# Davey Richards Highspots Shoot Preview: Thinks Jim Cornette is "Out Dated"



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Why would anyone pay money just to hear a wrestler say what everyone else has known about for the past year?


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## Until May (Feb 5, 2011)

PulseGlazer said:


> Why would anyone pay money just to hear a wrestler say what everyone else has known about for the past year?


uhm cus davey richards is the fucking man?


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

furthermore why would anyone pay money to see an idiot talk who posted on twitter wrestling was "#grown men pretending"?


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## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Until May said:


> uhm cus davey richards is the fucking man?


I didn't realize that I took a time-travel machine to 2009.


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

This is what I wrote in the indy DVD thread:



> I agree that Cornette's views are outdated. I think Cornette has a lot of ideas that can help the product, but the way he implements them comes off him being stuck in the 80s.


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## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

I hate Cornette the tv character but I never get the "out dated" booking arguments. Especially since no one actually come up with examples.

If Cornette is out dated, what's in? Fake MMA? I don't know

Let's look at WWE top angles: Before the CM Punk heel turn, the top angles this year has been a love angle, Johnny Ace as GM, Cena vs. Rock, return of Brock. 

Let's look at TNA: Mask attackers, love/pregnancy angle, Roode vs.Storm, Austin Aries given up his X title to win the World title, Brooke Hogan as Women's GM, a wrestler acting as his lawyer brother vs. Bully Ray

Out of all this, I guess evil gm's, love angles, famous people, long title reigns is what 2012 wrestling is all about. ROH has the long title reigns. They have somewhat of a GM albeit a bad one. No love angles or famous people.


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## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

Nothing new in that clip besides him not wanting to work Ladder War II (which shouldn't have happened) but it also kind of seems like he's trying to put everything that sucked during his reign on someone else to make himself look better. Doesn't help ROH that guys came out and said they hated the MMA-lite style perception that ROH had and then the guy that led it also hates the direction they're going in.


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## MF83 (Jan 21, 2012)

Davey Richards is just the worst. Why hasn't he retired yet?


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Davey used to be good, I think after Best In The World 2011, he fully became the MMA wannabe.


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## Manu_Styles (Apr 13, 2011)

He is just trying to turn face with the IWC IMO


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## Neathe (Oct 10, 2011)

Manu_Styles said:


> He is just trying to turn face with the IWC IMO


Lol, still isn't working. You guys give him way too much shit. He's a work horse and has done a lot for ROH. This shoot looks interesting and sounds like he has a lot to get off of his chest.


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## flag sabbath (Jun 28, 2011)

USAUSA1 said:


> I hate Cornette the tv character but I never get the "out dated" booking arguments. Especially since no one actually come up with examples.


Folks have written plenty on here about Cornette attempting to book an old-school heel / face dynamic that the ROH fanbase doesn't respond to or outright rejects.


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## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Not sure why Davey would be talking negatively about ROH when he's still working for them.*


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## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Like I said in the other thread, as a huge Davey fan I'm" looking forward to this shoot. From what I read he's talking about a whole lot more than what's in the preview and it'll be cool to get his insight on a lot of stuff that took place over the span of his career. Just because he sharing a sizable audience's opinion doesn't mean he's trying to "get over" with anyone; its simply his own opinion as well.


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Seabs said:


> *Not sure why Davey would be talking negatively about ROH when he's still working for them.*


Isn't his contract running out soon?


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## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

Cornette may not have his hand on the pulse of the present but is on the far future since his present and near future are currently secure


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Neathe said:


> Lol, still isn't working. You guys give him way too much shit. He's a work horse and has done a lot for ROH. This shoot looks interesting and sounds like he has a lot to get off of his chest.


This, IWC hating on Davey Richards yet marking out to guys like Heath Slater.


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## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone come up with a decent suggestion, as far as who Cornette should actually be replaced with.


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## Adam502 (Oct 21, 2011)

Why hasn't Jim Cornette retired? Cornette is the most bitter person i've ever listened too..


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## Kling Klang (Oct 6, 2011)

looks interesting


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## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Combat Analyst said:


> This, IWC hating on Davey Richards yet marking out to guys like Heath Slater.


Well, in reality Slater is a much better Bumper and seller, so yeah........


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## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Lance Storm said that he thinks people are just blaming Cornette for their own faults.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't see how Cornette is out-dated tbh. He promotes a wrestling promotion that features a style of bootleg MMA matches. Not to mention the constant no selling and terrible, terrible psychology (or lack thereof) applied to these matches.

When I think 80s wrestling I thinka simple style of wrestling that involved very rough holds, transitions, selling and working of body parts. Not whatever the fuck it is they do in ROH. I think they do shit like falling through tables and getting back right up after like nothing hapened to then send the same guy who put them through the table, head first into a ladder.

I guess "This is wrestling" in 2012. So yeah, I don't know how anyonew can say Cornette is old school. This style of wrestling isn't old school at all. If you think the style of ROH resenmbles that of 80s wresting then you clearly haven't seen 80s wrestling. Oh yeah, and what the fuck does Davey Richards know about wrestling? Likewise 90% of the ROH roster. Nothing but wanna be MMA guys.

Oh yeah and I'm not defending Cornette either. I've been saying for the longest while now he sucks as a booker and should be the last person to talk about how shitty WWE's booking is or whatever Vince Russo did in the past as, corect me if I'm wrong, he booked the ending of a match to feature a guy STABBING his opponent. And after he won, the guy went on to cut a promo to but over the guy he just STABBED saying how much respect he has for him. 'Hey Davey I respect you a hell of a lot man, but, uh, we cool about the stab right?"



asdf0501 said:


> Well, in reality Slater is a much better Bumper and seller, so yeah........



Let's be honest. John Cena's a better seller than Davey Richards....and the majority of the ROH roster.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

asdf0501 said:


> Well, in reality Slater is a much better Bumper and seller, so yeah........


Yes but Richards has had his fiar share of 5 star matches. Slater just now got his 15 minutes of fame.

And who's the guy in your pic?


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## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Combat Analyst said:


> *Yes but Richards has had his fiar share of 5 star matches*. Slater just now got his 15 minutes of fame.


if you think "workrate","intensity" and no structure makes 5 stars matches then yes.


and the guy is Dick Togo


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Combat Analyst said:


> Yes but Richards has had his fiar share of 5 star matches. Slater just now got his 15 minutes of fame.
> 
> And who's the guy in your pic?


Richards hasn't even had a fucking 3 star match in my book. What's this big 5 star match? Richards vs Elgin? I'm not sure if to call that a match or a demonstration of how much holds each guy knows. Richards matches have no structue whatsoever. 99% of the matches in ROH have no structure and the ones that do just dwindle in the final moments. Steen vs Edwards from a few weeks back is a perfect example of this. Match was telling a great story. Edwrads is smaller than Steen, thus Steen kicks Edwards ass. But fuck that. That's boring. Let's slam Edwards through a table. The match should have ended right there. Perfect ending for that match. I would have given it about 4 stars. Then I dropped it to 'I don't give a fuck" because from there let the no selling begin.

It's fans like you who keep ruining wrestling. Why do you guys insist on supporting this bullshit of a style of wrestling. It fucking sucks, makes no sense, is very messy, muddy and all over the place. Yet you guys are the same fans that turn round to say "Cena can't wrestle". You are the same fans that turn round to say Ric Flair and Barry Windham are Gods. You guys won't even last the first 5 minutes of a 60 minute Ric Flair matchc cause you'll be bored to death because this style of wrestling has brainwashed you all.

Look, if this style of wrestling has a huge fanbase then I don't want to hear the words come out of any of the people in the fanbase, "NWA was awesome" because it just does't make sense. Unless you're a fan of both this messyb style and the tradiitonal style. But really if you think traditional wrestling sucks you have no business saying anything about guys like Flair, Piper, Windham, Lawler or anybody damn else. Cause quite frankly Cena is a better wrestler than Richards anyday. Sure Cena doesn't know how to do a superdragonfuckingtwisterballs but that 1/10 time when he isn't playing Super-Cena he and his opponent deliver one hell of a match. See Cena/Edge, Cena/HHH, Cena/Punk.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Richards hasn't even had a fucking 3 star match in my book. What's this big 5 star match? Richards vs Elgin? I'm not sure if to call that a match or a demonstration of how much holds each guy knows. Richards matches have no structue whatsoever. 99% of the matches in ROH have no structure and the ones that do just dwindle in the final moments. Steen vs Edwards from a few weeks back is a perfect example of this. Match was telling a great story. Edwrads is smaller than Steen, thus Steen kicks Edwards ass. But fuck that. That's boring. Let's slam Edwards through a table. The match should have ended right there. Perfect ending for that match. I would have given it about 4 stars. Then I dropped it to 'I don't give a fuck" because from there let the no selling begin.
> 
> It's fans like you who keep ruining wrestling. Why do you guys insist on supporting this bullshit of a style of wrestling. It fucking sucks, makes no sense, is very messy, muddy and all over the place. Yet you guys are the same fans that turn round to say "Cena can't wrestle". You are the same fans that turn round to say Ric Flair and Barry Windham are Gods. You guys won't even last the first 5 minutes of a 60 minute Ric Flair matchc cause you'll be bored to death because this style of wrestling has brainwashed you all.
> 
> Look, if this style of wrestling has a huge fanbase then I don't want to hear the words come out of any of the people in the fanbase, "NWA was awesome" because it just does't make sense. Unless you're a fan of both this messyb style and the tradiitonal style. But really if you think traditional wrestling sucks you have no business saying anything about guys like Flair, Piper, Windham, Lawler or anybody damn else. Cause quite frankly Cena is a better wrestler than Richards anyday. Sure Cena doesn't know how to do a superdragonfuckingtwisterballs but that 1/10 time when he isn't playing Super-Cena he and his opponent deliver one hell of a match. See Cena/Edge, Cena/HHH, Cena/Punk.


Richards vs. Edwards was a 5 star match, IMO. But by your logic I guess that means Daniel Bryan is a bad wrestler.


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## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

I think people refer to 80s booking with Cornette in that his TV is booked with lots of short quick matches to build to iPPV and House Shows.


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## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

Adam502 said:


> Why hasn't Jim Cornette retired? Cornette is the most bitter person i've ever listened too..


he loves this business, claims he has made enough to retire and doesnt make a cent off of roh, bitter=lies then?


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## RoosterSmith (Nov 20, 2011)

I don't think the booking is outdated. I just think there isn't enough of it. 

Think cornette is outdated as far as how he puts on his shows. It feels lik wrestling from the 80's. I never get the feeling that "ROH Wrestling" (the TV show ) is the place to be. Someone on twitter told me that he just watches the PPV's. And I can see why, nothing really happens on the TV show. 

I get the feeling that they're just passing time until the few weeks before the PPV.


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## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

Davey is probably the worst american strong style worker today. He can have really good matches (06-09 and some from years later) but other than that hes the most overrated wrestler today. His shoot seems interesting.


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> Richards vs. Edwards was a 5 star match, IMO. But by your logic *I guess that means Daniel Bryan is a bad wrestler.*


Uh, no. Sharkboy22's logic _doesn't_ say that Daniel Bryan is a bad wrestler at all, since Daniel Bryan is able to wrestle the "traditional" style Sharkboy22's such a fan of.

Also, Richards vs. Edwards was an overrated MMA simulation. They did some interesting moves, but nothing more. Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards should be tagging, Davey said it himself. I'd rather watch the American Wolves as ROH Tag Team Champions then _either_ of them as World Champions.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Uh, no. Sharkboy22's logic _doesn't_ say that Daniel Bryan is a bad wrestler at all, since Daniel Bryan is able to wrestle the "traditional" style Sharkboy22's such a fan of.
> 
> Also, Richards vs. Edwards was an overrated MMA simulation. They did some interesting moves, but nothing more. Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards should be tagging, Davey said it himself. I'd rather watch the American Wolves as ROH Tag Team Champions then _either_ of them as World Champions.


And Daniel Bryan also wrestles a good amount of the ROH style you guys complain about, ROH born and bred. If you think Richards is an MMA wannabe, Bryan must be too because he actually used Jiu-Jitsu & mixed martial arts trainers like Neil Malensen to influence him on his style.



