# Baron Corbin calls out AEW's spot and dive spamming



## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)




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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Wow, his look has changed. What happened to the long hair?


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## Roxinius (Jul 21, 2014)

aww it thinks people care about its opinion


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Little does he know, he’s just insulted the WWE fanbase as well. the guy is an idiot.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha it's nice to know he's watching AEW instead of NXT. Poor guy wishes he was talented enough to do those moves. So he's doing his best to crap on it. Even though he would love to be able to do that stuff haha.


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## Gabriella Savona (Jun 24, 2018)

Zzzzz, Cobin is a midcard wrestler at best


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Anyways...


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

imthegame19 said:


> Haha it's nice to know he's watching AEW instead of NXT. Poor guy wishes he was talented enough to do those moves. So he's doing his best to crap on it. Even though he would love to be able to do that stuff haha.


a former nfl player turned WWE superstar is jealous about someone doing flips and dives. lmao.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Thread should be fun seeing all the fans that can't take a shot.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Who cares what Corbin thinks. Enjoy what you enjoy. The rest of us will go back to ignoring anything Corbin ever does.


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## dolphin1989 (Jan 7, 2020)

Sounds pretty much just like WWE, now doesn't it.


Also he works for WWE, now would you really expect him to say something positive about the "competitor".


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## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

Both AEW and NXT opened with a crowd-pleasing spotfest. A lot of main roster PPVs do it too, and it ends up being the only thing on the show that gets a reaction from the crowd.

Corbin needs to check himself. "Stop liking what I don't like!!!!" is a bad look.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

I mean regardless of what you think about Corbin he's not wrong. The dives are spammed way too much.


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## Jman55 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cool? I mean he's honestly not inherently wrong but this is a wrestling as a whole issue not an AEW issue AEW just aren't an exception to the issue.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

_Literally poured dogfood on another wrestler.
Criticizes AEW's matches_


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

TheAppler said:


> a former nfl player turned WWE superstar is jealous about someone doing flips and dives. lmao.


Yes crappy NFL player and WWE star who people look at as horrible. Yes he should be jealous of guys like Page, Omega and Young Bucks.


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## Papadoc81 (Jun 3, 2015)

That’s some good heeling right there.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Yes crappy NFL player and WWE star who people look at as horrible. Yes he should be jealous of guys like Page, Omega and Young Bucks.


In a few years Corbin will be getting Miz like love.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

So.... watches AEW instead of NXT

i’ll post my tweet i sent to him / and this is what i believe

——
Legit, I always wonder about the logic of statements like these

There’s 8 guys in the match. They won’t be as tired as in singles, they won’t be pinned by a cover easily (broken up most likely), they’ll be a lot more intense as a result

Its like 7s rugby - its gonna be quicker

——-

what do people want? headlocks? GTFO


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> In a few years Corbin will be getting Miz like love.



Or he will be begging AEW for a job and love flippy floppy matches lol.


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## Jeripunk99 (Oct 16, 2017)

Has he watched NXT?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Or he will be begging AEW for a job and love flippy floppy matches lol.


Barring some scandal he's set, they're clearly all in on him as their top midcard heel. I remember when Miz was the worst thing ever with "go away heat" few years from now he'll be appreciated for being a big man that can talk and wrestle.


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## TheFiend666 (Oct 5, 2019)

AEW marks have been triggered...It's too easy lol


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## OwenSES (Jul 19, 2010)

Corbin is working. He's trying very hard to be the last real heel in prowrestling


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Hes a heel. 

This is obviously him working the Internet fans. And if it isn't, he's ridiculously stupid (and I don't think he is)


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

For someone trying to criticize AEW he sure seems to be talking about WWE match formula.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I am not a huge Corbin fan, but he is "spot" on about that tag match. It reeked of an indy high school gym.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Literally forgot he even exists until this story broke. Not gonna go as far as to say he's the reason I canceled the network, but he's definitely a good enough excuse not to get it back.

I guess it's a sign of the times, but it's still really sad that the only way to get "heat" is to be a piece of shit OUTSIDE the wrestling ring... fuck Corbin


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

LOL the same shit goes down in WWE Corbin, probably more than AEW


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## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

I agree with him actually in reference to the match he is referring to. You have a tag team title shot on the line and none of those 4 teams seemed concerned at all about actually trying to win the match. Every move was to get in position for the next move. Not all of AEWs matches are like this but their tag division seems to always go that direction. NXT does a similar style however they at least attempts some pinfalls to give the allusion that the competitors actually want to win


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> LOL the same shit goes down in WWE Corbin, probably more than AEW


There is a lot of cringe in WWE, but I have never seen four dudes pose for a whole minute plus trying to flip four other dudes only to have a guy with his hands in his pockets break the balance. The Bucks are the worst part of AEW. Tony needs to put his foot down and have one booker.


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

The hypocrisy here is hysterical. That match was better than anything Corbins ever done not to mention that the match on NXT at the same time literally followed the same model.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

I didnt mind the match until the stupid 8 guys sit there in suplex position till Orange Cassidy comes in thing. Like jeez. It was alright besides that.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RainmakerV2 said:


> I didnt mind the match until the stupid 8 guys sit there in suplex position till Orange Cassidy comes in thing. Like jeez. It was alright besides that.


That was high art


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> I am not a huge Corbin fan, but he is "spot" on about that tag match. It reeked of an indy high school gym.


Definitely something you would see in PWG. Like I read somewhere else, great to see when you are there live, but for TV a little too much.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Uhh that seems to be in character to me...

That being said, he was clearly talking about the 4-way tag which was kind of ridiculous to be fair.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

fabi1982 said:


> Definitely something you would see in PWG. Like I read somewhere else, great to see when you are there live, but for TV a little too much.


It is just dumb and obvious. They live in their small bubble and refuse to grow. Once they got put on a global show they got exposed and could not take the criticism. Now they deleted Twitter, stuck their fingers in their ears, and decided to keep doing their indy nonsense.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Its true we need tradional story telling wrestling that had a payoff and believable and im sure aew wrestling will go backwards in time at some point and fix this nonsnese. But its a shame cus i want classi variety of wrestling to like we had in wcw. Proper lucha libre, proper Japanese style and proper american stype. It will only benefit them in the long run.dont get me wrong crazy moves are called for but it should be built up to it and be fucking sold instead of seeing it 20 times a match in multiple matches flipping out of it like they are super heros


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> It is just dumb and obvious. They live in their small bubble and refuse to grow. Once they got put on a global show they got exposed and could not take the criticism. Now they deleted Twitter, stuck their fingers in their ears, and decided to keep doing their indy nonsense.


