the crop, so perhaps...I dunno, I just feel sorta doubtful about it being a true 5 star classic. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> I think a lot of the people blown away by it also haven't really watched much Puro, like New Japan since 2012, New Japan in the 90s with all their Junior Heavyweights and Muta, or All Japan in the 90s when they implemented King's Road and performed the greatest wrestling in history. I've seen the best of the best, and my 6th sense is telling me that this isn't quite at that level. Maybe its because Sami has felt really cold since returning, maybe its because its under a WWE label and they hamstring the shit out of their talent, in ring. Who knows? But I'm glad people are taking to Nakamura already. And with good reason, he's a fucking wrestling god.


Dude, come on.

Now I love me some old AJPW as much as the next guy, in fact the last match I gave 5 stars to was Funk/Hansen from '83.

I already watched Nak/Zayn twice and I gave it the full 5 as well. Not everything has to be a deeply psychological, meaty storytelling 50-minute 90's Four Pillars match, or a bloody, gritty 10-minute Lawler/Funk brawl. One can appreciate one style more than another, certainly (I'm no big Lucha fan, for example), but if you're able to appreciate the particularities of a style, then any match wrestled in that way can become a 5-star match to you.

To me, the way that Nak puts a WWE (even if NXT) crowd eating from the palm of his hand just after his entrance, the way that the crowd reacted to every single strike and move done by both men and the amazing chants, along with the match itself (Zayn portraying the "heart and soul" of NXT in his final match there, going toe-to-toe with the King of Strong Style in unexpectedly stiff strike exchanges, which he is not even known for, he simply just wanted to prove to one of the biggest stars in the world today and possibly the best one that his turf, NXT, can compete with anyone out there) truly makes this a perfect match for me.

Edit: BTW, I don't mean I haven't given a match 5 stars since 1983 :lol just the last match I watched (before Zayn/Nak) that I gave the full 5 to.


----------



## Griselda (Feb 3, 2009)

ShowStopper said:


> Amazing how some NXT performers are more over than alot of the top current main roster guys during the Road to WM, of all time period. Embarrassing.


Considering they have sensible booking and more freedom, it's not surprising.


----------



## phreddie spaghetti (Aug 20, 2012)

If anyone had actually watched Nakamura before tonight then you would know this match was only a sample of what the King of Strong Style can do. ***1/4 at best. The thing I don't get is that TNA & ROH have been putting on these kind of cards (mostly better) for years and no one gave a shit, but put the mighty wwe logo in the corner and everyone's on their knees ready for a mouthful. Unnecessary "this is awesome" "holy shit" and standing ovations when nothing was happening. This crowd would rather be the show than watch the show. 

Nothing against Generico, but in no way did he top Styles/Nakamura at WrestleKingdom.


----------



## Bullydully (Jun 28, 2011)

5 FUCKING STARS. 

Anyone that tells me I am "wrong" can fuck right off.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

phreddie spaghetti said:


> If anyone had actually watched Nakamura before tonight then you would know this match was only a sample of what the King of Strong Style can do. ***1/4 at best. The thing I don't get is that TNA & ROH have been putting on these kind of cards (mostly better) for years and no one gave a shit, but put the mighty wwe logo in the corner and everyone's on their knees ready for a mouthful. Unnecessary "this is awesome" "holy shit" and standing ovations when nothing was happening. This crowd would rather be the show than watch the show.
> 
> Nothing against Generico, but in no way did he top Styles/Nakamura at WrestleKingdom.


I have seen some of Nakamuras best matches including v Styles from a couple of months ago and this was close to them and certainly much better than ***1/4 IMO.


----------



## tailhook (Feb 23, 2014)

Martins said:


> To me, the way that Nak puts a WWE (even if NXT) crowd eating from the palm of his hand just after his entrance, the way that the crowd reacted to every single strike and move done by both men and the amazing chants,


Did you see the crowd? It was hardly a WWE crowd. NXT/indie crowd? Sure. 90% white male. Trying to pick out of the crowd the one or two women that got dragged there by their boyfriend was hilarious. People largely either went to that show alone, or with bros.

Main roster? You get a lot more women and kids and deep heartfelt holdfests are not appreciated in a lot of towns. There is a reason that stuff largely gets yawns on RAW.

That's not to say NXT doesn't have its place with the base, but its like 4 shows a year where the faithful can congregate and gleefully overrate matches that wouldn't play well at all to a more diverse crowd.

And just to be clear.. Zayn-Nak 5 stars :>.


----------



## BoJackson (Aug 30, 2012)

ShowStopper said:


> Amazing how some NXT performers are more over than alot of the top current main roster guys during the Road to WM, of all time period. Embarrassing.


Yeah, that Sami Zayn is super over on Raw.


----------



## MECCA1 (Nov 5, 2012)

Zayn and nakamura was fuckin amazing, and was everything I expected it to be.. I remember a thread made here about his signing and people were shitting on nakamura without even watching his repertoire of matches, just ignorant.

I hope we get nakamura vs Cesaro, owens, somoa joe, rollins, orton, LESNAR, kenta, harper, Syles again, hell even HHH and Cena .. this man is main event material without a doubt


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

tailhook said:


> Did you see the crowd? It was hardly a WWE crowd. NXT/indie crowd? Sure. 90% white male. Trying to pick out of the crowd the one or two women that got dragged there by their boyfriend was hilarious. People largely either went to that show alone, or with bros.
> 
> Main roster? You get a lot more women and kids and deep heartfelt holdfests are not appreciated in a lot of towns. There is a reason that stuff largely gets yawns on RAW.
> 
> ...


Certainly right; NXT crowds are very different from RAW crowds.

Then again, stuff like this wouldn't even get to RAW because they can't book a proper wrestling show.

Really, I'm just happy to have seen this under a WWE banner, even if it is NXT. Just a shame they COULD do better on the main show, they just don't want to. 

All in all, I just want some good wrestling; and I got it. Also thanks to that crowd


----------



## tbp_tc12 (Jul 23, 2009)

Wow the condescending attitude of "Anyone who is giving this 5* hasn't watched Shinsuke in NJPW. This is not his best. 3*" as if the other people responding have never seen a Shinsuke Nakamura match before. It's not that difficult to go watch; NJPW World is only 999 yen.

I've seen every major Nakamura NJPW match since 2014. I've seen both of his classics with Ibushi. I've seen a lot of 5* NJPW matches.

With that said, Zayn vs Nak was a 5 star match. The atmosphere. The fludity of the moves. The next-level psychology. Nak's charisma perfectly translating to WWE. Zayn playing his role as the fan favorite who isn't the fan favorite in this match and his obvious resentment at playing "second fiddle" in the match. The delightful counters and striking. The clearly positive and appreciative chants by the crowd. The standing ovation. 

This match was perfect and everything I want in wrestling. Full boat from me and a match I'll rewatch for a long time.


----------



## Oneiros (Feb 16, 2014)




----------



## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

Easily the best match I've seen live.


----------



## Oneiros (Feb 16, 2014)




----------



## BKKsoulcity (Apr 29, 2011)

Fight forever chants and the fact that the crowd was a legit 50/50 split was amazing


----------



## Roach13 (Feb 3, 2004)

*****


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

tbp_tc12 said:


> Wow the condescending attitude of "Anyone who is giving this 5* hasn't watched Shinsuke in NJPW. This is not his best. 3*" as if the other people responding have never seen a Shinsuke Nakamura match before. It's not that difficult to go watch; NJPW World is only 999 yen.
> 
> I've seen every major Nakamura NJPW match since 2014. I've seen both of his classics with Ibushi. I've seen a lot of 5* NJPW matches.
> 
> ...


Yeah i agree with everything you said. Also some was saying Nakamura vs Ibushi was a 5* match from WK9 and his match with Zayn wasn't, i just went back and watched the WK9 match and yeah i'd say it is a 5*. But Nakamura really didn't do anything that different than he did in his match Zayn in that match. 

Ibushi did some cool spots like the moonsault to the outside, the phoenix splash, the standing corkscrew moonsault, but i wouldn't say the match was that much better than the one with Zayn. At least on Nakamura's end he didn't do all that much different. So i don't know why that match is held up so high by some and yet those same people refuse to say his match with Zayn was on par with it.

You know if this match took place in NJPW those same ones saying this is nowhere near a 5* match would be praising it calling it a definite 5* classic MOTY. Just because it took place in WWE they think its some how lesser, even though both guys put everything they had into the match and held nothing back.


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Strong MOTY candidate for WWE's end. Showings like these are exactly why I'm a Sami Zayn mark.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

****3/4


----------



## Drago (Jul 29, 2014)

Donnie said:


> That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.


With no build-up? Ok, so I've never been more happy with being clueless in my entire life.


----------



## jim courier (Apr 5, 2013)

Haven't watched the match but these guys could take a dump in the ring and the fans would still chant this is awesome. At the end of the day these guys can have as many 4 star matches as they want it isn't going to make wrestling popular or cool again.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Whats sad is that the "big stunt" at mania might be the talking point of next week not this match.


----------



## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

musclehead said:


> Whats sad is that the "big stunt" at mania might be the talking point of next week not this match.


This isn't "Wrestling is real to me, dammit!".

This is "I know what Shane would do, and I'm scared he might try it!!"

The result is predetermined, how we get there may be very dangerous.

Don't do it, Shane. You don't have to.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Drago said:


> With no build-up? Ok, so I've never been more happy with being clueless in my entire life.


Not every match needs build, sometimes two of the very best in the world can go out and steal the show and people will get invested. Tonight was proof of that.


----------



## DoolieNoted (Dec 5, 2015)

Excellent debut and a solid 4* match considering there was no feud or any backstory. Hopefully they get a chance to work together a lot more and have some sort of 3 falls/iron man match on the MR some time.


----------



## EraOfAwesome (Nov 25, 2010)

Iron Man said:


> Almost shed a tear seeing how this is Zayn's last match. Didn't expect him to retire so young


lol wut?


----------



## BORT (Oct 5, 2009)

4.25/5. Amazing amazing debut for Nakamura. I don't know how much better of a debut he could've had. Now don't fuck him up WWE.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Braylyt said:


> The guys are just really, really over.. match itself was ok. 3 stars at best.


Your anti-smark gimmick is lame as fuck.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

BoJackson said:


> Yeah, that Sami Zayn is super over on Raw.


Since when is Zayn a "top current main roster guy"?


----------



## LiterallyNothing (Aug 13, 2015)

BoJackson said:


> Yeah, that Sami Zayn is super over on Raw.


He would be if they actually tried with him instead of "So, here is Zayn and well...thats it"


----------



## Soul Man Danny B (Dec 30, 2013)

The work was excellent, but the crowd heat was immense. There are *very* few WWE matches that get that kind of heat these days.

Easy ****1/2. The people who say *** should be banned from this forum, because they either don't understand wrestling or are trolls.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Natecore said:


> All NJPW marks in a tizzy trying to deny the greatness that is Zayn vs Nakamura. The crowd and Naka's entrance help elevate this to GOAT Classic. Sorry fellas, Nakamura looked like a bigger star than he ever has before tonight in DALLAS, TEXAS of all places.This match is to be celebrated for everything that it is, was and forever will be!
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: out of 5 :mark:s
> 
> and that post match send off for Zayn. Perfection.


I agree with this tbh. I am a HUGE NJPW fan but this match was definitely 5 stars for me. Lets face it Nakamura is so talented that he can go to like 4 stars in his sleep anyway, and Zayn is one of the top in ring guys in the world too. I cant really think of much to criticise about the in ring work itself and I think on top of that this is one of those times where you need to take into account other non in ring factors that enhanced the match itself - ie the crowd that went fucking CRAZY for it, the sheer surreal spectacle of Nakamura turning up in a WWE ring, and Zayns send off. It was just special.


----------



## wkc_23 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ummmm, yeah.. Easily the MOTY. I wish it could of went longer, because it was so great. 

Also that wasn't wrestling, that was just a fight. One word to describe it..... INTENSE.


----------



## Drago (Jul 29, 2014)

Donnie said:


> Not every match needs build, sometimes two of the very best in the world can go out and steal the show and people will get invested. Tonight was proof of that.


Too bad I wasn't one of them. But yeah, I can understand where are you coming from. It would felt better for me if I was a huge mark of one of those guys (see Bayley / Asuka).