Lane said:


> Davey is probably the worst american strong style worker today. He can have really good matches (06-09 and some from years later) but other than that hes the most overrated wrestler today. His shoot seems interesting.


How is he overrated when the majority of the IWC hate him??


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## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

I'm interested in that Steen incident.


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## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Combat Analyst said:


> And Daniel Bryan also wrestles a good amount of the* ROH style you guys complain about, ROH born and bred*. If you think Richards is an MMA wannabe, Bryan must be too because he actually used Jiu-Jitsu & mixed martial arts trainers like Neil Malensen to influence him on his style.


That has nothing to do with the fact of no being able to structure a simple match.

Bryan is great because he knows how to build to something, sells and make his oponents look great in the process. Him, Joe, Punk, Aries and others like Bourne wrestle an Indy style (bunch of highspots) but make that highspots mean something and knows how to make them look like diferent things (desperation spots, strategy, limbowrk or wathever) with great facial expressions or conecting them in a way that looks like a structure.

In the case of Bryan and Punk this is more notable because them are being capable of evolve and integrate that sort of things in a more mainstream style and not do highspots or overkill nearfalls for the sake or doing it.

Davey is a glorified spotmonkey, that do all the things that are bad in the indy wrestling scene (overkill secuenceses, excesive nearfalls, terrible fighting spirit, and "american strong style" bullshit), doesn't know how to express nothing more than INTENSITY~ and realy believe tha he can wrestle a sort of MMA thing when all the thing he does is MOVES~ and NEARFALLS~

Tell me how in the hell i'm know when Davey is desperate, afraid or whatever in a match if he only do his "IM GOING TO KILL YOU" face... 

telling that Bryan and Davey are similar wrestlers is just look at moves or background of them


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> And Daniel Bryan also wrestles a good amount of the ROH style you guys complain about, ROH born and bred. If you think Richards is an MMA wannabe, Bryan must be too because he actually used Jiu-Jitsu & mixed martial arts trainers like Neil Malensen to influence him on his style.


He got MMA and Jiu-Jitsu training to enhance his grappling, and it paid off big time. He doesn't drag guys around the ring, kicking them for a cheap pop. He doesn't do stupid sequences of slaps and kicks like Davey and O'Reilly do. He doesn't no-sell match-ending strikes, and hit you with one of his own. He _wrestles_. His matches focus on technical chain-wrestling/grappling, storytelling and, well... _moves_. Yeah, he throws kicks, but most wrestlers use strikes. He doesn't kick any more than Flair used to chop, or Austin used to punch. Davey throws an excessive number of kicks and slaps, and the only time he does _moves_, it's a big and innovative spot. They're nothing alike, and Richards is an idiot for calling himself "the best in the world" so long as Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and Austin Aries are alive and kicking.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't waste time arguing with ROH fans.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> He got MMA and Jiu-Jitsu training to enhance his grappling, and it paid off big time. He doesn't drag guys around the ring, kicking them for a cheap pop. He doesn't do stupid sequences of slaps and kicks like Davey and O'Reilly do. He doesn't no-sell match-ending strikes, and hit you with one of his own. He _wrestles_. His matches focus on technical chain-wrestling/grappling, storytelling and, well... _moves_. Yeah, he throws kicks, but most wrestlers use strikes. He doesn't kick any more than Flair used to chop, or Austin used to punch. Davey throws an excessive number of kicks and slaps, and the only time he does _moves_, it's a big and innovative spot. They're nothing alike, and Richards is an idiot for calling himself "the best in the world" so long as Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and Austin Aries are alive and kicking.





asdf0501 said:


> That has nothing to do with the fact of no being able to structure a simple match.
> 
> Bryan is great because he knows how to build to something, sells and make his oponents look great in the process. Him, Joe, Punk, Aries and others like Bourne wrestle an Indy style (bunch of highspots) but make that highspots mean something and knows how to make them look like diferent things (desperation spots, strategy, limbowrk or wathever) with great facial expressions or conecting them in a way that looks like a structure.
> 
> ...


Okay you guys are making sense now because they way I read it you basically said 99% of ROH wrestlers are MMA wannabes so that makes them bad wrestlers. Not saying there not MMA wannabes, (and that's a bad thing) but I got confused by that since Bryan could fall in that same category


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't waste time arguing with ROH fans.


Honestly if you were to say how many times I watch ROH in a year, 10 is probably the maximum number, I like the product, and it has some good talent down ther ebut I wouldn't consider myself a fan.


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> Okay you guys are making sense now because they way I read it you basically said 99% of ROH wrestlers are MMA wannabes so that makes them bad wrestlers. Not saying there not MMA wannabes, (and that's a bad thing) but I got confused by that since Bryan could fall in that same category


Nah, Bryan is a different breed. He's of the same ROH class as CM Punk, Austin Aries, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Homicide and others who are excellent _wrestlers_, not MMA wannabes. I'm not a fan of Davey Richards' style, but I knew that he is capable of solid technical wrestling, so I didn't passively dislike him. But then I saw someone's signature on this site (can't remember who it was) who had Davey tweeting his true opinion on wrestling. #GrownMenPretending :no:


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Combat Analyst said:


> Honestly if you were to say how many times I watch ROH in a year, 10 is probably the maximum number, I like the product, and it has some good talent down ther ebut I wouldn't consider myself a fan.


Well in that case I don't waste time arguing with fans of hard hitting, no selling, lack of psychology wrestling.


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## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Man people shitting on Davey would've despised the Battlarts style back in the day. Acting as if MMA and pro wrestling elements can't coexist that's absolutely ridiculous. What is this "ROH style" anyways because to my knowledge Davey has been wrestling the same fucking way since 2008 and no one bitched about it back then.

Davey got put over by everyone and their brother for a reason, because he is legit. I don't think guys like Danielson and Daniels would've spoken so highly of Davey if they didn't think he was talented. Richards wins the World strap and all of a sudden Davey becomes the anti-christ of pro wrestling even more so Black did I don't buy it.

No one bitched about Kyle O'Reilly working that style (since 2005) but oh now since he's friends with Davey lets hate everything he does by association, MMA SUXS! Ridiculous. I'm" tired of this notion that if someone doesn't fit your mold of wrestler, then he is the bad guy.


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## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

What does Jim do that is out dated?

I do agree with the Matt Hardy Mark (my new nick name for you Matt Yoda ), Davey has been doing the same thing he's always doing, and tbh he wrestles a pretty typical ROH style. I don't really get the MMA slander. MMA and Pro Wrestling have been intertwined for decades, even before organized MMA existed.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Man people shitting on Davey would've despised the Battlarts style back in the day. Acting as if MMA and pro wrestling elements can't coexist that's absolutely ridiculous. What is this "ROH style" anyways because to my knowledge Davey has been wrestling the same fucking way since 2008 and no one bitched about it back then.
> 
> Davey got put over by everyone and their brother for a reason, because he is legit. I don't think guys like Danielson and Daniels would've spoken so highly of Davey if they didn't think he was talented. Richards wins the World strap and all of a sudden Davey becomes the anti-christ of pro wrestling even more so Black did I don't buy it.
> 
> No one bitched about Kyle O'Reilly working that style (since 2005) but oh now since he's friends with Davey lets hate everything he does by association, MMA SUXS! Ridiculous. I'm" tired of this notion that if someone doesn't fit your mold of wrestler, then he is the bad guy.


This, I get the critcism Davey gets but 2 years ago, people were legit claiming this guy was the best wrestler in the world. And that's true guys like Danielson & Daniels have said Davey is a good wrestler.



sharkboy22 said:


> Well in that case I don't waste time arguing with fans of hard hitting, no selling, lack of psychology wrestling.


Un that case I won't waste time arguing with a Shark Boy fan.



WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Nah, Bryan is a different breed. He's of the same ROH class as CM Punk, Austin Aries, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Homicide and others who are excellent _wrestlers_, not MMA wannabes. I'm not a fan of Davey Richards' style, but I knew that he is capable of solid technical wrestling, so I didn't passively dislike him. But then I saw someone's signature on this site (can't remember who it was) who had Davey tweeting his true opinion on wrestling. #GrownMenPretending :no:


Well if he thinks pro wrestling is just grown man pretending why is he doing it than?


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## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

So Jim booking bad guys vs. good guys is consider out dated? No wonder why the business hasn't recover yet.


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## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Man people shitting on Davey would've despised the Battlarts style back in the day. Acting as if MMA and pro wrestling elements can't coexist that's absolutely ridiculous. What is this "ROH style" anyways because to my knowledge Davey has been wrestling the same fucking way since 2008 and no one bitched about it back then.
> 
> Davey got put over by everyone and their brother for a reason, because he is legit. I don't think guys like Danielson and Daniels would've spoken so highly of Davey if they didn't think he was talented. Richards wins the World strap and all of a sudden Davey becomes the anti-christ of pro wrestling even more so Black did I don't buy it.
> 
> No one bitched about Kyle O'Reilly working that style (since 2005) but oh now since he's friends with Davey lets hate everything he does by association, MMA SUXS! Ridiculous. I'm" tired of this notion that if someone doesn't fit your mold of wrestler, then he is the bad guy.



mmmmm no.

In first place, the hate has nothing to do with working a MMA wannabe style or wahtever you wanna call it.

The wrestlers of Battlarts or the shoot style in general know what they are doing when they build a secuence or works the mat, you see realy slik secuences of people hard working and punching each other real hard, people that have at strategy in the mat and make moves accord to that. Look at Volk Han or Ishikawa

In Shoot Style you will not see people throwing bombs at each other for the pleasure of throwing it and a bunch of nearfalls. In fact in shoot Style you at max will see only strikes and sumissions (and i mean powerful, hard strikes).

Ah and Davey doesn't suck beacuse he represents a ROH Style or something, i don't even know what the hell is that. Davey suck beacuse he just go at there and do moves. It's like he has spend nigths seing Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit wrestling each other and thinks "thats cool, i wanna do that and that" without knowing why they do each move. And this was in 2005, 2008 and 2012

He can be all the legit he want, that doesn't make it better, and if he is so legit then he can go to UFC to being kick in the ass.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

USAUSA1 said:


> So Jim booking bad guys vs. good guys is consider out dated? No wonder why the business hasn't recover yet.


Remember ROH fans are extremely smart because, well don't tell anyone you heard it from me, but apparently they know something WWE fans don't know. Wrestling's fake. Yeah, I know I too was shocked when I first heard it.

So to ROH fans (since they're so educated about the wrestling business) booking food vs evil is outdated because they're not retards. They know it's not real so they are not going to waste their time trying to get invested in good vs evil.

Needless to say they will still boo the guy who doesn't respect the Code of Honor.


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> Un that case I won't waste time arguing with a Shark Boy fan.
> 
> Well if he thinks pro wrestling is just grown man pretending why is he doing it than?


Come on, why the hate for Shark Boy? :cole1 He was great in the X Division.

But yeah... I don't know why he does it. Maybe he's just an asshole.


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> food vs evil


Seriously... best... angle... ever...

And no I wasn't joking. I enjoyed Shark Boy's matches. PPV quality they were not, but they were solid.


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## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Come on, why the hate for Shark Boy? :cole1 He was great in the X Division.
> 
> But yeah... I don't know why he does it. Maybe he's just an asshole.


im not sure if the cole face means that was a joke, but shark boy is a terrible wrestler in my opinion.


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## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Man people shitting on Davey would've despised the Battlarts style back in the day. Acting as if MMA and pro wrestling elements can't coexist that's absolutely ridiculous. What is this "ROH style" anyways because to my knowledge Davey has been wrestling the same fucking way since 2008 and no one bitched about it back then.
> 
> Davey got put over by everyone and their brother for a reason, because he is legit. I don't think guys like Danielson and Daniels would've spoken so highly of Davey if they didn't think he was talented. Richards wins the World strap and all of a sudden Davey becomes the anti-christ of pro wrestling even more so Black did I don't buy it.
> 
> No one bitched about Kyle O'Reilly working that style (since 2005) but oh now since he's friends with Davey lets hate everything he does by association, MMA SUXS! Ridiculous. I'm" tired of this notion that if someone doesn't fit your mold of wrestler, then he is the bad guy.