Definitely! All the others seem at least to try to adapt, but the Bucks just do their thing. But hey ratings and the „new“ contract seem to show that they are doing things right. So what do we know


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

corbin is 100% right.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

Dive...


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

fabi1982 said:


> Definitely! All the others seem at least to try to adapt, but the Bucks just do their thing. But hey ratings and the „new“ contract seem to show that they are doing things right. So what do we know


Most of the show is good. Some of it is cringe, like just about any show on TV. I have enjoyed the overall product for the most part. Better than bland WWE.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

There's definitely a place for the so-called "flippy" stuff. I enjoy watching the aerial stuff. 

But I do think AEW lacks great grapplers like the Undisputed Era (especially Kyle O'Reilly) and Daniel Bryan. Every wrestling company could use talented wrestlers like the Benoits, Malenkos and Guerreros.


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

I would agree with UE as an example if every Adam Cole match didnt follow the exact same layout Corbin is criticizing.

The 3rd match with Gargano in particular.


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## The Dude (Jan 1, 2020)

He’s 100% correct


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Roxinius said:


> aww it thinks people care about its opinion


He’s a top guy on a show watched by 2.5 million people every week. Um, I’d say that more people would care about his opinion than anyone on here and over the majority of the AEW locker room.



imthegame19 said:


> Haha it's nice to know he's watching AEW instead of NXT. Poor guy wishes he was talented enough to do those moves. So he's doing his best to crap on it. Even though he would love to be able to do that stuff haha.


Clips exist. I also really doubt a guy with a boxing and NFL background wishes he could be a Young Buck. 



DOTL said:


> _Literally poured dogfood on another wrestler.
> Criticizes AEW's matches_


I’d take dog food over dog shit. They have aliens, Brandi Rhodes and virgins beating people up.



imthegame19 said:


> Yes crappy NFL player and WWE star who people look at as horrible. Yes he should be jealous of guys like Page, Omega and Young Bucks.


Or he doesn’t give a fuck what you think when he gets paid more money to be seen by more people, get more pussy and hurt his body less? Just a thought. You’d have to be a real mark to think that he’s jealous of three guys getting hammered for their shitty booking, overdone matches and still wouldn’t be recognized on the street.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> So.... watches AEW instead of NXT
> 
> i’ll post my tweet i sent to him / and this is what i believe
> 
> ...


Links exist. Your tweet makes no sense. The alternative to a spotfest is not a headlock. Fuck’s sake.



MJF said:


> Hes a heel.
> 
> This is obviously him working the Internet fans. And if it isn't, he's ridiculously stupid (and I don't think he is)


Or it’s just an educated opinion on wresting.



Lheurch said:


> There is a lot of cringe in WWE, but I have never seen four dudes pose for a whole minute plus trying to flip four other dudes only to have a guy with his hands in his pockets break the balance. The Bucks are the worst part of AEW. Tony needs to put his foot down and have one booker.


Holy shit, that sounds awful. You’re absolutely right about the booker situation. It is becoming _painfully_ obviously. They’re even starting to crack under pressure and admit it themselves.



Taroostyles said:


> The hypocrisy here is hysterical. That match was better than anything Corbins ever done not to mention that the match on NXT at the same time literally followed the same model.


Corbin’s had better matches with Chad Gable. And I’m pretty sure he had a good one with AJ Styles.



Geeee said:


> Uhh that seems to be in character to me...
> 
> That being said, he was clearly talking about the 4-way tag which was kind of ridiculous to be fair.


There are plenty of wrestlers, especially ones with a certain kind of training, who genuinely hold values. Especially if they came through a certain strand of developmental. OVW guys would be disgusted by this sort of shit. They actually had to learn and do things properly, and now some fuckers just come and blow it all up?

Corbin came through the Performance Center, but he may have been sent to seminars with Rip Rogers, or travelled on Randy Orton’s bus a few times.


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## DoctorWhosawhatsit (Aug 23, 2016)

... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the asshole that had a dog food match?


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> I’d take dog food over dog shit. They have aliens, Brandi Rhodes and virgins beating people up.


The fact you make the distinction between the two says all we need to know.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

I know that he's trying to work the fans but imagine Corbin saying that he's a better worker than all the people in that match.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

> Links exist. Your tweet makes no sense. The alternative to a spotfest is not a headlock. Fuck’s sake


your continued existence on the AEW board makes no sense mate.

what i said makes perfect sense - i’m not gonna spoon feed you the nuance. What’s next, I should chew your food for you too?


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

The dives are too much, even you have 50+ year old DDP doing top rope moves you need to calm down, lessens the impact when actual high flyers do them if everyone does them


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

reyfan said:


> The dives are too much, even you have 50+ year old DDP doing top rope moves you need to calm down, lessens the impact when actual high flyers do them if everyone does them


The dives..... are a feature! i want more dives, which cancels out your call for less dives


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## Purple Haze (Sep 30, 2019)

The same can be said about some NXT matches, and both AEW and NXT are much better than the boring raw and smackdown.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

I'm not a fan of Corbin but he is right. That style of work is a disgrace to pro wrestling.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

The Wood said:


> He’s a top guy on a show watched by 2.5 million people every week. Um, I’d say that more people would care about his opinion than anyone on here and over the majority of the AEW lockerse
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He lived with Taker for a while.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

RainmakerV2 said:


> He lived with Taker for a while.


Do you reckon Taker would fuck with people and come in at night with the Undertaker hat on, say "rest in peace" then switch of their light and slowly walk off?


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## Uchiha Ghost (Nov 16, 2019)

From the amount of salt in this thread. I can guess the marks got triggered.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

RainmakerV2 said:


> He lived with Taker for a while.


Taker does dives. (well he used to) And Old School is an obviously cooperative acrobatic spot. 

Meltzer Driver is a tombstone piledriver.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Geeee said:


> Taker does dives. (well he used to) And Old School is an obviously cooperative acrobatic spot.
> 
> Meltzer Driver is a tombstone piledriver.


Taker would do 1 a match, not every 30 seconds.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

I want more dives. I wanna see JR tope suicida onto Jericho tbh.