----------



## The Amazon (Sep 24, 2015)

Mainboy said:


> In all of my time of watching wrestling. That match has made me literally trying to hold back the tears for the first time ever. One of the best matches I've ever seen.
> 
> Could watch that for 4 hours on Sunday over wrestlemania p.


Tears? come on man


----------



## Unorthodox (Jan 8, 2013)

I had never seen Nakamura before tonight apart from a few highlights and clips but as soon as he walked out and started doing all those camp as fuck antics I thought what the hell is this idiot doing... Then he stepped in to the ring and blew my fucking mind! 1 of the best debut matches of all time easily I can see why he's called the king of strong style he makes all of his offence look so real and vicious which not many wrestlers can do really, Fantastic debut I'm looking forward to seeing him again. I can see why a lot people think Vince won't like him though he doesn't seem like a Vince McMahon type wrestler at all but thankfully he's in NXT were he can't get his dirty mitts on him.


----------



## FROSTY (Jan 22, 2015)

*Instant classic! I just wish they hadn't messed with the Bomaye Knee, but I learn to deal. It was a 4+ star match would even go as far to say 4.5 stars, with almost no build before hand I wont go above that score. However I can't fault anyone who believes it deserves the perfect rating.*


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

An absolutely outstanding match.. Match of the year without a doubt, and honestly, when I think about it, I think as far as WWE matches go, only Bryan/HHH from WM30 + Austin/Bret from WM13 are better. Hats off to both Nakamura & Zayn.


----------



## Drago (Jul 29, 2014)

I will watch this entire match again later today, I think I've missed something and maybe I'll enjoy it a lot more.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Fight forever.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Dr. Middy said:


> And another thing worthy of note? Usually it takes some adjustment to the WWE style considering they use a hard camera and all, and I don't think New Japan works that way.
> 
> Nakamura had ZERO trouble finding that camera. And when he did, the guy basically eye fucked it.
> 
> He defintely is the real deal.


NJPW doesn't really work that way, but Nakamura does. His character was basically designed as the one successful WWE Japanese wrestler. His camera work was very good in NJPW, but it did at times seem that he wanted to play more with the camera than they wanted him to.

Though I doubt WWE will let him keep drilling anyone to the face like he did Zayne. I seem to recall after Zayne kicked a few mudholes in Nakamura's head, that Nakamura responded with a pretty close to legit punch to his face. Though with all the violence....how the hell could we tell for sure? They seemed to basically agree to beat the hell out of each other and die if necessary.


----------



## twice19 (Jan 2, 2016)

It was a fantastic match. Top 10 this year. I think Nakamura vs AJ was better. This match I think a typical raw crowd probably wouldn't get it, and JBL and Cole would ruin it. But it was without a doubt a world class match.


----------



## Chief of the Lynch Mob (Aug 22, 2014)

Unbelievable match. Everything i was hoping it was going to be. I'd be very surprised if we see a better match from WWE this year in all honesty. The two of them absolutely killed it.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Amazing match. Best match of the night where almost every match was amazing. That itself says something about this one. 

I feel sorry for Wrestlemania and WWE roster. There is just no way in hell they will be able to top this show.


----------



## Mr Poifect (Apr 10, 2013)

They reminded me of the Angle/Benoit/Jericho stiff fests that I used to enjoy.


----------



## thequestion102 (Mar 31, 2016)

The crowd was hot but the gear they went to in order to match the atmosphere these guys deserved was heavy. They let Nakamura be himself and it was crazy good. He's made for the WWE. His sense of timing and cadence for spots and counts was otherworldly here. He had the crowd in the arena and at home eating out of his hand. Zayn executed to perfection too. He took some stiff as fuck offense and showed off a crisp intensity that channeled Generico. It was funny considering these guys matches with Ibushi, him in the arena watching this, and just how amazing it was.

I think 5 stars is a stretch but this match transcended the ring work. That was top notch stuff. 5-10 extra minutes probably gets it higher marks? At the same time it's not a stretch and is probably appropriate when you consider everything.


----------



## CaptainLantern77 (Jan 11, 2014)

Absolute worldy of a match. I don't care if Shane jumps off the cell or Ambrose & Brock have dueling chainsaw attacks. Nothing is coming close to Zayn/Nakamura this weekend.


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Some of the comments saying 3*/4* at best are seriously deluded, god knows what you were expecting from the match, someone to die maybe.

The match in my opinion was a classic, by far the best match in the entire WWE this year and most definitely a MOTY candidate. Seeing Okada vs Tanahashi & Nakamura vs Styles from NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 10, which are two of the best matches this year, Nakamura vs Zayn was definitely on par with those two matches if not better.

I'd definitely give it ****1/2 if not more, it was superb.


----------



## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

Those "Fight forever!" chants.:banderas


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

What I also loved about the match was Zayn really laying into Nak with real aggression, added to the match big time.


----------



## Crowl (Feb 22, 2010)

Sarcasm1 said:


> I heard he is getting paid like a main eventer. No way I see someone that gets paid that much staying in "developmental" long. I say somewhere between Summerslam-Rumble.


It has been mentioned in previous threads when he first signed that they probably think keeping him on NXT for 6 months or so will be more profitable for WWE than moving him up to the main roster quickly since it will help sales of the network to Japanese audiences.

As far as the scoring arguments, why not compromise and declare it a 5* debut rather than a 5* match? :grin2:


----------



## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

CaptainLantern77 said:


> Absolute worldy of a match. I don't care if Shane jumps off the cell or* Ambrose & Brock have dueling chainsaw attacks.* Nothing is coming close to Zayn/Nakamura this weekend.


My god, now that would be amazing.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

This match, this thread, and some of the posts here are a prime example of how NXT has some awful hype culture in which biased marks get to dictate everything through their bias.

I am not here to tell you the match was bad and I am certainly not here to tell you that you're not allowed to enjoy it, but "about to cry because it was so good"? I get there are moments in wrestling that make people emotional but to shed a tear because a match was good is pretty fucking weird, in honesty. If you felt the raw emotion after the match where it was evident both Zayn and Nakamura wanted to face eachother so much and they actually had such deep respect for eachother, okay. But for the match itself? That *screams* biased mark.


Posts like this are the worst too:


Donnie said:


> That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.


I'm not a fan of Nakamura therefore I'm not going to rate the match on awhole-nother level because I'm excited to see a guy I like on a show I like facing a guy I like in a dream match I want to see.
I wasn't a fan of Cesaro when I first saw him, but when he wrestled Tyson Kidd on Superstars one time I was instantly a fan because he impressed me. I wasn't a fan of Sami Zayn when I first started watching but he sold me with a fantastic match against Cesaro which I think is one of the best NXT matches ever. Same with Owens, I didn't like him coming in on a wave of momentum like everyone else, and getting over because of it without showing his talent on the show, but he impressed me time and time again and he had good matches, great promos, and made me interested and enjoy a Cena match.


What I'm saying is, I didn't like those guys and what sold me was their good work ethic. I didn't like them but I came to when I saw a match that I thought was great.

This Zayn vs. Nakamura doesn't even crack the top 5 NXT matches I've ever seen. Am I literally unable to, according to Donnie and the (so far) 26 people who liked his post, say that the match was *not* 5 stars without being labelled as "deluded" when realistically the only reason you'd give it a mark equal to what people believe HBK vs. Taker is, is because you like the guys?


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

You know, going into this event, I thought Bayley vs. Asuka would be the MOTN. I though Zayn vs. Nakamura would be good but not live up to everyone’s hype. I was underselling the match.

And then the match was over. And then I slapped myself. I’ve never really seen a WWE match like that where they just beat the shit out of each other. Nakamura is a such unique wrestler. His offense doesn’t have a lot of “moves.” But he has so many kicks, knees, punches, elbows, etc. and does them in so many different ways. And Zayn was able to look just as good.

And for a face vs. face match, the crowd didn’t pick a side. Both men were loved by the crowd and it really added to the match. The “Fight Forever” chant made me mark. Not gonna try to say it was 4 stars, 4.5 stars, 5 stars, or whatever. Just gonna admire how awesome that was.


----------



## Armani (Aug 22, 2014)

It was a great match. Glad they let Nakamura be himself, and Zayn as usual giving NXT the best matches of NXT short history. It's sad that Zayn isn't giving enough credit, if it wasn't for him NXT wouldn't have been NXT, the guy gives it all to this brand, he's the real face of NXT not Finn Balor. I wouldn't rate the match because it would be unfair as it was exactly what I expected it to be, and they delivered, I couldn't ask for more.


----------



## Oakesy (Apr 2, 2012)

I genuinely think that is the greatest match I have ever watched. I could watch them go for four hours to replace Reignsamania.


----------



## Klee (Oct 28, 2011)

The match was fucking glorious and everything I'd hoped it would be, thing is I was so excited I was worried the match wouldn't live up to my hype. It was definitely a dream match for me and from the moment Nakamura side stepped the first collar and elbow I knew it was going to be great. Both Zayn and Nakamura can evoke such emotion I was so drawn in to it I literally had chills the entire time. 

Will for sure watch a few more times during the weekend I'm sure. 

FIGHT FOREVER! :mark:


----------



## Venomous_Viper (Oct 27, 2011)

The only thing I could think about during that match (despite the fact of how awesome it was) was how sad I am that Daniel Bryan is retired and CM Punk is gone, man the matches we could've had at WWE.... 

I know Nakamura is 36 but I hope we get to see a lot of him in the next few years


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

TD Stinger said:


> And then the match was over. And then I slapped myself. I?ve never really seen a WWE match like that where they just beat the shit out of each other. Nakamura is a such unique wrestler. His offense doesn?t have a lot of ?moves.? But he has so many kicks, knees, punches, elbows, etc. and does them in so many different ways. And Zayn was able to look just as good.
> 
> .


Good point on the Nakamura moveset, it's the variety of ways he hits people that make it awesome to watch, he doesn't need to have loads of moves.


----------



## Mugging of Cena (Jul 29, 2014)

Only seen two Nakamura matches prior and both were six man tags on ROH TV tapings and both times he was opposite guys who I'm big fans of, so I really didn't get the hype. But last night, all hyperbole aside, was one of the best matches, no, fights, I've ever seen.


----------



## Punt (Nov 4, 2014)

How often in life do things live up to the hype? This match did.

Fuck stars, I don't need to rate it. I had high expectations and wasn't disappointed.


----------



## sillymunkee (Dec 28, 2006)

Fuck stars this was match of my life and I've been watching since christ was a cowboy. Why do they continue to do this to themselves, #cancelmania because what's the point now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*WOW, WHAT A MATCH!!!!!!!!! THE STRIKES WERE SO STIFF!!!!!!!!! 

3 MINUTES OF THROWN ELBOWS :woo
THE BLOODY NOSE :woo
NAKAMURA'S KICK TO COUNTER ZAYN'S DDT :woo

I AM CLAPPING IN MY HOUSE!!!! THEY CAME TO BEAT THE HELL OUT OF EACH OTHER AND THAT'S WHAT I LOVE TO SEE!!!! THAT'S GREAT WRESTLING!!!!*


----------



## Drago (Jul 29, 2014)

@Donnie 

You were kinda right, I enjoyed it a lot more on a second viewing. Maybe I was too tired last night or something. :draper2


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Donnie said:


> That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.


This. I'll even give leeway for 4.5. The rest of you bastards? Fuck off.

Match was fucking amazing.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I hadn't seen a Nakamura match since 2010, when I had enough time to watch multiple companies at the same time, He was always considered one of the best in the world, and I am so glad the first match I saw of him in 6 years was vs Sami. Sami keeps topping himself at Takeovers, vs Cesaro, vs Neville and vs Nakamura now are truly some of the best of the past decade.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Drago said:


> @Donnie
> 
> You were kinda right, I enjoyed it a lot more on a second viewing. Maybe I was too tired last night or something. :draper2












Every once in a while I get something right. Glad you enjoyed it brother.


----------



## WalkingInMemphis (Jul 7, 2014)

Reotor said:


> This match reminds me why I love wrestling so much.
> It was so fucking good, I swear to you guys I was literally watching this with tears, I was sobbing like a little girl.
> 
> This match also increased my intense hatred of WWE main product, I cant fathom how this is the same company.


I was almost at the 'tears' point. Like seriously. This was fucking epic. :kd

roud

Your move, WrestleMania....