This.


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## Until May (Feb 5, 2011)

asdf0501 said:


> Well, in reality Slater is a much better Bumper and seller, so yeah........


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Until May said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke


Davey can't sell _or_ bump for shit. Someone that's under 6 foot should _not_ be no-selling the likes of Michael Elgin. He's a great wrestler, but can't have great matches because they have zero structure, zero sense and zero storytelling. And a large part of that is down to his matches being strike fests, where many of the actual moves that he takes, he just ignores like he's some kind of monster heel.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Man people shitting on Davey would've despised the Battlarts style back in the day.


No.


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## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Though if Meltzer says that Elgin vs. Richards was 5 stars I'll take his opinion over any of the IWC considering he's actually I don't know had a newsletter.


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## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> Though if Meltzer says that Elgin vs. Richards was 5 stars I'll take his opinion over any of the IWC considering he's actually I don't know had a newsletter.


There were a lot of people that disagreed with Meltzer, including fans of PWI. I'm not an IWC fan myself, and I thought that at best, Elgin vs. Richards was a ****1/4 match among a two-day card of terrible matches.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> There were a lot of people that disagreed with Meltzer, including fans of PWI. I'm not an IWC fan myself, and I thought that at best, Elgin vs. Richards was a ****1/4 match among a two-day card of terrible matches.


So if you thought it was 4 stars why do you think Richards is a bad wrestler than?


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> So if you thought it was 4 stars why do you think Richards is a bad wrestler than?


John Cena put on a 5-Star match, that doesn't make him a good wrestler.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> John Cena put on a 5-Star match, that doesn't make him a good wrestler.


Cena when he's not in his Supercena modes can be a good wrestler.


----------



## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

Until May said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke




















v/s


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> Cena when he's not in his Supercena modes can be a good wrestler.


And Davey when he's not in his Superdavey mode where Michael Elgin can hit him with a Lariat that he doesn't feel can be a good wrestler. Unfortunately, like Cena, he leaves this mode about once a year.

I swear, Davey would make the perfect Pokémon. 

"Michael Elgin uses Lariat!"
"It doesn't affect Davey Richards!"
"Davey Richards uses Generic Kick #521!"
"It's Super Effective!"


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> And Davey when he's not in his Superdavey mode where Michael Elgin can hit him with a Lariat that he doesn't feel can be a good wrestler. Unfortunately, like Cena, he leaves this mode about once a year.
> 
> I swear, Davey would make the perfect Pokémon.
> 
> ...


I think Davey is probably a good wrestler, but his like for MMA makes him think that no-selling, and not storytelling makes him look more cool.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Combat Analyst said:


> I think Davey is probably a good wrestler, but his like for MMA makes him think that no-selling, and not storytelling makes him look more cool.


So now "looking cool" (which he fails at anyway) is a justifiable substitute for putting on consistently good wrestling matches?


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> So now "looking cool" (which he fails at anyway) is a justifiable substitute for putting on consistently good wrestling matches?


You can tell by his tweet about grown man pretending that he's trying hard to make himself look legit.


----------



## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> John Cena put on a 5-Star match, that doesn't make him a good wrestler.


Implying John Cena isn't a good wrestler?


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

That gif of the top rope suplex into the over the top rope suplex is just fucking retarded. Whats the point? It goes to fast and doesnt keep the interest of the top rope into a roll through by immediatly going into ANOTHER suplex but this time over the top rope. Way to no sell the shit of a top rope suplex and making it weak by the way.


----------



## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

Davey is a good wrestler. And even if you think he is terrible, you pretty much think the whole business sucks because not too many people has had a better year work rate wise. 

The problem with Richards is not his wrestling, it's his character. He doesn't really have one.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

Violent By Design said:


> Implying John Cena isn't a good wrestler?


Yes. He's not good, though that's not the same as saying he's "bad". 



Lane said:


> That gif of the top rope suplex into the over the top rope suplex is just fucking retarded. Whats the point? It goes to fast and doesnt keep the interest of the top rope into a roll through by immediatly going into ANOTHER suplex but this time over the top rope. Way to no sell the shit of a top rope suplex and making it weak by the way.


Keeping in mind that Barry Windham actually won a couple of matches with the Superplexes, albeit with a float over at the end.


----------



## MF83 (Jan 21, 2012)

Apologists of the modern ROH style are probably stuck in that post-WWE rage against the McMachine stage many a fan goes through early on. That point where the amount of nearfalls and spots included in a match determines how good a match is and nothing else really matters. I envy you all. I'm good living far away from any world that Davey Richards is a better wrestler than John Cena in but that's just me. 


That said,


> Davey is a good wrestler. And even if you think he is terrible, you pretty much think the whole business sucks because not too many people has had a better year work rate wise.
> 
> The problem with Richards is not his wrestling, it's his character. He doesn't really have one.


:lmao fpalm


Mostly unrelated, get in on Cactus' John Cena project: http://www.puroresu.tv/forums/topic...john-cena-2002-2012/page__p__12501#entry12501


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Yes. He's not good, though that's not the same as saying he's "bad".
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping in mind that Barry Windham actually won a couple of matches with the Superplexes, albeit with a float over at the end.


There's a word for not good, and not bad. It's decent. Only problem with Cena is, is that while he has alot of good matches, he also has alot of bad matches. If you get rid of most of the Supercena Era Matches, you got yourself a good wrestler. Not to mention Bret & Flair have complimented Cena's storytelling and in ring psychology.


----------



## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Yes. He's not good, though that's not the same as saying he's "bad".
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping in mind that Barry Windham actually won a couple of matches with the Superplexes, albeit with a float over at the end.


 Really? I think Cena is an excellent wrestler, one of the finest in the world for sure. He's had ton of classic matches, and he's had a lot of good matches even on smaller scales (he has had quite a few good television matches). I'm not sure if I'd be saying anything that hasnt been said yet, but Cena can put on a good match with anyone and he understands how to work in between the ropes. In fact, I like him as a wrestler due to how he actually performs vs the promos he makes, which I think are terrible.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> Really? I think Cena is an excellent wrestler, one of the finest in the world for sure. He's had ton of classic matches, and he's had a lot of good matches even on smaller scales (he has had quite a few good television matches). I'm not sure if I'd be saying anything that hasnt been said yet, but Cena can put on a good match with anyone and he understands how to work in between the ropes. In fact, I like him as a wrestler due to how he actually performs vs the promos he makes, which I think are terrible.


This

Cena isn't a bad wrestler, WWE just book him to be bad. Same as with Hogan in Japan and Hogan in WWF/E.


----------



## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

Violent By Design said:


> Implying John Cena isn't a good wrestler?


Seriously. He's a lot better than Davey Richards.


----------



## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Davey can't sell _or_ bump for shit. Someone that's under 6 foot should _not_ be no-selling the likes of Michael Elgin. He's a great wrestler, but can't have great matches because they have zero structure, zero sense and zero storytelling. And a large part of that is down to his matches being strike fests, where many of the actual moves that he takes, he just ignores like he's some kind of monster heel.


Elgin is gonna be big, i can sense it



WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> There were a lot of people that disagreed with Meltzer, including fans of PWI. I'm not an IWC fan myself, and I thought that at best, Elgin vs. Richards was a ****1/4 match among a two-day card of terrible matches.


he gave 5 star to AJ vs Joe vs Chris, i hindsight its more like a 3 star


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

MF83 said:


> Apologists of the modern ROH style are probably stuck in that post-WWE rage against the McMachine stage many a fan goes through early on. That point where the amount of nearfalls and spots included in a match determines how good a match is and nothing else really matters. I envy you all. I'm good living far away from any world that Davey Richards is a better wrestler than John Cena in but that's just me.


Any attentive viewer will notice that WWE's bell-to-bell product consists of 99% near-falls and over-the-top, pre-rehearsed stunts. 

Their storytelling, as such, is comparable to the storytelling in a Power Rangers episode. 

It never ceases to amaze me that people will suggest that John Cena is a 'deep, emotional storyteller', on a wrestling forum, but would never make the same claims in an adult conversation, with the average man on the street, in the real world.


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

Carcass said:


> Seriously. He's a lot better than Davey Richards.


Quoted for the truth.

What Richards said about ROH & Cornette is completely true, it's just very stupid to say these things in public.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

2002-2005: OMFG BRYAN DANIELSON IS GOD
2006: Danielson is overrated

2007-2008: Tyler Motherfucking Black is the man
2009-2010: Fuck you Tyler

2008-2010: Davey is a beast
2011: Worst wrestler in the world.


ROH Fans rulez.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

asdf0501 said:


> v/s


Lol. Holy fuck. Holy fuck. ROH really does fucking suck. This is the kind of shit I talk about. Thanks for pointing it out you doof. And it's not just Richards and Edwards who are guilty of this sort of shit, it's everyone on the roster.

Look at how Slater sold that fucking lariat. Made it look devastating. Now let me get this right. Richards hits a fucking top rope suplex and just like that Edwards gets the fuck up and suplexes Richards over the rope. Good Lord a top rope suplex deals as much damage as a fucking punch in ROH now it seems.

And the thing is, it's not just ROH that does this sort of shit. I see it in almost every independent promotions and Japan is like the king of no selling. A lot of people like to shit on me cause I watching WWE only and when it comes to my knowledge of Japanese and indy wrestling my brain's the size of a pea. But this is why I don't watch that shit. It insults my intelligence.

Holy fuck. That spot was shit. But the funny part is I bet the entire crowd was slapping dem barricades chanting "This is wrestling" Holy fuck do people seriously find that shit interesting. Good Lord, Davey must have one weak-ass top rope suplex for Edwards to just get up like that and throw him over the rope like nothing happened. Is it mandatory to work such a shitty style of wrestling on the indy scene? Cause it's in every damn promotion.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

nevereveragainu said:


> Elgin is gonna be big, i can sense it


Sure, if ROH actually had the intelligence to build him up effectively. -_- He has the in-ring ability to be a phenomenal monster heel, one that is menacing, could believably no-sell moves, and yet is still a great wrestler. I can actually kind of see WWE scooping him up to fill such a role, since all of their "monsters" suck right now.



nevereveragainu said:


> gave 5 star to AJ vs Joe vs Chris, i hindsight its more like a 3 star


A ***** match it was not, though *** is a bit skimpy. o.o I'd give it ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2. But I agree ***** is way too much, even though it is the best match TNA has ever had.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Lol. Holy fuck. Holy fuck.* ROH really does fucking suck. This is the kind of shit I talk about. Thanks for pointing it out you doof. And it's not just Richards and Edwards who are guilty of this sort of shit, it's everyone on the roster.
> 
> Look at how Slater sold that fucking lariat. Made it look devastating. Now let me get this right. Richards hits a fucking top rope suplex and just like that Edwards gets the fuck up and suplexes Richards over the rope. Good Lord a top rope suplex deals as much damage as a fucking punch in ROH now it seems.
> 
> ...


How interesting. "Holy Fuck" is exactly what they were chanting, though they meant it in a good way. :no: Then came "This Is Awesome", "This Is Wrestling", "ROH"... all the usual undeserving chants.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> A ***** match it was not, though *** is a bit skimpy. o.o I'd give it ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2. But I agree ***** is way too much, even though it is the best match TNA has ever had.


I agree. I've seen the match two times now and still can't get into as much as Melzter (and others) apparently did.



WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> How interesting. "Holy Fuck" is exactly what they were chanting, though they meant it in a good way. :no: Then came "This Is Awesome", "This Is Wrestling", "ROH"... all the usual undeserving chants.


When ROH fans mark out to stuff like that I always say to myself "And they call WWE fans brainless?"


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

:cool2 mfw ROH fans call Jeff Hardy a spot monkey but ride Richards' dick like it was going out of style.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

dele said:


> :cool2 mfw ROH fans call Jeff Hardy a spot monkey but ride Richards' dick like it was going out of style.