I mean 1.2 milli people enjoy dives and spots. why should 1 person matter? What if they cater to those few whiners on the Internet and lose 1.2 million people? Some of you clearly have never run a business in your life.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Wridacule said:


> Literally forgot he even exists until this story broke. Not gonna go as far as to say he's the reason I canceled the network, but he's definitely a good enough excuse not to get it back.
> 
> I guess it's a sign of the times, but it's still really sad that the only way to get "heat" is to be a piece of shit OUTSIDE the wrestling ring... fuck Corbin


Giving his opinion on AEW makes him a "piece of shit"? I happen to agree with his assessment of AEW does that make me a piece of shit too? 

AEW's tag team division is 100% video game wrestling, top to bottom, with no restraint and no psychology, I find it completely unwatchable. I know all of wrestling leans more towards the spotfest every day, you might see a videogame match anywhere on any card for any company, including WWE, but only the AEW tag team division has a videogame match _every single match._



V-Trigger said:


> I know that he's trying to work the fans but imagine Corbin saying that he's a better worker than all the people in that match.


Define "working". He's definitely better at selling and psychology.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

V-Trigger said:


> I know that he's trying to work the fans but imagine Corbin saying that he's a better worker than all the people in that match.


Yep, you're right. It's pretty funny how EVERYONE in that Fatal-4-Way tag match is a better wrestler than Baron Corbin ever will be 

That match (which was a lower-tier MOTY candidate) clearly needed more dog food 



Wridacule said:


> but it's still really sad that the only way to get "heat" is to be a piece of shit OUTSIDE the wrestling ring... fuck Corbin


Yea, it probably doesn't help that he sounds like one too


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Giving his opinion on AEW makes him a "piece of shit"? I happen to agree with his assessment of AEW does that make me a piece of shit too?
> 
> AEW's tag team division is 100% video game wrestling, top to bottom, with no restraint and no psychology, I find it completely unwatchable. I know all of wrestling leans more towards the spotfest every day, you might see a videogame match anywhere on any card for any company, including WWE, but only the AEW tag team division has a videogame match _every single match._



Sometimes a day in the office makes a mountain out of a mole hill. I may have been a bit harsh with my delivery. But naw bro. His assessment of aew does not make him a piece of shit. I just get sick of how people fish for heat these days. 

Everything is so meta.. kayfabe being dead makes people do things outside of the ring to try and get booed. Look at someone like ciampa. I dont ever remember social media posts being the source of his boos. He managed to get heat without being a dick on Twitter. 

Also there's kind of a pot and kettle situation there like a lot of people have stated here. Adam Cole hit a destroyer on the floor that didn't end a match. How is that not video game? How is richochet or Mustafa Ali not video game? And dont get me wrong I love that shit!

And man finally.. randy orton have already done this schtick a few years ago. He could've at least been original with his jabs. Like what's the end goal? Aew fans gonna tune in or buy tickets just to boo him?


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Define "working". He's definitely better at selling and psychology.


It was a 4 way tag team match, practically every 4 way tag I've ever seen could be classified as a spotfest. Those kinds of matches are designed to be that way.

And Corbin is not better than any of those guys at either of those things. All of those guys know how to work different kinds of matches.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Wridacule said:


> Sometimes a day in the office makes a mountain out of a mole hill. I may have been a bit harsh with my delivery. But naw bro. His assessment of aew does not make him a piece of shit. I just get sick of how people fish for heat these days.
> 
> Everything is so meta.. kayfabe being dead makes people do things outside of the ring to try and get booed. Look at someone like ciampa. I dont ever remember social media posts being the source of his boos. He managed to get heat without being a dick on Twitter.
> 
> ...


I don't see why you assume he's working, he didn't even mention AEW by name. Social media has created this weird dichotomy for wrestlers where sometimes they're in character and sometimes they aren't, how do we know this isn't the man Thomas Pestock giving his opinion on some shit he saw like 99.9% of other Twitter users? 

Ciampa literally spoiled Avengers Endgame on Twitter to get heat.

Maybe Corbin hates the videogame wrestling in WWE too but he can't criticize it without getting in trouble, I don't see it as the pot calling the kettle black unless he's the one taking Canadian Destroyers on concrete and kicking out at 2.

Again it might not be a schtick, there might not be an end goal, Twatter is just a bunch of self absorbed people who think their opinions matter more than they do, there usually isn't some grand design. If Corbin said he found the Mandalorian boring people would be like "look at Corbin heeling it up" and it's like no, maybe he legit just found it boring.



Taroostyles said:


> It was a 4 way tag team match, practically every 4 way tag I've ever seen could be classified as a spotfest. Those kinds of matches are designed to be that way.
> 
> And Corbin is not better than any of those guys at either of those things. All of those guys know how to work different kinds of matches.


Well I can't speak to the kinds of matches they worked outside of AEW except Omega because I never watched and/or heard of the rest, but since AEW has started I've not seen any selling or psychology from these guys, regardless of whether it was a 4 way spotfest or not.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

He's 100% correct, I don't even know how anyone would defend the illogical choreographed flippity spotfests? 

AEW's strength is in their characters, not their in-ring work.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I don't see why you assume he's working, he didn't even mention AEW by name. Social media has created this weird dichotomy for wrestlers where sometimes they're in character and sometimes they aren't, how do we know this isn't the man Thomas Pestock giving his opinion on some shit he saw like 99.9% of other Twitter users?
> 
> Ciampa literally spoiled Avengers Endgame on Twitter to get heat.
> 
> ...



You know I've never considered that for even a second, lol..! I guess that's what I get for going off of 3rd hand information. I read about "so and so healing it up on twitter" and just take the news for what it is. Never thought for a second that he might just be speaking his mind and not "working me bro" You and your logic and reason... I'm sitting here feeling pretty silly.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Wridacule said:


> Sometimes a day in the office makes a mountain out of a mole hill. I may have been a bit harsh with my delivery. But naw bro. His assessment of aew does not make him a piece of shit. I just get sick of how people fish for heat these days.
> 
> Everything is so meta.. kayfabe being dead makes people do things outside of the ring to try and get booed. Look at someone like ciampa. I dont ever remember social media posts being the source of his boos. He managed to get heat without being a dick on Twitter.
> 
> ...



MJF wearing a shirt saying " I banged Dallas' daughter" isnt meta? Isnt he the greatest heel of all time?


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Purple Haze said:


> The same can be said about some NXT matches, and both AEW and NXT are much better than the boring raw and smackdown.


I need to ask. When someone criticizes AEW do the super fans see "AEW does this wrong and WWE does it right" instead of just "AEW does this wrong". Because most people aren't comparing the two companies. WWE sucks too. Corbin is obviously working you all and you're all biting. AEW would benefit from toning down the spotfests slightly. Like we didn't need that 9 man suplex or every single one of the tope suicidas with wrestlers looking like they're trying to catch them. 