----------



## BlackoutLAS (Jan 2, 2015)

almostfamous said:


> People trying to act cool an undersell this as a 3* match.
> 
> This is an instant classic and a 5* match. I've watched it twice and couldn't find a fault with it.


Anyone who dosent share your exact opinion is 'trying to act cool'? Jesus Christ how ignorant are you?

I'll give the match 4 and a 1/2 stars. Would've been full if it actually had a story.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Your anti-smark gimmick is lame as fuck.


Different opinions are tough for you to handle for you I see. Pretty narrow-minded innit

It's cool that you liked it buddy, not everyone did.

When you calm your tits and watch it back, you'll realise that besides their overness there really was nothing special about the match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Braylyt said:


> Different opinions are tough for you to handle for you I see. Pretty narrow-minded innit
> 
> It's cool that you liked it buddy, not everyone did.
> 
> When you calm your tits and watch it back, you'll realise that besides their overness there really was nothing special about the match.


If you are going to pose contrarian, at least give an indepth analysis of why you think that way instead of being the degrading _ballbag_ that I've seen from you in other posts. Because you know, there are people that would respond to reason as long as it isn't nonsense and dick-waving.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Braylyt said:


> Different opinions are tough for you to handle for you I see. Pretty narrow-minded innit
> 
> It's cool that you liked it buddy, not everyone did.
> 
> When you calm your tits and watch it back, you'll realise that besides their overness there really was nothing special about the match.


Different opinions are absolutely fine. Your anti-smark "shit on anything the IWC tends to like" stuff seems to be such a commonly reoccurring theme in your posts (the ones ive seen anyway) that it comes across more like troll schtick than genuine opinion though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That was one of the best matches that i've seen. Sami Zayn's selling is just awesome.


----------



## Bomaye (Apr 2, 2016)

To be honest, this reaction is pretty much what a lot of Nakamura fans and I expected going in. I'm guessing that most of the people rating this a 5/5 haven't seen a Nakamura match before and his style was fresh and exciting for them.

If you are a NJPW viewer and have seen lots of Nakamura matches then you'll know that this isn't the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Nakamura. This was nowhere near the quality of his matches against the likes of AJ Styles, Kota Ibushi and Hiroshi Tanahashi.

It was a very good match and I'd give it a solid 4/5. The action was great but they weren't able to tell a story in the ring because of the disruptive fans and Sami looked off in places as he appeared very afraid when it came to Nakamura's strikes and protected himself so much that it looked like he was blocking the strikes. There was also a moment near the end of the match where Sami awkwardly stood up to take the Bomaye which looked very awkward.

To say that this is any less than say a 3.5 or higher than a 4.5 is ridiculous and I feel that the 5 star ratings are because of the names involved and the hype surrounding Nakamura. I also wonder if these people have actually seen great 5 star quality matches (Brock vs. Angle, Owen vs. Bret, Shawn vs. Bret, Okada vs. Tanahashi, Taker vs. Shawn, Joe vs Punk) or if they're new to wrestling and are so used to crap that anything better than a match on the typical WWE PPV is The Godfather of wrestling matches. I think it's sad that people use wrestler's names to determine which matches are great or not. A good example would be Brock vs. Punk which is one of the best matches I've ever seen in the WWE. Of course since this was back when a lot of Indy fans hated Lesnar because he was a part-timer and they called him Botch Lesnar and other ridiculous names, the match went over people's heads. 

Anyway looking forward to seeing Nakamura's other matches in WWE. Hopefully we get real strong style matches between him, Samoa Joe and Brock Lesnar soon which have the possibility of being true 5 star classics.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Some people can't wait to chip in on a match that people love and say "it was never 5 stars" it's like they get a kick out of trying to bring it down.

Anyway just about to rewatch, can't wait.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Bomaye said:


> To be honest, this reaction is pretty much what a lot of Nakamura fans and I expected going in. I'm guessing that most of the people rating this a 5/5 haven't seen a Nakamura match before and his style was fresh and exciting for them.
> 
> If you are a NJPW viewer and have seen lots of Nakamura matches then you'll know that this isn't the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Nakamura. This was nowhere near the quality of his matches against the likes of AJ Styles, Kota Ibushi and Hiroshi Tanahashi.
> 
> ...


CAn get behind this and did until you mentioned Hart Michaels as a five star and namedropped Godfather to degrade anyone who thought highly of the match.

It is good to know that there are matches where he has looked even better as I haven't watched NJPW and that we can expect better but at the same time, this is still a moderate response to some nonsense that has been posted earlier in the thread.


----------



## Bomaye (Apr 2, 2016)

Jbardo said:


> Some people can't wait to chip in on a match that people love and say "it was never 5 stars" it's like they get a kick out of trying to bring it down.
> 
> Anyway just about to rewatch, can't wait.


Sorry that people are hurting your feelings by giving it the low ratings of 3.5 - 4.5/5 and I'm sorry that I've seen Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle in a 60 minute iron man match, Ibushi vs Nakamura, Taker vs. Shawn and gave them 5/5 but gave Zayn vs. Nakamura in a compromised PG WWE 4/5.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Different opinions are absolutely fine. Your anti-smark "shit on anything the IWC tends to like" stuff seems to be such a commonly reoccurring theme in your posts (the ones ive seen anyway) that it comes across more like troll schtick than genuine opinion though.


Well it isn't. Aren't smarks huge fans of these tag teams that opened the event and were MOTN in my opinion? 
Hell didn't they worship the little goatman, who was my favourite performer the last few years, as a god? You sure know how to pick the posts you read :lol.

A match without build / story can never, ever be 5 stars and I've stated numerous times before that I'm the furthest from a Sami Zayn fan, his complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star. That leaves them with 3 for solid ring work and clearly entertaining the people in attendance.

Fine match but doesn't come anywhere near previous MOTY winners.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

What an incredible atmosphere. I think we are all going to enjoy having Nakamura around. It seems like at least for NXT he's going to get treated exactly the way he needs to be. The match was good but the atmosphere was special.


----------



## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

This match stole the NXTTakeOver show and possibly Mania weekend. Incredible from start to finish.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Braylyt said:


> Well it isn't. Aren't smarks huge fans of these tag teams that opened the event and were MOTN in my opinion?
> Hell didn't they worship the little goatman, who was my favourite performer the last few years, as a god? You sure know how to pick the posts you read :lol.
> 
> A match without build / story can never, ever be 5 stars and I've stated numerous times before that I'm the furthest from a Sami Zayn fan, his complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star. That leaves them with 3 for solid ring work and clearly entertaining the people I'm attendance.
> ...


If you said it from the beginning that your opinion/rating was centered around your dislike of Zayn, then you likely wouldn't have been called out. So objectively you thought it was about 4 stars. I don't think that a build is necessary for a match to be five stars but it is a factor that influences every match.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

Braylyt said:


> Well it isn't. Aren't smarks huge fans of these tag teams that opened the event and were MOTN in my opinion?
> Hell didn't they worship the little goatman, who was my favourite performer the last few years, as a god? You sure know how to pick the posts you read :lol.
> 
> A match without build / story can never, ever be 5 stars and I've stated numerous times before that I'm the furthest from a Sami Zayn fan, his complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star. That leaves them with 3 for solid ring work and clearly entertaining the people I'm attendance.
> ...


Good on you for at least giving some reasoning behind your opinion, but agree to disagree.


----------



## Omega_VIK (Jul 3, 2008)

Yeah, this is the match of year for WWE. It's going to be hard for them to top it.


----------



## THA_WRESTER (Sep 29, 2011)

it was good for what it was, but the claim that it was MOTY is a little extensive. Tag match, Asuka/Bayley, and Balor/Joe were better matches in my opinion. Nice sendoff for Zayn though.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Bomaye said:


> Jbardo said:
> 
> 
> > Some people can't wait to chip in on a match that people love and say "it was never 5 stars" it's like they get a kick out of trying to bring it down.
> ...


Feeling aren't hurt thanks, I'm just aiming that at the same few people that do it that's all. I agree that this wasn't quite on the level of Nak v Ibushi or Nak v Styles but I loved it.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> If you are going to pose contrarian, at least give an indepth analysis of why you think that way instead of being the degrading _ballbag_ that I've seen from you in other posts. Because you know, there are people that would respond to reason as long as it isn't nonsense and dick-waving.


If you don't agree with the majority here (regardless of whether it's legit or a purposely contrarian view) there's no point in explaining why. Most people won't read or at least respond, not that they're expected to, but most of the ones that do read and respond nit-pick things they have problems with. I've never been highly praising of anything or a ridiculous mark on the forum and I've criticised a lot, but apparently it's all I do, because I can say "This match I give ***.75" and people take exception because it's not *****.

Take for example when Balor debuted I didn't really see anything good from him but I was hopeful and I suppose optimistic he'd do something decent because everyone loved the guy. After it was apparent he did nothing but wrestle like a lesser version of Neville, but with body paint, I became increasingly critical every week, fortnight, month, etc. Up until I reached the point where I was just a "contrarian" for not liking Balor when everyone else did. He hasn't changed since then, and now he has less fans than detractors on the forum. I'm still a "contrarian" though.


TL;DR:
"I like this match" = OK.
[Three paragraphs of why you don't think the match was as good as everyone says it must be otherwise you "don't know what you're talking about"] = Angry hater, contrarian, etc.


----------



## 2Short2BoxWGod (Mar 13, 2013)

Fucking beautiful match I watched last night. I was hooked start to finish. MOTY candidate most definitely and it's gonna be hard to beat.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Desecrated said:


> If you said it from the beginning that your opinion/rating was centered around your dislike of Zayn, then you likely wouldn't have been called out. So objectively you thought it was about 4 stars. I don't think that a build is necessary for a match to be five stars but it is a factor that influences every match.


It's unnecessary to regurgitate my opinion on Zayn in every thread, I'm not going out of my way to shit on him. It wasn't even centered around my dislike for him, I rated his fatal 4-way and Owens matches higher than this.
I 'dislike' AJ Styles too for that matter (same reason also) and his match with Nakamura at WK was better than this one.
Zayn's ring work isn't on par with anyone mentioned either.

And there is no such thing as 'objectively' in entertainment. You either are entertained by what you see or you aren't, there are no objective aspects that everybody is entertained by.


----------



## The Amazon (Sep 24, 2015)

Lot of still real to me dammit weirdos in here right now....how many of u said you wanted to cry...come on. 

This is what makes me embarrassed to say i watch wrestling


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

Classic, absolute classic.

4 stars, 5 stars i don't give it fuck about the rating if that match cannot draw you in then i don't know what to say.

Just everything about it from the entrances to the end was fantastic.

I don't know how the WWE can manage to screw up Nakamura, they better not.


----------



## FROSTY (Jan 22, 2015)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Different opinions are absolutely fine. Your anti-smark "shit on anything the IWC tends to like" stuff seems to be such a commonly reoccurring theme in your posts (the ones ive seen anyway) that it comes across more like troll schtick than genuine opinion though.


*Just ignore list him, that's what I do with him and posters like him. The garbage isn't even worth the time it takes to read it, and responding to the drivel is exactly what they want.

Let'em starve :rock1*


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Bomaye said:


> I feel that the 5 star ratings are because of the names involved and the hype surrounding Nakamura. I also wonder if these people have actually seen great 5 star quality matches (Brock vs. Angle, Owen vs. Bret, Shawn vs. Bret, Okada vs. Tanahashi, Taker vs. Shawn, Joe vs Punk)


I have seen all of those matches, and I think Zayn/Nakamura was better than every single one of them.


----------



## Coach (May 5, 2013)

*It was an amazing match. Not 5 stars but for a match with no real build it delivered way past what I had expected.

The only problem with this mach was it out shined the divas and title match and left everyone there as well as myself (at home) exhausted.

Either way, both Zayn and Nakamura have so much more to offer and I can't wait.*


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

BatkOxi10 said:


> If you don't agree with the majority here (regardless of whether it's legit or a purposely contrarian view) there's no point in explaining why. Most people won't read or at least respond, not that they're expected to, but most of the ones that do read and respond nit-pick things they have problems with. I've never been highly praising of anything or a ridiculous mark on the forum and I've criticised a lot, but apparently it's all I do, because I can say "This match I give ***.75" and people take exception because it's not *****.
> 
> Take for example when Balor debuted I didn't really see anything good from him but I was hopeful and I suppose optimistic he'd do something decent because everyone loved the guy. After it was apparent he did nothing but wrestle like a lesser version of Neville, but with body paint, I became increasingly critical every week, fortnight, month, etc. Up until I reached the point where I was just a "contrarian" for not liking Balor when everyone else did. He hasn't changed since then, and now he has less fans than detractors on the forum. I'm still a "contrarian" though.
> 
> ...