ROH fans are stupid. This we already know. They are incapable of forming their opinions. Onee guy jumps up and says "Hardy is a spot monkey" the others follow suit. One goes "Davey Richards- Best in the world" they follow like mindless sheep. ROH fans don't know shit about wrestling. If they did they wouldn't be chanting "This is wrestling" for a spot such as that top rope suplex. Cause they would clearly know that that isn't wrestling. That is fuckery.

I think ROH fans just get a rush out of being all anti-WWE. Like kind of like how I get a rush out of being anti-independent lol. 

ROH fans automatically assume because some knows a lot of holds and there are a lot of transitions at the start of a match, you're automatically a great technical wrestler.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

I've honestly never been a huge fan of ROH. I honestly find all of their stuff (even the Gabe-booked stuff) quite shitty.


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Sure, if ROH actually had the intelligence to build him up effectively. -_- He has the in-ring ability to be a phenomenal monster heel, one that is menacing, could believably no-sell moves, and yet is still a great wrestler. I can actually kind of see WWE scooping him up to fill such a role, since all of their "monsters" suck right now.
> 
> 
> A ***** match it was not, though *** is a bit skimpy. o.o I'd give it ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2. But I agree ***** is way too much, even though it is the best match TNA has ever had.


Not even TNA's best match of 2005.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Sure, if ROH actually had the intelligence to build him up effectively. -_- He has the in-ring ability to be a phenomenal monster heel, one that is menacing, could believably no-sell moves, and yet is still a great wrestler. I can actually kind of see WWE scooping him up to fill such a role, since all of their "monsters" suck right now.
> 
> 
> A ***** match it was not, though *** is a bit skimpy. o.o I'd give it ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2. But I agree ***** is way too much, even though it is the best match TNA has ever had.


Would love to see Michael Elgin vs. Ryback


----------



## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> ROH fans are stupid. This we already know. They are incapable of forming their opinions. Onee guy jumps up and says "Hardy is a spot monkey" the others follow suit. One goes "Davey Richards- Best in the world" they follow like mindless sheep. ROH fans don't know shit about wrestling. If they did they wouldn't be chanting "This is wrestling" for a spot such as that top rope suplex. Cause they would clearly know that that isn't wrestling. That is fuckery.
> 
> I think ROH fans just get a rush out of being all anti-WWE. Like kind of like how I get a rush out of being anti-independent lol.
> 
> ROH fans automatically assume because some knows a lot of holds and there are a lot of transitions at the start of a match, you're automatically a great technical wrestler.


honestly, you could say the same exact thing about WWE fans, lol.


----------



## asdf0501 (May 31, 2009)

In fact, you can say the same thing for fans in general


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

asdf0501 said:


> In fact, you can say the same thing for fans in general


Yeah agreed. WWE fans aren't the best either. You know who the best fans are? Wrestling fans.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

It really just comes down to ROH fans being entertained not by wrestling, but by athleticism, and the retarded form of "drama" that they buy into.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> It really just comes down to ROH fans being entertained not by wrestling, but by athleticism, and the retarded form of "drama" that they buy into.


Well let's get carried away. ROH matches may not have the best storytelling or in ring psychology, but what they do still takes athleticism.


----------



## MF83 (Jan 21, 2012)

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Any attentive viewer will notice that WWE's bell-to-bell product consists of 99% near-falls and over-the-top, pre-rehearsed stunts.
> 
> Their storytelling, as such, is comparable to the storytelling in a Power Rangers episode.
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me that people will suggest that John Cena is a 'deep, emotional storyteller', on a wrestling forum, but would never make the same claims in an adult conversation, with the average man on the street, in the real world.


Lol, no it simply does not. They call matches on the fly outside of the few pre-arranged spots unique to each match. An ROH match is laid out on paper, spot-by-spot-by-spot before the match, memorized, and is effectively recited afterward. 


Pro wrestling storytelling at its best, anywhere ever, is comparable to a Power Rangers episode.


I'd call John Cena a good wrestler to your face because he is. He is not a 'deep, emotional storyteller' because that's stupid in wrestling context. I would say that John Cena is damn good at calling a match, working smartly and cleanly, working off crowd reaction, selling opponent offense, effectively laying out and executing any given match with one of the lowest "botch rates" of anyone out there, all at a consistently high level in the main event slot, over a period of over five years. That, to me, is a good wrestler.


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Holy fuck. That spot was shit. But the funny part is *I bet the entire crowd was slapping dem barricades chanting "This is wrestling" *Holy fuck do people seriously find that shit interesting. Good Lord, Davey must have one weak-ass top rope suplex for Edwards to just get up like that and throw him over the rope like nothing happened. Is it mandatory to work such a shitty style of wrestling on the indy scene? Cause it's in every damn promotion.





WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> How interesting. "Holy Fuck" is exactly what they were chanting, though they meant it in a good way. :no: Then came "This Is Awesome", "This Is Wrestling", "ROH"... all the usual undeserving chants.


Not 100% sure but I think the crowd was dead for that match and didn't even respond to that spot. 

I've said it before but I really like Davey Richards. No-selling and lack of storytelling/ring psychology don't bother me much..


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

There is seriously 10 pages of this shit.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

The Corre said:


> Not 100% sure but I think the crowd was dead for that match and didn't even respond to that spot.
> 
> I've said it before but I really like Davey Richards. No-selling and lack of storytelling/ring psychology don't bother me much..


Agreed, In terms of matches on the big leagues like WWE or TNA, selling and storytelling matter but because it's ROH which is only meant for a niche market it doesn't matter. All I care about is being entertained and I would say Richards does that. Most of the people in wrestling audiences, all companies probably don't know what storytelling and in ring psychology is. Hell I didn't know what it was until the IWC.


----------



## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

I can confirm the crowd was mostly dead for that dumb Richards/Edwards spot.

Because the match before it completely killed the crowd more than anything to do with that match (which also sucked)


----------



## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

Lane said:


> There is seriously 10 pages of this shit.


Because Davey Richards is the top guy in the indies rather you hate or love him. Nobody else can draw this type of reaction. He is the John Cena of the indies.


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

No one else can draw that type of reaction? El Generico and Sami Callihan say sup.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I can't believe people have bought into the lame excuse that WWE made to defend Cena. If you are a babyface and half the people who know you hate you, then you are a shitty babyface.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

USAUSA1 said:


> Because Davey Richards is the top guy in the indies rather you hate or love him. Nobody else can draw this type of reaction. He is the John Cena of the indies.





Lane said:


> No one else can draw that type of reaction? El Generico and Sami Callihan say sup.


pwned



JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I can't believe people have bought into the lame excuse that WWE made to defend Cena. If you are a babyface and half the people who know you hate you, then you are a shitty babyface.


Cena is a lot better than people give him credit for. A lot.


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

MF83 said:


> Lol, no it simply does not. They call matches on the fly outside of the few pre-arranged spots unique to each match. An ROH match is laid out on paper, spot-by-spot-by-spot before the match, memorized, and is effectively recited afterward.
> 
> 
> Pro wrestling storytelling at its best, anywhere ever, is comparable to a Power Rangers episode.
> ...


Oh wow. We have someone who has no idea of how WWE's creative process works, who thinks that John Cena has a low "botch rate", and that faces call matches?

Why did I even engage you in a discussion? I mean, seriously...you think that this brand of wrestling is even remotely "called on the fly"?


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Lane said:


> No one else can draw that type of reaction? El Generico and Sami Callihan say sup.


Colt Cabana is overhimself, Was getting his name chanted at WWE events. You might say it's because of Punk, but Punk mentioned Chris Masters, & Harry Smith and they weren't getting their names chanted.


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

What the everloving fuck does that have to do with anything?


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Lane said:


> What the everloving fuck does that have to do with anything?


I was just naming another Indie Wrestler, that could be considered the John Cena of the Indies.


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

Ooook? What does that have to do with what i said?


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

This thread made my head hurt. I thought we were done arguing about DAVEYINTESITY~! last year. 

Oh well...



asdf0501 said:


>


That shit still makes me wanna go punch somebody in the face, scream "American Wolves" to no reaction and just leave.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Lane said:


> Ooook? What does that have to do with what i said?


Well you were naming guys who could be considered John Cena of the Indies, so I decided to add another name, but since people don't like it when others contribute information, since it makes their inernet persona look stupid, whatever.


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

You wernt making what you were saying clear, you were just name dropping people what looked like for no aperant reason.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Lane said:


> You wernt making what you were saying clear, you were just name dropping people what looked like for no aperant reason.


No, I was saying how Colt Cabana is over, and why it isn't a fluke.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

MF83 said:


> Lol, no it simply does not. They call matches on the fly outside of the few pre-arranged spots unique to each match. An ROH match is laid out on paper, spot-by-spot-by-spot before the match, memorized, and is effectively recited afterward.


:lmao


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

Dele, that guys post gave me cancer.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

dele said:


> Cena is a lot better than people give him credit for. A lot.


Cena is one of this generation's most underrated wrestlers. I love how people complain "Cena sucks. All he does is take a beating for 20 minutes and then just powers up with his 5 moves" Fair enough, I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than a typical Cena match. 

But at the same time there are the Cena matches that don't go like this and it's a good back and forth competition. Whenever a great match takes place involving Cena it's always somebody carried him. Cena can't do anything good. Whatever happened to, it takes two to have a match? God Cena haters are the most uneducated fans out there. Then again, I bet 99% of all Cena haters are the anti-WWE rebels who support garbage promotions like ROH and garbage wrestlers like Richards, Strong, O'Reiley and the list goes on.

I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd. Oh and ROH fans kill me with the whole "Ring psychology is made up term" thing. Tell fucking Stu Hart ring psycholgy doesn't exist. And you know what's amazing too. If a mach is good in WWE and a ref bump takes place, the anti-WWE rebels are all over it. 2 ref bumps and a gazillion outside interferenes during Steen/Richards- "THIS IS AWESOME"


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Cena is one of this generation's most underrated wrestlers. I love how people complain "Cena sucks. All he does is take a beating for 20 minutes and then just powers up with his 5 moves" Fair enough, I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than a typical Cena match.
> 
> But at the same time there are the Cena matches that don't go like this and it's a good back and forth competition. Whenever a great match takes place involving Cena it's always somebody carried him. Cena can't do anything good. Whatever happened to, it takes two to have a match? God Cena haters are the most uneducated fans out there. Then again, I bet 99% of all Cena haters are the anti-WWE rebels who support garbage promotions like ROH and garbage wrestlers like Richards, Strong, O'Reiley and the list goes on.
> 
> I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd. Oh and ROH fans kill me with the whole "Ring psychology is made up term" thing. Tell fucking Stu Hart ring psycholgy doesn't exist. And you know what's amazing too. If a mach is good in WWE and a ref bump takes place, the anti-WWE rebels are all over it. 2 ref bumps and a gazillion outside interferenes during Steen/Richards- "THIS IS AWESOME"


I think the fact that legends like Flair & Hart have complimented Cena's work should put the haters to the rest.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Combat Analyst said:


> I think the fact that legends like Flair & Hart have complimented Cena's work should put the haters to the rest.


No. You see the whole legends putting over other wreslters is all cool except for when it comes to Cena. When legends put over Cena apaprently they're word is no longer important. It no longer matters. Unless of course the guy the legend is putting over is someone like CM Punk or Dolph Ziggler. But once it's Cena, their word doesn't mean much.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> No. You see the whole legends putting over other wreslters is all cool except for when it comes to Cena. When legends put over Cena apaprently they're word is no longer important. It no longer matters. Unless of course the guy the legend is putting over is someone like CM Punk or Dolph Ziggler. But once it's Cena, their word doesn't mean much.


Double standards when it comes to Cena.

Just watched Cole vs. Strong. They do sell but ROH matchesa re too damn fast paced. Instead of letting the crowd, take in move by move, and _allowing_ the opponent to sell, they go from move to move, to move to move.


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

John Cena and Davey Richards are great comparison.

They both have annoying personality schticks. Cena with his childish retard bullshit, Richards with his intensity retard bullshit. Both are put in a position to perform fellatio after their matches to "send the crowd home happy" as if the announcers couldn't do that with a simple "thank you and see you next time" statement. Both (as well as their companies) are too fucking stubborn to evolve the Cena and Richards characters, instead doing the same old shit.