Can we just agree that there is a healthy middle ground that this company needs to achieve?


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, you're right. It's pretty funny how EVERYONE in that Fatal-4-Way tag match is a better wrestler than Baron Corbin ever will be
> 
> That match (which was a lower-tier MOTY candidate) clearly needed more dog food
> 
> ...


It's either a match of the year candidate or it's not. There's no such thing as a low-tier MOTY candidate..


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## Mateus Tunes (Sep 13, 2016)

Baron Corbin is one of the main reasons why I stopped watching WWE. His rivalry with Rollins was one of the worst things I've seen in the main event in a long time.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

That LARPER boring as fuck, only a Toddler would be entertained with his stupid Roman Reigns Purina feud.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> It's either a match of the year candidate or it's not. There's no such thing as a low-tier MOTY candidate..


It's a MOTY candidate. It just happens to be on the lower side of my 2020 MOTY list.

I thought that was pretty clear.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Lol, NXT has more spot monkeys then AEW does


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

So many discussions in this thread. Who cares what BARON CORBIN has to say, really? He's just working internet, that's all.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The XL 2 said:


> Lol, NXT has more spot monkeys then AEW does


How do you know he wasn't talking about NXT? Trying to build the Rumble as Him VS the spot monkey NXT Superstars? I can't be bothered working it out but I wonder if NXT has a higher percentage of spot monkeys, as their roster is way bigger than AEW's


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> It's a MOTY candidate. It just happens to be on the lower side of my 2020 MOTY list.
> 
> I thought that was pretty clear.


It's just not how the word works man. It's either a candidate or it's not. If you already know it's not going to win your MOTY than it's not a candidate at all


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RBrooks said:


> So many discussions in this thread. Who cares what BARON CORBIN has to say, really? He's just working internet, that's all.


It really does not matter who said it. This is the ad hominem logical fallacy. His point is right on its own. if you are going to argue, argue the point, not the person. The point is 100% accurate.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Also for those who do have to compare AEW and WWE constantly, the difference between the spots is that the big spots matter in WWE. I'd say its something they focus on at NXT Developmental, because there's massive differences in a lot of the indie guys abilities to sell that they've just jumped over or through the top rope and landed on a solid ground. PAC and Darby did it well as well and I daresay PAC brought the ability to sell over from his previous employer. 

Holding your neck for three seconds and then launching yourself out of the ring isn't good selling. The Bucks would have benefited amazingly from a year at NXT developmental


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> Also for those who do have to compare AEW and WWE constantly, the difference between the spots is that the big spots matter in WWE. I'd say its something they focus on at NXT Developmental, because there's massive differences in a lot of the indie guys abilities to sell that they've just jumped over or through the top rope and landed on a solid ground. PAC and Darby did it well as well and I daresay PAC brought the ability to sell over from his previous employer.
> 
> Holding your neck for three seconds and then launching yourself out of the ring isn't good selling. The Bucks would have benefited amazingly from a year at NXT developmental


The Bucks would never go to NXT. They are too big in their own minds. AEW has Arn and Tully on staff but the tag team division is not benefiting from that. The Bucks have said in many interviews they do not care are all about what has worked in wrestling, they are going to spam their super kicks and spit in the face of the business. They managed to get themselves on a global stage thanks to Tony and they got exposed really quick. The tag division in AEW is laughable. Tony needs to tap Arn and Tully to take over the tag program.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> The Bucks would never go to NXT. They are too big in their own minds. AEW has Arn and Tully on staff but the tag team division is not benefiting from that. The Bucks have said in many interviews they do not care are all about what has worked in wrestling, they are going to spam their super kicks and spit in the face of the business. They managed to get themselves on a global stage thanks to Tony and they got exposed really quick. The tag division in AEW is laughable. Tony needs to tap Arn and Tully to take over the tag program.


I know they'd never go but that isn't my point. A lot of the AEW wrestlers have skipped certain steps on what a professional wrestler should do, instead showing off what they can do. Even though what they can do looks incredible, it just lacks psychology and in turn, makes it especially difficult to believe that these wrestlers actually want to win a fight.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> I know they'd never go but that isn't my point. A lot of the AEW wrestlers have skipped certain steps on what a professional wrestler should do, instead showing off what they can do. Even though what they can do looks incredible, it just lacks psychology and in turn, makes it especially difficult to believe that these wrestlers actually want to win a fight.


The Bucks have zero psychology. They ignored everyone who took the time to try and help them learn. The Bucks have never appeared to want to win a fight, they are interested in performing their spots. It is why AEW has been so hit and miss, The single guys booking has been good and the tag guys has been a mess.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

I'd rather watch this Dynamite's opening 10x than watch 1 original Corbin match. Bucks love doing spotfests but at least they're engaging & entertaining and connect with the crowd. You have to witness Bucks live and feel that raw energy and unpredictability -- it doesn't translate over the TV too well.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> I'd rather watch this Dynamite's opening 10x than watch 1 original Corbin match. Bucks love doing spotfests but at least they're engaging & entertaining and connect with the crowd. You have to witness Bucks live and feel that raw energy and unpredictability -- it doesn't translate over the TV too well.


I agree Dynamite is 10x better than anything on RAW or Smackdown. The Bucks know how to work a high school gym, not a national or global audience. They refuse to learn from the veterans they have literally at their disposal. I really hope Tony realizes that and takes away their booking power.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> I agree Dynamite is 10x better than anything on RAW or Smackdown. The Bucks know how to work a high school gym, not a national or global audience. They refuse to learn from the veterans they have literally at their disposal. I really hope Tony realizes that and takes away their booking power.


Their cocky attitude is a gimmick they formed out of when it was reported they didn't shake hands with Booker T. Booker T since had them on his podcast and they explained everything. So their whole "cocky we know everything" is just an act


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> I'd rather watch this Dynamite's opening 10x than watch 1 original Corbin match. Bucks love doing spotfests but at least they're engaging & entertaining and connect with the crowd. You have to witness Bucks live and feel that raw energy and unpredictability -- it doesn't translate over the TV too well.


Unpredictability? We all know what we are getting with them. Every move and every match is laid out and choreographed with them. Listening to most wrestling veterans, they rarely laid out any matches ahead of time. They called it in the ring. The Bucks and WWE hilariously have one thing in common: the WWE scripts all promos and the Bucks script their matches.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Unpredictability? We all know what we are getting with them. Every move and every match is laid out and choreographed with them. Listening to most wrestling veterans, they rarely laid out any matches ahead of time. They called it in the ring. The Bucks and WWE hilariously have one thing in common: the WWE scripts all promos and the Bucks script their matches.