Imo, if you have an opinion that is the contrary of the popular opinion, I do think you should justify it. Otherwise, it comes off as petty and dick-stroking. If people offer a good analysis of why it falls flat, then perfect. Otherwise, everyone has likely come across people who shoot shit down for the sake of acting the contrarian and to act above everyone who is enjoying it, and it isn't fun or worthwhile to read. Be a hero guise, back up contraversial opinions.

We could apply it to the opposite mentality but if enough people actively like a match, there will always be a few people who have justified the mass opinion of it and therefore doing it more is a waste of time.



Braylyt said:


> It's unnecessary to regurgitate my opinion on Zayn in every thread, I'm not going out of my way to shit on him. It wasn't even centered around my dislike for him, I rated his fatal 4-way and Owens matches higher than this.
> I 'dislike' AJ Styles too for that matter (same reason also) and his match with Nakamura at WK was better than this one.
> Zayn's ring work isn't on par with anyone mentioned either.
> 
> And there is no such thing as 'objectively' in entertainment. You either are entertained by what you see or you aren't, there are no objective aspects that everybody is entertained by.


There will always be first time readers to an opinion you take. I didn't know you dislike Zayn and find him lacklustre, and it is something that could've been spelt out in a few words that would at least validate why you aren't as high on the match as other people.



For the record, I'd put it down as 4 and a 1/4. The lack of a story was made up by what I felt was determination by Nakamura to prove his worth to new fans and the boardroom. For Zayn, on what he knew was his swansong, passing the torch to the next top babyface in NXT, providing a resilience that he has always brought out when it mattered. There was two exchanges that felt sloppy and they substituted a lack of intensity with striking, which felt slightly awkward. But everything that I felt they wanted to do was accomplished (highlighting the strengths of both performers and delivering a match for the crowd.)


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

I think people are going too far a little. It was an awesome match, but definitely not 5 stars.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> Imo, if you have an opinion that is the contrary of the popular opinion, I do think you should justify it. Otherwise, it comes off as petty and dick-stroking. If people offer a good analysis of why it falls flat, then perfect. Otherwise, everyone has likely come across people who shoot shit down for the sake of acting the contrarian and to act above everyone who is enjoying it, and it isn't fun or worthwhile to read. Be a hero guise, back up contraversial opinions.
> 
> We could apply it to the opposite mentality but if enough people actively like a match, there will always be a few people who have justified the mass opinion of it and therefore doing it more is a waste of time.


I've personally just gotten to the point where apparently everyone believes I'm just a contrarian or that I hate on things everyone likes because I'm a "troll" so I keep it succinct unless anyone wants to question me about it, so not to give these people any "fodder". :side:

I do agree, FWIW. It's just people here sure do love to nitpick, so keeping it short is probably for the best.


----------



## almostfamous (May 18, 2009)

BlackoutLAS said:


> Anyone who dosent share your exact opinion is 'trying to act cool'? Jesus Christ how ignorant are you?
> 
> I'll give the match 4 and a 1/2 stars. Would've been full if it actually had a story.


You can say what you want, which is fine. I saw people saying that that match wasn't very good. Those people are wrong and I stand by that.


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Braylyt said:


> Well it isn't. Aren't smarks huge fans of these tag teams that opened the event and were MOTN in my opinion?
> Hell didn't they worship the little goatman, who was my favourite performer the last few years, as a god? You sure know how to pick the posts you read :lol.
> 
> A match without build / story can never, ever be 5 stars and I've stated numerous times before that I'm the furthest from a Sami Zayn fan, his complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star. That leaves them with 3 for solid ring work and clearly entertaining the people in attendance.
> ...


So do you think it's fair for Reigns detractors/non-fans to rate Lesnar/Reigns, a match that got massiv acclaim last year, a star less than 5 stars because they're not a fan of Reigns? :hmm:


----------



## DemBoy (Dec 3, 2013)

Spidey said:


> So do you think it's fair for Reigns detractors/non-fans to rate Lesnar/Reigns, a match that got massiv acclaim last year, a star less than 5 stars because they're not a fan of Reigns? :hmm:


And Reigns complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

Star ratings for matches is so cancerous.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Spidey said:


> So do you think it's fair for Reigns detractors/non-fans to rate Lesnar/Reigns, a match that got massiv acclaim last year, a star less than 5 stars because they're not a fan of Reigns? :hmm:


Yes.



DemBoy said:


> And Reigns complete lack of charisma makes it impossible to get behind him, so there goes another star.


fpalm 

That's the same star genius.


----------



## Daemon_Rising (Jul 18, 2009)

People _not_ giving this the full 5/5 on the basis that this is only the tip of the iceberg of strong style... totally unfair.

This means Nakamura is going to have put on an absolute clinic with every fucking opponent, to even be considered in the 4-5 range.

Look, I rarely, if ever, talk about star ratings. I think they are largely bullshit and a large reason for this is Meltzer. Meltzers ratings should not be gospel, and I often disagree with him.

*I'm just saying:* When you consider *Meltzers* standards, and how easily at times he chucks out 4* ratings, this would surely be considered a 5*. Given the context of the event, the weekend, the debut, and Zayn soon to leave, I don't think these 2 guys could have put on a better match at all. I'm not even a Zayn fan and that match made me appreciate his work. I still remain very impressed and it gets full marks from me. 

Did the crowd + the debut of Nakamura + Zayn leaving "bump" the match up a little. Yeah sure I can agree with that. But so what. It was brilliant.


----------



## The Amazon (Sep 24, 2015)

People are calling it a 5 because its "nakamura", it was a basic match. Wow they went back and forth trading forearms...wow he kneed him alot...

Lot of basic shit


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't like to give star ratings but I think it was the best WWE match I've seen this year. Usually I need a good storyline to get invested in a match but since there haven't really been any good stories this year, a good, stiff match with a hype crowd will have to do for now.


----------



## Squeege (Jul 16, 2013)

Some of the stuff people write on this forum is the reason I'd completely stop watching wrestling altogether if I visited here anymore than I already too. People's biases and blindness towards certain wrestlers and love of their own just makes them write the most absurd shit. It's quite embarrassing really..


----------



## DemBoy (Dec 3, 2013)

Braylyt said:


> fpalm
> 
> That's the same star genius.


Not really. One is for him being ass in the ring and the other one is for him having the charisma of a wet sponge.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Imo it can't be a 5 star match if you never believed one of the competitors had a chance at winning.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

DemBoy said:


> Not really. One is for him being ass in the ring and the other one is for him having the charisma of a wet sponge.


fpalm

Then you feeling he isn't good in the ring is the second one.

You should really read what you reply to next time.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

I don't think it was as good as some are banging on about. Nakamura seems like the business, but I felt that it went on a few minutes longer than it should have. :justsayin


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

Squeege said:


> Some of the stuff people write on this forum is the reason I'd completely stop watching wrestling altogether if I visited here anymore than I already too. People's biases and blindness towards certain wrestlers and love of their own just makes them write the most absurd shit. It's quite embarrassing really..


Yep, it's not worth replying to some people after a while as you know it's not going to go anywhere with how they usual post.

Won't go as far to say it's a gimmick but they are clearly stuck in their way of thinking and have no give in any discussion so best to just move along and leave them to it.


----------



## El Dandy (Oct 2, 2007)

Very good, but I wasn't really feeling it on that "great" level.

If peeps thought this was great, pls go watch Nakamura v Sakuraba and Nakamura v Ibushi STAT


----------



## PepeSilvia (Sep 11, 2013)

Freaking Nakamura!!!!!


----------



## PepeSilvia (Sep 11, 2013)

He needs a cool shirt. Id buy it and the last wwe shirt i bought was a hogan shirt in 02


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

The Amazon said:


> People are calling it a 5 because its "nakamura", it was a basic match. Wow they went back and forth trading forearms...wow he kneed him alot...
> 
> Lot of basic shit


Except there's a bunch of posts with people writing that this is their first glimpse of Nakamura and still calling it an incredible match.

Also, if you genuinely believe this match was "basic" then, I'd love to hear what a non basic one is.


----------



## Blommen (May 11, 2012)

☆Shala☆;58570313 said:


> Except there's a bunch of posts with people writing that this is their first glimpse of Nakamura and still calling it an incredible match.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if you genuinely believe this match was "basic" then, I'd love to hear what a non basic one is.




I Think it's hilarious how severely some people on here are short Selling strikes in wrestling, especially when you consider how woefully bad most of the wwe' main roster is in that area. New Japan strike work is literally in another dimension when compared to what you see in wwe. It is absolutely not even close to "basic shit".


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Seeing Nakamura made me wish that Michaels was still an active competitor. :cry


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

I think it was a very good match, but a lot of people are severely overrating it. I think the atmosphere made it better than it was, take out the crowd hype and the novelty of seeing these guys face off in a WWE ring and the match would lose most of what made it great.

Its kind of like Hogan vs The Rock at WM in that respect.

Anyway, I think Nakamura will have way better matches than this during his time in WWE.


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

People far to caught up in the star ratings.

I do struggle with anybody who could watch that and not enjoy it though, it was just so enthralling.


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

Enjoyed it, never seen him before. But some of this shit is waaayy OTT.

Decent match.


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

wkdsoul said:


> Enjoyed it, never seen him before. But some of this shit is waaayy OTT.
> 
> Decent match.


Being OTT is part of his gimmick, and it's great.


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

2Pieced said:


> Being OTT is part of his gimmick, and it's great.


I meant you lot, Best thing ever, i cried, waaa ffs.


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

wkdsoul said:


> I meant you lot, Best thing ever, i cried, waaa ffs.


Never called it the best thing ever or cried.

Don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## deanambroselover (Mar 16, 2015)

The match was great. But Nakamura is just gonna get overhyped


----------



## wkdsoul (Apr 2, 2012)

2Pieced said:


> Never called it the best thing ever or cried.
> 
> Don't put words in my mouth.


Yes cause when i said SOME of this shit is waaay OTT.

I meant you specifically.


----------



## teick (Sep 8, 2012)

This match was fucking insane! One of my favourite matches of all time, not even joking.
All these hipsters with comments like ”decent match”, ”nothing special” and shit like this can go fuck themselves.
Nakamura is awesome!


----------



## 2Pieced (Feb 23, 2015)

wkdsoul said:


> Yes cause when i said SOME of this shit is waaay OTT.
> 
> I meant you specifically.


"You lot" is lumping me in with those guys you described as calling it the best thing ever.

Anyway no big deal.


----------



## ironcladd1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was impressed.

I'm worried about how Nakamura will be booked on the main roster though. Hopefully he's working hard on his english speaking ability.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

☆Shala☆;58570313 said:


> Also, if you genuinely believe this match was "basic" then, I'd love to hear what a non basic one is.


Most spots were so basic and reminiscent of WWE wrestling trying to emulate Puro or the indie circuit. Especially that overdone 'smash eachother in the face while both wrestlers are fatigued' spot.

I actually really liked the late-middle part of the match where Nakamura ran to the corner and Zayn followed up, almost hitting the Helluva Kick, as well as the moments after that where both guys seemed to be scrambling to get a hold of control again, but a lot of the stuff in the match was awfully predictable and typical of WWE trying to put on one of those "smarky" matches these days.


----------



## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

For those experiencing Nakamura for the first time I can see how you can look at it as a 5 star. This includes those who not only experience Nakamura for the first time, but how Wrestling is down outside WWE.

For me personally, Nakamura vs Zayn was lesser Nakamura, but shows you how even lesser Nakamura is GREAT Nakamura. He's not flashy, does pull out a continuous combination of Wrestling moves. You could say he's old school. There's a reason why this guy is considered to be quite possibly the legit best in the world.

You new comers saw Nakamura at half of what he's capable of, just imagine what you'll get when he's at full power.