What they also have in common is they are annoyingly overpushed acts who can't measure up to the standard of those who paved the way for them. For Cena, there is no way he has the overall intangibles of Austin, Rock, Hogan, Savage, etc. For Richards, there is no way he has the overall intangibles of Punk, Joe, Nigel, Aries, Danielson, etc. Both work hard at what they do, but don't work hard enough on their OPPORTUNITIES such as modifying their gimmicks and in-ring work to prevent staleness.

Both men's companies claim that they are the very best at what they do - Cena as the greatest superstar/entertainer ever, only for the Rock to show up and show him how it's done. Richards as the best in-ring wrestler and athlete, only to tune into WWE and see Danielson show him how it's done.

If Cena and Richards would like to be remembered as fondly as their predecessors, perhaps they should cut back on their charities and MMA fetishes and evolve their pro wrestling. They don't have the luxury of the likes of El Generico, Ric Flair, and Steve Austin have, which is to do the same old shit and manage to not go stale.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

PulseGlazer said:


> John Cena and Davey Richards are great comparison.
> 
> They both have annoying personality schticks. Cena with his childish retard bullshit, Richards with his intensity retard bullshit. Both are put in a position to perform fellatio after their matches to "send the crowd home happy" as if the announcers couldn't do that with a simple "thank you and see you next time" statement. Both (as well as their companies) are too fucking stubborn to evolve the Cena and Richards characters, instead doing the same old shit.
> 
> ...


Thing is Cena has already proven while he will go down as one of the GOAT, Richards no.

But you're not saying anything that hasn't been said before.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

Lane said:


> Dele, that guys post gave me cancer.


That guy's post WAS cancer.



sharkboy22 said:


> Cena is one of this generation's most underrated wrestlers. I love how people complain "Cena sucks. All he does is take a beating for 20 minutes and then just powers up with his 5 moves" Fair enough, I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than a typical Cena match.
> 
> But at the same time there are the Cena matches that don't go like this and it's a good back and forth competition. Whenever a great match takes place involving Cena it's always somebody carried him. Cena can't do anything good. Whatever happened to, it takes two to have a match? God Cena haters are the most uneducated fans out there. Then again, I bet 99% of all Cena haters are the anti-WWE rebels who support garbage promotions like ROH and garbage wrestlers like Richards, Strong, O'Reiley and the list goes on.
> 
> I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd. Oh and ROH fans kill me with the whole "Ring psychology is made up term" thing. Tell fucking Stu Hart ring psycholgy doesn't exist. And you know what's amazing too. If a mach is good in WWE and a ref bump takes place, the anti-WWE rebels are all over it. 2 ref bumps and a gazillion outside interferenes during Steen/Richards- "THIS IS AWESOME"


Cena was really rough to watch until around 2008. Even then, his bad far outweighed his good. He's really come into his own, though.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

dele said:


> That guy's post WAS cancer.
> 
> 
> 
> Cena was really rough to watch until around 2008. Even then, his bad far outweighed his good. He's really come into his own, though.


Again it's about booking.


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

I half agree dele, from 2007 on Cena was greatness. Richards has actually regressed since 2009.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

seancarleton77 said:


> I half agree dele, from 2007 on Cena was greatness. Richards has actually regressed since 2009.


You guys are in the minority, Many say 07 to on when SuperCena began, beginning the boring matches.


----------



## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

MF83 said:


> Lol, no it simply does not. They call matches on the fly outside of the few pre-arranged spots unique to each match. An ROH match is laid out on paper, spot-by-spot-by-spot before the match, memorized, and is effectively recited afterward.
> 
> 
> Pro wrestling storytelling at its best, anywhere ever, is comparable to a Power Rangers episode.
> ...


thats a f***ing laugh

if you want to storytelling at its best then i highly recommend a recent Alex "Showstealer" Shane match



antoniomare007 said:


> That shit still makes me wanna go punch somebody in the face, scream "American Wolves" to no reaction and just leave.


thats funny, for some reason



dele said:


> I've honestly never been a huge fan of ROH. I honestly find all of their stuff (even the Gabe-booked stuff) quite shitty.


care to briefly elaborate?



WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> A ***** match it was not, though *** is a bit skimpy. o.o I'd give it ****1/4, maybe even ****1/2. But I agree ***** is way too much, even though it is the best match TNA has ever had.


AJs no selling ruined it a bit



sharkboy22 said:


> Cena is one of this generation's most underrated wrestlers. I love how people complain "Cena sucks. All he does is take a beating for 20 minutes and then just powers up with his 5 moves" Fair enough, I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than a typical Cena match.
> 
> But at the same time there are the Cena matches that don't go like this and it's a good back and forth competition. Whenever a great match takes place involving Cena it's always somebody carried him. Cena can't do anything good. Whatever happened to, it takes two to have a match? God Cena haters are the most uneducated fans out there. Then again, I bet 99% of all Cena haters are the anti-WWE rebels who support garbage promotions like ROH and garbage wrestlers like Richards, Strong, O'Reiley and the list goes on.
> 
> I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd. Oh and ROH fans kill me with the whole "Ring psychology is made up term" thing. Tell fucking Stu Hart ring psycholgy doesn't exist. And you know what's amazing too. If a mach is good in WWE and a ref bump takes place, the anti-WWE rebels are all over it. 2 ref bumps and a gazillion outside interferenes during Steen/Richards- "THIS IS AWESOME"


would you belive me if i told you that Marcus Buff Bagwell was a great ring terchnician but had on of the worst backstage attitudes of all time


Combat Analyst said:


> I think the fact that legends like Flair & Hart have complimented Cena's work should put the haters to the rest.


Hart complained about old guys wearing tna belts around the time he had the us title

Flair is an a** kisser, had to sell out hius legacy and got paid the world over the give a pat inthe back to any company who wanted him to appear



Combat Analyst said:


> Double standards when it comes to Cena.
> 
> Just watched Cole vs. Strong. They do sell but ROH matchesa re too damn fast paced. Instead of letting the crowd, take in move by move, and _allowing_ the opponent to sell, they go from move to move, to move to move.


trust me, strong is overated



Combat Analyst said:


> Thing is Cena has already proven while he will go down as one of the GOAT, Richards no.


propaganda


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. *The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots* and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd.


Did you even watch the fucking match?


----------



## mjrox (Feb 18, 2008)

The whole shoots just a work.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Did you even watch the fucking match?


Yes I did, It had sensible spots. Not a guy getting fucking dropped head first into a table then getting up afterwards like nothing ever happened and then proceeding to pick up his opponent with ease and drop him headfirst on a ladder. 

I didn't say the match didn't have spots. I said it didn't have dumb spots. You nimwit.


----------



## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

PulseGlazer said:


> John Cena and Davey Richards are great comparison.
> 
> They both have annoying personality schticks. Cena with his childish retard bullshit, Richards with his intensity retard bullshit. Both are put in a position to perform fellatio after their matches to "send the crowd home happy" as if the announcers couldn't do that with a simple "thank you and see you next time" statement. Both (as well as their companies) are too fucking stubborn to evolve the Cena and Richards characters, instead doing the same old shit.
> 
> ...


Are you seriously suggesting that a man should spend less time doing charity work because you don't like him in the ring?


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

THECHAMPION said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that a man should spend less time doing charity work because you don't like him in the ring?


What else would I be suggesting?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the IWC of yesteryear use to complain about Flair dong the same act over and over. Likewise Austin. I knew when I was watching over the years 2002 and 2003 I found Austin quite fricking dull and repetitive and just wanted him off my screen. it's ostalgia that wanted him on.


----------



## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

THECHAMPION said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that a man should spend less time doing charity work because you don't like him in the ring?


what i dont like is that they use it to pretend that these overachivers are the ones who stormed Bin Ladens villa


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

I can't stand Richards, but I may check this shoot out of pure curiosity.

Anyways, I still can't believe people think Richards is in Cena's league. Cena is the better worker and it ain't even close.

Video relevant - http://www.tubechop.com/watch/451682


----------



## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Cena is one of this generation's most underrated wrestlers. I love how people complain "Cena sucks. All he does is take a beating for 20 minutes and then just powers up with his 5 moves" Fair enough, I agree. Nothing pisses me off more than a typical Cena match.
> 
> But at the same time there are the Cena matches that don't go like this and it's a good back and forth competition. Whenever a great match takes place involving Cena it's always somebody carried him. Cena can't do anything good. Whatever happened to, it takes two to have a match? God Cena haters are the most uneducated fans out there. *Then again, I bet 99% of all Cena haters are the anti-WWE rebels who support garbage promotions like ROH and garbage wrestlers like Richards, Strong, O'Reiley and the list goes on.*
> 
> I think the one match that really proved Cena's storytelling ability was his LMS mach with Umaga. Beautiful psychology. Fantastic match I think everyone should check out. That's how you worka LMS match. The simplicity of that match. They didn't need a bunch of dumb table spots and ladder spots and dual boots and dual super kicks and a fucking stabbing ending to get a reaction from the crowd. Oh and ROH fans kill me with the whole "Ring psychology is made up term" thing. Tell fucking Stu Hart ring psycholgy doesn't exist. And you know what's amazing too. If a mach is good in WWE and a ref bump takes place, the anti-WWE rebels are all over it. 2 ref bumps and a gazillion outside interferenes during Steen/Richards- "THIS IS AWESOME"




I'm sorry, but you watch the WWE and you think 99% of Cena haters are indie lovers? Do you watch the matches on mute or something? I've met way more people who hate Cena, many of which have no idea what TNA even is, then the other way around. I don't get why you have to spin everything into being anti-independent, I mean you're blatantly wrong with the line I just bold.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

PulseGlazer said:


> What else would I be suggesting?


Yeah, how can you suggest a man stops doing charity work for kids, with terminal illnesses. Wrestling fans just don't know how to balance out the real world and wrestling.


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> Yes I did, It had sensible spots. *Not a guy getting fucking dropped head first into a table then getting up afterwards like nothing ever happened* and then proceeding to pick up his opponent with ease and drop him headfirst on a ladder.
> 
> I didn't say the match didn't have spots. I said it didn't have dumb spots. You nimwit.


Dude, go back and watch the highlight video and tell me that Cena doesn't hulk up, on more than one occasion, and no sell everything. Tell me that the finish isn't the "stabbing [following a shooting]" that you referred to.

The reason why that match was fun, and got over, was _because_ it was a ludicrous, impausible, blood-soaked stuntfest, featuring two steroid freaks. You're completely misrepresenting the WWE's product. You sound like a delusional, viked-up ex-WWE midcarder on a shoot tape.



Violent By Design said:


> I'm sorry, but you watch the WWE and you think 99% of Cena haters are indie lovers? Do you watch the matches on mute or something? I've met way more people who hate Cena, many of which have no idea what TNA even is, then the other way around. I don't get why you have to spin everything into being anti-independent, I mean you're blatantly wrong with the line I just bold.


Exactly. Most people who think that John Cena fans are retards don't even watch wrestling regularly. It's a perfectly natural opinion to form, for any self-respecting adult. It's not as if its some snarky minority thing.



Combat Analyst said:


> Yeah, how can you suggest a man stops doing charity work for kids, with terminal illnesses. Wrestling fans just don't know how to balance out the real world and wrestling.


I think his point was that Cena's propaganda persona doesn't match with his adulterous, roid-filled, jock real-life personality. Kind of like Hogan and the Christianity and Nutropics thing. Most people don't warm to insincerity, in any art form. 

Perhaps this is why Davey ran into problems with some fans, once the NY crowd decided to turn him into a happy-go-lucky face. He's actually an enigmatic, masochistic cyborg. I'm sure he'd love to go back to being booked as one.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

Violent By Design said:


> I'm sorry, but you watch the WWE and you think 99% of Cena haters are indie lovers? Do you watch the matches on mute or something? I've met way more people who hate Cena, many of which have no idea what TNA even is, then the other way around. I don't get why you have to spin everything into being anti-independent, I mean you're blatantly wrong with the line I just bold.


Do you know what piped cheers are? Probably not...


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Combat Analyst said:


> Yeah, how can you suggest a man stops doing charity work for kids, with terminal illnesses. Wrestling fans just don't know how to balance out the real world and wrestling.