They've said many times a lot of it is improvised. Like the match with Lucha Bros... they said that given Lucha Bros wrestle 4-5 times a week and arrive 30 minutes before the event starts and don't speak English.. they had to do a lot of improvising which ironically looks very scripted and choreographed ... it's kind of like when a really good rapper freestyles and you can't tell if it's written because it sounds so good with the multi's & bars as if it had to be written


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> Their cocky attitude is a gimmick they formed out of when it was reported they didn't shake hands with Booker T. Booker T since had them on his podcast and they explained everything. So their whole "cocky we know everything" is just an act


I am fine with cocky gimmicks, that is heel 101. But is there genuinely any evidence I have missed where they have bothered to learn anything or change? They pop up after devastating moves constantly. They do their dumb super kick spamming and then are ready for the next set of moves 18 seconds later. What am I missing?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> They've said many times a lot of it is improvised. Like the match with Lucha Bros... they said that given Lucha Bros wrestle 4-5 times a week and arrive 30 minutes before the event starts and don't speak English.. they had to do a lot of improvising which ironically looks very scripted and choreographed ... it's kind of like when a really good rapper freestyles and you can't tell if it's written because it sounds so good with the multi's & bars it had to be written


If that is true, it is pretty interesting to me. Because it really does look rehearsed. I actually like the Lucha Bros. too.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> I'd rather watch this Dynamite's opening 10x than watch 1 original Corbin match. Bucks love doing spotfests but at least they're engaging & entertaining and connect with the crowd. You have to witness Bucks live and feel that raw energy and unpredictability -- it doesn't translate over the TV too well.


Unfortunately their job isn't only to entertain a crowd of a few hundred people anymore. They have to evolve.

I doubt they are being honest when they say a lot of it is improvised. There's no way they have enough time to explain to their opponent what is going to happen with a lot of those spots


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> They've said many times a lot of it is improvised. Like the match with Lucha Bros... they said that given Lucha Bros wrestle 4-5 times a week and arrive 30 minutes before the event starts and don't speak English.. they had to do a lot of improvising which ironically looks very scripted and choreographed ... it's kind of like when a really good rapper freestyles and you can't tell if it's written because it sounds so good with the multi's & bars as if it had to be written


And it is not like they are Brock Lesnar. They are both under six feet and not exactly built. Moves have to mean something at the end of the day. I can believe if Brock kicks out after a super kick. A Buck kicking out after a devastating finisher? Absolutely not.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> And it is not like they are Brock Lesnar. They are both under six feet and not exactly built. Moves have to mean something at the end of the day. I can believe if Brock kicks out after a super kick. A Buck kicking out after a devastating finisher? Absolutely not.


It's just their style is very different. With kayfabe dying so is selling


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> It's just their style is very different. With kayfabe dying so is selling


But kayfabe died decades ago. I am interested in really knowing your perspective though. Do you view wrestling as like watching a movie where power levels are not based on reality? I mean, I love Marvel movies as much as anyone, but for wrestling I view it more like a normal human in sports. Is there a desire to have small guys be unbeatable because they have charisma? I guess there could be a place for that, but given AEW's emphasis of a sports-like presentation I expected more selling and less theatrics.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> It's just their style is very different. With kayfabe dying so is selling


Fucking hell. This is the saddest thing I've seen someone say on here. I thought they were being sarcastic when they claimed to be "killing the business" but this will do me. If they are actively intending to kill selling then I want them gone. They have no place in the business


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

I wish Corbin would just "go away".


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> Fucking hell. This is the saddest thing I've seen someone say on here. I thought they were being sarcastic when they claimed to be "killing the business" but this will do me. If they are actively intending to kill selling then I want them gone. They have no place in the business


It literally goes against everything wrestling has ever meant and more importantly what AEW has said about themselves: it will be a sports presentation. People having super powers make for fun movies, but movies have to follow their own rules. If AEW wants to have super people, I am just not interested in watching. Actual athletics has to be part of wrestling in my opinion. If not, just go ahead and have CGI characters flipping around. Why not? Actually, now that I mentioned that I have no doubt that will be the next thing. Bucks fighting against digital aliens and going over. If you want to create something new with super powers and no selling at least have the respect to call it a new word. When you create a company with the word Wrestling in its name, many of us have expectations.


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> The Bucks have zero psychology. They ignored everyone who took the time to try and help them learn. The Bucks have never appeared to want to win a fight, they are interested in performing their spots. It is why AEW has been so hit and miss, The single guys booking has been good and the tag guys has been a mess.


You are completely and utterly wrong here. For the last few years, the Young Bucks have been flashy, flippy, arrogant assholes because that is what their CHARACTERS are!! Unnecessary moves and showing off to the camera (wearing tassels) instead of pinning someone is what they do and its how they entice a crowd. More so, they do it brilliantly! 

Its just that to me, the WWE marks seem to have forgotten (or never knew) what psychology is! And before you accuse me of being a WWE hater, it *is* almost ALWAYS WWE fans accusing NON-WWE wrestlers of having a lack of psychology.

Have you and others on this thread actually watched a Young Bucks match?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> I know that he's trying to work the fans but imagine Corbin saying that he's a better worker than all the people in that match.


Corbin is a better worker than anyone else in that match. I’m not a fan of the guy, but come on. Page is raw potential, Omega cannot properly work, Private Party are green as fuck, The Bucks can’t sell and have no psychology and Santana and Ortiz are whatever. Corbin is also whatever, but he’s a higher tier of ehateber



LifeInCattleClass said:


> your continued existence on the AEW board makes no sense mate.
> 
> what i said makes perfect sense - i’m not gonna spoon feed you the nuance. What’s next, I should chew your food for you too?


No, it doesn’t. You make your post like things speeding up is inherently good, and that guys get to take a break. Wtf? 



Geeee said:


> Taker does dives. (well he used to) And Old School is an obviously cooperative acrobatic spot.
> 
> Meltzer Driver is a tombstone piledriver.


No one is saying shit about sensible dives. 



Taroostyles said:


> It was a 4 way tag team match, practically every 4 way tag I've ever seen could be classified as a spotfest. Those kinds of matches are designed to be that way.
> 
> And Corbin is not better than any of those guys at either of those things. All of those guys know how to work different kinds of matches.


So don’t do those matches.