----------



## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

BatkOxi10 said:


> Most spots were so basic and reminiscent of WWE wrestling trying to emulate Puro or the indie circuit. Especially that overdone 'smash eachother in the face while both wrestlers are fatigued' spot.
> 
> I actually really liked the late-middle part of the match where Nakamura ran to the corner and Zayn followed up, almost hitting the Helluva Kick, as well as the moments after that where both guys seemed to be scrambling to get a hold of control again, but a lot of the stuff in the match was awfully predictable and typical of WWE trying to put on one of those "smarky" matches these days.


Was the overdone elbow strikes a bad spot or just Nakamura and Zayn listening and giving the crowd what they wanted?

Latter part is the correct answer. >

Fans loved it, and thus they kept going. You could tell, because they were not necessarily sure when to stop.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

BatkOxi10 said:


> Most spots were so basic and reminiscent of WWE wrestling trying to emulate Puro or the indie circuit. Especially that overdone 'smash eachother in the face while both wrestlers are fatigued' spot.
> 
> I actually really liked the late-middle part of the match where Nakamura ran to the corner and Zayn followed up, almost hitting the Helluva Kick, as well as the moments after that where both guys seemed to be scrambling to get a hold of control again, but a lot of the stuff in the match was awfully predictable and typical of WWE trying to put on one of those "smarky" matches these days.


I don't see how it's trying to emulate when one of the competitors is a Puro expert himself. I actually rarely see that spot go on for as long as it did and I loved it because I took as them doing whatever it took to take the other down. I'm a mark for stiff "fights" like that so :shrug

I also don't get your last point. What are other "smarky" matches they've put out lately? The only ones I think of are the finisher and spot fests which I wouldn't even call "smarky".

I don't even know what a "smarky" match is.


----------



## Sick Graps-V2 (Apr 1, 2013)

☆Shala☆;58570313 said:


> Except there's a bunch of posts with people writing that this is their first glimpse of Nakamura and still calling it an incredible match.
> 
> Also, if you genuinely believe this match was "basic" then, I'd love to hear what a non basic one is.


This.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

The Nuke said:


> Was the overdone elbow strikes a bad spot or just Nakamura and Zayn listening and giving the crowd what they wanted?
> 
> Latter part is the correct answer. >
> 
> Fans loved it, and thus they kept going. You could tell, because they were not necessarily sure when to stop.


Those two things aren't exclusive, though. We all know the NXT audiences are, in general, the worst of all time though (a bit of hyperbole calm down + Dallas was really good for the most part).



☆Shala☆;58572585 said:


> I don't see how it's trying to emulate when one of the competitors is a Puro expert himself. I actually rarely see that spot go on for as long as it did and I loved it because I took as them doing whatever it took to take the other down. I'm a mark for stiff "fights" like that so :shrug
> 
> I also don't get your last point. What are other "smarky" matches they've put out lately? The only ones I think of are the finisher and spot fests which I wouldn't even call "smarky".
> 
> I don't even know what a "smarky" match is.


It's trying to emulate the way they wrestle in places other than WWE because they - the wrestlers themselves and the bookers - know that's what the fans of those wrestlers want.

When I say "these days" I mean in like the last half decade. You've had matches like Cesaro/Bryan which I think were among the first ones that really let two GOAT indie guys go at it their own way, and that had a flurry of uppercuts between the two. You also have guys like Cena trying to wrestle more 'technically' because he's trying to get over with the workrate marks.

You know what "smarky matches" are, it's very clear what they are.


----------



## Bomaye (Apr 2, 2016)

Daemon_Rising said:


> People _not_ giving this the full 5/5 on the basis that this is only the tip of the iceberg of strong style... totally unfair.
> 
> This means Nakamura is going to have put on an absolute clinic with every fucking opponent, to even be considered in the 4-5 range.


Or... the people not giving it 5/5 have seen better matches from Nakamura, which seems to be the case as most of the people I've seen that gave it 5/5 state that they've never seen a Nakamura match before. As someone who's been watching Nakamura for over a decade, I don't feel like I'm being unfair at all. 

There is no way that this match is one of the best matches of all time, if I gave this a 5/5, I'd feel as if I'm disrespecting the people involved in some of the best matches ever.

If anyone told me that they thought this was better (or on par) with the following matches wrestling-wise, then I would never take anything they say seriously again:

Savage vs. Steamboat (WrestleMania III)
Undertaker vs. Michaels (WrestleMania XXV and XXVI)
Bret vs. Owen (WrestleMania X)
Bret vs. Owen (Steel cage match at SummerSlam)
Flair vs. Steamboat (NWA)
Misterio vs. Eddie (WCW)
Michaels vs. Bret (WrestleMania XI)
Austin vs. Bret (WrestleMania 13)
Lesnar vs. Angle (WrestleMania XIX)
Lesnar vs. Angle (60 min iron man match on SD)
Lesnar vs. Punk (SummerSlam)
Lesnar vs. Eddie (No Way Out)
Punk vs. Joe II
Nakamura vs. AJ Styles (WK10)
Nakamura vs. Ibushi (WK9)
Okada vs. Tanahashi (WK10)
Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn (Any of their ECW PPV matches)
Angle vs. Michaels (WrestleMania)
Angle vs. Undertaker (No Way Out)

And not only was this not Nakamura's best match, this wasn't even Zayn's best match; he had better with Kevin Steen when he was El Generico.

The fucking WWE bubble, man.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

BatkOxi10 said:


> Those two things aren't exclusive, though. We all know the NXT audiences are, in general, the worst of all time though (a bit of hyperbole calm down + Dallas was really good for the most part).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So they're giving the fans what they want? That's a good thing even if some personally don't enjoy it.

I never got that vibe from Cena. I always looked at it at if he himself wanted to change things up and evolve. If he really cared about pleasing workrate marks he'd have done that YEARS ago. 

I still don't man. A match is just a match to me. :toommaykobes

I didn't know some analyzed matches to this extent :rudy


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

NastyYaffa said:


> I have seen all of those matches, and I think Zayn/Nakamura was better than every single one of them.


Nice to see someone who can appreciate work outside of the WWE but not have a stick up their ass because something outside of NJPW gets lauded as a GOAT candidate. (Y)


----------



## DemBoy (Dec 3, 2013)

Braylyt said:


> fpalm
> 
> Then you feeling he isn't good in the ring is the second one.
> 
> You should really read what you reply to next time.


fpalm

Thats the first one, because thats the reason i didn't like him back then. The second one is him having no charisma and thus not being able to get behind him, as you so eloquently put it. You do know you can get behind wrestlers that you don't like right?


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

☆Shala☆;58573017 said:


> So they're giving the fans what they want? That's a good thing even if some personally don't enjoy it.
> 
> I never got that vibe from Cena. I always looked at it at if he himself wanted to change things up and evolve. If he really cared about pleasing workrate marks he'd have done that YEARS ago.
> 
> ...


What kind of point is that? Some fans want Roman Reigns so we shouldn't be critical of him or his push?

Idk why but Cena sure started caring about it when Bryan was climbing up the card. Pretty sure Cena/Bryan was the first match he started all this stuff. I might be wrong tho.

That last line is a total cop out, you of all people should know by now I don't go out of my way to think about these things. It pops in my mind when I'm watching the matches just the same as it does anyone else. I don't watch in slow motion or skip backwards to re-watch certain moments just to "analyze" the match. I watch it normally like everyone else.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Ah, wrestling fans. We truly are the scum of this world :lmao

I rated the match 5 stars because I don't think I could've enjoyed it any further. If I didn't, would it be because I was trying to sound like a smartass and a more knowledgeable fan? Not necessarily, I might not just have liked the match to that point. I can understand people not enjoying the strike exchanges or the simplicity of the match, I did because I already exposed what the format of the match meant in that context for me, and I can get behind it. I don't care if it's "NJPW-lite". What's wrong with NJPW-lite? It's Nakamura in NXT, facing Sami Zayn, NJPW-lite is exactly what I expected and welcomed it. 

To me, it was great storytelling with Zayn leaving the place he more than anyone helped elevate to further heights not wanting to go down in his last, and highest profile match in NXT to a debuting challenger, even if he is the best in the world, therefore, he upped his intensity, upped his striking game and decided to prove he's not just some high-flying vanilla midget that can't hang with real men. Y'know, like... Nakamura/Ibushi at WK9. But this is what it meant to ME, and that's why I enjoyed it so thoroughly. Like I said, I understand other people not enjoying it as much, so if they wanna give it ***1/2, it's because that was their level of enjoyment of the match and as much as I disagree to the rating itself, I can't disagree with their enjoyment of it.

And giving it 5 stars doesn't necessarily mean you haven't watched any Nakamura matches, come on. I know because I've watched plenty of Nakamura's stuff and this was easily on of my favourite matches of his.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

BatkOxi10 said:


> What kind of point is that? Some fans want Roman Reigns so we shouldn't be critical of him or his push?
> 
> Idk why but Cena sure started caring about it when Bryan was climbing up the card. Pretty sure Cena/Bryan was the first match he started all this stuff. I might be wrong tho.
> 
> That last line is a total cop out, you of all people should know by now I don't go out of my way to think about these things. It pops in my mind when I'm watching the matches just the same as it does anyone else. I don't watch in slow motion or skip backwards to re-watch certain moments just to "analyze" the match. I watch it normally like everyone else.


Well, I should have said the majority. The spot was received well so they kept it going. I don't see how that's a problem. I mean, if it got no reaction then yeah it'd be dumb to continue.

I watch them normally as well. I just don't label matches as "smarkfests" or whatever because I genuinely don't know what that is. Lots of moves? Risky spots? Bunch of kick outs? Chain wrestling? I genuinely don't understand.


----------



## DJHJR86 (Jan 31, 2015)

I watched a total of one match of Nakamura's prior to this. I got tired of seeing the stupid gifs of his charismatic tourret's like motions, but damn this guy just oozes charisma. I'm a believer now. The guy has "it". Sami Zayn...not so much.

But 5 stars? Really? I was glad to see an old fashioned ring psychology type match between the two, but there is no way in hell that that match was that great. Extremely good, but overrated as predicted.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Martins said:


> Ah, wrestling fans. *We truly are the scum of this world* :lmao
> 
> I rated the match 5 stars because I don't think I could've enjoyed it any further. If I didn't, *would it be because I was trying to sound like a smartass and a more knowledgeable fan?*


Speak for yourself. :tripsscust



☆Shala☆;58573601 said:


> Well, I should have said the majority. The spot was received well so they kept it going. I don't see how that's a problem. I mean, if it got no reaction then yeah it'd be dumb to continue.
> 
> I watch them normally as well. I just don't label matches as "smarkfests" or whatever because I genuinely don't know what that is. Lots of moves? Risky spots? Bunch of kick outs? Chain wrestling? I genuinely don't understand.


But I reckon the majority of WWE fans these days are actually behind Reigns if you want to get technical. Count all the kids, all the girls, all the women and, of course, all the Indians who think WWE is real.

I'm not calling it a "smarkfest" because I'm not that shallow. :side:
I'm saying that it's very clear there are parts in these matches that are inspired from independents or Japan. This match was obviously very Puro-esque which was the point, and I get that, but I singled out the forearms because that has been a staple for a while now. I was mistaken before because they have definitely done those spots since the dawn of wrestling time. They're pretty boring for the most part and IMO in this match it was no different


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

BatkOxi10 said:


> Speak for yourself. :tripsscust
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now now, don't get me wrong; I wasn't accusing anyone of BEING a smartass, I was actually saying the exact contrary in that it was wrong to automatically count them as such because I've seen people do that exact thing. 

The "scum" comment was a joke in that both sides have already found nonsensical ways to attack one another, that's all I meant


----------



## southrnbygrace (Jun 14, 2014)

I had never seen Nakamura before this match and he was fine, but all the 5 star rating stuff, I don't get. It was a wrestling match. He and Sami did a decent job of selling the story. I didn't feel anything he did was that charismatic, but since I've seen him a total of ONE time I don't feel I can judge him in that respect. Overall, I enjoyed the match itself just not sure it was a 5 star outing.


----------



## T0M (Jan 11, 2015)

For me, this was one of the best matches I've ever seen. 

Nakamura was beyond words, I thought. Having never seen him before I felt hooked on him from the second his entrance started. A truly mesmerizing showman. The match itself was just so well put together and constructed it wasn't even funny. Add into the mix that it was pretty obviously Sami's last big match and my emotions were sky high.

After it was over I sat there for a good few minutes and for probably the first time I felt a bit emotional over it. Everything about that match was fucking art and really made me realize how good professional wrestling can be when done right.