Whether he's a commendable humanitarian or a pathetic serial killer, I could care less. He will never be remembered as fondly as his predecessors until he uses that time to work on his opportunities.


----------



## Violent By Design (Feb 8, 2011)

dele said:


> Do you know what piped cheers are? Probably not...


They pipe in the boos for John Cena? I think you're going to lose this one.


----------



## Kincaid (Mar 31, 2011)

...The "Fake MMA" thing is still a talking point people are trying to put out there? You guys _seriously_ think Davey does fake MMA?

What do you think MMA looks like?


----------



## stryker360 (Nov 9, 2011)

you see one davey richards match, you've seen all matches of davey richards. he wants to talk about someone being original, maybe he should start with himself. I also agree that as a rule, i don't often listen to people who put "grownmenpretending" in their tweets, when i'm a wrestling fan.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Dude, go back and watch the highlight video and tell me that Cena doesn't hulk up, on more than one occasion, and no sell everything. Tell me that the finish isn't the "stabbing [following a shooting]" that you referred to.


A man wiser than me once said there's a difference between having a hope spot because it's time for the babyface comeback as compared to no-selling because it's time to get your shit in.

As for the latter, look at Kurt Angle as a glaring example. He doesn't "get it." Neither does Davey.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

asdf0501 said:


> v/s



What kinda bias BS is this? I hope you show Danielson no selling one of KENTA's head drops or Hero kicking out at one in random matches whenever there is question of who sells the best. Of Course that isn't acknowledging that you'll be hypocrite in the matter :kane While I never watched the Final Battle match(And most likely never will), I'm sure the people who cried over that spot didn't even get that there was actually a reason that happened. Richards follows up the Superplex with a Falcon Breaker(Falcon arrow into a Cross Armbreaker) and that happened in their last match. So in a last ditch effort, Edwards tries to reverse it to avoid the combo and they both end up getting sent to the floor where I'm pretty positive they sell what happened. I'm not a big fan of the spot myself but it actually has storytelling elements and reasoning behind it. But of course, "Richard d03zn't no wut dat is". If you want actual comparison of who sells better than try posting with both guys actually selling like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svKdE1ngqlA

If you want a more recent one then talk about Richards bomb ass selling when he had Elgin in the Ankle Lock after reversing the Crossface and how he looked like a corpse holding in a submission for a good while there. I still would pick Slater but I pick Slater and Ziggler's bump/selling over anyone in professional wrestling right now. 

As for this Cena/Richards bizness, I'd choose Cena simply because he changes his formula every now and then(Even though the amount of F-Us and Rock Bottoms or finishing moves that got used in the Main Event of Wrestlemania makes my head hurt). That being said, Richards 2009, 2010, and pre-August 2011 > Cena 2007. Ignoring character complaints or attitudes in general, both are two different wrestlers in two different styles/environments of wrestling. I wish people would notice this.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Dude, go back and watch the highlight video and tell me that Cena doesn't hulk up, on more than one occasion, and no sell everything. Tell me that the finish isn't the "stabbing [following a shooting]" that you referred to.
> 
> The reason why that match was fun, and got over, was _because_ it was a ludicrous, impausible, blood-soaked stuntfest, featuring two steroid freaks. You're completely misrepresenting the WWE's product. You sound like a delusional, viked-up ex-WWE midcarder on a shoot tape.
> 
> ...


From what I seen, Cena the person is the same as Cena on TV, and that's the primary reason he might not turn heel, but because I've never met him I can't comment on his personality.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Caponex75 said:


> What kinda bias BS is this? I hope you show Danielson no selling one of KENTA's head drops or Hero kicking out at one in random matches whenever there is question of who sells the best.


THIS. The funny thing here is Davey did the same fucking thing back at 2008, 2009 and 2010 and people here said he's THE BEST IN THE WORLD~!~!~! 


BTW you talked about this?
http://www.styleweekly.com/binary/641d/arts_culture3-1.jpg
I guess now they are gonna say it's overselling :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Walk-In said:


> A man wiser than me once said *there's a difference between having a hope spot because it's time for the babyface comeback as compared to no-selling because it's time to get your shit in.
> *
> As for the latter, look at Kurt Angle as a glaring example. He doesn't "get it." Neither does Davey.


Never seen you post on the forum before but I love you motherfucker! Well said.

The babyface comeback is one of the most important aspects of any pro wrestling. It needs to be timed right to garner that huge pop effect from the audience. I think it's harder to play the role of a babyface than a heel in a match simply because of the timing of a babyface comeback. I usually think the best psychology applied to a babyface comeback is to do it in short bursts but have the heel stop the momentum just as quickly as the face tries to gather up some momentum. Then all the babyface needs to do is find an opening, like blocking a top rope suplex or something then following up with a diving cross body.

Oh and I was googling some shit and I found out that RF video did a shoot with Jake Roberts addressing all these problems. It's a must see for all these talentless fucks on the indy circuit and all the brainwashed fans that think this is wrestling. Roberts addresses how to work the match as a bayface, heel, when to do a comeback, when to do a roll up and so much more. It's a must watch for both wrestlers and fans. I haven't seen it yet but after reading the description I know it's exactly what I'm looking for. Buy, torrent it I don't care. It's time wrestlers and wrestling fans understand the science behind this. 

I was watching Cole and Strong from ROH this past weekend. Terrible match. It's like whatever moves come to their head first they just hit it. Without putting any thought to it, they just do a move for the sake of doing it. Strong started off dropping Cole on his neck on the edge of the ring. He makes no use of it whatsoever later on. It was just done to garner a "Holy shit" chant. Later he drops him on on his back on the turnbuckle. He makes no use of it either. Instead he then goes for a gutbuster. These matches are nothing but spotfests. It's one high impact move after another with no purpose or reasoning behind it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh and kill me dead with the whole "Stop buying into WWE's shit". No WWE aren't the ones who boast about their awesome wrestling. As a matter of fact WWE refrains from the word wrestling and prefers the term sports-entertainment.

ROH and all the other indpendents on the other hand. They're the ones that constantly brag about how awesome their wrestling is. So sorry if I bought into ROH's hype but quickly realize they're full of a fucking shit.

Triple H recently did an interview in which they asked who from the independent scene the WWE is interested in. His response was that there is no one on the independent scene that has what they're looking for. A lot of stupid fans took that to mean that they're not 6 foot 5 240 pounds. No you fucking idiots they just can't fucking wrestle.

I think if WWE were searching the independents for 6 foot 5 240 pounds guys like Punk, Bryan, Rollins and so many others wouldn't have gotten signed.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

EmbassyForever said:


> THIS. The funny thing here is Davey did the same fucking thing back at 2008, 2009 and 2010 and people here said he's THE BEST IN THE WORLD~!~!~!
> 
> 
> BTW you talked about this?
> ...


This, I don't see the Richards hate, Years ago he was considered best in the world. No wonder Steen says you're all hypocrites.


----------



## wildpegasus (Feb 8, 2003)

stryker360 said:


> you see one davey richards match, you've seen all matches of davey richards. he wants to talk about someone being original, maybe he should start with himself. I also agree that as a rule, i don't often listen to people who put "grownmenpretending" in their tweets, when i'm a wrestling fan.


Part of a efficient work.


Davey's also had very postive quotes about pro wrestling on twitter which get looked over as this gets more attention.


----------



## flag sabbath (Jun 28, 2011)

Steen called ROH fans hypocrites in an attempt to make them boo him - it didn't work. 

Plenty of us never cared for Davey's nonsense.


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> Triple H recently did an interview in which they asked who from the independent scene the WWE is interested in. His response was that there is no one on the independent scene that has what they're looking for.


Then they signed about 75 million indy talents - everyone from Buggy Nova to PAC to Matt Taven and back again. 

You should try paying attention to things that have _actually happened_ and not to the hype.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Triple H recently did an interview in which they asked who from the independent scene the WWE is interested in. His response was that there is no one on the independent scene that has what they're looking for. A lot of stupid fans took that to mean that they're not 6 foot 5 240 pounds. No you fucking idiots they just can't fucking wrestle.


:shaq


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

flag sabbath said:


> Steen called ROH fans hypocrites in an attempt to make them boo him - it didn't work.
> 
> Plenty of us never cared for Davey's nonsense.


And plenty did.



Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Then they signed about 75 million indy talents - everyone from Buggy Nova to PAC to Matt Taven and back again.
> 
> You should try paying attention to things that have _actually happened_ and not to the hype.


This, And PAC is pretty much the defintiion of Indy Spot Monkey.


----------



## geraldinhio (Feb 5, 2010)

Combat Analyst said:


> And plenty did.
> 
> 
> 
> This, And PAC is pretty much the defintiion of Indy Spot Monkey.



I bet you have never seen a PAC match. Suprised you didn't make a thread asking "is he good" and "what's he like on the mic". Pac is far from a spot monkey , watch his matches and you'll find out. He couldn't be more opposite of the definition of an a Indy Spot Monkey.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Pac isn't Jack Evans. Just because he is a high flyer doesn't make him a automatic spot monkey.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

geraldinhio said:


> I bet you have never seen a PAC match. Suprised you didn't make a thread asking "is he good" and "what's he like on the mic". Pac is far from a spot monkey , watch his matches and you'll find out. He couldn't be more opposite of the definition of an a Indy Spot Monkey.


Oh because now because I have something to say aginst your Indy heroes, it's a problem. PAC barely has any non-high-flying moves of his offense. And doesn't he have a strong accent, doubt his mic skills are any good.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

geraldinhio said:


> I bet you have never seen a PAC match. Suprised you didn't make a thread asking "is he good" and "what's he like on the mic". Pac is far from a spot monkey , watch his matches and you'll find out. He couldn't be more opposite of the definition of an a Indy Spot Monkey.


I saw him wrestle for DG at Korakuen a few years ago. He's not a "spot monkey," but I would argue that if he couldn't do a corkscrew shooting star he'd be a lot less over.



Combat Analyst said:


> Oh because now because I have something to say aginst your Indy heroes, it's a problem. PAC barely has any non-high-flying moves of his offense. And doesn't he have a strong accent, doubt his mic skills are any good.


Wait, strong accent = bad mic skills? Damn, my head hurts from that logic.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Combat Analyst said:


> Oh because now because I have something to say aginst your Indy heroes, it's a problem. PAC barely has any non-high-flying moves of his offense. And doesn't he have a strong accent, doubt his mic skills are any good.


*Have you even watched a PAC match post 2007? The idea that PAC of all people relies on his high flying moves is really ignorant. 

Strong accent = bad mic skills? :kobe

Yeah it's strong but he's a decent promo. Not defending him as a great one and his Geordie accent will probably mean he won't talk much in WWE but you're making the assumption he's a bad promo because he has a strong accent you're not familiar with, which again is really ignorant.*


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I love when people think all high flyers are spot monkeys. It shows how little they know.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I love the idea that people with strong accents can't cut good promos. Wade Barrett never cut a good promo or anything.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *Have you even watched a PAC match post 2007? The idea that PAC of all people relies on his high flying moves is really ignorant.
> 
> Strong accent = bad mic skills? :kobe
> 
> Yeah it's strong but he's a decent promo. Not defending him as a great one and his Geordie accent will probably mean he won't talk much in WWE but you're making the assumption he's a bad promo because he has a strong accent you're not familiar with, which again is really ignorant.*





dele said:


> I saw him wrestle for DG at Korakuen a few years ago. He's not a "spot monkey," but I would argue that if he couldn't do a corkscrew shooting star he'd be a lot less over.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, strong accent = bad mic skills? Damn, my head hurts from that logic.


By strong I mean as in Del Rio strong accent.



JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I love when people think all high flyers are spot monkeys. It shows how little they know.


No, it's not all high-flyers. Don't find El Generico to be a spot monkey, or Low-Ki.