Gh0stFace said:


> It's just their style is very different. With kayfabe dying so is selling


It’s just their style is very bad.*


----------



## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

Agree with his point in general...But hey its not like WWE superstars set a high inring standard in general....Sadly its more the norm these days to do acrobatics than tell a story.. ...Plus in a world where any PR is good PR, not a good advert when you're indirectly promoting the show of your opponent?


----------



## wattyaknow (Oct 2, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Unpredictability? We all know what we are getting with them. Every move and every match is laid out and choreographed with them. Listening to most wrestling veterans, they rarely laid out any matches ahead of time. They called it in the ring. The Bucks and WWE hilariously have one thing in common: the WWE scripts all promos and the Bucks script their matches.


Absolutely guaranteed to start with them diving & ducking from the opponents moves with it ending in either them both evading a move at the same time or both drop kicking eachother at the same time, then to stare at eachother for a few seconds while the fans lap it up before looking around at the crowd as if they just did some amazing spot.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Oh God and I thought Dave Meltzer was fucking dumb with his reaction. Seems like you guys got more worked than he did. I don't think many people here understand what a work or a joke is. But of course people on here could never possibly ever get worked by wrestling because "They have such high IQs that they would never fall for such obvious bait."

You guys seriously need a fucking life if that riles you up.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Why do people think Baron Corbin is trying to work the fans instead of him legitimately not liking videogame wrestling? Dude was trained in FCW/NXT by old school guys like Bill DeMott, Tom Pritchard, Fit Finlay, Dusty Rhodes, Norman Smiley and Robbie Brookside, the guy has Undertaker as his mentor. Everything AEW stands for is antithetical to what he was taught wrestling was supposed to be.

Are we assuming all wrestlers like the flip floppy spotfest style and if they say otherwise it's just because they're trying to get heat?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Why do people think Baron Corbin is trying to work the fans instead of him legitimately not liking videogame wrestling? Dude was trained in FCW/NXT by old school guys like Bill DeMott, Tom Pritchard, Fit Finlay, Dusty Rhodes, Norman Smiley and Robbie Brookside, the guy has Undertaker as his mentor. Everything AEW stands for is antithetical to what he was taught wrestling was supposed to be.
> 
> Are we assuming all wrestlers like the flip floppy spotfest style and if they say otherwise it's just because they're trying to get heat?


100%

Dave Meltzer’s reaction was pretty hilarious.


----------



## toon126 (Nov 10, 2015)

Has he watched his own show lately? Not a single wrestler on WWE's roster has a single clue how to work out new spots.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Little does he know, he’s just insulted the WWE fanbase as well. the guy is an idiot.


Yes....didn't he just put down every NXT main event?


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

I know he's a heel trying to get heat and all, but really when you're the Burger King mascot of WWE and you rely heavily on chin locks and your work is BARELY above the shits... It kind of hurts your credibility.

Randy Orton is boring as fuck, but he's also good. He can say shit like this and not look like a joke.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

He'll be begging them for a job in a year or two when Vince gets tired of him.


----------



## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

And yet still better than any match Corbin could ever have


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> But kayfabe died decades ago. I am interested in really knowing your perspective though. Do you view wrestling as like watching a movie where power levels are not based on reality? I mean, I love Marvel movies as much as anyone, but for wrestling I view it more like a normal human in sports.


There is a loud contingent of wrestling fans who feel that because it's a 'work' that there need be no semblance of reality or logic. They're easily spotted; they defend Joey Ryan's dick spot to the end of days and argue for intergender wrestling because Irish Whip.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Yeah right.. Because taunt, resthold, resthold, chinlock, chinlock, taunt, chinlock, taunt, taunt, taunt, taunt, taunt, resthold, taunt, taunt, chinlock, taunt combo is so much better. : /


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LongPig666 said:


> You are completely and utterly wrong here. For the last few years, the Young Bucks have been flashy, flippy, arrogant assholes because that is what their CHARACTERS are!! Unnecessary moves and showing off to the camera (wearing tassels) instead of pinning someone is what they do and its how they entice a crowd. More so, they do it brilliantly!
> 
> Its just that to me, the WWE marks seem to have forgotten (or never knew) what psychology is! And before you accuse me of being a WWE hater, it *is* almost ALWAYS WWE fans accusing NON-WWE wrestlers of having a lack of psychology.
> 
> Have you and others on this thread actually watched a Young Bucks match?


I have no problem with arrogant heels being flashy and showing off/not going for a pin all the time, etc. But...the Bucks are not heels in AEW. I wish they were, their faces are so punchable! What sense does it make for a face not to try and win a match? The flashy stuff I can forgive, but not the lack of ring psychology and the obvious choreography. And most egregiously, the lack of selling and making what was once a strong move like a super kick pretty much completely worthless.

I have no problem hating on WWE. They have fallen so far the past fifteen years, it is incredible. A lot of their talent certainly have not learned much psychology either.

I have seen every match presented to me so far on Dynamite. I have not watched Dark or any of the stuff on YouTube. The only match they had that I enjoyed was against Dustin and Cody, but it went way too long.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Soooo...where is this US wrestling show that has psychology and isn’t a spotfest?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Soooo...where is this US wrestling show that has psychology and isn’t a spotfest?


Archived on the WWE Network, unfortunately.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Archived on the WWE Network, unfortunately.


That’s what I thought.

And I don’t mean that in the sarcastic way. I’m all for a return to it, but I understand there has been a shift. Maybeit could work to bring it back, but for the time being, I’ve adapted and accepted what is today’s professional wrestling.

New Japan really does a great job. I wish I’d started watching them A LOT sooner.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> That’s what I thought.
> 
> And I don’t mean that in the sarcastic way. I’m all for a return to it, but I understand there has been a shift. Maybeit could work to bring it back, but for the time being, I’ve adapted and accepted what is today’s professional wrestling.
> 
> New Japan really does a great job. I wish I’d started watching them A LOT sooner.


I know a lot of people take criticism of spotfests (not saying you do) as criticizing all dives and flips. For me, I do not mind dives and flips as long as they are not over done or look overly choreographed. I understand the business evolves and the same thing happened in the 80's and 90's to the really old school fans: "Who is this flashy Shawn Michaels guy diving outside and pointing to his crotch?" So I get some of it is resistance to change. I like entertaining, fast paced matches, I just hate four guys who are supposed to be fighting standing outside with the arms in the air ready to catch another guy. There are ways to do those spots and make them look good, but everyone seems to have to do them now, and not everyone is good at making them look good. Also, if you are going to bother hitting a big move and risk your body, it needs to mean something. If your opponent is up and ready to go eight seconds later, why bother pulling off that movie in the first place?