From top to bottom I loved this show. Kudos to Triple H and NXT, it was a really special performance. I just wish I could have experienced it in person.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Bomaye said:


> Savage vs. Steamboat (WrestleMania III)
> Undertaker vs. Michaels (WrestleMania XXV and XXVI)
> Bret vs. Owen (WrestleMania X)
> Bret vs. Owen (Steel cage match at SummerSlam)
> ...


unk2

Once again, I have seen EVERY one of those matches that you mentioned. I thought Nakamura vs. Zayn from last night's show was better than EVERY single one of them. And lol @ the "The fucking WWE bubble, man" comment, I watch NJPW, EVOLVE, ROH, PWG etc and Nakamura/Zayn was without a doubt one of the greatest matches that I have ever seen, and the best match of the year so far. Stop acting like your opinions are facts, dude.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Some people need to remember that their opinion is just that, an opinion. 

You think this match is five stars? Great! Do you think it was only three or so? Also great! 

Bottom line is if you enjoyed the match _yourself_, barring the influence from anybody else, or any wrestling reviewer, journalist, or what have you. I adored this match, and I thought it was a ******* match, but that's just my opinion on the matter.


----------



## Oneiros (Feb 16, 2014)

Wow, some people really analyze things to the core. It would be a lot nicer if all of us could express our views on the match without feeling the need to devaluate other people's opinions. Besides... 5 stars, 4 stars, is that what really matters? Some people seem to be more worried about analyzing anything and everything than actually enjoying it. But on that regard, it sounds stupid to underrate a match just because it happens under WWE's wing.

To me it was just a damn good spectacle, I don't even rate it.


----------



## hunteraustin (Feb 21, 2009)

Donnie said:


> I just went back and watched it, still a 5Star match.



Then you probably would give Cameron's favorite match 5 stars..







In all seriousness though. It's GOOD , it's just not 5 stars good. You keep forgetting that everyone knew that Nakamura was going to win, so the anticipation of not knowing who was going to win WAS NOT THERE. To have a 5 star match, that has to be there (IMO). 
I'm also gonna go back and watch it, but I can say for sure that it's definitely not 5 stars.
I think the Nakamura marks are just pushing it a little too much when saying 5 stars. He's good , just not that good. :wink2:


----------



## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

This was the first Nakamura match I've seen and he definitely didn't disappoint. The match had me hooked from start to finish. It's matches like this that remind me why I love wrestling.


----------



## hunteraustin (Feb 21, 2009)

NastyYaffa said:


> unk2
> 
> Once again, I have seen EVERY one of those matches that you mentioned. I thought Nakamura vs. Zayn from last night's show was better than EVERY single one of them. And lol @ the "The fucking WWE bubble, man" comment, I watch NJPW, EVOLVE, ROH, PWG etc and Nakamura/Zayn was without a doubt one of the greatest matches that I have ever seen, and the best match of the year so far. Stop acting like your opinions are facts, dude.



Ah well.......if you think that was one of the greatest matches and 5 stars....I think that you are in the minority.


----------



## I drink and I know things (Feb 7, 2010)

At one point and the match I jumped up off the couch and seriously strained my quad. So pathetic. I'm having trouble walking today and it's starting to bruise and swell up...


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

gobsayscomeon said:


> At one point and the match I jumped up of the couch and seriously strained my quad. So pathetic. I'm having trouble walking today and it's starting to bruise and swell up...


Yeah. This is how good it was.


----------



## Pickle_Juice_Help (Jan 20, 2014)

Amazing match. Did Nakamura even did one grappling move lol? Pure brutality. Knees, elbows wow.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Dr. Middy said:


> Some people need to remember that their opinion is just that, an opinion.
> 
> You think this match is five stars? Great! Do you think it was only three or so? Also great!
> 
> Bottom line is if you enjoyed the match _yourself_, barring the influence from anybody else, or any wrestling reviewer, journalist, or what have you. I adored this match, and I thought it was a ******* match, but that's just my opinion on the matter.





J'onn J'onzz said:


> Wow, some people really analyze things to the core. It would be a lot nicer if all of us could express our views on the match without feeling the need to devaluate other people's opinions. Besides... 5 stars, 4 stars, is that what really matters? Some people seem to be more worried about analyzing anything and everything than actually enjoying it. But on that regard, it sounds stupid to underrate a match just because it happens under WWE's wing.
> 
> To me it was just a damn good spectacle, I don't even rate it.


I think both of these posts have it the wrong way around. People are watching/enjoying/disliking the match then analysing it subsequently, influenced by whether they enjoyed or disliked it. This is a forum and people should justify (if they posted their opinion) why they felt that way (if the opinion is contraversial/to the contrary) while not being an idiot/stubborn beyond belief. Why go on a forum if you have an opinion and plan to stick your fingers in your ears screaming "NA-NA-NA-I-CANT-HEAR-YOU"?

Nothing wrong with discussion. I know it's considered too progressive nowadays to confront things but I doubt any of the moderators plan to force totalitarianism.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

:banderas


----------



## Lariatoh! (Apr 26, 2012)

Great match and it was great to see Zayn look strong. It seemed like that was Zayn's last night in NXT. 

Samoa Joe turned back the clock in his match too, so hopefully we get a Joe vs. Nakamura match soon.


----------



## King-of-the-World (Sep 4, 2006)

Iron Man said:


> Amazing match :sodone from their entrances to the end. I don't really rate matches but it is a MOTY contender or sure. Nakamura was on fire and Zayn was with him step for step. The matches he could have with Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, Cena and a few others :banderas
> 
> Almost shed a tear seeing how this is Zayn's last match. Didn't expect him to retire so young @swagger_ROCKS


Isn't he just being promoted to the main roster?


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

OK so just watched it in full.

No story? The fuck were some of you watching? Newcomer Nakamura shows up to show everyone he's a badass, and he's going against NXT prodigy Sami Zayn. During the match, Zayn, clearly taken by surprise at Nakamura's caliber, starts unleashing on him with offence we haven't seen from him. Why? He's never been put in a position to defend NXT's honor and won't let this cocky new guy come in and show him up. He proceeds to try and put him in his place, reminding him that they're in his domain. Bam, story.

This was basically WWE puro, or the closest we'll ever get. The slow, methodical start, transitioning into bigger, more devastating moves. The constant counters and momentum switches. The stiff strikes and strike exchanges. That's all right out of the puro playbook.

As for the match itself...it lives up to the hype. If this is people's first look at Shinsuke, I'm not surprised they're taken with him, he's so unique and fresh. And for long time New Japan watchers, like myself, its pretty much classic Nakamura. Resting his head on his opponent's chest during a rope break, sidestepping the lock up, the shaking boot to a downed opponent in the corner are all classic spots. Most stuff has been covered already by others, but its far and away WWE's MOTY and barring some miracle is going to be leagues ahead of anything on Mania's card tomorrow. Unlike Shane jumping off high shit, this stuff is actual wrestling. Best WWE match I've seen in a long time, not counting rewatches of known GOAT contenders.

Rating...probably 4.5, or 4.75 out of 5. It was pretty damn outstanding. Big marks for how surreal it was (just seeing Shinsuke in NXT and them being allowed to work this style of match, including Shinsuke getting busted open hard way), crowd was pretty great, if a tad annoying at times (personal preference), announcers, especially Corey Graves did a terrific job, explaining what Strong Style is, that Inoki trained Nakamura and a bit about his MMA background (the fact those fuckers Cole, Saxton and JBL are calling Mania is shambolic). Props to how much they tailored Shinsuke's entrance to him, very well suited. I'd still say the 2 WK10 main events I liked a bit more, as I gave them both 5, but the fact that this is so close is a real testament to how much they killed it.


----------



## Lone Star (Dec 15, 2015)

Phenomenal match. 4 stars. Nakamura has "it". His style is brutal. Never saw him before until last night and I'm already sold he and Lesnar could make Vince some serious cash. But then again Vince is a fucking idiot. 

What a show. That was wrestling, and Shane McMahon doing a idiotic spot monkey stunt to save his fathers pissbucket Mania card isn't going to top what Triple H and NXT did last night. From top to bottom, a fantastic event.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

hunteraustin said:


> Then you probably would give Cameron's favorite match 5 stars..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And knowing he was going to win, which is the correct outcome, is bad.....why? 

Hey, you know what other outcome people KNEW was going to happen? Taker beating Shawn at WM25. And that match is fucking universally loved.


----------



## Oneiros (Feb 16, 2014)

Desecrated said:


> I think both of these posts have it the wrong way around. People are watching/enjoying/disliking the match then analysing it subsequently, influenced by whether they enjoyed or disliked it. This is a forum and people should justify (if they posted their opinion) why they felt that way (if the opinion is contraversial/to the contrary) while not being an idiot/stubborn beyond belief. Why go on a forum if you have an opinion and plan to stick your fingers in your ears screaming "NA-NA-NA-I-CANT-HEAR-YOU"?
> 
> Nothing wrong with discussion. I know it's considered too progressive nowadays to confront things but I doubt any of the moderators plan to force totalitarianism.


I may have expresed myself the wrong way, I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss the matches. 

I was just trying to make two points: 
- Point 1 being that rating matches based on all their technical aspects probably takes a bit of a toll on the overall enjoyment of said matches.
- Point 2 being that NXT/WWE can also have what you call '5 star matches'

I personally rate matches based solely on how much I enjoy watching them, as I do with movies and everything else.


----------



## BoJackson (Aug 30, 2012)

LiterallyNothing said:


> He would be if they actually tried with him instead of "So, here is Zayn and well...thats it"


Well that's kind of my point. Sami Zayn (and a slew of other talents) are over tremendously... on NXT. Getting over on Raw is an entirely different monster, though. So when someone says that someone from NXT is more over than the main roster guys, I just point to Sami Zayn, who is one of the most beloved NXT guys, and how he comes out to absolute CRICKETS on Raw, because the NXT crowd is a FRACTION of the Raw crowd and the overness doesn't translate.


----------



## Wakans (Apr 1, 2016)

Good match but not deserving of the rave reviews calling it a classic around here. I personally thought Asuka/Bayley stole the show. 

Awsesome theme for Nakamura, looking forward to more good stuff from the jap.


----------



## Jonasolsson96 (Dec 31, 2014)

Donnie said:


> That was 5* Anyone who says different has no clue what their talking about.


I'm probably the biggest nakamura fan on this board but I disagree. I've seen better from both men. This match was great but it wasn't better then zayn vs neville r evolution, zayn vs cesaro arrival, nakamura vs ibushi wrestlekingdom and g1 climax. Nakamura vs tanahashi g1 climax finals. Those are 5-star or close to 5-star matches imo. This was a solid 4.


----------



## Oneiros (Feb 16, 2014)

BoJackson said:


> Well that's kind of my point. Sami Zayn (and a slew of other talents) are over tremendously... on NXT. Getting over on Raw is an entirely different monster, though. So when someone says that someone from NXT is more over than the main roster guys, I just point to Sami Zayn, who is one of the most beloved NXT guys, and how he comes out to absolute CRICKETS on Raw, because the NXT crowd is a FRACTION of the Raw crowd and the overness doesn't translate.


It's not like they made an effort with him on the main roster. 

Zayn was as over as he was in NXT because he's a natural sympathetic underdog and was actually booked as such. His treatment on the main roster was basically just throwing him into a feud with Owens and assuming everyone watches NXT and knows their personal history.


----------



## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

You know Nakamura is a special talent when people are arguing if his debut match was 4* or 5*. For a debut talent to get 3* is crazy.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> You know Nakamura is a special talent when people are arguing if his debut match was 4* or 5*. For a debut talent to get 3* is crazy.


Not many debuts get the time or calibre of opponent though. I mean, Aries' debut was vs Corbin, roughly 10 minutes of time and he gets forgotten in the undercard.


----------



## Bret Hart (Mar 16, 2013)

It was a good match, the crowd just made it seem like it was better than it was. 

Not one of the best matches of all time, but still up there.


----------



## The Amazon (Sep 24, 2015)

The dick riding over a guy who acts like a fruit booty is disgusting. No wonder wrestling is in the shitter.