I'll have to admit though, Just saw him vs. Ricochet, It wasnt the full match, Just an MV and I have to say PAC isn't a spot monkey, He can certainly sell, and not just rely on spots, and can work a grounded style, so guess I'm wrong.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Remember when this section was full of great posters. :downing*



Combat Analyst said:


> By strong I mean as in Del Rio strong accent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I put that first bit above your post to make sure you didn't think it was directed at you. Now I'm telling you so you definitely know. You've gone from thinking PAC was someone who relied on spots to thinking he's a good seller based on a Music Video of a match between him and Ricochet? Maybe if you had watched the actual match I wouldn't be offended by your sudden change of mind after being called out on it by everyone, but you based your change of mind off a MV? I give up.

I have fuck all idea what Del Rio strong accent means or how it relates to what I said about PAC either. Bookmarking this thread for my ever eventual "Rise and Fall of the Other Wrestling Forum on Wrestling Forum.com"*


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Caponex75 said:


> I love the idea that people with strong accents can't cut good promos. Wade Barrett never cut a good promo or anything.


It's hilarious to watch some people dig themselves into a hole without anyone else having to say anything. :lol


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

I still like some of the posters here.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *Remember when this section was full of great posters. :downing*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean it's a pretty, good MV. Not necessarily having the match from start to finish, but you can clearly see that it was a good match.

Meaning there's a difference in having a strong accent, and having it compliment your promos, and still knowing what that person is saying then having a strong accent, that doesn't compliment the promo, and you don't know what they're saying.


----------



## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

Combat Analyst said:


> This, I don't see the Richards hate, Years ago he was considered best in the world. No wonder Steen says you're all hypocrites.


Steen is working an angle as part of his anti-ROH gimmick.

I doubt Steen actually thinks anyone is hypocrite because they don't like Davey Richards.

Also just because someone was good at something in the past doesn't mean they'll continue to be so. 

In 2003 I'd have wanted to sign Shaq if I were an NBA Team, now in 2012 I wouldn't. Does that make me a hypocrite?


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

THECHAMPION said:


> Steen is working an angle as part of his anti-ROH gimmick.
> 
> I doubt Steen actually thinks anyone is hypocrite because they don't like Davey Richards.
> 
> ...


Or maybe he does, We don't know his true thoughts

That's different, Shaq was past his prime, Davey just simply went from like 27 to 29, working the same style.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Lane said:


> I still like some of the posters here.


No offense, but you've only been here for a few months. I think Seabs is talking about before you, or even I, joined the site.


----------



## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

I don't know what Seabs talking about but the Other Forums used to be DEAD as hell. Now this is probably the most entertaining section on this site. With the creation of the Lucha thread,TCW thread,people now going into details on how they feel. More diversity


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

Theres still good posters here Seabs, its just most have avoided this mess of a thread.


----------



## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah most of us at one point has gone through the Richards vs. Cena/DAVEYINTESITY~! war and don't really want to do it again.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

I'm more on the side of not wanting to argue the Davey Richards argument because as is shown by the sheer quantity of pages to this thread, it goes absolutely no where.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

KingCrash said:


> Yeah most of us at one point has gone through the Richards vs. Cena/DAVEYINTESITY~! war and don't really want to do it again.


Where do you get your gifs, They're sick.


----------



## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Triple H recently did an interview in which they asked who from the independent scene the WWE is interested in. His response was that there is no one on the independent scene that has what they're looking for. A lot of stupid fans took that to mean that they're not 6 foot 5 240 pounds. No you fucking idiots they just can't fucking wrestle.


i'll keep that in mind for the next time WWe actually hires someone

and secondly, WWE clearly only hire some wrestlers just to keep them out of companies that may have a chance of catching up to WWe in the future

apart from discovering the secret to appealing to the world of today flaws and all wrestlers other than what the mainstream audiance is used to is creating thenotion of wrestling being more lik e sport is the only thing that might get traction that can also curb the negative inurshias wrestling has

to simply put, WWE are not the make all and be all of an industry they claim to be not in anymore, Triple H is just a company man and nothing more at this point



Combat Analyst said:


> From what I seen, Cena the person is the same as Cena on TV, and that's the primary reason he might not turn heel, but because I've never met him I can't comment on his personality.


this person you responded to here neglected to point out that Cena fans are only there for him, even if there was a show left to see that night they just walk out, yeah thats a great bunch of wrestling fans



Combat Analyst said:


> And plenty did.


Davey is still not as good as Bryan who until recent years wrestled the more traditional heel style for ASW under the masked guise: American Dragon, they were just hoping Davey is the one to replace Bryan for the indies after Davey vs KENTA


Combat Analyst said:


> This, And PAC is pretty much the defintiion of Indy Spot Monkey.


fair point, but a corkscrew is still better than holding a guy for ten minutes just for the sake of draggin it out, if less match time is what you need then dont have a match at all, its called a sit-in-studio people!



geraldinhio said:


> I bet you have never seen a PAC match. Suprised you didn't make a thread asking "is he good" and "what's he like on the mic". Pac is far from a spot monkey , watch his matches and you'll find out. He couldn't be more opposite of the definition of an a Indy Spot Monkey.


to be fair, i've still yet to see him put on a clinic



Caponex75 said:


> I love the idea that people with strong accents can't cut good promos. Wade Barrett never cut a good promo or anything.


"IM WADE BARRATT" on the universal scale thats all he ever was good at saying



smitlick said:


> I'm more on the side of not wanting to argue the Davey Richards argument because as is shown by the sheer quantity of pages to this thread, it goes absolutely no where.


he recently seems to want an early retirement so hes not worth the effort anymore

problem is who do we get to replace him as the best of the indies now?


----------



## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

Replace? 

He'll retire and Kevin Steen and El Generico can continue to be the two best guys on the indies.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

Seabs said:


> *Remember when this section was full of great posters. :downing*
> 
> Yup.





Lane said:


> I still like some of the posters here.


Sup?



Combat Analyst said:


> Where do you get your gifs, They're sick.


He makes them.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

dele said:


> Sup?
> 
> 
> 
> He makes them.


That's talent


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Seabs said:


> *Remember when this section was full of great posters. :downing*


Don't ban or drive them away.


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Seabs said:


> * Bookmarking this thread for my ever eventual "Rise and Fall of the Other Wrestling Forum on Wrestling Forum.com"*


Come on breh, It will make a comeback, we just need some time to regroup.


It's hard times


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE (Apr 30, 2012)

antoniomare007 said:


> Come on breh, It will make a comeback, we just need some time to regroup.
> 
> 
> It's hard times


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxC3oAD1iUg
THA'TH HARD TIMETH!


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

PulseGlazer said:


> Don't ban or drive them away.


superdupersonic got like, five chances. did you see what he got banned for? it was stupid, and his own fault (and also Neutronic's, but he's gone now, thank fucking christ).

also yeah I've been avoiding this thread because there's nothing good that can come out of me getting involved in it. sharkboy won't stop tilting at windmills, Combat Analyst won't learn how wrestling works, EmbassyForever won't stop being a moron.

but fuck it:

sharkboy, nobody thinks the things you rage about. maybe some mouth breathing idiots at ROH shows, but there's maybe three of them here (Until May, USAUSA1, and EmbassyForever) and nobody with a brain thinks they're worth talking to. let them like their shitty wrestling, maybe someday they'll learn. just talk about what you like, and wait until someone says something is good before you rant about how bad it is. nobody who gets any sort of respect here liked that Final Battle match. we don't need you to tell us it was bad. we know.

some of us are indy wrestling fans because we like some of the indy wrestlers who are good. that doesn't mean we think all indy wrestlers are good. but it does mean we have a problem with you dismissing a style based on what you've erroneously inferred from a handful of matches. when the indy style is good, it matches entertaining, athletic action with strong character performances and crowd engagement to create a wrestling product that, in the opinion of many, is unmatched elsewhere in the world.

and contrary to your belief, "psychology" in wrestling isn't a synonym for "selling and limb work". it's much closer to a synonym for "acting". what makes wrestling good, what made guys like Jerry Lawler and Ricky Steamboat and Toshiaki Kawada some of the greatest of all time, is character work. this can be something as simple as attacking a body part on a regular basis, or as complex and nuanced as, I don't know, anything Eddie Guerrero ever did.

wrestling is never about how many moves you do. there are wrestlers who do tons of moves who are fucking great, like Bryan Danielson, and there are wrestlers who do just a handful who are really shitty, like Nathan Jones. it's all about making what you do interesting. "too many moves" is not a valid complaint. "terrible to nonexistent acting" is a valid complaint, and it's why most of us hate Davey Richards.

if you bothered to read what people think, you'd look like less of a clueless moron who thinks he's smarter than everyone. smash your straw men all you want, nobody thinks better of you for it.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

jawbreaker said:


> sharkboy, nobody thinks the things you rage about. maybe some mouth breathing idiots at ROH shows, but there's maybe three of them here (Until May, USAUSA1, and EmbassyForever) and nobody with a brain thinks they're worth talking to. let them like their shitty wrestling, maybe someday they'll learn. just talk about what you like, and wait until someone says something is good before you rant about how bad it is. nobody who gets any sort of respect here liked that Final Battle match. we don't need you to tell us it was bad. we know.


Yo you are still here? i have no why the admin didn't banned you yet :yodawg

From what i heard from some guys who watched the interview Davey didn't said bad things about ROH (Except from what he said in the preview, of course). The ANX's shoot looks more interesting this one..


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Oh shit, I forgot Manu_Styles, that's four.


----------



## Combat Analyst (Aug 31, 2011)

EmbassyForever said:


> Yo you are still here? i have no why the admin didn't banned you yet :yodawg
> 
> From what i heard from some guys who watched the interview Davey didn't said bad things about ROH (Except from what he said in the preview, of course). The ANX's shoot looks more interesting this one..


This, jawbreaker pretty much just insults people.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Combat Analyst said:


> This, jawbreaker pretty much just insults people.


Eh, don't take him seriously. You know what they are saying about peoples who throw their anger at random guys on the net..


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

jawbreaker said:


> superdupersonic got like, five chances. did you see what he got banned for? it was stupid, and his own fault (and also Neutronic's, but he's gone now, thank fucking christ).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of them was a major contributor here right? It'd be like WWE suspending John Cena for being a backstage jerk to his colleagues.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

I don't understand how you could read that post and infer that I'm angry about something, but then I'm talking to two of the absolute worst posters in this section so I'll just stop responding and hope you two read the rest of my post and learn something rather than get offended because I was mean to you.



PulseGlazer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of them was a major contributor here right? It'd be like WWE suspending John Cena for being a backstage jerk to his colleagues.


It was something like his fifth suspension, and he'd pretty much stopped uploading media. I mean, if he'd quit being a dick for no reason, or at least come up with more clever methods of telling shitty posters they were shitty posters instead of sinking to their level, I'd like to have him back because he was a smart guy who usually knew what he was talking about, but why he got banned was his own fault, and I'm not someone who can undo it.


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Hmm, he did manage to get unbanned elsewhere (no idea how he got it done). Count me as someone (a friend of his) that demands it be undone here as well.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

He won't be getting unbanned and I wouldn't advise letting him use your account again either.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm watching the shoot right now. IDK it this is well known, but Davey said that for his first match for ROH Gabe had wanted him to beat Bryan Danielson for the title. He said he was glad he blew his knee out and that the plan didn't happen.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

Yep, Gabe mentioned it in a shoot a while ago.


----------



## ninetwentyfour (Apr 6, 2012)

Everyone should do themselves a favor and save the bandwidth/hd space on this shoot. Everything was given away in the trailer for the exception of 1 or 2 Steen bits. They never breakdown any subject and it's all very broad stuff that you'd know having heard any DR interview or by reading his Wikipedia.

EmbassyForever, stop hanging out at the ROHWorld Forum. He does bury ROH whenever the current regime comes up. Thing is it hardly comes up. The point to be made is that FAR more people will see the trailer than will see the actual shoot, so the damage is done.

The shoot told me two things... 1. He has some sort of mental issue (Bi-polar disorder perhaps?), and 2. He thinks pro wrestling is real.

It's actually quite sad in ways.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

He most definitely doesn't have Bipolar or hasn't shown any general symptoms of having it.