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Why do people here keep acting like Corbin cares what NXT does? Lmao. Because thats how Meltzer responded to his tweet? I wouldn't be surprised if Corbin hasn't watched an episode of NXT since he left. Its a totally different place than when he was there.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT is also, at least partially, designed to be a boutique product comparable to AEW. It obviously makes more sense and the work is better, but it’s designed to appeal to the same hardcore wrestling nerd.

And there’s a different between using dives at all, or even too much, and using them as much as an AEW-style spotfest. I don’t much like how everyone works the same in WWE either, but no one is doing dive, dive, dive, dive, dive, etc. They’re overused as punctuation, but they’re still punctuation.


----------



## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

Corbin is not entirely wrong. However, I like the obligatory spotfest match (if they are done right they can be awesome). Corbin however has been part of some awful shit in the past year (not all his fault) so him being the critic is kind of laughable. I don't even hate or dislike Corbin I think he has a place on the card. NXT is way worse like some have said than AEW in terms of spotfests.


----------



## elo (Oct 25, 2006)

With the limited time each person gets in the ring to shine in an 8 man match you are going to get a fast-paced choreographed spotfest, that's really the only way to book it and it's what the audience expects. The match had it's storytelling moments between The Elite and Hangman, Cassidy also got his spot in to continue to get his gimmick over. If Corbin had been watching NXT he would have a seen a couple of spotty tag matches on there too - this is the norm for tag team wrestling now.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Seafort said:


> Yes....didn't he just put down every NXT main event?


How do we know he wasn't talking about NXT though? The guy has spent his entire main roster career giving the small flippy guys shit on TV, Sheamus just said on TV that the small guys are shit as well, without the controversy. It's obviously him playing into his character that big is better. The same people who are claiming "The BuCks ArE wOrKIng" by acting like salty bitches online (Aren't they faces trying to gain viewers for their new company) are whinging about Corbin working too. Weird


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

This thread has been just as funny as I thought. Folk can't handle shots when they're not directed at the acceptable targets.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

He isn't wrong tho, but that's a major problem with modern pro wrestling, not just AEW.

But ain't wrong, he ain't fucking wrong.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

elo said:


> With the limited time each person gets in the ring to shine in an 8 man match you are going to get a fast-paced choreographed spotfest, that's really the only way to book it and it's what the audience expects. The match had it's storytelling moments between The Elite and Hangman, Cassidy also got his spot in to continue to get his gimmick over. If Corbin had been watching NXT he would have a seen a couple of spotty tag matches on there too - this is the norm for tag team wrestling now.


Then don’t do those sorts of matches? This is like suggesting “Yep, that’s what happens when you smear salmon on yourself and walk through the woods—bears attack you. Shame. Unavoidable.” Don’t smear salmon on yourself!


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Then don’t do those sorts of matches? This is like suggesting “Yep, that’s what happens when you smear salmon on yourself and walk through the woods—bears attack you. Shame. Unavoidable.” Don’t smear salmon on yourself!


Didn't you know that smearing salmon on yourself is just the "evolution" of hiking? Get with the times old man.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Soul Rex said:


> He isn't wrong tho, but that's a major problem with modern pro wrestling, not just AEW.
> 
> But ain't wrong, he ain't fucking wrong.


Keep in mind this man is likely going to have to eat dogfood on national TV at the end of this Roman fued.

Everything about pro wrestling is embarrassing.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

He's right but same can be said for NXT like others have said.

Plus this guy just sucks ass all around. I wonder if he will feel the same when WWE gets tired of him and kicks him to the curb. Then he'll be begging for an AEW job lmao


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Preaching to the choir here, but this is purely for establishing feuds. How meta is WWE to use Twitter as a booking platform? No, I'm being serious here. Bret himself would rate 9/10, plus 97 for the Screwjob.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tonight I was at a local wrestling show and beside me was a bucks night with about 4 blokes who weren't into wrestling, but were enjoying the first few matches which was fun wrestling. Then two wrestlers attempted a five star match with a bunch of flips and unnecessary shit. They were audibly bored and actually went from being super excited and involved to chanting "This is boring" and going to the bar. 

This was the perfect example of why casual fans will struggle to enjoy with AEW. I know they're not looking at the casual fan but they're on national tv, hopefully international tv and those people that care so much about ratings should want them to aim their show at all types of fans. This title should say 'Baron Corbin calls out wrestling's spots and dive spamming'.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't really care what corbin has to say about anything so he's whatever to me.

People really need to get over this "Video Game Wrestling" Shit. That's how wrestling is across the board now. Take it for what it is or leave it alone.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't really care what corbin has to say about anything so he's whatever to me.
> 
> People really need to get over this "Video Game Wrestling" Shit. That's how wrestling is across the board now. Take it for what it is or leave it alone.


How I feel about it.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't really care what corbin has to say about anything so he's whatever to me.
> 
> People really need to get over this "Video Game Wrestling" Shit. That's how wrestling is across the board now. Take it for what it is or leave it alone.


Should we just have accepted and cheered Super Cena? Reigns? Wrestling changed into video games style, it can evolve out of it too.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Should we just have accepted and cheered Super Cena? Reigns? Wrestling changed into video games style, it can evolve out of it too.


Well it ain't anytime soon so constantly bitching about it isn't gonna do anything. And as far as Cena and Reigns well WWE weren't/aren't going to stop that shit and there is other wrestling out there so...


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well it ain't anytime soon so constantly bitching about it isn't gonna do anything. And as far as Cena and Reigns well WWE weren't/aren't going to stop that shit and there is other wrestling out there so...


Nothing will change without ran reaction. It is not like most of the singles action in AEW is video game nonsense. It is just the Bucks' influence over the tag division. So continued feedback can improve the product. If we just sit silently on our hands, that is one way to guarantee nothing will change.


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Why do people think Baron Corbin is trying to work the fans instead of him legitimately not liking videogame wrestling? Dude was trained in FCW/NXT by old school guys like Bill DeMott, Tom Pritchard, Fit Finlay, Dusty Rhodes, Norman Smiley and Robbie Brookside, the guy has Undertaker as his mentor. Everything AEW stands for is antithetical to what he was taught wrestling was supposed to be.


The Bella's were also trained by the people you mention. What's your point?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LongPig666 said:


> The Bella's were also trained by the people you mention. What's your point?