Also in the beginning of the match they arent even doing shit but a rest hold and the crowd chants "this is wrestling"

The crowd is full of morons like this forum


----------



## Municipal Waste (Jan 1, 2016)

I understand where the ***** argument is coming from, but I have to be conservative and rate at ****. I loved everything that happened and the crowd was electric for it, but I don't feel it went to the depths and extent of Shinsuke/AJ, which is ***** without doubt IMO.


----------



## BoJackson (Aug 30, 2012)

J'onn J'onzz said:


> It's not like they made an effort with him on the main roster.
> 
> Zayn was as over as he was in NXT because he's a natural sympathetic underdog and was actually booked as such. His treatment on the main roster was basically just throwing him into a feud with Owens and assuming everyone watches NXT and knows their personal history.


You're missing my point. I'm not saying Zayn CAN'T get over on the main roster. I'm simply saying being over on NXT means next to nothing compared to the main roster. If you took the most over guy on NXT and put him on Raw without any introduction (like they did with Zayn), you'd get crickets, because being over on Raw compared to NXT is an entirely different monster. It doesn't translate.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

The Amazon said:


> The dick riding over a guy who acts like a fruit booty is disgusting. No wonder wrestling is in the shitter.
> 
> Also in the beginning of the match they arent even doing shit but a rest hold and the crowd chants "this is wrestling"
> 
> The crowd is full of morons like this forum


Oh fuck off. To each their own in terms of in ring, but slamming Nakamura because *you* think he acts gay is so 1950s. Feel free to join us here in 2016. Better yet, don't watch his matches and keep your dumb ass, stone age opinions to yourself. If you wanna know why wrestling is in the shitter, go ask this guy :vince

As for the rest holds, since you're another one of those "anti-smark posters" and probably haven't any idea about non-WWE wrestling, in Japanese wrestling (known as puro), matches 99% of the time start that way. Its very slow and methodical, setting the initial tone and pace of the match, which eventually gets ramped up greatly after about 5 (sometimes longer) minutes. It acts as a way for each guy to kind of feel his opponent out in the very early goings and calculate his plan of attack. And in a way, it sets the pecking order of the match, as well. If a guy gets the best of his opponent during an initial exchange, it establishes him as higher on the totem pole than his opponent, which adds to the story and works when conveying momentum switches later on, when after a similar exchange, his opponent may best HIM this time. This is also what strike exchanges are used for, and why sometimes you'll see a few of them in a match.


----------



## The Amazon (Sep 24, 2015)

KO Bossy said:


> Oh fuck off. To each their own in terms of in ring, but slamming Nakamura because *you* think he acts gay is so 1950s. Feel free to join us here in 2016. Better yet, don't watch his matches and keep your dumb ass, stone age opinions to yourself. If you wanna know why wrestling is in the shitter, go ask this guy :vince
> 
> As for the rest holds, since you're another one of those "anti-smark posters" and probably haven't any idea about non-WWE wrestling, in Japanese wrestling (known as puro), matches 99% of the time start that way. Its very slow and methodical, setting the initial tone and pace of the match, which eventually gets ramped up greatly after about 5 (sometimes longer) minutes. It acts as a way for each guy to kind of feel his opponent out in the very early goings and calculate his plan of attack. And in a way, it sets the pecking order of the match, as well. If a guy gets the best of his opponent during an initial exchange, it establishes him as higher on the totem pole than his opponent, which adds to the story and works when conveying momentum switches later on, when after a similar exchange, his opponent may best HIM this time. This is also what strike exchanges are used for, and why sometimes you'll see a few of them in a match.


Did you copy and paste that or write it yourself. It was enlightening.


----------



## CesaroSection (Feb 15, 2014)

Everyone has to remember that wrestling is subjective and one persons 4 star is anothers 5. 

I do think aswell that crowd noise and their emotional investment in a match is all part of what makes it 4 or 5 stars. For me personally the match was getting towards 5 stars, but that is because I loved how involved the crowd were, I loved the theatrics of the match, the showmanship, it was perfect. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate that others won't have found it was enjoyable as me, they are entitled to that opinion and it doesn't make them wrong.


----------



## Lord Humongous (Feb 2, 2014)

geomon said:


> I know in this age of internet hyperbole and exaggeration and hype, what I have to say about this match will seem like more of the same.
> 
> This match, to me, is one of the best matches I have ever seen in my 30+ years of being a pro wrestling fan. It is easily one of the top 5 matches of all time. 5 stars doesn't cover it. This is an instant classic. This is the kind of match people should and I believe will be talking about 10, 20, 30 years later. Like a Flair/Steamboat or Macho/Steamboat, this belongs up there with them.


No. No. No. A debut match with no build, despite it being great, does not belong even in the same ball park as Flair/Steamboat or Macho/Steamboat. 

The AJ/ Nakamura match and the Ibushi/Nakamura match blows last nights Zayn/Nakamura match out it the water.


----------



## Reotor (Jan 8, 2016)

I don't know if this match is a 5* match, a 4* match or a 2* star match.
All I know is that I just finished watching it for the 5th time since yesterday and its still amazing just as the 1st time I did.:clap


----------



## Lord Humongous (Feb 2, 2014)

What you guys witnessed is strong style in WWE and your fragile little minds are having a hard time processing it.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

I watched the match again without distractions (no alcohol, no weed, no phone) and I stand by my previous rating of ****3/4.


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

The Amazon said:


> The dick riding over a guy who acts like a fruit booty is disgusting. No wonder wrestling is in the shitter.
> 
> Also in the beginning of the match they arent even doing shit but a rest hold and the crowd chants "this is wrestling"
> 
> The crowd is full of morons like this forum


Really? It's disgusting? How have you made it this far in life?


----------



## bonkertons (Aug 23, 2014)

BTW, I thought Phillips actually did a great job, but I can't help but feel that Mauro should be doing these Takeover events with Graves. It will make these epic big events feel just that much bigger.


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

After a second viewing, I stand firmly behind the rating of **** 1/2. Very great match. Best debut I've seen in quite a long time.


----------



## omni009 (Dec 11, 2014)

Just wanted to throw my opinion in there as a very long time wrestling fan. I haven't seen Nakamura, except that I know that he's in all the wrestle kingdom promo vids I've ever seen. This was my first time seeing him wrestle.

I don't think the match itself was a 5/5 even though it was quite good, but I really liked Nakamura. He does a lot of little things you don't really see anymore.


----------



## Cydewonder (Oct 4, 2013)

Probaly my 2nd fav WWE match of the year so far.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Homies, it's like this:

Different companies have different styles of wrestling. WWE being in a lot of ways the most restrictive of them all (Just look at the fuckery that Balor/Joe was later in the night.)

if you are an NJPW fan, what you saw last night may have been standard fare. Maybe in NJPW, that match gets about a 3-star rating as some have said. HOWEVER, this isn't NJPW we're dealing with here. Anyone that was expecting a Wrestle Kingdom-level match last night can only be classified as bonkers, and if that's what you were anticipating, you clearly haven't kept up with WWE as of late.

With all that in mind, I've given it some thought and in WWE terms? Not only is it MOTY, it is the best match in WWE since Bryan/Cena at Summerslam AT LEAST. By a mile.

Very rarely in a WWE match is everything cooking on all cylinders. It is a very serendipitous thing in this particular company when not only are the wrestlers into it, but the crowd AND commentators are. Very rarely do you see all three phases come together to really give a match that "Big-time" feel, especially with no build. This match was one of those times. No, it wasn't as "Brutal" a showcase of strong style as I've seen in even ROH before, but for WWE this was mania from wrestling heaven. You need to understand what a difference it is to the casual fan to see something like what they were able to pull off. Those men beat the tar out of each other with no reason to in this company at all, and gave us as close to an NJPW match as we will ever see in a WWE until things change. It was one of those matches that reminds a WWE fan why they keep watching this company. It was a showcase of everything WWE has the ability to BECOME, whereas Joe/Balor was an example of everything WWE should GET AWAY FROM.

For that reason alone, YES. You can rate it *****, In the same way you can rate Punk/Cena MITB '11 just as high. It was a prime example of everything RIGHT with wrestling in a world where everything, at least in WWE, is usually so ass-backwards it makes you ashamed to be a fan.

I was not ashamed to be a fan watching this match. In fact, I was proud. Damn proud.


----------



## RabbitHole (Mar 4, 2014)

I thought it was a great match. I don't need to argue over a made-up subjective star rating scale and call others morons because they typed one more or less * on the internet, because I'm not a child, but it was a very entertaining match. Nakamura's entrance was great except for the weird choppy things he was doing, but that's more cultural - I can see that weird shit being popular elsewhere. It's not a criticism. Very glad he was booked to win.


----------



## They LIVE (Aug 8, 2014)

I really like how WWE anointed him "KING OF STRONG STYLE" as they mentioned last night. 

Very simple and to the point.


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

It was great. Great entrance, nice music and a terrific match with SZ. Ever since HHH has taken over NXT it has been so good, with Takeover in particular. So much better also than Raw/SD. I was/am way more excited for Takeover than WM itself, and it did not disappoint.


----------



## Jonasolsson96 (Dec 31, 2014)

Listen I loved the match it was really good but all you people saying "it was the best match ive ever seen amagaaad" I'm glad you are that excited but imo this match wasnt in the top 10 of nakamura matches. So if you really loved the zayn match go back and watch his two matches with ibushi from wrestlekingdom and g1. Wrestlekingdom with aj styles. G1 finals with tanahashi and the list goes on.


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## Continuum (Sep 14, 2012)

i give the match 3/5. + i didnt cry...i'm a man!


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## Bomaye (Apr 2, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> if you are an NJPW fan, what you saw last night may have been standard fare. Maybe in NJPW, that match gets about a 3-star rating as some have said. HOWEVER, this isn't NJPW we're dealing with here. Anyone that was expecting a Wrestle Kingdom-level match last night can only be classified as bonkers, and if that's what you were anticipating, you clearly haven't kept up with WWE as of late.
> 
> With all that in mind, I've given it some thought and in WWE terms? Not only is it MOTY, it is the best match in WWE since Bryan/Cena at Summerslam AT LEAST. By a mile.


Was never expecting a WK-level match, I was expecting a more safe and filtered match that was still very good and that's what I got. You're right it wasn't a WK-level match so I rated it accordingly and gave it a 4/5, I don't see how giving it less that a 5/5 warrants insults from several other members but whatever.

Speaking of SummerSlam '13. Brock/Punk was a much better match than Cena/Bryan. I truly think that match will gather an audience over the years and become known as one of the all-time best WWE matches.


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## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Beatles123 said:


> if you are an NJPW fan, what you saw last night may have been standard fare. Maybe in NJPW, that match gets about a 3-star rating as some have said. HOWEVER, this isn't NJPW we're dealing with here. Anyone that was expecting a Wrestle Kingdom-level match last night can only be classified as bonkers, and if that's what you were anticipating, you clearly haven't kept up with WWE as of late.


Well, NJPW is my favorite wrestling company in the world, and Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura would've been a 5-star had it happened there too. I think it's actually probably better than any & every NJ match that I have ever seen. Could've main evented any Wrestle Kingdom. That 3-star/NJPW fan thing you mentioned is just stupid IMO. 5-star match is a 5-star match, regardless of where it happened. Some people think it wasn't a 5-star match, that is ok, some people think it was, that is ok too, BUT don't put NJPW on such a high pedestal; I've seen many people who also watch NJPW love that Nakamura/Zayn match, myself included. I am sorry, but this whole "what is a 5-Star match in WWE isn't that on NJPW" mindset annoyed me.


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## DaRealNugget (Nov 26, 2014)

it was a pretty good match. i wouldn't give it 5 stars, but it's my first nakamura match and i walked away from it as a fan of his.

what i would give 5 stars is nakamura's theme. that shit's dope as fuck.


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## chejser (Apr 3, 2016)

I don't really follow Nakamura or NXT, but I gave a shot to this Takeover. In my opinion this is one of the most overrated and overhyped matches I've seen. If it wasn't for the awesome crowd, I wouldn't remember it by the end of the night. It was as forgettable as the first WM Cena vs Rock match.


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## Pharmakon (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm going to be 100% honest, I'm not a hardcore wrestling fan so this is my first time watching Nakamura fight. However, I've read from other hardcore wrestling fans that he's one of the best ring performers ever. 

Zayn vs Nakamura was one of the best match I've seen so far in the past 4-5 years. It was unreal to see two of the best in-ring performers in the same ring. Matches like these don't happen often in the current WWE. I give this match an A+. The intensity of the crowd made it better. 