Other then that, I can't recommend buying/downloading the shoot. Its awkward and just bad in parts. Davey is convinced Wrestling is legit and seems to hate the business and the way it works. He seems to show understanding of how it works in parts especially when he mentions rejecting WWE/TNA but then in other parts where he puts across his hate at Steen winning the title because Steen isn't as fit as him.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

jawbreaker said:


> but fuck it:


You gotta utilize the ignore user feature, bruh. It's a breath of fresh air. (Y)


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Eh, i just watched it. Pretty boring shoot, only the name association was interesting imo..


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

smitlick said:


> He most definitely doesn't have Bipolar or hasn't shown any general symptoms of having it.
> 
> Other then that, I can't recommend buying/downloading the shoot. Its awkward and just bad in parts. *Davey is convinced Wrestling is legit and seems to hate the business and the way it works. He seems to show understanding of how it works in parts especially when he mentions rejecting WWE/TNA but then in other parts where he puts across his hate at Steen winning the title because Steen isn't as fit as him.*


Pretty much sums up like the last half hour of the shoot. He went kind of hard on Steen for someone he's supposedly friends with.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

He did the same to Roddy when he mentions that he can't get over as a heel


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

smitlick said:


> He did the same to Roddy when he mentions that he can't get over as a heel


Yeah, but he spent a lot more time criticizing Steen than he did with Roddy.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

This thread is fucking priceless. Full of morons and creeps.


----------



## THECHAMPION (Dec 24, 2009)

smitlick said:


> Yep, Gabe mentioned it in a shoot a while ago.


Did Gabe ever go into detail on why he thought this was a good idea?

I'd love to hear it.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels (Jul 18, 2011)

Just watched the shoot and it was rather boring. He seems to be a total mark for himself and has a bit of an ego.

But damn, why does he go so hard on Kevin Steen?


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

THECHAMPION said:


> Did Gabe ever go into detail on why he thought this was a good idea?
> 
> I'd love to hear it.


No not really.


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

Most of the controversial stuff was given away by the trailer.

Otherwise, it was an interesting shoot, in that Davey showed some business sense and didn't completely obliterate kayfabe over angles that have a current value.

That being said, I don't think his comments about Steen and Strong's weaknesses are wholly inaccurate. Steen, in particular, is a guy that needs a lot of window-dressing to hide his limitations. His knee injuries and weight problems have held back his performances for a while now. Plus, he's never bothered to define his look, which takes away from his overall presence. Then you have the issue of English not being his first language.

I think Davey was also spot on with the "shock rock" stuff. It doesn't have longevity and it goes against what made ROH great. Steen's current character is designed to pander to fans with shorter attention spans, that watch wrestling for sound-bytes and car crashes. For me, personally, that stopped being fun a few months before he won the belt. The over-exposure of Steen is one of the main of the reasons why I don't make the time to watch ROH much, anymore.

Ultimately; good booking, good opponents and cheap heat have been the biggest contributors to Steen's success.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

jawbreaker said:


> superdupersonic got like, five chances. did you see what he got banned for? it was stupid, and his own fault (and also Neutronic's, but he's gone now, thank fucking christ).
> 
> also yeah I've been avoiding this thread because there's nothing good that can come out of me getting involved in it. sharkboy won't stop tilting at windmills, Combat Analyst won't learn how wrestling works, EmbassyForever won't stop being a moron.
> 
> ...


Where's the feel like a cunt emoticon when you need it? I agree with you. I should spend more time reading posts in here rather than just bursting in once in every blue moon trying to act like some fucking know it all. It's glad to see that not everyone here is a fan of that style of wrestling. It's just that the entire ROH crowd seems to be a fan of it and it was wrong for me to assume that every ROH/indy fan is like that. That and I've formed that opinion based on the posts made by those nimbwits you called out in your posts.

I agree indy wrestling has good matches. You get no complains from me there. I don't go out of my way to watch it but once in a while I download a show or two. I may not like every match on the card. Heck, probably just one match on the card stands out for me but there are guys who put on good matches on the independent scene. You get argument from me.

Lastly, I agree 100% with your statement about how to work a match and I wasn't really trying to say that a guy who does less moves in a match is a better worker than a guy who does everything. What I was saying is what you're saying, it's what you do with it.

Hey, we got off the wrong first and I'm one who's not ashamed to bow my head out of humility and admit I was a dick. Sorry man. Sorry to everyone who got amigrane reading my ignorant posts.


----------



## alex shelley (Jul 1, 2008)

Surely if someone can illicit live responses from YouTube videos and blogs like Steen, that's better than killing yourself in the ring doing super stiff spots and blowing through finishers like it was the last wrestling show ever? That's what I didn't understand from Davey's shoot about his comparison of him to Steen. Completely missed the point of pro-wrestling. Bret would have a field day listening to this guy.


----------



## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyeWsDJablk&feature=player_embedded

Heel Davey is kind of entertaining.


----------



## Zatiel (Dec 6, 2010)

It's a disappointing shoot largely because he doesn't expand on things. The word-association at the end was pointless. Why not have a segment on how he disagrees with Cornette? How is KENTA different here and there? Did he think Strong sucked as a heel when he was chasing him for the belt?

The shoot interview environment doesn't really have a strong host who can wrestle better answers out of guests, but this really could have used one.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> Then you have the issue of English not being his first language.


As someone who didn't know this fact before I must admit I'm truly surprised to read that. He always seemed to carry himself fine either way so I'm wondering how much of an issue it really is. 



USAUSA1 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyeWsDJablk&feature=player_embedded
> 
> Heel Davey is kind of entertaining.


'Kind of' being a very loosely applied term. I would be lying if I didn't say I was intrigued by their future prospects/shenanigans, though.

Also lol'd at the top comment:


> Wrestling's most wanted? Pretty ironic considering you can't﻿ even get booked by ROH anymore.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Steen is from western Quebec, where the vast majority of the population is bilingual, so while technically French is probably his first language, he in all likelihood grew up speaking a good deal of English as well.


----------



## Zatiel (Dec 6, 2010)

jawbreaker said:


> Steen is from western Quebec, where the vast majority of the population is bilingual, so while technically French is probably his first language, he in all likelihood grew up speaking a good deal of English as well.


Actually he's done shoot interviews explaining he grew up in a French-only household and learned English from TV. He specifically credits Jim Ross's commentary for teaching him English.

Which makes him downright lovable, really.

But also, even if it was his fifth language, he speaks it fluently and can use any tone he wants. He's great at promos in English, so it not being his first language is hardly a factor.


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

MF83 said:


> Davey Richards is just the worst. Why hasn't he retired yet?


*I thought he was retiring this year? Not that I want him to but still...*


----------



## Radirgy (Feb 20, 2012)

Recently saw this on another forum and wasn't sure if people had posted it.


> http://rohworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1189
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An example of Kozina shooting, watch from 9:40 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPMp86PRrzU
Horrible.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

lol that was posted days ago on here.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Just read through this thread and it's fucking awful. Where did all these awful posters come from? I swear they all just turned up at the exact same time to try and ruin this section.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Just read through this thread and it's fucking awful. Where did all these awful posters come from? I swear they all just turned up at the exact same time to try and ruin this section.


Agreed. Seabs is an awful poster...


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

Yeah, Seabs is the absolute shit  joking of course.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

:kobe2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Seabs said:


> :kobe2


:harden


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

smitlick said:


> Agreed. Seabs is an awful poster...


:kanye2 Kanye West is amused at the thought.


----------



## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

Seabs said:


> :kobe2


Gotten t.........never mind. :side:


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

:gus


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

Holy shit at how obsessed Davey is with been an athlete.


The best part of the shoot was towards the end:



> I probably don't sell the way I think I should and I probably do throw too many kicks for their likings but I don't wrestle for them, I wrestle for me. And I like the way that I sell and I like how many kicks I throw and nothing is going to change. I'm not changing anything for anyone. If people don't like what I do, don't watch it, you know? There's bathroom brakes, hot dogs to be bought. Don't watch it.


At least he knows who he is as a wrestler. I'm fine with that. I just hope his hardcore fans finally realize why his style tends to annoy people and why it's not for everyone.


----------



## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

From PWInsider, Davey apologizes to Steen:



> “I want to publicly apologize for the comments I said in my shoot interview about Kevin Steen. I was very angry and bitter at some things that were said and done by him during my time as champion.
> 
> As different as me and Kevin are professionally, personally I hurt a friend and a very good person. Nonetheless, it’s no excuse and I want to apologize to Steen and his fans and wish him and ROH the very best.”


For a man who never apologizes and sticks to his guns he sure does a bit of it.


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

Its worded as if hes done with ROH


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

He supposedly is


----------



## smitlick (Jun 9, 2006)

Meltzer seems to think he'll be back in September/October for a feud with Kyle O'Reilly but that seems unlikely


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Davey is becoming a trainwreck and he's starting to burn bridges slowly but surely.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Pretty soon I'm" betting he's only going to be working New Japan if not retiring altogether. It's a shame, dude has immense talent but I don't think he's good at taking criticism he's been a pro athlete all his life so he's used to being a winner and respected. I will say that nothing he does at this point will stop the hate train, which in hindsight is probably why he's doing the whole WMW thing to begin with.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Pretty soon I'm" betting he's only going to be working New Japan *if not retiring altogether.* It's a shame, dude has immense talent but I don't think he's good at taking criticism he's been a pro athlete all his life so he's used to being a winner and respected. I will say that nothing he does at this point will stop the hate train, which in hindsight is probably why he's doing the whole WMW thing to begin with.


He said he's retiring.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*New Japan have cut him and even NOAH ended up turning him down. If ROH don't bring him back then they're both screwed.*


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Davey is pretty much fucked then apart from some small indies that will book him.

Haven't followed anything ROH related since BITW, so why have him and ROH parted ways?


----------



## Lane (Dec 28, 2011)

The story.
He just wanted time away

What I think
Hes butt hurt he dropped the title to Steen so he left.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Btw, I forgot to comment the Davey's quote Antonio posted:


> I probably don't sell the way I think I should and I probably do throw too many kicks for their likings but I don't wrestle for them, I wrestle for me. And I like the way that I sell and I like how many kicks I throw and nothing is going to change. I'm not changing anything for anyone. If people don't like what I do, don't watch it, you know? There's bathroom brakes, hot dogs to be bought. Don't watch it.


What a stupid thing to say. This basically means he doesn't give a shit about fans paying to see him. I've lost almost all respect for Richards.


----------



## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

Still think Davey will come back to ROH after DBD (since they've already done the tapings up to it) to at least put O'Reilly over and considering he's flip-flopped about retirement until he's gone everywhere I won't believe him.


----------



## Neathe (Oct 10, 2011)

I think Davey will be brought back and the wolves will reform.


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## xzeppelinfootx (May 7, 2006)

This shoot was quite hard to watch at times honestly. Pretty warped point of view on wrestling in general but aside from that... Most interesting part or atleast the one that sticks out to me is Richards saying Steen was so blown up/dead at border wars that at one point he had told him to just end it. Also I look forward to when davey finally snaps on someone in the ring cause that boy is a tickin time bomb.


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## USAUSA1 (Sep 17, 2006)

Davey Richards coming back to ROH and being the heel/bad guy he is right now would probably be the most entertaining thing in WRESTLING(not just ROH,Indies but wrestling). For example, Bully Ray became Bully Ray because of his reputation,now fans think he is the most entertaining thing in TNA. JBL becoming the corporate country type wrestler got him over because he was being himself.


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## KingCrash (Jul 6, 2007)

Well it's be more natural for him but you'd still have to deal with the O'Reilly/Davey feud and figure out what you wanted to do there. And I can't remember if anyone posted this but:


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## jpchicago23 (Jun 16, 2010)

Davey Richards was never great he was just good. When Danielson left the indies most people proclaimed him the next indy all star super worker and he's just not that guy. He wrestles with little to no story and just tries to fit as many mma spots into a match as possible. Most of his matches are carbon copies of each other and he has zero charisma about him. People have said the fits that Dynamite,Benoit,Danielson mold and i say those comments are the effect of bath salts. I'm not bashing him completely i just think hes a decent wrestler and not this great indy legend that i think he has believed he has become. Talk about a guy that drinks his own kool aid


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## ShimmerFan (Apr 16, 2011)

Jim Cornette was outdated even in 1994.


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