Trained is a strong word to use for Bellas. The student matters as much as the teacher.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Nothing will change without ran reaction. It is not like most of the singles action in AEW is video game nonsense. It is just the Bucks' influence over the tag division. So continued feedback can improve the product. If we just sit silently on our hands, that is one way to guarantee nothing will change.


Well from what I see most fans like it and have no issue with it so it's not changing so Like I said..Stop bitching.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well from what I see most fans like it and have no issue with it so it's not changing so Like I said..Stop bitching.


Most? What's your sample size exactly?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well from what I see most fans like it and have no issue with it so it's not changing so Like I said..Stop bitching.


There is a difference between giving feedback over what one finds are dumb and just bitching about everything. Fans were able to change a few things in WWE but not the product overall. AEW is mostly good and we have already heard about internal changes regarding The Dark Order fiasco so we will keep letting our voices be heard.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> There is a difference between giving feedback over what one finds are dumb and just bitching about everything. Fans were able to change a few things in WWE but not the product overall. AEW is mostly good and we have already heard about internal changes regarding The Dark Order fiasco so we will keep letting our voices be heard.


But has the wrestling style changed? That's what this is about.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> He isn't wrong tho, but that's a major proble*m with modern pro wrestling, not just AEW*.
> 
> But ain't wrong, he ain't fucking wrong.


So AEW have a chance to buck the trend and go back to what was demonstrably popular. Instead every match has some micro-midget facing off against a regular midget.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

roadkill_ said:


> So AEW have a chance to buck the trend and go back to what was demonstrably popular. Instead every match has some micro-midget facing off against a regular midget.


I wish they made the correct thing and get ride of all that indy shit, but sadly they won't, they will be keeping the trend.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

LongPig666 said:


> The Bella's were also trained by the people you mention. What's your point?


Do the Bellas like videogame wrestling?

My point was that Corbin was trained in the classic style of wrestling so it's probable he sees videogame wrestling as not "real wrestling".


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But has the wrestling style changed? That's what this is about.


Changed for some. There are more flips and dives overall and I do not have a big problem with that specifically. It is the lack of selling, psychology, and spamming of moves that get me. You do not see those things as much in the singles division in AEW.


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Changed for some. There are more flips and dives overall and I do not have a big problem with that specifically. It is the lack of selling, psychology, and spamming of moves that get me. You do not see those things as much in the singles division in AEW.


So basically no.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> Keep in mind this man is likely going to have to eat dogfood on national TV at the end of this Roman fued.
> 
> Everything about pro wrestling is embarrassing.


Vince McMahon has a fetish and unfortunately it has spread into every facet of pro-wrestling. Cody is about to sub himself for MJF's amusement. The Dark Order are incel gimps and all these cults are based around servitude. That's got nothing to do with in-ring, other than babyfaces willingly letting them get their asses kicked and humiliated, because they think that's the way it goes, but it all adds up. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't really care what corbin has to say about anything so he's whatever to me.
> 
> People really need to get over this "Video Game Wrestling" Shit. That's how wrestling is across the board now. Take it for what it is or leave it alone.


What kind of logic is this? "Love it or...love it?" Nah, you don't have to like something just because it's there. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well it ain't anytime soon so constantly bitching about it isn't gonna do anything. And as far as Cena and Reigns well WWE weren't/aren't going to stop that shit and there is other wrestling out there so...


Yeah, it will. It's already run The Bucks off Twitter. Not buying their product and giving them the feedback that it's for reason (x) will, hopefully, eventually sink in. 

And the pushes of Cena and Reigns is why there is demand for Anything Else Wrestling in the first place. And you just got done saying that it's the style now, so if wherever you go, there you are, is it really "other wrestling?" 



LongPig666 said:


> The Bella's were also trained by the people you mention. What's your point?


And I'm sure they try, bless their little socks. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well from what I see most fans like it and have no issue with it so it's not changing so Like I said..Stop bitching.


Most fans don't watch anymore.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

A limited moveset (or a 5 moves of doom formula) gives repetition, heightening anticipation for the finish.

Bret Hart had 5 moves of doom, and he’s the in-ring GOAT.

With that in mind, a difference with today’s spotfest wrestling with 1000 moves performed by every wrestler, is someone like Bret was extremely believable, so you suspended your disbelief as much as humanly possible for this artform. 

Second, until the 5 moves of doom at the end, Bret had incredible, realistic selling that made people care about him. 


believable work (to suck you in)
believable selling (to make you care)

Bret’s two greatest qualities are arguably non-existent in AEW.

People say wrestling has evolved, but evolution isn’t necessarily always beneficial. 

Sometimes species evolve mutant strains that render them less fit for survival.

I enjoy AEW’s characters and stories, and I’ll watch most episodes this year, but most of their in-ring is a form of evolution that is clearly less fit for survival than the previous style of wrestling IMO. 

Believability (to suck you in) is the defining difference between pro wrestling and those Shaolin Monk martial arts performance shows they try to sell to tourists or whatever.


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## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

I agree with him. Young Bucks, Lucha Bros etc is just 1000 mile an hour car crash with limited selling. 

The problem with that? It doesnt look like a wrestling match. They are not even attempting to make it look like they are hurting each other. They are wrestling in cotton wool. 

That gets boring to me. Give me a Stone Cold and Triple H brawl anyday. He has targeted the knee, that must hurt, look he is limping, comeback foiled cos of said knee injury etc much more invested in the match. 

Hardyz, Dudleyz, Edge and Christian were the pioneers of the TLC match. 

Car wreck matches. How ridiculous are they? All that jumping around and chair shots, people flying through tables. Hardly a fight you could say. But look at the selling. Say what you like about Jeff Hardy but he was an elite seller. He looks like he has gone through a war and is actually in a wresling match - opposed to just doing random shit with no ryhme or reason. 

Yeah I get thats 20 years ago. I just dont like the way wrestling has evolved to not even resemble a fight.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

What's the point of it? If the point isn't to sell people on conflict, what is the point of having winners, losers, matches and championships?


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## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Wrestling has become so meta that it's degraded into a live-action Super Smash Bros. battle with Comicon and anime nerds being their chief audience. The casuals only watch wrestling if there's drama involved.

And tits.


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## ireekofawesumnes (Mar 4, 2017)

although one could say hes a hypocrite bc this also describes modern day WWE, albeit to a less extent than AEW...either way hes 100% right


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## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

I mean, Corbin has been getting pointers/advice from guys like Undertaker and Triple H who are proven greats in pro wrestling. I think that puts him much further ahead than the indy playground rugrats in AEW.


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