Nakamura's entrance was pretty amazing, too. 

I would like Nakamura to have a match with either Finn Balor or AJ Styles next.


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## Kristo09 (Apr 3, 2016)

I was there. All I have to say is holy shit... He's gonna be awesome


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## Reservoir Angel (Aug 7, 2010)

I know nothing of Shinsuke Nakamura going into this match. Had no expectations whatsoever.

That said... holy fucking shitballs! I'm calling it as match of the night. Might even be the best match of Wrestlemania weekend. Nakamura instantly had me marking for him. Even just the entrance and his whole manner and the swag of it all was amazing. Weird, and crazy, but amazing. And the match itself was exceptional in terms of just how much the put into it and how much everyone got out of it. THAT is what wrestling is, right there. The crowd chanting "this is wrestling" and "fight forever" pretty much shows just what kind of crazy awesome it was.

We need more of Nakamura right the fuck now. If that's what he can pull off in his debut match with no real build-up at all, I'd love to see what this guy does in a full-on feud with all the build and true storyline intensity to go with it.


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## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Wonder how many people here caught Nakamura's closed fist punch to Sami?

For the uninitiated, in Japan, usually its considered acceptable to do open palm strikes or forearm strikes. Punching someone with a closed fist is an illegal maneuver because of the potential damage it can cause. And as such, if you're watching New Japan or other puro and you see closed fists start flying, you know its getting intense. Which is why it was cool seeing Sami on the offensive and Nakamura just coming back by balling up his fist and decking him right in the side of the head. Really nice little puro spot that I dunno how many people knew about. Typically its used as a heel spot, but I've also seen it work for a babyface making a dramatic, fiery, passionate comeback (see: Kota Ibushi).


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## Brollins (Aug 24, 2015)

"Fight forever.." is all i can say. Amazing match, Nakamura is a boss and Zayn is great. If Mania has three matches half this good its a good Mania..


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## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

Botch-Sensei said:


> I'm going to be 100% honest, I'm not a hardcore wrestling fan so this is my first time watching Nakamura fight. However, I've read from other hardcore wrestling fans that he's one of the best ring performers ever.
> 
> Zayn vs Nakamura was one of the best match I've seen so far in the past 4-5 years. It was unreal to see two of the best in-ring performers in the same ring. Matches like these don't happen often in the current WWE. I give this match an A+. The intensity of the crowd made it better.
> 
> ...


You're Welcome

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4...ionship-match-wrestle-kingdom-10-4-1-16_sport


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## gabrielcev (Aug 23, 2014)

The match was spectacular, stiff, brutal, engaging and just fantastic. I could not even continue watching the show. I actually rewinded it and watched the match twice before I kept watching. Probably one of my favorite matches in NXT, no scratch that, that was the best match ever in the entire history of NXT.


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## Down_Under_Thunder (Jul 2, 2014)

chejser said:


> I don't really follow Nakamura or NXT, but I gave a shot to this Takeover. In my opinion this is one of the most overrated and overhyped matches I've seen. If it wasn't for the awesome crowd, I wouldn't remember it by the end of the night. It was as forgettable as the first WM Cena vs Rock match.


I agree I though it was almost unbearable. First 10 mins went at snail pace with not much happening after that it was good and Nakamura might be charismatic in japan but he just looked goofy in Nxt.


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## Japanese Puroresu (Jan 12, 2013)

KO Bossy said:


> Wonder how many people here caught Nakamura's closed fist punch to Sami?
> 
> For the uninitiated, in Japan, usually its considered acceptable to do open palm strikes or forearm strikes. Punching someone with a closed fist is an illegal maneuver because of the potential damage it can cause. And as such, if you're watching New Japan or other puro and you see closed fists start flying, you know its getting intense. Which is why it was cool seeing Sami on the offensive and Nakamura just coming back by balling up his fist and decking him right in the side of the head. Really nice little puro spot that I dunno how many people knew about. Typically its used as a heel spot, but I've also seen it work for a babyface making a dramatic, fiery, passionate comeback (see: Kota Ibushi).


Zayn hit him stiff 3 times and that was a receipt. He decked the shit out of him.


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## Dextro (Sep 21, 2015)

As people can assume, I loved the match. Not either's best match, but still a very entertaining one. I've been rewatching it over and over to clean my brain of the Wrestlemania Main Event. It feels surreal to see Nakamura in a WWE ring. I can't wait to see what happens next!


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## Martins (May 4, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Wonder how many people here caught Nakamura's closed fist punch to Sami?
> 
> For the uninitiated, in Japan, usually its considered acceptable to do open palm strikes or forearm strikes. Punching someone with a closed fist is an illegal maneuver because of the potential damage it can cause. And as such, if you're watching New Japan or other puro and you see closed fists start flying, you know its getting intense. Which is why it was cool seeing Sami on the offensive and Nakamura just coming back by balling up his fist and decking him right in the side of the head. Really nice little puro spot that I dunno how many people knew about. Typically its used as a heel spot, but I've also seen it work for a babyface making a dramatic, fiery, passionate comeback (see: Kota Ibushi).


Marked for that :mark:

I actually think Zayn worked the match in quite the Ibushi-like way, countering Nak's superior striking ability with fiery intensity. The spot that preceded that punch, with Nakamura draped over the second rope with Zayn stomping the living shit out of him actually seemed like a callback to the WK9 Ibushi match (or was it the 2013 one? Not sure anymore, but it was cool as fuck ).


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## doctor doom (Jun 26, 2007)

I notice a lot of the guys, like myself, that post in the "Other Wrestling" forum are rating this lower than those that post in the WWE forums and rightfully so. We know what these guys are really capable of if given 20m. I'd probably rate this somewhere around 4. Not as good as Nakamura vs Styles but still a great PPV match. It's actually the only reason I signed up for the free month of WWE network. Still i think that Okada vs Naito will be a better match next week.


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## BKendrickBestINTW (Sep 15, 2014)

Best American match in a while. Styles vs Nakamura was better, but it's at least as good as Meltzer's wet dream in Tanahashi vs Okada.


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## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

KO Bossy said:


> Wonder how many people here caught Nakamura's closed fist punch to Sami?
> 
> For the uninitiated, in Japan, usually its considered acceptable to do open palm strikes or forearm strikes. Punching someone with a closed fist is an illegal maneuver because of the potential damage it can cause. And as such, if you're watching New Japan or other puro and you see closed fists start flying, you know its getting intense. Which is why it was cool seeing Sami on the offensive and Nakamura just coming back by balling up his fist and decking him right in the side of the head. Really nice little puro spot that I dunno how many people knew about. Typically its used as a heel spot, but I've also seen it work for a babyface making a dramatic, fiery, passionate comeback (see: Kota Ibushi).


Oh yeah. I was actually annoyed because the camera angle was off, just as they should have done a close up for Nakamura's foot choke in the corner.

Nakamura usually does at least one closed fist spot in a lot of matches.


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## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

doctor doom said:


> I notice a lot of the guys, like myself, that post in the "Other Wrestling" forum are rating this lower than those that post in the WWE forums and rightfully so. We know what these guys are really capable of if given 20m. I'd probably rate this somewhere around 4. Not as good as Nakamura vs Styles but still a great PPV match. It's actually the only reason I signed up for the free month of WWE network. Still i think that Okada vs Naito will be a better match next week.


If you are familiar with his body of work, than yeah you'll know that this is Nakamura at about half Nakamura.

Still it's a testament to how good he is at how easy it is to re-watch his matches over and over. This was a great match, but just a good Nakamura match, and so far I've watched it 4 times. Plan to watch it again later.

I don't know if it's just the way he paces his matches, the realism and psychology, or what. His matches pop for some reason. They stick out. Even the plain old okay ones.


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## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

Dextro said:


> As people can assume, I loved the match. Not either's best match, but still a very entertaining one. I've been rewatching it over and over to clean my brain of the Wrestlemania Main Event. It feels surreal to see Nakamura in a WWE ring. I can't wait to see what happens next!


Lol i did the same thing, soon as WM ended i went and watched Zayn vs Nakamura in an attempt to cleanse my brain of the shit wrestling i saw on Mania.


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## They LIVE (Aug 8, 2014)

It was an intense match and probably my favorite on the card, but not completely sold on Nakamura YET.

Very weird, somewhat creepy and effeminate aura from him. 

Will take some getting used to, though from reading the comments that seems to be part of his appeal. 

For me it seems like the vibe I'd get from a dude creeping around a burusera shop in Tokyo or something over beating the shit out of a ginger in Texas.


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## RaheemRollins (Sep 15, 2014)

Was an incredible match.. Both guys were great. 

I love Nakamura's music too, perfect for the aftermath. 

I just wish Zayn wasn't going to the terrible main roster, wish he was staying in NXT.


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## Angelos (Aug 29, 2006)

First time seeing Nakamura wrestle..maybe that"s not all he can do based on the comments here from people who've watched his matches b4.. But that match was 5. From the hype in the intro, their entrance, the commentary, the crowd, the match itself and the finish. That was awesome.


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## Angelos (Aug 29, 2006)

Also kind of a bit surprised and concerned for Nakamura when Zayn used that michinuku driver. Is that move still allowed in WWE or Zayn just used the move for the heck of it?


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## They LIVE (Aug 8, 2014)

Angelos said:


> Also kind of a bit surprised and concerned for Nakamura when Zayn used that michinuku driver. Is that move still allowed in WWE or Zayn just used the move for the heck of it?



Ryback, Harper, Natalya, and some others have all used it occasionally. 

Viktor did a second rope Michinoku Driver to Neville a few months ago, too.


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## Yusuke Urameshi (Nov 21, 2015)

I never got to see this until now but I got to sit down and watch the whole special today

I've been familiar with Shinsuke's work since 06 and I was worried about him coming over to WWE in total fear that they wouldn't use him appropriately. Name one Asian wrestler that has been in the WWE that wasn't treated like absolute garbage and never given the respect they deserve.

If Shinsuke can't break through that mold, I cannot see anyone else that could. 

That being said, this match was phenomenal. It exceeded my expectations so much. I had to watch that match 4 times to soak it all in. Each time I watched it, it seemed to get better. 

When someone asks why you watch wrestling, you show them this match to make a fan out of them and see what it means to appreciate the art of professional wrestling.


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## The Batfleck (Apr 4, 2016)

Crimsonz said:


> I never got to see this until now but I got to sit down and watch the whole special today
> 
> I've been familiar with Shinsuke's work since 06 and I was worried about him coming over to WWE in total fear that they wouldn't use him appropriately. Name one Asian wrestler that has been in the WWE that wasn't treated like absolute garbage and never given the respect they deserve.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, there is still time for them to treat him like garbage.


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## Blommen (May 11, 2012)

After watching the match again and following it up with his match with Styles at WK 10, I stand by my initial score of 4.5. It was absolutely brilliant and completely different from the WK 10 match, but I still don't think it's a 5, nor do I think it was as good as the Styles match, which I don't think is a 5 star match either for that matter. When it comes to Nakamura, I still think his Ibushi match is the benchmark, his finest hour and that match is a stone cold 5, no questions asked. The Styles and Zayne matches were both spectacular in their own way but neither came reached that same level as the Ibushi match.


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## Masked Janos (Jan 3, 2012)

I've watched this match every day since Takeover at least once. That's how good it was. Nakamura's character, his presentation, his storytelling and in-ring ability are unprecedented in my opinion. Full package. Only thing going against him would be size and language skills (at the moment) and he's such an asskicker I don't think that will matter.


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## true rebel (May 31, 2011)

Masked Janos said:


> I've watched this match every day since Takeover at least once. That's how good it was. Nakamura's character, his presentation, his storytelling and in-ring ability are unprecedented in my opinion. Full package. Only thing going against him would be size and language skills (at the moment) and he's such an asskicker I don't think that will matter.


He's got a minor grasp of the English Language and seems to be able to deliver his lines effectively. As for size the guy is 6'2 and 229lbs. Hardly a small guy. He's also worked with and trained with Brock and Laurenitis always wanted him to come in. So he has plenty of allies in the company.


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## Lariatoh! (Apr 26, 2012)

I saw him in Tokyo in 2007, don't worry about size, the guy is a beast. He might be 6'2, but I'm 6' and I felt like he towered over me.


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